The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1806-05-15 00:00:00

St. V7:-.cent presided over the Peurd of Admire!** I
e as nionthe of the latter period were a time of
peace, when. of course, there could have been no
vessels captured from the enemy. The Hon. Gen-
tleman irho stated. that, in the eight years pre-
ceding Earl St. Vincent's Administration, there
were built twenty-three ...hips of the line ; but a
reference to the papers on the table would sbew,
that,' ie the first year of that Noble Earl's being in
office, lrom :let 19:h of February, 1501, to the
tame month, in 1302, there were built three, in the
next year two, and in the third year five; making,
in the whole, ten ships of the line, -which was be-
yond the proportion of the favourable period of
contrast taken by the Hen. Gentleman. When he
cause into office, there were 15 ships on the stocks;
when he -left it there were 18; That these 18 had
not since been built and completed, was no argu-
silent against the Admiralty, as it was :efficient for
that Board to hive ordered them. All that the
Admiralty ever did on such occasions, was to order
the size and dimensions of the vessels; every thing
else belonged to the department of the Navy Board.
As to what had been said of the timber, he ob-
served, char, before the Noble Earl's time, the bu-
sicess stood still in our own dock-yards, merely to
giee a preference to the merchant-building, which
Was going on for several years, furnishing vessels,
which soon afterwards came to be repaired in
oar dock-yards. In favour of the Noble Earl,
he bad a right to take credit tor- as many
ships as were laid down, as their being finish-
ed afterwards was a matter thet belonged to the
Navy Board. He gave credit to Earl Spencer
for his concha& at the head of the Admiralty, as
tar as the knowledge that Nobleman had of the
subjea could be applied ; but Earl Sr. Vincent had
increased the ships of the line From 108 to 120, at the
same time that his repairs went on in the same pro-
portion. It was true, that at the end of a long and
expensive war, there must have been a great num-
ber of ships in want of repairs ; but the number of
vessels reduced to that state, in which only they could
have been repaired, must have been iu proportion to
the number retained in employment Tho' a peace
eels made,22o ships, amounting to almost the weele
naval force of the country, Were in employment, and
there wee no more than 15 which could have been
put into ordinary. Besides, it should be Considered.
that in ley irg t. e ships up in ordinary, great care
should be taken of their preservation. He admit-
ted that some of the largest ships were taken to
pieces, but that was on the recommendation of the
Navy Beard. It was not to be expelled that the
First Lord of the Admiralty would go down him-
self to inspeet the ships with one r f toe officers of
the dock aids ; he always took their state from
tee represeutation made to him. These ships,
when taken to pieces, had their materials distri-
buted in wt a-ever roamer might be must use-
lel to the serv:ce, and the remainder was disposed
et, which, besides the money it produced, saved
also re the enertry the expence of ship-keeping,
and the Warrant Officers were turned over to the
ships that were building. The Noble Earl also
gave orders, that the shipwrights should be kept at
weak upon the repairs, with iacreastet allowances.
as his obje.2 was to keep the fleet, as mach as po—
mule, in a condition ready for immediate service; and
in coniegnence of this determination, all the materials
of the ships usually brought on shore, such as their
guns, &c. were ordered to lemeM on board, which
was an arrangement that the Hon. Gentleman did
not think proper to Ore the Nehie Earl credit for.
nutnher of shies repaired in the yards,
from the lit of o.!toher, IVA, to the 15t!, of May,
lest% amounted to 61. This, he was aware, the
Hon. Gentleman could not deny ; but ha supposed
Le would ask why, during that time, were there riot
rate repaired in the merchants' yards? 1 o him the
reason was obvious, and he thought the House would
in a short time tie of the same opinion. Eighteen
frigates were repaired in merchants' yards—
Mr. JEFFERY called the Hon. Admiral to or-
der, as he digressed (torn the point before the
Hnuse. by adverting ro circumsvinces which hap-
pened, perhaps. 20 years before the subject of the
present charge arose.
Visount HOWICK sprike to order. He was sue-
piired. after the speech the Hon. Gentleman had
ma ie, and• the subsequent motion to refer the pa-
pers to a Committee, that he should interrupt the
lion. Admiral, who argued fairly from the papers
betore the House. One of the charges war, ter not
repairing ships in the merchants' yards, and his Hon.
Friend was only bri:lging iustences to prove the ill
ttleals of that praflice.
Admiral MARKHAM then proceeded. gigh-
teen sail were repaired in the merchants' yards.
One of these, the Spitfire, cost the country for the
TePair 1`2•3921.; and this ship, if she had been
beet new, would have cost about 7,0001. lie then
weed tome other instances similar to this, to slew
that the prellice of repairing in the merchants'
yards ought to be given op. ---Tlse Lem, a 74 gen
ship, cost when new, about 21,0001. bbe was out
of repair, and the officers of Chatham dock, after
inspeSing her, reported, that she could not under-
go a thorough repair for a less sum than 21,7351.;
the fset was. however, as appeared from the papers,
that the repairs of that ship alone, aduelly emount-
ed to no less a cam than 61.0001. i and this instance
hr ihoupht was sufficient to show, that after ships
had attained a certain age, it was much better not
to repair them. The next charge which the lion.
Gent. bad made was that Earl St. %greens
discharged the workmen from the different dock-
yards, without any reason whatever. Now, he
tbought it necessary to examine into this mauve.
Earl St. Vincent, when he came iato r {lice, found
that there was a great nominal force of arteSeers ;
be seal nominal, as many of there were not tit to
do duty, and it would be found, tau reference to the
papers now before the Heine, that many of
those who received the highest salaries then.
came into the yard on crutches, and some of
them actually were led in blind. The number
of men discharged in this way amounted to
327, and he was convinced it would not be con-
sidered by the House a wanton disc-huge. The
eateries of 90 of these men employed in Plymouth
Docks alone, for the year 1810 and 1801, amounted
10,(001. and if they had been superseded, as in
justice they should, their expence would have heed
ecarrely more than 4.0001. It now became nee's-
nor fit him to state to the House what the Noble

rarl had dons to keep.op the number of shipwrights
after this diminution. All tht.se men who were
considered the best workmen were allowed to take
apprentices. is consequence of which, from 1832 to •
18u4, 390 boys were taken in, each of whom are
now, according to the technical phrase, fit to take a
MASI'S birth. He merely mentioned this to show,
that when these men, which the Hon. Gentleman
talked so much of, were discharged, measures were
instantly taken tokeep u p the number. He also thought
it should be observed, thoughhe did not mean to put it
as an argument, that Earl St. Vincent WAS the man
who first took notice of our gallant departed hero,
Lord NelSon of the Nile. - When the Noble Earl
took the command of .be Mediterranean, Lord
Nelson was unknown,teing only captain of a small
64. Earl St. Vincent saw his merit, with that dis:
• riminatian which so particularly cheraelerized him,
and gave him.the command of a squadron, which
paved the way to his own glory and the glory of his
country. Sir Richard Strachan and Sir John T.
Duckworth had also been brought into notice by
him, and he did not think there could be more pro-
mising officers. With respect to an assertion made
by the Honourable Gentleman, that fifty-five ships
could be built in the count of a year in the
King's yards, he would only say, that the Ho-
nourable Gentlemen had misconceived the Weaning
of the papers on the subject, as it 'was impossible
there could be more than eighteen ships built in a
year, there being not more than that number of
slips ; what the Hon. Gentleman was thinking et was,
that, by a paper on the table, it was stated, that the
number of men, employed in the King's Yards, were
equal to the building of fifty-five ships, in the course
of the year, as it was considered that forty-one men
were sufficient for one ship of the line. • The Hon.
Admiral then referred to a system which had keen
proposed by Mr. Tucker, the master ship-builder at
Plymouth. This Gentleman proposed to keep the en-
tire Channel fleet in order, all the ordinary, and also
to build two ships in the course of the year, in the
King's yard. The mode proposed to do thus in,
was by allowing the men to form themselves into
classes, so that all the good workmen might work
together, and earn as much as they could. As it
now stood, they were all miseJ, good, bad, and
middling ; so that though the good workmen would
have fiaished their portion of the job long before
the bad, they would be obliged to wait for their
companions. From these considerations, he hoped
the House would see the there was not, in f. 40, any
occasion to have recourse to the Merchants' yards
for the supply of the navy, when the workmanship
was bad, and the price excessive. He then exem-
plified this by stating, that the Ajax, a ship built in
a trietchale's yard, and launched in March, 1793,
was, in the same year, withiiiit having gone any
voyage, on account of the bad workmanship,
obliged to be taken into port and repaired. ethic:),
with a further repair in 1802, cost the oration 23,0'001.
.I'he Hon.A•laiiral then referred to the charge eoeiest
the Noble Lail, lot not procuring a sufficient supply
of timber: and, after going into many minute al-
guments to disprove it, said, that if there were any
blame, it lay entirely with the Navy Board, as the
flooded Admireityhad meshing to d i with the sup-
ply of umber, there was some difficulty in
procuring it. The lion. Gentleman then said,
that having adverted generally to the charge, he
would not tremble the House further, but thought
than, in the preseet state of things, it was not neces-
sary to proceed further with the business.
Lord G A RLI ES conceived, that the whole tines-
rion resolved itself into one point, namely, whether
the navy could be kept(' up without the assistance
Fent- the merchants' yards ? He knew that the Hon.
Admiral had long entertained the opinion he had
Osis night stated to the House, but for his part he
sincerely hoped the Noble Lord at the Head of the
Admiralty would never give his assent to that new-
fangled doctrine. With respect to the motion
which had been this night made, he most undnunt-
edly would give his vote against it ; as, though he I
was not an admit er of the proceedings of the Noble
Earl, yet he was convinced that he had ever acted
frpm the purest motives. He could not, nor would
he attempt to follow the Hon. Gentlemen through
the whole of their very able statements, but he
could not help expressing his surprise at the con-
tradiction that existed between them. This he
thought might originate from dates, as the ships
stated by the Hon. Admiral to have cost so much
mrObe then their original value in repairs, might have
been built 2o years ago, when labour lie. were
cheap. lint was wiling to take it, that that was
not the he was convinced that the expeace of
repairs was extravagant ; but he could not give any
other reason for it, except that if a man wished to
repair an old house, the bill world come to very
nearly as much as Lie house originally cost There
was another idea which steuck him, and that was,
that merchants made very little by building ships;
and, indeed, if they were not promised the repair-
ing of some ships, they would be found very 'm-
eriting to undertake the building ; as by the latter
they cut the timber to waste, and by the former
they made use of those pieces of wood which other-
wise would be of no service. He had himself com-
manded the Ajax ; it certainly was, he said, as bad
a built ship as he had ever seen, and he 'had no
doubt but there were others equally bad; but, be-
cause five or six of the ships built in the merchants'
yards were bad, was that a reason why we should
be deprived of the advantage of recruiting our navy
(here, patticularly as our own Officers inspette4, or
at least on.tht to inspeet; the different wo•ks ? He
had ne hesitation in saying, that Earl St. Vincent
had doom a great deal of good ; he might have
been peiheps a little to rigorous in discharging the
workmen 1 but, however, the motive was good,
and the balance was in hii favour. Before he
sat down, he could not avoid slaking an ob-
servation on what had been said in praise of
Earl St. Vincent, with reaped to his first taking
notice of Lord Nelson. He was aware it was
the peculiar chareSer of the Noble Earl to make
a most judicious telethon amongst office's, but
he could-not subscribe to the praise which had
been given to his discrimination in the present in-
stance, as it was not he who bad first given Lord
Nelson the command of a squadron. He (Lord
Galles) had carried Earl St. Vincent out in his
ship to take the command of the Meditertaneau
fleet. and when they came there, they found Lord
Nelson with the command of a ojuadron, and a disc
tniguishing pendat.t. The Noble Lord concluded

by sayine, leliad stated this, not to eike from the
merit Of tbe Noble Eatl, but merely t., shew that
the abilities of the Noble and immortal Nelson had
distinguished him before Earl St. Vincent took a
cominand over him.
Viscour.t HOWICK was happy that the Noble
Lord, who had just sat down, had borne testimony
in favour of his Noble Friend the Earl of St. Vin.
cent. To every thing he had said on this head he
willingly assented ; but he mmlil roes agree with
him when he stated, that the wholeettestion here
reduced itself to il:4 single point of, whether we
were for the future to have recourse to merchants
dock-yards for the repair of our ships? That ques-
tion merely arose from the necessity there waNffir
his Hon. Friend going into detail in answeh-to
the variety of arguments whicls had been used by
the Honourable • Mover. He could not forbear
expressing big surprise it hearing the Hon. Gen-
tleman make a motion which implied a censure on
a distinguished personage, and then tell the House
that he had thrown the burden *wifely off his
shoulders. He was also surprised at hearing an-
other Right Hon. Gentleman state, th.it he second-
ed the Motion, because he did not understand it ;
and be would ask, was it decent in a Member of
Parliament, to second such a motion ; and at the
same time fay, that he knew nothing of the tenth ?
Was there no other ground than this, he thought it
would be sufficient for him at once to say, he would
give his decided negative to its going into the Com-
mittee. Charges of supineness, neglea, and inac-
tivity, bad been brought against F.a.l St. Vincent,
but who cou!ri be brought to suppose for a moment,
that the man, who with others had contributed to
raise t::e naval renown of Dreat Britain,was guilty
of any of them. The charges tan generally that
he had not built a sufficient number of ships, and
that he had not kept up a proper supply of naval
acmes in the dock-yards, and indeed be thought
his Honourable Friend had answered these com-
pletely by saying, that it was impossible the
Noble Earl could be present at all times to see that
the business was transacted according to his orders.
Here the Noble Lord entered into a detailed account
of the number of ships, which had been in com-
mission at the time Eat! St. Vincent came into
Office, and the number be bad left in commission.
I -There were five ships launched since the year 17304,
when the Noble Earl went out of Office, and he
hoped the Hon. Gentleman would give him credit
for these. While he was in Office, tight sail of the
, line had been laid (diem, and 103 of a smaller sort ;
I of these 90 had been sime :lunched, and were ac-
tually now in commission ; for these, and for all
other services, he thought the thaqics of the country
were due to the Noble Earl ; but instead of receiving
these thanks, charges of a criminal native were
brought against him. The Hon. Gent. had said, that if
Earl SO/intent had continued in office, the country
would hare been ruined, the battle of Trafalgar
would not have been won, and oat navy would
have been in a state of irretrievable dilapidation
Bute it there really had been any remissness, it had
not been with Earl St Vincent, who had been
tilamed even for too much intetfering with the
Navy &nerd. When it was remembered. tbat 120
sail of the line were paid off when the Noble Ad-
mit al entered into office, and were so soon after to
13c supplied again, on the renewal of the war, it was
not to be wondered, that more did not appear to be
done towards increasing the numerical strength of
the navy, than at any former period. But it was
said, that he crippled the operations of the artificers,
by employing them to lay up ships ins ordinary.—
He would ask, whether it was not cmsistent with
the soundest policy to preserve what we had from
decay, rather than to create by neglea additional
necessity for new ships ? This was the policy pur-
sued by Earl St. Vincent; and, to guard against
any sudden emergency of the state, he did what had
never been done before ; he ordered the guns of the
ships laid up to be kept on the decks, instead of being
landed, and put into the ordnance store-houses.
The Hon. Mover of this debate said, that our navy
was increased very little by the addition of enemy's
ships,during the administration of his Lordship.—..
Surely the Hon. Gentleman did not think that a
criterion of care and zeal, On the part of the Board
of Admiralty. It was not to get ships that we
fought, but to defeat the enemy ; and the additioa
of the whole Toulon fleet to our navy, in 1794, could
not be said to reflea greater credit on the Lords of
the Admiralty, than the battle of Trafalgar, in
which we only acquired bout ships. But, allow.
Mg this mode or argument, the Honourable
Gentleman had seleaed a most unfair compaii-
, son of periods; the one was entitely a period of
' war, and the other almost wholly an Era of peace,
when of course no ship, could be taker. In the
years 1791, 2,3, or 4, he would find even a lower
calculation of ships in commission than at the thee
he had instanced; and, upon a general view of our
naval establishment, would find the ships employed
in Earl St. Vincent's Presidency at the Admiralty,
to be as many as, upon an average, were employed
' during any administration. The Hon. Gentleman
fuither says, that, considering the stateet our navy,
and the insecurity of peace, the Noble 'Earl ought
to have embraced every means to increase the force
of our marine, and ought to have resorted to mer-
chants' yards in furtherance of that increase.
Surely his not having done so was not made the
ground of a criminal charge. He stated, and
truly, that a very large force of ships and
tonnage was possessed in met chants yards;
but did it, theretore, follow, that we should reame
to these yards, even when the King's docks were
competent to the service requited ? Certainly not ;
for in the King's yards ships would be better con-
structed, and upon terms more moderate. Earl St.
Vincent had himself, for a long time, entertained
the opinion, that it was necessary to build in mer-
chants' yard,; and he was only dissuaded from
acting upon the impression, by the representation of
the Comptroller of the Navy, who advised him to
forbear as long as possible, because the building in
private yards raised a competition for timber against
him in the King's docks. The Noble EMI acicuow-
1-•i7ed the cogency of the advice; but he was surf-
dente surprised by the Comptroller suggesting the
building in merchants' yards ; and, AS he was itimesell
absent from indisposition, advertisements were pub.-
fished for contrails. He was alas med for the con-
sequences, instituted an investigation, and the Board
of Admiralty actively interfered (undet the e nvicaion
arising ft= strong evidence of the defeseive (lust-

•
•
lily and enormnat prices of pi isately hilt ships) to
prevent any contra,fts being made. Froth the in-
vertigati.ot it appeared, that the .Ijaz and I:+e
AMA-. two 74%4 114.1 undergone a repair :sefore

they went to see; and yet, in the course of two
years from that time, their further repairs, in Mer-
chants' yards, cost Gi.vernment sizty•six thonsar d
pounds. Eighteen ft igates, in the same pi:iod, c( st
tor ',pail ing in pi ivate yards, 252,000 i.; ZIA yet the
Hon. Gent. (Mr. Jeffery) had said, thAt merchants
woold mania to build them new for 150,0001. H^

( Viscount :lowicl) would adduce an instance of t!
e►travagance of resorting ru manchants' yards,whicts
had UCcui led whiht he had been in the Admiralty.
The Li4lll.ot (14 guns, was built in 1776, fur 76,0001.
and had had considerable •repairs since. In ISO;
when she again wanted repairing, it appeared from
the Surveyor's report, that she would cost 24,00P1.

P-s other things of more consequence required to be
done, she was put aside for some time, and on being
lately repaired in a merchants' yard, she cost no less
a stiles than 00
than the immediate inspedioa

of the Surveyor of the Navy, whose condu ton the
occasion, would most likely cause his removal from
office. It the building of that ship had been contracted
for at 341. per ton, which was the highest price ever
demanded, the whole cost would have been 14,0001.
short of thts expence of repairing her. Was it WI,
then, the duty of Earl St. Vincent to avoid a mode
of proceeding so ruinous—a proceeding which, for
an extravagant price, yielded a ship of inferior ma-
terials ? It was an anxiety to screen the public
from excessive burdens, and not, as it had been
termed, a niggardly, parsimonious system of the
Noble Admiral, that prompted bun to pursue the
course he did. The necessity for resorting to private
yards might sometimes be such, as would make it
culpable not to use them, inasmuch as had ships were
preferable to none;but this necessity nut exist at
the time Earl St. Vincent was First Lad of the Ad-
miralty. It had become his ( Visct. I lowicl's) duty
to inquire into the p..wers of the Merchants' dock-
yards, and he had some information to submit to the
House on the subjea. The number of shipwrights
in those yards was 2345 ; in the King's-yard 2481.
Of tonnage, 2,268,570 was k-pt ii repair in Mer-
chants' service, and 100,000 tons of shipping an-
nually buil; ; besides which, 256,000 tons of the
Royal Navy have been allitailftleoe in private
yards, as well as repairs. In the King's-yards, and
those of Merchants, the number of tons was 6 1 3,000.
According to the Report of the Navy Hoard, the
number of ships of the line, which ought to be con-
struEtad in the Royal Docks, was 55 sail of the line
in a year, if the shipwrights were employed upon
nothing but new work. At this rate, 664 sail ought
to have been built, from January, 1793, to J
unary, 1904 ; *whilst. the truth is, that only 41,
ships of the line had been construded. To

curious statement quoted from the Navy Bn
might be added the insulting fact, that Mr. W.
in a printed letter addressed to Earl At: Vino,

has stated, that in his yard, at Deptford, hay
only 160 shipwrights, 8,000 tons more of shipp
have been finished in a year, than in any three of •
King's yards in that period. Certainly, prig
yards peesseued the advantage °Clueing all a
men, whose relative speed must be superior to th
of many pers•ins who continue to receive emplc
ment in the King's yards ; but upon the Void! Al
NartiSSUS frigates, which were built in Well's yar
7,400 men were employed (or so many die
work were done) ; and, upon the Circe an
!'glues, two 31-gut. frigates, 7,600. The Nob!
Lord hoped he had 'hewn that the endue
of Elirl St. Vincent was not attributable to so-
pureness, bat that Le refrained from making
use of merchants' yards, from a settled aad well-
s, ounded c,,nvictien of the bad policy of that
coutse. He next came to notice what the Hon.
Gentleman liad preferred as a charge against the
Noble Admiral—a scanty supply of ship timber.
This. however, lay enrirely within the province cf
the Navy Board, and except in cases of evident
remissness, the Admiralty had no right to interfere.
Headmieted that the quantity of timber was rather
smaller than in former years, or doting the 14•. t
years of Earl Spencer's Administration. The Hon
Gent. had said there was no difficulty in procuring
timber, but he Lad only to refer to the leiter of the
Navy Eloatd, to ,hew that it was getting very scarce.
It the Noble Admiral would only accept pt line wood,
all that he obtained was serviceable; but the defi-
ciency in the yards was not owing to him, as he
found that the order at 1776, for kiepnix clime
yeas, supply of timber constantly in hand, since
the year 17;,6, had been negleEted. To obviate
this. he took steps fur procuring it is, South %Valet.
an.t had in contemplation to dire,l the builelin,f
of ships in the East ludic,, and to get wood
Dalmatia: ibis last idea met with oppositne ,
acid the advantage of the Noble Earl's intentioi..
and inqiiiries teiulted to the enemy, as 40,000
uni, which hark been felled on the coast
of Dalmatia, fell tate their hands. The com-
plaint of a deficiency of timber, arose at present
only from Deptford and these yards where they
complained ot wanting small timber fur the taws
of their small vessels, but stated, that they were
even overstocked with the larger sorts used for ships
of force ; and in others of the dock yards, it was
stated, that the stores of un.ber were really in the
way. 'lle Noble L.oid then read some extracts
from the Appendix to the Report of the Commis-
siotlet s of Naval Enquiry, to show that abuses in the
receipt and management of thither prevailed in tl e ;
public yards. amounting to evidence of gloss timid,
and rel-ixation of dory, which he hoped to sea
speedily remedied. This distil:leery had been under
Earl Spencer's administration and ne Noble
Earl, who was charged with vexatious piecision
in the dealings wit'a the timber-nterchanta.had only
enforced the delivery of propel timber, accordrue
to the controels (hear! beer!). It was said, if Earl
St. Vincent hid not interrupted the procuring of
Foseign timber in the usual channels. no scarei'y
would ever have been felt; the obj,:ct of the Noble
Earl, however, was most salutary; it was to pre-
vent the expenditure of vast sums of money which
had been advanced to pnr:base timber in Holland
and elsewhere, the best of which, when obtained.
was not superior to the worst of this kingdom ; and
out of 2900 feet of which, cut up lately at Lel,-
ford, only 170 a feet were serviceable; wig then Lill
St. Vincent liable to censure? Not or.ly was
no charge brought against him wbiei,
unanswered (liege! bear!) but tacit elnerse Lad