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excitemeat of the moment. The Hon. Member had been himself
in arms, he would ask him if it were possible when men were called
on to put down mutiny, when once let loose was it possible all at
once to stop the slaughter, to check the effusion of blood ? If such
were practicable it would be contrary to history, it would belie every
mart's own experience. Then came the punishment afterwards. And
can any man say that 11 were too many to make victims of ? May
not the evidence have justified it? M iglu it not have appeared
that these were rinkleaders ? Surely credit ought to be attached to
those who were on the spot. It was idle to attempt correcting the
judgment of three persons who were acquainted with the localities
and immediate circumstances. So far was he convinced of this,
that if all the evidence were laid before hint, if every particle of it
were brought under his view, still be felt he could not be able to
judge as well as the officers who had heard it. The Rt. Hon. Gent.
after some further remarks, went on to say, that as to the punish-
ment of the Brahmins he should have been sorry to see men of their
high rank subjected to the military punishment usually inflicted on
European troops for similar oftences. Now, to come to the affair
at Rangoon ; the question was not whether we were successful or
not; the real question was, whether Rangoon was not, under all
the circumstances, the most desirable quarter from which to make
the attack. Lori Amherst was advised that the caption of that
place was a thing much to be wished for before he determined on the
selection. He had the best counsel ; he acted on the best advice :
and that point of attack was particularly recommended. So far had
he gone to obtain the most satisfactory information. that Major
Campbell had actually sailed four times up the harbour, and was
decidedly of opinion that the capture of Rangoon would do much
effectually to cripple the necessary supply of provisions to the Bur-
mese troops, and make them give up sooner. When he (Mr.
Wynn) said this. let him not be supposed as desirous of any acces-
sion of territory in India. (Hear, hear.) On tke contrary, he con-
ceived it would be highly detrimental to our interests, and therefore
could not regard the extension of territory otherwise than as impo-
litic. (Hear, hear.) But no alternative was left to Lord Amherst ;
he felt himself compelled to go to war ; he could not shrink from it
without lowering the character of England. (Hear, hear.) And
if that character should eye be unfortunately lowered in India,
who was prepared to answer for tits consequences ? (Hear, hear.)
However, that was not • time for discussing the propriety or int-
-1 propriety of going to war. %%enemr that question came regularly
before the house, he would be ready with a defence of Lord
Amherst. As to the peaceable and quiet attitude of affairs on
that Nobleman's assuming the government of India, he would
' take that opportunity of observing, that if peace were to be had, he
could hardly conceive how a person of such turn of mind as Lord
Amherst would wantonly provoke war. Let the House see what
the opinion of others was on that head. Lord 11l into was decidedly
of opinion that an eruption with the Burmese may not be distant ;
and most probably had success attended our arms in the Nepaul
war, Lord Hastings would have been Involved in the Burmese war.
That Nobleman, it was true, had got rid of it dexterously by
sending back the letter. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) That suc-
ceeded once, but would it have done a second time ?
Mr. HUME asked what about the reititutions of the native
officers ?
Mr. C. WYNN resumed. With respect to the restitution of
the officers it was impossible to say what the circumstances war-
ranted ; it was not going too far to say, that it was impossible a
mutiny could be going on without their knowing its nature—their
close habits of intimacy with the troops twiddled the means of
coming at information; they must, therefore, be guilty of gross
' negligence in not giving timely notice of it; for hip own part be
was more inclined to attribute it to negligence than to a guilty con-
nection with the mutineers. In either case their conduct was retire-
-1 'tensible, and deserved dismissal ; they merited restitution of
office, almost all of them, for a culpable inattention to their duty,
as far as a participation in the guilt ; they either must nr ought to
be cognisant of the proceedings. The Right lion. Gentleman went
on to say, that it was Rot fair the House should reserve its
opinion until some informatioo arrived from India, and concluded
by expressing his belief, that with regard to all the private letters
on the regulations of Lord Amherst, not one regulation excited
greater disconteut or was the cause of so many letters, as the fact
that lie, at the ft at ball given after his arrival in India, danced
with the lady of the Commodore instead of the ladies of the senior
merchants. (A laugh.) That single transgression of his excited
towards him more hostility, and called down greater excitation on
him, than any other act. (lieu, and a laugh.)
Mr. ROBERTSON expressed his uneasiness at the present
posture of affairs in India. Was it possible to be Indifferent to the
state of that country, when it was considered that the Emperor of
China may possibly, if we met with a reverse of fortune, come
with a mighty army to dispossess us? And who could say
that if things went on aii they were going, but India may soon be
in a blue ? That consideration should weigh with the House ; it
was not so much the loss of territory he valued as the lives that
would be exposed there. The Hon. Gentleman made some further
remarks, and said, that nothing was to be apprehended from the
Burmese (as we unsterstoed). That poor harmless people had
no means of injudeg us ; on a late occasion three companies of
Sepoys defeated 11,000 of than.
Colonel DAVIT S lemented the conduct pursued towards the
the troops who had mutinied. The unfortunate people would, he
was sure, Lare laid down their *ems if properly spoken to ; but
when they had no expectation of it, artillery which had been
designedly brought to bear on them was discharged ; the very idea
of such cruelty was suffieWnt te make • man's blood boil in his
veins (Hear, heir.) He had himself no means of personal ob-
servation. but he had spoken to many officers of experience in India
and heard front them that there did hot breathe braver troops than
the Sepoys. They were, if required, ready to brave any danger—
to go even to the cannon's mouth ; but by the subsequent proceed.
ings what were they ? The officers were branded with disaffection
—they were characterised as unworthy of confidence, and dismissed
with disgrace. Such conduct made hint blush for the British name.
From these things we were well able to judge what Lord Amherst
was capable of doing on other matters. He did not know whether
his Hon. Friend (Mr. Hume) meant to persevere in his motion to
a division; if he did he (Colonel Davies) should most certainly sup-
port him ; end he hoped that his Hon. Friend, whether successful
or not, would follow up the motion of this night until the whole
of these most extraordinary proceedings were thoroughly made
known.
Mr. FREMANTLE owned he was astonished at some of the
observations which had been made by the Gsl'ant Officer who had
just sat down. Considering the profession of that Gallant Colonel,
considering his character and his experience, he (Mr. Fremantle)
should have thought it impossible for him, as a military man, not
to have perceived the absolute necessity which existed of putting
down the mutiny at Barrackpore by the most prompt and decisive
measures. And when that Gallant Officer spoke of tio remonstrance
having been made with the men, and no warning having been given
them, he (Mr. Fremantle) could not restrain his astonishmeht, be-
cause it was well known that a' that very moment a military i :quiry
was going on, and it was not even attempted to put down the
mutinous spirit which had broken out by having recourse to force,
until every thing had been done to prevent those misguided men
from going on and bringing ruin upon themselves. The Gallant
Officer had indeed stated one thing which was most true. lie had
said, that there was no army more able, none more sincerely
attached to their commanding officers, none more faithfully brave
in the encountering of the enemy, than the native troops of India.
This truth had been testified to for these fifty years past by actions
the most glorious, not only to the admiration of India and all
Europe, but to every one who considered or felt for the interests of
England throughout that extensive empire This mutiny, how-
ever, he would say, was one that required to be immediately sup-
pressed—a mutiny founded upon what ? Why upon an order for
marching against the enemy. Ile was really astonished to
hear the Gallant Officer state that the severity used towards
men guilty of such insubordination on such a ground was too
much. Ile (Mr. Fremantle) would affirm, that the severity
was not too great ; tor did he indeed conceive any severity
at all to have been exercised, inasmuch as that every effort
had been previously made to induce those men to put down
their arms. It had been objected that this money was but partial„
anti did not, therefore, demand such decisive measures for its sup.
pression. But the danger was not merely that which arose from
the insubordination of that particular regiment ; the danger con-
sisted in this, that so long as this mutinous spirit was allowed to
exist, there was ground for apprehending its spreading throughout
every regiment on Cat expedition. The men were told, that if they
did not put down their arms, immediate efforts would be taken to
compel them; it could not therefore be said that the artillery was
' bro refit upon them isehrsetalrend.wltitout ~Meg. If the Hon.
I ientleman (Mr. Hume) had opened this debate with a spirit of
fairness, and with a Vital only to inquiry, he (Mr. Fremantle)
should have felt disposed to have entered further into the subject
than he had done; but as the Hon. Member had made it a medium
of hostility and attack upon the character of Honourable indivi-
duals, of whose conduct we had no authentic information, lie should
decline doing so. The House of Commons was not in a situation
to sit in judgment upon the conduct of Lord Amherst, or of any
other of the authorities in India; he should therefore only apply him.
self to one more point, which had been alluded to by that Hon.
Member for Aberdeen. That Honourable Gentleman had spoken
touch respecting the despatch of the Court of Directors inlft23, and
had represented it to have contained orders for the reduction of the
pay of the native troops. Now, he would distinctly state to the
Hon.Geutleman, that so far from any diminution of any allowance,
or the deprivation of any of the advantages or perquisites enjoyed
by the native army of India, being directed by dust despatch, the
whole of it applied exclusively to tits European corps, and that to
the officers oily. It had reference to certain arrangements regard-
ing those officers, and he would, say that the principle which was
observed in those arrangements, die recommendation of the Marquis
of flutings himself was generally adorned ; in some instances, that
recommendation was certainly departed front, but in the keeling
principle they were adopted; and that principle was, to place the
native and European soldiers upon an equal footing. That was
the great object of those arrangements ; a difficult and delicate task
to accomplish certainly, but one that was very desirable to be
effected. This arrangement however, was oot meant to apply to
the army of Bengal at the then present moment, but it was
to be adopted whenever reliefs took place In no one instance
had there been a remonstrance from any of the local govern-
ments of that country with regard to those military arrange-
ments. In justice to the East India Company, that with •
view to carry this principle of equalising the army into effect,
they had added to their expenses no less a sum than 200,0001.
a-year. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the recent conduct of Lord
Amherst, he would only observe, that so far from deserving con.
denination for the course he had adopted, he (Mr. Fremantle)
should be greatly disappointed, if the proceedings that were now
taking place did not teed to a firmer bond of peace and of per-
manent tranquillity between the Empire and a!1 the other States of
India.
Colonel BA ILLIE connploioetl that the conduct of the Governor-
General of India had been judged of without any autlientic infor-
mation before time Houses The defeat of the army under Lord

I

Amherst had not been without a parrallel. He could refer to the
Nepaul war, when • mdst shaniefel defeat of • great part of our
gallant army, under the come/nand of a nio.t able General, took
place. Nor was the recent mutiny • solitary instance among the
native troops of India. He had seen one or two mutinies in the
army of India. Oct one occasion, about thirty years ago, the
army was ordered hi embark, as it was considered necessary that
'they should go by sea; when the native troops were commanded
to go on board they refused and mutinied ; and the consequence was,
that they were put down by means fully as calamitous as had been
scanned to at Barrackpore. The officers were degraded, the '
15th regiment was ordered to be struck out of the list. and
many of the men were punished. With regard to the punishment
of the native officers by Lord Amherst, lie had no hesiterion ii say-
ing, from the knowledge of thirty years which be lied of India, that
to mutiny could have occurred among the men without their know-
ledge, and they must have connived at it ; their punishment was
therefore just, but that this punishment would be permanent he
had great doubts. The officers and men in the native troops were
most nearly reisted—many of the men were the children of the
officers, who were chore who had been in the army for thirty or
forty yeas*. With regard to the complaint of the Hon. Member,
that several of die native officers who had been dismissed wets
Brahinitne he (Mr. Fremantle) conceived the Hen. Gentleman to
Ibe under sonic mistake. There were many Rajpoots and high
I caste men certainly in the troops, but the Brahmins formed a very
small proportion. lie bad great doubts whether the Lion. Member
would find one Brahmin degraded, and on the roads, is bad been
represented. But the whole of this information was; after all,
merely private, and formed no fair ground for &bete. lie bad
himself received various letter, in which the numbers of persons
shot had been seated as variously. Same said they amounted to
480, others to 470, another stated to MO, and some as few as 100
men. As to the character of the Governor-General of India,
whose conduct we at present knew nothing of, and which might be
of the greatest service to this country at the moment that we were
now called upon to stigmatise hint, he conceived it very unjust to
that Nobleman to form our judgment upon it until fully and more
authentic information was before us.
Sir C. FORBES said, of the Governor-General's private charac-
ter he was ready to speak in the highest terms ; but he should not
at the same time be deterred from giving expression to the opinions
he entertained of that Nobleman's public conduct. Ile conunended
the comfort of herd Amherst on the occasion mentioned by the
Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Wynn), in giving the Ladyof
Commodore Hayes in precedence to the Ladles of the au error
merchants. It was quite necessary to combat with that absurd feel.
ing on the part of the merchants. He begged to state to the House;
that lie had • letter. informing him that when the army were
directed to march to Barrack pore they did so at a day's notice,
without leaving • single man behind. They were then well sup-
plied with cooleys and cattle for their baggage, and indeed with
every comfort belonging to an army. But what was the ca-e when
they were ordered to march against the Burmese ? They were
ordered to march with their baggage at their backs, and were bur.
thened like so many porters. Their language was—we are not
cooleys, and will not carry our cooking utensils at out backs.
This, he contended, was the fact, although not officially stated. It
had been said that this was only private information ; but how
should we obtain information in the absence of the public prise,
but through the medium of private correspondence? Ile would
produce a letter which he had received from India by the last ar-
rivals. He observed the Honourable Member (Mr. Astell) smiled.
It was true he had allowed the Honourable Member to read the
letter. His Honourable Friend (Mr. Hume) bad stated, that he
had received letters from medical men, military men, and com-
mercial men ; but his (Sir Charles Forbes's) letter was not from
either of those classes—his was from a lady. (A laugh.) It was
not certainly from the Lady of the Commodore, nor was it from '
either of those ladies who had complained of the conduct of Lard
Amherst in giving her the precedence of them ; but it was from the
wife of a gallant officer who was at Rangoon, fighting with the
Burmese, and a more fearful enemy still—the climate of that pes-
tilent country. This letter was dated the 18th of November last.
The lady says, " I think Lord Amherst must have enough at this
moment upon his mind. Certainly it was a nervous and pitiful
time for India. The public prints will have told you of the mutiny
at Barrackpore, in the 47th native regiment." Now, unfortunately,
the public prints did not tell us the whole of this. They told us
indeed of the orders of Lord Amhtr,t, but not of the circumstances
which could justify them. The letter proceeded—" It has been
struck off the list in consequence. The artillery and two European
regiments were brought out against the mutineers, and though
every thing is quiet now, and it is that General Paget has quelled
the dissatisfaction, yet it is apprehended that the spirit of discon-
tent has spread widely through the native troves, and these is DO
knowing whether it will not break out somewhere else, where there
are no European troops to put them down."—This was indeed the
most fearful consequence to be apprehended. The fair writer then
observed—" that the ridiculous system of economy so much in
vogue now a days (much laughter) would not do in India, and one
would have thought that:Governors in this country had had cape.
rience enough of the folly of interfering with the natives on the
Madras side, without cutting down their allowances for cooler' and
carriage here. The Sepoys here are high caste men, and will not
consent to carry their cooking utensils on their backs like labourers."
It appeared to him (Sir Charles Forbes) that when it was found that
the cattle had fallen short, and complaints were made, that some
measures should have been takes to have supplied the Sepoys with
more. It had been said, indeed, that 4.000 rupees had been issued
to furnish this supply; but if the Government of Bengal had of.
fend a lee of rupees it would have been of no avail when there was
no cattle to be obtained. We had been told that ten bullocks bad
been supplied to each company. This was in direct opposition to
all the letters which he had received ; and he would ask the Right
lion. Gentleman (Mr. Wynn) what was the nature of the au-
thority he had to speak on this subject? Why, from private
letters. _ _ . _

Air. WN'NN—No, no; from the Commander-in-Chief.
Sir C. FORBES—WeII, be it so. He would set against that
letter those which he had received from men of character and in.
formation, who were fully competent to speak correctly bn the sub.
jetet. Ile now would advert to that part of the transaction which
had been so ably and eloquently alluded to by the Gallant (Hiker
(Colonel Davies)—he meant the cruel treatment of the men at
Barrackpore. When these men had thrown down their arms
where was the necessity of following them, hewing them down, and
driving them into the river, during the whole of a forenoon ? In
all the mutinies that had taken place (and one would suppose, by
what had been said this night, that nothing was of snore common
occurrence), where did ever such a thing happen before a. that
which was acted towards those unfortunate men ? A mutiny at
Madras occurred in the army under Sir Reginald Smith, when
under orders to march ; and how did that able Officer act? Ile called
the whole of the men out, and said to them," You shall niarch ; if you
will not do so voluntarily I will make you." He then spoke to them
in language suite& to their feelings and their habits ; he conversed
with them on the Belly of their conduct, and appealed to their to.
tions of honour ; the consequence was, the corps which had mu-
tinied were made ashamed of their conduct, the whole regiment
gave a loud huzza, and immediately returned to their duty. ye
was convinced, that if means such as these had been used with the
troops et Barrackpore, the same result would have followed. He
was satisfied, that if such men as Sir Reginald Smith and Sir John
Malcolm had been at Barrackpore, no such calamities would have
occurred as those which had happened there. Much had bean said
regarding the effect of:example upon the other native troops ; but
tAen the European troops should be taken into the Burmese nu-
, pire, they would then eee what were the feelings of the native troops
in consequence of this harsh and cruel proceeding. They would
find that this act would be revenged ; for much rather would
those men have had their lives taken front them than have been
so disgraced. There were no less than thirteen Brahmins in
' the regiment that had been struck off the list. Such men would
have preferred death to the degradation that had been thus in.
dieted on them. He considered this House and the country
at large to be ton much disposed to shut their eyes to the real state
of India. We had been called upon to defer the expression of our
opinions until more official information had arrived. He was not
for waiting to see the issue of all these measures before lie formed
his opinion. lie found India to be in a most alarming and danger.
ous state, and he would ask who had brought the country into that
state? Hear, hear.) Was the man who had done so the most
likely to get us met of it ? lie would say, no; and he now called
upon his Ma: - ay's Ministers to recal Lord Amherst, and to select
a man of talent, who possessed the confidence of the public both of
England and of ITAL.., to conduit our affairs in that country.
That Lord Amherst did possess either the one or the other he
most positively denied. It might be said that he did by his per.
sonal friends; but he (Sir C. Forbes) formed his judgment from
the public feeling; and all the persons with whom he had ever
spoken on India affairs declared their opinion to be, that Lord
Amherst was not a fit and proper person to be Governor-General of
that country. lie would challenge any of that Nobleman's friends
to disprove h's assertion. It' he were stating anything that was
wrong, let any Gentleman get up and say so. As no one did Fig,'
he should conclude that silence gave consent. (A laugh, and
question, question.) We shall have the question by.and-by. It was
not often that he troubled the House, but when he felt strongly on a
subject, no power either in or out of that House should prevent hint
from expressing hisopinions. With regard to the Burmese war he con-,
sidered it to be a most disastrous one, and the sooner it was put an
end to the better. It was, in his opinion, totally impossible for us
to conquer the Burmese, and he was happy to hear the Right Ho.
nourab'le Gentleman (51r. Wynne) disclaim all idea of conquest.
But such was the passion of the Company's servants in India for
acquisition, that every additional portion of territory they gained
only made them anxious to get more, and sure he was, that
not one itch of the Burmese country, if acquired, would be
given up again. bone reason or other, either that it formed
a better boundary, or some other pretence, would be found
for the purpose of retaining it. He conceived the war to
hare been the snore unadvised, and the proceedings atteed-
ing it argulug the greatest imbecillity on the part of the Govern°.
General, and he therefore thought that the friends of Lard Amherst
could not do his Lordship a greater favour titan by has ing him
recalled.
Col. BAILLIE explained.
Sir J. SEBR IGH T.—He rose to protest against the conduct of
the Honourable Baronet who had just addressed the House.
He would ask the British House of Commons, whether the cha-
racter of the British Governor-General in India was to be
called into question by the private letter of a lady. be the
credit of tint lady what it might ? U'hen Lord Amherst's Admi-
nistration should be brought fairly to the test by official papers,
then it might be proper, perhaps, to condemn hini, and ha, al.
though that Nobleman's friend, would be as ready as any
man to do justice towards the public. But was • lady a
letter to be the ground of attack against the character of
Lord Amherst? The Honourable Baronet had called upon
the friends of Lord Amherst to get up and oppose his asset.
tioos. He (Sir J.ticlaright) was that Wend; lie sain protested