The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1824-03-17 00:00:00

and the offence for which it was inflicted. With respect to the moral
condition of the slave, it was necessary in tolerating& punishment,
to look to the party in that light who became its object. In
the House, very recently, an Ibmourable Gentletnan in the army
declared that without punishment discipline would not be maintained.
And if not, how wits the conditiori of a people like the West India
slaves more elevated, and more aueseptible of moral infiumiCe, than
the soldiers of a civilised country 1 (liras.) In his mind this
argument was quite unanswerable, and it would be much more Tea.
amiable to abolish flogging in this country, than utterly so discard
it in the West Indies. lie thought that the opening of this ques-
tion by the Right Honourable Gentleman was deficient—it wanted
decision—it wanted political courage—it was full of uncertainty.
He agreed, however, in the experiment proposed upon Trinidad,
with the exception of the fringe and lawn sleeves; it wit,
in his mind, perfectly good. and might be tried with safety •
but why not apply the system to the other colonies :-1
If he was a Jamaica man he should have acted just in the planters
there had done. They were dealing with a government who had
no will of their own. He should thercTore have said at once "We
areitn independent legislation—we discard all interference—if you
choose to exercise force we mast submit to it, but we will not wil-
lingly submit. Let us know the extent of your requisition, and
then shall •we reply." But there were in the House some UM
Members not satisfied even with the extent to which this Govern-
ment meant to proceed ; of such a class was his Hon. Friend who
had spoke second in the debate. (Mr. Buxton) lie however, would
not condescend to tell how tar he meant to go, what was his plan,
or what system lie proposed. All that lie (Mr. Baring) wished
was, to see the plan recommended by the Right Ilonourab'e Gen-
tleman carried into etrect in our own colonies and recommended to
others. Ile was quite sure such a course, if temperately recoil]. I
mended, would be adopted by the other islands. This question I
ought now at length to b.] set at rest ; it was admitted that every
time it was agitated the property of th %Vest Indians was thrown j
into complete uncertainty. Now he was desirous that this subject
should be so settled that every man, whether black or white, should
be enabled at once, and for all, to read his Constitution. It was
remarkable that America should not have practised first upon her
own slaves that lesson which she was so anxious to teach us. He
had been accused frequently of too friendly a feeling tor America,
but he hesitated not to say that her advice was not disinterested.
She well knew that the freedom 6f the Shiers must throw the colo-
nies into her handt and that her best advantage was, in pre-
saihng
upon England to adopt this policy. Ile was surprised,
too, to hear the admission of the Hight Honourable Gentleman
that AMCTICS was the second maritime country in the world. There
was one point mnre,the
petitions had usually on this question con.
tabled an Intimation et the willingness of those who signed them
to participate in any expense that might arise to the plonter from
the lost of his pmperty. lie was strongly disposed to believe, how.
ever, that their sentiments on this nubject would yield before
salt tax, or any tax which Government might feel disposed to ,
impose, in order to cover the loss of IM millions to the West
India proprietors.
Mr. Secretary PEEL remarked, that the charge against the
Government with which the Honourable Member had commenced i
his speech, might have been severely felt, had not the rest of his
speech been an eulogium upon the conduct of the Government.
lii admitted that a state of slavery, and particularly that slavery I
,which existed in the West Indies, was intolerable ; he admitted
that the feeling of the rnuntro was most hostile to slavery, and that,
order these circumstances, something intelligible must be adopted
by the Government on this momentous question. Now there
were, as it seemed to him, only the course to pursue which j
Government had adopted. and of which the very speech of
the lion. Member MRS the wannest eulogy—namely, to make
an ezreriment in legislation in those colonies, in which the au-
thorny of the Croon to legisinte was beyond all question.!
From the admission of the Hight Hon. Gentleman himself. he
was warranted in saying, that the course pursued by Government
was the only course that discretion or prudence could adopt. The
lion. Member time liramlxr (Mr. Wilberforce), was an advocate
for despatch in legislation, and he professed the most sovereign
contempt time solonial legislation ; but how were they, if such laws
Were as that lion. Aleteiber had desired, enacted here, how was
it possible that they could not be enforced. The course mom-
Mendell by his Right Hon. Friend with so much eloquence, with
so much ability, and with such moderation, was the only course that
a wise Government could pursue. lie was convinced that wisenother
island, saw the consequences of the beneficial regulations which it
was the object of government to introduce there, where their powers
to legislate where unquestioned, other colonies would see the advan-
tage, and anxious'', adopt the improsement. He had now shortly
satisfies the lit u.e, that even front his own argument, the spree
of the Honorable Member for Taunton (Mr. Baring) was the best
possible tulogtum upon the course adopted by his Majesty'a

Dr, LI 'S II I X 0 TON observed, that upon this subject he had very
trifling hopes of any cordial co-operation from colonial legislatipo.
It had been stated that the proceedings of the House were eaten-
laird to produce mischief, and promote insurrections in the 'West
,Indies; but he (Dr. bushington) was of a different opinion, and
he believed the speech of the lion. Member for Taunton, of last
year, as well as of this, was calculated to cause more insurrections
in the It Indies than that of the most determined speaker on
the other side. He (Dr. Luehington) thought that the whole
system must stand condemned. and did stand condemned by every
Slember who was disinterested en the subject. Ile was aware that
there were so many difficulties in the way of total amelioration,
that the attempt must fail ; but the Legislature of this coun'ey were
not, therefore, to remain idle spectators of the misery and degrada-
tion of the West India population. There were two dangers which
were to be contended with—procrastination on the one hand and
precipitation on the other. But it would be injurious to the cha-
recta of the nation, affect the honour of the House, be acting un-
just towards 700,000 human beings, and be a stain on the character
of the Right lion. Gentleman himself, if he abandoned the senti-
manta which had received the unanimous approbation of She Heuer
during the last Session of Parliament. He (Dr. Lushingtoo) was
convinced the present plan would be of the utmost benefit to the
West India Proprietors themselves, and that, if they consulted
their own interests, they would go hand in hand with his Majesty's
Ministers in endeavouring to produce that complete reform in the
West Indies which would do so much towards fitting the slaves for
better purposes than those to which they were now destined. He
(Ih. Lushington) wished that the colonial proprietors abroad would
not inflame the minds of the slaves, by depriving them of all hope
of happiness or comfort. Could he be told that such a speech as
that of the Foreign Secretary was calculated to do this ? There was
one part of the observations of the Right Ilon. Gentleman to which
he would allude—it related to the church establishment in the West
Indies. He hoped that those connected with it would remember
they had been chosen for the benefit of the black population, and
not to league with the white against them. He did nat underitand
that missionaries were to be rejected, nor could they be so, because
it would be the height of injustice and impOlicy so to do; it was
those who had borne the brunt of the day, and lived with hilman
fiends in the lowest state of degradation. To those, therefore, the
praise was due for the light which dwelt, if tiny did dwell, among
the black population of the %Vest India Islands. Ile eared not whe-
ther they were Baptists, or Wesleyan', or Calvinists, or Presby-
terians, or whatsoever denomination they were of; it was
'sufficient to hint that they were Christians. and nobly they
had performed their duty. A time would come when the House
would be called upon to inquire whether the charge. against them
were true or were not ; he would not therefore anticipate the ques-
tion. Ile hoped the Right lion. Gentleman, when he came to make
his reply, would hold out some hope to the other West India Islands
similar to that which he had given to Trinidad.
Mr. W. TAYLOR observed on the great difficulties which the
West India proprietors had to contend with, in consequence of the
extent of their lands and the numbers of their slaves; and stated,
that he himself had expended on the aged and the young, in ad-
ministering as much as possible to their east and comfort the sum
of 140,110 M. sterling during the last eight years. He thought there
ought to be an indemnity made to those West India proprietors'.
who might suffer by any alteration ; and particularly to those who
reside in the islands. lie was convinced there was a liberality of
sentiment among them which would make them satisfied with the
proceedings which the House might think fit to adopt; and that
there would be a feeling in their favour when they saw how fairly
his Majesty's Ministers were acting.
Mr. :MANNINO called the attention of the House to the evi-
denee which had been given before a Committee, by Sit E. Wil-
liams It stated that the slaves, during the intervals between their
labours, enjoyed themselves in singing, dancing, and other 'muse-
merits. Ile (Mr. Manning) had in his head a letter concerning an
Act which was passed at Grenada in December MM. It informed
him that a privilege bad been extended to the blacks of voting for
representatives. He (Mr. Manning) was not one of those who
wished to postpone, to an indefinite period, the extension of ad-
vantages to the 'West I ilia Islands; but he still thought that the
time tor so doing was not yet come, and would not come for years.
He would ask, had there been shown any proofs of the existence
of a productive industry ? In St. Domingo, which island had
been free for twenty years, smuggling to •great extent takes place-_i
and of what article? Sugar. It was known that this island did
not export annually more than ill hogsheads of sugar ; and that
in many instances coffee had been given in exchange for sugar. As
the owner of an estate in Trinidad, when the proposed improve-
ments were to take place he would give his cordial assistance to his
Majesty's Ministers; but he hoped, if mischief did ensue, that
his Majesty's Ministers would come forward manfully, and give II
satisfaction to those who ha: received injury in consequence.
Mr. EV.I NS said, that the most lamentable effects to the West
India Islands arose from the West India proprietors denying that
the Government had any authority over them. lie was convinced
that the black population were in a state of moral degradatiqn far
worse than any bodily evils. Ile deeply regretted that the mea-
sures prosed by the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Secretary for
Foreign Affairs, had not had a wider extent.
Mr. BLAIR agreed with Mr. Baring in the views which he
had submitted. He hoped that government would state the ex-
tent to which they intended to carry their proposed measures.
Sir ROSE was of opinion that whatever substantial and per
amelioration took place in the condition of the Slam should
be communicated through religious instruction, rather than from
political regulations. The Honourable Member referred to the re-
port of the :Missionaries, with a view of 'hewing the extent of
improvement which in various districts had been effected through
their exertions. When he said that the extinction of slavery was
to be effected only by Christianity, the solution of that principle
was, that, the gradual amelioration of the Slaves was alone to
be wrought by the effect of the precepts of religion on their
minds, which must therefore take only progressive means.
Mr. W. SMITH was adverse to slavery, not on the statements
of cruelty which had been brought forward, but on the principle of
the effect which the state of slavery was apt to produce on the
moral habits and condition of the people. In illustration of this
principle he would mention the case- of this country ; for instance,
in the case of Thurtell, whose fate was the just and general indig-
nation of the country. Such was the effect of this system of
slavery, that it excited a compassion for the criminal instead of a
desire to visit him with the penalty due to his guilt. The traffic of
slaves excited the indignation of lion. Gentlemen, as practise) and

:carried on by Algiers. But he would ask, hail not Algiers as
I much right to catch &Spaniard as we had te catch a negrn ? ( Hear.)
I As to :he exertions of slaves to obtain freedom it was highly credi-
I table to them, for such freedom was the natural and unalienable
birth-right of every man. Those permits certainly should be cont.
I!imitated for whatever prnpetv they might sustain the toss of, a*
leiv had the unction of the Li-gala:tire for investing it ; but this ,
dicfnot in any degree diminish the right of the slaves, or lessen in
their minds a desire to make every exertion for their emanOpation. I
To the present measures he was ready to give every support. but
thought they were of little avail if they did not Iced ultimately to
complete and entire emanciestion.
Sir R. WILSON sighed to know whether the proposed
talons were to be extended to the Cape of Good Hope, and to t:te
Isle of Mauritius. lie begg.ill leave next to refer to the 13th sec-
dim of the proposed Dill, which enacted that more than twenty-
five lashes should not he toffee' on a dare for an offeoce, at any
one time. He wished to know what construction the Right Don. 1
Gentleman meant to put upon that clause ? fur as it at prearat
stood it empowered a °ulster to repeat the punishment for the same
offence provided be inflicted it at different tinier.
Mr. WILSON deprecated the repeated discussion of this gees-
don. than which nothing could be more injurious to the slave po-
pulation.
The publication of the speeches of the lion. Members
for Bramber and Weymouth had produced the very worst effects
abroad ; they were in truth • pest, and only. calculated to create
discontent among the slaves, and excite a spirit of alarm amongst !
I.the planters. Fur his part, he was convinced of the necessity of
slaves in our sugar plantations, especially as only halt the labour I
could be produced from the emancipated slaves as from the slaves,
and that without overworking them. At all events, he deprecated
I any precipitate interference or sudden measure of legislation ow GO
I important a question.
3lr. CANNING rose to reply. It was not his intention to have
again trespassed on the House, after having so long occupied their '
attention, were it not Coat he hail been appealed to by several
I Hon. Members en points of information. To the first question
I proposed by his lion. Friend. Sir It Wilson (if he might so call
him), as to the inteation of government to extend the proposed
measures to certain colonies in the East Indies, he begged to say
that an intimation had been made to these colonies of the dispo- I
sition and feelings entertained by the Government at home, but he
was not enabled at present to lay before the House the result of any
communication with these colonies (hear, bear). As to the second
question relative 'tithe infliction of punishment his (31r.C.'s) intend- I
ed construction certainly was that the punishment of twenty-live
dashes should be only indieted once tor the same °Hence, and he
thought that this was ,the sense conveyed by the words " at any
! one nine" (hear, hear). In reedy to the mon Important question
which had been asked by the Hon. Member (Mr. Baring) iss to
the construction which was to put upon the proposed regulations as
'to the extent of their operation, he (Mr. Canning) wished
I that they might be considered rather 35 an exmnple than
an experiment. fle wished that however confined might be
the immediate application of these measures, they would be
gennally followed and adopted by the other colonies. 'fo those
. places which possessed colonial legislatures, the adoption of those
measures should be strongly esmniniended, but he hoped that
1 those Legislatures would adopt them from a sense of their utility,
and that no occasion would arise, in which the question of the right
of this Legislature to control their opinions, should of necessity,
be entertained. (Hear, hear.) He could not conelede without al-
-1 veiling to the sentiments which hal fallen from the Hon. Member
for Taunton (31r. Baring), who, sitting on the other tide of the
I House, made a speech which might be considered in fat ourof either
aide. (A laugh.) The Hon. Member, whose mind did not appear
to have been made tip to any distinct or definite line of conduct,
! had thought proper to censure Ministers for coining down, Session
Lefler Session, with unsatisfactory statements and indecisive tnea-
i sures. What did the Hon. 3leniber mean by Session after Session ?
has: Session was the first in which Government took the question at
all into hands--• question which seemed to the hone utable Gen-
tlernan easy of solution, and surrounded by no difficulties : and
nine months after they had taken it into hands, Minister s proposed
the present measures. Yet these measures, however they might
be unsatisfactory to others, were perfectly blameless in the eyes of
the Honourable Member. Nay, more; be hall even gone so far
as to say that they were the very measures best calculated to lead
to the accomplishment of all that was hoped fur on the suhject.
(Hear). This was the sentiment of the Honourable Member in one
part of his speech, and in another he took the chair of • lecturer, to
censure Government for the very conduct which he had before
praised. (Hear.) The speech of the Hun. Gent. reminded him
of those debatrts alluded to by Mr. Burke, who, by balancing
between both sides of the House—by inserting here a bit of admira-
tion, and there a bit of censure—now a bit of applause, again a bit
re invective—wove together a piece of beautifully-confuse) and
strangely-contrasted composition. (A laugh, and cries of " Hear,
hear.") By this tempting mode of dealing, the Honourable
Member was sure to be rapturously received by the side of the
House on which he was supposed to speak. We trembled as
it were between both' extremes. Between those extremes there
was a middle point ; and that point was the post of media-
tion
which the government now occupied. One set of men
said to the Government, " Do away with every restriction ;" an.
other said, "Do nothing, leave matters as they are." Now, Go-
vernment had steered a middle course, and resolved to do some-
thing without implicit obedience to the advocates of opposite ex-
tremes. The Hon. Member had praised Ministers for what they
had done, and censured them for what they li el not deem ; he (Mr.
C.) preferred his practical panegyric to his theoretic blame. He had
thought proper, in the couise of his observations, to give to govern-
mere the most vulgar advice. " Meet the question fairly'," said I
the Hon. Gentleman. This admonition was held out to them on
may the commonest subject that come before them. Now this was
a question, of all others, that could not, in the words of the Hon.
Gentleman himself, be met fairly, It was so surrounded by dif-
fieulties—it concerned interests so varied and extensive, that it re-
gutted the most temperate and deliberate judgment at all to touch
it safely. Hatt. Gentlemen who had 'large interests in the West
Indies sought to extort from him a pledee that he would go no
further in legislation on this subject than the present Bill. ' I
will give," said the Honourable Gentleman, •no such pledge.
My -duty, and the guide of my conduct, shall be now and
in future, to look to practical benefit—my horror is In abstract
declarations. Such measure* as justice, moderation, and equity
prompt me to recommend, I *hail not fail to attend to. I shall do
nothing hastily ; but I will not be bound by any pledge or profes-
sion which it may be shameful to retract, or in which it may be
dangerous to go forward. (Cheers.) If ever an occasion arose in
which Government should proceed with atution, with hesitating
and tardy steps, it is the present • when it was sought to correct
and remedy a great evil coeval almost with the randition of man-
kind ; and when the object aimed at was no less that that of recast-
ing, as it were, a whole existing generation. (Loud cheers.) Tort
Much timidity could not accompany us ; in such a north we should
proceed with a due observance of • all the signs of the times,' if
we hope fur a permanently beneficial result to the measures of ame-
lioration we propose. On the gruund we now stand we are, I think,
secure. In that position, which, in my opinion, we have taken up
with wisdom, let us continue ; and which it' we had not taken up
and adhered to, the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Baring) might truly say
we had acted *ith rashness." (Much cheering.)
Mr. BARING explained.
Leave was then granted to bring in the Bill.
The other Orden of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at a QL'aaTEw BEFORE Two o'Croce.

NOTICE OF MOTION (THIS DAY).
Mr. Mabesly—Land Tax Redemption Alta.
ORDERS OF THE DAY.
rootage Rates Rin—Report.
Ways and Means—Committee.

MINORITIES:

AGAINST !LOGGING IN THE anttr—sranca 16.
Allen, J. H. Lamb, Hoe. G. Robyn, G. J.
A.lthorp, Vise. Lloyd, S. Jones Robinson, Sir 0.
Baring, Alex. Lennard, T. B. Smith, John
Barrett, S. M. Lushington, S. Smith, Robert
Bennet, Hon. H. 0. Leader, W. Stanley, Lord
Birch, JOS. Maberly, J. Sykes, D.
' Brydges, Sir J. Alsberly, W. L. Tierney, Rt. Hon. G.
Bond, John Martin, J. Wane, J. A.
Colborne, N. W. R. itionek, J. B. Western, C. C.
Denison, W. J. Newport, Sir John Williams, W.
Duneannon, Vise. Nitgent, Lord Wood, M.
Ferguson, Sir R. C. Phillips O. ren. Wrottesley, Sir J.
tinalfell, Pascoe Phillips, 0. H. jab. TELLERS.
Gurney, lludson parmll, Sir H.
Hutchinson, Hn.C.H. Rice, T. S. Hume, Joseph
James, W. Ridley, Sir Al. W. Hobhouse, J. C.
Kennedy, T. F. Roberts, A. W.

ron POSTPONING THE GRANT TOE THE CH RRRRRR D
SCHOOLS or IRELAND ENTIL THE REPORT or • COW-
MITTEE..-MMICH 15.
Althorp, Viscount James, W. Roberta, A. W-
ilma), R. Kennedy, J. F. Robins, G.
Bennet, Hon. U.U. Leader. W. Robinson, Sir G.
Barrett, S. Si. Lamb, lion. 0. Rickfonl, W.
Duncannon, Via. Leonard, T. B. Stanley, Lord
Davies, T. H. hlacdonald, Jas. Tierney, Rt. Hon. G.
Denison, W. J. hlonck, .1. B. Tremayne, J. H.
Ferguson, Sir R. C. Martin, J. Western. C. C.
Grosvenor, lien. Newport, Rt. Hon. Whitbread, S. C.
Guise, Sir W. Sir J. Williams, W.
Gordon, R. Parnell, Sir 11. Wrottesley, Sir J.
Ilutchinson,Hn.C.ll. Phillips, G. TELLER.
Hume Jos. Ridley, Sir M. W. Rice, T. S.
llobbiiiree, J. C.

ON MR. NARERLY'S MOTION FOR TRANSFERRING THE
TAX FROM DEER TO MALT-MARCII lA.
Anson, Hop. (I. Leader, W. Syke., I).
Bright, H. Lennart, T. B. Smith, W.
Butterworth, J. Moberly, W. L. Smith, J.
Bennet, Hun. 11. O. Martin, J. Tierney, Rt. Hon. 0.
Bernal, R. Mackintosh, Sir J. Williams, W.
Barrett, S. M. Nugent, Lord Whitbread, S. C.
Denison, J. Newport, Sir J. Wood, M.
Ferguson, Sir R. C. Hobart., (l. TELLERS.
Hobhouse, J. C. Hobart., A. W. Hume, J.
Hutchinson, Ha-C.ll.lore, T. S. Moberly, John

On Tuesday week Mr. Tindal, the English Barrister,
wu elected Member for the burgh of IVigtown.--Edinbargh Star.
Mr. BAT TIE It.-•-11 is said that the late extraordinary,
proceedings in the lUth Hunan!: are to be made the subject of a
notice in Parliament. It excites great curiosity among the army to
know whether the aristocratical regiment in question arc really to
be allowed to recruit among themselves, and, according to the
phrase attributed to ',hem by Mr. Battier, " to bully the people at
the Horse Guards."—Erruing Polar.