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London, England, 1821-03-29 00:00:00

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charging The religions functions. If the EIM. Cleo•
tlenaan (Mr. Hutchinson) could suggest any Piid•
mesa, he was sore there was a disposition in the
House to attend to it ; and as to this Bill being
finally decisive, he was sure that at env future pe-
riod, should it appear to the wisdom of Parliament
that they had taken a wrong step, they would be
alWays ready to retrace it. (Tut he did not think
there was any solidity in the argument that Catlin.
lice entertained any just scruples; he had the
authority of the head of the Church for this asser-
tion ; he had the Pope at his back.—(Meth burgh-
ler.) —The Catholics could not reasonably expect
the privileges of the other 8011, unless they were
prepared in make these concessions which the prac-
tice of Europe had established. He therefore
hoped the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Hutchinson)
would toot allow his individual opinions to ope-
rite_ in a manner so foreign to his inclination.
He must be aware how difficult it is to effect
any great measure of this kind, to allay the
tumults that have so long ueliappily existed in
Ireland, in such a moonier as at ouce to give gene-
ral w•iefactiot►. When a kindred measure towards
the Presbyterians had been carried, at lint it gave
general dissatisfaction, but he never since heard a
Presbyterian speak or it except io terms of grati-
tude ; end he had trot the slightest doubt that when
the difficulties that appeared in some timid minds
were removed, there was enough of good sense and
sound principle amongst the Catholic clergy to
convert the measure to the advantages it is intended
to bestow.—(Hear, hear.)
Dr. PICILLIsIORE said a few words in support of
the measure. He said that, much as lie regarded
the ►uccess of the measure, he never could consent
to its being carried into estecittiou if the securities
were withdrawn. This he should lenient most sin-
cerely, for nothing could tend more than thi, mea-
sure to revigorate nut resources', and consolidate
the two empires. He sincerely trusted that a wee- '
sure so happily begun would terminate to *
general satisfaction.
Mr. Pau. rose immediately behind Lord Castle-
reagh, and commenced by observing, that he hoped
when his Noble Friend state•l that he had the
Pope at lois beck, he made no allusions to his
friends in the rear.—/Mach laughter.)—There was
°tie ob lion that fell from the Hon. Member
for Cork (Mr. Hutchinson) to which he wished
particularly to allude. He seemed to speak as if
these securities were introduced merely for his satis-
faction, and those who opposed the measure. This,
however, was not the ease. Whatever satisfaction
the measure gives, let the Gentlemen who introduc-
ed it enjoy the beue6t of ; but if these clauses, of
which he should say nothing, should produce any
unpopularity in Ireland, let them net transfer it
to his side of the House. Their opposition was
manly, fair, and open, and he could only say, that
he should not now avid himself of any misunder-
standing that "eight arise amongst the friends of the
tueasure.—( Cheers )

‘11111146:
\

a real union between Great Britain and Ireland.
( Hear, hear.)
Mr. Huvattostitt explained that he by no
means meant to complain of the first Bill, on the
contrary, he thought that it did full justice to the
distinguished and respectable persons who were to
derive the just advantages it conferred but what
be did complain of was, coupling that Bill with
the other relating to the Clergy; which, by the
oaths it required, went to cast suspicions upon.
and harass with unnecessary and unbecoming re-
strictions, so respectable and loyal a body as the
Roman Catholic Clergy of Ireland.
Mr. CANNING then rose. After the obe region
of the Hoes. Gentleman that just sat down, he
should not detain the House numy minutes.; bat
lie thought it would be quite unbecoming in any
man who had taken • part in the former proceed-
ings, not to come forward and ezpress his concur.
rence in these Bills, end take his full share of the
unpopularity, if any did attach to it.—(Hear.)
But both the Hon. Gentlemen seemed to have
taken quite a false view of the cue. Good God I
are we to be told, after so large • sacrifice of Pro-
testant prejudice, when the measure comes to be
occonsplished, that the Catholics are not satisfied,
I mid when we wish to incorporate the Catholic and
Protestant into one people, there should be a schism
amongst the Catholics. It was a little too much
that on the side of the Protestants all the sacrifice
should be made, and on the side of the Catholics
none at alt. Is the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hutchio-
goo) aware of the state of the laws relating to the iu-
tercourse with the See of Rome ? or can he re-
commend the Catholic still to remain under that
abominable state of the law, secure, because they
are too bad fin execution?—(Neer, hear.)—And
when the Parliament has consented to remove
these anomalies in the laws, and admit the Ca-
tholic laity to a participation in the blessings
of the Constitution, are the clergy so obsti-
nate as to keep the Catholics in a state worse
than any other country in Europe ? If they should
liersevere, it mast be at no less a sacrifice than
the loss of the Bill ; and after the Bill has gone so
far, and the concessions granted, the man must
forget every claim to candour who would step for-
war and say they were now unwilling to pay
the price of these concessions. He hoped he would
not be supposed capable of countenancing such a
trick. If these clauses are detached, at least in
substance front the Bill, from that moment be
would with as much sincerity as he had made other
important sacrifices for the Catholics, oppose the •
Bill, fur he should consider it a fraud on the
country topass it in that mutilated state.—(Cheers./
Sir -G. HILL said, if lie were disposed to deal
unfairly, be might take an advantage of the dif-
ference of opinion that seemed to prevail with re-
spect to these securities. The Right Hon. Baronet
then read some extracts from a distinguished States-
man in the other House, which more than over-
balanced any arguments he lied heard on the ques-
tion. He could assure the Howse that should the
Bill be carried, would be lxious

, no men . more 111110,
Mr. M. FITZGERALD felt some satisfaction in then he would to reconcile all parties.—t Hear./
concurring in the general principles of the Noble Mr. R. MARTIN then rose. He conceived that
Lord, but he could not concur in some of the
_the House should not allow themselves to be di-
statements of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Ffutchinsoe). ,vetted from their course by soy hypercritical oppo-
Fle did not think this was a question as to whether sition that might be given to the measure stow Fir-
ths Duke of Norfolk should sit In one House. Or fore them. He was aware that the admission of the
his sun in the other. It is • question that deter- Roman Catholics to Parliament might in some
mines whether the privileges of the Constitution counties in Ireland interfere with the election of
shall be conferred on the great body of the nation. Protestant Members, and in none perhaps more
But he thought that in estimating the important probable than in the county he had the honour to
advantages to be derived from it, we should take represent (Galway). However, should he be op.
care not to exasperate the feelings of the Catholic,. posed, he had a most successful weapon to can-
There were three things to he considered in this bat with. He should produce oe the hustings
Bill—the oath which is to he taken, the regulstioni.f the charter of Catholic freedom, which, witli
the intercourse with the See of Rome, and the spa his humble Voice, he had assisted to obtaiii:
pointment of the Bishops. With respect to the For these reasons he should certainly vote for going
oath, he was ready to admit that it was competent into the Committee.
for Parliament to take assurance that nothing Mr. HUTCHINSON explained.
should occur inconsistent with their allegiance to Mr. SHAW said he represented one of the most
their Sovereigo, or the internal tranquillity of the Catholic counties. His constituents had long begii.
country ; but we are doing nothing for the Clergy, in possession of the Bill, but he heard nothing
we are conferring no privileges or benefits on them. front them against it.
He. therefore, thought these securities misapplied ; Mr. CANNiNG explained.
they were applied to a body who had no interest, Mr. Beaton thought it would be a great adva-l-
and derived no advantage from the Bill they were Cage not to impose the oaths on such Catholic
plowing. If, indeed, the motion proposed by an Prints as sere now in orders, but to attach it to
Hoe. Member (Mr. Croker) hail been carried into those who should hereafter be ordained. Some of
effect, then perhaps might be considered a proper the wesent priesthood might have scruples and
time for regulating the intercourse; but, in fact, prejudices which would make them unwilling to
the Clergy are not even named in the Bill, and take it, but if it were imposed only on tho.e whohe therefore thought the security quite missp- might hereafter take holy orders, they would know
plied. The Catholic Clergy are the very per- whet was expected from them, and be prepared to
sons of all others about whom they might feel conform or avoid entering on the office.
the least alarm ; for, although they are the per- Mr. Rica said the Honourable Member for
Dublin had not received the instructions of his
SODS whose rights and whose functions have been
most unjustly invaded, yet be might select them constituents that they disapproved the Bill, hut fie
as examples of the most meritorious conduct. had received the approbation of his Catholic con-
In the state in which Ireland is placed, in come- . etituents. The Hon. Member read a letter which
quence of the absence of the nobility and gentry, I stated the writer's satisfaction at the promised met-
the entire tranquillity and morals of the nation are sure, bat acknowledged there were turbulent spirits
dependant on their unbought zeal and unremitting in the Catholic body who would complain of it.
rxerticis.—(Hear.)—Why then would you visit but if the measure once passed into slaw, the writer
them with these unnecessary restrictions ? With was satisfied all those restless briar would be
respect to the other parts of the Bill, he would say found trifling iii the scale of the United Kingdom.
that it was not his intention to create any Such was the opinion of a most rigid Catholic, of
alarm, and he hoped if the House should go one to whom, if it were possible to use the word
hum ii Committee on the clauses some modifi- bigot, divested of any bad sense. he would apply it
cation might be made. In appointing the Com- i to him. He did not approve the second Bill, be.
mission, some limitation might take place, and cruse he thought there was no danger from, tisk
some alteration in the mode of selecting them.— Catholics.
There was one main principle to which he always Mr. P. Mocnte said, that had it nit been for tho.
adhered, that any interference of the Crown with extensive correspondence into which lie had eiiteredi
the Clergy was an unwise and an inexpedient men- I on the subject, he believed the Bill would not have.
wyorbmouimeadictetaileetilli:
sure. Tin* opinion was wholly exempt from ally been brought before the House this year. 'Flees'.
measure
ii r .e.xat
therefore ;s)
rut .yr
eB t
Aowt
clo,euw thel
House
1 LCobLuer
feeling of the Catholics; they were founded on tooloutuedly were ardent spirits who would not km
he hoped
mtearlemic:lei:icsveuhleddgweegsanoseairnbooaftulollyliay,,
bcal nil
general principles by which he had been always satisfiedz but he considered the measure was Lois-
actuated. He thought that airy such interference
would diminish that influence which the Ckrgy
of Ireland had over their flocks, nut only for the
lice of Ireland, inasmuch as it would promote the
purposes of religion, but for the support of the
Government. He would recommend these Gen-
Omni. who are so fond of •iitoorliiit.; to the int- tranquillity of that eountry.,
thorny of Mr. Burke on every great coustitutionol I The Speaker then quitted the Chair, and the
question. to refer to his wartengs en this subject. House resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill:
l'hey would there fluid selonneuts applicable to all The Chairman having read the preamble, the
times. Ile felt that he was not surrounded by marl game was agreed to.
in the House of his opinions, and it would perhaps
Lord CASTIARRAGH thee moved, that the first
be considered unbecoming in luau to persevere m blank in the first clause should be filled up with
rafercing his opinion.. He wished' tou ardeirtly for the words .4 .i, m00d0...., which was
agrieed to.
,
Ilserowecesi of the measure to throw iiity thine in Mr. GOI.II.IIURN moved, dim the seer) ad blank
t. the may of its accompliel l' It .w!li. tullooloiblo should be filled up with the words " one month."
for woe& to convey the happy eeemeetuenere likely Sir Jowl Newry/at objected, that would be too
Se result from it. He felt persuaded it would be glen a period.
the tarsus of effecting what every smilfiefust desit'6, Mr. Gov &seek mid it was not one month (mitt