The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1821-06-01 00:00:00

two Secretaries who eat in Parliament.

no doubt, wefts& and intelligent men, Tint be
could ems help remarking how directly contrary
this was So the moult@ of Aisne. The neat of-
fice was that of the Foreign Secretary, so ably
filled by the Noble Marquis oppomte.—There
could be no doubt of the necessity there was
for the presence of the Noble Lord ; and if
his office were to be held by • Peer, he would
have a right to have his Under-Secretary present,
as the Colonial and Hume Secretaries had at
present. He would allow also the Secretaries for
Ireland to remain. But there was the ViceoTrea-
surer also; he could see no reason why they were
favoured with his company. It was directly
in the teeth of the spirit of the Act of Queen
Anne. He was in the minority with Mr. Pun-
sonby, who proposed a reduction in the pay of
this office. Mr. Ponsonby objected to the office
altogether, and thought he was very liberal in pro-
posing to leave it with • salary of 2,0001. Guveru-
ment with a sweep of the hand, by which at that
time they disposed of money, decided, that 3,5001.
was the right salary for the office. The division
was one hundred nu one side, and ninety-eight on
the other. No less than forty-two placemen voted
to make up the majority of two. The next office
we• the hullo Board, which consisted of four
_members; he would leave the President, and turn out •
the other three members► His reliant) was Oust they
were of no manner of use there, nor, as he believed,
elsewhere. He did not know anyone who could say if
there was such a Board. The name of India was
forgotten ainoug them ; they knew no more of the
affairs of India in that House than of the planet
Jupiter. India had ant been mentioned among
them since 1913. Sink or 'aim, whatever the
state of the people or of the et 00000 try. they were
never subjects of inquiry in that House. His Hon.
Friend had endeavoured to call the attention of the
House to one subject connected with India, and a
vote of thanks had been tressed for the Marquis of
Hastings. Beyond ties India had not been men-
tinned. In 1784, Mr. Pitt contrived to defeat the
Inds Bill, and brought in another measure just
afterwards. In a flourishing manner (of which
manlier he was a great master) lie described his
measure as one which would put the country
to no expense ; that a compuoy of indepen.
dent Gentlemen, all of them great personages,
who were above receiving any remuneration,
were to constitute an India Board. Their suc-
cessors, however, disliked these conditions. In
1794, Lord Melville brought in a Bill, which
gave the Members of the India Board various
salaries, that of the President being 2,000/.
and allowed them all teats is Parliament; doing
much► by this to swell the ministerial majorities,
but nothing at all fur India. Was not this from
first to last an infraction of the Act of Q.iera
Anne, to bring men into Parliament who bad no-
thing to do but vote? He cane next to the Ad.
mirolty : there were five Lords, alt sitting in Par.
liameut, each receiving a salary of 1,000/. ; their
Secretaries had sat there, urn that there was 111
chance of hiving seven members of that Board
in the House. Why, what had they to do there ?
They voted, that was well known, mid in the
passing of the Navy Estimates they must have
been found extremely useful. But there was the
Noble Secretary of State, by himself alone had
he fought the most stoutly.contested estimates
which had ever been agreed to. Why was the
Admiralty to have seven representatives and the
office of the Foreign Secretary only one ? Ile did
not deny that they might b• very good men in
their offices, but they were hail members of Parlia-
ment, because they held living of the King. The
Treasurer of the Navy was a useful officer: hr
and two Lords of the Admiralty should etay.—
He would 1160 keep in the Secretary and Comp-
troller the rest should depart. He Caine next
to the Ordnance. There were six from that
department. Ile proposed to leave two, allow-
ing Government to chno-e them. The Secretary
at War of course should remain I lie might be held
out as a pattern to the oilier departments. The
Judge Advocate, the Paymaster of the Forces, the
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, to these
officers remai ll oo there could he no objection. He
would continue the Vice-President of the Board of
Trade. He was unable to say why the Master of
the Mint was there ; it was still more strange that
this office should have been raised to a Cabinet
seat. He did not wish to lose the Right Hon.
Gentleman out of the House, but he saw no res.
.011 for letting hitn stay, or for keeping the
other officers of the Mint out if he were to re-
main. He recollected, indeed, that Mr. Perces
val held two offizes in the Mint—he was Surveyor
of Melting' sod Clerk of the Irons. It was, how-
ever, as reasonable to allow a Commissioner Of
Bankrupt a seat as the Muster of the Mint. There
was no reason for two Commissioners of Woods and
Forests being present. He was at a loss to know
why any of the Household were to sit there. He
would allow uric to attend from the Lord Steward
to communicate between the Sovereign and the
House—he might be either the Comptroller or
the Treasurer. There were two Lords of the
Bedchamber present; he found fault with this;
it was new in the constitution of Parliament,
though not without precedent. There was no
reason why the whole twelve should not be there
as well as two. They were objectionable, because
they held livery of the King. In the House they
merely added weight to one of the scales of Justice
and not the Constitution ; they were prepared to vote
for any measure of any Government ; they furnished
no species of information ; they belonged not to
the House. He came next to the law-officers.—
He would not object to the presence of the Attor-
ney-General, though it had been objected to for.
merly. But he would remove the Judge of the
High Court of Admiralty. the Judge of the
Arches Court, the Lord Advocate of Scotland.
the Chief Justice of Chester. He should
always contend it was unfit that • person dis-
charging the duties of a Judge in the country
should till a pole ical situation in Parliament. The
Judges of the land should remain unbiassed rind
removed from the heat of political squabbles.—
/ Hear.. Irenr.p.-The next office was that of Master
in Chancery ; stud as the Irish Masters of Chancery
had been already excluded, he saw no reason why
the same law should not extend to the English
Masters. They were servants of she House of
Lords, they sat in the House of Commons, to the
prejudice of their suitors, and should nut be allowed

I.

Itesit theta. to 1806 there 'Was a twostlll-advised
'measure introduced to Perlianteitt, allowing them
1,500/. a year peosioa when they retired, and
4,0001. • year gallery. He did not know Utak
Government could confer a better rewirel 'cm thei'
adherents, or hold out a !stronger temptation .to
their opponents. There were fifty-one places irws.j
movable at pleasure) twenty-enhe of wtiosio he
should wish to tune out. They were, in fekt, dead
voles to support any Minister, or any measure;
sod they had recent experience brew • devietnin
from the most sabusitisive obedience was rewarded,
They had seen that boldly declaring a man's.
opinion on a greet mitionaPqaestion was considered
• sufficient ground with the present Administration
to remove One individual. Heseilluded to Lord
Fife, although they had sufficieut information in-
,dependent of that instance.—(Hear, hear.)—
Having entered this fat into particularr. he should
now wish to call the attention of the House to some
general conclastous. It appeared to him that the
safest course to pursue was that to which our an-
cestors had studiously adhered. Whenever they
discovered an abuse, they provided a remedy ; they
infused new life and blood, and a vivifying refresh-
ing principle into the constitution. They were al-
ways anxious to Jeannie') the power of the Crown,
which fur the last half century has been gaining
groused against the liberties_ of the people. The
power of the Crown was iiumurtal, almost eternal,
" it had increased. was increasing, and should be
diminished." The elecessity of its diminution was
apparent Collie meanest understandiog. He should
read to the House the language of a protest entered
upon the Journals of the House of Lords in 1730,
we the rejection ref the Pension Bill ; it was
al-
most prophetic of the present times. The Ho-
nourable Gentleman then read a passage from the
protest, which stated, " That they objected to the
rejective° of the Bill, because all influence exer-
cised in either House of Perliainent, except whet
tended to she benefit of the King seed the Comte-
tuna'. was improper. Aced if ever a time should
arrive when a corrupt Minister should have the
distribution of rewards and pensions, he may de-
prive a worthy and generous Prince of the 'newer of
kilowing the feelings of his people, and in dim man-
ner alight be culled on to approve measures which
the whole nausea disliked." IVhellier such a time
had now arrived, he should leave to the House to
decide. He looked upon the present question as one
of vital importance, it was the drat deli which the
Parliament should take to bond the prelate to it.
He was persuaded unless the House reformed itself
within, by castiug from its bosom theoe unenumeuis
of their shame, which the Parliament in the time
of King William declined a scandal, it would love
the affections and regard of the people. In the
limes in which we live it was the ditty of the Peer-
lament to keep the country clear of the difficulties
to which it was liable, even tinder the best ad-
ministered Government. But if they writ de-
ter 000 o ied to treat the prayers of the people with con-
tempt, instead of adopting measures of conciliation,
all that he and such persons as himself, who had
exerted themselves during their short political life
could say, woo, that at latest they had the sslisfac-
lion of -baying done thee, slaty; out, let the conse-
quences fell ou the heads of those who had plieug-
ed the country into the slate it is at ',rearm.—
Hear, hear.)—He had to thank the House for the
indulgence they had sliewn him, and should con-
clude he 'nosing—
" For have to twist is a Rill for bettor securing the In-
dependence of Parliatieul."—( finsei cheers.)
Mr. FREDERICK ItoutNsosi vital, that Ili. Hon.
Friend (Mr. Brimett) had expressed himself with
temper and moderation, which in any thing that
fell from him he should endeavour to imitate. He
was aware that the person who objected in these
times to a measure introduced under the plausible
appearance of securing the independence of Per-
!tinniest, ran the risk of encountering conoiderable
unpopulartiy ; but it would be ace unbecoming
feeling In any one to be deterred by such a motive
from boldly expressinier' his opinions.—(Hear, hear )
—His Hon. Friend had, front the manner he stated
the question, saved him the tumble of going at
Length into it—for he admitted that it would be
unwise to exclude all plaeemen. The question of
principle these was removed, and they only now dif-
fered as to degree. The question for the House to
decide was, whether its present situation was snub
as to require the interference of Parliament ? lies
Hoe. Friend had stated, and stated truly, that it
was the custom and 'evacuee of our ancestors to
check the inereising power of tier Crown. No
man was more disposed than he was to view their
proceedings with respect—he felt persuaded that
they were founded on the soundest principles—but
he would go further than his Hun. Friend, and
say, that else) did soot curry their restrictions suffi-
ciently far. In thee time of Sir Robert Walpole
there were 200 persons in that House who held
places and pensions; and with all the vetieration
which he (Mr. Robinson) eutertamed for a Whig
Administration, he must say that was a proportion
quite preposterous. puring the erliteinisiralien of
Lord North, when the Parliament sits smaller
than at present (the Union not leaving been • ffect-
ed), there were 118 placemen in the House. lie fact.
at no one period was the cumber so small as at the
present day—( Hear, -hear, frost the diltaisterial
Beaches)--end the quoition for the House to de-
cide was, whether the influence of the Crown was
DOW so great as to require the interference of Par-
liament to diminish it If his Hon. Friend were
to push his principle to ita full extent, it would de-
prive the Ministers of the means of carrying on the
government. lle evis one of those who thought a
collision of parties necessary to the conducting of
the *trans of Government—lint that opposition which
*rose from petty personal motives, but that sound
constitiition•l opposition which lie was sore did exist,
and which arose from honest, honourable, and pa-
triotic principles.—l tee 00000 reties' between
the House and the Government was indispensably
necessary to menage its affairs, and it' that were re-
moved. the Guyer 1111 l riot would he compelled to
etwort to measures much more dangerous, front
winch neither they suer the House could derive
is!netit. Ills Hon. Friend had stated, thst tie,
OMO. of Cos 1111 l ons 4:phasic:led liself lie a manner
deserving reprohin 1111 l ; and claimed enroll to him-
self for seeing uteri iu COnerfl With the a 'vibes of the
people them ihose who supported the Administra-
time ; aloe claimed merit to liiiceself fur a con-
scientious opposition to lice Ingiolinfe•OfGovrrilinetit.
He knew lea Hun. neves' too well nut to give hint

full credit for his intentions, but he hoped he
would allow him (Mr. Robinson) some, strtall credit
foe purity of intentions.-4" Hear, frOke
both sides.)—it was going 'toollsr to stogniatize the
Government as insensible to the feelings of the
people ; there never was a period when the opi.
titotio of the pcople were so powerful in Parliament
as atineseist, and be was not sorry that It was so ;
he respected the opinions of the people, and, in his
humble sphere, he hail always consulted their lute-
iests. But if the Administratioo had not firmness
enough to look to the right and the wrong side
'of a question, without being swayed by every
breeze of popular opinion, it would be quite im-
possible to conduct the 'disks of government. Let
it not be supposed by this, that he thought
lightly of popilar opinion : as he said before, lie
respected the opinion of the people, mud was con-
vinced that when 'once firmly fixed in any country
no pOwer could restrain its operation.—(lleue, hear.)
He was aware of the odium sod intoutatious to
which the House of Commons would subject them-
selkes by rejecting the present motion, but lie was
sure they would nut 'suffer any calumnies to drive
them into the adoption of measures that went t 6
destroy that just, and reasonable, and natural in-
fluence, winch all Stateimen iind all Philosophers
had agreed was essentiully necessary to the govern-
merit of a country.—(Hear, kear.)

Colonel DAVIE'S suppolted the motion. He
thought that no man could litre the hardihood
to say the influenee of plocemen and pen-
sioners was not Kreater at thin thin at any former
peotorl. But he thought that the perevnis inte-
rested in the motion o'f his flour. Friend should
at least decline voting. The Noble Margnis (Lon-
donderrv) and the other Right Hon. Gentlemen,
who *vie exempted from irs provitiodv, should of
course vote; hut lie thought that delicacy should
induce these Gentlemen who were arraigned to de-
cline interfering. The' ustom in thai House was,
when a person was accused, he got up and mode
his defence, and then retired. It appesied front
the third Report of the Finance Cr/ 11111 l liter, that
exclusive of the half-pay, widows' pensions, &c.
there was granted in penlions arid superannuittions,
in Great Britain and Ireland, no lest, a sum than
200.3971., which had since increased to 496,2971.
lie implored the !loose, if they had city regard
for the prayer* *ll4l entreaties of the people, if they
were really the guardians of the Mettles df the
people, and the faithful oboe, errs 'oldie increasing
power of the Crown, to adopt that Morhrliate, whole-
some, cud Cosistitionol mode of reform.—(Near.)
The House then divided. The numbers were
Folr the Motion. —
Aphis' it

Majority with the Meister • 14
On our re-admibsiasi to the g•allrry, we Gland
Mr. FREDBMIC. RoBINSoN on his leg.. He
moved for leave to bring in a Bill to repeal part or
the Acts concerning Nosey old stores. and aubsticut.
iog other provision. in lieu thereof.—Leave was
given.