The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1806-02-26 00:00:00

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the amount of thirty millions sterling. It
soon be in vain to disguise font the public, that
this enormous accumolkion of debt must, under
the present systetn, oltimetelyiell upon this country.
" I have been," contintied Mr.,Fran;cie,r " the most
sincere and faithful servant of this unwilling and un-
grateful Company. Many years have now elapsed,
since 1 recommended to them to relinquish altoge-
ther a sovereignty which they knew to be only no-
minal. It can be of no use to retain the name of
it ; for, in fafl, the Company has no more in its
hands of the government of India, than I have ; and
they cannot even purchase their inrettment at Ben-
gal, but with loss, and engaging in a trade which
the natives always were averse to."
Lord CASTLEREAGH explained, that in de-
scribing the state of India, in 1803, he by no means
over-rated its situation, when he said it was pros-
perous and affluent. There was at that time a clear
surplus to the Company of 11,000,0001. but the
public were only to come in for a participation
in a combined surplus of the profits. In the en-
suing year, there was unpaid, an extraordinary duty
on tea, on the sales of which the Company was, pre-
viously to that time, a gainer, to the amount of
'200,0001. and they were forced to pay a tax of about
half a million, which made so much difference in
their profits, and consequently retarded the partici-
pation of the public. As to the exportation of bul-
lion for four millions of investments, every one, ac-
qoainted with the subjen, must know. that the trade
with China could net be carried on without it.
Mr. FRANCIS explained, that his observation
respeaing the expor toting) of bullion, did not refer
to the China trade, but what was remitted to India
only.
Mr. C. GRANT that rose, and began by ob-
serving, that whatever might be the opinions of
Honourable Gentlemen in that House relative to
the affairs of the India Company, he thought no
good consequence whatever could possibly arise
from going at this particular moment into any ar-
couni-nts relative to the charter of the Company,
or any of the points especially involved in it. An
Honourable Gentleman had delivered his opinion at
considerable length oo the situatieo of the C9fn.
',any's affairs, and that opinion mast always be en-
titled to considerable weight, from his great know-
lerlg and long residence in the country ; but
whatever either that Honourable Member. or any
ro hers, might think of this, he himself was confident,
that if the sovereigntyrif the India Company was to
be taken into the hands of any administration of this
countrytit would be the most dengeroul to the consti-
tution of any thing that could happen to it. This was
not a time to adopt any matters of innovation, or
alteration, and he feared the many attempts which
had been made to charge the Company with blame,
in not having made good their payments to Govern-
ment, at the particular times at which they had
beets sopulated to be made, would tend to no other
purpose, than to alarm the public mind, and to
render that mote difficult which the pressUre of cir-
cultism: ces, and the untowardness of unforeseen
events, had already made too much so. It was not
his intention to go into all the arguments which
had been used nn the present occasion ; but there
were some particular points of which he thouto it
necessary to take some notice, and to which he
would request the attention of the House. With
respell to the exportation of bullion, of which the
Honourable Gentlemen had said so much, he could
not by any means agree with them in opinion, that
it was impossible for the Company to gain any thing
by it. Every one who knew the nature of the
commerce of India. most be sensible that bullion is,
in that country, at different times, extremely va-
rious in its operations. It frequently happens,
in the intercourse with the people there, that
you can purchase infinitely cheaper by the
payment of specie, than you possibly can by
barter. Yon have a greater occasion for their
produce than they have for your's, and consequent-
ly, if you were to go always on the principle of bar-
tering one commodity for another. you would do it
at a much greater disadvantage, than if you were to
pay in bullion. which is always acceptable. A
great deal of the bullion exported, had also been
sent for the purpose of lessening the Company's
' debt in India, and a plan had been formed for the
gradual liquidation of the whole ; but as the Noble
Lord near him, had justly observed, wars had un-
fortunately broken out. and so rapidly succeeded
each other, since that plan was formed, that they
have absorbed, and anticipated all the specie sent
out for that purpose. This disadvantage, however,
ought not to be attributed to the Company's com-
mercial concerns, but to the political events which
were so intimately blended with them, that they
could not be separated. Much stress had been laid
by the Hon. Gentlemen on the surplus mentioned
in the AEI of 1795. but he could assure the House,
there never had been any such surplus since that
time, and therefore the Company could na pay it.
Statements were easily made on any subjeft, hut
sure he was, the Company in as much as depended
on their own manto,terzient of their commercial con-
cerns, had nut in any way been to blame ; and the
Job' which had theta heavily accrued, was entirely
owing to those political incidents which were so in-
separably interwoven with their commercial con-
cerns. As to the amount of the debt, he was sorry
to say, it was very great, and he believed it might
be upwards of 10.000,0001. and if the accumula-
tion were suffered to go on, the consequences would
doubtless be very injurious, if not eventually ruin-
ous. But whether the the specie intended to lessen
it, were to be sent nut by the Government or by the
Company, he believed it would amount to exaOly
the same thing. He had boatd some intimation
given of moving for a :cleft Committee to inquire
into the state of the debt of the India Company.
He. for one, should oirjes to the appointment of any
such Committee, unless the cbjeet of it were clearly
defined ; for he wets sure the Company's accounts
were so clear, it would be easy for His Majesty's
Ministers to investigate them, without adopting any
such measure. He begged to ask the Hon. Gentle-
man who brought forward the present Motion. whe-
ther he had no other reason in doing so, but to en-
quire into the debt of the Company ? if nut, he was
sure there was no occasion for it.
Mr. FRANCIS said. it was very material that
the House should indulge him so far as to allow
him to say one word in explanation. He begged
the House to recollect that he had never said a sa-
lable of his intention or v. ish to alter the internal
government or the original constitution of the Cons-

•
I• any. He only said, that he had told the Company
long ago, that he would advise them to part with
their Sovereignty, as they derived so benefit horn
it, and were only overawed and ruled by the Boar
of Cnntroul. He thought it necessary to repeat
this distinCtly, in order to avoid any misrepresenta-
tions which might go abroad on the suhj 1, And
which night be turned and to isted for the
pernicious purposes, very foreign to any thing he
had really said, or intended to say,
Mr. Secretary FOX begged Wye to trouble the
House with a few words. He agreed with the
Hon. DireCtor (Mr. C. Grant), that it would not be
right to go further into this business, than was ab-
solutely necessary ; but still it might be right to in-
stitute an inquiry iota it He never understood his
Hen. Friend to say, that he wished fur any alteration
in the constitution of the Company, but only that he
found fault with a particular part of it. This we-
a point extremely reconcileable to reason, and he
himself had, in the abort time he had now sat in that
seat, had occasion to express himself in the same
way, on a matter similar in its circumstances. He
disapproved the measure of the Union with Ire-
land, as well as the the manner in which it had been
carried. But though both these were, in his
opinion, bad, that was no legislative reason why the
measure itself shouli4 be altered or set aside. He
also disapproved the government of the India Com-
pany, but thought it much better to put up with
any particular, partial, and peaflical inconve-
niences, that might result from it, than run the
risk of injuring it still more by any alteration. The
lion. Director had alluded to an intention of mov-
ing for the appointment of a Select Committee : for
his own part, this was the first word he had heard
of such a thing. If it should, however, appear
hereafter, that the affairs and accounts of the Com-
pany were of such An lisped, that they could not be
easily comprehended, then a Committee might per
haps be desirable : if, on the other hand, they were
of a nature to be understood immediately, there
would then be no occasion for a committee. Some
inquiry into the matter of the surplos seemed to
him to be indispensibly necessary. There might,
perhaps, be many reasons, and some of these of
great weight, why such surplus had not been duly
appropriated ; but it was a monstrous proposition to
say, that after a serious investigation of the Com-
pany's affairs had taken place, so long ago as the
year 1793, and that the President of the Board of
Commit then told the House, there was a surplus
of half a million, and, in consequence, an aft was,
at his particular instance, brought into this .louse,
and passed, for the due appropriation of that sur-
plus; it WAS, surely, lie said, a monstrous proposi-
tion, for the President of the same Board, in the
year 1803, to come to that House, and say, there
was no surplus. It was incumbent on those who
had had the management of the Company's affairs,
to shew the incidents and misfortunes which had
arisen to prevent such a surplus. For his own part,
he believed it had arisen, and was owing, to false
reasons having been resorted to, and rumours reised,
of our being engaged in wars, when, in truth and
fee, we were not so. He thought it very material,
and highly important, to investigate, in order to
find out how all their golden hopes had been so
grievously disappointed ; and this appeared to him
the more necessary, that they may avoid still hold-
ing nut false hopes to the public, and thus give rise
to continued and increasing disappointments. Truth,
said he, may certainly be alarming ; but he thought
it much more dangerous to hold out false hopes ;
and he would ask, which had produced the greatest
danger, a true statement of difficulties and dangers,
when they had *dually occurred, or a mysterious
and hollow concealment of their true situation ?
For his part, he thought, that when you come to
examine, too much vigilance in el:eating the worst
part of a case, would be tar less mischievous, than
too great a willingness to dress it up with false bland-
ishments, and to believe your situation to be highly
flattering and prosperous, when it is very much the
contrary. He begged pardon for having trespassed
on the House an long, but he thought it necessary
to make these observations; he had but one more
to offer on the subjeCt, which was, that in his opi-
nion, .4 there was no one subjefl in His Majesty's
dominions, whose merit, respecting the afriirs of In-
dia, could be put in competition with that of his
lion. Friend (Mr. Francis) "
Lord MORPE spoke very shor•ly, hut in so
low a tone, that we could not distinctly hear what
he said, further than that to the principal M nines
there was no objeftion made; but he seemed to feel
an objection to one or two of them. That it would
be recolleOed the 500,0001. payable to the Troi-
sury, had only been made in one instance ; that lie
would be sorry to come forward to impede, in the
least, any Lair inquiry ; but that be thought some
of the Resolutions irrelevant to the purpose. for
which they seemed to be I ramed.
Sir T. MEI'CALFE assured the House he would
only trouble them with a very few words. It was
extremely well known to every Member in that
Hone-, that for many years pact the expences of
the Company had been very much on the increase ;
and nothing could be more self-evident than this,
that while expences were increasing, there could he
nu surplus. He only wished on one point to sheen
that during the time the 500,00'4 had not been
paid to the Treasury, Government had receiv .d
advantages which were abundantly Adequate. .He
begged the House to recolleCt the period when she
Right Honourable Gentleman, at the head of His
:Majesty's Government, brought forward the tax of
12i per cent. on teas, by way of commutation for
other taxes, no one thought the Company would
hive afterwards mare to pay than that tam of
12; per cent. Instead of which, the tax en teas
had since been raised to 95 per cent. If the duty
during that period had contisined at HS per cent.
the Company would have paid 'ampulla more
than 5,000,0001. but from the progressive rise of
the duty to its present amount, they had paid up-
wards of 17,00).0001. so that the Treasury have
received 12,000,0001. more than they weall h..ve
done, if the first stipulation had been adhered to ;
and thereby the public has derived more advan-
tages than the Company, who have been also de-
prived of that sum towards the di:cherge of the
payments alluded to.
Mr. Aldermen PIIINSEP said, he felt as moth
as any one the denger of alarming the puldic mini
in rt Era to the state "f the Company's Affi;rs ; hut
ha had thought it his duty, more than once, to
state to the II nor. what he thettta en :Let sohate::

•
when it occasionally came before them for thei
co,sideration. He WAS now of rpini n, noir
Nlajesty's Ministers, who had lat,ly taken nos
them so great a responsibility, ought, In dwy rn
themselves, to cause such invesrig.tiOns to ;4,
place, as to satisfy themselves whether the amat:,
amount of the present debt, has accreted from alc.4.
rag commerce, or from .1 gees" increase of miltary
force and military expenditure. They ought to
endeavour to find out the means of reconcili: g the
paradox of a surplus and an increasing deli ; A
flourishing state of affairs, and An exhausted revert'',
and decreasing commerce, can exit: a: on.. an j the
same moment, inch, concerns of .Ir, same Coo p
lln hape.l sort 1: enoriii y, either irra'rlic or p:iv.tte,
would take place, and that speedily ; for, At t, the
present system of revenues and resources, he sas
nothing in it but deiution and deception, nighiy
dangerous in their contiLuance.
hir. JOHNSTONE said, he had hot very La
words to offer on the subjed. He had paid very
pat ticular attention to the affairs of the India Co r.
pany, anti had endearioured to make himselt AS %S.l'
acquainted with them .as it spas in his powe ; 411
he thought the pre ern question premztare ! :
would only mention, very briefly, one or two
He concurred in cphr • with what had bevy we...!
by the'Diredors, 1/..r n r blame whatever attache:l
to them from the fa :!are of their payments ; they
had suffered from a large military estabEihmeat,
the ex orrice% of which had been so grey:, it was im-
possitrle they could make good the.r payments.
Another was, that no Selet Committee of that
Hon-e could be necessary for the iavestigarion
the Company's accounts ; for they were. made set
in a manner so perfeetly clear and intelligible, that
no one at all acquainted with figures could r)ossidy
mistake or misapprehend them ; and, on all ;,-r i.
sums, when the affairs of the Company had been le-
fore t' e House, the precise difference between vas
Nohle Lord (Castlereagh) and him had been, twat
the Noble Lssrd went into estimates, and he con-
tended for results.
Sir 11. INGLIS sued, the reason why Govern-
ment had not participated iii the promi.ed par.
merits was, that in 1793. When the.c tuner was rea.
newel, hopes were entertained, that the war would
very won he at an end ; but, unfortunately, those
hopes had been disappointed, and we had ever since
been engaged in war, either with the French or the
Native Fusee's, and sometimes with both, by which
the debt had been enormously increased. ar.d that
expellees of the war had been placed to the /Oat
of the Company's accounts, with no otheratliowance
than the difference between a war arid peace
establishment ; and yet, from the account made
out since 1793, it would appear, that the C .m-
-pany's dividends bad been paid out of the prcfi-s of
their trade. As to a Select Committee, he was cer-
tain nothing could be done by it that would not be
better effected by His Majesty's Ministers foe ming
the Board of Contr.-oil,

Mr. Alderman PRINSF.P explained.
Mr. PAUL recimitela:ed several of his former
statements ; and said, in ad,lition, that he could not
but view this immense debt of the Company, as
striking at the existemx of the funded interest of the
country. He never blamed the Direlors for what
had Seen done by them, but, as to the Noble Lord's
statement of the &lit being owing to the wares he
denied it; and insisted, on the contrary, the) had
not been expensive enough ; for, when the war
broke out, they were totally unprepared, and were
obliged to raise tl e means of defence, at a very
enormous extraordinary exoence, in consequence.
He insisted also, that the increase of the debt was
owing to money having been borrowed in India, at
10, 12, and IS per sees:. for the purposes of corn-
merce, aoil he would engage to prove, before a
Committee, a less on the bengal commerce, of act
less than 5,500,0001. borrowed on laying on invest-
ments. He had teen asked, by an H us. Direftor,
whether he had any other reason for making this Mo.
lion, than to investigate their debt f His answer
was, he had a most important reason, and tha: was,
for fixing the responsibility where it ought to lodge,
and that he u.ought was in the Government in
I ilia, wl.ich he would pledge himself to prove,
before a "deft Committee.
Lord C.%STLERIiAGi l explained.
Mr H. ADOINGTON said, he did net The
to objeB to the Motion, but he thoeght that di the
proper period arrived, wnen the documer.ts should
Ile laid before the House, on which a entre& opi•
nion may be formed, the Hon. Gentleman would
do well to abstain from all expressions of warmth
and asperity towards the coniluift of a Noble Per-
sonage, who was not then present to detend himself.
or to acconot for hes conduct. He hoped. therefore.
tile Hon. Gentleman would desist from such a prc-
ceeding.
Mr. PAUL said, that in opening the matter of
Isis motion, he had never once mentioned the name
of the Noble Personage alluded to by the Her.
Gentleman, nor even, in the most distant manner.
Noted at him ; but, in answer to the question of an
lion. Direanr, he had said, '..that be had something
hunter in view than a revision of the Company"
debts ; that he wished to place the responsibility
whete it ought properiy to lodge ; and that be
thought that was the Government is lis
saying this, he saw no wAttnth or asperity of ex-
pression toward* the Noble Personage alluded v.
The question was then put on LOA several mo-
tions, and :tweed to.
JOINT ACCOUNT.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
moves for toe appointment of a Cornrnittee to iTi-
vc.stiitate the joint account between Great Pt it2.:l
and Ire:and, woich was agreed to, axl the folloa-
ing Menv,ers, among others, whose names escaped
us, nominated to'compvse the same :
Loa H KttA s.r John Stewart,
1.0,4 C...tiereszh, Mr. Mira... me,
FIWIer. theul4..l,
Mr. Co.:ry, Mr. N. Vaimit3rt.
Mr. M Stewart,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
gave notice, that he would. on Thutsdsq.
tor leave to bring i 3 a Bin to regulate the office of
Treasurer of His Majesty's Ordnance.
Lord TEMPLE gave notice that lie would, or.
Tursday, move her a Committtee to consider (4
the 116 t for regulating the Greenland Wb.sL
Fishery.
Tito Irish Land Parti•ion Bill was read a seem.
'inn., and ordered to be committed on Tow s ray.
Tne other Orders of the Day were then dispose
of, and tee iI eae a.+; •.)