The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1821-02-16 00:00:00

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„eX !,

It= 'y
t..
pnb_licly knoWn, .
c were iretwa..._ _ . fettle volitiTcittenee.
heed brought To solely to raise the' Ipheitkin
9f,the legality IX the Order in Council, and it
r ..eui.,:ighr, opinion, !elected any discredit on
Ilie .Noble Loral, hat served to mark that
4.401 ant 'end peeeevezing attention with which
always watched over the interests of Scotland.
His own opinion was decidedly in support of the
ruler, and he thought he should clearly establish
II
hicoutrh on the
ui_prucigtouniceul of law andplawar dii ofof ponincetimhnndTredhe
e
tiara would of itself hive been sufficient to eats-
Mieh ita validity; but he would not rest there,
he elioald.coPfine himself strictly to the question
wee whether the Conn-
ing the order? He was
Order on that very Act
had alluded, of the 10th
'l. The Learned LOrd
Act to which he re-
officiating minister of
ild at some couveident
express words for het
i Anne, and the Prin.;
.es. That Was 4 the Act
in Council.—(Hear.) -!
support of that opinion the
Supreme Criminal Court
persons for negletting to
• George I. Tie Noble
' Anne as npplying teddy
Anne and the Princess
'uestion before the House
,dad, or whether it was
Puttee Sovt•reign : and
latter interpretation.
apply solely to those indi-
al heiress apparent, no
we been prayed for
..,, an Order of Coup-
ime of Queen Anne,
be prayed for as
take that print to
Lturned Lord then
',der in Couneil of
of the death of the
~re Elector of Bruns-
nume, as heir apparent.—
.., on the death of Queen
rutted was issued, di.
ir George I. as King.—
persons refused to COM-
smue construction on
which the Order re-
el fur by the Noble
it nippily!.‘ Solely to
incess Sophia ;and they
.he Supreme Court of Jos-
their refusal, the Judges
Inns was meant to apply
•ign and Heir Apparent.
occurred were those of
' ,reorge Hay, in 1715 ; but
I up by any sentence, he
The next ease was that of
15, who was indicted fur
ieorge I. ;" he was found
the penalty of 501., ins-
Anne. I u Maces State
,e 782, was the case of
not praying for George 1.,
tlx Court in the most
for their decision, upon
that though lie had not
the Prince of Wiles, he
A in prying for all the
4 convicted, and sentenced
6 In 1716 also, several der-
,.l under the s ime statute, found
illy sentenced, by the Court of
,aticiary to 1,, ihe fine of 50/. In 1717, George
Fairiie and several others were indicted far like
offences, under the:nalne statute, and underwent
similar sentences. And on the stOili January, 1718,
, several other persons met with a similar fate.—
. Since that time the church of Scotland had uni-
formly complied with the Orders in Council, direct-
, ing the alteration to be made in the prayers fur
. the Royal Family in the same way as in England.
•• . Whatever might be the opinion of the House upon
. those decisions, whether they were right or armor,
they were the decisions of the Supreme Courts of '
Scotland ; and he thought it could not be doubted '
that,. if the Judges hail thought they could pos- '
aiely, consistently with their consciences, come to
any other conclusion as to the application of the
statute of Anne, they would have acquitted the
pp rsons to whose rages he had referred. He had
lafo:e mentioned an alteration which was made in
the time of Qinam Anne; from that period down
to the present time, with only two exceptions,
whenever any alteration was made in the Liturgy
sir England, by an Order of the King in Council
a like Order had been sent doWn to Scotland, di-'
roc:ted to the Moderator and the General Assembly;
and such acts on the part of Government had never
been questioned until the present day. Ile was
quite .surt., Arrefore, and he hoped the Home
would° go.altilig with him in the feeling, that is
sending rfriin the Order in the present_instance, an
intention tied for a moment been entnrimined of
•ceinrnitting the slightest infringement on the fiber-.
ties of the church of Scotland, but that it was
merely done beaeuse it hail been the uniform prim-
lice before. "The Noble Lord had argued that the
• Order was illetil; inasmuch as it directed the pray-
ing '1 in etwesis words;" but by that was meant
n:ily tIM expn;siltlentiou of the King's name, with-'
"nut refereticeto any form. so that if the 11l i l iistef
Intl* said,." God bless King George the Fourth,"
.-: . that was quite:enciugh to pupil the Order. That such
I
wait the paturtd construction of it was evident from
"0!, that the Act of Anne raid they should pray
" -iwila,nitpress Word; fur her Must Sacred Mikity
Qietitt'Anne," • Bic. Now he would appeal to the
"119ble Lod himself, or to any Gentleman at all uc-
, siosinted Pith the practice of the Clinic:ltof Sent-

So, :

...,...... roost expressly r. memi
the Church of Scotland, that any introduction of
the name of the Queen, contrary to the Order in
Council, arising out of political feelings, would be
▪ most reprehensible act. The minister certainly
had a right•to pray by mime for whomsoever he
pleased—fur the whole of the Royal Family,
for the whole of the Presbytery, fur the whole
of his congregation, if he pleased ; hut to in-
troduce any one particular name from political
motives, or to gratify any political feeling, lie
would say was a gross Auer, a most unworthy
and indecent exercise of that right. But if any
Minister presumed to refuse to pray for King
George IV. conformably to the Order, he would
subject himself to the penalty of the Act of Anne;
end if he knew diet any clergyman so refused, lie
should feel it his duty, as the public prosecu-
tor of Scotland, to indict him, and lie lied
no doubt that any jury of Scotchmen would
convict bins under the Act of Anne. He con-
tended that the issuing of the Order having
been founded on the decisions of the Courts of
Scotland respecting the Act of Anne, and on the
uniform course of precedents from 1711 down to
the present time, there was no pretehee for guess
tioilisig the propriety of that o..iler. With respect
to the complaint made by the Noble Lord of the act
of the Kirk Session, he did i.ot mean to defend
for he conceived it to be unwise, foolish, and illegal ;
but the Presbyter', who were a higher aqtliority,
not only ordered it to be erased from their
,be
borilli
but cited the individuals concerned hilt
them. The individuals appeared to'alidisibil,ltud
the Presbytery being satisfied with their ickaoig.
ledgment, dropped all further proceedings. He
cattle now to the other case, which, although the
person implicated was in some degree coil
nected with the former case,' A•irlit,:altoget her
distinct from and disconnected it. They
happened in different place*, tot • different
time, and bad un relation whatever to each other.
lie concurred in every sentiment of approbation
that had been paid to the Rev. Gentleman by the
Noble Lord; he knew he was possessed of the
soundest principles of loyalty and attachment to the
Constitntion, and he regretted that lie refused to
give nu answer to the question proposed to him.
-That gentleman for a considerable time threatened
to bring the matter before the Courts, but subse-
quently referred it to the opinion of the humble
individual who then addressed them, Ile (the Lord
Advocate) thought, that in a matter of political
importance, he was one of the last turn that
should In upplied to; but that Gentleman perse-
vered, and at length lie consented, and gave an •
award, which award was not yet made public.
Sir J. MACKINTOSH, in rising to make a few ob-
servations on the able and candid speech of the
i)Lord Advocate, felt considerably releved by the
Veer and perspicuous speech of the Noble Mover,
'in well as by the speech of such promise. he would
'Aidd, such talent as had been delivered by the
Noble Lord who seconded it, whose name, and the
Warne of whose ancestors had been connected with
every thing deft' teitise'liberties of their country—
and as a Scotehlisan, he felt proud at seeing the
descendants of two of the most illustrious families
in Scotland stand forward on that occasion, to
defend the independence of the Church of their
Country. In considering this subject, lie was
naturally led back to the Revolution, and one of
the first Acts at that period, was to give to Scot-
land that religion that was most conformable and
congenial to the feelings of the people. Ile meant
no disrespect to the Churches, but mentioned this
to shew, that there the interests of the people were
not viewed with indifference. For they considered
that the worst restraints that could be imposed on
any men, were restrictions on religion. ProceAl-
ing on this principle, they established, or rather
restored the Presbyterian faith ; and one of the
essential articles of that faith, was, that the Church
acknowledges no head upon earth. He would not
now stop to inquire into the advantages or disarl-
'vantages of this doctrine; nor would he say, whe-
ther this doctrine was of a sufficiently pliant na-
ture for an established Church. However, as the
rloble Lord stated, this was confirmed at the
Union ; and every successive Sovereign who sat upon
,the throne was sworu to preserve the religion of the
Church of Scotland ; and if any thing could be
considered a fundamental law, it was this independ-
ence of the Church of Scotland, a principle rati-
fied by the Union, and sanctioned by every Sove-
reign when he ascends the throne. He way of opi-
nion that every statute that related to the subject
should be examined according to the strictest and
most rigid rules of construction ; and its pursuance
of that principle the Learned Lord would excuse
him, having been bred in the Episcopal Church,
for saying, that there was something in that
statute which seemed to escape his attention.
The Learned Lord slated, that that statute ordered
that prayers should be offered up fur the (linen and
the Princess Sophie, while living, and asks why the
phrase " while living" should not apply to the
Queen as well as to the Mimes,. Iu his opinion it•
did, and it would be held in any Court in Scothoid
that these- provisions were temporary. But the
Learned Lord had adduced precedents in sup-
, port, of his arguments, and it was worth coil-
sideritig from what period these precedents were
drawn. Between the period of two rebellions,
Ibr scarce had the ashes of one liven cooled when
the flames of another had been kindled into a blaze,
and during this agitated period of heat and con-
fusion certain convictions took place, from whence
Abe Learned Lord adduces his precedents—(Hens)
if a time wheu men were brought up to trial
by scores, with sit eagerness and zeal on the part
of Magistrates which certainly influenced their ex-
ertions to support the Protestant Succeasion, pa-
ltrier rant without occasional deviations from the
principles of justice,; and he certainly could not
think that a period of civil war, rebellion, and 1
bled, was that from which be should like to

cording
pray for name, , •Ilhe _
letter, yet according to the spirit and analogy, and
the propriety of the statute. But the Learned
Lord had waived that part of the subject, with a
degree of dexterity, which, from his usual candour,
is easily free through. It was not, as he stated,
the injoriction that bad been issued, but the inter-
ference of the Order of Council to effect the um's.
sion of the Queen's name, that he complained of, fur
according to the 10th of Anne, there was no autho-
rity to do so. The Learned Lord himself admitted,
that it was en act of the roost egregious folly to
I cite the 32d of George lIL iii support of the mea-
sure. It was a most unjust interference with the
Presbyterian clergy of Scotland. That assertion
would not be denied by the most lame and bi-
gotted follower of Joplin Knox. But the Learned
Lord went a step further, and schnitted what was
the fact, that although the clergy could be com-
pelled not to pray for the Queen here, yet in Scot-
land they could not be prevented from praying for
the Queen if by name, so that, in fact, it all cams
to this, that Ministers assembled together and
advised their Sovereign to expose his authority,
tied issue an order to Scotland to be insulted
and despited.—(Heer, hear.)—But the Learned
Lord asks, are not Ministers perfectly justifiable ?
He admitted that if this were a criminal proceed-
mg that the arguments urged might be a, sufficient
inducement to stay the proceedings, and if they
admitted that this Order of Council was so much
waste paper, and an ill-advised measure, then
he would say it was sufficient to secure the
iiidependence of the Church of Scotland.—
But the Learned Lord was pleased to say that lie
considered this Act as a legal extension of power.
Nuw this matter was brought before the General
Assembly of Scotland; were they ignorant men?
No. And how did they act ? They admitted and
exerted the Order in the way it was meant, and
vindicated it in another. Many human words and '
many human actions are exercised in one sense,
and vindicated in another; and the Learned Lord
has shewn the manner to vindicate the act, arid these
gentlesnen how it should be exercised.—(Heur.)—
And he thought hint even in that chosen spot
(Scotland) some Reverend Gentleineu might be
found who would attach as much importance to the
favour as to the law of the Learned Lord. That
Gentleman had stated, that the Rev. Gentleman
who had been aggrieved had referred the matter to
him, and lie was quite sure that when that award
was wade public, it would be founded in law amid
justice': and if he (Sir James) had ■ dispute to-
morrow, be knew too man to whom he would so
soon Met it as to that Learned Lord, no lustier
how much he might differ from him in political
sentiments.—(Hear. hear.)--He concluded by
stating, that on all the grounds he had mentioned,
he considered the motion of his Noble Friend per-
fectably justifiable.--/Hear, hear.)
Lord CASTLEREAGH would not waste the time
of the House, by adverting to any of the topics
that had been introduced in such a clear and in-
telligent manner by the Learned Lord Advocate—
and lie could assure the Noble Lord opposite that
be had iso feeling of disrespect in any observation
that might have fallen from lien, with respect
to his inotiou. That Noble Lord haul intro-
duced two cases of individual grievance ou
which he founded' his motion, and lie thought
that not only that Noble Lord, but those Gen-
tlemen who surrounded !tim might take a good
lesson to-night and not be bringing every little
cause from the Courts of Justice, and occupying
the valuable time of that House, which could be
so much more profitably employed. And he could
not conceive that the object of this motion was
to obtain individual justice, but to excite discon-
tent mid a spirit of complaint in the public mind.
And what do we find the result of this motion?
Two cases of individual grievance, and both settled
in the best manner, to the satisfaction of the par-
ties ; and he would beg leave to tell the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman opposite (Sir J. Nlackintosh),
tfrat was PO
.ICIIIOIIB lest the liberties of the Church
of Scotland should be in danger, that to pursue
such a course was any thing but calculated to
tranquillise the country, and he really thought that
his great talents might be much more profitably
employed. With respect to the law of the case,
it had been laid down in so clear and so distinct a
manlier, that it was quite usineressary fur him to
dwell on it ; he ceriaiiily never heard a more clear
or able legal argument. However, lie wished to
call the attention of the House to what bole int-
'pediatric an the case—lie meant the 32.1 of
George 111. That was a statute framed for the
regulation of the Episcopalian Church in Scot-
land, in which it was stated, that the King
should be prayed for by name, and the remainder
of the Royal Family subject to any alterations that
might be made by lawful authority. He would
not detain the House longer ; he wits sure the
Noble Lord would see, that after the statements
of the Lord Adiocate, his ease could not be
supported.
Mr. J. P. GRANT observed, that as far as he was
able to judge, the issuing of that document was
illegal, and he would produce the testimony or it
subsequent Act of Parliament to put a legislative
construction on the statute of Anne; for lie could
not look for precedents founded on the decisions of
cases between the King and subject at the time of u
raging rebellion, which shook the Government to its
foundation. The statute to which he ',Boded was
the 3th Geo. I. passed in the year 1719. He was
aware that a legal argument must be distasteful
to the House, but lie could tint -puss this over.
The Hon. Member then mud an extract from the
Act. He was not disposed to bring every little
case of individual grieviusee before the House, and
if this were a case of that description, he oilfield
' rest satisfied by putting it in the hands of the
Learned Lord opposite ; but he must look at it
'as a case of national interest. If it were nugatory
• it was disgraceful; and if not, it must be considered
•

the independence of the Church at
appeared to him that Ministers
first, and then consulted the law ;
id. taken the opinion of the LeAvned
,- he was sure they ntrer would have
a measure that was not called for by
any necessity ; he could not view it in any light but
wanton display of an impotent attack on the
Rent-, hear.)
--,LL felt persuaded that it was done
prejudge the Queen ; he deprecated
every of this kind, which only tended to
bring tempt the Royal authority.—(Hear,
hear.)-1-le would not detain the [Luse at this
period with any further observations.
Lord Carr:Amine and Mr. Maxwat.t. ex-
plained.
Lord ARCHIBALD FIAMILTOW, in reply, said, he
was perfectly satisfied with the state of the
quest►on, us it had been argued. The Noble
l.ord (Castlereagh) had admitted, that the
Order in Council was nugatory ; then if the
Act of• Queen Anne was sufficient for the purpose,
why issue the Order in Council ? If it went to
Scotland that this Order was correct, and the
Privy Council had the right to issue any Order
they pleased for the direction of the Church, it
would have a lamentable effect. If there ever was
a man who tried to throw a 'stigma on royalty,
and to divide royalty amongst itself, it was the
Noble Lord—f lieur)—for he attempted to poi-
son the laws, for after acquittal he treated the
case us if conviction had taken place.—(Hear.)—
The mere que►tion was, whether the Noble Lord
■nd his colleignes had the ruihr to issue the Order,
so as to affect the Church. of Scotland? Tbr•y sad•
the Order is nugatory ; but the question ir, whether
they had a right to issue it ? He brought forward
his motion for no oilier purpose than to establish
the rights of the Church of Scotland, and to show
thut they could not be invaded with impunity.
Lord Carrt.eaxaon. in expiation . suit!, what
lie ineis4 was, that the bringiog of this grievance
night after night before the Howe hail the effect of
inflaming the public mind. There could be no
doubt that ilw proceedings which murk ..lace is. the
other House of Parliament was a teehnicil ac-
quittal.

It

Sir J. MACKIIVTOBH said, the Act of the sth of
George I. made it imperative on the Church of
Scotland to pray fur the King.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
' For the %mien 35
Agaiort it...
Majoriar...i4ip

COURTS OF LAW (IRELAND).
On nor re-adinissiou to the gallery we found
Mr. C. GRANT moving for leave to bring m
Bill for regulating the Civil ride of the Couits of
King's Bench and Common Pleas (Ireland) ; and
also for regulating the Plots or common side of the
Court of Exchequer (Ireland). The Right Hon.
Gentleman stated that the intention of the Rill
was, that the officers of the Court should be paid
salaries instead of fees, as the present sv,itein of their
being paid fees was injurious to the suitors. It
was also dextrous ulna an alteration should take
place as to the manner costs were taxeti; they were
now taxed by persons who might tie suppo•eil to
be benefited, us they were paid by fees. The Bill
provided that there should be two new officers ap-
pointed, with. salaries, whose whole business would
be to attend to the taxation of costs.

Sir J. NEWPORT said lie highly approved of the
measure, and hoped it would be extruded to the
Courts of Equity.
-Mr. Hi G. BENNETT said, ton much praise
could not be given to his Right Hon. Friend who
bad just sat down, as it MoIS through his exeriimis•
and perieveratiCe that the subject was brought
before the Home.
Mr. It. MARTIN wished the taxiiion of coo. in
the Courts to Ireland to be assimilated to those in
this country.
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill.
Nlr. CHARLES GRANT then moved—
" That the Howie should resolve itself into a Committee
to-morrow, to consider what salaries ought to be allowed to
the officers of liar Courts in lieu of fees, to be ptid oat of
the Consolidated Fund "—Agreed to.
COURTS OF LAW (ENGLAND.)
Sir JOHN NEWPORT moved—

" Titer there should be laid before the HMIS, the date of
the appointment of the Commissioners to impure IWO the
abases of the Courts of Lmr is Eng Lola, and ohm the
names of the Cmonsimiosseta, and the bums pid to them

more theirappoisitnient "—Ordered.

Lord FOLKESTONE moved for an account of all
salaries of persons employed by Government shove
150/. per annuw, which had been advanced since
the year 1793.
Mr. GOULKURN wished the Noble Lord would
withdraw his notice, and give notice fur it to.
morrow ; he was not ,wore there would be any ob-
jection to tt, hut at present he did not know at
what office it could be obiained.
Mr. WM. SMITH did nut consider it a motion
that required notice.
Lord FoutEsTonE withrew Isis motion, and gave
notice of it for tu-morrow.
On the motion of the LORD ADVOCATE or SCOT-
LAND, the House resolved itself into II CO 11111 l liter
fir grantiag counitesictlion to the Clerks of the
Court of Admiralty of Scotland.

Mr. CREIVEY objected to any compensation be-
ing granted, fur lie knew of no Court of Admirably
in Scotland, and. of course, he could know
of its clerks. They sat there to retrench, not to
erunt compensation. He, for one, would not grant
n single farthing, for lie knew there were Scotch
jobs as well as English jobs; if they were to go on
at that rate, the people of England would think
they only met for the purpose of granting money.
The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND said, It was
advised by the C mirsioners who were appointed
by the. vote of that House ; they disapproved of the
manlier the clerks were paid, which was according
to the quantity of copy they produced, which was
injurious to the suitor.
Mr. Ww. SMITH said, that he thought this ques-
; lion went to a greater eatent than the motion of his
Noble Friend which be had withdrawn, and the
House ought not to be taken by surprise.
Mr. liaionT was of opinion that many of the
intended retOrms in the Courts of Law were de-
feated by the expense attending them.
Mr. CRKEVET must repeat what he had before
raid, that he had never heard of a Court of Admi-
ralty iti Scotland, or any one else. Then it would
not be too touch to ask, fur the Chairman to report

I- . •
...IV* it intended to supped the honour oT hnd, to say whether they ever heard in any prayer draw precedents to prove t refillai or an attempt on 1
made the Crawn ?—(Hear, hear./—Was it designed to by any sinister of that Church for the Icing, an Act of Parliament.—(H Asir.). Scotia:id. It
Vie
advance the interests of religion ?—(Hear, Jtear.)— any such wordslisaale use of as " Most Sacred no! He had not produced ow single grist to took the step I
For his own part he could discover no motive, on- jesty as. Or " Mist Gracious almjsisty ?" Na rock 'the. Rebellion : they all occurred at a•timi when, for, if they had
less it were to propagate uncharitablefeelings, or words were usKlorevroatilt dielotentioteeithee the decisions of Courts of Ina& were rooseliltett, Lord opposite,-
oo exercise that vindictive spirit which marked the of the Act of Anna, ors f the Order in Council. to affected by the commotion of the times. He done it. It was
lakekat imaraGgedinguipundjarlditicatz Ro ‘ uoded ot.! it, to %mint rmelpreaa form of words- -did not mean to say that there was not the some any necessity ;
---IU-Piiirlitittikerif iirStotirsiid; he moot be 'we . -Aft that wee Teqtrferiiresrthii the iiiiiial guilt attached to decisions in timriAigita- a wanton displ,
...T6
rather .tiiietttly. AD. the observations of the Noble King should he prayed for nomination, and if Inn': he only meant that precedents from such Queen.—(Hem
• tAlop. -ipwle • • ...that were done, .no . express form Of words times should not be adduced to explain the plain, Mr. MAXWE
'whether luau's succereir- y Retwiteing pointed out, the Act was fully complied liberal construction of an Act of Parliament. Ac- with a view to 1
of is doe's 'already pnblicti 1m0ir4.,. ltether with. With respect to the prayer for the Queen, cording to the 10th of Anne, it was obligatory to f every measure
i were jefailed. was of AittlevtobroT464.o.- 'lt had he would most rxpressli declare, as a member of 1 pray for the Kii.g by name, though not by the bring into coon
. _