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London, England, 1824-06-04 00:00:00

none of that country towards the support of their religious institu-1 Member's auggestion, but be feared it could not be practically
i doss ; for your peutionen are enabled to state, that the Protestant ' acted upon at fitment.
subjects of his Most Christian Majesty arc not only admissible and I Mr. CU RTEIS expressed a hope that ROTC permanent law
admitted to all offices of trust, honour, and emolument in their Isht.uld be adopted silt regard to the corn reruhuions. As an sgri-
, native country, but actually pinseas a letger extent of accommoda- eulturalist, he wished to kt.ow what. he was to Let before he gave
lion for religious worship than is provided for any class of Pro- up tha
et w
illhicwas drta h he had.
read a third time.
testants in Great Britain. Th B
" That the Protestants of France, as ascertained by their own Mr. Cl/ wrEIS nisited a ammo be introduced appointing In-
beirg ispectorteeieneral to leek rot he average..
consietorin in the year 11:22. amounted to 542.000 souls,
about one fifty-fifth part of the population vi that country, and Mr. HUMUS:M/S observed, that the Government had no wish
lees than owe-eleventh part of the amount of the Catholic population .to extend their patronage by any such appointments ;as he and
of Ireland. ' they were satisfied the persons .heady appointed would do their
That this enumeration comprises the Protestsnts of all deno- duty.
tuinations in France :that they poises)) 345 temples, and 12S other The Bill was then passed.
houses of prayer, tusking a total of Bt3 places of religious worship, VAGRANT LAWS.
of which 21 had been Catholic churches, being in the proportion On the motion of Mr. ESTCOURT, the House went into a
of a place of worship tor every 1,122 per,
of alleges of thatcom- Committee of the whole House on the Vagrant Act. Bill.
munion throughout France. Mr. JOHN SMITIi wished, that in all case' where a party was
" That since the restoration of his 'Most Christian 314eety, in charged with the indecent exposure of his person, that he should
1814, the l'atholic Government of France has coutributcd to the not be punished without the intervention of a Jury. Such a charge
maintenance of the relitrious institutions of the Protestants in that would crush any man in public opinion, which was a punishment
country the sum of 4,499,441 francs, in the following manner : too severe to be visited on any subject by the summary decision of '
Fur temples, 541,tital; for pastors, 3.901,2;9 ; and for ocessional one 31agistrate. Ile believed that the 31agistracy of London gene-
relief
fur pastors or their widows, A 5,4761 all which aide are "du- rally discharged their duty very well ; but there acre many Ma-
sive of the provision made by .that Government for the education gistratea, particularly in small corporate towns, to whose decision he
of Ludiernii and Calvinist Aim lsters, in the two faculties of theo-
should not like to be subjected. cunt before one
logy at Strasbourg and Montauban. Sir J. NEIL' PORT objected to summary
" Your petitioners most humbly submit, that no valid reason can Magistrate, and on the evidence of one person. The higher the
be given fur the Protestant Government of Greet Britain not imi- °deuce, and the higher the punishment, the greater should be the
tating the liberality of the Cathelic Government of France, even if benefit, of trial hi, Jury.
the Irish Catholics did not possess the above-nientioned peculiar elr. ESTCOC NT said, that it was the intention of the COED-
claims upon the gratitude and justice of Great Britain. inittee at first to omit the
clause ; but they found, on consultation
" Anti your paitioners respectfully urge this consideration the with the Magistrates, that some provision to meet the otrone was
more earnestly at the' present moment, because it must be e . The clause, however, was so narrowed, as to apply only
admitted that whatever may be the financial difficulties of whereaZe indecent exposure was made to offend the feelings of •
Ireland, no part thereof I:as been produced by the milll'a' woman.
nagcnient of l'atholic Administrators of the public funds, me. moNcK thought, that an appeal should be allowed to pe.r-
or by any expenditure of those funds upon the Catholic per. sons charged with such au offence, front the decision of the Maws.
Lion of the population, either as salaries of office or pensions, or in trate ; and no sentence should he inflicted till the appeal was
aid of their institutions. On the contrary, the only aid given to , decided.
them by Parliament is the reduced annual grant of 11,9111. to the ' Mr. PEEL observed, that this cue was to be decided on evil-
eeminary of 3laynooth ; whereas, if the tonne liberality had been 1 dente; and, from all he hail heard, lie believed that the propcse.l
extended by the Protestant Government cf Great Brituin towards' clause was absolutely necessary. As the severity of an appeal was
the Catholics of Ireland, as was extended within the same time by I now given, and no man could be sentenced without a trial, he must
the Catholic Government of France towards the Protestants of that support the Bill. He felt a delicacy in discussing any such clause ;
country, the contributions in the aid of the Catholic institutions of but he had the best reason for stating, that the frequency of the
Ireland (taking into account the ratio of the population) must have triune rendered a summary proceeding necessary, though may in
exceeded 2,062,0001. sterling. the first instance. The fear of punishment should be held over the
" Your petitioners, therefore, humbly implore this Honourable head of :at h offenders.
House to consider the destitute condition of a large portion of his! Mr. Alderman BRIDGES said a few words, after which the
Majesty's Catholic subjects in Ireland, and that it is owing to clause was agreed to.
circumstances necessarily resulting from the past system of British I On the clause that persons who had been twice convicted, who
policy and govennnert eractised towards that country, that the : had broken prison, and persons who had resisted the officers with
great body of her population is eqw;,ga of places of public ' violence, should be deemed incorrigible rogues, and imprisoned
worship, aed of the mutes of erecting them, that it may, there. I twelve months anti whipped—
;ore, please this Honourable !louse to extend to matters of li rc -1 Mr. Alt )NCli moved. as an amendment, that the words, " and
bian the same libetal principles as have been latterly applied to whipped:' be left out of the clause, as he considered whipping as
questions of commerce and revenue, and to adopt such measures an uedefineel and degrading punishment, nod in nowise tending to
as in its wisdom may be esteemed best calculated to provide ran. time Worm of the morals of the prisoner.
venient places of worship for his Majesty's Catholic subjects in 3: r. Eu ic le it en r and Mr. J. SMITH sup; orte 1 the amend-1
Ireland. " And your petitioners will reaprae. Ime • the latter Honourable Member observing, that in France noi
".JA 31 ES EDM'ARD I)EVEREUX. corporal punishment was inflicted, except branding, and that if
" ENEAS AIACDONELL." I II irty millions of people could be controlled without it, he thought
The Hon. Gentleman loped this petition would produce • deep it a le
argumen that it might be dispensed with.
impression on the House. 1 Ale EsTuol' t ItT was in favour of the clause. He deleted that
Mr. I). BRONVNE bore testimony to the want of Roman Ca- it might be recollected that the law TIM greatly altered ; that it
tholic chapels in the diocese in which he resided.—Oldered to be was formerly incumbent on the Magistrates to see that all rogues
printed. were whipped, that penishment was only now reserved for incorri-
gible rogues.
Mr. PEEL also supported the clause. He did not see any thing
so very unpopular in whipping. The discussion should be confined
to the whipping, as directed in the particular clause; and they
ought rot to go into the general question. From the experience he
had had in criminal justice, he thought that the fear of whipping
operated very much to the suppression of offences; every effort
made for the improvement of a prison lessened very much the terror
of imprisonment ; he could not therefore go the length of abolish-
ing all bodily pain in awarding punishment.
Mr. R.SMITH said, that he had no objection to the infliction
of the punishment on the two first classes of offenders; but be con-
fessed that the mere circumstances of opposing the officers of jus-
tice was too vague an offence to expose a man tu such a punish-
ment, as a person very often might, from sudden indignajoe
being charged with a entre of which he was connives of
nocent, be induced to oppose and commit an assault on the officer;
and he thought it too much to say that for such conduct he should
be treated as an it:corrigible rogue. He, therefore, unless some al-
teration was made, would vote for the amendment.
After some further observations from Mr. W. SMITH, Mr. J.
SMITH, Mr. MARTIN, Mr. 3lowce, and Mr. ESTCOVAT, Mr.
Mostee consented to withdraw his smendment ; amid on the sug-
gestion of lily. R. SMITH it was then agreed, that persons opposing
the officers should not be considered as incorrigible regues till after
they had been convicted of the offence for which they were appre-
hended.
The clause was then agreed to.
The other clauses of the Bill were agreed to, the House resumed,
and the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow.
COMBINATION LAW'S REPEAL BILL-
Mr. 111:3IE moved, dot the Combination Laws Repeal Bill
should be re-committed for to-morrow.
Mr. J. WILLIA 315 said, that he was happy to find that the
whole operation of the Combination Statutes would be swept away
by the present Bill.
Mr. G. PHILLIPS hoped that it would be understood, that
notwithstanding the repeal of the laws, combination would be
discouraged by every poseible means.
' Mr. Alderman C. 831.1 TH said a few words against the repeal
of the Bill. Ile thought it would do more harm than good.
Mr. HUAIE made some observations ; after which the Bill was
re-committed for to-morrow.
SLAUGHTERING HORSES BILL.
Ore the motion of Mr. MARTIN, the Slaughtering Horses Bill
was ad a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow.
MARINE INSURANCE BILL.
Mr. F. BUXTON moved. that the House should resolve itself
into a Committee on the Marine Insurance Bill.
On the motion, that the Speaker do leave the Chair—
Mr. Alderman THI„13111SON opposed it. Ile observed, that
there were 1,500 persons of the highest respectability, whose inte-
rests would be completely ruined by the operation of the present
Bill. Ile believed the present system of Marine Insurance was the
best that could be devised ; and he therefore should move, as an
amendment, that the Bill be referred to a Select Committee up
stairs, to take evidence, and to report thereon to this house.
sir F. OAI3IANNEY seconded the amendment, but was inau-
dible in the gallery.
Strangers were ordered to withdraw., and the House divided.
For the otigitial motion - 211 1 Against it - 251 Majority - 4
Mr. C. FORBES opposed the Speaker's leaving the Chair, upon
which the House divided, when there appeared—
For going into the Committee - - 33
Against it . 22
1 On our re-entering the gallery, we found Sir F. 0313IANNEY
on his legs opposing the BilL The Hon. Alentber moved, as an
amendment, that the operation of the Bill should comntence in the
yeti of our land 215/0. (Bursts of laughter.) The Chairman
asked the lion. Gentleman if he persisted in his amendment. He
replied in the affirmative, and declared that if lie was certain of
standing alone he would divide the House on it. (Continued
laughter.)
The Committee then divided on Sir Francis's amendment—
A yes - - - 12
Noes - - - 33
.Majority against the amendment . —2l
On our re-admission to the gallery, the Committee were consi-
dering the saving clause respecting the exemption of the chartered
Companies from the operation of the Act. On this clause the
Committee divided—
For the clause - -
Against it

IRISH LINEN TRADE.
Mr. Secretary PEEL presented a petition from the bleachers of
Belfast, praying fey the continuance of protection to the Irish linen ,
trade.--Ordered to lie on the table.
THE LATE MISSIONARY SMITH.
On the dropped order fur resuming the debate un the Address
respecting the late lilissionary Smith being read,
Dr. LUSIII NGTON moved that the further discussion should
I ',e postptir,ed till to-morrow (this 'day) se'nnight. The postpone-
ment was rendered necessary, by the absence of 30 many gentle-
men who had left town for the holidays.
Sir R. WILSON rose to put two 9uestior.e to the Colonial Se-
cretary ; first, whether the printed minutes of evidence laid on the
table of the House contained the whole of the official copy of the
information sent to Government? And secondly, whether he was
prepared to admit or deny the authenticity of the notes of evidence
published by the Missionary Society l' It was obvious that if there
bid been any suppression of evidence. a serious charge rested upon
the authorities of Demerara. and that until the correctness of the
notes of evidence published by the Missionary Society was ascer-
tained, it was impossible to determine the degree tat misconduct
that ought to be imputed to the proceedings of the Court by which
Smith was trod.
IMr. W. HORTON said, 'lie could inform the Hon. Member
for Southrsrk that the copy laid on the table was printed t er Nam
tram the copy transmitted to Government, without the omission or
addition of a single word. li'ith respect to the authenticity of the
ropy published by the 3liesionary Society, In: was not in a position
either to affirm or deny ir.
Mr. F. BUXTON raid, that as sonic dt übt had been stated as
to whether hearsay evidence was Mused in favour of 31r. Smith.
he begged to inform the House that sllr. Elliot, a missionary. who
was in Court during the trial, could prove the tact, that the Court
would not allow 31r. Smith to pursue the course in his defence
which was follaweel for the prosecution.
Mr. LOtlill ART asked whether it was true that a Proclams-
den had been issued by the Governor for the revocation of manna.

law?
On the question for postponing the debate till to-morrow se'n-
night—
Mr. BROU(3HA3I said, that he felt it would have been much
rases expedient only to have adjourned the debate till to..norrow,
had he not ascertained that so many members had left town for the
holidays, and therefore that the resumption of the debate before
their return would expose them to great inconvenience, and to the
almost inevitable risk of dividing the House without their presence.
He therefore very reluctantly consented to its postponement so long.
The motion was then agreed to.
SCOTCH COURTS OF JUSTICE.
Mr. Secretary CANNING suggested to the Learned Lord
tAdiocate), who had a motion for that evening to refer to a Select
Committee the Ninth Report of the Commissioners of Courts of
Justice in Scotland, whether, as the Report was exceedingly
voluminous, it would not be advisable to postpone the motion for
theAfresent.
pter a few words from Mr. ABERCROMBY and Lord A.

11A1111TON--
The LORD ADVOCATE agreed to postpone his motion.
He gave notice that he would bring it forward early next Session.
NEW CHURCHES.
On the Order of the IMy being read for the House going into
Committee on the New Churches Bill—
Colonel DAVIES, as a matter of personal convenience, re-
quested that the Committee might be postponed till to.morrow.
Mr. JAMES would prefer that the question should be then
disposed of.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then moved,
that the House resohe itself into the Committee.
Mr. JAMES said, it was his regard for the Established Church
that induced him to oppose the motion. These grants rendered the
Church a mendicant body, and thereby depadetl it in the opinion
of the public. The Church of England was splendidly endowed,
and able, from its own funds, if they were properly applied, to erect
such places of worship as the increase of the population and other
circumstances might render necessary. Why were not the mem-
bers of the Church as zealous in building as the Dissenten s Be-
cause, after three presentations, the right of presentation to a church
built by an individual, devolved to the Bishop of the Diocese. He
recollected sonic years ago that a respectable Clergyman named
Bragg opened a chapel at Liverpool, in which he celebrated wor-
ship until be was deprived by the Bishop of Chester, for preaching
in an unconsecrated place. The Rev. Gentleman then took out a
licence as a Dissenting Minister, but continued to read the church
prayers. On his decease the chapel was sold, and it was now con.
rated into a great sugar-house ; a large boiler occupying die place
in which the pulpit formed), stood. (A laugh.) The Right Hon.
• Gentleman must have a heart of adamant to tall for suet
grant, considering how the people were burdened with taxes of
every kind, even on the air they breathed. lie should therefore
move, that the House resolve itself into Committee nut until that
day six months.
31r. HUME seconded the amendment. lie was the more ready
to support it, as it was stated that the money would not be used for
some nine, during which the interest was to be appropriated to the
support of the new Bishops in the West Indies. No account bad
yet been given of the million formerly voted for this purpose. At
Newington, 1,586/. had been absorbed in lam expenses by one
attorney, respecting the building of a church in that parish. For
the payment of these noes, 121 distresses had been levied. In that
number he did not include eighteen Quakers, whose goods they had
allowed to be taken from them. He begged to ask the Chancellor
of the Exchequer whether he intended, to insert a clause in this
Bill to enable the Commissioners at Newington to increase their
assessments
The CHANCELLOR of the EXC II E(IUER said, the Hon.
Gentleman had made a wonderful confusion between the Commis-
sioners under the general Act in 1817, and those under a private
Act for the parish of Newington. He had no knowledge of the
Newington Commissioners, and knew of their existence only from
the squabbling which he remembered four or five years ago in that
House reepecting this Act.
Mr. HUME said he would divide the House, if only his lion.
Friend (Mr. James) divided with him.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, but we understood that
no divialon took place.
The amendment was then negatived, and the House resolved
itself into a Committee of the whole House on the New Churches
Bill.
31r. M. A. TAYLOR suggested the propriety of allowing per-
sons who subscribed towards the building of churches to have a
vote in the selection of the clergyman. It such a permission were
given, lie was satisfied it would do much to streegthen the growth
of orthodox Protestantism.
The CHANI.:ELIAnt of the EXCHEQUER Raid the Bill
contained such a clause. 'rime trustees were to be appointed at the
request of subecribent, who were to elect clergymen for two terms
of forty ,years.
The Bill went through a Committee, and after a few observatiorm
from Mr. Maxwell, Mr. C. C. (Vattern, and Mr. ldmitk, the Re-
port was brought up, and oral led to be taken into further consi-
deration to-morrow.
WAREHOUSED WHEAT 1111,L.
Mr. HUSKISSON moved the third readieg of the Warehoused
Wheat Bill.
Sir E. KNATC lIBU LI. wished the duties on wheat and flour
to be equalized.
Mr. HUSKISSON Intl no oNection to the principle of the lion.

12
Majority —25
Alderman TIHYM PSON then proposed that the subscribers
should be liable to the full aittilint of their *whines.
Mr. T. WILSON supported this amendment. and Mr. HLS-
KISSON opposed it, observing, that it would interfere with pri-
vate contracts, at. no such pow(' existed in any Act now in force rt-
lative to ritarttredcosopsnies.
The clause was withdrawn.
Mr. Alderman THOM PSON moved, that the names of the sub-
scriber' should be enrolled in the proper office of the Court of
Chancery.
The Committee divided on this amendment,
dyes . - 7
Noes
slsitnity against the amendment —2:l
Mr. Raw; DEN then left the Chair, and the Report was ordered
to be received on Thursday ism.
SILK TRADE WAGES BILL.
After a few word, from Mr. F. Hu IT ON. in favour of the post-
ponement of the measure, the Silk Trade Wages 11111 was read a
third time, and passed.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the House
adjourned at a quarter-past 12 o'clock.

ORDERS OF THE DAY.
Newfoundland Judicature Bill—Committee.
Land Tax Redemption Bill—Committee.
Impounding IhAt7eStif% ( Ireland ) Bill—Third Reading.
Rank hill—Thud Reading.

PRICES OF FOREIGN
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