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London, England, 1805-05-01 00:00:00

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life, and had therefore talked in the Isnguage of
that profession, to which he was bred, " of a chal-
lenge for came " He begged. however, as a pro-
fessional man also, to remind the Right Honour-
able..GentlismeW, that there were in our law two
amts of challenges, and that the other of them
Was " a challenge of the array," by which last
the law provides that no public officer shall chose
his own Jury, and he was astonished the Right Hon.
Gentleman sho %Ist attempt to take advantage of
being tried by .t iiiminal of his own nomittatinn.
One thing had :den solicit him must forcibly. His
Hon. Friend who brought forward this Motion had
ohjeeleil to the name of tite Noble Lord, and in the
whole course of the debate not one reason had been
given against this objedtirin The simple question
comes then fine to this, will the public be satisfied
with the nature of this proceeding? He did not
think it would: and, as he wished the House to re-
vise t: eir decision in the appointment of this Com-
mittee, he should vote for the Motion, and hoped
the Nosie Lord's name would accordingly be ex-
puoged from the li.t.
Mr. WINDHAM said, that last night, immedi-
ately before the House separated, he gave notice of
a Motion which, though different in its nature, was
similar in its effees to the present; he should, there-
fore, deliver his sentiments on this, because, after it
were disposed of, he could mak; his own motion,
which related to himself. withoutany further com-
ment. lie Alf. himself in similar circumstances, in
many respeas with the • Nohle-Lord. He had far
some pears AEted in unison with the Right, Hon.
Gentlemen, and therefore might be supposes} to en-
ter:Ain some sentiments of partiality and attachment
to him. lie thought it extremely pioper Member
should being with them dispositions of impartiality,
and especially into a Committee of this kind, which
he loped wonlsi be .an chive, zealous, scrutinising,
and Accusius Committee, eppointed to investigate
MAC important matters ; and, in conducting euch a
Committee, imper i Alit y was certainly necessary.
t Tis is not all. It is to search into evidence, and
report to the !fuse, and then the House will form
their judgment whether the report be good. %%ith
resneet to the mode of forming this Committee, he
tiouitht that theoretically there was no way ef doing
this but by lists, and nut to expect to chose ore
from one side, and another from the other, and o
netoritlise them so as that the acid may correct the
alcu:ai, and the Alculsue the acid, in equal portion,;
but whet nosy be theoretically right may be pnicti-
cMr wrong. He. therefore, did not object to taking
advice as to the Hate; but if there were a great many
t. ..so i, 2.., i our inseance, and all the names nit
only were the same in each, but All put down iii
the same order, it sheets 1 communication, and
secret understanding between the parties ; and if a
thalienging An enquiry sent this list oriei-
-. uld -- lock on it in any other light
He should not vote for any
disqualified from his con-
accused, aid must con-
as reasons for challenging
I House will let his name
- Committee. He thonght
contradion of the powers of the'
extremely wrong, and would' en-,
teas proposed to answer.
Ailing according to puth;
haps be so. In many cases
the question, and when that
use ought seriously to consider
- public with candour and fraok-
Czoer's wife, they miry not may be
',Fleeted. kly dividing the powe:s
s Househave left out .t pent, Auld
important. These rest:sees op.
became necessary the House
'-. °pillion, when that WAS red
public would otherwise :mi-
n trust to their proceedings. If
mittee, it must be ander a pin.
iiintarily he did so. lie would
enntenance to proceedings on
with confide nes, and which
oily disapproved, because he
their effecis.
\ Gli said, that not consider-
, against himself, but against
. louse, in having nominated
him on the list, he slid pot complain of it. lie
was sorry the House bed appointed him one of the
Committee ; but insensible to the arguments of the
Him. Gentleman, as to being disqualified front AA-
ing oe it fur any of the reasiens he had assigned.
He insisted that the situation he stood in, with re-
gard to his Right lion. Friend, wee no objetAiOn t
and this Committee was very different front an
Election Committee, which being a judicial privet d-
ing. and no person allowed to be absent dunug each
de)'; sitting, his public official ditty made it necee•
sire fer him to state the ince.nvenieucies that, in
such case, would arise to the public service, had he
been ballotted on such a committee as that. He
confessed his uniform and undiminished, attachment
to his Right Hon. Friend ; and whether that was of
such a description as to be the eubjel of ohjehlion,
ova; for the House to consider. As the Committee
Was rather of a judiciary nature, and at his time of
life it was such as his habits had not been schooled
is, he was inelineJ to wish the House would revise
their decision, and expunge his name from the
list, if they were of opinion he was in any degree
ieesleiehste to the due perfortn Ince of the deities of
it. As to what had bees: said of the situation
he heist in Leland, and the Jelieete transeeions
alluded to at that pert-id, he would venture to say.
their never Was a transothiou in which a greetee
sacrifice of political interest and authority was mode
(.4 era of firer! Hear ! Rear !I, than by those who
' voted for ;he public union of the two countries. Re-
sealling the charge said to have been made by his
Right lion Friend near him (Mr. Foster), he was
sure the if he had conceived it would be taken in
the way it was, he would never have brought it for-
wet el in that manner. (r 4 'reiterate..." of lie'''. ! Hear!
Beer !) He did not, however, consider it as any
charge of corruption. Having thus notit.ed the prin-
cipai arguments which had been used against him,he
bee Zed to call the etieetion of the House to the extra.
ordinary manner in which every circumstance war.
stuaismoy laid hold of, that could possibly raise at,
' odium again - :i; Rt. Hon. Frier 1 hoh4d };dined sow a
high and dew: sly exalted character, by his great
exertioos in the service of his country, while de
Hen. Gentleman opposite bad abandoned his post

,ause

men,
:nun-

and the pohlit by from the
House, when the country was in the greatest danger
and deepest distress. The Hon. Gentleman oppo
site, however, was now high in his encomiums on
the proceedings of the House of Commons, be-
cause they answered his present views and purposes;
whenever they should do otherwise, he supposed he
would resort to the newspapers again, as well as to
those clubs and other places in which he had so
of en mentioned their proceedings in the rpost de.
grading terms. He believed it was not quite regu-
lar to allude to any former debate ; but when argu-
ments were brouh;ht forward for such purposes,-he
thought liimselfjustified in adverting to circum tan-
ces and trinsaaions some time past ; and though
the lion. Gentletban was now so loud in his eulogies
on the proceedings of the House of Commons, he
thought he could not easily so neutralise his lan-
guage as to persude them to trust the safety of the
country to his hands, after the principles he had so
repeatedly professed. He begged pardon of the
House for having detained them so long, and left
the question relative to himself entirely to them.
Mr. GREY said there were some passages in the
latter part of the Noble Lord's speech, which it was
absolutely impossible for him to pass unnoticed : a
more disorderly speech he had never heard since he
had the honour of a seat in that House. It was nei-
ther more nor less than an attempt to vilify the cha-
rafter of the House of Commons, and he appealed
to the Chair itself, whether such language were COO-
sisteut with the honour and dignity of that House,?
' His Honourable Friend (Mr. Fox) was attacked in
a most unwarrantable manner ; his condua had
hen cans assed and misrepresented. The Nolde
Lord should have stated what his Hen. Friend
really had said, who had done as himself had on a
former occasion. He had abstained from e.ving
his vote when he despaired of its being serviceable
to the country (a ,ry of hear! hear!). He then went
into a general defence of Mr. Fox's speech. He
consideted that whets a Minister was to he in
some degree the subjeCt of inquiry, the House should
look very narrowly into what persons they should
nominate to be Members of that Committee, pard;
caul), when the subjeet of inquiry was official
abuse. Where a party was so closely connected in
office as the Noble Lord with the Rignt Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. Pitt),they should
-look with anxiety
to the choice they were about to make. The Noble
Lord himself m ght he subjeCt to inquiry ; he was '
a Minister actin; along with the Noble Viscount,
who was the principal subjc!l of this inquiry, and
might have been the very person to whom the
. mosey was paid, which had been misapplied. He
might be affeded by the charge that had been an isle,
and he gave :so answer. With Tripe& to the trans-
anions at th.- time of the Union, the Noble Lord
had passed a Ingo panegyric on the Irish Pashas
meat, and gave himself credit for what he termeJ a
meritorious ad, in sacrificing private interest to
public duty. That sacrifice, however, was obtained.
by the purchase of private bwoughs with the public
money. His Lordship had been harged with this
but he did not cternot a word in his own vlndicer
lion. At one time !le says there is no charge ;he
desired he might ask WO: Honourable Friend
next him (Mr. Pitt) whether there ;was or not ?—.
He was charged with givit* money for the pur-
chase of votes. That charge morel against Ow
Nulls llrrd, let him answer its enfold he screen
'aimsey, like persons who refused to acknowledge
their elinquency, under the clause ?He should,
however, only say for the present, that the charge ,
had been made, and no answer whatever had bee*
given. With resped to feelings, were h.: to change
situ di.ms with the Noble Lord. and be accused
moo shrink from the charge, without giving an
otiegnivocal denial, he should feel disgraced, and
stand in the situation of a delingnent. Abuse
of office WAS the sullied of the present investi-
gation. Public corruption was the subjeft of this
inquiry ; he, therefore, would ask waether the
Noble Lord WAS a proper person to be upon that
Committee? but when the question was agitated, the
Gentlemen on the other side found it necessity to
*her themselves under the proceedings of the•
ouse, and ay that he and his friends were endea-.
vouring to vilify the charaeler of the House, by ah-
;edits; to certain na nes in the hit for the Committee.
If those names were liable to 4.bjeSions, there was no
other way of shewing that but by the mode his Hon.
Friend had taken, and for which he deserved the
greatest thanks With respell to the m ide of .ballot,
the theory which was used in the present case was
not applic able in any other. When he abuses of
Government were the matters of complaint ; at a
time when the people, loaded with taxes, were look-
ing with the greatest anxiety to that House for re-
dress, it was their duty to adopt the most efficient
method of bringing delinquency to light, and doing
that justice which was expelled at their hands, But
his chief objeehon was to the quarter from when .e
those lists had been circulated ; a quarter where the
power was great, and influence might be pratlistel.
The Rigor Hon. Gentleman had expiessed the
great personal delicacy which . he telt upon this sub-
jea, but he declared he cqtrlcl not see any such ;
upon the whole, therefore, he consideted that those
names should be expunged from the list.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL, having made
some observations upon the use of ;mitotic opinion,
which he considered a reasonable mind should not
at all times surrender its better understanding to,
said, he considered the Home was discussing a
question which they had already disposed of;
namely, the General Meaiure of proceeding by
Ballot to appoint a Committee. The sort of Com-
mittee the Honourable Gentleman on the ether side
(Mr. %Vindham) wanted, was an accusing Com-
mittee; if that was his object, and not to render
merely justice between the parties, the present Com-
mittee would not answer ; but the House wanted
an impartial, enlightened, and enquiring Commit-
tee (a lead fry of hear bear!). He would protest,
that in order to attain the ends of Justice, the
Committee should not be composed wholly of ac-
cusing parties. The Commatee which the I ion. Gent.
thought best was a ballot Committee ; this measure
WAS etreCted, and, there was no doubt, would report
truly the facts which came before them. The Ho-
nourable (es tlemanrequired there should be sturdy
.norality used in this investigation. In those names.
which appeared on the Committee, there was no
want of zeal an the part of some of them, at least,
70 bring the tufts Is- fore the House. The Honour-
able Gentleman (Mr. Whitbread), who 41 taken.

interest

nr;th3rawin

MINIM

rtf
cw active a part, wit io be found upon thi'
list and the House might be well assured Oa
'hey had got on that committee all the material•
which would lead to the investigation of truth. I h
rhea a !veil, i to the several finalities which recom
user !ed the proceeding by ballot to form a Com-
mittee : and, in allusion to Mr. Windham's &chi
ration to have his name expunged from the Com
mittee, he said, from all the circumstances of th
case, from the individnal feeling, horn the public
charaaer and private sentrations at that lion. Gen-
tleman, he et-twittered he was the very charaefer
he tadapted to be upon t'ne Committee. Ile was
perfeftly sure that the Honourable Gentleman
did not want for zeal in the cane ; he was the
very epitome of all the good qualities requisite for
such an undertaking, and i: would be a great pity
he should not he one of them. With resped to the
other Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Whitbread), who it ap
peared would do his duty with more satisfatainn it
the Committee was appointed as he wished, he
Was satisfied their ol.jeet was to discover truth. and
-tete& guilt. There was, no doubt, from the zeal,
itefivity, and perseverance of that Hon. Gentleman.
they would be able to procure every information,
and the objets of the Committee would have their
fullest effe,9, as it was now chosen. k-le therefore
thought the mode by which the Committee hart
b ern appointed was more calculated to attain diet,
purpose, than that proposed by the Honourable
Gentleman.
Mr. Wit. on Ala, and the AT roomay GLNERAL,
severally explained.
Mr. ROlll .RT THOTiNTON thought that 60
Member could succeed in getting a list of twenty-
one members chosen, unless he consulted with his
friends upon the suhjed. A supposition had Leen
thrown out that these lists came from Gentlemen
who were of His Majesty's Government. He did
not mean to disprove that position, but there might
have been Opposition lists circulated. The No-
ble Lord, who was said to be an improper
person to -be upon this Committee, might prevail
upon his friends to put certain names in their lists.
What, then, did tile lists come by magic ? Were
they ? and was every Member obliged to
vote accordingly ? He had received one of those
lists ; hut he cled not vote explicitly from it. He
exercised his own discretion: he voted as he thought
proper, and felt justified in the vote he had given.
Mr. MARTIN (of Galway), after some preli-
minary observations, said, that should he obje,!t to
any man's being nominated to sit in a Committee, it
should not be because he was in office, or out of of-
fice, but he should entirely be guided by such a per-
son's condua in both situations. If he found him
corrupt in office, and unprincipled out of it, he
would objeft to such a man's being nominated to
any Committee (a bad crri i f Quest/G/4 ! Ques;ion !
Chair! Cuter !). He then said, he would en-
deavour to be as brief as possible, and confinit
his reply to one particular part of the Noble
Lord's (Castlereagh's) ipeech. A great clamour
had been raised by persons who had voted against
the union, and much had been.discussed upon that
subject ; although he himself had voted for that
m-asere originally, when he came 'to this country,
he had many reasons for repenting of that vote, setrue
of which he said he should talce.the liberty of stating
to Ow House. (14,-r there era, a =tares, cry gt Ni!
No / he .1 Q.t.!! iloa Ql4 414.04 I Chair ! Chwie
Which, upon %..Ir. Manna's attempting to proceed,
encesased to a great degree ; asFlen, .
The Sl*EAKER.observed, that it was his duty I
to tell the Hon. Member, that his observations did
not at all bear upon the question then before the
Huse.
NIT. MARTIN answered, that he thought they
might be applied in answer to the Noble Lord.
The SPEAKER repeated his former ob•erva-
tion, and the question being loudly reiterated from
all parts of the House, the strangers were ordered
to withdraw.
The House then divided, and there appeared,
For the Motion 86--Against it 219—Majority 133.
Strangers were not again admittod to the Gal-
lery ; but we understand that Mr. Windham, pus-
suant tq his notice, moved that his name should I e
expunged from the list. On this the House divided.
For the Motion, SO—Against it 207.—Majority,
I`27.—Ailjourned at TWELVE o'CLOCK.

The Con,,non Conned of the city or London
yesterday voted a Petition Co Parliament,.
sagyest
the Catholic Question. •
. ,
•
An hosti!ss feeling was Aso expre -d sgStiSt thai
measure, at hho. late Elektion of Mr. CI ATCAN, for
•(ember of Parliament for the Borough of Mahon;
in Yorkshire.
A Letter from Dublin, of the 16th, state:, that
the Corporation of •that City, at their General
loaner Assembly, also voted a Petition to Partia- •
:nent against the Catholic Question.
A report prevailed last night, that the Tonloti
telt had effe:led a, junftion with the sqtridivn at
Ferrol, and that Sir dons OMR had been compelled
o abandon far a time the blockade of Cadiz.—Thee
had again put to sea, but their destination was not
4:flown. •
•
Dispatches were yesterday reeeiVed at the Admi-
ralty from the Commander of the Channel fleet.
They were landed at Plymouth from .the Afetarepat
frigate on Sunday. They are reported to contain
information of the Brest Beet basing again indicated
a determination to put to sea.
An animated debate took place last night in the
House of Commons. While the Members com-
posing the Minority were in the lobby, ilk. Sam-
_
one informed them that he understood theite woold
be no objeftion on the part of the Minister m light- •
tended Motinu for a vote of thanks to the Commis- •
sioners of Naval Enquiry; yet, as he thought there
might be some manoeuvre Made use of, such as the
previous question, or the like, for the purpose of
pressing a division ; he gave notice that their aittind.
ance would be neressarv. •
Yesterday morning, about nine o'clock, thelloTAL
FAMILY left Windsor. Her MAJZSTY and the
Pe tricessts arrived at the Queen's-house at twelve.
The Kimo went by Richmond, whey' His
JESTY changed horses, and proceeded to Blackheath,
and dined with the Princess of Wates, from which •
place His MAJESTY arrived at the Queen's-haw
about five o'clock. In the evening, tee Rovat.
FAMILY honoured Covent-Garden "Thaatie with
their presence.
Princess AUGUSTA remains at Windsor, on ac-
count of 'hr of
The Gazette of last tight gives no re, that a.I r.
yee will be held at at. ,:ass day—and
Drawing-room. to-morrow,
Yesterday, the RUSSIAN Alta Asssisoa transeflesil
business at Lord MusonsveS Office, from lfailpast
One tut three.
The Klee has been pleased to appoint wit.trA
Bt.' oil, Esq. to be Captain-General and Governor in
Chief, in and over the settlement of New booth
Wales.
New York Papers have been received to tie 16t,
of March. One of them mentions a report sate
to have been broiught by a vessel from Cape Fran-
cois, of DEsss to us es having, on the 28th of Febru-
ary, defeated the French garrison at the town of St.
Domingo, and massacred the greater part of the
Spanish inhabitants. This rumour, however, is not
stated as deserving of any credit.
" A letter from the Hague, dated April 20, says.—
" M. S.chimmelpenninck was employed. in conjunc-
tion with Admiral De Winter, in taking maim*s
for the futur • organisation of the Dutch Marit4.
He is also employed with the General in Clod
Marmont, and the Batavian Lieutenant-Gegen'
Dumoncean, in organising the Dutch Army. uts
result of these measures. however, doss not appear
to consist in so considerable a redutti ni as was 4t
first announced. It is understood that it is re- .
solved, that the cavalry shall be reduced to three •
regiments, and the infantry to eight. The forintr
to consist of a regiment of heavy cavalry a regi-
w
ment of dragoons. and a regime* of hussars. s
and the infautry of tie present twenty-one bat-
talions, and the chasseurs. Each regiment will con-
tain 1400 men, consequently the army of tee
republic will consist of only 15,000 men, instead of.
21.000. including the artillery."
An old sulky Gentleman lately asked, why so
many people ventured in the Lottery ? His Friend
answered, .0 FORTLNE is blind, and if you don't
throw yourself in her way, she wo'n't stumble on ,
you."
Yesterday. five Priamen were rapiially c•noW t.l
at the Old Bailey foe stealing wool, and two bro-
thers for hotise-breaking.
If, according to the old adage—" The first Blow
is half the Battle," it is submitted to the votaries of
Fortune, whether an attempt to hie the First Drattn
Number, that is entitled to 10,0001. in the present
Grand Lottery, be not an objet cf much count- -
qiience ? 'Tis huts., indeed, that there is a consider-
able number of otl.•er capital hits to be made in this
pre-eminent Scheme ; but no wise adventurer will
surely let slip an opportunisy of crowning himsdt,
in the very offset of the Dran log, wit':. vicliri,sirs
wealth.
We trust it is the well known principle cf The Rol"-
hah Pre+, to applaud merit wherever it me she
found—and, at the same time,to steer clear • ITS
bias, by either party In justice, thetethre, u the

t. ior instance
.at only were the same in ea
;-:1 the same order, it shew
secret uaderstanding beta
person challenging An in
Ist, n he c •uld not lock
then ► nominAt7on. He
cr.. one whom he thought
neCtion with the party
tie vier these circumstanr.s
an. himself, and request the
the esponged from the I
division anti contrafli
but mrttee were extreinel
the ly defeat the ends it
.had berm accused if
the nion, sad it might pelt
blic op.aion made the
lark: as the ease, the House
he , and to treat the puLtlit
Le of s, so that, like Caesar's
inn, nre, hut not even sisspeet
0.11 of :he Committee, the Ho
he that by far the most impc
such ply to himself. It heca
He• should satisfy the public c
the sonably excited; the pul
pi-41 the House, and not ti
t:.e he went into the Conamitt
nen- test thAt ir was not
• net not consent to give cow
list; which he could not enter
prier he must dt‘lare be totall
wted could have no hope of th
He r Lord cAsTLEitEAC
ras ing the charge as made a
ilea- the decision of the Hot

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