The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1824-04-10 00:00:00

EXCISE LICENCES.

Mr. CURWEN prtsented a peution from Putrid', against the
excise bccotes.—Laid on the table.

ASSESSED TAXES.
Mr. al' N(3 presented a petition front tletkenwell, praying for
the repeal of the asserted taxes.--Ortlered to he on the table.

lIIDES AND SKINS.

Mr. ELLISON presented a petition from the tanners and cur-
riers of Nt.rhumb.sland, fur the repeal of the duties on hides and
sl.ins.-I..t'd on the table.
ATTORNEY'S TAX.
Mr. GRANT presented a petition front the attomevs of Ranh',
praying fur the repeal of the attorney's tax.—Laid on tl:e table.
FREEMASONS IN IRELAND.
- •

lir. PRENDERGAST prese nteda pet itio,;froi the Freemasons
of Connaught, praying to be put on the same rooting as English
Fris.4.issons..—Lnitl on the 'Able.

AGItIeIibTURAI. 11‘)ItSES.

M.-. I tENIS‘ tN presented a petition from the market-garden-
es* about Batter, a, staticg that three years ago the repeal of the
duties to: the agricultural horses took place, but that they, the pe_
titionsrs. *lre not included, and the tax on horses continued to L.,
Iturind to. them in au oppressive manner; they therefore prayed
that the rep..*l of that tax might be extended to them, their horses
ben* used as pltunzli-horsen.
lost A ItTllolt said a few words.

....... _
71:11;Cl lANCEItIa tit of the !Al:NE(161:R said, that if the
petition had bean presented to the Trnsury it might have under-
gone a sr.iisfoctory investigation, nag if it appeared that hones were
partly employed in agricultural purposes, they were exempt from
the tax, by the .1(1 of last year.
Alter some words from Mr, Ellis, Mr. Bright, and Mr. Curren,
the petition was laid on the table.
hl. 6. lIENNET presented a petition from Wm. Harrison,
a Monti focruar or kid gloves in imitation of the French. lie was
clio:ged with having smuggled the glove' which hr had manufac-
torast, on which an Exchequer process issued, and he had been,
io consequence. nearly ruined; the whole of the stock having
been centiemord. 'Pule persons who cut out the gloves, and made
them, were ready to swear to the facts. The Hon. Member wished
to know vduit 'area u. could be made to the petitioner under
these circuntstanem ?

The CII.INI EI.LOR of the EXCIIEQUER was entirely
ignorant of ...it: t'ut• ,tared in the 'petition, as they had not been
*fare the 7'rta.•ury r:i•tce he had belonged to it. /lc was no friend
to prohibi• :one, end be iptabdita to move for the repeal of that on
French glove!. ; tot he would reed the petition, and sce what relief
(void he afro' •'

,1:Y wished to know, if the tees paid to Juries
homer bad undergone any alteration • as the
to give a fee of two guini to the Jurors if

INCL. ND.
Sir 11. PAlt NELL derired t:.l;!..iw if it were the intention Of
the Right lion. Secreti:ry for Ireland to reLes the Insurrection Act
this year, or to avant n select tee o.i the F.taie of Ireland.
Mr. liN replied, ti.st he was then on the eve of his
deparnire for Ireland. and on hi. return rould be be ter able than
at pre.eni to rirrly to the questions proposed by the lion. Member.
Mr. (Tint EN meted for certain returns relative to the
quantity of salt used for agiculturvl i.urpones during the years
1823 and 1821.

Mr. I,EITESTER. in supporting the milder, expressed a
hope that the remaining part of the salt tan would he repealed, in
conformity to the promise made by the Chancellor of the Exile-

quer.

DI7TV ON RUM.

. .
Mr. G. ELLIS presented a petition from Mr. George Francis,
of Whitechapel-tord, a rectifying distiller. The petitioner prayed
for permission to convert rum into British spirits. Whilst the
present high duty was continued on ruin, and ,hut on spirits
roxitufactured in this country was reduced en the low rate of two
shillings, it vas in vain to hope for the antelioration of the present
condition of the West India interests. The effect of this high
euty was to withdraw the consumption of this article almost totally
from s.titland and Ireland, and in a very great degree from Erg.
land. Indeed dare was s greater quantity of rum in merchants'
stocks than there was any hope of demand for. It was not to lie
expeord that whilst st irks natlil be lammed at a rate of from five
to six shill:ngs a gallon. persons would be disposed to pay for
ruin ilic large vac? at which it we.s now prcottable. The prrtial
reduction pmposed by the l'hancellor of the Exchequer would rot
be available to any substantial relief. Ile hoped the House would
attend to the prayer of the talkie:Tv, which "multi give material aid
to the Wcet India interests, and would interfere with none but
toe already overlrenwn profas of ;be Et rl bh
Mr. HUME said that it was the duty of the Chancellor of
the Ex.retpea not to attend to the separate interests of the
panics • hoot an acquiescence to the prayer of this petition might
alliat, but to the general interests of all whom it may concern. T.
chew how the present high duty 111.011 rum operated, he would ad-
vert to the great talling-off that had trken place in the compara-
tive consumption of this article. taking the relative consumption
of two years a., the standard of conniabwel- In Itigland the
consumption had been, in one year 3.600.008 gallons. and last
rear it did not exceed 2,100,084/. In Si"tland, from 346,008 to
Vilt,000; and in Ireland the filling off had been so great as from
1,04/0,800 to 7,11e0. From the reduced duty on spirits manufac-
tured at home, a gallon couhl be procund at five shinny", whilst
a gallon of rum with the pr. sent duty varied from thirteen to four.
teen and fifteen shillings. This snout ant to an aboolitte denial of a
fair market and natural rent for West India rum ; fur with such a
disparity in the duty, it was only natural to expect
. that the con-
sunptilan should exclusively confined to home spirits.
. .

Mr. L. FOSTER said, thai the rompmison instituted by the
Honourable .Member—that which he drew between the relative
consumption of two years-Aid not proceed on a perfectly -fair
statement. The Honourable Member did not take two succoisive
years, but two between which there was an interval of fifteen years.
rhe reason that in the former of these yews the consumption of
rum amounted to one million of gallons vas, that in that year, in
consequence of an apprehended scarcity, distillation from grain was
discontinued. This explained the cause of variation in consump-
tion as r.gtmled Ireland. Ile would leave those Gentlemen con-
nected with England and Scotland to explain the causes which re-
spectively affected those countries in a similar way. (Hear.)
Mr. !WAIN explained.
Mr. BRIGHT considered the imposition of the present high
duty oa rum as at variance with the Iwinciples of free trade which
hod been so much vaunted. If the present system with respect to
this duty were continued, it would have the effect of destroying the
consumption of this &nickel together. '1 lie duty upon rum was as
high as a thousand per cent. With the present cheap rate of spi-
rits it was impossible it could compete with it. He was favour-
able to any measure which would have a tendency to procure a mar-
ket for tile Went India rum, and therefore was favourable to the
permission to rectifying distillers to convert it into British spirits.
Mr. E. ELLII'E expressed his intention of opposirg the bring.
ing up of the report, if a greater reduction was not proposed is this
duty. The reduction of le. Id. was totally insufacient for any
purpose of practical benefit. Ile complained that those engaged in
the West India trade were not sufficiently attentive to their
interests.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQIYER was not pre.
pry(' at that moment to enter into a discussion for which opportu.
tutees would offer on the bringing up of the report, and on future
stages of the Rill which related to the subject of this duty. The
coacession which had been made, though not a very large one, was
considered by those in the trade whom it mast concerned, as a great
bandit and relief. They would probably require a still
_greater con-
cession ; but that was the ease with all persons sho looked for con.
cessions. They always coveted something more than they got, and
he did not expect to be more fortunate with the persons with whom
he had consulted on the subject of this duty. Thus they had even
gone further than he did ; for he only spoke of the reduction as
a good principle to proceed upon ; whereas they admitted it to
be a substantial benefit and concession. The case was one of
great difficulty, and in which they should proceed with the utmost
coolness and circumspection. He was desirous of seeing the result
of what had been already done, before he would countenance the
adoption of new measures, in a ease where errors might be fatally
injurious to the very interests they were anxious to serve. It had
been said that the West India merchants hail hc,n inattentive to
their affairs ; if an, that was their affair, not Iris ; he felt that he
had not been wanting in that regard and attention to them which
his situation and their importance required. (Har.)
Mr. Is. It. ELLIS appmved of the course re.ented by his Right
Honourable Friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer). In his
opinion his Right Honourable Friend was disposed to act on sound
principles for the promotion of the West India interests.
After a few words from Mr. Itenstat. and Mr. G. ELLIfs, the
petition wan ordered to lie on the table, and to be prnactl.
Sir G. CLERK presented a petition from the candle-makers of
Edinburgh, against the duty on candles.
CO3l lIINATION LAWS.

I. Mr. If I'M presented a petition from the shoemakers of Bury,
an l.aneshir•, against the combination laws. The petitioners stated
reveral instances of members of their fmternity having been act:.
tcnced hi the tread-mill for a hr,•aeh of these law.; hut he was not
prepared to say whether their committal took place for conspiracy
only, cr far actual assault. lie vcsiented a similar petition front
three pscsuns wirn had been imprisoned under the same laws, one
of wh.ou had been sentenced to an impris”nment of eighteen
wombs. The lion. Member presented a third Petition to the rame
of xt, from certain artisans of lite:amid' and Deptford.—lleferred
to the Committee of Anisans.

Ir. TI EH N EV l ;t4en....--ILiTa petition from the weavers of Knares-
borouvh, against the combination laws.
Lord A LTllfitt moved for a return of all sums advanced
during the last year, by the several grand juries of Ireland, on grand
jury presentments, distinguishing the sums sev..rally advanced
under the Constabulary Au, the Peace-pretervation Act, the Yo.
lice Act, &r.

t!

they pre a verdict for the Crown's if not, they mil) received a proceedings were a great measure sunsended for a time by their
guinea. i opposition. Ilia Wert was, to give educnitton to the., willing to
Mr. PEEL said, that nn such practice as that alluded to ex- receive it in the least objeetiorahle shape. /le was satistied that no
kited now. it had been altered. I mmicy could be better bestow, d titan in educating the Irish people.
Aklman SMITH end Mr. Haste said a few words. and raising them to a condition more lined for the enjoyment of
The petition was then Isid on the table. i their rights. and the di,eharge of their theirs.
t/n the motion that it should be printed, Mr. BERRIES op.: Mr. ISUI'TERIVORTII said. the lion. itlember for Aberdeen
posed it, as containing charges against the Commissioners of the was mistaken. No such controversy had taken Tigre us be had
Customs, which were groundless. it was (Mil,", to the conduct lotted respecting the circulation of ow. scriptures. With respect to
of the petitioner himself that the guods load been condeninal, the question before the !louse, be OF Butterworth) was decidedly
and the trial was a most impartial one. conrwiced that it would be mischievous to give the people of Ireland
NEW St/I-11l WA EFS. ;my hot a Scriptural CdUlllflllll. Kr.owledge. without morals.. could
Mr. BENNET moved for a return of the quantity of dollars be only productive of evil. The petition of the Catholic Itiallops
imported into New South Wales, in the years Int- its:*!, sod he considered a reflection on t'i.ristianity and the word of Cod.
111:2 ; with the amount at which they wire purchased by (invent. (Ilear.) Ile would repeat that it was a grout libel on the sold of
meet, and the price at which they were paid in the Colony. Ile God. (Bear, hear.)
moved Mr tilts return, as he had untlers•ood that these doll-rs were I The resolution was then agreed to.
issued by the s. Coectntr.tut at tour shillings, but that they /n the next resolution—
would consent to receive then, hark at three abillings. This vari• I Mr. 111751 E rose to explain. The Catholic clergy were not de-
anon in value was atter.deti, necessarily, with the titmost inconve. shuns that the people should he quested without religion. But
nie ace, and a hich he hoped sonic means and resolutions would be they were of opinion that the unrestricted perusal of the Bible night
adopted to correct. I induce the uninformed laity to imbibe opinions highly. injurious to
Ihe CIIANt:ELIABI of the EN CIIEQU ER admitted that ! them, unless it was aecompanictl by proper coninientarics.
great inconvenience must nereasarily arise from sneh it state of cur-! Mr. G. BENNET said it was quite unjustifiable to cast such
rency as had been adverted to by the lion. Member. Ile begged to' reflections on the Catholic Bishops as the lion. Member for I/ over
inform the hose that measures were in progre •s to prevent the in- ; bad.
equalities at present prevailing in this stitch:la of coot, and he flat- i Mr. B'ETTERAVORTII disclaimed all intention of throwing
tcred himself tliat the result would he satisfactory. (Bear, hear.) j any aspersions on the conduct of the Catholic Clergy ; but the
Mr. A ItERCIIOM BY preset.ted a petitior. from the inhabitants importance of Scriptural education was unquestionable. A cons-
of Caine araihst slavery. 1 ertrative view of the morals of the lower orders in Catholic and
Ptotestant States would at cnce prove the fact.
Mr. MONIIi said, that neither the Catholic nor the Protestant
Bishops objected to Scriptural education, according_ to their re-
spective °piranha of what constituted it. h was well known that
some of the English Clergy had ribbed to have the Bible circu-
lated onli with the l'aterhuan.
laird A LTHORP asked, when the papers he had moved for
at the commencement of the Session would be ready for delivery?
Three weeks ago he was told they were on the point of being
produced.
Mr. 110C1,1SURN stated. that the rapers were in such a shape
as required them to be remodelled, and that had caused the delay.
WESTM I NST Ell ABBEY.

hi the Resolution for granting 53,090(. to purchase Mr. Anger-
stein'e collection of paintings,
Mr. HUAIE, having referred to a statement of the President
of the Board of l'ontrol, that he recollected when the &drills-
j sleet to iVestminster Abbey was very easy, and of scarcely any
I expense, wished to know whether any illumine had been
taken to cretin the public the right of seeing the mono-
mints in Westminster Abbey, which had been erected at a great
expense to the public, and were conaequent!y the property of the
public- Ile understood that some negociation had been pending
on the subject, and he wished to know the result. It was mate.
vial, tow that the public were going to give a large sum of money
tor the purchase of pictures for the fonnatior, of a national gal-
!env, to ascertain how they were denied the sight of the monis-
nients they had raised to the memory of eminent individuals who
had served their country. If an abuse had crept in by which some
had assumed the right of selling to others the perquisite of admit-
tirg the public, it should be inquired into. In every part of the
country aspersions were cast on the Dean and e'llapter of West.
minster, on account of this tax on public airioxity ; and he con-
ceived therefore it was the duty of his Majesty's Ministers to avail
themselves of thin opportunity of ascertaining whether there was
kr y prospect of relief e
An Honourable MEMBER, a hose name we could not learn,
suggested, that, as it was desirable the gallery of pictures should
be in a central situation, and as the lease of Marlborough House
would expire in four or five years, that should be chosen. The
site and gardens were admirably adapted for the purpose. Ile
trusted, therefore, that no renewal of the lease would be granted
without consideration.
Mr. W. %V YNN said, he certainly remembered when but a
snatll number of monuments were excluded from the public, and
they might Le seen foe sixpence. Now every part of the Abbey
as closed, and the price of exhibition was two shillings, lie was
not aware of any moms of redress, though he regretted the exclu-
sion of the public- The Ikan and Chapter had a right to exclude
if they pleased to exercise it, and the Executive Government had
no power to interfere.
Mr. BANKES aside a few observations, inaudible in the
ll
gaery.
Sir J. WROTTESLEY stated, that formerly Poets' Corner
was open to the public, and a passage was allowed across the
church, which formed a material convenience to the inhabitants
Westminster. They were now obliged to make a considerable
circuit round the Abbey. Formerly the whole space between the
organ and the west door and the north aisle were open. The
only part closed was King Henry the Seventh's Chapel, and six-
pence only was charged for that. The other day he went into the
Abbey for the purpose of making a passage through it. Ile was
met by the verger as soon as be entered, and told lie must pay two
shillings to see the Abbey. lie asked if he might not go into the
church, and under that pretence went towards the choir. He then
walked about, and endeavoured to make hie way out at Poet's.
corner; but the verger told hint that as his object was evident, he
should go out by the same door br which he had conic in. (A laugh.)
These charges were a series of paltry and scandalous extortions
(Hear, hear.) lie was not inclined to use severe Epithets, but this
was a case that deserved the hardest. This noble and ma,gnitieent
building, the pride and boast of the country, was let out to show-
men, in order to make a trifling addition to the income of the Dean
and Chapter. When large sums were again to be invested in the
hands of the clergy, it was important to inquire how they had con-
ducted themselves hitherto as to the trusts reposed in their hauds.
Mr. G. BENNET asked whether it was not possible to remove
the monuments out of the Aobey ? It wculd be a fit subject of en-
quiry for a committee, in order that the monuments might be re-
moved from the power of a scandalous set of money-dealers, and
placed somewhere within the view of the public at large.
Mr. AIONCK had some doubt whether the Dean and Chapter
had a right to keep the doors of the church shut against the public.
Before the Reformation the churches were open to all who chose to
resort there for purposes of devotion or curiosity. He trusted the
scandalous distinction between this country and the Continent as to
these matters would soon be &toilettes".
An Honourable MEMBER whom we did not know, observed, in
defence of the Dean and Chapter, that in proportion as the attention
of the public had been drawn to the monuments in the Abbey, an
expense had been created to watch the visitors, and prevent muti-
lation.

The resolution was then agreed to.
TURKEY COMPANY.

On the resolution respecting the allowances to Consuls and Vice-
Consuls abroad,
Mr. II UII E said, that as Government were about to put the
system of our Consuls abroad on a proper footing, he hoped their
attention had been turned to the conduct of the Turkey Company.
Ile was aware it was a delicate question to interfere with chartered
right., but if evils arose to the commerce of the country, there
could be no doubt that the system should be changed. The Turkey
Company enjoyed the right of appointing the Consuls within the
limits of their trade, sod no merchant could obtain redrew; from
Government for any wrung he might suffer. His only course was ,
to pet7lion the Turkey Company. So enormous wire the charges
of the Consuls of this Company, that their fees alone amounted to
more than the whole freight and expenses of an American vessel.
The consequence was, that the Americans were dislodging our
trade up the Mediterranean.
Mr. Secretary CANNING said, there was unquestionably an
anomaly arising from the power of the Turkey Company. The
attention of Government had been turned to it, and they were fully
sensilde of the propriety of extending to COIIMICITe, in every di-
rection, tl:e same kind of protection.
The resolution was then &geed to.
CHURCH BUILDING.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then moved that
I the House should resolve itself into a Committee on the Church
Building Acts.
Mr. HOBIIOUSF, begged to know whether the forms of the
House would allow him to move the Resolutions of which he had
given notice in the Committee.
The CIIANt'EI.IiOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he knew
not as to the Ihm. Demleman's Resolutions ; he knew that his own
could only be moved in the l'cornittee.
The Speaker then left the Chair, and the !louse resolved itself
into Contst l i tttttt

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he should
not hare thought it necessary to have troubled the House with
many observations on this subject, bad thine not been some
remarks made at the time he first acquainted the House with
his lotto-aim. in propose to Parliament a grant fur the purpose
of littiltlieg additional churches. lie contested that he was a
gnoil deal surprised ut the opposition manifested to that motion,
and more at the reasons assigned for the opposition. lie had
not expected, indeed, that those who dissented from the doctrines
and Msripline ot the Church of England would be very anxious to
pronmte a proposition of this kind ; but he had no idea that it
would have been textixl even by those who dissented from the
chervil, that there W..% any their g objectionable in principle to ask
these to etimilinte so far to the notional establishment an to provide
titatm,, stirmosi: g the fleet • sity trade out, to enable the tricot.
1,, r., Cie ; hit rch ttiattt TI ligion, service. lie lotd thought that
;a/ nLe rot, Citrintianity have consideri d a proposition
ti, itotn Sr the t'iseliility of tlat e liLtl, at present, no means of
ere Santee, a propmition not only not objectionable,
gist,: et intell. It lied rim mitred into his iniagi.
;••,, .to waehl have renre,ei led a proposal for building
:pi' t :to ~fir.,. a. approa; almont to -
blasitheaty
I ~-.) ;11. 4. (Lee were eoulats in I.4;:ti minds an to thr tali.
; nay. lie would not mithriake to define it then,
ran the first time that he had he,ad t!t.tt to give titc means
if e'otiling rebotons worship was biasplit,Letin. Meat% hear.)
Ile was aware Met this charge sea accompanied with a remark.
elm certain twit s ought to Weep:AM, instecil of this appropriation
tht tr p endue,. It eight have been said lie was inconsts.mit in
wtf:i.ri-g the grievultre to retrain, slide lie proposetl the erection of
new ehttr; :he e tight even ha% e been called I. porritical in
taking I het (nurse, but it 'passed hi, humble understanding how he
eantlii be eit;,ig,ii with lift•phenty. Ilin nit ration was. haring MO Ob.
.liela which he ~hncld ieltet. The first sus to tacilitate
cot nil:ohs- on religions rtot,hip ; the it.ottind to remove a particular,
grievaiti,... I : e preferred the hit ;yr because a posit:re goof! was gained,
while the pie.,tire of the tax init.:lit he removed at ;mother period. '
If if, 1,01 o•ition stated Vtie true, it would go to do away all est -
hbnitca to:tun:Kn. And if it were ill he lad down that (Dissenters'
were not to support it, pin must go the eat( nt to which lie allotted.
In fact, the lit inciple would go Ill.:Ai:1.4 ai public grants, inasmuch
en every spa itic intuvieatal was not Ittti,eliced by the general outlay
olsimmy. renlica m the f.11i.)14.4 of Pissente;,, he jutl;;,il
of them es he did by himself. The I Intro. voteil every year a sum,
though small, for the education of the Irish Priestletna ant!
of the Olisenters, but nobody ever of jetted to either, because all
the community had rot teCCITCCI P! direct benefit from the rate..
When he called fox a vote of NINA/ last year for chinches iu

po;;,,

:el 0,11

Scotland, no n'Jjes•iiton was made to it; on the contrary, it tees re.
ceived with *Hsu: e. So far then the principle was the same. lie
admitted, however, elat there slinteal be a necessity for calling oo
the liou, to incur do. t xpense—
Mr. Ii0111110C4E—" To find some mode."

The CI i ANCEELOR of the iiXt*IIF.QIY ER knew of no mode
beyond some ass:at:wee tram the politic purse. It appeared that a',
great nember of persons were without the means of attending the
church warship. Many of them, it was said, were lOineenters; and
that others, from age mad infirmity, model not and could not attend :
but it appeared that in one marlin quarter there was not room in
the churches for mire titan one out ea. every seven; and that was a
state of things which should not he allowed to exist. The immense
accumulation of population outstripped all possible means foe the
parish to accommodate suet a mass of people, many of whom were
poor, and it would be unfair to have them without the fair chance
of moral instruction. Parliament was bound to attend to their in-
terests. In lat es where churches were built, the people flocked to
them, and derived there every comffirt and consolation. A Chris.
tian Parliament would neglect their duty if the moral insteuction of
the people were not carefully provided for; they were charged with
the interests oldie poor, and they should attend to them. That was his
object, and the object of those with whom he had the honour of
acting. l'runi what had been done, added to that which lie now
proposed, the most sanguine hopes might be entertained of its 'Am-
ens. Ile did hot mean to say this grant would complete his object;
but it would do essential good, and that was all that could be ex-
pected at the present. It appeared that the million already granted
exceeded what was expected from it, and in place of iffi churches
and 140,000 people ac • modated, the churches were nit, and ac-
commodation for 13:401.10 persons. A great deal has been done in
aid of that million by Protestant professors, and no less than
2011,000 L was sub.icribed, which necessarily increased the accom-
i modation for the public. Whether the sum expended was
one million, or one million and the 200,0018. of private sub-
scription, the principle was the same; it was one of charity and
good-will, and chewed that the professors of Protestamisoi were
anxious to provide places of worship for themselves, es well as
their poorer neighbours. It was therefore unjust to charge the
professors of Protestantism with supineness towardst he interests of
the church. It was said that many
!fine churches were built, which
very few contend ; but that again he thought a most unjust
charge. The service of those churches was attended by crowds,
even to overflowing, and if more churches were built, the overflow
would increase, lie had &statement in his hand from Blackburn,
in Isneashire, where the people were poor, and were they on that
account to be denied the means of enabling them to attend the
service of the church ? in the new church at Blackburn, more than
one-half the pews were set, and he tuintitted that free seats should,
as much as possible, be provided ; but still he thought the letting
pews wait a very legitimate means of support to the clergyman.
There were three services melay aerformed, and all very respect-
ably attended. In Trinity Chapel, Bath, the new church was
also well attended ; at Glamorgan, in Wales, the same was to be
said. At Binningbain, and in other places, the congregations
were numerous, and this statement concluded by saying, that
when the service was well performed, and the beats free,
there would be found no want of full congoegations. (Hair, hear.)
In Nouitigham, the report stated that the free seats in St. Paul's
were taken by storm, and always well attended. In Portsea,
in Chatham, persons crowded to the new churches before the doors
were opened, and many never before seen at a place of worship were
sewn at these churches. So much for the charge, that no persons
frequented these churches: and who would say that money thus
expended was not well bestowed ? (lieu, hear.) The people did
cure for the church, and would attend public worship wherever the
opportunity of doing so was afford..d to them, as in the cases be had
just mentioned. l'he church of llransgrove (situated in a neigh-
bourhood tilled with poachers and smugglers), was attended with
the happiest effects, owing to the great exertions of a pious clergy-
man and his amiable wife. Many of' those persons now regularly
frequented the church, and had improved in their lives and morals,
in consequence of the erection of new churches. Instances if this
kind need not been multiplied; those already stated were the best
proof of the great advantage resulting from the former grant of Par.
liament. Another grant would extend the blessings and benefits of
religion to the people, and • liberal, much less a Christian Puha-
ment, would not treat the question as one of mere pounds, shillings,
and pence. Let it be recollected that those grants assisted the Este-
blndied Church, besides producing the annforts of religion.—the
only solid comforts which well regulated minds could find in this
world. Much was already done by private individuals, and he
expected more, and therefore he only proposed the vote of aOO,OOOl.
at present. He only asked Parliament to contribute something
to an object of importance to the well-being of the State, and he en.
tertained not the slightest doubt that Parliament would give their
sanction to this grant, called for a legitimate pat and which
would be fairly expended. The Right lion. tpme
Gentleman then
moved, that Exchequer Bills to the amount of 500,000 L should be
issued to the Commissioners thr building churches under the regu-
lations now existing, and which may be further framed on this
subject.
Mr. lIOIIIIOI'SE observed that he was fully aware of the im-
portance of the subject, and if a necessity for building churches
were made out he should be the last man to oppose it. He stood
there as the representative .4 Westminster, and lie knew that in op-
posing this grant he consulted their feelings anti their interests. The
Right lion. Gentleman seemed to think we were very rich ; he
seemed not to know what to do with the public money ; but if he
looked at the petitions on the table be could find what the people
generally stated to he their wants. His subject was one of great
delicacy ; and wishing to guard himself against niisinteroretation,
he should follow the 'tight lion. Gentleman. Without public
grants, he thought the church, highly beneficed as it was, could
provide for the graduel building of chtuches. As to the grant for
Scotch churches, it was wholly beside the present question. In
Scotland the Presbyterians provided churches for themselves, and
they had no endowments. In this country the case was different;
and he asked was there a single petition for new churches ? Not
one ; and would it then be said that there was any deficiency of reli-
gious feeling ? On the contrary he believed it was on the increase, but
not since 11117, nut since the commencement of the revolutionary war
in France; all that happened without any call for new churches. Since
1817 he found there were 13 applications for new churches; but that
was natural enough, for let it only be known that tl.e Government
had money to expend, and many applications would be made for it.
He believed that there were some places in which there was a deli-
ciesey of churches, and in those places let the deficit be supplied
It was stated the other evening, that no less than 133,000 persons
wetewithout means of being accommodated, and he had taken sonic
pains to inform himself on the subject, and he found that such a
statement was a very great exaggeration. Many of the churches,
lie knew, were thronged ; and in St. James's, he was informed, that
a person must apply seven years beforehand in order to get a pew.
St. George's, Hanover-square, was also filled ; but then there were
six chapels of ease, one of which he had lately entered ; but lie
would not then name it, lest its Character might be injured.
He did not think the want of religious acanuniadation was at all as
great as was stated in the papers before the House; and for the few
churches that were affirmed to be full, there were niany not full,
and in which accommodation was to be found. Ile could, front
his own observation, give the Committee three cases: the first was
St. George's ('hapel, Westminster. Ile would mention these in-
stances to show the error of the Right lion. Gentleman, who bad
slid the grant was founded upon necessity, as there was no religious
accommodation. He certainly took his example% from Berkshire
and remote districts for this. He argued front those places upon
which he could, from his own experience, rely. He would next
mention the parish of St. Ann, ‘t'eatruinster. It was alleged by
the documents upon the table, that the deficiency of religious ac-
commodation bete extended to fourteen thousand persons: this
was, strictly speaking, an exaggeration • there were no chapels
of case in the parish, ant there were 1,400 houses ; there was
always plenty of room in the climates ; and, as he was informed,
there was no complaint whatever of the wart of religious educa-
tion and that was not • tact which was stated by the papers sub_
mitred to the II ouse. He nt at made an inquiry into the state of
St. Janies'a, Westminster. The deficiency of religious acannium
elation extended in this parish to 26,3110. In this chapel there was
also room for many more than attended ; there was a new chapel
built in the parish, that of St. Phillip—this was not full, lie'
found, on inquiry, there were several chapels of ease. He next in-
geared into the state of St. Martin-in-the. Fields. The deficiency
of religious accommodation extended in this parish, according to
the papers before the House to 23,7;.0 persons. Acalinmodation in
this church was most tally had ; there was not the least difficulty. In
the parish of St. Margaret, the deficiency was said to reach to
20,869. This church was not full. Here were three cases which he
himself could answer for. There was also another church (we did
not catch the name), in which the deficiency was said to reach to
11,8tV persons. This church was not full, 'and when a sermon was
to be preached in it, for the purpose of bringing a crowd, it was
far from being tilled. lie was informed there were place* for more
than lOU, and no difficulty in getting room. lie had thus shown
there was no complaint of accommodation in the six parishes of
Westminster. 'There was no deficiency in the parishes of St. Paul's,
or of St. Clement. There was another point to which he begged
the attcmion of the Coniniittee' when this subject was to be con-
! aidered : the wait or acconimodation was found to exist in the
parishes where the great and popular preachers were • it was cum_
1 laine!' of principally in the parasite? of St. James and St. George,
but this complaint was equally applicable to the dissenting chapels,
where popular preachers were heard ; as, for instance, in the flit.-
, !renting chapel of St. Stephen, It'esminetcw. In this chapd, and
some others, no mat was to he had ; but we ought not for this
! reason, build chapels far the dissenters ; we ought not to do
so ; it was our duty to support the established church. The
application would therefore Le as reasonable from the dissenters
, of Vresttilinstre, as from the membets of the established church.
I lie would never consent to vote money to obtain room for the dis-
senters, as they would most as• erectly tart vote it to procure room
for us, Flom all he could learn upon the subject, and he had
made many inquiriea, lie was convinecd there was tic deficiency of
attention to church service. lie Itail net made his inquiries from his
particular friends ; this would cat be tzar; he had applied to
strangers, and to persons of ad palliest descriptions ; and
he leamed groins them that every chow of persons, every respectable
ahopkeeper, took his fsmily to church every sunday; that lie would,
in fart, bo disgraced and ;mimed at if he did rot do so. ( Hear.)
He therefirre felt hintaelf a strudel in the assertion, that the want
of religious accommodation was not ...eh, sit least as far as the city
of IVc stminster, which he had the bonier to reprera nt, was con-
cerned. Ile would now rot ice one assertion of the !light Honour-
able Gertleman : he said he %ea• him sufficiently sanguine to do all
the good, but w e ought to do all the good in our power ; and it
es
d say,doought alp,
I the 'll' toe'lliini' be
ra in e chnils:ihisor:lLe:utit:tbar:ti
uk":l.:.depeihrceni
expenditure
a,g'
sill !,.ul.tfhe:rtierl distant:...ijol I
niro: 1 rich!dtcl
hiswea
.tt
lawir
ii‘n:raEcti•ttol:iiivb: ce: grout
it, voluntary
el,
;r
jotyibfwii
iluonldne but he
nuocflewgen takendin
thei:lt
itlf,-I:l7lleilic.rcititad,iheenti.:wimi:iineinidtnehuhietr;al
tat write% The churches hitherto Kilt gave accommodation to
but 153,0110, and yet these churches cost ate million. The sum of
halt a million required at present, would tallied accommodation but
to 77,0ffil persons, and yet it was rooked and stated by the doer.

could by athwart!,
Sir :k I. tti . It II)1.1
•in the Court of lixch
practice lied been to