The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1825-05-04 00:00:00

CATHOLit 131 S.

Mr. BROUGHAM presented a petition from Yeovil, in favour
of the Catholic Claims. The petitioners prayed, that as there was
slow no pretender to the throne, nor any other circumstance which
could warrant a continuance of the exclusion of Catholics from the
benefits of the Constitution, the House may take their case into ha
consideration, and extend to them the privileges enjoyed by his
Majesty's other subjects.
Mr. BANKES presented two petitions against further corc.ssion
to the Catholics.—Ordered to be printed.
COUNTY COURT&

. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR Prestnutfa petition from Doncaster in
favour of the County t :ourts' 81/I.—Laid on the table.
:SALMON FISH ERI ES.

Mr. T. F. KENNEDY brought up the Report of the Semen
Fisheries Bill.-a-Ordered to be taken into consideration on the IVth
&natant.

SPITALFIELDS M;T.

Alderman WOOD moved fur a Return of all the penalties
levied under the Spitaltields Act. distinguishing by whom they
were received and bow disposed oi.—Orderell.
ISLE OF MAN.

• Mr. BROUGHAM presented a petition from the Speaker and
Members of the Howe ot Key., in the Isleof Man. The petition
was unanimously agreed to. The petitioners oirtervcd, froth the
Votes of the House, that a Commission had hero appointed to re-
011ie the customs of the Isle of Man, and also to purchase certain
7iglits from the Duke of Athol. The petitioners prayed that the
powers of the Commissioners might bee:tended, to enable them to
purchase all the remaining rights of that Nobleman, as they felt
they never could enjoy security —Ordered to be printed.
APOTHECA RIES.

Mr. BROUGHAM moved that the order for the appointment
of a :ielect Committee on the Apothecaries' Bill be discharged
and that the Bill be recommitted to a Committee of the whole
House. . . .

HH3IE opposed the motion. 'lle looked on the whole
mass of the Bill as degrading to the apothecaries; it vested power
in the Apotheearia.' Ha/I to send persons to visit the shop of any
individual, and examine all the medicine in it, no matter whether
for tale or not, and destroy or turn whatever quantity lie thought
either bad or adulterated. Such an authority he could not consent
to vain any body, particularly when their interest urged them to
abuse is ; for apothecaries, in moat instances, purchased their nie-
dit.nes from druggists,and of course the Apothecaries' flail had an
evident interest m depreekving them. Another complaint be had to
urge against the Bill was, that it compelled an apothecaq, at any
Laur st the day or night, to make the prescription of a physician,
•rw though it was sent Mr the purpose of annoyance. The Hon.
‘lNnbde hoped his Lenrned Friend would allow the Bill to lie
..mr till next Sessi,n. Ile thought the course now about to be
7.3rsavd not in accordance a nit the t'orms of the House.
l'he SPEAKER stid: the usual course was to refer a Bill to a

Comillittee after the second reading. This was done whether the
Bill be private or public ; and it was coppeteot to have the Bill
referred to a Select Committee before it ckme before a Committee
of the whole House. Nothing was more usual than for any Mem-
ber interested in the prosecution of a 14111 or in Its details, to have
the original order for a Select Committee discharged. If he under.
stood the first motion, it was, that that order be discharged, and the
Bill brought to the House ; and here he wished to apprise the lion.
Member (Mr. Hume), that the course now sought to be pursued
would not deprive hint of the power of urging, in a Committee or
the whole House, any objections he might have advanced up stairs;
and even according to the forms of the House, if the objections
failed up stairs, there was no objection to their being pressed again
in a Committee of the whole House.
Sir J. NEWPORT supported the motion. When the Com-
mittee met last, there being then five present, they were anxious
for their own dismissal. lie considered the Bill as calculated to
remove an existing evil.
After a few words from Mr. J. P. GRANT, and from Mr.
BROUGHAM. in explanation,
Mr. W. GORDON said, that the College of Aberdeen, which
was excepted from the operation of the present Bill, had come to a
resolution not to confer degrees on any individual who did not
undergo an examination, which they determined to make as strict
as that of the other Scotch Colleges. The lion. Member went
into a derail of the fees to be paid by a graduate of Aberdeen Col-
lege, and which he said amounted to 261.75. 64. Under all these
circumstances, he trusted his Honourable and Learned Friend (Mr.
Brougham) would include the graduates of that College in his
Bill.

Mr. A BERCROMBY suggested to the Honourable Member
for Aberdeen ( Mr. Hume), whether he had not better allow the
Bill to go on now, and if he pleased he might bring the question
before the House neat Session. _ .

Ale. HUME corroborated the statement of the lion. Member
opposite (Mr. W. Gordon) as to the resolution which the Aberdeen
College had come to.
Mr. BROUGHAM was glad to hear what had fallen front his
Honourable Friend (Mr. W. Gordon) sod his Honourable and
Learned Friend behind him (Mr. Hume)—(a laugh)—he
pardon, but his Honourable Friend was at the head of b:C.I-
- and had therefore a fair claim to be called " learned." He
rejoiced these Colleges had taken the last step towards removing
the taint which attached wall Scotch degrees.
The order was then discharged, and the Bill ordered to be re-
committed to-morrow.
Mr. Al. A. TAYLOR presented a petition from the seamen of
Sunderland, on the subject of the Combination Laws. They were
anxious to have an opportunity afforded them of disproving the
charges made against them.
Mr. Alderman WOOD presented a similar petition from certain
journeymen brass-founders.—Referred to the Committee on the
Combination Laws.
Mr. CARTWRIGHT presented a petition from the master boot
and shoe makers of Nottingham. It stated. that within the last six
weeks the journeymen struck a second time for higher wages ;
that they hold clubs and exact tines. The petitioners further
complain, that if they be allowed to go on striking for an advance
of wages, they, the petitioners, must give up all their navy and
army contracts. (Hear, hear.) They attributed all the evils to
the repeal of the Combination Laws. TheAionourable Member
wished to know from the President of the Board of Trade whether
it was his intention to propose this Session any thing on the subject
of these laws. _

Mr. HUSKISSON said, he had been asked hy the Honourable
Member to declare, In his official capacity, as President of the
Board of Trade, what it was his intention to propose with respect
to the present state of the Combination Laws. The subject he ad-
mitted was one of the most vital importance, and he regretted that,
instead of abating the spirit of combination, it was more and more
extending itself through every class of trade. (Heir, hear.) The
Honourable Member ( Mr. Cartwright) must be aware that the
subject had been referred to a Committee up stairs, and he (Mr.
Huskiason) begged to inform him, that the Committee were pur.
suing their investigation with all proper diligence, and hoped in a
short time to be able to make their report ; they were most anxious
that no delay should arise from them, as they felt most sensibly that
the subject presses. (Hear, hear.) He believed they did not in-
tend proposing any measure that might interfere with the meetings
of tradesmen to consult as to what the prices of labour ought to be,
so as to afford them a fair remuneration for their services. (Hear.)
He thought they had a right to do so. and also to consult as to the
propriety of making a greater demand for their labour, if the price
of provisions should become higher, fur the degree of remuneration
for labour must in a great measure depend on that circumstance ;
but at present they did not stop there ; they proceeded to the most
unjustifiable lengths; they went so far as to dictate to their em-
ployers in what warmer their business was to be carried on—to
dictate to them as to the tatting of apprentices—to dictate what
are to be the hours of labour, and what the pay of each
individual; and one of their regulations is, that every work-
man, be he good or bad, must receive the same wages.—( lime)—.
They levy severe fines for any violation of their laws.--(Hear.)—
He did not complain of their system because it alone affected the
employers, but beciuse it equally pressed on many workmen, and
prevented them from getting employment. They have established
a system of ititimidation.which deters masters from giving work to
any 'persons but such as belong to those associations which are un. ,
dermming the trade of the country.—(Hear.)—Unless some speedy
and decisive steps were taken to remedy the evil, he trembled for
the consequences. At that very moment there was almost a total
stagnation of trade. The woollen trade, fur instance, stood still;
nearly every trade in the country was in the same circumstances.—
( Hear.)—lle would be the last man in the world to advise the re-
vival of the old Combination Laws (hear), or support any mea-
sure that did not afford equal protection to the employed ass well as
the employers.—(Hear.)—lt had been said on a former occasion
that the tyranny of the many over the few was worse than that of
the few over the many ; that worse species of tyranny now existed,
and for it they were bound to provide a remedy. In conclusion, lie
assured the Honourable Member that the Committee would lose
no time in framing their Report, in order that the entire subject
might be brought before the liouse.—( Hear.)
Lord A ['THORP regretted, that when the Combination Laws
were repealed no precaution was taken to define what should be
considered a threat to the employer, to enable hint to institute a
prosecution against the offender. The present evil was not confined
to Nottingham, as he had a petition of a similar nature to present
from Dsventry.
Mr. EI.LICE wished to know something more satisfactory than
what had fallen from the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite
(Mr. Huskisson). No one could deny the very great inconvenience
which ever resulted from workmen forming themselves into associ-
ations of the nature described ; but the House should consider
from what a state of thraldom the workmen had just emerged, and
tee if that did not In some measure account for their present vio-
lence. All other classes endeavoured to enlarge their own in-
comes at the expense of the labouring classes ; he hoped, therefore,
that the fair claims of the workman would be well weighed before
the House legislated on the subject.
General GASCOYNE raid there was a strong isles abroad, that
the Committee intended to interfere with the benefit societies;
such a proceeding he thought most impolitic; those who were not
connected with the illegal associations admitted the excesses of the
others, but hope that the errors of the few may not be visited on
the many. He considered that there had not elapsed sufficient time
since the repeal of the Combination Laws, to judge accurately of
its effect; it was but twelve months since that repeal took place,
and since that period peevish fla had borne a high price; and he
dreaded, although the Right Honourable Gentleman might have no
in e nation of reviving the old Combination Laws, lest he might in-
troduce some measure perhaps more obnoxious. The Honourable
Member went on to say, that the spirit ot combination by no
means extended as widely as had been represented. Not a single
instance of combination had occiaterW in Liverpool since the repeal
of the laws ; not a solitary act of violence was committed in that
city. lie trusted that there existed no intention of interfering with
the funds of the friendly societies; theirfoundation had produced
the most beneficial results; there was one in particular to which he
begged to call the attention of the House—the Society of Ship.
wrights. It contained four thousand members, bad been estab-
lished thirty-three years, built almshouses, and not a single indi-
vidual of the Society had ever applied to the parish for relief.
Mr. MABERLY thought that what had fallen from the Right
Honourable Gentleman would give great satisfaction to the public
at large. He had heard that in Aberdeen the men not only coin.
bined to obtain an advance of wages, but actually to regulate the
number of apprentices, and sometimes to require that there be
no apprentices at all. Such a method of controlling the masters
must be injurious to manufactures, and he thought, therefore, that
the subject required consideration.
Mr. PHILLIPS was of opinion that the language used upon
both sides of the House in this conversation was much to be re.
gretted, because it was desirable to put an end, if possible, to all
combinations, both of meters and men, and he thought any thing
said in that House, which might be supposed to give a triumph to
one party over the other, was imprudent and impolitic. He could
net help saying, however, that the combinations amongst the
muter,/ excited more jealousies than those amongst the men ; and
that there had been, both at Liverpool and elsewhere, limy in-
stances of great oppression of the masters, with outrage and
violence, since the repeal of the Combination Laws.
Mr. HUME said, that what the House wanted upon this subject
was information ; all the individaals examined hail spoken only of
one side of the question. If, however, the matter were properly in-
vestigated In a Committee, he was sure that niany of the mistake,
under which lion. Gentlemen laboured would be cleared up. As to
the outrages said to be committed, he had never hesnl of any but
in Dublin, and then the number of people said to have lost their
lives had dwindled down from 20 to 2. Evert* man examined be-
fore the Committee had borne testinion; to the remarkable fact,
that the character of combinations was wholly changed, and that they
were now universally conducted with peace and systematic order.
The dictation upon the subject of apprentices, or the violence used
to compel a surrender, either on the one side or the other, he ob-
jected to as much vie any musts; but he would ask lion.Geutlenten,if
they had *quantity of wheat, and the price was only his. a quarter,
whether they would think it criminal if they agreed to watt until
the price was 85s. or Ns.? Would they not then allow a poor man,
wile could get only 2s. fel. a day for his labour, to welt, if he could,
until he got Ss.? This was what he contended for—he wanted per.
feet freedom, for, without that, they must have a law for raising
the rice of corn, and regulating the wages of labour. On the be-
half; therefore, of those men, who had not yet been heard, he ire.
plored the House not to proceed upon this subject without proof of
the charges laid against them, or without adequate itiformetion on
the advantages derived from the repeal.
Mr. PH ri.id PS explained. The repeal, it was said at the time
would put an end to all combinations, and all violence, but let those
who held or maintained that opinion look to Manchester and Glas-
gow before they repeated their assertions.
Sir M. W. tuDLEy would have all the labouring classes al.

THE 'BRITISH PRESS.

lowed individually to obtain, by legal means, the fair price of their
labour; but when they conregated together in large bodies, and
said to their employers, " 1 ou shall not employ this or that person,
or give less than stht a price," and forced this upon the master by
threats of violence and outrage, he thought it right that the begis-
lettere should interfere. Time should be allowed, however, to those
who lived in Northumberland and Durham, and other distant
counties, to tome for ward in their own defence. He begged to add,
that fin his part he had never heard one word in the Committee
upon the regulation of Friendly Societies,
Lord A. HAMILTON could state that there was one man now
lying at the point of death from a beating inflicted by the Stirling_
shire colliers, for taking less wages than they thought proper to
command; and a weaver, in another case, which he had heard of
to-day, was sentenced to whipping and transportation for an at-
tempt to assassinate the Judge who tried him, declaring that if
Lord Elleriborough's Act had extended to Scotland he must have
suffered death for the crime with which he was charged. On be-
half, therefore, of that class who were sufferers from another class
having got the upper hand of them, he appealed to the House far
protection. lie did not know what had taken place elsewhere, but
front his acquaintance with recent events in Lanark and Stirling
Whims, he felt strongly inclined to support a change in the laws, en
the same grounds which had formerly induced him to vote for the
repeal, namely, that labour should be allowed to bring heel( to the
best market ; for when they heard of men not only prescribing to
their masters at what price they are to work, when, and how,
but even where they are to send their goods, and at what price they
, were to sell them, (hear, hear,) he thought it time that the House
should extend its protection to the masters as well as the men.
Mr. BARING had hoped that the Right Honourable Gentle-
, man would not have given any answer to the question of the Ho-
pourable Member for Liverpool (General Gascoyne), because he
wished the House to go to the consideration of this question alto-
gethcr unprejudiced by any statements of the Minister. The crude
repeal of the Combination Laws lie had always thought one of the
most mischievous acts that House had ever committed, The in-
tereets of manufacturers had been very much injured by it • and if
there were not more acts of violence upon record, it was because the
men had it all their own way. He hoped, however, the House
would remedy the evil, when they had made an impartial in-
quiry.
Captain MABERLY said a fcw words, which were not audible
in the Gallery.
Mr. MABERLY explained.
The retition was then referred to the Committee on the Corn-
bination Laws.
CATHOLIC CLAIMS.
Mr. ESTCOURT presented a petition from the Archdeacon and
Clergy of Becks. praying that no further concessions be made to the
Roman Catholics --Ordered to be printed.
Lord ROBERT SO3IERSET presented a similar petition
from Leelilacle.

Mr. DENMAN, in presenting a petition from the Mayor and
Corporation of Nottingham, said he was happy to say that a town
so much devoted to Whig principles, as to have been the first to
present an Address to King William, on his landing in this coun.
try, was now dieposed to grant, without tear, the fullest constitu-
tional privileges to the Roman Catholics. They desired too to ex-
press their opinion, that as they feared no dangers, so they required
no securities ; but if the House thought tit t require them, they
had no disposition to oppose it. The Honourable and Learned
Gentleman then observed, that the Catholics did not ask for the ap-
pointment to office ; they asked for the eligibility to office ; and if
those situations at the Irish Bar were thrown open to Mr. O'Cun-
nell, what danger could arise from that concession, when those who
have the nomination to such elevations were at liberty, as in the
case of the Learned Gentleman who usually sat below him (Mr.
Brougham), to withhold the appointment. A King, therefore, jea-
lous of any individual, always would have it in his power to exclude
him from any place of trust to which he might be even eligible.
The petition was laid on the table.
IRISH FREEHOLDERS BILL.
Colonel TRENCH said, lie would take that opportunity to give
notice of his intention to propose a clause in the 40s. Freeholders'
Bill, enabling freeholders whose freeholds fluctuated between 40..
and 101., to exchange that privilege for an exemption from the
county assessments.
Mr. R. MARTIN said, the Hon. Colonel's proposal would be
very well, if it did not throw the burthen upon others. The rases
must be paid.
COMBINATION LAWS.
Lord ALTIIORP presented a petition from Daventry, on the
subject of the Combination Laws.—Referred to the Committee.
COUNTY RATES BILL.
The House, upon the motion of Lord ALTIIORP, then went
into a Committee on the County Rates Bill.
The Noble Lord proposed a clause, granting compensation to se-
veral Officers of the King's Bench, Clerk, Cryer, etc. and to the
Filasera of the Common Pleas.
Mr. HUME begged to ask upon what evidence they were to
make the grant and from what funds it was to be paid?
Lord ALTIIORP said it was not possible to ascertain ex-
actly what was the amount of the fees gained by these officers.
After a conversatiot., in which Mr. Sergeant OxsLow, Mr.
TINDAL, Mr. PEEL, Mr. HEATHCOTE, and Mr. BRIGHT took
a part, the several clauses were agreed to, the House resumed, and
the report ordered for to-morrow.
Mr. JONES presented a petition from the Borough of Caermar-
then, against further concessions to the Roman Catholics.
Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition from the Broad Silk Weavers
of Spitaltields, relating so certain alteration in the Combination
Laws.

CATHOLIC CLAIMS.
Mr. BROWNLOW presented a petition from an individual of
the name of SPCullen, in the County of Armagh. The petitioner
stated, that he was a freeholder of the County of Armagh ; that he
kept a mathematical school, for which he did not receive assistance
from any society. He further stated, that he had been brought up
a Roman Catholic, but was induced to separate himself from that
male of worship, in consequence of having heard the Rev. J.
Coyne declare, that there was no salvation for any person out of
the Roman Catholic Church. ( Hear, and a laugh.) The same
Clergyman also prohibited the use of a Spelling-book, in which the
Lord's Prayer was inserted with the concluding wo*la, " For
thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory," he. he.
The House here manifested same impatience at the reading of
the petition, and it was ordered to be laid on the table.
LEVANT COMPANY'S ACT.
Mr. HUSKISSON moved that the House resolve itself into a
Committee on the Levant Company's Act. Resolutions to the
effect of abolishing the present system of dues, and of rendering
void the present charter, were moved and agreed to, and the report
ordered to be brought up to-morrow.

ARREST FOR DEBTS' BILL.
Mr. S. RICE moved the third reading of the Arrest for Debts'
BUI. The object of the Bill was to prevent vexatious arrests.—
It was read a third time and passed.
CUSTOM AND EXCISE ACTS.
Mr. BERRIES moved that the House resolve into a Committee
on the Customs and Excise Acts.—The resolutions were agreed
to, and the report ordered to-morrow.
The Irish Exchequer Bill also passed through a Committee.
DISSENTERS' MARRIAGE BILL.
Mr. W. SMITH moved the second reading of the Dissenters'
Marriage Bill.—The several clauses were ■greed to. and it was
ordered to be engrossed, and to be read a third time on Thursday
next.

The other orders of the day were then agreed to, and the House
adjourned at half-past Seven u'Clock.

HOUSE OF COMiIiONS, THIS DAY.

NOTICES OF MOTIONS.
Mr. nobhouse—Select Committee to consider of the Working
flours of Children in Cotton Factories.
Mr. Monck—Bill to prohibit, in certain cases, the payment of
any part or portion of the 's'ages of Labourers out of the Poor
Raul.

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