The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1807-04-16 00:00:00

CHANCE or ADMINIISTRATION.

The Hon. W. IP LY r FLP..I'ON rose. in pur-
suance of Lis :unite, anJ adJressed the House to
the following effea :--e• Sir, in submLting to the
Hnuee the motion 1 shill have the lionoes to pro-
pose. it is not my intention to talc,. tip or ingerkre"
with any part of that memorahle and important de-
bate teoic place in this H'.ll%foll hunki .y last.
I may nlaseree, that upon that occs.io t many sigh.
estraneoas to the ;que,iion then at issu, wrre
intruituceil. I certain:, lanseot, as deeply
.ws i

man, that is was so disposed of; not indeed so much
on account of the greet and immediate importance
of the question itself, as from an idea, that the
House was disposed to shrink from the debate of a
great and constitutional gees:ion ; that system of
cowardice, if 1 may call it so, with regard to a due
assertion of one of the leading principles of the
Constitution. In another shape it seemed to me as
if the House had come to a sort of tech recognition
of a priuciple, which, if carried into elite!, would
transfer into the hands of the Crown, a power ammo
trolable, because irresponsible—a power not differ-
ing from that power of the Stuart, against which
cur ancestors so long and so glorionelo contended.
Since, however, 'the Howe has come to a decision,
which I eanaot by any arearnent attempt to combat,
I shall proceed to suggest a Resolution, which can-
not but slow how far this prerogative has been in-
volved. It is a Resolution which I think the House
must accede to, as it relates merely to the coodu3
of the late Ministers, and one which does not dis-
pute the undoubted right of the King, or hi. Royal
Prerogative, to ehoete such Ministers as he may
think prupar to appoiet for the good of the eosin-
Weehmeae-Sisse. *ea iiSiLs tcu, 1110PareArlY
the full einifitletice of this House and the Coon-
try, carrying on our affairs prosperously, as for
as the !orient state of leurope would permit-
-yet, it is a plain felt, that they were suddenly and
unexpeeteslly dismissed from those off ees committed
to their charge. Now, Sir, let us consider a little,
what is the actual state of Europe. It will appear
that the affairs f the Realm have been, during
their Administration, judiciously perforened. Have
we seen suets an eetraordinary charge in the &faits
of Europe, a,nd in the power of tfile country, triat
We are placed se far Awls* our formidattle and de,
termined fee, as to entitle es to rest wt full security ?
Or, eare we at present placed in such a situation of
danger, .as to c m ecesion the ter:ite of the mantiee-
mem of public affairs being committed to oilsr
hands, for the purpose of effeeling a weatcr degeee
of safety I Has there been occasion fora fervent
and resolute remonstrance to the Throne, to entreat
the oppoinemen: of en Administration more ade-
quete to the general state of Europe ? Whet, Sir,
when the common sea of Europe and of Greif '
Britain is os the very verge of eenqutoing Europe
itself, when Le bee extended his ejelorious arms
over the greater p4At of the Catietinen!, is net
this a moment that calls for our !wet vigorous
exertions, for the purpose of rnaintaieing and easert-
ing our rights and liberties? Sorely, Sir, this can-
not be denied to be the period that requires every
means- to be pot into pea lice to form ao adequate
force to repel the attacks of our enemy. Then
the next question is, whether or not that power is
at present pot into the best hands, in order to
effect such a desirable of jea l The Ministers
who were appinted by His Slajesty, but whom
His Majesty has thunoet proper to terneve, or, te-
ther, has Isamu itaisirard to removes surely did emir,
thing carat we a.../1 the country could well expel% of
them. I will not say that they did every thing to
thaw forth into full effetee the vigour and resources
of the state, heettese they have been etopped in their
career. While they sisewed a disposition to peace,
they, nt the stone time, evinced a disposition to unite
ell iIAPOi end hearts against the common enemy of
their country. Ido net think it necessary to enlarge
upon the present stare of the circumstances of the
country. I may with teeny say, however, that the
finateers of the kingdom are not so flourishing as
not to render the ntmcot cleconom7 IleceseeY and I
may add, that it is not in every part of the Upited
Kingdom that the fulleg expression of unanimity
prevails. In regard to their meespress, the Lite
Administration del tot seem to have any sinister
spirit iu their view. In order to carry their objeels
or economy Tutu eff...a, what did they do t 'They
appointed * Conmittee of Finance, which, at all
events. was the only apparent means of probieg to
the bottom, 411.1 ascertaining with accuracy, wbst
were the resources that yet remained, and above all,
to do Away those *lmes which existed, and tended to
exhaust the funds& the couatry. They attended most
scrupulously to a proper ad ministretion of the public
'service. filet the power of the enemy is great and
hit mit; thle, it a fed which is universally ciinfessed;
and we see, in the !ate Ministers, a disposition to
conciliate, which was 'by. no means derogatory to
the national spirit. They proposed terms to our
enemy, which, if the Ceivernnosat of France hash
Wee truly pacific, they would not bare hesitated
to have agreed to. They withdteer them pre-
cisely at that period, when it was no longer
consistent with our National honour to eonti-
' nue a Negoeiation. Again, Sir, as to the admi-
nistratirn of our 4riety, is it nothing that they have
endeevoiireei to raise and Augment it, in a manner
mote consonant to the di Cates and feelings of hu-
man nature, by- limiting the term of service. by in-
' creasing the reward attached to that service, by se-
curing the good coodete of the soldier, stimulating
his exertions, ant improving the mode of
? Has not this tended to give entire-ate, force to
ourArrno,beyonclony, measures that were before pet
into pre:lice? And is all this to be esteemed as nothi
If there can be any detibt entertained upon their
eoedua, in these particulars, is it not indicative of a
good acid hotioureble intention, that they have eeen,
when ohser vett impartially, always ready to take up
acid adop: whatever suggestions were offered to
them for the amelioration or improvement of their
system, from whatever party it proceeded, when it
appeared to them as tending.to make it of a inure ge-
neral and etilergol nature ? As to the conduft of their
successors, we have seen but very little f lime., hear !)
and that lift!_ which I have seen I cannot approve of.
There are Iwo or three points in which 1' think the
conditiO of these successors has, been very extraordi-
nary, and highly reprehensible. They have brought
to the Iler of this Ileuse of Commons their Sove-
reign himself, tittle/ Aver ! hew. !) in order that
they might attach blame to a quarter where it did
not fall. They skulked and bid themselves be-
hind the Monte. Taty seraph- e not to tempos*

the Royal Robes to screen them from C.onstitirianal
responsibility. I Ratter myself, Sir, that lam as.
dutiful and loyal to His Majesty as any of those •
Gentlemen who now sit opposite ; but I understar.l
that loyalty to consist In an allegiance to the state,
such a loyalty as would not compromise natioval
benefit, for mere personal considerations, Inn in-
fringe the grand and leading principles of the Con-
stitution, Co selfish aggrandisement. I el pot know,
Sir, at this moment, by what argument or sephistre,
by what ingenious construction of the Law of the
Land, they can excuse themselves for layirg the
burden of their own rritconctudi opoo the Royal
Name and Charm:ter. These, .iii, are abstraftediy
the citcomoonees under which I think it motes-
ssry, that we should express oar approbation of the
conduct of the Ire Ministers; the more especi sliy
as they have been assailed by the most infamous
aspersions. We have seen, in the public priors,
Minutes of the Cabinet, with observations thereon,
which could cnfy be applicable to a perjured
Minis-
ter. There 'arc gross misrepresentattons in the
publication to which I allude ; but this is not all--
we have. also, Sir, what, for the character of the
country lam ashamed of, when relied upon that
firirtea/ ciy whirl IlichWen • ftirmbriy'escifed ass
the country. We have had the present COancellor
of the Exchequer himself. giving the watch,
word in his late publication to hie Corenituente.
I have but one ether thing to allude My, and that
is the menace which was lately thrown -on3
io this House, by a Right Finn. Gentleman oppo-
aka. No further back than Thnrsday last, we
were very seriously threatened with a dissolotion of
Path:finest, if we did not thick proper to accede to
those measures which the present Nietistere might
shortly think proper to propose, or rather, I may say,
tete/ode upon this Honig.. flow often are we to be
sent hack to our Conitituents ? As often, I presume,
as we do not implicitly fall into the views, and ac-
quiesce in the chimes of His Majesty's Ministers;
or, in other words, as often as they may think proper.
Is it llning? Is it right ? Is it constitutional ? No,
Sir, I Can venture to say, that such a threat is to-
tally unprecedented upon such an occasion the
present. I have no disposition to court favoun,
or to intrigue even for the Crown itself. If
such a measure shall anually take place, I shall
return to my Constituents, well aware that I
have discharged my dety in the opposition I have
offered, and I cannot doubt that they will sane:non
my con info in doing so, and that they will approve
of the vote I gave upon the late occasion. It not,
I shall never regret the loss of that trust, of which
it was no longer honourable. to continue the deposi-
tory. The moderstelanguage in which my motion
is couched, will he one mean of securing its success.
II the linste shall think proper to reje& such a
motion, it is di;ficolt to say upon what grounds any
motion, respecting the 'condor:l of Ministere, or re-
lating so the Crown, shail in future he received.
as the reposer of this resolution, have nothiag to
oßar in ray own tavola:, further than that ckaraelef
whit.% has cot been reproached by a mercenary ad.
herence to any man—to any party, or to any see. ".
I propose it, because I am confident that such a
Remonstrance, or some such Resolution, ought to
rem.sia upon the Journals of the House, in order to s -
dJ
.•!
justice to the late Adntioistration, whose chetah. iiNF--
ter, and whose conduct, have stood so high in pub-
estirriaticia. I shall now concede by movie&
-
" 'Nee this Henn, gamine, ing a firm a..r: efficient Admi-
nistret,m, as iiicliyeirsably necewsre, in the ?re.elit important
crisis of puelit Atrium hes seen, with the st•sersos regret, the
Late chaug.: ie Hu Majesty's Councils."
Mr. HIBBERT—n I rise, Sir, to second the
Motion which leas just now been made, and I with
4 had talleo to the lot of one more powerful in re.
gent to abilities ; but I can venture to say, that a
suoporter mere candid, zealous, and disinterestod,
could not' have been found in this House. I have
been, upon some occasions, under the necessity of
differing from the late M:nisters ; but I trust
that that very circumstance will be taken as
an adlitional pledge of my sincerity, and the
high degree of erimation in which I hold
them. Their behaviour, Sir. in my opinion, was
manly, candid, and considerate. The Hon. Mover
his said, with
,justice and truth, that the present
crisis is it c of alarm to this country. I have
no twee-Jinn to enter into further Proof upon that
point, so as to satisfy the Hozoureble Gentlemen
oppose, because. although they may say that the
late Ministers succeeded to a AG of rem they
will pct Say, that they, in their turn, have left them
one. Such, I suppose, will be their conviction; but
it is one which I shall not waste your time by at-
tempting to dintrove. I appeal to the House,
whether many of the ditSculties which the late
Ministers had to encounter, have not been got
over, ar.d a greater facility effdaed, in averting the
dangers with which our country May be threatened?
The great feature wind) distinguished the late Ad-
ministration, was the;Negociation, for which there
was clearly an opening ; and I thiok they would
have been exceedingly Warn id by their courtrymen,
if they had not embraced it in the true spirit of
conciliation. Looking at that Negociation, there
are two prominent features that occur in it ; a
spirit of p. ace. and, at the same time, a rigid
and inviolable faith towards our allies. There
could not have been any two circumstances, that
could male a more decided and lasting impression
of their qualifications. Kith regard to the pre.
parations made for resisting the force of ear
enemy, both in regard tit onr army and navy, their
measures were at once constitutional and effective.
They adopted the best means of iucreasing our re-
sources; their military plans have been approved
by all military men ; and I feel a gratitude to
them, upon that groused alone, which I oast will yet
he felt all over the country. Their measures will
be likely to have the effeit of re:wining ns all
soldieis and cat ems, by turn. and tend to
do away those chargers which our ancestors dread.
ed. Ports havi• or a large standing army in the
conairY. With rensda to our Navy, I am, from

4..,.!

.

. ,


• s

my being exceedingly interested in the eommercial
interests of the country, enabled to speak from my
own knowledge ; I do not recoiled. since the be•
ginning of the war, a year in which fewer captures
have been made of Our slips. Wh le the increase
of our force has been going on at home, our squad
cons have been most judiciously distributed abroad.
Finding that there was a loud call for ecnnoms,
the y lost no time in setting on foot an inquiry into
our financial resources, and to suppress useless
places, and sinecures. By having done this. the
late Ministers, in retiring, carry with them not only
the approbation of their consciences, but the good
wishes and the gratitude of their countrymen. 1
have heard it said, that the late Miniaer, were ex-
exedinoly litadiee in assistiag our allies, either by
subsidies, by expeditions. or, I may say, by bustlin.:
in preparing for expeditions, in order to keep the
people alive. I grant that th-y have not, tile
ferries Administrations, been the meats. of drown-
ing WO min in the ocean, in an injudicious expedi-
ti ; nut they have surely secured the means of an
..!•,niare. End well lion r co operation, by placing our
r ivy in the most proper stations. His Majesty's
ive '.limiters, constantly professing
did. consistently with their acknowledged p in-
cipies. bring bra sad a measure, calcuia• ed as
they thoug'.t For the advaroage •of t'e coun-
try. by augener firm its strength, and recon-
eilitg existing an:mositivi amongst out selves.—
They afterwards thought proper to withdraw
it. for reasons now well known ; hut in doing
so, their opinions remained unalterable as to any
future measure of a similar nature. when deem-
ed necessary. The King can, na doubt, dismn,
Isis Ministers whenever he pleases, and thetetorc
it has been said, there was no call to demand a
pledge. That may do heovixt the Sovereign and
His Ministers ; hut 119 W are the people to be situ-
ated witi. their represei.wires, when discussing the
conduit of such Ministers ? We ate tie guaidiaos
of the people's riglsts, and it is our duty to
sandion the proceedings of Ministers, when we
fin they have aded worthy of their situations of
responsniility. It they had continued in place, and
granted suds a pledge as was required ot them,
they wciald have deserved to have been impeached
by the House of Commons, for having betrayed
the interests of their country. We are told I y the
present Ministers, th..t they have not pledged
themselves; but I say. that unquestionably tie,
live done so, by the very as of taking their
places. How can they be supposed to hav their
minds open to such a siihjed ? I shall ask them,
admitting the bare portibiory cf their being cn-
voiced, at some future period, that some conces-
sions to the Catool•cs become necevary, both for
the protedion ot the neople in general, and for the
defence even of the Piorestai t derigian itself. lew
ere di. ytoad ? Can it he supp .sed that they would
be ready upon the first Jawnuig of mat a convidinn
upon thi. sublet, to come forward to conies that
they were wrong? Will they net then be reduced
to the predicament of Heftor, when standing before
the g.,tes of Troy, convinced that lie had slated
a better advice, but had felt his error whee too late.
If any argument. which may occur this night, ea.;
• induce this House to agree to such a motion, I
trust that if.ey will not be deterred from coming to
a je..: and proper di tertuination. by the threat which
Gil last Thursday from a Right Hon Gentleman.
Such expiessions never fell from the lips of that
consummate Statesman, Mr. Pitt, even in his
greatest difficulties. I bate no personal animosity
towards the present Mi istets ; but tie honour and
dignity nt the House of Commons are sacaed ousts
reposed ill us. It is our duty to evavh over tin. Goo.
snorion of our ancestors ; and, therefore. I trust,
that hit the purpose of showing our convidion upon
this most important sut'j U. the present motion will
this night be agreed t 0.,,
the motion was then read from the Chair.

Mi. HILLS—. Sir, in rising to oppose this mo-
ticn. I shall not tre.pess long upon the' patience
of the House. before I proceed I shall first
abserve upon the form of the motion. It does
'tot appear to me to be the best calculated to
do. justice to, or to attain the objea in view.-.
It is not conceived in terms the most appropriate
fir thcpurpose of expressing that approbation of
the cokll of those persons, whom the Honour-
anle Ginaleman wishes to compliment. It is
Dot to be inferred, that br:atre they deseived well
of their country, their dismiwal not necessary.
I think they state the case unfairly towards them-
selves. If that opinion is to be expressed as to
their conslua, it by no means follows, that their
dismissal Is to be ditaiproved of. It is a goes-
tion altogether ouconneaed with the former votes
of this House. The principles of loyalty which
a3nated the late Minions', ought, I think, to
operate in making t►em endeavour to support
the present ones. In this would be consistency
with tlie;i: peofessions of afFettion and regard
towards their Sovereign and the Constitution of
their country. As to the pledge demanded of them.
I think it was entirely the consequence of their
own indiscretion. In discussing this question, an
attempt has beta made to discuss the whole of their
public condo& ; but this is impossible to be done
withia the space of one night's debate. They had,
isideed, introduced many innovations, both in re-
gard to our warlike preparatior.s, and in regard to
tzttr hoancial system ; but I do rot know, that
either of them bad the public opinion in their fa-
vour. I believe, they have rather incurred the very
opposite sentiment, notwithstanding the panegy-
tics which have been thrown nut, as to their System
of Reform, and their having abolished the Slave
Trade. Whatever objeOions I may entertain to
these, and many of their Me:Math I shall content
myself with hoping, that the present Ministers will
not be above receiving any bench: that is likely to
arise from what has been performed by their pre-
decessors. The abilities of the late Ministers they
seemed to imagine were to stultify their oppo-
nents ; but I confess, for one, that neither in the
late Ministers, nor in their adherents. can I
discover that superiority; and the result of the
last discussion seemed to justify that opinion.—
I cannot refrain from alluding to what has been
thrown out by the two Honourable Gentlemen
who have spoken, as to the threat which they said
had been thrown out by tr y Right Hunan:- dile
Friend. I ~rn convinced that Right lionoutable
Gentleman did c t use it as a threat; and it is there-
lore fit them to justify their insinuation, that any

thing can be supposed to operate as a dwelt upon
the Members of the House. Ministers must se
cure an influence, over whili the most fadiotts
opposition can never succeed ; it being an ac-
knowledged Constitutional 'niacin's, that their dig.
missal is the Prerogative of the Crown. Their
Royal Master had the beneficence to state, tha,
their dismissal was an ad or p irainotint neurs
say. and to what good ptiri,o.e then call this mo•
ion tend ? It can neither iit'oriti tie rople nor
the King of any thing they do not already know.
It only tend, to make this House Use arbitrators
between t• King and his servants, instead of its
• •ing purely a Constitutional question between the
King a d his people. Such a motion merely seems
to origin see in, and to breathe clamours of. diaap-
pointioe..t al .tie, The late Ministers sty that they
would have pursued a diff..rent line of coodud from
that adopted by the present ones. Bat how were
the present Ministers to ad ? Were they to leave
the official so illations o f the Government totally tin.
occupied, and no person to whom responsibility
could be attached ? We have not been told arise
answer made by the late Ministers to their gracious
Sovereign, upon rece•ving their dismissal, although
we have tie Ira of the • xpressions of His Majesty upon
that occasion It might naturally be supposed to
have be.ori conc-ived um.; • In retiring from Your Ma-
jesty's service, we are admires! with an an=ions weds
to accommod tte ourselves to Your Royal Pleasure,
lost ad cf giving way to our own opinions or con-
scie. ces; hut, we shall by no means be thence
disposed to refuse oar coun•enance or support to
any measures that may be proposed by any Minis.
tees you may think proper to appoint, being con-
vinced that our compliance therewith will tend
most for the public good, instead of confounding
the charade, of Parliament, or interfering with the
principles of the Constitution ' Such would It tea
been the words that would have a.-reared mu t curl-
si.tent with their duty to their Kaig." The Hon.
Gent sail , that whatever might tie tie superior skill
evi••ced, in eliaravouring to make this motion as
comprehonsivr as possible, yet it evidently carried
on the same design as the former one, lately pro-
posed. Obscured and cloak-d as it was. it might
be easily di,covered. He should leave the alibied
to others more able-than himself, but he though,
that the best mode of deciding up•sti such a goes-
timn, would be to move ill, other Orders of the
Day. He concluded with moving accordiazly.
On the qw:ation, and the amendment, being put
from thc

Mr. W.\ Rll-ansa, and supported the motion—
" I (Li not kaow," said be." how I could discharge
my duty to my Constituents, if I were not on this
occasion to deliver my opinion as to the tare charge
wiicn has taken place in His Maj sty's Councils.
'Their condutt has been the subject of much milli'.
misrepresentation. No means have been s;.areJ
in order to lessen them in the public estimation ; 4.
if the Ice Ministers had been endeavouring to se-
cure power, by thwarting the wishes, and insulting
the feelings of their Sovereign. I know of cvthing
that can countenance such an imputation. If I d d,
I should he the first to reprobate and desert them.
As it is, however. I think that nothing can be mote
satisfatlory, than the circumstances attending their
dismissal from office." Here the Hon Menther went
into a re-statement of the circumstances he alluded to.
o While the conduct of the late Ministers has been
candid and manly, that of the present Ministers has
evidently been quite the contrary, they having
stooped to accept of bribes, to do that which no up-
right Ministers would condescend to dn. One
Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Perceval) had s..t
scrupled to accept of a bribe to tl,l his duty. The
lltitchy or Lineaster was no doubt given to
him, to enable him to make that gallant stand
for the religion of his country. If I had
seen that paper which had been circulated by
him a few days ago, and had been to judge of
the author without seeing him, I could not have
said that it was the production of a great lawyer.
or cf a Minister of the Crown, but rather that it
was the produaion of a most mischievous disor-
derly man, for the purpose of exciting one individual
against another, in order to raise the country, and
make it fall into the hands of an enemy. 1
am inclined to think, that in better times, more
favourable to the people, I do not mean the
rioters at Breatford, or the assemblies at Chalk
Farm, or those who cry against Popery, but 1'
mean that *hole body of the people,that are not the
creatures of the Court influence, or Court intrigue;
I say, that titling upon the mitt principles of those
times, perhaps the most proper moment for resig-
nation was. when His Majesty required the full
abandonment of the measure. Perhaps it would
have been better if they had not waited for that diss
grace, or those emditions of ignominy that were
proposed to them If such had been their deter.
mination, I, for one. would have been contented
to have stood by them, and abide the consequeuces.
This, however, might have perhaps revived revo-
lutionary sentiments in the minds of well meaning
men, in regard to religions toleration, and have
associated their ideas with rapine and murder.
How much was the forbearance of the late Minis-
ters, therefore, to be recommended ? They had
shown every disposition to conciliate. I regret
this change much, because it has deprived the king
and the country of a wise patriotic Government ;
and the more so, bi cause it has been replaced byr
one direttly the enwrap:, in almost every respefl.
H:re the Right Hon. Gentleman entered into an
er.umeration of the excellencies of the various mea-
sures adopted by the late Ministers. " They have
made themselves objects of aversion to the whole
class of jobbers and contralors, who no doubt felt
themselves in a painful state of fear, till they were
relieved by the recent change. What must be the
satisfaaion of all that class of persons sit seeing a
certain Noble Lord recalled to the Councils of his
Sovereign; that Noble Lord, when called upon for
his defence at the Bar of this House, appeared to
make a confession ol his guilt, by boldly and openly
declaring to us. the Guardians of the National Purse,
th it he would render no account of a large sum
of the public money, which was entrusted to his
care. This change has produced a glorious op-
portunity to the present Ministers, for an increase
of patronage. Who is it that has been so bold
as to advise His Majesty to restore that per.
sonage to the Council, with the Resolution
of the gill of April, standing upon our Journals ?
It could be nuue other, but those who have been

aiming at procuring plaees for themselves, at the
expense of their own con ci 'nces, and the regard lot
the duty they owed their country." The Honour-
able Member concluded a very eloquent speech,
with giving his utmost support in the motion
Mr. HAWKINS BROWNS centidered the
avowed aka of the present motion was to ground
a proceeding for the removal of His Maj -sty's pre-
sent Ministers ; but he hoped the I louse wiluld not
consent to any such application to His Majesty, at
least until they had a fair trial; and when they
should have had such a trial, lie trusted there would
be no necessity for such an address. He considered
that the present Ministry possessed all the talents, all
the ability, ail the public spirit, all the constitutional
feeling, and all the patriotivm, so much boasted of
by their predecessor. ; and that they did not, in any
degree, fall short of the former Administration, in
these peculiar and necessary qualifi iations. They had
a.ted, under all the circumstances, with petted uni-
formity, which could not be said of their predeces-
sors; for, from the measures adopted by them, and
by the financial schemes which the late Chancellor of
the Exchequer had brought forward, had they been
persisted in, public credit must ere this have been
annihilated. Upon the implied pledge given by His
Majesty's present Ministers, he supported them,
and should continue to do so, in the hope that they
never would make any concessions to the Itcman
Catholics of Ireland. Hut, above all things. he
supported them, because they will not interfere with,
•Of restrain the Prerogative of the Crown, or suffer
any Bill to be introduced into Pailiament without
the consent and approbation of His 61 ijesty.
—The H asourable Gentleman (Mr Lyt levee)
had given an early proof of hit ability and elo-
quence; but he thought his express; ins of loyalty
were not so extraordinary fsr their strength, or his
principles for their correaness ; and he thought,
that, shouhrthe Prerogative of the Crown t.e 'e-
duced, it must destroy the Hams. s of Lorses aaa
Commons; fur then the King outdid have no powet
over them. Fie thought any rn.re concessions
;even to the !Inman Catholics, at this moment,
would only be giving power to an adversary, that
would materially affea the safety' of the Esta-
blished Church; and. being of theft opinion, he
thought the late change of the Is:minty a very
proper exercise of the Prerogative. He considered
the exercise of another branch of the Prerogative,
a Dissolution of the Parliament. would al o be a
very proper measure; (War/ Arne! f. set all fart,
of the ileuse); nor did he think the Fight PLin.
Sectetary of State (Mr. Canning) had {seated the
House with the least disrespra, in adverting to tha'
steijea upon a recent debate; but had bden woolly
situat...d by a z al for the public welfare. Neither
did he conceive it necessary tor the late Ministers to
ask their Sovereign's p. remission to bring the pre
sent question before the House.

. Mr. MACDONALD said, the present question
led to a consideration ef public Affairs, an I this
sea; not a time when public opinion should be re-
jeded or withheld; particularly when such un-
constitutional and unpathementary meaorres a.
those of the present Ministry were resorted to, and
such a change had taken place, just at the mo-
ment when the Continent of Europe felt a hope,
anxiety, and confidence, in the measures of ibis
Government ; when despotism was on the poi& of
receiving a severe and deadly check from our silos-
trious Ally; when the eyes of all the woad wets
turned upon us; when the people were united in one
common cause ; when a system of economy retr leveed
our finance, and our armies were disptss,l in every
quarter of the globe, what might we not have dune t
Under such citclimstances,our bright prosper:; sere
realising, until this change took place, and it was
now necesaary to inquire the cause of Vic reverse.
Under such ciretimstances, he considered the House
not bound to support thcse men, who, only twelve
months ago, acknowledged their iocepacity to hold
the reins of Government. He concludel by ex.
pressing his regret at the late change, and returned
his sincere thanks to the mover, fur bringing tor-
ward the present discussion.
Mr. TIGHE., in a most animated and able
speech, which we regret our ',nets will not permit
us to detail, supported the motion. He considered
the tranquillity of Ireland had been much offs led
by the late change of affairs ; and supported the
Er-Ministers, as men whose comfit& had stamped
them with the confidence of the nations of Europe,
and the gratitude of their country. They were
economical in finance, wise in policy, prompt and
decisive in war, and in reform of abuses, and abo-
lition of slavery, they had proved themselves the
guardians and protedors of every thing dear to the
eonamueity at large. They had lived long enough
to establish their own glory, but not for the public
welfare. He regretted to find that among the writers
for the new Administration, the now Chancellor of
the Exchequer was the foremost, and held up the
existence of religinus animosity, thereby exciting
rebellion and insurrection. l le was the mole asto-
nished at this, because he had understood the Rigot
eionourable Gentleman war, a man of high ernineece
in his former profession, and a man of great huma-
nity and jostles ; but that Right Honourable Gen-
. demos had spread a cry of the church being in
danger ; yet this was, he understood, the gen-
tleman who could scarce be induced to enter into
His Majesty's Council, until be should be re-
warded with a considerable sinecure place for the
services he was hereafter to perform. Although
there were some persons in the new Administration
for whom he had the highest revert), yet he could
not consider them as coming into office bat under a
virtual pledge not to advise His Majesty on the
most important constitutional measure of the Stare
The Honourable Member then adverted to the
means by which the Union was obtained.—
The Roman Catholic Bishops were gained over
by bribes, and various honours were conferred
upon the subjea, by the prostitution of the Peerage.
Ile next commended the condud of the Duke of
Bedford, and Earl Fitzwil:um, as Viceroys of
Ireland ; and then related an Instance of an Irish
Roman Catholic soldier being forced to go to a
Prot.:introit Church. and threatened with military
punishment. He next referred to tl.e great diffi-
culty which must arise in the recruiting service in
that country. The peesantiy had now no induce-
ment; and as to the higher ranks of Roman.Catho•
lies, the great practical evil was. their entering into
foreign servize, where their bravery was so con.
SpiCSlOOl/ j while, were they etreoureged, they would

•
enter wish ten times the zeal in the service adieu
oen country.
Mr. ROBINiON declared it wet net his intents
to follow ;be Hon. Gentlrroan, who just set down,
through the various observetiens which fe had
thought proper to make. When he artacke I one
measure of th- [llion between the two countries,
seemed to overlor.k the coasideration, that the
Lord (Grenville) who- WAS at the heed of the los
Gnvernment,wes one of the persona. nano forward re
eatryieg that measure into ea.& He flt s ory !.11
could not easent to the motion of his I to i. Frien.:;
motion, which he introduced in a manner cieditsler
to himself ; and there wis nit man in the House Te
ready tn.gise credit to his it, wives then he sioi.
There were some points on whirls he could nen
inclined to support the late Administration In
their military measures, he could see nothitor • • ;
specula:lye plans and fallacious hopes. Ihe-.2!:
totally and completely reined the VtilunteerSier. •
by their inattendon and disregard ; and them
left no moral possibility of now ewers:mining the
cipline and force of that establishme:e, rhe r •
point on which he could not supoor t them, w„, ,h,
conduet relative to the Catholic Question. 11; 5.,„
opinion they had imprudently eccouraeed ea;:eo.
tenons which they could not gratify. and were rut;
predining evil consequences, which he did en
think the circumstances w if:anted. He thoi.gitc
the House might fairly expeiff that the Groot'.
menu of the Duke of Richmond would be as po.
pular and as lethent as that of Lord Hav,ivide.
Vile late Ministerial charges he regretted upea
general grounds ; yet still he could trot accede to
the proposition of condemning their su:ces.nrs by
anticipation, and much less, w:icu he recrnletled the
peculiar circum•tances under which they eta
called to the Caincili of their Sovereoen.
Mr. GORE siid, he hid the honour ol lvi ft a
Representative of a great and populous cett. tr
tit. Sister Island. Snm- months hack. every ii
-vas peaceable, and the peo;de wed ..ff d 1,411 wittee
the last month, no less than four nor d rs had Oleg
pl ice, and a number of indisedtra•s ad teen sr.
rested for treasonable pt aetices. lie toss ed, t'lit
when the pros nt Ministers should retire It en
• ffice, the I Ittuse and Count' y would not be obiigusi
to witness similar proofs of their policy and new
sures. The Bill which opened the Military Service
to the Catholics, had his warmest sup tit; a St•,:,l(7t
which he would have continued, ;tad the Lee •.
tens persisted in carrying it through its caps.
It was true that the Catholics of Ireland looked to
the late Ministers as their staunchest friends, Es
th use charaOers upon whom ti:ey may Sully iied
confidently depend for the complete fulfilment :of
their promises and sangitt•ie 'visitations. nut tke
late Administration must deer iv* themselves gratis-
In if they imagined that the measure they pi
posed was of a nature and • msnt to gratify t
Claims of that body. No; the Catholics cot: o
dried it only as an excuse for Mini-ten sot today
ing their numerous pledges ; they estimated it a, a
p iltry suhterfoge to escape timed d solicitatioos.
%Vete the Lite Ministers sincere in their region- I
Ireland, were they teeny inclined to prianote : s
happiness and to augment its comforts, they col
have embraced many opportunities of extending t
benefits of education and kAnwiedge- Flave 11341•
come forward with thategreal and oneitimable bless-
ing. which would have tang* the brave, but igrlns
rant, peasantry of that cleanly. to choose betwe'aa
real good and airy speculeinis ? Have they end: sa-
voured to rescue them from those numerous et 13
which result from the colleieioo or tythes in than
country, and thus preserve them from thrt varier y
Of distress to which the present system has In: kg
tcolofi
emtyhm!tot commits
ni
ill-used
sheaedamlel?i
countryora nt
ameliorate at? the condition surd, what
o ft
the
leetlibrieaapgohbt'L?:::
gem in the British Crown, and of which, in the so inds
of the Poet, he would say—

Long from a nation, ever hardly used,
At wantonly abused,
Have Brno n dram their strialgth."

Mr. ROSCOE obsi.rved, that the guest; ?en of
extending to the Ca:holics certain privile. rs it
the army and navy, went only to this event.
namely, was Parliament or the country disit whom
to affot d relief and opportunities to men wh o were
ready to expose their lives, and shed their b loos! in
defence of fir itish Liberty, and in tne preserv. *ton of
the Protestant Religion ? He contended, thaw the
change of time and circumstances had ever, i
history of legislation, operated to alter the vie
mankind, upon those points, which, though
merly the sources of great apprehension and
lance, had now aluigether ceased to give any
tifiable cause of alarm. Was there any gr
to fear a Popish succession in the pi
times t WAS not the country now bouni
stria treaties of amity and confidence wake
Catholic Allies on the Continent ? Therefore,
Wiat principle could dependence b- place
those Catholic States, up n the Catholic Ge
who headed and commanded tir4r armies, a
rime moment that this country had refused to,
a similar confi 'ence and reliawe on the le
auJ attachment of our own C.c!iolie fellot

in the
w of
for-
wig'.
jut-
Goad

our
upon

the
place
salty
.set•

jells? His - riSjeet-io;io the present Atimial
lion was, that they hart come into power by
ronstitutmal means ; and, therefore, were
worthy of a eonetitutiotual support. ft
tru:. that some of them were well krnw:

the country. whilst others wine too well known•
would not enter into a comparison of their respd
merits, as compared with their predecessors.
would nisi conirast the talents at the present C
cellar of the Exchequer with the extraordinsr)
lents of the Noble Lard wham ha succeeded ; bt
should *dwelt. and request the I louse to keep
its teculies:on, to the inclination and ansici

I

provide for their own p.r:onal emolument. cc ;c4
was displayed by both. The one would be wool to
have gone cut of office without sinecure nr pens 3.
(Meer I hear .!) The other, (Mr. Perceval). e
House should remember, had adually hogai ,',l
for an office of fliAlt trust and great etrotamet::
and for what ?—to induce Lim to do the dot oi
another important ctiszes to which a large la :F
was also annexed. 1,1 .v If Hear! kr ir !) 1,8
line of argument adopted by the present Mtais h
with tesped to the Coastitotionsl pledge which was
proposed, immedistely scent to cast the oti Lai
upon His Isiojetty. To intridoce the King person. -IT'
agimni
was, in his mind, a high of datian of the Right ,I
the 'lhrou, aaJ of the PI li ilegri of titer ' 3-

1

impossible to recollea the threat which was
na to
the House on afirmer occesinn, with
bee;
noes, ,
-ing the strongest teeth gs of disapprebetion
a ever regret that some itislependent
• Ihe
y miser
of-t.heHeose did n •t then rise in his place,
„ippon ,t,e privileges of Parliament. until the
luire et that threat and its immediate invasion of
des pr iv loges were fully disclosed If such a me.
e:* .ee shi.util he •suffered by the House in pass unno•
eked, Pols the Constitution of the country was a
Ab....raet theory ; but he telt too great a confi-
Jesse in the Constitutional Jealousy of the Reuse.
o oast that it would remnnstr it: with energy
i,:10It this unjustifiebie menace.
'e JOHN NLW PORT rose and spoke to the
yeettiviag effea t It was my intention, Mrs
brakes, to have immediately replied to t .e ohsers
„eons n 1 the Hen. Getelemen who .to. ke last
;;e: one. I felt anxious to hisce cons tented on
• inie stetenvinis which fell from him, with a view
answering those charges which he sit impted to
e.enuete against the late ;ideates of the Clown. It
it on those chatges I shall be able to do what I
..k I will, then do I trust for his vote, then cio I
upon him to support those very measures, the
e nosed nen-performance of which he has, this
t., be the causes of ohjeflien to the I.oe
.neostration. Certain that I will be able fully
loser/ince him on these points,l now feel it my duty
to call him bock to that opinion, which, to my know.
Is 'e, he entertained within the lest month, with
respect to the natioita"l 'deices perlormel by the
Lee Servants of the Crown, and to the probable an si
prarnical benefits whisk would result from their
A iostistration. How this transformation in his
al s has taken place, lamat a loss to ascertain ;
ha it i be only It:meted on the allegatimis wi.ich
lie has this night advanced, I can feel no difficuliy in
toMging the Hoe. aientle:nan back to his former
scson.eers. He lies told the House, that he did ex-
pert, from the late Administration, on their coming
e.eirer, an immediate Attention to the diffusion
e ete 'dun amongst the pepulation of Ireland. He
zee .d, that it would be difficult for them to prove
thai any en icavour was made t.. support the con-
dition • f the people of Ireland, by as amelioration
el the storm of mental improvement. In answer,
I call ape a him to look to the Statute ink, to refer
to that • '1 the Legislature wisich constituted a
njgb for the express purpose of inquiring
J completely silting the gross misapplication
• ose fee ds, which were particularly set valet
specifitelty intended, for supporting a system
letional education. An Aft, the trainers of
stitch were anxious to make ;1.. comprehensive as
o :•eb'e, and which emirates every information,
hwever discordant. co other questions of po
ley, the source from which it fl ,wed. Tne
Commissionsts appointed under to it At pro-
seetel to rt.eir inquity ; lilt MAI/IWO has
a!rtadv followed, and at this moment the Commis-
ci n is aftually silting. How therefore will the
;Noe. receive the allegattons of that Hon. Gentle-
teal when on a subjea with which it was his duty
to b, acquainted. he is afluelly uninformed ? How,
I ask, ran the House repose confidence in the louse
and undefined charges which he has this night been
plenssd to make, when of an Aft of the Legisla.
to paired about a year ago, he is perteelly igno-
rant of the origin or operation ? When the late
Administration direaed their :sedition to an ame.
Ii sretinn of the system of education in Irelanti• the
art of necessity was to inquire into ..he state
et three funds, which had been intended for
that purpose, and ,which were grossiy mis-
applied. This charge of gross misapplication,
I state not either without suffieient grounds of
justeication, nor with any inclination to avoid the
responeeility of my statement. I speak it in the
face of the Ntible Lord (Cesdereegh) opposite.
I charge him with having known and suffered those
funds, which were intended for Inc ,upport of a
system of tailored education. to have heel 4rossly
ane uejestitiateiy perverted for peeresses Of pervinel
aegrandisement, and for the furtherance of the
most criminal views. ( Hear ! bear ! /sear !)
Ti.e Report of the Commissioners proves it ;
Lei the 'evils of the misapplication are lement•
slily felt in the decline and degradation of
those Establishments, for whose uscs these funds
were originally appropriated. Mr. Speaker, I can
appreciate the nature and temporary subtle,'
of that power which can fix its basis upon
religious distinaion. I can clearly ascertain the
strength of that support which originates wite
deludon, and is ptopagateJ by bigotry ; winch ap-
peals tieall the bad, the b ise• and malignant feelings
of the human heart. In estimating, I say, the nas
sure of peleical power. so influencing and so operat-
ing, I can sufficiently comprehend the transient
facilities it possesses over a bold and honest policy,
which, in a. state where human corruption Is Sib
Prevalent, manfully wages war with every thing in
the shape of public abuse, and sifts the sources of
tuitional through all the recesses of official
peculation en.l plunder. (Hear ! her I) When •
11111th, apptopiieted for public charities, were eh-
owned in Inmate expenditure, when they were cal-
culated as parts of the family estate, and bequeath-
ed to the descendeuts as a portion of the patrimonial
inheritance, it became dengrrous to mead's svi:h
;hem ; and I do not hesitate to declare my stroiig
and Decided convittion, that no small part 01 our
eelitical sins arose from our endeavours to correct
sbus's, to coavia delinquents. to restore to the
public that money of which it bad been shamefully
defrauded ; and to make even the highest in rack,
tee cost clev.sted in political conneftion, return
rinse public funds upon which they had so unjusti-
fiably and ill.gaily drawn. The next charge to
which the Hen. Gentleman adverted, was the in-
attenition cf the late Ministers to the regulation of
ter tyth sin Irelend. I have answered his first at-
veAtiou Item the Swine Book. I hare now to
be ow myself sin the coetidence of the House, when
1 dt Mont them, that one of the first objetis which
reedit Late etexage.l the attention of the late Ad-
ministration, ;nevem. to their dismissal, was an
amelioration of the tythe system ; mei I do conjure
the present Ministers, if they regard the peace and
seessrity of Ireland, and the general safety of the Em.
te take the stets ut that syste:n into their imme-
diate consideration end regard. But great and corn.
ter neiog 41 this neee.aity is, I can siefulge no such
expectations from men swim besot set up the c:y
CS a car wide/ate. They, the advocates of the Chu: c:.
On to of whom have left 'westing umlork W ta=tir4•l':

•
the charatter of teligion in its most vital part, by
uniting Parishes, Almost for the length of counties.
This, I do assert, was the system of the Lord of
•'tc Pt ivy Seal, ileq Lnrd beatetiant of Irelar:cl
arl ar Westmoreland); who, during his govern-
ic.ent, hal raised to the highest station a Prelate
who had dared to expnage the mitre from the
arms on tits coact. Bin this was not all ; the

system wis uvrisec. The hrokm down in for-
tune, and tile degraded in charafter, were el -..ated
to the hig iost dignities in the Church, to the ex-
clusion of the religious Curate, who had vuir!:ed for
years is the vineyard. (lies'! He,r ! fle r!)
But need we ask a more co-vinci.ig proof of th-
disregard of those men for that Chutzh, to which
they now, with the purest views, fed so xealouly
attached, than to recollen the changes which they
eftefted in the various parishes in Ireland ? 1 ern
upon the House to rest its opinion upon experience,
and to deduce this plain conclusion from that ea
perience, that whilst they had power, every other
principle was sacrificed to per,onal emolunse: t.
I come now, Sir, to that m:asure which I lit

Majesty's late Ministers load tlolooght expe-
dient to propose feu the relief the Catholics of Ile-
land. This boon, of which so mach has k:en said,

and to which such frequent allusions have be-n
made, did not comprehend but one forty-second
part of the restriftions under which that body of
subjefts labour. At the passing of the Union, there
were forty-two offices from which Roman Catholics
were excluded ; sod that great measure. I do most
seriously as.ert, was gaoled under the positive pledge
given by c:se Noble Lord "pp .site (Castlereagh),
prat to the Catholic Clergy, and next, through
them, to the laity, that ewers existing disability would
be removed. and the while of those 42 offices should
be imtneeirely opened to the Catholic subjefts of
Ireland. (Hear! hear !) And yet these are the men
so pledged are+ bound by every pri iciple of honour
and coesietency, who have the etLontery to raise this
unfound •..1 clamour of the Church in danger, be-
cause the late Administration had endeavoured to
c.pen the Alley and Navy to the Catholic officer.
(hear ! bee. ! hear!) It has been observed. that
the Noel • Lord (Grenville) was a friend to the
great measu a;—so was I ; and my support to it
was under the fait& of those sacred engagements
which 1 now fad the Noble Lord opposite (Castle-
reapli) had lever even in contemplation to to fil.
I did hope that the situation of Ireland would be
committed to the consideration of the British Par-
liament ; that jot interests would be imparnady
consulted, its grievances redressed ; that, as
it had surrendered itself to tee proteation
of an Imperial Parliament. its affeirs would
he considered of Imperial importance. Had
I ant been deluded with those hopes, and de-
:rived by those xpeedstious, I would have sooner
suffered my right um to be cut off. than to
have widingly surreus feted those rights and ad-
vantages, which Irelaed, in its independent state.
did certainly enjoy. In surrendering that inde-
pendence, she made a great saC•tfice ; but it is a dif-
fertmt and an unreasonable position to assume, teat,
because I voted for that measure, therefore am I
to submit to the vielatien of every engagement, to
the infraction of every pledge which accom-
panied it in its progress, and accelerated its
execution. To Ireland, I ray, it ..as a great
sacrifice ; and let this country, for a moment,
suppose itself in her place. Let it reflect vo
whit was given up, and on the manner in
whirl) that surrender has been recompenced. I
unfertrinately have seen an indisposition in this
House to attend to the cnecerns of jr. laid. Be as-
sured it is a mi-taken policy ; for it is that conk
ponent part of the British Empire, wlech will press
itself upon Briti,h consideration. It is, I say, that'
component part of the British Empire. deprived of
whose assistance and support, England would be
reduced indeed. At present I will say no more,
but revert to those changes which have so lately
taken place in the Councils of the Crown. And
here 1 cannot refrain from expressing my de
cited convi,hion, that more than a common se-
cret influence has been exerted to work upon
the benignant feelings of a most gracious Mo-
narch. Upon those who have used this uncon-
stitutional influence, no common risque of re-
spoesieility devolves. But that principle equally
exteeds to the Ministry who have succeeded to
power, after the demand of the pledge, as it does
to the secret advisers of the Crown. They entered
upon a vacancy created by the refusal of their pre-
deeesior to give an unconstitutional pledge. And
to accept office with such a knowledge, fully com-
mits them to the resporsibility of the measures
which led to their accessien. Will they say, they
are not really or virtually hound by that pledge ?
Will the Noble Lord opposite (Castlereagh). ven-
ture to state in his place, that he is now at liberty
to fain' his repeated promises to the Catholics of
Ireland? (Hear! firer!) Could the Noble Duke
(Portland) say, he lied not given this, as well as
Innumerable pledges to the Irish Catholics? What
would the House believe, and what mutt the coun-
try suppose. when they are int ormed, that that Noble
Duke had afivally written two letters to two offic rs
high la rank, of the Irish Brigades, wherein he
promises this measure for Island ; and assures
them. that it was determined to open the whole
of the military career to the Roman Catholics.
1 has we tee promises made only to be broken ;
and. when we c ill upon the Government to
fulfil its engagements with the People. we are
answered with calumny, and assailed with intolerant
virulence. But again I repeat. that it those
pledges had not been most solemnly made, not all
the gold of Ireland, nor the gold of England, nor
the Borough Compensation, nor the appointment of
Compensation Commissioners, could have prevailed
en the Irish people to have surrendered their do-
mestic Legislature. When, therefore. the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer sounds the alarm of church
danger, when he sends f nth, amidst the people,
apprehensions calculated to excite religious ran-
ceer and fanatic fury, (near! hear! hear)
his associate, should hold his hands. and, fur
their own consistency. reps ess him. They are bound
tit say, rr We must resign our situations in a Go-
v. rumen: which is founded on the basis of intoler-
aece; we must abjure a system which goes to
create religious dies. nsion, and fixes its power on
dividina and ea irmitg all classes of the people.
We will not suffer teuselves to he compromised."
This laaguage it is their (W.y to hold. because, how-

e'er unable to performs their pledges to the CAthors
lies, they ,Isrpild not forward that system, which
ties up their own hinds; and which, tinder the
pretest of religion, goes At siace to pull down that
Eihric which protedts both Church and State."
Mr. BANKES said, he never could charge himr.
self with the evil consequences which resulted
from the Union, as he was, at. that period, a decided
enemy to the m. +sore. Even Mr. Pitt himself had
left this question r f Catholic restrittions undecided,
and he (Mr. Bunk.-9 believed, more rrns'oe from
decision now than mover before. respet to : e
present M rlinn, lie should oppose its as '"
entrench upon the Royal Prerogative. Thee, w
many of the late Ministry's was, ,e!ticli he certainly
approved ; and, on the whole, tie wet'. tree is Admit,
CiAt he regretted the causes W:llCh led to their dis-
missal. But, on the present occasion, he thought,
there were periods when the King might exercise
Lis individual judgment ; nor could he see any
ground for imputing to the present Ministers any
I secret advice or management, in procuring their
places.
Mr. TIERN Y crild not avoid adverting. the
list sentence of an KM. M_mher ( Mills),
Wiich, indeed, cnoriised the whole of his speech.
What, said he, need we mini more than the dil-
-1 missal But the country and the House had
More to mind; they had to inquire into the causes
which led to it, and to the consAuences which
were likely to folbw. No man more repented the
introduCtion of the King's name, but it WAS not
the seeking of his Miriade. There was a time,
when the Constitution sod the Legislature at.

tributed every set of the King to ins advisers;
but the doctrine of the dey denies the existence

of advisers, and, of course, endeavours to unwar-
rantably:attach the odium to the Crown. He know
the feelings of his Sovereign, and revered them to()
fervently, to . believe that which none but hit
worst enemies could advance, namely, that the late

change was his own personal alt. Was he even to
Ise told by any individual, however exalted or re-
speCtoblit, that there was 0.1 improper influence, he
could net believe it, convinced, so help him God,
as h: felt, of the 'dark and deep intrigue which had
been praaised. With respet to the Catholic Bill,
it is said by on- Gentleman, that it was wrong
to urge it; by another, that it was worse to with-
draw it. And *hat course should be pursued 1
It would not pass the Irliiuse, and, therefore,
to persevere would be nugatory. For a Minister
of use Crown to urge it, with an understanding of
the Royal disspprobation, was pregnant with eels-
sure. Ministers took the course which circumstances
jus:ified, by abandoning it, with the reserved right
of guarding against misrepresentation or further
misunderstanding, by having it in their power to
state their opinions, and declare their dirties. By
demanding a pledge. the King had nothing to gain.
He had at all times the power of dismissal. But
by it the secret .o4visers had every objee to acquits
The wit of man cuald no: have hit on a more des•
terous, though a most base expedient, for the a:-
complishment of their views. They ii raised,
by this pledge, a complete harrier of exclusion,
against the respeaability, the talents, the crier:a:ler,
14.1 ivoight of the coun ry. Ile would not adopt the
voiression of the Secretary for Foreign Affairs
(Mr. C,rning),. '‘ all die tnients," as he was
e-intino to complete the number. But :money
the limit which was pl iced to the claims of the
Catholic, took away from that d-scriptioto that
which is one of the greatest cointorrs to the most
miserable wretch ; k robbed them of their hopes.
( thar ! hear !) The present Miuisters had ad
vetted to their intended system for Ireland ; it was
comprised in two words—firmness and conciliation.
What was meant by firmness, the country well (new,
he hoped no part of it would ever feel its effeCts.
By conciliation, he understood, giving and tak-
ing; but he was at a loss to ascertain that specie. of
conciliation, which rook all and gave none (.1 laugh)
He could not reconcile the conduit of the N Ade
Lord opposite (Castlereagh) with the latter, which
in that tioase Mr. Pitt admitted to have received,
and only begged not to he blond by the term of the
sentence. lhe Noble Lord called on the Catholics
to trust to him. Merciful Goa! trust to him (Castle-
reagh). They were to remain with decency and
decorum for his decision; and when they call upon
him to fulfil his Jury, they having performed their
part of the contrett, he must teU them, it is agreed
that your name must never be again mentioned.
For six years they have been cajoled, and now they
are deceived. It is impossible but ths Ministers must
have bound themselves by the pledge. The breach
of promise was not written on their countenances.
An Hon. Member opposed the Motion, because it
went to stultify the present Ministers. That was
unnecessary, as they had stultified themselves ;
they were, by their own admission, for a long Li ere
in possession of that sinecure. (.1 144164 Thir-
teen months ago, they pool:Oiled their own inca-
pacity ; but, perhaps, they have diligently ap-
plied themselves in the interval. The Chancellor
of the Exchequer has engaged in Finance. The
Foreign Secretary has not since acquired less diffi-
dence; and the Noble L trd (Castlereagh) would
not have hesitated to accept a place. (.1 laugh.)
They are all in the same way, except that great
and valuable addition, the Duke ot Portland.
In fan, the Drama:at Pre ions are the same, but the
parts are newly cast. Lord Malgrave, who was
formerly Foreign Secretary, is now at the head of
the Admiralty; and the Duke of MuaLrose, who
was before the sapient President of the Board of
Trade, is now transformed into the warlike Master
of the Horse. The Honourable Member con-
cluded by declaring his belief that Ministers did
not themselves know who was aftually Minister.--
He gave them credit for more brains than to sup-
pose they intended to place the Noble Duke in the
front of the battle. ' Perhaps it might be Lord Mel-
ville; others said, the Marquis of Wellesley. He
would net say there could he a be:ter Administra-
tion substituted; their best tenure of office was the
impassibility, under su:h a pledge,' to provide suc-
cessors.' In fail they were not, in his opinion, an
Administration.
Mr. MILLS shortly explained.
Lord CNS I'LEttEAGH thought it necessary
to make some obs•rvations upon the inaccurate and
unfounded view is which the Right Hon. Gentle-
man (Mr. Tierney) had put this question. Every
one muss have takers notice of the reproach with
vrioch h: commenced his speech, sail every man

must regret that the Sovereign's name ems lernuek •
iet elif -sag- made aeainst ejm ; cod,
wettish was t. • . R is 41 word, tr.. 2 was 1.0
recret Advisee ot Credo upon this st.ei ►; eel
His Majesty hid assured him.- that 1 e had ei ss
communication with any one person upon i:, trect
the 5.h of Meech, except fdis sj ety's ewe rivate
Secretary. who attended him wi h -Ificitl thew
menu. Thr Neste feud (Nowa) fli cling him-
self that he lied a majority on a or mer night, made
an effort to seduce toe Crown to sterrnit to a faftion
of that House, end thought ix sheule then have
been able to bring:tostrard a motion for the dis-
missal of His eilseestyht recent Ministers; but it
lies since been proved, by the vote if thallpHouse.
that the country no longer depends upon them,
and that they have forfeited (by the measure they
were pursuing) Ms Majesty's cenfi 'nee It was
impossible, thereferte they could justify them-
selves net any grounds for endeavnuring te force
and vioeire the chnseience of their King. lie con.
sidered it a Regent breach of duty when the Noble
Lord took upon him to send summonses to seer of
the Cabinet Council, and not to others ; and w;
bed to say, no such nesetreinee e'er be'oeit took
place; rod he coned led any Cabinet Miliater,
guilty ot so gross end sh =clot an efFerce, as
highly impeachable. L Erskine, eiernoteh, and
E.llehlxwough, were excluded this Council ; and
thus the arrogance of seven men forme., ihemselvee
into a secret tribunal, and sent a dispatch to His ; ta-
jetty, as if trem die Council nnanirnonsiy, when they
well knew, t see were absent, and thus eleuced
Majesty to suppose they hal been unanimous, By
the measures proposed to be Idepted by the Ex-
Ministers, the Catholics sireuld lave a perp-mal
claim upon the country ; but they must submit,
when they found the question was no longer to be
:agitated. H: w.is always alverse to geentin to
!the Roman Catholics any con:cede:l of any political
power. Any power given to them was only cre-
st:tee a monster to destroe the Constitution. The
eat :übji' the Noble Lord referred to. was the
Veienteers, who, he e intended, were disoi eenised
and disgraced ; and concluded by cherging tee late
Ministry wets a deieliaion of truly; and althrstreh
they could not play noon the conscience of the King.
and lost hi. coefidesce, they nevertheless kept their
empire:merits.
Lord HO WICK, in a most spirited end animated
sneech, of which we cen give but a sketch, thought
that terse cempl tints or curve Larae with a peen-
hefty bad race from the Neele lewd who had jest
sit down, who was never ,atisfied "Pith len than tvio
strings to eis how. He miget charge mm and his
friends ercued him wee an inordinate I,ve of officer.
His Lo dship then adverted to tee charge of forcing
a Governor upon the East India elompeny, of the
redueion of the Shipping Interess, krt. Hoes the
erbjea of this night's debate, he to..ng;ir ;he I in-
guage of the Noble Lod (Castlereagh) was the
mot indecent and unearliemeetary he had
...ver heard, and nothing was more calculated
to breed nsisehizf throughout the countey.
Th.: late disturbances in Ireland were cot, as an
Hon. Gentleman imagined, uueonneSed with the
stibjeft of the present Bill ; the tendency of which
was calculated to produce some pod effects, whilst
it wis easy of accompliehment, at the saws time
that ether mea ere: were in contemelivion. red
aftsally under review,of the same beneficial tend is.
ey. When Mr. Pitt went out of office, a'ser having
proposed a much stronger mea.ure then the late
one, his su:cess.'rs wee understnod to b- under his
patronage, and yet that new Ministry bed sneuded
no alarm (is the present Chancellor of the Exam•
quer had done in his address to his Constance.) $
aut, it they had sounded such alerrn. would lie have
submitted in silences or, would he not rather, with
all toe thunder of his eloquence, hive proved the
falsehood and hypocrisy of etch a charge as that of
woundieg the Protestant Esteblishmer• of the cono-
try fhe Right Won. Chancellor of the Exchequer
had flattered the people of Northampton (among
whom were nosily I )iammers) by stating at his elec.
eon. his seal for the Protestant Estaelumment, and
that this was the basis on welch the new Mu.ory
was founded. it appeared likewise that they fere
in a combined league to oppose slily proposal omeler
to the late one in favour of the Catholics et Ire.
land; but to what did all this arnopt, but to
stir up religious jealousies and alarm The Duce
of Bedford had aifled both with firmness and
mercy, without violating the liberties ot the peo-
ple eh Ireland; Lord liard.vicke's Administration
had been concluded on the same princiele. For Isis
own part, he thought that coneessiens to the Catho-
lics ought to go still farther, although he was sorry
to find that there was a spirit in this country which
put that measure at a greater Jistaru.e than ever,
mad the pledge required Was objedioneble, inas-
much as it would have caused other measures in
contemplatioa to be set aside. An Henenrable
Gen leman had referred to what he had stated in
the Libby, daring the late division, as to the neces-
sity et proposing mine farther measures. He con-
fessed he felt confident of success upon that occa-
sion, and was not abide disappointed withthe result.
Had the late Motion been carried, his intention WAS
to bring forward a motion respeahig the advisers
of the measures which led to the rrineval of him-
self and his Colleagues, and to make the advisers
of that aft responsible for wiving such As
OD the question of an elitism Aeministration, he
was not of opinion that the prewar is such a one ;
toad although it was improper he him to speak as
to the silents of that Adroanstration ot which he
was an unworthy member, yet lie shreds' he, at all
times, ready to defend the coreleta of that Aerninise
tretion against whatever charges might be brought
forward. No one of the bete Ministsy had had the
presumption to say, that all the talents of the
country were engaged in it, although he must be
free to express his opinion, that s beget Administra-
tion had not been foam one better suited to all
the pot:Lice& relations ot the country. ev.ith respite! to
the King's Prerogative in choosir.g his elihistets,
be considered the House as !wring a tight to ex.
erns its tenements. and this he put in a variety of
sarong cases, that might, by way of supleisitee, ae-
tualy o:cur. If the aft or the &messes of tee lets
blintsters preceded upon uncensti•utional roved",
and the present :Ministers were hound to ee the ad-
visers of that measure, then he C 3 :Clelhi that toe
latter were lot esteded to the coraideeze of that
Howse; and when he saw men at their very
entrance into orfice, for political purposes, exciting