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London, England, 1805-05-15 00:00:00

been at that early period taught in !relate!,
tl
would, no doubt, have had pretty nearly
same effeet that it had here ; but, in that coun-
try. it does not appear that any one ever attempt-
ed to teach it; nor, was the Protestant religion
ever tendered to the people, except in the eirm
of an All of Parliament. It was well said by
Lord Clare, that any attempt to force men's con-
seiences only made them hypocrites; and we find
that force, instead of argument, was the instrument
employed in Ireland. A law was passed, by which
the eldest son of a Catholic, who had a landed es-
tate might, by turning Protestant, dispossess his
father. What could be more detestable than this
law, which was so well calculated to revolt the
feelings, of the people, by en unnatural power
given to a son to shake off the dominion of his
parent ? This bribe, however, was not confined only
to the eldest; but the youngest, or any other son,
was also, by his conversion, afforded the bribe of
seizing on his father's estates, and letting it gavel
between him and his eldest brother. In this way it
will be allowed, that both the King and his Parlia-
ment took a most irreligious method of extending
their religion, and prepared their converts for, being
good Protestants, by first making them bad men.
The free tenets of the Protestant religion are of that
kind that will always extend themselves with the
progress a civilisation; but you took the very
worst mode of effeeting this in Ireland. By pro-
hibiting the education of Roman' Catholics abroad,
and excluding there from the university of Dublin,
you have compelled the parents to rend their chil-
dren abroad, to be educated in foreign countries,
where they were, of course, brought up in all the
prejudices of the Catholic religion, or, in other
words, of popery. There were alse several other
efts which had a similar, and, perhaps, an equal ten-
dency ; but I shall not detain the House by rea-
soning on them at present. One great and leading
objeetion which I have beard stated against the
admission of Catholics in .Parliament is, that the
Pope is allowed to have more power in Ireland than
he is possessed of in other Catholic countries. If
the fad were so, I confess that it would have co
derable weight with me Upon this subjeet I made
it my business to converse with some Catholic Gen-
tlemen of no small authority, and asked them whe-
ther they would have any objeetion to the bishops of
their persuasion being nominated by His Majesty
instead of the Pope ? and they all agreed that they
could have no objeetion to it. What I should pro-
pose would be, that hereafter, whenever a see was
vacant, the other bishops should assemble,and choose
two or more candidates, whom they would recom-
mend to that appointment, and leave the choice of the
person to be determined by the King. Indeed I have
good reason to believe,that if the prayer of the Petition
was granted, the Roman Catholics would cheerfully
give up that point (A ery of bear !, hear ! from Me.
Fox, and those Awakes who surrounded him), as well
as make whatever other sacrifices the circumstances
cif the case may be thought to require; for, I must
niaintaie, that they have no right to setts in Par-
liament, while they continue to take their Bishops
from the hands or any foreign power. I etas not.
however, but think, that the Catholics would be
very well satisfied with this arrangement, and I
make but little denbt that many of time opposers of
their emancipation would relax in resistance, and
consent to agree to it upon this condition. To
speak plainly indeed, I should wish to ask of -the
Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Fox), who must be
in the confidence of these Gentlemen. by their se-
leaing him to present their Petition, to what extent
the Catholics would go in this respell. and 'what
are the points which they would have no objeftion to
give up ! I hope the House will bear in mind, that
when these Roman Catholic laws were passed, they
were not direaed against the Catholics as such. but
were laws eneßed against popery and slavery ; for
James IL who was the source of them all, was him-
self a tyrant and a bigot. The laws, therefore, woo
a double aspea, as intendin;to prottet the subjelte
of these realms against both. As to the prospeas
generally attributed to Roman Catholics. I am. in
my own mind, perfeetly convinced th it they do
not entertain the most distant icy of our re-
storing the estates that were confiscated from
their ancestors. The best proof, perhaps, that
could be given of this is, that since the Roman
Catholics of Ireland have been allowed the liberty
of purchasing lands, they have almost invariable
been solicitous of purchasing those that formerly
belonged to their forefathers, which they certainly
would not do, if they cherished the hope of ever
receiving them back in any other manner. I once
very strealy enquired of a lawyer in Ireland, who
was very much employed in making these pine
chases of forfeited estates, whether he knew any
instance of the descendants making any objection to
the tenures by which such forfeited estates were
held ? Ilk reply was, that he never once knew a
single instance of it. Is is a vulgar error into
which the learned Gentleman (Dr. Duigenan) has
fallen, when he told us that the Catholics of Ire-
land had maps, by which they could trace the
boundaries of the estates once possessed by their
ancestors, in the expelletion that they would,
ems some future day, have an opportunity of re-
claiming them. The fail is, Sir, that the map of
all these forfeited lands is kept by the auditor in the
Castle of Dublin, is accessible to every man who
chooses to inspeet it, and is daily produced in the
Courts, to ascertain disputes respeeting boundaries.
The history of this map is pretty well known. It
was drawn by Sir William Petty, after the old one
had been taken away by King James 11. and car-
ried into Prance, where General Vellancey was some
time since sent to procure a copy of it. From this
it will he seen, how idle the story is, that Catholics
are at the trouble of keeping maps privately, with
sinister views, when the real one is accessible to any
one who :Apple*, for it. 'I lie great point, then, Sir,
which I have in view, is to thew that, as the Re-
formation, now in existence neatly 3,X) years, has
hitherto made such slow progress in Ireland, the
surest method we can take to advance it is, by trca l-
ing back the steps of our ancestors, and by undoing
Much of what they had done. If then we are to
measure back the steps of 3uo years, we cannot be
surprised if much time shall be required in .eivanc-
ing. One thing, however, is de..r, that if we ea-
pea to convert three millions of people eito
good Protestants. it must be done be argument,
and not by force." , Ile then concluded, by ap-
plauding the SOOkienaklii ,hewn by the advocates
of the measure, and recommending their exam-