The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1822-06-04 00:00:00

allowed, otherwise it Irobld be impalable for the
fisheries to bear up against the tax. charged, as
they would be, with an ed imiereas duty of 13 per
cent. on the price of the article.
Sir J. filasypeao complained of the practice of
taking the tax on salt the cubic foot instead of
by weight. whichJv" had operated most in-
juriously during the last three years. He thought
that Ireland ought to receive some equivalent to the
remission of the English leather tax.
Mr. Hums observed how contrary the acts of
ministers:owe to their profenkons of economy.
lie remarked on the sbourdity of keeping up a
sinking , fund of five millions when a reduction of
tszes was called for all over the country. Why
would the Right Hon. Gentleman delight in de-
viating front principle for the sake of expensive
and complicated machinery in the public accounts ?
Since the anion of the Exchequers he had borrow.
ed ttO millions to give to the Commissioners of the
sinking fund at 63, by which those Commissioners
had been paying off at 63 and 66. He himself had
submitted a statement to the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, explaining this to him, and no alteration
had taken place. Why Hot put the finances on a
solid and permanent footing? He concluded with
Moving a Resolution to that effect :
That it is expedient to take from the sinking fund as
annual sum equal to the marast of taxes lo be remitted, in
order to relieve the distresses of the country, instead of raps.
In money by. loam or ammity, as proposed by Om Chancellor
of the Exchequer, for tbeparisent of the Naval and Military
Pensions."
•Mr. GitENFIILL said, the question was, if the
success of the amendment would not quash the
whole of the measure of the Right lion. Gentle-
nun ? He did not know how that would be—[We
believe some intimation- in the negative was given
from the Treasury Beoeh].—However, this was
plain, that if loans were to be raised, and any mo-
ney remained in the hands of the Commissioners of
the Sinking Fund, they could not apply it better
than in buying the loan, whether in long annuity
or any other way. He gave notice, that in the
next stage of the discussion, if the ameudment
were lost, he would prepose the adoption of a
clause to empower the Commissioners of the Sink-
, ing Fund to lay out their money in the loan. At
present they were restrained to purchasing iu the
3 or 4 per cents. console.
Mr. illtOnOtt all entirely agreed with the amend-
ment for reasons which he had too often declared
to make it necessary to repeat them. He trusted
this motion would be carried ; of collier, not ex-
pecting that it would defeat the less objectionable
parts of the plan of the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer. If it were to be lost, then he would sup-
port the clause of his Honourable Friend nest
him.—(Mr. Greafell.)—He thought that some at-
tempt should be made to bring the subject to
more exact adjustment. They were not so wide
asunder as was supposed. The Right Honourable
Gentlemau opened his plan in one way; but by a
very inconsiderable admission suggested by his Ho-
nourable Friend, the plan would exactly fall iu
with the views of both sides. The plan was this:
There was at present a set of Conunissumersgoiag
on with their operations in reducing the na-
tional debt. The Right Honourable Gentleman
wanted to create another set of Commissioners to
go on with those operations in a contrary direction
. sazto ,Bair functions were similar, though one
set were celled Commissioners, ana tee other were
to be called Trustees. While one set were to work
in reducing the national debt, another set were to
be equally active in increasing it.—(Hear, hear.)
—That was the principle of the plan of the Right
Honourable Gentleman. Why not, instead of this
olierose and very cumbrous machinery—and to save
the Dew Commissioners the pain of being brought
into the world, and all the painful accidents
and incidents which were likely to be subse-
quent upon their existence—(in any case there
must be great expenses incurred on account
of them)—why not, instead of this infant cor-
poration of trustees, at once recur to those al-
ready in existence—already gruwo up—i• full
enjoyment of their vital functions ? There was no
difference in the office and the duties. The only
difference lay in the name with which they were to
be baptized. There was no difference in the pre-
vious character of the officers; they were to be
chiefly Ministers, with the Governor and Deputy
Governor of the Bank of England. They were all
of the sate taste with the old Commissioners. Make
the Trustees thou out of the Commissioners of the
Sinking Fund ; that would be one grand step to.
wards simplicity of operation. He defied the Right
Hon. Gentleman to ohm any objection to that
measure. Next let tho Commissioners and Trus-
tees meet on the same day, and an the same place
or office; give them the power of buying this
annuity, and then the problem would be at once
solved. The operations would be vastly reduced
in expense and trouble by this simplifying of the
machinery. Why need they have two sets of
persons to do that which would be as well ef.
fected by one ? Why so much expensive and de-
grading mummery ? „Why one shilling of expense
additional? There could be no reason for it ex-
' cept to save the credit of the Right Hon. Gentleman
in riot touching the Sinking Fund—when all man-
kind sow that the resoiirces of that fund must some
way or other be taken up by the plan. He would
support the amendment, and if &list were lost, then
the motion of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Grenfell.)—
He advised the House to put down the delusion at-
tempted upon them, so daring and absurd, and by
which they would be wholly disgraced if they wil-
lingly aulernitted to the juggle.
Mr. T. WILSON was of his former opinion, that
the Plan and the Sinking Fund were opposed to
each other. He could nonsupport the amendment,
however.

Colonel D►vtxs said that the best plan would be
to place the Sinking Fund in the place of the Ali-
nuitonts ; the benefit of the loan would then accrue
in 45 years to the Sinking Fund.—(Hear,
As to 400,000/. which the Right ton. Gentfetnan
proposed to withhold on the remission of taxes,
there could be no possibility of that increase iu
the additional charge for half-pay and annuities,
the reason alleged for it by the Right Htio. Gen-
tleman. It was impossible that there would be-any
increase in the present state of the arnica
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was for some
tine inaurtikte in the gallery. The Right Hos. Genileniau
war under/400i loveaclucht by stating, that he should have
up objection 10, ate inti.ulectioa in the Bill of a clause em-
bodying the iruggesti:.o of the Hon. Member for Penryn
(Mt. Greefell,) for giving to the CAiwirsissiooers fur the Re-

4`tr.

deniption of the IStational Debt poster to put us them
aunuitsra.—(Cheers from the Oppowtion.)-41e was disposed
to accede to the suggestion, becanne be did out think such
an arrangement was at all in opposition to the principle of
the Sinking Fund; and be should take the liberty of stating
his ressaos for entertaining that opinion when the clause
came under their consideration.

Me RICARDO confessed that he bad been much sur.
prima at what be had heard that main from the Hon.
Member for the City of London (Mr T. Wilson). The
rfiect of she pica as it was now proposed, was, that one set
of Commissioners was to be sent into the market to sell
stock on the public account, and another set to purchase
the same stock.—(Hear, bear.)-.-The Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer. if he understood him right, intended to bring a
clause into his Bill to compel the Trustees under the prevent
plan, and the Commissioners of the Sinking Feud, to deal
with each other iu the purchase and sale of those muskies.
When first be brought forward the proposal for providing
for the payment of the military and nasal pensions by au.
nuities for a term of 45 years, the Right Hon. Gentleman
void be was not so yonag is office, be was not so inexpe.
rieneed as to propose such ■ plan to the House before lie
had felt his way, sad ascertained that he could carry it lino
effect. The next time the subject cause under cellulite...lion
he told them that he did not expect to be able to effect the
°relation at the rate of 1,500,0001., which was the sum he
bad a► first proposed. Aad now it appeared that he was
toot able at all to give effect to his first proposal, and
therefore be came forward with another for rifertiur
hie objects by appointing Commissioners to sell sushi.
ties for t►e pu►pose, which annuities were to be pur-
chased by the Commis/Muera of the Slotting Foud out of
the monies in their hands. Could any thing be plainer than
that suc► • plan must operate in diminution of the sink.
ing fund?—{Hear, bear )—So it was, that for a long time
the Right Hon. Guillermo' kept up the delusion of a sink.
leg fund of 16.000,0001.; but be had since, though tardily,
acknowledged that he bad only a ainkiag fund of 5,000,0001.
sad he (Mr. R.) did expect that he would et length also
tardily acknowledge that the real Sinking Food was only
3,000,000/.—(Hear, and laughter.)

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, he could Dot
conceive that it was really a matter of any great consequent
whether the business of those anouilies was managed by ose
net of Commissisners or another ; and he apprehended Mho
stronger objection could be made to the proposal than that
which turned upon what set of Gentlemen should administer
it, that would not be thought a sufficient reason fur depaitiag
from the plan. The liononrable Member fur Portarliegtou
(Mr• Ricardo) had entirely mistaken the intentimi of his
Right Hon. Friend, which was, Instead of compelling, to leave
it optional with the Commissioners of the natiooal debt,
if they shoold think it advantageous, to deal in these annui-
ties for 4?, years, rather thee in the stuck to which they were
sow limited. That, be thought, iasteed of so larder-
meet epos the principle of the sinking fund, would be as
exteosion of its operation really to the advantage of pub-
lic credit ; for, in his opinion, the Commissioners ought never
to have been excluded from Jealiog in any stock whith came
lists the minket. These annuities were is the nature ere saw
stock created and thrown into the general market, sod the
Winning of leaving it to the option of the Commissioners
ee toe side whether the would sell, and of those on the
ether, whether they would purchase this stock, would be
to raise it to its proper level in the market. His Right Hoe.
Friend had been taunted with hawing said, " He was not so
young se to propose a plan which he had not the means of
cerrying jab effect." The truth was, that one greet com-
pany, the Routh lira Company—(Hear, and tangibly/o—bad
expressed their willingaess to contract; but on farther
consideration of the terms, after the phis was proposed is
that Howse, they had thought proper to alter their mind.
So that his Right Hon. Friend had at least a just right to
nictitate epos the acceptance of his plan, as had been pro-
mised when be opened it to the Howse. He did set see how
the Horse could eosisistently adopt Ibe proposition of the
Honourable Member ter Aberdeen (Mr. Hume), having twice
before rejected it; but he did think great progress would
be made towards the mimeses of the operation by adopting the
suggestion of the H &hie Member fur Peary' (Mr.
Grenfell )

Mr. CALCRAFT mid, paresre subjectis was • good
motto, sea nee upon which be should •Inayv be happy to
Noble Lord and the Richt Hon. Ogg-
Ilemsn were coming daily more and more near to what they
(the Opposition) had every day been peening them to adopt.
Ile moreveryda they did so, the betterytheyappeoacbednearer
should toth
bese bebik pleased.iacfued He
and
assist therefore beg leave to defend the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer from the apology of the Noble Lord.--(Laughter.)--
It was not the Right Honourable Gentlemen, but the
Noble Lord himself, who, sot baring properly informed
himself upon the subject, came down to the Homo and
stated that there were pewee ready to take the contract;
and afterwards, when it was diseoivT4l that it was not so,
the Right Hon. Castleman was compelle.l to come down
and announce the failure of the scheme. The Noble Lord
therefore it sins who had led the House astray, himat:!iisv-
ing been deluded by an offer from the South Sea Company,
a body, by the by, whose name was associated with welly
ominous reeolleetious.—(leuehter.)--Coocriviog the opera-
tion of the plea proposed to be, is effect, a diversion of the
sinking food, which it wouldbe more advisable to esecute di-
rectly, iustead of bringing itsbout by circuitous and complex
means, he should vote for the proposal of the Hon. Member
for Aberdeen (Mr. Home) ; and if that were rejected he
would then vote for that of his Hon. Friead, the Member
for Penryn (Mr. Grenfell), to which it seemed there would
he no objection, to enable and authorise Ministers to do that
which he wanted to compel thee to do. Having effected
that, and secured • reduction of taxation to the sanoisut of
2,000,000/., although the Ministers had at lest denied that
any such reduction was possible, and had ail slow main-
tained that it could produce Do benefit to the people, no
relief whatever to the country ; be did sincerely believe that
it would be foiled that the people would feel themselves
much happier, with cheaper salt, cheaper food, cheaper
shoes, and • reduction in the vices of other articles, than
if they bad been suffered to reneftio in the same state in
which they were at the commencement of the Sessioo.

Sir F. BLAKE said the whole argument and nictitation
of the Chancellor of the Exchequer went to prove, that after
subtracting 4,000,0001. fiom his Sinking Fond of 5,000,0001,
there would be still 5,000,00(3S. r emalning.—(Lnughter.)—
The reason why the Right Liam Gentleman preferred the
connotes' machinery of his own plan to the straight.forward
proposal of the Hon. Member fur Aberdeen, was, because
he wished to "Isla the S taking Fund, until noise future
opporluwity should occur fur seizing epos the whole. That
was the true ground of his pretence of realizing for the
beer& of posterity.

TM HoMe divided, l'ae numbers being—.
For the original Remoluiios Bl
For the Amends Sent 54

MajecitY against Ike Ameedenent .. 27
Os our return' to Cele gallery we found
Mr. HUMS 00 I tin few, and when the cessation of the
noise, occasioned byl the rushieg of strangers into the gallery,
permitted us to r,s/lect his observations, he appeared to be
speaking iu support of another amendment. Acco►diag to
the proposal of the Right Hoe. Gentleman, the Trustees were
to receive with, one band 4,900,0001. in the first year, and to
give hack wi th the other hand 2,600,0001. He should sow
propose to mollify the operation, by taking from the slaking
fund 2,100,0 401. in the first year, and a proportionate sem,
accordoug the reduction io the scale before the House,
Is each so eceeding year of the first period of finer* yeses,
cad by pa Our to the co.Costmisaionera of the Sinking Feud the
balance t setweea 1,000.0110/. and the sato fixed for each year
in the wale be had before alluded to, of the remaining 30
years. The effect of t his proposal would be, that iis the
first 15 years the Comm issiouers would have to advance to
the Chancellor of the El:chequer 16,027,000/. sad in the
remelt oder of the teem they would receive 44,100,0001.;
that i• to say, they hoed receive beck iu the latter period
lb* w hole of the sums t►ey bad advanced (Weise the first 15
years, with compound in tercet os the same. He cuucluded
by usoviat as an ammo est—
" That for she purpos c of apportioning the Military and
Naval Pensioner, (=Awe/ iably to the Revolution of a Com-
mittee of she whole House on the 3.1 May last, the Commis-
sioners for the Redempti on of the Natinont Debt be autho-
rised and required is ad sauce, In equal quarterly payments,
on or before the lbtb J armory, 'Sib April, 15111.1111 y, and

!IA October in Mete yew. ILe suns respeetkely aimed fu,
the seat 15 years ea the angered Liat, the first paysteat to M the 15th October 10113; sad that after the 15th year, the
Leda Conssiggiootes of hie Majesty's Tosasey be galls.
tided sad ettisireS to Fry to the laid Commteeiudeel the tiff.
&awe 'Degrees the steins waned for each year in the lad List sod 2,1100,0001"
The CHANCELLOR of the EkCHEQUER °poised the
amendment, as beiug sabstautially the sante as that which
the House had just rejected.
The amendraeat was then negatived titithost • division.
The second sad third Resolotisort were Him agreed to.
On the fourth Reaulotios being moved—
Mr. GRENFELL mowed, as as amendment, " That it
shall tad may be lawful for the Corentissionets for the R.
demptiutt of the Fissional Debt, if they think I. t cxpeldeol,
to apply any amain placed to their aerostat, to thr puerility
of say *enmities ow the said sem of 2,800,004/. for the term
of 45 years, which the Trustees may think it wit isabk 1,
sell; sad ako to purchase say other annuities created b,
Parliaasest.'

The CHANCELLOR of the EtCHEQUER hae:ria
peened his assent to the amendment, it •as agreed is wit
out a division.

- .Oa Ilithleso lotion being pot, " That 13s. oat of the I.
gelearmagwa:
si.btsille:aßwaßedrempa:eyliartbsatleoirdnio,raire: ee:itoofulmarubesishekeil:owerhheakrnicuht,,:.&..,itzstrill:::.
atemoseteb,mo::::.tatircougdnitm:duacaieruwkitase:arEtentrNihirisatitiliemiettallirdasemswittiettratielmadsxsamenwowflastiseertasatrziwhedisiebs:aucti:haotdd.l.ishlbiTelrialeielbftreir.
p„:".1
teuarrir:
the eple:t7e,....wiihiaer;i:i.
was, the poor people is the country,
ieodpmgfeeiwbo would I ..
year. The mock re
-
fleeted their sell sl:libitidfo.:eff:hratbyperth
they killed before the close of the
fleeted on this subject the more isostrinced he ors het i.
would be better to take off the whole tax. 'fie; I I
henewpooucr
convinceda CHANCELLOR
ethEretiofo eaßmboreuedehe E
I:Hoi"Enclud eaR Than the,,
h,whiche it
.wuHAprtepeoselidrtees retain
s alliouessidiornelyt produce
mi:l ttt o,s.a2Zid:trthPlir "ii,i't
a year; which might be raised, if it were neceesary for Ole
revenue, in some other way, so as to press less heavily is
whole of the duties on salt should cease nod deterrainef
sod after the Sib October, 1021.°—(Loud cheers.) ros
en nreaagement having bees agreed upon for the nunnion
of a cerisis amount of taxation for the re..ief of the cowry,
elk-ratios could be made in allot arrangernest without break-
ing down the *bole *latent; for any debtiescy that anoint
be created in the revenue by soy such alteration must he
made good either by the imposition of some sew tea, or,
which would be much worse, by neereachiag on the inie.
grity of the sinking fend, which it had been determined to
keep up—(Hear, Year.)—lf all the arguments which !id
. been urged on the other hide as to the effect of the psa.iou
scheme us the sinking fund had any thin of weight is them,
they went to strengthen his ease ; for in properties is the el-
itist to which that plan operated in doniendion of the sinknie
food, it became them with the greater pertinacity to uphold
the remainder. With rented to the particular proposition
of the Honourable Member, he must oats, that he did
Chink that the remission of 13s. out of lbs. would give to
the gametal consumer all the benefit ofa total repeal —!Hen,
hou.)--In briogiog !.round his [dim, he bad calculated on
an increased commniption by the reduction of the duty, which
would raise the p educe uf the duly retained to at least
300,0001. which would be lost to the psblie by the primal
of the Honourable Member. lo the time of William 111.
the duty was 3.. ed. a bushel; and when they considered the
peones rate, and the proportion in which every other article
had risen in price since that xrieed, be was sure they wonla
see that it could hardly he felt as a tax by the coosomer.
Mr. BROUGHAM congratulated the House on the one
lights that were breaking in upon them with respect to
the benefits of • rentiesiesa of Mistime, from which the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, in the beginning of the
Session, not only deuicd that any relief euuld he reflood
for the people from a resninsion of taxation, but he on!
farther iliac asynoan besides had ever gone in that direr-
lieu ; sod yet now he came forward sod descanted an the
beoefit to be derived to the country (torn its being relieved
from a part of the salt tax. He concurred with the Hos.
/sin:Minn !or Cumberland (Mr. Curium) la thiotior, that it
would be far better to take off the whole tax, even if it
should he a y to supply the sows sought to be retained
from some other source; and his Demme was, that it ate
too much to keep op the exp.-rused machinery of cullecii.in
for so small an moist. The expense of collection in Ent.
land was 34,111001., sad is Scotland, where the pro.
dote of the tax was iholy one fifteenth of the non it
yielded in England, the charge for CitileClloll was 21,000 t
He anticipated, therefore, that the expense of collecting
even the et•iluced tax would be little abort of 30,1109 f.
Another objection to the propood arrangement, hide.
Irodent of the expense, wan the patronage it left to
the Crowe. Do what they would to alter the salt law,
modify it as they chose, in order to adapt it to the
change of circumstances, be moailei a-rotate to easel that
wiggle the law remained it would be Impala* nol le
retain a great put of the most objectionable potting
of the j:ithecue Laws, which was die worst part of
the law of the coVary. None who had not seen it in open.
lion, ecakt biun as; idea of the suares which it spend is
the ~,,,, of the row,. who came within the sphere of iis
iolluence, and of the opp,-ession which resulted from its
practice. Would they the* keep up the odious system
merely to keep alive a branch uf revenue, according to the
calculation of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, not es-
ceediog in amount 300,0001. s year, which might he better
raised in some other way? To do so was a most so•iee
policy in point of expert', and moil unjust to the cossuy
in a coostitetionsi pond of view. ..
The Marquis of LONDON DERRY saidlet would rut it
to the House, whether the scope of his Right Hen. FrierA's
o f
taxes, argumentshad
don
sotformer
b, n
which the statements of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
had been calculated to excite i• the country, by tesdiug I.
the iudulgeaee of the hope that any relief could be demo,
c'dcie3:::72t.o°llhiethreemalloviiifetal ofotfhererrelirs'in
lion that could
otbeaagricu be effected
ltureofthe
with safety
country
byan,lro public
educti
croretittaii—xi.
(Hear, bear )—His Right Hamlet-able Friend's iillealion vas
only to raution the House and the tousle, sge,ast being
misled by the Hou. and Learned Gentleman's statorkentri
into the fallacious opinion mato the extent of relief that (road
he drawn from a remission of oaten, by *hewing the homy"'
bility of reducing taxes to such an smonnt witloott an ores
Roark open the Sinking Fund, which the Hoc awl Lamed
Gentleman tacitly sanctioned. They were accused of roam-
ing the Ils. a buehel salt duty fur the purpose of keeping up
tbe patronage of the Crown. But what mu the fact? 'rho
only officer* that were to be retained were those at the pit's
mouth, and nut those who superintended the distribution
over the country, sad the charge (or their 'alone' end
other expenses would sot exceed 7,01101., or at most 10.04111
And as fir the pairoisage, the whole of thote app.' time'''
were made be the Conannesioners .1" Excise and not 1.. i• i
Treasury.—(Hear, hear.)—lt was impossible to take ill •. i
Is. from salt, unless they retained the whole of the lead.,
tax. Unless they proposed to retrace all their steps, lo
abandon all their former Resolutions, the House could no.
secede to the propositions of the Hon. sod Learned Geody
map, sad if it did, be would warn them of the ecomiequenc.,
he (Mr. B.) would soon bars a portion or the interest.
Mr. DAVENPORT opposed the envodment.
Mr. RICARDO said, if he understood the °bin-tins of the
Chaucellur of the Exehrqner to the •mesdmest of the Ho.
. noorable Member log Cumberland, it was this, thin it "No.,'
had to such an amount of reduction me must be male go d
from some other source, or it would trench upon pohl,‘
Icredit. Now, he thought he could twilit out an easy rope-
' dicta by which the &Initiative might be avoided, which •.iii
'• thien—the Right Honourable tnetitlemaa said, that his A ;
I amity St keine wsa out an infringement of the prieciete ''
the Sinking Fund ;' be would advise him, therefore, ti.
extend his ansuities instead of forty-Ste to fifty 0'
sixty yeses ; and be would venture to say that th,
would give him a sufficient sum to redeem the whole of i!. •
ash tax.
Mr. K. DOUGLAS purported the origisalreselstioa•
_.
General GASCOYNE thought the reteettos of the V
would be much mote productive than was generally istsgn r
from the inc. eased rousumptioa of salt. He was surprin'
how any geolleaashwho bad voted for Ike lotion to redo,