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London, England, 1809-03-18 00:00:00

he was ; the milder the means used in effecting
that removal the better; but he thought it due to
that House, that the public should know his re-
moval was ow iug to them. In fact she we decided-
ly ofoinnion his Ito. at Highness should have resigned
long since. The case of the Dukeof Marlborough
was in point. The Committee of that House
hod reported that the Duke, in Ins character of
Coinniander-iii-Chief, had ii npropevly put 3,0001.
into his pocket ; and lal the I louse CO gto the
determination of taking that report into consider-
ation, the Queen had, in the first instunce, imme-
diately removed him from his station, in order that
their debates might be perfectly impartial, and un-
biassed by the weight of authority. Nor could any
one say there 011 b ally thing of injustice iu such a
proceeding ; because, on the event of acquitted, he
might be restored again to his situetion. With a
ricer, therefore, to sonic such proceeelings,he Wish-
ed the House, having reviewed what had passed,
would be of opiniou, that some further ineabure.
were necessary.—The Right Honourable Gentle-
man, after outliving the House to reject the Ail-
dres3 that was proposed, now wanted to withdraw
hit Resolution ; and yet, if he were now to pro-
POW, us he might do, to restore the Address, in
the room of his Rewilution, he could not but be-
lieve there world be a 1111101 larger diVlllioll than
181.01'e ltWlillbt the Ri4lit Honourable Geotleinaii,
awl lie was almost tempted to take the sense of the
Ilooin.e in ion it.
Mr. Ileac:us Barmiest. could not conceive why,
when the public were under it mistake, the I louse
should not clear it up liy consiog to some'specilic
conclusion. pled view wonlel be fully Answered if
the resolution were permitted to be withdrawn,
and then he iutAt lie aliowed to introduce the pro-
position lie had hefore submitted to their etuiM-
deratiou. The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Per-
coeval) inste al of the etnase lie load taken, might
have negntived the Addre.:ss with the view of offer:
ing another iii its room; but if he were allowed, he
should have to move a Resoleition, ao which any
Amendment might be offered which was thought
expedient.
Mr. Ilsititalt could not firing himself to agree
to either of the Addressee; although he would
rather do all open injustice by the first, than, as it
swere, to stall, with a smile on the fame, by the second.
His Royal Highness might be free from all imput-
ation. of either corruption or eounivence. and yet
be guilty of misconduct; I therefore be con-
ceived it wits impossible fur t hem not to go further ;
should they ensue to a resolution that ite mo longer
possessed their confidence, it was bat just he should
have Ull opportunitrto retire; but au address, con-
trasting the Father with the !ion, he ronsidercal as
• most unhappy thought. Ile conceived the limper
courselor them to take, would be to express their
opinio' that corrupt practices existed: the next. in
lieu of the Right Hon. Gentleman's proposition.
%%mild be, that the House was of opinion flint the
Duke of York either participated or connived at
such practices. and that he hail permitted corrup-
tion to exist. by the cotineetiou lie hail formed, to
the injury of His Majesty'. Land Forces, and to
the scandal of his subjects.
Mr. Cease' RIGHT 18841 a few words, in which he
declared he could make 110 distinction between
connivance mud corruption.
Au Honourable Member whose moue we could
ant leans, expressed Iris revalues@ to reqinit the
Duke of those eteargea, but yet thine: lit the House
hound to express their further scare of the Lepel-
sineas, and that could be best done in the form of
Resolution.
Lord WILLIAM RrSitif.r. atrreed it was a devious
thing t* decide en the conduct of a Personage so
nearly allied to the Throne ; but his objection was
rather to the time of doing so. lie cesoceived it
had been proved, that muses did exist ; and
though some gentleineu etlireeo, d their convict-
ing without trial, yet they were called uj.rnl to'pro-
notince aye or no. His Umiak'', professed him-
self a friend to the good old pract.ce of that liouse,
which ass, ulways to inquire into the existence of
grievances, isefore they proceeded to grant the sup-
plir‘. Yet wham threw werr in the present instnuce
proved to exist, they were called an to do jusiiire to
the Doke as a pa taniatnit duty ; but sent there, as
they were, for the people, was there any subject,
however e&alted, that had any paramount claim on
eiein in particular more than another
JAIIrs HALL thought that the information
the House had as yet received upon this subject
18 a, not sufficient to justify a decision as to whether
his Royal Highness the Duke of York was guilty
or not guilty; and therefore he could not assent to
the Motion which had been proposed by the Right
flan. the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Mr. CIIARLES ADAMS spoke against the Motion.
Mr. I.O4:KHART said, that after the moat isecti-
rate and attentive perusal of the evidence, he twat
soy, it did not warrant any charge of corruption,
participation, nor connive:we in corruption, He
at the same time thought it indispensably necessary
that the House should come to Some further re-
solution, in order to do justice to his Royal High-
ness, as well as to the country. as far as the evi-
dence went.

Sir WlLitcst (merit observe,l. that nothing
conk, induce him to vote ally censure 111/011 his
Royal Highness, as he could not think him guilty
awl corruption nor el:omit/num whatever ; but at
the mine time ha thought it. proper the House
should come to* resolution of aye or ... as to whe-
ther or not the accused was guilty of any cor-
ruption.
Mr. MARK Woop expressed his sentiments as
to the propriety of the liouse comm., to smut re-
solution as to the criminality of his Itoyat High-
ness.

Mr. MAURICE FITZGERALD thought, that, from
the complicated nature of the question, there must
necessarily be considerable ambiguity abo,it the
most proper mode of proceeding. He was net in-
clined to vote for both of the Addresses, in all their
points ; but if he did do so, it was upon the ground
that something else was to follow them. There was
no individual who had less connection with the

'Royal Family than he had ; but lie way bold to say,
that there was none 5..0 concurred with the Itle•
jority, who could entertain a sentiment degrading
to that family. It had beet& said, that any resolu-
tion of a contrary nature would amount to a Bill of
exclusion, but he could not bring himself to think
to. Ile felt much inclined to give his vote upon
some specific Resolution, one way or another, for

• 1

it was highly consistent with the ptivilea.es and
authority ot that House, that they should coin-
to some Resolution expressive of their judgment ;
but it was certainly Mc/Insistent with the regulatity
of their proceedings to call in the authority of the
Crown in the discussion of such a question. If
they had at heart the interest mid feelings of the
Sovereign, they should see the necessity of decid-
ing this question, withuu involving His Majesty in
any opinion whatever. Ile thought the pi(weed-
ing by address would be preferable to tiny Re-
solution whutever ; because, however much they
might be disposed to avoid c g to any deca-
-1
sum at all, yet still they must look to public
Lopiniott in regard to such a great and popular
question, awl the couseopience likely to arise
fruin their deeisinii. He did really lament
that Ills hlujesty Mieisters had thought proper
; not to agree to the original mode of prot (lure pro-
. peewit by the Mover of these charges, in regard to
the evidence produced ; for instead of that, they had
mideittly as 1011 tell a music most improper, and
tending inure to ag,itate the public mind than any
timitiry that could hate been but on foot.
priwral Egaouson said, he *lmola ever concur
in the applause and eucomutnis that had been be-
sillt‘ ell 1111011 his Hot al Highness, for the benefits
he had conferred epee the army ; anti feeling the
many personal favours he had enjoyed from that
!nostrums Perionage, it was w'!h heartfelt regret
lie had been obliged to give a vote against him.—
Every personal costsideratiou, however, mint be
overcome by their sense of duty to their r unhti-
thetas and he must state his opinion to be, that
his Royal Ill4liness had been eery incorrect mid
culpable; and, therefore, he could not conceive that
lie could ever retain the situation he now held, as
Cos 1111 l and( r-isi• Chief, either with restiefaction to
or advantage to the country.
Lord tics RY l'erry said, it seemed to be mostly
agreed upon, on all sides of the House, that the
elution which had been proposed by the Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite, was, under all cirentn-
'tenet's, most objectionable. The only difference
of /JIM on now existing, was us to the wiener in
which that Resolution, formerly suggested, should
now be disposed ot; or, as to whether it should
be entirely withdrawn, or negatived. The plan
that eught now to be adopted, under the special
circumstances recognised in this case, was to con-
fine the House to such considerations as would not
confound themselves with others already implied
in their proceedings. He was one of timse that
thought no such Resolution as the one now under
discussion ought to be adopted, for there should
nut appear upon the Journals of the House any
provolone.' that would recognise the epeeist cit-
e tances of this case. It was most essential
that no official character should be recognised, fur
the House should see nothing but what was inci-
dental to the duties of the office; and therefore he
was ;inlet anxious to guaid against any such pro-
position as had now been suggested. Ile could
see NO objection to the motion being withdrawn,
hut still he thought it would be must satisfactory
to the country that it should lie nog:dived. lie
hoped the Right llonotinible lleistleinati who pro-
posed it originelly, would see the propriety of net
pressing it upon the House.
Mr: Cairns Will a few words upon the general
nature of the question. iii justification of his Royal
Highness the Duke sat York,
Kir JUHN Mownnsy said, he hart never received
ally favours front his Royal Meatless, but lie could
nut help thinking that if the army were to lose hint
as Commander-Ili-Chief, it would 'anemia.c a lots
almost iiveperable ; ussy resolution therefiore that
went to justify his Role! Highness in the eyes of
the public sheathd have his support.
The Cii.exestLott of the FectiralvEß said, that
as it appeared to lie the pleasure of the House that
the. noel lie had sit first suggested should be
withdrawn, lie felt no inclination to preas it upon
them. r such circumstances, tlwrefore, in-
stead ot wishing pertinueinutly to press it to a ne-
genre. he should :dhow it to be withdrawn, for the
purpose of proposing an amendment.
The motion at line proposed was then withdrawn
with the concurrence of the House.
The CIL% u tei.t.oaolthe EXLIIEQIISR then add-
ed, that he should propose to the Homer, the Remo-.
lotion, which, under existing cficumblances, he
thought the I louse ought to adopt, as expressive of
the guilt or innocence of his Royal Ilighnest. In
recommending it to their notice, he should make
hut a few observations, as the mutter had been al-
ready se fully discussed. He meant in it to adopt
some of the suggestions that had been thrown nut
by others in the course of the former (Ideate, and
to express that there were no animist, in the evi-
dence for charging his RoyarHightiets with cor-
ruption or connivauce in the corrupt pivotals
that had existed, in the execution of his duty. Ile
did this because he thought it would Ire reach do-
ing an injury to time Duke of York to con-
vey even these favourable sentiments in the
shape of an address, instead of a resolution.
It by no means appeared, that any want of
unanimity upon such u resolution would be as-
cribable to its being the mods of expressing
the sentiments of the House, instead of sill address.
At all events, he, for one, would not wish to pur-
chase unanimity myna those terms, in the acquittal
of lois Royal I ligliness ; for he thought he should
not he doing his duty to the public, if he did tint
bring the matter forward in terms of the utmost
distinctness, so thut there could be no doubt as
to the men ll ill g of what WWI intended. Ile saw
no reason for imputing any knowledge what-
ever of the corrupt practices of Mrs. Clarke
to the Duke of Y.wk, and therefore lie did not
think lie would he doing justice to Ins Royal
Highness, if lie did not propose to the House
such • Resolution, as clearly and distinctly ac-
quitted him of all knowledge of corrupt practices.
Ibis opinion was, that after the House had first dis-
posed of this question, in the way of Resolution,
they might afterwards take it sip in the way of Ad-
dress, and it. was even still left open to the blouse, ,
if they toiought blarue did annuli toils Royal High-
ness, to propose Lis removal, if they deemed it netts.
sary. There was, therefore, iso iiiconsisteney in his
it:wooing this matter for their adoption ; first. in the
mode of a Resolution, instead of MI Address, for lie
did conceive it absolutely necessary the House
should express an opinion as to corruption, or con-
nivance at corruption; as *nth crime's were evi-
dently coutained in these charge's, and co criminal

•

proreedhig nor tral could be instituted without
scone resolution Of that tiettfirl'. It'u:as not fur him
to censure the "concisasiorr the House might come
to, nor did he isterattf eutrap the House into u
course: of proceediil with which they did not stein
to concur. As to the question of the immoralitv
of the case, that might be made a matter of
subsiejuent cousideratom, according to eircum-
stanees. Upuis the whole, the House "ore left
at perfect liberty, even after passing all the Re.
solutious necessary upon this subject, to propose
coy Address they- chose ; but as to soy motion of
removal of His 'toys' Highness from the office he
held, that appeared perfectly out of the question.
Ile c :erred emit it was, continued to the 141tIVISC•
tUtil of o-ery one, ou both bides of the House, that
the persou a host cotldurl was the subject of in-
y, tiny, hail, for no less than IU years, tilled the inua
illlpoi toot office of Commander-in-Chief, with mule
'lotions mid credit to himself than utmost any put-
ter s:.:rvaiit whatever, ud therefore au officer w Ito lisel
'lime so mita, ought not to lie so much pressed, u,
10, hardly itli, fur it was surely most desirsiH •
r that lie should return to his situation. 'that his Ito ...1
Highness might be superseded be did not deny,
he had certainly trained the AJili es, tittle a ties of
retai 1111 l g it. If, however. such a iesolution co Mil
he adopted, as would 14XIITPss 111 buff-
eleutly stroii language, so as to imply eyesore,
should the House still think that any severity
were necessary, such a resolutioa might pin-
bably supersede the necessity of oily addrew,
and equally attain they object to be aimed tit.
The Right Ikiwi.rable Gentleman then coot:haled
soli moving. us un amendment to his ougilial
motion. That it is the. opinion of this blouse,
that after the fullest and most attentive considers-
two of the evsience reported to the llouse, by the
Committee of the whole House, appointed to in-
vestigute the conduct of his Royal Highness tie
Duke of Yolk, he said evidence milord& ro
ground for charging his Royal Highness, iii the es-
emitiou of his official duties, us teisiniander-ii.-
Chief, with any corruption, our with 4:11!11•IVa:u e
at any practices that are disclosed therein."
Mr. LYTTLETON said, he felt disposed to tin
ample justice to the spirit nod motives which a,
tuated the Chino :rhos of the Exchequer in Ming-
ing forward this question iu the 'simmer wow
supt-
;;ested. He made no doubt he (Mr. Pereeval;
felt conviticcd it sus incumbent upon him to pur-
suit upon the Home to preinotuice a senteilee wf
complete acquittal or the Illustrious Per:soh:iv at-
cubed ; but it appealed there was an iseconsistemy
in such a course oi. procedure. It would appear
that it was not time custom of that Hoase to pro.
nounce any decision that tended to defeat subiw.
quent proceedings. He might refer to precedents
in the turbulent and unhappy Jeep of ch.ries
as appeared upou their Joinuais. It was thew
evident, Matto those times there was uo necessity of
coming to such a decision as that proposed.by the
Chaiwellor of the Exchequer, for it was deemed a
mutter of policy and discretion, whether the house
should proceed by Address or by Resolution. lie
entirely agreed with the arguments and sentirathis
urged in the course of the late di late, us to the
esteem in w:tieh w Prince of the blood ought to
be held ; for he thought that the character of. a
Prince us% in the eyes of isesolsiod, the ..iiiiriteter
of the nation itself. it was utterly impossibk to
separate them ; 101' their glory or their disgrace
was mutually telt. it was impossible in the messy%
iustance out to see the criossuality of the Prime. In
his opinion, the clisrges were fully made out from
the evidenec befehe ibruse; which, if not he every
point of view actually the hest, yet enlist be owned
to teethe:best uhich the nature mad carcutostrintesof
the case would admit. That evidence had been cor-
roborated by collateral roofs, sad followed up
with the actual confession of the party accused,
ler his hated and seal. , Suet. was the sentiincio
he had formed, and Its could 1:ot see ally reason to
change that conclusion he had at first formed M.
this subject. Tl.e wituesses were evidently such
as might it induced to speak the contrary of shirt
they had actually deposed. Ile could not ogre.
with the argument that had hrets used, as to solar
trifling prevarication vetting side their tiiitiniciii,s;
for he must say, that even in the course of tar vas
ricatioa, they a ere 'tram: ly corraorati
Although he could not hut (MU that les Ho' al
flightless had reudeved services to the army ; )tt
it was well kuovvu that inideace of character sat
good for nothing. except in the euitqpition of piis
iiishisient. It was evident that great suspicion Um-
Udall to his Royal Highness, and therefore the
Resolution they should come to ought to be one by
which the House might out cnismot itself a ith re-
gard to insiocesicet wkru perhaps there might be oc-
clusion to resolve afterwards operant' impeachment.
The Ilion. Gentlemen concluded withespressing an
intentioil to dissent from the motion proposal.
Sir IinMAS Tt'Uto,l thud tiot*ltlo.truidin.4
the time this subject had occupied the attention of
the House, nothing hod yet hero done; MA it
would appear Us if no ing were meant to be done.
A Right Hon. Gentleman hail said, that he believed
the Doke of York comely innocent of the charges
,imputed to him. Ile roussileved it their partiCular
duty to speak their sentiments plainly; therefore
if the 110,;!it Hon. Gentleman did think the Duke
of York innocent. be highly approved of his declar-
ing so publicly. He felt it his duty also plainly to
declare his sentiments, before God and the eoutitry,
and acknowledge, that he believed his Royal IF;-)--
miss %NS guilty of corrupt practices, and
ha should Consider it dastardly in any ...
to Atsirlaiin his sentiments. The words " Fiat
runt, culotte," hr considered eompletely appli-
cable ei the present case. ibis Royal Highness's,
conduct was now brought to the test, to die " Aye.
or No." Let Gentleiuru declare themselves so.
that. when they go home to tlww closets, they may
approve their judgments; let them lay their bands
on their !warts. and obey the impulse; let them
so express their beliefs at: will justify them to their
constiments..—ln the course of the ilisctiwoon he
had heard it imitemied, that no guilt mooched tii
hes Koval Highness, where lie heal no kriowledee
of the crime:soil that a knowleoge of what rill
going on was no COUNliValleC. The Ron. Ihironet
stud Ire knew of no such disfinetio a. ; but firing
couvineed that the Duke of York was guilty, hr
should move as au Amendment, that all the word•
fallowing the words '4 to !deuce attorits," iu the
Chancellor of that Esehegorr's motion, shatifil let
omitted, and the words grouotl to charge lia