The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1825-05-07 00:00:00

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(sat :lie pope could absolve him ? But it was clear Mr. O'Connell
J,lnor think it in the power of the Pope to absolve him. for he
,:used to take the oath. If he did not care a button for the oath,
u, the Honourable (ienderuen who opposed the Roman Catholic
Cltinis seemed to think, he would not act in this manner. (Hear.)
To this marvellous inconsistency did the arguments of the lion.
members tend. (Hear.) One Gentleman relied upon the protec-
tion of an oath, and another turned round with the Member for
Bristol. and tired a broadside against oaths its Coto, and denied their
efficacy to bind the Roman Catholics. (Ileac.) What in the Dame
or Heaven, or what perhaps was a still higher authority with the
etelasiorists, in the name of Dr. Duigenan, kept the Roman Ca-
inol:c out of office but the obstacle and security of an oath ?
peers.) It was monstrous for them to say that the thing.whicb
censtauted their only nostrum and protection, was ineffective be-
close the Pope could absolve the Roman Catholics from all ob.
sirvance of oaths taken to heretic States rind Princes. lie (31r.
gcoogham) laid no store by such oaths, and considered them alto-
gether unncessary. 'thegrand error consisted in there shutting the
door of the Constitution against the Roman Catholic ; let them open
that door, a d they would find no security was required. This had
bun long his own private settled opinion he thought no securities
wers necessary, but as he had to deal with strong and established
pct.:Atm, he was content to admit of provisions which he con-
sidered perfectly useless, in order that those prejudices might be
rawly met, arid if he could conciliate those who acted under their
iliatnee, there or elsewhere, he acknowledged it would be worth
the trouble to admit of the previsions anti securities alluded to.
Mr. PEEL said there was one circumstance connected with the
resent Bill worthy the attention of the !louse. It was a Bill going
to recognise and admit the existence of a Foreign spiritual audio.
my over some of the subjects of this realm. That must be ad.
mated. And yet they called upon the. Protestant, in taking the
ooh of supremacy, to deny the existence of all such authority in a
foreign Prince or Potentate, as they were now about to admit and
acknowledge by means of an Act of Parliament.
Mr. PLUNKETT thought the argument of the Right lion.
pent. (Mr. Peel) founded upon a mistaken view of the case. He
could not feel that the Protestant, in taking the oath of supremacy,
would be placed in a different situation to that he had previously
occupied by the passing of thie Act. In his opinion, he would be
in precisely a similar state both before and after. Every one knew
at that moment, that the Pope did exercise a spiritual authority
over their Roman Catholic fellow-countrymen, and yet they took
the oath denying all foreign authrwity, and took it blamelessly. Ile
listi taken the oath, but he did not, by so doing, mean to deny the
authority of the Pope over the Roman Catholics ; but he thereby
&Med all power in the Pope, either temporal or spiritual, over
himself and his Protestant feflow.subjects. (Ileac.) This was the
affect to which he took the oath. If he meant any thing else, or
were to swear that the Pope had no authority over the Catholic,
he would be swearing what every man knew to be false. (Hear.)
This was the meaning and tenor of the oath ; but if any Hon.
(jemleman thought otherwise, and were to bring in a Bill to relieve
the Protestant from the supposed ambiguity, he (Mr. Plunkett)
would be happy to eve it his support.
Mr. PELL did not think his objection bad received a satisfac-
tory sassier. It was not enough for him to be told, as he had been
by his Right Honourable and Learned Friend (Mr. Plunkett)
that the Protestant would not be placed in a worse situation than
formerly with respect to the oath of supremacy. But he t:11r.
Peri) thought he would. W hen the oath al/supremacy had been
framed it was clearly the intention of its authors to exclude all
communication with the See of Rome. The moment the House
consented to pass the Bill now before it, they would have consented
to enact a law recognising and regulating the intercourse between
the See of Rome and this country. That Bill acknowledged the
Toe:ates of the Randall Church, in their prelatical character, and
:;lotted to the Archbishops 1,5001. and to the Bishops 1,01)01. per
annum.
Mr. BROVG HA M despaired of any thing which he could say
rising the power to convince the Right Hon. Secretary I Mr.
Peel). as the lucid and satisfactory statement of the Right Hon.
ard Learned Gentleman opposite (Mr. Plunkett) had failed to pro.
thoe list effect. It was a strange and unaccountable error that
:rose from interpreting the oath to the letter, when, if interpreted
in that manner, it would prove neither intelligible nor trite. He
(Mr. Brougham)swore at that table, " that the Pope possessed no
maturity or power, temporal or spiritual, within these realms." well
knowing at the same time that he exercised a spiritual authority
and influence over six millions of his Majesty's subjects in Ireland.
In like manner the Priests, Deans, and Prelates of the Romish
(birch were recognised by. them to at! intents and purposes, and
these were all under the spiritual control of the Pope, not, indeed,
hg the law or constitution, but in point of fact. When lie (Mr.
Bmugham) took the oath of supremacy, he took it for himself and
nct for others, to the effect that he did not admit or recognise the
authority of the Pope over himself in matters spiritual or tem-
poraL He swore this safely anti truly. It was not now, for the
ties' time, they wcte about to recognise the Catholic religion and
the authority of the Pope. They had established a seminary in
Ire/and, and supported it by an annual grant, solely for the ethics-
ton of individuals intended for the Catholic priesthood, who were
to all intents and purposes under the control of the papal authority.
At that seminary, the College of Maynooth, persons were educated
•ho were afterwards commissimed and ordained by the Pope.
Other recognitions of his authority had taken place under several
local Acts of Parliament.

Mr. PEEL did not wish to protract the discussion ; but he wu
rot of opinion that the establishment of Maynooth College was a
We in point. In the very Statute by which that fourilation was
reefed, the trustees of the establishment, though Archbishops and
eithops of the Romish Church, were not recognised in their pre.
total character. They were simply Most Reverend and Right Re.
sra.d. without any farther addition.
Sir J. NEWPORT considered those title of Most Reverend and
Right Reverend as sufficiently indicatory of their character. and
the way in which the Act acknowledged their episcopal titnetions.
There seemed to bo a disposition to proscribe the Catholic religion,
end re-enact the penal code.
Mr. PEEL disclaimed all intention of proscribing the Roman
Catholic red ion.
Mr. L. FOS'PER thought the passing of this Bill would effect
rte alteration in the oath of supremacy. Ile for one would
dire hesitate taking the oath.
Lord J: RUSSELL concurred in the opinion that the authority
of ate Pope was already recognised.
Mr. PLC NK ETT said, the Catholic Church, and consequently
the authority uLibe Pope, were fully recognised by the Act against
Recusancy.
Alter an observation from Mr. BU ['LER CLARKE, the clause
was agreed to.
On the motion that the clause providing that nothing in the Act
shill extend to enable any person of the Catholic religion holding
the office of Lord Chancellor, Lord Keeper, Lord Lieutenant, or
other Chief Governor, be agreed to,
Mr. ROBERTSON rose, but was for some time inaudible in
the Gallery. IVhen we were able to hear him, he was saying that
be was satisfied in his own mind that this Bill would not in the
least degree tend to work a permanent tranquillity to Ireland, but
that it wu only introduced with s view to give a temporary peace '
to that country. He conceived it was beyond the power of man to
prevent the most fearful consequences ensuing to this country,
should this Bill be passed into a law, and it was our duty, when
we legislated, to look first to what might eventually happen from
uy measure which we might adopt, before we determined to adopt
it. We hail been told that there were only one million of Praest-
ants in Deland. Now it appeared by the evidence of a very re-
spectable Presbyterian clergyman who was examined before the
lanntittee, that there were no kss than 700,000 Presbyterian Drs.
seaters in the province of Ulster alone, besides 50.000 Dis.
waters of othaspersuasions. It this was an accurate account of the
number or Protestants in one province only, it was reasonable to
suppose that there were a pmportionate number in the other pro-
vinces. This appeared to him to be a subject of the greatest im-
portance to the safety of the country, and it was for that reason that
twit itletle:ti to propose an amendment to the House.—(The
ramie which now occurred throughout the House prevented the
Hoe. Member from proceeding.] Order having been restored, the
HA. Gentleman observed—be should not transgress long upon
the House, but he felt too strongly upon the subject to be put
than by noise. He was stating that the See of Rome was as active
as ever in endeavouring to make converts in England. After a few
obscrvatinns which were inaudible, the Hon. Gentleman con-
e:tied by moving, that after the worts " Provided also that no.
herein contained shall extend or be construed to extend to
rske any person being a Roman Catholic to hold and enjoy the
epee of Loft! High Chancellor, Lord Keeper or Lord Commis-
tioner of the Great Seal of Groat Britain or Ireland, or of Lord
Lieutenant or Lord Deputy, or other the Chief Governor or Chic!
Goeort.ors of Ireland," be added the worth following_' or than
ruble any such persons to be returned as a Mabee to serve in
Parliament for any city, borough, town corporate, University, or
Cinque Port, or other place in that part of the United Kingdom
ailed England and Scotland."
tar C. CI said, he differed so entirely in sentiment with the
Hon. Gentleman who had just addresses! the Ilouse, that he could
ttht refrain expressing himself upon the subject now under coned.
etration. Anti, in the first place, he would say. that ht had always
hit deeply interested for the Catholics of England, when he com-
pared their situation with that of their brethren in Ireland, and
that he would put himself to any personal inconvenience to attend
oat !louse, if it were for the maltose of placing both classes upon
&similar footing. He trusted the distinction which now exited
bonen the two bodies would be entirely removed, and that the
Ike benefit would smith to the English Catholics as were intended
tale given to those of Ireland.
The ltiestion wunow loudly called for, and strangers were ordered
to waildraw.
our u:urn to the gallery we found that the amendment had
been negatised, and the original clause Agreed to without a division.
Mr. BROUGHAM begged to propose an amendment merely to
that clause of the Bill which empowered his Itlajesty to nominate
and appoint persons in holy orders. professing the Roman Catho-
licr,h,chin, and exercising episcopal duties or functions in Ireland,
h, Majesty, or the Lord-Lieutenant, or Lord-Deputy, or other
Ciett Governor or Governors ttf Ireland should, from time to time,
th..k tit to be Commissioners for the purposes specified in the Act ;
',Tong which purposes were—first, to certify to his Majesty that
the ;then who had been appointed a Bishop a Dean (as the caw
Nod he) of the Church of Rome, was a loyal subject of his Ma-
jEt ard next to regulate the intercourse and correspondence
et+een his 3lajesty's subjects of Ireland and the See of Rome,
and to examine all Bulls, Dispensations, and other Instruments
Ith:ea should be received by any person in Ireland from the
tee of Rome. The amendment he intended to propose was to
17i'mtet Ms Majesty to appoint any persons whomsoever, instead
confining the power to the appointment of ouch persons es were
h°l! Orden, professing the Roman Catholic religion. It had
07, already stated on his side of the House what were the reasons
rit made him wish for an amendment; it was to meet the feel-
"::' of those Honourable 31embers who were scrupulous upon