The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1808-05-20 00:00:00

DISTILLING FROM SUGAR.

Lord BINNING rose, and stated, that in (NNW-
(pence of his being placed in the situation of
Chairman of the Committee which hail recom-
mended to that House certain regulations with
respect to the substitution of sugar for corn, in
distilleries, he fait it his duty to state to the
House the arguments which had operated on him
and 1113 colleagues in the Committee, in drawing
up the report submitted to the House. He bad
the honour to till the chair of the Committee ap-
pointed to extend relief to the West India traders ;
and though he conceived the legislature should
ettood their bounty peculiarly to the colonies, he
should not argue, from the representations of the co-
lotaiets, but rather from the statemeut of the Commit-
tee. It would, however, appear from this statement,
that whatever might be the opiuion of that House,
yet the opinion of that Committee was decidedly
this, that the iaterests of Great Britain were inse-
parably interwoven with the welfare of the Colonies.
To support this opinion, he read various parts of the
Repo, t of the Cominittee. In the first place, it ap-
peared, thut this country imported corn yearly to
the amount of 770,000 quarters. This was stated
by some to be an exaggeration ; but he could
as-
sure the House, that from whatever he could col-
lect oa the subject, as Chairman of that Committee,.
Jae was induced to believe the report wail fair and
neonate. The last crop of corn in this country,
it would appear from the substance of the report,
was totally inadequate to the consumption, though
some had the hardihood to state, that it was abun-
dant. This assertion, however, was a mere chi-
mera of the moment; for there had been only
tolerable crops in the South. and in the Northern
counties, which were by far the most numerous
and productive, there were not eveivinivldling crops
fur the last season. From the evidcuce before the
House, it would appear there were not even half
crops, for the last year, in the counties of Nor-
folk, Su:colk, Buckingham, and Hertford. which
were the principal corn counties of England. In
England and Scotlaad, generally, the report of the
Cniamittee wnuid prove, that there was but a very
'mail general crop throughout the country, not by
any mesas amounting to an average crop. The
cossequenee had been, that our importation for
the last year was above 80,000 quarter. larger than
for the proceeding )ear. Hence he was induced
to believe., tort a legislative measure, for regulating
the consumption of corn in distilleries, would be of
the utmost importance to the community, particu-
larly to the labouring class, who felt the pressure
of the increase in the price of corn more than
others. It would, besides, he a precedent for the
I preservation of an equal price with respect to corn
in this very populous country. lie lamented, that
the cultivation of spring wheat was not generally
known throughout the country, which was of the
greatest advantage to a nation so deeply engaged
in commercial and manufacturing speculations.—
This bad occasioned meny deficiencies irl provi-
nous, and had extruded to those counties whirl'
were not so immediately connected with the ma-
nufacturing. interest. In the North of Scotland
there lied lieen serious apprehensions of famine,
and the only means to evert it were to concur iu the
r. presentetion mole Ijy the Committee. lie was
of opinion, that no injury would be sustained by
an Act for preventing the use of grain in the dietil-
leries of the. country. Though he understood a
clumge in the "pinion of souse very poi caul Mem-
bers of that !fosse had taken place sieve yester-
day, he eas be 1,0 mewls inclined) to reliiiiiiiish the
hope that the measure mould ultimately deemed
advantageous to the country. Ile stated it was not
his intention to interfere with the articles of Union
between this cmintry and the two incorporated
nations with vs hone it was our duty to continue in
the strictest bonds of amity, though he admitted
it was the right of Parliament to continue a pro-
hiliition of the use of corn in distilleries from one
session until thirty da3s after the next session of'
Parliament. It however bad been the intention of
the Committee to recommend the extension of the
act to Ireland as well as Scotland; but from the
various diffictiltiee which must arise from the col-
lection of fines and revenue in Ireland, he was dis-
posed to permit the matter to Lc a subject of die-
tinet I i•hition. This he particularly felt to be
hie duty, as the facilities in the distillation of spi-
rits, illegally. were much greater there, and attended
sit!, less hazard thou in Eiv,,land o. Scotland.—
While he t 1.10, argues) the necessity of the measure
from the state of this semidry. he could not hut
rernark, t!ii re ever existed an imperious necessity
on the mother country to provide fur the emergen.

iousr."

cies of floe colcn,ics, awl even-on sores occasions to
davrilice it portioti of its convenieute or advantage
to their aelf.ire ; and this argunseut,, he observed,
own Artfllt4thelltA coustilerably by the 'refection,
that the iiitere-n. of 0..: West Indian Colonies was
iuwepanibly connected with that of this country,
and was to us of the last importance. Hence,
lie dhoulil, fivo a coin iction of its propriety, be
luelitied to move, " That the Report of•this Com-
mittee he referred to a Committee of the whole

Mr. Comte professed himself the friend of the
Wein bidet colonists, by no means averse to their
interests, or wedded to the maintenance of the
high • price of corn, yet anxnms that it should
bear, though nut exee:Al the remunerating price,
without which it Oaf impossible the farmer could
exist and nunutain his integrity and character. Ile
combated the idea that corn had exceeded its
regular price amongst the farmers of the great corn
countries. The average price of corn in Norfolk
had not exceeded forty shillings per quarter, and
it was his firm couvictimi, that the present increase
in the prier of corn arose from the circumstance of
the report being made to that House, on the neces-
sity of the substitutien of sugar for corn. It was
not a lenitive want of supply, but a relative pro-
portion of value established by mere accident.—
Ile thought nu more favourable report for' the
agricultural interest could possibly have taken
place than that presented to the House. For
these last fifteen years, sugar had millivolts,
been exported to foreign countries. This appeared
on the face of the report. This was certainly a
strong argument in favour of the corn supply being
suffieieut for the consumption of the country, both
in leaking and 'listable,. He opposed the Noble
Lour* argument* WI the expediency of compelling
distillers to use sugar alone for the ensuing year;
, and concluded, that England would, by proper ar-
raueemeuts, be able to support itself, without any
supply front abroad. For these six weeks pest
there heel been uo decrease whatever in the price of
sugar, notwithstanding the great quantity in the
market at present ; and it was remarkable, that
from the inausent of the present investigation, the
rise in the price of corn might be supposed to have
originated, since that rose had been coeval
with the examination, prior to which period it
had continued at the average price. The re-
port be objected to, as it made au unfair state-
ment with respect to the relative situation of Ire-
land and this country, by not recommending the
aline measure in Ireland as in this country, and the
futility of the reason alleged was the more stiiking,
as urged in the very words of the report. IVhat,
was it became, there were five rogues in the king-
dem of Ireland to one in England, these five should
Le left to exercise their fraudulent practices on the
public, whilst the less number was prohibited
Ile was totally averse to the recommendation of
the Committee, and attributed to it the extrava-
gant rise which had taken place on corn, throughout
the kingdom, within these five weeks past.
Mr. Alderman CURTIS conceived the enforce-
ment of the recommendation of the Committee a
measure of sound policy, and supported the motion
of the Noble Lord.

- -,- •
Sr Jones LAllteontended, that no legislative '1
measure should he founded on this report, as it
contained doctrines altogether inconsistent with
the agricultural interest of the country. He ad-
mitted, that for some short time a scarcity of earn
had its some counties existed, but this he attributed
partly to a deficiency of crops in those particular
districts, and partly to a spirit of speculation, origi-
nating in the report of this Committee, which had
been extremely prejudicial, tie* only to the ugri- ,
cultural interests, but even to the welfare of the
nation at large. Its tendency was to raise that
famine it professed to fear. Ile represented in Par-
liament, it was true, a certain district, yet whatever
might be the sentiments of that part of the com-
munity, he felt he had a duty to perform to the
hole agricultural population of the nation, and
hence he felt an anxiety to expose the fallaciou. rea-
souing and false statement of the report of the Com-
mittee now subtler consideration. Though soine of the
northern counties of Scotland might have expe-
rienced a comparative scarcity, yet this was by no
means alarming, since it would speedily be seine-
died, either by bounties or public gmnariel. In
filet the report of a Committee of Members of that
House, in 10407, had for ever put such a question at
rest, as it most clearly proved that no such &Anger
could fairly be apprehended. That report stated
that the use of sugar would be attended on the
contrary a ith very great loss to the community. He
was inclined to hope the .revenue would not suffer
any material injury bum the prevention of the use of
sugar in distilleries, and the country, it was evident,
would gain much. He had been, in fact, surprised
at the statement of the Committee ; it was unne-
cessary, dangerous, and without precedent. True,
the use of corn in distilling had been prevented iu
the year 1757, hut it was almost immediately re-
moved by Government discovering, by the peti-
tions presented, that the prohibition was of the ut-
most disservice tee the community, and extremely
dangerous to the lauded interest. The petitioners
stated, that the prohibition a as so injerionsto them,
that they had found it iinpossibleto attain subli,tenee

Ii their labour. Ile trusted that our relatiolei with

America n ere ono sueli 3310 Mauee the hope that
this country 00011 d MeV)) e its %noted supplies from
it, at least it WIIS ii) 11). pre)1110044 11111 Cillgati•
would salonl sonie supply, to meet any exi4eitcy
which might It was, under the present state
of the West Indio colonicA, thew i.sh, he belie% eJ,
of every man, to adopt any measure of relief, not in-
compatible with the hest aii.l certain interests of

this country. if any rational plan was submitted
to the Legislature for their relief, he n mild give it
his warmest support. But he impressed upon the
Ilouse the anxious wern that was felt throughout
esery branch of the Catted Kingdom on the rec, p-
tion of the present report, and that no event could
he more grateful than the determination of that
House not to found any legislative measure upon it.
Mr. Cosa-F."l considered, that such a measure
as that recommended by the Noble Lord, ought,
at least, to have proceeded from come of ill. Ma-
jesty's Ministers, wham he country might held re-
sponsible for its erVetts. Ile d:d not know to what to
athibute the J. ris. ear: in ele bi.t.,:cl• of the Noble
Lord, from the report winch was originally pro-
duced from that Coinmittee of obi, to he was Chair-
wait. topec: to irciazti, ti:e rt,,ort wea hos-

I

tile to the eatension of that prohibition which it
reconsisseuslod to be adopted Its this Met of the
country ; yet that night the Noble Chairman spoke
a shtlerthrialignage. and, 'without the advance-
ascot of uny:grouud for the alteration, not only al-
tiered, with respeet to Ireland, one recommendation
of the report, but totally contravened its inference,
by decl ming his intention to move, iu the Com-
mittee, that this measure should be totted upon
throm.,,hout the whole of the United Kingdom.
The ground also has been shifted, and the probe- .11
hie apprdlemion of u scat city was DOM the great
ground for the adoptive of this reetrictima on the
distillation of corn. Upon such a • topic he Mt
cotivineed that discussion was replete with num..-
mos et ids. It encouraged speculations of even,
kind, all alike hostile to the general iutereo.s
the empire. Ile hake far dilrereast feeling add a
niuu on thut point, louse he thought the means of
the venial,- had considtrably increased, and were , 1
overly, if not altogether, competent to sapport a
very material accession to our population. It was
on' question of this kind the ordinary practic6 to
raise a hostile cry against the landed interest, and
to impute to it motives which he was conscious
that body never entertained. Still stets bootie cry
was attended with the beneficial effect of extending
the agriculture is the growth of corn throughout
the kingdom; and the result was, that the country
was now able to support. from its own soil, a very
great additioaal extent of population. A variety of
causes had -cootsibuted to that result ; arnorirt
these the improvement iu the breed of cattle,
which 'imitate:ell:Lode, formerly applied for the pur-
poses of pasture,to be now cultivated for the growth
of grain. Much had been said oldie failure of the
lost harvest, and of the melancholy mospect of an
approaching scarcity, and thence was inferred the
pronriety of restricting the distillatiou from corn.
Although he admitted that in some districts there
might have been a failure in this last season. and
that a great increase in the price of corn had in
these places followed, vet lie knew, as a matter of
fact, from the best ansi most diligent inquiry, that
such failure was by no means general. In the
West of England the crops of the last year were
extremely productive, and he was informed. from
the best authority; that there was now stored at De-
vises. and in other towns in that part of the country.
more corn than was ever known at any former
period. He regretted the distress of the West
India colonies; but in the prevent state of the
commercial relations of this country, he saw the best
advantages likely toarise from venlig; is agriculture
a proportion of that capital, which, to consequence
of the stagnation of trade, was now ultemployed.
Such exertimis would have the effect oraffording
fowl for double. the present ponalution. This po-
sition 11,55 illustrated in the county of Norfolk, and
in no other county in the kingdom. where, by the
investment of en:iital in such pursuits, every se-
moth acre was applied for the winter food of cottla •
hut even taking an average through the whole
kingdom of one acre is fifteen, there would be then
a supply sufficient to afford daily a hAf-pound 41f
meat for every individual of our population. The
Hon. Member concluded by an earnest address to
Alteldettoe, trot to vntrer a "tertiperary view of per
licy to supersede the real and permanent istetests
of the country.

Mr. M sitar ATT trusted that the Howe of Com-
mons, in discussing the propriety of this measure,
would net dismiss from it, consideration the ire-
portant interests of the West India colonies. the
had only to refer to the reports not only of the lats
Committee, bat of former ones, to prose that the
euillerrassed situation of those important branches
of the empire called for urgent and particular at-
tention. The House had to consider, that unless
attention was paid to their intermits, inevitable
ruin must ensue, not alone to the proprietor* of
West India estates, but to that numerous body
of subjects in this country, who had, by annuity,
mortgages and other securities, considerable claims
on West India property. It should also recollect,
in what a great extent this description of trade con-
tributed to the revenues of the empire, and, of
course, what an alarming effect must follow from
their distress, terminating, as it must, unless re-
lieved by that House, in absolute destruction. The
cessation of our wonted supplies from foreign coun-
tries had been very truly adverted to ; and it was
further to be recollected, that Sweden, which was
hitherto an importing country, was DOW from the
failure of the la harvests, and from the pressure of
political causes, Meech a situation, that distilla-
tion from grain was there stopped, and it was more
than prohable that that faithful and undeviating
ally would have to look to this country alone for
assistance and stn. ply. When, therefore, it was
considered that, from the state of our foreign re-
lations, no importation. of eon was to be expected,
and that, front such a source, this country had
been used to receive a supply of 770,000 quartets
of corn, surely the hinder( interest could not,
with justice, feel jenlous of any proportionate al-
itfirlilte in favour cf the British colonists. It was
proved, from the returns resented to that
floulo, that, note Allot-ending tnumerous bills
of inclosure, still there was no surplus in this
trountr3 of uative tore, a circumstance owing
in a great measure to the proportionate it-
clew- of the population. So much had been
said inoinist the claims of the colonists, that be felt
it 110 ditty to appeal in behalf of men who had suf-
fered already to a met severe enteot, in conse-
quence of the general pressure on the empire at
lae.re. in the very article of sugar, they had
sudered considerably. Its average had hem,
for the Lot year, at thirty-four sivilliegs the bits.-
tired ; wheo it was the fact, that, wish a fair esti-
mate of the whole espouses, the t o,t to the culti-
vator was sisty-three per cwt. Did net
such severe loss, leading as it did to irremediatls
ruin. imperiously call upon the .uperiatenditig vine
of Parliament for relicf?—tleside, were not so, Is
claims seconded by ti e excitt interest vs ;in.h tl.e
mother country con4ltt to feel for the lyres, nate, u
of a branch of its cantan-. which consuurctl its
ant-
lions of its manufacture., arfurtled a 'Amber: fir
twenty thou.aftel iii its seamen, a, .l Itrottg.::t an at-

e 4 6.;,011 of ti‘ e tnillint,a *t ?
or Mach ronlgidvitstions, Ole f)nlery cl thl6 elytlntly
had ronsirleraht) tr. ckd to at _Val ate the 4!iArt *a is
of tiet• t:olotiist:,. in enter to ,4r,port Its tarn)ing
trade to tirrat Britato. o the !.ourecti
of its nasal greatneiiu, A the enemy's
hare L.ce tdke puise-411 {i/

jesty's troops. Hence a competition has arisen,
which has tended to lower the price of those arti-
cle*, the produce of our own islands.. and, under
the present circumstances, to add to the difficulties
which the glut of those articles, for the Want of a
market, has 'produced. Such impediineitu and
evils to colonial prosperity have arisen from the
success of that policy which had been wisely acted
upon for the general advantage ; but surely, on
every ground of justice and fair dealing, the colo-
nies, in their turn. hove a right to look for compen-
sation out of that general interest which has been
so materially advanced at their particular expense.
At least the landed interest ought not to be the
first to complain, in possession, as it was. of a mo-
topoly, which the fortuue of war had thrown into
its hands.
General GASCONNZ could not reconcile the
speeches either of the friends or opponents of this
Measure with the rumours which were, throughout
the whole of that day. circulated, with respect to a
compromise having taken place on this question.
He declared his surprise at the usode in which the
Noble Lord attempted to defend the Report of the
Committee, and the measure which 'lie hoped
would be grounded upon it. Had the colonists and
cultivators of the Wert Indies no intrinsic claims
for relief ? and was the measure only to lie advo-
cated on the alleged apprehension of a scarcity ?
Ile owed it to the great commercial port which lie
eeprmented, to stand forward as the advocate of a
deacriptiou of persons, who had long been the
victims of the rapacity and injustice by which the
anther country had profited, and by which these
very advocates for the high price of provisiolis had
aisle considerable additions to their fortunes and
rentals. He was convinced that the alarm of seer-
eity was excited only to awaken the prejudices of
the people against en alleged discouragement of
agriculture, and to defeat the pressing and just
claims
,of those deserving and long-suffering pes-
SOils, the West India Planters.
Mr. Goocu did not conceive it was either im-
perative or necessary for him, es One of the landed
interest, to defend that respectable body from the
imputations cast upon them liy the avowed advo-
este of the SAyeTrale. He felt sincerely for the
admitted distresses of the colonists; but though
sientely sensible of their embarrautments, and
anxious to relieve them, he never could so far lose
sight of his duty, as to ground such measure of
relief span the subversion of the permanent and
Solid Interests of the country. It was not fer that
House, because it felt an anxiety to afford com-
pensation to the great body of West India pro-
pnetors, to sacrifice the agricultural interests of
the country, in order to support speculations
carried to an extent not regulated by the ordinary
liatib of 1 proper and justifiable precaution.
Mr. Was. Firsoenstoi (Member for
a clear and eloquent speech, commenter, upon the
emtrest so glaringly manifested between the re-
port of the Committee, and the speech of the No-
Ile Lent who was its Chairman. The Report re-
emminendiug tl e measure for Great Britain, at the
awn time seated reasons conclusive on the Ma-
tey of extending it to Ireland. On that past of
rebe eettainly had not a ditfereut ;
%ser Was with feeliage of surprise he least a fol-
Preen reconsoten I ttirsu to that Unites to restrict
the importation of Irish spirits into this part of the
.kindons. When such a manifest breach of the
articles of Union was recommended to that House,
IA could set sit silent without, in his own omit
being guilty of that which. he trusted, never a
Pe ettnbuted to him, lamely, an abdication of
honour and duty of au (rich Hepreseutative.-1-
It since turned out that the objection on that,l
ground was removed, and the less one substi-
tuted.ofextending this ruinous measure to Ireland.
The report itself had furnished the objections to
that substitution. and he, therefore, was not a
little surprised to bear the Chairman of the Com-
mittee. who drew up that report. propose a mea-
sure against which it so emiclueively argued. lie
felt it his duty to state to the House, that he had
alone risen in behalf of the interests of that roun-
try with which be was accjiminted. and expressed
his determination, if it should accede to the inn-
tion for going into a Committee, to move, as an
amendment to the resolution which he presumed
would be proposed, to lewye nut the words" I' cited
Kingdom, and substitute " Great Iliitain."
The CHANCELLOR of the ENCHI:QUER adverted
to the insimation of a compromise, which had been
thrown out by the Hon. General ,Galiceyne). Ile
declared his own ignorance, and that of his Noble
Friend near him, of any such understanding having
taken place. And certainly, if there was any dis-
evedit in being supposed a party to it. the Hon.
General had totally acquitted himself of such an
accusation. In his conception of the question, lie
should first carry iu his head the paramount in-
terests of the agricultural body of the country.---.
Still there was this consideration for the noose
to ascertain, whether, under the present state of
our foreign relations, and with the existing pros-
pect of a scarcity at home, it might not be con-
sidered an act of sound legislative policy to tarn
those circumstances to the relief of our colonies, at
the same time that a proper precaution was mani-
fested for MIS domestic wants ? lt.was also worthy
• of particular notice, that the remedy revommend-
esl was of a transient and temporary description,
subject to the discretion of the Ctown, to suspend,
either when the evil against which it went to pro-
vide was totally dissipates!, or when its continu-
ance inirded the more important interests of
the snot r country. With respect to what had
fallen from the Honourable Member (Mr. Fitz-
gerald), whom the House had that night heard
with such pleasure, and whom he world be
happy to hear on every question of general ini-
penal policy, as well as upon those subjects which
more immediately applied to Ireland, he had
dos observation to make, that it was the general
feeling of the House to view the iotertsts of Ire-
hind with the alone regard as those of (:reat Brit on.
It was from the isiflueure of that feeling that it at
note gave up any measure of policy, which, boa.
ever replete with advantages. .01 had the insur-
mountable objection of violating the Articles of
Union. The state of the two coil:ones was now
so closely iuterwoveia, that oath noon speedily and
inutually participate either in the pleety or the
distress of the ...corr. It was evident from the tes-
timony of those who were opposed to the measure
lib._ recometeuded by the Report, that there was great

apprehension of scarcity. Mr. Arthur Yowl had
stated iu his evidence, the great deficiency of the
lust ) ear in the barley crops; and the Douse bad it
from the miqueetioaable authority of the Ho-
nourable Baronet (Sir John
~ Sinclair) that a
great degree of scarcity existed in the Nor-
thern part of the empire. In Ireland, the crops
of potatoes, which, it was notorious, were the ge-
neral sustenance anti food of the great mass of 'the
people in that country, bad, in the last year, very
materially failed ; and, front the lute frosts, during
the present spring, there ails not the probability of
an early harvest in that necessary article of life.—
The consequence was, that the people would, for
their necessary food, draw uFon oats, and therefore
it was but the exercise of a Te.terual relief to extend
the reetriition agaiast the distilling from corn to
titet country. There certainly was an objection,
which, at all times strong, must appear particularly
so to a person in his official siteanon, lie meant a
decrease of the revenue. Bet hi this case he had
but one line of duty to follaw, and by meeting such
objection in the only way which it eier had or
could be met. Such was the nature of the appro.-
housion aguiest which the ionise had to provide,
that no consideration of revenue, nor indeed of any
other principle, could interfere with the miens of
guarding against such a melancholy realization.
Mr. l'oxsoonv assured the Douse, that, for his
own part, he never felt more surprise this at the
manner in which the proposition had been intro-
duced. The Noble Lord stated it was wholly a
British question, and he believed it; lint on readiaig
the resolutions proposed to he read by the Noble
Lord, he was obliged to form quite a different
opinion. It Mkt:led Ireland most materially ; it
tended to the ruin of the landholders of that part
of the empire. As to the argument of the Flom
Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) in
answer to his thou. Friend (Mr. William Fitzgerald)
he ought to be cautious in holding out to the peo-
ple of Ireland, that the house of Cominous would,
for the sake of convenience, do any thing to violate
the Articles of the Union. It ciao dangerous in its
nature; audit did not became one of His Majesty's
Ministers to hold out an idea that the most
sacred obliations between the two countries could
lie for a conveidence innovated upon. The lion.
Gentleman lied said, the high price of grain war-
ranted the measure ; in his opinion, it had nothing
to do with it ; for the farmers, es well as persons in
other occupations, had a right to take advantage of
the high prices of their produce, and to have the
benefit of a high market. The landholder ass WS
much Plaided to it as the iihipholder, and were they
to be deprived of this for the sake of the produce of
the 11'e4 India colouiet ? Were not the littidholilent
the great actual strength of the country in the great
contest in which we are 'wawa! ? When every
other,resource failed, they found in them one Au
_,
nature that would make the country Sourish in
4spite of the whole world. What were the prices„
of greiu io Ireland *Wit warranted the interference of
the Legislature, or justified the supposition of a fa-
mine iii that country ? On the toth of last month,
Wheat was sold in Dublin market at las. barley
17s. ad. and oats 175. No pewee acquainted with
Ireland could say that was a price to warrant the
interference of the Ltaislature—(A lot* cry mi
hear! hear!). lie acknowledged it was not a
very entertaining statement, but it was a very ite-
‘cessary Wee; aid dull as it might apples. to be,
' opt a paper in his hand lie could prove, that on
a last market day in Dublin wheat had faller'
L:s ti
hillings. The lioounthle Secretary had
evl a vast deal of confidence in tls, evidence
• Mr. Sean. a person wile. he believed, had a
place in the reyeaue. lieu by his evidence
before the Castnilttee, there could not I,e an
Ire for the idea of a scarcity in that country.
e positively stated, that the scarcity of grain did
nut continue in Ireland. The evidence of the lion.
Member for the town of Wexford. Mr. Neville,
stated, that iii and about that towii, from the best
information, there were twone t, sheds of grain.
If the Colonies wanted assistance, Ministers ought
to come forward with a proposition for their relief,
which would not endanger the interest of the land-
holder. lit conceived it would :oe the best mode
for Ills Majesty's Ministers to give up the propo-
sition, awl to think of some kind of relief for the
Colonies, that would not affect the most respect-
able part of the inhabitants of the mother country.
Sit ARTHUR Weataistear thought it was Twee.-
sary to stop the distilleries in Inland ; for he be-
lieved the distress for grain in Ireland was greater
than the people of England could conceive. The
harvest failed more that, one-third. The !mottoes
had completely failed, a Inch obliged the inha-
bitants to have recourse to grain fur theiraupport.
The Right liunourable Gentleman (Mr. I'onson-
by) hail stated, that grain had fallen in Dublin ; if
it was the fact, it was singular that the Mayor of
Drogheda and of Belfast should have preseuted
Memorials en the Lord-Lie uteneot ni Ireland, pray-
ing that he might stop the distilleries. Mr. Swan
had not been in Ireland since January ; and it WWI
impossible he could be comiwtent to judge of the
quantity of grain in that country on the 18th of
March last.
Colonel Mowv,:omsay contended, that the po-
tatoes had failed 10 Slifil SO exteut in Ireland, that
if the distilleries were not stopped, there was not a
doubt but a famine must none. This beim.; his
opinion, he would vote for the proposition of the
Noble Lord.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT admitted, that in the North
of Ire'and there had been a partial scarcity, but
the South of Ireland had been fully able to supply
it. The chief article that hail fatleil aas poritOf,,
and the measure proposed was OA to take effect
until July next, when the fresh crops mould be iii,
and it mould become perfectly useles. So far
from there being a scarcity in all parts of Irelatel,
the city which he had the honour to rept-recto,
(11 tart ford) bad, since last October, exported
leis quarters of oats to this country; and alien
the Inch price ass in the north, ante ally
ouly at 14,. in Waterford, and weer varied
wore than intl. He depreeateil the measure, as
one tending to take away the infante of feeding our-
selves. De believed the interference ..f Cie Legis-
lature was dangerous ; fur if the tilling fanner l-a.:
not an opportunity to take advantage of I!. • iii.,:,h
pri..c, as well as the low' he would it it till the
.maul at all, lost turn his hold to some other
pt:rpose, that a culla more amply ref ty 1 • .
The fallacy of the Iloaeurable lieatleuou's wan

arguments.ought to coovinee them, whim they ac-
knowledge that sugar has risen in price, and that
grain has &lien ; tins would not bear them out
in the idea of a scarcity. On every ground he de-
precated the measure, as it was cutting ills the
root of the tillage system. 11e was willing to as-
sist the distresses of the colonies, but lie believal
these distresses were occasioned by the heavy du-
ties and restrictions. These were the actual causes
of the distregs; for if they were to take them off,
Wed India produce would lie sold at a cheap rate,
and the consumption would become greater, as a
greater number of persons could afford to con-
sume it.
Sir Aarhus. Wat.t.rsLase spoke in e xplailati on.
. .
Mr. ELLISON supported the proposition, nn
the ground that the Committee Mad made every
nece.isary inquiry before they made their Report,
and he felt uoidident that the country would be
benefitted by it.
Admiral Hmt city was disposed to support any measure
fur the relief of the West ludia Merchants, but he thought
that the meaus ought to be &applied equally from every
pact of the community, and that they shotilii out be laid
partially %moo any particular clam of men, as was proposed
by the present plan.
Me. FOIITFR said, it should be resnetulaveil that the sari-
enitarist must have • market for the red lanry of
his
trope, and if that was pretested, be would nut continue
gem iitg the quantity he did at pretest; fusilier%) he had the
exportation to take of his surplus ; now he had only the
diattlkr and brewer; and if these were prohibited, hr must lay
down his tillage land ; hat be liaised the House would re-
jest the reenactment, which hail never before been allow-
ed, mud not trust to a Report cutaiug directly trout the West
India Interest in that Howe.
Mr. It • out II raid, the conduct of those who supported
this unnatitral measure, was like that of • hen hatching a
brood of ducks. They tient introduced it to relieve the West
India Planters from their evergreen stork on hand, but
the llontourabletieutlemas (Mr. Ellison) had taken upsnew
grimed ; he bud fend 1.111 a prospect of • great seareity in
the crepe, unit brings it iu like Bayes s army il. disguise, pre-
teudiug it to he only a temporary measure; but he would
warn then. mast too muck meddling with the agriculture
of the country. To be sure, it it were necessary to lower the
prime of grain, by hanging a few farmers, it might be dour •
but there *amid be very few another year. He emeludea
by sae big, theme disillusions would tend to ruin the price of
core, by crealiug an alarm anions the people.
Sir (*.nate tea Bt nee Lt. said, he had been told by • high
mithority, that brown sugar was is many places the only
thing that emild be used by the pour, as a substitute fur
'wer. His constituents were not advocates fur high prices,
but only wished for a retuuneratiug price.
Lord CAIITLERF AUL. stn. nuowsly supported the usestiow
As an argument in favour of the measure be asserted that
the price of grain was at premed higher than in the scarcity
of 1795, and as high as in the scarcity of moo, when the
distilleries were prohibited. Add to this, we had not et pre-
sent any prospects of a foreign impart, sir that soy measure
that fouled to haslet:id unr present sources of supplies was
advisable to adopt.
Mr. JOIVI Salta supported the measure. The greatest
possible calamity that could Laid any country was a scarcity
of corn. It must beconeitlered, that fur the last eighteen
year% a very large importation of that article had taken
Adore, sad we ought to pruvide fur the cousequences that
might as Ise from our being deprived of all foreign sources.
There were already a great number of persona deprived of
employ, so that we bail nerd to guard against the additional
calamity of scarcity. lie kucw of one instance, within these
lost six weeks, where nu lest than 1000 permits had been
thrown out of work from one manufactory alone. lie really
believed too that the West ludia Planters were a must in-
jured set of people tad that Rune measure was nee-emery
fur they relief. The wife a of this premien niesseire would
lie to retiree hob of these descriptitss of individuals, and
be att end, it with generally beneficial cosseemeuces.
Sit litallY Mt spoke against the 'sewn,* ; and
stated as average of the prices acute for enteral years, in
order to *kW that the supporters of it were not juietified is
using such arguments in favour of their measure, front the
state of these prices. If, however, the House proceeded into
a Committee, he Amid then take an opportmaity of proposing
same alteration in regard to the period.
Mr. Alderman Hr said this Illealnife Itila expressly
recommended by the Committee, after an inquiry lute the
same subject bait taken place in tool, and therefore it was
impossible that they 1:011111 have reconeeneksl one so totally
different from the former recommendation, bad they wet
seen that the circumstances of the times made that alters-
then almolutely lecemary. These circumstances were the
changes that Mad taken place in the furtive relations of the
conetry, which nue deprived us of a supply of grain. If
we did rut emit that supply formerly, why del we take it ?
If we did want it, was it possible that any Ministry could
be justified iii sitting calmly, and viewing with cinupo-
i sure, the consequences likely to arise from the country
being deprived of that supply in futon:. He could assure the
Hulse Mai there was no jokiiie eith the belly Our rummy
had aimed two Mows against us, in depriving is of the
markets fir prucuriug supplies of grain, and of 11 market for
our Sugars.
Mr. We. SMITH said, hi- hail sat upon the Committee for
two menthe, mad could not help repressing his surprise that
the Noble Lord had brought forward such a measuie. lint,
inupteetinaubly, this was not a measure of the Committer,
which ass imitator.' for the purpose of prupoeitg re-
lief to the West India Merchants, as they indeed rim-
ed to be left mstirely rest of the gni +Mitt Hs objec-
tion to the measure one, diet, as to the West Inches, it
was Mille, sod as to searck it was %uric thou uothisig.--
Our importation of (urn hail been hitherto more thin
700,ti00 gamier% but be argued that no scarcity ean to he
apprehended. Ile ehould like to know what elicit chid
measure was likely to have he hire the next bai vest. It ens
only tellim the distilicre that they most stop diatilhinS
from grain to the tat of Jaly, , the very time &lend which
they %timid have dime so, eitheut any restraint ehatrv,r
The cousemienve of this inta.mc would he, to produce
scarcity instead of preventiug it, as Om ilistieere would raw
move grain between this time sad the Ist 'testy, than they
otherwise would have done.
Mr. M s u,nLM LAING. brat i t support of the motion.
laird B. s %Ist; shortly, in reply, shwived, that the mea-
sure be hail hail tha honour of submitting to the considera-
tioo of that Blouse, was one whirl& it would More berm pro-
per to have adopted, even if the West Indies had mace
ridged. But, assured the House, the West Indies were
not out of his consideration, and expressed himself a friend
to their trade. Ile certainly was tar trots tbinkiug this mea-
sure unineresary for Ireland. On the contrary, be thought
it as urciesary to that country as to this. The only obstacle
could mire Guns the Articles of the Union. Ile concluded
with observing, that he felt his case wee plitely made
out, and that his opinion was not in the least altered hy any
thing that had leen said upon the other side of the House.
Strangers were them ordered to withdraw, and the House
divided,
dyes
Isms
Majority iti favour of Ministers .. —ll
The House then went into a l'ommit tea, pre former, and the
Chairman ida mined leave 10 sit again.
The t* tee on the Local Militia was postpused.
'I he other Orders of the I tay were deferred.
Ailjouruiat at HAL/ PAra 101 a WI LULA.

It is repartcd, on the authority of a letter re-
ceived et Falmouth, from a seaman on board the
Priner Ernea packet, that 011 the 19th of Mardi
She eeoged and beat off a French privateer, after
an aletiwi of three hours. The Captain and two
seanien wounded, and the packet so much
injured, as to he obliged to go into pod,: to be re-

paired.
Th•,df.^'io, Rosi nrs, from Cardiff, for Lon-
don, is rut into Portsmouth, dismasted, having
Leen run foul of by a frigate.

THE,. BRITISH PRESS.

LONDON,
FRIDAY, MAY 20.

The Gottetiburgh Mail, due on Sanday, arrived
yesterday, with intelligence from Sweden to the
11th instant. It has brought an official report of
the surrender of Sweaborg, with a considerable flo-
tilla in the harbour, tothe 11119$ia114. The conven-
tion for this purpose stipulates, that the flotilla is
to be restored to Sweden upon the conclusion of
peace, provided England restores the Danish fleet
to Denmark• ; and it also indirectly recognizes the
Proclamation of the Emperor ALEXANDER, incor-
porating Finland with Russia. The surrender of
Sweaborg, and the terms of the convention, hare
excited great indignation in Sweden, and Adinital
CaONSTEDT, and the officers forming his council
of war, who acquiesced in it, have been dis-
missed the service. The Swedish Head Quar-
ters is Finland were still at Ltunijocki, on the
Cnth of April. Sir J. SAISMAZEZ, in the Victary,
arrived at Gottenburgh on the 7th ; and Colonel
MURRAY, who was on board her, immediately pro-
ceeded to Stockholm. The contents of the Mad
are given iu the first page.

We yesterday announced the a-rirtil of Capt.
Scitom.Y, of the Sukbay, with di-patches for
Government. They are from Sir SYDNEY Sutra,
at Rio Janeiro. Ile iv also, we understand, the
hearer of the Commercial Treaty between this
Country and the Portuguese Government, now re-
iideat in the Brazils.

Yestermley-, Her MAJESTY completed her 64th
veer, which 'was agreed to be celebrated in a pri-
vate manner, by the assembling of the whole of
the Ito! at Family, and a select !lily of friends, at
Windsor. The Duke and Duchess of Volta ; the
Dukes of CUMBERLAND, KENT, SUSSEX, and
CA:4BIIIPM ; LOUIS SOMERTILLUIWAIST.H6LEIVIS;
and Generals GARTH, HARcocr.T, and I)AILIN,SJ.
rived on lVethiesdity evening and yesterday moonl-
it', early. At teu o'clock, His MAJESTY, the
Dukes of Tons, CUMBERLAND, KEST, amp
CAMBRIDGE, PritIC(SSeS AUGUSTA, SOPHIA, and
AMELIA* atcompanird by Lords SOMERVILLE, St.
liEl.Es's, Mr. BULKELEY and Lady. and Generals
GARTH. GAAS( S NE, HARCOURT. FITZROY. sod DM.
KI S. rode on horseback in Windsor Park till past if.
when His AIAJESTY returned to dinner. The
Royal I)ukes and Princesses wetit to Froguiore to
meet I ler MAJEsTY and the Princesses ELIZABETH
awl MARY. They remained there till past three ;
and returned to time Palace to dinner at four
o'cicx:k, when the Prince, the Princess, and Princess
CHARLOTTE of WALES, and Duke Of CLARENCE,
had arrived.
The Mimerra, which is arrived firm Madeira,
spoke on the 30th ult. the fleet for the East Indies,
all well, between Porto Sento and Madeira.
A report prevailed on Wednesday at Deal, said to
have been founded upon intelligence received by a
boat which lad made its escape from the Island of
NValchereu, and arrived in the DOWEIS late on Tues-
day night, that a British squadron had entered the
Scheldt, and taken Flushing. There was a similar
report on Wednesday at Dover. We give it merely
as site'L
• A letter of late date reached town on Wednerlar,

front the Coutiuent, which contains the followiliK
intpurtant iuforu►etion, tut we do nut vomit fur its
authenticity
You will be surprised to hear, that the Porte haw resolved,
after all, to declare itself in favour of England. The Turkish
Government, after havinx been threuteued and cajoled by
tuna by the French Minister, in order to induce it to join
France and her Allies, to which it was ti) no means imdis•
pu•ed, has Neu at length driven to adopt ao opposite
resa-
lotion, from the extent of the demands mods uptm it."
The particular point which, tt is said, determined
the ( ;ILAN D SIGNIOR to resist, was a demand, that
the French army should be penoitted to pato, titre'
his territories, on their march to India. Coatiers
wer• sent from Constantninple with the intelligence
to Vienna and Paris, at both of which places they
must Live arrived snort• time.