The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1805-06-21 00:00:00

PROSECUTION OF LORD MELVILLE.

Mr. BOND said he rose to ask a question of the
Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Whitbread)
which might prevent his making a Motion upon the .
subject. He wished to be informed, whether it was
the intention of the Hon. Gentleman to exclude any
of the matters contained in the two Reports relative
to Lord Melville, in the prosecution directed to be
brought by the Attorney General against that
Noble Lord ; he thought that part of the Report
relating to the 40,0001. should be excluded ; he also
wished to know, whether it was his intention to ex-
clude the case of Mr. Jellico, which he considered not
of sufficient importance to be prosecuted ; but as the
Hon. Gentleman had said it was his intention to
make this a subjed of prosecution ; he wished some
intimation might be given to the Attorney General
upon that subjea.
Mr WHITBREAD said, he considered the case
of Mr. Jellico of very great importance, fur which
reason he hat mentioned it to the House, and al-
though it made a very great impression on his mind
but not on the House, he did not mean to press it,
it was not his wish; as an humble individual, he could
speak only for himself, but the opinion 4 I
other Members of much greater consequence was to
be considered
The ATTORNEY GENERAL said, it was
with very great reluflance he troubled the House
upon this question, but there was a sort of constitu-
tional j-alousy in one servant of the crown prosecut-
ing another, and he had not been able sufficiently to
collect the sentiments of the House with respect to
what parts of the Report the prosecution was to be
grounded upon. It would have been much more
satisfactory to him, anJ more becoming the ho-
nour and dignity of the House fur them to ipe-
cify what particular parts of the Reports he was
to proceed upon, and not to leave the whole
of the Reports for him to collea Bum them
such parts as lie should think necessary. In the
civil prosecution against Mr. Trotter and Lord
Melville, a very considerable formal difficulty
arose ; he, therefore, would apply for liberty to
bring Mr. Trotter as a witness against Viscount
Melville, and to give in evidence the words spoken
by his Lordship on the floor of that House. In
considering this subjed, it brought to his mind the
great inconvenience which arose from the mode at
present in practice, rather than the old practice of
addresling His Majesty to direct his Attorney Ge-
neral to prosecute. If an address had been pre-
sented, he would then have a communication with
the Chancellor of the Exchequer; a message would
come down from the Lords, and the House would
consider what points they would proceed upon, and
thus the difficulty and inconvenience would not arise.
He thought the present occasion particularly called
upon him to make these observations, and he hoped
the House would condescend to give him their in-
, strnetions upon the subjed.
, I Mr. BOND said, though not strialy regular, he
begged to intimate to the House, that as His Ma.
jesty's Attorney General felt himself not sufficiently
inst: uded, he would make a motion for that pur-
pose With resped to the legal diffi..ulties, he left
them for the consideration of Gentlemen more com-
petent to decide upon.
Mr. WHITURE.AD hoped the House would put

the Right Honourable end Learned Gent!matt out
of all difficulty, in order that substantial justice
might be done between the public and Lord Mel-
ville ; for his own part, he tithed the
against Mr. Trotter might be suspende,
Attorne.y General might avail himself
tleman's testimony ; he would even propose
him a bill of indemnity, to make him -
witness, so that the whole of the hush
the Navy Pay Office might be fully disc.
Mr. pirr thought it a very extraordinary
to leave it to the officer of the public
the whole matter or the Tenth Report,
cifying the particular parts. The I
say, either negatively or affirmatively,
to include, or what he was not to in(
what manner he could best execute .
was strongly impressed on his mind that
should be reconsidered: he declared hims
to both modes; and the more he considered
more he was convinced that there was no ground
for either. It was a general constitutional
deration, in which a Peer of the Realm, -
the first officers of the Crown, was ins
sense of the House should be fairly and
taken upon it. Under all the circumstai
not think it by any means a proper mode,
the house would deliberate upon what
consattuti•eral method.
Mr. FOX said, that the House
ordered the Attorney General to proceed
cases, and the responsibility was
upon him to ascertain what were ,
grounds of charge, and it was most
lie should he responsible ; but what w
question ? that of impeachment; we
lett out, and others introduced, and
house was brought into this disgrace
lous predicament. The gentlemen
side had aJmitted, no question had
liberately and properly discussed,
wished they had expressed it by their
Attorney General, he insetted, was 1:1(
nature of his office, to take upon hi
tion or the papers. If this objection
mitred in future, the same objection
brought in all cases of the same nat
Mr. SHERIDAN considered it
rents thing, that an address was to _
His Majesty, for his Attorney General
Suppose he was ordered to prosecute
of the Exchequer, was he to go to '
tion bow he was to proceed against
Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. F
that the first mode proposed was objeCtioreble,
then he proposes one still more objectionable •
ever, lie secured one point, that if one
strong enough to carry the first poir
to foresee that the worst mode of proceeding
then take place, and so he has at last '
Mr. CANNING thought it worth;
tion of the House, and a great constitutia
lion, whether a man was to be tried is-
not ?

Mr. HARRISON never knew, ... prosec
tion of this nature was absolutely commanded, "
His Majesty's Attorney-Ccnctal should -
House for institiftiens : he should be
a properly. an it was unbecoming
to the House in such a manner; i
to know the points he would be
Upon the whole, it appeared to hi
nor less than a plan to evade publi
could by no means Innk at it in an
The AT FORNEY GENERA.
was a very unfair construftion to
' daft of ti.e servant of the crown,
execute the commands of the Mom
asking its directions.
Mr. BANKS supported the

the House.
Mr. ROSE had looked into all
upon the snbje& but this was the
limy one he had ever met with.
After a few wor.ls between Mr.
Bu n u, the latter gentleman gave notice
bring forward a Motion on this subi'
next.

STATE OF THE. NT%
Mr. GREY—" I ri e, Sir, if,
former notice, to call the attention
the present critical and alarming
try ; and apprehend, that in doing
other apology than the circumsunci
Empire is on all sides surrounded.
home, to the state of our finances;
the sitnation in which we are placed,
foreign conneEtions and alliances'
state of our navy and of cur arm
must be convinced that they cal
solicitude, and the fullest exercise
and our prudence. To embrace
whole scope of the important cii c,
would require more extraordinary ..
to the share of any in lividual Member
and it was only by a just tense of ,"
tion, that I was ia,:nced to enter
Two years have a or elapse d sine(
ment of the war in which we are
handed against France, after a shot.'
unavailing interval of peace. The
in this extensive field presents
point of view, is the state of our
OR that subjal I do not medal t.
night, as there are so many other
have necessarily to allude, and the n
qf do I feel myselt the more disposed
in consequence of a practice V;),'
here some years, and which I
discontinued, for a Right Honour,
mine (Mr. Tierney) bringing foi -
close of the session, to take a gs
hensive review of tne whole au,
When the war commenced, we ..
ation of the counety was so flour
may go on with it to this time v
any more expence, than what
be sufficient to cover. I own
that statement, I received it
and that I was justified in doing
evinced, for in the first year, a considerable
was made to the permanent debt `
and the Minister band himself cot
three loans to the amount of .0,0(X),
When we replied, Sir, that no less
were expended in the last year, and,
of our expences being less in the
be sensible of ate great neccaity

, . • teen
11111,11111111111Prir-7 ',.. • " '. - 're a, :
Gendenian out e etenottly in the adralnistra elf gnaw, re, tee Ur
Isuntial justice consider seriously whether I prellent or eie far sr/
lnd Lord Mel- 1 pedient to pursue this war , rther, if peace topes
. the civil suit could be obtained on an terms. Ts e/er!
!tided, that the these coeuiderations mist that of edit. 1.11191
If of that Gen. tional permaaentcharges tot 01573,1/00,11(Xl. mot
propose to give ter annum, though we were flattered that any a!d- people
m a comee:ent tional expends incurred would be rapidly made ur heave'
loess respelling by the operations of the Sinking Fund. Suppeing queer
disclosed. even the war to be at an end to-morrow, we stn as it !
aordinary mode never expect to come out of it without a grca eine;r
:to colledl from additional peace establishment, all of which waled weak!
it, without she- rah, the permanent taxes of the nation to the ewe- Teem
: House should mous RUM of 50,000.0001- a year. The nest man of °l'
ly, what he was jest to be adverted to, is to enquire how far any an& serve
incluta and in what improvement has benmale in our rri it. ey serif
le the trust. It force in the course of the last year ?Idoan F , I le.,
that this subjn fess myself to he sufficiently prepared to go into are loih
himself adverse minute investigation of this question, and the ere 7 `',- of tl
onsidered it, the sity for doing so is in a great measure reinoted k• sent
was no ground the notice given of a motion on that subject, by be re
eitutionel consi- an Hon. Member (Colonel Craufurd) who is ptcr. coral'
aim, and one of liarly qualified for such investigation, as web iron, of th
s involved ; the his known ability as from his professional vein,- ton
and deliberately vice in that department. I fancy there is no Tr,;:, t .:t,fl
moaners, he did will now contend, that there was not in the ter eel'
node, and hoped year a very great necessity for improvement iu r• that
hat was the most military system, as it was not (int,- aeknosletlyeill sine
but strongly insisted on by the Right Hon. (Gut, of lt
• had frequently ( Mr. Pitt) himself, in the course of the lest Smiler, son
roceed in similar ant furnished him a ground of eeerretc i 11p4nIC try,
always thrown his predecessors in office. After thus a-a:tinting the tior.
e the particular necessity, the mein question will b , has any inn ire,
lost proper that provement taken place? or, supposing there had, r, y
t was the specific is it an improvement at all carrespoading with a - pie
words were then avowed necessities of the country.? lam indnia To
I thus it was the willing to confess, that there was a consideraiie L,)
ceful aid ridicut- amendment in the measure, for enabling the miala ete
as on the other to volunteer their services in the regulars. Tes pee
el been more de- plea could not have failed of producine ve-- nu
he could have beneficial effects, or was at least confidratl; e• vat
heir votes. The pccted to have done on It added to the a • tie
bound from the pline of the army and to the driveable force ; t 4if
himself the selec- no one would contend, Met it gave us any re. ire
on was to be ad- ditional force in point of numbers, as thrsarne an i.l
eraion would be would at all events have been available for ou- is in
ature. terns' defence. Bat when we come to cone sr:
: a most preposte- this improvement to the foriniclabl • and gime. th
be presented to state of the enemy, who are actively ernplose• r,
ieral to prosecute. armaments for the annayaace of nue distant l• te
ite the Chancellor tories, while we are ourselves obliged to fit cc- It.
him for informa. peditions, not to attack them hut to defend icir . tf
tinst him ? The possessions ; the improvement can never be : tl
dr. Pitt) had said dered as sufficient, unless means be als i fin n
thjedtionable, and facilitate the regular tecruiting. In other vies ' e
jeftionable ; how- the question, the House could find nothing • I
one party was not solatory in the information ; that during the : s
int, he did not fail six months no mote than font thousand in I
proceeding would have been raised for the regular service, an . I
set blundered it. that, including the casualties by death or - s
thy the considera- sertion at home, our military force is at present 77 l'
nstitutional ques- men less than they were by the returns aft he ill ... )
ed by his Peers or year—a consideration of the highest and deepest •• • I
prance to Mote persons charged with tke admin.. 1
, when a proseen- tration of the public affairs. It no more has been
commanded, that fetaed in the Military department, lam sorry to a
hould apply to the tit.st there appears nothing more satisfeetory in et
be able to prepare 1 contemplation of what has been done in regard
ig et him to come I the grand bulwark and main pillar i our fierily
; it was his duty defence; I mean in the situation of be navy.
se able to prove. find that the number of sh•pi of the line in comes
him nothing more lion was tie in the last year, and in thisyeer ti
lie justice, and he are 91, being only an addition of three ships in
ty favourable light. space of twelve months. The frigates she L-
AI. replied, tha: it pace with the hoe of battle slips, and had rely
put upon the con- perienced an increase of seven. The nniries
1, endeavouring to seamen voted also in the lest year seas Mean a•
louse when Itumely it does not appear thin any more have been re.
in the pre scat year. I aJmit the: an addition I-
mode adoptcd by been mask in sloops and gan-hunts in t
service, but that can appear no way vinare
ill the precedents able when compared with the almost iticrin :,
he most extreorai- number of vessels of a similar descrietion cit-
ed in the various ports of the enemy, •i
Mr. Purr and Mr. against which they may shortly have to c:
notice that he would tend. With regard to the ships of that cast now
subject on Monday readiness, I cannot but think the Right Honnenti
Gentleman was m el el in their eh 'reeler and qu It
tTION. and if I am rightly informed, many of them tie-
in pursuance of a such a description as cannot he expelled to let...:
on of the House to any very consequential effedis, and are Iste
state of the coon- me Ins wall calcalatedfar the service, for witiche •
ring in, I need no were intended. 4Tpon the whole, -indeed, I •
nieces by which the thoroughly persuaded that the national navy .
ed. If we look at present tar from being in that state, in *shier
ices; if we look to this important crisis the country -must wish to •
slued, in regard to it. From every information i could defier, gi
a; if we survey the . re far as I have been able to collta the untie.
ay at this crisis, we of others, the public opinion is at this time fne •
all for our utmost able to the system permed by Earl On Vt.: •
:Ise of our eitsdeen and I believe in my conscience, than had it 1
ce and discuss the persevered ire, and that Noble Earl tamale, .
lcumnince at once. the head of the Ad:t fluky deputment, he e
7 ateliers then foil have brought the navy of this country to Cl.' ,
mber of this House, highest passible pitch of strength and glory.
i this neinnal sitite- , was Mc:refire with fain and indignation that 1 -
er upon the retied. time More beard ass Hon. Gentliumen (Mr. 3eE .
lice the commences cherefterise that meritorious zed gallant officer,
are engaged sinele i the gieatest enemy of the country, and as brine!
hart, re steady, and' the British navy into disgrace.; and I am still,
l'he first "bled that hopes that tne parliament will not separate oa
itself in is general nut ass eirquiry in the present see,ian which
x finances; but up. bring that question to a final issue. Hair,'
to go at large this internal situerim of the country, the littaSC I.
et topics to which 1 I Mink, a trent to be extremely well satisfied;
;he more particular- it is web Ma utmost Gals:Aaron, that ! have nee
nosed from doing so. coagr itulete them 011 it. There neverwas. I thi
ehich has prevailed Su this or any other, a more brave, determined. '
hope never to find lead people, firmly united. and ardent in dreen.,
onourable friend of it tram say attack that may he made upon in
or ward inwards the iroandet as they hare been by the most forna..
tenerel and compre. 1111aACes, they have not telexed in their prim
:ate of the finances. tions to repel them. Is this situation Ora •.
were told the situ- sheen themselves disposed to forget /licit rare
flourishing, that we curnstances, and with an unexampled spina,, .!
se without interring were willing to bear their numerous buithests, a..
the revenue would ever severely and painfully they could nor :m
that when I heard Wed to press upon them. In lookine to the st.
w:th great doubt, of Irelena also, I see ground of cenglatr: rf
'
aing so was shortly the House and the country. A great ces• 1-lech
:onsicferable addition doubt, been produced, by the mild and iiila
lebt of the country. Administraeinse of my Lord Hardwicke ; i!".1
compelled to snake there is not yet MI the cordial efrenlion stn ie
i 0,000,0001 sterling. that could be vrishee far amongst the peeve '4
less than 70 millions Uoited and Incoreorared Kiegdonen yet lam
and can See eo hopes lanced, that those of Ireland see omit hr
,t
,
the present, we must spnes, feelings. and liberality nt *heir Engllsa
y of the most alia thr.h, and w4at they have a tight to csi ..et -
1
-

;11

.;,
be United Parliament. They can no longer wish
for env separation from this country, as even all
topes of tranquil and lasting benefit would be for
nit, fletl, when under the dominion of France.
unfortunately, however, considerehle drienotent•
rust naturally remain amongst t'lle.mejority of the
eeo
P le, as long as there is may jealousy or distrust
I,emein them and their government, the conse-
quence of which is, that Ireleed, instead of being,
it is cahrulated to be, a tower of strength to the
to
spire in general. now only tends to our geaeral
weakness and iesecurity. The suspicions of the Go-
vernment h the the effea of keeping a large portion
of our military to keep down disturbances, and
serve for the protection of that country against any
attempt upon it from abroad. This state of things,
I leer, must continue some time to come, and as
long as any difficulty remains onpesei to the claims
of the Catholics, they will, re course, be in some
wee discontented. Whenever that impediment shall
be removed, we have no reason to doubt of perfect
cordiality of iffeetion prevailing amongst the people
(tithe two countries In the mean time much may
certainly be done by the Government of Ireland,
even without a repeal of the restrielions on the Ca-
tholics i but. unhappily, we have reason to lament
that Lord klerdwicke's mild anl conciliating dispo-
sition is very diff.ent from that of some other men
of high authoria y, with whom he finds himself as-
sociated. Unfortunately, we find yet in that sours-
try, a Noblemen,
one of the first in the Administra-
eipn (we believe Lord Reddesdale), whose strone;
prejudices must be in the minds of the great maj a-
n y of the Irish nation, and must, therefore, ever
r '
evert nine from being agreeable to them.—
Thinking as I do upon that point, and being of
opinion that the minds of meta there, can scarcely
ever be coneilteed under such circumstances, I
own, that I view the continuance of the Noble-
man alluded to in his important station, with
very gre..t anti ty, as I do not conceive that any
thing ,ffeattel can be dune there, except by the
efforts m a mild and united government. In treat-
ing of the state. objects, and occurrences of the war
in general, it is with sstisfalion that I see one pleas-
ing ex •eption in the war in India. The circum-
stele. s which have taken place in that quarter,
thoieei not hitherto sufficiently explained, e s not
Tre,e.it any disagreeable contemplation to tin. Bri-
t 'mpire ; but, looking to the remainder of our
11,, in et defensive operations, I can observe no-
thieg to be admired in them. Having ail s.dy .hewn
that no ;:teat improvement has been made in our
militoy system and posture of defence, I come next
to connect. ;he objeCts, as well as theeffe.ls of the war.
As to tee nbjea, it was professed to be the necessity
of putting limits to the encroachments and bound-
leas ambition of France, as also to diminish the pow-
. aof that country. Such being the ostensible objeets,
eref have next to look to what have been the effeEts ef
it. Instead of diminishing the encroachments and
riser of our enemy, we now observe the iron
CrolOn of Italy lately placed on theheed of rhe French
I' for. Spain, from b-ing our Friend and Ally,
is n w converted into an aeliee enemy. Even Pm-
tug I, so long in &hence with Great Ilritein, is now
red ced to such a state as to be obliged to purchase
a e g:aceful and precarious neutrality, by the pay-
ment of her treasures. and thus gives our enemy .t
rat eirdituit support than he could derive from
i
any hostile efforts that country could make
age st us. Flanders and Holland, so nearly
conneEtcd with us in fernier times, arc, the
one incorporated with France, and the other
su'ieeesd to his power, so that the resources of the
twe ate united with those ot the enemy against us.
Haeovcr, completely in the power and possession ot
the French Emperor, is redeced to the necessity of
furnisitieg hint with considerable means for making
War against its own and legitimate Sovereign. In
fine, bar. we till all the most sanguine hopes of
Frelieh ambirt,in re..11,,d, end. the Alpi, the Pyre-
nees, the Rhine, and the Ocean, insufficient Es...le-l-
arks fur Its extensive and encreasing empire. The
posture which the enemy assumes is the mot
formidable that can be well conceived.---lt
holds Italy and Hanover as strong stations, to
cor,troul and overawe the Emperor of Germany.
The vast space she occupies. either direaly or indi-
reteiy, in the map ot Europe, together with her im-
mense population, will be sufficient to convince us
of the vast extent of her resources for military opt-
retorts. We do not know, at this time, of any detal-
, reigns in the revenues, or credit of the F renchGii•
vetament, and 1 suppose that will scarcely again be
conteueed, as was once done before by our present M i
sister, that they were not only on the brink, but in the
very gulph of t urn. similar asset tines were also made
tga celebrated writer in this country, Sir Francis
.•
a van.; s, whose writings long predifted that
France, ie the prosecution of the veer, 'twit hievi-
tatey Le ruined in its finances. Tee French mi-
nister of fiaance. however, in ti s last report upon
that subjett. asserted that no more debts could be
accurnmeted by the war, but they already had
meat s to cure it on for ten years to come, and that
Nvialieet :ter enlargement of expenses they might
teontitaue it for thirty years more ; that its Glut alloil
fur another tea years would make no difference to
Fume, while the continuance .f it by this coml-
• try wnti:l cost no less than four milliards 1 and
teat whatever may be the exponces of France.
. as it slid not exceed thirty mations annually,
would be completely covered by its regular re-
venue. Even Sir F. D'lvernots himself admits,
that whatever their unsocial defalcetions were
before, they tumid means to supply them
;luting the wee by contrhnttaons raised upon other
commies, and that there is no &Sett now, thous..
he is of opinion, that it ttfast operate prixertully in
i
mute, MS LEC means were exhausted ot replenishing
tlemi from the territories of °diet s. I, however,
this hot perceive that these is match elience ot this last
helsPenmg ; and, considering the enormous power
and population of that country, with no 11.01 C than
an expenditure of :10 millions annually, I see no rea-
toe to expel, that if this be in reality a war to be Be-
tided by tinence, the revenues of France are likely to
be ruined. The contrast, on the contrary, I consider AS
very uafavourebte, when France can go on with the
War at the expellee 4,1- 30 millions or less, while it
costs this c..uetry from TO to tiO millions a year.
The next ulajesn to be consiecree it, the state 01 the
armies cl France, which we tied to he Ind a.:11 com-
plete in every tespeel, composed ot disetp.istrol, el-
peri:,Lc2d aad VCCI.TiII Lumps, commaneed by offi-
cers of rich appioved reputation and abilities, its.--
cieeang the most formidable stations, to overawe

and intimidate their Otighhours, and numerensly
assembled in the opposite and convenient ports of
that country, of Holland, Flanders, Spain, and Italy,
still threatening us with all the horrors and dangers of
invasion. Looking next to the unexpeCted condition
of her navy, what an extraordinary scene presents
itself? England, by all its bnaated naval exertions,
has launched, in the last year, only three additional
ships of the line, and no more than seven-frigates.
France, on the other hand, has been enabled to col.
left, in the same year, twenty-five ships of the line;
Spain as many more, equipped and ready for service,
which, when combined with the Dutch force, will
muster eighty-fear ships of the line, which is only
eight vessels short of the last returns of the British
navy. In ad titian to them, we must take into ac-
count their great proportion of frigates and innu-
merable flotillas, and thus view, with awe, how
much the enemy has been, in so short a time, able
to etfeft, by skilful management and judicious com-
bination. By these exertions he has found means of
occupy all our ships in the blockade of his nume-
toil, ports, and in the mean time contrives
also to send nut squadrons for offensive
operations against us. This, Sir, is the sad
discouraging scene produced in the proseewion
of a two years war, professedly undertaken for the
diminution of the power of the enemy ? What are
we to think of the secure sailing of the French fleet
from 'Poulon, their proceeding to Cadiz, and subse-
qitently effeCting a junftion with the Spanish squad-
ron in the very sight of the English fleet stationed
off that harbour? The Toulon fleet arrived at
Cadiz on the !nth of April, and the next day,
after being joined by the Spaniaido sailed again
in company on the 10th ; and, wh it is still more
strange, has not since been heal(' if, hor do
we at all know what part of the world was
their destination. Our management on the occa-
sion was certainly such as to demand the most se-
rious enquiry, and it is astonishing to fiad that no
investigation of it has since taken place. I should be
sorry to say any thing that may be thought to refl
on a gallant officer, but such a condo it as that ob-
served by him on this occasion was such as had never
before passed withoutiexaminationin the British navy.
1 am decidedly of opinion, that nothing ever more
tended to produce that superiority of which we al-
wilt justly boasted on the was, than the judicious
seleftion of competent officers to be employed upon
every station. Any thing which could be thought
to imply disgrace has always, heretofore, created
meth jealousy in the royal navy, and such a cir-
cunistence as that of Cadiz should not be allowed
to pass without satisfis3ory explanation. It is, in-
deed. possible, that the great superiority of farce
which the combined fleets might have over him, de-
terred Sir John Orde from making any resiitaoce to
them; but as other men, of superior spirit and de-
termined intrepidity, have been known in the
late war (alluding, we snopoie, to the celebrated
exploit of Admiral Cornwallis leaving only five
ships, against a French squadron of thirty-six sail,
of different rate.) to fight even against an equal
or greater disparity of numbers, the public, surely,
must think it right, and will expect that Sir John
°ode should account for having retired before
them. I have lately received a representation
of the English Let off Cadiz, that the Adoei-
ral's ship, the G!..my. #s well as the Agnnernmen,
the Centaur, Ihe Peizatierioss, said the Bay, were
a very unserviee &hie state, which, if true, contains
a serious and severe charge against the Board of
Admiralty, though their being also short of water
and other necessaries seems to rest more immedi-
ately with the Admiral. This is the state in which
the English fleet is generally represented to have
been ; but, on the other hand, why is not Sir John
Orde, if he found himself too weak to face the com-
bined squadron, obliged to account for his not taking
a station between them, m as to prevent their junc-
tion, while he sent for a reinforcement ? If his ships
were in this bad and Jecrepid state, why did he not
represent it to the Board of Admiralty? Why was
ha short of water and stores, when he had Malta
and Sicily convenient to him ? If he was of ne-
cessity Inroad to retire before the eliemyo why did
he not leave some vessel to watch, and convey in-
telligence of the course they were steering ? When
Lord Nelson arrived at Gibraltar in pursuit of the
enemy, he found no ship, nor could lie gain any in-
telligence of what became of Sir John Orde ur his
squadron, and under these circumstances surely the
subjeft demands at least a satisfactory explanation.
oss to the destination of this squadron, the reports
and rumours of it seem so very various, that little
more is left for it but mere conjefture. Some per-
sons suppose, that it was destined for Jamaica,
while sobers imagine that it sailed fot the coast of
Brazil. In either case it is calculated to do a great
deal of mischief. The capture of Jamaica, which
could not probably oppose an adequate resistance,
would be produatve of great consteinatioa in the
commercial world. Both these points of attack
were of the utmost importance, anal the rich posse:7
sions of Portugal in the Brazils would be of as great,
if not greater consequence to us, than even Jamaica
itself. The Port of Rio de darner°, and others,
would give the enemy a serfs, strong, and conveni-
en station, where they would be secure from any
British rouse that could be brought against them,
and would enable them to cruise in the rear of our
East In tie trade; and also give them the command
of the trade to South America. A slight reference
to the map will shew the importance of this station
in a military point of view, independently of its
rich produCtions; and, in the opinion of some of
the ben informed persons, would be more advan-
tageous to them than the possession of Egypt, which
we so strenuously contended for. Another suppo-
sition is, that the destination of the combined squad-
ron has for the East Indies; and, every thing con-
%Meted, I must confess that I would rather have
them there than in either of the other two places; for
though by a co-operation with some of thenative pow-
ers still in arms Against us, they might do much mis-
chief for a while, yet the effefts of it would be so re-
motely felt by this country, that little could ulti-
mately be apprehended, as they would have to
contend against two such distinguished officers as
Sir Edward t'ellew and Sir 'Phoirtes Trowbridge.
But while we may consider ourselves as tolerably
safe from our superior force in the East, we are in
no state whatever to cope with the enemy, either at
LI:II.I7CA or the Brazils ; and such is now the com-
pete:lye superiority against us, that France might
strike a fatal biow m ether of these quarters, king
before we could tolled any sufficient meals of pre-

venting them. Considering, therefore, this situa-
tion of France, in point of revenue, as Well as naeal
and military ((lice, we cannot be without serious
grounds of apprehension. It may, indeed, be said.
that however ill we succeeded in other respells, we
had at least repelled the danger of invasion ; but
the worst of it is, that while we see them prevailing
in so many other quarters, they do not still cease to
threaten to; with that invasion. For my own part,
I never was of opinion that an invasion could spec
dily be effeded ; and should it happen, I never had
the smallest doubt of what must be the result of it :
but I know, that the preparation for it, on the part of
the enemy, would oblige us to incur a very enormous
expenditure,and keep our best military force at home
for out own protedion His Majesty's speech, at
the opening of Parliament, informed us, that the
enemy's preparations in the different ports went on
with increased adivity, ant I can see no reason to
sosped that the plan has been abandoned. We all
must know, that whatever may be the temper of the
French Emperor, he is by no means subjeft to
passion in his military enterprises; and it is clearly
evident, that the invasion of this country is now
quite as predicable as it ever was before. Ihe de-
signs of the enemy will be more regulated by the
state of his own preparations, than by the danger of
the attempt, while we can see no material improve-
ment in our military system, and no one objed of the
war hitherto accomplished. For this reason, we
should call upon the Ministers to state explicitly,
what hopes they now entertain of doing more against
the enemy than they have hitherto done, and what
means they have of effeding it? We cannot longer
congratulate ourselves, or entertain any expeda-
dons from the deranged state of France, as has
been done heretofore, while we see them holding sta-
tions in Germany so advantageous and strong, as to
enable them to controul and overawe the whole of
that Empire, and find that no progress has yet been
tnade iu forming alliances for ourselves. The com-
munication of last night (which he hire real) affords
us no light whatever on this subject, and I believe
there never has occurred any instance or example in
the history of this country, where Government
made such declarations, and yet kept the public and
Parliament so entirely in the dark. To all former
communi, ations of ths kind it was usual for His Ma-
jesty to state at the opening of Parliament in time of
war, either that it still continued, in consequence of
being unable to obtain advantageous terms of peace,
or that we had offered terms, or that negotiations of
alliance were then in train. This message, on the
other band, did only state that we had confidential
communications with foreign powers, but, though
Russia was barely mentioned, did not inform us
whether we were likely to have any alliance with
that power, or whether the negotiations were for
the purpose of obtaining A peace, or for the joint
prosecution of the war. I will not dispute the justice
of the position laid down in His Majesty's Speech,
that the security of his dominions is intimately con-
neEted with the general state of Europe, nor can I
see any prospel of accomplishing any of the objeds
of the war, but by a coalition with some of the great
Powers of the Continent. I also admit, that, under
certain circumstances, it might be out of our power
to make a desirable peace, without the concurrence
and assistance of Foreign Powers. But what I must
objed to is, carrying on, single-handed, a merely
defensive war, without being able to make any
hostile impression on the enemy.- A defensive war,
though a paramount objc in times and cases of im-
minent danger, is to me preferable only to an in-
glorious and disadvantageous peace. If we are
obliged to continue the contest, it should he done
with allithe power we could bring into adion, and
with proper regard to a celebrated quotatiop-
4-- PossA qua plurima virtus
Es%e, t, et tote czrtstuni est corpare regni."
—lf a combination on the Continent be predicable
in our favour, I should certainly give it the prefer-
ence to any peace that could not be obtained upon
reasonable terms, hot I should prefer the latter, if
we bad even the next beet security for its stability, to
that of reducing the power of the enemy, through
the guarantee or aftive mediation of some of these
leading powers. If there be no other way of making
a peace but through the interference of friendly
powers, that fad should be explained and proved to
the satisfaCtion of the public. It is impossible, that
if our negotiations were in any forwardness at the
commencement of the session, they should not have
been brought to some conclusion before this time.
'The overture made by France, stated no terms, but
offered the opportunity of negotiating, which I
should have been willing to receive. and at the same
time invited the other great powers of Europe to a
general congress for that purpose. We have hi-
therto been left in complete ignorance of the views
and designs of our Government. This situation of
things is unprecedented in the annals cf tins coun-
try. We are asked to appropriate 5,000.00di. of
money for Continental purposes, without knowing
whether it be or he not for the contingent chant: cf
assistance. who the parties are, or what is their
power, situation, or disposition—a degree of confi-
dence waich this House should never place in any
Mintfter. When tubsid es were voted in the last
war, the power and dispositions of the parties to
whom they had been granted, were the subjed of
daily debates among-t us. Ido not oppose the vote
of a subsidy, as such, but wish to be informed of
the nature of the service which the parties have
engaged for, and what is their power of being effec-
tual? I can, indeed, scarcely think that the co-
operation of Austria, or Prussia, singly,or a coalition
with Russia, without the assistance of one or other of
them, would be well worth the purchase, as there
is not one of them which I think able to do any
thing very material of itself against France. It
would be right also to consider in this respell the
advanced period of the year, for we ate now draw-
ing towards the end of June, and I know of no
military dispositions as yet made by Russia, which
in the present year could he brought to bear upon
the French. My principal ()Ned is, that the House
should not separate without some explanations on
this head from His Majesty's Ministers. It thinga
are in so unfinished a state. that it would not be ht
to snake any further conei. lication now, the
remedy would be to keep thin Session open by ad-
journments, till the proper period shall arrive, what-
ever impatience some Gentlemen may have to retire
to the country. 1 shall therefore conclude with
moving, " chat an humble Address be
His Majesty, praying that he
pleased nst to prorogue the

~. -..

,4r!

__

• s
tz tithe give up •ene et t.* other. "wrhis rrenchi
during a considewable time, ntgleded their Colonio,
*ld appeared to triake their first and grand effort to
attack us at borne. In such a siltation, and with
these formidable prepu'ations going on under oar
Very eye, and every day intreasing, he had no &hst
hit the Hon. Gentleman woubl have been rase of
the first to blame and censure Government, if they
had, under such circumstance.;, dispatched a mins-
ber of ships to the East and West Indies, and there-
by have weakened the means of our defence at home.
Ministers had in r6nsequence acted between the two.
We had kept fleets that were superior, and were
sepal to the t.tsk of blockading the enemy in all their
ports. We had a superior fleet in the Meditersairean,
that was fully adequate to keep in checV and over-
, ewe the Toulon fleet. We had a fleet at Cadiz, ano-
ther at Ferrols another at Rochfort, all severally
legifate to keep the enemy in their ports ; and
we had, besides these, a very strong and numerous
squadron off Ireland. The Hon. Gent. had made a
Charge against Ministers, on account of the escape of
the Toulon fleet, and had pretty broadly insinuated
that these wa:; something on the vory lace of this
transa(tion, Loth with resped to Lord Nelson and
flir John Orde, that called for lin inquiry. The Hon.
Gentleman, however, must know the various and

great difficulties there were in forming a blockade.
- He now came et the sccoiid part, which related
more particularly to the general state of Europe,
and to the more dire& objefts which are contained
in the Message, that we delivered to the House
yesterday. The Hoanitrable Gentlemen had in this
part .allitled pert:cubed), to the Overture of the
French Government, relative to peace, mentioned in
the Message of His Itlejesty, in the commencement
of the Session. The Hon. Gentleman had mention.
ed that offer as frank and fair ; but if he had Ma.
tureiy coesidered the words about that very time
made use of, by the heal of the Finch Government
to his own twa Councils of State, to whom he said,
to That when England was prepared to comply with
all the conditions of the treaty of Amiens, the whole
treaty of Amiens, and nothing but the treaty of
.Amiens, be would then, and only then, ,condescend
to grate thin peace," he thought the House would
not be disposed to regret the answer that hod been
returned to His Majesty on that subjud. As to the
Mersa ;e itself, under all the circumstances of ehe
cote. the communication was as full as the nature
of the busieess would at present permit. The Ho-
nourable Gentleman complained that Ministers had
not been m-,re speedy in bringing the negotiation to
bear, and, therefore, he would wish the House not
to pace confidence in them, by trusting them with
' this sum of money. He requested, however, that
the House would refleet, and ask themselves candid-
le, whether a trenraChon of that kind could" be
brought to a speedy issue? it must be 4 concert
between the two powers, either to enter jointly
into the war, and to persist in carrying it on
against France, or to negotiate together a peace on
the basis of securing the general interests of Europe.
When we consider the remoteness of Russia from
this country, the period of the year in which the
negotiation began, and if, to the difficulties that
country had to contend with are added, those of
other countries, the Howe cannot be surprised that
the negotiation is not brought to a conclusion.
But the Hon. Gentleman bad goer further, and
said that Ministers were to blame for not entering
upon it soor.er, If by this he meant to attribute to
them any deity that could be avoided. he could
'es did them great injustice. It
ounce had mautfestly shewn, that
her favourite and ruling system was to run an from
one aggression to another, and that the will and
yleasure of the head of that government was the
only law by which it would be bound, that the
court of Russia was induced to decline all further
connection leith :hem. And after that ere::: took
piece. the negotietion was immediately tom.
tr.encei. end had been since carried on with every
possible dispatch. The House would not therefore
be surprised, that his Right Hon. Friend did not
advise His Majesty to make any communication
rehiring to it at present. Bat the Hon. Gentleman •
seemeet to third:, that because the crown thought
it oat not ready to make a commaaication, Pao
Bement should therefore be kept together ; anJ
he stoats not confide such a sum of money to the
discrvien of Ministers, though he allowed there
were instances of a similar confidence given by
parliament to Ministers during the last war. But
before the Hon. Gentleman bad mentioned the
enet aim, he would have done well to know
whether his Right Hon. Friend intended to call
for the whole of that sum. In looking to cases
of a similar nature last war, the Han. Gent. and the
House will find on the Journals that on the Bth and
h of June I 7t/O, the House voted a sum on an ar-
rengement not completed of no less than 3,000,0001.
on the general unexplained large ;!round, of ena-
bling His Majesty more effeetnally to carry on the
war. And certainly the diverting generally the
power of France at the present moment, and draw-
ing it from operating direEtly against this country,
must be equally important and desirable. The
question was then on the expediency, and it is now
the same. Suppose Parliament was prorogued, and
the result of the nogociatioo such as to require the
meeting. Parliament. His Majesty has it in his
power to call them together in • fortnight, which is
as short a period as they might perhaps meet in un-
der an adjournment.
Mr. SVINDIIANI said that from the general
view of the emintty and of the world, Parliament
should pot itself Into such a state as to he able to
ea as soon as possible. The House would consider
that the Noble Lord said he bad increased the re-
gmer force 35.000 men, but these were not all
gained. You should not only consider the aeltual
netnher, but thesuercesirom woich 0 ey werederived.
Some of tl.ens came from the Mello r, which was
not a permanent source. Some were Hanoverian,
very good troops; hut we could get no More of them.
' As to our Navy, it had been said the sea was our
Own. and we were sole masters there, and yet
• tt,e deets or she enemy were traversing the ocean
in direftiens totally unknown to Ministers, and the
Lest lotowledge we have cf them may perhaps be
that they have. fallen like a thunder-bolt en some

r-

-•- --I.rAtiegiftetienr

~•-

Gentfinleet oho professed themselves frien ily to
Continental alliance, the moment thy), saw a
chance of negctiation, should call for a com-
munication that mast defeat it. They who
recommend joint war and joint 'peace, should have
sheun a case of culpable delay, before they proposed
this measure, because the communication could not
be made within a limited time.

Mr. W 'won VA explained.
Earl TEMPLE did not see how a call upon
sli-
nisters, to make good their promises at the opening
of the Session, could be to brand them in the eyes of
the world, as stated by the Right Hon. Gentleman
who spokelast (Mr. Canning). It was said that the
negociation is not ripe for disclosure. All then he
should ask eras, that the House might,be put in the
same situ ition in which it was at the beginning of
the Session. It was expo Red at the beginning of the
Session, that the moment the negotiation was ripe for
disclosure, it would be communicated to the House.
Let then the House he enabled, by being kept sitting,
to receive such communication whenever the Oppor-
mity may arise.
Mr. FOX—" I cannot reconcile it to my duty as
a ntember of Parliament, or as one standing in a
situation in which I have been often placed, view-
inz, it as a question connected with the rights and
privileges or this House, and the general policy of
the war, to give a silent vote upon the present oc-
casion. Considering, however, the lateness of the
hour, I shall endeavour to compress what I have to
say into as short a space as possible. I think it in-
cumbent.upoa me to make some observations upon
Ae early part of the Noble E.ul's speech. Dur-
ing the two yt at 6; !ince the conlmen:erneat of the
pmeist war, there has been an increase of debt to
the amount of $0 millions beyond what was paid off
by the Commissioners for the rediscrion of the na-
tion it debt. The capital created in that time, in-
cluding three loans, exceeds eighty millions ; so
that, exclusive Of the war taxes, which all must al-
low are considerable, we have added eighty mil-
lions by this war to the national debt, pruviously
created, fur yon hare not a right to take credit for
what has been paid off by the sinking fent The
promises held out to us were, that there was not to
be any debt beyond what should be paid off by the
Commissioners. That promise has completely fail-
ed. The Noble Lord (Castlereagh) has, however,
a carious answer for this. He says that promise
was meant only on condition that the expences of
war did not exceed a certain sum, or in other words,
that the money wouli not be asked unless wanted (a
forrib), far that is the plain mode of describing the
faet.—Now what has happened in the war tel lead
us to unforeseen expences in the two years it has been
carrying on, I do not know, for I am sure no man
could have speculated upon a war of less energy
and aaivity. As the intik:a of the Army wilt be
b-ounla fni ward speedily by an Hon. Member, of
whose talents I ente.lain an high 0-inion, and for
whom personally I have :a great resl43, I shall leave
it in his hands; butthat he will produce a system which
will effeet the extraordinary things the flight Hon.
Gentleman opposite ironically insinuates, I do not
pretend to say, ;and for this reason, because I heard
a similar prophecy of the Right Hon. Gentleman
opposite (Mr. Pitt), and from the same quarter,
which has proved fallacious. When that Right
Hon. Gentleman came into office, he was to amend
and improve the whole system, and make up for tne
ineffickncy and incapacity of the preceding Ad.
ministraton„ and yet, after all t: is promise, he only'
brought in his famous Bill. Without flattering
then, my Honourable Friend (Colonel Craufurd),
I de 'think that the plan which he has to propose,
will be to the full as efficient as the B:11 of the
Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Pitt). That Bill,
and the extravagant praise bestowed upon it, re-
mind me of a story respaliog the poems of Ossian.
In a dispute about their authenticity, it was asked if
Mr. M'P ierson was not the nuthoe, who else could
be the author of that sublime and wonderful pro.
duction ? To which Dr. Johnson answered, 1, why
rnaay men, many women, and many children 1" So
much then for this famous 11.11, to which such won-
drous virtues have been ascribed. The navy, we
are told, has been increased by three ships of the
line; but the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) says you
should also take the losses into account. You might
as well say, that in an estinrate of the army we
should take into account all the deaths and deer.
Lions, and reckon them as so many effective men.
If, indeed, the late Administration had built ships
in a warimore liabl?, to wear and tear, and decay,
there might be something in this mode of tea•
stating t but as I have never heard that objec-
tion made to Earl St. Vincent, I shall not here
attempt to detead him against it. As to the ob-
servation that the enemy's fleets have put to sea,
and that Ministers have remained ignorant of
their destination, I think the answer to this ob-
jection is too general. As part of this answer, ne
are asked, "will you :abandon the system of block.
ade ?" I cannot but think, Sir, that, like other
systems, it is neither universally tight nor universally
wrong. It may be right to blockade Brest, and
yet wrong to blockade Toulou. Well then, will I
you blame Lord Nelson? Sir, I cast no blame upon
Lord Nelson, who, 1 am persuaded, is one of the
bat officers this country liner knew. Without know-
ing where the blame actually lay, I only contend,
that the blockade of Toulon was deficient, the fleet
having been out iu January and in March. If
'Poaloa be a port, the blockade of ,shish is practi-
cable, aby it was ineffectually blockaded requires
explanation. Is it not a fact, that alter the Toulon
h_kt first sailed in January, it took past of our Me-
diterranean convoy Din it not appear, from cir-
cumstances discovered upon that ociatoon, that the
objet of the fleet was out of the Mediterranean ?
and if so, it was the duty of Nlini,tets to have re-
inforced Sir John Orde off Cadiz. We are asked
what intnimatiou do we expect Mimsters to have ?
/he Amount of the Toulon fle t, of the hunriber of
troop. embarked, were points easily asteitained,
being visible to every eye is Toulon. If Buell, Mi-
nisters knew the amanita, they ha I a clue to their
probame destination. Informatim, so far, was cc:.
tairdr in the powes of Ministers to obtain, though,
admit, from ncei.:nts and iniavendable delays,
it might he late bef we it reached them; but it th.:y
lid not revive it sonar time or other, they were es.
aredingln capable. But little obsav an. i has been
,ale iii Lae course of toe J bate upon loci .nd.—

4tate ul that nom hm. teen c...rt!tf Kau !‘ bur
rb.st term too st I 44171 q, hoore4er,
tufa it ..ruesit..z. attJ lisuugh 1 b+.2 sONyproved

~,...

of the cendel of Leta Hardwick° in many things, I
believe th4s effect has been produced in a great
degree by his moderation. The state of Ireland is,
I admit, comparatively good, but we cannot look at
it without anxiety. It never can be complete, as my
lion. Friend (Mr. Grey) has observed. without
the grant of the Catholic Question. But though the
clergy cannot obtain the tull extent of their wishes,
there are many questions respeaing tythes, their
clergy, and some particular offices. the obtaining of
which would greatly improve their situation. Those
who object to the Catholic Question on account of the
time, may not be friendly to the grant of a partial re-
medy, and prefer waiting until an opportunity may
occur to give the whole; but those who are funda-
mentally adverse to the whole prayer of the petition,
ought to be glad to get rid of it by granting a part."
Mr. Fox next proceeded to state the paragraph in
the speech frnm the throne at the opening of the ses-
sion, respeaing the communication with Russia;
which, he conte:•ded, could only mean either
that His Majesty delayed his answer to the
pacific proposal from France, until he should
hear from Russia, or that he was negotiat-
ing a treaty with Russia, and would give no an-
swer. until it was brought to an issue. "If the
answer was liable to this double interpretation, we
have a right now to know which is the right mean-
ing. lam to presume, that the Right Honon able
Gentleman (Mr. Pitt) intended to give an expla-
nation open the subjea before the end of the
Session, and if the result has not come in time
to meet the regular close of the Session, the Ses•
sion ought to he extended beyond the regular time,
so as to meet the result. It has been said that
the measure betrays a jealousy and distrust of Mi-
nisters, and would lessen them in the eyes of Foreign
Powers. Sir, Great Britain has too long subsisted
in its present Constitution, for Foreign Powers, and
among them Russia, not to know that when the
King of England promises money, it is upon con-
dition that he can get the Parliament to grant it.
Should His Majesty make an improvident engage-
ment. it is no dishonour to him, nor violation of Al-
liance with a Foreiin Power, to withhold the means
of fulfilling such a contract. The question in the
present case is, whether we will keep the money in
our own hands, or give it without knowing for what
use it is intended, or even a promise that we shall
know, as soon as the money has been applied ?—I
own that I have no confidence in Ministers : that
feeling, however, does not arise from any personal
considerations, but from the situation in which the
Administration is placed, and the manner in which
it was formed, and still continues to subsist When
we hear of hasty resignations and lapid conciliations,
and the p reties remain together only because they
cannot st end without each other, I cannot think such
an administration worthy of confidence Allowingthe
talents of the Right Hon. Gentleman to be thrown
ieto the scale, I do not think the present Admini-
stration, therefore, more entitled to the praise of effi-
cacy than some of those which have beencontlemned
for the want of it. Even from what has passed in
the present Session, I think it impossible that any
man cal have any great confidence in it. But it has
been said, if you disapprove of the Minister, why
not move far his clisens,el ? All I shall say ups:
this poi ;t is this, that if the persons who have it in
their power to form an salmesistration, do not think
this a tem: requiring a lenriliel and vigorous admi-
nistrati n„ embracing all the persons capable of
serving the country. the people ought to cell them
so. It such a ministry be not formed, lam sure
there is no chance of this country weathering the
storm. Ido not mean this expression in the pusil-
lanimous sense, that the nation must he aissolutely
anitiliiletel, hut that it may be reduced to a state of
depression from which it may not be able to reco-
ver. As to the principle of exclusi m although
no real condemns it more than I de,
yet, I am sure there is no man. let his private
views and personal ambition he what they may,
who would suffer such considerations to stand
in the way of so great an objea. I disapprove
of the cenclua of Ministers on account ut the
length of the commanications with Russia.—
They should have requested a short and immediate
answer, and if that had been refused, 1 should not
have considered the negotiation worth pursuing. I
am a friend to continental alliances purely defensive,
but even with Russia, a nation for which I Acknow-
ledge my partiality, I would not wish fur an offensive
alliance ; because, I do believe, that not even the
French Revolution has contributed so much to the
present unfortunate state of Europe, as that want of
confidence which has pervaded its several Members.
The partition of Poland excited th it distrust of the
great powers of the Continent, and the effeift has
been since much increased by the s) stem of
indemnities; according to which, countries are
cet up and carved, and the owners transferred
from one place to another, the: destroying eh pa-
triotic teeling and all confidence in the permanence
of property a I,l.situation. These evils attach alike
to Great Britain, to Russia, and Austt ia, as well as
to France. They are all guilty, land should repent
and arneuil. All those who would put themselves
at the head of a confederacy to restore confidence
and recover from that state, into which the want of
it has reduced them, ought to set out with moder-
ation. I would not, therefore, begin with an cf.
fensive alliance with Russia, which might lead
to a suspicion that I was aiming at a prepon-
derance and power which I might abuse. You
should, therefore. have answered France, and pro-
, posed a general congress of Europe, to settle its af-
fairs vial a new and permanent basis. Russia and
Austria would. of course, have been parties to this
proceeding. I wish I could add Spain but,
alas ! the most calamitous measure ever adopted
had made her your enemy. It is nearly certain,
that this course would have ended in a peace, to
which all these nations would have been gua-
rantees; a circumstance more important than the
terms of the treaty. But sepposing France to
have refused this proposition, you would not be
the worse. On the contrary, it would have
gained you the character of moderation, and ob-
tained you the goodwill of all those Powers to whom
you had given such a proof of your confidence.
Upon the same principle in my terms, to the French
government I would contrast my moderation with
their ambition, my disinterestedness with' their
hard grasping charafter. In short. I would make
such a pi °position as I thought. were I a
Frenclim in, France ought to accept, the same
Ito be 4A/witted to Congress. I see a smile


, •

...•..
, ... `sy
~,_ 4
(alhidiq. re &liege, te Afr. Pita, teni seenillembeeir ors Me Treetrory Bench 1 as if my
ciple were something silly • and rid/et/hers. I
say. that if it be silly, you have tried the other
ciele, and you have not seceeeded '.l/at it has
14k1, that we are alit, icndly to Com inteta i A iii
'I maintain that a treaty even wi h Russia, •
combining other Stares, swlls/ put volt is, a
situation than Tem are alreely i ard tsnabl- Fr
to take many advantages which she nth:l-wise ne
not have. Unless then there was a reasonable
Inability that it would be followed by en Alliance
Austria or Prussia, we were better wit ~.'it its'
Mr. PITT began by observing, that he was
eluded by circumstances from followine the i
Member through a great part of the field %%Nei
had taken: u he could not discuss most of his:
meat, without examining them in comparison
the aairalscircumstances of the time, and the poi
of the duirstietinn with Russia, which he could
disclose. He should, there/Ore, only advert to th
early parts of his speech. The army, the navy, t ,
state of Ireland, and the sailing of the mews
fleets, had ben all pressed into the speech of
Hon Gentleman who opent d the Jaime; hai
these points were giver. up, for the Hon. Mee b r
did not insinuate that he had any thing new to r'.
commend respeaing them, and wished Parl•ainia
to continue sitting for no other reason Olen the
might, as soon as possible, receive a epsomite.
cation upon the subjea of our telations with Rune%
The taxes raised Within the year were to an ampere
more then sufficient to answer any pledge; and i
stead of increasing the national d•bt, it would
found that t o les. than twenty millions were font-I
nut of the public fund, ant fleetly the same amt.:
last year, besides the loan of the present year of fee
millions for subsidies, coveted an u;foreseen expeece.
The sinking fund was growing up to a consider 'ee
degree, which was a circumstance that ought not •
be lost sight of, when contemplating the res. •urce ci
the country. With all the pressure of ci-euntstancri
therefore, it would be loon. i, that our rescurces you':
prove equal to our spirit. With respect to the are. ,
there were some reasons for his not going into x it
polka at any length, but it was necessary to tome
two errors wlach had crept into the debate. He 1•.:1
brought forward a mode for recruiting the Ire ,
on which mitch had heel said, This; entree
he considered by much the most espediti t
that could be adapted ; and, although it ha!
not an immediate effea, yet it laid a found
tion fur a permanent system for the supply , t
the army. The other mistake respelled the insnffi
ency of the dispo.able force, but upon this point. :
would be found that this force was nearly, if rot
altogether sufficient, end the deficiency, it at ::.,
was merely local. With respell to the Rees, lie
let that point, with the observations already made ins
his Noble Friendobsei vin„ only that there might soon
come a day when he should have some specific pre-
positions upon this suhjeCt. There had hecn fleet
opposite every harbour of the enemy, eiric, troll
unavoidable accidents. might be driven off, and e
would be impossible for Government to know hoe.-
to aa, unless there were double or treble fleets, a:-
equate to encounter the enemy in every cpsaiter of
the globe. With reseed to dee internal settatioe 4
Ireland, the efFcas of the Union were already Nip-
pily felt, hut there still remained various curie /or
discontent,:which could not rapidly be cured tit v.:4
an objea of great anxiety, and no impute irm of
blame against Ministers could arise out of it.—
He would nut mix any thing inflammatory wil
this saihjeft, but treat it with the utincet de.
licacy ; he therefore declined entering into any di,
cussion upon it. With respell to the original cause
ot the war, it was thought right to enter into it,
because we could not long support an lmeourdel:
peace, and it was necessary tonepose that system of
s iolence, pet a ty, and encroachment adopted ter
France. We did not confine our hopes siserel.- t s
the (lea of repelling danger, we endeaveured t••
excite other powers to join us, and in repel/Mr:the
invasion, we meant to rend it in etch a manner as
would onse the other European powers to reduce
the pa rof France, and establish general tran-
quillity nJ security. The next point was, whyif
we were not able to bring the negotiation sooner
to a el-wilts:on 1 N hen e join; peace was nor a .
tainable, a joint war was most desireable. The
present negotiation may lead the powers of tie:
Continent to emething very considerable; ner
was it so shout an,' simple, as only to look to one
power. From the disjointed and debilitated Rate
of the Continent, many diffieuties might yet arise.
and the secrecy with which it was kept might al-
most be said to amount to mystery; but Ministers
under such circumstances must submit to the impu-
tations of the public, but in the sequel, he trusted
the House would be satisfied with the general pro-
priety tif the objea. Atter f.onie observations nears
the advance' of mosey, a itleett stating for n le.t
specific set vice, and the sanaion of precedents upon
this head, the Right Hon. Grateman concluded by
observing, that Russia was most favourable to the
views ot His Majesty's Ministers in the restora-
tion of sectivity and tranquillity in Europe, and as
the confidence oi the natio r was constimtionally
pieced in him, he trusted the House would not refuse
doing that which they were used to do, either from
want of confidence in the Government, or a hostile
disposition in the lloupe, and hoped they would net
think it necessary to throw that slat upon it, which
the lion. Gentleman meant to Jo.

Mr. GREY made a most able reply.
The question Iseing loudly called tbr, the Hoes,
divided, and the nurnb:rs
For Mr. G a v's Motit,n, I : 3—aza:nst it, 'ail
majority against the Motion, I I.
The remaining ordAs of the Jay Were then chi-
posed of, and at THREE O'CLOCK the House
adjourned to this day.

HATMAREET THEATRE—T. la Eveni Th,-
and the Deem, with Lowe Laugh, at Laeas.atths, and OA
V.flag* Lawyer.

PRICE OF STOCKS. YKSTERMY.
&Auk stock.
3 per Cot Reduced
4 per Cent

Otnnium

lutv Wig
Is d.. 1. pious.
enn«.l. f x 6li 50U

LONDON .—P.suls.sPbT GEOIIGE DAVIDSON, No. 3).
Wr street, St. Clertroes„ ark 4 publi..hed Ly 30SIA II
k ()Fit, at tkr Office, Nom. : ). It.ek of St. Ctome,.ts
(Num°, Strand, where linters to; the Paore, ( pow.ploll)
well law duly stowed& dr.

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