The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1810-04-13 00:00:00

CENSI,RE OF THE HOARD OF ORDNANCE.

Mr. Cs rcitsre said, he would wave one of the
motions which he intended to submit to the House.
He could at present Moline niniseli to that respect-
ing the securities of Mr. Hunt ; cad, on Mouday.
in consequence of the view he had taken of the
circumstances 'bending that Gentleman's con-
duct, inOke his expulsion from that House. With
respect to the case under the present consideration,
what he had to say lay within a very narrow com-
pass. The principles were so obvious. and co re-
coguised, that there could be no possible negative
to his proposition. The ease related to a Board
which had been guilty of a cioleut omission of duty,
by which the public lost ten thousairi pounds.
There was no excuse, no palliation for this wilful
breach of dety.• When Mr. Hoot entered upon
his second treasurership, it appeared that no secu-
rity had beep given for h•in to the moment at
which he had sheconded with the public money, to
the amount of 93,2241. ; it was imitecessary to met).
tioa what be supported was most generally under-
weed, that that Master-Genend ought to have had
such securities as were deemed necessary by the
Treasurer. He wool relate to the House the steps
which had been taken by the Board. with respect to
those securities, so uccetsury to he demanded. There
was ou the table a letter loon Mr. Crewe, the Secre.
ley of the Ordnance Board, to Mr. Hunt, requiring
his securities. dated July 27, 1807. This letter
was written under the direction of that Board. and
it apjwared that no answer was returoed ; sad it
was evident that no further method* of attaining
such securities were ever adopted. This conduct
he locked upon is a mast gross neglect of duty,
and ju.tly deserving the reprehemiiiiii of the House;
censure must be passed snots it, awl ito alternative
existed. It would be cations to hear ally Gen-
tleaiiiii on the opposite side attempt a defence or
jostification, ass such an effort would not only be
ingenious. but laughable. What could be said in
inttigatioo of a disgraceful punishment upon those
violators of public duty'? It wee well known that
the. Officers of the 01.4;V:sive were highly paid,
were superabunda.itly compensated for their la-
bours, and there was no pressor", of Int•iness to
countenance such a system of iieglect. %Vino he
had stated were u•wientradicteit &aid uncontrolict-
able facts. He cum:toiled by moving the ful:owiug

lot. Reslolved--That it appears I. this House that Joseph
Hest, Fan. Member of the, Moose, has Irma twice Tres.
surer of Hie Majesty's Board of ordissoce ; that he was
nearly eighteen etawlha in tint office, on his first appoint-
meat is mini, before any security ass obtained; sad
on his second sptioistment. is 1497, it is sot recunled iu
the Ordnance Deparhsteut that any recto ity whatsoever was
'vett by his.
•d. That it appears to this (louse, there is a balestre of
93, *I. against the said Joseph Haut, Esi. as late Treasurer
of I to Ordnance.

ad. That it appears to this HMIS', the Master-General
of His 3tijesty's firituatice is directed in the orixioul in-
set retie's* of king Charles the Seemed, under which be sod
the Sunni now set, to take fruns the Treasurer, upon his
First menace ise the execution of his place, security to such
as Raman' as he easy judge accessary, sad as shall be ap-
posed of try the Treasury.
4th. That it awing to this House, the security taken in
the Ant 'Lessor, rship ofJosepls limit, Esq nearly righters
Months after his (virtue& as the exectitios of his place, was
10,0001.

Mb. That it appears to this House uo security was takes
ou the lemma! appointment of ',Meal Haut, Esq.
6th. That it is the opanion of this House' the Master-
Gesseral of the Board of Ordamice aas been gushy of s
hermit of the instructions under which they act, soul by
which they Insight to be fumed, is neglecting to take Inca.
city from Josrph Haat, Esq. Membrr of this House ; and
is respoosible sad censurable fur ibis otaismon of
duty, which, from the slate of the balances optima the said
Joseph Hoot, Esq. has occasioned a Isms of to,uoul. to the
. _ _

Mr. Amstar Cooren could not think the Ord-
nance Board by any means deserving of the cen-
sure of that House. in all Boards where public
business was carried on, it was impassible that those
who had the weight of the collective business of
the nation should be responsible for the conduct of
en individual, or for any oversight wish respect to a
particular person. He remembered, that, about
three years ago, a letter had beets sent to a Board,
relative to the compensation of some officer, stating
that a larger sum had been given than had been de -
creed. The mistake originated with the Secr.tary,
and the Board were by no means amenable fur the
mistake, whether it arose from neglect or wilful-
ness. '1 his was a case to point ; the Secretary to
the Board of Ordnance was here the censurable
titan. There had never beet, any charge made
against the honour or in.tgrity nt that Board ;
it had never hero said Lh.tt ail loss lint hro•.*.as.
tained by the public n, earn.. luence of the want of
those qualities which flourisoed at the pres"ilt pe-
riod with as winch vi-4.mr as before. lb; then moved
for leave tip bring 1.1 a 1.;11 to prevent errors
with respect to seen:it" s 1.0 is log rens a

1;4•N40s Dv t •:it itevur fist
prix• 1.1:11J WilAt
.1 t lcll frpal the

man (Mr. A. Coopei); what lie had inentiouea, as
in hi* own opinion tending to aeon' the Board of
any charge, was what militated most strongly
against it. The lion. Gentleman lied also entle.i-
roared to remedy the public loss and grievance,
Ly the introduction of a bin. Ile (Mr. P.) had no
personal motive for offering any observations upon
the present occasion; he bad no private autipathies
to any prisons concerned in that department. Ile
looked upon the Secretary as certainly blameable;
but he considered that the Beard Was vastly more
culpable. Ile conceived the present a muesli very
material. and if the llou•e would pass over such a
wilful dereliction of duty as that a lih:h had been
represented, and not censure tor such a conduct,
it might relinquish all claims to dignity and jus-
tice.

The CH4NCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, it
VIM strange that censure Or so severe ti nature I
should be levelled at the Board of Ordnance.—
They were certainly in a dev,ree reprehensible ; but
it appeared to him, that, on the present occasion,
the person upon whom the heavy immure of the
House should 141, was the Clerk. As mo the loss
stated to have been suetained by the public, in coo.
sequence of the omission of the Board, there had
been some misrepresentation ; 10,0001. was the
amount at which it was ascertained; but when it
was considered, phut the principal was, in such
cases, to have • been bound in .10001. and the two
collateral. in 2500 each, it must appear evilleut,
that the loss sustained to the public, was but half
the money. The Board had directed their Se-
cretary
to apply to Mr. liuut for hit •securitits,
and it would be rather anoincomistent expectation,
that they should follow up all tho orders they
issued.—They were certainly in strictness bound
to go into the detail of the particular circumstarices
of their orders; but if they attended to such mica- '
tier, their wpplicatiom to any thing else would be
impracticable. The Board, then, were not so high.
ly culpable; and, if they overlooked such outis,ion
in their Secretary, their implicit dependence upon
• man who had served them with zeal sod fidelity,
might well he excused. He concluded, be saying,
that the bill which his Hon. Friend (.11r. keooper)
had moved to bring in, would etlictually prevent
the recurrence of this evil.

Mr. filAamass could not conceive that any blame
was isiipistiible to the Secretary, The House was
not to consider upon whom censure was to till ; they
were only to look to the act which was committed,
and ascertain whether that act ought to be animad-
verted upon. Was it not absurd to bring iu a bill
to ctunpel every public officer to do a duty, which,
he knew, previous to his entrance into offices to be
straggly imposed upon hits, and the performance
of which he was to consider the article of his en-
gsgemeut. The censure which had theca proposed
for misconduct sogrussaud glaring, he considered as
too lenient.

Mr. Waleson AD suit], he would only make one
observation. Much had been ►aid about the duties
of the Ordnance Board, as of peculiar severity,
conflating theist to most incessant application ; so
much so. that they could not attend to the =lauds
of their business. To his kriowledge that Board
sat but three days in the week, and during those
periods of relaxation from indolence, they laboured
wirier much oppression of fatigue. It was thrSecre-
tary's business to silt hefire the Board the account
of the orders issued by their command, and the at-
tention to or neglect of those orders; the Secretary
hail done so, he had in no one particular abandoned
bis duty, and yet Mr. Crewe, the Secretary. was
blamed at the cause of those mischiefs; bat such
subterfuge seas the one generally resorted to under
such circumstances. But as to the neglect; there was
no Master-General for a month. Now. if the
Board could go on fur a month without the assist.
ance of that Supernuitierory Officer, could not he
be rulployed in inspecting their orders ? It had
beim 111 l *reit that it was better to guard against
the occurience of such an evil, by bringing in a
Bill. than by punishing the authors of it. lie
Wig of It different opi ll ill it, for he looked upon
punishment as the very In•at mode of argument, It
must be considered that the lion. Gentleman, aho
proposed this encouragement to idleness und indo-
lence, was himself one of that Board, fur which lie
hail felt so much compassion. lie submitted to
the modesty of that /louse, whethe► inch a beha-
viour, with respect to that Board, should be
adopted ?
Mr. 61601112 R iOIINSTON6 proposed an amend-
ment to the sixth

" That it is the opinion of ibis House, the Mastre•Gene-
ral, and the Board of Ordnance, hose Weil sudsy of an oasis.
use of duty, in siegkrliiiit to tam security from Joseph
Musa. Esq. Measlier of this Masse, glad late Treasurer ofthe
Ordnance, in conformity to the instructions under *IWO
they act."
Mr. Ca tcusrr ha hrurtl touch of the irrepon-
sibility of the Board, isi•on the present occati.nii.—
But for what did the politic give it immense
salsifies, and erect fur them stately palaces?—weer
they to sit idle and neglect those duties whi h they
were bound to observe with strictness ?—asid we,e
they not to be responsible to that public for the
consequelie:ls of the violstimi 'Athos, duties ? Mr.
Ctewe,.the Secretary, was u most respectable indi-
vidual, and by no means unobservant of his duties;
it was Memo and unmanly to cast the °diem upon
him, from a holy who had ro obviously broken
through theirengagetnent,and who shoo Id have mark
every inquiry into the circumstance relative to the
s curities. It had been said that the amount of the
loss wait not so great as had bean represented. He
(Mr. Calcraft) was well assured, that the loss hail
heels by no means exaggerated. The Hight Hon.
Gentle inan (Mr. Perceval) had said, that 5.0001.
was the loss sustained in consequence of the omis-
sion respecting the securities, as the ,iriticipal
suss to have been bound in 5,0001. and, of c,ursr,
the securities were the only persons upon shoos a de-
mood could be made. But this lie (Mr. Calculi)
dewed. as the security of the ',flotilla' WIE4 to hone
been grounded upon property which *mild lir
answerable for his defection in the sum (45000%
amid would b- jest as good a mark as the coltatrr.il
securities. But lie thought the slim of t 0,0001.,
nay, of ten shillings, WO math to 1w lust Pus the
upon such an occasion as the present. But
the limit. Gentleman iipplixte (Mr. A. Coop-r) to-
get h r with his colleagues, ought to be halite
the oto.toy of wheel, the 'told's., by their tiegker•
had liven deli S.r Thunnei Tri,4l4e, he
1t0..w to lc• an bo..nnrable luau, and MSc u t •0
Wknn he dhd not east any peculiar blanit. lir,

the ordnan however. joi
ce.ned him in the general mature upo,

The first Resolution was then put and carried
without a ditielon. Upon the second Iwing put
Mr. ASHLEY COOPER said, that he conll no
longer conceal what be conceited would irnd
validate the Ron. Gentleman's argument.
the present sulyect, al least it would the
will which, lie had co,iceiverl, his assertion, v.cr.
accompanied. The Hon. Gentfern.o Inatk,n,
when he alas in the situation to *lnch he Lei
often adverted, acted in a manner, at lest 1111141,
ai that a hich he had so viokutl)
when Mr. Ridge, a man thstrugh %those 11,;„;,
manually passed the sum of 97,00401.. slund,l
given Ott securities, there ;vast no ofsligantioa
Nal to do 60, Lei:muse there had been uo appt,,,
win made to hies to that effect.

Mr. CA LeltArt said, he would he much otil.gri
by any unms's bringing against hum a clnirg.. of
neglect, if any owl) could he proved i hi.ll:
it was three ) ears since he had tilled the to tuttioi;
alluded to, and if such an omission 1 null
ed, he was certainly culpable ; but he ss,uieol
House that lie was totally santiviinated oh citil
tittle of the circumstance which had been ju.l airs.
booed; but ties, if such a thing bad
that surely was no excuse for his (.11.. A.Cuopteq
conduct, and that of his colleaguis.
,Ir. C. ADAM noticed the impropo ire). et dna.
ing that by rtcriolinatiou any tleici.cc tit the pra
seut charge t Quid be set up.

The CH IsceLLoa of the Esonnecta thf.smhd
the nt ervation hi, I 100. Fnend (Mr. A. Cooper)
as fair aad natural. The lion. Cesolisnait cppo-
site (Mr. Caleraf ). had pressed upon his Hurt.
Friend, as Clerk of the Ordaauce, the *NM. b.,u,,e
*luny mistake that took place, and his Hon. Ineull
had stated an error of his own, not as a dekoce.
bat such as might induce the Hort. Gentleman to
kook with a railder rye on others. when he lotted
that even all his own perfection could sot wee him
from error. This was no set off; our aas it %tried
as such ; hut it certainly was • good argument let
the paabing of an Act. to prevent luture inconvehi-
rot es.

Mr. Porrsoweir said, that whatever effert the
remark of the Hon. Gentlemen (Mr. A. Ceep.r)
iniglit have on his Hun. Friend (Mr. tahnli),
had none on him; and he trusted it avoid lure
none on the Howe.—After all, it cline o:.1r to
this, that one neglect could nut justify siteiher.
There appeared p very wisteria' distinetinisbetsseu
the two ca,es : 1. An agent was appoiethl, aot by
the Board, but by the hlaster.Genaral. t. There
was no 'minute of it before the Board. 3. The is-
atrocious under which the Board rend, did ant
go to Agents. There was also a great &Hernia
between a subordinate Officer, and a Treasurer—
the one passing 100,0001. a-year, and the other
passing millions through his hands. Iles•des, there
were no circuisistances,lielonging to tt.e case stated ;
uud at beat, it was only a recrimination, not a
fillkilo44—(Hear, hear.)-11 his kiwi. Fnend ass
criminal, the Gentleman oppnaite ought sot to
have noticed it in this way.—lle ought to have
brought the matter before the Hottae.—lf he did
GO, he (Mr. P.), was the time proved, would then
vote a censure on his Hon. Friend, as he would do
on the proven case, cow before the
Mr. C•I.CRArT'S itd, 3d, 4th, and sth renditions
were then put and carried.
• Os putting the 6th, Mr. G. Jonnwroxt's amend-
ment we. sulori ituted and carried without • &mum.

Mr. CALCRA FT t.aid, that, having now come to a
'decision, that the Board of Ordnance had been guilty
of a neglect of their duty, he would propose s vote
of censure on them for that neglect. 'fo this he
thought uo one could oldect ; and howsver in-
consistent the conduct of theChaticel'or of the Ex-
chequer had been, io first defending the Ilmrd,and
then allowitig such a resolution to pass, he thanked
him for his vote. He defrauded his public conduct
flout charge, and complained of bang
treated by vise he called his friend, who could
Ming such a charge egainst him, haul in his pocket,
to be used as no saw oreasaoa. lie cow-lard, by
moving a resolution of censure on the Board.
Mr. G. Jun wwroac felt himself hound to oppose
:Ins. In whist the Howe had already dour, they
had expressed a censure, and thus gone as far “s
the ruse required. Hr tuiw saw that three errors
were more common than he at first supposed, nod
therelore a bill mar more net-else:try. In his opinion.
piorMing for the future a•us of much more COM'
que•tce than censuring the past: and, lie united,
when a bill was passed, the amountof the set-nous
would be more proportionate to the amount of t!.e
trust. In doing this, the House would do till that
the dispassionate part of the public required of
them, who were much better o,lmm! to see g of
legislative measures, than the success ot psi ty

Mr. WHITBREAD expected no lew of It, Hr.'•
Gentleman's *illusory, than that. alter hart';;
dragged Ina friends into a slough, hr unisldlrob
them a shoulder to push duns net of it again. Tie
case of his tams. Flieud. (Nllr. CaLcraft;, and 0"
now before them. even on the fate ..f them. wv"
by no means parallel; and his Mc. Friend
rightly challenged the Gent!einem up{-mite to but.;
their charge turoartl. If they did out do se, h,
would think they had tint a leg to stout upon. Ile
was somewhat surprised at the argument of t•'.
Hon. tienthquan. who because tt are *seer I"
cases intend of one, ti Ott "I"
to vole a yettssire on ri lue,,fs.•ol -"'-
flisi(ra.)—Ti.ty, th,.t. 1/11 toe ,
they would Cellll4Ore the toss:ince 1-.""
thesis, awl the oilier UM, %hell it ott• Lrtol
forayed. and the oil; lice piott-il. Ile void
not conceive it possible that any olicr mato-
could be adopted. It entail toot be taleisn.l.
that after a breach of shay 11111% 1114.1',
be 1111 mark of di,,,probei,„,,
even be /1 lubjerists suit 111.111.4 w tiain tfes weer
at forearm. As for an act for the littler it off
no .eeurity, out the best security tl.r,
for the Mue to tutor wab to punt-ii i,«-1 111".
queney.
The CHANCELLOR of the ENCISIQUE)i
hiifnr:nrr ata (•;!ieute, lle heist tl e Leads ..f •
110. rd, in btriet....bs, to ft"
sia cY. the r 1,1 .we Iteloywo•fl sit the
In sli•• is lie thinulit it 1.. i er it
ils.• logroinn, than 1,0 •1
"1' • Ile i 8.
" Ll' ;••:s• JO.l. Wait 1, 11:u :ad

stated there War more 4kaa 'one case of error'as a
giuund for tio cev.sure ou either. but as a ground
for providing against their recurrence hereafter, by
tin Art of Parliament.
Mr. H. Tunas Tort did not think the offence
tinder consideration deserving of the most severe
CVOSOIT. lithe House were guarded iu bestowing
prose, they ought also to he slow in pronouncing
ceosiire. These errors in the Board of Ordnance
hr imputed to the Constitution of the Board, which,
from its numbers, threw the main part of the bossi-
ness upon the Clerk. The blame appeared
to be itivided between the President of the
1104„1, and the Secretary ; and, in his opinion,
the vote they had already come to was sofficient
to mark their stove of the affair. Gal/1g any
farthtr would be a step beyond what was nece4-
F:tre ; yet, ay he was unwillstig, either directly or
to negative the present motion, or get
rd +•l' 11 by tile loressour question, lie wished the
Gent. would withdraw it. If pressed, how-
'tt,•r, between the two. he would vote fur the pre-

qiivalle:).
The Gallery was t'• en cleared for a division, oo
which, wr übderstand, the numbers were—

Fur t►e Motion is
Apisist it
Major ay agailist Mr.lerales Resuhatioti--36

Sir (~flabit'•ititioittEti gave notice. •• That
wool.i, 10.morr.o.r, move for the productiosi of
Carreiy,idenee treiw-en Mr. Davirlsoi: and the
ti,cretary of the Board of ordnaueg."
Mr. Lott Fr, alluding to a couvrreatino which
h,4 ins.o.l while we were exclu Jed, gave notice.
• That hr wr.ul:l ni.ike a motion to elucidate the
charge this u'glit brought against him, on Monday
neNt."_

Sir Joni NEWPORT postponed till to-morrow
bi, motion relative to the grouts of Guveromesit
samoto iu Ireland.

!INSTRUCTIONS TO MR. BATHURST.

Me. Wncraasati, pursuant to his notice, rose to
wave fur the instructions given by Government to
Mr. Bathurst, with which lie thought it very im-
portant that the Ilciet.e and Country should be made
acquainted. There were also instructions to Mr.
Stoort, not by Government', but by a person con-
nected with them, which he would wish to be laid
before the House. These papers relate) to the
part taken by this country in the hostilities between
Austria and France, and as he could anticipate no
abjection to their production, he would conclude,
without further obseivation, by moving. " That u.i
humble /Wrens be presented to His Majesty,
ptayia. that they should be laid before the House."
The'CILINCELLOI of the Exenatacaa regretted
that he could not agree with the Hou.Geutlemau's
motion, whtch could not he complied with, as violat-
ing every iirisciple on which the Noose had been
accustonseil to act. These papers could not be
grinned without disclosing to foreign nations the
confideutiel instructions to our own Ministers, in-
volving th, must secret politics of the country, and
the interests of individuals in other states. The
II nise of Commons should be very cautious bow
they culled for such diklusures ; and, indeed.
though there were some few instances to the
contrary, it was their general rule to avoid doing
it. He could assure the Honourable Gentleman
that the greatest public incouvenicnce would arim
firm granting his request ; and, indeed, if the
Hon. Gentleman would reflect for a moment on the
state of the various nations concerued at the time,
be mast be comiiiced that these communications
could not be safely mode public. What he had
said referred to the instructions to Mr. Bathurst
with regard to Mr. Stuart, to hint there never were
any nistroctions given.

Mr. CANNING com urred with his Right Hon.
Friend, that the papers moved for could not be
produced without great public injury. 'lney would
disclose Witten hurtful to persons iu Foreign coun-
tries; and facts, which could now be of no use to
any one, hut the future historian ; but which might
ire very pojudicial to the n airmail interests, by e
premature disclosure. At the same time, he be-
lieved he could convince the Him. Moser that they
would not answer his own object, with reg ad to
*hewing the part this cauniry took at the coin-
menreinent of hostilities between Austria and
France. The fact was, Mr. Bathurst did not ar-
rive at Vienna, till the 36,1 i of April, nor ha I he
an interview or coinntunication with the Au-than
Government till after hostilities had coin tnenc trl.
As for Mr. Stuart. he was without instructions
from the British Government, and had gone from
Spain to Vienna, to he ready in case einumunica-
twits were opened between that city awl London.
Su far (nen lasing sent by this Government, they
HO sooner learnt he had gone there, than they sent
his treat. N. fiber did he arrive io Germany till
after the war had commenced; and, consequently, no
so,ire than Mr. Bathuist, could hare been concern-
et in exciting the Austrian Government to war.—
',isnot:nous sent to Mr. Bathurst were to re-
-115011 at Malta till the war took place, before he pre-
ss:lnd leniself as the accredited ',gent of the Bri-
tish Guyer 1111 l eat. With these instructions Isere
tweed eonsiderationa of policy, in case circum-
stances should call fur his preaeoce in Vicuna,
•11161 it' emelt' he highly iniroper to discover,
Mr. Bitounnam gave notice, that if the pre-
Wlit motion was wittidtawn, he would, on Tuesday,
move for the production of so much of tfie cor-
ondebee between Mr. Bathurst, Mr. Stuart,
aid the Gov. 'lenient et home, while theca Gentle-
men weer at Vienna. as could be produced with-
out injury to the public interests.
Mr. 11 Htfalle•D said, it was difficult to in-
ner as•ertions of the Right Hon. Gentlemen
"Pmsitc, as to the injury the public or foreign
I:idenituals would sustaiu from the production of
he papers he had moved for. As for as opinion
rsuld go, however, he could see nu injury to the
rahhc that could possibly accrue. The play was
"'" "vet', Austria was annihilated, and France was
sok the only nation in Euroi:e. He would be glad
',lie convinced, that this country did not unite in
tiai war; and though he withdrew his 'notion oil
inn assertion of Ministers, that a compliance with' it
light injure iudivsduds, he would support the mo-
priimiseel ley his Moo. Friend (Mr. Brougham).
The motion was accordingly withdrawn.
The privately dealing in shops.
SO wharfs. Bills, went serer.lly through Commit-
-1"1--The reports to be rretivrtl c.ti Tuesday.
Pie bleat Militia rill was, on the moonlit' of
‘it. Benin. teal thini lime, and passed; with
leo .L 1.1104,114 clause, exempting Mt:tubers of

Friend!, Societies from sues for nou-attendance,
while r.ti duty.
The Milithi Completion Bill was read a third
time and parsed.
Sir Jowl Ncwrotrr gave notice, that h• ooulil
mote for the further cowitleratiou of the Einhitz-
4;:inoit ISI I, on dloudar next.
Mr. Lcsut.rGruN brsught up the papers
liy the Rowse, rvlstive to the abolition of the
Sltve Truile.—Liid on the table.,
Mr. I.CsiIt•OTON also brought up the Report of
the Committee 0:1 the cola of the kingdom, which
was referred to the Bullion Committee.
The Report of the Innkeepers Bill was also re-
ceived, and the House adjourned at nine o'clock.