Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-08-10 00:00:00

tha bottom, so as to look under it ; heard her brother
James say that there was a reward offered for the
discovery of the murderer of Mr. Little. A question
here arose as to the legality of the line of evidence
elicited by the Attorney-General. In answer to the
Court wituess-said she raised the- curtain to look out ;
she was amusing herself by doing so; she had no par-
ticular object in looking out when she saw her father on
the roof. To Mr. Sydney : She raised the curtain partly
in the middle, and at either end of the table there was
room to go to the corner of the window. To the Attorney-
General : Her brother James was in the room at a little
engine he was making; when she saw her father on the
roof, James and Joseph came to the window and they all
saw him ; she stated to him (the Attorney-General) that
the last time she saw the duster was before it was
produced at the police-office about three monthe. The
Attorney-General then read her evidence before the
magistrates, in which she swore that she had seen the
duster in her father's house the day before Mr. Little was
murdered, and asked the witness which of those state-
ments were correct, to which she replied that she had
seen the duster three months before the murder. The
right hon. gentleman was proceeding with the examina-
tion when he was interrupted by Mr. Curran, and the
court ruled in favour of Mr. Curran's objection. Then
with respect to the discrepancy in her evidence in
reference to the ladder, in her examination before the
magistrates, she swore that her father did not take the
ladder up after him on the roof ; and in direct examina-
tion to-day she swore he did take the ladder up from the
ground after him upon the roof. In answer to Caief
Justice Monahan, she repeated that he had pulled up the
ladder on the roof, and that she recollected it now. To
Chief Justice Lefroy : She said that she now recollected
that it was three months before the murder of Mr. Little
that she had seen the duster. Joseph Spollen, sworn and
examined by Mr. Fitzgibbon, Q.O. : I am the son of the
prisoner; I want two months of being fourteen years of
are ; I remembe • hearing of the death of Mr. Little ; it
was between five and six o'clock in the evening when I
heard it ; I heard of it at the terminus ; I was at school
that day ; I returned from school between three and four
o'clock ; after hearing of Mr. Little's death I went to my
mother; I went into the bedroom ; I recollect the night
before—the Thursday night ; about night-fallen that
evening I was at home; I saw my father on that (Thurs-
day) night; I saw him between halt-past five and six
o'clock ; I SAW him crossing the rails at that time ; I had
not seen him in the cottage that evening before I saw him
crossing the rails; he was going towards the terminus
when I saw him ; there was no person with him; I was
standing at the hall-door of the cottage when I saw him ;
I saw that he had something iu his hand when he was
crossing the rails ; I don't know what he had in his hand ;
it was something as if it were long ; I had not seen him
from dinner time till then ; dinner hour was between
twelve and one o'clock ; I saw him again that night ; it
was on the roof of the forge I saw him ; that was about
eight o'clock; I was then at the parlour window; Mary,
and George, and James, were with me in the parlour at
that time ; no one else was there ; I was sitting at the
table; the table was in the middle of the floor; Mary
was at the window and GeOrge was at the window too ;
I did not observe how my father got on the roof; when I
first observed him he was at the chimney ; I think he was
standing on a plank ; the plank was stretching from the
roof to the set off on the chimney (the witness having
described the premises by the model, the examination
proceeded). I was at the right hand corner of the
;window, and Mary was beside me on the left hand side;
I think it was at the far side George was ; I think George
was at the window before either Lucy or me; the reason
why we were at the window was that we wondered what
kept my father out ; it was George saw my father first on
the roof of the forge; I recollect taking my tea that
evening ; it was about six o'clock we had our tea ; James,
and my mother, and Lucy, and George took tea that
evening ; we did not all take tea together ; my mother
and James took tea first, and afterwards Lucy, and
George, and myself ; my father was not there at the time ;
we had taken our tea before we had seen him on the roof
of the forge; it was about a couple of hours after we had
taken'our tea that I saw him on the roof ; about six
o'clock is our usual time fala taking tea ; I saw James a
couple of minutes before half-past five o'clock ; after he
got his tea he went to make a mineeuresteam engine; he
had it beside the fire In a drawer ; I saw him at work at
the engine ; he was working at it about an hour and a
halaland then he went to read ; my mother helped them
to their tea ; she remained in the room after that; she
was cot in the room when they saw his father on the roof ;
the two chicatilee I have described are, I think, the only
ones visible from the window; oh, yes, there is another—
the far chimney of the forge ; I know my father's razors
—(razors handed to witness)—these are my father's
razors; they are the razors he used to use before the
death of Mr. Little—(two other razors handed to witness)
—I. do not know these two razors ; I can write, but cannot
read well--(witness wrote his name on paper, in accor-
dance with the direction of counsel—the duster produced)
—I saw that duster before ; I saw it on the other trial,
that was at Capel-street office; I saw it before then; it
had been a sun bonnet, and my sister wore it ; it was
always a sun bonnet ; part of the time it was made a
duster of; that was at home ; 1 saw it before in my
sister's desk; I saw it. a couple of days before his Math ;
I saw it out in the old workshop (witness described the
situation of the workshop); I did not see it at the
cottage after Mr. Little's death ; I saw it next in our own
cottage, it was shown to me by Mr. Kemmis and Mr.
Ray ; that was before the last trial at the Police-effice;
I remember the day of the coroner's inquest on Mr
Little ; it was on Saturday ; 1 saw my father on that day ;
I remember when tho police were about the place after
the death of Mr. Little; I heard the police were in the
cottage, but I did net see them as I was at school ; my
father spoke to me about the police; he said if any one
spoke to me about a chamois or a red rag, to say I never
saw them before (sensation) ; it was about a week before
my father was arrested that my mother took ill; it was
in the bedroom she was ill ; all the family were in the
room when my mother complained of being ill ; my
father was there; my mother told me or .lames to go for
the doctor, but my father swore by his G—d if any of
them left the house he would take their lives ; I remem-
ber some padlocks that were in my father's possession ; I
knew him to make use of those locks; the locks were
used for locking the tops of the oil cans ; I only saw two
padlocks [padlocks produced and identified] ; they were
kept in the drawer when not in use ; that drawer was in
the parlour ; my father had these locks before I heard of
Mr. •Little's death ; he had them at that time, but soon
afterwardn only saw one of them ; I cannot say how long
before the death of Mr. Little I saw those locks with my
father ; I saw a hammer in my father's possession; I saw
more than one I would know those hammers again
(hammers produced); these are the hammers I saw with
my father ; he had the large hammer before the death of
Mr. Little, but he had not the smaller ; he kept the larger
hammer in the workshop ; I often used that hammer my-
self; I could not say how long he had the smaller hammer
bebre Mr. Little's death ; that hammer (the large one)
was in the cottage before the death of Mr. Little, but I
did not see it afterwards ; it had not that putty on'it then
that it has now ; I did hot see that hammer at all after
the death of Mr. Little till I saw it in the other court and
at our own house when I saw it with Mr. Kemmis and Mr.
Ray; I remember seeing another hammer with my father
bolero Mr. Little's death; it was an old one , he kept the
hammer with the putty on it (that is the large one) at the
workshop. In answer to a juror witness pointed out on the
model the place where he saw his father crossing the rails
and also the portion of the old forge. Cross-examined by
Mr. Curran : Never saw the model before. To the
Court : Did you see any other men vine that way ? he
was crossing alone ; James was •at his tea at the time.
Witness here describecathe position on the model in which
he first saw his father. Cross-examination continued :
Was sure it was his father he had seen there ; there was
no timber on the place pointed out by Mr. Curran ; there
were some waggons ; at half-past five his brother James
came into rho cottage ; James had taken his tea before
witness had seen his father ; James was at his tea when
he saw his father coming up with something in his hand ;
James was about a quarter of an hour at his tea; from
dinner time till then he had not seen his father ; between
twelve and one his father took his dinner ; witness took
his dinner between one and two o'clock; this was on the
day that Mr. Little was murdered at night ; had taken a
key from his father's pocket ; could not guess to the time
he had taken it; opened his father's drawers with it ; his
father was asleep ; there were eight sous. and 17s 6d in
silver in the drawers ; counted it and put it back again ;
went to the school at the Black Church ; went at nine
and returned at three o'clock ; was going to school a-year
before Mr. Little's death ; was punctual in going to
school; some days he stopped at home to get his boots
repaired ; was not at school the week or day on which
Mr. Little was murdered ; never swore that he was ; saw
his sister wear the sun bonnet; it is nearly three years
since he saw her wear it; never used it himself as a
duster, and was not in the habit of using it at all ; he
would know it by the pattern ; saw it a couple of days
before Mr. Little's murder; would swear it was less than
a week before that occurrence that he saw it ; when his
father used the words about the red rae, to him, did not
recollect if Lucy was present; she never told him any-
thing about what his father had told; never himself said
anything to her about it ; remembers the day his father
w.is arrested ; spoke to the police van about his being
arrested; had no conversation with his mother about his
father's arrest; had tto conversation with his sister about
it ; slept with his sisters and brother George ; his mother
also slept in the same room; self, brothers, sisters and
mother, took their meals together ; never spoae to any
lox
d abouthorf many
haen
ywroat
razors
r his i a
ft ht
tehr hr ahi s; edn
et
voe
rb i
hadn rtehceon -
la his hand s tve there with Mr. Rae and Mr. Kemmis ;
never wee near his father when he was shaving; George
was at the far side of the window from him, anti first saw
his father; there was a curtain on the window and a
table at the windo.v; did not know when he last saw the
sun bonnet need as a duster ; could read the word patent
on the ,padlock; knew it by the "crown,'' "V R," and
" patent'' on it. Mr. Curran requestel that the witnesse's
informations should be read over, having previously
questioned him as to their having been read over to him
before he had signed them. The reading of the informa-
tions occupied some time. Mr. Curran proceeded to
question witness as to the discrepancies between his
swornness: informationsWas livingat
a ntdhteh eßervoiaddesntooo n
con s thatuee
thed
de
a ym. Wirt ;
his mother scolds sometimes. Re examined by Mr. Fitz-
gibbon : His mother and sister were not et home when his
father was arrested, but he was ; before psis fathaß was
murder