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London, England, 1807-01-06 00:00:00

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Paris, anti he could assure the House, that he en-
tertained too great a regard for that Noble Lord's
talents, even to feel a moment's pain on that ground ;-
not should he have wished to remain at Paris as a
Negociator any longer, had not his sole induce-
ment been, lest, if he had immediately withdrawn,
an increased jealousy would have been entertained
by the French Government, as to the pacific in-
tentions of His Majesty's Ministers. 11l had con-
sidered the terms otiered on the 25th of Septem-
ber last, to he advantageous to this country.—
Whilst no one could be more desirous than he was
to maintain the good faith of this country with its
allies, he was at the same time persuaded, that no
reasonable attempt for procuring a satisfaCtory
peace should be overlooked. With regard to Sicily,
Russia must have seen the interest which this coun-
try took respetting it, that island was entirely de-
fended by this country) but had it been found ne-
wsary, with A View of making a great Continental
etfort, to withdraw our troops from that country,
or to secure some other conquest, which might have
Peen exchanged for Sicily ; in either case, the re-
tention of that island could not be considered by
Russia as an object of the first importance to its
legitimate Sovereign ; nor did he see wiry an at-
tempt might not have been made to secure Dalmatia
for him, in addition to the Balearic Isles. On the
part of France, there appeared a greater unwiLing•
nest to give Dalmatia to Russia, than either to
Austria or Naples.
Lord HOWICK explained; reminding the House
and Lord Yarmouth that he had already stated his
Lordship had retui fled to Paris, with verbal in-
strutlions ; and that afterwarls, when full powers
- were sent to him, his Lordship was instruaed not
to produee these powers without an acknowledg-
ment, on the part of France, of the basis r.f tie
puslidras; and, in a subsequent letter, his Eor I,trip
was instruCted not to proceed with the Negoc:Ation.
until France returned to her Acknowledg ci has's.
Mr. MON I'AGUE declared, that he only saw in
this Negociat ion the triumph of artifice over CietIU-
IIIV. Th- policy of Fiance w..s evidently that
. which he had read in the hi,tory of the 1.111:s ;
namely, " to make short .races, to secure con•
, goes's, and to make sharp wars." It was to mon-
_ tain this system, under the form of a negotiation,
that France had enjoyed all the advantages of a
truce, as a blind to cover her own macisinations
against ttse liherti... of Europe. As to the origin of
this Negotiation, he thought he cerild clealy race
it to the death of Mr. Pitt. From the loss of this
able Pilot had proceeded a change of principle and
condo t, and a system of comparative weakness.
He imagined that he saw that great nun recti..ing
on his conch, and :he evil Genius approac;,iag, him,
attempting to instil despondency into his bre.tir. and
to court atcommudation with the enemy, saying,
Te, Patolive, !retells, tlbt triNtit tolno is portant,

Itiao,ti: puppique Deus consedit in Alta.
rhodium& simihs, fuditque hal ore l.quel.it
Vials Paqueue, ferlint %pa *wee etas:els.
.Equate spirant aura, dater Mee quieti.
Pone caliut fessowane oculot fulase
Ipse eg paulisper pro I. too mon •ra WIN".
How applicable in the mouth of that great Mates-
roan may we consider the reply of Paiinurus;
Cui 'ix attollens Palinurus lumina t,tur ;
Mena ,al3 placiii atrium 11.ictuique (metro
Jelorasre jubes? Mee. butt Cutlidere illenetrOt
m erert.tm quid ituirn la3acanit Austris,
Et Cell tutiet deceptus frauds went'
Tes, that accommodation which, to Mr. Pitt. was
an nbje& of distrust, was, to his successors, an objeff
of ardent desire. However much he shou.si lament
giving offence to Mr. Fox's friend", yet, on such
suhjeft as this, he should not scruple to say, that, as
a politician, he had ever differed from him ; how-
ever strange this declaration may seem, at this
time of alterations, and corlitions, and shift-
ing of opinions. lie should not debate, whether
Mr. Fox s first letter may be considered as the com-
mencement r,f the Negotiation, although he err-.
tainly considered it as that which bribe the ice, and
led to the Negotiation ; and that there were glanc-
ings in it which M. l'alleyrand well understood. He
disliked that expressos in the letter of our First Mi-
nister, of pet let'l attachment" to the Minister of
France; it was too much for the taste of an Anti-
gallicaa Englishman. When, he would ask, did
this " perteEt attachment" begin between these
two Illustrious Statesmen ? WAS it in the year 179,
when M. Talleyrand made his appearance in this
country ? He allowed, that the answer of Mr.
Fox was plain and manly when compared with the
flimsy arguments of Talleyrand. What was the
evident policy of this main? Was it to obtain
Peace? No; hut it was, that under the form of
a Negotiation, France might more securely carry
on. her schemes of aggression against Prussia.
—Talleyrand perceived that Mr. Fox was sin-
cerely desirous of Peace, and hence he, in his
turn, became very desirous to make use of this feel-
in - in order to hinder the co•operation of our
allies, and to diuraft our Councils. Now in all
there respeels he has completely succeeded. The
French Ministry, being in possession of this let-
ter of Mr. Fox, most probably communicated
it to the French party at the Court of St. Pe-
• shuigh, with a view to convey a suspicion
h the inclination of our Finn Minister to a4an-

.n the intriests of Russia; not that he meant to
.‘.;:xiate that %lr. Fox had any inclination to desert
!Oasis ; but ht. TAlier Ana's end was answered,
it he Loald succeed in irlu*ing suspicions between
it a.ia and Engl.and. This Minister of France has
evidently not adhered to truth in other respects ; he
has pulished a letter, as one sent to Lord Lauder-
dale, which his Lordship never received ; he has
been guilty of a direct forgery in this lustiness ; and
is it then 'Holy that he would scruple to represent
Mr. Foz's first letter, as conveying an idea of a dis-
position on the pit of England to abandon Russia?
It is also evident that Bonaparte's main objeet
throughout this Negotiation has been to carry on
his &sighs more securely against Prussia ; for he
well knew that it must nave been our policy
through Prussia to attack France. It was bad
policy is our Govenitnent to make War upon
Prussia; the cont.:ire nice being, that it ren-
dered it impossible ear this country to assist
Prussia, and that it left us in the ridiculous point of
light, of sending a Minister, as w:th a candle and
lanthorn, to find out where the King of Prussia ac-
tually wise rho contest also about Hanover, • has
!E'en produltive of a million or woes to this country ;
aid by means of t!.;s, France has contsived to set

1 to Lou.
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ee migh
laces tCi
ie *Frio


Pi ugaia and this country at variance. Ministers were
to blame in sending overlLord Yarmouth as a Ne-
gocietor. He meant nothing disrespeetful to that
Noble Lord, and would say nothing but what the
Noble Lnrd, in a change of circumstances, might
be justly entitled to say of him. Talleyrand. who
was a man of great dexterity, chose that Noble
Lord, in the first instance, as Negotiator between
the two countries, after keeping him for some years
as a prisoner, and knowing that. he had no hope of
&staining his liberty, but by toing his exertions to
procure Peace. My Lord Yarmouth had not
been used to diplomatic discussllens ; this was
to impose a heavy burden on his shoulders. No-
thing, therefore, could be more impolitic nn the
part af our Government, than that of employing
him, in the first instance ; nor more uegenerons than
when they afterwards blamed hint for his manlier
lof conduaing the Negotiation. As to the wi Imo
edoeo had other steps been taken, it would have
been much more clear is which Government blame
WAS due. He was persuaded France did not wish
to bring this point to too early a chase, and that our
Minister found himself somewhat in the situation of
a man wooing a woman, who does not choose too
steep to put the plain question, lest the door Annie
be shut in his face; net could he approve of the ap-
pointment of the other Negotiator. He recoiled-
ed Lord Leutterdale's jeurney to France, in 1792,
the associations he contriaaed, and the intimacies he
formed with the Br •s, stifle faction of that period.
He acknewle caged that our 11/47.egeriator was punflual
to the instruetions he receiveJ: to be patient and
forbearing; he was placed in a situation extremely
awkward and painful. He was sent to Paris to hear
Fre, ch Ministers offering one day, and remelting
another. Thus they dallied with him as long as
they dared, and when they could no longer do so,
they in feet made him a prisoner, almost, for a time.
r Ousing him passports. It is true, France chewed
him, nut xerdly, all manner of politeness; they gave
him the fraternal hug, weilst they treated him al-
most in the same manner as Lord Malmsbury for.
merle MtAt ; and when at last he became impatient,
they treated him almost in the same manner as child-
ren are, with " the King is gone s-hunting." He
was stuck up as a sort of nine-pin, whilst D'Oubrir
was in his post chaise, lookiiig beck to see how one'
Plenipotentiaries endured their " durance vile "
No wonder if the indignities one knibassador under.
went overcame ho petience; and that this was really
the case, may be suspeted item Talleyrend's note,
where he spanks of the "savage form" eur Ambassa-
dor was led to assume. It would appear tica Lord
Lauderdale was detained at Paris to witness the
fresh thunderbolts of war that were forcing ageinee
this comely, as well as Press' Setieusly, how
was it possiirle for us to exeea Peace with France.
at the very time France was preparing to go to war
with Pru•sia ? In the mean while, the langout of
our expeditions, the recal ant superseding of our
successful and meritorious officers, the want of ex-
ertions in carrying into execution our plans of na-
tional defence, were apparent. Was it because we
were negotiating with France that we should have
relaxed in our measures of security ? Let Ministers
have all prothmwhen they en well ; but he, for one,
could nor gore them implicit t Infidence, although
he esteemed them personally; and he particularly re-
quested the Nobk Lek opposite (Howlett) to ac-
cept the assurances of his high considetatiao.
Sir T 'CUACON beitan by apologising for in-
truling upon the tine and attention of the House,'
hut feeling the importance of the question, both as
to %Neste's, and the iteterest of the country, as arm;
nett d with (het night's Debate, he mint say, that 1,
be did not consider.the character of Ministers, nor
of the country, as increased by this N -geciatietn;
nor was it istereaied from the circumstance, that oar
Ambassadors were sent to France, when they should 1
have eerneined in this country. and that they ten-ars.'
ed at Paris, when they should have returned home. 1
Sir Marna. then pro. ceded to animadvert on tile
conduct of Ministers during the various stages of
the Negociation. Though adverse to the general
principles of Mr. Fox, yet he considered him its pe-
' culiarly well quaOtied to treat with Falleyrand ; it
was simplicity set against finesse and all its wind-
ings. tle had no doubt that the assassin referred to in
Mr. Fox's first letter, was a spy sent from France.
As to the alliance with Russia, he only found the
Treaty of Subsidy, in May 1805, made on a particu-
' ler occasion ; so that, in tact, there was no actual
Treaty subsisting between the two countries, when
' this Negotiation commenced; nor did Russia consi-
der that Treaty as binding upon her, to bring for.
ward her forces; at the smile time. it appeared to
him, that the Negociation was broken off merely
upon Russian grounds ; and lie thought, had it not
been for this, we should have got over ocr other
difficulties with toniour. The whole proceolings of
the French Minister ant Negotiators, he considered
to be a tissue of trick And finesse; and that, there-
fore, the Negociation should have been broken
on our part, much sooner than it really was. And
with regard to M. D'Oubril, he bad no doubt of
Lis having had authority to sign a Treaty sepa-
rately from this country ; and had he signed such a
Treaty as the Emeeror liked, we should have been
abandoned, and left alone to treat with France.
'the Hon. Member affirmed, that in the offers of
France at this period, everything was conceded con-
sistent. with the safety, welfare, and honour of this
country. Even Hanover has been comprised its the
concessions of France, though he was far from con-
sidering England interested in her fate. lie had
heard Isere, and elsewhere, Hanover denourioard
the link whereby the interests of England were
united to those of the Contteental Powers of Eu-
rope, an advanced post, lions whence we could ef-
fectually annoy our Continental enemies ; in fine, a
lever, like that of Archimedes, whereby we could
turn or overturn every thing that dared to oppose
us. To these opinion. he had, notwithstanding, never
substribeer and although he felt that England was
in some sot bound to gratify its Sovereign, by in-
cluding the restoration of his Contineutal Domi-
nions, as a specific article of the .freety, yet he re-
garded it merely as a point of honour, not in the deist
a paint wherein she had serious interest. He said,
he could not help being surprised to hear Ministers
applied the terms of the Treaty of Amiens, which
gave up every thing to France, yet maintain the in-
espediency of assenting to the terms offered by France
in this negoeiation. Wnet could they desire more?
Was not .lalta offered to hr given ue, by whico they
usighttsave moires' se stustusclssa die 'rota c collimated

•
of the Mediterranean. (4 sere not our accessions of do.
minine •in India to be guaranteed to us, together
with she Cape of Good Hope, Tobago. and the in-
territy of the °Raglan Empire. He said he felt
also considerable stfrprise to .find, that even during
the continuance of Ministers in Paris, we ha•l
dispatched Lord Mnrpeth to the assistance •of
Prus.ia, though actually at war with France,
with whom we were endeavouring to conclude
a Treaty of Peace. This he criuld nut help
contidering rather an odd sort of inconsistency,
however reconcilable to the superior intelligence
of Ministers, especially when we recnlleded that
Prussia had ever acted a treacherous pare to the
common interest of Europe ; that she had been ever
the enemy of our ancient ally, Austria, the friend
of France, and the innovating spirit of French
principle ; at once exhibiting a de•es:able union of
rapacity and snrvility. From these disagreeable
reflections, he turned with pleasure to beg- Id the en-
livening confilonce of the Mini sty. in the unani-
mity and spirit displayed by this country in every
trying situation, notwithstanding the alarming Ma-
nifesto of Bonaparte, declaring then! Islanis in a
slate of perfed blockade. Yet, even in this avowal
of confidence, on the part of the Ministry, he
could not help observing the some inconsistency
which characterised them thy cughout their whole
condua-nhe al: tided to the melancholy desponding
letter of the Secretary (Viscount Howick) addressed
to the citizens of London, on the late seizure of the
English property at Hamburg. This strain of
writing was certainly ♦ery inconsistent with that
spirit of confi fence in the strength ■nd resources of
this country ; especially when we reflect that the
whole loss of English penperty, at that period, did
not amount to mote than the yearly income of seve-
ral individuals in that Assembly. He could scarcely,
he said, help observing, that the Minister seemed,
on that occasion, it least, to be seized with the
caroethes setitendi, and even his greatest ftiends
could not but allow that such a letter, at such *time,
was extremely improper. He begged pardon of
the House for so long trespassing on their patience,
a conviction of the necessity his situation imposed
On him thus to offer his sentiments, would, he trust-
ed, be his best apology.
Mr. WHITBREAD rose, and :role to the fol-
lowing effect:—" Mr. Speaker, Sir, it was my in-
tention to have offered myself to the consider-
ation of this House, before the Hon. Member
who last addressed you had risen; in order that I
might have the immediate opportunity of stibmnting
a few observations in answer to the Hon. Gentle-
man (Mr. Montague), who had spoken the last but
one. Although that Hon. Gentlem in has dealt
pretty extensively in classical allusions; although
he has indulged in a vein of fanciful or per-
haps laughable applications; yet, there were
some points, in the introduction of which I
must be excused in saying, he was neither appo-
site wit justified ; for twenty years, he has told you,
he had been acquainted with that great departed
statesman, Mr. Fox ; the first ten years of which he
was a Member of this House, and the remaining
period he has passed nut of it. That he had not
only spent that remaining period out of this House,
but out of this empire, one would imagine, who
should hear him on this night endeavouring to re-
vive all those political animosities, which it was
trusted were for ever laid aside, end which had been
menially forgotten by those who were at one time
the more immediate panics in their existence. Was
the Hon Gentleman, I say, acquainted with the cir-
cumstances which have taken place in this count y
and in this House, he would find that the great
statesman (Mr. Pitt) upon whose charader he had
pronounced so high an eulogitim, had not only
ceased to cherish political animosities against his
public opponents, but had adeally recommended to
the favour and seledion of his Sovereign, as a pro-
per, faithful, and enlightened servant of the crown,
his great political rival—that rival upon whose ge-
neral condud, and public principles, the Hon. Gen-
tleman has thought proper, with such labour, to
comment. But it is not only upon this topic that I
wally differ from the Hon. Gentleman; I differ
from him on every principle he has advanced, and
every dedudion he has attempted to draw, either as
to the conduct of the late Negotiation, or to the in-
expediency of entering into the Correspondence with
the Government of France. The Hon. Member has
taken upon himself to assert, that in the progress of
the Negotiation, His Majesty's Ministers were the
dupes of the machinations, the duplicity, and finesse
of th tt power. It would only have been his duty to
have pointed out to this House, and the Ministers, in
what part of the Correspondence, or upon what
evidence or fad, such an assertion is either founded
or proved. As to the inexpediency of entering into
that discussion, lam at issuc with him most diredly
upon that point. And here I cannot refrain from ex-
pressing my apprehension, that a similar ity of
opinion, upon that heal, with that Hon. Gentle-
man, is too much gaining ground in this country;
and is, I am sorry, too much cnuntenanctd by the
conclusion of my Noble and highly valued Friend
below me (Lord Howick). Are the sitpporteri of
this conclusion, prep:tied to say, that between this
Empire and France there no longer exists any
method of coaciliation? that front the cendua
of the lattor power, and the particular sys-
tem her Government has aeted upon for the
last few years. no treaties can ever bind, nu pacific
adjustment can be effected, no other hope than the
fatal prospeti of eternal war Against such a prin-
ciple, in contradiaion to such'sin opinion, and in
direa hostility to such a line of policy, I will con-
tinue, as I hive upon every occasion, to raise my
voice, and lift up my hand. Ido mint strenu-
ously assert, and upon that conviction I will ever aet,
that there never has occurred a time, nor can ever
a time occur, at which we should not listen to over-
tures of honourable peace ; or, farther, that we
aught not to seek to promote the happiness of the
world, by an anxious endeavour to terminate the
ravages of war. With such principles indelibly im-
pressed on my mind, I have now to advert to the
question more immediately before the tlouse. And
here, it were natural to suppose, that, in my deli-
vering my sentiments upon the merits of a trans.
sia,on, commenced, and, in a great measure,
conduded, by that great and enlightened states-
man, for whose principles, feelings, and nume•
rons virtues, I had ever entertained the most err
thusiastic veneration, and most ardent attachment,
I shouht be Inclined to view it in the most favour.

P.011.-+.10•••••-.
•
able light. That when this Negociation was not
only commenced, and condened under such cir-
cumstances, but that some of my dearest connec-
tions are interested in the opinion of this House
upon the subj-ft ; I say, so situated, it was insist-m-
-elte but to conclude, that I must have perused the
documents presented to the consideration of Parlia-
ment, with an eye traria' to find our that which
the Declaration of His majesty had annnu• ced to
this country and to Europe ; namely, that his en-
deavners to eff CI a termination of the war had to-
tally failed, from the injustice ant ambition of the
enemy. However I have coincide.' with my
Horourable Friends, who compose the present
administration, upon the expediency and propriety
co' entering upon a pacific arrangement with France;
however I apprecar: sae candour. sincerity, and
manliness, which cnarafterised its origin and prior
conduct ; yet, with strong emotions of repro, I
must declare m) sincere opinion. that there are, in
t'n progress of the N -griciali(m, some meter parts,
which I clown by any means approve. And al-
though my Noble and valued Friend below me, has
clew ly assured the House., that during the whole of
this Correspondence, the slightest shade or a differ-
ence of opinion did not exist amongst. His let j
Ministers, yet, with a full persuasion that toe roost
peer& unanimity and good andesstanding did exist,
with an unsh iken crinfidenc! in the st st meat of
Noble Ft lend, and in the integrity of his i lonnurable
Colleagues, I tin see, from the awful period w .en
death closed this scene upon the enlishtened States-
man, who first condufird the negoCiation, chara:-
ten Which distinguish one part of it teem the miser.
And here, Sir. I must remark, upon the observa-
tion of the Hon. Gentleman oppose:, ('sir. Mon-
tague), "that the letter of Mr. Fox on the intended
assassination, though not a diren overture, was
certainly expressive of something like a wish for
such an occurrence ;" that he knew hut little of the
manly and generous feelings of that exalted charac-
ier, of the eminent humanity. and cnnspicuous bene-
ficence which warmed his pensions, and ennobled
his nature ; who could suppose, that, on the pro-
posal of such a base and cowardly crime as an in.
tended assassination, against any human being.
of whatever rank or country, that great man
would not feel the spontaneous emotions cf a
generous indignation; and, therefore, it was, that
Mr. Fox felt unwilling to delay, or to be pre-
vented, by any delicacy. in adopti: g the most im-
mediate method of guarding against the commission
cf a crime, so detestable in its nature, and so horrific
to the m irked benevolence of his disposition. To toe
letter relative to the assassin, an answer was sent to
Mr. Fox, expressive of the determination of France
to treat for Peace, upon the basis of the Treaty of
Amiens; hut the characteristic can/tont of his great
mind, and The acuteness in his get.ius, refusedthe basis
of the •Creaty or Amiens, as an inconvenient nem. AR 4
liable to produce a distniisition inconsistent with ine
beneficial and desired objc& of his sceompUsismint.
In what m inner did he therefore proceed ? His first
objee was to pm to a decisive preof, sentiments,
which, in moments of heat and ton am-, were al-
leged to have fallen tinm the Chief of the French
Government. In consequence of those arnoments,
a jealousy had been excited in the mint or Mr. Fria,
that it wes the fixed intention of that Power to ex-
clude Great Britain from any interference with the
_coutinent of Europe. To bring this matte- to a
final and satisfactory issue, lie immediately appned
himself ; and the result was not only an absolute de-
nial on the part of France, positively confessed, but
Was actually brought into a principle, and recognised
as one of the two buses agreed upon by him end the
• French nliniver. The next objeft of that Statesmen
was to have Russia brought into the confederacy ;
and in the plain, undisgeised, rod decisive language
nt an honest and cotand Minister, he asks, will trio
French Governm-nt treat with Great nritain itt
concert with her magnanimous ally, the Emneior
of Russia. It is true, Fiance had the power of an
option. If she consents to such a condition,
England will negotiate with her tremorr nv.
—Thus, we find that during this part of the
correspondence. no such principle was once intro-
duced as that of actual possession, nor was the ats-
street proposition of the id: posed:to by any means
mentioned ; however the principle may become
afterward, fairly deducible. Indeed, upon this
point, I have listened with considerable attention to
the arguments advanced by my Noble Friend, and
having fully weighed the whole of what has fallen
from him, this night, and after a serious and mature
consideration of the Pipers on the T ible, whether
it arises from a perverseness of my judgment or not.
I do declare. that I can by no moans agree in the
conclusion, that the principle of actual possession
WAS ever considered by Mr. Fox as the see psi sea
of the Negociation. The two bases on which the
Negociation was founded, were such as in my
mind were most likely to produce the objee is view ;
they were of a nature calculated to make the con-
trailing parties sincere in their professions for Peace.
and therefore anxious for its speedy attainment.
They were, in spirit, what they appear in language.
truly honourable to the charaters of the rests, dive
empires. and likely to preserve the repose of the world.
From this convietion I do assume, that Peace was
equally desired by 'ooth Governments; nor do I sce
any jastifiable ground for the charges of duplicity.
deception, and bad Wilt, which have been so libe-
rally and perhaps inconsiderately indulged in against
toe enemy. It will be asked, what are my masons
for not giving credit to such aspersions! My
answer is, because they had no interest in such 4
system of aeling. My Noble Friend below me has
told the House, that this country has of been in-
jured by the Negociation; 'nether words, that the
enemy has gained nothing be the discussion This
our expeditions have sailed, our naval armaments
been completed. and our political Mecums preserv-
ed. But the Horn. Member opposite has charged
the Rhenish Contederstioe, and the changes of
Germany, to the inexpediency of the Neg icotion.
Wia that li-,n. Gentleman, or any oth-r
‘4niher, say, that whether the Negociation com-
menced, or failed, or succeeded, tam measures
and changes would not have taken place!
Perhaps it produced the War between Freesia
and France; but certainly, her this consernience,
Minister" were not responsible. they wci e p.enrd
between the choice of two evils, and they nosery
adopted the less But, Sir, reverting to the pro.
giess of the discussion between the •o.° countries,
we find Lord Ya,rmauth sent beak to reuse w übtana