The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1819-03-02 00:00:00

INDIA.

Mr. C•IINI NG postpunrd his ►tilotiou of Thanks
to the Army au Indim.

PENRYN ELECTION.

The Order of the Day fur resuming the ad-
journed debate on issuing a New Writ fur the
Borough of Penryn, having► beers read—
The SPEAKER said, it might be cotiveident to
the House, before they proceeded to the que►-
tion, to know 111 what state of forwardness the
printing of the minutes was. He believed they
would nut be completed till late on Wearies-
day evening, and therefore could nut be laid
before Aleurbers till Thursday morning. He
had examined all the precedents since 1770, the
year in which the Gresibille Act had 'mord, and lie
believed lie could safely state, that the uniform
course pursued by the Douse was to .It•lay issuing
the writ till the minutes had been laid ors the table,
save in an instance where the Atiortiey-General
was ordered to prosecute the parties. He started
this, he said, for the satisfaction of the House, as
the result of the research.s lie had made.

Sir C. BURRIML Said, lie wished that the Report
of the Cuutunttee appointed to try the merits of
the Election in ISO 7, fur tht► borough, might be
rat('.

The clerk accordingly read the Report, which,

• •
•• • • 40 0. $ "11 •••

. ew),.

• •
like the rev ot Report, noticed arts of corruption.
Sir C. HERKLI.I., after a few wool.. n. which
inailerstoral him to oily that it woulil fw deatratile
*fore a final decision, to have the minutes of ilo-
eviffvore h. fwe the lai•I before bie
House, unwed, that the debate oil ihis soitit•ntt
should he pdjootnrd in Monday, the nth of Nlaii h.
Oil the notion being put trout the Grail. a
M4'llllo9'. Nr believe
Mr. GRANT, *aid, that whatever differences of opt.
niou tberc 'night IN-, as to propriety Of •teprlVelig
the linrinigh its t•ollt.i be mine
its li:14, that the purity or Elretioo ought I • I, dr..
feuded lay every pi actical mean.. Ile coiwiriVr d
that the I louse, on the present subject, had ddlieul.
ties to susidount. If a writ were immediately is.
plied, prism's who had !wen convicted of bribery
and cur row too would still exercise the power Of
Vatill4, Had this, hr 4•4aitelVed. was a powerfof tea-
son oily a wilt should nut he issued. Oil the oilier
hand, there was a strung argument in favour of tlw
few Electors, who exercised fairly arid purely their
cosistibitional right, that they, by the delay of is-
suing the writ, have no Representative, awl are de-
prived of their rights as freeholders. From the
precrileuts hr examined, lie found no case where
the wilt was delayed, but upon the Special Report
of the Cu ((((( utter, and where the Chairman of that
Committee moved to delay the issuing Of the writ.
Ile saw so far great tilfliellity, talleed, lit the aay of
delaying the issuing of /I new writ—but when lie
looked into the Joitrinila of the House, and read
the Report of the Committee of ISO 7, where, in 1
the case of thin licnough inshioces rif corruption
had been disclosed, and wheii hr '44W its thr present
instance that a greater number of veisolo4 had hero
guilty of corruption than on the former occasion,
lie felt every wish to agree to the motion oh the firm.
Baronet.
Mr. ATKINS WRIGHT said, that unisapprelien-
aim, prevailed as to what exactly appeared before
the Committer. Before the Committee it ap-
peared that seven or eight persons bud received
bribes. It hail been stated, that )00 persona had
been found guilty of corruption; but there WAS lig
such thing. As to the list of the voter., he knew
not how the fact stood as to these, more than that
the friends of the Petitioner gave notice to the
voters, that the Gentleman petitioned against hid
been guilty of bribery, and that Sly supporting
him they would throw away their votes, as the elev..
bon would be set aside; anal that counter notices
had been distributed by the oilier party.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, that this borough, It
appeared from the Report just read, had been
.•.iund, in 1807, guilty of acts of corruption ; and it
had been stated, that bribery was so well untler-
stood, that neither one party nor the other, at the
late election, attempted to propose the bribery
oath. It was, he said, on this distinct occasion, ne-
cessary that the manilas of the evidence should be
produced, and tilt should appear that the borough
hail been guilty of the foul, corrupt, and disgrace.
ful practices imputed, lie haul no hesitation to say,
that it would hr but a slight visitation that the
franchises should be suspended of those who had so
much abowil them. He hoped the House would
look narrow') into the matter, for nothing,' in his
01,1111011. was more likely to depress its dignity and
its influence, than the imputation that it would for
one tooment attempt to screen practices of the oda.
Out itattlfe COltplailled of.
Mr. ATKINS %V MOUT Maid, that oohing had ap-
peared before the Committee es to whether the bri-
bery oat's had ur had nut beets tendered at the eke-
.
" boo.

Sir JOHN NEwpone said, that if no entry ape
pray(' in the pull-1 ks of the bribery oath having
been tendered, it was I.l'lltCliCe that no such oath
had been tendered.
Mr. HARVEY owid a few words, from which we
could collect that he did not mean to oppose the
motion.
Mr. BANKLI said, that from the nature or the
case lie thought throe should be as little delay as
possible.
Mr. DENISON Stull, that a system of the most
shameful bribery had been prly.tistil iti this twist
respectable and virtuous borough. Ile tindersiuorl
throe were public breakfasts given, and that every
voter sold his vote for 24/. it appeared front the
'triton that hial been read, that in the very last
Session of Parliament this borough wits convicted
of acts of bribery and corruption.—The motion
was then put and carried.
MR. GRADY.
Mr. C. IFlcirctitssoN said, hr would detain the
House but a little nine. Ile would nut enter
into any of the topics that had been, on a former
night, adverted to in the I louse. It attr the feeling
of all sides that Nlr. Grady should, on complylog
with the usual luaus, he released froth lon rundnr-
Inent. It was, he said, his wish, as 'noel: a. nosii•
ble, to conciliate all sides ; tool lie t‘orri.l lie sorry
thst any thing should full from lion that sought
irritate Gentlemen, or Injure the case of the
Petitioner. It was his simple duty to lay the case
of the Petitioner before them. The Petition which
lie held in his hand stated, that the Petitioner dal
nut question the privileges of the House; that lie
bad no intention to give the House idrei.ce; and
!snip that lie might be released from imprisonment.
%%lien the Petitioner should be celled to the bar,
be would there also declare thut he had no !listen.
non to offend the House. Hr (Nlr.
considered that he would have been delivered from
los confinement, on the last night hits care canoe
before the criltsirlesulioto of the House, if it load
io.t happened that 1w did snit, through ignorance.
comply with the Gains of Parliamentary proceed-
togs. . .

- -
On the Prtition tieing tinkled to lie on the 1:.1)1r,
tilt B. WI L-iON, In a %rry liiw tone of v.uce,
alluJed to the ill health and the intiiinities of the
Petitioner.
Mr. FicrcitiNwst then moved, that the Peti-
tioner hr brought ul, to the her of the (louse, and
discharged.
Mr. BOOTLE W'ILBRAI(AM maid, that on the
former night he had given hue opinion against the
Petimitier—and though the Petition How rem' In
the House differed little fount the tot utter, he would,
however, merely libmerve to the lion. Member who
pletented the Petition, that it via• the ume.i a of the
1 biome to bring utl Corer .11 tiiiv nature at co early
humor in the day. This, pruciiie hest heen
cetehliah-
rd, beetutee it war inconvenient to interrupt the
House in the course of debate by hearing the apo-
logy VI die hum MI :lb lied itscurred Its disiled.

......j

►urr, soli 011,) uaa olvveys ►epittnowlrrl 1.1 the
raker. ilr, il...etre! to the motion of the.
becou-e Ile conceived it would ,be
sri.,eti.t the nutge, as well ow the convenience 14 the
ta 'wee the Prisoner brought up et it Imo
kalif, tie ,toned thrrefure soatera, that the debate
thtll que.tiou be adjoururd till to-worms,.

Mr. liluttlittioutt ;greed to the eueve•ii o.
mower w. ywa.uun from Nir.
.

The SPEAItk grid, that an nrder to briny up
the Prisoner to the bat itoplied that hr sat to ha
reprimanded.
After I few word% from Mr. WrNo, it mu. Pr;
dried, that 'Mumma hr be os.gitg sip In. „,„,_
row. to be frprimonded by the 'Pr Akt.ii
charged.

WINDSOR ESTABLISHMENT.

Lord CASTLLREAGH brought stir frit the
Watt regulation of Ins liiieray's earl
the care of he. persoss.--liniti a fiat time, Ht,d oi-
dered to be read a areniid time on Tliiir.day next.
The Strum Ve,,el4 Tonnage Bill w.. read ttie
third time, and [word.
The Smuggler,' apprehension Reward, Bill 9•411
read the third time, and ineied.

STATF. OF THE GAOLS.
Lord CASTI,ERF.AI3II that in ri•ina to bring
before the iloust this importient subject, it will sir.

cessary tiv.tinetly to stAte the velure of the Inquiry
to w'rocli hi% olutioti Would Ko. The Hone would
recollet t. th.it tin flonoureille :tntl L-sem-II Geo-

tletuan at the other i•ule (Sir James Mackintosh),
had given notice of n (notion for to-inorrow,
which was cliwely and iiiiiinattly connected
with the motion he (Lord Castlereagh) was

about to submit to their conbitlerstion—ro WI..

mately connected, that it would he impoentble to
advert to the one w ithoot clashing wtiii%t the other,
. .

NMI had the Ilan. and Lesmed —6;adttnaio under:

stout, the prevent motion in the .rave that he (Lord
GistlereJgh) understood it, he had doubled much
it he would have given the notne which remains
for considerdtion to-niorww. At au early stage

of the Ses,,iost his Right I hmourable Fries;.l
(Mr. Ca ttttt lig) ipave notice that he (I.oasal Ce.tte..

seagli) would more fur un inquiry into the »tate of
the gaols, mud nlso into the state of crimes •nd
punishment% He (Lord Castlereagh) thought

that the Hon. Hod Learned Grutiruneu drtl hot

understand the terms of that writer, thou; t i ass
hrietly explained in his preseuce on a bul)setiurtit
day. The meaning of that notice, and his intro-
thou, was not slimily to inquire into the state of the
gaols—it hail a much older object—it went to an
inquiry into the piesent state (Attie criminal law. The
[louse would see what the grounds of the inquiry
were, when the subject was brought before their

view. They would ere that it could not he the mete

iiitention of his ►notion to cmfine inquiry to the
sone of the prisms, or to a classification of the
prisoners. If the object were so limited. he did
nut think that the twit mode of proceed►ng would

he to submit the matter to a Committee of the
House. I u such east he would think that it would

he a more certain uud satisfactory way to is.ue it

eutoloiasiou to the difrreut gaolers, to report
swot) these matters, netoely, as to the state of
the prawns end the situation of the prmmers.—
Hut the motion bed • much more comprehemeve

obret. ; it was, he conceived, inspossible to consider
the Wale of the gaols without also eimisidcring the
isicreisbe of crime. The ineretioe of crime, lie Nati!,

must necessarily have an influence oa the system of
gaols. It was necessary, for the better
ednlinlstra-
tiuu of gaols, to consider also the best means of di.
iniiiishing crime ; for, it' crimes were not
diminish-
ed, gaols should be multiplied, and i.;reist expense
would be heaped upon the publie. ciownler
both were objects be had in view, fur it was
sible to look at the state of the prisons without
looking also at the state of the critninal law. ln.
deed, if the matter were fairly considered, it would
be seen, that there was no difference between his
motion and that of the Hon. and Learned Geotlew
man. The object of both was to inquire into the
causes and the extent of crime ; the only different e
between them was, that the lion. and Learned Gen-
tleman would direct his inquiry alpinist the law,
whilst he (Lord Castlereagh) made the law as con-
comitant to au Inquiry into other questions. Hls
(Lord Castlereagh's; OttjeCt was to make the law this
basis of his argument ; hut the motion of the Hon.
and Learned Gent. would prejudice the law and its
adinionitration, and he would do so before ally iv-
gamy had been made into the low by the eye of
l'isrlianteilt. In like manner the 1-hon. and Learn-
ed Gentleman, without into the policy of
the lian sanguinary part of thol laws, would condemn
them isro. Upon this part of the subject much
previous inquiry was necessary, as to how for
tratisperiatton uaight be laid aside for solitaiy
imprisonment, and how far oilier modes ef
puoislimesst might be applied, instead of those
which are now inflicted. The mode inttiidol

by the Illonourable and Learned Gentleman, I e
vOticewed tray inexpedient ; no advantage c.mho
result Itorn it, but on the contrary much income-
:lino:v. The result, in fact, of that 141011 e
he to degrade the hose; it would he poliaps
Loll out false expectations e 4 In the degree of Irony.
to be extended in the reduction of the Pens!
Code, which, oti imiry, the Parliament mold
not safely extend. On the mans gloniol of
motion, it was imposqhle to avoid the I.t
inquiry which the mot. of the Illotiourvble and
Learned Gentleman smolt also einloJce. The
state of the prisons—the 'Jolley and erfectsof trams.
imitation—the state of the hulks—ail MUM come
under consideration. He wished to bring the pie—
bon before the Howie so as not to withhold troy
tiring ; lie did not wean to narrow it, hut to take
the moat comprehensive view that it would he true
and possible to take.—[Here his Lordship made sii
allusiou to an Honourable Gentleman on the second
bench, we beliete lie meant Mr. Buxton, to tome
I.tbours on this important subject, its ust:44l
they were splendid, he bore testimony.]—Au
to the motion of the Honourable and Lerriod
Gentleman, his (Lord Castlereagh's) 'inmost rat-
braced etery thing contemplated by the former,
atid it would secomplitili every thong in a wore 4•011.
trident tray; his mode appeared to him the inimt
natural cour,.e of inquiry. Hr would cut..ii!cr the
treatment of criminals to until ; the state of the
prisons ; the state of the law ; and niderd Le could
fee Ito paettcal difference Ilea:ern tin in, 'nit
thut the Honourable and Learned Gentleman
would go out of hi, way to tit:pogo the I..st•
ll'ith respect to the division of labour to be tJ

•

i
fitted le mistiness nothing he conc::ved die, live hail cli"ea in rm 97, there were, tie
might say, I WO
could be flout oat or a Committee ;he saw nu dit- periods, and the number of executtuas was greater
tieulte is the way et the Inquiry, hut he conceived during the first period than iii the latier.--.
that
these maws Came under distort and ,:eietraie %Val% respect to the Er..strst growth of crime, it
head, Thar abate of the subjele wee eeireinely wail to be feituil chiefly milder that ily.cription of
delicate, it greatly iutereated the public feeling, offence. denominated larceny. As to burglary raid
hat not more, in his opinion, then it ought ; dist robbery, the growth of those crimes was liy no
{,,hull, directed to such subjects as the firmed, means commensurate with what it was at former
produce
.I.i.ltitary effects.—. 11ef10.10.4.91i1l it was worthy of observation, that
was always safe to
The slats of the criminal law would natiirally ga tits- aegravated character which used to mark thole
uuder the consideration of a Committee; hot it was offence* 110 longer distinguished them ; they were
neeest impossible to UAW) Oh that subject with t i not perpor4t.-41 with soi•li einstinistalices of tilrlS-
-3,..,
roibniciuit the eeiliteral question of gaols. He sinus ertielty mid violence as formerly accompanied
did out see the teat essity nor the wird or having them. Having stated so much tut the subject of
ditferent Ceisamitters appointed to invratigate sub. crone, ill general', lie should now advert to a 110111,
nearly cousiecied as to form hot which, he conceived, teretigthened and corroborated
Pc" which k "tiler& I 1, adof i • G nil his opinion, that the increase or crime Heise from
parts or a general writer. mite laving a
Committee. a C mittee for Botany Bay, and other temporary cause*. Amongst the female sex, it
quest.
e, he thought the better way would be for would be perceived, that the growth of crime
the House to collect the teat information as to the hail Merest-eel in a very small proportion, which
the mode of transportation, plainly pits-ried that the increme had prima-
etiolation of the hulks,
and to re- pally occurred in those classes of the paella-
she subject of seciatirlary punislimetitti,
port mem e full and compretwowire view. This tent that had been exposed to great difficulty,
was preferable to partial and discordant viewe to he slid whose habits were connected with a war-
taken by d Iferent Committees mono this most im- like life. There was something gratilyieg in con-
loneliest 'object. It was the hest and safest way siderite; this part of the subject, as well in content-
/if tworeeditig-.-it answered all the ends in view, mud plating the manlier in which the prerogirtive of
earned inquiry to its uitnnat extent. He could not mercy had been exercised. The principles of hu-
improve of air attempt to weaken the natural and manity hail been strictly attended to—and mercy
mend hog...tree of the law, and by one sweeping had been PO extended as to resider it highly boleti-
iia„,,e to amok the Penal Code with disepprobatims cal. The laws had been most leniently carried
and fingerer. Ile (Lord Casilerregli) hoped the Hon. into effect. There was not only no increase in the
and !availed Gentleman would take smeller view of total number of executious. of late years, computed
the sebiect. The course he intruded to 'Melte with preeetleig periods, but there was an actual and
would out diminish the difficulties that lay in the positive dimi ssss tion. lie begged to call the sewn.
way of reformatiou. The hest reform, the surest lion of the House to this part of the subject, which
way of anieliuretion, was nut to inflame the passimie was the more important, when it was recollected
let exaggerated statements. This he 211.14V14 lotted that several Gentlemen coneidered our criminal
injurious. The mind, from this state of excitation, law as possessing a mint sanguinary character,
sinks into indifference, and there is sat energy end had delivered opinions which tended to snake
enough' left te attain useful end practicable object's. time peuple believe that the code under which they
1
He would stow advert to the progress of mime, which lived was more severe than that of any other cotes-
crrtaiuly was distressiug, mild would be alarming if try. The number of trials had greatly increased,
it could um be in some degree etplamed. For the and the number of convictions, for offences to which
last 4or 5 years. the isisesher of criminals, takiisg even the penalty of desalt was attached, had also
into account the persona st present under accuse- increaeed very much, but the sentence in few cases
tiros in Euglaud awl Wales, were more than don- was carried into execution. For a series of years,
lee; and in wolfram prior the 'umber increased I up to 1805, the number of persons convicted cite-
three to rue. This stateasent, he said, was truly tally throughout the country was, on the average,
alai • g, but three were circumstances which 350 in each vear—at a later period about 1,t50 per-
gave reasen to hope that they proceeded from sons received sentence of death in the course of
temenrery causes. The situation of the country each year. But, if they looked to the earlier
ter the last twenty years had undergurie the most perind, they would find, that, with respect to
stailect cissuges ;it was not the same country ;it orrelfilt of the persons thus convicted, the
Lad settled iu size; the metropolis had incieaseil law was suffered to take its course, while the
to size and in poptilatimi ; the cities in the country proportion in the two last years was, in 1417,
bad miso increased; there was a visible alteration one in eleven, and in 1818, only one in twelve.
in the character of the people. The R11111111.4C During the whole period, it appeared that the
luring system had placed the situation of the administration of the law had been such es to
country, and its moral character, in a different I retrench, in a very great degree, the number of
different view front what it had been. Looking capital punishments. To simplify and prove this,
at time progress of crime, it would be found he would state to the House the number of persons
tem belt the number of criminals in England executed its the whole of Great Bream. in the last
and Wales would be found in five counties, year, %lath was 97—and no considerable variatiou
namely. the counties of Somerset, Middlesex, from that iiiiinber had taken place for many yesie.
Surge), (as adjoining the metropolis), %%Ter...telt, and pest. On the other hand, in several different years,
York, distmesuislied alike for its space and us ex- the Humber of executions in London and Middle-
tele. In Muse tire comities would be found *ex mimic, had exceeded the total amount of exe-
twee than half of what was the extent of crime cutiotis that now took place throughout the entire
iii Eiaisiod sill Wales. These counties were the kingdom. A document would he laid before the
great maimfaciiireig counties. lit York the ma- Commence that would place this 'subject in the
mime are of cotton *hour, which before the war had clearest light. It would embrace *period of peace
onseineed in between 3 and 4 indiums, swelled at and of ya, since it went back so far as the year
leisetit to the enormous amount of IS millions star- 1749. and stated the number of executions in
ling. There were, he said, other circumstances London and Middlesex during each year. He
\shish might in some degree account for the growth would take it up at the year 1783, which, as it
of crime, particularly within the last four or five was immediately sifter the period of the American
years. There were enormous numbers added to the war, currespouded most nearly with the present
petiole from the army and navy ; cettaiuly not situation of the country.
I. Ws than from three to four bombed thastisand lii ine, .the number executed in London and
per.uns. He mentioned the fact merely to Middlesex, alone, war
.hew the increase of populatien, and so far to I: 11744 . 66
5
...... 97
account for the increase of c • . There per- t„ teed
siovi were not used to labour, they were not used 1 g 1757 . 92
to subsist upon their industry. and the general And so at went on, in the same ratio. Here it
embarrassmetit was increased by the distress would be observed, that in 1785, 97 persons were
which pressed upon the country, the difficulty of i, executed in London and Middlesex alone, being
procuring employment, and the lowering of wages. exactly time number executed, throughout all Eng-
These distresses reduced many to indigence, and land, ill the late year. During that period, only
threw them upon parish support—a state which was •le were executed in London mid Middlesex, and
ceserary to the pride and feelings of the people ; . the average was not more than 20 for several years
this ectsmitilatioti (Asocial difficulty naturally pro- . past. lf, therefore, he had not taken a perfectly
slimed an increase of crime. There were other ermieous view of the subject, it would appear, that
facts to sheer that the increase of ensue had pro- the laws had exceedingly diminished iii paint of
created from temporary resume After the war severity, es would be welt (ruin the comparisou be-
the people in fact passed from one mode of lime; t tweeze the number of executions that time took place
to smother, mild it was at this crisis that the deli- ia London and Middlesex, us well as throughout
eeity of SS livellllooll is greater, and that there tie whole country, countered with what formerly
is the most ilengermis tendency to ermine. The ureurred tit Loudon and Middlesex alone. lie had
industry of the people for the last years of the i stated enough, he hoped, to the House, to
war partook of a warfame kind ; the sudden changer itnisiess them with the feeling which he him-
bail cuiseerpietitly hail an effect upon public pros- self eirtertaitied. The reit was, no doubt,
pertly and public morals. But though mauy • one of very great magnitude ; so greet indeed
Crimes had increased, it was still satisfactory to that the House emitd not cope with it, if it
limes, Alert those offences against nature—those did not appear to arise front temporary causes. It
-rimer of a blacker die have nut increased. /is had hot certainly taken that direction which their
this class of crimes there has been no isscrease ; nature would most revolt at. The great pressure
comparing them with a former period, when the on the lower orders of society, and the state of war
population was fuss numerous, those enormities i in which this country had so long been plionged,
mite out been greater ; and in the last year had created great temptations for the commission
the convictions were fewer dam the history of the lof crane. jr, to check these evils, they could find
country recorded for a great number of years. out srcandery i ..... isliments, sufficiently severe to
There had beets no increase of murder—sehere inflict tieit salutary terror on the minds of culprits,
had beet' no increase in cutting amid maiming— i which was so necessary to the well-being of society,
there load beau nu increase iti cases of bur- i they would, ht dosoleedeue, act as sit effectual core
glory, tapes, and assaults. Those crimes that give i restive of vice. But lie understood an Hots. Gen-
tile must pandit: evidence of moral depravity, and them's' (Mr. Buxton) to maintain, that the great
is huh are the must difficult to cocrect, had not, he growth of vice was to be attributed to the contimie
soul, increased, hut in many instances were ou the I natisig convulse into whicli culprits were intro.
decrease. Time-class of .crimes that had most in- I ducal, in the different places where they were im.
creased, were Ouse of forgery, larceny, awl robbery. prisomel. It was a matter much to he lamentesl
Well tegard to the Crime of forgery, it was hot that such a mess of vice was congregated in those
toistined to the Bank of England alone, but had places.; but how could it he avoided ? He, how.
Leer greatly !enclosed upon country notes. As to the ever, isi Id upirove the Hon. Gentleman's proposi.
Led. ef Eugland, they had chews much energy tilos, for time purpose of suggeistmg, that the House
tolore the Committee, to devise some mode of would act most etrunenusly, if they supposed, and
teeveisting the crime of forgery; end he hoped that acted on such a supposition, that the great increase
the public would he satisfied with the exertions of of crime did not mist from different causes....
lit silliest seal efficient trody. Great difficulty, I ;Hear, hear.)—ltedixitlitols certainly might, after
kis dome, Ise:ongs to the subject ; it is hard their liberation Irten prison. find their way there a
to ripply a remedy to the evil. Opening the second time ; hut the number of those who thus
Seek, he was sure, would not remove the dif- committed flesh offences would 'let satisfactorily
ficelty cisiispienwil of. The Honourable slid Learn- h account for atm extensive gtowth of the evil. He
est (Is-misuse:3, be was sure, would admit that must. therefore' cutitend against the Hon. Gentle-
it eould tie iiii:poesible too to seduce paper currency man's:propositions as comerehreding too limited a
as to prevent forgeries. Bat it was consolatory to . view of the subject, since lie seemed to imegine.
thnik that thesissember of executions has heen leas that, if they dealt with the state or tic *tots, they
for the last eigla or ten years, than they had been dealt with every thing that was necessary, wlisle, ma
6411.5te eiglit ,r tell ;tears Wore. Since the Batik fact, a Yost number -,of (outlaw, intimate]; tau-

•
Committees, messy of il.em perlsma conflicting
their views. Ile It toted a ereat and combined view-
er the subject would be laid herore them—midi whole
Ilse I ise.e w.1%.1.s somwodoo or Ilse lolottiter or the Com.
touter, it wistil.i then lee for itoltsillsotl kiembers to
point out %itch regolatioo* :or they wished to lie Cal,.
tied into effect. II was his iotentissis in move, in
the terms of the notice, for the appointment of a
Coo 1111 l ittee to comider this subject ; fir lie had
given. in his Hotter, the very WOlll. Of the motion,
in order to nthail the moat perfect information to
all frartiii. If these cords weir slot blarileirgetly
Collll/11111.11bitit., hr *tee ready In Ow them, to as to
ieuilh.r the Committee ciipat:lr of r. cling the oldest
he Willis view. But he depreesit.ii, tic outlet, ally
attempt to appeal to the 1/410.101111 of the multitude.
Ile trusted they would not now be told, for the first
time, that threw laws which their fisthers had taught
them to rtspect, that the criminal statutes of
Eiselund were an oppressive and sanguinary code,
which the House of Commons had disclaimed.—
Such a sentiment would be opt to noluce the loner
orders to believe, that a hoot was held out fur the
commission of crime in this country—that crimi-
nals were in future to proceed with 0;•-eater freedom
in their depredations than Ilse) had ever before douse!
lie called on Gentlemen, for Gull's sake! not to ri/111
down the existing laws of the country, until they
hid funned More just statutes, which might be
Plaintituted in their place. Ile would propose such
a Committee of Inquiry as would not prevent any
proper and practicable course of aniendsuent. To
that Committee he did not think there could be any
rational ground of opposition. and he knew not any
object the Learned Gent, could have in view. that
would not be fully embraced by the Committee he
meant to move for, He therefore urged the Learned
Gent, to accede to his proposition, instead of hay-
ing a number of Committees sitting at the same
time, fur the consideration of the same subject. He
made this motion, nut in opposition to the Learned
Gentleman, but as the wisest and moat just course
the (louse could adopt, for effecting this most de-
licate, difficult, and necessary object. 't he Noble
Lord then moved—

sleeted with the subject, must be examined, if jam.
lice were dour to it. The I louse would, perliiii,s,
go along with him in thinking, that the prerogaieve
of mercy wits pruilemly retro tell to check the seer-
iity of the taws, owl that, on the whole, they were
most mildly 111iniesiistered. It would be a matter
el seri 0000 inquiry, whether, with respect to some t.'
the punishments inflicted by the criminal code,
the salutary terror atilt winch they were intended to
impress the minds of offenders had not erased in
operate.. It would be lot them to consider whether
Botany Bay had not assumed a character more colo-
nial, than was consistent with its situation, as a
spot, banishment to which was intended to he held
out as 11 severe punishment, calculated to produce
a saluting terror 1111 the minds of offenders ?
hear.)—lt would be iiecessary for the
House to decide, when it would he proper to re-
lieve that place from heing the retort of persons of
depraved character 1 It would he prudent fur them
to consider when it would be proper to allow that
place to enjoy those high benefit* which every corm-
try iii the world aspired at, and which was pecu.
Harty looked for in n country possessing so line a
climate and so rich a Hear, hear.)—The
humanity with which offenders were sent there—the
great care that was taken of their health amid morals
....the mildews* with which they were treirted—reue
dered transportation to Botany Bay no punishment
whatever. lurked many who were transported
there received their sentence as a favour, and not as
a punishment.—(/-/tar, hear.)—And he would put
it to the feelings of the House to consider, whether
it was very wise, looking to all the temptations to
which their populatimr was exposed, to suffer one
part of the punishment attached to the commission of
crime to be considered rather as a benefit than an
evil ? If circuinstancem had so blunted the feelings
of triennials ou this point, it would perhaps be nes
emery to make some alteratioo in the law. Having
stated the outline of this subject, he did not wish
to enter into an argument on the state of the cri-
minal code. He thought he had shrivel enough to
prove that Government had caused the law to be
administered, not merely in justice, but in mercy.
Believing that the Learned Gentleman (Sir J.
Mackintosh) had, is common with himself, but
014 great object, that of doing to their country a
most important duty, he deprecated the narrow
view, which, as it appeared to him, the Learned
Gentleman wished to take of the subject.—
That view would, in his mind, have the effect of
placing before the public an improper and highly-
coloured picture of the state of the law—a
esu-
guivary description of their criminal code—merely
because the Learned Gentleman found that to many
of them the penalty of death was affixed. If that
punishment were awarded against crimes that did
not appear to the Learned Geutleman worthy of
' such severity, it would he found that they were not
often visited with it. Ile knew it might be justly
doubted whether it was wise to affix the punishment
of death to offences, which. in the operation of the
law, were not frequently visited with that degree of
severity. This might form a further source of
discussion. But there was soother point, of the
most difficult, delicate, and anxious consideration,
when they were about to deal with crime—namely,
that offences might put on a totally different moral
anti criminal character, from the manlier in which
they were perpetrated—( Hear, hear, hear,)—froth
the circumstances with which they were attended—
( Hear, hear,/—from the violence or forbearance
which marked their execution.—(Hear, hear.)—
If, in looking to this part of the subject, they were
to endeavour to graduate the scale of punishment,
so as to meet every species of crime, under all the
different circumstances of its perpetration, it would
be a perfection, or rather an imperfection of legis-
lation, which would entirely abolish the exercise of
mercy. If they were not prepared to graduate the
criminal scale, from the worst features of offence,
down to those of the lowest and mildest deaciiptiou,
what a difficult and delicate task it was to say
at whet point they would pitch the punishment.
If they pitched it too low, they would do away the
beneficial effect of example, which was of so much
importance, at the same time that they created the
strongest incentive not to add cruelty or violence to
the original crime. If they plowed it too high, per-
haps the law would not he carried into effect, and
an inducement was at the same time held out to the
perpetration of violence. He believed that the
tawnier in which highway-robbery was committed in
this country, us compared with the cruelty which
attended it in others, was to be traced to the
merciful manner in which the laws were atimi-
'littered here. Abroad, murder mind robbery were
constant concomitants—here the eery reverse was
the case, for the criminal knew he hail a considera-
ble chance of escaping death if he behaved with
litimaility, but that his execution was inevitable if
he were betrayed into cruelly or violence. If they
were to graduate this scale of punishment, instead
of leaving it to the mercy of the Crown, under the
representation of the Judges, to pardon, or to
lighten the severity of a sentence when circuits-
silences called for it, they would remove one of
the greatest inducements amongst criminals, not
to proceed with cruelty and violence. He would
ignite address himself to the Learned Gentleman
in the hope that he had no separate feeling' on this
question, in the belief that he thought as lie
(Lord Castlereagh) did, and that he had but ohe
motive, namely, to look to the whole of tins tines-
lion, and to devise proper punishments for different
species of triune. If that were his feeling, he
would submit to him and to the House, that the
object.could only be attained by taking a great
and .comprehensive view of the subject—and,
howewer they might split their Committee into
sections, for the purpose of bringing the whole
question into one common centre, they would
find that ample.' would nut be tiff...cure. if the
Committee were split into separate election',
they would deprive themselves probably of the
assistance .of those men, who would have Korea their
minds and their attention to the whole of the sub-
ject, instead of contimug their investigation to one
narrow branch of it. Therefore it was that he
pressed ma the House the uecessity of adopting
such a Committee as he wait about tocall fur. He
Aid not seek, by the appointment of a Committee
to accomplish any thing that sea lint perfectly kiwi.
431 e. If it were coccerved that the numbers of the
Committee were too few fur so greeting olOct, he
would willingly move to have them extended from
time to time. But he hoped the House would not
have different (tenuous poured OP st frpm venoms

"That a Committee be appointed to inquire into the state
and description of gaols and other places of cuufinruieut,
and loin the best method of providing fur the reformation,
as well as the safe cusiudy and punishment of offenders."
Sir .1. MACKINTOSH said, lie rose, not because he
wished to say slay thing on the present motion, but
because lie might be considered as wanting► in
courtesy to the Noble Lord, who had appealed per-
sonally to him, if he did not make one or two ob-
servation' on this subject. The Noble Lord, in the
course of his speech, had said a great deal about
the motion, which his Lordship supposed be (Sir J.
hlackintosih) intended to make on the following
night, but fie had offered very little in support of
his own proposition. He would not, however, make
any statement, or introduce any argument, con-
nected with his promised motion, until the
proper time for discussion arrived. Unless lie
could theu spew the necessity of inquiring into the
state of a part of the Criminal Law, wholly dif-
ferent from any object of investigation, which the
Committee moved for by the Noble Lord appear-
ed to have in view, the House would, of course,
deal with his 'Ilona; as it would deserve, by rej.•c•t-
ing it. But lie confidealy trusted, that he would
he able to spew them that there was strong ground
for such an inquiry—and iu order to be perfectly
understood, l►e would now state, that lie would to-
morrow move, " That a Select Committee be ap-
pointed to consider so much of the criminal law as
relates to capital punishment for felonies."—{!/ear.)
—That was the part of the cnininal law to which
he meant to direct the attention of the House ii,
the discussion of to-morrow evening. With re-
spect to the admonitions or exhortations of the
Noble Lnrd, who had warned him against using
any arts to inflame the passions of the multitude.
he could assure him that such admonitions
were perfectly unnecessary.—(Hew, hear.)—He
should think it highly improper, if he possessed
talent sufficient to arouse and talents the passions
of men, to call forth those feelings on a great and
serious public question, which could only be de.
tided by calm awl temperate deliberation.—(!!ear,
!tsar.)—He would avoid having recourse to soy
such ;node, which he condenwed as heartily as the
Noble Lord did.—(Hear, hear.)—Neither on this,
pr on any other question, would he deviate froni
course which marked the honour and reverence in
which he held the laws of the countiy—a reverence
which he most deeply felt—and which he conceived
he would best whew by the motion l►e meant to bring
before the House to-morrow.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. LAWSON said, the subject divided itself
into three great brooches—punishment by death,
by transportation, and by imprisonment. The
question was, whether those three points could bet.
ter be investigated I►y one, or by several Comcnit-
tees ? Notwithstauding the arguments of the
Learned Gentleman opposite, he conceived those
subjects were so intimately connected, that the in-
vestigation of one must ne,ceasarily embrace the in.
mestigation of all. The questions were so spliced
together, there was such a trio jowl(' in IMO counet-
tMn between them, that they could not be
considered separately. They must be treated as
one grand tots!, not as three distinct subjects—
they must be looked on, not as individuals, but as
con►lionent parts of the same body. The Learned
Gentleman might have three separate Commit.
tees, but the subject of their investigatiou would
be the same—for each of them would have to
inquire into the whole of the three subject. Thus
they would have the urine labour over and over again.
It evidently appeart al to lain,, that the formation
of three Committers would be ni,proper—for, by
adopting such a sjotem, they would only have
the same Report three times over. In this
distance the &Miami of labour would have an eflcct
.different from what it usually had, since, instead of
dimini►hing, it would increase trouble. The Hon.
Gentleman then proceeded to deprecate the ilk,-
politic humanity which, of late years, was so busy
to revising our Criminal Code. Let them break
off the point from the spear of justice, and see,
whether in that niutilated state, it was so well ca-
pable of inspiring terror. He would venture to
predict, that if the stews of the .Learned (reutle•
man were carried into effect, the sentence from the
Bench would ouly be considered as a legs! fictiosi
si—mirrl, like other lictious, would be null and of no
effect.
Mr. BJINNKTT said, the paper which the Noble
Lori) said would be {ail btfur• the counnittre,

• . •
consisted, lie believes!, of two siivisima-trof. it
It-trited (II the state or the pripients, and the niiii.ltes
of pt mons etentaispod in them, the Uttitett
Ktitgrlottl - sod next, :tit the I lite. at.tl rrgufslitui.
c )))))) ecterl with their malingruirrit.
then cespooder what the Committee bail to totpitro
"inn. They had to exa►nine the state t.l the gaols
of England, Ireland, stall Sasithuai - ►tst! what
their accommodations were, il,►u(fi,lent
Of 110 E—A IA to demi die their (anti., taint die
11110.1114 011- providing Inc the 'souther of
criminal., which were in their pow, r. They
lirsidrb, after they had trisected the•, to Isiiik
the 'treat question of local of is
the Noble Lord load said nothing, hot winch f••tut-
ed 110 light part of the ►u'iiect.-(l!tns.)-Jhev
were also imperatively capes! Nis t, examine the
fund► appropriated to the ►upport of the gaol', tit
Scodatl..-for lie had !peen itilsomed, and Indeed
when he visited the gaol. of that euuuiry Ise fool reas
son to know, that their Lad state was OAK ink to the
want of soffit:lent fund•. A or! again,thr:, vitalist those
to look to the Elate of the Irish gaols, where beady
the same difficulty exi•trd. They vv,poid next 14-,
called on to examine the reghlaitou., which were
comprked in a great number of statute., many of
them hardly liionap. It took him and a former
(.; 1111 l nutter an entire Ses►ion to teileitre into Ills
►tale of two or thiee gaols. Al a hat time then
would the labours of this Committee cease I Or
did the Noble Lord Meats to cut nut these int 'let is
of investigation I If he did, his plan w..u:sl ohly
be a voyage ol• discovery. amidst a v.iriety of diffi-
culties, from which no benefit would iesult. If,
besides those points he had meittinned, tlie Com-
mittee proceeded to inquire into the criminal laps.
instead of one Selsion, it would take an entire
Septennial Parliament to filtivls Iheir labour's.
The state of the gaols. the 'situation of
Bay, the whole system of the ti anspoi tannin
haws, demanded notice. Ili. I.cartied Friend
I(Sir J. Nlachilitosli) had given mottle tor a motto's
relative to the laws inflicting the in-natty or death.
lie (Mr. B.) bi Id propot.ethae, the WlVae the
oratomortatisio laws sliculer belstuividered. Was the
Noble Lord aware, wlo•u lie teopo.erl his innt•tnt,
that there were no lea.. him 7:3's stattiteti of Annum...l
law ?-(lltur, hear.)-As this was the Isct, lee
could see nu end to the labour, of the Committee.

Four or five gehtkuscui silting in one torrivr of a
room, and six or veven 111 tsll4lllor,
particular parts of tint sattp... eutyect, were not
likely to come tither to a speed) or a tnirect
ileci,ion. Such a proceeding was COl'Miry to
the rules of the House, as vvel :.$ iitube of
cornrow) sense. Ile under.tuotl the perbou vent

out by Government, was authoribed to itiquire,
whether a new Botany lily might not be estsbissli7
ed elsewhere, as the rtate of coloisizstitits ise hew
South Wales rendered bmitAntieut there ou potash-
mem whatoer. If it were the intention of Gorers,..
men to alter the p}stem, it would be right fur the
!louse to comidter well the expense. Perli.ips those
unfortunate persons might be krnt to placer tier rer
home, instead of toeing shipped to the other side of
the globe. 1-le might have iiii-untlerrootid the Noble
Lord on this part of the sulijecr, but certainly Ise
was not miritilten with re•spect to what he Inns heard
elsewhere, *loch wag, OA the person sent nut to
Botany Bay was to inquire whether IFOIEr usher
place might not be found to which convicts

he transported. •
Lord CAPTLEREAGII, itl explanation, mid, It was
at present a matter of deliberailon, whether' borne
new regulation should not hr rariii.tl into rfrret
with respect to the Colony of Botany t any
doubted whether that 111 fee had not nut-Crown the
propriety of transporting people thither—nod it W 3.4
debated, whether some 'flan 'oft be Ifillii.l
for relirviug the Cult fy from receivioy convicts.
1t was conternplated to send them to a place nearer
home, which could he done at ahe eximme.
Mr. W. WYNN felt as strongly as the film. Gen-
tleman (Mr. licit ett) that this inquiry could not
be got through in any reasoolible time. Out lie had
a %till stronger objection to it, nu the sore of
justice. He objected to the appointment of a Com-
mittee to whom was referred 00 vet y lacgr u scope
of inquiry. This objection uppliefl 0;111 tooth
greater force whim the object* of uttiuity were not
specified, when no special tlirectom was giveif slit
the subject. He thooglit it was one of the worst
practices of modal. day a, to refer to the Cumhitht.
Liall of Committers that which ought to be per-
fisrmed by the House itsrlf.l—(tiece, hear.) —Ti,e
Noble Lord admitted it 'night be expedient, that
the ddleuent branclie* of it.tlutry should be gifirig
on simultaneously—that the C iiiii muter should
partite itself Milo different subdi‘isions, collect all
the information on various —anti bring it
into one focus. Ile agreed in tile prol.riety of this
course, but he would have 11. e House to appoint
those different Sub•Committie.. it wits their fluty.
—(Near, hear.)—Nothing, he conceived, offs at-
tended with worse effects, than appointing Com-
mitters to examine into very extrusive subjrcis.
They might propose regulations tfilh telef trice- to
them, but they always left enough behind, to fir' in
all excuse to the House fur appointing them St spiels
after Session. While they continued to existei.ce,
they prevented individual, ,probers from proitiiiiii.l4
minims; of the subj. eta they were appoint(
to inquire into. If a Nltniber did intrinime
a motion touching ou the subjects of their it.-
, (limy, he wag immediately called to accoulit If t
" interfering with the labiates of the Co 000000
In his opinion. this question ought to lie discussed
in a Committee of the thole Howse, since thew
was not a single Member ,whose experiein e or lA,-
servation witwld out doable hots to form an opitilnit
on it. Ile conceived it was ilium itupossible ft.!.
°lie Committee, tyro in the course of au entire
Parliament, to finish the liminess about to he re-
ferred to that fur whir* the Noble Lord had moved.
—(Hear.)—He doubted very much whethe r tire
inol 00000 of which his Learned Potent, hail got en 11111
lice fur tomorrow, was a correct tote. He thought
even the subject of the laws inflicting the prosier
of death, ought to be considered LI a Committee
of the whole Howie. it td.n was, matter of opinion,
on which every Mwasber .f that House load wone
degree of experience. Tins Committee mould be
called an to inquire into the whole statutes at large.
The subject was not exprevalyreterred to 'bens, nor,
ceom the words of the motion they woofs! Musca-
t cainelude, that their intitivrydara: tome-JO:Hs
that far. Maify subjects, lie b. 1 ve , would! Arr
flume Men rr,,i
,it Attic,
rt.st icuet f•.+4
'Prove bed becu aware of their g