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London, England, 1807-03-05 00:00:00

Arrears and Subsidies, and Extraordinaty Payment
havitz done •3. I conctive that the remainder will
give rue the amount of the permanent :supplies,
which may be wanted hereafter dutiog the %Var.
From the Ways and Means is to be dedu.Sed that
amount, which I think may be called Extraordinary.
in th • peseta year, ir.cluding the Loan and War
Tales. 'Fhe balalice I have considerod as perma-
at a for the nest twenty years." Here the Noble
I .o ,d entered lite a initiate calculation, to illustrate
th• conclusions which he drew, as above stated.—
This he thought n:•c'ssary to do, in order to make
the Committee understand the principles upon
he had formerly st ited his pints of finance.
--The Noble Lord then concluded, with moving
several Resolutions to the above purpor.

On the Resolution, that 16,9;7;83'i1. be the Sup-
ply los the Navy.
Mr. ROSE animadv;:rted upon the statements
which the Noble Lord had made when he first
brought forward his new plan of finance ; he con-
tended, that there was a fallacy in representing the
sum of thirty-two millions as .sJ•:quare to cover the
general expenses of the year, and that it went to
lead the public to entertain expectations which he
was persuaded would be tar from being realized.
Lord H. PF."I-IY, in reply, retested to his first
statement upon this subjed. When he stated, that
S 2 millions would be sufficient to cover the cm rent
expenses of the year, he particularly excluded at
the time the contingent aad additional expenses
which would be incurred, in the event of war, from
Subsidies that might be voted to Foreign Powers ;
and he also met.tionect the probable additional ex-
pellee, arising from the increased price of stores,
kc. He denied, therefore, that he had been guilty
of any fallacy, or that he could be supposed capable
of attempting to lead ttae Hou.e to expeet, that war
could be carried on (including probable subsidies),
without incurring an additional sum, to the general
expenditure, beyond that of 32 millions. He had
expressly proposed, that the excess, arising from
Subsidies, kc. should be raised, by means of a Sub.
sidiasy Loan, or otherwise, as the House should
judge fit. As to the probable amount of Subsidies,
he had stated. that no certain data could he formed ;
as this amount must, necessarily, be bubje ft to such
accidents and exigencies, as might arise ; and that
to whatever extent they might be granted, they were
to be provided for, over and above the annual ex-
penditure, which be bad calculated as not exceeding
St millions.

Mr. ROSE admitted the general correflness of
the Noble Lord's exp;anarory statement; at the
arse time, it certainly did appear to him and others,
that the Noble Lord ha.l originally held out an ex-
pedatioa, that the sum of 32 millions would cover
all expatiate; but. notwithstanding this, the Noble
Lord bad, since then, obtained a Vote of CteJit,
by the issue of Excheeper Bills, to tho amount of
3 millions ; but. as yet, it did not appear, from any
thing that had passed in that House, for what pur-
pow such a sum was called for. beyond the sum of
80,0001. etivansed to the King of Prussia, and other
Subsidies to Russia and Sweden, to the amount of
about 800,0001. more. Thus, then, there appeared
to be an aftual addition of 3 millions to the 32
millions, and this since the fit st Financial Statement
of the Noble Lord. about four or five weeks ago.
If so. he would ask. what reliance could the I louse
place on any statement, relative to !be future expen-
diture of the country?
Laid 11. pEri Y said, hehad already stated, that
there would be wanted to be raised, by way of Loan.
14'200,0001. and if be had also stated an advance
of three millions, by vote of credit, still that would
make no difference as to the Atte on which his finan-
cial plan was formed. He ideated that he had ever
stated, that there would be no call for the advance
of subsidies to Foreign Powers ; his statement was,
that the sum of thirty.two millions would meet the
current expenditure, independent of subsidies, AS
well as the increased expense arising from the in-
creased price of provisions and stores. But whilst
he had fixed the sum of thirty-two millions as the
most certain datums, as to the amount of the annual
expenditure, he was fully aware that other ex
relicts would doubtless occur c but still there was
Lathing in this to prevent the House from taking
the precise slam he had stated; and from his arguing
upon that ground. he had already sheen, in the
course of the evening, that the actual sta:rd ee-
pences for the year bad been thirty-one millions
and a half, which was 300,0001. within his calcula-
tion, and that even including the increase of cursor-
dies, Ws, amounting to betwixt 7 and 800,0004 ; but
this increase had arisen. wit as the Right Hon. Gent.
(Mr. Rose) had supposed he nad insinuated, within
a kw weeks, but grew out of a variety of compli-
cated accounts, which had not been made up when
he first brought forward his Filmincial Resolutions;
but, even notwithstanding this eonsidetable increase
in the amount of the Rxtraordinaries, he still found
that he had taken his takulation so lasgely, that he
Was still able to Ming the amount of the general ex-
pen limee within the sum of thirty-one millions and
a h df. Upon the whole. therefore, he felt himself
fully justified in repeating the assertion. that thirty-
two millions was the stated expenditure. exclusive
of whatever excess of expenditure might arise from
the increased price of the articles of provision and
stores, and from foreign subsidies. which. in such
cases as might occur, the Roux were competent to
judge of, and also of the means of making good
such expenses.
Mr. ROSE declared himself still at a lost to know
why such an excess of extra wdinaries should have
aiisitn, and to have been unforeseen and unprovided
for by the Noble Lord, when he made his first state-
ment ? anJ a:though the Noble Lord had excluded
subsidies and the increased price of provisions, he.
still it could not have happened that this price
should have so increased within the last four weeks;
but now an issue was required of three millions of
Exchequer Bills, whilst he only saw a requsitien of
80,0001. to tr.. Kiag of Prussia, and about 600,0001.
extrato diearits.

Lord H. PE ITY said, that when it was first pro.
posed to raise, by way of Loan, 12,200,0001. it was
at inc same time is contemplation to raise an ad-
ditional sum by the issue of Exchequer Bills on a
Vote of Cresht ; there was therefore no contradic-
ton. when he stated the amount of the Loan to be
I t!,200,000!., and no excess which had arisen, had
give. occasion to the raising of an additional sum
by a Vore of Credit.
Mr. FELLOVs'ES said, he had understood the

original statement of the Nni.):e Lord etaltly as be
had now explained it ; and that, exclusive of the
Lain of 12,200,0001. there would he wPored three
millions more to be raised by Exchequer Bills.
Lord H. PETTY, Mr. ROSE, and Mr. FEL-
LOWES. severally explained.
Sir or. Tun I'ON thought that the event had al-.
. ready proved the fallacy of the Noble Lord's cal-
culation, and that the sum of 32 millions would not
be sufficient to defray the current expeuces: if the
country at large should be led to entertain this opi-
nion, it would lit.d itself grossly mistaken. He al.°
wished to know, whether the 600,0001. to Russia
was in consequence of an old treaty ? [To this the
N•lble !mid opposite (Howick) nodded assent.]
Mr. VA NSITTART said, that when the Noble
Lord (Fl. Petty) first brought forward his Financial
Resolutions, it was undetermined what should be
the amount of the Vote of Credit. 2,400,0001.
had been raised by a Vote of Credit last year, and
the excess of expenditure beyond the estimates, bad,
during that period, amounted to 1,100,0001. ; the
100,0001. to Russia, was in consequence of the
winding up of an old account.
The resolution was then put, that the sum of
14,200,0r:01. be raised by way of annuity, of which
the sum of two millions on the part of Ireland. The
several resolutions were then agreed to ; and the
House being resumed, they were reported, and Bills
ordered to be brought in accordingly.
The Sugar Duty and Irish Excise Rills were se-
verally read a third time and passed.
On the Order of the Day being read for the
House resolving itself into a Committee,j on the
Importation of Tobacco into Ireland ;
Mr. Ho SHOUSE in the Chair;

Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, that in conse-
quence of the augmentation of the duty on To-
bacco, and the transfer of the colleSion from the
Customs to the Excise, the lush iinpirters were at
present liable to an additional inciene of 2J. to
every SJ. of the duties ; an increase not within the
contemplation of the Legislature. He therefore
moved, "That the sum of '2d. out of every Bi. in the
duties on Tobacco imported into lieland, do cease
and determine.—Agreed to."
The Brandy Duty Bill was read a third time
and passed.
A Clause for offering and allowing Bounties to
the captors of ships conveying Slaves from Africa,
was proposed and carried in a Committee of the
whole House.
ROMAN CATHOLIC SEMINARY.

Mr. Hobhouse brought up t:lz Report of the
Committee of Iti,L Supply. The various resolu-
tions having been proposed for the adoption of the
House,

Mr. PEaCEYAL rose to oppose the grant of
13,0001. sod upwards. to the use of the Catholic
Seminary at Maynooth. Since he had last stated
his opinion to the House on that subject, he had
taken no slight means of acquiring lofotrnation.
and the result of his inquiry went more stedfastly
to fix the motives of his opposition. It Was not the
amount of the sum, increased as it was in the pre-
sent instance, that solely excited his hintility ; it
was in the growing nature of the demand, that
he saw the strongest ground of alarm. As
the Irish Parliament had thought such a mea-
sure of policy advisable, he was still willing to re-
tain the principle of meeting that determination ;
indeed, the United Legislature were bound by the
principles of good faith to continue the grant. But
there was a wed* difference between the allowance
of a grant, averaged annually at 0001. and the
concurrence i■ demands, which were progressively
increasing, and had, in the prior estimate. atually
amounted to 13,0001. There was, in his mind, another
Very strung ground of oblation to the enlargement
of this Catholic Seminary, that it operated to the
prejudice of the University of Dublin. The House.
by adverting to the Journals of the Irish House
of Commons. would find, that it was a growing
practice with the Roman Catholic Gentry in Ire-
land, to send their sons to that University, pre-
vious to the foundation of the Maynooth Seminary.
On a former occasion, when these estimates were ►ub-
mitted to a Committee of the House, he had ar-
gued on the great and numerous benefits which
would arise from tbe joint education of both Roman
Catholics and Protestants, in the same University.
It was affirmed, by the Right Hon. Baronet oppo-
site, (Sir John Newport), that, from the shortness
of the period since the relaxation of the penal sta-
tute, which precluded the education of a Catholic
in the University of Dublin, ft could not be ez•
peeled that a great number of Catholic students
should have embraced that opportunity. But
the yawl number. whether great or small, could
not idea the question; if the opportunity was
taken advantaye of by any Catholics, however
few, it went to prove, that in their minds there ex-
isted no prejudice against a participation with their
Protestant countrymen in the same Collegiate edu-
' cation. The Journals of the Irish House of Corn-
mons gave important information upon that point.
In perusing them be had found, that at the period
when the measure of founding the Maynooth Se-
minary was submitted to the Irish Path ament, the
' Catholics themselves presented a Pell,ioll against
the inexpediency of ezc:uding the l'►arestaats from
the option of being educated there. The prayer of
that Petition was grounded oa the great natimial
benefits a communion of opinion and mutual good
Will were so likely to produce. They certainly
felt, what every true friend to England and Ire-
land most feel, that friendship and conciliatiosn
would follow, from the professors of the two
religions being, as•ociated in their education ;
and it was With no light source of regret that the
circumstances of the cite made it necessary to de-
clare, that the opportunity of AL...fling such beneficial
consequences was suffered to escape. Had the
public money been at that time ••xpended in enlarg-
ing tile University of Dublin, instead of adopting the
polit.y of a separate Institution, a great objet would
have been obtained, the benefits arising from which,
would be found every day to increase. lode dit
Was not saying too much. to assume, that the in-
terests of the Protestant University appeared sacri-
ficed to the advancement of the Catholic Seminary.
Within a few years, the Professors of the latter
Institution were doubled ; that ►s, from nine Pro-
fes,ors oriyinslly. there were now eighteen ; and
for this iner,:.ve there was uo distine notice ever
given to the t louse. With rasped to the oilier. or
seinis.ary for the education of Laymen.