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pithnents on it when on a fouraserittemelem he had hiehe honour
• aidress their Lordships ; therefore, he would not accompany
the petition with any observations of his own. The Noble Lord
then presented petitions from the Roman Catholics of the united
sashes of Imo's, Lemsskera, and another in the county of
Limerick; from the Roman Catholic inhabitants of Dunmanway ;
from those of Trimoleague, from those of Youghal, and from those
or Bantry ,in the county of Cork; also from Protestants and
gamin Catholics of the parish of St. James, Dublin; and from
Kenmore, in the county of Kerry. In presenting a petition from
:be Roman Catholics of the city and county of Cork, the Nulls
Lord observed, that be should not do his duty if he did not cal! the
attention of the House to a document so important. The signs..
tuns to all the petitions he had presented were highly respectable, but
this in psni,ular was so numerously as well as respectably signed,
and more from a county of so much importance, that he felt it
necessary, in presenting it, to draw their Lordships' particular
notice to it. It echoed the universal sentiment, that the Catholic
Association had been of the highest benefit to the country; and it
humbly prayed that their Lordships, in their wisdom, would reject
the Da now before the House for the suppression of the Catholic
Association.—. The petition was then laid on the table.
The Duke of DLVONSIIIRE presented petitions of a similar
nature from the city and county of Waterford. most respectably
and numerously signed ; from the Roman Cat.wilice of Dungarron,
in the county of V. aterford ; and from the town of Bandon, in the
county of Cork.—Laid on the table.
Lord HOLLAND, .in presenting a petition of a similar nature
from the united parishes of St. John and St. Nicholas, in the
sty of Dublin. observed that it would have been much more nu.
merously signed if melte time had been given, or if it had been
known that so much time would have been allowed. As it was,
loaner, the petition contained a great many names, although it
Lv far signature no more than two hours.—Laid on the table.
The Duke of LEI NSTER presented similar petitions from the
tutu% of Killorten, and another parish in the county of Kilkenny,
It a ;Tam three parishes in the county of Kildare.—Laid on the
table.
Similar retitlorts were presented by the Marquis of DowIfSHINE,
from twt parishes in the county of Ferman/ITh ; by Lord CLEF*
PEW, front the parish of St. Paul, in the city of Dublin t by the'
marquis of I.Alevraww; faun the united parishes of St. Mary. St.
(Wrote, and Si. Tbeenen. In the city of Dublin ; by the grai er
b*,,ye.ny, from he +i/A/1601 In the county of Meath ; and by
Lard ELLE1(11010t74111, from two parishes in the county of Kerry.
The petitions were laid on the table.
COUNTER PETITIONS.

- ....„.—.
The Earl of BEC3I-Oliiiresented a petition from the county
sad_ city of Tyrone, foe the suppression of the Catholic Association.
Lord OORT promoted a similar petition from the county and
at of Dublin, signed by 2,000 persons.
Laid on the table.
ORANGE PETITION,
lord KENYON presented a petition from certain Protestants
in Ireland, members of the Orange Associations in that country.
The Noble Lard stated, that they conceived themselves greatly
aggrieved by the calumnies that had been sent forth against them,
and they prayed to be heard before a Committee of the House, in
order so prove the falsehood of the charges that had been made
soiost thetas. They stated, that they had been enlisted at a period
who Ireland was in very imminent danger, and that very high
authorities, both in England and in Ireland., had expressed the
greaten satisfaction at the course they had unitimily pursued.
1 ' They honed ib refore their Lordships, before ordships, they included them
in fee till now before the House, would inquire into the nature and
she condone of their body. Their Lordships would recollect that
some tin; .tir.ce an Act tens passed fur the suppression of certain
• mete-es, and other acts connected with those Orange Associations.
They h.ul, with the proper and manly feeling they had always me-
ads:med. immediately bowed to the laws and submitted. They
thotoet it hard. however. that they should be included in a Bill
for pamog down a Society whose conduct was so notorious es that
of the Catholic Association, which Bill had already pessed the
1
oth.r nous• setae was now before their Lordships. They enro-
l:4.llml that they should be thus considered as culprits, after having
loam sad so substantially proved their truth and loyalty. and
_they eumoted to he heard against such decision. They stated that
.iiOT had frequently received the thanks of the highest authorities
in tne country for their useful exertions--among others, one Lord
lianienant and two Generals cummailding in Ireland. They con-
',trio then:fore, they bad reason to complain, that a body also-
ratan as they were, not for the purpose of altering. but for the
Pareose of supportieg the laws, should be treated in a manner
r
, radar to those whose designs and whose conduct were so opposite
Li:heirs. Tiicy did not petition to be heard by Counsel at the bar,
:!try only asked to he allowed to be heard in their defence before a
(sq.:llium or the Ilona:. He (the Noble Lord) should therefore
i 4 more.
... liltirothe potition be refined to the Committee of Inquiry
.0 the State of Ireland.
''.f
ti:.te flu: pan littifu 1 i'l ignhrlcva read. It
the
i Oranige Lake
I:4,ra:l...hat:Lc tune of the Irish rebellion they reviewed wow men ;
r
2, it they had associated at a period when the principles of the
~n Revolution were subverting the attar and the throne—root
the, woe stilling to have all their books and papers, and documents
'f eseo kind eanniined by their Lordships--and that they were
grievously aspers-d, but innocent men.
laird Ist: i\ VON then moved, that the petition be referred to the
leranittiee el Inquiry into the State of Ireland.—Ordered.
WISH lI,LEISAL ASSOCIATIONS.
The Earl of CARNARVON rose to present a petition, and
7astaterrupted by the Earl of LIVERPOOL, who requested his
'steak:tis permission first to move the reading of the Order of
The Earl of liIVERPOOL having moved the reading of the
ihder of the Day—
Thel Earl of CA RNA RVON presented a petition from certain
:,!1 Rowan Ca:holies, members of the Catholic Deputation, pray-
` ~ their Lordships would not pass the Bill for the suppression
• . t•••.':an Cwtholic Association, and that they might be heard
. t. at the bar of the House. He would move that the pe-
„ , • read, and in so doing, he would ask the Noble Earl oppo-
. .ii were prepared to accede to that portion of the prayer of
Pe!itice which applied for lease to be heard at the bar of the
;.' -'er If he were so prepared, then he (Lord Cameroon) would
trouble their Lordships eith any observation ; but if the con-
-7 Were the ease, then he should feel it his duty to intrude upon
C•F Lordships' time, while he stated the reasons why he thought
• :Pttltioncrs entitled to have their prayer granted them.
. ,ril Earl of LIVERPOOL—The petition had better be first
~.I no petition from eertrin Irish Catholic members of the Irish
r alts Deputation was then read.
lhe Esil of LIVERPOOL said, that as the Noble Lord (Car-
''"on) !ad put so pointed a question to him es to whether he were
: ared or not to hear Counsel against the Bill for suppressing
.. • -•'•; Awloations in Ireland. he had no difficulty in telling that
.. '•',, I, rO dot he considered the nature of the BM to be such as
i...,t.i,erittlie the petitioners to be heard against it. Ile felt it his
1 , I.: -:ore, to oppose the prayer of the petition.
'' l'a' of t..tRNA RYON said, that after the observation of
t. • ~;title liol lie felt it his duty shortly, as shortly as he could,
'....-j q:',-, the House on the anbiect of the petition he had presented.
't ca. th-re were any body of people claiming justly. to be beard
. , ''ins`( at the bar of the House, it was the petitioners; their
ti..: Tii a rr so iitecing.and were each, as, if they ought to be respect-
. __ or iiiere, ought to be respected by the highest tribunal in these
",a 1, • it the principle of national rights were respected in that
.ous'• ;he House was bound ter hear the petitioners against that
t. of which they so grievously and so joie'', complained. The
.1 +/Isnot a measure of an accidental nature, but was the measure

),lARCH 4, 1826.

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ceedings consistent with the law of-this country, becantio his opi.
nion sou, that if there existed in England such a body as this
Catholic Association, overruling or attempting to overrule the
Parliament upon important matters of State, upon which Perlis.
meat alone could and ought to legislate, and to legislate with free-
dom' that body would not be a legal body. It had been said that
this Association would not come under the Cunrentiiits Act, be.
cause the persons who formed it were not delegated by the people
to act in convention upon matters of State. But he begged to
knew what was the difference between them? It was true then
wee no antecedent delegation on thz: part of the poops: but there
was a subsequent approbation of their acts, and the evil was the
same whether such Body had been originally delegated, or subse-
quently approved by Ouse whom they at least pretended to repre-
sent--.[An observation yea here made by some Noble Lord, which
dist not reach us I—He begged to assure Noble Lords that such
irterruptions had no eti'ect upon him, unless indeed it were to
put him in possession of the arguments intended to be used
against him, and thereby induce him to go more at large into the
question. If this Bill "insd stated fur its object the putting
down the Roman Catholic Association' he was fan to conks'
that lie should hare liked it better; because undoubtedly
.its
object was to put dews the-Annan Osbohc 'Akiociation, if
its osonlatet was such as the Bill described'-and provided against.
He did not at the same time mean to say that there was any news.
city for the object beings° stated. He retneinhned that at a. former
peeled. when he woe in the House of enmniona, he introduced cer.
thin Bills for putting down the Societies than in existents,. sod in
fps BUle htsdatt-ilpreiwate the wasseswer. dlet3othwieol winch they
wereihtended to put down. If this had been his BM, he shoidd
have pursued the lame course. The object of the measure was to
continue the Convention Act in force. The meaning of the first
clause wast that where there had not been antecedent delegation,
bat where individuals had pursued the same conduct and esercised
the same rule and government over the people as if there bad
been antecedent delegation, the provisions of the Convention
Act should be enforeced. Now, if it were true that this Convention
had assumed to itself a representative character—if it were true
that they had gone the length of taxing the people—he said of tax-
ing the people, because that was to interfere with the prerogative of
the Crown and the privileges of Parliament—if it were true that
they had exercised an influence and control over the administration
of justice, which was not to be endured in any country, then he
contended that the same mischief had been committed as if they
were a Convention delegated by the people. If the Mimeo Catholic
Association, or any other body, were permitted to have a control
over the proceedings of Courts of Justice, with six millions of
people to aid them, what was to prevent the Protestants from
forming similar associations, and then where would they knd the
possibility of obtaining justice, when no man could be placed
in the jury or witness box, who could not be challenged for
something which incapacitated him from discharging his duty ?
Was it not enough, therefore, that they should act upon these,
general principles, and pose a measure which had for its object
only to carry into effect the intentions of the Convention Act?
There was no special necessity for hearing any parties in this case. '
The general rule was, that no man could be heard against a measure
without having some particular interest ir. it. There were Calm in
which the House had, and he thought very laudably, given way ;
but that did not effect the general rule. In opposition to the argu-
ments of the Noble Earl, he called to the recollection of their
Lordship, that there were eases in which the urge ley of the danger
rendered delay inlisnsible, and Bills were passed through all their
stages in one day, inflicting the heaviest punishment upon in-
dividuals. In other cases the danger might be so great as not to
allow time for the usual deliberations--where if the least delay were
permuted, it would be impossible to meet the danger before it be.
came realised. This, then, was a case in which they ought to ad,t
the general rule, and not delay a measure which was imperiously
called for, if what it stated did apply to the conduct of the Roman
Catholic Association; and if it did not, then the Bill would not
affect them. If its statements were true, then their Lordships
ought to support the Bill; for if these parties bad renewed the
state of things intended to be suppressed by the Convention Act,
the Bill ought to pass to enforce the intentions of that measure.
For these reasons, and thinking that Parliament had no right to
make an exception of the general rule in this case, he should oppose
the motion.

•• • •
• .

Prrne 74114

Lord HOLLAND said, he not only believed that this was not
the Noble Earl's Bill, but very strongly suspected diet he had
never read It. He ( Lord Holland) had heard with consternation
the assertion of the Noble and Learned Earl, that the existence of
the Catholic Association might be according to law in Ireland, but
that it was not according to law in England. But the Noble and
Learned Lord atlirwards explained himself by adding, that the
Catholic Association attempted to overrule Parlisment. But if
they did so. Parliament had as much power id one country as the
other ; and why did they not proceed by some other comae than
that of legislations Upon the argument respecting the hearing of
Courted, be wished to elferl few words. All thedulamation of
the Noble Earl opposite Lead
it -about else
9ntellenreinfr g7liarnent, ad bee: put on tr One aide
by t e correction of the Noble and Learned Lord, who told
them that there were exceptions to the general rule ; that parties
had been oereeionally heard ; and yet not much inconvemenoe
had reeitittel from it; and their Lordships had proceeded with
the hese:en of Parliament as usual. But if the stream of pre-
cedens ran all one we and that against hearing Counsel
at their Lordships' tar, he should say, that even then they
ought to take the plain, direct, and honest course, and hear
these petitioners before they were condemned and punished.
Ile eared nothing for precedents in opposition to principle ;
but if he were to use them for the present argument, he could
show, that whatever they might be in that or the other House, in
the Parliament of Ireland the stream of precedents ran all in favour
of hearing the petitioner*. Without detaining the House while he
went into the details of those precedents, he would merely state,
that Sir Theobald Butler. Counsellor Malone, and Sit Stephen
Rice, were heard by the Parliament of Ireland against the very
penal laws which this Catholic Association were endeavouring to
get repealed, and in support of the Treaty of limerick. He
thought the Noble and Loused Lord was =tided to credit for
stating that he wished the name of the Catholic Association had
been mentioned in the Bill. Poe the Noble Earl opposite (Liver-
pool) he felt, as the Noble Earl knew, a great private friendship, and
high respect for his privateeharacterand conduct, which he believed
to be incapable of any. mean artifice. But they were now dealing
with the interests and rights of millions and millions, and lie must
protest against the argument, that they were not to be heard because
the Catholic Association were not named in the BilL Either this
was good for tee Noble Earl's argument, or it was not; and if it
was, why did he call upon their Lordships to legislate upon the
notoriety of the proceedings of that body y He (Lord Holland)
professed to entertain a high opinion of the talents and learning of
the learned gentleman who would in all probability have appeared
at the bee on behalf of the people of Ireland, and he thought e. pos-
sible that the considerable talent and eloquence which he possessed
might have had some influence on their Lordships' minds. But if
he possessed the genius of that orator whose eloquence shook
Greece to the centre. and the worst designs that could be imputed to
him, 'not the eloquence of a Demosthenes, with the intention of a
Candice, could enable him to do so much harm to the character of
Parliament, as they were inflicting upon themselves by the passing
of this Bill. He declared, that if he were an incendiary in Ireland,
and wished to deluge that country in blood, and to revive all the
worst scenes of her history, he should rejoice in being sent
away from that bar unheard and insulted. Upon all the great
principles of impartial and substantial justice, and upon every feel-
ing of honour, he called upon their Lordships not to refuse the
prayer of the petitioners. If they were determined to pass the
measure, let them at least impress the people of Ireland with the
I belief that they were easy, indulgent, kind, and generous ; and let
them not fortify themselves behind the subterfuge of its being a
general measure for the purpose of depriving that people of the
first right of freemen—not to be condemned before they were heard.
Earl DARNLEY supported the prayer of the petition, and said
that their Lordships were bound to comply with it before they could
be justified in passing the BiU. Ile trusted the time was not fax
distant when the real interests of the empire would be consulted by
the Legislature; and that measure, which could alone secure them.
be granted to the Catholics of Ireland. He took that opportunity
of protesting against the Bill about to come under their Lordships'
discussion.
The House then divided, and the numbers were .
Contents . . . . . 23 I Not ('onterits . . . . ID
Majority against hearing Counsel
SECOND RhADINO OF THE BILL.
When we re-entered the House we found

steps witiebmight be 11COMOoly le cirri these mamitros ions MVO
It was ammo me
the most ttral rights of the people of the esn Meg, e
was prepared to Amoy that any assembly Jared ant ants. thessight
Ito petition, but to bola permanent akteass, and to sate 4//10 fw
consideration every ease 411 M came before it which ondermok ii
superintend justice, whether Justly or net he would not as, 4 but
be that as it might, any cootroul ever the tulatilitisuation afjamice,
ha must say. was inconsietaut with the principles of any motion.
It max tm pomade taloa' without suspiciaa at the circumstances under
which the Ataocietion had been estalrliahod. 'Phc people of Woad
might be rff•endeil oith the refusal of the remainder of We Ptivaqlco
which they claimed ea /Ukiah subjects. They might couto sal
explain their comPisint, but could any body that knows what bas
been done think they ought) in the *aunt of the last few tears
more has been done for die good, police, prosperity, and happiness
of I•eland, than had been dime for teatimes before. The elide of
the revenue department had been reformed; toe taxon had been
reduced, England had eaten upon herself she debt of Ireland 4 and
she was, he would rentom to tab iota lazed than cry country in
Europe. In addition to all this, the adniinistrai ion of justice has
been corrected, the magistracy had been checked by the establish-
aunt of pump ervoions--these were the benefits bestowed by Eng-
, land. Theirstiordshlps would howetier see, that iu the midst Mall
this prosperity, avowed and admitted by all partite, this Aided"-
tido
,ossunted a•chsraotar touch more important anti ice. noting those
it would have held in time of distress. It has evaded the Ctr,settion
Act, sad the evils of delegation exist without there per}:apt lciao _
rani lotion. He moold Dot wawa maaltdorater cat-thar,
time, he did not inttnd to tenter into a aiscassion of the parti-
cular laps alleged agaitiat the Association. The rtitson wlip he
would not was, that be believed the AstiOCitttaoll to be cc-rithuted
in the same manner in which others, under similar circa"- *felt.
would be. Ilia objection was, that it mold not exist) wi'Lioul the
evil the Convention Act intended to put doom. -itisanp=anse of
language was neutrally to be expected at these meetings. He
would not dwell upon the proceedings of the Association. not the
resolutions which had been passed there, which could rot pooliI)11
hare bad any other effect than to tr.:arms:de the evils of-the
leountry. It might be thought by the Catholics to he 'he beetle&
of enforcing their claims; and if they limited themselves:to Gott
alone it would be well ; bat it did tot so hunt itself, it had ether
objects besides that question. He had healed that it wakasid that
one of the members of that 4ssociation had had a cot muctitatimi
made to him by *certain person who was not named, that lithe
Association would be satisfied with tlie cession of the Catholic
claims, it should be granted them. This person was anawered that
that would not satiety them ' • so that the Horton might perceive
that even if the measure of Catholic Emancipation wcrp carried,
the Association would still have some other object in 'kw.
He would defy any Noble Lord to say that such an Associa-
tion ever existed before, if they looked to it in every point
of view. lie would now come to :moodier important point. Ws
contra ;cation was called the Roman Catholic Rent ; now this was a
term of their own. lie thought thit the term, Rent, itself implied
obligation ; which of itself did airily with the idea of a voluntary
contribution. The idea of its being voluntary in a country to di-
vided between two factions, like Ireland, was ridiculous. They
must remember it was collected by the Catholic Clergy. and they
all knew the relation which subsisted between a priest Radius
flock, too well to think of its being revolutionary, although A might
be in many cases. lie would appeal to any one who had visited
the country to say wit:tiler it was now not in a mate of alarm. ,He
must contend that it was not the Association that was the case of
the tranquillity ; but supposing it was, if it had power to =lsmael@
tranquillity of the country. it also bad power to disturb it. 4 Haar.)
Such a power, he thought, ought not to he in the bands of any So-
ciety. There was a litilpassed in 1796, which a Learned Lien:Ze-
man showed bow it might he evaded, and yet it was not evaded.
He was ready to say that if this measure did not pare, counter
Associations would -be formed, which, from the wealth and .in-
fluence of the Protestants, aril the number of the Catholics,
would cause the greatest confusion. (Hear, hear, hear.) A.
Noble Friend of his (the Lord Chancellor) had wished the Am-
elation to be specifically named In the Bill; perhaps at first sight
he himself might wish it also; but when he came to coraler. he
must say he thought it bat as it stood, as it was the intention o'
the Bill to put down all Associations. The Noble Lord coriclutted
by moving the second reading of the Bill.
Lord KlNG—When this nal should hare passed into a law
we shall make the resemblance still more etact between Irtlind
and hell; for what can be more fiend-like than the conduct of thLa
country towards Ireland ? They had been told that the conflict
of Government had been kind and cow:latent, and that justice hal
been impartially administered. lie would tell thou., that is the
county of Tipper-ry, in 1823, no less than 497 commitment* took
placennder the Insurrection Act; of these 49/, 4172 were iequit,
ted. In all Ireland, he believed, that there had been 17071 corn;
mitmants, and out of the whole 4351 had teen" acqui.ted. /rut
was truly impartial haministration of justice. TIM A-s.tltistion
tigishootaierraprowatted art ortwarrantabli 4141 ,
et *MO 'Timm had let V, eliapti of a roil
limo before that Howse that very niet. n ease in whtes`t they 1,.1
interfered. He alluded to the aiiining • mandamus from the,
Court of King's Bench to admit three isidividuals to bten%;.t m=7
beta of the Corpocation of Dublin. Was this, he would a,k, an
unwarrantable Intertereoce ? The /nutrias of pahtleal tights Ir
the security of civil rights. (Hear.)

Lord TEYNFiAM supported the Biil, but vas N?udible beksi
the bar.

Lord GROSVENOR,—If Lard Wellesley had tecemmended
that measure, as it was said, he was sure he had riot done it with-
out accompanying it with some plan of melioration. The name
of Rent, which bas been complained of, would have been exactly
the same thieg if it had been called 'what it was, viz. a free gilt.
The Roman Catholics complained of oppression and injury sus.
tained from the Orange party in Ireland. They suited murders tc
have been committed by that body upon numerous individualt of
their persuasion, withoet the murderers having been brought tq
justice. Without pronotincing any opinion upon done stateineuts,
he did think the conduct of the Catholic Association of a juin*
able and constitutional nature. They collected money to be ape
plied in the support of individuals of their body, who wets from
poverty unable to bring their wrongs into a court of justice. 'And
they had been told be the Judges themselves from the Bench, that
they had remised ttieir power in a moderate and 'ennititutional
manner. Did this look like illegality in die Association ? . Their
proceedings had been open to the world. Reporters had been ad-
mitted to their meetings, deputed by the Government itself. There
had been as attempt made to assail an individual fore ;risiors
said to have been uttered by hint at one of their Medi . But
in what manner hail that attempt succeeded ? Had ho been pu-
nished ? had he been convicted ? hed he been even brought to trial 2
No. Failing in that attempt, the enemies of the Astheistion bed
put their hand upon a casual expression in a tarty long addles' tor
the purpose of attaching a hostile purpose le tha .4atheistioe.
There ens a subject of great importance, and worthy the alma-
Lion of the House, to ancatain to what extent groundless preju-
dices existed against the Roman Catholics. lie recollected the
time %heretic himself entertained deubts on the propriety of greet-
ing concessions to the e'Attiehcs. lie need net say what, violect
prejudices existed 40 or SO years ago in Ireland. At the time et
the Union of the two countries that prejudice still continued. Mi-
nisters tcok their advantage accordingly. " No Popery" had been
inscribed on the walla of the metropolis In evetydireetion ; the:
epigraph had now eit en place to " Day and Martm," and " War-
ren's Blacking." (A laugh.) He wished he could Ply the feel-
ing was obliterated with the inscription. (Heat.) Prejudices her.
also existed &picot the aholinon of the Stave Trade; but that
measure had musei, and not a hand-bill appeared agniruit it. Peet
sons under the unhappy effects of the MiIt:ALS:I prejadice that ex,st,
eel in Ireland had been compelled to abandon their country. Teem
might say with the Poet—
" Whereer I roam, wba•cver realms I sec,
My heart, untravilled, fondly turns to thee;
Still to my brother turns with anxious pain,
And drags at each remove a leugtheniag chain. '
The Catholic, separated from hie friends and family, had tide
dragged a mental chain, which had been lengthening at every ewe.
Conciliation was the remedy to be applied to the rya, of heard :
but when he looked at the conduct of his Majesty's ililietere. be
could cot think or speak upon the subject with ordionry pet'eece.
They wielded the thunder anal she lightning, hot no memoree se
rediers or conciliation were to be had from these bane.. The
Cabinet was divided upon a questiira of the most vital imt ettence.
And they put into the mouth of their Royal Montt langiser the
most opposite to what be believed were the acted sentiments either
illustrious personage. They had caused hint to ;Apt a dillaree't
language towards his Irish and his Hutment& mehieres. 'I v
the Catholics the Kit, of Hanover bad said " aye''—bet de
King of Ireland had said " rue"—to his Irish subject". It
might be said that the King bad it in his power to remodel the
Administration ; the breath that made, could unmake them t hr
might dismiss them, and form anew Administration: and it weetit
be much better teethe country to possess au Ailmtniatration ati
pable of giving a derided atErreative or negative to a get ateh of
such importance. Were that question to he decided ceeovaior to
the wishes of all liberal men, they might reckon ;:pot, the it prow
of the Irish ration, sod elicit lasting gratitude.
The Carl of GORFORD aid, it was impothibie fun him to ex-
press the eurpriee he felt when he mitt:id upon the tondeceof OS•
vernmeat, sad Parliothert steel, with respect :c this ILEIPUTe. li.
what iituatice would their conduct
_place the 'ecuatty ? There was
not a low pettyfoggirg attorney in Ireemil that Weida not dud ere-
ployrnost in hie attempts. to carry the ereeent Thll. Ile ought to
know something about I;ish affairs : and 1n gate it as his filth Pm-
sussion„ that there was nothing so well Calusilved to rtOiSva }taco
and tranquilety ill that country as further conceetans to the Reese+
Catholic% The only possible merle of doe, real and etthatattal
good t n the country was by purse rag s-ch a course, Ltd Get by
adopting meaturre hke the present. If tbeY were desireus of re-
moving the evtis of inland, that was the Wede of .ayeiltine the
remedy : sell a questicn Mauch vital impoetence to the Btu' shina,l
be met boldly aed openly .
The Earl of LONGFORD was &limo ef-wilewitting a tar
few observations to the atterter& of the House. There rented .s
the country many tenons who oansidered the present earwax more
in the light 01 a protective than a txrcite enactment. He was • % t
altPemed iti dent the txistrote qf el* it *load, tut fee there the
ICatholic Amor wino afrmtled no adequate rend,' y . The A 5..:..: ~.
Lion had arrogated to itself the functions of N ,vi rn-oc r t. Tir :!. c,
the uml-ailmunstratioe of justice coteplaicrd t': tot ..he pattr eee.

La:d
LIVERPOOL on his legs, speakini for the second read-
ing of the Ilill. ‘Ve understood him to say, that even if he had
been the most ardent supporter of Catholic Emancipation, be should
still have urged the passing of this Bill, as he considered the pro-
ceedings of the Association to be injurious to the Catholic cause.
Some discuss:on relative to the general nature of this Bill had
already taken place ; hut, before recurring to it, he must notice an
expression which had dropped from a Noble Lord (Bollard) rela-
tive to his (Lord Liverpool) not having taken the most manly line
of argument, and not haring named the Catholic Association in the
BilL Now be thought it particularly uefiir that be should fix upon
that point, when he (Lord L.) distinctly stated in • part of his
speech that the Bill had the Catholic Association principally in view.
If the House was called upon to legislate upon the Catholic As-
sociation, they were also legislating against the Orange and all
other AssociaLons at the same time. Now this took away com-
pletely the alleged partiality of the measure. It was that extended
view he took of the question and 110 t at one inertly applied to the
Catholic Association. He did not, however, mean to deny that
the Association was the prominent object in view. Now there were
two points in which this question might he viewed. It
may he looked at as a measure to prevent the evasion of the Coti-
yentiou Act ; this was the view the prewrible of the Bill took of the
subject. They might also look upon it tut its own merits. The
first view would not be conclusive, because he was ready so admit
that it the Catholic Association is not guilty, dime would not be
any occasion to extend the Convention Act; but he thought that
the argument of bat Leartiei: Friend oa the Woolsack was 17011
Hush*. The same principle was to be applied to one Association
as well as to the other. He Wall Ole of those who thought that, in
such a situation and In such a country, if looked to in all ita parts
with regard th its tranquillity, it was not Consistent with the spirit
of the British Constitution. No man was more ready than he sou to
admit the right of the rut; ect to assemble and petiars, or take any

•
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Or-3' .
ilk. 6,943.
0111111%•--- .
Fati./AIifICNTARY INTELLIGRIV , CB. of Government—a footsore which was allud
—......--- his opening Speech delivered from the throe
MOUSE Or LORDS, TolciaDaw, Mono* 3. for by this and the other House. This api
Wary measure that their Lordships had pl
Tye Toady Alilliotut Exchequer Bills BM the Transfer in Pledged themselves in his opinion some,
~ere mood the Annual Indemnity Bill, ware read a third time I day of the session, to consider. He though
!,iredeIOSVENOR said, he was sorry to trespass again on the beans measure without fear of comracifetm
millit the House relative to a matter cosemning blastoff ; 1 measure recommended to be adopted by t
ilt atweesary to correct soother error that had goes did the members of the Catholic Assoc
ets.--" k dlo remarks which he had taken the liberty of making I greeted by it ? A charge, and an extraor
a 4 'apall::=
itlailieem he had stated that he bad not made anything into the mouth ',Chia Majesty against those
and that, in short, he had notbto concerned hat not secret, but open Associations. His
of which ea many epape4eat. He had I non of Parliament towards those At
Wirs"—eleeis=rillasreported by the public press s• Ism said, that charges with " having adopted psoceedin
loil.
Ii NMlway. not recently made ani money e, way. oa I the spirit of thelC,onatitution." Be we
ismion he had done ea. Fie hit it ~,,,," a heavy charge ? Did it not go to
OM
•moons this report, and to state, that beheld war comernol
vithuda from the mouth of royalty its 4
a soy speadolloni of soy description WholosoMM riot grievance of which any loyal subjects .
CATHOLIC PETITIONS. King should come down to Parliament 1
that KING rose to present a petition from oxtail; la against them ? Best is that charge the ondividolds, it was, there was another still more heavy.
•ti•cti his Lordship observed would allaal am egeOlsoksaanme
them that these proceedings were' ealcula
0; the objects of the so-much-ralumniallid CedIMMI Agnadokloth. _ _ and by exasperating animosities, to endang
ti Pit down which was the intention of the 11.1 las. 11.1.9 u" and to retard the course of national imp?
gesso The petition was from three persons timmisiasait di,
thus charged with exasperating animostta
ety of Dublin, who stated that they were the Mee Of linniso 4 tbe discord that had existed foe centuries, and
joy, and in every way competent to become Ihimain donne' ves ; wounds of their country, of preferring to
tut that being tos poor to obtain tie rights which weft dolled them them wan a been theme bain& host
by the Corlittiott. they bad been "lasted by tie Alm- this &urge. Ter, (ova not be dented eve
cation itt obtaining a mandostma from the Court d 'a Beach meters on .e , ,
.aided the Haar.*Moat them into a Gstild of the sit ,as a .......,,,,,_• stip to oh. 4, wow ... - • r‘" taw It at A, Nal
41//f Ml' • s- .
11
ii,...A_ • r - II Ye understood till
...t; -.
. ....".4. .7-v--; see - urges to be unfounded ?
Ocageer ispe. Via
tion
team
wetre,
isbaliT. members of the Catholic Association were
n' ed lie would not hazard an opinic
. Arad Edwardel Adeoek i two of them were
1 11
. imcni
tires,
etas Cli laid as a matter of right ought to be admitted to
tie Corporation. But though they had frequently solicited admits- uhinathre had'
received all the information
could receive. He had been in the habit c
lion to the rumours of notoriety, or the an
t tees into some Guild as a preperatory step to the freedom, they pen, but he knew that whenever the How
i yew pot gain this admissioo, so they professed the Roman Ca. ering with the liberty of the subject, it s
cheek religion. They kill too poor to do it themselves, a that a Select Committee should be appoir
1 goIOWSPOS had been applien for, and obtained, from the Court of matters connected with such interference, f
• 00 Bcpch, directing tke Lord Mayor and Common Council to ing their judg.ncnts on better foundations t
' t abut them. The petitioners .declared that they had heard with notoriety and the public press. In this cat
• *deepest sorrow that it was the intention of the House to put limey had been used. Their Lordships ha
own this Catholic Association, which had been the means of side that the Catholic Association was not
scablirg them to gain their rights.--The petition was laid on the that all their proceedings were open • why
able. should we wish to know what we know so
The Earl of DONOUGII3IO,RE obterved, that he had several would remind their Lordships of the polit
Otos to present from Catholics In various parts of Ireland they had received their information. He w
;soot the Bill for suppressing illegal Associations in that country. the pure object of the petitioners was to be
Re would not now discuss the subject, as he had expressed his blouse, for the purpose of laying before t
rtinOlentS on it when on a former occasion he had had the. k.nn.ller