The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1821-06-15 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS, TIIVIIIMALT, luxe 14.

Sir ISAAC COFFIN presented • Petition front r••e•:n
Inhabitants of .Alsr(ate and Sandwich, praying for went. •••
gulation and redacbo• of the light and harbour does pst).L:r
by foreign vessels entering British harbours.—Referred to
lie Committee on Foreign Trade.

ILL-TREATMENT OF HORSES.
Mr. CH ETW YN D presented a Petition from certain Inha-
bitants of Stone, tektite County of Stafford, in favour of the
Bill fur punishing cruelty to animals.
Mr. WARRE presented a Petition from the lnhtbitauts.of
Poplar ■nd Bromley ow the nine subject. Alsu 4 similar
Petition from Manchester.

Mr. Alderman BRIDGES presented a Petition oa the
same 'object from the Pariah of St. Ann, Riachfritirs.
Mr. T. WIISON presented • similar Petition from cer-
tain Merchants of the City of Lending.
Mr. S. BOURNE presented a similar Patin°n from the
Costoty of Glosteuster.
Mr. BEN ETT presented a similar Petition from the
lohabitants of Bath.
Mr. C. CA LVF.RT premeated a similar Petition from
St George's, Southwark.
Mr. GOOCH gave %is cardial support to the Petition.
Three" etitions 'verb sevrrally ordered to be piloted.
POOR I.A WS.
Colonel LYON prosentrd a Petition from the Church-

•
he found the labootiof tile. tommittite had
_en frustrated, and the expectations of the people
of Srot hind disappointed.
Mr. KEITH DOUGLAS mid, he was one of the.
'hers of that Committee, and he was perfectly..
,Jble of the abuses that existed, and of the tie.
,cessity of providing • remedy ; but he should not
'hesitate to ray, that if the recommendations's:of tliF
premed Committee were .carried into effect, everp,
ctical evil would be remedied.
Mr Hong said, he had been a constant eaten* '
goat of that committee, and he could say she corn-
ipiaint of his Noble Friend was well-founded, in
resnect of not being treated with courtesy. But
he (Mr. Hume) was not hurt ; he was accustomed
to he in a minority, and he stuck to his post to
the last, although his friends had deserted him.
They bad-the fullest admissions of the existence of
,these abuses, and a remedy should be provided.
,He was sorry to see all the practical advantages
which he. in common with the people of Scotland.
had fondly hoped from the three years labours
of the Committee, completely frustrated.
Mr. Wit. Minims wished the House to palest
until they had the Report.
Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON said, his oliject
in causing this discussion was, that the attention
of the House should be called to the Report, and
that the minutes of evidence might he produced.
The Report was then ordered to be printed.
Captain O.GDADT discharged the order he had
obtained for some papers relative to the Court of
Exchequer in Ireland, and moved for a series of
papers—fig • certificate, signed by the proper of-
ficer, of the propoitton in which fees were paid to
the Commissioners of Affidavits--of the mode in
which Sheriffs were sworn—and also for returns
of the number of equity causes in the Court
of Exchequer in the years 1817. 1818, and 1819,
upon which no decrees had been trade.—Ordered.
Mr. Passim presented a Petition from Devizes
and its vicinity, in favour of the Bill for the
protection of hones.—Ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. CALCRAFT presented a Petition born the
parish of St. Giles-in-the• Fields against the Poor
Lines Amendment Bill.

On the motion of Lord Mit.Tort, the Woollen
Cloth Stamping Bill was read the third time and
passed.
Lord Nit LTON seeing the Chairman of the Agri-
cultural Committee (Mr. Goods) in his place,
wished to know when it was his intention to lay be-
fore the /louse the Report of that Committee.
Mr. Goucti said he should bring it forward as
soon WI possible. He complained of the Noble
Lord having before @skid the same question when
he wits. not there to give a reply.
Lord MILTON sahl lie had all hi. eyes about, but
had not the gond rortutie to see the Hon. Gentleman.
Mr. DICKINSON presented a Petition from Hatton, in
Somersetahire, in favour of the Poor Laws Amendment Bill.
mr. WILLIAM WI LLI A MS presented a similar Petitiur
from Battersea .—Ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. WYNN brought op the Report of the Welsh Jury
Bill. It we not his intention to found any measure on it.
Mr. Serjeant ONSLOW presented a Petition from St.
Mary, Newington, in favour of the BiU to prevent the ill-
treatment of hones.—Ordered to lie on the table.

On the motion of Mr. SSARLETT, the further
consideration of the Poor Relief Bill was post-
poned to Wednesdoe next.
!SUPPLY OF WATER.

Mr. FIEMANILE raid, that in moving for leave
to bring in a Bill to regulate the supply of water
to the metropolis, he wished to state it was not
Ins intention to press it this Session. It was to be
u temporary measure only, of four years standing,
when► the public and Companies would have a full
cyportunity of joriging of its practical advantages.
The proiluction of the evidence which had been
produced before the Comtnittee, would oily lead
to further discussion. It contained such volumes of
calculation, that all the mathematical precision in
the country could not settle the matter. It could
only be decided by practical experience, He
should therefore move—
" Forleave to twine is a Bill to regulate the Sappy of
Wider in London, Westminster, and t►e places adjacent,
north of the Thames."

Leave was granted, and the Hon. Member
brought in his Bill, which was read a first
and ordered to be read a second time this day
fortnight.
Mr. Hume said, he should reserve for another
opporinnity the observations he had to make upon
the measure.
Mr. Alderman Bait:rags said the Bill should
have his approbation, and eulogised the manner in
which water had been supplied to the metropolis,
and the advsntages resulting from it.
Mr. Hulas sin& in rising to submit his motion to
the House of which he had given notice. lie could
not concur in the eulogies of the worthy Alder-
man. The object of his motion was to produce
the evidence token before the Committee of Water-
works. The House should have the fullest in-
formation before them, and in the absence of that
evidence they should not proceed to make • blis-
five enactment.—[The Houourable Gentleman
then read part of the Report of the Committee.]
—He bud attended with great anxiety to the evi.
deuce produced, and he believed Gentlemen who
had attended would agree with him that a greater
mass of contradictory evidence never was pro-
duced. This he considered one of the stroegest
reasons why the House should pause. They hail
the declaration of the Committee, that none
but interested evidence had been produced, there.
fore the introduction of the Bill without fur-
ther evidence was at variance with the recommends.
lions of the Committee, which stated that no legis-
lative measure should be founded on any but that of
disinterested and scientific men. Up to 1810 the
profits of Water Companies were considered fair;
since then the dividends of the New fiver Corn.
pony hail diminished. In the mean time the Com-
mittee which had sat had come to a resolution that
the benefit of competition promised to the metro-
polis by the establishment of new Companies hail
been frustrated. The expenses of supplying Lou-
don had been diminished by the adoption of iron
pipes, and yet the profits were decreased. Instead
of advising the establishment of higher water rates,
As. Committee should have recommended some
measure fur doing away the conventional monopoly
upon which the Companies laud ■greed. lie was
of 'opinion that the House should call for the evi-
dence produced before the Committee. He was
aware that there were 1,000 pages of it in manu-
script, but they would occupy a very inconsiderable
space its print. He complained of the very 'high

diaries mattilif some of the Complitietremmyor.d
with the others, and concluded by moviritifor the
production of die evidence fidgets before the Com-
mittee.
Me. flostiopst haying attended the Committee,
thought that there could be no objection to the
evidence being produced, and cordially seconded

the motion. -
Mr. Wiutatcr would not object to the motloh.
but justified the conduct of the Committee. If
the Report of the Consuitibirsieie to he rejected
and the Bill proposed by These ‘ were to he thralls
out, the House rioght to re-appoint the Committee
to go through soother examination of the evidence,
to the production of which to the House he had no
particular objection.
Mr. Alderman BRIDGES said, that for the last
eight years one of the Competes-a had not made a
farthing profit. He then spoke in praise of the
extent •ud inefolums of the ostratigenients of the
sevemil'Companies. He agreed to the production
of the evidence, as it would sliew the meritorious
labour which the Committee hid Roue through.
The motive was agreed to without a division.
AGRICULTURAL HORSE TAX.
Mr. Cvawax roar to fulfil hi. motion relative to
the repeal of the Agricultural Horse Tax. He re-
gretted that the lateness of the Session compelled
him to proceed in the absence of the Noble .Lord.
Ile had already deserted to the Noble Lord, and
put off the consideretion of the subj•vt, on the
understanding that the attention or the Govern-
ment would be directed ki the distresses of agricul-
ture. lie had formerly felt himself bound to
propose a substitute for this tax in case of its re-
peal ; but at regret he felt hiroself absolved from
that duty, as the Right Honourable Gentleman
opposite, no less than the House, ~lust be aware,
as a Committee of the. House han determined,
that the country was in a state of unvarolleled
distress. Parliament would be estimated •by the
dcision to-night. It was impossible for the kfri-
cultural Committee to propose any measure of re-
lief this Session. He would then put it to the
Gentlemen who had shortly to re'uru to their con-
stiluents, how they would he tibla to account to
them fur measure of relief not having been proposed
for the agricultural difficulties. It was impose
slide to suppose that the country would return to
prosperity, while agriculture, the heels of all na-
tional greatness, ass declining. Ilad the Esti-
mates which had been voted been proposed at
the beginning of the year, with a full know-
ledge of the distresses which were now known to
exist, they would have been considered profuse,
and not ut all fitted to the state of the country.
Ile thought thst this tax was a very trifling Boon
to grant to an interest so depressed as agriculture.
As to the 'artifice proposed to be made on the part
of the landholder, by the reduction of rents, he had
no objection to it, provided public salaries and
annuities were cut down according to the diminu-
tion of prices. as they had been increased on the
rise of them. It was well enough to talk of
keeping faith with the public creditor; but wus
it possible to conceive, with a diminution of
70 millions on the value of agricultural produce,
that the country could go on paying half its iu-
come in taxes? It had been said that the tax was
a mere trifle on each acre; but it fell chiefly on
lands least able to pay. He expatiated on the
great injustice of the principle of this tax, and the
oppressive manner of collecting it. The collection
of it went contrary to the law of the land. which
held every man innocent until proved guilty; where-
as the agricultural collectors began by supposing
every man guilty, nod proceeded to • surcharr,oe
without exam. g the grounds of the case. He
complained of the iniquitous imposition of a
double tax on some farmers' horses, as beasts kept
fur pleasure and agricultural purposes. He in-
stanced • case of oppressive surcharge made upon
a poor woman at Berwick for keeping en occasional
gardener, merely because she gave a man 6d. for
pruning a fruit tree, the neighbourhood being
obliged to subscribe to rescue her from the ruinous
expenses attached to it. The House would be
amazed to find that there were no less than
99,000 surcharges in one year. He concluded by
moving fur leave to bring in a Bill for the repeal of
so much of the 43d and 52d Geo. 111. as related
to the deities on horses engaged in agriculture.
Mr. Goocti had not altered his opinion as to
the general conduct of his Majesty's Ministers. But
the question was, if they could not consent to re-
peal the tax, whether it would not repeal itself by
the increasing inability to pay it. He was aware of
the necessity pleaded for keeping up the establish-
ments. But really the country was so distressed
that it became a question. if they could not make
the income rise up to the expenditure, whether
they ought not to bring down the expenditure
to the income. And here he must do justice to
the Hon. Member fur Aberdeen, by declaring, that
he had done a great deal of good by the comae lie
had taken upon the Estimates. Ile concluded by
seconding the motion.
Mr. DATINPORT felt the greatest repugnance to
the tax, because it toss a tax on the implements of
husbandry. He did not know of any tax which was
so objectionable, except perhaps that upon salt.—
(hear, hear, frogs Me flpposirion.)—He gave his
entire support to the motion.
Mr. Coax said that it was perfectly delightful
to hear the Hon. Gentlemen opposite. lie himself
bad always entertained the highest opinion of the
services of his Hon. Friend the Member for Aber-
deen. lie bad never known so laborious and useful
a Member of Parliament ; but it was the highest
gratification to hear it acknowleged by Gentlemen
who had supported Ministers in every step of their
expensive career. He had al ways opposed Ministers,
because they had persisted in taxing the country to
its clot ire destruction. As those Gentlemen had inv.-
i viably supported Ministers, it was itstooishing that
they could cume down now with such a pluusible
pretest for withdrawing those taxes, the imposition
of which they had never once opposed ; however, he
was glad of it, and would vote with them as he would
fur the repeal of soy tax whatever. This was his plain
reason,that as lie was opposed to Ministers, and they to
him, and be could get them to give up aothing, he
would take from theta whatever he had an oppor-
tunity of getting. He did nut believe that thee
. tux was of 'half the importance to agriculture us
the malt tax, but lie world support any motion fur
the diminution of tram
Mr. Giros said that he would support the moo
(ton because le thought the tax ought to be re.

AS qll,.

\ i

, J..

Pealed, Ina Ise heti White proposed a substitute
for it, namely, a tax upon the transfer of stock.--
He had since discovered that such a tax could not
have been levied. as the Loan Bill of ISIS would
prevent i►. He inn not of opinion, however, that
funded property ought io bear the same weight of
taxes with that of Isod. He believed the
country .at were now convinced that the
low price of corn was ruionos.--(Hear, hear.)
--Fie would repeat it, that it was his opinion
even the labouring climes would be better er
tiefied to see farm p►oduce at a higher price.
—4le thought the Corn Bill, at the time it
passed. wet an eseeedingly good mestere, bet so
improvement might be made on that system : it
would, in his opinion, he attended with the most
beneficial effects, if the importation price of wheat
were reduced from 10s. per bushel to Ss. a bushel,
and then a protective duty of St. a bushel to be
laid on--

Mr. Banton rose to order. He begged to remind
the Hon. Member that the question was not on the
Corn Law.
The SPEAKER said, it was for the Hon. Member
to way how his observations applied to the question
before the House.

Mr. Gars—Adterling to the tax under cooai-
deration. he would imp, that if the House could do
no more, the agriculturist would receive the re.
peal of it with gratitude ar a great benefit.

Mr. BARING said, that having done his utmost
in frvour of economy. by voting for every retrench-
ment which had been proposed, but without suc-
ceeding in any one, he did not feel it to be his duty.
after the House had passed all the extravagant
votes which they had, to weaken the revenue by
voting for the repeal of this tux. lie was surprised
that any Gentlemen should think of returning
with a good grace to his constituents, after voting
for every measure of extravagance which had been
proposed.—(Hear. hearj—Though there might
be a difference of opinion as to some items of ex.
'sense which the Hon. Member for Aberdeen (Mr.
flame) had proposed to retrench, yet, notwith-
swirling the Hon. Gentleman's (Mr. Gooch's) ge-
neral zdmiration of his conduct, he had not thought
proper to support any one of his propositions.
He did not think. under such circumstances. that
general expriss:;ons of approbation would be con-
sidered as equivo;ent to active support. Every
one of those Gentlemen would in a day or two have
a much better opportunity of re.leeruing their cha-
racter by voting for a general measwe of economy,
which his Hon. Friend intended to brie.. forward.
He would say it was the first duty of the House
to look to the expenditure, and he was sure what-
ever feelings the country might entertain on that
head, they would scout the opinion of those who
through a long and expensive war had voted fur
every extravagance of supply, and them should
bring forward, as their measure of relief. • propo.
sitiou to take from the property of those who had
assisted them in carrying on that war. From what
the Hon. Member (Mr. Curwen) had stated, so tar
as the authority of the Agricultural Committee
went, it was against the repeal of this tax. As so
much had been said of what hail passed on that
Committee, he must inform the House of some-
thing more. There would not be found in the
minutes of that Committee one word as to the re-
peal of this tax. In that Committee, it was true,
one Gentleman was asked if the repeat of this tax
would be of any service to agriculture ? His answer
was, that it would be so trifling that it would be
hardly worth mentioning ; that however would not
be found on the minutes, as it was judged prudent
not to place it there. The Hon. Member express.
ed his anxiety to limit this entirely to farming
horses, but he could not so frame his measure as to
exclude those horses which were only occasionally
1 so employed. Had the repeal of thistax been @hewn
to be a great relief to agriculture, he should have
thought it his duty to have voted for it, because
no man could be more conscious of their distress
than he was, and he was equally conscious that
it was the duty of the House to remedy it if it were
remediable, but he was convinced that the distress
must be left to itself, and al.o that the relief by
this measure would be quite insignificant. In re-
ply to those who had talked of diverting the
Sinking Fund, lie would ask if any thing should
occur in Europe, if any threat, or any alteration
should take place in the state of France or Ame-
rica, and we should be obliged to make an arma-
ment, bow could that be done but by loan ? and
would any rational man think of lending his moray
if were to go on in peace without making any pro-
vision for the repayment of that which had been
borrowed during war ?
Sir W. W. WYNN spoke, but from the noise
in the gallery we were unable to collect what lie
said.

Mr. Ban ETT concurred with the Hon. Gentle-
man (Mr. Baring) in reprobating the conduct of
those who voted for extravagant expenditure. He
opposed the tax on principle, without looking to
the question of what relief would be ■Horded to
the agricultural interest by its repeal. He would
oppose it, as it was a tux on an implement of in-
dustry, which must raise the price of brew), and
that advanced price must ultimately be paid out
of the pockets of the consumer. He had presented.
lasi Session, • Petition from 8.000 Weavers and
Showmen of Wiltshire, the prayer of which was.
that the House would he pleased to put a stop to
nnuchinery,'aeid he was actually requested to make
• motion to that effect. Had he done en, would not
every Hon. Gentleman acquainted with political
economy have thought him insane ? yet this tax was.
equally repugnant to souud principles, and must in-
fallibly, as he before observed, raise the price of bread
to the consumer. It was the duty of ►be House to
look to every interest ; reuts had already partly
ceased, which must occasion a diminution of taxes,
and if that were the case the fundholder must he
affected. He hoped there was sufficient honesty in
the country to maintain the public credit as long
as poesible; but according to the vulgar adage,
" You eats't strip a naked man of his shirt." For
these reasons he ►hould support the repeal of the
tax.

Mr. %V. Buustst.t. opposed the tax, not because
he thought it would afford ass, great relief to the
agriculturist, but because he thought it most un-
just. He instanced the case of two farms, one of
000 acres paying 2001. a year rent, and one of 200
acres paying the same rent, was it not manifest the
the pressure of the tax was moat iiequal, pressing
heavily on the poor lend, winch must employ a

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