The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1808-05-17 00:00:00

lllvie

ever, he had to observe, teemed never to be of
any consequence, as it generally happened, when
the iglu:uses were to be defrayed by toe public
purse—the frequency of which was one cf the ne-
cessary calamities of a country removed to a marl-
derable distance from the seat of power.
Sir ARTHUR. ‘VEI.I.C.3I.EIt said, his auraisvre had,
scarcely any reference to the ballot, aud reittired
the immediate attention of the House.
Mr. WIN DUM4 disclaim :Al all ►nerits iinfinted to
him for the introduction of the Militia V otuateer
MU last year. lie had nothing to doµ th it ; but
had merely, in the execution of hi, oiiii.i.d titi,
followed that up which had hem put in tram by Ins
predecessor.
The Bill was then read, and drilered to be printed.
Mr. WHARTON brought up the report of the
Committee on the duties on copper ; and on the
motion of Mr. Itusc, leave war given to bring iu a
Bill accordingly.
_ _

It Is a

mn. PALMER.
Mr. WHARTON also brought up the report of the
Committee on Mr. Palmer's applications for remu-
neration fortis services.
Mr. Bets Kee rose to assure the House he felt he
should not discharge the ditty he owed the country.
should he sutler the present application to pass
without its comment. lie was s Luse; cd t;:at it was
unjustifiable, and nothing could ha. e induced the
House so fur to have supported ii, hut the sur-
prise in which it bud foam! the most part of the
Members. He applauded the conduct of His
Majesty's Ministers, and profs:mei he thought it
was their duty to dimaiirasse, is prieripias such ap-
plications to Parliament. It was at least a part of
the prerogative of the Crown to prohibit such
grants by a veto to au application for leave to dis-
cuss the merits ; and certainly the Ministry should
assist the Crown in this as in most other of its du-
ties. It was not singular the report was such astlutt
before the House, since the active persons on this
Committee were particular friends of Mr. Palmer.
The present report had far exceeded that of a former
date • nor could the allegation of the preseut be jus-
tified beresortieg to that of the former. As far
as Mr. Pith's evidence went, andmone could accuse
him of waist of liberality in the public service, there
appeared no pla'm or distinct ground for the present
liana ; nor would it he fair either to give i int:heir cre-
dence to every thing stated by the Cientlemsn in his
own defence; thoogle as far as related to his own
eriminatioa, his own evidence was directly against
Isiah and louts, be decisive with the House.—
The argument so strongly urged, ae imperative on
the country, was one said to be verbally made be-
tween two persons, one of whom the country had
to laineet the tries of; while the other was a person
on whose testimony there should be placed no reit-
. ant+. Any evidence adduced to prove this agree-
ment, he conceived weak and unsatisfactory ;
way, he thought the applicant's evidence proved
the reverse of the inference be should be glad
to draw from it. In vain had be endeavoured
to divide the salary and the per tentage. They
were intimately united, mod .both dependent
on his combo Mugu, assist tits country. It would be
thought rat he r • singular resolution to 'mine to, that,
though there had men much malversation is offices
a baegain was a bargain, and no conduct of one
party sit sold empower the other to break it. The
application Caine, it should also be recollected, at
a dregolie iieswid, near fourteen years after his
removal front his situation, though it MIS true
es application had, iii that interval of time,
been made, which had been unsucceesfel, partly
through the. represeatatious of a man who was
act only the eldest Minister, but also the fittest
rerson to deenle on the propriety of the vote.
there was sotnethine more than buspicinn attach-
ing to Mr. Peter: before his suseeesnet. It would
be found, on reference to ter evidence that Mr.
Palmer load • been eu-leavouring to throw the busi-
ness of the Mice into coufusiose by the late deli-
Veer of letters and other irregularities. It was not
only the right, but the duty of the House, to con-
sider the whole ease. It was not bound by lily en-
gweement, but was perfectly free to discuss the,
title of the party to the enormous compensation
which he elaimest. It was not a 11111 SN of justice or
e.inity, but one iu which it wit perfectly at the
discretioa of the House to give or nut to give, as it
should think proper. Ile •dia not approve of the
coliclect of the Committee. They advanced many
things in favour of Mr. Palmer, but nothing
against lain. After dwelling upon his integrity,
they ad.!. thit a prodigious increese of expense
had occurred immediately after hi, removal ; hut
they did not inquire in what this originated,
and whether the increase would not have hap-
pened, although he should have enatinuect in
office? In any or lmary case would soy one
think of teaming a specific remuneration noon
the vane an-I unsatisfactory erounds sallezed
in support of the preseut chain ? No. llud
the Committee exuunised, the iiierense of ex-
pense might have been traced, upon to
some cause tetally diiierent from the waist of
Mr. Palmer's stieerintending care; and as in the
inereese of reveline, of which they gave ben the
whole merit, it was only whet might be eepecte,l
fret the increase of commerce, am: the proerce-
eivry extending relations blila activity in the
mercantile world. Where so many olivions
causes presented themselves, it was mensi rem
to attribute the whole of the increase t., Mr
Palmer's management and yieemice. lie the ogle
it therefore impossible that the llnn,c shmild pro
coed upon the principles 1,4'1'1 down is the teem.
Mr. Palmer, he admitted
see ail leeful serve:
but there were many oilier eirctenstanc s to
taken into consideration, before it v oeld a -
such an extravagunt and tinge-a:Med deleted,
lieu:arty in a case where there was it
trig upon the public.. Cutler such &lieu:west
he hoped that the House would proce ',lse
rat principles, but he deprecated, their septic
in estravagant demands.
Mr. WINDHAM said, there was one 'ileum
which he wished to guard against, an,: •
Some Cretlemen had Like's it into
that this is a party cpiestion, a eery
deed he thought fur Ministers to
would have been perfectly ridicule'',
his friends to make it a party %mete, ,; en Is
deed of party was there in it, that h.- seine
to the Hense by mere accident, v. eet ke
how those Gentlemen, with when he e ss i
Latlt of acting, were likely to vote, ur having him

%lir('

self any °Aims at ail Upon. tl:e 604,0. Any
thing then more clear from hi; itica of it party 111.!3
sure aenever knew. hit tie ineiviurr tiad been
already discussed, and litivinl received the sanction
of a majority u that Boise, a majority b.l Loge in
number, and such a composition, he thought a
much stranger case miist lie made out, Liefure the
House could be railed upon to reverse the opinion
which it had already girea. ( Hear ! Hear!/
This WWI all lie tlina•.;ht net—wavy to say, for
those who i..fre present at the limner elevate;
but fur thaw who hat been absent, he proposed
to recapitulate 'the nr:7ltineiits. The question
had beea debated upau two grounds--tst, nu
the footing of a It.irgsi.i ; aced secondly, upon
its independent of any stipulation or preys-
One it4recaseut. TilLie ten grounds, it would be
ohs,,rved, were directly c.ritritry ; and the latter,
if foufided in fact, would destroy the former—but
that was not the ease, for, in his opinion, there was
a bareat.i. It tippea;eil to him that the ljentle-
Inca who o moa-I the iimeZion, set out with ad-
mitting u ti irgain, and then the only question to
consider was, how far diet bac; tin was Set Wilde by
matter .e.ieliteitt ? It was said, anti admitted,
that soiref•lii•ig sholi!d be given to Mr. Palmer, as
coin;ien.itiiiii for his ser:ices, and there was be-
sides a oargaio of •21, per centar on the savings; of
all toe modes of • o.ll:venfration ever know:4 this
was perhaps the most uneKeeptionable. In any
case of siseeidation, its any uew plan or experiment,
where the mode of reward becomes the subject of
arrangement, a ; enariii would, in every instance,
give the preference to a payment upon the protits.
It is a proposition by which a inan may win, but can
lose nothing. The erceeetor has nothing for his
labour, unless his like succeeds, and therefore it is
the most just and fair mode of remuneration that
can be conceived, and the best and safest sort
of bargain. These circumstances being admitted,
the next thing to be considered was the interpre-
tation of the bargain; and here the evidence stated,
that the compensation consisted of two parts, one
for service, amd the other for salary ; but it is ob-
jected that it does not specify with rufficietit clear-
ness how much for the one, and bow much for the
other. For his part, he saw no difficulty in the
case. The 1,5001. a year was evidently as salary,
and the per centage for remuneration for the bene-
fit arising from the management to the public.--
If, however, the compensation was not defiued with
sufficient explicitness, that was no reason why it
should be refused if the right was apparent. Take
the case of wilts, for instance, there was nothing
more uncommon than for a Court of Justice to give
a party an interest under a will different from
that which was in contemplation of the testator,
merely' because the technical words conveyed
that particular interest, and not the one more
obviously intended by the Testator. There was
nothing, then, to exclude the House from entertain-
ing the die whole qnestioii, or that could overrule
the claim of Mr. Palmer. The per centage was
given to him absolutely. lie had his option of it
long before any other reward was thought of, and
the plain sense of the bargain must overhear every
thing else. That plain sense was, that Mr. Palmer
should have so much for salary, and so mach for
service ; the latter being a per centage of two and
a half. But it was said, that Mr. Palmer had
iniseonducted himself, and it therefore became a
question how much he should forfeit. '1 here
was no difficulty here. la his opinion he should be
considered as hawing forfeited the salary of £l5OO.
Mr. Windham next proceeded to complain, that a
run had been origually made against Mr. Palmer,
by the publicutiou of confidentiel letters, and other
means to excite a prejudice against him, and he
was astonished to hear it contended, that be bad
relinquished his claim by any offer which he might
have made in such a situation, as a roan under
such circumstances must be glad to take any thing
he conid get, without any reference to the magni-
tude or extrat of his right. The question now is.
in what proivortion is Mr. Palmer entitled to corn-
pensatis., I ,f Upon that point," said filr.Winilhaut,
" I do ant think be ought to abate one jot of that
eugageel to him beyond the £ two s-year. In
justice I say that ; and I uext say that it is unfair
to attempt to make him accept so much short of
what they would have been originally glad to pay."
The arguments against the claim, Mr. Windham.
is continuation, said, were founded upon the most
unworthy and discreditable principles; for, if the
II per tentage was now to be called in questiou,
it would be, in fact, to make a new bargain. The
advice Rivets to the Chancellor of the Exchequer
by the Right Honourable Gentleman was the
strangest that he had ever heard. That the House
of Com.nons should be debarred from fulfilling its
enzagetnent, and that wheie a man felt himself
injured, and applied for redress, it was the duty of
Ministers to preclude all appli.:et.on upon the sub-
ject, was contrary to every idea awl principle he
had ever eutertaiitcd. In the pri:sciit case, how-
ever, the advice was prepo-tarsus, time Chancellor
had not precluded the application. The question
had alretely conic befory the ilatise of Coinnions.
—lt had cone before an impartial House, and
received a full dehheration. The Committee, of
whose celiduct the ltie!it I ton. Gent. (Mr. Betakes)
colaphineri, might be wrote'', het they could not be
suspected of having acted from prejudice. Mr.
Pa:ine; surely could not he supposed to be able to
intlivince the House of (20i11111011S, and that in op-
position to the Nliaister. as to the ohiection to
the claim on the ground of long standing, there
we.; a feoceileat in the Duke of Athol's case; of
ivh;cll, tlioneh he did not approve the merits, yet
the &iicetiaiii net hating been admitted ii. that case,
lie did not see with what propriety it could be urged
against the preient claim. Upon the whole, then,
it del aporar to hint, that the Geittleinini opposite
had not au Mehl of ground to stand upon, or even a
plausible pretence to refuse the executiou of the

barzai.i.
.Ir. Ppt.r.Eß defended the pretensions of Mr.
Palm .r, thoag6 he thought the elognence of the
Ij4. Member had nothing to do with the gnestion.
11,• art-A his riot** and gone fiiend hail not
ria the probability of Mr. Palmer's so far
.• a 3.1, when he perceih.•d the immense
o he wit., likely to receive by his invention, he
he Inv( gone to far, and, 'wing frightened,
retrai•terl. The letters were not written for the
~,o,he eye ; a.rl were it not for the villainy of a
fellow who, like Judas Iscariot, hail hetrwveil him
for lucre, they would never have Leen exhibited,

kitgliiv.l-s-In rattle h'4 beets deprived
of toe right* app.:far:o has. sot item this view
of its: tnecits, he should implied she cans ttu-
utglit, as he had thaw trefote: judging it
just to act always lb coaforthay•to ties wed%,,
netailit of Hoiacese-.4 Non inkr filue.l,-(l.A.nd
isughtsiz)—:u.• hatter antiet:s."--(!Jana., taitsk-
fur and :jeer) sas c.asfusion.) .
Mr. Ouse ,aid, it was the duty of His Itlaj,:sty',
Ministers, ebute ali ethers, to preveut the waste
ur luvishiuent of the pa:ille funds. lie wished hot
only to warn the against voting an enormous
sow iinprovidently for the public, bait also against
remunerating an officer for the grossest :I ..1 1110 st
disgraceful liegteet and atinin.• of olfirisi situation.
The duties of his situation us Comptamiler-General
of the Post-Office accouuts, though specified by
tlic terats of the warrant, ill% e4CIUg lIILU With that
si-
tuatinu, 11441 been totally ne4lected, and the whole
syetctu of the office overturned, ur heedlessly van-
hated. lie couridered the House boned to support
the former deterinittatitm of Parliament, in the ye ar
179 u, when the circurnstaotes and facts were more
recent and better knots u; and Mr. Pitt, the
foamier of the bargain, was himself present, net
winch occasion there iv as a di t isiuu aguiust the grant
of I la to 23.
WURTI.ZY Rai decidedly of opinion a bar-
gain had been made, and that the bargniu still re-
mained in full force and cogency : but could not
see how the salary ana the per rent. allowuuee
could be separated, particularly es conueetca by
the terms of the evidence before the House, inertly
ou the ground of remuneration, not for his former
exertions, but for the continuance- of his aosistaaoe
in beuelitting the public. This duty, it was evi-
dent by his letters, he was unfit to perform, and
hence with justice lie was displaced from his situa-
tion. and of course from the emoluments via:wip-
ing by the terms of the agreement to the situation.
Ile thought it necessary to say thus muds in
defence of his conduct iu voting against the claim
this night, for which he had through ignorance of
the evidence voted the night before.
Sir T. Tearox professed himself incapable of
being influenced by those motives %Inch perhaps
had made the last Honourable Member a prose-
lyte. He had been surprised at the statement of
the Chairman of the Committee of Finance. Ex-
cept he made more clear statementreon the public
finance than those he had made as to the merits of
the application of an individual of singsilar inge-
nuity and merit, he much feared the House would
derive little profit from the labour of thet-Com-
mittee. 'flied been said, that the House had been
taken by surprise, though the notice bad been
before the House for six weeks. The per tentage
and 15001. per amused had been given hint in lieu
(tithe original agreement. and hence, when he was
deprived of the emoluments of the secoud agree-
ment, perforce, he had therefore a just right to me
turn to the origival agreement. These consider-
ations had their weight pith the Committee, and
the report had been drawn out fairly, and all pro-
per deduction made from the oriental claim of Mr.
Palmer, presented tothis House, andattended with
a recommendation of his claint. which could only be
cousidered as a just discharge. of the duty they
owed to the merits of an injured individual, and
the character of the country.
Mr. Loma stated, that the Committee had put
very few questions Lo bim. He thotight he could
haveliveu them considerable information, but in
the situation be was placed as a witness, he mold
not illustrate, he could only give answers to the
several quiritious suggested to lain. V% lien he
stated to 'the Committee, that Mr. Palmer had a
right to expect tentage, he gave the evidence from
a conversation with hie ever-lamented fiietal, Mr.
Pitt. But it never was his iteration, that the Com-
mittee should conceive that the restage should last
longer than Mr. Painter held the office.
Lord DIILTON was surprised at the inconsisten-
cies of the Gentlemen on the opposite side,
for instead of arguing on the hargaia, which they
all adMit, they dew to the misconduct of Mr. Pal-
mer while in office. The impropriety of Mr. Pal-
mer's conduct in office he was not a supporter of,
bat he would submit that the conduct in office bad
not any thing to do with the original bargain, and
ought not to interfere with the present question.
Why did they not meet it when it was before the
House for the first time, and put a stamp on it ?
That would shrew the public Mr. Palmer had no
cluitn ; but instead of doing so, they gave it a half
assent, a half dissent, :aid at last threw it by and
got rid of it, by moving the previous question.—
If they had put their stamp of disapprobatiou on it,
he was assured Mr. Palmer would never have
urged his claim further. There had bsen a vast
deal of obloquy thrown on the report of the Com-
mittee; he saw no argument adduced to warrant
it. He believed the Committee consisted of as
honourable and as good men, withont exception,
as the House could produce. He could not pass
over the subject without saying, that the Cots-
mittee bad been hardly used.
Mr. S. Bowes • observed, it was said that this
was not a party question, but it was singular that
all those persons opposed to Ministers did on a for-
mer eight vote in favour of Mr. Palmer. These
were the Gentlemen who boasted of being the ad-
vocates of public economy, and were now willing
to lavish away thotetauds of the public money on
a private individual. Ile did not wish to say any
thing derogatory or hurtful to the feelings of the
Committee; but a Committee who had such letters
as they had in evidence, and could report there was
not a particle of blame to be attached to Mr. Pal-
mer, and that after a decision, where there was a
majority of moo against the claim, he could sot
commend. The evidence that was given before
the former Committee he would not go into, for he
thought the result of the House of Commons,
when it came before them, gave it a sufficient
stamp, and proved that Mr. Penner could have no
claim.
Sir Faexcts Bums:err confessed, all he had
heard in opposition to Mr. Palmer's claim, that
night, had only strengthened him in favour of the
grant. When he looked at the benefit that had
aceruesl to the public, and the smallness of the sum
asked, lie felt astonished that Ministers should he-
sitate one moment. Ile would be happy if they
experienced the same kind of uneasinessais other
occasions, and felt the same qualms when they
were lavishing the public money on worthless db-
jects. Sometimes they said it was a bargain, at