The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1825-06-03 00:00:00

BREWERS' LICENCES.

Mr. BROUGHA3I presented a petition from the retail and
common brewers of hlanchester and Salford, praying a remission
of the restrictions they were subjct to in the exercise of their trade,
more particularly es it regarded licences for retailing beer.—Laid
on the table.

LEITH DOCKS.
Mr. BROIiGIIASI presented a petition from the eight
Southern Districts of Eilinbugh, against the Leith Docks bill.
The Hon. Member said be would present the petition, though the
prayer of it had been accomplished by the rejection of the BBL
—Laid on the table.
111 R. MADAM.
Mr. BROUGHAM presented • petition from an individual
named Jame* Patterson, • rc:.d surveyor resident at Montrone,
against the grant to Mr. Ill'Adam.—Laid on the table.
RICHARD CARLILE AND lIIS SHOP3IEN.

Mr. BROUGHA M presented a petition from Richard Carlile
and five of his sbopmen, at present confined in Dorchester and other
gaols, for the publication of blasphemous writingn. The peti-
tioners stated that they had been prosecuted because they were not
Christians, and had published books which ware alleged to be stab-
versive of the Christian faith. He (31r. Brougham.) wished dia.
tinctly to s:ete that he considered indecent ribaldry and libellous
attack' upon the Christian religion as highly crimival in their
nature, and the very worst step that individuals disbelieving the
truth of the Christian religion could take for the propagation of
their principles. Supposing the ieligion of the State to be wrong,
and that those individuals were right in their assumption, they
could in no way more affront and insult persons than by
adopting such a line of conduct No course could be mare
injudicious : and yet, notwithstanding thin, he did conceive the
law should not be administered with a heavy hand upon indivi-
duals who were, he doubted not, enthusiasts and fanatics in the dis-
semination of their opinions. Toleration was at all times better
than persecution, and if they were disposed to make a foolish
attack, it was better that the State should not roake a foolish defence
of the religion of the count's'. The grand argument of those who
advocated proseeutionn for such offences was founded upon a miscon-
ception of the harm which was likely to arise from those publics-
Minn to the cause of religion ; but he could not conceive that any
harm was likely to result from free discussion of any kind, at least
not until that should be permuted to exceed all bounds, and dege-
nerate into ribaldry and offensiveness. He considered prosecutions
on account of bla..phemy as die Teat and most injudiaoun way or
defending religion ; and he hardly thought toleration could be
carried too far as it regarded the law or the individuals concerned.
Mr. PEEL, wished to avoid such prosecutions as had been
alluded to as far as possible; but the libels published by the pe-
titioners had been of the grossest kind, and most revolting in their
attacks It Nn Christianity. Wherever contrition had been manifested
by any of the individuals in question, it had received the consider-
ation it deserved, as in the case of Carlile's sister, a part of whose
punishment had been remitted, aid beg's!' free to add, he believed

THE BRI•i

PRESS.

her subsequent conduct had proved hes not unworthy of favourable
'nensideration.
After an observation from Sir Fs BURDETT and Mr.
1110Xce, which did not reach the gallery—
Mr. PEEL add, an individual convicted as those petitioners had
.5 , was confined for a specific period, and afterwanis till a certain
was paid or bail foudd for his future good behaviour, or both.
it did appear impossible to remit any portion of the punish-
alert till some pledge was obtained that the party would desist
Bowl a similar line of couduct in future : that, and an expression
af contrition, he looked upon u s sine gee two to the attainment of
&pardon or remission of his sentence.
C _ tlir F. BURDETT thought it would have been lute if Carlile
bad been let alone, and that there was great iissuetice in instituting
Iptesecutions foe opinions, however absurd and ridiculous in their
pature.
After an observation from Mr. Wisrsaie Snrrat and'Eord
isaratwo,
Air. IlitOUralAsl said it was but too evident prosecutions
-AM not succeed in preventing the works complained of being
openly sold; any man might have tbeit in the noon-day, end at
Au ordinary price. There was great injustice in prosecuting
Me. Caddie for :he publication of a cheep work, and at the same
in an Mr.
expen Marrs
grtn°r fliltrrixna'dsel'to
Historyl l lit; the Drde'le;il'tide
Awl Fall of the Homan Empire, with its anti-Christian chapter,
which, as the House knew, was one of the most dangerous avid
litre poising in existence.
Ir. HUME said theychad rejoiced dt the derrnfal of the
laquisition in Spain, anst,they new immured individuals in
tleageons, much after the same way, because they entertained
'pinions contrary to the **relent one upon points of faith. and
published books expressive of their opinions. Mr. Carlile com-
plained that his property had been drained from him, and he was
kept in prison pending the payment of a fine of 1,5001.; when, had
his property been left tinder hie own control, it would have enabled
him to discharge a fine double that amount. He wished to submit
to the Right Hon. Gentleman whether some mitigation could not
be made in his punishment, as well as in that of his sister.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the prosecution)! had
-filleted the object intended to be accomplished. namely, the sup-
ilVi.of the works in question, which were of the Most dangerous,
and blasphemous character.
r:BROUGHASI said, though these persons hadbeen punished,
an infamous printer named Benbow, who had lately edified the
public with an edition of a celebrated speech, with certain comments
thereon, had been permitted to publish a work in which he openly
justified the murder of the late Mr. Perceral ; nor was he satisfied
with being the apologist of that assassination, but he also added ,
that there were many other Ministers, who more than Mr. Perceval
deserved the sante late, and begged that no time might be lost in
inflicting on them sninniary punishment. (A laugh.) The foot rm,
these individuals were permitted to proceed without prosecution until
they went to great lengths, and then complaint was instantly made
that the law was inefficient, and the Six Acts were asked for; com-
plaint was also made that juries would not convict, which was not the
cost. He never read "Palmer's Principles of Nature,"but from what
he heard of it, he did not think it half so dangerous as the combined
sophistry and argument of Gibbon, and the subtlety of Hume; yet
these books were generally read—read too, by his Hon. and Learned
Friend (the Attorney-General) ; he had them, he made no doubt,
on the shelves of his library, and he (Mr. Brougham) was
sure they did not In the least injure the known orthodox theology of
his Hon. Friend. (A laugh.) Then there were the works of Vol-
taire, containing so much mere ribaldry (hear, hear,) in the hands
of every body ; ladies as well as others read them. (A laugh.) That
gross ribaldry was permitted to go abroad, corrupting the morals of
all the ladies and gentlemen in the west cod of the town. (A laugh.)
God forbid that he (Mr. Brougham) should wish to prosecute the
venders of these works ; he merely wished to point out the incon.
sistency. (Hear, hear.)
The Petition was ordered to be printed.
ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE IN IRELAND.
flr. BROUGHAM presented a petition from an individual
named James Dowling, complaining of the administration of justice
in Ireland--Referred to the Committee on'the State of Ireland.
CHEAP PUBLICATION OF BOOKS.
Mr. BROUGHAM presented a petition from Alr. James Gif-
ford, a bookseller -residing in Paternoster-row. The petitioner sub-
mitted to the House the propriety of diminishing—first, the duty
an printing paper; secondly, of reducing the excessive tax on ad.
vertisements ; thirdly, of lowering the exorbitant duty on news-
'papers ; and further, of repealing forthwith (what he termed) that
useless, odious, and unconstitutional restriction on the liberty of the
press, already complained of ; anti lastly, of taking into considers.
don the propriety of allowing periodical publications to be conveyed
through the medium Of the post to all parrs of the empire, on pay-
ment of a moderate sum for postage, not exceeding however in any
case the amount of 25 per cent. on the value of the article trans-
mitted.--Ordered to be printed.
COMBINATION LAWS.
Mr. HUME presented a petition from 7,950 persons residleg at
Nottingham, against the re-enactment of the Combination Laws.—
Ordered to be printed.
RUM.—BRITISH SPIRITS.
Mr. WESTERN wished to know from the Chancellor of the
Exchequer whether he would persist in allowing runt to come In
competition in the manufacture of gin with bonded spirits. A strong
feeling prevailed, not only among the barley brewers, but among
the distillers, Mot such was his intention ; he was most anxious,
therefore, that the Right Hon. Gentleman should gine information
on the subject to the House. The Hop. Member concluded by
moving, east there be laid before the House a copy of the memorial
presented to the Chancellor of the Exchequer from the distillers of
British spirits, respecting the conversion of rum into gin.
Ott the question tieing put—
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEqUER said he had no
wistcto oppose the motion. He did not *ink the document an
official one; still he had no desire to take advantage of that tech.
nical objection. As to the question put to him, he would give the
same answer which he had given to the Member foe Nortl.ampton
a week ago. It was his intention when the Distillery Bill should
be before the House, to move the insertion ofa clause, allowing rum
to be rectified ; and the difference of duty he proposed to make be-
tween British spirits and rum 40 admitted, was In. 3d. per gallon.
He would not then discuss the measure, hut merely state, that not
only did the distillers represent it as prejudicial and ruinous, but,
those for whose benefit it was intended declared that they expected
no good from :t. Being therefore (said the Right Hon. Gentleman)
situated thus between both parties, I think I am pretty much in
the right. (A laugh.)
Sir J. SEBRIGHT wished the Right lion. Gentleman to post-,
pone the measure until the next Session : in the mean time addi-
tional information might be obtained*on the subject.
An Hon. MEMBER, whose name we could not ascertain, con-
curred in the Hon. Baronet's request.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, that if
the Hon. Alembers knew the difficulties he had to contend with
from adverse parties, they would not be so sanguine in their request.
Were he to wait until het could introduce measures satisfactory to
all parties, trade must stand stock still. (Laughter.)
Ordered.
TRIAL BY JURY (CEYLON).
Mr. HUME moved for certain Returns connected with the intro-
duction of Trial by Jury in the Island of Ceylon.—Ordered.
COURT OF CHANCERY.
Sir F. BL'RDETT (as we understood) gave notice, on the part
of an Hon. Friend, that he would, on Tuesday, the 7th instant,
move, that them be laid before the House the minutes of the evi-
dence taken before the Commissioners empowered to inquire into
the practice in the Court of Chancery. (Hear, hear.)
LUNATIC ASYLUMS.
Mr. lIIISIE moved for Returns of the number of licensed mad-
houses within the bills of mortality, and also within the county of,
Middlesex, in the years 1821, 1822, and 1823, distinguishing
the names of the keepers, and the number of male and fe-
male patients, also the number under twenty-one veers of age.
The Hon. Member moved for similar Returns front the years 1813
to 1821.
After a few words from Mr. C. W. WYNN, the Returns were
ordered.

CORN RETURNS.
Mr. WODEHOUSE, after • few prefatory observations,
moved that an humble address be presented to his Majesty, thPt he
issue instructions to his Consuls at foreign ports that their at-
tention be continued to the prices of foreign corn, and that they be'
directed, in all the accounts hereafter to be transmitted by them, to
set forth the price of co a at their respective ports ; the amount of
freight; and also the prc,ible length of the voyage to England ;
and further, that it be an instruction to thetwto state. as nearly as
possible, any peculhaities in the difference of exchange between the
two countries ; the quantity of coru granarietl in their respective
ports ; the expense at which it came free on board ; and lastly, •
full account of any restraints which existed, either on the import
Of export of corn, to or from these places.
Mr. LEICESTER seconded the motion.
Mr. HUSKISSON hail no possible objection to the Address,
or to any thing which could help to furnish the fullest information
on the subject. The returns, however, could only be satisfactory
from those ports at which Consuls resided ; there were many small
porn, which had no resident Consuls, though corn was exported
from them. He wished to add, that if any Hon. Gentleman wish-
ing to acquire information as to the price of foreign corn, or in
deed on any subject connected with the corn trade, would but com-
municate his intention to him (.'.Jr. Huai:bison) he would as far as
possible assist him, and help to forward his object. (Hear.) He
feared it would be difficult for Consuls to ascertain the several ex-
penses at porta from which no exportation took plwe ; in these
places there was no trade; all the corn wan granaried up.
M r. BEN F.TT (Wiltshire) trusted no means ',would be neglected
of getting correct infortnotion.
After a few words from Mr. Ctrarzie and Mr. 11 yet ago',
Mr. T. WILSON said that no returns such as those then moved
fur could be of any value, treess there were a free trade in corn;
at present all the prices in foreign ports were regulated by the re-
strictions in this country.
111 r. W. WHIT:11011E (bought it right to gain all possible in.
formation as to the price of corn, before the suh)ect should again
come before the House. At the w.me time, he begged the Hon.
Member fur Norfolk (Mr. IVodahouse) not to lay too much stress
on the information to be derived through the Consuls, particularly
as to freights, which must entirely depend on the circumstance of
there being a trade; where there existed no trade it was impossi-
ble to ascertain what would be the expense of freight.
„Mr. WODEHOUOE and Mr. Moxux said a few words.
On the question being put—
Mr. Secretary CANNING hoped the Hon. Mover would con-
sent that the different Consuls should be required to make the re-
turns only as far as might be practicable. ( Hear, hear.) How, for
instance, could they say with accuracy the expense at ports when

no trade existed ? lie therefore moved that the words "as far as
may be practicable," be inserted in the motion.
Mr. WODEIIOUSE consented, and die motion as aitientled
was then agreed so.
BURBLE ACT.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL hoped for the indulgence of
the House for a few moments, whilst he stated his reasons for
wishing to repeal so much Of the Bubble Act as related to Joint
Stock Comranina tine reason was, that it had lately been des.
cussed in both ('ourti of Law and Equity, when it wzs agreed on
all hands to be perfectly unintelligible (hear, hear). When he
coupled with that circumstance that the Act alluded to con-
tained a clause sulyiecting to all t'.' penalties of premmiire
such persons as should violate its provisions, he thought he
had established sufficient grounds for its repeal. Another
ground for moving the repeal of that Act was, that those
establishments which have vested large capitals for the purpose of
effecting instirance upon lives and against fire. must, acconlingta
the interpretations of the Act. be considered illegal,. and It there.
fore became necessary to repeal it, as a protection to thou Compaeles
which had been associated nader the full confidence of there being
no law lb effect thCm. These were the grounds upon which he
meatit to move for the repeal of the Act. But it might be asked
whether it would not be better toolubstitete some particular enact-
ment applicable to the subject. instead of the total repeal. Hs
would frankly confess thit such was his original intention, but after
having considered the matter a little wore, he had taken up ea
opinion that it would be u‘eless, and inexpedient to adopt any other
measure than that which he proposed. Up to the 17th century.
during all the changes of a growing commercial power, there newer
had been any complaints of the evil which the Bubble Act wag
supposed to repress; and when in theyear 1720 that Act was pan*
which had been much misunderstood, and which actually was ia.
fended as a protection to that which it was generally thought to
prevent; it had remained on the Statute Book from th .t time until
the yeer.lBlo or 1812, without more thane single prosecution under
its provisions, and diet prosecution, he believed, by no meats well
understood ; it was hardly necessary, therefore, he thought, to adopt
any legislative measure in the place of claw which been been hither-
to practically considered as a mere dead letter., lie had therefore
considered, under till the circumstances, that it would be better to
move the simple repeal of the Act, leaving it, of course, in the
power of any Gentleman who thought proper, to introduce a Bill
for the regulation of any parts of the law which he might consider
neceesary. He begged lame t say.hele,.that it was not his irden- •
tion to interfere with any actions or suite at law, which-might have
been commenced before the repeal of the Act t and he intended,
therefore, to introdUce a clause excepting all such actions, because
he did not think it just to interfere with those proceedings which
had been taken under the supposed sanction of so Act el Parlia-
ment. Another measure he proposed to add was for the purpose or
increasing the facility of obtaining grants of charters. At present,
when a number of persons associated under a charter to perform
certain acts or carry on business as a Company, they were not liable
to the debts of that Company beyond the amount of the property
actually invested. There had been, therefore, at all times, con-
siderable reluctance on the pen of the Crown to grant charters, and
it had been the custom to bring in a Bill in the first place into Par-
liament, by which the Crown was enabled to gvsnt a charter, and
then to apply for the charter itself, thereby doubling the expense,
because there was first the cost of carrying the Bill thtough its
stages in Parliament, and then the cost of thechata itself. IChee
he proposed now was, to introduce a clause rendering individual
members. applying for charters, liable for the debts of the com-
pany to the full extent of their effects, and empowering the Crown
to grant charters according to its judgment of the propriety of the
particular cases. Thinking, therefore, upon the grounds he had
mentioned, that it was necessary to repeal the clauses of that Act,
mid grant the powers alluded to, he would move, " That it is ex-
pedient to repeal such pans of the Act of the 6th Oco. I. chap. 18,
Ili relates to Partnerships and joint-Stock Companies."
(201. DAVIES made Atone observations. but from the noise of
some persons leaving the gallery, we could not properly collect
their purport. We understood him to say, that from the manner
in which Lord Ellenborough had expounded the law of the Bubble
Act, and from the confirmation of his dicta by the finding of many
juries, there could be no such uncertainty or injustice as the
Learned Gentleman had described. He would not, however, refuse
his consent to the Bill be sought to introduce, although he thought
it probable it might meet with opposition, because it repealed an
Act which operated as some check to those Joiat—Stock Companies
which he thought were very injurious to the country.
Mr. IIUSKISSON said, the very ground the Honourable Gen-
tleman stated as an objection to the repeal of the Act, namely, the
great increase of Joint Stock-Companies, and their consequent in-
jury to the country, was one of the best arguments against hie own
assertion, that the law, as laid down by Lord Ellenborough, was
sufficiently clear and explicit with regard to those Companies, and
that it required no alteration. Lord Ellenborough might lay
down the law according to his conception of its bearing on the
particular case, but it was for the Jury to say whether the Cons.
pany in question was or was not likely to be prejudicial. Now he
would ask whether, in the present times. when a great variety of
Companies were in action and contemplation, it was right that
their interests or existence should depend 'mon the eloquence of
a Counsel or the feelings of a Jury y The Judge might be right ia
his construction of the law, but it was not fit that such important
interests should be constantly left to the feelings of juries. His
Honourable and Learned Friend wished to guard them ftom a want
of protection, to save their properties from the consequences of pro-
ceedings le equity ; and he thought the commercial world were
under very great obligations to his Learned Friend for the lamed
and enlightened view he had taken of the questioa.
[We regret to say that the continued noise from persons posplerg
in and out of the gallery, prevented us from hearing several of the
Right Honourable Gentleman's observational
Colonel DAVIES explained.
Mr. &DOUGLAS said, that numerous Companies in Scotland,
placed precisely in the same situation as those described by the
Learned Gentleman in England, had been going on for some time,
without knowing that they were incurring penalties under certain
statutory provisions. They had now however found out that their
proceedings were not legal, and he wished to know if any measure
was likely to be adopted with regard to them.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL replied, that he understood a
Bill bad been or wax about to be introduced in the other House, ap-
plicable to the cases alluded to by the Hon. Gentleman (the Mem-
ber for Dumfries).
Mr. DENMAN said, the law as it now stood left it first to the
jury to say whether they considered the Company beneficial, and
next to the Judge as to what construction be might think proper to
put upon the Act. The Hon. Gentleman alluded to the-case of a
Bread Company in Birmingham, we understood, which had been
tried before Lord Ellenboroi.eh, in which the jury found that it
was lima/nal. The Act had arisen from the love of occasional le-
gislation, which he DOW hoped was on the wane, and he had no ob.
jection to its repeal. He did not, however, feel himself prepared
to say that he would grant such powers to the Crown as the beamed
Gentleman proposed to give it; but, as there did not seem to be
any objection to the principle, be would reserve his objections to a
future occasion.

,After a few words from Mr. PELHAM and Mr. J leave
was given to bring in the Bill.
JUDGES' SALARIES.

. '

After some Conversation on the subject of precedence,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUEIt consented to go
into the Committee on the Judges' Salaries Bill, provided it WWI
understood that the second reading of the Grant to the Duke of
Cumberland should be taken immediately after. The Right
flonoutable Gentleman then said, that when he leo brought the
question of the salaries of Judges before the House, he had
stated it to be his intention to propose that the original Resolution
of 6,000/. a year to the Puisne Judges should be reduced 5001. for
the purpose of adding that sum to the retired allowance ; that
was now the first Resolution he had to propose • the next was
a sum of 15001. retired allowance to the Vice-Chancellor,
who had been, by some singular circumstance, altoge2ter over-
looked in the arrangement for the other Judges—that sum being
the same allowed to the Master of the Rolls and Chief Baron. He
meant also to move a small additional allowauce to the Lord Chief
Justice ; that Judge had now 3,000/.—it was his intention to move
that his retired allowance be 4,0004, the same sum as that allowed
to the Lord Chancellor of England. These were the three propo.
sitions he meant to submit to the House; there was, however, one
more—a resolution that the sums taken from the Judges by way of
fees should go to the Consolidated Fund. The attention of Go.
vernment had been directed for some time to the measurer which I
might be adopted for relieving the suitor", of the Court from the va-
rious costs which were incurred, and whether come of them mien
not with safety be abolished; he alluded particulely to the ex-
penses upon frivolous writs of error, which were productive of.
great delays in the prosecution of suits. It Would be a great ad-
vantage, he thought, if these were prevepted ; at all events the fees
were not to go again to increase the salaries of the Chief Justices.
He would now move the first resolution—that a sum of 5001. bo
granted as an additional retired allowance to the Puisne Judges.
Mr. J. WILLIAMS said h 4 had stated on a former evening
that he censidered it of the last importance to procure men of talent
at an efficient age for the office of Judge, and had therefore pro-
posed that the retired allowance should be increased. He had also
objected to any increase upon the present salary, because he believed
that neither the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Ex.
chequer) nor the Right Hon. Secretary for the Rome Department,
could point out a single case where a man of talent, in ths prime of
life, had ever refused to accept that situation with its present salary.
He conceived that there were two things most important ; first to
get good Judges if they could ; and next, to get them ofrthe Bench
before they were ready to tumble into their graves, and before their
defects and failures became obvious to all the world. These, he
knew, were the last to perceive their own inefficiency ; but he I
would make the retiring sum so large as to tempt them to go from
the Bench before they arrived at a state of dotage, and he thought
the Hon. Member fur Montrose (Mr. Hume) would pardon him
when he said that the money could not be ill applied whish went
to procure a succession of able Judges, by providing for the retreat
of those who became incompetent from any cause to the per-'
formance of the dunes of that office. lie therefore moved that
the words " five hundred pounds" be left out, and the words " nine
hundred pounds" insetted.
Mr. DENAIAN, while he thought no ease at all had been made
out for the increase of the salaries, thought it of importance that
the retiring pension should be liberal.
Mr. Secretary PEEL thought that his Right lion. Friend had,
according to the scale of pensions, allotted a very liberal and very
impartial allowance to the Pulsar Judger'. • The Chancellor, the
highest officer in the kingdom. had but 4.0001. a year. The Right
Hon. Gentleman then proceeded •to defend the Judges of the Ex.
chequer and Common Pleas against some alleged Imputations of
the Hon. Member for Lincoln, with regard to the proportions of
business, and instanced their attendance in the Lards and on pri.
vate Bills, as proofs of their being employed.
Mr. J. '4 ILIAAMS denied dist he ha..l ever imputed idleness

to the Judges of than) Courts. 11, hail only stated his opinion
of the great inequality of busine.s arising from the fashion
of the employment of two or three eminent men of th.t
Coun—the Attorney-General, the lion. Member for Winch:hoe.
(Mr. Broligl.ani), and the Member tiw Peterborough (Mr. Scar.
let). and hinted at the possibility of dividing that lousiness more
equally, by admitting others thau Sergeants to prise:ire in the
Common Pleas, and making some alteration with regard to
the solicitors of the Exchequer. He had also said that the bas.
sines, of .the Exchequer was comparatively small, hot he did not
mean to throw any imputation oat the characters of the Judges
who prettified there. He thought it right to state that the Chief
Justice of the Common Pleat had expressed himself satisfied with
the sum allotted to him, and told him (Mr. 'Williams) that he was
extremely glad the objectionable method of taking the salary from
fees and places was about to be abolished.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said, lie was quite satisfied the Learnt
Gentleman did not mean to impute any idleness to the Judges of
either Court.
Dr. LUSHINGTON condemned as injurious parsimony any
disposition to refuse the Judges a proper retiring allowance. H
had seen several melancholy instances of men remaining oo the
Bench !ong after they should have retired, from the inadequacy of
the sum allotted to them on retirement to support then) in the situ,.
tion of life they were accustomed to while on the Bench. If Hoc.
Gentlemen could but conceive the melancholy erects of one false
decision, the establishment of one false precedent, and the number
of years which must elapse before it was corrected, they wooly
see ,the propriety and necessity of providing a sum which
would secure Judges in the full enjoyment of their faculties.
It was of the last importance that there should be no additional
inducement held out fur persons who filled the office of Judges to
remain in it after their physical faculties were so exhausted as to
render them wholly imcompetent to the arduous and responsible
duties of their situation. He was convinced, however, that some
further regulatioo besides that of augmenting the retiring salary
was necessary to insure this object. A Puisne Judge having put.-
rued the profession of the law for a long series of years, and his
whole ambition leading him towards the highest ranks of that
profession, became to wedded to it by habit and inclination, that
without any reference to pecuniary advantages, he was led and in-
duced to remain in his situation as long as he possibly could. The
honours of the station, the cougenfality of its duties with their
former pmatiitsi all combined to induce then) to remain on 1.114
p Bench to a p nod when, fur the interests of the public, it would be
'Much better that their places were filled by some Ow mentel atej
physical powers, had not become so impaired by fgt. He, how-
ever. had no obj,etion to the proposed inc-ease of the retiring pen.skins, although he felt it was not a question with the Learned
Ju.lges of pounds, shilling*, and pence. Considering the subject
to be of great importance, he did most earrestly entreat the Right
Hon. Gentlemen (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) to consides
Whetlter the consequence of this augmentation would be that which
was 40 much desired, and which it was intended to produce.
.Mr. De.;IAIAN could not help thinking that it was a great
evil to have these discuss'ons continued. The only questions for
their consideration wee how might they beat secure to the
country none but good and efficient oihcers in the Courts of
Justice!' And whether the House could not adopt salt measures
as that none might be induced to stay in office after their ability
fully to discharge its duties was destroyed, in consequence of the
smallteoa of the retiring pensions ? There was an observation which
he would presume‘to melte on the practice of the Judges in giving
judgments in criminal cases. It was most prepoverous that the
Juth.,es should go into a private chamber, and discuss with them-
selves, without the intervention or pr.:settee of Counsel, questions
sometimes of great importance; and when they came into Court
one of them should take out a little book from his pocket, and pro:
mulgate a point as decided, observing to the. Counsel, that of course
they could not be aware of it, because is WIZ, time Judges, in their
retiring room, had laid down that rule, or had come to that decision.
He conceived this to be a very objectionable mode of proceeding ;
and that in all canes Opunscl should be present, or some means de-
vised for making the decisions of tile Judges known as soon as they
had been determinel upon.
The A TTORNEY.HENERAda admitted that the opinions
of the Judges in the cases alluded to by the lion. and Learned
Gentleman, were generally taken by their., meeting in a private
chamber; but if there was any doubt cnt ermined upon the question,
then it was always the lira:lice to have it argued by Counsel. Hs
was desirous to say one word on the question before the Com-
mutter. He had no hesitation in saying that he was prepared to
agree with the proposition of his lion. and Learned Friend ()gr.
J. Williams). It was to be recollected that the Judges were
b.und to serve fifteen years before they could be entitled to the
retiring pension ; and he thought that after a Judge had served so
long a period he ought cot to be placed in such a situation as either
to be obliged to make a great pecuniary sacrifice, or else to con-
tinue in his situation et a period of life when neither his physical
powers nor his inclinauoa admitted of his discharging its
duties in a manner which the interests of the country required.
But he (the Attorney-General) had known instances where the sacri-
fice between the salary anti the pension was so great as to induce
Judgesto remain on the bench when their personal infirmities in..
dined them to retire from it. It was now ;imposed to reduce the
salary, of the Puisne Judges from 6,0001- which had beemoriginally
agrcxl to, to 5.5001. Now, were the sum of 3001 thus intended to
be saved, to be laid out in the purchase of an annuity, to aecueru.
late during the 15 years that the Judge should continue in office, it
would produce more than the sum now proposed to be added to the
retiring pension. Therefore, if the Committee were to make tl,p
pension 3,5001. they would do less in the way of expense than :f
the sum of 6,0001. had been agreed to as originally proposed. He
threw out these hints fir the consideration of his Right lion. Friend
(the Chancellor of the Exchequer), and hoped they might meet his
approbation.
111 J. P. GRANT spoke in support of the amendment.
Dlr. WHITSIORE concurred in the opinion, that the retiring
?vision should be 3,509/. a year, and he was sure that great gocd
would accrue to the country by its adoption.
Mr. PEEL said, that as it appeared to be the very general MKS
of the House that the retiring salary should be 9,500/. instead of
the sum he had proposed, he must say that he could see no real ob-
jection to accede to the opinion of the Committee, although he had
no wish to make the salaries of the Judges any way immodesate.
He thought the House would accept what had past as a proof of this,
In proposing the sum menUoned in the Resolution, it was done
without any view other than that of the public interest. He de-
claret!, upon his honour, that he had never opened his lips to any
Judge upon the subject. A feeling of delicacy to a person filling
his situation would naturally prevent his going into the merits of
the question so fully as it might admit of.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought himself
perfectly at liberty to accede to what seemed to him to be the gene.
ral sense of the House ; but he wished to apprise them that the
question was not quite so simple as it might at first appear. There
was the cane of the Slaster of the Rolls, the Vice-Chancellor, and
the Chief Baron ; he considered there ought to be a proportiousits
increase made to their retiring salaries. It would be most con-
sistent in principle so to act. There could not be but one object
with any one in a measure of this nature. and that was to secure to
the country that the Judges should not remain in office after their
physical powers to sustain its arduous duties were gone. With
regard to the addition to be made to the retiring salaries of the
Master of the Rolls, the Vice-Chancellor, and the Chief Baron,
although he would not require a proportionate increase, yet they
should have something above the level of the Puisne Judges, so as to
maintain that etiolation of rank which was necessary to exist, lie
thought 3,750/. would be as fair a proportion as could be named.
Ile should therefore propose an amendment in the next Resolution,
to have that aunt inserted instead of the sum at present proposed.
After a few words front Mr. CAOKER, the amendment was put,
thg the addition to the sum originally pro,•,osed should be t,OOl.
hatted of 5001., making the retiring salary of the Puisne Judges
3,5001. a year. which was agreed to.
Upon the Resolution, that the retiring pension to the Master of
the Rolls, the (Vice-ChaoceLlor, and the Chief Baron, aLould be
3,750/. being put—

Mr. HI:3IE observed, that the Master of the }tolls ought to be
placed on the same footing with the Puisne Judges, and the Vice-
Chancellor, In regard to the increase proposed to be made to his re-
tiring salary. The Committee had just taken 501.11. from the
salaries of the two latter, whereas the salary to the .faster of the
Rolls had not been reduced. Besides it did not appear that the
Master of the Rolls was bound to serve for the period of fifteen
years before he should be entitled to his retirirg pension, and as it
was possible that he might he advanced to the Peerage long before
that time arrived, he considered there should be some provison
made to prevent hint from possessing this undue advantage over the
eitharJ
Mr. PEEL said, that on referving to the Act ft arrested that a
provision was made to meet the Hon. Gentleman's objection ; for it
was provided that the retiring pension to the Abutter of the Rolls
should not take place until after that Judge should have served
fifteen years.
Mr. 11U3IE wished to know whether it was the intention of the
Right Honourable Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
to establish the system that all the deities of all officers in d e
Courts of King's Bench and Common Pleas shmild be performed
in person, or whether they were still to be allowed to be done be
deputy. If that was not the intention of the Right Ilonourablo
Gentleman, he (Mr. Hume) thought it oucht to be; for he ter.-
cited it was the most necessary reform that could possibly take
place. Indeed he would vote any sum for the purpose of pur-
chasing up all those 'offices, and instituting this most essential
regulation. -

The CH.INCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that by the
two Bills which he ihould have the honour to bring ain, in punt:-
ance of the Resolutions. it would be made that the performance ot.
the duties of all the offices which were in the gift (Witte too Chief
Justices sholild be
_performed in person, and the salaries hurl
with reference to the nsture of the duties to be performed. But
they had no right to make this regulation at present with several
of them, because tbey were held by patent ; but when they should
fall; n by the expiring of the patents, they these regulations would
ppy to all.

Mr. lIUME mid nothing was more likely to do good to th
public than such a system, and it it was good to do so wilt regar.l
to the Courts of King's Bet ch and Common Pleas, he thought It
would be much more so in the Court of r.xclu tiler. He therefor,
hoped those obnoxious offices which he spoke of th: other n
would be entirely done away with. He regretted the absence of
the Member for Code Castle, who was Chairman of the Criminate,
of Inquiry into the state of the Courts, as he lived to have his rasp-
port to a measure so necessary. The sinecures which existed in the
Court of Chancery ought not to exist another tiny.
The Resolution was then agreed to.
The Home then resumed, and the Report cr the Committee gal
ordered to be broeght up to-mistrou.

wow
.........__.

opinion
fasdioa

of that
tohanti.
Ir. Scar.
ea more
e in the
,bard to
the ha-
did not
Judos'
he Chief
heti with
it he was
cry hoot
laserteek
udges of

on] nay
ice. He
r on *La
.quary of
:he situa.
If Hoc.
one faints
e number
et' until
n which
faculties.
widitional .1
Judges to
rd as to
rsponsihist
hst 11011341
ng salary
ring put.
, and his
is or that
tion, that
d and in-
uld. The
with their
lain on tit 3
womdd
mental nati
He, how-

quing pen-
Learned

the subject
the Right
to comities
that which

wit ft part
uottiont for
are to tit*
Courts of

measurre

heir ability
'enc. of ib.
• • • •

,ation which

es in giving
nue twit thw
with then.

questions
into Court
et, and pro:
lid of course
ges, in their
hat decision.
proceeding ;
IC means de-
tain as they

the opinions
and Lemuel
in a priests
the question.
;auntie]. Hs
ore the Com-

----
s prepared to
Friend (sr.
Judges were
rilltled to cte
had served so
anon sa eithes
e else to con_
his physical
&charging. its
itty reqtered.
here the sacri-
st M to induce
infirmities in-
to reduce the
xereoriginally
us intended to
icy, to ACCUILU.
tue in office, it
ie added to the
re to make dye-
expense than if
proposed. He
ht lion. Friend
might Meet his
MOIL

hat the retiring
hat great good
7 general semis
5001. instead of
see no real ob-
lthough he had'
sy immodesate.
s a proof of this.
ion, it was done
t erest . He de-
his lips to any
a person tilling
tto the merits of

thought himself
to be the ger c-
se them that this
t appear. Them
•Chancellor, and

proportiossts
ild be most con-
e one objtet
MM to Stair! to
I office after their
ere gone. With
ig salaries of the
he Chief Baron,
Judges, yet they
so as us
try to exist. H.
could be named. '
next Res4.lution,
intent proposed.

endment w:u put,
cd should be taw/.
he Pui►ne Judges

n to the Muter of
Baron, sl,ookt be

Rolls ought to be
es, and the Vice-
be made to his re-

from the

the M:oter of she
K appear that the
ie period of fifteen
pension, and u it
'eersge long before
be sonic provison
advantage um the

it appeared that a
'fi objection t for it
lamer of the Rolls
iould have teased

be intention of the
>f the Exchequer)
all officers in tl
could be performed
all to be done by
Hight Honourable
io be ; for he eor..
notdd possibly take
he purpose. of pay-
this most essential

said that by.tho
inns .in, iu purso-
the performance of
ift of .the two Chief
it the salaries tiled
'e performed. But
resent with several
t when they mould
e regulations would

to do good in the
o do so wrh regarl
'lea+, he thought it
q wr. lie therefor,:
of the other o &-
led the absence or
of the l'oentr.itte:
ped to have his sup-
wt. di exilted in the
ty.

the Committee was