The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1809-04-26 00:00:00

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ftfietraotaetion upon principles that were better thee
it he bail stood nl, unfdusliiitielyt sat! imilrlries
siscleioney io iny potter, 1 twee gaiiseel tr din
thetrausaction, and therefore I Val irroxxati.
' was a better and iuure wraith et way of proteediu
and may have some tendency to mitigate the
Iru-
ni.l whieo the Itemise imght beitichned to lid-
judge to him. I wises thnt I•10(110, teliSiOte may he
MIIIMMed which would vindicate the dignity of the
, Howse: übt only the public now, but posterity
hereafter, will look to our elecisiou upon this ne.
casioo, and be influenced by It. 1 remember
' there was a charge usiez brought agelust a Tress
surer uf the Nuvy, upon evidelice given in soother
place ; a Right Hon. Gentleman then argued
that the charge rested upon the testimony of a
witness whose evidence was not eutidod tobelref,
'and whiles. character was to, infamous to jostity
any Confidence. But here is an evidence taken by
our own body, and not liable to the objection sue•
cetera y urged in the case of the 'Treasurer of the
Navy. Will any Member state, that what appears
upou the eeidente in this ewe., if carried into effeai
was-not deserving of punishment? For my part,
I think expulsion the smallest that could he op.
plied to it. I certainly ago not for pisiii,hing the
inteution with -the same seventy ; but then I
am as far from agreeing that no notice should.
be taken of it. A case occurred some tune
ago, of a man attempting to murder another
by striking him with a poker on the head; on
the trial there was some difficulty in aecertaiii.
lag the extent of the crime, iu order to proportion
the punishment; the poker was not an metre.
went to cut with, but the inteetion was equal•
ly manifeet as if it was, end equally punished.
open the same ground, I think that the inten-
tion manifested and acknowledged by the Mini-
stet was sufficient to establish his criminality.
Consider what an edict your compliance with the
motion of the Noble Lord may produce mom the
country hereafter; how natural would it be for seb-
orquent Parliaments to say, when called upon to
punish a Minister who had actually executed what
the Noble Viscount only attempted, in the Parlia-
ment of 1809, the attempt was considered too tri-
lling to be noticed. Surely then the performative
of it now is of no material consequence. Some-
thing Ins been said with respect to aggravation, in
this case. It has been said, that that patronage
did' not fall to the Noble Viscount by virtue of his
own office-, hut was attached to some other depart-
ment, distinct from his. I do tint think that such
interchanges ought to exist. This circumstance,
however, does not appear to one to he any aggro.
vininn of the Noble Viscount's fault ; hut as cer-
tainly it is no extenuation of it ; if that nes admit- !
ted, it would open the door to nututeerle.s other I
abuses; for if a Chancellor of the Exchequer was
to make a corrupt appointment in the revenue,
he might say, I have nothing to do with
that, it does not come immediately 'under my
office, it was in the department •f my friend the
Secretary of State ;" this exchange, this borrowing
of patronage for the purpose of influencing the re,
turn of Membern to Pierhaineid, ought to he pre- ,
vented, end it is upon the strongest conviction of
its nece.bity that I vote for the Resolutions proposed '
by my Noble Frieod."
Mr. CROICIR defended the character of the Mare
quit of Sligo, and contended the Resolutions were
much too severe; he appmved of that part of the
speech of the lion. Gentlernau opposite whiclere-
commended a middle course.
Mr. WYhtit mi.!, that the Hon. Gentlemen
seemed to have misauderstood him, he reconee
mended no middle eourse ; he said, that he rite
pected that the Noble Lord opposite would have
recommended such a course, but for his part ho
did out meats to disapprove in any degree of that.
which his Noble Friend hail adopted.
Lord Mturom apologised for some inadvertent
expression of surprise which had fallen from hint in
the course of Lord Castlereagh's defence:
Mr. W. SMITH said, that the Hnn. Gent. had
succeeded in drawing their attention from the iioly
question that was properly before them. The cha-
racter of the Marquis of Sligo had nothing is
do with the case. The Hunnurable Gentleman,
he thought, would find some difficulty in recoiled-
ing winie iticonsistencias that appeared iu his speech:
lie felt the greatest indignation at the imputution
that had been cast upon the Marquis of Sligo, in
associatiag him with such transactions, but lee
seemed to lose all his warmth. when he contem-
plated the charge niede teethed the hieing ;
he thought that the Honourable Gentleman
ought to have taken a little more paint to
defend theliving, after what he had dune for the
deed. l'he conduct of the Noble Lord was so cul-
pable, that it was impossible for the House to pass
it over, without at least some .tpecies of anima& '
version. As to his (Mr. S.) opinion of the structure
of that House, it might be of very little importance,
but he thought it highly unconstitutional and inju-
rinus to the country, that any such influence should
be nsed in returning Members to Parliament.
as that which the evidence before the Hums went
to disclose. The political offence was attach ag-
gravated by his making an improper use of his pa-
tronage as President of the Board of Cou-
troul. The Directors utaght not to give tail.
Patronage for such puniceee. lle could not sup-
pose they did, hat if they dial, it ass • reason
why the power should be taken out of their
hands, as , had been proposed some years ago.
It was acknowledged by the Noble Viscount that
he entered tom the traffic to facilitate his friend
Lord elancarty to a seat in that house, hot not.
to increa-e the interest of Government ; this was
ludicrous iilee. Lord Clancarty was a Member
of the Board of Controul which the Noble Lord
presided oser, and there credit not he a question
how he would act in that House; he would vote
act-online to the wishes of the perion who placed
him in that situation. While meats iii Parliameut
*ere thus oliteitied, and that through' the medium
aed interest oh Ills Mniesty's Ministers, the people
pf the couiary had mulling to hope. It was vitrAl
known that Boroughs were objects of sale, some. '
times they were the stilt of friend-hip, but more ge-
nerally the 114.1,4011.1 obtaiiiing them had no other
right or claim to them, except the four or live thou-
esiid pot sssss is they whammed for them. It was impos-
sible to wow rare this suoject from the grand question
of Helium isi Parliament. He had heard, in his early
life, the great Chatham say, .• if the House dirt nut
reform itself within, it would, with a ref/valuer,

be leforesed from *Most:" Rebolre,l sec+ a
rorristaiice would never take piker. There wee no
into !het *mild be were sorry to see such onetime
caltN.l for thou him; yet, he was fearful those
loud and dreaded calls would name, if the /loose
wouM not smote to the determination of purging
theruselyee. He did out aivirthe House to exerciatt
their powerit beyond that aaked by the Noble
Mover. He could not oar what objection the Noble
Lord (Broiling) could have to the i?d resolution ;
bet if he had an objection, he would have thought
it more eligible for the Noble Lord to have moved
an amendment, instead of the previous question,
which only mvant that the Irish Commissiowere
' Compensation Bill, or tome other of the like na-
ture, was' of more iteportalice thin the present
-irestion, the corruptiou of which struck at the very
1 'gals of the Constitution. If a private individual
was found guilty of the some crime, he would be
-lent to punishment, and the evidence before the.
House would be sufficient to convict au individual.
He wished to kuow why it 'should not extend to the.
Noble Lord ; his official situation only aggravated
the crime. Whether the negotiation WWI throng 1111.0 I
effector not, thellouse lied no right to ihquire. for
the intention and purity of motives ware the mini-;
besides, the senses could not be abut against the
political intrignes in a sister country (belated) in
which the Noble Lord commenced his political
career. He considered the defence of the Noble
Vi-count, as only a confession of his crime. He re-
ntinticred, in the crime of Warren Hastings, that he
denied every word of hi, former def.lice, aril
void it wns put in, without his considering it.
. The Noble Viscount could not have that excuse as
be had made it priso,tally. The Him. Member
concloded with 111;4, that the rewihitions had his
most cordial lownt, and that be would support any
address that should be movird in concord wtih
them.
Mr. MANNERS SUTTON spoke a few words in
support of the smandinent.
Mr. (iRSTSAN, disclaiming all motives of per-
sonal hostility, or a desire to push the matter be-
yond its fair bearin4, said, he would give his opi-
nion of the transaction as it appeared to Min ad-
mitted oil all 'iambi. It was A negotiation to pur-
-1011.115a a snit in that House. So unparliaineutory,
that it would iictt bear to be stated; to 'sell that
which, by the Laws of the laud, and the Constitu-
tion of Parliament, was net to lie sold. This was
an offenee in silly individual ; but, iu a Minister of
the Crown, it was a high ageravatioa of the offence,
because,ro his case, it became a conspiracy agniust
that courstitution which he wits in a peculiar manner,
from his trust, bound to defend and protect. He did
mot intend to urge this in a peculiar instiller against
the Noble Lord; because he was willing to believe,
as asserted, that lie was free from any evil intention
in the transaction. If, however, this was deserving
of reprehension as a Member of the Etecutive Go-
vernmeet,. it was also an offelice Noble Lind,
in his other capacity of President of the Board of
Contiotil ; thus web there a double breach of trust,,
aael a complicated offence against the soup. Did
it follow, that hecanse it was notorious that seats in
that House were bought SON 4 sold, that Ministe
had • prescriptive right to violate the public Pen.
perty. by the p_turtwe of those seats out of the
publicfunda? This observation would apply equal-
ly to every m Civil,
department—that of India, the
the Ecclesiastical, the itlilitury—all were liable to
' Ole same otwervation. Shall we, then, complain of
die streandets met are polluted. and trot demise the
;-eouree;from which they flow? Shall we suffer priu-
dpals abuse their patronage with impunity ? and
sUI we putitsh subordinate intruders? In what he
list* he did not mean to accuse the Noble Lord of
.atttial corrupt iiitentions in the trensactiomr that
bid taken place, but.looking at the facts use they
aced admitted, he felt himself obliged to give
hie vote in favour of the Resolutions proposed
by his Houcturniale Friend, whet, be considered that
the writership was expressly; appropriated to Lord
liCiancarty, for the purpose of procuriug a seat in
that House.
PeitCTSAL defended the motion of pawing to
the Order of the Day. He contended that the
offence irnprtfed to the Noble Lord, admitting, that
its completion it would be the subject of ani-
madversion, was in its nature only in intention,
and that as such it not to be pat in competi-
tion with the severity of driving the Noble Lord
'from the situation which he filled with so moeh
credit to himself, and benefit to the country.
Mr. PONIONDY regretted the unfortunate sitna-
lion of any situated as the Noble Lord was in the
present occasion. Hetrusted, however, that the whole
tenor of his own conduct would convince the House;
that if lie was likely to fall into error in the discussion,
it would be that of levity, both as to the fact, and the
conclusion to be drawn from it. It was admitted
first, by one of those who had preceded him, that
the fact charged was a Parliamentary offence ; and
.by another, that there was a seaming necessity of
lonian some judgment upon it, and yet they
find both suggested the propriety of passing
all by, and proceeding to the Order of the
I)ay. The one had pressed upon them, that
they should not proceed to' inflict a punish-
mega more severe than the case called for,
sod yet the Resolutions proposed by his Right
lion. Friend did not call for any punishment, as
for a malignant or aggravating offences as it might
have been, if it had bees a motion for the revulsion
of the Noblei Lord from that House, or for an
address to His Majesty for his removal from office ;
on the contrary, all that was moved for, was sim-
ply that the transaction was an offence. It
was admitted, that the Noble Lord, in disposing
of the write ship in favour of Lord Clancertlf•
was guilty of disporting of Patronage in the very
case which was iiiteuded to be guarded against;
namely, that of keeping Patronage out of the reach .
of Parliamentary influence; this was violating the
very object intended to he guarded against. The
question then was whether they should pass such
a trunsachoti by and proceed to the order of thedey.
Admitting then that the Resolutions proposed
misfit be in some respects wimigly warded. why
pass on to the order of the day, why not rather
amend them in such points as might appear obi..
jectionalble ? In habits as he was of optalltimt
the Noble Lord upon principle upon msit"ef
his measures; he had upon all occasions elides-
toorpd to unntrosil his feelings, and hedul so now
in poltirtilar, atm to the Resolutions proposed ;
but he felt it impusoble to arts to passing to the

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'I

miter of the day. tie spoke not of the stele of
the public mind, nor of the ardor evinced upoo the
present oceasioh ; Oil the contrary, he felt that such
trstier's should not weigh in a cave where en Maly.,
dual west:ow:creed; Ind in hir conscience he could
nut agree to the Amendment proposed, and it s ;is
with regret he felt himself called- on to say. that if
after the admissions that were made, they were to
pass on to the order of the day, without aereeieg
to any censore, the example would be most niiii-
chievmta. Their character depended on the divi-
sion they should make ; and therefore he felt hint-
self honed to rapport the motto's of 1111 Hight
Hon. Friend.
Mr. BANKES cautioned the House thit the
Committee osit of which the present question
arose, was nominated merely to inquire Mtn
abuses respecting the East India Coropany. A
spirit of esaggeration was gone forth, sod the same
bleineinight- be impeted ; yet he did not feel in-
clined to go the length of the Resolutious pie
posed.
Sir F. BILAIDTTT rose. mod said ,41—i cannot
see what objection the House can have to the reso-
lution pmposed by die Noble mover. • The Noble
iscount accused did not find any itn4woprwty in
the nrgotiatiou until he learned it could not he
carried into effect. lam one of those perms* who
cousider a negotiation commiatced, as criminal as
if it was put into full effect. I consider the
peisiciple the same, awl the person cmistneue-
in; the negotiation would only be disappointed
by its failure. I have often heard in this House
that there was a certain class of persons called D •-
conteuted, or libellers, (Hear! hear! hear!/
in this country. I do not know of any of t.:at
descripti • • ' believe there are niiniliers, yes, the
die country. who are in rimier of
pi...uog a.. end to the elcatructite triflneuee of
His Majesty's Ministers, I em prond to ocknow- -114
ledge I am one of them that wish to do away with
all abuses. I HIM of °oilist, that there hits not
been any cry of the people, which would entitle
the Noble Viscount or hti l'iseuds to give them
the appellation of disaffected. I believe, sad ti
will insiutain, that the people of this country
were the most . loyal that this Crown, rw eny
other can boast of, while they feel that they
are represented by this Howie: If we do lest
minviece therm they are really represented, I
cannot vouch for their siitishiction.' I toink the
defence of the Noble Viscount we. a nrodest one--
that lie did not think such a person as a broker ex-
isted. This is only an agerrivatioa i.f n., (mine.
Hie hete,it hi Office way uo excuse or elarti.it,l4
the patronage of the Crown for base porous--.: nil
the contrary. Ism of opinion he ought, in the Were
he war situated, to he the guardian, 'o pretest
public ogainst abuses. I ant confident, Cio
Viscount felt, wheo,he was Limiting his Ik recce, he
was convicted b his owe evidence before die Com-
mittee. I am not surprised that Ise should Hot
dunk it an aot that ought to he Ishii 1114 or laves-
egeted in this House, when I reflect on the
,gay.
fitteal ititrignes he woe so well vented is
-eel .Idle
Union. Cuder such circaustancesi_li *mum Lie
lalsuando se the parity of my intentions minot he
'called into question J do carafe's; that the vole
, m-oeus eloopielice of the Noble Lord'has not iii-
terre)M the lout coy origiaal (minima. -The peo-
ple of this country tee/ the weight tit Pie taxes im-
posed on them, and expect that they wilt be
applied: knowing, as they do, that this is not the
case, they looked.up to reform ' • I *lab, end; hope,
that reform will come from Ministers, as'a gra-
tuieows gift, and that, they will not wait until it
tweed from them. VVlsetever may be the opinion
of the Uunourable Gentlemen -opposite, this is
the wish of my heart : but I will etrifess„ if
they .!o not .constritbriraril and give the country
i pledge that they main honestly, I am doubt.
'fill if Oct country will not inset on that
which the apathy or want of foresight of their ser-
vants stidshold front "them. ( Hear Hear
, Will it be denied that the taxes are heavy, mid the.
people feel those taus; and however willing to
subunit to the load, they wished, and not tasty
wished, but would have a fair and actual diatribe-
tion of piitronage. They would not submit to a
'seat in their own House to be bartered (ova iVri..
!iiinship in the East India Company's senrice. If
in individual had been found guilty of the charges
against the Noble Viscount, he would be sin-
tenced to 'a punishment ; and why should his
high rank excuse him ? I am of °wino'', that if
this House does not show its sense of its digust!,
and cast off that part which the slightest suspicion
of corruption attaches, it will passim censure on it-
self—a stain that never could be wiped off. Tots
was more m ravaged, for the persou was a Minis-
ter employed under the Crown. I request, 1 con-
jure you, as you respect yourselves, to act without
party motives, and agree to the Resoluticios of the
Noble Mover. It will silence those persons you
deprecate, and designate as libellers. I feel con-
vinced that the Noble Viscount knew he was doing
wrong when he first listened to this overture ; sod
I cannot divest my inind, but that he was equally
guilty, whether it was carried into effect or not.
Mr.Jonserone supported the amendment, and
.gave; his honour as a gentleman, that he believes'
the Noble I'iseoutit did not act tinder corrupt
motives.
Mr. said a few words in favour of the
amendment.
Mr. Will:mast said, lie would not go the length
of the Noble Mover, yet he thought there oes
some blame to be attached to the conduct of the
Noble Viscount.
Mr. Wm rose and usoved-.-That the
Resolution of the House in the year lie should
be read, which was accordingly read, settiog forth
that any Member of that throw bartering for a
seat in Parliament was unworthy of sitting there.
in. The Honouralle Member contended that the
conduct of the Noble Vkinnunt came wider
the cognizance of that Itetiolntion. He thee
took a retrospective view of the evident e before the
Committee, which he inkeuioutily and' eloquently
descanted on. and concluded by saying however
they voted, the spirit of Reform had takrii mash 4
prepooclerance, that it would ultimately prevail.
Mr. WiIIDNAII explained.
Mr. Cassino end.. that however mach they .
might differ upon the present question, nod on
most occasions, still a conformity of seutiosseit pre-
vailed on the trimmer in which the Noble Lend lid
condooted hitmolf. He objected to rota for the

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