The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1804-07-03 00:00:00

CIVIL. LIST.

The House havingreseKe:l itself into a Corn-
mitte.•, and the accounts and reports of last Session,
relative to the Civil List, being laid before the same,
together with several other accounts ;
Mr. PLTI' said, he should first call the attention
of the House to the state of His Majesty's Civil L•st,
which had been already brought before the consi-
deration of Parliament; and lie should explain the
state it was in at the present moment. About two
yetats and a half ago, a report was made on. this
v,,hjea, an i until that period, the expeaces of the
Civil Li: t bad exceeded the estimate made in 1787.
These increased exaences were found under the de-
tailc I heads of salaries to Ministers at Foreign
urts, household charges, occasional payments, and
ne reared charges attending the police of the country ;
the increase of stationary for both Houses of Patha-
n en, ; rh.• excess of secret service money; the rumor-
o..., expenses arising out of the relative situations of
fotei;.l powers, and the difference in the state of
hurvreince 17e7. In 181,2, a sum was voted
to oiselutge a large arrear upon the civil list,
and at that time it was stated that an entire
wise a: ragement was necessary. But nothing on
the subjea had been done. Since the payment
of the last arrear, a further excess of dent,
added to what was paid eff at that time,
amou.a...d to 590,0u01. In the space of two sears
and a half, the .rnotont was 230,0001.; an increase
only conformable to that which had taken place be-
fore that time. He, therefore, hoped that after the
sum voted in 140% the House would have no hesi-
tation in voting the last mentioned suns. With respea
to the state athe Civil List, it was the opinion of
the Committee to a hum it had been referred, that
many changes ou.{l,t• to take place in it ; and that
many of the cha g.te upon it ought t r be transferred
front the Civil Lis:, and made part of the :ainual
minutes. Many of there were new is their nature,
and were carried to an extent which certainly
could not be easily foreseen in the ye •r 1787;
besides, those charges were liable to be varied from
year to year, and therefore they ought to be sepa-
rate. All that he should propose to transfer were
under the heads of occasional payments ; they were
capable of being inc:eased or diminished, and
amounted to about 135,01(.1. They consisted partly
of the expences of printing, stationary, salaries to
certain officers of Parlia:neat, expellees of police,
law expences, payments to shei as on the convidioa
felons, the sums granted to French refugees,
ate. Thete were other expenses forming a part of
this sum, under beads of a political nature, of which
no estimate could have been made ; these com-
prehended secret service money, amounting now to
25,0001. extra salaries far ministers sent abroad on
particular missions, anti various contingencies in the
Secretary of State's, office. The whole of these
amounted to one hundred and thirty-five thousaud
pounds. On this point he would not. however,
make any motion at present. The only other pro-
posal he had to make was a positive grant of
some augmentation to the civil list revenue, the chief
head of expence in which related to tradesmen's
bills, which had considerably increased of late
years ; and this was a circumstance. easily to
be a•:tenunted for by all .those who iiad experi-
enced the increased expences in their own fa-
milies ' • that b. inns the necessary consequence
of the rise of every article of life since the
estimate in Ur, there was an increase of
from 40 to (0 per cent. in the price of every
neee-. ary of life, and of all domestic expences
Every body Mast therefore f..el an anxious desire to
p:ovide for those accessary espences unavoidably
incurred by the Royal Family; and it would be
seen they were not more than the natural and pro-
gressive rise of every thing had occasioned. But
the other increase of expences grew out of the ne-
cessity of the times ; out of the ordinary state of
human affairs; and those political events which no
human power could controul. I be only head of
expense, on which any diminution had taken place,
was that of pensions, because that was the only one in
which a disereti..n could have been exercised.—
In the estimate of 1117, the sum of 9%0001. was
allotted for pensions; and those were now less by
the sum of 10,0ioil. The whole of this was cer-
tainly a small sum to limit the Royal Bounty to t
and lie should much rather encrease, than nartru
it. H. )14 ever, in the pressure of the present timi
be would nut propose any extension of that sea. .
but 6: it at 92,0001. the same as fixed in 170
That would he lii,vool. snore than it now blood. 'IOC

excess under the head of Foreign Ministers, was
8,0001. ; and the only other, ?is which there was an
increase beyond the estimate of 1787, related to
the immediate expences of the Royal Family.—
The sum of 58,0001. had at that time been granted
to Her Maj?sty, to cover the expenses attending the
female bratich:s of the Royal Family. To this
sum he should now propose an increase. Parlia-
ment had several years fixed the sum of 60001. for
each of the Princesses. Ile should new propose an
addition of 4000. for each. The whole of this ad-
ditional sum then would be 20,0001. Who% the in-
creased expellees under these last-mentioned heads
were carried to the account of the Civil List,
they made the whole amount to 975,0001. The
amount, according the est i mate, was 92 !MOM. having
a deficiency of 54,0001. to be provided for. The
addition then he should now propose to vote
would be the sum of 60,0001. a year, besides the sum
he had already stated for the discharge of the debt
now existing. He then concluded with moving
his first Resolution—"!'hat a suet not exceeding
60,0001. be added to Ilis Majesty's Civil List Re-
venue."

Mr. BANKS said, that in delivering his senti-
ments on the present question, he did nut mean to
cast the smallest reflation, either on the present Ad-
ministration or the last ; but it became the House to
look with an eye of extreme jealousy in times like
the present, whenever they were called tipna for a
grant of the public money. Two years ago he had un-
derstood it to be intention of the then Admisistration,
to fix the expenditure at a certain sum, and they had
professed a determination to prevent a similar ac-
cumulation in future. lie was, however, sorry to
observe, they had neglected and disregarded punc-
tuality in the payments of the different classes.
In the course of the last sixteen years, ending in
1802, the debt was no more than 80,4001. ; hut in
the two years and a half since that period, Cie
average has more than trebled, being now t:e7,oonl.
which lie supposed to he owing to an understood
Parliamentary regulaiion, which had been departed
from since 1802. Ile found fault with the obscurity
of the different items in the account of sum? paid to
foreign Ministers, which he had compared; and yet
there was no account, that he could intelligibly make
nut, of what these sums are charged under the
head of extra extract' canaries, which be wa► afraid
might tend as a cloak and cover to expences
of a different kind. Ile then adverted to the
very great increase which had taken place in
the expences of the board of works t the average
in the last two years ; he said, was 86,0001. a year.
t le acknowledged the,ex pences of building were much
incrietssed of late years, but still the governmen• ought
to endeavour to put some limit to these expences,
and nt.t suffer liens to go on to such an cry irmous
extent as they had lately done. There was another
article to which he must allude, and that was the
payment of ministers at foreign courts on signing
treaties and conventions, which was stated at
13,0001. He 'anew of no treaties or conventions
that had been signed within the last two years, and
wa.. therefore at a loss how this account coall be
swelled oat sn much. The pensions to late minis-
ters at foreign courts were swelled, he said, from
92,0001. to 131,0rm1. which seemed also to be
somewhat extraordinary. In the Secretary of ;tate's
Office, there sv:.s also an increase of 77,0011. be-
yond what the expcnce was estimated at in the year
1786. It should be recolleded also, that one of
these Secretaries was an office entirely new ; and
the Government ought to consider, and ;t would be
well for the House to do the same, whether, when
the period of peace shall arrive, it may be necessary
to continue the office of third Secretary of State,
which was aCtuelly abolished by Mr. Burke's Bill,
and has been since then revived. He then adverted
to an article, which he hoped, he said, he should
not have seen again, and that was an advance to one
of the Princes. What he alluded to, was an advance
to the Duke of Clarence of 70001. to be paid again
by instalments, at 7501. a year. He objeCted to
this mode of distributing the money belonging to the
civil list, because so mudh being disposed of to-one
person must fall with peculiar hardship on some
person in another class, who, in all likelihood,
would be obliged to go unpaid, for whatever was
thus advanced out of proportion must be an injury
to others in a different class; besides, lie looked on
it as extremely wrong in another point of view ; be
did not think it was proper that the First Lord of
the Treasury should thus have the Princes of the
Blood looking up to him for assistance. Since this
money had been advanced, there should have been
a year and a half paid of the instalments ; but in
looking over the accounts on the table, there was
no mention of any such having been made, and he
had therefore a right to suppose no such had been
made, and, indeed, he thought it was not much
to he expeded. He thought, however, this mode
of proceeding was trifling with the House and with
the public. If it be necessary that the expences of
these royal personages should be increased, he
would recommend it to the Government to do
it openly, and not in this kind of clandestine man-
ner. No less a sum than 18,0001. had thus
been advanced to these Royal Personages, which he
was very sorry for, as he thought it by no means
right or proper. He observed also, that there was
an advance of a similar nature to Major General
Gardiner, out of his pension. The debt, er sum
advanced was 20001. which was to be repaid by in-
stalments of 3001. a year. In this caw., also, there
were several instalments due, and it did nut appear
t►u any payment had been made. It appeared to
him there was no limit whatever to the principle of
these advances, and, as tar as the praQice goes, he
thought it highlr injurious. He then took notice
of another article on the accounts, which was a do-
ficienci of fees in the department of the Officers of
the 1 reasury, which amounted to upwards of
13,0001. which was matter of surprise to him, and
which. he thought, required explanation to chew
how such deficiencies could really exist. These
were observations which he thought it his duty to
make as a Member of that House, siding for the
h •notir as well as the interest of the country, and
viewing the different items of the public expendi-
me with the jealous eye of a guardian (*the pub-
lic money. the advance to the Duke of Clarence
was the only article to which he should make any
positive objeetion. He could not, however, give
his consent to any permanent provision, as an adli-
rain to the Civil List, till Ministers shall have then a
:hat they were determined to make the estimates
and the expenditure equal. In times like the pre-

sent, wLen the public burdweanhnds:ninlet sopourveoerycceztkiinealri:
and every day becoming snore and more sn,
btheoeunglhartgitinagythereycinivdielcLoroin,us
what extent the pressure may come.
The CHANCELLOR of dies EXCHEOLTR
said, he had listened with the greatest attenzion,
and with no small degree of saris anion, to what had
Glen from his Hon. Friend, who had jest 'at
down, and who had certainly treated die subjedie
a very accurate and parliamentary manner. He
would beg the attention of the Committee to -every
few words he had to offer ia answer to some of the
observations of his Hon. Friend. In stkh a cir-
cumstance as the present question, you must Jo nee
of two things. If the I lati:e cats point out 'es
means of administering the expenditure in time of
war, it would, no doubt, be highly desirable; hut
if that could not be done, it wonicare better to meat
it fairly at once, than to postpone it, and '61,4
suffer a large accumulation of debt to take place in
the Civil List establishment; and he though: it
would be very impolitic to think of saving 50 or
60,0001. a year, when it was well known how in,!elt
the expence of the different articles of provisions,
of all kinds, had increased, and would be a mis.
placed economy to take any thing from thesplcn-
dour of the crown, which was one of the men
essential parts of our glorious constitution at a ti;i!
like the present, when every gentleman must know,
by only adverting to the increased expellees of his
own private household, how very inadequate the
same sum must be to defray the same expenditure
as was fixed so long ago as 1786. The "Luse would,
he was certain, be the more inclined to increase ehe
Civil List, when they called to mind the branches
of the hereditary revenue, which had been given
up by his present Majesty on his first coming to the
throne. They would also recoiled, that His Ma-
jesty had now sat on the throne longer than almost
any other sovereign had done before. That durirg
the whole of that time the hereditary revenue hasibetn
growing up, and eke House should calculate what it
would have amounted to. The House was now called
upon to add 50 or 60,0001. a year, and must recolkel,
that the hereditary revenues would have amounted
to 11 or 1,500,0001. a-year, instead of 900,001.
which is as the sum fixed for the civil list expendi-
ture. His Hon. Fliend, he said, had desired that
every possible setisfedion should be given, that no
increase should in future take place. What, be
asked, had produced the excess ? Not a want of
attention to the interests of the country, or to the
principles of mconosny,but to a change in the circuit-
stteces of the times; far during the first six years aG
tel she passing the Bill, the expenditure was kept
eithin bounds, and it was not from the want of a
sincere desire to keep to the Bill, but to circumstan•
ces which could neither be foreseen or countersued,
that any excess bad arisen. It the House would
look seriously to the eubjed, they would see that ne
preference had been given to any elms, except 'la
first] second, and third, which is the Royal -Family;
the Judges ; and the Foreign Ministers; which, evert
one must see, are such as must be first attended to.
He heartily joined his Hon Friend in the wish, that
some mode could be devised to prevent the future is
crease of the debt; but he thought it was imposible
to say that this would be the fast sum that would
he asked for; but it should not be se, without Par.
liament being advised of it, and knowing from tine
to time how it goes on. In short, he would assure
the House, that every possible means would be
adopted to prevent any future increase of the
debt. He thought a clause mien be framed
in the Bill, providing that an abstrad of the
debt of the Civil List should be made out at
certain periods of the year, and laid before
the House, so that they would continually
have the subject under their eye, and no consider.
able increase could take place without their k:inw.
ledge. The Right Hon. Gentleman then proceed.
ed to take notice of what had fallen from his Hon.
Friend relative to the advance made to the Dlike of
Clarence, which, he said, came under the head of
occasional payments. lie bagged the I louse to re-
coiled that the principle of occ.eaunal payments was
recognised by Mr. Burke's Bill ; and surely, it there
aries an occasion in which any of the Royal Family
should find it necessary to require an advance, Fla
Majesty may have it in his power to make it, and
it may be paid again by instalments, as e: n.
venience may suit, without the Ware reccieng
any injary whatever. This, he would allow,
should be done very sparingly ; but he thought in
many instances, and within a moderate scale, it
was extremely proper. He then adverted to the
article under the head of extra extraordinaries, and
allowed that these ought to be looked to with the
utmost jealousy; but it must be obvious, with regard
to foreign ministers, that they may be obliged to
j
incur expences, which liberality, and even us-
tice, requires they should be left liable to. He
had thus briefly observed upon such parts of
his Honourable friend's speech, as he thought
more particularly required notice, and assuied
his Honourable friend and the House, that he had
no objection to the production of any accounts'
which Call give any further or better explanation 01
any point that may be doubtful in the mind of arif
kn. Gent', man, because he wished to coavires
the House avid the count, y, that this call en I:4
public money .vas the drat of real and mi.., i
able necessity. lie was therefore happy, flat
this discussion had taken plisse, and very much
obliged to his Lion. Fliend, for having
breoghtit
on, and for the very acute and judicious manner at
which he had touched upon the several points to
which he had referred, as doubtful or objedion ible.
He allowed the expences of the Board of Works hal
indeed been very great, but he believed no wore
than what was absolutely necessary, and they had
been greatly increased by the necessity of altering
and repairing many parts of His Majesty's difkrera
palaces, in order to accommodate and proside
suitable apartments fur the different branches o:
the Royal Family.
Mr. BANK' explained.
Mr. AI)DINGTON said, that after what
been so ably stated by the Right Hon. Genthn.4l.
It would be necessary for him to trouble the l our
mitten with only a very few words. 'The 40,0tt .-
which had been alluded to, had beeit applied lie
special purposes. He thought the House would let,
the importance of paying-liberally, Gentlemen ?'
talents, family, and education, in foreign cFplornauc
situations, in which the best and most essential acre
rests of the country are so deeply concerned.

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ocument, he said, would be laid before the House,
accounting for the expenditure of W,OOOL for spes
cial services. In Mr. Burke's Bill, it is provided,
thAt a book should he kept at the Treasury, contain-
ing an account of the particular appropriation of
money. for special s^rvices, which should be laid
before either House of Parliament, uii a motion for
that purpose. In tin prese•,t case, as no order had
been made i)y the i louse, the gross sum only was
steed. With respell to the advance made to the
Dfie of Clarence, he could assure the House he knew
c nigh of the circumstance, to he convinced that it
; oerfealy right. The Right Hon Gent. (Mr. Batiks)
LI i said he wished not to have any permanent
ch tree. In in& there is none, hut as expenses are
unavoidable, it remaine f with the House to decide,
whether they will not grant what is necessary for
the splendour and dignity of the Crown. Every
Gentleman must know bow great have been the ad-
ditional •honselsould expenses. It must certainly
be a Matter of regret to the House, that such circum-
s, mos have occurred, bUt he thought it rather a
roarer of wonder tha: so numerous a family should
I. tife been supported with so little expense, great as
tf.: sum in itself :Apptared to be. Under such cir-
cumstances, he stwou;d conclude with entertaining a
hope. that the House would accede to the motion.
!)r. LAURENCE intimated the necessity there
for s Bill, that would effedually limit the ex-
peitli.ure of the public money, and in a speech of
s ne l-rigth argued against want of economy, at a
period inauspicious to the pecuniary interests of the
country.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETI' thought the Civil
List, as it stood, at present sufficient, if applied with
propriety and economy. He was not an enemy to
taxes in general. It was their misapplication of which
be complained. Taxes might he as beneficial as the
mists absorbed by the sun, which fall in refreshing
dews. Conceiving the resolution prejudicial to the
intents of the country, he should vote against it.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT differed from the non.
Brunet in many parts of his speech. He thought
that en oeriod, however embarrassed, should in the
least tiegee interfere with the splendour of the Mo-
na: !• and Royll
Mr. FULLER spoke in favour of the resolution,
wilier was then pin and agreed to.
`eeeral other Resoluti ins were then moved by
Mr. Dic xisso., to which the House agreed, and the
report was ordered to be received to-morrow.
The Irish Defence Bill wa, ?" sd a 2d time, and
ordered to be committed to-morrow.

The House having resolved itself into a Com-
xrittee of Ways and Means;
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
gave notice of his intention to ;4.opose an additional
duty on Stamps; and observed this proposition
should be printed for the inspedion of the House:
the Members would then he able to examine it mi-
nutely, and he should be happy to receive any in-
formation on the subj:S.
Mr.-ADDINGTON concurred with the Right
Homiarable Gentleman in thinking the plAn would
be beneficial.

The Resolutions were agreed to, and the Report
ordered to be received tomorrow.

The Irish Revenue Regulation Bill was ordered
to be committed on Wednesday.
L Kilwarden's Annuity BM was read second
time, and .)rdered to be ccinutittad to-morrow.

Adirirned at ten o'clock.

Txs BRIMS Peed cc :7r InOtillig at 5 O'clock,
except upon ao:nc ex:ran:44laq occaeion, and even then it
pilutehed metier than civ other Morning Pima

TILE 13 iIITISII PRESS.

LONDON,
TUESDAY, JUL• 9.

In the Commi:ve of Supply last night in the
lionseof Commons, Mr. Pure proposed an sag-
men ation of 60,0001. annually to the Civil List.
'This brought on a canversatiou Which will be found
interesting.

Sunday evening, aboat six o'clock, His Marts-
Tv, the D,.kc of Cast se tnoz, and Princess ASC..;
LI A, took an airing on horseback through Putney.
Her MAJzsry and the other Pat a c rafts followed,
in two open carriages ; the ROYAL PASTY returned
about eight o'closk.
YesterJay morning, soon after breakfast, Their
MAJZST I ES and the Peorcesszi, accompanied by the
Dukes of KENT and CurtataiAND, walked in Kew
Gardens.
A Common Hall was held yesterday, at Guildhall,
to elan two Sheriff's for the City of London, and
County of Middlesex, in the room of 'Viso se AS G a
YITH, Esq. who has fined to be excused serving the
said office; and Jamas Er &MAIM Lott NIALSON,
Esq. who has refused to give• bond to take upon him
the sai• office, when JUlin LAGILM LA MOTT,"
Esq. Citizen and Wh,elwrircht ; and JAMAS OLDA
mast OLDHAM, Esq. Citizen and N eed!emaket, were
xi-1 in the room of the said TUOSIAS GIOYSITSI.
ailt.l.lA NES Ertilt 41 SCALaUN, Esq.
The Promgation of Parliament is fixed fbr this
day month, unless som:thing new and extraordinary
chaff happen.
A letter from Ostend, dated June 30, says--
4' Nothing new has transpired since my last, only
that we are given to understand that the enomy are
Certainly ready, and mean to make their grand at-
tempt in the course ofnext month. It would appear
that they have got at Ostend all the force they wish
to have in that quarter, as the last easterly winds
brought nothing along shore."
Lieutenant General Vvsz, we understand, suc-
ceeds Lieutenant-General Lord NI VLOR AVE in the
command of the Eastern-DistriA ; Major-General
Niers has received orders to take the command of
brigade in London, and will be succeeded at Hull
by Major-Ozneral Fe ao vs° le.
Mr. J onto Cosmos, of Lisieard, is appointed
t)tputy Receiver General of the Duchy of Cornwall.
LAO' ARRASOLMLISTS.—.II4r. SUTTON, the pre-
s.nt Solicitor-General to be chief Justice of Chester ;
Mr. DALLAS to be Solicitor-Geleral ; and Mr.
WATSON, Lieutenant-Colanel of the Bloomsbury.
to be Judge Advocate G:neral, vice Sit Cuaasz,
Moms", who Is to be created a Pees.