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dale irrirsitachment ? It had been strongly
fv,,yrd by Gentlemen that it WAS. Ile should,. how.
flee, ts.• RI.tJ to know this—how do the Hon. Gen-
s • in their information ? There is but one
t`imen dire at such klowledge, and
ti
4, is by their votes. If that be resorted is
4; the pineal lease. it will he fested that the
weieeley were against the impeachment, and in
criminal prosecution. Gentlemen
14tvrearre
ed the
Parliamentary ground ; what is this ?,i
low
aoesit enable them to form a judgment as to tee n-
' ns and determinations of others? There are
it:Questions, which cannot he answered, if put
is such a way, that you must say yes or no to them.
Thee s si "I he, is a question of two parts ; fest,
v-hether it should be a criminal prosecution or not ?
Id, secondly, how it was to be carried on ? Sup.
reee- you. pin the general question, Does the Noble
, ?
J deserve to be impeacheeSome will say,
yes; some seme will say, no. Indeed, they might
rdivided into four classes, . and some would
e for one mode, some for another, some for none
„t all. Ist. Ought there to be a criminal prose-
cution? eelly. Ought it to he by impeachment ?
Ought it to be by information ? atlas'. He
"el; to be prosecuted at all events. There would
d ,eueeess be found persons who would vote for one
r ether of all those preposition, ; end yet how is
any ma' to form a judgment for which of them
there is an aftual majority, if there be no confine-
ment in terms, mid their opinions are net Wren on
same one plain, obvious, specific point. In the
preen ,
s the House has emphatically and distind-
•tease
sed, not only that there shell be a criminal prese-
esetioe, but that such prosecution shall be by inf orn-
a:,on. frost who voted that the words do not stand
part of his Hon. Frend's motion did not vote for the
main question. The House having decided by a
rnajerity in favour of the amendment, the resolution
must stand ; because all you can infer, with regard ,
to these who were in favour of the impeachment, is,
that they voted for the criminal prosecution in pre-
ference to no prosecution at *IL He deprecated
th- Lice of the Houk attempting to :ewe their own
swoon decisien, in conseqeenre of a motion made
on such a notice, not given more than twenty-four
hews previous to making it, when a great many
Memhers who voted for the prosecution were g
out of town, and after the lapse of a fortnight since
the resolution was passed. He thought such a pro.
eeeling would isedoed be mon.trous. He begged the
is would recolteet alsonhat they could not adopt
os h.t measure as that of agreeing to the present :no-
tiosi witbmn (seising a most dangerous precedent,
which went to no less than thisnhat the very same pee-
wits who bring is forward, may, within the :;race of
a fortnight, sr ;whirr the end of hie present sessions
ceme to tie House with a sinelar motion, to reverse
th ssiole of the pc sceedings which have token
place relative to the NolsW Viscount ie qu scion.
He t'insigho and hoped, the lieu... would not emin•
t. mace rat • retold elous a pr rocs:P.l're; t wee nor:tali
necessary the !louse s!-,,oricl. *1 all cases. aft with
caeriers, And never cts Any tiring deliberately wrung.
Then chanisner. and the eueout and dignity of the
Howes requited that when a resolution had pes•ed,
afor etch ;;rave, uterus. and serious, disclose n, a.
had for tw • d.,ys reit. .1 piece on this stibj ..t. it
stsup'.‘t sr!, he ligegliter bet- uterine or rescieded.--- •
lie xpressed a doubt eesether the crane of Vis-
coin: Melvilie setts such .as so come withiu
liar scope of an ionpeatilment,_ as the cisme of
a yawner, and not a state cr.me It was
merely the breech of she Aeit of Perliement.--
Veceere Melville had, however, from his own
blamable conduct, put himself into a stese of sus-
picieti. He, from the same conduct, a:so put tee
House into a state or ; and it bete red the
House perliculaily to 100‘ t') their character, and
ant give the people reason to think them light and
capricious in their aniduct, by voting gravely and
seriously on one night for a criminal prosecution.
and in sus Short a time afterwards reseisolieg that
resolution in Emcee of anther which had been pro-
pesed to them before and negatived by a major ity.
For these reasi,ns he found himself compelled to
give his d cided Opp° ition to the present motion."
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQ_IJER
spoke to the following purport *4 In what have
to say, Sir. on the present question, I shell dentin the
House but very shortly; stn.l Lrist at the present
so.unent man pan cularly, in order or remove an
error into which most of the lion. Gentlemen who
bevespokra have enleavoured to mislead the House,
viz. a repposition that there is something in the
etude' of bzieging forward this Motion which ought
to prevent the House from cooling to a decision. ,
In order to chew the fallacy of this reasoning, I
will only beg leave to state the matter wetly as all
the ditletent circumstances took place. On Wed.
nescley, the llth of the netnth, the debate first com-
menced, and on the morning of Thursday, the I eth,
the !louse first came to a decision. On Thursday,
tie House did not sit, and on the Tuesday or Wed-
nesday following, the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Bne.if) gave notice, diet is was his intention to make
a Motion relative to leaving Mr. Jellicoe's balances
out of the crimi al prosecution voted to be instituted
ageinst Lord Viscount Melville. The Right Hon.
Gentlemen would have brought it forward at that
time, but I expressly told him, that the mote I had
moldered that business, the more perfeelly and
firmly was I convinced that the mode of Impeach-
Impeach-
mentwas far more consonant to the principles of
Justice—better suited to the rank and circum-
stances of the Noble Lord, and its every respeft
better adapted for furthering and else ting the views
of this House in the punishment they wished to
1014 on him. Some conversation afterwards tcok
place, as to the time when the Right lion. Gentle-
man would bring forward his Motion ; and I perti-
elslsirly advised him to defer it, in order that time
might be given toeconsider jut thee on the business.
The Right I lon. Gent. said, that what he had to move
Wilt a mere simple point of leaving out Mr Jellicoe's
buaisess from the proceeding ordered. I objected,
however, to its being then moved, and stated fully
and precisely that I was more and more convinced
tee impeachment would be the more proper mode to
fadutsne ; and as I did net think that a real majority
voted for the measure of a criminal informa-
tion, I hoped the House would have a farther op-
portunity of revising that declaims, and I then look-
ed on it, that what I said was a plain intimation of
my iniesition to bring forward the question. This
is the sixth day since the notice was given, and ca-
t ti dy the lionouranle Gentlemen have no reason
to conialeia of the time in which I gave it.

It was not •
gine when it was thoufht there
would be a thus House, it was when a motion of
the greatest importance was before the Houk, and
when there was as numerous an attendance as any
we have had during the session. Such was the na-
ture of the notice ; and, if you take it merely in
the form in which it *as given last nio;ht, you
mos: certainly do not argue fairly. Sir, on the
ao:)jel of notices, we have Lob some instances
during the present Session, when motion, have
been brought forward, without any notice at
all. I allude particularly to that of the Honourable
Gentleman opposite (Mr. Whitbread), oho, after
giving notice of a Motion for a civil stiit against
Viscount Melville, afterwards brought forward a
Mot:on for a Criminal prosecution, without any no-
tice at all. Ido not mean, Sir, to find fault with
Gentlemen for having done so; but I must be al.
lowed to express my surprise, that so much stress
should be laid on the present Motion being brought
forward under circumstances exactly similar. The
next point, Sir, for which the lion. Gentlemen
contend is, that it is not right to rescind the resolu-
tion this Session. Now, really, Sir, this is most
extraordinary argument. What is the resolution?
Why, it is one to rescind another resolution which
has already periormed tilt same operation in the
course of the present Session. Did no: this very
resolution rescind the resolution for the civil suit,
and resolve to commence the criminal one Cer-
tainty it did-rand when I hear this mode of Argo..
ment resorted to, I confess I cannot but express my
surprise. I have heard it has been insinuated, or
inferred, that that is a stratagem to defeat their
• intentions of inftiding a punishment on Viscount
Melville. How is this to be done ? Where
is the appearance of such a stratagem i The
Honoutabie Gentlemen should consider th it this
measure is only to substitute another resolution
in the place of that which is rescind, d. And
what kind of proceeding is it that is m.an. to be
adopted ? Sir, the very proceeding 'Mich a
few days berme they th night the most proper ;
which they themselves originally propo•ed; and
which if they hid carried, the other would
have had existence. If their own oYin,ons are not
altered since, they cannot, with the smallest de7-..e
of propriety, charge us with unfairness. I under-
stand some insinuations have been thrown out
that this chan'e is attempted in order to gratify
the feelings ci Viscouot ffelville. I know of no
such cease. But, supposing it sbroull he more con-
sonant to the feelings of Viscount Melvill oppos-
ing it ehoeild he a mode of pew:tasting more ne 4, !
adapted to the privileges of tne Peer .ge, arid bet-
ter suited• to his rails and circonotances its life,
stoe.ly these can oe n, objections in Ma minds of
reasce.ahle men, it toe business cau be As ef-
fected wit coot erecting one injastice. I will not
suppose the Hoe. Geodesnen can any of them ever
°Nei to it on those particular {rounds. As to the
coestion of why Use irapeadiment is preferable to
the mode of criminal proseewion I have no dote'.:,
th..t it you were to poll the wh•die Howe, they would •
by an im,nonse majority think it preferable. The
Noble Lord opp.rsite ( L rrd II Petty) has this
niggle admitted. that he originally thought that
mode preferable : An 1 tivt he gill coma's:wed to
d•a so. If that he realy the case, be surely
will not insist on the mere point of form, that
the more oojeelionable mode should be Fu-
me i, in exclusi rat of that which is mare proper.
If, according to the arguments chi' have formerly
used on the subject. they wee that the impeach-
ment is m..re constitutional; it theca agree that it
is better adapted to the rank and eh:trader of the
party ;if they agree that it is mare likely to further
and promote the ends and interests of public juice ;
then certainly the mere matter of form ongbt trot
for a moment to impede so many important and
desireable purposes. A Right lion. I.entlernan op-
posite has expressed a cb‘ubt whether the crime was
of that nature as to warrant the proceeding by im-
peachment, and considered it upon the nice dis-
nation of its being the crime of the Statesman,
and not a State come; I think, Sir, however,
that it you take the nature of the tratisetion in
Its full extent, the Right Honourable Gentle-
man's doubts will cease. If we take only the
mere breaking of the Ad of Parliament by itself, it
would not be sufficient; but if we take the other
part of the charge, viz, that Viscount Melville used
the public money, not only it breach of the Aft of
Parliament, but that he used it for certain secret
services, which he won't disclose, then it may be
said to be a state crime, and will certainly come
within the scope of Impeachment. I can see no
reason, Sir, why the House should hesitate to re-
scind this resolution any more than it has &he
others. I have already shewn that other resolu-
tions have been rescinded in the course of the
present Session; and, therefore, those arguments
that have been urged against it, on that score,
are removed and done away. An argument has
been used, Sir. in favour of the criminal prose-
cution in preference to the impeachment, which I
cannot allow to have the weight that seems to be at-
tached to it in the minds of Gentlemen ; and that is
the quickening of the proceeding its point of time.
But I can by no means agree to the difference that
is assumed by Hon Gentlemen. In the case of my
Lord Halifax, I believe the time between the first
commencement of the prosecution, and the day of
trial, was not less than two years and a half.—
I have no doubt, sir, but by the aarvity and
industry of my Right Hos:honourable Friend (the
Attorney-Geoeral), matt, m:ty he so prepared, as
that Viscount Melville may take his trial early in the
meeting of Parliament, next Session, which will he
nearly as soon as could be done by the other mode
of procedure. There has, however, been made
another objetion to the impeachment, and that is
the great length of time which that against Mr.
Hastings took up ; but really, Sir, it is almost im.
possible to suppose there can be any similarity be-
tween them in point of duration. When we retied on
the immense mass of evidence there was to wade
through in Mr. Hastings's ; that evidence to be
colleted in, and brought from one of the most distant
parts of the world; wheti we recollect the vast
complication of charges. and all the other difticuh
circumstances attending that Impeachment, it is
scarcely in the nature of things, that the Impeach-
ment of Viscount Melville can bear any kind of
semblance. However. Sir, I would caution the
Hon. Gentlemen bow they push that argument too
far, because it pr to this, that the House ought
moves aril to posood by way 1 Impeachment I

.+. ..•11,,..m.

a doctrine Which is certainly by no means in favour
of the constitution. It is one which I fed lem not
likely to acquiesce in, and which I hope and trust
the House will be equally jealous of encouraging.
If the whole of the long and complicated accootes
relative to this transaction are to be gone into, I
Hove. Sir, there would be great doubt whether there
would,in the common course of justice, be time staffs-
eerie toget throughtheseand in tleit cese just icec iul.!
net be obtained. If, on the conoery, teere is '
chance of its bring such as may aetualle be fini
in a day, that is an adietionel ie-gemeit is favour
of the Impeachment, and does away ali those whir'.
are raised to excee such violent apprehensions of tee
alleged length, tile harressment, and the oppression
of an Impeachment. Und3r ail these circumstance:,
Sir, considering that what h proposed is not intend-
ed to defeat the stihstential re. 'lotion of the House,
but only to adopt what those who opposed it so very
lately, thought the most proper and eligible mode
of proceeding, I shall certainly give my vote foe
the motion nt my Hon. arid Learned Friend."
Mr. WHITBREAD said, that it the Right ! lon
Gentleman who spoke last had thus streuueusly ex-
erted Isis eloquence, and ma le the sp.ech he h id
just concluded in favour of impeachment; or if he
had voted thr it on a former night. there would have
been no necessity for his then taking up the time of
the House in support of the consistency of their con-
, duel; nor would ,the Right Hon. Gent. have been
reduced to the subterfuges he had this night been ob-
liged to resort to. He, tor one, was willing to forego
the impeachment, which he thought the more consti-
tutional mode of the two, in order to preserve the
consistency and charater of the House, in which
was implicated the safety of Parliament, and, in
that, the safety of the people. He said, that from
the commenceinent of this business, he, and his Hon.
Friends, had uniformly argued in favour of the im-
peechmeet. The Right Hon. Gentleman, as well
as the II in. and Learned Gentleman who brought
forward this Motion, had both spoken against all cri-
minal prosecution whatsoever. The present Treasurer
if the Navy heal spoken in a very en;mated meaner
in favour of the impeachment, and said, he would
prefer their cruelty to the mercy of the Amendment,
and now they were desirous of involv ee the whole
I louse in their inconsistencies. The Right Hon.
G mt.( \lr. Pitt) was forewarned he would be left
in a minority ; bat he despised the prediction
not recolletting the circumstance of his own House
'wing divided against itself—that is —his owe Cabi-
net. The Right lion. Gentleman came silo s:1 to
the vote, it was then too late to recede, and he must
now abide by his condua. The House was attempt-
ed to be surprised by the metion of that night. Tile
itt. Lion Gent. had asked him to ley his hand on
his heart and say, whether he did rot believe that
the Right Hon. Gentleman preferred the it/setae:l-
- ? He 'would lay his hand on his heart (which
he did), and say lie believed he did prefer the ies-
peechment, but that lie wanted. to cat .v it
with a high hand, and thought he should be
able to get rid of all Lied of prosecusioa what-
evcr, and tberefire voted as he had s:one.—
It has beet, said is what harm will this leach?—
Viscount Melville will be prosecuted still. lie
wnele ask the Hon. Meta's. r (Mr. Pin), whether
those who helJ this leaguege, do not think that
Viscount Melville ought net to be tried at all ? The
very ord:r in question Was urged as a precedent of
iesciading a resolution of the House, the origi-
nal vote being for a civil process ; but, the cases,
he col:ended, were very diderent; the criminal pro•
secutien having been adopted in consequence of new
fads which came out subsequent to toe vote for a
civil suit. The argument of surprise had no weight.
Viscount Melville made no such olijeaiiin. On the
contrary, in his speech upon the Baur of that House,
he referred :o the proceeding, and actually preferred
&criminal prosecution. He would really wish to con-
sult his Lordship's feelings in the choice of the par-
ticular course; but it was now out of his power. It
was said, that to give up Parliementary Impeach-
ment, would be to give up one of the greatest rights
of the Constitution. He would not give it up; and
therefore it was that he complained so much of those
who opposed the mot ion far that process. He adicitt•
ed great delay in the case of Mr. Hastings, but that
was no reason for exagg rating al the ceeeetiens to
a criminal prosecution, and dwelling upon the case
of Lord Halifax, as having occupied two years and
a half. The indiansent might he framed before the
recess, and the business put in train. We were told
that there was nothing in the way in the present case
but a mere point of form. That obstacle, however,
was a vote of the House, and to rescind it would form
a dangerous precedent. Difficulties upon the part
of the Attorney General have been stated much to the
surprise of the House and of the public. O:her
great legal charaeters could see nothing of the kind:
but it the Attorney General found difficulties where
such men could discover none, in a great national
case like the present, in the name of God, let the
difficulties be removed by the removal of the person
from uJice—(4 hosier:, " hear, hear.") Yes, lie
was sure the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman
would, not stand in the way of se great a national
benefit. That Gentleman, however, had said,
that Viscount Melville must be convicted upon trial;
a pretty clear proof that he was aware he could
prosecute his Lordship with effect. He would not
throw a slur upon the Attoraey General, the Court,
and the Jury, by supposing the contrary ; and had
the proceeding by criminal prosecution infringed
the privileges of the Lords, they would no doubt
have complained of it. It was objected that it did
not appear at what time Lord Melville received tile
10.0001. for which he refused to account ; but he re-
tained it after the resolution of the House of Com-
mons; and the Attorney General surely must know
how to shape the information to meet that charge.
Viscount Melville, he was sure, would have sule.
cient protection in the Court of King's Bench; if
he did not think so he would not. The present mo-
tion was recommended as inducing that delay
necessary to allay the public indignation ; but
he did not think it so great as to preclude
an impartial trial, while he leered it might
have many bad effeets, particularly that of bemm•
ing indifferent on the public mind. It was said, that
the Minister WAS placed in a dilemma, by the 43
Members, who are the supporters of one of the Ca-
binet Ministers, voting against him; but the Cabe
net differences were not to be settled in that House.
The 43 Members alluded to had, however, aged
very eoesieteady, and should have his vo:e.—
It was a cations circurasteece iLebei.b..sAneeeei

Minister, wl.o turned out the last, and since Ohba,
with him; that w!vthir it was an addition
cihty to st:ength, or of imbecility to imbewili,. set
the ti,i;on or two bullrishes, he • Id not stand oda-
out him. If, however, we were 1.. have All impeach-
ment, re si:ould be gl id to know who were to ba the
man igen? Were they to be those who 1.e./1M to de.
feat all prosectitien, or s.iose rigtea.:y moved
for Intiseachment ;or was it to be a mixed bu,iens,
all which a few of the latter, •
Apparent riff narrow,
were to gee. al, appearance to eie majority, who
only age! from compulsion? Lot wi.at would, how-
ever, be the writ, and should one of them, in
whoever ,-.ampany he should be place.!, he ik
use ever: Grin to brin 7, the matter to a convict.
issue; aii• tra;ted that there would be a call at
the House, as proposed by his Hon. Fr;end,
General LENNOX ceneeivel that Lord Mel-
ville would be very improperly brongbt to trial bee
fore a Jury df Westrniieter. From -he si:uation la
which His Majesty ha,l placed him, ea had a right,
according to Magna Cliarro, he It right to be
tried by his Peer., at the proseciition ,f the Horne
of Commons. It was right that the limy! sae n!J be
always able to carry its complaint against aM ni ear, •
whom it supposed to have aged incorrediv, before
the highest tribunal in the co +wry. As t' e At.
torney Genero!, with.lot attaching any ..lame, Of
throwing• any reffeetion repo% his conduB, he neat
he naturally anti ius to save a Member of ea s/mi-
nistration of which he was himself a par- Upon
these grounds, he moat vote for an impeachment.
The AfTOIINEY GENEitA L did not con.
sider the allusions made to himself as fiaterrog to
him or implying censure. The Attorney Ocarral,
at an individual, coul 1 n tt be in cootie mplari in in a
ca,e of such magnitude. The idea of his integrity
depended much upor. the nonce and circum-
stances of the times, and we hid raised for our-
selves 'n the administration of justice so high a
charafter tor inter icy ; he did not t: irk it ought
to be rsked in a prosecution that might fail.—
He had certainly sad thot to stud Viscount
Mel-
ville to trial, was to send him to certain convietion ;
but he meant the conviCtion of I,:gal guilt, in con-
niving at Mr. t'rotter's using the public money for
Private profit. Of that he had legal evidence in
ViSCO9tit hlelvilie's admissions before the Cum.
rs ssir'nen of Naval Inquiry. It tat then were
ascertained to he the oily point, there w mid
be no difficulty in the CAW; but, if the. Gen-
tlemen opposite did not exp.:a semet.hiag more
might be proved, he appealed to thin whether
they might not pn:sibl,,t coacrive that Vi.colint
Melville had been alre itiy sullic;ently p nnishe i ?--es
His difficulties did not respell the bringing of
count Melville to cneviaion. He did not want ad-
vice as to Os • lee I mode. tie only orear-d tp
know the points ne wiii:h :or, was to prosecute, and
not in what* i..anner. Hon. and beamed Gen-
tleman (Mr. Bond) thought that Mr. Jellkn's case
sl.ould be left amt of the prosecution. There may
be others, a nich, in the rernion of the I-I use
ought to be omitted. He had abet, asked 'wile.
ther he should proceed atvainst Mr. Trivet:: and
twigs acidosis, against Women Mete Me If or' ivies-
the, he might call a Member of :hat H n,e to
prove the words spoken by Viscount Melville upon
its floor? a step. which, he fared, he tou•J not
take, without permission of the House. fh. se
were not legal points. involving legal forms ; and
he !toped be might solicit the wishes ef the H
uuon them. If he were precluded from any of
those sources of evidence, it might be difficult to
prove with effed against Lord Viscount Melville.
A difficulty would also occur, in laying the
rears. He could not proceed in Middles** fir an
offence committed in the cite of London. Thu. if he
should lay the to the Moo it. in Middlesex,
and it should appear up es trial that the mis-
application of it by his Lerdship was at the Bank, in
the city of London, he must fail in the prosecution.
Gentlemen might think this all plain sailing, tot
the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. ‘VhitbreaJ) had not
beat his accurate mind to these nice points, or he
would not have spoken with so much confidence.—
These difficulties, par:icalarly that of the ve,ries
would not occur in an Imrachment, which would
be drawn more loosely. It was not a light mat-
ter to fail in a prosecution of that kind ; and
should it be finally would certainly
surround himself with all prosi'u!e care and legal
assistance; but still he must sty, that a mere
menosyllaiile, and things which the HOMO would
think ridiculous, might defeat it. The case of
Lord Halifax WAS a solitary instance, and ought
not to be drawn into precedent ; his Lordship, as
Auditor of the Exchequer, being at tl,e time an
officer of die court in which he was tried. At, to
the management et :he impeachment, he owned, for
oar, he thought th :go i 1 faith of the bus;ness would
be preserved, by putting the lion. Metuber (Mr.
Whitbread) and bin Friends in she same Oa .e in
which they would have been, had their ON igitisi mo-
tion for an impeachment been carried, sad he would
leave them to frame the c..arge, and have the entire
management of it.
Mr. FOX—" Aftet the able rn mner in which the
question has been argued by my Hon. Friend, I do
not think it necessary to enter into it at great length;
I think, Sir, that it is a que-tion. many vi ors, of
as great importance as ever came be.ore the Holm.
Upon the points of it upon which 1 mean to touch
I shall begin with the siihje.ft of notice. I think it
a question that required notice. but I think alsr,
that it would be as well. perhaps better, that there
had been nu notice at all than Lint given yest rd iv.
And that any notice at all has b:eii given, I can
only attribute to a consciousness titptas attempt was
to be made to carry a poi: t, se hla repaired notice,
while it was resolved to give no notice, from which
any advantage could possibly be derived.
The Honourahle Gentleman (Mr. Pitt), in his
enumeration of the proceedings in this case, is eery
minute in dates. It looks as it, finding that fe was
all wrong, a discovery which he must have made
the moment he awoke the nen mornings afar he
re.isted the Motion ot my Hon. Friend—(Mr. Wes,
bread's siisesen lir ea Lapeer intesill —be fah an musks.
ty to re,fair the error, and that not a momen- nee"
to be lost. From his speech, therefore. one ses:uld
infer that he has thought ft necessary to spec?ue foe
t• a delay ; but. however that may stews It I. not
really the fait; for a whole week',rellenion has
heen necessary for him to find out that the pie
ing adopted is unconstiiutemal, eel
_Arlangero as