The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1824-03-02 00:00:00

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- olls triefulbe speech ; but when he heard what had taken place, he was
st c'l"tim was
made
to
the
contrary, it
was
bat
to be
wmdeeed at
attracted
he said o
he d„„lned whether his gon. and Learned Friend had
see the statement in the --per. As soon as he had read
that he met it by instant denial. Perhaps the feeling that the leo- it,
~...0.
Omit excited, or the expression in which. he conveyed _ it, wash in to
ad te hear this statement eheered, becauee if he hail been esked
(Crice of " limn hear," from the Opposition.) He was 1
to .•perate, and one which, on reflection, he would not are
at to have given his opinion, he should have declared that he believed
(killed all that was imputed to him in the report.
leliJacePeaLusettonPedtbeetreLoollaas lakte eetbr contaaraimuyntaaaenteote4to.aellailentedaelheYeeit thereport was not correct, though his Hon. and Learned Friend
to be injunced sod unjust ; and it was not to be wonticreel had d tulle
f edetalas complaint upim the too greet facility with which too-
UL that instioultt have felt ands poken indignantly on hearing such His MAI. and Learned Friend, hewever, haul stated, that he had
a charge prefaced against him, after so many years of merits and e
services. (Cheer, from the Ministerial iten(lide)
La (len I) happened to promo some inform:Man
•upon nee subject.
ei ear his rifted) " on his sleeve, for lows to peck at."
He might not eat; were heard before the Lord Chancellor. Ole (the noneitor...
have epee too sensitively alive to what he believed to be unjustinht lie knew that two
complained to the lord Chancellor, that after his I lonour lied de-
years ago his Honour the Vice-Chancellor had
nem:tent on his conduct ; but if to be too sensitive on such a sub-
not was a fault, it should be remembered that it was only an excess
day berme his Lordship. Th. Chancellor said, there was nothing
eided a motion, the same motion was frequently heard the next
le right feeling, and should therefore be not too harshly dealt with.
_n.
It had been just intimated to him, that the papers which contained
requited that his lordship should establish, as a condition in re-
cellar's the Act of Parliament to prevent it. The V ice-Chan.cellor then
the daily report which formed the foundation of the lord Chan-
cellar's remarka, had been only put into his hands as he was going b nig a motion, the signature of two (counsel, as it sees specified
into Court might in the Act relative to an appeal. The Chancellor said it was im.
.
hive produeedTbethataustddroenogilenfcridmmioenntawchaicedh proin vhoiksedmitnd
he u.-ifor. possible he could attempt to insist upon any such condition,
tunate expeessiuu which was the subject of this night's discussion. because the impoeition of it was not warranted either by law or
It was now manifest that the statement of the lion. Gentlemen was the practice of the Court, for, if at motion was in the first instance
nor that on which the herd Chancellor had commented; and be. hood before the Master of she Rollo the signature of two Counsel
tween the Lord Chancellor and the lion. Gentleman there was a was not necessary, and, therefore, though the Vice-Cloncellor come
middle point in which the error lay. That error was the mierepre- pelained Mementoes in cues of bankruptcy, in which the signature of
,ematiun of the speech of the lion. Gentleman. This explanation counsel was not required, the Lord Chancellor said lie could not
t 'tempted hint from the applicability of any harsh remark wheel require it, because the practice of all
.bie predecessors had been not
itect Lye Chancellm might have pronottneetle The llon.tientleeni 'la require it. li is •lionourable and loathed t nend had apero.
fed clewed himself from any imputation on him, fully to tile settee peiated to himself expressions which he had not used. The Lord
faction of the house and of the country. It was unnweesary, (ehencelloa was not speaking of him d,- persona. The Honourable
tier-re:, to go further; and now that it had appeared it was Members around his Honour:dee and loarnea Frieed, who had
Let to his thesteh, but to n neereptesemation of it, that the ob. joined in cheering the eulogy pro:mune:el upon him hey the Honour-
jeoionat le phrase was applicable, lie would ask the HOW. henthe7, able and Learned alert:bee for Ifircheliwa (Mr. Broughem) had
in cendotte, if that nthrepresetitatiou was not cakainged te excite not MIN fervently expreued their high pentium, of his lionourreile
in a i-
Le the ruino of the Lao ciwthretinr a eerrealamding orieguation and inumed Friend's character than lie belt. He folly coneuvrol in
to that .tai, h he so properly felt aunt expressed that night, on the those dorm, which were not, which could not be too loud i
euppoisiti el that he was the object of the expression which was so !lapse of the unspotted iritegrity of his Honourable and Learned
Friend. He believed that no num was loss capable of speaking
eerily i etpraicable to him. Una« thosecircumetancest, as the Orme what was not true—no inert was lees capable of making r. public
" ea'e aecaa""ed by a misaPT"lwasia" which am
not "elibtd ; question the vehicle of a private attack «Cheers.) Thekr.owledge
if the Hoe. !Umber therefore persisted in pressing hia motion tot lie had of his lionourisble and beamed Friend's character, aeon all
a division, he would certainly vote against it, and more partite- he
atudioudy careful not to say ram nor less than the truth,
tarty, as the Hun. Gentleman had set bine:elf night in the quieten
of the House allff of the country. (lieu, hear.)
called from him, as the moment he read the report, the ejaculation I
• Mr. BIG )iftellAM nose.—lf the poly teemed his Hon. Friend that eve dotibted that his Honourable and loomed Friend had used
prowett motion wasa
,the expressions imputed to him. lie exclaimed at rune, " I doubt
(Mr. Abercromby) in bringing forward the
h that he said so." He contended then, that he had exculpated the
to obtain a triumph over the lord Chauellor,
beenas -et . Noble lonl (Loud eries of " nonce") if he had not been fortunate
defence of himself. the object of his motion had uralrt:ad7
gli to bring the honourable Gentlemen. opposite to that con.
complished, for his triumph over the Lord Chancellor, and b
vindication of himself, were complete. (Cheers. Without
which Without refer. .elusion. he would leave them to conic to what conclusion they might
think It,t and he mined they would allow him to (la so also. His
were made, he must say with great (airtime, with great candour,
enee to the statement of his Hon. Friend, the a 1 eimensee, and Learned Anne,' cormilained of a personal attack
and not • little of judiciousness, in defence of the Lord Chan- mid he agreed with hiro, that if a judge was to have the right ad
Milano to attack any Member of the profession who practised in
ctilor, fully established and sustained his vindication. Thesead-
his Court. the consequence must lo that the bar would be thrown
teased. 5.3 which were very humble and very submissive, could
into a state of prostration, degree:ohm, and humiliation, to which
net justify or excuse the conduct of the Lord Chancellor,
int) honourable man could stoop; and he assured the House that he
thought they might be in rime degree available as an extertua-al.
tiro tie it. however these admissions might so serve to extenuate, would never co-operate in the azeomplishroent of any such result.
I or Judge in existence hear, hear.) if he supposed
they could not surely be corsitiered as a substantial defence iim lie wtfuld never amiat Hear, a Purla"e for 'my Cuancolior
the case of a breach of the privileges of the house, none glaring
and wire idgeant than any to which, within his recolleetieu. the lotlfultv.ttb.e
aland Chancellor had used the ex cessions comlained
1 ntit:mortal sopert, he would support the motion; but
attention uf the House had been calletb.
protection a the eentracter ofhislion. Friend thenV:„o,%, htedbe , he litts setidied that the Noele lord lied Spoken not el
uted ersottl,
I ,e, but of the paper he held in his hand. That paper imp to hd
•Itattll etenticumapeeeheo.b:er—tbasetd ebbriftie: thwebiceeitil tibettadienaloatay esoarlho knew" loniship the authorship of the (Maya in the Court of Chancery,
lie (the Solicitor-Ga-
ud hie Loidahip refuted the calumny.
him—men which even "the shadow of a shaele" had never mwed,
,
and which the Lord Chancellor of England, in the present neral) repeated, he did net believe that a personal attack had been
was , intended. The Lord Chancellor's observoione were not a personal
instance, had so urjustly outdated. (Hear, hear.) g
. censure upon the speaker of a speech, but an answer to a speechnot
thin daracter. yet his hon. Friend would excuse hiniiiirtah '.:agyit—ig
I spoken. !netted of thnoe eemarks having been levelled against the
ieete was a higher consideration sail—the privileges of that blouse, Honourable and Learned niember for Caine, they were merely de-
which, if Swine:eon motion were not acceded to, would exist only sinned to set right a report in which the Honourable and Learned
te be lane -hen at by those who hate, and despised by those who
Member hod been grossly and egregiously misrepresented. lie
would subdue us, If this motion be rejected, " I say (said Mr.
(the i•t:elicitor-(ieneral) therefore absolved the Lord Chancellor of
Greu(;leun emphatically), the privileges of this House are only
the slightest breach of the respect due to the bar. he acquitted the
poweelle against the weak, but that they are impotent against the Noble and beamed Lord of having done any act that any Judge in
etroce." :laud cheers.) If the Editor of a Newspaper had come
'Westminster Hull, at any period of the history of the bar, would
neeorilla too Mo.: e..; ;toy thing, that occurred in that House,
have avoided as oppreesive or contemptuous towards that body.
weeld ha net inimediately be celled to the bar, and be made an-
Hone venion dames, tenures quevicissim.
swergbitrearthe freetioni of his commentary ? Would any of the
This was one of the subjects on which any man, any Judge might
gentle eaclacw which had hese" heard that night be `Hewed bin' as he expected to shew an infirmity of mind ; and were thelHouse—was
an awiilaldt defence? Would it be regarded as a suflicicut defence hisytionourable and Learned Friend prepared to say that any in.
for liim to say that he wrote it in a moment of irritation—that lie h i.r that might be instituted and conducted in any manner, ought 1
thomeht the privileges of the press hail been roughly touched ? not to hurt the feelings or wound the sensibility of a Judge?',
Weer• hear, and laughter)—that the remarks were male hastily,
The lord Chancellor had found himself held up in the public
and that- thety.eight flours afterwards perhaps he would not have prints es guilty of a perversion of justice as the author of
written them. Would such excuses be adduced in vindication of
, miechiefs in his own Court, which had herons the subject of
hditors and Retorters, or any person without i"liaenee and Parliamentary inctuiry. Wbat was the kind of stoical apathy
yeation to 'urgent biro ? or if adduced, would the House entertain
expected from bun ? That he should bear all the calumny
them ? in the cane of such a man they would amount to no arid abuse that WWI represented to have been heaped upon hint with
cknitiere. • Henendinbered a case in which the privileges of the unmoved calmness. It was more consistent with human nature
iron" were maintained with a very stria "41 ng°"" s"erity• that it should happen that, when this calumny and abuse were made
'ihe pony there accused was not a very high and powerful man— known to him, he should express his feelings in the strongest and
he' was Mr. Gale Jones, he behoved, • surgeon. The alleged warmest language, rather than in a strain Mate or less measured,
*remelt of-privilege, in that instance, consisted in his having p as a man in a cooler disposition might be induced to express him.
earthed a subject for discussion, at a debating club, which was put self. The conc.
'mien to which he (the Solicitoe.Genual) came woe
M the thaw of a question to an Hon. Member of that Howe. that al reflection or censure was not the object of the Noble
Miff was by a quibble perverted into the meaning of an infringe- Lord. Ile agreed entirely with his lion. and Learned Friend, that
meet of a part of their privileges specified in the Bill of Rights. neither the Lord Chancellor nor any other Judge ought to use the
The pouge 'referred to was that which provided " that the pro- jadgrnentopeat as a place from whence attack or annoyance should
a"""we no "-element be questioned in no court or place out of be directed against any pesos ; and as a menthes of the bar, he
it." By a contermniete quibble and perversion of all common
sone, the curehtet of Mn. Joins v... ...wit as It. a *sash of this would be amongst the forenuest to vindicate its. igdependence. But
hiectinent of rights; and by this sophistical oonstructum It eve .... again h begertl the li mid to resort to the marked difference of the
cm., ime to,S shown that no inomtation was intended to Le con.
condemned to l'ifW,Tatt for five months. It appeared to him eceed .slust. any Member of the Houseeothat the observations of
( ele. ler-Ingham) that without hiding recourse to any quibble, this Lora Chancellor were an hypothetical answer to a case that did
tin present case more nearly apprnached a breach of that men. not exist—au mower in fret to a thing, and not to • person. (Hear,
seen of the lid; M. Rights, nn which •Rfir• Jones had hem cane hear, hear.) He therefore could see no reason why the question
donned to imprisonment. Here the Lord Chancellor, on the mat should go Nether. If the privileges of the House had been itt.
oe Moire, dots indeed question the proceedings of this House, and elided, it was when no each design was intended. The reply was
'teat:too at a time before he inquires, before he takers time to tor- not levelled against the Member foe Calge, but was an abstract
qualm himself with the accuracy of what he hears or reads: ne vindication of the Chancellor's own character, without the least
dies still more, rariktr.stque caditine—he proceeds to condemn, personal aspectn.aspectofon ortenso.e nature. ( Hew. hear hear.)
mil even pronounces senteuceoo his Lion. Frionl(Mr. Abercromby) Air. SCAR LE'l7 then rose and said—l feel that I should be.
without hearing. Let the House consider if this sentence had been tray the duty I owe to the House mod to my profession if I did not
pronounced against a barrister practising in his Court, whose cha. address a few observations to the House upon this question. The
raster, fame, existence, nay the very subsistence of whose family, speech of my Honourable and Learned Friend (the Solicitor-Ge.
depended on his professional exertions. How ruinous to him must neral) does him honour. lie has uttered no sentiments as hi. own,
such a declaration of the Lord Chantollov prove? lie would find to which i do not meet cordially s„escrien, He has sheet, clearly
himself deprived of practice and of the well-earned reward of his that our Honourable and Learned Friend (the Member for Caine)
talents, and even cut off from existence, as far as in the Lord' never did what has been complained oft for be tells us that is soon
Chancellor lies, for ever. This would be one of the evil conse. as he read the report he doubted that my Honourable and Learned
'queues that must ensue front rejecting the present motion and leav- Friend could have said so, and I have still to learn that he is more
ant( the characters of Members of that Heide exposed to such fearful disposed to doubt than the lord Chancellor of England.—
loktryations as were this night the subject of complaint. The result (Hen, hear, and • laugh.) And surely, before he took a step, of
of giving imientity to the Chancellor now would be, that no bar. I
, all others themost degrading to the Bar of ellogeend, he ought to
rester, a elettiker of that House, would discharge
_the duty that he j have entertained the doubts (I tear hest,)which my Hooourable
owedthepubile, through a fear of being puma by iudicial yin- i „ti been,' Friend (the eolicitorn)enered) warms
.he did. He
dim thither. He would repeat, that a more gross and iisit viii-to . ought have exfunined whether the report was correct. He ought
leave of the privileges of that House had not before n pub.: to have sent for rip Honourable and Learned Friend (Mr. Aber.
ideal (0 therm, and he should add, that, if they permitted it to 1 minhy), and asked hin, ohtoher he would abide by that report.
pass temmiced, it was idle any more to talk of privileges. Mould , t0h,,,,n If the Noble and Learned Lord had meant only to
a! ours or reporters feel a wish in future to thunple on them, they I complain of the report, what was more eery titan to have said that
would be foe. to leave that wish ungratified, from any hauldee , the report was (else ? There are various ways in which a charge
about the privileges of th ! House of Commons. (Hear.) j contained in the rejoin of a speech matte in this House may be re.
The SOLICITOR•OENERAIA theft fine to address the I pelted, without violanno the privilegesof •the House. The party
liaise; for a few seconds he was not audible, front the noise that I eommainieg may state' it as a report, and treat it as such.;
prevailed among the 31embers. The first sentence of the lion. +slid ! It does not follow that he need attack.. the Member. J should be
Eternal Gentlest= that reached its was, that as the observations i gleit to know %healer, if the Lord Chancellor or any other Judge,
of the lord Chancellor had been founded on a repreeentetion in a I in ennomoice of any expression painful to his feelings or innotous
. newspaper. that he allowed motions to be reheoril in rich a manner I to his honour. should roceed to commit the person offending to
as to create delay, the blouse could nut understand the merits of
,' einem', is there any individual of any description of
.party who
'the case unless they uvula listen to a dry explanation of the farts ! would act say that this would be one of the ,grossest rtolattons of
- and eirruntstancot tasting to the transaction. There could be no I the privileges of the House 1 suppose that oi e process he
.elaubt, front the statement of his Hon. and beamed Friend (M.r. ! amid eonimansl, this Judge was to inflict a tine upon the offnulieg
eAlseemonsby), that the speech he made. and the speech he wee re., i person, avowedly because he bad delivered his sentiments in this
• resented w have made, were not one and the utile. His lion. ! house, contrary to the honour or feelings of title Judge, would the
• and Learned Friend had comedy mated what he Feel spoken, but' House hmitate to consider thia alio as a gross violation of its pri.
the was represented to have said that whereas under the Vice-Chan. I vileges ? I ask the Hoed then this question; Are you prepared
eellot's Bill no appeal email be heard from a decision of that Judge 1 to soy that the Lord Chancellor, or any other Judge, „shall
unless the petition was signed by two Counsel, the Lora Chancel- I stuck the person or property of your alerabers for what they may
. due had by • forced construction heard appeals without the signs. say in this House, but that you will surrender their characters to
lure of tiro Counsel, in such a manner as to bring disparagement 1 hie plmsure ? (I..outi cheers.) I have no hesitation to express my
Amon the Vice-Chancellor. Under these circumstances, be would I own feelings, which I mu sure will accord with yours, that I would
. ask hie Hon. and Learned !reload, who had gement to the sense, rather be sent to prison—l would ratlim..be depraved of my thrtune
batty of his DIM feelings, if it had been publicly mulled of him, I —I would rather be stripped of toy gown, than be called • liar on
that while acting under the high respoosibility and oilmen oblige- I the scat of justice. (Loud cheers.) I will put another question to
tines of a Judge, he had been guilty of • public breath of an Act the Home: Suppose some other nein, on • footing of equality
of Parliament, nay, that the multitude, frequency, and repetition I with a Member of this Home, in point of rank and fortune, had
of his breaches of law were such, that they constituted a great pub- , uttered things of. the same offensive nature as the Lord Chan.
lee grievance;—if his Hon. and learned Friend bed been thus: cellar hail said of my honourable and Learned Friend; suppose
emerged with so aggravated a beach of his public duty, would not 1 he had told the Jiletubor that he had spoken a gross falsehood in the
his feelings have been greatly irritated ? (ilea., hear.) The ac-' Meuse, and slid not deserve to wear the gown on his back, I
count given by his Him. and 'Learned Friend that night was most I would not the house have had the courage to resist that insult ? I
accurately stated; but if the house at to the representation ! What then ought the House to du in the cue of a .subject
is the paper, they would find that a woes indreprotentation of that I almost the highest in. the land ? If these privileges are to be
speech had been given forth to the public. lie would occupy their j held to be vionated in the ease of any individual, however hum-
ottendon tole • minute, while be read one paseage front the report I ble his station, or trifling the inennee ment, skall nothing be done
3 1 the :Warming Harald, the paper to which he alledeal. The lion. I when an attack, :tide, violent, and in every respect fitting to call
on! loathed Gentleman then nod the meowing passage front the for resistance, is made upon tie by the Lora Chancellor of England,
retort of M e Abeneamby's speech in the Muir uing Herald of I sitting on the bench of justice? (Cheers.) It has been said, I
ee'eteteettay last:— ! will not say with what truth, that the bar of England is in a de-
•• Am, caries the:. had been before the Vice-Chancelhw might be ; graded owe. It would ill become me to pretend to discuss the
*elite according to tbe ereeent practice, brought Lena the thee- , merits of the bar, or the cloth of this proposition ;
_but I will say
ccior—not he way of appeal, bat on rehearieg, by getting the . that it it was Minuted to reduce the bar to a degraded state, a more
. polies to furnish new On:aeri', setting forth new matter, although I ----e""nual way could riot he pursued than if any member of the bar,
the law w a, that no appeal should be brought without the sign*. i olio slosh also happen to be a Member of the House, should
earn of two Coume!. The Lord Chancelkw permitted that race I dare, in the discharge of his nublic duty, to. say any thing inju-
. um, by which a great expense wits brought on the litigating parties, I rues to the reputation, or painful to the feelings of the Judge in
and great dieparagemeat nn the Learned Judge who had just heard , whom Court he pranned, fur that Judge, on the seat of juittice,
the cause. Hence unto much of the increased buthims at the Lord I with ail the power is hie hands to take away at once the moral and
o lienceilor'e Court. in permitting those causes to be brought for his I professional character of the Barrister, by charging him with utter-
bearing by that cutotruction, or, ratllo/, ...seem of the Act of ! ine a gems falsehood, and adding, iu a woofing tone, " This has
:Parliament." I been sae: ben man will a gown on his back." (Cheers.) If the House
The lion. anal Learned Member resumed. Ile asked could any would vine an inferior offender who should so attack one of its
Judge fail to expo"' his indignation on readin such a , in members, will it forbear because the Lord Chancellor is the often-
which • breach of duty was openly imputed totem, the spree- der? (Cheers.) If I know any thing of the foundation or advan.
unction of an innovoion of practice, by which disparagement was tagas of privileges, it is became they area protection against power.
1 'ought upon the Vice-Chancellor? it was not indeed alleged (Cheers.) I as:: you, then, became a breach of those privileges
tee the Lonl Cilancellor had introduced the innovation with that has been committed by an ininvidual possessing more patronage,
eot:nt, but that in erVeet it AM been 'indocile. of render- power, and authority than any other in the kingdom, shall it be
earl the Viee-Ctutncellor'e Pell abortive. Tile House had been passed over without notice 'e I say nothing against the moral or
told nein-au-1y that the published account of his Honourable judicial character of the lord Chancellor : with the greatest .sin.
and learned Friend's semen ass not correct. When the lord eerie, I pay my tribute to his high reputation, Isis great dignity,
• 41ms:cello' made agesien 711 the subject on smudgy, he (the Soli. and leis unspotted honour; but shall hc,berause of hie power.attUk
eitornheteral) was absent from the Court of Chancery. lie could an humbloindividual, like my lion. and Learned Friend, though
noo therefore. spmk of his own knowledge as to the eipreasioos we all know his great excellence and merits, humble as he is corn.
used by the Noble shed Learned lord. If he couki„ be would can. pared tithed Lord Chencelloo—and pour forth the phial of his
e idly, for he could have no object in emending it on such it motion me:my wrath on my !Immutable and Learned Friend's head, be-
ae this, on the coiesitteratitm of which his honour, his veracity, and cause he has said What the lord Chancellor supposed was false?
his independence were concerned (hear, hear), arid on which he (Cheers) lend Honourable and loomed Friend had called in
would for no now go either to the right or to the left. (Ilea, hear, question the conduct of any other Judge, and he had ventured to
hear.) He had gone into the Conn just after the 4 'harcelfor had make Ito offeneive s defter:item as the Lord Chancellor, would not
used the words complained of. he (she Solicitont fent:rat) was not unto:real hid:motion have been excited thruitethout this House?
in the habit of reading the debates whn) he had curd them. lie, And shall it be lots forcibly expended because the Lord (chancellor
:bee wader: nut referred to any report of bit Wm. and Learatel j is the oneuder e Shad thr greatneas of the offixtler Amine impunity

fee the offence ? (Cheers.) If you shrink from rue dilly, is iteneeldeneet in the Courtof Ceanoery for twenty-two years, he haiL,
through interest or fern? lt must be one or the other. I rendered' it, in common parlance, a national grievance. (Hear.),
Far surely if an unhappy, primes had taken the same liberty, no ! He meant to say nothing aisrespectful of the Noble Lord; he im-
bounds would have been placed to your indianatiou. What is the' puted tu.him no base motives ; but if, at the end of his career—foe
' defence of the Lord Clionceßen? That he thought what my ; bemuse, In thenature of things, be nearly at the end—he entertained
Honourable and loused Friend had stated was false. If he did, 1 ; the opinion that, without any previous inquiry, without considering
maintain it would not all* the question of privilege. In vindicating ! what pain he might inflict, or whose future prospects he might
our privileges, we do ea inquire whether the viola:* believed he " destroy, he, because he was a Lord Chancellor of 22 years' standieg, ,
was speaking truly or falsely. If a eleniber is attacked elsewhere ' had the right to do as he pleased, it was time for Parliament to in.
for a eat he hex said in this House, that constitutes the breach of I terfere and check him. Somebody must speak out, and on some Privilege. Beyond all doubt in this case the individual rod the occasion the lord Chaticellor must be undeceived. lie (Mr. T.
speech were the same alluded to by thelord Chancellor. isthstiathet would appeal to the feelings of the Bar, he would appeal to the feel-'
he had had the misfortune to raid some newspaper. I will not say he . ings of the House, he would appeal to the feelings of the public at
meant to state what was untrue. I will not treat it as a question in i large, whether the practice of the Court of Chancery had not led to
which his honour is involved, but I ask again, shall he state "greatpublicineonvenienee,andbecomeasubjectofgenendeomplaint?
went he supposes to be true when it is calculated toelegrade or' Well then, in consequence of such general complaint, a motion was I
yeah a Member of the House, because that Member has spoken made in the !loose :for 'nil-airy ; and why should that motion be
what he believes to be the truth ? (Cheers.) I beg the pardon of the answered by the head of the Court of Chancery in terms admitted
House for detaining it so long. I have felt the more anxious to ea- to be rash, uncivil, and unthunded ? If the House refused 'teethes I
plain myself fully, because it is the conduct of the hotel Chancellor ! to the motion of his lion. and Learned Friend, he thought in his
that is in question. Towards that eminent Individual I can have cortraiesoe that a most unhappy precedent would be established. I
only feelings of personal respect. I must therefore be averse to I People outside these doors would not draw those distinctions which
enter into any discussion relating to him. In my intercourse with' were drawn within them ; and they would say that the high and
him, 1 have experienced only the utmost personalal civility, and the the dew, the rich and the poor, were not equally dealt with. %%'hit
most eibliging condescension. I have been impelled forward by the further course it might be limper to take, after the present motion
strongest sense of duty, but I admit moat reluctantly. It has np- was agreed to, he could not at present state; but he implored the
peered to me that since I have been an observer of the history of House to consider, that if they refused to go into the facts and ex-
l'adiament, never did an occasion arise that called so vehemently preseions not denied to have bceu used by the Lord high Chancel-
for the vindication of theprivileges of Parliament. (Loud cheering.) I for, they would be aiming a total blow not only at their own 'idyl-
The ATTORNEY.OIINERA It said, if he were asked to state legal, bat at the security and liberty of the people.
candidly his impression as to this nether of complaint, he should Ile PEEL said, he oould by no means concur with the advice
say decidedly that the Noble and Learned lord (Eldon) had coin I given to the House by the Right lithourable Member who had
tendon of attacking his Hon. and Learned Friend, the Member 1 just sat down. lie did not see how they could take the first step
for Caine. lie believed that the Noble and Learned Lord's sole proposed, and then calmly weigh what future course they were to
object was to defend himself against the charges, contained in the tale:. He considered that before such calm inquiry, they should ,
' Newspaper report. What was the situation of the Lord Chan- take a survey of two questions, which were much mixed up to-1
cellor, or any other individual who was made the object of this gather, and which he proposed to separate for discussion. The first I
kind of public attack ? The calumnies that were suppose. to have point was this—was any breach of privilege committed, or if any,
been uttered respecting hint were circulated throughout the load. was it such a breach as required the notice of the Mouse? T
lu this instance the debate had takes, place on Tuesday evening. second sans—was any attempt made to intimidate or threaten any .
On Wednesday it was published. ( lime, hear.) What was the gentleman of a learned profmaion, by the Judge of any, and what
Charge against the Lord Chancellor ? That he had Seen guilty of I Court?
,Between those two questions no sufficient distine-
extreme malversation hi his judicial duty; that he had resorted to ! tion had, as yet, been made; and for himself, he was quite
She perversion and evasion of an Act of Parlianume and fur the de. free to sty, that he thought the breach of privilege of much
grading arid disgraceful purpose of elevating ht own reputation et less consequence than• the attempt to intimidate or threaten.— 1
'toe expense of another Judge. his inferior in tbdsame Court. What With respect to the question of breach of privilege, it was difficult j
accusation could be more galling P and *ere' to add to its ireitate to say in how many instances they were committed in the course'
ing nature, was it made? Within the walls of Parliament, from 'of almost every day. That, however, was not the question now be-
whence it would immediately circulate through the country, arid at fore them. The question was, was there such a breach of privi-
the time it was seen by the Noble lord had been in currency lege committed as deserved to be visited with punishment. It was
several days. (loud cries of "lie*, he*, hear.") Was the Noblu ; quite usual for gentlemen on both sides of the House to make re-
boot to be supposed to feel nothing of such a charge ? Whet helterenee to what took place in the House of Lords—a manifest
uttered the expressions complained of, he for the first time had I breach of privilege, which was, however, constantly evaded by al-
seen the article, lie bald it in his hand; and expressly said he hiding to what was said "in another place." lie was not quite sure
alluded to the paper. lie had no object but to defend himself if it would not be better openly to state where such and such things
"pinta the aspersions which he there saw had been east against' weresaid, than, by such in evasion as he had noticed, to shew the
hun. The lion. and Learned Member for Cabe had doubtless I futility of the privilege. The House should not forget that this
expressed himself accurately aid distinctly as a lawyer, but the breach at their privileges arose out of another breach—the publi-
ipractice of the Court of Chancery was so intricate, that there was cation of the reports by the newspapers. The House had the
mine reason to apprehend that he might not have been undeestood power of enforcing its own orders—the Home had the power of
'by a person unskilled in the mere distinctions and technicaliths of prohibiting the publication of the debates ; but lie entirely con-
' that Couit. The facts of the case were, that as soon as the Lord cornet with all those gentlemen, who said that the publication of
Chancellor had taken his scat on the beach, (hemmer was put into their debates ought to be permitted; for be was sure that upon strike!
his hand, and he had expressed himself in an unguarded manner ing a balance between the evils and advantages arising from their
certainly, but with that warmth rind indignation which such a publication, the advantages greatly preponderated ; still it could
charge was calculated to excite, on the first motion that came before not be denied that great iinschices occasionally arose from the pub-
hint on which he could allude to the article. It was unnecessary lication of their debates, of which the present occasion furnished a
that he should have alluded specifically to the report, as he held striking and pregnant proof. Let the House fairly view this ques-
the paper in his hand at the time he was speaking If it was said tion—at them consider in the present instance, that a speech was
he used Linguage too strong, let it be remembered that he was re- made in Parliament reflecting on the character of the highest law-
plying man ueconeradicted report, in which he was represented to officer in the country, which was the next morning after its delivery
Gave perverted the law fur the basest purposes. Great allowance wafted, not only throughout these kingdoms, but to every portion of
ought to be made for the feelings of en individual at the moment so the world in which the English tongue was known—that speech
gems a calumny was first communicated to him. It was hardly conveyed that such an elevated officer It'd evaded an Act of' l'arlia.
fair, under such circumstances, to criticise the particular expecte- meet with a view to disparage a judge ender him. If
siona in which the observations were conveyed. lie (the Attorney. the publication of such a speech, containing such • charge.
General) trusted,: therefore, the House would not look at tie were not prevented, surely the feelings of 'rounded honour would
question partially, nor with reference to the last century, when arise in the breast of say man ; and be would naturally have re-
their proceedings were not daily communicated to the world. If course to the sane medium for a denial of the charge, through
they allowed this publication without complaieing—if they allowed which lc was first conveyed to the public. While the debates were
charges to he put into the mouths of tlit 31embers which they had permitted to beleablished—whae en unrestricted discussion was al.
never uttered--if they allowed these things to be done with mem- lowed in that Huse (a discussion to which he was at all timia
nity, it would be a little too much to enforce theirprivileges against friendly)--if falsehoods were asserted under such circumstances,
an individual who, in a moment of ithastion, uttered those exprtss their public contradiction should be allowed. In this case he be-
sions which in a cool and temperate moment would never have cc- limed that the enter in the newspaper was unintentional, but yet a
currcd to him. As to the degraded state of the bar, he (the Attar- false sepaesentation was made of what had been raid, and it would
ney.lieneral) differed with his Hon. and Learned Friend (Mr. be singular not to allow the accused the right of vindicating himself.
Scarlet), if he entettained the opinlonlithich be had said was current if, in making that vindication, intemperate language were used, this
amoogst others ; for be (the Attorney-General) believed that at no -distinction should be intended to, namely, that the Lord Chan-
period was there greater independence at the bar, or freer discussion, cellor was not the party who commenced the breach, but that being
not only in discussing cases, but in the conduct of the Judges them- accused of a ma)-adminiatration of the law, he claimed the peen-
selves. As far as hisubservution find experience went, he believed the lege of an.Englishenam, to speak for himself, and in so spmking,
assertion Was wholly destitute of foundation. It was clear there had had said the charges mode against him were false. It would be
been a false representation of what had been stated by his Hon.and the grossest tyranny legally to allow the publication of the debates,
Learned Friend (Mr. Abercronthy). The misrepresentation was and yet not allow the denial of charges to be made when they
presented to the Lord Chancellor on a sudden, and if he expressed were false. The privileges of Parliament were given for the
himself warmly and intemperately, it hardly constituted a case to benefit of the people, anti, he said, given every one as his best
warrant the motion before the }louse. privilege--the right to preserve his character inviolate. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. SCA KLETT.--I did not state it as nay opinion that the If falsehoods were published through the medium of the press, the
bay was in a degraded state. j did not say so, nor do I think so ; press should be resorted to for their denial. Let gentlemen look at .
but I will say this, that the honour and independence of the bar the course which they prescribe to themselves in debate, and it was
are owing solely to its own vinelication. this—one Hon. Gentleman calls the character of another in ques-
Me. TIERNEY said, that on this question, of such immense tion in the course of debate—and,
_if the debate went no farther, if
importance bathe vital rights of the House, he should feel himself it were suppressed. then no man had a right to say such a gentle-
disgraced if he gave a silent vote, or if be neglected to give his man acted in an unparliamentary manner. But here they permitted
reasons why the motion should nbl be rejected. A 3lember of the the publication of the debates containing such an auctle, and they
House had come down to It and made complaint of no lea • person could rot, in common justice, deprive the individual attacked from
than the Lord Chancellor of England, and lie had stated further, seeking redress, by his denial of the charge,. and declaring himself!
that the groundwork of the offence was laid on the judgment seat not guilty. When au lion. Member himself published his speech, '
whereon it had Pleased the Lord Chancellor to attack him, not only the question was different ; for it was held in the Court of King's',
in unmeasured but in gross and calumnious terms. Every person Bench, that though a Member of Parliament had a right to say
was satisfied with the statement of his lion. and Learned Friend what he pleased in his place in Parliament, yet that such privilege
(Mr. Abercromby) and that the charge against hint was not but. did not extend to his subsequently publishing that speech. In such
mined in fact, or justified by anything be h;µl said. It was int- a case the Member was personally responaible, and in what he (Mr.
possible for any man to stand higher than that lion. and Learned Peel) now alluded to, damages were given against him. (We be-
Gentleman, after what had passed the Lord Chancellor's lips. lieve the Right lime Gentleman alluded to Me Creevey.) He ( Mr. !
!however warm his (Mr. Tierney's) friendship for that lion. and Peel) did not, however, mean to say, that because a newspapee
Lamed Member, he could not desire more for him than had taken published what was incorrect, that therefore the Member to whom
place that evening, and there he left the question, so far as his it was attributed was to be held responsible for it. He meant no!
Hon. and Learned Friend was personally concerned. But what such thing. But in such a case the right reverted to the injured
was to become of the calumniator ? (Cheers.) What was to bc- individual of seeking redress through the medium of the public
come of this Lord Chancellor, who availed himself of his high press. The case of Mr. Hope had been mentioned; and that
station so to calumniate an humble individual ? First of all lie gentleman, conceiving his character was attacked, appealed to the
must remark, that no gentleman who had spoken had stated Member, who would, undoubtedly, if he thought proper, hes a
that he had authority from the Lord Chancellor to utter rieht to eay to hitu—" I'll give you no account of what I said." '
a syllable of what he had uttered. lf, indeed, the Lord But is any party to situated had persisted in demanding an account,
Chancellor was disposed to humble himself before the House, no doubt he would be voted pulley of a breach of privilege.. With
the Right Honourable Secretary for Foreign Affair% was the respect to the ease of Mr. Blenzies, he made no 'appeal to
last mouth-piece he would hare chosen (hoar, hear), and it tuust the 31ember who attacked him. He said—" I find a report,
be a deep mortification for the Noble and Learned Lord, that the of a speech, which contains what is false, as affecting my
,Right lion. Gentleman whom he had arrested front Its foreign character. I attribute it to,no one ; I do not say and I do not
metals should have become his defender at home. The lion. and care where the attack was made, and I'll contradict the charge
Learned Gentlemen (the Attorney and Solicitor General) had no through the medium of the public press." Every one, however,
authority for their statements. l'hey alleged, that the Chancellor knew that it referred to something which was said here, and yet
was imposed upon by reading a report not founded in fact; but this they voted that " he had explained his conduct tq the satisfaction
was perhaps the only paper that the bard Chancellor ha:not taken of the House :" (Mar, hear, from the Opposition benches,) and
I 1 home with lent and considered (hear, hear, and a laugh,) or on he was discharged. Ile (Mr. Peel) would never content to punish '
which he had ever at once come to a decision. ( Laughter.) The that as a breach of privilege which merely contradicted a speech;
mercy of the House was implored for this Noble and Learned containing erroneous stateuienta ; he never would convict any man
Lord, so distinguished for his doubting and hesitating nature. The under such circumstances. Where nice legal distinctions were the:
House was besought to acquit him in this case, not because, as in subject of diecumion, it was easy for the reporters to be inaccurate,
others, he was anxious to do justice at whatever delay (hear, hear.) without the slightest intention of misrepresenting. The news-
but bemuse he was a rash man. (Cheers and laughter.) the (Mr. , raper ori;.;ir.tring the mistake made the Hon. Member (31r. Aber.
Tierney) defied the Member most conversant with the terms of tee.' comae-) say, " It was a rule in appeals that nothing was to be in-
House, to show an instance where a motion had been made re-1 traduced that was not before the Court at the first hearing; but this
steeling a breach of privilege, and offering to substantiate the fact, j was done away, and another construction was put on the Act of
had been negatived. No excuse at a third or fourth hand had been ' Parliament." ,Ind if the Hon. eiember referred to the other pa.
received. The party offending was called before the House and epees, he would find that in none of them was there a correct report
compelled to make his own apology. (Hear, hear.) When Mr. of what he d.l say. lie (Mr. Peel) now implored the House to
1 Farquharson, the short-hand writer, had substantiated the offence, compare the accusation with the defence. The accusation was this:
it would then be for the House to consider what should be offered "Any cause that had been before the Vice-Chencellor might be
in mitigation. But before that, the party ought to be heard at the again, according to the present practice, brought before the Chan-
liar. Could the House hear the Chancellor? No. But if they reeler; not by. way of spinal, but on reheating, by getting the
abstained from noticing the breach of privilege, it would be said parties to furnish new affidavits, setting forth new matter. Al-
! that the insult came from so high a quarter that they did not though the law ease that no appeal should he brought without
know how to come at it. (Cries of " hear, hear, hear.") When lir, the signatures of two Counsel, the Lord Chancellor permitted
Hope had offended them, he was pot to the inconvenience of coming that practice, by which a great expense was bio,ught on the
up from Edinburgh. He then, et the bar, stated the impreseions litigating parties, and great disparagement on the Learned
under which he had acted. Irritation was also part of his defence. Judge who bad just heard the cause. Hence arose much of the
Tee House were satisfied that he had no improper motive, and increased business of the Lord Chancellor's Court, in permitting
they let him off, as he (Mr. Tierney) should always comider. very those causes to be brought for his hearing by that construction, or
' candy. But now the offender was COS called to the bar at all. Why? rather by the evasion, of the Am of Parliament." I lere, then, was
Simply became he was the Lord Chancellor. (Hear. hear.) The a charge made against the Lord Chancellor that he violated an Act
Attorney and Solicitor General had a tender feeling for his Lord- of Parliament ; whereas, in the Act of 1813, there was not a word
ship (Hear, hear), and he was to be excused even from an ape- I about the signature of thinned. When the report of such a charge
logy, because he had read ),:artily, and given judgment rashly. was seen by the Lord Chencellor, it was named enough for him to
1
(Cheers.) Ile (Mr. Tierney) could make great allowance for the notice it, and he did so in this manner—" 1 have only to state, that
temper of mind in which the Lord Chancellor must have been haring been in this Court since the year 1778, whenever a motion
during the the last four years, since the agitation of the motions for has been made before the Master of the Rolls, which he has refuted
' inquiring into the state of his court. Even his amiable temper must to allow, or which he did allow, and upon an application to the
be somewhat ruffled, when, after so long a discussion, in which so Chancellor to vary what the Master of the Rolls hail done, or to I
many charges had been preferred. and never answered (hear, hear), dcptroy it Altogether • and so again whenever a motion has been
he was at last offered up as a sacrifice for his judicial sins (cheers), made before theVictal'himicellor, and (Anneal have been of opinion
anclehough affected to be still defended in thelloose ofEornmons by that the motion had been improperly ',minted or discharged, the
his frioule, it was accompanied with the hint, that something must party has always, in all those castes, been at liberty to move
be dime to reform the abuses. (Chum ) But the lion. and again, with a view to set the matter right; and if tae signature of
Learned Gentleman (the Attorney.(iererel) contended, that the Counsel be necessary. to alter the practice of the Court, as it has
Lord Chancellor del not intend to attack °thew, but to defend him. obtained since the period I have mentioned, all I can say is, that
self; that he had given offence only accidentally these, hear); I have not a right to tax the King's subjects in that way."—
that it was the paper he meant to attack and nut the ma, (laughter). Nothing could be more temperate or more correct ane proper than
It was singular that he never had the pater until Saturday morn- this, se tar as it went. A charge wee made of the Lord Chan.
ing; and then at once having got it, he went thorn to his Court eellor's creating expense soil litigation, by evading the law. And
he gave judgment on it. But the paper had no gown upon its was it not natural, when he knew it to be a false charge, that ha
back. (Cheer.) The person the lord Chancellor attacked had ehould say so ? To say so might be technically censidered a
a gown upon his hack, and he was warned how he fail into such breath of the privileges of this House; but fifth and blood could
inaccuracies. (Cries of " Hear, hear.") He (31r. Tieniey) had too not tamely sit under a charge so false and so unfounded. (Heat',
nitwit respect for the „Hon. and Learned Gentleman (the Attorney. hear.) It was the peculiar duty of the Judges of all the Courts,
General) to dwell upon this cavilling defence. it was cleat that the es was most properly stated by Lord Hardwicke, that all their pro.
Lord Chance:Floe retened to the debate, and particularly to his three 1 ceedinga should stand right with the world; anti he (Mr. l'ael)
lion. and Learned Friends who hail taken part in that debate. After fully concurred in that opinion. lie now cane to that peragrapn
this never let the Home talk of printers. lie knew the difficulty which contairad the thensive expressions complained of :—" With
they had to meet; how were they to hear the Chancellor in :Mt ga-,; respect to appeals and mewing. it is supposed thee I have heard
Lion? When the present nuition was carried, the difficulty might ' them on new evidence, and thereby brought discreet on some part
then be fairly considered. The House might then pause and re- lof the Court. It is an peer falsehood !" Now the reel question
fleet upon the step next to be taken. The Lord Chancellor might here was. Did the use of these terms constitute of themselves a
make an ahology oa the bench, where it would be as public as the breach of privilege ? Ile would not say they were very temperate
offence. There might then bean end of all preceedings. But the expressions--but the question now to be decided was, did such a
Lord Chancellor could not retract. If he dal hit was ruined as a strong denial of a false charge constitute a breach of privileeee ? If,
Judge. lie must in effect say, " I have affirmed rashly and without in place of " utter falsehood" a the Lord Chancellor had said it was
any grounds, that an honourable man had uttered agrees falsehood." en o,cuor he was sure the house never would have heard of this
llt was impossible he could make such a statement, but something motion. 'The terms " utter falsehood" only applied to the report
must be thine. No Mali admired more than he (Mr. Tierney) did tin the newspapers, and not to the Hon. Member, who was impro.
the profound research and unquestioned integrity of the Lord' perly stated to have used the language contained in that report.
Chancel:or, but he could not therefore egrze tot* &aide the rules of ' And he denied that it could be considered as a breach of privilege.
Parliament to favour hie escape. lie could not forget, not. The Lord Chancellor then went on to toe, "On rehearings, it is
wittetthiling all that had been said foe him, that daring Its " clwayt competent to nail the evideucc given It: the cause, though

it was not read in the Court bsiow, either he the Counsel or the
Judge—futihcr Than Mai, the i'erri dots not go. On appeals, it
only reads what has been read in the Court below, and that practice
I have never deputed Jima in slily one instar.ce." The whole of
this was extremely temperate. (" Hear, heat—read on.") He was
proceeuing to read on, and he thought it unfair to triumph over
half a sentence. It was a miserable aed worthless victory to triumph
ewer two lines, when in all the other pans of the Lord Chancellor's
statement there could not be found cause for any complaint. (Mat,
hear.) The+ was the sentence on which vengeance wan row
celled for —" Therefore, really, betere chirp are so represented,
14411i(Nla rill by Gelillemen wttb ghats on emir bade, they should
at least take care to be accurate, for it is their business to be so."
That to be sure was not a very civil mode of expression, but he
was satisfied the lion. Member (Mr. Abereromby) was the last
man to whom the Lori Chancellor would apply them. That was the
language of irritated feelings, roused by. a charge admitted to
be tale, and it would be the height of injustice to visit it as a
bleach of privilege. If it were that great breateusestie gertlernal
stated it to be, he could scarcely imagine that the Right lion. lien.
tteman (Mr. Tierney) would hake treated it with so much levity. So
much for the first question of breach of privilege. He now tame*
the second question, and he would ray, that if there was a delibe-
rate intention to intimidate any gentleman of the learned pi denim,
it would be a breach of the nature I but agaiu he repeecee
his conviction that the Lord Chancellor had no inteetioa of doing'
ea The House had already heard, from a gentlemen of high cha.
meter practising in the Court of King's Beach, with whet county'
he had always been treated by that Noble Lord; and when his osn
duct had been so falsely called in question, it was not to be expected
that he showld have answered it to the *dint and most measure:.
phraseology. It was impossible fur him (Mr. Peel) to conceive
that threats would have been held out to any. man practising in the
Courts, much less to a ...pntlettian tithe eminence and integrity of
' the lion. Member for Caine (Mr. Alincromby). The objectionable
expressions were used under irritated feelings, and nothing, he was
convinced, could be farther from the Lord Chancellor's intention
than a deliberate purpose of violating the privileges of this House,
or holding oat threat or menace. If the Mouse 'then agreed with
him (Mr. ('eel) that there was no intention to violate their privies
lege., or to intimidate practitionersju
stice
to the Court, it was but
to hint that they should not follow the advice of the Re. lion. Gent.
(Mr. Tierney), an advice which he himself admitted to be full of
difficulties, ehich he had not once attempted to solve. (Cries of
" Hear," front the elinisterial benches.)
Mr. TIERNEY, in explanation, said, be wished to ascertain
through stone authority from the Lord Chancellor himself what his
real intentions were; and in that there could be no great difficulty.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH observed, that he should not
, occupy much of the attention of the Meuse; but he considered the
I subject before them as one of the most vital importance to the bah
inn-rests of Parliament and the country. He considered a gross
breach of their privileges had been committed, and that breach ege
gravated by an attempt to intimidate the members of the bee prae_
teasing in the Lord Chancellor's own ( eart, because they herd the
honesty and the manlinen, when its abuses were discussed, togive
a candid opinion. 11'hether the attempt to intimidate, or the real
charge of breach, was the more important, signified to him but
little; but this he would say, that if by such attempt_,. the bar had,
not lost its independence, it was placed in danger and jeopardy, and
would be exposed to the suspicion of not daring to do its duty when
an inquiry into the abuses of Courts of Justice was brought before
the notice of the House. If the House did not wish to protect
all its Members alike---if professional men were to be threatened
; and intimidated for the proper discharge of their Parliamentary
duties, it were better at once to exclude them front seats in Parlia.
I men t. lie charged it as a particular aggravation in this case, that
I &member of the liar was threatened by the Lord Chancellor ha
ids own Court, at the moment when the Legislature determined
upon instituting an inquiry into its abuses. Would the House
eedere that the Judges of this country, or any of them, should
riseso much coarseness and violence to one of its own mentben,
because he discharged one of the highest duties which society
called upon hint to perform ? If this breach were not now no-
tierd, the standing order for committees to watch over courts of
justice ought to be erased ; it was a satire on their proceedings,
and it would only chew how much they had degenerated from their
torefathees--how much they had been unmindful of their rights and
privileges. (ilea.) The Right ]Hon. Gent. (Mr. Peel) like a
well-practised logician, had taken seine distinctions, but in his
premises he used one set of phrases, in his ccir elusion another, and
that with a view to &dist a degree of feeling in favour of the
Lord Chancellor, to which he was rot entitled. But it was no
reason, because they tolerated the publication of their debates, that
they were to allow a judge, and that
_judge one of the King's
Ministers, to attack • elember of this House. (liear, hear.) In
proportion as that Judge was great and elevated, should his conduct
be viewed with jealousy. Nothing could be a more direct attack
than that of the Noble Lord upon a elemher of this House, for
what he had said in his place in Parliament. The Right Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Peel) had asked, could they be so cruel as not to
allow the Noble Lordto vindicate hiruseif ? lie said, No, God for.
bid. But then he (Sir James Mackintosh) asked, why the Lord
Chancellor had not first inquired before he flung out a charge of
falsehood upon a Member of the House, and character of his Hon.
Friend (Mr Abercromby) ? Suppose in a private affair such a
thing occurred, would not a first make sonic inquiry before
he went to the lest extremity rerr Vnould be not endeavour to Wei.
tain what really paseed,and give the person by whom he felt offended,
an opportunity of justiteing or explaining his conduct? He ep
quite sure that what the Right Hots. Gentleman (Mr. Peel) vino&
carted in the Lord Chancellor, he would consider deserving of
re-
prehension in a red-hot boy front school, who had just put on a red
coat before he took the colours. It was asked where was the Lord
Chancellor to defeud himself? Any where but on the judg-
ment seat—at any time but in the absence of his Hon. and
Learned Friend (Mr. Abercromby), In the other House of
Parliament he could have defended himself. In this Hone
he could have done so by his friends. Could it be said that
the Lord Chancellor was distressed ? That be was left alone ? He
had many friends in this House, who must be attached to him by
e es of gratitude, to defend him. In short, the Learned Lord could
have defended himself better in any othermanner, and in any other
place than' be had chosen. The Solicitor-General had stated some
common topics:in extenuation of his Lordship's precipitancy and
harshness ; but though extenuation mightbe a reason against their
passing judgment, tt could be none, whatever, against inquiry.
There might be merits in the accused to delay or avert sentence; but
pleas of runisation were quite unseesoneble when they were urged as
hers to inquiry. Why should it be said that the lion. Member for
Caine was to have "earthed through all the papers containing his
speech to see if it were accurately reported ? Why be taunted with
not letting the Lord Chancellor know which was most correct; but
reproach the whole of the House of Commons (in the person of his
Hon. Friend)withlaehmandmake those assumed ladies the ground
of coarse invective and personal and pointed intimidation? How
met a condemnation did this course of proceeding heap upon the
Lord Chancellor ? The true question now was, did any Member
deny that a breach of privilege was committed ? None. Did any
one deny that a false charge was made ? None. Did any one deny
that the threats and intimidation held rut against his Hon, and
Learned Friend had not a tendency to destroy the comfort, the in.
come, and the very existenee of the practitioners in his Lordship's
Court ? None Then he asked, would the House decline entering
into an inquiry ? And why would they decline it ? Because the
person charged was the Lord Chancellor, and because he wisbed
to deter the persons who had a knowledge of' the sinuses in his
Court from communicating that knowledge to Parliament. (Hear.)
The House of Commons bad been engaged in various struggles
with the CrOwn ; sometimes they immeeded too tat, but through
all, their energy preserved the constitution, and made the people
happy. ll'as it ever heard of before, that any chief magistrate of
any Court was so presumptuous and so daring as to act as the Lord
• 'ha :cellos' had done on this occasion ? (Cries of " Hear.") If the
I House wished to abdicate its functions, they would stifle inquiry;
if they wished that no man,because he was s lawyer,should state ha
opinions, let them reject 'this motion. (Hear, hear.) It was said,
because his /lore and Learned Friend had fearlessly discharged his
duty, that he could have dreaded nothing like intimitlation ; but
whet would they say to a number of aspomg young men, depeed-
ent, powerless, depressed by poverty, etruggling on in what was
once an honourable career—what would they say to such young
men, what were the chances of their success, if conduct like that
adopted by the Lord Chancelloi were to be continued 1 Then, in
place of talent, honour, virtue, they would have nothing but fawn.
At hypocrisy and canting servility ; none but the baseaninded
.could nee, none but the time.serving advance; and he would add,
that tf the House rejected the motion, lawyers would no longer be
as they had been, the champions of liberty and independeece, but
the basest sycephants of every Court. (Cheers hum the Opposi-
tion benches.)
Mr. W. WYNN was ready to admit that nothing had fallen
' from the Honourable and beamed Gentleman (Mr. Abercromby)
which justified the comment made upon his speech uttered on
Tuesday last. There was, however, some excuse for the conduct
of the Lord Chancellor, and he thought the House would be guilty
of as inneake if they proceeded further on this OCCallioll. Ile was
well aware that in saying this lie would be represented as deserting
the course he had so long pursued on subjects of this nature; but
he now said, as he had often said before, that he had rather tolerate
a trivial breach of their privileges than push them beemit due
hounds, end direct them to uses for which they never were intended.
He was always friendly to the fullest liberty of speech, and upon
that principle it was that when an Hon. Member was aoacked fur
publishing his own speech, he ',tented a motion which had for
its object to vote it a breach of privilege. Still, however. t o had
great authority for stating that it would be a breach of privilege far
a publisher top rint what a member might say in the House. Mr. Fos
had unmeant so. Had the Lord Chancellor thought proper, he might
hav: punished the proprietor of thenewspaper for &contempt in in a-
represeeting his Court—but he did not descend to such a course of
proceeding—he warmly denied the charge, and strongly contradict-
ed that which every other man would have been wanting to himself
if he did not do so. The Lon' Chancellor did not state when this
charge was made ; he named no individual as the author of the
falsehood ; then aunt his commentary, and the only part of it
giving a colour to ehew that he was guilty of a breach of our pri-
vileges, was when healked of persons having " black gowns or
their backs." If these terms had all been used, no breach he
contended would have been committede lie was asked, was a
Member of this House to be attacked for stating his opinions open
the appointment of a judicial inquiry ? and he answered No. But
if a false charge were. made—if far instance such an oflicer
as the Lord Chancellor was charged with evading an Act
of Parliament, for unworthy and improper purposes, he had a
right to say that such a charge was an " utter falsehood."—
Ile did not think that a veil should be thrown over inquiry alto-
gether, butt it should be first ascertained it the werdscompleme.l of
were used at all; and he would state it most distinctly to be his opi-
nion that they were not ; end therefore there could be no ground
of motion against the Lord Chancellor. If the motion of the
lion. Member were assented to, the House would be inquiring into
the corpse deficit, and would be putting an individual on his trial
before the bill of indictment was found; and consequently before it
was proved that any offence whatever had been committed. With
respect to the etivileees of lion. Members, he could rot perceive

t.
V
t

II
win this case they were violated k bat what, he begged leave to
k, would be the consequence if the court* marked-
oat by the
on. Member opposite had been pursued?? if the Lord Chancellor
Bled a Member of the House before him, and had inquired
sou if he used certain expressions, which had been imputed to
tu--if this were the conduct of the Chancellor, would not the
on. Member deem it to be a subject of parhantentary censure?
d would not he require an explanation on the subject, as it iin.
icd a breach of the privileges of that House ? It would be most
el to deny the Lord Cnateellor, ur any other individual, an
portunity of defending hitnseit Land his conduct upon this ()c-
--oon amounted merely to a defebeet against a charge which had
premed in all the nem:papas, sod had been circulated to the re.
motest corner of the empire. lle would therefore, under the in-
fluence of this feeling, vote against the inotimi ; and if it were
carried, he coldd not help thinking that the House would be in-
flicting the deepest wound upon its dignity and privilege.
Mr. SCAR LE'PT said it would not, ire his opinion be a breach
of the privilege of the House, nor could it be considered as such, if
the Chancellor had infomied anv Meitilser of the House that a par-
ticular statement could not be the tact, as it was ineonsietent with
the practice of the !louse.
Mc. W. WILLIAMS said he was not one of those persons
who wished the House to adhere closely and strictly. to their psi.
vileges; but lithe% was CVO' an individual question in which their
privileges ought to he maintained, it was the present. An im-
portant charge had been made against an individual tilling no less
a stamp than that of Lord High Chancellor of England. The
charge was, that he had committed a breach of the privileges of
the House; evil he would think it his duty to agree with dist mo-
tion, and mom to the pmpasition that I• 11 attack had been made
upon their privileges. if the Lord Chancellor did not send to and
communicate to the House, by the mouth of a feier.d, who was also
4 Member of the House, that he had no intention of assailing any
privilege whatever. This was the only wai in which, as he con-
ceived, the case could be got INC; consistently with the support
of their privileges and independence. A Member of Parliament
dud risen in his seat, and declazed that a grave charge hail been
made against a 51ember for what he uttered in that House. If, there-
fore, any inquiry was to be plaited, under a charge of this de-
scription, it ought not certainly be denied in this instance, because
the person accused was the Lord High Chancellor. He could not
retrain from expressing. his surprise st the argument used by lion.
Illenthen at the opposite side—that the proceeding called for was
not Constitutional. This he denied; and foe his part, he would
pot consider himself as acting in behalf of the Constitution of the
House or of the country, if be were wanting in respect to the pri-
vileges of the House, and did not support them when attacked;
and if ever there was a time when the support of these privileges
was called for, and when it was must desirable and satisfactory that
the character of the House should be upheld and maintained, it
was when a Member rose in his place, and made a complaint of the
Lord Chancellor : and he would most certainly assent to the
vote of the lion. Member, if upon their next meeting, and previous
to the hearing of evidence, he (the Lord Chancellor) did not pursue
that line of conduct which, so consistently with the honour of the
country, and his own, he was bound to pursue—if he did not de.
dare to the House by a member of it, that he did nut mean to
make any attack either upon the independence or the privileges of
the House—that he had acted under the influence of mistaken
feelings. By this means alone he thought thecharacter of the House
would be supported ; and its privileges would be compromised
if this were not done. lie would support the motion, and if the
House did not support it, it would be tantamount to the abandon.
nient and desertion of the whole of their privileges. He there.
fore thought that the motion should not be. at present discussed,
to give the Cord Chancellor an oppmtcnityof staring the mistaken
feelings ender which he acted, and of admitting that his words in
the Court of Chancery were uttered under wrong impressions, and
of lamenting they should be offensive to the honour of any Ho.
nonrable Member.
Mr. A BEM 'ROM BY felt himself bound to return his sincere
thanks to the Hon. Members at the opposite side of the House, for
the frank and candid manner in which they concurred with the
Hon. Members around him, that he had not, in the motion sub-
mitted by him, given utterance to any expression which could be
deemed worthy of animadversion. It was agreed upon all hands,
that the account which had appeared in the newspaper did not con-
tain a correct and true repr:sentation of his' sentiments. He was
also grateful for the support which he had received against the
manner in which he had been exhibited in another quarter.
Mem.) As to the mode of proceeding which he adopted en the
subject, he thought it the wisest and most prudent he could pursue.
He was well aware there were other modes to which he was corn-1
petent. Be might have taken that which, though not regular, was
not without precedent in the House. Ile might have considered
the question as affecting himself alone ; but he could not look upon
the question in that point of view: he could not separate it from
the consideration of the privileges of the entire House. He had
stated the question as fairly and as impartially as he could, when
it was considered that he was making a statement in which he was
personally concerned. Ile had been influenced by his sense of
duty alone ; and he would readily and most freely admit, that be-
sides his sense of what he felt was due to that House, he was
also influenced by a sense of what he owed to his profession ; nor
did he in any respect act for himself alone, he was not led
away by his own sense of the ease ; he sought the assistance and
advice of those in whose experience he collided, and those persona
had pointed out to him the onurse which he followed. He neither
had or would deliver any opinion upon the subjcet; but would
leave the matter entirely to the judgment of the House.
The question being loudly ,ailed fur, the House divided, when
the numbers were—
For the original motion, 102; against it, 151 ; majority, 49.
SUPPLY.
The House having resolved itself into a Committee of Supply,
upon the quotion that the suns of 40,0081. be granted for the con.
ittudion and repairs of public buildings for the year 1824,
31r. BANKS couldinot refrain from asking, whether certain
repairs, which took place in the neighbourhood, were included in
the grants ? and If the repairs were finished, how much money was
to be still expended on them ? He would be inclined to give his
opposition to the vote, until he ascertained what limit old what
period were to be put to the system of destruction which whit at
present carried on, and in his opinion carried much too far, against
the vemnahle and ancient building, in the neighbourhood or that
liaise. Of this he was certain, that if the House was aware last
year of the use to which the money would be applied, they would
not have granted it. Ile was most sorry to have reason to under.
stand that the system of destruction was to reach the Painted
Chamber t for this he was most sorry ; this room was not less ad.
mirable for its beauty than for its antiquity; it was erected in the
reign of Edward the 'Third ; it was unnecessary to destroy it; its
preservation was a most easy matter ; all that was required was,
to give the floor the necessary degree of elevation. He also wished
to be informed what the expense was of constructing that strange
and anomalous chamber, which was said to be for the purpose of
making the House of Lords more accessible to his Majesty. ,This
structure was a most serious inconvenience to both Houses, as

-
It obstructed the approach of the carriages, lie had another ob-
jection to this editice ; it was built In front and view of objects
which could not be looked upon without disgust. He also would
take the liberty of inspecting the accounts of the buildings now in
progress; and he would make a strict inquiry into their expenses,
as he considered them exclusively of the sort to be degrading to
the national taste. (Hear.) He was aware the courts of justice
constituted a distinct item ; and when they came before the House
he would inquire it their state. But in the meantime hs wished
to know what had been done for the money which had been
laid out.
Mr. BENNET, in addition to the subject of the discussion int.
media* before the House, wished to be informed of the name of
the architect under whose direction these buildings had been
erected. He wished to know this for the sake of the public, that
be might be avoided, and how they would get again into a scrape
by the ponstruction of such buildings. He also wished to know
who those persons were who granted the money, as he would be
most anxious to avoid them, if he possibly could. (Laughing.)
He wished to know the name of the architect, and also the Gam.
mince of taste.

..... -..—.-.
Mr. HERMES said the account of the money which wa.• ex.
pended, and of that which was intended to lie expended, should be
submitted to the House.

Mr. BENNET insisted upon knowing the name of the ar.
chitect.

WeCHANCELLOR of Ihe EXCHEQUER said, he was not
surprised that these considerations should attract the intention of
the Home: and for his part, he was ready and willing to admit
that there should be an alteration in the mode in which to,
of
this nature was carried on. With regard to the question put to
him by the Honourable Member for Shrewsbury, the name of the
architect employed was .Senne. The invariant alteration he sought
for referred to the Board of Works; it was, * his opinion, a mat-
ter much to be desired that in works of this description there
should be a real essential responsibility attached to some person, as
there was to himself in that House. (Hear.) This responsibility
did not exited present in the Board of Works. In his opinion it
should be vested in the Treasury. This was not the case at pre-
sent. Ile, and those with whom he acted, bad not at present
that responsibility ; they had no controul whatever. The Board of
Works ought to be satisfied with, and ought to be confined to the
keeping' oipablic works in repair; and the responsibility should
'he lodged is the Treasury, the only public office in which he
thought it could be properly vested. He would in a short time, in
his place, endeavour to frame some resolution on the subject, and
submit it to the House. His object would be to have son.e
Honourable Members in the House, who wotild, with himself, 1
have the entire responsibility.
Mr. TENNISON begged to return his grateful acknowledge-
rsents to the Right lion. Gentleman, not only for his opinion of
the manner in which the money ought to be appropriated, but for
the responsibility which he wished to take upon himself; this was
a matter of the greatest importance to the feelings of the public,
who took a lively interest in the preservation of her ancient build- I
inga, particularly those of Westminster Hall: these were sacred
in their estimation ; it was there the Kings of England had lived and
died; it was there the Parliaments of the country had been holden
from the remotest periods; and he would sincerely lament and de-
plore the destruction of these buildings. He wished to know what
new edifice would be given to the public in place of the Painted
Clamber; the one which was at present close to it was totally in.
congruous; it would in truth be difficult to match it; it was of the
pure Gothic style of architecture, and was incomparably the finest
room in London ; with this Go; hie style was mingled something
which was called the Grecian, in defiance of, and in direct option-
tion to all the roles of architecture of which he had read. `Pith
respect to the Courts, he thought the style most appropriate to the
arts of this country was the Saxon and the Gothic ; the Grecian
style was entirely inappropriate; it was not known or Introduced
into this country until the period of Henry VIII. Ile repeated
his opinion that the Gothic style of building should be persevered
in, and not the bungling mode which was lately introduced, and
which was highly improper.
3lr. 1111311; called the attention of the Right Hon. Gentleman
to the state of the Reconl-office at the back of .Ibingdon-street. If
it was right that the reco:ds should be kept, it was egaally clear

they should be taken care of, and .hey should, Le kept so as to be of
freer and easy access. He, as a inember of a Committee of the
House, had gone some tune since to inspect these records, and
though the building had the advar.tage of being lire-pmof, it was
otherwise so badly constructed, that he and his friends were obliged.
'to enter by single files ; and it would require the delay of some
weeks to see the records for which he sought. The walls of this
building were seven feet thick, and contained more brick and snot'-
, tar thais would be necessary for all the buildings which were at pre-
sent under repair. He trusted the House would consider what the
plan of this building should be, and suggut a remedy for the pre-
, sent inconvenience.

Mr. CROKER coincided with the other Honourable Members
in the opinion that the matter before the House was highly import.
ant, in respect not only to the amount of the money which was
granted, but as to the manner in which it was appropriated. It
was highly Important that this money should not be expended, as
it was well observed, to the disgrace of the national taste. He
agreed perfectly with the Right Honourable gentleman that the
responsibility necessary upon the subject would be most proncrly
vested in the Treasury. Ile was glad to be able to say, that, front
the adoption of his plan, he felt confident, not only in the restor-
ation of good taste by the adoption of what was in itself good, but
by the rejection of that which was had, snd which tended to our
disgrare: and he would indulge himself in the freedom of mak-
ing one remark, which he made with the more readiness front what

he had heard tall from the Right Honourable the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, that Government would abstain from the destruction of
that most ancient and venerable building, the Painted Chamber. Five
hundred years bad elapsed since this Chamber was dignified with
the appellation of l'crillissit r. It was even then illustrious, as being
the moat splendid effort of the arts of that day ; it was considered
to be the oldest work in which were blended and united the arts of

agriculture and painting. lie should therefore witness its destruc-
tion with regret and sorrow ; it had been celebrated for the space of
MO years, and its state of preservation was truly surprising; its co-
lour. were still fresh ; its gilding was still astonishingly vivid.
and its walls were as sound and unimpaired as if they were built
yesterday. He was sure the destruction of this chamber would be

a source of the greatest pain to the public. He would venture to
assert, that if the sums granted for purposes of this description
were expel:el.:4 with judgment and taste, the public would not re-
pine • they would get red of that niggardliness with which they
had been falsely accused, and which they had never spewed excel)!

in the case of Works which reflect d disgrace upon themselves and
the taste of thc country. He did expect, and he felt he had aright
to expect from the Right Honourable Gentleman, that he would
not tolerate the destruction of the Painted Chamber unless some

raison better than any as yet alleged were advanced.
Mr. HUM E asked, if the expenses fir the repair of St. James's
Palace were included in the sum of 40,0001. at present before the
House.

Mr. HERRIES answered in the negative.
Sir J. MACKINTOSH thought the highest respect and vene-
ration should be paid to the royal buildings, especially of West-
minster. He sincerely hoped the system of destruction would no-
be carried too far with respect to them. Those venerable and an-t
cie:,t buildings should be held in the highest reverence and regard
in which the spirit and principles of • free Conetitution were tirat
inculcated. These buildings should be considered as the spot of
all others in which the rights and existence of that assembly origi-
nated, and the destruction of them would not give a very exalted
proof of the value we set upon our ancestors. It would not be a
convincing proof that we possessed those moral feelings which
taught us that veneration which was due to the memory of our an-
cestors, and that gratitude which was due for the benefits they con-
ferred upon us. The Painted Chamber continued for three
hundred years to be the scene of the conferences between
the two branches of the Legislature; no other building would have
lasted for one-third of the time, and he sincerely trusted that no
rude and profane hand would he ever raised for its destruction.
With respect to the Courts of Justice, lie would, when it was ne-
cessary, say a few words of them, more especially of that part which
had the impudence to chew its face immediately at the western
front of the Abbey: this piece of architecture was styled Grecian,
because, he presumed, it was not so (laugh); it was denominated
irecian, because it was not English, because it was not national.
lie was sorry this ornament was not removed to the north side of
the Hall; that it was not removed from the western side, now
completely deformed by the addition of what was called Grecian,
but which was not Grecian, or, if there was anything of Greece
about it, it should be called (if such a style existed) the Btotian
and Barbarous I

Mr. fIUME said he wished that a palace was built for the King
of this country worthy of them and of the country. There was not
a petty Sovereign on the Continent aho had not a move splendid
residence. Pciides, it would be a Saving; there was more money
granted every year for repairs than would be sufficient for the pur-
pose; by these annual grants the money was frittered away.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed with the
' Honourable Member, that there was no palace in London ade-
quate to the wealth and dignity of the country. He would not
agree with the honourable Member, that the character of St.
James's had been injured by the mode of repair it had undergone;
on the contrary, the character of the building had been preserved.
The repairs were advantageous to the pilblie, as the pubic had a
right to have free access to the royal palaces. Though the
aces were not commensurate with the dignity of the country,
e did not deem it advisable, a few years since, to come forward
with a vote of a million or a million and a half, which would be
eonsidered as entailing agreat and unnecessary expense upon the
country. As to the repairs of St. James's, they were rendered ne-
cessary by the lire which took place there a few years since, and
the impropriety was in leaving the palace salmi! wnrepaired. The
repairs took place principally in the part where the lire happened,
and were of course intended for the comfort and convenience Of
hose who resided in that part of the palace.
Colonel DAVIES said, the King's Palaces in London looked
more like alms-houses than royal residences.
Sir T. Mt RIND said that there were many pr4aces in existence ;
though he agreed with the lion. ;Wernher for Worcester (Colonel
Davies) that not'one of thou was worthy the reception of the /110.
narch of such a country as England--Kew and % indoor, and that
singular specimen of architecture the knew not how to term it) the
Pavilion at Brighton : ' 3100,04*1. was granted for Windsor. We
might build for his Maiesty, in some more appropriate situation,
and at a much leas expense, a palace worthy of his reception and of
the nation who conferred it.

Mr. BRIGHT objected to the erection of palaces during the
continuance of en oppressive taxation.
Sir M.W. Ridley and Mr. James rose at the Mlle moment.
Mr. JAMES agreed with his lion. Friend (the Member for Brie-
tol) that at least the war taxes should be reduced before Ministers
contemplated the building of palaces.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY differed altogether with his Honourable
Friend the economical Member for Bridal. It was not the dispo-
sition of the English people to allow their Sovereign to he more
inalequately lodged than his subjects; and however it might Nerve
the purposes of a vain popularity to profess such sentiments as the
Honourable Member for Bristol had adopted on that night, he
might rest satisfied that the people of England were not uninte-
rested in the residence of their Sovereign.
Lord MILTON was not precisely initiated into this new course .
of policy which the Ministers hid on this night adopted. 'l'hey
seemed to vie with each other in extravagance, which while he
condemned, he could not avoid expressing &hope, that, in the rage
for the d.nnolition of palaces, which seemed commensurate with
the expensive disposition of klinisters, the Palace of Hampton
Court would nut he sacntieed; it was the scene where William the
Third lived, and its memory was enshrined in the hearts of Eng-
lishmen.
An How. n, whose name we could not learn, observed,
that though there were three palaces under repair, not one of them
was fit foe the reception of the Monarch.
Sir C. LONG protested against being considered responsible
for any of thole improvements, which were attributed to what was
termed the Committee of Taste. The Board of Works bad no
ecatroul over these matters beyond the selection of drawings sub-
mitted to their inspiration.
Sir J. NEWPORT hoped that the wont would be stopped until
the expenses were ascertained.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained.
The vote war agreed to.
The sum of 10,0001. for the College of Edinburgh was granted.
It was then proposed that the sum of 13,8381. should be granted
for the works ofPortpatrick.
Sir ISAAC COFFIN protested against this useless expense,
and the equally pernicioma exhaustion of the public money upon a
pitiful place called Donaghadet. The tides were most ibiticult to
be guarded against.
Mr. PEEL justified the proposed grant. Mr. Rennie, who was
the artist employed originally in that work, tad most accurately
' estimated the effect of the tides.
Sir I. COFFIN reprobated it as a job, simile to that of Dun-
i! fairy.
SU JOHN NEWPORT Lid, that with respect to Ilowth he
would assert, that there was no job mixed up with that trans-
action. _ .

AIL GOULBURN reminded the Gallant Admiral that the
packets much more often made Howth than Dueteary.
Sir ISAAC COFFlN—Because they are ordered to go there.—
(A laugh.)
It was next proposed, that for the completion of the Caledonian
Canal a sum of 113,0001. should be granted.
Sir N. W. RIDLEY asked for what purposes the money was
intended
The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER replied, for the
purpose of sinking the canal to the depth of twenty feet
throughout.
Sir J. S3l ITH did not object to the grant, but he wished for
some assurance that this would be the lam sum required.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCH EQC Eli replied—That
the Commiesioners were of opinion that the sum now proposed
would be sufficient.
Sir J. SMITH—I understand that the Right Hon. Gent. Mir.-
self Is *Commissioner.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—If I am, it is
merely a Commissioner ar 40till. I am not acquainted with the
circumstances of this canal.
Mr. HUME observed, that the Canal had already cost 93,0001.
and in all probability its expense will exceed a million. Was there
any prospect of its ever paying ?
31e.11ERRI ES hoped there was much a prospect. At present,
from its insufficient depth, there could be but little traffic on this
canal.
Alr. WARD considered it a very useless undertaking.
Mr. WILSON moved that the vote should be suspended until
an account could be taken of the probable expense of completing
this undertaking.
Mr. W. SMITH opposed the amendment. The plan as
originally adopted was good ; no doubt considerable expenses bad
occurred nut contemplated by its projectors, but still it was a most
noble undertaking.
IIeCIIANCELLOR of the EXCIiEQUER saki that stopping
the vote would have the effect of Waiving back the work lot a
' year.

The amendment was, at the suggestion of the CHANCELLOR of
thT YAW 11E4 V ER, withdrawn.
Mt. HUME was exceclingly desirous that the Canal should be
disposed of to some cunipany. In ouch an age of speculation, go.
vernment would not long want a dedrable offer.
The CHANCEIAAM of the EXCHEQUER would assure the
Honourable Member for Atlerdeen, that he would be most willing ;
to receives tender from him•on that subject (a laugh.)
The sum of 30,01.101. was then proposal for building and repair.
in g Westminster Hall.
Mr. HA INKS race to object, not to the amount, but to the.

outrages that had lately been perpetrated upon this ancient edifice,
and he was exceedingly glad that his Right Honourable Friend
(iir C. bong), had exculpated the Board of Taste from any par-
ticipation in this abominable undertaking.
The OUNCE:IA.OR of the EXCHEQUER regretted as

muciasasiiontMraltit,kriend these Outrairs upon tote; with
whom they originated he could not determine. Ills that visit to
the Elan certainly surprised him; the foundations trete already
laid, and all he could now promise was, that no such uructure

should disgrace the opposite silly.
Mr. IVILLIA3IS proposed that this objectionabb structure
should he razed, and nut one mone of it left on another.

Mr. LENETT trusted Whitehall MO nut speedily to undergo
improvement.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he was

certainly -- n ------------ such r question.
He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) distinctly stated, that any
alterations for Which Parliament might allow hint a grant wonld be
made under the directions of a Committee. He did not believe

there was the ilightestproject of the kind alluded to by the lion.
Member.

Mr. 'WILMA 3IS ',mussed that the motion should he postponed I
to a future night, when there would be more time to inquire into
the subject.
llle. BERNAL knew that there was considerable anxiety among
the legal Gentlemen, several of whom were in the House, to have
the building finished • and if it were to be pulled down, and then
built up again, it would cause considerable delay and inconvenience
to them and to the public business.
Mr. W thought that the subject hail nothing to do
with the Courts of Law ; they were in a totally different part of
the building ; and it was not his wish that they should be touched.
But in his of • 'on it was better that the public should suffer a tem-
porary inconvenience than that a building disgraceful to the country
should be suffered to remain for posterity to wonder at.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said, that his approbation of
the building was not very great, but the question was, whether or
not we should delay the public business of the country by taking
it down to build a better one.
3lr. BARING made some remarks, which were almost inaudible
in the gallery ; we understood him to ask some questions relative
to the plan of the new post-office.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said lie be-
lieved he could answersatisfactorily on this subject (respecting the
Post-otlice.) It had been agreed on by the Committee that designs
should be given in for the purpose of choosing one from the
number; yet of all those which were laid before them, not one
would exactly dn, because so few were acquainted with all the
departments necessary for the object. The Committee then di-
rected their own architect to send one in, and transmitted it to the

Treasury. lie (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) did not think it
exactly the thing required, and conceived that it would not an-
s•rer. The one then given in by 111 r. sniirke was chosen. It ap-
peared to be a design which united to utility sufficient grandeur and
ornament, without being festooned or any thing of that kind. (hi
the outside were porticos, and the windows were very large. In
short it was such a desq,m as appeared; to him to unite taste and
use, with as much ornament as was allowable, front (what should
' be always recollected) the nature of the place in which it was to be
built.
. .

Mr. WILLIAMS misted that. at least, some alteration would
he made in the building; for certainly it was required.

Agreed to..
(to theresolution being put, that the sum of 40,0001. should be
granted to pa j for alterations, and additions to the British Musvam,
Mr. BEAUMONT alluded to the magnificent donation whieb
had been presented by Sir George Cockburn. It should be known
that the collection of paintings so given contained a . great many
most admirable specimens. The gift would have been a noble one
if it had been bequeathed by Sir George Coilrburn at his death ;
but it was much more so, his having given it while living.
The Clf 4 NCELLOR a the EXCHEQUER said that no one
was more entities than himself to follow the Ron. Member (Mr.
Beaumont) in- his compliment to Sir G. Cockburn. He (the Lord
Chancellor) had from delicacy refrained front mentioning the cir-
cumstance on a former night. He was convinced there was not a
man in the kingdom who did not agree with him in praising the
spirited individual, who, during his lifetime, had presented, the
country with so magnificent a gift.
Sir T. BARING thought that a better place should be pro.
vided for receiving the pictures presented by Sir G. Cockburn
than the British Maseum. Ile thought Somerset House would be:
much more eligible,
The CIiANCELIAIR of the EXCHEQUER obserbed, that if
such were the case, all the other collections must accompany them.

When he recollected the intimate connection there was between
the sister arts—painting and sculpture.—he thought it more than
desirable that they should be together. It was his opinion that
Somerset-house would not be found to answer, because of its situa-
tion, which was near the water, and might be destructive to the
pictures ; it would not be well to rut even the risk of It. Then it
would be necessary to find other plates for the public offices, be-
, muse the side facing the water is the only ono which could at all,
'Bawer. Ile would observe, with regard to the dcnation of Sir G. ,
Cockburn, that it was given specifically to the British M seam,
and it must. therefore; remain there.
Sir T. BARING supposed thee the pictures of Sir G. Cock-
burn were not gi /en to the British Museum, but to the coun-
try; and he was sure that these could not he any objection on
the part of the giver to have them placed in a better house. He
(Sir T. Raring) would suggest Whitehall. Considering the in.
crease and improvement in the art of painting in this country,
' every advantage should be provided for its encouragement.
Sir C. LONG thought that Somerset House woad be a very
unfit place, because of its exposure to 'the smoke of the gas.;
which, he could state from good authority, was extremely prejuth.-
Mel to paintings.
Mr. W. SMITH thought that Somerset-house was the last
place which should enter into people's heeds, because it was not
limp enough to contain much, and was divided into so many dif-
ferent apartments. lie thought the beat plan would be to finish
the eastern wing of this building, and place the pictures there.
It had been nearly thirty years unfinished, and to persons going
down the river, it presented a wretched appearance; there was so
much beauty to be aeon on one side, and so much deformity on the
other. It was his most earnest wish that this should be done.
Mr. CHOKER observed, that every one in the House must be
aware that the most famous collection of paintings which had ever
been in England had been kept in Whitehall, which was very near
the water. lie was quite sure •that means might be used to pre-
serve the pictures from damp. In the finishing of the eastern
wing attention might be paid to the Royal Academy, which was at
present very much confined for room • obliged to place their paint-
ings up three floors, and inconvenienced in every way. There was
also much injustice complained of in the arrangement of the plc.
tures. The artistsfrequently complained that good places were un-
fairly given to some and bad to others. He trusted that some atten-
tion would be paid to this, and that • the rooms at present occupied
for this exhibition of the Royal Academy might be given to them
for a Library.—Agreed to.
41,0001. for the Ilarbour of George IV., at Kingston.—
Agreed to.
14.4671. for the harbour at Donagliadee--Agreed to.
26,0001. for the Penitentiary at Millbank.
Mr, GORDON wiabed to know why this sum was applied for to
a greater extent than last year.
Mr. PEEL said, that it was in consequence of the removal of
several of the inmates from the Penitentiary, and that It was an
Act, on the necessity of which•there could, be but one opinion.
Common humanity dictated it for the preservation of the health
of those who had been confined there. Prisoners were not sent to
the Penitentiary without the strictest Inquiry having been first
made. He (Mr. reel) intended moving for ,a Committee on this
subject, but he would withhold it because he saw the Honourable
Mensber iorShrewsbury, who had promised to move on the same
subject, was not in hia,place.
Mr. GORI)ON trusted that this vete would be postponed,
become no arrangemeet had been made respecting the Pent-
tenthly.
Mt. PEEL observed, that It was true, but that provision must
be made teethe prisoners. It was not for the Penitentiary but fur
its inmates that the Howie was called upon to vote.
- Mr. HU3IE said, that last year the vote we.: only for 10.0001. ;
that now they were called upon to grant a considerable sup more.
He knew no reason for this.
Sir M. W. RMLEY wished to know from the Home Seczetary
Ulm bad any. objection to lay before the HOW the proceedings of
cite Committee which had been appointed to inquire into the state
of health of the inmates of the Penitentiary. It had been stated
,that the diseases were of long standing in the Penitentiary, but no
report had ever been laid before the House. He was sure that
when it was, the House would think the Penitentiary would better,
be applied to some other purpose than the one et first intended.
He did not, however, wish to press the matter.
Mr. PEEL—Of course auch a document will be laid before the
Conimittee, when appointed.—Agreed to.
The following resolutions were then agreed to :-
25,60111. to make up the deficiency of the Fee Fund of his Ma-
jesty's Treasury.
11,0051. for the deficiency in the department of the Home Se-

cretary.
20,4381. for the deficiency in the department of the Foreign Sc-

cretary.
14,5001. for the deficiency in the department of the Colonial Se-

cretary.
13,4221. for the deficiency in the Fee Fund of the Privy
08,0001. for the contingent expenses and messengerss' bill in the
Treasury department.
9,7371. for the contingent expenses and messengers' bills in the
Secretary of State's department.
38,43114. for the contingent expenses and messengers' las in the
Foreign Secretary's office.
7,341111. for the contingent expenses and messengers' bills in the
Colonial Secretary's Office.
2,91141. for the contingent expenses and messenger; bills in the
department of the Privy Council.
3,11631. for salaries to officers in the Exchequer.
8.11461. to clerks in the Insolvent Debtors' Court.
11,91;61, to defray the expenses of the Houses of Lords and
Commons.
21,6191. to the officers of the Ilouses 61. Lords and Commons.
4,1011 for the office of the Lord Chamberlain, and his Majes-
ty's Household.
6,0001. to the

of the Leith Revenue.

Pahl
Into
the
Exchequer, in the years ended the 3th January, 1823,
and Sth January, 1824,