The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1824-02-11 00:00:00

POOR HATES.

Mr. STI IRISES BIM TRbil.: moved for an account of the vari-
ous sums paid by vestries during the last year, for the support of
the poor of the kingdom of Wales.7.-9nlevett.

sUPPI,I'.

On 'the motion of Mr. RlRXilii;iol, the Report of the Com-
mittee of Supply II SA brought up and reed a second time.
On the motion of the same lion. Member, it waa readved that
the House do go to-morrow into a C ' tee of the whole Ilutur
to consider the same.
ESTI3IATES.

The usual addresses fur the estimates ot the year were read, and
laid upon the table.
(1)M1111TTAl. UNDER THE VAGRANT ACT.

Mr. lIITAIE preaented • petition Imm Lotchu, labourer.
The petitionet, he was aware, woe a poor man, and therefore colitil
not be considered to posaelus, himself, much importance; but the
purport and nature of this petition wire well worthy of the serious
attention and consideration of the House, ea they complained of a
hegross interference with the liberty of the subject. The lion. 31eut-
r then read as follows :
To the Honourable the Commons of the United Kingston' of Grim
Itritainand Ireland,inyarliament assioidolsal.

..
The humble Petition of William Lotcho, Labourer,
Sbeiretli,—That your petitioner is a young man, who has been
bred up under an uncle as a labourer; that until the lith of last
Septamber his sobriety, diligence, and honesty, were never called
in question, nor Ina character impeached for any one blannable act
in the neighbourhood where he wax born and bard.
That your petitioner, on Sunday the 7th of last September, paid
a visit to a friend at (laptop, with whom he staid till half past
eleven in theevening, when on passing through a thoroughfare,
called Angel-alley, on his way lamas tsaErsex-street, Whitt-chapel,
he was accosted by a female, who inqUired of him her nearest way
to Brick-lane, Spitallielda That while he was giving her the re-
quital direetitm the watchnisn came up, and charging the woman
and your petitioner with an indecent exposure of their persons,
took them both to the watchouu•.

That your petitioner, on the *ante day, was taken before Sir
Daniel Williams, Knight, Justice of the Note, sitting at I am-
heth-street, il'hitechapel, who, upon the single oath of the watch'.
convicted your petitioner. under the Vagrseit Am, tut being a
rogre and etgatiomi, and adjudged him (with the unfortunate
woman) to one month's confinement and hard labour in the !louse
re l orrection, Ihith-lielthe. That your petitioner (with the
woman) was acconlingly eimmiitted on the same day to the !louse
of* l'orrection, where he was confined until the nest succeeding
Thursday, during which time he was daily compelled to work at
the tread.mill. In the interval between Mondsy the Hilt and Thurs-
day the 11th, the Mends of your petitioner, having been informed
of his distressing situation, waited upset Sir Daniel Williams, and
from their representation of his past conduct and character, he was
on the latter day brought frum prison to Imnibeth.street Office.,
and was allowed, with two friends, to enter into recognisance to
pnwecute an appeal against the conviction.
Your Prilli4,llrTN appeal caner on to be !leant at the Quarter
Sessions on Thursday the ith day of last Ikeember, when the con.
erection wan clumsiest. Your petitioner humbly, but earnestly, Im-
plores the attention of your Ileinenahle Douse to the serious .11141
C,111.111111( injuries of a high lie blue to complain. In the first pbecc,
your !slimmer odeninle Ohm's that the oath of the watchman was
wholly Lase, and a very slight attention to the facts of the case
n.ust convince every reasonable man that nothing like intheent ex•
Veil re 11)11111 possibly, in such a situation, have taken place. The
offence wax sworn to late been cos aaaaaa meal between twelve and one
o'clock in themorning, in a narrow dark alley, when the inhabi_
tants had retired to nest, when no window lights were to be sees, and
wilco the moon was only three days old. Indeed, the watchman
distinctly adniittml on oath, that but fur the light of his lantern,
1,. shied.' nut have been :.ble to perceive either the woman or your
petitioner.
Second—That your petitioner was not left in doubt as to the real
motive of his SCCIINT for, as the latter ninveyed firm to the watch.
house. lie complained of being allowed no more than live shilling.
for all his extra trouble; and your petitioner is well persuaded,
that had he possessed ten shillings at the time, he and the WOISS/1
nue,' have gone where they pleased. The character and liberties
of British subjects being thus made to depend on the single and
unsupported oath of a watchman, who belongs to a class eel mcn,
pro•ovhial for their poverty. cupidity, and ignorance, IN 10 reduce
Vnglishmen to the alternative of either submitting to venation or
to tie infamous labour of the tread-mill.

'Third. -'Phut your pesititmer, although innocent of any offence.
ha. hero convicted, and branded with the oil* s character of rogue
a, .1 vagabond, by which he has been undeservedly sunk in the esti-
mat ttttt of those whose good opinion it was his pride as well AN his
1:-terest to preserve.
Vitirth--That your petitioner, being too poor to pmaecute an ap-
peal without assistance, It now indebted to another person in the
sum of fifteen pound., advanced for that purpose, for which the
earnings of his daily labour are nom.taged for at least a year to
conic; while the unfortunate woman. destitute of all peettnisry re-
*moves, was compelled to work out her month at the tread...MlL
. .

four petitioner having been thus injured in his character, and
ruined in his circum*Linces, without being guilty of offence, handily
prays, that your Honourable House, which PI cosiatituitsl as the
refuge for the pone and dir oppre***ll, will grant him such re-
dress and relief as to it* wwlnm and iniden shall item nuet.

And your petitioner will ewer pray, Ike.
(Signed) W 11.1.14134 LOTCIIO.
This was the ~eve of the petitioner; and the Ifon. klenther
et:ought it to be a Maner of the highest importance to investigate
the various exercimsof sit;liority and the general conduct of Messrs.
seesbay, Dyer' !build*, *oil all those Daniels, as detailed by the
public press, for the last live or sis hit as connected with the
whitici.tration of the powers vested in them by the Vagrant .Ict.
He did cot undertake to carry the House along with him ; but he
would affirm, that in rc.pect to the power of bailing, there was no
middle course of proceedinit, as far we the exereise of a sound dis_
e'en ion was required. As an instance of his sastetion, he would
feet Ind the House that IMMIC time since a distinguished Prelate was
atmOted to moderate tend imme.liste hail; and that, about three
day. 'once. some stolen plants were blond in the pororution of a
gardener, hitherto of the meat unimpeachable character, and bail 05
the most respectable nature was attired and refused. The !Magis-
trate declared he would not take it, and to prism he should go.
lie thought it of impottance that these matters shoold he known
to the Secretary of state for the Dome Department. in whose power
and %object to whet,. (wont' eh-se paid Magistrates were, tic
tt mig'et it important to the piddle that the extent of sound discie.
emsh odd be defined in matters of boil. With respect 10 tins
?vier, everything depended upon the attention 1111141 caution of
these Magistrates, and the manner in which they were selected to
was ready to admit that, in three or tour cases of
tie Act to which he alluded. petitions were Wit
Secremert of State, who, upon examination
t, devoted it his duty to extend relief to the

parties; but In the matter before the noose no each relief was'
granted. In the case of this petitioner, three days elapsed, from
Monday to Thursday, before his friends knew where he was, or
before he could muster the means of making an application for
rickets. .1t Se contrived to enter an 'epee to the Quarter
Saslow ; pnicexiimi, however, cost the pouf man the sum of
Ibt., and to obtain it he was compelled to mortgage his labour fee
the next year. At the Soriano to which he appealed, the prose-
cutor di! not :limn!, I nil he was in comequencedismissed. But
as to tie: intrortisn.te woman, she could not procure so much
looney, and erns oblihed to remain in prison and at hard labour for
the sptce of a month. What system of justice, he would ask,
was this ? It was true, there were laws in abundance, but if there
were not money to po;chase them, they were found to be of no
value whatever. lie hoped the htinging this petition before the
House would be productive of this benefit, if of no other, that the
discussion upon it would prevent its happening again. Hr had
plan.d this petition in the hands of the Secretary for the Home
fhpartatent, and he was happy to think, that by this proceeding
these aggravated injuries would not in future be committed upon
the personal liberties of the subject and the laws of the land.
Whilst upon this subject, be would wish to enter into a comparison
of the number of persons committed by the paid officers of police,
and the Magistrates of the City of London. The number of -
rnittals by the latter was comparatively small, and those tried were
generally convicted t so careful and anxious were them Magistrates
in the discharge of their duilzid so cautious were they in send-
ing any persons to those of confinement, where many of
them must, of necessity, contract stains which could not be effaced.
lie would show to the Cruse by authentic documents, that in the
year there were committed by the Police Magistrates 11;52
persons ; of these, 4711 were acquitted ; the number of bills not
found amounted to PM, and there were 20 who were not prosecuted
at all ; the aggregate of these wee Me. The number of those com-
mitted by the Magistrates of London in the sante time, was 420;
of these, 79 were acs witted •• and the bills nut found were 35;
making a total of 114. The committals front the City and
County acre 2072 ; of those convicted, there were 135 fined and
ilschargril ; privately whipped and discharged, 29; and there were,'
by his calculation, discharged front the Courts, 2911--from Lon-
don, 114; thus, nearly one half of these comntitted were discharged
at the Asides, injured in character, degraded by the committal,
and rendered worse, if not totally ruined, by bad example and so-'
tidy. Thus it was evident that the great majority was sent by the
Police Magistracy to that sink of Iniquity, the Old Bailey. It
was therefore 'subject for the most *minus consideration of the
Ministers, whilst the country was expendinz large sous for the
purpose of improving the moral feelings of the people, and of
giving a higher tone to those of the lower class, that such large
numbers should he sent to a place of moral contagion; it win, he
would repeat. a subject of grave consideration with the Ministers,
to select proper persons to fill the situation of Police Magistrates.
firest judgment shook, be exerted in this choice, and it it were,'
nothing none would be heard of such acts as those lately committed
by Messrs. Dyer and Swabey. lie did not wish to cramp the au-
thority which Magistrates should have, but it should be placed
under a wholesome !heck. Ile did not know what steps the Secre-
tary of State had taken upon the present occasion, or if he had
taken any ; he might have easily directed inquiries to be made
respecting the watchman. Ile was sorry for trespassing on the
pattenceof the House so long, but he hoped that a discumion on
the subject would prevent a recurrence of such circumstances. In
the statenorin which he made, he did not mean to condemn the
committal of the petitioner upon the testimimy of one person ; this
he was aware was not a new pmceetliog. The bill itself was toes-
pirc next September, and before that time there would be an op.
portnitity of investigating it mere at large. There was, as it stood
at present, one clause which produced much of the mischief com-
plained of; he meant that which offered a reward of five shillings
it head for those umeriard ender the ifcr. Upon the question for re-
ceiving of the petition being put,
Mr. 111111"se N was obliged to the lion. Member for the courtesy
which he exhibited in giving hint a copy of the petition which
he had that night presented ; and he would maintain, that when the
matter was fairly examined, it would not he found to contain any
feature whatever of that hardship which the Honourable 31ember
had represented. The farts of the raw were, that upon the night
mentioned, the petitioner was deteord by the watchman, in com-
pany with a common woman of the town. The fact was deposed to
by the watchman, and was not at the time denied by the other
party. There was no money paid to the watchman. lie did not
receive sixpence; there was a discretionary power respecting this
vested in the Magistrate. Irpon petitioners' appeal to the sessions,
he was admitted to bail ; and, upon the trial. he was acquitted, not
upon the merits of the cause,—din they were not at all examined,—
but he escaped in consequence of terrine technical error in the pro-
ceedings. 'With respect to the female, she was a common woman
of the town, and suffered the sentence passed upon her. On the
entire rase the Magistrates had no discretionary power. The con-
duct of the parties was an act of vagrancy, and was punished as
such. lie would therefore maintain, that the allegations contained
in the petition respecting harshness of conduct were untrue.
Mr. I.ITTLETON hoped that certain impressions which had
gone abroad respecting the Vagrant Act should not attach them.
solves to his lion. Friend the Afereber for Staffirrd, who was known
to he the mover and framer of the Act in question. The okjeet of
all his labours was, the mitigation of the severity of the old Acts
respecting vagrancy ; and, as a proof of the success of his friend,
he would mention, that offences, which under the old Act would be
punished with tramportation for seven years, were now only liable
to imprisonment for two years. Formerly whipping could be in-
flicted by one Alagistratc ; at present it required the sanction of a
Court of Quarter helPlitWlS. And such was the constant endeavour
of his friend to mitigate the severity of the old Acts, that in his
1191 he has inserted a clause, giving to the Magistrates before whom
the conviction had taken place, a discretionary power Mdiandining
the party unpunished, though an actual act of vagrancy had been
committed. lie hoped the House would not proceed to a discus-
sion of the measure until his Honourable Friend, of whom it would
not be unjust to say, that he knew more of the subject than others,
was recovered front a fit of illness which at present detained him
from the House.

Mr. PEEL said, that he could not refrain from thanking the
Hon. Member for the courtesy which had governed him in the
course which he pursued, in giving him a copy of the petition
which he had this night laid before the 'louse; but in adverting to
this, he must also declare that the courtesy of the lion. Member
was near misleading him. lie did not think the lion. Member
would have mixed up other matters of discussion. Ile did not
think lie would have used the comments which lie had made upon
the conduct of the Magistrate... He did nut think that he would
softer inure comments to pass without remark. It was pertectly
correct that in some former cases he had received unite petitions
from persons convicted; and he thus had an opportunity of ad-
vising the Crown upon the subject; but in the present case he had
gavel% eel no inhuman 111 l , and therefore he had no such opportunity.
%Vitt' respect to the injury complained of by the petitioner that he
was nmileimied upon the oath of a single watchman, whose only
object was to extort money, and that, as I matter of course, a
watetionen lining proverbial for poverty, cupidity, and avarice, he
should not he thus convicted. This he would admit was an ar.
moment iwrfectly natural to the persons convicted, but it was not
equally PO to the Magistrates before whom he was convicted, and
a 110 il,siteel it proper to credit the oath of that watchman. As to
the reward of live shilling*, which, according to the honourable
31,niber, was the temptation to these Acts • in the old Acts
the r..warel was ten shillings • and thus, in the present Act the
inducement was d' • 'shed ; 'besides, it did not follow that the re.
ward was to follow the conviction, for the Magistrates, with whom
he had moat intercourse, had his direction% not to certify to the pa.
Ti1111(11 for this reward unless they ascertained that the conduct of
the peace-officer was influenced by a seal for justice. Ile would
aglec most cordially with the Honourable Member who had ;itst
sat down, that the design and object of the member for Stallind were
to mitigate as
Acts with respect to the offence with which the petitioner was
charged. Ilediel nut think there was a • flagrant or atrocious
one than indecent exposure of the person, and few persons had
an idea to what a length such practices were at one time carried in
the rade, and of the nundwrlues insults which were offered to fe.
males ; but he would make a wide distinction between these
esposur... which were intentional and those winch were acci-
dental and without design. lie thought the scale of punishment
as at present allotted to these Acts, was incorrect ' • In the one case i
was too severe; in the other it was not suflicientli so. lle agreed
with the honourable Member, that the value an utility of stipen.
diary Magistrates depended entirely upon the care and attention
with which they attended to the duties of their situation ; and he
would take merit fi.r himself, as well as for his predecessor in
office, fir attending as strictly as possible to this principle. Lord
Sitimouth, whose example in this matter he followed, did rot ap.
point am individual to the otlice of Magistrate, unless he had been
called to the bar, and hail practised three years; and by this
11111114 C a certain portion of legal knowledge was required in and
possessed by the person thus appointed. For himself he never
made any engagements; lie merely attended to those who were
best fCCO 11111111111111 l and who possessed die necessary legal attain.
tents. The hon. 3lember had commented freely on the con_
duct of Mr. Swabey and utiles Magistrates. On this subject he
would al,stain from saying anything, as these miners were not
properly before the house. As to his remarks upon the bail taken
tor a certain prelate, by Mr. Dyer, the hon. Member must know,
that upon %Mlle subjects a Magistrate had no discretion ; he conld
not refose it, and he was obliged to be moderate in his conduct.
There were other arts, as in the ease alluded to by the honourable
Member, in which bail could not by any means be taken,
and this mar he the case, though the crime which was bailable
might be of a more loathsome die than that which could not be
:ailed. With respect to the difference of the committals made by
the country Magistrates and those of !motion, lie hate madcap-ism
Peir ease of great importance; and it was for this he disapproved
of the conduct of the honourable Member, in alluding at since to
so many important topics; but the disproportion may not, after all,
be so great as it was stated; many of those committed by the po-
llee were row • ed by those who laid the pown• of summary
punishment. Anti in eases like these there could lie no subsequent
conviction, for there could be no trial. Ile was ready to grant that
the Vagrant Art required amendment, and he would give his
o(tinions when the matter OMes before the house for discussion.
'I here was, for example, one clause elf it of which he disapproved,
--that which oblige-el a Magistrate to sentence to a month's labour,
and hard labour. Here the Magistrate had no discretion. lie
ought, in his opinion, to have the power of reducing this penis' to
a lea% as circumstances required. Ile would state his sentiments
more hilly when there was a distinct notice before the lint se.
Mr. HUME Insisted, that with respect to the conviction of the
petitioner. it depended merely upon the 'moment of tine individual
against the other. and in regard to the act for which he was punished,
crowded with lesitaks as the streets of die metropolis were, there
wax not a Member of the house who was not liable to be found in
the vine situation. llmud laughing.) The I immutable Member
said, he moult that every gentleman was liable to he accosted by
a woman inquiring her way, and sit course be should except from
the chirp those who had not the civility to make her a reply.
,\tiers few words in explanation fruit Mr. PEEL,
'l'he SPEAKER put the qui:bairn, that the petition Or printed.

iMa e
aniilllltheTblrs exclaiming " No," as *ell al many in the al:
nn , gallery was cleared for a division.
Upon our return, we found no division had taken place, and the
petition was ordered to lie on the table.

C4I3IIIINATIC/N LAWS.
Mr. STUART N'ORTLEY presented a petition from certain
artisans, mechanics, and labourers for hire, in the West Riding of
Yorkshire, complaining of the injury dune to the country at large
by the Combination Laws, and praying for their repeal.
Ordered to lie on the table.
1111511 CLERGY, BARRISTERS, Ike.
hotel ALTHORP, in bringing his motion before the House,
was aware that he was liable to the objection that he was making
a motion respecting a part of the empire with which he had no im-
mediate connexion. To this he would answer, that he was in-
fluenced by toe expectation and hope of being able to confer some
public benefit& and, as he meant to suhmit at a later period of the
Session a motion respecting the general state of Ireland, the pro-
duction of the papers he thought would give great facility to
the measure which he had in contemplation. Ile would first move
for papers respecting the state of the Church and the state of the
Clergy. He would next moist for a return of the appointments of
Roman Catholics to those plat-es which they were by law authorised
to till. To the production of these documents he did cut anticipate
any objection; it was not likely that ally would be given. lie also
wished to know die gross and net amount of the Revenue collected
in Ireland, from the year IBM to the year 1024, specifying the va-
rious articles on which duties are charged. Ile also trusted that
there would be no objection to his motion for knowing the 'mother
of Clergymen resident in their parishes and the nanon of these
parishes; the residence of good Clergymen was at all times desir-
able, particularly in Ireland, on account of the alrience of so many
of the landholders. It was particularly desirable that the Clergy
should be resident, and should, in the education of the poor, do all
the good in their power, and should imitate the conduct of a dis-
tinguished individual whose preferment to the see of Limerick he
stated with pleasure and 'satisfaction. Ile was not acquainted with
Jebb, butt he was proud to see the elevation sit a Clergyman
in whose pariah, amidst all the scenes of violence that had occumsl
in that part of the country, not a single outrage was committed.
Ile would ask for papers which would tend to outrage
the amount of,
church property, and he wished to be distinctly understood as not
wishing or intending to injure that property. His object would he
not to injure; it would be to serve the property of the Church. Ile
also required a return of the rumbas of acres of which the church
landed property consisted. Ile would ask to know generally in
what proportion the Roman Catholics filled those situations, which
the laws enabled them to fill. It would be recollected that the Act
of IBC pointed out and spectfied by exceptions those offices not at-
tainable by Catholics & thereferse those not excepted were by law
within their reach, and it would tiptiesw from the mode adopted by
the tiovernment is bestowing those situations, how far arid to what
extent the Catholic's of Ireland ought or ought not be satisfied. Ile
also would wish to know how many Roman Catholic Ilarristers had
patents of precedence within the last live years, how flinty of them
had been appointodio the situation of Coininissionerc of Appeals in
revenue cans; and bow many of them were Clerks of the Peace
and Crown Solicitors.

Mr. IiOULBURk said he did not intend to offer any opposi-
tion to the motion which the Noble Lord opposite (Lord A hhurp)
then held in his hand. lie was sure that every Member in the
House would bear tatimony to the zeal lie had at all times tbs.
played on subjects which related to the clergy of Ireland. And he
now pledged himself, as well as the Lord Lieutenant of that coun-
try, that everything should be done which it was practicable to
do. Ile rose, because he conceived it his duty, to give notice,
that he intended shortly to Introduce a Bill into the House on the
subject.
Mr. HUME observed, that clergymen were often put down in
the returns as resident clergymen, when it was notorious that they
were absent from their parishes, eleven months out of the twelve.
lie wished, therefore, that the time of their residence should be
particularly aoted--whether it was for six, nine, or eleven months
an the year.
Lad A LTHORP agreed in the propriety of thesuggestion made
by his Hon. Friend.
Mr. HUME said, that he should propose their division into four
classess as madams of three, six, nine, and twelve months.
Mr-CHOKER did not know such an arrangement could be made
without an application to each individual on the subject.
Mr HUME observed, that there were but 1,280 clergymen to
' question, and that they might be easily asked.
Mr. V. IiTZOERA LB said that he thought It would he most
nto avoid casting any stigma on the Bishops of Ireland ;
and ha hot we how such an inquiry could be made without do-
ing so. lie would detain the House on another point. It was im-
possible for any one who haul attended to the debates on such af.
airs, not to know that the government of Ireland had used every
exertion to induce the residence of clergymen in their parishes, and
in some instances to enforce it.
Mr. HUME then moved an amendmait to the motion of the
Noble Lord tAltborp), that the number of months each incum-
bent VMS resident in his parish should be particularly specified ;
and that they should be divided into four classes, those whose re-
sidence was of 3, G. V, or 12 months. lie would take this oppor-
tunity to observe that no stigma could be eat on the Irish Bishops.
His Majesty's Ministers (he believes! in 11119 and 1820) had issued
an order that the Bishops should make such a return as WM now
moved for, and two only out of the number did so. Ile thought the
House owed them but little delicacy.
Sir J. NEWPORT did nut recollect any such return having
been called for.

Mr. V. FlTZGERAl.Dobcierved, that Mr. flume had mis-
taken his meaning. He did not say that the house ought to treat
the !rah Bishops with delicacy I but he said that any amendment
pounded on a debate in the House, as to the residence of their cler-
gymen of one month out of twelve, would be stigmatizing their
conduct.

---1
r. ---1111 ME said • , that the Ilmiourable Member had not under-
stood what he (Mr. Hume) had said. Ile only wished to know
what the term of their residence was.
Mr. 1101111.1111 RN thought there mut another objection to the
amendment. The law distinctly stated, with respect to many cler-
gymen, that the residence of a certain number of 1111 l nths should he
considered a residence. He thought it wrong to question persons
who had done what the law required them to do.
Dlr. PEEI. wished to know to what time the mover of the
amendment intended to refer, as it would be necessary that some
time should be specified in the inquiry.
Mr. 111! ME mentioned the term of one year.
Mr. PEEI, thought it would be unfair to form an opinion on
such a limited period. l'arious causes might render neces-
sary the absence of an incumbent front his parish. himself or his
family might have been iIL Ile conceived it could not be done
fairly without specifying a number of years.
Mr. 11l HIERTSI thought it an imperative duty on the Irish
clergymen to reside in their parishes, particularly as the Catholics
were increasing. Ile thanked the Noble Lord for the observations
he had made, and entreated him to persevere in bringing forward
his motion ; and he hoped the British menibers would support it,
because he conceited that more good would arise to Ireland from it
than from any other course which could be suggested.
The motion, as amended, was agreed to.
Alr. in reference to the motion respecting the
glebe lands, observed, that it was not an easy matter to comply
with what the Noble Mover required ; and any permin who had,
like himself, looked into the affairs of Ireland, must be perfectly
aware of it. It was quite impossible that the return which had been
moved for could be made uutil the number of acres in Ireland
had been ascertained.
Sir J. NEWPORT observed, that it was true we could not tell
the number of acres in Ireland ; but it was also taste that the Irish
Bishops must know from how many acres they obtain their dues.
The only church lands in Ireland are the lands held tinder the
chapter and the glebe lands. In neither instance could there be
ignorance of their extent. Ile thought if there were no objection
to the utility of the measure, there could be none to the Act.
Lord A LTHORP agreed in the opinion of the Him. Baronet.
Mr. MA BER lA' thought the House might as well abandon the
subject of Ireland, if the secretary would retain papers on subjevoi,
which, like the present, were of inch importance.
Mr. 0013.11.11 RN observed, that he never objected to grant
any papers. On the contrary, he had recently postured to the
number of 30,0110 at the request of the lion. Baronet opposite (Sir
J. Newport).
Sir J. NLIP I'OllT declared that Mr. Goulburn had granted no
such thing, although he (Sir J. Newport) certainly did apply for
papers on a Immix night, relating to parish rights ; and, if they
were voluminous, he thought the people had a right to know how
and why they were taxed.
The motion was agreed to.
Mr. IR LIB RN (on the subject of the Assistant Barristers
of Ireland) was aware that there could be no difficulty in tile con-
, sideration of it; the only difficulty was is ascertaining who were
Poitestants„ who were Catholitx,, and who were Presbyterians,
without going further than the !louse had alright to go, in obliging
individuals to reveal their private opinions.
Mr. 111 'M E said that nothing could be more simple; it was
only mask the question, and the thing was done ; aud lie thought
it of the utmost importance that it should be is..

laird A 1.1 111 could not we the difficulty which the Hon.
lientleman (31r. Peel) had seen because it was as notorious in
Ireland who were Catholics and who wch Protestants, Who were
Barristers and who were not ; and he could not conceive that there
was any indelicacy in asking the question. The motion was for the
purpose of ascertaining how many Assistant Barristers were
Catholics.

Mr. :HARI:IIIA' observed, that although the Irish Sec►etary
might he informed on the subject, the English Members were not.
Ile thought that if the Secretary was irclined to withhold the
papers on this subject, whirl' the House was entitled to, many
others would also he withheld. Ile t Mr. lalierly) was sorry that
a conversation on Ireland should irritate.; but he feared tbe ob_
sercoinn would apply to every question On the subject of that
. . .

1111r.1'ROK Ell wished to say a few words on the question. Ile
observed that under the old laws which applied to Ireland, every
man who offered a vote was obliged to take an oath Cutt he was not
a papist.
of allegiance to his 31:linty. which was called the " Test Oath."
The laws were in such a state, he would not say disgraceful, but
they site confused and absurd. Ile would give an instance in ex-
emplification :—every body knew, indeed he had just stated, that,
at first, every Min who came to rote was obliged to swear that he
was nut a papist ; and that afterwards he was allowed to vote on
taking the oath of allegiance. Ile (Mr. had seen; at an election.
a Catholic come to give his vote Ile was asked fin the certificate of
his having taken the oath, which he had lost. The man had the pre-
sence of mind to sat that lie had lust it, and to add—`• I will not rot:
as aratholit, I will votes's,' Protestant:* A nil he ( Mr. C.)saw that
man give his oath, as a Protestant, mewl.; because he had lost the
oath he had taken as a Catholic. lie believed the laws respecting
ta!helics, when considered as they are executed. can never remain
as they are. Ile apprehended, when barristers were admitted, they
now took the Catholic oath of alleginace,
111 c. PEEL said, that a law already existed, which required a

The Unman PlitEss commenced publishing yestaday
morning at five o'clock.

LONIX/N. IVEDNESDAY, FEBIWARY li, 1824.

The great West India Meeting took place yesterday, at
the City of London Tavern. It was most respectably at-
tended. The great room was filled by an assemblage of
gentlemen of the first wealth and intelligence connected
with the Colenies. No meeting of more importance, whe-
ther we consider the immense stake and interest at issue,
or the personal safety of thousands committed in the result,
has taken place for years. None of the " Saints" or West
India Legislators per excellence, thought proper to at-
tend : the African Association, and Bible Societies, are
the scenes of their " holy " labours, where they can pour
out their pious sighs and aspirations, for sable redemp-
tion, in full fervour undisturbed ; but their absence was
not felt. One individual however did put himself for-
' ward, on what assumption we know not, and proposed a
string of counter-resolutions, which were heard and nega-
tived by an overwhelming majority. (ht what ground of
principle or possessions, this sable philanthropist con-
ceived himselfjtutified in coming forward, his own zealous

piety and modesty must answer. But those professions of
humanity and zeal are cheaply made, which involve neither
the property nor liossescions of the individual urging them,
but are all conceived at the risk and cost of others. Thus it
was Mr. or Major Dalbiae, we know not which, played
the part of negro emancipator on this occasion, and wee
abundantly speculative and generous, at the unbounded
cost of his neighbours. We request attention to the
speeches of Mr. Rose Ellis, of Mr. Palmer, Mr. Carring-
ton, and Mr. Ilibbert ; they present a jest view of this
important subject. There can be no question, as the Chair-
man stated, " that attempts have been made to misrepresent
" the condition of the negroes, and calumniate the chase-
" ter of their toasters, and by those means to raise a flame
" in the public mind, that may urge the Parliament and
" :overninent to adopt measures involving a violation of the
" property of the West India planters and merchants." The
discussion on this dangerous and agitating question last Sts-
lion was brought on by surprise; it was thrust upon the
House with all the mock sanctity and solemnity which the
holy sectaries, who got up the pious farce of preparation,
knew so well how to assume. They had their tears and
groans at command. The romance of suffering by the
" hapless" aegrocs was stuffed full of sufferings and
horrors. Mr. Buxton, as a new performer, full of the
" spirit," took the place of the veteran IVilberforee, and
in solemn accents, and most lugubrious tones of lamenta-
tion, played leis part most successfully. The delusion,
however, has since become manifest. The country, iq
general, is awakened to the gross and utter humbug. The
%Vest Indians, with insurrection and ruin around them,
have been roomed to self-preservation ; and they now come
forward to make, in the names of justice, of prudence,
and real humanity, their appeal to the highest authority
in the country. " The Committee (Mr. Ellis said) have
thought that in the present disturbed state of the
" %Vest India Colonies it is peculiarly proper to appeal
" to the King, as the authority alone to which all the
" inhabitants of these countries can alike look up with
" deference and respect, unmixed with any portion of
" disgust or jealousy." The Committee are right: the
highest appeal in inch a case is the best : there can be no
paltering on such an occasion : the rights, the property,
and the lives of thousands are at stake, involved by the
fanaticism of worse than visionaries ; and the strongest
arm in the State can alone arrest the ruinous torrent of de-
struction. The appeal to the Crown, therefore, in this
case, is the legitimate and rightful one. The Paitioa is
strongly worded—some will say violently ; but courtly or
half-language would now be out of season. The West
Indies are menaced with nothing short of ruin : if the
career of the abolitionists be not stopped, their destruc-
tion is certain. We arc as warm friends to general liberty
as any of the party whose ficry zeal is so prominent on the
negro question. We trust, also, that a sensible ameliora-
tion of the condition of the African race throughout
the West Indies will gradually take place; but in the
session of IHW., and many previous ones, when the
dreadful Insurrection Act was again extended to Ire-
land, and it was even a question whether the horrors of
Martial Law, with the halberds, pickcttings, and free quer.
wrings of another dreadful period, should not be renewed
in that country, we heard even the Members on the Oppo-
sition benches say, that, when insurrection and murders
were desolating that island, it was no hour for conciliation
or measures of amelioration—that force was then the

legislation that could be used. Pacify and tranquillise,
Mr. Calcraft and others said, first, and then deal oul

--- benefits and reform after. If such arguments were

good and available in the ease of the white population
Ireland, ó j;wriuri they are now more applicable in

way to the Negro race and the West India islands.

the " Saints" have reserved all their pious solicitude.
blacks, and the millions of Ireland create no interest
the breasts of Mr. Wilberforce and his pupil Mr. Burton.
We trust this Session will put an extinguisher on the
structive measures of these men and their partisans,
that the influence of the Crown, which is now solnin.ly
appealed to, with the wisdom of Parliament, will as
West Indies from destruction, and protect the lives
millions of property now in imminent hazard. The
ing of yesterday, in rank, influence, and numbers,
every way worthy the cause in which it assembled, and
deliberations will, we trust, be attended with the most
neficial results.

The RESOLUTION pilstted by the Magistrates of .
ford, a copy of which appeared in our Paper of Saturda
our readers will remember, runs thus :
" That the Earl Talbot be requested, on behalf eta the:
trates present, to express to George Chetwynd, Esq. Chairman,
the Quarter Sessions of this Country, their totasiSlONL approba-
tion of his upright and impartial conduct tektite to the prosecul
and trial of Climaxes FLINT seal others, fur a misdemeanour.'
We were somewhat startled, as may wail be supposed.
learn that this Resolution was NOT unanimous; and
though put thus deliberately upon record, the Pet .
true! The following distinguished persons were among
numlxr of the Magistrates present, Lut whose signatures
not appear to the Resolution, viz. the Earl of IlarrowL.
John Smith, Esq., Thomas Kirkpatrick Hall, Esq., George
Whiedon, Esq., and Thomas Sueyd Kynneraley,
This is a strong and marked feature in the proccedil
and throws an air of suspicion over the whole piney'
We regret that persons of high character, and, we hat.
doubt, of honourable feeling, should lend thernsel,
any attempt to impose upon the public, by affirming
thing that is not. Persons holding the rank of Magian.
and who arc, or at least ought to be, looked up to
public, should be cautious of weakening their
dente, especially by putting their attestation to
fact in which truth will not bear them out.
a lawyer gets into a dilemma (and Mr. Chetwynd
a lawyer) it is permitted to I hat he should cxerci•
ingenuity, and that he should extricate himself wii
least possible injury, and with the best possible grace.
boundary line of a last yer's conscience not being very I
defined, he has, in such a case, the excuse of liabi
going beyond it. Hut this privilege does not extend
beyond the profession ; it does not, for example, e:
itself to such personages as East TALBOT, nor even I
Rerercnd Magistrates whose names are affixed to this
lution: it makes no part of Me henefit of Clergy. Mr
Cleve, Clerk, Rieliard Levert, Clerk, William Leigh, t
George Augustus, Clerk, may, fur aught we know,
very good Bishops; but they must make very bad ,11,
trees, if their recorded approbation of the conduct
t'hetwynd is to be taken as their interpretation
Christian precept, which enjoins us " to do justice,
love mercy.-

But t t return to the Resolution. There is one rani
able circumstance, of which we would take leave
some explanation. how happens it that the local 11
trates—the Magistrates living in the neighbourhood,
arc best informed on the facts of the case—the Ilonoui
11. Cavendish, the Honourable H. Vruoo, 11.
Greaves, Esq., &e.—how happens it that
Resolution has been passrd is their absence, and that
attendance teal not solicited? Did Mr. Chetwynd

I dent offices. lle.w;
convicting under the
behe• the Home S
tot the mitstuistances,