The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1822-03-21 00:00:00

IRISH FIVE PER CENT. ACTS,

which having been reed, end the House having so
solved itself into a Committee,

The CHANCELLOR of the Exceeotrott said, that
{iving eurcesefullv proceeded in the great operation
of reducing the English 5 per cents. to ammitimat
a lower rate of itverest, they would leave their work
imperfect unless they adopted r. similar proceeding
will. regard to the Irish s.per cents.; fur which par-
pose it was his iuteution to propose. resolution noir-
ly similar to that which had been adopted iu reference
to the English 5 per cents., and to which he did not
anticipate that there could be any objection. The
resolution which he intended to propose would give
to the holders of the Halt stork the same advantages
which had been gill,' to the Enlist; proprietors, for
it would he extremely hard to press upon them with
greater severity, particularly when it was considered
that the legal rote of interest was higher there than in
this country. The Irish 5 per cents. amount to
about 9.300,000/. exclusive of that part of the
some description of stock which belonged to the
Bank of Ireland. The Resolution would apply
only to that part, the amount of 9,000,0004 he-
bowing to the public. There was also a portion
of 5 per cent. stork, amounting to 2.590,0001. be-
longing to the Hawk of Ireland, which had been
created 'by an advance made by. the Bonk to Go-
vernment, as a consideration for the repassl of their
charter, and which was not redeemable until the •
expiration of the charter. There was alai a still
further sum of 1,250,000 f. in 5 per cent. stock
helongmg to the Bank of Ireland, which wit
redeemable after six month. notice. Notice had
already been given by the Tresouoy to the Di-
rectors of the Bank of Ireland, of the Ova-
tion of Government to redace that stock, and
of the terms on which it was proposed to effect
that operation ; but no answer hod been received
from them on the subject. He was, therefore, only
able 11011/ to p-op ise a Rem:lotion applying to that
;ot of the hash .5 per crnt. stock (amounting to
9.000,0001. as lie had slremly state), which •as tit
the hands of the public. lb. cocciuded bv moving
a Itesolutiou fur the reduction el Me troll
five per cent. annuities, and the cleating of four per
cent. annuities to lieu of the same, in nearly the
triune word, as the Resolution of the ifith February,
relating to the English five ref cents. which
agreed to.
The CHANCELLOR of the Excimon then
said, that, the amount of the Irish five per Crab.
was so much smaller, the number of the holdelv
or that stock was so much less than that of the
English five per cents., and the circumstance of
urea), the whole of the holders residing in Irelaod,
rewired so much less time nictitate foe a sulficiept
pahlicatioa of tba plats of the proposed iedoctilish
that he thought eight, does would be a millirem'
term to allow for the entry of the iiirtmttoiss of those
who alight lie inclined to disecoot, instead of twirl"
days, which had been the tone allowed the holilets
of English itock fur that vomiter. He thee...tote
moved a Resolutioli accordingly ; *lnch bermg

ber.o uqreed 10--
1 he tioorie Irqurned. and air Itefolotion sett
°Wend to be lept.l;ed to.itturto..
C tmmaTcr. tn, suppi V.
The Cii ANCi Ll,oa tti the ExCIifIVER then
mowed the Order of the I.Yav Inr r Committee t•I
; still the Speaker aiing lett the Chia—
Sir .1. Osn,m4 to.r 10 IlitAc itettlto 01 tk
N.tvy Fstilitrates,
Ir. LI. G. ULNNETT tcse and the

A. Estimate' Mantling is * notice in the ;doper
for that evening. he sod his Nun. Friends near
fug, hol•espected that they would be brought on
in the Committee, and h.d therefore come down
inepared.to ,Ivr into the dierinoion of them, but
uoprepared for any diecuenon of the Navy
geminate..
• StrJ.Ossons said, that there were a few votes for
the navy still reumiiiiing to be disposed of, owl lie
Ind understood-on the last night of she Committee
that there world he we objection to proceed with
them on this eveilitig.
Mr, mks said, that he had several statements
to lay before the Committee on the subject of the
Breakwater at Plymouth, the works at Shrew's
ond other plaices—Ole plovers relating to which,
owing to the notice of the Army Estimates. and
the *tint of notice of site Navy Estimates. he had
but brought down with him, end WWI theiefuie whol-
ly in:prepared to go into them.
Sir .1. Omits said, in consequence of what the
Member had stated, he would postpone for
the prevent ihr vote fur the works in the yards ; nod
move a giant of 265,000/. for the purchase of pro-
visions for troops and garrisons 011 foreign stallion',
and for she convict service, and the value of rations
fur troop• to be embarked on board ships of war and

transports.
Mr. Howl said he could have wished to have it
distantly stated what proportion of this grant was required
for provision. for troops is pinkies on foreign stations—
what proportion for the convict service—mad what propor-
boa for 110Jpiembrrked on board ships of war asd
traua-
porta. These particulars were necessary to euable the Com-
mittee to judge of the ieasonabletiess of the vote; and he
therefore hoped that they would be specified in the estimates
aver, (enure year.
The tube was then agreed to.
The of 231,9001. was then voted far the service of the
traeoposa department.
Sie J. OSBORN sad there only now remained the vote for
she warts is the welt to he considered, ah:ch he ander-
otooll dal Hos. Mosher not to be prepared to discuss at
proud.
Mr. HUME said there were several points in that vole
as which some explanation appeared to him to be necessary,
whisk ha mold out well go into without some dominions.
whit* Not **peeling the subject to be brought on that sight
he had MA at hoses.
ARMY ESTIMATES.

Lewd PALM ER6IOAt hen rose to penpese tie dune for
the establishment of the War-office for the esseiag year.
Reductions had been made in the establishment to the mon-
key of persons, and is total amount of 8.0001. The re-
daction would not appear to beso mooch nu comparing the
totals of each year, because • sum of 9001. fur the
reduction of roes had been, through error, twice deducted
la the imamate' of last year. Of the officers reduced in the
amoral of hut year, there was one at a salary 1,200/. ; one
at 1,901111.; two at 8001.; two at 7001.; one at 8001.;
two at 4501.; one at 400/. ; and the others al l..wer salaries.
There was still a large part of the office employed on the
acemets la aaaa which oereeld of course be subject to re-
Jimmies as those accounts were brought to a close. Pursuset
to • seisms of the Treasure, he had formed an arrange..
most of the elite oa • sew scale, which when brought into
fall operation would create a difference of 19,0001. At
meta each clerk, is calculating the period at which be
Weems entitled to as increase of salary, dated from his
fleet entrance into the office ; but in totem the time
would be reckoned doting only from his standing in the
reticular class to which lie belonged. The efeet of
the alteration would be considerably to retard the period
at which each clerk would become entitled to an increase of
John. So that supposing A clerk to enter theta:Bee at a
salary of 90f. • year, and to he promoted its regales grade.
tins through the several classes, he must have served 48
yeses before hi can become mottled to • salary of 900/. He
concluded moviug • grant of 41,11151. 16s. for as anew.
*ace to the %Secretary at War, his Deputy, Clerks, Ike.
Kr. HOME seed, he was glad to hest- the statement of tat
Noble Lord of the reductiom that had bees made. He (M r• 11.)
could only mike them amount to 7,3001. Them was as ad.
&Con of 4,0601. to the amount of the pension foe superan-
nuation. The Noble Lord hail stated the amount of redee.
times Mem 1114 at 19,0001.; but if he looked at the pension
list be would Sad that 17,9101. bed bees added to it in abet
period from the War Office. In stalls', therefore, the amount
of redeletiode, he stated them at more than they proved to
be is aka, a part of the amount being in reality ouly trans-
formed from me head of charge to another. The whole 'eta-
blidemeneeruht to have been reduced much lower. Is 1798,
it was may mow, and in 19013 it was 29,000/. The breach
for amewelerite arrest, made a charge in the present estimate
of 13,0001.; last year it was 17.0001. This system of tritium
stemmas fall into rrrrrrr and letting them remain without
examinatioo so long, that the individuals who coeld give
*se explanation respecting them uric dead, was attended
milk much vexation, incionreidence, and often Injestice to
indieidosile.Theee was no office in the whole range of thepub-
lie service that eas more in need of regulation than the Wee
Office; sad much. of not the greater part of the evil *fate pm.
seat system had lieu crested under the management of the
Noble Lord. The Hoe. Member thee proceeded to observe
tepee the endear the salaries in this office. The Commis-
ci !agony is 1796, when speaking of the inereme
of the salaries in this department, raid, " they found
the Minute to have been granted under particular cir-
cumstances, and they considered them as of a tempo.
racy nature' From that, be contended, it was tvi-
desk the teamed aisle was only impeded to be eon.
eimied daring the extraordinary exertion of the war.
lilt comuidered it as not a little serprising that they had a
Secretary at War at • solar, of 2,4801, sad a Deputy Secre-
te,' at 9,690/.: the Deputy receiving • larger salary than
the priscipal. The lest clerk received 1,4001; In 1796 his
salary was 722/. The system of pluralities that prevailed
tea the office wee 'kW, reprehensible. There wet one clerk
who reserved 1,926/. fur diffeient allowances. There was •
Mr. Edward abet load • salary of 700/. which he
should have supposed ass intended as a payment fur the
whole of his service's ; hut he ale, had Ls addit el allow-
ante of 180/. fur no.okitig out the estimates. There was •
NU. Wilkiumn, alone faulty was 400/. • year; bat who re-
ceived an additional 1001. for misting to unlike out the esti-
mairs, another 1001. fur (doting the army list, mud ad-
dittoesl sums under three other separate heads of al.
lowlier's. There was a Mr. ll'. Merry, junior, who had a
salary of ?NI a year, and au additional allowance of
300/. as Private rib crelary to the Deputy Sectetsry.--
Tkere weir •Ilowsoces of this kind remising through the
"Ere whirl, seeeled up the estimate to the amount at tenet
of 3,8001. As far as lie was able to understand, and lie had
very mood automates ion respecting the business of the office,
he was errofident that fifteen tomes might be found to
do the whole fur 18,0001. The charts of Leber. fur
contingencies he thought kith!). ektral'aratm• When he
toot occasion last year to advert to the number of clerks
at large seltrie• in the higher deportment* of the office,
the Noble teed deelored that not one of them could be
; hut slate that declaration he had reduced several.
Nou he • a, coneraced from tbat fact, that the same reduc.
lieu. Might as well have been•made before, and that if half
4 loon sate clerks were now reduced, the duties of the
nther could be repi•lie well done as at presest. There won
is Mr. Sullies• who hail been only ten years in the office,
:ne! hoed • salary of 1,0001. He should like to hear from
.sac Noble Lord how that gestletnao came to receive so large
4 "Ilary ia so few years. A pt•rsoou who had bees much
learn' as the service bad been ilia liseged. and at the same
• this gentleman was recommended for as Imo-ease of
'2"O/. rear. The principle of mienotion by menially was
"el chick could not be departed from without inconve.
erete, and ought not but upon tome extraordinary ue-
"4"it• He wasild a-k the Noble lord bow be ream-
"l"l le kismet' the introdoction of so many young men
Pe the office, while he had increased his pension lit
He should like au know how messy new bands he
• y.
":"%frai redeeing with one baud, -he heel in-
--etee flesh appeintaseMs with the other. By list return

aftioatalabiiabstraiiltetti 6.6leardoi to be him *eon wise
had sally here moo year in the office. So that they Ural
have beer appoiotod noes the Nimble Lord's system of
reductive so 4 eamosey hod been began.' 'There were se.
wriest junior delete we the peewees list at 14tt/. a year;
why had mot ilrey been pot tato the sltnationa which lied
been filled by fowls eippoistiiients! All vacancies shoeld
be filled up from the siepersonuatio. list. If that plea were
mood no, the Noble Lord would have no occasion to intro.
duce any sew penises for the next ten years. He euncleoled
by proostior against the charge of 43,000!. fur this office,
when is 1801 it wanted to little more thou half that awn.
Lord PALMERSTON said, it was true that in the dis.
erasion ow the strength of the establighineut of his office last
year, be had soled that no further reductions could be made
without inconvenience; and if, is compliance with Uterine-
. 'rations of Gentlemen opposite, he hail since 'educed some
of those vomits who might much more cotiveitieutls fur the
public service have been reialoed, he thought it rattier strange
that the Hooorrable Member should now torn round, and
with his peculiar inconosteney complain of that reduction.
The Hutt. Member complained of his (Lord Palniersiou's)
introducing young clerks into the office notrati of 'hue
whom he had reduced. But that was the only means by
which he bail been enabled to ell; et the reductions
which he had made. He reduced clerks who had bees
employed at larger salaries, sod In order to supply
the assistance required to make up for their removal,
he appointed aill.ein, fewer iu number, and at the
lowest eateries of 901. a ye it. The great complaiot
torsion the office last year was, that the salaries were too
lure.. To lessen the charge, he reduced a number of the
highest salaiies and employed persons at the lowest rate.
and that mode of reduction was now made the subject of
complaint. If the p t establisbownt of the office
were compared with that of 1798, it would be fuuud
that theu the number of persons employed was smeller
toil the snubs higher, and that now the clerks were
more in number hot at lower salaries. The Deputy Sr.
rotary, whose salary had been remarked spent by the
Hon. Member, was formerly Inspector of Army Accunuo,
and hod the supplying the tertian.) of Gibraltar with coals.
The uffirial emoluments derived from those sources amount.
ed to 2.4001. a year, end those he gave up in exchange for
• salary of 2,6001. in an office imposhig on him a greatly in-
creased quantity of business. The Hun. Mendiersaid be had
made inquiries, which rendered him fully acquainted with
the state of the office; and he asserted, opus the know-
ledge he had so acquired, that there was no other public
office that stood so much in need of reformation. He
neither knew, nor wished to keno, the sourer from
which the numerable Member derived his informatiou;
bat ha could mown the House of she fact, that since the
year 1610, as leas than ttl clerks is that office had died,
mostly poem am of pulnioaary complaints, and other dia.
"oder% loreasibt ea by the severity of the duty. Much bad
also bees said by the Hon. Member on the subject of pls.
rolitioa• bet if his informer had told him the troth, be
would haw knows that so far from creating pluralities, he
(Lord Palmorresen) bad always *et his fare against them,
and bad prevented diem is many Osman's. The Hon. Mem•
her had esosplaimed of the allowances to two of the clerks,
for olrawirog lop the estimates. He could assure the Com.
ntit'ee that that was a very laborious daty, which lasted se-
veral soothe; it was performed entirely in extra hours,
with great aosiely and fatigue, after those persons bad gone
. through their dee share of the regular business of the office,
and ou far In,. Wag overpaid, be was sore the Hun. lei m.
her himself would, or making the experiment, rather feel
disposed to ammweat than to reduce it. Mr. Wilkinson's
allarwmace for editing the Army List was quite misunder-
stood by the Honosoble Member. He was allowed to
edit the monthly Army List at his own risk, and to
take whatever emolument he could derive from the pub-
beating, bet be had no official allowance for it. The an-
nual Army List wua Wally different thing. It was mach
larger, sad mere expensive; so mach so, that it would not
pay any bookseller for publishing; and for his trouble
in editing that, 100 L a year was allowed him. The Hon. Gee.
ilesman's sodas of en otionomial reform was truly curious.
He said that 111,0001. was sufficient for the charge of the
esseblioboarreg, mai be would dividethat among 15 persons.
lammed •of tompheyiwg • greater member at smell salaries,
be woad employ Mama at 1,000!. a year each. Mr.
Merry, Jewkw, was employed is Private Secretary to the
*matey at War, as 4 got to the Deputy Secretory, and he
took charge of the whole correspondence respecting the Coat.
poseiossie List. One of the other persons mentioned by the
Hos. Member received a pert of his allowance for taking
charge of the popery for the Depoty-Seeretary.—(Hear,
boar.).--Hie should like to know bow many persons the
Honourable Gentleman required to take rare of bis pa-
pers? The monimilation of the mass of papers that came
iulo the *Ace consumed a great portion of time, and by
intrustiag it to clerk, the time of the Secretary, which
was much more relatable, war saved. The Hon. Member
had eskitel how Mr. Sattivan came to receive so high a salmy.
Ho (Lord Palmerston) had appointed him to the situation he
now held al once; and he would say, with perfect coofidence,
that if the HotroerWe Member inquired into the manner
in which that grutietnan Aid his dury, be would find reason
to approve of bra appointment ; and k be compered the state
of she smuts store that person had been in the office
with their pronto,' (verdant's, he would find that be deserved
the highest credit for bis assiduity. Such was the opinion
that he (Lord Palmenton)entert•ined of the weight of duty
snacking to the oiler which Mr. Sullivan filled, that in the
saw Peale framed on the Treasury Miller, be had recom-
mended the future salary to be increased to 1.200/. ; but the
oddities would mot he received by Mr. Sullivan, but would
be gives to whoever succeeded him. The office nand in the
situation of the Chief Inspector of Army Account% who
formerly received 1,500 f. is.year. He tame now to notice
what bad been said of his introduction of fresh clerks
biome hie plan of reduction had been commeoced. The
fact was, that last year there being a great pressure
of business, he appointed six temporary clerks, with the ex-
press understanding that they were to be reduced when that
pressure sethaided. That, he supposed, had been mistake.
by the Hon. Member for a set of new appointment% while
old ones were cut off. The present charge fur the whole reta-
blishment of the Ohre was under 44,0001.; in 1796 it was
67,000!.; sod in 1797,51,000/. The Mom. Gentletnan well
hoer that large fees ware formerly received, which went as
emoluments to particular indi•ldeale. The Deputy Nears.
tary bad received in one year fees amounting to upwards of
18,0001. which had been since abolished. In 1805, the
cheese for the establishment of 105 persons was 66,0001.;
at present it was 44,0001. for 116 persons; so that not only
was the amount less, but the proportion paid to the
imiimdsale was also diminished. The teurober of the
persons employed and the charge fur the whole este-
blishment had by no means bear augmeated in propor-
tion to the Merto►e of biesinesa its the office. In 1794, the
Number of papers Overd four') the office was 7,207, mid
the number of persons employed was 22; 16'1797, the um-
ber of paper' isoupeal wan 14,253, mud the number of persons
in the oilier was 42; mot in 1821, the number of papers
sett out minortiied to the 792, and the number of roseate
employed to Ise In 1797, the number of accoouts and
docuiscots conuceted in the accounts sent into the office,
which bad to undergo examination, amounted to 1,205,
in 19t0 it was 15,900. So that whether they looked to the
number of paper. sent out, or to the uumher of docioneets
that came into the office, they would find the business to
have •usgmenint in a considerably critter proportion then
either the mouton of prisons employed, or the musict paid
fur the service tof the office The Noble Lord concluded by
defending the uerlahoess of the breath approprintol to the
esamioation of account' in &reser, which had already reeo.
sired to the couutry sums tar exceediug the expeue•in.
(tiered. . _

Colonel DAMS said, the charge of Ids Hon. Friend
against t►e Noble I..ird was hut for bowing aisle reductioas
after he had WWI tory could not be made, but foe his tarh..
one ea so doing, WWIIIII rearatoote until shnolotely driven
to rrtreachoterat. And she proper way of cooolderlse the-
question wan MS to lonic rit t►e cannot of expenditure re-
duced, but so inquire want omega mak be sa„,t, god be
hoped that the wily limit to future redottioss would be the
impw•ibthtr of earryiog thi in further.
Mr. HUME said, the Noble lord had talked of- employ.
in elm kr at 911 J. a 6ear, I 'MACS(' task..., at web notaries u bo
bad bees. adored ; but he *lmola like to Mira bow mart
be bad sow io his office st that ratwaf *May ? He believed
that weir L CM* to .be !wand 41.1t4s Maar 1201: • Trells respect

ki !Er. 4.4.• Oak tie 4
had bens somewhat esinianliwary. Ha need his tier.
rites Is bore beam of au stries44l a Melefetfiterali ete fl• here
throws all vibe had gorse before Mai nom the abode. dad is
cesseerproce of his excreting', iserilenese osselisam he
had reeomarmsded an ierrearrt of aolary„ sot tra be Eisen ID
Mr. Sallies., wane zeal fall standstill had beta al cumipi.
troops and in exemplary., bad 6o nhernom might chaste to
succeed him. Such a principle of reward mad autwabatitios
lof emolument be bad sever before heard of, mid madly teald
um comprehend.
4 • Lord PALMERSTON mid, the Honoured, Modibert
with hi. 'noel inceonatericy, bad beat curaptained Nan too
large s sato., .22 given irt Mr. !Outlives. and wow Iliosiwei
Inn for soot having reronswiemted that it should be istbressed.
Mr H. G. BENNETT vindicated his Honourable Primed
, (Mr: Hone) from the charge sf bitossieleney. HI. Ho.
Geetable Friend bail tensility at first maid foe as ex.
plaeatioa of the claims of Mr./Whys. to so large
sty; sold the Nutile Lord is explanation had nand the
nodal, and services of that weettersan to be eneh as
In induce him to recurnineied as addition of 21/01. to
the misty, not ol laineself, bat of hie softener, whoever
I be might be, aria however little he eight be capable of de.
I serving it. His Barometric Friesd, in reply to that explaisv
tioo, had expressed hie surprise at the extraordinary mode
wield/410f comphinesting and rewinding Mr. &Oliver tee
big verifiers, by watch out himself, but aurae other perm* to
cense after km, of whom he Mime ',whine, sod who Nicht
probably sat be half so d lag. well to be beaebied. He
(Mr.. H. G. B.) wan at a leas is discover any i literacy in
that.

Lord PALMERSTON explained, that he had reeofa-
meaded the inerts.e of salary from a persuasion that It was
doe lu the weight of hasineas which fell to it. But Mr.
Sullivan and himself had tostarred in preferring that it
should lie a pioripective regula son, and not an immediate
one, brcau.e that Geo4•seas was a persotial toaamtion of
kls, and appointed by lima.
Mr. W. SMITH said, there did aM yet appear say suffi-
cient rams fur the 'acreage of salary to the successor to the
office, the duties of which were now so /ally u 4 ably per.
formed at a salary of 1,000/.
The elite was then ogrtetl to.
Laird PALMERSTON then proposed the grant of 110,903/.
for as allowance to the Paymaater•Geoeral, his Deputy,
clerks, die.

Cumin DAVIES said this was an office which might be
altogether dispensed with, and the duties performed by the
Secretary at War, within whose control it lay. In 1797,
when there were two joint Paymaster'', one of whom had
since been abolished as • insecure, the charge of Ibis
office woe ugly 11,3401.; which at present fir salaries alone,
exclusive of imperanosiation pensions and cootiageociis, was
swelled to 19,0001., being, if the salary of the income since
sbollsied were dedaeird, more than double the amount at
NW period. On whet oround, he asked, was this ewers-
goat sod sinless eutsbiwhment to be kept up. Bat he knew
it would be is vent to contest the point ; that was apparent
from themes's', in which the discussions on these estimates
were treated. Last year Gentlemen voted for the estimates,
gad afterwards fur the "eposl of some of the taxes; this
year they would not vote for the repeal of any taxes,but they
mid they would vote spinet Ike estimates. When, how.
ever, it came to the point, and the estimates were pet to the
vote, the same Gentlemen either voted with the majority.
or never gave any vote at all. On that eased be would
not undertake to propose any amendment ;rhos if say other
Gentleman moved au imiendenent, be should be ready to
support him.
Sir C. LONG said, that none of the Committees which had
satoo the office of Paymaster, General had ever thought it
useless, hot now the Honourable Gentleman comes slows,
and, in his sagacity, diecovere that which had escaped them ;
hot he (Sir C. Long) would tell him, that hit kaew nothing of
throatier. of the office wises be rafted it, duties merelyanisise
*real. Did he coercive the payment of she half pay was* mi-
nisterial duty, which could be discharged by the Bank of En-
tered ? Another duty which the Paymaster had to perform,
mad which he (Sir C. Long) had been occupied with daring
the 'morning, was the Axing the amount of petiole's to be
goyim to discharged sniffier*. Was that a ministerial duty
which the Bank could perform? Again, in the psymest of
pelteemirney, three was a duty which was pot ministerial,
sad which no Bonk could perform. If the Honourable
Gentlemen was satiated of the correctness of his own
views with respect to the office, he ought to brie( in a
Sill to put it on a different footing; but if be oestured to
hooch on that sea, he wonld be shipwrecled before he gut
a hewing, yards from shore. As to the half pay, in 1792 it
smounted to 231,0001. and the number of persons to whom it
was paid was 4,707, and the payments were twice a year.
Now the amount was 1,520,000 f. which was paid to 11,900
peesons try quarterly payments ; so that the i aaaaa scot bass-
sees Ma me 1792 would well account for the Macrame, its the
establishment of the office, and that increased bassinet*
arose from eels of that House. To another &cessation of
the Hon. Gentleman he pleaded guilty. The cry bad hitherto
been, you have struck of from the poor clerks, but have
left untouched the beads of departments; but be (Sir C.
Long) had diinioisbed the eateries of all the higher classes,
sad now, of the lower.

Mr. WUME said, the whole amount of the redoetioes
verde by the Might Him. Gentleman, as compared with last
year, anwowired to 1,9011, and the accountant still stood at
1,5001 a year a casino.' et 1,4801., sap so on in proportion.
This whole of Hight Hon. Gentlempn's speech turned on
the word ministerial, and yet the Finance Coessinistee of
1817 make use of the eery same word ; and the Vapor(
went on to state that alt MN duties were reduced to mere mat-
ter, of account. The business was in fact now coadocted by
prieted forms, ands* mock had the clerks to do, that if Foes
went to the y-office before 11 o'clock or after two o'clock,
you bed no ellutme in get say business dote. He thought
the office hour, ought to he at least from nine o'clock till
four. As to the duties at Chethea Hospital. or those rela-
tive to peke-money, the Right Hon. Gentleman said they
had nothiog to do with the duties of the Paynsastir-General.
Last year he (Mr Hume) had found fault Mete a charge of
3,800/. fur expense of paying rereigo officers; be &toot me
that item in this year's estimate; was that trastsferred to
the Paymaster.Gersenre office? Hr should like to b ice_
formed whether the Committee about to be appointed on the
public accounts were to exJend their inepsiriee to other
offices besides the y ? If they were, he thought thaly
would point out a simple mode of keeping the amounts its
the perraces. of both the army sad navy.
Sir C. LONG said, he had always studied to Misplay the

accounts orbits office, bat the Hautarable Gestlenses would
recollect that hr (Sir C. Lang) was a public aecountaat to
the amount of nearly three hundred asillauw;-and though, no
doubt, the Honourable Gentlemau could gave him a ampler
form of arniuntr. yet be mudt look &little Ishii, own awe.
city, and consiatratiy with that object, the bootee's could not
be done in a simpler form. The paying of the foreign cams
Itadleea transferred to the Pay.oflier, mad be (Sw C. Long)
had selected two out of thesis clerk. formerly employed by
Mr. Disney, and appointed them on the same saltily, sod at
the Dame time giving them so•underainnttbaftbey were tbni-
porary clerk.; thew conditiowthersubwribed to, and yet the
lieu. Member for Aberdeen was not satisfied. lie therefore
despaired of any thing being done on that aide of the House
whieb.euntd satisfy she Hun. Gentleman. If the Paymaster'.
Daft ia 1791, were mioitterial, It had changed its character
wry materialy in lst2, and ther die Flan. Gentleman Inuit
below, if be kiiew way thing at allot' the ollice.
Colonel DAVIES espinitied.
Lord PALMERSTON said, the office of Pasoinater.G•-
neral was out simply to issue money, as the Hon. Gentk-
mon supposed; but he had-
the duty to aicertain by a entente
lospretion of durosuerrtai not only the identity of party,
but their barring coeforosed so sill the regulations of thvekr-

vier. The hiymasiet.Csessersl was oho iz.isjficalo Paymaster
of Chchir3 llospitil.
Mr. HUM C said lie inset remind the Noble !Ara (Pallier.
stun) that last year be declared it was impossible to iramifer
ibe payment of the foreign troops, yet this year he
It.
Mtsr few yardarm's Mr. PEAMCB and Col. DAVILA
the resolutiou wes named to.
£6,1144 was thee moved fur the Adisitaut.Gmersl's De.
parlors'.
Mr. HUM/testi'''. the Noble Lard), smuttiest to el minas..
dieted Aural Ibob, by which he wield we that them 1, Of au
allowsom of balf. to be combined till the Ailistast.Geoerol
oat placed on the staff. lie wislud to know if that officer

was mos ems cue tiro dee! Whetter AlitieleaMitre ME—
• year fems the romesamil Of the Id West I fa mimetic I
Lord PALMERSTON elid the Adjdiest ral lad set
, bees os thrust since the year ISIS.
The resolution lets thee agreed
.4,6•0 wag thew 1110‘111 fur the Jedee-Adeteeete.Crisevel,
his Depety, Clerks, and contingent calker/es Of Ilia office.
Mr. HU el E observed there Cat • rechictiola of 600/. from
this item, end tilted to know hoer it armor ?
Lord PALM ERSTON sale It arose rpm the absllitio• of
the Deputy Judge•Advoeute In ffetth Britain, and the cc-
lietesent of the Dewy ledge-Advocate of &Weed.
Mr. HUMS said be *amid be glad to know If there Were
•u
intention of bringing bask the oiler; of the Joke Ad-
vueate-G Ito the rate at which It formerly stood ? Two
thourand Are huudred pounds a year he conaidrred to be
too merit is the present elteenslanees.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER snit the
Offices of Jedge-Adeocate of Preotlatid and Ireland being
abolished, the whole of the desire of those °den were thrown
upon the Jodie A dveeate.G. areal.
Mr. HUM E said, front the Report of the embetirsioners
of 81 dila', Is/wiry, the allowances of this officer wet. stated
at 1.3701. A charge took piece in URN; sod Why! Oa
steeliest of the greet iscresee of the army; sod certainly the
centismaace of the increase could not bare twin note*.
plated In time or peace, when our military farce was so
touch reduced. There could be hut little addition to the
duties from the troops in Scotland 1 sad as for Ireland, three
wee se Deputy-Advocate Geseral there. on whom the burden
of tie business meet prittei pally re.t. On the whole, be con-
sidered the* a salary of 1,5001 • year, with • house to live
in, was an ample salary; he 'Wild therefore stove, that ie.
stead of 4.5101, the sum to be granted be 3.5801.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained.
The SO LI CI TOR-11EN ERA L said this patent nice bed
been on its present footing piece the Rerdlutioe, and the
Stacy had nut been accessed fur a period or so years prior
to the year 161014TIve Hon. Member for Aberdeen supposed
that the duties of the office Were diminished by the peace
but from the alteration win* took place in 1511, whew
general regimental courts-martial were introduced, so
far from' being reduced, the number of reports were
increased I. the proportion of three to two. It wee
daring Mr. Foes administration that It was thought
proper to place this office on the footing ofone of the Judge
of Ike Court of Elefs Beath. The Hon. Member (Mr. Hume)
melded ant aware of the duties of this office I. time of
peace. The proceedings of every general regimental Court
martiel were transtnitted to the Judge Advocate G I, by
whom they underwent • minute investigation, for that office
was for the protection of officers of the army; for though
it were martial law, it was administered sccurding to the
criminal law of ngland, and the sults of evidence.
If three roles bad been violated, it was the duly of
the Judge-Advocate General to prevent the sentence being
carried into execution. He was also the legal adviser
of the Contenanderis-Chief and the Secretary at War. The
salary be considered not el ell dispopurtmeate to the duties
of the office; but it should be known that when the Judge.
Advocate General foe Ireland was abolished, it was at the
epeeist iesisom of the Geatlemsn now holding the office
that no increase of salary was made for the additional duties
so throwa upon him.
Hr. HUME said he knew not Where the Learned Gentle.
mere got his information that this was • patent place, by which
be wished it to be eadevetood it was one with which the House
amid sot interfere. The Learned Gesileman said the same
roles prevailed in Courts Martial as in Courts of Law, when
in fact it was the complaint of every officer that the rates of
evidence were not attended to. The Leveed Geed nen
was, be believed, just es correct • night or two ago, when he
alarmed that his Majesty bad so power to reverse the see-
levee of a Court-Martial, when it was a notorious fact that
his Majesty did frequently interfere, nod where a simple
mow bad been passed had dismissed the dicer.
The SPEAKER said, as be had had the bow* to 11l
the ogee sew ender the esisinderation of theComettetrie be
wished to put them is possession of what his spieled was
of the *Wee of that office. Had it bees • mere question of
redoetio• of salary or remodelling the dicey he showid net
have troubled the Committee with • since *aril ; Isut he was
smarm* that the Committee should know that the import-
sem *delicacy of the duties were not reduced by the ehriege
front war to peace. Those duties it noes impossible .hold he
lightly dealt with. This olicerr had the right of private
audience of the Soveselme, tool he would put it to the Com-
injure as long as the *sties existed, whether they could
diminished by the question of peace or war. It one psi.
fectly true, as the Hon. Member (Mr. Hume) bed Weird,
that in 'meanies the strict roles of the law of evident, were
not complied with as in Courts of Justice. it was obvious
that this arose from the constitution of the Court (admirably
fitted foe Its purpose), but not consisting of Lawyers. That
point he bad considered of so greet importance, that
he did, with the able assimmice which he then bad, at.
ways asfil and examine to see not only that the of-
fence was proved, but that it was proved according to the
strictest rules of evidence; and no the remelt, he toot upon
himself to advise the Crown either to approve or disapprove
the sentence. The importance to characters renskting the
promulgation of any part of the proceedings till filially set-
tled • molter of great cessequenre, prevented him fro*
Itieg with any one, and impressed bin with • Deese of
the deep responsibility which be owed to indivsduals, that
they might trove the benefit of every point of law. la the
first two years after his •epointmest to the office, he had
never been absent from Downing-street for Ere weeks, and
be believed that be might confulengy say, %bet not a day had
passed in which he was not in communication with the Come
mender-its Chief, the Secretary at War, and the Secretary of
State. If the office was to be maintained •t al!, it should
be with that character sod dignity Siting for the individual
who bad to hear so hero., a responsibility. Should OW Com-
mittee decide fur reducing the salary to 1,6001. • leer, he
entreated them to come to that opinion ou some ether
ground than that of the unimportance of the duties of the
office.

The flattery was then cleared fur a division. The urn•
hers were—
For the Motion. l4
Against it . 124

Majority for Ministers.... 106
On our return to the gallery, Lord PA LhtERATIr., pro-
posed that the sum of 6,716 f. be voted for the Methesl De-
partment-
Mr. HUME thought the House should recollect the dif-
ferent sitastion in whicb the country was placed 114/W and in
1792. The Medical Boards had been increased, and in his
opinion might .be diminished without any detriment to the
public aervise. He was unwilling to be dividing the Cont-
ainer. bat he was satisied that an.reenuenical arrsugenient
might be made by uniting the different Medical Bosnia antler
one establishment, and reducing the number of desks. He
threw this oat as a suggestion which be hoped would be
acted upon on 'lettere occasion.
Loud PALMERSTON said the duties of the Medical Ele..
parlament were of • aacut important desertption, and no one
part of the military syrtein had been more improved attire
1199.

- -
The TOW wee &voted' to, aud •artous other iteruvwere thou
proposed aud agmed to.
Fur Hospital coutiogeoetose.l9,3so/.

Fur Medicine, &c. i; Ireladd,f,oolif.; sad
For the Volunteer Corps in Ireland, 61.3191. 194. ed.
Lord PALMERSTON' theta proposed that the gum of
13,e621. Is. 7J. be voted totters, the expenses of the Muyal
Military College,
Mr. FIUME nkjected to the great expense al elk* Ilia
establishment was kept up. There was a G./senior, •
Lieutenant-Gortrour, Maitre, Captains, ettkitsloittg. Ad. add
he really could not see the aavervotty of *art) s eaurinous
townie the education of ■ few young Men. One huhdrltd
and Maly young wen had been windtlell slow the-pease,
each of wheat cod the country 7901. a.yeer. &sites, he
thought ".5 was eitrenttly improper to take in more yonug
wen tits. cuald be provided for in the army. There were
29 Professors is etietwl them. The number was 31, bat two
had berm reduced, and routs still remained for forests. ne-
duction. The Mom. Gentlet•an refereed in support of his
argument to the Report of the Committee of Finance, which
elated, " that alibiing% they fully eoneurreal an the r
or mitosfitium the children of brave men whet had fall.D ut the
service of their country, yet unite 'Amnia be atinantrd lots the
Royal Military College that cuulJ not obtaiii coluotissioso,