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London, England, 1804-06-07 00:00:00

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IMPERIAL PARAAMENT.

-e

HOUSE OF LORDS—W4DNIioAv, Jrl4l, 6.

In a Committee of Prlvilc es, evidence was re.
ceived for the claim of the Roos peerage. 'fhe
further proceedings were adjourned u, 'uesday next.
Al bEsßußv ELrerfoN
The Order of the Day, for the s, tond i:adiag of
this"';i, being moved by Lc,rd Gil :.NVILL Ej
The LORD cHAN(., rias ing left the
woolsack, said, he begged tu have it mid: i stood,
that it was his as an individ of
the House, that the Bill should he I.roceeckd in no
further. As the Motibn, however, that would tol.
low the reading of the order of the Jay would bt,
that Counsel be heard against the Bill ; he should
nut oppose that, but content himself with opposing
any subsequent proceeding on it.
The Order of the Day was then read and on
the motion of Lord Gassv ti.e„, Counsel was
called in.
Lord AUCKLAND then made some observa-
tions on the point of order, which we could not dis-
tinaly hear; but, we understood, that he insisted
on hearing Counsel and evidence in lichalf of theßill.
The Counsel were then ordered to withdraw,
which being done;
The LORD CLI A NCEL LOR said, it was a pro-
ceeding very strange in its nature, to hear Counsel
to induce their Lordships to pass the 6.11. Ile
wished, for his part, that this Bill should proceed
no further; but if Counsel were called is, it
would be well for their Lordships to ad-
vert to what was stated in the two .petitinns
for the Bill ; and then to consider what evidence
they would rece:ve or rejed. He hoped their
Lordships would not pass a Bill thus violating
th.. constitution. It was well known that the Com-
mons, whatever faults there might be iu inntie
of bringing them together, formed a body as per-
feetly adapted to their import sot use in the state, as
could be devised by 'iiim in wisdom. Ni. nation
edjoyed the like. No nation had ever eilic.eed such
a legree of in.tividual happntess, of ind:vidsal
li-
be:ty and security, of civil and politic libert,,. Oa
such a constitution, he would cr J no exporiment.
The rct dies provided were on. It is use of
the excellencies of the constitution, that it is a con-
stitution formed for human wuakaess. calculated to
maintain man in the exercise of all the virtue of
which his nature is ; but demanding no
more than his powers can accomplish, Dating
twenty years, he had supported this happy constitu-
tion against all innovation and reform. Ea would
do so now. He would resist this innovation. No-
thing should induce him to consent to the principle
of this Bill. He therefore moved, that the order ter
hearing Counsel be discharged, with a view to pro-
ceed no further in the Bill.
Eatl GROSVKNOft defended the principle of

• •
the BilL He said, such examples would tend to
prevent bribery in elelions. In the boroughs of
Shoreham arid Cricklade (instances of a soniiar
measure), he believed the elators themselves woulei
be found to rejoice in the salutary reform.
Lord GRE VILLE said, the subjea divided it-
self into two poles—that of order, and the policy
of proceeding further with this Bill. In the case of
Shoreham, Counsel was heard for the Bill. But if
counsel were not heard, nor evidence read, at their
Lordships bar, in th s cave, be maintained that the
evidence before the Committee of the other House
was evidence for their Lordships, That was deli.
vered on oath, before a sworn court. And on that
their Lordships might proceed, if his Noble and
Lttatned Friend's motion should be carried ; and he
should propose that course. But he thought Counsel
might to be heard, and evidence received on behalf
of those who, having an interest in the subjeft, prayed
for the passing of the Bill. Why was it to be taken
for granted, that the petitioners would make that an
excuse, to gain some acted tage in AStions com-
menced against them fur br bery ? His Noble and
Learned Friend had declared himself an enemy of
all reform; and stat^d that, slu• ing twenty years, he
had opposed all reform, He did not tuink his
Noble Friend did himself ja.tice. Ile remembered
to have had his co•operat on in many reforms, to
which be believed the country now owed its safety.
He therefore besought the Learned and Noble Lord
to be consistent (since he resolved so strenuously an
consistency) with his condua for so many years.
rather than with some notion of consistency, he had
suddenly t licen up. For his part, h.: had ever
(even before he c one into Parliament) been the
enemy of a general speculative r-farm, '.cause of
its infinite mischiefs. But one of the best reasons
he had ever heard against that species of reform, as
applied to this country, was, that our constitution
included in itself a living principle of reform, which
corrects evils, as they gross up, and thus keeps the
system in all its pristine beauty and rigour. It was
the application o^ this system, which is the measure
of the present Bill ; and on this ground he shcu!d
give it his entire support. The argument rai.ed by
his Noble Friend, is more fatal to the true repute-
of the Cons itution, than could be devised by
its most malicious and most ingenious enemy. He
says, " No evil, however greet and acknowledged,
shall bring me to consent to reform; the vet y mag-
nitude of the evil drives me further from all idea of
alteration; and this is the Constitution I admire "
Could the advocates for a general speculative re-
form wish for a more foreibTe argument than this,
grounded, a. it is, on the necessity of reforming the
whole system, which proceeds on that prMetple I
He revered the Constitution as much as his Nob's.
Friend; but it was a Constitution including,
and not prohibiting the means of its own existence.
It was by occasit a d improvements of this kind,
adopted year after year. mat the Constitution of
this country had been preserved and maintained so
long t and there was no part of the Constitution
which it was more nccessAr y to keep pure and entire,
than that which regarded car representation of the
; eople in Parliament. He ha,' ever ,wen in enemy
to what had been generally called a Pailiamentary

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