The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1810-03-06 00:00:00

THE EARL OF CHATHAM

Upon the motion of Mr. Wl!liTlllean the Muse
resumed the adjourned debate, on certain re.miii-
tioav4, proposed on a form-r cl.y, for the reprehen-
sion of the Earl of Chathow's conduct, in pre3etit-
fo(• certain Narrative to His !kinkily.
General Cut/runt) said, that, in the total ab-
sence of every personal considenslinn, he ‘‘as in-
duced to deliver thole sentiments to the I Liu—.
which occasioned him to form his opinion on the sub-
ject before them. Every prison who knew hint,
every person in the co•utry, would du him the jus-

comments which be had done in his Narratiiie. was
actuated with a wish to threw odium 'on the naval
past of the Expedition ; but he trusted the house
would agree with him, that DO .such insidious dis-
position ought to be imputed. He did not see this
question in the same light as gentlemen on ti-e op-
simile aide of the House; •he did not perceive sorb
great cr i 000 nudity in the Noble Earl's conduct,
that after arriving in this country, idler all which
bed taco place, and knowing what was genervilly
stated, he was appreheolive that some inquiry
would be eatertansed, sod that a day roVit arrive
when he should have to defend his own conduct,
and therefore he thought proper to Coo3lllllUROttt
' this Narrative to His Majesty. which would pro-
bably tend. in the sequel, to he the best cep's-
riatiossof the whole transaction, and might eventual-
ly form that ground on which he could rest his
own justification. To bring the Admiral or, the
navy too disrepute, was the most foreign any Buts-
teitu,csouslit bea. frotiradt the clu !use! ii, tai ollfeocrd
unicorn"
%Inouye, he wouht uever bare resorted to such a
proceediog. which cowl nave dOrWrilded him below
the degree of a driveller. The wh .le of this trioriac-
tion. about which so much bail barn said, did not
subject the *other of that Narrative to the chaive
of having acted in a clandestine or 'an insidious
manner; sod it was impossible, fawn the intensel
evidence, however applied, to support such en ac-
cusation against the Noble Earl. He was, there-
fore. pursnaded the House would not procecd, is
its candour and liberality, to pronounce such se-
vere censure, where no one could venture to assert
there was any climivahty.
Mr. W. Weser observed, that certainly he rte-
ver bad any personal acquaintsns•e with the Noble
Earl, whose conduct was now seder the consithra-
lion of that House ; he never had any cominuilica-
tion with him, which could affect the miiiiion he was
about to deliver on this subject ;hut lie 'use for the
purpose of stating those grown!s upon which lie
thought the House was called upon to pronounce
its coucurreits•e with the resolutions proposed. In
respect to their own dignity, as a House of Com-
mons, ever watchful ef the principles of the Con-
stitution. these resolutions ought to pass. Gentle-
men on the other side had certainly indulged in ar.
guinviits of a different tendency ; they had assert-
ed, tinit this was ■ subject. though regarding the
fundamental principles on who 11 the Constitution
rested, unfit for their discussion. If the House
could agree to this doctrine, what would he the re-
stiq ? When a Counuinder and a Privy Coun-
sellor shall keep tweret what ought to be communi-
cited, and deliver to His Majesty the iuformation
he possews vs Commanderon-Chief, and with-
holds the same from those v ith whom he ought
to consult for the nation's welfare, and the House.
having such conduct submitted to their imestiga-
tian. were to vote for the previous question, it
would oauctioa such a proceeding: it would not
even prmunince that such a truusu•tion was erro-
neous, but it would dieter it to Ire allowable. A
comet miler, on any future occasion, pl•iced io sis
wider i ire .tames, wuul.l lee teuipteil to emulate
the csomple ; for, in the prortedisiAs of this House
to-isiglit, lie would tin•l a precedent that it was al-
lowable. No doctrine, he enalcoiired. could lie
wore dinigercu- lii its effect■. Perhaps this poor,.
asii4lit lie called a report, which Lord Chatham
made in a private manner to His Majesty. and
that it bright not to be heated as a communice.
tion of a puhl:t• nature. But he could not Una-
ghat how it could be ronsilered as it private pa-
per, delivered by the Noble Earl, study as a Peer,
for it was c• noisily a padie report of public
tiimsactim iii, limb therefore, it was iiin.ossitile not
to proiloulite it a public document. Ii hod hero
alle,,oed, that the Narrative had out 5....,,,,,ed a
public couples's'', 11l the 14th of I-4.min,
but he did hot believe the House• wseila ac-
goiewe in the validity et Ws atgowice. 11•• w
slid this •itliet.l first prey lit it-elf to dui• • oreider-
otion ? %VI.) it/ such a way as enjoined th, iii to
pionounee their opsotoo, for the rail iii il'haili on,
in the course of his eviden,v, smelts this to hat:

bean the fade; and admits, without any thing tq
emit* the baked truth, of what was now stated
again him. Then was it allowable there should be
such a violation of the Constitution? no ; nor would
he believe that a majority of that House would se
far relic qutsh their character. as not to signify theit
reprehension.
Mr. ST1111Z14—" Sir, the question I conceive to
be of the greatest importance, as it affects the chne
meter of the Noble Eat) whose conduct is brought
under our conederatium It is for us to determine
whether we will, in the capacity of a House of
Common., pronounce the Earl of Chatham guilty
of a violation of the Constitution of the country.
1 courts*, Sir. I cannot go so far; I cannot bring
myself to liclieve that so much censure is due. No
censure can be nuire severe, for it will not ouly
proscribe the Noble Earl, as unfit to take any part
iu His Majesty's counsels, but it will terminate all
the prospects of hia political life. I do lint feel
consistently with the uccusatiosi. Because. Sir, if
there was so much meson for representation, in this
transaction, it ought to have insisted ou the charge
myself warranted to the iollicto of vo much pu-
nishment, where Aft accusation itself duce not de-
clare the commiasioo of crime. In the charge itself
I do not tied that the Noble Earl is accused of any
dark or insidious conduct, I do toot find that he was
emploted in any attempt to poison the ear of His
Sovereign. I Mid, on the contrary, that the sub-
stance of the charge again e him amount: to no more
than his presenting a certain parr to His Majesty.
untwist having communicated the same to those
renewers he 1,411 requiredluadvise with and consult.
But shall this imeropriett warrant the greatest se-
verity ? Really, Sir, I cannot agree, that we ate
authorized to pronounce Lord Chatham guilty of an
intention to 'white the principles of the Constitu-
tion. To mentiou that there was nay
ill iastdi-
otu intended on his part, is not to meat thequestion,
and then I should have had it tu my power to op-
pose the present motion by so unateeverable ergu-
meet ; Tor all the evidence has Dot ken gone into
which Is necessity, before tits can support such su
ullegatiou. In that case there would not have larva
the shadow of pretext for persisting in the diem.-
elfin at present, because that would bete hest, the
only proper peeled, when a eharge iosidieustess
could have deasentled our deterieinatiots. With
respect to the charge VI it now 'tames, south! Lull
?pee my Learned Friends on the other side et the
House to &nue die mature of it according to the bin
of the Lied. I think it a subject which requires•
the definition of law to wake it more clearly uudere
stood. I only require, that if this charge is found-
ed upon constitutional and legal authority, that
the low should be statad. Where is the charter,
where is there any statute, where lb there any rule
laid down by Is gal and grave authority, where is
there limy poinciple to be found, elect) alines this
Ong act of Lord Chatham, to be bovele to the cons-
stitution ? Whoever should offend agdrait-ieS--
leas and principles would no aught he guilty of o
great dereiteticay of duty ; but Icanuct perceive each
offence iti the Noble Earl. Ism rot to say .
he was correct m what he did; I are rot prepared
to exceteiate Ins couduct from inetropriety, nor
would 1 venture to say there was nothing °Nettie:-
eke or erroneous in the conduct. I thiak on the
contrary be acted errtmeously, and lu a seminars
which, I mast say, was very objectionable. But
still I ilo not feel justified to pronounce, that he
has been guilty of a liese Mick against the fnorle-
mental principles of the eoustitotine. Such con- •
duet may be terms.) injerious to the coo.titution,
but it (hies aot therefore follow, that we ought to
consider the Noble Lord guilty of a wick-d
mten-
tioo to bring about its subversinu. There are
many things in themeeli,a wr rig and injurious
in ;heir evidency, and yet no a rivets charge
can he made against those eho even count,-
mince and support them. For instance. 'emery
is in its consequences injurious to the Constitue
tion ; but if any Hottourable Member opposite
were in the habit of gene; sumptenus and
splruchd entertainments, was he nn that nccount
to be charged eith a breech and violation of the
laws of the constitatitin ? (Hear ! hear! and a
loud laugh.) Party spirit and those cabuls and com-
binations inuouget gentlemen opposite (hied crier
of hear! hear! hear !) I think Sir 1 have tonchel
string which ates. (Repeated cries of hear.' hear!
hear !) There can be so doubt. Sir, that such party
spirit, such cabals and combinations, are uncoitstitu-
tlotsel; and I know oinothing more injurious in its
conawreacesi. 13ot yet those honourable gentlemen
opposite. would be very unwilling to admit, That
such couduct requires their beitig censored for vio-
lating the best principles of the Constitution. If
this cissestion. Sir, be this night priest d upon the
tircisiou of the Holm.. I am bound to decleri,
justice to Lord Olathe's, as a Gnash !Attlee,
independent of eve 7 other coesiderat Cu', that I
shall give. My negative to the residuum's. There
is another ground el objection to the present mo-
tion, which regards the time when the arcusat:oe
is made ; aed I do not consider it a fit period to
form our ju iginent upon the Noble Earl's con-
duct. If we recur to the pest, every one most
allow that he has been extmosely injured in tee
opinion of the country. We cauuot hat remember
the stones eshali wire circulated, and the clamour
which was raise) go injurions to his eltarecier
ae
Conarnender of the Expeditiou. Such is the ten-
dency of any clamour, wheo the execctatom of 011
public runs high, and that expectation terminates
iD clisappeiistesent, it makes little matter where the
blame may or might to br
terra of cen.
detonation sereads anti is did:tried
through ih. I cmightsquir.
thing of ile• thee. a: tie trine, I most say. when I
la% my hetet wee,. my 11, ar. that fiord Chatt;eans
Ine, to. n to. it, s,,jibry, Mid that he Mae
walled L., r muneretior. Agein,
wheti I tr -7 part of the c educe of
tier Nol.Ye Earl, I trite-t hedger, Ido oat e, "the
Owe ts room to ellkirl evco a plausible ground fur

trultenWog the pr, sent senwation. I csanotbe sup.
rived so soemic Irma a prejudiced disposition; for I
1111‘11341ft 111,111111* acqic.in.ance alert this Pitibie Lord,
nor tin I 'rootlet( that I. ever had the honour of
vittiog in iris company. But where is the ground•
even f r that clamour which was raised 'gaunt his
conduct, as the Cumnsander of the Expedition?
Insteml of deserving such amorous opprobrium,
which war at that time so industriously conveyed
through the whole kin sdoen. by every publiciournal
and neespaper, be really merited the greatest praise
for the discharge of his duty. For what could Lord
Chatham do beyond that which he achieved ? He
deserved the highest honour fur not attempting.
at the head of a brave army, to accomplish that
which in itself was impracticable. (Hear! hear!)
Even Lord Wellington, of *boas he entertained
the bight."' opinion, could not, he believed, have
accomplished, nor would he have attempted, inure,
if lie had commanded in the Expedition. (Hear!
hear! and a laugh. frow the Opposition tide.)—
Throe, Sir, are ray views upon the subject now ur-
eter the consideration of this House. The Noble-
men whose character is called in question, has cer-
tainly'some claim by his hereditary descent upon
our attention, and for the same reason I think I

poetess e full right to be heard as au advocate
, in his cause. To think tightly en the omit*, we
must advert to the hietury of the MK. Lord
Chatham came before this Hattie fur the purpose of
delivering. his testimony relative to the Expedition'
to the Scheldt; and, instead of proceeding to the
determination of that question, it lute been thought
proper to stop the Inquiry, and commence an accu-
sation agaiust the author of the Narrative,which was
required as • part of the evidence for our considers-
tied. Such is the conduct of gentlemen on the
other sale of the House.—(Hear ! bear .1 hear !y—
-ip defending this Noble Lord's conduct, I know I
have to contend against the suggestions of clamour
mid 0. P. arguments.—( Hear ! hear! hear ! and
lingbing.)—Such has been the conduct unrsiied,
that, when the gentlemen opposite field they are
divipir lilted iu the Inquiry, then they resort to so-
other mode of gratifyiog their spleen.—( Hear !
beer hear! and luvghiwe.)—The trausactiou
Limited in Lord Chet haus, is brought forward as au
episode in their remarkshle exhibition. These Gen-
tlemen have not evinced their iodination to study
thee public ADM, but their sole object in view serous
tis hate b-eii the removieg His Majesty's Ministers
from their, stuatioae, for the purpose of filling the
easne skeane.' vee.—(llear ! bear!) I will appeal
to my Learued termini* un the opposite side it they
ever knew a witness in soy cause stnpt while de-
livering his evidence. anti immediately charged ss
* defendant. to answer fur a libel on any other of-
, lanes to be imputed to him from his own testi-
mony. Bet it in thus we VW dealing with Lord
Ch. thaw, iutleed we are using him with greeter se-
tt-rite. The Hoe,e is first called upon to charge hire,
fur his to :duct, unfit to hold any employment order
Op Crown, and then we are required to proceed fur
the purpose of is.vestigating the whole of his cow
duet as t Mumander-in-Chief. There is another
Point of view in which this subject ought to be
iconsidrred—asininna.! Lord Chatham had not writ-
ten tin. narrative, but merely had eommenicattd
beeklis M ejee porker, by way of couvenntion,
greed nip law or punt. iple of the Coastitution to
-tleeta that communication an offence? Then in
point of fact is th. re any enter' diffrieoce between
the injurious consequences of the one, uud tl.ose
of the other ? Sir, whets I reflect upon the times
Which are past, *lsle Gentlemen on the opposite
side bowel of their Cates and their Endows, I can-
not hut remember, at this paricolar time, the vir-
tues cal tsaiii.c. faint abilities of those orators
whose eloquence is now consigned to silence. %Visit
would those tongues, now mouldering in yonder
w ive (pointing in the direction of \Vest ttt i tt titer
Alibey,) say to the propriety of this qoestion being
axitateil before or ? Shall out the ems of the Earl of
Chatham:arid the brother of Mr. Pitt, have justice
ailininistered to hi:n iii this House? I speak ',trill he
warmth ut f.elitig, because I remember myself:is a
men, and l Leon/ hew to appreciate the anxious
teilertie,s of a father. 1 have clii!dren of my emu,
sod I can feel tow I would have then treated by
the wur!.!. When a wan is descended illustriously,
let not the example of his father be quoted to its
injury. I would place the life of the illustriously
good before the view of their offeprieg, and by that
excite them to tread *lw steps of %into,- and glory,
or dissuade them from a coatitry course. But
would not pull down stones from the monutueut.
of the father to bruise the held of the sou. When
we consider the situation cf the Noble Emil, the at-
teutiou *inch hod been extruded towards him on
account of his descent, for in consequence his con-
duct was mote narrowly
.looked into, and emu-
miued with • greater degree of mutiny. It was
therefore natural for him, upon pereeiviug him-
self to stand in to coaepiciious • situation, mud
out hearing the clamour which was noised, when the
public expectation was disappointed. to entertain
s wish to vindicate lams, If In the sight of the twit
of Savereigto, who has. fur so long a time, filled
the throne of these kingdoms. At the same time I
esniint but think it extraordinary, that those who
op;smie His Majesty's Ministers, seem to marshal
every thing hi that way, whit b gives them the op-
pesrooce of the mast. rs of ceremonies. I must,
Sir, re, eat, that these are resolutions so !neon-
si-tent wilt my sevitiiitrais of justice, that, as aii
honest rim., I Mimed give them my cosicurrrioce or
support. Coluedering these eircunistimers, I have
only to conclude by snoring the previous question."
Mr. liiiounii•si could assure the House It wee not
hi. inteliiimi to detain them long in olrei Mg a few
eiltsetvistime. to their ronahloration. lint he con-
entered hirvis•lf called upon by his learned friend, is
the appeal which he had made to that side of the
Howse, to in what statute or principle of law
to (midi,. t of Lord Chatham was lai.l down as all
offence. linerVVT, iii the first place. he was tu-
t hoed to sac a few weirdo relative to some other
!freemen's which his Learned Friend hart thought
proper to introdesee; a good deal of which was ce•
lately extroneone to the point, more immediately
necli:r the e 'moderation of that House. It had
Leen stet tl„ that respect was duet', the Noble Earl.
en account of his deecetit, and certainly it was 1,..t
Los wish. onlk,ng use of his Learned Friend's
own word% that w the OM or the great Lord Chat.
loon awl the hroth.r of Mr. Pitt" should not
• have jisetice. He concurred with him that the
charm tor of the Nubb: Earl had beet gravely

teadticed by the public press of this country, but
, in particular by that part of it under the influence
of Hie Majesty's Ministers. There calumnies were
encouraged is every direction ; but, whilst they
were assiduously levelled at hischaracter, he treaded
them with a becoming dignity. That they had
now caused was very true, but he would not tres-
pass upon the time of the House by explaining the
reason ; in short, the opprobrium was found to be-
lung to other doors. With respect to the question
I immediately before them, it would be recollected
that his Learned Friend bad admitted the con-
duct of Lord Chatham was unbecomiug and oh-
jectiouable. He would impress upon their minds,
that much was due to the dignity of the House,
for it had come before them, in the course of at-
tending to the evidence adduced on the inquiry,
that Lord Chatham had laid this Narrative before
Hie Majesty, requesting secrecy, and, at the same
time, not communicating the information to his
colleagues. He had also advised, that no steps
might be token regarding the same. Now, this
was the proceeding which imperiously called upon
theta to discharge their duty. It was not the
contents of that paper, but the manner and
circumstances of its delivery to Hie Majesty, which
called upon the House to pronounce its judgment.
Much hail been alleged in favour of the Noble
Earl, that he bad not infringed any part of the
Constitution; but lie was persuaded that he should
find no difficulty in 'hewing. that his conduct was
inconsistent with several obvious principles, which
uo cosistitutional lawyer would venture to con-
tradict. %Vas it nut a principle of the Constitution,
that His ,Majesty's advisers should meet together,
aid there hold consultations for the gootiof the King ?
—ln this coantry, was it not constitutional that the
Kiug skool l have somebody to stand in a respon-
sible situation? And would his Learned Friend
not acknowledge that the conduct of Lord Chat-
hem affected both these principles ? The family
from wheice Lord Chatham spraug had been men-
tioned as a theme of prase, and much of oratorical
encomium had been bestowed upon their departed
virtues. In adverting to this subject, one particular
impression was made upon his mind, for he furcibly
remembered how much the great Leo d Chatham was
extolled for his continual warfare thro'life against the
secret MA uestce of the crown. In the latter part of
ii•dit iced life. he was known to have said, what
was rendered snore remarkable, by thinking of the
pr•vent_ times. that there was a secret enflueme
behind the throne. greater than the throne it-
self. That great man had exerted himst- If through
a whole lite, to oppose any influence with the
crown. and actually declared hit intention to
relisequ'sh every part in the Councils of Him
Majesty. when he found it was impossible to COMM
teruct the evil. The mischief arising from the al-
lowance of that conduct attributed to Lord Chat-
ham, if prat:ll-et, by different counsellors of Hit
Majestj, must he of gloat und injurious extent.
Suppose one counsellor w ere to whist one thing and
&sir, that such a communication should be kept a
profound secret, and lie was succeeded by another,
who wished to overturn the opinions and whim of
a fernier. such a mode of proceeding would at all
times be iojurious sod dangerous to the Constitu-
tion. The argument of the necessity •of going
through the wind, evidence. before they fornied
their opinion, (lid not apply to the case before
them • became the secret advice given by Lord
Chatham was complete and entire within itself.
There was not any thing connected with the
other part of the evidence to be adduced. They
had oily to deter nine whether Lord Chatham,
who hod acted in the way related by
had nut infringed the principles of the Con-
stitution. Even Ministers themselves ought to be
concerued on the preseutoccasion ; for if that trans-
action were allowable, they niiAlit be deemed an-
swerable for that advice which they never gave ;
and also responsible for its consequences. In fair-
ness to those Ministers, he thought himself bound
in duty to pronounce the opinion lie had done upon
the present subject. When lie considered ell the
circumstances of the trsusuction, and eaa 11l ill ed
the resolutions. he wss convinced the charge, in the
first pert. was fully made out against the Ell I of
Chatham.

Mr. BANRES said, it had occurred to him, in
considering this subject. that they ought to pause
before they couvicted Lord Chatham of a breach
of the Constitution, and ought to see very clearly
Li.l down, in what that breach consisted. What,
in this instance, did the charge amount to? That
the Noble Lord should have acted in concert with
his colleugoes hi the Ministry—that they should
consult among the inselves, and that a Cabinet
coolederacy ass neeessary, before any advice was
given to the Sovereign. This W 4, the doctrine
lad down by the last speaker as constitutional;
hilt he mit-t remind that Honourable Geode-
Mao. that the eery name of a Cabinet Council
was unknown to the Cons:itrition--(Aerre! hear!/
lle (Mr. 13rougham) would not Mid them reeog-
weed in any writer upon the Constitution.—They
hail sprung up of u lute date, and were merely
acknowledged for the public conveniency. Oa the
motiou for the Address to His Majesty for the
production or Lord Chatham's communications,
he, as well as others, had supported the question,
thinking that there was it prmiaus Narrative to the
one produced ; and they could see no more reason
for objecting to the call for the nr clout than for the
first. The paper was now be fore them, and they
were in pomioolon of every circumstance connected
with it. What then ? were they to sac that one
of llis Majesty's Privy C0nn...0-11ms, a Peer of the
realm, suit a Cabinet Niiuister, was not to have
access to his Staverrign ? What Lord Chatham had
done might be an offence against his colleagues.
hut was wine against the Constitution. Was It to
lie asserted, that Lord Chatham, in these charac-
ter% and after his functions as General of the
Army had ceased, was not to be allowed to go to
His Majesty, and lay a statement of the pros
ceedisiga of the army before him ?—This was
11111 cri,nr ; on the contrary, it was his duty
to do so.—(Hear !I—No objection coald bs
made to his having verbally made Inc communica-
tion, and yet his tasking it in writing, which made
no real difference, was to be construed :sito offence.
This was a constitutional doctrine he could not un-
derstand. With regard to the second delivered
Na we, he conceived the Noble Emil might, with
equal propriety, deliver it to his Soverrigm, of to
the Secretary of State ; and although the first,with

the desire of secrecy, Might be inkitious to hiqrls,l-
leagues. it certainly was not, in any degree, tips-
rions to the Constitution. As for the request of se-
crecy, they had no Information to guide them to
the motive final whence it pmeceded ; that they
.
'night have drawn from the evidence, but the
mistasonahle interruption which took place in their
proceediugs.—(Allairling to Mr. Faller'e fraeae.)--
They had then to consider whether there was in the
Narrative any attempt to prejudice the Ring
against the naval Coiminander of the Expeditiot.
If there had been such an attempt, it would
have been a heinous moral crime; but though the
Houourable Gentlest:au (Mr. Whitbread) had
pressed it more than ho thought was right or just
gable in his preliminary speech, lie bast abstained
from making it any part of his iuotion. How their
would it appear in their Journal.? That Lord
Chatham, for the bare fact of delivering a Not ra-
the to his Royal Muster, was guilty of a gross
breach of the Constitution. (Hear! hear!) No-
, thing was more dangerous than to charge men with
crimes that were indistinct and utairtiated. This
he conceived to he the cue in the preseut in-
stance, end it was nut because the Nellie Earl
was the brother of him who was his best friend.
and the beat friend of his country, that he re-
fused to stigmatize him for a crime against too
law or part of the Constitution. Ile would defend
the meanest subject from a similar charge. The
Constitution was a large book, and every man hail
his own reading of it.—lt was in the decision of the
present question, in the hands of the majority of
that House, and he trembled for thtir
Much had been said of the influence of the Crown,
but the arbitrary or espy iciouedecietons of the House
of Commons were in his opinion much more dange-
rous than any influence the Crown could ever attain.
(Hear! hear!) Ministers were responsible for all
advice which was alined into action ; but if there
were no act, there could be nothinq to wanted the
interference of Parliament. The Constitution con-
sisted in guarding against whatever was wrong, or
they would wish to prevent But here prevention
was impossible, for they could not prevent advice
being given. It was therefore not unconstitutional.
Since his earliest political life, he had heard much
of secret influence. It was long a prevalent popular'
opinion, to which et length Lord Chatham (Wil-
liam) had given the stamp of his authority, and
rendered it current. But he bad heard it from
others, whose melons of information and authority
he could not diabelivve, that no such thing existed ;
and he therefore diii•reilited the assertion. Ile
would any again, that the Constitution afforded no
remedy against the twitter now brought under their
consideration. Ministers were responsible for every
let of His Majesty, a hether it proceeded from him-
self, from secret advisers, or from their own counsels;
but they were answerable for nothing more. If then,
there could be any base enough to act under the in-
fluenre, and become r. !anvil& teethe suggestions
of others; the constitution could only pettish theta
Ministers. but had no power over the secret ad-
visers. If wrong was done. they might address
His Majesty •to remove, His Ministers; but they
could out address him Ilk the removal of any other.
With them views, boo wield we nothing unconsti-
tutional is the conduct destribed in the first
resolotioo ; and unless the offeace was clearly.
made out, he who dared to give his vete
in favour of the, seeond, must do it on his own
heavy responsibility. This was his opinion, after
most maturely weighing and cousidering the ques-
tion, with reference to all the constitutional know-
ledge and information he had through life acquired ;
awl, it was • further presumption, that what was
done by Lord Chatham, did not at least strike with
this blase of conviction, as unconstitutional!, that
when he communicated to his colleagues his design
of presenting his N orrativr, it never struck one of
them as at all hostile to the estehlistred prac-
tice. As roe its containing concealed iusinua-
lions against the Naval Service. such • posi-
tion could not for a moment be entertained,
for the very day after it was presented, it was, at
the desire of' the Nohle bold himself, by one of
his own friends, moved for to be laid before the
House. There was no azeusetion against that ser-
vice, but a simple narrative of facts. leaving it
open to the Naval Commander to account for those
in which the navy was concerned. If the Noble
Earl hail not desired its production, the House
would have had considerable difficulty in moving for
it, and he doubted that ever they would have been
put in possession of that information, but through
his means. This did not look like a desire of se-
crecy. According to the Constitution, they could
not punish Lord Chatham ; and if there was no
precedent, it would Ise most unmerited to punish
him for an error of judgment. The old prejudice
of secret influence was beginning to revive, and to
be urged to poison the vote against the Noble Earl.
lint he was free from constitutional error. When
the Kiang sent for Mr. Pitt, he was adinitte I to the
closet to give hi* advice, while Mr. Fox, the Minis-
ter, was in the anti-room. He (Mr. Pitt) knew the
Constitution as well as ever man did, and lie would
not have done this, hid he tint been convinced that
Hie Majesty had a tight, separately and secretly.
to ask the advice of his Privy Counsellors.
Earl Teatree hail often heard extraordinary
opinions urged in that House ; but the constitu-
tional doctrines of the last speaker were the moat
extraordinary he had veer heard, and such as lie did
not expect to hear in these days. The lion.
firmer& had stated, that Lord Chatham, is a Privy
Counsellor,liail a right toad' ire His Majesty,atid that
the Constitute del not recognize a Cabinet Coun-
cil. Did he mean to say, that those called to advise
the King, were not to consult and tuilviAr together
before they tendered their advice ? It was precisely
on this principle that the Cabal was funned, by
four Ministers comhieing to give •dv ice, iis opposi-
lion to the Council, and for which the Cabinet
was responsible. Upon this Sir William Temple
advised Hie Majesty to consult on the "'tithed of
overturning the Cabal. This Cabil was the land-
mark for their avoidance, and against it the Con-
. stitutiou had always cried out with its loudest
voice. Let it not then be set up as an es-
ewe for Lord Chatham. He also protested
against that other doctrine of the Honourable
Gentleman, that. sinless some action emoted. there
was no responsibility oil Minister*. The Conan-
' tution was not regulated by law or statute, but by
practices—(Hew I) Was it then the prEctoce of'
the Constitution that a Privy Counsellor was to

V°4l.eib(leil%fctithiletisr7B/38CletfintLeillitpuljeeblic" :era: 11::::::""1111:::11:-:
without punislimeut tit respenisibilitv. % --e.""11
Lord then ex ',reseed his permeal 'Ws
being compelled by his duty to offer 117 or regret bt,
had the cliorge been against th 117"
usol )91n:toriti.ii;gset;:v;weai dt;g•dlt i
i:ol;.l.rr"Lildith"firt7a7b"
elate his
v:regretted tl,e
lutfo:lll6,t_ur:
liar giving
,ee, :old reynirnig it
It was now us f,re ihe public. drawn
the 1in1114.4 (Thar!) Warr It Lord V." '7l:nl'Y
wish ? (/../la (tie* of Bear! hear au"Drt",
from ihr l'reaarry peaches.) Wa, it l :I"
Wit4l? Loud chr-er-$.) \% he Uiru
give the evident e Ise did. VIA Silt it ;it's of L.,'
doter Now that lieu as dared to it by
How coubl Lord Clinthilin say it evis rishv
one city, whet' lie was forced be thr
less it was On another? The 'claim mane buy":
Learned Gentleman opprivite he would ever "
nurt lie trusted, oink a blouse of Commons
it mould be revered. He culled vu them ;'l.-
visit the offence of Lord Chatham on avectint o
oft
memory of Mr. Pitt.—(Cries of no nn tlier
it ea* nut so, let the Learned Gt d
deny the fact. [Here Mr. Stew e
& ""
-
that purpose.] I-he would net be inter lfw
rtj'ted":
the Learned Gentleman would hate an oi
nity of explaining hereafter. Harr could such s
claim he made in the names of a Pitt and
haw, the ono a Minister the mutt misfile:total,
the other the greatest enemy to private i, &nisei
He protested against it. stud would uot allow tl*
shadow of a twine to shield and tamer the violet
of the principles these illustrious 16011 possre,s7
This was the first moment he had ever craved to
Bret the memory of Mr. Pitt. But whet einll4;
have done had he lived to see the favettrte Rewire
of his country chareed acid colonial:nod be alit,,.
cwtinfluence of Id• ono brother ilioretur,
mule II contrary Newel to the lio,wi. how,:be of
the Learned Geuticumu and as for the rejeaci,:.
trodurril, it must he reciillcteel, thin it ,s.• t. ,t
Ins word by Lord Chatham, ;not fort 0,1 41;••a, f•
lllUOPbyhim. Coder the SY I.o.llSlllertl
nopport to the origanal motions.
Gent. on the floor (Mr. Bunke.) told flute tit 0.%
Constitution was lint to be left in the li:1;.(14 rt
co pi itillts•• tuajo.ity 01 that Hoerr. Ile I, .rai;rl.l:•aa
bun nod the Learned Getideorani opt o,ve
Steven!' in rttaru for their eltalkt:v•, 4
precedent in the practice of the I :onstituti,,i, la
each couduct as Lord Chailinm's. Ile ogrrril that
Ministers were fer.pow.ible if they itetrit ler swot
liillilet!ceo If any men could be La,...1 eto.oigh to at
star If then there ever were men hint, it t!,i
tuition ass negatived it world enc,•ie ' ••il;
there never eoulll lie 1421111Ug a 1110,w:A
try to act tinder arty ixirigue or cabal that
Mr. Srut rots, in explanation. stated, hit
nut made the cluirii imputed to hmi and rg, L.l
upon by Earl Temple.. lie had lint chimed
the !louse the excuse of Lord Chatham, in, iire,.l.t
of his brother or father. but had conjured tht!-:
gaoled the words of the first Lord Chaelwa 7a
condemn:emu of his son, and those who nice twd.
1161101101111 to the late Alt. Pitt, to do him corn.
mon justice, and defend him from the spleen of
party spirit.
Mr. C. Jones-roe a was of opinion that LordChst.
ham had hitlwrtu suffered morefrous hisfriends dm
from hiseneusies. The House could not refrimaln.
gether from expressing an opinion upon his rendre%
and therefore the previous question, s Fisch went to
dismiss the matter entirely without notice, could not
have his summit. On coming into the Donee, ta
mind was made op to'consider his conduct as or
constitutional ; but from what he bad beard hoe
the Learned Gentleman near him, (Mr. Steen)
and the refutation attempted by the Learned As
her opposite, (Mr. Brougham,) oral the able coio
stitsitional arguments of the Hon. Godsons
on the floor, (ilr. Baakese) he now enterteord
very strong doubts as to the validity of that op,
More It appeared unconstitutional to h,m,as Lord
Chatham did not act us a Cabinet Counsellor.
but 83 the General of an army. He could
however, go the length of the original rceilie;oci.
which, if agreed Veiniest necessarily be fullimed tt?
by incapacitating Lord Chatham from serving Ho
Mejesty, a punishment by much ton severe, but
would wish to adopt some others, which wonl.l
vent the recurrence of &signifier practice in futile.
Ile had not the honour of an intimacy with th, -
ble Lord, but every owe who knew him must ;e he
that there never was a man in public life more riir•
ueut for fairness, cawdonr, and sincerity. Ile 5e:,.,;.
ed, then, to the Hon. Gentleman, (Mr. Whithree •
in his cooler moments, if he could conceive tit alit
tiormtive was preoemod with any insidious of un-
ligroin! ititention? The conduct n fight he 1,9.1.4,0•
per, last could never bear this character. . •
Noble Lord was seat to accomplish a service ohol•
under existing circumstances, could
phslied—(Haar! hrar !)—Oil his retort.. t
Of preinda e ruts strongly against Imo. 3"i
m natu ly anxious to vindicate Lin o.tn c0.,1'!".
but certainly never meant to throw
upon env other individual. IVith meted t, iii 14t
issdaenee.. a softie-et so much insisted et',
they considered that there ails no pteof ni ii 're
.••
fifty years, it would weaken their bee,' In the r,!•:..
Lion that it at all existe*l. It was indeed like
and goblins, much spoken of, hut ,in roe ; s.yd,
say theie is the man eh° has seen it. 'le o:r
r'-
King William, when lavonnusm did fs,,t, it
notmions, and every one could era w; of 0114 whet.
it was; but in this reign it had escapid
the thirteen years arliiiiiiistration of Lord
pittaAft I'
the sixteen years sdruinivtratiou of Mr•
the administration of Lord Groi.v:i;• . 1:11'1" "1_
imputed to Lord Bute, in his dsy. lea w.. • n.or:m
known historical fact. that Leelnnt... `O far
having secret influence; comehensat of negr.„
Here, however, secret influelice was
twenty days, arid this was all the proof of its
effects. He was not afraid of darqt,erg of this ne,fa
nor of the influence of the crown--what he '
more was the cembinstion of great nod P7;re,.
f.sasilles. to control the trown.---t/fter• • .
from eke Oppositfee.)—G.!,,V,..nl9 „.
' idea as if was erroneous, 13,•t
ample, of its possibility at on 77" ' •
.•
T I all:. •
a When the coalition between Lent lo