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London, England, 1807-07-14 00:00:00

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between himself and the Noble and Learned Lord,
he entered into a general discuuion on the
Catholic Bill, on the principles of toleration. the
test and corporation ass, etc. His Lordship then
ervessed his opinion that it was not consistent with
the principles of the C Institution. that the late
Parliament should hare been dissolved at the time,

an.: in the manner that it was. This step had been
avowedly resorted to, to give the present Minis•
tens a d-cided influence in the new Parliament,
The Ecrl of LIMERICK beg tn by observing.
chat the Noble Lords, who had preceded him, had
so completely wand:-red horn the immAtate cries-
non, that, if he attempted to follow them, he should
be in danger of being called to order for his irregu-
larity. He could not, however, but animadvert
upon what the Noble Lord (Grenville) had su stre-
nuously recommended, even now. to do, what he
called tardy ji“tice to the Catholics, and that trim
the consideration of the late events on the Csininent.
He wonld ask, was the Noble 1.-rrd seriou; in urg.

ing this matter, in recommending the H-use to
Adopt this nameless something, which he 114 1 never
defined, in favour of the Irish Catholics? Would it
not be an ungracious offer to the Irish Catholics,
now that France was retracing her steps back from
the East to the West, to offer to them. that, in the
moment of danger, which had been refused iheM
in the hour of more apptrent security ? A No-
Me and Learned Lord (Erskine) had charged,
the present Ministry with dissolving the late Par-
liament for the sake of packing a new one. But;
he would ask. WAS there as little influme exercised
at the dissolution of the preceding Parliament, •
when that Noble Lord was a Minister ? Might he
not refer to the occurrences in Hampshire? or rather
to what fell under his 'acre immediate knowledge
in the county of WextOrd,where thoe most shameful
. .

pratiices had been curbed on in favour of the late
Administration ? He lamented that such questions
as these, which involved the consideration of rdi.

gious differences, Mould be agitated in and Wit of
Parliament; and that at a Uma when all pet sua-
vont and denominations throughout-the land should
unite together in defence of the poLtical interests

of the kingdom.
Lord HOLLAND rose, and pointedly animad-
verted on the order of Council respetting the levy-
ing money during the dissolution of Parliament;
he stated, that the law and constitution of the coun-
try secured to the people the consent, approbation,
and santlion of the two Houses, in the raising and
. .

appropriation of those tesoni ces which their in-
dustry, patience, and liberality, so abundantly con-
ceded to the servants of the Crown. The Noble
and !.earned Lord who preceded bins, talked much
of 13w, but he never heard so moth blending
of oustitntional law with religious party. He
too entertained the principles of Protestantism ;
but he denied the necessary connexion of Church
and State, in the inseparable and indispensable ef-
ficacy and extent contended for by the Noble and
Learned Lud. lie had read and consulted the
history of that Constitution, and er•eld not, upon
anthorities as grave and learned as the Noble Lord
himself could pretend to be, admit the pernicious
doctrines laid down by him ; they were more like
the quibbles of technical Special Pleading, than the
broad principles on which was founded the British
Constitution. That Constitution had its foundation,
strength, and excellence, in other sources, than those
on which it was this night attempted to .be
placed. That Constitution was not founded
upon Protestantism, it was anterior to and leis
pre-existed Protestantism itself. It owed its
origin to the wi.dom, spirit and bravery of the
people, who were then Catholics, as some of
the most brave and meritorious of its good sup-
purters are at this day, and a great proportion of
whom, he•could not 'sally calculate with respea
to the proportion between the population of both
countries, were, at this moment, equally aftive, by
land and sea, as well as by loyalty and principle,
in its preservation and stability. The Noble and
Learned Lord had belied his repeated professions.
It was not the 13111 of Rights. the Reformation, nor
he Revolution of 1609. that gave or preserved oar
Constitution. it was gross ignorance of the ancient
as well as modern history of the country to entertain
any such idea. They were subsequent events, and
he remembered and quoted the very sentiments
of the great authority, Bishop Warburton. referred
to on the other side, ►tating. in the words of that
celebrated author, that true religion did not
consist in professions or external forms, nor should
any idea be formed of any man, grounded on
particular doarines of religion. so difficult to be
understood, or perfeSly to be comprehended or ap-
preciated by any man, being the result of thought,
which often bewildas the most contemplative mind.
He should not have blended this question of Catho-
licism with the subjeft of debate, had it not been
for its intimate connexion with that breach and vio-
-1 Luton of the law which the servants of the Crown
had committed. under the pretended colour or
sanSion of zeal for the reformed religion, which
they had most unjustly imputed to the mind of the
Monarch, tinder the fielitious name of scruples,
which never. he firmly believed. had any real
existence in His Majesty's mind. The Ministers
had dissolved the Parliament without keeping
their faith and only pledge with the nation.
which the people had a right to look to_ from
them, and without law or witilnm. or any atiog
like necessity, deprived themselves of the only
sanction they ought to stand upon, respecting the I
Property of the Nation ; they did this on the spar
of the occasion, from selfish motives, and now
came to the House for Indemnity, to which they
were not, in his judgment. entitled ; it was not like
any other case. where Bills of Indemnity had been
passed. 'l'ne very Preamble and grounds of the
Bill were utterly unfounded, as it must state the ne-
cessity, political expediency, or urgency of the oc-
casion; where. be asked, was there in the case a
particle of urgency or political expediency for
doing or advising this illegal and unconstitu-
tional aft, in the name of His Majesty
Lord Si UMOU in a long speech, sup-
ported the Ministers in the political etpediency and
necessity of dissolving the Parliament. Eaclusively
of that measure. even were it wrong. he contended
that it would be a breach of duty in them not to
have hosed the Order of Council. He opposed the
Catholic Claims, not only on the grounds of policy.
but from fixed pinciples of education, and hoped
and prayed to OW, that they might sever be grant.

ed. as he would consider even the era threatened
from Bonbparte a less calamity.
Lord REDESDALii took a view of the several
civil states of Europe, to /hew the evil e&fts of
the Catholic Church upon lile2rty. He said tlat the
Irish Catholics were the dupes of a faZtios, and
would never have betrayed any discontent but for
the artifices of designing men. He added that the
contagion. hal spread tram the Irish Cathciics to
those of this country._

Lord GRKISIVILLE shortly, in explanation. de-
nied th4P he val any idea of changing the Esta-
bhuhed Iteb;zion of Ireland, as charged against him,
by what be (wilt call the heated imigincion If the
Noble Nord (lord Reiesda:e). But he repeated,
that fe eoncessi•ins to the Roman Ca.
Llli.:. of Irelsni e!sary to the security of both
countries.

Ral of ICINaH NI3HIRE enter-
ed into a lung nod•cation of the Irish Parlia-
ment► selich, he as.. tied, had been unjustly at-
tacked by the Noble I3iron (Lord Grenville). He
warmly supported the present questions, upon gene..
rat principles; and in conclusion observe, that at
such an awful crisis as the present, every man was
bound to do his duty, afiti he should have felt li;o1-
selt deficient in his duty, had he not made th,
few observations. In the hour of danger vre:y
mu► should be at his post, he trusted he should he
st his. and Th.:tight the Nubla Bdroll'll post wds
where he then sat. •

kird GRENVILLE, again in teply, said, hewn
highly nattered by the post of honour his Noble
Friend had mired-to. him, but be mast deny the
charge of throwing oat aay aspenions against the
Irish Parliament ; on the contrary, he approved
highly of their conduft. He again repeated what it
was impossible he could ever forget, being too
deeply engraven on his heart, and that was the
necessity of making ample concessions to the
Roman Catholics; it was his 6rm sonviaion,
and he spoke from the most mature deliberation he
was capable of bestowing upon the subjeft, sba;
that measure was essential to the malty, peace, and
harmony of the rPvlnt.
The Earl of WES rMORELAND strenunody
suppnrted the measure ; and the Q testion ocizg
loudly called for, the 13111 was read et second time
without a division, at. t ordered to be committed to.
morrow.

Llrd HOLLAND then gave notice, that at
acme &tare stage of the Bill, he should prepose as
alteration in the preamble.
The other orders of the day were then dispros4
of, and at Half-past Oast o'clock the Hours ad-
journed to this day.