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T~..

sr the particular interests of those who have been
hitt' - in engaged in phi. trade. Another ar-
gn7. nt. muscled with this part of the subiel.
his taco stated b•Jtool.• authorities, akhough
wit • urged by the Counerl at the Bar. k :141
beet ail-g-A by those for whom I profess great
rcspee, it ts, particularly, a trade which tends to
bent& our navy. As individual, who trek the
trestest anxiety to assist. by every means iu my
p,:vree. thus.• sources by which the supply to the
dtitish navy may he derived, both nn account of

tee s:toistion I fill in the Government of the country,
and soy owe individual trelings, 1 must soy that I
entertsio the "neatest doubts upon this snbjed. If
I have satisfied the House as to the state of the
amailiercial export of this country. aid that the
speasine of Abolition is not likely to produce an
lie materially iojurious to if. I feel doubly jus-
taud to stating, not only that the teduaion of
the number of vessels r nployed upon the African
Trade would i of be injurious to the British Navy,
bin that it would be exceedi igly beneficial to it.
When the Muster Rolls of Liverpool and Bristol
were tai 1 before the House its 1789 (for dote have
been none since sat perio 1, but I sot think any
thing has alt•red the result,) it Api seed chit the
navy hod smiled motel tolly fromili traffic. The
eacurnstauGe of the state f)1 the *AI, •S being TOM
tiered better during the Middle Passat • must, how.
oust., have had its fens but not w full extent

whi:h the Legislature intended It has r. ltinented
the mortality of British seamen. whoweis , inployed
in the Trade. When I cousict 1' what are the
CAMS that chiefly produce this err. tality, I am not
aurpised at the eW et extiosu.e. to the climate
at tile time of colleditig the Slaves ; the dangers
in the expeditions to seek them, the sleeping on
deck, exposed to the air dining night, the severity of
die duty of watching them, have all been musses
which have materially diminished the supply of our
Navy from that particular source. 'L'he severity of
inc blave Captains, and the badness of the air, where
so Many persons are eonined, are additional ceases
too for that source being diminished. It appears,
I say, from the examination of the Mutter Rolls,
that the mortality ..t the Blitish seamen, em-
ployed on the Cast of Africa, as conlyaced with
shoot employed in Coe West India Trade, exclu-
sive 'y. greatly exec( us the mortaiity of the latter.
Many one tell me that such a diminution by
death can be conducive to the increase of the Bri-
tish n..vy?—Upon this subject. I may notice not
Only the lou by death, but the discharge of persons
Orem the service of the navy, by inability un ne-
ediest of bad health, after they have entered into
Ni, Majesty's service. Upon the whole, I may
s.#y, that the ships so employed, have not furnished
a sin4le man for the service; but that, oa the conltaxy •
the nu m'oer w bo might have readered tl.eir assistance,
in the defence of their country, has been greatly
di:ninished. That tra le has abstracted that scarce,
from which the Navy might have been furnished.
Yet tee are told, that the Navy could not Is) main-
tained if it was not by the crews which arrive in
these shit' from Africa!! If that were the case,
it would furnish a pretty good proof of what that
trade really is, whets we findthem so eager to leave
t.. In ot;ier cases, the anxiety is to desert from
His Majesty's ships in order to colas late the mer-
*haat movies. Upon these grooms& I dscretore
PIWIEIe, that with a view to the capital. the
tonnage, the number of seamen employed in
the Trade. the increase of our Navy, nothing
is to be apprehended from toe Abolition. W.:
next come us consider the state of property in
the WOK Indies. It has been said, that in this too,
a great loss is likely to be sustained, and that it is
impossible to maintain it even to its present extent,
without fresh importations. It is said, that the pre.
strut degree of cultivation could not be supporttd,
on account of the great and perpetual decrease, oc-
casioned by deaths amongst the slaves. Before I
tto iato any general rtiSOrililg or statements of any
ra,As winch may be culleeed frs:m the experience of
other coanot:es, I should wish to examine a

little how this as..ertion stands in respea to our
islands in the West Indies. Previous to the year
1760, we have returns, and also in 1792, a cal-
ealation was made by Mr. Pitt, which, I believe,
duced universal cot:viclion, end the result was,
t!,:st the decrease by deaths WAS gradually diminish-
tn4, and that there was t.•ason t.i Mieve. that by
te+r• and minaret-tent, nature in the West In-
dl-et, as well as in other paits ,if the world, could

se..th her own ends. if not defeated by sets of •io-
lence and alai-treatment." Here the Noble Viscount

enured into a cal, ulasism of the comparative de-
case of deaths in the several West India Islands,
'in proportion to the clever of len:ency towards the
Slaves. This, he said, he could pre from the &o-
il:um-As turroshed by tie Plantas. themselves.
The deci,,ise, he said, Las gradually dimin:sb-
0, so that in some of the Islands the births
mid deaths Lad beeorna nearly' equal. These
ealculatinns were tram 11:-.:.er the disadvantage
of ilcludirg the newly irr.;),Arted slaves, so that
it might fairly he in/cried, that the number of births
acually exceeded the deatils very considerably.
Wren new importatiers Mined.. it winfien be made
evid:nt, that the population will flourish. In North
America the number of Slaves amounted t 0.20,788,
and caking an average of three years, ending in
.1404, it has been ascertained, iltat the number of
deaths amounted to 1763, and the number of

►irth. to 1780, 110 that 070 births exceeded the

deaths by 17. This includes the deaths of the
irewly-imported Slaves. Inc returns maeht.twon
this point are most satisfadory, as they. unntatn the
number of Slaves imported. These were 22.5. sod
15 born ; deduaing these, there would remain
1.;73 ; so that the births might be said to exceed
the de .t2ls by 7$ am *ally, upon the old stock. There
can be no dAtibt, therefore, that the population could
be mairtained .0 the Islanss, particularly in Bermu-
da, and the Bahama Islands. Now, I would wish to
call th• attention of the fitruie to these fadsos bear-
ing upon tire question. I cave stated generally, that it
there were not causes arising from bad manage-
ment, nr other circumstances. it could not be
thought. that the population of these islands
would not increase in the same manner, as in other
quarters of the woad. Is has been stated by Mr.
King. that if the Slaves of North America in-
. creased in therspid pryponion they have bees doing
. for these last 10 years. they would double theii. po-
. palatine, is t!.e cfause if '24) year.. We know
'that in St. Heleras, siuse tie Lst India Company

have determined (on acco'tnt of the inhumanity,
of the treatment of Sieves havitin been represented
to them) to Abolish the trade in that Island, the
population. which feet formerly decreased, has at-
wally iner iased. Then what are the censer if the
dimieution of the Slave: in the %Vest Indies ? Is
it that the climate of America is more healthy,
chest the popui 'eon there increases ? No. It is
well known. that a cold climate is most prejudiced!
to Negrnes ; so that one would thin:, t!-.at
that ot North America would he rather unfa-
vourable. Is it the nature of the labour in the
cnitiv.ation? It has been ascertained that the cul-
ture of sugar. in the %Vest India islands, is more
favourable than the cultivatern of rice in North
America, on account of the damps. Arguments
have been used upon the disproportion of the sexes,
and the dissoluteness of manners. As to the first
of these points it might be observed, that the
Planters had it in their power to afford a
remedy. 1 am sorry to hear that all the warn-
ings that hive been given upon the suhjed of
the disproportion of die sexes have not had their
effea Parliament had made their declarations so
early as the year 1783, and yet nothing has been
done by thosewhn deal in slave: to reetity the errors
they had observed." Here ,'e Noble Viscount en-
tered into a statement of the proportion of males
to females, in the several West India Islands :
With respell to the dissoluteness of manners, and
the iodiscrimante connection betwixt the sexes, I
think that a remedy might be effected, by an at-
tendance to the euucation of the slaves, and the
promotion of marriage and good behaviour. That
degree of superintendence was always the duty of
the Planters, but after the abolition, it would be-
come their interest to observe it. The meastare
proposed, therefore, not on:y puts an end to the
traffic with Africa, but ameliorates the situation
of the Slaves in the West ladies, in regard to their
happiness, comfort, and moral duties. There are
various kinds of mal-treatment which ate practised
by the Planters, which in future they will make it
their study to avoid, and among others, bad food,
and want of cleanliness amongst the Negroes.—
These r. ere completely in their power to rectify, by
aril-ding the ne rind enforcing the necessity of the
other. %Vhen I say this, I mean to throw out no
reelection against the West India Planters them-
sellrs, many of them residing in this country.—
Much was to be attributed to the overseers. Mr.
Long, in his Higuey ql.famai, a, proves, that the do-
mestic female Negroes have more children than those
who are employed upon fens, and here is a proof of
what mid treatment will accomplish, by not over-
straining :hens to perform more than what they can
do with comfort to themselves. By affordiug them
more care, paying them more attention, and be.
stowing more care upon their morals, the Planters
might ultimately more improve the state of the West
India islands, atter the abolition is Accomplished,
than they could do by annual importations. It
has been frequently found, that d inns the half
days, which arc allowed tLeni for relaxation,
during the seven days. they have done more
than double the work they could do when
labouring under the lash of a harbasone and un-
feeling overseer. The women ton, are, in general,
employed in a wax that is shocking to human Ba
nature; no particular care Cr attention is pal tat
those of them who are with child ; this is another'
cause of she depopulation ; the child it, in many in-
stances destroyed before it is born, or else the mo-
ther is prevented from affording her infant that
degree of nourishment which is necessary for its wel-
fare. We all know how tender a woman is at diet
particular period. Many instances of miscarriage
occur among.t them. We are told by the enemies
o tOis measure, that the West India Islands will be
put in a state of revolt. if we agree to the Aboli-
tion ; that it will create a mit it of disaffedion and
rebellion. The preamble to the Hill is particularly
cempleined of, because it declares, that the traffic
in Slaves is c•nit!ary to the dictates of justice and
humanity. Is it necessary, Sir, to tell use Negro,
who is torn Irons his native land, his wife,
his c!Ohltee, And his friends, that that ad of
wllizh tears him from all his for-
, mer endearments in life, is contrary to huma-
nity ? This is a principle which is implanted in
his breast by the great hand of the Almighty.
Yet it is said, it is told them by the preamble of the
Bill! It he cannot see it upon the wounds infiided
on the Lack of his fellow sufferer, if he cannot hear
it in the cries of his fellow shave, are see to suppose
th .t he will reedit in the preamble of a Bill?--(Hear!
near!) Such an argument is futile and • absurd ;
and what is more, too, I may say, that the Planters
and West India Merchants themselves do nut be-
lieve it, or if they do, never was the conduct of
min snore imprudently regulated. After twenty
f years, during which this question has been often
agitated. is the House to be told that all the debates
which have token place, all the motions and resolu-
tions which have been made by the House of Corn.
mons, all the reports that have in consequence gone
forth, declaring that their slavery was contrary to
humanity. have had DO did in inducing that Colln
vision, which is so anxiously, at present, wished to
be avoided in the preamble of a Bill ? Has not Tile
Jamaica Gazette, on various occasions, stated the
very means by which that insurrection might be
produced, by which their plans of revolt might he or-
ganised, and a stimulus and incitement afforded to
the Negroes to carry their operations into effect? Look
at the state of these islands for the last teventy years,
and say is it not notorious, that there never were
so few inunredions. amongst the Negroes, at at the
very time they knew that such an abolition of
this infamous traffic was under discussion.—
But, it has been argued, that the non-importation
of fresh Negroes would tend to impose additional
labour upon the old ones already in the islands ;
but this is a consequence which I am far from
thinking would follow in fad; for is it not well
known, that the newly-imported Negroes are nut
calculated, at least fur a length ot time, to disninish
the labours of those who are actually employed in
clearing and cultivating the new grounds What
source of consolation could h be to the old Negroes
to behold fresh importations of their unhappy coun-
trymen, doomed to endure similar slavery With
themselves? Ile only effeet this could produce, would
be thAt of sowing the seeds of continual insurrection.
lint the prohibition to import fresh Negroes, could
t be fairly adduced as a motive why the old creo
etould revolt. It was proved by experience and

fait, that its those islands, where there was too
re, ular supply a i
fresh Negryes, no nstureee
dot' ever took piece. With rupees to the general
security of the islands, the danger dues not arise
horn those Negroes who have fleen long settled in
them, and :tied to their Masters, but from
those itiaio have been fresh imputed. and were
smerrin,t under recent wrongs. The errs of
the Islane of St. Domingo has been cited by the
Anti-Abolitionists, Ai an example of C alltl3l ; I
Sir, in my turn, would beg leave to cite the events
which took place in that Island, as a warning how
the encourage successive importations ; for is it
not known, that in that ill-fated Island, there
had Ewen unesuelly Urge importations from ethics',
previous to the insurrections and intestine comrno-
'ions which prevailed t Other causes, indeed, might
have cceesperated, and have hid diet,' etre& ; t:.e
passions of men lied been set loose and inlarned,
at the cnieniemeineat of the French Revolt:-
time, threugheut every part of that Empire : hence
St. Domingo became a prey to intestine co:mo-
tions, and was divided into different political par-
ties, each of which in their al n endeevoured to
avail themselves of the assistance of the Blacks ; but
the fresh and large importations hem Africa, which
were carris don during that period, so far from di.
mihishing, tended greatly to increase the danger.
If, indeed, it were proposed by tbepresem measure,
that the Negroes should at once be emancipated,
acknowledge that there would be just reasnu to ap-
prehend scenes of terror; but running of this sort is
in contemplation. It has been stated, that eudre-
Yours have already bee e made to excite the Slaves at
Jamaica into insurreetion, horn the example of et.
Domingo. I allow it pessible, that emissaries frora
the letter island may have been sent to Jamaica ;
but as the best means to render abortive such at-
tempts, I would say, "attach your Negroes of :la-
ma:its to your service by good ti cement and a kind
system ;" at any rate, new imporrations would not
diminish, but rather increase the danger of insurrec-
tion. Experien .e ce nfirms the faa. In Sat inam, warn
a Dutch colony, the Masters mede use of the most
rigorous treatment towards their Sieves, and there
insurredlions broke out ; witereas, in the islands
where the Negroes have been treated wit'a kind
usage, they hive even proteeted their Masters, when
threatened with attack. But, upon this subject, we,
who are advocates for the abolition of this trait:,
have been branded as theorists and enthusiasts,
whilst we have, almost exclusively, teas, and experi-
ence, to allege, in opposition to the objeaiens of the
Anti-abolitionists. But it has been also objetted, that
this measure will also tend to diminish the white
?opulation in the islands, and that it will discourage
those who go out from this country to the islands,
as book-keepers and overseers, with the hope of
procuring plantations and making their fortunes ;
but the expeaation of making large fortunes, cannot
be considered as the main inducement for such
persons to go from this country to the West Indies,
but tether that they may obtain such a competent
provision as they were not so likely to meet with at
home. But, perhaps, it may be tit matter of in-
quiry, whether adequate measures have been adopt-
ed by the colonists themselves to keep up the
white population, and such a Militia as may ba
needed to center:at nee Negroes. list •rie mere Do
'liners of employment. in which the Whites may
be usefully employed in the West Indies, as
an encouragement for them to settle these ?
I think, Sir, that much may be done to encourage
their setilement in these islands, and that a great
deal of what is now pafermed by the Blacks, might
be performed by means of machinery, as well as
that there are a great many articles of useful labour
to which the Whites are competent. I hope, there-
fore, that one good elicit' of the present measure
will be to encourage the Whites to mule in the
West ladies, and to pursue such trades us those of
blacksmith., coopers, &c. and thus to increase the
proportion of Whites to Blacks. There have been
repeated emigrations from the highlands and
Islands of Scotland to America ; but in the upper
lands of Jamaica, if I am not misinformed, there
are better soils, where such as are driven by neces-
sity from their native country, might be usefully
employed. In short, Sir, were I called to state
, my belief of what would be the measure of the
greatest security and advantage to the West Indies,
I would state this very measure. 'I he Negroes in
the islands would then become attached to the suil,
and to their masters, from kind treatment, and at-
' ford the increased means of defence from a foreign
enemy. But, there are one or two general 'epics
More, on ti. is subjea, to which I must briefly advert,
before I sit down. We have been told, that if this
be considered as a measure el justice, we do not fol-
low up oar own principles ; tor, it slavery be in it-
self unjust, we ought to abolish it altogether. I
think it sufficient to say, thet the result of this mea-
sure will. I trust, lead to the abolition of slavery, en-
couraged and asisted by such regulations as the
wisdom of Parliament may afterwards think fit
to adopt. I trust, that by this measure, slavery
will gradually weer out without the immediate in-
tervention of any positive law, id like Manner ai
took place in the States of Greece and Rome, and
some &arts of modern Euro:se, where Slaves have
been permitted to work out. and purchase their
own freedom, and that such relent:dons may be
adopted as have been in some of the Spanish and
Portuguese Colonies. In all the States of America.
with the exception of one, the Slave Trade has ac-
tually been abolished ; and not only so, but in
some of the States, rneasnres of gradual eman-
cipation, by means of education, and the like,
have been adopted ; and, I believe, that in
some private estates, particularly that of General
Washingtoro, the. Sieves have been actually
emancipated : anti I would ask, whether any
instance can be pointed out of insurrections
and revolutions. in c eiseq tieynecenootf,
siunchsunichaSs'tiraetess,
or rather, whether they t
in ta,orwniohthreraeedevotAinniettrajczreys
nb.etethni nPe i
g peaceable and
orderly;
aptlt o excite
revolt.
ne-
groes our islands witnesi the superior
e
f
f
jfe
he
a
tdaswuhebehle:iovtu:
slaves,li
:cliy sdtl
rotbri
thniFe,eo:ltti rpthnervolaotatiphpnlnpcnerr,:he;:e
rnwasb;iaotrirs,
neltsstgi
d,oirrnu.i
an:
nceodnediAmerica.udliaatta
hhrtic i
el
eftreocstapoDomingo.ntnarniidivaniuistet
notßai
ppßnu which
cetahte
nhsseti
mclnoodiii
to
set
have already
bre been akeeted, that if we abandon this trade,.

other nations will take it tip. The same objet};,
may he made uie of by them :' thus, th's argue 4
proceeds in a circle, without leading to any ta:
ta.iory cnnclubion. 1 confess, Sir, I am %
from being sanguine, that even if peace
to take place tu.in.rrow, any such general al
libteat measure would be adripeed ; bet let us
least hope that France, which is contending with
for power, when it sees us take the lead, may
ashamed to confess itself inferior ro us in liberate,
and virtue. At all events, this appeari to be ;L;
most proper m anent fOr tatting the saintly.
meastne ; for tlic trade of France and Hollaad
nearly annihilated; Denmark and Amci ice bat
already abolished the traffic in Slaves ; Poelegi
alone continues it, and her trade is not one-sixth
of ours; and may** not hope that Poraivil
self. when she sees that other nations hart abut.
Boned this trade, will also relinquirh
shall now, 81r, only notice one other general at.
gnawed, which be, been made use of by the tee.
mies of the Abolition; namely, that this trinte
been saationed by antiquity, as wt.ll as by the nt.
of statesmen, particularly by Lord Clarendon, sr
Mr. Locke. I entertain as great a saspkt as any na
fer sack names; although, as to the farmer, I
not I ink upon him as the best authority that coin
be quo.ed in favour of freedom but surely it,
attempting to prove too mach, that because tle
t'r:.l • %, a. an which' they Aid „
attempt to resist, therefore, we must tenth,
it. The *Arne argument might be made asa
of against the Reformation, because Sir Thorne
Mote did not imm-diately, encourage it ; and Lyn
in favour of torture, because this very Sir rharn.,
More encouraged tha use of it in his own Coen
%Vali all due deference for authority, it must n%
p:rmitted us to judge for ourselves; eed writ
we are convinced that any iustimtion i, founded

inhumanity, by whomsoever it may hay, is,
santlioned, we are bound to resist it. It is rumble
that this trade in its infancy may not lore am....
notice, or that those who coiwenanced it mei
have been aware of its dreadful cansequ-n.:., ; .
Mr. Locke may not, probably, have exanso.,
this subject with the SAM: attention or ar.-era7
with which he examined oilier sableds. Bu:
alter all, we are to rest upon &nasality, I
not think it entirely rests on one side. 1
mention the acme t f one as mach entitled tr.
sped, the President Montesquieu, who ann,!rinn,
this traffic; but, not to quote other names, I caw,
but recal to rnmicry mote illustrious stinesm..n,
House and country have iu lately 14).r—incr. al
felt so deeply interested in the w.-Ifirre of tie s:d.
and who bent all the force of tteir minds an tl:
great question, where all rival hip ceased. Ti,
names or Pitt and Fez are not inferior so any mho.,
and we know how anxiously they wished for to
abolition or this trade. Let me call upon tl
House, then, in this first Session. to pay that tri;:t
to their memories ; and. if we are sati.fied on

ground of fads, of experience, or justice, of ba
manity, and of Christianity, Let us rear this mo-
nument, snore dear and splendid to their me.
mory than any other that can be erefled: Ti
measure these great men left as a legacy to ti
House and to their country ; the st.ccat-s.nf it ats
'slat- their hearts, raw WAS *e of the last wishes e
pressed by my iliastr;ous predecessor. 1.1,ai I:
great question, which was nurse. 11441 than t.l 1,.
peace and happiness to Africa, all other diff.osi.,
fur a moment subsided.
" Cencida..t vent., Ingiuntque nnbes."
Ills is a subjelif whicir is most worthy of the as.
teution of the House of Commons, and I tru,t stilt
be successfully carried."

General GASCOYNE lamented, that on this
subjeft he led to contead not only against
but prejudice, and witlifort that eeideirce..• rob, if
admitted, would have shown the staegeroui ten-
dency of the present measure. He declared hint.
self, upon every view of toe subjea, and after ?la.
cure consideration, bgaSrined in his former opinion.
But that opinion ha not been fairly-represented.
The Noble Lord had said, that there was an indi-
vidual so charmed s the Slailer rade. that eves
if it were abolished, he woolal true for its re•esta-
blishinent; but his (Gen. Gascoy 's) words were to
this effeet—that seeing all the consequences wh. eh re•
stilted from she Slave 't rade, and the tiourishieg s'4ll
of the colonies, and that no other method has ;reel
found out fur bringing them into thak estate but the
cultivation by Slaves, and that unsicy this system
our navy and commerce had so flourished, be
should rather than that our coloni: s should remaia
uncultivated, wish the Slave Trade to be continued.
Had t:.e Noble Lord beer. candid enough to have
agreed to the produeh3n of evidence, he could not
have denied this statement; but having rejetlell
that evidence, which the Learucd Counsel had
offered to produce to substantiate their allegation%
nothing remained but matters of mare assertion and
opinion. This was a question of great importance
to the commercial interests of the couctry in ge-
neral, and to the town of Liverkpol in particular.
The Ntible Lord .ad heat adverted to the evidanee
which had been giver in the year 1792.witn reaped to
enormities in this trade then es:stint! ; but what proof
had he brought forward of any thin similar own 1
The Noble Lord had stated what had been the case
twenty, and in same instances forty or 30 years ago.
Std quoted them as eresent existing evils. He had
stated many el those evils which formerly existed to
the middle passage, before the tes.riclions and re
gulatiuns of late yeats had been adopted. He had
made an appeal pallaioos, whilst he excluded
the evidence °felt fads. There was no one el ir
would say that slavery was better than freedom; ac
the same time looking at this subjed as a matter of
policy, it was requisite to consider first of all what
immediately related to ourselves, rather than slut
respeated others. The Noble Lord hid even sp.
p:ied the epithets n: .• rohbers, murderer,. Etc." and
that not to the Traders alone,but also to the Colo-
nists. What did the Noble ord mean to represent
them as so cruel that no justice was to be expelled
from them Surely this wise &gross end an ill-icund-
ed charge! But this he would maintain, that never
had a proceeding of seen magnitude been b ought
into that House. wherein there had beet sees
a want of justice and candour as to ref rle the
produftion of evidence. The Noble Lord had J--
mended, who are the persons that would appear,
but such as were rate:rested t Undotibtredl Wow
persons would have appeared, who felt the •Aelves