The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1825-04-30 00:00:00

atone Clergy were more powerful than line other religions body—
,
and therefore ought to be put in an aineable relation •ith the
State; and the next was., that the people of Ireland wire too pox
to support the Church. There was no measure more urgent upon
the poor man than that of his being obliged to slippnrt the Clergy.
While it was the principle of some to here no religion rather then
hfrom him
rethliagtio relust ion
obwri.
a Henc et knewaltoece
the Catholic religion, his principle was to honour tee form of
worship and their mode of faith, which he did not respect, beeauee
it was Catholic, but because it was Christian. He would hare also
that education afforded to the poor man by which he might arrive at
tttv poor owledpegmeen which
welhio wouldwere ktp et
that because they had no means of paying the stipends of the ('large'
was the pernicious tendency of the present intern on the psi
aknees
laaman. With regard to the conduct of the Catholic Clergy_,„,
the first place they were powerful, and he therefore wished them tre
he connected with the State. But let it net be thought that he
wished them to be dependent upon the State. Far fromit ; fur he
wail sure that if the patronage of the Catholic Clergy were in the
hands of the Government, it would make them too strong, me tee
Catholic Clergy in Ireland too weak. But he did- wish thi,
Catholics to be placed upon such a footing with the eta%
a would make them lock to the laws of the country ate he
institutions with respect, and to the Parliament as Mei:
best and wisest guardian. If Hon. Gentlemen were to look flack
td the periods of the insurrections in Ireland, they would gee that
the efforts of the Roman Catholic Clergy bad been at all timee
and under every peril, exerted to check and put down the spirit of
Insurrection. In the disturbances which occurred in the y
eah
1782 and 1783, and also in 1786, ',amoral lettere were sent forth by
the Clergy, which had the best effe.-ts in suppressing the tent:mine
and recalling them to their duty ; and for which conduct on the
part of the Clergy a vote of thanks was passed to them by the
Government. He would ask any Gentlemen who were at all
nected with Ireland, whether they had not been actively mash!
under every circumstance of danger by the Catholic Clergy ?
yy
own relation, the late Judge Day, being asked by a Committee
whether he was intimate with the Catholic Clergy, and could speak
to their conduct, replied, that he was acquainted with the RAT. Xi,
Naylor, who was a Magistrate and a Parish Priest, and he retreat,
bored his assisting to repel an insurrection at the hazard orbit
life; "so much so," said the Judge, "that I thought it incumbent
on ins to thank that excellent Magistrate from the Bench for what
he had done." There was also another Catholic Magistrate who
was spoken of as having acted under similar eircumataeces, la his
(Mr. S. R ice's) own county there was a 31r. 111 who inter.
posed most efficiently in the same excellent manner, and hie life
was lost in consequence of his laudable exertions. He keen another
Priest, who from his altar announced to the people, that it they did
not take steps to restrain the spirit that prevailed amongst them be
would read their names aloud on the ensuing Sunday. The coa.
sequence was, that that Gentleman's life was in danger. Refer;
therefore, Honourable Gentlemen thought unfavourably
of the
Catholic Clergy, he would recommend them to look at the nidtere
to which he had referred. The reason why he noir pressed this
question forward was, because we had not a moment to low—be.
cause, from circumstances which it would be improper for him to
allude to more particularly, oat an hour's delay ought to be seliered
either for carrying this or any other measure of relief to the Ronan
Catholics of Ireland through the House. Let not the details alibi
measure deter them from proceeding. Was the principle of it a
right one ? If it was, he called upon the House of Commons to
adopt it now, and hear the details thereafter. The argument of
economy was not a good one. He was sure the people of England
would not object to the sum proposed to be granted, when they felt
how great was the thing to be accomplished by it. The mans thee.
winos that had already been expended upon Ireland, some for bed
purposes, and others for doubtful ones, would, if they bad been
directed to the end now proposed, have rendered a most lasting
service to that country. With regard to the abjection that by this
measure we should have no influence over the regular efeey,
it should be recollected that the regular clergy were ender
the influence of the Catholic Bishops, and that tee Bill to be
founded on the Resolution before the House would bring those
Bishops in connexion with the Government, aid therefore
we should be connected with the regular Clergy. In concha.
"ion the Honourable Gentleman protested that be mid not have
done whatever be might have been instrumental in accomplishing
as a Magistrate, had it not been fit the aissistance of the Catholic
Clergy, and therefore he felt bound both as a Gentleman and as a
di ember of the House of Commons, to declare his high opinion of
that body and of their desert to the provision intended tor them
by the Bill to be introduced, and to which he should give his most
hearty support.
Mr. GOCLBURN said it was not his intention to follow the
Honourable Gentleman through all the topics which had been al.
luded to by him, nor to advert to the question with any view to the
expense that it would occasion the country : but although he would
not make it a question of economy, yet he must be convince Mho the
object for which we provided any sum was a good Um, before he
could consent to its being granted. He however opposed the mea-
sure on different grounds—he opposed it because it was premature,
end because the House was without the requisite information. He
opposed it beuse he saw in it much that was calculated to deceive
the Catholics themselves. The Resolution on the table was much
too general in its terms It stated that there was a necessity for
providing for the Catholic Clergy. This, he contended, was stated.
without full information, and was calculated to impose upon the
minds of the clergy, whose interests it professed to consult.
He saw in the measure before the House everything that Leaded to
produce future dissatisfaction and disturbance in Ireland. If the
(louse were prepared to come to • decision upon it, to my slut
should be paid to the Irish Roman Catholic clergy, and time to Li:-
mend a security for their loyalty and good conduct, the only way
would be to lay down, in the first instance, precisely what the Pa.
!lament would give and what it would expect. 7 n do otherwise
would be hereafter to dissatisfy the whole Roman Catholic holy.
An Hon. Gentleman (Mr. S. Rice) had called upon the House to
take the Mgison Donsim as its precedent; but the course adopted
in that case was very different to that which it would be nee-every
to adapt in the present, The Government which granted that
Region% Potions to the Presbyterians were guaranteed the loyelty
of those people before it watt granted. It was also important for
the House to consider the number of the regular clergy, and the
relation in which they were held by the Roman Catholics, end then
to consider the effects of this measure as it would affect than. lie
knew that in proportion as benefits were conferred, the cotfidn et
of the people in their priests became Insetted ; indeed, it was so
common thing for a priest who was more than usually liberal, to
be distinguished by the epithet " Protestant Priest." How much
more then would this feeling operate if their PrifFt% were to noun
pay frmil the Protestant Government of the country ? At present
the regular clergy stood much higher in rank and in character than
the secular clergy stood, and they possessed a far greater influence
over the Roman Catholic people. The Honourable Members who
advocated this measure had taken care to keep the dissenting clone
out of view, but he contended that if the measure were vaunt there
could not be a single reason for refusing to the dissenting clergy the
benefits the Roman Catholic Clergy would then enjoy. An Hear.
Gentleman near him (Mr. Wynn) had said that he did not wish ei
extend the principle to the dissenters, because there was no danger
to be apprehended from them, but he would extend it to the Ca-
tholics, because front them he did apprehend danger. He notelet
the House to consider to what such an argument would lead. It
was, in fact, nothing more than to say to the dissenters, " stake
yourselves obnoxious, and mischievous, and dangerous, and yen
will then have a claim fur the advantages which we give to teen
who are considered as suspicions and alarming." If such se sga-
ment were correct, in his °pit iin it was strongly in reliant of gr•
ing this grant to the llissentra:as well as to the Catholics, 'its
question then, if such were the case, was not whether we should ex.
pend a sum of 25,0001. annually, but whether the sum should rot
be far greater, as all classes of dissenters would have as equal
claim on our liberality. He would conclude his observations by
declaring that he objected to the proposed tonsure because it
would be arming the religion of the multitude against fee
religion of the State ; he objected to it becau fse o the rant
of information on the subject ; he objected to it because it re.
ferred to a class of clergy who were not NO nearly connected with
the State as those who were excluded from the plan ; and he ob-
jected to it because it held out an expectation that the House
would grant a measure which he did not conceive the House gm.
pared to grant.
Mr. CAL :RAFT raid, that it Wan somewhat singular that tee
two Right Honourable Gentlemen ( Alr. Goulborn and Mr. Peel)
who bad had the best opportunities of ob.aining information, were
always complaining that they had not sufficient, and were always
for more. If there were one man charged more thin
another with ignorance as to the affairs of Ireland, it was the
Right Honourable Gentleman who filled the office of Sarno? et
State for that country, and his ignorance on that subject bad been
recently proved by his being left in a minority on a motion It bad
brought forward with respect to it. The amount of the sum re-
quitad by this measure was, in his (Mr. Calerall'e) opinion °
matter worth very little consideration indeed. The reason trey •
larger sum was required for the Catholic Priests than for the Pres-
byterian Clergy was, that the former were so much more nuteerces
than the latter, who were sufficiently paid by '21.e00!. can
annum. If ever there were a sum to be applied in an emceed.
cal manner, he was convinced it was t IS sir,„ and that before fin
years were expired, this country would receive tenlidd fie the morey
it had laid out. But when the happiness of a people were con::
night betaken
dered, it would be trifling to talk of the sum by which that nee
nese ass secured. The requisite sum, however,.
from the many useless grants to Ireland, and be applied in this ee
airable manner. He was convinced that it would be the sees"
bond of tranquillity in Ireland. All great authorities had Icrl
looked upon such a measure as the grand drsieferatnm with rerge g
to that country, and lie believed that if it had been formerly con-
sidered in connection with the Catholic Question, many of these
e ie
who had been adverse to that question would have bee fooonb
to it. But the Catholics had formerly said, '• we will not take it.
they are now satisfied to take it. add he was sure that the
would be so convinced of its utility, as at least to make an ofee °'
this grant to the Irish Roman Catholic Church. He would there.
fore give the measure his most hearty concurrence.
CREE VEY observe], that ae far as it related loth rim'
a sum of money for the maintenance of the Irish priestboodenj
was perfectly satisfied with the measure; but if it were intenet;
that the Roman Catholic priests of Ireland should be suppotted
the Protestants of England, he would most decidedly eprcoe_',
lie would say that the Catholic priests of Ireland ought Ptobe .'
did 0,4
out of the Church Establishment of that country, and he_it ,
know why that Church should he made the subject of pol IT;
Patronage when the Roman Catholic clergy were starfige
would never vote that the requisite sum should be paid. 1""?
'stablubtnen•
other way than out of the profits of this ('birch L
Ott the general grounds of the mee-iire he agreed with the..,7;7_
Lord is proposed
who had pposed it, but on this principle he wee hare '"
°
conscience to dissent from him and oilier of his lion.
on
31r. BROUGHAM raid, that after the observations e
twtai
en °
subject which had been previously ade—eefter so much e