The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1824-03-10 00:00:00

MOUSE OF COMMONS, TUESDAY, MARCH 9.

FIRST
Mr. Bien t. presented some Returns from the Fint Fruits
and Tenths Wice.

DUTY ON COAIR.

31r. IVA Llatl: presented ap;tit*tunirCsa the alto printers
of Antrim, against the duty on coals.--4)tdered w lie on the table.

SLAVE TRADE.
Sir W. INMLBV presented a petition from the inhabitants of
SPilarit, in Lincolnshire, against the Slave Trade.--Ordered to he
on the table.

Mr. L. KECK prosenteil a petition from Leicester against the
Slave Trade.—lhilered to lie on the Table.
11:113I 111 NA Tit IN LAWS.
Mr. J. MARTIN presentell a petition from the artilarl of
Tewkesbury against the C bination laws—Ordered to lie on
the table.

SALMON FISHERIES.
Mr. LINDSAY prowilittl a petition from Dundee and Cupar
against Salmon Fiblieriek.—(Srderell to lie on the table.

EXCISE LICENCES.

Mr. C. DUNIDA ted a petition from Newbury against
Excise bieenecs.-1 eyed to lie on the table.

Mr. I.IIiNO presented a petition from lireinford against the Ex-
cise Licences.—Laid on the table.
POST OFFICE PACKETS.
.. .

Sir 11. P.IRNELL presented a petition from Dublin relating to
the Steam Packets—Laid on the gaVe.

WINDOW TAX.

Mr. BYNG presented 111 petition from the with of St. An.
drew, Holborn, against the Window Tex.—Laid On the table.

PROBATE ON W I 1..1.:4.:

111 r. JA MES pre; CntiviTt iietitinnfrinl::llolton, in Liverpool,
against the Duties on Probate of %Yak—Laid on the table.
CLERGY.
. . _ .

Mr. GRATTAN, in rising to present a petition from the Irish
Catholic Clergy, stated, that he must beg the attention of the
House for a few moments, as the subject of the petition which he
then held in his hand was one of momentous importance; it was
from the Bishops and Clergy of the Roman Catholic persuasion
in Ireland, and bore the names of the Irieh Primate, Dr. Doyle,
and Dr. Murray : and he felt convinced that the signatures of such
eminent persons would ensure a respectful attention to the petition.
It complained, chiefly, that the disposal of the funds which were
annually voted for the dissemination of education in Ireland was
exclusively confined to members of the Protestant Church, and that
if Catholic children were sent to the schools which these funds
went to establish, they had to encounter all the dangers of prose-
lytism; and the petitioners, therefore, thought it but Just, consider.
ing the immense Catholic population of Ireland, that the Catholic
Clergy should hare some control over the management of the fund.
Another ground of compliant was the disbursement of what was
called the Lord Lieutenant's hind; and he (Mr. Grattan) could
state, from his own knowledge, that this fund was most improperly
appropriated, an it was well known that if the Protestant Minister
was at ajl piqued or dissatisfied, he might come in and turn out the
schoolmaster ; and such a power must naturally excite the greatest
jealousy. He therefore trusted that the Bight Honourable Serre-
tare for Ireland would turn his attention to this matter. His lion.
, Friend, tic Member for ‘Vererford, had moved for papers connected
with this subject, and then the matter might undergo a full and
satisfactory discussion.
Mr. GOULBURN consoled with the Honourable Gentlenian,
that a more convenient opportunity would be affertled for the con.
sideration of this question, when the papers which the Honourable
Baronet had moved for should be produced, lie certainly should
oppose the reception of this petition, as its sole purpose was to ask
of that House to place a separate fund at the disposal of the Ca-
tholic clergy, for the education of the children of Catholics. It
was the solemn deliberate opinion of Parliament, express more
than on one occasion, that the best mode of uniting Ireland was by
educating together the children of both faiths, and not by having
separate funds for separate schools. It was nicer expedient that
the scholastic establishment should be united ; and the only 'vane.
tion that had been put upon those schools was, that the Bible
should be read without note or comment. It is not even pretended
that the association has ever withheld education from Catholic
children, or that there has been any unfairness or partiality. There
is, therefore, no ground for Parliament being called on to depart
from the system which had been so long eetabliehed : but when the
subject came fairly under discussion, which it would shortly do, he
ehoeld be prepared to argue it fully.
Sir J. NEW PORT stated, that so long ago as last June he had
moved for the papery which had been so often alluded to, thinking
that ample time would thereby have beet' allowed for a return
being made by the commencement of the present Session. Again
on the nth of February he had been compelled to veneer his motion,
and from some observations that had fallen from him respecting
I his tinnier motion, he received a letter from one of the departments
whose business it was to furnish the returns, that no blame was
attributable to that department, because it had received no intitna.
tioa of his motion till the month of February; he thought, there-
fore, that the organs by whom the orders of that House ought to
beeommunicated-wcre to blame. With regard to the petition before
than, lie cc:- aialy lamented that it had been presented, as he
thought it out of time; yet it was notorious that no one member
of the Catholic body was admitted into the management of the
fund. It was his intention to move that the subject should be re-
ferred to a Committee of that House, who might devise some aye-,
Wm for the united education of the Catholic and Protestant. He
certainly did conceive that this was practicable •; but he repeated,
G that in the control of the funds oreminent ought to admit both
parties. lle begged pardon of the House for trespassing on their
attention before the regular discureion of the question.
Mr. DAWSON void that he should take two preliminary objec-
tions toehe receisiseg of the wrathy : is the first place, it was de-
scribed as proceeding from the Ithlllops of Ireland 'as a corporate
body, which they had bever been acknowledged to be; and, in the
next place, it was asking fora grant of money; but even were he
inclined to waive these objections, lie should urge that the excel-
lence of the present system of education in Ireland was proved by
the benefits it conferred, as knowledge was increasing not only
among Proteeta.nce but also among Moline. If gentlemen would
take the trouble to read the Reports en this subject, they would
find that in 1773 there were but eight Ischoobs in Ireland, and that
in 1821 there were 1,122, and that the majority of these schools
were in the west and south-west parts of the country, in the very
centre of the great Catholic population.
Mr. J. 5311 I'll, was of "motion that nothing would conduce so
much to the tnuiqulllity of Ireland as extending throughout it
the benefits of education ; for he was fully assured, that if that
country was suffered to go on much longer in its present state, it
would be for ever lost to this country. To diffuse education among
all indiscriirinately who had not the means of procuring it, was the
only way to save it.
Mr. I'LUNKETT said the petition was entitled to all the
consideration that House could bestow on it. With regard to
the objection taken to the petition by his Honourable Friend be-
hind hum (Mr. Dawson) be must beg leave to correct him ; it did
not proless to emanate front a corporate body, but it VOA entitled
as a petition front the Roman Catholic Bishops and Clergy of Ire-
land, and he must tell hit Honourable Friend that they were to all
intents and purposes Christian Bishops—they had the power of
Ordination, anti if it should so happen that any one of three
Bishops should secede from the faith of the Church of Rome and
embrace Protestantism, he would be ipso.fia-go a l'rotestant Be hop ;
he therefore thought that that argument failed completely. Sonic
thought that education might proceed on a moral basis, independent
of religion : this was a most mischievous and a most absurd
doctrine; religious and moral education should always wnrk con-
currently. There were many points in the petition to which he most
cheerfully assented ; and there were certainly Wine in which he
could not concur; but he would not oppose its bring laid on the
table. . . . .

A It E RC ROM IIY was convinced that the inetitution of these
schools bad been productive to Ireland of the greatest and most es-
sential benefit, he lamented very much that this petition had
been presented, 114 it was only calculated to give a tone to the
adverse partiet on the great question, without working any good.
Mr. ‘'ESET FITZOI3I.II.I).—If his Honourable Friend
looked to the repeats of the Kildareotreet school, he would
find that in two counties in the South of Ireland, where the
population was, as to its peasantry, exclusively Catholic, the
increase of schools had been very considerable. In these two
counties, Cork and Limerick, in libel, there were but three
schools ; and at present there were twenty-three (hear): and he
had received lately an application front two Catholic priests, re.
questing that he would assist them in the establishment of one of
these schools. Now, had they suspected that a proselytising char
meter belonged to that establishment, it was not to be supposes!—
' it was clearly against their duty, to apply for loch a school as they
had solicited. These fact• • more titangeneral volumes of general as-
sertion on th• other aide of question. The object of the Kil-
daze-street Assesenesissi eras, to beat out of the field the pernicious
publications which had formerly been circulated by other istablish-
ments. Ile admitted that no system of education could succeed in
Ireland, that did not receive the support of both the Protestant and
Catholic community. (Hear.) lie certainly felt that any inquiry
on this subject ought to be most full and ample, ifan Inquiry was
instituted. Ile could assure the Siouan, that from his own personal
experience, he know that in that porton of Ireland where the popu-
lation was ?principally Catholic, the version of the Bible approved
and authorised by the Catholic church, was given to the children.
These remarks he felt it his duty to wake, in • spirit of perfect sin-
cerity, and with every wish for the univeraul diffusion of knowledge.
Mr. 1). BROWNE believed that the Kildare-street Association
had done much good in Ireland, but be believed they had not
effected one-tenth portion of the good they might have wean-
plashed haul they not made it a rime lea woe that the Bil.le. without
note and comment, should be read as an elementary book In the
schools of 'reined. Now was the Church of Rome singular in the
wish that such a work should not be read, seeing that it might be
wrested by the people to their own ruin ? No; that opinion they
entertain' din common with one of the most ilietinguieheil Prclates
of the Church of Eiocland, the Bishop of Peterborough.
Mr. Secretary PEEI. regretted that his lion. Friend who had
spoken last should have mixed up topics not necessarily connected
with this question. There appeared to him two great principles to
which it was necessary to attend in the education of the poor of
Ireland : the first was to unite, as far es possible, the Protestant
and Catholic co: 1111 l unity in one common and harmonious system
of education. (Ilene) Unless that objet, was accontplielted, edu-
cation, instead of being a blessing, became a new source of dieeon-
tent and dissaiiefuetion. The second principle to be observed was
the prormation of the people from any attempt, through the me-
dium of education, from a proselytising 'quern. They should guard
the people from even the suspicion of such an attempt, since that
suspicion would most effectually interfere with the beet blessings of
education. They wculd sieve with constant jealousy every offered
kindness, and fancy in the kindness itself a new mine to entrap and
subvert them. It the cherished prejudices of a petiole were once
turned against the means by which you sought to enlighten them,
then it would come to pass that improvement wes with them at its
termination. ii'uch was the principle upon which the Kildare-street
Association hail been established; and if it diverged front the ob-
bcts to which it was directed, it would become, instead of a national
blessing, the very origin of discord, and the active fomenter of
party feeling and religious animosity.
Mr C. ORA NT said, that although he did not agree in every
particular with the plan pursued by the Kildare-street Association,
he felt it his duty to state, that having, when in an official capacity
in Ireland, examined into the alleged charge of proselytism on the
past of the members of that Asteretation, he was satisfied that it was

totally unfounded. He was convinced ton, that in the liberality fl
that Association they departed f the strict letter of the Act of
Parliament, and permitted the Roman Catholic version of the
Scriptures to be read in schools.
The petition was then read.
On moving that it should be printed,
Mr. fiRATTA N took the opportunity of saying that he had
presented the petition on account of ita pressing importance, and'
he thought that the discussion produced upon it was not likely to
interfere with any motion of the R igl.t lion. Baronet (Sir J. New-
port). iVith respect to the Lord Lieutenant's Fund. as it was
ternosl, it was must partially administered. He knew this of his
own knowledge; he had applied fur a part of it with the view of
assisting iii the establishment of a school, and in looking over the
conveyance he found that it was granted to the ministers and church-
wardens of the parish. He admitted that he subsequently received
permission to alter it as he might think proper; but the very cir-
cumstance was in itself sufficient to shew the manner in which that
.fund was administered.

The petition war then ordered robe trinted.
NEW WRIT FOR L% ItEGI.

Colonel tiill'OLlnoretifOr ;ites writ for the Borough of
Lyme Regis, in the room of the Marquis of Titddeld decrased—
Ordered.

EDUCATION IN IRELAND.

Sir J. NEWPORT iiav;;;iicelhi;il;;;;;;li.on a future day,
move fora Committee to inquire into the best mode of communi-
cating the benefits of education to all chase" of the people of
Ireland.