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London, England, 1821-06-19 00:00:00

would cement to no delay which would ezelude
the House from the advantage or his talents in
the discussion. A► all events. be must take
cam to guard himself against being misunderstood.
If postponement took place so as to render his
notice unavailing, he roust declare that it had hi-en

t - ---r o one request o that nature from an _on. Member
then present, and now by the Noble Marquis uppo-
-site. His Right Hon. Friend the Member for Wa-
terford had held out some hope to him that he
would @lieu& us late us Thursday. If it were pos-
sible for the Noble Marquis to agree to that dry,
it would be very desirable. If not, he hoped that
the next day would be the latest period proposed.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY did not in the
least question the purity of the motives which
guided the conduct of the Hon. Member. He
thought, however, that considering the importance
of the case in every way, Friday next could not be
considered as a very distant period.
Sir J. NEWPORT was so circumstanced that he
could not stay beyond the week. He thought that
the Howie might inform itself of all necessary par-
ticulars by Friday. He admitted that the grave
nature of the subject, which went to affect the cha-
racter of a Learned Judge lit a most serious roomier,
ought not to be undertak,en without very perfect
intormation being had oils' the subject. But he
thought that as the Report had been some time be-
fore Parliament, and the counter-statement had
arrived, the discussion might fairly proceed on
Friday next.
Mr. C. WYNN saw a very great evil in postpon-
ing a grave charge on an individual in a high
station, and suffering that charge to lie on the
table unanswered until the ensuing Session ; it was
purticulorly objectiondile to have a great petsou
presiding in • Court of Justice, at a time when •
charge of extortion was lying unanswered a„ shaft
him; such a delay must be a great evil to him, as
well its the public; decision was in every way de-
sirable; the House was bound to sacrifice almost
every other discussion for the sake of it. It might
turn nut that there were no sufficient grounds for
the charge. The benefit would be incalculable
to the individual in question were that to be
their decision ; out the contrary, if grounds were
to be laid by the inquiry for ulterior proceed-
ings, though they could not approach to a final
judgineut, it might he necess try to suspend the
lunctions of the Judge until • decision could be
tinidly given. In that case it would require a lit-
tle time to pass a Bill through the House of Lords,
and the discussion could not come GO too soon.

S. RICE fluid that he could not consent to

wait beyond Friday. He had taken the utmost
pains, by possessing 51inisters and another party
with the resolutions he had to move, to point out
the course which he meant to pursue. If there
were any other means by which it was possible to
give more notoriety to it, he was very willing to
adopt them ; but he once for all wished to rid him-
self of any blame which might result from delay.
Mr. O'GRADY acquirsotd in the declarations
which had been made against delay. It was not
the fault of the Chief Baron that any delay had
taken place iii laying his observations tot the table.
The very moment he could get hold of the Report,
he hurl put down, notwithstauding the hurry of pub-
lic business, in a distant country town, to draw up
those observations. He did not believe that any
blame as to delay could be attributed either here
or oil the other aide of the water. lie admitted
that the Hon. Member had postponed this qnestion
once before at his solicitation ; his reason for
making that re nest was, that the communica-
tionbil from the
.. 'hid Baron had been absolutely
forwarded at t time, and lie considered that the
discussion cowittiot possibly take place except it
were laid befortAse House, li had been dispatched
with all possible:speed from Ireland. The Hon.
Member had postponed his motion in consequence
till that day. The only objection now existing was
that the Noble Marquis and the Right Hon. Gen-
tlemen opposite had not read the Chief Baroo's
answer to the allegations against him in the 9th Re-
port. The Resolutions to be proposed were to be
groutidad nn that Report, oil which they must
either stand or fall. These were the only reasons
for postponing the discussion, for which no man
could be more anxious than himself, or more Tear-
lessly look forward to the decision.
!Fir. SCARLET(' said a few words, and the Com-
mitiee was postponed till Finlay next.

GRANT TO THE DUKE OF CLARENCE.

The Marquis of LOODONDIdaRY moved the
order of the day for trim% into consideration the
Grant to the Duke of Clarence.

Mr. HOME rose to state his objections to the mo-
tion. Referring to the lust settlements w hick had been
made on the Royal Family, lie reminded the House
that 11 general agreement had heels adopted, that
24,0001. a-year ought to be the full amount of any
allowances to be made to the junior brsuchrs of
the Itityal Family. He thought that if ever thew
was a time which peculiarly required it, the
present situation of the country demanded that
limits *Wald be set to those allowances. The
'Duke of Clarence had the conditions then offered.
The other Princes had accepted them. Consider-
ing the liberality of Parliament in snaking those
grunts, and that there were 90,0001. of the Eng.
bah and upwards of 50,0001. of the Irish Civil
List placed at the disposal of the Crown, to grant
iu whatever pensions it ',leased, lie thought that
any allowance beyond that lorinetly fixed by Par-
liament ought to be made out of one or other of
these lands. He would propose, as an amendment,
that, Instead of 6,000/. there should be only
3,5001. granted in addition to the 20,500/. al-
ready granted to make up 24,0001. to be taken
wit of the Oonsolidated Fund lot his Royal High-
ness the Doke of Clarence; and if it were advisable
to make hint any further allowance, Ministers might
recommend it to be made nut of the provisions of
the English or Irish Civil List, from the latter of
which the additioual allowance of 7,8001. to the
Duke of York had been made. He concluded by
snoring • Resolution, by way of amendment, to the
purport of his speech.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that grants
were formerly made out of the Civil List to the
Royal Family ; but the custom had been long dis-
continued, from a feeling that it was better for the
country that so mooch werrniment revenue should
not be left at the continued disputal of the Crown.
Had the allowance to the Duke of Clarence ',e.ta

• ....•-
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added to the charges of the Civil List, it would
have placed so much at the permanent disponi of
the Crown, whether the Duke had lived or died:
He put it to the candour of the Hon. Gentleman if it
would be fair to press hi. amendment, and he did
really believe that the Hon. Member would either
w►tisdoew-i►irwaliwe. or vote against it.

Sir 1. CoPIIN meant to support the original
motion, because he owed alt that he possessed to
the friendship of the Duke of Clarence. He had
served with his Royal Highness in peace and war,
and since the time of Charles 11. no one had better
fulfilled the duties of his rank. He had smelt
powder early ; had been, when a very little boy, in
the action off the Dogger Bank ; afterwards served
under Digbv ; then under Lord Hood ; had psased
through his whole time before lie was made
Captain ; commanded the Pegasus ; and it was no
light matter to lig of him, that all the young mete
in his ship hud either been made Admirals, or had
died in honourable advancement while serving their
country. Had his Royal flightless reinsined in the
service he would have done it as much honour a►
Nelson or Collingwood, and there was no officer who
had ever tI4 full a knowledge of his professional
duties. He concluded by opposing the amendment.

Mr. CVRIVIIN said, the mottoes of the Honour.
nble Member who had just sat down were honour-
able to himself, but yet not such as the House
should act upon. These were times when every
man must give up a portion of his income ; and
why should not the Crown participate ? But
he thought the whole of this proceeding was
irregular, and he should like to hear front the
Chair upon what grounds the House could he
called upon to make any grant without • Mes-
sage front the Crown. He knew of no precedent
for this grant. These were times when went sa—
crifices should be made, and they should be be.
gun with the Crown, in order to reconcile the rest
of the community.
Sir 1. Covent explained. He said his matim
was, wheneser l►e sow a brother sailor in distress,
never to turn his stern to him.

Mr. LOCK HA RT opposed the grant, on the pound.
of the great decrease iii the value of money. A.
grant of VO,OOO/. now was. in fact, worth a landed
property of 30.000/. in consequence of the certatutv
of payment. The mime necessity that could justify
the abolition of the horse tax, called for denying
the present application, and lie could not, therefore,
support any additional grant to the Duke of Cla.
rence, still less the arrears.
Mr. MONCK said, there was no nail more dis-
posed to respect the Royal Family than he was,
but he was equally disposed to vote both against
the grunt and arrears. Taking the present grant
of 6,0001. a-year at twelve years purchase, it
amounted to 100,0001. and he would call on the
House to know whether they thought they were in
a situation to grant that sum at the present day._
He, for one, as a faithful guardian of the public
purse, was not disposed to grant one additional far..
thing. And let the Noble Marquis say what lie
would of " English hearts," he had not met a mail
out of doors, no matter what might be his party,
that did not express his surprise at that strange
proposition, and lie should certainly oppose it at
every stage.
Mr. flume explained. He would sot divide the
Douse at that period, but should wait until they
went into a Committee.
The Repent was then brought up and read a Arse
time.
Mr. thug wished to ask the Speaker how the
sense of the House were to be taken upon the two
points?
The SPILI ER replied that the Report should be
read a second nine, and then it was competent for
any Member to move by way of amendment any
diminished sum, and with respect to the arrears,
it was merely to alter the date from 1818 to 1821.

Mr. CUawE9 said, es he had n proposition dd..
ferent fitsin either of those of his Hots. Frieud (Mr.
Ilurns-), and wi•lied to get lid of the grant in Solo,
he should move that the Report be read this day
three month►.

Mr. J. MARTIN said he should support the
amendnieut. He owed ►ro debt to the Duke of
Clarence, but he did to the country, and, besides,
that House bud not been a party to the original
grant.
Mr. BECHER raid lie should support the rant
of 6,000/. a year, but should rot:: against the ar-
rears.

Mr. ABERCROMBY said he felt himself hound to
vote against the amendment of his Hon. Friend, or
else be precluded from granting and• sum whatever.
Mr. RICARDO wi►hrd that the Duke of Clarence
should be placed on the same footing as his bro-
thers, and therefore must oppose the amendment.
'rise House then divided on Mr. Curecu's
amendment. The numbers were—

Fur it . ......... ..... le
Against it
Majority against the •meadatent . • 126

On our re.edmiesion to the gallery, Mr. BUIE'
moved as an amentiment that • sum not exceeding
3,5001. be granted front the Consolidated Fund.
Mr. Ewes thought the proposition of his Hon.
Friend merely went to prevent a larger sum than
3.500/. from being paid out of the Consolidated
Fund, but still left the power to the Crown of in-
creasing the grant from any other fund.
Mr. BERNAL said, his Han. Friend (Mr. flow)
had not attempted to dictate to the Crows in giv-
ing away ony money at its disposal. He mere!,
proposed that tin larger sum should be paid out .
the Consolidated Fund, hut leasing it to the Crown
to exercise its own discretion with respect to any
other funds ut its disposal. On • former occasion
his Hots. Friend had in a openly manner stated to
the House that the Duke of Clarence enjoyed sit
income of 2,5001. more than any other branch of
the Royal Family, and that was a subject that
never could have entered the consideration of the
House when they made the former grant.
Mr. PETER NIOORE thought the present grant
came in a most crooked, underhand, insidione
manner—(Hear, and a laugh)—and he should like
some of the Gentlemen on the opposite side would
11711:iuut:iwesnot had been followed up
meprecedent,iiiwhich the vote of one
in a subsequent
one. During the whole admittistration of subsequenteperen-t
pre-
sent Speaker, whose administration he had oni-
uniformly supported, he bud heard of au pre-
cedent to justify the proceedings. A Menage
should have come from the Throne in the oust

aorp.