The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1824-05-11 00:00:00

LONDON, TUESDAY, MAY 11, 1824.

PARLIAMENTARY INTELLIGENCE.

HOUSE OF LORDS. MONDAY, 31AY 10.

IRISH PAPERS.
Mr. Johnson, from the Ofllee dtht Chief Secretary of Ireland,
presented various papers, in purattaseltof their Lordships' orders.
LIVERPOOL DOCILCOMPANY.
Mr. Foster, from the Liverpool Dock Company, presented an
account of receipts
S andO disbursements
JUDICATUR for the year DM.
CTCH E.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL stated, that he should, to-morrow,
move for the revival of the Committee, which had bcen appointed
in a former Session, to consider of the state of Scotch Judicature.

SILK TRADE.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE informed their Lordships, that
he should, on Friday nest, move tbe second reading of the Bill
that he had introduced relative to the silk trade.
COMBINATION LAWS.
Lord HOLLAND presented a petition from the journeymen
sawyers of Manchester and Salford, praying for the repeal of the
Combination Laws.—Laid on the table.
FOREIGN WOOL DUTIES.
Lord CA LTHORP presented a petition from the wool-growers
of the neighbourhood of IVoodbridge, in Suffolk, praying that the
reduction of the duties on foreign wool may not take place. The
Noble Lord presented a similar petition from the wool.growers of
the county of Sufhilk ; both of which were laid on the table.
AFFIRMATION OF SEPARATISTS.
The Earl of DARNLEY presented a petition from certain Se-
paratists of Clare, Portarlington. and other places, praying that
their affirmations may be received in Coons of Justice to lieu of
their oatbs.
The Msnrole wf DOWNSHots pottigo 1,..13i1ar petition
from emelt Segmatists of) eirth4 Ammo r ifkijoh
were laid en the table.
MILITIA PAY RILL, Ike.
The Militia Pay Bill, the Sugar Bounties' Bill, the Rum
Duties' Bill, and the Liverpool Pilots' Bill, were read a third
time, and paned.
MESSAGE FROM TILE COMMONS.
Colonel Lygon, and other Members from the Commons, brought
up two private Bills, which were read a tint time.
HIGHLAND ROADS.
Their Lordships went into a Committee on the Highland Roads'
Bill, which was reported without amendments.

EXCISE DUTIES.
Earl HAREWOOD presented a petition from the licensed
victuallers of Halifax, In Yorkshire. praying, as w•e under-
stood, for the repeal of certain duties connected with their trade—
Laid on the table.

OAME LAWS.

Earl HAREWOOD presented a petition front the inha-
bitants of IludderstieW, in Yorkshire, praying for an alteration in
the Game Laws.—Laid on the table.
Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, MONDAY, MAY 10.

Sir O. HILL moved the second reading of the Londonderry Ca.
thedral Pepsin Pill. The Hon. Gentleman endeavoured to Justify
its policy on the ground of precedent.
LUSHINtIiTt IN contended that there was never before this
an application to Parliament for the sustentation of any episcopal
church. He thought it would be a measure tending to bring the
Clergy into disrepute, and that if an explanation had been
made to the Archbishop of the state of the church, he would
have been bound by his duty to have the repairs made. This was
the opinion of an Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Dawson). It had
been published in the Newspapers, and he (Dr. Lushington) sea
surprised that the promoters of the Bill should have persisted in
bringing it forwent. Ile should therefore move the second reading
this day six months.
Mr. Alderman W()OD said, that he had in his hand the reso-
lutions of the Mayor and Corporation of Londonderry, explaining
the feelings and wishes of that corporation with respect to the pre-
sent BilL lle would allude to an Hon. Member who held in per-
petuity a fishery at a rate of 1,2001. a year, for which 6,0001. had
been offered. He thought that the House would see that the Hill
ought not to be allowed to pale.
- - • -• • • •

- -
Mr. S. BOURNE disliked the precedent of establishing such a
Bill as the one before the House. He, the one, would not be a
party to any such Aet. He thought that prima forte the Dean
and Chapter would not be justified in parting with their revenues for
any such purpose.
Mr. LITTLETON thought It strange that the Cathdral should
be allowed to fall into ruin, and then that, with the most unblush-
ing effrootery, an application should be made to Parliament fir its
repairs. He never knew an instance in which such a demand was
more unjustified,
Sir J. NEWPORT said that the House should be extremely
cautious in granting repairs for any Cathedral, but particularly In
the present can, bemuse the COolies would be liable to coon'.
bete, without the power of havhcany control over the *Mebane-
'until. The Church must be degraded in the eyes of the nation
by coming before Parliament for such a
M. purpose.
Mr D.k WSON said that the Church alluded to was the only
Church in Deny where the Protestants could worship. They had
been obliged to apply to the Presbyterians for a loan of their
Chapel ; and unless Parliament interfered, a large body of mem-
bers of the Church of England would be without a place to worship
in. Ile thought that two things were necessary to be done in Ire-
land—to provide churches and Instruction. He hoped that the
sentiments of the lion Members opposite, would go forth to the
public, and have the edict of bringing the Dean and Chapter to a
right sense of their duty. He thought it necessary to consider how
the repairs should be made; for it was certainly a matter of import.
ante to put in proper condition the ancient edifice alluded to.
Mr. PLUN'KETT was glad to take the present opportunity of
rendering justice to the Bishop who pr sided over the diocese al.
luded to. He was sure that no individual, in Ireland or England,
acted with more propriety, in every sense of the word; the greater
part of his income was spent in charity, and be gave general satis-
faction to all parties.
Mr. HUME said, that he was anxious to do justice to the Bishop
of Derry, who, he had understood, had complained that he (Mr.
Hume) had cast some reflections on his character during the debate
of a former night. He knew that the Bishop had himself sub.
scribed LOOK towards the repairs of the cathedral, and the only
complaint was, that he had not placed it io proper hands. lie
thought that every thing connected with the church establishment
of Ireland required to be looted into.
Mr. R. 8311T11 hoped that a Committee would be appointed to
ascertain through whose delinquency the cathedral of Deny had
been allowed to fall to ruin, and to oblige such person to pay for its
repairs. He thought also, that the individual should be answerable
for the expense incurred by the necessity of borrowing the Presby.
terian chapel.
The notion war then withdrawn by consent.
Mr. Alderman 11.00 I) brought in a Bill to enable the city of
London to raise a sum of money, at four per cent., to pay off a
certain sum of money already borrowed at fire per cent.—Head a
first time. _ .

.....
Lord STANLIA moved the second rtatling of the 31anchester
and Salford Loan Bill.

111 r. lIIISKISsIIV said, he objected to the bringing in of Bills
to incorporate a body, aides, the panics had previously obtained
the leave of the Crown. This was the old parliamentary proceed-
ing, and the best. A thousand objections appeared to him to arise
frum this plan of incorporating companies. Ile believed, at the
present moment, there were forty such fills before the House.
Read a second time, and mdered to be committed...

emporaked such an evil would be avoided, and the credit of the
iVest India merchants would be saved.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS agreed with the Hon. Member (31r.
Wilson) that the West Indian interests were in a low situation;
but it would be ton much for Parliament to give its sanction to a
Bill, told& which persons would be induced to advance their
tummy, without otherwise knowing the security on which they gave
it. His object wan to free the slates, and if this Company °burned
the Bill that object Mould be defeated. On public grounds he
would therefore oppose the Bill. All that hod mooed for the last
few months in the West !Mies would clearly show the prejudices
which than prevailed, and thle House should not sanction their
extension. km these entsons he felt ft his duty to oppose the MIL!
Mr. 11'HITJUORE opposed the BM on public grounds ; and if,
after the protection already offered to the Wed India planters in
the price of sugar, this Bill were passed, the effect would he to Mile I
the price of sugar from :O to 100 per cent. and do away the chance
of the unhappy negro front ever obtaining even a limited freedom.
While the general object di' all was to throw open every brash of
trade, this Bill would go to narrow and resniet it. Under such Cfr•
eutustances, he must oppose the Bill. The history of Joint-stock
Companies was before the House, be need tiot reps &it ; and the !
result was, that the individuals connected with ft wake ruined, as
well as those who embarked their property in au:h esameno Adam
Smith said, that oat of fifty such Cotopanin, almost every
one of them had failed ; and the sanction of law of corpora.
tier. should not be thrown around a specutation like the meant--
bad in principle, and fatal in its result.- (fries of " geteatton !")
31r. A. ELLIS said, that he had no personal interest in this TOM•
sure, bite on public grounds it would have his best support. It the
Crown did not grant the charter of incorporation, then he Wished to
have this Bill followed up ; if otherwise, there would be no nem-
sity for it. In looking over the names of the perotins to compose
this body, he found the most respectable names—name% which gave
a atiouity to say measure which they might propose. Capital was
now so senty, that those who had it seemed me to know bow to
Wren it ; and it was no wander that they looked around w hereto lay
it out. Fur himself, he preferred the investiture of capital in this
country or Ireland, or the Colonies, than in foreign states (hear),
and therefore he wished to advance the West Indian interests,
which were suffering a pressure from which it was desirable they
should be relieved. He conceived that the effects of this Bill would
be to advance the West Indian interestoand prevent the interposition
of measures likely to shake the properties of the West India
plant Ors.
Mr. W. SMITH said, he considered that this Bill, which was
called a private Bill, was of more consequence than any public Bill
which had been before the Home during the present snoop. His
opinion was, that the Colonists were now going thrward with mea-
sures to their own ruin, and that this Bill would only involve a
greater number in the same ruin. The eoloniata might have local
knowledge, but their prejudices often blinded them to their own
interest. The object of trait Company would be to add to their
own profits, and forget the general interests of humanity. In nine
eases out of ten he believed the fact would he so. Another result
of this measure would be, a monopoly in the sale of sugar; and
if individuals had already tailed in carrying on that trade,
how could a eurporato body du better? In such a capacity
a surplus of sugar would not lower its price, but would tend
to increase it, as the Corporation, who had a large fund,
could keep it from the market, and thereby enhance its value.
The present Company had the power of raising the commodity;
they would hare four millions of merchandise, which, spreading
over the whole of the West Indies, would give then) an influence
and command which ought to be guarded against. This was a
private Bill, yet it was said to be for a public benefit. If it were a
ease that might be considered as conferring a public benefit, then
ought his might
Ministers propose the incorporation of the
tategtg, and accompany it with a grant front the Crown. He
the Bill was of too great importance to be adopted hastily,
and was of opinion that it was introduced at too late a period to re-
ceive the sanction of the House during the present Seamon.
Mr. HUSKISSON, in rising to reply to the objections of the
Hon. Member (Mr. W. Smith) who so much dreaded precipitancy,
was of opinion that he had totally mistaken the nature of the Society,
and the objects of its formation. He had argued the present Bill
as if the Company sought a monopoly in the West India trade, as
if the/ aimed to secure to themselves the management and direction
of H, eat India estates, and to raise the price ofsugar by the influx
of four millions of capital into the market. Now lie (Mr. II.)
did not understand that any one of these objects were comprised
within the scope and intention of the new company. It was un.
dentood, that so far from seeking a monopoly of trade, they were
not to trade at all. The simple object of the Company's formation
sou to act in the capacity of an agency-house here to West India
estates, to receive consignments, to sell on commission, and in
other respects to discharge those agency duties which it was well
known several hoaxes in this country already executed. They did
not aim at any greater influence or privilege than any twelve persons
of large capital might fairly claim for themselves, and the otily dif-
ference between such a partnership and the pre ent Company, was
the greater extension of the numbers of which it consisted. Adam
Smith, Abbe Maury, and other political economists, had been
cited against the present Bill, but the opinions which were cited
against the formation of this company would be equally, and even
still more strongly, applicable against the formation of any joint
stock company whatever, taking the principles of free trade as the
criterion by which to judge. lie (Mr. uskisson) did not pledge
himself to support the Bill in the detail of all its clauses, but in
supporting that it be committed, he went no further than to say that
the principle of it ought at least to be entertained. And he would
here ask if there was nothing in the situation of the West India
property at present, that made it desirable that such a Company
should be established as the present, which would allied relief to the
proprietors of estates there. From the unproductiveness of the
estates there, and from various causes into which it was now un-
necessary to enter, proprietors of West India property could not
borrow money at a legal rate of interest. Would it not then be a
great relief to those proprietors, pressed to pay of the incumbranees
on their estates, to be able to obtain the assistance which the present
Company might hold out on fair and reasonable terms. These pro-
prietors tame last year—they came now, and besought Govern-
ment to interfere for their relief by the issue of Exchequer Bills
on the securit of their estates. Government could not advance
money on such security, but that was a reason why this House
should encourage a Company which might be available for the
relief of the distress of those proprietors, and the more cope.
dally as that distress had been in no small degree entailed
by the measures which had met the sanction of that House.
It was not stated in that ]louse, but from discussions elsewhere he
had learned, that it was maintained that the amelioration of the
slaves might be promoted through the medium of the distioss of th 6
proprietors. if the present Bill were likely to operate as an ob.l
stade to the amelioration of the slaves, then he would say—don't
let it pass. But he would ask, if this Bill aimed at giving assist-
ance and relief to the proprietors, whether would the slaves be beat.
taken care of and provided on an estate where the proprietor was'
free and unencumbered, or on one where the distress of the pro.
prietor aggravated the condition of the slaves, diminished the
power of bettering his situation, and compelled him to a forcible
sale of the slaves ? Besides' it should be borne in mind, that
whilst the proprietor Was depressed, he would be the less
enabled to coonterate with Government in the projected ins.
pmvement of the condition of the slave population. There was
already to be found in the country several compotes of less extent,
and perhaps not consisting of such a number of persons, but who
aimed at precisely the same objects, and who had embarked con-
siderable capital in furtherance of similar views. It was with a
view of advancing the gradual improvement of the slaves, with the
hope of an ultimate change. that he wialied to relieve the proprietnrs
from distress; for if distress continued and increased, it would
drive them to despair, and when driven to despair, little could be
expected from them, in aiding and uniting with the wishes of this
country in the moral and physical improvement he bad alluded to.
He thought the Bill ought at least to he entertained; at the same
time he would apprise the House, that when this question was first
mentioned to him, lie declared in this as in similar cases, that he
would not countenance oe sanction any monopoly or exclusive pri-
vilege to them. or any exeuiption stun the bankrupt Lws ; but
that he would si iiply.give them those advantages to which a large
body of tenons uniting, for laudable and useful purposes, were
usually entitled. Without pledging himself to any conduct he
might take in the future discussions of the clauses of the Bill, he
would merely confine himself to the general support of it in its
present .
Dr. LUbHINGTOS considered the present Bill as entitled to
the utmost attention, and at heist to justify a discussion of mo-
derate length. The House ought to be extremely cautious of the
authority which it vested in Corporate Bodies. He was the more
jealous on the present oceasiun, as the Right Hon. Gentleman did
not state the nature of the evils which it was expected this Company
would relieve and remedy. He did not inform the House whether
the prevalence of the distress was attributable to permanent or tem-
porary causes. This important point of coasidenitton the Right
lion. Gentleman passed over altogether in silence. lie would ask if,
the colonies had not been for a lung time past a 1 oing coecern to all
) crams engaged in them? Six per cent- was the rate of interest at
v hi it it was said money could be had on the security of West Italia
property ; but taking into consideration the profit• of the consignment'
on the cargo, and other items, it generally amounted more nearly
to Ito per cent. to the borrower. This was the difference between
the rest anti nominal interest paid on the security of West India
property. The Right Honouruble Gentleman had spoken of inse.
curity, bat did not explain what he meant by that term. He
(l)r. Lushington o was of opinion that the want of confidence in
such security, mime from the quantity of rigs grown in the West
Indies, the sole of which did not return a profit adequate to re-
payment. On the present system, therefore, he did not see what
greet advantages could arise from such a company as the present.
Duller these circumstances, what would be the consequences of in.
corporation ? The consequence woOld be, the raising of the price
of sugar by the influence of their capital. By the loans which
they woule make, and the inability of the proprietors to clear them
off, this company might finally become the very holders of the
estates; and this would surely be not desirable, as they could not
manage them on the same economical :num as the present resident
owners of them. Another objection to this bill was, the impediment
it placed in the way of manumission. For instance, what director
would undertake to mar.untit a slave when he was acting at the
trustee of a public company ? How could he undertake to reward
hint for his labour. when be could not gise him that greatest of all
rewards foe it—his freedom ? But this a landholder could do, and
was k:.vW:ltver in many instances, at hie death, to besitteStb tilt If