The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1825-06-28 00:00:00

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had been for come time attentively listening to hear in what man-
ner the lion. Member proposed to Ming his history of the commerce
all over Europe to bear upon the subject before the House. (A
laugh.) But though it might be difficult to eay positively, he
thought the line of argument adopted by the lion. Member had no
very strict reference to the Bill before the House. (A laugh.)
Mr. ROBERTSON wished to show that the commerce of the
country had of late years diminished, instead of increasing. The
official value of the exports in 1815, wss 60 millions, and in 1022,
53 millions, leaving en apparent Increase on the official value cif
3 millions ; but the actual value of imports at these periods was for
the former 41 millions, and for the latter 311 millions, 'hewing a
decrees: of 5 millions.
Mr. Secretary PEEL rose to interrupt the lion. Member. This
might be a very good line of argument on the subject of the-Navi-
gation Laws; but the Hon. Member would recollect, it was the
Combination lmws that were before the House; and he could not
perceive any connecting link likely to unite his observations with
the conclusion he might be expected to come to. Indeed, in a
certain mock debate, he (Mr. Peel) had read, a speaker was intro-
duced, discussing the state of the Phoenicians, fir the purpose of
elucidating the American war (a laugh), and, perhaps, on the same
principle, the Honourable Member's arguments might be thought
to bear on the subject. (A laugh.) However, he wished to sub-
mit to the Honourable hieniber'e consideration, that the Combina-
tion and not the Navigation Laws were the question at issue.,
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. ROBERTSON resumed—There we.s no mode of determin-
ing the rate of wages, except by the demand for operations. High
wages did not confer happiness, but on the contrary, by encouraging
idleness, occasioned want and misery to workmen and their
families. If we wished to meet foreign nations in articles of com-
merce and manufacture, the law now proposed would put it out of
our power to compete with them.
Mr. 11U3IE thought the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Wallace)
had somewhat over coloured his view of the state of the country,
as it regarded the disputes between operatives and their employers.
He, therefore, felt bound to notice his observations, and first, he
objected to the Honourable Gentleman's proceeding in never once
adverting to the possibility of a combination being formed among'.
the masters. The Honourable Gentleman Appeared disposed to
favour the one class at the expense of the other, and on that ac-
count, he (Mr. Hume) felt inclined to receive his observations
' under certain limitations. Farther, he differed entirely with the
lionoursale Gentleman on the subject of the illegality of all com-
binatione; for certainly it should not be forbidden to men or
masters to form associations relative to several branches of trade,
such as the hours of work, and many other things of importance to '
the manufacturing interests. While he was anxious to leave in
the hands of the employers and their workmen the right of dis-
posing of thei: capital and their labour to the beet advantage, he
was tree to allow abuses might exist, and it was theii duty to
remedy them. He could assure the Honourable Member, that if
any advantage were afforded to the men over the masters in the Act
of last Session, it lead resulted from the imperfect manner in which
the,Bill had bon drawn up, and not from the intention of the
Committee, what was
,disposed to do equal justice of both parties.
With regard to the examples of combination which had since oc-
curred, lie did not think them at all deserving of the epithets be-
. stowed on then, ty the lion. Gent.; and he thought on a perusal of
the evidence on tke tableof the llouse,it would be found the character
given of these associations had not been deserved. In the case of
the paper-makes, no violence had been resorted to by the men.
The masters in London had refused to give the advanced wages
which had been snowed in Kent. Indeed the whole case made in
favour of the opetatives : there hail been no increase of wages fur
the last three yeaw and a half ; the workmen demanded an increase
equivalent to an addition of three shillings a week for their labour,
and which was filly warranted by the raised prices of the necessa-
ries of life. This demand was at once and cheerfully acceded to in
Kent, but refused by the employers of Hertfordshire and London,
and a strike in consequence took place. With regard to the coop-
ers, things were nearly as favouraele. The shipwrights had com-
mitted no acts of violence. With them, the question was respecting
a regulation alleged to have existed twenty years. It was no ques-
tion of wages, sad if any blame existed it attached to the masters.
who had introduced a new practice in the trade for the purpose of
' putting down the Union Society. The men had accordingly de-
, dined to work under these new regulations. On the 90th May,
the operatives offeree to go into the yard of Mr. Gordon, but were
' refined employment unless the Society were broken up. Last
Saturday, the worktr.en proposed to return to their labour in the
yards of Messrs. Wigrsm and Greene, and those gentlemen were
willing to receive them back, but the other masters would not per-
mit it. It was extremely hard the men should be blamed,
when their employers were the culpable parties. Under bitch
circumstances it was toe much for the Honourable Gentleman
to lay blame on the men for tyrranny and cruelty. A due
attention had not been paid to the petitions of the mechanics;
here were 97 petitions against the re-enactment of the Combination
Laws ; these petitions came from no less titan one hundred thou-
sand men, all praying to be heard before the Committee, and
stating that now a better understanding was beginning to prevail
between the masters and the men ; was it fair (asked the Honour.
able Member) that letters from the masters to the Right Honour-
able the Home Secretary should be noticed and paid attention to,
whilst the solemn petitions of the rnenlshould be, like so much
wastepaper, unnoticed and disregarded? (Hear. hear.) A better
. and more mild feeling seemed to pervade the men ; there was now
less violence in their proceedings. Was it nothing that the cha-
racter of the strikes was now different from what they had formerly
been ? Now all was public—secret oaths were no longer taken.—
He was free to admit the faults of the operatives, but begged the
House to keep in recielection that the masters were in some degree
culpable. It had been objected to the operatives, by the Right
lion. Gentleman (Mr. Wallace), that their proceedings were
marked by a formidable regularity, and that their conduct was
gelded by certain fixed rules. If the Right Hon. Gentleman had
attended their meetings, lie would most unquestionably have given
to them a different character. It had been urged against them that
they had their presidents, and their secretarial, and their com-
mittees. Now he (Mr. flume) thought that if any one thing more
than another were in favour of the operatives, it was the marked
regularity, and the extreme accuracy of their rules. Some of these
rules might, it was true, be absurd, but (said the Hon. Member)
this is an imputation from which we ourselves are not free ; and
nothing can be more common than that we should one day peas a
decree and on another revoke it as absurd. (Hear, and a laugh.)
He was free to admit also that some of their laws might be con-
tradictory; then was it fair not to give them an opportunity of
reconsidering them ; and he was convinced that had that opportu-
nity been afforded to the mechanics, not one of the objectionable
by.laws would now remain on their books. In his opinion much
of the outcry and disturbance was attributable to causes far dif.
ferent from a spirit of turbulence among die men. There were
Laws on the Statute-book for keeping up the price of pro.
' visions. such as the Corn Laws. Now provisions had lately
risen from thirty to sixty per cent. Was it too much that wages
should be regulated accordingly ? Was it too much that the la-
bourer. whose only propert was his time, should be allowed to
make the best bargain of it?? The masters and they had interests
directly opposed ; it was the interest of the one party to give as
little as possible, and of the other to get as much as they could.
The Hon. Member contended that disturbance was not so general
as had been represented, for in nine cases out of ten, the masters
had consented to the terms proposed to them by the men ; he
thought the House would have done better if they had not proceeded
I to print the es idence, and by so doing, brand certain persons
through the country. lie that day got a letter, saying that some
; portions of the evidence were false, and in one particular instance, I
, he was assured that the testiniony of a witness setting forth that
oaths had been administered, binding certain men to commit mur-
der, was false, for that no such oaths had been either administered
or taken. When such contradictions as these existed, would it not
; be right so examine some of the accused persons before the commit-
, tee? (Hear.) But there were some facts come to light which it
. was of importance to have known. It appeared that the masters of
Glasgow had offered 1,2001. to procure evidence against the opera-
, lives, and that on the evening before some men were to be punished
i for acts connected with combination. Applications to that effect
had been made to them on the part of the masters. He entreated
'the House, therefore, to attach no weight to the Glasgow evidence,
and to look on it merely as an es.parte statement, inasmuch as'
none of those accused before the Committee had been examined.
The evidence was all on one side. Now with respect to Dublin, it
' was true that some acts of violence had been perpetrated there;
still they had not increased within the last year, and trade was now,
' and had been for some time, in an evident state of improvement.
The same objection which applied to the Glasgow evidence applied
also to all the Irish evidence. He hoped they would therefore dis-
card oil such, and act only where both parties were examined. The
Hon. Member then proceeded to read the following extract from
the Report, where it (speaking of the 6th George IV.) says:—
" The first object of the Act in question was the repeal of all the
statutes which were in force against combination at the period of its
enactment. In the wisdom of this repeal the opinions entertained
' by your Committee fully coincide; and considering the partial
effect of those statutes, as well as their admitted insufficiency to the
ends for which they were intended, so tar from recommending the
re-enactment of them, they should deem it a measure of objection-
able severity towards the workmen, against whom they chiefly
operated."
That being the opinion of the Committee, be called on them to act
on it, and if the resolutions of last year were properly construed
they would be in accordance with the expressed wish of the Com-
mittee. As the present Bill stood, the masters were bound by no
tie ; for, suppose they casne to a determination not to give their men
more than half their usual wages, and ultimately starved them into
a compliance, what relief, he asked, had the unfortunate men under
• the present Bill ? (Cries of Hear, hear.) If the masters adopted
such a course, must not the men naturally meet, and form counter
committees, and, in his opinion, every facility short of violence
should,be afforded them to defeat the unjust machinations of their!
employers. (Hear, hear.) Some corresponding checks should, in
his opinion, be placed to the proceedings of the latter, who, in nine
instances out of ten, had their men under the most perfect control,
both as to the hours of labour and the amount of wages.
He, therefore, Implored the Right Honourable Gentleman
opposite (Mr. Wallace) to introduce some' measure for the pro-
tection of the men. He implored him to consider the effect of
committing the operatives to the mercy of this justice or of that.
If all the cases under the present Bill were to be tried in London,
where the Magistrates had experience and were in the habit of duly
weighing evidence on both sides, then indeed his objection would
be lessened. He thought also that each offence under the Act
' should be more accurately detinee, and that the punishment at.
(ached to them should be fixed. The Right lion. Gentleman said
that it was difficult to define accurately the 'several offences.
If the Right lion. Gentleman felt that difficulty now, how was it to
be expected that a country justice could interi ret the Act so as to
apply it to every possible offence ? (Hear, hear, hear.) How
would the case be, now that punishment could be inflicted on the
evidence of one witness.. The lion. Member, atter some further
remarks as to the impolicy of the intended enactments, expressed a ;
hope that such provisions might be adopted In the Committee as
would mete out equal measure to all parties. (Ilene, hear.)