The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1819-12-25 00:00:00

MERCHANTS' PETITION.

Mr. IltlItlitt11:cd, he held in has hand a Petition
which had been tutrueted to him to present to the
House : it was a Petition from severs' most res.
spectable Merchants of the City of London, pur-
porting. in substance. to be a reprereutation of the
streets raw! difficulties under winch the cowmen.
cid, trading, mud manufacturing interests of the
country were at present labouring. He proceeded
to say, that the Petitioners, feeling this state of
things very strongly. respectlifsly begged leave
ta call the attention of the Hopes thereto—preyed
it would take into consideration, and institute an
iliqgiry iuto, the causes of the existing general
distress. and embarrassment, in order that,' by be-
big put is possession of the causes, it might be
enabled to adopt such practicable remedies as
might be calculated to afford permanent anal gene-
ral relief. Such, the Flom «ember proceeded,
was the Petition. It was nut. he could lissom the
House, sent there from any factious views tar party
motives ; neither did the Petitioners wish to latter-
three with, oritilerrupt the course of measures pur-
sued by his Majesty's Ministers; but they un-
doubtedly had so.tie expectatioh that their Pallier'
would not meet with either disrespect or Mateo-
tiou•--because, in the course of s discussion in the
present Sersioit, loran inquiry into the state of the ma-
sinfocturing districts, more thou one Member of the
Adininistratino hart said, that, ifs proposition were
made fur a bona fide itivestigtvion of the state of our
cuminerce unit trade, without the introduction of
extraneous topic-, they would not be indisposed to
listen to it. The tot.pititeB adopted by Parliament
fur securing the grace of the country, had his COS*.
dial approbation ; but he thought that, in com-
mon with the Petitioners, he hod a right to expect
that Parliament and his Moje.ty's Ministers would

:

not be averse to niquirion, into throw rouses %illicit.
as he conceived. had produced the existing distress.
fie had received nn iiirtructions Or suggestions from
the Petitioners, to point out any specific measure, as
likely to !resell or Ir• move the evils they hail de-
scribed; but he iimuld beg leave to say for himself
that it hail occurred to him, that in the cootie of such
an Merlon:anon m was desired, it might be advisable
for his Majest3's Ministers and Parhament to turn
their eyes to that system of severe restrictiohe vet
our commercial law, wuioh ntglit have been very
well adapted for a time of cur, but certainly not
for one of peace. An alteration in this syrti w•a
one source from whence it struck him considerable
relief 'Meta be derived. P:hltsps :don it might he
ch.cover,-41. gist some of the articles esaferrin; a
monopoly on the East India Company might be
telexed with giro( advantage to the alai eni, witti that
the right of trade bet wren China anti Europe, sable:l
,the now exclusively enjoyed, arid from ohm!' they
1,90•404.,brfit.**.:. be10g...0104A, 09 outlet •
Aniericau flag, might be very fitualciaillextein.
to other traders. Ile was not than taismat to enter
the large field of discussion which the question of
our currency presented, neither was he desirous of
retracing the steps which the Legislature hail taken.
not of abrogttint laws which were nn opeiation ;
but he certainly did conceive, that, without
fringing on the principle of these laws, there might
be modifications of them which would afford con-
siderable relief—ss to inquire whether there might
not be some modification in the tfiliCifliellte resin ct-
ing payments in bullion, and whether the first pro-
vision on that head might not be expediently ex-
tended over the whole term of those payments. lie
also thought that it would be a material improve•
meat if, at the period of the hat payment laid down
iu the law, the Bank should have the option of
paying in silver or gold. Having ventured shortly
to state what in his view might form some of the
leading grounds of the proposed inquiry, he should
now proceed to name some of those which he was
decidedly of opinion ought not to occupy the at.
tendon of the Houle. Ile alluded especially to
many of the topics introduced iuto Ole speech of
his lion. Poirot! the Member for Portarlitigton
(Mr. Ricardo). He considered it as a dangerous
experiment to go into a Committee on the Corm
LW!, still less did he believe that the et:Sting dif.
ticolties were imputable to the Poor Laws—with
as little favour did he look spun a *theme of lii.
Hon. Friend for the paytneitt a the natinnel debt.
It appeared to him extremely unsafe. it had nil
even the merit of originality, it having been heard
of many years ago—aud he ventured to say, that
the Chancellor of the Exchequer wattle Bekaa....
ledge that nut a single leer elapsed Without some
visionary plan of ihat description bringimbinstted to
him. He heti slightly touched on videos outlets.
fan. well calculated, as hr believed, to bectni:e thus
subjetts of an extensive isivestigatuiti ; sod he
hoped he had said enough tordiosieee his Majesty'.
Minister, it,,d particularly the Right lion. Gentle.
man whom he saw in his place (t.lr. Vansitiart)„ to
take the matter into. heir most serious considers-
Cots. He Dilated that, after the recess, they would
come down prepared to submit some specific propo.
sition ; or if otherwise. that they would not (oppose
the appointment of a Cuvutiitee.
The Petition was then her light up and reed.

03 the quesbuto that it lie ti; the table—

Mr. GAENTELL said, it was not his intention Its
follow his lino. Friend, for so he hoped he would
give him (cure tie cull
,b. o him, ,
he hid
boundless field of discu into which
entered, pietieularly in so thin a noose, ond ins
the last day but one before 'Parliament %vs, to
adjourn fur the recess. He thunglit that f.llowitig
the example set bins would serve fur nothing but
to suhject the Houle to incroavenit
Ile had no cotnplaint indeed to ineke of Itit. Hon.
Gentlemao—.is a Member of I, ~imortent he hail
presented a Petition which he bad been ropested
to lay furore the House, and Ins own tissue was not,
be believed, signed to it; but he had n ri4lll m com-
plain of those individuals who. ondes.standitig as
they said they did the causessaif the distress whiols
was felt universally through the empire—and of
which none was better convinced that, himself—atoll
knowing the means by which it could be.ieliev'td.
had suffered a whole month to pass away. while
Parliament was sitting, without einkitig•an rat-rt to
effect ail good, anti how came oil the ite:y eve of
its rising, to tnato/he it, he should say, with-slog-
gestions, of which, if it hail hero possessed at art
earlier period, IllUltrij twrvlCe Might be re, tiered
to ihnottountry.—filear,. helm* —lle.harl Duly yes.
teaks heard in the House:. for the first time, with
'considerable sarpri,e, Shutt Peeitie.n,, purport..
ing to be from the :.ierchaithkof the City of Leos
don, had beeu put into the *ids of a Member -ss
the rather, becaa.e he had Messed the whale of
Wednesday in the city► and hash converged with a
great number of merchants andlsac ken there of great
eminence, and also the early part of yesterday, Withw
out learning one word concerning any Petition or
Remonstrance from the Metchants of London till
he had come into the House. Thinking, however,
thatwhat had ,n might liner been the effect
of sceideut, lie limit made it his business to go into
the city this mornith, Si' mak,• sit inquiry into the
affair, the result 0* oliielt be should communicate
to the House. He had to State, then, that having
had a conversation oil the subject with many highly.
respectable merchants and traders, Rot our of them
had signed it except one (of *limn a word by and
by), nor had heard • word of it till last night or this
morning. and that in the way shut what passea in
this House is usually carninuincated to the
except the individual to whom lie kid alluded, and
smother who had been applied to to put his signs.
lure to it. but declined. The latter Gentleman, a
merchant of the very first respectability in the
Russia trade, said lie had been applied to in a
greet harry yesterday evening, as he was lea,-
tog town, to sign the Petition. He asked
Mpg was the nature of it 3—He was answered,
web I it is a Petition from the west rod of the
comes from Laid Caploreogh."--.(4

r ;

ulas 11,,p0i Lit bird .‘iatihors•

informant added, that the reason for
imiciuming it was. that the Member for Shrews-
bury (Mr. Bennett) had submitted a motion for •
Cotritiaittee to go into an inquiry, partly political
and rarity commercial, it was therefore refused ;
bat that ;Ministers had pledged themselves to agree
to a propovition for a Committee, if it were strip.
I,..d.•esf every thing political. Ili+ Friend very
iir .porly replied, s' Theo, if it coiner from any
Morister, I won't sign it.° Ile then called upon
the Gentleman who, as he had stated, had sign-
ed it, and who was one of the wealthiest oleo
in England, perhaps in Europe. He told him
11,1'; Grenfelt) that it s.. " It mere milk mad
water Perititor"—(ileor. 1 hear)—and that
it 'hot been got up in the way such Petitions
usually were. 011 iisquiriog from him further
what motive Ire had in signing it, and what was ex-
pected from it, he had received so answer in writ-
ing!, which he should read with the permission of
the !loose. It was to the following effect :
" 1 dirtied the Petition In which you refer at the desire of
a Gent Ii man with whom 1 haul considerable dealings, sod who
urged me to co yesterday and sign it, uharrving that it
ovoid be too We after too o'clock. 1 thought it ritlicti-
loqme-(A lnuok)—hot harmless, and did out hesitate to gra-
tify-the Gentleman who had made the request by putCnc
lag gnaw is it. Bet on more fully tindersianiling since the
iohject 0( it, 1 sin vet y soriy 1 hate done so, and if sorb a
thing west now pearliest:de, 1 should ihiuk it very desirable
that My 00010. were withdrawn (ruin it, particularly if it is
meaAt to have any influence on the mcasures adopted by
Paritsioneur for the restimpliust or cash payments."
(I ken) —This was the substatice.of what he had
hexed ; and he pot it to the House, whether inch a
Petition desetved to be considered as the Petition of
slur Me it:bawl. of the City of London ?—[Here Mr.
living observed, it was the Petition of those who
s ;oiled it.)—lt was, Mr. Grenfell continued, so was
. .Pty Petition ; but he asked, whether, but for these
dibservat• ,it would not have gone forth to the
politic as the Petition of the Merchants of Lontiott ?
If the lion. Gentleman hail confined himself to vile
cr Iwo suggestions, such us the removal of the re-
strictive laws against trade, or an extension of the
trade with China, hr might have soi:robed that the
petitioners really believed that the Petition might
some benefit to trade, but in the latter part
of his-opt...eh the murder came out—(A laugh )
from duo it plainly appeared, that the Petition was
sent in fur the purpose, and for tin other purpose, than
c 1 -subverting those arrangements which had been
made between the country and the Bank of Dig-
Iml for the resumption of cash payments. The
cutrency was its °Nee I. He told his Hon. Friend
that it proceeded from parties who felt themselves
i rippled in their speculations by the measures of
I t•t Session [Mr. Irving here intimateri that he
koew some of the Petitioners]. He did not deny
it. but lie hoped that notwithstanding lie might
saute what was Ilia belief. Ile believed, then,
I; at the Petition proceeded from persollll who,
I.' ding themselves hampered and crippled by the
preparations for payment iu cash, iii their trading
To-ratio:tr, and having before overtraded, which
ts species of gambling, and having been beaten
on the question of the currency, now from interest
anti vanity endeavoured to persuade the country to
r v rt to what in his opinion half ruined it, and which,
11 restored, would utterly rum it. The names to it
IstrZ. but few ; the table w is in no danger of being
esetloaded with theist. He should sit down, me-
iteaiiiig that lie believed die whole object of the
Petitioners was to destroy the financial arrange-
-I,;.aits for the return to a metallic currency.
Nib IRVING defended the character and motives
f the Petitioners. He said that the names sub-
sciilred to it were neither roan in number nor eati-
ng Ilion, but from their wealth and number entitled
to the highest consideration of the House. He
shvaild be as unwilling as coy man to disturb the
plain title of the enuctmente for the restoration of a
metallic currency. The subject, lie had hoped, was
date too grave for ridicule. It was an expression of
the opinion of a very important body in the commu-
ity—a body who gave the greatest impetus to the
iodustry of the people, and who may be said to put
lit operation the whole labour of the State. Such
a body were undeserving of ridicule, when they
came forward for the public good. ‘Whatever may
Le toe ultimate fate of the prayer of the petitioners,
I-e had dour his duty in laying it before the House,
nod lie earnestly trusted his Majesty's Ministers
woof(' not refuse inquiry into NO important • sub-
j rel.— (Hear, /tear.)
Mr. JOHN Smicu said he would state some cir-
cumstances which were only known to himself re-
pealing the origin of this petition. It was with ex-
Imam regret that lie heard the observattuns of his
Hass. Friend ( Mr.Gresifell), and sure he was, that ig-
i onside of the fact only iuduced these ob ions,
fur he knew his Hun. Friend too well to believe
Itim capable of saying an unkind word of a single
irsliridual—lie knew that he was utterly incapable
hurting the feelings of any ant—he knew that
.lar was the last mattilaving who would do it, and lie
felt cotivinced that, after what he had now to say,
Hon. Friend *alai express regret for the obser-
....bona into which lie bad been hastily betrayed.
its I ad now to inform his lion. Friend, and the
klesetre„ that this petitioit originated with a
Mitt of large fortune—a mass, than whom, if
sister be one more than 'mother less likely to
-enter iota speculations, he was that person, or
who, if lie did enter into them, possessed more
ditniile memos of meeting them out of Ins writ
piepdrty. With such a person, then, did this Peti-
tion originate. As to the Noble Lord opposite
Cardereagh), he was a perfect strauger to
the circumstances in which this Petitiou
utigi-
i sled. The Gentleuntti who first thought of it
upon him (Mr. Smith) on Tuesday or Wed-
,. daisday brat (lie believed the latter day), and then
a p was thee Petition started. The Gentleman was
d at. lie believed. a 'whitedl character either in or
not of the iutererts of his Majesty's Ministers. Ile
mated his IZIONDUI fur thinking such a Petition most
.desirable, but in those rearons not woe word was
said of the bollion question.—(Near,

place, many circumglances respecting the mode
of education adopted, would have -been found
well entitled to observation. The Gentleman
felt • strong impression, that, if an inquiry iuto
the cause of the present state of distress were
undertaken, some, at least, of the evils which
afflicted the country may be mitigated. This
was his impression, and not nosy political feeling
whatever, either as to Ministers or the bullion
question, for he was a man 'these situation could
not be affected either by the one or the other.
Fully according as he (Mr. Smith) did in the
sentiments of the Gentleman to whom he alluded.
it was quite apparent, that for the Petition to have
any chance of bring efficacious, it must he pre-
pared and signed by as snarly persons as possible
without delay. So pressing was the hurry between
Wednesday and this day. that lie could assure his
Hon. Friend, that the Hon. Member who present-
ed it to the House knew nothing about it uwsil yes-
terday. When the C;entletnan who first spoke
about the Petition had drawn it up, in the plain
and forcible manner in which it was expressed, the
consideration then was by whom it should he pre-
sented to the House. Ile (Mr. Smith) first thought
of the Member for Taunton (Mr. Baring), whose
talents and authority on such subjects had so na-
tural a weight in that House.—(Heor, hear./—
But that Member was DM in town, or to be found
at the moment. The next person thought of was
his Hon. Friend (Mr. Ellice); but to make the
matter short, the Petition was in the end handed to
the lion. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Irving). Such
was its history, snd no • his Hon. Friend must be
satisfied its origin had nothing to do with the bul.
lion question. With reference to the ',ergot's who
signed it, his Hon. Friend, lie knew, could pot
have read their names when lie made his remarks
upon their act ; of he had read the names no man
would have been more perfectly sensible that such
observations could not, in the slightest degree. have
had reference to a set of men of such c (((((( etercial
rank and great respectability.—/Hear.)—He (Mr.
Smith), before lie set down, begged to express his
aiixious hope that Ministers would seriously con-
eider the recommendation of the Petitioners. They
had already passed their general measures for the
peace of the country, and lie now earnestly sub-
mitted to them the consideration of this last propo.
sition, as being one calculated to excite at least a
ray of hope for the suffering and distressed people
throughout the kingdom.—/lieut.)
Mr. RICARDO rose, and expressed the great ea-
tisfaetion lie felt at the application plow inside in
behalf of so respectable a body as die Petitioners.
But the inquiry, if adopted, to be effectual, must
be a general one, and lie could hardly see how
they could avoid reconsidering the subject of the
Bullion Laws, and the effect which had arisen from
them upon the price of bullion, since their enact-
ment. Various causes lie knew had been assigned
for this fluctuation in the price of bullion, hut lie
thought them all inadequate to account fur the dif-
ference. lie was happy in agreeing with his Hon.
Friend in the opinion that au inquiry into the stale
of the country ought no longer to be protracted.
If the present opportunity were allowed him, be
should like to explain some mistakes and misap-
prehensions which had gone abroad respecting the
suggestions he threw out on a former night.
It was said that he had proposed a plait for the li-
quidation of the initiould debt, which had tint the
limit of originality. He was not aware, that,
when he stated that plan, he had claimed for him-
self the merit of being its inventor ; he knew that,
previous to his existence, there had been plaits of
this, as well us of other descriptions, submitted for
public consideration, with a view to the payment of
the national debt. He thought that he might have
been permitted, without claiming any originality
for himself, to have adverted to the plans of others,
wherever they appeared to him wise and 'billowy—
aod to have expressed, with the modesty that be-
came him, his own opinion of them to the House.
—(Cries of Hear,frout boils sides of the House )
No matt was mote aware that) he was of the value
of the time of the House. or had a less disposit
to press his own unimportant observations upon
them ; but as an busiest man, so long as he was a
Member, lie humbly felt he had a right to express
his opinion upon a subject to which lie had devoted
as much attention as :le was capable.—l flear.)—
I ii looking at the financial state of the country, the
first thing that struck him as entitled to primary
consideration, was the inadequacy of the capital of
the country, us it was now applied, to meet the
public or national debt. Then came the cute.
sideration of the cause of this upprreist de-
ficiency ; and how the difference happened now
it' the menus of the cuuntry, as compared
with former periods. Its reviewing this sub-
ject, he thought it u clear principle, that when
profits were high in other countries, and com-
paratively low in this, there was a natural ten-
dency in the capital, where the low profit was, to
remove itself to the country where its value was
higher. This lie thought was a principle as clearly
capable of demonstration as any problem in Euclid.
He would then ask, whether the existing system
of legislation was a wise our, respecting this state
of capital—and whether the movements of the Le-
gislature bad not rather a tendency to aggravate
thew to niotigate the evil. There were various
instances in which lie thought their acts had hail
this evil lelidessey. First, the Corn Bill, be was
clearly of opipliuu, had aggravated the evil it was
applied to remedy. That was his upitoopo, rod
however it might be received. he was bound to
state it.--(//ear, hear.)—lt aggravated the evil
by its tendency to raise the price of en essential
necessary of life—this increase of price necessarily
raised the price if labour, and that, as a necessary
conseqUelllT. ditisisiished the profit of the agricultu-
rist. The effect of this was then an increase of the
evil. With respect to the national debt, his wont-
tuesidation of the plan fur its liquidatiun was pre-
mium ed chime-neat—it may be so, but neverthe-

he think so ? Because he saw the state of
things daily withdrawing capital from the coun-
try—the obvious effect of this was to absolve the
capital so removed, from it liability to pay its
proper share of the national debt. It not only,
in this manner, absolved itself from its respon-
sibility, but it threw an additional burden pro
Santo upon the capital not so withdrawn ; and slid
not this aggravate the evil ? What appeared to
him wise to be done in the present time was. that
not a moment should be lost in taking am account of
the capital, while yet it remained in a considerable
and adequate portion in the country, and that the
amount of capital so estimated, should he cl,
to get rid of the debt. He would willingly bear
whatever imputation of extravagance was cast upon
this recommendation, but he dial not are any great
or insuperable diffieulties, if once fairly and fully
entered into, of its accomplishing the ultimate
end, and giving relief to the country. It was a
gigantic plan, he admitted—(Hear, hear/—but
If he saw no better way of meeting the evil. The
payment might he extended to four. five, or more
years, it might he even done through the medium
of a paper currency. issued for the specific mud piers
ticulur purpose. Suppose a cheque were given to
each of the public creditors, and that tins were pay.
able for the taxer, uo great demand or variation
would t hen affect the regular circulating, medium
of the country. As to the free trade or protection,
or alteration of protections, which a Cuintuittee upset
the general question might hereafter recommend,
it %as impossible to say any thing with preciaioo.
They might discover the wis.lotn of getting rid of
misty of the present shackles upon trade. But
these changes could never be effected so as 10 beue.
tit the people at large, by looking at the particular
regulations affecting merely one, two, sir three
traders ; it most be by the proper examination of
the whole system, and by a slow, anal gradual, and
deliberate alteration of that system, where its parts
were faunal to require it, the alterations must be
made by slow degrees, and upon deliberate consi-
deration and demonstration of their mcespity.—
(Hear. heur.)—lie also thought the Committee
should be empowered to see it oilier prohibitions
than those generally metitioneal ought mitt to be re-
considered—for instance, the C Laws. Why
should corn, more than wine, or cloth. or any other
amcle, be subject to such regulations ? On the
qoaestiou of the cut renry, perhaps, it Mild be as
well to let the Bank go tin selling bullion Irma
they were hound to pay at the Mint pace. This
would be to break the fall, and go gradually anal
without abruptness to the beneficial end. The only
moditicetoon he should think wise to adapt, would
he to permit the Bunk to go on pa•jitig in bid:ion,
and not ill coin. Why was the expensive medium
of coin to be adopted, while paper, under a proper
system, might be devised to sneerer the sane end ;
while the public might have * paper, secured at .1
regulated value, and convertible at will into metal-
lic properly. The Baok would then have the profit
arising out of the interest of their paper, NO long as
their real capital commanded its tit culation ; and
the public. with the same security foor the real
. value of the ctreulating medium. would be *raved
the expense of coin. The Ilan. Nleuitier (.N r.
Irving) had expressed his opinion that it would
be destrable to adopt we- circidat meolitiniii. Tor
this opinion he could tiot give his sesent —co oar from
thinking it desirable to edam such a proposition,
he would sly, that if carried lino effect, its operation
would be to bring back the country from a elate or
civilization to one of comparative barbarism. The
!greet object of a currency was, that at should be as
invariable as possible. If there were but one cir-
culating medium, it would he of course open only
to one variation. If there were two, there would be
the liability of • double variation, and the option
of selecting one of two legal tenders; so that there
would be a double operation exposed to ',compound
variation as well us tincerteinty. It was =parade to
have any standard, whether of gold or silver, with-
out a varialion. IJs opinion was decidedly in
favour of buying but one metal. The Committee
@Louts! have his cordial support. It might lead to
good, soul. as lie thought. to Ito possible tiojitry.
Mr. EIN LAY Phileil, that he had made inquiries
respecting this Petition, and had ascertained that
its character was pretty much as had beets retire-
vented. It was signed, he admitted, by many ae-
speciable individuals. But it was equally clear it
was without the signature of many respectable
bankers awl merchains, who hid, he believed, pro-
nounced • pretty broad 01.1111911 0(1011 the but.
lion question. The Petition, therefore, was without
the authority of the general backers and merchants;
it had not emenoited from a public meeting, and
was only entitled to attention from its individual
sig-
natures. With reference to its prayer to matitute an
inquiry into the cause of the manufacturing and
commercial diatresses, it sear obvious that vu. coin-
preliesasive a subject must embrace inbuieliae
iuter-
eats. A more difficult inquiry could not possibly
be undertaken. As to what Government could du
in questions of cominerce, lie thought the princi-
ple clear, that as much freed 'should be allowed
to trade as could possibly accord with the stability
of a country. Ile did not believe that the present
Government were indifferent to the that:rhea
which prevailed. Ile had supported their late mea-
sures fur the peace and tranquillity of the country,
because lie thought it was vt fur the interest of
the working classes that their attention should be
turned to domestic industry, and withdraws' from
the delusions which so unfortunately possessed them.
hear.)—No delusion could be more fatal
to them than that which inculcated the Polly°.
shier° of the Government to relieve them in every
practicable manner. Nothing was easier than to
state general principles of trade; but the great
difficulty was in their practical upplicatimi to the
fluctuating commercial relations of the country.
He could not concur in some of the causes as-
signed for the ',rearm difficulties. In his optimism,
the princtpel cause arose front over speculating,

•
of life in Germany, in other parts of Europe, and
in America, in each of which places the want of
demand was such as to rtbo ttttt 1 upon the people
here, and cut up that foreign demand which was
so essential to their intererts. Nq man could deny
that the labouring classes mint he maintained out
of one of three sources: first, out of their own Is-

hour ; secondly, out of the assessments or con.
trilitstions of others; thirdly, out of advances made
to them by the State. The last of these would
not surely be rec.immended. The second con-
tributed as much as possible, and the first
was, at present, even inadequate. The dis-
tresses of the poor of Sz•ntlanil were greater
than those here, because they hail not the benefit
of the same assessments. The Hon. Gentleman
them commented upon the plan of relief propounded
in Lord Liverpool's letter to the Duke of Ha-
milton, of the portico's!, of which he approved.
Reverting to the Committee of general inquiry. re-
Collienentled by the Petition, he must say lie could
not anticipate from it much practical good. It was
to impose a mighty task. The Corn Laws must go
into it ; the Poor haws most fullow—and, as if
these were not enough. the Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Ricardo) must throw in a 400'1 dose of the bullion
quest .—(4 /augh J—lle concluded by saying
that he would cordially support any measure which
would trail to practical g I. 31 result which he
feared would not follow from so momentous ail in-
quiry as that propostil by the Petition.—(Hear.)
Mr. GitEN FELL, iu explatiati -n, rope to dioclsim
the slightest intention of personal disrespect to.
wards any of the Gentlemen who hail sigued this
Petition. If he hail said any thing having such a
tendency, of which lie was not at all aware, he was
extremely sorry for it. Usitil within the lost ten
minutes he hail not teen the Petition, nor the very
respectable names subscribed to it. The obseiva.
'lolls he had mole merely referred to the sudden
manner in which the Petition had been got up, and
tarried about for signatures.
Mr. K. Duuchas said, that his Hon. Friend
(Nlr. Finlay) need not have been under any appre-
hension that this Petition would have been ascribed
to the general merchants and bankers of London,
when on the face of it it only purported to be that of
the very respectable persons who hod signed it,
With respect to the Bills " for securing the peace
and tranquillity of the country," it was surely not
too much fur the country to expect, that after the
Government had put down distiffectiou, they should
turn their attention to an investigation of the causes
which had led to both. No Bills could secure
permanent tranquillity unless the distresses of the
people were slut inquired into, and some means, if
possible, devised to give effect to the industry of
the people. The House would recollect that the
pm 1813 was one great period of distress and dis-
aff-ction ; 1817 was another of increased distress
and inereasiog disaffection ; 1819 brought with it
still snore distress, and still increasing disaffection,
to such an extent, indeed, that Ministers thought
it right, for the public tranquillity, to enact such
sots/tires as might be said to tear asunder the
whole institutions of the country. He concluded
lay cot** recommending tip me inquidmuld
take price into the state of thiXgs which Wed to
such result'.
Mr. FIN LAY explained.
BUOUGHAM rose and said, that he would
not follow the preceding speakers into the large
and comprehensive subjects to which their obser-
vations applied. Ile could not but lament that his
Hots. Friend (%lr. Grenftll) should have given
vent to su many observations, which had no pos.
siole application to the persona who signed the
Petition. How could his Honourable Friend
have-said that eighty merchants of tare first re-
spectability in London were ass unti-bullion party ?
%Volt it lair to throw this stigma upon them,
and to say of sonic of the greatest merchants
sod largest capitalists in Europe, that their object
was to indulge in boundless speculatioits without
capital ? Ile lamented that his lion. Friend should,
in his too great zeal about the bullion and Batik
question, have cast these impututions on men who
cooliexion with the Bank or the bullion
tpiesinni, as insinuated by his Honourable
Friend, bill many of whom were, on the cows
rein', the brat supporters of that question, some
in Parliament, and one of whom hid actually
been a Member of the Bullion Committee.
A o the signatures was that of his worthy
friend, Mr. Mdcaulry. as respectable as any
man living, uocomiected with any angry pus,
lines, who had the clearest and soundest views of
that importaut question, whose name, as well as
others, refuted the surmise dooms out against them.
But %that would the House think, when to this very
Pntitinm they would fit d the name of his Hon.
'Friend's own brother—one of the Gentlemen. of
course, to whom these surmises applitl. The Pe.
titomers wanted to see if Parliament meant to in-
quire into the distresses of the country. But, alas I
they ouiy saw them 1111/01 coercive laws, without at-
lelllpling 10 investigate the causes, or, at trait, some
of the causes which were intimately connected
with floe circumstances which bad led to the
necessity of those laws. The Government could
mot too soon look to this inquiry. While on
the subject, he would say, that he had been asked
if he meant to move fur an inquiry into the coin.
mercial distresses of the country. The question,
hr itilagilit4l, was put from the accidents' circum-
stance of his having submitted a mutimi on the
state of the nation two years ago. To this he
would reply, that he bat' no such intention. And
first, fur this reason, that the motion he made
had no reference to party topics, nor the then
existing discontents ; yet lie could not prevail
upon Ministers to give it any other aietwer (lieu
passing to the Orders of the Dity. He tould out,
therefore, have any expectation Goo a *notion coin-
ing from his side of the [louse. Amid further, it was
his opinion, that the only effectual inquiry which
could be undertaken with any hope of success in the
distresses

present say. As to the bullion question, he tli,ugl
it should be allowed to rest ; nothing could he
more fatal than any opinion that Parliament meat t
to retrace their netts on that subject : such a tic.
tion would shake the confidence of the country.
IVith reference to the trade laws, he agreed with
his Hon. Friend (Mr. Ricardo). that they ought to
be maturely and deliberately, considered, and
those changes brought about be gradual loaf iina-
flogs means. Ile wished his Hon. Fuel it had not
restated his idea about the repayment
of the n
tionsl debt. He had the utmost revereoce fur Inc
Hon. Friend. av the greatest oracle upon mat
points of political economy, but on this he cool,l
never thiok with him. The proposition hail n. ,
the merit of novelty ; it was one Ittsiolre,l yea:
since it had beets proposed by Mr. Iltitcho , .
and every year since, he supposed, it had found
way from one speculator through another into (hr..
bureaus of successive Chancellors of the Exche-
quer. 'rite last time he saw it in pr'or, was to o
pamphlet of the late Bishop of Llandatt's ; it was
in the form of a speech intended to be spoken ri
the other H00t.., and which was not the most fa-
vourable specimen of the abilities aorl learning of
that most respectable personage. lle wished his
Hon. Friend's motion 114,1 been only intended to b,..1
spoke's ; for, in his ()pillion. the effect of the pie,.
would be neither more nor less than this, to throw
the whole real and per, al property of the country
for years into the hands of solicitor., cone. y.
sneers, and tax-gatherers, and to augment in set t:
all the evils which the plan was intended to ri.
medy.—(Near, hear.)—lle concluded by eapre•••
ing a strong hope that Government would lend t:•
self to the proposed inquiry.
Lord CA,TLIUAGH regretted that• on a subj. t t
justly described to be so compreheals,ve as this, so
many abstract and speculative views should hate
been pressed upon the attention of Gov.-raiment is
one accumulated shape. lle meant to say tiothin4
but what was respectful of the {tenons whir hart
signed this Petition, and whose recommendatioc.
of course. it only purported to In-. The time
would, perhaps, hereafter come when it trunk'
be more regular to enter upon many of the
arguments that were urged in the ceurse of the
evening ; but he wished now merely to state, that
Goveristnent had not lost sight of the Important in-
terests which had been descanted up,,,, , and titiot
Ministers were now, as he knew his It slit Ilui .
Friend (the Chancellor of the Escliciioe.) hail ai.
ways been, most ready to receive and cohsid; r
any communications which were calculated to
ameliorate the state of the cominercoil reheiohe
of the country. It was most (I.lficult ui,uu the mere
statement of abstract principles to do inure than ,re
how far they could be applied to the general con.-
, mrrce of the country ; they may be .1.1 hileilliekt
abstractedly very good, and yet inapplicab:e or in-
capable of practical effect front a variety of cause,.
Nothing was therefore more diffienit than hasti-
ly to disturb large interests and large capitals
embarked in commercial transactions; such at-
tempts, so far from realising good, would ouly
augment distress and shake pulsiic confidence.
If any practical view were submitted, it should
have immediate attention. lie could not concur
io the necessity of embiti king in a wide and general
field of inquiry like that now suggested t.y the
Petitioners on the mere statement ul existiii4 dis-
tress. If Parliament on such a ground, which at
any time might be urged its one degree or another.
adopted such a comprehensive inaiii,er of ham-
log the labours of a Cuntinitler, their apphcatilli
would be as interminably called for, as he leaned
their labours would be gritted!, and, iii reality, im-
practicable towards meetirtg the distress.a that led
to their formation. Th. Noble Lord added, that
respecting the bullion question, whatever were
his opinions at the time of its niscussio
there was nothing lie should now .o touch dee
precate as ally reference to it for the pur•
pose of reconsideration. Parliament had des:idea
upon it, and to their decision they were lumina t,•
adhere—any other decision would be likely to
shake the whole course through witch the burouess
of the country was conductert.—(lleor.)
Mr. ELLIce culecuried in the opinion that a tin)
wide and comprehensive atcumulattuit of I ris.iirs•
for the consideration of a Ciiiiinittee, ass nut
to tend to the desirable result of practical adenoids,.
Ile also agreed that an inquiry, such as that pro-
posed by this Petition, could only be elf, ctive when
aided by the whole force of Gov.-rim:4W. Soups
inquiry was doubtless necessary.—/ Hear-, hear.)—
He concluded by saying, that un!ess the slate of
the country was fully considered, mid tel ef
ed to the distressed, that lie was sure th y were .1
no great period front an alarming coin-.
Mr. K. FIN LAY eXi.laiiitd.
Mr. Alderman Wools seta, that there carte at
least twelve names to the Pe:ition at A-rroiare s
who were favourable to measu.ra ri rhe. cdog
bullion lineation. Ile knew intimately toasty of
the Petitioners, and he could assert. HMI the sore
object of the Petition was to prucuse au suctuiry
into the st.te of the commercial and massof.c.a i
interests of the country.
Mr. Aldertivin II6:YGATE said, that he tlechued
putting his name to the Primate. lowlese be
thought It was of tau gellefla a UMW! ; there
were 11.4111C11 to that PCIIIIO4I as swop. ctiahlle as any
that could be found in favour of the hoiburi (loca-
tion. He would beg tile nitro. ,f the
whilst lie stated the real cause .l the public tin-
burriniailiient and distress—that suss revs proceed, if
front their having within the last r •
withdrawn no less than nine 111.11 a boos t..e
circulation of the coutitty. Tiny inislit have c. ii-
sidered it necessary to 4141 so, but rv. ry one kie
that such a reductitsis could nut Mote is..n .a
the currency of the country w.tJwut psu.A4Ll
great embarrassments ; by that ilitiallic chary hi .d,
in fact. added little 111111 l4l tile ii•liois•l 'lt tat,
and they had shaken the confilence and the tre.itt
of the country. Ile hoped tit..t th y i,ad +sea
• Jimit.ta i Ol t .a
intended Its .top. Hr
country understood buiii
were near the ca d
,envy, the coritiJence tit
ca nowt. sot sod Ilia-
The real cause of the
diminutiou of the curienry ;
*eels of satiation, mud of
: lie would agree with
Glasgow, that taxation was -
11' lieu ass tolj•cliuil..

s.uri of the bullion question.—f ricer, peor.j— Dinillitell CMllicsivai—ii .., • c..... I.a. ro ••••.•;•••• ....,a.... .....,..n. •••
The ,eaan, referred to the general decline vi trade. leas he li-Ist it, end still thought it a good one ; from an improvdent increase of importations, us midst of the complicated disaresses of the country, nearly arrived at Ow point of dimn,u Um 01 I.e
said tite flearbflly that rotheMent should inquire , the pinticular p i.e of its reduction winch was well 86 otter inanufacturing. There was then no and the mixed and totiicate relations of EttioPe, arculJlion at which they intruded to .lup„ lie
r ( ,ireply into the cause of a stagnating' so injurious held OM by 6.,cetuutelit, lie thought unwire— want fur this increased stuck. He utterly denied could only be made by a person who had sonic was convinces' that if liar country waler,tuuJ I.aiii
to the prosperity of the country. Ile alluded, it that opinion he hod invariably entertained. He that over taxation formed any part or the evil. influence with Government; nay inure, that it the Government that they were neor the es ds I'
'brit conversatiou„ .tni the failure of our motion lauieuied upou this poitit the state into which the British manufactures were not shut from foreign would require the Government Itself to bind the diminution of the curie:my, the cos.fiJence ut
. 04,...8e„„etee) for au inquiry into the distresses of cumin,. hail fallen, but it 886 nut in idle sod un- I markets in consequence of any increase of price its
the tammufactorms districts, became it was el- ' availing I•nieutatiuna that they were to spend their through taxation in this country- They. on their owls constitutional responsibility. If they nufactures would flourish. Tire read c.ube a the
.l-Wcd4o hove hem mixed up with poly topic.; mod time—they were tither called iss tea see how they the contrary, undersold the foreign market*. even did so, 'to be eventually successful, it public th.tresa was the diminutinu of the einiesiey ;
•.fif „maker. (its Wm, de crespigmy's., ou Mr. 'pre to get out of the difEctiltier of dab state.— where taxation was comparatively less. It war a would require the efforts of a wetly siroug and they might talk of the tweets of taainun, mud a
()men*. plan). 0„ account of the extreme and int- (Hear, hcars)—The wily wise, in the end ecouo- great mistake to say than the working climes efficient Governutent. ‘Vhether the. present Go- Parliamentary Refuels, but lie wood „gm/ unit
pructieside theories of the author of it : tbongh Meal, de of getting out of the difficulty, was. were alone affected. Their !Must* wes by no vermuent were so or not, with a view effectually the Hon. Member for Glasgow, that ',tuition was
c,itaimiy, bad the inquiry into the latter takeu in his opinion, to pay off the debt..—Why did wrens worse thou that of others in the same walk to carry on their own measure., be would not at out the cause of this d0m.... %11,e. „ .I,i,cs,„*.
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