The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1825-03-29 00:00:00

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PARLIAMENTARY !NTELLIGENCE.

DOUSE OF LORDS, MONDAY, 11Aaca to.

Xml GREY prevented a petition from certain corn-dealer, fu-
lness, :itimhera, in the counties of Norfolk sod Suffolk. preying
for r lof the assessed tasea—lssid on the table.
Mr.,' rogden and several Members of the House of Commons
brougHt up the Surplus Revenue Consolidated Fund Ail, the
Caledonian. Canal Bill, and other private Bills, which were read a
first time.
Mr. Scott, from the Chember of London, presented the Receipts
of the Orphan Fund, and other Accounts, pursuant to Act of Par-
liament.

CATHOLIC CLArus.
The Bishop of Olouceeter presented a petition from the Clergy
of Gloucester, praying that the HOLM would not grant any further
concessions to the Roman Catholics.

Lord KING said that the House had heard the other day many ,
oSservations on the irregularity and ir.convenience of discussing
inch petitions as the petition now presented. It had been even as-
serted that such discussions were disorderly. But, to :Am, there
did not appear any thing disorderly in the proceeding. In an
country, where the clergy were listened to, they did not tend much
to the welfare of that country. An Ambassador of his Mont
Dotelic 1114 city once said to theAtnbassador of his Most Christ an
Majesty, " Why does your Master pay no much attention to his
Confer or 11" The Amburador of his Most Christian Majesty
replied, " Why, yovr ltlrster does the same."—" 'Tis true,
answered the forme:. " and that is the reason why our affairs are
in such a bad state." This wit in his (Lord King'::) opinion
true, not only of the Catholic, but of every otber Clerfy.
The Bishop of GLOUCESTER said, that he thoug,st the
Clergy were justified in coming before the House with their pill.
tons, and, In his opinion, the Noble Lord was irregular in acting
as he had done. Ile did not wish, Juswever, to say any thing that
might Irritate.
Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, MOMDAT, Mancm 28.
•
BERMONDSEY COLLIER DOCKS.
The 1te.e...5, Collier Docks Dill was read a second time, and
ordered to be committed.
Mr. LINDSAY moved for a new writ for the B3rough of
Wigan, in the room of Lord Lindsay, who has emoted the Chil-
tern Hundreds.
AMERICAN COLONIAL STEAM NAVIGATION.
Mr. S. RICE brought up the American Colonial Steam Navi-
gation Bill, which WILR mad a Bret time.
SEVERN RAILWAY.
Mr. LOCKHART presented a petition from the rroprietors of j
the Stroud aster Canal against the Severn Railway B:11.--Ordered
to Le on the table.
METROPOLITAN FISH COMPANY.
Allertrao THOM NON presented a petition from the Thames
Fishermen swainst the Metropolitan Fish Company.
Me. ouRTFAs Tormented two petitions from Inc Fishermen of
Leighton and Worthing in favour of the Metropolitac Fish Com-
pany.--Ordercd to lie en.vbe table.
Ale. H. DAVIS presented a petition ;from the Fishermen of
Dover in favour of the Metropolitan FistiCompany.—Ordered to
lie on the table.
LONDON BRICK COMPANY.
Upon the motion that the London Brick Company Bill should be
rout a .<crind time,
Mr. CALCRAFT opposed it, on the ground that the public
could be abundantly supplied with bricks without the aid of an
Act of Parliamer.t. Fur his part, he should rake the sense of the
House on the Bill.
Mr. CURTEIS said he did not know much or the circumstances
of the Bill : it was by a mere accident it was placed in Ills hand,
but be could not sec any objection to it, and wot.ld s.tpport it on
ute raneral principle of competition.
Strangers were here ordered to withdraw ; but upon our readmis-
sion Into the gallery we understood that the House stA not divide,
but that the Bill was lost.

He always eonsidered himself bound in courtesy to give every in_
formation in his power to Hon. Members. In the present case he
had no hesitation in saying that the Hon. Member (31r. Whitmore)
had given the notice alluded to merely in the exercise of his own
discretion, and without any communication with his Majesty's
Government. He for his own part felt the propriety of deterring
the discussion for the present, and taking uo the subject upon mo-
tion rather than on the present petition. W ben the motion did
come on, be (Mr. fluskisson) should feel his duty to attend in
his place and give his sentiments upon the subject according to his
opinion of its merits.
Mr. CURTF.IS made a remark which was inaudible amid cries
of " Question I"
The petit po was then reed ant: ordered to be printed.
CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION.
Mr. SPRING RICE hest to present a petition most respectably
signed by a number of Protestant Noblemen and Gentlemen in be-
hill of Catholic Emancipation. The petitioners were individuals
pponsasessed of annual property to a large amount, not less than
200,0(101. Many of them had hitherto, from the influence of family
connection and other motives, been opposed to further concessions
to the Roman Catholics, but now saw reason to alter their opinion
upon the expedieley of those measures. This petition wreathe re-
sent of the alteration which had taken place in their sentiments.
The petitioners stated their conviction that the disqualifying laws
which operated against the Roman Catholics were injurious to the
pence and concord of the realm, calculated to retard the prosperity
of Ireland, and threaten the security of the connection that existed
between the two countries. They further went on to state their opi-
nion that these restrictions could never be removed with more ad-
vantage than at the present moment. And they trusted the House
would not neglect the happy opportunity of placing all the people
of Ireland upon that footing of equality which the enlightened spirit
of the age and the charitable dictates of the Chnsuan religion re-
quired. The Hon. Member proceeded to say, he entirely concurred
to the sentiments of the peti iuners on this subject. He would also
recommend the Bill for Cathclic relict to be accompanied with two
other measures—one for the disfranchisement of the ferny shilling
freeholders, and the other for the purpose of providing an adequate
provision for the Catholic Clergy. Such measures, if introduced
IMO the House, should receive all the support he could give them.
There could be no time more opportune for the concession of Ca.
tholic claims than the present, when Parliament had just put down
the elohalic Association. The late presence of many of the lead-1
ing members of the Catholic body, and their examination before
the Committee of that Home, could not have failed to remove some
of the prejudices of Gentlemen opposed to the concession of Ca-
tholic claims. He did not think the alteration in the qualification
of freeholders in Ireland would st all trench on the popular rights;
on the contrary, he looked on the adoption of that measure as
likely to effect a wise, just, rational. and salutary reform in the
cqnstituent and repreeentatlve-bodies in Ireland.
'Mr. LITTLETON said he would take that opportualty of de-
claring his intention to submit a measure to the House connected
with the question then before it—he alluded to a measure that was
to regulate the elective franchise in Ireland. (Hear, her.) But
whether it was to be in the shape of a separate Bill, or a clause to
be introduced in the General Emancipation Bill, he was not then
prepared to state ; but this hewould declare, that it was to have no
reference to England ; it was not in the remotest degree to touch
the right of voting, as it practically existed in this country. (Hear.)
At present, he had not come to a determination what the amount
was to which the qualification was to be raised ; at all events, he
thought it would not exceed ten pounds. It may be said that this
meanies was not necessary, that Emancipation carried in itself
its own supeort- (Hear, hear.) He thought so; but it was to be
considered that prejudices were to be conciliated; that alarms,
groundless perhaps, still conscientious, were to be quieted ; it was
not to be kit sight of that there existed, as to Catholic Emancipa-
tion, much difference of opinion, and that securities were
wished for. He would add, too, that the proposed measure was
satisfactory to a large proportion of the English people. They
looked ion a modification of the elective franchise to Ireland as a
sufficient security. For his part, he thought it ought to satisfy all
persons, and believed no measure more conducive to the general
welfare. He agreed, too, most fully with the Honourable Member
for Limerick (Mr. S. Rice), that no measure could tend more to the
purity of the t presentation in Ireland, or more to the real inde-
pendence of the representative body, in following up the resolution
he had come to on the present question. He begged to state that
he bad no communication whatever with his friends on th it side of the
House, with whom he was in the habit of voting on moot occasions,
or with those on the other. The Hon. Gentleman went on to say
that perhaps he ought to apologise to the Hon. Bart. opposite (Sir
F. Burdett) for interfering at all in the matter. It was necessary to
make some apology for what may be locked on as an absence of or-
dinary courtesy. His chief motive for not consulting the Hon.
Bart. was, that he was totally ignorant of the Hon. Baronet's
feelings as to the question. The Hon. Gentleman concluded with
repeating that the measure originated with himself, and that he had
no communication with any other Member on the subject. (Hear.)
Ale M. A. TAYLOR begged to enter his most decided protest
against the proposed me sure. He was anxious that no person
should fix a charge of inconsistency on him. He begged pardon
for troubling the House with so very insignificant au individual as
he was; he had, however, • seat in that House for forty years.
(Hear.) He had pledged himself to a particular line of conduct;
to that would he adhere. At different times he advocated the cause
of Emancipation ; if Mr. Grattan lived he could bear witness that
in many private conversations with him, he (Mr. M. A. Taylor)
expres,ed his desire for Emancipation. ; at the MUM time lie would
not pledge him elf to support any measure brought forward year
after year; he always reserved to himself the discretion of deciding
on its merits when brought before the House. To Catholic Eman-
cipation he was still friendly ; he was the advocate of it as origin-
ally proposed, conceiving it necessary to the peace and tranquillity
of Ireland ; but never until then was be told that • reform in the
representation was a necessary security, and that also it was indis-
pensable that the Catholic priests be paid by the Government, be.
fore Emancipation could with safety be granted. Wes it for him,
who had been endeavouring day after day to lessen the burdens
of the people, to advocate such a measure ? Was he to be
told that as a boon forty-two or forty-three thousand pounds
should be granted to carry that question, which he had always
heard was able to carry itself? (Hear, hear.) With what face
could he go before his constituents if he agreed to such a thing ; if
he had to say to them, ' the Catholic clergy are now to be paid
by you ; they are to be supported by the people of England, whe-
ther they like 'the Catholic religion or not ? lie was himself a
Church of England man ; tie was what was called " of the Church
of England strict ;" yet he refused to vote money for the building
of churches in England ; he appealed to tha Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, if he did not tell him, when the House was in Committee
on the question, that if the congregations were permitted to nomi-
nate their own clergy, they (the people) would willingly raise
churches enough. t Hear.) With what face then could he tell his
constituents that they were to support the Catholic clergy ? with
what face, too, could he consent to contracting the right of voting ;
he, who had always voted for its extension ? There may be octa-
stone when particular voters should be disqualified ; but he could
listen to no measure declaring, that because the freehold was low,
the elector was not entitled to as good a vote as if it were a freehold
of large value. For his own part, the only freehold he possessed
in the county of Durham, was not of more value than three pounds,
yet he felt himself as competent to vote as any individual, however
large his property might be. (A laugh.) It was idle to suppose,
that because the quahhcation was heightened, all was at once to
become pure. At Knaresborough, nothing was more common than
to have electors come to vote without seals to their deeds ; true,
they had • freehold lease, but then the fee was reserved, and
clauses introduced, to destroy the freetiold tenure. The sante prac-
tacts were carried on in other places. The Hon. Gentleman, after
some further remark said he was satisfied, that if the original course
were pursued by the friend. of emancipation ; if they relied on the
triumphant majority in that house, there was no apprehension but
that the House of Lords would hesitate in granting Emancipation.
tilled for, as it would be, by the House of Commons, and answered
as would that all be by the voice of their constituents. (Hear.)
Sir R. SHAW declared he did not know a measure more cal-
culated to conciliate the mirds of the Protestants as the proposed
reform in the elective franchise. He had received several letters
f.-om Protestants in Irehod.stating that if the elective franchises
were modified, and a provision made for the Clergy, all opposition
to emancipation would be done away with. (Hear.) He was
sure that nothing could prove more satisfactory to all parties.
Sir J. NEW PORT was anxious candidly and openly to state
that the measure proposed by the Hon. Gentleman opposite was of
tha most vital and pressing importance. He had it in contempls- '
that at one tune to submit a similar measure to the consideration I

of the House , in his great anxiety to smooth the way towards
car-
rying the Emancipation Bill ; of that Bill he had always been
tne advocate ; he had supported it for three ar.d twenty years in
that Henze, previous ei that he had advocated it, for forty years
been its conscientious sincere supporter. (Loud cheers.) Whatever
armadas:lon he may have derived from his experience, and from
the attention he always paid to subjects connected with Ireland.,
and particularly the right of franchise, he was ready to forfeit if
be faded to convince the House that the exercise of the elective
fninchise,as far as regarded forty shilling freeholders, was pregnant
' with abuse; and he declared his derided conviction that its modi.
fication was a vital question of importance: this he felt himself
called on to say in reply to the Don. Member for Durham (Mr.
Taylor). He believed himself more competent to 'peak on the
subject than that Hon. Member; he believed he might boast of
knowing more of Ireland than him ((fries of " Hear, hear");
and be had no hesitation in declaring that ao one measure was more
fatal to Ireland than granting the right of voting to 40s. free-
holders. No measure produced MOM hurtful results ;no circum-
stance was more calculated to do harm than its continuance under
the present ayttem of abuse and corniptioo. The Honourable
Member to whom he had just alluded deprecated granting '230.00W.
to pay Catholic Priests. De begged to sok that Oentleman whether
i: was better to pay that sum to the Catholic Priests, or be corn.
pelled to pay 3 millions for soldiers ? (Cheers.) It was impossi.
bleit 2otald be otherwise, while .o large a portion of dineontent was
cremed by a continuance in the present system. The result of that
diaconteut was a paralisation of the energies of the country, and an
increase of expense to England. Ireland became impatient of her
wrongs., and famished every day a proof how impolitic was
perseverance in the present course Now was the time for
interfering—it won the most fortunate moment that could ern offer
itself. Now, when we see such an immense press of evidence was
laid before the public mind, and Catholic and Protestant were
&preaching to conciliation—now was the golden opponuaity—lie
implored me House not tole,. it par. tCries of " heat.")
Many opretunities had formerly meter ted themselves of carrying
it, more svoarable than were ever expected to occur again. Those
were let clip—hue trusted they would not let slip the present. (Hear,
btu ta ) A conerreree of they
events now afforded an emir-
miry of resturmg to Ireland that quit and tulquillit:, the ab-
sence of which made her not productive in the ..cane proportion
:bat nature hut been bountiful to her. (Item., hear.) With re.

• N

7'HE BRITISH PRESS

spect to the Elscti re Franchise, he undertook to prove to the satis-
faction of the House, that its abase was moat flagrant; that the
exercise of it was bottomed on corruption. He undertook to show,
in contradiction to those who asserted it, that the right of voting
to 46r. freeholders was no boon; they were not pure, not inde-
pendent, not kee agents. No terms could be more grossly mis-
' applied. They are tied down to the commands of their landlords—
they dare not vote as they.wish, but are cctrpelied to gine their cor-
rupt votes as they arc desired. The Right Hon. Baronet concluded
with saying, that he was not desirous at present I 5 anticipate the
discussion that must subsequently corre on. However, hr could
not but come forward to make the fen observations he Nal thrown
out. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. STUART WORTLEY said !maim:Ad be sorry that any
measure should create a loss rather than a support to the Catholic
Question. The Hon. Gentleman made a few other observations.

Sir R. WILSON said, that those electors should not be allowed
to vote who bad abused their privilege, and if any abuses existed
he was sure a service would be rendered by bringing them before
the House. The question 'ought he brought regularly before a
Committee; evidence may be offered, and facts shown, if they
existed. For his part he would readily go into a Committee and
remove those not substantially free agents, and punish them if
tangible evidence were offered. After some further remarks, the
Hon. Ban. said he was moat anxious to see the provisions of 33
George Ili. carried into effect: that Statute provided, that a
Catholic, after certain oaths, be permitted to vote. Ile wished to
see that applied to every one as fully as to a Protestant. He was
unwilling to per. any new Act that made the franchises in Ire-
land distinct from what it was in England, if indeed the vote were
• bona fide one.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, that if the question were, whether the
votes were fraudulent or real bona fide, he thought other questions
would perhaps follow from it : inquiry would perhaps follow as to
the state of representation in cities and boroughs (hear, hear); but
when he was told that the modification of the Elective Franchise
was essential to the carrying the Catholic question, his mouth was
at once stopped (hear, hear); he was ready to sink all considera-
tions in his anxiety to achieve that desirable object. His wishes for
the Catholics, his desire to restore that peace and tranquillity that
were so long withheld from Ireland, amide him wish to carry the
question with all possible speed. (Hear, hear.) When it was pro-
posed to pay 230,0001. to the Irish Citheiic Priests, it was not
more than was done in Catholic France for the Protestant clergy-
men. For his part he was anxious to leave the question en-
tirely to those better acquainted with tile state of Ireland than he
was. He considered the two measures, the price of emancipation, so
inconsiderable, that he looked on the construction of that man's
mind strange indeed who could object to them, and cause a
dangerous delay (hear, hear). He begged, however, to remark,
that the proposed measures were totally distinct from the Bill of
the Hon. Ban. Alt parties were agreed as to that question, though
some might say the proposed prim was too large, others too little.
Air. TRANT made an observation, the import of which we
were unable to collect.
Sir F. BURDETT most certainly concurred with the Noble
Lord who had just sat down, that if it could be shewn to bin, that
there existed • necessity for agreeing to the proposed 'measures for
the purpose of carrying emancipation, he would most decidedly
vote for them : if even they were more objectionable. he would rest.
dily vote for them ; for he considered Catholic emancipation para-
mount to all other things. When be heard the stipends to the clergy
objected to on the ground of econamy—when he heard the notion of
money introduced to mar the arrangement. he owned he felt a little
astonishment. As far as he was concerned, he has no connection
with either one or the other of the new measures. He did not wish
to implicate himself with them or to mix up the Catholic Question
with other measurer. unless he knew the price to be gained by such
a proceeding. For, perhaps, he might lose as much on the one
hand as he gained on the other. He was of opinion, that some-
thing must 1.-, conceded in a case like the present. It was more
rational so to do, than stand on abstract principle—abstract prin-
ciple was out of the question. (Hear, hear.) If the proposed
measure was insufficient, he was prepared to make almost any
sa:rifice. The Honourable Baronet went on to say, that lie
would proceed to notice a circumstance which indeed was the
principal cause of his rising ; be alluded to the circumstance con-
nected with Mr. O'Connell, whose name had frequently been
mentioned in the debates in that House. Ile was anxious to
explain a great misconception that had gone abroad with re-
spect to that gentleman. A Right Honourable Friend of his
(Mr. Tierney) stated a few nights back, in allusion to a letter
written by Mr. O'Connell to.the Catholic Association, that Mr.
O'Connell wm not delegated by the Committee to draw up the
Emancipation Bill, although Mr. O'Connell stated the contrary in
his letter. It was but fair to explain, to show host far that gentle-
man's statement was true as to his being desired todraw a rough draft
of the Bill the fact was this, that.ftom time to time he (Sick. Bur-
dett) as well as many other friends to the Catholic Claims, though
not on the Committee, had communication with Lord Killeen and
the other Catholic Gentlemen, t i know from them what the state
of public feeling in Ireland was, and also to consider the best
means of carrying into effect that much desired object. Such
a proceeding he looked on as most rational, fair, and well-
advised. Mr. O'Connell, too, was desired (not by this Com-
mittee) to draw up a Bill that was likely to satisfy ail parties.
No person surely was better qualified for the task from his
intimate knowledge as a lawyer with Acts of Parliament.
At that time it never occurred to him (Sir Francis Burdett)
that any objection would be raised because Mr. O'Connell was an
interested party ; indeed so far from it, that If that Gentleman drew
up a Bill that s>a satisfactory—if he could frame a Bill which he
could conscientiously support, he should have no hesitation in
bringing it before the House. He had no idea of being taunted
with having the Bill drawn up by an interested party, who was,
of course, best able to give information on the subject. Mr. O'Con-
nell, acting under the intimation given, had actually prepared a Bill,
and went away, leaving a draft of it behind him. (Hear, hear.)
It however occurred to some of his Honourable Friends, that the
Bill was objectionable, because drawn up by an interested party ;
it was laid aside, and a new one more like the former Bill sub-
stituted. This explanation it was but just and fitting he should
make (Hear, hear,) that Mr. O'Connell may not suffer from a
misconception. The Honourable Baronet went on to say, he was
glad to see such petitions as that presented to night. It was a good
omen to see such
He
coming from the Protestants of Ireland.
(Hear, hear.) He trusted that the friends of the measure in that
House would not differ on trifling grounds. lie hoped no friend of
it would withhold his support front an alarm of ulterior measures
that may be proposed ; above all things, he wished the Honourable
Gentleman to keep his measures separated from the Emancipation
Bill. He deprecated having them mixed together, that every one
may see their respective merits. (Hear, hear.)

Mr. PEEL did not wish to anticipate the discussion that would
take plate on the second reading of the Catholic Bill ; it would be
unfair to agitate the question then, he begged however to state,
that he would not accept the proposed measures on the ground of
compromise. (Hear. hear.) If there were introduced into the
Catholic Bill a modification of the Elective Franchise, and a State
provision for the Clergy, still it would not change his opposition to
the measure. (Hear, hear.) He opposed it on principle. It was
possible his principles may change; then he would consider how
far the two measures were calculated to diminish the danger. If
his principle were over-ruled by the sense of the House. then an
opportunity would offer of weighing the matter. At present his
mind was not made up on the question. He was not prepared to
say now whether Of not be would propose any alterations. He
would reserve any further observations until the House was in
possession of the details of the measure which the Honourable 1
Member for Staffordshire meant to propose, and to these details
he pledged himself to bring his mind free and unbiassed, so that
he might be enabled to form a fair and liberal judgment.
- •

Mr TIERNEY, acknowledging the great importance of the
subject, felt most anxious to know in what way it was likely to be
received by those for whose benefit It was intended, or whether it
was considered a means of conciliation. Ile had a strong bias in
his mind upon the subject ; but he would not commit himself by
any party declaration, preferring to reserve his opinions until he
had given the subject that attentive consideration which it re-
quired. He would not detain the H. use at present, but he begged
to ;ay one word upon the subject of what had fallen from his
Honourable Friend the Member for Westminster with respect to
the Catholic Bill. It had been said on a former evening that a
distinguished Member of the Catholic Association had been con.
suited as to the Bill now before the House, and that it had even
been drawn out by that individual. He (Mr. Tierney) had then
stated, that if it was so he was Oct !Mare of it, and that he had
followed the impulse of his own judgment upon the Catholic
Question, without reference to the opinions of any individual what-
soever. From the information of the Honourable Member for
Westminster it appeared, however, that although he (Mr. Tier.
ney) had not had any conversation with O'Connell, other
Members of the Committee did hold communication with hint,
but that he had not, as was asserted. been the framer of the Bill
now before the House. lie was happy that an opportunity bid
been afforded of giving this explanation, because every one who
knew the Honourable Baronet must feel that the Bill was formed
in the manner he had represented.
Mr. BROM'NLOW said, that with regard to the conduct he in-
tended to pursue upon this question. he slid not wish to state that
he should be opposed to it, nor would he pledge hiMself to support
it ; but he would say, that lie had lately had considerable carres.
pondence with some of the most respectable Protestant Uentlemen
of Ireland—men whose opinions were of great weight—oleo who
had been habitually opposed to the concession of the Roman Ca.
tholic claims—and he had received from all the assutance that
emancipation, if attended with a provision for the Roman Catholic
priesthood, and a moditication of the elective franchise, would be
disarmed of much of those dangerotts powers which bad hitherto ex-
cited their terror. (Hear, hear, hear.) lie thought., whether Ca-
tholic emancipation was carried or negatived in that House, that it
would be a most becoming measure to provide some certain means
of subsistence for the Catholic clergy, who, while they rigidly per-
formed their ditties to the people, were—he did not mean to use !In.
guage stronger than the occasion demanded—literally obliged to
beg their broad. (Hear, hear.) With regard to what had been
said of the forty shilling freeholds being a mark of slavery, he most
fully concurred. The freeholder of that kind had no free choice—
no freedom of election—no will of his own. He (Mr. Brownlow)
had been told by a Roman Catholic Bishop, that he had met large
hordes of human beings on the road to an election, going, as they
expressed it, to perjure themselves, and unable to offer any resist.
ante to the will of their landlord, lest they should suffer the penal-
ties which would certainly be inflicted. (lieu, bear.) It was also
on the evidence of a sr-ohne to whom he referred, and with
pleasure—he meant Mr. Blake—that it mattered little whether Ca.
tholic emancipation was granted or not, unless some provision was
made for the priesthood. and the elective franchise restrained so as
to temper the power of the landlord over the peasant. The Hon.
tlember concluded by saying, that when these lIICILIUM came be-

fore the House, he was prepared to give them his most cordial
support. (llear.)
Mr. GRANT said, that amongst the numerous evils attaohed to
the condition of Ireland, he had always considered the state of the
priesthood and the freeholders as the most prominent and import-
ant. He had alluded before to the state of the 40s. freeholders,
and explained to the House, that the law of 1793. which professed
to give new influence to the peasantry, had, in fact, proved de-
' structive to the great proportion of the freeholders. The provision
to the priesthood was not only a desirable measure, which would
insure the tranquillity of Ireland, but a measure which would
form a bond of lotion to the empire at large.
Mr. DAWSON said, that opinions and circumstances might be
misrepresented. He thought it necessary to state, that although
the evidence of the Catholic hithops had given Min some new
ideas upon the state of Ireland. nothing had transpired to reduce
his feelings of hostility to Catholic emancipation. He was anxious,
thereforet.to separate what hood been said upon this subject from
that question ; for although he would not by any means coosider it
• compensation for the granting of the Catholic claims, he was
not prepared to say that it would not in some degree do away with
their effects. It would be found. however, that a considerable
difficulty would arise from this alteration in the state of the free-
holds. The Bill proposed to oleo- the state of the elective fran-
chise with both Catholic and Protestant, and by ibis memos the
Catholic obtained a great boon ; but what did the Protestant get ?
—nothing. Ile would ask Gentlemen who were carried away by
the feeling of trarquilliaing Ireland, whether ft was possible for the
Protestant to be satisfied with a measure which took away from him
his right without gisino him anything in return? Many of the
Protestant freeholders in tie north of Ireland were in precisely the
same state as those in England of tl • s one condition possessing
small tracts of ground, and they ough. to guard against commit-
ting an act of injustice by depriving that class of their privileges.
He would not at present offer any opinion upon the measure, but
was content in saying that he trusted he would not be supposed to
have altered his opinion upon the subject of Catholic Emancipation.
Mr. COURTENAY, looking at the petition which had beer. pre.
sewed, could not but congratulate the friends of the Catholic rpm'
the growing attachment and support of their Protestant brethren.
When ha considered the number of signatures to that petition—the
high respectability of the parties, and the zealots sincerity of their'
language, he could not fail to regard its presentation as the he.
binger of abetter day to Ireland. With respect to the two measures
which it was intended to introduce, he agreed with his Right Hon..,
Friend, that whether Catholic Emanc:pation was granted or nor.
they would tend to produce tranquillity and content in Ireland, rod
if the details, which he was anxious to ace, answered his expeeta-;
dons, he certainly should reel himself bound to support bath. It
was his misfortune to differ from many of those he had the bottomq
to represent in that House upon the subject of the Catholic Claims
but he felt bound to say, that though they sow great danger t
England in its present state—though they felt there would be grim
danger in granting what was required by the Roman Cuthultes.-.
yet they thought the introluction of these measures would have
considerable weight in obviating the evil, the
ir apprehended. He
believed that the Honourable Member for Serf nrdshire had no in.
tension of meddling with the Protestant free iolders of the Nord
of Inland, who held their estates in fee, and between whom and
the same class in England there was not the slightest inference
He thought it unnecessary to add his testimony to that of tire Hon.
Member for Armagh, upon the subject of the freeholders being
ordered up to vote. He had hoed for some time in Ireland—he
had seen the condition to which the peasantry were reduced—he.
knew the way they were treated—and he had been disgured by
the power the landlord was enabled to wield for their opptesaion.
He would gladly therefore concur in any measure which would
have the effect of controlling the excessive power of the Irish
landlord, and give his support to the Bill when bought before the
House.

Mr: LYTTLETON, in explanation, begged to say, that he
had not the slightest intention of meddling with the bona fide for,
shilling freeholders of Ireland. The Bill was in:endeti to apply
oniT to the fictitious freeholders erected for mere political purposes.
lhe petition was then brotight up ar.4l laid upon the table.
HOUSE AND WINDOW TAX.
Mr. STUART WORTLEY presented a petition front some
inhabitants of Yorkshire, praying for a rem! of the Howe and
Window Tax.

work wag exposed to public view in tlie whole of its progress and
before hit general plats could be at all developed, No that parts,
which ins enished state would form an harmonious whole, might,
when sten in • detached manner, appear altogether incongruous,
and thus was the architect exposed to a species of criticism not
applicable to other branches or the arts. Since that bulldog had
been commenced, an idea had occurred in the o6ice of the Secre-
tary of State for the Home Department, that in eor.scquence of
several nuisances, and other inconveniences, to make some antra:
dons in that old and uncouth brick building now forming the
Treasury Chambers. It had therefore hem considered, how far it
would be practicable to continue one single faqade with the present
newly-erected building. That plan had certainly not been defini-
tively decided upon, and therefore he was net prepared to state the
precise mode in which the alterations should be executed ; but he
was dreideely of opinion tt.at acm:e such plan ought to be adopted.
‘With respect to the vacancy which Ltd been made by the pulling
down the right Hank of DowMng-wrest, the Horse was aware that
many of the apartments of the Treasury looked towards that way,
sod therefore it was obvious that that part should not be too much
crowded. But he thought it would be very practicable to obtain a
part of the neighbourhood for the public convenience; and it had
occurred is him, that the Exchequer Offices might be brought to
that quarter, instead of being at so inconvenient a distance as they
Dow were. Hut that consideration brought him to that part of the
observations of his Honourable Friend with regard to the building
of houses for the higher officers of the State on the vacant ground.
He considered that part too confined for the accommodation of do-
mestic purposes. With regard to the principle of providing build.
logs for the higher officers of the Stale at the public expense, he
crtaiuly thought that, with some qualification, the suggestion of
his Honourable Friend was well worthy consideration. It might
happen, that many who were called upon to fill high public
situations, were either not provided with or otherwise unable
to procure houses of their own, suitable to that rank and dig-
nity which the nature of their situation required them to sustain.
It never had been usual for the public to provide such accommoda.
don but for three of the principal Officers—the First Lord of the
Treasury. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and the First Lord of
the Admiralty. The house which he at present occupied belonged
in fact to the First Lord of the Treasury. His Noble Friend hav-
ing a very good house of his own, and Do particular reason for occu-
pying the one appointed him by the State, had permitted hint (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) to use it. The house at presentoecu-
pied by that Noble Lord's Secretary was the one destined for the
Chancellor of the Exchequer. The First Lord of the Admiralty re-
sided in the house appointed for him,as the duties of that Noble Lord
made it absolutely necessary he should reside on the spot. He was
quite rcad7 to admit that there were other officers for whonf sonic se
eumm,dation should be provided by the public, and he should name
for one particularly the Secretary of State kir Foreign Affairs. The
nature of that Right Hon. Gentleman's public situation made it
necessary far him to receive many public characters whom
it was proper for him to entertain in a manner suitable to
the dignity of his important station. We had never yet pro-
posed suds a kind of expense on the public, but that was
no reason why such • thing should not be done. He would
not pledge himself to any specific atrangemerA on the subject, but
he could only say that what had been thrown out by the Hon.
Bamnet was worthy of consideration. But in assigning a residence
suitable to the situation of the public Officers, he thought it in-
muntent on us to take care not to push the principle too far. He,
however, did believe that such a measure would meet with the ap-
probation of this House ; foe the reason, generosity, and good feeling
on the part of the British Parliament would ever support what was
requisite to the true dignity and splendour of the State.
Mr. LOCKHARYsaid, be should be in a cotsiderable degree
at the increase of the dignity of any of the Officers of the
State, because he considerdl it would add only to tne difficulty of
access to those persons. He was also alarmed on this account that
it would entail considerable additional expense on the gentlemen
who should fill those situations We were going on very well as
we were ; but was it because the country was now in a somewhat
prosperous condition that Hon. Gentlemen should rise up. and in
a atom at of liberality propose a 1 kinds of expense in order to in-
crease the dignity and splet.nour of the Officers of State ? Let us
/lad first of all whether our prosperity was so permanent as to
enable us to alleviate the public of their i•urthens, and after such
a course had been acted upon to the fullest extent, then was the
time to bring forward a question of public splendour and of public
dignity, and not before.
The
. .

LITTLETON thought there were certain inilividuals, en
pupae as well as private grounds, should be provided with public
buildings, and he would name the Secretary for Foreign Affairs in
particular. Ile was of opinion that many of the Ministers wens
very inadequately paid for the arduous duties they performed.
Mr. W. :Cliff II reprobated the i•ystem of hastily condemning
the public works of architects, and of complaining against the
public buildings. This system bud prevailed too much of late
yeas. and he hoped it would be checked. It was very easy for any
Gentletr.ln to say, " I do rot like this plan, and that performance
was unnecessary." But was nothing to be allowed for the educa-
tion and experience which those gentlemen who were selected by
Government to execute their works had received ?

Mr. MARTIN asked the Hight Hon. the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer whether anything had been done with regard to the Cus-
tom-house, and what would be the probable expense of putting
that building into a state of safe repair ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed, that it
was Impossible to say what the expense of repairing the building
might be. That building was erected by the ordinary surveying
architect of the Customs (a most improper course to be adopted,
and one which he hoped would never be followed again), who made
a contract with the builder. The architect reported that the
builder had completed his contract. But it having been ascertained
that the Long-room had considerably given way, an inspection
took place, and it was found that the building was upon arches.
By the contract there were to be nine pits under each arch ; but
instead of which there were only four piles and a half. This wail
clearly contrary to the terms of the c tract. These pile*, too.
pieces of her, like the masts were to have been large stout pie of
tit
a ship; but instead of such bei•ig the - , they were laCettail'llki
to be merely trees with their branches cut of. This conduct we*
certainly a fraud on the pan of the person contracting to build the
Custom House, and every means had been taken to secure that
part of the expense to which the Government would be put by this
act, and as the {.any was opulent, he had oo doubt a great portion
of •he money would be :ared. Whether, however, there was any
law which could be applied against the architect himself he was
rot competent to say ; the question was under the consideration at
the proper officers, and if any proof' of conspiracy between the
architect and ihe builder should be cliche?. the Government would
proceed Ili-aunt them criminally. In the norm time an attachment
would be issued against their effects, so as to insure whatever ex-
pense might be incurred by their gross misconduct.
Ali. Alderman WOOD said, that the conduct of both posies
ought to be put into a questionable shape. The tint question was,
whether Mr. Laing, the architect, had not in the first place formed
a plan that was imperfect; ard then the next inquiry would be,
whether Mr. Peto, the builder, had performed his contract in such
a manner as he ought. If it should appear that he had been
guilty of a traud, then no punishment could be too great for hint.
He knew that gentleman, but he did not appear in this House to
vindicate his character. He however thought, that before any
judgment a as come to by the House, the party ought to hate a fair
trial. He had heard that Mr. Peto would be able to vindicate him.
self, and was able to meet any *barges that might be brought
against him; it was therefore but just that a fair opportunity should
be given him to do so, if possible.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that what
he meant by speaking of collusion was not with a view of imputing
blame prematurely ; but if it appeared that the building had net
been made according to the specification, and yet that it had been
certified that it was cce formable to the specification, then the course
of the prnceedirg to which he had adverted would be, he cot.
sidered, eh. proper one to adopt. He said this without prejudice to
the conduct of any person.
Alderman WOOD thought that an opportunity ought to be af-
forded for an Investigation into this subject. The individual whose
conduct had been alluded to, bed made* tender for buildings t a
very large amount; and he (Mr. Alderman Wood) could rot con-
scientiously vote for him, unless the prejudice that was at present
raised against him was removed.
Mr. MABEIILY, with respect to the proposal of affording
places of residence to the leading officers of the Crown, was desirous
of seeing them paid and provided for handsomely and liberally.
proportionate to their services and the duties they were called upon
to discharge. He thought the number of officers more than was
necessary. He was anxious to see them few and efficient, and that
few suitably maintained.
Mr. BeRNA L said that Mr. Peto, whose conduct bad been
animadverted upon, bore a highly respectable character; he uo.
derstood that there was an action pending between him and the
Treasury for a litigated claim which he ha! upon it tor a sum ex-
ceeding nO,OOOl. As to the building not beirg strictly conformable
to the specification, he was informed that the specification was in
many instances departed from. Mr. Psto was very generally em-
ployed in the erection of large buildiega; he was at present en.
gaged in the large panoramic building which was being erected in
the Regent's Park, and in other equally lower:sot architectural
undertakings. 'l'he cause of the Lore-room of the Custom-house
falling in was owing to defective piles. Besides, the foundation
was originally bad. It should be also borne in mind that the arshi-
teet was not responsible for any failure that might occur. There
were persons whose duty it was to watch and superintend the build-
ing in every stage of its progress. At ell rents, the judgment
of the House should be suspended until a proper investigation had
taken place.
Mr. A. BARING, with respect to the proposal residence
for public offices, thought it a proposition that deserved to be
entertained and supported by the House. He was engaged in
mercantile pursuits at an earlier period of his life, morn attentively
than now, and he found that his business could not be duly attend.
ed to it he were at one end of the town whilst his business was car-
rying on in die other. In the same way, therefore, he thought it
alt extreme inconvenience to the public for the first Lord of the
Admiralty to have his office at Whitehall, whilst his residence might
be at Portman-square,or at some other remote pert of the town.. He
did not say this with a view either et' preparing any extravagant
buildings for these high officers, or an increase to their salaries,
though he by no means thought them overpaid, but on the ground
of the public conrciience that would arise Loin their having re-
wieners adjoining respective offices.
Sir M. W. RI DLLY suggested the propriety of providing resi.
deuces for certain high officen in the new buildings about to be
erected in Downing-street, with a view to the despatch of public
business. He did not mean to recommend extravagant buildings.
lie did net wish to speak with harshness of anything that had bete
done, but he certainly did not ree the advantage of the double.
roofed style of architecture, such as they saw every day on these
way to that House. This second tcof could be of no use that he

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