The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1822-06-14 00:00:00

his dues which could only be drawn by rliotrest; but to give more for land than it wv ihtlaUlt ;
'•pn his income woo made up from small contr4isire seeffied.-to have -forgotten that :115er5r-
.....• _ ir;eh ha moot akaiiiionowd letiveltisoon faintly state of colbbinition among the thine
...,,,,,..4,oftsm,„ ... . .
-. tu. ..••••••$.O. 'Of b.% egebol. strangers, which led to the emote r -
does. Time. ~.......lio .:, .
I •;,. N.. "1111 • "
111 contact with the most indigeot psi. ~t liar pope- sat' ..,,,,....... 3.
lotion, in a state of m entire exhaustion, but inmost ISl.ouglit forward the proposal more uuder ! '
crises those from 193.9111. he tlementied ,his does were, ticto,,that the krises rasielobir
.e• framed as
'ritairotl rr; persuasion, and one directly id '-- to his iliiird in the way of ri more general meo
elAinse. To remedy this main evil, lie proposed to there were caries in which they might In
Carl in a Bill to errOht Jke;.,.il,c:lVOr'ltll'.fitetit.rt , .feet;
.arottf tine Blll.were earned what
lease of tithes for 41 ours. tits second propcetition thereof the Government
,striding for*.
*pod. be to eireble theincumbent'in enter into It . pose a mare general measure ? He war ,
lessee with the ProPriefot of the l'and ; sod thusthey :
.tliey never would ; rend therefore theHor
would get rid of the two chief difficulties. Ouriog right to expect that aortuessure proposed
the,period Of the lease there would be no difficulty !Should •be one, not of *weirdos/sit in the ore-
in collecting the tiihei, anti the composition being • made degree, but of general and extensive 'tumu-
li sod and certain. lhe'eiPetiees to be paid by the lc- neat suivantage. The ;Right Hou. Gem. had sailr
ostler of the bold viottltf xl.O he Matter of certainty Oatmany difficulties stood ill it), way alloy general
to he previously ascertained. He might he told oiesiure of comintitotion ; but .that those difficed-
that leasing tithes was already in operation ;' but brie were, he hail not attempted to sheer. There
hts. Bill enlarged the power of the incumbent, Se were,tin getitions egsiost It from either lay-iropro-
as to make tne 'bargain equally 'advantageous and priotors or clergymen.; but lie (Sir H. l'irsiell) be-
timdinu for the whole period comprised in the lease. liefred thet, in posit of fact, the greet body of the
Vs- prevent any danger to the church properly, clergy in Ireland were in favour apf such is mea-
Which had not the natural parental guardianghip for sure. It was most important oast the geperal opi-
rite successor which belonged to landed property, neon of the clergy of Ireland shosild be oscertoitted ;
the covenant moot be subieet to the inspection of
hewould therefule reorl'to the Ihnow.suote of the
The ordinary. He wontd also propose to Ore the communicatioos whieNhe bid received from c:ergy-
incumbent polier to enter into an regiment with men to. Olt Sulijectottthe time when he wog briuging
the reversioner of the land for the ceityletion ottihe forward his Bill, which sermolteohew that they were
same period of 21 year.. This wait' oat i specials- by no means generally Neves to..soilt •
,plou. The
live fettle& ; the benefit's of it had hero telt sind ...am of the parties. for obvions rumor, it was
•eaperienceri already. Wherever Consposition lad unnecessary for hilts to mention' „brit they were per-
`taken place those perishes discovered an improve. sons of the highest authority and most respectable
Mem in the condition of the peOple, pod an opiros character. [ lite Right Hon. :Baronet kocettled
between them and the clergy which was sensible lo to read from these diferent.leitett Item clergymen,
every one who' witnessed it'. tie had the blipping suggesting specific plaits for hing a.general cool-
anticipations onto the result. If parties bed alreitly mutation in lieu of tithes throughout,the country.]
entered voluntenly into agreements of this useless He came, therefore, to the crmelesion. Ott if the
there was the proof of the -goodner4 of the remedy'. Right Hon. Gentleman really had any wish to
'The clergy, relieved from the,ensiety of collecting bring forward a satisfactory geiters),mempre, it was
their doe., 'would he able to devote themselves more only necessary for him to talte the optilions of the
entirely to the sacred duties of their function. He clergy themselves; all Shot- tem seaming pees am-
'would riot suppose that the tended gentry would centy in the search, to lend to the discovery of a
feel itn7 OppO•illOo to so desirable en erraogernent. plan at once efficient and desirohle. If an acreuble
They most be glad io have their dealings•cutifined tax were objectionable,
_sotp_e other way might be
now to men of 'manly and education, and they deviled of effecting the object; such, kir in-
*bold Meet wish corresponding cutdirlity on ihe stance, is lied been carried into effect in
~1 the' • .
part of clergy. It might be said iliSt !hiss snea- some cases, where u rate authorised by Par-
sore would Prevent a general eomiuutatioo of. Ohio. hament was levied upon a Witioleerarith. and
He presumed that it !would' hive no such eifeet. He money raised therefrom to be Teeted in the 00-
was willitig to. Viten to that or any other proposition chase of land forthe Use
,of 'the ctergyrmati. He
which shodid"be submitted, but he had roUnd hoped theHoUse artudil.not he induced to ogres to
great diMetilty in considering that question of coin- the'lliglit Hon. Gentleman's Bill, which, if adopted,
mutation. ffeloilliiiiined, however. that the ores- would stand in the way of other efficient measures.
sure would fiditilate any other which might be And he trusted the Right Hon. Gentleman would
brought fOrviaid for the general commetstion of not press it until he had uscertaisied the feeling and
tithes, and thaCteini the Matron of t4i Hon. tiro. opinions of the clergy and the country; but would
net when he farmerlyinfehAucedo merivelike the lake until the vest Session to inquire into that
present. He ifetWedtWtgoitiee thetflie mend e#s subject, and consider what measure would be most
monition bildren for some time index the confide- consonant with the feelings of the country, and
titian of ' the' NO Ocrineitk, went, 515(1 that the likely to provide
,the most efficient remedy. He
best and speediest Otis
.wotild be taken to plat was sere the sArsis ood.motion of the Right Hon.
into opiestinti ..+,y 'e(.w of the kind ',which would Gentiggaanwould of themselves satssfy she people
be sselsoliejitsle -and useful. '4lfter tiPologisiiig,for of Ireland for the present, tied reconcile them to
the length atidAiielitY of his eddtesi, he trta,faor the short delay by the le'serimiee it ithirag, hold out
, • . • •
leave to. blitz in a Bill to etuible E. cc eta .el of relielf.
t
and othei rifiono in 'lreland 'to grant . eases of 'Sir J. NeWPoaT pet fectly agreed in opinion with
Tithes, to hi Winding on their Successors, the Right Hon. Baronet who had jest sat down, that
Sir HAwailiiiit.i. said that the tithe 'system bed it would be much better not to attempt any reforin
been Odinteit testi
.14 Mr. Pitt, at the time of the of the tithe system at present, than to edupt a mes-
Unirin;• as the great evil of Arthur,; it ho
.beep sure so wholly inefficient for any good purpose 'as
so detignsied often 'since then, led no remedy that now proposed. In ;noel of the int;fficsicy of
emitted to it. Ile was not to bleMe. As soon es this plan, he appealed to those cases where such a
_begot a seat in the MOSS he submitted's motion, I power as was herein contained already termed : lie
which he. had repeated every oucceed,ing year for p meant the cases of Bishops' tithes. In all Ireland
considerable time. Petitions conic from all pale, there were no tithes so badly administered as in those
Of the Country 'Complaining or its grievancys. Al parishes where the Bishop hod the claim to the tic-
last the state of the country made the evil itOoleor I tonal tithes. They possessed the power of leasiog,
Ale, and Governioeitt had turned their attention hot into) instauce within his knowledge had any
to h. The 'qtiestiera 'fer.riarliernesit now ter. me to . leases beets granted; on the contrary, he knew of some
the Wore and extent or the cbenge to be effected. I cases wherein gentlemen had offered to become ft-
T. indgethis Pihperly they ought to muterstand musts of those tithes in order to protect thetr
.9,1,m
the extent of -
tits He was of opinion that it estates and their truants from the (Sligo of Itlse ow-
would evict:vire a much more genresl ntemitare than tors, and to secure them against the improper doer
nett.. He did not aver that t)ie' evil lay to the manila which were continually enforced fur the
otnonot or tithes 'exacted. The clergy did not re- tithes, and these gentlemen had been refused, and
...rive tinyrthinig Atka the'proportioo of a tenth; lie the proctors still allowed to Proteed io their ex:
Iseheiest 'thin" hips, exacted it with great lil?era. action. With respect to the dt(fiepthieti *Kiehl the
toy, no, the 11140;
.1:14a. pentleinasi woe quite Right Huisounible Gent's-coati ' !hid Alleged as ex-
wrong in asCribing the isii-paytneat of tithes to the wing in the way if any genius) measure. ,he was
exciiisiteieuto. Thelithilts.esshes:id truly, were of at ii loss to know !here any dillicrilties were to
iitcballitferale euronrit inn (fienatielees—and there- be met with that might not be easily overcome.
fore the erinsihdeitiOsi 4 eieessive rents was put fie was sure that if he could poll the parochial
staite out of the gale.' lnetire Mode 4colleeting clergy of Ireland one by one, in such a manner as
ilk tithes created Itli# grevrioCe.. lieu' there was to prevent their 1111'00 Trigs being mode kuowo to
&et power on one lienb,' end great poverty upon their ecclesiastical superiors, he would answer for
ithfch to exercise it o"n .tree :t1,"111.. there most be polling fire-sixths of the whole in favoer of
,s gene-
emotion and tyrann).''. The dipculries were fre- rat commutation. Every branch of ihe tithe eastern
(*oily ag'railitirrhy the mode of asserting the was loaded with evil, but there as noise dirt lied
COL A• stitgle clergyman liald been humus to been so fertile 'in mischief as the tithe upon pot.-
&avulse • whole district, hy epposiag the toes, which, wherever it had been introduced, had
Lab Ito the custom is the collection of his tithes. proved the most prolific source of discord, wrieery.
The poorer of the proCtor Was by far,too greet. He end disturbance. It was one of dm causes Most
Could choose between the Ecclesiestistil and the deeply affecting thetranqiiillity of Trelepa;* 'and if
Exchequer Courts, as so where he would bring his soy proof were wanting That the tithe on potatoes,
action. He did not wish to wake this pert of the and the mode in which it was enforced, was one of
ttutilTon *arse than it was, ondlie would therefore the most powerful exciting curates of the disorders
iffateit case :—A process tuned brim the g*thequer which afflicted that country, it was abonchintly
tO.'teetseer tithes which were for the year 181.6, afforded by the contrast of the peaceable condition
no. 414. ; fur 1817, 75.(6.1. The consequence was of those districts in the' north, where it was hitherto
that the map pityl at 141 11;0•. 10d.. likelUdioi happily unknown, with that of those parts of the
4[ 10s. costa. Every individrial. was liable to this, sobtb and west, where it hod led to 'disturbance,
process at the will of the ;flavor. As to the tell. istroge, and insurrection. 'He could tell the Right
Rion of the people being a barrier—lll gave it ass Honourable Gentleman 'that the tithe system, slid
his confirmed experieuec, that the
.Cotbolics offered
the manner of enforcing 'it. was rat is a grievance,
the leaat objection—the l'uittromots the *Dugout complained of as such,' ocd even resisted as such by
complaints to the tithes. As • bode there wee the rich proprietor of the. Established Church, as
nirthing like egines4resietanee to the pitypent ,ill' Well as by the Boor Roman Catholic; and for ate the
tithes among the Catholics. The Bight Hop. evils with which it abounded, he lte* of only one
Gentleman had omitted a material grievance io the remedy—a general commutation. 'That was no new
tithe • systee4 arising out of the Charge leis* pine : principle ; it was one that had alresdy been acted
the' raw produce 4 the latOck. Tins, according to on in the case of the ministers in trrus, by the Act
flsolet,'hed 'caused the 'tithes to increase ; 'Aro of Clarks 11., under which Comminsiouers were 01'

_ _illy
years in one district; to treble the value, where
the land had only increased one.fnurth—or twelve
times less than the incressed value of the lands.
He denied the astertion that the exaction of
litigh feats disabled the payment of ;kites.—
Though no doubt, in many instances, landlords
would advance their rent% to is I. endeavour to
get the most they Coold, it was not to tis soppowtd
that they Were in general so 'void or 7filer as ao
exact such high rents as must, 6i itseir oppresaite
04frcps on the tenants, ultimately ruin their own
aippests. The lltisibt. Hon. geutirman had slated,
, . . .
thetitere Melded shwas me poor people in Irehind
W *epee' of eitehiletitiori thiit iniliaccilikew to !toy

_ inch ..oases
poiuted by the Privy Couned to.effect a valosbon
of every house end other property iu the respective
parishes, accerdiog to which the dues of the minis.
ten were apportioned, and such valuation was held
to be bidding. Why, he would ask, might not a
similar mode of proceeding be adopted with regard
to the tithes in 'he country ? File deprecated the
odoption by the House of any treasure which might
ham the effect of inducing a hellif that the,'
had applied t-remedy, when in fact no renirily
would be applied. Believing 'as he did that the
lament prepaid offered no rented? to the evil
knowing'ilint in those c`ases•where a similar provision
alrtudy existed, it bad cilber 'nem been acted on,

xt 4
Nl*

• - • ••••.
or proved intr.-mail. he w,,, gigolo to be aidiej in
lolling,. the Home gad the Country iiitei the
belief that this memoir. 'Would afoul any remedy.
It would be far better therefore to wilt until on
. a: -: .• .... • •..10,. • • • • • , ' ' '-'- 1-; •
...4.1.........a0, ..,,e,-... , ,
~
Consider of ouch I'a
remedy, thew to urn.*
meosttre, crude and indigesterl as !her
' 'eh would not touch the evil. •He.should
ly kith is oppoe the introduction of
e which he theologist might be 'tirade IT-
the removal of the evil fur which it was
Provide; and if he conceive,' that the
Right How, Gentleman eauld 'fie in
A to be made available to that objeCt.lie
ready to concur in it, Apt hailid not
think it possible that it cf tila•kte•olllo(4rds or
lest
li
oietil"4o y measure which caold .he adopted 14
evil,.it it woe founded on or adhered to
the principle ofshotaing of tithes. The Right Jinn.
Gentleman said, that his Bill would not itatid in the
way of any general plan of coiippptistpati; but it
did so, by irroctoeing au iturroom• that a remedy
pros already *plaited. It would be pleaded next
year against any further proposal that might be
twonght foil/serif; tostl.thereby they would be placed
tinder the necessity of wititing for some TeSr• longer,
and witnessing the confirmation of the effects of
that yystern by which lreland had so long beeu
harassed utalMisturbed.
Mr. Ptonkkry said the House would no doubt
recollect the call that had been medrat the ',pro-
log of the Session, sod the warmth and earnestness
With which it had been urged on the Government
of !retold, to bring forietirtl some measure to
ameliorate the tithe intent, 'which it .was stated
was prettying so sertiely on the country. In con-
sfq.oetwe Of Altai appeal, and 01 th; manner in
which it .had•laren orgelf. the Government of that
country had applied its whole attention to the sub-
ject, and after the fullest consideration itt their
power to give it, this measure opperared to.be the
best they were able to propose. He thought, there-
,
fore, that there pas a departore from the toual
courtesy shewn on spiel) occasions. in rofusing to
the Rill the formality of a first reading, iu order
that the House might be put iii full poasesporkof
its details. His Right Hon. Friend (44 J. New-
port) opposed the 13i I. because he Ned it would
101 l the House ant!1 • ooOtis to 'opt ,#poo tile
giSubject. If 'it riget ' Ike .geipoind oftbooe evils
growing out of the "MOs which *gaoled the
country, it ought to !have the eli!ect which his
Right Honoorgblw -Priests! autitipated ; bait if it
did not prove an efficient measure, as his Right
HonourobliFriind said it would not, then it nei-
ther ought nor would it lull ' the feelings of the
House and the country on the subject. Notwith-
standing the arguments of his Right Honourable
Friend, he was confident it would not stand in the
way of 1111 general measure of commutation ; but
would rather facilitate that object by its effect is
ascertaining the valpe pl the lithe. in the several
diwrieis: flisklglititooparsble Friend had said there was
AO difileully in ibd way of "a general commutation. If be
eeneld 'thew aey plan that Wei it of prrctirahle, safe, and
euntistent With those inkwell, *lnch must be proterted,
it should not oily wirel with no opposition from him (Mr.
P.), but It should here hi. cyclist support. The Govern-
ment were not to heldamed ler pet Iscitig able to propusestach
a Plan, because they 'had sot been able to discover arty
such; •itif he should be'dio4lying the House if he allowed
any opinion to be euteriniocal,ihat he had the smallest hope
that any aside plan could be foend. The first objection which
Lo 'restliciplted to any such plan, would be—as to the
mode of assiring the amount of the composition. The
property in 'AM must be desalt with on the trove princi-
ple as all otber property, and he was sure hii Right Ho-
nourable Friend would nut Wish to deal with it otherwise.—
He should be glad then to are any plan regulated by that
principle, that would be es pimple in its operation as his
Right Hon. Friend supposed. The •aluation in the firm
place in bipd, meat be formed upon the actual value of
the titlitei,• bed WM upon the rim paid. Now he would
veolusi so assert, and if requisite would undertake to
prove, litht 'What hail hitherto been received ansisented
much scare to one-tweetielli than to one-tenth of the
produce of the country. The Aso erect if such a
me.aaie, therefore, inlaid he to double the amount that
had hitherto been•pitri ;' fur. If they compelled the clergy
so tate a commutation, he would say that they must rive
them a commutatiun (minded on
what they had a right its
receive, and not on whet ,lbey bed menially received. On
what principle coulil they apkipt say compulsory m
ió whirls propm ty was ronceireid, unlesis it were founded on
the priociPle of right! Tlie4e was so other, no:eis the cleric,'
wire to be compelled to ontiehrier a part of their right to
those who sought to ease ilitonsellves of the obligation to pay
the full amount or their tithes; lead if ear* that convenient
principle were acted (1114. f !RIMY( to the discretion of those
Oho were to pay the amount of itilies which they should be
called on to discharge, he .yarned the House and the country
that it would eel eed there. The evil would soon over-
take the landlord's; the rents woutd soup follow the tithes.'
The first milikei of complaint, in ell the disturbances that
took place its Ireland, was the tuber, but it was never lent;
in reaching the rents oho. The grievance began with the
clergyman, but it always ended with the landlord—(Hear,
liesel--He was sure that every man who had bad any ripper.
loopy of observing the rise and progress of the disturbances,
and tracing their causes, knee that the tithes were no more
in questiou than the scuts. His Right Honourably Friend
had said, that disturbances prevailed in those places where
Ilse tithe on potatoes was exacted, while other place., where
that tithe Iris unknown, remained perfectly tranquil;
sod therefore he it.gued that the potato tithe was the cause
of the disturbances. Bet be would try the strength of that
argument by suotbee, founded on the reverse. In the year
1.820, the four countie. of Mayo, Roscommon, Galway, and
Sliest, were in such a distils bed state aa to be placed under
the operation of the lasurrection Act. There was no tithe
on potatoes exacted • ia theise•eoinsties, and at the same
period all the other counties, eve, Hume where the potato
tithe was collected, were free from disturbance. Could
it from thence be inferred that the cause of the disturb.
eat state of the four castanet' he bad mentioned was to
be found in the absence of the potato tithe ? He would
therefore oppose his testimony us to the cause of the
disturbances to that of his Right lion. Friend. It was said
that this Rill would not be 'Schen, because wberethe power
of leasing already tai-red it was nut acted on. That was one
of the inconveniences of arguing on a measure before the
House was in possession ails +lentils. It would have been
found on an inspeetion of the Bill, that it nut only enabled
the clergy to lease their tithes, but it gave such advantages
to the party, so would act as a moral compulsion to the
exercise of that piker. It would also remove tore of the
greatest inro/3,e0, of which his Right lion. Friend com-
plained, namely, th.t of the etergyutan having to deal with
the poor occupant of lend professing a different religion,
who felt it a hardship to be obliged to pay tithes to a aurch
to whirl, be did soot belong. He wished to guard spinet
soy thing w:oeit be might say that night being con.
'trued ono a general and unmerited censure upon the
laudlords of heisted generally. He was sure there were
no men as a body more respectable, more just, or who
had a truer sense of what the circumstances of the country
required of them. Rut he slid assure the Howie, that the
demands for rent were found to press heavier on the poor
people of Ireland, than the exaction by the clergy of that
whirls as their dim they had a right to claim. There were
lambi that were made " tithe-free; and the result was, that
Hie difference or enema of mut exacted by the landlord
fur such lands uu that accusal was on ao ge

• -• _
sr
oust
nearly fiptar fiasco Ili levied for lightyl. go
il4lne,ovs.'y ~a• drat tort, .bil if vonihr ren•
slant sislijeti of 44snu s; the hit.11..r.1 Irislilug Ihr leiia.,l
le lake (Pr land I trt.e, at an itirreare of rent, learns 4
him In mettle am • etereato•ll or his po.re.bf ; and the
....,,.
• .

clergy woal4 willingly 'wog( t► goontefi itotelimipttnqww.
Even aamiiiing the feel, he Anil.) not feel 111111Mleta to
Ifenwiply with the wnshris of eny portion of the clergy. ci the
expeni.e of eionprotnisios she iplerefle Abe Altltes_itgmls
ewinhliehmersl.

Mr. S. RICE mid, bit all the hopes bes had hitherto en.
tertained of a emigres-tiny measure for the emelmestion of
the tithe system, were new Overthrown. Far what Irish
Geetlemnis, who hid heard the opinion of the Altueury.Ge.
urral of let:land, could say the
,he eetertaired espy tendon.
able expectation of any genera/ inerauee being offered by
the Government. The Right a.. the A!,.„1.5.pe,.....1
had asked, what better plats ilt;:y (the Oppositims) ha I tu
propose? 'the fair 'newer to ruck a litiptl4lll would be,
that it was the province of .Government tu propose plans.
and thit it was • snakiest objection or ,their met,
if a plass to proposed was int:Niro air its object.
Alibis% be asked, what full sad fair measure of emptititetion,
they were peers:ed to give fur the whole anoint of the
SAM ? If the clergy pet in their claim :for the Gill Pea'
piietien of the tither, ler (Mr. M. Rim) Irma alb orthein in
return to perforni a frill share of theryedMiei. coMliaera-
lion of which those tithes were orielealty. beittowed--(/leae,
hoar )—The Attorney-General of Ireland, with his annmand•
sue talents and great legal knowledge, knew' MI well
thst it was nut • viaion of which lie spoke, when he
Mel:limied the fourfold division of the tithes—fair the
repair of the church, for the bishop, and aboee
foe the maintenance of the poor ; mid lastly foe the support
of the pan.chial clergy. He visa sure that there was as
meth anxiety on the part or the parochial clergy of Ireland
generally as on 'het of his friends, to meet the measure of
vegetal commutetirm. He called, therefore, on the Go-
vernment to investigate the subject, and to imitate
whether such a measure might not he practicable. If
it were an, it ought to be adopted to trate,e the peace
of the country; for be was sure
would agree, that on the principle enteral ensre.
lawn) of tithes, more than on any other, the peace mid
happiness of the people of Ireland depended. The use
monocled, he declared, would be inefficient ; 124e411111P, as his
Right Hon. Friend had stated, it had been already tried and
found wanting. If the Right Hoe. Gentleman (sir. Goal-
burn) were really disposed to assent to the future introduction
of • measure of general commutation, would .11e consent to
the sppointmesit of a Commission to investigate the whole of
the system, and to say how far it was practicahle,or otherwise.
The late Mr. Perceval, oat a motion of • (sited of his (Mr.
S R.) on thie subject, said, he was happy le inform the
Mouse that the subject of the Irish tithes was then under
emisideriann, and be hoped to be metered with a measure
relating to it in the next Session. Session after Memino
however had pulsed away, and Secretary had ancereded,Se.
tretarY—an, i.e believed, with the hest intentions; but
thif had fiend the subject ao hampered with difficul-
t*, that they abandoned it in despair. 'Aid he was
Odle sore that unless some gentle violence were used with
the Govern:neut. however well dispersed it might be, it never
Would be able to carry any missies of that met into effect.
It was in vain for the Irish Members, unless they did vied a
Mlle of that gentle violence, to say that this or that ought to
be done. If they ;Alerted at ale, they must be contieced
that some general measure was necessary; and if they did
feel it iu be 50. no motive or feeling of a political nature
whatever ought to 'adore them to relarfrenta enforcintit. If
this Bill was eslculated it hie opinion in remedy the evil, no
Gentleman opposite could more heartily join iu supporting
it than hinsterf. But it was *cause be material:fed the fullest
conviction (gat it win oot on elfictret measure, tool that so
oilier could be pubetlinted which would rot better answer
the purpose, that he opposed it.
Mr. D. BROWNS said, that the subject of tithes in Ireland
had for the last fifty years within his memory involved the
country in disturb-ince. fl'ithout goiegintoputieulars, with-
out attemptiog to say who was right or who was wrong,
he would sty (list the tithe system e as the chief cause of all
the diets:chances In Ireland; and that he thought should
weigh with the Honor and the G :vermeil to pminote as
investigation, with • view to the discovery din efficient re-
medy. The country mem could he tranquil while that els.
tens existed. He thought the present Bill would relieve the
evil its some degree, and therefore be should agree to it. He
did not, however, think a fell cure could be found in any
measure short or . general commutation, and he hoped that
womb( be at leeeth accomplished.
Mr. DAWSUN returned his thanks to the Right Hon.
Gentlemen (Mr. Goullrurn) for the cool, sincere, and dis-
passionate manner its which he bad brought the subject for.
ward, and concurred in hie proposal ma laying the foundation
f.le a Paeral commutation. He thought that the whole cell
of the tubes arose from the law of agistment. The modern.
tiara pf the clergy in the collection was exemplary, sad he
wits ghat° have an opportouityof expressing his opinion,
as many aspersions had .ten tlifoeit on them, 'bat the clergy
of Ireland were in every respect equal to the clergy of this
country.
Mc. SPRING RICE explained.
Mr. ISGAA DY raid, that with all the alteation which he
had been able to give to the 'abject, he could come to no
other opinion their that the tithe system was p great carte
of the disterbauces; and Omagh he did •ut tisiuk the Hill
would do all, yet It weoltreffeet eoniethieg—and, as such,
it shoildte hie support; but be would oppose any coin-
mutat:oh kis should have the effect of gyring a greater
income be *Velem, time they already had, which, iu leis
"MO alti"1" • was now too large. The Honourable
Menden.' ettaimersteil the hiseilehips to which the farmer
was iexPriecria Wens if any titigalion or dispute with
the eiereiy. 744 sammary remedy was a great grievaace,
for tporglt the clergy were nee allowed to sit as
judges its 'their over ewe. yet their frjeeds and relations
wiipbt, and' frequently did sit by invitation ; awl thus the
administration of jostler in Ireland wea brought tuto cat-
tempt, and the children of the farmer aggrieved by it were
nurtured in eentimeuts of that kxil, watch led them ulti-
mately to recruit those bands which were.aceo to exist is the
mountains of the south of Ireland. Be believed there was
not a county of leelend, which paid the tithes of potatoes,
that a Speelsi Consosission for the trial of White Mil offeacea
had nut gone into since the Union. It was somewhat re-
'linkable that in Ireland the progress of eultivelion and if
discontent had been co.extetierve. it did area te kiss slat
the nisi,' tautly( distuybeoce there was the tithes, and that
something ought to be done to redeem that gri
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY begged to fecal the
attention of the House to the questiou before them. His
Right Holt. Friend had felt himself called upon to eater
somewhat at large upon the sabjrct, but he had not pro-
(emelt to have made up, his mind to any general measure, and
was ready to receive the suggedions or auy Hon. hlenther on
the question; this, therefore, was not he thought the proper
stage for any extended debate on the general eutsject. He
should be unwilling to go into any diseussioe which should
pledge his own mind to say cuuclusion, es he, like his Right
Hots. Friend, was anxious to keep himself free from soy pre-
mature decisive. He could 1101 join in the expreeston of
satisfaction expressed by the Honourable Baronet (Sir
Henry Parnell) at the downfall of the tithe system in the
other countries of Europe; 1.01 lie was satisfied that the House,
is giving this Bill to Ireland, would be giving a great
boot. •to that country. He deprecated any premature
discussion ou the commutation of tithes, though it had
beeu treated by the Hon. Baronet as if the question of com-
mutation could be as °may settled as the purchase of •
quitter of wheal. lie had not understood his Richt lion.
Friend to hay- named any particular measure as to which lie
had made up his mind. Ile had declared that he would treat
he
if
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should
be
property
trembleehtrue raettodf oroano nnr theiant
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irfhimunee
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et:
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d
heir)—he therefore hoped the House would keep the
whole question of COMMailliOa open fur future
consideration, and if his Right Hon. Friend could not
satisfy his own mind as to any system of commutation,
either permissive or compulsory, he would place himself in
the position to inform the House what were the means
which pies:gated his coming to any conclusion. At the same
time, as be observed before, his Right Hue. Friend was

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