The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1824-05-12 00:00:00

SEDIT:CK'S WORKS.

„,.
' Mr. J. WILLIA 31S said he had • petition to present from art
Individual named Joseph Sm,sn, against whom it had fallen to his
lot to conduct a prosecution so far back as the year 1819 t it war
not to be wondered acif, after spo beg period, he had forgotten th:.
person he alluded to. The petitioner stated, that he was formerly
an artisan residing at Illaccleafteld, where, in consequence of his
failure In business, he became a vender of pamphlets. The pert.
honer proceeded to state, that in the year 1819 he wu prosecuted
no three different indictments; in consequerma of his inability to
procure bail, he *as detained m prison for a coasiderable time, sod
hc declared that during that period he was frog cony chained to
the other prisoners. He (31r. Williams) Wks*” dial his state.
meet was coned, and that be had been treated With lam a! rigour
and violence. On the 12th of January IBM, the pedtiose: was
tried on three indictments, the two heat tharglesblm whit dos pelt-
! licition of seditious libels, the other with &Waft a publicasses.log at Macclesfield, for which he stated he signed the sespdsblos.
conceiving it to be for the purpose of procuring a peeper r
the Commons of England. He states that be ewer =i etas
syllable at such meeting, hot that he was charged on his
having said what was spoken by an individual of the asuni
Buckley. He complitined that this passim had been allowed sole
at large, and had never been called upon so answer for what spas
the head and front of the offending of that da. It was otenain
that the real offender shmild not have been brought to justice, sad
that for his offence another should have suffered the seem pg.
nishment which he was about to brit* before the notice alibi
House.

live the games of the Members confirming fhb Committee to
inquire into the merits Of the petition against the return of a lien:-
bee for Bossiney, were called over. The fettering Gentlemen were
appointed :
Sir J. W. Mitetenth Hon. H. Lindsay Mr. R. R. Cooper
Mr. E: Rogers Lord Normeisby Mr. F. Forester
Mr. F. LawLey. Mr. J, hit W Ridley
Hon. B. O'Neil Nehmen Mi. J.R.Dowdeswell
Mr. H. Ihummond SITE. Benison. Ma. W. Imetb.
The Bonnurable Gentleman (Mr. Williage) *en ~.eroded.
The peftmer states, that on the charges am Oa be ma unteneel
to two years impristruntrt ; and on the ether *lege for atteedieg
the meeting at Maccletheld, to two years rem% nankin altogether,
and including the time he had remained ia hs consequerce
of his being unable to procure bail. a peelgd of *early finer years
and three quarters. Having said thus owe% be(Mr. %%Timms)
begged to be distinctly understood as having had nothing to do
with the motives of the prosecution, sod still lees with the quan-
tity of punishment that feillorted it. That quantity of punish-
ment he conceived spoke for itself! it exceeded, he believed, any
other in modern times for a 'hailer Oftener. Before he went fur_
they, he would take leave to suggest, that if instead of carrying
power to Its utmost v measures of a mete lenient and tem-
perate nature had been eege
adopted, it would still have been the duty'ef
goverment, under all the circumstances and changes which Ind
take' place since the period of the offence, to have taken into con-
sidetation this man's punishment. At the time alluded to, a severe
pressure of distress had made the sufferingiuties mix up dm
distress with the errors of the government. This would always be
the case even if the government was ever so well constituted.
But the feeling would altogether roe away, unless the people
were reminded of it by such occurrences as the one he alluded to.
He would leave it to the Right Memorable Gentleman nem aim
to decide whether such proceedings were wise, perpes , or humane.
The Right Honourable Gentleman the Ch. of the Exche-
quer should hive remembered this when be spoke on a former
night of what he termed the grateful return of a people to comsti-
&animal obedience. Would it not be well If thiseople heard
somethiog more of grace and kindness' than in the well-tufted
of the Chancellor of the Eichequer ? lie (Mr. Williams)
to call the attention of House to the case before them.
A—rgi7months would bring the term of the petitioner's imprionrner.t
to its close ; lie would all likelihood return to society with those
discontented feelings which usually followed such severe prinish-
ment, and it would probably hare the effect of converting the eat'.
Frit to a martyr.
Mr. JA.MFA said the present ease was one of the many of ens
gisterial severity which had amen out of the '.ate of public feel.
tug is the year IMO, when the Mtestratea, under the mithority et*
the law, were allowedio teconductthnerielves as to pure the truth
of the words of Sir William Jane*, when he teemed their powers
" the fiend discretion." Ile thought the House ought to tie stalls_
fled of the injustice of the petitioner's sentence, by the fact that be
had been advised to petition Parliament by the very poems who
were placed over him.
Mr. PEEL said, that the petition which the Hon Gentleman
was about to present to the Howie comprised two objects ; the one
complained of the sufferings of the petitioner before his trial, the
other, that too great a pubishroent had bees inflicted on him. It
WAS otmeenry to obserie that the Hon. Gent. (Mr. Winiams) bad
only yesterday stated to him (Mr. Peel) his intention of hinging the
subject before the !louse, and Ala the cumstanceoccurredfootyears
our
ego, two yews before he held his present office, he had told the
lion. Gent. that if he delayed it he would inquire into its arevits.
He thought, however, that the allegation a a petitioner Ishmael(
should be taken cautiously. With respect to the punishment in-
' flitted, he regretted that appeals were as frequently made so the
House respecting the prerogatives of Magistrates. The Hooray.
able Gentleman (Mr. Williams) had performed his duty, and bad
succeeded in obtainieg a yerdtm against the petitioner: and he
(Mr. Peel) diCoot think there was any thing insisteit in lie
present procecang. The iodividual alluded at had been charged
on five different indictments; two for publishing blaophemhus
libels, we for the publimtion of seditious libels, and awe for a
seditious conmiracy. On three of those indictments he had been
conyiesed, and tie other two were not proceeded with. He had rot
been prosecuted without receiving warning ; hut he had continued
his practices after that warning. had been given. His wife 'had
been apprehemled at the same tame, but she had been liberated, in
consequence of his having stated that be compelled her to dispose
of the works. Ile (31 r. Peel) had looked (lathe trial aiid had third
that after his conviction, the prisoner had held up his het in Coon.
and said " I am satisfied, I thought you would have hanged me."
In the work for which the individual was convicted for caching
the people to insurrection and to arms. Joseph Swan ass row con-
fined, and so far not a (ruffian ; hot was he wrongly co”vireed ?
Comparing his crimes and his imprisonment, he sulfarad has than
others. He (Mr. Peelj =Secretary of State, felt it his duty net to
recommend the petitioner for merry.
Mr. HOME—The petitioner did not ask for mercy, but dons.
plained of his sentence, which was renounced under irritate. feel-
inp. This country eeldotnwhnemed such a courseof proceedinga.
The petitioner never knew the object, hay, did not know the title
of the book for. whose sale he was convieted. And after all,
what was a bletphenions libel ? He should like the Re.;nt Run.
Secretary to define it. The petitioner wee placed in a condemned
cell, denied ion, ink, and paper; his wife in a most dangerous
state of health, for WhAt P for a political offence. Mr. feat.
Iford should not have sat in judgment on that man Swan. particu-
larly after the pert the Magistrates took in tho county of Lanca-
shire. The inipfaratment of four ran land fehalf tor a political
offence exceeded any thing to be timed in the antra% of the mnui.
sition. He was glad the eetitioner looked for no merry r i• was the
only consolation he could have for his unjust mailings. The
sentence upon him was wrong, and more from rime when he
would, he would be a martyr guilty of no moral offnme, and •
man deserving the sympathy of any honest man in eulety.
Mr. SYKES' thought thepunithMent of four years and', half'
confinement for a political Ahem was an outrage upon all Make.
There was however mother topic to which he wished to aide

namely, the diffieuhy of the petitioner finding security foe keeping
tl'e pence site: the period of his imprisonment. The origin of the
insurrections were rut of the heart, but of the stomach, and should
not be reliztlessly punished u they were used to be. A man coo-
tiara so leirg mild not be expected to find friends to bail him.
Mr. PP.EL.--That circumstance will no doubt be taken into
consideration at the proper period.
The petition was then ordered to be laid on the table and printed.
A message from the lords announced their Lordships' agreement
to several yuldic and private Bills.
BEER DUTIES.
Lord STANLEY presented a petition from the inhabitants of
Warrington, mains! the Beer Duties Bill—Ordered to be printed.
Also a petition from the common-brewers of some parish in Lan-
cashire against the same Bill.
Mr. CARTER presented . similar petition from Portsea.
IRISH ATTORNEYS.
Mr. L. FOSTER presented a petition from the attorneys of Ire.
land against the Stamp Duties Bill. The annual licence was a par-
ecular grievance of which they complained.—The petition was or-
dered to be printed.
The lion. Member also presented a petition from Ardle, county
of Louth, against the Bonded Wheat Bill.—Ordered to be printed.
HIDES AND SKINS.
Lord G. LENNOX presented a petition from the butchers of
Chichester against the Hides and Skins Bill.
Sir H. W. WILSON presented a petition from the Licensed
Vic:uallers against the Beer Bill.—Ordered to be printed.

NEORO SLAVERY.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY presented a petition from Newcastle-upon-
Tyne in favour of the abolition of negro slavery.—Ordered to be
ptinted.
Also a petition front the brewers of the same town against the
Beer Bill.—(hdered to be printed.
Also a petition from Bridport, in favour of the Beer Bill.—Oo-
dered to be printed.
BEER DUTIES.
Mr. CURWEN presented a petition front a certain parish in
Cumberland, against negro slavery; ahoa peton from the tanners
of Cockenuouth, against the Hides and Skins Bill.--Onlered to be
printed.
NI,. LA W LEY presented a petition from the licensed victuallers
of Birmingham, against the Iker Bilh--Ordered to be printed.
11m' BAG WELL presented a petition from Clogheen, against
the Warehousing Corn Bill.
LINEN BOUNTIES.
bora O'NEIL presented a petition front Antrim, against the
repeal of the linen hounties.—Ordered to be printed.
Lord BINNING presented a petition from the procurators of
Haeldiegton, against the steam duties.
HUSH TITHES.
Mr. S. RICE presented a petition from the parish af Temple-
N (Tipperary). against the Tithe Bill. He hoped the altera-
tions ar.aele in that Bill would ultimately render it an effective and
useful measure.—(hdeted to be printed.
Captain 11.1t1'CE presented a petition from a certain parish in
Ayrshire, against negro slavery.
Mr. PRYSE presented a petition from the inhabitants of the
county of Carmarthen, against the Window and !louse Tax.—Laid
on the table.
Mr. JONES presented a petition from the town of Carmarthen,
against the Window tax—Laid on the table.
HIDES AND SKINS.
Mr. B. WILBRAHAM presehted a petition from the butchers
of Dover, in favour of the Hides and Sting Bill.
Mr. J. SMITH presented a petition from James ,!"","rusker, of
the county Fermanagh, stating, that in 1823, his cottage was sur-
rounded be forty people, that five of them entered his house and
ill.treatcd his wife and family. Two magistrates took up the CAM
• warmly ; some of the offending panics were apprehended. but yet
illegally admitted to bail. They were tried at Enniskillen, and
acquitted. The Seneschal of Enniskillen seized the poor man's
cow fur coats—an act which might be Irish law, but was actually
contrary to justice and common sense. The poor man was minx-
eptently amused of a riot, and convicted and sentenced to six
months imprisonment—how justly or unjustly he would not say.
The House, however, should inquire into the whole of the pro-
ceedings front their first commencement; into the conduct of the
reagistratm who admitted the former parties to bail, as well of the
•ffteachal who acted in so singular a manner. He did not mean to
say that every word stated in the petition was strictly true ; but
atter every effort at inquiry to ascertain the fact, he believed it to be
true. The persons committing this outrage were Peelers, certainly
rot an Irish name, and the cause of it was one of political
of opinion. He felt in presenting this petition, that he was dis-
charging a public duty in calling the attention of the House to the
• story of this poor man's sufferings and woes. When an outrage
like that he had stated took place, it was the custom here to make
inquiry, and be trusted the Irish Government would follow so use-
ful an example.
Lien. ARCHDALL said that it did not appear the Jury who
tried the petitioner was an Orange Jury, which was the same as a
Protestant Jury. (hear, hear.) It was due to the magistettes and
juries of the county of Fermanagh to vindicate their character from
the imputations thus indirectly thrown out against them.
Lord MILTON said, that being half an Irishman himself, and
boasting that he was so, he deprecated that the Hon. Gentleman,
in defehce of a F h Jury, should cast upon the Protestants
of Ireland the stigma that they were Orangemen ; a band of
people stated as necessary to be Out down, and that in the highest
quarters.
Mr. CANNING said, the Gallant Officer was misunderstood;
he did not mean to say that every Protestant was an Orangeman,
but that they were so considered.
Mr. GOULBURN said he was cognizant of all the facts of the
ease, but he recollected that the petitioner had presented a memo-
vial to him, and the Crown Solicitor had directions to take up the
&WT. and there his knowledge of the matter ended. Ile believed
the inquiry was very properly conducted.
Mr. Plet'N'lihTT said, that when the complaint of the
petitioner was made to him, directions were given for an
upins% and they were prosecuted for the offence. The de-
fence was an aggravation of the crime; the parties, how.
ever went to trial, and in consequence of alibis they were ac-
quitted. If the Seneschal had acted as be was charged with
doing, he must say it was altogether illegal. Though he thought
his conduct wrong, he did not think it was so malicious as to jus-
tify my proceeding in the Court of King's Bench.
The petition was then ordered to be printed.
Mr. JOHN SMITH stated that the Irish Government had
riot dune their duty, and that if a similar outrage took place in
England the Secretary of State would have acted otherwise : •
Magistrate of the county Tyrone had allowed the culprits to bail.
lie felt fully satisfied that if the evils of Ireland were known the
House would not close this Session without making some effort to
remedy them.
Mr. JOHN DOHERTY said, that if the Hon. Member (Mr.
J. Smith) had confined himself to the statements in that petition,
he (11r. l)oherty) would not have offered a single observation to
the House. He had not intended to trouble the House this even-
ing, and nothing could have overcome his reluctance to address them,
except the very severe though indirect attack which had been made
upon the administration of justice in Ireland. He did not rise to de-
bate the petition Mich, ror to vindicate the Attorney-General fur
Ireland, nor the Right. Hon. Secretary for Ireland, but to discharge
what he felt to be an important obligation. Ile was but a new
Member of that ]louse, and it was strange to his ears to
hear charges brought against persons of high judicial station in an-
other country, shim character, talents, and integrity, would reflect
honour even on the bench of this country, where the adniinistra.
non of justice was so unquestionably pure. (Hear, hear.) State-
ments like those in the petition would not be tolerated in Ireland.
The facts might occur there, and so they might occur in England ;
but whenever they did occur, the legal tribunals were open to the
sufferers, and no distinction was ever made between the rich and
the poor man. He was well aware that neither his name nor his
authority were sufficient to decide such a question ; but its he had
just come hum Ireland, where he had had a professional eape-
rie ce of seventeen years, he trusted that his evidence would be
considered as not without its value. Ile had never known the
slightest difference between wealth and poverty when they appeared
a' parties before the Court. He did not speak as a party man—he
ass wholly untainted by party. Though for seventeen year a
public man, yet he never opened his lips on apolitical quo-non be-
fore. Ireland was divided by parties, and they were a source of
great danger to the country ; but for himself he was free from in-
fluence. He apologised to the House for his intrusion, but he
could not remain silent when any imputations where thrown upon
the judicial atlittinie.ration of law in Iteland. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. M. FITNERALD deprecated the religious differences
that prevailed in Ireland, as much as any man. Indeed, where
those teligious partialities anti prejudices prevailed he was not so
solicitous foe the intervention of a jury as in those parts which
were freer from such an influence. 11- would even go so far we to
say, that where those prejudices prevailed he would altogether
prefer to libido-by the alechtion of the Judge, than take the chances
of such a veolice as was to be expected from a Jury constituted of
persists whom minds were biassed and embittered by the unfor-
tunate terejudires that prevailed in Ireland.
Ph. DOHERTY explained.
Mr. PEEL recommended that the petition be withdrawn. It
appeared, that ore important witneas had not been called at the
trial. Thera were other facts of which an accurate knowledge had
nut been arrived at, from want of time to provide it. By with-
drawing the petition at prevent, and calling the attention of the
House to it et a future venal, when opportunity ler procuring
information could be affor&al, those who might be affected by the
petition would he abOft fairly dealt with.
Mr. GRATTAN adverted to a case which fell under his own
cheer/Alien ; some of the offence!' against whom charges were pre-
ferred, were transported for a term of years, and others for life ; he
could only say, without impugning the conduct of the Jury on that
occasion, that if he were in the per -box at that trial, he would not
have returned melt a verdict. He thought every effort ought to
be made to prevent the obstruction of the couffe of justice, by im-
peaching fair and impartial juries in Ireland.
After a few words from Mr. Peen and Mr. J. SMITH, the
petition was ordered to be laid on the table.
CAVAN ELECTION.

, .
Indies. The Honourable Meml
of which he had given notice for G.
of Slay, and the second to the Ist of June.
INQUIRY INTO TILE STATE OF IRELAND.
Lord INQUIRY
rose to submit the motion of which he had
given long previous notice. He felt the importance of the question
and the variety of interests it involved; and, in claiming the in-
dulgence of the House for the time he would detain them, he was
aware how his claims to their indulgence was diminished by his
inadequacy to the performance of the task he had undertaken.
(Ucar, hear, hear.) He hoped that the Committee, for which
he would that night move, would be granted; and, although
his Majesty's Ministers and gentlemen opposite might not feel dis-
posed to entertain his views, yet did he contemplate great ad-
vantages from the discussion of the subject; and then conscious-
ness of the good of which he anticipated it would be productive,
induced him to forego the personal considerations which might
have weighed with him not to bring it forward. (Hear, hear,
hear.) To state all the reasons which should induce the
House to enter into the inquiry would embrace the statement
of a long coarse of events, into the detail of which it was not
necessary to enter. It would he sufficient to say, that since our
connexion with that country, England had ever treated Ireland as
conquerors did the conquered. This hail been the relation between
this and the sister country for centuries. For a long time, too, this
state of things had been embittered and aggravated by religious
differences. It must be admitted that the evils of Ireland were of
long duration, and that such evils could not be removed but with
great difficulties. They should be approached with care, and the
measures intended for her relief should not be adopted with pied.
pitation or acted on with violence. The observations he had this
far made were applicable to the state of Ireland before the Union.
Admitting that up to that period, as the majority of the people were
of a religion different from the religion of the state, it might be ex.
pedient to withhold concessions; yet as after the passing of that Act,
and the incorporation of the legislatures they became a minority of
the empire, concessions might with more facility be made, and im-
provements effected in their situation. Of the union he would
simply say, that in his opinion it was a wise measure. Like all
other measures, however, it was likely to be attended with evils
and advantages—the evils were certain and immediate, the advan-
tages only contingent ; by which he meant, that whilst manifest
inconvemencies must flow from the measure, the advantages which
were to accrue from it depended on a wise administration of the af-
fairs of Ireland. The benefits which a wise administration was ex-
pected to confer were, a decrease of the mischiefs arrising from re-
ligious differences, a putting down of all factions, and an equality
of political rights. (Hear, hear.) The withdrawal of capital con.
sequent on the Union, by the removal of 40 many of the landed pro-
prietors, would be more than compensated by the salutary enact-
ment of legislative measures of this tendency and effect. He
thought a general inquiry into the state of Ireland preferable to
Committees of inquiry into different points. The former mode
would enable the (louse to be more fully and accurately acquainted
with the condition of that country, and to ascertain what points
were most worthy of their attention. There were difficulties, he was
aware, in the way of such an inquiry, but difficulties he was sure
an earnest efon on the part of a Committee of that House would
easily enable them to surmount. As to evidence, sufficient
could be collected in that House to supply every necessary state.
ment in the prosecution of such an inquiry as he proposed. Ile
would anticipate the objections that might be made to the conces-
sion of the motion, with which he intended to conclede; first, it
might be said, that the motion of which the Right Hon. Secretary
for Ireland had given notice on Thursday, would be sufficient to an.
swer the purposes of his motion. The notice which the Right Hon.
tientleman gave related to the continuance of the Insurrection Act,
and did not embrace those extensive and beneficial objects com-
a prised and contemplated within the scope of the present motion ;
and here it should be observed, that the very necessity of calling
for the enactment of that Act, proved the existence of the evils he
had adverted to. It proved that Ireland was not in such a state as
she ought to be, and ~tera:d also the necessity of inquiring into
and remedying it. Hear, hear, hear.) Another objection
which he expected wood be taken to his motion was, the enormous'
length of time which such an inquiry would occupy. As the time
certainly would be considerable, it did not much signify at what
period of the Session this question was brought forward; whether
at the beginnin, the middle, or the end, as it would last more than i
one Session. 'le ( hoed Althorp) had sat on a Committee now i
appointed upwards of three years to inquire into the foreign
trade of the country: would it then he said to be too much
so give some portion of time to Ireland, the consideration
of whose situation did not yield in importance to the
foreign trade, important even as that subject was 7 Surely it
would not be difficult io find 21 Members in that lloussl
to devote themselves earnestly to the promotion of the pros-
' petit), and well-being of Ireland. Among the prominent subjects
that most invited their attention was, in the first instance, the
relation of landlord and tenant, in the exercise of the duties of
which relation many abuses had crept up. If by a Committee
these abuses were fairly exposed, in his opinion such exposure
would greatly tend to rectity and remove them. There was a
running account kept between the landlord and tenant. The
tenant paid his rent in labour: this deprived him of the moans
of paining any little capital which would enable hint to purchase
spinning-esti:els and other machinery, to occupy and engage
the industry of the females of his family. An improve-
ment of this relation would, he entertained no doubt, result from
the Goinmittee of Inquiry, now sought. Again, there were the
Middlemen, aird the evils arising from the subdivision of farms,
and other causes, which would well merit the attentive considera-
tion of such a Committe. The next point to which he would direct
the attention of the Ilouse was, the employment of capital, and
the employment of the people. The able and conclusive speech of
the lion. Member for Northampton (Captain Moberly), on •
former night, must have convinced every person how available
the employnnent and distribution of capital in Ireland might be
mode to the employment of its population. One of the greatest
evils of Ireland was, the distrust that prevented persons in
England from embarking their capital in that country. The
danger was greatly exaggeratetl—the people could not be sup-
posed to entertain a dangerous hostility towards persons who
only aimed at the improvement of their condition. The re-
sult, Men, of this Committee would be to satisfy the people
Gf England that their want of confidence was groundless; and if
this assurance were given, as the deliberate opinion of a Committee
of that House. he was sure it would cause an influx of capital into
Ireland. In doing so, he was convinced that English capitalists
would much more lietititehly employ their money than in many of
the wild ache:nes in which they were at present engaged. On a

-- .
further postponed two motions,
~morrow; the first for the 20th

Mr. ARERCRO3IBV presented a petition from certain electors
of the county of Cavan, relative to the transactions which took place
at the late election of a member for that county. !Sabre. he pre_
aerated it, he begged to state that he had no personal knowledge of
the names affixed to it, with the exception of one gentleman of
property. and which gave him an assurance of the respectability of
the other signatures. The petitioners complained of the improper,
and even factious conduct t.f the Slveriff of the county of Cavan.
They stated that on the advarcentent of Colonel Barry to the
peerage of Ireland, a new writ for the election of a l'eer was ignite%
and transmitted to the Sheriff. The triode in which the Sheriff
gave notice of the day of election was by a pl..canl to which his name
wee subscribed, and at the head of which was placed an ettigy of
King" on horseback. the words " glorious anti iiiimorril
memory, an orange Rag and other indications, which were
writ-known emblems and characteristics of the Orange party

'ln Ireland. This placard ma circulated throughout the county. former occasion lie had svggested the taking off of taint, uan en.
Under these inauspicious circumstances the election commenced. eouragentent of the circulation of capital there. It had been oh-
On the dry of election, all the avenues to the Court-house were jetted to this suggestion, that it would have the effect of making
crowded, and tuck wit the conduct and demeanor of the persons Ireland a manufacturing rival of Englaml. He owned that if such
who pre-occupied the Court.house towards the disappointed cant% were the effect he would rejoice; he would be glad to see Ireland
date (31r. Conte), he was so reviled and insulted, that he was a rival of this country, and emulative of her greatness in menu.
obliged to throw himself on the Sheriff for protection. In the vio- ; factures, in commerce, and in every profitable pnrsuit that
lame which took place on that occasion a murder was committed. !gOCII to constitute national pmaperity. (Hier, hear, hear.)
It was on this occasion also that a speech was addressed, or asserted Rut Ireland was far from that condition yet. Let it be considered
to be addressed, by one of the Magistrates, which deserted at least ! how much more serviceably would that money be employed in
animadversion. Ile congratulated the friends of the successful can- , bringing Ireland nearer to the state of England's pmspefity, wpich
dictate that, '• as Orangemen, they were now a legally constituted was now expended in maintaining police and military eitabiish-
body." He (Mr. Abactoinby) was not accustomed to oppose or meets throughout the country; but it was not so much of the ex-
direct himself against opinions, but the House would Judie what I peruse he complained as of the system which that expense went to
must be the effects of such opinion, coining with the weight support—(hear) a system of arbitrary power and coercive govern-
of the speaker's personal character on the minds of those I Mut, which !Mould not be tolerated wi'hin the limits of a free con.
whom he addressed. The petitioners stated further, that it Mutation, and which must be hateful to every generous and candid
was with reluctance they presented this petition, but that they mind. (Cheers.) The next point to which he would advert was to
did not appeal before the House on the first provocation. In the Grand Jury Presentments, a great evil and a great source of job-
early part of last year a proencation had been given on the occasion bing in Ireland. The amount of taxation for one year was 7a10,0001.
of moving an athltess to the Marquis Wellesley,—an occasion Now was this, he should ask, a sum which Ireland, in its
which ought to have created very different sentiments front those flrent aituneinn,was able to defray for the purpose of roast-making?
which were there minced. A sanguine hope was entertained by Hasit in such a state as that the system of making roads in Eng.
the petitioners that the proceedings which took place in that House I land should be adopted there, or would it not be preferable to in.
last year would be available to prevent the continuance of those so- I traduce the plan of directing a line of road similar to the plan of
cieties, but in that hope they have been disappointed, and the effect !that which prevailed in the Highlands of Scotland ? These were
of the measures of last your has been not to induce the Orangemen ; points which would be properly determined by the I anninittee
to obey the laws, but to evince the ingenuity with which they may be I which he now proposed to be appointed. The next topic to which
successfully evaded. The prover of the petition was, that the Un. he would invite the attention of the House was, the Church.
der Sheriffof the county might be brought to the bar and examined He would yield to tin person in the respect and sincere reverence he
sa to the facts stated in the petition. Ile would only further add, entertained towards the Church ; he thought its existence to be in-
that if the petitioners were not permitted to enjoy the same bless. separable from, and connected with, the vital interests of the
ings and advantages which the Constitution extended to other sub. country ; but considering the number of persons attached to it in
jecta, they would at least be entitled to protection, and not de- , Ireland, and its large revenues, a question might arise as to the pro-
nicd the benefit of the laws which secured that protection to them. priety of granting part of the cheich property to promote objects of
He would conclude by proposing four points on which he requested I State. Connected with the Church was the tithe system. lie ad-
information either from the Member for Cavan or his Right lion. ! mitted that some improvements were made in that system
Friend the Attorney-General for Ireland. First, as to the number; by the Bill lately introduced into that House by the Right
of Innen% of which the panel was composed on the trial (as we I Honourable the Secretary for Ireland; but there were many
understood) of the persons charged with the murder of the person; evils still attached to it which called Mr remedy and redress. The
above alluded to ; secondly, how many of that panel were Protes. r persons who principally paid tithes were persons of a different re-
tants and how many Catholics ; thirdly, how many were objected figious persuasion; they were many of them ignorant persons
to on the part of the crown. and how many on the part of the pd. who acted from feeling and impulse, and who naturally felt the
soners; fourthly, how many of the persons of whom the panel was payment of tithes a great severity and hardship. Resides the tithe
originally composed were on the Jury ? I laws of Ireland were peculiarly intricate and complex ; whereas
Mr. MAXM'ELL (in a maiden speech) remembered the meet-' they ought to be plain and pcefectly intelligible. In England, if
ing which took elate in the early part of last year, and regretted I the clergyman omits to take offhis tithe from the ground in props-
that it had ever occurred. It provoked the discussion of a question : time, he forfeits it. Again, if through negligence be injures the
quite uncongenial with the feelings of the county. Before that dis- property of the parishioner, he hi bound to redress him for
mission there was not a more tranquil or peaceable minty in Ire. i the injury : whereas, there wete no similar provisions in the
land than that of Cavan, and it was but justice to the Catholic* of ! tithe-laws of Ireland, which guaranteed similar protection from
that county to say they did not yield to their Protestant brethren the negligence or injury of the clergyman towards the occupier.
in loyalty and good conduct, feeling that they enjoyed the blessings The Noble hoed proceeded to Faint out various instances in which
and advantages of the same constitution. (Hear, hear.) As to the the tithe laws of Ireland were oppressive on the poorer occupiers of
High Sherifrof the county of Cavan, whose conduct was impeached, the soil, the oppressiveness of which would be mitigated by the
he begged to say that he held in his hand the only notice which result of the proposed inquiry. The factions of Orangemen and
bore his real signature, and instead of the effigy of King William, Ribbonmen, should also enrage the attention of such a Committee.
it simply bore the Royal Anus. (Hear.) it was unfair and un- ' lie had no preference fur either, they were both bad, and entailed
candid in his opinion for the petitioners to attribute to the Sheriff confusion, misery, and every species of distress on the country. It
such conduct, after he had twice publicly denied it, once from the . would not be an easy matter to deal with them, but much might
hustings, and once in a letter, from which he begged to read an ex- . be expected from an effort, such as the Committee would doubt-
tract, to the elect that the placard to which the Honourable less make, to appease the passions by which they were agitated.
Member adverted war, circulated throughout the county without his ! The Noble Lord stated that the londlorda in Ireland formed an
knowledge, privity, or consent. It was to be regretted, that on the ' oligarchy, from which their unfortunate tenants were totally ex -
eyening of the election, a murder took place, but under what sir- eluded; there was a complete separation of interests, and it was
eumstanceit, or by whom, it did not yet appear. A trial took place, I impossible, with the feelings that at present existed between the
' and the persons charged with the murder were fully acquitted, I landlord and tenant, that either confidence or good fellowship could
with the satisfaction of the Judge, and even of the prosecuting ! spring up between them. It could not be denied that the Irish
Counsel. It was too mach the custom of the present day to speak people had just cause of complaint. If he went into the discia-
of Protestants and Orangemen, IR though they were synonimous don of the Church Establiahment, it would there be found that the
terms. He (Mr. Maxwell) WAS not an Orangeman, butat the same Catholics, the great body of the Irish people, were called on to sub.
time he was ready to bear testimony to the merits and services of I scribe to the support of that Establishment, from which they de.
Orangemen. The secrecy of a society was not what in his opinion ! rived no sort of 'benefit. In the next place, the Catholicwere
I made it most objectionable—the objects of the society were what •• excluded from nearly tied offices of the State • not excluded
needed most to be attended to. Estimating then, the societies of ,by the law, but excluded by the practice. It had been stated on a
Orangemen and Ribbonmen by this test, he would say that the ob.; former occasion by the Right Honourable 1./antenna opposite
jests of the Orange Institution was to support the Protestant , (Mr. Peel), that inasmuch as the profession of the Catholic faith
Establishment and Protestant succession, and to tender their as.. formed no ground of exciusion from any offices, still that profession
sistanee and support to every loyal man. On the other hand, ; formed no ground of preference to them. Hat how did it happen
Ribbonmen aimed at two objects—lst, the separation of Ireland ! that out of so many situations to which Roman Catholics were eli-
from England ; and, andly, the massacre of the Protestant. : be gible, so few were held by them, and that too in a country where
would say no more. six-sevenths of the people were Catholics? lie thought that it would
The petition was then ordered to be laid on the table. Ibe but fair, that as they were shut out from the enjoyment of the
Mr. HUM E presented a petition ftom Angus and Meanie, pray- higher offices of the State, there ought to be minor ones to which
inm as we understood, for religious sstablishments in the West they should have a preference. He sincerely hoped that the con-
• duct of the Ri Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Canning)

-me Right ..-
would not be such as to disappoint the country in the conlidenCe
that they had placed in hint. Ile was the only person through
whom that unfortunate country could be benefited. The Right
Hun. Gent. possessed the power to do it, and he trusted he did
not wait the inclination to use that power beneficially. Ho called
on him to come forward for the preservation of his credit and repu-
tation. The Right Honourable Gentleman had at this moment
pester power in his hands than any other man in the country ; he
not only possessed the power, but he possessed also the knowledge
of what was fitting to be done for the exttication of that unhappy
country from its present melancholy situation. If the Right Hon.
Gentleman would exert that power, he would carry with him the
support of every liberal-miedal man in the country. The Noble
Lord concluded by moving,
" That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the
' general state of Ireland; and to report their observations and
opinions thereupon to this house"
Sir 11. PA KNELL seconded the motion. Ile was anxious, he
said, to express his gratitude to the Noble Lord for the very able
speech which he had that night delivered. and also for the very
great exertions and talent* with which lie treated every subject re-
lative to Ireland.
filr. GOULBOURN stated,• that in the observations which he
had to make be should confine himself to the question more pro-
perly before the Howse, without entering into the various topic
which had been, he thought, unnecessarily introduced by the Nobll
Lord. He believed the House could amicipate the course he mane
to pursue, if they did him the honour to recollect the arguments
which he had used on former questions of this nature. In op-
posing the motion of the Noble Lord, he must be allowed to say
that he was not hostile to ir.qury or investigation, as far as they
might be necessary. According to the terms of the Noble Lord's
motion, a Committee might he appointed, and they might, after a
long period, furnish a report replete with information ; but if they
were to go into all the points embraced in the speech of the Noble
hoed, the Committee never could come to the end of their labour.
How was it possible for the House to apply its attention to the ex-
tensive plan proposed by the Noble Lord ? Noaonly was the ge-
neral state and bearing of the Irish Government to be taken into
itonsidention, the grand jury system, and its various abuses, were
also to be discussed. The wealth of the Church Establishment,—
' and whether that wealth was a source of happiness to the people
was also to be submitted to the Committee,—the system of that
establishment, past and present, was to be reviewed. There was
also another subject of discussion, which seemed to beat the bottom
of the Noble Lord's argument; he meant what was called the Ca-
tholic Question. Why should this question be referred to the
' Committee? Why was it debated in that House for twenty years?
Why was it frequently decided. if the question was now to be de-
cided by that Committee ? The discussion hitherto was a mere
waste of time. Was it expedient to add all these considerations
to the labours of the Coaunittee ? He had, at the commencement
' of the Session, pursued that course which appeared to him to he
the most convenient, and which would answer all the advantages
of the Noble Lord's plan, without any of the inconveniences re-
sulting from it. lle thought it well worthy the attention of the
House that inquiry should be made into the state of those disturbed
districts which were made subject to the Insurrection Act. Froin
bringing forward a motion on this subject, he was prevented by
mere accident, and as he could bring it forward substantially, he
would beg leave to add it as an amendment to the motion of the
Noble lord, His amendment would be, that an inquiry by a
Select Committee, into the state of the disturbances known to exist
in certain counties, and the nature and source of these disturbances,
would be expedient. When it was considered how numerous these
disturbed counties were—that they comprehended some of the must '
interesting parts of Ireland, he was of opinion his plan would be
attended with all the good effect that could be anticipated front the
Noble Lord's motion. This was the inquiry he wished for, and
he was sorry to admit there was a necessity for it. Some time
since the Noble Marquis, at the head of the t :merriment in Ireland, I
had reason to flatter himself that there was a gleans amidst the
darkness which portended a return of sunshine, and until he was
disappointed in this expectation—until he saw all attempts fur the
suppression of these outrages were uecless, the Noble Person to
whom he alluded would not apply to Parliament. lie stated why
he thought his motion was preferable to that nut& by the Noble
Lord, and he would now notice a few charges made against the
Irish Government: the first was, that in spite of the frequent ad- I
monitions they received on the subject, had still tolerated thelabuses
in the office of Shears, Mid did not notice the frequent complaints
made on the subject." 'this statement was not just; every legal
effort had been made,.arod attempts were made to procureerideuee
fns trials, and if trials did not take place. it was owing to the ems-1
picion that the evidence would rot be suffichnt. If this measure •
was entered upon, and did not succeed, it ought tubes subject rather
of reprobation than applause with the Noble Lord. With respect
to the exclusion of human Catholic*, even from situations to which
they were by law eligible, he thought the papers laid on the table
gave the strongest answer to that assertion. The proposition was
miasmal with more warmth than perhaps was right ; as the
charge was moat important, it required the most serious considera-
tion on the part of the Irish Government. In the selection of per-
sons fur office, the Lonl. Lieutenant never referred to religious opt-
nions ; he conceived it his duty to consider only the gents and
ability et the individual. In the formation of the new police it
would appear there was no exclusive princii.le acted upon ; the
choice was made with as much fairness as it was possible t
in the police there were 91)0 Catholice, lend a I,fool Protestants.
This proportion should not be taken as a fair comparaon ; foe
when the new system of police was instituted, the old one wee
abolished, and it wee of course expedient and wise to place in the
new body those individuals who were tried in the old. The militia
was disbanded at the saute time, and those persons who were thrown
out of employment by the reduction of the militia establishment,
were preferred to the police. In this case, therefore, the greatest
impartiality was acted upon. There was not the least suspicion of
the exclusive principle alluded to by the Noble Lord in the legal
employments ; he would also deny the charge. If these employ-
ments were considered with regard to emolument, it would be found
die Catholics had the greater proportion. Since the arrival in
Ireland of the Marquis Wellesley, the value of the legal stations,
to which the Catholics were eligible amounted to 11,71)01. a-year,
and of this *sum 3,0001. a-year was held by a Catholic. Ile would,
therefore, appeal to the House. and ask if this was a proof of ex-
clusion as to the Catholics? Ile was moat anxious to explain the
conduct of the Irish Government, as it would, in his opinion, be
highly impolitic and unjust to attend to any consideratimas in such
mutters, except the weight of talent. There was another subject
alluded to—the wealth of the Church; the Noble Lord was of opi-

''him that the welfare of the Montry world be affected hO a differont overrun from the time of Henry the Second to that of gam
distribution or this property to this he aid not norm He ad. Elizabeth, but never subdued; the work which was commune
witted the Church of Ireland was highly eedowed, much higher by by Strongbow had been left unfinished, and the reformation
comparison than the Chutch in Engiaod ; bet from circumstances , aught to have been looked on as a deliverance, was trd
this wealth was peculiarly beneficial to that country. The Clergy- with a very different feeling. Who, lie would ask, that had any
man there was hound by a &mirk; duty ; his funds should not be knowledge of Ireland, or had looked into her history, could lay
!divided or impaired, if it was not the intention of the House to that he ad a specific fur disorders such as hers? Who would
deprive Ireland of the benefit arising front the double duty din- venture to assert that he could close the wounds which had been
chorgett by the Clergyman, as a minister of religion, and as are. open and festering for ages? He did not speak this from a feeling
*Went of toe soil. As to the processions completined of, he of despondency or dispair, but to make gentlemen aware of the
was hostile to town At the commencement of the ses. evils they had to struggle with, and that they might not trifle
slots he gave a pledge of his sentiments upon the subject.— with the country by inefficient measure-. .1 plan had been proposed
The abandonment of all such processions was highly neon- by an Hun. Baronet on a former night, which met with his decided
wary. They had merely the effect of keeping up the system , appmbation. It was to encourage emigration on an extensive scale.
of outrage and riot, already too prevnle.d. (Here, after a con- IHe belieicd that it met the views of the natives, who wilier all
siderable pause, the Right Honourable Gentlenuu: said he had times lovers of oovehy. This feeling, although unfavourable to
lost the thread of his armament, and he would conclude b moving industry, was yet most favourable to the plan. If he knew any
what would,in his opinion, chiefly contribute to that which they thing of Irishmen, he knew their anxiety to visit other lands ; all
all had is view, the peace, tranquillity, and ['venters of Intuit. their feeling* dwelt upon, and all their talk wan
Ilia ameodinent would be for an inquiry, by a Select Committee, " Some :safer world in depths of 'roadie nbeaced,
into the disturbances tied the nature of then, which existed in the Some happier island in the watery waste."
districts at present under theoperation of the Insurrection Am.l He believed that in every wintry there were some •
Lord MILTON did not agree with the Honourable Member repositories of power, and in Ireland the Catholic Clergy was
who had just sat down. He was of opinion that benefit only could the most important one. lie thought that this body should be
;be obtaineil M. a general inquiry into the state of Ireland. The very much raised ; that they should enjoy • comfortable coin.
Honourable Member seemU to argue we if the Irish Governmens recency, and that such competency Mould be given them by Go.
was 4cnertally. good, but that there were some points of it vernment. The next grand repository of power was one which
deserving of inquiry, and some districts the state of which did not 'loges.. so much influence, but whose influence was on fly
ought to be invem The Honourable Member seemed to increase, he moult the Roman Catholic laity. Their progrese
have forgotten thatlis'er!'iyatem was the consequence of six cen. had bean moat rapid, for their very disabilities had toted oat
;tunes misgovernment. In his opinion no good would result from them as a stimulus to exertion. lie would refer Gentlemen on
a partial investigation, and inquiry should be made not alone into this point to the single profession of the law. Twenty yeses
• the state of the disturbed districts, or of those tinder the operation ago an Irish Roman Catholic Barrister was scareely known, het
of the insurrection act, nor of the revenue, inquiry should be made now there were numbers of them, of acknowledged abiliiies, sod
into the general state of the country, into the state of the various who possemed the confidence of the public. They were noon
classes of society, the relation thou dosses bore to each other, and tom and he was proud to say it, who were eminent tar the purity
above all, the relations of the venous sects; no good would result of their honour
and the integrity of their hem, purity
from partial considerations. Ile agreed with an Honourable Friend I were capable of filling any sititotion whatsoever. The in.
Iwho had said it was impossible to degrade a man a little, and be crease of this body of men was greatly clieckrti by a spirit
would maintain there was rot a man in Ireland. from the of indium mut mistrust; they were stow to give their con-
"highest and middle class to the humble labourer—to the ' tidence, and apt to take offence; and they often loved more to
tenant of the most wretched hovel, that did not consider I paten to a flatterer Mao afriend. He begged lie might not
the exclusion of the Catholic Peer front the House of Lords de- Ibe understood as casting reflections on his countrymen. He
graded himself. It was fair to suppose that Catholics were ex.: knew that this temper ass produced by an equally lamentable one
eluded from situations to which they were eligible. He thought on the other side. What was the state of society that produced
there was authority for the supposition in what bad fallen front this ? A state which left none untouched by its relaxing influence,
the member for l'ermanagh. lie declared Orangeman and Pro- ; and enabled the most contemptible person to involve a
ftestant were synouimous, and, he subjoined Mat Orangemen ; whole country in confusion. )
plop tl.e important question. as
I were united in their own defame. Wear, heor.) Here was ato the two parties into which the lemf ►lnland were Melded,
declaration from a Protestant landlord, who derived his re.:ts Iron lie would say a few words. He would yield to no men
a Catholic tenantry. (Hear, hear.) Here "is an assurance to the la the earnest wish for the abolition of alt party feeling; but when
House that Protestant landlords were united in associations against he was told that this was only to be done by putting down the
their own tenants. (I leaf., hear.) Is it p essible that a country in Orangemen by the strong arm of power, he would say that more
which such a state of things was tumid to exist could be.well pernicious advice could not be given to Government—it was as
governed ? Could such a state of things he upheld by law ? Could advice calculated to perpetuate discord, and to put a canker in every
that country be said to be well governed in which during the last two heart and a dagger in every har,d. Each would be looking for mine
• centuries and a half, the property had been repeatedly confiscated, act which might give one party the ascendancy over the other; and
and nine-tenths of the inhabitants were subjected to a disgroceful now theOrangetnan, and now the Ribbonman, would be waiting the
system of law, a remnant of wilich was retained to this cloy, for the day of vengeance. It was not a conciliatory but an impartial Go.
purpose of making five-sixths of the people slaves to an oligarchy vernment that he wished to see in Ireland, end such he believed the
'of tyrants ? (Hear.) It was not possible such a country could be present Government to be. lie hoped he might be forgiven if he
well governed; it was, in his opinion, wonderful that a people said a few worth relative to the Protestant Church of Ireland. He
; could be brought to submit to such a Government at all. There would not argue whether or not the Church ought to have been
were other speeches that night pregnant with reasons for an inquiry. established in Ireland ; such a question was not for the present
An Honourable !Geuther told them the object of the Ribbon- time; it was established, and it was only necessary to see what it is.
men was the separation of Ireland from England, and the mat- He had known well and had known long the Protestant clergy of
Iseers of the Protestants. Was not this sufficient to cause an Ireland, anti he knew no class of men who were so distinguished
inquiry to be entered into? Did not the declaration that there for worth, talents, virtues—lye, and liberality too. They might
was a Catholic association for the purpose of destroying one- look back without a blush on tie great predeemeorsahoin they
sixth of the population render investigation necessary? (Hear). have succeeded, and they might enter into rivalry with Usher.
These assertions hod been made, but lie did not believe they were Bedell, and Berkley. He was not sorry that the Archbishop of
true. He did not believe the case could be made out. He could Cashel pouched 10,0001. a-year ;he thought it might be expended
not bring himself to believe such to be the relative feeling of the with as much advantage to the country as the income of the Duke
Catholic to the Protestam. notwithstanding the long system of of Leinster, or any other Nobleman. lie would now allude to
misrule that had existed. With regard to the church establishment, 'be Orcumstano sunder which the Irish nobility and gentry were trm•
It was said the clergyman was in a double capacity, as a minister of often placed. They received their education at Eton and Oiford,
religion and a resident gentleman. He did not know how he could and after having made the tour of the Continent, returned to their
be considered as a resident gentleman ; he was the minister of a re. native country to take possession of the estates of their ancestors.
ligion nut believed in by the mnenenths of the population, and he Their first acts were to examine their leases, and to direct eject-
was employed in collecting tithes from the population. Under these mans, to form plans, to build, and to create a number of forty
circumstances the clergyman could not be couiparesi to the gentle. shilling freeholds. 11 hen they found that their speculations did
man to whom the land belongs, and who has an interest in the not turn out as well as they expected they generally left the coup.
welfare and prosperity of those around him. An inquiry, there. try which received them coolly, berinse they had no claim on ite
fore, on a narrow and limited scale, would produce no result. It Affection ; and they were seldom heard of except through the pub-
would be by this means that the ignorance so general here re. lie papers, when a debate arose its this House or the other, where
specting Ireland would be dispelled, anti, the conclusion would be, they were found indulging in reflections on the wreck 'of that
informatioo and knowledge would be soloed over England as to country. Ile did not draw this picture with a view to depreciate
the real situation of that country. Until this knowledge was are. his countrymen ; he knew that there many whose feelings were of
quired it was vain to expect that Ireland could be well governed. a very different nature. He now came to the question as to the
There was much ignorance in this country concerning Ire- propriety of institutieg a Commitee to inquire into the State of
land : this he inferred not only front certain opinions utter- the country. If the Noble Lord who proposed the meaeure, only
din that House, but he ascertained it also in private so. meant to ascertain the sentiments of the people, it was well; but if
ciety. 'There was much public delusion on the state of Ire. he contemplated any practical results of a betiefleial nature, he be.
I land. Ile did not believe there was • single country in the heved he was mistaken in his view of the subject. It was allege-
' %Vest of Europe, of which so little was known. This 'gnomes titer too extensive; and it should be considered how many chum
was not confined to the lowest and middling classes ' • it reached the of people he would have to consult; and bow were their sentiments
highest. Of this ignorance there could not be a greater to be ascertained? Not by domino:am nor by oral information,
proof, than the alarm evinced by English capitalists, as to which might be given to the Committer ; for the theme must come
reading their property into that couotry. For this alarm he home to every man's heart. Let the Noble Lord recollect foe a
thought there was nu ground ; but was it not absurd to moment what a variety of persons he would have to examine. He
suppose that capital should be sent to Colombia in prefer. would have to contend with the spirit of the rebellion of 1798 on the
euce to Ireland ? From the general state of Ireland, it one hand, and the spirit of fear on the other. And what would
was a common supposition, amongst the high as well as the low, the inquiry produce Nothing but what was already to be found in
that a state of disturbance was natural to an Irishman. This books on the subject. It would doubtless be an interesting Coto-
was far from being the case. Ile admitted it because second mince to be upon, but nothing more. He felt assured that the
nature to him—it was inflicted upon him by the English con. gate of Ireland was not a suhjrct fur a Committee but for the
nection, that began by conquering, and ended by 'sing Government; It could not be confined to me person or to
them. (Hear. hear.) Ile approved highly of the sentiments ut. another, but every man must be interested in it. As an
, toed by the Right lion. Gentleman respecting Lodges and Atom Irishman, he felt grateful to the Government for what had been
ciationo, and of his declaration, that it was the intention of Gm already done for ibis country, and grateful because it had not at.
vernment to recommend all parties to abstain from such proceed. tempted to do more. The greatest injury would be in fillies their
ings. Ile was confident such a suggestion from Government hands too much. In the case of tithes, a greater change had been
would be attended with the best effects Leon many persons ; as it effected than could have been cor.ceived. And, in alluding to the
happeneJ at this very moment that the individual holding the principles cf free trade, he would observe, that the prosperity that
office of Postmaster-General was the Grand Master of all the existed along the eastern coast of Ireland, mane him almost ice.
Orange Lodges. (Hear.) From what he knew of Postmasters, dined to renal the words he had toed in the early part of his speech.
from the observations he was in the habit of making upon that lie trusted that it would yet please Providence to open the hearts
animal, it WAS his opinion that it would not be very difficult for of the people of England to use a liberal policy towards Irishmen,
Government to have its suggestion attended to; and though perhaps that they might yet be what they had never been, ato peo-
aot very ;relatable to the Postmasteohe would find it necessary to fol. plc, and that the names which disgraced them, of Ribbonmen and
low it. This was a plan, usual, he believed, in En ''land ; and he Orangemen, would be forgotten. He did not, however, entertain
thought it might be as easily practised in Ireland. If the Govern. this hope, unless the efforts of England were seconded by those of
ment wished to rule Ireland as they ought, they must cease to be a the Irish Gentry. From them, and from therm only, a real and
Government of faction—they must cease to govern four-fifths of permanent good could proceed. He was about to give utterance to
die population by a fiction of one-fifth. To secure the loyalty
.of a sentiment which he feared might be considered Irish prejudice,
this part of the population, Government was compelled to practise If any institutions were reformed, he trusted that such reformation
all its arts—he did not mean sets of tyranny, but those arts, which might come from the Irish gentry themselves ;he dreaded its com.
he was sorry were not confined to Ireland—he meant the arts °lcor. ing front any other quarter. The Irish gentry only posecosed in.
ruption. Ireland could not be well-governed if halt' of the great men, formation relative to their country, and they would effect the end
either of this country or her own, were suffered to rule her. She without haste or intemperance. It was only from them that he an-
could not be governed by a faction marshalled agains. Ribbonmen ticipated any thing like reform in Ireland. Let them reform them.
or any other,: The error could not be all attributed to Government ; *elves. (A laugh.) If others attempt to probe the wounds. they
it could he traced in • great measure to the wealthy and powerful. will probe them too roughly. het the people of England inform
When he found a goveroutent bad, lie looked for the cause to the those of Ireland that if ther givenp their prejudices, England will
greet--he did not Wok for it amongst the poor: he did not attribute give up hers—and then, be trust there would be a new career of
the effects to weakness—he did to power. A remark of this kind was wisdom, happiness, and glory.
general ;it was not confined to Ireland alone. Our conduct at Sir J. NEWPORT said that, for one, he would deprecate
present was absurd and anomalous; we neither governed nor were any inquiry within the narrow limits prescribed by the Hon.
governed by the people. Upon former occasiors we were at least Gentleman (Mr. North.) If ever there war a period when a
consistent in our folly and oppression ; we are now weak, in govern. I proper inquiry could be made with safety into the affairs of Ire-
ing partly by conquest and partly by barbarizing. It was an argn. hand it was t present. If it were deferred the House would
meat used by those who opposed the Catholicclairns, that Bone be certain to lac an opportunity of doing much good, without
concession was granted another would be claimed. This argu. doing
r. an evil.
ment was at least consistent. There sas still a law in Ireland wh:ch STANLEY said that the Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr.
subjected a priest to a fine of 5001. if he married a Catholic Nmieth) had drawn a melancholy picture of the state of Ireland,
and a Protestant; so far the law was certain : he understood it ad. I whose miseries he had declared were not casual, but appeared to
mitted of argument if tie were not liable to the penalty of death. ;be inseparable froin the nation. Deeply as be regretted its truth,
If, therefore, this law was at all repealed, the repeal was owing to he did not regret the oratory of the lion. Gentleman, which, he
implication and construction. Could it be there was an end of conceived, proved more than any thing else could the deep recess
the Penal Code, when there was such a remnant of it in existence, aity for an inquiry into the cause of its evils. The only way in
and applied too to the most important part of the Irish population ? which he had eneleavoured to meet the question was, by contend.
They all knew the influence possessed by the Priest over his flock, leg that they were of too extensive a nature to be remedied; and
and he would not, in the present state of things, with it was Ili. he therefore proposed to leave Ireland to her solitary and unre.
minished. It should be the object of the English Government to graded misery. Mut he ( Mr. Stanley) would ask, if there were no
put down this influence, not by taking it away directly, but by en. good to be anticipated fro. the inquiry; what advantage could
lightening the body of the people. so that they should not be in. poosibly arise imam the tur.enelment ?
fluenced as they had been. Toe intluence should not be destroyed at Sir.!. SEBRIGHT made a few observations in support of the
once, lest it should prove not only not beneficial,' but positively motion.
injurious. As to a partial inquiry into the situation of Munster, Sir F. BURDETT was surprised at the manner in which this
as proposed by the Right Hum (sent. were there rot circumstances question was met by the lion. Gentleman opposite. An lion.
in Ulster and Connaught requiring int ehigation ? The stale of I 31ember (Mr. North) had made a very eloquent speech, though
the entire country should be made known to the people of England.; somewhat inconsistent, and it was one which ra'led forno answer,
Inquiry should not be node alone imo thei state of the Govern. because it was an answer to itself. It was ell antithesis--esch
aunt, es was proposed
.by the Secretary, but the relative situation member of each sentence contradicting the other. (Hear, heir )
of that Government with respect to all parts of the community The Hon. Member drew a learned and a heeling picture of the
should be considered. Ile wished to ionittre Mtn the state of the disasters of Ireland, calling upon the legislature to !robe that situ-
religious sects, and the feelings of claws to their supe- , wino, and shew the actual state of the country. We were to know this
tient. There was a Bill submiued to the House, and he was I subject, said the lion. Member, and yet we were to have no ioquiry.
proud to my, renoted, composting the nom of a embeds:4 No ! The state of Ireland was a dienrace to the House and the Govern.
member of the English Church would dare submit such a motion ; ment of this country. Inquiry must takb place; bat yet the
to the consideration of Parliament. ( Hear, hear.) I Learned Gentleman was fie an impotent measure, which, even
mt Hall rose lie agreed with the Noble lona olio had I his own speech, Mewed to be so. The amendment of the Irish
just sat down, in coon:lying that there was no duty more locum. Secretary was altogether no:awry. The insurrection Ac: was
bent on the government than to endeavoto to suermin the cause of talked of—that miserable palliative had rot succeeded ; but to that
the evils of Ireland. That country had proceeded from one atHic. I extent alone was inquiry to go. The Irish Secretary would only go :n
tion to another, and each season had brought with it a peculiar ' that miserable extent. and the Hon. and Learned Gent. (Mr. Noof.)
misery—the first was famine, the second fever, and the third' while eloquently inking
of Ireland's wrongs, filtrated all inquiry.
rapine and murder. If it were asked what were the causes of I Tyrants called submission peace, and the Learned Gentleman fon
thou lamentable circumstance*, every man's answer would be ; lowed their opinions. It was said the Catholic peasantry had no-
dictated by his own interests or feeling*. The landlord would thing to fear and nothing to hope—an exact definition of dement
attribute them to the tithes, and the clergy in return would and yet there was to be no inquiry. The statement of the Learned
lay them to the account of rents. He believed that nothing con. Gentleman would of itself be a ground for inquiry ; the miserable
cured more to their production than the want of suffieieut ern.. and unfortunate people of Ireland were allowed to be deprived of
ployment fur the people. This is with them a wart, and a want all inquiry, and yet it was said that their privations were to their
necessary to them as Men food; without which they must naturally advantage ! If this were so it would be a fair subject for inquiry
become uncivilized anduntamed; it is the prompter to hopeless indo . and consideration. If under such di-advantSges the Irish people
lenee'and desperate misdeeds. The Irish peasant was too frequently had so advanced, their condition was the mote untitled to Inca rv.
placed a; the bottom of the class of human beings ; he Neel none This called 'forth the moral question of Catholic emancipation
above him whom he can hope to overtake ; and he generally (hear, hear), and that question must be attended to. The Hon•
takes the alms which he receives, with as much independence Member (Mr. North) had a happy power at drawing pictures of
as he who gives them feels; he has but little hope of improving the most opposite tendency. He praised the Orangemen, alum
his condition, and as little tear of its becoming Wane ; he looks , ru'ml Ireland to her ruin; he praised the geritty, whom he said to
around hint, and beholds men ssho are sprung from another 'be Orangetnen • and yet he preised, souteMr or other, the Catho-
overlook anotherlitamsuseirtrOcies'vderrforontfdeeni
race, and who he conceive' are placed over hien with the law' lie people of that fine but unforturnte country. His violent !rho
and the sword to keep. him quiet and to keep him poor. He •as, however, almost equally balanced. The emit, of Ireland
ilanseeimentodsn.,tft:whrh,ereiihnlifyottrie,hee,aniif:neehi tpthiumnpeenishedvnaidutliaetarifoonr oift,tihmee larecweinLmdocaralthciodipabanbiliiaty
such
weal]
piniedicouiscrigaftaeilly
Itral!sede;ollaitlnd tihtewlainsucTrieeYii%cm.mAdeTfet
niscecoarted. Coold- bad measures promote gaol will ? The limo and learned tient.
praised a suggestion which he (Sink'. B.) threw out of colonization
martyr.excllen excellence follragthiletaristacor
verted into that of a murderer and incendiary. In stating the from Ireland. He (Sir F. Burdett did not mean emigration; co
the two grand evils—the place the Irish peasant holds in society, I man, unless blessed like an amiable Orangemen, would stop in teat
it--the examples leave it, with all their pommy and all their industry. Th •
and the wait of employment, it was necessary that he should not I country. AU men of etas:mein wou'd leave Ireland, and d d
generation, and awn:ll:ern govirelanetntueiltdofibtehisstaTatgintry ignetilunurieenrameet,ionasoftowitabga not COUTS^e to effect anything r
constitution of this House would nut
gewlithothwit forboneentotni:
endless, turbulent, and barren succession. The country had beset allow them to do so. Peace or war, they could not meet the
enveerol