The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1810-06-07 00:00:00

ro-sionuow

1119 E whrdr or the ',flurry will begin mud fiui.b
L ersuutt. RICHARDSON, GOODIXCIi, and CO.
isyeelfellp saforus the Publar, that tlulr will row.
:Nue upee, for the sale of Tteketa au,' Mauves, uutil Tweire
'deck This NoKht.

...o.sionovr THE STATE LtYTTEItt WILL
BE DRAWN. •
HODGES, PAIN F., and CO. Hrock.Broltaers.
140, Oxford•cireet, awl 44, St. Jawsees-street,
inform the Public, dial the Tickets sal !ill.. .1
present Grand I.4Stery, in be drawn TO-Molt-
I', are or mak, in snot satiety, at their OlS•rs, and
be tease, most particularly, to solicit their al trntiuti to
;Samar, which, in addition to Twu Hundred Thousand
l 000& is Hooey Mom gives Four Extra tknefiii ut One
Ileadred Tickets sorb ; therefore. a single Ticket may gain
ino,oout. a Half sii,noril. a Quarter 4..; WA. au Light's
I 45091. art eve. a Sutleollh upwards dr 0;0061.
_ _ _

N B. Sthesaes d largeenitio, with s li•st of Capital Prins
tv.eatly solif rt the alwrea olllres.

vy TUN, late Partner with the dreri-ert Silt J.
.1:41 BIAPISCONIII, has Ilse pleasure tit anuounr tog In kis
Fricatla aid the Public, the Lottery arkieh Ttl-Stolt-
ktlll/, itives Nse erenteit chance to the adventurer for so
moan • risk: Four yythris of Tickets. too in each packet.
are td Lee given by thy (:untracturs to the Fa'una'e bolder'
.4 as destobaten nil,. abuse tal wheal &Ticket way gess
*pear& td I uo,nu,tl. and hares ha proptiet inn
ktits has been truly lucky is vellum packets of Tickets,
No ;out, prodeetug nearly sonsul.; sod N.. 3,0 I el, pro/ae-
tut 14,7611. trait awn to Nitres, Sixteenths. sod paid by kilo
to the napirtsee Lultleva, plea rye-carol gm each diateeutb
I,:mt 16.

[loos sw.c.is • cootiosaaeo of 1b puddle (mars, at his
lacks ui. e •
5, Rear tho MANSION HOUSE.

RitANSCOMB 'pod Co. nit lo their noun! great
sarcoma, sold ia t►e
LaM Witty, is 100 Skov. In the preceding Lottery
Na 3,734 .. ..... L. 111,,,,,i) No. it,Sta
L.assosoo
4 ds4. ..... ... C,01141 3+43 l,OOO
I 41( L:001 fa Is ... 2.300 3of Lana etch.. 1,300
Bo Arabs/on orf almost way Capital ilsirrks i sod in list
yes, mob, sit uf guoisooL sod Capitals to Ike .wseat of
a .0,..00t. breaks the UM 3n,ssoooL tha last 23,31101,1,354 the ma y
49,0..“1. etc, /hared; and it precious years, to in amount
Islood all pr...ctlest ; are sow sentog MIL ET% and
SLUES is Lit. N EW LOTTERY, to be shawls TO- MOS.
lOW, is which there are four e >•'ra tic.sodl Prizes of Our
Hundred Tale.. rub, whirls owsy prudes= to a Ticket
le ..1,04,1 nod to a Siztenstis lei .o ants of Dm it.
'':: ANit.l /NI B .1 ,J CO ..,win guar.' the public against
litc.kerptins set Cii ll§ of skew dear and claims of Ike sale
of tbr lint sad Wit of esti 0 Grua! Prize• a., gists s the (art
wocrry bis.Wessili was went, sad the fortes ose a4sestaters
tart+ nr.irti 1,5471. lib- dd. at thaw Old mid tiii:y (hikes is
1.• roka, vti

377, egnatii. Ne. ii. Ilnlhere.
No. Hsy,,a,YN J Aud Nu. 24.4 fitt'sna.
Tirl •:11 never falsely sword dry dil'i.bd • Capital o hie%
irof nr4 ahoeisteh 'hated and Sold to 'Fe po,dir 'W..,

V.ILUAtIIX LISHARY•
TO BE Rl' .11A TioN,
IN 'NIP. I.HIIISTIE.
Al kis Ilaeot lt•timm lo Pall Mail. in * feo
it /ii sl.llPf Nod • r %. AIX A II.E Li-
ARAN! of 'woks. cousisiius fly of Ili•toitY.
f;n.ne, 110.1 I.n;'‘.ll ite:ties, the prop rt, of a f ;Pa-
.•anas deco a. 41. aAd 13. "1.014 teem t.t. lite nen& nee, near
k•... Atti,os; Ike elt ell be fumed. the Gratle-
r••••ll•tasiur,.P..ttorml Mate of Lamm, Cailot
llogoe%'• Re.t.ottia Kent. Mortou.•
Bayk Dietino.o y. At istnrit.int • has •
Iletob4u% &Zola and St. plisni Thesaurus la.l.lrOt fine-
,r.sith the Armadillo twill. Madly Mae culla.. sod to good.

THE MANEHiIiN•H"I."I-
- Alwiati'ale of voill•ittmlit iN.I H0ur.1..1.1
Furui-
sair, seovrtil capital M4hogan four-iond Hods:4.44p, with.
clog2.lt Hangmita, hn mime restlacr Beds, Browsels, Tor-
kr). and Eiddiarnsio.vrt Carpets; stye. sl M.,loogaol Sle-
nab Pedestal, Cold, Peoultruke, and Sofa Tables,

TO RE SOLD [11" Arcricor,
n 7 Mos.,* COUNTIE and co.
THIS DAY. Jinie 7, and knowing nay. lit l'n.clArk•
A tiouT I.nts I'ItINI E Fl: It
•L otessry deseriplioa and orate Mat quality. being the
pl.thic proper), ofJohu Talbot, by ord, r of 'the Creditors,
thr 'herniae", No. Yo, Wollorook, near Budze•r rout-
Wiring Bravo Is sod real Terkry enrivet,, r.f l thort.tsioo.,
uiretary sad liatik•esees, tomato& and other drawer?, lurk Risme& sod mirrors, wane rich paintinp and prints, etch lea
and coffee arts °retries, Cashiucable inaho,ran, eb.stra, with
stead ehtto to snatch, nialingway double screwed 4 post bed-
s • &di ticb hers;er., made in the present st) le: prone
holdinc, het and mile, bedsteads, basin stands, knife caws.
Vris
t.e. ledraks, a patent sof., heilitraid, a chair. deur. chinos
I"nikkeeke tables r,f the best quality, japanned chat'',
•
whole of the ishmre will b. sold without reserve, being
ttv po..tive orders of t At Proprietor,.
Li ICI
tasteses es the Prelatic's awl of the Auctioneer, Derr

Upon the Order of the Day being read,
The Earl of DotiouGitwimE spoke to the fol-
lowing effect My Lents, it is with unailliagnets
1 present myself to your notice, as the advocate of
the Catholic Claims, arising from • considente
holt of the abitities of that person who has so free
fluently urged the justice of their cause before yetir
Lordships. It is a subject which has been an re-
peatedly discussed—the grenade of argument have
been so often alleged, that it is almost importable
for tne to state any thing Dew, when the questing
itself hai lost the grace of its wonted novelty.
Net, my Lords, froth any &tire of my own,
bit from a consideration of those whose claims
•I rePreVu'r 1. have been indneed to briug ties.
abject under your consideration. But after
the written statement of a Noble Baron (Lord
Grenville), who at all tunes hi herbs, was the
strenuous champion of the Catholic ()tiestion, end the line of conduct which he has
thought it right to pursue, my unerillingneva thus
to 'tied receded was considerably increased. Still.
being the oldest Peer. excepting that Nubleß.iroli
to whom I have 'nutted, who has unceasingly op-
pitted the Catholic injuries, and endeavoured to
vindicate their rights and jitst privileges.- I was
called upon to piece myself- in this difficult situa-
tion. In addition to those unpleasant eircuinstinces,
I have stated, there have enseis others of a different
de.criptinti, since their petitions were last discussed
before this Hasse—i mean the declared refusal of
the petitioners themselves, to admit any Protestant
power ofsepromacy oser the Irish Catholic Church.
It is not. therefore. me Lords, without reluctance.
I labour ler the difficulty of the task which I
tiff obliged to encounter, from ft consideration of
duty. 11',oti the earliest period eir my Parliiineistary
life, indeed, at the very cominencetueut of what
considered the discharge of my public duty? I re-
deevoured to free the Irish Hellion Catirelic froa,
thus eielterions mil disabilities. which enjostly
deprive loin of his rights; and I coutieee to main-
tain the justice of this cause. Whether this be I
fit time, and whether some •will not be reedy to
raise objections, on the grounder this being a time
by no means seasonable Orr the reception of these
pet Lions. I will not venture to determine; but this
le the time selectel by the eetitioaers theitaelves;
they think it would conduce to the inonetion of
their cause now to agitate their claims; end,
oat the advice of any Parliamentary Cretreerllor,
they nattiest to be heard.; 'end. thirtrire;Aff Orr
fault an attach to the present occasion, as befog
unseasonable and inexpediese. that is the peti-
tioners', faith. and not mine. The letter. which was
lately puteithed by the Noble limn. the. reason
of whosealreenc e tla is day is not only lamented by foe.
but must be the cause of general regret. stases such
sentiments, and has produced that undemanding
en the hart of them who bad ever courted& he was
the r invariable defender. as to make me. 8.1.1 every
friend of reconciliation. feel greatly concerned ; and
the more in, since another Noble Earl (Grey), who,
on till former occasious. strenuously maims sued the
justice of this cause.. took au opportninty of de-
elating before your Lordships, *bet he willwefibea
to every pert and priaciple of that epistle. The
conduct of those. Noble Lords. no all discussions
of then :name ; the sentience, which they invari-
ably prefersed, cod the part they took dur-
tug the time of their preatiliiig 1n the Government,
pirtieularly demande I a more open extessiii 4444 of
their epi liens ; in order that the Irish Catholics,
who Ltd res long enjoyed their talents in their
calm', might kilos, how to segulete their mea•urea;
and the people, who must ever consider their ad-
vice as the best assists nee of the rowitry, might
be serairited with the conclusions of their cape-
rafted understandings. When your Lordships re.
fleet, I am persuaded you will bud sonic difficulty
in espial:wig the line of conduct pursued by
both the Noble Lents I have ruelitioned. but
more purticularly that of the Noble Baron.—
In proceeding to discuss the merits of this question.
it is with considerable difficulty I collect those ar-
guments uliteh will in any way strikingly presaut
the jn.tiee of the* claims which I *ball laws hold
the entholics of Ireland will always 'peseta upon
the Guvernin, id of this country. 1 must always
assert they hive an undisputable right to the War-
-I.es mil privileges enjoyed by His Majesty's p,o-
tts.asit subject.. ; mad the two statues which have
been often refreed to—l mean the Bill of Rights
and the Act of Settlement—furuish grounds fur Noe
truth of this ewe-rhos. I will call visor attention
first to the Irnb and eith William 111. conutioely
called the Act of Settlennee, though the last in
poiut of time. If your Lerdsliger read that sta-
tute. it will be very evident glint our ancestor% in
framing those laws which were to secure the Pro-
testant tint•cession, and to establish the Constitution
upon the most durahle basis dud not think it ne-
cessary to view the Catholielteli.4ian with the jea-
lonsc of inteleria times ; and, although they ex-
cluded aliens from pliers in the State. and from
seats in Parliament. they appear not to have
thought it essential to our cowtstutional seraiity to
eatertain wary alarm on ace tof Catholics being
freed from a declaration of similar restrictions.—..
Neither will yoer Lordships find, in the Bill of
nigh's. any careful attention to the exellision of
the Cielioiies from the offices of Stair, or from
seats in the Legislature. At this period we date
the establishment of onr Protcataiit Succession. and
the security of our most valeiable rields; and yet
it does not appear that the disabilities of Csibtall:cs,
so much pressed as relstlary to our Cunditution

these days, were considered as a part of those laws
our ancestors framed for the preservation of the
Government. Psobohly some may dia;.ute that
any regulations, against the danger of admitting
any particular class of men td fill situations of
power and. tnist in the State, did not form a
subject for their consideration. Bat in the Act
of William it is expressly ken IMO, that uo .ilea
shall not in either' House of Parbinsent, or fill
any office under, este Crown; therefore, by just
inference Pot' that statute, I am entitled to draw
three cosiclitsions--thst• our ancestors took, into
consideration at that time the danger of tutro.
ducting certain descriptions of prisons iuto the
State, that they did ccrisepientlY exclude a cer-
tain class (mom that privilege; but that Catholics
were not mimed in their exceptions as persons sub-
ject to their inspicion or apprehension. Theo.
I call upon those to shah by argannot what is
there in the Conatitntiots, which is inconsistent with
the rights of the Cathisfica ? The Coustitaiion, so
established at n priod when Englishmen were tee*
sessions for their liberties and their preservation,
not-inimical to the classai of the* petitioners ?
Whatever was then established. and whatever up-
' pertaiued to the seine by law, the Catholics have
no wish to change; thew are anxious to maisitam
inviolate the Protestant Sticee.skti. There are, nay
Lords, three principles, wiii:h, from liiBll,2aild by
the Act of Settlement, ought to actuate the breast
• Hr
the is
C hoimuitatiid-
of every Sovereign in this country.
to regard the liberties of the sitivet,
tution. and the maintenauce (Attie chur,.l), as rat.•.
blished by ha.. Then; can it he asserted, will any
Noble Lords argue. if there are any such, that the
Catholics of Ireland, in asserting.their to a
participation of British rights and liberties, should
be disposed to overthrow the freedom, the Conti.
tntion, or the church of this Country ? Let tho.e,
my Lords, who oppose these claims for
'hew o.w justifying objections, one pretext
plausible plea for the continuance of these puns
and penalties. exclusions and dita'filities.—There
is no occasion to refute the sophistry which has
been advanced by those who defend this system
of restriction, that the qnalifications of the Catho-
lics disable them from tilling places of trust and
' responsibility. I would direct the attention of your
Lordsnips, to the history of this, and most or the
notions of Europe. No ow. I think, would seri-
. ousiy ;eolithe to pronounce a Catholic unqualified,
bec.sose of file par' icular bettor. What, my Lords,
writ the transactions of former times, when they
proudly maintained the hangar and glory of Carat
Britain ? Di i the great Gensrals of the Continent
fail in their valour or success, when they fungi!
tinier Protestaiit Princes ? Can it be said. toy
Loads. that such heroes as Save. Turenne.
yid other Gallic Commands:no, could have done
more than they accomplished ? Did the Catholics
not accomplish the highest deeds of valour. and
..wmath.ahoisaiolsts or glory. under a Pentesistst-M—
-ouch ; but who ever hear,' that eircuinstato a
proved soy incitement to the neglect of their ditty ?
Coustlendde stress has lately-hero laid upon the
propriety of the cleroy iu holisml making that ton-
t-moon which would .garret against the influence
of the Roman Pontiff. particolarly at 11* pres-nt
pi trio! of kurepean atfoirs. Whatever may be the
ate/it of that cowgirls-raj-on, I think, we have tio
right to impose upon them such a cuinresArn, as the
ergo, because. it would Ise inconsisteut with their
first articles of religious faith. As lung as the Ca-
tholic religion exists, its followers can never assent
to the Protestant Supremacy over the Catholic
Church. At the same tone, I shall ever iii-avow
the ag, tit of the Petitioners, or the charge
d'affetares of any class of nolividlials. I come tot ward
of my own accord, 1 speak the language of my
own wataments. I think it would be unjust to place
the Catholic Supremacy inn Protestant Sloven.
anent. But j am not authorised by them to darts
or propose soy commutation of what they consider
their inalienable rights. It has been urged, that
there are conscientious scruples in the way of the
iwtstioisers, sod cansiderin,:the source from whence
they flow, it has been ita,tuated they are insur-
mousitable. But I am authtni,ed, constitutionollw.
to say. that we emote of no act, except it be subject
F to oiluisterial respoissibdity.—ethor, gees, kw.)
Perhaps t how' scruples, so professed. are not the sent-
plea of theßing. but those of the ad Linistration.
hirer ! leer!) It has been suggested, that the Coro.
Itittloll 0 it h is concerned With* discussion; but will
any Noble lewd rentoretoaffirm the Intentional pur-
poses of thatinjaaction wood if. t:.e I, .ist boaffeeted
by routs-ding to the Catholic- timer claims which
they now press upon the attest!;On of Put :tament ?
Did not William, only a few muntissaiter taking this
sacred promise, extend to one part of the United
Empire. that they should be freed from the main.
1.-natter of the church establishment, and be per-
mitted to enjoy their own faith. the Presbyteries
botitistson ? Does any otse doubt of the inviols.
boo of she Coronation Oath ? Has not a certain
period of Pins Majesty's reign, from 177 e to 1793,
been a course of motioned concession to the Ca.
tholic subjects of Ireland ? Those who seem di..
posed to obviate foe petitioners iii their claims,
have laid down three very broad and strong pow-
bons, which require a degree of ingenuity to again-
trio their ity. They aotert the Pontiff of
Rome at present holds jurisdiction in the appoint-
ment of the Catholic Clergy of Ireland. that the
Clergy compose the Hierarchy, and that the pope.
lotion of the country are directed by the influence
of the Catholic Clergy, With respect to the first
of these positions, which is extremely btoad, and
ought tint to be credited without foundation. I am
not iesclined to give et my direct negative ; bet with
regard to the other assertions. I eaa speak from me
Gan knowledge. amid froth the information of others,
on who** ttillgn.n.v 1 eau depend for seciinicy, that
the influence ascribed to the Catholic Clergy in
Ireland has, for some line, been upon the decline.
Lulea& ouch is my opinion of the authority fe-
ll Posed is the Clergy, that I have no Lesitatioa :in

oliYlagt from experience. (having had occinessiste
solicit the assistance of the lye ;14 orskWe
seine Buses in Ireland), that such tut 15a1i046014. 14
of realbenefit to the meow; Ind. as, (mod to
'it. welfini.yi sin etireniely sorry that the Catholic
has so much declined as to feria scaice.
any check upon the tranoict#oses of the. people.
I cannot but entreat rine Lordships to rttlect upon
the justice 6f these claim., iishich ore 'censisiest
with the prosperity of the State. It ta
to oppose theta without being justly implicated
in the charge of oppression. (Hear, hear.) It
only • remains, my Lords, far we to conclodei
That the Petitiosi of the Irish Catholics, ut genie.
rel, with the other petitions'; fro at tl,e Irish Catho-
lics. he referred to a Committee of the whet&
Haute.' I mud. however. not permit this oppor.
tuoity to pus by, oitliout declaring. that I haire
cautiously abstained from kointnentang upon the
attires of the I.:h.:tisk Cathaticai IVisatever diffea
rester may mist batmen them sod -their hrethrim
itt Ireland, i shall ever entb.ace a period like this
present, to boar tpktimouy to the high esteem Ism-
tertain for their steady and distioguistied
inai&wir poweriel-enpportat-ell times,. of The Coe
vcrgitsgent and the Coostitittion of the Coautry." •
The Eta: of CLANCAItT must admit, he could
not withhold his concurrence from Peters' of the
sentiments expressed by the Noble Earl. But, at-
the same time, he did extmet the Irish Catholics
would have manifested a different diepneitiou from
that a hieh he had feat/011bl suppose they entedained.
from what fell from the Noble Enrl, an,. had advo-
cated the meritaif thea cause. It became them to
profess a greater readiness for reconciliation, but he
was sorry they should hare so far relinquished a pro-
priety of conduct. as they certainly did, by author,..
trig a Noble Baron (Grenville) in that House, and
another of their advocates in soothes, place, to 'no-
wise a check upon the conduct of their Iterarchys
and then they chselatuted the concesicou which they
had previously made. The persona whom they
had selected among themselves on this occaSuse,
did not e.' ,fie a dispositiou to recoocillatioo. Such
ass theitalleeion of Dr. Milner. who /rid certainly
communtated to the Noble Baron the inteutio• ..1

the Catholics to grant this coot-06.4m of the veto.
But, afterward., he had declared it was contrary
to the wishes of die Catholics; and he wookl klina r
lose the last drop of his Wood, than submit to this
concession. This conduct "hewed him a very ea- •
tit man for the office to which the Catisolinstoot
ajeroioted Win. sod did uo credit to them for dose
sAection. Certain resolutions Of the Cstholics
been referred to as indicating that they carte '1•• •
verse from the exercise of the imputed power of the .
Pope. But whatever might be said of. the thrwy •
'of their professions, each was the d.sciplii,e of the
Catholic Church, that it would be inconsistent
with their practice. At Ballystiausion. a Cat'sul c
chapel had been erected by the Protestant!, the
Preenyteeians.- alstl. ilia Zadlialeuh • Qei altati? ..
shoemaker, particularly complained .0( pnrtio•s
of it tieing allotted to the, rich Catholic's, and,
being of that belief himself, he tx?ressed his
loud disapprobation in the chapel. for ankh he
was escominuoicated. and was iu danger of perish.
ing fur want of breed, bet was afterwards advised
to tiring an action aoinst the Bishop. He di.'
so, and recovered damages. The Noble Earl caa-
clude4. by expreesiiiir -hie opposition to the.
Lord Fasetee could see nothing' in the
arge.
melds of the Noble Lord who precedes! him, *loth
went against their going into the Committee. Hal
the question been. whether they *holdall ger tit the
Cethrilies the privileges they claimed? there would
have been •onie *eight his reasoing.; hut it was
inure fit for the Committee, than applicable to the
question now before their Lerdships for going into
it. Were the question proposed to be the graotieg
of full rights to the Catholics, he would be ch,
cidedly against it, but it was not so; it was whether
they, as the Supreme Legisleture of the laud, on
the appeal made to them by four millions of their
fellow satinets, should take that appeal into their
comideratioe, or indiguautly reject it ?—(Neer!
Ifeet!)—ln his opinion it was a duty they awed to
the tatholies. and to the country, not to treat
them in this harsh manner; and sure he was, if
prudence were to enter into their contempletion,
that the perilous nature of the present times de-
manded a very difft rent course. For himself,
situ-
eated in Protestant principles, he confewoll be had
strung prejudices (they right be called) to over-
come on the subject of these churns, and a repue-
' mince to rioting them ; hut theyowere i.ot now to-
' quiring whether the Renton Catholic religion was
good or bad iu its tendency, but as it did esist, whet
was best to be done with those who professtd it.—
The letter of the Noble Baron whose perseuce their
Lordships had that night to regret (Lord Grenville)
to Lord Fingal, set this matter iu tie clearest and
most luminous point of views. It was conclusive on
the subject. and he agreed with eyrie part uf
Indeed it was scarcely possible, not fully to accord
with what was so honourable to its •noble author,
as the production of as honest man sod great
statesinam—The argnments adduced against the
peed superstitions had nothing to do with the et.
jections to the Oatholic Claims. for the Catholic
faith was one thing and the papal superstitioot
another totally different.—/ Ileer !)—As for the
resolatione read in part by the Noble Lard who
spoke lest. he would go a little further and inquire
what principles they generally laid dowse ? and it
would be seen that they did not uphold tha doctrine
(alleged by the Noble Lord they supported) of
alluding the interference of the Pope in thra
temporal gorernineut.—[Here .Lard Erskine rind
many extracts frosts the paper which, he held
its his hand.] Ft..ux these. he niimit•ined. sf
, was prayed, that persons professing the Roman
Cairo* Religion. were as true 111 their elle.
guinea. as men of any other clam, and ought to tie
equally trusted ran their oaths, as any other of llos
Majesty's subjects. They also spewed, that :t aas
their determination, ifAte Pope died a pristatti, to

k ire
31„.
H'a
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qpLENDID GAL,
11.u4 3 ' 'TY's BIRTH-DAY,
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His Grielielti, Miss Rolla
of )Ir. Brab.am, —'• GOSII
Id.rut 1a .ehattki•e Rawl, Mr.
• Particulars
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CA ITAL LJ GE
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lb, I I osend time public to
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true 0.11164 per lit
TO-
fa rytHE whrOe of the
&saint. RICHAF
resprethilly hiforin the
Inoue apes, tor the saic ul
o'cleek This Night.
TO-SIORROW THE
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ri "TOMES, PAI)
149, Osford.siree
at oprolally talons' the Publ
is .
the present Grand lea
ROW, are ea mak, iff et
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r- Paands is Mitsui shims,

.
enlint the Stet Sudo% in spite of any nthnivatiou,
us they lied it cosnpletely proved to them, that
e election of -his successor was free and .icon.
:lined. Thus, even es their spiritual head, they
would reject the Seecreige Pontiff, were he to be
appointed by the enemy. of their country. The
woe declaratory of theirdesire to meet
their Proteerantbrethres in die spirit of conciliation,
and that the whole of their thins was for the inte-
grity of their Church, and the freedom-of its ai,.
copilot. It was in these points of view that the re-
solutions appeared to him; and he could by no
mean. agree in the deductions drawn hum them by
the Noble Lord (Clancarty). Neither could he coil-
cur With that Noble Lend, 1a asking, beforehand,
what was to be doue in the Committee? or in think-
ing that mottling could -be. done. lie would not
enter into hargsuis or barterings with the Irish Ca-
tholics; tat, without that, he was prepared to go
into the Committee, and give them all that a liberal
policy would suggest. (Hear, hear.) This ass the
line of conduct most consistent with their Liodships
dignified swim', end the mist consonant to equity
and jn.uce. For, suppose a private person Caine to
him from the country, with a claim to cone right
on Inifarrn or estate, of which be alleged he was
deprived, and asked him in the most proper man-
ner to take the matter into his comoderation; would
he do well to hid Inns get out of his house—that he
- believed he would rob it if he could, that he would
stand ca his own claims, and desire him to do the
•taine ? He earnestly recommemled to their Lord-
'ships thee, not to act in this way, but consent to
the appointinent of a Committee, to hear all that
could be said on the claims of the Catholics. If
the cz-e was so strong in the analogy of a private
bushiess, which he had taken the liberty to state,
-what must it be in the important concerns of a great
• empire ?---Nfore important now than at soy former
'period I Much more vitally interesting than when
Mr. Burke. a known friend to his country, apd one
of its brightest ornittuents. wrote his celebrated let.
ter, so forcibly recommending to the Govertimeut
of the day, nut to uarrow the basis of their strength,
by keeping three mallow, of the population of the
country disfranchised mid shut out from the cow.
TOGS enjoyment of the Coustoution ! It, at thht
period, a cordial unioli was SO de+lnible• how much
suwe so was it now ?—( year. )—Why continue re-
otrietionsto irritate the minds of so great a masa of
the population ? Whet the consequenoeof such a
system might be, it was impossible to say. To warn
was not to menace. Powerful as we were, eicto-
VOUS sod great in our navel empire, still we were
ytat to build on these thing. as everlasting found.-
tthos. We ought to look to that which alone would
make us inrulnerable—unity and coedial commu-
nion of interests throughout the couuiry.—, rear.)
Why, indeed, a+ Mr. Burke asked, were we to
ntaiutain a Bank of Discontent in the land ? He
had again to repeat, that, on the same grounds as
were so ably gated hit the letter In fore alluded to
(Lord Greuville's) he would refuse to the Ca,
lies, if that we what they now asked, comple:t
nnrestrret-d Emancipation. He agreed most per-
fectly with that letter, on the subject of the
Vera, but that was uo reason lie, no• grime
itto the Committee, for which he was our
the Noble Baron, were he pi' sent, would him-
self vote; for it was the duty of their Lordships to
bear the propmations on all sides. The Noble
Lord then entered into a vindication of his own
consi.teucy of opinion on the Catholic Question,
and alluded to the supposed opposition it was hint-
ed it would meet with in a certain quarter. Ile
knew of no obstacle of this kind. The person at
the Head of the State might instruct his 11,,rtant,
what ass, or was not agree:vile to his opinions, but
it did of follow that the Kole would reject a Bill
poet I by his Parliament. Even if he should do
sio, ti'at was no reason why thew Lordships should
not do their duty to the wide extended-empire, by
gran ing, as fur as lay in their power, the claims of
the C itholics, at the sauce time taking due care to
provide, in an ample manner, for the security of their
own establishments and the civil government of the
bind. By this means, peace and prosperity would
flourish in the lend—the Catholic kondy, in general,
would be satisfied ; and, if the restrictions they
found themselves bouud to toilsome, were dine-
lished by the few whose interests they affected.
they must appeal from their eumplaints or mur-
murs to their own emiscienees, for the comoation
of having faithfully discharged their duty.
Lord Etooe, in a matter of such extreme impor-
tance as the question now agitated, felt it to be
his ditty thus early au the discussion to stand for-
ward. in order to prevail an those Noble Lords
who supported the claims of the petitioners, to tell
him what they meant to do in the Committee, for
which it was their intention to vote. For himself,
in or ant of a Committee, he could never consent
to grant privileges to the extent of those demanded
in err prayer of these petitions. He was too ten-
sible of the blessings of civil and religious liberty.
which the country enjoyed. to risk them on a spe-
culation, of which no one would inform him what
were the grounds. From the expression of these
opinions he was not to be deterred, and he would
continue to support theProtestantCh urch bylaw este-
blished, though it might draw on him the epithets
of a bigot or • monk. He did not mean to say hut
that a proposition might be made by the Catholics
dallier ring of the most earnest attention of Govern-
ment. But when it was asked to remove those aa-
ereel bulwarks and safeguards of the Constitution
established in 1688, by a revolution which seated a
Protestant Prince on the throne, and declared that
all his successor* should be Protestants—which
established a Protestant Government, cis il and re-
ligious—he dill think it but reasonable to inquire
before they went into the Committee, what it was
intended to substitute in the room of these sacred
outworks and bulwarks of the Constitution. thus
asked to he removed?—At present they knew
not but what one person proposed, another
would not consent to: they knew not what
the Petitioners would be pleased to accept, and
ought they, under these circumstances, to go into
a Committee, to consider what they might offer to
those who might reject all the bonne they could
propose? With regard to the letter of the Noble
Baron (Grenville, for whom he eonld truly say he
felt the utmost personal respect,) which might he
referreil to. a+ if it lay on the table, he drew from
it this direct assertion, that security ought to he
taken against the denser liming from the in-
aovatioa now proposed. It aWo sheered that those

who 'nail heretofore supported the claims of the
catholic*, had entertained the opinion that they
would consent to concede the veto, whenerir
the privileges they petitioned for were offered them
on these tenus. As for this veto, he considered it
as absolutely nothing; but what would have been
the consequence, if they had Lone into a Commit.
tee, under these impressions, as they would do utiw,
uuless they came to a perfect understanding be-
forehand on the subject ? The consequenci would
have been, that cootiug out of the Committee. they
would have offered the Catholics what they neither
eonfd ndr would accept. He was not overcharging
the case by the use of this language. They neither
would aloe could, consistently with the come:len-
lieus discharge of their religions duty, accept of
these proffered terms; and if they did accept of
thein, they would be worse subjects than if they
refused diein. For dishonest men could not be
good subject.. Ile begged not to be understood to
hold the idea that any man ought to be incapacitated
front civil rights on account of religious opinions,
but the penal enactments against the Catholics
were framed as a guard against the political
consequences necessarily connected with that
faith which ackno,dedged • foreign supreme au-
thority—(Hear, heor).—lie did out know how
to descrioe what they were to go into the Com-
mittee for. All the explanation that he had yet
been able to obtain was upon the point of the Veto,
in which they were aware only of this, that if they
offered concession on that principle. it would not he
received. He protested against this species of par.
liainentary proceeding. The measures now proposed
were ma direct contradiction to what their ancestors
had supposed to be the Constitution—whether
rightly or not he would not take upon him to de-
cide. They not only affected the claims of the
Catholics, but they would alter every religious in.
stitution in the country. They would change the
situation of the Church of England us much as the
situation of the Catholic Church. Ile did not
mean to say that ilnproveusents might not be made,
or that the Catholics ought not des..rve is better
situatiou than they were now placed in. But this
could not induce him to submit to be placed in a
room to speculate ou propositions of which all they
knew at present was, that the ouly one on which any
explanation was given, could not be agreed upon.—
He never could consent on such ground. to tam-
per with the actual state of happiness the country
enjoyed—a an of happiness from which the Irish
Catholics wet, not excluded--(/rear, heard—
.thd which, fur a century and a half, had rendered
us the envy of the world—.A state of happiness in
which the whole country participated, arising from
our civil and religious institutions, and greater than
was enjoyed by all the world together—(Uenr.
Aear.i —tie would not interfere with this in the
dark, or into a Committee, in which, for aught
he yet klew,, propositions might be made, which
would reader the Protestants, in it few months, us
much the objects of commiseration to the Noble
Earl (Donoughtnore) as the Catholics were at
prevent.

Lord HOLLAND said, that were the petitioners
obscure and mean individuals, instead of being
• great body of one-fourth of our population, still
the grievance. they complained of were so great,
that he must consider it as becoming the wiadoin
stud dignity of their Lordships to take them into
consideration. Again. were these grievances ima-
ginary, and such as could not properly be made
the subject of complaint, yet the petitions, as
tweaking the sentiments of font millions of their
.jrcta, who took their share in the sup-
port of ! h • einpire as it stood, it would be becoming
and prudent in them to take into their consideration.
But when lie considered them in both points of
view, as coin Mauling of great grievances, entailed
upon a fourth of the population of the empire, and
asking o:.ly that to which he contended they had a
most perfeet right, the. enjoyment of the constitution
of the country they assisted to defend apd support,
he cult not but feel astonishment at any resistance
hi in.: off -31 to the et:min:moll of these claims. He
Dever guild 'Mow that the Petitioners were asking
say thing as a boon; they were demanding their
real and indefeasible rights,and he would not
hear it asked in the House, het before going into
e Committee they should declare what it was
they wanted.—The Noble and Learned Lord had
stated the happiness and security enjoyed in this
country. He agreed with him that they were more
than 'illy other country could boast, but he could
Dot assent to the assertion, that the Catholic body
could be included in that description, or had, for
the century :and a half, noticed by the Noble
Lord, partaken of these blessings.—During all that
time. they had been liable to the severest peual sta.
tines ever enacted, which lee could not yet think
of without blushing for them. as a disgrace to his
con:it,-. It was a disgrace, that any branch of
timer enacted in the reign of Weill Anne should
yet remain on the statute-books. As fur those
which had been repealed in the late and present
reigns, called concessions, he would not ackrese-
ledge them as boons, but the restoration of the Cr.
tholics to their just and natural rights. Even now,
they had much to complain of. and justice de-
manded that their prayer Arndt' he granted. At
the same tints while he voted for going into the
Committee. he was ready to agree to the Imposition
or any restraints, which the scruples or leers of some
might deem to be requisite. for the security
of the Protestant Establishment. He was sur-
prised that the course proposed could be objected
to. To go into a Committee was the usual par-
liamentary mode of proceeding. A complaint was
made of exclusion. and the Committee would in-
quire into the grounds of this complaint. He had
heard it said, though not this night, that the dig-
qualifications and grievances of the Catholics af-
fected only a few persons; and, therefore, there
slid not exist so pressing • call for emancipation.—
While he felt the utmost horror and disgust et the
old penal code, he could not help saying, that. to
a feeling and just mind, most galling rid degrading
restrictions did even flow exist. It was not a true
principle, that, being shut out from high Itations,
from the Senate, and from command its the Army
and Navy, hurt only the few who,. from their rank
and talents, might look op to these stations. The
galling restriction spread far and wide, and ens
sensibly felt in the utmost ramie -stir'''. of society.
The saute principle which caused the love of coun-
try eperated this respect. An Englishman, a
Imitated jests hence, would feel triumph aid ex-

ultation in reading the history of the gallentinte
ploits of St. Vinceut. or tielsom not loosuee•they
added to the security of the country, but reflected
ft lustre upoii them as itativeti of the saute country.
What then must be the feelings of those who be-
longed toe class iii which •no heroes were to he
found, and 011 which no lustre war permitted to
shine? Inch feeltila were admirably depicted by
that great master of the human mind, fife immortal
Shakespeare, which he could not repeat, but the
bare mention of it would recall the passage to their
memories. It described it as possible to hear being
steeped in poverty to the very lips, or all the evils
that huinanity was subject to, but not the idea of
being set up as a figure to be pointed at by the
slow and moving finger of scorn. The Noble
Earl. on the other side (Lord Claticarty) had ga-
thered opinions from obscure writings. and argued
on them as if they were the decided opinions
of the general Catholic Body. Among these was
time story of the exconiinuoication of the shoe-
maker, at Ballyshantion. If there was an error of
this kind, it sal not fair to Chargu it 'yllErally on
the Catholic Church. Their owu Church could
not stand alpinist so uncharitable a coarse of argu-
ment; and it was not fair or just to urge against a
whole body what was done by a single individual.
His Lordship repeated the story, aod contended
that it did nut support the inference drawl' from
it by Lord Clancarty. Su epowt• member of a deb
was black-hulled, and thereby lost his character
and livelihood ; it might happen, that if his dia-
meter was improperly taken away, a ju'y would
give a verdict fur damages in his favour. but it dad
not follow that all, his fellow-clubmen were on
that account to be excluded from bciei qualified
to sit in Parliament. Much had been said by the
Noble Lord, learned in the law, of encroaching
upon the bulwarks and safeguards of our Consti-
tution. Dill the Noble Lord mean to state, that
our Constitution was founded on so narrow a basis,
that it could not exist without exclusions? How
could he, learned as lie was in the law. contend
thst these penal enactments were fundamental
parts of Constitution, not to be trenched upon?
Why, if so, was it not told to the Irish Parliament
at the period of the Uuiou? Why were they nut
informed of these fundamental bulwarks against
their claims, rather than deluded with the hope
tit it these claims would meet with consideration
and support 111 the United Parliament? It WAY Out
then understood that such radical objections ex-
isted, or why were they deceived with the idea of
having inadmissible claims, because hostile to
the fundamental law of the Constitution, dis-
cussed. No man entertained It higher opinion of
the Revolution of Itise than lie did, but be
would not put his frith in that standard alone.
The country enjoyed a Constitution, long before
that period, and many wise laws were passed from
the tune of Edward 111. when the (tarnish super-
stitions prevailed in the country. He supposed
some future Learned Lord might cite the Irish
Union as an acknowledgment of this fundamental
principle, and, in so doing, he would be 113 well
founded as the Learned Lord now was in citing the
time of the Revolutioo. No more disgraceful
breach of the treaties of Newry and Limerick
could ever be committed, than the passing of the
Test and Corporation Laws. These chewed, that
no such fundamental principle existed for .o s ears
together, as was assumed by the Learned Lord to
have existed for such a length of time. This wad
further shewn by the Restoration, which was
founded in complete toleration, and by the laws
of exclusion being !nosed from wine to time. At
the Union of Scotland they were rejected, and
therefoic it could not he said, that an uniform sys-
tem had existed. Nay, this celebrated bulwark
had nut elided in Ireland for several years past,
for the Test Act wini unknown in that country.
The Noble Lord said. that the objection did not
rest on the religious upiuions of the Catholics, but
on the politieal principles connected with it. He
was not uncharitable enough to draw such a con-
clusion. They denied the supremacy of tine Pope
in temporal matters. and. he maintained, ought to
be as much trusted on their oath of allegiance as
any other class of men its the empire. This oath
was a sufficient pledge for their fidelity to the
state, and the security of the established Go-
vernment. It was binding on excisemen, aod
held sufficieut for them ; and why was not the
same credit to be put in it when taken by men of
education, of enlightened minds and talent ?—He
did not mean to say that its seasons of imminent
danger it might not be light to disable the enemies
of the State. but that a fundamental principle of
exclusion could not be good —The Noble Lord
concluded with enumerating the high authorities in
favour of Catholic Einancipation, Mr. Burke, Mr.
Pitt, Mr. Fos. and Mr. Grattan, to whose public
principles, eloqueuce, and ability, he paid the
highest complimehts, and expressed a fervent hope
that he would live to see his favourite object accam-
pl sued, gist. the death-blow to intolerance, as
he had before done to tyranny and oppression.
The Duke of Noßrot.it supported the motion.
Ile feared there was too much truth in what a No-
tate Lord (Chinearty) .01111; but yet the House
ought to take into their consideration the claims of
four millions of people, who only asked to be ad.
mitted to the same privileges as were enjoyed by
other Christians under the same Government. As
for the story of the excommunication, all churches
had a similar power. and the same practice existed
in the Protestant Church. A Noble and Learued
Lord wished them to state what they would propose
iii the Committee. They would propose to offer
the Catholic. that participation of the Constitution
which was consistent with their own security—
(Heer. hear). His Grace then Noticed the incon-
eistencies of the existing laws, as affecting the Ca-
tholics, and earnestly recommeoded conciliation to-
wards them, as essential to the happiness and secu-
rity of the empire*
The Earl of BUCllNCillanslitat defended the
Parliamesit of Ireland and his own conduct in op-
mating the Petitions of the Catholics. A Noble
laird had said that the Grand Juries and the Cor-
poratiou of Dublin had mitered tato certain resole-
., lions against extend 11,7, the elective franobiee to
them ; but though this fact was true, it was not
true that the Gosernroent was concerned in such
resolutions. The mistake Might naturally enough
' hart Oriel% from the eonnectiou which WWI known
to sithaint between mammy members of the Grand
Juries sad of the Adissitiistrition. Ile maintaiaed

that after this privilege was granted to their
,teal' of being mere mottled, the Catholic,
came still mule uoreamoniible in tioir denial
He complimented the Catholic Biottopv, to,
'undid wanner in which they hati come fon
and expressed their sentiments. Coutpl)ll,,,
Site present motion would, he thought, 6;
posiog the principles estahlialted at the Ittiolut
and throwing such a firebrand *mono the iwo
as would prodnce the worst of cuutterimpue„, •
tinght remember how general the.cry of .•
pery" had become. at a particular perio•J ; a
which he acquitted the Government of having
ghosted.

Lord float scoot' thought it would he pros
live of the worst Conseiguencea, to excite ixrpti‘l
must he disappointed. In other countries the
pointinent of liiihrips aas by the Holy See, mu
saw uir redunn In think that it would he oilier
in Helmut. lie therefore objected to the pu,
in the present instance, though he wao frooul
to the of the Catholie claims. lie (li-
med such an impression going forth, as ►hat
door eta for ever shut against them. The hill
*ion that Ought to go forth was, that the Ln.
which they now held was so far from cumillt
and good will, as -to riperate against the c,iinai
cation of those privileges, which, at a lii
period, and under different dispoeitio..s, flu-) tu
expect. Ile insisted much ou the ntea-i %
temperance and conciliation, upon the part ef
Catholic•, moil was confident, that if such a .0
Was pursued, it would procure for them thaw ,
advantages which it was their oliject toattoiu.
Lord Us DVwsT•NYlt.l.li said a few words
very low toile of voice, which we multnuaoci ti
in opposition to the motion.

Lord °KEY expressed his reluctance at tree
Dog upon their Lordshipa' attention at so la:
hour. particularly after the able and eloq
es
i.
le
personal motives. brat prlueipally by his dutch'
sotpluropil the
unanswered.
drAfehi notice,s
Noble "Nin
diottei:vi eifb:
had been
ii4ennen;d:
Grenville)
mr i4r::" a le
I ta ottitfdrrehfut:s.'iPtiggli
absent et
bon
a:ga'
de
e
e
which they must all regret, upon such au wear
He was authorised to express.the deep concert
perienced upon the part of his Noble F,
himself, benig unable to be present at
discussion of a measure. perhaps, involving
salvation of the country. He wished lien
offer a few words in defence of IL letter alli
to by the Noble Lord on the Woolsack, and r
ten by his Noble Friend. He regretted that
Noble Friend was not there to defend it in pet
lint, as lie was lint, he (Lord Gee)) del act t
that lie could find any great difficulty in deletiatei
it 111 1119 absence. He had no tient:l63n to ea),
thnt there was not a principle avowed in that pro-
duction, that was Slot Coll.l9lent with Strict justice
and true policy. The Noble Lord on the Wool-
sack hail said, that wl.at. he was willing to gout
before, without condition, he was now OePirsurvf
accompanying with tundi,lol, ; but he (Lord
Grey) would appeal to the Flnieie whether this writ
• statement of the . ions of his Noble
Friend .'—/(deer. Arne, beac.,*He 'could appeal.
whether, 1111 the contrary, he had not aws's
looked •to the necessity of conditions? la 18(55
he had asserted that necessity, in 1808 he lad
repeated that assertion, and attested upon ti:e es•
pediency of a general view, in which all interns
should be weighed, as well that of the ',runty of
the Protestant Church, as of the ernanci:.un.. r of
the Catholic Commuuity. He would ICI. tLe No.
ble Lord On the Woolsack, that these were ',cite,'"
liruitations, and that the inconsistency which he
charged on his Noble Friend was out -apporable is
argument. He agreed with the Noble Lord, that
the Catholics had done much injury to tneir osa
cause ; but though he felt the difficulty aud dig&
vautage under which they laboured, in etnc-
qteenee, still it did not deter luau from giving
his vote for the present proposition. Fir ass
happy, to observe, that since the publication oleo
letter alluded to. a more conciliating spirit bid
manifested itself, that the Resolutions of the Cs•
thelics of Tipperary, Kildare, and other parts, ex-
pressed a wish to conic to a fair consideration of
the subject, and to arrange such securities as were
consistent with the principles of their faith. The
present state of the country was such as required
the adoption of this measure ; if, indeed, as the
Noble Lord on the Woolsack had said, the restric-
tive laws against the Catholics constituted the hul-
weeks of the Constitution, then such a measure would
lint be requisite ; but if the converse of this was
true, if it was true that instead of contributing to its
strength, they produced weakness, then might it be
said with justice, that, upon every principle of true
policy, and enlightened legislation, each a measure
was expedient. The Noble Lord bad stated, frith
all the gravity which belonged to his high situation,
that the principle of restriction and limitation was
according to the principles of the revolution. tie
wished that the Noble Lord had candescent,. d t 3
offer some argument in support of a proirion
questionable. Übe (Lord Grey) knew any thin;
of the principles of the Revolution, they were ri:4-
ciple4 of liberty mid tolerance-. The I.•'^ril.ie
whirls he contended was, that no bu...• in her .1
email interfere in religion, without tyrant:), awl
oppression; that there were cases in. vitle:.h
vernment might interfere, he allowed, but thri
were cases in which political principles were
involved, and it was towards the politrcal ri"
"We', not towards the religious ones, ths:
• taterfereace was directed. Rot the Noble
Lord. in addition to the authority of the Re-
solution. quoted that of Lord Somers, iu which
he was equally unhappy. Lord Somers irtir
the friend of liberty, and had contended is
Parliament, that nothing but a crime of the nio.t
detestable nature should disqualify a man
cseivrivliningivhdisege4Kinangdthe
and
Country. Nothing was de.
terenmed at the Revolution for the exclusion of any
class from the enjoymeut of the Conet.tntionc--
Those laws, it was true, were not repealed,
there was Do rocogn,rance of their principle
glory and sattsfactiotni°Cl
gthoenticuucrittraorl
she were admitted to all its pnver-les3 a .4 le-
came;
nGav;o:erinpalleenwta.s
tauhirsenarddrisordati2i.i.tvll:..,
came: ninny of them, distinguished 'Member I
',rah Houses of Prelistnent. Such rectum,.
therefore, as those to which the Noble L..

bolt

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