The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1807-02-21 00:00:00

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the College of Maytoefh, fee the eduiatlon of. 1
Popish Clergymen. which, as it was orignally sista- ,
blished. was only to pest Government, WWI.
enema, bat now it aas raised to 13,0001. This
was *very large addition to the original sans, and
.s that addition was intended for the purpose of in-
creasing the buildings of that Seminary, which
would gradually bring tes claims foe an inaeaseof
its inhabitants also, thus, there was no saying
whew those applications fir additional assistance
were of 'end . We should find that institution
going on increpratia fr year to year. and
vying with the College al blip itself. This he
In
thought would be secoridar to establishing the R,-
man Catholic religion
ski Ireland, and therefore he
finad it to he consistetWeith !-.is dory to express his
negative to the granting of such as increase
Sir JOHN NEWPORT rose, and addressed the
Chairman nearly as hallows :—.. S-r, lam much
astonished at the objection which has been started
by the Right Hon. Gentleman; rr, that he should
form the conclusion from any thing 1• have propo.
sed, that a large increased demand must he made
every year. This present demand is only made
for the purpose of ercaing additional buildings;
bolt. in order to do away the °hire:lions which have
been stated, I must trouble the Committee with a
few observations upon the orinin of the Institutian
in question. Previous to the ?revolution. and pre-
'Pions to the estahlishment of this college. Cler-
gymen of the Roman Catholic persuasion were
educated abroad. That mode could hardly be
thought the most preferable for men who were
to live under the British Government. 'the
question resolved itself to this, whether Parliament
should think it oest, that Raman Catholic Priests
should receive their education abroad, or that a
large proportion of the population of Ireland
should be left without the means of instruction
in the religion of their fathm? and whether
it is better to allow the subjeecis of Ireland to be
'decried by an enlighened or by an unenlightened
prier.thood? When the Catholic Clergy were edu-
cated out of the country, Viere was a Parliamentary
Grant allowed them; and when they became infirm
and aged, there was an iacreased demand, for the
arlPP'vt of Clergymen. sent to the different parishes.
Under the circumstances of the times. such demands
guntually increased to such an extent, that many
parishes were left formerly without the means of
instruCtion. However much the Right Honoura-
ble Gentleman may wish to diminish the Grants
made by Parliament. I am convinced that the
House mint see the propriety of inserneing the
people of Ireland, by means of Clergymen of-their
own persuasion. As to an increase of the number
of scholar-, I may only ob,erve, that the Prof. sent,
appointed for the two hundred already admitted,
might be sufficient for the education of three hun-
dred scholars; so that although there should be. at
any future period. an addition of one hundred to
their present numb-r, the additional expence upon
that score would be but t ifliag."
Mr. HERBERT said, that of all the steles%
which the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir J. Newport)
had brought forward, none gave him more pleasure
than the one under consideration. fie knew well
that nothing could tend more to confirm and esta-
blish the principles of loyalty among:: the inhabit-
ants of Ireland. than instruding than in the reti-
giou they profess, and m4ltipg them feel that they
are assisted in their laadahle pursuits, by the
liberal support of the Government under which
they live.

Mr. PERCEVAL add.r.i. that he did not elm-
ccire that this Institution applied merely to the
education of Catholic Priests. lle thought it was
Wisely also to he used far the education of the Ro-
wan Catholic Gentry. when he considered that
there were nu less than eighteen dttf.•reat descrip-
tions of masters for the education of 200 scholars.
he institution was therefore impolitic. Previous to
this estahlishatent. Roman Catholic Gentlemen were
educated at Protestant seminafies. Their being
educated at a Catholic seminary, was liable to make
them cnutraa habits in early life, which might after-
wards proye prejudicial to the state, or at least to
the established religion of the country. He would
not so much quattel with the present proposed in-
- . were he assured that there would not be
avnually applications made for similar inct • ;
but next year there would perhaps be an applica-
tinu for an additional support for another 100 scho.
lats. which, at the present rate of 251. each, would
be 2,5001.

Sir JOIIN NEWPORT—" There is a secondary
College for the instruflion of Catholic laymen,
which has nothing to do with Parliamentary giants.
I believe, however. that the Priests' College does
also afford inarnaion to the Lay College, and that
the instruaors are paid for so doing. as they were
allowed very low salaries. I believe the highest
professors have only 901. a year. and the average a
the others betwixt WI. and 801. This praCtice
could not, however. be in the intention of Govern-
ment at the time of the institurion of the Priests'
College, as the Lay College was not established till
foar or five years afterwards. The professors were
originally appointed from amongst a very loyal set
of persons, who. having been persecuted in France,
were driven from their situations in their untie*
country, and took refuge in Ireland, where ft was
thought better to give them such situations, than to
support them as idle member, of society.
Mr. GRA rTAN said. that the question was.
whether Parliament should thiuk it was mast pro.
dent to instruel the Roman Catholic Laity, by a
Roman Catholic Priesthood, of a foreign education,
or to enable them both to be instia.led at lime!
By Parliament going further in their support, they
will enable the Catholic Priests to procure their edu-
cation at home, and a fatal policy would be avoided,
more dangerous than ever existed, even in times of
Catholic superstition. In his mind, thereto', it
was a most pi udeutial step that the Irish Parlia-
ment had adopted. when they crtablished an Insti-
tution for the iustruetion of Catholic Priests in
Ireland, because it was the most probable
means of arnalgansatin4, as it were, the two
religions. For that potpie too, he did not ofeet
to the Laity of Ireland being so ms:tuaed. When
he cmssifered the sum nee-ssary to accomplish
that desirahle end, I.e could nit help thinking it
WAS exceed.nlity small, compared with the °Nee
in view. It was surely a small 'Nonce incurred,
when Parliament, by giving 11.0001. a year, afford-
ed thz (seam of, Lisauaing three and a b;11. ash-


lions of people. Re could net that any per.
son should cornplain reisany prodigality in a uses.
sure SS ferourable „to the vowel policy of ,tlte
country. What witothere, he would ask. 'het
ought to be more an eked ef the public care, that
the horse education of the Cailsoltcs ? " In so
much," said Mr. Grattan. " AS the home education
of the Roman Ca. holies of Leland produces *Regis
*nee, in as mtrch does a foreign education tend to
produce their disloyalty."
Mr. BANK ES he thought this matter came
before the House not As a fir •si tut as a growing
establishment ; and. therefore. it became the Hou-ti
to look to it in various points of view. It was
evidently a matter of increased expenditure almost
unlimited. The expence of the edacation of
Prie,ts must increase in proporion to the demand for
them. Who could say that IS Professors, or even
1000 of them, would be sullirient These Colleges
were principally for the higher, and not for the
lower order nt the people. Could there be a
d-iubt that this tends to keep up the spirit of
the Catholic Religion in Ireland? lie cautioned
the House to pause before they determined upon
such an important point. It looked like what he
should always deprc'ate, the estatlshment of the
Catholic Religion, which he deemed to be dangerous
and suhversive of Government.
Captain HERBERT said, that if this measure
was to in-roduce the Catholic Religion, as the
Honourable Gentleman who spoke last suppos-
ed, it should indeed make him, pause long be-
fore he assented to it. If it was acknowledged
(as it seemed to be) that it was a preferable
scheme to educate 11.iests here, rather than
abroad, whence they were likely to bring home
most dingerois principles ; he was sure that it
must also Ise acknowledged, that the total absence
of well educated Pastors would tend to produce a
most pernicious influence, by a total want of reli-
gious prinziples. He begged to remind the lion.
Gent. who evosed the scheme, that the clarvier he
alluded to. had already horn proved in erance.
There the Roman Catholic Pt irsts were di iven from
home, and Prot, sums were showed to
Was it to be argued, that Prote.stant Christians have
thereby increased in that country ? kle believed,
that their number had woefully decreased by that
very measure which had bean adopted for their in•
crease.

Lord STANLEY said a few words in support of
the Resolution, 23 be thought it would not tend to
incr. an the Catholic Religion, but ultimately to en-
courage that of the Protestants.
The Resolution which had trivets rise to this &is-
cuscinn, was then put, sod cat tied.
All the other iteinlutions were severally agreed
tot the House resumed, and the Repott ordered
to be received on Monday next.
APuLITIONI OF 'OW SLAVE TRADE. _

_ ........... _____
Lord IIOWICK. moved the order of the day
for the &mond reading of the Rill for the Aboli.
tion of the 81Ave Trade, and &At Counsel be forth-
with ordered to attend.

General GASCOYNE submitted 'to the House,
whether it was not too late a time of the night, to
enter en the consideration of so grave and inipo:ta.tt
an inquiry ? It was understood, that the day would
hare been solely devoted to the discussion of the
not.go,ure. He, theteiong pet it to the Hollio to
postpone the busine%suntil Monday.

•
Mr. FULLER coinciled ia the opinion, that it
was rather late to commence the discussion. It
was much more desirable to have the Counsel at
the bar at three o'clock, the usual hour of the
House being assembled.
Lord HOWICK fully admitted the importance
of the quvstion, and that it was entitled to the
fullest discussion. At the same time, he could not
see any necessity for postponement, particularly
when it was arranged, and generally tin2erstood,
that Counsel were only to be heard this night ; and
the debate to take place on the committal of the
Bill, on M .nday.
The Motion of the Noble Lord being carried in
the affirmative, Counsel were called in accordingly.
Mr. Dallas appeared for the West India Pisnt-
ers, Proprietors, and Traders, of the Island of Ja-
maica.

Mr. Alerander, for the Merchants and Traders
in the Aftiesn Slave Trade, horn the Port of
London.

Mr. Clarke, for the Mayor and Corporation of
Liverpool, and the Trustees of the African Docks.
Mr. Scarlet, for the Planters and Proprietors in
the Island of Trinidad.

Mr. ILllas attlres.ed tie House, at considerable
length, in behalf of the Planers of the Island of
Jamaica, and concluded with a request of being al-
lowed to produce evidence to substantiate his po-
sitions.

Hord HOWICK observed, that in the able state-
ment of the Learned Counsel there was nothing
advanced with which the House was not acquaint-
ed in previoas discussions of this tribie. In the re-
ference spade to the revolution in dr' Island of St.
Doming*, the inflate:lce which had been shown by
Counsel was merely a mattes of opinion. If the
House should on every occasion listen to similar
requests to adduce evidence, the question would
never be he eight to a decision. As to what was
advanced by the Counsel relative to two spies being
vent from St. D'imingo to the island of Jamaica, he
WAS ready to admit the matter of fan, and therefore
k was unnecessary to call evidence for the purpose
of proving that circumstance.
Gen. GA SCOY N E thmtght the hearing of evi-
dence so necessary, that he felt it incumbent on
h:m to submit a to the Howe, for allowieg
the Counsel to produce his evidence.
Mr. MI-LEM seconded the Motion, as he felt
convinced, that in refusing to hear evidence, there
WAS neither fairness, propriety, or decorum. The
Nable Lord ha! said, that some of the conclusions
of the Learned Counsel were mere usurers of
opinion. He would in answer ask, how was this
country governed, but by matter of opinion Flow
was the Admiralty managed f Had not the Noble
Lord a very near relative conflated with the Ad-
miralty, mhos, speech in the House of Lords
/Near! hear!) had proved the danger of this
measure.

Mr. IIIBBERT professed his wishes to have
evidence herd.

Sir CHARLES POLE expressed a similar opi•
aino, and contended chit the African Slave Trade
was aeither tiajtait or impolitic, whilst its abolition

would prole in its erels as aktt of hatharity to the
negrosi !bonne:to%
Mr. WILBERFORCE was at a lost to astettaia
the views of kiln. Gentlemen in asking for m,
dstice, after the numerous and ample tlidessionis
the moasure hat. :ow ti:ree years. receivr!j. ha 1
below stairs and in Commi7ttes abote. With te.
sp-& to the n store tof the, evidence which the
t,e,rned Counsel wished to edduce, he had int:.
'rnat-.4 and-lire to examine an Han. Member of that
litottie Whatever Bald the • informatiom of that
Hon I 4 tither mtght throw on the subjeCt, the time
for &sett:dog the principle of the Bill would aff.4
the natin bene6tial oppinunity. But it was oast
Gortruor of a Wed Indi r island that he
felt iodised to form an opinion of the treatment of
the Slave. It was impossible for a person fithr.
such an office to be implanted with the acts;
situation of those so far removed from him in tle
gradations of society. If even in this counts,' RR
inquiry was dire:led to ascertain the treatment and
habits of the peasantry, it was not from the higher
orders of the State that the oitaft would he bra
effeCted. It was only creating isoinactss.ary delay is
enter into stria an examination.

Mr. Dallas being readmitted, the SPEAKER
informed him, that it was the resolution of the
flume, that his request for the pro.nelion of mi.
dente could not he comialied with.
Mr. Alexander, Mr. Clarke, and Mr. Scarlet,
were severally heard tor the respedive parties where
they represceed.
On the motion of GenetafGASCOYNE, TI-.A
evidtnte be heard as requened by the Cc unael tot
the Proprietors of Tiini,ed ;"
Mr.. ill/WERT thodcbt this a new ease, and as
a t t clog comprehended in thosefurnver d se •ssions,
the results of which were of such a decisive awerc,
bad some strong pretensions to turthrr
Lord HOW ICK declared him trawl: :is
opp-se the predudion of any ttsetul evident ; t.sa
he wished the Learned Counsel pait;culntly
fy to o bat points he int-tided to *Jilin° evideinc.
When Counsel•wee called in. lie was sies:red hf
the SPEAKER to state distinct y and eridicitly, to
whit :voirts he was unzions to c.:ii evidern:•.
Mr, Scarlet observed, that he wished ta impose
on the House the infant state of the cud ivatiren
Trinidad, the pledge which had been made to the
Plantes' by the British Government, end tle
cesirity of fresh importairms of African
for the improvement of theit ditLient plantations.
Mr. WILBERFORCE s. I, 'that if the pip::
faith was pledged to the planters of 'Prisf ,t
was. of course, in their power to /statism vlre,
intishe document tb that purpose. With re. .-eo
t'ic assertion, that the estates in that i-lneld
in an irrciwiate state, it would he a matter of fir ate
inquiry, to examine how far the planters were jai•
tined in undertaking a system of cultiviti .s.
incompatible with the repeated rensletions of t!•.
House. At all events, these obj!ettons and ~r;
meets could not apply to t:,e principle of it t..•.
founded on grounds of a diffeient nature;
ever, on a future occasion. it was possible to
ceive them as reasons for public compensetill
was idle and totally irrelevant, to intro lace
suhject of compensation ca the dis.Aris,vn
principle of justice and humanity. Paid. ,nt
might herea::er he incli.ed t, comp-Its4lt: whet.'
actual *jury was sustained, hut thi! 2t:V,IC.IZVI for
the abolition, scuired the viniveit idea of icy
bargain or compromise in the ac:onaplishmunt cf K•

qr. ROSE saw the sal tt in Tile. sitnie iii tie.
and thought the present an imprner time fur cull•
sidering the question of compensation.
Mr. HOWOR and Mr. BARHAM thought
justice was equally due to the proprietors of West
India estates, as well as to every other class of
mankind. Anual injury would be the co:twine ice
of this measure to many of them, and unless some
compensation was made, it trould ba cepa! to CI
aft of confiscation.

Lord HO WICK deniel that any grants of land
were given to the Planters in 'Trinidad, nor was this
public faith bound to any such pledge. On the con-
trary, in the Administration of Lord Sidmourb, a
different determination was openly avowed. As to
the measure of compensation, he could only say.
that if hereafter any injury, an effri. which he
was strongly inclined to 4•lllCretilt, WAS sustained, the
Parliament would an on its aural principle, in such
cases, as it was never slow to ind.minify private
sufferers. when affeffed by public measures s but
that was certainly a subj-d for ulterior considers
ation.

General GASCOYNF. w.is glad to beat ilia
general principle cf indemnity on tl.is mane ad-
mitted.

Lord HOWICK said. only the general principle
on which the House uniformly Me d.
Sir PHILIP Fit winds* not deny the
possibility of a case wbere compensation might be
granted; but he would ever oppose a compansatirq.
for the loss which may arise trom Gessa:ion of
the profits of a criminal and iniquitous traffic.

Mr. ROSCOE ;yes. of opinion. that when the
debt due to the rights and liberties of heinail itattitia •
was paid. it might be thought censisterst with the
genernus feeling of the House and country. to in-
demnify the Proprietors and Planters of the Nest
India Islands, (ram the ln:ses and injuri,s whit.h
they might sustain. The services th •y had certainly
rendered to the in akin,* strength of the country.
the security they provided fur the Colonies, and the
great support they hod given to the revenue, secuhl
plead in their behalf, and arrest the attemiuke of
the Government and the country. At present. the
hist and paramount duty to justice and religit n
should be performed. by quietly abolishing this
execrable and inhuman :raffia.
Mr. ROSEiur Ti io itN I'ON could not assent
to the measure of compensation. He was in tr.... 1.1
himself, and of course subjed to ds &San i Ice sad
un:ertainties; be world be obliged to any Hon.
Gentleman to indemii fy him against them. Sot the
present ume was the farthest horn the most proptt
for considering such a propotition, ah-n a me...uie
was iceout to be accompl..hed which would b • en
ornament to the !O the pr..sent age. and to
the adrninisttaion under whose auspices this signal
aft of humanity will be carried into exctrion. e•it‘i
anal of justice should nit be stained awl t.taistel
by such irrelevant observations.
Mr. SPENCIR S. ANHOPE spoke in Swot
of the immediate abolition, and eonsideved the =vas