The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1810-05-04 00:00:00

nousr. OF COMMONS.

Mr BR • /I 0 gave notice that he would move fora Reform
in Parliament un M lay, the gist
1 Is. Salt Regulation Act went through a Committee, and
the Report was ordered to be received to morrow.
Mr. yVll•mroot wi seed, e 1 That the Horse sliriald resolve
itself into a Committee, tomorrow, fur the 'impose of run-
sideritig the Act of the Mitts of George 111. 94)111 chapter,
relative to oil of $ dried." Agreed to.
Mr Joni; SIICL • I R moved for an account of the duties
paid •pon ia England and Scotland, from taus to
long. Agreed to.
Mr. AR BU TTTTT brought ep the Report of the Coiamit.
tee of Supply, contaiuiag the Resolutions 'moo the unmet-
haeueoseoveseti, ah eb acre read mad agreed to.
I.4.•ttigGroie bronght up the Report upon Mt
Judges' Salanes Bill, which, with amenileimuts, was agreed
to ; ordered to be engrossed, sod to be lead a third time taiv
Morrow
The Bill for regulating the Scotch Commissariat, sod in-
ferior Courts in °timid, a Ai read a iseeistal time, and ordered
to he committed to•inuri ow
The Report of the Committee for granting compensations
to the Clnks of Session, for the losses %ordained to C USW-
rieriwe of the sew orrangewsests, was brooeht up, the R. so-
lotions ern agreed to, and the Rill ordered to be bronchi in
The Scotch theme Abiniguwat Bill went through a
Committee, and the Report was ordered to be received Am
Monday.
Mr C•it oleo poupooeft motion upon the mhject of the
Spintsii repels to unit week, as sutler of the papers, which
had torn permuted in another place, had nut yet beea pi e-
moted to that House.
• Mr. R.t• a au brought op the Estimates for the Ti inspirit
actrice, which were entered to lie on the (alit..
MIDIJI.E4EIC I'ETIfION.
Mr. It Autism moved the.l)r4ler of the Dar for
repulsing t-.‘e adjourned deltaic moon the sulrjeet
of floe liddltorx Petit TTTTT —W Int h in-; Agreed tns•
He again rose—He p.id, th.t in/nigh the attend-
since of the Members won not oat:, no he could wish,
.•nn.idering the irtipottatice of the 'object before
them ; yet it was satisfactory to redeet, that any
decipiPii to which they would stow cotae.must Carry
• t!h it greater weight, I h.ii if it hail Irmo come to
ou the forayer eight ; it could tint now be imputed
to iirre:pttoury or heat% nor attacked as a proceed..
inc. ado,rteil without colander:Aim. and a mature
aripiaiiitas)ce with the subject. Every masa oust feel

himself morn happy in voting limier the present
circumstances, than if be had been driven to a vote
in the first instance, before his feelings bad time to
cool, and 116 judgment to act. After the lapse of
such time, and the advantage of the reflection
which it permitted, lie was sorry to say, that he felt
himself constrained to vote against the petition. lie
did not wish to throw any obstacle in the way of
petitioning, or to limit that right which he con.
sidered so essential to the liberties of the people.
On the control y, he was C 611410114 Of ILIIMWIII.4 open
the doors of the House, as wide as possible, to their
complaints and applications; there was no argu-
ment to which he would nut listen, and there was

. .
scarcely any request to which he would not attend ;
but this which was now before them, he felt it his
duty to refuse; because it was nut a petition, but
a protest ; not all application, but a menace.—
( Hear! hear 1)—He could not conceive what the
object of it was, unless to try how far they could go
in shoving and Militating the House of Commons.
If their object was to procure the discharge of Mr.
John Gale Jones, or the surrender of the principle
upon which he was committed; or, if it was to
bring shoot a Reform in Parliament, must it not
have been plain to their understandings, that those
objects would be best promoted by -language less
menacing, and more respectful. With respect to the
chargeot having assumed unlawful privileges, what,
he would ask, were their privileges but the privileges
of the people ? and what were they asserting, -by
claiming and exercising them, but a portion of
those rights upon which their liberties were founded
and secured ? He could not consent that the dig-
nity of the people should he lessened, and, there-
fore, he would support the dignity of that House.
( Hear, Ater). The people would do well to re-
flect upon the hazard they were incurring, when
they suffered themselves to he made the tools of
those who were actuated by different motive,. and
looking to other purposes, and by whom they
would be swept away like chaff before the wind.—
The people, it was to be feared, were not sufficient-
ly aware of this ; they did not look to the remote
consequences. But those to whom they were un-
fortunately prevailed upon to lend themselves,. knew
much better the effects of that struggle into which
they had precipitated them; they knew, that, if
they were successful in breaking down the privi-
leges of that House, the Government must become
obsolete, or lie destroyed ; the Crown Must have all
the power, or a republic must succeed the preseut
happy constitution—a republic, which. like all
other republics, ancient and modern, must end io
a military despotism.—( Hear hear !)—Such
was the consequence, itt ell ages ; it was inevitable.
. The French revolution had taught no new lessons;
it was but a recent illustration of what had often
been illustrated before. and it was impossible to
contemplate it, without feeling, in its hill force,
the absurdity of any attempt at republican go-
verunieut, and the horror of any revolutionary spe-
culation. He could sot help thinking, that thase.:
who supported such doctrines as had 'wen of late
avowed, were either wilful deceivers, or volun-
tary dupes. He wished, if possible. that the House
should express, by some resolution, the ground
upon which it had thought proper to reject the.
petition. It was desirable that its motives
should not be liable to misrepresentation. which,
he conceived. would be most effectually guard-
ed against, by a resolution, descriptive of the
grounds 111i011 which it had acted. This Redo-
lution should state, that it was not in order to
nano* the right of the subject, but to defeat]
their own privileges, that they felt it necessary to
reject the petition in question. At all events, with
or without such a Resolution, he should vote
against the reception of it ; this was not a time far
a mere negative performance of duty; it was a
time to speak out. and to act decisively. Illut
while he felt himself justified in attaching blame
to the ((tuners mud supporters of the petitiou, he
did not think that all die blame was theirs ; much
was also to he ascribed to another quarter, ,to M-
oister. themselves—(i/ear, hear.) They 1)4,1
often heen warned that they went ton much against
the sense and feeling of the people; but the warn-
ing was in vain. They had resorted to similar expe-
dients, for the purpose of exciting a popular cry.
(hear. hear,) when that popular cry, made iii
favour of themselves, or of the narrow and
higotterl principle upon which they wished
to stand. No wonder that it was now turned
against them. Their conduct, in every part
of it, was calculated to produce the dissatirfaction
which unhappily prevailed ; they had disregarded
the voice of the people, they had mocked them with
sham inquiries up to this very day, they had con-
tinued a system of contradiction to their prin-
ciples and their feelings, they had heaped honours
and rewards upon an individual at the very moment
that the public iudignation was raging against him.
(Hear. Aear.)—What he complanied of most was,
that they (the Ministers of the country) should be
the men to furnish langii•ge to those demagogues,
and supply them with weapreis against the Consti-
tution. It was they who hail list adopted the ex-
pedient of running down public men it was they
who had fist said that all the Opposition desired was
the places of the Ministers ; it was they who had
begun the system. mid who were responsible for all
that follow/ed.—(llear, Aear.)—For his part, he
could net think that ally man would he so absurd,
not to say corrupt, as to wish for place at the pre-
sent moment, merely from personal 011011“11. In
offering those sentiments. he heti discharged a duty
which he would rather have avoided ; he hoped that
a person more able world take up the subj-tt.
which, f its importance to that House, amid to
the country in general, called for the most simple
investigation. Ile concluded with moving the fol-
lowing Resolution. explanatory of the around*
upon which the petition should lie rejeeteil
.6 That the House was at all times willing to rec4.,ve the
petitions 44 the people; hat that it could sat rsreirc that
whirl,, under the name tor i iwitittrs, yes • protest against
the proceediugs al the House "
Mr. Gast raid. seconded the motion. He cared
less about whit would be the couseqnetices of re-
jecting the petition, than he did about tile interest
and dignity of that House. If the petition was re-
ceived, they might expect to have their table bold-
ed. in a short time, with every species of insult and
altuse--(Hcar).--There were, it, ape tsl. dissatis-
factions in the country ; and he must sae, that they
were not entirely without reason. The sere 'test
*ounce of ill•sati.lac,toti a.lpsareel to him to hr the
vexstiaus and tyrannical 0111110ef is which :lie taxes

were collected—(Mar). If ever a revolui
to take place to tins country. he was Celliill
would be brought, about more by the min
which the taxes were collected, than by the
mid pressure of the taxes themselves. Ile
apprehensive from the proceedings to Pala,
than from the more silent, but inure *triton
the Board of Taxes.
The Hon. Mr. WAnD requested that th
minster Petition should be r, ail.
It was iterol.llligl) read by the Clerk.
Mr. WARD then proeert'eli to state,
should hot have troubled thy House upon
sent oc, asion, even with one word, if he
been placed in the particular situation ol
opposed the reception of the ‘Vertinitister
He had then thought, and he thought still
was couched in indecent language, and s
stilt the House in the discharge of its autY.
upon the present occasion, he felt himself hool,„;
to adopt a different conduct, he felt it necessary T.,
state the motive by which he wit. actuated. lo th,
present, as in the former, instance, his object oil.
to preserve the dignity of the House, no mall per
of which dignity sus consistency—/year, hear)._
With a view to flits part of their character, tow
could they, after having suffered the language of
the Westminster petitiou, object to this? Hns,
after having received the'one, could they r. fuse th,
other ? Ile had not heard a single argument Logi it
against this, which was not more applicable to the
Westminster petitiou. Decision!' upon such rah.
jects should be made upon broad grounds, sad trot
adopted, because, in one case, they bad found
quibble vrisieh would explain away the offence ;sod
then abandoned, because in another no such mule
ble existed. The forms and practices of that House
were liable to change with the opinions and stmt.
melds of the times; it was evident from a coin.
11411701141 of the present practices with the prachees
of our ancestors. But. though they might change
from age t.. age, let them not change from week to
week, becaii.e a ChancellorpooflitthicealEkx,ciehiludeer,hosepe.
hear.)rPlietl,ed thante hoahrvee a
thesec oluil could muster
reasons,im iiunrset r
haet h
hit i t
h.,r—/year,uty
is
though he hail voted tOr the rejection of the former
petition, to vote for the reception of this.

Mr. Deans rod, that he concurred with
ithe
Hon. Gent. who huil opened the debate, in many
•
things, but, with the Hon. Geuiltmau who ,peke
last. he could not agree ; his ideas of consi:tency
wi weremads idtaot.gl :ors
ro• rdeniajgsoninotiitn g:eteoYasytiat,hutoehhe.ist • they
bad
tt.loieemyyn•
connection
• t
doneotdolounibetween wrong. according to the Hun.• Gem.)
h ItLerefluoreherdlisigan-irtnyuagmiiiitahielect.h}t te
e,:is?Tinh:
i
of the House he did not mean to depute: but the
consistency which was likely to heliumr it. could
scarcely he ui s,steticy Ir,:r! hen!
hear!) Hr was one of threw, ti.• wnold ailos, who,
ou first leading the petition alluded tr, considered
it to le- au insult to the House ; but, !mon further
coneideration, lie found that • it was liable to
an ri-
terprrudion vi hi h would remove the ck.ree ef in-
sult, and therefore he thought it wrong t• Ft fri't it.
—(Hear 07—Tile question was now, could the
present petition be sent in with any other imentum
than that of premeditated insult ? is his opinitin .t
Gould not, and he agreed perfectly that it win so
strong, that it was time to put as end to such ro-
cs's:dings. If, in a doublul case, they lied, tr. ,a
an aextety to discharge their duty to the propir of
England, received one pt Mimi, ass that • retool.,
why, in a ease of no doubt, in a case of direct sod
palpable insult, thee should pursue int s..cne
conduct ? Ao Honourable Gentleman had spoken
of dissatisfaction in .the country ; hr must br per.
milted to questiOn the dissatisfaction.—(Hear,
Aear, frost the Opposition.)-11e had said that it
arose front sham inquiries--(llese, hear, friar tke
Opposition.) ; but he (Mr. D.) must der, the fact.
The House had not lost the confidence of the emu-
try ; it was useless, therefore. to go in search of the
cause, when the effect did not exist.—Such lanipiage
as this was commonly resorted to by persons who
had very different purposes in views from them
which should actuate either the Parliament or the
people. An objection had been made to the ho.
mum which were conferred upon an individual, not
now present ; but if His Majesty's advisers had
been deterred, by the existence of a popular fry,
from advising whet they conceived to he right, then
indeed would they deserve the contempt of the
country.—( Hear.)—Anot her Hon. Gentleman had
ascribed the diesatiofeetion to the operation of the
Board of Times: this was unjost ; that Board was
costituandili by the Legislature to collect thoraxes,
in a way pointed out ly the Legislature itself.
They, therefore, should tint he blemed for doing
what their duty obliged them to. to the Rem-
lotion, he could not see the necessity of it: it was
sot the usual anode ; besides, as the House was
always. in the habit of lending an attentive ear to
the petitions of the people, the rejection of the pee.
sent would easily be attributed to its proper move.
Mr. GaErs rat.:, Mr. BALKAN, and Mr. DUP.
DAS, explained.
Mr. Poesoenu said, that, with regard to the ob-
servations of his Hon. Friend (Mr. tiarlisio) upon
the appointment of Mr. N'orke to he First Lord
of the Admiralty, it was perfectly emistituntio.l.
The way in winch they were to meet-hue the ',Odic
opinion, upon any of the Meinbere of the Howie,
was, by notieing the reception which they met
from their Constituents, when they returns...l to
them. ( Hear, hear.) tVhen, therefore, his Ilan.
Friend affirmed that the Teller of the Exchequer
had lost the confidence of the recede, he faired
the declare of Cambridge • pretty rod to whir
for the uth of his observation.. .411 m.! bear!)
—But while lie agreed with his Hon. endr la
thus particular, he must differ from birn enely
wishrespect to the petition. He would Dot
petition
te
oviust it. He could not egret, that a t
should lie rejected, beasuo• it •contained langintee
winch the House might the
prop'', had a right to petiiinn Spitrol: mesourrs
tC.ry surely must bate a right to c erns such
measures ; the fact was+ that they were in the Coo-
slant habit of exercising such • right. The Hem. e
would not receive petitions against taxes during Me
ar scion in which they were imposed, butt in all soh-
serpient sessions they wott:d. They had eint"e"
11.4Itions against the manner in *filch the niece
were collected, and their Journal., if referred to.
would be foetid to cool.a. arch epithets as par.

.L1111.11711:1,1:1(
11:11111pr
he weight
141. t.) dtd,
as t. 44
the Wtat.
tl.4t
the Int.
had 11,,t
of 1,3‘,,.4.
ii, pttiti;,:h
ti ,at it
.rut to 'lli.
lutv. A

• .
WOO, and oppressive:lrby were net the
1,, „teni,s couched in soil, words at these reject.
and where was the differenee between Iberia
and the words a die tikition—now before the.
House? The present charged the House with as.
awning a privile4r which it did not pusses», au4.
which it should abandon. If they did think that
it was an assumption, illegal slid iiiiroastitutioin.l„
they hod a right to express their opinion, and how
"mid they 'awess it but in some such words all
they had used ? Far, hoe:ever, was he from agree-
ing in the object of the petition.—(Hear!heart)
He knew of no Frivilege which the House hard as-
nunied.--(//ear ! hear .')—A great deal was and
shout combiiiing the clia of judge, ritc.ersjuror,
and accuser, which he often heard before, but
which he lie..ril, upon this occasion, with regret,
because it betrayed a gross ignorance of the Con.
stitu —(Hear! Hear.')—Because it was used
to procure the surrender of those privileges, which,
the in emtot they were surrendered, public liberty
auinlel be lost.—(Hear! Hear !)—As to the de-
,4,;!,,6 of those who had stirred up the spirit, he was
n• t acquainted with them; but if their designs were
svis, tt was the duty of IN nistera to detect and punish
toria. He cautioned the House against laying too
much stress upon theaccourits of public meetings, as
r. ported its the palters. He could quote one instance,
as a proof that they were not to be relied on with
TD„,.I) confidence; for either the papers must be
wrong, ur au Hon. Member of that Home (the
Wither for Oakhamptosi), most have li.xarded
seine very strange assertions; The Hon. Member
was reported to have said, that when the Ministers
were contending for privileges,whiLli Illit not belong
the Ih,asr, the Opposition hail joined in die cry s. to
rink round the Ministers upon such an occasion."
Hr (fir. Ponsonby) waa sure that the lion. Mem-
ber could have said no such thing; lie must have
known that he would he one of the last men in the
couutry morally round the Ministers. ( Hear, hear.)
He was also reported to have said, that His MM..
%Lowers were reproached by the Opposi-
firm, fur not bringise.; rot the military in the first in-
'Noce." The Hon. Mewl), r could not have said this,
nu such thing having happened.—(Hear, hear.)--
He was also reported to have ascribed, to what were
commonly called the two great parties in the
Raise, the greste.t selfishness and impurity of mo-
tive. He (Mr. Pousonby) supposed that this most
have been a mistake—fur surely on moil could
arrogate so much to Inroad( air to think that he had
more wisdom soil more honesty than the whole
House of Commons—(Hear, hear.) No man
could be absurd, or unjust eirough to say, that out
af six hundred and fifty-eight Members, six hun-
dred and fifty wire uotorious rogues---(A largh.)
It iVIV.4 for those reasons that he thought the no wo-
rm r reports could not have been correct, and
mizot not to be relied upon with too much confi-
de...l.. The tehi of petition was that of which the'
House ought to be particularly careful; in the
maintenance of which he felt that he could roots
with propriety, vote Against the petition.
Mr. W said, that, as the Right Hon. Gen.
tleinau had attacked lion so openly, he ought to
have mentioned in what paper lie had seen the re-
port, of which he spoke ; he (Mr. Wardle) had seen
none such. Hit believed what he hod said at the
meeting was this, which lie would repeat now in his
place, that the Gentlemen at that (the Opposition)
rode of the House, had taken an odd time to rally
round the Government—that they rejoiced in the
arrest of Sir F. Burdett, and that one Gentleman
it panne (liar lard gene so far as to say, that, even
if Mii.ie.rs had hereditary places, he would rally
ruined 01e111 now. Ile did not say that that side of
the (louse was worse than the other. He had
stated, as hr always shonl4, his sentiments, freely,
fairly, and fully, upon the cancluet of public mein
As to the petition itself, hr hop. d the Right lion.'
Oehiliman opposite (Mr. Percival) would find the
none res.ou for supporting it, that he had in the
tornicr ease ; that that, as well as the Westminster
petition, would be found to conaist of language,
the apparent severity of which might be explained
away.

Nesonse, in explanation, said. that he
had not accused the Hon. Gentleman, but the
public new: palters ; and what the Hon. Gentleman
hid ssid, win, another argument how little they
item to hi, depended on.—(4 hough).
Sir JOHN A OVIROTHEIL begged that the Hon.
who spoke last (Mr. Wardle), would, in
filure, lie more eorrret in 1141 public speeches, than,
hi- nevi re lin...libation, he appeared to have
loooi. When beamed that this (the Opposition) side of
h., I loose hart cheered and rejoiced to hare Sir F.
Laden 'wilt to the Tower, he should rather have
(Petted their opinions from their voter on that
soon, thou what lie called their cheers. In h.s
the House had not exercised any privilege
to "huh they were not legally entitled, and it was
this leeling which had induced him to use the ex-
so much mistaken by the Hun. Gentle.
min. He had said, and lie repeated it again. that,
tf the question was betweea the present Ministers
oe,tinuing in place, and the outoverairvo of the con-
he would make lAA election of the first of
thNe alternatives, even though it was to give them
hereditary seats. He would try to have them re..
teamed by all legal and constitutional means, but
no farther would he go ; and it loss an this seine
'lto lie wound rally round the Government, or
tidier round 'be eonanteition and the House of
Vinainons. There was no coins-oriem between this
Coo,anient and the ruin of every thing dear to
It 401• as men and Britons; their lawr, freedom,
sod the Constitntion of their ancestors.
Mr. W. Sams would give hi. vote on this im-
feetant qiiertion with as !Min as ever Ile gave
%IC in Ina life; bait, considering it his indispen-
duty, he vetatlcl not refruto from it, or from
"Nesting his Opllllol.ll. It was singular, that men,
grimrally agreeing in print iple, should, upon any
PI/titular question, differ taro eerie ; yet sneli was
✓elle•iti the present iiistanve, between his lion.
end
(Mr. Ward) and him. The Hon. Gentle.
4/40Fi4tictied, that. becattse the other petition was
!retired, this ought not to be rejected. He dd.
Ted from him in both there points. and in thy ape
I.;"titul• On the former occasion. he had found
bttund to eateend for the reception of the
• In the pa.soige meat °derisive in it might
!' lastly,r rather mote so, be construed to :.;.plyl, the 1.41,,,r of the House, in the ezeciitiOli i,i rue
w.".; ht. 41 to the act of the !loose itself. II:It the
lluege of this petition was still mere

than the other, and be would vote for its rejec•
I Lion, upou the grown' of its being so intended.
There was another broad and plain distinction.
The question of law, iis to the comin•ttal of Sir
Francis Burdett, ss..s sub judier ; and even, in the
'opinion of the parties themselves, likely to coins
ttttt ler emisideratitni, either in t'ist House, or in a
Count of Law ; it ors not, Cisrdore, decent to dr.
ride upon the question, as .v. is dime peremptindy
no this petition. A• 4 fur the liiiiguage. no man
could read it without seentg ihrt it was con-
structed to try to what slegree the House would
sutler insult and offence to be brought to their
bible. It was untrue to say the those who opposed
the reception of each a paper were for narrowing the
rights of the, bject to petition. He had served in
Parliament O7 or 2 years, and'had never, to the
' best of his k ' Wedge, taken the unconstitutional
side. He had en every question rather leaned to
popu opinion, and bad always stood up for the
wli the subject. He had heard it wild,
helie
that the thirty of the pen/ was best preserved by
guarding against its licentiousness; and the same
observatiou iiii,„;ht be applied to the right of pe-
titioning. Licentiousness was at -bad in petition-
ing as in publishing, and ought equally to be
discountenanced. The course he felt it his duty
to pursue on this occasion, he was sure was the
best, though, at the same time, he was aware it
was not the most popular—our, if it came to a
conflict between the contending parties, the most
safe. For one side must succeed, and whoever
did, the middle man was trodden under foot, and
disregarded by both. He was surprised that an
' Hon. Gentleman could say, that the side of the
House on which he stood, rej,iieed at the commit-
tal of Sir Francis Roulet ; *tiro he (Mr. S.) had
taken the sense of the House on that very ques-
tion, and had gone forth with the very large mi-
nority of 152 against the motion. To make such an
assertion after tine, to say the least of it, was a para-
dox and mistake, not consistent with any great
accuracy of memory. The House was bound to
uphold its privileges and dignity, by every proper
means ; and he would never be one of those to sur-
render either the one or the other. Yet lie agreed
with an Honourable Gentleman, (Mr. Gretifell)
that the House had lost, mid, he was Sony to say,
justly lost, great part of its weight, influence, and
respectability, with the people. But they were not,
therefore, the less hound to keep up and preserve
what legally and constitutionally belonged to them.
Though, in his opinion, the constitution of the
Muse was so faulty, as to require a radical re-
form, and lie knew that the people would never
respect it as before, till that reform to .k place;
yet he wound never consent to part with those
privileges, which, if once lost, would not easily
ne regained, and which they were bound to
transmit, unimpaired, to their posterity. It was
not to those parts of the Petitiou, on the subject of ,
a reform of Parliament. that lie objected. He had '
mice been a petitioner on this subject I . self, end
'would gladly be the same again, as well as the moat
strenuous supporters of the measure ill the House.
Rut this would not induce him to participate in the
degradation of the House, which the reception of
this Petition would accomplish, even in the eyes
of the Petitioners themselves. He again adverted
to the subject of Parliamentary Worm. if the
House had attended to tlii., when it had inrutedy
been agitated, they would have been restored to
the confidence of the people, and not liable to be
treated by theni as not being their legal representa-
tives. He would give a detailed vote against this
Petition being laid on the table.

Mr. M. FITZONSLALD was of opinion, that the
House ought not to reject the petition, on account
of any strong expressions. No more dangerous
impression could, at this time, he made on the
people's minds. than that their fictitious would be
rejected, because they contamed expressions of-
fensive to the administration of the day, or to thou.
Members of the House who entertained high wotitn•s
on the subject. He had ever held it most unwi.,•,
(not denying the privileges of the House, a matter
on which he did not new mean to enter) to exercise
their power upon a person of the description of
Jones. It was entering into a conflict from which
no honour could be derived, and where triumph
would be defeat. He held originally, and had heard
nothing to make him alter his opinion, that the
House had not a right to try for libel, and to punish
the offender. Neither did he think they had acted
wisely in piiiiishing one of their own number for ap-
pealing to his constitioeuts, and explaining his sen-
timents to them. To reject this petition would be
to complete that tissue of impolicy which bad been
pursued; for what would the 'People think of such
procrediog ? He did not mean the mob assembled
at a public meeting, but the middle class; the so-
ber, ►eflecting order of the people, who paid the
taxes to Government. They would think, that,
after having infringed on the liberty of the sub-
ject, nothing remained for the House to do, but to
put an end to the power of petitioning. The right of
petitioning was no 4nrobinierl claiin—it was the law
and Constitution of the country. If, then, the subject
enjoyed this right of petitioning against grievances,
how was he to exercise it, but iu plain inn! direct terms?
This was the case in the prescat petition, of which
he did not like the language; but he could not con-
ceive how the meaning of the Petitioners could he
expressed in more simple or less offensive terms,—
What would Gentlemen on the other side do ?
Would they prescribe the words in which Petition-
ers were to address Wou'd they dictate, like au
inpriroarer, the language m which they must be
drawn up? It wit• said t►at if this petition was re-
ceivod, their tables would be loaded with others,
equally or more offensive; hot in his opinion
nothing would so much contribute to load their
tables, as its ignominious rejection. The Hon.
Gentleman behind lion (Mr. Wardle) had mint
unwarrantably and unforly charged that side
with rejoicing at the committal of Sir Francis
Burdett. Whet did he mean by directing his hos-
tility to that aide ? Where would he have them sit?
Would he hive them go over to the other side?
Of was there any thing in bring seated on any per.
molar beach of that (louse, which was to draw on
Membera this sort of sweeping censure? He was I
friendly to all public ineen.igs and petitions, for
it was by the strong expies.ions of great public
bodies, that the House would be induced to adopt
measures which would save the country. Ile
would rather, therefore, encourage the exert-is.. of
the rig!it to petition, thus, by rejecting this peti-

tinn, as.tqt Mobsters in their insidious attempt to
take hold of certain strong expressions, for the pur-
pose of harrowing the right* of the subject; for it
ought to lie recollected, that these were the None
Moister* who Intl rebuked the City of Loudon
fur petitioning agaitist the disgraceful Convention of
Cithre, which haddisgtasted the nation from one rod
to tile others They were the same Ministers who,
when they durst not again rebuke the first city of the
empire, had shut them out from access to their Sove-
reign, mud, while their hands yet reeked with i he blood
of their country, locked sip their petition against the
failure at Walcheren its the °Mee of one of their
colleagues. tie could ace no danger from the en-
croachment of the people, nor,.. in his opnuon, did
the public voice., however generally expleased,
weigh too much in their decisions. A pretty
strong proof of this had lately beets given. Ile WWI
not afraid of too much democracy, and heitig un-
der no alarm nu these points, he would not consent
to violate a sacred right of the people. It had
been said, thwt this was not a petition but a protest.
lie was not aware of the delitiition and disiiiiettuti.
It certainty stated a grievance, and prayed a re-
medy. This they had a right to do, and the
Muse had acknowledged it in the proceedings al-
luded to its the petition. by rescinding their most
solemn judicial decisions. On these grounds, he
thought the dignity of the House would be best
coosulted by eisterter g this and sootier petitions.
By doing so, it there were any party !indignant as
was reptesente.l, their views would be 1, iistrited.
add their hopes &appointed; He could not think
that this was a 1110111elli for alarm, as nothing riaa-
gerous was indic.ited in any of the public its• etings
which had taken place. • Upon the whole of these
considerations, lie trusted the petition would Lie
received.
Mr. BARHAM explained.

Mr. WILBERFORCE there was nn person
more disposed than he was to treat petitioners with
candour rod itidulgence. He had always thought
that they ought to be slow in imputing evil ino-
lives, or starting at strong expressions. But, wider
•Il the circumstances of this petition. he must,
however unwillingly, comicientintioly and honestly
discharging his public duly, give his vote for its
rejection. If the House received thus, he had care-
fully looked forward, sod could not see where
they could ever take their stand. I‘' hen they came
to degrees of comperisou, it was difficult to decide,
and from going a little and a little further, the acne
of insult might be attained, before they coti!tl fix
on a ground for rejecting petition. The various
shades incited so insensibly into each other, that
pass the first and they had no where to draw the line
of separation. lie sow a very great difference be-
tween the two petitions, which had beep compared
together. Where a nieaning could he properly
expressed, and, instead a that, it was done iti terms
the most offensive, that [minion i.tiglit to he
returned to those who framed it, for the pur-
loose of giving them an opportunity, if they chose,
to avail theinsilves of it, of expunging what
Was offensive, anal of returning an capes as' of
their desires in a resumer which it was becoming in
them to adopt, awl befitting the House of Com-
mons to receive. Had this petition expressed an
opinion that the acteelf tlau House asitizeallwaial and
unconstitutional, and prayed them to reconsider
their proceedings, then nn tine could Lave objected
to it. But it did mote than th.s, for it staled, that
the House had so acted, tint as an opinion but as an
undeniable proposition. In the Weettiliorter pe.i-
tion a different course was pursued.—The first
paragraph began with it is our opinion," the
second and third with w we are convinced," and it
ended in "we call on you." The present petition on
the contrary et.ded with wwe prny."• When they
thus saw the practical forms, coupled with the solid
matter of offence, it would 'seem as if these peti-
tioners had studiously combined the injury to the
Holler with the form, in order to try how far, under
that musk, they could carry the insult. The Hon.
rientleilian opposite, (Mr. M. Fitzgerald) in his
opinion, acted rather harshly and unfairly towards
his Right Hon. Friend, (Mr. Pereevul), whose feel-
ings and actions were strongly indicative of a high
seal and regard for the public interest, when lie lic-
ensed him of wishing to narrow the right of the
subject to petition. How could the Hon. Gent. do
this. if he recollected, that when his own Friends,
and even the flienits of the Right Hon. Chancellor
joined iu expressing, most strongly, an opinion
against the Westminster petition. Fits Right Hon.
Friend had distinctly stated the dangers on the one
side, and the favourable circumstances on the other.
and candidly declared, that, in his judgment, the
balance was in favour of receiving the petition. He
reminded his Right /kn. Friend, that though the
cry now adopted by the pelitioners was to favour of
the popular side,yet too much ought not to be con-
ceded on that account ; for the time might come,
when the it pet.tions would he as much agaiiist the
popular interests, as they now pretended to be for
them ; and in the same degree attempting to run
down, vilify, and degrade the House. They must all
recollect, in the history of the country. that this
was the 4:44 in the iiistance of Dr. Seelteverel. In
the reign of Charles 11. the !maple were deluded into
p-tibons, praying that nu more Parliaments might
be assembled. Such things might happen again ;
and if they now gave way, they ought to remember
that they were destroying solid strength, and what
he might call the triumph of reunion and justice ;
that they were subverting all that wan consistent
with happiness,'stattility. and glory, to build up
confusion and disgraces—ll/ear, hear.)ln rejecting
this petition. they were debarring the freeholders
of Middlesex ho right Of privilege. They might
call for the re-consideration of any proceeding of
that House. The Hause would revise and reconsider
their acts, and they would dolt the more fredy. if they
did not alltiw themselves to bedietated to by any other
body. They would review their proceedings aith
that independence belonging to them, its the third
twinch of the Lerli.lature, and the unfettered Re-
presentative* of the people. Ile could have a
that their rejection of this petition had been accom-
panied by some such resolution as was read by the
lion. Mover (Mr. Barham), to sliew, beyond the
vomit:sky of nsisrepresentetne,, that they acted in
this way, from no feeling of alb out, hut its the ems.
{Nits-lance of • dnty incumbent on them. In pr.. rye.
tint their personal rights, hut the rights cf the
people intrnsteit to their ears. The presertation of
their privileges slid i'igetity was indeed a trust tint a
property. There was nutmeg in the petition that

might not he again stated inoffensively, and in a
stile consistent with the dignity of the Homo- to re-
ceive. As the petition new stood, he felt it to be
a duty lie owed to those who sent him there, and to
the people of F.tigland. %horn he represented, to
reject it.
Mr. &Imo's could not agree with an Hon.
Gent. opposite (Mr. W. Smith) that the House was
held in contempt by the country. or that it war
degraded in the manner he represented it. Were
it so, he would be ashamed to sit iti it ; *led he was
surprised that suy Member, holding such opinious,
should continue to fern' part of ao vile a fabric.
But it was the expression of such sentiments, by
Members of Parliament, that caused them to be
believed ; for people would think there was some
truth in assertions thus made even in the Howse it-
self by those °I to, own body. For himself, he pro-
tested agimist the doctrine as untrue, and would
answer lor that part of the country he hail the :AO.
flour to represent, and for other parts where he he i
friends, that no such opinions respecting tl.e Iluuee
of Comments were entertaiued. IVitli respect to the
paper under discussion, it was any thinebut ain ti-
lion. The first paragraph was an 11191111. mai the. s,-
cord an untruth. It was an untruth to siate, tl,4i.
military force miscalled in to execute the Sprit kei.4
warrant, as every one who heard him knew it w.i.
called in, nut for that purpose, but to disperse the
mob. He appealed to both sides of the Hiture—
To what authority were they to look—Were they
to look to the Irving ; the Parliament ; the Coneti.
ninon; or, to the Hon. Baronet in the Tower, who
would vilify and degrade them all ?—Were they not
bouud to crush such a party as this ?—The Hun.
Gentleman theu entered into the progress of the
riots, and contended. that in this too the peti-
tion was false, end that the blood that was shed in
the streets, rested upon those, who, by their resist-
trace to the execution of the warrant, excited to tu-
mult and disorder. Fie justified the conduct
of Ministers throughout. Had they delayed any
longer to call in the military, they ought to
have been impeached, and there would, with good
reason, have been a general feeling of indignation;
against the highly-commended, the exemplary con.
duct of the military, who bore so patiently the
pelting of brick-bats, and firing of pistols. mid
other Injuries, almost beyond human nature to en-
dure. No man would open the doors of the House
more widely to the petitions of the subjeet thou he
would, but this was insolent, libellous. rod untrue,
and ought to be ri jected.
Mr. Monaca slid, if hr drew the same conclusions
from the petition, as the Hon. Gentleman who
spoke last did, he would come to the same de-
elision. But he would not impute a design to offi nd
the House to the petitioners, and arguing, on the
principles of his Rt. Hon. Friend, (Mr. Percetill; for
the Wiestminster Petition, he would give that f ons
Middlesex also the fairest interpretation. Con- i-
dering the act against which it petitioned, he could
not think it was framed to insult. 11 it denied die
power of the Blouse to commit, then it would be an
insult, and he would vote for its r.jection ; but
surely it had a right to deny the power to commit
fur libel; a question on which so litany rnilln.lit
authorities had differed, aud which was now colon%
foe a 'legal &caries+. If the -Petitiorrers conscieto
homily thought the Howie had in this acted ill.-
golly, he did not see that in their petitinu they •
could express themselves in teems esaentially
different from what they had done. As for tl.e
observation, that, if they received this peti-
tion, their table would soon be entered »Ufa
others of a similar nature; he would rather see
their table so covered, than know that the semi-
meets were rankling unexpreeied in the in-ople's
hearts. He would wish to know, if thelse peritioes
ta cover the table were expected from the comity tif
Middlesex alone, or, that other counties would
follow the example ? This last was very impure
bable. The security of the country coesieted in
these public discussions, and secrecy and darkness
were not consistent with the Bilis') Comfit iitimi.
It was better to know what the general opiiiiiin
was, that, if possible, it might be guarded against;
than to have it like a subterraueoas lire, undettuste.
ing the Constitution, till, at last, one great
explosion buried the whole in runic The word
" protest" had been objected to, but he could not
see any variance between that and •, petition," at
least so much as to cause its rej-ction. Were this
Petition received, and the county of Mildlesex were
to petition again, then he would think it time to
make a stand ; for a second petition would he an
attempt to vilify the House. At present, he would
vote for its bring received, as lie could rather rot
narrow a right, valued by the people, than catch at
hasty expressions, howeser strung.
Colonel Wow) considered the petition as the
most disrespectful ever presented to the House ;
but a hether they rejected it or not. lie did nut
think their table would be covered with any thing
similar. The petition was not what it was staled
to be. It was stated to be, "The Notion of the
Freeholders of Middlioex, in full county amino-
bled." Of the persons aesembled at hackney, tint
one-third were freeholders, and the petition woo,
signed by no more than eight mimes. To this
meeting he, a freeholder of the comae. would tot
go, because he knew that nothing he could say
would be attended to, and that it was in vain to at-
tempt to he beard, in combating the opinion of the
party there sioembleil. There were many tree-
holders of the county deterred from going, fur the
same re-aeons, and because they knew there »a re
hundreds of persona there not freeholders, Jet,..
mined, by cry mad clamours to drown every vice
not raised in favour of their own way of thinktur.
lie protested against the petition being reertrtd
as the petition of the freeholders of Middlesex, end
he was confident, that if the county was po:led
nthertonutgithyotu,
tott I out o
sitgntt.f Lot of t s
tt.le Ie
would
thinksrhh
ntleiir a
reni.„..;:elt!
disgraced by its bring laid on die table.—(lleer.
hear.)—He might be Belied whey the, did o.ii the
9an 10 attend aud rej, et the prepostriuna t Ilia
answer was, bemuse they knew, that, so neer the
metropolis. it was easy to collect a crowd of pee.
In the
drown
course
every
me ofttlistiliti.big m
delete,
maws, swisrub.
sutit"ale'ln:sr:°liwuadrh.a w
been introduced, not te-ceseor'ly eisetweti il
with it. What had the conduct of the Mioisters t. -
wards Sir F. Btedett to do with the language rat Ili,
Middlesex petition ? Whether !Ministers were right
or a rong, the :segue?, of • petit Me to the I lou•e , f
Cisinriun.s Might to be re-pectful aced iouffetistie. In

Ms opinion, Ministers had acted wisely and correct.
ly; and were the tame to do again, they should have
148 support. By their conduct they had acquired
mach credit in the country ; had they acted
.otherwise, then, ioileed, the country might, with
good reason, have been dissatisfied with them. He
would vote ogaitist receiving a petition, which, so far
from being respectful, only cooforined to the terms
of petition, to cloak ita insults.
Lord A. ilauft.t.is thonght, that the nine
Freeholders out of ten, who would have opposed
this pedant, had done extraordinary injustice to
themselves end the House, in suffering it to be
agreed to Nu I presented. He did not thick the
word 6' protest' ought to cause it to he rejected.
At for the object of the petitioners, which had been
alluded to, he was totally ignorant of what it might
be, and could not therefore take it into his consi-
deration. He was of opinion that the House had
the right of committal, bid condemned the too fre-
goein or unnecessary exercise of that power. Much
as the petition had beets commented upon, litre
was one passage which struck hire as more ob-
jectionable tha:i all the rest, cud totally uniiscea-
may to be introduced. It was That in which it was
repeated, he was sorry
.to sap, repeated from the
authority of the House itself," that the sale of seats
way as notoeious us the sun at noon-day." He
coacluded by imputing to Ministeril toe blame of
all these petitions, as their conillict had furnished
the arguments sod language in which they were
composed.
Mr. SrEVEN said, the qu-oition before the House
was: aliether they were honiiit to retrive a paper
c tiled a petition, however tosalting, declamatory,
and campolsatory it might be ? and, second, why-
therthis was a paper of that description? • He hal
been anxious for the wijoaraineut, that Gentlemen
might have sit opportunity of examining sutra thcse
and coining deliberately prepared to &vide
thereon. In the course of the &hate, he• curd r-
stood but one Member, the Right Hon. Gentle-
man nu the dour, (Mr. Ponsunby,) to haves sake,'
in favour of laying the petition on the table, on
the gronitil that the sahj-iA hid that right, hos-
ewer ilisresapet•tful the laugh ige in which they up •
pro:idled the 110U6". Tne right of 'petitioning
was denied by no one; but would it be
held that, because that right existed, it might
he exercised in the must offensive . way ; and
language of contempt, nutlet the name of pe-
titiaa, he addressed to Parliament ? The subject
had an eon J ti4ht to pennant the King as he
bad to petition Par's stile:.l ; then let them
tarty principle of the Right Hon. Gent.
a little fis ;liter, and it would give the sithject
right to use contemptuous language to the Sove-
reign. [Tie Hon. Geist. luxe read the preamble
to the Act 13. of Charles 11. to chew that by law
(a law not trenched on by the Rill of Rights) the
manner of petition was regulated to prevent vio-
lence, stud why iniprlit it not be regulated to insure
respect to the fountain of laws, and not bring that,
and, by direct consequence, the laws theinselvre,
into contempt He then animadverted on what
had fallen front his Learned Friend, (Mr. Morris),
who, in declaring he would have been against re-
ceiving the petition, had it denied the autho illy of
the House to commit. had gene further towards
narrowing the right's of the subject, than either
he or his Honourable Friend (Mr. Wilberforce.)
were prepared to go. The subject had a right to
deny the legality of any act, but thereinto Jo it
in respeetful mid proper tra.ns. Has Learned
liiend had, sorely, not considered the petition,
when, after defining what he would consider an in-
sult, he had &Oared he did not perceive any In-
sult in its coutents. it not only denied their rights,
but accused them of " assuming and exercisiiig
a power tiithisoarii to the biw, earl one:aria:lw' by
the Constitution." They protested sot only
against the exercise, but against the existence of
the power. Agin', it was said, that this might be
an accident rl expression ; but the petitimiers them-
selves had precluded the possibility of this apology',
for they went on to state the object of their p •ii.
thin. They stated that their protest was the more
necessary, because your votes in its support (i. e.
the support of the existence and exercise of this
power) are entered on your Journals—nut so the
letter of Sir F. lint:lett to vou- Speaker, denying
you Inch joindiction." tile.n was the object
of their vote. The necessity for burin it recorrbd
as Sir F. Burdett's letter was hot. He was sorry lie
did out fee an Hot. Gentlem at (Mr. Whitbread)
in his place, that h.• might have asked of him,
whether this letter of Sir F. Burdett had not been
declared, by the unasinanne voice of the House,
" a flagrant violation of their privileges ?" and
whether he (Mr. %V.) had not pronounced his rearli-
MIS to adopt any stron4er terms that could
be applied against it ? This was the judgment—
the naafi:awns judgment—of the House, upon
the letter ; and yet the petitioners protested
sgainst that-eats, anti wi.hed to have something at
oNeitaive, nay, if po...sible, more offensive, gibes
tided for it, that they might li:ar them on their very
tl"roolfs-'-(iteoe. Ater. Fhis was the moat of-
fensive pa,. tut: in the petition, and he could not
cuoi•eive how Geotle:nen opposite, culled one great
party in the House, aid sharing in the general
oblorpsy thrown on all parties by these persona,
could think of exonerating themselves by imputing
all the dissatisfactioo created to Ministers. They
twist stand or fall together there was no
distinction. It was said, no danger menaced.
lu his opinion there was much to be feared
from 'system ssaidurniafl and elaborately pursued,
to alienate the- affections of the people from the
Legislature. It was part of the same system which
15 years ago had made a similar attempt upon the
Monarch, and, foiled in that, now tried a more dais.
germ, • flight, in attempting to bring the popular
branch of the Government ioto contempt. He did
fear, with the ignorant and lower orders, they were
too successfu', cud the more so at this period, when
the pressure of the times, end of taxes, were so sr.
yerelv felt, as to engender discontent, suspicion, and
ill-will. InJus!,rioustly did these systematic Re-
formers in one way or other continue their attempts
to overturn that glorious fabric under which Britain
had enjoyed happiness so great, Sod deviation so
high. it wail iiicum%-eat on the Home ta check the
raixii-e, and time whole flirtation now was, w ht:ther
to.", should do n, or initristier tc their urn dislio-

no s• There womait'an anot;.er passage in the'peition,
to w•i•eii he wished to c4ll their attention. It V/2.1
that la winch Mae patitsaucts declared they ~ viewed
•

with suspicion 3!).(1 jealousy • the alhuttiog up Sir
F. Burdett in pri-ou, when the attention of the
nation war ditecttd with autiety to his intended
motion for a reform in the representation of the
people." This, "if it meant tiny thing, meant that
the House had insidiously got tid of a zealous re.
former, to bait. thut reform► which was siece,sary.

It was arraigning not only their proceedings but
their motive*, and upon no other principle but that
of the. Right Hon. Gentleman (Nlr. Ponsontiy)
could the reception of such a paper possibly he con-
tended for. The arguments used in favour of re-
ceiving the Westminster petition were, that a con-
ciliatory diTosition on the part of the House would
spew their readiness to attend to the complaints of

the subject, and thereby ease them froin being in-
undated with similar petitions. They had nuw found

'that this did not answer, as, front receiving one, an-
other still more °Hi-noire had followed. If this also

was received, it would be represented as wrung from
their pesillanitnity ; and, in pursuit of that
which they called acting tirio!y and temperately,
others still more degrading would till they
were brought into utter contempt. It was now,
therefore, time to make a stand, and chew the na-
tion, that, uninfluenced by prejudice, and unawed
by menace, they only cousulted their good in pre-
serving the trust reposed in them by the people.
Mr. POMP/NOY said, that an expression had been
attributed to him, which he had never used. He
did not state that it watt the duty of the House to
receive troy petition containing an insult to it, but
that it was the practice of thel louse to receive all
petitions. He acknowledged the propriety of re-.
jesting tint thing of degrading and injurious mat-
ter, and considered the nectssity of doing so as in.
• Mr. By rto said, that having delivered his sen-
ft:twists upon the subject of the petition, he would
not detsin the House. lie could not, howaver,
help taking notice of an assertion which had been
titide by an Hon. Gentleman iMr. Wood) that the
cresting was not respectably attended. The lion.
Glotticinatt was not present ut that meeting, and
the ti6stort from whom he had received such iiifor-
mown, had been guilty of a Must gross misrepre-
deist etion. The meemhly was compcised of the
most revertible individuals. • -tenths of whom
were of opinion, that though, in certain cases, the
of Commons had a right to commit to pri-
son, yet in the case of Sir Francis Burdett no such
right existed. lie held precisely the same opinion ;
and even if the House had the power of 1,,,,;ty ;nuk-
ing such commitment, it was a power winch ehottiri
•
Ise relinquished. •
Mr. Woon said, he believed ht was correct
in stating that the inijority of the pet 401 assembled
at that in sting were not freeholders; :tad that. if
the Ilotn. Geittleinati had no more votes in his le II
than those of the freeholders who were present, he
would not be possessed of a sent in that House.
Mr. Metrasit said, that he would not say any
thing as to the respectability of the .neeting, but
he me:rived that he was not Ilriking an erroneous
assertion, when lie said that the majority of the
senility were not freeholders. Although Itis senti-
ments were strongly against the words of the pe-
tition, he would vote that it should lie on the table.
If it was rejected, another Would Ire framed ; he
wraith'. of 1701111 PW, an was his duty, attend the tweet-
ing of hits constituelit,, but he despaired of the fa-
vane of a hearing. When, upon the late occusion,
he hail Amer' that he conceived it his duty to bring
tip the petition to the House, and that he would
most faithfully perform that duty, he was heard
wittiont tide, ruptian ; but when he begat' to urge
any argument against the propriety Ofsi tiding such
a petition to Parliament, all was t.,inult and so-
ciferation.

Mr. StuEx explained.
Admiral !kw/E said, that he would give his
most d,eided Vo'r 1.,r the rejection of the petition.
A diviston their toJk place, when there appeared,
For the reception of the pi.toodi., ..... 55
Almost it 139
Majority di
AMUSE OF IRISH ItIENk.',NUE
Sir imam N LIIPOKT said, that,. to the question
which he hail to bring before the House, lie hoped
the most calm, dispassionate, and deliberate dis-
cussion would be given. It was of most initerial
importance, as it concerned the resetine of Ireland,
and deeply affected the interests of that count.y.
Under these considerations lie was convinced that
the discus-ion would be abstracted from all preju-
dices. Ttie legislature of that country had been
transferred to this; the revenue then of that coun-
try should be the peculiar rare of England, inas-
much as its benefit was the beneiit of F.oglarid,.
and as the neglect would be must calamitous to
both countries. He had bong considered the plan
of incidents as one extremely prejndici,d, and one
which it wits most necessary to abolish. Under
the denomination of incidents, not only pension
and salaries were ranked, hut every erooluinent and
fee obtained by those couriected with the revenue.
In bringing before the House the present subject,
he was not unattenderl by authorities of the most
toirptestionable nature. The Commissioners ap-
poioted to inquire into the Abuses of the Irish
Revenue., hail observed and censured this system,
as most injorious to the interests of the country.
He would direct his attention to ten eases in which
grants were made of pensioos t the first case was
that in which the grant of 10001. was made to ,
Mr. Croke'', Surveyor-General for Extra Official '
Duties ; this appeared, in the bill :'.'port of the
Com:Min:Muer*, censured. He did not mean to un-
dervalue the exertions of Mr. Cruker, or the services
which he had rendered ; the Commissioners al-
lowed that his business was of a most weighty
nature, but yet not sorb as to justify a grant to
such en amonot. He could not conceive any
greater evil than that of applying the public money
upon occasions where it was not deserved; the evils
resulting from a practice of this nature would be of
great magnitude and extent. The first resolution
he had to put was, thilt it appeared, from the ntli
Report .of the Commissioners, that the suits of
10001. was, in the year 1807, paid to Mr. Cruker,
fur his Extra Official Duties, together with the
annual aunt of SOU!. a house, &r. that the Commis-
' sinners of Enquiry did not conceive those duties
I were such as to entitle him to site Ii a'sum. Tee
neAt resolution he had to propose relater+ to a grant
to Sir John Slice, Receiver-fieneral—a grant in
contradiction to the rules of that Horse. He
had been in dice' only eight years, during which

he had performed i.one of the ilotioi of it.
was no ease of coninii4eraiibit; it as the ease of a
Mill of rank and fortnoe; lie WdAg I:eVerlileteSß,

superannuated. The Der and ie.olution was that it
appeared to the Coittiiii...toners that in the incidents
of the customs, Sir John S'iee had received the awn

of 56731 from the sth of August, tarn, to isos ;
and that he wits 'auperiumintied after being in office
but eight years, during which he had riot attended
to the duties of his office. Ile had another

tiou respecting the grant to the treasurer of the
pest-office. He could not help stating the grounds
'_upon which this gentleman had requested a su-
perannuation: The money received in the pod-
office, instead or being delivered into the bank,
was left in the hands of the deputy-treasurer.—

A reform was thought necessary, and a minute
was made fcir the purpose of getting the inn-
nay into the Batik. Many attempts were made
to do sway this minute, that the cask might
return into the old chtimel ; but the attempt
was ineffectnal.—The Treasurer wai•ed for a Go-
vernment which would superannuate him fur his
services, and he at last found it. Re supposed,
as he had not made away with . the money
which went through his hands, that he was entitled
to a large remuneration. The last resolution he had
to make was, that the House considered such a sys-
tem of conduct as this, highly- reprehensible, and a
violation of what it was the duty of Ministers to
preserve. That the yuldie money should not be
matte use of by (Acerb, and ihat such as had
dune so, were deserviiia the reprehension of that
Rouse. The Humnivalile Baronet said, that what
he had stated were hut parts of a vi•-v extensive
system. It would be found that main I.Hficers, nu-
sunerannuated. had salaries ❑nder Govern-
went, arising front other situations; that the ur
six pounds r-year were g.veti to a store-
keeper, when it could be proved, that bitwieu
130,0001. and 150.0001. sable in gricsila had dime?.
pelted, and never trait accounted for f,y ?A°
were justly TI.1,11011i111!€. lie coi•jure:t the mouse
to negative those grants—th.• moat be dis-
contented at seeing the rewards of girl f.dennusiurted

services.
Mr. Fosrea denied the fact of ih,. statement
respectiug Sir. Crasher. It we. the sopiiii.tti of the
Coins inssioneis, an opinion expres.e.d iii their re-
port, dint the money allotted to was not ob-
tained in consequence of extra services; ow
the co itr.ity, Mr. Crave had • right to insist
upon it; this money was toot elven as a reward to Mr.
evoker, it was compensation for a debt whn•h he
could have gained by law. Ile then stated in
what manner. Ile &feinted the conduct' of Sir
John Shee, which, he said, WON completely free
from any charge, either of neglect or unsconduct.

Mr. W. Staten coatended. that if Mr. Croker
was the cause of ativ abuse, was not for that
noose to consider, lint of tiros. who were his con-
trollers, the Conitniss•ouers of Excise ; and they
had lironglit forward, or produced, a report, which
world bear the Right Hon. Baronet oust or his al-
legations ; they declare that the torn of 10(101. WM.
a compe:l-aticiii which Mr. Croeee was not „with d
to, under the head of extra official duty 11,iw have
they come to (Ms enticlusion. without cutering into
purticolar heads and the merits of the case Thew
was, in lusopiniou, no ease that they ahontd luce
entered more minutely into thin the expenditure
of money. There was an Hon. (lent. on the tipper
site side, who, from his connection with the Gentle-
man who W. 14 accused, OnAlli ti be calculated to
make an expusi and explanation of the conduct
of his relative. He conceived that the Right Hon.
Gentleman was as much at liberty, as if hi, parent's
conduct was not brought before the view of the.
House. In his upitioni, this charge could not be
equal to thit against Mesas. W. and J.
Edwards, for tlit-rr de la:eatioh, which had not
any thing to do with Mr. Croker. It was
stated in the Report that it had :teen justithetile
to make remuneration to those S'ir.eyors *hit
had remitted hues; which went to the extrid to sae,
that Mr. Croker w uent,ted to the I,a f• of 48,ti001.
Fur the first time it hail come to Its knowledge,
that the Siirvey a.- el Id re,a ore half the tines
which were forfeited to the Crorn. If there was a law
for it, all _he could say was, that the stem was bed.
He recolleeted, that some years liack ao officer made
a 'satire, and was ordered to brew, hut lie refused
it, and sooner than give. Up hia object, he allowed
himself to lie disiiiiss-d. ' It was out the same iti the
present case ; he continued to the tat ; mid when he
sent in his Memorial to the CommOsioners, which
stated he had done extra duty, lie might to have re-
collet:fro!, that he was only lultillin. the duties of
the office he recemed a salary for, and which was
pail he the taxer wrung from his coustrymen. Mr.
Croker was recommended to the attention of his
Grace the Lord Lieutenant, and on his review of
the tleci•iiin of the Commissioners, he reversed it ;
yet he saw the propriety of the question bring
brought forward, NS the Report of the Cornmis-
sioners gave it full sanction. Thanks were dire to
the Hon. Baronet, taisJulin Newport, for, 11l his
statement, it made an expasi, that tic and those
around lion, who were not 'elute acquainted with
the cirentnateoces of Irish oFcwtomy, must let I
themselves thankful for.
Mr. FOSTER spoke in explanntiotu.
Mr. CROKE* said, he rose with less agitation
than lie would, if he had not been yelled on toy the
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. S II). Mr. Croker was'
appointed, in the year 1802, to the situatimi of the
Surveyor-General of Excise of the Port of Dublin,
at the salary of 8001. per annum, when others in the
same sititatiou had tire hundred pounds per year,
and two guineas per day, when called out upon
extra ditty, which was established by law.—
Mr. Croker, on overlooking the Er cue Laws,
found a clause, which went to the enforcement of
every distiller paying into the regular office Isis
duties weekly. He informed those persona of it,
before he acted ; which clause stated,. that one
moiety should go to the Crowns the other to the
Prosecutor. But how different del hr act from
the geherality of prosecutors—he gave up his own
share. The Honourable Member then entered into
a detail of each eirtumstance, and stated, that
at the peried of the case of the P..dwierts', hid father
as in Lonthoi. At the request of the Hmi. Baronet.
Sir John Newport. who held the offervel ertuatiou of
Chancellor of the Exchequer for Ireland, f•hey weer
persons in astute of bankruptcy, and iilw tome
in armor) an information as, tiled agaii.st the in. Jo
the satouut a the vtrdna levied, sad 20trUi. rectietd

from them. Mr. Croker being in Etiglatiti,
'Clerks of the Treasury did not know ling o reti
and made a wmng entry, which obliged ),It, (2,,,,
to pvtitioa his Excyllency the Lord Lieti.enan!
have restored to him what was his acted', no
The Hon. Member concluded by redornii,g
tdaisks to the Hon. Baronet (Sir 3111111 IS elv pot,
for the handsome manner he had spoken of
ther. He lived in us father's house, in his
confidence. and if the question before them was
be deuuniiiiitvd a job, he would assure them,
during that period he had never heard of it.
trusted 4e had not said too sauch—it was the
difficult situation Itx had ever been placed in.
Sir Jour! NE*PORT said, he begged Ifare
understood, that he never did, in sity way, me ,
ii aspersions against the official conduct of Mr.
Croker: and, alter the statement that had her]
made by the Hop. Gentlerrao. his relative, lie was
perfectly willing to withdraw his two first rerolu.
tunas.

After some remarks from Mr. Wctt.tstrr
Pair:, anti Mr. MAURICE FITZGERALD, the
SeLanett put the question, and the Resolutious
were accordinitly aithdrawn.
Mr. Tit:Levin- thought, that at that late hour of
night, they would act nith proprie!y bt a.iniarning
the deltate tut the othel Rvvolutittoi or the Hat.
Baroliet.—(.4 lout! cry of " on, go on.")
The SPLAK Ea theii pot the res..oution. relative
to the Right lion. William Furwar.l, Tre.t,tut!
of ti.e ipoat.oifiee, in Ireland, after e?,4,41 yvart:
services on full salary.
Mr. %VELLA sa.te Pore i a de-
fence of the roeusure, mud coot. ude.l, :hat a, it
was a „tent place. it riiight ant to 1* disturbed ;
but to the urrsugutent made by the present Lard
Lieutenant. it lia.l hecome a pllce of actuai ditty.
and the omit who had beet, returned to it «at
brought up in the Treasury, and sent there for
kis merit, vrithent any political interest.
After a few aor.lr (WWI Sir JOHN Newrw
Mr. HENRY THoloart., and Mr. IlloNSuNne, the
flowe di. tiled. when. there appeared IV, nit: Rita.

Aye,'
Nur~
Majority agaillst Ilw riceolutiouo sy

We ut.de:etutill the Clllll4l.lerati4lll 01. the dor:ifet
of Resolunonn is postponed till to-morrow. Ihe
other orders of the day were then ih.posed of, aid
the /louse toljourned at TWO O'CLUCIL.

sEir TfiE.! MR- Rf) Y. 4 f., COVENT.C.IRDEN.
Ibis prrornt. FRIDAY, Mae a, !RIO, will be acted.
THE CASTLE OF. AN IeAIICSIA.
Din Cr:sr, Mr Bellsmy ; Data Alpholll.l, Mr. liaclidiss;
hiisido Mr. Mamie.. Victoria, Min Bolton; Loriaisa,
Catalina, Mrs Liston.
`To whirls will be added, the Farce of
THE CHILD OF N.A.11:11l.
Tis morrow, King Fleury the I.:glith.—On
lit, Prince of Deoninik.—lM Tilailav, Macbeth
A New Musical Afttrprece as to rehearsal, add .01 rap
sutra be produced.

THE BRITISH PRESS.

LON DON,
FRIDAY. MAY 4.

Last night, in the House of Commits*, the 0-
jourited debate upon the 'Middlesex Petition awe
ermined. After it long 4 iiieti44loll, the House di-
vided, when there appeared, for ti.e receatiao of the
Petition, 59 ; against it, 139; the Petition was
thus rejecttd by a mujoritv of 81.
The West India fleet, comprising 27 a.ll, owlet
convoy of His Mai Lars 'a sloop Part: oslge, CAlot.
I' 00T, and Jalonse, Capt. :Vli);:ttti, as fa, as Ma-
deira, sailed from the Cove of Cork, on Thins.lay
last.
We have received Paris papers to the 17:h lint.
lioKAre RI% was then on the eve eat with
Ids Empiess ono too, through his iiewiy-aintiire 1
poises:urns in Midland. Private recounts state, mat
arrived at Atitwerp on the 19th last, after having
pasard some lime iewing the Canal of St.Q st. t
a.
The accounts from Spain, in the Frercb papers.
are not cf later date than the 13 h 1. st. fie
Madrid Gazriie of that day st..te,. th;.t Grenada
vaa, quirt : the inhahiutnta thereof, tune; otle-
t:clued, thonglit only of living peaceably trii e the
paternal Government of the Kings" who, it to said.
remained at Grenada on the. itBth of March, 10141.1
employed in endeavouring to conciliate the natives.
by the abolition of exclusive rights and privilete‘
This may have been a true state of King Jostels's
aitatation at that date; but we know, from more
recent accounts from Spain. through the undmin
of the Lisbon Papers, the slate of Grenada Inas been
since greatly altered, and that the wholi Wis'ern
part of it has been evacuated by the French. The
sanguinary Alasstaa,• according to report, Is to
have the chief command in Spam.
On Monday evening • tontwerotts M. cting nr the
Freemen of the City of Canterbury took place at
the City Arms, wheaas Ilequantion to the Mayor
tni C .1 11 .11.
" To tax the sense of the'Fret men sto the eattsonlinary
assompitoo of poser by a Mitidrity of the Hon, of Own-
-10.1155, awl Ilse yin lints abust s existing in "crytue l:e-sti-amens,
sti-amens, and t•s adopt sods atensares as non he decose.l
most lncite to a ratites, /Worn; tu the Kg-natal:de.
01 the People,- Sill propeed, and suantmottsly
The Iteniton matt insnieitisirly signed by aotatna of too
te st
of the most respectable Cdiseus.

OD Saturday, at No. ga, Strautl, Madame Waoltich,

sou.
On the Mb April. M his buns' m
in Bcdford-.lnei eh,
Lady of Geuige 564:441eu, Fly. of s daughter.

•-sticis %et STOCKS YElitZ
Bank Stork
a per Cent Itrdered ......
p per Cert. Commie .....
4 per test ........ ....,
s psu Ceat Navy f, ...... .lenq p
Long Annuaire .. .. - OAS
Imperiel Ansuities 6 15.6t1n.
[11(1111 Stu, k 1401
I udla Komi... T • .. 2U CI. p.m
FArherpiri Bills 31 b 14 p.m
Eogli..i. Lowry Tinitten. ......... ..,stl. 6.
Counoin fur ..•.......

:: COW!
.. 6911

...... •-• • • • ,
T. St..a.p..
4, Curabill, wJ p, Cho.

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