The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1805-04-27 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

On the Motion of Mr. Thornton, a new Writ was ordered
far the borough of Blechington, in the room of James Mats,
•terea,ed.
Uri the Motion of Sir William Scott, the Prue Bill was or-
dered to be re committed on Monday, the 13th of May.
.......

Sir JOHN NEWPORT, in ermisequence of the Order made
on the 7th of March last for an Account of the sums expend.
ed in the proescutions of 'Pelona in Ih.land, not havuig been
hitherto complied with, moved theta mum be forthwith made
to the mid order; which woe agreed to.
_ ...... _

Sir A. S. HAMMOND moved, that there be laid before the
House aCovy of a Letter, dated this 6th of April, from the
Comptroller of the Navy, to the Commissioners of Naval in-
quiry, relative to their 11th Report, together with a Copy of
the Papers referred to thereinieterl.
After some conversation on the subjed, Mr. CREEVEY
'past notice, that on Friday next, he would inure fru a Can-
mine to enquire into the surplus Rmenue of the We of Mae.

COMMITTEE Of INQUIRY.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
moved the order of the day for ballotting fur a se-
lea Committee on the Tenth Report of the Naval
Commissioner s—which being done, the Serjeaot at
Mace was scut to tolled such Members as were to be

found in the Committee Rooms, and various ave-
nues of the House.
1 he Clerk, according to the regular mode of pro-
ceeding in such cases, read over the list of art the
Members of the Imperial Parliament, when such as
were present, and thought proper to do so, gave in
each a list of 21 members, of whom, such 21 mem-
bers as had the majority of suffrages, were to form
the Committee. It was observed, that, with the
exception of Mr. Grey, scarce a member of the op-
position gave in any list. This process being con-
cluded, the names of those who did not answer
were read by one of the Clerks, and a Committee
named to scrutinise the lists immediately, in the
Speaker's Chamber.
Mr. WHITBREAD then observed, that he feared
the ohjesions yesterday made to this mode of pro-
ceeding by ballot were but too well founded. In the
course of the morning, lists were handed about by
order of those persons who stood highest in His Ma-
jesty's Councils, of such persons as the Ministers
wished to have appointed on this Committee, one of
which lists had fallen into his hands, containing,
amongst others, the names of
l.or<f William Russell, Mr Whitbread, Mr. Alexander,
the Attorney General, Solicitor General, Sern,int Rest, Col.
Stingy, Loodeastlereach, Mr. Windham, Sir William Scutt,
Mr. H. Thornton, Hon. Charles Yorke, Mr. Ormsby, Mr.
Built., etc.
If these names should appear upon the return, the
inference, he said, must be clear to every man,
that the Committee was not chosen in an unbiassed
manner. As amongst them there were some names
which appeared to him, for many reasons, highly
objedionable and unfit for such an inquiry. Should
they be returned by the scrutineers, he would move
to have them expunged.
Mr. FOX, in addition to what had fallen from
his Honourable Friend, said, that to Committees of
this kind there was a tubordinate objedion, that the
members eleted had no choice nor means of plead-
ing excuses, as was the case in ekdion and other
Committees.
Mr. SHERIDAN wished to suggest to his Ho-
nourable Friend the propriety of putting the House
in more personal possession of the list, by laying it
on the Table • but being informed that could not be
done, he said that the list having been read, gave
the House a ground to consider whether a ballot
framed in that way by any means deserved the cha-
tader of fairness. It was last night proposed by a
country Member, that each side should alternately
name a Member for the Committee ; but, instead
of that, it was determined to have recourse to the
unfair and partial way of ballot, which was no more
than a mask for the Minister, for nothing was more
notorious, than that it was not a fair, free, and in-
dependent, choice of the House of Commons. On
a former occasion he remembered, that having ob-
tained one of these lists, he made the same represen-
tation that he did now, when the Right Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. Pitt) took fire at the imputation of
unfairness ; knowing, however, that the names were
circulated at the door by the servants of the House,
he moved that Joseph Pearson, the then door-
keeper, be called in and examined respeding his de-
livery of the lists. That was opposed, and on the
division taking place, the Minister had, on his side,
130 against 30.
Mr. WHITBREAD said, he should be desirous

of laying the list upon the Table.
The SPEAKER informed him, that if he had
any matter of complaint to make, the regular mode
would be to put it inroothe shape of a Motion, and
give it upon paper.
Mr. WHITBREAD, in conformity to this,
moved a Resolution,
That it is a high breach of privilege to circulate lists of Mem-
ber. to serve upon pnvaL Committees.
Upon the question king put, the House imme-
diately divided.
For the Motion, 45—. Against it, I.st—Majo-
city, 109.
!REACH OF PRIVILEOF.
During the exclusion of strangers, Mr. Grey
moved the order of the day for calling in Mr. Stuart,
the Printer and Proprietor of The Oracle, for the in-
sertion in that paper, of a libel on the condud of
the House ; and on the door being opened,
Mr. A. WRIGHT was speaking from the gal-
lery, in extenuation of the offence. He was, he
said, one of the mojority who voted the Resolutions
against Lord Melville, and should be as sorry as
any one else, at finding any stigma cast upon his
condud on that occasion; but ire should still be
more sorry to find the people of this country pre-
cluded from discussing fully and freely the condlid
of their representatives. For his own part, he was
no party man ; and therefore lamented to see the
editors of public prints, ranging themselves, as was
very frequent, under party banners, and if that at-
tachment led them into calumnies, they should cer-
tainly be punished in the same manner as for other
off...nee' of that kind. It was different in regard to
the Parliament,. whose charader would always be
best defended by the condo& it pursued, which, in
the instance alluded to, at least was of itself suffi-
cient to repel any calumny. Ile hoped, therefore,
the Hon. Gentleman would not think there was any
necessity for pressing the order of the day.
Mr. GREY said he di4 not well understand the
Hon. Gentleman's °Neel, whether he wished for
delay. ar that no further proceedings should be
taken in this business. If the House thought it a
light matter, he had no disposition to be rigorous.
He was far from being an enemy to discussion, and
if the paragraph appeared to him no more than a
hasty or unguarded comment, he should have pass-
ed it over. The objeft, however, here, was so pal-
pable, that he who runs may read. He could not
conceive more indecent inveftive, and more unqua-
lified abuse, to vilify the privileges of Parliament.
He thought it overleaped all moderate bounda-
ries; but if he found the House in general di posed
to be lenient, he should not oppose any Motion for
discharging the Order of the day.
The Order of the Day being then read, Mr. Grey
moved that the Printer be called in.
Mr. WRIGHT wished to know whether it was
still competent to him to move fur the discharge of
the Order ?
The SPEAKER said, the regular way of doing
so would be, first to negative the proposed Motion.
Mr. WINDHAM declared that the lion. Mover
and others seemed to have much more reluftance to
proceed to punishment than he should feel on this
occasion, unless it were to be admitted that every
man was at liberty to say whatever hepleased of the

character and condua of the House of Commons.
Let those Gentlemen who recommended to the
House to despise it, consider whether they would.
feel themselves disposed to be so gentle, if it ap.
plied personally to themselves; and if not, he did
not see why Gentleme n should be more tender of
their own private charaiters, than of the chant:ter
of Parliament. The 1-e;se certainly passed over
many, and, as he thouglli., very serious instances of
such liberties taken, with negled, tolerance, and in.
difference, but let them comider whether this case
did notgo beyond whatiwas generally tolerated. Such
gross licentiousness of animadversion must always
have the dreadful area of tending to the gener.d
degradation of the higher, and the corruption of the
lower orders. To this new licence, he found all
those dreadful consequences were very much to be
attributed. It changed the whole political eharatler
of the country, and made it different from what it
had been, or what it ever was intended to hsvj
been, both in reason and in pradice. It was scarse-
ly possible to conceive any thing more strong and
gross, than the article now in question. When
Gentlemen deprecated vindiCtive measures, thel
must compare them with the feelings they ought to
possess upon such provocations t and, for the good
of the country at large, it became them not to con.
tinue this culpable system of extravagant tolerance.
Mr. SHERIDAN said, he was certain no one re.
spedted the freedom of the press more than his Hon.
Friend (Mr. Grey) ; and, for his own part, he held
it to he so sacred, that he must fairly profess him.
self to be highly tolerant. The article in question,
however, he must allow to he extremely disiesped.
ful —but, when compared with many other para-
graphs published against their proceedings, it ap.
peared to him rather moderate than otherwise. If
the House adopted new feelings on the sobjea of
discussing and canvassing its conduet, and if it was
determined not to let that pradice go on farther,
it certainly would be no more than justice, e•
give warning that such was their intention, that those
persons should in future be on their guard, instead
of now promulgating it by the punishment of an
individual. The House had long connived at the
Papers miblishing the vi hole of their Whates, and
if they discontinued it now, it would be the most se.

Veil: blow. and one of the greatest calamities that
could fall upon the country. Every Member knew
that they were in the habit (sluicing greater liberties
with each other, and with their own proceedings is
these Debates, than was usual to do out of doorr,
and they should not be too severe upon others, if
they happened sometimes to imitate the munpie
which they themselves had set them. He declared
that on no occasion could he be a frion to orcisteat-
.

ing those who might offend against their privileges
by means of the law officers, for he rememlet:ed
one occasion when notice was taken of A work (Mr.
Reeves's Pamphlet),vrherein that Ilouse °was riescrib-
ed as the branch of a tree, which migct :oard
off without any injury to the Constitute n. A Right
Honourable Friend of his on the other side of the
House (the Attorney General), succeeded in per-
suading the Jury that the assertion did not affe& the
charader of the House of Commons.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHILQU'Et
said, this disenstion cimfireeed the prop rant y of the
advice yesterday given, to take time ft n consider-
ation, and he supposed the Hun. Moves was liar
sorry that he did not follow it. He was of °pintos,
that where notice was regularly taken of such licen-
tious su Ames, it would let down the ,chat oder of
the House net to inffid some punishment fo: them s
but where the abuse had been a long tii(ae ti ilorateds
he must disapprove of selefting a panicsilar instance
for the infsdion of a partial severity. He• would
Rot, on this occasion, argue on the etapedi envy of
sometimes ordering the law officers tr., rtecute;
but when the lion. Gentleman ( Mr. Sberiden) talked
so much of his respell for the freedom of the press,
he thought he might have abstained front i aay cos-
sorious !marks upon the trial by jury. Witco the
accused should be put to the bar, and the Witte
heard what hefted to allege in his own '.indication,
then would be the time to think of lilt erality and
lenity.
Mr. SHERIDAN explained, that She believed
any thing urged by the Right Hon. Gentleman
who spoke last, could not be sufficient to convict him
of any dittesped for trial by jury.
Mr. FOX professed to entertain as I ,igh an opi-
nion as any man could do of trial liy jury ; bat
when there was a question of a direft soffence com-
mitted against the privileges of that Hu use, he must
disapprove of sending the matter to be tiled by any
other Court. Such he did not find to he the prat-
' Lice of any of the other Courts, for they sill punished
contempts of themselves, without havit tg recourse
to others ; after the example of some Courts in Le-
land, which turned climes themselves iot.o constric-
tive contempts. He thought that when there was to
be seen no instance of great perseverance, in the prase-
eution of libels against the Executive Government; it
was not right that any mats shoutd think, that Mollie
Government would punish with rigensri it was Ike'
fedly safe to attack the House of Ctunmons, when
it was supposed to have aged against the sake of
the Ministers ; for he defied any man to say, that
such an attack as this was ever made with impunity,
when the House was known to be acing in unison
with the inclination of the Goveriunette.
Mr. WILLIAM SMITH said there was a wide
distindion between a libel on an individual, and a
libel on the Parliament. The first may go into
questions, when the injured party could have no
means of explanation. This attack upon the House,
on the contrail, would be quite harmless, 401 could
not affect the charafter of Parliament, as the para-
graph itself was so very far from being in unison
with the sentiments of the people. For that reason
hc, for one, should not have taken any notice of it ;
hut, when brought before him, he could not suffer
it to pass. 'The House was accused of party vio-
lence, intemperance, and injustice; and so far was
a libel on the chair, which constituted the majority.
and nlipse dignity, honour, and cbarader, the
House was in duty b.iund to proud.
Dr. LAWRENCE. said, that others could .hest
judge of their own feelings; bat, for his part. he
could not consent to extend impunity to a libel
which affedeil the House, not in its political, but in
its judicial capacity. When the Homo was accused
of hastily pronouncing sentence of condemnation,
without trial, it was not to tae despised, and should
properly have been taken up by the intact* thane
selves.
(7 I

Mr.
33:1r,
mum

House
Thi

when
himsel
taking
that t
memh
which
saying
Comn
no OSC
no gno
it was
tlemai
him tt
himsel
Mr.

scripti
if the

forwat
/forwal

He th
this
lee gd
wish

suPPe°

Mr.
art sh
th.st r

said,

that it
thel
the
plicati
Mtn(
the pr
at Ar

Me
tire u
the N

Mr
to thi
have

Scott,

rey
Best
chase

Mr
the ft

be (i;
Mr

ii 2 wh
Mr

I

best
he
libel
but in
cused
ationi
hould
thou).

Mr. Smart, being then ordered to attend at the
Bar, was shewn the paper containing the offesseive
matter, which he acknowledged as having been
prioted and published by him. He was then asked
" What he had to say for himself When he
shortly addressed the Speaker as follows:
" Pe-mit me, Sir, to assure you, that I very much regret
that anY part of the contetts of my Paper of yesterday should
),.,r incurred the depkasure of tilt. Honourable Nome. If,
S r, I !use expressed myself Mai warmly in favour of Lord
Melville...for whom I Shall always entertain the highest respect
amid est,em--1 beg that this Honourabh. Han,. will view it as
the and
~
language of the heart, and not a wilful intention
to protoke the censure of a power on which our dearest rights
and :,berries depelid. 1 intreat you, Sir, that some allowance
rn.:y be Merle for that Freeelons of Discuvrion of Public kffairs
which for a long series of years has beets sanctioned by common
us,/e ; and that the hasty composition of a Newspaper may
not tw em,idered as a deliberate design to offend this Honour-
abl.• Howse "
Mr. Stuart was then ordered to withdraw.
Mr. GREY said, if the House was satisfied with
the apology, he should have no disposition to go
bother. He was influenced by no hasty motives of
resentment ; and thought the fittest time to notice
the paragraph to be when it came to his knowledge.
and for the present he should move " that the said
oaragraph is a high breach of the privileges of this
House."
The ATTORNEY GENERAL said, he did not
mean to oppose the present motion, as he did not
know how the House could ad otherwise at present,
as on the former day the Honourable Gentleman
would not consent to a delay of even twenty-four
bouts,
though now, perhaps, he was sorry for hay-
ing one so. He could not help observing, that
this great readiness and alacrity to prosecute be-
trayed more of the irritability of soreness, than
of the soundness of charader. The Honourable
Gentleman did not seem always to have the came
sensdrility to his own, as he had now for the cha.
rafter of the House; but be recolleded the time
when all the newspapers contained libels both on
t himself and the House of Commons without his
taking any notice of them. He would not say
that the newspapers spoke the truth, but, lie re-
membered to have read paragraphs in them
which represented the Honourable Gentleman as
saying, in clubs and at meetings, that the House, of
Commons was so lost and degraded. that there was
no me in his attendance, as he could do the people
no good in it. Bad as these representations were,
it was something extraordinary that the Hon. Gen-
tleman did not feel so sorely on them as to induce
him to make any complaint whatever, but withdrew
himself from attendance in his place
Mr. FOX said, that, as be came under the de-
scription now given of his Honourable Friend,
if the Learned Gentleman had asked him at
the time whether these representations were trite.
be should have told him that they were. He
was never ashamed of what he said, or whit
he did. He said the same things that were now
told of his Honourable Friend ; he said them
out of doors ; he said them at the same period
of time in the House, and he said them still. Ile
did think the House of Commons such, as that he
knew he could do no good by attending it, and be
aaed upon that opinion. The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman n-vet, then or since, asked any questions
about it ; but treasured it in his mind to be brought
forward as an observation ad hominem, to be brought
/forward whenever he thought the occasion suited.
He then concluded with observing, that he thought
this {libel, as it appeared when the proceedings of
*e Rouse were not thought to be in unison with the
wish of the Ministers, and when there 'vas reason to
suppose it written by some person in their pay.
The resolution was then put and agreed to.
Mr. A. WRIGHT then proposed, that Mr. Stu
art should be reprimanded from the chair.
Mr. GREY said, he had no great objeftion to
that mode of proceeding. provided the House
Thought it a sufficient measure of punishment.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, that however disposed the House might be to
leaity, yet, after such a resolution, he could not think
that it would be consistent with its d,gi,•;-.• to do less
than commit him for the present ; undiostanding,
that he should afterwards be discharged upon ap-
plication being made for it. He then moved, as an
amendment on the motion, " that Mr. Stuart be for
the present committed to the custody of the Serjeant
at Arms ;" which was agreed to.
Mr. CANNING moved for several papers rela-
tive to the proceedings in the Office of Treasurer of
the Navy; which were ordered.
FLOOR CONTRACTS.
Mr. Serjeant BEST stated, that he had to submit
to the House a transaftion which he should not
have meddled with, if he had not the strongest
assurance of its truth given him b.., a Gentleman
who expressed himself ready to prove it at their bar.
It was this :—ln the year 1795, an order was issued
for sending a number of neutral ships laden with
corr, into the ports of Great Britain, and for ap-
plyilig their cargoes to His Majesty's service. The
11.ords of the Treasury employed Mr. Claude
Scott, a Member of this House, and now in his
place, to sell the cargoes, the produce of which was
?towards of 200,0001. which was suffered to remain
in Mr. Scott's hands from the year 1795, to the
year 1200 He then moved, "that there be laid N.
fore the House copies of the orders given to Mr.
Scott, for the sal* of flour. the produce of the car-
goes of neutral ships ; the accounts given by Mr.
Scott of the produce of the sale ; the time the mo-
ney was suffered to remain in his hands, &c." Mr.
Best added, that he was further informed the pur-
chase of these sales was made by Mr. Scott. with
the putilic money.
V.,. SCOT!' admitted, that this money had re-
m lieed some months in his hands, but that so little
use did he make of it, that he frequently applied to
be allowed to pay it.
Mr. ROSE said, he was glad the motion had
been made. for, to the best of his knowledge, the
money did not remain even for a month in the hands
of Mr. Scott.
Mr. prrr complained, that when notice was given
of this motion last night, the objed of it had not
been mote specifically stated, in order to enable
Gentlemen to prepare themselves for giving an
answer.
Mr. FOX said. that motions were not a part of
the oederly proceedings of the House, but it would
be quite disorderly if in long speeches.
Mr. GREY then referred to the order in the book
in which the objeas of the motion were specified.
Mr. PITT said, he had not seen the entry.

After a trifling conversation, the motion was
agreed to.
Mr. Serjeant BEST next moved, " that there be
laid befote the House a List of all Pensions grant-
ed by the Crown, from the Ist of May, 1804, to the
sth of April, 1805 ; also, Copies of all Writs un-
der the sign manual for any increase of salaries in
the public offices ;" which were agreed to.
THE TOULON FLEET.
Mr. SHERIDAN wished to know whether Go-

vernment had received any official or authentic in-
formation of the sailing of the Toulon fleet ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHKQUER
replied, that no such official information had been
received.

Mr. FOSTER said, he rose in consequence of
the notice he had given yesterday, to move for leave
to bring in a bill to amend, explain, and extend the
Act passed last Session, relative to the issuing of
silver tokens in Ireland. He desired that Aft
might be read, it was entered as read pre
,forma, and
leave was given to bring in a Bill for amending and
extending the Provisions of the said Aft, and for
promoting the circulation of the said tokens.
Mr. G. PONSONBY gave notice, that he would,
at the latter end of next week, or beginning of the
week after, call the attention of the House to the
conduct of the Commissioners for lighting, paving,
Stc. of the city of Dublin. Very large sums of
money were expended under these different heads,
and there was not a street in Dublin that was so
well p.sved as the commonest lanes and alleys is
London.