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London, England, 1821-02-13 00:00:00

cent hunched., excluding all the corporate towns less an overtuling necessity could be shelter), he
therein(and their jurisdictions." should wish to adhere to the usual rules.
Mr. Pllttl.l.ros thought the; every Member in Mr. %Viet perfectly concurred with an Han.
that Honsii was the representative of the whole corm Member who stated that the irons, woollens, cot-
try., as well as the individual plies he represented. tons, and all other commodities, should be tepee-
That House should not be a control on the people, seated in that /louse. He advocated • good eco-
but for the people. 'But we have been a control Homiest Reform, and if he knew any thing of the
on the people. We have limited and restricted Constitution, he thought the best mode of recon-
their constitutional rights, by preventing them I citing the people to taxatioo was by giving them a
from assembling to discuss questions connected voice in the choosing representatives. Ile wished
with their public interests. And whet is it that tbat the franchise should be extended to the great
the Hon. Gentleman opposite proposes ? le it to manufacturing towns. The misery sod sufferings
remote the franchise to some distant district, where that prevailed there were unknown to any but those
they would not be infected by the contagion of who visited them, and if Ministers were better ac.
Grempound ? No; but merely to remove it to 11 quainted with them, they would pursue a very
neighbouring district, where the corruption of different conduct.
Grampouod was known, and might be practised.— Mr. Witstor thought it was not acting quite
He thought it a great misfortune that such • vest fairly to mix up other questions with that which
portion of the people should be excluded from the was before the House. He regretted that those
right of voting. The lion. Gentleman opposite large mantufacturitig towns had not the right of
had referred to the population of those districts to voting. He saw tun constitutional objection to it ;
which he wished to transfer the francliite :he wish- hut there was a difficulty in doing it all at once.
ed the Hon. Gentleman had referred to the pope- Precedents were iu favour of extending the frau-
lation or the oilier districts. Ile stated that the chise to the hundred.. He felt great compassion
county of Cornwall sent forty-four Members to that for those who in the midst of the corruption that
House, which was about the el-Tenth part of the prevailed in Grampouod preserved their integrity.
whole representation of England : then compare Their case was hard, but it was unavoidable. He
the relative wealth with respect to Yorkshire and concluded by stating, that if the motion of tine
1815 the real properly of COlll- Noble Lord underwent some modifications, he
wall was about the 45th past of all England, Lin- should support it.
towline about a 16th, Yorkshire about the 11th.— Mr. Bitacoe BATHURST observed that *he
Ile must confess, that of the two plop/notions that House was auxious to remedy the defect, and al.
were suggested, he gave • decid d preference to though he was anxious this grievance should
that of the Noble Loud. He thought that the re- not remain unpuiti.lied, still he should wish
presentation of the manufacturing interests should to look to its ultimate tflect. And what would
be most diligently attended to. Hr was pep voided he the consequence if the step they were about
that much of the &icordents that prevail amongst to take were nut authorised by precedent ?
the manufacturing districts would be removed, if The Noble Lord had recognized the principle on
they had a proper mode of stating their grievances which the House had acted on a former occasion,
to the House through their Representatives. It was of amalgamating them with the adjacent counties:
quite impossible ti.ut reform must licit lake place, for himself lie felt the grievance, which being so
some time or other. The Hon. Member then al- fully established, he would wish fur an example
lotted to the great iiictease of intelligence since and a terror to others. Upon the whole, lie would
the period of the Union, sold concluded by .tats support the proposition of his Friend behind him,
jog that lie should support the motion of the Noble fur transferring the rights to the adjacent hundred,.
Lord. A Member (whose name we could not learn,
Mr. GURNEY would support the motion of the who spoke from under the Gallery) said,
Noble Lord. He should like to know what Coin- that Grampouod haviiig by its gross corruptiou
Will hid done to deserve to have the representation forfeited its franchise, the question before the
transferred to it. (louse was, how should it be disposed of to the.
Mr. WARD observed, that no man could wit- greatest advantage to the Constitution of the coon-
ness the great manufacturing towns without per- try ? lie considered the most constitutiocul mode
ceiving the great inconvellietice which they 1,111; would be to tiseisfer the representation (in cases
honed for want of representation. This iticonve- where forfeiture was so justly iticuried) to popu-
nieuce was not vague or iningiiiwy, but a real lons places. if the cutrupt and rotten bo-
practical one. When 111. y considered the tor- toughs had been transferred to i.opulous places,
tunes of so loony commercial !tyro *roe at stake, would any body believe that such a sysreM of
he thought it must appear that there was a prima enormous taxation would have been supported in
facie necetrity that they aim mld not be inch- that House as we had lived to see ? Iti giving Isis
redly represented, but by some person Mime: support to the measure of the Noble Lord, he
diately under their view, some one ou whom they wished it to be understood that he was supporting
could depend to represent their iiiterei.ts. But the principle wore thou the measure itself.
it is raid we cannot do that wiliout setting a Mr. LUITLETON said, that when a case of fla-
dangerous precedent; we ca tttttt t grant th it claim grant eori option conic before the House, he thought
without itineasing the 31euther• of the House of it fitting that it should at once be wet with condign
Commons. But inc contended that when they had die punishment ; for if when a cave of corruption was
Olean, In Ilror hoods, amid were considering how they clearly established, the House should be adopting
• should dispose of the franchise, it then became au palliatives, the honest feelings of the country would
imperative duty to do it. Now mattlsiough he cer- be dis pounded. At a moment like the.prevent,
Witty thotight that the contory ge.bilamen formed the House could trot do more wisely than-Soothe
the'twost respectable body in that House, yet he the honest feelings of the country. The Noble
Might be allowed to ray, without any disrespect, Lord's measure was direct and simple :it gave
that they were not the persons qualified for 11u sanction to any
.untried theory—it proposed
the detail. of business iu that House. If a no addition to the numbers already in that
change were to be made at all, the manutitc- Houte—it could create no alarm. but at the
toeing town. should get u direct representation. mine time was a most efficient remedy, and would
He thought that all their interests should be re- serve as an example which, if followed, would
pragserited —their boo, wool, and all their other preserve the country from revolution for many ceo-
commoditie•, So usueb hunt been already said 011 turns. Ile tl.d mint wonder at the partiality-of the
Me subject of Parliamentary Reform, that one is lion. Member fur Bothnia ; but he could not see
ashamed to talk itsolit it. "ritry are told that there why Cornwall alone should be blest with the dews of
never-were times when the represeutattou .1 the electioneering grace ; and he considered that the
Country was in such a state as the prevent, and measure was peculiarly desirableat the present time,
several other things of this *Oil, • but it is being so calculated to restore that House to the
an absolute chimers to speak iu this manner. confidence of the country, if it were true that the
Oar ancestor', notwithstanding all that has beets House stood in need of it in that point of view.
1141.1 AL different times about thew, would not be at Mr. SCROPE MORLAND spoke a few words; but
all vurpeised to see tine boroughs exist at ()resent; was not audible its the gallery.
but they certainly would be much swrprnod to tee bold JOHN RUSSELL raid the Honourable Mem-
large towntr, time times the wise of their London, her for Bodinin, iu endeavouring to combat an ar-
not send Members to the Perlialuerd. After all, gement of has, which lie had urged out a former oc-
what is the great. defect of our Comatituticni erasion, that Cornwall was so fertile in Members of
What strikes .us •at first light is the utirepre- Parliament, stated, that out of the 44 Members,
sewed stele of the. mantifactoriog towns; and oily five were 'actives of Cornwall. In answering
it would certainly require an accurate Mewl- one argumeut, the lion. Member had favoured him
gallons into the less obvious' pails of one Conalie with a better. and he really lluought. 'weep.
tutiois. to prove that this is riot a great evil. tiers of the Hon. Member himself. there would be no
Ile was at a kiss to know on whet principle one found that would fix the two representatiers•in
Lis Hon. Friend would wish to extend the fisuchise Cornwall. The Right Hon. Gent. (the President of
to the hundreds adjoining. He•could mint conceive the Board of Control) had 'Palmated that be (Lord
by what necessity throe hundreds became heirs to J. Russell) had beau guided by the consideratiou
the deceased borough. Ile .tln.refare could not of the Peuryit case, but hr could iufurw him that
support the motion of his Hon. Friend. he had not taken that at all into his coosideration.
Mr. WYNN would not elite. ion the question What he was proposing wits new, indeed, but it was
of Parliansentry Reform, nor would lie assimilate accordant with the best principles of the Coostite.
the House to the Cortes, looming .a 'Deo' Cotistitu,- fion, and would go to form • precedent on *lnch
lion. Ile was not aim advocate fur i chatige. he was that House might act in future. Hat considered
quite satisfied with things as they ate ;- but he that it was ow soduleteirce granted by the. Usll to
agreed with his lion. Friend Who had just sat pet mit any of the burgesses of Grampuund to vole,
down, that when au absolute necessity for a as the borough bad, by its notorious corruption. for-
change took place, then indeed it should be felted all its rights; and, iu fact, from time evideuce
done in the best manner. There was no Mem- it appeared that there were only fire or six of the
tier in tine Hiiuse (with the excel:boo of the electors who bad not been bribed. He believed
Member for Galway) who had 'attempted to defend there were persons in the couutry who would be
tie borough of Grampouod. would Dot, how. glad if the Bill were thrown out by that How, as
ever, commit the mistake which en lime Metither it did not go far enough, according to their ideas of

had done, in stating that that borough was always
under the influence of an iudividisal. That Iris
not the ease; it war abrupt corrupt, sod it war
always under the influence of the heaviest purse,
Like Mr. IVilkes,_ who, at the time he was the
idol of the mob, said. that the only advantage he en-
joyed from his popularity war, that the good peop'e
ul Aylesbury did him the fa our to sake his pounds
in preference to any body el.s.„ He did oot sup.
pose that this measure would satisfy the cry of
Parliamentary Reform. If this larrirugh be
franchised, they will call it mere mockery. How.
ever the House must remain content with dis.
charging their duty stud doing the beat for their
country.
Mr. Host N tote said, that the qoestios was, whe.
titer the House would now depart from the modest
had always exercised in puoishing delauquent bo-
roughs.' It peculiarly hard on some indivi-
duals in that borough, who it. the midst of corrup-
tion pr d their integrity. He thought, how-
' ever, the House had better decide uu the question
at. the preseut glop than iu the Committee. Uu.

reform ; but he was not one who so thought ; on the
contrary, he was always desirous that the House
should adopt every measure that would support its
character.
The Amendment of Mr. D. GILBERT was then
put from the Chair, and negatived without a
division.
Mr. BEAUMONT said, that although ha had but
small hopes of his proposition being adopted by the
House, be thought it his duty to submit it for
their colisideration, and the Douse would deal with
it as they thought fit. The Hon. Member con-
chided by moving, that it be an instruction to the
Comaiittee to morn • clause for transferring the
right of sending two Members to Parliament to the
North sod East Ridings of the county of York.
Mr. N. CALYERT seconded the motion.
Mr. STUART WORTLEY said, that as undoubt-
edly the (Isar against Grampound had been fully
made out, the question now before the House was,
to what place it would be most advantageous to the
country to have it transferred. Averse as he was
from all plans of Parliamentary Reform, as Par-