The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1821-06-16 00:00:00

nem* she i*eeired publk mese* f a buitiPerrmillieut
Nekoosa the mietweity last ipightsgaseei the re. them
peal of the bone las so leatilliiiriaostiAles &as • Ay
men, all of *bum reeeired the public austiey...kribillr -toads
were net cheekod sow other Consiairiowls *gall by
be imprinted to perform escursiths, Siled with ird
the adherents of Ministers. He should, therefore, -
peotset 'wind kin Mon. Prieudieteiwtip;j, dare t'
or indirectly, any share of the public money.
Mr. W*. SMITH said, be should oppose the ,
Opinion-eat of his Hon; Friend Upon principles ink
sot from stay personal feeling. He could not lOW
mut to try any general principle •on the charietbi
atm individual, DO snifter how pure his- diameter.
The qwesfion for the House to consider sisk sket
ther they should allow the influence•of the Omni
to be increased.
• 'Sir N impose said, if the apPoiltitteeirier •
MeMber of Parliament upon the coiumission• slfllb
a blameable act, he was the person to blame. It
appeared lo him necessary that the Commission
should be appointed by Parhametit, and invested
with parliamentary authority. Abuses had existed
for a long time. and this was the ouly means to
correct them. He meant no disrespect to the Se;
cretary of State fur Ireland, when lie said he welds.
Iset of ell men upon earth who should be appointed
Open this Committee. His lime was 'almost ett
tirely employed'in Dublin, and one of' the advan-
• hero of this Commission would be, that their ex-
. reborn should not be confined to but
extend all over the country. With respect to the
' appointment of a Member of Parliament at all, lie
should say, that if this were foist permanent; it cer
tainly would be objectionable in the highest degree;
but it way a 11111141011 temporary in its nature, .aud
nut removable at the pleasure of the Crowns and,
besides, if a remedy were to be applied by Parlia-
ment, it must be founded on the Report of the
Committee, and it would be necessary to have some
one that could give the necessary inforniesiote He
DOS us averee as ally man to the slightest increase of
the power, and if he thought this measure was cal.'
culated to increase it, he should be the last man to
support it.—(Hear, hear.) • • i 4•./ .:. 1
Mr. MABERLY ?lion& that thrtiebritiiiiiibertri
were quite enough, and although they might not re-
ceive present payment, they certainly. would have a
future claim. He concluded by proposing that
the blank be filled up with three instead Uffive
Commissioners.
The Cuseczt.toe of the EXCHEQUER said,
that the Government cculd have no other motive
for the selectiou of the Commission than the desire
of choosing those "id would must efficiently dist
charge the duties of the -office.
Mr. DUMAN said, that 41 the. priteciple of the
Bill were admitted, it would prove a greater nuisance
then any which the Commtsoiontes would be able
to remove. The Bill, in the first clause, named
the Cunintissioners, but the second clause 'pro:
vided that the grown ShOuld fill up any vecanciee
by teeth. He objected to the establishment of so
direct a branch of rninisterisl influence in the
House. His Hun. Frieted tow hint had been
cheered its his defence of his uwu •ppOisirmerat, mud
lie (Mr. Drunter.) would here brut glad, fur the
elite of his Hun. Friend, had the cheers proceeded
firms penes., the greater pert of whom did not
hold offices themselves contrary to the spirit of all
enactments aud regulations which pest ages
had devised to prevent the presence of placeintit iu
that House. He was sorry that his Hon. Friend
had been able to offer uo other argument in sup-
' port of his appointment than that which would go
to the repeal of the Act of Queen A une, mid -ell
other statutes which hail been passed to limit the
iofluence of the Crown in that House.
Mr. C. HUTCHINSON lamented that a sense of
duty, and of the importance of a great public
principle, compelled him to vote apparently in op-
position to his Hun. Friend near him, than whom
(es he himself could testify, fioin having served on
s Committee with his Hon. Friend) there could not
be a more efficient and useful Member of the Com-
minion appointed.
A short discussion took place upon the proper
method of putting the amendments, in which Mr.
Abercromby, Mr. Moberly, Mr. Httme, and Lord
A. Hamilton took part.
Mr. BeoGDEN read the original clause, which
went on to name the Commissioners without de-
claring of what number they were to consist.
Mr. MABEELY mowed as all ionendment, 6' That
the Commission consist of three instead of five
Com Missioners.."

him
in 1794, at dectuctio.-
' : Mr. &tikes odd, *lst the deists ought never to
have been refined to a Committee. but ought to
'ave been decided by the resiletioni adopted upon
ill such claim., by the Chimed/or oithe Exchequer
iind the Lords of the Treesery, by whom these
claims in partectiltr had been referred to the Comp-
trollers of Army Accounts, and by them declared
so be wurran'ed by neither jesting nor equity.
They, however, on • sort of liberal Ina equitable
grepend, granted him .48,000 francs. On • second
application made by him in Noveinber, 1819, the
Comptrollers of Army Accounts thought be had
shewn no *Winonal grounds fur any further sum
being allowed him, and expressed their upprehvja.
'ions of the danger resulting from setting 'sock's
precedent. On these grounds he thought the Com•
miller should not listen to the application.
Mr. IRVING observed, that these Reports of the
Army Comptrollers were before the Committee,
but they came to a di&rent conclusion after ex..
mining all the evidence, both oral and 'written. -r,
As a member of that Committee he must sly that
he did not thick the Reports jointed by the tads.,
. Mr. (...; REN PELL observed, that froth 1794 to 1818
No intimation «vs given of any intention to make
this claim, except an intimation made to Admiral
Cochrane, and he trusted the House would give the
. proper consideration to the fact of it having bee*
so long dormant, and asked, if a party thinking
himself entitled to so large a sum would have
been so dilatory in his application ? He yet.;
'ferret(' to the Reports of the Comp`iollers of
•Atmy Accounts, and asked, why his Majesty's Mi-
nisters aid not state what had occurred to change
their opinion, or rise and oppose the proposition ?
It was their duty to act upon their own responsi-
Ifiliiy, and not put it upon the House. lie there-
fore it:Jeral as an amendment, that 1,418/. 2s. 41.
be substituted for 20,0061. I is. 6d. •
• A Member, whose name we could not learn, sup-
ported oho ;imposition of Ms. Irving.
Mr. KEITII DOUGLAS having been • Member of
Ole Committee, supported the recommendation
'which they had given, oil the ground that the
question was referred to it purely as • question of
equity, and they had formed an opinion in that
aviiit. .
I Sir JOIIN NEWPORT thought k quite a new
doctrine that it should be considered criminal
in the House not to adopt the recommendation of
the Committer; he did not intend to derogate from
the labour* of that Committee, but the question
must be alt cided on the view taken of it by the
Jotrw. Ile thought the •question ought to have
ru brought forward at the Peace of Amiens; and
Coin:erred with his lion. Friend (Mr. Gretifell) in
the opinion that it -was the duty of his Majesty's
Goverimirot to Lave settled this claim, and nut
have pushed the responsibility ou the House.
The CHANCELLOR of the Excestnusa said it
' Orbs in consequence of the appeal of the French
Government that his Majesty's Ministers had
thought it necessary to refer the tastier to the
House. The French Guyer 1111 l ent had proposed
ii Commission, the Member. of which were to be
chuarii by the French and English Governments,
e bet as the latter objected to that mode on the &core
of the expense, flier hail, on the whole, thought it
better to refer it to Parliament; a tribunal to which
the aliment was willing to refer it. Upon the
*hole, lie did not see any reason to vary from the
decision which the Committee had come to, and he
Arnold therefore give the propositiOn his support.
• ' Sir F. °UNARM EY opposed the grant.
. Mr. W A RRE supported the amendment. . _

Mr. Founas aupported the recommendation of
the Committee.
Mr. W. SMITH could only ugree to pay 1.4881.
milli full interest from the time it became due to
the present, which he calculated would be about
3,200/.
Mr. T. WILSON NOS in favour of the proposition
Of Mr. Irving, and opposed the amendment. He
blot lit that uo delay which could be avoided bud
taken place in bringing forwaid the claim.

Alderman Vt'ooe co ... i . lered the question in the
nature of a reference; it h:d been left to the Com-
mittee, and by their deri.iou he was desirous to

The Committee divided :
For Übe Atm sokseet
Agaiust it .

; Mr. FlumE wished to know whether the Com-
mittee to which the question hod been referred was
a Select Committee, as on the answer his vote
would depend.

Majurii y
Another division took place on the sppoilainent
of Mr. V. Lewis

For the 11,bsioo
Apical it
Idsitoity 4d
After a shoal discussion, the other clause. of the

Mr, litrltto said the Petition hud been pre-
sented by him, and was re`erred to a Select Corn.
mittee in the tasted manner ; arid on that Com-
mittee sat two Gentlemen who were Lords of the
Treabury.
• The Committee then divided, when there ap.
pearerl—
For Mr. Grenfell's Amendment . . ls
Against it set

Silt were agreed to by the Committee, the House
resumed. cud the Report was ordered to be received
on Monday next.
COMMITTEE OP SUPPLY.
Mr. C. GRANT moved the Order of the 134 y for
the House resolving itself into a Committee of
Supply.

Majority 3B
fur Mr. W. Sm;tai's 19
Against it

Tile Irish Miscellaneous Estimates were ordered
to be referred to the CoMmittee.
The SMILER left the Chair.
Mr. C. GIANT and Mr. Immo rose to Nickels
the Committee together.
Mr. Boom:taw said, that Mr.C.Grant first caught
his eye.

Mijorily
The original question was then put end carried.
IRISH MISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES.
On our return to the gallery we found Mr. C.
GRANT on his legs. Hr still entertained doubts of
the •tidttantage and propriety of many of the chart•

Afr. Immo asserted his right to restune the at-
tention of the Committee, having been in posses•
ion of it at the rising of the last Committee.
Mr. BROCIDEM apprehended that what had taken
place iu the last Committee could not be binding
on this.
Mr. C. GRAN? gave way.

tibia grants. In the one which he now had the
bottour to propose there was • reduction. as com-
pared with fortner years : in 1818 they amounted
to 417,000/. they now weir only 398,000/. He raw.
chided by proposing a 'repletion for granting
20,000 f. for Proiestrait charter ac#tools in Ireland.
Mr. tlettE objected to thet.e grunts ; and he had

and •

Mr. IRVIMO proceeded to renew his motion re- the authority of letters from Dublin to say, thut
spectiog the claims of General Desfourneaux, for grants of public money, when it comes to be apo.
losses sustained by him in the island of Goads• plied to charities, became in Ireland little better
loupe, at the time of its capture in 1794. He , than a job. He contended, though these grouts
stated the particulars upon which the claims were wire reduced, they ought to be reduced yet more
founded, and maintained shut the recommendation ; Initosidetubly. till they clone down to the sum whirls,
made by the Committee to grant them ought taint agiorably to ilia Ultimo, se were obliged to grunt.
ii
attended tn. Referring to the honourable ms.nne !I He wus sorry that he was not prevent in the House
in which ilia Fritioch Government had disahurgetl a few ti•
.zlits ago, whet! • Hauler grout was made
heavier claims of ninth longer standing (to dm for the Refuge for the Destitute in this men.
amount of between four and 5,000,0000, he felt that try, as lie should have opproottl it oft tie prin-

Adders. or if soy regulation had been adopted to
stop Future admissions Mt the .wessiber was ditni-
nished, so that the proper funds of the Society
etulittriaintain theta.
Mr. C. GRANT admitted that the principle on
which the chaiter schools were instituted (that of
malting converts from the Catholics) had
.beeu pro-
perly abandoned. He was wet able to give any an-
swer as to the state of the Society's funds.
Sir Jose Nit*loter sent, lie believed the whole
of the funds of the Society were derired rrom the
interest of Erasmus Smith's bequest.
Mr. Hume explained.
• Sir Jonw Neweent said, there wodld be greet
difficulty in reducing the number of children from
the multiplicity of the establishment,. The origia
mat Principle of the schools, that of educating the
children of Roman Catholics to the exclusion of
Protestenta, was monstrous in the extreme ; hut all
those principles were now abandoned. This was,
in his opinion, an iustitution which ought to be
brought trick to its original finds.
Mr. DAWSON thought it extremely unjust in the
lion. Member for Aberdeen to charge jJbhing on
the charities of Ireland ; es an Irishman he would
assert there was no more jobbing io charitable in-
stitutions there than in this cJuntry.
Mr. Hums,. in justification of what he had raid,
world beg leave to read an extreet from the
letter of a Noble Lord (the countryman of the
lion. Member). The passage was this: Unfortu-
nately in Ireland the MAIM of public money always
leads to jobbing."—(Cries of " Nome, name.")—
Lord Cloncurry was the Nobleman. and it nay in
a circular letter to Members of Parliament.

Mr. ItI`NAUGHTEN laid the mention of the name
•hewed how improper was the introduction of the
letter.

‘• Mr. Hums said undoubtedly one opinion was as
good as another.—(" No, no.')
Mr. 1141SIAtiontsw said, one opinion was not aa
good us soother. The Hon. Gentleman was fa-
mous for his zeal and discoveries in jobbing, and
perhaps some persons at Dublin might have both-
bugged him with a letter (as he stated he had re-
ceived such u one).—(4
Mr. Hulls said he would mention a job
the last year's &linnets there were five Governors
fur the House of industry. at salaries of 500/. a
year each. He had mentioned it, and the Right
Hon. Gentleuran had promised it should be looked
into, and the consequence was that lie had reduced
four of them. l'erluips that would not be thought
a job in the opinion of the Hon. Member.
After a few words from Mr.C. GRANT, the Re-
solution was agreed to.
30,000!. was then voted for the Foundling Hos-
pital, Dublin ; and 19,6001. for the House of In-
dustry.
Mr. C. GRANT submitted to the House that
something should be allowed testhe Governors of
the House of industry. who had beet; removed;
one of them was of the great age of 72, and was
not likely long to be a burden nil the public. Ile
would therefore propose that 2501. a ye ir should
be granted to the two senior gentlemen, and 2001.
to the others.

Mr. lIUME objected to it, as he considered they
were sufficiently remunerated by 'the salaries they
had been receiving.
Mr. DAwsort bore testimony to the order and
regularity of the House of Industry.
Mr. lino Griefs said, there was no question be-
fore she Committee. •

Mr. C. GRANT them proposed 9691. for retired al-
lowances to die Gove►nors of the House of In-
dustly in Dublin.
Sir J. NEWPORT opposed the grant.
Mr. C. GRANT said, as the upioion of the Corn-
nutter was against it, he would withdraw the Re-
solution.

It was withdrawn accordingly.
On the Resolution for grouting 5,5001. to the
Richmond Lunatic Asylum—
Mr. Hums rort to object to the item of 1201.
charged for tobacco end souff.—(4 laugh.)
Mr. DAWSON said, that ►t was undoubtedly u I utli-
croub thing to mention, but in talking of lunatics
it was impossible to say that the charge was unrea-
sonable. It undoubtedly was a source of enjoy-
ment to them which he thought the humanity of
the flotzse would not interfere with.

The Resolution was then agreed to.
- B,ooot. was then granted for the Hibernian So-
ciety fur *oldies' children, and 1,6001. for the Hi-
bernian Marine Society, which was granted, after
a few remarks froin Mr. Holt E and Sir J. NEWPORT
on the large e4ablishinent of officers attached.
2,400/. was then voted for the Fenarle Orphans'
Haase.

On the Resolution for granting 2,400/. to the
Lock Hospital, Dublin--
Mr. HUME complsined of the large medical esta-
blishment. He bud heard, he raid, that mangy• of
these charitable establishments were ',imputed by
the medical Gentlemen for the sake of the salaries
attached to the appointments.

Mr. C. GRANT said the physicians no longer
formed part of the establishment.
Mr. Sratnci Ries defended the characters of
Gentlemen in the medical profession in Ireland,
lest, from what the lion. Member had stated, it
►hould be supposed they never served the poor
gratuitously : the contrary of which was the fact.
After a few words from Mr. Hosts and Mr. C.
GRANT, the Resolution was agreed to.
9,500/. was then voted for the Dublin Laing-in
Hospital, 1,400/. for Madam Stevens's Hospital,
and 4,5001. for the Fever Hospital.
The sum of 8,9001. ►cas granted to defray the
expenses of the Roman Catholic College ut Muy-
tiOoth.
Mr. C. GRANT then proposed that the sum of
6,400/. be voted to defray the expenses of the So-
ciety for the diffusion of Christ►an Knowledge.
Mr. S. Rtes stated some objections that existed
in the minds of the Romani Catholics of Ireland
again►t the schools supported under this establish-
ment. Far be it front I ' to underrate the vain*
of the Scriptures, but the circulniitni of the Pro-
testant Bibles amongst the Catholic populatiou

:Parkelest woad tieireee ibiltead the'ionoloy here these rata by then claims to be whoa ti the vets of sookeshe. so to be by '
.6:reti‘votell4.' 22.111aaesght
•ffo nest sabsbitted a variet, of Geverooteot dim,. piblie sediser., lie observed. that bore the sitil•
imenta mitmectea with the sobiect,and'coacluderi venal rims of rents he should base ezpeeted a
by moving that a sum ef .0.1101/. Ms. &I. be grant.
.kreater advance in the Society's rests thee from
vd to General 'Stephen Dodeurnest: Ter losses ; 3,0891. which it was in 1794. to 5,5001. which it
pod damages sustained by him in the capture of now appeared was the sum they rreeived. -Re
"Guadeloupe in 1794,"withcet deductiou. wished also to know if they coattowed to receive
- 111 _1 !f• ---._L.:_.. 1... A %As.n mein niPti to