The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1808-03-30 00:00:00

AMERICAN WAR

Lord ;cis in pursuance of
the notice I hare previously• given, I now rise. to
submit to this House certain Resolutions upon the,
generul policy of those measures which Ills Ma-
jesty's Alinisters brave thought proper to carry into
exiicution' itgaitist tht; of neutral sod sada-
peuileut States. 'ln 'discussing. .thiS TI)011)C11401ill

subject, both us to the applieetroto aiiil etWeet of
the oneanures odoptied, I can satiety assume, that-
under the olee•Artation of neutral etmootelos,
America stands the most prominent, if not the
only nation agoinst ollich the immediate ope-
ration of the triflers in Conned it aa‘cted. Lh
the many debates to which these Ostler* have
given birth, it has been argued with Ovesidevalole
force by toy Noble Friends near ate, 'that the rya.
term pursued by the King's Ministers, sine* the'
I Ith isf Auveaslosiolnat, was tieLosily -ineortgattil► ef.
with that politic law Which hitherto le gtilaf.l‘
dictate:lna of civilised Outiouso in their iotereourie
with, each other, but wits also reptionnet to the
municipal enactrueuts of this comitry. Upton this
port if the %abject it is not now my intentimi to
colinge, for allowing that to be true %droll I do
nut tees, :mak , that the Orders in Council were
justified by the Law of Nations, allovrisig that in
place. of LeOug ittodle to the spirit and letter of our
muoicipel code, •tliey weir_ to be deleutied by the
prorpocuoui of positive stittutes; still I contend,
that aatler the pi:lota eiretonstantos of the world,
sod with u vies to the nature of the relations ex-
isting between this errantry and the United States.
of America, and, above all, ns l reflect upon the
dongerous couseouttoces to winch they will probe-
, hly lead, still i couttod that upon their policy
' alone His Majesty has been advised to adopt a
course of proceeding vitally injurious to the hest
Acid most eiseistialoutcoots of Great Munn. • It
is with such an impression that 1 have felt it r
most* pteosing ditty to cat upon this Hare to
nits Tose. I cell upon it to record its deliberate
opinion upon the railway Impolicy of the conduct
pursued by His Majesty's Moistens Past ex-
perience his proved, that ouch on interfereure ou.
the part of the Parrmment of. this country
has heretofore stopped the career of injudieirmo,
violence, and preserved the country from the if
.cultic* earl dangers which the cootinumice in a
towage wf policy similar to this must have. inevitnivly
• retailed. We had net yet, fortunately, so nr pro-
. ccecle&io this path of impropriety,, as to he do-
priced of the power of retracing our *epic 'Wo
hod inn plugged so deeo Into this ears of ttoribles,"
that mommy not yet be able to retrain our coarse.
We have not yet gone so far in the. work' of ea-
:l4l'aity, that tftewatione; voice of tMt HOmileit*Ott
not still save us from impending ruin tool abiolute
destruction. 'Float nun loud that &otitis-1i
there am no more certain met' od of effect-
ing, than by driving the people • f Atomic" into
hostility with Grent Britain. Arid what other
etfect than this can the Nohle Lords opposite ex-
pert ? Do they conceive that a great and inde-
rudeat nation, with tighbr mid inane** winch it
Is her duty to protect, ,wi/1 quietly succumb to a
course of procroliiig which goes to interrupt the
whole of her exttiosive eomitierce with the Conti-
nent of Europe, and subject to imposts, to
proltibitionts, and, in saws cease,, to consiscation,
her shipping tool canoes ? It is impossible that
any ouch hope mould he eutertained, even by the
most credulous. But was this all Were slimis-
tars satisfied with the aggressinu committed by the
executino of the Orders in Coancii on Americo?
No ; insult was added to injury, and the evil was
canaidentitly agorweated by the atriums:lions min-
tier in 'hick it was corned finto effect. This sys-
tem, am destructive to theprospority of America is
-firm adopted withooteny alleged provocative, ;ted
of the intination of acting upon it the Illiosistroa of
this country would not deign to come' unicata.tr
the American Usiverninoist any previous intimation.
Indeed, we have it Crow their own mouths, that
eve.' the very geothutiast (Mr. Fiore) whom it was
deemed adootble to send so recently to dolt coun-
try, on a special mission, was, at' the time of his
departure, totally ignorant, ant only of the mature
of these Orders in Council, but of theiittention of
the King's Government to resort to such a course
of policy, Aud, toy Lords, lei so consider the
period which was selector! for the adoption of this
systeiu. It was at a tune who IL from certain
occurrences, our relations with America woo
dir-
tsvhed, and altos actaady a spirted mission was
sent forward, by Great Britain, to enter into such
explanatious most conducive to lead to an ainiewhle
urrangement upon that point. Under such cir-
eureslances it was that Itissfatera ventured to carry
into operation measures which go to deorive a
great and growing Italian, such uatiosititetliy as
AllaeriClL is, of its great staple triode, 'tamely,
thee exportation of cotton to the Contiment- of
Europe ; and subject to the taxation of a fortiori
state, possemr& of no right or eoutsoul over. her,
the whole of bet commercial and shipping in-
terests. One should have ila:olio that these
could not bo found in this tionatry, so ravioli/after
what has happens-4 in our COMIDCS.IO4I with Americo,
iiervuoa determined to revive that principle of
American revenue which lost that country for over.
to t:reat Britain. It was not Duty to impositions
or reotrictiona swan heir trade thot these Orders
were limited. taey took a more eat -naive ranee,
and wore attended with more violent corwonencto.
'flier devoted to cut tluiation any American vessel
oil Loud• if which n "'reach certificate of the
growth and orioles of the cargoes woos fiu ad by any'
of our craiaars. It is necessory on this point to.
I observe, that soy belligerent his • right to demand

•-. . -
emit a certificate frog any neutral trading to 6)6.
pone of that belle;ererit. Such a right was recog-
nized by tin Law of Nations, and had been exer-
cised heretolure by France, and also acted upon In
tier' country. 'ln the Americans trading to the
porte of France, it was necessary, is order to
Wgalive the sale of their cargo in that country.--,
Veit . the - Orders is Council have reduced
theta to thee dilemma, that without thin. cer-
tuieste .a origin, they are liable to eonfisca-
time in any pert of the Continent of Ettrope, sub-
ject to the doting:ion of ranee, and on the high
oats. the very discovery or this doeuineut, by w
British cruiser, is, sure to expose them to un-
eonditiornil confiscation, in. all .places slider the
iJoininitui of the Sovereign 0111 United King-
dom. But without arguioi upon the attettavt me-
tits of this part of the subject, the, feet wax this.
'flint the certificate signed by the Freneh Consul
in the ports of America was butit nosey security to
France against the importation of British groduce •
and manufactures into the Continent otPurope,
whilst its possession by the American trader gave
him the ability of conveying into the very ports
of the enemy, without risk or disturbance, these
Yeti artietes, against the introdoetiou of .which this
very doenarted -was substituted' se **expedients
But it was not inerety in the measure of the Ordert
in Council that this f .regsvd far the fr'endship anti
amity of Artotrire v. 34 eve cod.. The same feeling
'on; manly characterised every proceeding of the
King s Ministers with regard to that country. It
ass manifested in the tine and temper of the com-
niunicatious which lied recently harm' place be-
tweeti the two Governments, and most voit:spieu-
ously is the manner in which the iiegocietiou,
which, in concert with my Noble Friend near me,
1 lard the honour to conduct, was so improvidently
and ' iutemperately broken off by llis Majesty's
Steretary for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Cauniug.r And
with respect to that treaty, I must be allowed to
otlera the observations, toe order to rebut the misre-
presentation and inisinforaietinii which have been so
industriously circulated out of doors on this Aubject.
It has beets asserted, that the Executive Authority
of America had actually sent back the Treaty it-
self, with a refusal to ratify it; and that certain
anitudutents were affixed, without which it .would
never' he sanctioned in that country. It is 'not
true that such a proceeding took place. It was •
truothat a copy of the Trott, had been 'triune
usittedfrore America, with certain explaitatione,
,arnich the President of the United Stoat-it tem-
perately recotutnended as proper to be Maturely
determined, particularly upon the point affect-
inmtheright of our armed ellipsampreerieg Ante,.
Avon .--seutoeu. No such poem ptery • admissiine
was affixed, and therefore it •is u ith am *midi share:
tot awomishuteut, that in the harm in which ahe
copy of that Treaty is printed fee the use of this
[tom r, and eith the
.proposed amendments
to the )margin. I find the source from
,Wlieure
impression on the public mind. orejaziettat. 1 cn
not ehavtgetise pertea wittesstiteltrarde-1-1311it • • • •
inn curtain that it was taleekited, and:m:lo4.y
tint eroiluce this delusive etlet.t; statf.'sporietree
I do antert, Olt these prapoted:aratrusdulrtay
_treat
not meant as the eine-ewe nee, without Whikis the
President of the Utfited-States would not taitetiou
the Treaty. In all former discuseious ou tht.slaba
jest of the Orders in Council, the great 'grtimul
upon which Ministers have ventured to •tiefead
them, the ouly.point of justification on which they
rely, is the Order of the ;th ofJanaiary, 1607. which
the rate Adteinistration had conceived it its duty
to titfoiree. 11; therefore, this grouud be proved to
be not only untenable, but that Ministers them-
mitre were aware of its toot being at aft
cable to the syytem nth cti they have pursued, there
is a duty left for this House to iutereose its SQ.*
letnnalid recorded regolutiou. The Order of the
7th ofJanuaratlid tiotexcite in America any strong
objections aprsiast the priiwiple of the poltri. The
uneasiiino that was there excited, sod the appre-
hensions which were eatertaintal on that subject,
arose front a total misconception of the American
government as to the legal coustritetion of that Or-
der. it was supposed by them, that the operation
orthatOrder was directed not only meatiest the
coasting trade of the enemy, but to interrupt mu-
tnds in a commerce of discharge from port to port
of the ent.iliV'S territories. That is, an Ame-
rican ship, trading direct to Bordeaux, apd there
having dispnved of a part of her cargo, was re-
stricted from confinumg her voyage to any other
port.; fur instance, Amsterdam, in order to
tell the remaining part ocher cargo. Acconliugly
we find, that Mr. Madison, h, a note to the
British Envoy, did express such apprehension,
and Nis Majesty's presiait Ministers were advised
of such a communication being made, is April last;
What wits the conduct pursued by them on receiv-
ing stielfah indite/6.01i ? Did they proceed tft dis-
sipate the apprelensioes so idetelly entertained be
the Amt./it-au Cioirorsusieut 1 They did no such
thing: they,. the liieseeir Ministert, in full posses-
sion of tic means of knotting that the uneasiness
was ISUFMILI4IO;,. pOjiiiitAy abstained front ally step
calculated tn. explain to America ibeMateey of its
gnus., or to uphold, from the censure of ittiptrted
rielence and eiglort.laimi, the character Of thelf
,
vereign's quvetainent. \%'hat the motives were
which email hi:Nee them to this tleeltion of their
public duty, it were difficult to determine, bud riot
suhaameent occurrence served to solv,, tie ditS-
colty; it only could be attributed to the &maim),
wise. qf 'conalirting the effects of this mitaipprehen-
-si6st into a 'remain against their political opponents
in Farhat-ne ut. toilette the opeortunity of throwing
Mr. Madison's opinion, on that Order, to the
• teeth of those who felt it their duty to expose the
iejustice, iinennidenco, and insanity of that state's
which counneaced its operation on the nth of
November. Honourable siwl conatientems atone-
ment' for a breach af pulifie ditty ! I assure the
Noble lords thatt them Lot the irtdift-
cation of a to.uinAt ; usithet could

.

1
i

appreciate that as an advantage, which com-
promised the character and consistency of the
coutitcy." The Noble Lord nest adverted for the
clamour which had been raised upon the pretence
that in the late negociation conducted with the
American Commissioners, an intention was mani-
fested of yielding any of the maritime rights of "
this couutry. He proved the delicecy naturally at-
tached to such an arrangement, particularh upon the
right exerci ed by British ertued ships, of search-
ing for British deserters. or claiming British sailors
from on board American merchantmen. The de-
licacy was musk/trebly increased, in consequence
. of the arrangement which had taken place between
thisOnvernment and Ameries in 1801. He read the
letters of the Duke o f Portland and of Lord Hawker
bury, which forbad the condemnation, by our sub-
ordinate Prize Courts, of American shipstrading cir-
cuitously in the colonial produce of the enemy.—
He next proceeded to state the evils winch a war
with America must entail on the dearest interests
of this country, and the probable injury which
must ensue to our colonies, dept.nding as they did
for subsistenee upon the supp:ies afforded by
Nn..th America. I.7se evidence produced at the
bar of that Howse did, and would continue to
prove the evils which a perseverance in such a
ruinous system of policy must inevitably pro-
since import the manufactnring and trading jute-
re.ta of this country. He had heard an opution
eircalated abroad, that the King's Ministers
had conceived the wish. of forcing America into a
premature quarrel. under the conviction, that hos-
tilities between the countries could not he for a
I°l4 tune avoided, and that they speculated upon
the hope of destroying the Americus' form of Go-
vormuieta.—(AU Ae!from the Ministers, par-
tienlarlyfreat L9rd Hntehestuirel. .• I am happy."
said the Noble Baron, that the Noble Secretary
disavows any ouch hope. and treats the imputatiou
With such serious reprobatioa ; but of this he may
be assured, that such a euinisor has been strongly
and generally circulated abroad." After a variety
of cogent and able observations. the Noble Baron
commeitted on the trite policy of looking to the new
world for the counterprise to the military strength
and aggrandisement of France on the Continent
of Europe. It was with such a conviction that
Ile reviewed. with feelings of satisfaction, the emi-
gration of the Portugutwe Government to South
Appetite. In those days of revolution and of
eh:lnge, he hail coutemplated, with sentiments of
pride, those improvenients winch the progress of
the arts had produced, in extending the intercourse
between civilized end distant nations, and which
contributed to effect such an ainelionited change
in the moral and physical condition of mankind.—
In every stew of the case, he was inclined to give
the preference to the ueutrality of America, rather
Ciao to her co-operation with Great Britain in hos-
tilities against France. At all events, should that
power be forced out of her present and true line of
policy, let it be in consequence of the violence and
exactions of France. If forced into a war against
that power, Great Britain will enjoy all the Nlne-
hts arisitig from the public spirit and republican
ardour of the American people. Should even the
American Government acquiesce in the views of
France. and dueler.. under such circumstances,
io their favour, that feeling of hostility against us.
amongst the people, will be totally disarmed of
ail its violence and poignancy. The Noble Lord
coorieded his able speech by moving the following
Resolutions:
1. That is apron is Ohio peeve, Mat Rio Majesty Midi
bets selasilb voklissio say Ward preaoesassi fires tlis
Elied gala et itaireieu,te ism Graces Cesecil, eo sad

abetment htthe Iltb urNeesinhar, may, fee interrupting
nearly the whole of the comment of the said States with
the Centime of Escape ; ere limiting each trade to be cu-
rled ea, in future, through British pees may, (with the ea-
teries of seirral and allied ports its creak emesi) thereby
warm* it to such restrictions and ditties, sad seem pool&
hellos% as the Omorriment of Great Britain mg thbeh it le
horn* open it; sod for camisole* the parody af the
deems at the said Rasa, its all cams whose Me moo rail
be atrompasied dy portimear documents, certHyiag tbe plats
of its 'north or ineashetwe.
2. That it appears to this Ham, that racism to the
Munoz of the • 'id Orders is Conned, • Negotiates had
Lees carried •••i between this Colliery and the Veiled States
if America, '.,r the maratmaane of pence end friendship
between these ; siol that • Treaty had bees actually sigwe
respecting same of the mot neteri. 1 robes is demises ,•
that a desire had bees minreseed by the Government of the
mid t r head %titre, fee the ....Whim of certain oiler prowl.
sines to the mid Treaty, and that a proposal was mink for
mettaing the Negotiation fur that purpose ; bet that this
We was abruptly aad inteanierstely rejected by His Ma-
jesty's illinistena
This allele tear. sites the said °Ake weer *mei, His
aliMe',Diameters had recently retied front the Ministers
tailtedi /Mr hi this kitigdoin, amoranees that the in.
=Doman of Hie Majesty's enemies
elm, is any rat tastasee, brim executed against the
maunder sr amogation of tie l'aited State and that fries
MI that had psiewelhabsequest to the imbuing of the said De-
frees, His Allaratyusllneisturs had every reason to conclude,
that my attempt of the enemy so to e;r4. er the imam, would
be dondedly method hr the Government of the Felted States;
whereby it swot bare barreassel, either that the said De-
ems wadi have matinsed to be wholly nugatory and incl.
fretual, or that the enemy, by eneleavouriag to enforce the
/Milt. would Maw deers the l oiled Stems into* closer con-
asst.. • dh thin emmte.
4. That it appease to des Hauer, that the Order Mined by
His Majesty is Coieit, ea the 7th ef. JsmeatTe 11,%7% wait
not late...dial to iaterropt Neutrals in • enamerce of dis-
t harry from Poet to Part if the amemyN territories ; that
tacit mas maimmumienee isipteuimbintion Aer those
who *ere is His Majesty% weir' at the time she mid Order
as Muted, aod that as caramelise to that of MN tires
to them to the Danish Minestet, 4 as official Note, dated.
tie 17th of Mardi mer.
That in • Note Areasthe American Xereary of State to
Mr. ii.Liwr, dated on the deli of the saute month, consi-
derably ooensiarar was expressed, made as apprelienem of
a rotstrary interpeotatiee of the read Order, mod that the
she, • noentiosiivi 'tots was actual y received by His Ma-
jesty's prem at Ministers is the'mouth of April last.
Trt that we iwYpsi hoe beet takes threes uptathe pee.
sat hour, fur nowevieg the safoomied apprehemelmasef the
Amenran Germinate, as • rite to which they error it
lite attached so smell importaare
And that by thismii-sioa, mach sameresary irrit4ha hat
beep metered to pm ail in Amoebas, bog after it was he the
power of His Majesty's Ministers to Mere effeemilly re.
cawed the solar' and fresh obstacte% to remealistioaell
friendship bar* thins wentualy been ssiespired.
s. That it is, therefore, the oriole of this Home, that
the said Order. are in themselves esjeot nail impolitic ; that
the easing of limo at the teas, sad mule the cirmainstames
above.wentiesed, was as art tithe atniast hoprivedesee and
rashean : mad that, by shemptly breehimg of a frioadly se.
tociaten, and withholdirs • ardisfaetery rstdanation oft •
point, es wllado it niirtit lays been given a ith so much ease
sad yam/Ware, iflis Mertes'. Minister" bane :.tied to dart.
pied agar Om policy, which is to cultivate the friendlier
of a seem, whose iuteresm and prosperity are so intimately
interwore2 with per own : and hare ceitducted themselves in
• masse the least adapted to umiak lie Niajesty tw 4ainy

trio that maritime snperionty, oa abieli the greatness sad
emu theiewisteute of havEjspire au such cispeaa.
The Earl of Wrairsioatatsio--" It has been
stated, thatthe Orders in Couucil have been the
destdiction of American commerce ; that they
have alienated Ameiica,- so far as to mulanger a
war with that country ; that they have annihilated
British trade, and are contrary to the Law of Na-
tions. I shall consider how far 'this is a true de-
scription, and whether these consequences are not
properly to be attributed to our predecessors, and
not to us, whom they accuse as their authors. In
doiu3 this, my Lords, it will be neeeissary for me
to consider the state of the country, as my Noble
Friends found it on their entrance into office.—
The Order of Blockade of 180(i had been passed,
and also the Order of Council of January, 1807.
—By the former of these measures the commerce
of one-half of Europe had been completely inter-
, dieted, and by the latter the direct trade of all
I neutrals had been totally prohibited. It 'mastitis
ed, in fact, to a total confiscation of all neutral
trade. Russia. for instance, could carry on no direct
trade with Constantinople, nor with Cadiz, nor
with Brest. It was this measure, therefore, that
alienated Russia—that led to the destruction of '
Portugal--aiid finally rendered the attack on Co-
penhagen absolutely. necessary. The blame, there-
fore, does not lie with us, but with our accusers ;
who, though they have done tines, do not hesitate
to reproach the present Ministers as the authors
of thus state of things. - Bet nothing can be a
greater misrepresentation than such charges. The
Orders in Council, so far from having such a tett-
deucy, are a system of conciliation. So far from
being calculated to destroy British Commerce, they
constitute a system for its restoration. All British
commerce was destroyed.—France prescribed what
rule* she pleased, and they eatispuntersoi no resist-
ance. it therefore became necessary to adopt these
()niers its Council, for the purpose of restoring us
to that situation, from which we had been removed
in the time of those who now impute that state of
things to His Majesty's present Ministers. But it
has been imputed to us as a crime, that we did uot
explaiu the Order in Council of Jan. 1807 to Mr.
Madison. The fact, however, was, that an an-
swer was daily expected from America, until which
time a satisfactory explanation could not be given ;
.and it was thought better to await that answer, than
prematurely to enter into a discussion which might
excite an hostile feelin► . and certainly could not
lend to a satisfactory result. Had any explanation
been given, I should nut, however, have hesitated
to have said that it was meant as a mitigated act
of retaliation. It wise not, I contend. for Eng-
land, possessing such naval superiority and pre-
eminence, to resoatu_silent and patient under her
wrongs, without taking one step to redress her inju-
ries, hut depending entirely for the restoration of
her rights upon the feeble efforts of neutral nations.
All that my Noble Friends have done has bees
with this temper, and for this skiect, total') Tree
from all hostile or angry feeling. There is nothing
of that character in their conduct; and I contend
that the late Ministers, in their mode of conducting
the treaty that has been returned froin America.
unratified, did more to • irritate and provoke the
American People than could possibly be effected by
those Orders of Council of which they so much com-
plain. It is well known that the American Coin-
missioners remonstrated that they had not powers
to enter into such a treaty, and that they were
only persuaded, upon the promise of the British
Commissioners (Lords Auckland sad Holland) of
forbearance in the exercise of those strong mess
sures which had been adopted, although no such
forbearance actually took place.
Lord AUCULAND ridiculed the idea of applying
the Order in Conned of January, 1807, as appli-
cable to the state of things at the present moment.
With respect to the charge of duplicity in con-
ducting the Treaty, he said it was not founded in
fact. Nothing could be more fair and open than
the conduct of both parties in that business. Two -
more candid and iugenuous men than Mr. Pinck-
ney and Mr. Munroe he never met in the course
of his fife, and a particle tending to excite acri-
mony or or tainted with the slighted wish
to over-reach or deceive, never existed during the
whole of their conferences. It was, therefore,
with surprise, he found himself and his Noble Col-
league in that business, charged with haying held
out a promise of "forbearance;“ as an inducement
to the American Commissioners to come to a con-
clusion. lie pledged himself *that no such expres-
sion had ever been used fly him or his Noble
Friend. [Here his Lordship read extracts from
the printed papers. which . fully supported his
Lordship's statement, and from which it appeared,
that the word had been used iu one of the Notes in
the Correspondence of the American Commis-
sioners, and not by his Lordship.] With respect to
the treaty, though it was returned, it did not thence
follow that the negociation ought to have been
oroken off. Ile knew Mr. Jefferson well, having
been intimately acquainted with him two years is
Paris, and he was confident that the alterations
made as amendments to the Treaty, were his hand-
writing; but those amendmentswere not insurmount-
able object ions to 11 Treaty. They were thrown out as
ft sulijoets of disetneston. `sink yet were omit beck; as
not fit to be entertained upon any account. Ili,
Lordship entered into various other livid', and con-
cluded +nth derlasing it as his opinion, that the Se-
cretary of State for Foreign Affairs ought to have
sent hack a more codciliatory answer.
The Eartof Diatsmsv expected something new
from the Noble !tools nn the opposite side of the
Howe, but, instead of that, he heard only the old
stwy—rerriasinstion. He emiclitdeel by observ-
ing, that the resonator's met with his decided ap-
peobation.
The Earl of LAIIDERIME said. he had not in.
tended to have troubled their Lordships any mare
on this subject, a it had been most ably discussed
by his Noble Colisugues—but what fell from the
Solite Lord opposite to lion, by way of invective,
and to raise a Liugh twaiiist the late Ministers,
indikaid his to break silence. The Noble Lord
had stated, th.it the en:el attack ou Copenhagen
was caused by Ili, Nlaiesty's late Ministers: The
arziometst that had Lccii adduced to prove it., was
ton *Trail to require 311 .1/I.lllCl'. and hr would pa-s
the tissertion with what it deser.cil, contempt.
But the great question for the Noble Lords to
consider u as. erlirther the in•a:u re of the late
Orders of Ctuto it was a iv(.i one or nut

Withoet touching on its policy as to the Continent
of Europe, be would speak of America aloae...
The Orders 01 Coated were the cause of the eta-
in Ause.riase it was proved at the Bee of
tblialMossee, ..yesteedily, .on oath, that the Orders of
Council were 4U011121 before the embar;;o had taken
place. Ho could not consider that measure in any
other light but es • wise one of America. If .he
had not dimwit the Order; of Council would have
carried all her ships, eugageil iu Foreign trade,
lido the ports of this country ; it' they were only .
carried in. and detained, it would bring on nego-
tiation, and if it failed, war would be the couee-
quence, and what would follow ? The Whole of their
shipping wonlil be sent into the Prize Court,ttot
condemned. It was ridicalous in His Majesty's Mi-
nisters to assert they do ant believe the Orders of
Council were known in America before the embargo. ,
They were known in this country long before they
aline out with the Minieters' muctiou. Ile could
aver, that he had read them iu the public prints,
long antecedent to their official appearince, and
a better weaned of them he had never seen since.
At the period when the late Administration went
nut of ot4ee, negotiations were carrying on wit ,
fair prospect of a speedy adjaistinent of all differ-
ences with America: and wheu Mr. Itlattion'a
Note of the tfeth March wan received by Ins Ma-
jesty's present Ministers, requesting an exphtnatiou
of the Order of Commit of the 7th of January
1807, instead of giving an insulting answer, why
did not Ministers center with his Noble Friend,
Lord llowiek, who would have gircm them its pro-
per definition ? or if they did nut like that, why
not call for the assistance of the J udge-Advocate,
as his Notate Friend bad done on a business some-
thing similar? But the fact was, that His Ma-
jesty's present advisers felt they had no etiology for
their coodnct, and they were attempting every
hole they thought they could creep out of.
Lord MULCltave spoke at considerable length,
in answer to Lord Holland. He contended, that,
the Orders i.if Council could not have been kuowu
in A mericain time to ilium the embargo, and thatt
that measure grew out of the recollection of the
Order in Council, of the 7th of January, Iso7. He
admitted that it was stated; on oath, at the Bar of
the House, en the preceding day, that a letter from
this country had reached Boston prior totted event,
but that it was iinpossible that it could have pro-
dared such a result. The effects .of these
Orders, he contended, were beneficial to the
country. Before they were issued, sugar and
other colonial produce, were cheaper in France
than in England ; but the case is reversed
now, and by the operation of these 111CalltIreS, IIUgUE
is now four times dearer in France than in Eug-
laud. The testimony of the witnesses examined at
the Bar, he admitted, went to prove that their
trade had been injured by the Orders in Council,
but the effect, he contended, would he more fairly'
ascribed to their on n ingenious speculations. They
declined to export to America, as usual, from an
apprehension that these Orders would produce a'
war with that country, but they had not vet pro-
du cad that effect; and if it never should take place,
they would have none to blame for their losses but
theutreives. As to the probability o 1 such a war, it
was a subject on which lie did oast wish to speak,
and ought not to be touched but with the greatest
delicacy. He did not despair of its beiogavoided, when
he reflected how much America mead bee lever li'y
such a proceeding ; 11.2 would be sorry, however, it
Should be th•ugtit that we would press hupon
America, rehiaig upon the probability of diss
inclination to make resistance. In estimating the
probability of the event, .we could not, however,
leave out of our calculation, that all her resources
were derived from her Customs; that, with the ex-
ception of the Post Office, she had none other ;
that a war with this country would sweep all these
resources away, awl that it would grievously
distress the country to supply their place by
taxation.

Lord Ggsaviu.a-...5i lily Lords, the mode in
which a Noble Bad (Westmorland) and the Noble
Lord who sits next to him (Moderate) have thought
fit to answer the arguments of my Noble Friend,
must excite no little surprise. Every thing rele-
vant to the subject-matter before the House--mery
thing in tim slightest degree relevant to the resolu-
tion of my Noble Friend, they have studiously
eluded, and for argonnent to refute his reasoning,
they fly to subjects the most remote from the ques-
tion, and which have not the slightest con-
nection whatever with the matter in debate. A No-
ble Friend, near me (Lord Auckland) has. with
great propriety, stated, that the Orders in Council,
u connected with America, constitute the question
before the House. and that it is only in relation to
that country and this they are now proposed to
be discussed. But although the ground is thus
explicitly marked, and laid down, the Noble FAA,
and the Noble Lord who has just tat down, evince
their propensity t• wander from their way, and iu-
stead of looking to America. they fly to the other
extremity, and take shelter in Russia. They re-
proach His Majesty's late Ministers with miscon-
duct to Russia, with having alienated that power.
and made necessary the attack upon Denmark.
Which has fixed a stain upon the cli:.racter of this
casontry. awl useful it with ludebtle disgrain.—
That the Noble Earl and the Noble Lord should
have recourse to matter so irrelevant andextratteous
mac well indeed excite surprise. They sorely
could not MOM it as argument. But I admit it s
characteristic of their habitual propensity to divert
the attention of the House from the real question,
sod that it may grati4- their unifotnt desire to cast
reflections upon, those who preceded them in office..
As, however, the subject of Russia has been intro-
duced, and in such a way, (trust I may make a few
observations, without incurring the censure which
attaches to those who have unnecessarily brought
. it forward. I ask, what has been that conduct to
Russia with which the late Ministers are reproach-
, ed as the source ofoomuch sail ? Russia applied to
them for a loon of six millirem the payment of it to
he g urinated by the British Government. All the
circumstances of that priapasition are before the
•House. the official documents, detailing the whole
transaction, having been priuted, and now upon
your Coroislips' table. Upon this subject, however, I
contend.that from the conditionson which this sum
was demanded, it would be. puerile to roll it k loan,
and that it was in fact a subsidy ; and when the
state of the country is considered at the time this
applicatisu was made, I am eanlideutthere is not a

man who hears ine who would think it wise 0,14
to have granted 'it. • But it was not merely se
lions to he giotronieed. by: dielltritish (Severna.
that was sought flit, ft Wits further required, on
should be furnished at Hite per cent. an interea
which t:doubt wlethir -Ministers will be able
borrow intmey tbe.,oilir owe tire. Before thee
should consent to Else team which must add bait
n ytliteth'ltte Ikea of the country, it stir
because nor dutrlo consider, whether the goon
be purchased would compeosate•for.the evil ul
great an addition to the public burdens, end
the consequences that must resu:t from wringi
so large a sum from the people. Lut it min
said, if this sum were - too large, why not gis,
renal ler'snna, corresponding with our mean,.
master to this is very simple and Glorious.
smaller hum Was not naked, and it was time clot
when it aus asked to take it into considerate.
For uiy own purl, I am free to confess, that 1 an
then, and ant still of op iuion—an opinion which I
464:ye rem ct*llcatrues entertained to comma!' wit!
ufit--that after the fatal battle of Au:ALl:its hr.
effectual good could be done for Europe by son,.
dies, and even if they could he attended with an.
vantage, 1 am confident that nothing could josh.
fro his Majestee Ministers in making so Large au
addition to the Public burdens, at a renew.
able and well-fideutled expectation, that it would
give a decisive turn to the war upon the Continent.
—That no touch effect could have been pro.
duced, I believe, win' not be contended ; but
if any Noble Lord entertains 'a different old.
Mom, I am ready to meet him upon that grouts!
We have been reproached, however, as if our cos
ee.pontlence with Russia were uothing hut a se:ai
of reloads to that- country, and with having tits
-titictly told her that now she was become a
party in the war, she must look to her own meals
:and resources. With respect to the amount e.
tenus of' the proposed loan, I do repeat that tlicr
were unreasonable, and such as I never heard asa
man say ought to have been complied with; lei;
though we-did net think it wise to grant the rt.
quest,. there were other modes by which Rono
might hnve tried to attain her purpose. lusted
of ninkilig terms for herself, 'why did. she net go
into the nomey-marlet like any individual alas
waists to borrow money: IN that case she might
mime money on the best terms she could, and the
way wail open to her ; but as to the argumetit that
Russia was sow become a inaiu party to the war,
and must deiresid• upon her own resources, I tbini
it is well-flsmuled. IV lien Russia was called upon
as an auxiliary to transport armies to the fronton,
of France, there might he a good reason for gru:-
log dulls:dies, because they could actually enai.4
her to occouiplish that purpose ; but in the pre.
sent case, the Russians were upon their own
tiers. Itussin wanted no money to enalble her!l
t rampart her troops to a distant pant. They se-t
upon their own temtory, where, as principals is
the war, they ought to maintain themselves upos
their own ground. So fur for the pecuniary pan,
of our csinduct femme Huai*, so severely vete',
stated, lay the Noble Lords now is antler..—{
Upon the wisdoms, the "policy, and the propriety,.
I ant now prepared and' ready to meet any sat
who would call them in question. As to the m►
litary part, it has comae out, from all inquiry and
discussion, more triumphantly than I expected. I
use this expression, not because I must not hart
known the strength of the case from the begin-
ning, but I mean that I could not have expected
that the notoriety of the merits could be so grail
as to produce the general conviction and Unpin..
'ion which I find they have made upon the public
mind, where so much pains were taken to more-,
preseut them. Among the arguments made use,
of for the purp.ise by the Noble Lords in office,
it has been said that we ought to hare sent m
army• to the Baltic, to eo-operate with the Rus.
sians. Now, there is qiie: little thing which these
Noble Lords overlook, in their haste to find fault
with our military's% stein—l wean the season.
They forget that it pie-toed His Majesty to change
his Ministers in the month of March, and that
we had no opportunity, except between October
and Marsh, of sending an army to the Contiiieut.
Now, I do not hesitate to say, and I am prepared
to maintain, ii contra4icted, that in that interval
and top to the last-daf we reinaitied is office, a "is.
pole opportunity did not occur of sending ail arne
to the Continent, and that in the then state
things it would have been, not only madness, ha:
highly criminal, to have attempted it. In the
last, the very last days of March, I grant, iu tie
last fortnight, there were appearances which might
Induce souse slight doubt, tut all subsequent to-
formation and experience have prated, that three
cite:waste/wets were fella. ious, and that a force .1
1.3,000 British troops, if sent to the Continent,
mold have made no sensible impression • on tit
theatre of war iu Poland, and would be suffivielptif
employed by the French army that remained Le-
hind on the roost of Germany. This lam ilk
to state upon the authority of a military recr,
who wig sent to the Contiuent for the empress
purpose of watching the operations of the Laos
pogo, and whose judgment and knowledge octal
he questioned. It was the opinion of my Lord
Hutchinson,. that a British army might be lei sled
- with effect at Stralsund, and hence those doaLts
which I admit exissed at the cud of March ; but
when Lord Hutchinson, who was at a distance
Overt he first inclined to this opinieo, came to tie
spot, with better means of information, his Lord-
ship soon changed his opittion, and wrote home tll3'
it would be madness at. 4 folly to send a force to ths
. Continent, as there was not a chance thet a sine
man of it would ever return. Indeed it was net
acknowledged by all parties, that it would have
been ridiculous to expect that a British force or s
British subsidy, sent in the month of March hot,
could have stopped the course of events which het
since taken place. The Russians were not over'
'lowered in consequence of the want of either of
these aids. Vast as the armies and the reeourto
are of that great empire, those means . were net
sufficiently prepared, her resources not rightly pre-
sided, nor all her energies folly called forth to meet
the power of France, which, notwithstanding tl,
immense population of Russia, had contrived, 0:
calling troops from the remotest countries of
Europe. to out-ouruher the Ituesian armies aro
their own frontier. Ido believe, that by flee esti'
ordinary activity of th enemy, the French arw:et
teceeded the kiiissiems Pa the proportion of 3 to

_-...01111

Ark
ma,
I.eat
14t 4
'at it
t
lIIt
'rely
ki to
uf 9
giu
dell
111
ve a
The
A
nigh
11011.

rer-
r of
nee
net

but it was not merely t numerical superiority that
they had to boat:. ; the French ollieent, from
length, variety, and constancy of service, had
greatly
v the advantage of their adversaries ; and
though we all are ready to admit the patience,
courage, and other qualifications of the Russian
soldiers, airt afraid, that from the same causes to

Which the French. officer* owed their superiority,
the Russian soldiers were not equal to those op-,
posed to them in battle. An English subsidy, or
an English force of 25,000 men, could not have
Ildpp:ied this difference, aud it was the conscious-
ness of this inequality that induced the Emperor of
Russia to put an end to a war, which, if protracted, i
would have only added disaster to disaster, and
increased every day the difficulties of this coun-
try, by extending her responsibility, a. 4 the ally of a
tiatioirdaily suffering with her in one common cause.
1 have now enswered the irrelevant matter that has
been so strangely brought forward in a question,
the real merits of which have been so ably discussed
by my Noble Friends. I shall not trouble your Lord-
ships with many more observations. Your Lordships
Lave heard the testimony delivered at your bar, in
which the embargo is attributed, net as has been
strangely asserted, to the conduct of the late Mi-
nisters, but to the Orders in Council. Until, how-
ever, the whole of that testimony is gone through,
unit its various bearing may be considered in
all their relations, it would be premature to enter
into it ; but when the opportunity arrives of dis-
cussing it with effect, I have no doubt your Lord-.
ships will take it into your consideration. Enough,
however, 1 think, has been proved, to spew that
the Embargo was produced by the Orders its Celin-
a'. It has been proved, that one letter, anuouac-
ing these Orden, reached Boston before the Embar-
go took place. But it is not merely the case of one
letter. shone letter reached in that time, I may
fiiirly presume that twenty to the same eflect were
teemed ; and indeed, I may thank my Noble
Friends (Lords Auckland aid Holland, who sat
near him), for suggesting, that, in many instances,
letters, Announcing these Orders, were received at
***rend places nearer than Boston to. the seat of
Coveruwent ; and that, in fact, the American Mi-
nister arrived from this country with the full know-
ledge of the measure before the Embargo was laid
an. When. them the whole of the testimony has
been received, it will Le col:metes:it for your Lord-
ships to determine whether these Orders in Council
have been attended with the most injurious con-
setinences to trade, or whether these alleged cons
sequences be, as the Noble Lord ties asserted,
nothing but the ingenious speculations of our
merchants ? It will then appear whether they
complain without season, end do not understand
their interests so well as His Majesty's Ministers,
who have kindly undertaken to manage their
hnsinessletter than tkey could do it for themselves.
But it is said. that though the Orders in Council
were known in America prior to the embargo, they
were iimpemtise, and, that measure was the result
of the Order in Commit, of January, 1807. This,
indeed, is most strange reasoning ; but the Noble
Lords are satiafiell with any thing, no matter whet,
provided it comity, a censure upon the late Minis-
ters. let as see, however, how the fact stands,
and upon what grounds the Order of Jan. 1807,
remained for a whole year without producing any
effect, aud then made itself known, for the first
time, in the measure of embargo. The feat is, that
the Order was drawn up by the King's Advocate,
en able Law Officer ; and though it only prohibited
the coasting trade, it was not sufficiently clear to
foreign nations that the prohibitionrlid not extend
to the direct trade from one neutral port to an-
other. Denmark and America. construing the
Order in the latter sense, remonstrated against it.
explanation was given to Denmark, but none
to America, and it is of this I must complain, and
tins conduct I mast coudemu in the most
pointed terms. The Order in 0=1%61, of
January, I iso7, in its real meaning, con-
tained nothing to offend America—and this His
Majesty's present Ministers well know. They
Last a full and satisfactory explanation to give to
America, but they refused it, and their defence is,
that it would bean insult to that country to ester
into an explanation on that point, and not to no-
tire others more near and important.—What a
monstrous position ! It is idle to say. if oos cannot
give all that is asked, that it is an insult to give all
that is in one', power. But this could not answer
the purpose of the Noble Lords. In their anxiety
toprocure charges against their predecessors, they
withhold this explanation. They could pall out
the thorn at pleasure ; but no, they suffer it
to fester and inflame, until they think proper to
clap upon it the plaister of their Orders in Council.
But supposing that they had no such explanation
in their power, and that the Order of January.
1607, prohibited the direct trade from port to port,
surely, sa the present state of the world, it was the
duty of Ministers to decline all discussion upon the
eithiect, and risk a war with America. With
respect to the treaty, which is so pointedly al-
luded to in my Noble Friend's Itesolutions, it is
now before the public, and they are competent to
decide how far the reproaches, industriously circa-
lated *Oast His Majesty's late Ministers, are
founded in troth. We were charged with the sue-
teoder of essential rights;with disi,paceful conces-
sions, with forfeiting the honour of the country.—
There is nothiregolthat sort, 1 believe, inthe treaty.
Those calumnies, then, that have been circulated
against us, are proved to be unfounded ; and I wish
I could say, that the charges against the present
Miaisters, in relation to that treaty, were equally
groundhans It is well known, that ao treaty is bind-
ing until it is ratified ; sad every man acquainted
with diplomatic affairs must confess, that nothing
is more common than to propose amendments,
alterations, addition*. and insertious, in a treaty.
after it has been signed. Taking. all the treaties
that have been made for many years. into account,
together., I will venture to say, that there is scarce-
ly one wt them that has not undergone this process.
To send back a treaty. as was done in the .wars of
the American treaty, as a thing wholly iisadmissibk
and not to be entertained, merely because it pro-
posed souse alterations. was unprecedented and un-
Justifiable. No statesman of a sound judgment.
and actuated by a siamwe deire of pence, could
have s• acted. This' I venture to evert—He ropy
take which heehooeer. If be does possess* sound
judgment, be certainly has not a sincere desire of
peace ; for, in fact, it was saying to America, a e

'brill not enter into a discussion with yen it pon these
alterations; bat by sending back the treaty as inad-
missible, we will not leave it in the power
,of the
parties to ratify it, even though these alterations
should he abandoned. The discusaion of this bu-
siness, has. however, done seine good. We were
charged not merely with makiug disgraceful con-
cessions, bat with the surrender of essentiel
rights ; but it was imputed to us as a crime,
that we were backward in going to war with
America. America, it was said, derived unfair
advantages by her neutrality, and we were
reproached fur haying let slip a gond oppor-
tunity of going to war with her. These calum-
nies were artfully and industriously. propagated
against us. and from what quarter is very well
known ; but a different feeling has been produced
by the discussiou of the business; and it is now
admitted that it would not be very desirable to go
to war with America. Let then our adversaries
take advantage of this conviction. We pledge
ourselves that we will not deal as unfairly by them
as they have dealt towards us. They reproach-
ed us with making concessions where we were
maintaining • rights. They reproached us with
yielding every thing to Ainerica, and in the next
moment with irritating America to the measure of
Embargo by our hostile conduct. Let them im-
prove the present disposition in favour of the
continuance of friendship. with America ; and in-
stead of throwing obstacles in their witty, we will
afford them every assistance in our power." His
Lordship, after some wore observations upon the
seal displayed by Ministers to seise every pretence
for censuring their predecessors, concluded a long
and eloquent speech. of which we have bevu able
to convey only a very faint ides, by observing, that,
as a Member of that house, he would ever state
his opinion openly and boldly ; that as long as we
possessed a tree Constitution, the country was
entitled to a free discussion in its Legislature;
that he aught all public discussion ought to go
out to every individual in the community ; and
that, as se individual, he wished it to go out to the
ithrld at large, as his opinion, that night, that the
Orders in Council were a ruinous measure.
Lord HAWKLIMUILY contended, that the cense-
queatres of the conduct of the late Administration
to Russia, in not supporting her, by whkb means
she camel under the influence of France, were, the
subjugation of Fertugal and Denmark, the emi-
gration of the House of Braganza to the Brazils,
and the capture of the Danish fleet. as a
measure necesioary to the safety of this country.
When a subsidy was asked by Russia, if it
was not proper to grant it to its fall ex-
tent, why net explasu, and give it in a
smaller proportion, instead of offenug a loan, upon
term. that never could be accomplished' If we
could not send them troops to advantage, they
were entitled toa subsidy ; for Russia and Sweden
were our last remaining hopes on the Continent;
they were fighting our battles, and for our exist-
ence; but so far from the late Administration
wishing to assist our Allies, when he and his
colleagues came into office, there was not any part
of the army in readiness, or concentrated in any
place, whence, if an opportunity had occurred. it
would not have taken months before it would be
ready for embarkation ; and if eves ready to em-
bark, there was not a vessel provided for the par-
pas. Tbis upathy of the country to waist its
Piasiar cesstessioli &armed thaiiia; and &vie
lber Isla the arms of France. He then took a ge-
ollnaview of the Oakes of Council, and defended
dress is necessary step of retaliation against the
instill and even that they would shew Amenca
that there was a assissate to meet the embargo, for
at the time it took. Ape, it was impossible the Or-
ders of Council should be known in that country.
He concluded by observing. that His Majesty's
Ministers would be happy, if, by negotiation, all
differences between the two countries could be !fet-
tled, and the Houseemight rest assured, that every
measure to bring it to a happy conclusion should
be adopted. In answer to the Noble Lord oppo-
site, his Lordship said, Mr. Rase did net go out to
negociate any thing beyond the affair of the Chesa-
peake, but he carried out dispatches, which were to
go through another channel, mid he entertained
hopes that when understood, they would lead to
a speedy accenunixistion.
HOLLAND VOW. to reply, but assured their
Lordships it was the farthest from his intention to
take up any great length of their time at that late
hour of the night. There were two or three points
which he felt it incumbent on him to notice ; the
hag was the note of Mr. Madison. wherein he re-
quires an explauistiou of the Order in Conned of
the 7th Jall. 1807, and states two propositions ; the
first, that it might materially injure the relations
of amity between the two countries; and the
second. as it regarded tat natural rights of
America; to neither of which did it appear
His Majesty's Nlinisters had given any answer.—
Now, how they could reconcile such conduct to
their duty to the country was for the Noble Secre-
tary to have explained, but which he had not thought
proper to do. The lieu remark he should make
was, the mis-statement of the Noble Seceetary on
what was said by his Noble Friend (Lord Gren-
ville) as to the evidence received at the Bar of the
Haase. His Noble Friend had never asserted it
had been proved on oath that the Orders in Couu-
cil of November had been the cause of the Embar-
go; but his remark was, that the evidence
bad most completely substantiated the arrival us
America of the intentions of the British Govern-
ment to issue them, several days before the passing
the Embargo Act by emigre* ; and could Minis-
ters suppose such information would not be emu-
lated' in the speediest manner throughout the
United States? Their Lordships must know
it too well to require any argument in support
of such an idea. His Lordship then al-
luded to the Tteety enteral Into by his Noble
Finned (Ateeklevidi and himself, on the part of
this country, and the .Ceesasiassoners authorised
by the Government et the United States, which
1 treaty, he maiutaissed, else highly ad, antagenus to
both entintrire ; sad es fey *my points net comm.;
under the wenn of these on which they had ne-
gociated,lllofiajerey's late Ministers had given
every assurance of their willingness to chemise these
topics w ith the greatest sincerity. He was glad to
bear from the Noble Secretary of State an acknow-
ledgment of the anxiety' of hie :ilajeete's present
Ministers to eater into a negotiation for the set-

tlement of oil disputes between the two Govern-
ments, and hoped it would bring about so very
suable an oliject.
The beiag loudly called for, the House
divided;

Fur the Motion, es—Against it, 53—Majority, as.
Atter the division, the Motion relative to the Expeditmo
to tunstaatioople, of which End liner had gives Notice,
ucc postponed, ear die, un account of the dangerous
positive of Sir H Grey, ►is Lordship's suede
It was also agreed to bear toideoce us Friday au s Mon-
day next, upon the blauchester sod Liverpool
Adjourned at ON E LOCK this rnawsiag.