The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1822-05-02 00:00:00

staelus to the..more effectual rattrulting of the
arrtiy. 4 groulittre fry the widow of Parharrient here-
after to consieler whether those eettahitsois might
not be witodified. Whatever was dime, holietrer,
that way, must lise prospective in itolsperaffen, still
• keeping in view justice and liberality 16,oxistisig
claims. The Committee would are that any
minute calculations or details us 'to the terms
of the proposed contract, could not as yet be
perfect, nor would it be proper as yet to exhibit
them. Many explanations would remain to be made.
with 'parties proposing to contract, and it was neces-
eery that the secret of Government on that subject
should be preset ved until the contract was concluded,
and in a situation to be laid before Parliament,
After the grnersl observations which he had felt it
his dill to cff-r, he was not aware of any thing far...
ther ulna it was necessary fur him to add. tie was
not aware of any objection that could be offered to
the proposed arrangement ; the principle of the
measure was in itself just, and he trusted in its' hp.
plicrtion wituld prove highly beneficial to the
• country. The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded
by moving the following Resolutions :-
1. That it is the opinion of this Committee, that the
aasusat of military and snivel pension., and civil superao.
ovations, may he edisnated at about 5000,0001
2. That it is the upiuiou of this Committee, that thiamin..
'-waleulated as an annuity guaranteed by Parliament, may ha
considered as a burden, forming a, charge upon the public
income of the country, fur the lives of the annuitants, sub-
ject in sock regulatious as are applicable we each ease.
3. That it is the opinion of olds Committee, that the
amount of this charge has been increased, print-welly by the
long dorsi ion and extended exertiotss of the tate war. /rum
the sum of about 630,00.0/. to the said sum of 1000.0001
4. That it is she opinion of this Consinitwe, that under
this great accumulation of annual charge, sod is the pre-
seat aisle of the roomier, it is expedient to make provision
for apportioning this hordes) so se to ensure its Anal extinc-
this, either by an equal annual 'tinnily, terminable within
46 years, or by permatieot anouities limb arch provision
fur the repayaneut thereof as is requind by the Act 21
Geo. 111. e.
b. That it is the °pitiless of I his ConarilMO4l.4loll the Cuts-
missioners of his Majeety'a Trtaauqyaiddilli keel, sod COll.
tract (subject to the approlsation of 4116§11461N4) with arch
bodies politic and corporate, or other ponnies, ea may be led
liag to undertake to provide fir the charge of the above.
mentioned pensions end allowances, ere say part thereof, in
either of the above modes; sad who shall give adequate
security for the performasee of suck undertakiug.

Colonel DAVIES said, that in the present stage of
the business, the plan of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man was so difficult to be understood, that he
(Colonel Davies) (night be wrong in the view which
he took of the subject. At prevent, however, he
we, far from giving it his entire approbation. His
first objection to it was, that it appeared to be no-
thing hut a covert attack on the sinking fund—
(Hear !)—a mere attempt to relieve ourselves at the
expense of posterity. The calculator,' of the
Right Hon. Gentleman seemed to be founded on
probable contingencies by death alone, without
any allowance fur change by war or promotion.
A person of the rank of Ensign, receiving a pen-
sion, might hereafter be gradually promoted to that
of Lieutenant-Colonel, would he in that case conti-
nue to receive the amount of his pentiou as au En-
sign only, or would it he increased with his rank ?
Judging merely from the result of the total amount
of the pensions to he paid in each year, according
to the table alluded to by the Right Hon. Gentle 7
man, as composed with site amount of the suns to
be paid to the contractors, according to the Noble
Lord's supposition, of 11,800.0001. is year, for the
period of 45 years, he thought the public would lose
considerably, instead or gaiuii.g by the trim-action.
It appeared that for the lino 15 years of the term,
the tutu! of the pensions which she contractors woald
have to pay world be 63.058.0001. while the public
would pry to them 42.000,0001., whereby the pub-
lic would gain g 1,000,000/.. But for the occond
period, from the 16th to the 45th year, the con-
tractors would pay according to the table
39,600,000/. while they would receive from the
public 84.000,000/. being a loss to the public of
44,400,0001. oil that period, sod on site whole
trilissaction, of 23,400,000/. minus only the interest
on the amount saved in the first period.—(Gear.)
Mr. BRIGHT said he had heard the statements of
the Chancellor of the Exchequer with great sur-
prise. The Right lion. Gentleman said. the an-
nouncement of this measure bad excited a lively
interest in the country ; the litsie of the House how.
ever, sliewed,that but little interest was there taken
in the scheme, e'en by those who might be expected
to be most deeply effected by it. He hoped it would
nut go forth to the House mud the co 1111 l ty, on the
bare statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
as a saying to the country. It stood in the place
of all effectual saving. Something, indeed, riiiebt
he saved in the present amount of the taxes, but
the country would pay dearly in the long-run fur
what was so tared. It was clear to him that for
a speculation which would only begin to be benefi-
ciul to the contractor at the end of sixteen years,
• large remuneration must be given. No man
would otherwise undertake a speculation for so re.
mote a prosprctof gaits. If the House agreed to theft
rerolutinns, Awing the amount of the @operant's'''.
tionsiond pensions at 5 000,000/. it could never agaiu
review those superaormations to see how far they
were properly grouted. He trusted, therefore, that
the House would reject the resolutioos, and he
should certeioly oppose the measure in this stage.
Sir J. NEWTORT said, the plan now proposed
operated on I principle directly opposite to that of
the sinking fund. Hillis scheme which the ChMs.
cellar of the Exchequer had very properly charac-
terised as octet' its its nature, were adopted, he'
should wish the Committee to consider whether it
would not be better that the Commissioners fur
the reduction of the national debt should be
allowed to act as the contractors, by which
mama the profit, tf any, would ultimately he
gained by the public. A large remuneration
would undoubtedly be expected by any contrac-
tor who might be disposed to etubark iu the
sprculatim ; and the plan was in principle a re-
duction to the extent of the sum annually paid to
the contractor. He agreed with the Hon. Member
for Bristol, in hoping that it would not draw off
the public •tteutiou from inquiry into the State
of the revenue and expenditure, which would be
greatly perpolicial to the public interests.
Mr. BRAIANORT said, so far as the measure
might tend to diviert the public attention from the
recructinn of the expenditure, he was inclined to
(hutted from it; but he considered it as a benefit.
as far as it wtsut to the relief of the tstatioo. Ile '
GOP Itl .not reconcile it its consistency with the prin.
ciplu of the sinking fund ; but he should be better

. .
....,
pleated.if that ineatandthey 4 all 110 IS to take,
away the sinking fund altogethaL •• . •
Mr. .1. MARTIIIr attributed the prettiest measure
to the determination of Ministers to keep up the
two Postmasters-General and other unnecessary
offices. to maintain the influence of the Crown in
that H011,44'. He thought a sinking fund of
5,000.0001. necessary, and thinking the present
measure opposed to the principle of that fund, he
felt it his duty to give it every opposition in his
..... .
power.
Mr. H. GURRItY said the present scheme must
enhill it love to the public equal to the profit which
it would give in the contractors. He was one of
those who thought no relief from taxation could
give any immediate relief from the instant and
pressing distress which the country was suffering.
He considered this as a scheme 1.. support • fat-
Jacious oinking fund, which the Noble Lord proposed
to make more fallacious by tying it up to accu-
mulate at compound interest, in order that some
'future Munster might Hite on it, as had been done
'with the former sinking fund. if the Noble Lord
.found himself obhged to give up 2,000,0001. of
taxes, it would be better and more economically
done by taking it at once from the sinking fund.
Mr. T. W t LSON supported the plan.
Mr. RICARDO said, after all the declaralinno of
Ministers about the staking fund, this was neither
more nor tell than a measure for taking away
2.500,000/. from it; and he was eptotii.hed that the
[tight Him. Gentleman, who porsessed such a regard
for the sinking fund, should say that this plan did
not touch it. If to relieve taxation they took
2.500,000/. from the sii.kiag fond, let them com-
pare the oituation they would be in at the end of
45 years, with that in which this measure would
place them. In both cases the object would be
gained, and would be a saving of 2,500,000/.
a year in taxes. He would ask the Right Ho-
nourable Genilemsu to give • distinct answer to
this proposition ; whether at the end of 45 years
this measure would not leave him more io debt than
he would be it lie immediately took from the sink-
ing fund 2,500,000/. If that proposition were
controverted, he could undertake to prove it ; and
if true, was it not as invasion of the stoking fund ?
This charge was a part of tile debt th•tt citified a
sinking food along with it. The sole intention of
a sinkiiig fund was to bring all the debt into the
situation of this particular debt, of being gradually
extinguished within a given period. The present
;Asir went to prolong the exiotence of this debt, mid
seas neither more nor less thau to take 2,500,000/.
from the sinking fund.
Mr. Huseissox said; Ms Right Hon. Friend
was not disposed to deny that this charge was a
debt which carried its owu sinking fund along with
it. He dettird, however, that the plait now pro-
posed was any invasion of the provisions of the
Act of 179'2, by which the Principle of she
sinking Nod was regulated. The effect of the
plan, was to Convert the charge into annuities for
• term of years, instead of determinable by the
death of the parties as at present. If all the sums
boriowed for the carrying on of the hot war had
been raised on annuities for forty-five years, we
should have hail large annuities to pey during
that term, but then we should be relieved from the
lengthened operation or the 1 per cent. sinking fund.
The measure was entirely one of expediency, which
we are quite at liberty to adopt. it was iii no
sense an invasion of the sinking fund. The surplus
of 5,000,000/. would still remain untouched, and
applicable solely to the reduction of the debt. He
admitted that by the present measure we are gain-
ing present relief at some little expellee to posterity.
But he risme() that even the sinking fund was solely
intended for the benefit of posterity. He did not
look to the sinking fund as an advantage to the
public creditor, so much as lie did with reference
to the means of facilitating such an operation as
that which had been performed in the present Ses-
sion in the reduction of the navy five per cents.;
and he would put it to the Gentlemen opposite,
whether if the sinking fund had been entirely taken
away, as proposed by them some years ago, it would
have been possible to reduce the interest on so
large • portion of stock. The Hon. Member for
Bristol (Mr. Bright) had misunderstood the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, or he never could have
viewed this measure as removing the charge which
• was the object of the arrangement beyond the COO.
trol of Parliament. His Right Ron. Friend had
(bouncily stated, that it would still tie left ni its ex-
,
iiiirg statenwith respect to all the regulations to
which it was subject.
Ale. BRIGHT said, he would still maintain that
after the adoption of the Resolutions now before the
Committee, it would be extremely difficult for the
House to canvass the merits of the giants of these
pensiocs as heretofore. lie had au idea that the
money market would give more than its worth, hut
he was apprehensive that the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer would be apt to sell it fur lees than the
value.

Mr. HUsatssots explained.
Mr. Hums said he did not think he completely
understood what were the intentions or (lover ))))) cid,
notwithstandiug all the discussiori which had takru
place, fur hr could not yet comprehend bow the
"dead weight," of which the Noble Marquis spoke,
had any thing to do with the question helore the
House. The resolution might have stated that there
was I certain annual charge on the revenue which it
would be proper to spread over a period of 45 years,
and then hr could have understood what was meant,
but the resolutions proposed he considered expressly
'calculated to hide the real nature of the transaction,
which was supply a loan sun long annuities. The
Right Hou. Gentleman (Mr. fluskisson) had not
anawered any of the arguments of his Honourable
Friend, the Member for Portal lington, but he had
spoken of the expediency of the measure. The
only expedieucy to which he (Mr. Howe) could
look, wits economy, and be should support that
Yhi's' which would give the greatest relief at the
east expense. The Chancellor of the Exchequer
had experience of the difficulty there was in wak.
Mg the public deal with a new stock in the case of
the 3i per ceuts. which he had crested, and yet he
Dew proposes a plan, which, in his own words, was
" novel mid extraordinary." No attempt had been
made to answer the Right Hots. thiroriet's (in John
Newport) question, ut why the Coniniiiiinuticrs of
the coking fund could not become the contractora.
When theauggestion of his Hon. Friend, the Mein-
bar lot Powys), was et length attended to, and half
of s loan taro by theCounnissioners of the sinking

fund, a sash* td the public cit•nearly-
lions was the revolt. The Hiss. Member recalled
to the recollection of the Committee the appeal
which, at the toneasencement .of the Session, the
Noble Mari*. opposite bad made in behalf of the
sulking fund ; yet he now came down with n mea-
sure. the intent of which was to lay a burden upon
posterity. Not that he quarrelled with the propo.
Bitten on that account—he was anxious that the peo-
ple should be relieved, and all that he desired was
that it should be dune at the least expense. With
respect to the sinking fund, it was his opinion, thst
•if during the war we bad had none, the country
would have been many millions less in debt than it
now was. Ii he had had the documents which he
moved for, he would have demonstrated that we
should have been less in debt by 33 millions at least.
The present plan was, he conceived, intended to
keep from the public the real state of our ac-
counts. It was meting on conflicting principles; for
here was, on the one hand, a soothing fund by
which we bore present burdens for the sake of re-
lieving posterity ; and, on the other hand, the plan
now introduced was too relieve ourselves, and throw
the burden upon posterity. lie hoped that what-
ever plan should he ultimately adopted, it would be
open to public competition, and that no private
favour or partiality would have place, and then it
would be a mere 'flatterer calculation ; and on this
point lie could not but censure the Noble Marquis
(if he understood the matter) for having made any
mention of lives, which had, in fact, nothing to do
with it. It was a certain sum to be raised on an-
nuities. and he wished the Committee perfectly to
understand that half pay pensions had nothing to
do with it. He (Mr. Hume) did not object to the
intention of spreading at prevent large disbursement
over future years, but it was to the delusion he
objected ; and he also should wish. as the cheapest
mode, that it should be taken from the *hiking
fund.

The Marquis of LOWD4NDIIRRY was quite as.
tonnhed at the change of
.sentiment which had
taken place on the other side of the House; from
declaring the sinking fund worse than useless,
Hon. Gentlemen had now risen up as warm pro-
teeters of it. He did not conceive that the
present was the slightest infraction of the sink-
ing fund. The only proposition which has been
made respecting it from that side of the House was,
to tie up the five millions of which it at present
consisted, fur ten years, to accumulate at compound
interest, instead of at simple interest, and that surely
could not be deemed any infraction of it. Here
was a charge on the income of the country of five
millions, and in one sense might be suad to be •
debt, but it was a debt covered by a substantial
solid revenue. The mere que.tion was, whether it
was better for the public to have the advantage in
the order that the lives dropped off, or recording to
au average principle? And could any Hon. Member
say that this would at all affect the sinking fund.
We were thus not taking all the advantage io the
beginning, but making an arrangement to divide
the advantage with posterity. He thought, there-
fore, that we had nothing to reproach ourselves
with as it reprded posterity. The HIM. Member
(Mr. Hume) asks, what hod this to do with the
dead expense of the country ? He (Lord Lon-
donderiy) had explained on a former occasion, the
grounds oo which he considered this as differing
from the ordinary service of the year. He had stated
it to he an expense, sal genera', growing out of a
war of unparalleled magnitude, and that therefore
it could not be supposed so large a charge of such
s nature would again occur. But, said the Hon.
Member for Aberdeen, what has lives to do with it
They went to the lives for the purpose of 'mowing
what was the probable sum that would be wanted
iii the next year, and then make the contract ac-
cordingly. While they were thus tying up five
tnilliona at compound interest as against the
800,000,000/. of debt, he certainly did not think it
necessary to take the whole dead weight upon our-
selves, and particularly as coining from the Hon.
Gentlemen opposite, who had thus started up as
champions of the .sinking fund ; he for his part
begged leave to decline the alliance ; whether holy
or unholy, he was deternitued to have nothing todo
with it.

M►. GIENPELL did not think this measure would
he any interference with the sinking fund. which
would still remain untouched and unaffected.—
As the Chancellor of the Exchequer was not pre-
pared with any deiails of the expense. he was cer-
tainly not prepared to give au ultimate opinion;
but he was gratified to timid, from the ►omething-
like anent given in an observation of his Hun.
Friend (Mr. Hume), that it would be open to free
competition.

Lord EBRINOTOM, though he agreed that the
pretent measure was in conflict wiih the sinking
fund principle. and ha might better have liked it if
on a more simple plan. yet, as a measure of refer,
it had his approbation ; and he trusted that, in a
future Session, the House would deal still more
largely with the sinking fund, by attacking, nut
only the amount, but its existence.
Mr. IthasaLy said that for the last thirty
years there had been but a shadow ola sinking
fund, lie thought it would be a saving of expense
if this amount were at once to be taken from the
sinking fund of five million►. This was asserted
by the Chancellor of the Exchequer to be a sav-
ing to the public, but he had not laid a single
paper nil the table to shew it, and he (Mr. Ma-
berly) pledged himself to shew that it would in.
solve a considerable additional expense.

Mr. WILLIAMS was friendly to au efficient sink-
ing fund, which tended to diminish the public debt,
but such • our the public never had, but, on the
contrary, what was called a sinking fund had added
to our debt. He was so enemy to all circuitous
schemes, and he warned the House against sane-
tio iiiii g vpecitius schemes of relieving ourselves at
the expense of posterity.

Mr. BIINZTT (of Wiltshire) approved the mea-
sure, Is tending to relieve the agricultural distress
by diminishing the taxes.
Mr. Masa thought that the measure was a
wise measure, though perhaps not the wisest mea-
sure which could have been adopted ; hut he was
disposed to support it, because it would have the
operation of rrducing the taxes.
Mr. WM. SMITH wished to know the principle
of the calculation which the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer h.d gone on.
The CIIANCILI oft of the EXCIIIIQUSIt said, the