The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1826-03-04 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS, FRIDAY, MARcu 3.

PENITENTIARY AT MILBANK.
Mr. Hall brought up a Report from the Committee of the Peni-
tentiary at Milbank.--Ordered to be printed.
LIVERPOOL AND MANCHESTER RAILROAD.
General GASCOYNE presented a petition from the Portugal
sad &mill merchants of Liverpool, in favour of the Manchester and
Liverpool Railroad ; and similar petitions from the inhabitants at
large, and from the West IndiaMerchants' Association of the same
place.
LIVERPOOL AND BIRMINGHAM CANAL.
Sir G. CHET tr YND presented tour separate petitions from
the Rev. James Tomkinsou, Mr. Skerrot, and others, praying to
be heard against the preamble of the Liverpool and Birmingham
Canal Bill. _

On the presentation of this petition,
The SPEAKER said that he feared what he had pointed out as
the practice relative to the prayer of such petitions as that before
the House had not been clearly understood. lie did not say that
petitioners might not be heard against the preamble of a private
Bill, if it contained any statement of facts in which the interests of
the petitioners were concerned, but that they could not be heard
against the principle of the Bill. if the petition was referred to the
Committee, with directions to inquire into the truth of any allege-
Aiwa stated in the Bill, the Committee had no discretion, but must
hear the facts. They had a right to call the petitioners to give evi-
dence as to those facts, as fully and as often as they pleased ; but
the petitioners had no right to claim being heard relative to any
part of the Bill in which they had not an interest, and unless it
had been made compulsory upon the Committee to enter into their
examination by the express directions of the House.
General OAKOYNE said that great inconvenience arose from
petitioners belig heard in such instances. Much time was con.
sullied in
getting through the details of such evidence, and there
were many cases in which there was delay of several ays to pro-
cure evidence to disprove the facts which had been previously
brought under the consideration of the Committee ; and when the
great expense incurred in forwarding those petitions was taken
into account, be thought it would be admitted that the practice
yes unadeisable, and attended with much inconvenience.
The SPEAKER said that unless the petitioners had an interest
in the facts contained in the preamble, they bad no right to be
heard before the Committee. The practice in that view was per-
fectly analogous to that observed with respect to the clauses of a
Bill, against which the petitioners could not be heard unless they
i had an interest irfthetr.
Mr. S. WORTLEY having acquieseed in the observations of
the Speaker, and expressed his approbation of hie view of the
practiee, the petition was referred to a Committee.
DUTY OF MEMBERS TO PRESENT PRIVATE BILLS.
Mr. S. WORTLEY, on presenting the Donegan Iliad Bill,
said that though he did not agree in the exwftws7 of the Bill
he roomed the petition. The parties interne!,spin his stating
his obleedons, said that they oansidersilit his essay to present the
whatever might be bis bowman es to its merits.
be ailL we Wielder it sal ere)
ems
thi the attention or tbe
Hesse, yet be bed pawed It, but abeeld be sled se behefrom

petitioners, ne s
Friend the Member for Wareham (Mr. Caleraft), that the rep-
lotion had acted retrospectively with reference to Mr. Shillibeur,
for in answer to a question from the Paymaster of 31arines in the
year lfta, he had stated that he was then an assistant curate int
holy orders; and he had fully considered himself entitled to take
holy orders under the Act of 56 Geo. 3, chap. 60. The Ho u.
Gentleman said, upon the merits of the case, he trusted the Ad.
miralty would place the petitioners upon the same footing with the
army, which he considered would be doing only an act of justice.
Sir G. CLERK said that nothing could- induce the Admiralty to
do an act of hardship but a sense of public justice. He could not
at all agree with the opinion expressed by the Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. CaWaft) that the marines were part of the army, and hot of
the navy, seeing that they were wholly tinder the direction of the
Admiralty. The regulation which deprived The petitioners of their
half-pay was a general one, and though it was said to be extremely
hard that they should be struck off the half-pay list, it would hare
been an act of injustice to others to have kept them on. With re.
specs to the observation of the Hon. Member for Taunton (,Jr.
Warre), there had several discussions taken place on the sub-
ject when the Army and Navy Estimates for former years were bv
tore the House. In July, 18'23, when the account was required
from all officers, as to their age and other particulars, in order that
the value of the annuity for their lives might be calculated, one of
the petitioners had stated that he was on .the point of taking holy
orders, and therefore he had not taken orders at that time. Bete.
was an obvious intention of keeping the Admiralty in ignorance o:
the fact of taking holy orders by one individual, which only trans.
Tired from the circumstance of a letter addressed by him to the
Paymaster of Marines being opened by. mistake at the Admiralty.
If the House should think an act of injustice had been done, or
that a case of individual hardship had been made out, it of course
remained with the House to afford such measures for relief as
seemed proper under the circumstances of the case.
Sir C. COLE said that he had advocated the cause of one of the
petitioners on a former night, and he was bound to say that Mr.
Shillibear considered, when he went on permanent half.pay, that
he was not to be called on again for active service. Ile recollected
that the lion. Member for Liverpool ((den Gascoyne) introduced
a measure for the increase of half-pay to subaltern officers, and
he could not but consider it peculiarly hard that, having retired on
permanent half-pay and taken holy orders, that half-pay should
he taken away, small in amount it was true, not exceed-
ing tiOL a year, but a sum to be of sufficient consequence when th..!
individual might have entered into domestic arrangements in fall
supposition that it would be continued to him. Alr.Shillibeat was
an inhabitant of the county which he (Sir C. Cole) had the honour
to represent, and he knew him to be a highly deserving person ; oe
had met with a severe injury in consequence of doing a meritorious
act, which he was sure would be fully appreciated by the Gall:tit:
Admiral (Sir G. Cockburn), which incapacitated him from further
service. He therefore trusted his case would be reconsidered Loy
the Admiralty.
Sir F. BLAKE supported the petition.
Sir C. LONG said that officers of Marines were certainly not a
part of the army. The object of the regulations which had lawn
alluded to were to put both.services as far as possible on the same
footing. It was found that there were many officers of the army
in holy orders receiving half-pay. A regulation had been come to
in consequence, that in future no officer in the army should be al-
lowed to take holy orders, and that those that had taken them
previously to the regulation should sell their commissions.
Sir. CALCRAir said that after the very candid manner in
which the Lords of the Admiralty had met the question, he should
say no mote on the subject; and he should leave the matter in their
hands, hoping something would be done by them for the pett-
tioners. Ordered to lie on the table.

CORN LAWS.
Mr. CI TRTEIS presented • petition from the owner+ and ce-u-
--piers of land in the neighbourhood of Northiam, against any al-
teration in the Corn Laws.
On the motion that the petition should be brought up,
Lord MILTON said that he would take leave to call the atter-
tioa or the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Curteis) to a motion of hi+ tfo-
nourable Friend (Mr. Home) which stood for that evening. och
was to oppose the motion for the Speaker's leaving the Chair AM
the Ordnance Estimates, and he called upon him to give bis vont
in favour of that motion, as the best means of effecting the object
he had in view.
Mr. CUREN said that he would take that opPortoonl of et-
Mr.
resting his objection to the statements made. that °weird- h-bl4_
tss
weridies in
were theotthaily
compersonLas
wwtoswehiicthitehreeacents would be herersttkr ct by
Tstriian ta.,
were many other interests which would be alreotad
their*
The petition was thanmsbmogifags Etre" to OM"'
Lied 3. RUSSELL moved the but radio( of a MR tor the

b( tier prevention of bribery and corruption at clectiens.—To b
tad a second tint on Thurulay.
THE CURRENCY. . .

Mr. HUNIE presented a petition from the magistrates and in.
bsMtsata of Culutes against any alteration in the currency of Scot-
land. There never was a question. maid the Hum 3lerober, agi-
tated in that House, in which there exited such a unanimity of
opinion ; there was not cne who agreed with the Chancellor of the
Exchequer. While the people were satisfied with the currency, it
ought not to be interfered with.

CHELSEA HOSPIT.IL.
Sir C. LONG moved the that reading of .1 C li to amend and
.conaolitiate the Ante relating to Chelsea Hospital.—To be read a
/mod time on Monday.
I.OOTWAYS.
Mr. Alderman WOOD presented a petition from an individual
for whom, he said, he had before done the same office. The peti-
tioner complained of the public inconvenience arising front the want
of footways, and prayed to call the attention of the House to the
defects of the Inelosure Act, which ought to contain provisibmt for
their construction.
Lord MILTON thought this a matter worthy of consideration.
The Inelosure Act had causal much inconvenience, by de.
pricing the people of the footpaths, and they ought to be made
subservient to the public accommodation.
, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that it was
impossible nut to admit that, when resits were to he made or
mended be Act of Parliament. the convenience of foot passengers
ought to he taken into consideration ; their accommodatim deserved
to be taken into account, as well as of -those whit travelled in theft
carriages. He believed there was some provision of that sort in the
Turnpike Acts, and if it could be extended to the cross-roads he
would be glad.
Lord 1111. CON said, any one who had occasion to travel the
rem north roads as often as he had, and who saw the state of the
footways, would hardly believe in the existence of such a pro-
vision.

reasonable, said nothing about it ; but he now thought that increase
most improper. Ve'ith respect to the tininsel to the Colonial Depart-
ment (3lr. Stephen). whose absence retarded the business. he
believed that the colonists regarded that individual as their deter-
mined enemy. Ile would appeal, for the truth of th it
fact, to all who had any dealing* with the colonies, and
yet every thing in that department was left to Mr. Stephen.
From oil the accounts which he had heard respecting the renduct
of that'individusl, and the sentiments of the people who Teeniest in
the West Indies, he (Mr. Brno did not entertain the slightest
doubt that-his professional appointment and continuance was di.
reedy opposed to the wishes of the colonies. 'However. as there
was important business pending for the consideretion of the !lease,
he had no objection to let the question rest, in order that the ileum
might proceed to the discussion of those matters to which he ad-
verted.
Mr. W. HORTON felt obliged to the llonotirable Gentlemen
opposite.(Mr. Hume) fer the concession he had made. Yet lie was
anxious In allude briefly to tire objeettens istitch had been urged
against the individual who had tall..n tinder cetntire. 11.3% it a fair
principle to he laid down, that necatiee n tynn might indulge in
particular feelings on certain subjects, he should theretore be sup.
pored or suspected to allow !liege sentiments to operate to the
disparagement of his public duty ? lie could state, however, for
the satisfaction of the llon. Aleoitfer ooposite. that with respect to
the transactions in the West Indies. the gentleman who hat: been
, reproached had newer enneitited with his t Cher. Ae to the eunti.
• dente which he (Mr. W. Horton) reposes! in the shilities and Cite-
! grity of the person whose name had been intrnilitced to their novice.
I be telt himself hound in duty, and at the same trite gratified, to
slate that he would with perfect satisfaction consult trial gentleman
if any occasion should arise to require advice for the affairs of the
colonies. As it was his province to defend the affairs and to protect
I toe interest of the attrition he felt no hesitation in making the
avowal. lie wished, however, to cornet whit appeared to be a
mistaken impression on the mind of sonic gentlemen with respect
to the Orders in Gouneil. Now 3lr. Stephen had nothing to do
with the legislative department of the colonic-4. Ilk, services were
exciesively devoted to the executive arrangements. Therein! not
nimear to he any rational grounds for the imptitations which bad
been made, for what reason was thole in blaming she son because
his father had written a pamphlet which did not accord with the
disposition of hie opponents % lie did net think that such a cause
of accusation was at all sufficient to Impugn the conduct or the
principles of the son.
Dlr. F. BUXTON seemed the lion. Member that if he meant
to state or to insinuate that al r. Stephen had held conorunication
with persons on that (the Opposition) 'de!e of the Hooy, the opinion
was erroneous. On the contrary. lie (Mr. dins always found '
the colleague of Dlr. Stephen niece communicative when he had
occaeon to call at their (dike. Ile had lately taken a friend on
matte's of business to whit Alr. Stephen, and some allusions hay.
ing been made to the conduct of the son, the father expressed his
iemorana: of the occurrence.
Pte. 114 31 E explained, and the petition was ordered to be printed.
SLAVE IS)CI'MENTS.
Mr. BROUGIIA3I moved that an address be presented to his
Majesty by such Members of the House its were of the Privy
Council, praying foe a variety off papers with respect to what Acts
had been passed to promote religion among the slaves, distinguish-
irg the sections, &a.; and elm such as are now beeire his Majesty
in Council; the tills of ali Aces reseed since 11115. regarding the
manumission of slaves; and the !titles of ell Arts passed since
!lay, 1823, for the purpose ot preventing slaves front tinkling in.
Recourse with their relations; and the titlee of such Acta as bad
been mimed since that same period (May, Ilk") fur thepurpoae of
enforcing other restrictions.
'Flee motion having bee, agreed to.
Mr. BR()Ulill A Al gave nstice that he world, on the 20th of
April, move for the amelioration of the condition of the slaves in
the colouiev.
ARMY ESTIMATES
On the question that the House resolve itself into a Committee,
l'olonel DAVIES rose, and said that he intended to nuances an
amendment " for a Select Committee to examine into the military
expenditure of the country." Ile should however agree to a vote
foe a quarter of a year's expenditure, in order to give time. The
lion. and Hallam Colonel then pmcceded to contrast the expendi-
sure of France and England. and also of Anierrea and England.
Ile asserted that the waste of money in the establishments of this
country was most extravegant, and that there was great room and
indispensable necessity for retrenchment. The Hon. and Gallant
Colonel was not diminetly heard in the gallery. in consequence of
the noise occasioned by the renewal of stringers from one place to
another. At )lie conclusion of has speech the lion. and Gallant
Colonel moved the above amendment.
Lord PA GM ELSTON did not perceive the necessity of subetl-
teeing one Committee for another. The wand course of Parlia-
mentary proceeding was :o discuss the particflars of the army estl.
mates in a Committee of Supply. Ile could not understand why a
deviation from the ordinary practice was required at present, as
there would be the same facility affindeti by the regular as by the
Select Committee, for objecting to or concurring with the details.
He should therefore hope to he excused from going further into
the subject, and would vote against the adoption of the amend-
ment.
Mr. PELFIA3I made some observations, which were entirely
inaudible in the gallery.
The amendment eras then put and negatived ; and the original
motion being carried, the House resolved itself into a Committee.
Lord PALMERSTON then rose for the purpose of proposing
the Army Estimates, but from the noise-in the Ileum we could
not eatch his lino sentence. When we did hear him, he proceeded
as follows ---The lion. Member for Worcester (Colonel Devlin)
had intimated that die Estimates of the present year. in his opinion,
must occasion great altercation, inconsequence of the magnitude of
their amount ; whereas, in point of fact, they were almost precisely
the name as those of last year. There was, it was true, an Increase
of 390 men at Newfoundland ; but they were paid by the colony
itself, and not from the Treasury of this country. The Estimates
for the present year exceeded those of last year by tho sum of
12I;,0001. This increase was partially to be attributed tothe change of
the currency in Ireland, and partly to the circumstance, that the aug.
mentation of the army last year took place in April, and consequently
the Estimate was calculated only for the remainder of the year,
whereas at present it was, as a matter of course, to be taken for
the whole year. It was an those two circumstances that the increase
was almost entirely to be attributed. In the first class of Estimates,
in which were comprised the land forces, the staff; and the medical
department, there was an increase of 1414.01)0'. Of this increase,
111,0001. was to be attributed to the land forces ; 2,0001. to the
staff; and the remainder to the medical sena' u; ~n the coast of
Africa, with the exception of 2.0001. which was to be placed to the
account ot the change of currency in Ireland. A reduction had
taken place in Ireland. In the public departments there was a
diminution of 9171. which was principally in the \Vier Office.
Great progress had also been made in the settlement of the arrears
of accounts, sod in the arrear department a considerable indite
tion had been made up to the 21th of December, and he could at.
sure the House, that in all the departments under his control,
there should be as large reductions as were consistent with the due
execution of the services remtired by the country. In the medical
department there had been a reduction of 917/. in consequence of
the conversion of the military infirmary into an Lospital. He
1 next came to the volunteer department, in which there was
an augmentation to the amount of 3,Qliil. The actual num-
bent embodied were diminished by Pitt) men, but the saving
thereby occasioned was set oft' by the contingent allowances
to the officers. The allowances hitherto made to the officers
were totally inadequate to their expenses. The allowance to
the officers of the landed forces was :is. per day, but as they
were to be on duty only for a few days it would be impossible
for th nit to make such arrangements as would enable them to con-
fine theft expenditure to that sum, and therefore it was proposed to
increase it to the amount of 7s. tee day. The increase so contem.
plated would amount to the sum he had alrendv stated-11,0Gr1.
The second class of estimates he would not go into, but in the
third class there was an increase to the amount of 23.7311. Part of
this increase was to be attributed to the change of the currency in
Ireland. The expense of the military college was the same PIS the
estimate of last year. In the full pay department, including ea-
st:akin, there had been a diminution to the extent of Vale!. In
the half-pay department there had been a diminution to the amount
fret 0,4141.; and in the foreign half-pay a decrease also of 3,1141.
In Chelsea, in the department of out-pensioners, there was an in-
crease to the amount of 4.6.53/., and that of the in-pensioners to the
extent of 3,31 W. In the contpassionfte list also there had been an
increase of 4,100/. The military asylum was the same as last
year, but in the widows pensions there had been an increase of
6,11701. The change of currency in Ireland had canned an increase
of MM. and In the superanunted annuities there ass an increase of
1,759/. In the veteran battalions there was a diminution, as compared
with last year, to the extent of 3 11511/. Having noticed those items
in which the moat material difinrences existed, he should emceed
to generalize the numbers en WVII RS the charges of their mainte-
nance. Last year the number of rank and tile was 714345; this
year the bomber was 76,572, being an increase of 227 rank and file.
The expenditure of last year amounted to 6,47i,:i47/., while that
or the present year amounted to 6,1102,133/e leaving an excess for
the present year of Itilieined., part of which, as he bad already stat-
ed, WAS to be attributed to the change in the currency of Ireland.
With respect to the observation of the lion. Member for %Voices.
ter (Col. Davis) as to the increase of the army, lie (Lord Palmer.
sum) could only soy that it had been increased with the concerrence
of that House, and even with the concurrence of the Hon. Gentle-'
man himself, who yet thought proper to tandem that increase as
improper and injudicious. The lest however was,. that the may
criteritm by which a judgment could be formed as to the necessity
of an increased military establishment, was to be fund in the
exigencies of the country, as they existed at the time of the in-
crease, and not by comparienn with its magnitude at any former
petted of our history. That increase took place after a full canal.
deration of its necessity in consequence of the stare of our colonial
garrisons, and the acknowledged pmpriety of keeping up rn
available reserve in ease of any suition emergency. The Hun.
Member had also stated, that even admitting that the colonial
regiments were absolutely necessary, yet the continual change was
expensive, and might be emitted. But he would ask him if officers,
holding a commiction in the general service of the country would
be likely to submit to perpetual banishment. Itnides, in that
case each regiment would be locked up in the garrison to which it
was sent, and would soon become not only inferior in point of
discipline to what they are at present, but they would cease to be
available even for the defence of the colony to which they were
attached. The eonsts"t removal and interchange of regi.
menu brought each slternately under the inspection of the mill.
Carr authorities at home, and thus kept the army in that high
state of military ',erection in which it was certainly desirable
to preserve it. (Ilea., hear.) On the contrary, if they were to
be kept continually in garrienn upon a foreign station, thej could
oon•fitil to relax in discipline, and in short become U hart corps.
The lion. Member °Okla rely upor it that the Oen vas a bad

ABOLITION OF NEGRO SL.I VERY.
Mr. ALLEN presented a petition front the inhabitants of 31i1.
ford. South Wales. praying for an amelioration in the condition of
negro slaves, and that the House would fix a period to the system
ce starer; s also for a repeal of the bounties on West India sugar.
Mr. BARING presented a petition from the town of Taunteti, in
'Somersetshire. praying for the abolition of slavery ; and also a sing.
Mr petition from the town of Cerriygton.
Similar petition. were also resigned from Greenwich and rPorge.
when, by Me, Hon, wood ; from Uxbridge, by Mr. Byng ; ftont
Lincoln, by Mr. Smith ; front Focklinglon, by Sir ;
from Chertser, by 3h. Denison ; front Bath and Wells. by 310.
Dickinson; from Rochester, by Mr. Hemel ; and from Lyming.
ton. by Mr. Grenfell.
Mr F. BUXTON presented ten petitions to the same effe.et ;
among others, from the Rector and Churchwardens of Deptford,
Seim 3lonmouth. Gillingham, Rom, North and South Coiling.
ham, Clinthein. and Stroud.
Mr. F. BUXTON moved for a return of all communications
made to his Majesty's Government from the islands of Bourbon
and the Mauritius relative to the slave trade; and also far a re.
turn of the amount of the slave population in those islands.
Mr. DENMAN, presented a petition from Nottingham. signed
by seven thousand' persons, praying for the abolition of negro
slavery.
Mr. BROUGHA 31 rose to Inquire whether there were any do.
evened* to authenticate what had been said by a Right Honourable
Gentleman Cilr. Canning). on a former evening, relative to the
odeption of the Orders in Council by the West Indian Colonica?
lie could not find any proof of their acquiescence in the Colonial
Act. which were lyine on the table.
3lr. W. HORTON hoped that the House would not belies e that
eltlfr bed been any intention to deceive.
Re. BROUGHAM said that he did not mean to cast any int.
tastation : but he thought that statement contained a fallacy, and
Fe would proceed to show the discrepancies which existed between
it and the papers on the table. The House would recollect what
the Right Honourable Gentleman said with respect to manuniis.
s'on, but he could not tir.d that this had been the subject of a legis-
lative measure in the Colonies. Again, as regarded the disability
of slave evidence, the Right Honourable Gentleman had said that
ot"tweivc colonies (hut he ought to have said thirteen, for, including
!fondues% and the Cape of Good Hope, we had in atl twenty slave
e-lanie.„ of which thirteen had legislative assemblies) seven had
taken measures to secure to the slaves the right of giving evidence.
Now he did not know what might have taken plate since those
paper% had been prepared, but, Troup an extended examination and
attention to the colonial jimmies down to the 22d of last No.':
ember, he could find only three in which any such measure',
had been adopted ; those were Tobago. Barbadoes, and Dominica,
whose regulations of that kind had been passed some years ago,
and consequently not in pursuance of the late Order in Council,
bet in Tobago this right of giving evidence was confined to one
case; that was the case of a slave murdered by a white man,
when none but slaves were present. and when two slaves of
unimpeachable character concurred in their testimony. This
mode of narrowing the rights of the slaves was in its nature
inadmissible, and contrary to policy and humanity. In Barbadoes
',lave evidence was admitted by an Act of the 'Legislature, but
not as the Order of Council prescribed. The ground of a slave's
almimibility to give evidence ought not to be his religious per-
suaeion. The Order of Council very. properly said that the slave's
ernificate might come from any minister of religion, hut in Bar.
!ethics it was confined to the minister of the regular church.
Thie Act, as had been stated by his Hon. Friend the Member
for Hull, had been disallowed by his Majesty's Government; but
so long as the colonists might adopt at will punishments, penalties,
and harsh treatment, it would be the greatest mockery possible
to put these Acts on their records, while coupled with such treat.
meet as would make them nugatory. Ile thus found that only
two colonies, via Tobago and Barbadoce, had adopted the mea-
sures recommended, but under such regulations as deprived them
of their efficacy. The Right Hon. Gentleman had also said that
eight colonies had provided for the religious instruction of the
slaves. Now he could not tell !lOW they had done it ; it could not
be by providing new ministers of religion. Ile knew that they
had elmaged either the market or the slaves' day from Sunday
to Thursday, bat this regulation was made in that Act which
had since been disallowed by his Majesty's Government. But he
thought there was a detect in the Order of Cetincil respecting the
tonsures for securing the property of slaves and Melt manumission.
In I)emerara this letter had not been attended to ; in Trinidad
there was an order in which lie believed all the colonies agreed:
the slaves were prohibited hom cultivating the staple Brides of
ovionial produce, and were thus effectually precluded from the
exercise of their industry, by which alone they could hope to
perchese their freedom. As to the separation of die families
of slates, very partial measures had been taken to prevent it.
The mother indeed could not be separated from her child, but
it was only under such limitations that the Order in Council had
been adopted. With respect to punishment in general, he believed
ro new law had been enacted; and with respect to modifiration
of punishment, panic-uteri), in the case of iconic!, be believed
Ihat none of the colonies, with the exception of St. Vincent's, had
paid any attention to the subject. This modification consisted in
reducing the ordinary punishment of 39 to 20 lashes. Thus the
lion. Gentleman hail found 40 or 60 instances of compliance on
the pert of the colonies, while he was only able to find from 7 to 9
lie would bring to an hone the points contested between the
Right Hon. Gentleman and himself; he would, in short, move
for a return of all the Acts of the Colonial legislature, distinguish-
ing the colonies, and arranged under the several heads of re-
lit/lints Instruction, evidence, &c. according to the Order in
Council; stating_ also whether those Acts had been allowed or
were under consideration. This return to include pipets and do.
cssmenta of all kinds since the 22c1 of November last. By re-
(erring to this return Gentlemen might see at once what hail been
done. and what had been omitted under each head. if a course of
pardel legislation were adopted, instead of ameliorating the con-
eition of the slaves, they would make It worse. It remained,
therefore. as appeared from the papers before the house, that much
mote should be done.
Mr. W. HORTON begged to explain that the responsibility of
thole statements rested wholly with the Colpnial Department. With
respect to the act of the Barbadoes legislature, which the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman had said was disallowed. he begged 'leave to
assure him of ele contrary. That Aet had nerer beenelisallowed.
lie was perfectly willing that the all statements should be laid on the
table so as to bring she colonies into one point of view ; hut with re.
twit to any inaccuracy that might occur in the Colonial Department,
Le beeped leave to say that that department was completely over.
powered with business arising out of the exertion% to aniellimate the
condition of the slaves. They had also wanted for some days the
assistance of their Counsel, who was absent from Indisposition ;
and here he woull take the opportunity of declaring that the parsi-
mom, dictated by the Hon. opportunity
fur Mobtrose was so strict
that the Colonial Department had not the requisite number of clerks;
some of the clerks of that department were sometimes employed
ten hours s day; that was • degree of economy not tolerated in
private life, and the consequence of It was, that in case of anr in-
ettspolition, as of the Counsel for that department, public business
was at a stand. In a few days his Right Hon. Friend would lay
below, the ilouee his eorrespondencoevith the colonies. He would
not therefore, at present, follow the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
througn all his comments ; but he would say that he thought the
policy court of Demerara deserved the greatest approbation for the
Manner in which they had adopted the regulations recommended to
than. Their merit would be better appreciated, when we consider
now hard it is to change opinions at home. As to the peculiar pro.
visions which the llonourable and Learned Gentleman said were
made with a view to frustrata the schemes of manumission, he
ould not now proceed to explain them. lie would not forestall
the information contained in the correspondence about to be laid
on the table, which would clearly show that the statements of his
Right Hun. Friend were perteely correct.
Mr. BROUGHAM asked to what Colonies those orders had
applied.
Mr. W. HORTON—To Trinidad, Denertra, and St. Lucia;
but the lion. and learned Gentleman ought to be 'were of ;he
impossibility of applying the same torms of law to ill the colo-
nic.. There was a necessity of giiing them cousideratinn, but he
believed in a fortnight's time they would be law in the Cape of
Good Hope and St. Lucia.
Mr. BROUGHAM wished to know whether the Iron. Gentle-
man meant that the law ehonld be sent out in a hirtnlght ?
Mr, W. HORTON—Our correspondence and nosimentems
have been carried so far that we are now ill a condition to make it

Mw.
Mr. W. SMITH said that it was his intimtion to bring forward
question respecting Deinetant ;Ind Brake.
Mr. HU 31l; mild that his attentinn had been suddenly roused
and knotted by the imputatloo of hindering, by his economy, the
pfttress.of public business. Ile had expected tlitierrnt treatment.
Ttfe expeoes a she Colonial Department had been increased Inv
year 1,75e1., and he (Mr. Ilume) considering the pretences to be

THE BRITISH PRESS•

one, and that Injury must certainly follow Its adoption. (Hear.) place since that period, namely, 11117 ? Those who were members
In answer to another observation of the mom, Gentleman, he of the House at that torte, would recollect what tell from the Noble
would only reply, that it they were to embody as many of the loin), who, in his speech, stated that the establishment to which
• militia as they would disembody of the regulars, they would save they were then arrived by the recommendation of that committee,
nothing by doing so, and would have no inefficient corps in the was not the establishment to which they might expect to come in
bargain. (Hear, hear.) The lion. Gentleman had said that the the course of a few years; but, said his Lordship, after the changes
colonial garrisons were greater thßn they ought to be. To this he which had taken place and the warfare that had gone on for so long
would not reply at ply great length, because his lion. Friend near a period, it wits impossible to return to that establishment 'Emmett-
him (Mr. W. Horton, was so conversant with that subject that he siely which a few year,' of pence would enable them to come to.
would leave it to him to do so. But one (*.serration he could not The Hammon that evasion went with the Noble bled, though the
retrain from making. The Honourable Gentleman, instating committee went farther in theirealculations. He should show how
that the colonial garrisons were too large, had particularly completely they had been deceived in the expectations held our by
specified that of Gibraltar. le the course of the last See- that committee; thnt, in short, every thing. instead of decreasing,
eion of Parliament a similar observation had been made with re. as that Committee had hoped, almost every thing had increased.
erect to the garrison of Gibraltar, upon which occaninn his Hon. All the repent' of that Committee stated that by a redutnion of
i rend opposite, who had been there (we believe Sir IL Wilson), the expenditure of the country in time of peace, they would
heti staved that the garrison, in his opinion. was not too large. husband their resources, and would be able whenever war
t Hear, hcar. hear.) The lion. Member. in supporting his prom,- occurred to make those exertions which would be demanded of
tenon. was rather unfortuome in the only instance which he had them; and they properly stated that it was by the finances that they
quoted ; for the fact wag, 'and he believed his lion. Friend would were empowered to make those exenions during the war which the
hear him out in the assertion, that the garrison was, if any thing, country had displayed ; and they concluded by saying there was
too small. Ile wag no: going to follow the lion. Member in all no other way of strengthning their resources than by Maiminution
his observatiuns relative to the finances of France and America; of the public expenses in time of peace. Every thing went to
but there was one positiOtrw.hieb was taken by the Hon. Gentle. impress upon the House the necessity of bringing their establish-
man. which he was at a loss to conceive in any way applicable to I ments AN near as possible to the year 1792. The Noble Lord had
the question. Ile argithd, that although we were adopting liberal drawn the attention of the Howse to the establishment of last
principles, and reverting to a metallic currency in order to sent(' year. A Gallant Friend of his (Colonel Davies) had said that that
the return of periods of distress, such as had been experienced in was not fair to take the last year and not to go back to a period
consequence of the absence of that currency. he could not consent when this House addressed and pressed his Majesty's Ministers to
to the estimates Mmut to be proposed. Tfils he (Lord Palmerston) I reduce the estahltahment of the army. It would be recollected that
conceived was not exactly a reason for leaving the country unite. in the year 1821, when distress bore heavy on the country, as it now
fended. The Noble lewd then concluded by moving that 86,764 I did. though not so much on the landed proprietors as it would in
troops be voted Millis Majesty's services at home and abroad, ex. I a few months hence, (Hear, hear, hear.) some good advice was
cepting the regiments employed in the territorial possessions of the • given to the country gentlemen, but they would not take it ; and
East India Company. from the 25th of December, 1825, to the they acted as inconsistent as they possibly conid have donee for
24th of December. Mi. when the estimates were brought up, nottrithitandiqg the attempts
Lord MI GfON arid that he had anted in a minority of nine made to reduce them, those Gentlemen In every instance voted for
last year upon the proposed increase of 10,080 men to the military the high estanlieliments of the country, but when they name to the
establishment of the country, and the argument of having ',upper ed close of the Session they turned round and said something must be
that increase could net of course apply to him. It was evident tha: dime to reduce the public expenditute. The Ministers then yielded,
the taste for keeping up a large military force had not yet been put hut with a very bad grace; and the consequence was a reduction in
down, and he would venture to predict that the same necessity every department ; for in the course of the next year one millien
1 which ir. 1822 induced the landed proprietors to call for a reduction and a half was saved in this establishment, including the navy and
in the expenditure of Moment), would operate more imperatively ordnance. A further reduction or halt' a million had, by the
in 1827. It was evident hem the estimate of the Noble Lord that pressing of thin House on the Ministers, been Rubsitanently effected;
his Majesty's :tlinietee. considered that the safety oldie country de. ;tot that the House would see the good effect arising front a de-
pended upon Moping ups large nillitary establishment. They could termination to give advice to hie Majesty's Ministers. But since
never, he was convinced, prove to his satisfaction that there was a then, year Sifter yew bad added to the number of the army. In
necessity lot such a large establishment. It might be true that the year 1825 the House was unfortunately induced to increase
the colonies required a greater force than usual; but the other the number of men fifteen thousand, the reason assigned being.
places could do with a less. Fifty years ago. when the forces of that the disturbed state of Ireland, and also the unsettled
this country were comparatively small we had the continent of position of sonic of the colonies occasioned by the resolutions of
America to protect. At the very time too, at which his Majesty's this House respecting the Stave Trade ; hut both of which mums
• Ministers were tedneing the pecuniary terources of the country, had now passed by. Ile believed, however, of the troops for the
they were adding 20.000 med to a military establishment already relief of those colonies not one.fifth ever went there, No that, in
too large. The estimate of this year was only, said the Noble fact, it was only to increase the number in this country. IVhere
Lord. greater than that of last year by the stint of 126.0001.; but was the reason for such an enormoss amount? At present there
then both tears were increment beyond thig of Ina. if the estimate were 32,670 men in Great Britain ; 82,940 in the colonies ; and
of 1822 was tan small, why bad they not then asked for the same sum '21,900 in Ireland : what occasion could there be for such a number
as at present ? or if the present egehriate was too large why not if from the years 1781 to 1792 the number of troops in this country
reduce it to that of 1122, the situation of the country being the never exceeded 17,000. He saw no reason why the regular troops
move at both periods? Witft respect to the militia, he much in this country should atthe present moment exceed them of 1792,
doubted the propriety of keeping them up at all ; the time was particularly as there was such an increase in the yeomanry as
gone by when their aid could by possibility be expected to be called would make up any difference in the state of the country
intorequisition. If they were no longer to be embodied, a saving at the two periods It was very telly stated by the Noble
int& at once be effected to the extent of 130.0001. The weakness Lord wl'en that increase was agreed to, that something was
of this country was to be found in the Stock Exchange; and sit far requisite M support the influence of the Crown, and to
from retrieving the evils which had there originated_so far from check the influence and power of the people. Tut if
restoring confidence to the country, Ministers had Inn increased his Majesty's Ministers would put the country in a quiet,
the evil by their negotiations with the Batik of England ; and al. comfortable, and happy situation, they would reduce the burdens
though he gave them medic Mr good intention, they bad but In. of the country. As long as the grinding system of taxation was
creased the alarm by the rubrication of the correspondence with the kept up it was impossible they could expect the country to be con.
Bank, which dearly showed the trivial measures which Government tented. He thought he had shown good grounds for the country
relied on for getting the country through its diflieulties. to require Ministers to follow the advice of the Committee of 1017,
Colonel DAVIES explained. . and to draw this country as near as possible to a comparison with
Mr. 111'31 E said that when they were about to vote the first of the establishments that existed before the French war. Untloubt-
the Army Estimates they should take into consideration their abi. edly a saving to the extent of four or five millions of what was
lily to pay them. Year after year there was ten addition of one, two, called the Sinking Fund might at the present moment be got rid
or three thousand pounds, acid lie would caution the House that it of; and if a reduction in the cavil and military establishments were
wan not because the increase was not large that nom should there- effected, a further saving of seven millions ought be accomplished.
fore agree to it without A reason why there should be an increase By these means every man in the country, whatever his rank or far.
at all. in his opinion the whole expenditure of the army ought to tune. would obtain an important relief. He could not contemplate
be revised and contracted one half. The House of Commons. be- a more grateful situation than that in which his Majesty's MI.
fore voting away enormous sums, was bound to consider how much Muter, were, if they would awed themselves it, as they had the
waseactually necessary. We were in the eleventh year of peace, fairest opportunity of placing the country in a most happy con-
yet the army and navy were continually 011 the increase, and as far dition. This, however, they could not do so long as their expen.
as he could see there was no better prospect for the hem 20 yenta. diture' and income remained so nearly alike. The House ought to
This country shouilltleavaioiraptlibef thamontibentalmewers, amnia. have a pledge irons the Mittieters that relief *wield be given;
turn from that unnatural state into *Nab it had been thrown in con. and ss he could not express himself in more forcible language
sequence of the revolutionary WV. When the insulin sittietion of than that which lie had already read from the Report of the Com-
the kingdom was considered, it appeared to be nothing short of tnittee of 1817, he should therefore move, as an amendment,
meanest" to keep up so extravagant an establishment—an establish. " That, in the opinion of this Committee, it was expedient, under
lishment which supported no lees than 27.090 ofileem, while during the present circumstances of the country, to make as large reduction
the years intervening( between 1785 and 1793, a military establish- in the civil and military establishments of the country, and to
went of 36.000 men in all had only been kept uph The higher approximate them as nearly as passible to the establishments
classes of society, who were in fact the law makers, derived m of 1792, as recommended by the Finance Committee of 1017."
much etunionient front the Mods of the state as they contributed Mr. BROGDEN thought that the lion. Member could not
towards its support; but if good faith was to be kept with the propose an amendment, and that it was only competent for him to
public creditor, it was absolutely nmessary that large retrenchments object or modtty the number of men in the specific resolution before
should be made in every department of the administration. The the Committee.
Honourable Gentleman then afteeded In warm tem* of eulogy Mr. HUME said it was quite competent for him to move an
to the examine held out by the King of Baran* who, although amendment. In 1821 he had moved amendments on the resole.
surrounded by the continental powers, had yet reduced his titans in various instances, which he would read to the Committee,
military establishment within die compass of his revenues if they would allow him. (Laughter.)
The Hon. Gentleman then called the attention of thellouse to the On the amendment being put,
year 1793, when a committee was appointed to inquire into the ex- Lord PALM IiIiSTON rose, and said that if the Hon. Member
pcnditure of the country. That Committee did not confine its in- was to obtain die consent of the Committee to the resolution he had
gullies; to that particular year, as had been done by the Committee proposed, it would not necessarily requite. the Committece to reject
of 11,`22, but went back to a period parallel with the then situation the restitution he (bort! Palmerston) mg himself moved. The
of the country. The Ilan. Gentleman might think it ridiculous whole question between him anti the mg
.. Member, whether the
to go back to the expenditure of 1793, but he could 'saute him that approximation as near as possible to the establishments of 1792.
those who had to pay the taxes would not be disposed to consider it which lie (Mr. Hume) recommended, in point of fact was or was
by any means ridiculous to do so. On the contrary, petitions not made out. Because, by the whole of' the argument which he
would be poured in, calling upon Ministers to do so. The conse. (Lord Palmerston) had addressed to the House, he had endeavour-
quence might be, that the Noble Lord, whose salary was now ed to make out that the mere establishments of 1792 were not the
4.0001. per annum, would have his income reduced one half. just criterion. The Committee must look tat the present circum.
In fact, every person serving under the Crown would have their stances of the country. He had contended that the establishment
incomes reduced, while all the country. besides would be benefited. now proposed was not larger than the existing circumstances re-
If Mai were done be was guise satisfied that a relief might he quired ; and if that argument was of any force, there he had shown
, afforded to the extent of twelve millions in the reduction of taxation that the Government had in point of fact sequin:cell iii the Income
within the course of eighteen months ; and which was as easily to mendation of the Committee of Finance. The lion. Gentleman
be accomplished now, its for the Nobl Lord to propose the reduce made the Committee very convenient for debate, anti spoke of it as
tion which he did in 1021, as he (Mr. Hume) would hereafter it served his views. lie (Lord Palmerston) remembered occasions
show. Rot to follow up the proceedings of the Finance Committee. when the Honourable .Member thought it suited his purposes of
What step was it they took ? They drew a comparison between debate to adopt other sentiments. and when he treated that Corn.
the state of the country in 1792 and the then year of 1817, and re. mittee io quite a different manner in which he was now inclined to
commended the military establishment of the latter year to be do. But Kite had looked at the estimates made by that Committee,
assimilated as much as possible to that of the former. In 1792 the the Honourable Member would have seen that they fell far short of
whole expense of the army establishment for the Colonies, Ireland, what he had represented, and that the tiovernment were not justly
and Great Britain was 2,330,000/. and the whole amount of the chargeable whit not having acted up to its recommendations. The
ordnance estimates at that period was 1,200,0001. the whole en. Honourable Member stated that if the Government would have
pence of the army and the ordnance being Atom 4,700,0001. whilst acted upon his recommendation, they would have reduced the
at present they were put to four times the expense for the support expenditure upon all the establishinelits just one-half. If the
of this establishment. He saw nothing in the state of the country Committee would look to the army estintate, they would perceive
to warrant such a difference. The charge on the country for pitying that about one-half of the sum proposed to be voted was ascribable
the interest of the national debt was in 1792 only neventee millions, to the effective part of the army, and the other half was fur half-
whereas at present it amounted to fifty-five nations; but if they Pay and other charges. Consequently if the Hon. Member's re-
, were to subtract that fifty-live millions front die whole amount of commendation were adopted, it would very nearly deprive the
of taxation it would show what power the Ministers had for country of the whole of the actual army. (Hear, hear.) It was
1
placing this country again id as highand commanding a very easy the Gentlemen to indulge in general declanianons upon
. station as it ever at any period enjoyed, but in which it could the expediency of reducing taxation, the abuse of standing armies,
not not be placed whilst Parliament consented to let the and in keeping up large and unnecessary establishments ; but he
Government keen up the present expensive establishment. The thought that with respect to the desire of reducing taxation as far
Committee, perhaps, was not aware what it was they were as was consistent with the public service, his Majesty's Government
' now calld upon to vote. He would just thaw what it was. The had shown in the reductions they had made since the peace, that
finance committee of 1817, took a view of the army expenses they. were animated with that principle. With respect to the
from the year 1735 to the year 1792. During the whole period disposition for a military system charged upon him and his col-
of that peace the average number of the troops never exceeded leagues, he could only say that he totally disclaimed them. He
36,1100 men.. In the years 17115, 1786, 1787, and 17011, they only was as sensible as any man that there could be nothing so absurd,
amounted to 30,000 men ; and on the average of those years, from or so ill-judged,as to maintain, in time of peace, a military
171:5 to 1792, the troops were about 32,000 and no more. What establishment beyond useful purpome. It was bad in point
was the ili'llaiioo in which the country was now place,' ? They of economy ; and it did tent answer in a military sense ;
had 33,000 disembodied troops and 5.1,764 of embodied troops. because, if the army was kept up, it must he unemployed ;
So that they were culled upon to vote for the maintenance, not of and must therefore cease to be such as it was desirous it
48000. taking the kola Artifiery, marines Goa imembodied and should be in time of war. He therefore merely recommended
embodied troops whith formal the establishment of 1792, but of the Mouse to agree to such a military establishment as would
Mi,764 regular troops ready to be called into immediate service. enable the Government properly to provide for the necessary
The royal artillery consisted of 11.446, including the Engineers; service of the country. In 1821 certainly a very considerable re.
and the marines were 9,090 in number, all of which were infantry duction took place. Government felt anxious to comply with the
and available for land service, giving a total of 104,200 regimental wishes expressed by Parliament, though against their own judg.
troops. which the Committee wits now celled upon in the eleventh ment, and they made a very large reduction. But what was the
year of peace to maintain; and at a time ton when his Majesty in consequence ? It occasioned a great inconvenience in the colonial
his speech to Parliament stated that he had every assurance of re. service, and a great embarrassment to the Government, and after
meining on the most amicable terms with all his neighbour. trying the experiment three or tour years it became indispenßibly
Could anything, then, he would ask, in the present stateof the coun. neceinry to come down to Parliament and increase the establish.
try, justify so large amestablittitment ? In Great Britain there were 'tent. When he spoke on the subject last year, he disclaimed that
no lens than 55,000, and in Ireland 22.000, making a total of 77.0110 It was as had been stated to-night by the lion. Member, that the
men at home, for which the couittry paid no less a sum than increase was to overawe the country. It was wanted solely for
500,0031. Besides which there were 74,000 yeomanry Innin. colonial purposes ; entirely on that ground the increase was granted
mined at an expense considerably increased since lest year ; ex- by the House, and upon that only did he ask it. But lie explained
elusive of those at Sierre Leone and at thu Cape; if thole were ad. in the first place the additional force wanted to operate as a relief to
del to the 104,200 troops there were no lees than 259,000 men that the disposable threes, and to furnish thereinforcement sent from home
were everlready to be called to arms on any emergency. Now, if the to any quarters when required, without taking. front the other
number of the army in 1792 were subtracted from this amount it Colonies the necessary fore's for their defence. limn the question
would show an increase of 173,000 men since that period. Was this was, lout the augmentation been applied to this purpose ? The
consistent with the recommendation of the Finance Committee of lion. 31ember had said No, because he found an augmentation at
1817, to whose recommendation he entreated the particular at. home and not in the Colonies. But to prove that it had, he would
mention of his 31rjerity's Ministers, especially when he reminded state that in 1825 there were ten regiments sent abroad, in return
them of what person. that Committee wart composed ? At the head Mr which only tour clone back ;in the present year eight regiments
of it was bard Castlereagh, and there were also file. Benkes, Mr. find been sent snit only six returned ; thus making an addition to
Tierney, the present Chancellor ofthe Exchequer. Mr. Peel. Sir Jr the 14 regiments which were afloat a considerable portion of the
Newport, Mr. fluskiseon, Sir G. Clerk, ni r. Gooch, and several year. If that was so, it was obvious that a larger force was neces.
other gentlemen. He would ask whether at this liniment there could nary to carry on these reliefs than the face required far the gird.
be selected those on whom the Government could place more re- sons abroad or On service at home. The House would recollect
liance ? That Committee sat for niore then two years, and made that there was not only an augmentation last year, but a new
eleven reports, embracing the army, the ordinance establishments— organization for making the army more eflienent. In the former
in short, the income and general expenditure of the country. And organization, when regiments went abroad thee went in a body,
he only requested those three or four of them who were on diet ('nut- only a few kept at home tor the purpose of recruiting ; but by the
mittee, anti had since been called to his nlajesty's councilsto follow new organization there were ten companies appointed to every regi.
up their own reammiendation, which was to this effect, that the meat, four of which were kept at home and six sent abroad. The
Committee making a reference to the year 1792, were desirous to advantage of that was, that the establishments at each colony
call to tfte notice of the Mum the low establishments of the coun- would he kept much more effective because, when casualties hap-
try in the latter part of that year, which were deemed sufficient pencil to require a reinforcement, it could be supplied immediately
fur all national purposes, whoa the Government contemplated a out of the men left at home. Though this system had not been acted
long continuance of peace; that the committee were of opinion upon long enough to enable hint to say it was perfect, yet thogar.
that many circumstances were matii,iiilly changed by recent events, enema abroad had become more effective than ever they were in any
to as to present an elect lunette' between the two periods, yet they former period. But as the emu:eines abroad were constantly tilled
submitted that as near nmapproximation to those establishments as tip by the reserve companies at home, the nott-ellectives were
may be found consistent with the most extended possessions throw/a upon the home establishment, instead of falling, as for.
of the Crown, and the augmented rates of the various fixed charges nicely, on the colonial garrisons. Out of the 11,000 tion-effectives
would be highly advanutgeone for relieving the burtlens and the 8.000 were found thus established at home, independent of the pre.
existing diettessee of the country. (!tear.) But, what had taken bolt &nitre men, *ho yere not efficient. The organiia:ion, tinre

fore, had thus far answered the purpose for which it was required, and
the augmentation had been properly applied. He would not go over
the grounds which he did last year, to show that this was a pe,,,
ferable system to the one formerly acted upon. He was sure the
Committee neither wished nor would endure that men established
by voluntary enlistment should pass their whole lives in tropical
climates. unfavourable to the health and constitutions of persons on
the colonial establishments. Hitherto the colonial service of tr,e
country had been made too much a state of banishment. There
were eight regiments which had been eighteen years in the Last
Indies and two others, one at Sierra Leone and the other at the
Mauritius, 20 years. Therefore, notwithstanding every efort made to
amend the system, there had been ten regiments more these nine.
teen years out of this country, and during a great part of that
period serving in tropical climates. With regard to the vote pm.
posed to he granted. if it were not agreed to, the means to carry or,
these reliefs would bectotte absolutely impossible. The come.
quenee would be to occasion a species of banishment to
soldiers of the British army, which was adopted in all other
countries as a mode of punishment to criminal offenders.
Hon 51ember referred to the disembodied militia of Ireland' •
but this 22,000 men dot not exist except in the Hon. Member's
fruitful imagination, for they were no, enrolled. He trusted sill
the view he had given of the matters before the House, that it ,e,id
not be induced to entertain the proposition of site Hon. Member.
The Hon. Gentleman had made some large statements, to show the
heave and unnecessary force that was now maintained: but his
mistake had originated in his not taking into considencion the Burn
required for the payment of those who afforded their services dur.ng
the last war. . . _

Alt% HUME thought the answer of the Noble Lord rather extra.
ordinary. Ile said that 13.045 men were intended fur the Eolon.es;
the reply to be made to this was, if they were so destined they teen.
went there. Then the marines, he said, were to be taken as land
forces; that appeared to hint Impossible ; they were all to be taken
as part of the infantry. Then what was the statement given as re.
garded the body said not to be enrolled ? His Lordship stated
there were 55,000 men and officers not enrolled ; this might be the
case, but the country paid for them. The force in Ireland was new
considered as unavailable as nothing. The views of the Noble
Lord must have undergone some change upon this subject: fur it
was only three years ago, when he ( Mr. Hume) proposed some re.
duction of this part of the establishment, that the 'Noble Lord asked
whether it was desired to destroy the consfrution. The Nobie
Lord now said they were not to be calculated ost ; and he (Mr.
Hume) inquired how it was. then, that P 1.0011!. had been paid for
their support? The Noble Lord had referred also to the half-par,
and his observations would apply, if he would admit that this :le.
department was not to be, as at protect, filled up by young men. so
as to secure a constant succession. The halt'-pay list had m the
course Of the last nine years increased enormously; and during
the latter part of this period had not been decreased in the propit.
tion they had a right to expect.
Lord PALMERSTON explained, and Observed, the Hot.
Member had made some remarks on the introduction of young men
on the hall-pay list; he should take an after opportunity of reply.
ing to this.
The gallery was then cleared for 1 division. The numbers were,
Fur the Amendment . 43 I Against it . 111
Majority in favour of the origimil resolution . 911
On our re-admission we found 156.271/. Ifis. 6d. had been moved
for the Volunteer Corps in Great Britain and Ireland.
Lord A LTHORP thought it was too much for the eonntry, in
its present state, to be asked to increase this sum front 147,305/. to
150,271/. Ile did to wish to detain the Committee, and he stand
therefore shortly move, as an amendment, that the House should
vote for Great Britain (instead of 50.523/.138001.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said the Hon. tient. who last spoke. and
who seemed to consider the volunteer corps of yeomanry as an
ineffieient body, did not perhaps recollect the wartu terms of praise
in which the Committee of that House had spoken of this hotly in
11117. It' it happened that any corps of this establishment were 'et
in an efficient state, he recommended they should resign ; and this
recommendation had been productive of much benefit, for numbers
had attended to it. He also thought that the usual expense of
training and exercise might he avoided. It should be stated that
they could not go on pemianent duty without the permission of
Government. His desire then was, not that they should bed=
away with, but rendered efficient ; and with this view he had pro.
posed a periodical inspection of the corps, that he might hare mi.
nute information as to its condition. Ile thought it • highly useful
body; it avoided the necessity for calling nut the military upon
occasions when the civil force was not sufficient to restrain a cenata
degree of intemperance which might occasionally result from any
• partial distress felt in the manufacturing districts. It was a force
useful also, inasmuch as it exerted its influence to a certain extent
I silently. and was necessary to the preservation of private property.
His desire was, that, if it were kept up at all, it should be kept up
efficiently ; and with this view it was proposed to increase the sum
• at present given to each man per day from ss. to 7s. He had made
, careful inquiry, and he found, considering the distance men bad to
r go frequently, and that there were a horse and man to be main.
tamed, the latter sum would barely cover his expenses—it was the
0 very minimum. Having stated his reason, he should certaMly
concur with the vote.

Sir It. HERON objected to the volunteer corps, who, on ac.
count of their locality, too generally were attached to one party or
another. When the military were called in they acted with mere
impartiality and discretion, and evinced more general good con-
duct. lithe House wanted an instance of partiality in the time of
political fever, he would refer them to the notorious proceedingr at
Manchester.

Lord J. RUSSELL thought the volunteer corps kept up a ren
of rallying-point for party. He thought the military in the tine
of need, from being better skilled than the volunteer, was tnom
likely to act with propriety. Possessing this opinion, lie should
vote fur any reduction very readily. He thought it his duty to
propose a reduction. The yeomanry were inefficient as a tome.
The whole ought to be reduced to 254101 t. He could not tree
any reason why a greater force should be kept up in the country
at this period than was necescary four years ago.
Sir IL FEROUSSON had an objection to the yeomanry ass midi.
. • •

Lary force. He did not wish to ace them employed in sapprtssir7,
disturbance+. Their pay was too much, and their general uppta .
ance unbecomintr.
Mr. BENNE l' spoke from his own experience. Fire shillings
a day was not sufficient to support a non and horse. He though
it ought to be compulsory upon the yeomanry to go on duty, r
they might be matte useful as constables.
Mr. IVVNN said there had been no addition to the yeornarrr.
They were a civil force, and would be often found useful from t:,r,r
local knowledge.

---------------
Lord ALTIIORP thought the yeomanry a useful corn. but
such as might be easily converted into a political engine, an abase
which it was the duty of Parliament to guard against. Re wished
to see country gentleman and farmers often brought together, but
he did not approve of permanent duty.
Sir 11. VIVI AN thought the yeomanry a useful corps and rc.
commended a Regular inspection, which would make them r. 7.
efficient force. lie thought the time might come when the counny
would want them.
Mr. BROUIiIIA 31 could not approve of the continual increase
of the army in times of peace. Ile thought many months would
not pass when gentlemen would regret the votes which racy were
now giving for increasing the expenses of the country.
Mr. BERNAL thought the entire military establishment woe
on too large a scale, and would therefore support the amendment of
the Noble Lord near hint. If gentlemen wished for yemnanry, he
should like to see such corps supported out of the pockets of those
who called for them.
Sir E. BURDETT bore his testimony to the utility of the
volunteer corps in those comities where he was acquainted, tad
thought that whenever it became necessary to call upon them. th,!,
would act with discretion and courage; but he did not wish to K:
them formed into a permanent body. There was no part 01 a,:
expense less objectionable to him than that which went to suppc•ci
a respectable yeomanry.
111 r. PEEL said an erroneous opinion prevailed respecting
volunteer corms. It was thought that they were compelled to a--
tend on permanent duty, no such thing had taken place while he.
Secretary, hut their attendance was required at convenient scC
lie begged to assure the Noble Lord opposite that no instance '•
their interference in local politics had eau' come to his knowledo
he meant as a body ; but individuals could not be
_preventeo tip t
the expression of their opinions, and he for one would not interim
with the sentiments of any individual.
Lord MILTON'S objection to the yeomanry was, that nig
were entirely altered from what they were originally.
Milen both amendments were severally put, and lest w,d,sat
a diva. on, and the original resolution carried without a division.
Mr. HUME moved that tile Committee report progress, and ak
leave to sit again, which was agreed to.
, The SPEAKER having taken the Chair—
Mr. Illt ItiDEN reported progreas, and askedleave to sit *jet
—Agreed to.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the Houle
adjourned at ONE O'CLOC K, till Monday.

MINORITY

On Mr. Iluine'm Motion twruaklng a Itednetion In the lane Military

Sir

Establishmeas, Much 3,
Allen, J. H. Evans, Wm. Milton, VII.e. 11,1
Althorp, Vise. Ellice. Ed. ?Amick, J. B. lin..e.:,
Bernal, R. Gridith,, J. W. Newman, U. W. Smith, N• •
Birch, J. 0 Mae, Sir W. Ord, W. Tremont., nt.% S.
Boonghotn, H. Heron, Sir R. Palmer, C. F. Tierney. itt.tit 1
lienett, .1. Hobhnthe, J. C. Paren, T. Wildrtm., J•
Blake, Sir F. Honywood, W. Pelham, J. C. Wilson, sir R
Bright, H. Howard, H. Phillips G. R. Wood, A... 1
Burdett, 81r F. Knight, R. Powlett, Hon. W. Wyeill, U.
Davie., T. H. Lamb, Hon. G. Robort.mn, A
Denman, T. Illarjoribanks, S. Roberts A.
Duncan:inn, Vise. Martin, J. Whams 8

TIILLSI:

flume, J

MINORITY AND MAJORITY I.
For and against Mr, Denaton's Motion, condemning, the protect...Fn
feeling the Slates ou the Trials in the Island of Jamaica, in t."'
1043 and Irt24.

MINORITY.
Allen, J. H. Dories, T. H. Ord, W. Tiernel• at'lls.th
Acland, Sir Thos. Dutieruition, Via. Philips, G. Tua, C. A.
...
Atwood, M. Evans, W. Philips, U. R. Tremaytl. J. ti
Althory, Viscount Permasson,Sirß.C.Pares, Thos. Toms.," E,
Butterworth, J. Guise, Sir R. W. Pelham, .1. C. Ili-yens 51T.,,,.,
Buxton, T. F. Gaskell, R. Pupal; W. S. Williern., ~ , "
Burdett, Sir F. Heron, Sir R. Patmer, C. F. Whitt".°6`, N.
S.
Brunt John llobliouse, J. C. Robinson, Sir 0. W00N.,.;
Birch, Jot. Ileatheote, G. J. Rnmbold, C. Wyvills M.
Brounhum, H. Maywood, W. P. Rustell, Lard W. Webb, Ba.„ „
Cotbett, Penton Kemp, T. R. &Aunts, A. Wilton. 7'4 ''
Ron. AV. IV.
Calthorpe, Hon. F.Litshington, S. Riee, T. S.
Crompton, Sam, I.eveester, R. Sykez, P. I, C. H. c
%moth, W• 1 '
Cavendish, C. Munn thanks, S. Smith, W.
T LLLLL s.
Cavendish, 11. Alai tin, John Sialth. John
Thor
Cole, nil C. Milton, Viscount Sebright, Sir 11 ohn Drama* L 4,4
o olhoriv, N. 111.1. Newumit It. W. Taylut, N. A. ;NV"
C.C.craft, J.