The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1824-03-12 00:00:00

EXPORTATION OF WOOL.

Mr. MANSFIELD presented a petition from Leicester, agautat
the exportatioin °flaw wool.—Laid on the table.
COMBINATION LAWS.
Mr. MANSFIELD presented a petition from the joumeyrre4
boot and shoe makers of lAughborough, in the county of
Leicester, ...pawn the Combination Laws.
Similar petitions were presented by Mr. 11. Coo eta, from the
Journeymen shoe-makers of Gloucester; and by Mr. AIUNDY,
from the boot and shoe makers of Derby ; all of which were ordesud
to lie on the table.

FOREIGN SILKS.
Mr. AVARRE presented a petition from the inhabitants of
Taunton in Sontersetahire, against the importation of Foreign
Silks.--I.tdd on the table.
Sir W;GUISE presented a similar petition from Gloucester.--
Laid on the table.

Lord A ',THORP presented a similar petition from Kettering
in Narthamvtonahire.—Lald on the table.
Sir T. LETH 11/l1 PGI; ptssented a similar petition from Taun-
ton.—Laid on the table.

EXCISE LICENCES.
Mr. DENNISON presented a petition from the innholders of
Brixton in SOrrer against the Excise Licenses.
Mr. DAVENPORT presented a peti;imi fr Mac-.
cleefield.

Admiral SOTHERON presented a similar petition from Ma
Ls:
field.

Lord DINNING presented a similar petition from Rochestes.
Mr. Alderman WOO!) presented five similar petitions from th.
Wards of Queenhithe, Dowgate, Aldgate. Candkwiek, and 'With
brook, in the city of London. The pctitiooas complained ttLiS
faith L 4 been broken wit) theta, that Ws my oppressive and
grfreees of Bad been laid on solely as s war tax, and that (114
Minister had stated that it should be abolished after a four yeary
ram; cons uendy they ought to hare been relieved from it ilk
1818: but it .tow appeared as if the tax were to be treated as • per;
manent one. They therefore earnestly entreated the Out. to take
it into its serious consideratio.
The whole of these petitions were dedesed to lie on the table.
L HEEMASONS.
Mr. SPRING RICE presented a petition from the freentasone
of Limerick, praying that the House would offord them its }sits..
Lion.

COFFIN said that 30 years ago be was made a Freeman n
of Ireland, and that the secrets of that wisuciation were fnuhded 04
charity, loyalty, and honour.
The petition was ordered to lie op the table.
IMPORTATION OF WOOL.
Sir R. FERGUSON presented a petition from the earpet.manol
Stainers of Durham, praying that the laws relating to the non-.
Importation of %Owl, might ngt be altered—Laid on the table.

DISTRAININ6 FOR RENT IN IRELAND.
Lord ALTHORP brought in a Bill for altering the returdv'tv
Atoms in Ireland--The Bill was reed a first time; the secon.l
reading of the Bill was fired for the Ist of ilay.

SMALL-BEER BREWERS.
Mr. DENNISON presented a petition from the small-btrt
brewers of the testrn of Dorking, praying that all restrictions ,a
thcir trade might be removed.--Ortiered to lie on the table.

COAL DUTY.

Colonel TRENCH preeiiiiedaietiao;:from Cambridge, against
the duties on cods awned coastwisa.—Laid on the table.

A similar petition was presented by Sir M. W. RIDLEY from
Newcastle.—Laid on the table.

itEcovEgv OF SMALL min's.
Colonel TRENCH ivremoted a petitiqo frora Cambridge iq
favour of the Bill for the Recovery of Small Debm—Laid uo the
table.
MUTINY BILL.

Mr. CRORER moverf;he I);dter of------ fat receiving the
Report of the Mutiny BiIL The BM was then read a seconl
time, and ordered to he read a third time to-marrow.

CONVICT'S TO NEW SOOTIIWALES.
Mr. IL G. BEN NET moved for a return of all Convicts trans-
ported to New South Wales in the years 1829 and 1823, diem-
guishing the males from the fernalea.--Ordered.
DITTIES ON FOREIGN WINES.
Mr. W. SMITH presented a petition from the dealers in
Foreign Wines in Norwich, praying the House to lowa the
duties an French Wines.—Ordered to he on the table.
Mr. T. WILSON moved, that it should be released to the Ft.-
reign Trade Coumeitter.—Referred ecpordinKly
WEIGHTS AMJ 74EASUR.ES.

Su O. CLERK morel that the Report of 'be Committee on
Weights and Measures should be read a sword dam—Ordered to
be read a third time on Mundy 3r next.
SALMON FISHERIES.

.....
Mr. KENNEDV presented& petition from Irvine, relative to
the Salmon Fisheries. lie gave name, that on Wedmailey the
itth of March he should bring this subject undo the consideration
of the House, unless tiovernment took up the question in the meet;
time.

After a few observations front bad A. Ilarttivroir, Mt.
DRUMMOND, Mr. HUME, the LORD ADVOCATE. and Mr.
LINDSAY, the petition was laid on the table, and ordered to Le
printed.
•
ALIEN ACT.
Lord J. RUSSELL moved for a return of the number of per-
sons sent nut of this country under the Alien Act, front the Ist of
January, 1816, to the lst of January, 1124.
Ordered.
RIBBON 1.01)0M.
_ _ _

Lord ALTHORP rose, in pursuance of his motion, to bring
under the consideration of the House a question of considerable
importance, viz.: to move for the correspondence between Mr.
Bennett and Mr. Oregory, in the year 1823, respecting the Ribbon
Lodge. in Ireland ; an he felt that it was necessary far bun fo
state the grounds why he thought the production of these papers
should be granted. It would be recollected that in the 'you I dtllt
great disturbances had existed in Dalway, and had extended them-
selves to Mayo. They became so alarming that the Merrther for
Galway thought himself instilled in moving for the renewal of the
Insurrection Act, which was accordingly enforced there. In cons..
quence of these dilnurbances many trials took place, and a pinch -
nation was issued by Mr. D'Arcy of Galway, offering an amnesty
to the disaffected, on condition that they would take the with of
allegiance, renounce ill connexion with illegal societies, and give
up their arms. Many were induced to comply with these tams,
and there has been no disturbance among the people in that part of
Ireland since; but it has been remarked in the report of the C.int-
missionent, that they have been particularly quiet and orderly, ar el
that their conduct could not be too much praised ; he wieLoi to
have that Proclamation, and any other that might have bee► issued,
produced. It could also be remembered, that in the year 1b22 the
Attorney-general for Ireland, whomfie then saw in his plate, in-
stituted several prosecutions against what were called Rlbbon-nien,
for taking illegal oaths, and upon these prosecutions tee men were
convicted. Subsequent le their conviction Mr. Ben acct, who
had been their counsel, notified to hir. t lregory, who' he believed
was the Secretary at the Castle, that be had a commucicatiun
to make to him respecting the Ribbon Societies. It was stasis/
that they %ere ready to take the oath of allegiance, and to give
up their arms. Mr. Bennett finally pressed tot an answer, find
the only answer he veteived at last we., that Ms. Oregery had
laid before the Lord Lieutennt the CIIIIIIIIIIDICIOOII non th. t

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sentiments, and as soon as his Excellency's pleasure was made
known to the writer, it should be furnished to Mr. Bennett. In
the mean time, the two chaplains of Newgate, Mr. !ruby and Mr.
Fore, mentorialed the Lord Lieutenant. recommending that the
111234111 Ce upon Hughes, who was convicted and sentenced to trans.
portation, ahould not be carried into ellitt, and to that memorial
no answer wee given. On the Itlth July following, Mr. Bennett
again adder:seed Mr. Gregory, reminding him of his former letters,
hut no notice was taken of that letter. tinder !lime cimitinsuomm
he was utterly at a loss how to account for the conduct of the Irirh
Government on this occasion. It appeared meta unaccountable to
him that so favourable an opportunity should have presented itself,
without being %civic' by thc Government of Ireland. Here ass a
threct course nine to that Government, and they had only to adopt
in order to put 6mm one of the most powerful factions in that
divided country. It west nurse tom in the interim of • hich no
principle of it. unit policy cou!d hate been sacrificed, and no por-
tion of their dignity in icy respect contiromisad. lie n.uat, an
candour, admit, that the inipmsion uyon his wind, looking calmly
at this question, wee by no nicer • fast arable to his Majesty's Go-
vetnment in Ireland. The House would recollect, that to the tint
lettet an immediate rmswtr was n turned, when it was discovered,
however, that netr to the strong um of the law, but to the milder
snitem of mediation, was it intended to appeal; tic letter which
suggested such a mode of subjugatit n was regarded as nut descry-
ing an ensure. Now, Government bail experience of what was
jerformed in I('211 by amnesties, and hr thought it right that the
House should he in pusses.toto ef that intone:sties. He was.not
aware whether there was any ui jertion to the production of the!
papers for shit+ he meant to move. in fittltr that an opportunity
might be given to all of ascertaining whether his blayeacy's flo-
verinnent in Ireland bad not exceeded the Jibe which sound policy,
rather than a hive of excessive prosecution, witul.l have dictated.
For this pun pace, he should score fur the production of the corre-
spondence Weiss Richard Newton Mem tt, Esq. and ?dr. lire-
gory, in the year Hr 3, impectlrg the suiiy.ression c.f. and an am.
nasty to the Ribbta• lodges in Recited; .1?w, a memorial from
Mesa-. Lobie and lizto the Lori Itieuteritow of liaised, on the
ease of Thomas ; y correituulence between the
Government Government an the Magi Irish Government m r
strates of the counties of Mayo and
Galway, respectit.g an amnesty to the Ribbm-usen in I h2e.
Mr. G(H. I.Bl' MN said, that he rose tinder the circums.anms
is which an official pt ram was not seldinti, plated-adult of net hay.
lag had 'mini--tint time to precure the partmular papers for the pro-
dustiest of which the Noble Lord had moved-a—

Im ALTIII ?HP, across the table—l deferred this motion In
order that rout should have lime,
lilt. GOHLOURN.---1 ant aware of that, and 1 am rot un.
miadfel of the Nebie Lord's extrusy. However I think I can
soon satisfy the Home that it would be most inexpedient to grant
th 'epees ; aid it Ido not fail in that attempt, there will need
apohrity on the wore of delay, thou ct though the fa is as I have stated
ti, that the late inrlonsericy of the weather, and the contrary
winds, mhe tegunled by the Noblo Lord as very much opposed
to the production of these paper.. With respect to any proposition
of amnesty mods iu Galway In Cm year 11120, he could not speak
from his awn knoiledge, and the Information ha hail reedited on
that su bites was of much tee vague and general ensue: no enable h m
to sea:* any thh.g Nen which an accuratereliance could be reposed.
Upon the present proceeding he should come at ones to the material
pan of the charge', and he wok the charge to consist of this guts.
into, proposed In sobstance to the Ilouse :—Was the Government
et Ireland junitied in refusieg, upon the terms proposed, to pardon
Gulches P Ti.at was the substantial inquiry, though the preen(
mutton was limited with specions dexterity to the mere production
asepses. The co ,duct of hia Majnay s Government at. lealsod
then, was the real ioiestion at issue, and formed the very gist of
the !insert merlon. There has long existed in Ireland an illegal
nasocistion, entered by its very coratitution against theatablislied
outheeitita of the land. (hear.) 'That thin asaociation was bound!
together for the mast mischievous purposes, he was justified in
saying, trim the cheer of the Noble Lard. (Item. from I ant Al.
th ) Now, from the constant secrecy w.th whirl, their meet.'!
ings wars field—front the pledges of fidelity thathad passed between
the (timbers, it became a matter i f extreme difficulty to. bring hams ,
and establish, to the aatisfoctioa of aJury,tlit. guiltof any individual'
411 h fleeted *kb this association. In the beginning of the year 181'3,
the tiovernnient had stilmnitted to them the means upon chichi, in
the (minion ef the law Ot• cers of the Crown, they could establish
clearly the gu:lt of tom of the ringleaders of this daring association_
one, who was not in the htwest runts of lire, but a person of con-
biJerable importance—the very chief of the parry. This man was!
tried and conviettd. Nuttsetitiet,ily to his conytetion, two petitions,
were received by the tioyernmeat —the first claiming his exemp.
tlOll from punishment upon the ground that the oects of the
no,:iety of which lie was a lUellilher were ,anocent ; and the lieenild
rating that if he was pardoned, the ribbounien would woven. to
tie, up their arms. 'rite petition to which he last alluded, further
timed that there were at that time in IrcLutd 1300 aseikpossemed
of arms. (Heil.) Now, he would yak whether thin, vela CUtilitr) an
the face of the earth, with the simple excel:lion of !Nicol, in which
seek a proposition could have been mode to a thivern.nent. (flair.)
Could any man doubt the nature sod tenderey or that offer ? It
was a piece of artful diplomacy, and intended nut to conciliate but
to overawe the Government. Ilene theft was the case not of a de.
*mild and unwary man ensnared info the cmibission of a crime,
wh!ch be subsequently abhorred, but this lira art is stacce in which
there eeniel be no returning loyalty; for Mr. Hughes had canted on
his profeselon in the most extensive walks of ilisaffrtien, anal he
bad h:insei recruited for the ranks of rebellion. ever there
wits acme In which such a sentence should hairs been carried into
execution, it was in the instance of Mr. Iluglirs. Ilia the propo-
sitions submitted to the Govemonnt on this subjeet were really ridi-
culous. It was proposed that II tighea should be libergted—thst he
would ride its a enause—no, not in a chaise, that s as an exaggera-
tion, but that he should pruned to different meetings of Ribbon-
taco, and harangue them upon the mischievous consequences of
dishiyalty (bear), and that as a mattessof course the sinipleatiinded
Itilthonmen should become nit aeulously deeded to the established
:6o:hod:La. (lieu.) Such were the propositious which the
.nrreit of Ir land man it not prudes tto alma. Now it could not
we burrowed by a my linden a I acquainted with the disposition of
the Noble I.ord who presides over that country, that sevo soy in t e
administration of the law constituted any part of his character. In.
deed he. error, if emir It could be called, lay on the other sick foe
ethh great circumspection and rinyarksble tertdernuts did he weigh
such Cet.s sod wherever mercy could he administered, the op-
pertains?, was siever lost by that Noble Lord. At the same time it
woaLl argue a puerile imbecility (shich was not less than severity)
in the character of the Noble Lord, did he yield to such appeals as
Shows which bad been la industriously made to what vile teemed
rimed policy and discretion. lied there been any hottest dispati.
lion o r the part or these deluded men—had they cones forward at
maw and SUI7ClIllet their arum, and had such an been rejected,
t irolevd there would be some substanted ground Slur the motion
Al the Noble Loot °matte. Het there were no indications of
IsPerniturr.i, and the Government who yield, el to the baits thus
clunwily administered to them, could no longer obtain, an they cer-
salt!, westhi not merit, the contider.ce ot the country. (Shear.)
hi 7 felt it, under the circumstances that lie haul stated to the noose,
a duty in rigibte she motion.

ABIiRCROM BY said he had not the advantage of heal,
idg the talent/it of his Noble Friei.d. but he ads ro fortunate as
to 11114 the reply of the Men Hon. Gentl •:ietti ; and as he was
sto: t3.4loquaint,ll with the circumstances of this rase, he was very
111.11' J, brt to deliver his semi n tents upon it. In the :Ind place,
utzet, be had not the slightest hesitation in admitting that if the
pmpeeitimis made to the elorernment 'pie correctly repn-.sented
by the /tight Honourable U.mtlemati, the I iorautne:it wzre right
to reit:slog to accede to them ( lien. hue.) Upon this point
it, lolly agreed with the Right Honourable (ienfleman, but
fr duTered erkb the Right lion. Oentlentan, ail to the fact., and what
its !futile Friend, es he should imagine, far he hail not heard his
lendeel, siahed to know was, what were those prop osition,'? (Ileac.)
Lis Noble Vrieud then amerted, and bemid that brfora they came
ts a Outsize) lapel' this subject, they must be supplied with the
r•id met). (Hear.) Was there any thing unreasonable in that re-
tc-es., or nimbi ingenuity interpret it into a reproach upon the
linvertincult Now he had mean that eurnepolulence, aid he
moat say MA there rimer wad a stronger prim a
°Ark ease made out
I that which stood recorded in the evelener of that torrespon-
&aft 'The application, if he read that correrponderre correctly,
wis wale witluut any qualification or conditiou (" Hear!" from
Pludkett). The Leaned Attorney-Ilene/al for Ireland
eldieasd—cild let mean to deny that assertion ? (31r. Aber-
uratabla had mad that which professed to be a copy of the arm-
pat:derv) between Ale. (Impel cod Me. liannett ; sod in die
le:hret 3f the one, or the answers of the other, he could thecae, no
one elosuldho or qualification annexed to the flier. Now, if the
ilighz nor. (lentleraan poseeseed such papas—paper% to justify
him en the assertion that such qualifications and conditions as he
bay mentioned were proposed, the remedy was easy,—let him pro-
deer. il!? CO.'s NpolldelWr. altar.) What mischief cauld arise—
ring' rid could Mt engtudtted (ram their production ? If theasate-
men: or the Right lion. ilentlenum was eurrect, as he was quite
sore winded it to hr, tide cause of the tioveromind could nut
prevtliet.: ; for it was admitted on all hands, •Ixit the t tureen-
neat inn Ai 1" • :mil) in reftising to countermine, even Cita doom/3,
such I:Attests Whine there was such a disinet opinion on the
lOW 1.4:4 slay on the ether, mil that opinion limited eierely to the
timers of due corre.puntknce surely the moo of ertual tootle would
be to tonalutte obi ots:tot d docuitsentr.. it WWI WO, 10 he furgotten
a' arm petty wee, t.r irrblld,to.3lsl4ly &Rigid agentst the other ;
title rat. xn; /treat riot of the evil, and it was useless• mal if net
WWI woutkl be mem unjust, to attempt to put down tote party,
wleilrthe odes rt.., ptvotiusd to flourish. Ile el:validly dittaglit
that 4 11111 the visa of the IWCWI'I (1011“111113011 of !trivet to .1 sant,
twit panto., Orange aid iumi. In the execteien of :whom
duty, they *lttihad tans neither to the right nor lei, but by prompt
and visorour cuppresa the evil 1111:!!ItWergf it appeared.
Teat they bad crawl well hi punishing to the unmet extent sit the
law Air. Ifughes, Ire wes not there to deny, but he notch ques-
tioned the patience of diintiaaing, without an answer, a emotion
flacon in, wateli, in Ina vice Of it, might, it acted upon, hare sup.
prated by peareable means, the exisfimee of a Larks* association.
Wenders were ordered to withdraw.
Air. I'I.ZINKETT roae. Ile said be wan not 'tilling that this
questdia ahould be disposed of, without offering to she noose a
veer few ohasintations. Ile admitted that lie was. nun no well
/WW4•0111•41 with the duties of Purliainent as the Noble Lord, or
his Hoe. and Jo-anted friend, but it did seem to hint that there
toes soutednag uhustial in owning fur a corrempondence between
the 40Vet214•14 16 country and soy individual, foe the (Annear of
*vita vede.her sonteteing might not be discovered in that turret-
pleedooee to found a t hero against the government. Ile beggutl
to tapped' to the Noble feed, wlaellier, is all that he ha
:tate& Once was any rattunal pound fix instituting such MI inquiry.
lie called fee as coati hence in the government ui Ireland. hat he
must kw his hiontile lestitoody to the ralutinistretioo of the Noble
lard at Ilea head of that government: ail anxiety more intense,
a peraeverauce more saunas in entleavauting to find Ade:cuss fur
the exercise of mercy. the brightest plerogative of parser. it was
-rid imp.aisible for imaginution h. ',mune.... (Hem.) Tile per-
-- whom alhisico was made by Ilse Noble food was omticzeil
- evidence, sad on the luktt cons.aezation, benne an

impartial jury, as a principal mover of sedition. A person oboe-
quainted watt the strut! Of I relnad cannot fancy the degree of nos.
chief that an bumble individual like Ilughtii may achieve in the
dissearinatien of disloyalty. To know the evil within his grasp, it
Was necessary to be acquainted with the system and the manner in
which the association wrought. He had lung been employed in
undermining the principles and destroying the religion of the lower
orders of Dubbin Ile was the MOM active dispenser of secret
oaths, the organ "AA' of that asoiciation of persons, all avowing
wild:and chimerical, and hopeless schemes, bat not the less pyritic
eious, or the less necessary to be checked. The guilt of that man
was established on the clearest testimony ; and alter that was done,
'an application was made to the Lewd Lieutenant,—he was then
taking the statement of the Noble Lord opposite' —all application
was mode, from a gentleman who was counted fir the prisoner,
stating that he was aeithorisai by the whole body of conspirators to
declare that they were ready to surrender. Very much for the
safety of the counsel for the prisoner, he failed to establish
his credentials. (Vivo mode was there, then. through auch a
channel, of opening up a negotiation? But lie did happen to
know that great inconvenience had formerly arisen to the Govern-
ment by entertaining negotiations on similar subjects with the
mine individual. lie could have wished that the Noble Lord who
wag in possession of Ole correspondence, had gone a little more
minutely into it, instead of moth:sing I self to it in general terms.
The Hon. and Learned Gentkinsii contended that there was no
qualification annexed ; what then was to prevent the deluded, and
Gait wauld appear reftirtned, people from coming forward and
taking the oath of allegiance ? Hut what was the condition ? If
you promise to do so and so, why then we will give our words not
to join again in the deeds of this usociation. Ile concurred with
the Honourahle and Learned Gentlentan, that in this case it was no
excuse AT tither side, to talk of a defensive system ; resistance to the
laws of the country must be put duwu by law, and Dot by lawless
procedure.
111r.,11. M.IRTIN observed, that the Proclamation of amnesty
hail, in 111'2104. been productive of great benefit in Galway.
Lord ALT11()1111 replied, and in the ammo( Isle reply read
the curers. pondence. Ile begged to ask could the truth of those
lettembe.deniel ? If they could not, it was clear there was some-
thing wrong which was sought to be concealed. Ile never felt so
lame and miserable a defence on the part of Government, as that
made by the Right lion. the Attorney-General for Ireland.
Alf. C. H. IIUTCIIINSON thanked his Noble Friend for the
able notice which be took of this subject, so extremely important
to Ireland, and the best intatats of this empiro. Ile felt himself
In • eery painful situation on this subject; but he would not dis-
charge his duty if he voted in this case with his Noble Friend.
No party feelings could induce him to vote contra y to his judgment,
I although he owned he was sadly disappointed with the Government
of the Alarquia Wellesley ; he expected much froto him, and he
must say, with regret, but little was done. For that little, how-
ever, he was gratefuL It was his duty not to suffer • false Unreels.
Ann to go abroad with respect to the bids Government; he be-
tiered the Hibbonuiten were a defensive society against an Orange
society ; but lie knew enough of his tountrymen to say that the
Government should not capitulate with either faction : one of the
leaders of the Ribbon-men was found guilty of the charge imputed
to him; and though he (Mr. Iltochinami) wished fur amnesty
and conciliation as die system for governing Ireland, but he
thought, that to eusod it under a threat, or upon other tenths, would
be such a wrong ass e.:ver before had been done, even at the time of
Lae wanks's administration. lie felt his Noble Friend meant
well by this motion, hut at the same time, as he was confident the
Government were attentir.•ly puniaing measure' to improve the con-
dinar' of Ireland, it would be his painful duty to divide against his
Noble. Friend if he pressed his motion to a division. The Irish
Illoverninent had a difficult duty to discharge, and he was nut iu-
dined to accuse them, when be believed they bad acted in the best
manner under the very peculiar circumstances of die country.
(lieu, hear.)
Mr. l'EElo said it was rather unusual, after what was considered
the ckising speech of the Noble Lord, to enter into a fresh debate ;
hut as the Hon. Member for Shrewsbury had drawn some unfair
inferences from what he termed the silence of !Hilliness, he begged
to make a fiw observations. Ile (Mr. Peel) thought the Home
would agree with hint, that no case had been made out for the pro-
durion of the repent called for, and that the liovernment of /fe-
lons' was Nile, justified in the coulee which they adopted. If they
had extended mercy to Hughes, in his opinion they would have
neglected what was clearly and imperatively their duty. The Noble
Lord had read several letters upon the subject, but he had omitted
to state one of a most important r.attite, and bearing particularly
en the question now before them.—( Lord Althorp across the table
said, he read all the letters put into bis possession.' It might be
so, hut that only showed the incompletenesa of the Noble Lord's
infortnietion, and the impossibility which existed for him to make
out any fair cue of complaint. If the /louse consined to receive
or Eaton to tlw complaints of persons who errs convicted, and the
statements of counsel who unsuccessfully defended than, they
might depend upon it that every person convicted in the criminal
Coons of itelshti would come to this flame and request a renewed
Investigation of their cases. And was the !louse to lend its sanc-
tion to such an unheard-of and monstrous nuisance P There was
in important letter to be noticed, of which the Noble Lord said due
knew nothing, and shit was from a Catholic gentleman of the name
Mr. leitie Plunket, who. of his own accord, saw Hughes in prison,
and there held sonic conversation with hint, the result of which was
a voluntary promise dim if Hughes nude full disclosures and
would lend his aid to break up the combination which heoripsiined,
that he (Mr. Munket) would solicit • mitigation of his onsusace,
which the letter of 3lr. l'lun'eet concluded by requesting that
Hughes might at all events he kept in Kilmainham until the con-
vict ships were ready to sail from Cork in the ensuing April. If,
however, the Government held mitigated the sentence, if they had
listened to the communications, if they had delayed to inflict the
speedy puniahoter.t of the law upon such an offender, the worst
consequences must have followed. Inc deluded victims of Ilugbea
woult consider themselves as if entitled to pardon, and they
woulo certainly argue from his pardon, or the remission of his
sentence, a degree of weakness and vaculinion on the part of the
Irish Government which wen of all other things to be avoided.
Every man knowing the local state of Ireland, must know what
was meant by those Mlles to give up arms, of which they had heard
to-night. l'erltaps they would give up ten old barrels without
stocks, and ten stocks witioutt barrels, taken out of some bog,
where they might have uselessly lain for years. It was idle to talk
of entering into conditions upon such terms. This 3lr. l'lunket
offered to travel with Hughes through those pans of the country
which he had contaminated, to induce the people to breathe up •
more widempread system of combination; and after that Hughes
was to be elevated into the importance of holding communications
with the Lied Lieutenant of Ireland. Such a thing was not to be
endured; and so much for the propmition of Mr. l'lunket. Hut
then they were asked to look to the leiter of Mr. Leslie in which
it was stated that these people entertained no views hostile to his
(luscious Majesty, nor to the person or Government of Marquis
ll'ellesley, whilaa at the same time they were plundering the
country and encouraging illegal combinations. (Cries of " Hear !")
l'o encourage any communications between the Government and
such offenders would be highly denigatory to the character of the
Irish (iovermitent. 3lr. Leslie, in the simplicity of his heart,
thought those persons were innocent, while at the {AMC moment
the leading incendiary of the Hihbonnsen was under sentence time
violating the laws iif his country. Was such the time to enter
into a detail of cirri:instances between Iltioltes and the Marquis
fl ellesley ? lie was satisfied that the Hutto., under such eircutti-
stances, would never consent to adopt the motion of the Noble
Lord.

Strangers were then orde►etl to withdraw ; but we understand
no division took place, and that the motion of Lord Althurp was
negatived without a division,

LAW EXPENSES-IRELAND.

Mr. MARTIN obtained leave to bring in a Bill to prevent un-
necessary expenses is the pmserution of actions of law in lrelaial.
BEER AND MALT.

Mr. MARERLY Ziel";;;;;;Kaillkternil his motion on the
subject of the duties un beer and malt, and the mode of their col-
lection to this day, in comtequenee of the indisposition of the
Right lienourable the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Ile was not
inclined to press it now, if any assurance were given him that he
could bring it on on Monday next- or any other day.
The t:IIA NI:ELIA /R of the EXCIIEQUEIL in reply. stated
that as far as depended on himself, be would allow the Honour-
able Member precedence oat "Ilontlay, if he (Ale. 3leberly) were
determined miming the subject on. It was his (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer's) intention an Friday, but on Friday week rather*
to submit a proposition on Use sante sulfite. (Bear, hear )
Mr. MA BE ItlrY—Then I'll certainty postpone my motion till
1 hear the proposition of the Right lion. Una.
111A3IL LAWS.
Mr. S. WORTLEY, in moving the Order of the Day for the
second reading of the Game laws amendment Bill, said, that lie
would not occupy the tune of the House by entering into any de-
tails, as the Bill was already a suliicier.t time before the House.
Ile intended in the Committee, if the Bill should reach that
stage. to introduce some words for the better securing the right of
the ('*own, as he heard some doubts expressed that it sea nut
Oriently pvreefed.
Sir E1,1.1:Y opposed the second reading of the
as wer.reresary and injurious. Ile could imagine as gool ground
tor sotroducing a new Bill, either that an existing law wits OellTtle•
rve or iestidicient foe Its original purpose; but the existing
I iame laws were In neither of theme sboations. When all great
changes were called for—when the people. felt any laws aggrieve
than, they poured petition., into tie Mouse on the subject at Re-
form, Catholic EllettleirttiOn• and the Poor laws; upon'
tile subject of the tiante laws. three was scarcely a single potinon.
itch the Honourable Gentleman who in zealously suppotted the
Bid, think Mat it' airried it would produce any thin like general
satistactiou or that if occe- carried, it would ever be repealed ? 1
True, they might pass this Bill—they might pass an Act ;61
;noted the property in game, but how, in amnion sense, cowed
they give any man a property in &Mandl defying bunion control ?
Tani might as well pass an Act to have two wuodeocks each a-day,
to be hied at the will and caprice of the property itself (laughterpoid
without the knowledge, soul therefore he presumed without the eon-
' currence of the Ernwu. The Scotch Game laws might answer very
well in an open country ,toueh of which wns wild and waste,- but Ina
country so subdivided as England, the same wyetent could not by
an,: means apply. In fact, utiles, the existing name Laws were
preserved in Englanebno man could be secure of the game on his own
property. The argument urged in favour of the isle of game, was to
enable monied oven who had not land to have game, and they
would have it. Ile adetti:ted that ; but still be did not think that
every 0.. e was to be allowed to purchase game without Aeolic con.
trt. Let the moo led men buy land—let them have its conveni-
encos with Its inconvenieneaw—let them have game, and the
lours rate, and the taxes. (Hear, hear, hear.) It was said this Bill
would prevent poaching in the day time, lint did any one think it
wmuld proven t the use of the snares anal the guns?—that thit
poacher who stole the liens from naecs of the peasant, would all at
once become so morabas not to poach ? let the contrary, once to-
lerate the wile of gamy, and the preacher would be more actively
employed, IWebthile would have a gres'er chance of escape flan
detc6nou. The rosu!t of this Bill wor'd be an increase of litiga-

•
don, and a source of peat only to the attorneys. lied not Eng-
land risen to the highest pinnacle of glory with the game laws ?
(Shout,' of laughter.) The game 1111'1 secured the residence of the
country gentlemen on their esuites, in its if a great advantage; and
if thi were rcpaded, ninny would nut wily leave them, but the
cotton-, altogether. He called upon the House not to !ate] to
theory and fake philanthropy, about what he would again repeat
could only be profitable to the privily'. and the attorney. Ile
should therefore more that this Bill be read a second time this
day nix months.
Sir. W. PEEL would not envoy much of the time of the
Howie, an lie hid fomierly expressed his opinion on thin .uhject,
and which had since *offered no change. Ile wan astonished to
hind hi. Ilt:t•ite toratt a retiprdemrineienret , (Mr. S. Wortley), who was in
w l
to IM
as 'ii attempt, both branch and 1110LIOS4:12Tr
i h in e
ic instance,
of this
country. It was said this bill would put an end to poaching; he
up tn
was ale contrary opinion, for so hung Ys there was genie there
would be pose.hers--sod so long as there wan property there would
be thieves. Somegentlemen said, they had rather there was no game,
than that the wanes of bloodshed and misery growing out of the
game laws should he continued. (Hear.) But when the poacher's
occupation was gone, did lientlenirn think he would all at once
become a mural man and a useful member of society ? It was
alno said that one-fourth of the committala ill our jails was oeca-
atoned by the game laws; but once abolish them. and the com-
mittals would be increased to half. LW what they might, poul-
terers would still buy front the poachers; and to legalise its sale,
would produce more quarrels than had taken plabe tinder the ta-
inting system. Ilk great objection to the proposed bill was,that it
would do away the noble spurt of fox-hunting; and once let a no-
tion prevail that the fox was rot private property, and then he was
sure they would not have one to hunt. If gentlemen, by the sale
of game, wished to amvert pheasants and toles into shillings yid
pence, he hoped they would be disappointed. Every thing should
be done to encourage the residence of the );entry. Look at the ex.
ample of Ireland--look at her situation, without it resident gentry,
and such what would be the situation of this country, if the game
laws were repealed. It was said that this bill was only an experi-
, went—that the old laws would be revived if the bill did not prove
useful. lint mice pass it, and you might as well make an experi-
ment to call the dead front their graves, as to call back the old
system of the thane Laws. Ile hoped, that after this evening they
would never more hear of this bill.

I Mr. ROSS attributed much of the safety of England to the
superintendence of the gentry over the humbler classes of meetly.;
he thought they were entitled to serge privileges for their unpaid
services to the State; but still, UM thought the proposed Bill
would do good--would prevent contefition—would knit the peasant
and the gentleman more closely together, it would have his 'rapport.
It was said that no petitions were presented against the (lame
Laws ; but would it, he asked, be argued from that, that the tire-
send system of Game Laws was good, or that the poorer classes
were contented with it ? (Hear, bar.) Unfortunately it was toe
true that they disliked it, and that the pnachee like the smuggler,
was generally considered as not guilty of any moral offence. Would
it not then be wise to alter such a system? and if so, would it not be
equally wise to alter it without delay ? The question was nut now
whether game was to be sold or not; bet whether they would le-
galize the sale of that, which was now sold without time licence of
the law. (Hear, hear.) e had looked into documents to show
lie
Meanie of game, and he found its increase was extremely rapid,
despite the existence the Dame Laws. lit one case ha found the
sale to be on one day a hundred brace of birds ; on another one
hundred and thirty-live ; another, two hundred and twenty.
eight ; another, one hundred and one, and so on with all the
other poulterers, in fact, the sal. of geoid was enormous,
and the system of supplying it extended alike to every
part of the country. Ile was one of the Committee on the Dame
Laws last year, and in that Committee Neveml of the witnesses
stated them lobe laws "written in blood." The House must be
aware that money will procure what luxury desires; and that ono.
Hied teen, if fond of game, would procure what they esteem a lux-
ury, in spite of any legislation to prevent than. One measure
which was introduced to improve these laws had been found inope-
rative ; and the Committee of last year vine so satisfied of that
fact, that they strenuously recommended a speedy and more ef.
knit its alteration. If by such an alteration advantage could be
secured, and evils avoided, no one could deny the obligation they
were under of making alterations. The primary principle: of all
legislation was to rule by reason, and nut by violence (Hear, hear.;
—to manage ant conciliate the temper of time people, not to wound
or exasperate It. What a state of society must that be, in which
the Magistrate and the people are kept in conflict by the laws—
when there is nothing but a constant struggle between them,
and when the victory on tidier side can be but one of
idle . joy or sheeny sulleunces. (Ilea, hear, hear.) Tile a-
unty of the Genie Laws was each, that jurors were often
unwilling to convict; and the accused in their defence appealed
rather to the feelings and the passions than to the reason of those
to whom they addressed Illelllieltal. These were dangers which
most men saw—which all men, upon seeing, must wish to be
avoided. The number of committals under these laws wen by far
greater than for all other offences put together; and yet much fewer
were convicted of poaching than for almost any other oltZnee; and
that he attributed, is a great degree, to the generally prevailing
notion that poaching was not a neural offence. No class of persons
should be excluded from purchasing what their means enable than
to purchase i for the very prohibition renders the excluded article
the more )11,12E11, and induced the stronger desire to become pos. I
soared of it. All Intrietiowee or rather sestrictioes generally, were
incentives to cease, which it 'Amid be the object a every one to
diminish. It was the linty of the House, acting on a liberal and
equitable polirys W acute the Tod affections of the people, and to
nourish and foster every kie ly disposition between them And
those above them; and contribute, by the improvenwnt of the i
Laws, to the general comfort and advantage. lie did not be-
lieve there would be any ground foe the apprehension that the
legalisation of the sale of guam would lead to a dirainuttou of ita
quantity. If he looked at France, where the Salle protections'
did net mxist, he saw a country in which there was the greatest abun.
dance of game, nor did it appear in the case of Sao:bend that the''
laws were insufficient to preserve the game. With regard to the
sueposed Increase of poachers which would be produced by this
Bill, it was his °pinkie that all those who were unasionally guilty
of poaching. by tier the greeter proper ' of offenders would be
driven out of the market by the fair dealer He should therefore,
support the Bill, which had no tendency, he conceived, to it:fringe'
either on the amusements or privileges of the country gentlemen.
Mr. J. J. LOCK H A ItT said he heard more objeceitms to the
game laws in that Melee than out of it, and he believed they were
represented as much more unpopular than they really were. (Hear,
hear, hear.) It was natural they always should be unpopular with
poachers (Hear, hear, hear), but this Bill would lie unpopular
with every clam of preens, with some because it tack away their
rights, (Hear, hear), and with others because it contained- more
tyrannical and unoonstitutional principles than he had ever seen in
a Bill relating to that subject. The first clause was a general act of
disiiancleisement. (hear, hese.) lie maintained it was so. because
it swept away all qualifications. (Hear, hear.) Ile conteneed
that those who possessed them ought not to he called upon to sur-
render them without sonic countervailing advantage. They were
valuaLle in themselves, and of importance to the country as a cheap
incentive to individuals in hurubler walks of life to persevere in the
paths of honesty and industry. (Hear.) The next clause went to
make game 1 y. Now in his opinion, if any one was entitled
to be consider the proprietor of the game, it was the occupier of
the land, who at least fed it as long as it remained with him. But
the Bill did not vest the teeerty in the occupier of the soil.
Mr. S. IVORTL,EY across the table' Certainly not.
I
Mr. J. J. LOCI; I IA T. Then what, he asked, became of the
Hon. Clent.'s liberality Ile gave the property not to hint whose
land the game depredated,but to him to whom it happened to belong
in fee.singge or as a life-mime. The occupier of the land, however,
had no power by the Bill to appoint a gamekeeper. Not even the
owner in feeeeniple had this right, unless he was one of those over-
grown aristocratic persons who possessed a certain number of acres,
not yet fixed contiguous to each other. Those were the only per-
sons entitled to preserve game, and not even they if they happened
to be ladies. (Ilea.) Hut when any odious task was to be per-
fenred —if any tradesman channel to commit a treepaae, the occupier
of the land, theme!' he might not preserve the game, was authoneed
to apprehend the trespasser, and carry hint, like a felon, before a
Magistrate, for sporting openly with a gun on land which he was
Wariled to leave. This was another instace of the liberality of the
lion. 31eniber for Yorkshire. A man who wandered out of his
path, while epursinge Ainslie li&reind and 'hewed, like a loon,
before a Magistrate, entice thhelPTIZ thoeigif at present, if i person'
wrongly suspected of felony killed another, who, without warrant,
attempted to arrest hint, he was only guilty of inamilau,ghter. ( Hear.)
He (Mr. 1..) did nor believe that the preservation of game was the
real object of the Bill. Ile suspected that amble 'Mister design lay
hidden behind it. IYhy, indeed, being in a Bill to preserve game,
when, in his own reaallection, its iatinhers had Increased tentbW ?
He believed the Hill • as an attempt to put down poaching, but it
was nut likely to succeed, except with respect to a few clauses,
which were worthy of the attention of the House. If the game laws
were onpopular by reason of the present (justifications, he would
advise that they should be enlarged. Why *herald tiny net extend
them to ofliene of the army above a certain rank, to the leer, to the
clergy, anal to heads of corporations. Qualification.' might also
be reguleted by the assesaral taxes. There was another clause
most objectionaLle, that which prohibited any individuel but a
gamekeeper from having marts in his pnescesrao. Alter this Bill
paused, nu into would be met liberty to destroy his own ref:hits. If
it was said that the existence of game created the crime of poach-
ing,
and that the came laws touted to demoralize the people. Lc
undenetood the argument, and when it was brought fairly forward
he should be prepared to meet it. In his opinion. no case had
been made out it this Dill. The English public were entitled to
enjoy as much apertieg and aniusentent as possible. 'lie moment
the sordid principle was introduced of reg.erding genie 115 a %frame
of profit, a emeespontlieg degree of boarish mediums and initespi.
Mlity would Mika. The sportsman WI It'll be liable to be 'seized
on every petty trespass, have his gun broken, aid his pertain treated
as a felon, or be would perhaps suZier front the more denery quill
of the attorney after his return home. Satisfied that the Bill would
spread litigation, and diffuse discontent amongst all classes of the
population, he should Tote against its further progress.
- .31r. Seteretety PEEL wan of opinion that there could be no
doubt that time genie laws, in their prevent state, were a great evil
(cheers), end he felt then foe inclined to give his support to the
Bill, with sonic modification of its clauses (cheers), as he was
9uito ailed: ref of the justice of its principle. (('heer%) The
honourable and lefaseed I leteliewan who hod last spoken had nI.E.
changed his meteors with respect to the quoit ion of qualitleations.
It war: clear, that if the llonuttrable and Leaned tientfeman had
to discuss the question en its merits, that lie would fine it imp's.
sible to extend the existence of the present mode of qualification.
' The Honourable and Learned Dere!emart contended against the
trunnion of what he called the vested rights of the persons gush.
led ; and he proposed, if he extended the qualiticauon, to reserve
it for rank, senesce, and property. The torment llama, differed in
every respect front the "Item of the Honourable and Learnee.
Gentleman. A Doctor of Divinity hail no qttalitication at present.
He WM only qindilied to rocrate spocutntso, not to spurt himself. '

• ..•
(A laugh.) Ile was absolutely excluded in his own person ; but
his eldest sun, who might inherit rone of his learning or talents,
was to enjoy the pleaspre of lobe:ovine shooting. (A laugh.) Was
this, the nude in which the Honourable and Learned Gentleman
wished to see the qualification extended to science I' (Cheers and
laughter.) A grin, the son of a landuwiier of 20,04101. a year was
~ qualified. But was it not notorious that they rill killed game?
Vet not one of them was qualified. (Cheers.) What was the eon.
dition in which this anomaly placed the father' He, acting as a I
Magistrate, had to sentence others to punishment for violauvts of
these laws, while his own eons were every day engaged in the coot.
mission of the saute offences. (Cbeera.) li'as it possible, then.
to resist a proposal fur ainerding the present absurd system of
qualification? la other parts of the kingdom there were
(different modes. In Ireland the possession of 10,0001. personal
property constituted a qualification, and in Scotland any person
might sport, with the itenniseion of the land-owner. It, toevetore,
the House referred to the customs of other countries, not alien in
their manner. and institutions, the best reason would be seen for an
amendment of the principle of glialifiCatioll. The more he (Mr.
Peel) reflected on the sale of game, the more thoroughly he
was coarinced that the interest of the game preserver and the oeace
of society required the adoption of the principle. (Ilene, hear.)
It would remove, in point of law, a prohibition which, in point of
filet, had lone ceased to exist. Since the union with Scotland and
Ireland, Parliament had invited, nay compelled the residence of
many Peers and Gentlemen from those countries in this metropolis,
who, according to law, were not entitied to possess game. If the
law was enforced rigorously, no foreign Ambasaauor, no Prince of
the blood even, unless he was a land-owner, was qualified to pos.
sits game. (Hear, hear.) Was it not notorious that the law as
it stool on the Statute-book was violated and evaded every day?
It was abrogated by public opinion, and as a nullified and despised
law, remained known to us ouly as a great positive evil t cheers). it
was roc moony, notoriously.aod systematically violated, and by chore
too whose duty it was to enforce the other laws of the land. ((pear.)
After sitting all the morning to administer the laws to the
poor, he sat down at six or seven in the afternoon to set the example
of violating them himself. (('heers.) The prohibition of the sali
of game saa nugatory. In practice and opinion it wee already re.
pealed. It woo alleged that the evidence given before the ('out.
mutter poweedeel from a set of interested poulterers, and was un-
worthy of belief. Yet could there be any doubt in fact that the
sale of game was as open and public as that of any other article ?
(Hear, heat). It was said that when the witnesses unie to be ex-
amined on oath before the Lords, they would tell a differesit Mort.
With a view to arrive at some knowledge of the truth of their en-
demic by other means, he had selected four or five towns for the
purpose of obtaining returns of the number et convictions within
the last five years. Ile had chosen places notorious for their hoapi•
rainy. If tie Representatives of any of these toW:!A would rise and
deny that game was commonly sold there, his (Mr. le'ti) mouth
would be closed. The Ant town front which he had obtained a re-
turn was Bristol, a city in which every one who had passed through
it knew well game was publicly exhibited, yet fur the last five years
no person had been convicted of selling or purchasing game.
(flow, hear, hear.) Indeed he saw the lion. Member for that city
Smiled at the idea. The next return was (Torn Livapocl, where
also for the last five years no perso:m had been convicted. (Hear.)
The next was Mancheiter, where there had beets four c :rotenone,
three in 11121 and one in Ilt2 ; all for selling, not purchasing
game. (Hear, hear.) From Glasgow he had received for IlbUswer.
that for the last five) can they haul not been called upon to enforce
the game laws in any one instance. (Hear, hear.) The answer
added, that where an appeal was made to those laws, it was usually
belose the Justices of the Peace in the country. (A laugh.) Now
It was clear that the ofience of purchaeinggame would naturally fail
in suck towns us these ; yet there had been only four convictions
within the last five years. The legal prohibition was of no effect.
Ile was persuaded that the legalised sale of game would be desira-
ble even for the preserver. Two motives operated on the poacher viz.
the pleasure of the sport, and the hope of gain. The first heal:and
In common with every other sportsman. It was impossible to re.
move that motive as far as it operated, but the greater part of the
poachers were led to the practice by the hope of gain alone. At
present they had the market exclusively, but if the fair dealer was
allowed to compete with them, the consequence was, that the pro-
fits of the poacher would he so diminished that his trade would not
be worth following. As one instance of the absurd consequences of
the present syste in of game lawn, he (Mr. P.) would Wiellti3fl that
, he hod seen collected in one room upwards of one thousand phea-
sanoi, which the family knew not how to dispose of. All
I their friends were saturated with game. If this surplus
could 1114 its way into the general markets the trade of the
poacher would be destroyed. In the case of rabbits or salmon,
would the exte.sion of any similar system of law prevent thou
from being saleable in the market ? Would not the effect rather
be to throe the mune:poly .of supply into the hands of the ill. gal
drakes ? (Hear, hear.) The lion. Baronet (Sir J. Shelley) rind
argued that airy man of propeny might qualify himself by the
purchase of land, and that till then he was not entitld to the right
of spurting. %Vino would that Hon. Baronet say if he were mid
that lie heed ro right to cat salmon, because lie possessed ro river ;
or to turtle, because he was not the proprietor of a it'ust India
island ? (Cheers.) On the principle of the Gurne Laws, certainly
no persoo had a right to enjoy either the one or the other but the
owner of the land or water in which it was bred or caught.
(I'licers.) Halt a ocreury ago deer stealing was a prevalent offence.
At that period the sale and exposure of venison were both punish.
able. '1 he law was altered, and the ceruszquence of alluwirg vent.
bun to be: said was not that tile deer-stealer supplied the market,
but that it was united to the foie dealer. lie now sent his venison
regularly to market, and undersold the offender,' alto was, of
course, driven from his unlae Oil traffic. Ile (Mr. I'.) hod no
doubt that the legalieuiun of the sale of %anise') was the mein
CAM of teskiug away Cite monitor ty of the illegal dealer. Bat it
WAS said ey the Honourable and Learned Member (dlr. Lock-
hart), •• See the consequence of passing this Bill. A man
nay plant two acres with corn mei seduce away all his
neighbour's pheasants. Ile (ale. Peel) would ask that
Honourable and Learned Member, why might not this man,
ionise the present perfect system. seduce away his ncieh, butte's
pheasants now, and employ 'qualified man to kill them? (Cheers.)
There was no check ear that would not exist then. But the lion.
and Learned Gentlemen had adverted strongly to the great injur"
tire of allowing the small occupier to kill game bred on the land ,
of his rich neighbour. Surely, if considerations of rigid justice
were to govern their deliberations, it was more just that the small
occupier should kill a few of his rich neighbours pheasants, than'.
that they should destroy his crop. (('heirs.) He (31r. P.) be-1
lieved that the natural operation of the Bill would he to induce a
compromise between the parties. Both rich and poor would find
it their common interest to agree. (Inc of the most forcible argu.
rents against the measure was, that in allowing the sale of game,
the public beet the chief means of convicting the poacher. Clauses
might be devised to meet this objection, and compel the possesecr
of game here, as in Ireland, to prove how it came into his pootees.
'turn. On reference to the returns front Sussex, Norfolk, Surrey,
and Borseishire, he found that not many persons were convicted of
Inning game in their possession unlawfully. The greatest moldier
of conviction* was for boing out at night, or for beirg seen in the
act of deetroying or beating game. He confessed that if he wan
satisfied that the present system worked well, he would oppose
any speculative improvement; but when he looked at the commit-
ments during the last six or seven years—when he saw that between
It ;end 9,1100 persons had been convicud, at the rate of about 1,201)
toe ear, lie felt that it was neither prudent, as tar as the interest of
society in general was concerned, nor narrowing it to the interest of
the game preservers to
.particular, desirable for them that the pre.
scot system should continue. The only cottree that remained was,
either to increase die penaltiee, or have recourse to some other plan
for dim it•ishing the comilisteion of the offences. The first alterne-
tine had been tried, and it heel been found unsuccessful. It re-
unedited for theta only to enable the le,-al dealer to enter into com-
petition with the poacher, and destroy Ins trade. fie should there.
time certainly eulgiort the second reading of the Bill. As to the
change in the qualification proposed by the Bill, he had no objec-
tiou to cad in such a system as the lion. flentleman (Mr. Stuart
Wortley) propowd. That result would however 1.; best attained
by a gradual abandonment of the present system. The Hight
Hon. Gentleman concluded by repenting, that he approved of the
principle of the Bill, anal he had therefore no hesitation in voting
for its second reading,. kilos leg that its drones nebilitual of altera-
tion and modification in the Committee. (('heers.)
Mr. 14lBLRY C 4 H..BOKNE: opposed the Bill. It was impoi.l-
.it,le, in his opinion, that the fair dealer could enter into commit-
nen with the poacher. Ile had, by the suppression of a gang in
' his county (Norfolk). arrived at a knowledge of the priers of
game, as sold by poachers. Ile found that a hare was sold fir two
shillings ; a pheasant for one shilling; and a partridge for six-
pence. an could never be raised at that rote beeides, no ex-
pectation could he more )(moodiest' thin heat of reclaiming the
poachers. It was wrongly 'opposed that they stole gams Isexamie
they coesideredit as
.fi'rtr waterer. That this win not the ease was
clearly proved by the fact, that robbing hen MOMS was infinitely
more c 1111 l nom thon lunching. In France, except in the Royal
l"hate's, there was little game. No property ass more liable to
daily and nightly depredations than warrens. The Hon. Me fiber,
who spoke in a tone nearly inaudible in the gallery, trade some fur- ,
ther observations against the Bill.

Mr. It. BEN SET said he west or.e of those who felt such a
disgust for the Inutte Laws, re they stood at rreser.t, that lie was
most anxious for their yen oval, and he would glanly support the
bill at present before the !louse. though, perhaps, it wo:ild on trial
be found far f penuet. Of this all were certain, that the
severities of the (fame fans, as exercised against poachers, were
fistula to he utterly inadequate fur the purrses in view. There was
I not a man in I;egland who was not fully convinced of the inefficacy
of these laws. It was to be also considered that these (tame
Laws were f lIC% of the feudal system, when every country k
man was a tyrant, and the laws that might have been adapted to
periods fit for those, were utterly unlit fur the present. It was
vain to talk, but all persona who were able to purchase the
luxuries of life would have than; and it was therefore the bud.
aces of the !louse to enable them to possess those luxuries in a
manner winds would not be destructive to the morals of the people.
Ile could not suppose for a moment that his lion. Friend, the Mem-
ber for Yorkshire. had meant to fill up the blanks of his Bill with
the qualification of SOU acres. lie thought the more proper qualifica-
don would be from.?litoliacrexand thus the right would be extended
to all ',Dimmers of land. Another great defect in the present game
laws was, that the great land.mreer nlore wee interested in the
preservation of game. The fanner had no such interest on the
contrary, it was Isis interest to destroy it. If the present measure
became a law, the quantity of game would ho increased, for the
number of Collllllllltri would be augmented. It Fat with game as
wish every other luxury, when the consumers were ir.creased so was
the article itself. The price of game would be reduced, and every
man would feel it to be his interest to preserve the game of his own
kind. If the sale of game wee legalised, it would give to every
n:an a right to possess it : he would have every facility and no risk.
Thu poacher at present would feel much rather disposed to steal a
pheasant than a fowl. It was easily accounted for, as the former
we. reckoned wild; and consequently he did not look upon it as a
theft. lic would Five the nal his decided support.
. Loyd.3lll.TON was di;pcscd to agree with the Um Mamba who

had jug' sat down, in the feeling of disgust canted by the system e(
the Game Laws ; but that feeling should be waived at present;
and the only object should be to get rid of the evils complained
of. As to the argument, that the country gentlemen would not be
residents if they were not allowed the indulgence of their amuse.
ments' he confessed he had yet to learn what peculiar benefits were
conferred by gentlemen whose only object was the anxious put.
suit of their amusements. He was rather induced to believe that
greater benefits were conferred by the residence of gentlemen of ea
opposite description, and the residence of the former would not he
attended with those benefits to which importance was atteche)• if
the House were to legislate for the purpose of preventing the wee
of game ; of preventing the legality of the manic, it would be
erecting a monument of legislative fully. For hie part, he did rot
wish to legislate upon the subject at ail. He hail no plan to poi.
duce. His object teas to destroy and crush the present system. lie
knew it was usual to dissent merely from the principle of a Bill
upon the second reading ; and its clauses were left fur discussion to
a future occasion ; but he could not mum to the transfer
of the property in game from the lord of the manor to the
person possessing twenty or fifty acres of land. To this trans.
ter he would not assent upon any principle, much lea to the
extent, and subject to the consequences which the Bill before
the House would bring with it. He had heard country geutletiers
called tyrants, and those laws denounced as remnants of the
feedal eysteni ; but, in his opinion the effect of the transfer uould
be to raise up thirty tyrants instead of one. This, he Mimeo, t
would be the cone:it:mince of giving the propene in game to every
person possessing 50 acres. lie was not the eulogist of the libe-
rality of persons having large properties; hut, in his opinion, these
powers would be exercised in a more vexatious and oppressive
niaentr as it regarded the ptiblie, when these powers were lodged
lin the hands of penons possessing small wherein. As he cues.
I sidered this Bill would nut have the effect of preserving or inane.
ing game, and, as it would have the effect of inert:ming pteachers, be
would therefore give it his decided opposition. lie had no plan of
his own to submit ; be rejected every pian, ant: wished to have none
on the subjett.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY was not prepared to go the entire length
of the 11111 before the House. The quantity of game had greatly
increased of late : this he was ready to admit ; game was never
abundant as at present. rm. was said to be owing to putting
down poachers. Teis was not the case. Tbe inereine of the ankle
might, in his opinion, to be a potted fur passing this Bill; and
the increase, if the game were brought to market, would occasion
an increase of purchase a. The ar.iele should be cheap, and its sale
legalized, and then it would be purchaectl. It was with regard to
;wile ask was sill regard to stolen goods, nn person went at first '
to the receiver of stolen you to purchase if he haul an open regular
plow of. market; but, when he was restricted, and had no place of
market, he then had recourse to the receiver. The Hon. Member
for Oxfotel complained of the Bill, as it did not re the pd.
vilege to certain Heeds of Universities, Mayon of Corporations,
and Learned Doctors. But the lion. Member who brought in the
Bill had done more for theme Learned Doctors he had conferral
an obligation upon them for which they would feel more uldiged ;
he hail enabled them lawfully to cat their game, which Orgy could not
do before : this liberty of eatiniethe game would be, If he did not
mistake, more acceptable to t Learned Pocton, than that of
&hooting it. laugh.) This liberty came snore home to them ;it
was with game as it was with smuggling ; when the article could be
Immured for little money, the trade of a poacher would to ha
attractions. Ile win anxious that this, themeardiarreditable statute
in our penal code, should be done away with: by legalising the Isle
of game, and enabling every individual to sell the game of his own
land, we wonlel gee lid of a system, which was one of the greatest
injuries to the honest industry of the population at large. All he
required was a change from the . t system • anything In place
of it must be for the better, lie do:et-ore hoped and trusted the
Bill would pass Its present stage by such a msjority as would
enable its friends to calculate upon Its becoming the law of the
laud.
Mr. S. WORTLEY said if they were to legislate at all, either
upon the law of guns Of any other, they sheukt be guided by site
principle. It had been asked to whom the game was to belong—to
the lord of the maeor or the fanner? or to eche= his object rasa to
exceed the principle of property to game? and therefore it should
belong to aunt body.- lie would give the right of game to the
owner, the occupier of the land; and every privilege in respect to
game should be a matter of bargain between the landlord and the
semeit ; and if the titmice-wished to preserve an inordinate quantity
of game on his lard. lie idioteld make a bargain to that effect with
his tenant, aed should pay fur the feeding uf, and the injure dons
by, the game. lie had been told of the unpopitherky which he
would acquire amenget his constituents by bringing in this Da
lie was not insensible to popularity ; but his rule upon this, 46
well as upon every other occasion, was to do his duty. (Ilur,
fear, hear.) But how do Hunourable klendoes know this Bill
• unpopelar ? The game laws, as they amid to present, were en.
popular to every scan in England. Ifis Chi,-et "MI to give every
man in the kingdom, however peer his state may be, the liberty
of going te 'shoot where he got leave. Anti as to teamed Doctors
and Mayers elluded to, it 'VIA clear that each tray take hie gun and
'boot where he pies•ei ; and lie might Nell or eat his genie, as hs
thought proper. The principle of this Bill was to mite no seated
iutereat from any person; his object woe to give interests. He
wished to give an unfortunate Doctor of Medicine the privileged
shooting, which, though denied to himself, was granted to his eldest
son. Tradesmen from town were, it was said, in the habit of invade
ing property. His wish was to protect property ; and he would not
give any man permission to go upon lands without perm:woe,
anti when warned of, or refused to tell leis name, he Afield be
considered as a treepuestr. It was also asked, why change the
system at all ? It pas sot oomplained of; there was not a single
petition against it. If any Member from this eireurneetwee thew
the conclusion that Iliew laws were popular; he was entirely mis-
taken ; and it was his fault if there was not at least one petition
against it from the county which he Mel the honour to represent.
Ile had told his constituents that petitions were unnecessary, that
the natter was bailee the House. and the attention of Pararoest
was called to it. lie was also risked in the !louse, why he brought
forwatd this measure—not for the preservation of game, for thee
never was such a quantiiy of it as at present :• This he
admitted; but be brought forwatd this Bill from a logged
to the feelings of the country. Ile was himself a game preserver.
lie was glad to see his friesele. and to bare it in his power to afford
them spurt. He acknowledged he preserved game, Ltd it was at. ,
tended with the greatest annoyance t (hear.) a most dreadful acci-
dent led happened upon his own lands, at a brave and gallant
fellow lost his life, in at tenipting to preserve his garne. (Heat.) He
never awoke of a moonlight night in, winter without - feelings, is
re refence to this affeir, not to he described. (lieu.) He wished to
pruerve game, but in such a manner as he was convincer' would be
practicable by carrying the feelings of mankind with them, and
not as at present by having every feeling opposed to them. Ole
wished to get rid„of the monopoly, to give every mei, whether his
situationthatkinliftgamebe ;:
reet I y,the people would prefer what was illegal to whet was legal: when •
a property in game.
such a principle as this was acted upon nature would came lobe nature.
igcbriu or low,
be oo be " obtained to
Theft were, in fact, two modes of procuring game—one legal. the
other illegal. Which was to be preferred ? It had been said by
an Honourable 31ent'kr, that there was something about genie
which could not be. reduced to our ideas of properiy. What, he
would ask, was the case inspecting pigeons? Them true, to &Ilia
teats, wild; and if they went into another man's field, and ate his
corn, if he shot thelli•
that perum was obliged (and this he would
ahem was carrying the ideaof property very for) to pay half a
guinea. It was else the law with regaritto wild ducks: if a perm
went to • decoy turd killed them, they were comitlital as property,
and he was obliged to pay for them. It was s'eo asked what was to
become of a wounded bird, which dropped on another man's
grimed ; when: was that to be ? Ile would mit, where ores it pre-
sent ? The person woutelieg it could not go upon the other man's
ground for it without beicg guilty of a melees& The name
Lion were raid not. to be unpopular. They erne uttiverially
so. They were unpopular to the flamer ; they. were unpn.
polar to the consumer ; they were unpopular to the seller ;
from the risk lie ran, and the danger to which he was exposed; they
were unpopular to all, He bad no objection that country gentle-
men should be protected in the enjoyment of field sports, but if
they could not live in the. country without the ametenentof ruinous,
strict. and oppeeesiye Genie laws, their residence do the country
would be a curse instead of a blessing, end it would be much Let.
ter if they resided elsewhere. (Hear, hear.) lie did net expect
that this Bill would do away with poaching at once, Ile web not
such on Utopian as that lie wee well aware that thieves would
to nee with
bbee mmul
aidewiratlomengathcnhienixoransfetehlii:::ng
oton beeeesrto7ltenbiTeigbeenut he Inved to
the Game haws, lie by aeotal chalice in the system,
to have it in bis penal to say, " What right had this person to take
my teeperty without my consent ? Tide Ise weithl say if the patent
laws wire dere away with, and an open nierket appointed for the
sale. As to the objection of the Noble Lord (Milton), who cried
out, do away with all restrictions whatever, hie advice, if followed,
would multiply poachers, and would not put them 'loan until the
game was totally destroyed. He knew there wee• difficulties in
every Bill of tins description, but he payee' the (louse to allow it
to pass another stage, and he would gladly attend to all the sup
ge Molts chat might be offered for the purpose of diminishing the
evils eo much coutplaincd of, of satisfying the minds of the countey
at large, and of enabling tl:e country gentlemen to preserve their
own game without the reproach of severity.
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the House divided, when
the numbers were—Ayes, 105; Noes, X.—Majority, SI.
JUDGES IN WALES BILL.
Mr. JONES mewed the second reeding of the Judges hi Woke
Bile

Mr. ALLEN opposed the second reading. lle observed. that
the greater was the number of Judges, the greeter was the pnis.
bility that they would be los conversant in their duties. The Pill
ncticetl as a defect, that Judges wets emp:oycd as Counsellors. nnd
is other ways. during the intervals which occurred between their
circuits. Hut it was his opinion, that if they were abstracted font
all pmfewinnal pursuits, they would become ontit Ito therlischatte
of their duties, and thus a much greater evil wetild arise. re .s.;
thought that a plan might be suggested which would meet the dl r. ti
ticulties alluded to in the report of the Committee cf ittai and
and, at the same thne, not call on the greater part of the
communiiy for any furthersaeriticcs. lie would propose that the
Courts of Irestminster Hall 'should be thrown open to the Pnor...
pality of Wales, as they were to the other parts of the nation. and
that all judgments passed in the Principality should be subject to
a similar revision; and he would propose to get rid of 'hook TaPtiri
Ceti: is of Charcery, which were of no -use whatever except fee ir.
junctions and discoveries. lie entr.O.ined cf the time which Tat
untteressarily expended in the Principality Courts, when two days
would general's, suffice to try all the causes. He trusted that the
inhabitants or Wales would be placed on the same footing with
those of this country. At present he would abstain from pewit&
any remarks on the salaries received by the Welsh Judges ; but he
would observe, that if the Bill row pending should pm the two
Houses of Parliament, and be taken tato the legbilat:.ort of the
country, althou„..ll his Majesty's Minister.' might conceive they
were wanting a boon to theinhabitants of the Prinei , the ewe
would be of a very diCi-rct.t nature. It was opbeitalfy suowed

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