The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1821-03-13 00:00:00

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___. owe icivilf. 11151-- tr. ip,1ttt0,7,0"'"...,
rr%it woo:. Tiiii----iweivitikraithe; buttm
ia.de,.Mr Jobe Poring, Ildenese .111peh, terioas
ibMlbellas JeOlfors Seth. sled the flenioyesw, let Brie-
r= j:$l4(C/9 _ _ iilulMilNdesebi tAlho 'flames
Sere earn two beers -te peg sac
Vries, Asa 1 ...Mt we 'llet particular** of tine
li elf ‘ the piettes wife the gaoler
' . 221/11:17.1b, wets lillastMwE Ol Weymouth I,:r the bee-
lit _ hoolitre.(Nolorviars).-Aa le the dieser, elm-
* wee t Messer for Tseetee, eel
Sesoomble eaVinerilishser,lluid hotted themselves 'Milled
.!* 1... . \ ilkivday, ft somIJ -he as well for the' Illoseitelde 9/ifsie.
~- depiseisP, mks tad* meth raj led she jokester's dri
ratinitivir of Ableretee,
the
tortoises *bey waprobtoffilldb4
. flop, to alio awoke hoseadools neflteass
Esser
Sher egg**. The tea* beepreed Itlide
sodas, who wore said daehatre se
, amorsoted toe free to the pee =ralt.
• * tbrteroltoys, sod tee sold beef fee the whole wire pre.
'vow, se they were vise es lostediesety to Exeter, it de.
'-• (0180,1,w. her).—Tho His. Aldermen' • Ars Mod
~' it Wets he hod received Ines Sir foe Perris( is
fi ra41.1101114, rowill hi., Nat 1. With respect 14.,
about es meth w* said the other
*Mt was se a biegle words. lie eldest ha the Rirp
(Mow, hoer.) •1..1
Ilir.ll. RUNTISH sold, Ail he seirtalely had hewed Ilie
bee ebellitatri *Pam stet 4J• was, however, ikso
Itoisid so we f . erfaitost4 eteSeonst now wade Iry the
worthy alessesio; he. believed ii, Alton% had it
' We relied ,tat' asp seer prom it might hare appeared
otraookoll hiewedilde. that dee Alevines sod two fierirevers
. .1.11,1 4120 I I A OW mown ihoi 6e a IL h.—(Mash
-7W. ninon *sashes oedeml
impriso. toemmis OP DOPER.
qfr.WORTH • preereted • Petit*. from the
iceirdweineve of Dover, .essorteisieg of the decay of their
L\vies is eaaartmearia of the great quantity of Fres& bees
ass. shoes Itairodueod la that town.
iiiiNl- WILSIANAI4 supported the Pedtiollollllll9lll
gamma, v se the tree of its. seseeeseets.
. gea,....-4 to be pissed. !: • -
A'easuNt free the Lords anesseced that tbele. Lewd-
Aim hod mg, Ned all tertian Mill; end russeleiest Mr.
tows Driameak* *Mk II Allowed* •141101401seexs.
eased bolero Stair ' famooi.. 9...u510.4.411imi5s Trade.
gars we, a inforitted that Stet Imo amid return
ell sewer ley ilbearea.:aell of its owe.
• Me. J. P. GRANT oared fog as Armes* of the total
lissotily of Sr timhe !, bulks, dean, sod hastens, imparts'
ink, &who'd final p erway, from 1790 to 1890 ischnive
lb,iliarinseng the sever ,e 1 quilethlis he each par.—Ordered!
• . 2,04 CITED ORAIIE.
...11i9 E. WILISON ism Is elk lb/ Rite Hos. Geeing*.
f 10'104 1011. 6 Itirei to lb/
erretios of the 4.lst
1g: 111. eel ens* of Amalie? Mace*, for roasting
stop,. m of of si ee. He wished to know if
41
wee :le "0„191. of came `moment to proceed is all cases
:of Ilde kisd possen the Act st ebielt he bad jest named.? If woe,
lg=er Nigh! Hen. Goi *dense would not press for oho
• ightsisterl by the is edict against Henry Huss. Ile
suseasseMpfl Skit this sobjoct had lard attracted the notice
of Goversomod arid of those Crinkle's who W interested
themselves about the aisle:saris of Agriculture. The general
nnOf rented grade awtoug lb., liaboorieg poor would cause
se hemmed consumption of 9 ,1100,1041 heath, lly, a
romatity equal its vales to mealy 3,01100901. He had for-
merly, made ea sprits-Wee to the Right Hon. Gentlest's
epos skis very eetteet, to knew 'shot wee the determined's',
•of Goressigoese as to the right of preporiec pain to he weed
'Ns toffee. The Right Hoe. destines had amend hi.,
though be did set exactly know the low es the subject, that
fleverbeet woo* attempt se proesseep sexiest the reset.
in ra im beam Ado for the cossinplion of the phut. '
rgyenum ansuronett of the Right Hos. Gentleman be bad
saddled the doubts of some who had applied to his, and
' lad *Wrestled, 'Whet Weeding it, to the diMeulties of
the iggerroisere, epos whose case he was recombine. He
widetal to ten if the Right /105.Gentlessa intended to rt,.
vied rigorously with the interpretatioas of dl George 111.,
and if the resettles retargeted were to be esforcid agahut
Henry Heel ! '
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER made some
reply which wise iselerstood to swain a disavowal of having
ensisbed say grossed fir the emiduct of the pliant Ge-
neral.
' -•tat R. WILSON said, that he had not used the name of
`She Right lion. Celine* on the occasion. He had unly
we that asinirsaase to the parties applying to him which
the fair impart of the words used by the Right Hon. Gentle-
*he warranted him in &hog. He was not aware that hie
`tended oat say occultist fad entitled him to the remarks
mink epos it by the Right Hos. Gentleman.
•• Dr. LUSH I NGTON ' Worsted a Petition from certain
`inhabitants of Lowden, Southwark, and West minter, strongly
objecting to the clause isi the Grampooad Franchise Traeger
gill, which limited the right of voting to renters of SOL said
:proving for a Wider eiteesios of the suffrage.
s, I R. FERGUSON premeated a Petition from Kirkaldy,
esserNsieing of the general distress felt from the preemie of
tnitanou sod that althoug Aeronomy sad retreochmeut had
bees caiied for by the country, mud recommended in the
speeches (roam the Throne, nothing had yet been attempted
by mower. in the way of retresebiseat. The Petitioners
lamented also the pneral policy and. *newt of Monsters,
...wildly in taking the steps which they bad done avian
her Majesty tie Queen. He would state, at the samo time,
that a loyal at-Weirs had been forwarded from this Wry
Lugo. ',treed akWeetlier by forty-sine persons, of shoo
seventeen were in tbe pay of Government, out of a parole-
.sion of 18,000. The Petition which he held in his hoed wee
spied by upwards of 500 householders, sod prayed (as the
• only means of relief to the distresses of the country) a re.
Minims of taxes. sad also the restoration to her &Neely of
ail her rights and dignities.
Sir R. FSRGUSON presented another Petition from the
neighbouring Parish to the above, signed by seven hundred
Householders, which stated, that Hoosiers had acted in such
a manner as le A,,frit the confideoce of the country ; and
SCOW for ibe disatil.osil of Maisie's, retrenchment in the
~,apemiltn,e, mem such refOras in tiro orprtseatatation as
would lend to unite the ;chili' with thole who were tom
.aronisally their RepresentstiOo•
Mr. MACQUEEN said a re. words in behalf of those
who had signed the loyal Address"... whom he stated to he
very respectable perms,.
Sir R FERGUSON admitted the re.:Tectaltilily of them
who bad signed she Loyal Address, but cuteM not admit that
they excelled to that respect any of those *Lobe Denied were
subscribed to his Petitions.
SCOTCH BURGHS. '
Sir R. Franutort then rode to make a motion
which he admitted to be not very proper, but it
was not without precedent. lie wished to withdraw
• from the Committee appointed to inquire into the
state of Scotch Burgh.. His ressosis for doing so
were founded chiefly in the •conviction that the
labours of that Committee could never give sat's-
laeitoo to the public, and still less to the people of
Scotland. I-k said this from no feeling of personal
hostility or disrespect to any of the Members
af that Committee ; all that lie felt wrs en ir-
rei,oncilable difference of opinion from the imijo-
of that Committee as to the means most proper
adopted.for the renievatof the veryigrest abuses
'planted of. He felt satisfied that lie could do
good by attending on the Committee, and that

FNof the sm.— _ __
(rowthe Committee, namely, k -
1 o vil m
lain Denim!) felt asoriseed that dig
lo
=srof Semhad would cot be milked wish**
of that Comnsettee. The best coweett.fin
osie gallant Cleumal to have taken would have
foe hiee to attend the Committees sod • • brit,lia
the mejority of which becomplained t
in • •
which oonsidenid best foe the removal
abeam. He (Mr. Macheuzie) bed 'voted feels
appointment of the Committee, in order to gift in
opportunity to those whip had furnished such nu-
merous sod grievous ,complaints to substantiate
their allegatious. He admitted thin the existence
of enormous abuses had been substantiated, and he
believed that the Committee would recommend
reweave* for their reformation of an effectual kind.
The name of Sir IL Ferguson was thee with.
drawn from the Committee.
FELONS COUNSEL BILL.
Mr. M• 9.7111 postponed the secossii reading of
this 11411 till Weduesday se'imight.
nUPPLIIII.
11l thaVrder of the Day for the House resolving
itself Mole Committee of Supply being read—
Mr. Huns rose to move the fitmohnious which he
had befits proposed to the House. They pledged the
House to no 'immediate extent of reduction, but
only to a pineal principle of economy. He begged
the particular attention of Members to this circum-
stance. He concluded by moving-
1. Resolved, That It appears by the (Arial retsina before
ifilmase, that the total military establishment of Great
.and belied, for 1792 (vitcloanve of the Kam Indies,
ta,
. the artillery, militia, rued In arises), consisted of 411.474
maimilLeamely, of 15,919 (or Great Britoil., Gairraiwy, he.;
Wiis the Colosiee abroad ; sad 15,221 in Ireland; mod
le total tedlitary establisbaseut ef Great Britain and
teirlesd ter 11121 (exclusive of the Ram ladies she artillery,
One militia, sad matinee), cuseisis of 51,105 °Sam sad am%
saintly, rt,res Is Great Britain, Guernsey, Ste. ; .132,475
is the C.raloaies abroad; and of 20,778 in trekked.
2. Resolved, That the supplies fur Ilse expense of the mili-
tary establiammest of Great Britain aamd !rehired is 1792
were 9,331,145 L; that the sepplits voted for the military
establishment of Great &halm sad Ireland for 1800 wen
9,500,2101.; and that the Army Estimate. for 1821, sow
submitted to the House, au only 133,4981. ken ikaa thaws
of 1992.
3, Reiolved, 'That there were Is the service of Great W-
ham sod Ittissil, m 1792 (exclusive of the regular cavalry
sod iafaatry, 15,757 troops; namely, 3130 of royal and-
To y, 4,426 of royal wisrisee, aid 17,0011 of disembodied
Militia; and is 1821 (exclusive of the regular cavalry
and infantry) the number of 125,491 troops; namely, 7,279
engineers and artillery, 8.000 royal sunrises, 61,998 die.
embodied militia, and PAN yeomanry saysky sod vo-
lunteer infantry, being in number a larger face by 132,329
men, available fur paillasse of the Governtsest, is this year
Maim is 1729.
4. Resolved, That it in the °pinkie of this House, that,
sender the present eiressenateacee of the country, it is rape-
dime to make a large redaction in the amount sad expedi-
tors elite military eetablialminest, and to opproximate as soon
se possible to the establishusert of 1792, as reeesmineaded
by she Flossie, Container is 1817.
Lord CISTLII2IIII3I wished to know the easel
4d/idiots of the Hoe. Member. if it war merely
to have the Resolutions entered ea the Journal* of
the House, he apprehended that there could be no
great objection. If the motive of the Hon. Mem-
ber was to secure the concurrence of the House its
any general principle as to the necessity of econo-
my. there could be oo great objection to that, pro-
vided the motion were introduced at a proper lime.
He feared lest the Resolutions, introduced as I
now proposed, should be supposed to bear
particularly on the present Ealluistes, in which
cue the principle ought to he brought for-
ward in specific resolutions applicable to the se-
veral details of those estimates. This House, as it
was understood at the last adjouronient, was bound
bessifide logo into the Committee on this evening.
He thought the most natural coarse for the Hon.
Member to take would be to allow the House to
go into the Committee, and there to bring forward
any specific proposition for reduction in the items,
and them, before the bringing lip of the Report, the
Resolution pledging the (louse to the sewersl print
ciple of economy and redustiun might, with pro-
priety, be brought forward and proposed far the
adoption of the Houle.
Mr. Howe said, that if his views were like (bat
of the Noble Lord touching the subject matter of
his Resolutions, he might adopt the mode which
the Noble Lord load suggested ; but in his own
view, that mode was contrary to practice. He
intended his proposition to hive the effect of an ioe
struction to the Committee or a restriction to the
House, to confine the grants to the lowest possible
scale of expense. And he put it to the candour of
the Noble Lord, if the most proper time fur bring-
ing forward such a propmition, was before the
House revolved itself into the Committee, or after
the Committee bad done its labour*. He denied
that he had roucurred iu the understanding of rut.-
feting the House to go without any interruption
into that Committee; ott the contr.ory, he had left
it to be plainly understood that he would take
the first opportunity of bringing forward this very
motion.
Mr. CREEVE2 seconded the motion.
Lord PALII2IIIITON would not eider into the
general argument of the liou. Member, because lie
thought it not a fit subject for deliberation before
going into the Committee. That would be the
proper time for proposing any specific reductions.
But he had other objections. The Hun. Member
bad proposed the resolutions as resolutions of fact,
whereas they contained a great many 'instatement*.
They stated the force on foot in 1792 to be 45.000.
and it was upwiuds of 46,000 men. They stated the
militia to be 17.000, whereas they were. includ-
ing the disembodied militia, 36,000, being an
. omission of 19,000. They elated the incieme
of regular forces, compering this period with
the 26th George ill. to be 32,800 Inure now
than at that period. The statement of the Hon.
Member included the expellee of the disembodied
militia for the year 1821. and excluded that ex-
pense for 1792. This made a difiCresice of itself
equal to 4291. A learned sage of antiquity bid
observed, that there.were two things over which floe
immortal gods bad nu power—prat events, ail
arithmetic. The Hon. Gentleman had assume
this power, whith the suc.ents would net allow to

RIM

•~r~--~,

IPS.

eliOlisharent of cleiks
• -if so, the Hen.

S. be epandered tamable
accuracy statements ; bet he really
thought that the clerks might tete reprimanded for
not doing these duke faithfully: Hchad a good mind
to move fur reams of the "Wailes and emoluments
of the Wbek establishment, in order to render the
neglect of the clerk the more coluspicuoes,, as he
had no doubt that they were most liberally
(" Mar, Iseir."feese Me Minimeriel side ; s. More,
none," Paso Me Oppositias side.)—He would con-
art himself. however, with moving, not for the return
of clerks and their salanes, butthe previous questiun.
Mr. Hume defended the "memento of his reso-
lution. He maintained that there were for the
present establishments 145,000 men kept iu arms,
exclusive of regular forces. " He would ask the
House if thsobjection whe'very valid spinet his
resolutions, that tVey staled the, tudeame of regular
forces to has 64,000; because, as the Noble
Lord maintaissed. . the actual increase we'
36,000 ? Hty talk ,the Noble Lord's admission.
After conteadingtlia hissuktentents were made oat
in the most tcandialialy, and that where there WAS
doubt he had always given it ageing his argument,
he observed, that as to an esioblisfunint of clerk.,
he only wished the Noble Lord was as accurate in
his accounts as he (Mr. Hume) was in his state-
meets, and s economised also; for then. his office
would not cat 60,0001. per annum. He had no
want of assistance in the preparation of his papers;
and- when he had he could get it of a much better
quality, and at a cheaper rate, than the clerks in
the office of the Noble I.erd. Again. he contend-
ed. that there were 93,000 more regitler troops,
and altogether 123,00 e .men in arm. more than
were kept on the estarments of 1792. He in-
vited the House to opt the Resolution'. es a
pledge for enforcing aliononly in the departments.
Mr. TIMIATIit said a few words.
The House divided—
Per the Asseselerat. • ft
Apiast it ..•••11 74
aleieeity
The House resolved itself into a Committee of
Supply.
Lord PA Litigarroli said, that he would not tress
pas on the time of the House by expounding mi-
nute details. They would probably be canvassed
by Hoe. Members, but as he did not know to what
parts their observations would be applied, lie
would content himself wish the opportunity of re-
plying to them. He would simply give an outline
for the consideration of the House. The 'windir'
features of the present estimates were a reduction
of the establishments and a general diminution of
expense. They would prove that wherever reduc-
tion could take place Governmeet had been zealous
in enforcing it ; and whereas in a few instances, there
was increased expense, the House would give them
credit for the disposition to reduce, and consider
that in those instances the iecreaae took place in
sof eicatasstinces over which Govern,
contrel. This principal reductson lied
take* place in the relearn establishments. They
were set up, as the House well knew, in a time of
alarming and imminent danger. The Govern.
went pledged themselves to their reduction in
a time of peace. They had thus proved them-
selves faithful to their pledge, and had besides
sheen that they were worthy of the confi-
dence which the House had placed in them,
by voting estimates beyond the expenses which
would actually be incurred. There would be a
reduction of 9,000 men in the vetern establishments
which would cause a saving of 144,000/. The
expense of clothing had beets smarted for
soother year, or the saving would have been greeter.
The entire reductions of the land force wculd cause
dituuuition of expense equal to 374,000/. This
.would be chiefly effected by the disbanding the
9,000 veterans, and by applying the expenses of
those establishments according to a recommen-
dation of the Member for Curie Castle, to the
recruiting services. Oa the Staff there would
he a diminution of 70001. by reduction* in
Guernsey and Jersey and Ireland. Ou the
public departments there would be a diminu-
tion of 17,0001. On the expenses of the volunteer
corps an increase of 19,000/. Taken altogether
there would be a diminution of 367.000/. On
the expenses of Indian troops end the misuse
aiablishruents. there would be a diminteitio of
4,5001. On the Military College, of which 1,8001.
had been incurred, the real saving for the year
would be 2700/. On the pay of General Officers
a diminution of 4,5001. Owithe full pay retire-
ments of mittial officers, in consequence of the
reductions, there would be an increase of 45,000/.
Ou the half-pay there was a diminution. On the
Chelsea and •KiLmainhant Colleges a dintinutioe.
Oa the Royal Military College a di aaaaa potion of
9,200/. Oa the Widows' Peusious, in consequence
of the law lately passed, allowing them to retain
their pensions after martins., 6,000/. The total
redaction of mew amousited to 8.800, the conse-
quent reduction of charge 145,000/. in round nem-
hero. The Member fur Abingdon wished the
House to confine the estimates; according to the
@deice of the Finance Committee, to the grants of
1817. His Lordship stated the total supplies for 1817,
the details of which he recited to be 8,700,000/.
The supplies sought for the present year were—
Ordinaries L.6,043,960
Extraordsnarias 1,900,000
Commissariat 501,869
B a k expenses 237,400
making a total of about 11.493,000/.; a sum less
than the same total fur 1817, by 266.000/. Such
were the effects of the confidence which the House
bad placed iu Government, by refusing to allow
the instruction to go to the Committee, which had
been proposed with a view to narrowing the services.
A comparison of the two years, 1817 and 1811,
would exhibit a saving on each of the items to
the following amounts
On Ordinaries L.144,990
Extraordiaaries 200,000
Commissariat
Expresses of Barracks
Irish Illemarrey Clothiag 50,000
• (Laughter.)-01 course he did not reckon this

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tipense as among the necessary eseekes ter the
year, but,there would beau actual diminution of
that expense in this year compered with the lard. Ott
the veteran battalions before mentioned there would
he a saving of 80,0001.; a diminution of 40,0001.
on the expenses of militia trainius—altogether
bringing the estimates for 1821 within those of
1817, by the sum of 707,000/. Whether or
not these redactions would satisfy those who
were most earnest in reqniring retrenchment,
he could not say. They would be enough, how-
ever. to satisfy the House that reduction and
economy were the moist objects which the Goitres
meat had in view. He begged leave to reply to
sums observations contained in a former speech of
the Hai. Member opposite; three observations
were founded chiefly on a comparisons between the
Estimates of this year and those of 1799. He de-
nied the propriety of adopting 1792 as a standard
for the expenses of this, and rejected all deduc-
tions made front such an argunteut. The internal
adulation of the country—he did not mean it in a
civil sense—made it impossible to dispense with
such a force as dirt of 1792. The number of pub-
lic works erected during the war required additional
attenihince to prevent dilapidatioos and expenses of
repairs. The. vast accumulation of public property
in every quarter of the country. in the way of
stores, required to be effectually *aided. The
mummies of colorriel and foreign no re-
quired augmented forces to preserve hem. There
/anew.°
was nothing in the circumstance of 1792 to make the
Estimates of that period applicable to those of 1821.
la 1792 the establishment, including officers,
amounted to 43,578, according to the statement.
But it is not Lir to state that this was actually the
establishment ; for, according to the Journals, it
appears that there were 16,000 men more than
that estimate. At present the establishment of the
new colonies is 15,999 men -; and when the House
is aware that this is for the garrisons of Malta, the
lordlier Islands, Ceylon, and our most valuable
possessiout, for which we have urade the greatest
sacrifices, which are the most important in a mili-
tary, a political, -or commercial point of view,
they would, he was sure, consider that it Was
not too much ; because, although not at war.
we should be prepared fur any sudden emergency,
and nothing short of this would at all answer for
the purposes of preparatory defence. In the old
colonies there are 2,614 men, including officers.
In the lonian and Leeward Islands, and New South
Wales, there has been a great increase since 1792,
and this increase must necessarily occur. The pas
initiation has greatly increased. by the number of
persons sent out, of a charatter extremely difficult
to govern, and therefore the increase is necessary.
The estimates of Ireland he should leave to his
Right Hou. Friend the Secretary for Ireland (Mr.
Grant). and he was sure the House would find they
were not greater than that country required. les
Portsmouth, Plymouth, Chester, Hull, Jersey, and
Guernsey, there was an excess of 4,839 more than
in 1792. With respect to regiments quartered in
foreign stations, he wished to state, that the only
way to send out relief was to send out whole regi-
ments. In every regiment that returns home there
is a considerable defalcation, in consequence of
which the expense to Great Britain of re6ttiug these
regiments is very considerable. It will be admitted
by all persons that have attended to these matters,
that it would be advisable that these regiment)
should come home every ten years; now, according
to that system, there should at least 11.200 men go
out annually. This statement, he trusted. would
satisfy Gentlemen that there did not exist a greater
force than is necessary to accomplish all the pur-
poses that would be desirable. The Honourable
Gentleman vitiated, that the regiments should be
established on the system of 800 men each. In
considering these establishments, three things
should he taken into consideration : lit, the regi-
ments should be fitted up on the mom economical
principles ; 2d, the regiments should be fixed, and
in their present condition efficient; 3d, their orga-
nization should be sea as to afford the power, in case
of a 'ridden war, to fit them up quicklyaud cheaply.
In the year 1792, the regiments barely consisted of
400. They were in fact quite inefficient. When a
war broke out they were obliged to send detached
companies to different regiments, and, in fact, so
low an establishment could never be augmented at
the beginuing of a war with say effect. When you
add a parcel of raw recruit, to a regiment it par-
takes of the character of the majority, and be-
comes, in point of fact. a young regiment. He
therefore thought that the regiments now proposed
of 650 the most efficient, and lie trusted that the
House would be of opinion that the establishments,
as they are at present arranged, did not deserve
their censure. But, says the Hoe. Gentleman, in
some points, at least, it is objectionable—the Life
Guards, fur instance. But the House would find
that they are not greater now than in 1792. In
fact, it become a question whether it were expe-
dient to have any troops on more advantageous
conditions in respect to rank and pay than others.
He was of opinion that it would be an advantage
to have those troops, immediately about the person
of the Sovereign, in • more advantageous station ;
sod it would be fur the {louse to decide if there
were any thing in the character of this regiment,
of valour or bravery, that entitled them to these
distinctions.—( Hear. hear.)—The Honourable
Gentleman has stated that the price of corn
is now reduced to the price of 179 e. That may
he, but other articles are by no means reduced
in the same proportion. Neither the price of meat.
nor the price of apparel are at all reduced to that
level, at least as far as lie could learn. With regard
to the pay of officers, lie was sure the House must
be aware that it was frequently inadequate to meet
all the expenses necessarily uttendant on the dis-
charge of their military duties—(Hear, heor)--and
if there were not au overruling necessity from the
embarrassed state of the couutiy, be must say, that
after • long war, after these gallant men had rescu-
ed the country by their heroic exploits from perils
and dangers, the Hon. Gentlemen had chosen at
least an ungraciou• period for btinging forward
their complaints—f" Hear, hear," from the Oppo-
sition Bencherf—anal he was sure that a British
House of Cumulous would never sanction such
a measure.—( Cries of G‘ Hear, hear, hear." I
In 1801 the first half year of the estimates of the
foreign staff were 55.0001. ; the second half year
20,0001.; tusking in the whole 75.0001. But Gen-
tlemen seem to have taken the estimates of 1803.
and not of 1802; and lie thought that Gentlemen

uVr,,
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s

I

wouhl perforni their July to that flottie with little
advantage if they took their estimates fur the fol-
lowing year front the year pest. With respect to
1792, the staff that was then presented for
never did exist; and unless we were prepared
to go back to the old military dpeipftnef or
rather no discipline, they mint het -that there
could be no fair comparison instituted between
1792 and the present times. Some are of opi-.
nion that the army is too large ; others, that
there should be no army et all. He did not un•
derstand the meaning of either of those two propoa
sitionsi boot this he thought, that it would be beta
ter to keep no army at all, suttees it could be kept
better than in 17y1. There was no order, tin di.-
ciphue then observed ; and such was the intuit-
larny that then existed. that be feared very much
if the Honourable Gentlonseu were an notions to
obtain the estimates of that day, as they are at
present. they would here foond it much inure
difficult to see them. The Hun. Gentleman next
comes to die public departments, amid here be 55)5
• considerable iucrease has occurred snore 1794.
Unquestionably there slid ; hiss a considerable re.;
duction has taken place sluice 1814, and if they
compared the Estimates of Oil year will those of
the present, they would find that there is a seri*
of 80,000/. a year. which will 'hew at feast that
if there has not beau a reduci toil altogether so great
as might be desired, still the Government have
attended sedulously, and dune all to their power.
But he again protested against any comparison
with 1792. There was siothnig in which they could
be with propriety compared. The ay-teur sea dif-
ferent.—(Hear, from the Oppetition Benehes.)—
There is not the same regularity nor the same ac-
curacy.=.(Hear./...Hey.Ok nn credit to the Go-
vernment for that: if was doe by that House.
The House attended to the atTairs, and the Govern..
mesa was compelled to do their duty.—(l-leer,
hear. front the Opposition beaches.)—Geatteaten
cheer on the oppori e side as if they took the sole
credit to themselves ; hot we cannot 'sake brick,
without straw, and it was a little too ranch for
Gentlemen ti come down to the House with whole
quires of motions under their arms—(Henry—wad
cry out for account* in a hurry, and having pa
these accounts, complain bemuse they are not
balanced with 1794. This conduct was quite in..
consistent with any sound principles of ecouotuy.
The Honourable Gentleman complaint of the
superannuation and retiring allowances as being
too large. But he was sure the Howse would
feel that some liberality- should be shewn. When
we are reducing our establishments, and tarn off
persons after 20, 30, and 40 yes rs service, after hay..
ing spent the beat of their days in the public ser•
vice, and are discharged at a period when they are
unfit for other offices, it would be quite incousistent
with the liberality of a great nation not to make
them a liberal allowance. The Noble Lord then
made an allusion to the Duke of York, who under-
took the management of the army from the most
pure and disinterested motives; and any one that
will compare the state of the army now with what it
was before lie autdertook the matiegement of it, will
feel persuaded, that, were it not for the exertions of
thut illustrious individual, not all the valour of
Wellington, nor the bravery of the British army,
would have been able to place the country iu the
situation in which it is at present..—(Hear. hear.)
—The Noble Lord concluded by moving the fine
resoitation-.. •
"That SIAM men be the 4riediNg force of Greet !Shahs
and Ireland, sortseirs of 'Le troops fur ladle sari the
Colonies, far URI."

Colonel DAVIES then rose ; we regret that in
several parts of his speech► lie could not be dis-
tinctly heard in the gallery. He commenced by
stating that he would not deny there might be some
inaccuracies in the statenie:it of his Hon. Friend.
inaccuracies there were on both sides. It was
his intention, before the Committee proceeded
further, to move that the Chairman report
progress. and that it be referred toe Committee
up stairs. It was impossible to asceitatn what was
the extent of the reduction that might be made,
not having the whole of the Estimates before them.
lie should, however, compare the Estimates of the
present year, which is in a state of profound tran-
quillity, with those of 1819—and not with those of
last year, which was more or less in a state of agi-
tation ; ■nd from this lie thought he should be at
least able to prove, that the case was such as at
least to demaud inquiry : fur lie could not consent
to have such large rums of the public money voted
away on the mere ipse &zit of the Noble Lord,
■nd by a set of figures which it was impossible to
understand, although he had no doubt the Noble
Lord took every paws to make them sa clear as
possible. It was nut his intention to follow
the Noble Lord through ell the various details:
but he thought he should be able to prove
that a cou►iderable reduction in the army might
take place, without endangering either our do-
mestic security or our foreign possessions ; °revels
should the House come to the resolution, that a
standing body of men of 100,000 were necessity,
still he trusted he should be able to *hew, that
on that body of men a considerable redaction
might be effected. This be should endeavour
to do, and if he succeeded in convincing the
!louse that some such alteratioii. might take place,
he would at least have made nut a case to justify
them in going into it Committee. The Honour-
able Gentleman then proceeded to observe on the
tranquillity of the ccantry. if there appeared a
disposition amongst the. people to create a dis-
turbance, then there might be some grounds
fur keet.ing up this immense standing army ; but
surely if there were a disposition amongst the
people to sedition or riot, it would hove appeared
at the time when the whole country was in agita-
tion about her Majesty, or at the time when the
Government of the country was in such apprehen-
sions, that they crowded all the barracks in the
neighbourhood of London with troops to quell any
insurrection that might take place. His inference
front this was, that the pohcy of keeping up such an
enormous standing army was, to say time least, Twit-
tinuable, and demanded the inquiry of that House.
—The lion. Member then proceeded to remark on
the Army in foreign station,. He should be glad to
know what was the necessity of keeping up such a
large military force at St. Helena and in the islands
of the Mediterranean. Aud here he would say.
that he had the authority of the Under. Secretary
of State for saying, that they could be sup-
-1 ported at a much lower rate, With resl►tct

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