The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1805-03-15 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMBAT.

MOOSE OP LOWS.—TauItSDAT, MARCH 14.
ROOS PEERAGE, arc.
Their Lordships rewslud into a Committee of Privileges,
and Lord WALSINGHAM having taken the Chair, the con-
sideration of the claims to the above Barony was resumed.
SOON evidence was put in on behalf .of a recent claimaw.—
After which a petition was presented on the part of his Grace
the Duke of Rutland, asserting his right to the llaroay in
question, and praying leave to be heard by Counsel in sup•
port of the -.me.
Phis promed.ng was urged be Lord DYNEVOR, on the pa-t
at his Grace, who concluded by meting to toe affect as praye I
by the petition.
The LORD CHANCELLOR made a few observations as to
the then state of the proceedings before the Committee,which
oneinated in the claims put in by Lady Henn. Fi•reerald, as
one of the coheirs of a legal possessor. He adverted to the
Standing Order, which called upon a Petitioner to deliver a
printed statement of his case within fourteen days after such
Petition being presented. The Order being read, the Agent
of his Grace was called to the Bar, and informed of the pro •
seeding called for by the Order. In consequence of what
• had recently occurred, it was agreed be their Lordships, that
the further consideration et the cue should be adjourned till
Tuesday fortnight.
The Committee made some progress in the consideration of
the Petitions of certain Irish Peers; and the reside of the day's
proeeedings 14.24, that the Chairman be directed to move, that
William Lord ll.dhain had made rood his claim to the right
at voting at rim-noes of Peers; to sit in Parliament, Sc.
The House was then retested, and after prayers were read,
Lend WALSINGHAM reported to the House, as above,
settordinily.
The Bills upon the 'ale were forwarded in their respective
stages, Among these, the Salt Duties Bill was read a second
time; and tire Pleasure Horses Duty Bill was read a third time
sod paned.
The Marquis of BUCKINGHAM deemed it in-
cumbent on him to call their Lordships' attention
to certain alterations which had been made in the
Mutiny Bill then upon the table. What he princi-
pally referred to was, the new regulation with re-
sped to Regimental Courts Martial—principally
that of taking evidence upon oath. The sullied
was of importance, and well worthy the attention
of their Lordships. He thought that some Officer
of a civil nature should be appointed, such as a
Deputy Judge Advocate, to report the proceedings
in such cases to the proper Officer. It was not his
intention then to trouble their Lordships with any
motion upon the subjed. What he sue ges:ed vr.is
merely with a view to call the Noble Earl's atten-
bon, in whose peculiar province consideratior.s of
the kind lay in that House, to the sulsjeft, in order
that the alterations alluded to might he explained,
and the subiad otherwise undergo some necessary
discussion, pending the progress of the Bill through
that Home.
Lord WALSINGHAM begged leave to ob-
serve, that what had fallen fiorn the Noble Mar-
quis was, at least, preriature. The Bill in gm,-
tion had not yet been read a second time, nor was
there yet any motion before the House to that el--
fed. The detailed considerations seftirred to by
the Noble Marquis could alone be regularly discuss-
ed in the Committee, previous to which stage, it
was the intention of his Noble Friend to give the
necessary explanation to the House.
The Earl of CAMDEN shortly after appeared
is his place, and, in movirg the second reading of
the bill, 21i/email generally to the alterations which
-k had been deemed expedient or salutary to intro-
duce intel the 'resent Bill. and which, he thought,
Could he mows regularly discussA in the 03111-
Sittig : as the power given to Magistrates on cer-
tain occasions; the regti:ations respeding the horses
.ref General, and other Officers ; and the improve-
s*** of the flan of Regimental Courts Martial,
which went to Movie a strider correftness of pro.
coedirg ; duo were also other alterations to which
/tie should not then particularly advert.
The Duke of CL A REN'2E enquired in what
rage the Bill then4as ?
On His lioyal Highness being informed, it was
about to be read a second time, he observed, he
should not oppose tile proceeding, knowing the ge-
neral importance of the measure to the well-being of
His Majesty's land forces. But, thinking that some
of the detailed regulations of the present Bill would
have a pernicious effed, as to the discipline of the
troops, he 'build take an opportunity of discussing
them ;n the Committee.
The Bat ems then read a second time, and, on the
motion of t'Ar Earl of C•MDIII, committed for to-
morrow, and the Lords ordered to be summoned
oa the occasion.

NAVAL DOCUMENTS.
The Order for summoning their Lordships for
the service of the House on this slay being 'cad ;
The Earl of DARNLEY rose and observed,
that. as be had stated on a former occasion, the
principal objea of what he was about to move was,
a comparison between the conduit of the late, and
that of the present Board of Admiralty. In bring-
113F this forward, he should trouble their Lordships
with a number of motions, but not with entering. on
the present occasion, into a wide field of discussion.
With respeft to the late Board of Admiralty, there
solve two leading considerations urged against it,
from certain quarters ; the first of which was, that
a sufficient quantity of small craft had not been pro-
vided for the exigencies of the service ; and, second-
ly, that they had entered into no contraas for the
building or repel' Lig of ships of war in the mer-
chants' yards. What he was about to require
would tend, among other points, to elucidate the
merits of these questions. With respell to the con-
duit of the present fic,ard. of Admiralty, one promi-
nent consideration was, its having bought up for
the service of Government a great number of ves-
sels of different descriptions: Of these, from the
very best information he could obtain, from pro-
fessional men, and others, there were many unfit
for service, and several purchased at a rate tar be-
yond their aLlual value, even were they, in point of
fa& fit for service. and several were obliged to
undergo an expensive repair, in the King's yards.
With a view to procare the necessary information
on this head, he should have to move for a list of all
the vessels purchased for the service of the navy,
since the liith of May, 1804 ; distinguishing from
when h cha de. the vat at on,
separately.
&c.
Navy

lue pi

re-
d war,
'raver, of
These
far cer-
• ; and
:arriesi

by such vessels. the calibre of the cameo, Ike.
There were certain parts. of the general subject to
which he had 'more particularly to. call their Lord-
ships' attention; and, to enable him the incite effectu-
ally to do that, he should have to move for a list of
the ships repaired in the merchants yards since June
1804 ; a list of the ships of war ordered to be built
since that period, specifying the dates of such orders,
and also an account of the number of ship wrights,
Sec. borne in all the yards on the Ist of March, 1805.
With respell to is important point, it would ap-
pear, notwithstanding all that had been said, that a
greater number of these were in employ on the Ist of
March 1804, than on the Ist of March !Ma. In
establishing this position, his Lordship enumerated
the number of artificers, Sec. employed at the dif-
ferent respedive pericds, the aggregate of wlii,
appeared to be. that on the Ist of March 1804, there
were 3336 employed; and on the 'same day in the
present year 3214, making a difference in favour of
the former period of 122 men. The Noble lEarl
made some observations on what he-conceived to be
the essential differences between ships built or re.
paired in the royal dock yards, and those built or
repaired in the merchants yards, which, by every
thing he could caeft, was greatly in favour of the
former. Added to this, was the consideration of
the enormous prices paid by the present Board,
which no rise, either in the prices of timber, materi-
als, or labour, could-by any means warrant. In this
view of the subjed, it had been represented to him, as
a fad, that in the buildhig of the ship Ajar, for in-
stance, a di fforenee ofabout 30,0001. would have taken
place. What he had stated to their Lordships was,
he conceived, ample ground for the pi-ea:Judson of
the required documents,-which position, he doubted
not, would be conclusively established, did the state
of the Noble Earl's health, near him (St. Vincent),
permit him to take part in the debate. To bring
this part of the subjea before the House, he should
have to move for the
prices paid for building and
repairs of His Majestys vessels at different periods.
He censured the mode adopted for repairing the
King's vessels of late years, with the exception of
that adopted by the late Board of Admiralty, as
highly objedionable. particularly in paint of ex-
pence, as it appeared that for the repairs of a certain
number of vessels, 298,15841. had been paid, where-
as, under another plan, the sane vessels could be
new built for 158,1741. He di! not mean, at pre-
sent, to offer a word, as to his opinion of the compa-
rative merits of both Boards, in other respeds, and
he horse he had said nothing which could be fairly
ciiinstrued as personal to the Noble Viscount, or
any other meniber of the present Board of Admi-
ralty. Such was not his intention His wish was
to procure that degree of inform' ion whie'l ha con-
sidered net. ..scary to enable their Lordships to under-
stand a subject, cerainly of great national import-
ance, and on which a greet data had iately been said,
the particular suh;.e9 of which the Motions, he had
sketched an outline of, and injeed other topics, eon-
'rated with it, was one in various points of view,
well worthy the attention of Parliament. In the pro-
gress of whatever discussions might ensue upon
these topics, the p iifessional knowledge and experi-
ence of the Neiblo Earl, lately at the head of the
Board of Admiralty, would throw considerable
light. Great praise was due to the Noble Earl for
his resolut:bn and patriotic exertions, in endeavour-
ing to clean the Aueean Stable of naval abuses.
He should na longer det-iin their Lordships, but beg
leave to propose hi; &at Witten. which was, in
effect, as above stated, "for a list of all the ships
purchased since the 16th of May, 1804, specifying
the respedive amoucts of tonnage, distinguishing
from *llOlll purchase.', amount valued at, and sums
aftually paid, ecc."
On the question be're r"t.
LOrd Viscount M e LVILLE rose; he observed,
that, having no obj- aloes, g nerally :peaking, to the
Motions of the Nubl- Li r z he should have scarce .
ly any thing to trouble their Lords/rips with, upon
the subject, because, as Ito Noble Earl very pro-
perly observed, that whtevar conclusions may be
drawn relative to the comparative merits, as to what._
ever investigation it may possibly be thought proper
.do institute, respecting the conduti of the,present or
former naval administrations, it may be 'drawn or
had more satisfactorily when she papers moved for
should be before their Lordships. Hethoughtit right
to enter so far, but not farther, hat° that past of the
subject, lest he should be thought in any degree to
shrank from any enquiry into the points in discussion
which any Noble Lord might think proper to bring
forward. With ri-sped to e prominent consider-
ation, in particular, adverted to by the Noble Earl,
he could not refrain from saying's few words, viz.
that he had to plead guilty to Vie charge of blame,
if such it might be, • f having given his best and
earnest advice, tor the propose of having ships
built and rep tired in merchants y lids. And he
had to state, uaon that part of the su jet, that he
confidently hoped to be able to prove that. whene-
ver it should come regularly under the consideration
of their Lordships, that he had given such advice,
from a full convidion, the the safety of the coun-
try, at the time, & pended on his doing so, because,
he saw no other means, by which the naval force of
the country, under tie existing circumstances,
could be upheld. W.th :e•ped to tit. Nable Lord's
propositions relative to the profuse ear nditure in the
purchases and repairs of the vessels in question, and
that all which nue) t le ter and cheaper per-
formed in the King's Yards; all he would then say
was, that whenever that part of the subject should
come in a regular and detailed way before the House,
he hoped to be able to establish very different
conclusions. He would only beg to observe, that)be
pradice was adopted, more or less by every Board of
Admiralty that ever yet existed in the country.
This mode was recurred to by every Naval Admini-
stration; in periods of war particularly, recourse
was had to the merchants' yards. The practice
may possibly be wrong; but it was erne which all
former Boards of Admiralty had adopted. No
person, out of choice, would certainly have re-
course to the merchants' yards; but the necessity of
the case always operated, and long experience
evinced, that, even were there a sufficiency of nsa-
terials, the navy could not be kept up by means of
the King's yards alone. He begged to state a single
• fad. fur the information of their Lordships, upon
this pint of the subje3, that out of 8! ships
110 W to commission, not less than :45 were built
within the last year. What he had stated was the
uniform practice. The present Board of Admiralty
was not singly culpable; if culpable, the pradice

could be proved in that reaped.: If the Nobly Ear' 1
could pr or e, that from want of care, or a proper exercise
of their powers on the part of the presesidlioard of
Admir ilty, the naval concerns of the cowry
suffered, he would then speak to the purpose. Much
had been said of the increased emences in the build-
ing and repairing of ships ; bat, let aseir Lordships
take the ohvinus circumstances of die case into their
consideration ; let them look to every other thing
in life ; let any Noble Lord say, whether he could
build a house now at the same espenee he could
fifty years ago ? The question of building and re-
pairs in the merchants' yard., was one of fair pub-
lic discussion, and, when it was regularly before the
!louse. he would give a detailed opinion upon it.—
There WtS another topic which seemed to be involv-
ed, a compel ison of the me-its and respedive fitness of
the person now, and the Noble person lately, at the
head of the Admiralty department : there was no ne-
cessity fit entering upon that consideration at present.
For his own part, he wished to avoid it. Observations
on that particular part of the subjed would more
properly come from others. However, in justice
to former Naval Ministers, he could not refrain from
observing, that the Navy of England, under the
administration of men, not professional, had not
gone to pieces. To the naval administration of
one Noble Lord in particular (now no more), he
might safely refer, that of the late Earl of Sand-
wich. Now when posterity refuses not the
justice to that Nobleman's Ministerial merits,
which, perhaps, was denied to it in his life
time, it could not truly be said that the Navy stir-
' fered by being intrusted to his care. Under whose
administration were the Naval glories of the late
war atchieved ? Not while the Navy was under the
diredion of professional men. In that epoch the
glory and brilliant charaaer of the Navy stood as
high, if not higher, than at any former period, and
as high, as perhaps, it would at any future period.
With respea to the subjeO to which the Noble Earl's
motion referred, there were several other docu-
ments which it would be necessary to submit to 0
their Lordships, in order to have it fully under-
stood ; and these he should think it his duty to
bring forward himself. In regard to the informa-
tion called for by the Noble Lord, he had no ob-
jelion to make to any of its material points—
there were one or two matters which he hoped,
upon a teconsideration, the Noble Earl would not
think it necessary to press for. He alluded, for
instance, to the propriety of calling for the opinion
of officers serving on board certain ships, as to the
state and condition of those vessels. These persons
might n,,t he altogether free from certain influences
on certain occasions; they should not be surprised
to hear complaints made at the beginning of a
Spanish war, of a ship being a bad heavy sailer.
IA lead laugh). Documents of that particular de-
scription were, he thought. not fit to be laid before
Parliament. The Noble Viscount adverted to one
or two other points in the string of motions
described by the Noble Earl, as objedionable
in certain ponts of view, or impraaicable to be pro-
cured in the way stated. These the Noble Earl
ag• eed not to press; and the questions were seve-
ra.ly put upon the rest cf his Lordship's Motions to
ttvz general effea, as described in the Noble Earl's
speech : they were, in the course of some convet-
sat:on, chieti. t.f an explanatory nature, :rid between
the Earl of DA it4LLY, the Duke of CL. A itE.Nrl:, the
Loan CusweLi.t.oft, and Lord Viscount M.A.-
vi [AA:, sevet ally agiee.l to by the House ; and it
was understood, that the additional documents ad-
verted to by the last-mentioned Peer, as necessary to
the full understanding of the subjea, arc proposed
to he laid on the Table by his Lordship on Monday
next.—Adjourned.

when such purchases were made, the value pt
and sums aitually paid for, each vessel sepal-
Ile should also move fur copies of all letter
which passed between the Admiralty and
Boards, and other offices, respefting those ship
. presenting their unfitness to serve as ships of
&c. particularly a letter from Captain Fras
the Hnuiostait, and the Captain of the Ilyase.
•documents were necessary to illustrate how fa
taro vessels were tit for the service of the navy
likewise an account of the number of gnus c.
•
~4