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London, England, 1822-05-07 00:00:00

relieve agriculture. or if they were not likely with-
out doitig it to Nitre very materially the manufac-
turing end ceminercid interests, he would not have
intevfered. Had he not taken this opportunity of op).
po.iug all the proporitione, lie would nut have done
it in the Committee, except nuthe occurrence of each
separate, which he was not willing to do. The Noble
Lord ibipbeil the attentiou.of the Committee thin

fixed first of all upon the project for edvoncing
one million on woo:hooting corm He could not
see how they were to avoid going into the general.
discussion on this branch of the 'abject, which
comprised two very material considerations : first,
the once of corn, awl the mein. about to be taken
to raise it ; a' coolly, the effect of that on the 'other
interests. lie would trouble the House with a few
remarks now, promising to refrain from any in the
Committee. He had formerly stated that the
only object of the Committee was to raise the price
of corn. He was aware that the attempt could not
succeed for she present, and that it mutt be intend-
ed with disastrous effects to the country. He had
ventured to denounce the propositions hatching
fur that purpose, us empyric nostrums nut worthy
of puttee; lie still thong lit so ; they could pro-
duce no benefit to ugriculture, and they would be
highly detrimental to the mercantile and manufac-
turing'interesto. Ile thought the mune of all the
promoitious (rod there were numbers of them); he
had the same objection to them all, that they weed
to raise the price or corn at • time when corn was
50 per cent. above every oilier market of Europe.
He took the average to lie from 555. to 605., untl
bread in London was double the prise it was io
Paris. If the consumers were to be culled on to
pay more thin double the price of other cointries,
let it be coeisidered how this was to affect the coin-
' nitrite and' menu factures: but suppose the House
`agreed in the necessity of raising the price of corn,
•Itst would the agricultural classes require us
the exact reruuntratipg price So far he was
rpudy to go wish them, if it could be proved to be
precticable, as to do something to keep the price
stationary. But what Orlie was to be adopted
Would 55.. satisfy thein ? They may say that
they can't pay the lases out of that price. He
concurred with them—he would go with them
in getting the taxes reduced—hut he would not go
with them to raise the price of corn. and by that
means destroy interests which were equivalent in
importance at least to their own—he meant the
manufacturing and commercial iuteresta. If the
projects were not strong enough to raise the price
up to remuneration, grievously injurious as be
considered the present monopoly of the market
Vibe native grower, he would rather that than
any new regulation. It would be well to refer to
the course taken by Parliament in regard to the
corn laws. There were only three instances of
Parliamentary interference until the law of 1815.
He explained the state of the law as to the imports
and exports of corn in 1791; the prices were now on
the tame footing as in 1791, and lie did not believe
they could rise higher. In 1791, the average was 495.
In 1800 end 1801, there being a scarcity, the price
rose to 1275. ; it fell M 1801, 3, and 4, to 655.
The Legislature then.' in Tear Of the imports of
foreign grain, brought In the Cora Bill, which was
the lest'before these:crating else. It imposed a duty
of 4s. 6d. when the price was 63.., which was to
diminish to ed. 'when it reached 661. The last Bill
inigmedis duty of IS.. until the price reached 70s.
It was impossible dist the landed interest could go
on at the present rate; their distress was known
to all. ,•idtiot what was the remedy not to throw
their beirtlens on other shoulders. Let them com-
pel a redaction of taxes, or at least force Ministers
to u recouoideratiou of the affairs of the country,
so as that measures might be adopted commensu-
rate with the dreadful distresses of it. At the end of
the war the price of corn was raised to an average of
gg,., the taxer were borne with comparative ease.
71•Ite Legislature had since changed the circum-
stances of the country. The forty-three willious of
rental which Dr. Colvishoun valued the country at,
with wheat at 100 s. a bushel, gold being 3/. ler. the
ounce, had been sunk one-half by the alteration of
tl:e standard—the pressure of the taxes was exactly
doibled. Talk as they would, the country could
alsett go on in this state. The Same causes would
'Produce the same effects as they had done when
°they were before its operation. The difference be-
itween him and the Member for Portarlinston war.
Abet he took the alteration of the currency fur the
mosionine cause of the distrets, and over-production
for the minimums, while the Member for Portarling-
ton held his opinions rice versa. A bad harvest iii
two-thirds of the counties had contributed to the im-
mediate causes of the distress. It would be as well to
see how these causes had operated in former period..
He referred to the prices about the time of the Re.
volution and just after, the currency was much de.
based, and the price of corn went us• to Go..
About the year 1700, the currency was elicited
and restated, and the prices fell to 38.. and 355.
'fins was the same cruse with that in action at
present. Na. slid she fall of price reflect one ar-
ticle only, as corn, or one class of articles, a. the
wood. corn, meat, and other produce of the land,
but there was a similar decline in cotton, hemp,
and iron. In the year 1813, all these snicks
were double the prices of 1791 and 182. If
corn ouly had falleu, the cause might be exceseive
production ; but they who held so roust be
prepared to allege over-production we all other
commodities, which had all fillet,, though in a sew
instances, in variable degrees. What male the
evidence of the case cf the early part of last cen-
tury conclusive was, that then there was no paper
motley ; the currency was metallic, which was re-
stored from a debased and altered condition. The
subject was now more full of difficulty. In 1809
Mr. Horner stated the Batik of Eugland Holes in
circulation at seventeen mullions. He said that they
had lately added one million and • half to that sir.
eulution, for which he computed an accompanying
addition of three fathoms of country bank paper,
mskiug together four millions end a half, or • war
'Noel to all the currency added to the circulation
of the world in the same time by the mines of Amt.-
ries. He estimated the depreciation by those tour
millions and a half at Is per cent. It was to be
doubted if gold could thee be made the mea-
sure of the depreciation, and Mr. Horsier
thought that the gloomily of gold coin in cocoa-
lotion, ought. with a like quantity of Book pater,
to be left out of the question, ea balaiscisig
each other. Hr then estimated the depreciation at
IS per ceut. But let thew absent how the paper

had eubntly inerekted, • when! there were 29
milli utry book pews Dud 30 mill' a
B4' f
I
ritud enoru. Tbe queutity of both
tog raised from 96 'to 60 Whoa. lu
the r 'rid she es DC! ef.geld war 3!. 164 6d.g
it w
.ift '8 1. 170. 10d. re was impossible that
the r e I,Ortikr that time could have been correct.—

Mr... Homeland the House must have been deceived
qpun the price of gold. He did not blame the Bill
of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite for the evils.
The cause was the Act of 1797, and the effects
continued up to 1815, during all which time the
coontry was treated as feverish, or in In ague—
now starving for currency, sad now inundations of
paper. In 1815, the American wer being closed, vast
exports of manufactures sod of foreign merchan-
dise left the ports. So moth gold wu expected to
return, •thrence an attempt was made to raise the
standard- by it. The Government made sn effort
to riy the Bank, end the paper was drawn in. This
west on, but in six months producedsuch confusion
that the Chancellor of the ExcheNner had nothing fur
it hot borrowing twelve millions of the Bauk again,
and the paper was issued in greater qoatititirs than
4ver. In 1914, the Bank had 18 millions afioat—
in 1818 30 minima—and in that moment, when
the depreciation was at the worst, in came the Bill
tht Right Honourable Secretary. He acknow-
ledged that he hod keen one of the actors in that
tbeinure, as indeed he must always feel anxious to
prevent • discretioisaty and boundless issue of pa-
per. The ounce of gold was then said to be 41. 2s,
He 104 tit the time that it ought to be taken at
'6l. 10s. and that something ought to be done
to adjust fixed payments to the new standard.
Some such bold measure they still required. He
would not say that he was prepared to alter agaiu
it was one Hong to take an important step towards
a just object ; it was another to undo all again
for the sake of petty, miserable expediency. He
would support an effective measure; lie would not
suppoit a measure of • meaner character. In 1818,
the country bank paper was 27 millions; in 1819,
20, and 21, this was reduced to 13 millions, deduct-
ing one-half front this portion of the circulating me-
Mom ; and then gentlemen, forsooth, were much
astonished at the falling of prices, and could not
molt-wand the extent of the former depreciation.—
He stated (after various intermediate details) the
Bank of England notes in circulation to have been
reduced to what it was in 1816, and the reduction
on all the notes in circulation to have been from 60
to 36 millions. Here was the great canoe of all the
suffriings. He would not now state why it was not
possible for him to agree with any of the proposi-
tions, and why he must protest against any further
proceeding with them. The Noble Lord had made
large boasts of the increasing mercantile prospe-
rity, though no one connected with bovines. had
borne out the statement by evidelice of any sort.
The Noble Lord had said the same of mouuric.
tures, and no doubt that there was a temporary ad-
Toilet in them—they were saver in brisker occu-
pation—how profitably was to be determined. But
look at the causes of this. If they had wanted in
millions of coin, and manufactures had lett the
country to that amount, it would have the
same appearance of prosperity. and would be so far
valuable. They did sat went corn but gold, and
they therefore had been forcing the importation of
gold. The accounts of the exports were fora while
augmented. But this ass not a naturel agate of
things; it was a traffic which could not long cots-
, !Mut, although the Noble Loud inftrred that all
the other interests would be relieved through this.
The Right Hum Gentlemiu had boasted that his
Bull bud put the working cl into • bettercuoilt-
bon. So it hod. Wages did not readily follow the
decline in the prices of food. The labourer got
the ueceikaries of life for one-hull with the seine
wages as before. Hod they nothing to fear from
the adjustment which must follow of wages to these
priers ? The luxury which they could indulge in—
ite spoke it comparatively with their previously des-
titute coudition—would breed a spirit of discontent
when they .caine to be abridged of their., and
Parliament would have to devise measures for
keeping them down. The residue of their wages they
spent w giu or other indulgences, which accounted
for the temporary increase of revenue. He coffin-
deceit the Corn Bill good, merely because it lay as
a dead letter on the books. No Government would
ever undertake to enforce it in a case of rxigeocy,
and circumstances gave the farmers • monopoly of
the market. He
,deprecated any ides of raising
the price of corn. Could they he inked to
undertake to force the labourer to pay double the
price for food paid by the labourer of France and
America? He bad been told by the Member for
Nottingham, that there was a great demand for
English mechanics rod artificers—an that it would
be quite cruel, his Hon. Friend olperved, to prevent
them from going. Let the House think what this in-
(nested. Three or four years ago it would bare been
difficult to conceive the benefit to be derived front
niautifacturra to America, where an acre of ground
was to be had fur 1/, sterling. Now there were cot-
ton manufacterers in Philadelphia, and a spinning
jenny to Malisiachusett, which were found to be so
profitably, that orders were given for several more
to be erected. This transfer would go on still fur-
ther, if the prices of food were to be tamed, until
we became like Holland at the decline of her com-
merce. As to the propositions. and especially
the brat. of advancing one milli on grain, it
was so absurd that the Noble Lord must «bamboo
it. He considered all these measurer inefficacious
so long as the taxes were to be rallied out uf pro-
duce depreciated one half, which yet was dearer
by fifty per cent. than the produce io Amsterdam.
the only free market iu Europe. The project of
advancing one million had been compered to the
aid of Exchequer bills to merchants ; hut he
saw no likeness in the case.. Money was nil-
vowed to inerchouts un goad; which were wait-
ing for a foreign market. Money could not be
mlsanced on good grai.., sod the hail would rot
in the warehouse. The. project most be given
up. There was uo relief, for it was impossible for
the Noble Lord and bib Cove, aaaaa ent to take so
bold II step as it would require to extricate the
country. The only thing having that tendency was
to piers them for a reduction of lutes. They had
been coruipoelled to that already in a degree. Taxa- '
two. according to the Member for Purtarliog-
ton, must have been iiicicused ten per cent.
by
the alteration of the currency. lie believed
it to he 40 per cent.; but it must by that ad-
miasma hare had the effect of laying uu tau

Sr -

manses of new taxes
thought the project of ,
and mischievous. Still
because it west to ►edu
he wished to come at by
it all. After earnest!,

compel reduction of taxes,
tag up their time and _
opposing the motion, upon
take the sense of the House.

Mr. J. Bees?, said that the Hon. Gentleman
had taken the average too high at 55a..; it was for
England 'and Wales 445. 102. He did not admit
that the farmers had enjoyed a monopoly of the
market, nor could it be doubted bat that the con-.
trary was the fact, when the Irish importations of
grain had increased seven-fold. and of flour eleven..
fold in the last four years, without any alleged im-
provements in the cultivation. It was impossible
that these quantities could have been of Irish
growth. He ugreed that the best mode of relief was
by redaction. Much was no doubt to be done by '
redacing the tithes and poor rates, and without
this they could not support their present burdens.
His object was to got rid of the present Corn Bill,
.thrill- it. horrible restrictions, which formed •
:Crmost destroctive to the landed interests of
ountry, and not less so to the interests of the
people in general. The Honourable Member for
Coventry (Ir. Ellice) and other Honourable Gen-
tlemen expressed themselves exceedingly murexes
to protect the consumers. Bat who, he would ask,
were the consumers? The farmers themselves, \he
labourers, the mechanics of various descriptions em-
ployed by the farmers, and the manufacturers for
horns consumption, were all consumer*. These
were all in distress, and all equally stood in need of
protection, end must all derive it from the same
source, because the home trade was sinking, as it
always had and always most with the decline
of the agriculture of the country. There was
another clan- of consumer', for whom nn doubt
the Honourable Member for Coventry felt the
deepest interest, but for whom he (Mr. Be-
net) was nut at present disposed to feel much
cormnioeration, and that was the monied interest,
who had lienefired chiefly by the low prices. They,
no doubt, would view as • hardship any decrease of
the profits which they were able to draw from the .
exhaustion of the land ; but he (Mr. Derma) had
no feeling at all for then.—(Loud laughter.)
They had derived their greatest prosperity from
• measure which had aggravated, if it had
not in a great degree produced the distress which
weighed dawn the agriculturist.. What the amount
of the injury dune to the latter class might
be ; whether it did not exceed tea per cent. •
argued by the Honourable Member for Poeterling-
ton (Mr. Ricardo), or whether it reached 40 per
cent, as was asserted by another Hon. Member, or
whether it even exceeded that amount,as maintained
by some, be (Mr. B.) did not know, but what he
did know was that a considerable portion of the
clearers had arisen from that cause. During the
war, which was carried on by successive loans. to
provide for the interest of which it was necessary
to raise additomel tarter, and by the secrificeof funds.
whieh ought never to have been touched, the trade
of the country was extended in au artificial 'twiner,
slid when peace returned the trade f.ll ; some
of the taxes he was aware had been reduced, but
by no means in an equal ratio with the decline of
trade. in that state of things which followed, the
measure for restoring the currency to its former.
level had been adopted, which he viewed es a
second cause of the succeeding pressure upon agri-
culture. The only means, by which he cooceived
efficient protection could be given to the letter,
was that of a fixed duty on importation equiValent
to the enormous taxation to which the farmer of
this country was subject. He had been told by
many that the rate which he hod proposed to fix
was too low ; and there were 114 doubt on the other
hand persons who would Omit it tot, high. He thought
it would not he denied that the price which ought to
be used, was that which would give the same mcney
rent for land as was produced in 1792 ; and in order
to arrive at that, it would be necessary to attend to
the valuation of rent by the prices of corn at that
period, and to compare it with the present. The
average price of wheat for the ten years previOus to
179 /.. ova. 6s. Sid. per 'bushel. Supposing. therefore,
the gross produce of a farm tube 2,000 bushels, that
would hove yielded at that period 6271. Si. lid.
All land surveyors at that time gave as the value
of a farm, one-third of its gross produce; so that
the •ntrual rent of such a farm as he had supposed.
would be 209/. Is. 81d. The price which he
wished to obtain at the present moment was
Br. 41,1., which would give as the amount of the
gross produce of the same farm 8371. 10r. Of that
lie would take one-fourth fur rent ; because the
same land-surveyors who in 1792 gave one-third of
the produce on the value of a farm, now gave
Duly one-fourth ; assigning as • reason for the
ditlerence. the increare of poor-rates and taxes.
Cousequently he would have fur the rent isf
the farm 2091. 7s. 6d. bring only 30. 91d.
higher than the rent sal the slum farm iu 1792.
Every body would admit that the landlord was en-
titled to some higher rent at present that in 1792„
because the taxation is much higher than at dist
period ; but it was not his wish to give him an In-
crease of rent equal to the whole amount of the dor.
ference in the 'location at the two periods. If the
scale of duty which he suggested were imposed, on
I lie op ' gof the ports. the large importation that
would take place would bring e large sum into the
treasury, which would enable Government to re-
&ice a corresponding amount of taxation, as a set-
off, in favour of the consumer against die high price
of wheat. The Hon. Member then proceeded to
notice the frequent observations that were made •
the adruntege which the landlord had over the
helmet, which it was said enabled him to screw up Ibis
rent, to the highest possible pitch, which he con-
troverted. and said that the desire of profit
wit., es in all other cases, mutual ; and if the land.
lard was anxious to get the roost he could for his
land, the farmer in general was equally anxious to
give as little as he could help. He knew a farm
which used to let for 1,4001. a year. that had been
thrown Op, and although a short time hack fifty
persons would have been found ready to Wier them-
selves us tenuntr, not one could now be induced to
take it. It was said as an argument against the
impoortion of duties, that the distress did not arise
from importation ; that they had now the benefit of
protecting laws, uo foreign mu hating been for

aILeA•

mMiNIMIN.

wears brought into the market. That
, he was reedy to admit might have some
if his views had been confined solely to the
-gradation of the markets; but he was not
those who imagined that any scale of tutu,
Cld be imposed would have the efivet of
the farmer, unless they were accompa.
ALA great redaction of taxation.
,:lgawroar could not refrain from eijsressa
lag Ins surprise et the Coarse taken by-his Hon.
Friend the Member for Coventry, iu opposing the
motion for going into Committee. The ITonse
should recollect the unmerous body of petitioners,
manufacturing as well as agricultural, list it hail
to deal with ; and he thought it would not be
acting with common decency to the vast body
of highly respectable persons whose petitions
had led to the appointment of the Committer,
from whose Report the Resolutions about to br
considered had emanated, 'if it refused to go into
Committee upon these Resolutions, that being the
course usually followed in the practice of the House,
and having been adopted as the more convenient
mode of discussing such subjects. That was the first
consideration. Again, It was also necessary to con-
sider what was due to the Right Hon. Gentlernin
who sat in the Chair of the House.—(year, hear.).
His ditties were already sufficiently laborious, and
it was any thing but fair to hiru to increaseihrin
unnecessarily. by going into discussions while t„.
was in the choir, upon subjects which were more re.
gularly end more conveniently discussed in a Com-
mittee. He would propose, therefore, that the dh-
eussion should tint be prolonged, bat that the Home
should go into Committee. When they had heard
what was there proposed, it would be competent to
any Hon. Member to move that the Charmain leal e
the chair; but it was not just nor becoming con.
duct towards the Petitioners to divide without
hearing whin was to be proposed in their favour.
Mr. BROUGHAM concurred fully in the. suctes-
tion of his Right Hun. Friend (Sir Johu Neispon)
as to the propriety and greater convenience of
going into the Committee, and lie was sure his
Himoureble Friend, the Member for Coventry,
would give him credit for not urging th.t
course out of any respect for the plan of lea
Melisti'• Ministers, for he slid nut believe one-
ballif the propositions, as far as he had berm
able to understand them, that were put forth 111
their Resolutions. But as it appeared to him iin
men could refuse to go into the Committee, wiles:
it were Cu tridieidual, if such there were, which he
was sera his Hon. Friend was far from being, alto
held • belief in the perfect state of the present
Corry Laws, arid regarded them not only as need.
lag no change, but as so htt.d and adapted to all
couditions and exigencies, of the state, that no addi-
tion or alteration could be made in them but her
the Worse.

Mr. Moack so'id he could not fully concur in
the observations of the last speaker, although he
entertained most of the sentiments of the Hon.
Member for Coventry. lii his mind, the cause of
the distress was mainly to be imputed, tint to low
prices but to high taxes ; and he saw nothing in tlit•
proposed iteloolutious which went to the reduction of
taxes. He was not • friend to the present corn
law.; ow the contrary, he ins. an evenly to every
Corn Bill. He ilvnight them all a tax on the rest
of the country iii favour of the farmers. So ler
from viewing the low prices with dismay, lie koked
to them for thi salvation of the couotry—(hear!)—k.
he was sure the country gentleineo would never do
their duty to their country as they ought, in resisting
the iinpositiott of tutu-msery burdens, ilia the
same time that they agreed to tax the rest of the
country, they were allowed to protect themselves
by artificial measures to raise the price of corn.—
, (Hest, hear.)—The proposal to lay on duties oar fti-
reigu corn was at that moment premature, because
they had already .11 the effect they could hope fur
Oulu such at Olin. They had u compltte monopoly.
It Ms* said that great inconvemence would result
oar the opening of the ports, from the passing from a
state of complete monopoly to u complete fire trade.
He could only say it was • case which was foreseen
when the 14w was made; and he did not thick the
inconvenience was us great as it was tail to be. It
might be inconvenieut to the lundowoers, to whom
high prices were necestry in order to secure high
rents; but it could not be so to the farmers, who
were not interested in high rents; nor to the great
body of consumers, who were interested in los
prices. Doctor Paley looked out the variations
of the seasons and harvests as • providential
check on the rapacity of landlords; but he (Mr,
l‘loock) being of opinion that the seasons were on
the average of the world always neatly the same,
that when a season produced a scanty harvest in one
country, it was compensated by a eurreapooding
abundance in another, war rather disposed to view
the variations of the seasons, and their effects upon
the harvests, is • provieential provision iu favour of
free trade. He thought tine evil, it it were ooe, had
nearly reached its height, and that it was inspo,siiii
hie the prices could go much lower than et present ;
but he thought it was almost eqoally impossible
to look from any natural crimes for such a rise to
prices as would lead to the opening of the ports;
fur, in the space of got) years previous to 1797, it
had never occurred that wheat was so high as 80s.:
and he protested against the anomalous attempt, by
artificial regulation., an to raise puce* as to keep
theirs up to the level of the taxes.
Mr. Mats Baowss was understood to urge tha
propriety of going into the Committee, but to he
decidedly 'pima the wale of duties

been ►uggrurd.
Mr. EIMICE said his Right Ilonoui
nutiourable Friends were very ouch

they ►opposed him to intend either to
petitions of the agriculturists. ur to *pp'
preoriit coin lairs, lit compliance Mall
0111111./11 tlf the House. he was disposed
it amendment, hut he had thought it

e the oppurtont.y of expressitll hi*
tile torssure• olitout ►o be prypovett.
Sir W. W. WYNN woo uud.rs►ood
in algrreing ►o the House gOO% tot, Co
Hon. Member pledged himself to agree

.ulunous, or au. bvicrtbe to the al/loam'

sent Curn Laws being either good or utl

only *..ruin) to take any proposed

11114; coti.eJerstonti.

Sir K. Wit.surt said lie could unt,
with his duty to Ma elmslitUrsits, Coal
House going into the Committee, excel
underotautling of I a being for the por

i
in the last two yeah lie above We
ilt funa din peaglpiii absurd argument
H the! "apse with it, weight, if
Lice taxmt, so effect whieli ems' caw
I any means rather then not , see of {l)61ly exhorting the 1101111 e to `-ifigt.i.nlim
:es, and apologizing for tak- protecting
attention, he coucluded by atiedmith a
upon which he resolved to Sir J. N

E, DOI to Dr
WIIICD lud
loursble and
mistaken if
i oppose the
arose of thr
II the general
nut to press
t his duty is.
optuumof
I to say, that
utuntittee,
to to the kNr-
il the pre-
herwise, but
muslificatiuu
consisteatl!
[mut to the
apt with lII'
rpose of thr,