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colleded, that his principal objea was an enquiry
into the comparative merits of the late Board of
Admiralty, and that which immediately trreced rd
it. Of these, the Noble Lord described the official
conduet to differ in many material respeets ; but
principally, in what is urged AS matter of accusation
against that, at which he had the honour to preside;
the purchase, unnecessarily, of many useless vessels.
which could not be well applied to the service of
the Navy ; and also, to the bottling of ships of
war preferably in the merchants yards, contrary
to the usual pradice of their predecessors. The
subject, extensive, various, and complicated, as it
Was. was one to which, for more than one reason,
he had paid particuler attention. Wishing that
their Lordships, in general, might have an oppor-
timity of doing the same, he not only had agreed
to the production of almost every one of the papers
required by the Noble. Earl, but laid before the
House many additional documents, upon his own
motion. With resped to his objection to the pro-
ducing e copy of the correspondence between the
Admiralty and Navy, and other subordinate boards,
he had apptised the Noble Eatl of its complicated
and voluminous nature, and that it would tend to
throw very little, if any light, on what he wished
to illustrate. From all these, it appeared, the only
use the Noble Earl could make was, to refer to the
cases of the ships Rini/often and Mediator, respell-
ing which he made some quotations. It would
defeai the objea of the Noble Earl's inquiry,
did he confine his comparisons to that of the
late with the termer Board of Admiralty. He
should compare that with the condud of the Boards
of Admiralty for twenty years back ; and, on
that ground, he would freely join issue with him.
The part of their conduet so much arraigned by the
Noble Earl was, in point of fad, founded on the
example of every respedable Board of Admiralty for
twenty years past. He was astonished at the Noble
Earl's now laying so great a stress on the Sixth Re..
port; that document lay near twelve months upon
the table, and now, the 23th of May, it for the first
time occurred to him to come forward upon it.
This. from what he understood, was not the pur,sort
of the Noble Earl's intended motion: he understood
from him, as proposing to bring something forward
on the papers he had moved for himself The prin-
cipal charge now made resolved into two leading
considerations : firs!, the circumstance and ill died,
of purchasing the vessels ; and, secondly. the in-
creased expellee attending that plan. The build-
ing preferably in the merchants yards was also
another consideration. With resped to these, it
may be in the rev ilesfion of some of their Lord-
ships, the state aril feelings of the country. and
of the House, at the time, about twelve months
sio .vhen a Noble Marquis (Stafford) was
shunt to bring forward a motion upon the state
of the defence of the country ; they may recoi-
led what was said about that time respeding the
necessity of con:cling a number of smaller ves-
sels to aft against the small craft destined for the
invasion of the country. A great deal was certain-
ly said upon it. Whether that clamour was well or I
ill founded, he should not now consider ; but cer-
tainly trader the prevailing impression at the time,
he felt it his first duty to inquire where a large
flambee of such vessels could be purchased. To
co-operate with these large bodies. of sea fentibles
were &eared proper, and these were accordingly col-
leded. On the other hand, he found thirty-nine
ships had been previously contrailei for. He called
for the contrads which had been made, and found
they were for a longer periad than was necessary
—With resped to adual preparations, fifty-one
new vessels were procured, and ushers colleded, to
an aggregate amount of I7h sail, nearly double
the number that were before used in these ser-
vices. Undoubtedly the additional expense was
considerable; but he had no hesitation in saying,
that it was necessary to incur it. The impression
which prevailed at the time, was properly a consi-
deration. The measure had its effed in quieting
the apprehensions of the people ; for, after that, no
frays were expressed. Another measure adopted
about the same time, was the providing an efficient
force for the North Sea Station ; an object of con-
siderable importance, which also had its efed upon
the mind of the country; it made a part of that
system, which was laid down for restoring the
Navy of Britain to its pristine vigour. When he first
cartse to the office, he required an accurate Report
from the Navy Board, respeding the number, the
nature, and condition of ships in His Majesty's Navy.
Upon that Report he determined to regulate his
condud. A leading feature of that Report was the
complaint of a want of ships of the line. At the
same period, the great accession of the naval force
of the enemy, by those of Holland and Spain, was
to be considered ; not only the number of the
vessels France would thus obtain, but vessels ob-
viously in a better condition than ours, on Account
of their being fresh, and not exposed to service.
Correspondent exertions on the part of this country
became necessary ; its safety was at stake; and
such were made, lu less than ten mouths, ten ship
of the line were got ready to replace thoses
which were rendered by hard duty unfit for
alive service : to keep up the future necessary sup-
ply, became a more serious consideration, and this
necessarily led to a recurrence to the Merchants'
Yards. They found in May 1804, that of sir( ships
building in the Kr .g's Yards, „ale had adlually
been laid down so far back as 17E2, and some of
them were not expeded to be ready before 1807.
These were fads, they Tors- for themselves..
It farther appeared, that of c. a. ships tar the line
determined to be 1)9;4 io the King's cards, even
the keels of none of them had then !,^eis laid t the
reasons alleged were the went of nneerials and of
hands. 'they were then compelled to 'lave recourse
to the Merchants' yards; they Lead no other
moans of supplying the wants of the Navy, .41,d it
was their duty to recur to them. Indeed. this de-
cried system had been some time afted upon by the
Board of Admiralty of which the Noble Earl was
the head ; but, to his great surprise. on the 13th of
January 1803, he found an order expressly pro-
hibiting the building any more vessels in the Mer-
chants yards. However, frotr raesta and these only,
was it found predicable to supply the wants of the
Navy. He would ask, whether, sun particular period
of the year 1304, the slips in the King's yards were lit
for building ships ter the Navy ? It they were, how
came it that none of the keels of the five sltips were
laid down Whea the Nine's yards v,•; re in such a
state, could any man be so ioia:uated as to look to

them for the necessary supply ? It was not a wild
project of his own. Were he erroneous in that
part of his conduct, so were many of the ablest
first Lords of the Admiralty the country ever saw.
He only followed in the wake of my Lord Sand-
wich, Adm. Keppel, Lerd Hawke, Earl Chatham,
Earl Spencer, and, in some degree, of the Earl of
St. Vincent himself ! All these found the necessity
of recurring to the Merchants' yards Of one
hundred and twenty ships in commission. thirty
five ships of the line were so built. In the period of
Earl Sandwich's Administration, one necessarily
of great exertion, one hundred and twenty-five
had been built in the Merchants' Yards, and only
forty-one in the King's Yards. In subsequent Ad-
ministrations, more or less, according to circum-
stances, were built in the respellive yards, In periods
of peace, where no urgency operated, the uni-
ferm practice was, to build in the King's Yards,
and so it was from 17d3 to 1794, when the ex.
igencies of the country drove them again •to
the merchants' yards: from 1794 to 1801, the
proportions were seventeen ships built in the Mer-
chants' yards to five built in the King's. These
considerations rendered the general propositir so
clear, that no man in his senses could dispute it. In
animadverting on the conduit of the preceding
Board of Admiralty, the Noble Viscount referred to
some parts of the correspondence between that and
the Navy Board, &c. ; and quoted a letter of it
A. S. Hammonds. wherein the opinion of the No.
We Earl then at the head of the Admiralty (St.
Vincent) was for the urgent necessity if build:ng
7lt's in every part of the kingdom where it was
predicable. Th s was a strong argument in
favour of the system afterwards Si reprobat-
ed by that Noble Earl himself. Under the
same authority, advertisements for building ships
in private yards were published. Perhars the in-
diposition of the Noble Earl prevented him from
duly attending to that part of the official business,
at the time. To consider the point farther, there
was nothing in the then state of the navy, to war-
rant so abrupt a change of system, and so opposite
an opinion, conceived at the end of a fortnight, the
interval between the expression of his convidion of
the necessity of recurring to private yard., and the
issue of an order to build no more in them ;
it was incumbent on the Noble Earl to explain this—
why there was such a change in sentiment, between
the 10th Dec. 180'1, and 13th of Jan. 1803 He
rested his case upon the stubborn evidence of fads,
and even could quote the authority of the E trl of
St. Vincent, ageinst the pradice of the Earl of St.
Vincent. Another consideration was, with respeet
to the difference between the then first Lor I of the
Admiralty, and the Comptroller of the N.tvy. tie
would ask that Noble Earl, if he thought Sir
A. S Hammond unfit for his situation, why he
suffered him to continue in it ? For his part, he
thought the greatest harmony ought to exist be-
tween the Comptroller of the Navy, and the
fir .t Lord of the Admiralty. It was essential to the
service of the Navy, that a familiar, frequent. and
confidential intercourse should exist between them.
‘Vit4 leaped to the loud objedion of expence, as
greater in the merchants than in the King's
yards, such etas the case, that every pairs
were taken on that head, but there was no alter-
native ; they must either incur that expence. or go
without the sh•ps. Another point dwelt upon was,
the late partial successes of the enemy, in the West
Indies. With respect to this, he would ask, was it
wise, or was it possible, eternally to keep up the
blockading system ? Were there no fluduations of
wind—no changes of weather. to countera,t such
operations 1 In the beginning of war, a stria
blockade may be necessary ; the ohjefts of it were
principally to enable us to enlarge and strengthen
our state of defensive preparation, or moans of of-
fensive Attack, and to rranquillise the minds of the
people. during the time ; but it was impossible to
keep up always a close blockade ; in the intervals,
opportunities are unavoidably Afforded the enemy to
slip out ships or small squadrons, and that very
consideration should increase their anxiety ten-fold
to increase the number of the line of battleships; and
bete recurrence to the Merchants' Yards became
necessary. In fad, in perils of war or of exigency,
there was no doing without them. By the system
adopted by the late Board of Admiralty, before the
expiration of seven mot ails. the country would have
a naval force of from one hundred and fifteen to
one hundred and twenty sail of the line ; a force
adequate to every necessary purpose, to hold the
enemy completely in check, and to afford the
most perfect security to the country. Indeed, it
WAS on its navy that the welfare, the happiness, and
the safety of the country depended. There were
some topics adverted to by the Noble Earl ; such as
the departure of some of the artificers from certain
yards, and of that pecttliar nature, as, he thought,
could not be safely agitated ; from entering into that
pat of the discussion, he must, therefore, refrain.
He must say, that it was by no means owing to
the preference given by Government to die mer-
chants' yards. There were some pr lots of subotdinate
regulation, where improvement would be desirable,
it was felt by all. Ohj lions were easily made,
but amelioration was not so facile, difficulties ex-
isted, which were slot so easily overcome as some
Noble Lords seemed to think. Plans were laid
down for ameliorating these things. for the better
supply of the yards with the necessary articles, for
encouraging the produetions of the country ; these,
he trusted, would be persevered in, and, he little
doubted, would ultimately produce the wished-for
effe is.

The Earl of ST. VINCF.N r row and said, that
he wished for nothing so much as the inquiry which
had just been moved tor, as he was certain it would
tend to thew which of the two modes of building
ships (or the use of Government was the more ad-
vaniagenus. He bad never hesitated in giving a
pteterence to those built in His Majesty's Dock-
yards ; because he was convinced that, from the na-
ture of the workmanship, the seasoning of the tim-
ber. and the superior quality of the various articles
used in the construilion of a ship of war, there could
be no possible comparison between these provided
for the D.ck-yards. and those made use of in the
merchants' yards. He had accordingly ales! on
that opinion which he believed to be riht, and, on
that point, was ready to stand the test olany inquit y.
His Lordship then passed some very severe strictures
un the formation of the Navy Board, as coantsfted
with the Admiralty ; adverted particularly to the
dice of the C umptroller of that Board, which, as

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held that high and important office.
The Duke of CLARENCE said he shmild csra
tainly vote in favour of the Motion of Ili,
Friend, because he th sught Inquiry of every k;ra
WAS necessiu y, when it had hero so incontrovertibly
proved, that the m rat glaring, hard:iced, infamous
and flagitious trellis and puce datioas existed in every
department under the Onvet nmeet. Royal 1.,
nest particularly referred to the Sixth Report relative
to the Woolwich Yard ; congratulated the country
that his Noble Fi lend near him hal hetet at ti,e
head of the Admiralty, by which he had been al&
to draw the aussitiuis of His Majesty's elielsurs
to
the various abuses which existed in that extensive
department, the good and efficient condua nf whi-m
was so truly essential to the vital safety and
hh.‘4ll
of this country, and its foreign prhse;.it.o., 0. •
no percnn called the attention of 0.1..,4.e5:
it during the pieseni Se%-ami, lie Would C4ZAII
do early in the next. With reipc.ft to t..e questa
of shipNg, it had [wet; allowed from the hen ead
closest calculations. that there we.rtednottt,arnt m
one t
5,200 shipwrights in the country, n
at least of these were engsigrat in the ship yard"
higher wages than they could poisibly obtain froat
private yards; when it was therefor° con.idered,
that the other half were dispersed in the var Mus and
numerous dock yards throughout the kingd stn, that
they worked for less wages, and that the timber grad
other articles could not he supp wed to be in any
degree equal to those used in His Majesty's Dec:
Yards; Ile was, therefore, feelingly alive to thy
subjeift, and was sorry to find, from tbo-e who ha.(
paid due attention to the rith Report, that it WAS the
opinion of every intelligent naval charaaer, that a'
same radical retorm iras not spee lily adop;el in that
department, oer naval greatnesa and suaeriathr
most speedily moulder away. The Mole
count, to his great astonishment, had argued mass
forcibly against the blockading system; if that
argument was true, he knew no one who was
so extensively err ,rig as his L mdship; for, by con-
tinuing that very system of Isiocka it, in the way he
had done, the enemy had slipped out, nil:WT..7i
after squadron, and, we have received ;he mosr me-
lancholy and induhitable accounts of the ravage%
some of those h„ve committed on c,:r settkmer.:.
in the West Indies. The Rochfort squadron has
been truly triumphaat in those seas, and yet, hew
the commanding officer of that squadron would ac-
quit hims%lt for not having done more than he did,
with such a superiority as he had in those seas, it
was to him impossible to guess. This he was sere
of, that if an English commander, under such cir-
cumstances, had d ,ne so little, he mould have beret
brought to a trial, and doubtless pani .hed, for los-
ing so golden an opportunity of distressing the
enemy in their most vital part. Ibe tai was,
the French commonder rn,;ht have nearly de-
stroyed all our West ludia Island-. in which
are contained six nollimis of property ; and, is
that was not a subjece of Naval Inctiry, he con-
fes,ed he was at a loss to know what .vas He shucLi
he glad to know whether Minist-rs can lay their
hand; o s their hearts, and say, that the great ainl
combined fleet is now at Cud's, which was at Cashes
some time ago? He was afi aid not. There seemed
to have been a most apparent and glaring negligence
in that very important dep r.ment, during the ad-
ministration of the Noble Vii a out and he %mutt,
therefore, give his hearty a,,ent to the inquiry
moved for by his Noble Friend.
Viscount STD NIOUTI I thought no possible public
advantage could arise from the agtation of the pre-
sent question. No charge had been m tie ag unst
either the Noble E era (e.r. Vincent), or the Noble
Viscount (Melville). He would not enter into the
argument, whether the larger or smaller number of
ships purchased or employed was more advantageous
to the service: tle.t was not called for on the
present occasi m The chief point in which his
Noble Friend ( Earl St. Vincent) was implicated.
was, as to ships belt i.s the King's Dock-yards;
and whether those were preerable to such as
were built in private Do.k.yards? His Noble
Friend, in the very outset of his Administration
at the Adre;ralty, had thought it prcper to risk
the dock yards, in the c wise of which he was
convinced of the necessity of ad ling to the timber;
and had, the;efore, allowed that building ships in
men chant might be-res. r ed to in a certam de.
Free. (hi further consideration and commoinica-
tion on the subject, his Noble Friead became of opi-
nion, there Was no chance of destroying monopoly.
unless rneaos could be round of employing all the
artificers in the Kii,g's Yards is order to preve.a
migation. It spa , t eref, r , thought necessary,
by his Noble Friend, to have off building in Mer-
chants' yards; and, in order to oh air as large
A supply of timber as p u hie, his Nob e Friend had
prevailed nn a certain great somi.erchil body ((be
hart ineta ('ompaho) to abstain fri na huildiug for
two ye irs, and it WAS only .1 sin 11 psrt ;is Noble
Friend's plan to keep the price of tin be J. wn, and
as low as possible. He expressed h mae.f r xtremelr
sorry for the misunderstanding which tad subsisted
between his Noble Friend, the ri s Lord f t!.e Acte
miralty, and the Comptroller of the Navy ; but lie
objetted to the prnduinion of the pa:•er, muveJ for.
as it could not lead to any good inirprse. lie ex-
pressed himself to he conscious of the necc-oity of
a reform in the Dock yards, and he was Certain that •
Governmeat was desirous to give every insieht into
it through the medium of the Reports of die Naval
Commissioners.
Lord HOLLAND said, he washed to know why ,
the Noble Viscount, who had je• t sat down, shnold
objefi to an inquiry, in which the gallant .Adtairal,
whom he stiled his Nsble Friend, might have el' -1.
partuoity of proving the malevolent charges agaia,t
him not to be true ? The Noble Viscount air the
Noble Admiral were both in that same Administra-
tion, which was deteribed as most weak, inefficient,
and imbecile. They equally participated in the;
honourable description; and what, said he, Its'
since happened? IVliat has been the material ale •
ration? For his part he could see none further than
this, that the Noble Viscount had beets made
President of the Council, to assist and support
the Administration of that Right Hon. Gentleman,