The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1803-03-05 00:00:00

z ~ ~%'

~I
. I
N~

I\

tt
t

1

V

~,

1

irk;

K'

~'-

MIII=;

i s sz^ nts.s. l'ot his 5.:A;n" Jinis Royal
Lim With th4l
ojuszly
anti-
ti 7 himseit: The p,r..mt was diitsoaly made
strpose of sesternation, and was never meant
. : :gned to be accttniuiated. I.f, on the other
. 4110, ey was expended f6r public service,
• tat the Prince had, notwithstanding, now no -'
7-1-n e-thrr upon-his Majesty or the House of Com-
tin still it v:oulsl44ovv, that now, at finty years
: age, the Prince s 4 Wales was in that situation,
lie did rretewe one shilling to the public. Ac-
coiding to life si4orthent made by the Chancellor of
the Exchequer, fivetHndred and sevent)tsfl VC thousand
pounds had, within eight years, been paid of his debts
,out of his own revenues ;_ for the full sum settled on
him by Parliament, in 1795, was nb more than what
was, aleemed necessary for a Prince of IVales to
possess, even were he ;nit involved in debt; so that
eill-.ole payments were made from himself, and not
theriblic. That his Majesty's Message was not a
coriaproniise, and hail° connedion with the claims of
-ton :o the' arrears of the Duchy 4-Cornwall,
was perfectly true; but if it was thought right to
a-estore him to' his state a::l dignity immediately,
the 'eniPiwY...proferred was lit to be entertained by
the House of Coindsons ; its to the Prince him-
self, Ile felt ncishereaterest nor anxiety about the
emitter, any farther. n thi fear of his honor being
campremised, if the iupposition should go abroad,
Shit he had hint respiyed.the bounty of the House,
and afterwards did not re-a.ssume that pomp and
state for wlich it seemed to bO intended.
Mr. FULLER made no doubt but it was the in-
tention of our wi.e and prudent ancestors to place
the heirs to the Crown in 4 skit:akin of indepen-
dence on their fathers. Ihis was an example, and a
principle which their descendants should not lose
sight of. It would be painful to see a King take
1:7,1) Ministers from favour. and invest them with
great dignity and power, while his son and heir was
left in a kind of inglorious obscurity. All that was
now demanded was to submit the claims upon
the Prince's honour to a Committee of that
House; and he would ask, could any thing be fairer?
could he aPpear in a more virtuous and estimable
point of view, than when he said that he was NI il-
ling to forego all the state and magnificence belong-
ing to his exalted station, until the payments of those
debts which he found binding on his honour ? 'I be
deduesions made from the fair claims of his zredi-
tors, must be binding on his honour. Amongst
many tradesmen in this situation, he would mention
Mr. Needham, a...coach-maker, whose claims had
been investigated. Being asked,whether he could
mention what was the...prime-cost ? he said it was im-
possible for him to ransack the whole of the ac-
counts ; but he could give the prime-cost upon
the last two quarters. Tliis -he did, stating at the
same time, what was a fair profit `for a tradesman ;
the equity of the demand was readily allowed by
the Commissioners, and thouht perfectly reason-
able; notwithstanding which, teey afterwards made
him submit to a deduction of 101. per cent. upon
his debt. Had Mr. Needham carried such a case
before a Court of Justice, there could be no doubt of
his having a verdict for the whole of the demand.
Ilc confessed that he might be rather too usrm
-expres,ing his feelings upon the present occasion,
and though he seldom troubled the House, he man
thank them fur the attention they were pleased to
show him. 'they would, be hoped, excuse the
ardour of his zeal, when on the subject of the just
claims of a Pi Mo., the most eltgantsminded, the
most manly, anci most accomplished in the world.
Mr ( ARTIVRIGHT observed, that though
there might be reason to expel some such motion
as the present, he did not think the House could
very consistently go any farther than it had done,
unless it-could yet be believed that the vote was, as
stated by some geatlemen, a compromise between
the Prince and the public. With resped to any
aukwardness in which gentlemen may suppose his
Royal Highness to be placed, he, with all his re-
aped for him, could not be induced to believe that
the public reverence towards him would be in the
least diminished by his remaining sometime longer,
if necessary, in his present situation.
[Thi; Gentleman spoke in so low a tone of voice,
that it was impossibls, in the gallery, to coiled the
whole of what lie delivered.]

wk

Mr. ROBERT BUXTON reminded the House,
that the Prince, on more than one occasion, since the
grant was made, had expressed his gratitade for
their liberality. Ile was satisfied with it, and meant
no further to pursue his petition of right; and certainly
there was great credit due to him for the manner in
which he was pleased to relinquish it. But this was
no common or trivial case, and he found himself in
•duty bound to speak as a Representative of the pee- ,
pie, who had at heart the interests.of his Constituents.
He did not see that the people were in a condition
to pay any addienal bur hens. It was true that we
were not at present in* state of actual war, but it
would be adifficult matter to -say, how far we were
removed -from it. Not one of the taxes imposed
during the war, had the country been re-
3ieved from, except the Income Tax. He highly
approved of the removal of that oppression and
hurthen ; but it must at the same thee be sei»ent-
hered that other very inconvenient taxes on the
Assessments were 'voted in the lieu of it. IN kite he
said this, he did not mean to complain of the new
Assessed Duties, because he considered them as ne-,
:cessary ; 'but he could not without complaint and
Tesietance at this time contemplate any further bur;
'them. When. • was it that these grants Wert •
proffered to made to his Royal HighneSs ?At
the very potiod, when a rival, and he feared hostile
country, Wasted of havirg 500,000 'ilea in readiness
to attecl us, and when it was distinilly stated by the
Trench..t.oveniment that England was no longer in
a condhcon to cope sir,Tly with France'! We knew
from experience that England was able to contend,
and seccessfulliy too, against all Europe in arms;
'brit the time of making those menaces was the mo.
ment not for unnecessary or idle disburseineet, but
,creoriumv. As to his Royal Highness hifnself, he
.conceived that he would reflea most credit on him-
-r.elf, by remaining in his present situation until his
difficulties were removed ;• he would find it 'the
.Ineans•cif obtaining the sdtiirest of all theories in due
time—that of reigning in the hearts et- his people ;
'Ana urn these gmunds he would take the liberty of
oving :p
_melons Q4est ion..
OURWEN-said, he felt hinnielf disposed to
(concur iti the •fornier : vote of the Holm, on the
,groutsd of a deht anedgd to be .tine fruits the
cotultry 'to the Prince of Wales. If 'Ng Royal
Wglnzesi found hiletgelfsitillinvohas‘lu debt*, ia.401,_
se.;vence of the deductions made on .the demand!
‘ii hi. )umegt creditors, it may be .very right ir.him

,

•

. •
•
to'pay,ihiel, bat he believed the people would not
fouls d much disposed to submit to burthens
which the, might think imposed upon theta for
the support of any extravagance. If them was any
thiag concealed, let those gentlemen who wire
in the Eectet come ' out .with it in an open manner.
Parliament, he hoped, on the pounds yet laid
down, would hardly
_consent to retrace its steps,
after having done so much already. Besides, there
might possibly occur something difiagreeabk in the
appointment of a Committee. if the Committee
should find that some of these debts were not right
or proper, it could scarcely be expetied that the
Parliament would pay them. He could not con-
ceive that such a measure was called for, or that
the Prince should he compelled either to disclose
what he- might wish m withhold, or find himself re-
duced to the ungracious alternative of refusing it.
It would also wear something of a harsh, and even
cruel appearance, if Parliament should first e!cite
his hopes, and afterwards find itself, under the dini-
greeable necessity of disappointing them. He
trusted that no one would swipe& him of the slighest
disrespeCt fur drat illustrious personage, when tic
duty compelled him to irote for the previous ques-
tion, though, he ,would rather have met the Motion
with a dire negative.
Mr. HILLIARD, as an independent Member of
Parliament, thought it incumbent on him to eVlain
his reasons for thinking that it wits not impossible
to entertain this Motion. This country, whatever
other dangers it may be threatened with, had al-
ready found great relief in the repeal of the Incorne
Tax. The Prince expressed 'his thanks. for what
had already been done for him, but added, at the
same time, that it was not sufficient to enable him
to resume his state immediately. There was one
consideration not yet adverted to, which had great
weight with him. In contemplating the event of
the demise of the Crown, it must 'be an obje& to
every one, that the Heir to the Throne should ac-
cede to it, free and unfettered with any debts or in-
cumbrances which tend to lower him in the esti-.
illation of his subje&s ; and this consideration would
probably decide his vote on this occasion.

Sir ROBERT BUXTON said a few words in
explanation.
Mr. JOHNSTONE declared, that he rose to
express his decided disapprobation of the original
motion, at the same time that he did not yield to
any one in attachment to his Royal Highness the
Prince of Wales, and hoped, that when called to
the the one. ,ofhis ancestors, he would.continue to the
people the sarnehlessingsthoy enjoyed under the long
and auspicious reign of his Royal father. He could
not, however, forget that our expenditure was at
present, though professedly and apparently, in a
state of peace, no less than forty millions, and that
the revenue was scarcely, if at all, in a condition to
defray it. A contest appeared to be impending,
which threatened the very existence of the country,
and, under such circumstances, when new burthens
were proposed, he at least expeCted to hear what
was the necessity for imposing them. Was the na-
tion, he would ask, in a better situation now than
m the year 179.5, when these restrictions were laid
upon the income of his Royal Highness. It he
were disposed to detain the attention of the Ilouse,
he thought it might easily be proved, that there was
then a much greater necessity than at present for
supporting the state and dignity of the Royal Fa-
mily. There was then a considerable disposition
per wading many classes of the community, in favour
of new doOrines, and jacobinical principles. This
disposition was, in at least a great degree, now
dissipated, and why should we at present be tak-
ing a different course ? Were the House to make
new grants at this time, they would be so many vio-
lations of the pledges given by his Royal Highness
in 1793, and at subsequent periods, that he would
contract no more debts. After the claims to the
arrears of the Duchy of Cornwall revenues, sub-
mitted to the House on the 20th of March, the bu-
siness should properly have gone before a court of
justice, and he was not aware of any mischievous
consequences that would arise from it, especially as it
was maintained that the surplus money was expended
in the public service, which would justify his Ma-
jesty in calling on his Parliament .to reimburse it.—
[At this time and others in the course of this speech,
there was a good deal, of coughing, and other in-
terruption, but the Hon. Member proceeded.]
That the claims of these arrears were not proceeded
in, he maintained to be, because they would not
amount to a suns sufficient for the purpose.

The money allowed to Le received and claimed as t.
arrears during the Prince's minority, ma; 134,000
Between 1771, and ilnt Prin:o coming of av,
was advanced the suntof 1P3,000

At'ether pelio4l4 50,0091. and 21,0001. making 'a
total of 194,000
Additig to this .:31. per annum for the expences of
eilleation till the Piiute was of age, the amount
.w, d( 43,000
Making against the arrears of the r..34,;00
A total of 2:39,000

To tit:: was stilt to be added the grants, in the
yk..tr 1:87, of
NIA:44 with other grant; upon 'the whok. 500,0'30
To put agairht the som of, as he said before, 0f... 254,000
All this, he said, he stated fairly,' as an huleyen-
dent man, who lord nothing to fear, and very little .
to hope: he was not, therefore, feakul-of the con,
sequences. Neither the ground of the claim, nor.
the right had ever been made out at all, and he
defied:my ore to prove the right of the :Prince of
Wales to -these ars-ears. In this situation, 'he
thought"the public to be insulted by these pretended
sacrifices to their interest, and shouhl‘votein favour
of the previous question.
Mr. H. LASCELLES said, that though he rose
to oppose the original Motion, his doing so was not
to 4e imputed to the slightest disrespect to the Prince
of \Vales, for whose situation he felt as high a de-
gree of interest as any man. It was with serious
regret he saw the present question brought forward
and a.Fliatted. The former proposition for augment-
ing his Royal Highness's income during the ensu- .
ing three years, he did not consider as objectionable .
under all the circumstances. Had the Prince come
with an open and full statement of his situa-
lion to the House, it would than have become
a fit subjeCt for discussion, but the proposed Corm-
mittee, even if agreed to, could not do its duty
without making a .full enquiry into the nature of
all the now obligations said to be contraaed, and
these ennuiries appeared not to be desirable again
to be brought forward. The question of the ar-
num he thought ought to be fully.explained, and it
was strange theit ,they bad never bean ineatioaeclat
the time that Parliament was applied to respeting
the Prince's embarrassed circumstances. He could

-• • !

Ipmmilrig,—”Pe7prp. • -

• .
. • ,
not help aslh),e, wty the Paine& did not resort to
these funds, which he was said to he entitled te, beibre
h.: came to that House for aveis!.rnce ? Every thing
consilered, lie could net but view this claim, o•
brought forward, and held over the (louse in ler-
rorem, while tho indirect applications-were making.
Move any more was done, it was but fair to expert
the claims to be legally ascertained, and he hoped
and trusted ate Prince would even assist the House
its the endeavours it was making,with a proper v icw to
the convenience of the people, to reinstate him in
the splendour and magnificence suited to his rank.
Sir W. GORING having seconded the motion,
thought himself called upon shortly to go into the na-
ture of some of the objeelions. In the first place he
maintained, that the Prince of Wales was incapable
of making any indirea application, as attributed to
him in the speech of one of the Hon. Gentlemen.
The enquiry now, called for svas necessary, because
the House, without some such investigation, could
not find itself justifiable in laying additional bur-
thens on the people. The motion, he conceived, to
be founded on the principle, that it was the
duty of Parliament to consult and support the
splendour and dignity of the Heir Apparent to
the Throne. If it was thought right, that the
Prince should resume bis state, it was also right,
that however cramped in financial circumstances,
the country should at least stir in it. The only
difference between gentlemen could be as to the
time when that should be resumed, but he believed
the counte7 not be in such a state as to render
that an objeCt to it.

•

\

Mr. H. LASCEI.I.I.I.S explained, that he only
meant to say the present Motion might, by some
people, be suspeCted to be an indirea application
from the Prince of Wales.
Mr. DENT spoke in favour of the.original Mo-
tion.

Mr. BLTRDON said, no Member of that House
cotdd be more anxious- than he was, to see his
Roy'al Highness the Prince.of Wales restored to that
splendour of state, so necessary to support the high
dignity to which he was unquestionably entitled.
But as a Member of that House, having in recol-
leCtion what passed in the year 1795, with regard
to the arrangement of•his Royal Itighnese's attairs,
and the part which he took in it, he mutt strongly
And decidedly express his determination to abide by
that measure. He was convinced of the wisdom
and efficacy of that measure, and though the com-
munication from the Prince refleds the highest ho-
nour upon the integrity and equitable dtsposition
of his Royal Highness, yet to enquire any
further into the circumstances of the case,
than his Royal Highness had thought proper
• to make known, he .conceived to be a proceeding
highly "unwarrantable, 'and extremely indelicate.
That his Royal Highness should remain any longer •
in a state of obscurity, was a subjed of regret ; but
it could not be supposed for a moment, that such a
state of obscurity could reflex the least dishonour
on his Royal Highness, particularly when the mo-
tives fur it were considered, and the salutary effed it
had in view. But if a Committee was agreed.. to,.
according to the tenor of the Hon. Gentleman's mo-
tion, it n•ould be in a most peculiar •situatien—in-
deed in a more peculiar situation than any Com-
mittee of that House was ever yet placed in.—
' It would be:compelled to dive into his Royal High-
ness's most secret concerns, to demand the production
of papers and every, document necessary for the
discharge of so painful a duty, and which, per-
haps, could not be complied with ; in short, it
would be in such a situation, as not to be able to re-
port to the House any grounds for proceeding on.
There were other grounds also of objedion to the
Committee--We are told, that debts of honour,
&c. ware to be discharged ; but these debts may be
of a very different description from what the spirit
of an Afl of Parliament could embrace. The pro-
per and manly manner in which his Royal High-
ness lad submitted to the restriCtions laid on his
income, certainly entitled him to the confidence,
resped, and good opinion of that House ; and no
person lamented the necessity of any measure,
which tended to curtail the enjoyments or comforts
of the Prince, more than he did ; but as an inde-
peedent Member of Parliament, wishing to ad con-
sistently, he should vote for the previous question.
Mr. TIERNEY rose and said, he could by no
means agree with those gentlemen who said, it
afforded subjed of sorrow, to have this business
brought before the House. It was to him a matter
of satisfaStion, as it gave him an opportunity of
adverting to the manner of bringing up the Report
of the Resolutions ; v lids he said, was done in a
most extraordinary v aye a- a time when the House
was. assembled for ti e pureose of carrying up an
Address to his Majesty, and without affording any
opportunity for gentlemen to deliver their senti-
ments on a subjed of so much importance. He
would for a moment suppose himself a Member just .
arrived in town from the country, and on consulting
the Journalsof that House, he would perceive, that
a most gracious Message had been received from
his Majesty, recommending the situation of his
Royal Highness the Prince of Wales to their cons
titration, and by their votes he would see that they.
'had unanimously agteed to the accomplishment of
the objeet-stated in his Majesty's Message ; and rt.
by • the communication of the Prince of Wales,
it would appear that the measures adopted
were insufficier.t for the same. What then
should be his feelings, placed in such a situation ?
-would it not he extraordinary to agree to such a
measure ? or why was money to be voted, unless
it was to answer the purpose for which it was in-
tended.? He heard some Hon. Gentlemen objea,
with great earnestnesi., to the present motion, as a .
matter highly indelicate, at affording a pretence for
prying into the secret concerns of his Royal High-
Less ; but he was convinced that the result of an en- .
quirt' in a committee, would be highly honourable
to the Prince.; and, as to the strange sense of deli-
cacy expressed by those Hon. Gentlemen, lie was
pertedly at a loss to account for it, when he consi-
dered that the immediate servants and friends of his
Royal Highness displayed no symptoms of the kind.
As to his pert, he would again rep, at his conviction,
and a stronger tone could not be smpressed on Ws
mint, that an enquiry in a Committee would turn
out highly horourabki to the Prime ; and so far wits
hefrom
Gent le sr en •
of any dole
tration of the
• nfieent, if his
cn the
ei7Atka-thipg
lkli toika
!,;e clerawAi.

, I t.

rT*l

4

he from.- apprthending. es some Hon. (
,pressed themselves, the oecurrer.c,
which, '. •tinwint'hy of the eqnsi ii
House, that he should rest perfec•ir r•
''Royalisitneti's Worst enemy
Committee; that he-could not fi • • .e,.)
1/11sel4on..Gentlesentf,
chtims on the revenues of the