The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1819-06-30 00:00:00

COTTON FACTOR' FS.

Tbe Cuttou Factories Bill, after a short rostvrroalion hr.
tweeu Vr. Pan sad Mr. BINIIITT, was read Ike 'bird him.,
aud passed.

STILL FINES (IRELAND).
The CITA ricErt.utt of the EXCHEQUER moved
the Order of the Day for the House resolving itself
into a Committee on the Still Fines (Ireland) Bill.
the SPEAKER had left the Chair,
Mr. C. IltyrEntirsom said, he objected to• this
801 l altogetlser, and be wicked that the Right Hof,.
Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer)
could be prevailed on to abandon a measure
brought on at PO late a period of the Session, so
materially affecting the revenue and spirit trade of
Ireland, and intended entirely to lout down the
~stein of law by which they had for a length of
time been regulated. lie supposed he bad been
induced to fallow such a course by sonic special
reasons, of which he kept I (Air. Hutchinson)
however altogether ignorant. The plan of licensing
awl encouraging great stills had been found highly
briselicial to the revenne and to the agnculture of
Ireland, end now it was about to be overturned. in
order to substitute nobody knew what. He fancied
he held in his hand • representation of the induce-
mem* winch had led the Chancellor of the Ex-
, chequer to immune, the measure before the Com-
mittee, sad he wee at a loss to conceive what
ground could there be found to justify the po-
hey in which he was then proceeding.—[The Ho-
noenible Gentleman allotted to a prouphlet by
the Rev. Mr. Chichester. en the conduct of ex-
cise officers in the north of Ireland.}—He now
proposed to upset a system which had hem expe-
rienced to go en with great success for the hist three
years. He had been indebted to the kindness of
the Member few Donegal fur the pamphlet to which
he had referred, cud he had perused with great
ettaition; hut au fir from its jestifying a total

poor lair. With respect to the other auxiliary mea-
sure, if he was rightly informed, its principle was
to encourage smaller atilts that. any now 'permitted
to work. Now lie objected to that, and his ohjec.
tiou war the following:—That in order to he pro-
ductive they must he extremely numerous; and if
they were extremely numerous, one of two things
would necessarily happen, either that illicit distil-
lation would prevail to a greater extent, or revenue
officers would be multiplied to a degree burden-
some to the country. He was sorry if be had made
nee of any language hurtful to the feelings of the
Rev. Gentleman to whom lie had before alluded ;
but he could not see Gentlemen of the first rank
and fortune in Ireland libelled as they were in lii,
letter, without protesting against it.
Mr. CHICHESTER said, that in • debate which
had taken place on the subject last Session, he had
said, with truth, that the author of the pamphlet
courted investigation, but had been unfurtuately
obliged, in elucidation of his reasoning, to bring
forward facts, which he, in common with every one,
must have deplored. It was far from his intention
to reflect out his Majesty's Government, it was the
law which he conde 00000 ed. It should be ►ecollected
that the author himself had observed in his work,
that one disadvantage he should labour under was
the incredibility of his statements, and he could
pledge himself that he had alleged nothing in
which he was not borne out by facts. With regard
to the measure before the Committee, he should
take another opportunity of expressing his senti-
ments on it.
The CuaucLt.tou of the EXCHEQUER said, that
the Hon. Gentleman opposite (Alr. Hutchinson)
bad been rather hasty in cawing to • conclusion
with regard to the grounds on which he had fosioded
the measure before the Committee. He Certainly
had not made the statements of the pamphlet
the reasons of his conduct, because he had been

convinced by the discussion which had taken place
last year, and by other circumstances, that the
author was not borne out in many things he had
advanced. But every Gentleman acquainted with
Ireland mart have been aware of the impres-
sion which the severity of the Excise laws produced
On the people of that country—/Hear, heel—
of the danger of the irritation increasing. That
consideration. added to the representation of as
Hon. Friend who had been connected with the ad-
ministration of the revenue in Ireland, had obliged
him, though with repugnance and regret, to look
at the existing laws, with • New, if possible. to
soften their rigours. The objection to the existing
law (the punishing the innocent for the guilt),
applied, in the opinion of the Hon. Gentleman,
equally to the new one. He, however. could not

•
alteration inthe distillery le.. its Ireland, he held ligree with him. Trait orgumetie‘wail• Buda consi-
never read a more highly-coloured and over-charged dereble part of the expense attenditig,the serieeravy
statement in his life, nor are which in nuenerer establishments would fall on the r7veolse, 8.44,
passages more completely answered itself. Is its therefore, ultimately on the people at true. Ant
indiscriminate charges it spared neither the law he had forgot that a great part of all establishments
nor the administration of the law ;it heaped 'the for the protection of the revenue fell on the public.
most severe censures es well on the Act of the Le- The charge of AFT military and, rowel forces etn-
gislatnre as on the Government of Ireland, the played in guarding it, weighed wholly,rso the coon-
Board of Excise, the reVelblle Officers, and even try. The police was to be foal, and confilied to
the Judges. And if the Right 11,iii. Gentleman, those places where, from any cause, the people per-
after reading the work, had formed the same opi- aimed in their former pernicious habits. IVith respect
Mon of many parts of it as he had. he inserted that to the other measure for the riscouragement of small
Ise had not done his duty its not directing his Ma- stills, he believed that every Gentleman well advised
jesty's Attorney-General to institute a prosecution would consider the adoption of some provision of
against the author, in defenceofthe partiesso greatly the kind a necessary_ concomitant of a Bill re-
maligned. But in truth it was umiecessery, as pealing the townland fining Hear, bear. )
misty of the accusatious refuted themselves. He He felt the subject, however, enveloped in diffieul-
might admit that the townland filling law had in ties and embarrassments, iadth :wiith regard to the
some iastences been severely construed and harshly great distilleries, and also with regard to the draw-
executed ; but it was nut on account of individual backs and countervailing duties provided in cote
instances of suffering that a general and beneficial sequence of the union between the two , coon-
system was to be given up, a system too which had tries, and the House ought to be Ceutious in the
produced the almost total suppression of illicit die greatest possible degree of doing any thing to
tillation in the counties of Donegel and Derry, and touch upon its provisions. Feeling, therefore, the
the rest of the north of Ireland. IVould the importance of legislating right iii the first in-
Committee eXCltange a law which had been found stance, and the danger of proeeeding in too hasty
productive to the revenue, and advantageous to and precipitate a manner, he trusted the House
the country, by extinguishing drunkenness, inno- would agree with him in thinking the most ad-
rality, disorder, and the Ion; train of evils eon- viable course would be, not to press forward the
s.qutiit ass illegal distillation. and introducing collateral Bill during the present Session, but to
moral and peaceable habits in their stead among let it be introduced, have the blanks filled up in a
the peasatitry, for they did nut know what? Committee, end be maturely considered by all par-
, That the townland fining law was effectually attain- ties concerned in the interval between this and the
mug its object was obvious, from official statements following Session.
by which it appeared that thousauds of gallons of General HART said, that having been on the
legal spirits were now consumed in those districts staff in Ireland, he had had an oppo trinity of
which, previously to the passing of the law, had knowing the truth of many facts similar to those
been wholly supplied with illicit whiskey. He detailed in the pamphlet alluded to ; Bud he could
knew that the law was a severe one, hut he wished prove, if he were permitted, that four out of live
that in describing its consequence, to the House. of the cases detailed therein were perfectly true.
his Hon. Friend bad also made a representation of Nothing in the pamphlet was directed against the
the evils under which Ireland laboured from illicit Government, but the perfidy of the Excise officers.
distillation. and which had beets always deplored es The effects of the law had been such that of late
one of the greatest misfortunes of that country..... emigration had taken place to an extraordinary de-
( Hear. )—He did not mean to examine the penis gree in the north, f !Muer!. lie tinderetood that
color charges of the pamphlet ; hut he could not twenty.five thousand people hurl embarked at
help observing, that he could not believe the law, Derry for America last year ; and that torepsrations
as it set forth, at once transformed the inhabitants were now going on there which induced people to
of Eimishosren from peaceable. industrious, loyal think the ber would this year be increased.
people, to system:die opposers of law, conspirators. The effect of the existing law was, to pioduce a
plunderer., and murderers. The Right Hon. Geri- tumid change in the character, and to demoralise
tlemait had originally countenanced may large many of the inhabitants of the north of Ireland.
stills—then lie allowed stills of from one hundred Lord MourreCtiaima said, that unless the col.
to forty-five Ohms to work— vhe had in con- lateral measure fer the enconragement of small stills
temptation a plait for the encouragement of smaller should be passed, it would be impossible the int-
ones, which would injure the owners of both the sent Bill should be attended with its full efficacy.
former. The main ground urged for the abolition Sir H. PARNELL said, he perfectly agreed in the
of the existing law was, that it punished the inno- , principle of the Bill, its he greatly preferred a local
cent for the guilty ; hut the present Bill continued police to illicit distillation. lie was sorry the
the same objection, with this difference, that under Right Hosioureble Gentleman did not intend,
the former it was the innocent in the illicit districts agreeably to his promise—(Near. hear)—to have
who were made to suffer—gentlemen who did not to have the other Bill passed this Session, for giving
sufficiently exert themselves to put an end to a law. the measure for the repeal of the existing law its
less practice. But the new Bill would punish full effect. When he consideterl that snore than
the innocent all over the empire fur the guilty; it two months had elapsed since the Right Honour-
went to introduce a police which would make all able Gentleman had determined to give up the
thee towns in England and Ireland answer for illicit old law, he could not but think that if proper
distillation in the north of Ireland. Fifty men attention had been paid to the matter, a Bill
were to be placed in each barony where the Go- might be brought in, maturely considered, and
vcrnment would deem them necessary, which, with passed before the end of the tiessiuo.—(/tear.)
she fees to officers, and other charges, would not As the Right Hon. Gentleimio had alluded to the
cost less than four or five thousand sr year, and Union, he should take that opportuoity of making
should the disposition to evade the law prevail to an observation connected with that measure. The
much extent, the country would be Put to immense words of the Right Hon. Gentleman were, "thut
expense, the guilty would pay one half and they ought to be cautious in the greatest possible
the country the other, which was punishing degree of doing any thing which could touch on its
the innocent with the guilty with a vengeance. provisions." Now a subsequent Act prohibited the
Formerly the landed proprietors were made to pay Engludi retailer from selling Irish spirits—that he
for the offences of their tenantry, which, he be- looked upon no a direct infraction of one of the ac-
hieved, were indulged in, either from their absence tides of the Union, and hoped a clause would be
or their carelessness. The Act, however, wag ef- introduced into the pretent Bill to repeal it.
fectual, and the principle of it was recognized in I Lord Caszt.EttEarat hoped, that, as there was a

general agreement as to the leading principles of
the Bill, it would not be haz iriled by entering in►o
details and measures of regulation. He trusted
the House would assent to giving a full and fair
trial to a Bill intended as a general ►entrdy, and to
conciliate the good wishes of all parties.—(Hear,
hear.)—%Viih respect to the auxiliary measu►e,
there might be more haste than good speed. It
was one of great complication and difficulty, and
required to be well considered, even for the inte-
rest of those who were Twist noxious for the repeal
of the existing law. Nothing► would tie more in-
jurious to their interest• than to adopt a bad plan
hastily, which might evektually, from its ill sire-
coots, cause the whole plan to lie laid aside.
Considering the state of bu►inness in Parliament for
some time, that his Right Hon. Friend had not
the officers employed in the administration of the
revenue at hand to consult. that there would be
three cl of stills at work in Ireland, engaged
in competition with one another. the several re-
gulations for winch, and the drawbacks and coon-
duties,would be matters of great difficulty
and complication, mid that delay might ultimately
be benefit-ha, lie was sure the Hon. Baronet would
not be dispo►ed to censure his Rt. lion. Friend for
nut having brought forward his measure earlier, to as
to pass into a law this Sessiou. He hoped the mea-
sure would he fully and maturely considered before
the next Sessi ~,,, !tore especially if leave were
given to bring it in now. He hoped it would not
be imputed to want of attention or idleness in his
Right Hon. Friend or himself shit the measure
had not been yet introduced. if it were allowed
to stand over till next Session, it would only be
desired on an understanding that it would be one
of the very first measure. which should be then laid
before the House. and that it would be followed up
with all practicable dispatch.—(Hear.)
Mr. DAWSON animadverted 011 the conduct of

Mr. ,Eiseits Coffey, an Inspector of Excise, in put-
ting marginal notes on Mr. Chichester's pamphlet
to au official report made out by him.
Sir G. HILL Raid, that all the statements in the
pamphlet, and the complaints in a speech in the
early part of the Ses-ion (Mr. Manion's, we pre-
sume), related to circumo ,ve.s which occurred
berme the sitting of the hist Committee, and the
existence of the townlaud fining law.
General HART said, that not half the witnesses
intended to hr produced had been examined before
that Committee. When a Meutber wished to exa-
mine Mr. Cooper, the Member for Slugs, it was
objected by another, " What is the use of it ? it
will only shake the conclusions we have come to,
from the evide.nre already given."
Mr. V. FlTlttileltALD said. it ems impossible slot

- :

In rioted against the terms in w i;e•
towoland fining law had been de-crib ,
variety of other observations, the Right Roo.
deform censured that clan.e in the whirls rlo-
powered Gram! Juries to recommend the revival,
should they think fit, of the dormant powers oft..
law ahniet,tolif repealed.
Lord Joeti:Yri entreated the Chancelbir of t'
Exchequer to recollect, in ally measure ire
bring forward next Sesaioat for the encour
of small stilbc that the great distillers of Irei iert
had sank a mill of *Moil its a trade whist, ;..
been found extremely beneficial both to the rebei,ue
and to the country.
Sir. M. EtT7.Cl'nll.l3 raid, that the adoption of
one branch only of the new system was not
it it fair trial ;. and it illicit distillation slioind
increased by next Session, there wowld be no
to say the entire experiment had failed. He timitife4
The Right Hon. Gentleman and Parliament cant.{
not, with their eyes open, violate a material mritct,
of the Union in excluding Irish spirits from the
fish retail market, and he therefore called Ott hart rq
lake the first opportunity of rectifyiirg what he
must look spun acs mistake.
MI:PEEL expressed hit disapproaition of the
clause alluded to by Mr. M. Fitz4.-rald.
The CH•Ncut.hoit, of the Exciii reef{ said, the
Spirit Intercourse Act did not. pre-vela, th.•
tion of Irish wlinkey into England ; it .110„,rd
artiele to be imported, but required it to he ro-
tified before being hrought into the retail minket.
After a few words from Sir H. Pa RNF.1.1,,
Colonel BA UK Y said, that if the native
in its raw mate, int excluded fruit the market, ma
should the imported article.

Mr. M. FITZGERALD ins sted th..i the regulatirin
woe a substantial violation of one of the articles of
the Union. .
Mr. G. CALLAGHAN Paid (as we collected) that
the inteoded meirestrr, if founded on due
deration and deliberation, would ultimately receive
the support of nll parties interested.
Mr. FRENCH objected to the large salaries wt..,
by the Bill to revenue officers, and more orti,,,
!arty In the sum of 7001. per dinititn, the salary of
the Chef Magistrate.
General HART complained that there was no.
thing in Ireland but R system of poolbhment ;
issibery ha. been ameliorated iu other
punishment has Oren abolished even in the army—
why should it be reserved for the people of
alone? In Ireland the people knew of lia!
law hut its severity; this was to lie lagoiroted. In
behind there were goad materials ; it was to he la.
merited that three materials were not properly
worked. Ile was sorry to say that the people
that country were not treated with lernty ;
uo-
doubtrdly if they were encouraged, if their Cori.
Ries were called forth, the empire would reap the
full fruits of a wine and liberal system of govern.
ment, in the increasing strength and prosperity of
the empire.

Mr. 'HUTCHINSON complained of the Bill. It
was. hit said, intended to re-enact a system which
had been already tried and failed, and intended to
introduce a system of police at once expensive and
unnecessary. In the yeur 1779, though there
were 1.152 small stills in Ireland, which distilled
1,094,000 gallons of spirits, whilst the reduced
number, in the year 1814, produced 1,300,900
gallons, he could not, he said, but question the
wisdom of a niea-me by which the Right Mar.
Gentleman relinquishes a measure which hail been
tried, to adopt one woich he could not understood,
and the of of o Inch he could not atiticirite.
Whilst he considered toe pamphlet to *lnch he had
before alluded, us t Airtorrect in its fact., rid trro-
neous in ita conclusious, he could be sorry at the
same time to make any observreion that could be
at all painful to the feelings of any Member of
thdt !louse.

Several claims were then rend and agreed to.
On the chum giving Grand Juries power to key
fine,. on townlviiils by preventinents, being priw
long conv..reition took place between the
Chancellor of the I.:Ku'legiier, Sir N. Colthurat,
Sir Henry Purnell, Sir George 11411, and Mr.
n chi won.

The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER A.;ti,
thHt he considered the Grand Jurt thr most hrdln r
trel,uool to regulate the towilland
Sir Nictiot.As Coi.ritt7usT said, that those
were 1111111detreettldi.

Gi-ikral HART sail, the Lion. Baronet might
thick so. In one county (Donegal) there stele no
less than 3UO informations for still films.

Mr. Hterctittssos timid, the Chancellor of she
Exchequer was now called on by Gentlemen to
abandon a system which wee best calculated to pot
down illicit distillation ; but Gentlemen were not
satisfied to stop here—they objected even to NH.",
Grand Jurors the powe► to return to the system ~f
levying fines on too/islands fur the ensiling year,
should they by the force of evidence find it 14 p.f. to
do so. The House should recollect that in Civone
of the system now so violently opposed, they have
the evidence of the merchants of Reliant, of
Drogheda. and of Londonderry, formerly given.
they also had a Report of the Committee of that
House. He could not but regret to see an attempt
made to induce the Right Hots. Gentleman to
abandon a system that was so beneficial to the
agricultural interests and the revenue of Ireland.
Mr. M. Frrznia.u.so sdid, his lion. Friend liati
been led away by his zeal.
Mr. HUTCHICSOW said, he would repeat hitt Ilt.
sertiotta. He was zealous. and he was not wlttittitAl
of being so when he frit he was right.
The gallery was then cleared and the House di-
vided on the claims., wisest there appear.
For the Haute 37
Against it IT

blajorily
After some other verbal amendment. the Illott•rt
restnned. slid the Report was ordered to be brim& t
up to-morrow.
PEW SOUTH WALES DUTIES.
On the motion of Mr. GoeLiftiltN, the II .411,e re.
solved then' into a Committee on the Neo Swot
Wales Duties.

Mr. Gout.autx stated, that the objett or the
Bill was to inderooify the Governor of Nen
Walt* from impositig and levying dotter, to
fume certain duties, and to authoripe
(it•vrto-
nseut of that place to put a duty ,111 spirits. It lint
beers long held, that by establi-hitig dt,.illerte. 111
New South Wales, the agriculture of that cum..
try would be ouch euceuraged. A Grutltuum 114,1

'Addy gone out who would inquire and ascerrein
whether it would be right to permit
and if he saw that it would be of advantage to
establish distilleries, to fix a certain duty on spirits
distilled in South Wales, which, whilst it would
encourage the agriculture of the country, would
check the improper consumption of spirits.
Mr. BENNETT condemned, as unconetitistional,
the power given to the Governors of New South
Wales to tax the people: without the authority of
Parliament. He said that taxation in some instances
was carried to excess, and operated heavily on
the oil trade.
The Resolutions, the substance of which were
elated by Mr. Gorillnirii, were then read, the
House resumed, and the Report was ordered to be
brought op to-merrniv.
NEW SOUTH WALES TRADE ACT.
Mr. GOULBURN stated, that the object of this
Bill was to permit vessels under a certain tonnage
to trade between the Cuited Kingdom and New
South Wales.
The Resolution was agreed to, the House re-
sumed, and the Report Adb ordered to he brought
up to-morrow.
CI'AYS AND MEANS.
On the motion el the Cu iNce.i.r.oit of the FA-
carol:tn. the Report sit the Committee of Ways
and Metros was brought up and read. •
0.1 the Reardotinii being read,
" That a sum of 244,000/, the surplus of last year's re.
yens', should be applied to the set care of the present year,"
Mr. Hung said, he would make a few observe.
tioha as to the present state of the debt. He con-
tended, that since the peace the interest of the debt
had not been reduced one shilling. lie stated. that
the funded debt had been decreased—the unfunded
debt had been increased, and a sum of 1,053,0001.
due to the Bank on Exchequer bills, and which
should have been paid, still remained due. It was, Ike
said, remarkable that the House had been for the
first time informed of this fact through the Report
of the Bank Committee, before whom the fact was
given in evidence. The Hon. Gentleman, after
some other observations, concluded by repeating,
that the interest of the debt had not in any manner
decreased since the war.
The Cluncxrrott of the EXCHEQUER Said, a
wry slight examination of the financial state of the
country would enable him to explain the points on
which the Hon. Member had touched. Ilia argu-
ment was, that though a considerable decrease hail
taken place is the funded debt, yet, taking the whole
charge, of funded and unfunded debt together,
there was, in point of fact, no decrease whatever.
The Hon. Gentleman admitted. that the funded
debt, on the sth ofJanuary last, was diminished about
98,000,000/s—of course the interest of that
being 900,000/. per annum. had ceased. With re-
spert to the unfunded debt, the Report ,of the
Finance Committee shewed an increase of capital
to the amount of about 4,ooo.oooE—if being, 00
the sth of January, 1816, 41,000,000/. and on
the sth of January last, 45.000,000/. But the
Honourable Gentleman would recollect, that, in
1816, the whole debt bore an interest of 5 per
cent. making a total of 2,soo,oooL—while the
45,000,0001. of unfunded debt which existed in
January last, paid only 3 per cent. being a decreased
interest of *OO,OOOI. Therefore, there was a de-
crease of 900,0001. interest on the 25,000,0001. of
funded debt, and of 800,0001. on the 45.000,000/.
unfunded, making un aggregate of 1,700,000/.
The Hon. Gentleman said there was an arrear of
raterest due to the Bank on Exchequer bills; but
he had not stated that the only reason why that in-
terest was not paid, was merely because the Bank
refused to exchange the principal. The constant
rule was, not to consider the interest due until the
principal was paid off or the bills exchanged. When
either was done, the interest was immediately paid.
'lite interest certainly created au outstanding arrear,
but it was already provided for by the taxes voted
by Parliament. The Honourable Member stated,
that a paper had been laid before the House, spew.
iiig the addition made to the public debt iu the
last ten years; and he complained that this ac-
count, which, by the terms of the Act of Parlia-
ment, ought to be presented to the House fourteen
slays after the commencement of the Sean )))) . had
lint been produced until a late period. The fact
was, that the materiels of the account, which was
made up to the 25th of March, could not be
procured in time to have the document in readi-
ness to present at the period specified by the
statute. It would, therefore, be necessary to alter
and amend the Act, which, as it now stood, re-
quired that which was impossible. The HMI. Gentle.
man, in referring to that account, observed that the
last item was a sum of 1,600,000/. for the charge
of the loan of last year, for which no provision had
been made. He however begged to remind the
ilon. Gentleman, that, since the account had been
mode up, Parliament had provided for the whole
of that sum by voting 3,000.000/. of taxes.
Mr. Hume said, he understood those times to
have been voted specifically in aid of the sinking
fund.
The CHANCELLOR of the Excimuss said, it
had been repeatedly stated that the taxes wow levied
went to provide for the iutereat and charge of the
loan for the last and the present year—and farther
to create a real, and not a nominal sinking fund
to a certain -extent.
The Resolutions were then agreed to—and Bills
ordered to be introduced in conformity therewith.