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the present measure, because he considered Ilan attempt to lay the
foundation of Parliamentary reform. But evert if he was a friend
to that reform, he would oppose the measure, because he could not
be persuaded that such an attempt would produce the result which
Gentlemen opposite expected from it. The snidest of the Union
between England and Scotland. which had been alluded to, could
not be brought forward against Parliamentary reforms for no com-
pact could be binding when opposed to the same of the entire ono-
starchy. When the interests or England and Scotland were in col-
beton, the weaker party had a right to say "try the experiment en
yourselves first, before you try the effect of your speculations upon
us." If it was urged that ri.Member should not be elected fur
the Parliament of England on any other principles titan that which
were applicable to the election of Members for Scotland, the prin-
ciple applicable to England could nut prove an exception for Scot-
land, and if the some could be predicated of Scotland they would
have no representation. He thought that there should be a large
infusion of popular spirit in the Parliament of England ; it was
adapted to the feelings of the country, mid suited to the genius and
natute of its Constitution. A Parliament otherwise constituted
would rot be lit for this country, in which there were such various
and different interests to be represented, and which conse-
quently required • mixed representation: He would not
say that the representation of Scotland was not liable to
objection—he would not argue that it was en excellently good
and imperfect system—nor would he pledge himself that. if he
was casting anew the representation of that country, he should give
her the same all she now had; but theory and practice were different.
Ile might with to improve tile representation of that country, but
it would be difficult to reduce those views which were formed on
theoretical principles, to a plan which might effect what in his mind
might appear to be an improvement. As the representation of
Scotland was now nioulded, it produced a compound, in con.
junction with that of this country, which was salutary and
advantageous to both. Whatever might be the opinion of
some persons on this sujbect, he (Mr. Canning) certainly
thought there was no necessity for the measure propaeed ;
its adoption could not effect any real good, and though in theory
he might not altogether approve the system,yet that opinion should
not induce him to interfere with a system which worked well.
Though he did not defehd the Parliamentary system of ecotland,
he would not change on that account the present institutions ; no
injury had been sustained by Scotland in consequence of the pre-
sent system ; she kept pace with England in progressive improve.
mcnt. She was not exposed to any inconvenience which her more
wealthy partner in compact was not subjected to. When E^gland
advanced, Scotland followed. Witness the rapid progress which that
country had made in wealth and national prosperity, Since the
Union it was clearly observable; her improvement in every depart-
ment was apparent. He had heard allusions made to the disparage.
ment which some Members received in that House; whatever might
be the acute powers of vision enjoyed by other Gentlemen, he con.
fessed he never saw it. (A laugh.) He did not think Scotland
had to complain of the state of her representation ; it was at least
' national. /le did not know a single instance of an Englishman,
except one, becoming a representative for that country ; the ex-
ception was in the instance of Mr. Fox, who, when he was bmomislied
from Westminster, took refuge in the arms of Hirkwaid.
That instance occurred, but the exception proved the general rule
when the Southron invaded the representation of Scotland. He
knew no other instance of his limiting made a successful lodpnent.
,(A laugh.) The Scotch bad sufficient persons of their own country
to fill up the representation of their boroughs, and some to scare
for those of England. In Illustration, he would refer to the 11,m.
Member (Mr. Abercronobiel, who had brought forward the prcecnt
motion, who represented the borough of Caine; and if that gentle-
man bad acted as he (Mr. Canning) thought he ought to have
done, arguing on the principles and views of lion. Gentlemen op-
posite, who were favourable to the measure of Parliamentary Re-
form, he shauld have begun with that borough. It wield have
been a more logical mode of proceeding than that which he
adopted. He ass better acquainted with the state of that boooiXt
than he could be with that of Edinburgh. Had he to amend the
law, he would suggest, as an amendment, that the borough of
Caine should be substituted for the city of Edinburgh, in the
lion. Member's motion. Those who made the paucity of
electors a ground for supporting this measure, in his eptnion
acted unfairly. To those gentlemen he would say. look at home:
and then many Gentlemen whom he then saw would find that in
that particular they could not stand a comparison with Edinburgh,
if the number of their electors were token into account. If every
3lember was to take up his particular borough on those g-.s n it.
there would be no end, and parliamentary reform would follow.
Never but in this instance had such a reason been urged to en-
force the necessity of disfrarchising any corporation. His ob-
jection to she motion of the Hon. Member arose front his having
applied the principle of reform, which, as a general principle, was
good, to the particular case of the representation of Etlinturgli.
He did not argue that the principle of reform might not be
acted upon, to pmmote a great and general advantage. If such
a general plan was to be adopted, no individual borough could
be excepted. But a particular borough could rot be disfran-
chised, because the electors bore no proportion to the population.
If they acted on that principle they would do what they had
never done before. It the agitation of the question was merely
meant as a theme for declamation, or for the puropse of annual or
triennial display, he could not object to such ambition. Ile
thought the disfranchisement of Edinburgh could nut produce any
assignable advantage, and could not effect may good.
Mr. HOBHOUSE said. the argumenti adduced by the Eight
Hoo. Gentleman were very contradictory. He said that the re-
presentation should, in the general view, be popular, but in some
part it should not be popular. To say that a portion of the re-
presentation should not be popular was holding up a shameful
example. To bring forward the borough of Caine was nugatory,
there was no parallel between the two cases. Those lion. Gentle-
men who sat on his aide of the House for boroughs, would
have no objection to a reform in the representation. in •
the present instance • strong case was brought fortrard
when we say that the elective franchise of Edinburgh is confiued
to thirty-thee persons, we bring a strong case before the public
eye. By the operation of that state of things, we see • man re-
turned for that city having no common feelings with the important
population of that city; that was no representation ; they might
call it what they pleased, but it was in fact no representation. The
system was gross, absurd, and foolish. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man often told the House there was nothing wrong, that the system
worketi well, and he had said so that night. Could that sytem be
fairly said to work well which was opposed to the opinions and feel-
ings of the people ? The Lord Advocate had said that
the respectable portion of the inhabitants of Effriburgh were
opposed to the preseht measure . • he was not much acquainted
with Edinburgh, he had visited that, as many other Members,
doubtless, had done, but from what he had been stole to collect, he
would take won him to deny that fact. That might beleaeily ascer-
tained by any Member of the opposition, who should be at the
trouble of becoming acquainted with sentiment!' of the population.
Ile wouldsay that, without disparagement to the gentlemen also re-
presented that city, he forgot there was but one ,Member for that
place, which made the thing doubly absurd, his opposition
was directed against the system, and not against any indivi-
dual, which was one of the grossest that could be imaained.
It was impossible that such a systeni could be productive of any
beneliciel effects. Had it not been in existence, Scotland would
have derived several advantages of which that country had been
debarred. In the sentiment., which he had expressed he had alluded
to a power, but he did not mean thereby the power of the Crown.,
neither was he talking of the power of Parliament, but he was then
speaking of that power which the people alone can give--the para.
mount power of public opinion. He would only see, that if the
Hight Honourable Gentleman had not induced the (louse, by what
might be considered equivalent to a promise of reform in this re-
spect, some advocate of the people's rights might have been ex •
pecttd to stand forth, and bring forward maitre.' calculnted to
relieve them from a condition worse than a state of Egyptian bi mi.
age. (Hear, hear.) It would he impossible fur any person to
allege that the people uf Edinburgh were fairly represented. It was
not attempted to be said that they. considered as a body, consisting
of so many individuals, were duly represented. But it bad been
stated that, in connexion with the people of England, they were
fully represented. Edinburgh however, was not represented in
proportion to the people of England; but that was a di3irent sub.
ject from the one before the House. %Veit what truth or candour
could it be asserted, when 37 people of Edinburgh return a .lent.
bee of Parliament, that the city was fairly repreeented ? Such a
statement was incaneiereint with reason.

•Mr. ABERCRO3I IIY replied. He del not consider hemself
as liable to the censure thrown from the other side of the
House, on those who maintained the necessity of granting their
rights to the people. film had been one of those shrinking Mem-
bers alluded to, he might ',eve been nestling in a Scotch borough.
Ouch however was not the case, and it was because he did not come
under the description of the shrinking candidates that he was re-
turned as an English representative. He must confess that he felt
astonished to hear the Hon. Baronet, who was a Scotch Member,
using the language which had fallen from him. Whatever hap_
prised in England, whatever system of liberality might be intro-
duced for the public benefit, it was determined that the people of
Scotland must proceed according to the old rule; they must he
always miareprestmed. (Hear, bear.) They were not to parti-
cipate in any system of relief which might be considered expedient
and eligible for adoption in this country. For them no retirees was
intended. Could there he a greater proof of the feeling which was
entertained towards the Scotch people, than that which might be
deduced front the manner in which he had been taunted for brit-w-
-ing forward the present motion. It may be sail that there is some
probability of an alteration and improvement, in the introduction of
an improved representation for England and Ireland, but that
there was to be no such infusion for Scntlaud. No promise of the
kind had been given, and that wets a ground of complaint, for if the
principle was good in those instances, it would, he presumed, be
applicable to the case of Scotland. Ile could not perceive the va-
lidity of any of the objections which were urged against the ndop-
tion of his minion. From some observations made by the Right
lion. Gentleman (Mr. Secretary Canning) it might be inferred that
he thought at requisite to be consulted on the occasion of introducing
any such mode of relief as was contemplated in the motion before
the Ilouse. Such a comet, however, would hare been exceedingly
inconsietent, and the Right lion. Gentleman, who was a professed
anti.reformee, should have been necessarily the last man whose ad-
vice ought to be expected or asked for the regulation of a measure
adverse to the principles which he advocated. Another strange
ground of opposition, which had been relied upon, was stated to be
that the operation of the measure was proposed to be gradual and
progressive. That objection certainly seemed to come with a bad
grace from those who wished that no alteration whatever should
take place. lit fact, the petitioners had been told that they need
not expect redrew' of any kind, or at any time. They were not to
partake of the general remedy which was adopted towards other
parts of the United Kingdom, neither were they to be indulged
with any particular relief suited to their special case. It remained
fur the people of Scotlaud to pursue the course which may SC4:4I

best calculated to promote their object. He did not know whether
they intended to make common cause with the reforniers of Eng-
land, to obtain the prayer of their petition, but from the language
which had been uttered on the subject. and from the tone that was
adopted towards them during the night, they might easily learn
what. chance they had for a compliance with the purport of the
petition.
The House then divided, when there appeared '
Fur the motion, 97; Against it. 122 —lllajori:y, 25.
WES'IMINSTER ABBEY.

-.--- -.....--..—..
On our return to the gallery, ..—..
Dlr. HUME was addressing the House. He said that a tonsi-
doable expense had been incurred in forming a collection of pic-
tures to furnish a national gallery. lie wished to know whether,
according to the spirit which hail dictated that proceeding for the
public advantage, it might not be expected that some mode should
he adopted for laying open to the public view the monuments of
Westminster Abbey. lie hoped that the House, which acted AO
liberally in other instances, would relieve the people from the pay-
ment of those feat which were required for admission to sec the
public monuments. The fact, he believed to be, that there was a
sufficient endowment originally given for the support and main-
tenaere of those persons who now depended on the fees paid for ad-
mission; hut it appeared, from some documents which had been
placed in his hands, that the Dean and Chapter had been gradually
appropriating for several yens matitra of emolument which ought
to have gone to the benefit of Minor ilanons, who were entnnenaated
by the fees collected at the door. Now it had been alleged, on the
part of the Minor Cations, that, by the charter of Queen Eliza-
beth, certain sums had been appropriated fur their support, which
were subsequently diverted from that channel. It haul been also
stated to him, that In the year 11;97 a grant had been made to the
choir, with a condition annexed of keeping the monuments clean.
The information which lie wished to acquire by Isis motion wan,
whether the sums of meney had been given by the charter. as was
*Hegel; for the benefit of the Minor Canons; and lie also was de-
sirous to ascertain from what sourcTs the money an alleged to have
been left for the support of the Minor Canon. was derivable. Ile
conceived it to he very unfair that the Dean and Chapter should
year by year be depriving the proper owners of the several sums
alleged, and it was deisituble that the troth of that statement should
be sifted. It was also anid, that several sums of money had been
bequeathed by private individuals far the benefit of the Minor
Canons, in order that the public might be saved from the impo-
sition of the fees exacted for admission to the monuments. On
that point. ;also, he was anxious for information. He at first in.
tended to have asked for a Committee of imp ire, but he had been
induced to alter his intention by several ;Members whom he had
consulted, and who were of opinion due it would be a better cour.e
to procure copies of the documents to which he had alluded. lie
should therefore move for a copy of the charter passed in• the second
year of the reign of Qiiren Eliaalseth, conferring Westminster
Abbey on the Dean and Chapter.
The motion having been put,
Mr. Secretary YEEI. rosi and said, that from the readiness with
which lie acquiesced in the former motion of the Hon. Member,
respecting the fees received at ‘tiestminater Abbey and their appro-
priation. he did not expect that the lion. Gentleman would have
asked the House to consent to so ample a motion as he lied g;vet.
notice of for that night. The Hon. Gentleman had called for re-
turns of the lands and houses appropriated to the main•enance of
the :Minor Carbone and inferior officers of the church ; for a copy
of the grant of Mr/ to the Choir, on condition that receiving
the benefits of exhibition they should keep the monuments clean ;
an account of allowances and income received by the Minor Ca.
none, &c. : and in whose possession are the lands sad houses.
etc. from which the some are derived ; also, a lust of benefac-
done to the Choir.
Air. flU3lli denied that such was his motion.

PEEL. (pointing to the printed Notice Rook) said that was
the only mode whereby Mein here could judge of the nature of the
motion?' of which notice was given by Members.
Mr..111:11E observed that if, he said, it was not his motion, it
was rather too hard to insist that it was. The Right Honourable
Gentleman was out of order in his perseverance.
Mr-PEEL said that he had appealed to the manuscript which
was given in by the lion. Member and that it concurred word for
lord with the hook in his hand. How could the House know that
it was the Honourable Member's notice unless by consulting the
Order Book, in which he had entered it. With what propriety then
could the lion. Gentleman charge him with being out of order when
he quoted from the Oilier Book. (A laugh.) Beside the Hon. Member
would not deny that lie meant to follow the application for the
copy of the charter by the appendages. The reason which lie had
assigned on the former occasion, that the rights of the Dean and
Chapter of Westmitister Abbey did not differ from those of si-
milar corporations, was applicable in the present instance. He
did not approve of the practice of the Hon. Gentleman in intro-
ducing to dint House matters which ought to be brought forward
elsewhere. It surely was not fair to require individuals to produce
documents and evidence there, when the information so given might
be afterwards used to their prejudice. The Hon. Gent. may he quite
correct in stating that disputes exist between the Dean and Chapter
and the Minor Canoes. (Hear. hear.) But was that a reason
why the House, which wan pressed by urgent business, should he
occupied In the details of the parties ? The Honourable Member
wishes to know what houses and lands belong to Westminster
Abbey, and in whose possession they are; but such an iteerfererce
in the concerns of individuals was unuarliamentary. and totally
unfit for the Howe to adopt. If the Minor Canons hail any clam,
to prefer against the Bern and Chapter for a restitution of rights,
let them go to the proper tribunal; but die House should not con-
stitute itself into such a tribunal. Having before consented to give
the Honourable Gentleman the accounts for which he moved, of all
the fees received at Westminster Abbey, and of their appropria-
tion, he did not think that any more could be fairly required, and
he should therefore oppose the motion. •
131r.H1'31b; said the Right Hon. Gentleman ( Mr. Peel) had
taken upon himself to sly that his notice of motion wits wrong ;
but he.never understood that a Member of that House was obliged
to confine himself, word for word to his notice on moving for
papers. The fact, however, was, that the paper lie (Mr. Hume)
held in his hand was a copy of one lie sent to the Right Hon. Urn.
tleman (Mr. Peel) six clays back, and a copy of which he had also
given to the Clerk to enter, and when the Right lion. Gentleman
(Mr. Peel) said that the copy he held in his hand was his (Mr.
Hume's) notice, he was presuming and extremely—
' The SPEAKER rose to order, and asked the Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Hume) whether he rose to explain, or reply. It was true
that although it was rot strictly matter of right that a notice of
motion should exactly correspond with the aatice given, yet it was
very desirable that they should correspond as nearly as possible in
order to prevent irregularity. The lion. Gentleman (Mr. Hume)
was in the habit of giving more notices, perhaps, than any other
Member, and it was very desirable they should be ascorrectly given
as possible.
Mr. lIUME said that in the paper handed to the Clerk there
were four distinct heed*, and he had entered the substance, and
not the words, but, therefore, he (31r. H bound
was not to be ound
by the abstract so made. The Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Peel)
had said, that on moving for these papers, his conduct was unjust
and ungenerous; he would state to the House the reasons that had
induced him to do an. It appeared that the amount received for
admission to Westminster Abbey, realizod tomewhereabout 2.000/.
a year ; last year it was .15151. and which lie contended was impro-
perly taken from the pockets of the people. The Dean said it went
towards the payment of the minor canons and choir. He (Mr.
flume) would contend dust they had other funds front which those
payment, should be made. Ile would contend that the monuments
were public monutneute, and that the public had a right to see
them without payment. The House would not do their duty to the
public unless they instituted an inquiry.
Sir J. IVROTTESLEY said he could not avoid stating his
opinion upon the question before the House. If the practice in
question had been all ancient practice. then there might have been
' some reason for the line of conduct pursued by the Dean and Chap.
ter. Ile knew. and there were many Gentlemen in that House who
knew, that the present arrangement of IVeetminister Abbey, in
regard to the admission of the public, was an infringement of old
rules. He could state from his own knowledge, as well as that of
the Honourable Member for 'Somerset, that the system was totally
different to what it was some years ago. Formerly the public had
/I righter passing from Poet's-corner through the Abbey, which he
well knew from having been six yearned that school. He would
ask if it was a proper tiling that a person should not be able to walk
into that sacred pile without basing talkative Verger by his side?
Or that a person having an hour of leisure on a rainy day, should
be debarred front deriving knowledge, and studying the history of
his country, handed down to posterity the recital of the achieve-
ments of her mighty dead. Ile (Sir J. IVrotterley) ?membered
that upon upon bang there last year there was orly one small
door for the egress of the public. There was a large apace towards
the west door, which was assigned to the Dean, Prebends, and
King's Scholars, and the door in that situation was furnished solely
for their accommodation. The circuit of the Abbey was ball a
mile, and yet there was only one now open, although there were
no less than five in the Abbey. The amount of the money was the
least importaut pert of the subject; but he considered it highly in.
decorous, that a person not seeing a small door door open in Poet's
Corner, and being of a pensive mind or in a period of distress,
should be prevented !tom gaining admittance. and having the be-
nefit of the serviix. In respect to the return made by the Dean
and Chapter, they said that the mot.ey did not go into their own
pockets, but that it was applied to the use of the Choir, and the
manner of making that statement was in a most haughty style.
Ile recollected very well on a cold morning in winter. the poor
minor canons having to attend service, and having to tertian' the
duty to, perhaps, three old women In red cloaks. (A laugh.)
If the minor canons were to be paid nut of that fund,
who then had the Dean and Chapter to pay. Ile was
happy to say, that the present regulations had taken place
since the time of a Dean, where memory was held in the
highest veneration and respect. He (Sir John M-rottealey) had
been in the habit of attending at an annual meeting, where the apt-
planar, when the name of Vincent wu mentioned, made the walls
ring with applause. Ills name was profaned when placed upon
that paper ; and what would his feelings be, if he could rise front
his grave and are such a statement as that which appeared on the
paper returned to that House? If the Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Hume) would divide the House, he would Elise him his vote. The
intetference of the House had been complained of; but who had
began Hest? Why the Dean and Chapter began by taxing the
public, and he should like to kbow by what authority ?
Mr. PEEI.--Ay law.
SirJ. WROTTESLEY doubted that, and observed that the
Right Hun. Gentleman (Mr. Peei)bad said that the House had no
right to examine into it. If that was the case, then the Right Hon.
Gentleman ought to have stopped the proceeding In limbic. If the
Dean and Chapter had only returned things to their tomer
dtua-
dun, then the boon would not bare proceeded further.
Mr. HUDSON GURNEY said, that in reference to the Ili&
culty of getting slight of the Mena, es sointioped by the Right

lion. Gentleman (Mr. Peel), he (Mr. Gurney) presumed that
copy of it must be lodged in the Tower or some public depe,,bo,
It
were no certaitnlyopen was
the a natpublic.ional complaint that the national monument'
Mr.
Mr. ASHIJRST defended the conduct of the Dean and 0.„
ter, and said that the motion ought not to be granted (mina a Very
strong round were laid.
Sir J. NEWPORT said that if the present practice had
wailed from the earliest time, then there might have been some
ground for the present conduct of the Dean anti Chapter. But
when it was shewn that of that part which had been open a cor,ii
derable part was shut up, he would ask upon what gmund
the
refused to restore it to what it was in earlier times. The quean,,nY
was, whether the Minor Canons ought not to be paid out of the in.
cone derived by the principals? and therefore it was, rh, e
public had a right to know the nature of their title, and the appi,, cation of the fees of admission, for it appeared that they had
applied the money so received to an improper use, and the 11,,,,t
earned emolument of the Minor Canons thrown upon the r,g14,,,
which they ought to have borne. It was not the first instance at
Such a prartice in Fuel a body, nor of the public being called um,
to pay. He (Sir John Newport) also objected to the surd,
duced into the return. It was not right that any body, who
called upon to make a return to that House, should say any 'al:,
fur themselves upon the face of that return. If. in judging ~r
parties, they felt themselves aggrieved, then they might tom, ,r;
he heard, but they ought to confine themselves to die indiialt: 1
farts which they were called upon to answer. They 'vice of i..
fringrment, and being bound by the intentions of the founder.
Ile (Sir John Newport) would, however, contend that the Muse
had a right to see bow the funds had been disuoted of. Ile hoped
the House would protect the people against all impes!dou hy the
Dean and Chapter of Weotminster, or by any other ',Abe 6v,
It hod been said that the question ought not to be tried in Mari
House. but in a court of law ; but how were the fords for that
purpose to lie supplied ? It was hardly to b 2 expeetd that a pri.
vale individual was to be put to an expense for such a purpoe:
but he had s still greater objection to their being pal out of the
funds of which they were already complaining of the improper ad.
ministrati m of.
the3l,:rx.i edC.Fnlt4;. olfVtlii.eN,N did not mean to defend the pmpri.,y er
orders that had ben given at Ma same
iim.l he balieved the Dean and Chapter had the rig's of doss
ing the Abbey; in the same way that the power coning
Church at Other times than divine service was ocruir,,,,, by Otte,
parties. IVithin his (Mr. Wynn's) recollection the charge for
admission was sixpence; the incseaking the amount enuld not be
gone into by that House, Tney were not the proper judges of it.
If a road was !topped up. then, to try the right, the partias melt
have recourse to lair, When the time should urriva that the Dean and Chapter came to the House of Commons Cra money, then they
*night be called upon for an account, but the question of rght
such per.
la3rttenr,t!:llletni eby
House
could only be decided by legal prosecution. Ile could not but
regret the conduct of the Dean and Chapter, but, for the reasons
he had stated, lie was compelled to oppose the movon.
Mr. 11.1 RING condemned the language of the Dean and Chap.
the grant was.
The House was then cleared for a division, when the numbers
sons.ki nro. ww whhc;altt hee ienolci.usiebrioi a
couldi
siened
tehcer'rcltj
uppeareJ as follows:

For the resolution, .r•6—Against it. 72—Miajnti•7
01 (Air return to the gallery 31r. II L 111.: was moving his scond
re.nlutii n, " for a Copy of the Grant of 16'37 to !he choir. on on.
dition that. on their receiving the benefits ot• the exhibition of the
monuments. they ►hould keep them clean."
A 311:31111:11„ whose name did not reach the gallery, expressed
his inteltion to vote for the present resolution, th.itigh he had op.
posed the former.

3lr. PEEL wished to know whether he was to understand that
the Dom!!! eniavr (31r.liume) would wi hdraw his other motions na
the subject, because if such were the case, he (Mr. Peel) would not
wish to oppose the present resolution, inasmuch as public money
a as you'd for the repairs of monuments, aid there'ore there was a
distinction in that case feenn the rest. As to the question of right
even if the House came to a decision upon it, it had not the power
or enforcing compliance on the part of the Dean and Chvpter. At
the same time it had the right of withholding the public montv,
should it see lit to do en. 11: (lilt. Peell wished every access to he
alliirded to the public, at the same time he thought if the right was
to be ascertained. a court of law was the pimp'? place 'o tecide it.
lie regretted that they had not complied with the enter of the
House in a proper manner., and should not object to the motion as
it involved a question es to the grant of public money.
3lr. 111:31E stated it was not hi.; intention to abandon his othet
motions.

31r. GOULBURN said a few words which were inaudible in the
gal.l!

Mr. PEEL proposed to postpone the motion, in order that im
q•tity migitt be made as to whether the grant was to the Dean and
Ch tpter, or the Choir.

- .
Mr. E objected to the postponement on that ground.
Mr. W. SMITH supported tne motion.
The gallery was then cleared for a division.
On our return to the gallery no division had taken place, lut
Mr. CANNING was addressing the House. We understooa
him to say that there did not exist the same ground of objection to
the production of the grant of ICI, because it appeared that the
House had already interfered to relieve the Dean and Chapter from
a portion of the repairs of the monuments of the Abbey ; but, be-
fore the motion could be acceded to, it was necessary to sacertata
whether this was a grant tram the Crown ; if it was, then there
would be no opposition trade to its production; but if u eurid
prove to be a grant from the Dean and Chapter to the Choir. there
certainly would be a very great objection to accede to the motion,
on the ground that the cocument asked for would, in the latter
case, be private property. Under these circumstances, he could
recommend the Honourable Member (Mr. Hume) to poslione his
modal until it were ascertained whether this grant was from the
Crown or from the Dean and Chapter.
Mr. HlialE could not understand the flight lion. Gentleman.
In the first place, lie objected to the production of the el:arter be.
cause it was to grant from the Crown. and the party might hare his
remedy in a court of law ; and in the second place he objected to
the production of: the grant, because it was supposed to he not a
grnnt from the Crown. He must leave it to the Right Hon. Gen-
tlernan to reconcile this inconsistency.
Mr. Secretary PEEL would attempt to explain what the His.
Or ntleman conceived to be an inconsistency, but which was no in-
consistency at all. The Right Hon. Gentleman then repeated the
observations made by the Right Hon. Secretary for For:ign Affairs,
and concluded by expressing a hops that the Hon. Gentleman
would withdraw his motion till it was ascertained whether the grant
was of a public or private description.
Mr. HUME said that it appeared that the public money had
been appropriated for the purpose of relieving the Dean and
Chapter from the expense of maintaining the monuments. The
House was entitled to have every information as to the right of the
parties to have the public money entrusted to their appropriation.
Mr. DEN MAN saw no occasion to withdraw the mo ion. It
was known by his H n. Friend (Mr. Hume) that this was not a
grant from the Crown. but that it was one from the Dean and
Chapter to the Choir. The object of his Hon. Friend was to as.
certain whether the duty of maintaining the Abbey did not befell
to the Dean and Chapter, and whether the Dean and Chapter had
notdevolved that duty upon the choir by means of this grant. Het
wished to say one word on tnis occasion with reference to what
hail fallen from some Honourable Gentlemen on the other
side. It had been argued as if it were merely a qnestion of private
property. He could not think it was at all gracious to say that this
House was not to enter him any inquiry into the subject, because
there might, by possibility, be a right at common law. This argu-
ment might equally well apply to a great many other question
which were frequently brought under the consideration of the
House. If every individual who complained that he was chrged
two shillings for seeing the Abbey, when he thought there ought
to be so charge at all, was to be made a champion of public rights
in a Court of Chancery, then this House certainly did not afford
that species of protection which the public had a right to expect
from it. Here was a public trust imposed on the Dean and Chap.
ter, and this House had an undoubted right to see to its being pro-
perly discharged ; and in order to that it was necessary to lawn
the documents called for by his Hon. Friend ; he therefore hoped
his Hon. Friend would not consent to withdraw his modem.
On our return to the gallery, we found that the nutnbas wete—
For the motion, 37 I Against it. 68 Mejerity, 31.
Mr. HUME, after making a few observations, said he should
withdraw the other motions of which he had given notice, relative
to the same subject for the present, but that it was his intention on
a future occasion to move a resolution expressive of tile opinion
which this-House entertained of the extraordinary conduct of the
Dean and Chapter of W. stminster.
Lord PALMERSTON moved for legve to bring in a BM to
amend the Act of 52 orthe Ilte King relating to the retired al-
lowance to Quarter-Masten..
Mr. HUME wished to know whether the Bill was to meal the
fordier Act, and to re-enact some of its clauses, or was to coral.
tute an additional statute on the books; if the latter it would be
entirely inconsistent with that principle of consolidation which had
been recently acted upon, and he should object to the Bill being
brought in.

Lord PALM ERSTON said the present Act enabled the King
to place 'paymasters on the retired list after 30 years service: did
object of the Bill he wished to introduce, would be to make it
lawful to grant retired allowances to persona incapable of further
duty after 20 years service. If the lion. litentlentan would permit
the Bill to be brought in, it would be found to be framed as the
Hon. Gentleman proposed.—Leave was then given.
Mr. It. 31A ItTIN postponed his Bill to prevent the cruel sad
improper treatment of dog, to Monday next.
BRIBERY AT ELECTION BILL.
Or, the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL this Bill went
through s Committee, when several amendments were agreed to:
and the Bill ordered to be printed.
The House resumed, the Report was brought up and ordered to
be taken into further consideration to-morrow se'nroght.
On the motion of Mr. TENNYSON, a Bill to ptohibit spring.
guns and men traps was read a first time, and ordered to be rend a
second time on Thursday next.
Mr. HUME brought in a Bill to repeal the duties on sheep-
skins and lamb-,itins, which was read a first time, and ordered to
be read a second time to-morrow.
Mr. BERRIES brought in a Bill to amend an Act of the late
King, so far as related to the Board of Trade, and to sffix a salary
to the office of the President of the Board of Trele ; but that the
said office should not be considered a new office ; which was raid a
first time, and ordered to be read a Second time to-morrow.
The motion of which Mr. W. SMITH lied given notice. Nerd'
ing the slave population in the colonies of Demerara and Runic'.
was postponed till the 11th of May next.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the !bete
adjourned at TsVELVE O'CLOCK.