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London, England, 1825-04-30 00:00:00

I

objects connected with it, and feeling somewhat exhausted and
tail, as he might naturally be expected to feel, he should not,
spunk the House on the present occasion at any considerable
wore especially as a %lanai had just been given by an lion.
•;jr°,,"bee opposite, who had been so long watching, or rather elects.
ag over this question--a signal that he was not to delay chi House
way long portion of time. From the deep interest he had tarn
• nay thing connected with the grand question of Catholic Emanci-
too, and from the pan he bad considered it his duty—his painful
e—to take last Tuesday, when he delivered his opinion contrary
to diat of many of his lion. Friends, when he felt he owed u in
;,once to his own consistency to say a few words in explanation of
ise grounds on which he had upon that °cession voted, he had
nit that there was no difficulty m the way of comprehending
the question relative to the forty shilling freeholders, and that
was coupossed by no obscurity. The Catholic question
0, a quesuon that had been often considered—one, the
„foricty of which, upon reasonable principles, hail been de-
l:Aid upon long ago, and was familiar to all. But as long as his I
opulence served him, from the time that Mr. Fox first brought
that question forward, 20 years ago, to the present moment, he hal
never head it discussed without sonic allusion to the propriety of
ying It with the proposal of some provision for the Roman
rsr,„TrClergy ; admitted, it was true, by many, and denied by
others, but still showing its relation to the grand question. He
fished that the House had gone through all the stages of this
rod question, without suffering others to cross their path ; but as
Jose Gibers had been brought forward, he felt himself called
sou to give his opinion as to their merits, finding that the mit d
the House had been made up not to consider them separatel,.
pie present principle appeared to him so clear, that lie was per-
Nay prepared to give has vote in support of it. lie felt he nitght
kallowed to say that io consequence of the way in which the Res°.
lawn now before the House was worded, no Honourable Meet.
m could object to give his vote in favour of It, on the grounds that
the sum requisite for the payment of the Catholic Clergy ought not
as be paid by the Protestants of this country. Such an argument
fors.W the olniectioa of the Honourable Member (Mr. Creevey)
wko had spoken last ; but the Br solution prescribed no particular
sooner is which this sum was to be raised ; it did not in the least
degree paint out hew it was to be obtained; it merely recommended
a general principle, that the State ought to make some provision
fur the Catholic Unrgy, stud if any one thought that the sum pro-
NW, by the Noble Lord (F. L. Gower) for such provision was too
large, that person was at perfect liberty to propose that it be di.
win -heel. The Resolution did not necessarily bind the House to
;liege:toting of any sp-cide sum, and therefore, however any Ho-
norable Member might object to the sum pro'posed, he might
ell consistently give Isis vote for the principle. Nor did the
Raaltitioll state how inch rlugs was to be procured ; and It was
merefrre competent to any Member to point out the way
to which it ought to be dune, and to do so after having voted for
the principle. With respect to Ino.bcr objection that might
be made against the measure, ana which led to the consideration of
&subject of considerable importance—a subject which, when the
proposition was nest n ale, hail created in his mind very great
alarm, alarm which was wooded upon the evidence of the Roman
Catholic Bishops before k e Committee, andly that of some of the
lay nen who were examined—test it might place any additional
influence and power in the hands of the Crown. He would observe,
that all alarm upon this most Important point had ceased, for in
the Resolution there was nothing to dread in the least that any
slit measure was contempicted, or that any such results were to
be apprehended. Ile desired to be distinctly understood, and he
es sure he spoke the sentiments of a large majority of Members
es-his side of the House, that if he acquiesced in this measure he
dd it with the perfect understanding that it was to lead to 'no
anconstinuional and dangerous augmentation of the power of the
Executive, which was already too large—too large in England.
either in the Church or estate, or in the alliance of Churth and
hate, and too large in Inland, where the State had greater means
of corruption, and where tne Ecclesiastic was nit of all proportion
large—where there was already an alarming augmentation of power,
mod where there was an overgrown Government with an over-
grown Hierarchy. He considers! that any direct noroinatlon,
w any Veto that would put the Roman Catholic Priest under
tie power of the Crown, would be to increase the evils of
which he complained ; and if any such step were contemplated
by 114 Resolution, he should be the first to hold up his
hued against it; but such was not the case, nothing of the kind
wu repotted iv the Resolution. He would now say a few words
sato the argument that other Secta would be entitled to those advan-
Oars equally with the Catholics. lie did riot think that those who Ju-
gecl ror such an extension were borne out in their argnments, either
y sound reason or consistency. The Presbyterians had been already
admitted to a sintlhir advantage, and it was said that you have
firell them only 13.00(/. a•year, to which sum, however, he begged
to add B,oooi. more, making altogether a suet of 21.0001. annu-
ally. Now, if it were considered that the number of the Presby-
terian Clergy was so much less than !hat of the Roman Catholic
Clergy, the one being but 21) and the otioer 2,000, it would be
found that the prepared sum would pay the Catholic Clergy some-
what less in proportion than the Presbyterian Clergy were pa d
Is consistency then, lie was cot bound to extend the pros:don, nor
vas he, in sound reamoninc, bound so to do. because the Roman
Catholic population amount to Onween six and seven millions, and '
du Dissenters to net more t tint 500,000. But if we had six mil-
lions of Dissenters in this country, then he would say that it would
be expedient to make some provision for their clergy, and he would
propose so to do in the very same mode and on the very same ground
she would now propose a maintenance for thellomanCatholie clergy
is soon as this provision was made they would have fulfilled their
duty, sad ads till
_then. We were not by this measure called upon
to sappreft cowry-little sett that might spring up. If sec+ were
tin cue, they would soon a:e the followers of Joanna Southcote,
who, perhaps, amounted to a dozen, come and ask to have their mi-
tows provided for. This was not the case with Deland; it was not
for a small sect, but for the provision of the Clergy of by far the
roster body of the people. Itolote he concluded, he must protest,
thathecould not imagine any thing tnore dangerous to the great Cacho-
loQuestion than to admit that they were granting the provision as a
tenuity for the Protestant interest. He must deny its being intended '
as a security to the Protestant interest. He held it in the highest de
pee perilous to grant it with such an understanding ; for, if it was
gyen as a security, it wi td I seem to admit that there was a danger
of • hich he denied the existence. If once it was admitted, they
would in consistency be obliged to raise the security, if it should
prose insufficient to meet the danger. This idea of risk he had
always held in contempt ; it was in the mouths of those who de-
nied his principle, and said that danger did exist, to propose a mea-
sure of this sort, that their fears might be allayed ; but they had
no reed o' greater security than would be afforded by granting Ca-
tholic Emancipation. This would give us the hearts of the Irish
People, and be the means of establishing our dominion on the only
stare foundation on w: ich dominion could be secured.—(lieu,
hear.) _ _

Mi. PLUNKETT would trouble the House with very few ob-
orations in its pre rut eitattated state. Ile should not think of
hat all were it not for the br pittance of what he had to say. In a
Meat deal of what had fallen from the honourable Member who
tad jest sat down, he most entirely and perfectly concurred ; moat
particulaely in his last °Nervation. Ile also agreed that it was rot
dealing fairly to talk of the present measure as a security, which
would thus be used as an argumet t against the great Catholic mew.
wire. lie begged to address himself to that great body of the
31m.bers of that H•u.e who had telt themselves under the necessity
V opposing the measure of Catholic Emancipation. He begged
them to attend. The Hon. Memte • for Aberdeen (Mr. Hume),
hod talked of the injustice of these Irish Catholics being without
T''.gloll4 instruction. One of the great advantages of this mea-
n e w, 0, that by is adoption the danger that was talked of as re_
suiting from this circumstance was a .mpletely taken away. If the
Roman Catholic roe, with some appeirance of justice, complained
K hsvirg to pay tithes, &c. to support a clergy front which she
l'erited no benefit. It could be answered him, if this measure was
adopted, that his c'ergy was paid out of funds raised upon the Pro..
tenants, and that he could not therefore hare grmind for comphint.
lie therifore thought that the present sum proposed to be paid out
wouli render those on whom it was to be bestowed, instead of
enemies, the bu::ress and protection of the Established Church.
,/ilrongres were then ordered to withdraw, and the House divided,
when the appeared—
Per the Resolutien
Against it
Malisg a majority in favour of the Resolution to enabled 43
the Crown to provide for the Catholic Clergy of .
Mr. HERRIES gave notice, that Mr. Huskiason would on
Miriday nest move his Resolutions relative to bonded tern.
The other Orders of she Day were then disposed of, and the
Rouse adjourned at Ow o'clock.

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- 162

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ANGE YESTERDAY.

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