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London, England, 1825-04-20 00:00:00

QUARANTINE LAWS.

Earl DARNLEY said, he would not trouble their Lordships
...kit many observations on the subject he had now to bring before
their motice, as he only meant to move for the production of docu-
tnents, which be did not conceive there would be any objection to
grar.t. He would merely state that a Committee of the House of
(...o'r.reons had been appointed to inquire into the circumstances
cooneced with foreign trade. They had made their Report, and
had recommended a relaxation of the restrictions that had so long
tretetr7d this country from infectious disorders. Upon this Re-
port, I. had undersMod, the Ooverement had already acted, with
respect to the vessels that, during the present year, bad arrived from
A'eti'le•is. Ile believed that formerly 40 days were allotted for
ciacartine to those vessels that had a full bill of health, and 21 for
hat a clean bill. The 40 days had now been reduced to
r.ritt en those that had a clean bill of health no term of qua-
r:.-tier.. was demanded. lie should therefore more. in the first
p as for a return of the number of vessels entered from the port
• Alexandria, and laden with cotton, during the past year;
air! al.so for atopy of the Order in Council relative to quarantine.
The Larl of LIVERPOOL said, he did not rise to oppose the
restior er the Noble Earl ; but he believed the measure to which
be allu&A, as a new regulation, was introduced for the purpose of
t"..:Axintr the. yStern, because it was recommended by those who
Mal had the best means of amertainir.g as to its necessity. The
ficure would have an opportunity of considering the subject, when
Lt.! Bill in progress through the other House came regularly before
&ea Lvdahips.
Lout HOLLAND said. that if there were any abuse, in the
qe4rantine laws, they ought undoubtedly to be corrected. He
h.nm.d, hoverer, as the question was one of imporumm, that
ti; sr Lordships would give it due consideration.—Ordered.
-Er. Pascoe ()relief', and several Members from the Commons.
bleu/flit up the Metropolitan Police Magistrates' Bill ; a BiU to
permit the. Revel Exchange Company to Instal Money an Rem-
oter., ; and two other private Bills.
A djeurned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, TUESDAR APRIL 19.

TEES RAILWAY.

•S;r B. HARVEY preser,ted a petition from Sbeernesa,in favour
of the Tees B-...way, and also from Harwich and Southend.—
.ferred to th.:Comniatec oa the Bill.
Me. LASC!•LLES also presented several patitious in favour of
Ws Bill.

By Mr. HUBERT, from the parishes of St. Botolph and St.
Mary Arches, Bristol ; and also from the county of Rutland.
By Sir J. G. COTTERELIe from Kiegton acd Hereford.
By Mr. BASTARD, from Tomees, Sidmouth, Great Tortiag-
ton, Brixton Biddeford, and other towns in Devonshire.
By Mr. H. DAVIS, limn the Clergy and different paiishee of
BriiteL
Upon the presentation of the latter petitions,
LEYCESTL' *. begged to make a few observations. He
thought the whole of the petitioners who had sent up the petitions
at present on their table to be in profound ignorance; and indeed
be himulf, before he bail read the Report of the Irish Committee,
was no better. He conceived that that trumpery of Popish mira-
cles were among the Catholic articles of faith; but he bad now
learnt, that they were not obliged, to believe them unless they
chose. (Laughter.) lie had conceived them to be idolaters, bett
now thought that a mo't absurd opinion. He had always uncial.
stood that the CAOlOlll.l' wished to aggrandize and enrich their
Chinvh, but he had foetid that they aimed at poverty, more suit.
able to the secerdotal cheracter. (Ile o' hear.) These had been
errors of his own, but they bad been dispelled by the inquiries .of
the Irish Committee.
Mr. BRIGHT thought that the Hon. Gentleman had exposed
himself, by his speech, to a much graver charge than that of igno-
rance. It was not from reports picked up in that House that his
(Mr. Bright's) constituents had gatitend the character of the Ca.
tholic religion. They had read the history of their country and of
others, and hod thereon come to the resolution, that where/el the
Catholic religion had prerailed, it had been most destructive.
gHear. He (Mr. Btight) was • sincere friend to civil and r
esent
low liberty. (Hear, hear.) It seemed to him that the present
times had forgot the history of the past; but he would ask, was the
Revolution Protestant or Catholic? To whom did they owe their
civil and iengious rights, if not to the reformers? The petitioners
might be accused of intolerance, but their wisdom was founded in
experier.e full tOey now sought to repress that religion which was
springing up, in onler that it might not endanger the blessing.
which they at present enjoyed. intolerance was talked of, but he
was sure that it was shown in this House, for when any petitions
came up on this subject, they were severely criticised and exa-
mined. het them look back a few years, and remember the
speech of Sir Samuel Romilly, and they would see how be eh*.
renamed the perseentione in the south of Frames then. If the
Hon. tenetkutansfio had just sat down bad looked into history,
instead of the esparto reports of the Committal. he would not
hare made the speech be had done that eventug. He (Mr. Bright)
Aid net wish to stir up religious strife (hear, and laughter), but he
thought himself called upon, by the duty he owed his mostituents,
to empress his opinion that the character of the Roman Catholic
religion remained unchanged, and his constituents merely stood to
defend the rights and privileges derived from their ancestors.
After a few wards from Lori NUGENT,
Mr. H. DAVIS presented others from other parishes of Bristol.
A similar petition was presmted from the city of Gloucester.
Mr. DOGIIERTY presented a petition from the Protestants of
New Roes, in Ireland, in faeour of Roman Catholic Claims.—
Ordered to be printed.
Mr. CRAWLEY presented' a petition from Hunningtoo,
against Catholic Claims.
Mr. FLEMING presented a petition from the Clergy and Arch.
deacoary of Winchester, peering that uo further concessions be
made to the Roman Catholic
Mr. A. SMITH rose to present a petition from the parishes of
Portsmouth and Portant, aping the Claims of the Roman Ca-
tholics.
Mr. CARTER denied that the petition in question spoke the
sentiments of the inhabitants of those parishes, and read a resolu-
tion weed at a public misting there, expressing sentiments of
quite an opposite nature.
Mr. A. SMITH replied.
Mr. CA R'l'Elt made a fey further observations, when the peti-
tion was brought up, and °tiered to be printed.
The same Honourable Mcnber then presented two other peti-
tions to the same effect, from the Protestant Dissenters and the
retail denten, of Bangor.
Sir J. IN ICHOLL presented a similar petition from the Mayor,
Recorder, and Capital Burgesses of the borough of Tiverton.
Mr. It. HILL presented two petitions from the county of Salop,
to the same effect.
Similar potions were presented from Kirkton, from the Clergy of
the Deanery of North and South Rolland, in the county of Lin-
coln, and front the Protestant Disinters and Wesleyan Methodists
of the Parish of Seaforth.
Sir G. CHETWYND rose to eresent three petitions against
further concessions to the Roman Catholics, front the following
places :—tlte llorntigh of Stafford. the Borough of Burton-on-
.l'rent, and from Litchfield, in Stefintlehire. In the prayer of these
petitions he folly concurred. He vas glad to find that the people
ie. re roused to a just opposition to these demands. The measure
of pensioning the Roman Catholic Priesthood be censured in strong
terms.
Lord N 1.76 N T said that the name of a Roman Catholic Priest
had been used to procure signatares to this petition (from Litch.
field), though without effect, foe the parties who bed been thus ap-
plied to refuted. A boy of fifteen, had said that he, himself, had
put three names te it.
Sir G. CH ET W YND replied, that the petition was the result
of a public meeting held in the county hall.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that although the boy had put those
tames, and very improperly put them, yet he thought this should
not be allowed to diminish any of the weight which ought to be
attached to it, for the petition was signed by, and spoke the
sertiments of. a great milority of the -inhabitants of that place.
Mr. LITTLETON said, that every gentleman of fortune In the
county had signed the petition.
Mr. CCRTEIS presented two petitions from Lewes to the same
effect.
Sir J. ASHLEY, a petition from the Vicar, Mayor, and other
inhabitants of IVoetton Bassett.
Mr. DICKENSON, a petition from the county of Somerset,
from Danny, and from Franc.
These petitions were severally ordered to be printed.
Sir T. LETHBRIDGE presented a petition from the !Dhabi-
tants of Devizes, against the Roman Catholic asims.—Laid on the
table.
Sir E. LLOYD presented a petition from certain persons in the
county of Lincoln, against further concession to the Roman Cubit.
lies.—Laid on the table.
Mr. JOHNSON presented a petition from John Newton, of
Lincoln, against the oath introduced into the Bill for the Belief of
the Roman Catholics now before the House. Petitioner complained
that the oath in question required from the Roman Catholics an
abjuration of principles and practices which they already abhorred.
and therefore that it was equally unnecessary and degrading, and
insulting in its nature.—The petition was read, and ordered to be
printed.
Mr. Alderman THO3I PSON presented three petitions, one
from the clergy and inhabitants of St. Mary, Somerset; another
from the parish of St. Slaty, Mountthorne; and a third from the
Baptist congregation of Walworth, against the Catholic Bill.—
Laid on the table.
Lord TAVISTOCK presented a petition from the Archdeacon
arid Clergy of the Archteaconry of Bedford, in the diocese of
Lincoln, against further concessions to the Roman Catholics.—
t
Laid on the tatle.
S. 11. HA RDINGE presented a petition from Darlington, Dur-
ham, agairst the Catholic Bill.—Ordered to be printed.
Sir G. SH !FIN ER presented a potion from the Wesleyan Me.
fluidics of Brighton ; a second from the Name class of Disseuters
in Lewis; and a third from the inhabitants of Lewis, against the
Cathode claims.—Ordered to lie on the table.
Lord BR CDENELL presented a petition from the Churchwar.
dens and inhabitants of the parish of St. Nicholas, in the town of
Gloucester, against further concessions to the Roman Catholics.—
Laid on the table.
Sir R. HERON presented a petition from the inhabitants of
Peterborough, in favour of the Catholic claims ; also a similar peti-
tion from Newark-on. Trent to the same effect.
Mr. BROIiGHA3I rose to lay before the House some purlieu-
lars which he was enabled to communicate respecting the petition
from Grantham against the Roman Catholic Claims, which had
been pdpented on a former evening. What he would say, he would
be abler to say under the authority of a statement which had been
communicated to him, and which he had no reason to doubt. The
district of Grantham contained, as he understood. a population
amounting to ten thousand persons, and out of this population,
she number did the House think had attended the meeting at
which the petition in question had been adopted ? lie would tell
them shortly ; but first he would observe, that this public meet.
taxrappeared to have been constituted and attended somewhat
the andel of Scotch public meetings. It consisted
of nine and twenty individuals; and it must be acknowledged that
nine and twenty individuals constituted rather a small per tentage
la a population of 10,000. The petit;on was not much better off
than the meeting ; it was signed by exactly 439 persons altogether
—on 204 of these be had no remark to make whatsoever. With
regard to the remainder, fifteen were clergymen, and be was not
dispersed to make any remark on them either. However, there
were, lie was given to understand, lien individuals connected with
this petition, who were the exact reverse of clergymen, inasmuch
as they were not even in a situation to claim the benefit of clergy at I
all. (Hear, and a laugh.) These profound politicians and enlight-
ened petitioners were above the vulgar prejudices and ordinary ac-
complisliments, they carried their minds back to a happy sort of
primeval state; and however they may have acquired the rudi-
ments and principles of their political knowledge, perhaps
through the medium of speeches, they had never 'studied eery
hard for their ieformatien, for they were incapable of reading.
(Laughter.) Tiny could not rend, and they could not write,
1 but they could sign their names to the foot of an Anti• Catholic
petition by means of a cross. (A laugh.) That was at least the
short way of donee things, and they showed their love cf concise-
ness and their hatred of the Catholic religion by one anti the name
art. Of the remaining petitioners, lie was given to understand, four
were convicts. (Hear.) He begged pardon of the House aid he
also begged rotten of two mesa innocent and reputable individuals,
for oo reconsideration lie fund only two of them were conviere anti
the other two were merely keepers of brothels. (Hear and laioehter.)
These respectable persons, the brothel-he: st .eters, Celt such horror
of the rivalry of the Scarlet Lady of Babylon to lough) dint they
rushed with eis greatest impatience to sign the petition. ( H ter.)
Ot the remainder of the petitioners he had not much to my ' • ten of
them, if report 'make true, were ninth to be pitied, for they were
in the habit of receiving parochial relief. (Cheers and laueliter.)
At this period of the speed', the Honourable and Learned Gen-
tleman experienced an Interruption from the Member fur Gran-
tham (Sir M. Choltneley), whom, we understood, to question the
correctness of some part of the statement. Mr. Brougham ant
down, and after the confusion consequent upon the interruption h
subsided, he again rose, amid loud calls upon him front all puts of
the House, and proceeded to say—
ata could only state, and had only stated thy fasts is coesequeec:

of and relying on information he had received from • person whom
he thought nut likely to deceive him. lie was not Immured with
the names of the 198 petitioners, who, being unable to sign their
own names, except by the symbol of the !TOSS, had procured other
paeans to perform that service for them. Not knowing their names,
he could not favour the House with them, but Honournble Mem-
bers would all understand what was meant by nuirksnien. (A laugh.)
With regard to the whet individuals he had given the statement in
his place as a Member of Parliament. on the authority of repre-
sentations made to lihn. If the Honourable Baronet (Sir M.
Cholmeley) was acquainted with any of these four individuals (a
laugh)—he (Mr. B.) named no names—he might be more com-
p:tent to state something satisfactory on the subject; if the Hon.
Baronet (lid so, he (Mr. B.) would be satisfied ; however, all he
appeared at present to be able to tender was a kind of negative evi-
dence on the point. There was another part of the subject involved
in the signatures of the ten paupers. He had now accounted
for considerably more than one-half of the signatures attached to
the petition. The whole number., of surmlbers did not amount
to b per cent. on the populatiao of the district from which the peti-
tion came, and that was a poor per cottage. enough. He had only
farther to express his regret that the peutnm had not been read
when presented to the House. Be was very sorry for this, because
there was no doubt but it must be an exquisite morsel, and pre.
vented a delightful specimen of their style of petitioning. The
Honourable Member was cheered throttgbout, and sat down amid
loud laughter.
Sir M. CHOLhIELEY could as the Hon. and 'seamed
Gentleman (51r. Brougham) he knew nothing about the four indi.
viduals alluded to. It was with some degree of indignation he
found himself connected in the idea of the Honourable Gentleman
with such characters. He repeated be knew nothing of brothel
keepers, and had never been in a house of that description in the
whole course of his life.„(Loud laughter.) He thought it irregular
and unneceviary to ref& to a petition presented on a former day,
and already disposed of. He thought it as grand a petition as poi-
sable. (A laugh.) Ile felt rather warm on the subject, he admitted,
but he was incapable of presenting a petition got up in the manner
stated by the Honourable Member for Wincbelsea (Mr. Smug-
bans). or which was unworthy of presentation. He was too warm
at the present moment to give an opinion on the subject of Catholic
Relief, and would, thereto-on reserve the expression of his senti-
ments for a future opportunity.
Iced NUGENT had been given to understand that there were
198 of the petitioners who were )harked illiterate, and unable to
s4n their names in any other way than had been stated by the
lion. Member for Winchelsea (Mr. Brougham).
Mr. PEEL thought it rather hasty in the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman to make the statement he had done with regard to
such a large proportion of the petitioners, without referring to the
petition itself. lie (Mr. Peel) was exceedingly surprised at such
a statement ; sod being desirous of ascertaining what degree of
credit was to be attached to it, he had sent for the petition ; and on
examining it he found there was only one cross in the whole yeti-
' tion, instead of 198, as had been stated.
After an observation from Lord NlMlrrer, Sir R. Heston, and
the lion. E. Cuss, the petitions were read, and ordered to be
printed.
Mr. MABERLEY resented a petition from the Mayor, Bur.
gems, and Corporation of Abingdon, against the Catholic Claims.
—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. T. 'WILSON pprreesseeonted a petition from the parishioners of
St. Matthew, Bethnal-green, against the Catholic Bill.—Laid on
the table.
Sir E. RNATCHBULL presented a petition from the town of
Ashford, in Kent, against the Catholic Cleims ; also a similar
petition from Sandhurst, to the same .iffectn—Laid on the table.
Mr. L. FOSTER presented a petition from the town of Dun-
dalk, in favnur of the Bill for relienng the Roman Catholics.
Lord NUGENT. said, that, who reference to die petition from
Grantham, he wished to state, that he found he had been misin-
formed ; he accordingly wished to retract what had been said at his
side of the House on the subject of the petition.
Mr. BROUGHA3I said be took blame to himself for not ex-
amining the petition. Ile had intended looking at the names about
which such an extraordinary communication was made, with a
view to ascertain whether it was signed as represented. For the
future, whenever a communication came from the same gentleman,
whom he always found scrupulous to • degree in observing the
truth, particularly as to Catholic affairs, with which he was in-
timately connected—whenever, he repeated, he received a communi.
I cation from that gentleman, he would be most happy to act on his
oath only, *with, however, a small grain of allowance—that of ex-
amining the evidence. (Heat, and a laugh.) This allowance he
would make for the gentleman's zeal. Since the discussion he had
gone through the
.petition, and was bound to say, that the state-
meat was almost in every particular incorrect. To be sure there
were In one part of the petition fourteen names signed, aphareetty
by the same person. In another part twelve were in the same hand-
' writing; in other parts there were live or six bearing the same
similitude-nit' all, about thirty or forty were in the same hand. It
was also worthy of remark, that some of those describedas illiter-
ate wrote excellent hands; their writing was as good as the
average penmanship of the other names. (Hear, and laugh.)
The petition was ordered to be printed.
Mr. IsITTLEDALE presented a petition from the town of
Vest Bromming, in the county of Stafford, against the Catholic
Claims. The Ilonouaable Member also presented one from certain
Catholics and Protestants in the town and neighbourhood of Staf-
ford, in favour of the Catholic Claims.
Sir H. PARNELL presented a eimilar petition fromtheQueen's
County.
An Honoarable Member, whose name we did not learn, said,
that granting Emancipation would be meeting the wishes of the
Protestants, and doing justice to the Catholics.
The ?entices were ordered to be printed.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said he had a number of petitions to pre-
sent against the Catholic Claims. There was one of which he wished
to *Rya few words. It was from the Ministers and Elders of the
Synod of Glasgow ; it was signed by the Rev. Mr. nPFarlanc,
the Moderator, not as an indivithial, but as the representative of the
Ministers and Elders of that town, The lieverend Gentleman ac-
companied the petition with a request that it be presented as from
the Corporation whose head he was, and not as from him individu-
ally. For his (Mr. Peel's) part, he was just as anxious to watch
over the Church of Scotland as that of England. He entertained
no wish to compromise the dignity of one more than the other, but
yet he felt a doubt as to the propriety of presenting this petition as
' from the body. The letter lie received referred to a petition pre.
' anted in 1813, signed by one on behalf of the body, as a precedent
for the present petition. lie believed it was the practice of the
House, where the seal of a corporate hotly was affixed to a petition,
to receive it as coming from the body whose sell it bore. The pe-
tition, in the present instance, had no seal, and lance these circum-
stances be would be glad to hear what was the Speaker's opinion
on the subject.
The SPEAKER said, the law of Parliament was to receive pe-
titions as front corporate bodies, on observing their known seals
affixed to them. The uniforin practice was to hare the seal speak
for them ; at the same time he was not prepared to say, that peti-
tions ought not to be received because they were not authenticated
by seals. In the ptesent instance, he thought the safer way would
be to act on the precedent, and receive the petition as from a cor-
porate body, not having a seal.
Mr. C. WYNN said a few words.
Mr. J. P. GRANT said, that many corporations in Scotland,
such as the Universities, had awls; there were also many which
had not ; among the latter were all the Ecclesiastical Bodies ; their
usual practice is to authenticate any document they adopt by the
sinmature of the Moderator.
hlr. Secretary PEEL, then presented the petition, and also si-
milar petitions from the following persons and places :—The Pro-
testant Dissenters of Cranbrook, in Kent; the Congregation of
Fore-street Chapel ; the Congregation of Rev. Joseph Chamber.
lain ; from Shoulham ; from Trowbridge ; from a town in Wilt-
shire ; from the Congregation of Brook-street-yard; from Crown-
street, Soho; from the Protestant Dissenters of Illampfonl -street.
Manchester-square; from the Congregation of the late William
Huntingdon; from the Churchwardens and others of Batterley,
in Devonshire; from Tomes,; the Protestant Dissenters of the
Adelrhi Chapel. St. Martina-in-the-Fields ; the Borough of
Reading, in Berkshire; St. John's, Ilampstead, in Middlesex;
liatford, in Hertford; from Clerkenwell ; and Protestant Dissen-
ters of Union-street Chapel, Surrey.
Mr. W. SMITH did not rise to object to the right of persons
to petition; his object was to disabuse the Howie of a notion that
yesterdly prevailed, namely, a sort of general persuasion that the
Protestant Dissenters were hostile to the Bill now before the House.
On looking over an alphabetical list of all the Dissenting Cungre-
gations, it turned out that only five or six petitioned against the
measure. He held in his hand a regular list of all tbe.congrega-
dons that can be regularly called Dissenters, namely, Presbyterians,
Independents, and Barra% The number ofeongregations amount-
ed to minty-44x, and out of these only five or six expressed their
hostility. There were others who had done so, hut these did
not properly belong to the Dissenters. The Dissenters were
by many confounded with the Wesleyan Methodists, and
others who diffesed from the Church of England; and to
this circumstance the mistake was attributable. lie was
anxious to exhibit to the House the misconception that pre-
vailed. The Dissenters, as a body, had not opposed the present
Bill; as individuals they might have done. This, however, he was
convinced of, that not one in one thousand expensed an opinion on
the subject. He believed their wish was to leave the matter en-
tirely to the window of Parliament. It was a question on which they
abstained from interfering, from a feeling of delicacy. They knew
that there were many points of difference es well as resen.blance
between them and the Catholics, and therefore were they parti-
cularly anxious to leave it entirely to the wisdom of the beghla.
tore. For his ova part, .it would grieve hint much if the Dig-
writers. as a body, were enemies to religious toleration, and to
evil linerty, in its widest extent. (Cries of " Hear, hear.") Still
further would it be a subject of regret to hint if they thoiteht any
man's religion should be an obstacle to the enjoyment of civil
office. Theim we..- the grand political that they ehoold
do unto others as they wished to be ,tone by. Tame was no one
thing they loved more than political libeety, sled they mete at ell
times reedy to concede it to others.
Mr. S. RILE said, that a report had gone abroad, founded on
the testiionny of an individeal before the Committee on the State of
Ireland, that the Presnyieriens of the North of Ireenul were hostile
to the Cal:mile Claims. Ile had that (ley received a communica-
tion from the ministers and elders of the county et Down. stating,
that so 'fur from their being heetile to the Lill, that if they teem
called en 'o express au opinion on the subject, it would be decidedly
favourable to the Catholic Claims. This paper sal signed by 139
Dissenters of Ulster. They called on the Home to abolish all
civil disquanficstions ; they declared their most ooqualitied dis-
claimer of the semis:mem; imputed to them, and expressed their
astonishment that any one individual could veuture •o come forward
as their organ. There were many names of the tlrst respretabnity
signed no the pap:: scot Cne of the aiirne4 was that of the

present High Sheriff of the county of Down. It was a circum•
stance worthy of renserk, that a gritleman of so high a rank as that
individual rot only wished not to exclude the Catholics from die
possession of their just rights, but that he should come forward
to bear testimony of the growing feeling of the Protestants towards
them. ffiuch conduct was worthy of the Fresh) teriana of the North
of Ireland.
'lnc several petitions were ordered to be printctl.
Sir F. 1117:1DE'17 presented a petition from Falmouth, in
Cornwall, in M. our of the Catholic Claims. The Hon. Baronet
presented a similar one from Lewes, in Sussex.—The petitions were
ordered to Le printed.
Mr. SCAR LETT said, he rose to present a petition in favour
of the Bill for Catholic Emancipation, which, though not so nu-
mercusly signed as some which had been that night laid before the
House, yet he would venture to assert, contained as great. if not a
greater mass of intelligence in its numbers, than any one petition
which had ever teen brought under their notice. It was signed by
a very small number,only 183 persons, but he would say, that there
was not, either in or out of that house, any other set of men of
equal number rho were, from their integrity, their einenity, their
knowledge, or their extensive acquaintance with public affairs', bet-
ter qualified to give an opinion upon this question, uninfluenced
by any private or political motives. It was a petition from 183
Sergeants and Bounders of England, and as it was not worded at
any great length, he would take the liberty of reading it to the
House. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman then read the
petition, which stated shortly that the undersigned Sergeants and
Barristers. sincerely attached to the laws and constitution of the
country, were of opinion that it would mainly conduce to the pros-
perity of the empire, if the rights and privileges they enjoyed under
that Constitution were extended to their Catholic countrymen, and
they therefore prayed that the civil disabilities under which the
Roman Catholics laboured might he forthwith removed. Al-
though thin petition was signed by 183 gentlemen of the descrip-
tion he had mentioned, he begged to say that it by no means coin-
prised theopinions of the Bar of England upon this important dura-
tion. He could speak from his own knowledge of a great many indi-
victuals, who, although they entirely concurred in the sentiments
of the petitioners upon this subject, yet from an aversion to give
an appearance of the Bar petitioning as a body, had declined to
affix their signaturts upon the present occasion. If the petition
which be had the honour of presenting was worthy of the greatest
attation, from the intelligence, property, and character of those
who had signed it, it was no less remarkable from the pare, up-
right, and disinterested motives which those petitioners displayed
in it ; for if there was any one body of men more than another
whose interest, honours, dignities, and emoluments, would be
affected by admitting the Catholics to participate in the rights and
privileges of the Constitution, he would maintain that that body
was the Bar of England. (Loud cries of "Hear, hear. hear.")
Another thirg he would allude to while upon this subject ; he
meant the circumstance of which the House must be fully ap-

prised, that the profession of principles, such as were contained in
the petition of to-night, has not been the high road to preferment
in this country. (Hear, hear, hear.) It was not necessary to
allude more particularly to the causes of that exclusion ; he would
content himself, therefore, with saying. that the best way to arrive
at both dignity and emolument. would be to become an apostate to
the principles which these gentlemen avowed. He would ask.
then, did not these gentlemen who had the courage to put them-
selves forward on this occasion, deserve all the attention shirt
must be due to their integrity, knowledge, anti character? (Hear,
hear.) He could not conclude without expressing how much he
felt himself honoured in being selected to present this petition,
which, notwithstanding the rank, character, and wealth, repre-
sented in its signatures, did not, he begged to assure them, con-
tain the name of a single Member of that House. He must,
before are sat down, allude to one point more, and he was the more
anxious to do so, because he had heard the contrary was asserted ;
that at no period had the Bat of England contained a greater por-
tion of zeal, ability, and integrity, than at the present moment- This
ha would maintain, although he had heard it was said in high
clearers that the Bar was at present deficient in talent.—
He was old now, but he remembered when he first went to the liar
that hs members could not enter into any comparison with those of
the present day ; indeed, there were not in the whole list more than
two individuals learned out of their profession, while now there
was hardly a member who could not boast of en extent and varivy
of attainments equal to those who were then considered the most
distinguished in rank. Repeating that this petition had claims to
their attention as high, if not higher. than any which had been
submitted to their attention, he would move for leave to bring it up.
Mr. BROUGHAM did not think he would do his duty to those
who were so intimately connected with the due administration of
justice in this country, if he did not give his humble teatintpny to
all that had been stated so forcibly and so truly by his Honourable
Friend the Member for Peterborough. With respect to what had
been said by that Honourable Gentleman, on the subject of sign-
ing the petition, he could state that it had not been got up by any
concerted proceeding among the members of the Bar, but that it
had been produced by a few individuals, and afterwards adopted
by those whose signatures were now affixed to it—men who
were entitled to attention, as much from their rank and stand-
ing as from their merit and integrity. No Members of that
House, however. had signed it. No Catholics had signed it—
it was the petition solely of a most respectable portion of the
English Bar. But he would beg leave to say, that the House
would form a very inadequate estimate of the opinion enter-
tained by that Bar upon the subject of the Catholic Claims, if they
conceived that all who were favourable to that ause lead signed
this petition. On the Northern Circuit, there eisere 90 or 160
Baristens, of whom not mon than 10 Sr 50 had affixed their names,
while,to his personal knowledge, there were St os 3i more who had
expressed their entire concurrence in the views of those petitioners,
their only objection to sign being, as had been expressed by his
Honourable and Learned frierd, scruples upon the subject of the
Bar. seeming to combine together as a body. So t sat, out of the
whole body of 100 Baristers going the Northern Circuit, not above
half a dozen, certainly not 12,were opposed to the Catholic Claims ;
and he believed the same observation woule. hold good of all the
other Circuits. It was worthy of remark, how great a change
had taken place io t'ae opinions of the liar, with regard to this
question since it was find brought befcre that House. About 20
years alto, that is, in the year 1005, whin 31r. Fox first intro-
duced the subject, seconded by 31r. Grattan, the observation
would have been just, that, perhaps, not more than 10 or 12,0 n
a circuit, would have been inclined to listen to any concession,
while now they saw the great majority of the most enlightened
and the best educated, earnestly imploring that House to grant to
their Roman Catholic countrymen the rights which had been
withheld frost theta, not more than 6 in the 100, the mere 20th
part, holding up their hands against that just and neceessary mea-
sure. (Hear, hear.)
The petition was then brought up and laid upon the table.
The Earl of BECTIVE presented a petition from the county of
Meath, in favour cf the Catholic Claims. The Noble Lord said
the petition was signed by 10,009 persons.
Mr. DENNIS BROWNE was proceeding to say a few word .s in
support of the prayer of the petitioners, when-
31r. DO3IINICIC BROWNE interrupted the Honourable
Gentleman, by suggesting that he was supporting the wrong peti-
tion. (Loud iau/lter.)
The floeourab e Gentleman, Mr. Dennis Brown, then sat down,
amidst erica of "it lear, hear."
Mr. I)O3ITNICK BROWNE then presented a petition from
the Sheriff's, Clergy. and Freeholders of the county of Mayo, in
favour of the Catholic Claims. The Ilonourable Gentleman stated
that this petition had been agreed to at a very large county meet-
ing, not got up in private, like some others upon the opposite side
of the question, which he had seen lately laid before that House.
Ile wished to say from his experience, he could confirm the state-
' ment of the Honourable Member for the Queen's County (Sir H.
Parnell) that the great bulk of the Protestants of Ireland were now
favourable to Catholic emancipation, and that those who still con
tinued opposed to that measure were content to leave it to the
wisdom of the Legislature, without any further interference. (Hear,
hear.)
Mr. DENNIS BROWNE supported the prayer of the peti:ion,
and expressed his hope that the time was now arrived for putting
' an end to all religious and political distinctions.
The petition wan then brought up, laid upon the table, and or-
dered to he printed.
Lord NUGEN f then rose and said, that he moved for leave to
bring up the petition of the Roman Catholics of Great Britain.
That hotly, consider. ble in number, elevated in station, elem.
plary in character, aid deeply aggrieved in being shut out from
an equal participation in the Constitutional rights of their fellow-
subjects, now approached that House with renewed and sanguine
hopes of their being speeddy restmed to freedom. With hopes,
founded as well upon the progress their cause had already made,
as upon the hands in which in which it 'Sad been placed—the
hands of the man (Sir Francis Burdett) in his conception of all
others the best qualified to advocate the freedom of his fellow-
creatures, they feel that a cruse of justice, freedom, and liberality,
in his hands must, from the sincerity, energy, and power, with
which i: would be advocated. overpower all opposition. lVhatever
might be the result of the discussion this year—and he mentioned
this year, because he agreed with an Hon. Friend, that the opposi-
tion to this question was now reduced, on the part of its oppo-
nents, to a mere calculation of whether ore or two years shall be
the duration cf the evening life of cruel oppression and hazard-
ous injustice ;--he must repeat, that whether this year was to be
the last, or whether bigotry and intolerance was to linger on for
another, still that emirent person (Sir Francis) was entitled to the
gratitude of the Roman Catholics, for having advanced that cause
in the opinion of the people, by the exemplary temperance with
which he introduced it to the notice of the House; and by the
talent and judgment which had enabled him to raise the popular
sentiments nearer to his own. The petition was signed by 32,000
persons; hut he did rot mention that because he attached any im-
portance to there being a few names, more or less, out of the 200.000
( 'athoi ics of Englend.or because he t hop ght that a want of a few names
more or less, would detract from the moral and )ethnical Injuitice of
refusing their prayer ; nor did he advert to the illustrious names
who had signed the petition. others ise than to show that, under all
the circumstances which heed been brought forward to influence
them—under all the oppositien of the Protestants, these petinoneis
had not been deterred from coining forward to do their duty, in
edvocating what they conceived to be the rights of themselves and
their at tiering rotuttrymen. The Noble land here alluded to the
connection between the lrish and Itratlish Catholics. nod made
some obsereatiOns upon the. distingoished penoss examined before
the Co:online?, but from the continued noise is the body of the
House we were unable to catch their precise meaning; indeed from
I this circumstance, and the NobleLoru's habit of dropping his voice
at the conclusion of a sentence, we wen obliged to conjecture the
tenor di Many of his observations. Tee Right Honourable Seers.
tary for the Home Department had said he wadi rest his opposi-
tior. to the Catholic claims upon the terms of the treaty of Lime-
rick: Ha (Lord Nugent) hoped to hear the Honourable Member
fir Westrrieteterreltly to the Right Honourable Secretary upon

that subject. He would rest his support of that treaty upon the
terms of the 9th of King William, the very preamble of whicis
supports the terms of that treaty in every particular. and
until the terms of the treaty be forgotten, they must stand before
Ireland as unprincipled oppressors, gill discussing and still deny-
ing to fulfil their obligations. Ile would not so far insult the Il-
lustrious petitioeus on this occasion, as to attempt any vindication
of their conduct against the impotent calumnies by which thew
opponents nought to silence their coniplaiuts. Their unimpeach-
able fidelity and loyalty, through years and centuries of persecution
and obloquy, was a triumphant answer to all accusations. The
despair of the English Catholics. and the existence of the Catholic
Aesociation,which had been lately suppressed, might be dated hour
the same time, because they were produced by the same cause—
the refusal of that House to admit the English Catholics to the
privileges enjoyed by the Catholics of Ireland. But although they
now united with complete reciprocity, they had no other Sestet tbao
to give religious freedom and perfect toleration to all persuasions,
even to the utmost extent, to those who had ungraciously and un-
generously petitioned against them. They pray only to be relieved
from oaths which border on idolatry, and which are at variance with
common sense and our own religion. They pray to be relieved from
the oaths against transubstantiation, an article of our creed, which
it should be recollected Elisabeth would not allow to be questioned.
and for denying which Henry V 111. dragged several persons to the
stake. They pray for relief from those relics of barbarous times.
and belonging to a different state of society. It had been charged
against these noble persons that there was ground of alarm in
giving them political power, from their subservience to the Pope.
Let them look, he would say, through English history, in titres
when Popery was more powerful than at present. Let them look
at the statutes of Morn and rremunire, enacted solely to op-
pose the Papal influence, and then say what danger is
to be apprehended. Let them look through all the statutes.
and say if the ancestors of these noble persons have not re-
Fisted with their utmost power all attempts of the Pope to
interfere in any manner with our laws and constitution.—
He was desirous before he sat down, of adding one word with ea
apect to the Jesuits, the revival of which order seemed to have ex-
cited a considerable degree of anxiety in the minds of some
He had, in the course of this Session, for the first time heard
attributed to that body that they were friendly to arbitrary power.
As to the apprehension that had been raised from the restoration
of that order. he believed that the Pope had not sanctioned or per-
mitted the re-establishment of, that ordee in this country. But
though he had done so it would not beetitt him a ground of objec-
tion. but he would say to all those who weft jealous of the power
of the priesthooi, or who dreaded their influence—dissolve the in-
fluence cf the priesthood by the concession of political power to the
people. (Hear, hear.) To effect so desirable an object, they
should pus the Bill of that night. There was a prevailizainiou
l
now that it should pass, and a few years after it bad and
after they had contemplated all the advantages that would flow
from it. they would look back with regret on the past cruelties
they had practieed, and on the opportunities of passing this mea-
sure which they had deferred. Every man who now heard him must
be aware that the present system should come to a acinse. (Hear.)
Nor was there a man who heard hint, who, had he it in his power
to do so, would re-enact the laws which it was now sought to re-
peal. (hear.) In the consideration of this question it was Im-
portant that they should bear in mind the pledges which had
been given to the Roman Catholics on this question. Hector
Duigeoan, himself a Roman Catholic, though he subsequently
abandoned that faith, in 1797 wrote to the following effect
on the then projected measure of a union :—" That if by such
a measure the people of both countries became one, the preponde-
ranee of Protestants would be so great that no further necessity
would exist for imposing restraints on the Roman Catholics." Not-
-1 withstanding that declaration, when he subsequently became a
Member of the Imperial Parliament, he evinced the most marked
' hostility against the concession of political power to his Roman
1 catholic countrymen. A pledge of relief was communicated by
Mr. Pitt to Lord Cornwallis in 181)1, and through him to Lord
Fingall argil tc the Catholics generally. He hoped they would take
this pledge into consideration that evening; they could not now ex-
-1 pcet that the Roman Cethelic religion would be extinguished; the
hope of its dying a natural death must now-be at an end, and, by
resistance to this measure, they were only accumulating motives to
induce the Roman Catholics to adhere to their faith. The longer
they delayed the measure the greater would be the difficulty of Car-
rying it, and the greater the difficulty the more absolute the neces-
sity of speedily adjusting it. The time was peculiarly favourable:
that which he demanded as a right would be received by those for
whom it was intended as a favour and a boon. If the present laws
against the Roman Catholics affected but one individual in the
coentry, lie would plead fur their repeal ; but when they affected
six millions of his fellow-subjecue lie the more earnestly besought
the House to do themselves and the country an inestimable benefit
by doing justice to the petitioners.
Mr. J. SMITH was desirous of offering an observation on this
petition, merely with a view of calling the attention of the House
to the character of the body which they prescribed. lie had
known many of them and watched their general conduct ; and he
could safely say that there was no class of society (with the excep-
tion perhaps of the Quakers, than which perhaps there was no
more useful members of the community more remarkable for their
probity, their industry, and their worth.) They were not found to
swell the list of bankeupte, bat were found engaged in pursuits
of successful industry. If called upon hr eou'd prove this shwa
tion but he believed it would be generally admitted, and therefore
he deemed it must unjust that such a Claes of persons should be
shut our from the enjoy. :nem of civil rights.
Mr. ROBERTSON said that his sentiments towards the Irish
Roman Catholics had already been frequently expressed, and were
generally known. He still entertained the same sentiments towards
them. But he looked toward,. the Roman Catholics of this country
with quite a different eye. (Coughing and some confusion.) He
would vote for the Emaecitation Bill of the Hoe. Bert but hoped
some clause would be annexed to prever t Roman Catholics from
sitting in Parliament for Engeeh counties or boroughs. [The
coughing of Members here became so general, that the further
observations of the Hon. Member were quire inaudible.]
Mr. COKE presented a peti:i n hem the Archdeacon and
seventy-two Clergymen of the dioccss of Norwich. To the Ventre
able Bishop who presided over this dioccas, the utmost praise was
due, and most happy should it make h m(Mr. C.) were it permit-
ted him to congratulate hint on the sucess of that question, which
he had for se many years so earner. tly &deaf ated. (Hear, hear.).
He was aware that another petition fad been presentee in another
place from a portion of the Clergy of Norfolk, tie favourable to the
great anti necessary measure. The os: exertion was made to get
up that petition ; it was the result of log prey ions prfpnration. anti
much activity. Passion Week, and even Good Friday, was de-
voted to the procuring of signatures; the petitioners, it was to be
presumed, supposing according to the proverb, "'l he better day
the better deed." Tim petition which he hal now the honour to
present, was only in progress for seven days ; it was calla(' forth by
the exertions of those who presented a petition on the other side,
and but for which there might have been no petition at all from the
diocess. He was happy to take this opportuniry of expressing his
concurreece in the sentiments of his Honourable Friend, the Mem-
ber for Norwich (Mr. W Smith), as to the liberal, tolerant, and
enlightened sentiments entertained eat es question by the Linen-
tees of Norwich. He wont I not further trespass on the attention of
the House, than by reading the prayer by which the petition con-
cluded, in which he meat fully al/42-reed, " that the preservation and
welfare of the Protestant religion, the stability of the Church, and
the respect and affection towards its Ministers, were best secured
by the rectitude of their doctrines, and not by restraints on those
who may differ la opinion front them." (Leith cries of " Hear,
hear.")
Mr. WODEIIOUSE bore testimony to the respectability of the
petitioners, and fully concurred in the sentiments of his Hon.
Colleague, and with those of the petitioners. Ile regretted that
in some petitions which were presented against this measure the
question was regarded rather as one of controversial policy than as
one of great and important legislation. Ile thought the payer of
the petition was highly laudable. [Here the lion. Member read
the passage from the petition which lad been read by the Hon.
Member who preceded him.l These sentiments were highly
worthy of the petitioners, and for them he was desirous of ex-
pressing towards them his most grateful acknowledgments.
Lord MILTON concurred with the lion. Gentleman who spoke
last, in the expression of thanks to the petitioners, for the highly
creditable and liberal sentiments contained in their petition. He
was the more desirous of doing so, as this petition presented a
gratifying contrast to many petitions from the Clergy which had
been laid before the House. They sought far the most part to esta-
blish the pre-eminence of Pmtestentisin on the ground of the ex-
clusion of those from civil rights who differed from them. In
doing so thee abandoned the high ground on which he wished to
see the Protestant religion stand. (Hear, hear.) It was not front
any attachment to the Roman Catholic mode of worship that he
supported this Bill ; but he was, he conceived, more a Protestant,
and a better friend to the interests of his religion, by opposing ex.
elusion, than those were who sanctioned it. The withholding
few paltry political privileges from those who professed a different
mode of faith from us, was an unworthy way of maintaining a
national religion, and was degrading to the character of the Chute:
of England. This exclusion operated as a positive persecution, lo-
be held it to be the right of every subject of this country, accord-
ing to the constitution of it. to enjoy the protection of equal laws.
The enactment of any law that withheld that protection, was at,
infringement of his right, and pro tango a persecution of hint
(Hear, hear.)
The petition was then brought up. and ordered to be printed.
CATHOI.IC EMANCIPATION BILL.
Sir F. BURDETT moved the order of the day for the second
reading of the Catholic Emancipation Bill.
BroAxiwarn. soit:(f)ruomw
stahilei,oopardlrveur,
ooff
aftertthe
ih get
the allyHouse"bra c o moved, the
eda dfa sonice(l . m Mr.i
elutes, rose. He assured the House that it was with feelings full
of the seriousness of the subject--of deep anxiety as it affected the
interests of his country—and totally divested of past recollections.
that he came to the consideration of this most awfully interesting
and painful question. &gore he proceeded to the consideration of
it, there was one sentiment which he felt which he would not dis-
guise, and which he believed was !centrally entertained by the
House. It was this: that "eireuniscaoted sa we are in Ireland,
we cannot remain." (Cheers.) The condition of that country
truly disgraceful, and was fetch as to render life there truly misa
or other should be dome; the
?able. It was tom anti divided by two great religious parties,
which were in a state little removed from that of actual content
cifrsoinceiteiel:;iteoistooatfhiceenhhhteahwo tner.
canna
.thetatint,otnitoheHnlpear,etarsaro.;u:etliing
ealla hear.)ao nwnhto principler lars'ertt to be
to b relieveeoitl:snthe
laws
?t
that
nb:t:tare:td.
passede
at a former period, neither can we stop where we art;
let us go forward on the pi iteipk of concession. (Loud charts.).
He Yee* it war the rowel feeling in Ireland that a vicar) pea.