The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1804-07-03 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

A new writ was ordered to be issued for a Mem-
ber to serve for the Borough of Aylesbury, to fill
up the vacancy caused by the decision of a Commit-
tee, for trying the merits of the late ele'hon there.
Another writ was ordered for Buckingham; in
the room of the Right Hon. Thomas Grenville,
who has accepted the Chiltern Hundreds.
Mr. Poot.e obtained le•.bve to bring in a Bill to
vest iit His Majesty certain messuages and tenements,
for the better accommodation of His Majesty's ships
and ordnance at Chatham,
Mr. Husaissois moved, that there be laid before
the House au Account of the gross produce of the
Duties on Stamps, up to the ith of January, 1804,
ordered,

The same were then presented at the B tr, and
referred to the Committee of Ways and
Several Accounts relative to the Civil List were
brought up, and laid before the House.
Mr. Joitto,om, from the Othce of the Chief Se-
cretary in Ireland, presented certain accounts, rela-
tive to that country, at the Bar of the House.

DOLLARS.
Mr. STURGESS BOURNE' moved the third
reading of ,heßill for preventing the counterfeiting of
dollars,

Mr. FRANCIS said, he had many ohjeetioas to
this Bill. It went to sandion, by an ad of the Le-
gislature, a proceeding which he conceived to be at
once novel and unconstitutional. This proceeding
WAS the power which individuals assumed of issuing
money in imitation of the current coin of the realm.
This was a privilege which belonged only to His
Majesty ; and it was highly dangerous to suffer it
to be exercised by any company. It would be
holding out the strongest encouragement to others
to make counterfeit coin. The Dollars, that were
now issued by the Bank of England, bore about
them all the marks of the current coin of the king-
dom, which, at all former times, had been issued in
the name of the King only. If these dollars were
meant only to be tokens, they might as well be is-
sueJ in paper to the same amount : and if they were
issued only as a deposit, they could not be properly
considered as such, because their nominal was not
equal to their real value. He wished to know why
they could not at once be issued at a rate,proportbn..l
to the intrinsic valae of the quantity of silver they
contained, and not at a rate so much higher than
the value if brought to the market. The Hon.
Member then took notice of the Dollars which were
issued some time ago by the Bank and called in
again ; and complained of the hardships the public
had suffered in consequence of that proceeding.
Numbers of persons had taken Dollars which they
thought had come from the Bank ; and which the
Bank afterwards refused to take back from them.
Tne Bank had also issued a proclamati nil desiring
the public to deliver in all dollars in their bands.
within a certain period, and that after that period
none should be taken. This, he contended, was a
hardship upon the pnblic ; it was unjust, and it was
a thing which the Bank had no right to do. Now
that they were permitted to issue Dollars in another
shape, he hoped that provision would be made to
oblige the Bank to take them back again within a
certain time.

Mr. STURGESS BOURNE defended the Bill as
one to which the arguments of the lion. Gentleman
did not in any respea apply. This Bill did sot go to
give new powers to any individuals, but only to
proteft a-sd give greater security to the property of
a compar y which had iuued certain tokens upon its
own credit. These were not issued as beano g the
chArafter or impression of the current coin of the
realm ; but given as securities from that company
alone. The only crestion then was, whether it was
not better to issue them in money, in order to pre-
vent those forgeries and counterfeits which must
take place to a great extent, if they were issued in
paper The Hon. Gentleman might as well objet
to a Bill brought in to prevent the forgery of Bank
Notes; and *Lit on the ground of such notes being
made in a particular shape. There was no compul-
sion on the public, as to taking the dollars in ques-
tion ; they were found to be the most convenient
circulating medium at this time; and the shape the
dollars now issued, was the best calculated to pre-
vent frauds upon the public. \Vith respe4t to fixing
a time for calling them in, the Bill was wholly silent
on that point, nor dill he see what necessity there

was for such a provision. • As to what the Hon.
Gentleman said, relative to en advertisement corn-
ing from the Bank, there certainly was a mi.take on
that stibjed ; for no such praCtice had prevailed as
that or the Bank refusing to take, after a certain
petiod, dollars previously issued by them. 1
Mr. FRANCIS spoke in explanation.
Lord FOLKSTiONE said he wits hippy to find
this suhjed had arrested the attention of -tha House.
now under :oosideration could not be ob-
jedecito as.a measure merely to prevent the counter-
feiting of dollars. Bet he objected to any measure
that went to hold out these• dollars as pact of the
,coin of the kingdom. H. ohjetted to His Majest;;'s
image being make I upon them ; and to •Ite support
and countenance that was now to be given to that
coin, by the present Bill: Although issued by the
Bank, the public was to consider it as a par, of the
coin of the country ; and as such, be ehiteled to it.
Whatever was considered the coin of the king.
dom, ought not to be issued by any but His Ma;e3.
ty. It war therossumption of an aft of sovereignty
in the Rank to do so; and consequently a proceed.
ing which Parlianient ought not to sentlion. He
also objeaed to the proceeding, on account of the
difference between the nominal and real value of the
coin. Each piece was to pass for ss. and its real
value was only 4s. 6d. It was the same thing as if
101 d. was to he issued for a shilling. The public,
therefore, had not sufficient secnrity for the whdt;
of the sum at which they took these tokens.
Mr. PITT said, that he had never entertained
any idea, that these tokens were to be considered as
the current coin of the kingdom. They were only
another kind of Bank Notes, for a smaller amount.
Every argument, founded on the assumption of
these being current coin, Was inapplicable to this
Bill. All that the Legisature now did was this.
It was found a matter of great public conveni•nce,
that the Bank of England should i•sue silver notes
of comparatively small value • and it was equally
convenient and Leeman', to pis by a Legisle-
tive proceeding, that the counterfeiting of these
shaold be a crime, its the same manner as the coun-
terfeiting of notes. This was all the present Bill
proposed to do. How far these dollars ought to
make a part of the circulation of the errantry, that
Was another question, not connected with the parti-
cular measure then before the House. The only
question now was, wherive it Was not desirable to
prevent the enormous abuse of coining; and to pre-
vent the Rank of England from being =posed upon
by those ceunterfeits, which, without such a pt r.
vision us this, might be made with impunire.
Mr. %YINDHAM said, he could not nhien to any
provision that went to prevent the com.
mission of
crimes, and the great public inconvenience arising
from counterfeits. But whet he complained of in
the measure in cpiestion, was th it two epeiations,
distinct in their nature, were not kept %limbs& in
their appearance. He n idled to know why these
dollars, issued by the Rank, were put so mu, h in
the form end chareeer of coin, th..t they weal.: be al
considered as having more of the sanaion of Go.
vernment, than it was the intention or Grivernm-nt
to give to them ? The Parliament might tell the
Bank they should not put the King's Lead on the
dollars issued by them, and they should not ie.
'amble what they were not. If they were nothing
more than tokens, let all idea of coin be kept apart.
Nothing should have been done in a mixed equivocal
manner : nothing should be dons to excite the jea-
lousy of the Sovereign, whose privilege was thus
invaded.
Mr. H. THORNTON was ready to admit that
the remarks made by the Right Hon. Gentleman
who spoke last, and others, werinot unfounded; but
they did not apply to this Bill. It certainly was not
desirable that any company of men should do that
which was the prerogative of the Crown. With
respell to these silver tokens of the Bank, he must
say, they were issued at that amount which ought
to be the value of silver in England. On the same
principle, these tokens in Ireland were to pass at
the rate of six shillings, in order to accommodate
them to the state of the Exchange in that country.
He certainly objected to the principle of public bo.
dies having the privilege to do ads that properly be-
longed to the Sovereign. But this ohjeCtion must
ba done away when it was considered that the pre-
sent was only a temporary expedient.
Mr. DEN l' said, the measure its question only
went to give ease and facility to the circulating me-
dium of the country at large, and of Loss on io
particular ; which were much indebted to those idua
had brought it forward.
Mr. Parr, in explanation, said, that the "
of England" was marked on all the Dollars.
Mr. PKINSLP contended, there was in this loss..
sere the strongest temptation to counterfeit, wallet
even adulterating the silver. The standard virus
of a dollar was 4s. 3d. What was there then to al
prevent men from getting. new Dollars at ..1 giving
them the shape of those issued by the Batik ; and
then gaining 9d. on each of them t
Mr. JOHNSTONE contended, that government
was ROW enabling the Banks of Engiand and Ire-
land to commit a fraud: for they would pay their
debts in a coin whose real was less than its nominal
value.

Mr. PITT answered, that the Bank was liable to
take back these dollars, and give for them the sum
at which they were issued.
The Bill was then read a third time, and passed.
MR. JCSTICE FOX.
Colonel COLE pre3ented a Petition from
Irwine, Esq. of Rockfield, in the county of Per-
managh, stating, that he had bon I Ii7:1 Sheriff for
that County; that during the Ass•ces there, it WaS
necessary for him to proceed to the verge of the
county, to meet the Judges ; and that, in execution
of his Office. he did so. 1:11t :11r. Justice Fox,
who was one of the Judges at the Assizes, al.
vanced to the place of meeting, much earlier, and
with more expedition, than v. as elpeEted ; he had,
therefore, artived at the extremity of the countr.
before the Petitioner; who, however, shortly afar

V s

*met him at another place, and, withhis hat in his
hand, went up to apologise for the mistake ; but
Judge Fox, in an insultirg manner, drove on, with-
out nearing what Petitioner had to say. When the
• Petitioner afterwards went to him to explain this bu-
siness, the Judge desired :him, in a commending
:tone, to take his hat off; reproached him in the
grossest and most insulting language, for neglect of
duty ; and gave threttiens that he should be fined
5001. T!tt Petitioner huMbly conceived, that he
had committed no crime to merit this opprobrious,
abusive, and injurious treatment ; declared that he
could verify on oath the fads he stated : that he
'felt himself injared and degraded; and prayed the
House so grant him such redress, as, in its wisdom,
it should think tit.
The Petition was ordered to lie on the Table.
A peeton from the Exchequer presented an ac-
count of certain sums of money, that had been
granted, parsnamt to addresses of the flout:;', and
which had not been made good by Parliament.
AFFAIRS OF IitFLANII.
On the order for the third reading or the Irish
Caroms and Excise Duty Bill ;
\lr. 111.1 fCHINSON said, he should beg leave
i to trouble the House with sonic observations on the
wretched state of the finances of Ireland. The debt
of that country, he said, was now 53,000,0001. and
it appeared their, while her mannfadures were almost
annibilited, while her provision trade was declin-
ing, she had in one year added 9,500,0001. to
her debt, while Great Britain, with the most
flourishing mallufalEtures, with a degree of prosperi-
ty which extended to the utmost limns of the globe,
bad added but twelve millions to her debt in that
period. lide was a situation which one eras ::!most
‘ afraid to look at. Ile must, however, do justice to
the energy with which a Right lion. Gentleman
(Mr. Fosses-) had come forward with a view of re-
medying :hese evils ; and be was sere he was actu-
ated by the best intentions. He agreed with hint in
the necessity of contributing in every possible way
towards the attainetent of that objea. The gentle-
melt of Ireland were very ilesperly called upon to
look their difficulties in the face ; and unite together
to ri- wove them. He cordially agreed in this ap-
peal : he was confident it was a sweet of .such tome
hat had caused the distress and degradation cf
Ireland ; and tad no doubt but that if the gentle-
men of Ireland e iatliei.• supported etch ottee,
, 'they would be as birdied, joried by the other N.,.
bL:s n: the legislature. On this occasion he most
enter his protest against an opinion which had by
some means or other gone abroad. the. Iris.: -
rnen ought not to intelfere in question. im-
mediately relating to Great Britain (a cry of
Aca..: flat!), nor Englishmen in questions relating
to Ireland. He should lament and deplore aoe at-
tempt to carry such a principle into elfe& i., .if
any benefit was ever expeeled from the union, 1. e s
this, that Ireland :night have the benefit of the ex-
perience and wisdom of the whole Legislature of
the three kingdoms. The Right lion. Gentleman
proposed, as a remedy for the grievance: of Ireland,
that taxes to the amount of le,oool. be ierieil, and
that the Gentlemen of the cou::t. y would end.....vniti
to see those taxes pr. iperly collefled. He trusted
that the Right Hon. Gentleman would not consitier
these two arrangements as sulficient of there:elves
ir to save that sink:ng country from ruin. For his
' own part, he should violate every feeling he pos-
t, sesied, s' he did .ot say that much more was ne-
eessory for the j•utpese of maker tb.• p. ople of
Inliii...l assist in th:s great undertaei. g. In the
formation of the Tres en Ministry, he very much
lamented the principle of exclusion that had been
aged on, by which the country was deprived of the
!* benefit of those talents which were wanting at
the present critical period. Yet when he looked
at a Right tiononrable Gentleman opposite him,
under whose government, for near twenty years,
Iteland had in some respeets prospered, and fr't
many privileges; when he knew the experience
of that Right Hon. Gentleman, and when he recol-
letned the reason of his retiring from that office to
which he now returned; h e was inclined to omen fa-
vourahly for his unhappy country, and to hope that
the Right Hun. Gentleman; no: forgetting the pro.
mist he had made, would benefit by his experience I
and in his closet, during the ensuing recess, would
I tern his gigantic mind to the subjea of Ireland, and
think upon what might be done for its relief
.and
amelioration. He felt himself bound to make tnese
observations, when he was called on to impose addi-
tional hurtl.ens on his country, that was already in
an impoverished state. He must now call the atten-
tion of the House to the political state of Ireland,
and ask what security had the people at this
moment ntrainet arbitrary imprisonment, or the
exercise of martial law? What liberty was there
in Irelaud ? The lii,erty depended ( a die will
of the chief governor, who had extraordinary powers
vested in h:m ; and althoush these were exercis-
ed by Lord Ilardwicke with such mildness and
justice, as to draw the people into a belief, that
they did not exist at all, yet the powers might be
• pet in force by any ether governor, and until they
were done away, no cordial co-opera:ten could be
expelled from the people of Ireland. The Right
Hon. Gentleman ought to consider, that Ireland
was on the very verge of bankruptcy. Every thing
belonging to her Frcsent situation chewed the neces-
sity of an immediate examination of her grievances ;
and that it was neither by taxes nor by armies the
country was to be secured, bin by gaining and ri-
* vetting the alicaions of the people.

I/ The further proceedings on the third reading of
the Bill were postponed till to-rno: :ow.
Sir JOHN SINCLAIR gave notice, that he
would to-morrow submit a proposition to the Ilouse
relative to corn in Scotland.
ANTIQUITIES IN TILE BRITISII MUSEUM.
Mr. ROSE presented a petition from the trustees
of the RI-kith Mii.eum, in which they stated, that
by order c: the Government, tbcy now had lately
lot into their possession ..everal most valuable mo-
w:mots of antiquity, which were brought from
Erpt, aud which formed a part of the trophies
gained by. British valour in that country ; that for
want of corvenient places to deposit them in, they
were exposed to the inclemency of the weather, and
for want of covering, were Eahle to sustain coasider-
able injiny ; that a Committee of the trustees had
Prepared a pLn and estimate of an additior.at build-
ing, the experoce of would amount to 16,0001.
an.. prayed that the /lou,e might take into its con-
...aeration, tine propriety of enabling them to carry

that plan into ellen. The petition, being read, was
ordered to lie on the table.

iir JOHN SINCL AIR said, the sum named in
the petition was a very large oi:e, and he wished to
know whether that sum was to he called for in the
first instance, or whether th•e petition was to be re-
ferred to a seleCt ?
_ _

Mr. ROSE said, the trurees had concluded that
the necessary wi it k could not be done for a less sum.
A survey might be made, if it should be thought
necessary.
Mr. FRANCIS thought 16,0X/1. a large sum to
shelter those ant4iiLics from the inclemency of the
weather.

Mr. PITT said, the objea of the petitioners was
n,t merely to cover them from the weather by throw-
ing a shed over them, but to make such an addition
to the building itself as should render it a fit resi-
dence for those and other valuable monuments which
might hereafter be placed there. It must occur to
every buds that this ought to be done in a way to
suit the symmetry of the building, and that no dis-
grace should attach to the nation it character by the
negleL of such a public
Mr. SI lERIDAN hoped, that, if the public was
to be obliged to pay towards the enlargement of this
building, more facility might be granted to the
public in gaining admission to the museum; which
was now very difficult to he prc.cured.
Mr. W. SMITH thought it highly necessary to
support this national institution, and thought the
sum reytired was a trifle compared to the sums ex-
pearled in otht things.
After some 4,l),erv.itions from Mr. Bat and Sir
YouNo, th.: petition was ordered to Fr on the
table.

Mr. PITT moved, that the plan and estimate
made out by the Trustees be laid before the House,
that the House might judge how far it was proper
to take the petition into consideration. This Tr:o-
dor, after some observations liom Dr. Liwasxca in
favour of the petition, was agreed to.