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place. But still he was convinced, that the diAion
i• to three Chambers of concurrent jut isdiaions was
the most advisable and hankie! measure. With
respell to the Court of Review, he would wish to
question the Learned Judges, whether the division
of the Court of Session into two Chambers *as any
violation of the articles of the Union and if no

violation, why the appointment of a Chamber
of Review, in which some of the very Judges
of the Court of Session would sit, or to which
Lords Extraordinary would be appointed, should
be considered incompatible with that great
compatt The Noble Lord adverted to other
questions, *kith he proposed to put to the Learned
Judges in attendance; and which went to aft&
either the necessity of the alteration ; the division
into three Chambers ; the IntroduSion of the Trial
by Jury, in certain cases ; and the Appointment of
a Court of Review, or intermediate Court of Ap-
peal. He then concluded with moving the question
a: to the great expense of the present process, as
being much greater than the obi ,za in controversy.
Phe LORD CHANCELLOtt expresscd himself
anxious to receive every information ; and thc:tfore
he had not risen to oppose the present motion. But
he submitted whether the question should not be
enlarged, with a view of ascertaining whether the
Court of Session was not able, by the existing laws,
to redress such grievaaces and inconveniences?
After so Ise few observations from the Earl of
LAUDERDALE, Lord REDESDALE, and the
Duke of ATHOL, the question, as amended by the
Lord Chancellor, was put and carried, as were the,
other questions proposed.
The LORD CHANCELLOR then moved,
" That he be desired to communicate the decision
of the House to the Lord President and the other
Learned Judges who wore in attendance."—Or
dered.
The LORD CHANCELLOR rose from the
Woolsack, and said —" My Lord President, you
will please to state wh.os you and your brother
Judges oil be wile to riot's 3 answo-s to the ques-
tions proposed by this House, and which have now
been delivered to you."
After a fro ruinntes consultation with the other
Jt.dges below the Bor.
The Lord President replied—" My Lords, if it
should be the desire of the House, that after a peril-
ral of those questions, our ansu et should be imme-
diate, we will be ready to give them this night ;
but if it is the will of your Lordships to grant a
longer time, though for my own part I should pre-
fer to-morrow, yet I wish to coincide with those of
any fellow Judges, who wish to have until Monday.
I laving said these few words, I will trespass upon
) our Lordships' time fora little, whilst I advert to
the ►ituatiou in svh;cll.—(.4 cry of Order ! Order !
preempted Au yroccedme anti tutee.)
The Lord Chief Justice Clerk wished to know
whether the answers were to he in writing ? He
then stated the inc,,nvenience attending any further
delay, to the important and cearest interests of that
pan of the country.
The LORI) CHANCELLOR anso-ered, that the
result was to be in writing, but that the reasons
should be given viva ogee.
Lord ERSKINE move I, " That the House do
receive the answers or the Scotch Judges on Monday
next, at three o'clock."—Ordered.
On the motion of Lord GRENVILLE, the ques-
tions proposed by the House were ordered to be
p:i..t.J.
LOAN INTER EST BILL.
Lord HAW KF.SBURY then moved, "That the
WMe resolve itself into a Committee on the Loan
Interest Bill."

Lord AUCKLAND briefly stated the circam-
stances attending the introdudion and progress of
the Bill through ° the other House. The financial
Pleasure, adopted by the late Administration, of
pledging the War Taxes for 20 years, had his warm
approbation ; the amendment which had been pro-
posed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the
other Horse, of setting loose the duties upon im-
ports and exports, and upon tonnage, he considered
as a violation of the 'Parliamentary faith, and an
undue compliment paid to persons assuming the title
of the shipping interest, wising remonstrances were
founded . r. a selfish and narrow policy, although the
whole of the duties upon Tonnage scarcely amount-
ed to sixty thousand pounds.
The Duke of MONTROSE defended the con-
dua of Administration, and tl:e principles on which
t2fry had grounded the amendments they had pro-
posed to the plan of Finance, as introduced by the
late Chancellor of Exchequer (Lord H. Petty.)
Lord SIDMOUTH entered at some length into
an explanation and defence of the principles on
which his plans of Finance had ly-411 formed, and
proved their beneficial and produaive results. The
increased produce of the - Taxes, which had
been imposed within thii::.en months, now
amounted to not les. than fourteen millions ster-
ling. The foundation of this produdive sys-
tem, had been laid by that great and immor-
tal statesman, Mr. Pitt; but it was found that
the raising of supplies, according to the old
mode of taxation, had nearly re shed its conclusion;
and even some of those which had been imposed
during the latter period of Mr. Pitt's Administration,
had fallen much ,hort of their estimated produce.
The new Financial System, introduced by the Noble
Lord, (H. Petty), the late Chancellor of the Ex.
chequer, was, therefore. highly commendable ; and
he must seriously caution His Majesty's present
Ministers to beware how they interfered with, or
counteraied, the plan which had been introduced.
The taxes upon smports and exports, and upon
manage, were those proposed to be withdrawn
from the number of the war taxes to be pledged as
a security to the loanholders for the ensuing twenty
yeas; it was hue, a sufficiently ample security from
other war taxes would still remain ; at the same
time, he thoocht it more advisable, twat even this
nominal ...cum,/ should not bit with-held from those
who had advanced their money upon stipulations en-
tered into with the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
and upon the faith of Parliament.
Lord KINNAIft 1) disapproved of all the com-
plimentary language which had been held by the
Noble Viscount towards the present Administration,
robating as he did their condue in coming into
office, and the proceedings which had marked the
commencement of their Ministerial career.

• •.• r• i. v.. ••• r • .4" ,••h..••

prineirles and measures of His Istisk% presert•
Ministers, 'and particularly. with Wiped to the
amendment of the finintial measure, as el i:Tinally
brought lo*ard by ele late Chancellor of the
chequer. He considered die Noble Lord who ha A
spoken let, al hiving pi odatcd no argument what-
ever, in proof of his general attack up'm Ministers.
Lord GRENVILLE began by defending the
Noble Lord (Kinnaird) from the at tat k which hail
been made upon him. He then entered into the
cubic& by remarking, th it the means of taxation,
according to the old and ordinary modes, had
become almost exhausted. The late Adminis.
nation, upon entering into office, had by no
means got upon a Geri r;f- rotes; the difficulties
which they had to encotsnter were great and
various, and particularly with regard to the
most eligible mode to be adopted to raise the
necessary supplies, and in the most advantageous
manner, for the increased expenses of the war
establishment. It was thetefore the effect of ne-
cessity rather than of choice, that this new system of
finance had been intradneed ; it was a measure
which had been maturely deli'derated upon, and
which, he was firmly persuaded, was essential to
the salvation of the country. By means of the
proposed measure, the War Taxes were to be in-
creased from six to fourteen millions. The new
system of Finance was formed upon the principle
of a revolving series, by means of which, the War
Taxes were to be paid off within a certain period.
Rat he must objet to the alterations in this
system, which had been lately brought forward by
the present Ministers, viewing, as he did, the pro-
posed alterations, to amount to a breach of
faith with the public creditors. His Lordship
then touched upon the circumstances whii•li
had occasioned the late change in Ills l'Sl.4j:sty's
Counsels, and particularly adverted to the cir-
cumstance of a certain Noble Earl ( Westmoie-
land) having proposed from the Throne, to the Irish
Parliament, the bestowing of large privileges
upon the Roman Catholics of that Country, and yet
now joining in an Administration formed upon the
express principle of refusing any farther concession.
to the Catholics. 'I his caled up
The Earl of WES 0101:ELAND, who stated,
that in 1;9."., he had proposed to the Irish Parlia-
Mew the abolition of certain penal statutes, as well
as rendering them eligible to civil situations and
employments, (42 exceptions,) besides military em-
p!eyments, excepting Generals on the Staff ; but
that he had never countenanced a measure similar
to that which His Majesty's late Ministers had
brought forward.
Lord 1-LARROWBY, adverting to the immediate
subject of the financial system introduced by the
late Chancellor of the Exchequer, maintained the
right of Parliament to agree to, or disagree from,
any stipulations entered into between the Chancellor
of the Exchequer and the Contradors of the Loan,
for any loan for the year ; and more especially when
a new system was entered into, professing to mort-
gage the War Taxes, and to bind all parties for the
space of twenty years. The only fault he had to
find with the amended Bill was, that it did not go
tar enough; tor, its his opinion, Parliament ought
not to commit themselves to any pledge to the
public creditor, for more Lii%Z.,..3 than were sufficient
to secure the interest of the Loan.
Lords GRENVILLE and lIARROWBV each
spoke in explanation.
Lord HAWKE:SUM'? said, that although he
feat serious objedions to tits financial measure. yet
he should not object to the Bill's going through
Parliament for the present yea!, Uu,ti g that it
would still remain open to the future and deliberate
examination of Parli on and that the opioloi,s
which other persons might be inclined to utter
the suhjett, would meet with due attention. Freest
the collision of such sentiments, he trusted that they
%%mild be better able to form an opinion as to the
measures most proper to be adopted. Ile denied
that there was any breach of faith with the pubiic
creditor, although the duties upon exports And im-
ports, and upon tonnage, were excluued from thus!
War Taxes mortgaged for twenty years. Ihe
most that could be advanced was, that the
contraaor had a diminished security, but that
remainitg security was amply sufficient. He
also denied, that the faith of Parliament was, in
any measure, pledged to abide at all events by any
proposal entered into between the Chancellor
of the Exchequer, and the Contractors of the Loan,
' so as to preclude all examivation and discussion in
that House of Parliament. He considered that it
was, in itself, a step, rash and improvident, that the
duties upon tonnage, and upon exports and imports,
should be mortgaged and pledged to the Loan
Contradors. The duty upon tonnage, in particular,
was originally and professedly imposed by the late
Mr. limas a mere temporary war tax, in order to
pay for the expenses of convoys. The ship-owners
had therefore telt themselves aggrieved, when they
found this war tax was to be continued after
the conclusion of peace. For his own part,
he approved of the system of our Naviga-
tion Laws, to which we were indebted for much
of our naval superiority ; and he considered it
I therefore unwise to submit to a relaxation of that
..systeass. He denied what had fallen from the
Noble Lord (Grenville) that the opposition to the
late Ministers' measures respelling the Roman Ca-
tholics hair arisen from clamour ; on the contrary,
he believed this opposition to be the result of sound
political good sense ; and that a great majority of
the people of this country had disapproved of the
measures adopted, and in contemplation, by that
Noble Lord and his colleagues, for making farther
and farther concessions to the Roman Catholics.

use f.arl of LAUDERDALE condemned the
novel argument which had been introduced by the
Noble Lord, that Loan Contra&ors were to look to
the subsequent deliberations of the House of Lords,
as a guide to tl.cm in making their Loans wilt. Go-
vernment. TLe Noble Lords had not forgotten the
circum,tance of the late Mr. Pitt being under the
necessity cf making a 'mind Loan within the year,
and that lie felt himself bound to central with
Boyd and Co., although upon terms more disad-
vantageous to his country; and that in consequence
of his faith being pledged to these gentlemen, in
case he should be obliged to make another contrail
within the yea. Tne Noble Lord proceeded
also to deny the charge, Insinuating that any
ism“, ..i.soypd by the late Ministry.

This, With other chifltes. equally Me, *I to Ole
late Bill brought in on behalf at :Ile Inman CnthA•
tics, had drifted, it was true, a twelent teinfrlPT
charm*. But he airealy charged die prermt
Ministry with exciting these clamours. and ;lour-
cirlarly at Northampton. where the present Chan-
cellor of the Exclieti,r had ode!: ssed his Constitu•
eats. intimating the loss he had sustained in conse-
quence of his adherence to the interrrs of the Pro-
testant Church, and his relni his profession,
to accept of the office he now holds. It was, in fad',
the present Ministry who had excited the clamour
of danger to the Protestant Establishment. In-
II handbills had also been put into circa-
Utica) lot the same purpose ; he could not help tom•
paring these proceedings with those outrageous
ones which had taktn place under the guidance and
influence of Lord George Gordon. He must.
however, be permitted to say, that the principles on
which the late Ministry had gone out of office, were
such as chewed their regard for the Constitution of
their country, and a respell to the religious opinions
of others, which would ever do them honour.
The Earl of BUCKINGHAMSHIRE rose for
the purpose of defending the conduEt of the Noble
Ein I ( VN•estniortland) when he was Laid Lieutenant
of Ireland, (tam the charge s.l,ich had been brought
againq him by the Noble Lord (Grenville ) lie
deided also that any appeal had been made to the
mob by the present Mini-ters ; but he would as-
sure those Noble Lords who had brought
forward this charge, that whenever, or by whcm•
soever, any attempt should be made to carry
the measure of Catholic concession beyond what
had already been done, and to alter its present basis,
that Noble Lords w.:uld not be found wanting, in
Parliament, to oppose it ; and so also would the
country at large. With regard to the present
amendment, it was no breach of the public faith ;
the contrallors themselves had never made such a
complaint ; and he was the more confirmed in his
assertion, because, on the contrary supposition, the
Noble Lord (Grenville) would, doubtless, have de-
clared his intention of vo;ing against the Amend.
meet.

Lord GRENVILLE, in explanation, said, that
the Noble Earl, (Westmoreland), when Lord Lieu-
tenant of Ireland, had recommended, from the
Throne, to open the way for the admission of Bo-
man Catholics, to every Civil Office in Ireland, (42
excepted), and to all Commissions in the Army, with
the exception of Generals on the Staff; and having
done so, the Noble Earl and hi: Friends had no
right to charge him and his late colleagues in office
with an attempt to undermine the Protestant Esta-
blishment of the Country.
Earl of BUCKINGHAMSHIRE explained what
had passed in the Parliament of Ireland, in 1799.
The late measure which had been attempted to be
carried through both Houses, went much farther
than that which was proposed to the Parliament of
Ireland. The measure lately brought forward, was
introduced upon limited grounds, but in its progress
shifted its aspe.ft, pad appeared to go to an unli-
mited extent.

Earl SPENCER cnrnplained, that very rndue
means had been rented to, in older to raise a
clamour amongst tla. mob. The Riglit Honour-
able Gentleman (Mr. Perceval) in his address to
his Constituents at Northampton, had used lan-
guage tending to create a false alarm for the safety
of the Protestant Constitution. In consequence of
this, the Noble Earl said, that when he was at
Northampt,n, in the course of last week, he found
the town filled with hand-bilk, and the prvle's
minds infl trnrd with the wo,t. sillcnt party
c:;,.tests. o.re of those hand-bills had the,e words
for its running title : Popery, or no Popery ?
1:1-it is the question."--Other information 11.-‘d
r•a:hed hint roi this subjeft, and which, on a future
occssi he should niore particularly men:ion to
the Hons-.

L•>rd HARROWBY explaine3, and defended
the condi:it of the Right Hon. Gmtbanan ( Mr.
Perceval), who in that House had not th : p lwer of
defending himself. 'flint 'tight Iloa. Gantleman
had not attempted to raise a senseless el inaour, but
had sounded a well-founded alarm ; and is must
surely be allowed him, as wall as uthns, to aft
agreeably to his soundest judgment.
Lord HOLLAND contrasted the conduit of some
of the present Ministers, who had formerly encou-
raged the Catholic claims, with their recent conduit
in opposing them. He lamented that there had
been also Unlit' religious charaaers who had actively
stood forward to excite this clamour. The Noble
Lord proceeded to animadvert on the conduit of
those who assumed the title of tithe shipping inte-
rest." and who would have sacrificed the national
policy to theit own selfish interests. 11., considered
this amended Bill as being neither more nor less than
passing a compliment to the prejudice: 01 a few of
these ship owners. His Lordthip then pro( eedeJ to
condemn the conduit of the present Ministry, who
had bad recourse to misrepresentation and cla-
mour, on the subjeft of the late Bill.
Lord HA RHO WM; and Earl SPENCER seve-
rally said a few words in explanation ; after
the House, without a division, went into a Committee
on the Bill, and having gone through and agreed
to the several clauses, the House was resumed, and
the Report received. Adjourned at 12 o'clock.

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