The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1808-05-28 00:00:00

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withont the smallest mischief arising. Nay,
the history. of this country itself, for a century
back, demonstrates that no evils have arisen
}from Catholics existing amongst us. Even in
Ireland, where the restrictions were most grievous,
and the system adopted against them was most
calculated to aggravate those grievances, yet
Parlianseut was led to a solemn declaration, as
will appear from the records in 1678, that it was
right to relax the penal code, becuuse of their
long-continued good conduct. I know that since
that period evils have arisen there--evils and ani-
mosities, which I wish to be buried in oblivion, .as
it would be for the interest and honour of all par-
ties. The question now is, whether by u mild and
conciliating conduct,* you can so firmly attach the
Catholics of Ireland to a connection with this
country, and to the Government, as to unite in op-
posing one front to resist the attacks of our invete-
rate enemy ? That such ought to be your desire,
.1 think I may infer, from what has already been
-shewn to have been year real opinion. It is a
system that we have been acting upon already, is
a fact that cannot be fOrgotten by the Catholics
themselves. During a period of thirty years,
they have experienced the 'benefit of your
Mild government and your conciliation. That
you then adopted a happy policy for your-
selves, as well as them, is a fact that cannot be
denied. That policy was directly the reverse of
what was formerly adopted. Instead of depres-
sing them, you ought to raise them to wealth and
to power, and to give them the enjoyment of civil
rights as far as you could; because you believe that,
by so doing, you are most effectually coatributiug
to create in their minds the same attachment to the
Constitutior of their country, which has conciliated
the minds of other subjects. 1 do not defend those
concessions, because they were gradual. The sys-
tem, in all its parts, I certainly defend ; but I mu
convinced, that when the state of the country is to
be changed, you have seen, by the liberality of such
a system, that country, as if by a magic wand, start
from a complete depr:esion and deprivation, into
wealth and power. With that consequence you
have imparted a power which is not theirs ex-
elusively, but which in an equal degree has proved
en addition and accession to your ON U. You have
the glorious reflection, that now when you are
called upon to contend for the existence of your
empire, you made those concessions thirty years
ago, which, if you bad not made, would have de-
prided you-of a great accession of ttrength for
your defence against a foreign foe. You now de-
rive immense advantages from those benefits you
gave thesis. It is owing to your having opened to
them the advantages of commerce, that your own
commerce is increased ; and the navigation which
you imparted to them, is now so much in ad-
dition to your maritime strength. In the same
manner you hare thought it fit to give to
the inhabitants of Ireland that right to their soil,
• which barbarous laws formerly prevented. This is
the true way of giving secant), to the country, to
give them an interest in the soil, and to enable them
to derive advantris,-es from the country which they
assist in defending, and create an anxiety for the
prosperity mad stability of that Government under
which they live. In proportion es your liberality
extended towards them, in the same proportion
your advantages increased. You conferred on them
a share of the constituent power of the country,
which is one of the most important rights that can
be exercised under the British Constitution, as upon
it all the others are founded; unless you mean to say
that them who were to be the representatives of the
people were to be chosen by these who are the mast
anxious for the subversion of the Government. Now,
by such concessions, you have already said that those
prejudices which formerly existed arc enmpletely
eradicated. The people of Ireland, as t hey are rising
in wealth, become the more capable of enjoying
greater privileges. They hare gradually acquired
that attachment to the. Government of the country,
which such advantages inspire.—Those privileges
we formerly withheld from them, we now grant
them with pleasure, and we have conciliated their
affection and regard to the Government of the
country, by creating in them an interest in its
prosperity.—Upon what policy was all this done ?
—Did you not grant them all those privi-
lege., because you did riot any longer distrust
them, or think that they were adverse to your
Government? What I a.k of vou, therefore, is, to
pursue your own system, and free the Irish Catho-
lics from those few eaclitions that remain.—Art
consistently with your own principle!, and upon
that presumption upon which your former lima-
sures were founded.—.lf that presumption be wrong,
and the Catholics are really hostile to the British
Government, then have you been doing too
oa the contrary, it be true, then
rely with confidence upon the effects of your
measures. You have already derived beneficial
consequences, and you have still reason to hope
for more, as far as ;belie principles can bear you
out. That little remains to be granted is true—
that that little may, with perfect safety, be granted, '
is also a truth; the more re, as it is so small an com-
parison to whet you have already granted them.—
The beneficial operation of those honours you
grant is not canfin to the individuals alone to
whom they are granted. They extend their be-
neficial influence to all around them, in the
same proportion as their privation of them ren-
ders objects of disrespect. It is not the
remuneration granted to an Ensign or a Mid-
shipman that repays the hardships and dangers
they endure; but it is the pleasing prospect
of their being thereby enabled to rise to higher
and more beneficial situations. It is not only in
the military and naval, but in all the ether res-
peetable situations in life, except that of a
merchant, that a young man is, by the prin-
ciples of exclusion, and the footing upon which
these are founded, placed in the disagreeable situ-
ation of being deemed unworthy to be entrusted
with them. This caste upon them • stigma diffi-
cult to be borne, and it is not the oppression they
feel in their own minds alone that they have to
complain of, but they feel it more particularly and
more severely in their intercourse with society.—
Every person who meets theni, knows them to be
persons of Out description which the Legislature
thinks proper to oppress with such stigmas.—
But although they feel those stigmas. they have
not the effect of weakening their attaeliment for
the Constitution and Government of their country.

If they did net ?eel this daeply, they could not hare
the natural feelings of men. You are daily calling
upon them for great sacrifices, adequate undoubt-
edly to the great objects in view—the support and
maintenance of tie country from oppression by the
coati neut. You call upon them to adopt those means
which promote your own prosperity. Can they bare
those feelings by which sueli sacrifices can be sup-
ported, unless they cherish
_in their hearts an at-'
tachnieut to the constitution, and enjoy that proud
sensation that ought to be common to every subject
of the Uritisli empire, that every man is equal in
the eye of the law I trust, my Lords, I have
not argued with any forced or exaggerated repro-
remotions, as if I conceived that the situation of
such persons was such as to make them 'undutiful.
It is now to the United. -iiatuent that they, apple.'
for support and redress of their grievances. If it, be
your pleasure to confer tins boon.• you will, in my
judgment, do that thing which of all otherii is the
best calculated to unite the hearts of all against the
common enemy. If the whole extent of their de-
mands be too much, let us, in a Committee, see
what we Call with safety grant them. Let us main-
fest a wish to do all that can be done, to attach to
the state and saleation of the country all that portion
of society which otherwise (mina be so strongly
attached to the cause of our national defence.
have already said, that if the discussion of this que:-
titan be maintained with that tone and temper
which have formerly Let II (*Vltava, much good may,
in my opinion, be created, even although nothing
should be granted. I eagerly exhort you to
confirm to that mass of the population, the expee-
tations• they may hare formed, that whatever
may he the opinion, or the decision of this !louse,
the time is rapidly advancing. when those maces-
pions will not 'he distant from them. (Hear! hear!
hoar!) Much as I wish they may attain their ob-
ject, by this application to your Lordships, yet
still more would I wish, that they would refrain
from attempting it by one odor means. They
would thereby undoubtedly bring upon their
country vast calamities. i would represent to
those in Ireland, any ways disaffected, the
situation of all the other nations upon the
Continent of Europe, to whom France has uni-
formly promised the removal- of their grievances,
but who, instead of obtaining that redress, have
been crushed into one common masa of oppression,
and deluded by their conquerors in their hopes
an.l expectations. Those nations hare brought
upou th?niselves a more galling yoke there were"
tlio:e grievances they formerly complained of;
and yet it is in truth not to be doubted, that
their situation is light in comparison to what would
be that of Ireland, were France to take it under her
protection, and completely get the better of them."
The Noble Lord then concluded a speech of nearly
three hours length, by moving, c. That the House
do go into a Committee, to consider the petition of
the Irish Catholics."

Lord St DMOCTII-.." From the views I (MI in-
cliued to entertain of the rinbte Baron's speech, I
am compelled to say, that Ls talents have unfor-
tunately been misemployed this evening. Nor
Maki that Noble Baron have initiated move Nunb-
eim:l4ly on any one topic, than on that which has oc-
cupied the greater part of his speech ; namely,
the time and circimistumes under which the pre-
sent petition is introduced into Parliarneilt. Upon
this head, he and I. are decidedly nit issue; for I
am clearly of opinion, that is point of prudence
and sound jud,„.mieut, this petition should not Alive
been submitted- to Parliament at present. I sin
sorry also to add, that the loyalty, patriotism, and
public spirit of the Catholic body hrive, by the
pressing of this measure, been placed rashly iu a
situation of some suspicion and incertitnde. What-
ever might have been the conduct of that body
hitherto, this one eet of theirs has placed them in a
very questionable shape, and this I feel it my duty
to state rouudly and explicitly. Though it may
lead us to lona •just opinion of the real views of
the Catholics, yet I lainent that they have impru-
dently overlooked their interest, and laid them-
telvea open to seridiuy. At this dangerous mid
critical period of time, when difiicultier oppose
themselves at every step we proceed, such a eond net
needs no comment ; its well might the sailor refuse
to heave the anchor, anoint the perils of tine storni,or
the soldier refuse to march to battle, without au
increase of mend allowances, as the Catholics hold
out their claims, as in terrurem to the rest of bieir fel-
low-subjects, •o obtain from them, iii the hour of
affliction, that boon, which they despaired of entity-
iag on the just merits of their cause. The7objerts of
the petitioners' request are great and manifold.
They are no less than an eligibility to all ofileto,
military, legal, and those of state. Yet, though
the petition comprehends so many important ob-
jects, still must I say, the hope of the petition, as
it refers to the Irish notiou, is narrow, circum-
scribed, and selfish. It has not touched upon those
points which call swot loudly for reformation and
improvement. And let me say to Parliament, if a
boon is to be given to tine Irish Catholics,
let it be such as may reach also to the Pro-
testant, and all the lower classes of the Irish
community. Let its- basis be education ; in-
form the mass of the Irish people,. and the bless-
ing will be felt in the cottage and the cabin, where
hitherto neither comfort nor happiness has deigned
for a moment to fix its abode. Though the be-
nefits required by this petition are said to he ex-
tended to a population of three millions nominally,
vet it altogether passes by those whose first object
it ought to be to redress. To grant the prayer of
this petition is only calculated to disappoint the
mass of that body, and gratify a few individuals.
The lower order of the population of Ireland are
only to be affected by this measure, us they are in-
timately connected with the higher orders by some-
what of a feudatory bend, as existed until lute
years in Scotland. The extent of this influence
we have hail not long since an opportunity of dis-
covering in the rebellion in Ireland ; and this
imflu-
ente it is rntlicr our duty to correct than to enlarge.
It is rather our duty to inuintain the arum' bond of
union in society, than to feed the ostentatious
pomp of the few at the expense of the many.—
Look to the history of the temporary triumph of
popery, when, in the reign of James the Second,
arbitrary power, aed Popery, her constant hand-
maid, proceeded in their progress through thecuun-
try, pulling down all constituted authority, rind
tine Established Chord,. —Our aucestons improved
upon the lesson, and it was a part of their oise

policy to exclude persons of that profession front
places of public trust and confidence. These dis-
abilities, it has beeu said, were made against the
House of Stuart—they were made, I answer,
againel the principles of the Stuarts. On this
view of the dangerous tendency of conflicting
loyalties, -the restrictive laws were miacted, and on
these principles alone shall we be able to stand
against the waste and lapse of ars. Great danger,
it is said, is to be apprehended, if we do nut admit
them to the full eujoyinent of British liber-
ty—but this I answer, by observing, that this was
rather to be apprehended from concession thou de-
nial. Lord Clare, in his speech in the Irish House
of Lards, stated, that he had ascertained u body of
Cethrilic elergyinee, three 1:, number, had been
appointee' by the Pope for the regitlation of the
Iteinisli Church iii 'related; untidier. at Rome there
existed a Comisistorial Court of Cardinuls for the
siereinatesalunce and coutroul of the Irish Catho-
lic Church. This information was fouuded on the
test 'irony of one of their own -Bishops, Doctor
Troy. On the piesent question, I admit, they are
entitled to our attention by their loyalty and public
spirit ; but when a question is agitated, whether we
shall give them power, then, indeed, the House is
called ou by the country to deliberate and review.
Let us look to the periodwof history most calcu-
lated to instruct us--to the year 1641 turd Wee;
see what ' haver-dill power in the hands of the
Catholics make, in those days, to which the libe-
ral minds and opinions of.some will not permit
them to revert ; hut I cannot clime my eyes to the
open page of history, from which England may
learn on this subject ills best and most useful lesson.
We are told of theopposite consequences of granting
and refusing. In the first instance. we are pro-
iiiised union amid harmony, in the lust, commotion
and revolution. I deny both, let these assertions
collie from whence they may. Have not they, for
3u yenta, progressively been obtaining additional
privileges, and shall their promised allegiance cease
the moment we cease to giant ? If the latter be
true, what use would they make of power? 'Tis too
evident ; and under the present circumstances it
would be madness to break down those bounds
which the legislatnre has judiciously marked out
in our defence. The experience of Poland, at the
period when that monarchy became elective, may
apprise us of the dangerous situation we are placed
in. I have beard the Pope is merely a spiritual
superior, lust I could never yet conceive spiritual
distinct from temporal power. Here is my grand
objection, and let me tell the House we are here'
playing in the dark, we know not how 'widely we
open the door to danger. Catholics are influenced
by, and obedient to, their Priests, mid- they are di-
rectly connected with a foreign power ; and though
the Catholic himself might be disposed to prey.
serve bis oath of allegiance, yet as fie is sub-
ject to another power, he may not be able to do
that which perchance he might be inclined. Of
this James the lid, was an extraordinary instance,
who, though solemnly sworn to permit the Protest-
ants to remain in undisturbed possession of their
legitimate privileges, was compelled by Priests to
attempt to *obvert the whole establishment.. It is
well known the great concession was originally
made to the Irish Catholics, in order to unite them
for ever to the constituted authorities. Every See-
lion was succeeded by a fresh demand, yet they
still remain dissatisfied ; and that they expect an
establishment of their church,. systematically, will
speedily appear, should the prayer of the present
petition be granted. The penal 'code, which has
since beets repealed, had been found extremely ne-
cessary is the reign of Queen Anne, to preserve the
privileges rind ascendancy of the Protestant 'pro-
portion of the community. This necessity et d.
exists, according to the opinion of the late Egli of
Clare, in his speech, the argument and reiwoninit of
which, it will be found very difficult. to refine.
The race and security of the Statertiust be pr.v-
wryer. by established laws; since we must despair
of supporting them by the uative benevolence of
mankind. DO I understand the question rightly,
when I conclude, that it is now intended to give
full and complete capacity to Catholics to till all
public stations in every department? And may it
not Ise even extended so far, as to choose from the
Catholic body that man who is to dispense even
the situations and places in the established church ?
Give to them so much as is consistent with our
own safety, and they will be dissatisfied ; give theta
all they require, and our ruin is inevitable. The
grand object of legislatite care should be the hotly
of the Irish population, who are in the haiiit of
looking ex!:tisively to their priests, from u hoot
they -derive scarcely uny information, and whole
interest it is to detach them from their allegi-
ance to the country and King.—This is at once
the cause of their ignorance and &affection.
Priests are dependent no the people for
support, and the
_people on Priests for instruc-
tion. Hence it is the duty of a liriti.h
to free the poor from the evils under which they
now labour by this reciprocal dependence. This
may he most effectually done by re-establishine
through Ireland those glebe-houses now asieulder-
leg in the dust. This was sneceaefully tried tinder
the Government of Lord Hertford ; and since, iu
my own time, and while I issesclf took a part in
the administration of public i;flairs, a sum of I i rty
thousand pounds was granted for that dr. irahle
purpose. The necessity of this measure will ap-
pear from the statement of the Noble Lord respect-
ing the number of parishes and glebe-howler so
extremely disproportionate. The Protestant
Church must he maintained in all its dignity
and privileges, if we expect to make proselytes.—
Without persecution we should make no Protest-
nuts in Ireland—without persecution the esta-
blished church would he overwhelmed.—/Hear
hear! from the Opposition Benehea)—l repent, it
is our policy to make the established church re-
spectable. even at the expense of the Catholic, amid
to increase its privileges and power is the just and
worthy occupation of art enlightened arid liberal
British Protestant Pe:lame:it. Such is tuv pro-
position respecting the whole of the Irish popirla-
non--respecting the Catholics, in particidar, I leave
some propositions *leo to make to the House,
should &convenient opportnnity arrive. The ti..-
wailer on ordinations proposed to be bestowed by
the Catholic church in hated on His Majesty,
seems to me perfectly migutory, us I bare le-
tent ively considered and rellected
iutorna-
tinn ou thii head, and sin well iufertned, that

it intended only to give the King the Niglio'
leges of selecting from three perions nominated Isr
the Bishop, one to fill the vat ant Bishopric, and
should two be rejected, the third shall directly be
recommended to the Pope for ordination. It is
absurd to suppose such a concession can obviate
our objections, or cooe.liate all porde,: It should
not escape thHouse, that all the Canons once
issued remain iu force until alt:Ted or repealed
by a general Council. Most of the violent and in-
flammatory Canons. still reinsin in full force and
effect. This, if there were no other, i 3 a terrifying
consideration. My objectious, nay Lords, are all
founded ou those principles, itnerweven with the
interests and liberties of the people; they are
finiuded on the principles of the reformation, the
revolution, the elevation of the House of Hanover
to the Throne; and die Establishment of the
Church in its present state, of which I, my Lomb,
feel,.and daily analyze the blessings. from these
considerations, I could not have :odd less than I
have done, mull trust the judgment of this House
will this night uhew it was altogether unnecessary L
should Innis said more.

' The Earl of Motaa—" I candot, my Lerds,concur
in the sentiments expressed by the NoLleViscouut,
particularly in that part of his remarks where he
has au unfairly censured and harshly treated the pe-
titioners, as deficient in loyalty or allegiance to
the Conatitutioa and Govertinteat of the realm.
The petition. came under the sanction of names of
the greatest reopectability. When my Noble
Friend, not twig since, proposed this mutter for
diatars.sion, and appointed a rimy, I then appre.
headed his motion would be of a much more exten-
sive nature than I since find it to be, and would
have proceeded a step further : in this 1 have felt
some disappointment and more regret I have
heard it objected, there is now nothing remaining
to authorise this appeal to the legislature. Ott the
contrary, I wish to state they are very little better
for the partial repeal already made in their fa-
vour. It would be unworthy of them srmen,who have
tasted of the sweets of a partial liberty, should they
untcontiuue to preas their suit, and it will he equally
unworthy of au enlightetied British Parliauteet,
should that application prove unsuccessful. They
should seder desist until they have obtained every
thing ; and it must be the wish of all liberal and
' eulighteued men,. that they should succeed to the
uttennust. extent of their wishes. They would be
unworthy of being incorporated amongst Unicorn,
who should consent to relinquish the birth-right
of Britous. Suppose even that a Catholic should
become a Chancellor, the guard of the King's
coaseitace, there was nothing to be apprehended
from his iuilueuce' as he was not even one of the
first Officers in the Council, admitting his religiou
rendered him altogether unfit. for the situanno.
The case of the Catholic at present Le consi-
dered altogether distressing and afflicting; his
grievances consisted in personal stifferitig and
private indignity ; lagialitiee insults and continued
oppreabiew-ecteprivaition of property 'sad humilia-
thin in the opinion of tits fe ;anbjecta. The
Protestant is mined by the legirlittere against his
feilow-Cbriatials—sit poinivelheallsesens satires/ of
suspicion; it of suspitioo. fear; if of bar, hate.--
The first principle of the eunetitution is to imeart
equal liberty to all within its influence. •As a
friend to the Church I will advise its supporters to
beware of e conduct derogatolv ao its -character,
and injurious to iteperniseent interest's." The No-
ble Earl coact mild an eloquent.rpeech with sup-
porting the motion of hie Nroblerriefid. • •
- The Bialiop of Noaltirq ably stip/tented -the
muse of the Catholics. .Their tenets, Lie coutentla
ed, did not disqualify them• from holding official'situations,. for we shriek)• tile their tenets tram
. their own profession, as they snrelr know best their
own principles and doctrines. Sitnatiirnein the difa
&departments
rent of rew, army, nary, and the
rervicos, were not; or at least should not
be mattes of farimr, ?ether than of deiert. Hence
all should Le admitted as candidates who would
solemnly absolve thtteselvei on oath Gam eutet-
taining nny tenets or principles prrjudicial.te the
interests of the estattlid Government. Such was
the conduct of less libetal and enlightened nations.
and why should not that beadopted m Greet Britain
The time, he thought, had arrived. prophetically
spoken of by that great li.wyer, Sir . Paxton, for
removing all shadosrof the Penal Laws. There now
existed no temporal power to which the Catholics
were aulsiect, and no Pretender to the Throne.—
We owed this tneasure of redress to them for their
cmdttet in assisting to effect the union of the two
couatries. The oath of Ilia Majesty. he would not
stela-nu., placed any bar. against the admission of
th 4'41101k% into the Constitution ; at least, if it
did, it hud been otteu. ou less pressing occasions,
broken and neglected. The principles of the
Reforruation, and those of the Revolution, both rea
sulttne front the growth of information, and the
extension of human knowledge, were inimical to
every system of exclusion, and hence he should feel
little credit Hato the Garb he had the honour to wear,
should lie be arrayed ageism the cause of liberty,
philanthropy, and justice.
The Archbishop of YORK said. that he was per-
snarled their Lordships would crews him for say-
ing a few words upon the subject then before the
House, which the Noble Lartnt (Grenville) had,
with so much ability. brought under their cone..
dcration. No man could be more sensible than
he ear of the public character of the Revereed
Prelate who spoke last in the debate. So fur he
must express himself friendly, to the cause of the
Catholics. that if their petition had desired the
it-rentest dtazree of toleration and protection, then
Le would have been found amongst the ferrintat
to support the prayer of the petition. -God forbid
that lie should he uta enemy to the freedom of
public worship, but still he felt rot inclined to
eountenattee the introduction of,those principles
into the Coustitutinte which might create destruc-
tion. The Petitioners did nut allege that there
was ally objection in their mind in respect to the
liberty of puhhe worship. No ex.
isted ugainst the perlbrinanre of their tarenir.
mutts ditties. It had ',CCU inquire-I, how could
the State be in danger, or rem the Chtirch,
by the free admission of the Catholics to places
of profit anti Irt,At riiik in the Covernifient of
this ontittry Thar reitsen ioi his opinion
Wits. the !)-cti:isr id' the ('hut. h of Rome.
At the vin tine h..t l A: tea thensed to (-arr.: so far
his Jafereuce in reTeet to the Catholics, but to,