The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1807-01-22 00:00:00

svpAIER 1263 i

1•m...---
TIOr ITRE ROYAL, ORURY-LANIi—
DHIS PRESENT EVENING. Jan. 42, tio7,
1 Their Majesties' Serrano will aa a New Comic Opera,
i. three sae, call
FAed.
LSE ALARMS;
OR, MY COUSIN
The Charefiers by Mr Waiughton, Mr Praham, Mr R in-
• .mr J ,hnitone, Mr. Mathews, Mr Penley, Mr. We.
~,,,,, Mr (Mount ; Mrs. Mountain, Miss Duncan, Mrs,
, Mos P Me, Signora Stones
To ',Wilt will be added, the Farce of
WHO'S THE DUPE ?.
DAer, M:. Houton; Credos, Mr. Rannietei.
.-----
'-------iii"l. . A I A P.-ROY Al.. I. i IVIKN I -OAR I:EN.
onllizl PREAEN r EVENING, Jan. 22, 1807,
IL left :i.riiirl, the Coined:: of
THE MAN OF ME WORLD.
c i r -1 .r .s Maeareouliant, Mt. Cooks; Lady Rodolphe
L.: ' '', - "", ‘T'''' Gl""'
T . w!•• di will lw added, a New Pantomime, eilled,
HARLEQUIN AND MOTHER GOOSE;
OR, THE GOLDF.N EGG.

- --
TRAt.SPOIa t t FICE, Joe.ll, 1110.
iIEREAS Me THRER FRENCH PRl-
soseßs .1* WAR, rover-1 mid arxr• ibol at p.,
errof, aid, .4. At 2 'tfi of tau Mond/v, re eir.iwis a, Mew
end. .1 ileirssr, sloseeril frees die roan et i hawse, 1. (11-
tither( •
The Gmmissioners for condi:cling Ms Maiestt's Transport
wirke, &c. do hereby eller a Reward of FIVE GL INEAS,
the Rahcaptoreot each of the said Prisormrs, to env roaaWl
Perrot who shall apprehend them, or either of thesis, and
then, at this Oftlee, or other.". e.....„• %hero v) be .4.-
y Waled in ilny of Ow puhlic Gaol; r
S. ERER ARV, an Erisetene de V..isseau in the French
. taken in the Pioche French Frigate, 24 years of air,
3 fort 7 inches lisgh, stout Person, round Vi age, swarth, Corn-
plesmo. brown Errls, Mask Hasr, and has a cut am the Fore.
heed, nee, the left Eye.
CHARLES HAR R E.L, Second Captain of l.a Jaunt CI.
oiontirw, French Merchant Vessel, 94 years of ace, I feet ft
`hashes high, slight Person, long Vi•rig,t, sallow Complexion.
,beosin Ilan, brown Eve., peek marked.
STAN DASIADIE. Levant to the French Colonel de
Mares,, taken in La Minerva French Lester of Marque, 19
yowl or age, S test 4 Sochrs high, middle-iiserl Person, oral
Visage, fair Complexion, light brown Hair, Scar nit the right
.ede of his Nose.

DUTY WS PRIYPERTY, 1806.
1.1 IS MAJESTY'S COMMISSIONERS for
.8. A the 'AFFAIRS TAKEN, herrog imitate leferviNtiiin
that amity Abs.#4, “two al in t*, oho # 1,r46.0. sad (store.
seer, and Yarn atliereee, here neglected tu &Neer neural
their Property end Peaky for the %tor tat*, os regrind b, the
mint Are hereby Rix li'atier, Thle 141 Pe.e.4.41 who shalt a,. r to
de:iter ',heir Returns U. Nice e or t.i tt.e
Amason of' Mr egpattirt Dlotrietv, **MN Fourteen Dais frogs the
Dar hereof, wilt be venerated tar the Penalty misread by
Dviesitt. Rjg Ovder of the Itaard,
01fier for Tarn, MATTHEW WINTER.
.14N, 17, 1807.
view Pie A w:rZTy4,7.
THE COMMISSIONERS for Pi/too/hot Hu
ohjesty's Nay de Aeretip pre Natire, That on TUESDAY,
the 11714 looteek tie, oral be ready to ref-eine Towers i.,
ii), mod nut for Me rep* 1 lAN
FRESH WAITR fir Ma uottell bin Majesty's
Maio arui roirl• at the Port of tireromet„ to Trete,. Alinsibe
ordain ,• see, fe;ette, nett, Sir Months news shalt ae given, on
caber stile. far the termination there.). ; the as.,,ie P.lOO/14i to k
by Rills, pew silt, with Interest, Newt!, Das otter Date
rhe the CoAreee alas k sef. the Seep.
We. Office , us We itiecoi or by apply the Cale Nor of
eu,totra ed Liverpool.
Ka Regard rat It keel to any Tereiter IN whirls the Prier sh.II
net he mantel In Iron!, at Smyth, erehut sh.ol um M. &me. eit s.•
t,t BONIIII before One *Tied. on the said Treed...), the Visit
h teat ; tow oaten the Peron Woo wakes she TCM4IIII` IllnV
an Y/W 14.414111, to answer 44.1 coliejtor.

A PE I'ITION of the Planters, Mere!ints, anj
11 others, interested in the Ibittsh Wan India Colonies, in
the Howe of 4nd., against the Bill fi.r the Abolition of the
S'd V-* 'fettle, lie. for Sionatores the Bar of at the
Jamaica Coffee le.use, and at Wiight*., in Soho-flume, where
will remain till three n'elnekTi-morrow.

(:11FAT GAIN vifutt smAI.CusK !!
(RAND LOTTERY NOW DRAWING.
DAYS OF DRAWING.
fa, Thipsday . . Jan ft I 7th, M ~,day, . Fa). 9
At. Monday . . Jan. U I Rib, WrAtieday Fe',. II
4th, Tuesday . . Jan t 7 9th, Frilly . . Feb. 13
5111, Wednesday . rat. 4 lOth, Saturday . itD. 14
6th, Friday . . Fals. 6

Prime of L. 10,000.
I Prises of Priz-". of I. I,POO
I 10,000 1 8 5:10
S 5,080 20
40 of and !),100 of
First-drawn . . . Thinl Day . . . L I^,Boo
Tint-drawn . . . Pith Der . . . 51,0,
Piret_dreon . . . Last Day D,nou
TICKETS and SHARES are on Salo at •!.1 tics Licensed
'Weer, Office., and by their %tent, the Corlett..
I.43sessr, Dse.
NHE COSI NI E. FF. 14 LETTING the
• setly;vl-14011sk Eti PATES, will met et Qui!,lhally
en THIJRhDAY, the Day of January next, at Eleven
o'Cloelt in the r.f.'InCHI,
To urr, b. PUBLIC AUCTION, for 111 year", frit"l
Lady.tLiv next, a capital MIESSI'AGE or TiI4P.ItIP4T,
Coarti.henee, Stables, awl other buildup" limb a Garde*, azt
a large Piee,"ferreant Ground, an 4 Merles. land, edjoireiers
teeten, situate in Fore.foratdinie, IA the county
of C.irrcy, lately to the ..c:upation of t i.. Maly Vannhant,
felmonger.
The Premises may b^ •iewed, and a Plan thereof, with Con-
.• ton, rue Letting the sante, may be seen at She Ulfice of

SANIUF.L. NEWMAN, Comptroilm._

t;t'it-DtiALL, Lompoc. Dec. Id, 14106.
rr~iIt?COMMITTEE for LETTING the
ISI:IDGEFIOUSE ES I ATEN' mill meet at Goildhal!,
en TIIURSID AY, the 22d Day of Jairoary neat, at Eleven
o'clock in the VOTIMOCM.
To receive PRt)PUSALS for • apply of FIR TIMBER,
in such quantities, and at such times. as shall be require.l, t it
the Moo oi fornikna Waldo. and other works belonging to the
Erirtgehoirse, at a certain price per :
To receive PROPOSAL'i for a tipsily of ELM 111 MISER,
in grill qua 11l t rev, art at such times, a. :hall be required; for
the 641116 purpose, at a cenarn price per load :
To receive PRtlfir ISAIAS fu a .apply of BURBLE., and
I.ARGE SOUGH eILOCLS of STONE, etch ti• welch not
.t. 4 11411 half a Trio, our more than ten Ton., in sui h quern,
ti's, and M inch Mom as shall b. required, for the Locks and
litarlings of Eared in dridge. at a certain prree per Tun
To remove PlitoPuNALs f, • supply of CHALK, us auAt
Inalliittll, and at such ,11.151 M, as duil be required, for the mid
Locks and Stellate., at a (swam pace per 'Dm ; and
To receive PROPC.); Nl.cl (..r the *ripply of
.1 ILTS, 'RUN PILE SHOES, end other IRON WORK,
t" paid "1 the repair of London Stodge, in ...licit qoairtities,
a.l I %tinsels Move, es *all be required,at A certain pries Per 'Pon.
Covtrafis to be made for One Y,-az from Chnotma.
ni•st, the unlit. thereof may b • sem At t is afire of Works,
PiAMUEL NIEW.MAN, Craptrdlrr

THURSDAY‘ J.

LIORNSI3Y and CO. beg leave to reimiA4 ih
1 Puhlic, that the Third Duy of Drawing of the present
State Lottery will be on MONDAY NErr; the Fest drawn
Tieket a eiditled to 1041001. Thdroutth DAY of Onwinit
will be on the talowint Dey (Tuesday); as such, the Time
fu purchasing must be from Three in the Afternoon, until
Nine the neat M,wning. The Fifth Day of Drawing will, be
on Wednesday, the +Or of February, on which Div 10,0301.
is allotted fir the First drawn Ticket. Warranted Undrawn
Tirkets and Shares are sio Sale at the Offices of Hornsby and
N 05.26, CornIUD; 32, Charing cruel; and St. Margaret's-
Hill, P,urough.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

110Un OF LORDS, JAM. 21.

The Earl of DARTMOU TH reported Ws Ma-
j •sty's answer to the Address of the House, relative
to the Correspondence with Foteign Powers, upon
the subjeft oe the Abolition of the Slave Trade.—
Its pn•port was, that His Majirsty would give orders
accordingly.
Earls Egremont and Sandwich took the oaths and
their seats.
Mr. linkohoure brought up from the Commons,
the Annual Indemnity Bill. It was read a first
time.

.....
The Annual Malt and Pension Bills were seve-
rally read a third time, and passed.
On the Petition of Sir Watkin Lewes being read,
praying, that the House would he graciously plea.ed
to tii.eo) the Marshal of th- King's Bench Prison,
in the Rules of which the Petitioner was confined,
to bring him up to the Rar of the House, to-mm.-
1(m, the Jay fired f"r the hearing of the Appeal
Cause, in which the Petitioner was the Appellant,
and where his presence was materially necessary to
the progress of his sui!,
The LORI) CHANCELLOR having stated a
precedent in the year 176-1., when the House issued
a similar order to the Warden of the Fleet to bring
up a suitor of the House, then in his custody, moved,
fhat the Marshal of the Kirg's Bench Prison be
ordered to bring up Sir Watkin Lewes, on to-mor-
row."

Lord ELDON' submitted to their lordships.
whether it -would not be owe siziaabita. 1014 Bur
improper ciwasertoences should arise from the pre-
cedent. and particularly es the term commenced
on the next day, to discharge the present otder, and
fit the cause fir Fridny, when the l'Pritioner would
have the benefit of A day rule ? Mob m was
put and agreed to.
Mr. Jackson resented at the Bee the plesdings
in the appeal cause, from the Irish Court of Chan-
cery, Lock p. Kennedy.

.S .AV TRADE.
Lord Walsingham presented a Petition from the
Planters and Merchants connected with l'rinidsf,
against the Bill now before the Howe, for the abo-
lition of the Slave Trade.—Ordeted to lie on the
'Fable.
acrd GIIENVILL did not appeal in his place
till five o'clock. Shortly after his Lordship entered
the House, he rose to observe, that he he had teceiv.
ed intimation from several Noble Lords, that it
would be inconvenient for them to attend on Fri-
day, for which day the House was summoned
on the second reading of the Bill to abolish
the Slave Trade. He was always anxious
to consult the convenience of No.ble Lords,
as far as his duty would allow ; it was not
without snore reluctance, however, that he acceded
to the priss, nt request, as he was convinced not
only of the ImpOrance of the measure itself, but of
the propriety and necessity of bringing it under early
discussion: but as an anxiety to acquire the fullest
information en the subject was among the reasons
for requiring further row, his Lordship would move,
" That the order for Friday be dizcharged, for the
purpose of making out a new order for Monday
se'nnight."
The Fad of WFSTMQRLAND thanked the No-
ble Baron for his kind complianceJwith his request,
la he was one of the Nohle Lords who felt the neces-
, sits- of further delay. Indtc.i, in his opinion, suf-
ficient time should be allowed to have the merits of
the measure known sfnd canvimed in every part of
tbe country. It was a measure of infinite inaport-
ance, and could not be too maturely considered.
The question was then pat on lord Crew/tile's
Motion, aid agreed to; atter which
Th 7 Earl of WES I. MGRLANL) actin rase to
move an Adiress to His Majesty, praying that in-
stru9ions might be given, that there be laid before
the House copies of such Correspondence as had
taken j lace some years back between His Majesty's
principal Secretary of State and the Governors of the
West India Islands, respeOing the melioration of the
state and condition of the slaves, and the elfeOs
which the abolition might have upon tlsat comlition.
His objet in moving for these documents were to
shew the zeal with which the planters forwarded the
recommendation of His Majesty on that occasion,
and the little probability there was that the measure
of the abolition would improve the condition of the
slaves.

Lord GRENVILI.F. did not expet that much
advantage would remit from the produCtion of timae
papers. in (Amur of the zeal of the Plasters. in ins.
pmving the condition of their Sl4vrs ; he ,should
not, however, obj-et to it, as that WAS likely to be
one of tt.e topics upon which would turn the sts-
cussion of this important question.
The Earl of Westmorland's Motion rag Om
agreed to, and the Helm adj9erneel.

NVARY 22, 1807

HOUSE OP COMMONS.

The Speaker took the Chair at half past three
o'clock.
On the motioi of Lord GEORGE BERES-
FORD, it was ordered, that the Speaker du issue
his Warrant to the Clerk of the Crown. to make
out a new Writ lox the Eleaion of a Member to
serve in Parliament, for the borough of Coleraine,
vacant by Sir George Fitzgerald having made
choice to serve for the city of Londonderry. he hav-
ing been returned for both the.. places.
A Message from the Lords announced their
Lord hips' acsent to t:,e Malt and l'eusion Duty
Built, for I ?.07.
Sir John Newport brought up a Bill to declare
the rnuoing of the Bill, brought in las; ge.sion.
rrti!tleadn,d "The Cod,
trot)
be
t;er:odurase
selt6lll.7
timeßea dtCla.
1 morrow. td

The Irish Costoess Bill was read a snow} tilos%
and ordered to be comwetted.
Mr. Calcraft presented a Monthly Return of the
effeilive strength of the Royal Artillery, and corps
9f Artificers and fusiteers.—Ordered to lie on
the Table.
On the Motion of Sir JOHN NEWPORT, the
committal rti the Irish EleCtion Bill was postponed
till tn.r,.ortYv.
The Bill for continuing the offer of Service of the
Irish Militia for Six Months after the preset war,
was commrtred, and tl.e Report ordered to be re-
ceived to.snurrow.
LON Dt )NDE?.RY ELECTION.
General WALPOLE moved, tot the purpose of
postponement to the 17th of March, as being a more
convenient day, t• shit the order of the day for tak-
ing into consideration, on Tbursday, the 29th inst.
the petition complaining of an undue return for the
city at Londontierry, be discharged."
Mr. W. DUNI/AS said, this was a motion to
which the house could by no means accede; be-
conic, if he was rightly informed, the grounds ot
delay were too genetal. It was by nn means a
matter at course, and should not pass without some
substantial reasons were assigned to the House.
All that was stated was, that it would be more con-
venient to deter it to the 17th of March. Now he
should put it to the good sense of the House, wise-
thee it would not be exceedingly inconvenient sor
the Sitting Member to be kept in suspense ? and it a
precedent was established of putting otf elsetien
eases for one or two months, the praeltee would be-
come extremely detrimental to the parties concerned,
as well as to the House itself. He begged the
House to belitle, that he had no more reason tot
opposing this postponement, than what he bad neard
at the moment of its being proposed.
Gen. W A LPOL.E staid, .hat the 1111.:
be &signed was the same as that rated by
the Right Hon. Gentreman hens:sit, on a former
day, relative to the Aberdeen Petition, via. the
great distance from London. He has k ttown some-
times the space of three weeks occupssd oa a pas-
sage from Ireland.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, that if the ease
was in any degree analogous to the one in wilier, he
was concerned, it might be probably necessary toe
the Irish agent to conic over to this courtry, and to
prepare himself in certain preliminary steps it:gaited
by law, and to make out a list of the persons ob-
jeded to, which WAS one of the obieds of the DUI
he had lately brought into Pat:home-M. The Sitting
Member, no doubt, only enjoys his seat at the risk ot
being dislodged at the will of the House ; but
at the same time, it was certainly fur the interest of
the Petitioner to bring forward the business tairlys
frilly, and speedily, to trial. It must be manifest to
every Gentleman, that when the sea intervenes be-
twixt this and the plate contested ter, that mush
more time must be allowed to be occupied, than in
the performance of a journey by la id. The motion
was for en object perre.2!y consistent with jostioe, in
every sense at the word, and the case was equally,
or more, entitled to indulgence, than that 01 the
Aberdeen Petition.
Mr. Wit...U.lot TILYNDAS added, that in the
Aberdeen case alluded to, the two parties agreed to
the postponement ; but in this one, the sitting Mem-
ber called for the proteCtion ot the House.
Mr. PERCEVAL said, he wished every Gentle-
man would orgy put the question to his own breast,
and say, whet! er he would feerhis situation so com-
fortable, as when the bufit.ess of his eleCtion was •
ultimately :feuded npon. He should like to know,
what the Hon. G.oitlernan, who petitioned, had beets
doing during the six weeks the Petition had been
lying upon the Tattle. Instead of adjourning two
months for the purpose of getting this Irish Agent,
he might have been brought over during these six
weeks.
Gen. WALPOLE answered, that the Petitioner
was absent in Ireland upon military duty.
Lord HOWICK spoke in layout it the proposed
postponement, and observed, that the Litt:bun al-
luded to was one of the last that took place in Le-
land, and that six weeks had not yet transpired.
Mr. ROSE aid ant think that sufficient reason
had been alleged for delaying this business.
Ms. C. W. WYNNE certainly teit it to be
the duty of every Member, to scrutinize most n ir-
rowly the grounds for granting indulgences ct Sas
nature ; hut, at the same tine, tney ought to take
case not to carry their rules In o• r as to shut out
substantial justice. He thought etas this case was
fully entitled to the delay sought for.
Lord GEORGE BERESFORD bad only to
observe, that he did rot receive notice ot the Pe-
tition till the 3d uf January, and during the interval
tae had had complete time to have several comma-
nications with Ireton f ; and *pots the same prin-
ciples, he saw an season why the Petitioner might
nor have prepared his evidence, and procured tau
agents from that country. He theretore objeBcd to
the delay.
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the
House divided : —Fdt the motions tib—Agatnst
it, 14.7Maictrity

(PRICE SIXPENCE.

ARMY
ISTTMATT
Lord CAST4,EREAGH—" Previnusly to the
House going into a Committee of Supply, to coo.
sider the Army lrujrnates. I should wish to ask a
question of the Riglia Secretary opposite, re-
lative to his Military plan. I unsierstond that it was
not his (Mr. IVindhem's) intention, or that rid those
Ministi rs who auistediu bringing forward his Mili-
tary System, that the soldiers who enlisted into the
service price to the 25th disarm last, should be ma-
titled to any indulgence, except those which related
to pay and allowattees of pensioni. I wish to know
whether, in point of fa& he meant to extend
these indulgences to the discharging of such soldiers
who have served fur the space of 21 years, or sale -
thee they are to be continued, and merely to be en-
titled to an increase of pay?"
Mr. Secretary WINDHAM answered, that his
oplaiw upue that point continued the same as for.
Mierly. It was exceedingly desirable, that such sol-
diers should have every iminigence. /t bad Pees
loft a matter of ehnice with several ellen under tech
ercumstances, and they had not accepted tel their
disoha,ge.
The SECRETARY at WAR then matted.
" That the several Estimates of the Army laid be-
fore the Iltoese upon the 14th instant, together wish
the several Estimates of the Cemmissariat and Bar-
rack Department, presented by Mr. Vansieert upon
the 15th instant, be referred to the consideration of
the Committee of Supply,"
The House then went into the said Committee,
Mr. I laseoust io the Chair.
The SECRETARY at WAR again vise, and
addressing the Committee, spoke neely to the
following pwport :—.• Mr. Hobbouse, in tak;ng
a general view of the Army Estimates of this year,
they will be found so similar to those of the former
year, that I shall not be under the necessity of entering
much at large, or very minutely, i nto de tail tattoo every
separate Estimate, and describing partice,fari.y alsa
vat lois; military services to which they at t applied.
The additional vatiehei of service have ted.ted etc.
cessarily occir.iontel some creation, in print of the
number of men to be provided for by these Estie
mates, awn:ming nearly to 5 300 men, end in potet
of charge to 9 1761. as appears .43 a general view
of the whole of these d esuments. This may appear
to be a very near coincidence with fetmer years, whelk
the extei.t of the milli ary changes i. considered; hiss.
sir, it is occasioned by an increase in some of the
species of f ;ice, and a decrease in others. I'haU.
therefore, only notice those variations where they
are considerable. The seek of the original Este-
blithmeat continues pretty seemly epos the sarat
footing at in :time of the former years. The caval-
ry regiments continue et consist of about Kelmen.
'rue infantry in battalions of 12a0, 10114.14140. wadi a
*rime caws 4fY..) men. l shall take toe twa first
Elimites together, namely those for Guards and
Corrisoras, and fur Forces in Plantattoris, Which
ia-
el the whole body af our military force at horn.
home and abroad. In these two Estimeres, taken
ennjunetly, there will be found to be an increa.e
fur the present year, amounting to 241,5371.
Sir, appears a COTl•ider Able SUM ; aril, rh re-
fore, I shalt shortly state what has occasioned it.
There has been one new Irish reg;ment raeo.
ashen is one of those ordered to be tai.ed Lome
years ago. there have been t Garrison Battalions
harmed ear the purpose cif receiving those men
whose services were limitec( tinder the Defence Age
Sit battalions have been homed (or the service
of the q arisen at Ca lads ; and Ceres have been
instituted, called the Rnyal African Corps, and two
compares have been al fed to that part of them
which was serving in the W: ;t ladies and America.
There are also l I coay•tees added to the Seelieu
troops attached to the S:rviee of the Wend of ti'cilye
in conjunction with the inhuhitants amnia, in de-
fence nt their country. 'tete what air increase
in the Staff for foreign sesvite, originating from the
expeditions which have been set on foot. These
are also some Commissary appointments arising
from the same cause. Siecc the month rut June last,
the Staff expences will amount to 10,0001. allowing
for e whole year, from the 23th of fiat month.
the total additional sixpence of the forces I hale
enumerated as being lately formed, amnuats to
439,7321. ten the other hand, the decrease to which
have alluded, consists in the redteeion of certain
battalions in the Indian scesece, and from the cis-
cumstan:e of others being now to be intillided in the
Indian Estimates; and aka the redueimi of the
Royal Waggon Frain, 'moulding in all to 37,0001.
Various deduaions, from different battalions,
amounting to 81,7711. Besides these, there has
bees a saving in the transfeteuce of troops train the
Irish ffstabliskenent, of about 30,0°01. All these,
and others more immaterial, put together, and de-
duEted from the 439 7321. leave' the balanceewhich
I have stated, of e 41,5371. as increase upon thee.
two Estimates. The nett Estimate which I shall
take notice of, is that of the Public Departtnents, on
which there will be found to be as increase of
44,2531. Of that sum, 40,0001. is on account of
Excnequer Bills, to meet the exigencies of true pre-
Milt year. There is also an Melees, of a certain
number of Oiti:ets, brougnt into tis Estimate.
which used formerly to be p tid out of the Eutaw..
dinaries of the Army—a plan which i. always de-
sirable, synth any anoint cannot he ascertained
with certainty ; but it may he possible to posh that
principle to a further extete than, in my opinion it
would be my di, to do. There have `seen addi-
tional devisees attendingehe ofßee of toe Com-
mander in-Chief, amounting to 7.5601. ; the Ad-
jetant•Cieneral's office, 3,0771.; Quarter-Motet-
General, 2,4671. ; InseeltoriGeneeel of the Re-
cruiting Service, 66571. ; making altogether, an
these several officesoan iocreassd expence •it 19,3611.
Sir, there are also ,rinse eijitio is to other offices
which have lately taken place, suer as ewer of the
Paymaster-General, the Judge-Advocate, Comp.
troller of the Cowed Accounts, making abort
1.131. Tile sins reerate which I shell meth.

.

!

t

if

^ • ,"161
• •

meats of last year. I mean the Estimate of t"te
expence of the Out-l'ensionets af
Oa!, the increase upon which• nfeat•nuturally be
' e mceived to be pretty *l ibsider able on account
of the m...asures lately 1-adopted, amounting to
ro less than 113,1711. The next Estimate I
mention, is one upon which thire is a pretty
considerable decrease. although a large sum re-
mains still to !,e provided—l mean the expence of
Volunteer Co; ps, the decrease upon which Estimate
amounts to 248,5001. for the Volunteers of Eng-
lund ; while there is art increase upon the same
Estimate of no less than 36%0001. for those of
1r: land, occasioned by the circumstance of its
having teen found necessary to maintain the Vo-
lunteer Establishment of that country, upon perma-
nent chaty for four months, instead of one month,
which was formerly reckoned at 119,0001. Upon the
Estimate of Foreign Corps, there is a decrease ap.
p trendy, but not one which can be said to be saved
altogether to the public. It arises from the trans-
I•r of the Artillery of the German Legions from
the o,4lneace Department to the War-Office. Al.
though. therefore, in peint of fact, a smaller sum
has been stated, and appari ntly a decrease of
133,3591. yet it is not to be looked upon as an ac-
ute! !Awing The last Estimate is one which is
entirely near ; I mein that of the Compassionate
List. The funds originally aporApelaied to 't were
those arising from a saving from the Halt.pay List,
which, however, have been found inadequate. As no
such sum h is thence arisen, and as the amount of a
charity of that kind cannot he particularized,
the most probable amount of it may be stated at no
snore than 1211001. The Committei will consider
alit there may be many eases where sttong motives
occur for ex•ending the charity I allude to, towards
Widows and Orphans of Soldiers who have (alien
in their Country's cause, hut the utmost that has
as yet been given, is 201 a year. The neat
subject I shall allude to, is, the contingencies,
which cannot be stated precisely ; but nore of them
are of treat magnitude; and therefore cannot pro-
perly be enumerated upon the present occasion ;
but should they afterwards appear No any g 'nee-
man ta rrquire explanation, 1 shall teal great sa•
tisfatlion in affording it. On the whole of these
Estimates, Sir, I may now observe, that they have
been made up with the utmost attention, and in put.
seance "f the strietr. regvd publi.: economy ; a
fan which 1 have no doubt will he obvious to every
one w o will read tnem over with deliberation. In
stating the gross amount of them. I must allude
to the sum contained in the Estimates of last
year. and Wl7lCh have been already pr•i. id?ci for.—
In nr•irr to give to the Cororni tee a comp:l,7'3[l\Y
view M t;.e whole. I may stet, that the Est•m.ttes
of lass sear amounted to 13 UJ:),SSII. exclthiee at
additional pay and allowances, while the Estins.!es
now to be voted, fur 1807, exclusive also of these
11.1144,F:a charges, amount, as newly as possi-
ble, to the sum of 14,160.9511. Is.. 4d making
an increase. in 1807, to the amount of 224,60012
Here the Eight Hon. Secretary entered into a stat -
went c.f the various additional espe,:ces which oc-
easwoned the above•difference betwixt the two tears,

which it v. culci be tedious to enumerate. i• An )n.

Member (cominusd the Right kion. General) has
given tes notice, that he means t) follow these
Estimates up with a charge against Ministers, of
• wasting the public money ; but 1 have to observe.
-tat if he takes into consideration what has
' been the raving upon the whole eolleOively,
• sines the change of Administration. I believe he
will find it extrem.ly difficult to 11x any each charge
against them. I beg leave to state to that Hon.
-Gentleman, that when his Majesty's Ministers
•iame into office, the establishment then in (twee, if
• provided tor, according to former ratos. would have
°amounted to nn less than 14,900,0001. Had mat-
• tern continued as they were, Ministers must have
tame to Parliament, with Estimates probably
an mating to that sum. Upon the whole, I have
no doubt but there will be found to have
been a saving of nearly a million sterling.
It may Fe expected Our I should say something in
reg••d to the measures which were adopted last
Sersi,,n. The Training Bill has been already
adopted, and pat in a state of exectrion. as far es
possible. As to the 1/4,l•.::.teets, it will be satisfac.
tory to the House. and to the country at large, to
learn, that all these apprehensions and melancholy
predictions, as to that respectable holy being resi-
• tiered discontented with the new azrangeuicnt which
I. bad taken place. are now pet tectly groundless.
No uneasiness of the kind appears to prevail amongst
them. It is true, that durng these misreptesems
atinns, some misunderstanding and discontent was
treated amoagst that respectable body, but any
apparent inactivity was more to he attributed to
the state
rd with ardourtitottwhaeEtire,tinu antoad sm any
yedntishiuncilainatitffi to come in
its defence. implibrion can he attributed to
that patriotic body, merely because, at present,
there is no apprehension of immediate invasion
Should the enemy again thie.o.en to inv..de us, I
have no doubt but the Volunteers will creme ler-
watd with the same spirit and alacrity. These has
been only the number of i f ,elt6 Volunteers who have
withdiawn themselves, in consequence of the new
Regulations, and there still remains of them the
numher of 303,000. Another mresute which I shall
men- ion, is one which occasioned much discussion in
this House-1 mean the Ate; ation 1.1 tie system :4
lectuitirg. Although Ido not wish to take lip the
anew inn of the House,upen a measure which can be
more ably explained by others; yet I may recall to
the recollettion of the House, that about ten or
twelve years ago. I urged such a measure, although
unstieressfuily I never imagined, that the alter-
•anon of that system was to produce any great and
-sudden change. I only locked to it as a gradual
improvement in the meats i.f ..sling to the number
of our army •, and I have teason to think, that as
• far as it has hitherto heel, tried, it has not answered
our utmost erprefttion ; but I do urst oral tat it
has )et ir.dergone vet...per ;miff of its be:tell:lel
efFeEts. It is. indeed, rather pr..mature to human
accurate or precise estimate of its emcees. Ido
not 'net. lid to says that the imotoveutent in the
recruitirs of the army, has ariscn solely fines the
alteration; but this I c.in i 7 with safety, that the
two great ohjeas whisk= I always ccusidered as
meet material in tecruitiWg, have been attendid•with
• the wished-foe asie::e4.••••zl mean 'bet of rho lower
bounty iiAving produced a r: acre number of 'min ;
sad also, that a very cessitivtable dienitsurd:m has

taken place in desertion. These alone, are two very
great improvements ; the facilitating the recruiting,
and the diminishing desertion ; and I shall be borne
out in saying, that both these advantages have been
occasioned by die alteration of the system." Gene-
ral Fitzpatrick then concluded with moving, as the
first Res.alution. . .

...
That 113,795 effevive men, including commiaieined and
Otiose, W enployeel in the seorice of Hu
Maj-stc, for Greet Britain amt Ireland, from the Tolt of De-
centhm, 1506, to the 25th Dftember, 1607, tucluitee.
Immediate!, after the first Resolution was pro-
posed from the Chair.
Lord CASTLEREAGH rise and said, that it
WAS almost impossible fur any person, even aft-r
having given the utmost attention to the subject. to
state his opinion to the House, with accuracy and
precision, up. in the point in discussion, it being a
question so extensive, and involving so materially
the general policy of the country ; and far less was
it possible for any one to ascertain the degree of
success expel ienced from the measures of last Ses-
sinn. He really thought, that Parliament were
placed in a case of extraordinary difficulty, upon
the present occasion. He certainly imagined, when
Parliament was called upon rie me-t at an unusual
period, that there was some great measure of public
importance, tending to the secutity of the coun-
try, to he proposed. Up to the present moment,
however, they had t been told, that any
thing was in agitation. arther than the common
routine of businev. etcepting the late cli.cusston
upon Ote Negociation. Even that matter ought to
have been discussed at a more convenient period
than at if: Christmas Holidays, when a more
general attendance of Mentoers soul have been
,xpefted. A Right Hon. Ge, tleman had lately
given notice, that on Monday neat he should move
• th • House to vote the atidttional aum' er of 10.000
seamen ; and although he was tar from disapprov-
ing of such a vme, yet he highly disapproved of
the precipitancy with whit., it was proposed. He
had to lament that Parliament should he under the
necessity of voting the /army Estimates, under the
circumstances in which the House was placed, in
not being able. to distinguish the old hum the new
system, owing to their ....e been taken collec-
tiv sly. He conceived the new system to be one
which it was impossible for Parliament or the coun-
try to adhere to. This manner of proceeding was
highly improper towards a new Parliament ; to call
upon them, at the very moment of their assembling.
to vote for a system which it WAS impossible they
could thoroughly know the nature iif. It would, in
his opinion, have been more proper to have adopted
what was proposed upon a framer night, to vote a
certain sum on account. He thought that the Right
lion. Gentleman had taken too limited a view of
the subjed. He (the Secretary at War) had said
a great deal for the purpose cf sheaving the great
economy adopted by the present Ministry ; but he
had lint. in doing so, compared that supposed
ecnnortoy with the real strength of the force esta-
blished. The House had not been indulged with a
stateneent, with a comparative statement of the ex-
isting establishment, and the provision which Par-
Latium were called upon t. vote for their subsist-
mica. There was no positive proof that there was
any rational hope of having men to consume the
provision which Parliament were calEd upon
to supply. As to their boaste I economy, he
need only state that the 240,0001. alluded to was
a saving upon the establishment alone, and
not a savior; upon the aaual strength of the
Country, or upon the effellual means of defending
ourselves against the eneroy. He thought it his
duty to state, that the Right Hon. Gentleman had
not -stated any case sufficiently strung to justify
P ornament to vote to the extent proposed. There
was nothing done since last Parliament, which could
lead the Country to be lulled into a state of repose,
although he might admir that the enemy were at
present very remote from troubling our internal
tranquillity, their great force being upon the Vis-
tula. When the House last discussed this subjea,
the enemy were on the borders of Hungaty.
Since that time, the prospeUs tat peace were no
ways increased ; and, indeed, no steps had
been taken towards it ; no means had been
taken for carrying on offensive operations.—
Lt was fu ly in the contemplation, and formed part
of the plans of the late Ministry, to increase the
army, by adding an effeCtive force of from 20 to
000 men ; end he had no hesitation to state to the
Right Hon. Gentleman, the particular measures on
which His Majesry's late Ministers relied ; at the
same time that he must do justice to the memory
of a Minister (M. Fox) now no more, to say, that he
expressed a marked dissatisfaaion, and even indig-
nation, at the 410.4 of a diminution of the army, aiid
that his ambition was to see the country maintain its
wonted fame upon the Continent. He was justified,
upon the aethority of that Right Hon. Gentleman,
in staittir , that it was intended a great augmentation
of the Army should take place beyond what it was
last S scion, and that no praaicable means should
be dispensed with, to carry that measure ii.tu execu-
tion. Het: ought, therefore, that the House had a
right to expea much from His hl tjesty's present %li-
miters, in general, but particularly from one indivi-
dual among them ( Mr. Windham), who had attacked
and maligned Lord Sidmouth's Administration, as
well as Mr. Pitts, which succeeded it ; and who
had even asserted, that they had disgraced them-
',Otos by the inefficacy of their military mea-
sures, and that these two Governments should
be displaced, in order to give way to a Go-
vernment, which should have his confidence ; and
one, in which his pet tonal interference was expect-
ed. with a view of securing a military force, which
Should be deemed sufficient for the permanent de-
fence of the Country. Lord Castlereagh thee pro-
, corded in state what the increase of the army had
been under Mr Windham's manage newt, compar-
ed with that `gentleman's statement of what it
should be I composing, at the same time, his state-
ment. with that of the pi:ceding government,
which had inctured that Right H m. Gentleman's
censures. The rank and file of the army, at the
beginning of last March (when the change of Mi-
,
musts took place,) amounted to 248,782 ; the
gross amount no the Ist of January last
WAS 54,6fia, making an increase in the
mason of ten months, of a,88:3 men. The in-
crease, as far as respeard the Militia, was. during
the came period. something better than 1000 men ;
but this fell far short of what was proposed,
aamely, an increase of between 20_aud 30,000 men.

And even with respe& to the nature of this increase, '
it appeared from the Accounts on the Table, that
betwixt the beginning of January and the middle of '
June last. 5,854 men had been raised under the Ad-
ditional Force Al ; so that, had it not been for the
increasing opera::'-in of the Aft of that lamented
statesman, Mr. ntt, Anil that at a time when this
Aft was suffering under the r-rated attacks of the
Right Hon. Ge.itleasass opposite, the Army wiiuld
be ailnally found sot to have receive I any in-
crease whatever since Parliament last deliberated on

the subjelt of the Army; and had not the Right
Honcurable Gentleman consented to the Motion of
an Honourable Friend of his, in relation to the re-
cruiting the Army in Ireland, he would at this time
have appeued before Parliament under the humi-
liating circumstances of an a:my decreased. Go-
vernment, in the mean time, had been diverted from
the idea of naive operations on the Continent,
whilst they had been diverted .by the enemy in a
protrafted neyociation. row, however, the coun-
try was called on to aft on a more enlarged
sc ale than during the earlier part of the war ; hence
Renter casualties must be expeeed, causing greater
deficiencies in the net amount of our forces ; and

it would then be a difficult question to decide, as to
the comparative d.flerence betwixt a state of peace,
without a prosped of its continuance, or a war lan-
guishing through a species of philo.;ophic military
system, unoperative as to any atglive, vigorous, or
offensive measures. He trusted, however, that the
public zeal, and the ardent mind of the Right Hon.
Gentleman, not to mention the regard he must en-
.

Certain for fits own name and character, would suf-
ficiently stimulate him, and that in these the country
would find its best pledge of the Right Honcurable
Gentlemen's exertions. IVlren the Right Honour.
able Gentleman was in opposition, he had stated,
that such was the state of the country, that not a
mom,nt was to be lost to repair the mistakes of the
former Administrations. The growth of the Army,
however, under these Administrations, must lead a
new Parliament to parse and doubt the policy cif that
measure, as it respeaed the Army, which the pro-
luaion of the Estimates now called upon the
House to consider; and he hoped, also, that it
would even excite a distrust in the mind of the
Right Honourable Gentleman opposite, with re.
sped to the tendency and effea of his own measures,
and render him more candid in appreciating the
measures of others. From the Ist of July, 1803,
to 1404, during Lord Sidmouth's Administration,
the attacks of the Right Hon. Gentleman had been
almost incessant on the military measures of that
Administration. and yet the result of one single
effort of Lord Sidmonth's Admininration, had been
to raise the a• my from Ist July 1803. to Ist July,
1804, from 99 342 men, to 110,199, making au
i crease of 40, 777 men. Still, however, the mi-
litary criticisms of the Right Hon Gentleman
were not exhausted, so that till the very close of that
Administration, he continued spurring the House on
to the adoption of new measures. That Adminis-
tration continued in office till February, 1806, when
the military force actually amounted to 173,600
men, making an additional increase of 35,481 men;
whereas, from the middle of Feb. last, to the present
time, being the petiod of the Military Administra-
tion of the Right Hon Gentleman, an increase,
amounting to scarcely 5000 men, was to be found;
and but for the existence and operation of Mr.
Pitt's Additional Force Act, he could not have
shown the inc • of a man ; but must have con-
fessed the present army to be either stationary, or
wasting. The two preceding Governments bad
been overturned by the Kight Hon. Gentleman, and
made to give way to the introduction of his ex-
tended military schemes, at the same time, express-
ing himself disposed to carry the military glory of the
country upon the Continent, and beyond the plan
broug'lt forward by Mr. Pitt. Lord Castlereagh
declared he anticipated the failure of Mr. Wind-
ham's plan, from the absurdity of the object that was
aimed at, which was the reverse of adopting a sober
praaicable system of military policy. The Right
Hon. Gentleman had in effect called upon the House
to look to the effect of his recruiting system, after
it was disincumbered of the disadvantages of Mr.
Pitt's system. The produce of 1805 did not differ
beyond 10110, or from 1 to 2000 above the average
produce of for mer years ; and with regard to the an-
nual produce nt 1806, it amounted to I I ,8:10, includ-
ing the new regiment of Yagers, whilst the annual
prodna of 1805 was 11,677, exclusive of that new re-
giment ; so that it appeared, te last yenr was a less
productive year, even when the recruiting was dis-
incumbered (as the Right I lon. Gentleman stated
it), from former incumbrauces and difficulties ; and
when he had also, during the last five months, the
advantage of men coming direaly into the service,
instead of the circuitous manner formerly ; and if
it did not appear that any had entered into the army
under the impressicn of the Righ Hon. Gentleman's
system, but that the recruiting went on much in the
usual ratio, the unavoidable inference is, that the
Right lion. Gentleman's system had failed. This,
' though in one repel a melancholy refleaion, yet
would be consolatory in another, if it served to rouse
the Right Hon. Gentleman to new exertions. In
1803 there were obtained, cn the exploded system,
above 93,000 men, exclusive of above 9900 Fo-
reigners ; whilst the whole amount of the system of
the Right Honourable Gentleman, with all the
advantages attending the military ♦olunteering
in Ireland, was betwixt 13 and 14.000 men.—
Thus, upon comparing the old and new systems,
it appears, that the Law experiment has totally
failed, and that it has been attended with the
large increased caprice of 493,0001. without pro-
ducing to the country one single man. Nor was
this the whole expence, for the Noble Lord
(Ilowick) then at the head of the Admit ratty, found
the necessity of carrying forward the additional
expellees of the Navy, in a correspondence with the
increased pay to the Army; so that this unfortunate
experiment may he computed at 500,0001.and,includ-
ing the additional expenses of the Navy, between
7 and 8(0,0001. without its producing any praftic.zi
advantages to the Country And under what cir-
cumstances was this extraordinary experiment press-
ed upon the hue Parliament ? It was at a time
when the ordinary recruiting amounted to between
and !)000 men annually ; and whe , in the four
months immediately preceding, the rocrui,ing was
higher Irian it had been during any corresponding pe-
riod, since March 1803. It was at a time when Mr.
I'itt's Additional Force Bill was continuing to pro•

p
iarit
nyiuorsa. ctgnp:
mnrct, u.teten:ra
above,7,nl,lr
e)e r7set:
rco:a.ahnspl
ellorevero:edepriusrLpveeli
om:kanlvtinphyfie,ya: turortfireits;soerria:pefntrn
experiment,
ttts),
tht,miret
02
,etticlo 0
oeb
ep
Gemce fyye
t.
eca
of the Right Hon. die Secretary at War. that 87ee
men wear proposed, above the present efee„
strcr.gth of the army. !Ministers, he thought, ought
to bring forward such an auxiliary measure up, a
gond grotiuds, instead of discovering a fuoda,
mental weakness by such abortive attempts. 13„,
no such auxiliary measure has as yet been at.
tempted tote produced. although credit is soen
t.
ed to be taken in the Estimate to that amount....
Here a new Parliament wns bounce to make 4 stele
and not to commit themselves to the difadvantager,
mischiefs, and dangers, of such a system, trots
especially when accompanied with a new code and
set of regulations. He thought he perceived tie
Right Hon. Gentlem,ii discovered a scant of cee
fidence in his own system, and that he could Ile
safely discharge the number of men as first propusel
by his plan. Since the new code if regulations, %meet
His Majesty's warrant. had been laid upon the table.
every idea of daneer which the Rt. Hon.Gentlemar'r
system had created in his mind, appeared to tie full
filled. He felt himself bound by that sense of public
duty, which he owed his country, to warn and cautice
the House ; and he should therefore endeavour is
embrace some future opportunity of bringing the
subject into detailed discussion, either when tee
Mutiny ala ssas br-ught forward, or else hymnist
some specific zezolvriens on these points, in whin,
as appeared to him, the plans of the Right Re.
Gentleman were likely to involve the country is
military ruin. His Lordship siad, he wished shcnly
to call the attention of the Hiause to the circles.
stances of these new regulations, to which His Ma-
jesty's warrant had been affixed. In his opinion, ter7
went not only to produce a materiel additional es.
pence, but even to subvert all that military suber.
dinatinn, so essential to form the charaEter of a sel.
diet. This code went se far as to aihiw the alike to
put in his claim to a pension. on the footing of ak.
gal demand, instead of being introduced by atter!.
sentation from his superior Officer. Claims were
also to be established on the part of the sold er atm
should be found to be unfit for service, of from Ct.
to Is, bd. a dey (so far a discretion was to he leh
with the Board at Kilmainham, as to the specific
amount of these pensions) ; and by this order, every
soldier disabled, and whose disability does not arise
from vice or misconduet, has a legal right to a pen-
sion, without any difference as to the time of
service, and shy without the a.cessity of obtaining
a recommendation from a superior offirer. It was
impossible to say to what extent, in point either of
number or sixpence, such a measure as this
might be carried. Again, there was found in the
code a regulation, that all soldiers above 21 years
in the service. were to be entitled to a pension of me
shilling a day. Allowing the soldier to be then .3
years of age, upon a calculation of life insurances.
his age afterwards would be 17 years, daring whits
he would be entitled to 121 a-year more, with &nth-
crease according to additional years. Thus the
Right lion. Gentleman created a difficulty so great,
that he could not but dread the precipice to which
it led him, whilst he put his hands into the public
purse, by a great and burdensome bounty to the
soldier. Thus he found himself reduced to this
dilemma, whether at a certain perind he would
divest the country of the soldiers' services, or eetaia
them at an expence of about 84,000). a-year, or
about three-fourths of their eau.' existing pay?
Another point to be noticed in the Right Hen.
Gentleman's experiment. was that of altering
the time of service, and asserting that two
years service in some parts, should be Considered
as equal to three years in others. Now it was
well known, that though the climate of the Wen
Indies was reckoned unwholesome, yet in the East
Indies no material difference was found in point of
health between that country and this, yet the Right
Hon. Gentleman had put both these services on the
same footing ; so that a soldier who had served 14
years in the East Indies, was deemed equal with one
who had served 21 years in this country, and, as
soch, entitled to the same pension. Now, suppos-
ing such a soldier went out to India at 18, he then
becomes a Veteran at 32, and entitled to retire en
a pension of 131. ss. a year. Ae equal chance re-
nt:Ant (agreeably to the calculation of life insete
antes) that his life will remain 28 years longer,
which would entail an expence on the comatiy, for
every so! tier in these circumstances, of above 5001.
Now, how, he would ask. c(eild the country contend
for any length of time against a system of such an
expensive nature ? Or, supposing that the soldier
ehotild choose to coniiiiiie in India fur eight years
longer (aud he believed there were but few in-
stances of soldiers, after being such a lengeh cf
time in that country, being desirous of returning)
these eight additional years would he reckoned as
equivalent to twelve years. This would entitle him
to a pension of Is. 6J. a day. or 271. 76. 6d. a year.
The probable duration of such a man's life, after
this period, would be 22 years, and this 271. 7s. bd.
would be allotted him for each year's past service;
so that, in point of fait, you give him that sum
annually, in addition to all his pay as a soldier. la
short, there was no end to the expence which such
a system as this would bring upon the country.
Again, looking to the - retrenchment of a future
Peace Establishment, when a great part of the
Army must be disbanded, perhaps of 60 or 70,000
out of the three classes, it must be determined to
which of these classes to give their discharge. For
the sake of economy, it would be requisite th re the
discharge should be made from amongst those of
the first class ; but then this would he to discharge
the Q ewer of the Army. To obviate this difficulty.
the Right Hon. Gentlemen attempts, in await!
part of his system, to coned this pare of it, by sue
pulating that soldiers of the second chess should obey
the regulations of the Board of Officers, and ini
bMk to be recalled into service, ind.ed Govern-
ment could not fail to cell on t'.e services of such
men between thirty anti forty years of age. In
short,Rigt 111elocnoomurpellaileined Gentleman's
the general
tlemin,s,y te
sirnir re
not
,::tuflythatts
being buit upon the ground of thew y, but on ac-
count of the infelliLle mixture twins the face
of it, which appeared frem the document s.ll the
table. li the Right HOW ureble Gentternar) email
not be induced to desist from this plan, which Lea

teed against me as he advances, and the increase
and pay of the army are not the least consilerahle
If, to grant allowances to veterans, worn out in the
service of their King, after having spent the fl wet
of youth and the vigour of manhood is the defence
of the empire, be a reproach, it is a reproach fro:-
which I shall, as far as I have been instrumental
ever feel the strongest feelings of satisfaction ; end
in the support of which, I freely consign myself to
the constderat'on of the British empire—to the de-
cision of this House—to e'e judgment of posteriry-•
and to the c•.:;nizartr,.! of any tribunal, human or
divine. The N.,ble Lout has arraigned the system,
which I thougbs it my duty :o sub nit, during the
last Session, to the crms. aeration of Parliament, to I
which was countenaticed by the approbation of the
Legislature. He has arraigned it on the principle
of a calculating economy ; an economy pArticillarly
serviceable in any scheme wh ch had fort s object,
the most praltLable and efficient method for stare
ing a great prwpoi lion of our popula-ion. But it
is not on the mere narrow ptinciple of an un-
due economy, that the question should be discussed;
nor was there in the system I had the honour to ietro-
duce, that degree of novelty and rash experiment, so
frequently attributed to it by the N ,ble Lord and los
friends, ol the opposite side of the House. A pro-
vision was made in the reign of Charles the Second,
regule•leg the pay and allowances fur the military
force When we. therefore, almost everyday hear
id as in ruse of salaries, in consequence of a enn-
s•leratite rise in the value of every necessary of life.
And the very great dr;:reciatien of money, are, I
say, these considerations, so justly proludive of an
augm mania of allowance to every other class of
the State, intirely to be overlook-d, with respect to
those gallant med. who had passed their lives and
• shed their blood, in supporting the credit, charader.
and aro', ity t: ,e British mpire ? rhe Noble Lnrd
has also as wed, that an increase of pay to the
Navy, was the consequence of the system which
made an additi in to the allowances ot the Army.
Here he has Bert sinly been guilty of an enechrontsm ;
because the increase of pay to the Navy was not
only Iwo", in point of time, to that of the Army.
bat the naval increase made a preportionete aug-
mentati n ot milt. try pay absolutely necessary. But
was no such necessity in existence, and were boil
myself and my Hnn. Friend ar 'h- head of the Ad-
mushy, each, individually, at different cornets of
this House. to propose specific measures for incleiks-
ing the allnwance of the military and naval este-
idedinientS, 4 precedence must have taken place.
rim fad ot the case was, that an efficient suh-
sisteace should be afforded. To say that the
country was unable to afford such an efficient
eobsistence, was to assume a proposition, to which
the resources of the empire were the best refutation.
Indeed, it was ritually idie to set up ouch a pica as
it was inconsistent with benevolence And impartiality
to rettsse tie increase. Inc increase in itself was
warranted by the in:rii.sic merits of those to whom
it imineffietely applied. bus the rite .uragement
general s,erit of military pursuits was incidental.
it ~perat-d a, a powerful inducement with all
those w inclinations leaned towards the pro-
fession or ar ns Bin he Noble Lord has repre.
ante' ill those wh., were allured to the military
service by a consider itio.i of tie rime they would be
obliged t-i serve, cad the cnosevent benefits
'hey woule derive by u.:a a service, as a tuick•
ine bargaining people. allured by -so other induce-
men., .nd attuved by an other impulse, than the
pi• sped nr mitres , merely ie,_ • use t icy fairly look-
ed t.r a retreat it. t sir old a. . r how widely dd..
t •- at are my views on the subjel. conceiving that
e hjeet of all those w.. 0 ml. !ed Upthl the terms of
At • Nceste L..rd. was to receive a i or4e bounty for
t. parense of expendrig it in ti .t, drudlc.o..ess,
and every species of ,ie•••whery. flie induce-
meats arisiag merely from the bounty were injurious
to discipline, whilst those of a limited set- rice,
wi'h the premised of a retreat in old age, wee
calculated to preserve it in the most consptcuous
manner. The hope men so enlisting entertained.
was A pledge of their good and solder-i helve-
viour, du- ing the whole period of their anual ser-
vice. In truth, the more the system is considered,
i. will be found to bring men into the military Fe o-
f .s.ion upon the hest term, and of the best descrip-
tion. Even with respell to the principle ot eco-
nomy on which the Noble L rd so much enlarged.
the . resell system has strong claims to preference;
Int not only hiss the reel uiting under the present
system, compared with the corresponding periods
of the last year. aft tta ly inc:eastel in the propnr-
than of two to one, hut there on a comparison
with respee to the boonties, between the same pe-
riod ant the present time, an adual redudion of
five guineas in each bounty. it cannot be said that
I have ewer been over sanguine as to the immediate
effeds of this measure; hut, at the same time,
I never did, or do I intend to confine the prim.
vole to this reditetion ; tor I am fully mien-Iced,
that when the measure is well known and :stied
upon, when it is AS it were work. d into the observ,s-
'ion and notoriety of the great body of the people,
tie mom ot the bounty altogether will be the
natural consequence. rie- Noble Lotd has taken
great pities to .eparate the ••o t ty from the period
of re-enlistment. and the condiiinn coupled with
tee secocd engagement. In my opinion. or at least
ins any view of the suojee, they ougot to be consi-
iered as emeaistent. For, observing the effect of
the condition of re-enlistment, in t• e way the Noble
Lord was pleased to pot it. let us suppose a cessation
I imstiljtjes, and a rime of peace veiled, irrhen.it
may be thought edviseaLle to disband a certain pro-
portion of our Military Log dish:ingot. He has ask-
ed, is it from the first eau. composing the yotith and
!hirer et your Army, such a selection would be made?
Certainly ni .t ; but from those other classes which, at
she breaking out of a new vrar, w mid I Littlish you with
a ready.disciplined force; soldiers enrolled, and a.eu•
ally prepare' tor the pertormanceof any military duty.
Such a system has been recognised by many state,
ot l".urope, an! it has ben invattebly tided upon
in the nave of France. I shall next advert to the
alleged intfficiency of the present • ystem. and sisal
take a more compendious meth 4 of refuting that
charge, by &so isyieg the foundation, than in follow-
ing the Noble Lard into the variety of detail. The
Nettle Lord has reverted to the opiitions of myself
And a lamented Friend now no mote (of whom
I can never either speak or think witnont my
heart swelling with kindness at the teciii.lealon of toe
insuudion which I maimed. and Use genuine fyiew.

tire sly cost half a million (exclusive of the addi-
is tat pecitiliary grants to the navy), still he hoped
it the Clause and that (;overnni.mt would con-
Jn that the country was now placed in a situatifan
?bleb rendered it highly requisite that economy in
As pecuniary circumstances ought to be consulted.
However hale disposed he was to draw a gloamy
view of the situation of the country ; yet, from
dewing the increased power and extended con-
tests of the enemy, he must say, that present cir-
iurnstances were sufficient to rouse Government and
the House, to consider of some supplementary mea-
ate, rather Than to stiffer the army to languish un-
, r tha inefis-acy of this theoretical measure. The
Sight Hon. Gentleman, before he came into office,
thought that nut an hour was to be lost; whereas,
after he came into office, tour months were suff•red
to elapse, before he brought forward his theoretical
measure. and four months more rolled on before
the experen he emploed could be put upon its
; andim yett now, withy all the collateral advan-
tages attending it, it had not disclosed those cacum-
Stences which tended to recommend it to toe pre-
sent Parliament and to the country. tie could not
help admit ing the taciturnity of the Right Hun.
laientleman since the commencement of the new Par-
liament ; p. chaps, as he had g used • is pow. ne had
been of opinion, since he stepped in o office, that
The least said, the sooni.,t mended." Lord
Castleresig:i then proceeded to accuse ,Ir. Wind-
ham and the rest of the !Amish:is of delaying
to send timely succours to Puenos Ayres.—
They knew by letters from St. H iena, early in
June, of the attack which was i.,tended on tit/.
place, and yet it was not till October, that a ri in-
fracement was sent out, whilst three teg.ments
night have been detached within ten days after
the first intelligence had been received. This re-
ieforcement might have been sent out tae middle
et Ju'e, and (calculating the time the Nariiiaui
took in coming home, which was between five and
six weeks) might have reached Buenos Ayres about
the middle of August. In a word, he thought that
Ministers ought either to have recalled toe troops
entirely horn that Settlement, if they consaleled
to be untenable, or to have sent out an i ..mediate
reinforcement ; but the real iiirt was, that no troops
had been sent out, till Hie Ma) y's, Ministers
knew of the failute of Lord Istudersiale's neg
ciatim at Paris. In short, Ministers appeared ,c
him tie be as culpable in neglecting the economy of
time, as to military measures, as they wee guilty
of a want of economy. in p of ex peeic--, a., :i
regd.(' to the Right lionourahas Gentlemeu's mi-
litary system of expeii nent.
Mr. WINUHAM spoke to the following effeet—
" Reluctant, Sir, as 1 feel to obtruae n.yee if up. n
the attention of the House, I feel myself imperiously
calle I upon to rise, and to tepei some of tat per
tuna: observations of toe Noble Lord. Not lot
'list I have been willing to in-u: thee •arg- 01 taci-
turnity, when upon a variety of su yeEt_ during the
pre .eat Session. I have been willing to give sway Li•
caner gentlemen, whom I considered inure proper t •
take a share in such discussions; alai, pe•-aps,
I may even run the rise of having thi. c age cost-
tined against me, by endeavourioa to oe AS short
as possible on the present occasion; as I feel on
willing to trespass on the time of the House, owe
the Noble Loid has imposed upon the . tots
a short speech of only three fell haws in continuance ;
and still more especially. as the Noule L iid
that another day he intends to speak wagth.
when he enters into farther detail. 0.• Innately
urea
Wires. I shell begin, ttarefore, with with.' in
the first place, the last part of the Noble Liar
speech, as being f sivest its retnembran.e, I me.s.
a charge against Gavernineet, faro .t s lading ar-
tier reinforcements so Buenos Ayres. and in .tits. 1
think, the Midst will see a tan spicaaeu of the
whole strain if the N -ole Lard'. reasuniug. cat
culated to lea I the House to the wildest in-
ferences. Thu Noble Lord states, that Ministers re-
ceived inn lligettce earl) .n t e month of June; but
Ministers did not even t ceive any notice or idea
of the intended attack, until the 24th of that
month, and for which they were tarn unpre-
pared. The Noble Lord then talks of fitting out ,
expeditions in` ten days; but when an expedition is
to he prepared to go to such a de tent hemisphere,
it is suiely necessaiy to pay attenti n to the quality
both of the vessels and troops ; it was necessary
that they should go prepared to exited the ex-
pedition repulsed, if they set sail prior to any
intelligence having been received of tile capture of
the place; and if so, that they should *e
a condition to re-cross the Atlantic. N-isv.
it
fleet had been fitted out with the greatest pus
sihle expedition, it could no', at any rate, have Ar-
rived at Buenos Ayres before the l2th of August
(the day when it is reported to have neon reecep-
turesi). With regard to the Awnings, this is not
exaeLy a case in point. The NOTISINS is a single
ship-s.a fast sailer—coming home witii intelligense
of good news, not likely to he d vetted out it us
course, and yet this vessel did not arrive under a
passage of eight weeks. Now the incorrect state-
ments of the Noble Lord upon this p may bi
Considered as a specimen of his laborious, and yet in-
curred statemeotkupon other points. Indeed, Sit,
nothing can be morefallacious than toe Noble la d't
calculations, and which cocas... at the same time,
gross inconsistence; between his former calculation
those of to-night. the basis on whicu the
Nat& Lord founds his arguments rei-peaing the
Txpence of the militai y pensions, is, that a soldier's
site is to be calculated like the lite of any other man;
and this, alter the fatigues of twenty-one years'
service ; and the Noble Lord argues, that the life
of a soldier, at that age, is like that of another
man. Give the Noble Lord his datens, and 'hen he
triumphs ; but take away that, as I Anl bauou
to do, mid then all his couclusiiins fall to
the ground, alth-•u4h I doubt whetner even his
own data onuad beat him out in the interene s
be draws from them. l't.e Noble Lord calculates
abstrattediy upon the expellee ; hut l consider that
ea pence ought always to be proportioned to the ob-
Jed ; and, I consider also, that it is an important
utaarart to encourage the soldier, by contriboung to
ease and comfort. "the volunteer ',pence', the
Noble Lord cannot forget, have been reduced above
300 A-Oat. stetling, and this chiefly by equeiising the
'silences en these cot ps, instead of buffering some
tavonitte or particul it corps to put the comas y to a
uch larger expellee than others. But the Noble
Laid has not tested here, his aecusatioas pro-

a

...

i .
. •
..hip which stietshipestied his teenrotlnications) Meth* r ft nitiltetook to raise front 40 000 to 60,000 men
onpriety if increasing the ovlitory esita-oistonent no .y. lo the co .15- , t t:n.rt,tn in. - too, t e
.f this empire. It is tour', !het no a inn coosi let. nu 'nits taised a• i toyed to 9 (AV effe Jive men.
tion of the present state of the world, an rtnore • diorite it is. that 'I- N Isle Lord should wet he too
mmediotely of Europe, if, mum a legitim ornersti. liaosoil biseondeoriotions. But he has toia us, that
:fusion of what the fussing eveios on M. Continent - othe. It Dirt was radar,' and inc. ',sing. ; his ii,
appeared to hissico, and on ens br ad priiilple of • indeed. tonteibing like ago d areaniew ; here he
anticipation, we comely:ft/it the tit • poli yof Gtrat , Nish!: 1,114 ors onoohte lied ; hth lie shoaW have
Brita nto acqo se a great military retaelishmmt, recollecie ft that we never . timplaitied of the Paton
and t,) Apt Reel, military means; it was, at the i BA 'as. nut calrulo orl to motion, mots , No, wt'
sometime, rem ate from crir intentimis, to . led such cemplaired of it as a violation of justice and i.redtt •
objeds by aiiy sudden ex rtion of fore-, iir any I as subj eting the p inches of England to en". moos
unc mgeniol and unnecessary system of compute fines, to the amount of 500.0001. an tas rendieg to
sion. frac strictures on the preceding Admi• pervert and corrupt the moan of the people--m at
nistrations, which have been so often attributed I particularly of that era s elOch was generally -e-
-to rue, were certainly the resorts of my cotot c- tented to perform p 'rot:hi:Al daises. Our tiojeenons
tom ; and it surely was my duty tan onimodoert on were to the impr,per moans for carrying it into
what I telt to he wrong. I !lid, certainly, condemn effect. and the ronbery it praelis•-d on tie ordiitor y
the Army of Reserve measure, aitd afterwards the and proper mode of recruiting. It carrihl within
Parish Bill—the first I conceived to be whit all itself the seeds of des:roar:or ; and though it foiied,
measures, calculated for an irnmediote pressure most by not producing the men, however poradoxical it
be, oppressive ; net less so were the violent hands i may appear, it would have faired Ii .d it even suc-
lard o,4in the Militia. Such measures may be i ight i seeded. An annual supply .1 90011 men was pri.
II
in tle breaking out of a new war, but 't now. mist Iby this measure ; from these it is to be ore.
With respell to the Army of Reserve, it certainly sensed the greater proportion would not volunteer
was a measure of compulsion ; but it had the mint for general service. Thus you would have on
of being .-frolual. InJeed, compare the whole con- army totally ..t reserve, perhaps with a certain
duet of the Administration with whom tli s measure nortion of V lunteers to supply the casuoiries.
originated, with Or conctild of the Admi Ostration When, tlicretore, tliis plan faik.f. the gr mud has
that succeeded it, and the Committee will find, that certainly open, and the bope was, that the inca-
the intire dependence and best resources of the tat- sure which I then ha-I toe oonour to ittrocroce.
ter. rested on the plans of their predecessors al- would ultimately suceee,f,, a hope which by rood-
though the object of this Litter Administrotioa was ticoce I feel my elf jusuned in indolgicg the
to cooed the errors of the military pions, and to- 'WM& Loot sometime. j notes by results. and s .sne.
sally to change the imbecile system of that Minis- times fiats on details, too ft • tam tiequrn ly plays
try to which they succeeded. DeJuet tom the fast and loose. .his measure si ouid c!rtainly
military measures of that las. Admini.'ra ion, tne be judged by details, because from its ma-
en 000 men raised by the Army of Reserve, the tute it was intended to be graded, arid tor
13,000 drafted from the Militia, and the Amount of that reason was 1 induced to give at a markel
the force obtained, by raising men for rank. every preterence. atdit i. this experisnce at an ilicieo i g
species of which, although I cannot Approve of aoy, projeft, toot vitiorees to• 'he corredness of toe
was still the result of the rota urea of the former principle. For, -tom tf-e returns of the bispedor-
Government ; t iking, 1 say, such a ,leittdion firm General' office. moons ',inert sbly corm& and
, their effe&ive military amount, in the year 1805. which in a great Jegre- embrore the recruiting
' and there is no cause of apprehersico. upon oronch, I find not only, that as the Om • goes on
that suhjed, fro any future Administration.— :he ploporiii • increases; hut. Chit in in- mast week,
At present, I deem it unnecessary to trouble compared soon the eorrespon in.g A eels of toe east
the House with any further deto.i, other op. year, th- proport on is tat of two to one in forester .
portunities will went- foe that purphise ; and on of the present system. So that it n t forty exceeds
di se occasions, will lie met or me, •ith the moo ''re nuinem raised by the parish bill, but also
perfect rea iiness and pr imptitude. I i all views o. •he number cosi Pony raised by she means
recruiting, there are two closs•s of measures to to: rt re di nary rev us. init. I have been unable: to
pursued; the first is, when a great supply is to be compare this increase with the returns from
(Mow ed in a short time ; t nit is, where the vrhoi era :quarters. or rigim-frol reeruiting, and the
opetatinn of the system is do-&d to procure a tens- t: aeon for that iaauility is, 1 presume, that,
porary advantage, at the certain exoence of a per- at the corre ponding period last year, ma, e was no
manent evil. It may b. compared to a sort of recruiting ..t head-quarters, in cony-To-act of the
Mom, whirr), whilst it gives a momentary tone to piefetecce riven to the Parish Bill. from the large
toe nerves, and a partial elevation to the soitits, :it b iii.t.es given under it. 'there were many other
the same time relaxes the strength and debilitates obsei yahoos of use Noble Lord, certainly wry, triy of
the system. The other class of measures is, where reply or explanation; but, at present. they do not
the One& is to provide a constant, progressive, and occur to stir, and there will he other opportunities for
copious fund of supply for your army—where the discussing them. I have now only to remark on mat
best means are adopted for continuing and nourish- otovision, which, to him, appeared so very faulty;
ing the incentives to enlisting, and insuring their namely, that the private soldier s not sufficiently de.
gradual and permanent inflnence. But the Noble pendant on his t ommaioling Offizer, relative to the
Lord has contounded these r opediyeeifferences be- obtaining of his discharge at the proper time, or the
tween the two classes, by ascribing the merits of remuneration provided by the law for a stated period
the one, as imperfeetions of the other. Thus, of service. Indeed, I can rot see any impropriety in
when he tells me, that the system I had the honour prey-sting a gallant votteronewho.had passed a life
to introduce, has not considerably augmented the of fourteen years in the service of his county, who
'somber of our military effective force, I answer, had endured many hardships, arid saved in all sli.
that it was never intended so produce any such nu- mates, from being made the vietim of a capricious.
mediate effed. Its pined was to put your military oestinate, and splenetic individual ; for such Oa.
service on a great and general footing—to intro- rafters will Ise equally found in the army. as in the
duce into its organization, those leading principles ot er classes of society. NO, can I suescrtbe to the
and strong inducements, which, when properly un- probability ot feeble and improper persons, patch-
derstood by the country, would have a strong in- Mg themselves up, and imposing on the service, toe
Auence on that part of your population, which lie pension int,nl-ct tor vie worn-out aii dis-
bad a willingness and leaning towards the pro- Wed. The surgeon would sullied himself to pu.
secution of a military life. It the population nishment tor permitting such a fraud upon the
did not yield a number sufficient to the demand, country ; and when the attention and diligence of
it was an evil by no means attributable to the the Inspedino Officers are considered. the hypo-
system introduced. But this mode of recruit- thesis is impossible, under all the circornstonces of
ing, by impressing.' p.m of your population, with the case. I can conclu le, wi h this c I..vidion :a
Mt. advantages of a military life, which gives them my mind. the the more frequently the gentleme las
a fair cousultation of their own feelings, is still fur- the opposite side caU for proof-, the oftener they will
ther applicable to any other plan you may propose na disappointed "
1
to adopt ; for inoance, should you resort to the Mr. PERCEVAL ohserved, there were many
principle of the Army of Reserve, or even to a olnovotions ot his No le Friend. to wiich tie
principle of compunion, a great deal has been done. • Right Hon Gentlmnan opposite trawl any ad-
You get men on better terms, without cruelty or I vetted, whilst there were others which he totally
any extreme degree of force. Now, with resoect overly ked. With rem old to the remark his N .410
to the failure upon which the Noble Lord and his i Friend ma le, relative t • the intend •n•e to th- lb-
Friends so loudly vaunt ; it is to b- recoueded, that 1 sisters in not sending opt rein orce neins to lie line
the best and only c: iterion of failure. is a compari- • Ayie- in a proper time, utter they were octmein ea
son ,of what is lilt undone, with that whicn was won the intention of the att. k, ih.t Kik,' 1-1.4.
intended or promeed. I never did say, t :at .he i Gentieman had given no answer, or at least no
system would biing a great aaJ immediate inflox into i proper explanation. l'he calculations made by
the Army. On the contrary, I contended, that its his Noble Friend were •isi. thinotoed by that
progess would be gradiial, that hom little in the c on- Right Honourable Gentleman. sinless in the gene-
mencement, it would ultimately rise to a great v.lue. rah avowal that all colculatinns were fallaciims,
I now ask the question. does it not give evidence of and, in order to avoid fallacy. he steered clear
this promise ? And du not the circumstanc s fully 1 of calogotioin But the Right Hon. G.•ntl. man had
justify the int •re ce I had -drawn, and the pred c- i conclud d, teat, by ms present system, in point of
tion I had hazarded ? Let it be recollected, that I economy, a r-dueti w his talon place in the II Antos
though in great questions, which involve our agri- to the AMOUtIt of five guineas on ca. h man. Now.
cultural, commercial, and manitfoduring concerns. to ascertain this het he should have n,ade his com-
the people interested are speedily acquainted with ; portion. oot with the general establishment, but with
the merits ot the case. yet, in a great measure of , the sidles -lit aid &stunt degrees ot reciiihing. Had
this kind, in its operation intended for the lower , he done so, tote couclusion woold appear to be, that,
classes ot society, as its oromulgotion it slow, so is i by lir. Putt's Bill, for twenty-one guineas bounty.
it tardy in the progress ot its diens. The I twenty years of service were obtained; whilst. lan.
Committee should also beor in mind, that I der the system ot the Right Honourable Gen-
-1
it it not yet complete in all its parte; Out tirman. the errantry paid, tar seven years sere
there are various subordinate circumstances not tykes. the sum of seveteen pounds sevenieen shil-
tairly tried; not even was the increase to the pay of , lingo But it is now said, that it never was ob-
Chelsea Pensioners known, until the present order ; honed to toe Bill of Mr. Pitt. that it woul-i not pro-
was published, because the measure had passed , duce men, but that the objections eatendeJ to the
during the intermediate time between one payment las ins of raising them. Now, it must be in the re.
and another. Thu such a knowledge through the e nl_etioci of many Members in the House. and it
country will operate as a powerful aid aad sumo. did even then ding in his ears, toot the lontrunge
Imo is what every man must allow, who relleas on and txclannation of the Right Hon. Gent. and nu
the effeet which the communication from these friends, ww, that the parish, as they termed it, was
men must produce in the various 'villages and intended to prosioce money, not men. Ine ltioht
counties where they reside. The language will Hon. Gentleman has suddenly become the panegy-
naturally beei-We did not understand your Ads rist of the Army of Reserve nieasuie. W••erce
of Parliament 1 We were unacquainted with your his conversion nos arises). it is impossible to say,
proclamations and military regulstiono but we unless as an nair of friendship to his new comet.
ore now no longer in suspcase ; we see your tion—the Noble Lord who pissiJed over the Ade
munificence to out acquaintance; we see the an ministtation in which th t rweasuie originated.
done in downright earnest. But it oi really -shim- But It is now Asserted. that the pie- use system was
wool to hear the Noble Lord talk of failure.— never intended as UM means of rapidly and *name-
seinat, I ash, was the progress of the Additionai diately governing the military too.'; why tion
it orce B 11, the fivounte measate on the Ad- was it ushered into this Howe, with a speech Ye-
ministration to which he belonged t Why. Sirs plate wits the strong ticcenity of a large regular
uttor Use leEsS Of two MOAttos, it Fond:iced sia min I arms. A •el s•lrihatmo nwr• ~,`"•• "•••••• --

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