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London, England, 1819-11-24 00:00:00

rrnspect now before the country wit extremely
disheartening, unless the corm-five wisdom of
Parliament interfered to check Ministers in their
mail career. The Ministers had issued their
instrurtionts to arm flue part of the people against
the other, and if permitted to proceed, they
wouttl place this country in circumstances similar
to those which were experiesiced in Ireland, and
which terminated in destroying the independent
Legislature of that country. If they considered the
extent of the insurrection in Ireland, could they
have hoped to suppress it, had not the undivided
assistance of this country been eflOrtled to the
Irish Government; but should an insurrection lake
Ware to Great Britain to any thing like the same
extent, where could the Botts!' Government look
far tissistance ? The state of Ireland, bilked,
was tranquil ; but in the language of his Noble
Friend (t he Marquis Wellesley), it was the
trammillity of apathy. 'file discontent of that
contory was suppressed, but its sources were
not destroyed, and it could easily he excited into
slit active spirit of revolution. What would he
more likely to produce this 'flirt than seeing this
country in I stale of distr I.:a we had taught
the people of Ireland thi»iison, that they could
only extort fermi our fears.whot they could not oh.
tails front our liberality or justice. But this would
establish a reign of terror, and what Government
Et"ilil he free which depended for its support
the force of arms, or what people could he
treat wilful, had not liberty ? What would he the
character of t litscou wry were it deprived of liherty ?
Whet would give energy to its industry, or life to
its convoerce—or what inspire that desperate con.
rawr witich had been blazoned in every field in
Europe ? No mats had • higher respect than lie
cittertaitieil for the military skill of the Noble
Duke (Wellington) opposite, but be would appeal
to him, whether he had not sotnetitnes found him.
•r If reduced to circumstauces friiin winch he would
hove foimil it difficult to extricate himself,
NV rke fe not supported by the velour of men who
under the Collniommess of haring rights anti
liberties secured to them by the British Constitu-
t —(Hear, hear.)—Butt to none in the State was
the existence of liberty of more importance than to
+lie Monarch himself, for compare the security en-
joyed by the proudest despot, even that of the Em-
peror of Rama in the midst of his guards, with
.t hut of the British Monarch, surrounded by a free
people, and bow enviable must the situation of
the latter be considered ? He felt the necessity
sX supporting the existitig instituting's, but this lie
thought might be done effectually by the existing
laws. If a new danger arose which these laws did
tau meet, he was not prepared to raty that he should
re:ert the consideration of atiy Hew measures, but
lie hittl ri fleeted upon every possible case that °t-
it-smelt:lo him, and he could contemplate Hone
wl ich, in his 'Mud, justified any additional re.
ottictions upon the general sum of liberty. To
14e present Ministers in particular, he could not
intrust any e-xtraortlinary powers; but there was a
store pleasing duty which they had to perform,
and one wl:i.•h to his mind would be productive
of better effect. in allaying the ferment in the
tiii.,ll, whirl was to lend a willing ear
to all the complaints of the people, and rodeo-
tour to reduce their burdens and redress their
pfiievatrees ; so that if severity were necersary, it
whoold be tempered with conciliation, and no
ii jury should be stitlrred without the 'molder' ob.
twilit% an adequate redress. As a proof of the
init.-piny of the House, in their wishes to re.
inerly the public distress, he should submit fur
their acquiescesee • proposition, pledging them
to institute MS illeplity hall the state of the tie.
and mere peniesksly into the calamitous
It-vents which occurred at Manclutter.—(Hear,
kear.)—The Nebk Lord concluded by moving an
Amendment to the following effect :
"To assure kit Royal Highness, that, being milled to-
gether •t this period of unusual distress, this House will
proceed to take into its consideration the most effectual
means of repressing the attempts of all persons endeavour-
tog to mislead the labouring classes into projects incon-
sistent with the Constitution, sod the best interests of the
p tople.
To represent to his Royal Highness, that while engag.
ed to 11,14 oispory, it would he the duly of Parliament to
aplould tins just authority of the laws, and satisfy the people
Mast they stir possessed of important rights, which ought
to be pi erect' di. That this seems more particularly titer'-
5:.7,a. this fosse has seen, with deep regret, an attempt
sweetly windy at Manchester to prevent the exercise or a
most important privihge, and without prououncing an °pi-
ll:Al 110)11 this subject, they think it right that a diligent
awl impartisl inquii y should be instituted, to slew the un-
avoidable necessity of using force upon that occasion, and
le prate that nu important constitutional privilege could
ties be violated, nor the lives of his lajtsty's subjects as.
sailed with impunity"

•
Lord St DMOUTII rose. as he said. in consequence
of ►hr matinee in which the Noble Karl had alluded
to certain matters of which the official responsibi-
lity more immediately referred to him. The Noble
F.srl 111141 recognised the et►i.teuce of danger, and he
favoured the House with an exposition of its causes,
awl of the most effectual remedy fur removing
them. The causes, he haul affirmed, were to be
found in the reglect of its duties by Purim-
mesa. and in the want of a severe economy.

But during the last Session of Parliament, every
exert was made to reduce the military est*.
biltlontent to the smallest possible state, and not a
tiottentoroot voice was raited agAinst that 'orange-
merit. 'f he speech of the Noble Lord load for the
greater pain consisted of the transactions of Mail.
cl,evler ; but of this event he would say, that there
nw•srr was one on which so much exaggeration and
hbrhood• had heel. exercised as on this siobjtct.
Meal had been said about the bbigittrates of bloin.

cheater, and they had been called iitiperollary
Dla-
I;wnurtrs. void by the Crown ; hot these Magistrates
were unpainted by the Magistrates of Lasicaalsire,
unit no where were then a more honourable body

of men. There was one of them in particular. Mr.
lief, alio was aril known to several N ohle Lords in
bid Howe, viii who had been elected by the Ma.
pr•.tratrs Lancti,ier to be Chairmen of the Bench.,
The just and honimoible presumption of imii.kind
4.ught in hr iu tt.cir favour. It WWI well kilOWil
O:At in for I r•t Criminal Court of this country (the

Court if king's Bench), where Magistrates might
li.,se toreisteppeil the striet letter of the law, yet,
unless tin fe Wall any great and culpable negligence.
Visy were always treated with the greatest possible
todulgetice. Bait the presumption had been plac-
ed un the side of those who bad created the danger
.r that day. Considering how these men came
with banners and bands of music, matching

.~":

in military misty, declaring that they were deter.
mined to carry their object tnto effect (that object
heir/ nothing less than the subversion of the Go-
vernment), with caps of liberty and pikes—he
thought it was their duty to put the presumption
in revert of the Magistrates.—( Hear, hear.)—On
that dray, when notice of the meeting of the 9th
of August was given, the Megiatrates announced
that it was illegal, which clearly justified the Ma-
gistrates in dispersing that meeting, which was not
°oily an illegal meeting, but a treasonable one.
There was a still stronger ground that the presump-
tion aught to he in favour of the Magistrates : it
was this—all the bills of indictment that had been
preferred against those persons who were rppre-
broiled under their warrant, were found by the
Grand Jury. He must connect the case of the
Manchester yeomanry with that of the Manchester
Magistrates. It had been stated that the yeounsary
acted with a great deal of ferocity. That he denied ;
on the contrary, he affirmed, that the Manchester
yemnaliry did no tnore than their duty in siding
rod assisting the civil power. No one could doubt
but that a yeomanry soldier, a regular soldier, or a
constable, may make an intemperate use of his
suitioiity. With respect to the yeomanry, the
pre-irruption was, that iii an instance had they
justly merited the imputation which find been made
against them. All bills of indictment that hail
been preferred against them bad been rejected ;
besides which, all wanton acts of cruelty, of
which they hail heard so much. had been
completely negatived.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—
It had been stated, that a private in the 15th hus-
sars had iiiterpomd, and paved all unfortunate wo-
man from the sabre of a Nliencliester yeoman; that
;named to be false, for the Colonel, as soon as the
imputation was made known to him, called all his
men out. and publicly called on the soldier (if there
was a soldier who had so acted) to conic forward.
No soldier did come forward—(Hear, hear)—that
was another circumstance in favour of the yeomanry.
With respect to the legality of the meeting, he
would take upon himself to any, as well upon the
opinions of those who had been examined on the
interactions of that day, us those of the most emi-
trent authorities, that the meeting was not only
illegal but treasonable.—( Hear, Gear.)—On the
Wednesday 'nursling, Nlr. Hay and another gen-
Ileman came to Loudon, for the purpose of giving
information to his Majesty's Ministers of the trans-
action, ut a Cabinet Council, which was held, and
at which lie and several of his friends attended, arid
these persons made their statement. in the presence
not only of the members of that Cabinet Council,
but the legal advisers of the Crown. All the in-
formation they received oidy served to confirm the
opinion which was originally rntei tamed of the con-
duct of the Magistrates. The steps they took, of
arresting slr. Flout, was sifter their order had been
delivered, and he entertained no other opinion, but
that tkey hail correctly performed their dirty, and
they had declared the conduct of the Magnitrates
was completely justilied.—(Hear.)—He would ask,
whether, with that conviction in their minds, the
presumption ought not to be drawn in favour of
those who had hazarded their persons and reputa-
tion, who had thought nothing of their personal
safety, for the purpose of performing a great duty
to the country ? They had been told that they pre-
judged the question, because of the sentiments they
had expressed in that letter. which had been the
object of so much discussion. Conviirced as they
were, then, that the Magistrates had acted hi a
manner for which no other alternative was left, to
perform their duty to Government, could they bay
they had acted wrong ? He could not conceive
how they could have acted otherwise. It bad been
stated that at that meeting several persons hod lost
their lives ; he could also state that a person con-
vected with the police office had been actually
stoned to death in the open streets—(Hear, hear)—
a constable of the town had narrowly escaped with
Iris life, and several persons gave evidence that their
lives were in &diger by shots being fired in the
house. The danger of the country had been ad-
nutted—then let them uniie to surmount that
danger ; and if he saw airy feature of that danger
more formidable than the rest it was iii those who
would stand between the Government and those who
were sttempting to subvert it. Ile would only add,
that the different views which the Noble Earl had
taken of the then existing
state of the country, in
the very county which he represented, and the
public declaration which was made on that occa-
slot), plainly *hewed Out all future confidence be-
tween the Noble Earl and the Government was now
rut air end, and iu his opiuiou that dismissal was
perfectly necessary.
Lord ERSKINE said the question was, whether
they would protect the country against all designs
made against the Crown, or take notice of the
rights of the people, which had been violat-
ed, and that they were revolved to take their
rights into consideration ? The Noble Lord who
hail last spoken, instead of taking the voice of the
people into consideration, had sat down without
saying a word upon is. Were they justified in pre-
judging the question now. or were they to
make it fur granted that no blame was on
the part of the Manchester Magistrates ? It
woald be material to consider what had been the
cause of the discontents. They must say they had
arisen from the not attending to the complaints of
the people, and that they now had a distrust in the
integrity of Parliament. But as to the question,
whether it was to be considered as an illegal meet-
ing or not ?—lie admitted that a great multitude of
persons had resembled, and whatever objection
might be taken to the object of it, their object was
to present a Petition to Parliament fur an squill
representation, and for that purpose they brought
their wives and children. it could hardly be sup-
posed that persons who went there for the purpose
of committing an outrage., would have brought
their wives arid children with them. Supposing
this meeting, in the opiniou of the Magistrates,
was illegal, it was their duty to have taken such
'dews as the law hail furnished them with. and they
• should have read the Riot Act, which would have
been a mimilestation of the opinion of the Ma-
!prorates that tine inecting had become illegal.—
They had not heard that that Riot Act was read, or
that it was reed in the mow simmer which it relight
to have been read. If airy man remaiiied after that
Act was read, Ire would liave been a Won; but
because he is a felon, was he to be sabred instead of
bertng indicted, ur were they to rinds in and trample
hue down, fur these individuals had been justified

in doing those acts ? It was their duty to hate gone
with a civil body, instead of going in and staining
the people. While they determined to support the
law, to vindicate the authority of the state, and do
all they could to support the authority of Perlis-
tneut, ought they not to shew that they hail some
regard fur the people? In his opillioar, the only
duty they had to perform. was to satisfy the people,
that they did not overlook their wrongs, while they
would not suffer nny improper conduct. The only
answer that had been given was, that his Nlajesty's
Nlitristert differed from them. Would it he said,
that they had no authority to enter into a consider-
ation of this transaction, in order to give peace and
ratisfaction to the country? ‘Vould any thing
remove that feeling of disgust in the mind of the
great body of the people sootier, than by shoving
to them that they were anxious to afford them
redress? He would be ainotigat the foremost to
deprecate attacks on the Gove iiiiii ent of the country,
but the Government of the country ought to see that
the liberties of the people were protected.
Lola KING observed, the Noble Lord (Sid-
mouth) had said that information was given to him
—and lie would ask by wl ? By Mr. Hay !
and upon that information he advised the Prince
Regent to pass his judgment in this manlier moot
the conduct of the yeomanry. Au opinion had
prevailed in this country, that the Magistrates (.1
Nlaucheater were guilty of great indiscretion, at
least that they did not conduct themselves with
that temper and moderation which► became them.
He thought a great distniction was to be made in
this case—it was very possible a Magistrate might
act in a muutier, or be guilty of great indiscretion,
sod yet not make himself ateenulde to the law.—
What would they say if the discretion of thew Ma-
gistrates was this, that they ought to execute a war-
rant of that description in the midst of an immense
multitude. They had iiiforrn•utiou that it was all
illeg.d meeting, why then did they not prohibit it
or pie vent it ?--why could they not hare waited until
that meeting had dispersed? The danger was only
incurred by the means they resorted to ; 'to danger
would have occurred if they had waited a few mi-
nutes until the meetitig was dispersed. If they
examined in what part of the country discontent is,
th-y would find it in that part where the greatest
distress prevailed. 'flue meeting of the 16th of
August had been a pretext for other meetings,
which were called meetings fur loyal declarations;
thus they had been setting one party in oppcetaints
to another. Ile believed that prudent coneewons,
made in due trine, might prevent much worse con-
aetprences. The different parts of the ct iiiii try were
now divided into three classes: his Maj-siv's
11i-
uisters ; those who went under the term of Radicals,
who said, they would be content with nothing but a
radical reform; another class, who saint, that they
thought • radical and temperate reform :night do
good. He thought much good might be dorte,
Parliament would sliew every disposition to cr•r-
rect those abuses, whenever they had an oppor-
tunity of doing au—he wished well for the ho-
ii ur and credit of Porliumeot, aid wished to
preserve its high character and dignity. Ile was
of opinion. that they were maktior themselves
the nistruntents of the discontent by the nets
obis, were passed in the last Session of Parlia-
ment ; by the unnecesaary taxation, which was
creased by two or three millions, for no other pur-
pose than to iucrea►e unurcessaiily a I urge sinking
fond ; by that shameful grant of 10,00 a, which
lie believed in his conscience had done more harm
to the Royal family than any grant—a grata to
reward a son fur looking over his father, a person
who by his nature mid inclioution may be so pposed
to have thought that his duty ; and by the imie-
parable difficulties thrown in the way of one Bill
sent up to that [louse, sheaing that Parhantent did
not manifest a proper feeling for the distresses of
the country, or show a proper regard to their in-
terests. If they were to judge of the future con-
duct of tbis Government, of Earl Fitzwilliam'a dis-
missal, of an Oliver trod others of Iris stump, it
was not inn much to ►uspect that tLey would
excite cairsiderable disturbetices and riots for their
own particular purposes. Could ally thing tenth to
inflame and int.:lease that agitation more than to say
Parliament was unwilling to institute an inquiry ?
Th- re was a difficulty to obtain justice to the tribes-
orals of this couutry—if they searched, they might
see that there were these difficulties. He thought
the applications to Magistrates for warrant*, winch
were refused—the adjoornment of an inquest Air so
great a tittle, with a sense of the difficulties of ob-
taining redress, were circuniatances which were
likely to create disturbances amongst the people,
and be believed that it was of great coosequetice
that there should Le a perfect reliauce on the jus-
tice of the laws.

The E td of CARTIFORT said it was our duty, as
members of society, to protect each other, by up-
holding those principles on which society depends.
Much had Leen said of the meeting at Manchester
on the 16th of August, and the transactions of that
day; it seemed to him extraordinary that there
should be a second opinion as to the legality of that
meeting. Was it possible that it could be lawful
for men to meet in such enormous numbers, and in
a threatening manner, as on that occasion, cud that
• proceeding could be lawful which goes to defeat
all the ends for which men enter into society ? Alen
entered into society for the purpose of leaving the
protection of their rights to public authorities con-
stituted for that purpose, and not to the adjudica-
tion of themselves. Should that principle be de-
parted from, no individual could have any security
for life or property. The meeting of so large a
body, and with such device., even under pretence
of a lawful purpose, could out be allowed. for it
must necessarily inspire terror, and such terror was,
in its mute, an act of violence and compulsion.
The present times were different front Otiose of the
civil wary, when there was a claim of arbitrary power
in the Crown, and a contest on the part of the peo-
ple for the recovery of ancient rights and liberties.
Those liberties were now well understood, and he
was convinced that none were ever more attached to
those principles than the Illustrious Royal Family
under whose auspices we live. The King undertakes
to administer justice in mercy, and so mild has
been bis reign, that in the perforroance of this duty
numerous cases have occurred tu which mercy
may he thought to have been carried too far.
‘Vliat would have been said at the time of the Re-
volution, by the Judges of that day, had a Grand
Jury been abused in public libels, as the Grand
Jury of Lancashire bare been treated for doing

their duty ? He hoped, that, laying 'Aide all s
party spirit and prejudice, all would unite in
supporting the Constitution, and that was only
to be don:: by giving support to the asogis-
tract• of the country. There was only one
low alike for rich and for poor, but of *hot use was
law if not executed? and how could that be done
without supporting the Magistrates who carry it into
execution ? Every thing of value in society de-
pended npon it. Lenient measures proved the vi-
gour of Government more their measures of rigour,
and were preferable to them; but if the Manchester
Magistrates have exercised en torinecesory rigour, if
they have done personal injury and ilijustice. let
the injured party apply to the legal tribunal for
mire►.. With rewect to the removal of a Noble
Earl from the office which he tilled in the Nest
Rifling of Yorkshire, he was attached by long
habits of friendship to they. distinguished Noble-
Mall. and esteem tor his virtues ; but perhaps had
lie hero in his situation he would have acted dif-
ferently. Ir •ras of the highest consequence to the
tranquillity of the country, that a person of his rank,
character, fortune, viol influence, should be in a
station to restrain the people from their wrong
It was of advantage even to the Government
itself that the people should have such a man,
to whom they looked rip with veneration and
respect, mitt though he might differ from them in
opinion ore ►ome puinrs, therivere ca.es in which
Thome differences might he out only tolerated, but
encouraged with advantage. Ile therefore greatly
regretted that Gove ttttt tea did out take that course
in the case on the pfeseut occasion. The dm-
racier of Lord Fileivilliatis was well known.—
His Lordship Ras not the Hiatt that could en-
any views unfriendly to the constitution.
There were many vases in *lnch that Nobleman
hail proved the loyalty and integrity of his princi-
irks, in a hich, differing in opinion from intimate
and esteemed friends, he sacrificed his private
feeling* to hia public fluty. The act of Much a man,
althon4h erroneous in the opinion of Ministers,
should have been vitwed with indulgence and
favour.

The Duke of Arnot. dwelt upon the character
of the late public meetings, and the seditious writ-
hies and devices with which the country was de-
luged. He should, however, in the observation* on
those subjects confine himself to the northern parts
of the kingdom, of the proceedings in which he
could speak from Iris own knowledge. A more
moral and religious tract of country than that to
a hick he allowed did 1101 exist until within these
last three ths. The efforts made to debauch
the people inhabiting it had pot, however, proved
quite sut•cessful. Although emissaries were actively
employed in circulating their treasonable works
among them, particularly the lower class, to wham
they loomd easy access, as those works were
richer given away, or bold at a very cheap rate;
but even this class, though low in the scale
of society, entertained a strong ►ense of religion,
owl their loyalty and love of order had pre-
vailed to a certain degree in saving them from the
machinations employed to delude and corrupt them.
The situation of the country was greatly altered
fro m the time when our manufactures supplied
the whole world. There cuss of necessity much
want of employment. and consequent distress at
present among them, tint great exertions were made
to repair them, and iii his pert of the country the
projects of these einisseriee had failed, the people
being satisfied that every thing that could be done
to sillei,iste their sufferings had been effected, and
awaiting with patience the return of better times.
It was the duty of the House to protect them from
the specious del tisinus of those demagogues. The
question of reform had been often agitated, but lie
never knew any specific practicable plan, on which
20 persons were agreed. We !lad at last however got
one. We have now a Radical Reform. a reform by
which Noble Lords would not remain in possession
of their est:itt-, three days after it was carried into
effect. lie had a newspaper in his pocket, in
%hick a Radical Reformer states pretty !dandy
wlist he means. An exchange of poverty for pro-
perty, is the principle und purpose of the Radice'
Reformers. 11 their Lordships did not adopt some
measures to restrain such men, they would not do
their duty. The mass of the people were loyal, but
if not protected they would be lost in Radical Re-
form. He would recommend the signal of Lord
Nelson when at the battle of 'Frafalg ir, England
expects every min to do his duty." Let the House
also do its duty, and by an doing it will have done
that which, under Divine Providence, will stem all
the calamities a ith which the country is threatened,
and insole•its safety. He had sat in that House
neatly 40 years ; lie had tern in that time maim
black clouds hanging over Ms head, but the good
arise, loyalty, mid morality of the toeopte had never
failed to dispel them.

Lord [ALFORD said, the liberties of the people
were involved in the protection of the constituted
authorities, whose repination could not suffer with•
out islary to those ove► whoa► they presided. He
would ask, then, whether some of the speeches
of Noble Lords wire calculated to raise or to
degrade that re►pect which was due to the
'racy ? In advocating their cause, he advocated
the cause of the people. The little he had to
say should be conticed to Ins local knowledge.
lie had received information from a person in
the middle rank of society, not of the privi-
leged orders, but n maim of swim; judgment, and
without prejudice or partiality ; lie had his torte.
spondence in his hands, and lie should state two or
three passaues from it. Its dater counnenced with
Initrity, 1819, and it stated that the It olieu's. its
tirt_tilig Parliamentary Reform, and elect %tog the
C..1"111 11111, only meant to excite it prej,tilice
the landholders ; that the people in tie tin:tut-rift
which he resided were goaded tor by 11..-boners, and
ready for any act of desperation ; that Own' minds
were assailed by ►editions tracts, mid if sedition
was allowed to go 4,11 they would write 410,6V11 at.),
government on earth. The cotton trade buil iu►.
proved, and he was sure would improve if out !ire.
vented by the madness of those turn—but reform
had got possession of their minds, it mixed with all
their habits roil idro., at d constituted the subject
of all their conversation. The Nlmogisitaies were

soma &plum., to lustre tittir coar into—
(Hear, hear, flow the appositi ,11 jJ fiehe..)—but PO
prejaillieed Was lie 111 GIVUtIr 1...• t•un-UtnUuu, Ise
rhauld concur In the propriety of r«ltoit.g silly ex-
traordinary procesc, sod should therefore rote ogriamt
•the amentluteht.

Earl REY, in explanation said, he did rot
a.
gmeanistra taens any
orre flme sainoctilieustpoern. theH e w characterouldlsengic3Odyerimolt;olalielsiitie,::l In
,
see it proved on a complete inquiry, tllicirt,iinwteiliitie;vizhtaloc:
ljnostmLeoexrilcdteseErdyieiDdnoqt
Nhoe—i r
y limits
h allay
tl oleaf,yetrh theteh
the
ra
tendency
to
mod though wished for by the Magistrates, he would
never consent towviitioclhatme
must
tie
egrteiset
the constitution,
of acquiescing in the amendment. it Im.
said, that the Manchester Meeting was a lersl
but I am not afraid to say, that noman exists, al,o,
knowing as I do, all the circumstances of the cue,'
will assert that it was according to law. A g„,•
number of persons constitute force; and farce,
may excite terror. No man knowing *hat li-
did, would say it hod a character of legality,
They talked of prima fade evidence against.
the Magistrates. This was nonsense. In saying
this, lie did not mean to speak lightly of thaw.
who complained against them. He respected
lower classes; they were equal to the superior
orders in the eye of the law, and the ineani.t suh.
ject of this country lie considered greater thso
highest of any other. It had 'nth said that some
Magistrates had refused to lake the examins i nis „;
individuals; but tint Oda they acted wrong, the party
could have legal redress. There were proceedings
in the Court of King's Bench, and why should the
. House interrupt them by its interference ? A Noble
and Learned Lord, an old fellow-lab 00000 er with him.
Self in the sane vineyard, for whose opit.ion he en.
teitailied the highest respect, lipid said tli.re ernr
cases in which the House might do so, hut then it
must be a case of State necessity, and nothing of
the kind was urged now. In such cases of inter.
fereuce some public dancer was unlit, ;tended, hut
it did not follow if l'Arliament refuses to interfere
in the case of the Manchester 111a:fish:mho, that
all the Magistrates of the count'?- Ktll ion wad.
and endanger the safety of the coul.try. Instead
of such interference to their disarlialit.it,e, Ise
thought, on the contrary, they shr,iild
t. cted from the libels with which they were assal,
ed. With respect to the Riot Act, it was introllue.
ell in the 9th of George the Third. By that Ac,,
I if, in the case of an unlawful assembly, the Riot
Act is read, and the people do not disperse within
one hour after such reading, every person so
remaining is guilty of felony. There are also
many att. that apply to unlawfal swieniblies as
contradistinguished from riots, etc. Now, if be.
tweets the reading of the Riot Act and the expire.
tion of the hour, the meeting simuht change it,.
character, is it to be presumed that tl:e other Acts
are palsied and cannot be put in execution—that if,
after the first quarter of the hour. the meei:ilz
should proceed to every act of violence and th.per,...
the Magistrates must remain pt:s.tve
tors of the scene, awaiting the lapse of the remain-
ing three quarters ? He ventured to assert ilvit no
lawyer will say that the Riot Act 11.1(184er...1 the com-
mon law in that view of the case. Nothing sl.ould
ttielempfatohimr
wtiotheinntelrlisintkonoawmie,iitgiuet.e ensteiossilt i of :11
ioituoldct
ly
say it was his fixed, clear, and unqualified opir::,
that the Manchester meeting was, on every principle •
of the law of England, all meetii g.

Lord EASKINS explained. He did tit 4 say, as
the Noble and Learned Lord imputed to Lim, that
if a tumultuous assembly assume • new and tin.
lent character within the hour, there rail he 110 legal
interference until its expiration. He might appeal
to his own conduct in evidence that he maintained
no such doctrine. Ile alluded to the riots in 1790,
when he offered his assistance to protect Lord Mao.-
field's house, and also against a tumultuous assem-
bly that attempted to force the gate of the Temple,
at which time he resided within it. On boils occa.
Pious he would not have hesitated a niotnent to tire
upon the rioters, had they attacked him. But lie
denied that a peaceable assembly was a subject for
the Riot Act—inquiry was necessary. to shew whe-
ther it was or was not of that thiarai ter. The 'x.
aggeratioks and ruisrepresetitations in circulation,
instead of being au argument ugaitist, were the
strongest reasons that could he urged fur such
inquiry.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN said, that, if not an-
ciliated by others, lie should suhinit in a few days
a proposition, calling upon their Lordships to dis-
charge their duty, by instituting a lull inquiry into
the distress and discontent that have prevailed at
Manchester and other places. At prevent, there-
fore, he merely rose to vote for the Amendment; a
determination which lie had not adopted witlictO
great anxiety. And first lie would say, that it
should not have his concurrence if it had nut spoken
in the most unequivocal terms with respect of the
iticreasingdatigera of the country. and of the attempts
made to corrupt the principles of loyalty by which it
has been hitherto di.tilignislied. Haring said thus
much on that part of the Amendment, 1w thought it
essential to till up that declaration with another, not
merely assuring the country that their Lordships
were not asleep at their 'grata. but that they would
take into consideration whether the safety and
of his Majesty's subjects have tot been it:nieces-
sitrily and wantonly endangered, sod which lie
thought the late transactiotiv particularly demand.
The Noble Viscount had expressed a confidence in
the conduct of 11w Magistrates of Manchester, iii
that lie did nut mean to prejudge them. Tse
men, lie void. had coins to town to I , writ
qualified to give the necessary and full Mho-.
illation on the subject. But these men sere
parties in the transaction. and interested in !Ise-
case, as their fame and character depended upon,
the insult; ni..l let these were the men on *loiter.
evidence the Noble Viscount thought himself qualified
to
pass as minion, and, turning suit ad 11:1011 the people, Ost,
you shalt have uu opinion against tar d. finilive lasts an ;
every man s moults slsall be ciused, aril it shall he a Cli111.•
in such a man as Lord in countenance a
niand fora Parliamentary inquiry into tisesubject.
that nu isierutieleus shvelil he fixed upon any twin aid..
one inquiry; but heeled iud 1611111 a MM.: deadly lilt,. coo: i 1
he aimed at the characters of the Miiii.tincy than to Is.• i.l
tip lu Site country as onions irrurpitio:ltile to Illy Gorui•
went, and pow:eosin., the Exirnurilitiary authority ,4
es
they pleased without inqui.y or rirr of pool-km.lJ. 'I •
Noble Yield. had said the Manchester Magistrati silo! sill l'••• -
sailer the meeting illegal, but wily omit, d to ai cuss Mr. 11..1.
Had they cuusidered it illegal tb. y wucid be reps,
nut having taken iserasurrs to tumid it • tint why as, 1!,
1;11111 to be arrested at nionorni, and tinder
abicts tans( excite great irritation in the
provoke danger, rhea lie could nave lutes arreatil v
1,11111 certainly and without involving any of 1114.5 e c..a.G
queorrnl The Radicals acre dangetuus, lent these a
gocat. r danger that. thrill, for there was a :maim:
that the established institutious acre hem tarnarablr tu,

ligpmimiß•pw-pnwiTi

;

the people than they ovbt "11. • This f,, *
weapon in the hands of C. • l* I:e.:tht, atut ft. !eft iv
they will obtain possessim , :11,- taiint-y. I!' 14.,i r
hare no way to check it but • ...... ~'401011! .Ar.1..,:e
ciliate the people, it will fr' i tr.! 4110 M. 1.11 6 ••••:
their members so mach attlertty ettcl lest. yr, ..•
their object. The Noble Titt-anit Itte.l v,1.1 bre
could interfere in this case &tate, a tier Ileutit e ~,.,
people, withuut adding leis weigh% to the .!...e.•
thought that greater weight sena vciv,se .1.1 1...
who require that prostration or nude,-fl ..' tr- .
nisters of the Prince Regent, alma dr, i,,, ....
of the right of Englishmen, ',At or fe...,.i.,.
no virtues shall save a Nob! •uriii from i'..• iiec
vkliog to the general tlireontk‘rct by living :,, .
ferent from that which Ministers it krtaim It I 1, t .!fl
21.1 j to the discontent, who v•atetteaw hots tile '• • • e
the benefit of the admiration -ml ClfrelS is itl:'•:• - '• •• i
Nobleman is liclil by the peonl.. nod Cerise: .:14114; nis the
Advantages which his example 'Riffled+.
The Earl of Ltornstont. rte, !re oluinie the Rea-t7fotent.
He would not eater into the s ~.-ei tires li V,.,.,.
He rested upon one cirrunistsii ... wi,i,ls a
stood sucoatiadicterl. He de.fi, ~,,. se,;,a a
the present, in which a Pa-
instituted. : • ~,
There was one i.i 1
two years ago, but the groe:-.1. I. re I, WWI me.st to
the present case. The pre- i., e‘• .4 3 •, .• of an in.
jury sustained by certain ir.::v..:ie i!.,•, 3,1 act that was
passed. The case that ocean:. 11.1 i ,-e, rev, • ../..c.l avo was
that of certain papers laii tit Cry.. the !I iiew' as evi-
dence of some great public 0,-,..!r er*.h w. c:, the win-
try was threatened, and an ITV --s i• diluted, w:th a view
to avert it, and adopt measures f.- ioo public safety. The
inquiry demanded would have Sl eifeet of suspending all
the rocsediors connected with the case now before the legal
tribunals of the country; hot the House could not suspend
the whole administration of the laws to snake these mat.
Ws a whirr' of Parliamentary inqairy. The Noble Earl
had put much stress on the Answer of his Royal
Highness the Prince Regent to the City of London,
that they were not acquainted with all the circum-
stances relative to the Nlanchester businesis, there-
fore were not competent to give an opinion. • He
contended that the Answer of the Prince Regent
was the proper one. But take the meeting at Mats.
cheater as it was, he had no hesitation in saying
that it was SI seditious meeting ; he would go fur-
, ther, and say it was a treasouable meeting. When
twenty thousand men met, and part of them
armed, it could not be for any lawful purpose,
end was sufficient to strike terror into the loyal
inhabitants of Manchester, and call for the *niters
lerence of the Magistrates, whose duty it was to
disperse them. The Magistrates had no notion
that the meeting of the 16th was illegal, until they
found 5 or 6,000 men marching iota the town in
military array. He was far front being of opinion,
hut that the number of disaffected in the country
were greatly overbalanced by the well affected;
but all Revolutions had hitherto been brought
about by the fears of the loyal, and where there had
been sulfivient to create terror in the loyal iii 'toe
county, it might soon spread over the remaining
counties. Ile would tell their Lordships the be-
nefit of their being summoned there was to support
the loyal, and to 'hew the Magistrates that it was
their determination to support them in the perform-
ance of their duties.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN explained.
The Earl of CAHN.% tIVON said, he rote to support
the amendment of his Noble Friend, for if the Ad-
dress which was moved by the Noble Earl opposite
was carried, when he considered the agitated state of
the country, and the disturbances which had taken
place, that the hands of Parliament would lie lied
up, and that they should have no measures but
those of the Ministers, the principal safety of the
bulwark of the subject was broken into alien
the Prince Regent was made to give his un-
qualified thanks, not only to the Magistrates of
:Manchester, but to the yeomanry, aud at the
same time all inqinry denied to Parliament.
Ile would ask, whether from the conduct of the
Alinisters themselves, whether the liberty of the
subject was not gone when they advised their So.
vereign to give his thanks to every officer and soldier
who acted on that unfortunate day ? lle was at a loss
• to know how his Majesty's Ministers could call the
meeting at 'Manchester seditious, when, at the same
lime they winked at similar meetings, under their
I own eye, with what grace did they come down to
1 Parliament, stud say, the law of the land is weak,
1 and ask of ynur Lordships for new powers, when
they had never availed themselves of the law as it
stood ? What situation did they stand in ? He
would tell them, as necessaries after the fact. Why
had they slept at their posts, when irreligion was
going forth, and only in one or two instances at.
tempted to stop blasphemy ? They allowed die evil
to go forth mail it was not to be restrained, and no
longer containable. If they ever could have found a
man to have vented their vengeance on, his Noble
Friend (Earl Fitzwilliam) ought to be the last ;
if they had forgot their respect to him, they ought
not to have forgotten it to their Sovereign. What
bad his Noble Friend door? The lower order of peo-
ple had taken themselves away from those they
were its the habits of looking up to for advice ; he
met them, and told them to rely on Parliament as
their forefathers had done, as they had but one
common interest whatever their situations in life
might be. The Radicals went to the meeting with
their flags flying, and with an opinion that the
Pediment ought to he overturned, and they left it
with gratitude for the wholesome advice they
lied received, and satisfied that that Parliament,
which they would have destroyed, was the oily
legitimate source to look to fur relief. But what
use did Ministers make of this meeting at York-
-1 shire ? they made it an excuse to add twelve
regiments to the military force of the country. On
• 1
these grounds he would support the Amendment.
The Marquis of BUCKINGHAM said, at that late
hour of the night lie would detain their Lordships

I.t ;.•

‘‘.

~. ~ ~ .1

sog

•ftr.

.011unona, sktl4
Irnw • east like
~• ry w.tM rwy
:a•te that

but a few moment•, and he would not have tre.2.-

poised on them, if he could conscientiomly have
given a silent vote. As to the business at Manche,.
ter, he would give no opinion, as the tribunals of
tee country were still ()Iwo to try that question.
Ile was nut to he misled by the statements in
tavtiur of the Address, or those in support of the
Amendment, but lie wan convinced there was
not one amongst their Lordship* who did not took
oti the meetings that had taken place as the com-
mencement of a revolution. Religion was assailed
ill entry point, and were they to pative before
they sought a remedy for the evil ? 'Hail they
not seen public officers threatened fur performing
their duty. and tneetings purporting to beifor the
purpose of petitioning the Crown, when in reality
they were meetings to overturn the Clover 1111 l ent ?
He would then say, ruck meetings amounted to u
breach of the peace, and it was the duty of the
nig:Austen to millirem them. Ile wished it to
be understood, that iii any thing be lied said, that

lie did tint allude to the business at Manchester.
leis Lord.:.ip, for the reasons he had given, would
twte for till Address.
Their I.wrdplnps then divided on the Amend-
ment, when there appeared—

Contents
Proxies
34
Non C.intents
Proxies
—159

Lout by a 5Ni-wily of
The Address was than cornea without a divi,tion.
Adjourned tit a quarter past twelve o'clock until
to-morrow (this day )

MOUSE OF COMMONS, TUMMY, Novnieta 113.
The Members began to assemble about one
•'clock.

' At twenty minutev before two, when a considers-
ble number were present, the SPEAKRII entered,
and took his •eat at the table, and in a very few mi-
nutes after Sir Thomas Tyrwhitt, the Gentleman
Usher of the flack Rod, appeared in the [louse,
mid commanded its attendance in the usnal form
at the Rouse of Peers, to hear the Prince Regent')
Spree h delivered.
During the absence of the SPEAKER. we observed
that alino.t ever• place on the back britches of the
Ministerial side, had pieces of paper affixed to tie-
note their having been token by different Members.
A number of seats appeared appropriated on the
Opposition side also.
A quarter of an hour before four o'clock the
SPEAKER returned, end took the Chair.

The attendance of Members was greater than we
almost ever witnessed on a similar ovens' . Among
them appeared several of the leading men on both
sides of the House.