The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1825-02-15 00:00:00

THE MUM

the opposite side of the Home were not always pleased a: what fell
from Gentlemen at his (Mr. S. Rice') bide. Nay, Right item
Gentlemen would often be iliaaatit:fied if the speeches of other Mem,
bees of theCsbinet were confounded with their own; and he doubted
not that the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. l'hotkett) would
deem it the greatest injustice, if the speech which bad fallen from
his Right lion. colleague (Mr. ooulbum) should be charged
against him. Was it because a deliberative amenibly like the Ga-
-1 thulic Assuciation had acted absurdly or violently, that he should
condemn the whole proceedings of that body, and even the body
whose sentiments they represented ? lie only claimed from (be
Gentlemen, for the Catholic Association, the same indulgence
which they required themselves. ( Hear, hear.) The violence of
both parties le Ireland was admitted, but the question of violence
does ant stand on the same ground as respects both parties; If that
party which enjoys power, and wealth, and all the high office!' of
the State. and which is admitted freely to partake the benefits of
the Constitution—if this party betray violence of conduct, it is in.
excusable ; but if the excluded party, which is shin out film the
honours of the State, and dues not enjoy all the benefits of die Co-
nstitution, sometimes exeeede the limits of moderation, can it,
ought it to be considered matter of surprise? liut, he would ask,
had his Honourable Friend acted fairly, when he charged. the As-
sociation with violence? lie thought the !lot:curable Gentlemen
had suppressed some of the faces which lie might have Uncovered,
as no doubt he had looked through the tiles of the Dublin news-
papers. lie (Mr. Rice) begged pardon for reading front a news-
taper, bat as newspapers were the State pereeee of Honourable
Gentlemen opposite, he could not be censured for meeting theta
'with their own weepers. Honourable Gentlemen could not object
to hit erideoce unreal they wished to undervalue their own. lie
would read an extract front a speech made, he believed, at the last
meeting of the AsweeitaaO, by Lord Killeen, and in mentioning
the name of this respected Nobleman, and stating that heated
connected himself Rah the Catholic Association, he named a
"person who was more remarkable for his enlightened understand-
ing and moderate principles than even for his high station. His
lordship commerce:el by stating (Mr. R. here read from a news-
paper) •• that the present was a meet important penal in Catholic
Imufiti es, it was a trying occasion, a crisis; in this' said said(Mr. Rite)I
fully concur with them Noble Lore. " lie appealed to his wan.
1 Wymen, not as Catholics but as free subjects, anxious to en•
' !by the rights of free subjects." The Association were natu-
-1 ferally. diecontented at this new attempt to restrain them front
excecheng the right to petition thu.t House. His Loritellip con-
tinned •• Without the coneurearate and support of thole Protestant
I countrymen, the Catholics could never expect Emancipation, and
I it behoved them to be watchful. that time snares of their opponents
lead tbelit into no indiscretion, calculated to forfeit the good feeling
of the. l'roteitants. lie conjured them, not e by the hate they
bore to Grangenice," but " by the love they owed all men," this
I sentiment was received with cheers. It was mentioned by Honour.
able ttentkinen opposite thw the violent sentiments uttered in the
Association were applaudeli, but here he could prove, that the
Ass: ciation knew how to appreciate moderate sentiments. H.
cotijurerthern, net " by the hate they bore to Orangemen" but
" by the hive they owed all men, by the stake they had in their
country, the veneration'they owed to the memory of their facia-
there, the fidelity with which they cling to their religion, which the
I lure of emohernentuor thee.pprebeneion of punishment could shock,
to submit to the laws with the firmness of men, but with the
I submhtsion of subjects." Now when much a speech was utter.
i ed in the Catholic Association, by such man as Itord Killeen,
I and received with the wanner approbation. be implored the
"House to pause, at least to suspend its judgment, before it decided
upon such arguments as they had heard front the other side. But
it is cud, that the Catholic Association disconnects the Government
I and the people, and obstructs the administration of justice. It'
would be little wonder if the Catholic did not look to die !louse oil
f'ommons for a remedy ; bet it should be recollected, that one of
the main objects of the Association, was the transmission of petitions
to the House of Commons, With respect to the administration of
justice it Ireland, lie should have wished that the Member fur New
Ross (Mr. Doeetcy) had not mentioned the manner in which it
was I,!Ministerell with such unqualified approbation. lie felt the
less etluetance in alluding to ibe Honourable Gentleman's advocacy
of the manner in weigh justice was administered in Ireland, be-
cause on other occasions the Honourable Gentleman hail stood for-
ward as its advocate. With all due deference to that lion. Gent..
he (Mr. Rice) could rust conceive, how he could have forgotten to
inform the House, that in the performance of his professional duties,
' he (Mr. Dogherty) had, during the last year, assisted in the prosecu-
tion of • several delinquent ntagistriees int the leenater Circuit.
1V hilst the Hon. Gentleman came forward to panegyrise the adini•
nistration of justice, lie might have stated, that he himself had been
the mewls of punishing delinquency. Ile (31r. R.) did rot lay
' much stress on these panegyrics in favour of the adminietration of
justice. He remembered when the salmiuistration of the revenue
lawi was seemly praised. Ile remembered that the same applauee
was bestowed on the conduct of Irish magistrates. When it was
stated that they received improper fees, and sometimes committed
improper acts, nothing cuuld be more indignant than the denial of
femme honourable gentlemen. Yee facts occurred in the course of
the inquiry &Wove stairs, welch demonstrated that these charges
. were not ill.fountied. It was most clear that they had practised the
most unjust mid iniquitous proceedings, under the sanction of their
: magisterial cAttracter. When it weaseled, what good was produced
. I by the establishmeet of petty sessions? the reply was, because the
: magistrates acre in the habit of taking improper fees, and acting
partially end corruptly ; but by meeting in petty sessions, and act- '
mg in concert, they cannot act unjustly and corruptly. The House
should not hastily conclude that there was nothing wrong in the
: . aterinlstratlon of justice in Ireland, when assertions were w conti-
I dcnthy made on other important points. It was admitted, ueiver.
sally admitted, that a general disposition existed in Ireland,
. to oppose die execution of the laws. This must have
.I proceeded from something. Whence did it proceed? If
the laws were fairly administered, he could not conceive'
. that any nation could be so blind and bigottcd as to
hate the laws which protected it. lie should state one
fact as so illustration on this point. It appeared that 6.000 persons
had been committed under the distillery laws, and, upon an exami.
nation before the Committee of Inquiry, it was staked, whether it
Was worth while for illicit distillers to distil prime whiskey to sup-.
ply the tables of weolthy individuals ? The answer was in the
negative ; and the reason given was curious, that none except dig-
nitaries of the church, the king's officers, and magistrates, would
pay for prime whiskey, if it was made by illicit distillers. The
it would appear that the dignitaries of the church, the kiug's e"
cure, and the magistrates, countenance elite illicit traffic so injure.-
to the revenue, and demoralising to the peasantry, and that these
three classes were accessary to the commitment of no lees than
6,000 persona. If the laws should be administered so as to conduce
to the luxury of the rich, and t njury of the pore those
laws could not be respected bilffithe poor. Ile did not
mean to insinuate any thing as respected the Ilish Courts of Jus-
tice in Dublin. Justice, lie believed, was administered in them as
it ought to be. lie was not indulging in a hypocritical encomium,
when he mid his humble tribute to the combined and unrivalled
learning, eloquence, ability, and integrity, which destiagu tithed the
Irish Court of Kitts's Bench. lie would not wander iuto a neigh.
bouring court, where the House might regret to see buffoonery de-
facing learning, and die puns of the doe substituted for the sober
purity and seriousness of manner, whirl should accompany the ea-
ministration of justice. •The conduct of the Irish to the Arch-
bishop of 'Yuan:, bad been alluded to by the lion. Gent. (Mr
Dawson) as an act of signal ingratitude; with all the lion. Gent
said, as to the benevolent and truly Christian character of this
esteeined prelate. he (Mr. Rico fully concurred, and would join in
reiterating. But the Honourable Gentleman suppressed eoune-
thing. The Catholic population, forgetting their violence, had
gone in a-body to the Archbishop of Twis, and claimed die privi-
lege of bringing home his harvest gratuitously, to show how much
they loved Win. In stating what. occurred to the Archbishop sub-
sequently, he hoped it would not be forgotten, that the Catholic
populadue conceived that he had (no doubt impelled by a sense of
duty.) joined in a crusade of proselytism, that he had leagued
hitnselt with those who invaded then in their own territory, and
endeeyoured to make converts from e religion which they were
attached. to, because it was the religion of their forefathers. This
should be mentioned when the Irish wete charged with ingratitude;
and he might be permitted to say, that the crime of ingratitude WAS
the last with which, the lower classes of Ireland ought to be
charged.. If the Irish had not shown much feeling as a nation for
this cntiotry, and did not feel the weeniest affection for its laws, it
might be accounted fur by looking to the Statute Book, and not by
charging Ireland with ingratitude. Besides, he would say to (lon.
Gentlemen who censured die Irish for ingratitude, try them with
itindiren. An Honourable friend of his attributed the tranquillity
which Ireland enjoyed to the existence of the Penal Laws; and
consistently he new came forward to support a new penal law ;
to vote ter it as a mode of pri%erving tranquillity. The
reign which preceded the menet had been designated a reign
of concessions to the Catholics; and, no doubt, many impor-
tant concessions were made during it. Strong feelings of gra-
titude were excited in Ireland, and manifested thetneelves by many
allusions to the memory of the late monarch, although it was known
that his late 3lajesty was Rem:madly adverse to the Catholic Claims,
But now, in die reign of a King who is not considered to be ad-
verse to those claims, what did lie find ?—a new penal law, to in.
flict injury on the Catholics without any concurrent advantage.—
Ile said without any concurrent advantage, bet:lva—could any
man conceive that the proposed Rill would be operative ? Could
not the Catholic, Assectation devises hundred modes of evading its
etrovisiuns ? lie had heard the Secretary for Ireland (Mr. Gold.
burn) declare on the first uigheof tine debate, that lie should be
prepared to run a race with the CatledicAisociation. As quickly
as the Aesociation by any effort of ingenuity, contrived to evade •
clause, the llonieteable Gentlemen would introduce another to meet
them. But the honourable Gentleman did not appear to consider
the advantages which lie Muth give the Association by such a rase.
The Cathulic.Awociatiou mug -always be .before hint, eve when
the Honourable Gentleman set of (ruin his,ottice in leontlon, the
Association should have reached Hounslow. Let it not be consi-
dered an unworthy trick if the Catholic Association took advantage
of nr.y opening which the Bill permitted them. Liberty wss de-
fined to he `• the right to ()severe thing which the law dues nut for-
bid." This was the most limited definition of liberty he had ever
heard, and acting in the spirit of this definition. the Catholic Aasti.
elation would be fully justified in evading die Bill now before the
House, if it should pass into a law. Upon the ground that the Bib
by
gents.
.b:pe iron nspi crate,
otinveco,
Connected with the most dangerous projmtierillytialsntd ak
the other
upon them as pledges and gesolians of security
upon the ground of these opposite and irrecoocilable opinions, as
well as upon the ground of its injustice antlinexpedieney, he called
, 14)011 the Howie to consider and weigh well before it gave its sanc-
tion to a maser', which, although it could nut operate fur good,
might, and, he thought, would, ileeply and extensively operate fur
evil. (Hear. hear.) It sumo bring the Home iii contact with every
peasant in Ireland. Every peasant who Ind a grievance, or

imagined it, looked to have this genuine. made known to Par-
liament, thrugh the Catholic Association. For elle first time
the arm of Parliament was raised against the peasant, he
would now consider that his grievances would net be redress-
ed. because they eonld Oat be known. In conclusion,
though he Had r.ot weig!mt, nee age, to attach importance to his
appeal, he would again conjure the House to pause before it con-
sented to the introduction of a measure which could not do good,
but must produce au infinite deal of evil. On those grounds,
therefore, and under the circuseetances, there was no oppoeitiou
I that could be given to the Bill which lie would not with the most
heartfelt latioduetion give.
11r. DA at'SON explained.
Mr. BIIOWNIA/11, said, diet at this late lemur he would not
trespass on the attention of the House, but he felt it his duty to
nee for the purpose of giving such support as be OAS able--and he
wished it was greater—to the bill that had been Or.trod aced into
the House by the Right lionouratide the Secretary for Ireland. Ile
knew no gentleman connected with Irish affairs who hail laboured
snore ASOtillollilf for the good of that country than the Right lion.
Seerelary, or one who hal been more =alma, more ddigent, or
more successful in his endeavours to do that country service. He
did not however wish to separate the Right Honourable Gentleman
from the Administration of Ireland, nor was it his intention so to
de. It was an assertion so elicit repeated, that at length many
[ peewits Intl believed it to be the case, that the whole Protestant
population of Ireland were drawn out in array against the Allan-
entratioe of the Marquis ll'eliesley. This lie (Mr. Browolowe
would in the must unqualified manner deny. It wan under the
Administration of that Noble Lord that so much and such great
good had been done for Ireland. It was under the Administration
of the elarmiii Wellesley that Jolted had proved of so much
attraction to English capitalists; it was under the Administration
of the Marquis Wetleeley that so many measures had been
ponied fair the redressing of grievances, and that so ninny grievances
had been redressed; and it was under the [Administration of the
klarquis aVelleelry that Traub(' haL passed from a state of rebellion
so a state of tranquillity. The Administration of the Marquis
Wellesley had proved a great and decided blessing to the country ;
the gratitude or the community had beau its due, and the thanks of
the cnmmunity had been offered to ie—but by no part of the com-
munity more sincerely tban lffibeeProteetant portion of it. The
[question Tits, what wu it theTtoduced his Majesty's Ministers to
adept their present course of proceeding—" to embark," as one
Honourable Gentleman had said, " on a crusade against the liber-
ties of time subject ?" He (Mr. Brownlow) was amuous to make a
few observations on this subject. It was said that the Marque
Wellesley bed been jealous of the Catholic. Association, and
had therefore made efforts to put it down. This was not the case ;
nothing appeared to have made his Majesty's al inieters pursue the
course they were pursnirge—nothing except the necessity of te.es-
tablishing a lawful government when that lawful government had
been 'tiniest beaten down by the usurpacious conduct of the Roman
Catholic Association. flow greatly he wished that the reasonable,
manly, and respectable petition he bad had the honour to present to
Parliament. at the close of the last Session, and the observations tie
had coupled with it, had not fallen so far shoot of the object in view;
the state of Ireland would then hare been very different to what it
now was, and far more agreeable to the wishes' of all Fatties in that
House. A Hight Hon. Gentleman had said that the Catholic As-
seciation was but the medium by which much bad blood might
escape, an excrescence, as it were, on the brow of heautv, and
that the wiser method were to suffer it to die of itself.—Yet the
speech of his Majesty had informed the (louse, that some steps
must necessarily be taken to apply a remedy to the evil. and the first
legislative act of the Home was the bringing in a Bill fur the sup-
pression of the political 11$41/Ciillooll of I relioul. Irma association,
he would ask, was particularly alluded to? what other than the
Catholic Association, and the Catholic Association alone? (Hear,
hear, from the Oprositien.)-11e wished that the blame and oblo-
quy of such a measure shouldrest upon the Catholics alone, be-
cause the Protestants, since the last Session of Parliemeet, had
done nothiectliat ceidd call lath sorb a charge from the Throne,
on such au act as that contemplated by the legislature. Yet he
remembered that in the .Iforoling Register of Dublin. the paper
that Mr. O'Connell asserted to he the only one directly emanating
front the Association, was the ueertioa that Orangemen. sworn or
liObworm, composed the whale Protestant population.—lle would
any of the Ovengeolen in the north of Ireland. that their conduct
bad been as temperate, rioderate, just, and charitable, as the
'Charges made against them by the Catholic Association lied been
unjust, intemperate, and uncharitable, and, he might say,
without example. the conduct of those Orangemen he knew in I
be eleverving of the warmest etilmetittnt, and not Slcii as to warrant
their suppression. Yet they had 'been called by some honourable
gentlemen opposite, bigots, tyrants, and hypocrites ; they had beat
decried as men who proposed to govern the country, and who never
thought of parting their petronsge. But he would look at these
people either at the head of their families, where they were beloved
and respected, or as landlords, where they were blesinges to their
tenantry—or as inagistentes, when they always fuldlle I the duties
',trusted to them, and in tray way in which be could look at them,
le could say that thoy magnet &needy professors of religion, but that
they had that faith which always brought forth fruits, and that
they were not surpassed in the excellence of their conduct by the
gen of any part of Ireland, or of any country in the world. He
ded that the tueaseita neer'lnfote the house called ter the
suppression of the Roman Catholic Association--and of the Roman
Catholic Association alone—for there had been no act on the-tart
of the Protestants at all calculated to give rise to any such measure.
But as the mother will often take* eau woos draught, for tile pur-
pose of encouraging to do so the child that is sick, an they were
ready to suffer—the innocent fin the guilty, the just for the unjust—
those who love the laws for those who would involve them in one
common ruin. The lion. Member who had just sat down, had
endeavoured to find Beau apology for the person who thus headed
his addresses to the people—
" Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow."
In his estimation Mr. O'Connell and Mr. Sined were lambs, and
the Hon. alembor for the Queen's County had found out that the
evils of Ireland had ndt arisen from the causes to which they were
generally attributed, but from the conduct cola Mr. Gordon and a
.11r. Noel, who introduced that wicked book, called the Bible, into
Ireland, lie (31r. Brownlow), grieved to hear any person in that
!louse, state to the Mouse that that bank had produced
such in/chiefs at those attributed to it by the lion. Members
for tleoQueets'e C,otitityand Northamptonshire. But Mr. Gordon
and ale. Noel were not capable of doing that w ith which they bad
beep charged; they were not labcuring tor human praise, bet they
looked for a higher reward. Their object had not been prose-
lythou but if it had been so, he would say that the feeling was a
laudable one ; that it was laudable in any person believing in any
particular religion to endeavour to win to it others of more inferior
and lees refined creeds; their object, however, had not been pm-
selytism—they had been sent over to Ireland by the London Hi.
bernian Association, and he had never heard the charge of pa-
ssivism made against that body. We it proselytism, he would ask,
to send over the Bible to those people according to their own
translations? %Vnes it proselytism to employ Roman Catholic
teachers ? IVas it proselytism to obtain Roman Catholic inspec-
tors ? And was it proselytism hi them to endeavour to become
conuected with the Roman Catholics in every wey that they could ?
but it wou not against proselytism that any opposition was offered.
No, it was against education, education ef all kinds, and no mat-
ter how or by whom it was propagated; fur on the ignorance of the
people were founded the hope,: of the Roman Catholic system. The'
Honourable Member for it malign (lir. Rtoushio ti). had said,
he lied attended to the proceedings of the Roman Catholic Assoefa-
tion, and there he had not Osumi a single word that had been writ-
ten or said wrathy of censure. lie (Mr. Brownlow) might revise
the picture, end say that web the exception of thedocument dirt had
been just read, tithed toot found any thing in their conduct but what
had proceeded from bad n otives,and had * dangerous tendency. The
Convention Act was for the prevention of unlawful assembliee ; but
it did not merely extend to assetoblies that It'll an illegal and im
moral teudeacy, but to chase that, without any illegal or intim-seal
tendency, were disapproved of by the legislature, and which the
peace officers were therefore authorized to put down. It was not
necessary that they should Bogen at time door to know whetherwimat
was uttered was seditious or am, but they noight st once dieeolve the''
assemblies. If dangers appeaecvf, the legislature took care to pre-
vent those assemblies from which auger might arise. A great
deal of ridicule had been thrown upoe this Act by the llonotarable
member fur Notthamptonshire, because it tlid not except the Horse
of Commons fro. •.1 its enuctinentx; but although such was not the
case, he thought it was wise to create particular exceptione, by
reason of the hogeneet of the wading of the aft: He (Mr. Brown-
low) conceived, that if any man food forward in tbd(l to op-,
-pose the Cottletille Association, It thetild be such as gave his sup-
port to the question of Catholic b;enancipation, and had this moan.
ciliation truly at heart ; ti cause he conceived that nothing so much
retentlecl the progress of the (catholic question, or threw it back
out such suspicious ground, as the Catholic Association, and
their declared but indefensible sentiments. They did not meet to
petition, but they met fur the purpose of carrying the public
aeneintent slung with them; of declaring, in a bold and confident
tone, that they represented Aix millions of their countrymen, and
to Calla e the legielamn: by fear of such measures as they mio,,elit re-
sort to to acquiesce its soul grant their demands. It was impossible
for Parliament, at that time, to grant the Catholic Question. The
House had a document to that purport from high antlinrity—from
the Marquis Wellesley, from hint who moved the Catholic Qnes-
tion in the House of Lords in 1812 ; and why was this the case ?
%Thy, but because the intimidation that such measures carried to
Parliament mast now prevent Parliament hum yielding. It was hit.
possiblefor Parliament to yield and to preserve its dignity,—if it 'I
eubninted to the temper and tone in which demands were made,
and the (open resistance that had been declared towards the Govern.
went, • lie would speak from his own observations, and in the
north of Ireland, lie believed, that for ten persons who formerly I
signed the petitions in favour of Catholic Emancipation, there I
would not Intone man found to do it. lie thOught that the trail.
quality of the country had been brought about h 3 the eiltillnietra-
hoe 9f, Local Welk, ley, and that it was owing to no other thing ;
but if the Catholic As &nation had been instrumeptal in pruducing
this tranquillioy in keel nl, to them aho must be a tributed all the
d.eturtances d a had so 1 in; existed in the country. Ile would
edouit slim they were a m at powerful bony, that, although they
were insignifieensat thoectutimencemenm in respect to rank, to num..
bees. and to the interest they excited, he was new free to condos
t' at the case 1a t alum& that the Home n Catholic Amos:via:ion
;tow contained among them Peers, the Roman Catholoc hierarchy,
the Roman t'etliolic prieethotel to a titan ; stud I e believe., that
every peasant who get 'e is s penny to us support, colosidered himself
as connected with its n ereete. and bowel for its existence. Bet the
cave tit it ism untied the. t n 0 on the Parliament was a very a-gent
one : there was ogle one way out, and that was by instantly, and
without delay, exerting itself against this Catholic Association. if.
this Alisociution hail obtained such influence over the minds of the
people, it it were able to call this people into action when it pleased,
she Perliament had a right to fear, or, at lento, to see, on what
ground it btootl, and to feel it a bounden duty to adopt SOlllO tech

.

plan as that recommended by the Right Honourable Secretary for ' down be coercive measures for a short time, they would soor, again
I teland. how was it that the Holum of l'arlisment did stand ? I make their appearance, and arms could notethiniattly rev uce them;
In what situ them was it ? This wet material to consider, The I and for this plain reason-because they were rut:nettled by deacon-
Roman Catholics say, admit us low lauliament, and if rim de I tent. He would ask the lionouteble Gentleman whether he ever
this, they will hereafter say, admit us into all the great ntlices of I knew of a single instance of combination where the conemunity
the State. lie believed that many thought the (louse ought rot to was sound ? But the question was, whether it was prudent to put
atop short in admitting then to Parliament, but that all other ad. i down these associations in the present state of Ireland. and whetber
vantages ought to be granted also. Sup wese then, the House ,' a digkrent course of conduct-that which had ban always recom-
granted the latter demand, what would they then say ? What t mended by one class of statesmen to whom lie had alluded-would
would they next dcieand ? Why, that all Church property should I not effectually 'tippets* the combinations complained of? What
be given up to them. They would say, we are the people to whom I w, re the common ingredieuts of that danger that would render the
this Church property was originally granted, nod it is but just that • measure necessary 1. First, was mischief intended ? Secondly, was
it should be res ored to US. Is it likely that the Roman e'ataolic l mischief done ?-and hail had any daring language been used by
Laity would be satisfied in having their own claims granted them, I the combiaation so complained of, dreaded by gentlemen opposite'?
and would not complain if the Roman Catholic Clergy. the objects / If be had to argue that point, he would call upon the Honourable
of their idolatry, were cac!uded from these benefits? Would they I and Learned Gentleman opposite, as his witness in the canna to
not rather threaten you that they were six millions of onside. pos. I bear him out in the seserteatt that no danger done or implied ems-
smell% the ainews and the capabilities of war, and that if yea did i nated front the Society, and no daring language had been applied
not give up this Church property they would take it ? This would, , against the Government; for that lannied Gentleman had dee:tired
he doubted not, be the eud of granting Eniancipodon to the Romeo that no evil intention had appeared on the part of the Association.;
Catholic,: of Ireland. In conclusion, he would q luote a passage and in giving that declaration, lie had acted in the most candid
from the sateen of the present Lord Chief Justice of !rebind, who, 1 and hotiourehle manner; and, therefore, if his previous elm:acme
when he was Attomey-General ter that country, addressed the ' did not lead the House to know his sincerity upon a point on which he
Jury on the dial of several Boman e'atholic intlividoete in. Igll. had so Olken warmly ispressed himself, the way in which lie spots
This Learned Gentleman said, " IVhat man who Joint a polkieal of the de.igns of that assembly, nitr. he satisfactory to every one. •
society can answer ter himself how far he shall go ? His menet* But they die not require the authority of that Learned Gentleman.
nray be at tint laudable and good, but as be proceede, the +Mho. highly respectable as it was. All the circemstances connected with
hemence of debate leads hint astray, and lie who hegira as 'a the members of that Association -their domestic tics, their stake in
patriot ton often ends as a rebel. Mat can forget that at the country, then high characters, all combined to render them in-
first the fatuous society of France was funned of the best and pezious at least, if not useful and bereficial to their country. The
the wisest of men. But short was the termination ? Teen" numandfLearned Gent. had dose no violenee to his feelings in mak.
gond men were put down by demagogues, and Were driven ing the statement that he had done relative to the Association-it was
forward by a bad (action to that vortex beneath Which they human nature the principles of which the Learned Gentleman was
ware buried. Religion and politica, become equally coafountled so thoroughly acquainted with, and which it was well always to
and. last; and the Nobility, me by one, perished with those who cultivate, that must convince every one of the danger that existed in
were virtuous and just." lie (Mr. Brownlow) thought that the 'suffering such a state of things as gave rise to the Aisociation, bet
observations that bast been applied to the Roman Catholic* of I which, hooking at the person!: who cmnpoeed it, rendered it a source
101 l might be applied to them now : and he most sincerely u. oe tranquilli:y nit:ler-man disquin. Ile might with foe and truth
hoped that the lion. House would adopt some such measure apply the senetments of Cicew to the members of the association
as that propueed by the Right Mitt. the Irish Secretary. as te maxim which conveyed a sure proof of an absence of bad io.
Sir J. 31AleKiNe'Oall said, that although he had at all tention. " alaximis pigaoribus illigatutu tenet respublica. Pro-
times listened with the utmost attention and respect to the lion. heti:lima utter eptatiesinn liberi." The virtues of domestic life and
Member who had just saoken, considering him as the acknow. the innocence of intentions are the best pledge. of the objects of
ltdged and avowed aavocatc of a powerful party, whose existence • parties; but there were positive lattice wales implied circumstances
he (nu J. 31ackintoah) nevertheless regent-A, it was not to r- • that showed the fidelity of the Catholic Aseociadon. In one it:_
ply to him' that he rose, but to gay that, duringehe debate :net • seance a Judge had thaakel the members of It for the part that
had taken place in that House on the ',resent subject, a ere t • they had taken in bringing a case before a l'outt of Justice, tree
many Members appeared to be more influenced by the spirit i anti distinct frost all party reeling; and, in another instance, they
of Irish factions than alembers of the Brinell Perlientent had been thanked for bringiteg sonic important intermation before
ought to be; at:! he regretted that such a spirit should havel the public. The Right lion. the Secretary of State for Ileum
found its way itau the debates of that House. He did not in- Affairs, had taunted hint in consequence of the existence of she
tend to reply to the lion. alentber who had just sat down, al. Catholic ANsOCiatiOn, coupled with a cue in England, that to
though ha considered the observations of that lion. Blend-ter jurors would he found to pinfomi their important duties in (cons
to be far more iraporbun than any that had been made during of Justice. -rhe present Lord Mayor of Tondos luati lent his
the three nights to which this discussion had been protracted, mime to a society, called the Constitutional Association, but better
because he considered them to contain a direct avowal of the known as the Bridge-street (eine. He was at that time one of the
principles upon which the Bill had been framed. But he had I Sheriffs of London, and had pricked a Jury, th:it was chat/caged ih
taken advantage of the first moments of returning strength, to consequence of its being a cause that was lerougbt into Court at the
address the liutise on one of the most imperial/It subjects that suit of this Association of which he wan a member; and it was
was ever di:cussed by the Hon. Members, lie rose to protest contended that he was an In patty ten that account, and it
against the mama that was attempted to be cast upon the Pet/odic was very properly admitted that none of the panel could Reeve.
cause, by alieding to the conduct of a 'human Cathodic body-he But the Right Him. Gentleman had argued Meisel( met of Court
rose to protest agamst the silence of which they complained, when upon that point I fur, it' it were true that no ease could be brought
they applied fur a redress of their wrongs-he rose to protest against to trial in that account, the Association must give up erosecuting,
the dismouragement of centuries that had been thrown upon them- i and he thought that the case of the King v. Dolby pet that matter
and he rota to protest against the Bill which it was now sought to at rest. He would next apply himself to the canelourand justice of the
bring into the llouse, a-Bill that might be well called a Bill to re- I !liaise when he batted the case of a body of men who were dragged
move from his Majesty's elinisters the necessity of doing justice to before the public as criminals ; for, according to the showing of the
Ireland, and to introduce another •nporieing system into the Hon. Member tor Armagh, not only the Catholics but all Irelend
country. Against this Bill he would =jet laps feeble, but earnest would have their liberties cur aled; and upon what principle of pub.
and euictun protest. lie would say, as his learned colleague who I lic justice or ',Male danger were tile House to do it ? lie wished Gen.
closed the debate on the preceding evening, had said before him, denim would read attentively the lung address published by the As.
that he wee, by habit and education, a Protestant, and that in the I /iodation iti latcensber, 1824. and, atter having read it over, let any
name of Protestant he gloried, revering the reformation as the elenilier stay, if unfortunately this Bill should go to a second read.
introduction of new and ineumerable blessing' ; but he still ing, by which means they would have an opportunity of seeing all
knew that ro dangers was to be apprehended sheets emend- I its enaeuneas it it could be necessary-or if two parts in the Ad-
pating those who. on religious topics, tisteight different to him. dress were omitted, it did not breathe conciliation in every portion
The great principle of the rights of individuals were attacked by of it; and ti:at nothing but the blindness of party spirit (MOW head
it, winch left every person independent as to their omelet of faith, to the apprelteasion al danger from it. Omitting these two para.
and upon which an unfettered power issued from the constitution graphs, (lie was sorry so great a critic of language was rot paying
to enable all who hied under it to enjoy civil and religious liberty. more attention.) he would repeat, that nothing could be found ob.
This treasure set up the principle of opposition amongst these jectionable in the Address beyond those two points. From other
Papists in Protestant clothing, fee it was upon ('catholic principles topics the Address went on to notice the cause and punishment of
in the worst times that the supporters of the Bill before Use thane the crane of Whitebeyism. Some, it said, might blame the admi.
proceeded. It was at that time the Catholics would have been the niseratian of justice, ' but every rational man must say dun they
natural allies of those who wished to abridge the liberty of the were the result cf different proceedings. They thought cc-
subject; but those who were now the partisans of this extraordi- wards to informers unjustifiable ; but the House would see
nary project ought to be the most formidable *bettors of civil And how careful the Association in its Adders' was of alluding to the in.
surrection, and in avoiding any words that indicated disappuintment
religious liberty. The circumstances in which they were now
placed, and the charge of mind that had taken place in those at it; but they had, notwalistending, been charged with niaogling
whose liberties were sought to be abridged ought to lead to far those laws that they had been attempting to vindicate, He knew
different :multi than those that were auenipted. lied he lived at of no instance on record in the interpretation of human writing
' the time of the battle of the Boyne, he should have been a mortal where a more complete distortion had been put upon the words of
enemy to the Catitolies, and Toad have drawn his sword again-et any document, than upon those of die Address in question. The
them on that memorable occasion. In those principles of civil and writers of it had evinced the most perfect desire at reconciliation.
religious liberty that were laid down at the Revolution of 16611 s in Then again :be passage in which the word •• bate" was introeuced;
which he bad been brought up, in which he hail lived, and in that had been tortured by sophistry into a most dangerous ex-
which he hoped he should die-in the spirit of those prir.ei. pression, and the course that had been adopted with regard to It
plea it was that he rose to defeuil the Catholic cause, against rellirWleti hint of the critics Dryden spoke of who illustrated the
those who had been its longest, ablest, sal most santare sup- dislike of certain principles by constant) y leaning to that. In.
porters. It was now nearly thirty years since two systems Johnson used to say that he was a good hater. lie hated 0 lilac
unanimously prevailed and were enfoteed by their respective and he bated a Seotelatretn now he was both a Whig and a
advocates relenve to Ireland. The one &earthed to Cethelic Scotchman, anti he belonged a club that great man founded, and
principles the greatest possible danger, and that they could only be if he were` now to rise front the dead and walk into the elub.roont
met by Araociatiors, Committed', and eotrthinetions to put them he should not be afraid of reconciling 1/r...tohnsonao hint, although
down. Others, taking a More comprehensive and profound view he was a Itesig and a accnchman. When men expressed their
of the subject, believed that the evils originated in a rooted hatred hate against bodies, they did so speak of them in their corporate
between the two factions that so long had agitated Ireland. avid capacity, and in their proceedings in that capacity ; the haters
which might be classed under the heads of Congliceore and Con• had no dislike to the individuals who compose them bodies, in
ered • and that the disenssisas that arose were the natural con. their isoleuel character. lie might say-he should say, very nau-
tili ,
eequences of the relative situation of the two parties. The first rally-as a party, that he listed Tories; but he should speak most
claseof persons to whom he had alluded, were for applying theremedy untruly. if he were to say, that he hated Tories individually as well
of coercive measures; the second class thought that the most probable as collectively. For some he had the most allecti,•nate regard ;he
mode of decreasing the dissensions that afflicted Ireland, wu by ne- had lived on the most intimate terms with them, and he regarded
ytociatingbetween the two factions, on sbasie of perfect justice. That many as his sincere friends. Within the last thirty years the term'
was considered as an set of absolute necessity, to restore the btedy po. Tory had been used to indicate a party, but formerly it was used
litic to that state of health which would produce industry and matte as a repreech. Since the accession of the house of Ilanover, would
quillity. and that course of feeling between the contending factions, any one be prepared to say that it was immoral to bring about
that would ultimately lead to a bond onion and good fellowship. peace, or to set up one vice against another:? Why, every one knew
The Irish Union was brought about o accomplish that great that if the vices were not opposed to each other, there could be no
object, thetholic Emancipation, at least so Mr. l'itt declared in his virtue, and enlisting passion on the aide of peace ought not to create
lifetime. and his friends since his death hail been equally ready to I alarm. The last speaker had told the House that the measure be-
admit, and indeed, the evidence of facts bore out the assertion ; foe fore them WAS in consequence of the Catholic Aesociation-tae
it appeared the only prominent circumstance that would a states. Orange lodges might have continued. The part al,ty then of
man particularly to advise that measure. The Union of Scotland those lean is avowed; and as a elenther who was an ornament to
in the reign of Queen Ann, Was bniught about upon very different that House had declared, the whole vengeance of the Bill was di.
and distinct prieciples. That wee thine to secure the succession of mated against the Catholic Association. lle (Sir James alackin.
the house of Hanover. because a disaflection towards the reigning tosh) was a father-and he was sorry, in some respects, that
reality existed to a great degree amorgst the nobility and gentry if be was a grandfather; but he confessed that he should net
that country; but in Ireland the disaffection was amongst the be inclined to treat his children as had been recommended 1v
1
great trait of the people, and therefore the same danger as to a I some Gentlemen. lie should not be inclined to give physic to ail
second Parliament in Ireland did not exist as in Scotland. be. Ida children, whether well or ill ; he should rather be inclined to
cause it was a different cleat of persons who were disaffected . give a little nice sweet lemonade to those who were well-snil give
there, and whose itithietoe immediately operated on the pro- only the physic to the sick one, and try to persuade the invalid that
etedinge in Parliament ; but in Ireland the dissatisfied were out of the tiatisions ereught was nice lemonade. lie confessed that he
cis sphere of Parliament, and therefore the same apprehension, could never bring his mind to treat those of Ids family who re-
could not exist in having a separate legislature in Ireland that did quired physic, and those who were well, in "the stone way.-(Con.
in Scotland. Indeed, it was the avowed reasons for bringing about tinutti laughter.) By these means no wry faces would be made me-
ttle l'nion that the Catholics might be admitted to the immunities eept by those Om were compelled to take physic-and lemonade,
of the Constitution. Lord Grenville, in the Hoene of Lords, in nut wormnoeet, would be applied where medicine was not fleets-
-1383, who had been Mr. Pitt's colleague at the time of the lenitm, sary. The Honourable Gentleman to whom he had before alluded.
said, " now we are called upon to perform the duty imposied upon us had said that the law might apply to the Catholics, but it would
by the act of Union." lie was not in the habit of speaking in dia. not touch the Orangemen, because they carried on their proceed-
puragement of tiolse who differed from him on public questions ; logs in secret ; but the lion. Member for Dungarvon had assigned
those who knew him best would bear testimony to that fact at hest, another ree.sen, that Orangemen were banded together without hay-
but he thought. without fear of contredictioo, he might ray, that ing °cession for seaet associations to unite them together. They
I eieee the year 1812 up to the present time, the whole genius of the met on.Granct Juries at Quarter Sessions, and various oilier places
' oitintty, wills one splendid exception, lout been arrayed on the hide where Catholics could not assemble; but, on the other hand, the
lof gteterous feeling and liberal principlea Tire result lied been, Orangemen were almost associated by the law itself, and that
that the question had been carried in that House, and even in the truly might be content if the candidates for liberty would be quiet.
House of Lords, in 1812, it had been lost only by one, on the lieso. His Learned Friend' finding that he should be unable to rest his
imam of the Marquis IVellesley. Even among the people it was position on a firm basis, hal resorted to a mode in every respect
impossible to excite now shit unnatural outrage that had been for. imaginary, lie did not rest upon facts ; he did not come before
merly raised ot'a •• no paper cry. The mob could nut be moused the House with proofs of the difficulties which were to be spree- .
to such a seneeless client. They hail too much of liberality about Itended, but grounded his argument upon a possibility, rested his
them to be excited to the commonest outrage on that account at Gem upon a wog. Aud upon this case, these poseibilities and roc.
this time of day. It' he could believe that the people of Ergland tingesmics, It was proposed to the !louse tg suspend tha eigletaref -
entertained an hostility toward* -lielend, he ehonld think that he six mglions of men. (lime, 'falai.) Thisliottgla hint to an ar-
esould not commit a more wicked and niaellievous act than to teach gement of his lion, and Leanied Friend, who contended that the
a millions of men in Ireland, that 12 milhoes of men in England, proposed measures contemplated no encroachment on the privileges
their fellow-subjects, were their bitterest enemies. Next to of the country. 11• as it meant to be asserted that this new crenate-
theme causes of ;irritation which have forme' ly existed, but Lion of the ancient right-of popular meetings to express their gniev.
which now happily existed no longer, he could not conceive anew, was no encroachment on the liberties of the people, who
one that he should teed more surprise, mortiticatioo, and disgust at, held this right as one of their moat sacred inetitutioos? It this
if he were a Catholic, than that the twenty-fifth year of the Union were attempted to be supported, a greater absurdity, a greater con- ,
should have arrived, and that now, under an Irish Minister, of trwlietion in terms, could not exist ; it were denying that the whole
whom he could not speak in terms of too bight praise-under as is not equal to the part. Ihlty should they proceed thus further to
Irish Lard Lieutenant, who had always been friendly towards the encroach on the part? The Flintee mild conclude this inpovation
the ('atholics, and who had so often exerted his great talents in a most unwarrantable attack Ott the liberty of Ireland. To eeduce
their behalf-and under an Irish Attorney-Genera), of whom the the prerogative of die Cavan, to subvert tee power of the !louse of
bast that could be said of hint was, that lie was very superior to Lards, or to encroach on the constitutional authority of the Howie
any of' his predeceesors, with a plates:able mind, comprehensive of Commons, was illegal and unwarrantable, except on the wrong-
views, and nacre! opinions-the old stale game of Lupo:eta laws eat, the most inmerious necessity ; but even this he held to be less
and coercive statutes, predeely of the astute description as that, a atrociohts, less disastrous in its consequences, than to deprive a
series of which hai been presented to them through a long and an people of the right of meeting to discuss-its wrongs, and eigiviast
alarming vista, involving the empire its contention, out of which publicity; to a full exprewshott of its grievances. In speaking of the
arose committees, enactinents, and associations, the proceedings of Assoeinion, he felt that lie had two calves of oppotieuts- be used
which lea to no honour in victory, but produced great danger in the teem unqualified-the friends and enemies of Catholic Eman-
defeat. Be should with pleasure adopt the division of the subject ciliation. When the Bight lion. Seererary opposite declared that
laid down by the Honourable and ',earned Gentleman (Alr. Plum- the existence of this Association furrielied the etrungeet arguments
kett), who en all occasions was mint logical, but who, when he was against tile Catholic claim*, he should be told, he was using the
inclined to lie a little sophistical in debate, was in *be habit of in- strongest possible argument if/ favour of die Catholic .tesocietion,
traducing in his statement such a mixture of argument and fact, The Irish people would sic w with tetanal jealousy any treasures
that it was difficult to ac rate them. The Learned Gentleman hail of Parliament whittle mtemplated any innovation of their sacred
g
proposed a division of the subject under three heads: the fa was, righter-any attempt to disturb their legal possessions,. The House
whether this measure was an infraction of popular principles; se- would env led a ',stream! tedious inquiry, in the year 11123, irto thee
condly, whether it was against the Catholic cause; soul thirdly, if conduct of the serrate of Dublin. laid not his 11,ght lion. Friend
so. whether it would be dangerous to the empire. " Soprc ma Ilex think certain transactions connected with that inquiry might have
talus poprili" was a tyrant's Idea, and might lie made to apply to seeded enmething towards disturbing the conl(deoce which bed ex-
the wont pit:poses ; but, as far as regarded Ireland, coercive Inc.: latch ? The lion. el ember fur New 'toss had itheappreliended the
sures, such as the one that row met the etipport teed had been Ito- ohjectioas which had been orged. The evil compla nal of was a
floured by the eloquence of the Learned Gentleman, was the soh pervention of justice; and die proof was to be foetid in the tonna
ta. lie must dietenguisli beten.nc.n slit nee and recensity. Ile tuition M b mom nature. It was vain, indeed, for any Gentleman
did not mean to deny, that associations and co, entitles that bound to attempt to exert p any reels from the natural infirmities of men.
together the great masa of ciazens were extremely undesirable; tibiae, hear.) el'ilile•ihere were individuals shun so cordite:cat
but he would ask those who meant to answer him on thus measure, thentaehrca as to be highly ottlimble; he could not name a Meet"
if associations ever existed in a sound state ? (Cheer* from the trate who had so ably wit stool the difficulties by which lee had
Opposition.) When the Honourable Gentleman the ale:ober fur been eta-rounded as the Lord Clad Justice. He bat! exhibiad as
ikrey had given the !louse a bistro'. of Ireland, it was a history of inttepirlity, is calm resignation he *meld see., in a country distti-b•
Issociations, committee', and combinations; but he did not tell ed, such as seas of most rare °cells-Tenet, and worthy of general irm-
them that a long (entree of mattet to-antes on the pm of thelio. 'idiom. The lion. Member for New Ross hail ,aid the mer-bere
vernntent ead rotate:al tame associations. Etna if 'hey were me out the Aeecciation were the adopted representatives of the F.,,,,.. !,.

r
1

1
f

es

stmse
ii
ti
ti