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London, England, 1824-05-25 00:00:00

sad trollied ad a On' of such vast itnportav co, and by which 13
math Ittasita apse dam to so respectatile and loyal a body u his
WPM, • likman Catholic subjects la Ireland. It IMO onuses's..
eery so palm out the gnat discrepancy of such policy. A unites.
inky of lows was desirable in all things. but in no instance was it
atra drivable than regarding religious opinions. Ile did not
was Cat a mere case of moonily would he a justificution of the
but this rase so liarfrom its being pas-
....

nimeetue he proposed; —.in . is case so tsr 0wn.... ._ -__________ .. _ _ __
__ _
__
___ IV* .- _
able to point out • reason foe continuing the anomaly, all the res- before the !finale. Ti that principle he weg w, as he had always
eats that could be brought to hear upon it were against its remain- been, disposed to give his determined opposition. His opinions
Ins, and proved in favour of the Englati Catholics. He would upon the inexpediency of weeding to that principle were millirem,
point one lq one the instances to dew that they were eminently en- by experience ; although. perhaps, there was a part of one of those
I titled to the indulgence he asked for them. In the first place he Bills that did not appear to him in objectionable as others—he
I would notice the elective franchise. :tinny years since that prin. meant that which proposed to include the Duke of Norfolk in the
lege was granted to the Catholics of 'rebind ; but it had been ob. Annual Indemnity Act, by permitting him to hold the situation of
1 jeeted to that measure that it caused undue extenaion in Ireland to Earl Marshal. That object, however, might be attained by a,
the tight of voting, and had been detrimental to the peace of the separate Bill rather than by making it part of the present measure.
country ; but he contended that the evil anise from the subdivision Ile could not rename to the appointment of f;atholies to the
lof property, and not to the admission of Catholics to that sacred office of Magistrates, for in his opposition to the Catholic
but question, both It this and the other House of Parliament,
right a Englishmen which Was at 'present denied to English,
granted to Irish Catholics. !tut even if this were the arse. it could he had made as the ground of his objections to it, the unwilling.
not he applied to persons situated as his elajesty's subjects of the neon he felt to die admission of Roman Catholics- to political
Romish persomioo in this country. Their case was totally dif. power, and he knew not with what noire important part of
ferent. The Catholic population in Ireland wan, for the most part, that mower they meld possibly be entrusted, than by making them
deficient in property ; but their brethren in England were ani. Allem In the judicial administration of the criminal justice of the
amity qualified in that respect. The number of Irish Calton., agegarp. Thin, however, could not he more effectually placed in I
might be objected to the indulgence granted to them, but he need Mffielbilellemds, than by their appointment to the office of (Magistrates.
rrtnind their Loolships of the small proportion the English ('athie. Us bed opposition, but a more qualified one to the proposalis to ex-
lies bear so the masa 01 the copulation here. flow often had Ca- large elective franchise in the Roman Catholics of t country.
tholie proprietors been men and it was a melancholy circumstance His objection to it principally lay in the feelings of religious
to recur to)) on homing, at a &tam, for Members of logglilament, . acerbity which It would orate in the future contests at elections in
coming forward and proposing a candidate, and then Mine obliged this country. Instead of a struggle between Whigs and Tories,
to retire from the buntings without toting fuse the men they had re- sad other political parties, religious exuperstion would be added
commended. it mat be in the recollection of man OM* Lord. to embitter the feelings of the people of England. Such was the
ships, that Catholic proprietors had recountm candidates fee eaae now in leotard; and he should be eorry to see thel:atholic
the representation of places they were connected with, who were priest in &island, as in the limier country, become the champion
hostile to their claims; and be knew of no instance of ea of the hustings. Ile would not consent, on any presumed analysis
Qom prejudice more striking than this. Vet the peemlier el !of the respective situations of the Catholics, to give up what he
al
testants had kept such men as Gage and 'fhmgmonon MIN I considered the safeguatvls of the Protestant Constitution. If it
at elections. Every consideration of sound policy should Indies the i were advisable to ensure a Protestant succession and a Protestant
Bowie to get rid of such enactments. What their lordships re- ! ascendarsey, those bulwarks should not be abandoned by which
Hected that the English Catholics were living in • population cam- ! they were maintained. rhe Noble Marquis had defended those
partitively Protestant, powering property to • large extent, he : Bills on the ground of equalisation of the Catholic subjects of the
trusted that he had said enough on thisabject to induce their' Empire. For his pert he did not think such equalization was
Lordships te look favourably on this measure; for those whom they practicable. If a system of uniformity were to prevail, Scotland
would relieve by it could never act in bodies, as they did in dud part should be included as wallas this country. Ile believed that the
of the Meted liengeltnii where the indulgence wee conceded to them. Catholics, if admitted to power, woad aim at the iacendancy of
Ile implored their Lordships not to refuse to the Catholics of this their body. This, indeed, they themselves avowed, and he re-
comany, who had been always conspicuous their loyalty and spected them foe the simatity with which they avowed it. It
rod conduct, that most valuable privilege the emits had been said that the principles of the Catholics were not 1
for repreminertiven to serve in Parliament,and whielliWee the same as they had formerly been; but it was his unshaken
as essential to their political existence. • The sat PRI that be conviction they were unaltered—that they were precisely the
had the honour of bringing under the notice of .doss was same as they bad ever been. Ile would confine himself
one for enabling; Catholics to bold certain offices. miersire at a retrospect of the lam fifteen years, by which it would
would be attended with no other effect than admitting than. to ,peer that the ipleinelples of the Catholics were nut changed in any
office. in the revenue, and to other office, enjoyed by 1116 Calhdiell keine. The Noble Lord proacoded to refer to the writings of
in Ireland. Their Lordships need scarcely be made l.Dersear illikser, with a view of supporting this 'amnion ; and to
with the absurdity of two asuntries in daily insurcoune ea* the writings of Doctor Doyle, *he, within the last week, haul laid
ar.d
other, and that on one aide of the Channel Esthetics were Pi beton the metropolis a document contaluing more of insolence
preside in these offices, and on dumber nide theyeouldmeteeesithse sad sedition than any thing he had previously met with. There
a permit. It seemed as if the whole of the sager and tether/sin the wen also two L'athohe societies in Irelaed, whit* had broached
Kings warehouses wotild be contaminated by a Catholic touch In each tombs and spinosa, that it was found necessary to suppress
Engltutd, when in Ireland they received not the slightest thjusy t than. He mentioned several °thee transactions which took place,'
and the whole of the spirits intended for the ale of his Mosey% even under the reign * the resent Pepe, to establish the conti-
liege subjects wonlit he instilled with heresies, and become dan. noeme, of the same spirit in the Catholic body as formerly pre-'
proue to partake of, if a C atholic had the care of them here; nand amongst than, but from the low tone in which he spoke,
but they might be infected by the importation of the Catholics of his sontenteat et them was not distinctly audible below the bar.
Ireland being allowed to take Aims in the revenue here, without If mon petitions had ant been presented to the House this Session,
its being compulsery upon them to take any other oath than the it area hem the confiktice that prevailed throughout the country,
one they had previouely taken In Ireland ; and the English Calm. that the 1n... would adhere to tbe_previous intone they had fie-
lks had the mortication to see strangers brought into offices, for no queue' salsas* on this subject. He sesslisded by MOT .as an
other omen thou because they were Irish Catholics, who could A te the maim of the Noble Nltsgata, that the is ilb be
m
hold Wise here as well as in their own country. This was raid again that da_ y six months.
an inciamistencey not °lily unjust in priciple but income:tient The Karl of WESTMOIt LA ND was if the some opinion
in practise, which perhaps the Noble and I,earned Lord an that he bad sleeps been, as to the inexpediency and unitises, of
the madsark was nut itiformori of ; but when informal he might granting the general quietists of Catholic relief t lint his opposition
feel it his duty to bring in a Bill of pains and penalties ass eat to that measure did not op, luthertludi the esclusion of them film
certain partial. which, although It would not hare his Itordship's l'arliamentary power. To the present motion of the Noble Met•
would have probably the votesof many Noble Lords. Ile quis he wee frinidlv I beesese, in his °plaices, it did rot go beyond ,
?ell'urritnform that Noble and Learned Leal, that an order had ems. the greeting of those privilege, which the right d proper y shield
noted from the Itoverrnment, dispensing with the enactment of one give, mid to withhold which tweet bee source of ' teat to
' of the Acts of Charles 11., the precise words of which he believed the Catholics if gogisud, as they were or' by their carbine
he could quote to their Lordships : '• That no Person shall be al. fellow-MVMM in Inland. It was inipahtic and unjust to oblige
lowed to interniceldle with the Excise, or art in any office in it, an officer at the Civil Service to take oaths in EnglaW frees which
without taking the oath of supremacy." With repect the office he was exempt in Ireland; and he con* not discover say pried/fee,
of Justice of the l'eace, he could see no reason why, in of justiceor good government which impulsed the takimeofoatheasa I
this comparatively tranquil and undisturbed country, Homan civil officer, from which a Homan Catholic in his military capacity
Catholics might not act, when they were put in the commitment in was relieved. The much nowe limited extent to which this measure
Ireland. lie would ask their lordships what danger could arise would be elective in Etigland, was also a reason that induced him
from having • few Roman Catholic magistrates acting here, and to concur in it. The electiv: franchise here would he confined
from disposing with those oaths which, although doubt, existed to the Catholics, who were owners of the soil; but in Ireland the
' regarding than in point of law, were nevertheless required, when Catholics, besides constituting the bulk of the populution, were ad-
Homan l'atholies were allowed to act in that capacity in Ireland, a mitted to I:cremations, and voted frt parody at elections, in virtue
country beyond cotoperaonlllore disturbed than England ? There of their right in the' capacity. As to the apprehension stated of
Roman CO milieu were permitted to exercise the duties of the magis- Catholics voting tOr itleisibent who would carry the general ques.
tract', whilst they were strictly prohibited on this side of the Chan. tion of emancipation, he would say, first, that the fewness of!
not.ln proof of the satisfactory manner in which the Catholics die. their numbers would prevent the execution of such a design if they
charged the duties entrusted to them in Ireland, he would refer to entertained it; and in the next instance he would refer to the
the evidence of a gentleman who filled the situation of Inspector conduct of the Roman Catholics of Ireland, who, when they
urnerat, nod whose °Nervation was principally engaged in the obtained the elective franchise, and Parliament was die-
southent counties, where it was known the Catholic poptilatiou solved, so far from making use of the great and Influential
measly prevailed. I tfthe offices in the 11011er—the constables and powers thee possessed, of merely • stding Illemlicre to Par.
policemen, who were appointed under those many acts which our powers
with • view of suppor..eg the general measure, that
policy towards that country had crested and multiplied, such Of in the Parliament that was then chosen hat a sin le discussion on
em th es were tilled by Ronan Catholics, were filled faithfully and their claims took place. r Bear, hear.) The Noble lewd adverted
well, and the evidence of the gentleman to whom he alluded MM. 10 the Itill which had been introduced in favour o the Homan Ca.
tained and established this important fact—•• that in no instance iholie Peers, and said that the Roman Catholic people, however
were them Roman Catholics known to be influenced in their eon. they might wish success to that Bill, yet were jealous that Ronan
duct hi religious or 'tarty prejudice." (lime. hear.) The sante, Catholic people generally were nee hicluded in a measure of more
re nearly the same honourable testimony, could be borne in favour general :eller. The present Dills, be thought, proposed such mo-
ot* the satisfactory manner in which Roman Catholic gentlemen dilication of the existing laws as would be consolatory to the people.
discharged their magisterial ditties. Ile would all upon the House if the pate:deal benefits it conferred were not Yee), great, the beta..
to bear in mind, that at a period—a more critical one than the pre. faction with which they would be received would he so; and he
mat, or than he ever hops( this country would again experience— would be glad to see the maxim of Lonl Bacon fulfilled. •• ('i
the !loosen I 'Wholes were not hiegetful of their allegiance, but ern. cattalo's roe soletirre ad wines pertinirever." He thought that the.
dead faithful aid imporuent services, that were worthy to bean relief which bad formerly been given to the Irish Catholics had
example and a model of proud imitation to the rest of the empire created such satisfaction then, as to enable Government more eftie.
The !woof Cary then administered of their fidelity and loyalty, tually to resist threw appliaitions now.
should now be rewarded, and the Mlle so, as that reward required herd ItEl/ESD.II.L thought the opinions of the Noble Lord
only the performance et an set of justice to the Parties who sought wow rather to support the general measure of Boman Catholic
it, and at the same time an art of practical benefit to the empire. relief, than the partial consideration of it suggested by the
( lieu. hear, hear.) flaring adverted to the principal situation, of Bills now before the Ileum. Thule Bills bad quite altered their
which he hoped to make Catledies eligible by the bills he propesal form from the original proposition they professed to effect. A cer-
to pass, lie would mention one class of satiatitms which he did lain improvement was protested to be &mai at, hut a most import.
not intend to introduce in the present Bill ; not because he thought ant alteration its the laws would be effected by the Bills in their
necessary to omit it, but thou who would approve of the Bill present taupe. One conceesion was followed by ar.mher, until at
otherwise might do so, and he was unwilling to clog the measure length every hold sod security of the ascendancy of the Protestant
se hit id.a saes which might operate to prevent its final success. The religion, and Church and State. Were surrendered. lie knew that I
eituatioap to which he alluded were thou in the household. '('hen: his el )i ll hill on this .:object had made hint litany enemies, and that.,
in the capital of Ireland it was preached op that it would he lawful
was one situation, however, which he would propme to include in
the trrevietone of this hill-that was the situation of the Ilereslitary to assassinate him (bunt Itcdcodale). the Human Catludic Bi-
Earl Alarelial of England. held, or rather claimed, by the Duke of shop, on hearing it, however, reprimanded the person who had ad.
Norfolk. Among the many distinguished buxom, which, through winced such au wieertion. If anything were smiting to chew the
several centuries, and a long line of illustrious ancestors, gathered unfitness of making further comets:does to the Catholics, he
round the brow of that Noble Duke—uniungst the numerous and would refer the Douse to the late preeeeding,rs of the Catho.
proud memorials of the high Witco( his family, sit which the tapes. lic Association in Dublin. If there were a line of circumval.
try that adorned thou walls was not the least perithable record— lotion abeet the establidiment of the church, beyond which
WWI that of Ilerellitery Carl Marshal of England. In the •it would be impossibk to pass, he then would not object to
patent which nunferred other honours at this period, although I the introduction of the present Bills, but that wet not the
he did not find in it the grant of this aittiation, it was slit-CI'S!. With regard to die exercise of the office of Earl Mar- 1
timely stated that they were given " as a reward of great shad by the Noble Duke, whose name was mentioned in the
allegiance and important services," And this was the testi. Dile he certainly would not oppose it, though he thought it Might
ninny of a Protestant King, Charles 11. to a Catholic Noble. to form the euteeet of a separate Itill. Ile would oppou filmset:
man, rimer father bed clung with the nowt persevering attachmen every come-totem to the Catholic,. The Irish Rouen (tieteeke
to the fate of that unfortunate man. It watt extremely unjust that were rattly to mete with violence the eatablishment el the church
a name of hie exalted rank %timid be extended Iniall that station itself; they dal not disavow it. Ile would not agree to nay pan of
',hid, hod heet, thee 4.oideteed roe the merits and services of his de. Bills. If the claim of the Duke of Noreek were made the
ancestor.. and that his nettle should not It, included in the annual SUbjeCt of a separate Ilill, it ahntall hare his support, as far as in
Indemnity Bill. so as to enable into to appear as he ought to de at . related to the discharge of hit functions ; but he would itteist on
the I 'institution and other great State curt inoniela. Ile whaled to j withholtlitig from Min all politicdpower.
accompany whet he haul said of this eimation with a statement of 1 The Mellott of LICHFIELD said, that he cetieidertel the
the reasons that prevented the Noble !hike from the attainment of I subonlinetion of opitii.in which the Roman Ca:ludic, timid to foreign
the privilege to fully enjoy thou honours which so well became away, stud which formed an /secede] part of their religion, must
him. It waft from an new illiegmes in the mind of that Noble !Vet preeem at 11101 d Material and insuperable molted for their ok -
Lord to seek for any advantage permit:,! ei Ititustlf, or for the r,- elusion Irmo l'arliament ; hut although he thought dee exelmion
emery of any political right, without including the rights of those :lust and fele. yet he would lie inclitud to greet them everything
similarly situated as leattettle Ile mulerstoed that a high legal au. that Mild be given coneistently with the peewit>. of the Coeeti ii
dimity had been eonsitlt“l, and declared that the Noble Iftike of lions and lie therefore ••• ~,, jtrou•d for depriving them of the elec.
wittms he spoke al Id not 011ieiate at the late Coronation in the tier franchise, as hr wan of OpildOn t:litt every Ilielidier of the
rap:Wily of Earl alarelial. It was stated to amount to a nem, ememunity had a right to vote for the representation of his intere.es,
Melanin. for any lemma to advise the leieg to iwirmit a Roman ('a. utdesedebarred for some moral offence; and as the Hill then befitre
thole: to fullil the duties of this elm:ltem. Ile did nut pretend tot the HOWSe Watt einditlad to title pone, he had no objection to it, as I
he
very learnt-41 in poiiits of legal nicety, but he was at Lime to I the 11,easiku Catholic would then be repremated in his polite; al and I
know in what the miedemeapor c0rei31.741, in what the danger was 1 party prejudices, and with a due regard to hie litinitlaie comforts. ^
to be apprehended to the constitution folio the fulfilment of phi, or , and his religious prieciplu a would be alone oveluili it, art' which I
any oiler aituation from the present Duke of Norfelk, or from any I were neeenuttily so. as they were incompatible with the peweable I
larson who war likely to succeed hint. Ile would esti upon any I maintenance ol the E-tsliii,hcil Church. Ile thought dud the Mrs- j
ion. Mender of that I liime to lay his band upon his heart, and sure propout! by the Dill Was just and re:tunable, and ore that 1
to Sly really if he effiertained any serious apprehension front such I ought to le: supported by every mguntent diet coned It! hrongia to
nn event, or from the passing of any of the Dill" which he now in. bear un it. The Reverend Prelate urged Noble Lords to phis, tee
ire ducal.T ,p he greet ohjeet, which he pi,.,..-,1 to attain was the i I English Homan Catholics on a level With the Itoillan I 'atLiilics of I
ts:al,ll,hunvil of a sys cot of uniformity el the laws it, Illreeted the I !relent', and by so doing to deliver e cause so dear to Ilitoit all its
Catholics; for it COIOII not hue reconciled to any notions of reseon i the Puttee:tot ascendancy mute be fr. to any itiLitlialy : they titig;it i
' or justice, that the Catholics of Citgleitil should be euleect to pe. I then sey to the Roman Cetleil tee •• %Vt. respect ion as men, we re..
unities fitim which the Irish l'alltol.c Was eSelllpt. He hoped that geed you as tellow-citizens and friend', and are oely anxiotia that
die Measure Woldd nut nits be niet by dm,: renend miapicions you 1110111 d ralllnVe 1.(01111/ittiradreti that barrier Whit' II pie semi an
w hich it ere usuully dealt out in the distil., ion of 1110. question, said obstacle to the !oddment of any hopes that an honotiretee ambition
that it would pass with the warm atyr •eal of the I louse, if' some cur teed you to form." (Bear, hear.)
apecitie case were 11111 stated against it. The Icsra to he eidertained 'l'lle Itishop of tilt:S.l'El( remarked, that the mile queetion for
should he rational flush Just, suit 11.14,110.111,1 i 1:a1:1111111r. 'There a-as a the ronsiolt.ration of titter lewd:o.4,s was, whether a greener degree
' rule in moment:l; danger of this kind, and adoeted by eh r. Burke, of • iSil liberty could be conceded to the Heinen 4'351101W.: Than that
mot shi,li rot would kr well to ole.eree tool am.:e to the present iptea- alreuily litaista•Cil by thew, without endangering One est:111164011 po-
tion, •• non stiepieto cteuelibet vaai et iertriculted tails pit Wien! illidittilians tit' the issuntry ? Ile et rtninly tilt mid ethernet'
pieeit cadent in liontineiti conetantent et non iteetientem." If the the hardship cauplained sit as to the exclusion of the Nolte. Duke
teem he DOW aeked for had been retooled its Ireland, Where the 'lieu case formed one of the prineipal features in the Dille then
I 'admit: leek, f .11 an tweet• and powerful population ;if the befune their Lonlehips • hut he would oak, were the exclusioos tha
eeteeeion te. that botni Intl 10,11 foetid to be Lalt 3111:101Cti with any the Bills proposed to do away necessary ? Ile thought they were.,
of atose brad einseettencee which the idle apptelittneinto of mime as toleration was not confined tut religion, but to ',dimes also; and
peraatis anticipaitst, Low reasonable nest it out appear to grant I he did nut think chat any case hint been made out, calling tot th e
to the Etterli t 'at I oil its, the emu/. tiri vilegee, when it wart considered eitivemtneso se eive further prieilegee to persons profeetingopinion3
thitt the bode on wl they were conferred were cimmaratieely subversive sit' die power for which such government wee formed.
few, that tit' h polit teal Mile of die ineesitre must be less extensive, I The Homan Catholic church maintained the ecclesiasticalsovereign.
and ahem meleovet, that betty coesi•tol of noel exemplar tor Ity of the Homan l'oraitf__
their pviice.l'ile Conililet and dietth .. as eree of their &lin useful and Dittirunt kiperiams, rum Jove, Ca.:a r :whet, I
I,s:a AtthiLel, lot the !louse cm eethe what impression this rejee.. Any one acquaireed with history must be aware of the ecclesiastical
.e•ui of the rioted ineistar.• of relief most hare stir the mind* of thou power of die Peeve. of a hich he would give a Ain't illitetretion. A 1
t 'admit,* of !reined who were looking forward to the enjoyment rat; great number of Homan leatholie poor were Settled in the neigh- ' 1
more enlarged Wee ty--a luauwas the -levant that it would teach the , bottrhood where he resided, who refused to work on the Sennett!
t -.tholes of thitt ceutitre, th it mart tahaliCe was to be plarill in the • day'S and holiday a appointed by their church. A compleint Was I
tee, of numbers then in mewu act, in stervicee- -that their good madam the priest who •uperintended them; he defended them u the' I
...millet was little available fn the eetetteion of threw privilege., to apadolic vicar was next applied to who said he would refer it to it
s hide hi that gem' conduct. slit y lied vintlicettel their just pre. t the Pope i thew, men si hen they hei:rd this, declared that they would
tension. ; and that the qui,: &permute they had evinced was not work wit( autlionty front the l'ope. Ile merely metitioned I
not the most likely to anus to att.int the recevery of those political this to sheer the ext.nit of the Papal ledisence among the Homan I
0‘1%0010.4ve 0111. ii II was their right tool the rood Of the empire Cathidieti in this country, end that they would not yield to the •
that th.) thould enjoy. tl I ...Jr, beer.) The Nettle Lord concluded tempt/441m nilfil authorities. And k should be remembered, that I

by moving thk second railing of the English Catholic Relief , that establishtnent was anwearted in its attempts *make converts ;
Bilis. !their priests were for ever with the sick. The Reverend Prelate
Lord COUCH ESTER rose to oppose the Bill. The Noble !said that he should desert his duty if he did Dot vote against the
Lord spoke with his back to the part of the House allotted for moond reading of the Bills. It m. t then be asked, whether
stringers, and in so low a tone of voice, as only to be distinctly Catholics were to be for ever from having those rights
audible at intervals. We understood him to say that the pettedly/eland privileges enjoyed by their Protestant fellow,tubjects ? He
of the Rills introduced by the Noble Marquis was the tame as that I held that this exclusion should not continue beyond its necessity,
contained in.t. other measures of relief at et' • times introduced winch would eels' so -as they held that the Pope of Rome,
_

and not the King of Ettglartd, wu at the head of the Church in the
British dominions.
The lAIRD CHA NCELIAIR began by observing, that it was
his misfortune to differ an this point front many Noble Lords, fur
whose opinion. he entertained the highest respect ; but he felt it to
he his duty to take care that none tut the privileges of the Supreme
Ilea/ of the Church of England should be abridged or destoyed.
The Noble Marquis who had introduced the subject had only given
notice for the second reading of one of the Rills, yet he believed
that he was not out of order in bringing on both Bills together; yet
the Bills mete In their nature and consequences different and dis-
tinct. When the foundations of the whole of the laws that regu-
lated the constitution of this country OHM to be considered, every
one must admit that it would have been absurd and inconsistent
not to have restricted the power of voting by the Oath of Supre-
macy ; or did the Hight Rev. Prelate who advocated the extension
of the elective franchise to Roman Catholics, mean to contend that
touch a measure would have no influence on the parson sent to re-
present them, or how did he moan to distinguish an eligibility to elect
from an eligibility tube elected ? No man ever thought: from the year
17tf.1 at least, that it was necessary to glee relief to the English Roman
Catholics, by granting to them the elective franchise. Much had
been said about the Act of 1793 conceding to the Roman Catholic'
in Ireland ; but it should be remembered, that no man could voti
there unless he brought a certificate with him as to his having
taken the oaths of the 13th and 14th of Geo. 111., and a part of
which oath was the maintenance of the right is the Throne of his
then Majesty, his heirs and successors. To say that the Bill
which it was now attempted to introduce was to insert what no
man's ability would enable him to maintain, it was true that its
provisions might be altered in the Committee. The Irish Acts
were not conhned to officers belonging to the Revenue. These
Bills, in short, attempted no such thing as putting the English
Roman Catholics' oo the same footing as the lush. The Noble
Marquis hail alluded to an opinion which he had given relative to a
Noble Duke mentioned In the Bill. He did not shrink from that
opinion, and if he were now asked he should declare, that the Earl
Marshal of England could not constitutionally discharge his func-
tions unless he took the oath of supremacy; and he was sure that
the 1•311 Officers of the Crown could never advise that an Act of
Inde y would cure such an omission. No man could deny,
that if such privileges were granted to one there were thousands out
included in the Bill who would have an equal right to them ; but
the main objection that lie had to the Bill was paving the
way fur a gradual irruption on the Constitution. lie hoped he
I was not arguing too strongly against the rights of his fellow-
, subjects, for he would nut go the length of Mr. Justice Black-
, by saying, that those who denied the su meaty of the
stone p
' King ought lint to be considered as subjects; yet it they were to emi-
cede those points they would not know where to stop, and lie felt it
to be his business to take care of the supremacy of his Sovereign.
Ile would refer Noble bunk to history, not one of whom, perhaps,
hail Mud the curiosity to read the Ist of William and Mary ; but
let them look there, and see what was meant by the suiremacy of
the l'npe. He put himself forward, and was ready to encounter all
the censure that might attach to the declaration that he then pro-
mulgated—that no subject was entitled to the privileges of the Bill
then before the House, if he refused to take the Oath of Supremacy
to the King. Ile repeated, that he felt it to be his duty to guard
the throne, and to take care Lbw a test should be administered in
all temporal matters. The Bill professed to get rid of an anomaly,
be rendering the laws of England analogous to those of Ireland.
But they could not do that without destroying the analogy that
existed between England and Scotland ; and he did not think that
the countrytjwould be justified in deserting the laws that assimilated
be. to Scotland, sod which had existed and nourished since the
reign of Queen Anne. During the last n years an attempt had
been made to take the Church of England by storm ; that was
over, and he trusted that it would not now be destroyed by sap-
ping and mining. The opinions that he was then delivering were
the result of an honest and conscientious conviction, and he
trusted that they would he received with the saute feeling that
he skewed to the opinions of others. Ile had been charged with
bigotry, but his maxim was, to do what lie considered right, and
to leave the result to find.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL observed, that every thing that he
hod heard since the last discussion of the Catholic gunmen, so far
from strengthening his opinion of the propriety of granting what
was called Catholic Emancipation, convinced him more and more
of the imperious necessity for refusing it. But he felt that the
questions brought forward in that Bill funned no part of it, or it
they did the Noble Marquis had reduced them to a very limited
shape. The question of the admiission of the Catholic claims was
always one of the degree he saw in their points, the policy of which
was clear; he saw hi their points the policy of which was doubt-
tful, and he saw also to their points the policy of which was dan-
gerous. He had no difficulty in saving, that by the Constitution of
this country the King 'Pinola be Protestant, the Council should be
Protestant, the Parliament should he Protestant, and the Judges
should be Protestant. The principle that governed one governed
all ; it was a clear intelligible view of the subject ; but he thought
it a reffactio ad ohsavdant to go or. and say that it was necessary
also that the tirlewniters should he Protestanty.dte Constitution re"
no such cluing. It was necessary, fur t e security of the Con-
stitution, that the high and responsible Officers of the State should be
Protestant. 'There was reason in it. He was not inclined to oonceda
any point that might be considered as dangesuus ; but when be came
to a step where there was no danger he would yield it. Ile would
take away every petty obnoxious topic, and leave nothing but the
broad and solid objection; and he was really and sincerely con.
vinced, that not only pro 'onto would they. do good, but they would
render his position stronger and more important. The elective
franchise was granted to the Catholics of Ireland, where they were
powerful and dangerous front their number. No evil had resulted
from this concession, whichthad been granted by the Irish Parlia-
ment on the recommendation from the Throne. What could be
lefties!, then, from conceding to a tew thousands of the English Ca-
tholics 2 There cenobite was no danger here, and he could see no
goal ground for withholding it. There was also a principle of ge.
nor city in it. It had been granted to the strong, and they surely
ought to ) ield it to the weak. Much had been said about oaths.
It was well known that election oaths were worth very little
(cries of " Hear, hear"); indeed they were seldom tendered
but for purposes of delay. Indeed he saw no danger to the
Protestant Establishment from granting this privilege. It seemed
there were two Bills ; he should have been disposed to being on the
strongest point first, yin against the Office Bill, which wee confined
to the Officers of the Revenue, Justices of the Peace, and the
office of Earl Marshal, as held by the Duke of Norfolk. The lat-
ter point was certainly more fit for the subject of a separate Bill,
but he entertained no sort of objection to it. With regard to the
Justices of the Pence, he did not reel the difficulties that many
Noble hotels apprehended, but lie still tilt that it was a mine de.
hateable point ; but with respect to Officers of the Customs and
Excise, lie hail no opposition whatever to offir ; that was an evil
that required an immediate correction. Ile was not afraid of the
Catholic question; he knew the opinion of the country too
well to apprehend being taken by surprise on that subject.
Ile was of opinion that wisdom consisted in knowing where
concession ought to be given, and where it ought to be limited. 11e
ronfisscd that he saw nothing dangerous in the objects embraced
in the present Bills, and he should therefore give them his support.
The Marquis of LA NS! COW N shortly replied.
The Clouse then divided. stun there appeared—
For the Ist Bill, Cornelis
Prom's- - 3n-101
Non-rontants 71
l'rexues . . -1351

31.:jority 311
For the Bill, Cont..ll:s . 177
... 42-109
ritentl 71;
. . . 14-143

Iklajorit y .
The llouic adjourned nt n.

HOUSE Or (1)31 MI /NS, 11oNn►r, MAT 21.

ST. CATHERINE'S DOCKS.

3Tr. Mixt; rrtment"l t inti.ion tram thC;c7tor and inhabitants
of St. Grorge. 'Southwark, praying to be heard by counsel against
the St. 1 Atli; r.re's I b.,r1;., 11111.

Alm bfitlie ebiervatintis from Mr. P. 11;8 EgrELL, Mr. N. CAL-
VEIIv, Alderman 111.‘ 4. ATE, anti 31r. Hu TTERWORTII, the
petittot: war referred to tile Committee on the +mid 11111.

31r. Bt. sI: presented .itniiar 1n titi.unfron--; the New River
12.utipsny, attd flee iudicidual., named William Rell and Robert
; and ttr.othcr poi!ion of the .3111 C nature was pre ented
from etetsin 0 Nl:era of num s, by NI r..%ldetnian Bridges.
thy the liep.irt of Or .tlliance 11111 being brought up and ordered
to be tngnwow d
%Ir. I'. (;:u:srEt,i, asked what sorority persons were t,
have under this Bill, witether it were to rot on the Secretory or on
what oiler source ?

Mr. lII'SKISStIN said that was not his intention to allow
the Bill to pa., the without itor.,ditc;ng into it a clause. h)
which. in the event of a verdict Laing o:.tailied. it should he in the
1141Wer of the percent obtaiaing mach verdict to !idea any individual
subacrilver, and to levy for the anicitint demanded on his goods.
Ile should therefore ripest!. that the minus of all subscribers be
enrolled lit the S•amp.etlice, in order that it may be universally
known who the intoierit,rs were, and that the alliance should not
be legal until such cnrolittrit had takel place.
In 11111.1. i Cr NO a question Irma Mr BRIDGES.
Mr. IIUSKISSON said th.it it was no new principle, but ore
generally adopted in all I) .-k l'ompanks. When the enrol i.ent
takes place. it waa intended that each individual subscriber should
lake upon hirna..lfrhia resiam.illility. and othitinue to be responailde
until lie hail replaced hie Lank: by that of another to whom he had
disposed of his share.
....

1.1)SI11'N I)(R
31r. JOHN S3IITII pri.ei.ttil a petition from the Rev. Samuel
Benson, against the builititig of the South London Docks.—Re-
fermi to the t'ommittee.

r. SPRING R I brought up the Report of the Committee
on the Irish Mining ('ostipan) 111.1. The rnolutions were agreed
tq and the Report ordered tole engrossed.
C.% T /I.IC EM.I PATI()N.
Mr. M. DAICSON presented s petition from the Roman Ca-
tholics of Clonmel, praying for Catholic Emancipation.—Laid on
the table.

BEER BILL.
Mr. DV NO presented twtition arum the llama trictualees of
l.'xtriilge. against the Be. ft Dill.
Similar petitions were presented by Mr. F. PALICERI Rom two
parishes in Berkshire ; by Mr. S. Wu nr LET, rim the brewers