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London, England, 1825-04-23 00:00:00

THE BRITISH PRESS.

Committee. His Constituents represented themselves to him as
suffering great grievances horn the present Butter Act, A letter
he held in his hand described the butter marker as a person almost
constantly open to bribery, or subject to drunkenness. In another
letter a person was directed to give five guineas to a butter taster's
wife, and desired not to buy any kind of butter but seconds, be-
cause he intended to alter the brands for exportation. Such thing~
as these called loudly for Parliamentary inquiry and when lie
considered that the great examination into the affairs of Ireland
had been commenced an late as May last year, he could not agree
with the Right Hon. Member for Waterford that the 22d of April
WWI too late for the commencement of this investigation.
Mr. C. GRANT said the opposing parties had repeatedly ap.
plied to the Board of Trade, and he believed they had made out
sonic abuses, but he thought the Government could not adopt any
measure without examination in a Colllll3ltlte. They were, how-
ever, perfectly ready to grant one, if it wax desired.
The petition was then ordered to be printed.
IRISH BANKS.
- - - - - -

Mr. S. RICE presented a petition front Limerick in favour of
the Bill for regulating Banks.—Laid upon the table.
CORN LAWS.
Mr. MA NSFIELD presented a petition from Leicester in fa-
vour of the alteration in the Corn Laws.—Lard on the table.
Mr. C. (MAST moved for a Copy of the Coro Returns, from
the 21st April, 1C24, to 21st April, lOU—Ordered.

COMBINATION LAWS.
Mr. MANSFIELD presented a petition from the Operative
Shipwrights on the River Thames, against any alteration of the
Combination Laws.
Mr. T. WILSON presented a similar petition from the Ship
Caulkers of London.
pISSENTERS' MARRIAGE ACT.

Mr. T. WILSON presented a petition from ..he London
Clergy, comprising Sirn College, against the Dissenters' Mt.r-
riage Att.—These petitions were laid on the table.

FREEHOLDERS' BILL,

-..._ .. _ ..
Mr. LITTLETON, in moving for leave to bring in this Bill,
said, his intention was that the discussion of its n.erits, and the di-
vision, if any should be thought necessary, might take place on the
second reading. It was of no consequence to him, whether the
merits of the Bill were entered into on the first or second reading,
but Isavin en given to understand that many Gentlemen who
Oro
etuselves unfavourably of the Bill were absent,
m an t no detailed explanation would take place on its
[mode ,' he would merely state now, and he was happy that
the Eton, amber ler Wareham had, by his question on a previous
occasion, even him an opportunity to do so, that it was not his In-
tention totUeddle with any franchise of the same nature as the ans.
freeholds of England, but that his measure solely applied to those
votes which were subject to registration. The amount at which the
qualification should be fixed was of course for the consideration and
decision of the House; but as it might be expected that he would
state what his opinions were upon the subject, he wauld mention
10/. as the sum he thought it most expedient to adopt. Another
point was, the time at which the present holding should terminate,
whether at the end of the term of registration, or of the lease. He
thought the end of the registration would be the time which would
prove most beneficial to the country. !loping that, after what he
had stated, Gentlemen would abstain from entering into any dis-
cussion without being in possession of the regulatiors of the Bill,
he would move for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the Elective
Franchise in Ireland.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, that if any Gentleman thought the
second reeding too late a stage for opposing the Bill, they might
elbow the Bill- to be brought in now and fix the discussion for the
fitst reading.
Mr. BANKES (of Corfe Castle) thought this was such an
alarming motion, and so pregnant with destructive consequences,
that he would take the very first opportunity to oppose it, and he
hoped that it would not be read a first time without taking the
sense of the House upon its merits. He would waive stating more
at present than that he thought the measure full of objectionable
regulations. and aneonstitutior al and arbitrary in its tendency.
Mr. GP.ATTAN entered his protest against being supposed to
give his consent to the principle of this alarming motion.
Mr. Sec. PEEL, acquiescing in the horderaction of this Bill,
begged to sae understood as not making any concession to the prin.
ciples which it involved. Some years ago the practice had been
touch mere strict than at present with regard to the debates upon
the admission of Bills or Notices; but now it was very common to
permit Bills to pass over until the second reading, and Fa the dis-
cussion for that stage. He begged, however, in acquiescing to the
introduction of the Bill, to be ureters sod distinctly as reserving his
opinion upon the subject of its merits, and nut to be supposed as
committing himself either to oppose or support it.
A great many Members here rose together, but
Mr. BROUGHA II first caught the Spcs.ker'a attention. He too
protested against being considered as pledged to any particular
course, by assenting to the introduction of the Bill.
Mr. CALCRAFT said, that if ever there was a Bill which
reel tired the most minute investigation, it was the one now about to
be introduced to the House. If many within the House tinder.
stood its objects, there were many without the House who did net
understand them at all, and he confessed he was himself in that
situation.
Sir T. LETHBRIDGE said, they were going to take away from
the poor Irish CathoLc something. touch more valuable than any
boom or advantage they could confer by what they called the Ca •
diorite Relief Bill. He. for his part, did not know how they were
to be relieved, for that House was about to deprive the poor pea-
santry of tile only means they patoessed to olesin kind treatment
frottetbelekodlwds ; and when he looked at this measure as part
1 of the Ca Relief Bill, he must say, that emancipation under
Idelt was anything but a favour. An Hon. Friend
of his (the *other for Armagh), whom he did nt..t row soe in his
i;triems thought, placed in a very awkward predicament
the of this Bill at present. That Honourable
seated, that lie would not vote for the Catholic
ikpas accompanied by two mensures, of which
is was one. *ow, if this Bill was brought in now, it might be
on
very probably thrown out in one of its stages, and the consequence
would be, that they would have the same Hon. Member voting
sgainst the third reading of the Catholic Bill, although he had voted
tor the second reading.
Mr. CA ',CRAFT rose to order. Ile thought it very unparlia-
mentary tsar the Hon. Baronet to allude to and argue upon words
spoken in a farmer debate ; and more par,lculArly, when the Hon.
Member who had used those expressions was Absent from the
House.

Sir 'l'. LETIIBRIDGE denied that he was out of order by ar.
going on the opinions of an absent Member against a motion now
before the House.

Mr. W. W. WYNN thought the Hon. Member for Ware-
ham was perfectly right. He never rememb -red an instance of an
lion. Member persisting in such a Course, and in the absence of the
.M ember who used the expressions.
Mr. Secretary PEEL explained. He thought It irregular to
allude to a declaration of a particular fact. in 'he absence of the
Member. who cannot explain, but not irregular to argue upon
opinions.
The SPEAKER said, that thus called upon to explain, he must
say that the matter did not depend upon the absence of the
speaker, because the House presumed that every Member was in
hie place. There was no doubt, however, that it was irregular to
refer to words spekeu in another debate, whether the Member
was present or absent. With respect to the subject-matter, great
latitude was allowed in all cases. He thought there could be
nothing worse than that the Speaker should be kept strictly on
the watch, to detect all disorders which might occur in the course
of a debate. These orders, which enable him to check proceed-
ingx which he might think disorderly, were no doubt very con.
ventent ; but he always took the hint from the House, when they
were of opinion lie should carry them into execution.
Sir T. LETHBRIDGE explained.
Dr. Pll ILLI MORE spoke in favour of the proposed Bill. end
said his Hon. Fr:end, Mr. Littleton, was disposed to give all the
information in his power.
S:r .1. NEWPORT was of opinion that the poor freeholders of
Ireland would give kiln as much credit for kindness of intention, as
the Hon. Baronet, with all his new-born zeal, would be able to
obtain frau them. He thought there was scone masquerade of ma-
nagement in the Hon. BareaLt's thus corning forward to defend the
poor freeholders' interests. and that he hoped by opposing one mea-
sure to defeat the other. If the freeholders could obtain such a con.
dition as would prevent them from being degraded almost into cattle
driven by a master, he thought it aould be a great iniprovenient of
their situation, and a lasting benefit to the country. (dear.)
Mr. WODEHODSE supported the Mill.
After a few words from Mr I'EEL,
Mr. LITTLETON begged the House either to allow him to
present the Bill, which he had now ready, or to give notice of a day
for that purpose.
Mr. BA KES again hoped an early day would be appointed for
the discussion.

Mr. C. 11. HUTCHINSON said, he hsd never supported
the Catholic Bill on any condition whatever, or upon any
Promise of security contained In any oilier Bill to accompany it.
fhe extent of the proposed measure would reach so far as to effect
not only the forty-shilling freeholders, but even registered free-
holds of ten, twenty, and even fifty pounds. He did not suppose
that such was the intention of the authors of this Bill ; but such, he
apprehended, would be the effect of it. As to the forty-shilling
freeholders, he had in his own instance experienced as much sup-
port, u much honourable and independent support too, from them,
as could be evinced by any class of men in society. Although he
was unwilling to accede a sweeping disqualifying clause for the dis-
franchisemem of anv of his countrymen, he would be glad to see
the right of voting limited to those who would make an indepen-
dent exercise of it.

Mr. S. RICE was unwilling to prolong the present discussion,
but he was desirous of information on two points. as to the effect of
the operation of the proposed Bill. First, whether it was intended
that it should be confined to counties where the evil which it was
proposed to remedy mostly prevailed ; and secondly, whether this
Bill was to be made conditional on
.the passing of the Roman
Catholic Relief Bill. If it were made dependent on the carrying
of that important meastue, he would be ready to give it every sup-
port in his power. The complains which sere made by some
persons in this House against the measure did not merit much at-
tention. When it was considered ti ut although the plan had been
contemplated for more than one year, yet there was not a single
complaint made against it by those who were to be affected by it.
The Honourable Member for Corte Castle (Mr. Banke,) had op.
reed it, on • the ground of its infringemeut on popular rights.
fhls was not language which he was quite prep :ref to expect front
that Honourable Menit • Another honourable heatleman, the
lionottrable,Baronet who represented the county of Somerset, ob-
jected to the Bill, from his great affection and attach-vent to the
rights of the Roman Catholics of Ireland. Ile would only further
remark, that oppositioa to the Bill came front quarters whence it

was lea•a to be expected, and from quarters not entitled to the
greatest confidence and respect in matters relating to the interes's of
Irriar ri.

.11r. LITTLETON said, in reply to the inquiries of his Hon.
Fri:nil (the Member for Limerick), that the Bill was intended to
exter.ll only to counti7s, and thm is was his intention rot to pre-9
it, tiolcas the Roman Catholic Emancipation Bill sl.i.u/d pass into
a,.

lILTME was opposed to the principle of the proposed DR
111 w.oi desirous of ruppor.ing every I:ICaMITC c:Jculated to emend,
a. ti rot to limit, the rigid of buffrage, and could not, therefore. ap-
pro% e of a Bill which sought to abridge and take away the rights of
t!te prople, which it was his anxie:y not to diminish, but to increase.
The Cat'ailic Emancipation Bill he had supported. and would con.
linty., to do sot but he was unwilling that that measure should he
carried through any compromise, as seeuied to be intended by the
present Bill.

. - -
Lord ALT lIOR P had supported the principle of Parliamen-
tary Rennin, on the princlple;of its being likely to increase the
number of independent voters; but from the hest information
which he could procure on the subject of the elective franchise in
Ireland, h..: was of opinion that the system of the elective franchise,
as related to the fusty shilling freeholders there, was calculated to
diminish, and not to increase, that iudrpendcace. Ile al.ould
therefore nipport the present MIL
Colonel TRENCH said, it was impossible to read the evidence
before /he House, relating to the forty shilling freeholdera in Ire-
land, without being tilled with disgust. There were w..ne of the
evils cif Ireland whtbh ,more Peremptorily called fir regulation,
than that which it was proposed by the present II:11 to remedy.
After a few words from 3lr. O. whim were inaudible
in the Gallery, leave was grant,* to bring in a Bill'to regulate the
elective franchise in Ireland, which slr. Brownlow, Mr. Wade-
house, Mr. Plunkett, Mr. Littleton, itc. were appointed to
prernre.