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London, England, 1824-03-23 00:00:00

,
N lre, he would call the attestioa of the Committee to the state of it
wthat House of the number a-pregame sod causes trie2aS in a large district where threeffifths of what is called the broad trade
Lamaism during the last seven years& distinguishing the hundreds were carried on in thls district 8 there could be no improvement in
hose which they were sent, the expenses paid by the Sheriffs for the exercise of labour—no machinery could be used. How, he
the Judges' lodgings, and the fees received by the Under-Sheriffie would ask, was the tradesman of this district to compete with the
-from the earliest period from which they can be made out.—Or. foreigner, who was free from all those restrictions to which the per-
dered. sons emeloyeel in the broad trade were subject? He k -ew it was
REPEAL OF BOUNTIES ON IRISH LINENS. *skeet why the Individuals employed in this trade in London did
Mr. A. ELLIS presented a petition from Tipperary against re- not transfer their capital to other quarters, and carry on the trade
pealing the bounties on the exportation of anise linens. The lion. where thew would be tree from these restrictions? To this he would
(lent. observed, that though he dbeapprovell of bounties in getteral.vet answer, that it would be impreible for those carrying on the trade
be thought the House should not legislate ter Ireland as it would "for for perhaps a half a century in London, to transfer their capital ;
England ; it should be recollected that in Ireland there was no they could not remove it elsewhere ; the two operations of having
capital, and therefore the slightest check on any particular trade capital in one place, and carrying on trade in another, could
carried on ies that cotgliky was of the 11104 serious inconvenience. not exist in the same hands ; they would obstruct each other,
He thereforelioped that this measure would be reconsidered by the and in consequence those who had large capitals would withdraw
Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and that he would it from the manufacture and retire ; and one of the evils can-
not persevere in his intentioteof withdrawing the bounties. lie re- plained of by the petitioners in the present Bill was, that there
marked, that during the late trqubles and disturbances in Ireland, was not time enough given for the withdrawal of some capitalists,
those parts of it (the west and south-west) where the bounties were and to have them succeeded by others. In France there were at
allowed were in a quiet and tranquil state, which was attributable to present no restrictions on labour ; all the distinctions between la-
their hands being in full occupation by reason of these bounties. bourers in the metropolis and the country were annihilated. La.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER sale, that if he bout was in that country free and unconstrained. Ile was most
could persuade himself that the maintenance of the bounties was ready to admit, that taking the duty off the raw material was next
calculated to promote the welfare of any of the, manufacturing to teeing the duty off the importation—the most important mea-
classes in Ireland, he would at once desert the principle that he had sure that could be devised to effect a successful competition. But
set out with ; hut so far was he front being convinced of this, that ; to give a chance of this competition, the English tradesman should
he was sure that abstaining from dealing any longer with bounties ibe able to procure the article as cheaply as the foreigner. As far as
was the best method of conferring effectual advantages od that our market went we had great supplies from Bengal ; there
country. He was aware that the announcement of an intention en , were also great quantities still brouget from Italy; he believed
the part of Government had produced some alarm in Ireland;t
but , that half of the best silk imported was brought from Italy. In
he telt that this would soon subside. All that he could promise ; Bengal there were two descriptions of silk ; one, which was worth
was, a return to his original plan, viz. that the repeal of these I about Ila. per pound, was brought to this country ; there was ar-
bounties should be slow and gradual, and that they should be re- I other, of a cheaper description, worth about fie. or es. fel. per pound.
Ouced by annual portions of one-tenth, to commence on the sth of I This low description of silk reser found its way to his country,
January, 11125. If he thought that any other course would be pro- !or if edit], it was in such smell quantities es not to be available to
slue ire of benefit to Ireland, he would be both ready and happy to I the manutacturere. It was of great importance to the trade that
adopt It. ' cheap silk should be imported to the country ; but it could not be
Sir J. NEWPORT and Mr. HUTCHINSON urged, that • longer , done from Bengal until now, as it was but lately that country had
period ought to be allowed before this gradual reduction should I began to recover itself front the monopoly of the East India Com-
commence. pany, and it was only within a short time that silk could be
Sir R. FERGUSON hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer I brought into this country by private merchants. Orgasine was
would persevere, as he was convinced the system of bounties was brought into the country, and the vast importation of it he consi-
a bad one, and he fully approved of their removal. ! dered a great benefit. This was chiefly procured from Italy,
with
and
Mr. CALCRAFT remarked, that the Chancellor of the Ex- I it Was notorious that we could not enter into any comparison
chequer waas in a dilenema. lie was by one party to con-' the Italians in the effects of the silk mills, though our mills were
tinue the bounties, by another to repeat chem. The advice of both I much superior to theirs. Between the two countries, England and
seemed to him to be given on interested motives. It should be re- 1 Italy, there was such a difference in the price of labour, that the
collected, that although there were no beauties at present existing tradesman sheuld charge here eight shillings for what could be pro-
m Scotland, yet all their trades had been ffistmetiond encoueel ' cured in Italy for four shillings the pound ; thus the high charge
by them, and that they were not relinquished until those trades of labour prevented this country from entering into fair compete
were in full vigour. This was unlike depriving an infant trade of tion with the foreigner. France had also • decided advantage,
them, and which bounties had alone induced people to aitivaice that if her own supply failed her she could come into the market of '
their money in such concerns • and he contended that the eff, et of this country and buy Bengal silk, take it away free from ditty, and
stopping those bounties would to bring the paeans emeloyed in put it into the loom at four shillings per pound cheaper that. the'
those trades to the last stage of distress - and if, therefore, such a English manufacturer could ; arid how, he would ask, could
consequence was deducible from it, he thought the bounties ought our manufacturer, thus circumstanced, meet competition ?
to be continned. Another argument by which to sltew the utter inability of the silk
Mr. EL Lis and Mr. V. FITZGERALD said a few words, after manufacturers of this country to compete with France was, the in.
which the petition was ordered to lie on the table and to be teriority of our machines. It appeared from the evidence of Mr
printed. Hale, who visited Lyons about the year 1815, that there was a par-
DUTIES ON FOREIGN 'WINE. 'titular machine constructed for the manufacture of figured goods,
Mr. T. WILSON presented • petition from the importers and which gave such a facility and superiority in the manufacture of that
holsters of foreign wines, praying tor a diminution in their duties. article as to surpass exceedingly the mode of its manufacture in this
Some observations were made on it by Mr. Wetter and the country. The invention of the looni and other machinery by Sir
CHANCELLOR of the Elton tomes, when the petition was , it. Arkwright for the cotton-manufactuse, did not introducegreater
ordered to lie on the table. •improvement in that branch of manufacture than did the machine'
Mr. C ILCRAFT presented • petition from the silk-mercers' he was alluding to in the silk-manufacture. Although a patent
residing in the City of eVestininster, complaining of certain hard- , bad been obtained in this country for making this machine, yet
ships to which they were liable. Petitioners thought, and with ; only sixty such machines were as yet made, although they pre-
propriety, that equal indulgences should be measured out to all. ; vatted generally over France. The great advantage of this meettinc
They aitirm, that the Lords of the Treasury had put a construe- , consisted in working off figured goods without the intervention or
tern upon an Act of the house, which could never have been with- aid of any person. When Alt. Bale visited France, there were
in the contemplation of the legislature. It was a peculiar hardship I twenty-six thousand looms at work, and of these fifteen thousand
that silk dealers should have pieces of silk as large as from one I were machines ef this construction. With such advantage, how
hundred to one hundred and fitly yards, and because these pieces , could any competition be entered into between this country and
had a fag end, or what was technically called a drop lee, and when I France. with labour cheaper, greater facility in the production of
this end was cut the tradesman was not entitled to the bounty. material, and improved machinery ? To open the competition so
Many of those engaged in the silk trade, who had • large stock on soon as was proposed would be utter ruin and destruction to the silk
band, would not he entitled to a bounty on one fourth of that stock. trade of this country. France, if her own resources were not sufli-
It never, in his opinion, amid he the intention of the Legislature, tient, could procure thrown silk at four shillings a pound cheaper,
that silk, which was cut for the sake of sending a pattern and sample, than it could be procured in this country. from the cheapness of
should be subject to such • restriction. The answer to this ob. labour. It might be said that the protective duty of thirty per',
juice" he knew, was that it was not intended to give the bounty to cent still extended • security to the trade in England against the
retailers ; but this evidently could not be • correct answer, for exclusive preference of French silk ; but it should be remembered.'
when the individuals engaged in the retail trade thought proper to that there was no difficulty whatever in evading this duty, and
deliver their goods into a warehouse, they became entitled to tbe from the inquiries which Mr. Hale made in Paris and elsewhere
drawback on all the goods which were not cut ; this was clearly ex- upon the subject of the trade, he was offered (from the interest he
pressed by the regulation o" the 11th last March, and had a general took in his inquiries) to have any quantity of silk imported into this
reference to the trade, that it the retailer sent his uncut country at ten per cent. over the cost. This duty, therefore, instead
goods to a warehouse, and took them out within thirty days, 01' a protection to the manufacturer here, was a bounty to the smug.,
these persons would be entitled to the drawback ; but the Lords of glee In Cbins, it was well known that silk goods were tuanufac-,
the Treasury lied thought proper to add • word not at all mention. cured at half the expense for which they be . could manufactured inl
od in the Act. They added the word " new" to the word " uncut," any other part of the world. America now resorted to this
sod by this means the retailer was deprived of the benefit. It was market, and therefore the demand for milk goods in Eng-
a peculiar hardship, that whilst the Member for Coventry. who land and other European markets was diminished. Under
watched over the interests of his constituents with a real and assi- these circumstances, five years. and perhaps mote, would, at
deity that did him credit, should have procured for the inhabeants least, be necessary before this country would be provided with'
of that town a drawback even on ribbons, worth twopence the machinery and other facilities, which might at all enable them to
yard, and upon every piece consisting of as few as eighteen yards, cope with foreign production. The sale and manufacture of'
the entire of which was not worth more than three shillings, and silk prevailed principally in the period intervening between the'
that others would receive no bounty for silk worth from ten to fife close of Winter and the commencement of Spring. The operation
teen pounds, it' the tag end happened to be cut off', to be sent as a of the present Bill, therefore, weed not he felt advantageously to
pattern. Did such a measure as this., he would ask, run on all the interests of the silk manufecturers of England, during the re-
ferrers—was this consistent with equal justice? He fully agreed sent year. As to the next year, from the apprehensions naturally
with the petitioners, that equal indulgence should be given to all entertained, and the-approaching period of the competition, those
parties, to the retailers as well as to the manufacturing interests. now engaged in the trade would be unwilling to exposed capital In
• The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought, upon future in it. Persona might now gladly avail themselves of the
the who'e, it would be as well if the discussion were deferred until drawbacks which were removed. They would gladly put the mo-
the House was in Committee, otherwise there would be two de- ney in their pockets, but would not be found ready to embark fresh
bates irstead of one. It wou'd, in his opinion, be time to discuss capital, or endanger their present property, in a competition to
the matter when the argument was heard. which they had lad so many disadvantages and difficulties to coo-
Mr. 110BHOUSE said, a petition was prepared for him to tend against. lie was therefore instructed to pray that the Coon-
present tai the Howie, in consequence of something that occurred' mittee would extend, at least, the time for bringing this Bill into
on Friday last ; until that day his constituents were not aware of she oPeration, in order that suitable opportunities might be afforded
operation of the law with regard to them. They were alarmed in for preparation tor competition, should the Legislature persist In
consequence of what happened In the House on Friday, and they deeming it expedient to adopt such a measure. In laying the
were most anxious for the discussion of the measure, that the fair- case of the silitenanufactures, and those concerned in it, before
PPM of the measure might be seen and investigated. His coned. the House, he had confined himself to the mention of those
tuents also complain that compensation has been given to others, prominent points, which, to him, appeared most worthy of the
and they ask why it should not also be given to them ? If this consideration of the Committee. He had briefly compressed the
compeneation were not given to others, they would not ferljustified sentiments which thouprincipally concerned entertained on the
in costing before the House, for the purpose of interrupting • ma- question, and was thankful for the patience and indulgence with
sure, the principles of which received their approbation ; but as re. which the Committee had honoured him. (Hear, hear.) The
nit:aeration had been granted to two other great classes of persons, Learned Counsel then withdrew from the Bar, and several clauses
they felt it requisite to demand it for themselves. He had taken of the Bill were read by the Clerk.
the liberty, when he brought forward his motion respecting the The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose on the
window tax, to foretell—and it required no great skill in prophecy— clause relative to the removal of the drawback on silk at present in
the difficulty in which the Right Hon. Gentleman would find him. the warehouse, or entitled to the proposed reduction. The Bill pro-
✓ide In hit introducing this measure to the country ; and he also Poled that this reduction should extend to silk goods of 300 pounds
stated., that those for whose benefit the measure was introduced, weight. With a view of meeting and satisfying the objection taken
would not be conscious of it, as the Right Hon. Gentleman had by the Hon. Member for Wareham (Mr. Calerafte that there
not as yet proceeded to the reduction of any direct axes. Ile should be a limit to the boon extended by the Legislature, would be
thought it a hardship and a grievance to come before Parliament easily conceded, as it was not supposed that it was intended to ex-
with other measures. tend to every silk-mercer who might have quantities of silk for se.
The petition was ordered to lie on the table, and be printed. veral years upon hand. Ile felt the force of the peculiar objectioa
SLAVERY. urged by the lion. Member, and was aware that whilst this in-
Lord CLIFTON presented a petition from the inhabitants of dulgence was proposed to refer to uncut silk, there might he pieces
Gravesend against slavery in the West Indies.--Ordered to lie of it which were cut only for the purpose of exhibiting patterns Of
on the table. the silk, and in perfect fairness he thought such pieces should be
LICENSED VICTUALLERS. considered in the same point of view as uncut silk, and entitled Is
.Mr. LEONARD presented a petition from the licensed vie- the reduction of duty (liar, hear.) An exception, however, should
Mailers of I:1y, praying for a repeal of the duty on licences--Or. be made in respect of thole who had cut pieces, for they had al-
dered to lie uti the table. ready profits on the part of the piece which they might have taktol
COALS. from the warehouse, and therefore they were not entitled to the be-
Lord J. RUSSELL presented a petition against the duty on refit which the Bill was intended to confer. Agreeing as he did in
coals.—Ordered to lie on the table. the propriety and force of the objection taken, he would himself
LABOURING CLASSES. propose an amendment to the clause now before the Committee, and
The same Noble Lord gave notice that he would move on Thurs. suggest, that After the words 300 pounds in the clause there be in-
day for a Committee to inquire into the situation of the labour- sorted, "and all entire pieces or such cut only for the purpose of ex-
leg classes. hibiting patterns thereof."
WOOL. Mr. CAM:RA/el felt the fairness with which the Right Hon.
Sir T. LETHBRIDGF. presented a petition from the mans. Gentleman met the objection he had made, which was only cone-
fiteem,„ of wool in the town of suede, praying for a repeal of apoating to that just and liberal manner with which he treated all
die ditties on the stock in hand. questions relative to trade. (Hear.) The pro ,"iety with which he
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQUER said, that as it I sacrificed the objection which he (Mr. Calcrato had made, chewed
would be more convenient, and would prevent any detail, he' the advantage of discussion on the question, and bow advents-
would state to the House how far, and to what extent, he world I tagcoua was the interchange of sentiments and opinions on such
agree with the prayer of the petition. The idea he had upon the ! matters. The Right Hon. Gentleman had acted well so far, but
subject was fiuggeeted by the persons concerned in the wide. when ; the evil was yet uncured ; and from what he had done, he hoped
it was on a former occasion brought before the House. These per- Ihe might be induced to go a little step further, and extend the
sons gave it as their opinion—and he had adopted that opinion, and ; proposed reduction to pieces of certain dimensions; he did not
would act upon i —that it would be most conducive to the interests , mean that every remnant should be entitled to the proposed mes-
e the manufacturers, if the !eduction took place at two distinct • sure of encouragement to the silk trade; but thought that it might
periods—lt 3d per lb. was taken off on the 10th of September, and with propriety be extended to all pieces consisting of 30 yards.
the remaining 2d. upon the 19th December. This was the best Ale. WALLACE said, with respect to the 30 yards. he had a
plan suggested, and it was his intention to attend to it. He did considerable objection. He conceived that the disposition of the
aotemipuee to make any return of stock on hand. Hun. Member to limit the allowance to that quantity, was on the
The petition was ordered to lie on the table. same principle adopted by the Worthy Alderman opposite (Mr.
JUDGES IN WALES BILL Alderman %teat!) a few nights ago ; provided he succeeded for his
On the motion of Mr. JONES. the House went into • Can- coustituents in the City of Loudon, tie cared not what became at
mime on the Judges in Wales Bill.—The Bill was read, and Or. the country dealer. (A laugh.) Why limit the drawback to the&
dared fat further consideration on Friday next. quantity ? Why was the humbler dealer to suffer, and the advao-
SILK TRADE. tags coofir.ed to the larger dealer?
On the motion of the CH ANC ELLOIt of the EXCHEQUER, Mr. Alderman WOOL) said, he had stated no such thing as that
the. Order of the Day was tend for going into a Committee on the attributed to him by the Right Honourable Gentleman. lie had
silk trade several petitions front country dealers to present to the House, aed
The House having resolved itself into a Committee, his sentiments were with them. But the Chaticellor of the Esithe-
Yr. Harrison was beard as Counsel at the bar. The first quer perhaps did not know, that frequently splatter quantities
sentmem of the loarnedilentleman were inaudible in the gallery;— were cur out of the loom—less quantities than thirty, yards. He
when we heard him, he was reading an attract from the resolutions was for going with the Right Hon. Gentleman in favour of the
of the other hunch of the legislature, that the silk trade would be small dealer, anon- allowing that to him which had already been
destroyed if immediate support were not giver. to it. Ile then granted in the case of the ribb
weavers.
quoted the Rth ce Geo. 111. which impaled large prohibitions on Mr. Alderman THOMPSON said, he was quite sure, if the
artielas of silk imeorted into the country. There were various Right Honourable Gentleman went • little further, he wouldea-
Acts of Parliament granting protection to sill articles of the menu. I tisfy all parties. It had been said out of doors, that the drawback
tacture. Here he would state a part of the iteport of the Committee would amount to one million ; but he held in his hand a statement
on the subject, which asked, why, as thetrade was not as yet brought front a most respectable individual, largely concerned in this trade,
to perfection, should not protection be granted to the branch carried and, according to lids calculation, which was as accurate as human
en by machinery as well as to others? The manufacturer also be. calculation could go, that drawback would not amount to more than I
bound under another great disadvantage--the raw material was 250,0001. lie hoped his lion. Friend, the 31ember for Wareham,
heavily taxed ; this was a vital obstacle to the manufacturer;—the would move an amendmeot, extending the allowance to pieces of !
-were restrictions on labour also rendered a protection of not less thirty yards.
one third necessary. The question for the consideration Mr. BIRCH conceived that the House ought to rest perfectly
e Committee would be. if to enable this country to coos- satisfied with the propositions made by the Chancellor of the Ex-
with France in the silk trade, the system of protection chequer.
necessary, was not a continuance of that system for Lord A. HAMILTON apprehended that the justice of this
t yawn longer essentially necessary ? This country. it ease bound the Right lion. Gentleman to lay down sonic principle,
well known, would have to compete with France, and the and to abide by it. lie said he would admit the new and uncut ar-
ses of a successful competition would be obtained by tide to the drawbeck, but not the article that was cut. Now this
eireumstanme :—the exercise of labour should be per- appeared to hint a most nun and unfair principle. Suppose the
free ; the prise of the raw material should be as low to the case of a Mere 90 yards long, from which 10 yards had been cut,
facturer as it is to the foreign tradesman with whom he has was it equitable to withhold the drawback front the HO yards?
mete ; and his machinery should be as perfect if these Mr. IVto show that this WILLI.VMS s
lull was ceable ;
ground. With regard to the restrictions on labour in this coon- but, in his mind, the extreme anxiety of the Chancellor of the Ex-

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