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London, England, 1803-06-04 00:00:00

jest} ;aid, it being proved they. were _
sur tws, and the foundinp of our hat boi
it his 'd,ity to pr4viont their departure,
mend it to the French Cover Amen,

°them. He was h.tppy to find that r
tlemen, of considerehle importance
had, on this subject, shown themsei
with feelings similar to bis'own ; th'el
curred with his Maiesty's Ministers in
expressing Britishieelings, at a condo. .„ eve:story
of all the laws and rights of hospitality ; the enly
condiol which- :Ministers should have adopted,
should have been to Fave.dismised them in twenty-
Pair hours, and followed up their dismissal by a
strong and nervous memorial to the French Govern-
ment, demanding satisfaaion for such base con-
du& But it was pretended that the deficiency
of memorials on the subjea was supplied by
verbal communications ; he thought it strange in-
deed that an affair so important as this was to the
Country should have passed without any written do-
cument which could be laid before the House, as a
medium of information. He proceeded to the next
*point, the occupation of Helland by the troops of
'France, and he again expressed a satisfaaion at the
same two Members, to whom he had before alluded,
having expreSeed a parity of sentimer.t. He had no
hesitation in saying that the possession of Holland
•by the French troops was of itself a sufficient
ground for war, and he considered that Ministers
Lad been negligent of their duty in not following
up that ground of complaint in a proper way. There
were nc traces of :sty memorials presented to
France en the subjea of Holland. The answer to
this was, that there were memorials, belt they were
not presented. Nlemorials, it was said, were pre-
pared, but Lord -Whitworth had declined presenting
them, because he had reason to think they would
not accelerate the event which was so much desired,
and that it was right not to present them least they
should irritate the French Government. The next
subjea in his Majesty's declaration was Switzerland ;
he was credibly informed that it was perfectly well
known to many of the Members of this House, that
as early as last spring, there were several persons
of consideration and importance in Switzerland,
who came over here for the purpose cf having com-
munication with the Ministers of his Majesty's Go-
vernment, on the means of producing a better site-
ation for Switzerland, if a better situation could
be produced. He had heard it was with extreme
difficulty, and not till they had waited at least two
Months, that they at last attained any intercourse
with his Melssty's Ministers. lie mentioned this cir-
cuinstance, because it was important to chew that
so early as the mouth of June, this was known to
Lis Majesty's Government. We were told that
a letter was transmitted to the French Government,
and that Mr. Moore was sent to Sv. itierland to see
what hopes there were of assistance on the Conti-
nent, and whether any efforts were likely to be at-
tended with success. Unfortunately Mr. Moore
found the aft done which he wes to have prevented.
He desired to know, what his Majesty's Ministers
opinior.s were, as to the time when our interference
was most likely to have been of service to Switzer-
land—their interference had not taken place till Oc-
tober ; but why had it not been done in June ? Had
they done it in June, they might have prevented
the occupation of Switzerland by France. He next
begged permission to say a few words on the sub-
jea of Piedmont ; and he censured the consist&
of his Majesty's Ministers, in stating that the
King, of Sardinia had forfeited all right to our
interference in his favour, and that his condua
had been such that we might have declared
war against him ; this too atter that unfortunate
Prince had refused to sign a treaty with France,
because Frence insisted on its containing a stipula-
tion for the exclusion of British ships in the ports of
Sardinia, and at a time too when Sardinia was a
conquered country. It seemed we had now for-
given him, and he had again become our Ally, and
we had provided for him by the famous projet of
Lampedosa. The Hon. Member next referred to
the subjea of Malta ; the first observation lie had to
make was, that there had been 'a total want of at-
tention to that policy which it became this country
to hold with respea to Russia at the time of the
Treaty of Amiens. His Majesty had signed a
treaty, the only part of which that was difficult of ex-
ecution was that part which related to the condua of
Russia. He referred to the papers published at Paris
containing the note cf. Count Woronzow from Peters-
burg, which accompanied the projet of the terms on
which Russia would consent to guarantee Malta,
and also the nese that went along with it—the Russian
Minister writes, that the Governments of France and
England were teo equitable not to know that it was
pot in the power elthe Emperor to guarantee Malta,
since it would be impossible for his Majesty to ac-
cede to a guarantee which would be inconsistent
with what had been agreed upon anterior to the
treaty between the Emperor and Great Britain ;
had his Majesty's Ministers then entered into a treaty
for the guarantee of Malta, knowing at the time
that an anterior treaty existed, which rendered it im-
possible to carry the treaty of Amiens into execu-
tion. His Majesty must have known that there was
a prior engagement subsisting, which was inconsist-
ent with that treaty. mid his Majesty's Ministers'
persuaded the Isnipe:l-0r of Russia to guarantee an
aa ncLielr he wa. prevented from guaranteeing by a
treaty, preciously entered into with us ? He should
Wait to hear what answer his Majesty's Ministers were
prepared to give upon this subject. The next part
of the question be should advert to was oue which,
though not so important as the former point, was
yet of sufficient importance to be made the subjea
'of a distina resolution by the Hon. Mover ci she
debate. The fist remark he had to make, arose
from the publication in France cf the French papers;
we therefore found what had been the course of the
negotiations respecting, the Treaty of Anaiens.
Ever y person recall:lied the general interest thin.
was taken iu the question of the Cape of Good
Hope; with the exception of one person, all those
.whose studies, professions, and habits of life rendered
them the most competent judges upon the subject,
la-
ustnted that-it should have been a condition for peace
that that establishment should be ceded. Now-,
how did that fad appear ? It appeared that so far
from the French Government -having required the
evacuation of the Cape of Good Hope by us, the
first proposition for its cession came from the Secre-
• of State. It was the English Minister himself,
who bad stated that his Majesty's Government would
testore the Cape of Hope, on condition it should be
free port ; this was not the only circumstance of
surprise, it was not enough that the proposition
delta-nag should have oricnitted from the English

4:IIWIIMPMIEW-4

• L.er,4nen• :
being solicited by the French
there weir circumstances with
for detaining the Cape, and
it, which certainly demanded
)peared, that it was on the 12th
Liston had written word th;it he
insurance of the evacuation of Hol-

troops. On the 14th, Minister,

..aworth to remonstrate in strong
upon tuojecl,and yet, in two days afterwards
they send out instruCtions to evacuate that most
in -
portant possessit.n. He had endeavoured to state
the ground on whin' he conceived that the. resolu-
tions which had • been moved, were sunported by
evidence, clear and undeniable. He had heard no
arguments offered in reply to those which had been
advanced against Ministers, except such answers as
applied to the propriety in point of time of any mo-
tion against them. Such an argument went to the
total destruetion of the controul of Parliament over
the condnet of Ministers. It-was now a year and
upwards since enquiry hat', hPrii moved for, on the
part of himself and those friends with whom he
aeted, and they had been, repeatedly invited by his
Majesty's Ministers to defer their enquiry. Out of
delicacy, they had c'..fcrred all enquiry pending the
negotiation ; and now th'v were told, that a period
of war was not a proper ...!11C of enquiry. If this
principle was to be recooised, he should like to
know when it was possible a time should come, in
which Ministers could, with propriety, be called
upon for a defence of their public conduct. Having
made some other general observations, he concluded
by expressing his cordial approbation of the reso-
lutinos.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, the R ight Hon. Gentleman who had last
spoken did not appear to hint to have done justice to
either of the Hon. Gentlemen who had spoken in
opposition to the resolutions, neither had he done
justice to the motives which had induced his Ma-
jesty's Ministers to preserve silence. It was his wish
that as large an opportunity as possible should he
afforded to Gentlemen to express their opinion with
regard to the resolutions. It appeared to him that
there had been no want of ability on the part of the
Hon. Gentleman by whom the resolutions were
moved, yet he was of opinion there had.been as
strong arguments advanced by those gentlemen who
had resisted the resolutions ; and it was not till
after a more minute investigation of the subject that
he should have felt himself called upon to
have delivered his opinion, nor should he have risen
thus early, if the Honourable Gentleman had not
lent his name to false charges and incorred state-
ments, which, as they appli:.l the more immediately
to himself, it WftS necessary to lose no time in an-
swering. He wished to begin by stating, that, not-
withstanding all that had been said on the subjeiof
the Treaty of Amiens—notwithstanding there was a
disposition, on the part of some persons in the House,
to give up that, the importance of which others
so warmly contended for, he nevertheless wished to
have it distinctly' understood, that he was precisely
of the same opinion, with regard to the Treaty of
Amiens, as when that treaty was under discussion.
He was satisfied i was a wise and necessary mea-
sure at the time, an.. 'sad been produdive of conse-
quences the most beneficial to the country.
At this moment, he should not have had to
congratulate the country on that spirit, unani-
mity, and vigour, which it was with joy and
satisfaction he saw prevail through the coun-
try, if that arraigned and stigmatized treaty had
not taken place. He should state what he had
once before stated, that if with regard to that treaty
he was a sinner, he was a hardened sinner ; it was
his conscientious opinion that it was a treaty wise to
contract; he would go further, he felt with his col-
leagues that it was a treaty which it had been
wise to have maintained, and he had used his
utmost entreaties to maintain it till that rupture
took place. He could state with the greatest truth
that it was his first wish to see it carried
into complete effed, and well assured he was that
the same sentiments actuated all his Majesty's ser-
vants; it was their most anxious desire, that the
peace should be maintained, if it could be done
consistently with the honour of the country ; he had
not learnt, nor should he ever learn the policy of
war. When the necessity arose, he hoped he
should meet war with the spirit of an Englishman,
and never consent to sheath the sword, unless by so
doing, the honour of the country was left untar-
nished, and its safety secured. Having said this,
he was desirous of adverting to what had fallen
from his Hon. Friend. He had said, that it ap-
peared by his Majesty's Declaration, that this
country had received insults and aggressions which
it would have been more consonant to the true
English spirit to have remonstrated against it in a
stronger manner ; in answer to this, he had to ob-
serve, that aduated by the dispositions his Majesty's
'Ministers were, they felt they should not be aet;ng
tip to those principles they had adopted, unless they
had been disposed to make allowances for the dis-
position of France, and the circumstances in which
the individual at the head of the French Govern-
ment was placed. Without attempting to justify the
conduct of that individual, they felt it their duty
to make every reasonable allowance for the si-
tuation in which he was placed.—After having
his mind pampered with adulation, and his soul
elated by a series of victories that had given sp!enior
to his name, it was hardly to be expeded that he
would devote his mind to the new situation in which
he was placed ; the disposition on the part of his
Majesty's Ministers to make every allowance, had
taught them the duty of forbearance ; they had been
urged by the considerations he had mentioned, to
forbear noticing many parts of the conduff cf the
French Government: His Majesty's Ministers did
not feel, that the individual at the head of the
French Government, was a person from whom the
same condud would have excited strong indigna-
tion from other persons at other times, and ought to
' have predated ti'e 11-une effect. That this disposition
operated in the minds of his Majesty's Ministers was
amply testified by that forbearance for which there
was now so strong a desire on the part of many
Gentlemen to criminate; but he was of opinion,
that it was to that forbearance we owed that spirit
which novf, in so great a degree, seemed to animate
the country ; that spirit so necessary to the assur-
ance of success, doubtless arose from the public
feeling,. that the war hind not been sotight on the
part of his Majesty's Ministers. It was, he said, a
subject of grief and regret what had been truly
stated, that there were sufficient grounds for this war
having commenced 'trimly' months before it 11441;
but lie was of opinion, that it was much better and

. . . .
torah military , Mhsister, tritim- t Wei
larhours, he felt 1. Government ; but tip
!, and to recottb. , :regard to the or.lcr for
nt to with ,t4wards surrendering
two Hon. Openi explanation. It appe
in'that 1 November, Mr. Li
elves inica 4d received no nssura
ey had not, 'l4nd by the French tr
in that mode wrote to Lord Vs'hitvk
lu4 so vini awry terms upon the sutoje6l,