The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1822-06-25 00:00:00

. 6
hie outlast,. so slgrAitgat yeti' ratrat stage of 114011111rty oat et the,' been sreferl d,r bp Shot Wommt.ble Nrwiliec.e•
the eatedo•-; Mond of a uoitq .or be had w .the gligehni.javy sibiryairirk tisf that' dbe tem- llmpreos. stetted ef to beep star eolywoe 'hick
a decided usisiterrial msjorily. Whit 114 J iabe JPlllfe °a iiltPee the illeteetled alit. at kemeledge among She pearls .tell width "iftwa prineipla of MI. 11101. That, lublt pea,
the ateelaese of that iltyl...(tacittster.)-41e shield not pee. 't add-die cape of the 'MS* PM% sad my iltalMesaaseirta- • net' lees thaw 'SS officor. whieb hid beet field with swam
haps be jamised in allwaing to the raimisom that hod 1 twee df thoCcete• ape are ilewerry.geriltoooltervd rimes( i• farlistreviet althea Hie hat *Me years. Se much ft.r the
prevailed upon that subjecti issit the eeftit primal, lithe Stabile rated is all llama rcywelllkaraneapshinet moodesion l!aswortio• of the growing irearwee of the Crown from Ilse in.
that soesetbiog entroordiaary dust have occorred.--, the same effect iu aiTcrliqt, the eosin" of public aftrirt air I.lCreese of placemee in Parliament. He had stated be he
Wheeler the leformathee which had cricked rim cam trite. I; an at the' imalre Krim' Wonoureble sod Learned •'early pert of the Session, redactions she several depart.,
that they were loW ‘• owe wore each majority and The Gruslema bad pet the raat of the absolute power dm 4 lemma of Getternwoota, jaw whith his Right Honourable
sisters will go out," he cook! not ; but be did know that C, *Ott taedace" of the he'll mad military aereitiv, 'Friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would tabs
en that nerves he sea
be *mold opt, Mlle Mr. Duo. and asked whet nhoot not thee/tient of telluence bedlam'. the ,weisoilit ha the pccuitat 'ear of 140,4100 t. sawed. Ho Imdeew
e
ping, say that he could name illy, bat be certainly did see ereeekee of web AI power *mold gfve over ??,Olga permute in his band a otatriewiteof .the regatta .4 die redocitaaseaf
may whenhr kiwi L Mthe owye *pope, dant we %WU. H. (bird •LeedoWderry)ald teat bite* where the Honourable i ogres elide since ehtipbsaie 44 she war, showing a redeation
trier eight had Toted against ate. Noble Loud, follow him out Grellemaa et that eoriaker, twit it wee south bricionderry eat. lof 11,119 idlers, wish *alaries yamnsating t 340,0001 eerie..
and rote with brat,—(lesalthelia)+4l4 • slaw agriklar Mt- I eullatiaal at 104,4 " (4.10,4 Lomkltiaref)lm4 bee^ able "Ale- sine at the three bemired reduced, by tbe armore mola-
r: occurred a few Bird*. bosh, when a clause wee pan- rive. Rut it saeature llerreeteed of die bisdroebieet to the ie. minded by the Berenetoble Member for (wk Castle,
Pend by the Right H•re•ritol• Member fur Lieerehistle I assareete, bait tha await is whisk she India e• woo verreised, with t zo,onot. a year of salaries, sod ilium which be had.
isladon Bill. thee deo • Alm Ilarogorond of soy ageoeseut tie skaldic/It Wore sowed opporol is( to 150,000 f. a year. Su hat sinte
Csoniog) to be added to the Cora Keg
The Noble Lord agreed to the YruPu'utiva. "led fur tie aselltermwsldbormial w- the Hoewaelretbee the power of the the clown of she war 'here bad twee a redeetion is she sow.
clause, and it was carried. Rat io the soecoodiel heal. of Cwowanawar the • misty end ran was eel esimintidarod•wida her of alarm of 3,011, and in the annual amotnit of **la-
the mil, on wool brr night, it hawing been tea" mleiliehla ablillast.bletrolity to pertleanowa tire otherei4e Ham Yeenwp- ries of 730,0011/. a year. giseeptiurr the Cowan*, which Inas
to throw the weight of Goresesseet ruts the male in kraal I BMW se 6.,•.„...1 He weselsl appeal, lie liessalione us aleosrly •odocgarie die tomes' reduction welch the atom el.
of the agrieuhviral Mitres*, the Noble Lied opposed it, tidal Illbooppeyello lisoelses,wiselary "Mir eallitool Bina hoosies and laborious impair, bad bearable to effect,
•by die sr -'otitis against the !apse losemblibtii!eire thettaills,•shlteir alma friebilbeiltreModsl tams wet. 1101 atwitter department of the unease 'bat

vas supported , major* is
cisme. These test/Ames abielt be Irsd quoted. peult Usat
whatever Illisuster OW affairs of Ceoveraanami.
'oald have. and <quid stwityscomassod • Nokias ill, is that
House; a ossj •ray tot ',Minty composed of omm:um, but
of perisoas who for iheasselvos, *it (anal's, coitus:was. or
&madams, bad hopes awl espeetsittrus obich it ass iu the
power of Govermoast to gratify, sod the necessity of pro-
ellflog the firlditse*t of tibial placed them so moil) vowilee
this hAbseoce of au sdesisistratios, as to remise themetioells
' end sacootrolted cuttecise
1 their

et the Ailmieetty, were set everisol with is Imob etteeellem
bed lebeeelley, however fictive is political eppeeitieet Ile
if they weer in the vesicant habit of whim( with Miele-
hue. The Hueerenble Gentleman had west referred 1
the eelesiel reibeieheretien. is skew the witeet if the
hiatuses 40 the Cratere is that directions. Taw moms of
iefresellepe withie 'twee ,Lesidendenl'e) vas* bed
eel erlehted hiss ewe Maio Is met it store !bee •IteM lbw
!Weber elated by the Nee end ("reed Geetirwiee. N.
sweat '7 have feeknied all the tweeiel oaten ie.*,

Idled fur an indepeadeet . . .
of 'filiarretieis its the discharge of their ditties its unit
Hesse, with the abanlists holder of aay ethos at the pleasure
e( the Crows,. Thew were the causes why the conduct of
Parliament was Away. the same, unifutmly sispportiug the
Misiatry of the day, and only respite with the changes at
Court; cud upon these groouds it wits that be called mine
the House to adopt the Resulation be was about* to propose,
sad which, if adopted, be intruded to follow up with ;tome
specific unasute. But be should perhaps be told, the po-
pular opiaiou was a suffirieut check upon ibis influegce of
the Crows.. ti'loo dewed that in time the voice of the
people mast he heard, arid must base some influence eveu
la that House? While there was a free press—chile the
Bench remained uncoerupt, and the Bar independent
while that House ietsioed the right of diacossiou—while
debate went on, sod the doors of the House were throve
opus, so that the public could know what was goiqg
es there, there was • limit to arb 'racy power. It wev
is min to deity that the publicatiusi of toe procerdiess sal
tbe diecomi iiii s in that Hosea gave as much of sects. ity tm Oka
liberties of she euoutry as Plaid perhaps be had with • eon
rapt Pailiameot, and that the voice of the public would as
te•gth God its way thither, and not without ultimately effect.
snit its rill. But the evil was, that it was not anti' after
ateluge of misery and mischief bad beets prineril on the coos.
try,by yaws of resistance to its wishes, end disregard of its
complaints, that the woke of the people tardily prevailed ;
mid it Win against he delay that be raised his complaint. They
walled until the !pool was raffled and the waters disturbed ;
titey wailed owl! the ear popaii all 4444 the stagnant pool of
serreption,aud then, the grooms and prayers of the people is
the mess time baring horn seat up is vain, they were so
looser able to reskt, sod they did at le .gib what so Jade.
pendent or a reformed Parliarseist would have dose at
tit, yielded to the overwhelming foree of the public will.
The question of the slave Wide proved his wbele cai.e. All
that was wanted at soy period of the protracted, latiorioos,
sad painful struggle, to carry that greet qaeatioo, was the
weight of the influroce of Goverument. OS the last division
na that question, that Kok place in 1805, it wet rejected by
as actual majoiiiy. The ties! year Mr. Fox came iglu
slice, and in the year following it Nang made a Government
Iteration, sorb was ILO change so its favour, that It ca. ese•
turd by 286 ou 16, 'bough it bad been rrjecird but Iwo years
Wore by a decided majority. What did it et prove but sisal
it was only the differesire of • man !setae a Minister or out
' the piecoios the

~..‘a rostaioly ham so._
Colonies. at least saves-eMhilie of wheels were filled by as-
titres appointed by am Governors. He bad dwelt epos the
seeuiototant to °Gros le the Colonies of aromas who PIN
wised in thmeouotry; bat he bad overlooked a 'egotistic@ that
hid been adopted of rowspellioathe holders of patent learn
to reside in the Colonies, • teltaillirt by which ant 1... than 29
offices 10.5sre compatible with Parliament had been exeloded.
%VIM resent t i the morning, of the Crown is the List Iss.•.
dieshe,soold sestovetu assure the Home that if see stream
mosso than that estate I fora lbefoiss of Parliament, or the
adoptioa of she resolution of the Hos. sad Learned Gentle..
Imes, it inieltS quiet its •larios. This neat branch of the in-
n of she Crown which had been much dwelt es .was
that 'wising oat of she increased revenue, sod she too e
illCfeSaffl expertise of collection. The Bosse. wool sri
he surprised that the collection of s revenue of 50,000 _
independent of the isiereasse is the **Weirs of the oliams,
sheath' be ',tended wish a much greater expense than
when it was only a clown' of that enatiowL Bolin
should be glad to know whereas shat forsoilied a Awe
of extended iiitlitsnee or patrooatre of lbe Crown. By
a comparative acewont of the collection of the Cier
toms in the year 1797 (she hooks of the pear 1791 were
consumed in the fire as the Costoss-house), with that of
1811, it appperwl that the ironsh-e of officers is 1797 was
5,728, and in 1521 it was 6,664 ; so that a revenue .ell
double the sinotiat was collected by a number of roam.
less than imathird growler. But be ought to Mass. that •
There were smelly 440 persons lees employed us collects
tug the etthe ditties that wore cadirosed in 1797, The
amount of the salaries is 1797 was 418,0004 and is len
it ens 8311,0001. i bet the (totter part of the I was
owing is the abolition of fees. Is she &trim the member of
olicers employed in 1792 was 4,500, and In 1912 it was
5,881, sal the salaries were, at the former periodl3lll,oool.
' sad at the latter 08,0001, which here a very trifling pro-
ports*s to the i in the amount of revenue col-
lected. Bet she whole of the regulations that bad beets
adopted Is Arse department', as far from tending to In-
crease she inflooscs of the Crown, down to the present
day they had Ipso expressly calculsted to restssis it,
by the setwailecilow sof a morons of promotion by sent.
*wily and merit, issieed of filling up the higher offices
wish fresh appoistaseets. ill applymg his segunseal of
the lucre**. of Palrlesette sad Masseur. accruing so the
Crown fresh the kens,' in the moo •it of the taxes, to the
lacrosse of the rabbit debt, the Hoo. and ' Gentle.
retro-

which caused support or 6 _ House of •
whatever he proposed. Consideriog that it was the dolly
of the House to look stoma upon the changes that
bad token place, to salary thief of the dift rent ermine.
shiners in which it was now placed, from those which
existed at any former period of our history—the d.ffe.
fence to the information of the people—the difference in
the meanies ilromailed by the inteiest and welfare of the
the eouotry—the necessity of enforcing the moat rm.:Seco.
corny m the public expenditure, of paring slows the over.
grown estatilishoui nta iu every dem, 'ascot of Government, of
toweereg the eerie of ■llswances to the servants of the
Crowe as twitch as possible, and redocing the member of
diem Was as we. eimpat We with the carrying on of the
affairs of the country; but ktiowine how vain it was to ►ope
for the accomplishment of these important ohj•cla, while
the Housesuffered itmll to be swayed by the impulses which •
my @nodally had she power to pot in he fell it hie
ditty to call upon the House to declare its determination to
abridge that power, by adoptiog the foilowing gmedisiimi :
° That the iiifluence now possessed by the Crown is wine-
cereary fur maintaining its room Holton., dignity, destructive
of ibe indeproilenee of Parliament, and tnewmisisteut with
the welfare and well-govermeirot of the State."
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY, in rising to answer
the speech of the Hoe. and Learned Gentleman', maid, he
Must throw Maisel( nu the iodulgence of the House, while
he attempted so briefly en she nature of the andertakiug
would permit, to address himself to the leading points of •
the Hon. and Lesrord Gentleman's argument. Tile Hall. and •
Learaed Geoil man had called on the Hence to folne to the
Couelusion will, biro" that the infioenee of lhe Crown is at
Ibis moment destructive of the independence of the Parlia-
ment, and locution's's,t with the doe administration of the go-
vernment of the State ;"•iiti be had endeavoured to make mist
that proposition by an exanituatioa of the increased interne
and expsoidonte of the Government, and the state of its
tsieiel etitablisharirots, end by examining MOP the ',induct
of Parltainnit daring the last twenty years. The Hem. and
Learned Geodes's. had mated to the Home►, that in ease
it should adopt the Resolu ion which he had mused, it was
his inteiiime to follow it sip by some etesaiire, the nature
of which he did not ',sprawly mention, but which lee
(the Maiqua of Londonderry) thought he had more thins
once caught a glimpse of during the speech of the Hu•
Insurable sail Learned Gentleness, thanes he had t.krn
no incousiderable degree of pains In veil it from &wrest ton,
aad it plainly appeored to be Reform of Psrlismeitt—
iCheers.)-1( that were the object of the Honourable end
Learned Gentleman, ohy did he not bring it forward at once,
end place it on the rp.cille groood of the mgiiment .III(
he had taken. instead of sheltering it ender an argument
'pieta the toll of the Ceo•n? He (Lord Londonderry)
himself was quite ready to go along with the Hon. and
Leotard Gentlemsts is admitting that the iufla•nce of die
Croon was spiel and proper object's( Parliamentary j•.Juus);
and if he could make omit a caeca excessive inflococe
ferule wr II the conwitotiooal privilegrs of Partistneti I, iheu
there would be a ardosfactory ground for his bringing furwad
such a propmitioa as that which Mr. Dutioutig hail made to
teatime it within its proper but e•risi then lie would
lot ►ate the field to taro mood sod say that wall a "woo,
w►y there should be a Reform of Parliameol.—( Hear, hear )
The Hououralie and Learned Gentleman bad referred to
the year 1780, and compared t►e extent of the revenue
sad expeurlduie of that day with the present
But that was not coming to close quarters with ilia
leafiest. He must come to a mooch more narrow view
of t►e questilio, io order to show bow the MINI see of the
Crows upeueled upon the P.•rliament. lie did out mean
M Impute to the Hon. and Lra,aen Gentleman any wilful
ollitalement, but he did Sod, that iu the zr id and warmth
of the advocate, he had berm hurried 1011 great VISE& r,
SOS in mane of ►a statements, arid had unduly inflamed
his argument by the inferences which lie hail drawn from
those statements. The Hun. anti Learned Gentleman hail
stated the expenditure of the present year at 28,000,063 L,
bet his Right Honourab'e Friend (the Chancellor of tire
&chequer) did not mesa to take a vole fur mere 111. n
111000,000/.; and the sonnet of expenditure to 1781)
•mild be friend to have been 15,000,0001. But would
lire Honourable sad L d Geutlemao compare the
rireselebnas of OA two periods?—would lee hake tato
'he account the increased population and augmented
'width and resonrcesef the cavalry?—would he look at the
KIM Mind, acted upon as it bad bete by the crews o: the

vas ma at present uortergoi lig • mid seentiu, by Cos.
•isaionera appointed by Parliament. If, therefore, he
*Mid she. that fur the last forty years the shot.
gems of the Parliame•taty a►pheatioa to the subject
St the inflamer@ of the Gunn, had bee• to repress that
influence, to economise the public expenditure, sad to re.
duce the number of offices as much as possible, he treated
be •hnnld have •indicated out outy the Government but
raeiiament front the aspersions of the Hoes. Sod Learned
Grotlensau. The Hon. slid Learned Gebtleman seemed to

hove been more rinaious to wound Parlemma sham so censure I
Gowen:mem; fur he had arraigned the votes it had given at
different times, as tribe, Mod proceeded on any other ground
inn preference to sjust regard for its duty in the discharge of
its important Into. If the Hon. and Learned Gentlemop
was as liberty to contrast the votes which Perliemeett might
hove given at dittereut periods of the same question; if he
~was at liberty to refer to the vote for the repeal of the malt
taw, agreed to in a thin House, sod contrasting it With a
subsequent vote against the repeal, mem Is a full Meier.
, and after a thorough consideratima of the bearioga of
.the
~ m envois the public reedit mid resources of the country,
and upon the come:met of votes given under each a differroce
of circumstances, to fouled an argument of inconaisteory,
or excessive influence of the Crosse ; if the Hine. sod
Learned Gentleman meant to segue that the vole which a
thin Howe had one night adopted, a fuller house on a sub-
sequent night was humid, render o risk of bring charged
with yielding to as undue iolluence, to sopport, *mild the
Hon and Learard Geodesists undertake to *et upon that
reasoning himself, and whenever he (Lord I.) should ham
Hie good fortune to persuade the Noose to rule with him,
epos soy question, wooed the Hoirourable sod Learned
Gestleman promise out to roil to persuade them to
alter their vute?—(Fle ir, and laughter.)—There must he ••
end to all reconsiderstioa of any qwesatem if a change
of opinion in the House was to be liken as proof of
corruption, and to be made the ground of Parlianien.
tery Reform. He could not give into the ureteral
of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, that having
snpported one set of Missistere, it was ioconaisteint in the
House to soppoo I their successors. He was yet to learn that
it was say part of the Mutat-ma ibis House to nominate abs
Ministers to the Crown. He •pprebevided that it was the
practice for die Cross to appoint its own Ministers, sad
that it was the duty of that House to support the Ali.
Meters whom the Cities should appoint—(Hear, hear,)—
an its Mini for the time being—(Hear, her, bear.)—
The Parlowneet, 'bids had been so much reviled, had fah.
filled its duties is the most ememplary manner. It had de.
fended the country agonst her foreign enemies; it hod pro.
weed her against an iietstuated portion of her owe sub-
jects ; it had protected her from the machinations of a
mischievous party within it ; it bad gone along with our
Isle glorious and venerable Sovrreige through the
period of a long and mistral reign • it bad pewee:Neal in Om
- --- - ' ~mime fur the freedom of Why
hail

~, Leonard
mat Lod referred so the Exchequer processes, end bed ins..
deem. • level *regiment whieh he (t►e M•rgwhs of Loa-
doederry) was at s Ines to rioderstand. He, however, mean.
e 4 to ire* supposed that the Merrier of the rewriter must
have Mil to au farrea•r is the number of Earkeiprer pro-
mise, anal had stetted se to the issereasell iefl of the
Crown from that circumstance, from the power irest.d in the
Cha•cillor of the Easehequer to decide in what cases it 'night
be proper to enforce the laws, and where it might be ad-
visible to extend a liberal relaxation of the operation of
those laws; bat so fur from processes ►aving inersased as
be supposed, they bad actually decreased in the period which
the Hon. Gentleas• had selected for comparison. He
had asked for • return of the Exchequer protegees its Scot-
land during she last ten years, a. COlannted wills the
preceding ten years, and lie would and that from 18110 to
1110 the member was 3,000, and in the tee rare ending
in 1810, they were boil leas; he would thert fore meet a
different result from that which be hail captor& Bit' eves
ranting the ■r laws to have Increased the influence of
lb* Crowe, that would sifted an arallinellt either for an
alteration of threw lase, than for • refit. in of porl(aoseot,—
(Meer, bear.)—The Hoe. and Learned Genderless *test re-
rev►ed to the number of plat.• men fo Nehmen?, but it
would be found, that at no period had the smother of per.
Mae holding other ruder the Crown, sitting its that House,
been au small es at present. The Hon. and Leaned Ges•
siestas had said that there were SO 'Ascertain silting is the
H..a.e, bet he (Livid L) auto, not and more thaw 47 hold.
Inc placer w►ich could be said to connect Sherri es all wills the
influences, the Crown. He could out account for the num.
bee a e,e.l by the Hon. *ad Learned Gentleman, even by
supposing hum to loser drawls noon the stores of the Beeches
hew hint —(Lenehier.)—He 'webt have included, perhaps,
the Honourable Menders for Caine (Mr. Abercromby, a
Gesimi.iloser of Bankrupts, and Mr. J. Macdonald, one of
the Clerks of she Pricy Beal), one of whoa (the latter)
held a patent sire fur life. He might also bate sates Into
Abe arrive* the Gallant (Ifficer, the Member for Bob (Colo.
wet Palter, Aide-de-Coop to the Kies), and the Hun and
teamed Member fur Pet. rburouels (Mr. Scarlett, a King.
Counsel)—(l.seghter.)—lii refer. ore to the condom of the
reviled Parliament, lie hoped the Mo. au.l Learned Mem.
ter would tint crustier his view its support of his argument
to the parliament which mope. ted Lu,sl Sidnioutb Is sac.
esssio• to Mr. Poi, nor to this which suppo. led Lord Gen-
ital., but would emend it to the Parliament of liso, sad say
that it was so constituted as to stand in need of reform.—
Aail there were tin irna than three distinct eras at curtail.
anent of the patronage of the Clown since the Resolutions
of that period. .4 large •sad signal alteration was effected by
Mr. Burke's Bill. Aod would the Honourable sad Learnt d
Genii. man say that • afaierial change had nut been effected
in the influence of the Crowe by M.. Pitt, in throwing open
the coutracts for loans, end Ilse army sod navy contracts, to
public coinpetitiosi, united of committee the former prac-
tice of goring them as • matter of favour to the supporters
of Govelnment ? Or by She placing of the revenues of
the Crown and Crow• lends wrote their present (outing'
'1 lie Hun. and Learited Gentlensau said that Mr. Rose stated
Stel places or have been reduced, sod 1,500 to have beets
created l but it was no such 'biog. What be stated was
that elan had been reduced, and 11N1 had been created. But
those alio were offices uf manual labour in the collection of
iLe reveaue; and the others which were reduced were of a
different mature, sod precisely that ghee. iption of offices
which • Mower. %inshore to keep up the itilliseuce of the
Crowe over Parliament, ...sold have beet' desirous of keep-
ing, for they included upwards of three hundred sinecures...-
1u 11104, Mr. Pitt abolished 108 office, with salaries emuuist-
fog to 42,0001. a year, in sinecures of three, four, and Ave
hundred a year each,- in the immediate gift of the Tremotry,
•sad most desirable us objects of patronage. The Huis Mem-
ber, If he had bete disposed 11.1 enansise featly the conduct
of Governante! se rrajteci of its influence upon PillitaMeni,
would have isiqui,ed what had hero ill conduct •tune the
return of peace is respect of the reduction of wake*
and places of profit and patronage that had grows up its
the I deportment* of the public service during tie
war. Many of the ulece• which had beets left untouch-
ed by Mr. Burke, for the 'taunts stated in his celebrated.
speech, such had been the growing spirit of eerier* in
that HOUK, had since been reduced by the me which the
Honourable Measlier for Cul& Castle (Mr. Baulsee) had wilt.
!nutty° ; sod the abobliou of the second Pastelists:table,

_.....MIM•ia

era._
must spirited ers
its steadiness awl perseverance, this reviled Parlimiest hah
conducive thoweevests to • glorious lerameatiooviehielk owl ail
the gloomy fueebodtogo, diesemeniessii predieteonisassiblisoosed
prophecies of the Hutt. and Leeriest Gent. lied been able to
avert. Notwilhatauding all the charges which the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman lead brought Kimmel against the Par-
liament, is stating that they did nut deserve the confidence
of the country, or were not qualAid to midget its affairs,
yet that very Parliament had saved the country sad with
it saved Europe—(Hear, hear.)—He thought it necessary
to say this much, fur he never could sit quietly and bear
lb... Parliament calumniated. He, therefore, called upsets
the House to reject the proposition, fur he warned them that
that Huanorable and Leerued Gentleman would not step
there. He would come at • future lime mud say, " It as
impossible the tiitioiry can ever Hiurhh whilst you have
that nuisance of an unreformed Pailiantent. You must
loomed now, for you laud the basis of it when you sup-
ported my motion." But that Honourable and Learued Gen.
Ileman meant one thing while be professed another. And
if the Parlianieset were base enough to toga their own
dishonour, he should not lung beailce to demand • Bo-
form of Parliament. lie, therefore, called on the House
to proceed to the orders of the day. He thought he had
sbeeu them sofficieut grommets fur forming that determina-
tion. He should, therefore, muse that the other orders of
the day be now read —(Hear, hear.)
The Hon. H. G BENNETT said, he was very unwilling
to rise after the able and argumentative speech of the Noble
Lord That Noble Lord had conaluded so the same high
tune as his predecessors had dune, but be feared the preseut
Hone of Commons would cone to a different conclusion
from that to which former Parliaments had Jose; wheu •
similar proposition had been submitted to them Ministers
were left iu • minority, fur the Parliament then feit as
the country now feels, that the iidluence of the Cullen
was ton strong far the interests of the people --(Hear, hear.)
—The Noble Lord had cantered tutu a variety of details.
He should feel it necessary IC (I.IIIIIW, is some degree,
his example. And Bret with regard to the revenue. Bet
the question as, not the amount the revenue, hut the ex.
pelage of its collection. And when they foiled that is 1792
the &mono of collection was one m•Ilion, and that in 1021
It amounted to hetweesi 4 and 5 million% they must sce that
the indurate of the Croon had increased in il.g same propor-
tion ; and when the Nubile Lord bad said that all these
ogres were reward fur the public 1).11.61, he must say It
wee all • joke, and he was amazed that the Noble Lord
could have the face to make such a statement, in the pry
pence of many whose esperieuce and daily application at the
T y would enable thins to contrsdict
hear!)—He would take the instaiice of the Pust-uffice.
Formerly all the appointments in that establishment were
is the girt of the Postmaster Graeral. It was true, that the
Minister might ask • favour of him ; but at present all these
offices were in the heads of this Treasury. It was precisely
the same with the Stamp office. in this Cession's and Euchre
there was a large array of officers, amouuting nearly to the
number which in the good old times of the country consti-
tuted the mantling army.—{Hear, hear.)—Woh respect Its
the power of the Crown in dismissing officers from the army,
the Noble Lord had asked, Would you infer from one in.
stance that there existed a dispoiestion to stretch the preroga-
tive?" He siothered. " No. be that case ever so bad." But
when he (Mr. Bennett) slated that, since 1793, 969 officers
bad her,. dimmed from site army without • trial, the
Haute would be enabled to estimate the value of the Noble
Lord's argument. He seat came to the number of place_
men in Parliament, and including perilous who held offices
which seemed only uominal, but some in reality valuable,
each as King's Serpents and King's Connect, iherw were gy
persons iu Parliament who received 110,0ont. • year.; be.
sides which, there were 73 pemons holding military and
esval euntenleairios. The House wear swore of the great
of the Crown io the disposal of church patronage,
mad they elan knew that that vegetable body were not le
markable fur wiehleoldine their support. Without meaning
to touch noon Ireland, which wait the most rirbly endowed
church in Europe, where there were mil, 500,000 Protest-
nob, there were in England two Archbishops, 24 Bishops,
33 Deans, std Prebendaries, and 1,020 livings. So the; f um
that the House coald form some idea of the proem of pa.
Wattage in that branch enjoyed by the Crown. lis 1700 it
would be found there were 22. S Peers, and it was stated
upon a particular occasion by the late lard uwerisroi. teat

the member teas kneelers in IVO; It Merin there won 375.
it7ll there was one Marquis; at present there ors 18. In
there were 78 Earls; at present there are 189. le
Mere were 86
,Berom, and at person there me 141--
itror.)-olt wild ea that manner, terming a commoner 11110 $
: ..that iongeoce was exercised; and if any man would go
11Orancti all this. beaches of Petra, he world bed that ninny
ref them hotwers had been conferred for supporting the last
:tear. The Noble Lem, had concluded his speech with a
tygoegyrie on the iete•Parliameot, but the remote, was
41bi beet judge of nat.. By shrivelling they must be knows.
.11011 what was the resat ? They foaled the country a
7:; they mide it isilderness. Tory found it is • stale
I:ity at • time, when plenty was considered as indica-
Mon of plenty and prosperity, and they left it in a state of
omoterty aid ruts.. The agricultural interest* were over-
whelmed with dieters.: the commercial part of the comnin-
sky did nut seem Mach better. The colonial interests were iii
dilate of seketivirledired bankruptcy ; and by that test he
was ready to try the question. He was of opinion that it
Would be • good way to reform Parliament by tarring out
patieenten and peusinners who wore the livery of the Crown,
aid night alter night swelled the majorities. He feared it
'wad of little use fur his Honourable sod Lammed Friend to
oddress • House so ronatitote.l. HoweVer, he would es-
lighten the country, and he still had borr one day to see
the country enjoying • reformed Parliament, and a cheap aid
efficieest Goverument.—(Cheers)
afr.fITIJART WORTLKY said, if the statement. or the
Honourable and Learned Gentleman, and the Hoesourable
Gentleman who jest sat down, were correct, he slieuld an-
donloedly say that a reform in Parliament were neeewary,
and the sooner we bogie the teener. But he thought the
Hoe. and Learneel Gentleman had arraigned the House of
Commons most falsely. He, and the Hoe. Gentleman who
followed him, bad placed the ques lan on the &Mimi ground
neat nothing but • reform in l'arliamest mold save the
col:wiry. Tina he would meet thens on their owe
ground, and say that a referee was ant necessary—(Cheers
has the Oppositine)—.and that a reform could not be ef-
fected, unless they dot away the Monareby—(More cheering).
Iflot was there no inllnesece except in the House of Cow.
moss? Was it ant Items that the Crown had more loam.
once in the other House, and yet that Home always
decided with the Commons except i• one case, where tie
House of Gemstone undertook to dictate to the whole
station. But be sow came to closer 'quarters •ille the Wu.
end Learned Gentleman. He (Mr. %V.) and those with whom
he boil beets in the habit of acting, had been accused anew.
porting Mr. Addington in opposition to Mr. Pitt; but be
Mined that they supported him in opposition to Mr. Pin.
It was sound cuusiitutional doctrine to t that the House
of Commons should listen patiently to the proposition of
measures by s Miuister, and Shen Nippon i them if he felt that
he should .lo so; sod be and his ftProts could nut be ac-
cused of massisisteury in having supported Mr. Addington,
when Gentlemen opposite, who were perpetually taunting
him for his realm's, also gave him their support. It oft
true that at the death of Mr. Pitt it did •ppear to him that
the Government almost naturally frlt into the Mods of Mr.
Fez, and bethought that ibe House of Commons would not
have acted fairly if they did wit give him • teir chalice.
He did not beau to defend all the subaeqwent meaner...
For iesiatece,- he thoaght that taking Ole CbiefJessiice of the
King's Bench into the Cabinet was a ye., 'lmproper Art. He
remembered Mr. Fox laughed, and said, if be wanted to try
lie opposition hoshould just select such • question as that.
but the queasiest wu, after baying supported Mr. Foe,
would it be tight to tell the Yee% that he leas wrong in
seleelisg him! He could not approve of resortine to the
" No Popery" cry, but the result proved that the King and
the people wereisoreed. He now came to the Welchem. ea.
*edition, the vote of all others which be tonal it moo dif.
dealt to reconcile. We were et that lime regard in a war
with France ; ,we had an army in the Peohiging. A grvat
doubt existed. at 10 the diaporti too of Gentlemen opposite to
emery the war to a eineetusion. They hailed it. from with
cheers sa a steam of obtainiso power. Thee- two, alibough
he could not defend the expedition, yet, as he thought, it
mould not be right to 4 siat,lniviog once Mega.. flo much
for Walcheema—(Mach eiteeriag and laughter from the Ow
posilime.)—oWith respect to the malt imr he thought it was
• mere sitaiier of surprise, and ibe subsequent vote declared
the cottoned of the House. Uproot the death of Mr. Peremal
he thought a chase. of Admiastratims should lake place,
and accordingly. he moved a resolution to that efert. Nego-
tiations aceureltitgly mot on. They ell rrmembei eil the ten.
reasonable propenitions of Gentlemen opposite, esti' et
length the motley grew tired. and elerlered that any Gomm
metet was better than nose at all ; and shey well knew it
was tbeir own fault not to have come in then. If they en-
joyed the con' dance of the country they mast come in. But
some how mother it always happened that they sew oppowil
by one parebl the country awl outbid by other,—(Cheers)—
and he couleLtell them that as long as they (littered mono
fotjuthres they never would obtain the rue.fidence of the
aresehle part of the eouotry.—(Cheers.)-0. the imbjegi of
reform here had haw of tote crew attermions in opinions,
as. the store frequently it was discussed the mere erroneous
would ii appear.—(Chtees.)
Mr. PRELsaid he should ant have risen bat for as ob.
senate .... which he understood had Motu made by the Hun.
and Learned !Rover of the Resolution we that distitigu.shed
body whom lir had the honour to represent, mid to represeut
whum he considered Isis highest honour. He Await have
thowtht if there %ore any bed, thst was mitre likely theta
another to escape censure it was the Vole any of thaend.--
( II rsr, hi ar )—With ri street to the specific erminn of the
Hon. and Learned Geolleman, he nui. l
e.stood that he lest
eomplaiserl of their having selected Lord Grenville as Chau-
rellur of the University et a particular petted, sod the n. tit
fur an inconsistency in their enudoet us i pat.icular goes-
lieu. With respect to the first, he would &A what man
possemed bigher claims to the appointamot than Lord
Grenville? Tbey rertainly differed from hie on one par-
ticular subject. But when they considers.' his ioviulatele at.
tachmeist to the ecclesiastical institutions of the country,
if. distinguished and eonstani oppwiliute to those priociples
which brake out at the commeneenmot of the Fetich Reim-
tinier, the distingenthed bosoms he elitanted wi tie at Os.
ford—constituent all these eircusest,oree, he 111,111i1 ask, lila.
there any thing improper in the appoolign.ot, wed ohms they
considered that hr wig opposed by Lord Eldon, the Mire!.
Idly of Oxford war exempt Iron my imputation. Now fur
the measure of 1817. It was erre Ilia. in 184 many per.
mew were coemironotiely crowned to elm meaner' *hie% was
broogbi forward for relieving the Rom in Catfishes, bat
there as a material difference ohms it was brought (unified
in 1917, when tliry had Dot the d• glared opinion of the Kthe
against it. Thee, were very essetitist dtWerenees in tho
question at that period to justify the University of (Orford
in the coarse they lead taken. It would be pre.umption m
him to occupy more of their time. He hoped he might •p.
peal to those feeliugs of regard which every Representative
fell for hie constituents as his apology fur having some fur.
ward.—.( Hear.)
Mr. BROUGHAM rose to reply. He wished irs this DAR
Melton to say one word on .hat had Allies from the Right
Hun. GeetUrman who had, wills seek • natimal swesety, dto
fended his ennstiesents. In one point he seemed to be Milo
informed, fur he (Mr. Brougham) did not blame the trolver-
any fur haciog chosen Lord Grenville. He considered it a
mint et sod proper Orrice. Lord Grenville entice ally rea
sensed all the accomplishments tibiae could qualify
him for the disineelion. But he slid elate, that had
it sot horn fur his near approach to power, it was his
opinion that all these qualihrstions which he' perselised,
would out base obtained for lons the bosomy. He was
much fees disposed to reprobate 'hum who felt a non-
retentions deference to the *twenties of the King than them
who raised a " No Popery" cry against one Adeniuistratiou,
for the purpose of pulling souther, to wit, themselves, to its
stead—Ml of whom, with oue exceptios (Mr. Perron!), he
believed were nut much troubled with reliMous mouples, aid
be believed that their agents out of doers had sa little regard
for the opinions of the late Monarch or the present Kisses
for the opieiimia of William the Conqueror.—(Hoer, hpor.)—
He thought the doctrine laid down by the Hon. Metatberfor
Yorkshire (Mr. %Verney) must unconstitutional, namely,
that we mum not express our disapprobation of 0116solres
selected by the Crown own gone liteal.e• wee brooobt
forward which might perhaps plunge the reuutry its ruin.
To keep in • Government at the most critical period of our
(ate, whet, we were swimming, as it were, for one lives la •
oedema, when France was kotteking al our port; that We
should thee wait meal the Ilissisters hat destroyed thittgasil-•

try, anJ thee tun Hamm that has of coadttet fit/ hot
appear to him coestitotiutell. He sever read the elinetche-
Item au; and if it were thecae*, it was • prsetiteulrichlolif
bees often deputed Iran, sod 'sever more frequently this
•t the terminate*, of the Amweican war. Oa the Recast
caution while* ha. had beutight forward, end the es.
stems which had bees given, bie would leske the Houle
to decide. He had Arm admired the skill of •tbe Noble
Lord in leaving untouched all the *ere parts of as at-
gamest. sad with • due regard Out only to the feelings of the
present Pailieneest, and the character of the past, tb•
staining hintutf fmm enteriag into the subject. and leer-
ing it to the Honourable Member for Yorkshire, who had, in
his opinion (with all due respect), made • most lame sod
inspoteot defence' particularly reopettiog Walcherea. The
argument which he (Mr. B.) had advanced wet this—ln
order to preserve the busses of the Constitution, you meet
ascertain acts, which irfmtiefoefe appear to be changes, but
which, in point of fact, were nu more alterations than wheat
you have removed • weight from one scale to another, yon.
moat replace in It a weight of !he same 'magnitude, in
order to restore the cunnterposse.—(Hear, hear, hear)...
and the cousiterpoile which lie recommended was such an
alteration as would iscresee the intercourse between the re.
presentative and the coutituent. Upon these wounds he
called spew the Horse t• adopt the Resolution, if they ra-
ined the good will and confidence of the country. He
mot use that its a ; but if oilier Pailismessts had cw
limped obdurate until it was too late, it was surely griatiollk
is them to look • little before them, and rescue the man-
try from impending rein.
The Minim thou divided, when there appeared—
For the
Fur the Amemdmeat • • 210

LaNimmiii....