The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1825-04-16 00:00:00

v.

I 1
THE BRITISH PRESS.

EMIGRATION TO CANADA.
Mr. W. HORTON, in rising to move the grant for the encourage-
ment of emigration from the south of Ireland to the Canada., said,
that the House would have it imtheir recollection that in 1823 a grant
had been voted for the purposes of encouraging etnigration from
Ireland to the Canadas and the Capeof Oood Hope. With respect
to the vote now proposed, it was not likely it would be ever re-
newed in its present form. It was to be considered principally in
the light of a great national experiment, and the object was to place
the emigrants in 5u7.11 a situation as to enable them to maintain
themselves by the exertion of their industry. Under those circum.
stances, he would call on the House to pass this vote, netwitlistand.
ing It was only intended to effect an object of local advantage. He
was not prepared to argue on the general propriety of appropriating
the public funds to particular and partial purposes, but in this case
there was such a benefit to be obtained, as would sanction a depar-

ture from general principles.
Mr. J. GRATTAN thought this grant was money thrown away.
He wished an inquiry to be Instituted for the purpose of ascertain-
ing how far the suite of Ireland required or was beneliteil by
emigration.
klr. V. FITZGERALD supported the present grant, but
thought the principle of emigration ought to be still farther ex-
tended to be made in any great degree serviceable to the country.
'file subject should be taken up by his Majesty's Governmint with

that intention.
Alr. AIIE.RCRO3IBY had been favourable to the experiment
—it was nct his wish that it should be now abandoned, but there
was no lice in continuing the system on its present footing. With-
out enlargement or modification it would be perfectly inefficient.
Mr. %V . HORTON defended the grant: with respect to the
charge made of unnecessary expense, he could assure the House
that Government took great pains to ascertain the most economical
way of carrying the emigration Into effect. They sought informs-
tion from the best sources, and on that information they acted. It
was surely better in the first instance to demand the full 811171 neces-
sary, than be driven afterwards to call on the House for money to
meet the arrears.
Mr. BRIGHT thought a Select Committee should be appointed
to examine how every thing connected with the question of emigra-
tion may be most safely and economically canted into effect ; qr,
perhaps, it would be more interesting and useful to inquire bow we
may best employ our population at home, rather than send them
abroad. Ile opposed the present grant, and would continue his
opposition, until it wastbeirn to bins that the 30,000!. now askpd
for were better than thrown away. It appeared from returns of the
number of persons who emigrated since Government continence!.
giving assistance, as compared with the number who, before that
time, went out of the country at their own private expense, that the
excess of the former over the latter did not by any means correspond
with the great sums which the country was called on to pay.
Me. S. RICE said, that If the present grant were in reality an
experiment, he would say let the experiment be made. They had,
however, one experiment before them, and without knowing the
result of that, they were called on again to pursue the same
comae. The question of emigration was one of serious importance,
and must eventually force itself on the attention of the House.
(Hear.) Some of the advocates of ernigatian defended- it on the
grounds that disturbance was generated by excess of population ;
one single fact was sufficient to upset such a problem. If the
population of any diwrict in the south of Ireland, where the dis-
turbances most prevailed, were compared with that of a district of
similar extent in the county of Armagh, where all had continued
uninterrupted tranquillity, it would be found that the population
of the latter was at the least double that of the former. Emigra-
tion was therefore not to be defended by such an argument. There
was one thing which, in his opinion, led to emigration : landlords
had on their grounds a crowd of persons, and were dnven to the
alternative of either driving them out of the country, or of allow-
ing them to remain on the lands to eat up the entire profits. The
landlords were therefore theoreal promoters of emigration ; and,
however the people might at first have been mistaken as to the
'motives for bending them away, they now saw clearly into it, and
(to use their own phrase) looked on it as na better than a " mighty
genteel mode of transporting." Still they were satisfied to go ;
there was no need of force ; rather would they seek any part of the
world as a resting-place, than continue at home to endure the
miseries that were heaped on them. Ile was not of opinion, that if
these persons wished to emigrate the State should not assist them ;
but he thought the landlord, who was so much interested, ought
also to contribute to the expenses The subject was one well worthy
the attention of a Committee up stairs, and he trusted Ministers
would name one for that
purpose
Mr. 31. FITZGERAI
vas originally disposed to try the
experiment ; and it we,, in his opinion, wise to repeat it, because
he thought the system likely to benefit Ireland. He had on former
occasions pressed.the adoption of it on the Hon. Gent. (Mr. Horton),
and it would be ungrateful in him now to withdraw his support
It had been said that there was a considerable emigration of the
middling farmers from Ireland. This was but too true; and he
could say, because he knew it from authority, that it proceeded in
a great measure from their being unable to live among the pauper
population which surrounded them. Whatever, therefore, tended
to relieve them from a portion of this population would, he thought,
benefit the country at large and if die expense of 20/. for their
com(eyeaP,..!ta•obseettieMete 11 might lie reed by offer-
ing In theme
shin-matizet a corn titian. Confident thateetahlrty
thousand pounds would be well applied, as an experimental mea-
sure, and approvinoior the/petters' principles avowed by his 31a-
jest; 'a Government he 46uld give the grant his earnest support.
Mr. U3IE wluld oppose the grant, from a conviction that the
population thus bstracted would only make room for others,
without affording; any relief to the country. lie disapproved toe
of the principle (uf sending these poor creatures out to starve in
other countnese it was' better fee to leave them at home, tintie
we supplied, them with t 'mind when they reached those countrietrel
as well as tae means of going to them. The experiment had
been tried at the Cape of Good Hope, and he believed fcw re-
mained to tell the effect of it. They wanted no such experiment
with regard to Canada; they bad already sent them 188 males
arid their families, at an expense of 12,00 W. to that country;
and what had been the benefit ? Why. after becoming a burthen
to the inhabitants of Lower Canada during the summer, and la-
bouring• little only in the large towns, they had all, or almost
all, passed, at the approach of winter, into Upper Canada, and from
thence to the United States : so that we were now actually called
to give 30,0001. to reward emigration to America, in addition to
the 12,0001. already bestowed for the sante patriotic purpose. We
were called upon to do all this too without affording any relief
to Ireland, as the Hoes. Secretary himself admitted.
Mr. W. HORTON here said across the table, "No particular
relief."
Mr. HUME resumed--Well,l no particular relief. if the
Honourable Gentleman must encourage emigration, let him
take of the restriction, and he would find plenty of enacts to convey
emigrants to the United States, at little more than 21. 10s. a head.
But he opposed the plan altogether ; the pauper population had been
crated by the great landholders of Ireland letting out their estates
to middlemen. That had created the pauperism. They had the
advantage derived from that letting, and now, when they were suf-
fering from it, he objected to their relief; they should bear the
evil they hail themselves created. The lion. Gentleman then er-
treed into an elaborate examination of the items of the expenditure
of last year for the Canada emigrants, and contended that it had
been shockingly profuse and extravagant. He particularly ob-
jected to the supply of tea and sugar fur the women and children,
articles of which he maintained they did not nor could not know
the use. He had once gone into a cabin near Bantry Bay, io Ire-
land, with a friend, who (for some purpose or other which we could
not hear) used sugar candy. The family in this cabin were squat-
ted on the ground round a basket of smoking potatoes ; his friend
asked die children to eat some sugar candy, and to the astonish.'
meta of them both, they never had seen any before, nor did not
know the use of sit, and even when they did taste it, they prefer-
red their dear native potato. Was it then for these pauper Irish
that this country was to be burthened with expenses for tea, sugar,
plum pudding, sod other articles of luxury, when it was upon re-
cord, too, that they had actually refused all that was provided for
them, and asked to be supplied with potatoes? The Chancellor of
the Exchequer would but ill fulfil the professions of economy he
had made to the country, if he consented to such an expenditure
for an uncertain good. Let a Committee be appointed let them
inquire into the consetewinces of the past experiments in emigra-
tion--into the probable results of the future, and he would then
give his support to their recommendation, if it proved favourable
to the Lion. Secretary's views.
111 r. JOHN S3l ITH, no:withstanding the strong language
used by the Hon, Gentleman who spoke last, would give his assent
to the proposed grant. He would seed the poor population of Ire-
land out at the expense proposed, if it was only to relieve so many
of his fellow-creatures from the rryy of their present situation.
The speech of the Hoo..,Member tic hsst ....Alan inins
mind pain and regret, and lie could not but feel that it was bad
taste to make a test of suffenngs which only showed how much
human nature had been degraded by bad government and persecu-
tion. lie was favourable- so emigration, azd he hoped the time
would soon arrive, when, by improvements in stuns nal:V.lm,
adventurers might be conveyed to America at an expense almost
incredible.
Mr. W. HORTON replied. He said that the Hon. Member
for Montrose bad been grossly mistaken in his assertions with re-
gard to the expense of conveying the emigrants. From a paper he
held in hie hand it appeared the sum was 31. 13s. lid. a-head, from
Cove to Quebec. Some reduction might, he admitted, be made
upon this, because the last emigration had been resolved upon has.
tila, without due notice to the shipping interest. He contend, d
that the experiment of 1023 had not been sufficient to enable them
to see how the people of Ireland could go on with their own re-
sources.
Mr. HUTCHINSON was desirous of supporting any measure
calculated to giverelief even to a few of his poor unlortueate coun-
trymen. Ile did not think the plan should be treated as one of
extensive legislative relief; instead of partial measures, such as the
present, Ministers should conic down and unite the people of Ire.
Lind, and redress her maltiplied grievances. This, and this alone
could be available to remove the great distress with which Ireland
had been so long
_oppressed.
The CIL% NGELIA/R of the EXCHEQUER would not sup-
port the Pecommendstioo of referrink this subject to a Committee,
if by such recomtsiendation it were intended to set aside the pre-
sent vote. As ter as the sentiineots of the Committee pow sitting
upon the general state of Ireland were known, they were, he be-
hests!, tay..erable -to the plan of emigration. However, before
any extensive plan of emigration were adopted, he would be satis-
fied that the question should undergo the investigation of a Com-
mittee. The question was, one of the utmost importance. The
present General Committee on Ireland might be too much men-
pii.d with multifarious topics to attend to the subject In all the
requiatte details. He should therefore recommend, before the plea
was adored on an extensive scale, that it should receive the meat.
1114' ure and wi..tinct consideration.
itIr.TRANT would support the grant, only in consideration of