The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1821-02-17 00:00:00

THE QUEEN'S ANNUITY BILL.

The Earl of LIYUPUOL Paid he had given notice
of the seensid reading of tins Bill fur Moodily, but
as there was other butanes* of impuriance fixed for
that day, mut if he thought the second reading
would produce discumuttu, be would postpone it to
Tuesday. He merely threw this out for the pur-
pose of saying. if it was likely to create a disCUagiall
he would nut press it on Monday, but wait until

Tuesday. -
THE STATE OF IRELAND.
The Earl of BLtstaTom said, that lilt year lie

NEWINGTON NEW CHURCH.
Mr. H. SUBINBIL moved the second reading of
the Newington New Church Bill.
Mr. Dimwit said that some of the provisions
of this Bill were of a rather extraordinary uature ;
and the manner in which it had been gut up and
was now attempted to be hurried through the
House, was no less extraordinary. No meeting of
the parishioners had sanctioned the introduction of
this mealtime ; the gentlemen who advocated it, had,
if he might be allowed the expression. had a hole-
and-corner meeting of their own. and handed the
petition about fur si,,,,matures, of which they had
been able to procure but a small nuniber, in pro-
poetion to the inhabitants of the parish. The
parish. in fact, knew but little, he might soy
nothing at a:I of it, until last Sunday. when a no-
tice of it was stuck upon the church doors. He
therefore moved as an amendment, that the Bill
should be read a second time that day fortnight, in
order to afford an oppoitunity to tke parishioners of
knowing what was doing, and of opposing it if
they should think proper.
Sir ROBERT WI LION said he had understood
from the Hum Genileinsii opposite, that in conse-
quence of the stanchly orders respecting the notices
to be given of Bulls of this description not having
been complied with, it lied been ordered that fresh
notices should be given, which would prevent its
proceeding so soon as had been expected ; and he
had therefore given notice to revere! persons
concerned in the opposition to this Bill, that there
was no intention to urge it forward to the second
reading this month. He supported the amendment.
Mr. H. Somoza said, that the complaint of his
Hou. Colleague respecting the want of notice to
the parirhionets. proved that Ho.i. Gentlemen to
be very ill informed upon the subject. The notice
had been regularly given at the Quarter StSfIOOS,
and all the other notices required had been given.
The only irregularity proceeded from the illness
of the solicitor to the Bill. who had, in conse-
quence, not given the notice at the church door on
three Sundays before October, as required by the
standing °Wen'. but they had been given out the
two Sundays preceding the first of October. That
those notices had been sufficient for the purpose of
may intruded opporitiou tan the part of the pn-
rishiowers, appeared frozen the circumstance of a
meeting having been held on the tit!' October, at
which a person was appointed to couduct the oppo-
sition. What he hail stated to the Hon. General
was, that the notices not having been served agree-
ably to the standing orders, Dew notices were to be
served, but that the Bill would still proceed.
Sir ROBERT ‘l'lLsos said, when the Hou. Mem-

THE TIMBER TRADE.
Mr. Ewes arid, seeing the Right Hon. the
Vice-President of the Board of Trude in his place,
he was desirous of asking him a question on a sob.
ject, respecting which much anxiety prevailed. He
alluded to the present state of the timber trade.
The Right Hon. Gentleman had been understood
on a former night to say, that the present laws re-
gulating that trade would be contineed till July
next. What he wished now to ask the Right
Hon. Gentleman was, whether it was the intention
of his Majesty's Government to propose any alter-
ation in the existing laws affecting the timber
trade, previous to the Report of the Committee
engaged in inquiring into the foreign trade gener-
ally—and also, whether the Right Hon. Gentle.
man, as President of that Committee, had it in his
power to state, whether it was likely that that
Committee 'Foetid recommend any alteration in
those laws, or would be enabled shortly to make
any Report upon this particular branch of the sub.
ject under their inquiry ?
Mr. WALLACS said he had bees erroneously re-
ported to have stated on a former evening, that it
was the intention of Government to propose the
continuance of the existing laws relating to the
timber trade till July next. What he had said was
this, that as it was possible that any recommends-
lion which the Committee might think proper to
make to the House on this subject, might not be
made in sufficient time for their ships which were
obliged to owl in the early part of the season, to
know what the intentions of Government were upon
the subject. that in that case it might be con-
vettieut to recommend the continuation of the ex-
isting laws until July, in order that those vessels
might not be subjected to the operation of any
alteration in the laws which had not been contem-
plated at the time of their being tilted out for the
voyage. But lie had stated that merely as a cotes
tingency. If the Committee should be able, and
he thought it not unlikely that by assiduous atten-
tion to the subject they might he able to make
some recommendation for the consideration of the
House previous to the expiration of the existing
laws; iii that case, he could nut contemplate their ex-
tension even for the time he had ineutioised. It
was nut from any authority lie derived front the
Committee that he made this statement. but from
his own impression as to the course it might be con.
veinent to pursue.

General Gsscoemit mid, that he knew that
merchants trading to the Baltic were particularly
inconvenienced by the present route of the ques—
tion, which kept them its such suspense that they
were unable to snake their arrangenienis. which
it war steu:ll to communicate to their correspond-
ents at this season.

SCOTTISH BURGHS.
Lurd A. HAMILTON moved, that the Petitions
presented to the House concerning the state of the
Scottish Berets in the years 1818, 1819, and 1820,
be referred to a Select Committee, tr. eXUalllbe
and inquire into the wme sod report thereon.--
Ordered, solo Cutamittee appointed.
NAVY =TIM ATE&
Sir G. WARIMIDIR pretested copies of the

Mr. Melnik, of Galway, give notice. that on
Mooday week he should move fur leave to bring its
• Bill. to enable persons charged with felony to
employ Counsel to plead in their defence.
Mr. Curium presented a Petition from certain
Inhabitants of Scarsdale, complaining of spicy!.
toad difficulties end distress.
Mr. H. G. BENNETT presented a Petitisin from
a poor man, named Thomas Rowe. of the born. ge
of Stamford. complaining that being present on an
occasion in December lest, when several ioliebitants
of that place were parading eu effigy of the Dotes.
riots Theodore Majocchi. he was apprehended on
a charge of riot, and committed to prison for want
of bail. the bail tendered by his father being re-
fused ; that the Quarter Slum game on the 13th
January, when he expeeMA Itp be tried, but was
not brought up ; that fie Ingfkligmeizi informed
his case was removed irampt,4lll> ,r a Bench,
which meant that he wee le
_be., wed at the
Anises, which did not dim ma till March
next ; he further complained of the exces-
sive hardships he endured in his confinement,
from the nature and condition of the gaol ; and
preyed for such miter as the House in its wisdom
might think fit to order. The Hon. Member pm-
ceeded to state that he confessed he was not aware
of any measure of relief which that House could
adopt in this case; but lie had thought it his duty
to present the Petition; and he hoped that at least
this good effect might follow, that the persons by
whom this poor man had been hitherto pursued,
would cease to pursue him any further; and that
the Magistrates of Stamford would be induced to
put their gaol into a more proper and decent
condition.
SCOTCH JURIES.
Mr. Kemetteir moved the first reading of the
Bill for altering and regulating the mode of ap-
pointing Juries for the 'real of Criminal Cases in
Scotland.
The LORD ADTOCATI of SCOTLAND said, that
no measure which tended to improve the admit.
stration of justice in Scotland would ever be pro-
pored, to which he should not at all times be ready
to give his most cordial support. After notice had
been given by the aro. Member of his intention
to propose the pirsent Bill, he informed that Hon.
Member, that it was intended to being in • general
measutr, futanded on the Report of the Commis-
*mien appeinted to inquire into the Administration
of JWUIa in Scotland; and recommended that the
object which he had an view should be incorporated
with. it. The Hon. Member, however, preferred
bringieg it healed in a distinct shape. He did
not Intend to oin.ose the first or second reading of
the Ball. bin lie wished to reserve to himself the
right of upposieg it if lie should think it advis-
able se to do, after it had been painted and
circulated among the Scottish bar, and after
they had express, d their opinions fully upon it.
Minty matters had been introduced into which be
would not now eater; but he would state to that
Hat. Gentleman that lie was ready at all tines to
meet the fullest investigation ; and while he
admitted that they weae great and imporniat
points, matters connected with the public prose-
cutor of Scotland, all matters of the deepest im-
portance, still he must ray they were quite irrele-
vant. Indeed it appeared to him, that there were
some Gentlemen in that House from Scotland, who
seemed to feel pleteure in sheering the defects, is
any such existed, in the institutions of their cnuaet.e .
BUt he, as a Scotchman, telt proud in standiril.
forward to defend the administiation of cii-
mired justice in Scotland, and its practice 111
general ; ai.d he would adduce in proof of his
amertious the population of Scotland, iu cons-
perison with any other in the country. Ile
would not be understood to dr. w any compari-
son beam' Sciol.n I awl the sister country, but
he introduced the observation ass order to .hew thy
singular advautsg•s which were afforded in Se4tlatet
in every case an the adininistretion of jit-tav, no
matter how simple in its nature. In Scotland. die
prisoner was furs stied with an rceouut of the
specific charge, the crime, the time, the eircuen-
menet* catinett-d wish. with a let et' the whets
of the witnesors—(Heer, hear, from the Opp,-
eition)....and of all the Jurors, and these lists were
furnished 13 full days before the trial...Olean)....
He therefore cot.teoded, that the edministretiee Of

.sot he
should consideria; this
lect fo mete deader; hut should look to the ',pint
and the' .gerteril principles of the question ; nor
enuld heaps, that because there could not ean},
freaCtictil term pointed ant. therefore they,abould
f•inlTAer %Alvin the theory; He (Hr. Kennedy)
should' water call the attention of the Legislature
• itserintlic isrepeifectioni of the m104)1,16'60,1
" to Wry of the acts of thoie to whom
it livilebifr . Would' therefore' conclude by
• Bill shetild be read a wood time
pro forms. early nixt week, and lie over till April,
stety fissure postponement that might be
• tire, Aitsy.
AI!. N. A.Taottoa stated, that although not •
Scotch lawyer."he'sbereld feel happy to meet the
I..;aresed Lord 'a/ 'any time on the law of the case;
fur he had in his poa.essinu the opinions of some of
the most edsiaent lawyers that ever were at the
Sewell bar on is case of considerable importance
eon. eCted with the administration of justice iu that
country,
• the LORD ADVOCATE should have no objection
to Meet the Huii. Meinber on dial subject, for that
case had Within the tail year undergone a most grave
sad deliberate consideratinu.
'llr. J. P. GRANT observed, that some of the
filet Scotch lawyers euttrtained consideruhle doubts
on that question.
The Hilt was then read a first time, and ordered
to be read a second time on Thursday next, and to
be printed.
DUTIES ON TIMBER.
Mr. MARIVIATT presented a Petition from cer-
tain Merchants and Traders of the British Coloniei
in Ninth Americo, solieiting the House not tie
wake any *lteration in the meting duties on
bet, twit would have the effect of giving ai coffin-
• t
deraMe advantage to foreigiiers.
Ordered to be printed.
t•lt
• TRISH UNION DUTIES.
Mr. CURWEN piesented hh Iletition from Kendal,
praying a revision of the Irish Dillon Duties,
supporting the prayer of the Petition he wished
to state, that if it could herbervn that the Pro-
tecting duties whiCh existed in Ireland were an
advantage to that country, that either the Right
Honourable Gentleman opposite (the Chancelhir
• of the Exchequer), or some Gentleman connected
with Irish ukaits, should inform the House Mt
the subject ; and lie trusted that no opposilioit
*would be given to a Committee of Inquiry ; for If
those adviottges did not exist, thtelifouTiA retnoVw
In soon as possible all restrictions in the horn,
trade, which was our principal market ; for on sit
investigation into foreign mule, it would be founfi
inconsiderable indeed, compared With the other.
Sir 11. PARNELL always felt peculiar satisfaction
• in addressing the (louse on any subject connected
'with Ireland. He wished to colt the attention of
the Masa to the real state of the case, fur it was
one that should be settled on es good and firm
.principles as possible. Early in time last Session
the Ilight Honourable Gentleuian opposite (the
4,:hatieetlor of the Exchequei) pissed a Bill through
that Hisiise,-eonliiruing the whole of those duties.
and he would take upon himself to say that if it
Lad been longer before Parliament, Petitions would
have.ppored u' from ell .psits of England against
•it. ifethOught that a greater tristAe never was
made than the Irish Parliament had committed in
imposing these protecting duties. For every Gen-
tleman who coseriders the subject must see, that
every reciprocalthdy of this kind must, in a great
'ilatasorr, affect the general commercial interest ;
-iiod the consequence has been, that although these
defies have now existed 40 years, these is no such
thing in Ireland as a flourishing manufacture. Ile
t ,
. Inerirowe'kween that these restrictions were then-
ilieWe as practically injurious to Ireland,
an• d
he hoped the Right Hon. Gentleinau would
~fist in inquiring into what should be considered a
mutual advantage, and would serve the Coonnercial
interests of both countries.
Mr. C. H. IlUTclitNsoN was sorry to Weepy
the uttentiOn of the house, Inn lie felt himself
obliged to do so, from some e biereutiona that had
been made on this subject. The Hon. Member had
lade a prima facie ease, on which he founded his
maw. It was impossible to counder this sub-
,fr.w. without thinking on the distresses of that
_eonntry, and no man more sincerely deplored those
(stresses than lie did, but surely it was not the
hest way to alleviate.tlwse distresses by beginning
in impose fresh ones. lie was surprised to hear an
jrivh Member support such a Petition, which went
so relieve the distresses of England, by disiressiug
lielaiid. There should he a tuntual and general
good (echo* anal he would not wish to serve the
manufactures of Ireland to the injury of England.
But he could speak front his local knowledge
of the city which he had•the -honour of represent-
ins (Cork), that if thew duties were furilnviiti
withdrasin, it would be attended Willethe utmost
distress, sod would throw several persons out of
bread, and increase the miseries, already intolera.
s lilt, which the people endured.
.MT.,LITTLEToN observed, that, generally speak..
. ing, nothing could be more unjust than to tax
, earlissodities between this:two countries. • Now, wills
sespoct to the two ertiules oh pottery and hard-
eisare, from his eiperierice indite (nerdy where he
heed, he could sate tpidie Mourerthet some time
,111141 P, a Petition hail
.basis imeseastard to the House
, Ulm Ireland to continue theolwt.iss ow the contest).
milieu. although thew igridkpi b opetwfacturee of
:.title kind in the clitioVil Aigebld be no ritsu-

Bill,
ado sod had
beneficlai effects;
!foist would plate 410141 *9 *.
on the sortie footing as corn ticarried bettering,.tb
countries. '
Mr. Putt. was anxious to promote the welfare of
Ireland, mod lie couceived thitt thee silly sedilpioe.
irons were a considerable skipdeatdillgts It, MOP'
ed, in his. mind, iso great decoottaleotioo toprotto.
that to gempel Ireland to deal with England op,
higher terms than are neceusry, could aid be fat.
their advantage. He thought it quite impossible
that any man should defend it nu that gepulid. It
was one of those coves on which we are all agtoiNk
as to the general principles laid deem by all writs*
on political economy, but on which we differ 'WM
we come to individual capes. It was one elf Os
greatest absurdities tu iniogitie that Ireland MOO
receive a benefit by the commutation of these distiosil
end he thought it would serve tbe ioterests of Greek
Britsin and frelend to remove all those restrictiOnt
that oily tend to fetter that free commercial Won
course whieb it should be our wish to promote.
The CHANCELI.OR of the gxciiitousa was Id
dirposed to cuter iwo the question at large. Indite
wished to give the House some explanation foie
respect to his conduct laid Srs.isn. It wisp witAhll
view to preserve the manuroctures of Ireland keel
sustaining ally depression, by a sudden end isrendlo
tore fluctuution, that he was induced to submit llag
propoettion.to the House fur cestinising them. Owl
he could assure the (louse that it was no sudden
view of the case. that yctuated him. He could
fissure the House that the suliject had rot beim
lost sight of, end lie trusted that what stators
would be adopted is ould be one Of cooelhalion.
Mr. M. FITTOSIALD observed, that the neces-
sity of inquiry had been advocated almost unani-
mously ; and so far from joining with the Heal
Member for Cork (Mr. Hutebterson) in blearsialit
the birth Members for sopporting the Petitiendrill
thought it was rather u matter of cnogratubilion.
He did not view it in that narrow way—hr did not
consider that lie merely represeuted the local in.
terests, but the nation at large. He was anxious
that au inquiry should be imaituted he thought
that the existing regulations were unnecessary, and
he protested against the dostriiie of raising the
revenue on the trade between the two countriee.
Mr. Ctikerzo explained. The Member for
Cork had doue him impieties in *rein that the '
Petition meant the Iron iskjory to Ireland. He
expressly stated that the Petitioners expressed that
they had no wish to confer an advantage on Bug-
load by injuring Ireland.
Mr. SHAW supported the motion for inquiry,
and hoped that all unuecesrary duties would be
taken off.
'rite Petition was ordered to be brocglit up.
Sir 11. P•INSEL explanied:
Mr. C. HUTCHINSON stated, that it certainly ap-
peared strange tu him that Irish Members should
suppoit a Petition to remove the protecting duties
from the manufacturing trade of Inland.
Mr. BRowNE addressed the House in a few
words, which we were unable to collect in the
gallery.
Au Hon. Member under the gallery, whose IMAM
we cuold not learn, supported the Petition.

The Petition was ordered to lie wn the table.
Some papers relating to the. Commissariat De.
pastrwont and Victualling Board were laid before
the House, and otdrred to be sainted.
Mr. H. Twin-gave notice of a motion fir Mon.
day net k, relative to the Court of Chancery. We
could not learn the precise purport of ;t.

KING'S BENCH.
Mr. CHETWYND moved fur lease to bring in a
Bill for the production of a return of all times in
the Court of King's Bench for the lust three years,
•nd the manner in which these fines were imposed.
The nemeses( Members ahseat on the ballot were
ordered to be reported on Monday next.
The Order of the Day for the Grants' Trader
was then read.
COURT OF SESSIONS BILL.
On the Order of the Day for bringing up the
Report of the Court of Sessions Bill—
Mr. CREEVEY rose to inquire of the Learned
Lord Advocate, whether this Bill was brought in
n► consequence of the Report of the Scotch Parha-
Memory Commissioners Both in this and the
Scotch Court of Admiralty salaries were to be paid
•nd compensations made. and it was therefore very
desirable that some fuller information should Le
before the House.

Mr. KENNEDY wished lo know whether the sala-
ries of officers were recommended by the Comma-
' wooers I
The LORD ADVOCATE said, tl at the alteration
in the system had generally the approbation of the
Parliamentary Commissioners.
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill pursue
ant to the resolutions.
IRISH JUDGES SALARIES BILL.
The House then sent Into a Committee on the
Irish Judges &daisies Bill.
Ow the clause bring proposed for allowing a
compensation to certain Officers of the Courts of
Kiug's Bench and Common Pleas la Ireland, iu
lieu of fees abolished—
Sir Jona Newport. rose and said, that in 1803,
on the abolition of certain fees in the Court of
Eulogiser in Ireland, for which compensation was
Made out of the CO lidated Fund, the effect.of
that messuie wolvir a corresponding increase
its the fees of tbf ' rio uch Ind Connuou Pleas
apt(

in the compep4OM"iir they were
sitting !is trustees of a 'ante' person instead of the
public, s more minute emmtimi lion would certainly
take place of the elainis to compensation. Without
now saying whether these compensatious ought to
be grupted of not, he thought he was entitled to
ask for sonsetiim 171 furtUir coollideratiou, pledging
himself to built into the Itvort in the mean time.
lie s'hould, therefore, more as an amendment, that
instead of now, the Report be received o.i Monday
ae'nnight.
The LORD A nvocaTt said, the present measure
was only following up the recommendation of the
Parliainentary Consorassioners, by which a certain
brunch of the Court of Admiralty acre entirely
abolished. In that branch, there were certain in-
dividuals, who had a right to the fees for their
sod under the circumstance of the abolition,
it wild impossible, he conceived, to leave those iodi-
viduals uncompensated.
Mr. MARTIN opposed the amendment.
The LORD ADVOCATI expressed his readiness
fo have the Report furthef considered.
Tire question was then put, suit the Report or-
dered to be brought up, and further constdered on
Monday re'unight.
The Flax and Cotton Acts were referred to •
committee of the whole lionise on Mondry Heat.
Lord l'aLsraoseors. gave notice that he should
present the Army Estimates on ibis day fortnight.
ARlTlstt MUREUW.
Mr. LIMPARR rose to submit a motion to the
House relative to the British Museum. It wso
well knowu that there was • large binary, increased
by uonscrous legacies ; a collection of minerals. and
those valuable remains of aocient art—the Elgie
marbles. Greet part of those things were with be-
coming liberality open to the public.; but there seas
artist ofthe collection to which there was a-difficulty
of access, which he should be glad to see reinoved.
In France the greatest liberality prevailed with
respect to admissions to aU their public lintitutialls.
—lf it were true that in this country there existed
such • spirit of mischief, that similar liberality
could not here be safely displayed, that was a rea-
son why more officers should he employed. The
' difficulty of *me to the tending-room, depending,
as it did, upon a recommendation of a trustee ur
an officer: of the Museum, made the whole of the j
benefits to be derived from that part of the
lotion dependant ou a few persons. The flonour-
able Member coadoiled by moving for returns of
the nousber of applicatiom made to the Trustees of
the British Museum for admission to view that
.part of the collection of minerals which was not
generally shewu; a similar return as to the ntedids ;
' the prints arid drawings, and number of persons
applying for admission to the reeding room; such
-gement' to extend to the last five years past, and
•to contain the number of admissions under the up.
plications. Also, a return of the salaries and du-
ties of the officers.

Mr. C. Linea, as a Tnts'ee of the Museum,
-could not suffer the observatio►es of the Hos. Mein-
ber to pars without a few remarks. It had ever
been the alai of the Trustees to give every facility
consistent with the preservation of the collection
• intrusted to their care. There were two chums or
persons who visited the Museum ; the one went
for amusement rather their instruction, and to
tl►is class of late great facilities had beets
• allotted : PO that there were at least fifty thetisand
persons of that description who visted the Museum
annually. The other class of persons were
artists and literary men, who went there to
prosecute their literary researcher, or to prosecute
their meritorious labours; and with respect to them,
they must resort to that part which was most valu-
able, and to which it would be improper
to give indiscriminate admission. Some restiattits
were absolutely necermry. The Honourable Mem-
bee had said that the restraints were too great,
and had referred to the example of France and
other countries, where the restrinets were trot so
great ; bat Ire happened tar know that in the
library at Paris eery considerable losses had been
surtr►nri. The Hun. Member had rather over-
stated the difficulty of procuring admis►ion.—
There were 43 trustees and ten or twelve officers,
to any of whom he was assured nu respectable person
would ask admission and be refused. The rale,
indeed, appeared rather revere in theory, but in
practice no complaint could justly be made against
it. The Hon. Member then eulogized the characters
of the officers of the institution, than whom he de-
clared it was impossible to find a set of men more
fitting for the stations which they so worthily
oecu pied. •
• Mr. H. GURNEY bore testimony to the facilities
giver. by the attention of the office's of the I tistitu-
tution.• Indeed, he knew that some persons from
the cottony, whose brief stay in town prevented
their complying with all the formalities prescribed,
had been, notwithstanding, allowed access.—
Stich conduct might be expected from the high
character of the officers, who were Grotlen►ru
of the highest literary attainments, and stood
at the heed of their respective department.. It
should be remembered that the revenue which the
F.ench Government gave to their libraries alone,
was equal to what was given to the whole British
Museum, and therefore the unpin, to hint was,
tbst so much had been done with so little means.
Mr. Boutin coincided in the approbation which
hod been expressed of the officers of the Museum.
A Member (whose name we could not lean),
odyottitts to whit he had uadentood to be the state

such fp,.
-uhtedlv,
t "lousy.
sirsble taut there shoultt be a MOM secured front
fire, fur Oe preservation of the "doable trea.ure
of courouscripts winch the Museum now load in a
room pinch too small for the purpose. The uni-
form object of the Trustees was, to make the col-
lection intrusted to their care available to the pro-
motion of learning and science.
The CHANCELLOR of the EICHUQUER said, that
after the testimonies which had beers given front
both sides of the tiousc, and considering the great
portion of lab • which would he consumed in the
preparation of the returns, the lion. Member would
perhaps riot be disposed to press his motion.
Mr. Bee egrr praised the conduct of the (dß-
cett, sod ju.tilied the restraims upon admission.
All libraries were, he said, subject to petty larceny,
and there was, in fact, no college library in the king-
dom, but what had suffered considerably front that
species of plunder ; he trusted, therefore, ohm his
lion. Frietrd would not press his motion.
Mr. LENNARD replied, but emsretviug that the
objects of Iris motion (which regarded not the con-
duct of the officers so much as the system) were
well deserving of inquiry, declined agreeing to the
recommendation of his lion. Friend to withdraw
hi. mutton.

♦fter a few more observations, the motion was
agreed to.
ORDNANCE ESTIMATES.

Mr. HUMS rose to move fur various estimates
referring to the Ordnance Service, for the ”rar
1793, and those of the prevent period. Among
his reasons for making this motion, were, the re-
commendations of the Reports of the Commis-
sioners of Military luquov, and the general lie-
ces.sity of retrenchment. it was strange, that the
house never had the real estimates of the Ordnance
Department before it. The estimates of the coming
year were made up by anticipation ; and theexpendi-
tore of the preceding year sees carried out in one
total, without any details mato the application of the
grouts. But what was of more consequence he
was about to relate. Ile had looked over the se-
edlings for the last ten or twelve years, and iii ho
one instance had the expenditure agreed in its total
amount with the estimates previously voted. With-
out rosy rec)toning fur old stores, the estimates and
expenditure for the last three yeasts appeared to.be
estimates f r 1817, 1,189,04)01.; sums stated as ex-
perirliture for mine year on sth January, 1818.
1,435,0001., leaving a difference of 300,0001. In
1818, estimates 1,200,0001. ; total statement of
expenditure sth January, 1819, 1,400,0001..
to
1819, estimates 1,100,000 i. ; expeinlitisie
'saccount of sth January, 1820, 1,538,000/. ;
isokini2; a difference of 400,000/. Ily way of
"explatio rig the character of this expenutture bet
ler. he called.the attention of the House to the oc-
,contuts of a period after a war, correepouriiiig to
the present—he meant the three years before 1791,
1792, and 1793. In 1791, the expenditure of the
OrdnaLce Department was 506,000/. which includ-
ed 70,000/. of debt ; in 1791. 419,000/, including
.4idmartra wad eureordiouisea; Ili 1793, 513,0001.
The +time estimates were, for 1818, 1,400,0001. ;
for 1819. 1,500,0001. ; and this year they would be
• on le.s. A saving has been talked of, amounting to
15,000/. ; but this was not a very correct statement.
—lu iseo, the ramose,. for ordinaries were
1,303,000/. 'lite estimates toe dna year were
1,300,0001. Su that the sating would be only
3,000/. flow far would this sum go towards the
million which was to be saved in all the depart-
ments? But this was nut all, the estimates tor
this year would still he greater than iu 1819.—
Notwithstanding the recominendatiot.a of the Com-
missiouers of Military Inquiry. the Wades of offi-
cers were kept up to 43,0001. per annum, being
8,0001. more than the sum recommended as the
limit for that expense in 1810. In 1782 the ex-
pellee of the whole civil establishment ear the Ord-
nance Service. including Pall-mall sod the l'orse,,
was 38,0001. By 1796. it had increased to
51,618/.• in 1805, it was fixed by royal *errant at
91,000/. for the utmost. In 1808 it ruse to 104,009 i.
and iu a little time after to 124,000/. It had been
tripled since 1796. There were gratuities allowed
for lengthened services to the amount of 30,000/.
and he had great reason to believe that ibis
sum was shared among those who received the
43,000/. in salaries—making an annual receipt
among that body of persons of 73,000/. who were
formerly paid with 20,0001. lea 1796 there were
gratuities wade on she recommendation of a Fi-
ounce Committee of 2,3001. as usi addition to the
emoluments of the clerks and officers to make up
fur the increased prices of provisions. Like every
other branch of every other establishment, these
gratuities had gone on increasing in amount.
From 1796 till 1812 they increased slowly. They
were Dieu 8,000/4 iii the next year 9,6001.; then
10,000/. then 15,000/. then 24,0001. ; and liner
they were thirty thousand pounds.—The 13th R.:-
port of the Commissiouers stated that the ord.
mince service enjoyed advantages unknowa to
any other. Ile complained of several of the ar-
rangements of the present Master-General of the
Ordnance, particularly the increase of salary of his
present secretary to 2,000/. which in 1796 was only
3001. There /was a public secretary to pay bender.
The last Committee of the House, in 1819, had
made a great merit of recommending the reduction
of the private secretary to 1,100/. The salary of the
public seartury had increased fourfold since 1616.
The office of Under-Secretary had bees seduced
egreeablt to the recosausendatioa of the Commis..
•

limner", Intl the salary of Soot. was now divided be-
tween the two clerks. He then pointed out teatimes
particulars relating to the pity of Officers ansl Clerks
in the provincial and colonial branches of the de-
partment. Ile was of opinion that by doing sway
abuses • reduction of 400,0001. a-year could he
effected. Ele costnitbsined of ib.e rstionees of tbsim.
powder mistinfsetories at Wylthain and Premiums.'
At the !atter place there was not • erans-ef powder
mob Pisrleo). I,s* 00.4)440weg11f
kept up. /Jr recited Overall inetences ot ethnics
increased, and sppoieteteuts mile for the Fern.,
sham eitsbtishrnent lons after tilt mills bed In:eg
dispensed of. The clerks n the Sheeniest depart.t
merit let the houses allowed them by Queer..
and lived at ctepeeoboruiteh. where they made
themselves useful at elect:tow. Here ageitt
was another red indulgence to this depart-.
meta, which Ina denied to the others. The
stvvisists of the Ordnance were allowed to vote at
elections, *Me those of the Plait and Stamp Offieca
were premisted. He hoprfl this evil would be done
away. He complensed of the itunserous appoint-
wilt, Ott board the tape's and tkatmg magaxines
of the Ordnance, ist when he said that there were
altogether in seven vessels. 66 person., all freemen
of Queenborough, employed chiefly, as he Could
prove, from the recommendation of !byre %1,
1/nitrates of the borough. Idle were able to come
mend the returns at elections. The expenses a
this department were very little other than the
perversion of the public money to electimieesing
purposes. They exhibited corruption ions 4rpod.
est sense. He complained of the use made of the

vessels sod AMC. for the private purposes of the
officer.: while a poor labouring man would he sub-
ject to 'importation for taking two brass nails, a
whole boat load of valuable stores (tie could prove
the fee ) might be conveyed to the homer of the
store-kteper with impuinty. The wood wag hpinro.
ally consotued, gait-carriages cut and burnt, at
the public expense. Hp bekersd that the coils
belonging to the Kitties yards were aloe made tree
with. In the observutions which he had made, he

might have mistated some things ; but he woo
right in the maw, and the House had stay to look
ut the sews IWO to he convinced that he was right.
There was another item of 4,000/. for gunnels;
it was plover dirt the House should know how
many, and where they resided. In owe list tloie
were five Items, amounting to 35,000!. For the
isaymeot of watchmen, labourers, artificers, &e.
28,000/. ; the klouse ought to know where sud
how many were employed. He could imagine
no misfit why returns of the artillery shuttle!
not be made in companies, battalions, or comp*,
iii the same manlier as the regiments in the
Army E.iiinatrs, instead of Leiria pal in one tonnes
emu of v 170,0001. He also Oa/led to know why
ility might not to have some fuitlier iuformation
about the establishment of the Governor and cadet*
at IVoolwiett. than 7,0001. That estublishme nt had
cost, in 1814 and 1814, 17,350(. He wished to
see whether they attended to the recommendation
which bad been made tp redace the number of
cadets. The number was one hundred sod hefty ;
the course of education was three years; so that to
provide for the comber, there ought to be give
fifty commissions a year. There were not so mak-
commissions, tberefore there was no necessity for
that nitwits* of cadets. Another item was Extra-
ordioinies, Current Services, end Contingencies
Ise never could learn what those repairs were. He
toed asked loony officers of artillery, and they
were equally at a logs with himself. Certainly
it was too large a sum fur keeping in retail
the worlut iu e.riona ports, of wood and stoup—
die amount was 480,000% Out thing mere h.
would Inelluuu : the charge fur stores wits 40,0001.
While they were daily selling stores, they
ought to he careful how they wanted such
large mini for the purchase of twee stores--
The blouse ought also to are that the *croon,*
were kept up : be foetid they were much oesketed,
for, in the estimates in his hared for 1840, he saw
items dated 1818. Some explanation was neces-
sary respecting the Irish establishment. The ex-
pense of ilie einoblishinein at Dubin, was equal to
that of Woolwich ; the expense *1 the staff alone
exgeetled that of the whoie of the artificer., la-
bourers. &c. Iltroaghusit Ireland—she former
br-
ing 7,660 L while the latter was only 6.7601. Tho
contingencies in Ireland amounted to 34,0001.: this
really required explanation. lion. Gentleman
then proceeded to observe, that he thought the
Ordnance Department our of the most extravagant,
and the roost in nerd of ietreoclitneut mud reform
of any of the public offices. The rate of the sl-
- at the present period of peace, owing to the
rise iu the value of money, and the abolition of the
income tax, was 40 per cent. higher than when the
war was c-anying un, nod the duty at its height. Th.!
whole country was loudly cluing for a reduction
of the taxation ; bat that could slot be effect&
without a reduction of the expenditure ; and he
WAY convinced that by a rigid attention to eeonomv.
and a proper spirit of retrenchment iii the differ-
cut public offices, the Ordnance in particular, a oar-
ing of 5,000,000/. animal, might easily be e&rt-
ed. The 'Tricot of corruption which pervadtd
every branch oh' the (loversiment, mud whirl,
seemed to be consideted essential to its ex-

istence, might oppose considerable ishipctiorps
to such sacrifice-a. But be would recommend
retrenchment in them particulars to the Noble
Lord opposite, as a piece of su►.ud policy, adapted
to strengthen the inliucure of Government. Tlns
►ystem of corrupti.n► rendered it necessary to have
some means of prowling far their depelidsutel it
they reduced the number of good things to Ise
given away they would increate tl►eir iallueriee ;
because their dependants, the expectant' of recant
owl promot►on, would become the more zeolous
and devoted, in plooortiore as the chances of reward
became mole wince. The lion. Gentleman con-
cluded by aiming. ►hat there be laid before the
House particulars of the Ordnance Estimates of
the present year, and the Estimate of 1793. He
also moved fur a copy of the Ledger of the Ord-
mit.ce Department, as recommended by the Com-
missietieni of Military liiquiry•
Lord Nugent. seconded the motion.
Mr. WAILD then ease and said, that t►eaa was no
dead-eon the part of t►e Ordnance Departnaeut to
keep back a single agate of their account.. He
felt much au:prim-dm the averse which had been
pursued by the Hw►eureble Gentleman opposite.
So eitexpected was the coarse which the Houoiertible
Geuilemen had teketa, that be had nut o eistiev

• 10 •
It- satire, tales ass whole, wee a vitals
,well, per. figs to
aiii_, to 3eee '• wit sad seee • ' ,It 'eolith_ •
„6. 46, -. 46, ' to lelßekholltling, questioned sithe4llolr. R
.944
haps the best calculated topmast* the ends of jue. vantage
.. cr. . 111.! :: the pu • • % -7-' ' • hi the Miser way, instead 4(4mi ' ORM
. ; bort . I . ' . i IOP -4 ..
lice. He would mot demo the House longer, but i 4 to mew . se 0 o.in repeats on the proms* ,lidding, we to
•5... • L ($.l, 'Ads.
would conclude with the metiment with which be le • -
set out, that he would net object to the 'int reed. the ,: , • • 4'' ..- ii • I --- to •
to effect, be pitying lode. for the some thing. project fora public edificietecesusemorate our naval
log of the Bill. it could net •'• •" ' te. Mr. C. GRANT said ate* words across the isble, and military victories. Sock a building would serve
14.1razabasatstad.shagaaJit-ara-Tgucii. • • . . JJK.statEsizt of !slick!, mould zug.clsileipt. --_-_. . adatizsiltx.ip a =watery for Os WV ti.4sAt pzeig*
ante to en Oseleeemen a night or two ege, sponetttneini I,4l"ElltWallcrAill4iseu ato .(tegi —.The BAsolutions were' 11:;sz sem* reed end collected in the 'Britiat Museum.' Hi wai assured
_in the eltievice IfthiiLeensed Lord, but that heti to Ireland, the House would de lam the j lw • agreed to, and the Report ordetM bibs received that a great number of works of nature sod of art
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SCOTCH COURT 1)R ADMINSLTY•
of the Scotch Court oe AdreimPlq was then read. *c
ixa e tatenc,!-
dee 'id Hi doe the Imeerd
tg i, eg jr,...y.,
rottrir ;1 • iri!„,ol- • t.k.o. it wee
of
thel Orderoruol "iotfteetheooDttye &i•
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nsaiinithne
oßmepocerrts
in Msnirnc.htlnxclegune:Kes‘tvhsszited::t
ticihioeeu presentlodbegi
ho
mbettiradrlbyttliesortgbewsvoearrseirlyugef
• ?ill! 4, ._ i • s ta'.744Tg.j19,; milt° rff'S it:- lett fl. seq_ PI: rdlill. 'CliTi;Sltd attieol:iall;
jklro
• 1. • hey
• .r_i____:ti,P4l4' - tiP could ant IF." . WorOte the wen-beiOf at ITIPFtp.I of bet co • Mr' CizglizT °Neeled to bringing uP the Re-
.t, ceisett• the treSieft had tanned their thoughts to
. ,
tittitleSl4. to • at'astmsoras that sitift elf Per,-.. tries ftt rove the*. r I hfs•rotgeoursc between port in the present paucity of information under the subject, end it was conctired that a part might
sons who rose in the; Jimmie with igretetioes die- the Ito coeintriel should be ipe Pee es posaihie, red which they laboured. The Lord Advocate had be built annually, according to a general plan,
,_ ,
re**, 19 nttecit 011ie institdijetts ;he rose with soypueressary duties iwycOid wi it roust teed not given piny information to thew the necessity of Iso that in a few years the public would be in
, a far 'different. itstintiois, it was *not with p esey to to injure the commercial kuterists 4 AKIO. cou.q- the eheagea introlaced. nor had he stated that the possession of a good building, end the expense
: censure. bin to Insedi the detects sif the inpittu- tries. It eu for that reason that, 'in Igo, .he in- Parliamentary Commissioners bad recommended incitried thereby be rendered roinparrtively
•,. t.oni. The Wined Lord'hed stolid that irrelevant troduced the Corn Bill, which Ali . H9tise were them compensations to the clerks. There was twilling I,ght. Wen such general µLuis shou'd be farmed,
- metiers had hems introduced. Bet he thOughf that pleased to adopt, and which he' hoped had p(9. in which such monstrous ibuMs had been committed it ought, undoubtedly, to be first laid before a
, . Jr• should not be citidned in consider iug this sub- duced benetlrial Biol.; and he treated that the es in the matter of compenMtiona• and if they were Committee of that House. It was extremely dc-
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