The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1807-02-20 00:00:00

There is nn possible line to be drawn, as to "here
our liberality is to stop. But Mr. Malthus him-
self has proposed the only other plan tnr the gra-
dual abolition of this system ; namely, that we
sheikh promulgate an edit% declaring. that no per.
son, within a year after the promulgation, should be
entitled to any parochial relief, and thereby be
would mean to esdnemish the Poor Rates altogether.
We should by Ibis plan wee clashing of contending
interests. and the community perpetually warring
tad jarring with each other. What then would be
oral situation, when all relief was totally to cease?
A Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Rose),
who has given ranch attention to this subjeel, has
told us, fairly and properly, that we would be left
is wetly the same situation we were in before these
laws were enefted. From the time that the Feudal
System had ceased in this country, the poor began
to he known amongst us. At that time, very few
eneelments were known as applcable to vagabonds
and beggars ; they Were accustomed, from necessity;
to beg for alms, and Monasteries occasionally
afforded relief. Valiant and sturdy beggars gra-
dually sprung up, and were a great nuisance and
offence to the State; 'they went about even to force
alms from thoie who were weak, and it became
necessary to Inflitt the most severe penalties and
pnaishments upon them. After the dissoluton rif
ti. Monasterie , this serf of mendicity beceme more
and more prevalent and distressing. The only mode
of prevention was cruelty and severity, and at last
enaftments were made. in the reign of Edward
the 6th, it was stetuted. that if any man was found
going theta the entre! y, without waking for three
d .ys, he was to cnntinue afterwards as a slave, to be
fed upon bread and water, and compelled to do any
work, however vile; and if he escaped from ten
ponishment, he was to be deemed gulty of fe!oey,
and if emelt/ended might be put to death. That
statute however did not exist long ; but others re
oast severity will prey/tiled. till the letter end of
the reign nI when these cruel laws as to
beggars Und vegahonds ceestel. Every experiment
was cried, before recourse w is had to the pte ent
system. From tie fife, to the forty-third year of
the Long and wise reign of El aebeth. was en:-
phryed in the censideretion of this subjelt, and it
was thought that the p!an was matured in the lees
ail pasted ektierg that period upon this vila.
Were these to be no relief or redress by all those
hors being done away entirely. a vast number of
prefligates and begears. uncentretiled by law,
would be thrown up an the community. The poor
would then, say to their fellow-countrymen, • If
yea do not aff ard me relief, i must seek for redress
by my own eeettioas ; I will a:sert the right of
nature ; I have a right to eccuey peaceably the
of the earth. and to cultivate it for my own
maintenance.' That, surely, is a state of society
into which I may venture es sae, that, on refleaion,
pe man would wish to see this happyy country
plunged. If, thee, it be neither wise nor politic to
propose the total and immediate abrogation of them
Poor Leers whi:h exist, what remains to he done ?
I: rat be doubted that a knowledge of those
"tinciples which render these laws humane in
their operations, should teed us so far to nio-
dify them, as to remedy many of their evils,
and render them less oejediainable. Such is the
objeft which I have in yi:w. I beg to say,
teat I am no wild enthusiast upon the cubjed.
I am one who believes, that • Man is born to
trruble. as the sparks Re upward ;' and that it is
impassible that a community can exist, without in-
numerable gee latiens in rank existing in society.
Those who thiek th at all men should be well
eltehal, well ft 3. and well lodged. will ulti-
mately fi t:wir scee.ntes, to effect these de-
sirable nerent, per:telly enegintry and fallacious.
There was a wish expressed by ore of the most
able Monarchs that ever live.], J mean King
Henry 4th, who thought it wee! • extremely de-
sirable that every peesert ..:;egnom could have
a pullet in his pot This however, was only say-
ing, that every men c ra sleeve those advantages
which nature does not permit. I remember to have
read, in Catims's .1-. none rrl Nett, Ssurir Wales,
that some of the convene who were transported to
that countey, were told, e a: thtre was another
ceuntry, at a great distance, where every thing was
produzel without labour, that those men set off to
obtain these imegioery comforts, but they perished in
the wilderness, ate! necerne* prey to wild beasts and
tottraltures. Upon these principle:, then, any politi-
cian who coule %ey, that there ihk):.;j be plenty,
without toil. would only 11:6.'1e-A the minds of the
commenity, in the war in which these unhappy
persnns were misled. The objenl I have in view,
tren, is so to modify, to regulate. and, in some in-
iterates, to add to tie leaflets and enadmente al.
reedy existing upon this stilt& ; sn as, in process of
dote, to ameliorate the situatian of the poor, and to
treader these very laws ohsolete, by a co-operation
et principles. 14e enhe to aka at muskies the
chore:ler of the labouring community, so as to
snake them ashamed of the relief that we would
give them, and to decline acquiring a liveli-
hood, by the assistance of their cm:laymen.—
'Ms would afford them the strongest ties to become
gond members of society ; and (should propose to
give a greater freedom to laboer, be:, at the same
our:, to discriminate, if tnsible. the criminal !tom
the nicer:icons. I have felt it necessary to he par-
ticularly cautions against any thing like ireinvetion
iron oar peewit stature, to open a awn new
leteetieet in our Cearts of Law. or to alter in any
d-
;roe the ancient beenelariet of the country. The
first &left which I have it) say, the ex-
Action of the charader of the labourer, and for
this Pligr's's every person most think that educa-
tion must come in wisely. It has been said, that
this Hulse ha; been Areti,torrke.l to open its doors
wide to Petitions frosts the suejee, upon whatever
• ape they may ehoom to start to na ; I may say,
Ova it is the true cluareeier of wisdom, to open
t ae doers wid r to trne understanding and to the
introdellinn of knowledge. Is there any thing
interior to the brute? It is uninstructed man.
Aa unenlightened undersaandiog in the human
TACP, operates with the greatest violence towards
their own destruaien, and that of their fellow-
creatures. I should propose that the whole of the
repletion of the country should hove the M 2141
of ?elevation. altholigh I keno, teat some pre-
indite% have existed alainst enlight-iting the mind:
of tee vulgar. But °I
trust tilVme principles have
• ,
"na .Is...bets,' env such

arguments will be used. Look at tl.e unenlightened
mob, and compare it with•ast enlightened assembly.
I would ask, whethet, in Atlknis, any thing would
have happened, as to the .Isaaisliment of Aristides,
thit Orttl &dually take place, had it not leen owing
to thrtondu& of an unenlightened mob ? I would
ask, whether an enlightened populace; in Holland,
Could have torn De Witt to pieces? and whether the
conduct of the mob, under Lord George Gordon.
bespoke an enlightened populace in this couirry ?
Look, Sir, at the situation of tictgland : What is their
superiority ow ing to, but to the elre!l of so psricr edu.
cation ? A misconception has gone forth, that
Scotland is not subject to Poor Laws, in the
same way as England is. The statutes, upon this
ieubjea, may be there, at all times, resorted to. The
decisions of the Court of Session have, on various
occasions, confirmed those statutes, and have de:er-
mined, that the steijetis of Scotlailil ate as much en-
titled to relief as in England. Tlusse laws, how-
ever, are now almost obsolete, being, for the rrs-
sons 1 have alluded to, rendeted unnecessary. The
situation of the Poor Laws in Scotland ought to
be 11.:41 up as an example to other countries. Mr.
Fletcher in his work says, that in there were
in Scotland 00,000 poor families, in such a situ I-
don as to be begging from door to door.
were great burdens to any country : tout now the
,4* ASP is completely altered, by means of their en-
lightened sate.
4 Q.iornm simul alloa.ll3lltil, Stella refuliit

Dcfluit text, nue°. humor."
The plucky of crimes had now become rem
in that country, w ach was also attrietttahle to their
being more and more enligetened, and in the same
proportion did their misery decrease. This surely
is etiough to enrage,: the necessity of national educa-
aint The expenee atteudiag it is nothing, when
compared with its advantager. It wculd soon re-
pay ten told in hard money. Of all reforms, I, who
hay bees, and still am, a friend to reformation, be•
lieve in my conscience. the instreining of every man
voimehout the country would be the most etfonual
The next plan I have in view, ter exalting tire cha.
rater of the labouring poor, is that when was for-
merly proposed hp Mr Pitt, and which met with
the approbation of many great charadivrs, and a-
mongsr others, the Right Hon. Gentleman oppo-
site (Mr. Rose). I mean to regul.te the law with
regard to settlements, as that has occasioned much
litigation, and b, eta piadative of many evil effeas.
In early times we find. that all beggars and vaga-
bonds were sent Irani iliac's they had visited, ;ci
where they were born, or %entre they bad last re-
sided for the space at three years. The Statute
et Charles the Second m tele such persons rrmova-
able to where they were last settlea, and hence has
arisen many evils. The law of Scotland is, that a
parish is obliged to maintain the poor who have been
resident for three years wallow interruption ; and
by the law of Mr. Pitt, a person residing five
years was to be deemed a residenter, as a
householder. providing he did not revere alms.
This last plan is what I propose to adopt, and 1
should not give any person use advantage of this, if
he has been conviaed of any clime. I w 04.4
give power to the overseers of the poor tti
inquire into the situation of every man who came
to live amongst them, as it is re. y nrressary that a
parish should know what persons beftng to them,
in case of sickness or death attacking them. I
should also propose, as a stimulus to labourers, t' at
the Quarter Sessions should have the power of giv-
ing rewards generdly, whereas that power was at
present very much confiued. The charaaer of the
labourer has been hitherto depressed, so that he is
forced to seek that relief which formerly he would
have scorned, and been ashamed to receive. I would
encourage those Friendly Societies which have heen
established under the auspices of the Rieft Hon.
Gentleman opposite (Mr. Rose). I also approve
of what art called Agricultural Societies, who
have held out rewards to those persons who have
rested the greatest winner of cnildren without pa•
rochia! relief. I should wish to make these in some
degree national, which have been only the etre& of
individual exertion and henevolcuce. Another ad-
vantage I would propose towards the poor, would be
to enable them to secure that portion of property
which they have acquired by their own t-idu.try.
Many Friendly Societies have been instituted for
this purpose, and they have bean found to operate
beneficially towards the Community. It has been
proposed to make one general Friendly Society
throughout the kingdom, and to compel every
person, under certain circumstancrs, to subscribe ;
but this, I think, would be destructive of the prin-
ciple; I w not cime near the posse labourer
with any sue' enactment. till such time as he
himself should come near me.—l would not in•
terfere with his gains, nor with his house nor cloth-
ing, till he ioked me to do so. Many poor persons
know best how to manage with the greatest
advantage, while others spend their means is ale
houses, or, for want of a proper place to pie it,
repose it to risk, and are robbed of it. Others
again lend their money on what is called a mort-
gage. As a remedy, Mr. Malthus has proposed,
that Country ainks should be estahlished ; but I
cannot help Woking, that the division into a
variety would tee injurious. and that there is
but one means of affording them security, and
even profit 13r their money; I mean one grand
national eau:ern for the purpose. This might
be instituted without much expense. If it were
to fail, nothing would be lost, and if it socceu.d,
it would be attended with local, salable advan-
tages. I would propose, that there be establohed in
the Metropolis a fund, what may be called the
Poor's Fund. that dime who subsist by their labour
should have the privilege of subscribing not less than
nor more than 51. and that he should, on no
occasion, deposit more than 2001. That interest
should be regularly paid him ; that there should be
exemptions from postage and stamp duties. No
persons to receive their dividends till it should
amount to 10 ; and in certain cases,
if it amounted to more than that, it should
be invested. Now, Sir, these are the leading pro.
posieiont which I hare to submit to the consideratioe
of the House. As to that concerning education, I
may observe, that were Ito propose that alone, it
mieht he even looked upon as bring sufficient, be-
e:moo the enlightening of the people will tend to
supplant the necessity of the other propositions.
lot giving of rewards itod the granting 44 seen-
•:•;s. h 'is-oast/a be Vet? ad iantneoull

in promoting the oljnas 1 have in
o sting evils
sting
may
in :sough time, remedy all Abe
in the present Poor Laws. 13at, lir, there yet re-
..n
mains a good de.il to be door, mules mast still be
raised for the purpose of securing those poor who
may stand in need of immediate assistenct. It he-,
comes us, therefore, n sw, when we have th's great
matter under consideration, to reded whether it
would not be possible to adopt a mote era able dis-
trilerion of the funds than that which now exists.
I would, therefore, follow tin the Statute of Elisa-
beth, which, when raising t!:e t Ate for the relief of
the poor. says, that it shall he levied upon every de-
scription of property and person. It even says, that
where a parish • could not raise a sittfitiency for
its own poor, other rates should be levied from other
parishes. This is the principle, but the practice is
so odious and difficult, that it has been very tardy
put into vox:lrian. Blackstone, Ashton. and Lord
Kenyon, have proposed their views upon this subjed.
The distribution of districts has been said to be a
great deal too limited, and that the rate of relief
ought to be national. If that were the case, there
would be no end to misapplication of the money in
answering the deorran2s made upon it. There are,
indeed, ninny peculiar eases of distress, which any
law that could be made) may not he staciently able
to reach. There are in the parishes of Spit il-
Gelds, and Mile-End, cases where it would he im-
passible to refuse affording relief. In that latter
pArish, the situation of the poor is peculiarly ar
gravated, by there being no opulent householders
whatever; the poor are living upon the poor. What
the poor man pins by labour, is extorted from him
by his own benevolence, in order to afford relief to
a fellow creature, who is perhaps dying fo; want, and
in doing this, the benefador runs the rink of dying
of hunger also. I would propose, that a general
return should be Made at the General Quarter Ses-
sions, by all the overseers in the• country, of the
amount of the rates levied within the last 7 years,
and if it should be found that any parish was in
particular distress, and had conducted its finances
wi:h economy, they should receive relief from the
whole ; I mean, that if they can prove that they
have spent more than the average county roe or
the country, for relief of the poor, they should have
an additional relief, by having douhie the average
r ire. Tne county rate was axed in the time of Kii,g
\Viliiam, upon the general rental; but since that
time, grievances had arisen in particular counties to a
very great extent. I should propose, that an
average upon the rental should be taken every
seven years.—The description of property upon
which the rate is levied, has not been properly
attended to. As the law now stands, it only falls to
be levied upon landed property; whereas, I would
propose to include personal property also. Another
itahjed, upon which Mr. Malthus has touched, is.
relative to the habitations of the Poor. I should
propose, that a certain number of cottages should
be built for the reception of a certain number of
Poor, in each parish, placed under certain regula-
tions. This leads me also to observe, that some
regulations would also become necessay for the
better ccraititution of the Vestries, which are ge-
nerally tumultuous and disorderly meetings. I have
I believe gone through most of the °birds of the
1311 am wishing to introduce. As to .he mode of
administering relief to the poor, I have to observe,
that the relief ought to be given in all eases so as
not to be maintaining them in a big! er situation
than what they can possibly maintain 'hernial/es in
by their utmost possible degreeof industry. It would
only tend t t encourage idleness, arid instead of dimi-
nishing the no mber of poor, would materially increase
them, were the public to support them in a higher
style, than that which their real distress entitled
them to demand from the public benevolence. I
confess that I am no friend to the Work-houses,
nor airs I a friend to any kind of compulsory labour
to be ad: pted towards the poor. That kind of sys-
tem originated in the Reign of George the Ist, and
has continued ever since to be delusive and fallAcieus.
Though I am not disposed to refine on those general
principles which have almost universally been ad-
mitted by speculative men, who have dire9cd their
attention to the Pour Laws, and am perf*'hiy aware
that in speculation the hest of men may differ, yet a
recourse m general principles most be had. It can-
not, and it might not to be coocealed, that Parish
Ollcers do not discharge their ditty with that fide-
lity which is so much to be delis ed. This, how-
ever, cannot in all cases be ascribed to those persoes
who are engaged to discharge that office. The error
is not in the individuals. the system itself is erro-
neous, .It was a difficult task to point out all the
different rniaute alterations which sound policy
ought to adopt. IVhAtever my own opinion may
be, I heartily concur with the sentiments of those
who think the system erroneous, and that work
houses ought to be abolished. 'lle introduction of
new measures generally excited alarm in the minds
of those who did not fully comprehend the nature
aid extent of what wits proposed. I am come-
quently of opinion that no new workhouses should
be ereded. Many beneficial consequences would
ec:rue from the young, and even the old and infirm,
being boarded with their own friends. They would
be more attentively waited on, and what is, without
the exclusion of the other, .-sore particularly under
my present view, economy would most ce.tenly
prevail to a far greater extent than what it now
does." After apologizing to the House for detain-
ing them so long, Mr. ‘Vhithread then stated the dif-
ference which existed with resped to the average ex-
pence of individuals who resided in towns, from those
who lived in the count: y. 'rite former amounted to
181. a head, and children in the count: y o ere 31
only. " I have nothing new," said Mr. W. " to
propose in the plans, which, on the foundation of
this Motion, I shall lay before the House. The
shape may to some appear novel, but it is not so in
reality ; and even the novelty of the plan which I
have attempted to describe, and which I intend to
follow up with a Bill, shall not deter me from adopt-
ing those measures which are calculated to promote
so essentially the interests of a very numerous body
of the community s And if it oniy accomplish what I
have in view, I am satisfied. What can be of more
importance to the interests of mankind, than educa-
tion ? It could not be denied, that this was ne-
girded. to a very great degree, in this country.
But, if it had been lung negledett, this was no
reason that we should continue pertinaciously in
the same system. Education is intimately con.
nefleil with morals; anJ without morality, theft

can be na eery • ity. rrugatity was nestle aged,.,
.berth ; ar.l, I el::1 4eld to see. that it is improssyte'
for one In exe.t cethout all. The plan which (
have to propose, appear: to me greatly stiprrior is
any on: vs which I have ever direeted my 2t.
tea:ion. 'The fitosidation of my plan is to pe,,,
vide labenr„ where it is teqeired. I am hold to mt.
that the grand secret of off r.!ing effaelual rela_l6
the /yew, can only be ohstained by those mans,
and this w.s the ohj-ei which the men early ses.
aces w:th regard to the pour, not infirm, 114
view. Ido not propose to enter upon the cor,tix
very minutely, ea whom do taxes fall. in a ceniii
seose, it may be said, that the burdens hell o~ arm
equally. •I
-hey, in some instances, fall on those Wen
are ben able to pay them, and those who do sq,
contribute to the convenience and comfort of
fellow rive errs. After the most mature etrbilcrs.
Lion, I do think the workhouse system a bad
It pretends to have justice in view ; brat this
the case. It is altogether impossible, iu the t
course of things, to distinguish between the
sitou,. and those who are not so. I aga-n enc.;
iodulgenre of the House, and beg leave to mera,,,'.
that 1 propene that the Bill which I mean to ire,.
dude should go into a Committee after the lielyitee,
and, if possible, be decided on in this Session of
liament. Foreigners and others tell us rt. e:r
Nationel Debt ; but our Poet Laws mutt tie2-ere.,
every intelligent pesters as a greater Inad than in
thing else of which we have to cnaripl is. I note
that leave be given to bring in a Bill tor prometieg
the contort of the poor," &c.
Mr. G. ROSE observed, that he seas someiqn
afraid of the efficiency of s-me of the mea.ures
which the Honourable Gentleman proposed. It was
his opinion, that the obje.ct he had in view c.et!" not
be effeefed in every part of the kingdom. Mr great
ohjeet WAS, that the poor should have it in onr
power to support thetas:4ra, and without this,
nothing could aff Id them soy real sell -. The
county of Lincoln, he said, did chat never en
done any where else, and the measures there adoptce,
were such as he would recommend to other parts of
the country. Unless this was the case, it %wild/ be
found to be a losing game. He was of opinias,
that though it was easy to &vie theobjeet.k oegte
nevertheless to go out to the country, and it might
afterwards be found necessary to ..sake some Awe-
tion is the resolutions that might he adopted.
Mr. ELLI3ON cautioned the House not to .1.
peel toe much. Mr. W. had, no doubt, thrnwa
much light on the subject, yet it might sec liappe-,
that, by some minute regulations, the poor might
be placed in a worse situation than they already
were in. The great cause of the hardships under
which the poor laboured, appeared to him to aria
from an inattention to the statute of Queen Lim-
beth.

Mr. SPF.NCER STANHOPE agreed in mei.
ment with what had been expressed ; Lot were he
to give way to what were his own feelings, lie w:oll
be disposed to split it into valions Bills. It rright
be put into one, two, or thice Bills.
Lord HOWICK did not wish that this messtm
should he pressed forward too much. Wham wee*
n.) doubt, evils to be correfied. and which he mist
solamnly was desirous to see correEled ; but, on a
matter of so great importance, the utmost caunaa
and deliberation were necessary. The observances
of his Hon. Friend, who had introduced the mo-
tion, with so much ability; had his approbation;
and, he hoped.
~--. that smut effednal resututioa
would be foutifed, on what would, no 4164
be laid' before the House. He hoped the 113
Mr. W. proposed to intzoduce, wauld be ptintel
before the holydays. This would give every Mon-
ber an opportunity of considering it with anere
Son. He d'd not, at present, deliver any opinioa
upon such parts at have been submitted to the
House this evening. He agreed, however, on the
whole, with what had been advanced, though, is
some particulars, be might stiffer.
Mr. S. BOURNE and Mr. WHITBREAD
made a- few observe-ions. • •
Sir JOHN NEWPORT approved of the pin
which hal been so ably detailed to the House. la
Ireland, there was certainly great occasion for re-
lot m ; but, to his personal knowledge, from the bad
cffailts the Poor Laws had produced in &grand. it
was the feeling tbrouihout the country, to view
them with great relitElance. There were many
houses ce industry in Ireland, and besides the ti •
tim-my of others, Mr. Howard had given them his
approoation. The administration of those
en t charities called for the approbation of cry g 0.1
man. Those charities were certainly susurpoble
of a great deal 0f term m ; yet, it is a tact well as-
certained, that the average of the maintenance it
ideots and lunatics was only 71. per annum. This
slim must be admitted to be very small.
Mr. BATHU 116 wished that the Bill should be
print-Li early in the next month. It was in some is-
snots necessary. that the whole bill should be sub-
mitted, and if any parts of it were found to be be-
neficial, they would then be adopted.
Mr. WHITBREAD consented to print any one
part, as he judgment of the House might direct.
AufoultNED DER ITE UN THE FINANCE RErog7.
Sir JAMES PUL TEN EY thought, that sore
bounds ought to be set to the Sinking Fund, ar:l
totally dOmiaproved of the War Taxes. He ir..•
tempted to give a history of the progress of "
Simi r, Fund.
Mr. H. THORN CON observed, that the stiliPt
deserved very considerable attention. The n:**
speculations of Administration were apparently std•
vantageous. He was in the House when the Sins--
Mg Fund was proposed, hut he thought it dangetoc•
to touch it. It was small at first. There were three
plans, he said, which had been proposed. and c'"
those he commented at consiueraide
Under the present circumstances of the Coutinint.
and the immediate relations of this country. ague
was no greater enemy to our prosperity, than c,t.a
em•nsive principle of funding carried-car in this
country. There were intimations given to the
-lir, that no increase or addition of tarition wou
a.
under any circumstance. take place, fur the spice
of the ensuing three years. This hope, b*".'
ever pleasing it may appear, Or sedisla:,,,l
on the first suggestion. did ant appear to it'ff
so ultimately innefictal. He should prefer
intciruediate taxes, for the purpose of exirica.
ing the country horn the in:oscine pressure
klt'ut which had sad was accumulating. TI
-debt was a great and awful sc :ight upon •