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take into his consideration there was r.oasirierade
distinction between the Catholics of ancient times,
and those of the precut oleic. He was uusilling,
to avoid any upportuuity of sickuovrkslging, that
amongst the people of this persusisiou there have
been rue's of the greatest celebrity, and of the
greatest virtue, there have here iu' that person-
Sion such good aud enlightened men as Fent.-
lon. fie did not blame a man for entertaining
opinions different from himself, iu any speculative
point of faith ; but he could not assent so fur to
the freedom of thought, as to encourage that sect
who believed that salvatiou belonged outs to them-
selves. and who also asserted the supremacy of
the Pope, in direct contradiction to site preroga-
tive claimed by the Crown. For so long, then,
restrictions ottglit to coutiuue. to !dictate them
from that freedom winch might be detrimental to
the interests of a Protestant establialiutent.
The Bishop of • BA MGOR was of opinion that the
claim of the Catholics expressed in their Petition
was inadtilisiiible,;. on the ground of that Petition
claiming ten much. It would become the consi-
deration of that House that too inn-.h facility al. Quid
not be given to any systeiti or set of men that proba-
bly might.haree's in their power to hear down the
rules aud authority of the Church'. The Church of
England had no dispositinn to withhold toleration
from any religious system whatever; bat the nes-
went you admitted the Catholics to all the inunu-
uities of the Protestatite, he must contend you
went beyond toleration; extension and toleration
itself ought to be blotted out from our statute
hook. Ile thought it the duty of every man who
was, called upon to decide due quiwtion, to o-
vestigate the particular tenets of the Cathodes,
as our ancestors haul done in former times. Now
there was oue objection which he must declare
had considerable influence 'soon his mind, and
that was, it was believed by the Professors of the
Church of Rome, an oath was not biuding upon
their consciences. lie did not mean to say hut in
the worst times of Popery there were men of ho-
nour in all Catholic eotuitries. In France there
had been men of the utmost tenaciousness of prin-
ciple. tad whose consciences would have been
startled at the least departure From rectitude. But
be deprecated the Catholic definition of an oath.
By then it was said, that every human promise or
oath must depend on the prudence of its fulfil-
ment, and toe fnltilineut must depend ou its You-
veuieney. It ems similar to the explanation which
the Romans exec of the wool ha/statues. Still the
explatiatins awe e &abided to, iii regard to an oath,
was daugerous to the first principles nr society.
Coofwsiss. of sins amid absolution were of a very
dmigerous tendency, because nothing could more
powerfully -obvert the principle of allegiance. By
the Catholics, it was also maintain-OJ, the Pope
was the Supreme Head of the Church ; aud on
this subject he could not help noticing the obser-
vancs* of Dr. Milner, who, in a particular work,
bad said, that the supremacy which had been
pieced in the Crown of England was usurpation ;
and who bad further remarked, that the election
of a Bishop, by Henry VIII. was sacrilegious.
Upon the same grounds a division of parishes
aught be deemed sacrilegious. lu confirmation of
.this doctrine, Bishops in Ireland have heal created
by a bull of the Pope; that Bishop has proceeded
to the division of his own parishes, and in the
same way appointed clergy of his own accord.
1445 next adverted to the power of cxenininuoica-
tion, and observed, that it was stronger than the
sword, when used by the hand of justice. There
was a book lett ly published, which retorted upon
our church fur its having corrupted the pure trans-
lation of the Bible. The List of Peerage there
given wen also to prove that there could be no
English Clinrub—there could be no church without
a pastor—no pastor without a Bishop—no Bi-
shop without * Metropolitan—and no Metropolitan
without the power of the Pope. He could not
avoid the opportunity of giving his best advice to
the Iteverimil Prelate who had supported this
measure, that I's would not misunderstand the
cause of religion and of christianity. The Catho-
lics appeared to him in a view somewhat suspi-
cions as to their loyalty. He was of opinion that the
beat signal by wheels they were enabled to convince
vs of their siiieelity was, to join with us against
the common emote. The admissibility to officer;
,he allowed, uses of the greatest moinent—that was
the inducement to every exertion amongst every
cuss of iudividuals. lit the profession of the law,
even the lowest Barrister felt the satisfaction of his
distant expectation to appointment ; but, however
willing Ise was to vote for the freerloin of appoint-
ment, he was net therefore to extend it to three
suillions'of pea/oats in Ireland.
Lord Ilueelit resort highly commended the man,
lobo, is these times of importance, should lend his
assistance to the cause now brought forward by the
Catholics of Ireland. It was true that these peti-
tioners came forward of their own accord, aud not
by any intermediation of others. Ile hall no re-
loetance iu declar'aig, that in his opinion this
question ought, in times present. as well as future,
tit be agitated. In maintaining this sentiment, he
and others were likely to be misoesresentesl. They
had to sointend against calumny and prejniice.—
.11f to agitate thief subject wet faction, he was one
of the most factious of Meta. No apprehension
was now to be dreaded, the Pretender way deed,
end the Pope was a prisoner in hale. The Ca-
tholic Churesi. that venerable fabric of antiquity,
its wealth, and its power, were now no more; its
imperiteis head was peeved slown to the alum. and
there bound in adaussantine chains. If reimot
were to resume her sway in debate, it oisuld nut
be contended that ro would .wallow
up every othr conside.stion. The opposers of the
Catholic claims had signified that they did not
facto to depart from ties principles of the Revolu-
tion ; but to say that exclusion and restriction were
the pruniples upon which the Re.olution was
founded. was slows! and Kgetted. Ile con-
ceived that every isstrietion and 11.-a'oility. as to
poiuts of faith, H. COtltlll7y to the preseiples
of the Constitutiori.. 'the folly of an ioditidual
'lied with him ; but the vs ielsceleere and folly of an
aslnsiuistratiou may testify their disgrace to poste-
rity. The Irish Cotholics had u(akuesses and
sites—they sere ca:ta:tteil by strong passion's--
sod were subject to errors, like :ill of their ft llow-
creatures. No Catli,eie could be a NiNzi.tritte or
a General as the law mind stood. iN Europe

anus agriabt tu.. ctha.ito. is Wa, sidkulotis

to abject against a man willing to fight the battles
of his 'smeay. To criticise upon the attributes
of the Deity, was to assume a species of know-
ledge, which did not below g to human individuals.
Earl SYIIIIILOIFL-" My Lords, if it be the cha-
racter of a Papist to deny the consistency of the
Leausistion of the Bible lam one of the greatest
Papists that ever esitsjod. There is a book, u
tninalation, of very unciedt`date, in the British
Museum ; but the sense of it, as appears by the
alterations, is most abominably garbled. It hap-
pens that the ink with which the original was
written is unhappily confounded with the ink of
modern fabrication. so that when one examines that
copy with others at Oxford, there arise three thou-
sand six hundred and odd inconsistencies; which
produce in the Bible that uniformity of which the
Ui.hops eight to be ashamed. I cannot suffi-
ciently revere anti admire the first Reverend Pre-
late who spoke is debate ; I sin attached to him
for his love of philanthropy and patriotism. Ile
was miserably answered by the Priest who spoke
last iu the present discussion. I think it was scan-
dalous for that Priest, in the course of his speech,
to take an opportunity of perverting the written
opinion of others. My Lords, he hits no right to
term that disojection, which any people thick they
have a right to demand as justice. The Irish
Cathulics gave en unreserved acquiescence to a
paper written by English Catholics, aid lifter we
have read that paper, I would wish to know what
right we should possess in these times to irritate
three millions, by imputing to them opinions
which they disclaim, and having disclaimed we
hive no right to impute ?" (His Lordship here
stated the purport of a paper signed by the Catho-
lics of both countnes, and the benevolent senti-
ments continued therein.) There is not a single
principle, my Lords, which this paper does nut re-
spect. It may be objected that it is not signed by
the population of Catholics in Ireland, but only by
a few ; the only answer I think proper to re-
turn to such en observation is, litea it would be ea-
sily remedied, by trying every Catholic before his
Clergyman with an oath."
Lord INIttLGRAVE objected going into Commit-
tee, because is could only. tend to protract that
discussion, which must be injurious to the cause
of the Catholics. He took occasion to advert to that
great man who had been mentioned early in the
debate, but lie could assure the House that the
great man alluded to, iuding many obstacles in
the way of this measure, resolved not to disturb
its quiet. This had not been the conduct of the
Noble Baron. He never saw this subject in
that view in which the Noble Baron seemed
to view it ; but if he saw it so when in office,
why did he not prosecute it, and not compro-
mice the advantage of the Catholics for the purpose
of keeping his own situation ? If lie did not,
he ought to state the differentu between these
times, and the period of his own Administration.
He thought bringing the petition forward, at this
time. tended to irritate the lower orders of people
in Ireland, and to make them disaffected. He
wished it to be understood, that it was not his
intention to deliver any opinion upon the Ca-
tholic Question ;. but only he deemed it an impro-
per time for its discussion. However friendly to the
measure, however laudably zealous the promoters
of this petition might be, their conduct moat be.
in his judgment, liable to be censured as an act
of great indiscretion.
The Earl of BUCKINGRAMAIIIRF expressed his appre-
hension of the growing ialueitee of Ireland in the English
Parliament, and of the growing influence of the Catholics in
returning Members to serve in it. In the county of Tip-
perary that 141111E11re was so predominant, two-thirds of the
Electors who voted on the late Election were Roman Catho-
lics, and be was confident that it was at the present moment
the prevailing interest is three of the four Province' of
Ireland. The Noble Lord them quoted passages from Or.
Milner's pamphlet, alleged publications from Ma)nooth
College, reciting the forfeited estates, atilt a list of massa-
cres and persecutions, and the names of those who bad suf-
fered ou account of their religios ; and also an extract
from Cost's Catholic Magazine, with a vitro to chew that
the Roman Catholics retained prejudices and principles for-
merly imputed to them ; and concluded with sleclnring, as
his opinion, that a provision seem to be mode for the Ro-
man Catholic Clergy of Ireland, and that the residency of
the Clergy In general, by improving the civilization of the
country, would do more good than the grain of the Catholic
claims.
The Duke of NORFOLK paid a handsome ronsplinsent to
Doctor Milner. Ile then proceeded to urge the severity of
the disabilities upder which the Riimau Catholics now la-
hour, in illustration of winch he noticed the case of the five
Irish Roman Catholic Noblemen sow iu Leine, and that of
the Karl of Kenmore particularly, also, although competent
to vote on the election of a Member for the Honor of COW-
mum, and pustiessing interest in the county of Kerry to de-
ride that election, bad not a voice on the cleeti tttt of the Irish
Reprearittative Peers, and was of coarse on,. ;resented in the
Hume of Lora. This anomaly, he said, inerlit to he done
away; and he was coofident, the motion+, if grouted, would ef-
teetotally conciliate that country.
1.001 E.? i E made as excellent speech, in which he
said that it seas the duty of that plisse, as the Hereditary
COMISPIIOI.% uf the Crown, to serve the Crown accordiug to
thew opinion. He did not mean to dictate to the Crown, nor
to divest it of its prensgatise, hot after the many concessions
made to the Catholics, he did nut see upon what principle
of conaietency the Howse could refuse to go into a Commit-
tee loom the Petition.
Lord Ii AR/Ca./BURY, is • speech of considerable length,
regretted that the Noble Baron ((;eenville), who bad agreed
with Mr. Pitt as the subject of the Catholic claim, had
not also followed his example is nut pressing them when he
found them impeacticable.--He admitted, that his objection
was tint to the time, but was founded upon
did not mean to say that he objected to the Catliollas upon
secant of the odious opinions impish d to them, opinions
which lie believed hi his heart that the majority of them
lover eatertained.—He objected, becalms the religion was
incompatible with the Low and CorMitutior of the country.
—l4 that Constitution we must have a Prutestast King.
amt from thence be proceeded to argue, that the confidential
fonmsellure of the Crown, and its practical Acetate, must
also he Protestant; sod that the Roman Catholics, by re-
fusing to take the Oath of Supremacy, and to subscribe to
tome umber articles which the Constitution required, cz.
ludr.l themselves from these rights which they now claim.
I ord H u I. 1.• ND sever experienced more embarrassment in
addressing their Loreish ips, than on the discussion of Hi is great
iorition, becalms be felt he had so refute uncharitable objec-
t•nne, which tended to calunsuiate the common from of the
:louse, and libelled the age and country in which be lived.—
ft use not his int. mons to follow the opposers of this mea-
sure through the se:wrist= route they bed taken of thew-
loverl and polemical controversy. He should FORAM him-
self to its practisal cousideratisitt, and view it as it affected
the ante snit condition of Ireland. He rhombi consider it
as it •flicted the destiny of four millions of subjects, and
ova-third of the population of the Empire. Much stress
Lad been laid Oil the policy adopted by our ancestors, to
guarding. by penal restrictions, the Protestaist Establishment
tions subverviou ; and the Noble Xecretary of State made a
great doiviah, when be asked, Did his great hero, Kiag DV-
It:usi, relax or repeal those fundamental priseiplts of the
Was there any similitude in the hiatiov of the two
periods, either with respect to lb* &stare of the dangers

erltic'h dos tamed the eeensb7, or to Are eatedithon of Hie
Catholidat Ltd There then misted a diepated
sucteesioes, and
.the Catholics were pees and degraded ;
whilst they were now powerful is numbers, rich in wealth,
string its tateuts, and, in every clezree, conopeteut to raoirr
Important merviree to their country. Ile deprecated the
cataract of attributing tenets mid principles hi the greet
body of the Catholics, upon the credit of anoliyanine sad
suatilateft political:rms. Highly respectable as tr,ts
tie cha-
rector of Dr. ?teaser, certainly, lie reprobated the prac-
nee of arriving at euneinsions biotite, to Cheek sarid feelings
of a greet classification of sulhjocts, upon the statemert,
of
shy person. But at least it was far those who attributed
swell motives and tenets, trot to liui.t bit toithurity to a err.
twin fact ; but when they founded guy upiniem upon • part
of his testimony, they wire houtel to hike the (valeta,
and schwaledge him se eoiieet evidence, even where he
was at variance c ith those who were so fond of quoting
The Noble Seciretar, argned that this measure u as not hooked
fur by the people of that conntry, and the reason was, that such
• deserilotioa of Frames no interest ufaoy hind in its atlas.-
went. What interest had the meanest sailor in the fleet in the
ultimate encores of ...rreat naval contests! Why Jid his heart
bound with joy when he heard nwaition made of the illus.
trions Nehan, or the gallant Howe 1/id he net feel the
proud character of as I:n6.l:Aaiun, aid that a portion of
the glory tamed by them, ri fleeted upon auJ raised his
emintry to a more elevated' scale is the fate of tuitions,
in
want of 'itch a noble stioinli., must the poor Irish, a Nether
in the cabin er the hotel, feel indignant, that whilst the
venues to honour sail preferments are open to all these
who are of a different religion, the 'Squire or the Grotto-
emu who is associated with bins in religions faith, is to.
tally deprived of every right and every blessing, of every
opportunity to serve their country, either by their talents or
their bravery. That they stand, in the language of Scrip-
ture, like the solitary Man Oa w horn not a drop of the
`heavenly rain ran fall. The Noble-Brion, in an eloquent
manner, commented un the ieconsistencies in the lie.-
silents of the oppiewra of the catholic claims, and adverted
to the wish if those to bold the possession of political
power cheap, at the moment that they were most anxious
to possess and to hold power themselves. He denied
that it was the fear of Popery alone induced the peo-
ple of this conntry to withdraw their allegiance from the ra-
iled family ; and cnittended, that their cruise and final guilt
were not that solitary act of popery ; but that James the
Stroud had effected what his brother had attempted, aided
and abetted as he was by the High Church Prelates iii his
la-ermine assumption of a dispeusing power over the laws
sml roustitutitin of the realm. The Noble Baron wok a
most able retrospect of the history of those unparalleled acts
of celd-loluoded hal burdy, which constitute.' the penal auti-
catkohe rode, and concluded by declaring, that as the claims
of the Catholics rested on the bales of indubitable right, he
would never be sway. 41 from Orin; La derided support, we
any digitise intincenieuts of reason or expediency.
Lord .tereLelllo regretted the renewal of this sishiect,
after the sery NU and recent opinion their Lordships had
pronounced on it, in the year titoS. Ile thought that the ad-
mission would contravene the fundamental principles of the
Constitution, and concluded by expressing his opposition to
the minima for the House resolving itself into a Committee.
Era I of Sur rol.K viudiesied the character and conduct of'
the Roman Catholics of lrelaud and Great Britain from the
;rapacious thrown upon them by their enemies. He gave his
hearty support to the motion.
Lord Gete•tm.s: briefly replied, and answered the ob-
jections of the Noble Lords who opposed .he mutton. lie
gave credit to the Noble Secretary for his la idable absti-
nence from the vile resort of personality. He considered
that some of the Noble Lords had departed from their
wonted delicacy and candour, yes ascribing motives and upi-
-04111111 to min upon no better authority than scraps of pitiful
controversy. He couteaded that if the I.egislature should
frame no oath of supremacy to the purport of the one stated
by the Noble Secretary, there ass out a Catholic in the
realm would object to take it. Ile trusted that the uniform
teepee of his life was the fullest proof of his sincerity to this
great cause. If his actions did mot illustrate the fince of
that sincerity, it was usel. se to stivert to words fur the put-
pose or making the impression
The House thee dis hied, whist the numbers were,
For the motion for goat% holy a Committee 51
Weak., . - . . - - 23
74
95
b 6
—•161
Majority 117
At r r O'CLOCK, this morning, the House Adjourned
until Huteday sad.

Aptubt it
Proktut

HOVE OF COMMONS.

ANNVITIEs,

...... _ .
On the motion of the Cu•ocELLon of the Exenetlt~r n,
the 'louse formed itself into & Committee on his Resolutions,
to allow Stockholders to purchase .inanities.
Mr. Ti ERN r.s dl4l not perceive it was necessary to deter-
mine the measure before the Limn, us he did nut conceive it
soled he an Withal-timid to the Contractors, no which se-

count he tt want! that the Cortututte would rise and report

progress.
Mr. PERCEY AI. suppotted the mensnre, on the ground
thnt the Stockholdt r would be recur. 11, nail that it would be
the means of increasing the Sinking Funii, and of lowering
the Natiorul Debt 4 and that it woo necessary the awasore
should Ire carried operably into est:motion, foe persons wish-
ing to become Contractors desired to know on what founda-
tion they contracted.
After a desultory conversation between Lord H. PETTY,
Mr. HEIIII4sOIt, Me. BILIDELPII, Mt. DAN IRE EIIDU%
Mr. TIERN EY, and the CIIARCELLOIII of the Esr est-
odU ER, the Resolutions were recently agreed to,
any amendment.
The Howse then resumed, aid the Report was ordered to
be brought op on Monday next.
RENEWAL OF THE CHARTER OF THE IRISH

by a bull
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lie next
l• ton. and
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our Our(
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Lord
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its weal
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stele ti
be coot
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the pri
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