The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1825-02-09 00:00:00

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is certain that wheiesith 'slum has been excited, exertion*
would proportionally increase, and with them a determination
to carve resolutions, although privately, into effect. I say again,
that Jour ships may
!get rid of the name " Catholic
Rent, but I repeat that yon will do nothing more. I know a
story relative to Ireland, which, although a somewhat ludicrous
one, was not without its application to the present question, and
*hick would, show how ignatent our ancestors were on all subjects
which concerned that gauntry. In a remote part of Ireland, where,
disturbances and outrages!were too frequent, about the time of the
reign of Henry VIII., the Irish were in the habit of exciting
themselves by calling out--" Butler-a-boo," and " Groin- a-boo."
The wise persons who were, in that day, Governors of Ireland,
wrote over to this count accounts that those two words were the
cause of all the mischief and all the outrages, and that they must
therefore be put down. The Cabinet consequently met on the sub-
ject ; history does not say whether or not there was a division on
the question, but it is certain that they came to the resolution of
putting down those two words, " Butler-a-boo" and " Crom-a-
boo ;' and they resolved also that the words should be abolished
from the Irish language. As they had, however, sonic feelings of
humanity, and as they knew that the Irish must have some ay, they
ordained that they might be in future permitted to cry out " St.
George ;" but that if they cried either "Butler-a-boo" or " Crotn-
a.boo," they were to be punished. I do not know whether they
afterwards erect the one word or the other, but I know that they
continued to commit as much violence and as many outrages as be-
, fore. Ido not wean to compare the Catholic Association with
thoscbarbarians, nee do I mean to make any comparison of those
legislators with the trainers of our modern laws ; but I know that
they have been equally railing at words, and words alone. Your
Lordships must calculate the consequences of the measures it is in-
tended to propose before you adopt them, because you will not be
able to say " if we fail we tail, and sitnply leave things as they
were before." Would not the person to whom I hare alluded be as
able, if he had the will to do it, to do as much mischief after as be-
fore he hod Leen brought into the Courts of Dublin ? 1 Mope it
is unnecessary for me to say that, in thus troubling your Lordships,
I havtleot sought, nor have I thought it necessary to seek, for an op-
portueity of apologising for the proceedings of the Catholic Associ.
ation. With respect, however, to that body, although after what I
have said, I must Le or opinion that I have no right to judge of
them front the reports I have received, I have no objection to say
that, if those reports be true, I have seen much in their conduct
and pruceedings of which I must disapprove; but I must add, that
I cannot conceive any large body of people, n ore especially of peo-
ple labouring under grievances, real or Imaginary, and deprived of
what we Protestants call religious rights, who are capable of carry.
ing on debates without sometimes introducing blamable matter,
without saying and doing much which I, and alt persons looking at
the subject as I do, must entirely disapprove. But if 1 disapprove
of much, 1 also knew that of many of their proceedings 1 approve',
highly ; and I therefore think it would be unwise to put them
down, even if it were possible to extinguish their proceedings, which
undoubtedly had their birth in the (*echoes of tile country. 1 know
that there exists a feeling in the mind of every man, arising
out of his degraded state in society, if such he his situation, which
it is impossible for the Legislature of the country to take bold of,
and which no rational man would attack, because it must elude his
grasp. If such be the case of a single member of society, how
much more must it be so of a large body. I have always thought
it better far all panics that, in a country divided by religious and
political dissensions, the people should find an opportunity of ex-
pressing themselves openly to the rest of the community, and of stat-
ing their grievances, whether founded or ill-founded, in an open and
public manner, and neither in secret nor confined, mumbling in this
respect those unhealthy vapours which only remained unhealt and
mischievous so long as they were prevented from rising, but which,
the moment they were allowed to mix with the pure air, lost at
once their mischief and their nature. But the specific grounds on
which my motion rests are these: that when we are called upon to
provide a remedy for an evil, and especially when we are called
upon to do so by the Speech front the Throne, it is but right for
us to inquire what this evil is; it is imperative that we know
against what evil we are called upon to provide a remedy, and to
know it from those whose duty it is to take the dimensions of it.
If we have not this information we are not competent to judge of
the evil, and therefore we are unable to consider of a remedy,
which I think it would be perhaps almost hopeless, but which
would be, at all events, difficult, to provide. Olt these grounds
I move your Lordships, that an humble Address be presented
to his Majesty, praying that his Majesty will be graciously pleased
to order copies of all despatches made by the Lord Lieutenant of
Ireland, relative to the origin, progress, and nature of the ileli.
pus and Political Societies in that country.
The Eul of LIVERPOOL—My Lords, when any Noble Lord'
rises upon any subject, he may as well know what is the eubjetd
upon lunch he means to address the House ; and when any indi-
vidual rises to make a motion upon any particular prospective pro-
ceeding, be might as well wait, when a few days must ex plain what
the nature of the intended proceeding is. It is true, that in the
Speech which your Lordships have heard from the Throne, his
Majesty, after congratulating your Lordships anti the country upon
the national prosperity in which Ireland participates, alludes to the
existence of associations in that country, which have been produc.
tive of the worst consequences. It is true, that his Majesty further
recommends iou to consider what remedy may be applied to correct
this evil, and prevent these ill effects; and it is true that an Ad-
dress has been carried up, in which your Lordships reply that you
will consider the means of applying a remedy to the evil. There
the matter rents. The Noble Lord knows, or lie might know, by
the votes of the House, that it is the intention of his Majesty's
Government to introduce some measure applicable to the evil,
which your Lordships were recommended to consider, but he
might have waited to know what that measure was ; he might
have waited to learn its character and object, of which, judg-
ing from his speech, he seems most completely ignorant.
The Noble Lord has said that no attempt should be made to
abridge the liberty of the subject without inquiry—without infer-
illation having been laid upon the table of the House. 1 would
agree with the Noble Lord if the House did not know the grounds
upon which they were called upon to act. These grounds, however,
may be of general notoriety ; the proposed measure may be
founded upon facts, known to every Noble Lord, as well as to any
Member of his Majesty's Government. The Noble Lord had,
himself, acted upon this principle at a period to which I shall re.
fee Two years ago, when measures were introduced for the sup-
pression of the Orange Societies, how did the Noble Lord act ?
how did the House act ? Did he ask a tittle of information ? Did
the House go into any inquiry ?--although the proceedings and
character of the Orange Associations were not half so well known
to your Lordships or to the country as the proceedings of the Ca-
thelic Association. Ido not now mean to give any opinion upon
the proceedings of the Catholic Association—of that hereafter. I
shall not now say whether these proceedings were right or wrong ;
but I repeat that, in the ease of the Orange Societies, your
Lordships and the Noble Lord acted upon his sole knowledge,
end in so doing I think he was justified. But at that period, any
advocate of Orange Associations, if they had an advocate in this
House, may have risen and asked for Inquiry upon the same prin.
ciplca upon which the Noble Lord now demands it for the Catholic
Association. But, with respect to the Catholic Association, if the
measure to be proposed tested upon official information,—if it
rested only on the confidence that ought to be reposed in the Go-
vernment.— if it rested colely upon the responsibility of his Majes-
ty's Minister, it may be a fair case for asking information. Even
in this case, however, the measure should be known ; but how is
the case altered when his Majesty's itliniaters can produce no infor-
mation, and bring to your Lordships knowledge no fact which is
not as well known to your Lordships as to the Executive? It was
the peculiar boast of the Catholic Association, and Is mention nei-
ther as matter for praise nor blame, that all their proceedings were
published—that every thing was done openly and in the face of day.
I should think that, if Parliament shall think it fitting to adopt
any measure which will include the Catholic Association, that Inca-
sure must be adopted upon the grounds of those proceedings which
hare been admitted, published, promulgated, and which no Mem.
ber of the Association can deny. The Noble Lord's motion ap-
pears to me to be without any precedent ; I doubt whether • there
may be any grounds whatever for adopting it at any time, but parti_
ticularly at this time, when the House is not in possession of the
measure which his Majesty's alinisters are about to bring forward.
As to the difficulties which may occur in forming a legislative
enactment to affect this or any other Association, I shall not now
enter upon a discussion. We should now discuss it in the dark,
and had better wait for the light, and not deal with the measure as
if berme the House, until the measure actually is before us. But
the Noble Lord supposes, I can scarcely conceive upon what
grounds, that the measure to be proposed by his Majesty's Minis-
ters, has been Mundied upon the contrivance of nty Noble and
Learned Friend on the Mi oolsack. There is nothing in my Noble
and Learned Friend's station which should lead the Noble Lord to
suppose that the measure originated with him. As one of his Ma-
jesty's servants, my Noble and Learned Friend must, of course,
have given his concurrence to the measure; but why the Noble
Lord should presume that my Noble and Learned Friend has,
as it were, concocted the measure, I repeat I know not how
to conceive. If the Noble Lord means to insinuate that the
measure is my Noble and Learned Friend's, and not the
measure of the Irish Government, I can assure him that he
is entirely misinformed. It is Cie measure of the Irish Go.
vernment, approved of by the English Government. It is the flea.
sure of the Irish Government, founded upon a deep sense of its
necessity, and ai the only means tot maintaining the peace and tran-
quillity of Ireland. I will not now be led into any discussion,
either as to the expediency of the projected measure, or its ade-
quacy to effect the purpose for which. it is intended. If the Bill
come up from the other House. that will be the proper period to
enter fully upon the subject. Thus much, however, I will say,
which I feel, and I am sure every man in the enquire must feel,
that associations like that which has been alluded to must of nem-
sity produce political and religious animosities. destructive of the
peace of any country. The Noble Lord has said, what assembly
is there that meets fur the express purpose of discussion, in which
violent and inflammatory speeches have not been heard? lam as
little inclined to tear the effects of inflammatory speeches as the
Noble Lord ; they sometimes serve as vents by which bad feeling
evaporates, that, if it had remained pent up, might have ultimately
produced considerable evil. I agree with the Noble Lord, that
when iodividuals meet for discussion, professing different religious
and political opinions, it is scarcely possible to suppose that warmth
and heats will not arise. and that inflammatory speeches will not
frequently be heard. Inflammatory spereben wider such circum-
stances are little to be dreaded; but when an assembly meets for
the purpose of effecting the saute object, when they profess the
same faith, and meet with the some views, I am forced to look at
their proceedings with feelings something Mfferent I admit, how-
ever, that not much weight should rest on inflammatory speeches,
except so far u they may be constructive Macon The measure to
be proposed by his Majesty's Ministers should be founded upon
proceedings aifopted and acted %iron. To say more ueon the sub-
ject now would be premature. 'lb. Noble Lord conceives that the