The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1819-05-21 00:00:00

Majority against the ntotion

COAL DUTIES.
Mr. Home Somalia said, that in rising to
make Ins present manor, he felt as anxiously
as any one for the revenue of the State, but
that revenue should be fairly mid equally levied.
—His constituents complaiued of burdens be-
yond their resources, and in this case most
unequal and unfair. In modern days the duty
on coals were made a source of public revenue.
As early, lie said, as the reign of Richard 11. in the
year 1571). a duty was laid on coals to defray the
expenses of BM armament for that Monarch, to re-
sist piratical depri datums. In the second year of
Charles I. a petition was presented from the people
of Newcastle and Cumberland, praying fur protec-
tion from pirates, and aixpence per chaldron on
coals was levied to defray the expenses of an arma-
ment for that purpose. During the USurpation, a
further duty was laid on, and in the reign of Wil-
liam, a duty of ss• per chaldron was added. in the
reign of Anne there was a duty laid on of Os. per
chaldron, and in the time of George the First, and
in the beginning of the reign of his present Ma-
jesty, a further duty on coals was imposed of Is. 4d.
per chaldron. Ile said the duty on coals imported
into London, amounted in the whole to 9s. 10d. per
chaldron. This was, he said, an enormous duty
on an article of the first necessary of life. A great
authority (Doctor Adam Smith), had said that fuel
was a prime necessary of life, particularly in cold
countries; it was necessary for dressing victuals,
anti for performing work within doors. The Hon.
Gentleman proceeded at some length to teed an
extract from the works of Adam Smith. He did
not, he said, seek for any repeal of the duty on
coals, further than the parliamentary duties.—
The operation of the parliamentary tax on coals
has been, that four counties were compelled to pay
a yearly revenue of above five hundred and thirty
thousand pounds; sixteen counties, three hundred
and seventy-seven thousand pounds ; and the re-
maining twenty no duty whatever, and these con-
taiuing some of the most populous towns in the
kingdom. The result was, that four millions and
a half of the population paid a duty on this article
of eight hundftd and eighty-five thorissud pounds
—two millions and half, only twenty thousand—
and the remaining four millions and a half no duty
whatever.—/Hear, hear.)—lt was urged as an ar-
gument for continuing this impost on London and
the adjacent districts, that the wages of the labour-
ing class there bore so much greater a proportion
to those in the rest of the kingdom, that they were
able to bear it. In answer to this he shouid say,
that admitting the fact to be so. their other expenses
were far ,Treater, the price of the other necessaries
of life being so much higher in the metropolis.
Even on fuel, in addition to the duties he had de-
scribed, the poor of the metropolis in fact were
subject to a further one of 41 1. a week a head, by
being obliged to purchase it from week to week.
The Honourable Member who had first brought
the subject forward in the present Sessi iiiii had
thrown out hints of an intention to move for an
equalization of the duty all over the kingdom.
His own private opinion was, that a tax on coals
was worse than one on any other article of consump-
tion except bread, and therefore lie had resolved to
make a proposition for nothing short of the general
repeal of the duty. The Hun. Member who lad
intitulted such a design should have been bitter
acquainted with the feelings of the manufacturirig
part of the country, and the constitution of that
House. lle bhmilil have been aware. that by pro-
posing to extend the tax on coals to the parts of
the country where the manufactures were princi-
pally carried on, he would raise a hog of enemies
in the manufacturers and their friends in the
House and out of the Howie, and that a
load of Petitions would be poured into the
House against sur li a measure. Various Peti-
tions had, indeed, been presented from such
quarters, though the arguments used in them
were better than any he could devise in support of
his own Bill, and lie had accordingly made some ex-
tracts from them, which he should beg leave to read.
The Hon. Member then read part of the Petition
of Mr. Crawahaw, representing the impolicy of
imposing a tax on an article of universal consump-
tion, which, it added, would produce an over-
whelming pressure on the mainspring of the manu-
factures. The manufactures in and about London,
Mr. Sumner proceeded, were thus altogether left out
of the question, and their rubmission to unequal tax-
ation for so long a time was made an argument for an
indefinite continuance of it. But if there was any
truth in the argument. that a duty of Is. or Is. fid.
a chaldron would do so much mischief in the coun-
ties where coal was most easily obtained, boy
much more force was there in it when applied to
the vastly greater duty on London and Surrey ?
The Petition from Birmisigliam alleeed that laying
on a general duty would add to the already exist-
ing universal pressure and distress, and the Peti-
tioners apprehended that if the high tax on coals

imported into the port of London were taken
off, it would cause the great tnenufactureti to be
transferred from their present seats. But this was
a principle which he was sure the House would
lint recognize or sanction—that because one set
Of men had established manufactories in the vici-
nity of coal-mines, where, consequently, that ar.
tick could he had on the cheapest terms, that was
to he a reason for keeping, up a partial and/
vice duty on another body of people situated at a
greater distance from the mines, and compelled
to convey their coals at a heavy expense. The
Honourable Gentleman then read passages from
other Petitions. to the same effect, and describing
the impolicy of putting a duty on a raw material.
He hoped he had said enough. to shew that the evil.
was of such magnitude as to require the interfe-
rence of the House. He wished it to be under.
stood, that he did not mean his Bill should extend
its operation to Scotlaud, that part of the empire
having some time since made an exchange oti the
duty in question for one on spirits. He should
only further observe, that lie had thought it a duty
he owed his constituents to call the attention of the
House to this subject, and to put it to the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, whether it would not be
wise and just to substitute another tax for that on
coal. ? What his constituents principally felt and
complained of its the ditty, was it, pressure on the
poor, and its partiality. He believed so portion of
the community wits at all times inure ready to con-
tribute a due and equitable proportion to the wants
of the State, than the iiiliabitants of the county of
Surrey. The Hon. Member then moved for leave
to bring oi a Bill to repeal the several Acts now in
force imposing duties on coals sea-borne or carried
coastwise, together with so much of the Act 39
Gen, 111. Hs made such duties perusauently payable.
Lord EBRINGTON rose to support the motion.
His Hon. Friend had gone so ably and at such
length into the general question of the impolicy of
the duties on coals, that he should confine his ob-
servations to its effects on the county he had the
honour to represent (Devout), and adjacent county.
The duties on coals in Devon and Cornwall last
year amounted to near sixty thousand pounds, and
this impost was paid at twelve ports. The con-
sumption of coal in Devonshire was confined to a
small part of it comparatively it was chiefly among
the higher classes, and that part of the population
residing near the sea ports. This was a conse-
quence of the high price of that article : the
same cause operated to depress the manufacto.ies,
and prevent their establishment. A china mama-
facture was set up some time sour at Ply-
month, but the difficulty of procuring coals caused
it to be abandoned—another manufactory of
coarser ware was undertaken afterwards, and also
on the same account given up. All who were
acquainted with the west or England knew that
the only manure lit for the soil of Devonshire was
lime..-lime was not to be haul without fuel, so that
the high price of coal had a directly injurious effect
on agriculture and the improvement of land. In
making these observations, lie did not entertain
a sanguine hope that this or any other tax would lie
given up in the present distressed situation of the
country, though lie certainly had in the early part
of the Session, when the Noble Lord (Castlereagh)
had drawn so flattering, though as it now appeared
fallacious, picture of the finances and prosperity of
the empire.
Mr. LITTLETON did not wonder that the Mem-
ber for Surrey (Mr. H. Sumner) sl.nuld have taken
the course be dud, considering the inttreid his coil.
stituents had in the question. But at a time when
the only question was, how the revenue could be
augmented, he did not imagine the House would
agree to his motion. The repeal of the duties, he
argued, would produce it general revulsion through
the country. It would he most injurious to those
who embarked a large portion of i;.eir capital on the
faith of Parliament in iron manufactories. It was
doubtful whether the benefits expected world ac-
crue to the City of London from the repeal of the
duties, for he apprehended the proprietors of mines
in the north would he too co tttt it ig for it, and pot
five not of the six shillings a chaldron in their
own pot Lets. Ile thought the Hon. Mover was
nut borne out in his statement, that twenty col:mita
paid no duty whatever. Gloucester, Oxford, and
other large towns, were Slitlatril iii these, soul he
would venture to say. that inland coal was tree-pettily
at a higher price in these than sea-bon's coal its
Lou-
don. The Hon. Member then argued that the alleged
difference of price in coal at London and Birmiiig-
ham, was sufficiently accounted fur by the superior
quality of the former, without any other circum-
stance. The wow:6'l'ol efforts of the Committee
at Tom's Coffee-house had only caused sixty Pe-
titions to be sent loth the House, and Westminster
had not petitioned, nor held any meeting oil the
subject. He thought it most advisable, though it
might appear tincouttrous, to oppose the to ingiog
in of the Bill,
Alderman WOOD said, that instead of coals
being made dearer in the counties where the coal
mines were situated, by a general tax of a shilling
a chaldron, they would he rendered cheaper to the'
consumer, because the Newcastle coals would then
be brought to the market there, which would of
course cause a reduction in the price. He did not
much care whether they would take off the tax from
his constituents, but let them go there, anal put six-
pence a chaldron on them.—( LatugLfer.)—lle did
not see why the Chancellor of the Exchequer should
have favoured Wales so much in preference to Corn-
wall and other places, and he hoped that as their ex-
emption from taxation had been extruded only to
Int, it would then be allowed to expire. If the
duty on sea-borne coals were taken off, Iliistol
(which he must acknowledge, though not on this
occasion, was usually very sharp-sighted where its
interest was concerned) would have coals five shil-
lings a chaldron cheaper. Lowering and making
the tax general, would increase the consumption.'
The inspection of people's books was a thing never
thought of by the advocates of change. He thought
a tax of a shilling a chaldron at the pee mouth,
might easily, like other rates, be collected on the
oath or the proprietor.
Colonel Woop observed, the worthy Alderman
told those who resided its the crud counties, that a
wit or Is. a chaldron laid on at the pies month
would make that article cheaper, but they would
rather have them cheap in their own old way.—(A
laugh.)—The same Member had said it good deal
*boat the partiality of the Chancellor of the Fx-
cheqxer to Wahcp, am) that he did out unde;statid

why that part of England in particula► should be
relieved from the payment of the tax. But he did
not seem to understand the real state of the case.
He (Colonel Woud) could tell him, that the duty
was not token off generally, but only off stone-coal
a coal which would not be used in London, which
was fit only for the burning of lime, a thing of
such importance in agriculture; and when the pres-
sure on the poor was at the highest pitch there, the
Chancellor of the Exchequer took off a part of the
daty to encourage their employment, and iit the
same tune assist the agricultural interests. The
question was at first brought forward under the
name of equalisation—a tax of ts. • chaldron
throughout the kingdom was said to he a mere
trifle;•, but he feared if U. a chaldron were once
collected, it would soon be thought an easy :natter
to double it, and that no one cou►d see the end of
the additions to it. Then a repeal was proposed,
and he understood the Member for Surrey had a
very good substitute to produce; but he also ap-
peared to be a little distrustful of the Chancellor
of the Exchequer—he seemed afraid to mention
his plan, lest the Right Hou. Gentleman should
both seize on it, and keep up the coal duty
also. --(A laugh.)--The Member for Surrey
said, the removal of the duty would be very gra-
tifying to his constitnents. He also could men-
tion a duty, the diminution of which would afford
great pleasure and relief to 101 rionstitrients.—(4
laugh.)—For instance, he could state that a miti-
gation of the tax on salt, an article of general con-
eumption--(4 laugh)—would give universal satis-
faction to all the poor of the kingdom. He could
mention another—(" ho neore,"fr.on some Member
whose name we were unable to discover, and a laugh)
—he could mention the duty on caudles, which fre-
quently caused their vallies to he swept by excise-
men, the gross amount of which was 300,000/.
while its collection cost 50,0001. Every day ,hewed
that they had begun at the wrong end ; they had
taken the pressure oft' their own shoulders and left
it on those of the poor. He was one of those who
lie 4 voted against the repeal of the Income Tax,
in ell'ecting which the City of London had taken
a very active part. though if they hail looked at
the various petty imposts that weighed doe•n the
lower orders. and procured the abolition of some
of them, they would have done much more good
to their country. Even now he could nut help
thinking that a property, not an income tax,
would, in the circumstances of the country,
he a desirable mea•ute.---(/liar, bear, from
the Ministerial Benches.)—la the mountains of
Wales, the only mode of employment open to the
labouring class was working at the iron factoroes ;
a tax of is. a chaldron would advance the price of
that article 20s. a ton, and nobody could foresee
what might be the consequences. A Petition from
the Lord Mayor of London had been spoken of.
l.et the Lord Mayor construe the words " sea-
borne" as all other persons did, and he would
have coals cheap enough. But whether they were
►rut from Newcastle or from Staffordshire—whether
they arrived through the pout or up the Thames, all
coals carried to London were, in the construction of
1114 1,0111111110. sea.borne.—( A laugh.)—Nay, the
port of London was held to reach 20 miles westward
up the Thames, all the way to a great stone erected
in the river, nobody could tell for what reason, or
how long since.—(Laughter.)—The City Members
knew this well, because two years ago, when they
heard a cargo of coal was coining from the west, a
Custom-house officer was instantly dispatched to
the great stone, where lie had remained ever since,
Langhtes)—the cargo was turned hack, and never
made appearance. He hoped the Members for
Slurry would toot think it wrong in his giving the
Bill his decided negative at this early stage.
Merman Woon explained.
Mr. CUSIRTNNAT supported the motion.—The
question, he observed, was, whether the House
could agree, with propriety, in the motion of his
Hoe. Friend ? In his opinion they ought to sup-
port it. It had been said, that an equalization of
the tax would be a very extraordinary mea►ure.
He did not think it was so—and lie would vote for
the motion of his Hon. Friend, in the hope that,
if it were carried, it would oblige the Chancellor of
the Exchequer to look round, and devise Home
mode ilof rendering the operatiou of this tax more
equal.
Lord MILTON said, he had expected that some
of his Majesty's Ministers would have stated the
view which Government had taken of this question,
instead of leaving the burden of the debate on those
who looked at it in a variety of lights. It must be
evident, that if this tax were taken off, the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer must introduce another
its place—and, in his opinion, it was for the Hon.
Mover to skew, first, that ►he new tax was likely
to be less onerous than that which now existed—
and. next, that the taking all the coal duty
would operate with equal benefit in every part of
the country, The Hon. Alderman (Wood) had
spoke►t in favour of an equalization of the tax—but
1w had no doubt that the placing a tax on coals
throughout the country would be extremely in-
jurious. Some years ago, it was proposed by a
Noble Friend of his (sanctioned, he believed, by
the Chancellor of the Exchequer), to impose a tax
on pig-iron. It was considered a very impolitic
OICISOfe, sod was in consequence either lest or
withdrawn. Now, if it were considered injurious
to tax pig-iron, how much more impolitic would it
he to tax coal, by which pig-iron was produced %
The conduct of the City of London was not quite
so pure on this occasion as Gentlemen might wish
the country to suppose. This was evuleot Iron. the
fact—that, while the City of London was anxious
to have the parliamentary duty removed, it was in-
tends(' still to keep up the local duty, which was
applicable to the expenses of the Corporation,
(11ear.)—Under all the citcurustences of the case
lie should oppose the motion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXIIIEQUER said, that
he 11;0 not remained silent on account of any un-
willingness to state his opinion ou this subject.
which, in tact, lie had made known on former oc-
casions. He thought, that it would have been
much better, if the question had been suffered to
aitik altogether—for lie conceived it was very un-
wise to eg.nste a subject of this kiiid, which could
not but excite a great sensation throughout the
country, when there was no prospect whatever of
the duly being removed.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—
At the present moment. when the expenditure of
the country was vu considerable, Gentlemen bught
to pause befo;e they brought forward measures, the

object of which was, to decrease those resourrfs,
which it was absolutely necessary to
(Hear, hear.)--The HOll. tVleinber for Surrey
had stated, that this tax was of very ancient origin
—that it might be traced so far hack as the ►eight
of Richard 1.1. This was very true--end, in his
opinion, the circumstance of the duty having been
borne without complaint fur so today years, was
a very strong reason for trying it for some Ulm!
longer.—One point oii-2ht not to h• overtook,d,
namely, that great relief• had ribearly been grained,
with reference to this tax. lii the year 1814 oils
were G 24. a chaldron ; 1 Its. war-tax 11.141 been talteooff,

and they were now as low as 48.. bring a reduction
of 149. Considering the peculiar sitmoinn of tie,
country, lie conceited it would he highly idipniale
to repeal the tax—and. on the other hand,
equalizatimi cf the duti.s woull hive the effect of
discouraging their manufactures.
Mr. LANISTON. said, lie had heard with;;rest
fret, though certainly not with surpn-e, the deter.
initiation of the Chancellor of the Exchequer not
to agree to the reveal of this most ovpressive tax—
tipt only, it appeared, did lie mean to refuse the
relief now claimed, hut lie coritemplited the levy.
lug of fresh totes on the people. in a period of pro.
found peace.—( Hear, hear.)—He and his fneuds
would most steadfastly oppose the introduction of
new taxes. lie knew not whether the House would
or would. not support them—he knew not isheth.,
their opposition would be successful—hot they
would, at all erects, have the consolatory re(V.tt,....
that they had di.charied their duty.—(llear.)
The Hon. Member (Colonel Wood) had made a
very facetious speech, on a very grave subject.
Like an Hon. Member (Mr. Marryatt) who, on a
former evening, made several observations on the
price of tallow—the gallant Colonel had entered
intO a dissertation on tallow-candles. He hoped

the similarity would not end here, hut OA,
the Hon. Member to whom he had alluded,

gallant Colonel having 'made his speech. .‘oulik
quit the House without voting.—(Hear, hear./—
He had entertained the House with a supposed
bull made by the City of London, in denorninatiog
coals on the *Paddisigton Canal, sea-borne—hut the
expression was correct, as coals brought horn New-
castle to the Thames were, by a branch of the
Grand Junction Canal, conveyed to Paddington.
The House were next a:ninied by the gallant Co.t
!cruel with the history of the great stone in the
River Thames. lie statedkthat a Custom-house
officer was sent down to this stone fur the purpose
of preventing a cargo of Welsh coals front bring
introduced into the port of London. The coos..
quence was, the vessel returned, nod the whir.
tunate officer remained ever since at his post—
" !ache Theseus sedit et semperque sededit."
—(Hear, bear.)—But really the subject was of
too much importance to be trifled with in Cu., vi-ly.
In consequence of the heavy duty payable o;, sta.
borne coals, those carried by canals were preferred
whenever they r:ould be procured. Th.: conra 4uence
was, that a great number of vessels were thrown out (
of employment, and thus the principal nurlery for
seamen was disrouraged. They Lad heard from )
the Hon. Member (Col. Wood) the reatoois which
caused the tax on coals in Wales to be removed:—
arid they knew, that, in 1759, it had been repeole.l
with respect to Scotland. Why, he asked, was
this boon withheld from England and Irelesid!
Three hundred and fifty thousand tons of cua:
were annually imported into Ireland—and, in leis
opinion, that far nor which was shown to Wales,
should be extended also Ireland. %%lira they Cos.
aidered the impoveri..hed state of tire people of this
country, surely it was right this% this hums sliouhl A
be bestowed un them. Day after day they sor 1
charitable societies formed to supply the poor aria
coals, either gratis or at a cheap rate. Rut surely
1 moire good would be effeeted by repealing the
tax than could ever be derived front the beiltio-
lent assistance of the charitable and well-disposed. 0
I It was a most extraordinary circumstance that tli;4
tI article should be taxed in places to which it wiis
! brought at a great expense and with conaiderabli,
difficulty—but that it should he free from impost,
where it could he procured with scarcely nil troy-,
jble. This surely was not the liberal principle on
: which taxation should be founded—but he coald
point out many instances where the swine de-
; feet was observable. It was said, that the
Income Tax did not sflict the ii,nir—but, set-
I ting a side its inquisitorial operation and the era-
ation with which it visited persons of confined
1 income—leaving these considerations out of the
question, lie would maintain that it was a lax,
1
which, if not directly, did indirectly, press on thrill.
since it prevented those persons from einployins.:
them, who, if it were not in ecstence, wouhi
have possessed the means as they really posersard
the inclination. If ever that detest Ale impost w,
j introduced, he would humbly, but as firmly as he
could, express his abhorrence of it.—(lleuri hear-)
1 If it were brought forward again (notwithemidirig
the taunts of the lion. Member (Colonel %Varela
I who said that the tax bad been repealed, iii orderle
that the incomes of the rich should be spared. isla
the poor were oppressed, u sentiment which he *xi
astonished to
do itshears duty,and •
loudlyo
the pr
,lielurloitt:oh:
House
with the indignation it deserved.—(/Tear./
Colonel WGOD. In explanation, said, lie had et.
pressly recommended a property, and not an ty
come tax.
Mr. I)icattraoN opposed the principle which.
many Geotterneu had expressed themselves in layout
of, that of a tax on coals at the pit's-urout It. I)r4
Gentler:nett recollect that such a tax would ali,et
every person, of every description. iu the courses'
It would he worse Orin that odious tax which rlo•
graced their history, caned the Poll-Tux. The
latter only affected persons who had arrived at the
age of puberty, while a tax on coals at the nit's•
mouth would affect every man, woman, and child, la
the country. The Hon. Member then censured, la
strong terms, the part taken by the City of Lead,
on this question, and concluded I.ty expressing lei
determination to vote against the motioa.
Mr. W. SMITH said, the question might, in is
opinion, be reduced to a very short issue. It ,at
merely whether an article which was U111)1114:,1".1
with any !air, in a great part of the country, shoal':
be subject to a heavy impost ip particular pieces.
It might he said, that if this tax were removed. t!
would impair the revenue—but he took aver) rlit-.
ferent view of the subject, and was firmly conviiic,d
that the prosperity of the country would be focus'•
ed by the repeal, and that, in the same propornuer

the resources of the empire would be benefited.
la col tticirring this measure, two questions pre.
rented themselves -first, whether the bounties
which nature intended for the advantage of man,
aught not to be enjoyed to the fullest pnioable
Weld ? and next, whether, if particular blessings
were more plentiful in one place then another, the
rommonieation of-that benefit ought to he previ..ited
by oppressive and burdensome imports ?. Ile concei v.
it easy to prove the affirmative of the fi, and
the to te of the...Tow:l proposition. H rst
e should,
thrrrfwe. vote for the motion.
Mr. 51114.1.4111 rose amitht loulimd cries or " gone
!" He expressed his astoui-ent that the No-.
t, Lord, the Member for Donegal, should en-
deavour to prevent him from &nig his duty to his
emeoilnents be the clamour be had rsised.—(or-
ar ! order would not, however, be deterred
bj el„sme,-.lllrder ! order ! received
fietitiens from all parts of the county lie represtited
protesting against any equaliption, or alteration in
Ow coal duties. lie deprecated soy diminution of
she resources of the country, At the present rao.

sans
gi•
alouniCitattLes and Mr. Wavcitwatt rose
oie sane time, amidst cries of " Order !" and
(Isexiin* !" A r length
L,r.l llotsiTCwaiit,ss obtained • hearing. lie
ash afier thi- personal ollusion that had been made
him, as Member for Donegal, by the Roil.
/4"..!:ilier who hail just down, he felt it necessary to
„peak t order. Ile would not trespass on the time
of the House—but, as the Hon. Member's conduct
was evidently unparliamentary, hr did expect that
he would make nit apology to the Honee.—(llear.)
Mr.SINCLAIR, as we understood, said he did nut
Conceive he was out of order.—(Hear, hear! Or-
der. efikr
SP•A)tER {Sid. the lion. Member roust be
aware, if he conceived. at any tune, that he was
iiiteropted by any imlitidual Member, or any
number of Members, lie ought to address himself
to the House and the Chair, and not make any per-
sonal ulluoinn. Under these circumstances he
would see that he was wrong in the appeal he hod
insde.—/ cur. J
Siso.Atli said he did not wish to make per-
sonal allusions-- but the clamour was so great, and
lie was so anxi, tis t . state the sentimeuts of his can-
stotiebts, that he had, perhaps, been betrayed into
inadvertency. e trefore was r.ittly to make
every apology in his power to its. House. —(Heor.)
Aidrrniin WAITHM•N expressed his ostonisii-
mem at the attack mode by an Hon. Member (Mr.
Dickinson) on the City of Loudon. without the
s salon of reason. These attacks seemed to he re-
saoyed as witticistos—hot they were so often made
ow of I.oely, that, lie feared. they would WWI be-
come so as to be no longer palatable to the
(louse. The City of London, however it might
he sneered at, had been ever foremost in acts of
liberality and generosity. It hail come forever.]
most liberally, when the necessities of the coun-
try were extremely pressing. It was there that
11. e Pmperty Tax originated—aid he was most
11,1,1,y to ~,,y, that it war there the Omitting-stroke
was given to that iniquitous measure. The Hoii.
Aldermaa then argued, that the peculiar situation
nt the Uoy of Loudon called for the repeal of the
...al tax, awl concluded with expressing his
hearty assent to the motion.
Mr. ELLItt; onnirorteti the motion—which, at
we understood, was opposed by Mr. WiLmor.
Mr. I'ItOTHEROg, in reply to what had fallen
from en Mot. Member. tleilirtl that the citizens of
Bristol were more particularly attached to their
men iistereso, at opposed to those of the country in
eneral. thou the inhabitants of other parte of the
ugd an. The people of Bristol had presented a
Petition against the equalization of the coal duties,
because they felt it would injure the interests of the
manisfactonng classes; but he came to the House
sivitructed by Isis coustituents to sitpport a proposi-
t l for the total repeal of the coal tax. --! Hear,
bear.) —lie also defended the people of Monmouth
from the nun imputation. Ile felt all the difficul-
ties of this question. He felt how unfair it was to
require from the Ministers the surrender of a large
motion of the revenue in the present emba:reasetl
state of the filiances ; but lie trusted the time
come when the people would receive some
501...,-11 f the a-tere pi essure of taxation.
Altlei mon WooD a-cured the Hon. Meilib.a.
tie never meant to throw any imputations upon the
ear of Bristol.
A Member (we believe Mr. BASTARD) shortly
capresssil his concurrence in the present motion.
After SOW!' further remarks from Mr. BYNO anti
11,. It DAVIS, in support of the motion, Mr. H.
:"•I;Nt NCR shortly replied.
Toe !louse then divided, when there appeared--
the motiun
.Iptiowt it

Majority

I .ea‘e was thus reluwed.
INSOLVENT DEBTORS.
Lord A LTHORP hoped that the motion he should
!rave the looluur to propose would meet with the gene-
ril approbation of the House and the country. The
Committee appointed to ccnssider this subject, haul
concurred unanimously in the measure he should
sub:nit. To inform the House of the precise nature
of that measure, he should enter into some details.
F: was unnecessary to apprise the House, that by
the ancient law of the country, creditors had a per-
fect power of committing debtors to prison until
the dap was paid. The first remission of this
:severity was effected by what were called the Lords'
Acts, by which the debtor was ordered to be
di-charged on snaking a full cession of his property ;
bat these were temporary eoactmentr, and were at-
tended with not only extreme severity in some in-
ranee!, but with great abuse in many others.
The temporary Acts being considered in many re-
,opess objectionable, it was thought of more ad-
a-,sage to frame a general measure, which, being
in operation, would be attended with equal
&cis to all, and would prevent, at the same
t.ine, the recurrence of the gross abuses previously
practised. This law operated on the principle,
that every debtor on a bona fide surrender of
his property, and after an imprisonment for three
tits, should be set at li4erty. To this ge-
neral principle of the measure, lie trusted there
would be no objection.—( fLiser hear, hear.)—
Tu eis!orce the law a separate Court was framed,
hilt in the nature and constitution of this Court there
appeared many. objectious. Oats was, that there did
•

not exist a sufficieot power to discover the property " had not sanctioned the alterutsui. he proposed ; hat
of the debtor. It could not be done with advantage in the Bill, which he truststd would receive the
i
in an open Court, and the consequence was, that sanction of the House, he was_ prepared to propose a.
in some instances exposures unnecessarily took close suspending the removal of a pauper, praline(
place, and in others the property of the debtors was i an appeal to the Quarter Sessions. Against this
dishonestly kept back. Another great evil in the 1 clause, petitions, he was sorry to say, had beet* pre•
existing lew was, that after all individual wet ; vented, and from opulent parishes, which ougist nut
arrested he was permitted to choose his own to have sanctioned such a proceeding.
time to take advantage of the Act. In the Mr. CutgPs replied, and readily resigned his
mean time the debtor lived at his ease within intention to the Hon. Gentleman of ust briuei in
w a
the rules of the prison, and after spending ali, i such • Bill as this.
his money then came forward and claimed his I EXCISE PENALTIES.
M eow. To correct the first evil he should pro- On the motion of Mr. D. W. Ilaittrxtr. a return
pose, that examinations should be held on the ; was ordered to be laid before the House of the moil-
private property of debtors similar to the examine- I, bee of Penalties levied and compromised. by the
pons of bankrupt property in Guildhall ; viol to i sioard of Excise within the last year. •
remedy the second, his Bill would render it impers. I - BANK REPORT.
tive on the debtor to take advantage of the Act ! Mr. la
sAISSFELt. gave notice, that it, was his in-
within ten days niter him arrest.-- (Henri—He should 1 tendon to-morrow to move fur the production of a
also propose the removal or diminution of fees. I Paper, which would supply an acciSeistal orni-sioil
It was supposed that some difficulty would arise ! (for such lie presumed it wet.) in the papers on the
from the removal of this system of fees. IVherever i 'elate respecting the discussion on the Bank Report.
a difficulty appeared he should be happy to re- 1 %Vito he wanted was a similar paper to that pro-
nutty it, and perhaps in some instances fees might ' duced in 1807, filtering the amount distributed in
he permitted, but they should be considered as I the shape of profit among the Bank Proprietors
exceptions to the general principle. It was afro ! since the last return had been made. He would
his intention that there should he three Commis- I to-morrow move that this omission be supplied.
missioneis of Insolvency instead of one.--(llear, i
TYPHUS FEVER.
Such was the mode its which he intended the Ilill I Sir jnit. 1,4 .
should operate in London, but in the country it was ; d .''''''' s'aWP°nT gave nonc" that on M-on"
isiy
burst lie would propose a farther regulation for
his intention that the Magistrates at the Quarter i the better ter prevention of the spreading of contagious
Sessions should appoint a person to conduct iite pre. lever iii Ireland.
bminery examination, winch should be reported to. '
the Magistrates. He hoped he had made himself un- FOREIGN ENLISTMENT BILL.
The Arro RN m(4;
derstood on this subject ; but if any of the pingo ples i ENERAL brought in the Bill
. for the more effectual prevention of the enlirtment
or the det .its were &pleasing to llou. Members, they
would have ate opportunity of expreasitig their .chit. ! of his Mstjesq's subjects in foreign service. The
meats in the further,progress of the Bill. There was j Bill was re:tel a first time, ordered to be read a se-
cond time this day fortnight, and to be printed.
only one objection, as he thought, to the measure, 1
which was the additional expense it would create, but i BANK AF AIRS.
Mr. G. CALLAGHAN ruse to put a question to
when the importance of the measure was considered. !
t the Right Don. Gentleman near him (the Chatted.
he trusted this would not he an objection. The
fur of the Exchequer), respecting a paragraph
Noble Lord concluded by moving for leave to 1
which appeared in The Courier of that evening on
bring is a Bill for the benefit of lasobrent Debtors. !
the retumption of cash payments by the Bank.
Mr. Alderman WAITHStsm felt that the present 1
In that paragraph it was aided, that the repay-
was net the proper moment for discussing the I
meta of the ten millions due to the Bank was to
principle of the Bill ; but he felt anxious to say a
take place before the commencement of bullion puy-
few words on what he conceived to he a initunder. '
1 mettle, that is, before the Ist February, 1820. If
standing with respect to the sentiments of the 'eve.
this article came from authority, as its appearance
rat Petitioners who inlayed spina the renewal of .
in that Newspaper might be supposed to imply, it
the present Act. He lactated that it never was i
was calculated to excite serioas alarm throughout
Isis wish, Hoy of the Petiti rs whose sentiments he I
It was with a view to obviate this
hod communicated to the House, that unfortunate ' the
alarm, country.
that he felt inclined to inquire from the
debtors should be e xcluded from the benefits of
Right Hon. Geutlettian whether the paragraph to
the principle of the Bill. The present law, bow.
and re. which lie alluded might be looked upon as official
ever, was very injurious in its operation,
or out?
spired conch rhenium,. i
The CuexCEl.Loa of the EXCHEQUER, in al- : Sir .lulls NEWPORT objected to the putting of
question to the Right Rum Gentletnato
fusion to what fell from the Not;le Lmal with re- ' such u
To ask a Alinirter of the Crown whether a para.
spect to the possible inereaue of expense, steal, that .
graph in a newspaper, without any name, or up•
the measure now brought liefore the House was of
so touch importence to the country, that on slight tbsurunce of authe""eitYr was official or not, was,
he thought, to put a very improper quration. If
increase 'if expriow should iii his mind weigh '
an anstver were once given to such- vague and
imp, the improvement of the system. With the
unusual interrogatories. a Minister would be placed
exception of the Poor Laws, there never was a
iii the predicemesit of being called upon to make,
in
questicomion
ug to sin whia
determi ch he experi
tieson, and felticed so much
sucdiffihcurultt-
y
by atiticipeti 1111 l disclosures winch might tend, in-
na
barmasmeist as on the subject now under consider- dependent of their regularity. to the injury of the
auto. The loss thrown on the country by the mea_ public service. Such questions were orver yet put
sure introduced iv the other House of Parliament in time mounter. In lies opinion they never ought
was so great, that he was often surprised the coup- to be put—most assuredly they never ought to be
try could hest it. He expressed his approbation auswered.—(Hear.)
of the Noble Lord's BM, mid should in its pro- Mr. GitENIELL was the more surprised that such
a question should be put, when it was open to every
seers give every assistance. in his power to render it
Mai. Member to see, from the Report of the Com.
effeciive for its proposed object.
Mr. HURST expressed his gratitude to the Noble mitten on their table, that though *illusion was
he lied now 'submitted to the wade to the necessity of repaying the Batik the ten
Lord. fur the measure millions due by the public, not one syllable was
Ilouse.
Mr. I). HARVEY thought that a very favourable added respecting the ',recite time when Well repay-
opportunity now presented itself to his Majesty's meld was to be made. He trusted the Chancellor
Ministers to correct the general administration of of the Exchequer would not give an answer to the
the law with respect to bankruptcy owl in. question whicit had been put.
solvency. A great expense might also he avoided. Mr. (1. CALLAGHAN explaitied, that nothing was
'There were at present fourteen lists of Ilankropt further fissin his wish than to put au irregular pies-
Commissioners. costing the country 35,0001. a year. tutu, or one which could in any way tend to a pie-
Now if, instead of these, three Judges of Insolvency l mature disclosure that may be injurious to the
were appointed, with 3,000/. a year each, a great public service—on the contrary, Ins only object
wing would be effected, amid the property of bank. wits, ahe told stated it, to obviate the injurious
runts and insolvents would he divided with greater effectshh a paragraph, carrying to a certain de-
promptitude and advantage than was now practised. gres the stamp of authentic from the medium
Mr. COVOTENAY could not agree with the Hots. through which it was conveyed, was ealculated to
Member who Inst spoke, Met such au alteration as I exci;e•
he pronoseil would be attended with any advantage. 'lite SPEAKER expressed himself quite satisfied
On the contrary, he thought it would create a cont. I that the thou. Member himself would on a little
plicated and expensive systens. which would be iii. reflection see the impropriety of pitting his ques.
tolerable. He did not think that the increase of i nom To put a question at any time was a matter
Commissioners, as suggested by the Noble Lord mot of right but of courtesy—it was a course ad-
mitted fur convenience by the House. But he be-
who proposed the Bill, would be attended with
advactageoutt results. lieved this was the first time of patting such a
Sir 4. NEWPOOT hoped, if the expe,i,,,„„t now question to a Mesieter of the Crown, founded on
proposed by the Noble Lord would be found to be she ysgue euthority of a paragraph in a public
att,„o,d with susses,. no time would be lost 4, Newspaper. If such a course were at all admitted,
extending it to Irelendsze(Hear, hear.) I the inconvenience which might result was obvious.
Mr. L. Fosreg, said, Oil the principle on which I —(Hrgr. hear.)
the legislation on this subject Was conducted with The CHANCELLOR of the Exctutoura then
respect to Ireland, was to assimilate the law in tf,at 1 said. " I feel very great regret. Sir, that a convey
county as mucus ao teksible to the law in this, with-
motion in private with the lino. Member who put
out any reference to the peculiar circumstances of iI, this question should have leal to the course that has
s either. Tier evils arising from the present law in i been purseed. I cannot, scatterer, forbear *gime
reland were en great. as to destroy, in a great mea. that much has lately appeared in that raper (The
I
sure, all the retell trade of that country. Cogrier) on the question alluded to, of which 1
The motion was then put, and leave given to eutirely diapprove."—(llear, hear.)
bong in the Bill INSOLVENT DEBTORS.
POOR SETTLEMENT. Lord ALTMORP biought in Isis Bill for the relief
Mr. CAMPS, after noticing a lew remarks upon of Insolvent' Debtors, which was read a first time,
the injurious effects of the existing Law of Setile:. and ordered to be printed.
•
meat, and the great inconsistency with which it was IRISH DISTILLATION.
carried into operation, stated his intention of mov. On the motion of the CHANEELiOR of the Elt-
ing for leave to bring in a Rill, that settlements CHEQUER, the House resolved itself Moo a Com-
should be no longer obtained by renting tenements i 'Mote on the Acts respecting Distillation in behind.
at the value of 10/. per ann. but that this monist The Right Hon. Getaletnen, in the Committee,
should be raised to OW. one moiety of which should proposed a Resolution, that leave be given to bring
be • tenement bona fide to the value of 101. within i in • Bill to suspend the operation of the Town-
the parish in which the individual resided. His j boot Fine Bill, after the Midaummer of the eissuiog
object, in the event of obtaining leave to bri,iear. He intimated that it. was his intention. in
y
the Bill, was to have it printed, and let it lie over i the event of his obtaining )ewe to bring in this
until the next Session, being convinced that the Bill, to accompany it with several regulation,,
more his proposition was examined, the more he I which would. he trusted; in the interim, obviate
should find to entertain his opinion. He then moved many of the objections that had been made to
for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Laws re- the present mode of preventing illicit distillation
lating to the Settlements of die poor. in frelait:l. It was known that in the barony of In-
Mr. S. Bowser. said, flout what the lion. Nem- nishoweti, where illicit distillation at one time raged.
tier had communicated to Imo in private. he had it was etrectually extinguished. by the eitsrgy of an
effective police ; now Isis intention was, tlfat where-
not expected that he would have merle this niotion.
The obj. ct of the ulterution in the 1;111 which had 1 ever this police *ln; established and effectively meted
pot received the emir:non of the Houle was, that the upon, no towidend fines shoithl be fettled, and diet
actual bona fide remit should he paid instead of the after the summer of the ensuing year, the effect id'
annual rated value, which was liable Lose fluctuating the measure should be reviewed. He wiseteci, iii
and unequal amount. ;-is sirs perry that the 1-,louse 1 the intenons to have it clause iu force giving ray