The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1807-07-28 00:00:00

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d cat olls future Meals of resource, wines
iptlit at a future time be deemed necessary to
infartb. He must suppose that those who were
lest of seeking after disant colonial possessions
,et sew be satisfied. He trusted that such was
the übjet'l of the present large expedition going
ward. For his part, he thought it would be the
• ,t policy to withdraw our forces from such dis-
t colonial expeditions. It had been stated in fa-
rel raising An asiditional disposahle force, that
tbe necessary to send part of it to Ireland ;
acthe present moment, strange contradittion !
itnisterr were withdrawing the regular forces out of
at country ; where was the exigency that called for
step, thus leaving vulnerable what we professed
be most anxious to defend, and at the very time
.ea the Irish Insutridtinn Bill was passing through
when His Majesty's Ministers and ushers
in not allow that Ireland Can exist for one day
ithoat ,u,:h an AO ? But even allowing the pre-
med emergency aftually to arise, and the French
avow- to coital his forces on the opposite shores.
lthisniust be a work of considerable ti
tme; it was
likely it could take place before Mae or en months
id elapsed ; and supposing no events occurred to
meat this, the propo.ed plats of the Noble Lord
as not adapted to meet the danger ; the ballot
• Id not be completed, and the Militia would nut
in a condition to do that justice to their eosin-
, ',Lich might naturally, under certain circum.
.ces. be renamed of them. When supplied with
w remiss, the country might have its name and
maw for discipline but how could it reason-
bly be • expelled of them to perform the same
hievemeors, as if they had been lett untouched
Whes the first drafts had been made from the
Militia into the Regulars, in 1799. it occasioned
id,eaess and drunkenness; and notwithstanding
mete prudent precaution, still similar causes would
produce similar mischiefs. When the ballot was
maned to, it would be in fait a tax measure. and
the ballot, so far as rest.eaed the prison serving.
'cold tall upon the substitute. If it must be a
tempo sory measure, like the Conscription in France.
bes:aiuld prefer a direa, rather than a circuitous
made. Ltit be done to supply the wants of the
limy, and Irt all persons firm the ages of 16 to 30.
be made liaote o se, ye. He begged the Howe to
to eider what ha: dships were produced by the Army
oat iixseive Dill ; the bounty was raised so high xliat
a dead stop was put to recruving. But Ise denied
the tiecess:ty even of a progressive Conscription.
It had been said that this measure was a major at
ow; it would, however, de„; 1:-1 ate into a mover ;
in igt it was a mere fungus. He then went over
the plats of Recruiting for the Army (.4s brought
farward by Mr. Windham). which be defended
an.l commended, on the grounds of sound policy,
sod tie Constitution of the country. Parliament
would stultity itself by raising the greatest pos-
sible foie, when the danger was nor so immediate,
whilst it would pies enr the means of increasing our
defence. wneis tin danger war at hand. He Lad
beard it asserted. that on the Volunteer Force

alone we were to reef OUT defence; but thin was cer-
tainly a diageront delusion. The Volunte-r Free,
rhino AS the • .somber COT. •,t)e.k)
men, now coi..ib,eki t 269,000 ;
melt were just as ethe .nt now as ever they vote;
but it was impossibst ••1 have the same men in the
Volunteers and in the Militia at the same time. It
you also consider the number of men in the
my, arnuuuung to and your com-
mercial alsogoing nu ; if the Volunteers
or the marine be eiloouralvd, iSTICII could not b.,
hid fruity any other quarter ; so that after every
exertion in other respeas. he thought it would or
impossible to aniintaht toe army at its present
knelt. Peace within§ and the tranquilliting of Ire-
land, would add more to our national strength than
all the measures now brought lot ward. •• If " mid
Me. Whitbread, •• you can enlist tour [nab
Catholics in the army, who are now prohibited
from entering it— (a load cry of haw, Ater /
from the Treasury ileoreb.taiL I mean to state.
that there are existing in Ireland, which
have prevented many thiamin& from enlisting
in the army /A cry of No, sot) But, when
His Majesty's Miaimers say, that the present mea-
sures are necessary as respecting Ireland. to have
a disposable fore, to send there, then, surely, the
present withdrawing of troops from Ireland must
be danAerous and impolitic." One thing more hi
hoped lie might be allowed to suggest; he meant, to
express his hope, that His Majestys Ministers would
nit aliandon :toy epcning that might present itself for
nuking peace. Nu time could exist, during a state
of war, in which it was a, t "he :0 think of peace,
either in a time of conquest • -stoat. He trusted,
therefore, that Ministers would b' magnanimous
ett.hih to think of peace ; still be hoped and
t lined nothing humiliating would be listened to;
but inch a peace as could be made with honour.
But if war should unfortunately continue. then no-
thing remained to be done, but to grasp the sword
and go to the contest, only considering, that we
hive a d4,.etotrou. eaemy to contend with. Should
She WA; continue between this county and the Em-
perJr of the French, as he will have nothing then
to do but to tom his whole attention to the destruc-
tion of these kingdom:, we, on our pan, must turn
our 'shot:: attention to resist him; and with an
onion of hand, and hearts, and with our powerful
resources, be declared be had no fear whatever of
t re.3lt.

mt. CANNING—I 4 The Hon. Goodman (Mr.
i.iibread) spoke of peace; but ia order to treat,
whether, as he expresses it, is the osotooot of OM-
yiest or defeat, we mutt meet with the spans of
s.!e:y before we can offer to negociate; it would be
ner:esiitry that neither the acceptance of any proper-
:4,oa, or amicable offer to be made, should appear
to proceed from any doubt of our own means and
abilities to contend with the enemy. But if the
means that may be said to have swallowed up Europe
be concentrated against us, be could not but wonder
how the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Whitbread)
shoald draw the coirclusion be did, that this was
not a time of emergency. but it was upon this mis-
taken ground he had built tree whole of his argu-
meats. But probrerly the Honourable Gentleman
meant, that our military establishment was already
such a. war suffiaent to meet any danger; but, if
was not that of the Right Honour-
able Gentleman opposite (Mr. Windham), because
Ins military plan was proposed, as one calculated to
meet a►,y emergency, but not to meet any imme-

ditto danger. But though our
-
men's he sufficient in ordinary cases, yet they were
not each as were quite calculated for the presets:
crisis. But it bad Wren demanded, why had not
Ministers earlier brought forward their plans t The
answer was sefficiently obvious, because they did not
foresee the sadden ani rapid progress of the enemy.
They felt a due caution and delicacy as to propos.
hog any alteration in the plans of their predecessors,
and set out with a determination not to overthrow
what had been done by them, and had beeu sanc-
tioned by PerDement. But if the emergency did
exist, Cie question wa-. whether the present plan
was the best oiia;ited to meet the exigency t Ibe
opposers of f.is measure had confounded two dis-
tinEt ideas relstive to foreign service. In 1803, this
country stood in a d If rent situation, as to foreign
service, from what it did now, when we had the
Cape, troops in Sicily. Alexandria. Monte Video,
&c. As to the policy of the distribution of our
troops in these placm, he gave no Opinion ; it was
enough for him to say, that the present Ministers
received these places in custody from their predeces-
sors, and was it not their duty to provide for and send
troops to these Rations! Now this circumstance alone
made a difference of at least 30,000 men ; so that
even if these places were to be surrendered after-
wards, it was necessary that we should now retain
them. that we might not be robbed of them, or that
we might afterwards make use of them as a means
of obtaining peace.—He afterwards contrasted the
two measures, that of their predecessors, and that
which the Noble Lord had now brought forward.
There were two opinions delivered by different
Gentlemen, on the tendency of the present measure.
By some, it was argued. that its delve lay in re-
sorting to the measure of compulion. By otheeerl
it was asserted, that it was not compulsory enough
Its the first place. be would say. that there never
did exist a country, where it was possible to employ
a portion of its population, to the amount of eight
hundred thousand men, without being obliged to
have recourse to compulsion, in some mode or
other. To expo& it o: ierwise, was to hope for an
effect altogether visionary and inefficient. But at
such a moment as the oresent, when the emergency
was so awful. when the dangers which menaced us
were so preising, when the whole of Europe was
almost cnnlederated in arms against us, to hazard
such opolion, or to adopt such a system, was no-
thing less than to give a preference to ideal them y.
over strong and convincing experience. The Right
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. WI, bread) opposite. has said,
if compulsion was necessary, better at once recur
to the system of Conscripiton, raetsed by the G m-
vernment of France. Did Pie know that the principle
of substitution was ritconcileaol.• with that sys-
tem ? this marked differe Ice, that whilst the
substi tire in this country was Fe °cured at I comp":
rative'y torline expense, he had it from unques•
tinnable autnority, that within these few months,
the sum of four-hundred guinea* was the altual
price for a sahnitete in the French Conscription.
But he would say further, that however pressing
the exigency, it bad nct yet arrived to that point.
which, in this country. engaged as it was in com-
mercial and rnanufaeuring interests. would justify
the necessity of such a resource, as the principle of
Consctiptioo, similar to that of Franca. the true
state of the question was, that the emergency.
such as then existed, called for an augmentation
of ont military form. It was necessary that it
should be partly dispos,,',le. and not partly
decisive. These were foreign possession*, I,n
V.,. policy of capturing which he would not then
die use, but which being in Inc possession of
mid country, Ministers were responsible for re-
taining them. It had been entire ided, that the in.
crease of the year 11103, was no parrallel ; that it
arose out of the necessity of an urgent case, and was
provided for by a sudden, but appropriate remedy.
Sorely. it was no great object for censure, to guard
against the suddenness of future circumstances ; to
be prepared for these events, which, in all probability,
would arise; and of conrse to resent the disadvan-
tages which precipitancy invariably entails, even on
the most applicable resources, when mexpededly
adopted. Tl.ere was another observation upon which a
very great feeling had been exhibited by these gen-
tlemen connected with the Militia establishment.
They were alarmed at 'the effect which the transfer
of the men from tht 'Militia to the Regular Army
would have on those officers who bad devoted so
large a portion of their time, and mace such a va-
riety of sacrifices to render. their respoirive corps of
Militia disciplined and highly effeitive. In such
an apprehension, he could not join He thought
that a contrary feeling must prevail. That the
Officer who had formed the corps must and would
feel proud that he • had made soldiers, not
only tor the eye, but soldiers in the heart ; that
he who infused the spirit, would accelerate the
means of giving it fair play—that the source whence
originated the feelings of gallantry and courage
would feel no objettion to afford an expansion pro-
portionate to the impetus. The Hon. Gentleman
bad endeavoured to make a contrast where none ex-
isted. He bad dwelt upon the military benefits
which would arise from Catholic Emancipation—
Bet surely it was a bad argument from the friend of
those who not only could not have recourse to that
measure, but who had ailually disclaimed it bat a
sheet period previous to their resignation of of
Mr. WHITBRRALI explained his opinion on the
French Conscription, and on the probable end per-
manent augmentation of our national security, the
concession of the Catholic claims would at this mo-
ment produce.
Mr. MILEY ADDINGTON observed, that al-
though all parties were agreed in opinion, as to the
unexampled crisis of difficulty and danger, yet a
discordance appeared to exist with respect to the best
and most successful means of averting the difficulties
and surmounting the dangers. He felt grateful to
his Noble Friend for the had manner in which he
postponed the consideration of this measure, bat he
was disappointed in not finding him give, upon
more mature reflection, a preference to a principle
equally simple, and much more efficacious, at the
s tow time that it was free from all those great,
weighty, and insuperable objections, which were in-
herent in the present proposed plan He could not,
under stash an emergency es then existed, willingly
oppose a measure apparently calculated to increase
our means of national security; but, at the same
tins?. highly as he valued unanimity, he considered
that to support the proposed measure of his Noble

o
by which he was actuated, and would be an aniisii
compromise of the pnb:ic safety itself. Woh re-
sPeci I') the syste•n ii.trositiced by his Wien Hon.
Friend (Mr Windham), tie was one those who
viewed it as beneficial in its OiN.Tation, and which
would be ultima,ely successful in its effects. Had
it been promulgated thrinigoout the country, its im-
mediate advantage would, in his opinion, be quickly
discerned. Bur ..e was not a litiie surprised to bear
his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Windham), who had so
often, heretofore, pointed out the dangers arising
from the aggrandising power of France, row ap-
pear to mitt:: light of that stilled. Indeed, when
he heard him argue agsinsr any increase of our na-
tional str?rgrh, he found in me view of his own
(Mr. Vv'inelharn's) measure, the hest hirer to his
nbjedions against the necessity of autiliary expe-
dients. %Visor% the whole of former measures were
contemplated in their offeds, there never was one
which equalled in it; si:cc,-,s the Army of Reserve.
It did not interfere w.th the ordinary recruit-
ing, and it procured, in a very short period,
a very great accession in the effective strength
of our military force. The present Government
were right in not interfering with the military sys-
tem of the late Ministers, and he well knew, that
they not only afforded it fair play, but gave it to
his knowledge an accelerated action. 'I he Hon.
Member then took a view of the advantages and
disadvantages arising from the proposed measure,
and concluded by strongly expressing his opinin,
that this tampering with the Militia would not In-
swer its designed object, at the same time that it
unsettled a great branch of our national and defen-
sive security. It began at the wrong end, for at
the moment that with one hand the militia system
was knocked down, with the other an attempt was
made to raise and renovate it. It behoved the Go-
vernment to take care whether it was not too far
stunned with the blow, to sanction the expecta-
I tion of a beneficial recovery.
Lord HENRY PF, l'Y rose, and expressed his
satisfaction that the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Canning), had spoken before him. In the conclud-
ing part of his speech, he had adverted to the Ca-
tholic Question, with the view of throwing upon
the late Adm;nioration the charge of having en-
tirely given up their opoions upon that great and
imporrant legislative consideration. Wkat was the
fad ? In what way did the history of the Me bear
upon this grass and unfounded charge( It con-
tradided it in every shape and form. It was con-
tradidel ever. upon the evidence of those garbled
and mutilated ex, rads of State Papers, which the
Right Hon. Gentleman well knew were so surrepti-
tiously puhlished upon that subjea ; he was unwilling
now to say more, but adverted to the plan which
was proposed, as a real, permanent, and substantial
supply, to our milir.ry force. It was well observed,
by his Hon. Friend. (Mr. Whitbread) that the true
estimate of the .nilitary exertions ut a country, was
to compare the amount of as military force with
its population. And upon that solid and true pro-
position, it was undeniable, that this country em-
ployed, in arms, a greater pi oportion than any other
country, in any part of the world; and a much
greater than any other, whose commercial and ma.
nutaßnring interests were so extensive. Under the
great Prussian Monarchy, the calculation of its mi-
litary force was t-t7ths of it; population. Whilst
in this country, the amount of the population de-
voted to military pursuits amounted to 4:•13.000 men.
It had had leo,ooo Regular 'lli-nor; 70,000 Militia;
30,000 Fdeeigners, and t so,ooa 1411116110. -There-WS,
if ever there was a time when caution was necessary
in tampering with your military establishmsnts, it
was when the country a: rived at .ts natural limit in
railioaty means. How then could tare measure of
the Noble Lord be r-coueitedr At the emergency,
when rho •iug .t to be improved, and
its coadithei arnelimated, when the ease allually
occurred, where benefit and utility were not only
natarady to be expelled from as services, but wilese
danger might be the consequence of unsettling it.
then it was that the Noble Lord took the convenient
opportunity ui making ,those expenments which
cannot roduce temporary safety. and were re-
plete with ultimate injury. But it carried with it
the seeds of destruiinn ; inasmuch as' the men,
whose time of service would soon expine, would
naturally specula... on tie operation of the ballot.
They would not in the fo st inrtan P volunteer,—
They would wait fort err u; .5, receive a
bounty of twenty and thi: ty pounds tor rettuilingas
substitutes, an/ next a bounty of ten guineas toe
volunteering into the line. Either at once get rid
of the Militia altogether, or do nut inter ere with
it at time when the z • il, the patriotism, and
the discipline of the Issilaia, would afford the
best security for our home defence, His Lord-
ship, in adverting to the Training An, strenu-
ously supported that measure of his Right Ho-
eourable Friend ( Mr. Windham); he consioered it as
the best talcelated not only to recruit our regular
army, but to draw out the whole force of the king-
dom in case of any emergency. One obsorvation of
the Right Han. Gentleman ('Mr. Canning) he could
not pass without notice, when be thought fit to
speak of the suddeu and rapid ruin on the (7onti-
nent, he said, some assistance might have been ren-
dered to the Continental Powers during the late /ad-
ministration ; but he must observe, that a British
, force might have been hazarded wit'inut a posted
of success. The first Expedition of Lord Cathcart
was not attended with omse conseq.leaces which
were expelled; not that the failure was owing to a
• want of bravery In the troops 4 their noble Com.
tinder, but to some causes which he forbore to
Mention. He could not say what might happen
upon his second Expedition, but he sincerely wished
it every sirens.
Lord HENNTICER thought His Majesty's Mi.
sisters entitled to the gratitude of their country for a
plan which must ultimately secure our commerce,
our constitution, and even our existence.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
observed, that s one were of opinion that the pre-
sent force was sufficient for the present emergency,
and would prefer that it should take its run, in
order to hand down th- fame of the Right Hon.
Gentleman to postei icy. rather than adopt that
measure which must evidently be the most effectual
for the purpose. A loud cry of heir ! dour!) He
was not surprised that the Right Honourable
Gentleman, whose fame was in such great danger,

.nww.o awav-ix
mos. con ider cher Itiglt Ho 'O, ,bl. G. n'ir a-
, ul t n.), be ezr&A'rale the ,:ny so
a. r give tie um ,e If an ,nro-dkate, r•ifeEtu .1, and
is.i t ce no .ri c •uld deny that the
m now b,.f.0, Ise Was ,'e he c
rlcw
14 •d to the c ,ruple i of that most desirable b-
jeit slid •0 mean to • t into a contr
ssi h the Right H a G open ~.c Breit
effizacy of his plans, but he it, tight there wag
pr ..). saiLietit bef re the ',Ws slew ihat the
ord..iary an i •..* add tional forte Aft.
had p:oduced m r men, on an v,iage of five
months. t:-an al the Right Hon. lee .t 1 man's plans
together while the plan propos• Jtry..is ti. oieFriend
was not only a be:ter mode ter home ,!efeace, but
gave an additi•rn of 40,001 disposable men, to go
to Ircl..nd or any tAlier destination w 'ch might be
thought expedient ; there was the further advantage
in this pier., that 16,000 of these men would go
to recruit those skeleton regimen,' which were
now 'early useless. He preferred the ballorting
for eh. Militia to ballottine for the Army of Re-
serve; and concluded, by atfi min.z, that, from prac-
tice and expert:nee. it was evident this mode was
carried on in the country with great success. with.
out at all impeding the other mode of oreinary re-
cruiting.
Lord HENRY PETTY shortly explained.
Mr. WINUHAM concurred in the opinion,
that if the exigei:cy was so great as represented. a
temporary measure of security ought to be adopted.
He would not sacrifice the present to the future, be-
cause, by so doing, there could be no fu'ure for
which to sacrifice..--(A I.sugh I -1,-e Gentl.men
opposite, he presumed, had suffered this proposition
to escape them, and they were now proud of seal.
ing the discovery.—/Haw her!) The Hens
Gentleman recapitulated his observations on the
growing and increasing advantages of t'•e system
which -he had proposed last Session ; he com-
mented open the nature of those obstacles which
must. in the first instance. retard its progress,
and ably placed, in contradistinaion, the temporary
expedient to which the House was then called upon
to have recourse. If the emergency, and gswat he
admitted it, war to be successfully met, the remedy
consisted not in the alternatives of ballot and
bounty, the one reciptocally increasing the other.
The Hon. Gentleman observed. that he could fitid
no other more convincing arguments than those ad-
vanced by him on a former evening, therefore, his
should place those undeniable and plain fags is
opposition to the delusive and temporary expedient
of the Noble Lord.
Mr. BRAGGE BATHURST was against the
proposed alteration in the Militia, as tending es
break up that constitutional system.
Viscount CAS•I'LEREAGH animadverted oa
the arguments of his Right Hon Friend (Mr. Wind•
ham) who admitted the necessity and greet a-
gency of the occasion, but denied the propriety of
the measure proposed as the remedy ; he complain-
ed of the hard situation of His Majesty's Ministers,
who, by the total neglea of their Predecessors, found
measures of this nature expedient and unavoidable.
The expznses of the Militia, he contended, were
less than those of the Army of Reserve. He want-
ed soldiers ; he wanted a disposable force. He was
not sanguine in the hops of a speedy pence; set'
military force was now snore respettable than at
any former period, but the enemy was possesed
of greater numbers, and more military pride,
than at any tornser time. We should be strong
enough for either war or peace, and should
chew to Europe, that we were in that formid-
able attitude. The Right Honourable Gentleman
(Mr. Windham) came into power, and went out of
it, without having ever said a word of the dangers
to be apprehended from France. The late Mini.
stirs had exhibited no symptoms of military prepa.
rations, except some rockets at Boulogne; they had
even issued an order to discontinue the transpose
service, so highly essential and necessary to the
country. They had neglected Europe, and ',speed.
ally Russia, and they now united against the present
Ministers, to impede their particular measures, or
to force upon them measures against their judgment.
Atter a few words from Dr. Lawrence against
the Bull, and also same observations from Mr. Wind.
him, at half past three the House divided, what
the numbers stood Ous—
t., e. fur the Au,endment
Nees

,

- 90
- - IV/

741joray in favour of the tecon' reatiing 97
Oa our re-admisiim, we toned the Kluge 4Er
eussini the Order of their further Proceedings,
upon this and other similar Bills.
The Committal of the Maki.' transfer 8111 wat
appointed for this 'lay, (Tuesday), and the Militia'
Ballot Bill for to-morrow. _ _ _

Sir ARTHUR WELLESLEY mnvei the Order
of the Day, kettle Irish Militia Service Bill.
On tht, Question !wing put from the Chair, stns.
gers were again ordered to withdraw, but we under•
stand that that Bill was read a second time withal&
a division.
IRISH INSURRECTION BILL.
On being re-admitted, they were occupied in the
third reading of the Irish Insurteaton Bull. After
some conversation, the Bill was read a third time.
Mr. WHITBREAD then suggested the pro.
priety of inserting a clause. as a rider to the Bill,
for the purpose of Mining a penally upon Ma-
gistrates failing to return Lists to the Quarter See.
sions. of the persons employed by them in searching
houses; but as this Clause was net prepared.
Mr. BRAND, on account of the lateness of the
hour (it being then half-past tour o'clock) proposed
an Acjournment.
Upon this motion another division teak place.
We understued the clause was brought up. and ne-
gatived without a division.
On the Motion of Sir JOHNi NEWPORT, for
limiting the duration of the Bill, the House divided.

For the Amendment, Ayes 411.—Noes 112 ....%Isierity SC
When the Speaker put the question that this sin
do pass. Mr. Ward, Lord Milton, and Mr. Sheri.
den, spoke in an able And animas I manner against
the principle of the Bill. Mr. Grattan, Mr. Berea.
ford, and Air. Bagwell, in favour of it.
ihe House then divided,
For the Bill NM.
IG6 e
At HALF PAST SIX O'CLOCK the Hoar
adjourned.

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