The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1824-02-13 00:00:00

ORDER OF THE DAY.

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CUSTOMS PUT) ps,

IRISH REVENUE.

Mr. HER RI ES bad given notice of two motions on separate
Revenue Ada, and that the House should resolve itself into a
committee upon them. He now moved that the farther onnsider.
a 601 of them should be deferred to Tuesday next. The Honour-
able Lientleman further moved for an amount of the debt of the
Expenditure of Revenue, of the receipts of the money paid for the
reduction of the debt, &c.—Ordered,
RIGHT OF SEPULTURE.
Sir J. NEWPORT postponed the motion, of which he gave
notice a few nights ago, to the 19th of February, for the repeal of
the Statute of William 111., relative to the right of Sepulture.

COUNT F:RVA I LINO DUTIES.
Mr. II USK ISSON moved for certain papers, relative to COVl-
uswailing Duties, between this Country and the West Indies.—
Ordered.
IMPRESSMENT OF SEAMEN.
Mr, HUME gave notice that he would postpone his motion, re-
lative to the impressment of seainen, front the 19th of February to
the 11,1 of March. He was induced to make this pustponenient,
from a desire on the pert of certain members now absent to be pre.
mut, and who would take a part in the discussion.

TREAD-MILL.
Sir F. BURDF.TT presented a petition from Miles Stapleton,
Esq. a Magistrate of the West Riding of the county of York,
against the practice of condemning prisoners to the tread-mill before
trial or conviction. The petitioner stated, that he hail often re-
monstrated with other Magistrates against the practice, and he
prayed the House that it might be discontinued. Ile (Sir-E.
Burdett) was of opinion that it was unjust and oppressive in the
extreme, to condemn any individual to the hardship and ignominy
of such a punishment before trial. The subject was one of great
importance, and the least important of it was, to determine
its legality or illegality. There was an Act of last year, which in
his opinion pointedly declared against it; yet Magistrates, up to a
very late, and even to the present period, continued to impose this
rigorous and severe penalty. The power of Magistrates to inflict
this unjust punishment was a power which he believed they exer-
cised with no right on their part to exercise it. There wax no law
to authorize them, as far as he knew; and if there was a law sits.
ceptible of such interpretation as would make out the legality of
*envie* of such • power on their part, such law ought to be
mewled. and a practice so odious put a stop to.
Mr. PEEL said that as to the strict right of the Magistrates to
exercise the power of sending a person committed to the tread-mill,
there could not, he apprehended be any difference of opinion. The
legality of Magistrates to do whad been determined by the Court of
King's Bench. The expediency of the measure was ad isunct consider-
ation ; and, upon that point, he agreed with the Honourable Ba-
ronet. It was certainly unfair that the stigma and disgrace of such
a punishment should be inflicted on • person who afterwards might
be proved innocent. This was the opinion which he expressed on
the subject last Session, when it was introduced. The punishment
be was then, and now, of opinion, wss disgraceful and severe, and
the practice ought to he prohibited. There was a Bill in prepara-
tion, which, he apprehended, would meet the objections which had
been raised to the practice of committing persons to the tread-mill
before trial.
Sir F. BURDETT denied the legality of the practice, and de-
nied that the question had been decided by the Court ofKing's
Bench. The point which the King's Bench decided was, that such
prisoners as were unwilling to work should be stinted to a hare sub-
sistence. They waived • determination on the legality of the prac-
tice, and left it altogether undecided. The practice was one which
he conceived to be an inroad nn the sound principles of the consti-
tution, and ought to be put a stop to. For his part,. he thought it
harsh and severe that a person should at all be imprisoned before
trial, but at least his imprisonment should be made to bear lightly
upon him, and instead of hardship, every accommodation should
be afforded to him. No arbitrary jerisdiction should be exercised
in his regard which would render him liable to severer punish-
ment than might be inflicted upon him, though he were found
guilty of the offence with which he stood charged. This hardship,
together with the cruelty of cutting off prisoners from their friends,
was of itself a penalty which was only due to the commission of
some flagrant offence. Under these circumstances, he hoped the
petition would receive the utmost attention of the !louse, and that
a practice would be discontinued which he believed in be illegal,
and which he felt to be unjust and oppressive in the ex.
treme. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. PEEL -explained. It might be that prisoner% were re-
quired to work for their support, but it was his opinion that no
unconvicted prisoner should be obliged to work without his con-
sent. (Hear.)
Mr. S. WORTLEY bore testimony to the correct conduct of
the Magistrates, and stated, that whether the practice was strictly
legal or not, they at least acted from a conviction of its legality.
Mr. JAMES said that this decision of the Court of King's
Bench was equivalent to a condemnation of a prisoner to labour
before trial : for they permitted him to be starved to death, which
was the same thing as to say that he must work for his exist-
ence. (Hear, and a laugh.)
EXPORTATION OF TIN.
- • • - • • • - •

Mr. TRE3IAINIIMOved that there be laid before the House
an account of the quantity of tin imported and exported into this
country during the last year.

Cul. DAVIS moved for an account of the Customs Duties of last
year, and the charges of their collection ; distinguishing the several
port establishments of London, Plymouth lhal,
—Ordered.

Mr. MARERLY resumed his motion- with a slight amend-
men:, tur the production of the papers fur which he moved yester-
day : —An amount of the debt. funded and unfunded, In Ireland,
from January ri, to the Union, and from the Union to the
consolidation of the Exchequers of the two muntries in 18!!I ; also
Ut charge of interest on the !UM!, and the supplies wade out
of it, the drawbacks, &c. and the amount of population, in each
vest.

EMI6II.ITION (11.' A ItTIS.%NS.
Mr. HUME rose to bring forward th.• motion of which he had
given notice, relative to the emigration of artisans, and exportation
u: machinery. The subject was one of greater importance, and
surrounded with greater difficulties, than any which he had before
undertakes. It was his present intention to move tar a committee
to inquire into the various laws affecting the manufacturers, a most
important class 'lithe vat:milky, and one, he might almost say,
amounting to a majority of the Inhabitants of the country. It was
tow two years ago since lie presented a petition from the artisans of
the Metropolis, to which were affixed fifteen thousand signatures.
Resides this, there were many other petitions from other pans of
the country, which collectively amounted to the expression of the
opinions of a vast !notion of the community. Ile had intended to
bring forward the subject last year, but finding that an important
branch of thr,vestion had been taken up by another lion. 31 ember,
and not finding a suitabla opportunity for the introluction of the
measure, he postponed it to the present &salon. Ile could not
but regret on the present occasion that he was without the *tyro%
id an lion. Friend IMr. Ricardo) on whose assistance he mainly
calculated. Versed, as he intimately was, on all subjects, there
was none with which he was nitre intimately acquainted than the
science of political economy --a science which was not ;wired as
highly as it ought to be. because it was ill understood. The
!louse would renieniber the candour with which he enforced his
own opinions, and the moderation with which he listened to the ob-
jections of others. (Rear, hear.) Ile steadily adhered to those
pnncipks, " through good report, and through evil report,"
which he conscientiousiy believed tend's' to advance the
welfare of the communit Whatever might he the difference
foponion which prevailed between his lamented friend and other
Members, be was. sun' dist the (lentlemen opposite, as well as
aWneat,;ind him. wotdd hear testimony to his value as a Member
of this blouse. to the integrity of his views, and to the singleness of
his object in aiming to promote the public good. (('hens from the
I Ippoattion, re-echoed by the Ministerial benches.) It had even
been seen already, that niany of the productions of his Honourable
Friend, which some were disposed to treat as wild theories, had
since proved to be true. Ile had to apologise for entering on the
which his lion. Friend lint so ably trod before him. The
of which besought. were recommended by being ,
and lie was aware of the difficulty he had to con-
.arouring to remove prejudices of long standing.
rable to ally rartieulnr set of laws. flowerer.
sri which he saw manifested on the opposite side
Session, he apprehended that this would not be
'location, and that every effort woukl be made f 0
POWS to make 'ten suitable to the circumstances
. (Hear, hear.) At present he only sought the
.:onimittee; and upon investigation it would be
ter the repeal which he proposed was proper or
Hoverer, that the circumstance of the present es-
would tot operate as an obstacle to inquiry. Ile
Session. that a hen the Spitaltields Act* were under
iretiostance of their existence was the alleged pre..
lishilig them. Although no person, in the present
ecommy, would propose such a measure; yet,
arietions were laid on, their removal was difficult.
he intended to submit to the house, embraced

three propositions the emigration of artisans ; Idly, the ex-
portation of machinery; 3dly, dreCombination haws. In introducing
these propositions, his motion assumed a more compythensive shape
than that in which at first he intended to present it to the notice
of the !louse. At first it was his intention to have submitted the
two first propositions only, and not to have included the last; how-
ever, with the advice and at the suggestion of some friends, he was
induced to include it in the consideration of the subject. In re-
commending the repeal or modification of the laws which affected
the emigration of artisans, he was actuated by the principle which
gave free agency to the subject—a principle which ought to pervade
every law. In his opinion, no law should be enacted in a free
country which had a tendency to shackle the free disposition of the
subject, arovided the exercise of such freedom on nee part did not
intuit the community, or endanger the political existence of the
State (Item!, bear.) The property of every man was surely his
own, and should be subject to his own disposal. There was en
opinion of Adam Smith on this subject which he would recommend
to the attention of the House The property of every man (said
Dr. Smith) is his own : labour is the foundation of all property ; it
results from the exercise of the torengsh of his own hands, and any
interference with it is a palpable violation of the most sacred rights
of property." ( ear.) Ile would put to the (louse a ease of great
hardship, as it bore upon the artisan. Any gentleman or person
of property might go abroad ; he might take property with him,
and he might draw property from this country whilst abroad., and
expend it, and no penalty awaited ion : and yet ifs poor man was
uesiruus of going abroad, he was immediately stopped ; nay, if a
magistrate be informed of his intention to go abroad, he may send
for hint, and oblige him to give security that he will not leave the
country. This certainly was a great hardship, and was a denial to
the poor man of thosie rights which persons in a more affluent sta-
tion were permitted to enjoy. (Hear, hear, hear.) There waits
thoe when this emigration of artisans was deemed injurious to
the country, but by experience it was found otherwise, and it
was found that no laws could prevent the emigration, so
that it might as well be done openly and with the sanction of the
laws as surreptitiously. Besides, it should be remembered that
the legislature itself, on one occasion, made provisions for etnigra.
ton to the Cape and the West Ind ics, of the unemployed portion of
i our population. And it was, he contended, only such artisans as
were unemployed here, and as could not procure adequate compen-
sation for their labour, that would have the attachment% of home
and seek a maintenance in foreign countries. (Hear, hear.) it
was an undeniable tact, that no artisans emigrated unless they were
unhappy here, or had the prospect of sonic great advantage in
another country, and such artisans had a right to transfer their la-
bour, which was their property, to any place, and to dispose of it
in whatever manner they pleased. But the chief ground on which
he rated the repeal of these laws was, that although they existed,
they existed only to be violated ; and as they were not respected.
they ought to be modified or repealed. More doubt might prevail
on the second point to which he directed their attention than on the
first ; namely, the removal of the existing restraints on the ex par- ,
ration of machinery. More evidence might perhaps he required on
this point before the House resolved on the repeal of this law. It
appeared to him at present that greater advantages would accrue
from the removal of the present restraints upon the exportation of
machinery than could possibly result from their eontinu-
anee. It was notorious that, notwithstanding the present laws,
machinery, the manufacture of this country, got abroad, not '
in such quantity, perhaps, as if it were sanctioned by law,
yet a great quantity of it was exported from this country.
Now, by the encouragement of such exportation by the le- '
gislature, meat increase would take place in the exportation, and
thereby a great augmentation made in this branch of the na-
tional industry. There was r.o article of thigh he knew that yielded
larger profit than the manufacture of machinery. The raw mate-
rial was purchased very cheap, and the profit upon it, in its menu- i
factored state, was greater than on any other species of manufacture.
Ile begged to direct the attention of the !loose to the circumstance
of a patent being taken out for almost every machine manufactured
hi this country, so that it was only necessary for a person to come
over and purchase a copy of the patent, and manufacture it in his
own country; whereas, if the manufacture of it took place in this
country, and was permitted to be exported, it would be preferred.
Front this and other views of the subject, it would appear, that, by
the existing laws upon it, we only shut ourselves out from a
large increase of national wealth, which would accrue to us were
these laws repealed. On the third part of the subject, namely, the
Combination Imes, it was necessary to say only a few words. The
great hardship of these laws consisted in not permitting tradesmen
who did not get a fair compensation fur thew labour, to consult
together in what manner they might best procure it. If they pre-
loomed to meet on the subject, they were immediately visited with
line and imprisonment, whilst their masters might agree to any
rate of wages for the tradesmen. Ile had in his possession docu.
' ments to shew that a meeting of master shoemakers was held, at '
which the wages of the journeymen were regulated. It was natu-
rally calculated to give great dissatisfaction that the masters could
'thus meet, and agree not to give more than a certain price, whilst
the working tradesmen were visited with the penalties of the law
(the law which wan said to regard rich and poor alike) if they re-
monstrated
and endeavoured to procure fair compeusation. Thai,
the masters were protected, and the men not. This would '
naturally create discontent, until it was altered. For his
part, he felt justified by experience in saying that the trades-
men did not become discontented, unless where they did not
receive an adequaw remuneration for their labour, or until '
they were driven to discontent by the extremity of distress. lie '
(Mr. H.) was inferno -1 by a Learned Gentleman, the Member for
Peterborongh (Mr. Sea:lett), that if all the statutes relative to the '
combination of tradesmen were removed front the Statute Book,
the common law of the land would be sufficient to repress any din.
content that might arise amongst the tradesmen. if so, we should
consider how long discontent prevailed from the existence of these
laws, and how easily it might be removed. as no necessity ex.
isted for them—as there was already a sufficient enforcement in
pre-existing laws, to check and control any riot or expres-
sion of unlawful discontent that might manifest itself.—
'l'hat a great tow of prejudice exists as to effecting any change in
the existing system, was quite manifest; for it was only the other
day that the Spitallields weavers negatived the removal of those
restrictions upon trade that most other artisans seem anxious to do
away. Ile merely stated this circumstance to show the ignorance
as well as the prejudice which prevailed upon the subject. Inquiry,
if granted, would open their eyes, and such barguins would be made
between master and servant, as to the price sat wages and continu-
ance of labour, as they could beat manage between them. IVithout
entering at this moment into any details, he thought he had %hewn
enough to jostify the appointment of a Committee. He hoped all the
interests affected by the existing laws would assist their Committee
by every possible information in their power to give, and that pro-
per
rigulantres should be entered into. Ile was aware that many
difficulties attendtal such an inquiry, but he hoped the Right Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Iluskiwion), who had lately taken so distinguished
a lead in uniettering our commerce, would cordially co-operate with
him (Mr. Hume), and others; and in such case he had no doubt of
their ultimate success. In the present state of knowledge, in this
country as well as others, difficulty and prejudice must shrink be-
fore it. Ile begged pardon for having °erupted so much of their
time (hear, hear,) and he should now conclude by moving for the
appointment ot' a Select Committee to inquire into the laws rela-
tive to enticing artificers from this country, or their voluntarily
leaving it ; the exportation of machinery ; and the combination
of joutneynten to raise their wages.
Mr. lICSK ISS(SN said he only felt It necessary to say a few
words, as it was not his intention to oppose the motion of the lion.
Member for Aberdeen. (If ear, hear.) At the same time that he
expressed his concurrence with the object of the motion, he by no
means pledged himself to any sweeping measure. Ile held himself
perfectly at liberty while in the Committee, to which he trusted
that every innirmatien would be brought forward. Ile concurred
with much of the reasoning of the Hon. 31entber ; and with respect
to the law restraining the artisan from carrying his industry and
talent where he ',levied, he entertained not the slightest doubt of
its impolicy. The former policy of our laws inclined otherwise;
but whatever the number of these lawn, or the periods of their dur-
ation, if they now be found unnecessary or wrong, they should no
larger remain upon the statute book. In this, however, as in all
other cases, the proofs of their propriety or impolicv must rest with
those who of irm either pmpototion. If they be found necessary,
the necessity, he contended, must grow out of the public interest,
and not out of private avrarigements ; in fact it must be a necessity
attaching to the whole community which could justify legislative
interference. L'pnn principle every man was entitled to carry his
intelligence and his acquirements where lie might think proper;
and if he found it more conducive to his comforts or the increase of
his income to carry them to another country, he should not be pre_
vented doing so, unless they could show some overruling necessity
to the contrary. Hence, upon the first branch noticed by the lion.
Member, it would be necessary in the Committee, in the first place,
to ascertain if any such paramount necessity existed ; and second-
ly, to see what regulations should be introduced to effectuate the
principle on which they were to proceed. For (himself, he firmly
believed that the law. as it stood at present, was a source of per-
jury, and ineffec:.ual as to the prevention of British skill and indits-
try finding its way to other countries. If the English artisan now
went to other countries, he wan balite to heavy penalties; and if lie
ventured to return, in many cases he not only lost his property,
but his liberty beside. Many a man, speculating on improving his
fortune, by removing to another country, would return to
thin, if he could do so with safety ; but as the law stood, he
was completely proscribed. Ile lar. IL) would rot disguise
the fact that several manufactories in France were superintended
by Emdislimen, and worked by English artisans, and there was no
doubt that many of those persons would gladly return to this coun-
try, upon not being able to realize their projects, it the law allowed
them. Such circumstance% required investigation; they demanded
alteration, and it would be for the Committee to say in what man-
ner the doubts and prejudices which were still entertained, could
he most effectually ciaared away. As to the second branch, name-
ly, the exportation of machinery, opinions were much more divided
than on the first he had noticed ; and he therefore doubted whether
a general law might not lead to inconvenience, in the event of be-
neficial discoveries by individuals. Still agreeing, as he fully did,
with the principle laid down by the lion. Member for Aberdem,
the eaportation of machinery could scarcely be prevented : it the
artist went to a foreign country, his skill brought with it every
necessary to procure it, either here Or in that country to which he
might have journeyed. There again he wished the l'ortimittee to
consider what measures would he moat effectual in allowing every
freedom to export without inflicting injury on our own coon-
try. Ile was well aware that the most cumbrous machinery
was exported from this country,and it was well worth while to con-
sider, it the extension of demand growing out of the allowing a
free export, would not more than compensate the private benefit
which the present law allowed. However, on that part of the
subject, as well its on the former, he should reserve entering into
any. detailed opinion, until he saw all parties on all sides offering
their views, and the facts by which they intended to illustrate and
support them. Now, as to the third branch of proper inquiry, the
Combination Laws, he felt it to be a question of great perplexity
and extent, if it were only from the quantity of industry which
must be expended in unravelling them. I 'pun principle, he thought
them bad ; and that s bile they were intended to prevent, they had

actually not only multiplied combinations (bear, hear, hear), but
suggested to the obieets or their vengeance the mode of escaping
them, and produced a double sense of the injury to which they
were exposed. Those Combination Laws interfered between the
employer and employed ; they prejudiced the labourer—they cre-
ated au inverse state of relationship between master and servant—
they produced jealousy, distrust, and discontent, in place 0f effect-
ing what they ought to do—annfort, confidence. and good-
will. ((tries of hear, hear, hear.) He therefore maintained, that
with a view to relieve themselves from interfering in this manner,
and in order to create a more moon:land wholesome state of fevling,
they should remove those laws from their statute books which were
useless and homer:Wee, because too odiously 01,tewlive•
hear.) For these IMAM% he thought they were bound to go into
the propeatod inquiry. lie was nut prepared (for want of the ne-
cessary information on the sohjett) to say with the Hon. 3lmtiber,
that the common law was enough to settle all disputes between
servant and master--althJugh, possibly, he might be right. But
this he would say, that when a workman undertook a umk, there
I should be wine summary law to punish hint few wilful neglect, or,
in other words, to compel hini to its performance. He v:33 aware
that if persona conspired to prevent others front working, except
at certain rates; the «minion law provided for that. Nothing could
be more desirable than that a Con.mittee of the House of Commons
should sift and investigate so important a subject. For himself, he
felt obliged to the Hon. Member for Aberdeen, for bringing this I
question before their notice--for no man was capable of expending
more seal and industry upon it. (Hear, hear.) In common with
that lion. .Ifember (continued Mr. iluskieson) I have to lament I
that his late lion. Friend (Mr. Ilicardo), and I may add, 1 hope,
my lion. Friend, is no longer able to give us the benefit of his in-
estimable assistance. No wan ever brought stronger powers of tea- I
mooing, or more acuteness of mind; to any subject, than lie did. In
all his public conduct, his sincerity was conspicuous, his singleness'
of purpose manifest ; his anxiety was always to do what was right;
he ever exhibited an inflexible determination to prosecute the best
intermits of his country, and he was an honour to this House
through the whole of his Parliamentaty career. (Hear, hear, hear.)
I lament that we have not the benefit of his valuable assistance.
hope that we may be to retain what is useful, clear away what
is not, and by so doing promote the interests of domestic and fo-
reign commerce. As 1 before said, Ido not hold myself pledged
to the total repeal of all those laws, but only to such as may be
most necessary for the security of our own interests. (Hear, hear.)
After a few words fain IllaBIRCII„ which were inaudible,

The motion WAS agreed to, and the following Gentlemen /swami
as the Committee:—Mr. Hume, Mr. Iluskissan, Mr. C. Grant,
Mr. S. Bourne, the Attorney. General, Mr. G. Bennet. Mr. Daw-
son, Mr. D. Gilbert, Mr. F. Lewes, Sir 11. Pamel, Mr. Phillips,
Mr. P. Moore, Mr. [quietist), Mr. S. Wortley, Mr. Egerton, Mr.
Pares, Mr. T. Wilton, Si? T. L. Achnd, and Mr. Hobhouse.

~ 1i pa ~. hreh his 11,
lewd... the repeal of
, 1 Lime-established i r
.end with. in emit
which wrie faro.,rs
.11 from the disposi., •i
oi the House last
treated as • parry si
simtrle:v the lay", '
i:
,if t .e present time.
appointment of n t,
determined whet hc,
not. He hoped, lo
p anne, of the law a
renwrnhered Iwo Sr
&scission, the circ
,
1 teat for not choirs'
mate of polilitill et`
when once the ram
1 TLe points which
s
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