The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1819-02-09 00:00:00

STOREKEEPER-GEN Elt A 1..

On the mutton of Mr. (;•LCKAFT, ihr tones nr
the establishment of the Storekeei,er-Generslwas

ordered to be prsiited.

EXCISE LAWS.

Mr. D. W. FIAUVEY moved for v return of
ntlinli r of nNttoov its the Evelieritt, r,
the Evelse Lovv„ for the !evr cooling the 3tit ~(
.1 'story, 14 19--disliogos•:.tog those r0nt1.r..u...•
room those brought to reghlvr issor—berether e..L
the amount of •um+ rrt-ovrii thereto.—Ordered.

Learned Priend....(Hter, Aeits.)--11c Gentleman,
hi.e
14.'01. would eland up :aid sac, that there
man, not only in the House, but its the
„0 m, inure capable of doing essential service
M, a Committee of this deseription than he was.—
(ilear, hear.)—But the Noble Lord said, the
comber of the Committee was complete, and that
'so other name could he added. Now one of the
which the Noble Lord qttoteds made
'oust its position. A Member, it appeared,
woo ass known is be 400 miles off, and who
eoelll tint possibly attend, was elected on a
Scerrt Committee, which proceeded in its ditties
without lime. It', then, a dioniuution were *le
what objection Could there be to all addl.
tiles ? The fact was, Ministers would sever give
way to any thing which originated on that side of
the I louse, except they found the sense of the ma-
jority and of the country spinet them.--/Hear.)
this instance they attempted to decide what
was the law of Parliament, and stated, that, on such
an mention such a mode was adopted. But, be-
cause former ParliamOnts had done .wrong. were
they to proceed in a wrong course now ?—(Hear,
hear.)—The Committee were bound to snake the
most accurate report they could on the subject—
and would the House, because 21 nuinee bad been
selected, the most efficient Member being left out,
persist in withholding from the Committer. the well.
known talents of his Learned Vend ?—(Heer,
'Aeur.)—The opposition of the iloble Lord amount-
ed to nothing more than this, " lie shall not be
added to the Committee, because he sits on the
other side of the House."—(hear, itetar.)--It was
mot pretended that he was not qualified—and the
resistance to his nomiustion could only be traced
to a system of hostility.—( Hear, hear.)—If the
pumbers were so equally bah timed, ten persons
taken from one side of the House, sod eleven from
the friends of Ministers' it might be said, that those
who proposed his Learned Friend wished to make
the balance completely even. Bat the Noble
Lord had taken ample security on that
( Hear, hear.)-4t present the Geutlenten taken
from this side of the House were, compared with
the friend' of Ministers, as seven to twenty-one
.—and, if his Learned Friend were added to the
her, they would be as eight to twenty-two.
The Noble Lord could not surely suppose that Ins
friends were so slippery, as to excite a suspicion
that they would vote against him.—( Hear, hear.)
There was no great fear of that, he believed—fur
it could not be doubted that the Noble Lord had
selected those who were most attached to his mea-
sures. The question was a most insportsot one.
The House and the country filed their anxious at-
tention on it--and his Learned Friend, who stood
at the head of those Members of Parliament re-
markable for persevetiof research into deep sod
complicated subjects, ought not to be excluded
from the inquiryr.flisae. hear.)
Lord CASILSSZAOII believed that the Learned
Gentleman was extremely capable of investigating
an abstruse subject. It was alpinist the practice,
sod not the individual, that he protested.
Mr. S. WORTLEY perfectly agreed with the
Right Hon. Gentleman. that his Learned Friend
was, in every respe4t, capable of examining this
question. But, if he were not placed on the Cows.
mittee, it was the fault of the Gentlemen opposite
theanselves.--I Hear, hear.)—He would explain
how far this appeared to him to be the fact. The
liaise decided that 21 Members bimetal sit on that
Committee, and that it should be fumed by bal-
lot, as in ancient times. There usually were two
lists of name* when a ballot was appointed. But,
on this occasion, the Geutlemen opposite did not
offer any hat whatever. There were about 100
I.sts placed in the glass, by Gentlemen on his side
of the House, but the Gentlemen opposite did
tint come forward with • single list. Surely then,
if they did not, they had no right to complain. If
cnohalf of the minority that voted against the bal.
lot, hid put iii a list with the utme of the Learned
Gentleman, they would have carried their point.
Several of the names on the lists which were put in.
were altered by different Gentlemen. The same
course was open to the Gentlemen opposite, who
might have formed what lists they plealed--ssod if
they neglected to do so, they had ho right to come
olmie If they had come forward, they would hese
bad a very good chance of succeeding. But, hay-
neglsocted their ditty, they ought not to be al-
lowed to persuade the House to add a new Member
to the Committee.—(Heer, hear.)
Mr. PitOTIIEROE said, the statement of the Hon.
Member (Mr. Wortley) might lie theoretically cor-
rect, but, if examined practically, would be found
to mean very little. NVas it not notorious, that, on
every occasion of ballot, even where two hits were
put in, that avowedly prepared by Ministers was
sure to be carried ?--( near, hear.)—They were
known to conic forward, as a body, with all their
weight and influence, which it iv,is impossible to
withstand. It would he more manly fur them to
say at once, " We take the nomination of the Colo-
matte into our own instead of endeavour-
ing to defend the system they pursued by a weak
subterfuge. He certainly wrield give his vote for
:iding the name of the Learned Gentleman to the
Committee.
Mr. CA tour/. still, the lion. Gentleman (Mr.
Wortley) had thought ht to lecture the individuals
atthat side of the House, for neglect of duty. Ile
4ave them good advice, and i.e hoped they would
ilnprove by it. But he wichs just to ask of the
lion. Gentieman. whether, if lie mid his friends had
eta its 100 lists, they would out have been met by
lye additional Iron the Miiiiatenal side of the
llouse ?—( I km-, hear.) Ile believed 200 persons
that ocea-ion, and that there were 175
:altered Tieasury lists.
Mr. WA erilM A N said, if the object of Gentlemen
%erre a full and fair inquiry, he could not see say
they would oppose the present motion. He did
rot see why they should object to the 'lame of Mr.
Brougham. s Gentleman pooteseng talents of the
highest oeder, and knowledge of great extent.—
Whatever Gentlemen may say its that House, by
whatever pretext they might labour to get rid of
such a putt, the country at large would say, that
this Committee of Inquiry was but a Committee to
suppress real inquiry. He void, he would ever op-
pose the appointment of a Committee by ballot,
because lie considered it no improper mode of
14.kt:till a Coi 1111 l ittee ; it had indeed been made a
lee of—it had afforded infinite amusement to the
[her side of the House, but lie considered it a
.vv sad mspurtaut matter, and Gentlemen who

treated it with 1. vitt., who call it a joke, chew very
little respect for public opinion. Ile could nut
think that the House would perform its duty, even
if precedent were against the present motion. to
exclude Mr. Brougham from the Committee. Pre-
cedent should not he attended to where precedent
might he mischies cots. It might, he said, happen,
that is particular individual, on a particular 40CC.1
mon, might he better qualified to act—iniglit have
more capability and inforniati .. than all the. persona
on the Committee put together ; it might happen
that such a man might, by chance, or by design,
be excluded—in such a case, hr would ask, was the
House, was the country to be shut out from all the
information such an individual could tilfard ow a
mere matter of punctilio?—but us far as precedents
go, it is stated that they are in favour of the nomi-
nation. For his part, he did not conceive that the
mode adopted was the way to promote a full and
complete inquiry; he fur one hail no expectation
from the investigation. Thought lie had not, he
said, the honour of a seat in the House before, yet
he was not inattentive to its proceedings. He heard
enough—the country heard enough of Secret Com-
mittees—they beard enough of the old jukes of the
1)4.110'1111g system—they heard enough of the Green
Bag Committees, to hope for an useful ueanit. The
fair intentiou of the ballotting system war, he said.
to have the Members of Committees appointed
unbiased and impartial. Time, however, had in-
verted it, and experience chewed that it was a sys-
tem that should not be upheld, hut ought, on every
coilstitutional and honest principle, to he imme-
diately abaudoned. He would not, he said, detail'
the House with any further observation.
Mr. WILLIAMS WYNN Paid he should not feel
an objection to the appointment of Committees by
ballot, if that mode were purely and properly
adopted; it might then be cobsidered as the vote
of the House; but what surprised hint was the
ob-
jection to the present motion on the ground of pre-
cedent. He said the cases were numerous where
Members were added to Committees utter their op-
lorintinent. It frequently occurred so where Mem-
bers were out of Parliament at the time of the
tippoititinent of the Committee, and whose know-
ledge and lab eurs were most desirable ; many in-
stances could be stated is mere Members were thus
appointed. In the Committee of Secresy, is the
year 1779, on the affairs of India, three eddit 1
Members were put on the Committee ; in 1781,
there was another case; and there was, in 1797,
the case of Mr. Fox. In addition to the propriety
of putting upon the established precedents and
custom of the (louse, the merits of the inltividuel.
Iris extensive and useful knowledge, his great assi-
duity, his temper and his jodgineet peculiarly
fitted lam fur the Committee. He (Mr. Wyliii)
did not think that there was a dissenting voice in
the whole country to luestiim the political know-
ledge awl the industry of Nit.. Brouglium. The
Hon. Gentleman conc4uded by saying, lie would
certenilv vote lor the motion.
Mr. CANNING !raid, that as what dropt from him
the oilier eight had been frequently alluded to, lie
would detain the blouse whilst lie said a few words.
to taking the liberty the other night of speaking on
the system by ballot, he said that one of the main
advantages of that footle was, that any Member
might vote for any particular individual to sit on
the Committee witliont avowing his sentiments oue
way or the other ; ;141(1 Gentlemen wonld do him the
justice to recollect, that on that eight he elisteined
frimi suakitig any remark on the qualities of any in-
dividual ; and as for the Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
itrauglieni) a hose name is now in questiosi, he was
williog to aubaciibe to all that had been said in his
praise. He admitted dint instances had occurred,
lifter the nomination of Committees by ballot, where
the (limes of individuals had been added, but such
cases always arose out of new consideratioos—such
as Nlembere coming iitto the House who were not
theme when the Ceintniitee Was appoilited—such es
the peculiar fitness of particular Members for the
subject to come under the consideration of the Coin-
mittve—(lleur,from the (lpposition,)-7these Mem-
bers nut having been sitting at the time the Cont.
mittee had hero nominated. But when the House
had at the time of the nomination the qualificatioil3
of all the Members before it, lie knew of nu
occasion where Porliametit entertained a propo-
sition such as was now submitted. It was oil
this ground that he opposed the motion. Ile
Would abstain from any invidious coniparison—
he relied on this, that the House, at the time the
Committee had been formed, had a full and per-
fect knowledge oldie qualificatioi,s of all the Nlem-
bers--of the qualifications of the Honourable and
Learned Gentlemen whose name was mentioned in
the debate; yet with this knowledge they did not
appoint him—and therefore, ptittmg individual
qualifications altogether out of the question, lie
would oppose the motion on principle—he would
oppose it, becatitie it would be inconvenient to
open the Committee anew—lie would oppose it,
because lie Believed that if the name of the Hoe.
rind Lraru.d (11-titleman (M r. Brougham) were
added, the alteritt. would not stop there.
Mr. WYNN rose to say a few words, rendered in
his mind necessary from the, speech of the Right
114 m. Gentleman who had just sat down. The
precedents lie hill alluded to before were tweet.-
dews exactly tit point. tint precedents that fell un-
der the description of those relied on by the Right
Hon. Member. Ile would ment the case of
Lied Finch and the Chancellor of t!!e Exchequer,
who, in the year 1715, were added to a Cuininittee.
In 1773 the names of Mr. Jenktissoo (die late Lord
Liverpool!, Mr. Langley, and Mr. Hopkinson, were
adder( to a Committee of that House. Fu 1781 the
t.anit of Lord I ;bittern was added to u Committee
of that House. Lastly. he would tneutiou the case
of Mr. Fox, iii 1797. Ile would only say. that all
these were Members of the House at the tune the
Committees had been originally appointed, and
this, he trusted, would be a sufficieut answer to the
ground of objection relied on by the Right Hon.
Urialeiniiii (Mr. Ca 111 l i l tg).
Mr. BARHAM sand, that the fact wits known, that
the appointment of Committees as they were now
appointed, were little better than a delusion ; it
was a kind of juggle on the country. An Hon.
Gentleman had stated. on a former night, that du-
ring his experience in Parliament. two lists bad been
Away, circulated on the appointment of Comilla-
tees ; but he (Mr. Barham) could stets that during
Ins experience, he handy foetid that the Oppo-
eit mu list was alto possible use, amid the consequence
had always been, that the great majority of all

•
Committees liaul been tiorninated by the Nlioister. *Loll tlitts:—The reverate of lain, pr!
lie syllabi rejoice to P-r the practice droppeol, he- 54.068,000 r ; the resenne in 1818, proi:o,7e4l
cause it wit' both partial amid tuifor. As for the ' 39.744.000/. ; the surplus of 'isn't:mew taxes Is
tatint of Gentlenieut ut hi 4 ride of the House not 3,• •18,000/. whirl' is out less iliati ten pet rent• lii-
dnichargiug their duty, he felt that it was nut crease Oft the revenue; this he saiil oil. the st lona-
cessary fur him to notice mt ; but this lie would nay, i est proof of the iii:•rywattg proaincta th, eolintry.
that it was much heifer, tool more honest, if Gen. of her aolimi resources, ;old her tio,,eoving caistoeree.
denten did not pretrial to diachargo the duty they It was orcesaary, he said. ts rental k, that this
owed to the people. than
public onderstoodoig. It wet a hopeless attempt ; great
-awl extraordinary dentaild fur any woollier
the people would see the conduct of Gentlemen iu I article of counnieree. Ile eimuslil rotate thirty or
its true light ; they would see that t some men 1 laity different article*, only two of -whim h priultteril
sail the- dal
it were vain to expect tiny thin:: that wan useful to any IMplif lout iuscre.wc the reoMilr,
the country. As far the objectutm to the pretreat I nut immtunt to Inure imam ilu
11
atretm that:sand
d
motion, he considered it' little weight, halved. pounds. It 111 1111•11.11 Y 11‘1 1"'"'""it
Deficient in argioneut, and opposed to precedent. marmite of the solid commerce of the country.
it had for its object the exclosiotu from an important Having stated so fur, lie would beg to odd mt kw
Committee, who imule every
inquiry is 4111111illeatints pre-eminently addlfiOnal facts. time
fitted him to sit on that Contitultue. There was possible Ise air i uto the colittliem coal 'date of the
not. he believed, an individual in the country ca• country, acid who took the be-t prospective view in
gable of forming a Pound opinion whir Wilda not their power of the income and the extienses of the
declare, that Mr. Brougham ono m maul, above all m country fot the year 10.'9, stale that they thonglit it
others. most tit to sit on that Committee, from sale to assign a .urn of 5!,500,000/. its'the rraenue.
which the Ministers to actively laboured to exclude end • mon 51.‘97,"001. as she attleittnt of the
him. expenses ; thus leaving it surl,lin. of 1,430.0181!.
Mr. MARTIN (of Galway) said, he beard Gentle- 'Phis, hr was the estimate ramie by the
men at the other side dwell very largely on the mittee, but he would lief; leave In submit to tie
talents and the information of the 1-14111.1415,1 Learned House what lie emmeol, Im mu the affairs of the coommtry
AlletOber (11r. ; best shoe finalities, in to be hi a limormit'ial point of view. luotead ef
Ilia mood, were slot all shut was necessary—these i 52,400,00 C. lee was glad iss hr able to star, that
would not induce lion to accrue to the present t the revenue itturninted to 5.11)00,011UL conseith-sitly
motion—he could conceive a Gentleman at the i leaving 1.500,00'1/. noire dam svmai the most sato
134 f. learned as ft Lawyer, but a loin his Majesty ginute expectations of the 1111 l matte could hope for.
would not he rotator(' to almond to any
,joint nil On the other lewd. the Cu 11111 l ittee eettmated the
situation.—(Cries " Question ! question ."' ) experts, s of lite year at 51,087,000/.; but it
Ile could conceive a case where a moil might be gave hint intir•lt pleamire to be aide to estonate
very highly skilled in divinity, yet the Ministers of those expetuaes at 50,442,00 N. being 645,0044.
his Majesty would riot he ,mdemsed to make him a Its. than the rstim "lion of the Committee;
Bishop.—(Mach Linghlee.)—Government and the mid there is now a surplus over the absolute ex-
Howse had other considerations in view besides the iprune. of the country of 3,550,000/• appltrable to
appointment of the Hon. 'Member; and though het the reduction
ed of
wit the a
stem of debt. Thone mis lone ,
m., hos/eerie,
ch
would slot deny him the wane, on the score of iii- may be chargh whi
formation and of talents. he' would still vote :loom tie
hoped to he able meet by Ilw ciierring
him. Precedents hal been mentioned—he coo- Pects which the revenheld out—porsprits, its-
sidered the matter should rather he derided by deed, the most cheering, for it appears that the
the discretion of the House ; he felt that he increase of the reventie for the last month was from
had a right to use his disci-etas:l, nod he would 300 1a 350,0001. more Ilion ally mouth of the lost
vote
timeaainst the motion. Alm!' had been attimi quarter. This, lie autici, was a moist detnotistratise
about management of Government waking proof of the iocreasing revenite of the State. Hassid
out lists, but he verily believed treat if Governmetst he could not but emigratolitte the country on the
had been ever so anxious, it would he ant of their happy prospects it preatoned. There was a surplus of
power to procure the nomination of the !lon. Gen- three trillium', and if his prospects of the year were
Britian (Mr. Brougham), ott the Committee.— realised, it would amount to not less thati three
(Loud Itlnzsrifter.j—He was not admitted to say millions and a half. The conntry mini thereto's,
that Government could nut induce lout to vote fur look forward with just hope to an oinelioratiou
that. appointment. of its burdens, adoiving mill practical reonoiny,
Lord Mooorrif ,aid, lie could not flee on whit Una 1111illg that moldy fortitude for which the
fair ground the present tiro was oppoaetil. He iiilhilistatit* of this empire are so distinguished—
could not help observing, data it appeared to him they might look forwent to are the most severe and
ass nut one of the leant extraordinary effints made ill oppressive of the taxes repealed. Tit's reduction,
modern times to exclude • matt I' as inquiry, I suit doubt, would be imputed by the Right lion.
whom ei•ery one acknowledged possessed to much I Gentleman at the other side, to the excellent
useful intortitatioo, was in every way so efficierit, advice which lie kindly bestowed—advice which,
acid whose efiiiits would trail to public. good. he assured him, when it was useful, he would
Mr. MARRY are said he would oppose the mo- avail himself of. 'llse Government, he said,
tion, because tie thought that there were already too I made every retrenchment that could be node
many theoretical, and too few practical men inter- with safety to our domestic and foreign relations.
tering in the conduct of public affairs. They could not take upon themselves the respon-
Mr. IlanoBv .sal, the Hon. Geotlentan (Mr. sibility of reducing any of their establishments till
Martin) had thought fit to say. that a lawyer with- they clearly saw their way. Ai to the reductions in
out principle, end a divine without piety, write the army, he sated, that though the Committee
tint lit to be appointed On a Committee of the did not coatemplate so large a reductino, the
(louse.—(Cries of " Question! question .!") army wire reduced by is number of 31,567 men.
As to the Honourable and Learred Gentleman —Time Navy Estimate was at 100.000/. and
the reduction in the Ordnance amounted to a like
(Mr. Brougham). he was a law, r, not only of
great learitiog aud ability, hut in other respects "n• disbanding of troupe, he said, was in O-
live-eminently qualified to itivestigitte the subject self a source of expense ; there alwoya a tempo-
fur which tlw Committee had been apponted. It tory expense to pay for broken periods; it is not
had been said, that Gentlemen of the Oppoaion possible to reduce regiments at the same period, IW.
had not done their duty ;if the chorge were true,rt cause nutty Of them happen to be at remote dn.-
surely they ought now to retuedy the defect as tturces ; thus and various other 'causes induce at all
soon as passible. Hot. Gentleman, after *lmes, us it did at this time, a temporary expense to
a few words on the Ogli qualifications of Mr. Govertonent, but it is an expense which must crate
Brougham, sat dowin with the occaaiott, and cannot occur in future years.
The question was then loudly called for, awl the There was also as sum last year of four bundled
thousand pounds paid to Spain for the tamosent
Gallery 1/1141 cleared, when there appeared— of that power to the abolition of the Slave Trade.
Fur the Matitm
Against it
tirade in the army. litre he entered ion, the items
of reduction, whit!), in the whole, tarnipooted to
thirty-five thousand sod odd hundred writ. Ile
btated that a soot of 16,000,000. was allowsd for
for army and navy—but if it was recollectmot that
4,000,0001. of that turn were given in pro-sons
mud half-pay, to reward those brave men to whom
time country are so much indebted, sod who
would, be was convinced, isiways 'twelve the
inarka of public gratitude with cheerfultiess on the
port of' the peopl—these four millions would
reduce the actual sum from twelve to *lateen mul-
lions. 'llwae four millions would he willingly paid
to our gallant defenders by sea mid laud ; but
it was smnortant to recollect, that every year
moat net...nerdy reduce this sum. It was out a
permanent charge on the country, and it would not
be too much to say, that every year would reduce
it by 130,0001. His Lordship said, that having
stated what appeared to him material, he would
beg It, add one simple fact to chew the great
increase of conimerce. He would prove that in-
crease by the only sure test—the offivial succonots.
These are, in fact, rather on account of the quantity,
thou the value; rod from these it would appear,
that the present has heeo the greatest year in the
history of British cotionetre, nut excepting 1815.
which was considered all exception to ail established
rut les—a year which produced from 9 to 10,000,0001.
excess.—[Here he read the returtio.]-1.1 1815 the
official account of British produce amounted to
33,V31,0001. In 1816 there wan in great reductions—
t:toa,al.ooo,lo 00
18 /.181too
jo 3173.511,1e,0r0w0az iii
ut fell untroseto
ontl. 1, 1319,
judgoug fIUID what ins already passed, Intro the
great iticreaft of one mouth, it was but reasonable
to hope for a still granter increuae—an
in-
crease which promised to uphold far England
that pre-eminence fur public credit and commercial
greatness which she has long held in Europe.—
Arlie Noble Lord said, he would wall to coofine the
Members of the Committee to those who sat 4111 the
former Committee. to them the House and the
cuuutry were largely indebted. From time dip-
- of

. ileiotiti spinet the Molise 42
STATE OF THE 14ATION.
Lord CASTLERSAOH said, that in musing for a
(71,1111111 ii er IO inquire into the timincial state of the
coulitrv, the House would expect from hitn none
general outline, not only of the present state IS
our atfrirs, but of what Government had in con-
tri.ip:ation. The statement he should make would
lie ir. a very narrow ennipass ; lint hefore he went
into that ttitetitettt, he thought it right to say,
that lie did not thisok it would in future he ne-
cessary to tall for the animal appointment of a
Committee such as he would now 'wive for. In
submitting to the I louse, according to hi. concep-
tion, the state of the expenses of the country, he
felt happy, he said, to mitioulice that the expenses
of the country were within its income. The Report
of the Committer of Finance not mile states that the
expensesof the country err within it. Income. but dust
there is a very comitlvrable overislos ; that Co 11111 l it-
tre has furnished to the House the most satisfactory
and the most pleasing information of the present
financial state of the empire. The state of the re-
venue, ending January 1819. when compared with
reference to the ensuing quarter, would satisfy the
House of the progressive increase of the public re-
sources. In order to give a clear view of the sups
ject, he would state the income of the country.
lip to January 1819, the revenue amounted to
54,063,0001. ; the revenue of the preceding year
amounted to 51,665,00 u/. and thus leaving an in-
crease in the reseisue, from January 1818 to Ja-
nuary Isl 9, to the amount of 2,398,000/. But
the House would allow him to oKterve, that it
eppesra that out of the fifty-one millions six loin-
dred
and sixty-five thousand pounds, there were ar-
rears
of property tax, to the amount of two millions
three hundred and thirty-eight thousand 'room's;
slid after deducting those arrears, it reduced that
sum to forty-nine millions three hundred and
twenty-four thousand pounds; and the net improve-
ment of the permanent taxes for the year 1819. was
above four millions. There was, he Calif. a consi-
derable amount of sugar duly ar.ticipated iii 1818,
which should properly belong to 1819; sod theme-
fore it would he tithe to transfer the amount of the
sugar duty (buo,ooo/.) from 1818 to the year 1819.
If you compare, said he, the produce of taxes for
the year ending J.itsuary 1818, with the produce of
taxes fur the sear ending 1819, the account will

•.• .t. 5,.... :...

_ ....

tinny that have been mmle, and promising and io-
crensing tis were the reSOUrCell of the coma' y, lie
would tor his part be always wiling, where any sole
;sr practical retrenchment could he made, to adopt
it. He could not pledge himself for the prospects of
the future ; but they were promising, and hr relied
on the resources of the country, on the inthistiy,
the fortitude, and the perseverance of the people.
He hoped yet to see molly of the burdens which press
heavily on them at present, removed—sod to see those
springs of public loolrer.ty restored to their foil
.elasticity. ohich.lool berg overstrained in a war con-
tooted fur tale extstei.ceo.ni c:o!c!..d.it for nor glory.
Tor Nobler Lord sto,.:i, l'eAl o' *v.: Lis iii!v:;tiott
to propose the re-appiiiiti anent tit the former Com-
mittee, except with respect to the itatnes of two
individuals who were not
.Nleinbers of the present
liarliament, lie meant Sir Thomas Acland and
Mr. Robert Smith ; in the rcorw of t hese e,siit i,..
men lw would proio the 'lenses of Sir George 1111
and Mr. John Smythe. He concluded by motoos
for the apponitnient of a Committee to consider of
the state of the Expenditure of the Country, and
also to consider what was likely to be the probable
expenditure for the current year. The Noble
Lord alaq moved that the Committee do consist of
the following (Members :
Lord Csolereagls I The Chancellor of the Es.
Mr lisiikris chequer
Mr. Bootle Wilbraham Lord Biuning
Mr.llai • Dsvis Mr. Peet
Mr. Nicholson Calvert Sir George Clerk
Mr. Huskissou Mr. Frankland Lewis
Lord Clive Mr. Triminvile
Mu. Lyttelton Mr. Hotroril
Mr. Davis Gilbert Mr.). Smythe
Mr. Cartwright Mr. Calcratt
Sir George Hill Mr. Gooch.
On the motion being put from the Chair—
Mr. TlEttr4cY rose arid said, that from the no-
tice which the Noble Lord had given on a former
night, nobody could have imagined that it was his
intentton in merely moving for the renewal of a
Finance Committee, to have opened what was in
fact the Budget to the House. —(lfear.)—lf the
Noble Lord had had the candour to have announced
such to have been his intention, then Gentlemen
might have come prepared to meet him on the sub-
ject ; as it was, however, and -taken by surprise as
the House was, every Gentleman conversant in the
financial state of the country must merely on the
spur of the occasion make Such an answer to the
Noble Lord's statements, as his memory of facts
furnished. Ile recollected the appointment of the
last Finance Committee, and also the little
value he set upon their labours. If the. Finance
Committee did no more than receive the Noble
Lord's budget, as he delivered it in his speech, and
send it then bark again to the House in the shape
of 0 iteli.vrt, what possible good could he anti-
cipated from their labours ?—(thae../ft was idle
to expect any thing benefit al from the labours of
a Committee selected in this manner, and only
garnished with the names of a few independent
Members, jest to make the proceeding colourable.
The former Committee, in their Report, laid, they
were happy to find that Ministers adopted every
suggestion they gave. To he sure they did, for it
was the Government, in the first instance, gave the
sug4estion, and thEn the Committee had only to go
' 1 through the formality of rendering it hack aieati to
the quarter from whence it came.—(heir, hear.)
—A Finance Committee, really established to du
public good, should enter auto a general soil cottt-
prehensive inquiry, which embraced every depart-
ment in the State, with a view to the reduction ..11 all
useless expenditure it, each particular account ; but
all the former Committee did was to make gaudy
estimates of prospective savings, end to leave the
real question just as they found it. If a Committee
were formed like that in which the present Lord
Colchester once presided, or like that of Mr.
Batikes, then something might he expected in arise
from the appointment—then the lionge might de-
rive scone real good, instead of being merely treated
with budgets by anticipation. Eve,. of this last
merit the present Committee were likely to he di-
vested, for their budget by anticipation was in itself
anticipated—(/fear, Lear, awl laughter)—sod they
would only' have the credit of conveying back the
Noble Lo,d's speech in the shape of a Itepore_—
%%Thai the House arid the country really th•tri.(l o,ls,
an inquiry into the departments of the Revcime,
the Excise, the. Customs, the Stamps, for the
purpose 01' ascertaiiiing how far the expe...r: ..f
each could be curtailed and reduced. The Noble
Lord had given a very llourishiug state of the
commerce of the country ; into this statement he
(Mr. Tierney) could not follow him, for he had ii
the official documents to guide his steps ; but all
lie would say on this point was, that if the Noble.
Lord was right, all the merchants with ohnin he
(Mr. I'.) had conversed, and they were of the fist re-
spectability, and not politically connected, were eta-
tirely wrong. May not this tiouri.liing state have
been in no small degree effected by the operation of
the paper system, which created an artificial capital f
That the commeice of the country was iii a pro._
perous state, he fully believed; but ',lieu the Nulde
Lord said its flourishing trade was the admiration
of the world; lie could uuly in his turn admire the
Noble Lord's coctident declaration. As to the set:-
otantial increase iii the revenue, lie agreed wash toe
Noble Lord, and congratulated the noilht,y o! 111
it. But he wonted to get at what the Nillite Lord
really meant when he asserted that the last year lett
a surplus in favour of the comm.): of two minim,*
four or live hundred thousand pounds. The N Ide
LORI stoutly asserted that there was this build's.,
but he cantiously steered clear altogether of Ihe
Sinking Furol.—(ileur.)— Was that to be lust
sight of to the Noble Lord's tiontleinl rt•lo toe, or
was it to be merely reserved for a future OCia•SUa ?
He had also left out of view the old debt of three
millions and a half upon the Consolidat. d 17aiii.l.
Surely that ought to he peal and a balance struck
before a round sum of raving should be strocl..
What was the income min ex pendiiiire iii Iloilo of
fact, taking the onus in rotund numbers ? TI e
‘Vays nod Means of this year to meet the experoli-
ture were as follow :
The Land and Malt Tsars ri.rno.noo
3,:500,0mi
The War and Excise Duties
The Old Shires and Lotteries, about ••• • • . a 041,000
------

wit ...1...
r Juke
3 utter
S •gral

I

a 1818, tinct and clear view ul• the fiti.iiicial mate of
I the," the empire they had already given (which ""
Making a romad Total of 17,000,000
tOrI hr tint the lest to be retard hecriume it was MO.. This was the total available fund for the current
it 1619• deratr), and from the accurate knowledge they year,
seta for potsept, they are likely to throw the light of terest on Exchequer Billy, the Army, Navy, o.rt-
in meet the charges on the Sinking ruirit, ne-
tt
of truth and information upon the sititiject. His Lord- mince, end ether Departrnents,--(Hear, Isear.)--
'Jut will ship concluded by taxying, that great at the teduc- What was become of the million which was to be
- •"•r. . * - .