The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1821-06-30 00:00:00

DUKE OF CLARENCE.

The CHANcILLoR or the EXCHEQUER moved
the Order of the Day for the House resolving itself
into Committee oa the grant to the Duke of
Clu•ence.

Mr. CREEVEY thought that it was by no means
too late to appeal to the forms of the House to de-
feat the proposed grant, awl before he sot down
he would move for the postponement of the order
until some dishiest day, which would Froduce that
effect. Ile thought that the subject bad been
treated iu an unconstitutional manner by the advo-
cate* of the measure. It was a deviattoit, if not
from the law, front the usage of Parliament, in
attempt to annex this pooceetling to somethuog
which had been dune two Parliatnents ago. it was a
preposterous proposition, and in direct violation of
all the rtilea of Parliament. He wished to treat this
grant as he would do in the c use of any other in-
dividual to whom it might be proposed to make it.
All that had been said iii favour of it amounted to
Chia, that the Duke of Clarence was at liberty to
make the application, and succeed in it if Parlisi-
orient should be foolish eirouo,l to accede. This
course was contrary to the (betty of the Crown,
igtosl Ministers ought, as iti other cases, to have
brought a message down fur the occasion, that the
House might have had that much more reason fur
compliance. His next objection to the grant was,
that of Ministers being thus converted into instru-
ments of favouritism to the Royal Family. The
worthy Alderman near him had stated, that a pro-
guise male to the Queen by Moister., as to a snot
fur utrolit (especially for a house for her Ma-
jesty to live in) had been broken. It was per-
kcily preposterous to suppose that Ministers
could thus he allowed to act as instruments of
favouritism to one part of the Royal Family, while
they were at liberty to break their etsga4effieula
with and endeavour to sacrifice the Queen. Her
Majesty surely bad as much right to consideration
as the Duke of Clarence. Hr knew of no member
of the Royal Family besides her Majesty alto had
ever refused a grant of money because it was too
much, or more than the people ought to pay. She
had proposed of herself to reduce the 50,000!. a
year to 35,0001., by accepting which the public had
in six years, from 1814 to 1819 (both inclusive(
saved 90,0001. The Doke of Clarence refus-
ed the allowance offered him altogether, and on
very different grounds. The Queen was tint
only neglected but defrauded of that which
had been promised, while it was proposed to
Pay the Duke of Clarence arrears, which
he had refused. This was verrhard upon the peo-
ple of England. It was quite enough to ask them
to provide for the Duke of Clarence in future,
especially when they had been called oat in the same
Session of Parliament to make provision for the
trial of the Queen. It was not for the pleasure of
the people that the Queen was hied ; the people
were entitely against the proceeding ; they coo-
'Wert(' it as a most iniquitous course for Ministers
to take. It was hard upon them to be required not
only to pay for it, but to make provision besides
for ooe who had acted so conspicuous a part iu that
measure, so fatal to the character of the Crown and
its advisers. The Hon. Member eulogiard the
sentiments of the speech of the Noble Marquis
(Titchfield) delivered the other night upon that
very subject. He wished that the people of Eng-
laud could have been present to have heard that
speech ; it was fit to be written in letters of gold,
mid preserved as an eternal honour to the speaker
and has family, and to chew to the Royal Family
and their successors how much they must degrade
themselves by embarking in te cause the object of
winch was the unjust persecution of one of their
uwu body. That was indeed a disgraceful trial—
sod never could lie forget the ferocious manner in
which the rouble person alto now cause forward to
ask them for money--
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY put it to the
Chair if the term " ferocious manner" was within
the boundaries of discussion allowed in Parhanseot.
The SIottAKER conceived that he need not inform
the Hun. Member that he hail transgressed those
rules which the House had always pteactibed to it-
self to regulate di.cassion.
Mr. Cite:sere said, that he was otily speaking of
the conduct of the Noble Peer now making appli-
cation fur money on a public measure which had
been granted elsewhere--
The CHANCILI.oit of the EXCHIRQUIR spoke to
order. Whit might have take.' place in another
House could never be uthored as a motive for the
guitlasoce of that House ; and to risertboot such a
motive must be as disorderly a- to oume the king
in any way so as to influence the conduct of the
House, which was well known to be entirely out of
order. • ,

Qtr. Cagrarr by no argue wislird lo go out of

his *ay to say any thing against the Doke of Cla-
rence; but • trial had taken place in another
House—the Peers had published their protests with
regard to that transaction, and he had • right to re-
fer to them. He had beau present during the whole
of that trial—he had beard the Duke say " Not
Content" to the question in a tone, and with • voice
and manlier fir which, considering that it was a
woman and his own cousin to whom he was oppos-
ing himself, he must be allowed to say he had never
witnessed, never heard or seen such a thiug iu civi-
lised society.—(Order. order.)
The SPEAKER raid that there was no one more
anxious than himself to defend the privileges of the
House; but he put it to the Hon. Member if the
privileges of the /loose could be more substantially
infringed or violated than by persons elsewhere
publishing their remarks on the manner in which
Members of that House conveyed their sentiments
on the measures under discussion. Ile said this
without any reference to the Geis belonging to the
case which had been mentioned, of winch he was
most anxious to keep clear ; but certainly it could
not he orderly fur Members to comment on the
manner in winch Members of another legislative
assembly thought proper to discharge their duties.
Mr. CREEVEY apologized for having been carried
sway by the warmth of his feelings on the occasion.
He would not advert to the questionable part of his
subject, but he contended that lie was perfectly
justified in his observations on the expenses of the
trial, and in the objections which the public enter-
tained both to the proceeding and those expences.
Ile could not do his duly fairly to himself or
them if he were to allow one farthing towards
them. There was another subject to which he felt I
himself compelled to advert, it was that of he Coro-
nation ; Ministers were going to a very great '
expense on the occasion. He knew that the Noble
Lord opposite would say as he had done before, that
it was a solemn and constitutional ceremonial. He
did not deny but that it might be so, but it
was not so regarded by the people. He was
quite sure that it was not at all au object of
national sympathy. Why else, as people met
each other in the streets, did they so invariably in-
quire if the thing were to take place or tint ? This
was proof that some disapprobation W.ll lurking
in the public mind. He was at a loss to know
himself in what way they were to consider it ;
whether as the remainder cf the measure of the
Queen's trial ; whether it was not rather as a
triumph over the Queen than fur the sake of the
coronation of the King. This was the way in
which many viewed it : he could not say if they
were tight or not. Again, he wished to know what
part the Queen was to have in the Coronation, or
what law or usage there was for depriving her of
any part whatever ? He had heard, lie would not
say correctly, that measures were to be taken to
prevent her appearance altogether. flow this was
to be done he knew not, and lie put these doubts
to gait information from the Noble Lord. The
Queen must certainly have • tight to be present,
were it only as a member of the Royal Family.—
He objected to the injustice manifested to her Ma-
jesty, and the more so as it stood in contrast with
the grant proposed to the Duke of Clarence, iri the
allowance of which lie was determined to be no
party.
Mr. BAKERS, jun. thought the allusion to the
Queen • most unfortunate one ; he would not
stop to discuss the question whether she had • right
to the money which she had consented to give up.
He thought her reason in giving up the money be-
cause it wigs too much, must be put on the same
footing as the refusal of the Duke of Clarence to
his allowance, because it was too little. Ile thought
his Royal Highness perfectly consistent in now
coining forward to ask for that allowance, having be-
fore refused it. The Duke had stated that as he was
about to marry a Royal Lady. he would not accept
of the grant, because he supposed that she would not
consent to reside in this country, having to live
on so small • sum. That Lady, it appeared, had
generously undertaken to live iii this country with-
out wig, increased allowance whatever. The con-
duct of his Royal Highness was uo less liberal in
regard to the public iti refusing a grout, because
lie expected that it would be spent out of the
country. It was not until he was assured of the
settled resolution of his consort to remain here that
he load come forward to ask for that allowance.
As to the annual grant, there was but one opinion,
and he would most cordially vote for granting the
arrears.

Mr. HABBORD said, that he had already declared
that he would allow the 6,000/. a yea►, but that he
would object to the arrears. He thought the
Queen's Cabe pettedly in point; she might as
reasonably come forward and claim the 105,0001.
which she had given up. He lamented that the
meats had been brought forward in any shape;
the mention of claims, as applied to his Royal
Highness, was equally unfortunate. lie wished to
abstain both from adulation and insult; he would
vote for the grant, hut he would oppose the arrears.
Sir 1. COFFIN said a few words.

Mr. G. BgNNKTT opposed the grant altogether,
having seen nothing to induce him to alter his opt.
To one topic mentioited he was compelled
to advert—he meant the Corobstion. He must
say that lie begrudged the expense of it altogether ;
not that he would begrudge it to the Royal Person
himself, whom he was not one to insult, but the
ceremony was ill suited to the poverty and &greases
of the country. To use the words of • great au-
thor, " it is not fitting that • country so sick at
heart should look so well its the face." They
heard from every quarter of the British kingdom
complaints of distress, while they were about to
waste 100,0001. on a pageant. In lormer times
• coronation was considered as a solemn covenant
between the King and his people, even in a stronger
sense than that which lisi beets given to it by the
Noble Lord on a former night. Charles 1. had
adverted to his situation in relation to his subjects
before end after his Coronation, but latterly the
sense in which these things were looked upon was
altered. A Coronation was not now to be con-
sidered in regard to suit and service ; it was
reckoned as a mere shear. tie could not help think-
log that it would be considered so by the people at
huge; he was likely to hear of it, but not to see it ;
be would be thinking every moment of the time
which it was likely to occupy, of the hundreds of
fentilies which had been sold sop in the coarse of
the year to pity taxes, whose musely might have
been obviated by a sum no larger than the ex-

penes would amount to. If the condition of the
country were prosperous, if the store-houses
were filled, and the granaries abundantly sup-
plied, he could have felt no objection to this tem-
porary profusion ; but while there was nothing
to be heard hut the voice of mourning in our
streets, he could not help thinking what good
effects might be produced by laying out so much
money in some way or other to diminish the
general distress.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY could not help
protesting against the exaggerated descriptions of
public distress made use of to cover attacks on a
solemn and important ceremonial about to he cele-
brated. He professed not to understand the sync.
;lathy for the public expressed by those who, while
they would not suffer one farthing to be laid out
for the purpose of giving grace and honour to the
Crown, were ready to plunge the country into all
the trouble and expenses to which the interference
with the affairs of the European States so strongly
recommended by them was almost sure to lead.
A coronation was not a mere pageant—it was net an
idle ceremony—it was a solemn covenant between
the King and his people, and Ministers would
have been guilty of• very gross neglect of duty had
they not promptly advised the Monarch to fulfil it.
Among other ill effects which had *risen front a late
measure which had been mentioned, lie reckoned
one of the worst to be the postponement of this
august ceremony. He thought that the feelings of
the country had been wrought on at that time
chiefly by the exaggerations of the gentlemen oppo-
site, who would do much better not to disturb and
excite those feelings as they seemed so dispose to do
of late, by ling to that unfortunate subject.
They forsooth felt their hearts ache at the expense
of 100,000/. to be spent under the regulations of
the law on a coronation, while they were ready to
spend millions in the support of whit they called
the cause of liberty—he called it confusion in the
affairs of continental States. It would be found
that there was no waist of economy, hut that the
whole ceremony would be ordered with a strict
view to that principle throughout. He looked on
the people of England in quite another light to
that in which they were viewed by the llotiourable
Members opposite. He saw nothing of that dis-
content, and that neglect of the Constitution, and
the dignities which belonged to it, described by
them ; he thought that there would be little dis-
content heard of in any quarter, if it were not raised
and ken% alive by the exaggerations of those Hon.
Members. It would, indeed, have. been inning.
litinons and unconstitutional conduct in Ministers
had they not given their Sovereign the earliest
counsel to fulfil that solemn covenant which was
to bind him to his people.
Mr. Heise rejected the imputation of the Noble
Lord ; lie threw back upon him any thing like the
fire-brand character which the Noble Lord had'
described, and which could only he applied to the
measures of the Noble Lurd himself and his col-
leagues, in endeavouring to crush the Queen of
England, the wife of his King, in setting them-
selves up above the laws and the constitution, to
put down, be would say an innocent, and they
themselves must admit, an uasprotei•ted woman.
Under such circumstances had they attempted
to crush !ter. that the feelings of resentment
shewn by the people (he hoped that they would
live long after the Noble Lord had run his career,
and to the end of it he would speedily arrive, as he
(Mr. Home) was quite assured) were such as to
Aviv that they (the people) had been very much
mistaken, when it was hoped that such a measure
could ever be agreeable to the taste of a British
public. He was one of those who had on that oc-
casion done his best to prevent civil war uud civil
commotion. It was too much to tors off the dis-
cussion to a matter of interference with a foreign
Power, as if the expenditure of a shilling was
comprised iu the advice then given. The Noble
Marquis said, that a Coronation was an august and
sacred ceremony. He denied that there could be
any thing sacred in a ceremony which carried with
it direct injustice. Let the Queen have her rights
as well us the King his coronation. The Noble
Lord, there, and a Noble Earl in another place, had
pledged themselves that no diminution of the
Queen's rights should be attempted in future. Was
this then faith ? He knew of no individuals who
bad more just occasion to reproach themselves for
having deviated from those principles of Chris-
tianity which taught the avoidance of oppress
sion and injustice, or who had even shewn more
anxiety to violate them. They had gone as far
as they could in the dangerous course they were
taking. and now he (Mr. flume) and his Hon.
Friends, who would have prevented the catastrophe,
who gave notice of the danger from the first. were
to be told that they were to blame for it. He re-
commended the Noble Lord to be just to the
King and the Queen also. He (Mr. Hume) wished
to see the Sovereign treated as the King of a great
people, but he did not wish to set his dignity de-
graded by the persecution of one of the Blood
Royal. Once for all, he recommended the Noble
Marquis to deal justly to that illustrious and un-
fortunate individual, whom God had placed under
the protection of the British Government.
Mr. F. PALMER deprecated the proposed grants
as one of the most profligate ever proposed to Par-
liament. He was surprised to hear the Noble
Marquis attribute the auger and discontent of the
country to himself and his Hon. Friends. Had
Ministers chosen they might have put a stop to the
trial whenever they pleased by taking a firm mid
decided tone. As to incurring expense by inter-
fering with the Continent of Europe, what was
asked on the occasion alluded to ? Merely for the
Noble Marquis to signify to the Allied Powers that
England would be no party to the measures the)
pursuing, and would never admit the principle of
interlering in national arrangements.
Mr. W. SMITH said, that as to agitating the
public mind by what took piece on the Steal of the
Queen, it had never occurred to him that the
blame belonged to his side of the House. As id
bringing ou a war by interfering with Austria the
other day, they thought that they were rather
taking measures for avoiding than provoking s
war. He could not look upon a Coronation a. th,
Noble Marquis did : it was not a part or Ili,
Constitution, but only a constitutional cerenteo•
Goverisrutut would go on with as effective strength
without it. There was nothing in it which peculi-
arly hound the State. If the people thought that
the King gave up the ceremony to save the wont!.

it would secure him more an; ction and veneration
than the most gorgeous execut►on of it. Time was
that the thing might have been otherwise thought
of; but the people had too much sense to mix
forma with substances, or to ►npp'.se that it could
alter the right of allegiance whether the King were
crowned or not. lie concluded by objecting to
the grant of aurora propnaCJ to the Duke of Cla-
rence.

Mr. B. BATHURST maintained that the corona-
tion was part of the constitution. Hr could prove
it by this, that the oaths could not be taken by
the Monarch except at the Coronation, being pre-
scribed as a covenant, 44 to be administered to
Kings at their respective curt:mations." It was
contrary to law as well as the constitution to neglect
the ceremony. He regretted the lack of respect
sod veneration which had been aliewn in the men-
tion of it. Ile admitted that a similar feeling might
prevail among the public, which made it more im-
perative to go on with the ceremony, so as to renew
the devotion of the people to the Sovereign and the
Constitution. As well might Hon. Members ob-
ject to the form in which Bills were passed w an-
other House, namely, ill a foreign language. He
maintained that the expense of the Coronation would
be generosity beneficial Rothe monfmcsuring interests.
Mr. iionuouss said, that the reason given by
the Right Hon. Gentleman for proceeding with the
Coronation was remarkable—because the public
had no taste, nr rather had a nausea for expensive
ceremonies, they were to force a Coronation down
their throats. As, however. a Coronutiou was not a
thing for every year, but only for every reign, they
might as well have had it on a cheaper scale. He
questioned the good which it was likely to do to
trade. He was sadly afraid that wino they give
with one hand would be taken sway by the other.
There was no necessity fur a Coronation taking
place merely because oaths were prescribed for a
Coronation. It might as well be argued, that as the
Queen's Chamberlain must be present at a Queen's
Caron Minn, the Queen herself must of necessity be
rowned. 1 le wished to know what had been gained by
the Coronutioa of the last long reign, except an eli-
citor for refacing that measure of Coliolic emanci-
pation, which the Noble Lord himself hod come fur-
wind to recommend at the end of it. The Sovereign
was not d'epri,ed of a single power by not taking the
Corofietion oath ; for himielf be doubted the
legaliv of the King being crowned without the
Queen. He would hot atop to ili.cuss the matter,
us there would brother opportunities. He opposed
the grant to the Duke of Clarence. and main-
tained the right of Members to consult their persoual
feelings upon such grants. lie would vote more
money to a Prince whom lie esteemed than to one
whotn he did not esteem. It was not his intention
to apply the observation snore closely.
Lord MILTON said that the oath of the Corn.
nation did not bind the King more than lie would
have beefs booed without it. Massy persons did
not take the oath of allegiance, but who iver sup-
posed that on that account he owed no allegiance.
Ai to the fitness or unfitness of a Coronation, that
must depend on public circumstances.

Mr. (.:11EY EY aria that he would wait till the
Bill was in Committee to oppose the grunt of
weer*.

The House then went into Committee.
'Fbe grant or 6,0001. a year wee agreed to with-
out a dsvissoo.

On the motion fur filling up the time blank
with the year 1818—
Mr. HUME muved, as au amendment, that 1811
should be inserted.

The 31inquis of LONDONDERRY contended that
there was no incoosistency in the Duke's Inswing
now come forward to accept the money, and put
it to the I-louse if they would do any thing to dis-
tress • matrimonial settlement, which was a subject
of such I.,,enrral satisfaction to the country.
Mr. Doug replied, his objection was chiefly to
the precedent of grunting a ra. If Ministers
wished to give more than the annuity, they should
come forward and ask for • specific sum.
The Committee then divided, when there ap-
peared
Fur the Arrears 54
Ageism them

Majority 3O
The Hauge rearmed. and the Report was ordered
to be received to-morrow.

LOTTER! ES. RILL.
Tin` CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then
mowed the arcond reading of the Lotteries Bill.
Mr. G. RENNETT thought is making Lotteries part of
hit ways and means, the Hight Hun. Gentleman (the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer) Ann created these crimes which
%erre afterward 4 punished in anolher form. and he really be-
lieved the Right Hun. Gentleman filled Newple with eri-
rainalt. _ _

Mr. MONCK agreed with the sentiments expressed by the
Hon. Member for Shrewsbury. He observed that in 1817,
which was a year of she greatest distress from the high price
of ei.rn.yet in that year the lotteries were the must productive.
H► did hope that this would be the last year in which this
measure would lie 'nought forward.
Sir B. MORLAND hoped that, in coasideration of the
wishes of emery actions person in the courtly, the Chancellor
of the Exchequer would at least reduce the number uf Lut-
terieb to two iu the year.
Mr. BROUGHAM rose to express ►is surprise at the
silence of the Right Hon. Gastineau, though his surprise
way somewhat dinituished when he considered thst the only
Hops/urns 14 bath he had ever beard in favour of this Bill from
the Chancellor of the Excheqser was, that it brought su so
winch mosey that he could rot afford to be holiest sad give
it up, which was exactly the argument of the Portuguese
Guymon's' fur retaining the African slave trade.
The Bill was sead a secuud time, and ordered to be com-
mitted to-morrow.
APPROPRIATION BILL. _

Oa the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE-
QUER, the HOUGOa went iota a Coassoittee ea the Appeopeis.
him, Bill.

Mr. HUM E said, he would set detain the Hones but a
few minutes; he had proposed to have taken up a longer
poi tion of their time, bet me several of his friends ore that
rude of the House lied his. obliged to go, he should content
himself with so oluervation on one ire two items. He
wished to call the minutes' of the Noble Lord opposite to
the capriole of the office of Paymaster for the Half pay,
which lie thought might be dispensed with, and the expense
to Ike Country saved. The Remuitingtierricealso was a sub-
worthy of their notice. The depot at Maidstone was kept
up at a great expense fur repairs, aut. though it wastrel, a tem.
purary Lerma, whilst there were ptesity of regular barracks
varsiii, and ought be appropriated fur that purpose. He ob-
served un the great amount of the minimal salaries to the officers
of the dock-yards, lobo were, by the altered value of armory,
seceivieg 19 per rent. more than during the war, though
their duties were diminished. The express, of Port Admiral
at Portsmouth mid Plymouth were in 1792 oily 1,470 f. but
now as a full Allsninal was kept at both theme places, the ex-
piton: duwouleti to 3,7861.; the difference be thought night

well he saved, as a Yice.Ad viral would surely he sufficient.
He Omitted as Ministers had agreed to an Address to the
Crown, recommending retrenchment, that the Noble Mar-
quis would lend hie cordial assistance. Oa reconsideration
be was better satisfied with the Addrem which had hero
carried, than with the one which he had himself proposed,
■nd he hoped the Noble Marquis would be fantod a simians
supporter of it. fn the part which he had taken during the
Bevan's, he thought he had proved himself the hest friend
of the Noble Martinis.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY begged to assure the
Hon. Member that neither his Address nor that of his Hon.
Friend (Mr. Bankes) was wasted to enforce on Ministers
• the necessity of economy. He was happy to observe, from
the Liodditiosorr which the Hun. Member had displayed that
the debates of the Session had not soured his temper—that
good humour must make him a very valuable acquisition to
the society which he was going to enjoy.
The Bill was then ordered to be recommitted to-morrow.
METROPOLIS POLICE.

After which the Moose resumed, •nd went i•to • Com-
mittee oat the Metropolis Police 8111.

Mr BENNF.TF objected to the clause for apprehending
suspicions characters, as tending not to suppress crime, but
to put money into the pockets of police officers. He men-
tioned an instance where a robbery of goods to the amount
of 4,000?. was committed, and the merchant on applying
to the police officers was at last induced to give 4001.
when he hod the goods replaced in his warehouse.—
The state of the public parks also were such that ao modest
women could walk in them without insult, except in the
public places. He recommended that an efficient police
should be employed to render those places safe far the
King. lieges to pass, instead of being, as they at present
were, public nuisances. Another subject to which he wished
to call the attestion of Ministers, was the immense number
of fairs is the vicinity of the metropolis. Between summer
and autumn there were no less than eighty-four fairs within
ten miles of London. Whatever use they might have been
of formerly, they were at present only places of assemblage
for all the Noose and disorderly persons of the metropolis,
and more ruinous to youth than any other thing that be was
aware nf. Within gunshot of that House, at Totbill-fields,
every species of disorder was committed with impunity, for
the police were not strong enough to repress them.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL defended the clause ob-
jected to by the Hon. Member, it was in principle the same
as .1 clause enacted iii the 17th George 11. from which no
iocnoveniener bad ewer resulted.
Mr. BENNETT explained.

Mr. Alderman BRIDGES hoped the censure of the Hon.
Gentlemtu was not applicable to the police °Meer, of the
City. He agreed with the Hon. Member in reprobating the
fairs in the neighbourhood of the metropolis, and wished
that they could be suppressed altogether.
Or. LUSHINGTON believed that a very large proportios
of uffeaces bad arisen from permits attending the fairs is
question. Ever since be had been a Member of that House,
he had thosight of proposing a Bill fur suppressing them.—..
If something were nut done by his Majesty's Ministers in.
the ensuing Session, be certainly should feel it his duty to
propose mine measure uti the subject. He .had himself
passed by West End fair at the time these outrages took
place, when one man lust his life, and was a witness that the
police were incompetent to restrain them.

Sir W. DE CR ESPIGNY agreed hi censuring the fairs, as
congregating together • number of characters of the worst
description. Is his neighbourhood, at the fair time, rob-
beries were f►egaeat. The study of Lord Cando', his sear
neighbour, was broken iuto, and the tracks of the thieves
were discovered next morning strewed with Cabinet papers,
which were tieing about the park.
The remaining clauses of the Bill were ply agreed to.
The House then resumed, and the Bill was ordered to be
reported to morrow.

EXTRA POST.
The Order of the Day for the House going Into a Com-
mittee en Ilse Extra Post Bill having been read, on the quo,-
lion that the Speaker du now leave the chair—.
Dr. LUSHINGTON said, he was decidedly opposed
to this Bill, because there was no instance of any coach
starling at or about the same time with the mail
and reaching its destination "ia • shorter or even is as
short a time as the mail. The avowed principle of the
Bill, therefore, which was to give to the public conveyances
a degree of expedition equal to that of any other coach or
conveyance, fell to the Kroond. His next objection was that
the mails established by the present Bill were to travel at the
rate of eleven miles au hour ; which exposed the drivers to
the penalties of the law for driving over persons on the road.
That they would be liable to the penalties of the law, was
proved by ■ case which occured some years ago of the
Norwich mail driving over a man in Biellopsgate-street
and killing him, In which the driver pleaded in justifi-
cation, that he was obliged by his orders to drive at the rate
of nine miles an hour ; hut the Judges held that No orders
either from the Post Office or from any office whatsoever
could justify his driving at such a rate as to endanger the
lives or limbs of persoas passing along the highway. The
r►.e of eleven miles an hour, he contended, readered It al-
most impossible to avoid accidents. A still further objec-
tion was, that this Bill would give to those places where the
extra post was established an undue preference over other..
He should therefore move as an amendment, that the Bill
be committed this day three months.
Sir R WILSON raid that ten miles an hour was a rate of
travelling which be did not think could give offence to ugly
man or could be considered as a violation of any law, unless
accidents from negligence occurred. It was a rate al which
every Gentleasau travelling pest was in the habit of journey-
nig. In addition to that rate of travelling, much of the expe-
dition of the carriage by which the mails were to be forward-
ed under this Bill was derived from its superior lightness, and
the increased facility of changing the hums.
Mr. MONCK supported the amendment.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER defended
the rale of travelling appoiuted fur the mails under Ibis
Hill; the lightness and superior cousirucricus of the carriage
rendered it so much more manageable than the heavy coaches
in use, that it might reasonably be expected to travel at the
increased rale of expedition, without any such lacrosse of
isk or danger as the Huu. and Learned Geotleasaa seemed
to apprehend.
Mr. T. WILSON opposed the Hill. He thought it ex-
tremely objectionable, that while laws were in existe•ce tor
punish furious driving, a Bill should be passed to compel
drivers to conduct which exposed them to the. palmlike of
those laws. On the ground of the expellee of the aseature
also, be shoald vole for the Amendment.

Mr.NrAERE thought the ucw carriages might perhaps
with safety travel at au accelerated pace; bat it appeared I.
him, that Mr. Burgess, the projector, was attempting too
much.
Sir if. DE CRESPIGNY opposed the Bill on account of
the additional cruelty to the cattle employed, to which it
would give rise.
Mr. BEN ETT, from the knowledge he possessed of the
power of horses, would undertake to say, that travelling at
the rate of (levels miles an hour was nut an excessive degree
of labour for them to be put to.
Mr. HARBORD opposed the Bill on three grounds: int.
that of inhumanity to the animals—secondly, that of its ex.
perm—and thirdly, that of the increased danger to the lives
and limbs of his Majesty's subjects from furious driving.

Sir J. MARJORIBANKS hope) She
be extended to Scullion!.
Mr. F. PALM ER lead no objection to this measure as
cute of e=pe►itweal, if it were to be untleriaken at the risk
aus ripener of any individual, and nut at that of the public.
Sir F. OM MAN N EY suporsed the amendment.
The Hesse then divided en the amendment
Ayes .. 2B
None . 32

Majority for the Committee.... 4
On oar rely.", to the gallery •e resod the House in Com-
mittee on die Gill.
Afirr a short conversation, la which Mr. aVarre, Mr.
Spied, she Chancellor of the Exchequer, Dr. Lurhingion,
Sir J. Marjaribauk•, Mr. Basra, Mr. Wry.fealty, Mr. T.
Wilson. and Sir F. Omatamsey, arterially took part, the
several clauses having bees agreed to, the Committee di-

sided on the question That the amines* do report the
itesulutioas to the Huuse.—

A yes . . 33
Noes • 30
Majority in (avow of the Report 3
Oo our re-admisaioa we fuo•d the House bad resettled,
au•l the Report was ordered to be heeivrd on Monday next,
11..L.TRF.ATMENT OF HOR%RR.
Sir W. DE CRESPIGNY presented • peewee from
certsio ialiabitanta of Camberwell, in favour of the lll-
treatment of Horse. Bid —Ordered to lie Noma the table.
Mr. MARTIN (of Garrity) moved the Order of the Day
for resiimiug the adjourned debt.* o* the 111-trestnseut
of Horses Bill.

The onirr or the Day having, bees read. the Tieation Wag
put that t►e Bill he *IIl• read the third tittle; arum which
the House divided. The aunebera were..
Fur (IN third mohair..
Against it IS
Majority t4

The Hal wee then read be thad time earl passed.
The usher Orders of the Day were then disposed sof, and
the Howse adios rued at TWELVE O'CLOCK.

MAJoRITY AND MINORITY

For and against Mr. Haane's Motion for an Addles. to the
Crown, to enforce the moat rigid Economy in every depart-
ment al the State—Jeae 27.