The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1821-02-09 00:00:00

to interrupt • debate entel• whew dee iieviatior
Irmo Seder was deer.

. -
Is wan dimaisiebiseg the ibility of the Leanied Gem.
Mr ,wan
by entailed! had fallen frone hies to the heal
dP the adveleste. . doodler Pleasurable and Learned Gentle-
'MN bed, w • former otessioa, addressed the Howse is chat
apathy. Yid he had beep lilting to amigo the earmith of
the Learned °estimate opposite to the sane *chug; bet
It lippeosed that at reseal the Huitiferable Geotlewswo
*islet to be comildered as 'Teatime in his capacity of
Oft Ishii of Pailitieseat, tad not at as advocate. Slice
tilh Inn was &Copped, *hat had been going on all over
'lllth country! *hat bed bees the language held in that
Illirouti! what had lees the tenor of the speeches addressed
teT.perblie Neeetionesr *hat bit a contitieed deism of inert-
Mee sooesst Ministers, and that isoprene, had been cirrulat.
•Nfitereth sopa. ofd neetteece in all the Papers that were
paid by her Majesty, and which exhibited a degree of been-
tibetione that was without • •parallel.—(llse, hear.)—lt
elleetty was IM Struck for rise Hoe. and Learned Member to
• Intirere Melee dwelt, have floe *erre.' free chase against
• les Majesty's Ministers, ind that they should Not lift op a
' laid Itt their owls defillee, With respeet to what he had
fetid oboist the withholding of vittaeseee, the Hdo Member
'lied iso Wet topic addressed an 'neswer to the speech of his
' illinettetiltftfttesiel Learned Priced on a former evening, and
des las sag petit if Ma (Lord Castlereagh's) When
' Ilte allffilireve Slew tebarged with' amieeesesitity inditatiag
'lli, yesieredisegs:antil %bre regettioes had beets cast spout
• the'3lllten'Cotentitelue, hetet, said that the House was not
...• IlltsipOidie that the ease os which ftlioisters founded the
I am -Ws' only eollllllellllll/lileirith the case which had
- a p preset It mast be remembered, even by the
Ilareoetobte Intl. Learned °fattens's hint*lf, that the
' Solt erftaesees that loose lo this country were infamously
Ned brutally ill-treated at Dover, aed so much terrified
''that they insisted nim going bark spirt. Others also
' eh° were on their way over, hearisit of this at Paris,
• tweed heck, avid yield not be prevailed open to return iii
'Awe, Itet were on their way whets the proceedings were
1 Aiwa. The witnesses to which he had alluded were not
' Mich as were rejected by the Commission, but were 80
1 witnesses whose depoeiticnt they had transmitted, as of
•
pers.'', who were to be believed, but who afterwards through
;Ater ?rimed to eeme over. He thought It unfair that when
jthey were Weed epees esplamations of this soft, they should
hlt satipreed Aw tasking them to personal attack,.
''lll, yam MAW Mild, the Noble Lord appealed to Lis
' beiteltereion'of ets essieh upon certain witnesses at Dover
''wail of the recites of ethers from Pada ; now none of those
''
'Teets were ever its his keowledge. With retard to other
' effete** who were said to have been epos the road, be did
"'opt haw the fact, our had he ever believed it.
.' lied CASTLEREAGH said across the table, It could be
....rowed ea oath.
Mr. HUME said, unless the Noble Lord explained epos
. *hat authority be founded his assertion respecting the
a inmee it of Papers by the Qeeen, be thought the House
• 3 4etil Only esactside that it was as ill-feeeded as the antra-
l.
Moils of the Has. Member fur Surrey or • former night.
I
Ur. Alderisite WOOD said, that he should aot have said
'..eiiii ward as ehis eiteasion but fur what had (elk. frau" the
' **Me Lied. 'The tiro Hon. Members for Surrey Mid fur
• -Sensetoet seemed to have had large ideas of bills repaid by
: Air Majesty, hat op to this time they had bees astable to
' firaish any parrlealars. It had also been said that her Me.
jest, bad paid fur the processions, which had been mentally
aid indignantly refuted by yi individual who bad Iseawsged
one of the most costly ceremonies of that description ; sod
now again came the charge of Whist the Press. But be was
ready to state, that if the Noble Lord, or say other preens
oltatevercoulil prove say such payment, lie smooth! give them
oaf Andhra pounds f y shilling so paid by her Majesty.
Slily say person with her authority or knowledlte.--(CAtlen.)
Witls renemeet to the damwers of bee Majesty to certain Ad-
-1 Aresees, aestivate Lord had gone down to Canterbury sad to
*' Doter, t• seek for matter of reprebrasios is those Amours;
'''. but !lading that he could nut drown her Majesty to salt water,
A.
,"'"was determined to try what fresh water could do. The
sewers to the former Addresses being proved to have beets
'''7iferloit4 the Noble Lord went further into the hook, and at
pa& 13 found the Asawer to the Wandsworth Address—
'''(hit at least he supposed must have beta written. In
Joel It was so; and be had referred to the manuscript,
• bed feud that instead of " no person was ever freer
s•
.f styes to her people," in the manuscript it was " to
• tee people." The Noble Lord had undoubtedly read the
•etract correctly as it was printed in the book; but that
•Witu(t was notoriously printed to answer the same purpose
• which the Noble Lord had is view in reading the extracts;
4 it was Notoriously incorrect, and wilfully misrepresented the
• •flets. lt had been extensively circulated to 'sower the
purpose of spreading the delusion, and that be believed
'.'otter the patronage of Ministers. Was that conduct
..'ltreurning of Ststeenteo ?—was that the eoaduct which
' became the head of Administration? The worthy Alderman
• then proceeded to notice the supposed attack ito the Italian
*itemises at Dover, which he declared to be nothing more
:.:isi reality than the exclamation of a few old women in the
crowd, which their appearance bad collected, of "Get hems
itgain, you Hansa weetches."—(lforraterefront the Mitniehi.
reel Bewekes.)—The Noble Lord had said there were eighty
• ' witnesses who were afraid to tome over; be would ask what
was become of about fifty who were to Coltuo-gardeu, that'
' had nut been extiained ? —fetters )
4 •
Mr. lIUSKISSON said, that after the challenge of the
, ,Has. Alderman, perhaps he might not ion" that aey Papers
. . were paid by her Majesty, hut in the Papers which most
. warmly advocated her cease the Answers to Addresses were
. painted as they were is the book a hich had beer alluded to.
He had attached say insportawee to those Aeswers in
d. lArallielees, bet only as the Gaeta was made the mouthpiece
by which they went uttered. They bad been some time in
..print, mad if futurreet he thrombi it very simile of her Ma-
. kites friends to allow them to remain umieticed, cake-
. *led es they were to 'iodate aa eafavearable impression.
The Petition was ordered to be printed.
„ Mr. PELHAM preeeeteL asunder Feeblest from Spald.
. log, is l.incolashire.—Ordered to be rioted.
Mr. HUM E presented a similar Petition from the Cot.
potation of Perth. He repelled with score the imputation
tele* the Sitio lloo.Grolleusesa (il.r. Hashimoto.) had east
opus him, of itat•aisey with sedition sales. indeed he so
. irteced any degree of stet wheat Is; had exercised its the
. . Cause of an iojured female; of such •editiesi he should
,tsar be proud. Tile Hun. Gentlemen 'deeded t the
. **tidied .election of after questioasiele rhymer, . tea if they
..had been correctly given, when boodiede of sentreces
. .oltethit be lowest ila the swum. of her Majesty, teemiug
with loyally Arid eapreasive of respect to the King.
. Mr. HUSKISSON ireplaiutd.
. . The Petition was ordered to be printed
dlr. HONIWOOD presented a Pettlios from the Frets.
. hold. re of the timely of Kent, similar is prayer to ths
foi ripest, sail cumpleining anomie other thiegs a the opera.
.t... (o ids protoicsiittu of Parliameut. The meeting at which
if.-. Petition was adopted, iii consequence of the Noble.
~..' ir„oid's' Acts of Fast Session, took place in the Town-.
_ 1. -11 at Maidslosee, beisg the first time that • ateetieg
' .Attie team, of Kean bad ever been held nut iii the
la • lir. Fos the respectability of the eneesier, and that
"1 W "'Petitiriii forty expire...dies sentinteada, be could vouch;
I.s
....1-414 enetimul beteg held up against the Resole tines, which
els by i rlflway .Lotatemaist of the waggon train. The
Itigli'Mmer“i iefared to can the alerting, because, all be'
~ retie/ to say. She Requieitiou did out accord with the Mile.
Serrate of 14. otsjerity of the Freeholder.; ea such eundort
should Sot Now remark at any length, es the subject would
..
.Itio!• Ity ght wider ilie particular notice of the House,
'be ''
he be4W '
his Hemeetable Felted (Mr. Beaumont) behind him. He
'titeld Ne4lsioree. r. refrain frum uhesteistit, that if High She.;
Mrs were to IN allotted to take open theworelves to retest
locoeveleeteelitigOipon reqsisitawits legally sad respeette:'
' liiistineel; aiberely from their own ahem or reprice, there wow
an run :of the right of rtitiosmed -.(1./ear, heir, hear.)—•
He sepisk4 to the Ilya. Batuabet opp,mite, his Conciliar, it

.
l

• tits *bele 'testify then eras *se eiegle Vika** let
blasobeess.
Sir aI44IITOISIMLL ireetleithre eipetlifee le the
reeeptiel or the Nittioe. Ile slims Felt tiriapte la ex.
Pe••••S b 0 •••••17 I_o PPierwe At flak MM ;,
111eattorableCaregoe had sit Jadelief Is is Wm*
ea the High libretti, ha obetalil have fee observations to
arm With respect to that poled. be would saute
_

riff compelled to tall a meeting, wakes the Retisdeir•
lion ;resealed to him for that purpose bed beds Ø.
Italy stored.. He dad atist-andiw lo imebt_puesksoltb.i.
pretty to the geotlemen who sliertirtimi gOisilids; .
the grovads oa which the High Sheriff refold! i o coil 1
stetting were, tilt he coosidered it did hot cuaiiit;..
general Wei littPlllll of the county. The Hutto.
(Mattresses had stated, slot it was the lint mediae
..... .
bad not bees held in the 'opts air le :that coo ,
seed that tit coosequeitee of die estalteed plait.' is r .
it was held, &cereal were preeeuted from ailed*. '
Bat the Hun. Member moat be aware that as the It. . .
Blends, it is necessary to have See Magistrates to eilll
fording su that wily, aud that they 'mold not.be gut to •
Vast is. The Hon. Geo.lerose appealed to Lite. whether ay
4kiesseceitries tor blasphemy had takes place in she realm.
Mid was that a reason why they should shot their eyes .
.chat was going forward to other pads of theepantry ?
11011 M be the obj-ct or she meltaiuf of the =vomited or,
*AM tielstieweao, he most ekeeee him if be
.eddill mat
9111.rnilit %Ms
Mr. IFONTWOOD explained. Hesidid tat ilicasivi.
0.6 for wishing to have the meeting calico in such a be . ,
eras in consoqeence of the immediate meeting of Pailie,
Bet it was house all over the county that it irsi li
place; is fart, it was es oottniuus as the. sit al, odd,'
Ha did dal It bow she condoler of she 'irilf etaaltille
justified.. 'A Revelries% most aumeroosty ..a, rdipeplaidg
signed had berg preseesed so kiss, heeded by slaiMie all tip
Aristocracy of she meaty, and a most respectable body of
the gentry and freeholders. The Hue. Baronet oppeeite
shakes his bead at she mention of the Aristocracy, bit he
would nesse swine of them, four of the Wen Peers Is the
cutostry, Thema, Cowper, Jersey, Polksitose„ sad arbeta,
and if derileosen did nut then chose* to oppose the meeting,
be apprehended the Petition must be received.
Sir ROBERT WILSON, as one of the reeinisl!lisisishs
wished so make a few observations. The reasuamislgied ger
the Sheriff not cellist' the meeting was, that the requisition
did not express the geueral opinion of the curdy s'.letst it
was hie bounden day to have called the meeting, its sieskgsio
ascertain whether it was the °piston of the comity or net.
If Sheriffs were permitted to pursue Ibis lice of conduct, the
people sunlit be completely deprived of their liberties.
Sir E. X N ATCH ISU IL explained.
Dr. LUSH I NGTON observed, that the simple etatemed,
which seemed 10 be agreed on on both side', was tibia, that
a requisitiora. signed by • moat numerous suit respedabte
body of men, had been presented to the Sheriff, bus tic ee-
oulsitionists were unable so obtain his consent. anti Were
also unable to get bee Magistrates so call the meth
What ties was the inference to be draw. from ibis sot e ;..
meat ? Why, that if • requisition he pretested lo s fitter „
No
matter whether it be signed by
,several Seers o' the
realm, no matter by what somber of the must respeet4le
' freeholders, sakes Ave Slagistrates of tke cosily tins& 4r.
per to call it, it caned he dune.—(Hear, keen)—lferes Nodes
the most levalnable of all privilsges the right orpetilids,
la Invaded. The Sheriffs are nominated by the Cretins the
Magistrates are elected to the same otaniser—(eilife of
" ilia, ao Pr)—be snalateined that it was so, and iii,eallay
parts of the esessaley elected to aoswer political porposiii.—
(f hem/roue Ike Oppositions )--Nnet he contended Met Itto
Sheriff had so right, either ie principle or justice, to take
tato tostaiderdloo nosy of the matters which had beds Muted.
These statements eirairseed an spiel.. expressed by as tirnm
Prised of hie, whim he did sot then see in his pram,' (bat
these laws were as idealist ebrldgment of the rights aid
liberties which the people enjoyed before she Noble Lord
(Castlereagh) look into his bands the amendwieet of Oise
ornatitetiou, by taking away every particle of freedom which
this country enjoyed, aid by imposiag laws which be, lee
amt. would always consider bed been tyrannically coacted.—.
(Hear, ho r.)
Mr. MARTIN (of Galway) ruse for the 'purpose Of
.swathing tie rugged frost of the H 65. Hosier. 'MISS*.
Member then catered iota • justillediots of the late Acts
of Parliament (the six Acts), and wished to ask the HIM.
Doctor whether previous to the passing those Billegal Shed,
might not refuse to call a meeting ?
Sir ROBERT WILSON had nu hesitation Is fineireriag
the challenge thrown ens from the Hon. Member, for 'text..
sus to those Bills, if a Sheriff refused to call a meeting, he
might he compelled to roll a meeting, sod he had divided
meetings under such circumstances.
A Member ow the Ministerial side of the Howse (*keen
name we could sot leant) spoke in reply to the °Weer.-
lions of the Learned Doctor, gamely, that the Magistrates
of the costdry were wader the isoininatiois of She Crown.
He protested against swede dodder, and considered it an
imputatioe out she whole Magistracy of the coonsty.
Sir ROBERT HERON agreed wish the Hon. Member
that preceded him, that the Lords Lieutenant of coddles
were composed of men the most respectable and boomers-
ble is the country; bat he most also observe that whew these
men, its the very deed of lbeir virtue sod parity of is-
teation, come to discharge that duty .n opposition to the
Gorersinteul, no 'natter what their character or Integrity
may be, if it should nut meet the wishes of Men is power,
they had sees bow they were treated—a mode of treatsieut,
however, whichloometimes raises them still higher thee be-
fore is the estiniatioo of all honest and indepeodent men.
Mr. F. PALM ER had to state a circuessisees reload; to
she otemioasion of Magistrates which occurred to himself. Ito
had applied with's, the last three years (anti he appealed to
the Hon. Member fur Wilshire- fur the accuracy of his stala
meal) to be appointed a Magistrate of the county, and fur
some reason or other he was lint appointed. God knows be
did oot expert any profit or emulnnient from the office; be
merely applied because it would be as advantage to those
in his neighbourhood. What the reasons might be for not
appointing him he could cot know; he could not suppose
it was WI account of private character, far that he hoped
would stead ea invesligation ; it must :hen be ma actinnat
I of those public principles which be always professed.

Mr. KENNET (Member for Wiltabire) stated..lbot tie
Gel was as Mr. Paltrier had stated it; bet wby it was so be
cupid out tell.
.. L. rd. PA LM ERSTON observed. that Ilse Lord litittemsot
of Wiltshire was owe of lb• moss baw►wrable men is exist.
mire. mid &kat be was quite iaespable of say thing despi.
sable.

Dr. LUSH INGTON observed, In explanation, that be did
sot stale the whole of the Masistracy of the etsustry weir
nominated by the Clown, but is particular immures, sad
this opinion was atiewithened by the statements of the Hun.
Grill learnt.
Lord CASTLEREAGH staled, that there were la the
comity 2011 Magistrates, and it was hard to see the policy of
coiling the meeting, wbra there could sot be Ire out of the
200 fonnd to call it.

Sir E. kNATCIIBULL exphtined, upon wkhdlibt
00.1 OM ordered to tie wm the table.
Mr. KICE moved, that an Account of all Sown nablitileitir
for the last ten years to the Grand Juries of the City
Lime. ick, he presented to the House; and also mum An..l
counts relative to the late Treasurer.
Mr. EI.LIOE presented a Priiiion.prayinp leave tho'lfillls2
draw a Petition against the Return of the Member Pao du;
Borough of Bussiney. He Mould that Mr. Gilbert F
- . .. • .
Bs rotted to the Bar; which helot(' done—
The SPEAKER abed hint—Are you egret to 1114: 'OMNI .
verber.ve, who predicated a Petition to this Homw?—?h.
Have you any document to prove that a commatiaainta or
bankrupt has been law d agaiO.t 31r.Jautsea We Muer —We
studs itsiond the witness to Lty No.
Mr. LOCK HA BT—Has Hotness any proceediags tottery
th at Mr. James Webster luta been declared a bankrupt I—Mir
could not hear the answer,

r.
Mr. 611110111101MNAMMIII‘r tem for Mt. hook Web-
ster to
Mr. BART lice, wbeilier behatl sivoli oak
tire to oho
Mr. ELLICIamoNNI la am affirmatta •i Mid harm
to moos obeervidOMP.Blll ler. Umtata y,statiol, bat lot'
had remount katteltir dud the Petitioact bad Weep a

BTATI

OF

1111.

'Me.- EiViiitetx presented a Petition
Merchants and Traders of the Town of Bit.
t. praying a full inquiry lege She ilei.mnol (4-
"tient; and the means of removing it. The Oeti-
Hamera complained of the deprenied state of coin-
merce, agriculture, and manufactures. the thiee
C:ftassures from whenee the prosperity of the
was derived. The Petitioners prayed that
Inishourable House to institute an immediate in-
quiry, and not to suffer any party interest to influ-
ence, but to endeavour to find out the hest means of
affording • remedy to the distresses under which they
leboored. From all the information he could collect,
some parts of trade had been improved, hut in Bir.
iniugham, since the month of Anvils* kits the main
articles of trade had been reduced 21 per (mist ;
aopitobsts had reduced their carnal; the traileie
Asw were not employed more than three or
Awl in a week; mid this they ',tribute to IWO
rdepreseed state of the iron manufactures. As to
•the causes from whence this proceeded, lie verily
believed they were more of a general than a
local nature. Therefore, he would not at pm-.
sent propose any further steps than by assuring
the Host*, that it was a matter of vied importance
to the interests of the nation, and one that called fur
the serious attention of his Majesty's Ministers and
that /louse. He sincerely trusted that the qiiestion
would get all that serious consideration to which
it was entitled, and that those persons who had borne
their calamities with such patience, would obtain
relief front the insurmountable distress under which
they at present laboured.
Mr. LAWILeT wished to make a few observations
on the Petition that had been presented by his
Hoot. Friend. He had stated that it was most
respectably signed. but it was not on that account
the, he wished to call the attention of the House to
it, but on account of the statements it contained,
statements in which all that interests the
empire is concerned. These Petitioners, in order
to iodises. the House to take the matter into
their most serious consideration, divided them-
selves into !parties in order to ascertain the
consumption of all the beef, beer, and other elects.
series; and they find that within the last three
years there is a felling off of onestbird iu the two
articles of beef and beer, and that in bread there
.is a considerable diminution, and that a great por-
tion of the people are supplied nn credit. It was
• met his intention to offer any opinions to the House.
founded as they must he on very confined local in-
formatioto ; but. lie understood that a Gentleman in
that House, of very considerable talents, was MU,*
to undertake it.
Mr. LITTLCToW stated, that in the town
Birmingham, inure this, in any other in Engle
a practice prevailed of issuing paper to obtain cee.:
edit; and, in his opinion, this circiime-ance tend-
ed very mach to create distres.. The Petitioners
slate, that their distres-es are not is be traced to
she otwastion of the war. .Perhaps it would not
*tuituiblered right in his to state an opinion
oiswir so messy pracrical men; but lie was of
'trite *contrary opiuion. During the war the quan-
tity of pistols,awurds, and bayonets,and other articles
.91 this kind, which were furnished from that peculiar
*wire, must have been very greet. When we
elinsider the liberality of the English Government
in fitting out army furniture, and the sums
of money expended amongst them, it did ap-
r pear to him that a very long period must elapse
before the chasm shall have been filled up that
was occasioned by the cessation of the war.—
When we consider the great depression of that
branch of trade, agriculture, he could not help feel-
ing that it must have had a considerable influence
on the iron trade, when we reflect on the great
quantity of iron used in that way. He complained
that at a time when the landholder and all others
should be paying such heavy taxes, that the food.
holders should be exempt, and if it would not be
considered ungracious at the present time, when
the nation was weighed down with taxer, to propose
a new one, he would suggest that a trx levied nu
fundholders would be attended with considerable
advantage.
Mr. Cuasise observed, that no Petition had
ever heen presented to that House more calculated
to excite serious alarm. Perhaps in these times of
general din ,it was not too much to expect that
some mention would be made of this subject in the
Speech from the Throne; but, on the coutrares
we were informed that the trade of the country was
rather in en improving condition. They must
therefore suppose that either the Ministers of the
Crown have neglected icatituting an inquiry,
or that they were afraid to commence it.—
Would the Noble Lord have the goodness to point
out in what way or trade over the revenues of the
conutry had beenAnigrstveit. For kis.pari, he did
not think that titbit one or the other bad occurred,
but that the cout.try would be going on from bed
to worse. He did not like the palliatives of the
Noble Lord ; he thought the danger should be
looked manfully in the free. There was one point .
on which he agreed with the Noble Lord, and that
was, that in no manatee should we impose re-
urictious on the Bank. It would bring accumulat-
ed evils upon ; for it could hardly be denied
that the return to cash payments had a material
influence on our trade. He thought the House
'Wald cull
.for a Committee to ievestigate the
whole matter. It was quite impossible the comi-
ery could remain in its present condition, for now
the land will birely pay the enormous taxes, tithes,
arid poor rates. Ile would ask the Noble Lord at
:Who he esiiiteries thereat property of the country ?
".pis the time of Mr. Pitt it was estimated at twenty-
eight million.: is it now twenty millions ? What
wee then the state of poor rates ? Four millions.
What are they now ? Eight millions. But the
NM& Lord talks of the prosperity of the country :
if he, ur any of his Colleague., would get ap and
• mate in what that consisted, he should bow with
submission and the most complete satisfaction.,
But is the funded interest to beer none of the
Weight while taxes are bearing down all Oben? He
could tell the Noble Lord and the House that this
was set the opinion of one, bet the covert opinion
of stop Bert he fawned to conceal his senti-
Intel% 4u Hosooroble Member bad alluded to a

~-_ -..--

•
The country tris 101114iiitotile to
rx explained.
resumed, and said, that he would
,aoble Lold (Castlereagh) to say, that
!tugs ought to stop where they were when the
tusking poputstion of the country were oat of erttS
ploy and the farmer could not get on on account
of the quantity of taxes. It certainly was not
hismisli that the Noble Lord should reirrairr itr
ofllce. but if he did. and would go into wa intimry
into the causes of the distreve thin rsisted, lie should
have his support. He had Huard Hon. Member.
say, they were fearful of Reform,. of Catholic
Erislineipallon' and idterfering with the subject of
agriculture. lie was only fearful that the country
would arrive to a state that it would have nothing
to lore. If they went into inquiry. and rie:re slut
able to coolie to • result Illsi would amilirtfait
the (hater's, still inquiry would satisfy the country.
As an agriculturist. lie asked for molting that would
not tend to die welfare of the mpire. All he wishd.
was, tb.t the coootry should be restored to HMI
shoe it was io before the late disastrous will OA.—
tatuerd.
Mr. W. Peat slid, to his own knowledge the
town of Bir,nioehano was in a deplorable state of .
distress ; the chief of the tradesmen were in a state
.of insolvency, and it was • case that called loudly
for inquiry.
Mr. lioatosou hoped the House would pardon
bins if he pot eider into those topics minutely
on the i,tet•ent of-coition. His Honourable Friend,
the Member for Stafford, had snide a proposition,
which. it carried into effect, would overturn an Act
of Parliattpo!, only made two years ago. The'
Honourable Gentleman's proposition opposite was
most 4,laug,r,,us, the forcible seduction of the in-
terest of the pailoitel debt. Ii might give some tem-
porary relief to the agriculturist to get at the great
fundholdeo, ; hut whist would he the situation of
the small food-holders ? their whole support being
wrapped U. to Government securities. It would
be doing ',reparable mischief. lie objected to the
iiiterference of Ministers, as it would bring • great
responatiolity if theta attempted any change in the
system ; however, of ally Honourable Gentleman
would fairly trrissz forward al.y feasible propmatiou
that could be it'opted, hr should have his assist-
ance. Wass ii right that Government should be
told that the) weir hot willing to assist in giving
relief, hecause they would not lend themselves to
every wild scheme ?
Mr. BARING said, he was sorry that the feelings
of the Rigt.t Honourable Gentleman should have
esrrird him away so much as not to allow him to
give any information on the subject. This he was
convinced of, that Whatever the distresses of the
country might be, they never could be met but by
honesty and probity. If Government borrowed money
in the time of war at certain interest, and now in tune
of pave refuse to fulfil their engagement, there
would be no longer probity or honesty in the na-
tion, for the faith of the country was bound to the
general creditor. if any part of the funded pro-
perty was touched, what would he the consequences
in such a country as this? the deeds of their
estates would be only worth so much waste paper.
Mr. CUMWEN explained.
Mr. WRING resumed and raid. that there had
been a proposal submitted to the House by an
Hon. Friend of leis, and which was approved of by
many out of doors, of a general sacrifice to pay
off the national debt; but in his opinion the plan
was only visionary, fur he knew no way of paying
debts than to pay as far as your meet's would go,
end thee as an honest man say I cats pay no more.
He did not think the picture of the distress of
Birmingham overdrawn; he also knew the agri-
culturists were in great distress. They were now in
the sixth year of peace, and there was not a single
branch of the resources of the country that
was not in a state of distress; every branch of
Industry was carried on at • loss. They had come
to • question which sought nothing, and the Hon.
ember for Cumberland's speech gave him no
futformation. The distress was not occasioned by
the change from war to peace, for the Petitioners
told them that their distresses were less in the
year 1818. lu the United States of America, the
barrel of flour which used to sell for ten dollars,
stow sold fur three dollars and • quarter; and in
that immense continent every latch of a dour cause
there from Birmingham, and the condition of the
Manufacturers of Birmingham were nut bettered.
Whatever might be the intention of Parliament. to
do their first duty was to look at the Causes of the dis.
ties.; for, in reality, the produce of the soil did not
sell at a less price than it formerly did; corn was at
60s. a quarter now, and it would bring as touch in
return as 80s. a quarter formerly did, he did not
!wan in paper, but if it was exchanged for
other articles of consumption, and if the farmer
was not in debt, lie would find it equally valu-
able ; but from the great encouragement gives
to agriculture during the war the farmers were
debt;io they bought farms at • higher rate,
much greater than their value, paid part of the
purcliere.nioney, and were now unable to pal
the remainder. This lie knew wits the case in
Somersetshire, and a great many of them were at
that moment in gaol. The increased consumption
of excisable articles, as stated by the Chancellor se
the Exchequer, was easily accouuted for: for a
man of fixed property, or the fundholder, his
soul, was now worth 1201. and they bad in-
.creased their consumption of excisable articles
accordingly ; 60 with the assessed saxes—for
the man of fixed property, who only kept one
horse, could now afford to keep two. If there
were any proof wanted to shew that this was the
cave, they bad only to look to Ireland, where there
were few fuudholders, and there the Excise was not
isacreased, It was by the means of life drone on
society that the consumption of excisable articles
had socreased, at the some lime the consumption
with the working classes of the people had de-
creased. It was impoa-itile they evir could get
out of the diatre.sed state they wete ill with.
out they uudeistood the situatioii they stood in,
and that could he only done by inquiry, the
first thing they had to look to was, the expen-
diture of the. Government, and see how much
it exceeded what it 'sac in former years. He was
not one of those who would starve the servants of
the Crown, but attention must be paid to the ex-
penditure, for there it was that retrenchment was
wanted. the Civil List, for instance, since the
year 1793, was three-fold ;if they could not go beck

~Oi`?_

y

to what it was then, let them go back as far es was
possible. It was not a very pleasant thing to be
obliged to say, that rents were not what they were.
.—Yet, gentlemen kept them up year after year nn
hopes they would get better, to the destruction
of the wot king farmer. He was of opinion, that
i 1 watslif hid" taatiow saints the eur-
relics, of the country, at the atoms tinse he- might
submit something oil the sulject during the See-
-aim foe-the couirkterwrrotrof ui truant-liter of the
whole IttiOse, to stew that around in gold was
More than a poofdd, as foreign exchange was 1141;
brit if it was thought that it would be an act of
injustice to the public creditor he would not press
it ; what he meant, was a reships deduction in the
peund, oh iti lietrig paid its gold .it the Bank.
Mr. said, the first thing the House
ought to do waste inquire into the trails of the
allegations of the Petition—for if true, there ay
feared that them-dos a nolociton iri the ceristotos.
Mon of the taticeitteries ill life of one third, whirls
wits a circumstance that strongly called fur ostitnry.
Mr. Hicartoo rose, but was ',resettled from pro-
ere 44 ll g from the Hodder* indieposinon of core of
shr Hon. Members on the hlinoteriel side of the
House (Colonel Paltenhens) who fainted, and was
asi.bi•trit out of the House iu a senseless state. Ol-
der heist; restored—
Me. RICARDO again ruse end mid, that he
tiered with his Hon. Friend (Mr. Baring) that
the present distresses of the country were to be
attlibuted to the high taxation, the suddim
change from war to peace, and the renewal of
cioli payments. His Honourable Friend tried to
she* that cora, which only now brought 60s. a
quarter, was equal in value at when it brought 80..
He could not agree to this proposition, because the
fall its the price of corn had been very severe, and
no such fall had taken 'place in any tither coca:-
modsly, for according to his atatemesit eons
hod fallen its price 45 per cent. If they were
to refer to the price of bullion in the year 1804.
wheal ngriculture was flourishing. they would find
it 5 or 6 per cent. lower thou at preserii.—
The prices of bullion were in 1816, 41. 6s. ; in
1818, 41. 2s. ; in 1819, 41. 3a. ; and in March.
1819 (the time of the chief discussiou in the House
on the subject), 4/. Is. The difference bet were
the prices then end now wits about 4 per omit.
From that depreciation. and its degree of pressure
during the present difficulties of the country. he
allowed Honourable Gentlemen who opposed
him to take credit, and no more tines that.
• Those Hououruble persons had argued the question
s if bullion, at the time of poising the late Bill
for fixing the standard, had beets at 5!. or 51. 10S.
the prices which prevailed during the latter yeara
of the war. There wins material difference its the
measure of propriety in undertakiog to fix the
standard betweeu the periods when gold was at SI.
and when it was at 41. Is. 'Had lie held a seat in
the House at the former period, he might have hesi-
tated at attempting to fix the standard of value.
For after all, it was the fixing and not the restora-
tion of the standard at which he bed aimed. -His
object was, to put it out of the power of wealthy
merchants to CROW such great fluctuations in value
as to raise or reduce the price of bullion to 51. 10s.
or to 31. 18s. 6d. Such fluctuations must be
destructive of all perouisry eugagenteets. His
object had been to ioduce the Parliament to
fix the value of the currency. The price of -bul-
lion at the time was 41. ls. and the variation
since that period had not been more than four
,per cent., a sacrifice which he conceived to
be well worth making for the sake of so important
an object as fixing the value of the currency. He-was
astonished the Hon. Member for Truman referred
Most of the distresses of the country to this regu-
lation. If such a consequence was attributable
to such a cause, why was not there something
like the same distress at the time when the
prices of bullion were the most fluctuating ? As
to the distresses of agriculture, he did not wish
to waste the time of the House upon the subject.
A great part of that distress arose from the 'effect
of the laws passed for the protection of agriculture.
It was highly desirable that commodities which
' might be increased or diminished enormously by
the occurrence of good or bad seasons, should have
a proper opportunity for venting themselves, whets-
ever the produce should become very abtutchint.
Let the House imagine the effect of two or three
good seasons on a commodity like grain, the con-
sumption of which within our own territory was li-
mited. If there were no corn laws the prices at
home would correspond with the markets of .Eu-
rope. Then. in abundant seasons, as our prices
would be within two or three shillings per quarter
of the foreign markets. the fall would be trifling,
never reaching to more than three or four shillings,
and the surplui corn would of course goforth said
seek a market in sonic other port of Europe—
whereas at present, before corn could be ex-
ported. it had to fall from the very highs urtifi-
dal prices given by the corn laws to prices which
would he perfectly ruinous before it could be
brought into the same markets with the corn of
the continent. He thought there was a greet error
in Members resuming that the poor rates end ether
taxes which had been specified fell exclusively
ott agriculture. Taxes fell upon the commo-
dity produced in all: cases, and consequently
were borne chiefly by the cousumers. • If • this
were nut the case, what right could cora have
to protection soy more than any tliiiig else'
He hoped and trusted that the period was one of
only temporary depression fur agricaltere. He
knew very well that as to a term of years-it was im-
possible for farmers to constitute to grow under a
full remunerating price. Ile wished to say a few
words oo retaining the dotsble standard of gold and
silver ; but first he wished to express the pain lie
felt at allusions having been made and cheered by
the House at attacking the interests of the pub-
lic creditor. Should that ever take place, for
which he contended that there was uo manner
of necessity, he hoped that its what the coun-
try would pay him (the public creditor), they
would not delude him doubly, and pay hint la
a coin of inferior value. There could •be au
really fixed value. but they ought to adopt that
which was nearest to a fixed • standard, He es-
phoned the probable effects Of fluctuations on debt*
and •psysamats in the muse of vetaining the double
atandard of silver bud gold, and drew so inference
in favour of the' Simple standard. In economy
lay the only hope of relieving the country from its
diEculties. Ile bad little hope of the labours of

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