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11 A 1.1.: A El. E BOOkS, PRINTS, MUSIC, AND PLA EL,
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IMP E !CIA L PARLIAMENT.

63115 E OF LORDS, IVttlottni,T, !Oat
! RO4RURGII PEERAGE. '
The LBttd atAlrbeti.oii informed the tomittillee pi
Privileges, that, on Tuesday next, he uhould stibmit etrtliii
resolut. t for their consideration, concerning the dienititos
conoreted with the weed "estates" *ld on other rafts of
this important !object, relative to the Rincbmith Peerage.
The Oil of Vitridl Bill, and the Irish Warehousing midi
'cloned the third time, and pamtd.
PRIVATELY STEALING BILL.

Upon theord;rof the Day t►eing cords
Lord El. tunsionouon said, it was not without
reluctance he rose to state his objections to tins
Bill, because he felt it ungrateful to oppose the
Wishes of those who were anxious to introdute this
innovation into the administraticin of the Criininal
Law. But, cith all his deference to those whos
front the best intentions. were dispoeed to speculate
memo our Criminal Code, and giving them credit
for the greatest ingenuity in their speculations, yet
he trusted their Lordships stoold pause before they
assented to the repeal of a law which had so lie;
been held necesaery for the security of the public
interest, and which he was not cohriciatis had pro.
duct(' any injury to the community. this BB
was intended to mitigate what was called the sere:
rity. of the lase, and for that purpose took away the
capital punishment inflicted by the Statute of King
upon the offence of privately stealing in e
shop. Much had been said about humanity; and
no one was more disposed than himself to the et-
erctse of Clemency ; still there was hot the slight-,
est ground for the insinuations that had been east
upon the present administreliou of the law. Be-
fore their Lordships adopted each an innovation, it
would be proper to cons;iler what had been the
practical result of a former bill of this descriptiOn,
which passed in a former Session, and which mina
gated the penalty of death is offences of privately
stealing from the person. He was convinced, not
only from his own observation, but from the infor.
mation of those who were most competent to esti- '
mate the result of any criminal statute, that the in- .
crease of those offenders had become enormously
great since the punishment of death was removed ;
nay, the present state of this metropolis, where
Se frequent cominisuun of picking et' pockets
had become so common, the truth .21 tint pea
sit:on war proted by daily experieneri. It *as
now Vise practice with those who lent theiseelves
' to this felonious kind of industry, to study this
mode of stealing. in preference to that Of any
othet depredation. It was usual for an at.
count to he transmitted from the Secretary, of
`State respyethig the number of those convicted of
capital pitiiistimenits, and it cipeared, from that ac-
count, as laid before the Judges, that the crime
of privately stealing from the shop was consider-
ably open the increase ; sod would their Lordships
tiaii time hazard the further increase of this
i-itizode of plundering the subject' In this fisoftenom
hie where the the retail trade had become so great.
arid so beneficial to the ends of commerce, and from
whener such a considerable portion of the taxes was
raised, it was the duty of the Legislature to protect
such property from being plundered. Indeed, were
the terror of death, which now, as the law *toad,
threatened the depredator to be removed, it was
his opinion, the consrqueaces would ire, that shops
would be liable to unavoidable losers, and, in
many instances, bankruptcy and ruia must he the
lot of honest and laborious tradesmen. It was al.
leged, the offence was such, as not to d so
severe and sanguinary a punishment; but it would
be recollected. that the observation would equally
apply to other offences, no more heinous in their
nature; against which. all must admit, that pub.
lie expediency tequired the punishment to be
severe, whereby the frequent commission might be
prevented. Such were the offenc. sof horse and
sheep stealing; and, indeed, it would be difficult to
name any offence of this description. where we
could oppose the crime with the sacrifice of human
life. Man's life could not he weighed in the same
scaler. But after all which had been stated in fa-
vour of this speculative humanity, they must all
agree, that the p tion of crime should be the
chief object of law ; and terror alone could pre-
vent the commission of that crime now under their

consideration. Although the law, as it stood, was
but seldom tarried into execution, yet the terror
was the same; and such were the minds of those
upon whom it operated, that lie lwlieved no milder
punishment would produce any tbing like safety to
the public interest. Beside'', it afforded an oppor-
limo,' sometimes of bringing criminals to • sober
consideration of their 'ricketiness; for there were
those who were su hardened, that scarcely any
thing had a serious effect upon their minds,
but the terror of death. Those who had witnessed
men under sentence of death, must here known
Chet a change in the conduct of individuals bad
been produced by their being alarmed at the ter-
m, impending over their existence. Therefore, he
was persuaded, in estimating the humanity of law,
and looking to the quantity of hrinfin .irtEciing, it
would he more merciful that the statute of ‘Vibiain
111. should remain unaltered, because the terror
thereby inflicted would prevent the frequency
of the offence. It had been also urg, d, by
those who were thus speculating in modern Is.
gisLations that a certainty of punishment should be
adopted, and that it should invariably be propor-
tioned to the magnitude of the crime, thns forming
• scale of punishments proportionffl to the degrees
of offences. But could this be effected ? Would
it be possihlc to frame a law, so that the punish-
ment should be always applied in exact cooks. •
amity to the nature and aggravation of the offence?
He worilti, on the cootrary, venture to ssy, it would •
be fouud impracticable, and any attempt at ham-
ing such Irws, he could satisfy the House (if it I
were net a serious subject), would be perfectly. In-
' damns. There acre always circumstance-a w hieb
' aggravated or initigaLed the clime, and it would be
impossible to make them the subject of au Act of

a

Parliament. There vs as as iostanee of eight men.
eoutMning to commit burglary. in the neighbour.
hood of the inesropolis. and one of them suggested
they should first break the house of a an With
whom tie had liv• d as • servant; and for which
faience they w-re trig d. Now, the offence of tins
man was con.iilerabl) aggravated, by hi. first sug-
gesting this crime, and by its being in violation us
common fiJelify ; but suppose the punishment
should be described as fathng upon a persin who
. . . .

.
Aosta stre.wor the burg/wry. baying fuesnerly Ler eu
thr demo of tree owner of the !louse ? Hut there

aught he ether circumstances of violence, or fre-
quent commission, or it might harvest one of the
offender*, as was the case he ►ecited, we► the lather,
and the other the eon ; all these were circumstances
which could out be defined by any law, but must
remain at the discretion of those who administered
the law. Hi* Curiliihip concluded by eaying,he had
mouthed with the other Judges, and they were
unasiniou.ly of opinino it would not be expedient

to remit the severity of this part of the Criminal
~lAvs. and to sclerosing himself to the house, he
hid represented their sentiments as well se his own.
He moved "That the Bill be read this day three
visosith.*

Lord le amitosis expressed his Rtes. t deference to
the *Moan of the JtAges of the land. and consi-
dered himielf bound at all times to venerate their

decisions. In particular. he valued the sentiments
of his Noble cud Learned Friend, and the great
learning and ability with Which he presided on the
-Bench; but at the wee time he enterketned a great
esteem for the leital knowledge of the Hon. Mem-
ber who had tutroduced this Bill. and especially
after it had received the cue.ider.4Mir of so tunny
enlighte,ed men in another place. He thought nu
imputation was due to the motives of these who
supported the propcood alteration; nor did he
behrve it des-reed the tame of speculation.—
The question was. whether it would met be more
expedient to the public interest. and more bench..
oaf to the criminal, that the punishment should
be mile proportionate to the general description of
ofilmern. with a discretion still left in the power of
the July to ont;Kit. in particular instances. ra-
ther than to resUsin suapplicehle to the general de.
senrteni of .iffences, and truly be enforced upon ex-
unordinary or. salons ?

The Ea, I of layseroota observed, this subject
WAS wady connected with those objects which fell
under hia cous.dtration, when he flied the office of
Secretary for the Nome Department. The returns
wh.ch had been made of the offenders, cooticted
of capital crimes, had led to several couclusioua
connected troth the policy of the present measure.
It appeared, that crimes of a more Snits:as es.
tune had been upon the eh crease, mod that

those of • minor teudenty. each as the offences
specified in this Bill, were now increasing. He
mot named the highest opinion of the merited
which actuated the Sadividual who iotroduced this
but he ugi, ant COW of those who were disposed
to dad fault with the criminal law of this country.
Whatever might be said of the theory of ear kw.
ao one could doubt but in practice it was the mild-
est so earth; and however sanguinary the statute-
book might appear, it Seat be confessed the ad-
ministratieo in any country was Dever so much tem-
pered with mercy. He adnotted that the distinc-
tion taken by the Pietas and Leas-sled Lord
(Erskine), that the punislisiest should suit the gene.
aerai deseriphon of the offence, way txcerdingly
plausible in theory, bat he did not appreheud
would be found so is practice.
Lord HOLLAND was sorry he should hare omit-
ted addressitig their Lordships iu the *uteri of
the premed discussion. He hod intimated to his
Noble and Learned Friend (Ellenborough) thtit he
should be obliged to his candour for a statemeut of
his idiections to the principle .of this Bill ; cud
deference to his Noble and Learned Friend, he had
.!tended most aexiously to the observations
wlech had been made, and particularly to the
latter pert of his speech, when he informed
Ora:, lordvhips, be spoke the sentiments of
the Learned Judger. There was one admirsioit.
notwithstanding. made by ills Nobk and Learned
Friend. dud atm by the Noble Secretary, that
this offence, of late years, was considerably upon
the increisse. Then did it sot follow, that she
severe puni.liment which bad been infliited had
sot produced the effect calculated upon by those
who uoul.l contend for its commodore? Bet

. *bat he lamented was, that their Lottlshii),
ahonld b, °shied away from the strict consi-
deration of the principle of the Bill, and divert-
ed tow.irds other questions of a different ten-
de ter. It had been represented. uncandidly, hut
not tiesiguedly. that the support glove this measure
was given by those who wished to in:reduce intro.
ration. and speculate 'woo hesitantly. This he
must contend wJs a miareprmentatilen of the mo-
tives which guided hum. sod his Noble Friends
who uoproted of the principle of the present Bill.
There wen on intention to alter the Common Law,
bet may io alter the effect of • Statute; and if such
were to be deemed au innovation. the same charge
world apply to every auteedment mate to the sta-
tute law of the laud. It was the opinion of every
eminent man in this country who had written 4lu the
subject. and particularly Jo.tice Blackstmie, that
the severity of the punishment produced dlfficulties
in • oing the law ; for the Prosecutor, the wit-
nevem theJorors. and even the Judge.. were back-
ward in perioriatuv, the extent of their dulc. Such
also had been the opinion of Dr. Johnson. at it be
need twit. after such authority. appeal to any
longing to other countries. Dr. Paley haul beru
quoted on the other side, and no man esteemed his
writings more than himself; yet Mr. Justice Black-
stone. on this *object. was au authority not to be
exceoded. and so was that of Dr. Johnson. if
matter of fact was important, he had also in favour
of the principle Mr. Colquhouth who had observed.
the frequency oldie crimes to which he was allud-
ing was wigs to the severity of the Laws. lie
wouW appeal to their Lnwhihips themselves, if they
had not been seaible of the justice of this remark?
Which althea had not lumen is their lives this
offence go unpunished, became the individual was toe.
Mimosa to prosecute. wham the punishment was so
severe? Who would yeoseeute when he was not confi-
dent bet the poorofeoder wonldtbeteby be depriveal
of his existence. and thus his awn conscience would
not rest easy daring the remainder of his life ? It
was well kuoan the ante kind of terror had of-
freed the Witnesses and Jurors on the trial; and

even Judges were not free &Gin its influence.
Therefore, it was considered more expedient to the
public welfare, as well as more conhistent with the
feelings of liummity, that the severity of tke pun-
ishment be removed, whereby the offence
would ¢e prosecuted, cud more likely to be pre-
seated. The admissions made by bi 4 Noble and
Learned Friend, and by the Noble Secretary,
clearly proved the inefficacy of the law upou
subject. The Noble Lord spoke at considerable
length, cad with much animation, in favour of the
Bill.

The Earl of LIUDGUID %LK supported the Bill
upon the grouted of its expedient:), both as to the
public good, and the prevention of the commission
of crime. It wee also to be considered, the Legis-
lature in the. reign of Wi'ham Ili. had not introit.
ed the puuishineot which was now inflicted ; for a
merit then would be Moore than ten shillings in the
present day. NOOKO could doubt that if it had been
proposed to punish with death the offence of steal-
ing privately in a shop to the amount of four
ehil-
hugs, the proposition would not have been acceded
to, oudCCOlint of the sum, and yet the value of money
was so changed, that we were now enforcing capital
puniilitumt for a sum, which would scarcely haft
anionnted to half-a-crown in the reign of William.
He could not acquiesce in the doctrine laid down
by his Noble and Learned Friend (Ellenborough),
fur the whole system of terror lad proved in-
adeq mite to the prevention of crime.
The Earl of SUFFOLK spoke in favour of the
mitigation of capital puubilimenis; that cousidera-
non had alone prevented him from prosecuting an
old woman, who had stolen several articles from his
dwelling house in town.
The LOKD Casocat.Loa opposed the Bill on
the same gruunds as his Noble sad Learned Friend
(Ellenherough). He thought no prevision could
be made adequate to every offence, under its
various circumstauces of aggravation or mitiga-
tion. In the crime of sheep-stealing, during
the short period he presided in the Cornrow'
Plv‘o• a case occurred, where a whole family
bad been prosecuted and convicted far that ot-
fence; but it was attended with these circuit,-
stances that the family were starving, and, in
the cravings of their hunger, they !rude them-
selves liable to the penalties of the statute. But
would any one dispute the punishment ought not
in that instance to be mitigated ? Indeed lie
should have been. much worse than these poiir
crimivals, if he bad not extended the Royal
Mercy. Still, how different was t: from the
offence of those who made a trade of stealing
and killing their neighbour's sheep P He remcni-
breed, also, with respect to hurse.stt cling. that an
individual. alto was tr ed for stealing a horse, was
proved to have stolen about eleven ; amt that fifteen
keys of toilipiks-gates were found to his pi,*•es.ioto,
whereby lie could expedite the anode of pleader in
which be was engaged.
The Marquot ..1 Lawsonwra eonteuded, the
practice nod opinions of society mid of courts of
had beet,. for upwards of lily years, at va-
riance with the laws, and cousegarntly had intro-
duced the innovation which was charged against
the present Bill. which had for its object only to al-
ter the law from abet was never practised, to that
which was the daily practice of administering pit-
nishments. the ii/Cfellelt of the offences of pre.
ample stealing from the person was not proved. but
the Noble and Le erned Lord had clearly shewn,
there was now a greater airnooosti.a For that sort of
fattener.

Lord ELLessoaotor made • very eloquent
repki, and again contended against the introdue-
fiou °Nils Bill. He wee never sessions to court
popular opinion. but was resolved on sll occasions
to discharge his duty. The duty of Judges was
very great, and none could say but they were ex,
tremely ansions to extend mercy to every deserv-
ing ease ; and indeed they were entitled to more
credit than WWI generally allowed them. Few of
their Lordships could estimate their feelings. and
what they suffered, when they hid their head.,
upon their pillows, et an •seize town, end bad to
reflect the next day would impose upon them the
painful duty of pronouncing upon several of their
fellow., features their awful doom. Upon the
whole, he was sure, if this severity were remitted.
there were those who would proceed to the comsaia-
aim) of the Offence, not caring, because they would
consider the punishment of the present Bill a sum-
meets airing in an easy migration to a milder
climate.

The LORD EnstrcELLon put the question, that
the Bill be now read, and the House. divided :
Castrate
Nsa-Control•
Maj•tity
•
The Bill is ivii.i.lpiently rejected.
tits 11114.lESIT'S MESSAGE.
The Earl of LI vcront. moved, 4. That an answer
be returned to His Majesty, thanking him, and ex-
pressing their concurrence in his most gracious
M•NSA gr."
The &Intimn was agreed to, after a few words from
Lord Hotta II D and Earl Gast,, who recommended
the propriety of impressing upon the Spanish
semester,' the necessity of acting towards the co-
lonies In that they might be prevented from sub-
mitting to the power of the enemy.
E irl GREY inquired the amount of the Vote of
Credit, and if any foreign subsidy were in contem-
plation ?

Tne Earl of larcnooor. stated the amount to
he three millions; but the application of any part.
And the amount. ought to be left to the Executive
Government.
RCOTCIf JUDICATURE.
Esrl STANHuNt colunienteil severely upon the
thin) Report of the Commissioners who were
to inquire into the propriety of introducing the
Trial by Jury into Scotland. Their Report was con-
tradictory, from the variety of opinion stated; end
he moved w That the Commissioners be ordered to
deliver their opinions, and the rem ,ons of them, in
writing, for the information of their Lordships."
Upon the suggestions of the Earl of LITER/Tom.
and the LOUD CRAW:III.I.OI6 the Noble Earl with-
drew his Motion, and gave notice of it for Friday.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed
of, and the House adjourned till Friday.