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London, England, 1808-01-23 00:00:00

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Copenhagen, would be advisable. Tie was sure
every Member of the House would concur in
an Address to His Majesty, merely expressive
of their cordial support, in a contest which
was arduous beyond example, and in which
every day new difficulties were arising. The
sole object of his rising was, to procure some
explanation from Ministers, upon some
sages in the Speech, which appeared utterly irre-
concilable with facts. They were told that His
Majesty, soon after the result of the negociation
of Tilsit was known, and the subsequent con-
trout of France over the powers of the Con-
tinent, was apprised of the intention of the
enemy to procure a confederation against us,
and specifically to secure the fleets of Den-
mark and Portugal, to favour his purpose. The
speech then stated, that it was the duty of His
Majesty to place those fleets out of the reach of
such Confederacy. Thus then stood the reason-
ing of the Speech. Now the treaty of Tilsit was
signed by Russia and France. upon the 7th of July,
and intelligence of it reached this country upon
the Bth of August. Upon the gtith of July Ad-
mind Gambier sailed from the Downs. It was
indeed possible that Ministers could have re-
ceived an account of the substance of the treaty of
Tilsit previous to its being made public, but he
could hardly think that it could have reached this
country within three weeks of the signature of that
treaty. This was a point he wished cleared
up, as he could not see that any allowance
Lad bean nanle in their calculation for the
necemmy preparation of embarking troops, and
preprang instruments for the bombardment of
9 Copenhagen • in short, he did not see how it was
posssible to be proved, that the news of this treaty
had actually reached this country, previous to the
fitting out that expedition. The Speech from the
Throne was not merely calculated to meet the in-
spection of Parliament, but it was likely to be
read every where as an Act of Government. It
would find its way to the Continent of Europe, where
Omit will be taken to pieces, and combated, point by
point, by the writers favourable to Bonaparte, and
they would net fail to remark upon the iiicongruity
of British Ministers. The impropriety of their
conduct would there be set in the strongest light.
and therefore this ought to be, in the iniuds of po-
liticians, a serious consideration. Ministers, by
their conduct, seem to have banished from their
minds that maxim in philosophy, that cause pro-
duces effect; for, in the present instance, it ap-
peared that the effect produced the cause—Den-
mark having gone to war with as, in consequence
of our unprovoked aggression.
- - •

Mr. HERBERT observed, that it would have
been proper, before Ministers involved us in other
wars, they should think whether the cause of them
lied been just. He might approve of their con.
duct as to Copenhagen completely, when further
information was laid before the 'House, but with
only such facts as those that had hitherto been
stated, he could not possibly acquiesce in that part
of the Address which implied a tacit acknowledg-
, ment of the propriety of their proceedings, and on
that account he should wish, that that part of it
should be left out. NVith regard to the question
of peace or war, it had been said, that because
we lave a roost triumphant navy, and are at
war with all, the Continent, this is not the hour
• to wrier TIM M • firr.trilr Tait, teelfver, he did

fealty believe, that this was the moraeht, above
all others, when it was both our interest and
our duty to try to procure it ; it being recol-
lected that we had been no less than fifteen years
engaged in an arduoas course, of warfare. lie
was sole that the people of this country now ar-
dently long for it, and he believed too, that the
inhabitants of the Continent were also completely
tired of war. +le was convinced that we might
have had peace long ago, bad effectual means been
adopted to obtain that. great and most desirable
object ; and he did hope and trust, that His Ma-
jesty's !Ministers, whatever may have been their um-
titer in omitting any ardent expressions for its at-
tainment, earnestly wished it to Le restored to their

coantry.
-Mr. YORKE rose, and expressed his conviction
Of the veracity of the statement of Ministers, with
respect to the information they bad received of the
disposition of the Court of Denmark, and the dan-
gerous designs of the enemy on that power. Re
felt with them equal regret in being compelled
to adopt hostile measures to a power hitherto united
to Great flritain in the strictest amity. Yet this
feeling was not without some mixture of satisfac-
tion, in finding that since we were compelled to
bike such steps, the enterprise had proved as suc-
cessful as our most sanguine expectatious could
have devised. He had heard inuch said on the
deficiency of information in the detail given by

the Minis.`ry to the House in their kishtication.
Whatever information mold be gieen, he was
satisfied had been afforded the House, and the con-
duct of the Ministry had the support of established
cwitinn, and the advantage of numerous prece-
dents, under former administrations. Under car-
. curnstances of this nature, the King had been
known to exercise his premirative, in declaring im-
mediate war, and the Parliament, without any spe-
cific information, had proceeded, on the confidence
they entertained of the fidelity of the Ministry, to
procure the supplies necessary for the maintenance
of hostilities. Information of this nature, he was
apprised, was extremely difficult to obtain, in
pro the same proportion it was valuable. The
oonduct of the Government, was, therefore,
such as every friend to his country, every friend to
sacred engagements, must undoubtedly approve.—
He was of opinion, that improvident grants of pa-
pers respecting negociations abroad, and finance at
home, had been productive of incakulable mis-
chief to the country, in displaying to the • neiny the
Ministerial adjustment of the affairs of the nation.
The furnishing the House with the details of the fai-
lure of tb! expedition to the Port of Toulon, had
deprived the then Ministry of a source of secret
. information Nhich England had powiessed since the
reign of Queen Anne. The Hon. Gentleman,
who had se pathetically described the distresses of
the aiannfacturers of Yorkshire, should beware,
kst„ by excitingcomplaints, he nii,4ht finally occa-
sion such a revolution in the state of things, as
might place, finally, a French Csenvral in his own
Vie, and subject the whole country to the dr.-ed-
ema sabjngation !of French militar, despotism—
With respect to the gladiola of ri‘ilit and policy,
it mast appear evident to every man, that there

bad been exhibited the clearest proofs of collation
between theCeurts of Denmark and France. He'
observed, Denmark was herself conscious of her
weakness, and had even admitted, on a former oc-
casion, that she had been compelled to shut the
Sound, in consequence of the iniperious tone of the
French Government. The Opposition had argued
so long on the abstract principles of right, that
they finally concluded they alone understood them,
and then accused the Ministers of having no know-
ledge of any other theory than the abstract prin-
ciples of wrung, which they had of course uui-
formly reduced to practice, throughout the whole
range of their official measures. The contrary
was the truth. The Ministry had not sent cut an
expedition with instructions to plunder and
destroy the Danish nation ; but had sent
merely an armed legation to treat of an alli-
ance, if it could have been effected pacifically, but
ultimately to secure to this country, even by force,
the great desiderata's' of the British people, na-
tional security. They, he maintained, had acted
on the most generally admitted principles of action
among mankind, though the Gentlemen opposite
had so eagerly laboured to confound the principles
of abstract right and justice, with those of political
and practical right and justice. The principles of
their conduct were solely those of self-preservation,
principles which require but little argument to
elucidate, and less to effect a conviction of the
expediency of their adoption. In such a case, he
observed, had he been a Dane, he should have felt
no objection in trusting the fleet to the fidelity of an
ancient ally. He was anxious for peace, on one ex-
press condition, that it should be secure he believed
France willing to come to terms—(Loud cries of
hear ! /tear ! from the Oppositiou side)—we might
immediately have a specious, but seductive peace.
But if such should be ratified, ha maintained our
ruin was inevitable. We must treat on principles
of perfect equality, or not at all. He concluded
with deprecating the spirit which had prompted
the people of Yorkshire to petition, at this very
critical moment, for the conclusion of peace, which
could only tend to embarrass the Councils and
decisions of His Majesty's Ministers.
Mr. WIN DHA3I agreed on the principles laid
down by the last Speaker, respecting the condi-
tions of a lasting peace. Ail •he could desire,
though he bad beard much said as to the preser-
vation of our national honour in concluding peace,
1 was solely and exclusively safety ; he would say of
1 honour, as the Poet says of genius—

" Groat ow T. Fates, bat snowy seal rhyme,
" 11l leave ;right Gains to some oiler
On the grand question of moral right and justice,
he, however, differed widely from the Hun. Gentle-
man. Great in magnitude as was the question of
our conduct to Deuinark, it shrank into insignifi-
cance when contrasted with the importance of the '
principles on which we had attempted a justification
of this expedition. We, he said, had left all the old
morality of our forefathers, and arrived at a new
epoch in principle. We must act in future as a
rench Convention, " Virtatentrerbusi." Ex-
pediency or convenience must be the future cri-
terion of the
.propriety of our conduct to other
nations, enemies or allies. This, he continued,
will he an easy way to dispense with our provisional
morality, with as little compunction as with an
oath taken at Highgate. Here the fact peeceded
the doctrine 0r the Miuistry. He should, he said,
hare telt less irdi4iiicaon at hearing them boldly
avow their reasons, whatever they might have
been, than hear them attempt tojuatify their un-
warrantable outrages, by referring to the secret
articles of Tilsit, of which they had admitted they
knew no more tl an hod been already transmitted
to the public. Had they first committed the out-
rage, and then Ciscovered this " salco" for the
conscience of the nation ? or, was it only a mere
conscientious adherence to the old principles of
their party ? "Yes ; stick to our principles," raid the
Ministry; " if we ilepart in one instance from them,
we shall act hotel inslp, and ruin all ; let us die
game. if the country expire in character and re-
sources, we have dune every thing for her, con-
sistent with our well-known principles of action ;
she could expect no more." Thus, he observed,
had the moral character and honour of the British
nation been sacrificed by the ambition of the Mi-
nistry in appearing to Act with vigour. He con-
tended against the probability of the Danes hav-
ing entered into the confederacy against England
prior to our expedition sailing, as they had, from
the very dates admitted by the Right Honourable
Secretary on the last night, no opportunity of
being influenced by the conclusion of the treaty of
Tilsit. This rather (he said) countenanced an
idea, that the Ministry had not originally destined
the troops and armament for this expedition ; but
having once arranged an armament, they only
longed for an opportunity of displaying their vi-
gour, and determined to find out an enemy to as-
sail, and an expedition for the employment of this.
armament. If such had been their conduct, surely
they had given a vital blow to the enure of justice
and pledged faith throughout the globe. Such
had been the new principles arising out of the chaos
of the French revolution. Such had been the
principles -which had reduced all Europe to a
state of desolation.
Mr. MONTAGUE supported the King's right
to make war; and justified the Ministers in calling
on the Parliament to support His Majesty in prose-
cuting it.
Mr. WM. SMITH supported the statement of
Lord Milton last night. He had hoped Ministers
would spontaneously enter into terms of treaty with
France: in this conviction he had opposed the
Meeting at Norwich ; but should he find them dis-
inclined to prosecute peace on fair and equal terms,
he should do his utmost to procure their removal
from power and place.
Mr. Secretary CANNING admitted he had only,
apparently to him, satisfactory reasons for con-
cluding Denmark inclined to enter into the views
• of FrarJe. The Ministry had only obtained the
substance of the designs of Denmark, but pap-
, sensed nothing ostensible as proofs, either direct, or
in writing. Ile admitted the expedition had been
originally intended for Stralsund, but was of opi-
nion this did not derogate from the merits of the
expedition. He concluded by saying, he felt no
anxiety for that applause of which the Right Hon.
Gentleman seemed to think be and his colleagues
were so extremely desirous.
M-. WHITBREAD remarked the inconsistency

of the Right lion. Secretary's arlutission this eveti.
ing, and his assertions in 4 the source.etl
their secret *utforrnatiess ornerPreceding
lie *as inclined to maintain, that more hair had
been done to the country, within these fifteen veer-,
by the suppression of intelligence, than could bete
arisen from even betraying those secrets to •the
enemy. He thought the present Petition for Pence
would prove no embarrassment to the Ministers, if
sincere in the wishes for Peace, and wished they
might increase an hundred-fold, so its to compel
them either to resign their places or thiir preju,
dices in favour of eternal war.
The report was then brought up Iwo' read ; MIA
Mr. 1111.1SKISSON moved, That the Speech
of the Lords Commissioners be taken into estsikide-
ration again on Monday next."—Ordered.
The House then adjourned to Monday neat.

FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE.