The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1825-11-21 00:00:00

CATHOLIC MEETING.

[ From the Dublin Freeman's JouMtaLl
On Wednesday last, pursuant to a published requisition. a meeting
of Catholic Gentlemen was held in the Catholic Rooms, ilurgh-
qua. •
CURT RUSSELL, Esq. of the County Louth, was called to
the Chalr.

31r. O'GORMAN, Secretary to the Catholics of Ireland. was
about tn'read the proceedings of the late Catholic :fleeting, when
Mr. O'CONNELL rose and observed, that there was no connexion,
in fact or truth,. between the present Catholic meeting and those
held on any former occasion. The meeting then hssembled was
held in pursuance of a district requisition, and it was the object
and policy of the Catholic Gentlemen, that there should be no
connexion whatever between the weekly meetings, and therefore it
would he inconsistent and irregular to read at the present meeting,
any report of what occurred at any former one.
Mr. O'Gon sta is was under an impression that a portion of the
business for the present meeting was arranged in the meeting last
Wednesday. There were, he thought, some notices of motions.
Here the Rev. Mr. L'Estange, Mr. O'Connell. Mr. Finn, Mr.
Conway, and: some gentlemen of the Press. stated that there were
not any notices of motions given on the last day, and that if ally
appeared on the book, it must be owing to some error and mis-
apprehension. _

Mr. O'Goawaw examined the book. and found it was the pro.
credingx of a Committee he had been reading, which led him into
the error.

Mr. OTotINT:r.r. then rose and said. that it should by the first
ditty of the Catholics, in their renewed efforts for emancipation. to
be perfectly nareful that they did not violate any existing law, hut
would always how to it, however penal, with the dutiful submission
of faithful subject.: but, in order thott their obedience should be
both rational and limited to the extent of the law, it would lie ne-
cessary to understand what the law really was, that it should be
familiarised to the eyes of every Catholic that as no infraction
of the law is intended by design, so they shall not he led into it by
accident. With that view a few individuals undertonk an investi-
gation of the existing state of the law. at*rtspPet, political public
meetings In Ireland, with the Intention or publiNhing, and putting
into cietulation, their opinion on the subject. The burden of the
labour had certainly fallen upon hi. (Mr. O'C.'s) shoulders. He
hail, accordingly, endeavoured to fulfil his duty, and he would read
for the meeting a document containing his own views on the Ruh_
jest, which had been confirmed by the sanction and approval of his
friends. The Learned Gentleman then proceeded to read a docu-
ment, of which the following is a copy

REPORT.
The law, as applicable to the subject before us, is distinguish.
able into the provisions of the common law, and the enactments of.
the statute law.

By the common law all meetings for the specified purposes were
perfectly legal, pmvided they were peaceable. Thu there should
he no actual breach or the peace, nor anything which a rational
and firm man could josh, construe into a manifest tendency to a
breach of the peace. was all that the common law required as a
limit to the otherwise unrestricted and universal right of holding
such meetings. '
As common law, it was immaterial whether such meetings were
held in the open air, or within the walls of any building, all
that was required was that each meeting should be in its nature
peaceable.
ft is manifest, therefore, that the common law did not prohibit
but in its spirit encouraged the holding of select or delegated meet-
ings. In an assembly of select or delegated persons there ought to
he, on the ore hand, much more of deliberative wisdom and calm
consideration than could possibly be found in large assetnblagts of
penplt. On the other hand, there must necessarily be more danger
of riots, tumults, and breaches of the peace, in the greater than in
the smaller assemblies. The common law, therefore, gave a pre-
ference, if we may use the expression, to select meeting. of a de-
legated or chosen few, to the casual and more precarious composi-
tion of popular meetings.
We conceive that the common law is not altered at present in
this respect in England. The English enjoy the right of discuss.
ing their grievances by a select and chosen few, and are not cons-
pellet' to appeal to the first elements of society whenever they have '
a serious charge of public complaint.
Not so the unhappy Irish. The privileges of bringing their
complaints before the proper tribunals, in that solemn and deli-
berate way most conducive to success, has long been denied the
Irish people.
So long ago as the year 1793, an Act was introduced into the
Irish Parliament. It was introduced into Parliament under the
sanction of the late Earl of Clue—a man who combined with great
personal activity the moot rancorous animosity to his Catholic
countrymen. 3he Act is entitled "An Act to prevent the Elec-
tion or Appointment of Unlawful Assemblies, under the pretence
of preparing or presenting petitions to his Majesty or to Patna.
mint.' That Act prohibits the electing or appointing any persons
Ito represent any place, or any portion of the people, under the,
" pretence of petitioning" for any alteration If the law.
It must be observed, that Lord Clare, violent as he certainly was
in hi. hostility to the political rights of the Irish people, dtd not
venture to gn the length of boldly enacting that such elections or
Iselections should be illegal, if made for the purpose of petitioning
the' Legislature.
No. That was a length which even Lord Clare and the Govern.
ment would not go at that time, althougiresesiliod at some attempts
vowdeln England and Scotland, about that period, to hold assem-
' blies of delegates, with alleged revolutionary views. Terror and
hate combined did not carry the letter of the law further than to
prohibit the selection of delegates under the pretence of preparing
petitions, he. •
But what the Legislature did not do, subsequent judicial con.
struction has done. No man unimbued with the monstrous falls-
des which sometimes disgrace our legal intendment' could ever
have supposed that, in a penal and restrictive Act any Court could
for a moment tolerate the notion that pretence and purpose were
synonimons. But, behold, whilst Alr.Saurin ruled this county as
Attorney-General, and whilst Chief Justice Downes..(he has since
been made a Lord) was Chief Justice of the Court of King's
Bench in Ireland, they solemnly decided that pretence does really
and truly mean purpose, and that when an act is done under
some particular pretence, it is in truth dune for that identical
purpose.
The statute law, thus enacted and thus construed.—a constriction
against which we beg leave respectfully, but strongly to protest—
I deprived the Catholics of Ireland of the power of making any
selection of those to whom they would intrust the conduct of their
cause. And it left our deliberations subject to all the evils inci-
dent to the transitory ebullition of popular and unconnected as.
semblies.

To remedy this evil, the Catholic Association was invented. It
could not avoid all the advantages which the statute of 1783. intr-
oduced ; hut it removed some, and mitigated all, and had it been
permitted to pursue its peaceable and constitutional course, it
would soon have borne down all the opposition which bigotry re.
sorts to, and it would have combined almost all the Protestants and
Catholics of Ireland for the promotion of civil and religious liberty,
and the promotion of peace, order, and good-will amongst all
classes of Christians.

In the midst of career of utility—but not until after it had
principally contributed to tranquillize Ireland, was the Catholic
Aesociation suppressed; and alas I we owe this suppression rather
to those who call themselves our friends than to the frank and un-
disguised hostility of our enemies.
We consider the law for the suppression of the Catholic Anode.
tion as the greatest injury and insult that Catholic people have ever
sustained. For every other enactment, however perfidious or atro-
cious, there were found some plausible though delusive pretexts.
For this nothing could be discovered but the example of the un-
constitutional law of 1793. and some idle and weak pretences, to
influence the conduct of mere children. We respectfully recom-
mend to the Irish people to bear in deep and lasting recollection
I the evil produced by that statute, and to let that recollection
I stimulate them never to relax their constitutional and legal exer.
tions, but to use none other to procure the repeal of that Act.
The most unconstitutional statute is plain and explicit in its
provision.. It however is a legislative declaration that the decision
of the King's Bench in Ireland, under Chief Justice, now Lord
Downes, was untenable and unfounded—for it prohibits meeting,
in express words, either under the pretence or for the purpose of
petitioning Parliament. If pretence and purpose are synonimons
111 law, as Judge, now Lord, Downes gravely !decided, this
statute would not have resorted to the legal tautology of using both
words to express only the same idea, as such use naturally implies
that these different words do really expms different ideas. This
legislative condemnation of the doctrine of 3lr. Saurin, confirmed
as it was by the Court of King's Bench, affords, however, but a
tardy and melancholy consolation to the Catholics, who are the
living victims of the former unfounded and irrational decision,
and also of the present unconstitutional and oppressive statute.
The law in Ireland, with respect to public meetings, is regulated
by these two statutes. The first—the Act of )793, technically
deseribetPas the 3.1c1 Gen. 111. chop. 20. The second is the Act of
last Session, called the 6th of (leo IV. chap. 4. The latter is the
Act to suppress the Catholic Association.
B 7 the first of these statutes, the only things prohibited are—
First—The electiqn or selection of delegates or representatives
under the pretence of petitioning the King or Parliament.
Secondly—The accepting of the office of delegate or representa-
tive, to act under any such pretence.
Thirdly—The acting as such delegate or representative, if elected,
or chosen with that view, or assuming to be a delegate or represen-
tative, although not elected or chosen in point of fact.
Thus stood the law, until lately, with the addition made to it
by the Court of King's Bench ; namely, that pretence meant pur-
pose ; so that the Catholics were precluded, by the statute and su-
perinduced construction, to desist from seeking for redress from the
Legislature, through the instrumentality of any selected or dele-
gated body.
The second statute has added the following prohibitions :-
Ist. It prevents any society or body of persons, meeting either
under the pretence or for the purpose of petitioning the Legislature,
to continue their sittings for more titan fourteen days.

2dly. It prohibits any such society, or body of persons, to appoint
any Committee, Secretary, or Treasurer, or other officer whatso-
ever, to continue fri office trots than fourteen days.

Illy. It prohibits any such society, or body, to appoint any
Committee, Treasurer, Collector, or other person, to collect, levy,
or receive, any contributions from his Majesty's subjects.
- • • - • -

4thly. It prohibits any such meeting to appoint any Committee,
or seloct body, in the whole, or in part of any former committee,
or select body, nominated within the preceding six months, by any
meeting, which would he, in itself, an illegal assembly if continued
for snore than fourteen days ; or to appoint any Secretary or
other officsir appointed by any such meeting sithin the preceding
5iL months.

6thly. It prohibits all societies connected with other societies 1.. y.
separate branches or divisions.
It prohibits all societies in which any oath or declaration,
not required by law, is taken ; and from which any persons erg
in anywise excluded because of their professing any [arm of faitll
allowed or tolerated by law.
Such is, as far as we are able to ascertain. the present state of thd
law in Ireland on the subject before us ; It will be perstived at
once, that however mischievous and unconstitutional thin late ea,
tote may be in other respects, it does manifestly and beyonticontraf.
diction, by the prohibitions Mentioned under the tlth and 6th heads,
render all Orange Lodges illegal, and makes it an indictable Offence
be an Orangeman.
It is, upon the whole. obvious. that to constitute a crirffelindh't
the first statute, that of 1793, election or selection, or the acting
as an elected person or delegate, is necessary* nothing else's prong:
bited by that statute.
It is also obvlces, that to constitute a crime under the seennd
statute, so far all the Catholics are concerned, there must bee con-
tinuation beyond fourteen days, of some Society, or Committee, o!!
officer.
It is in the continuation beyond fourteen daft that the grime is
made to consist ; if there be no continuation beyond fdurtein days;
there is nothing to bring any society or meeting withtn the pro:
visions of this statute.
It follows conclusively, that there may beat many separate and
distinct meetings had as any persons may choose to call god bold ;
if they are separate and distinct, and have no link of conheition
by adjournment, er Committee, or officer, or otherwise, they ar6
perfectly legal.
Continuan:e of any meeting or society held httspeeilled purposes
is the crime; repetition of meeting, stripped of any link of' connec-
tion. is still quite illegal.
It is considered that it would be advisable, in case separate and
distinct meetings are called, not to appoint any person as chairman
who has been in the Clair of any other meeting for the purposes
above specified, for the six months next preceding.
There is no direct prohibition in the statute against therepeition
of the same chairman within six months, but a forced and violent
construction of the statute may perhaps extend the Act so fat, and lt
is better to keep perfectly clear of giving any pretence to allege that
the law has been violated. The Cathnlics• should, in every respect
obey the provisions of the law, whilst they anxiously and zea-
lously endeavour by constitutional means to procure the repeal of
every thing 'oppressive in that law.
It appears to us, free front all controversy, that the New Cetho-
lic Association does not come within the prohibitions of thjs statute
-and that it can continue its sittings and renew its officers and
Committees without any possibility of impeachmest.
There only remains fee us t 6 observe, that the 6th George 111,
Chap. fah, has expired. it was the one of the six Acts which
cloned the reign of George 111. that rendered illegal certain assem-
blies whet, money was taken fur admission. It 'foes indeed ap-
pear plain that such meetings as the Catholic, hold did not come
within that Act at all—but that at present is quite a superfluous
quesitton, because the Act having expired with the last day of the
last Session of Parliament, it is now legal to recelife money for
admission to any assembly.
As the lair. therefore., prevents the taking of money for admis-
sion to public meetings, it appears that there can be flOsbetter C.r
mote certain method found to keep any meetings sepatateanddia.-
tinct from each other than to make the power to attend each meet-
ing depend on the payment of a sum of money, gis tog a right le.
attend for one day. and no longer. By this tue.itai the individuals
who may Attend public meetings cannot be called delegates or re-
presentatives ; they arc nut chosen or :elected by ally person. They
meetings themselves cannot be held to be contiguous. because a
separate and diitinct right to attend each Meeting must be acquired
for that meeting alone ; and he who attends one meeting will not
thereby acquire any species of right to attend soother. The coca
tinuation, therefore, of each meeting will be but ohe day ; there
will be no society or continued assembly to come, by any posaible
construction, within thp recent statute. But it is still permitted to
hold, and as repeatedly and is frequently as the Catholics tinny
please. separate, distinct, and unconnected meetings.
It is our duty to obey the law ; but It is also our sacra duty to
devise and act upon sit legal moans left us to rise superior to thc
vexatious provisions of statutes calculated to crush oir first hopes,
and retard our peaceful but unextinguishable determination to
procure freedom of conscience and justice for our native laud.
DANIEL ,Chairman.
The reading of this Report was accompanied and dillowed by re-
peated cheers !
Mr. O'Oon MAN said, the document could not be received as a
Report from shy Committee.
Mr. &Cow NELL did not intend it as such, but as a aubstan•
five document.

Mt. CONWAY moved, and Mr. HOARE seconded a resolution.
approving of the advice and opinion conveyed by the document read
by Mr. O'Connell.
The motion passed nett. eon.
Mr. O'Cosrez Lt. said, that in preparing thedoeurnent just teal,
he had to consider one subject, that rendered another painful. He
alluded to the respectable and learned gentleman who acts as Seen.
tary to the Catholic meetings: it became necessary sacernii,
whether his appearing in that capacity at repented meetings, was
legal or otherwise; and he was convinced. after the most. mature
consideration, that Alr. O'Gorman's repeatedly officiating- pas per.
' lectly legal • fur he was not appointed to the offer by,cha severe!
meeting!, but, having been paid the well-deneved compliant' ce
nominating him at the aggregate meetings as .tereetart els the Ca-
tholics of Ireland, that compliment is followed up its aU suisseep:z:
minor meetings, by accepting of his volunteer services ax•their
cretary ; and as it is upon that understanding that Mr. O'Bormrs
officiates at Catholic meetings, his presence is perfectly legal.
Mr. O'CionleAN said, he was quite scare that e had po other
title to appear as Secretary to the Catholic Meetings that of
courtesy ; which was extended to him by gentlemen permitting bins
to give his volunteer services in the capacity of Secretary to the
meeting.
Mr. LUKE PLUNKETT thought it the safest mullet tottiquest
of Mr. O'Gorman to report the proceedings of the meeting.
Alr. O'Costiegt.t. differed with great respect from his learned
brother barrister, Mr. Plunkett.
Mr. O'Costxm.t. said there was another subject of vital import
to which he requested permission to call the attention of the nice:-
ing. Had the collection of the Catholic Rent been permitted to
continue until now. there would have been Fifty Thousand Pounds
in hand, and if they were once in possession of that sum, heliad no
doubt,but emancipation wc uld soon follow. TI ley hactst present Th,r,
teen Thousand Pounds principal, and it was his opinion, that notht
beyond the interest should be extracted front that amount, whittt
ought be preserved solely for political purposes, as there will Le a
fund sufficient for charitable purposes created by the New Assosi-
ation. But he was not content with thirteen thousand ?minds.
There had been lately a kind of storm raised through Lnglatd
and this country, and the political atmosphere was not yet ECT'
fectly tranquil ; but when the tempest shall subside (and fie 'soul t
be foremost in setting an example of good temper and forbear.
:wee), the spirit of liberality evinced last year by the Plotestatts
would again coalesce with Catholic energy ; which thought may
sleep is not dead, and requires no stentorian voice to rouse it into
action ; for he thought he himself possessed the power of exerting
it. The Learned Gentleman said he could not all for the samttinn.
or authority of any public meeting or body; but there was no prohi-
bition to our individually appointing peoons to collect " the
To succeed in the collection, it will be necessary to make it Appel:.
that the objects for which the Rent shall be collected are diitinte•
rested, pure, and useful : anti although the late Catholic Assoc:a.
don had one of the most efficient, correct, and talented aecefs,
whose accounts were kept (hear, hear) ; and notwithstanding those
accounts were audited and published under the confirmation, and
sanction of two Protestant and one Catholic merchant, of the IlVst
eminence and character, yet it was asserted some few days 'line in
a newspaper, that It was not known what had become of the Caine.
lie Rent ; therefore it would be incumbent on the individual col-
lecting the Rent, that its receipt and expenditure should be ec•
accurately accounted for, that neither ignorance not malice could
affect to be unacquainted with it. If he could not induce tattle
individual to undertake the collection of the Rent beton a fort-
night, he would himself assume the duty, and It should not be bit
fault if there was not a treasury for the Irish people equal to their
wanta.—(Cheers ) That a portion of the Catholic Rent, expesidad
on twelve prosecutions,. had effected great and obvious good, could
not be controverted ; and it was no small prospect of Irish. -
quillity, that not even the power and master hand of Orange loth-
enee, applying all the stimulants of York influence. had been able
to excite thespirit of resentment in the Irish peasantry, nor the re-
newal of outrage amongst the Irish Orangemen.

THE RENT.
Mr. DOWP.T. O'Retat.r was quite averse to any project t::.
might have the effect of diverting the funds of the New I.:Athol:I:
Association from the glorious purpose of emancipation and the pre.
servation of the Catholic religion.
Sir E. 8EL7.74W, who was received with constelerableapp:ausee
suggested, as smatter of pniderice. that some opiniona of etniustet
lawyers, not interested in the matter, should he obtained.
Mr. O'Cort woo said, that, as the Parliamentary Session *ill
approaching, they should not fritter away time. her was no per.
son who would more regret or deprecate any violation of the hese
than he would, but die Association ran no risk by the colle.:•
non of the Rent, as Mr. O'Connell was prepared to take the re-
sponsibility upon himself, and as there could be no gewlernar
more competent to the undertaking; he wished Mr. O'Connell
every success.
LEINSTER MEETING.

It was resolved, that a meeting of Catholic stecreesnee of erre.
tics im Leinster, now in town, should be held at the Ciiiholss
Rooms, on Friday next (to-morrow).

FOURTEEN DAYS SITTINGS.

Mr. O'Cox at ELL now addressed the Meeting, and said that b's
pitied the Irishman whose hear did not warm at the anticipation
of the Catholic Aisociation meeting for fourteen day. in Janw
ary next, when they would wesemble for all the purpoalar
which they originally inet.—(Cheers, and hear, bear.) Theicait-
tings would commence at ten, and hold till five o'clock each day,
aad the close of their session slioakl be celebrated by a mend na-
tional dinner. to which the sixty-nine Prep and the Bishop" of
Norwich and Rochemer should be ievited; be tbereforc lurnenett
to recommend the of January next, for the re-assembling of
the Catholic Association.
Agreed to.
• ' ' •

Mr. Sat.tt, observed, that it was a matter of consideration whe-
ther measures should not be taken to carry into effect, on the meet.
ing of the Irish Catholic Association, the union so anxiously de.
sired by the English Association. The Duke of Norfolk would
enter warmly into the arrangements. Mr. Sherd said he stunt re.
sume the subject on the next day of meeting. • -
Alter thanks to the Chairman the Meeti• g broke up. •