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London, England, 1819-11-27 00:00:00

sty taken advantage of to reiterate those Loyal
Addresses. while nut one attempt was made to ex-
press wishes of protection and feelings of commie-
firm for a siiffering people ?—(Fleur, hear.)--
Pledges of all kinds were to be given on the one
aide, but none cm the other, to ',quire into the
deep and general grievances and distresses of the
people. What did the Address proclaim ? It an-
nounced the rort6irrence of the llouse in the avowal
that disaffection prevailed in the manufacturing',
districts, end that it must be met by coercion.
There was indeed an allusion to the ili•triss that,
prevailed there. accompanied by a simple hope that
it would only be of iemporary duration.—a hove fur
which he feared there was but slender fousidaiiim.
As to the local outrage at Matschester, there were
two circuutstances which he would distinctly state,
and on which he was at home with the Noble Lord.
He was near the spot at the time, and hail seen
several who were present. and who distinctly denied
that ony resistance bad been offered to any Magis-
trate ill the act of reading the Riot Act ; or that
any attack whatsoever had been 'made upon the
yeomanry previous to their exclamation of, I lave
at the flags!"—(!fear.)--This VI:111 W lint lie had heard
from good authority, awl 514 III)" itiipory was to lie
set aside, it was fair to meet assertion by assertion.
(blear.)—The Ilmi. Gentleman then drew a feel-
ing picture of the state of the kelpie.% families in
Lancashire. many of whom were by the events of
the 16th August firprivtil of those who contributed
to their anpport. These poor people, not ithstantliog
their losses, waited with patience to see what Parlia-
ment would do for them in the way of inquiry or re-
dress. They now find that that soothing hope is vain.
and it was painful to contemplate the cense qiience of
Ibis disappointment. With reference to the pr....
ceeilings of the Magistrates, lie begged to obeerve
that it did tint follow, because they gave no order
to the military to 'Advance in aid of the civil power,
that therefore the military were to use finer, with-
out a positive order to that .fleet, as was given
during the riots in London, in 1780. Ile agreed
in opinion with those who thon4iit it was highly
impolitic to have employed the ,Manchester yen-
minty on such an occasion. They were local
dents, and should not have been placed. while re-
gular military were On the spot, in a situation which
necetwarily exposed them to the hatred of many of
the lower orders. It is said that though Parliament
cannot grant an inquiry, yet that the justification of
the Magistrates will he made manifest upon the trial
of the istificiMelli against Mr. II . But the people
will not be satisfied with this us-urance—thry Dill
not be satisfied with the measures of the NJagii.
trates or the Government unless they ran be
proved innoceid. There may be a difference be-
tween the yeomanry and the Magistracy, one
or both may effect their exculpation, but the Mitti•-
ters catinot,because from the first moment they adopt-
ed the whole proceeding at their own, end made
themselves responsible, so trollied if criminality shall
attach to any party. they (the Government) cat ((((( t
be innocent.—(Hear.)—One of the papers before
the House shortly disposes of one part of the cause
of the evil—it plainly and feelingly states, that dis-
tress is the origin of the grievance. Can then a
people, acknowledged by the Magistrates on the eve
of the Manchester meeting to be in such a stale of
distress, avail themselves of the only mode of seek-
ing redress, which :Ministers left open to them—
he meant the Courts of Law. 'lite Noble Lord
oppoitite, and others of his Nl.jesty's Ministers, had
alluded to the subscripihni which MM. going Guth
fur than relief of the Manchester suffereis. as a source
from which the people could derive the means of
putting their claims at issue in the Courts of Law.
This appeared to him to he a vet y singular sanction
of this subscription, coming from such a quarter.
particularly when he recollected the abuse which
had been poured upon the seine subscription by,
that part of the daily press, which was known to be
under the immediate control and influence of Gm
vrrnment. It had been described as the scouring,
of the Jacobins' purse, and yet it now appeared
upon the acknowledgment of his Majesty's Ministers,
that it was the only source from which means could
be derived, to enable the sufferers to seek redress
in Courts of Law.—(Hear.)--U util IVerinesday night
he had hopes that Ministers would agree to an in-
quiry. Now that those hopes had vanished, and as
lite attention was directed by Moisten. to the sub-
scription, he should, guided by them, contribute
to it his mite—(Hear)—and in strict justice, lie
thought the Gentlemen opposite ought to come for-
ward and liberally add to the same loud, as they
were the persons who relied upon it as furnishing
the means to institute the necessary inquiries
through the regular legal chantitle.—(//eur.)—
For the Gentlemen with whom lie acted to contri-
bute. could be considered as only an act of genero-
sity—but for Ministers to do so was au act of jut-
Hear.)—lf they objected to the hands
which at present managed the subscription, let
them start one of their own, cud put it under
ministerial treasurers. lie had no predilection fur
the parties in whose hands the money was stow vest-
ed—they were neither friends nor acquatutences of
his. So that lithe Gentlemen opposite would take a
subscription in hand for the issue purposes he
would be perfectly ready to intrust them with his
mite. instead• of consigning it to the old managers.
—(A laugh.)—The subject was a serious one—the
people were in a state of abject distress, and they
were to be met by coercion. instead of that spirit of
conciliation which the Minister was recommended to
adopt by every good man its the country. He would
not feel that he had dune his duty if he did not rut.
dially join in this recommendation. In speaking of
the Nlasichester Magistrates, he laboured under the
attune difficulty anddelicacy that embarrassed his Hun.
and Learned Friend (Mr. Scarlett).—With some of
them he was intimately acquainted. He lied in
particular the highest repeal for Mr. Norris. the
stipendiary Magistrate. than whom he did Hot think
these was upon earth a better or more kind-hearted
moo. If hi sanctioned the events of the Ifith Au-
gust. or was nut over-ruled by his brother Magic.
trades, then for that day he must have chatiged
the benignity of lii• 'mute. He repeated his re.
grit that an tliquity was not likely to take place.
and also his surprise that, in the case at the
trumpeter. the Magistrates dill not leave to the
jury the responsibility of deciding upon the evi-
dence of the fact. He did hut thick the Magis-
tracy were in reality desirous of tolerating soy
denial of justice, but lie wished that even in sp.
pearance they had avoided standing in such a
light. Tins wag a melaecholy state fur the country

•
to be jolar ed in after the ferminotiol cf a glorion
war —of their renown and their ucloievenients they
hill Ilene.' a great deal ; but wise it net time her tbein
to hear of the proini.rd blessing, of that peace, for
the attainment of which ois much blond Null f reason..
had been shed ? Herren. indeed. was the elm! of
that war if it bequeathed In the people toodneg but
misery soil enercion. Were throe. he would tisk.
the halcyon days stitch were bequeathed liy that
triumphant war ? They load .maul( them the greet
Geheral who 11311 so glorititi.ly lerillittatell it, Will
the people hoped and expected th•t es they saw law
in war, cuifolnitting for the attainment of their peace
and the preaervation of their Consiotioti 000 they
would new, when that peace vim+ COO.lll 00000
find him among the fore 00000 st defender* of the
rights and liberties which his nchieveineone bad
preserved for thern.—/Cries of hear. hear./—
The war had entente' great Insolent upon the pen.
ode—some tameiderootion 114..111.1 he paid to Ille
e,IIIIWII Or their preorfot fli.trest. To 1 hone their
floloyelty in the unqoialth.d mown• r in which it
Wll.llolomileit. was to lio•tlit the great bulk el. toe
loyool throughout the (amatory. To least of the
success 4.f a war waged for religion Loud hhert V, saw
sarong. ly illeteldistelit with the av•iwAl ol(;ov.-vo.
meet, that the pernicious% (beatifies 4.1 trail t inn.
feel even Atheism, stalked through the bust', and
that loyalty gave way fouler the 14.11.ielice of ron.
publican priociples.— lifer. )—lle pready feared
that Misoieters had acted loot too onc. e.•foolly ui
I plats of rrilucisog all pinate men to a levet wait
theneolves: in does respell they %vele ii.r greoste.t
as well as the worst of leveller. —( I fear.)-1111
prayer however to dents W 4.0. 111 A ere yet it 0:10 lOU
late they would Wien to the voice of the people. moil
attend to their complaint., awl
Nlr. WILBRAHAM lloort.c, In explanation of
what he had said on is former night, stated den he
was fully borne out, from the papers on the table
of the House, in his assertion, that the olject of
the meeting at Manchester was plunder—not that
the people 111e-1111 10 go about mod rub the moment
Ih•c elotered the town. but that tt was their Ott-
male object to wrest by force property 1111111 those
won held it. The Hon. Member referred, in sup-
port of Ins opii o i 0000 to the ststement node by the
Grand Jury of Laioceshire. He referred to au off-
clod document, skewing the numbers outmoded Into
the Infirmity at (VlaLchester. ill cruise-poeticy of
ht.rt« received on the day of the meeting. Front
this it njowered (exclusive of out-patteniv) that thit-
ty•eli4lit Were admitted.—[Mr. Ilnoveit Am melted
items. the table the doe of this Report, mod Nlr.
IIooTLE anowered the t20t11.1-1 le had no doubt
the otetroneut he leod made on the furueerevruing was
correct. There was moodier point at issue with respect
to the anent of the 16th August last—it war, whether
the yeomanry first atoatilted the, mob, or the mob
ceininstied the lion assault Mgt.:llloi the yetioneti. in
his opinion the yeomen %vete first attacked. In
proof of this the Ilan. Member went over the de-
tails of the transectiutos of that day, and
'tidy recited the 0000000000000000 of the notlitary, a. they
entered the vomit. Ile it, however. as it might.
he was convinced of the extreme impropriety of
bringaog an inquiry into those transactions before
the House. The Courts of law Isere the only pro-
per places for such au investigation. He wished to
say IWO or three words on the case of the Magi*.
trees. Many of the Hon.Gehtleenen seemed to Iloilo k,
unit had so expremed theineelve., that the Ma-
gistrates of Manchester ought to have been
missed after the events of that day. This he
could not but consider us t harsh mode of con-
duct to that bony, many of whom were men of
family and fortune, nod to his knowledge as great
friends to the liloertieo of their country as any men
in It. They had ineriouriotioly itiocioorged au ar-
' dilate* duty. hot only on that day, but for mouths
previous to it, at the risk ;almost of their hero and
projwrty. It was plain that they had the support
of all the respectable men in their own neighbour.
hood, as was proved by the Loyal Address Iron
Manchester, in which it was blated, that the sub-
scriber. " relied with the utmost confidence in their
magistracy, for the full and faithful discharge of
their duty no support of the laws, and for the pre-
servation of the peace ; and they could not repress
their abhorrence and detestation of the unfounded
and malicious charges made against Gentlemen of
such high respectability," &c. The Magistrates
had, moreover, the apprybation of the District
Commander, whose character lie need nut describe,
when they knew that bit name was 13)11g—that be
was an able and a patriotic soldier, tied that us he
was a Whig officer, be would be the last matt to do
or say ally thing against the liberties of the people.
Mr. DEBBI AN raid, that as there was it l'll.lllellge
thrown out from the Ministerial side, in the course
of the debate on the ameoiduient, as to ditclittiog
the legality of the Manchester meeting, and the
proceedings consequent thereon, he felt it to be his
duty to state his own opieion on that subject ; he
should indeed have done it at the time, but from
the length of the debate, it having been extended
during the two slights to upwards of twenty hour,.
He knew whet sort of a reception he hail diets to
expect, bad he attempted it. Ile had felt, and
did still, that iuquiry was in the highest degree
necessary. For the purpose of acquiring it. he at-
, tended in his place the day before, and was among
those Member* who had so endeavoured to make a
House ; he had done the mime that day, and would
have taken the opportunity, as speedily at possible,
to express his option's) upon that yews, 00000 . As the.
Noble Lord, however. load put WI the iistioduce
tion of his promised measures, lie (Mr. 1)e 1111 l aio)
felt tout it would be more proper for loom also to
reserve his opinion until the discussion of those
measures. In the mean time, he could oeot agree
with the Address, and lie never would, unless some
pledge or promise should be given in it, that the
House would loot too time in taking into conoiderae
lion those outrages, the worst and most um:oust'.
tutionelly violent which could be committed
against the lives and liberties of his Majesty's sub-
jects; evil enough, considered simply as acts of
outrage—but, worst of. all, as they were intruded
to prepare the way for restrictions on the rigles of
the resolute, and inhingenseins ono the glorious Com-
annum'. Never till itiquity were granted into
those suspicious events, would he agree to the
Address. He expressed his regort that the Address
contained no hint of cloodolence for the mail suf.
tering', and oppressions of the people. Ile could
not couceive a sufficieoft motive ell the framers for
omitting some !thew of commiseration for the *LI.
versifies of the people; he rather thought that the


Address afforded an excellent opportunity for shew.
tug souse such sympathy. and he repeated his regrtt
that it hail not beets made use of.
Mr. SH F.PH Eitto,..sorter so prolonged a discisaion,
was urtwilltng to trouble the House. but felt him-
self !wood by every sense of justice, to protest
against the Amendment. It would he adding too
much to the h ing and vexation which the
Magistrates of Manchester had already too pain-
fully endured. Whatever course the House might
adopt, in case they allowed the inqury ',quiver! by
the Amendment, the impression on the public
I would still be adverse to the Magistrates.
‘Vhsither the yeomanry or the mob were the first
assailants—whether the Riot Act was read or not—
these. mid ninny other questions like them, he
wool., say nothing shout. The Magistrates were,
in his opinion, hound to disperse that meeting;
it was in g tof law a riot, and he had two of the
greate.t authorities In support his assertion, two
!navel, who were the best friends of liberty ever
k :novo in the Courts. The Flotiourable and
I,ssroril Gentleman opproite had decluuied, as yet.
+tatu.g filly opinion. He had, indeed, promised
to do so. and he (Mr. Shepherd) had anxiously
;istiiiied for it. but had heard no reason nor legal
srgament at all. He could quote the opinions of
Lords Chief Justice Holt and Foster. Holt had
defined that any assemblage ass a riot which was
lurid in terrorem popish. By many it was held
that arms were necessary to impart this character
toe mob ; but Lord Holt had declared. that any
thing supplying the place of arms, and causing
terror to the public mind, was a riot. Numbers
also might, by supplying the place of arms,
constitute a riot. and be more terrible than a
smaller ;umber furnished with arms. Judge Fos-
ter, in a case of high treason, where it was urged
in defence that there were no arms found, declared,
that numbers substituted arms, and therefore the
crime was the seines, if the arming had been proved.
It was tint necessary, however, ter the Magistrates
to prove the meeting riotous—it was illegal ; the
marching with music and banners from different
quarters of the country, and assembling on the
ground. resolved to pursue their purpose at the
risk of their lives, were illegal. Ile then had to
cotusider the means used for dispersing a meeting
kuown to be illegal. A complaint had been made
about employing the yeomanry. To him it ap.
'reared that the yeomanry, being the most constitu-
tional force. were the fittest to be employed ; they
stood in the place of the posse consitoins. He admitted
hat the posse continua: would not be sofficient for
effectually dispersing the meeting without the assist-
ance of the military. Considering the state of the
country at the time, the Magistrates were bound to
disperse the meeting. They had assembled under
the pretext of petitioning for • redress of grievances.
It was plain, from every circumstance connected
with the proceedings oldie Radicals, that this was
a mere pretext. Now, in proportion to the excel.
!once and value of any right, was the impropriety
and turpitude of abusing it. Better that ouch •
right, or that any right should be restricted in
its use, than that it should fall into contempt
and oh-nervier. through misusing it : better that
laws should be passed for restricting the most vs-
lunble right, than to allow a wanton and mitichie.
vans application of it. Manchester, on the 16th. of
August, was au ample testimony of this truth. And
here he could not help alluding a little pointedly
to the conduct and language ofGentlemen opposite.
Ooe of the most dangerous circumstances of the
present times was, that no real danger was sus-
pected ; there was ID that House • constant emirs-
your to slew that there was no danger. such Is called
for particular interference on the part of Govern-
ment. This was an evil common to all Govern-
ments, but one which ought to be especially avoided.
There was dedeed no danger which a Government
might not obviate, if the subject were taken up in
time. The neglect of this providence hail how-
ever been in all cases the win of Governments.
Hence the danger of personal ambition in free
Slates ; its progression had in all instances gone on
unobserved, until the influence of the individual
had become too great for the control of the State,
and the people accordingly became enslaved. It was
tin less dangerous to sutler the growth of popular
clamour in a state. It might for a long time at-
tract no attention ; tt might be, um he feared it
had been, supported to • certain extent by persons
of property and influence, who hoped to let it run
to such extent with profit amid advantage to them-
selves ; they had, however, justifiably found it im-
possible to curb it at the crisis they proposed; the
only method was to check it at the outset. Let
them look at the history of die world—let them
trace the course of faction—let them examine the
way in which either individur: cunning or popu-
lar insubordination had increased from a small and
perhaps unperceived beginning, by what means
tither of them had increased, till their effects had
surpassed the possibility of control—they would
find that the liberties of states had always heen
overthrown by temporising, and by negligence of
the incipient malady. He warned the House
against any disposition, therefore, so temporise or
offer concilinsion to the present prevailing disposi-
tion to turbulence, and still more against any ill.
founded dread of injuring the Constitution by ap-
plying those restraints which alone could preserve it.
An Hon. Member opposite had observed, that it
would be not only useless, but dangerous and asis-
dorsi:nu to attempt to wage war against opinion.
He (Mr. Shepherd) concurred with him: he went
Natter ; he would nut wage war against opinion, even
when he knew it to be wild, fanatic, and having •
destructive tendency, except in its operations it
acquired too great • head. When it became thus
dangerous to the public tranquillity, to the laws of
the land. to sad individual property, then it
was indeed time to put it down, under whatever
shelter it placed itself of pretended lawfulness
and constitutional right. The Magistrates were
certainly right in checking, as they did. the
'age of certain opinions breaking forth into Pets
11l l iently dangerous to the public welfare. Me-
ath-010n had spread through almost • majority of
the population; it was accompanied by sedition
and blasphemy, and together they were spreading
over the country iu a nistuner which must be insoles
diattly arrested, or rebellion would suou be lain&
table. He had listened with astonishment to the
argument of an Hououruble Member, who, in at-
tempting to separate the reformers from the charges
of blasphemy. hod asserted that the Christian re.
ligiou was favourable to the liberties of mankind.


I

True, it was favourable to liberty, but only to ' .
'serf► under the guidance of laws. sorpiv .t
would not be pretended that this was the nl of
liberty sought by the seditionists, who called
selves Radical •Reformers ; no, their liberty w„
the right of plunder, of ilevaststion, of enjoy.
ing the property of their neighbours and mot.;‘,
The flood of sedition and blasphemy which hid
streamed from the pens and cheap publications, had
rendered some restrictions indispensable. No res.
sonable man ought to feel any alarm at such a me,.
sure, with the conviction before his eyes, furnislo,l
by the cheap publications, of its necessity. He coli!il
quote the bpinion of one of the most liberal mpub:..
cans (Milton), in favour of adopting such* memo..
in emergency. Milton had declared, s' that book,
ought to be watched by a Government as mu, h
as men. For I know," said lie, " how !this,
they are, and if scattered up .4nd down, and left
to themselves, how likely they are to spring np
cursed men." The same with the cheap
lions; from paper sod print, if left to therooyrs,
they would become horde. of infidels and re-lieft,
and finally overturn the Government and Consti-
totion.

Mr. MARTIN (of GIIIWIly). 111111 happy in harm,'
an opport yof expri-sping his approtanitto the
speech of an Honourable and Learned Gentleman
oppoaite. No one could feel more sensibly than
himself the sufferings of the Manchester multitude
oil the 1611, of August last. It was laudable in
that Honourable and Learned Gentleman (the
Hon. G. Lain!,) to think of assignor; the sufferings
of the poor people who were wounded and otherwise
hurt on that day. He could not help thinking
indeed, that it would be vary honourable in either
side of the House to do something for the antic-
lions of those who suffered. lf, indeed, the Ho.
nourable and Learned Gentlemen opposite, were Bt
ready to lend help to those poor creatures olio had
lust the help of a husband on that day—(Leachler)
he thought it would be much better than making
long speeches in that House shout their (mores-
aim's and sufferings. He repeated it, that if they
would put a littleuatmey, and sustenance into the
mouths of those whir required it—( Lairghler)-11
they would Eive • few pounds out of their pocketi,
they would be more gratefully received than all
their mouthy speeches put together.—(Laughter./
—Alluding to an Honourable Baronet, who sin
not in his place, lie said, th.tt lie was glad of I'll
absence, os lie wanted to praise him, and it would
be much better to do it behind his back He watt
glad to find that the Honourable Baronet had
adopted several families, that were be d of their
support and head. He hoped the example would
he followed by other Gentlemen. He had no doubt
that the Hon. Baronet had done this; for he would
not surely say so much about their calamities and
tribulation, and his own commiseration of them,
without giving them some substantial relief. As to
a Parliamentary inquiry, which had been demand.
ed, into their sufferings, he could not conceive
what recompense that would bring to them for
the loss of the lives of their relatives, or the
wounding of their own limbs. But the least part
of the impropriety of ouch • measure was, its use.
• lessness—it was in fact highly mischievous. Nu
lawyer in that House would ondertake to say that
it was a good plan to aliew the case of a criminal in
a Court where he was not to be tried, and thus fur-
nish en opportunity for subornation and perjury of
the evidence. He had heard of the evils end Maio-

venieoces suffered at Manchester ; lie was norm• for
them ; he was sorry, as every soma must be, for the
lists lost, and the wounding aud trartuding
down of the persons on that day, Ile charged,
however, all the miseries which they suffered to
the doctrines and speeches of the Gentlemen
opposite; it was to their harangues widnii those
walls that the traoractions of the 16th of Au-

gust, and any thing springing out or them, were to
be attributed. It was their habit of charging the
Administration, Gentlemen of the highest honour
and integrity, with corruption, Ilia had produced
all the mischief. Nothing else could come of their
conduct, when they represented to the public that
utmost all the taxes were minecemary—that they

were only exacted to supply one man • lianduime
mat, another a fine pair of buckles, s third a fine
coach—while they knew very well that the mould
of all the taxes fur one hundred years, about *lnch
they barked so much, would not produce a single
breakfast for each individual iu the kingdom.
They were constantly representing the taxes as nu-
necesaary, and only gathered for the porpose of in-
creasing the luxury of a few individuals, *bile, as
they pretended, the people were stinted in their
enjoyments and property by them ; lie hayed that
they would in future prove by computation to the
public how much comfort each poor man lost by
taxes, how much more clothes and food would be
left to hint if they were nut gathered. Ile hoped
that they would prune what they asserted, or else,
seeing the danger into which their unproved asser-
tions had brought the country, remain silent.
He would reply to an argument which had bent
used, comparing the Intact. of Parliament to a
Grand Jury, and entreating the Howe, under that
view, to grind inquiry. Did ever mortal hear of a
man being put on trial for rape or murder
(Loughter)—fur the sake of establishing his moo..
eerier ? Could • Grand Jury say,
with any great
degree of propriety, r‘ We are upon our oath, and
are convinced that you are ocent, but we sill
find you guilty, for the sake of giving You an
opportunity to establish your innocence 1" It
reminded him of a form of trial which sus used
at Rome, to determine whether a wall was a
saint or not. On that ocean' an advocate at-
tended ori behalf of the Devil— (Larrghter)—whore
business it was to plead agaiust the Saint, and
dispute and disprove his miracles...( Loughtee.)
—He hoped the Honourable and Learned Grlbile•
man opposite hail a better chord thou Satan—
(Laughter)—and a better paymaster too than the
Exchequer of his Infernal Majesty.—( Load &tighter.)
—The Next question be should answer was, would
there be any thing amiss in expreasino *yin-
why for the popular disasters, in the Add?. es
to the Prince? Certainly nut.—(Hear, hew
ss
He saw that that was pleaug to the Gtillirliiril
opposite—he would tell them why
it was not in-
eluded in the Address before them. It would hare
beeu bad taste to have inserted a declaration of coli•
deletice in an Address to a Prince, who was room..
dined the fattier of his people, sod, of course, was
supposed to sympathize with their sutferisepe Hr
neat undertook to defend the distbiPeel or Earl Et*