The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1825-05-27 00:00:00

=

. . „ ....... .
' Noble Lord inJoh! illessell), that there. was ugly as isms br
which Catholicanapation could beebtatned„ re
was by
division of the °moment : a secession of that pan of his Ma.
jetty's :Ministers who supported the roe from the .Councils of
the King. Rat he (Lord L. • that named of
.
01006,01
such being likely to be the result d a nature, the en!
that would ensue from it would be is Emancips.
tion itself ; end feeling thus he justified in apt
wlthdrawing Itis support from his MejseljObiloptenunait on th-.
present acestaffr • and therefore if the Ileitinjbauld come to s
division he diva. however reluctantly, oppeseliffilesation.
Tile CHANCELLOR of the EXCALQUEffinhsened, that if
he thought the production of the flame retered Ise by the Hie.
Member for Limerick would tend to the' object which
that lion. Gentleman had hi view, herginistffilmitedler e the Ex-
chequer) should not have the lees; olejeetie to ithdr being imme-
diately produced. The objesterhich dish Illen thinhoten stated he
had In calling fur these parse teas time entree die dissatisfac,
tion in Ireland, which might haree bees esetted b'y a recent decision
in Parliament. The Hon. aehdesnan declared it to be his opinion
that the producthin of the dowernents in question would have that
effect ; but after the best camlideration which he (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer) could give the subject, he confessed he did not see
how that effect was to be produced by the production of the dom.
molts, even supposing they.contained every sentiment which the
Hon. Member for Limerick imagined them to do. It was natural
to believe that in the correspondence which the Government
had had with the Noble Alarquis at the head of the Irish
Government, regarding the state of that unfortunate country.--
for unfortunate he could not help calling her (hear, hear, hear)--
it um natural to believe that in that were correspondence there was
much matter, the publicity of which would he calculated to_prudaht
quite an opposite effect to that anticipated by the Hon. Member,
and upon that ground alone he should oppose their production. be
was bound, in justice to his Hon. Friend, to say that, upon a quest
tion of so much interest and importance, he had stated his case and
opened his question in a manner calculated to produce the very
effect he so much desired, and that the production of the papers
would only increase that agitation, and produce that result which
his Hon'. Friend was most anxious to avoid. With regard to the
discussion on the main question, he did not, at the periods of its
debates, feel himself called upon to trouble the House with any
remarks, because he thought it quite unnecessary to do so. The
question did not requite any new advocacy—or rather, it bad a
better advocacy than those could give it who had on forma occasions
supported the question, for it had the advocacy of nubby who had
hitherto opposed it. But although he had not addressed the House,
yet be did sot show in a doubtful manner what were his sentimenta
on the question. Not only had he made them apparent by the rota
which he gave on the principal question, but by those lie had aloe
given on the tso other accompanying me:murex. He gave those
votes certainly with great reluctance, and not without considerable
doubt and hesitation; but he gave those votes, nevertheless, because
he believed by doing so lie should be rendering the main and im-
portant question a greater degree of support than he otherwiseshouM
do. A Noble Lord (Lord John Russell) had said, that although he
could not conceive by what reasoning it was that those of his Mates.
ty's Ministers who supported this measure could reconcile it to their
minds to follow the course they did with regard to it, yet he would
do them the justice to say that he believed they acted in the Iran.
net they did from a conscientious sense astute. In the forme.'
Session, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequers had expressed his
letedosents with regard to the situation of the Government as to this
rtlar question ; and those sentiments be still retained. But
. now say, that if lie thought by resigning his situation
be should_ be furthering the cause of Catholic emancipation, Ile
would do so immediately. (Hear, hear.) Ile did not say this for
the purpose of effect. He made the declaration of this sentiment
to relieve his own conscience. (Hear, hear.) But as he did nut
see that such a step on his part would have this effect, he
could not conceive that he was bound to resign his situation,
especially when it appeared that the country was satisfied
with the present Government, and that its interests would not be
promoted if that Government were to be broken up. With respect
to the fate of the measure in the other House, he far one could not
see, notwithstanding the result, that there was any reason for the
friends of Catholic Emancipation to despair. lie found, in the first
place, that most remarkable circumstance, namely, that among the
Representatives of Ireland there was a very large increase of /tim-
bers who considered that the carrying of this measure, so far from
being dangerous to Ireland, was essential to its continuance as •
pant of thus empire. He found also that there were many who h
this country had hitherto been adverse to the question, were now
its supporters; and although it was true that in the other House
of Parliament there was a very different opinion entertained them
what there was in this, yet even there he observed some Nib-
ble Lords bad felt it their duty to me in favour of the men.
sure, which in former Sessions they had strenuously opposed. It
did not therefore appear to him that the failure of it this Ses.
sion rendered the question so hopeless as it might be the interest of
some persons to represent it, or as many of its friends sere too in.
dined despondingly to consider it. As the motion before the
House had been sufficiently MEC by his Right Ilonourable Friend
(the Secretary for the Hume Department,) he should not enter into
his reasons for opposing it more than he had already done ; but be
could not avoid stating what he had to the House, because
be certainly felt anxious to vindicate himself and those with shorn
he acted who were favourable to the Catholic Question, from
the insinuation, that the conduct which they conceived themselves
justified in pursuing resulted from one inclination—to remain in
office.
Lord GRAVES noticed certain remarks which had fallen from
as Hon. Gentleman (COl. it - . ... . ..

Bagwell we believe) in reference to the
speech of a Noble Marquis, and he spoke in vindication of that
Noble and Gallant Officet's conduct on the recent debate in the
other House of Parliament. The Noble Marquis never spoke of
turning his sword against the Irish ; lie made use of a technical ex-
pression (a laugh), and he meant it in a civil point of view. ()loch
laughter.) He (Lord Graves) thought himself bound to vindicate
the conduct of the Noble Marquis, and to resist the insinuation
that bad been made against his character.
Colonel BAGWELL (as we understood) explained.
lie. BROUGHAM and Mr. GALWAY (we believe) rose at
the same instant. Mr. Brougham being loudly called for, he ob-
served, that if the House had not made the call, he certainly should
have given way to the Honourable Gentleman. He was afraid he
was about to do what was very contrary to the fashion of the nightl
for he intended to enter a little into the subject matter or
the motion now before the House. The Right Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. Peel) had offered various arguments against
the documents being granted. In the first place he said, why
should they go back an far? it was a vague motion. If that was
the sincereobjection of the Right Hon. Gentleman to the measure,
he (Mr. Brougham) was sure that he could tell bow to remedy the
defect; but it the Right lion. Sectetsry would do it, be (Mr.
Brougham), with the permission of his Hon. Friend (Mr. S. Rite),
would, by the simple introduction of the words, " within the last
24 or 12 months." The next objection was that the pa pen were
unnecessary, and that it was inexpedient to produce them, as
their production might work harm to the country. This objec-
tion might be answered by inserting into the motion the words
—" in so far as the same can be produced, without de Tiniest
to the public interest. Then came an objection which was of
a very strange and singular description. The Right Honourabill
Gentleman asked—" How do you know that there is such a paper
in existence ?" Why, if he (Mr. Brougham) did not • know it
before, he knew it now, because if there had not been any such pa-
pet the Right Hon. Gentleman would have said so. But as to
the argument that there was no necessi.y for the production of the
papers, there he and the Right Hon. Secretary were quite at issue.
It had been said that the noble and excellent individual at the head
of the government of Ireland had advised certain coercive measure'
to be adopted towards that country. Now what he (Mr. B.) wished
to know was, how this advice was given, in what way that noble perses
had qualified it, and what were the facts which he assigned for suet
measures ? These were important particulars to be ascertained;
for such a recommendation, it was fair to presume. was attended
with certain quatifications. How had this Session berm ? Had
the House forgot it was recommended by the Comm sad the;
nothing else had been done except following that reessomeodation,
that they should adopt some measure respectiag the Catholic Asso-
ciation. And how had the steps which were taken in pursuance
of that recommendation justified ? It was grounded on the ex-
perience and observation of the Noble Lord at the head of the
Irish Government, and the result of that observation and experience
alone was. that a new arm of power bad been given to the Govern-
tnent of that country. If any man ever had reason to complain, it
was that great and Noble Lord who now governed Ireland. Under
his sway that country might have been great and happy but lie
was disabled from rendering it so by one man pulling one way, and
another another. if this country stood compromised in its conduct,
how stood that venerable nobleman, the Vicegerent of Ireland?
That Noble Lord had recommended coercioi, but it was coupled, es
he (Mr. B.) understood, with advice for conciliation. The Govern-
ment had given coercion because the Lord Lieutenant had recom-
mend it; but they had withheld conciliation. (Hear.) Was it not
fair :hen that his-lion. Friend (Mr. S. Rice) should ask, in justice
to the Noble Marquis, for the correspondence, to see whether that
Noblemen had recommended and advised such a measure as was
neither harsh nor ungracious in its tendency ? But it was deoi•4
because it would be perceived, that his Majesty's Government had
make a false estimate of what the times required, and had only
auk °bloke of that which went to coerce ; but had rejected by the
1•11111 i of the other House of Parliament that which would bare
eseeiliated. He had heard that this Catholic question had been us.
happily opposed by certain persons whose names it was contrary to
the rules of the House to mention. He had no right to break in upon
that etiquette (fur it was nothing else), which prevented the Men..
ben of this House to allude to any thing that had occurred else-
where, although the fact was well known, that there was not a
arlour or a commas smoking-room in all England, Wales, and
reland, where the people might not safely, and without hearing
I
ally thing about a breach of privilege, discuss any one speech of
any one Noble Peer, in any we night, on any one question. and
out hear any thfisg more after it than before. But he had heard
that a speecii was made by a very high personage nese the throne,
which had been circulated throughout Ireland in fine printed cha-
racters, by Mr. Benbow, he believed, who was the greatest libeller
is the three kingdoms. This person had printed and circulated a
speech that never was, nor ever could bespoken by that royal person-
age. lie dare say the Attorney General had already filed a aion
inlonnation against this Benbow, because any thing more sandal
•
ous—more outrageous to that Illustrious person, could not be made'
than to make him say that he was determined he would not, nem
he came to the throne, govern, according to the Constitution—but
that scandalous, false, and calumnious libel made the Boke of
York say that whicb King James 11. never dreamt of, mat least
never whispered in favour of the Catholics; that he intended to
govern the Protestants in a spirit of opposition to the Catholics.
vrkb Now 40 the expression of the Marquis of Anglesey, h
(Ni. 8.1 wwilekved that it was very harmless. The Noble Marlin
Inge rale% „Pat SI inexpert at tanking speeches as be (31r.