The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1807-03-06 00:00:00

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4.11.

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tl',7*(l

General of the Ordnance, and General of the Staff.
trhotigh they may hold the rank of General, yet
it Ards not thought prurient in the Welt AR to el-
-1 them to hold that Conimienon upin the Starr,
this latter one .hie; more snbjea to actual serene.
le is, I must aver, ie the meet bulking incongruity
east ever existed in any country. liy tiler law, the
eestholics of out atery in Irehod, are cely
lender the h. set vces there, arid ceneot be brouzlit
,to this part of tee Carted lienedom fir its cratec-
,.,,,,, even upon the greetest exig,-icy, and the mast
e-rileus danger of ,Real .e‘t 'test, the
talent a Commissioned Offizer is brought into this
itintry, he is disq • ilitied from acting in his official
eeeacity, and is oihjefled to the alternative of re:ir-
i 7,, and renouncing. altogether, that profession, in
%vetch he, perhaps, has already signalised himself,
liv .us meritorious services, or might be disposed te
del se., ripen the first opportunity afforded him, in
deeereer of his King and country. I should think it
si only necesset y to state this great absurdity
and ieconvenience, in order to chew the propriety,
the jun rhos and the policy of puttiag the laws, upon
this su 8, into thither state. This inconvenience
eta. even felt so considerably, at the time of passing
th rt ea, that it was in the contemplation of
the I oeieleture, to pass a similar as in this
cent .toy, but owing to various circumstances, it
never has yet taken place ; but distina promises
were made in both Houses of Pathernent, in the
!Thaw of Peet s by the Earl of Claire , and in the Home
sefi Con:melts by the Earl of Duckinghamehire. Thi.•
e,tenni.tanee will recall to the recolleetion of the
1 loiter*, th.it flit Ntlejesty's former Government were
iechned to propose a simile? Bill with all convenient
reiseeteh in this country. It is that very objea
which I bow propose to put ie.° praflice, so as to
pet an end to the inconvenience complained of, to re-
ii:ezt the pledge which waeglven by the English Go-
vernment, and to keep grind !aids with the Catholics of
I reland. The beneficial elf:As of that Irish Aft. were
soon aft erwards felt, nor can it be said, that the slrght-
eat incnevenience Lae ethics frnm it. Since the passing
of that Ad, many indiei luaus of the Catholic per-
ettesion have materially signalised themselves. wit-
ness the exploits upon the plains of Egypt and
Calabria. In short, the pi egree, of that At has
been the means, in a great measure, of extending
the power, consolidating the strength, and augment-
trig the glory of our Country. It still continnes at
Pits moment to h.ve the tweet beneficial effease--
The present measure is therefore a necessary
consequence of the Irish ..va of Parliament,
and amounts to no new concession.--Haring
stated thus generally the ot-to* in view, and
the benefits to he derived from it ; I shall next
advert to the d fferelices wh:ch are to esist between
this and the Ad of tire Irish Pathemeut. In
the first place, this Bill goes to allow all persons
whatever religion they rosy profess, to se: ye sn the
Navy as well as in the Army. At the passing
of the farmer Aa, an assurance was given w
the Catholics, that a Bill should be brought in
to enable them is enjoy Commissions a
in
the Navy ; and the citify reeson why the Navy
veal not 11ClUdta in treat Irish Act was, that
a'tes pat Government had not the power to ex-
Lend such a prov.sioa to the naval department,
Ireland having no !easy. Tins pert rbf she essli •ift
Las been hitherto Tree:eel to be accomplished by
this Imperial Perliainent. if it be right, that the
Catholic. should enjoy tl.ose privileges when levy-
ing in the army, these can be t:o deuet of the pro-
priety of share:laying them equally in the naval
service of the country. If tee. ehe any danger to
be appritheureee from a Ceteoltc Army, that dan-
ger u.u.t sortie he increased by that army serving
in a country tc.rie their religious tenets end prep
dices OreVAII to the gre.tes: extent. Ireland, 1
shoelal eey, would be the country where such dan-
gers were need to br apprehended, yet no sock dan-
eer bas been exert !rimed . In the present
MIL. it is also proposed to grant an extension of
privileges, and to do away the teetrietions which 1
have stared to exist in the Irish A. 1 mean
the reetriaions, as to the Catholics holding the situa-
tions of Commander in Chief, Master General of
the Ordnance, and General on the Staff. I will
not propose any such restriair.n, in the present Bin,
because I do not think it is founded upon
any good principle. (.4 erg Ife,r bal.!)
If I thought there was danger in such an admis-
sion, I certainly should nut wish to obviate it, by
timing iestreints, but by effeeting a general exclu-
sion. rhe present Ball will, therefote, admit Ca-
tholics, generally, into the Army and Navy, without
any alluestm to rank The restriaions, in the Irish
Aft, have been found to be attended with many in-
eonveniencies to the service. A Catholic may be
a Colonel, commanding a regiment, but should
he be cede! upon to take the commend of several
regiments. even by the unanimous voice of ail
who know Lis met its, when in aaual service, he can.
not assume tee command, as a elajer-General.
'lbis, I think, is not only a disadventage to the
officer himself, but to the enundry, when placed
.w, that situetion. I cannot think that such appoint-
ments would be prejudicial to the security of the
cou, t. y, when it is considered, that His Majesty has
the eppeiitting of these General OfEcen ; those si-
tnetimee will therefore he occuied by men who will
Iv p eviouely approved of by the Executive Govern-
ment ; and we .ue not to suppose that any Execu-
tor, Goveteinent would appoint any whiteout:l be
erispos.,l CO prove dangerous. The Imam up of
these resuiniees, keeps alive a spirit of chseentent,
teed, to damp tee enirit of the enterptieing
solder, and my ptev.mt :Aro f: um being occupied to
nets the most beneficiel for the set vice of his country.
This bill is farteer to provide for the free exercise of
their eel ion, se far as it does nut interfere with
emir military duties. believe eoneehing of this
kind exists already, by: I em afraid that there has
been some degree of a ruisgaided teal, which lute
prevented its cemptete acccmplishruent, and this has
been the means of exciting discontent in the ewe-
y. I propoor to secure dile Mica i.s the mane of
a clew in the Al of Parliament, eirryiort with it
the setellios of the Legislature iteelt; order
to remove all doubt !lane :he sehjea. These
pins:sisals in the Bill are therefore so sepatat-
ed, that where (Net/lone exist against the one,
i;.ey will not apply to the other. The ohjea of
a:ceiling to them that degree of religious 'abet-
rr.s. is merely to prevent them

provide for them any religious estahlishment,
such
as chaplains, salaries. &c. but only to allow them
to exercise their religious devotions in anyrnauaer
they may thick proper, when not interfering with
ii:, public shay. I can lei dly think, that any
-et icrus oliretioa can possibly he urged against such
a reasonable proposal. The measure, upon the
whnle, will tend to excite a laudable ambition, and
will prove a great means of security to the country.
Vs ith regard to the increase of our army, it will be
productive of the greatest advantage ; for it has al-
ready been experienced, that much more of
the population of Ireland would enter iota
the arly, wer iot for the restrAints im-
posed roupon thee m. t n
Such a measure not hav-
ing been adopted sooner, has been the means.
of agitating discontent', and proving a 'curse ut
danger to the Country." On all these giounds,
without enlarging further, he should content him-
self with moving, for leave to bring .in a fill, to
enable His Majesty to avail himself of the services
of all His liege snivels, in His Naval and .Military
Force, in tl'e manner dee ein mentioned.
Mr. PERCEVAL—" Sir, I rite to state, that, in
my opinion, the principle of this proposed 131:1
such that I shall think myself bound to oppose it in
every stag-. Feeling such obi ...aloes as I do to the
principle of it, I think it necessaryto apprise the
Noble Lord. and to call the attention of the House
and the public, even at this early stage ofits pro-
gress. to what I deem of the utmost importance, the
pointing out the dangerous tendency of this annum.
It is not this individual measure alone that I con-
ceive to be so olijeCtionable; bat I look un his
as only being a part of that whole principle
e hid, is gradually growing, day by day, upon us
If we do mean to guard our counts!, and to afford
it that proteaion which our ancestors have sought
to surioend it with, it is alone to be effigled, by
making a stand against every indivi twit step that
is taken, inimical to the welfare and security
of the Church and Sate. I am persuaded, Sir, that
the itieesin es th.t: are proposed, day by day, in this
Hon -e, ceierot sop short of a total repeal of all
those tests, s. hich it has been thenlit necessary by
our ancestors to establishdor the safetyof our country.
This present measure is a partial repeal of the Test
Aa, founded upon tegument' of reasoning, which
apply exclusively to the repeal of the whole of the
Test and Corporation Laws ; because, if they are
to be repealed at ad, 1 do not see any reason for
arguing, that they should not be totally repealed,
by extendiug such a Bill to other euhje.fts. lam
one of those who think. that nothing is su import-
ant to the welfare and traiiiiiielity of that pert of
the United Kingdom, celled Ireland, as the
upholding of the Protestant Ascendency, and
A Protestant Establishment. If you mean to
preserve that counti y and this united, if you
du useaa to pieserve that teleratinn which we
are all desirous of presetviug, I wish to have
the wails of preserving that cstabaMment by
waieh 1 know practically that toleration can be
established. This is not to he effeeled by handing
poetsr to those wile. when they had it, did not to.
' les a-e. Cast we think it coiseietent with wisdom and
liberality to mite an establishment in the body of
teat kingdom. to have a permanent interest therein,
ro as to counteract evety establishment which our
ancestors have wisely created for fee encouragement
of Protestantism? The Noble Loid thinks that
this measure will be beneficial in creating and
I supporting a spirit of ambition at emulation in
t.'se country. and that the continuance et restric-
tions will have a conuasy tendency. This may
truly be denominated, a Christian spirit of tolera-
tion; but. wi!h regard to this, 1 have a contrary
eonviaion. I have as complete a regard for that
kind of toleration as any mint and would not
wish to constrain any mart in his religious exercises
and opinions ; and this I conceive to he toleration.
I think there cannot be a greater crime commit-
ted by one man against another. than to impose
tests= is in the exercise of religious duties Now,
the Noble Lord proposes opening the Army and
Navy to those persons called Catholics; and he
fr.unds his principles on the At of 1;93, passed in
the Irish Parliament; and he argues upon the
footing of its being a species of seventy, the pie-
s:frying such a law in Ireland. and not re-
tending it to this country, when the soldier
is compelled to come from the one coun-
try to the other; but I will not in any degree
add my c.ensent to an enlargement of any pri-
vilege of this description, without seeing a Elting.
er and clearer case made out, to show that the
grievances a&smally exist, which are so complain-
ed of. The grievance which he principally alludes
to, if it can practically exeit, must have exited
previous to the Union, as well as At the present
hour. Nay, Sir. it is a grievance which he must
tell us has existed not only since the Union with
Ireland, but even since the Union with Scot-
land ; for there is not one instance of the inconve-
nience of the Lish serving there and not here, which
lis nut equally felt by the Presbyterian ar! &sta.
blohed Churchman of Scotland entering into the
army. The Scotch Presbyterian is no more dis-
posed to take the Sacrament. according to the Eng-
lish form, than the Catholic is. But has there been
a backwardness upon that account to enter into the
army ? and has there been any inconvenience ex-
pel iensed after they have entered? If there has
been such, it must have existed since the Union
with Scotland ; but I deny that any inconvenience
dias exist in peitit of law. It is impossible that it
can he so contended. that the Irish Catholic, by
coming to this country, Mears penalties. The eon,-
pelting a man to tl.) what is contrary to his duty.
would riot reader his as illegal. When an Mt of
PoiliAmetit sanaions a men's condme, it not only
autoerises bat legalises the duty which it com-
mands. Such then, is the situation of the law,
a: is at present stands. The Roman Catholic is
enabled to enliie himself into the army, and to hold
erioimiions to a certain extent therein. by
a clause which is included in the Mutiny Ae.
which passes every year ; an Mt which com-
pels every man to obey its provisions, and in
Case of disobedience, to incur a punishment, in
some caees amounting to death. It this he the
case, then i is evident that eve! y :nen wen obeys it,
does not incur a penalty—if he des ibrys, he would
be sc. Iseynod that, if there were any ineon-
, ven strict expeilimeed, would net the Annual intlem-
e it awav ? Certainly it

such an Ad should be brougla forward. Tbdis
who arc qualified to at in Ireland, may. by
the
orders cf the Legislature, be at any time qua.
lified to do so in this c ;natty also. But the
testriftions in the Irish A:Li el Parliament, as to
tire superior commands in the army, are to be
done away, and that t,o upon arguments which
go to repeal the Test Aa. But do these arguments
not apply to other protr,,inis as well as to the nil-
litare ? It is said to he .I.i,courirg to the soldier,
that Ire cannot case to ter ev.n.cise of the utmost
height of his prokssion ; and so it is, in :egad to
every other probes-ion in the country. So it is in
my profession. Roman Catholic Lawyers cannot
look to be Judges, nor can they aspire to the Chan-
' celioiship. 1 see that Gentlemen are prepared to
acqniesee in the justice of this remark, and to say
that that restridion also should not stand. , Nay.
Gentlemen, the argument gees yet further, it
goes to the Crown itself; as well as to the
situation of every Officer of the State. 13ut,
Sir, it had better be so, rather than be car-
ried to that extent, which, though not expressed, I
am confirmed in my opinion, will be the ultimate
result of going thus step by step towards the com-
pletion of that object. This measure, in its pro-
gress, will open a road to introduce Catholics to
the free exercise of all professions whatever, by re-
moving gradually all the present existing obstruc-
tions. I wish to bring the House. and the public,
to the important considerxian, that this measure
is not to be determined alone upon the ground
of the propriety of admitting officers to these rank:,
hut it extends to this point, whether, by continu-
ing the reasoning, you ate to encourage still farther
expedations, that you are to do something more—
that you are to fee their appetites by encouraging
their hopos and desires? You are thus giving the
Catholics reson to exped, that, by perseverance,
they will obtain what the; want. Such will be the
fatal effeds of the experiment of feeding their ap-
petites. it would be as well to do every thing,
if you wish to do any thing. You mu,t establish
the Roman Catholic Religion, or you do ro-
tting. If you do almost immediately consign
the country of Ireland to the Catholic Religion,
you have not satisfied them. It is impossible to
imagine, that the Catholics there should not be
more desirous to pay then tythes to the professors
of their own faith, than to those of any other.
'lle question, I say, is, whether the Protestant
Establishment is to be given up into the hands of
the Roman Catholics ? or whether we are to stand
and say that we have done nothing but what the ad
of toleration requires ? Beyond that toleration, every
thing must be governed by sound policy and discre-
tion; and, therefore, I say, that you have not
tranquillised, but rather created, a wish for more
concessions. Policy and discretion tell you, that
you should no; proceed in this manner, or grant any
thing which can encourage a disposi ion to aSiC
for more than you will ultimately be disposed to
give. The Noble Lord would have led you to be-
lieve, that the greatest part of the Navy and
Army of Great Brit iia are Roman Carholic,,
and to them were due all the vidories we have ob-
tained. it this be so, then the truth is, that Ova.,
of the Catholic persuasion are not excluded from
coming Into the service either of the navy cr army,
and therefore such arguments ought nut to have
been held by the Noble Lord, in support of his pre-
sent measure. The alleged gticvance then is prov-
ed to be a false one ; and, therefore, the present is
the proper state for matters to endure in. The
Articles of War would be the best mode of in-
troducing whet is aimed at, as it affords His Ma-
jesty an opportunity of correding such privileges,
from time to time, as may be required. But if
you' make any legislative provision upon this sub-
jed, you encourage Methodists, Presbyterians, Ro-
man Catholics, and, irAhort, every other se 1, but
those of oar own Church ; if you give leave to
every description of soldier to rise to the highest
rank, to what situation do you reduce our army ?
There are no such previsions for direding the
soldier in the due exercise of the Establish*
Religion of the country, while we are thus
,so anxious about establishing the exercise of
the Roman Catholic faith ! The Noble Lord
teals you, that his scheme is completely new, as
to the navy, as mthing was included in the AA
of 171t3, their favour, by the Irish Government.
I suppose, then, that sailors too will have the free-
dom of religious worship, as well as in the army.
We must have Roman Catholic priests on board
of every ship, or we must have no priests at all.
We shall have Roman Catholic captains, and
a Roman Catholic crew. Suppose, then, that
there was an invasion of Ireland to take place, by
Bonaparte, in order to establish the Roman Catho-
lic Religion in that country, I think that the expedi-
tion, so sent, would not be so safely, or so street ually
encountered by ships occupied by Roman Catholic
captains and crews. Therm may be thought cu-
rims considerations; hut these, and various others,
make me look with jealousy to the particular princi-
ple of this Bid, which, I think, is operating al a grow-
ing evil, and will assume a more formidable appear-
ance when it presents itself again to our view, and
steals upon us in another shape thatt it would actu-
ally do at this moment, were it ro be proposed to
be carried to its utmost extent. If it came altoge-
ther, Parliament would naturally make a great ex-
ertion. and whatever Parliament would do would
be done wisely. These gradual approaches to the
ultimate nhje I. are not impeded by all at
the time of their Mtradulion, end not regard-
ed as to their ultimate efferd. i, for one, con-
wive, that by suffering these diff-rent steps to be
taken one after the other, there w ill he strength ac-
quired, and Parliament will not be able, at some
future period, to withhold what it would wish to
withhold. Parliament will lose that by its weakness.
which, in its judgment, it may condemn, but cannot
withhold afterwards. I shall at present conclude by
saying, that the whole measure has my deeded
hostility, but I shall postpone any further duet na-
tions till sem, future occasion."
Earl TEMPLE was happy to Lear the Right
Hon. and Learite I Gentleman state his opinions in
t ivrnsr of religious toleration, at the same time he
o-uld have wished to have found him carrying his
proferted principles on this subjed into practice.
The Learned Gentleman had supposes! the case of
the inv.oion of behind ay a Foreign Power, aecom-
-ied by a Bull from the Pope, and avowing the
radisilie Rtsligiwt, and be

asked, what alight be the efea of the presert Tara.
sure ia such a ease, as givinp alJi innal encourage-
nteut to I! e Catholics of Leland 3 but he cud

wish to ark that Learned Gentlemen, whether.
on the supposition of such an event, the efree of
rejeding the present Bill, and ourselng a sestern
of intolerance, would not disidr. a that bede. and so
tend to increase the danger ?• Tne Learned Gentle-
men had made use of an Argument against the
present measure, that it would 're! nueatery, unless
accompanied with te her concessions. and that it
would be doing nothing. naless Parliament proceed. :
esi to give the Catholics in Ireland an establish-
ment; but so far was this iirgumeat from being welt
founded, that the Irish Catholics themselves. la
their Petition. depr.c diet this very boon. Th.
Hon. and Learned Gehtlemen hail asked, what ne.
cessity was there for stub a Bill as the eresent,
which, in his opinion, would s.sp the foundation of
the Protestant estabiislament .it toe country, wheal a
declaratory law would be suffitient ? The Learned
Gentleman wished to give the Catholics in lolled
the power of serving iii the army, but, at the same
time, did not wish to extend the privilege to Calm-
lies in England, whilst those in the former countre
amounted to dace millions, whilst the number of
' those in England was cemparatively small, and
their influence proportionably so. Bu: the House,
1 he trusted, could not coincide with the teeter-
ing& of the Learned Gentleman on that sobjee.
The Hon. Gentleman was of opinion, that unless
Parliament threw era the whole of what was
wanted by the Cetleeies, it would he of no use to
grant them a pert. But to this a: eurnent he
considered it a sufficient answer to say, that ,d 1
! that was asked in the present instance was, a been
of a limited extent ; and that it was only in case el
more being asked, or twine a' tempted to be granted,
that the hon. Gentletnart's argument V:cti:d lore
i its efreet. In short, the whole question reauted,
itself to this, whether the yet& boon now asked,
was such as, if granted, could render the Catholics,
I either in this county or Ireland, the objects of j..a.
lousy or distrust ? In vast would it be to exiled allt.
gience from those, who wereeatehe same erne, tole,
that they were unfit to enjny the benefits sit that i.
logiance ; or to lonk for attachment from three, tribe
were riot to receive any support from the Gev he.
meta of the country.
Mr YORKE said, that be approved of the prin..
ciple of the Bill. so far as it wrist to connea tee
proceedings of the United ihtzliernent, to that of
the Irish_Perliament in 1;93; the Armies of Gies'
Britain and Ireland being row united and one, it
seemed the more necessary that the laws mix:nil
it should be the same iii both countries; bat Tree.
ther the Aa ~1,- the Irish Parliament should he cr.
tied to the extent proposed by the present Bill, be
considered as quite ano.her thing. It was, th.re-
fore, not t 3 be wonders i at, it his Right liennurae:e
Friend (Mr. Perceval), and others, entertained a
consider:Ode degree of jedousy on such a sufhd.
The prieciples of his Learned Friend were too ei •
lightened to have it insinuated, by the Noble fore
that they savoured of the derk ages. They woe
the principles which regulated ma ancestots at the
time of the Revolution and the l lenovcrian micas.
sion. He wished to know on what the Bill iit
Rights was founded? Or the AI which settled thr.
Crown on the Protestant House of Hanover. to the
eat:lesion of all Popish Claim*, is ? Were troae te
be branded as the produce of the dark ages ? Or
were the Founders of the Revolution, and tees: whi
were aftive in placing the House of Hanover on
the throne, to be branded as illiberal bigots ?
It appeared to him to be one of the senors
difficulties attending the present time, that it
mooted an inducement to favour innovations.—
However, when a choice of difficulties present-
ed itself, he was led to think that it mieht be
for the safety of the empire in some respells to re-
lax. Upon this ground, it appeared to him, that, as
the Catholics ware permitted to serve in the Irish
army, it would be advisable to extend this privilege
to the Army, and also to the Navy of the United
Kingdom. He wished not to make any distinflion
1 between any part of the suhjeas of the United King-
' dom ; hut, at the same time, as it was impossible to
forget the spirit of insurrection which prevailed
amongst the Irish Catholics in the year 1791•
so it must not be wondered at. if feelings d
considerable jealousy were recited on the present
occasion. As to the Roman Catholics of this coot•
try, they had undergone the purgation of centuries,
and must be considered as good and loyal subjeal.
He saw no necessity for iterodueing the presort
Bill, and perecularly that clause which went to air
thurise to all pers Ins in the Army art Navy, :rt
of the communion of the Church of England, tie
free exercise of their religions weeship ; for he bed
never heard any preillicel shakoes, stated, or any
real ground of complaint teipeOling Catholic Ort
cers and m n being prohibited from atteeding di-
vine worship in their own way ; and hr had per-
atonally known some Catholic Offerers in the AMY,
wi.n had made no difficulty of going with their doe
sion to church. When the Reformation ni.t tort
place. the Catholics made no objeftion to atteo4l the
worship, bnt only the sacraments of the Church of
England ; for although the Protestant Church et-
punge 1 and r, j^tted what they c msidered as er-
roneous, still it retained a part of the formulates
made use of in the Church of Rome ; he Civet ce
saw no rrions grievance existing, which required ie
be amnestied by Ase of Parliament ; and he reala
thought it was much better policy net to attempt to
remedy the grievance in this way, which slmuld IA
be resorted to without a case of strong necesste•
For the last :30 or 40 years, he beiieved, there si,Aa
no instance of officers being required to take tie
oaths; as the ptaftWe therefore was becoming co
solese, be thought it would be much better to let
things go on as at present, rather than to have suit
suhjens stirred no in that Hotter.
Mr MON PAGUF, declared, that he consid
whatever related to the Protestare Religion, as til
tinguirhed from the Roman Catholic, to be of
tient.: importance to this country. and that the p
servatioit of the Pinter ant establishment was esser
daily rig lints to maharaja the peace both of t
country and Ireland. Leon the subjeß dully.
the House had two principles to look to; the to!
was that of toleration, wi bout which nothing ow:
go on well in a country ; and next to this was e
s emits, of the establishment. He was afraid, it°l
the arguments which had been adduced by tl,
Noble A.:Rd who had introduced thus measure, Ibi
• i

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