The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1807-02-11 00:00:00

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ABOLITIOS OP Xl/41/71MP.3, VF.177.23.4 P7I4IItOSS,
AND EXssitlit f ANT
%fr. 13IDDULPil—o I rise, Sir,' in pursuance
of the notice I had the honour of giving on a for-
mer night, to submit to the considers ion of the
(douse, CI motion CORlleetell with a system of econo-
my, and, in its import, similar to that proposed by
an lion. Friend of mine in the year 1797. In in-
troducing this motion, I can with truth affirm, that
my mind is totally uninfluenced by those passions
which may be supposed to agitate public men,
in bringing forward plans of retrenchment in Ore
national expenditure, or motions for the rerltiCtion
of places and pensions. The great cmeininn in my
mind, that a great pratlical benefit would result to
the country, and to the revenue of the country. is the
most striking inducement with me foi submitting my
Motion to the consideration of the House. How
that benefit would be hest procured, has also been
the sulijett of my inquiry, and in referring to the
precedent and example of the Motion of 1797,
find, that at that period, the appointment of a Com-
mittee of Fi.iance to investigate public establish•
ments, and to silt official abases, was considered
the best and most appropriate method of proceed-
hie. That my present ceij set would be best attain-
ed by moving tor the appointment of a similar Com-
mittee, I am inclined to conclude; particularly when
1 consider the advantage likely to result from an
attentive perusal of the valuable documents of the
former—from the light which the labour and in-
dustry of that Committee has aftually thrown on
the sublet—and, final(-, from the eventual good,
which the applicati in of that iaformatien, assisted
by the result of the intermediate time and circum-
stances, must in any future inquiry produce. 'There
were certainly rainy impediment, and shako!.
ties of no trifling nature, in die way of that Com-
mittee. To some of their inquiries, they found it
impostihle to get even an answer; and in torn, eases,
particularly those connefted with Scotland, miry wets
not only kept in ignorance of the necessary an
Wets to their interrogatories, but were absolutely
rendered incapable or extending their researches,
from the obscurity and vagueness in which such
ohjeas of their inquiry well involved. Without
troubling the House with . any general reasoning
on the necessity of adopting a entwine of the na-
ture I propose, I alit at present confine my-
self to the statement of some particular cases,
and be sari:tied with drawing the attention of
the House to those immense emoluments which are
attached to offices in the Exchequer, and to other
branches of the national estahlishmens, in the inves-
tigation of which, the appointment of a Committee,
founded on a Resolnian similar to that of 1797,
would, in my opinion, be calculated to produce pleat
and important benefits. With respelt to the offices
in the Exchequer, a &limner: of opinion has existed
as to the ssrvicer pCrformed by these in possession
of them. My decided opinion is, that no service,
proaerti mate to the cm Ailment, is performed ;
and, therefore, that those emoluments should, under
the circulistancrs of the eountry, be considerably
dimiuished. In a. consideration of this n mate, the
law of the c Ise is taut the only iple which
should guide Parliameritary decisiad ; the /readier,
precedent; and usages of the country, as applied
and need upon at various 'periods of its history,
should form no small portion of that reasoning, on
which the Resolutions of this House are in general
feu tdeel Reverting to that history, we find, so
late as the year 1782, a Bill carried through this
House, for the purpose of limiting the stipends of
the Tellers of the Exchequer.to 40001. per :annum,
in lieu of fees and other charges. As thy back as
the vevoltnion,or in a few years after that memorable
event, a table, regulating the nature and amount
of the fees and charges then demanded by the Tel-
lers of the Exchequer, was prepared lit 1702
an alteration again took pine in the regulation of
those offices ; and the di.tinft and specified reason
for this diminution of the salaries, was the increased
expenditure of the country, in consequence of the
Continental wars of king William, which had oc-
casioned an increase of the public burdens, to the
amount of one million six hundred thousand pounds.
In periods subsequent, when the public burdens were
still farther increased to the amount of six millions,
and in the Army Services, above the sum of two mil-
lions was expended, the Officers of the Exchequer
a3ually resigned one-third of their salaries, giving
as a reason for that sacrifice, the accumulation of the
public expellee, and the consequent necessity of A.
vial retrenchment. From these examples in our
history, this inference undeniably follows, that such
offices can claim no greater proteCtion now than they
did then, and therefore it is consistent with the duties
of Parliament to regulate the emoluments attached
to them, by the state of our national resources, and
the peculiar circumstances of the time. nuns the
Reports of the Committee of Finance, a mass of
intelligence and of advantage to the country can be
cella-Red. In the 27th Report alone, the Committee
have proved, that there are offices, with salaries, to
the annual amount of 26,0001. which ought to be
'seduced. The observations which ac:nrnpanied
that opinion, fully justify the conclusion ~inch the
Committee conceived it their duty to draw, and the
system which they thought proper to recommend.
In the words of that great lawyer and statesman,
Lord Hale, they advised those progressive and
timely amendments and reforms, which arc calcu.
latest to prevent great evils, and to produce much
good. His opinion they also stated, relative to
those offices where the services are performed by
depaties. If the hates (said ho) are unnecessary,
why continue them! or, it necessary, why not re-
gulate the salaries, by the amount which She de
putt' receives. I feel unwilling to enter into any
further detail, or to take up the time of the I lons°,
but to observe, that the ebjed of my 'Motion is t•
aptraint a Committee, to whom instruCtions as ge-
neral as those of the year 1797 should be given.
In those in:mations, I find no reference was made
to pensions. On this part of the inquiry, l'should
propose, that the Committee should be directed to
inquire into that branch of our establishment, and
to ascertain whether there exist grants of this kind,
either flagrantly ezen-bitant, or improperly
The Hon. Member concluded by inoving—•• That
a Committee be appointed to on. der of what say-
ing can be made, by the reduftiars of useless Places,
Sinecure Offices, Exostortant Fees, and every other
retrenchment that can be made in the esetuditiere
of the puldie money."
Lord HENRY PETTY rose, and spoke is the

follnwinc,r eTen :—.` Ur. Speaker. Whatever p st
difference of opinion may exist between the /feu.
Gentleman and myself, with respeft to the terms and
wordhig of the Motion, on the principle of the fob- •
ien, there is not the slightest shade of distindlon be-
tween him and me, and all Omit with whom I have
the honour to be connected in i f.s M ijc-ty's Govern-
ment. We feel equally with the H in. Gentlemen
the in the expendi-
t necessitynreof the
public restrottrecsetse,caonndomthye justice and po•
licy of relieving the public burdens, by a re-
cludion of the emoluments of some offices,
and an *abolition of others, which, in• the great
establishment of our national polity, may be foond
either exorbitant or useless. Upon .this topic,
there exists, between she opinion of the country, and
the determination of His Majesty, a strong simila-
rity and union of feeling. Convinced as 1 am of
this unanimity of mind: X do trust, that a similarity
of feeling, equally strong, operates with the Hon.
Member, with tespod to the position, that in the in-
stitutions of every country, a right should exist, of
rewarding the exertions of public men, by a remu-
neration, suitalne to the services whie's they had
rendered to the state; and correspondent with the
dignity of that sphere of society, in which they
moved. The necessity of providing such men. with
Mr eats and rewards, never was, or can be disputed.
And that the power of conferring them should be
within tie reach of Government, is a maxim which
the Constitution and asagesi of this country. has,
in every period of its hittnry, supported. The
pima of consideration is to ascertain how these re-
treats and rewards bear upon the general in-
terests of the s:ate, how they are best go ird-
ad egainst excess, and in what manner the
power of conferring is rend led less liable to
minter. I do freely admit, that in former ye:trs, the
grants of this nature had reached tows extent highly
prejudicial; but since the American war, it has been
the constant aad undeviating w irk of this House and
the country, to adopt all the met pradictble and
beneficial mutinies for their resinsition • and one
of t!:ose means was the appointment of the Corn.
mission of Accounts. The same laudable ob-
jea was kept atrial), in view by successive ad-
. ministrations. It formed a leading concern with
that Ministry, at the head of which a near and
severed relative of mine was placed by His Ma-
jesty. During the existence of that Administra-
tion. and the succeeding one of Mr. Pitt.-tie pu in-
ciple of reduCtion continued to operate, and navy
retrenchments took place in the depaitment of the
Treasury, and in the diminution of various nfficial
fees and gratuities. In the year INS, a new Com-
miss:on, with the same objed, was appointed, at the
head of which you, Mr. bpeaker, were placed ; and
ibis House and the country have reason to admire
the unremitting attention and indefat'gable industry
with which that Commission proceedeetin its exten-
sive and important researches. 'Thus it does ap-
pear, that a proper and beneficial reduCtiort has,
ever since the American War, continued •to be the
,constant and incessant aim of the Legislatute—a
redunion consistent and compatible with these two
grand pnisciples—the resources and expenditure of
the canary, together with the power of conferring
rewards where services were performed. I know it
has been a favourite opinion with many, that it
would be more congenial with the interests of the
nation, to substitute large pensions, as a remanera-
tion for great public exertions, in place of sinecure
which are so productive of ahuse. To this
opinion I would, perhaps, feel no difficulty in sub-
scribing, were we called upon to meet a new case, or
to chalk out a new path: bat when I consider that
those sinecures are canna:led wish the antiquities
and history of the country, that they are as it were
interwoven in the organisation of its polity, and in-
volved in the exercise of its forms, I then feel the
necessity of Slipprnting their continuance. • Un-
doubtedly, on too many occasions, such grants have
been improperly conferred ; but to convert such an
improper use into an argument against their exist•
encer would be a total surrender of fair reasoning
and just conclusions. You may as well establish
theimproper condud of an unlearned judge, as an
argument against the system of jurisprudence ; or
the errors of an ignorant military commander, as a
decisive reason for disbanding an army. In what
has fallen from the Hon. Gentleman seho has sub-
mitted this motion to the House, he appears to me
not to have given credit to the respedive Adasinis
[rations, for their exertions in reducing such offices
as to them seemed advisable. What, I ask, has
been the result of those successive inquii les In the
Customs and Excise, all sinecu-es have been abolish-
ed t a considetable redudion has taken place lathe
great Offices of State. In the Exchever, to which
the Hon. Gentleman most particularly alluded, sa-
laries were attached, as a fixed and certain commu-
tation for fees, which might have been increased to an
indefinite extent. There remains one office in the Cus-
toms, the Colle&or outwards of the port of London,
which was then suffered to continue, for particular
reasons, and under particular circumetariees, in the
possession of a Noble Peer, and which, from simi-
lar inducements, has now devolved to his brother,
the present Duke of Manchester. In a country
where the lives and fortunes of public men are Mica,
of necessity, devoted, and sacrificed to public duty,
and to national pursuits. it becomes an obligation
on the State, to provide a retreat for their aciaanced
age, and a remuneration for the past services of
those who have been so employed, and whose pri‘
vate fortunes have been thus impaired. Not only
should such remuneration be made, but it should be
proteded against any future hostility and attack.
Of this description of rewards are those great offi-
ces in the F.xchequer, to winch the Hon. Gentle-
man has dirtily alluded. In answer, I have only
to advert to the opinion and feelings of this House
on a former occasion, when the right of the persons
holding such offices was considered as valid and un-
doubted, as that by which the tenure of landed pro-
perty is upheld in this country. Indeed, I consider
an attack on the rights of persons holding such offi-
ces, tinder such grants, as a dired invasion of pri-
vate property, and to be entitled to the same repro-
bation as every other unprincipled age resion. There
am ether offices, such as the Register of the High
Court of Admiralty, and the Clerk of Parliament,
in which a legal right of property exists, and
where the revel tionary interests are secured. It
is certainly very true, that according to the 27th
Report of the Committee of finance, great-abu-
tot exist in the Law Del:late:neat, and many sett emelt-

JI

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merge may. an I trust will. beeleala. Ink is
that department. there is also given •to the rreat
Law Odicers, fn tise way elf petronagie some fond,
out of which they may be enable i i' flintidelOT
their families. With reseeift to drelan I. mine eel
been already done, and with my Right Hon. Erieee
(Sir John Newport) at the head of the 'high &errs•.
goer, and from the acknewledged cher:After of tint
Noble Duke who presides over that Government,
every ttioe which economy, attentien, and ern.
tion can 'twists, mite: be expe•ted. The. hate
already given a decided proof of their wire aell
economical system of pollee in the Bill for the
Abolition of thirty-eight Offices, which has pain('
this Hitt e. In this country, one great evil, the sn„,t
pregnant with abuse, most calculated to entail distress
upset the empire, has been carefully avoid-d by the
Administration with which I keys the honour 4k
being cooneard ; as we tan safely and pre•edle
say, that, since our secession to ante, net a sineia
reversion has been granted—(Hear! bear!) s bee
on the contrary, such a principle has been intirels
and solemnly renounced. In all great eonntrie,,
where there Is so large an expenditure. indefinebse
abuses will of necessity exist ; but I can vita
truth ADM. that every pteeticeble measure has twee
adepred to prem.( their growth, and to provide a
wrong and permanent check age; att their recurreeee.*
The Nehle Lord then concliideel, by miviog a*
Amendment to the original Motion, by subtirutiag,
in place of the words, after the ward 's appaine*
the following." a Committee. to examine end cons
s;der such It-vitiations and Checks as have been
adopted. in ord.,: to enttrout the several branches
of the Public Expenditure. in Great B.itein and
Ireland, and to ascertain how far they have prone
eifeaual ; and also to determine, what farther nuts
ores can be adopted to diminish the eotnent df
Emoluments and Sinecures, without detriment tiet
the public expenditure."
Mr. WILB4RFOLICE-e" Sir, it is with the sits
serest pleasure I rise to express the satisfaftiok
I feel, cei hearing the Nible Lord meet the What
which has hien made, in the manlier he has done, bY
binding himst•li for the examinatina of the expeoche
tore of the public maftey, and in fart giving support
to this very motion, by the amendment which he
has proposed. lam gild to find that Noble Lard
ad, ween in the Ministerial situation, in the manacle
he might have been supposed to nave done, when on
this aide of the House. This cote:vet, in my opt.
aion, does the present Administratiow the higher
honour. But, although L feel satisfeaion iq ape
proving highly of the general tenor of his speech,
I feel it necessary to make a few observations, ales
to state .soms•thing like objettions to some
parts alit. If I understood him rightly, he said,
that he would not innovate upon the Constitution, by
making any alteration in the mode of rewarding
services bat that were he speaking of a new Consti-
tution for any coutery, he would rather reward them
by granting pensions, than by creating riaecurote
Now, this particular passage of the Noble Lord**
speech; I think, would prove injurious, and is there•
fore deserving of cepsure.• Much depends upon the
times we live in, in regard to hew services perform.
ed to the country ought to be rewarded. Nothing
can be more proper than to give pensions, in pat tice.
ler cases, proportioned to the services rendered, and
proportioned to the ranks and situations-of the pets
sent en wheel they are to be bestowed; bet, is
other cases, it may be proper to give much more
than a mere equivalent for the esiolunienis of the
(Aces formerly held by those who have distills
guished themselves in the Army. N ivy, Law, ht.
We often find individual: aiming at more than
mere personaremoluments. We find them seeking
their reward in the honours they acqu're, by tenders
ing themselves of extensive usefulness, so as to en.
title them so be recorded in the history of their
country. We also often find, that those who have
entered into the publie service, have givens up
their professional situations, for the small enjoyment
of a sinecure; and thereby giving place to_odurs,
to show their great talents fur the public advantage.
—lf we were to abolish sinecure offices at all, or
at any time, it would be reducing the rand*
of rewardingfublie servkes, to a more awkward
situation thanit stood in at- present, 1 ant one of
those, who wish that the utmost economy should
be observed, in regard to the expenditure of the
public money; but I cannot help exerewing my*
.elf thus, upon the impropriety of making such a
general exception to sinecures. f payee hogging,
great satislaftiou in observing, that each progress
has been made in this great work ; and. I cannot bat
recoiled, upon this occasion, that it was one great
excellence of that eminent Statesman, now no motes
(alluding to Mr. rail that during the many years
of his lie which were spent in the public service of
his country, this was an o;•rjeet which he always
kept in view. Without any regard to personal
remuneration, he persevered in abolishing all of-
fices which he deemed unnecessary, and even those
which he had in his power to have given to his owe
friends, by declaring always that an Alt of kerlia-
' ;tient was to be passed for their estinaion, so AS VI
' prevent their being given away. By this means,
there were no less than betwixt 20 and So oticese
in the Excise and Customs, entirely done away. It
might be said of him, that

" II • di! g ,o 4 by straith, and blu,hed to find it fame'
These anions wer, not those of the Government of
the day, they alone proceeded from that obit
Statesman, who afted not from mere ostentatious
motives, but solely for the good of his country. To
him we owe much honour in ascertaining bow the
public money could be listowed most to the publit
advantage. Hover much some may be disposed
to reduce the emolumnits complained of, it would
be low, base, and mean, to conceive, that ilk
a country such as Britain, turn who have held high
situations, and rendered eminent services to the
public, should be leit without that support which
their sitnationsicd their services entitled them to, and
which their conatrymen owed them. It is a mistake
for any one to conceive th it offices in this country are
overpaid--(Hear kite ! bear hiw !)—So far as money
goes, the fait is, those who occupy pteilic offices
are rather nadir paid (Lend s,, its of dear beer!
bear hies I Bens all quarters of the Herm.) Conti-
&sing the situations they 611, and the persons the!
most associate with, their personal emoltior:nts
were much smaller than they ought to he. Its sa.t,
however, that they feel a reconvened of a higlicr
ord:r ; but, at tee same time, it is ncithdr a jastice to
them, nor to their families, that the 'r country sis Nil