The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1806-06-14 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Mr. Quarme, the Deputy Usher of the Black R d, ap-
peared at the Bar, and •ummonerl the liouie to ',mod in the
House of Lords, to hear the Ite),tl Assent given by Cummissom

to rertAtit
The Speaks went a,cooliogly, and nn his return informed
the House, that the Lords had agreed to the Irish Export 2,1,1
Import Kill, the Irish Stamp Duty Bill, the Irish Additional
Forue Repeal BM, and to several petite Bill'.
A short corive,ation took place on the nun reading of the
Gleam Invitiance Collimation Bill, and the Debate wee recd

to be ad,•ounted to Tuv.day.
CONFERENCE WITH TILE LORDS.
Lord H. PETTY reported at the bar, that he had been at
the FIOUSIB of Lords, to desite a Conference on the Resolution
respecting the Abolition of the Slave Trade, and that a COM.
mitts, had been appointed to manage the conference on the
_ .

part of the Lords.
His Lordship also reported that he had delivered to the said
Managers a Copy of the Resolutions of the House on Tuesday
last, which the Managers had carried to that Lords. and that
the Lords wuald send an answer by a Messenger of Oi!

the Excise,

Mr. Kempe, from , present
count of the Ditties of Excise outstanding in 180:i and 1806,
pursuawt to Order.—Ordered to lie on the tittle.
Sir C. Price brooght up a Petition from the Merchants and
Dealers in Thread Lace of the City of London, against the
Thread Lace gill.—Ordered to lie on the table.
Mr WICKHAM moved fora Copy of any Article or Arti-
cles relative to theT aaaa y between this Country and the Court
of Bavaria, in 1500; also a Copy of the Instructions to Cie
Commissaries; and a Copy sof the Crinserissioo appointing the
said War. Wickham Commissary General in Germany, to
gather with {Atter' Imre hint to the Comminarietvelative to
the execution of their Duty.-w Ordered.
Mr. C. GRANTmowed fur a Copy of the Report of the
Committee of Correspondence with the Court of Directors, of
the $J October, 1504, on the subject of the Carnatic Debt:,
with the heads of the Plan proposed for the arrangement of the

fled at the Bar an Ac

same —Ordered.
Lord-HOWICK gave notice that he would, on Monday,
move for leave io bring in a Bill to extend the provision of Pay
to Seamen —AI3:I a Bill to extend the same to the Marines.
Sir P. MOORE moved for Copies of several Papers rela-
tive to India.—Ordered. '.
Mr. Secretary Fox brought up the Slave carrying Rill,
which vim read a first time, ordered to be priu:ted, and read
• second time en Tuesday.
Sir J. Sinclair brought up the Report on the Broad-whmiled
Waggon Road Bill.—Ordered to lie on the table.
Sir J. NEWPORT moved, " that the Pitts relating to the
Election of M lathers of Parliament be entered, as read ;"
which being done, he moved for leave to bring m a Bill to
amend the said Aets.—Ordered.
He also moved for leave to bring in a Bill for regulating
and securing the Collection of the Duties on Spirituous Liquors
distilled in Ireland —Ordered.
He then moved, " that the Acts of 10 Geo. 1, and 3 Geo. I,
be entered as read," which belts done, he moved fin leave to
bring in a BO to amend the said Acts.
The Right Hon. Baronet then gave notice, that he would
en Monday move for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the
Wish Spirit Licence Act.
Mr. BERNARD moved for an Account of the different
Sums of Money expended on the Port of Dublin, by the Di-
rectors of Inland Navigation, stating the authority on which
the said Directors have expended the same.-iOnleted.
WF.ST INDIA AUDITORS' BILL.
Lord H. PETTY moved the order of the day
for the House to go into a Committee on the West
India Auditors' Bill, which being read, his Lordship
said, that before he moved that the Speaker do leave
the chair, he would wish to make a few observa-
tions respecting the objects of the Bill, by way of
obviating the objections thrown out against it on
a former night by the Right Hon. Gentleman op-
posite to him (Mr. Rose). He then stated, that in
the year 1300 and 1801, Commissioners were sent
out to the West Indies, for the purpose of investi-
gating and auditing the public accounts in the dif-
ferent islands; that they proceeded in the execution
of the trusts reposed in them, but found the ac-
counts so complicated, and so much mixed with
accounts kept in England, that they could not pro-
ceed with any effect, and were therefore under the
necessity of sending home one of their number,
(Mr. Bearcroft) to communicate their difficulties to
the Treasury, at the risk of the Commissioners on
the islands being at an entire stand.—Mr. Lear-
croft arrived in England in 1804, and in the course
of that and the year 1805, took examinations of the
accounts in England, for the purpose of detecting
the various frauds that had been committed.—ft
was, however, found, in consequence of these exami-
nations, that none of the ?.tors of the abuses in
the West Indies, could be called to an account with
any effect. 'l'ie principal object of the present
Bill was to examine into the former powers, and
to give the Commissioners snore extensive ones.
And in order to obviate the inconveniencies and dif-
ficulties which have antecedently occurred, so as to
frustrate the intention of the Legislature, and all the
efforts of the Commissioners, who had been obliged
-WahaglAa DSO of their members, shire ure-wther
provisions in the Bill, to form a new Board, one 1
.10
part of which. shall reside in the West Indies,
and the other in England, which two Boards
shall continually correspond with each other, and
communicate such difficulties in the \'..-A Indies as
cannot be cleared up without communications
from home. Thus, the two Boards would be en-
abled to make ci ntinual protTrers in the investiga-
tion and auditing of the accounts. No time would
be lust, as had been the case in sending home Mr.
Bearcrolt ; the Commissioners would, on the con-
trary, be efficient ; and how the Right Honourable
Gentleman could call it a sinecure, he was at a loss
to accost t for. There was also a clause in the Bill,
empowering the Treasury to appoint Clerks aud
Sccreraries, but rot Commissioners, as had been
stated by the Right Honourable Gentleman. Hav-
ing made these observations, he would suove, '' that
the Speaker do now leave the chair."
On the question being put,
Mr. ROSE said, the Noble Lord could not be
more desirous to have the abuses in the West
Indies inquired into, and redressed, than he was.
He therefore wished for an effeelual Bill to answer
so desirable a purpose ; where he had, on a former
nigla, laid the greatest stress, was on the Commis-
sioners at home ; he did not object to the appoint-
ment, by the Treasury, of Clerks and Secretaries,
but only to Commissioners, with such a salary an-
us:x.oJ to t .cir employment. He had looked into

every Act or Parliament, and could find no
instance where the appointment of Commissioners
'was made by the Tr-astiry. He olijeard also to the
informality of the Bill ; by one clause the Kirg har
a power, and by another the Treasury si.a.l be at
liberty to appoint another Commissiourr, and also
Secretaries. In all former Acts, the appointment
was aiss sys made, either by Act of Parliament, or
by the gong. under the Great Seal. As the last
Bill went only to the examination of accounts
during the last war, he had no objection to
its being repealed. His grand objection was
to the two Commissioners who are to remain at
home, and who will have very little to do. He
had conversed with Commissaries, Deputy Corn.
missaries, Public Accountants, and almost every
description of persons who had been conversant 'us
those matters, and they all agreed, that no audit.
except on the spot, could be of any use. It was,
therefore, provided in the last mt, that the certifi-
cate of the Commissioners should go to the Com-
missioners for auditing the public account* and he
would have the same done now ; he was sure it
would at least be done as efferneally, it not more so.
He thought the Commissioners at home unnecessary,
when he last spoke on the business, and he still con.
tinned of the same opinion ; and he should, there-
fore, think it Iris duty to take the sense of the House

on it.
Mr. FOX said, that he had himself experienced
the difficulty of finding proper candidates to go to
the West Indies, as some of those he had applied to
for that purpose, said, their situation was not so bad
as to require it. If Mr. Bearcroft. who came over
in an ill state of health, was found useful, for inves-
tigating accounts here, surely Commissioners, atmed
with proper powers, must be more so.
Mr. PERCIVAL said, that if Commissioners
were to be paid here for doing nothing, it would
be still more difficult to prevail upon them to go
over in rotation, than it would be in the first
instance ; as a man may excuse himself by say-
ing, that when he first engaged himself, he was
single, but had been since married, and would not.
leave his famly to fulfil his engagement. Mr.
Rearcroft was found useful, from the local know-
ledge he obtained, while with the CG17111116.
shapers in the West Indies ; hut by this Bill.
theie would be three Commissioners of accounts at
home do.ng nothing, and only appointed for the
sake oh patronage, while there would be only two
abroad actually executing all the business. Nothing
was a greater proof of the patronage, than the con-
fession of the Right Hon. Secce.ary, (Mr. For)
who acknowledged that he offered situations in a
departmer.t with which he had no official com►exion.
The House then resolved itself iuto a Committee
on the Bill, (Mr. Hawthorn in the chair.)
The first Clause being read,
Lind HOWICK explained. that all it enacted
was, that in case of the death of one of the Commis-
sioners abroad, the oilier may appoint the Secrete: y
to act as a Commissioner, ad lidera*, till the pleasufe
of His Majesty should be known ; and atter a long
conversation between S:r Win. Young, Mr. Rose.
Mr. Percival, and the Attorney-Ger.eral, the Clause
was agreed to.
On the clause being read for the appointment of
Lye Commissioners toe auditing accounts, two teal
in the West Indies, and three at home,
Mr. ROSE objeded to it as an unneenifsey sad
unprecedented creation of new and sinecure elem.
merely for the purposes of patronage. He stated.
that so far was this from being sardioned by the
example of the Board of Treasury, under which he
had the honour to ad, that in nineteen years that
Board suppressed upwards of one hundred sinecure
places, of from 20001. to 8001. a year. Two sinecure
place. of 80001. a year, and which at this titre
would have amounted to 40,0001. were vacant, and
in the gift of his Right Hon. Friend deceased, (Mr.
Pitt), but instead of nominating to them, and this
extending his patronage, that great Minister sup.
pressed them, as he did all the others, when
vacancies occurred. There were at one time forty
of them vacant, and he suppressed them all, a IA
which he was ready to prove, if any Gentleman
thought proper to dispute it; for there was nothing
he had more at heart, than that the condu3 of
that Board, during the L 9 years that he belonged to
it, should be examiued into. There was no danger
of any persons now flying from the West lathes to
this country, to escape inquiry, on they would be
equally liahle to it here, since the passing of the
Act of 1802. As he considered this new creation
to be a matter of patronage and mere formality,
without producing any benefit whatever, he should. •
on a future day, move for an elimination at the
Bar, to inquire what use they could be of.
Mr. FOX expressed his surprise that gentle-
men should put this Bill on such a footing. as to
suppose that three Commissioners here, in conger*
correspondence with the commissioners abroad.
could be of no use to the auditors of public accounts.
As to their refusing to go abroad in rotation, that
was no more to be expelled than in other branches
erf 'entice, where gentlemen accepted of employ-
malts subjefl to all the contingencies that belonged
to them, and indeed there was the lees chance a:
such a refusal, as, after residing two years in the
West Indies, they would also in the same rotation
come back again. Amongst the many virtues of
his Noble Friend (Lord Grenville) now at the bead
of the Treasury, industry and attention were far
from being excluded; and he would pledge lea
life and reputation. that if the situations or these
Commissioners should turn out to be mere sinecures*
instead of being laborious and operative, the BJard
of treasury would be greatly mistaken in v.hat it
was about.
Mr. ROSE moved an amendment, .t that 'ported
of five, there should be only three Commissio.xrs."
Lord CASTLEREAGH argued against the
clause, at considerale length. the principal points
he dwelt upon were, that it was an alarming thing
for the House to be now called upon IQ create An ad-
ditional class of Auditors, who, if they were t) ::a
operative, would render the final Auditors, to whore
the country looked for responsibility, a mere sin:.
cure. Upon the whole, he could see only three
effeets th tt could arise from it.. Either this neat
creation would embarrass the existing Auditor-, ''.7
they would turn them into sinecures, or he ,n..-
cures themselves, in any of which cases he Hitt
consider the measure to be mischievous.
Mr FOX adverted to the observation made,
1 its being a proof of the patronage, that ha bad of

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fend these pieces, thnegh helconging to a depart.
nt he was tinconneeted with. Now, the fad was,
that findink there was a difficulty in finding persons
wort.. y of trust, who touid he prevailed on to go
in this satiation to the West Indies, he happened to
Liner two petsoto whom he thought qualified, to
whom he ;unposed it, and who Writhed to it. Had
they done otherwise, a was surely naturel, that he,
knowing of these difiiiulties from persons with
whom he was in daily council, should say, " I
know one or two prisons whom I think duly qua-
lified, and whom you may have, if you are not al-
ready proviaed with a better." This could not
surely be tortured into an attempt to procure patron-
age ; so tar was it from being the case, that, after
the Bill was passed, it, in looking over the lists of
Commissioner, the gentlemen should find the
names of any person recommended by hie), he
would alltrw their) to draw whatever inference they
pleased from i,. A Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Rose) while he accused the present Ministers of
creating mew offices, denied that the Board of Trea-
sury, to which he beloneed, had made any such
crewinns, and boldly challenged an investigation of
the fact. It Woli not his purpose at present to enter
into that su' ject ; but he could not help observing,
that the Noble Lord near him (Lord Castlereagh)
carefully abstained from making such a challenge, or
holding out any such defiance, notwi. hstanding all the
imputation with which he loaded His Mejest)'s pre-
sent hl'nisters (observing Lord Castlereagh at this
time whispering to some Member near him, he
continued) 'f he Noble Lord did well to address
those about him, as he would find it much easier
coavieee them, than any other part of tee House.
The Noble Lord was too prudent to throw down
the gauntlet with the same boldness that was done
by the Right Hon. Gentleman, for if he did, he
assured him that he was ready to take it up,
or, at least, that it would qnickly be taken up by
some of his own countrymen, now in the House,
who would not scruple to affirm, that if not here.
at least in one part of the United Kingdom, new
places were created, and compensations and sums of
stoney were given in the way that the world calls
bribes, for purposes of pet toner and of corruption.
]lo would not, however, assert, that the conscious-
ness of having done so himself, should prevent the
Noble Lord, as a al ember of Parliament, host ar-
raigning the con • praft'ces here ; but such an
admonition from him should bej pro ceded by
Impatience ; and atter con:ening that, he wouitl
be entitled te tell Hi alejeatyrs Ministers, sup-
posies the charge to be well-founded-oh You
ore not to be excused if you even do the hun.
raredrh part of what I have done." The Gentlemen
opposite, however, did not, he thought, net a very
Ootremly part in thus, upon every occasion, throw-
ing every possible difficulty in the way of every in-
quiry proposed by the present Ministers, though
'that was bat following up with 'feel what was
professed to be the design of their predecessors.
Mr. PERCIVAL said, that he and those with
`Whom he aged, acknowledged the propriety of the
objeft intended, but differed as to the mode of doing
Tree plan was now to create, within tour months,
19 auditors, instead of eleven, which was the
*umber thought sufficient, by the late Minister; and
in the present pressure of the country, unlit: such a
load of taxation, they objeßed to such an expence.
:Merely for the purpose of patronage. In rear to
- attack made upon his noble friend (Lord astle,
nosh) by the 'tight Honourable Secretary, he had
To observe, that before the proceedings relating to
the union with Ireland, which the Right Hon. Secre-
tary condemned so much at the commencement of the
session, were arraigned, he would have done well to
eecollect, that my Lord Grenville, with whom he
now acted, was then Secretary of State, and very
active in promoting that very salutary measure. (A
great cry of beer hear!) He said he meant not to
make soy charge against the Noble Lord on that
accoarst, but he doubted if Mr. Fox was dealing
fairly by his colleagues and associates, by stating
that as improper conduct, which would inesive them
in the disgrace.
Lord H. PET FY was anxious to rescue the
charaOcr of his Noble Friend (Lord Grenville)
front the imputation of having been a party to the
disgraceful jobs, and other artifices, employed for
the purpose of dialling the Union with Ireland.
That Noble Lord, as Secretary of State for Foreign
Affairs in England, could nut, under the widest
ideas of responsibility that could be conceived, be
nude at all accountable for the corruption prac-
tised in Ireland, at the time that Ireland was in in-
dependence. and therefore could not be implicated
is the conduct of those alluded to by his Right Ho-
nourable Friend ('4r. Fos). His Lordship then en-
tered into a general defence of the manure before
the House, observing, that the stew Commissioners
amountsyoul havesetoveartutalitmWillieonstslnwtdr croeumnatisn, th
edto
un-
settled fur the last eight years, and that the
additional number was required on account of
tl,e additional inquiries which still remained to
N introit.
After some further conversation between Mr
Rote, Mr. Wick:isns, and the Attorney-General, the
Committee divided on the amendment.
The numbers verve, for the amendment
41—
Against it 91—'Itjority 50.
Some few observations were then made on the
other clauses. and the report was ordered to be re-
ceived on Moeda).
Earl TEMPI.'. nrnved the Order of the Day
for the second resartig of the West Indian Inter-
ctense Brtl
Mr. P .-1L did ant think it right that this
',ensure should be now brought forward, the House
being already exhausted by a long debate; he,
therefore, hoped, that it would be postponed to a
future day.
Earl TEMPLE felt the force of what the Hon:
Gentleman had said ; but he did not think it too
much to ask, thessah Gentlemen seemed determined
to give every opposition to the measures of His
Majesty's Ministers, that the Bill shoal.' be now
read a second time, and that the debate should
take place on the Speaker's leaving the Chair.
Mr. PERCIVAL never could agree with the
Noble Lord : he thought the B 11 of such import•
ance that it should have the fullest discussion ; and
he thought it reliable that he would have to divide
the House, ant only on the second reading, but also
on the question of the Speaker's leaving the Chair.
The thPEALEIt reeninaleJ the House, that there

was a Petition on die table against the Bill, and
that there WAll •n order to hear Counsel.
Eart TEMPLE sa;l he gave way, not to the sug-
gestion of the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Percival),
but to the convenience of the House.

Mr. ROiiE observed, that his Honourable Friend
had merely said, that it would not suit the con-
venience of the House, that a measure of such im-
portance should come on at midnight.
Lord DE BLAQUIF.RE dud not think the
Noble Lord should have spoken with so much
warmth, as to tell his Learned Friend, that he did
not give WAY to his suggestion. The House had a
right to a debate on every stage of the Bill, and
he demanded the opportunity.
Mr. PERCIVAL thanked his Noble Friend, but
declared that he did not think the Noble Earl
(•Femple) had spoken so warmly as was supposed.
Earl TEMPLE said, that any warmth lie might
have manifested, was entirely owing to the rough
manner in which Ihe Honourable Gentleman had
desired him to postpone the second reading.
Mr. PERCIVAL explained.
A short conversation then took place on the
merits of the measure, between Mr. Fox, Mr. Rose,
Sir C. Price, and Dr. Lawrence, after which the
second reading art; fixed for Tuesdiay next.
Mr. HUSKISSON wished to know at what
time the army extranrdinaries would be brought
forward ; he believed there never was a Jessiot
before in which they were so late.
Mr. VANSIT TART could not tell the precise
day, but he believed he might say, that they would
be brought forward in the cou•se of the next week
I'he wort of the Committee on the At relating
to Prussian Yarn was received, and the resolutions
agreed to.

The Excise Office Regulation Bill went through
a Committee, the report was received, and nrdeted
to be taken into further consideration on Wenesday.
The Customs Fees Rill went through a Committee,
and the report was ordered to be received on Mon-

day.
The Assessed Taxes Bill was read a second time,
and ordered to be committed on Monday.
Mr. HUSKItiSON gave notice, that iii the Com-
mittee he would propose to divide this Bill, as one
part of it imposed a tax, and another allowed at.
exemption.
Mr. V ANSI rART ,aid. he had first suggested
the idea, and could nee no ollttetton to it.
Mr HUSKISSON explained, and said he wa'
not aware that the Right Hon. Gentleman had it in
contemplation.
The other orders were disposed of, and the Howl,
adjourned At l'welve o'Clock until Noaday.