The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1826-02-25 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS, FRIDAY, FEB. 24.

COMPOSITION OF TITHES.
Mr. Johnson, from the (Mice of the Chief Secretary of Ireland.
brought up a return of the number of parishes in Ireland which had
agreed to the Composition of Tithes.
LONDON DOCK COMPANY.
Mr. Johnson, from the London Dock Company. brought up a
return of receipts and disbursements of the London Dock Company
from the 30th Nov. 1824, to the 30th Nov. 1823.
MANCHESTER AND LIVERPOOL RAILWAY.
Lord STANLEY presented a petition from certain individuals
resident in Atherstoo, in Lancashire, preying for leave to be heard
by Counsel againat the Manchester and Ltverpool Railway.
EDINBURGH AND DAIJKEITH RAILWAY.
Mr. DUNDAS presented a petition from certain individuals in
Edinburgh, for leave to bring in a Bill to cor.struct al Railway from
Edinburgh to Dalkeith ; and another petition for leave to bring in
a Bill for the better watering, &c. the City of Edinburgh.
HARBOUR (IF LEITH.
Mr. DUNDAS presented a petition from the Provost, Bur-
gesses, and inhabitants of Leith, for leave to bring in a Bill to
improve the Harbour of Leith.
SCHOOL FOR TILE INDIGENT BLIND.
Mr. HOLFORD presented a petition for the better regulation
of the School for the Indigent Blind.
TITHES IN THE CITY OF LONDON.
Mr. Alderman WOOD presented a petition praying for the abo-
lition of tithes in the perish of St. Giles's, Cripplegate Without,
and to make a compensation to the Rector In lieu thereof.
HARBOUR OF MARGATE.
Eij E. KNATCH BULL presented a petition from the Margate
' Joint-stock Company, for leave to amend the Bill for the enlarge.
ment of the Harbour of Margate, and to extend the powers thereof.
RAMSGATE THEATRE.
Sir IL KNATCH BULL presented a petition from certain indi-
viduals, praying the repeal of the Statute 10 George 11., as far as
related to the town of Margate, and to enable his 31 ajesty to grant
license and letters patent to erect a theatre in that town.
GLASGOW GAS-LIGHT COMPANY.
Mr. A. CAMPBELL presented a petition from the Glasgow
Gss.light Company, praying for leave to raise a further sum by
the sal; of shares of that Company, to enable them to carry the ob-
jects of the Company into effect.
SIR WM. HARPER'S FOUNDATION SCHOOL.
Mr. WHITBREAD presented a petition from Bedford. for
leave to bring in a Bill for the better management of the funds of
the late Sir William Harper, and Alice his wife, for the establish.
ment of a School at Bedford.
NEW CORN-EXCHANGE IN MARK-LANE.

Mr. FARRAND (as we understood) presented a petition from
the corn-factors of Mark-lane, praying that the Bill for building a
Corn.rxehange in Mark-lane should not pass in its present form.
He said that the petitioners did not pray that the Corn exchange
elould not be built, but that the present Corn-exchange, which had
been erected so many years, should be done away with.
Sir EDWARD K'NATCHBUI.I. supported the petition.
DALLAS ESTATE BILL.
The Report of the Dallas Estate NM was brought up, and read
a second time.
ABOLITION OF SLAVERY.
Lord ALTHORP presented a petition from Wellingborough,
in Northamptonshire, praying for the abolition of slavery. Or-
dered
to be printed. Similar petitions were presented by Mr. Cal-
vert from Hertford; by General Phipps front the Borough of
Scarborough • by Mr. Ashuret from the clergy and inhabitants
of the parish of Hooknorton in Oxfordshire; by Mr. Whitmore
from the bailiff, corporation, and magistrates of Mr.
;
by Sir Thomas Lethbridge from Stamford and Arundel;
by Mr. Gooch from Longtoft ; by Mr. Ilume from the cities 6f
Aberdeen and Montrose, and from the parishes of Piteligo and
Belhaven in Aberdeenshire; by Mr. Angelo Taylor from the
Protestant Convocation of Dissenters denominated Baptists resident
in Durham.—Ordered to be printed.
BILL FOR THE RECOVERY OF SMALL DEBTS.
Sir JOHN POLLEN presented a petition from the tradesmen
of Andover, in favour of
the hilt fo
BANr the recovery of small debts.
SOTCKS.
Mr. DUNDAS presented a petition from the Chamber of Conti
merce of Edinburgh against any alteration in the banking system
of Scotland.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. LINDSAY presented a similar petition from the clergy
and magistrates of Perth ; he said that the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer having intimated his intention to alter the banking system
of Scotland, considerable anxiety was felt on the subject in thkt
country ; the petitioners thought there was no necessity to alter al
system under which Send mil had flourished so many years, and
*Filch bad greatly benetited that 'country, without producing any
injury to this. He coincided in theviews of the petitioners, and
hoped the Home would not allow that system to be altered.
Capt. GORDON presented a similar yctition from the town and
council of Aberdeen.
CORN LAWS.
Mr. HUME presented a petition from the inhabitants of Perth,
praying for a free trade in corn., as well as other articles. Ile said
that the petitioners complained of the high price of bread, anti
thought that they should have the advantages of free trade extend.
ed to an article which was of such general consumption.
Petitions were presented from Stockbridge, Andover, ‘Vincliee. '
tee, Leamington, Basingstoke, Alton, and Romsey, praying for an
alteration in the Corn Laws.
WINDOW TAX.
AIL HART DAVIS presented a petition from the Oafish of St.
James, Bristol, praying for a repeal of the Window-tax.
TOBACCO AND SNUFF.
Mr. PEARCE presented a petition hom the manufacturers of
tobacco and snuff of the town of Desiree, praying for a reduction
of the duty on those articles.
Mr. WM. SMITH presented a similar petition from the ma-
nufecturcrs of tobacco and snuff of the town of Norwich. lie saki'

EXCHEQUER BILLS.
Mr. ELLICE said that, seeing the Right Hon. Gentleman (the
Chantellor of the Exchequer) in his place, he was induced to put
a question to him. which he considered of importance. Some
years since a considerable amount of Exchervier bills was advanced
to Commissioners, in order to be lent to the public for the carrying
on of public works and the employment of the poor. He under-
anvil that a considerable number of them remained undisputed ot.,
and as he (Mr. Ellice) had learned an application had been made to
Government for an advance on account of the bills so undirposed 01,
the object of his present question was to know whether :hat appli-
cation had been considered.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he had
heard nothing. whatever from the Commissioners on the subject of
the application alluded to by the Hon. Gentleman ; all let he rind
heard on the subject a as. that a private letter had been sent to him,
not directly from the party claiming. but from another person to
whom it was addressed. The individual certainly did ask if the
Commissioners would grant him relief, and it was his (the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer's) opinion that from what appeared in .he
statement the case submitted might come under the Act which
regulated the matter in question but Government never took upon
itself to interfere, nor would it be justified in advising the Com-
missioners as to the line of conduct they were to pursue. In an-
awes, therefore, to the question that had been put. he could say
that no application of the nature in question had been made to his
Majesty's Government.
Mr. ELLICE then gave notice that on Tuesday next he' should
more for a return of the amount of Exchetmerbills advanced by the
Contruissioners ; anti also an account of the repay-mints that had t
been made on account of the same.

been read,
reTe
alidx,AtchlleHEt.:l
ofToiheettoCyH:wtroCciEj
hleoLOviogßß
QouLs'eErßesummorid diheedoerbestetre
adjourned from last night, on the petition of the manufacturers of
Spitaltields against the introduction of foreign silks.
Mr. A. BARING said that he believed that every body who
had heard the able speech of his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Huskis.
son) would admit a greater effect had never been produced upon
that House, than by the ability and eloquence displayed in that
speech ; at the same time, if Gentlemen would favour him (Mr.
Baring) with their patient attention, be should be able to show,
and he trusted to conviction, twat able as it was, it touched very
lightly indeed on the main question, that of the silk trade. Ilia
Rt. llon. Friend had complained that Gentlemen on that side ot the
House had charged his Majesty's Ministers with being insensible
to the distressed state of the country ; but when Gentlemen said
that, they did not mean to say that Ministers were insensible from
a want of feeling, but born a want of a proper sense of the distresses
of the country. lie would give his Majesty's Ministers credit for
sensibility, but as to a knowledge of the real state of distress they
were wholly ignorant. There was no doubt that the measure his
alsjesty'it alinisters were pursuing in regard the silk trade must
be very painful to them, and that they were sacrificing their feel.
ergs on the subject; but as it was Uone from a sense of public duty,
he gave them the greatest praise for the correctness of their invin-
tion,. His Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Huskisson)had proceeded to
state his view of the general state of the traae of the country, zed
went into that at considerable length. lie had also remarked on
a former petition presented to that House, as to the observatioal
which he (Mr. Baring) had made upon it. He certaible
was not answerable for the correctness of that report, bat
was free to admit that he would not say. Lut it wks
a correct statement of the arguments he had used on that
oceasien, and those opinions he did as decidedly stand up for at the
present moment as he did then. The state of the country at that
time was a very extraordinary one, going from a long and
torus war into a state of general peace. The affairs of the customs
and finance were in such a state of contusion end embarrassment,
that it was quite impossible for any man to know what he was to
do veto the laws regulating those departments:. it was quite im-
possible that he could get at the information be requireo on that
subject. Those circumstances were the result ofihe proceedinga of
a Right lion. Gentleman now no more, the uprightness of whose
intentions he was willing to acknowledge, but unfortunately that
was the state in which he left the country. The former yeti. ion
prayed for a regulation of that system, and also for a reduction (a'
charges, and fur a free trade. Tile lion. Gentleman said he weakt
maintain that there was nothing inconsistent in what be dui then,
when compared with the line of conduct he pursued now. His
Right lion. Friend the President of the Board of Trade had stated
his severe opposition to the errors of practical men ; certainly never
were cases in which so much of irritation and animosity had arisen
as in those of the silk and cotton trade ; they were greater than ever
was mixed up with a party question. It might be that the absents
of party questions gave a necessity for irritation, when speaking of
cotton, silk, or Bank notes, for certain it was that they ware never
mentioned without producing that feeling. Ilia Right lion k ri
. end
also, in the course of his speech, had made the most severe accuse.
lions against persons in the silk trade, but they were groundless ;
the persons in question were most honourable men, anti he thouyht
he should be able to satisfy the House that they had done nothiva
of which to be ashamed. \Vial respect to the principles ot tie s
trade, all that he (Mr. Baring) maintained was, that the principles
of tree trade did not preclude the adaptation of particular circuit!.
stances to particular things. The general principle 4 of freedom cf
action had nothing to do with particular measures and particular
things. Certainly the burden of proof rested with the persoit
claiming the exception ; but, there was no suasion why an exceottoo
should not exist to the principle of free trade air regarded pariCulee
articles, and it was quite clear that circumstances might exist where
such exception should be made. The Honourable Member rad he
would ask if the trade of the country wait not toll of exceptions in
all its parts ? In the very case of the question that had been put
by the lion. Member fur Norfolk, it appeared that in that county
a duty was paid on coal brought coastwise, while the manatee.
tutees of other counties paid nthing; therefore, exceptions wita.
out end existed, and it thereofore became ne,essary for Par.
hainent to listen to the application for exception, or at once to
go into the general subject. Ile muted that a Learned Boctor
would be appointed to a professorship of political economy in the
University of (littera, anti he also hoped there would be law to
London, and that the country would be imbued with a limper feel.
ing on the subject of that science. If Gentlemen took the trouble
to read the books published on the subject of political economy,
they would find, instead of there being any thing like inathem..
tical agreement, that on the subject of the Corn Laws. au. ey
all radically differed. If that was the case among the prase's;
scientific persons, he (Mr. Baring) should not be disposed to
change his opinion until (jentlemen of the Loudon Untvoisity bad
arrived at a perfect knonledge of the subject ; then, and not ttli
then, he should give way. lie could wish that Hun. (lentiernen
would look to the more humble man, whose bank w,a :Sri.. and
it was upon facts alone that relief should be pursued. His Right
Hon. Friend the President of the Board of 'fuse hid been very
eloquent on the subject of what he considered let 1 Mr. Haring's)
inconsistency on the queetion of the Silk Trade, sad he hopefflin
iihoulti not be at all wanting in respect to his Right lion. Tel
it he presently called his attention to the upitruni of snot hie
beamed Doctor. lie begged to Rey that he not oppossd. to
Right lion. Friend on other subjects, hut only on that ot vac,. la
the question of currency he had differed way sae to tare, he
thought his lion. Friend was going too fast. and he did not whin to
move at all until the country should be to a bt state for the par.
paw. He Would now look at the coarse pursued by his Rhine
ilon. Friend apon a question which must be considered of so very

trilling a nutcase. In 1810 the country was engaged to an arduous
and sanguinary war—such a war as God forbid should occur again.
There was then hardly a guinea in the country, and his Right Hon.
Friend recommended to the Houle, and publishedllis opinion in a
pamphlet, that in two years from that time it would be proper to
return to cash payments, and that at a time wten France would l
net make peace: yet his Right Hon. Friend wrote, spoke, arid 1
weed toe a return to payment in sperm. Would his Right Hon.
Friend say that was his opinion now.
HVSKISSON—EntireIy,
Mr. BARINO—The House would at once see the utter ab.
satiny et such a measure. and that his Right Hon. Friend was
not quite so steady a pilot as to be trusted witb such a measure
shining war • and even at present, in time of peace. there was ell.
Mindy considerable difficulty in getting one poun4 miter oat of
peculation. The lion. Gentleman said he would leave the subject
with the Moue and let them judge. He could not charge his Hon.
Friendwith Inconsistency, ause he had avowed his determine.
uon so abide by his opinion. He would now come to the second
cue. and from which his Right Hon. Friend could not escape—it
watt the corn qurstior. In 1615 his Right Han. Friend advocated
the system of advancing the protecting price of corn fromll6e. to
691. pee quarter. He (31r. Baring) was in very bad favour with
the House at that time, and was in a minority, but that was a dr.
comstance of which he was not ashamed. Would his Rtght Hon.
Friend now vote for the protecting duty on corn? He would be glad
to know if the opinion expressed in 1815 was the one lie would now
abide by. When the House came to that question he would say
that it ought to have been a reduction of ptotetting dap/ but that
was a question that would be discussed as s separate one, and there-
' tom he should leave the two eases for his Right Honourable Friend
to explain to the /louse. Ten years ago a Committee was apt
pointed on the question of the Silk Rill. and upon that ores.
bion he (Mr. Baring) was opposed to his Right Honourable
Friend, and was then also in a minority ; he had contendetlthat by
that Rill. the inanufaciurer would be sacrificed to vie throaster.
his Right Honourable Friend had then decided that 7s. 6d. was
the proper protecting duty, but it was to be supposed that, seeing
las error, he had without the consent of Parliament reduced the
euty from 7s. 6,1. to for., and that betrayed a total absence of infoe.
riation as to the subject of that measure. Whether the throw stet
...tight to be protected at all was quite out of the business ; those
were liart4, and !arta were most essential to the discussion of the

question belbee the Meuse. Re would ask his Right Honourable
**resod. as to the protecting duty of 7s. 6d. whether the, opinion
warn cotoome to carelmsly and in haste, and whether it was not
totally insufficient for the purpose for which it was proposed ?
When he found his Right Honourable Friend legislating for
hur.dreds of thousands of persons, he did not observe that seemliness
which should induce him (slr. Baring) to alter his opinion. He
would 00w say that the resolutions of the Committee of le2o
had been most ably followed up by the Right Honourable
the Master of the Mint (Mr. Wallace), and he must say
that in nerd to the trade of the country hit 3lajesty's Ministers
had done more good then any other set of men whatever, and he
tr.pst say that if the merchants of London, and indeed of England
generally did wet reoallect what had pseud they must be most
ungrateful. Those measures had relieved the country from most
objectionable drawbacks on the prosperity, of comdierce; they had
rebored the tourney from the Navigation Laws, front the system of
ettargeenfront the system of bounties. from the system of protecting
Manes, and City of Lenden rose charge*. It was the port of Lou.
don to wbachohips now came in consequence of the measures of
hie Meeestes Government, and to whom the ingehants of England
owed so much. At the same time that herald this he was perfectly
• ware that the effect of such arrangements could not be known stn.
ell they had been tried ; it was necessary to know the practical re.
salt before the good or evil of a measure could be determined on.
Times was one question of considerable ireportanee, which was
'rte reciprocal charges on shipping, which he wished to bring
tinder the car.sideration of bra Right Honourable Friend.
It was surprising to see the number of American ships that
• went into tin: port of Liverpool, as well as Dutch and other
feeeignars Into that of London. He could not but hope that
what the question should be examined England should have
her shark In Liverpool there were nothing but American flap
is be seen in the harbour. He had thought it necessary to bring
the question under the eye of his Right Hon. Friend, in order that
the principle of theory might not be carried berms' proper bounds;
fir he could not but consider that whets that was the case it was a
bad principle of gov..rnmein. In the ease of the small notes the
Homey= required to some to a decision without consulting prac.
tical men as to the question of bullion. When they came to the
silk queition they were required to take off the prohibition at all
risks, and at the danger of extinguishing the trade and giving no
protection whatever. Then as to Exchequer bills, the same prin.
ciple pervaded, because the principle of interference was contrary
to the principles of politics! economy, which were to be set up
• against general practice. No circumstances were to warrant excep.
time = the principle was to be pushed to all extremes. England
was a country with interests much too large to apply general prin.
ciples without extreme injury. If the country was to be delivered
over to the theories of political economists, it was necessary to show
the Houk that there was no absurdity into which it would not be
lads. Upon the lint principles of the *dense they all differed in
the widest manner. He (tit. Baring) would look at the theory of
a late Member of that House, a Gentleman now no more (Mr.
lu,ordo), and of whom he begged to be considered se speaking
with the greatest respect : his was a most fanciful theory, and yet
in theory it was perfect, that of making a compensation between
the property of the country and the public debt; but this perfect
ninny was wholly nugatory in practice. Mr. Ricardo's system of
honking also was completely exploded ; and yet such were the
Items by which Parliament were to be guided. Mr. MeCulloch
Woo wrote to show that abseoteeship did no harm to Ireland. If
ever there was an shstudity expressed it was in that opinion.
Mr. hieCulloch's opinion of the Irish country gentlemen he should
be ashamed to state in that House, where the contradiction
In Ms proposition was so maifestly shown. Mr. McCulloch said
that it Lord Hertford, who was a large possessor of property in
Ireland. resided :n Paris, and spent his money there, that it did no
MOM barns to Ireland then the King of Franceopending his mo.
Rey in Paris. That was certainly reductil ad nlntro-datn. Ile
(tlr. Baring) only stated this to show what was to become of the
country if the House was to be guided by such theories. The er.
rots of practical men might be just as absurd, but practical
rsen acted with a little Itisa contempt of each other than the
theorists did, and might come to a decision upon a question
of common sense. Tile object of the petitioners in asking for
'a committee called the attention of the House for the first time,
and the question was, that having had a peculiar trade in an
artiflnial state, we were about to give up that which had
teen its peculiar protection. It had long been known that
'France bad a most decided superiority, and yet it was proposed
to throw down the barrier which had existed with a protecting duty
of 30 per cent. He (Mr. Baring) would say that the question of
the silk trade had never been understood until now. The House
bad been told that such was the capital of the country embarked in
th s trade that it would give England the superiority, and on that
point the manufacturers appeared wise as ignorant as his Majesty's
Lovernment, for it was found there was abundance of capital in all
the pieces on the Continent where the trade was carried on, and in
point of machinery and manufacture England was far -behind
tot foreign manufactories. The capital embarked at Basle
was considerably more than that of England, and therefore as
far ais he (Mr. Baring) coald judge from the Information be
could collect front all parts of the country. the English
ossufacturers are in a state of most decided disadvantage.
An experiment had been made on the Continent to ascertain the
difference which actually existed between the capabilities of England
and of those foreign countries with which she had to compete. The
sistonotte was taken at Zurich, at Lyons, and at Basle. At these
places thi manufacturers who had been deputed purchased the
goods with the permission 01 Government, and the result of the test
test, that at Lyons the difference was 45 per cent.; in Switzerland
the difference was from 50 to 60 per cent. upon plain, and from 60
to ISO per cent. upon figured articles. If Gentlemen reflected on
this coleulauon but toe a moment, it must surely be quite evident
that the duty of 30 per cent. could not be considered in any respect
a•erosecting one. But in fact those who were acquainted with
the d-:ails of these matters were well aware that the 30 per cent.
was merely theoretical, and 13 practical Kea sunk to twenty.
reo titan couhi give employment, under such circumstances,
so as to enable his workmen to subsist. He would freely
cootesi that he knew very little or nothing on this subject
to east& him to speak with the accuracy of a practical man ;
btit if he had not derived information by personal experience,
be could assure the House that his statements were founded on the
eonr.trrera testimony of men on whose sincerity, respectability, and
istelligence, he could rely with the fullest confidence. He was'
aware that still he would be regarded as a person who might have
unintnitinnally, if not designedly. given exaggerated accounts. In
imply for s ;rued ask those Gentlemen who entertained such suppo.
aitioes to inquire, and they would unfortunately be convinced
that th• silk trade was in a most unsound and unwholesome
condition front top to bottom, in the beginning, the middle, and
tri-c end. It was imprudent to have entered into a system which
1.1 produced such effects, and it would be wise to correct the evil
as earditionsly as po.sible. The Hon. Member for Coventry
( Mr. Ellice) had seated that the utmost price which could be af-
t for labour was four shillings per week, under the circurn-
s,ancea with witch the manufacturers in this country had to con.
teed. Now it should be considered that the price of labour de-
pends on the price of subsistence, tot- with the tacility of procuring
the means of living the payment of labour snould always amour.
In this teepeet however. there existed a fearful disparity between
the English and the foreign manutacnirers, altogether in favour of
tho latter. The silk .manufacturer of Lyons had all the supply
of Provence at their hacks; and the manufacturers of Switzer_
)stud ornisessei not only the same opportunity but had also the
5.1 k Of holy sk command. These 9cilities were productive of
immense edvanagee to the continental competitors of this country.
There was. moreover, another consideration in respect to the dif.
fr. esee which existed in the article of food. The price of pioyi.
pons 9'll not only less. but, from the nature or habits of the
category, the foreign wotkman requires' less food than was deemed
sueS dent here. Thus, that the English manufacturer should be
on a par with the continenewl nee so this respect, the workman of
this mildewy must be compelled to pay more and to eat lees food
this Is requisite for his mature! sustenance. Should uo regard be
pail to the decrease of strength and to the diminution of health
which must result to the individuals who would be the victims of
sub a eanduelnn le That such a difference of cfrcumstances did
▪ to the prejudice of the labourer of this country. was a matter
vech admitted of vary clear proof. One of die workmen who had
1.11,141 its usis noway front Lyons seated the nuke of a manufac-
._,‘"V et that sly wbe steed so far on the principle as to un.
~.
--r"we la bed and to lodge the BM In big emmployment.For
tbs.
.4....,1""11e5e he provided a mieseable room over his manufactory,
homed foe the bed and the banquet. But such a state of
4.."11 4CC.11111e1114111011 as was thus afforded, and considered ade-
quate; IS dal waste of the inmates, and against which they lid hot

motthur, was totally incompatible a ith the enjoyment of a particle I
of what WY considered to constitute either comfort or convenience
in this country. It may be objected that he did not enter deeply
into the subject that he was merely ekimining along the surface,
and should look to the bottom of the system, to enable hint to ap.
ineciato its full value. But, however incomprehensive his views
might be, he could not overlook the obvious advantages which the ,
price of labour and of food furnished to the adversaries of this
kingdom. Great imited sheubl be the prospective benefits
to compensate the injures which the present system engendered.
But contel it be a question that the silk trade of this country would
survive a trial of two years under so many oppressioos ? The
experiment, it persevered in, must witness its itanihilation in the
interval. Would his Right lion. Friend (Mr. Iluskisson) go
so far es to suppose seriously that the duty—the protecting duty,
as it was called—of thirty per cent., or more correctly of
twenty per cent., was sufficient to enable the English work.
man to contend successfully against his foreign rivals, or
even to procure the means of bare subeistence? DOstruttion
stored them in the face, and must be of the most extensive appli.
cation. Great numbers had been brought up to the trade, when it
was not contemplated that the present course of detrimental policy
would hare been adopted. What, then, was to be done with those
individuals who mast necessarily be thrown all at once upon the
resources of the country? They could not be blamed with having
entered into a dangerous and delusive speculation. Such an excuse
for tat sympathising with their misfortunes ,as had been alleged in
other instances, could not apply to the suffering workmen, whose
only imprudence consisted in becoming members of a trade at a
time when its appearance was prosperous and its psospeets were
exhilarating. VI ere these men not deserving of txtranuseration,
because they had the indiscretion of not anticipating that their
trade should be rendered subservient to the experimental introduc-
tion of a new system of free trade ? Sum a species of temerity
surely deserved compassion rather than censure. Vs hardened
CO the cireumstancegof the new system, he did not feel surprised at
the evasive course which his Right Honourable Friend (Mr. Has.
kisson) had pursued in his speech last night. lie did not touch on
the subieet, but seemed studiously to avoid all contact with it. The
Right Honourable Gentleman had not conveyed a particle of in-
formation on that point, tbr he I:11r. Baring) anxiously listened
during the progress of his speech for sonic explanation, and at its
conclusion he found himself just as much informed as at the com.
meneement. The Right Hon. Gentleman had indeed spoken of
the new system of s free trade, but he had confinel his declara-
tions on that point to the general effects and benefits whieli he anti-
cipated from its operations. Ile (Mr. Baring) would have expe-
rienced much gratification if the Right lion. Gentleman had been
more particular in this matter--if lie had not indulged in hopes so
sanguine as to prevent hint front recurring to the probability, or
even the passibility of the fallacy of his protects. It would have
been Consolatory to know be, the Right lion. Gentleman meant to
meet the contingency of failure; but as to any measures which.
were to relieve the suffering people in ease of the occurrence of
failure, they were left to guess in total darkness. It would have
been more prudent to have held out some signal of teller against
the apprehension of a possible casualty, for it really was a subject
calculated to excite alarming reflections at any time, but puttee-
lady at the present period. For, if the experiment had bean made
at a time when the condition of the cotton and woollen manufac-
tories was such as to afford an opportunity of giving support to
those workmen who might have been thrown out of employment in
the silk trade by the unsuccessful bums of the new regulatiote,
the prospect of that refuge would afford some alleviation; but
even under that view it would be exceedingly awkward, from their
preciously acquired habits to trust men on the 'meant into a trade
of a different character from that in which they had been brought
up. But the cotton and the woollen trades were by no mesas
such a flourishing condition as to afford that refuge for the destitute.
In fact they were overstocked, and, to such a degree that several
hands were dismissed. The prospect of relief in those quarters
must therefore be looked on as extremely dismal for strangers,
when those who had been bred up to those departments of business
were turned adrift. The cotton and woollen manufacturers naturally
reduced their expenditure until they should find how the system
worked in regard to the silk trade, which had been destined to un-
dergo the first experiment of its influence. (Hear, hear, hear.)
But instead of competing with the Continent, there is too
much reason to apprehend that the silk trade of this country
will not only be excluded front foreign places, but will not be able
to stand in the home market. (Hear, hear.) One of the opti.
mists had indeed expressed his opinion that ail things in this coun-
try are moving in a favourable train, and are in the proper course
to come right. But such an expectation is not justified by circum-
stances; such a consequence is inconsistent with the natural relation
between cause and effect. If things were allowed to go on in the mode
that has prevailed of late, the House might depend on it that the
silk trade would vanish from the country. It was not to be ex-
pected that there was any reason why it should be permanent here
any more than in other places, from which it had shifted its posi-
tions in consequence of any injudicious treatment. Thus it had
gone from the Mediterranean ports to Holland, and thence It had •
arrived in this country. The same consequences must be ex-
pected here nom a similar !mole of mismanagement, for there did
not exist any charm in this countrylto retard its progress to America
or elewhete. There was great danger that it would go by little and
little to America, to France, to Germany, and other places, for it
was in a manner continually oozing, and in process of dine might
ultimately be totally drained off. Thus the country would be
left in the condition of one which once enjoyed prosperity, and
now possessed only the recollection of its departed wealth-4
state of the most desperate wretchedness. Such a condition was
much worse than when a country wss originally struggling to attain
prosperity, for it was natural to incipient attempts to meet difficul.
Mae which hope encouraged it to surmount ; but it was a poignant
reflection to a state that bad been once prosperous to consider that
It had been reduced from its elevation, and should have again to
travel up the ascent front which it had been degraded. The feelings
of former happiness is a great aggravation of present misery.
When he had observed that the Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Hut-
kwon; was reluctant to enter on the subject of the Corn Laws, he
was aware of the extreme objection which he had to meddle with
these matters, however he might be sensible of the propriety of
altering and amending them. Whatever was to be the consequence
to the country, that Right Hon. Gent, knew that there was a wrong
interest opposed to the necessity of the case ; but if some measure
be not shortly adopted in this respect the consequences will be most
detrimental to the country. Another consideration in connexion
with this subject was derivable from the naval preponderance of
Great Britain. This was a source of prosperity to the silk trade of
this country ; for in the course ore century there was not a conti-
nuance of peace on an average for more than 12 yea... Be
should be sorry to be understood as expressing a desire that the
country should be plunged in war merely to promote $ branch
of its trade. Ile was far from wishing to purcloae the benefit
at such a rate. lie merely intended to state that while war
prevailed the naval superiority_ of the country enabled the ma-
nufacturers to command a sufficient supply of the raw material,
while, if the ports of their rivals were not blocked up the caps.
bility of their procuring a sufficient quantity of the raw material
became exceedingly procarioue. The nianufacturer of this country
can then go on the principle that he is at all events secured by
his naval preponderance. Every day of prim contributed to reduce
and wear away dust advantage. But that advantage )lid not apply
to cotton, or to any other of the manufactures of the country, and
perhaps that was the reason why the French silk trade when opposed
in time of war, ditlinot succeed. The silk trade had hitherto been
the great fivoutite of the Government of the country, on account of
the opposition to which it was liable. It was exceedingly desirable
to proceed with caution in this matter, for the sinking from the
advantage once gained reduced a country to such a state that it
would be difficult indeed to regain its former position. When a
country had gotten such an elevation, it was not a difference of 10
or 12 percent. which could throw her off front the vantage ground.
France and Switzerland have the same advantage in silk as this
country possesses in cotton and wool, and it moth' be most impolitic
I to confer any additionaliscilities. The lit. Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
If uskiemn) had avoided to touch on the main point of the subject.
, This was the consideration of the mode and value of subsistence ;
, but if Government are determined to proceed with the principle of
the new system, and refuse to make any allowance on that point,
they willsoon dist:over that the people must be victims to starvation.
It was strange that the Right lion. Gentleman should not have
adverted to a topic so interesting. If he should proceed with the
measure, however, it will be incumbent on him to inquire into the
disadvantages tender which the manufacturers of this country must
labour, and to appoint a committee to examine whether the enact.
meats on this subject should be allowed to proceed. The measure
for the House is to act for the country at large, and to prevent the
ruin of those thousands who know nothing of political economy, or
of those new-fangled theories, from being sacrificed to the expert.
menus of these fanciful speculations and schemes of modern device.
The workman whe does not profess to know any thing of thmie mat.
tees should not be subjected to the danger of being thrown out of
employment and of his honest means of livelihood in vindication of
these presumptive principles. Besides, if a mistake should occur
in this instance, the silk manufacturer has not the means of going
for refuge to the cotton trade, as he had before observed; but it was
the fault of the Right Hon. Gent. that this was not practicable.
Now If the mistake should occur, and the Right lion. Gent. must
admit that he was. emuetimes Ii .ble error, the mistake was abso-
lutely irremediable. He agreed in die explication of the word
"mvernading" which haul been given. He was of opinion that sue.
cess was the criterion to determine whether overtrading existed or
not. But there was nu proof adduced of overtrading; and why ?
Because there was no great stock of goods on hand. And again,
why WAS this the case? Because manufacturers were afraid to run
the risk which attached to the new system; they had mote inkling of
disappointment, and were not sufficiently hardy to venture into the
danger. They had accordingly, in many instance', dischergrd their
workmen until the result of the experiment should be discovered.
They preferred experience taught to experience bought ; but the
silk workmen had not the option. If things were allowed to run
on in the old course, he did not entertain a doubt that all the hands
which were now idle would soon find employment. It had been
been said that there was too much overtrading; but on examination
of the last thirty years it would be Itiund that the great increase was
only three and a half instead of two and a half per cent. The
lion, Member then proceeded to explain the Instance which had
been cited on the former night by the Right Hon. Gentleman (51r.
liuskiss Pi) in respect to the great demand for workmen in the silk
trade, which was inferred from an advertisement in a 31acch4eld
newspaper, The Hon. Gentleman ascribed the suddeu demand on
that occaaion not to an increase of trade, but to an intention of
breaking down a temporary combination. The Honourable
Member then ssfd that he whiled to advert to some sentarks
which had been niatle on the conduct evinced by some irnlivi.
duals against Frenchmen. These gentlemen, for whose respectability
he could vouch, complained that they had not been coufrunted
with their accusers. rinse manufacturers stated that they had
been told by a person in their employment that there was a
French house in the City which bail iumuggled goods. The in•

THE BRITISH PRESS.

former was taken to the Board of Customs, and the Commissioners
stated that the foreigner in question was a privileged person, and
not to be disturbed according to the directions of Government.
On inquiry it appeared that this foreigner had the privilege of
bringing over thrown and dyed silk. For this exemption he saw
no reason. It was natural for the English manufacturers to become
jealous of a foreignee with such privileges in extensive business at
theapside. Information was then given that there were sonic arti-
cles of French manufacture in the house. These were seized tinder
the suspicion of being smuggled, which opinion very naturally was
formed when it was known that the owner possessed the facilities
which had been mentioned. It was proved by the evidence of
men who were not known in Spitalfieltia, that of the 37 piece, seised
' nineteen had been manufactured at Spitallields, and the remaining
eighteen were fabricated at Manchester. But great doubt existed
at the present day on the point, and he (Mr. B.) ooncurred in the
disbelief of their having been made In this country. Now the
grounds on which the respectable manufacturers to whom he alluded
rested veto-much confirmed by what he had heard from a gentleman
recently arrived from the continent. This gentleman met the
foreign manufacturer from whom the goods had been seised in
Cheapside, and who no* keeps manufactories at Paris and Lyons.
That gentleman could prove that the manufacturer had told
him, that he possessed facilities for smuggling goods into England
at the present period. The Right Hon. Gentleman had stated that
it would be dangerous to make a retrograde step In the free-trade
system, because it would create a distrust In foreign nations of the
ability of England to proceed, and world prevent their co-opera.
don. That may be a fair principle, but would It not be worse to
make a false titan a retrograde step ? Would not the evidence of
insecurity be then stronger, and more decidedly prevent the eon.
curreuce of foreign powers. Therefore there was the greater occa-
sion for the appointment of a Committee of Inquiry. If there be
a charge there ihould be some cont;deration for those who wets
likely to sutler, whether the principle were right or wrong. The
whole matter hinges on the corn question. It was proper that the
country should know what was to be its price. The Right /ion.
Gentleman was as well aware as himself of the necessity of deter.
mining that question, but he cannot touch it, and because he could
not settle that matter he had proceeded with this. It was. how.
ever, wrong to propose to do something, and vet in effect nothing.
IVhat was intended on the subject should be known quickly, and
yet' the Right Hon. Gent. and his Colleagues saw that the Coen
Laws are not in a settled state. Thus the country is kept in a state
of the most embarrassing suspence. The Hon. Gentleman then
read an extract from a letter addressed to the Right Hon. the Se.
cretary tor Foreign Affitirs (Mr. Canning), but to so subdued a
tone that we could not collect the purport.
Mr. HUriIi.ISS()N then rose, and stated that his object was
merely to advert to what had fallen from the Honourable Member
who had just sat down, on the case of the French manufacturers.
lie thought it necessary to mention, in contradiction of the person
on whose authority the Honourable Member rested, that he had
never held communication of any kind with the French manufac-
turer in question, in regard to the investigation concerning the
articles which were seized under the allegation that they had been
smuggled front France. In that transation he had acted on the
public document signed by the tour Commissioners of the Board of
Customs, as his Right Honourable Friends near him were aware.
He fearlessly placed their testimony against the charges preferred
by persons who were evidently influenced by feelings of disap-
pointed malignity.
Mr. DAVENPORT,made a few observations, but in so low a
tone that we could not catch their purport. We understood the
lion. Gentleman to be in favour of the motion founded on the pe-
tition. Ministers, by pursuing the course they were now called on
to 'dor, in ight throw themselves open to the charge of inconsistency, ,
but this should not influence them in a matter of so grave a n inure.
From being where he was surrounded by the sufferers—front being,
lie might say, their neighbour, he had possessed frequent opportu-
nities of being a painful witness of their distresses. The only
classes benefited by the law as ft now stood were the foreigner and
the smuggler. He could inform those Gentlemen who appeared so
attached to certain theories that experience might teach them what
might grow in a book would not grow in the ground.
Mr. C. (.RANT said he rose to state a few of Ws reasons for
objecting to the opinions which had been expressed by the Hon.
Gentleman on the other side. There was much, however, that he
had said in reference to political economy with a hieh he quite co-
incided, that was to say, so far as general principles were concerned;
but his objections applied to the arguments deduced from these
general principles. In the course of the observations he might
have to offer, he wished it not to be supposed that he intended to
slight or treat with any disrespect the prayer of the petition which
had been presented to the House ; those who had signed that pe-
tition had conducted themselves throughout in the most respectable
and orderly manner. Looking at the interest which the master
manufacturers had in this question, and feeling the consideration to
which they were entitled, he should trett the subject with mode-
ration. They in their tum should reflect that if the House even did
that which they might deem wrong, it did so with the best possible
' intention—with a full persuasion that it was effecting that which
would be productive of ultimate and lasting benefit. Ile had listened
with considerable attention to the speech of the lion. Gentleman
opposite. He appeared to complain of the range which had been
taken by bis Hon. Friend who spoke last night, but surely that
range had been fully justified by the peculiar nature of the speech
which bad preceded it. He congratulated the country on the op.
portunity which his Hon. Friend had been afforded of laying before
it those statements. They were of the most important nature, and
the arguments which accompanied them were triumphantly con-
clusive. The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Baring)had said there was no
charge of insensibility meant to be made against his Majesty's
Ministers ; surely when he made this assertion he must have for-
gotten the speech delivered by the lion. and Learned Gentleman
(Mr. Williams) last evening. He (Mr. Grant) did not wish to
impute to those gentlemen that they entertained any bad feeling or
aentimedt, but they had east such an imputation on his lion.
Friend ; they had touched him nearly, and had called forth in re-
ply one of the most eloquent speeches, one of the most over-
powering answers that House perhaps had ever heard. The
Honourable Gentleman had-complained of the wanderings of
his Honourable Friend ; now it appeared to him that the
lion. Gentleman had been guilty of the very Caine offence, and
without the same excuse which his lion. Friend possetsed, lie
had introduced the' opinions of Mr. M'Culloch. Mr. Medlin'.
and one or two other political economists, whose arguments did
not at all apply, whose reasonings had not the most distant con.
nexion with the present subject. Ile regretted that the Honourable
Gentleman should have come forward on the present occasion, and
have lent the weight of his talents and his high authority to men
whoiwere far inferior to himself, and who were glad to avail them.
selves of the power which he was so able to afford them. The
Hon. Gentleman had made another charge against his Honourable'
Friend. it was said that in his speech of last night he had treated
very largely on general matters, but had with great caution
avoided the point at issue. Now this was the very complaint be
had to make of the lion. Gentleman; he had discussed the question
itenerally. and had not pointed out what practical remedy there was
for the evils now existing. (Hear, hear.) Ile used many argu.
ments, but altogether omitted to state what was the alternative
The alternative was not between this case and another—it was not
whether there should be competition or 110 competition—this was
not the question: it was rather the fallacy which had characterized
and darkened all the arguments that had been used in relation to
the present subject. Ile believed there was not -an individual in
the House who would venture to assert that the prohibitory system
which had existed '-cured the silk trade from the competition of
1 France. (Hear, hear.) The question then was, whether the cont-
petition should exist under the most favourable or the most unfa.
vourahle circumstance (hear, hear) ; whether Its existence
should hold out encouragement to every species of crime, and be
so much the more dangerous because of its unseen operation, with
no chance of benefit accruing to any but the Consumer and the
smuggler? or whether it should be free—so thrown open to all par.
ties, that all might, if they chose, derive benefit from it. This,
he had said was the question, and be would appeal to the Hon.
Gentleman opposite for an answer. If he had made such a reply
as he would have made in 1820, the answer would be—let the pro.
' hibithon be expunged. The Hon. Gentleman said that he agreed
to a certain extent with the theoretical principles which had been
advanced; but he was desirous of adjusting them, and snaking
theni subservient to practical measures. Now, this question pre-
sewed three views:—first, the measure* of Government--secondly,
I how far these measures had produced the stagnation complained
of—and, tinnily, to what extent the stagnation existed. +With
respect to the first, of all measures taken by any Government this
surely was least open to the charge of not being practical. Here
was as practical grievance to which had been applied a practical
remedy. His Honourable Friend said last night this mea-
sure had caused much discussion in the Committee of the House
of Lords. It was there given in evidence that one evil was the
duty on the raw materialsand the thrown silk; another, the Spital-
fields Act; and the third, the prohibition: these constituted
the complaints that were trade. The duty on the raw silk
was 30 and 33 per cent., and on the two silks, the raw and the
thrown, amounted to 741 or La per cent. The drawback, too, was
insutficient. This was remedied. The second practical grievance
was the Spitalfields Act, and the practical remedy was its removal.
Next and last came the prohibition ; what had been the fate of this
was fully told by the introduction of the present discussion. lie
would ask, then, had his Majesty's Ministers followed theory
only ? The duties on the two silks had been reduced ; the Spits
fields Act had ceased to operate ; and the prohibition was removed
two years ago. Let the House recollect, too, the proposition now
made was not respecting a new measure; it called on them to
retrace their steps—to repeal an Act which two years Niece had been
passed, anti was now the law of the land. It was said those mew.
sures had produced the present stagnation in the silk trade. lie
denied this; he denied it because he (mind (and h• lamented it)
that the stagnation was common—that it affected every branch of
industry. It not only was not confined to the silk trade, but ex-
tended to those over which the Legislature had exercised no con.
trot. There were the timber trade, and the tallow trade, and others
that might be mentioned, which were in this condition, but which
hod nevertheless escaped the sweeping reform of his Hon. Friend.
It was not natural, nor reasonable, nor just, if you could not
assign a particular cause; it' there was a similar effect observable,
both in the commercial and the manufacturing world, to attribute'
the thanes% which might be experienced by the silk trade, in corn-
mon with others, to any bad system originating with the Govern-1
went. lie denied that those measures had contributed to the suffer-
togs alluded to; and he thought the House would agree with him,
when they further considered that there was scarcely a branch of
manufacturt: so much exposed as the silk trade to transitions.
this
theetar,hear.) It would be more reasonable, perhaps, to suppose
prohibitory laws might have had something to do with the
periodical misfortunes that had visited this trade. (Hear, hear.)
The House must be well aware that seldom more than three years
passed without Its receiving representations of a conrithe able keg.
nation being in existence, lie dwelt on this point with some
anxiety, because, both in the House and out of doors, he had heard

it said the distresses were produced by his Majesty's Ministers.
(Hear, hem.) Since he had had the honour of a seat in the House
he recollected there was a similar representation of distress said to
be then existing is Coventry. He remembered that, particularly
in 1819, the Member for Coventry was so pressed by his consti-
tuents, that lie proroged to bring in a 11111 to regulate the wages.
sTrews, othfeOn'orcoerunlmd
suffering of the weavers in Spitalfields was no new circumstance.
enthte.ynanoiwr
tahtetryibhuadte
btheeenirtdhiestonresi7sescsotoft;l7 nTieha-e
He found an account in 51`Piterson's Annals of Commerce, which
spoke of the distresses of 1793. There had been before that period
four ttiounand five hundred looms at work, hut the number was
materially lessened by the telling oil of the trade. In 1796 there
was a letter received by the Count.' East India Directors, in which
it was stated that, in consequence of sonic suffering. they wished a
new arrangement to be made in reference to the thrown silk. lu
the year 1801 the distress was extreme. and grew to such a pitch
that Government, anxious to relieve it, gave a considerable
sum of money. In the year 11116 a meeting was held at the
Mansion House. On that occasion they seedbed their dig.
tresses to the vast quantity of goods introduced into the country
by smugglers. This, be it recollected, was under a state of
protection, was while the prohibitory laws were in full force, and
then out of 16,000, 10,000 were unemployed. (Hear, hear.) On
that occasion a respectable manufacturer, who was also an overseer
of the poor, was examined. Ile said he had kept 150 men at work,
and at that period was only
employing three. He attributed the
want of demand, first to the duty on the raw Material. and secondly
wTahsennot
there neara u so ex-
tensive
hist
to the smuggling. As regarded the amount of distress he had
madesoss" co
ni n Poi; iry, alt:Cicahsto
he must
itust
sayhad
peculiarity in reference to Spindrields—the population there was not
entirely composed of weavers; it was the receptacle, the gathering place
that
been. it
for the very poorest part of the population of London. Then there
was a certain class of men who were not regular weavers, and who
were only taken on when there was flush work ; these were on such
swell the list of sufferers. Ile did not mean by these observations
occasions as the present thrown out of employ, and contributed to
to deny there was distress existing, or to underrate the actual
amount : he was aware that the average number of looms ern.
',toyed in each family was three, and that out of this number there
might be found unfortunately one or two now idle. lie had said
the suffering was not so great now an in 1111 n ; but there was
one thing calculated to make • difference between that time
and the present. The distress then experienced followed a
eery pinching and trying time : here it came suddenly, and after
their trade had been more than ordinarily flourishing. He
I had said he did not deny the existence of digress, far
from it; be was desitous only that it should not be ascribed
to the measures of his Majesty's Ministers. In his opinion they
I would find the real cause to be the same as that which had affected
Ithe whole of the county. (Hear, hear.) To a great extent it was
attributable to ovee-trading. The lion. Gentleman who hod just
sat down astonished him when he said there had been no overtrading
in the silk trade. This had been also asserted, be believed, in
other quarters. Ile thought this might be easily and satisfactorily
I answered in the ordinary way. Ile would therefore state to the
House what had been the importation of the raw material. The
importation of raw silk in the year 1824 was 2.512,1641b5. In
the year Ins it had increased to 3,135.6441b5. (Hear, hear.) The
importation of the thrown silk in the year 1824 was 312.0001b5.
I which increased in the year 1813 to 1109,11001 be. (Hear, hear.) He
recollected during the last year there was an Act whichl allowed of
Iraw silk being imported from arty part, and there was soon then in
the country a greater quantity than it could work up for many
months. He was told there was a great quantity in the hands of
speculators at Genoa. At these periods the raw material rose con.
siderably in price. The thrown silk mounted from 335. to 53r.,
and the China silk was not behind. Surely this was sufficient
proof of a great demand, and was it matter of surprise that
the overtrsding which resulted should have produced the
present lamentable sufferings ? Lord Lansilown had been ad-
dressed by a weaver -who gave many reasons for the present
distresses. In the town of Alacciesfield the operatives had
contributed, by their savings, to the building of extensive estab.
ishments. Cottages sprang up in every part, and were entered
even before the plaster wan dry ; and 6090 additional hands were
advertised for. Now really this appeared to him sufficient to ac-
count for all that had since followed. But was this the only cause?
It might be deemed unpleasant that he should refer to any parti.
cular class, but he must state what he considered an aggravation.
The lion. Gent. opposite had endeavoured to explain the extract'.
dinar), demand for 5000 persons, by stating that it was to defeat the
combination of the workmen ; but was it an expedient measure to
draw men women, and children in this way from all parts ? The
alarm which had aggravated the present distresses first took its rise
from the master manufacturers. They were the first to declare
themselves incompetent to compete with the foreign mat.ufacturer
and was it to be wondered at that the mercer and the retailer should
be affected by these assertions? The former had courted the very
distress and famine they had so much cause to fear: they might
be said to hate cruck work in October last. Under these circum-
stances they had little claim upon his Majesty's Ministers.
During the whole course of these discussions he had never heard
the consumer referred to. ( !tear. hear.) Their interests had
been quite overlooked. (Hear, hear.) Surely the great mass of
the people had a right to interpose some claim. II ben his Hoe
nourable friend gave the drawback on the silk, the Honourable
Gentleman opposite presented a petition from some in this town
who did not accede to it ; but the Honourable Member for Co.
ventry (Mr. Ellce) then came forward in a manly way, and said
his constituents were no party to the petition, and were not
merely satisfied with the measures of Government, but were de.
sirous of trying the experiment. How, he would ask, had the
experiment been tried ? They were as remote from being able to
judge of the effects of the new measures as they were two years
ago. (Hear, hear.) He thought it not just of the toaster ma.
nufecturers, when these measures had been introduced at their
own desire, for them to turn their backs on the operative' instead
of trying the experiment fairly, which lie earnestly advised them
to do. If they hail taken their goods to market, and had failed,
they might have applied to Government on mush stronger
grounds. The Honourable Member for Coventry admitted
there weredistricts who had proposed a strange remedy. Suppose the
House agreed to a committee, this course was nut calculated
to alleviate the temporary sufferings. Such a proceeding
would occupy at least the Session, for it must involve all the detail
of long examinations as to facts, and could nor therefore afford
such relief as was desired. There was no doubt but that with a pro.
tecting duty of 30 per cent. they could compete with the foreigner.
The manufacturers themselves, in their exainination before the
Committee, had said they could compete with the foreign market
with a duty of 15 per cent only. If a committee was now wanted
to examine these persons, his reply was, they had been examined,
and under more favourable circumstances, at a time when they
were not labouring under the prejudices which would be likely now
to characterise them. It was said new light had fallen on the measures.
that persons had been sent allover Europe to gather in formation. This
however, he wan told had not taken place until after the panic began.
lie should, ,before he proceeded farther, make one or two observa.
tions upon the whole of the calculations. The lion. Gentleman,
the member for Taunton (Mr. Baring) had brought his calcula-
tions of the difference between the prices of manufacturing silks in
this taunts, and on the Continent to no less an amount than from
forty-five to sixty per ceat., making a difference upon the whole of
from fifteen to twenty per cent. above the protecting duty. It was
impossible to admit or to argue upon the mlnutice of these calcu.
lations, because they were founded upon a false assumption. It was
assumed that, with the exception of the law which must soon come
into operation, everything else respecting the silk trade must re.
main precisely as it is; for instance, it was stated in the paper which
he held inhie hand, that in comparing the expenses attendant upon
the throwing of silk in this country and France, it appeared that
in each pound of silk there was one ounce and s half wasted in
England more than in France, and this estimated loss was brought
into the calculations; thus again assuming that machinery must
remain as it is, with regard to the manufacture of silk, while it ra.
pidly improved in every other branch of business throughout the
kingdom. (Hear, hear, hear.) It was assumed also that labour-
er*. wages must remain at the lowest rate in France, while there was
for it a most immoderate demand, thus controverting every eats.
blished principle of trade, and presuming a maximum of demand to.
gether with a ntieinterni of wages. (Hear, hear.) In fact. through.
out the whole of the calculations there had been made the grossest
errors and such hating inaccuracies as niaterially to affect their
general result. With respect to the dying of silk, the advantage
was stated to be as much as fifty per cent. in favour of France;
but by the calculations made in that country, theativantage in their
favour in warping and dying did not succeed 7 per cent. Even
this advantage was to be attributed to the duties upon the articles
used in dying, which duties were in the course of being reduced.
In a late number of the Edinburgh Review there had been an enu-
meration of the articles used in dying which paid a heavy duty, but
the fact was that more than the half of those duties had already been
reduced. Cochineal, the duty upon which had been 21. fid., was
now reduced to a duty of Is. fid. Madder and other articles had
undergone similar reductions, and as the same principle was to be
applied to all drugs used for the purposes of dying, it was unfair
to KISUMUe there would be any material advantage in favour of
France when those reductions had taken place. Many of those
drugs, it should be observed, bore • higher price in France titan in
thin country ; but at all events it was the intention of his Majes.
Ooverduient„to inquire into every branch of the subject, so as
to remove every obstacle to a fair competition. (Hear, hear.)
With respect to soap, he acknowledged that the duty upon dot ar.
tide was severe, but he felt in somne measure authorised to state
that It was the intention of his Majesty's Ministers to do every
thing in their power to encourage the trade ; and that therefore a
niettmre of some sort would be adopted to relieve it from the pre".
sure 'Arch theduty upon soap must occasion, tidier by allowing
them a drawback or otherwise. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. ELLIS.—And
Mr. GIANT, in continuation, said that Willa was also in
the course of reduction, as regarded the duty upon it. It had been
stated that the price of raw loll( was lower in Franco than in Eng. I
land ; but then there was in France a duty of 6d. per pound upon
It, which was exactly double that which was impend upon it in
this country. There was no danger whatever that this ommtry
could not fatal the Continent in the excellence of their milks, while
they had such a country to resort to as the East Indies, the hatural
climate of the silk worm, and where it might be beo•ght to its
utmost degree of perfection. ' The Committee of 1821 had pro.
nonacid the Bilk imported from Bengal to be equal to the finest of
Italian production, so that upon that head them was little to be
traaiptewpritilcmtenerwdosialedn'aontdistotheht had
dtmt aobtintasuctiFiretithdattsibtalhkisysoattlittiloi:sot Etireoatulronesilaipyrsa:lebeeso,t but
is:planation was extremely clear. The Bengal silk was of two
kinds—that which was called country-wound silk, from which the
Bandana handkerchiefs were manufactured, and soother called fila-
ture silk. The distinction between them was, that the former was
worth only per pound, while the latter was ridged at 1 it. ; so

that the latter often sold at the same price in the raw state a, th„,
other when manufactured. Persons expert an trade unnerst„,4
these distinctions very well, and why they should be mite,: a 2,„.
tery of upon such an occasion as the present he ennftssed was a
him inexplicable. He Would next advert to the subject of French
manufacture, and of the charge which had been ntade of connira,,,
xt its importation. Neither himself nor his Right Hon. priend f 31r.
II.) knew anything of that charge till it was communicated to th,o,
by the Master of the Mint. His Right Honourable Friend, justly
incensed at such a charge, ordered an immediate examination upa's
oath into the circumstances, and after an examination conducted is
the manner expressly pointed out in welting by thosewho mad,
the charge, the result was such as was contained in the document
upon the table. (Hear, hear. i The Honourable Gentleman (my.
Baring) had stated that lie ould bring gentlemen to the biz of
that House who could swear that Mons.- de Pouillet had said tba;
he had carried on smuggling transaction..
Mt. HARING explained. What he had stated was, that that
Gentleman had said that lie had the puwerof smugglingsilks to any
extent.

Mr. GRANT, in continuation, said that he though' it hard to
take away the character of any man, and more particularly that of
a foreigner. by introducing his name in such a manner tefore the
House of Commons. lie had no acquaintance whatever with the
gentleman he alluded to, and he only spoke of him at all in mere
justice to his character. He would nest allude to the prices of
' thrown silk in England and in France. The price in Engine
was stated at 7s. lid, but he believed it could be thrown for toe.
siderably less. The Member for Coventry complained of the
duties upon every department of the trade ; but if it was not foe
the system of monopoly which had always been pursued by this
' country, and its attendant consequences, It might at cam with a
reduced duty, enter into competition with France or any other
country. It had been said that silk could nut he thrown in Uus
country for less than 7s. Gd. ; but he bad been informed by an
eminent manufacturer that !remittal throw it tor fht. Tt e duty was
14s. 7d. but the Lords' Committee had repurstai that a third of that
duty would be sufficient to enable this country to compete with
the continental nations. That report stated that a duty of 4s. 6d.
per pound would be a sufficient countervailing duty against the
introduction of French manufactt Upon a former occasion, whets
the question of a protecting duty was under consideration, the silk
manufacturers 'lceland that it could not be thrown under Ils.
subsequently, however, they acknowledged that it could be done
for Ps. Upon the present occasion they came down aglow as 6s,
but for his own part he believed, taking the improvements of mt.
chinery into consideration, it could be thrown for less than as. In
France ft wan stated that silk could be throws at 3e. ad. but it cep,
peered tiom the evidence of an eminent Engljsit throwster who had
travelled through the continent. and who had written from Lyons
upon the subject of the silk trade, that In ,France they cannot
throw silk for less than 4e. per pound. This dearly proved tort s
protecting duty leas in amount than that which had been proposed
would be quite sufficient to give the advantage in the market to the
English manufacturer. The Hon. Gent. then described the flawed
the process of throweting silk, which operation takes place between im
raw state and that of being converted into web. It was true, he said,
that if silk were to be received into this country ready thrown, it
could be manufactured for much less, but they had two poinu to
take into consideration. They had raised a throwsting machinery et
the kingdom, and the difficulty by which • they were embarrassed
was to protect the throwster, who must otherwise be destroyed by
the very measure that would give additional encouragement to the
weaver. How did it happen that the sate expenditure was not
saved in silk as in cotton by the application of machinery ? It
was because there was a prohibition to the exercise of intellect is
the improvement of that branch of our manufactures. Whet
answer could be given to the question as to the reason why the silk
trade should not reap the sante advantages as the other trades had
done from the introduciion and improvement of machinery. Re
was willing to admit that it might not be so susceptible of profiting,
by mechanical in ingenuity as some others of our manufactures;
but ever since the prospect of opening the trade in silk had bees
promulgated, attempts had been made to apply mechanical powers
to the earlier parts of the process. This had been done in Man.
chester and elsewhere, and he telt confident, that if the country
would avail itself of its scientific powers. and direct them to the
subject. France could not have the superiority in the struggle foe
competition. (Hear, hear.) In this country a loom wo-ked by
one woman would produce nine yards of grosole-napies silk per
day, for the labour upon which she was paid three pence per yard,
which, with another item, amounted to three.pence farthing, while
in France the same work teceived 7d. pay, mme than double
that received in England. It was also said that the looms in fo-
reign countries were superior to than at Coventry, and this assn.
tion lie believed to be true; but the fact was, that as it at present
stood with rtspect to the silk trade, it chained down the intellect
of the country still that was an evil which might in such a
country as this be easily remedied. Another argument that bad
been used was, that the shape of the houses in Coventry was such
that they wound not admit of such machinery as is used in France.
and that. thetefore, the houses in that city should be rebuilt before
they could enter into competition with the nations of the continent.
Surely, such a reason could not be considered tenable even fa a
moment in opposition to a great legislative measure like that before
the House. (Hear, hear.) One Gentleman had stated that the
silk manufacturer of Basle or Zurich had every advantage over
those of Coventry, for he traversed his mountains to buy his silk et
the first hand with his gold, and his expenditure was so trivial as
to render it certain that he must be a successful competitor stilt
any opponent whatever. Was this, be would ask, a reason for con.
tinning the prohibition ? Was it not tantamount to an assertion
that we could not enter into competition with the continent unless
we first became miserably poor. (Hear, hear.) if comparative
advantages were thus to be estimated, the poorer country must
always possess the advantage over that which was possessed of
capital; but if such an argument was tenable, why were we not
ruined by the competition of the peasantry of Ireland, than wtose
situation and mode of living no condition could be more miserable?
( Hear.) The object of the hon. gent. opposite ( M r. Baring) seemed to
be to gain time—to put off the operation of the measure of last
season to a more distant period ; hut, in the first place, he would
i ask what was the inducement to do so? Hail they not the result
of two years to show clearly to them what would be the end of
procrastinating the time from which the measure was to come into
cperation ? During the last Session the same arguments had been
' made use of as had been used upon that occasion, and would doubt-
less be always resorted to to avert that which was considered the evil
day. (II ear.) The Hon. Member for Coventry (31r. Ellice) bed said
I yesterday that the prospect of opening the silk trade had created a
general panic, which had been productive of disastrous curie.
, quencea. Ile would ask him if, supposing a prolongation of the
time were agreed to, whether, as the period approached when
silk was to be imported, the same panic would not again produce
precisely the same effects ? (Hear, hear.) In conclusion, he called
upon the House to adhere to the resolution which they had last year
adopted. (Cheers.) He conjured them to come upon that meseion
' to a vote which would close for ever the discussion. (Great cheers.)
The true course of mercy was to settle definitively the mean. which
they deemed it best to pursue (cheers); and taking their stand
upon that ground, he trusted that, ere long, experience would prove
that they had acted fur the benefit of those very persons who were
most apprehensive of injury from the measure. (The Right lion.
Gentleman then sat down amidst great cheering.)
Mr. DICKINSON said that the manufacturers had been blamed
for the speculations they had entered into, but they had been led
into those speculations by the Right Honourable Gentleman (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer), who had talked so largely of the
prosperity of the country. With respect to entering into competi-
tion with France, he thought it quite hopeless, for the chief excel.
knee of the French silk consisted in the dying. The colour of
French silk was superior to that of English dyed silk, and this it
was supposed was owing to sonic peculiarity of the waters of tee
Rhone, or else of the atmosphere : but whatever it was owing to,
it must preclude the possibility of competition. It was by pro-
hibitory. duties that this country rose to the height of prosperity to
which it had attained, anti by such only could its praisperili be
maintained.

Mr. WARRE said that he came down to the House on the prr-
ceding evening anxious for information upon the subject latch
was to be discussed, and he could truly say, if he knew his eon
feelings, that his mind was totally unprejudiced•owe way or die
other. ( Hear, hear.) After hearing the argenterits which hail
been urged on both sides of the Howie, he declared that he did rot
think that the Hon. Menthe( for Coventry (Mr. Ellice) had shown
sufficient gaounds for his proposition. (Hear, hear, hear.) lie
thought the Hon. Member for Cheshire was mistaken. in asserting
that competition must prove ruinous to the country. If the lion.
Member were to consult any of the Lords of the Admiralty, or
any of the officers commanding our coast blockade, he would soon
learn that it gave them as much as they could do to keep 'putts out
of the country, and that they were forced to let the dry goods slip
by. (Hear, hear.) This was so well known that he would not say
a word more upon the subject. He recollected that some years ago
when Lord Newhaven proposed to admit the importation of cotton
from Ireland, Sir 'l'. Egerton said, that if once the importation of
manufactured cotton was permitted from Ireland. there would he
an end to the manufacture of that article in England. laird NOttil
had supported that opinion, but it had been successfully CORY'
batted by Mr. Burke, and the result proved that the alarm was
entirely groundless. The fact was, that in all ages every kind of
improvement had been at first opposed—in every history they
would find that every improvement raised vehement opposition on
the part of those whose interests were thereby brought iota jeopardy.
The Hon. Gentleman sat down loudly cheered.
Mr. PETER MOORE said that he had no calculations what"
ever, nor did he mean to offer any calculation, but to go on the
broad ground of experience and opinion. His lion. colleague who
brought forward this motion had said that he hail no prooni of his
calculations, but that a committee was necessary to obtain it:
this
was the ground on which his Hon. colleague went, and he came
forward on the 'mine ground; but although lie had no cskulations
to ofrer to the House, he had a high opinion of their value, and
wished to hear them authenticated or disproved ; but this was
point to which the Right Hon. Gentleman, in ills @Patch last 1.4,"
of two houreend ten minutes, had never alluded. (Laughter.) he
often wished to interrupt the Hight Hon. ttlentleman during the
course of his long speech, to call his attention to this point.
(Laughter.) Such a proceeding might not, perhaps, have been tit'
I derly, but yet he could whit difficulty retrain from it. But he
begged to know what remedy the Right Hon. Gentleman had Pt
contemplation for the existing distresses of the silk trade. Ile
had often been the advocate of this trade, during his long MTV'"
,
in that house of 24 veers, and all he now asked me, that
House would legalise the arrangements of the manufacturers tht tn-
selves. All who bad signed that petition—manufacturers from
Alacclestield. Coventry, Congleton Reading, and other towns all
agreed In their representations of the prevailing distress ; and the
Right lion. Gentleman himself agreed with theta. lie did n.it
wish, nor intend, to any what was right or what was wrong, but
merely to find a remedy, and to satisfy the people. The Right
lion. l.icntlenton had read a petition, which be emphatically

'geed by Mr. Thornton. He (Mr. Moore) knew Samuel
Thornton well. (Laughter.) He did notmeantotaistanyinipu-
ytion at Mr. Thornton. but he meant to say the, the petition in
in Inn but was good for nothing now • we had
geliseititijnlZasimdg% ew stet; of things, which required new 'remedies
sew counsels. The city which he hed the honour to represent waa
eenported by the silk trade, tied felt sensibly all the miseries re-
. g rom its decline. The inhabitants of ovent wished to be
swung
from the increasing poor-rates. A scheme of relief hail
beta toruterly brought forward by him, but the House could not
grant it ; the object of which was, to bind together by an and's-
eoluble tie the employer and the employed. It was important to
the avian: at large that the people should be employed ; they
oetenathlusstcured from insurrections and disorderly meetings; the
Manchester riots avoid never have occurred if the people had
found emnloyment. The tranquillization of the people was the first
thing Government ought to look to, for the people woe the bans
of the Gcr.promest. Ile was :awry that . ini
etersdid not promptly
refuse the au", of his lion. Friend, and preclude the necessity of
it. either by stopentling the measure of 11;21 or by repealing It
i ,ottehet Thee talked notch of navigation, extended commerce,
tied free trade. Rut of these he would say—perish them all, but
...note (Laughter.) It wet no longer advantageous
their capital ; but if they with.
"enthesetlkthm-an'...iii an.tiren to employ
isfrew their cal. what would become of the aell,ooo who de-
pended ria it toe entpinintolt The city of Coventry, would be left
nothing but a starving anon , yet the people were the support
of the Church and State. 3111 i. for the sake of stile speculation and
the pageantr of foreign silk, we inflicted misery on so many
thousands. lie was sum Government would have the honour
to go Into a °gamines to consult for the happiness of the people.
lie had no wish to withdraw his support from his Majesty's (to.
moment ; but with regard to the benefits which they expected to
derive then this measure. he would say, " perish all such paltry
considerations; and as for smuggler., hang them an tilt a., you can
get hold of them." ((treat laughter.) Ile hoped and trusted,
therefore. that the Right Honourable (leatleman would yield to the
petition of his honourable friend, which was virtuous, honourable,
and full of integrity.
Mr. KGERTON ohserved, that the silk trade bedtime toe eon.
siderabk height under the system of exclusion, and there was great
danger, therefore, to be apprehended from this measure. It would
inevitably throw great number/lout of employ, and plunge them
is the deepest distress. Ile therefore requested that Ministers
would sure thou to go into a cotnrilittee. when the manufacturers
might have an opportunity of supporting their statements, and
making a case. If they could not do so satisfactorily, he would no
looter advocate their intercom; nor support their claims.
Mr. PALMER declared the earnest anxiety with which he at.
wiled to the discussion* of this question. both because some of his
coristitunts were engaged in the silk trade, and because at a public
meeting °lmams connected with the trade which took plate a
short tiara ago, ,te promised the II no. Member forf:oventry to support
his treasure if he did not hear something to the contrary. But last
eight he had listened to the arguments against the committee. He
had heard the speech of the Right Honourable Gentleman, and the
rely objection he could raise to that speech was, that it tilled him
with self.reproach, since his memory was not sufficiently capacious
to retain every word of it. If the appointment of a committee
were meant as a remedy for the present distress, he for one would
vote for it ; but if the only effect of it were to be the holding out of
lingering and delusive hopes (and this he believed to be the case),
he certainly could not yield it his concurrence.
lit. Secretary CANNI-NO rose and addressed the House to the
following effect:—" Sir, in answer to the appeal which has been
made to me by the lion. Member for Coventry (Mr. Ellice). I do
think it my duty, before this debate comes to a close, to state
fittly, but as shortly as the occasion requires, the opinion which
I entertain on this question. On the one hand, lam assured
the House will feel that I cannot be disposed to enter largely into
a palsied which has been already disposed of by my Right Hon.
Friend (Mr. Huskisson), so much to the satisfaction of the House
and of the country; to the encouragement of those who were before
prepared to take the same view of the matter, and to the convic-
tion of others who came into this House either adverse to, or
undecided upon, the policy of my Right Hon. Friend. I say. Sir,
on the one hood, that after that speech I cannot have the bad taste
to obtrude myself unnecessarily on the House by again launching
into this vast subject. But, on the other hand, I feel I should
not do my duty to the House, to the country, or to my Right
lion. Friend, if, leaving to him the weight of the debate, I did
not claim fur myself a share of the responsibility : it is for that
pupae, Sir, I rise to address you. Having witnessed for the
last six months, I may say even for a longer period, but parti-
cularly for the last six months, a diligent and systematic attack
spoil the public character of my Right lion. Friend ; and know.
ing that the hopes that were cherished on this subject were that
these attacks might be fatal to his fame, and subversive of the an.
ticipetted establishment of those sound principles he advanced, I am
assured that the issue of it will be not more a triumph to him
than advantageous to the public in the final establishment of a
salami system. I agree, Sir, entirely with the lion. Gentleman
behind me (Mr. Polmer), who haul spoken for the first time in a
mum that evinced the ability with which he would fill his
station hereafter—l agree with him, that if a shadow cf probability
could be shown that by going Into the proposed Committee we
should be able to do anything effectually to soothe the feelings or
relieve the distresses of those on whose behalf the Cont.
Thiuee is required ; if even it were a neutral measure and no ill
consequer.ces would ensue by granting the indulgence, I should
feel the greatest pain in refusing to go into that Committee. But,
Sir, as I am sure that there is no prac.ical good that could result
out of such a measure; that it would only be mischievous to the
country, without being beneficial or consolatory to those who seek
I am satisfied that it would be to practice delusion on the
petitioners at the expense of the interests of the country if we
were to bold out the hope or expectation of our swerving from our
plaque ; or even create a doubt that we were determined to per.
severe in the course which we had deliberately chosen. NVithout
going into detail the question is simply this—would prohibition
Protect the silk trade of this country (hear, hear) more completely
and effectually than it an be protected by a moderate duty ? I
sill not go through the arguments by which the negative of that
proposition is proved. Bat it is an established ground that pro-
!Abider would fail entirely of its object as to its affording protec-
tion to the manufacturer, while it would be introducing again that
meet pernicious principle, and throw into the system that evil
which we hare had so much trouble in expelling ; it would be to
spread the venom of a noxious weed over the whole soil of' the
mattuticturing population. (Cheers.) I must, therefore, mist
the motion of the Honourable Gentleman for a Committee,
which would be melee; to the persons interested, and pre.
indicial in the highest degree to the country. If the object of,
the Honourable Member be obtained it will be prejudicial to all
interests; for by going into a Committee you suspend unneces-
sarily the measures proposed by my Right Hon. Friend, and there.
fore I hope the House will not consent to throw any doubt upon
the subject by a measure which will postpone the attainment of
that object upon which it appears we are almost all cordially agreed.
hut even that Is not the subject upon which I feel myself called
or. by the appeal of the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Ellice) as
sell as by a gem of public duty, to express my sentiments
Sir, it cannot be doubted that this motion, though not by the
Ilanoutz'le Gentlemen who brought it forward, and who did so,
I an rorviaced, with perfect sincerity of heart, and with &view
altogether confined to its particular object ; not by him, Sir, but by
others. this motion was intended to be a covert attack upon those prin.
ciples of commercial policy which have been brought forward by my
Right lion. Friend with more matured deliberation, and with more
concert of opinion than perhaps ever marked the reception of any
measure of public policy ; and which all those the most capable of
fanning a judgment have concurred in advising to be adopted as
the settled policy of the country. The Hon. and Learned Gentle.
man who seconded the motion now before the House (Mr. John
l
('alium) has manifested a new spirit, and, departing from those
aloal professional topics in which he is is the habit of indulging,
h disported himself in matte?* evidently new to him, and with
which he toyed with all the confidence of a novice. For the sake
of making an impression on this House, the lion. and Learned
Gentleman did not disdain to adopt the vulgar topics of ribald in-
/mire and low abuse, by which my Right Hon. Friend ha, been
"shied by publications too contemptible to be noticed ; (Cheers.)
ond hod made allusions to his talents, with an endeavour to hold
hitsup as an object of public odium, because with a toil, an Indus.
P.Y. and an Intellect rarely combined, and never surpassed in the
.
mridee* of his country, he has given his days and nights to the
Perfection of our commercial policy. (Cheers.) But my Right
11°n• Friend knows how to sustain an attack of that kind ; which
tce`ts no other refutation than that given to it by his own speech ;
I.e Reuse knows how to neat an attack so unjust, and if my
It droved
vlettlonf.rourrt theiend wanted any other eulogy, than that'
which is to
consciousness of his own integrity, he would
htd it in the imbecility of the attempt that has been made to lower
him in public opinion. But the lion. nod Learned Gentleman,
Ilbtlellaing the strongest vituperation, was so mild, that even whe
elwaht.—
,of the malignity of the devil he said,
Peram m .•
mean nothing
• Laughter.) He talked of the devil in a strain, as if
he age ar.x.cus Lot to offend the patron saint of the town which
.m. d,m. le it any other than pummel to attribute to him
141;ionr
,ncdy g or malignity ; to personify in him abstract epecu.
wad to ally to abstract speculation all hardness of heart,
114 ev
"Yilling that is odious (Heat.) But these attacks ad im.