The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1807-07-08 00:00:00

Mr. CUiIWEN said, he had trusted that th;s
motion would net have been opposed in that Home.
It bad been argued, that there were no precedents ;
but were t'tey to suppose, that such things were
boatight forward merely to create a triumph of one
parry over another. at a moment when danger was
unprecedented ? Was this a time to create divisions ?
Hr did think that the present was a time that re.
roireci a diffsmat coi.dufl born any other. Hem
was a different case from stay other; and, theterne,
the want of precedent furnished tin argutziea for
opposing such a motion. The Committee of Fi-
nance were already sufficiently n.copied with other
matters ; and, therefore, the more they were re-
!level the better. He regretted that they did not,
every other day. furnish the House With their o',-
servations; and that that Committee had nut been
otherwise formed. He wished to see aftive services
well rewarded, but objefted to those will came into
°tikes for a feveyearsond then retired with petesi:ins,
instead of the emoluments going to reward those
who succeeded them in fulfilling the duties. The
proposed inquiry would do a great deal nt g end, by
removing the opinion. which was generally enter-
t tined, th at every eternise? of Parliament had mo-
tives for becoming so, and do away the report, !!: at
seats were to he like bullocks. lie was at.si: us
that it should be agreed tn, aa it would trail to limit
t .e monstrous power el the Crown, and conciliate,
at the same time, the affeeions of the people.
IVitile he said this, however, he did not go the
levieth of the individual who had sn rashly expressed
himself in wishing to see the Red Book destroyed.
He conceived that that person must not have been
well acquaint--d with the nature of that Book.—
It was one which differed materially from the
Liore-Rouge io France ; for it contained many of-
fices of great utility to the country ; also. he did
not deny that it contained many abuses ; and he
wished to Cod that they were effeftually removed.
Nothing could tend mere to do away the prejadimes
which existed amongst the people, and da away
the injury which the Right Hon. Gentleman, 'op-.
polite (Mr. Perceval) has dose to the country by
coming ix.° power. He was a friend to the Con-
stitution of the country, in its state of purity, as it
existed at the Revolution. He should warmly
sup,:ort every means of inquiry into abuses; and
he could tell the Right Hon. Gentleman, that no-
thing could give him more the confidence of the
people. He trusted and hoped that he (Mr. Per-
c:val) would be 'convinced of this, when in his
present situation, much as h- (Mr. C.) was an'
enemy to the mode in which he go: into it.—
This WA, the only mode by which he could hope
to get out of his perilous situation. or encounter
the difficulties which surrounded him. He warned
him to prepare fur the measure of arming a large
pnrtion of the people in case the contest shout
come to be decides! upon British ground. His
(Mr. PercevaPi) only mode of ctmciliatien Wilt to
adapt such steps as to convince the pa-uple that be
had their interests at heart. He professed himself to
be a rearm party man with those whet tem:wit about
the Revolution. and eueportect those principles
which placed the present King upon the Throne.
Mr. WHITBREAD said, that so far from 'tiny
apprehensive that this measure would excite jea-
loizeies and suspicions, it would tend to xonvince the
people that the corruption which, the, believed to
exist in he:Him-T. was sot se great as they item-
giaed. Many believed, that wheal a valuable
ennsicleration was given for a sea: in Pio-
liament, an expetation of a vallable return was
entertained. This was est? emely natural ; but, in
GOO name, let the House adopt some means to do
it away. Let it be seen whether those persons who
receive pensions front the Crown, Lau:illy deserve
them or not. If it was to be left to the 'Finance
Committee to make this inquiry, he should wish
that there be a recommendation to them to make
an immediate Report upon this particular point.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
disclaimed all disposition to keep back any informa-
tion upob this or any other subjett, but he could
not help objeding to the motion. unless it was to
undergo some limitation. While he said this, he
wished this inquiry to be as full as possible, both
in and out of Parliament. By the manner in which
the motion was worded, every person acing a son
in the army would be to be returned, a piece of
information which might be more easily got by
inspeßing the Army List. The law enabled the
Crown to grant pensions upon the Civil List, to a
certain extent; the clues ion then involved two con-
siderations, the one related to the extent to- which
pensions might be pranted • and the other, whether
any of them ought to be held by Members of Par-
liament ? Upon the whole, he did not believe that
it would be found expedient to limit, to any consi-
derable extent, the number of places. It was a false
mode of gaining popularity, to make the people
believe that they will get relief from public burdens,
which were absolutely necessary, or in encouraging
their ideas as to Members of Parliament having
selfish interests in procuring seats. Unless the
Noble Lord agreed to alter or limit the 11.4111VC of
his maims, be 1/10tild rather recommend it to be
taken up by the Finance Camentuee already up.
pointed. _

Lord OSSIILS TON expres.Pl himself in (ayes tr
of the motion, nor di,: he. consider the Hoo.
tleinan's (Mr. Banker) against it Sit any
weight, namely, that it bad no precedent ; his only
obkaioa was. Coat the motion did not go far
enough. and he '1133 afraid would not be completely
satisfa9ory to the public..
Mr. JOHN SMITH said, e had at first felt
doubtful as to the fate of. the Noole Lord's 'nation,
but was now happy to find that no argument of any
weight had been adduced against it. There was
unquestionably a strong sentiment in the witalic
mind, and particularly amongst the middling
classes, nefavourable to the independence of Mem-
bers of that Was • on this account he wished the
adoption sof the motion, that the public might see
hew ill Ur/ended their suspicions were. He blieved
ii would be injudicious in that House to attetopt
materially to lessen the power of the Crown, and
more particularly at a dine when the country was
threatened with so maay dangers from witboot ;
at such a time it was peculiarly desirous that the
people should not be divided in sentiment. wltrn
such united exertions were respilite itgatast the
common enemy.
Mr. I.KTHBRII)G6 complimented the fairness
with which the Chancsilor of Our Ext.hequer had

me that questinn. Ire was glad that such a
lied b.en broeght for Varst, nertote be kr.,„
pnpulous distrias in hi• y w,,.) is.-ti
mouthed :awn': peosi ins .t-s ; e•is
if adopted, waiild tend J.:s.: them, by
ing, the! they .fid ecleia t.) de,,ri
endanger the ti.ife•s• rt. II: se
suadeil, that the last ;tie, r‘, „,
to withdraw, nrieleatea tit!: .• t:
v•;m (nal.. it \l r.s
and s.
t".n hef -re House. j
Blaring 'h;t: he had ~;
proc..e l rig •• ex., ran- t. •
to , .... •
order hr the Set.- • again 1,4,"
sail, he eensidei I'd it :41 sliest .
the min Is •.1 f:1•• l.f any susoico n
purity of the htonien! Cont.. i• i t..u.
tleman (Mr. J. emith'i t said. that rh.s w
the time to .hies- the-grown or .ii:y ot it. o
but was it n-.t a fir que•tioo t i b-,4
far the beg, ;:t vi (•:e t.r , 5..•.• Ltase
and ought re •ie
Sir JOilN sii.j. he ke.. s• :
ptildic enter! 1111 e.lO
amoogst the Ar 1114,..! •of the H •.1 •• to a t
a
greater degree than the -• kle •t. I I
elated his protestation egaioat ~1 'actin«
HnnoUra.sle Gentleman (Mr. J. as tt.
influence of the Crown.
Mr. W. SAI 1.11 rholght that the adoption ci
this Motion would tend to strengthen the coosti-
tutional power of the Crown. end he agreed that
this was not the time to sv •aken that consti!utional
power. At the satn. time, he did not so well a,s. ,
prove of the mode proposed by the Hight 11,m
able Gentleman ('sir: Yt rcrval), nor did he Hi.'
prove of referting this motion to the Committer it
Fine nee, who had already aanggh upso their banlst
a considerable time must therefore elapse before
any return could be made by them, or els- other
things which they had in hand must be neglected.
He wished a Committee to be appoiated for the es.
press purpose of curving into execir inn the objet:
of this motion. He was not saiigitine enough t.
suppose that any curtailing of visions would cave
any dimination of the public burdens, as they :a •
felt by indivi luaus ; for when fifty millions acre e
were required to be raised, even supposing s'4(.lmi.
a-year could ppcsihly be diminishoi from the pen.
shin list, (and far less than that sum he bei,eve4 ri
be the practi4ble amoure,) no remedy c...eal I'er:4
by be afforded to the ha: dens of t e ;
but the public, if encouraged to hope for this.
would uapradventage of those tr:Semes fir the na-
tional advaotage, so neeesaary in the p-esi it po,:itet
of etiairyHe had the authwity ot lodge 13;.,,k,t0w.
to say. tit it was the duty of the 110 i; etoi•
into thisimouut and eircnmeances of the pe:oare
greated by the Cr..wn ; and be considered that tt
was akso competent to the House to inquire into the
specific greats, as well as the nun set of sin •'SI
places and reversions. He dente I the pus
that the man who had a reversion try interest
place,, had a sort of fresh sld in wc.ich the parc
had ho interest. It there existed certain p e et,
places which o: ;,.;;nally We're fit MI ill 71t., he: • d
now gtoWn low Cl.:rriln(ll 0:1eS, aild ..s.
persons who could hive !V, Onion to steel p•
is his opinion the of sun formed a
proper subjea 41 inquiry by Parliament. If the
salary of a pits,.., Leld al. ofFtrisi situation
tinder Goverriaient was tint st.rlic.e.e, .
would willingly inoeiase it, for he thought 'nine
should be no monopoly of impart/Int otk to
a wealthy Aristocracy. othernise 1.0 marl could
accept an office, who had not a handsome forams,
of his own. He thought it was a misehnvoaal
pesaica to grant pensions to persons after hold.,
ing offices for a short time. It was no good-
plea for the person retiring on sr. ch pension
to say, that he bed been induced to rake the office
against his will, and by the abandonm-nt of more
lucrative situations. With this the public had ne.-
thing to do; but it held out a fair recompense for
the situation that was accepted. To obviate the ob..
jedion of an Hon. Gentleman. (Mr. Bank's), who
remarked, that of late pensions were granted Ise.
the beads of that .official department where the
person served. and which were not put upon thepen—
&ion list. he would suggest a plan by ehich every
official department should for... hi the last list re
pensions and salaries in their office. and sopcifyieg -
such persons as held seats in that House.
Mr. .10FIN S‘ll l'hi explained, and said th:r
he did not believe the power of the Crown arca
be diminished by adopting the motion of the Neel
Lord.

e!se

Mr. CURWENT explsined,
Mr. WILBERFORCE conserved, that tv!ist•er t
,shades cf difference Appeared smoi gst Ge.
on this stthjea, they WTI* rather as to the
of proceeding, than as to the measure itsrif. }ie At.
proved of the motion, as can vac., by the C:ancri
for of the Exchequer ; for he touught rt wculd
better for the House and the putfac. to knt.w, an.
genets', how sinecure places had been di•psis..l
of. He also thought, that, as Members of l'arlias.
'tient, they might properly examine whethcr tot
ernsion Liu had been granted, accordiug to tb
de.ftates of ;wind discretion, or for party pur-•
poses i He did rot agree with those Genziemera
who thrsight she salari..s of orli:ers ought r
1). so high 4% to *neg.: ane ro save an
at to Ls. afterward. upon his sAs ir..!'s with com.or.:.
lie cons, :crestpeosi,r.s granted to 'officers who h.i
been long in this servicA to be of a ruture similar t
halt-pay to officers who no v.-ay ul
/Fencing nr maintaining the:me:yes. &shay wt.
not the only objet to so official man. His uffici.d
appointment ratse • him to distindion, anJ g Ivo
the oppo.tuoity of s:rvi.ig his country. It was ii•
importance that the i louse should stand hig!-, in to, e
esteem of the country. especially among.t th': rni i-
dle clas•e: of people, and in Wile, of Mill Jatly.ei:.
'bough thorn Was a danger ou our !Joni r,f hontin r
too eagerly after p pulaiity„ and in the licase
itself to every poppsal, till it behoved Limas to ar I
upon principles of pralfical prude• ce ani goo.
sense. It was this termed she sza'sility of Govern .
meat, wile,: the people had coo6.zeore in th•-ir Go •
version; and an utilei to Ibis, II was desirahle t
shew the people that these w,. Kreat•r &grim f
independ.mco in the 11.41 i-A nr L $411'8(1113 than wa r
supposed. He wished an le.lj ;or:it:tent of she de
bats, in order that Gentlemen tvigUt be better pet ►
_ .