The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1819-05-04 00:00:00

"*. .

lie most have an establishment of his own. Tina
iv not the r,t,e. We, the Protestantr. wished to
give hiivan establivtintent, but the Catholics reftised
the boon. The Protestant says. It is better your
clergyman should !procure his livelihood under the
law'—but the Catholic rejoins —• No, I am afraid
that he will soon. its tlint case. get his living under
the Minister.' Instead of raisin` their clergy to an
a•cetsdanry. they were desirous of leaving them
dependant on the people. It is not, therefore, cnr-
iect to say, that the views of the Catholic laity,
with respect to their clergy, are of an ambitious na-
ture, when they are 511X1004 that they chould still
he dependant on their bounty. But the Catho-
Isc Claims do not originate in the unreasonable-
ness of the Catholic body ; they grew origi-
nally ont of the laws winch were enacted against
them, and they increased as a reformation of those
laas took place. On the breaking out of the
French Revolution, when the power of the Ca-
tholic church was put down—whets France ceased
to be the'cliampion of Popery—a repeal of several
of those obnoxious laws took place—and, when you
had not in England a political conformity, it was
not extraordinary that the policy and propriety
of such it measure should suggest itself. It
is not, I say, the unreasonableness of the Ca-
tholics that called for fresh concessions—but the

evident ceasing of those causes which occasioned
the enacting of the pains and penalties of which
they complained. But, instead of recollecting
that those causes belonged to a particidar time, you
have affixed them as propositions inseparable fr.
the Roman Catholic hody.—(l/ear, hear.)-1.
have said that rebellion is a netessary adjunct of
the real presence, and that perfidy and a disregard
of oaths, are inseparable from extreme unction.
--(//ear, hear, fsear.)—lt i. asserted, that the
, Revolution of t6B roiled this question, mid that
the principles then laid down cannot be departed
from. Sir, the Revolution was a human arrange-
mem, subject to the variation of human affairs.—
The Revolution was a grand achievement—a itoltle
victory. It was the victory of a greet people over a
had Prince—it was the victory of civil and religious
liberty over tyranny and arbitrary power. When the
Roman Catholics supported that tyranny, they had
uo claim on the Constitution—hut, when they took
up Hod maintained the principles of liberty, from
that moment tlwy had a claim on the Legislature.
It has been argued, that the declaration which ex.
eluded them was flood; that it was intended as a
final settlement of the Constitution. It is just the
reverse. The declaration was stated not to have
been final, both by the House of Lords and the
House of Commons. The House of Lori:s, at the
time of the Scotch Union, considered the question.
They debated, whether the declaration was a fluid
and fundamental regulation or not ? and they de-
termined that it was not to he so received. The Act
of Union stated explicitly that the declaration was not
final, but that it was provisional. The Act of the
Irish Union set forth, that the declaration was nut
final, but provisional. It does more, because it
says that the declaration was not merely provisional.
but conventional. Iu order to induce the Roman
Catholics to give an ear to the proposition, and t
reconcile them to it, the Parliament declared that
the exclusion was not final. So that it appears front
this, that the decimation was not only
but conventional. It was not all eternal covenant
of Protestantism against Catholicity, since the au-
thorities I have referred to do away the idea that
finality of exclusion was intended. Therefore, when
we propose to do away this declaration, we do no
more than we have a tight to pert* . In
the case of Scotland, there is al: Act of Parliament.
and, I believe, many Gentlemen are acquaita-
eat with it, which declares that oo fi twiny was in.
traded—that the rigour of the clause was directed
not against the Catholics getter/11y, but against
those who submitted to the temporal power
of the Pope. Instead of bring considered as
final declaration, it is there treated as a pragma-
tical declaration, and therefore liable to he iepealed.
The House of Lords was not in its constitution ex-
clusively Protestant—what I mean to say is, that the
English Peerage is not exclusively Protestant.—
Heer.)—eOur Constitution is not exclusively Pro-
testant. By your parliamentary regulations you
confide in Roman Catholics—they can vote here if
they please; the oath they take entitles them to
the privilege of voting ; but that oath does not con-
fer conformity, and until they conform according
to the express conditions of your formula, they
do not cease to be Catholics.—(Hear, hear.)—
What is then your weapon? I mean to ask, what
is the weapon which you wield ugainst the body
of your fellow-subjects who profess the Catholic
religion ? You say their moral obligations are not
to he relied upon in the same sense that the lest of
his Majesty's subjects are. How dries this stand ?
You appeal to the battle of the Boyne, and he to
the Gospel. His appeal won't do, hacked as it is
by an exposition of his tenets, and a manifestation
of his acts ; his attain-tents must be construed ac-
cording .o your views—that is, your assertions
must be declaratory of his tentiments, and our
toasts the corrective of his bad principles.—(Hear,
hear.)—You meet his asseverations by lipid) Mg
to hint the terms of tome old, perhaps obsolete
oath, some oath which has no precise meaning, or
if it have any, it is a meiniiiig which, if taken in
it. strong settee. goes not alone to excommunicate
the Catholic from the privileges which lie seeks..
hut from the jade of civil society ; so that if you
take the terms of this oath according to the expo-
sition that souse have given them. you not only ex-
clude the Catholics from society to give effect to
your own proscription, but you by your own ac-
knowledged sets, exclude front that society some
of the first of its inepiberr. The case of Infiniti
presented a singular anomaly in the legislative
tystein of Great Britain. That the Irish were dis-
satisfied, was, because they were excluded from
the benefits of the Constitution. For what were
they excluded ? Wins it on 'recount of auricular
confession? Surely not, that ground was quite
uu-
trnable iii the present ante of the. world. Were
the Catholics not loyal, because tIIC Constitutimi put
a fiat upon their energies? Yes they were: they
displayed loyalty iiiitwidnitatiding their exclusion;
they displayed fidelity unshaken by their proscrip-
tions. Why Own attribute the evil that you speak
of to the opiiiiiiiis of the Catholics ?—why not
rather attribute it to the system e Inch excluded
them ?--why, in fact, acquit pains sod penalties,
and convict the sultrreis, who felt us human nature
ever mast fiel under the mortification of exc!it-

‘. • 4 I

Mou?-111ear, hear)—This is no perml tri thz
march of the human mind to touch upon topiei
arising out of this subject in the wanner in which
they were wont to be touched. - We have now
firmly established our own religioareweisairedisetan.
blished that of our ancestor•. • Bet ere we prepared
to say we exclude the Catholics noire se it was said
we did their predecessors. because of their idol..
try, their want of faith, their perfidy, their 41....
petulance ? 'Phis cannot be two ;we do not exclude
them upon any such account. Oil the eo,th„,t,
we enable them to pari;ciiite in our boydetok—tp

enter the army. which ,o 1 great • brawl ,;
our patconsge, which IN mit of the main proof,'
our Protestant ascendancr. The Protestants hsv

the Catholics are singularly courteous. They are io
common life civil and tolerant; but yet many at
them were disinclined to grant those privileges, for
the refusal of which they could assign no adequsis
cause. The Corporation of Dublin had discussed
this question, and Alderman M'Kenney had set an
example of liberality, in the attachment which he
manifested to the cause of civil and religious liberty,
and the judicious appeal which he made to the best
principles of the Constitution. The Goverum-iit of
Ireland walnut also back ward in proceeding with this
good work. Their Chief Secretary (Mr. C. Grant)
—and long may lie remain in that office
motel thn good feelitig—the Comirrinder in (b 4

in Ireland, who a1..0 mandseqed the digpoaitiutt of

humane and intelligent man, coorurred in tlet
opinion of the Chit-f Secret iry. There ere,
know, individual., smiled to respect, who hold
different opitionis; hot soil the great loess of the
ititilligent order Yf •ociety 1/1, with time repeal of
those laws—the common sense and continuo esprit-
eiice of maul:toil alike deco old that repeal.—
Will you then, in this state of thirars, impose ret
the State, and in this period of advanced iiitelli-
genre, the heavy task of declaring, that the hard
Law* are eternal, that is, hind they pruclants as
eternal incapacity upon ogle class of his Majesty 'a
subjects, and an denial capacity upon the other
to rnfurce that iucapacity ? Fur what is this de.
sautictation to be upheld ? What is the Slate to
gain by this perpetual interdict? Does it exclude
a part of its subjects to establish a good principle,
to punish for a bad one, or to assert that which 14
just? When were the Catholics excluded ? Nett
at the Reformation—no, nor indeed at the Re-
volution. They were excluded in IGOi. when
the Constitution was altogether unhinged. when
the trade of the country was annihilated, and its
policy unsettled. The State has the power of en-
franchising as well as disfraoehising. Nu enlight-
ened man will build the character of his country
upon the exercise of the latter, while so moth
of the former mamas to be effected. This
!loose felt the impro.triety of these Penal Lim,
—it four years ago ti al:minted a Committee to
prepare a Bill for their -epeal. On that Commit-
tee sat the most distingui'hed Members of the then
Parliantent-4hey had the distinguished aid of the
Noble Lord opposite (Lord Castlereagh)—they had
the able assistance of the Right HonourableGeti-
tient:in near lima (Mr. Cani.ing)—they had the
great and strenuous aid of that enlightened
unto, Sir Samuel Romilly, who was now unhap-
pily no more, no longer able to assist in their
discussions. It is melancholy to contemplate
the list of the dead I :Mr. Potisoilby woo no
longer among them to assert, on this question.
the triumph of truth, reason, and justice, aver error,
prejudice, and exclusion.—( Ilear.)—The livitig
authorities are, however, great, they are pretetit,
amid imanswerable. My Right Ilan. Erwin's heir
me (Sir J. Newport and Mr. Plunkett) Cali •13. k
of the labours of that Committee. Th, N-ble
Lord opposite (Lord Castrrengli) can state %,;at
they were ; that excelleut maim who was the
lihrda-
tur of Africa, and who could be no other than the
friend of freedom in Europe (Mr. IVilbertiace),
also participated in those !Omura, and concurred nn
recommending that Bill which was afterwards kw.
Why appeal to the 1141114 s of individuals to ,hew
the necessity of uttering these laws? The mimes
of individuals are in this sense ji fly prized, hit:
the names of nations come with more weight—then:
are, for instance, Germany, Austria, France, and the
Netherlands, who have set you the example ill the
acts of their respective rulers. There was also the
King of Portugal, I shall say nothing against hum.
But all these have set the example of overthrowing
what you call idolatry. What were your acts ?
You did not follow such an example—tio. you sub-
sidized the Idolater, you did it both in Europe and
in America—you cared not for his creed when via
wanted his services, and then you turned r0u,..1
upon yottr own subjects and disqualified them for
tenets which you knew did hot interpose beterea
their consciences and their civil duties, and tenets
which formed no bar to your sense of the fidelity of
engagements contracted with you by other Po,tr•,
of whose attachment you could nut have Ott
same reason to be assured.—(Hear, hear.)—
There are two subsisting Acta which disqualit
our Catholic fellow-subjects—the Declaranaii, and
the Oath of Supremacy. Of the first we ought
nose to he ashamed, in its present form ; of the
seemal we ought also pause. after the opinions which
have been pronounced. To charge roes with own-
ing a supremacy, which they abjure in a civil shape,
is very ungracious—to force upon men opinions
which they declare they do not hold, is very illiberal.
Such is It with the Catholics—to declare to them.
that the spiritual power of the church is capable sit
dissolving their civil allegiance, is neither mete
nor less than to abjure alt human power, for et 14
to deny the influence of the ties which operate
upon the mind in every state. The Deciarattase
is that which the Protestant ought to repeal, the
Oath of Supremacy is that which th" Cdtbol":
ought to take.—( /fear, hear„)—But it is said, Now
cannot satisfy the Cat hulk, and that he will nut,
nor cannot, obey the injunction,: a hich your civil
compacts require. You at env moment say, he Is
guided by an excess of religions baling, mod to the
'text by an absence of all moral . What
standard, then, do you mean to rear for hia allegi-
ance ? If the Gospel won't do, why
is the voice a
a punt of the nation to be decisive ? Why s.iy to
a past of our fellow-aubjects. • I kit you
will praise God, but 1 know at the semi time Y".l
will damn one another?' I ant aware that the lass
Bill was not popular in Ireland ; I knots au outcry
was raised against it, lieceuse this place was es-
I too, nod the other place exempt. One potty
thought it conferred too touch—au other that it reit-
, tiered nugatory what it prolesstd to give, bi sccow-

• it with what was called the Vlio. When
en
Wo
wss •
the question to he settled ? Did Nitta-
th
i,ni loom to wart until both these parties ogreeil-
-„„til it could satisfy both. wait it to retrain from
dog proice to either 2---(Hear.)—Tiw COMlnnes
to of the land went cats a principle of equal jets-
tin the litiolitime parties; why not adopt the
sae prineiple its a cue like this, which iiivolved the
sons of religion?—why riot deal with it with en even
oe—why punish as well IMI Male and condemn
conecoostious feelings of those who differ froin
opoll 10011119 of faith ?—.why not try to view nor
ttitil obligations in the effect of brotherhood ?
__any try the wisdom of God by the presumption
of mad This was not a question of empire, but of
,otict.—it was oue where the otrougeo o
h uf
ma human
*ere at issue. and the greatest of n in-
frebottr
ter's at stake. It ought to approach men's moots
in the true spirit of charity, liberality, and jos..
tie,. May its advance be streugthened, for whatever
is religiously good must be politically side
The
Woe*" NS well as the inconsistenry of your
present stem has long been exposed—it is bad in
glaringly inconoistent iii practice. You
in.
principle,
eoufe•r part of a right, where, if the parties are sub-
.l.o to the immoral influence you ascribe to limn,
timi right must be fatally exerci agsinst you.
yor confer the right spun a class w seh d o may, in sonic
&vet, he said to omit both bread and liberty. and
run withhold it from the superior order of that i
chef, whose choiseter Moods justly high in the
re.—(Hear.)—An argument used against the
Coholic Claims. and a curious one it is, is, that
thew as a body do not want liberty—that the Peti-
tioners are led on by a few who care not fur their
interests. This is As ludicrous as it was false. One
of the petitions presented to this blouse contained
the signatures of two English families who were
lineally descended from those who had signed Magna
Charts. They are Roman Catholics, their Petition is
on your table, and what is its prayer ? It is that they
may have the privilege of sharing that liberty which
their ancestors, at the wrote of their blood, pro-
cored for their cOuntsl.—( Hear, hear. )—Cal, such
a system be good which excludes the descendants
of such men—descendants, too, who are auk's-
peached sod unimpeachable in their career in Gtr ?
This system of. eaclusion was palpably bed, its
t tooling operation is to alienate those whom it is our
dozy to cuociliate—a law proscribing the Irish, the
Scotch, or the English, would be asausfestly airiest,
but not more so them this law, which made partial
selections from the subjects of each, for the par•
pose of deuyitig them their political rights. The
question of eiclusiou in this empire is we of pros
portion—that is, as to the 'towhee you
tube
to
exclude, compared with the populatioa of the em-
pire. The Catholics of Great Britain form, at
least, 1-sth of the whole population of this em-
pire—they have thew's the most perfect devotion to
the civil obligations they have contracted among
us—they have given the moat unequivocal proofs of
their steadfast loyalty. Good policy would dictate,
that such a class should be embodied with the
State, not separated and excluded from it.—
( Hear.)—lu vain is it, that you proclaim their ad-
mission to the Coustitution nitrate—in train is 0,01,1 t
your owu train of reasoning drives you to the couelti-
lon, tour the Catholic does not believe in your God;
or :are for your God. I soy if the steadfastness of
your religion have weight with you by granting throe
claims you strengthen your church, you support,
you concentrate the church of Ireland. Will you
then say that the security of the church of lid old
is incompatible with the privileges of the people—
if you do, you say that the church end the Gospel
differ—so that you place the Gospel on one side, and
contrast it on the other with the interests of the peo-
ple. The church is not placed on so flimsy a fouls-
datimp--if it was, it could not, it ought not to star d.
The church is in no such danger—it is supported as
it ought by the unity of the people—on that unity
it must depend for its support, for its proper influ-
ence, upon the community. The words of the
canonical oath have been often quoted, and where
they have been said to recommend persecution,
while, in fact, they merely recommend fair argu-
ment. The Roman Catholics had ceased to exercise
the persecuting spirit moods:A to them, and the
Protestants had, singular to toy, taken it up, or
else why perpetuate laws of this kind ? Forty yews
have now elapsed since this question was first agi-
tated in Parliament. In succession many parts of
the Penal Code, which cruelly oppressed the
Roman Catholics, were removed. They were felt
to be wrong—they were felt to be absurd and
cruel. The whole question is now reduced to the
naked principle of the right of the State to com-
pel a man to abjure his religion.—( Hear, hear.)—
Wlll any man say that this principle ought now to
be tolerated? if on man, as I think, can minions'
it, why is this system to be any longer endured ?
I Hear, hear.)—Another argument against the
Catholics is, that if you confer privileges you give
power—so you do. Why oot give power to that
large class of your fellow-subjects, who have shared
your dangers, and participated in your burdens ?
But do you confer a power which gives this class
of your fellow-subjects any unequal influence ?
Those who assert it does, must go the length of sav-
ing that the proportion of Protestants, that is nearly
live-sixths of the population. are feeble and • ;itle-
quote to the maintenance of their own wino, • t o
the preservation of their own rights. Is that possible ?
—who has the hardihood to assert it ? 'fbe Crown of
this realm is Protestant—the chief officers of the
State, its whole patronage, are Protestant. Of the re-
preseidati vett of the people, 500 and upwards must be
selected from yourselves ; they must be elected by
Protestants or your own country ; they must imbibe
the feelings of their constituespi; they must feel that
community of interest whictiSannot be alisken by
speculative threats, or by the possible opposition of
any weight which it would be in the power if even
in the will of Catholics to bring against than.
How can a Catholic ascendancy supersede a Pro-
testant ascendancy its this country ? Such a change
has indeed been °minister', but who has ever at-
tempted to prove it ?--( Ilear.)—lf Catholic pros
peaty has unproved iti Ireland, and aided the con•
tribatione of the prop!o to the State, it is because
your free trade, your galling commercial restric-
tions were obliged to give way to the spirit of the
times—the Catholic, therefore, improved, but yet
his disqualification was continued. An attempt was
made to repeal a part of this illiberal ordeal, by an
Administration of which a Noble Earl (Earl Grey)
funned a distinguished part—for this attempt that
Administration, its 11397, were obliged to reins

quieli dire. The cry or the church is in deiraer oppose the motion, and withhold liisassent form the
lido inquiry on lire
was successfully sounded; hut, orange to sae, the propnation. at 'least fur giiiiiic
very same Hal Was brought tie two tears ago by a I stale ref the remil Laws. It Isairl been truly stated by
Noble Lord (Lord Melville) a Member ref the pre. i the Right Hon. Gentleman opeostie (Mr. Grattaii),
seed Admiiiisirinem. It was carried through the . mod by • late Right lion. Doctor (we sateseree Dr.
House without a comment—it was read a fire• and a j Duigeneir), who used to lead the debate satinet the
mecum' tune—it was committed, reported,aail read • Catholics, that " the Legi-lature slid not exclude
third time mid paned. without a single diseetitient. Catholics, thee excluded themselves by refoong to
It was carried to the House of Lords. N I cry of takeabe uuths." He should now apply himself to
church in danger then—the Mitres nodded Deena. examine the law at resent in force on the subject,
moos approbetimi—(Hear)--the Royal Assent was and lie assured the House that in are derma he
given, mud the Bull was declared a law. The should waste as little of their time us ;towable.—
spires of the towers of your Universities. the spires i (Heir, hear.)—.But when it was cosisidered that
of your Hennes. reverberated nu mournful peel on a there were about ISO Acts, some of them repealed
the oacesion. The Clergy end the State met the in the whole, some in part, some otrangely inwli.
measure with quiescent approlnition, and to far fled and altered. 'some inconsistent with one ate.
justice was at length done to the naval and military other ; one requinng an oath of supremacy, one
officers who elled their blood in the service of the other of allegiance ; one Nit oath of abjuration, and
country. So then those great bodies (the envy uml another or tninsnbabantiation (he should correct
tinny) are thrown open to Catholics, in them they himself, and tray when there were two Acts Lying
have effective power. Where then are you to drawl down the oath of transubstaidietion in two wave,
the line of demarcation ?—/Hear, hear, hear.)-- whale it was matter of doubt iii many cases which
Are you to give to the forces by sea mill land what l of them was to be taken); when, he repeated it. the
you dell to civil life. and do you call this constitu. laws themselves were involved iii so much. confusion
Bone! ?—(heir.)--1 have heard some of the Peti• end perplexity, he hoped the Ilieuee would pardon
none read which oppose the Chant% 4 the Catholics. him if he were not so clear as lie should wish. -
I never heard the diecuesions to which some of them ( Hear )—lii proceeding to describe what the Pre-
gave rise, mud to which I never contributed without sent state ref the law was, he should discard all
pain. I dislike the disposition to tell the Catlin. the trash of legislation, us it might hr called, which
lie, vii muse remain for ever separated front the had I:l...crated the accession of the House of Ila-
Stare; your with; are qualified, your allegiance is linter, brealler at that era it might be teed we
inseenre. The exptession of this opinion was gene• had taken a new lease of the Conatitutien. The
rally accompanied by an apparent air of great dew). Act I Gyn. I. enacted that all pereosis who tiii.
titre, a Clinstten-like forbearance. I dislike this 4 dettook any suffice civil or military, [should take iiii
species of candour ; it always strikes me as a sort of 1 oath of ellegiance to his Nlajesty—elejurstion of
contumelious humility that *corns the providerice i the Pretraider—the King's mutereinacy—and sub-
they pretend to solicit.—Meoe.)-15 England to I scribe a declandion alpinist traneubetatetiation ; end
continue this disqualification of one-fifth of her it dealt in this way with such persons, it said that
people. to give the rem tinder the monopoly of their all who served the Crown in any public capacity,
God ? The people of the Continent, in their ate. should take the oaths and eke
the declaratioir iii
strata &mai ..... chew snore liberality. A common ally of the King's Courts at 11'estmitister, or at the
sense of danger led to a reciprocal feeling of librra. Quarter Seesions, *dim. three montlie; anud not
lily among the Powers who were in danger. France before entering on office, or without those quail-
contributed her share, Austria and Prussia did ficatione Iwing tootle a condition precedent, which
the coot.. The iron authority of Russia was putter-
ed to decline. We all remember what. these na. laws advanced assn hisownity aid
liberality. 'Die
bons were the acenes of bloodshed and slaughter— time was. by tibeequent Act, eittentled to six
we al! nine ttt i t ter when France carried her sway to months, and no injury to Pronatatits or the Beta-
the waters edge of the Baltic—we all remember, blielied Church had ever been found to accrue front
that when bran behind the Week and portentous the stew indulgence—nisei at length the 611, Geo. I.
cloud which then overshadowed Europe, the spirit the first of these Acts, called the "Indetanita Acts,"
of liberty rose and interposed its spell to the power was pasterd ; which, reciting all the Acts relating tu
of Fiance. that spirit which England hid nurtured, Prowmatit laissenteni. end all those enacted or
had swept away what it opposed by sea and hind. the Roman Catholics, indemnified all person% hold-
Your courage, your vigour, your humanity, fostered lug (Acre, who had not complied with the requisi-
it, and the cloud which overhung Europe burst firm* before described, provided they (peddled
under its action. Suppose after this great consum. themselves before the eatli of aleitar next eneniug;
motion of your efforts, after this divine interposi- and forme this Act had petaled, do rung a period of
lion iu your cause, some spirit should arise and near 100 years, an minuet Act of Indemnity has
wedeln' to you, that the Allies of heaven were a been passing its Parliament without opposition,
pack of idolater*, what would you say to the inspire discussion, or observation, which virtually, sou-
retiou of the message and the justice of the dead(- ally, and effectually, repealed all the pains and
nation ?—(fleur.)—lt was the principle of tolera. penalties before provided apnoea persone of the
lion and universal freedom' that was inscribed upon Roman Cstholic persurtsionSure li.—tlieeue, ar, from
your thinners, which crowned them with success; the Ministerial Beaches.)— Muratas what
it was that principle which nerved your arm, and lie laid mum appear novel to a great number of
cemented your alliance. Where then is the result Members, but he believed it did not to many
of your triumph to i.e found, if not in the others; he recollected Living represented this view
exercise of the genemerty and justice of your of the subject before to various Gentlemen who
principle*? When your predecessors, the Plait- heard nun.
To confirm hie opinion on the sub-
tageoets, conquered. they confirmed the li- jrct, he should state that Mr. Fox, in the find
beetle% of the termite river whom they ob. speech lie made on the question in Podia-
tamed rule ; when their successor% the Tudors, sent, had, with the luminous brevity, and (elect-
conquered, they gate equal laws and equal liberties touts abundance which characterised his speak-
to their people. You have now compiered, and lug, said that the points of difference between Pro.
will you be less just or less getierour to yourselves legends and Catholics recognised by law were, first,
that, your ancesture were to their enenitee ? A flew as to civil and military Acme—and secondly, as to
glory remained to be al -d over the House of !him- the enjoyment of seats in Parliament. He said
ter—the glory of emancipeting your fellow-sub- that all offices io the army end navy were open to
jeets.—(llear, Geer.)—'Then you eats look in the Boman Catholics except those of Admiral and
tact the Meioses i ets and the "Tudors—thee you General ; and he hail with great pleasantry imagined
can look in the face the best and proudest of your two Conitniesioners of the Navy sitting together at
encestors."—(lleur, hear, hear.)—The Right Huts. I the Board. and diecuesiiig not to
fhe portress,ropriety of
points
seed-
G. ntleman concluded by movnig— ing out a fleet or blockeitlitig but
That this House do resolve itself auto a Committee of the oil divinity.—/A laugh.)—But would it be he.
whole House, to consider the state of the laws artortling tweed that these Wight officers bad not for the space
his Majessy's Subjects professing the Roman "Is". R. 11" of a hundred years taken the qualification oaths ;
gum, so far as the same require quatificat ttttt s for the enjoy.
and that diet efore sourer Catholics were not by
meat of civil offices, and slue exercise of civil (onetime,
wish a view to determine *lather, Bud how far the mine the Henna administratiou of the laws excluded from
may he repeated, such offices. lie trusted that when a eau nf, he might
After au iiiterval of a few minutes— say, the miraculous rovers of Mr. Fox's mind had
Mr. Cgoitee rose to accord the motion. Ile been, ache had already *aid, mistaken respecting the
said he certainly owed seine apology to the (louse state of the Venal Law, the 110.35 e would hear with
for offering himself so very early to their attention him in endeavouring to represent how the law really
on so very important a queetime He trusted, .tooa wi practice.—(Hear.)—But it might he edit!,
however, that some degree of excuse would he that the law of indemnity was only occasional
found in the matter he had to eribmit. It and temporary—of co permanent force. and liable
had fallen to his lot, Hamm:, the other duties his to be suspeoded at the will of the Legislature.
situation imposed, to examine closely some oh' those In anseer, he could chew it to have been turned on
harsh and impolitic enactments ilireeteil against a uninterroptedly for eighty-five years, end hoe much
large class of the community, and in tracing them longer he did not know. The oath of supremacy
front their rugged sources, he hail been struck with was first established by Ileirry VIII. that bene-
°berrying how, whet was originally ii furious tore I hermit mointrehl. not for any purpisae to which it stow
rent, had gradually mild imperceptibly melted into 1 served—( lieur a—but merely to support a dogma
a mild, beneficent stream.— e Hear. a—The Right lof his own, It was material to keep this to mind,
Hon. Gentleman who preceded him had stated. in because the occasions of enacting these laws ought
leis own impressive mi r,, the strong setwatiou not to be forgotten in considering the fitness or iiii.
created in the House and the country by the Bill Mimes of cold:gluing them.—(Hear.)—Every burly
of 1817, for throwing; open the I ttttt ours and emu- believed at the present day that the King was the
laments of the army end navy to the Rumen Ca- I head of tht church ; and in Ida opinion, the oath of
tholies; he 114.1 truly slated that that Bill 11'en supremacy would have long ago game into oblivion,
lied passed the I iouse withrint a single diswentieet were it not for our own religions divieions, and, he
voice or observation, and yet but a few years be- feared, our jealousy against fellow-subjeftercts.
hearse
lore had lighted up a flame, and produced u ge- Act rendering it necessary, was, a
octal outcry through the countre. He was the repealed in the time of Mary. revived in tmit he of
person who had iniroiliaced 5t5...11 Stud not indeed Elizabeth, for which, perhaps, some excuse ght
pose in etwolute silence, because tee had felt it his he found in the circumstances of the country. In
duty to explaiis hie views un ii, and he at the sticcerdiug reigns, end the heretic tilers which
that time said he had brought it in, rather to followed them, it was obeyer thought of excluding
satay doubts and difficulties felt by others, than Catholics from
want.Pealiamen But at td
he period
W. rif
from any perceived neceserty operating on his OowetthePopish Plot, whi e ttttt ninate by Sir
mind. He thought, thee what was enacted by that Blackstone, a time of national nttiness, the Act of
Bull, with rerepect to officers in the army and 'easy. the 451 h Cluirles li. directingsed with that the decimationinten eigt, atuby
st
was virtually, and for all practical purposes, the transubatoottation, was pas
law of the laud before ; and he said time, that such obligieg the pereon making it to profess that he slid
was the law of the heel with respect to civil offices. believe there was not any real sacrifice of the body
Ile said, that, by the preseut law of the laud, a and blood of Christ in the Secrament of the
Roman Cothraic might he Lord Chatecellor of I Euchariet. That dui tint satisfy the zealous minds
England.—(A langh.)--fie owned, that what he of the (lay, for the 300, chadr, 11. was „mita'. the
declared prolothly appeared novel, marl likely to Act under which they met in the House, prem.:robing
excite the surprise of the House—but should not a new declaration against inowubstaistiatiosi, much
have ventured to make it, was there out the Act be- emerges thee the former—end in succeeding nines
fore referred to on the table ter support hie desertion. rewires were obliged to make either of these de.
That Act, it was true, recited only offices in the elaratione, acranding its the whim of the Le.
army and navy ; but he had already meted, that it i eielinure. On the acceesinit of woh:lio told Alary,
only declared respectiog them, what was the real these Acts wrre annulled, but shortly after-
state of the Isw in regard not only to Hose, lost %entre re-enectea for all persons holding civil
all other offices; and later relidlllg Out Act, he offices. It might he said it ear. not surprising
thought it unpossible soy 11. m. Friend of his could that, when a Ptetender to the throne was pursuing

Isis aims, not in France, bat on the alone* .r the
kingdom, the Legislattire should direct an oath In
be taken previous in the assumption of office. His
only answer was, that the Acta of William and
Mary were both re-enacted in Ist (:surge 1., that
they were made conciiirent, and on all occasions
directed to he taken together, who li was a pr, sty
strong proof of the 111).nrility of the hew Act.
The oath of ollegiancr Culilaiied in the Act of Ist
'William :nag Mary, ran i. these words-4, I will be
Enthral sand bear true allegance to their Majesties
King William and Qiierit Mary," without leav-
ing a blank fur the latter words to he filled
up as circumstances might require, and hr fan-
cied that the bare stating of it was sufficient
to ehrw it WWI 110 t now so force. The practice
of England fur the last hundred years could not
have fteest absurd and illegal. 11 the old quali-
fying Acts were still of hooding force, he (Mr.
Croke') was himself liable to all the pains and
penalties provided by them, fur lie had nut takeo
any oath to qualify himself for the office he filled.
If he was not liable, then hr should say that the Act
of George I. gave a new lease of the Constitution,
and th Attie perennial Indemnity Act (he might call
it perennial, for it flowered every year) put every
one holding office in this situation—that it allowed
them six months for consideration before taking the
oath ; and afterwards, in case of further non-com-
pliance, afforded them an exemption from all the
penalties. The laws he bad hitherto observed upon
were common to England and Ireland—he should
now consider those which related to the latter
country) only. The Act 33il of the King empow-
ered Romeo Catholics in that country to hold all
offices under the Crown, on taking a new oath of
supremacy, merely expressing a renunciation of the
authority oft he Pope in all civil and temporal affairs.
It excepted a dozen or two of office's, such as the
Lord Lientenaid, the Chief Secretary, the Com-
mander-in-Chief, and some others. It declared
that mew of the person* discharging these offices
should be Roman Catholics; and yet they all might
be so, for not one of these officers has taken the
oaths on going into his office. The present Chief
Secretary, his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Grant)
had not, mid indeed could not do so, for there was
tio specific oath applicable to the Chief Secretary-
ship in existence. The law devised a chemical test
for trying a mans faith. A Prom was first to be
caught—(A laugh)—end then the oath was to be
applied to him. The law said, that a Papist could
not hold such and such offices, and that every
person who neglected taking certain oaths was
a Papist. To this, however, it might he re-
plied, " Yes, but one Act gives the Papist
three months time for consideration ; another
six months, amid the Indemnity Act on the
table till March, 18-20." It might be objected
that the Chief Secretary took the Privy Counsel-
lor'r oath, which came to the same thing—Meer,
hear, from Mr. Peel. / —lt was a long tune, how-
ever, before his Right Hon. Friend, the late Chief
Secretary (Ilr. Peel), lied become one of the Privy
Council. There was no necessary connexion be.
tween the two situations; and at least there was no
necessity for the Commander to be a Privy Coun-
sellor and to take the Privy Counsellor's oath. He
inferred then that by according to the due operation
of law, both the places lie had mentioned might be
filled by Roman Catholics. He should go a step fur-
therand say,there was nothing to prevent the Chan-
cellor of Ireland being a Popish Chancellor,
because there was nothing in the Acts applying to
his office specifically ; certainly he was usually a
Privy Counsellor, hut lie was not aware that that
office was a place of trust, though lie was willing to
allow it was—for he was not row fighting the
battle on legal oiceties--his object in speaking so
early was, that his arguments might be fully dis-
cussed and canvassed.—(/leas, hear.)--tie might
be mistaken in the opinions lie advanced, but at least
he was honest, and did out meau to deceive others.
But there was no mention made of is Privy Coun-
sellor in any of the Acis, and when they had ape-
cially described the form of the oath to be taken by
officers in the army and navy, and the !Umbels of
that House, as well as the mode of making the
same, their silence with respect to a Member of the
Privy Council was an argument that it was not
meant that office should be the subject of an oath.
The Hots. Gentleman the,. proceeded to argue, that
a Roman Catholic barrister might accept the office
of a Judge in Ireland, as he might decline, after
taking the oath of office, subscribing the declara-
tion against transubstantiation, since by an old Act
he was allowed six months for so doing, and Use
annual Indemnity Act gave loin an indefinite pe-
riod. Mr. Croker then read the Oath of Supremacy,
lit William and Mary, chapter 1, section 7, and
observed, that it was very well at a time when
Popery, and every one professing the Popish
religion, was banished by law out of England.—
ln John Mitford's Act, and in an Act also
passed iu Ireland about the same period, a new
oath was prepared for the Papists, similar, in some
respects, to the former, hit differing also from it in
a material point. This new stilt declared, " That
io foreign Prince, Potentate, or Prelate, path or
ought to have any power, &c. in political or tempo-
ral matters." By this means, the Papists escaped
the trap, and the Protestants were caught; for
the moment that the Protestants admitted the
existence of Catholic priests within the realm, a
Catholic College, and took the oath that the Pope
had no power over ecclesiastical or spiritual mat-
ters, they laid a trap fur their own consciences.
His Hon. Friend, however, would now repeal that
oath ; be could uot admit • grant to the College
of Mayitooth while that oath pressed upon his con-
science, while he must be uware that ell the pro-
lessors within that College derived their ordi-
nation from the Pope. Rut of what avail was the
spiritual power of the Pope, so long as he was
posvessied of no temporal authority ? Hie Hon.
Friend had in a previous question brought in •
Bill winch contained a distinct recognition of
the spiritual authority of the Court of Rome.
That Bill did not become an Act; he, therefore,
could only speak from memory.--but lie believed
that it went to regulate the power of the Pope in
all matters of ordination, and that even letters were
to be received front Rome in some particular mari-
ner. But such a procerdiug was worse than layisig
is trap for the comicience. Having spoken of the
oath, lie should now make seine few observations on
the declaration; and on this point he would ask,
why a declaration which satialied the scrupulous con-
sciences of their ancestors would not be satisfactory

n ow, ana why a declarationoshich was convitlered Pura
ficient with regard to Counsellors mid perrons hold•
ing official situations, would not be deemed euffictent
sit points of minor interest ? If there were any nice
elates of persons against whom it might lee soppily. d
the law would guard with peculiar anxiety, lest
they might cherish Popery, that class compii,erf
the sworn *events of the King, the High Chemhet-
lain, and such other officers as were snore imme-
diately about tier Royal Person, mid aright be set: -
posed to exercise the highest influence on his Heed,
And to say the truth, Willits point the law was pee sty
carnal ; a declai anon therefore was required ien.ll
them ; but the poor sea officer, who lead in no teat'
the power of endangering the liberty or constitution
of his country, was compelled to take a volutisiiirms
declaration spinet transubstantiation, elide !brae
snore responsible personages bad only to sign the de-
claration in the 25th of Charles 11., which differed
from the other, not indeed so much as leght from
darkness, but fully as much as a light dry Creme a
dark day. —(Heer , bear.)—For the severity of these
Acts, and the jealousy with which they were en-
forced, he thought he could Per some reason.
Every one could see grounds for the te.etles of re-
premacy, in the jealousy which mime ten the French
marriage contracted by Charles I. Every our tic-
uainted with the history of that pee mil, retold see
cause fur the 25th of Charles 11. in the !'.,putt
plot, which
" liatangted fools, and pusiled all the wise,*
and which created so great a panic. Hr was not
surprised that this panic should be increased, when
the whole country saw the King going in state to
mass, and going there nut so much with a religious
feeling, as from a firm determination to undermines
the liberties of his people. It was not surprising
that in this panic the law should be clwingril,
and that oaths and declarations originally intended
for reflecting ar.d legislative missile, and winch re-
quired the exercise of great knowledge Ned costar,
try to understand. should he forced upon all classes
of the people. When Kiug %Valiant and Queen
Mary came in and assumed the gtorercineset, as lee
thought himself justified in say_ i tig, irec.lease it was
contrary to the estieblislied rules o succession cf
this kingdom, was it torprishig that they should
strive to strengthen their young and struggling
power, and take away the indolgeuce form. ily en-
joyed, that they would not allow per,,oils re go to
the Quarter Sessions before Tory Gosidleintei to
argue on the necessity of melting the declarations.
The fleets of Adantrelt Russell aced Nlientague had
beet, lost, the battle of La Hogue hod Hut been
ftought if such a proceeding were rdinitted, anti to
obviate the inconvenience that might be nriticiireted,
the law was perempiory that the oaths and decirra-
lions should be taken before any inclivideui rein-red
on Isis office. George I. succeeded to Aurae wit le.
out doubt or difficulty, with as much cave, ieeeeerd-
ing to the triumphant expression of his speech, as
a son succeeds his father. The first thing, the
ie-
fore, which the King with wise benevoleiece II d,
instead of facing all to take the oaths. and t:rn•:tte,
every power in the State to stand still Willi ti.i,ml
oaths were token, lee wisely enlarged the time for
taking the oaths. if the Act of William and Mary
were wise under the peculiar circumstances of that
period, the conduct of George was no less rational.
A rebellion soon after fulloard, which was &dewed.
The Pretender was then made the bugbear eta party,
but the King then greeted it new relaxation of are
mouths fur taking the oaths. George II succeeded
• without any doubt or difficulty, and the first act of
• his reign was founded on the acknowledgment, that
all those oaths and declarations were PO much non-
sense as applied to the state of effete at neat
moment. 'rile statesmen of that period felt
that irritation was as bad as injury, acid they
adopted the wise measure to allaying that irritation,
by placing a greater confidence in the people.
Then commenced the Indemnity Acts—they made
a trial, and it succeeded—they found, wealth•
standing the relaxation of the laws, they found that
all remained faithful. They passed the Indere-
nity Act, which, as Dr. Johnson eloquently said,
" Still'd the Butter of matey bosoms." In the
reign of George the Second, a violent rebellion
took place, which only served to prove tl.e radical
affection of the people of England to the Ptutest-
ant religion and the House of Hairovrr, acid to tier
Constitution of the country, as founded on these
first principles of its existence.—(dear, fieur.)—
The Act utlnderunity, however, was still continued,
and in the year 1743, it embraced the 30th of
Charles 11. and several tethers affectiteg the Roman
Catholics. This regular progress of legislatioo
shewed the rationale that was operating ors the
minds of the legislators, and the principles I y
which they were willing to construe thine Acts of
exclusiou.—(Hear, hear.)—Hating adverted to
those points, he should now direct the tette mom of
the House to the question of sitting in Perlimineier.
Gentlemen would be surprised to learn that the
only point by which Catholics were excluded from
the House of Commons, was to be lowed lie a
clause of the 30th of Charles 11. wherein. the
House was enabled to call up any Member,
and require of him to make the declarareni
cludagainst
ed tPhoispeArcyt., wThiliceh utivianelutalite ioned
ile
ymonii
it
ey
thatll e"xi.
eludes Catholics front Pal Itaineitt. and also ex ma-
juri eautefa, expressed several others affecting
tier
Roman Catholics; so that all perilous ierglec.itig
to take the oaths, and make the declarations re-
quired in these several Acts. were exemptet bleu
the penalties denounced 'lnuit such littilry..—
[The Learned Member lien: read the preamble
of the last Indemnity Act, to shew that the
Act expressly included those statutes.]
he continued, required no nice or moots ex,.-
mutation ; there wits 11001111 g recondite in the
matter ; " those who rues may read." This Act
was repealed, but re-enacted in a most extraordi-
nary insulter, for the statute which re-eseacied it
did so merely by referrnig to it as explanatory of
its provisions. It was thus raised Crum its tomb, acrd
the two Acts were united together like the living
and dead bodies when the tyrant of antiquity
delighted himself in uniting ; hot the absurdity el
the union contented 10 this, that it wee. the drat
body which was to speak and explains she entailiiree
of its living brother.—(Heor, hear /—He had not
been swore, until he had read this clever. that hair.
ing qualified himself by taking she °Atli. iwier at
the table, he might still he required by any Alember
to triplicate there qualificat ; and yet, but fur
thee clause, if it pleased the Legislature to desist
from the constant practice of years, if it wished to