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London, England, 1805-05-11 00:00:00


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SATURDAY,

lingnes: to consider what so importantly concerted
such a numerous class of their fellow-subjeds.
These, my Lords, are considerations to induce us
seriously to sttend to the subjed, and constitute my
principal motives for bringing it forward to your at-
tention. Having thus expressed myself in the out-
set, I rather feel at a loss, impressed with consider-
ations of the subjea as I am, in what manner I
shall begin to lay betore you this grave, serious, and
most important question. I shall tiro call your
serious attention to the important. fad ; that in the
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland,
there exists a population, consisting of at least three
millions ; but, according to the highest calculation,
flee millions, educated in the Roman Catholic re-
ligion, professing, and attached to that system.
'1 his great portion of our population, my Lords,
we have, for every purpose of Government and Le-
gislation, as persons to he, legally and constitu-
tionally speaking, considered as Roman Catholics.
We cannot therefore regard them as heretofore,
when subjeds referring to the Catholics came under
our consideration, as a body comparatively small in
numbers, and forming a small exception to the
great majority of those we had to legislate for; hot
we arc to consider them as persons forming three-
fourths of the population of an important p..rt cl.
the United Kingdom, and that so many of our
fellow-subjeds, so circumstanced, are to be con-
sidered and provided fcr, legislatively, as Roman
Catholics. Let us look at this part of the case, as
it existed ever since the Reformation; but, my
Lords, I trust that no man will so /latter himself,
that because he wishes the existence, or the pre-
ponderance of but one religion in Ireland, that it is
possi'cle be can shut his eyes against the fad; that
there are such a numerous body in that country to
be considered as Roman Catholics, and that such
have existed, but not in equal proportions, since
the era of the Reformation. But for my present
purpose, my Lords, without troubling you with con-
siderations relative to periods so remote, it will he
sudicient to point your attention to the grounds on
which the restriaions of which the petitioners com-
plain, existed, from the time of the Revolution, to the
kresent reign ; and from the commencement of that
to the present moment. What first gave rise to the
system adopted, with respect to the Roman
Catholics, was the consideration, that, at the
time of the Revolution, and for some time
after, the great mass of tne Catholic body in this
country were unhappily hostile to the revolution,
and this hostile spirit soon extended itself to the Ca-
tholics of Ireland. In those times, of course, reli-
gious were blended and interwoven with political
considerations, as the page of history will convince
those who recur to it. It was by no means, my
Lords, to punish men for their religious opinions,
or to put down those religious, or even civil, doc-
trines ; but, it was expressly because the persons
who professed the Catholic Religion at that time
were favoterably maimed to the eailed family. It
was then judged expedient,by new and coercive
lawn, to exclude the Catholics from a participa-
tion in the Government and Constitution of the
Country. But, that this system of exclusion is
now totally unnecessary, is waat I mean to contend,
and, with reference to my motion, the policy and
the ex rdiency of continuing he restrictions should
be canvassed. We know the situation of the
country in those days, my Lords, and we
know it to be very different from what it is
at present. It is hut justice to the memory of
a great Prince, my Let-de, and one of the firmest
friends of toleration and liberty that ever sat upon
the throne, to say, that it is not upon the memory
of King William that we must change measures,
taken after the accomplishment of,the revolution,
or that the system afterwards pursued had his sanc-
tion or approbation. In a subsequent reign, my
Lords, the system pursued, had its rise from the
impression that the Catholic in Ireland, merely be-
cause he was such, always continued the irrecon-
cileable enemy of the established •religion, and of
the established government of his country. It was
held that no system of lenity or concession, no lapse
of time, no habits of intercourse with his fellow
subjeds, would alter the mind or disposition of the
Catholic, bu. that he would remain, in principle,
and in fad, in eternal hostility to the rovernment
and coastestioo of his country. The principle laid
down, in consequence of those assumptions, was,
that it would be necessary to exclude the Roman
Catholics, not only from all share in the govern-
ment of his country, but to restrain him from en.
jnying any kind of interest therein ; he was to be
deprived of any interest, because interest would
lead to power ; and hr was to ,sosseos no pro-
perty in the country, because that also would
lead to power; even domestic intercourse, or
the power of intermarrying with his fellow
subjeds, was then withheld from • him. Nay,
every means were recurred to, to drive the Irish
Catholics from the soil, or, at least, to reduce them
to the state of a poor and illiterate peasantry. Of
these measures, my Lords, it was well said by a
great man, to Never was a system, if the objet
were good, just, or wise, mare admirably calculated
to accomplish that °Ned, such as it WM." The
system certainly was, my Lords, well calculated to
prpJuce the desired effects ; for it rendered the un-
happy objects of it inconsiderable, as members of
the community, of no weight, but what they de-
rived from their numbers, perfectly alienated from
their fellow subjeds, and, with minds imbued with
no feelings but those of exasperation against them.
I do not hold this language, my Lords, with a view
to excite your feelings of indignation, but for a dif-
ferent purpose, that I may be able to present you
with a sketch affording a pleasing contrast, afforded
by the course of raeasores adopted with respeft to
that subject during the auspicious reign of His pre-
sent Majesty. In this, even should the present ap-
plication fail ; but, I trust, that ultimately it will
not fail—the situation of the Roman Catholics has
indeed been greatly ameliorated. This system of
amelioration was gradual, my Lord!, and was the

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MAY i i, t sus.

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better for being gradual. Sines the acoesslon
of our beloved Sovereign, the piaure, with respect
to the Irish Catholics, has been nearly reversed,
many eels of the Legislature were passed in tneir
favour : they have been allowqd Cu iutermarry with
their fellow subjeCt, and were, by successive :las,
allowed the free exercise of their religion. and the
full benefits of religious toleration. They wets
gradually restored to their rights in the soil, by being
permitted to acquire and retain landed property ;
and a full participation of the trade of their country
was extended, by abrogating alt commercial restric-
tions upon them. They have been successively ad-
mitted to the most essential benefits of the coestita-
tion, and nearly to the complete enjoyment of it.
They were admitted to a share in the elective fran-
chise, and to a participation in the judicial parts ;
beginning with the lowest offices, and proceeding
very far towards the highest. All this, my Lords,
has been done under his present Majesty, and it
shewed that such measures were as well calculated
to attain their beneficial, as the systems of preceding
r-gns were to accomplish their injurious and de-
strulive objects. By the Alas sat His Majesty's reign,
my Lords, the weahh of Ireland has beau inconceiv-
ably augmented. No country in Europe, within such
a short space of time. has manifested such a degree
of improvement, in point of agriculture, general
cultivation, and trade, as Ireland has done ; and,
above all, in the most important object of civilisa-
tion. Those who advised such an alteration irf the
system, with reseed to Ireland, were not so igno-
rant, as not to think such beneficial effects must fol-
low. They shewed themselves principally with re-
;pea to the middle ranks, and their benign, influence
reached even the very lowest class of society. Such
a new and consoling picture shortly presented itself,
and manifested a striking contrast with that afforded
by the system of exclusion. Such, my Lords, was
naturally to be expelled : as the Catholic acquired
property in his country, he increased in attachment
to it. ['heir condition was graduaily ameliorating
in this way, till the year 1793, when a measure,
on which I shall always reflex with the highest sa-
tisfaction, extended almost every other remaining
benefit of the Constitution to the participation of
the Catholic ; above all, it conferred the valuable
privilege of voting for Members of Parliament,
and admission to all the Executive Offices, with
the exception of the very small number which are
named in the Aa of 1793. This, my Lords, pro-
doted c ff.eas greatly beneficial, and here, for a time,
a stand was made,—not because it was just or po-
litic there to make the Gnat stand, but because the
whole proceeded upon the principle of gradual ame-
lioration ; and it was regarded as expedient, that
for a time, acting upon that principle, further con-
cession should be withheld ; there were also other
considerations which operated with Government
at that time, and though identified, as the centuries
are now, tech an incorporation did nut then exist,
~pad every thing had been grioted, which perhaps
could he granted, without a risk of something like
a convulsion in that part of the empire. In the
first place, the Parliament of Ireland had been con-
stituted on a plan, the precise °hied of which was,
to make the Legislature entirely Protestant, though
to the exclusion of three-fourths, at least, of the po-
pulation of the country. In that point of view, my
Lords, the practicability of carrying such a measure,
as prayed for by the Petitioners, through a Parliament
so constituted, became a serious consideration :
Any difficulty, in consequence of doubts arising in
the minds of many men, that the admission of Ca-
tholics into the local Parliament of Ireland may
not, ean.idering their increasing wealth and influ-
ence. throw such a degree of power into their
hands, as may endanger the Protestant establish-
ments of that country. Now, I ask, whether, in an
extreme possible case of the kind. difficulties in the
then state of things did not present themselves, as to
sender questionable the safety of proceeding fur-
ther? But now happily, my Lords, the great and
important measure of the Union, conferring, and
likely to confer, such great and lasting benefits upon
both countries, has intirely removed the difficulties
I alluded to. The fears entertained, in consequence
of the great proportion which the Catholics of Ire-
land bear to their Protestant fellow subjects, must
be entirely done away, as the whole population of
the United Kingdoms, of which the C itholics form
a small comparative portion, must be considered.
We are now, therefore, unfettered by those difficul-
ties, which might have rendered the safety of such
a measure questionable, if adopted in a separate
Irish Parliament. In consequence of the Union,
hopes were excited in the bre.tsts of the Catholics,
that a consummation, so desireable as that now
prayed for, would take place. But, my Lords, no
promise was given to the Catholics that such a
measure should be adopted as a consequence of
the Union ; but, at the same time. it is equally
true, 'that all the arguments used in favour of
that measure, without as well as within doors.
reasonably induced the expectation that that ques-
tion would be more completely as weil as effec-
tually considered of in a United. than it could
be in the Local Parliament of Ireland. This line
of argument naturally produced its died in the
minds of the Catholics, and the persuasion, that it
could nut be properly done, without the accom-
plishment of that great measure. Such were the
causes of the hopes distinctly entertained by the Ca-
tholics on this head, and not assurances held nut to
them, by persons authorised to mike such assur-
ances. Promises were nude, that the Petition
should ir presented to the Imperial Pat !lament,
which, they were induced to hope. would be,at-
tentively and deliberately considered ; that it was
impossible the Imperial Parliament could refuse
to entertain their Petition ; that it should be ex-
amined, its merits canvassed minutely, and in •
detailed way, but ao : '
the claims, by a sweeping
derstood pledge ; and I call
consequence of it, to
tion. I propase now.

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measure, though I well know'what measure ought
to be taken. All I propose is, that now, this first
time, since the union, of this great qtretion b long
agitated; and what I ask of yuu to-night, is, that
you will consider of it, and with that degree of tem-
per and moderation, which yott pm -selves recom-
mended, and endeavour to give, as far as you c t
all your fellow-subjefts equal rights, equal privi-
leges, and equal laws. The motion, my Lords,
which I mean to offer this night to your considera-
tion, is, " That this House do now resolve it-
self into a Committee, to consider of the Peti-
tion now presented."—l hope this question will
not be negatived; and I think it cannot be
negatived, except by those who are net ready, not
only to say, they will not agree to the Petition ; but
who are ready to say, they will not even enter into
the consideration of the silbjen. Ip my mind, my
Lords, it is necessary, that the whole of what the
Petition asks should be conce.led to the Catholics.
If you mean to discharge those obligations imposed
upon you by the Lnion, you will provide, by the
best means in your power, for the effettual, the real,
and the essential union of all the inhabitants of the
empire ; sot in name, or io law, only ; but in in-
terests, in beets, fb sfedions, and, :drove an, is the
resolution to defend their common and invaluable
constitution against every effort of its enemies. The
question is now, merely one of expediency. It has
been held, that, for the benefit of the whole, or where
the safety of the whole required it, the Legislature
have an undoubted right to impose a necessary de-
gree of restrietion. The question now, my Lords, re-
solves into the consideration, whether a necessity ex-
ists, or whether it be even expedient that restriftiont,
such as the Petitioners complain of. should be conti-
nued on between four and five millions of our fellow
subjeas ; that so great a proportion of them should
be debarred from a due share in the privileges and
rights of the Constitution of their country ? I con-
tend, my Lords, that it is incumbent on those who
maintain that the continnence of the restrietions is
necessary, to prove that necessity; a necessity
which they are bound to show, as long they conti-
nue to defend the crintieuance of such restriieions,
and thereby to deprive such a number of their fel-
low-subjects of the benefits of our common constitu-
tion. I am, in this general view of the case, my
Lords, fully entitled to call upon those who assert
the necessity of continuing the restrictions to call
upon them for the proofs of it ; bat, I am willing to
take the proof on myself, and feel confident that I
could make out such a case as would folly manifest
the right of the Petitioners to whet they require'. It
is, my Lords, acknowledged, that in principle. the
British Constitution is founded upon equal laws.
Under this, therefore, it cannot be denied, that a
considerable degree of exclusion should not operate
against four or five millions, without some manifest
or palpable necessity existing forit. The Catheliesed
Ireland are still excluded from a varietrof offices in
the Government of there country ; as e onf those et
Shang. and its a greater degree from (Ades its (*"1--
i potations. On these a question naturetly affsesiswitme
necessity exists for corium:ling these restrictions one
moment longer? It has lseeii said, and dwelt upon,
my Lords, that the nature of the Catholic religion is
such, that no true possessor of it can beg good subjea,
under a Protestant Government. If thews he such a
religion, my Lords; if its members be unfit to be
admitted into the Legislature, or into-the highest
offices, I have to ask them, why have they been
freely admitted into all the offices of their country,
with the exception of at most between thirty and
forty offices? Why admit them into the army, with
the exception of their not being General Officers, cv
to the receipt and administration of the revenues,
with very few exceptions, if they are to be regarded
in a light little different from that of traitors ? If
they hold such a religion as described, why are they
suffered to come into the Courts ct Justice, and
swear allegiance to your Government? Why is all
this mimed, if it be held that no Catholic can be
a tree sad loyal subjeet ? It would be a waste of
ease, and of words, to refute propositions so extra.
vagant—so absurd—so monstrous. I can refer
to better proof of the Contrary, than can be ex-
tracted from old books or musty records; from
the decrees of counsels, hundreds of yeas dd,
which have been ransacked for arguments, aeaiast
trusting to the oaths of Catholics—to arguments
not drawn from what the Catholics most solemnly
profess, but from what their opponents cause to
assert of that religion. These assert.. they hold no
faith is to he kept with the Heretics—what they have
sworn and aCted up to—the pnnciples admitted.
both by the Legislatures of Eneland and of Ireland,
are proofs to the contrary. t hope that for ant
purpose of Government their own constraelion of
their religion, and what they acknowledge, will be
taken preferably to what others met, think. ware the
principles of their religion a.- some encient and ob.
solste periods of history. It these printipl-s be
always acted upon. I know not where persecution is
to end. If you believe that every man who professes
the Catholic religion, professes that which gees to the
overthrowot yotteProtestant and Monarc!:icalGevern-
rnent, it goes to say, that neither now nor hereafter,
will you agree to the removal of these restrietioes, and
that you would ever recall whet concessions
have made ; nay, a wish to drive from the soil oic
the country persons to be regarded as itritererellim
able enemies to the constitution and government of
, your ceontry. Bur, my Lords, how cnot'avy iv
all these considerations are the real faets of the eases:
is it not true, that Catholic Cotietriet, even at
Rome (that mistress of the arts), are not Preitene
ants as much in safety, or at their ease, es in Pro.
testant Coun.ries ? boo not many of your Lord-
ships know, that in these countries no symptoms
of persecutioa lona reputed Heretics even ap-
pear to exist ? With respect, therefore, my Lords,
to

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LATIVASSe(I minutely, ana in a pear to emu Wan respect, tneretore, my Lords,
to idea was held out, of granting to the assertion, that the mass of the Catholics in
weeping vote. '4 his WAS the ua- Ireland are turbulent and dish.yal—if that were thtt
id I tail upon you, my I.nrsls, in can, if they were voalre.led As in the re.^n of Kin;
o take the subjed into considers- William,—upon what ground, upon what princ.-
ow, the adoption of no :pectic pies, I ask, can these Aias of the Protestant `erg