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London, England, 1826-05-20 00:00:00

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but with tbie accompanying explanation, that Battlement would
take (envied mean. to eery those resolutions which had already
been vent to iota execution.
The evolution was then put. when
Mr. 1111,110 T HOICfON paid he hoped the House would
lieu him with indulgence. it was not his intention to enter into
all the details which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who had
bmoeht forward the question had gone into, neither was it his In.
tennis:l to contradict altogether the statements which that Ilen.
Gentleman had made—he would only put them in a different point
of ei.ar • he thought it was not necessary for that House to
pledge itself, as it wira called to do by the remhoion of tha
Boonerable and Learned lientletnen, when an explatiation had
been given that those .Iseemblin were called upon to agree
to the Trinidad Order. The question was not whether that
Order was complied with or not,lbut a bether that mode of proceed..
ieR was preferable to the summary mode of the Hon. Gentleman.
ofear, hear.) It would, in his view of the subject, appear fele°_
lons to require noels a pledge from the House. It haul been stated
that it was said no that wide of the House that the Assemblies were
cootumacious in not having complied with the Outer which was sent
pot by Osumi!. What had been said was, that they did not act
tip to the Order of Trinidad. but the reason they had not done so
ea, because they feared that those measures would destroy their
property He would not say whether or not that opinion was correct,
but he felt It necessary to says° much, when it was intimated that the
opposition. of those Assemblies emanated from an innate love of 'la.
very, and a decided disregard for the principles of liberty ; they
thought those mentors were calculated tiodeteriorate their pro.
peen; when they became more enlightened on that point, and were
disabused of that error, he would then look for improvement and a
relaxation of their opposition to three measures. With respect to
the admission of slave evidence, he thought what had been done
was useful—it gave them a moral character. In fact. the penmen of
the amelioration of the slaves in the Colonial Assemblies kept
pace with the advancement of opinion in this commit on the Pub.
feet; and with regent to the regulation of the Sunday market
it was thought dioulvantageous to allow the Sunday for that pur-
pose. without preparing the slaves for that arrangement by educa-
tion and religious instruction. If the evidence of slava against
their =satin was allowed—if they were permitted to denounce
their masters, that privilege for the slave would be calculated to
dissolve the tin which bound him to his owner, and must be
attended with serious inconvenience. In Demerara they had sub.
stantially enacted the Order of Trinidad. The Honourable and
Learned Gentleman had referred to the authority of the Duke
of Manchester; but that Noate Duke disapproved of the Sunday.
market. The Honourable Gentleman had also said that the manu•
mission clause was worth nothing; but he thought that the
clause should be recognized by all those who wished tb see the
(tole: of Trinidad carried into effect. In case of. bequest, if the
tali)* did not receive the slave he received an equivalent in money;
an in that respect he thought the principle of manumission was
adopted. It had also been advanced, that the the efforts which
were made to give religious inetrunion to the slaves arose oat of
• a tear of sectarianism. He would not depreciate the exertions of
the tecutrian Missionaries, but he would say that It was not extra.
ordinary that those persons in the Colonies should prefer religious
i.toruction through the medium of the Ministers of the Established
Church, from which the most salutary effects might be expected.
The conduct of the Assembly of Jamaica in that respect was en.
ti led, in his opinion, to commendation. Wfth respect to the
Evidence Bill, he had to observe, that the second contained va-
rious modification'', and the first had been thrown out only by a
minority of one; andlt was only fair to suppose that in time that
would grow into a majority. In 1825 Mr. Burk said, let there be
SD indemnification for those persons, and they will have no ob-
i:talon to a change. He stated this to show the animas which in-
fluenced the Cobenes. They say, " Purchase our island, and we
will allow your philanthropy full scope." lie did not defend that,
but he stated it to confirm his opinion that the Colonies
oppoeed those measure* because they thought them pre-
judicial to their propeetp. When they were disabused of
tint opinion they would not persevere In their opposition.
The Resolutions of the Colonial Legislatures indicated an opinion
on their part. that West India property wan in danger of being
affected by certain proceedings in this country. His object was to
persuade the House, that the Resolution of the Honourable
Member for Winchelsea was quite unnecessary. The Honourable
Member then went into a detail of the proceedings of the Colonial
Legislatures, for the purposeof showing that the conclusions of the
flonourable Gentleman were not correct, and that there did not
exist so contumacious a resistance on the part of those begirds-
tares to the wishes of Government as bad been represented. Ile
contended that many measures had been passed in the Colonies
for the purpose of ameliorating the condition of the slave pepula.
two. He did not mean to deny the accuracy of Honourable Gen.
Semen's statements t but he was prepared to state that a material
improvement had taken place in the situation of the slaves. With
'ven to a personal allusion which the Honourable Gentleman
red made to him, as an uncompromising supporter of the Were
India aide of the question, he must deny it; and ifauch a charge
could be supported, be wished to hear what lane there were to
maintain it. Me would give the Hon. Gentleman the benefit of
emery circumstance, even of any private or confidential conversation
wittch be had ever used, and if from any of these it could be
shown that he had even expressed a sentiment contrary to the
resolutions of Parliament, he would then submit to the impute-
non of the Honourable Member. He could not avoid remarking,
that insinuations, of that kind might operate very much to hie
prejudice, as the situation which he held required that be should
be !nee Groat any such charges.
lir. BROUGHAM said, that he only meant to say that the
Colonial department, of which the Honourable Member was to a
certain degree the representative, had more strenuously supported
the West India side of the question than other branches of his'
Majesty's Government, and in that opinion he thought he was
borne out by the sentiments expressed by the Honourable Gentle.
man, when the case of the Rev. Mr. Smith was before the House.
111 r. W. HORTON explained.
Doctor LUSH INGTON said that three years had passed since
the passing the Order in Council for improving the condition of the
slaves, and se pit nothing effectual had been done by the Colonists;
not one single Colony, having a Legislature of its own, had ever
supported the Bill for ameliorating the condition of the slaves.
If he were to judge from what had occurred ha another place,
some of the Cabinet Ministers entertained opinions widely differing
from those acted on In this House. (Hear, bear.) The expres-
sion of these opinions in the quarter to which he alluded, were cal.
clawed to uphold anti strengthen the Colonies in their resistance,
and protract to an indefinite period any useful results front the
comae it had been deemed advisable to adopt. .All the awe they
wished to impress tne Colonies with would thus be destroyed.
He did not refer to certain ancient opinions and prejudices now
considered as antiquated; but to an opportunity which was taken
so recently as two months ago, by a Noble and Learned Lord, to
Plitt his entire dissent from the very opinions which had been about
the same period expressed in this House by the Right Hon. Secre.
tary fur Foreign Affairs. The Noble Lord expressed himself
kindly, but strongly. If the Hon. Gentleman looked first
to the expression of the opinions to which he (Dr. Lush.
ington) referred, and then to those delivered in that House,
he would not be able fairly to complain that petitious had loaded
the table. The Right Honourable Secretary for Foreign Af-
fairs, said no one would be bold enough to deny that the spirit
of the Christian religion was hostile to slavery. These might not be
hie exact words, but it was the substance of what was said, for be
took a note of it at the time. Now, what was said elsewhere ? It
was declared " that a great deal had been said with respect to
the state of slavery, which was designated as contrary to the
genMs of the British Coestitudon and opposed to the spirit of reli.
mon. Now, the slave trade was fostered, encouraged, and almost in.
stituted by Lord Somers. Then, be would hesitate a long while be.
fore he ventured to say it was contrary to the spirit of the Christian
relignin„ for it had been supported by the Bishops for a considerable
period." %'.'ere not such sentiments as these, he would ask, coming
from such a quarter, calculated to increase the difficultiee Govern ment
had to encounter. and to uphold the Colonies in that contumacious
exiduct so much censured ? Thank God f there was more saw-
don than truth in the statements from that quarter. But there was
nothing to show that this infamous traffic was either encouraged or
approved of by Lord Somers; if it was, the authority of Lord
Somers afforded no proteccion to the principle. Suppose this traffic
was fostered by, or originated with, his Lordship, would it not
have been more creditable to have buried the fact, considering that
the question had not then undergone the discussions which threw
light upon it at the present day ? The Noble and Learned Lord's
speech went on to slate that slavery wu not contrary to the spirit of
theChristianreligion,because it had been encouraged by a Bench of
Bishops, who must have known what was and what was not op-
posed to the spirit of Christianity. Now, in opposition to tbis,
he would state what he believed to be the truth, and what was
highly to the honour of the Bishops of the Established Church—
namely. that they had lately been foremost in raising their
yokel against the trade. He would go further—he did not
think, amongst all the petitions presented to the House on this
question, that there was not one eiened by the parson of the pariah
nom which they might have proceeded. Ile spoke to this
panicularly, because he knew that till the principle was
omitted there would be nothing done; till it was acknowledged
that to enjoy the fruits of your own iniquity was contrary to every
principle of right and justice, no good would be effected. He con-
tended that all who haul presided over his Majesty's Councils for
years past were ievolved in this common crime. It had been said
he Imputed bad feelings to those resident in the (anionic.; but he
denied this. Though he declared openly his disapprobation of
this conduct, he would do them the justice to say, they had dime
no more than he or any other individuals might have done under
similar circumstances. They had shown no more repugnance to
the measures proposed than he probably would, if be had been
bred up in the same scene of contamination —if he had seen
slavery from his infancy. While he owned this, his Hon. Friends
behind him could not accuae him of doing them an injustice. He
ensured their faults, but ascribed to them no greater readiness to
fill into the iniquity of this traffic, than he himself, under the
circumstances, might raffibit. An invasion of property was one
ef the great objections to making any alteration, said his Hon.
Friends. It was to be regretted that, when great questions were
to be decided, this was to he done by abandoning the first princi-
ples of rectitude and honesty ; that they should seek to acquire
wealth without regard to the means. If loss should result, he had
sneer said this was to he borne exchoively by the %Vest India
bode. He did riot say that they had no right to come to the House'
and ask for relief, but he said their first duty was to chew a prompt
and ready obedience to the resolutions of this House, and the
Mattes of the country. Till they did that. they had no claim
and he thought also they could not ask for indeninitication
after they had shown every possible practical opposition to
these measures. It was the duty of the Noose to redress any
evils that might have obtained at the earlies( moment, consist-
ently with the interest of the slave himself. The grievance once
established, they had no right for a single hour to postpone so sat

of justice. He contended that all the experiments suggested for
the amelioration of the condition of the slave*, instead ~t. depreciat-
ing the property of the West Indians, would rake i: in valor and
place it on the basis of security. Tie measure, if carried, would
secure the ran:ions of the slaves, and put an end to their trequent
revolts. That revolts should have existed was not to be wondered
at, when they considered the 'flesh treatment the oppressively
severe laws and bloody punishments to which the slaves were sub-
jected. He knew the country would rather make any pecuniary fwd.
lice than that the measures proposed should not he carried into full
effect. Until the yearl773slaves were tolerated in Scotland, where per.
le were bound to serve for life in the coal mines. That occurred solately as in the reign of his late. Majesty George 1I I. Was it then
a hard say'ng to assert that years must roll on before the system of
amelioration could be carried to perfection in the West India
Colonies—to that extent of which its advocates might be desirous.
The Honourable Gemleinan then proceeded to give a summary ac-
count of the improvement which had taken place in the laws re-
specting the treatment of slaves during the last twenty years. In
reference to what had fallen from the Honourable Member foe
Dover, who had asserted that the Colonists were hostile to the
introduction of 3lissionarierr, he begged leave to differ, and
thought that the contrary opinion was fully established by the
mode in which the Wesleyan Missionaries had been received.
He was aware, and indeed he was sorry fur the fart, as it did
sot accord with the principle of charity on which it professed
to be founded, that there was a strong prejudice fomented against
those persons who intended to become candidates at the ensuing
election, and who had endeavoured to uphold the property which
had been obtained by the proprietors in the Colonies, no matter
how originally acquired—whether gotten by spots, by blot., or by
plots, did not signify, for it must now be considered as a vestal
right, and as such, the advocates to whom he alluded as suffering
the attacks of obloquy, were desirous. most just'', of protecting it
(torn spoliation. It was the duty of the Parliament to take care of
both parties (Hear), and Hon. Members acted in conformity
with their situation, who adhered to the principle of regarding
both »Lies. It was rosy for persons who had no wives or children
dependent on such property, to condemn the objections whichlmight
be urged against the proposed alterations, mad to divest themselves
of all fear for the consequences. (Hear.) But the case was very
different with him and with those who were siinSl rely circumstanced.
(Hear.) All that he would ask if' the British Parliament was, to
deal impartial justice to him, and to those who like him were situ-
ated so as to be necessarily obliged to look for subsistence to the
Colonies.

dl r. R. C. ELLIS thought that the motion before the House was
tither calculated to embarrass the Government than to assist the
measure by which it proposed to effectuate the benefit of the Co-
lonies. He wax not an indiscriminate admirer of the Colonist Le-
gislature, and was disposed to regret that there was such little
attention paid by them to the recommendations submitted to that
consideration by the Government of this country ; but still there
were some matters for which they were entitled to great praise. Ile
was sorry,indeed, that the ColonialLegislaturcs had not acted in the
full spirit of the suggestion which had been given to them respect-
ing the religious instruction of the slaves. Yet the Colonial pro-
prietors had received the Bishop cordially. The later of the Bishop
of Jamaica had been misconstrued, for he admitted that "every
thing had been done for the benefit of the Church." The Bishop
of Barbadoes also stated that he was received with every species of
respect and co-operation. The Hon. Member then adverted to the
unfair advantage which was attempted to be raised against candi.
dates for the next election, by imputing to them the reproach of
wishing to keep the minds as well as the bodies of the negroes
in slavery. He appealed to the Colonial Secretary. (111 r.
W. Horton), whether the Colonies did not concur in the
propriety of the recommendation suggested by the Gos era.
mut .of this country. In accordance with those feelings,
they had afforded great facility to the manumission of slaves.
The Hon. Gentleman then adverted to the improved state of the,
slave po_pulation, and the altered opinions of parties on this ques-
tion. Those who formerly opposed the slave trade never hinted
that they had the immediate abolition of the state of slavery in
view; but that principle was now broadly. hinted. He regretted
that Ministers though fit to adopt the principle of eompulsory abo-
lition, a principle which, in his (Mr. llie's) opinion, was calcu-
listed to defeat the desired object. The apprehension that this
principle was about to be acted upon, necessarily influenced the
master, and induced him to conceive that he consulted his own in-
terest by keeping the slave in a state of strict bondage. He was
aware that the power of the country was irraistible. but it must
be admitted that the Colonists, by omitting to do all that they were
not driven to do, could greatly embarrass this country, notwith-
standing its omnipotence. This was the opinion of Mr. Fox, who
had abolished the slave trade at one blow. That great Statesman
thought that any attempt to emancipate the slaves, without the
concurrence of their owners, would be not only mischievous but
im practicable.
111 r. BUTTERWORTH rose amidst cries of " Question !'•
and made a few observations which were not distinctly heard in the
gallery.
Mr. DENMAN thought it would be a matter of deep regret
if this important question was borne down without a fair hearing.
He was extremely glad that two Hon. Gentlemen, who were in.
timarely acquainted with the West Indies (Aleuts. }Miguel Ber-
nal), had been heard ; ttough he differed with those Hon. Gentle-
men on many points to which they had Adverted. As the masters
would not become the iustruments of the emancipation of their
slaves, he thought there wits no inconsistency In saying
that the Government &tumid take the matter in band, and
urge forward the planters. Twenty years ag Mr. Sheridan said
that slavery would never wear itself oat. This was the opinion
of that wan, of whose eloquence it was said that it was
" As brilliant, as deep, and as rapid a tide,
As ever bore freedom aloft on its wave."
Could it be wrong, then, for Parliament to declare that it was
determined to exercise a control over the colonists, in the event
of their continued contumacy? Such a declaration, he con-
tended, could not be productive of injury. The Honourable
and Learned Gentleman then read the declaration of the
people of Hayti, in which they asserted their independence, and
then asked whether people capable of making such a declaration
were to he represented as creatures naturally inferior to others of a
different complexion, and whether they were to be held forth as
persons incapable of enjoying freedom? Such, however, had been
the language of many in this country, and who declared that the
negroes had received a blot from the hand of God, which rendered
them naturally incompetent to participate in the rights of civilized
man. If such were so, then let the resolution of his lion. and
Learned Friend be rescinded, as utterly useless and inapplicable to
the condition of those persons for whose benefit it was intended to
operate.
Mr. Secretary CANNING—The Honourable and Learned
Gentleman had brought the question before the House precisely to
that point to which he (Mr. Canning) was desirous of bringing it ;
that point upon which the House was called upon to give its vote
and to decide, which was, whether the resolution proposed for their
adoption was necessary, and whether it would be useful fir that
purpose, which I.e must assume to be the purpose of the Rouse.
The first part of the resolution contained a proposition to which he
had not sny difficulty abttractedly to issent ; but the question for
the House to decide was, whether the passing of sash a resolution
was necessary, and if not, whether it would be useful or detri.
mental to the cause in which the House was already embarked P
He would lay out of his consideration every other part of the
speech of the Honourable and Learned Gentlenum,• because he
thought it had been already determined by the House. that the
country sad the Government should proceed in this great measure
u far as possible by conciliation and reconciliation, but the topic*
of the speech of the lion. and Learned Gentleman were rather
calculated to carry the measure by force and by terror. (Hear.)
The House was bound to look at the subject coolly and deliberately,
and whatever might be the modifications of all their measures, they
must take care in the knit instance to purge those principles from
their extravagance, if they expected to he listened to by men to
whom they looked for co-operation, and who imagined that eman-
cipation would lead to their immediate destruction. It was cot true
that the Christian religion proscribed slavery with that unsparing
effect which left no choice as to the made of correcting the
evil. It was not true that the British Constitution proscribed
slavery so as to prevent those who had to administer its laws
from deliberating as to the best means of getting rid of (be ac-
knowledges!) this moral evil. These were the qualifications
which he always thought it right to inane when arguing
this question. But they must not infer that because Christianity
and the British Constitution had fostered this moral pest, they were
now, though all concurred in looking at It with equal abhorrence,
to suffer it to continue and fiouttsli. He hoped be had shown that
there existed a sincere disposition on the part of Government to
carry on the system which Parliament had determined upon ;
and it was only because he did not like to use any thing
like the language of menace that he did not repeat the determined
resolution of Government, that if, contrary to their hopes and ex.
pectations, they should meet with any thing like a contumelious
resistance, they would come to Parliament and require the right to
exercise that power which the British Constitution, in proportion
to its liberty, could afford to grant for the purpose of enabling Go.
vanment to carry Into effect its wholesome and holy determina-
tion. (Cheers.)
Sir T.ACLA ND said that he thought it better that the question
should be left in the hands of Ministers, and he would therefore
move the previous question.
Mr. iIhOUGHANI, in reply, said that the motion only pledged
the House to take the question into tbeir most serious consideranou,
and not to pursue any particular line of conduct.
The gallery was then cleared for a division, when there appeared,
—For the motion, 38; against it, 100; majority against the
motion, 62. _

The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at Foote o'CLocx, until Friday next.

The following is an extract of a letter Horn the Agent to
Lloyd's at Constantinople, dated let April :—" I have re-
ceived advices from Smyrna of the 23d and 25th March,
stating that in consequence of the danger in the Arches,
Captain Hamilton had promised convoy to the vessels
through that sea, and Captain Curtis, who sailed in the
Medina this morning, told me they were to be granted once
a month. The Maria and Sultan would consequently en-
joy this advantage, as they were both nearly ready. To
this I have the pleasure to add, that at my request the
Medina takes the four following vessels, viz. Frances Er-
nest, Strenshall, Severn, and Elizabeth, under her protec-
tion. More than 200 vessels have arrived with the south-
erly winds, and the accounts they bring of piracy and rob-
bery by the Greeks are quite lamentable; however, our
gag continues to escape better than any other."