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London, England, 1807-03-27 00:00:00

dnithis, as to whether the question had been dir
tinCt;e undei stood, in regard to its fell ostatit, either
by Its M jetty, or by some Members of the Cabinet
themselves. The words of the Lord Lieutenant's
Secietary were undoubtedly the cause of bringing
this matter tender concideratiou ; because I, along
with others, felt the necessity and propriety of any
doubts being coinelerely removed, previous to the
Bali being introduced ions Parliament. Some die-
tinfliim may, in certain c .ses, be made betwixt a
private Member of Parliament and a Minister. I
conceive, that a Minister may, as an individual
Member of Parliament, introduce Measures, to
which the antheorty of Government is in no degree
pledged. I could adduce instances of this, in re-
ined to the late %r. Pitt. That Gentleman intro-
duced both the subj:•et of Parliamentary Reform,
sod of the Steve 'Pride Abolition, without con=
suiting or having the previous consent of tie exist-
ing Gcvernmtmt. My Neti:e Friond, in the other
i T,nor, ( Lord Grenville), and myself, have, u 'n-
erve:wet Members of the Cabinet, introduced a
e•easure of a similar nature with that last one
I have shaded to, 1 mean the Bill for the
Abolition of that infamous trade, dosing the
short time we bare had the honour of being
in chi Admiiiistration, which, thank God, has at
length been successful. In the present measure, so
introduced, we had the sandier:l of a written an-
charity ; otherwise I should have thought my-
setC under existing ciieumninces, highly censor-
able. if I had introdu:ert that Bill into Parliament,
without btlevieg that I had the consent of my
Colleagues in office, as well as the consent of the
rng. I have stated, however, that a doubt arose,
as to the extent of the Bill in question. It WAS
then deteisninett, in the Cabinet, in the absence of
Lord Spencer alone, (he being absent from iii
health) that I should write a dispatch to the Lord
Lieutenant, inclosing the particular clauses in-
tended to be introduced into the Mutiny Bill,
Bating dietinaly, that they were in confor-
mity with the dipatch I had fornicrly sent, and
adding expressly, that the Catholics were to be ad-
mitted to pi eferrnent in the army, without tests Rhone;
which confirmed what had been explained by Mr.
Elliot, at the meeting I have stated. That dispatch '
was sent to the Catht,iics, after having been on the
previous Methlay sent by me to His Majesty, been
pernsed by him, and returned to me without the
small. st hint of dissent. (land marks of approba-
tion). 1 say, that under such circumstances, it was
insmedaattle forwarded by me to the Lord Lieutenant ;
a step whir* I could-never hesitate to adept, in any
case where I found such tetisbdion so expressed. In
the mean time, &jet:lions were started to the mea-
sure, after it was brought into this House, in point
of the form of proceed'. g ; and, on reconsideration ,
of the matter, is was thought better to introduce it
in the shape et a separate Bill, instead of expressiit
it in the Clause., alluaied to in the Mutiny Bill Oa
the Wednesday following, I attended the Leyte at
St. Janses's, and had a particular audience of H.l
'Majesty, who asked me what was the business com-
ing on that day at the House ? I told him, that tke
Mutiny Bill was corning fa. wird, and I men-
tuned, at the saute time, that this chance in
dre fuser el peassedere, bad been fraud necessary,
in order not to impede the progrees of that Bill.—
He asked rue whether the separate Bill intended to
be brought forward, was not the same, in point of
form, as the Irish Mt of Parliament? I stated the
circumstances in which this last Bill was to differ
from the former, which, I added, had been already
explained to His Melesty in the dispatch already
laid before him, two days bi fare that on which I
was addressing him. I, also, on that occasion, re-
stated the reasons which induced me to think it was
a measure indispensably necessary for the welfare
asd security, not only of the regular Government
of the country, hut the very existence of his do-
minions. His Majesty upon that occasion did ex-
press to me a general assent and approbation of the
measure. Meer ! bear ! hear : hear ! ) I did un-
derstand from that conversation, that I had re-
ceived such an express consent, as led me to con-
clude, that the assent originally given bad not
been withdrawn, and that I might safely and
with propriety bring that Bill into the House; what
confirmed me in this opinion and intention was, that
Lord Grenville had bad an audience with His Ma-
jesty on that very day, and I learnt from him that
His Majesty did not state any thing about the Bill.
Under these imps essions and convidions. I certainly
did introduce the Bill into Parliament; and during the
whole of the week, I heard nothing of the nature of
tkjeltion to the measure, from that high quarter.
Swine objeftions were, however, stated by one of
my Colleagues I dluding we suppose to Lord Sid-
mouth). Although I had communications in the
WWI time with His Majesty, relative to other sub-
Jetts. no objeftions were ever stated to me by His
Majesty, nor did I ever hear of them from any
other quarter, till I happened to be absent from the
frHouse, on account of the loss of one of my near 1
relation,. I
learnrd that His Majesty had stated
dedded objeflinni ro I.'rJ Gienvile, to the mut-
sute, m far as It went beyond what was granted in
the Irish Aft et Parliament ; and that he had recur-
red to the conversation with me on the preceding
Wednesday. I WAS immediately convinced that His
Majesty bad aftually misunderstood the staled be.
fere him. Alter having introduced the Bill into
Parliament, I felt it my duty again to explain my
conduit to His Majesty. I according'y demanded
an audience of H.; Majesty npon the following day,
and told him I must have misunderstood his most
gracious erpressiona, which be had used to me
upon the subjed of this Bill. From that moment
rt became a 'skied of the moat anxious considera-
tion of Ministers, perntaded as they were, that the
misunderstanding had net originated on their parr,
by any other means than by a strift adherence to
the duty they owed to she country and to their
Sovereign; and from an anxious desire to assuage
any rebellions spirit in Ireland, by the most prudent
means. We immediately took measures to assimilate
it to the Irish Aft, in order, as far as possible, to
conform to the wish of His Majesty; but. on a full
examination of the terms its which this Aft was con-
ceived, in regard to excluding rtstriftions, and intro-
ducing previsions in regard to the Navy, we were
s..nn satisfied that it was impossible for us to core
t. such a Bill, or to introduce it in such manner as
to relieve it from the objeffions started, or to leave
it seas as it would be cunsisteint with the wisdom
of the Gown, or consosaat with the public safety,

to Wing forward at the present crisis of egaits.
The onlj thing we could de, was to pores., in &-
(entree to His Majesty, to athandon the measure al-
togelliet, is it wed ififtpbenVe to red oce it into ley
eth. illePe. I am aware. Sir. that in doing this,
I *as making a great sacrifice of my own feelings,
to what I conceived to be my public duty ; but
when the circumstances are fully understood, it is
oast which I do not scruple to say, that I would not
hesitate to make again. But, Sir, at the time we
made this concession, there was a desire expreiled
by His Majesty, that we rhould pledge ourselves
that nothing of a similar natere should be in future
introduced into the House. We could not consent
to this regeistlien, as we found it would be neces-
sary to reserve to ourselves a power, not only of
explaining our conduel and opinions with respe.) to
the Bill itself, but to A& with consistency in. cur
support to any other measure relative thereto. that
might afterwards be introduced into Paeliament,
and submitted for His Majesty's decision. We ac-
companies] this our representation. with an assur-
ance couched in the most delicate expressions, that
Aegis Majesty's Ministers wesemost anxious to do
every thins that could be conducive to the prospet its
of his empire. It has been stated, however, in that
partial publication to which I have alluded, that
we stated that we were to persist in that measure ;
and that we thought it indispensable not to make
that reservation required; and that our anxiety to
please His Majesty might not he understood as re-
straining us from submitting, from time to time,
such measures as circumstances might require, as
to the state of Ireland, I.et us site in what situa-
tion we should have been, had the Bill been with-
drawn without such a pledge being crafted. Mere
would then have existed no necessity for His Me-
jestr's Ministers to have stated to the pubic the
difficulties which had occured, or the ethietetor,
which had been started. There would has tties.
sufficient public grounds for ofterweres
drawing it, on account of the opposman at •
have met with in the House ; but having o e
introduced it, it would have been highly oil-
proper to have withdrawn thus, withou staine
all those circumstances in vindication to our con•
duel. We may also look to these circuelseincei
odder which the Catholic measure had teen voted,
when further concessions had been sought ; and we
may look to the impi enlist) which that unfortunate
event might make upon the Catholics is Itelard.
We may also look to the opinions of these
sated their sentiments, before the Koitinns were
presented ; and feeling the necessity a pursuing
a simile' and consistent conduct. would it, I would
ask, have been either fair or hot ottrabie in as. not
to have apprised His Majesty ef that hue w:ach
our public duty rendered necessary for its to put,
see? Our duty was clear and cotiststo t, and at
once respe.liful and Leueurable towards ! his Ma-
jesty. Supposing that we had given such a
pledge, and that a similar discussion was again: to
take plate, upon a Petttion from the Catholics
being presented to the House, how could we have
avoided stating our ()pit ion in favour of the mea-
sure ? After having acted thus. and holding such
opinions, I would ask those who accuse is
of rifting insuitiegly, and fencing, at the setae
time, a measure upon His Majesty, what
other course we could with consistency have adnr-
ed ? Our reasons felt declining to accede to those
teams proposed, were respeelfully stated to His elo-
jesty, and that we could dot admit of such a pledge,
without a complete dereliaion of our duty. Suer.
were the reasons stated to His Majesty ; who cer-
tainly expressed satisfaaion at our deference to his
opinion ; but he still required us not only to is ito-
draw the measure, but to accompany it with a letter,
or assurance in writing, that we never would again
propose or countenance any thing similar to it—
(Wear ! hear ! hear!) 1 have, Sir, no complaint
to make upon this occasion ; I am sure that the
motives and opinions which dictated that plan no
the part of His Majesty, were those of the purest
nature. Having had opportunities en iugh o:
marking His Majesty's benevolent intentions to.
wards his people, his disposition to pri pose every
thing that can conduce to their welt ..+e end happi-
ness, I have nothing to say in regard to his coandult •
upon this occasion ; but tar dill teat is the case its
regard to those conneeted with him, and who have
taken upon themselves to advise—( Lod and reiter-
ated burst, approbation ; toter ! bar! Ara. !) As
far as His Majesty is pet sonally concerned, he stands,
in my apprehension and opinion, lully acquitted. as
having aged from the most honourable feelings and
motives of duty to the nation. I stated to his
Majesty the impossibility of our compliance with
such a requisition; and the consequence was, that
that communication, on my part, was soon after-
wards accompanied with an intimation on his, that
it was necessary for him to look out fur other Mi-
nisters, and accordingly receiver his commands to
deliver up the Seals. Such. Sir, is the history of
the whole trausailion ; I have not referred to pa-
, peis to suy port me he the statemeat I have made;
but lam extremely anxious that all the pipers con-
netted with the subjen should meet the public eye
and it I lit Majesty would be graciously pleased to
authorise his new Servants to gave every information
to the. House, I. for one, shall- be perfettly satisfied.
I trust that the statement I have made will th.n
be fund to be cornett in all its points, and that the
House will be convinced of the three foilowicg bets:
lit, That it was not without sufficient reasons
and motives that we proposed this measure. origi-
nally, to His Majesty ; 2(4, That whatever mis-
understanding may have unfortunately arisen, we
did not persist in doing so, without having reason
to believe we were possessed of his sanetion ; eJly.
That when that misunderstanding was discovered, we
did every thing see could do, to make concessions
in the most respeetful mariner; from au anxious with
to ad with consistency, when called upon by Parlia-
ment and the country, to explain our condutt ;
and, at the same time, to consult Ills Majesty's
ease and comfort ; And, lastly, that our con-
duet would have been highly blameable, had
we failed in stating as we have duke. These.
Sir, are the conclusions which I hope and trust
will be drawn by this House, from a full investiga-
tion, and mature deliberation of the matter I have
thus taken upon me, perhaps too personally, and too
imperfectly stated. I shall now conclude by observ-
ing, that I am willing, and fully prepared, to give
such farther explanation as may yet be requitet; and
by throwing myself upon the candour of Use House,

I feel no divposition to complain ; sure as I am that I
there can be but one feeling, but on! opinion, as to'
the Motives which have itloaitel His Mniesu 4,,,n
this critical cotijuneture of affairs. So far from
being one who could join any party iq a measure
likely to excite dissension amongst His Majesty's
loyal subjeas, there is no man who could be more
desirous in his heart to prevent animosity or
any dispcsition to revolt. Such. I can venture
to add, are His Majesty's own tenameists regard
ing me. I have had repeated marks cif His Hopi
approbation, and it is, I feel, an inward comfort and
consolation to me, in now quitting office, to re-
fwa, that in no one instance, unless this be an excep-
tion, has my service to I his Majesty and my Coun-
try, however deficient I may have been in point of
abilities, been otherwise than faithfully to peform
my duty to the utmost of my power; and that I have,
in various instances, received the highest marks of
approbation. I have, in the outset, stated, that it
should be my endeavour to abstain from. all topics
that would be likelyto create any argument t'ision the
subjetff, and I. trust I have adhered to this int, atinn,
and that I have shewn, in my own tiehall, ar.ci that
of my Colleagues, that a similar upright and manly
4-indult is essentially necessary to be observed by all
Ministers, as a contrary one would be not only
highly unconstitution il, but highly criminal, were
Ministers to accept of power, and at the same
time subjeCt themselves to any such restraint.—
(Hear! hear! later ! 4w !)--.-Ii was clearly a sti-
pulation which I could not enter into conestently
wth my duty to myself, soy Country, or my So-
vereign lam anxious, that, it cut of this matter a
'notice) c uld he made, that. it should not be done
het .. re pre,ence of those who are concerned in
II:e ire:: Administration. I was, at one time, in-
tending to propose, as an amen intent to the
st...ti rn now made for Adjournmeer, that, in-
:es.' i.! Wednesday se'nnight, the House should
:lie, t .o Monday se'nnight, in order to expedite this
in uortant investigation ; but the difference is so tri-
vial, that I shall not object to the motion, providing
.rlisre means he proposed, in order to hying it under
discuses .111 as early u possible. after we have restuns-
ed our sittings "
At the conclusion of Lord How;ek's speech, such
a number of Members left the Moto., as wet? as of
strang. ra from the gallery, that amidst the noise and
interruption which prevaled, for some time. it was
impossible to collet, with any distirieness, what im-
mediately followed.
Mr. Ill:SKISSON, as far as we could collet),
was stating to the House, that as neither lie, nor any
other Member present, as tar as he knew, had seen
any official documents on the subjeCt on which the
Noble Lord had so amply dilated, it was impossible
lii, hirri to enter upon any argument on the aubjetl;
he should, therefore, wish, for the present, at least,
to wave all Hither disrossion on the principal to.
pits of the Nchle Lord's speech. But although he
had not seen the Cabinet Miriu:e referred to, yet
undoubtedly the substance of what purported to
be that Minute, had got into the bands of other
person', and had thus Indira:By beta conveyed to
the public.
Mr. FULLER also s rid a few words, amidst
min* rouse. that prevailed for Some time. He °b-
urred, that the Noble Lord had made a distinaion
between measures brought forward by him and
others, as individual Members of Parliament, and
then brought forward by them as Members of the
Cabinet. He thrat'2ht this Ine of distinaion ought
to be clearly defined and ascertained, for the satis-
fation of Members. Ile wished to know of the
No'rle Lord, whethet the seals of effice were taken
from Lim on Tuesday morning last ?
Lord HOW ICK replied, that he had received, on
Tuesday mon ing last, His Majesty's commands, to
deliver up the seals of office, and which he had :IC-
linaSty done yesterday morning.
The Hon. Mr. BRAND gave notice, that on that
d.y.• I. rtnight he should bring forward a motion,
1 sets . gto ascertain the opinion of that House, of
onet of the late Administration ; and also as
1, ire grounds on which His Majesty had hero
:Weise.' to dismiss his late Ministers horn his ser-
vice.

Central LOF lUS, alluding to the relief granted
to the Roman Catholics of Ireland, by the Parlia-
ment of that country, in 1793, said, he thought the
Noble Lord (Howick) had given a mistaken re-
preseutatiou as to any pledge given to that body by
the hish Parliament, as to any ulterior measures,
tendiog to what was vulgarly bur erroneously called
tath,lic Emancipation, by the Imperial Parliament,
or as extending to the services or the Irish Catho. '
lies in this country. (.lac efit such Noise, qvii •'‘ for
tome tine de•riungd 14e lireurrake 4i:coerces voice, he
proceeded). He should be sorry that the Hoo;41
should break tip for she Adjournment without his
bviag permitted to say a word or two upon the
sti!jetl; he thought it material that Gentlemen
should not go sway under any such imptession rest-
ing on their minds. He lamented that the sobjeft
of the Roman Catholic clams should angalis his
become suds a prominent feature of discussion, for
nothing was more c ilculated to inflame the poblic
mind, and particularly the lower orders of the
Irish Roman Catholics, than by inculcating the
ides of grievances sustained by them. Ni thing
was wanted to insure the happiness cf !Wand, but
good order and industry ; the great ma,s of the
people in that Sister Island vivre in the same
situation as the rich man's tenants were in this
country. The idea of Emancipation, as it ma:
wrongfully called, never entered into the common
peopfa's minds, for they must know, that they were
already possessed of civil and religious freedom ;
they enjoyed undisturbed liberty of conscience to
worship God, in their own way, they could pos-
sess fieeholds, they bad the privilege of the eleflive
franchise (only not to sit in Parliament without
taking the oaths), they could sit as Jurymen in the
Courts of Law, and enjoyed other privileges, in
common with His Majesty's Protestant subjeftr.
He should he truly sorry, therefore, if, after what
they had 'o lately heard, any Gentleman should go
away with the erroneous and inflamed idea, that
the Roman Catholics of Ireland were in a state of
Slavery !

The question of adj.monment, to Wednesday,
the Bth of April next, war then put and can ied.
Mr. HUSIWtiON then moved for the following
wow writs :

Fto the County of NueltiotrAam, in the room of the Ri;lit
Hon. the Margot. of TA.1.L014, appointed ore of 1.4 Lord. et
the Troistuy.

rot nri-ett", %II the reams if {1.4, 162
11.,41 Charles OM of the PAyombtot.
Mal-.=‘7i
Fo 14,,,mrh teeralnon, m th, reohs or theft.
lion 4abte L. rd Lovoisie, appointed owe m the m
i.ioners for the Couteml.
For the (7. ttttt ty of h.dii.buigit, in the room of 11,e p•
lloitontsisle R.Mert lfuuAa., sopoitred Post Comehromm,
the Airalf of
F.o the Iturough of lkfonesor.th, in the room of
Charles Somerset, appiriot,l ipso M the Joint-Pape:44Ln
Majt,iti% Forces.
The Committee on lise War wat, nikvt
tf,e Motion of Lord 11. Pt. ITY, postponed to
I'Vedooqday cennight.
The Report on the Sierra Leone BiR was rend..
ed, a.. 4 ntdered to lie lead a third tittle on We.rc,,
day se'nnight.
Leave was given to bring in a Bill, fonndee
the Resolutions of yesterday, in the Contit'lr-,.•
Ways and Means, for ra:t.ng a Supply to
testy for Ireland.
l'he Fuller's Soap exportation Bl], was tta.;
third time, and parsed.
Adjourned to Wednesday se'nnight.
•

PltEs

LONDON,
FRIDAY, MAncu Q.

Lord Goitryti.ic and Viscount Howacc,
night, severally gave their promi.el emplane:oi
in the Ifonsesot Lords and Commons.
had a very flit attendance. We never saw so grin
a cruwd of strangers 41 the House cf Lo ds, belce
tht bar. The following is the substance of the ar-
ticle in one of the Newspapers, so often alluded to
by Lord GitertVlLLE and Viscount Huwica:
's That Ministers trusted His Majesty would to the ieln
pensahle , nee:ssity of their exiwessing, oa witc.d-aeise 04
all, the strong per.uanoti they fait of the benefits which
rough from a different course of polity to the Catholics
land; and they further stated, that it MU 11141111e.telia
their characters, that they should openly avers these ns.
immits, out tray on the present ocea.ion, but in the erect
the Catholic Petition coming forward , and they further tr.
slued, that their present deferent," to His blajesty nigk unt
►e understood as restrainine them horn submitting, from Cm,
to time, such measures as ei•cumstances might re.;utrenne:4
Ina the state of Ireland."

Both Houses of Parliament adjourned, last
night, will Wednesday se'nnight. As this is a
shorter period than that which the New Ministers
originally p sorcsed, and, as such, a cencessior,
it %‘ a, not objeaed to by the Opposit ion.

I a.t night we received Frenc't Papers to ine
13th, and Dutch to the 22J, but they contain ze
news of any interest.

Yesterday, at two o'clock. His MAJISTV held
a private Loree, at the Quark's Palace, which was
attended by—
The Dulvt of Port and: Earls A.,1e40.4, Camden, Chi.
chest.,, &HA R.ith•irit ; Viscount Castlereagh 1.0 As Antra,
Hnwitesburr, Eldon, ticatlifield, C. S nsterset, Muig-ava, and
Lntaina; Sir S Cumuli ; hicon.s. retcownis F•mkeu r, Cam
nine, R. II Sanders, Long, and Vetory.
The following had the honour of being presert.d
to His MAJESTY, upcn their several appoints:le:44
and kissed hands :

F.4fi Camdelit upon I being &eared PresiJent o;* t`le

Lord Mulgraee, upon his being appointed First 1.0;i of tbe
Irlmiralty,
Lord Charles Senseiset, upon hi. being appointed Joint Pay
ina-ter of th. Forces

Earl Chienesnr, upon hi. ben4 appointeil one of
unAst fi GCIIICfaI.

Earl RAlliurst, upon hit being appoint 4 Master of the
Mint and Pvewdes.t of the 13,ard
Mr. Robert DUIIII4S Sand-7a, upon lib being appoiatiti
,ident of the Board of Control

Mr. Long, up.,u hia beets aipc..tder.l Joint ramater or
Forces

Lad L,vaine, upon his being appointed M .mber of t I:-
die Mond

. Pace 41, uvrt his bring app...ate I Chancel:or of t r
Excliotiurr.
Alter the Levee, His MI.IESTY held a Privy
Council, at which Mr. Primeval. was introduced,
and sworn in a Member, and took his seat at the
Hon. Board accordingly ; and, at the same time.
was sworn into his Office, and took the oath of a
Privy Counsellor.
Mr. ROBERT DUNDAS SAKDERS WAS likewhe in-
troduced. and sworn in a Member, and tn-L his scat
at the Hon. Board accordingly, after taking the
usual oath.

His MAJCITY gave audiences to Earl CAmorN,
the Duke of Porcri.%:.o, Lord fliwiAsnuar, and
Mr. PILIter.VAL• _

About five o'clock His LiAttsty set off la
Windsor. _ -

Ihe Prier-erg Erzileh packet, from Lisbon, is
rived at Falmouth. She sailed on the 13th inst.
I'he letters will be delivered to-morrow. The Wei.
sinAans packet sailed from Lisbon on the 4th ins:.
hut, on seem t of the c•.rtrary winds which Capt.
Kinn experienced, he di:cs not conceive her missir;;;
rhe Tinansheord, AdreAl,nd, and the Prim.), rl
packets, from Falmouth, had arrived at Liibc'
The Nam sloop of war. sailed from Lisbon, ot. t:
10:h inst. for Oporto; supposed to convoy t:•?
Trade from thence for England. A brig 01 was.
with two brigs, a Bark, and some other vessels (sill-.
posed to he the I)ltpalch sloop of war, with her cotl-
ray, which sailed from Falmouth on the 6th), were
standing irsto the Tagus, on the 13th, the day the
packet sailed.

PRICE OF STOCKS, YESTERDAY.
:1 per Cent. Consols
5 par Cent. Navy Sill
Onnouni
Exchequer Rills par :!...I w.
&irks!' Lottery Tickets
IristrOmniuns 3"1
COllllOll tow ..

LONUON :—.printed by DAVIDSON. Nu. 17, Duk44
Court, hue street, Cor.tt.Gaoken, and poblisbt.rl .t tt.
ttffite, No. 15, lt..ck of Ut.eltotteoeb Cht::,:ti, Straw', by
W. STUCK, of No 7, hew lAt'.!ut: Low( tVg..
Oidert, de_ fur this Parts, :but (1.0 t i
viii Ye defy attooderf to.

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