The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1825-03-19 00:00:00

11911.15 p.

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JOwould Dohs& Abs Mean is g• 411seall thll specific
only votehigiTrat
HN Nitro. se= tb.._s_r_i_sain........psissad by
le!lrish trait annual
thou ebt peeper estbents their inemstaay to doing
..n...uded the house ham advantageously disaseeing the amount
of the grant.
• Air. SPRING RICH snewsud, that as thaltsandling Hospital
Mss subject ,all the donations whisb applied to the other chari-
ties. any —a Sight be postponed until this vote was
aligllinsurt.
immis illan bats a Committee of Simply on
the Irish Mindless.= —16,61C1. was voted .kw the
Prielisirtsr sithissis sf
Allit,lgilissnigiossaA Ski doss loss were 01117 asked fot.
Z.niellifes." bail as Calawaliwilamse *sok( have made their
Ei.GOIMBUR2I said be hobnail these votes only to be
Implied re cover tip cosset raismoss, inisnavoing that the Conn.
ages hers would-mats thsfit Rimy 11100631414 then Buster.
Z 6.1110 was semi set sisesst IM Its Seitiefy eostattlithed foe
ntemmeing Vice.
ii r. HUME ?militated the Right flossik*e Sesretary for Ire.
need to desire this inseisto send germ.* dimes of the Dumber
NBibles, Ti.; Mt Bab abbalsliml by this Society.
s ode this rsgssltin Is prevent tits serseasity of moving
Sir Remise; •
Dlr. 001.3.1111111111 sismsted. At the earns time he begged
in ouster, tot dams blithistions expendeds large sum. of mosey
sw
sg
jo
se
em , this I
"d again
was the veryial m
principle to
ba bed nitssini. deprecated this system of building,
isisich borehole' SIMI Imatinations with debts ; son thus what was
Only intended es a Warms, grant, was necessarily turned into a
gormansot bertbsa.
The sum, of OAK was stated on aspount for the support of the
..-alleirlifai Psi &I Edmgation of titkPoor iu Ireland.
Laill 1. was was/ Iss tits sukpurl of the.rosandling Hospital in
lialfbl. issavotill is the Dublin House of .
Ilibdiers• won heist to the Hibernian Society Ist:PIT Eduestion of
L,ISII = ts the Hlberhisn Marine Society.
,s., CHARITABLE GRANTS.
M. HUME said, their wee nothing similar to these slsetsosy-
soy grants its either England or Scotland, and he did not IMP any
thing peculiar to the skuation of Ireland which rendered it nays-
selry that sums should be voted away for the support of charities
ki that country. There was only one charitable grant for England
is sum of 6,0904 rot the support of the Society for the Relief of
ohs Destitute), and this grant we. supported solely on the ground
that the Society may be considered as a part of the police. The
amount of Irish charitable grants had been nearly doubled within
a By years; and when the principle was considered he thought
every main ought so feel disposed rather to abridge than increase
Use amount, which seemed to be the favourite °Wein of the Hon.
&ere, ery for Ireland. The charitable grants for Ireland, ineuding
tie education grants, to which his observations were not directed,
amoonted to the enormous sum of 345,000/., for which the people
of England were taxed to support this eleemosnnary system. If
this system wan beneficial he should not object to it, but experience
demonstrated that it watt productive of much evil. For his part he
could not allow the opportunity to pass without protesting against
the system. ' The County illembere did not attend at the passing
of thc.e votes; and lag therefore called upon the Government to
Footed the people from thesounnecessary burthens.
Mr. ()RATTAN said, he concurred with his Honourable
Friend (Mr. Hume), that the amount of charitable grants to Its-
land was considerable increased since the Union. when it was Stabs
M 5,0004 It was now, as the Honourable Gentleman stated, some=
tiling over 300,0051. The charities to the support of witica these
sums were applied, however, were, with a few exceptions, extremely
sacful, ckpecially those in Dublin ; and before lion. Members
consented to. withdrnw the grarts from those useful Charities, he
begged them tie consider what a mass of misery and distress such a
permeating would throw upon the public.
Sir T. LETHBRIDGE did not conceive that the Honourable
Gentleman's (Mr. Hume's) observation with respect to the non-at-
tendance of County Members warranted by the experience of the
II masc. He hoped the House would never entertain a niggardly
feeling, when its attention was called to the distresses of the Irish.
Ac was an addscate for the general education of the Irish people,
and it was Impressed on his mind as an important duty which this
country owed to Ireland. Ile trusted the Honourable Secretary
would continue in the steady course which he had hitherto pur-
eued, and not,* diverted from it by the principles of false economy
urged too often at both aides of the House.
Mr. MONCK was of opinion that those charitable institutions
tended to nothing so much as the increase of paupers. 24,0001.
was given to the Foundling Hospital, and if Parliament voted
100,0001. instead of 24,0001., it would by so doing only offer a
larger premium for incontinence, and the produce of illegitimate
ctildren would be found to have augmented in proportion to the
increase of the grant. (Hear, hear.) If this system was worth
anything, it ought to be extended much further. If these grants
were eecesaary for Dublin, they were equelly necessary for Li-
merick, Cork, Belfast, and other large cities. No one could say
that the prezitie stall voted was actually that which is necessary. In
fent, dohs system was good, there should be no end to the amount;
if it Was bad. the sooner we got rid of it the better.
Mr. fnURTEIS hoped these votes, instead of being rendered per-
manent, would be diminished every succeeding year. (Hear, hear.)
Then: was no doubt that much distress existed in Ireland : indeed
some degree of distress existed everywhere : but why din not the
jaish support their poor by establishing the poor rates, which was
a heavy bonitos on the county which he had the honour of fe-
rmenting?
• Mr. LOCKHART was strongly opposed to the system of eha-
rtable grants ; but he could not recommend the Irish to establish
the poor rates. He always found that distress and profiicacy in-
creased in exact proportion to the sum of money which was avail-
able for what are called charitable purposes. As the Honourable
Member for Coventry was not present, perhaps he (Mr. Lockhart)
was rot justified in adverting to that town. A sum of fourteen
thousand pounds was annually expended in Coventry for the sup-
port of charitable institutions, and the good behaviour of the in-
Labitanta was by no means remarkable.
Mr. HUME said, as the Right Honourable Secretary for Ireland
refused to aunt the House any satisfactory information on the
subject of charitable institutions, he begged to call upon the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer to state to the House the intentions of his
Majesty's Government. Three years ago an Honourable Gentle-
man, then connected with the Governineht of Ireland (Mr. C.
Grant), admitted the absurdity of the principle which he (Mr.
Hume) now reprobated ; and yet the Government went on increas.
ing the amount every year, instead of making any reduction.
He protested against so unjust and improvident an application
of public money.
Mr. GOULBURN felt no reluctance in affording the Hon.
Member for Montrose all the information which it war in his power
to give. ..If the Hon. Gentleman expected him to pledge himself
to recommend the House to withdraw the grants now given for the
support of Charitable Institutions, he would distinct!), state that he
could give no such pledge. He would continue to call for that
moderate degree of relief which the wants of the Institutions ren-
dered necessary. Whenever he considered it expedient he would
recommend the grattuol reduction of these grants, but he could
never consider it expedient to withdraw them altogether.
Mr. C. GRANT said, he thought the principle of some of these
grants objectionable ; this opinion he had before stated, and to it
he now adhered. He had always anticipated, however, a gradual
reduction, which could be efneend without shocking the prejudices
of-any parties, or producing that extensive misery which must be
the result of a sudden reduction. With regard to the ultimate ex-
tinction of these grants be should only recommend it when the In.
etitution was bad in principle. Upon the subject of general educe.
thin he hoped to see the floosentep noward and support the 'Rill.
dole, not with prodigal but with ample generosity. lie could not
consent to the reduction of any grant for education, unless the ap-
plication for the greet marred its purpose, as was the case with the
Charter Schools. Sonic little advantage was derived by individuals
from these schools in the elementary arts of reading and writing,
and perhaps, some little in the way of religious instruction ; but in
am great purpose sof training tip men to make them good subjects
art, sepd Christisrs, these Institutions had decidedly failed. He
&vogue these establishments might be gradually corrected, but the
latticel prltteinle was bad ; the advantages were confined to a par-
ticular class, and the Institution could never effect any great public
romt. The same objection, however, did not upply to all the In-
54:win" snorn(lidaandstioonises-epasitin seam—ssessal.- Horses..
traced a rational oshiggsteruil system of education. To these he
hoped the liberality of the House would be extended without any
reterence to the sums stipulated at the Union. He would say, gratis
linerany for the support of a liberal and enlightened system of
education, bat let it not be a system calculated to produce paupers,
and to encoerage Vice and prrOligacy. (Hear, hear.)
The (:I IA NC E ILO k of the EXCHEQUER multi not entirely
agree with the principle which was urged, that Institutions sup.
rotted by charity were in all cases, productive of evil. In ibis
cauDtry experience proved no such thing. In the City of London
there were lestitutions without number supported by charity. It
is trite they were supported by voluntary subscriptions, and not by
Fab& mousy ; but their effee.s on the morals of the people must be
much the same, windier the Institutions are supported by subscrip-
ens or Parliamentarv..grents. In Dublin, sttuated as that city
r,cw is, he understood it would be Impossible to maintain the els-
r.table institutions without any other aid than that derived from
voluntary subscriptions. Ile thought it would be most unjust of
*.s House to withdraw their grants, upon the ground of an abetrnct
objection, to which he could not fully assent, and which was dis-
proved by experience in this country. The House must consider,
that by the sudden withdrawal of these grants, they would leave a
camber of persons now deriving benefit from them, in a state of
absolute destitution. It would be inconsistent with sound policy,
if the Hosute expressed its decided opinion against these Institu-
lions, without seeing their way a little more clearly. There was
practical experience to demonstrate that in Ns county charitable
itstitations contributed to the comfort end happiness of the people,
and he cone:teed that their abolition must inevitably produce a
great aggravation of whatever degree of distress already existed.
After a few aunts from Sly JOHN NEWPORT,
:th. SPRING RICE said, that full justice was not done to Ire-
lactl,-or to the efforts male by that armour in the cause of charity ;
treats that were not to be measured by that paper—efforts that in
Fr:marine to the Capital of Ireland, need not Lae a comparison
with roy Eoropeen country. Though they had not poor? rates,
and though he misted they never should have panes' rates (hear,
hear), yst there wee. various establishments in Ireland for chant/t-
-en Purposes which were not generally taken into consideration.
Theo W. Te infirmaries, disperoaxies, and numerous other establish-
r-ants, which would do honour even to this country.
Mr. GRA':. TAN asserted that then: establishments were tubsti-

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