The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1821-05-02 00:00:00



, ray winied•r . I'
of tiolt Hsu* a d»po•ition to vote for •

perfeetly competent to uny
Member to aeste it as hit opinion of .any vote that
•it Weeded what was ireeeraary. or what ought to
lx t*a~rted, and in the latter settee he had *Hider-
s 'the expression of the Hon. Member who
.nisolie last but our, and not in the iateryttetitioh
which had been put on it by the Hon. Neither
who spoke last.
Culosiel DAMES suid lie had not meant to allude
'to acy isidividual, nor to any particular persons of
the Genileinen opposite; but he did say, and
would agate repeat of the neijority of that House
generally, that they were equally ready to vote fur
one sum as another, if the Minister required it..
•The Hon. Gentlernal opposite had therefore unne-
cessarily taken up the time of the House, by inter-
rupting him when he was on the point of conclud-
ing what be had intended to say. He would now
add, in reply to the observation of that Hon. Geo-
Items'', that whatever he at any time said in that
Ousts', he was perfectly ready and willing to repeat
in any other place.
Mr. MARTIN, of Galway. repeated, that he
thought it au imputation which ought not to be
east upon those Gentlemen who voted in the
majority.
The CHANcIII.I.OII of the E XCIIIQUIIR said,
that, conceding to its fullest extent what had bees.
stated by the gallant Officer, he could not agree
.with his Hon. friend, in considering it es an im-
putation on the majority of thst House ; but he
looked upon it as a high compliinesit to the charac-
ter of the Goverisineut, which stood so high in the
confidence of the House.—(l.lreghler.)
Mr. SCARLETT said, no doubt the result was a
proof of the confidence placed iu the Government
by the majority of the House, en which the Right
Hon. Gentletnau had certainly • right to congratu-
late himself, and that confidence might very natu-
rally have grown out of the lung and intimate con-
nexion between theth. Bsit when it was eistioider-
ed that those votes were usually passed in very thin
Hawes, and at a late hour of the night, he could
not help thinking that the Hon. Member for Wor.
'enter was correct in asserting that if Mini.ters bad
asked for ten times the amount of the present es
males, it would hive brew granted.
The Resolution was then agreed to, as were also
several others, without any observation.
On the desolution being read for granting
174,069/. 10s. 611 for the army pay of general
officers, not bring colonels of regiments—
Sir R. FER.IION rose to call the attention of
ite House toteh case which he had mentioned in
the Clogglittce, and which he conceived • hoed
line; armhose general office!s who, not cumin
within a certain cumber on the list of each rank,

were deprived of their half-Pay as general officers,
and received only the haft-pay of the regimental
rank to which they had attained previous to being
rained to the rank of general officers, which would
not afford a siatisneteseco for their families. He
thought smite regulation should be made in favour
of officers who hod served 35 or 30 years at leual.
The Marquis of LoriDONDILIZY said, in the
abs nee of his Noble Friend at the heud of the
War Department, he could not give any specific
information on this subject, but he had reaoti to
believe that some regulation was in contemplation
on the subject alluded to by the Gallant General.
The Resolution was then agreed to.
On the Resolution for a grant of 810,169/.191.9d.
for the half-peg and military allowances of reduced
officers, being read—
'Colonel Davtes-said he wished to call the par-
'tient:kr attention of the House to the subject of the
half-ixtr. lie spoke on the behalf of a meritorious
'class of officers, whom he considered to have been
very ill treated. The number of officers on the
half-pay of the •rnty, below the rank of General
`Officers, was '8,616, and the sum paid to them was
'765,7811. 16•. 2d. ; of this number 1,411 were
'cavorts and ensigns. Dariog the last four yeses
arid • half 508 new commissions had been given,
of which a very inconsiderable number had been
'filled up from the half-pay, the remainder being
Oven to persons who were not before in the service.
This was not only a hardship upon those officers on
inilf-pay, who were willing to serve, but it was
also a great injustice to the public; because, by
tilting up those appointments from the half-
pay, the country might have been relieved of
a considerable portion of that charge. He con-
tended that at feast half of the commissions
disposable without purchase should be filled
up from the huff-pay ; Sod he ►hould tattoo&
early opportunity of moving an address to his Ma-
jesty on the subject. A similar address was unlit&
inously agreed to by the House in 1740; but at
present they had a mach stronger reason for it then
existed st that time, in the vast increase or the

half-pay list.
Lord Per.stEasTON said he was quite ready to ad-
mit, end he could assure the House that it was so
felt by the CoMmioder-in-Chief, that it *as most
desirable to relieve the country from the burden of
the half-pay, us far as it could be done with con-
venience to the public service. if the whcic iyf the
first commissions were to be filled up bout the
half-pay, the army would be entirely closed to those
persons of the civil ranks of society from which it
was ordinarily supplied. and he was sure that no-
thing could lie inure desirable in a constitutional
point of view than to connect the army as closely
us possible with the general interests of the country.
With ►espect to promotions, it must be considered
that persons who were in active service had certainly
a preferable claim ; but whenever vacancies could
be filled tip from the holt...pay, without prejudice
to such claims, the Commander-in-Chief was always

sunny parties.

It seemed to have

oirTy eft its with a givet number of diem, but
that'titer te woe else • great number of *lke& twee,
-
matey of whom might be wears who, under othe'r
receesstatsees, would • not be deemed preferable
candidates for commissions, but when the services
of their families were considered, sweet be looked
upolias fairly. entitled to the chalice of appenntneent.
A notrer thing which had been kit en' irelyout a con.
sideratirmeae. that many of these wise weie on half-
, pay wire unable to serve, and many were unwilling to
return to full pay. Since the peace, from 910 io3oo
officers retired upon half-pey voluntarily every rear,
and would it not be on injustice to force them
upon the full-pay establishment, for the sake of a
pitiful sating of a few shillings a day ? The effect
' upon the prianootion of officers seemed also to have
been overlooked. lu the regiment with which he
was connected, the 14th, six companies had be-
come vacant since the battle of Waterloo. which
had been filled up from the half-pay, and, the coo-
-1 sequence was, that the oldest Lienteuitot its the
regiment at the bottle of Waterloo, was still a
' Lieutenant ; was it then just, be would Ask, that
such a mode of filling up vacancies should be
persevered in ?
Colonel DAVIES wished to remind the Noble
Lord, that he proposed to fill up only half the
vacancies and new commissions from the half-
pee; so that there would still be a sufficient opeu-
nig for the admission of persons of the description
alluded to. Ile wished to ask the genera Getter.)
who spoke last, how many of the companies to
which he had alluded wrre tilled up front the
halt-pity by exchange on receiving the difference ?
General GASCOYNE—" Not vise."—(A laugh.)
Sir H. VYTTAN contended that is wassimpos-
tilde the army could be of kept up except
by fresh admiseions. He also remarked upon the
hardship of the cases of officers who after many
yelowsersree being promoted to the rank Of General
Officers, were found to retire upon the Intif-puy of
their regimental commission's, which often del not
amount to the interest of the money they had laid
out in the porchste.
Colonel DA•I ES said he wished to know from the
gallant Generid, the Member for Liverpool, how
many of the companies to which he alluded were
filled op by exchange from the half-pay with or
without the difference ?
General GASOOTN IL replied, that four had been
so filled up.
Mr. HusaisSoe contended that the effect of the
system recommended by the Gentheniu opposite
would be wholly to strip the promotion of officers
now iu active service, and to 'exclude bons the
army those persons who might wish to cuter from
the civil orders of society. Besides which, many of
the officers on half-pay were old Ind word out in the
service, and many, not less thou 1,762 since the year
1816, hod voluntarily retired upon the hole pay,
and none of those could with any justice, be forced
into active settrices
Mr. Huns said, the object of his Resolution was
not at all to affect the promotion of officers, but
wily the issue or first commissions. anal to pretreat
the introduction of fresh person., until all those on
lislf-pay, who were willing to serve, were disposed
of. If glut were fairly done he should not quarrel
with the orrangeineet ; but there was another ens
cunistince of which be had to complaio, which
was, the appointment of individoels to first com-
missions, and placing them on half,pay bu the same
dry on which they were first appointed. He had a
list of not fewer than 71 Ensigns who had been so
placed ; this was an enormous evil, and arose out of
the at stein of selling commissions, which was done
by order of the Commander-in-Chief, its order to
give money to individuals whom he conceived to
have claims.
General GASCOTNE begged to correct the state-
ment of the Honourable Member as to the disposal
of money produced by the rale of commissions, to
which lie had alluded. The cases to winch he sup-
posed reference had been made, were those of offi-
cers' widows, who, on the death of their husbands,
were allowed the inodnce of the sale of a commis-
sion of the rank below that of the deceased.

Lord PALMERSTON said he held in his hand a
printed copy of a return, by order of the House,
of the number of persons appointed to commission",
apd since placed upon half-pay, the number of
Pinch, from March 1819, to Jeuttury 18i0, was only
19; the lion. Member, irupposed its
bra statement of 71, must hate referred to former
periods. .
The Amendment was then negatived without a
division. Before the question was put on the ori-
ginal Resolution—
Mr,. HUME said, he wished to make a remark in
reply to the lest observation of the Noble Lord.
He held in his hand a copy of the return mention-
ed by the Noble Lord, who bud correctly stated the
number set forth in it to be 19. But the Noble
Lord. would perhaps recollect. that on a former oc-
casion he (Mr. H.) bid asked him whether his
authority was to be rdted on ; sod the Noble Lord
had told him, in reply, he believed it might. Now
he held in his hand a hat which he had extracted
from sere Army List, signed " Palmerston," not
only.of the 11 to which be bid before alluded, but
of 69 more individuals— ( Leoghler)—who had
been put upon half-pay osi the same day on which
their appointments were dated, and of rhe.lrliole
140, there were only 14 which did not come vrithiu
the period included in his Hesolution.—[The Hon.
Member proceeded to read several ut the cases
from the list in his hand, and *aid, if the Noble
Lott! a lolled it, he would let him have the list to.
refer to.)—Now he must repeat, that to appoint so
many persons 10 new cummisoions, and to allow
theta to retire on half-pay immediately, with little
chance .of their ever tieing actively eMployed, was
saddling the C'owprsag—(Generallaughtre?its tobieh
Ike Hua. Member himself joined.)—He begged
pardon, he useont to say the cutudry, with a use-
less and unnecessery expense..
Lord PALmearTuw said, the way in which the


duced before a porclumer appeared, to deprive the
'ollkeer of the permission which had been given him
M sell his commissio. He incurred sufficient hard.
ships in the redoctionof the amount realized by the
sale, owing to the differreee between the half and
full pay.
Colonel Dames said, when the Noble Lord
talked of the hardship in such a case, he 'reined
to forget that by the prerogative of the Crowu an
officer might at any moment be struck out of the
list, and deprived of his commission. Commissions
were taken subject to the risks of such regulations,
and the parties had** right*o complain of hardship.
To allow persons to purchase half-pay commissions
was nothing more ti give them an opportunity
iges
of purchasing son • m a cheaper rate limn they
could by buying in o ilie public funds, and getting
• larger interest for their smog than they could
otherwise obtain.
Sir H. HARDINDI observed upon the hardship
of the cases df General Officers who, in consequence
of the alteration of the regulation of 1814, at the
recommendatiou of the-.Ftuence Committee, were
reduced from the half-pay of their rank as General
Officers, to that of the regimental rank they held
when they were appointed as General Officer..
Upon a calculation of the average number of deaths
of General Officers, which be reckoned at 20 each
year, it would !eke ten years before any one of those
so circumstanced at present would receive the half-
pay of his rank ma General Officer. This was a
hopeless case, and be recommended that all such
officers as had not retired upon half-pay of their
own set, should from,the date of their appointments
as General Officers, receive the full poy.of their
regimental commissions.
The various Resolutions were thessagreed to.
Lord PALIIIRsTON gave notice, that to-morrow
he should move the votes for disembodying the
militia.
Mr. Balms'. wished to know front the Noble
Marquis (Londonderry), or some of his friend*,
, what course was inteeded to be pursued with regard
to the estimates. He understood the House would
riot sit nit Thursday, arid the Navy arid Ordnance
stood for to.morrow night. He should wish to
know whether both were to he brought on?
The Morquis of LONDONDRRRY said, that by
accident the Ministers were unable to attend at an
early hour this evening, but that this was not likely
to occur again during the Session. lie therefore
wished it to be understood that they should be ready
to go into the public Wittiness at liall.past four
every day in future, if that hour answered the views
of Gentlemen on the 'opposite side. He was most
anxious that all the estimates should undergo the
fullest and most alliterate discussion. For which
purpose he thought it would he desirable that Tuea
days and Thursdays should be the days for notices,
and Wednesdays and Fridays for Committees of
Supply.
Mr. Hung said he was desirous of doing every
thing in his power to accommodate those Gentle-
men .who were intrusted with the charge of the esti-
mutes. He should be every day at Its post at half-
past four o'clock.
At the suggestion of the SPEAKER, it was agreed
that the Army Estimates should be received to-mor-
row, the Navy ou Friday, and the Ordnance Oil
Monday.
Colonel DAVIES gave notice, that to-morrow he
should move no humble Address to his Majesty,
praying that the officers on half-pay should get
employment.
COURT OF ADMIRALTY (SCOTLAND) DILL.
The LORD ADVOCATE moved the third reading
of the Scotch Admiralty Bill.
Lotcl A. 1-IantLTON made rime objections,
which we could Hot distinctly hear, to the clause
which related to compensation.
The LORD ADVOCATE said, he had consulted
the Bar, mid all the legal bodies in Scotland, rela-
tive to this Bill, and the result of his inquiries
made him confident to say that it did not coniaiu
one single objectionable douse.
Mr. HOWL said, lie hark 110 communication on
the subject with any but persons interested in the
BA I.

The Bill was then read the third lime ■nd passed.
SCOTCH COURT OF SESSION BILL.
After a few ohsersurinns tiom Lord A. 1111111.-
TON, the LORD ADYOC&TR, and Mr. Hutu, the
Scotch Court of Session Bill was taken into further
consideration, and ordered to be read the third
time or► Friday next.

Mr. Hums oioved for various returns relative
to the pay and distribution of the Marines, Engi-
neers. and Artillrna ' --
After which the House adjourned at half-Nast
eight o'clock.

. . ,
'Was far bend the 'hounds of wan Intl decoruek. bet before is the array, or which 147 were by perAseite... cases mcnti y the IlootMerokee iscnerea was
fie was (pa to sure that the gallant 'Officer would HS wit I perelmse; that there were 1,4'10•
this :—An ' _entitled to, Sall hit commis-
Assigns Y. wkoziltiiiL.7 sit 1
I not tell any Gentleman outside of the bar, that be matted, tit. lions ;a - hive a Cep-
would vote I,ooof. where only 100/. was sufficient, ar„,deg '="•(l4+' .1,4,,,, 1 ; 04 Imp taincua efemedir,.se eel trey ie Oen ; sad
• .
upon the Minister's asking it. r it might pp high khoserotraisiissiora were is a
The Sraeotta said, it certainly had not struck —.
t • flikargnejt. the atgiest eibmanded second but ,and that ha the interlin between his
. . SRI
him that the Hoe. Member who spoke last but one for of filling OP all *kopeks from the hallegol. obtaining permission tti sell end his Meeting with a
was out of odor in what he was stetin . Undoubt. imisks_ Wog AduaduLmisj, iiise."....Nielwr____ 0
._
..
.. _ • emostrdered-iwbreaducted.
feeitr ilt:Mildlincilusilf7ValW,o iiorlii earned iiitsiiirecT;ithout considerable its. thwt eat, ijr-e puvehrear "'solid Alston a re•mi•-
iecheekiel, ,isore psy particular body of Members justice to many parties. It seemed to have beet .!ioa-ett helf-tpay. Bif it sorely would at be just,