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tf.us, by invigorating him, resist the force, and
drive the French from that territory. From the
all of rippoo, the policy of the British Govern-
ment became quite different from what it had been
before. The Council, from that time, was to turn
its mind towards the extirpation of the French
from that quarter. We were then to consider
what was the objea, what was the conduct of the
French at that m:riod, and what was to direct Mar.
quis
Wellesley in his 'deliberations. We all knew,
that in the year 1798 the French made a footing in
EL.ept ' • we were well aware their main object was to
Alin a deadly blow at our Eastern possessions : their
close alliance with Tippoo, and all the other conco-
mitant circumstances, sufficiently explained their
intentions, and we were all satisfied India was not
out of their mind when they undertook that expe-
dition. Marquis Wellesley's mind was strongly
impressed with this idea, and with the conse-
quences which should follow. With respect to
France, he did not consider the connexion of France
ri,Libsstrss at all done away ; on the con-
tray, it was growing daily ; and, from the compli-
cated system of the Mahratta policy, it was impossi-
ble for any man to say how soon that sv ,:em might
be put in practice. If the cOuncilr of the Mahrattas
liadremained asformerly, and not put on thecouncils
and assistance of French officers, it might have been
otherwise. The French General Perron had orga-
taised such a power, that Scindia himself did net
ventere to oppose him, but gave up the contest.
Thirty or 40,000 under the Nizam, were in a state
of petted disciptine. Was it to be questioned, whe-
ther, after the peace, the French had sent emissaries
into that country, and if they were allowed to es-
tablish a connection with the Mahratta people, it did
not reqiiire much political foresight to discover
what might follow : Having stated thus much, his
Lordshas observed, that the whole change of the
complexion of the Mahratta Empire had made this
a new subject. The moment Marquis Wellesley
had found out the triple conne.ftion formed by
Marquis Cornwallis, he enlarged the principles of his
actions, and endeavoured to promote the interest
01 the British government with the Rajah ; he
conceived the necessity of that alliance, and
the impression upon his mind was, that if he should
persuade the Native Princes, that it was safer to
rely on the conneftion with the British Empire, than
join any other power, or war among themselves ; by
this means he might lead to the exclusion of the
French interest, and the policy or connection of
their situation might induce them to embrace such
a proposal. His Lordship agreed with the Ho-
nourable Gentleman, that a great question of ex-
pediency arose out of those circumstances; bur.
lions the avails then upon the table. it clearly
ie.:, lint a prop...i••on whit's p could then
de-i upon. The conduct of Maioti:s Wellesley
maso this matter would hand down his name to
por,-rity as one of the most wise and vigorous ot.
fisers that ever conducted Cue cnurcils of a great
naiion. The Governor General had not shewn a
bigoted adherence to the system of establishing a
(once:lien with the Mahrattas to extirpate the
French, hut lie modified it; and his Lordship coif-
tended, that the general charge made against that
system in the Mahratta empire by the Honourable
Gentleman did not cast any refleCtion upon the
Noble !siarquies condo& In the Mahratta Em-
pire there was a population of thirty-six mil-
lions under one head ; it was not necessary
therefore for the Governor-General to wait to con-
elude a treaty of the same nature of that of Hydra-
bad, with the Peshwa, until a communication was
bad with the Government at home. In the instruc-
tions to Marquis Wellesley, his Lordship was di.
reeled net to pursue that policy to a war; and as
the Peshwa was driven from his country, that was
the most likely moment to conclude a general peace
in India. The Hon. Gentleman had mentioned
the treaty of %mein, as an a.ct of aggression ; but
be did not :thew on what grounds it was so. The
Native Princes, so far from remonstrating against
it, fully acquiesced in the terms, and as far as ge-
neral intentions would go, Marquis Wellesley took
up the principle not to force that treaty upon the
power of that Prince; had Marquis Wellesley ailed
in any other manner, he would have abandoned the
interest of bit employers : and, throughout the
whole, there was a Sincere disposition upon his past
to accomplish his purpose without war, and he ma-
naged it in such a way as to give the benefit of the
Mahratta conneftion to this country: this view he
had taken of it in all his pacific negociations.—
The more extended question of arrangement there-
fore was, whether v:e were involved in war upon
just and fair grounds ? That the war was soccessful,
more than even the councils of this country would
allow, was certain. His Lordship trusted, that the
Hon. Gentleman would not espeft him ro go more
into the question: under the present existing circum •
stances, his Lordship thought he should not he jus-
tifiable in doing so ; it, however, appeared clearly.
that the subject matter in question could be traced
to the general policy of France, to shake our power
M India. His Lordship observed, that he had
omitted to make one observation respeaing the war
with Holkar in its proper place : the Hon. Gentles.
man, he said, had not justified his impeachment of
that war, it was not the materials furnished, but the
hostile intentions of Holkar which produced it ; and
there was nothing whatever censurable in the Go.
vernorGcnerarscondua ; and there was reason to an-
ticipate the :imposition that the war was commenced
on just
_grounds. His Lordship admitted the Go-
vernorseral should have transmitted documents
upon this subject, in order to see the grounds and
cot On of the commencement of hostilities, but this
was easily accounted for from the short period which
has
since danced. In conclusion, his Lordship
said, that the Him. Gentleman had not made any
case which could induce Parliament to come to any
decision upon the subjea If he had stated the par-
ticular point on which he meant to rely ; if he had
brought forward his propositions before the House
one by one, and not is an accumulated mass of ge-
neral matter and general censure, the House would
then have been able to come to some certain decision
upon the question : but, he conceived the Honour-
able Gentleman had discharged himself but ill in
this businesss ; he considera it a mere personal mo-
lion, for the satistaaion of the lion. Gentleman's
I mind, and could only be brought forward for
. purpose of general censure.
Earl TEmPLE said, he did not think, as the
Noble Lord who spoke last bad insinuated, that this

motion had been brought forward for the purpose.
of calling in question the Government of a Noble
friend of his, who was lately at the head of affairs
in India. if any such idea was entertained, he,
for his part, would be the first to hold up his hand
against it. He could not agree with his Hon.
friend, that because we had extended our domi-
nions in India, it followed as a necessary conse-
quence, that we thirsted for empire, and were re-
solved to obtain it by every possible means. Nor
could he agree that the establishment of a French
colony there would he a greater advantage to the
French, than the distribution of their troops through-
out the country, which, had it been permitted, would,
in his opinion, he likely to bverthrow our pos-
sessions in India SVith respra to the necessity
of the Mysore War, he per-teeny agreed with
the Noble Lnrd opposite to him, and went even
farther, for he thought the second was by no means
undertaken without cause. He also agreed with him
on the propriety of the conduit of the Marquis Wel-
lesley with respect to the settlement of the Mahratta
States. On the whole, he thought, if blame could
be attached to any, it was the Court of Directors
who chiefly deserved it. Then having entered his
protest against the idea of this measure being any
attack on the conduit of the Marquis Wellesley,
who, he said, being now on his way home, if any at-
tack were intended to be made on him. he would
readily stand forward to meet, and as readily repel
it. He concluded by declaring his intention of
voting for the previous question
Dr. LAWRENCE thought the statements of his
Hon. Friend were worthy of the strietest attention,
and most serious consideration, that the House could
possibly give it, being a question which involved no
less a number than thirty-two millions of p-rsons :
a number which WAS more than three times the
amount of the population of England. it surprised
him very much to heir the Noble Lord opposite
him (Lord Castlereagh) argue in the manner he had
done ; it surprised him much to hear him state that
his Hon. Friend had no right to look back to points
which were more remote, and took place at a more
distant period of time, merely because, as the Noble
Lord stated, he had not come forward at every in-
termediate step, and moved for those papers, and
that information, which might then have exisred.
He denied that this was any argument against
his coming forward now, with this very necessary
motion ; bur, even supposing it was, his Hon.
Friend had complied with it in every respeCt,
f I, to his knowledge, no one instance passed without
his calling for papers, and doing every thing that
could in any way be thon:it necessary. When the
power of Tippoo Sultaun was entirely subdued, we
were told we were then in perfect tranquillity and
security ; hut, hiving ro lived at the borders of the
Mahratta States. and seeing them at variance one
with aaother, it was thought prudent to use every
elf .rt that could be suggested to keep them disunited,
and tiaally to subdue them. The reasons stated
for this- by the Noble Marquis, who then held the
Government there. and in which be was supported
by the Government hest, rias, that the inhabitants
of the Mahratta States acre at that time. with the
avistance of French officers, training up their troops
after the manner of the Europeans. This was a
complete eontradiaion in the arguments of the
Noble Lord. as he had before actually agreed with
his Noble Friend, that the Mahratta discipline was
much better for them, and much more formidable
to us, in that sandy country, than any which could
be taught them by European officers. He denied
that the Peshwa had voluntarily entered into the
treaty, but had obstinately refused, until he was told,
if he did not, he must pay for the troops of ours,
which he had, and for which he was in arrears to
that the treaty of Bassein could not for a moment
be con-ittered as willingly entered into by the Pedr-
wa. He would also remind the Noble Lord, that
the peace with Scindia never had been carried
into effect, but that he had drawn his troops
' from the English army, and had actually join-
ed Holkar. He concluded by saying. that, as
' there was now a new Governor-General going over
to India, this measure should be adopted, in order
to chew the Native Powers, that it was not
the intention of this country ~.to continue the
praCtice they had for some time
.carried on, but to
assume their former resolutions, of not extending
their dominions. On these grounds he would give
his vote for his Hon. Friend's motion.

Mr. GRANT (an East India Direttor) spoke in
favour of the original motion. He said he was in
India doting the first Mahratta War, and was a
witness to the mischievous effetis of it. The ex-
pences entailed upon the Company by that war had
hung like a mill-stone round their necks ever since,
and they had felt its evil consegnences to the present
moment. Every extension of territory and dominion
carried with it a pr.spottionate increase of expences,
and the Company were losers in consequence of n,•tv
concluests. He should, therefore, vote for the
original motion.
Mr. HUDDLESTONE (another East India
Direttor) said, he was sorry the matter had been
brought forward, but, as it had, he wished to say a
few words on the subjedl. He adverted to a parti-
cular paragraph in one of the Marquis Wellesley's
dispatches, in which it is stated " that the policy of
the treaty of Bassein had received the approbation
of the Court of Direaors, through their Secret Com-
mittee," which, he said, must be a mistake of the
Noble Lord, for that the Direttors, in any matter of
that nature, had no more authority than any other
matt in that /louse. He paid a compliment to the
aative and enterprising spirit and genius of the Mar-
quis Wellesley on his first arrival in India, and the
consequent destruction of the Mysore Government ;
but it was easy to see in that destration the seeds
of future war with the Mahrattas, and in that he
seemed to him to have erred in departing from the
moderation of his predecessors. With regard to
, the present Mahratta War, he thought it highly im-
' line. The Chiefs of this Power, when united, are
very powerful, but prone to quarrel with each other.
Scindeah and Holkar would have played our game
' for us, but we had prevented them, by interfering
as we did. It could not be expeSed they would
agree to this treaty. The Peshwa was a fugitive in
our dominions, and, under such circumstances, the
I treaty was made with him, and, as such, it cer-
tainly could not reasonably be expetted, that it
would be acceded to by the other Mahratta
chiefs. He had the best opinion of the purity of
the Marquis ‘Vellesley's intentions; but had hoped

' that the disasters we had experienced 25 years ago,
would have deterred him from entering upon a si-
milar system of measures. If we are to keep all the
different powers in India under, can it be supposed
we shall be able to do it longer than while we stand
over them with bayonets in our hands ? For several
years past, as the Company have advanced in reve-
nues, they h..J equ.illy done so in expence. and it was
morally impossible to bear the drain of men that
would be necessary to keep so many millions of the
human race in subjection to us. No mall bean knew
than he did, the benefits, almost beyond calculation,
which this country migh►. derive from our possessions
in India, if affairs were managed with justice and mo-
deration. Its Majesty's Government, he said, had
shown their anxiety on that head, by their recent
appointment of the Marquis Cornwallis as Go-
vernor-General of India. This Nobleman was as
amiable in his character, as he was exalted in rank,
and was known by the native Powers to combine
within himself all that was just and good. Ile had
already convinced them that, while possessed of abso-
lute power, he was actuated only by inviolable honour
and the Most conciliatory disposition towards them ;
and he thought that a declaration of Parliament,
such as the Hon. Mover has brought forward, made
at this time, just as the Noble Marquis was about to
sail for India, would be a token to the native powers
that we wished, and intended an abrogation of the
present system, and could not fail of being attended
with the most beneficial effeetti. He would there-
fore vote for the original motion.
Sir T. METCALFE (an East India Dirednr)
differed in opinion from both the Hon. Gentlemen
who spoke Last. If Scindeah and I !olkar had not
been divided at Poonah, the consequence would have
been the consdidation of their several great powers,
and we should have had them both joined against
us. The Mahrattas had always had it in contem-
plation, ever since the death of Sujat Ul Dowla, to
extirpate the English from India. Madajee Scin-
deah had the same, and he thought the Marquis
Wellesley had the highest degree of merit, in being
able to frustrate their machinations, and by attack-
ing them separately, preventing those mischievous
consequences which a combination of their powers
could not fail to produce.
Mr. C' lAPMAN (another East India Director)
spoke in favour of the original motion. He said,
that the moment they entered into a treaty with the
Peshwa, they must expel a war with the Mahrattas.
He had been resident in the country of the Rajah of
Berar, and there the Peshwa was not allowed to be
the supreme chief over the other feudatory chiefs.
Scindeah and Holkar could never be expected to
agree to the treaty, and he thought, therefore, it
was very impolitic to enter upon t. The war was
very expensive, and he was afraid would be pro-
dudive of considerable mischief to the Company's
affairs.

Lord CAST I.F.REAGH explained.
Mr. PR INS EP congratulated the Honourable
Mover on the persevering industry with which he
had always exerted himself relative to East India
affairs, and as they had now been brought under
consideration of the House, he hoped they would
go on and sift them thoroughly. On the present
occasion, however, when a Noble Marquis was on
the eve of setting off for India, to take on him the
supreme command and government of the country,
he did not wish such a declaration as that moved for
by the lion. Gent. should be voted by the House,
as he was afraid it would be the means of fettering
and binding up his hands, at a time when he ought
to be left at full liberty to ad in such manner as to
himself should seem most proper. He should there-
fore vote for the previous question.
Mr. R. THORNTON supported the original
motion. He said, that so far from fettering the
Noble Marquis who was now going out, he
thought it would have a direct contrary tendency.
The objet of the Noble Marquis in going out
was certainly the opposite to the system which had
been pursued by the other Noble Marquis. He
looked upon them as the sword and the olive
branch; such a declaration as that now moved for
would hew that Parliament are determined on a
dereklion of the late system ; arid it would shoe:
the Marquis Cornwallis, as well as the native
powers in India, that you do not send him out
merely as a common Governor-General. but that
the country may derive advantage from that
conciliatory disposition which is so much wanted
to heal tha wounds which, he thought, had too
rashly been inflieted there. If we were to hold
India, and to keep the French out of it. we must
not think of doing either by the sword, but by con-
ciliating the minds of the native powers, and con-
vincing them that justice and moderation should be
the future rule of our condo& towards them. No
one could deny that Marquis Wellesley had aced
with great energy and a.livity. In his opinion
the Noble Marquis was too active, too energetic,
and too enterprising. On the death of Tippoo, it
was generally supposed that peace for ever would
be the consequence; instead of which, war suc-
ceeded to war, and there was every reason to appre-
hend that they would be the means of inspiring the
Native Powers with an inveterate hatred of the Bri-
tish name and charader.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
rose and observed, that after what had been said by
some of the I ion. Members who had spoken lately,
he begged to call the attention of the House to the
statement made by his Hon. Friend, on which he
grounded his motion fur the previous question.—
The declaration moved for by the Honourable
Gentleman, in one point of view, might be very
unobjedionable. So far as it we?.t to ,hew the opi-
nion of Parliament expreSsed in 1,-54.!, that an ex-
tension of territory and dominion, by means of un-
Lejust aggression, was not Ow intention or wish of the
Legislature, no one could fault with it ; but from
what had been said of this &arum in one part of the
Hon. Gentleman's speech, 44 that we should not be
allowed, in case of our being engaged in a just and
necessary defensive war, to make Any extension of
territoryor dominion,either as indemnity for the past.
or security for the future," he thought it was an ar-
gument fraught with the gp.atest absurdity. He
thought also, that it was unfair in another point of
view, in as much as it c inveyed a direa .ensure on
the conduti of the Marquis Wellesley, who had
atchieved a series of the must brilliant vineries in
India, and had Added more to the security of that
country than could almost have been supposed to
be possible in so short a space of time. The

,

r

~..... .

•

Right Honourable Gentleman then went into
a very long and eloquent eulogium on the No-
ble Marquis for the active promptitude and supe-
rior talents with which he hail entered into and
carried on the stcoiel sad late Mysorean war, by
the conclusion of vriiich he gave a deadly blow to
the power of the Fren.h in oiat part of India, and
gained a territory and length of sea-coast that must
prove a most valuable acquisition, and a very great
security to the territories of the Company. Still,
however, though he had done so much, he found
that a great deal still remained to be effected,
and that the Marhattas, instigated by the French,
were combining with each other in order to attack
us with the greatest possible effeet. He had, how-
ever, with a promptitude and wisfom which reflet-
ed on aim the highest honour, entered into a treaty
with the Nizam and the Pesbwa, and had frus-
trated all the crafty machinations of those vio-
lent and turbulent spirits Scindeah and Holkar ;
had broken and destroyed the remaining power of
the French in India, and had laid the foundation
of the future security and safety of that country.
It was also unfair, he thought, to endeavour to cast
this kind of censure on tile Noble Marquis, at the
present moment, because he was supposed to be on
his return home, and it was but fair that he should
be present when any charge of censure was
brought forward against him. The Right lion.
Gentleman expressed himself highly pleased with
the general ',train of eulogium in which so many •
Hon. Members had mentioned the chara&er of the
Noble Marquis who was soon to go out to India,
for whom no one had a higher respell, nor a more
exalted opinion of his numerous virtues, than he
himself entertained. He admired, as much as any
one could, the mildness and moderation of the
Noble Marquis, after having so gloriously termi-
nated the first Mysorean War. Rut Gentlemen
should recollect that that mildness and modera-
tion, owing to the violent and obstinate disposition
of the ruler of that country, had in some degree been
the occasion of the necessity of entering into the
second attack on Mysore, which had been so ably
and wisely conduCted by the Noble Marquis Welles-
ley. The Right Hon Gent. concluded a speech, into
which neither our time nor limits will permit us to
follow him at greater length, by saying that, under
all the circumstances of the present motion, as he
did not any more wan his Noble Friend wish or
desire to put a dire& negative upon it, he must sup-
port the motion for the previous question.
Mr. FOX said, that at so late an hour he would
not trespass at any !ength on the time of the House, 4
but he thought it impossible fur any one who wished
well to his country, to give a silent vote on a question
of this nature, especially after what had been said
by the lit. Hon. Gent. who had just sat flown. He
was perfectly Astonished at the language of the Rt.
Hon. Gent. Surely he cannot forget the resolution of
1782—What Was the meaning of it ? Why, that we
should not extend our territory or dominion in India.
Nothing could he more plain or simple there was
no mention of unjust aggressions; or any such ri.fi-
culoos ideas as a just and defensive war which should
entitle you to obtain an extension of territory, either
by way of indemnity or security. But, it seems, all
this .vrete to be excused or vindicated, because
you were afraid of the power of the French in
Indik. Had not the French the same power in •
the year 1782 as they had in t 797 ? And yet.
when the resolution was passed in 1782. no dread •
appeared re:lie:ling the French, though that power
was certainly as much to be dreaded in the
hands of the House of Bourbon, as it has been in
any of those who have succeeded them. But, said
the Rt. Hon. Gent. why urge the resolution now ?
For the best reason in the world—because policy
requires it. The system which was then so wisely
And so nnanimously adopted had been broken in
upon and almost done away, and the consevence
was, that the Company's affairs were every day
growing worse by the enormous expenses which
successive wars brought on, and which always kept
at least an equal pace with the extension of territory.
It had been said in the course of the debate that this
resolution would be fettering and binding the hands
of the Noble Marquis, wbo is soon to go out
to India. He thought otherwise ; nay, he was
convinced that it would have the effect of for-
tifying and strengthening his efforts Why does he
go out ? At' his time of life it cannct be for
the sake of emolument of any kind, nor from any
aspiring motive of ambition. The Noble Marquis
has long since acquired fame suffi lent to gratify the
most ambitious mind. It cannot be for the purpose
of active and vigorous warfare. No : the Noble Mar-
quis knows very well that he is to go to India
to re-establish a system of moderation and justic' ;
and, knowing that his efforts to that desireable
end must derive considerable assistance and advan-
tage by carrying out a convincing proof to the na-
tive powers, that it is the wish and determination of
Parliament to ad up to that system which he is espe-
cially appointed to restore. Every circumstance
spoke strongly in favour of the motion of his Hon.
Friend. Three Gentlemen in the Direftion of the
East India Company had spoken on the subje4t
with great clearness and ability from their personal
knowledge of the country, and they all tell you,
that if you had every inch of India in your pos-
session, it is of such immense magnitude that it
would drain you of the blood and resources of the
country, and ultimately ruin it altogether, by an ex-
haustion which it is not able to boar. Rorie
became the mistress of the world, he said, by
defending herself When other powers quar-
relled, she engaged in self defence. No man is
absolutely safe from harm, while there is anotlrier
man near him that may knock him down—so
with nations—we are always atraid of tbe-French,
and so we shall continue to be as lung as they have
a man or a ship, and there are native powers with
whom we are at variance in latish. lie thought
no man so fit to carry the resolution into eTeeFt, as
the Noble Marquis who is going out ; and As such
the motion of his Hon. Friend had his entire sup-
port and approbation.
Mr. FRANCIS said a few worrit, denying the
fad of the argument, that the resoliskin would fet-
ter the hands of the Noble Marquis. He agreed
with Mr. Fox that it *gad strengthen is:-
The question being loudly called, a
place. For * priviosu question 106.—,
46-.• Majority 59.
At HALF-PAST ONE u'Clock the
journal till Meeday.

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6.—.Apkun n
the H.eusts al.
.........A