The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1826-04-29 00:00:00

CATHOLIC CLAIMS.

Mr. S. RICE said that he rose to present two petitions from the
Roman Catholic. of Ireland, and which were signed by 40,000 per-
sons. l'he petitions were signed by the same individuals; one
complained of the state of the laws regarding the corporations of
that country. and the other that the treaty of Limerick had not
been complied with. He was quite ready to admit that two Acts
had lately passed, which had done much good, but not all the good
which the petitioners had a right to elrm. It was not his (Mr.
Rice's) intention to go further into the subject at present. though
he was perfectly ready to do an, should it he deemed desirable.
Mr. DAWSON said, that the lion. Gentleman (Mr. S. Rice)
would have consulted the interests of the parties better, if he had
not presented their petition. The petitions impugned the character
of the Parliament and the Government, and were calculated to oc.
casion the greatest excitation throughout Ireland. He must ob-
serve, that they were the petitions of the new Catholic Association,
who took those means of keeping up that state of excitation to
which he had alluded ; and if the petition were allowed to pass in
silence, the people of Ireland would say that Parliament acquiescpl
in them. He had never known more hnfair petitions got up than
those, and they were tolerable specimens of how debates were car-
ried on in Ireland, where the oratory and declamation were all on
one side, but the facts, experience, and historical knowledge, on the
other. It was not extraordinary that the petitions in question
'mould come from the Catholic Association, but it was extraordi-
nary that the petitions should be presented without one single per-
son getting up to state the contents of them. lie would state what
the objects of the petitioner, were: their complaint was, that they
were not restored to their rights, agreeable to the treaty of Lime-
tick, which was a violation by the then (Internment, anti that the acts
of that House were equally an act of viol ition at the present day.
Hs would trouble the House while be veil the first article from
that treaty, which stated that the Roman Catholics should enjoy
such privileges in their religion as they had done in the reign of
Charles the Second. The petitioners contended that they had a
eight to vote under that article of the treaty. and stated their reason
for that supposition to be, because their ancestors haul stone so, and
from which right they had been excluded by the filth Parliament.
11, however, he (Mr. Dawson) could prove that Roman Catholics
did not sit in the Houses of Lords and Commons in Ireland, then
be should go s great way to rebut that proposition. He was pre-
pared to shew that, in Charles the Second's time, Roman Catholics
were excluded from every situation of trust, from corporations, and
from sitting in Parliament. As a proof that they could not sit, he
would beg leave to read a short extract from the proczedings of the
Irish Parliament. In Juno, 1143, a Resolution passed both the
HOMO of Parliament of Ireland, which stated, that taking into
serious consideration the state of the country from Popery, all the
Members should be called upon to take the oath of supremacy, and
if any refined so to dab they should be rendered incapacitated
traria sitting therein, eithm, as knight. citizen, or burgess. In
that year there had been a ewe writ issued for a borough, in eon_
sequoia of the expulsion of Mr. Brick, who had refused to take the

•
oath of supremacy, which was a proof that at that time the Goths-
liar did not sit in Parliament. There was no dissolution of that
Parliament until the year 1661, after the restoration of Charles, and
the that Parliament of King Charles had excluded the Catholics
by the enforcement of the Test Oaths. Much stress had been laid
upon the supposed violation of the treaty of Limerick. That
treaty wan sinned on the 3d of October 1691 ; and his Majesty Wil-
liam the Third had promised to procure such further privileges for
the Catholics as should come within the scope of his power. The
treaty. although s'gned, wan not ratified until the sth of April 1692.
and the first Act of the Parliament. subsequently convened, was to
exclude Irish Roman Catholics from seats in the Irish Parliament ;
and that exclusion continued from that period up to the Union.
From all these circumstances, and front the corroborative fact that
no remonstrance was made upon the part of the Catholics, it was
not. lie thought, going ton far to inter that no violation of that
treaty actually took place. A celebrated historian, who had lived
in those times the meant Mr. 51oliartux), and who had occasion to
speak of that Act of Parliament, did not, notwithstanding, complain
of it as being a breach of the treaty of Limerick. It might pass very
well to make such aisertions in the Catholic Association. It might
answer the purpose of speaker' in the assembly to mix.state and to
distort facts to serve their nen purpoaea, but he could assure them
that they could not play the same game in that House. He should
not upon that occasion occupy any furhcr portion of the attention
of the House. having, as he thought, advanced quite enough to
chew that there hail been no violation of the treaty of Limerick.
AILS. RICE said that he hail. In presenting that petition, done,
every thing that he could to avoid provoking a discfission, and he
bad determined not to speak upon the subject, until he found that
the dissuasion was absolutely forced upon him. With respect to the
Catholic Association, he thought if they were violent in their lair.
gauge, that there was at least sonic excuse fir them In the acknow-
!edged fact, that they were smarting under the rod of oppression. '
With regard to the speech of his Bon. friend opposite (Mr. Daw-
son), lie felt happy in being enabled to answer what he had ad.
•anced in the most triumphant manner; and nothing would give
him greater pleasure than to have the opportunity of arguing the
question as a mere matter of law before a Judge. who would have
the power of acting upon the arguments which might appear to,
him the most conclusive. What could be more absurd than for
his Han. Friend to defend his position by quoting foe his authority 1
an act of usurpation of the British Parliament. In the first Par.
liament of James the First there were no less than 98 Catholics out
of 229 Members. The Act which hail been referred to, was the'
30th of Charles the Second ; hut that Act had never passed the
Irish Parliament. and therefore was not law. The argument of
acquiescence upon the part of the Catholics—the Inference drawn
from the fact of their having made no remonstrance—was equally
futile. for they were beaten down and had no hope of satety or
tranquillity. except in unconditional submission. lie would ask
the Hon. Gentleman to refer to the ninth article of the Treaty of
Limerick. Ily that article Catholics were te be subject to no other
oath except that of allegiance, so that evwd if the oath of Supre-
macy had been previously a bar, by that article they were to be ex-
empted from its operation. tic itad an authority to adduce of no
common kind—the authority of Bishop Burnet, who says that the '
Irish, at the Treaty of Limerick, made large demands, incited to do
so by the French, under the confident expectation that they would
be rejected by the English. King 11111;am, however, was so
anxious for the conclusion of the war, that he gave secret instuc-
lions to Generil Ginkle to agree to every thing that the garrison
might propose, so that the French were disappointed. The inha-
bitants of Limerick treated not merely for themselves, but foe all
their countrymen in arms, who were to be indemoified for their
losses, and restored to all the privileges they possessed in the time
of Cherie, the Second. They were to be restored to all the privi-
leges of Rritiah subjects, upon taking the oath of allegiance, with.
nut the oath of supremacy. It also appeared that Parliament had
made a charge against Bing William, of having metaled too much
at the Treaty or Limerick to the Catholic'', upon his own respon-
sibility ; but still the benefits conferred by it upon the Catholics
were unquestioned.
Sir J. NEWPORT thought that such vituperations against the
Catholics as the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Daimon) was in the habit
of indulging in, both in and out of the House, could come front no
quarter with a worse grace than from a person holding an official
situation. He little expected to have ever seen an Irish Member
rising in that Hasse to quote an arbitrary stretch of authority of
the English Parliament at that period, as binding upon the people
of Ireland. He still less expected to see a Member for a northern
county in that si.uation—a Member for a county which had ex-
erted Itself so strettuously, so nobly. and so successfully, to put
down that nefarious usurpation. fie had, however, lived to see
that day, and, in addition to his regret, he had the misfortune to see
in that pereon a Mettiber for whom he had hitherto entertained the
highest respell. He felt assured that the people of Derry would
lament the circumstance as lie did.

Mr. DAWSON denied that he had been the means of provok-
ing the discussion. He had merely quoted historical facts, for the
purpose of conflating the unfounded allegations contained in the
petition. He thought the Hon. Member on the other side (Mr. S.
Rice) had first thrown down the gauntlet. by declaring it to be his
opinion that the treaty of Limerick had been violated. If he ex.
pected that that House was like the Catholic Association, where all
the speaking was upon one side, he would find himself mistaken.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL concurred in the opinion that
the discussion had been provoked by the lion. Member opposite
(Mr. S. Rice). dft had to observe, that it was only recently that
the claims of the Catholics had been preferred to that House upon
the ground of the violation of the Treaty of Limerick. If he
recollected sight, the year 1806 was the first in which their claims
had been so founded. If the arguments of those who had pre-
viously to that period advocated the claims of the Catholics were to
undergo a revision, it would be found that they had never founded
those claims upon the violation of that treaty. He protested against
entering into discussion upon the subject of the violation of the
Treaty of Limerick upon the presentment of a petition, brit if a
motion were made upon the subject, he believed he should find it no
difficult matter to prove that it had not been violated at all.
Mr. Secretary PEEL, who had just then entered the House,
said that nothing could be more inconvenient than attempting to
reply to arguments which he had heard by second-hand report • but
having been present at the latter part of the discussion, he ;but
it
necessary to avow that he could not admit the claim which bad
been set up upon the part of the Catholics. that the privileges to
which they supposed themselves entitled were guarantral to them
by the Treaty of Limerick. He still retained his former opinion
upon the subject of that treaty, and he would once more state, that
three privileges were not withholden in violation of the Treaty of
Limerick. Ile believed that the petitioners themselves felt doubt.
ful of the validity of their claim under that treaty. They quoted
the first article of the treaty, which guaranteed to them all the pri.
'lieges of I 3 • h subjects, connivent with the laws of Ireland.
M'as it meant by this to restore to them all their privileges, or were
they to be limited by the laws of Ireland ? If they construed that
clause, to restore them not merely the exercise of their religion, but
also the right of voting in that House—and if such construction was
correct, why then there was an end of the argument ; but the ques-
tion was, whether such a construction was correct or the contrary,
and when the subject came before the House, he thought he could
show that that treaty could not justify such an inference.
Afters few words from Mr. S. RICE, the petiiwn was ordered to
be printed.
ASg ESSE D TAXES.

Mr. 3IABERLY moved for returns of the gross receipts and
net produce of the Assessed Taxes, from the year 1816 to MA
distinguishing the amount in each year, and the respective bends
under which It was collected; and also stating the expense of col.
letting it in each year.
BRIBERY AT ELECTIONS' BILL.
. . -

Lord J. RUSSELL moved the Order of the Day on the Bribery
at Elections' Bill, in orda to postpone it until the next Session of
Parliament. He wished to have the assistance of Right lion.
Gentlemen opposite in the measure, as be feared unless the mea-
sure unanimously passed that House, it would have but little
thanes in the House of Lords ; and there could be but little hope
of obtaining the assistance he desired in the present Session.
Colonel DAN' IES expressed his regret at the postponement of
the measure, which he thought ought to be taken into immediate
consideration.

Alt. WYNN Raid he was aware of the importance of the sub.
jeet, and would support any effectual measure to correct the evils
complained of.
The Bill was then postponed to next Session.
EPISCOPAL UNIONS BILL.

On the motion of Sir JOHN NEWPORT, the Episcopal
Unions Bill was pmtponed to that day three months.
CRIMINAL JUSTICE BILL.
Mr. PEEL having moved the third reading of the Criminal
Jostics Bill,

Mr. JOHN SMITH wished to call the attention of the Right
Hon. the Secretary for the Home Department to the present sate
of the police of the Metropolis. Ile wished that a Board should
be appointed under the eye of Government. Under the present
systeni great inconvenienee had been experienced in apprehending
offenders; he had himself spent WM. in order to detect persons
who had stolen certain property. lie was unsuccessful in bringing
them to justice, which he did not regret, as it was always unplea-
sant to bring a man to condign punishment; but he thought the
present system was capable of improvement.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said the lion. Member seemed to wish that
the police should be like the Board of Customs or Excise; that there
should be regular gradations, and that the subordinate persons
should be under the control of superiors. He could nut agree in
the propriety of such a change; he did not think it by any means
necessary that the police magistracy should have more power than
the ordinary makistrates ; he had frequent communications with
the different magistrate', and In consequence became acquainted
with the state of their districts. He could not think it would be
preferable to concentrate the police establishment, instead of having
seven or eight districts as at present established ; he did not ima-
gine that it would facilitate the administration of justice. He agreed
with the Hon. Member that there was great inconvenience in de-
tecting criminals ; but how could the difficulty be corrected? The
magistrates had no control over persons who were at a distance: in
extraordinary cases, if they could spare an officer, they always sent
one in pursuit of the criminal ; but the law did not allow magic-
trates to send officers to a distant part of the country. in pursuit of
suspected persons. Tf:e sug.eeations of the lion. Member would
make alterations in the commissions of the prate which Ise could
not approve.
On the motion that the Bill be read a third time,
Mr. G. LA:1113 proposed a clause, that no dilatory plea should
abate or annul an indictment on account of a misnomer, or want of
addition, but that the error or errors should be Immediately cor-
rected by the Court.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that every facility should be given to
bring the guilty to justice, consistent with the security of the in-
nocent ; he had no objection to the clause.
The clause was then read a third time, and added to the Bill by
way of rider.

THE BRITISH PRESS•

WRONGOCS IMPRISONMENT BILL.
SeeretaryPEEL moved that the ‘Vrongotts Imprisonment
Bill be read a third time that day three months.
Mr. P. GRANT said that, as the Right Honourable Gentleman
opposite (Mr. Peel) had said that he void not at that late period of
the Session give the subject that consideration which its importance
demanded, he had no objection to postpone the Bill.
Mr. PEEL said the Honourable Member had acted with great
liberality in conseitting to the postponement of so important a bill ;
at present he had so much to do lie could not attend to the subject.
The Honourable Member should obtain notice of its introduction
next Session of Parliament, and he could then introduce his own
clauses into the Bill.
After • few words from Mr. Abcrcromby, the Bill was postponed
to next Session.

CHARIND.CROSS IMPROVEMENT BILL.
31r. ARBUTII NOT having moved the third reading of the
Charingscropp Improvement Bill,
Mr. HONHOUSE satd it was of great importance for those per-
il-ma whose Istmees were to be taken down, to know at what precise
time an arrangvnent would be made with those persons.
Mr. ARBUTHNOT said that, if the Bill passed into a law, no
time should be lost in carrying it into effect, and obtaining posses-
sion of those houses. It had lwen suggested to widen the Strand as
far as Exeter 'Change, and the Duke of Bedford and the Mar-
quis of Exeter had agreed to the projected alteration, as they
thought it would b: for the public improvement. He begged to con.
rect a mistake which had gone abroad, that he had said that the
Marquis of Exeter was disinclined to allow any change for the pub-
lic good : all lie had said was, that private property should be re-
spected; but the communication which he had had with that,
Noble Lord, proved to him that he had no objection to a change
which would be an improvement. The Committee up stairs had
acted with the remelt attention, and had obtained every assistance
from the Members for Westminster, to whose suggestions the Com-
mince paid every attention.
The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
Lord Al HAMILTON presented petitions from two parishes in
Scotland against any alteration in the Currency of Scotland.
Mr. Secretary PEEL brought in a Bill for regulating the law re-
lative to Stealing horn Gardens and Hot.houses, which was read a
first time, and ordered to herein) a second time on Monday next.
EAST INII/1:3 WRITERS' BILL.
On the motion of Mr. WYNN, the House resolved itself into a
Committee on the East India Writers' Bill.
Mr. DENMAN said that no experiment had been ever tried
with greater success than the East India College. It was thought
necessary that certificates of qualification should be given front the
College. Suppose the College could not supply persons sufficient
to fill up vacancies, the certificates should be incorporated in the
Bill. Very opposite opinions were entertained of the merits of the
College. Mr. Hume, whose absence from indisposition he sincerely
regretted, thought that establishment a complete failure, while
others thought it a great institution. Ile wished to know the rules
by which the College was regulated, without which he would object
to the Bill which would establish the College. Ile would wish to
learn from the Right Honourable Secretary for Foreign Affairs if
any security would be afforded to persons who should go out without
a certificate that they would not be looked upon with suspicion.
Ile felt an interest in the question, and certainly knew that very
great ornaments of the country had been educated in the College.
Such names as Mackintosh and Malthus would cast credit on that
establishment. From their exertions abuses had been prevented ;
but occasional rebellions broke out among the students, which was
not to he wondered at, when th t age at which they entered was eon.
sidered, and as they thought that they had a vested right from their
being students of the College. The Honourable Gentleman
concluded with observing, that he thought he should not have
performed his duty to the public if he had not stated Ilia opinion
on the Bill.

Mr. ; I RANT said, white ter abuses there were to be complained
of, and doubtless there had hero great ones, he could not agree
with the Hon. and Learned Gentleman that they proceeded from •
want of education., In his opinion they were rather the result of
the system. As a practice! man, be could say that the Civil Ser-
vice in India had not been improved by the establishment of this
College. One of the most distinguished servants of the public in
the Indies, who had been educated at the College, had expressed a
similar opinion. He agre'd with what a Noble Lord (Lord Gren-
ville), in the House of Lords. had stated should he the system of
education pursued. He should support the present Bill, because
he felt convinced that either the old establishment must be enlarged,
or the present course must be adopted.
Me. Secretary CANNING made a few observations, but the
Right Hon. Geptleman spoke in so colloquial a tune, that they were
not audible in the gallery. We understood him to say that the
country had a right to take some security that individuals who were
to be intrusted with such important duties should possess high qua.
lineations. lie thought there were no means of taking this security
excepting by examinations. He was inclined to support the Bill,
because he thought it necessary to have a different institution.
Were they to corn:nem now, he should perhaps recommend that
the College be place t under the superintendance and local supervis
sion of one of the IliAveraities. 'fbe was certainly advantage to
be gained by those who were to he educated mixing generally with
the mher youth tit England. He gave his honour that the present
measure did not contemplate getting rid of the College.
After a few observations from Mr. Lushington, Alr. T. Baring,
and Colonel Millie,
Mr. C. WYNN said he had introduced this Rill merely as a
temporary measure, to provide for present necessity, and he did not
consider himself as hiving given any pledge us to what course he
might adopt hereafter. When they had obtained the experience
which would be afforded by the present measure, they might pro-
ceed to adopt any new course on better grounds than such as Dow
existed.

The Bill was then committed.
Mr. BROODEN brought up the Report, which wu ordered to
be received on Monday next.
EAST INDIA NAVAL FORCE RILL.
_ .

-.
On the order of the day that the East India Naval Force Bill be
read a second time,
Mr. BRIGHT proceeded to complain of the manner in which
India affairs were conducted, so that no accurate information could
be obtaired on the subject. The very last despatches at which he
looked were not official, and thus no satisfactory knowledge could
be procured. He had then in his possession a newspaper of last
week, in which the Gazettes were nor authenticated as they ought
to have been. He was happy to hear that the India Company was
able to provide for the expenses of the war. But money was not
the only thing to be regarded in that respect. A great power was
formed by the operations in India, and it was proper that thiscoun-
try should not lose the control of that influence which was so pro-
duced. He thought the Bill involved a great Constitutional quer.tion,
and that the House should retain the power of investigating East
India affairs, from which so many important results might be ex-
pected. if the Bill should pass, it was incumbent that the funds
of the East India Company to prosecute the war should be ascer-
tained; for it would be ridiculous to invest the Board of Control
with discretio t over means which dud not exist. He hoped that
the serious consequences which he apprehended would be averted.
He should at all events do his ditty in calling their attention to the
subject, and taking the sense of Parliament on it when the proper
opportunities should occur.
Mr. W. WYNN said that the Bill was grounded on what
he conceived to be accredited principles. It was well under.
stood that th• expenses of the war should be defrayed out of the
territorial acquisitions of the Company, according to the provisions
lit the Charter, which established the modes and regulations to be
adopted in times of peace and of war. His Right lion Friend
(the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had explained the matter fully
when the Estimaos were before the !louse.
After a few words from Mr. Bemire and Sir JOHN NEW-
roar, the Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be commit-
ted for Monday n?xt.
PETT SESSIONS (IRELAND) BILL.
The House tnen went into a Committee on the Petty Sessions
(Ireland) Bill ; after which the House resumed, the report was
received, and ordered to be taken into further consideration on
Tuesday next.