The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1805-06-13 00:00:00

HOUM commoNs.

Mr. CREE.Vh:Y rave entice of a minion for tomorrow for
the each isip of Liv• ,44 the Middlesex Eketiors.
Al Account pas Lid tyon the 'Table, pursuant toorder,
of the proceediiik of the CUIOIIII/14U11011 appointed for the
Redempt:on or the I.and Tax.
Lord GLINIIERVIE hrou7ht up the Rill for the better pre-
servation of Abe Timb-r and Fweits, which was mid a feat
fiil3o. Tile Woollen Manufadurers' Bill, and the Corn Rill,
atop atop rut.l a font time
Mr. GILES moved for lease to bring in a eat fur extending
th. Lines wow in (nice for the Punishment of the Forgery ut
Bark Notes azid Rills of Exchange to every part ol the Elaited
Kingdom.
Tut Report of the emsrnittee on the Petition of the Duke
of A,thol, tespeLting the Revenues of the Isle of Mau was
brought Up ; aftt, some conversation belie... en Clonal
Stanley, Mr.Curw et, cart Mr. Storges, Ratline, the Report
was utderevl to be Laken irtsa conuderation on Wednesday
next.
A wisage from the 'Lords, sated their Litodektps had
agreed to the Horse Duty 'Farming ISM, the Paymaster of the
Frwers Regulation Bill, the Auditor of the Public Acownts
Regula•ion Bill, WeAern's Clouse Hill, a.id to several Pri-
vate Si',
*mingling Pmventiott flit was reported, and the Port of
Loncloa Improvement Bill was real a sec.md time.
Th t Itarra, k Maiter's Land Investment &11, and t',e Sad-
el ith Manufacturers Bill, were read a third time and
The Report of enc Keliard Fishery Bill was ordered to be
reterret to a Committee tithe whole Mouse to .morrow.
The C tasting R.g.ilation Rill, the Lottery Rill, the Crinan
Canal 831, and the Irish Paper Duty C illection 8.11, were re-
portid, atil ordered to be r•ad a third time tomorrow.

Mr. ROSE moved for a Coan•niit •e to ecinsder of the Er.
portasi wt of %%rot from the Bonsen Pierwatheur to the Unite!
I butes of Ain* see.
sea the At so fur the third reading of the (rids C0:W.114-
' sinners Revenw,R.l. a c•l4l:lrvitiOrl tak ',tree betw-en
Fitzgered I. Mr Esiete.r, Mr. Vanittart, Sir John Ne vpurt.
' sod Mr fileaturi Her which the till was read a thud time
and pauwel.
Codierd CR.tW lJit naoeel that there be laid before the
hoses • a List of the nwribesr Soldier m th•e pay of the East
Podia Company, who had retartred to rnglaiut iu era .s.saise..ee
.1 their hue of serve- besoe o-!?ired In the yeari, 1714 and
• 1795; also, of Mc number or Recruits sent oat to India during
these yesw.
Mr GREY deterred his M•st:on respecting the state of 0 .r
r r •igo Alliances from Worlitedly to Thor... Lay Ws:wig:it.
The other Orders of the Day were postreined.
LOW VISCJI/AiT MELVILL7.
• ILt, LEICESTER moved the Order of the day
for resuming the. Adjourned Debate respeCting Lord
Viscount Melville, on the Amendment proposed by
this Itigikt Hon. Gentle:luta (Mr. Bond), •
4.e Admarory G weral be direciod au Cofin)611011 a
Prusicsationassiro Henry Lord Visconti.. Afelside,
110!‘theratia.af iptrlut•-s, Zr.. 11 li,par, (runs 1,4 e Said Report, to
;heed b wit eousitittedrlty the sari Hefty Last Visraiu.it %lll-
ind that Use Attetowy-Genrral bW all° Mayeed t rue
preeead•ngs If AV, Citil Sate inst.iated aaelnw the said
.11enre 0,4 Viscount Midvale, rtspectiug mattsas ditedried in
the and Tenth Report."
Mr. LEICESTER said that he rose fur the pur-
• pose of stating the grounds on which be should con-
sitter himself in the disc:large of Iris duty by nega-
tiving the proposition for an unrachment of the
Noble Viscount, and which the H n. Gentleman
opposite to him (Mr. Whitbread) had brought for-
' ward ; but, previously, he would remark on the ar-
gument of an Hon. Gentleman, respelling the con-
' dug of Mr. Wilson, when he refused to answer in-
ref rogatories which might lead to criminate himself.
The Law allowed him that privilege; and, upon the
whole view of that matter, and considerinz Mr.
' Wilson as an unexceptionable charaaer, he did not
think that he ought. by a dismissal from his office.
to be deprived of the means of subsistence, merely
upon that ground. With regard to the immediate
subjen beiore the House, Mt. Leicester said he was
free to acknowledge, that in the interrogatories put
to the Noble Viscount, and the Speech he had deli.
vered in that House, no satisfaCtory answer had been
giveu on several points, and therefore be thought
that further enquiry was necessary ; but beyond that
he was not prepared to go. Whets considering the
question, whether an impeachment or a crimtnal pro-
secution were preferable, at became necessary to
look back to the past proceedings of the House.--
First of all, a Vote or Resolution of Censure, and
that in strong language. was p.tssed. But.
upon la-Ain into the evidene • contained in the
Tenth Report of the Board set Naval Enqui-
ry, he could find nothing in it that justified
the charge that Viscount Melville had delivered
sums of money from the Bank, t .r tae purposes
of private emolument, to Mr. Trot e-. Viscoont
Melville, on the contrary, expressly stated. to his
rumination, that money was drawn ti OM t ie
act for purposes of private emolument to Mr. 'fro:-
ter, but for the expedience of the pub is servize.
Tlenefore, any thing of a criminal nature, upon
thus head, founded upon the supposition of a confes-
sion of Viscount Melville, he could not help think-
ing, was premature. Then followed the depriv *-
ikon of office, and that office, out of the most irn•
portant and honourable in this gauntry. viz. First
Lord e f the Admiralty—and, solo:et:Neatly, the

erasure of his name from-the het of His !Ifsitsby's
Privy. Counsellore But this nrOv not att. tS.Catlie
''29th of April last, the HouteeittoFto a reselatirtii.
direitins the Attorney-General to is a Ora
suit against the Noble Viscount, with a view of 'lit-
covering pecelati;ms of money. And now comes
the enquiry, whither a criminal prose-taints wow
not be more expedient, or whether he should not be
impeached? But he, fir one, lined n.cit help thirifj-
ing, that, after the resolutinn for instituting a dill
suit, it would be rash and inene-istent'nntir td sly
to the Attorney-General, '• You shall ret go on
with a civil suit, hut With a erinf:n i rrov-airion e.
and that, in conseqeence of what is stated in OM
k-port of the Selea Committee. He dsci.are Ifts
entertained the highest respeet (err the R'elltMiitti.
Gentleman (Mr. Bond) who had m tele thisnirridoth
at the same time, he could not :trochee age:. 40004
time the resolution passed, for the AROSitneytTene
ral to prosecute Visenniti Melville by wtielt reiftW:
was sorry to confess, he was not in his pleciiitfth'e
House; but, he onJeratesd, that it Was fonsJed
upon the evidence of Mr. Trotter.- feeler; +I P- Ms
had been occasinnaly in nettance to the Noble VA-
count, for sures, amounting front ten np es tseeniy
thousand pounds. The aniendment, which winhe
subjeft of that evening's debate, aopetted to himp.
inconsistent with the forrr.•r resnlutiCr; of
ag to file a bill of discovery Ainse the Ve
count; nor could he discern any cireurnstatiM of
sufficient mdgnitede, which had since teratein
ed, to vary from their former resolititin.' fit ode
peeted it, no circumstance bed since etetlitiel,
either unforeseen or nnerpefted ; no nevi" erfaitter
had since occurred of so crimied a nanre lis7Asierld
not have been formerly within the tefistinliett
lion of the Rau-e. The nise which wets
brought before the House, on the repoA f the Xelect
Committee, was the sten of 20,0e0r. or fl Vat.
for which it appeared, that Vis ;punt Melville had
paid interest. N.. probable good en's" arise front
a criminal prosecution open that score.—Then, as
to the two sums of 13 and 20,0'101 the Hen. Ccnr.
had stated, that Viscomo Melville rtad•Ottkipsted
in the profits of Mr. 'Printer ; het he Wished Mtn
to point oat that part of the evidence schieli nrored
any such perticip anon ; nor did he (Mr. Leicester)
believe that any such participation had existed. As
to the 23,0J01. ode half of this was confeeses"y pub-
lic money ; as to the other half, it is still ernexplain-
ed. The account which Viscount Melville
gives is certainly not setisfenery, no more then that
is which seems to rest a good deal wont, the treache-
rous memory of Mr. Trotter, awe sttpposses it to
have been applied to Viscount Melvi'"e'; private use.
If, indeed, it had been proved that 'Anse entas.lised
be employed for parprisei of steck-jeh's'ne, rd
had never been replaced. it would h tee he-ni.iglily
criminal, and amounted to an '<press peen! iiiee of
the public money ; butt the Linn. Gentlenel'a F'
self who made the original Mition, leisr4t ad%
vented such 1 charge. Inc Ripon stito-;;:o:f the
contrary, that these sums acen Illy ereeelete'e;3 to
the public, but without interest. He ifished the
Noble Earl (Temple) who last tight cor.zr:diitesi
this statement, had taken the trouble to ermine the
evidence. In page 21 of that Repast, Mr. Trotter
is asked to whom this 13,0001. had been repeid-r
and the answer is This SUM twist have beert'Anz
paid to me in my capacity of Peyntaster." Ands
after ally he woe:1 pat it to the cans:lour of:every
man in the ljot.se, whether he did not in I% eon.
science belisve that the money so "advanced had
been aaually repaid ? If thee_ sums had ant been
repaid, Viscount Melville's' crime must hay: been
silted peculation and einhezzlement of the pah:ie
;mere; whereas, he would venture to ray that the
,pubic had not been defranded so meet as
hoe sinele shilling. Much stress, hew:ever,' lad
been laid on the sublet iif the releas^
passed between Viscount Melville and Mr. "Prot-
tv. But this apnea-:d to him perfetily dear,
that it no suspicions had beett entertained of
private transecliere between them, tie ground of
suspicion would have attached simply \
trans./Eliot'. nor should he have thouglit the... Mere
was any thing ettraordinai y in it, althrinell release
nut usual was inserted in this release. A antic t 9
deliver up vouchers WAS usual in releases. How
came it, then, that instead of such a clad.e. there
should be nue to burn vouchers ? This night be re-
conciled front recallening the distant places et which
the parties were at the timeeMr. Trotter in lelnilon,
and Viscount Melville at or near Ediaburg!i ; ant
therefore it might have been done forth, ;Myna:
of saving all farther tratthle As to exeiraeging mulch-
ers. But, snpposing there had been an exttilliJdi-:
nary anxiety to have the papers destroyed, he sektuid
ask, whether this paint might nit have !teen Irene
effedually secured, if the usual covenant had bceo
inserted for the delivery of the papers, • for then the:
parties would havegot themienotheirnwn notinsteirin .
But with regard to all the cireumexeces respeding
the destruCtion of the vouchers ; this was nit sow
any new matter, for it was perfenly known at the
time the first vote of censure passel ; and therefore.:
no argument can be formed on this Emend for the
House's now adopting a new mode of proceeding.
He begged leave also to recall the recolleninn
Gentlemen, when the Right Hon. Gentlemin (Mr. ,
Pitt) had stated welt great feeling, tbat Flit Me-
jesty had been advised to strike Viscnent M.
name out of the List of Privy C.-dense:loin ; mid he
would ask whether this was not understood et the
time, as a compromise that no farther pnnish-
ment was to be ieflicted, but a proseeutiep by s,
civil suit alone ? He would ask, whether the ire-
viteble consequence of a criminal proseeutio .
would not be, that the Noble Viscount would be
doubly punished by the vi.it.eimi of as Act of
Parliament? For, he wined insist. Pion '1:, that
punishment had been ' - zesKcteel:'
cons:euence of
the House, they s
tiler prosecution. s
on it, that the Hate
And !at: le: well.'

beta AireAd.; iniEcted. Bet ;f in
the proe..e..'lnEre iireAdy held in, '
could not no* Effected to Any ftr.
. wi:boat lejsistkie, he most in.ist
louse ou4ht not- tri prosacate at aH.
▪ rec mind, wl* Vtsuckuut

f

*bilk lied alkidy iJsred. A Resolution of
censure had passed that House against him, And
afterwards was canned up to the foot of the Throne.
He had been deprived of one of the first places of
tank and emolument: he had been also struck out
of the list of Privy Counsellors, and since they: a
civil suit had been instituted, and this deprivation .4
office was not merely tempotar), whit_ the civil suit
Was pending, but for ever. But it had been said
that it was a reiioation of office, ant therefore no
punishment. But could any prison he found, who
Could seriously argue in this manner? In some coun-
tries, where the punishment of death was inclined,
the culprit was advised to take poison. Was it
no punishment, inflicted in such a case? And
was not Viscount Melville's resignation of office vir-
tually a part of the sentence of the House of Com-
mons ? If then the present question were, whether
the House ought now to proceed to farther punish-
ment ? he, for one, must say, they might not. He
remembered the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Whit-
bread's) setting out with saying. that he had no
wish to push this matter against Viscount Melville
one hair breadth beyond the ends of justice. And
Be would now ask, whether these ends have not
been already sufficiently answered? The punish-
teen: of ore is designed as a warning to others, to
*void the samefaults, He would ask whether what
bad happened to Viscount ISlelville was not a suffi-
tient example to warn others ? Let it only be con-
sidered in what a different situation Viscount Mel-
Lille stood three months ago, from what he does
how, and then he could not but think that the ends
of public justice had already been sufficiently an-
peered, in the punishment which had been inflided,
at least to as great a degree as any court of justice,
in the plenitude of its vindietive power, could well
India. Upon the whole he was persuaded. that for
every purpose of prevention and example, enough
Lad been already done.
Mr. WILBERFORCE said, it was painful to
Lim to declare, that he WAS compelled to dissent from
the caution of the Hon. Gentleman. Although he
tit, in same degree, the enahatrassmeat its which the
House was placed, still he found that the House was
bound to go forward in order to answer the ends of
complete justice. He declared he came down to
the House yesterday, desirous of divesting himself
err all prejudices and partialities, and to listen to the
NOble Lord with the utmost candour, in case any
oiling had been supplied in whieh the Committee
lad been deficient, or in the hope of hearing some
;refutation at the objealions which had been made to
his conduit. Bat the speech of that Noble Lord had
erased to couviace him that farther pi og,res, was ne-
ornery, for, in his mind, the principles on which
, had endeavoured to vindicate his concs&
were nil-ninety more injurious in their tendency
than any. sueposed amount of his connivance
with Mr. Trotter at the application of the pub-
lic money : a fair defence of his conduit, not-
withstanding the restriations imposed upon him, was
naturally to be cxpeited. But ne must own the sort
of defence set up by that Noble Lord operated in
his mind in a way far from favourable. Inc Noble
Lord, throughout his speech, acknowledged no cri-
minality, hut justified his condaft. Hehad stated that
the law of the hod bad not been broken, and he att-
empted to prove this, partly by arguing from the words
of an At of Parliament. and partly from his setae-
quent transattions. Now, with respea to the All of
Parliament, he could not help thinking. that as to its
plain meaning and spirit, it had been broken by Vis-
count Melville. It was evident that Parliament al-
most ;bought it an excess of precaution, after hav-
ing stated that the money in the Bank, voted for
Nasal Services, should only be applied to Am/ pur-
poses, to add aprohibition as to its being drawn out for
other services. And when all the circumstances were
considered under which the AEI was introduced,ii vats
evident that nothing could have been more phady
intended than that no private use whatever should
be made of the public money. For what parpose,
he would ask, did Viscount Melville receive the ad-
ditional salary of 2,0001. per annum, but on purpose
that no profit should he made of the public money ?
and if the letter of the Ad applies to the Treasurer
of the Navy, dies not the spirit of it also extend to
the Paymaster 1 If the law sa clear as to the tae, it
is equally clear, as to its spirit, respeaing the other.
He believed Viscount Melville had argued that he
was not aware that Mr. Trotter was making any ad-
vantage of the public money. How then could he
afterwards state, that this was permitted, in order
to increase his salary? (Same persons arouad Mr. W.
intimated that this Was not :chat Viouu tt Melville :d
raid.) Mr. Wilberforce preceeded, and said, that
it clearly appeared to him, that although Viscount
Melville would have denied that he allowed Mr.
Trotter to take out money from the Bank for that
specliic purpose, yet that he connived at Mr. Trot-
ter's making such use of it, knowing that the money
was so drawn out. Again, Viscount Melville kept
the oCce of 'freasnrer el the Navy, at the same
time that he had the chief dire2ion of the affaits of
India. here Mr Wilberforce repressed his belief
that we one could have aged in that capacity with
snore parity and integrity, thin the Noble Viscount
had done. lie had appointed p. ruins to high and
lucrative offices, to whom lie was personally a
stranger. and that merely on account of their ciya-
raAer and ability t and from one of these, a person
of the highest character (Lord Teignmoutia, Mr.
Wilberforce said, he had it, that Viscount Melville.
in return, had never asked of him a favour. To all
this he bore cheatful testimony. Bat as to the pre.
sent question, he must observe, v. ith regard to the
release. that there was a remarkable coincidence of
time between the burning of these vouchers, and the
precept issued by the Contehissioners of Naval le-
ipary. Viscount Melville, in his letters to the Com-
missioners, stated, that he occasionally employed
Lim-elf in horning his papers. But, instead of stat-
ing this, bow much more satisfaelory would it have
been, if, in that letter, he had candidly stated. that he
had burned these papers in consequence of the release.
But what struck his mind with the most astonishing
pi:prise respected the 10,0001.; ceucerrsing which
Visconitt Melville, in his speech, had expressly de-
clued, that be would give no account of it to the
Manse, or to any one I That a nobleman of Vie-
conut Melville's rank ; that a man of his intelligent,
capacious mind ; that holding such ao office under
the express limitations and restrictions imposed by
an exaress All of Parliament as to the holder
ccnver,ant with the laws
-•er ; one also so well
aepradeace. and tor-

•

•,
merly to much employed in Making defences for
other people ; that such a man should have formed
to himself so strange a resolution, and have openly
avowed it in the face of the Commons Wulf of
Parliament, appeared to him (Mr. Wilberforce)
so contrary to every principle of prudence or pro-
priety, that he was really at a loss to account for
this apparent infatuation of conditn I To suffer
this, would be to lay down a principle contrary
bath to law and justice, and subversive of every
rule of equity; it would be at once to say, that
he was determined to advance himself, and be-
eeme greater than the law and constitution of
the country. It was required of the King, al-
though lie came toehe crown by hereditary descent,
to take an oath to ad according to the Constitution.
This was the law of the country. In like manner, it
was pact of the law, that no money should be divert-
ed to improper purposes. But here, where inquiry
is demanded, setishadion is refused. Can secrecy
be set up as a valid plea for such refusal? It is one
of the excellencies of our Constitution, that it pro-
vides for the means of fulfilling stated duties, as well
as for occasional emergencies. It provides for the
means of vigour, and c f secrecy, in some instances,
and of publicity its others ; but that the plain law of
the land should be set aside, and the Constitution, in
its vital principles. be trampled under foot; this
surely was not to be endured. It carries our thoughts
back to that unprincipled and arbitrary monarch
Charles IL But even he, if he had indulged this
sentiment, instead of tesorting to such means as that
of shutting his Exchequer, lee. might only have en-
joined his Minister to have said, that he had spent
30 or 40,0001. of which he would give no account
whatever. Bat such principles can never add dig-
,nity, nor security to the State. It is well observed
by a foreign writer, that if the King of this country
will govern according to law, he m ay be the happiest '
of men; but otherwise, he spews himself to be one
of the weakest. Let Gentlemen only refit& for a
moment to what extent this principle would go. If
secrecy be set up as a sufficient plea of refusal to
answer necessary enquiries ; the door would be
thrc.vn wide open to all the SOW ces of corruption,
and of secret undue infinence. Viscount Meiville's
defence upon this head involves in it so much ob-
scurity as to create suspicions, and seems of too dark
a hue to bear the light. 'flat single declaration of
hie, that he never would reveal in what manner this
10,0001. was disposed of, appears so big with
danger, that scarcely any thing can surmount it.
It would enable any man to shelter himself under
a cover, which would help him to conceal (though
perhaps barely) every species cf corruption ; and it
is no small aggravation that this is avowed by a man,
not a novice, out one long and intimately acquainted
w:th the Constitution of the country ; not done sud-
denly, but for years persevered in--a sort of habit,
which seems to It lve blinded every moral and irstri-
otic feeling. With regard to punishment, Viscount
Melville's having been struck off the List of Pt ivy
Counsellors, seems to be the only Aliment hitherto
int/Red. The. vote of censure, sit idly speaking, was
nut punishment, but is ratan to be considered as
paving the way for ulterior proceedings, such as is
the present Motion for impeachment.—" When
(added Mr. Wilbetferce), under all the cin:um-
stances of such a crime, so elucidated and so justi-
fied, and brought before us, and after such a sort of
defence set up by Viscount Melville, I, for one,
would rather agree to rescind the former resolu-
tion of this House, rather than, by being ham-
pered by our own proceedings, suffer the ends of
public justice to be defeated, or the principles of
the constitution u t at defiance. if, as has been in-
sinuated, the Wet Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Pitt)
meant to prevent any farther measures against Vis-
count Melville, by withdrawing the Noble Lord
from the list of Privy Counsellors, the House at
least ought to have been apprised that such was the,
design, otherwise it cannot now have any such in-
fluence with. us, as to be a bar in the way of future
proceedings. The House aged in the former cases
according to the degree of light which it possessed
at the time. What we them knew of Lord Vis-
count Melville's conalull, we communicated to the
House of Lords; but surely this could never be
meant to preclude us from any farther mea-
sures that might afterwards be judged mess.
sary. Weighing in my mind the two modes which
have been proposed, I confess I could wish that the
Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Bond) would not
press his amendment, although I would rather
agree with him as to the propriety of his mode.
Gladly do / join with him in sentiment as to the
excellence of our criminal jurisprudence, and I
could wish that Gentlemen on the opposite side of
the House would make up their minds to adopt the
mode he has proposed ; but I would sooner agree
with them in voting for the impeachment, than I
would suffer the ends of public justice to be de-
feated. I think the Honourable Gentleman ( Mr.
Leioester), who snolce last, laid too much stress
upon the forms of proceeding, and did not look
sufficiently to the grand objetl of public justice.—
If we should thin l: than upon the whole, Viscount
Melville's crimes have not received a stifficient dee
gree of punishment, I apprel end we are not pre-
cluded from vot tag for Any ferther proceedings.
The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Leicester) has stated.
that no pecuniary loss has been sustained by the
public; but, as his been aheady remarked by one
Hon. Gel emar, the public have lost at least the ad-
ditienal sala'y of 2,0001. a year. which was granted
to Viscount Melville, when Treasurer of the Navy.
But the great loss and injury sustained are not merely,
nor chiefly in money; but the injury is, because such
a preCtice as this would attack the vitals of our Con-
steution, would open the source of compleiat, and
tend strongly to alienate the minds of the people
from the excellent pi ieciples of our constitution !"
Mr. Wilberforce then proceeded to advert to Vis-
count Melville's allowing Mr. Trotter to make
use of the public nieney, and asked whether in so
doing it would not have been natural for him to
have at least cautioned Mr. Trotter against seeking
after any undue advantage, by Stock jobbing or the
like ? But nothing of this scat scents to have oc-
curred. After all the knowledge which the House
bad now obtained, and after hearing Viscount Mel-
ville's defence ; Mr. Wilberforce said, he was of
opinion that the House had no opticu as to inet-tuting some criminal prosecution. And with re-
spelt to the 10,0001. be trusted Parliament would
still he able to trace this dark e Ira; r out through the
evidence of Mr. Trotter. This crime of Viscount
D4siville, swab TespcS to the acciet agplicatiou

• •
• ,
"f;Alethpeumrpoonsere ',whmaitgetter l.i a v evvhiet
enh
recosnpvedertetod ftooreaignny
secret service money, the case WAS quite differ-
ent ; "for in such" cases th Secretary of State was
enjoined to take an oath that such a corn had been
actually applied to such purposes. Viscount Mel-
ville still to explain upon this head ; nod his
very refusal hitherto to grant this explanation is suf.-
fic;ent to authorise the House to charge him with
making an improper use of the money. Mr. W. said
he could not agree with an Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Hawkins Browne) in thinking the present was an
improper time for an impeachment. We depended,
it was true, upon the valour and aCtivity of the
people, but, above all, we depended upon the love
which they bore to the Constitution. Any proceed-
ing then which will tend to shew them that even the
greatest criminal shall not be sheltered, will
strengthen their love for the Constitution, and there-
fore such an impeachment cannot be pronounced
improper, as to the time, whilst, at the same time,
such a proceeding is consonant to the eternal prin-
ciples of the Constitution.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that after the
speech of the Hon. Gentleman who spoke last, he
felt himself called upon to address the House,
though he before intended to wait until he heard the
opinions of some persons of high legal authority, in
opposition to what was last night advanced by the
Right Hon. Gentleman behind him (Mr. Bond).
As to the Hon. Gentleman who preceded him; he
had taken up merely the antiquated ground which
had been so often gone over an.l discussed before.
Unless some new view of the subjeA shculd be pre-
sented, or some new aggravating and substonti..l cir-
cumstances were brought forward, he did not see
why, after all the punishment already infliAed. the
House should be again called upon to proceed any
farther in this business. It was not very pleasant to
review the steps they had already taken in relation
to this charge. The general sentiment of the Gen-
tlemen opposite him, after they had prevailed on the
House to adopt certain hasty resolutions4was that the
most effeetual method would he to have recourse to
a civil process, for the purpose of endeavouring to
recover some part of die moue supposed to have been
misapplied for the public. He overheard the lion.
Gent. (Mr. Fox), whose accurate mind lie should be
much disposed to rely on, declare, that if V isc. Mel-
ville were dismissed from his employments, and re-
moved from His Majesty's councils, lie should have
no wish to push the matter further in a personal
manner, but confine himself to the recovery of the
money in a legal and regular way. Another Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Whitbread) had made a declara-
tion of a similar tendency, and said that, after mov-
ing some sesohitions affeCting Mr. Pitt, and getting
Viscount Melville removed from all places of trust
and emolument, he should propose that a civil pro-
cess should be instituted, and gave a formal no-
tice to that effete. In the mean time, Viscount Mel-
ville had resigned the high situation he then filled,
and was stfuck off the list of Privy Counsellors ;
which, though not in itself always a m suer of
trust or emolument, carried with it a degree of
dignity, of which, those who had filled, with the
highest reputation, high and important offices, must
feel it very painful to be divested. After three weeks
deliberation, however, Mr. Whitbread came down
to the House ; and, upon that very notice he gave
of instituting a civil suit. proposed a motion fur
criminal proceeding, which was negatived, and the
other, mode adopted. Ile believed, that most of
those who voted in support of the civil suit would
scarcely have been induced to Jo so, if they thought,
at the time, that a criminal proceeding would after-
wards arise from it. Therefore, sinless some new
and substantive case should be made out, he did not
think the House would consent to adopt now a
measure, which had been disclaimed in all their
former proceedings. The option they had benre, of
choosing their mode of proceeding, was no longer
open to them =and if they should adopt the two
proceedings, they would treat Viscount Melville in
such a manner, as no British subjeß had ever been
treated before, and leave in him a lasting monument
of the hasty spirit of the British Legislature. Let the
House consider. what new Charge, or aggression of
charge, was known to them now, that was not
equally known before their appointment of a Com-
mittee. It was previously known, that naval mo-
ney was misappropriated, and applied to other pur
poses. The letter of Viscount Melville, on the 4th
of June, to the Naval Commissioners, induced ma-
ny to suspect, that this misappropriation was carried
to an infinitely greater extent. than it now turned
out to be. They had made their eleCtion in favour of
a civil process, when in competition with a criminal
one—and at the time when people supposed the
misapplication to be greater than it was. Since
that time, Mr. Pitt had explained the 40,0001. ap-
plied to the purposes of the Treasury, to be the only
sums and even that, though not striAly legal, was
not, by any means, of such a nature as might have
been apprehended. They were now very differently
circumstanced, they knew the application and re-
payment of the 40.0001. that there was only 20,0001.
yet rentainins unaccounted for; and yet, without a
single additional fait, or aggravation of fan, they
were called upon to reverse their former decision.
and adopt a criminal prosecution. The chat ge ~f
drawing money from the Bank, and lodging it in the
hands of a private banker, for the sake of conveni-
ence, may be against the letter; but was not against
the spirit of the law, to the same manlier as keeping
the money locked up in the iron chest of the office,
would be in the letter against the spirit of the A.R.
On the former occasion, Mr. Whitbread made great
use of the impressions gone forth that Viscount
Melville disclosed to Mr. Trotter the secrets of the
state. in order to enable him the more effatually to
succeed in his speculations in the Alley; whereas,
now, that impression was done away, accompanied
by circumstances of manifest, strong, and convinc-
ing vindication. It was said by Mr. Wilberforce,
that the 20,0001. borrowed by Mr. Trotter for Vis-
count Melville, and which also branched into two
separate sums, because the latter refused to state the
application of one part, was a convincing proof of
a participation between them ; but, surely, he should
know, that in all governments there must be mat-
ters of secrecy and delicacy requiring the applica-
tion of public money, which could not be disclosed
without endangering the lives and safety of indi-
viduals. One Gentleman (Lord H. Petty) express-
ed a doubt whether the sum so advanced by
Mr. Trotter bad ever been repaid • but that cir-
cumstance was fay explained is ;11c evidence of

~7

Mr. Trotter himself, who ,
regularly replaced; as to the
ing money at Coutts's, or that
big it to Naval services, the t
was little or mulling, when the ,
made to a party competent to the
the time agreed upon. He bad;
commodatson was given for the
fide, though not legally, the per,
at most, be only responsible in his private property.
Viscount Melville had accounts at the Board 4
Contra& Offiee, and other places, not at all subjeft
to the Navy Pay Office Ad, in which Mr. Trotter
must have had concerns, as he was Agent for all the
pecuniary affairs of Viscount Melville. The utter
was Treasurer of the Navy before the Aa in
question, at which time he was at liberty to kesr,
the floating money where he pleased. Ile 11,14
53,00 M. in his hands before Mr. Trotter became
aicPayma sbi
yiesri,hl
oaa
hands
desawan hsbesan he
ul
abinecae
to
tinhot e
ooutA(xel oo
of o f
fptate
Parliament.
ap,mu had
eb
ni
mWhooanseinyit then to be supposed that a man like Visconet
Melville, filling the highest departments in do
state for many years, and so highly reverence)
the country for the zeal, courage, and enesg,i
displayed in support of the Constitution, in the sts,t
perilous times, would have staked the wreck of his
fortune, and his honours, for any thing so paltry,
grovelling, and degrading, as the embezzlement of
such a small stock of money, when he was in the It
pourable receipt of so much greater sums, and migla,
at any time, have whatever sums he pleased at Lis
command? If he was so corrupt, was it credible
that lie would have applied to Trotter to borrow fur
him the sum of 2:3,0001. when he might at once
have direded it to be advanced .it of the mo-
ney ? WAS it to be supposed that a man of his
alted character would have stooped to so mire :illy
and sordid a condud, and lent Ittm-elf to so mean
and wretched an expediency ? He admitted that the
circumstance of the mixed fund was a fair objea
jealousy to Parliament, but it was at most a proi.irr
subjed for civil and not for criminal proceedlr.c;.
nor did he see how the accusers of Lord Vl:C!'"i
Melville would be enabled to prove that arty part
even of the mixed fund was public property, scads
it would be necessary to do in order to found
a criminal prosecution on it—lt, was stated
last night, by Mr. Whitbread, that there were
Sti,oool. on which suspicion reasonably attached;
but, out of that, Trotter bad proved that
there were 23,0001. of which he was himself the
lender. It was indeed true, that Viscount Melville
did not last night state tie security he gave to fret-
ter for that sum ; but he did state, that it was after-
wards repaid by him with interest. This dedation,
then, would bring the suspicious sum to 23,0001. of
which 10,0301. were, perhaps, for the Loyalty
Loan, and afterwards repaid. After all this then,
it seemed, that the only motive he could have for
sinking to so vile a conduct, was the use of firm 14
to 20,0001. occasionally . The Noble Viscount asserted,
that Trotter had never advanced for him more than
4 or 5,0001. at any particular time, and if so, he would
leave it to any person, whether the occasional use of
such a sum as that was an objet of temptation to
such a man as the Noble Viscount? With resped
to the information given by him, it appeared to
have originated in the clerks at Mr. Coutts's, from
them to the clef ks of the Bank, then spin to ;mer-
cantile Gentleman, then to Mr. Raikes, from
him to Mr. Pitt, and thus, at last, arrived at
the ears of Vis sonat Ist-Iville himself. litre
again lie would ask, whether, if Viscount Mel-
ville was u illing to sell himself to perditioa
fur such a trifle, a combination of this kind, the
deteetion of which must destroy him, could not be
better managed than to let it be the town talk of
such a variety of people ? lie came next to what
he called the absurdity of the manner in which the
so much talked- fdeed of retest e was executed. It
was certainly a most notable method of
to apply first to Mr. Spottiswoode, a ma-s of most
extensive business here, and afterwards to the
greatest house of the same description in the
city of Edinburgh. Urnass the whole, be said,
that, after the most easeful examination, lw could
see nothing to call down condemnation en Vis-
count Melville, though he acknowledged that his
method of condufting his official business WAS
exceedingly unfortunate. He hoped the House
would be careful to come to a very deliberate
decision upon this subjed- -and do nothing precipi-
tately, which they may repent of afterwards. Ile
must also caution the House against being too easily
biassed by the advice of the Hon. Mover of this
question, who had already led them into a vote,
which affected, without evidence to support it, the
charader of a man, who, till the day when that fa-
tal vote was wrung from the easy virtue of the I louse
of Commons, was possessed of the confidtace of
his Sovereign, and revered by the people of these
United kingdoms. He Admitted, that a greater
collation of virtues was not to be found is
any assembly in the world, than in that wllicb he
had the honour of addressing; but which, uu•
fortunately, suffered itself, by a sudden impulses
to be impelled into a proceeding which now turned
out to be unsupported by any evidence. 'I he mode
in which the Him. Gentleman had thought propel
to follow up his first success was a proof of his pre.
cipitancy ; tor, after giving notice of a motion for 3
civil process, he, in a wed k, condemned his own de-
termination, by converting the promised motion into
a criminal prosecution. In this manner had he inuule:
ed the House of Commons in all the awkwardness
his own proceedings, and led it on step by step. ta
punish Viscount Melville by piecemeal, and irSia
its punishments upon the principle of torture. PIP
would say for his own part, that he should feel no
objedion to vote for the impeachment, if be cen>i-
dared the House of Lords a tribunal before which
it would be possible fur so innocent a roan, as he
was convinced Viscount Melville was, to obtain au
acquittal. The evidence of Mr. Trotter would sot
defend him there. The issues of the monies from
the Bank, their application to other services, th!
existence of the mixed fund, &c. wouldbe
proved ; and how could they b.: explained, or his in;
nocence made manifest, wheat the documents )sad
been destroyed ? !fa legal case was thus made ou't
a gal convift on must follow f what remedy, )sow'ever innocent, could Viscount Melville have WU*.
it? Should he even be acquitted, could the oti;
bx easil) induced to rescind its votes? and would flte.
compliance with that, resfaie him to Ins former chi
rafter and the confi Luca of the people, and Lisps d

latent' ml
rimes'

Wblo9f it al
%-i
•

ling
him

teat
e ref,
tr.av'

far a
into
011 r
Fat

ietiCe

;.
.)2
10:1 a

♦;the
on hi:

ct is ; tbat n 111.111, so ccnvers;
id constitution of his country
frerscsi iu its ciima4l jutiv

. .
- a
to •*-41 •
mself, who declareseabm `eat.
fie Service •
red ; as to the cikuresta
-dents mu s;
:outs's, or that of occasion *:: a times so
it services, the Constitution ' ; impeacl
:thing, when the aecommodatino.— 3. '
r competent to the diseharffe, of Iris 'Shim 4d
W
tut
.446,,,,t, at 4
d upon. He had;
was given for the pdllie
return.
dew ~!,
at legally, the perstht so •
,ii refera
if V iscou
y responsible in his private property: velter hin
rille had accounts at the Board Of .th tc,ie vit
t, and other places, riot at all subjeft via he'ro
.47 office Ad, in which Mr. Trotter sveeable i
I concerns, as he was Agent for all the tioo any
rs of Viscount Melville. Tine
then •
e latter al
•of the Navy before the Ad in ben inllitil
hich time he was at liberty to keep
could fait
noney where he pleased. Ile had
is hands before Mr. Trotter become these fs'T°u
oversew
id when he went out of °Ere, had was equal
dt a balance of 10.0001. of the public ;be Aloe'
scans subjeft to the Aft of Parliament. gr. G
.;
i be supposed that a man like Viscount that the
ng the highest departments in d;a geed all
years, and so highly reverencei in !base 0
it the real, courage, and energ:, be that ilst
ipport of the Constitution, in the moo siatat of
. would have staked the wreck of his -*WI a Cl
us honours, for any thing so paltry, well•ear
d degrading, as the embezzlement ti bread s
;cock of money, when he Was in the ho. House
pt of so much greater sums, and might, eassior
lave whatever sums he pleased at his acgniret
t he was so corrupt, was it credible make i
have applied to Trotter to borrow fur dna iont
of 23,0001. when he might at once possess :
it to be advanced "nt of the anhlic 'n ertitly
to be supposed that a man of h;s es. loco hi;
:r would have stooped to so misambie without
ionduCt, and lent Itirmelf to so mean on his s
an expediency ? He admitted that the vstved
of the mixed fund was a fah- objra of Daly oh
arliamcnt, but it was at most a praTer daciag
al and not for criminal proceedings ; taunt .!
how the accusers of Lord Vitcottat which i
Id be enabled to prove that any part civil la
sized fund was public property. wiaels sums el
necessary hi do in order to found fora C
prosecution on it—lt was stated into th
ry Mr. Whitbread, that there were °Sat
thich suspicion reasonably attached; Fit in
• that, Trotter bad proved that niter,
3,0001. of which he was himself the routu
as indeed true, that Viscount Melville a prop
ight state the security he gave to l'rtit. CZ4tit,
m ; but he did state, that it was after- pins,
by him with interest. This dedation, of this
bring the suspicious sum to 23,0001. of in a pi
)1. were, perhaps, for the Loyalty produ
lerwards repaid. After all this then, same
vat the only motive he could have fur anoth
rile a conduff, was the use of firm 14 was a
casionally.The Noble Viscountaseetted, tide,
sad never advanced for him more tam arts
t any particular time, and if so, he would %two
y person, whether the occasional use of a civ
is that was an objet of temptation ta led '
s the Noble Viscount? With reepet want
mation given by him, it appeared to Iry
.ed in the clerks at Mr. (outts's, from 1; ve
let ks of the Bank, then ain to *suer- I 1
:Leman, then to Mr. kaikes, from c
Pitt, and thus, at last, arrived at w -re
Vis :omit Ist-Iville himself. Hare aim;
told ask, whether, if Viscount Mel. ssora
; illing to sell halite:l to perdities peas
rifle, a combination of this kind, the coin
which must destroy him, could not be than
;ei than to let it be the town talk of befc
ty of people ? Ile came neat to what witt
a absurdity of the manner in which the raisi
ed. f steed of retest e was executes!. It ter,
a most notable method of concealment to ;
t to Mr. Spottiswoode, a ma-s of most dal
asiness here, and afterwards to the It
Ise of the same description in the whi
linburgh. Up;asi the whole, he said. of
lie most easeful examination, he could nut
to call down condemnation en Vie the
;Ile, though he acknowledged that his is v
concluding his official business was
Pail
unfortunate. He hoped the Hasse of
:areful to come to a very deliberate act
n this subjeCt—and do nothing prectp:- wr
h they may repent of afterwards. Ile kit
ution the House against being too easily 11
the advice of the Hon. Mover of this pu
ho had already led them into a vote, ad
ad, without evidence to support it, tbe Lt
a man, who, till the day when that fa- el
wrung from the easy virtue of the ilouw IA
4, was possessed of the confidence of ser
n, and revered by the people of these u;
;gloms. He admitted, that a greats ss
r virtues was not to be found is tl
1 in the world, than in that whicb he d
nour of addressing; but which, un• I
suffered itself, by a sudden impulses 1
ed into a proceeding which now turned c
;supported by any evidence. The mode h
a Hon. Gentleman had thought propel
his first success was a proof of his pre I
or, after giving notice of a motion for a 3
t, he, in a weak, condensate' his own dr
, by converting the promised motion into e
yosecution. In this manner had he involve e
se of Commons in all the aukwardness of 1
aceedings, and led it on step by step, ta l
ouot Melville by piecemeal, and Sala I
lents upon the principle of torture. HI I
or his own part, that he should feel no e
vote for the impeachment, if be ceno. i
louse of Lords a tribunal before which
a possible for so innocent a mac, as hi s
ced Viscount Melville was, to obtain an I
The evidence of Mr. Trotter would sot
i
a there. The issues of the monies hula i
their application to other services, dr 1
F the mixed fund, Sec. would be Legahr I
id how could they b.: explained, or his in;
'de manifest, when the documents 104
led ? If a legal case was thus wade otr.
via on mast follow; tuba riancdy, bow'
rut, could Viscount Melville have tee:
dhe even be acquitted, could the °lt;
laced to :mind its votes? and would the
a with that, rest tie bum to his former dia.
,Ile confil.mce of the people, Lad laillib,4 ti

his country ? him whose services and
ie so peculiarly desirable and necessary
perilous as the present. BesiJes, should
' • take place, the managers, in their
F. would have an opportunity to
with their inveinivel,.which he could
Upon the whole) a .Fjpil process was
course for both .parties, the public,
lviile thataway a man could not
;der a demurrer, unless it agreed
rules of the Court; and if anysums
ifroin Cie parties, it would he more
public, and more beneficial too,
punishment that could be inflieted on
than proportionate punishment had
'ready, and no sense of public duty
being pushed any further Upon
and in consideration of the long and
is services of Viscount Melville, he
terse to the original Motion and to

said, that though perfally satisfied
t question had been sufficiently
ac-
he could not in silence suffer the
a division upon such a speech as
leered. The Noble Lord's speech con-
parts—a defence of Viscount Melville;
against Mr. Whitbread. With some
implements, he charged Mr. Whit-
want of judgment, and involving the
• consequence of it. He would on this
how long it was that his Hon. Friend
och influence over the House, as to
recessary to caution them against his se-
'- Honourable Friend did certainly
great industry and ability ; hut he
prehended that Seth would hardly suf-
ic he had to convince that Houle,
! truths, proofs, and justice, strongly
Was impossible for loin) to have m-
all the steps they had taken, as the
which he succeeded was, that of in-
to concur in the resolution, that Vis-
_ had detest in violation of he law, to
added a notice of moving for a process at
ei be commenced fur the recovery of the
Sled. Mr. Whitbread afterwards moved
' Committee to be appointed, to inquire
h Repo-r, and the participation of Vis-
Ile in pr. fits made by Mr. Trotter.
se „ successfully opposed by the Mi-
;opus.- ' t 4releit Committee, oa the
Mr. Whitbread was engaged already to
for raring 'Visits:ll:ant Melville to ac-
process, for any participation in the
Hon. Frieiat, therefore, in consequence
maneenvre, declined havi sg, any thing to do
proceeding, which he was convinced could he
nothing beneficial to the public. The
however, was soon after taken up by
. Gentleman (Mr. S. Stanhope), who
the wrentious advocate of Viscount Mel-
whose name had never before nor since
in any division against tl-e Noble
and, in consequence, the Motion for
prosecution was agreed to. He admit-
• the Resolutions, such as they were,
• been a considerable punishment upon
feeling and honour, but could never
considered as a sufficient retribution
A esornmisted against the public. The
far from being unpreceslented. There
instances of resolutions against individu.
charges, as against Mr. Hastings, which
mere detailed reolutious, and art im-
immediately followed it; so that Vis-
ille could not be more hardly dealt with
experienced by many other Englishmen
. The Resolutions were said to be 'wed
;device ; hut there was evidence in the ad-
-1 Melville himself, as well as Mr. Trot-
: violation of the law. They also seem
spon the punishment of resigning his
diming removed from the Privy Council.
certainly some punishment, but not that
• required for the distributing the justice
antry. He alloged,4also, that this pu-
nt was ton great and disproportionate to
offence raentionedrita the Resolutions; but
he observed that neither Viscount Melville's
participation with Mr. Trotter, nor the application
.v to other services, nor refusing to give any
the 10,0001. nor the Mixed Fund, nor the
ivy Seal in the affair of Mr. Jellicne, had
made any part whatever of the charge.
these proceedings were so many losses to the
was perfcdtly evident ; for, it had been
' by Viscount Melville himself, that seven
pounds a-year could have been made
. money which had been advanced him by
Trotter. If taking the money from the Bank
useful praftice, and meant to be avowed, why
to Parliament for an act to legalise that
was heretofore illegal As to the asset t ion
had been produtlive of no mischief, surely
ame argument would have been as good for
Trotter, as it would be for Viscount Melville.
Tespea to the connivance, nothing in the world
sve been more plain, for Viscount NI.-leille
acknowleged, that he thought and believed
Trotter had made use of the money for his
• advantage; but that he allowed the Israe-
-1 consequence of the smallness of his sa-
-1 his he did wilfully and knowingly, for he
mare of the recommendation of the Fi-
Committee, that no private profit should
id- of the navy money ; had himself procured
rdcr of council to enforce it ; and was himself
the mover and immediate author of the liva
.he was afterwards the first to violate. His
amerce with Tooter was also proved to demon-
.; for though Lord Rayning had in the last
only a balance et 60001. but when Trotter
appointed, he, in one year, brouvht his L -
to 104,0001. The A& of Parliament en-
that the Treasurer should be confined to
. salary, and he excluded from all pro-
fits but the balances in the hands of Viscount
Melville (0 f ukirh he reed the atatertertt,), from
year, amounted to vast sums, and the ad-
, would only be made g Ad by the jobbing,
,toting, and other advantages made of money,
between him and Trotter. He .therefore though;
there was di-ea proof, as well as circurnstan-
evidence; of the participation. Throu7h the
• be saw a regular system of connivance, frau-
_ concealment, acs destruction of papers,
cancel the evidence of criminality. Viscount

• " •
Melville heard from Mr. Pitt, the observations
made by Mr. Raikes ; and replied to it, that he
thought no moreononey was drawn from the Bank
than what was necessary for naval services. • This
was his answer in 1797, and he thought proper to
state the same that night in the House, notwith-
standing his admission, that he thought and be-
lieved Mr. Trotter to have used the money for pri-
vate emolument. He certainly must have known it at
the very time, for he was himself in the habit of re-
ceiving daily advances from 'l'rotter. Where was
it to come from? Trotter could not afford to give
it, as he proved that Viscount Melville paid no inte-
rest for it ; and was not this alone a demonstration
of the motives to concealment ? When the Commis-
sioners of Naval Enquiry first issued their precept to
the Navy Pay Office, no notice was for a long time
taken of it. They wroteto Viscount Melville, then
in Scotland, and in six days afterwards, the 7th day
of February, 1803, received an answer from him,
stating that he was usable to furnish them with any
documents whatever, as since his arrival in Scotland
he was in the habit of destroying all those papers,
which he conceived could be no longer useful to
him. After having done this, he begged the
House to attend to the next proceeding. On
the eighteenth of the same month, he executed the
release with Mr. Trotter, which contained the clause
for cancelling those very documents and vouchers,
which he stated to the Naval Commissioners twelve
days before, that he had been some time in the
habit of decroying Was it then, after such pro-
ceedings, illiberal in any man to say, that he
could not believe the statements or assertions of
such a mac, or that there was no additional
proof or aggravation of his guilt since the first
resolu:ions, when not a p article was known of
the release before the Report of the Committee
on the Tenth Report? Viscount Melville wished
also to induce the House to believe, that the ad-
vances made by Trotter had been defrayed out of his
fund. from Scotland ; but was it possible that these
funds could have been competent to that repay-
nt, or that their increase could be in proportion
to that of the advances which rose gradually and an-
nually fromll,llool. in the first year, to the amount at
last of 19,0001. and upwards. Resides all these, it
came out that considerable sums had been invested
in the different funds, in the name of Lord Vis-
count Melville, to the amount of 90001. in one,
70001. in another, Ace. all which disappeared on hi,
retirement horn office, as if for the purpose of
making up his balances. Another matter was, the
great change of circumstances in Mr. Trotter him-
self. Viscount Melville said, that on going into the
Pay Office he found him there, poor, and living on
a small salary; but that be found him so meritori-
ous in proposing to him useful suggestions, that he
encrcased his salary, placed his confidence in him,
and made him his Agent General !—A very goad
birth, eo doubt, as his situation was soon so greatly
bettered, that he was in a condition to make him
large advances, and to continue it ever after, as
long as his Lordship continued in office. All
these things taken together, he contended to
amnont to something more tan circumstantial evi-
dence, of itself at all times sufficient to put an ac-
cused pray on his trial; but also to amount to a
complee chain of parts, which could not be mis-
taken. There remained yet to be added the com-
plete contradiaion between the two principals, who
were brought forward on this business. Viscount
M. Wile had more than once yesterday positively
and solemnly stated, in that House, that the ad-
vances mad- to him by Mr. rmtter were never more
than 30001. or 49001. at one time. Trotter, on the
contrary) asserted before the Naval Commissoners.
and the Committee on the Tenth Report, that his ad-
vances to the Noble Viscount were occasionally
20,0001. or more at a time, and it remained with the
hearse to judge which of those two statements they
were more desirous of believing ? The additional in-
formation respeßingthe secret application of 10,0001.
at the time Lord Melville was the confidental ad-
viser of Government upon Scotch affairs, was never
brought forward at all, until it was discovered by
the Committee on the Tenth Report, in the progress
of its enquiries. This he considered as forming
perhaps the mat-t prominent of the whole • and, what
mast strike every man present with astonishment, was
that though the Noble Viscount was sworn, and well
known to have frequently in his hands lame sums of
the public money, which be applied to different ser-
vices and purposes, in various ways, he confidently
and boldly declared, in the presence of them all, that
he never would disclose to aay human being the
mannerin which he privately disposed of this sum
of public money. Then it seemed, according to his
new dulirine, it was quite sufficient for a servant of
Government to tell them, with an aggravating in-
sult, •• I have privately and confidentially disposed
of this sum of public money, for your benefit, as I
tell you, as you may probably think for my own; bat
be that as it may, my mind is made up ; lam posi-
tively determined, whatever may be the consequence,
that I never will make any disclosure of the applica-
tion of this money to arty human being !" What
then could be the nature of this transaetion' which
he never would disclose to any one, even his own
most intimate and confidential friend? Who, did he
think, were to be the confiding dupes that could be
contented n ith such a declaration from any man,
but must particularly from him ? if Parlia-
ment was to be satisfied, and pass over such
treatment as this, without instituting any criminal
proceeding on it, all its boasted restraint and con-
straint and controul over the purse and expenditure
of the nation must be nothing but a farce, and all
future attempts to question or arraign the abuses of
any delinquent must be at an end for ever. After this,
wheat security could there be, that the tame abuses
an.! peculation should not he ever passing with im-
panity, and even without question before the eyes
of Parliament ? Let this be considered by way of
analogy, ani compared with the pu•iishments in.
flitted at common law, even for the most trifling
offe::ces. It would not, surely,be contended that the
greatness of a man's rank or power should be
suffered to operate as a diminution of any crime
he may commit, and yet they would find, that in
common practices, repetitions of wrongs, even less
Ireqaently than in this case, committed, suhjeEted
the offendee to no less a penalty than transpor-
tation for life ; and was Viscount Melville's exclu-
sion from office, and from the List of Privy Coun-
sellors, to be at all compared to such a punishment ?
He supposed for a moment, that petsons might be
placed in the situation of Viscoust Melville, nut

having these nice principles of honour about them.
and asked what was the probable costsetinence ?
Privately steeling, he said, was, by the law, * capi-
tal offence, while stealing openly was cooly subjea
to transportation ; what inference, therefore, was to
he drawn Suppose persons not of the nice keit*
and delicate tense of honour of Viscount Melville,
were to corm into that situation, what temptations
we .e there for them, to gratify a sordid passion?
The Noble Viscount had followed th:s praafee for
upwards of fourteen years, without any discovery ;
what an example was this for those who should fol-
low him ! What effea might such an example have
in future ? The Learned Gentlemen (the Attorney
Geaeral) had been direeted to proceed in a civil
suit; but he was of opinion, that nothing could be
made of that suit. The Noble Lord's (Castlereagh)
oblation to the criminal proceeding was, because
it was impossible that Viscount Melville could
be acquitted ; he had admitted it was a breach
of the spirit of the law; arid if the Noble Lord
was subjea to condemnation from his own aft, he
must of course suffer in his own wrong If the
matter went to an impeachment, a charge would be
made of participation of profit arising out of the
public money. If the Noble Lord had been deceiv-
ed by Mr. Trotter in the went, he would stand ac-
quitted before hls country. •As a friend, therefore,
of the Noble Lord, he asked, why not put him upon
his trial ? Considering the nature of the accusations,
the charafter of the person against whom they were
brought, ail of those who were to ennalmik it, pat ti-
cuter'', his Noble Friend (Mr. Whitbread), who
hack every time he spoke on the subjeft, raised him-
self higher in the opinion of his countrymen. If
the impeachment was not adopted, he considered the
prosecution by the Attorney Gement the next best
mode : there was such a mass of evidence, and so
strong a conviaion of participation on the pert of
the Noble Lord, that he gave his hearty concurrence
to the motion before the House.
Lord CASTLEREAGH explained.
Mr. W. DUN DAS SAUNDERS (eon of Lord
Melville) declared in setting out that he should not
enter into any very great length of discussion upon
the question before the Honsc ; he merely rose to
advert to some few points which had been mention-
ed in the course of the debate, by the Honourable
Gentleman who spoke last (Mr. Grey.) When the
subjea was brought before such a tribunal as that
House, when matters were thereon brought forward
ac matters of fea, when they were not so, Viscount
Melville had great reason to comalain. lie was ac-
cused of that peculation which had caused loads
and taxes to be heaped upon the country : this also
was false, and only tended to inflame the minds ot
the people. With respea to the assertion that Vis-
count Melville had postponed the execution of an
Aft, framed under his own particular cognisance,
for the space of six months, he referted the 11 -use
to the first clause of that Aa, where the circum-
stances were declared, and it might be seen that the
Aft direaed annual accounts to be closed on the 3I sr
of December in every year, and consequeutly
the Aft being passed in the month of June, 1785, it
could not take effea till the December foliovring.
A great deal had been said with reseed to the state-
ment of Mr. Raikes. Viscount Melville's reply, he
contended, bore a very different construction from
thas.whieh had been put upon st by the aloes& The
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Bond) had adverted to se-
veral sums of moiler standing in the name of Vis-
count Melville, in the Bank, under the head of Loy-
alty Loan and other sources. His Lordship would
willingly have explained that, which he also could
do, but it would be going into a long detail
of family transa&ion', a part of which applied
to himself, but did not by any means apply to
the public. Upon the subjea of the fetus:, he only
observed that the Gentlemen were not aware of the
preaiees in Scotland, nor open to that conclusion
which should he drawn from that circumstance.
All the Afts of Registration were inspefted at the
Quarter Sessions, and in all cases a blank was lett
for the Procurators. until such time as they should
be put in suit. With respeft to the precept front
Trotter to Lord Melville, he had male all possible
enquiries, and could not find any such, previous to
July 1804.
Mr. Boma and Mr. GREY severally explaire.l.
Mr. ELLISON wished for the dignity of Parlia-
=enc. as well as for the satitfattion of the country,
that some public enquiry should be instituted, if it
was nothing more than by way of example to others.
He therefore concurred in the original Motion.
Mr. G. VANSIT I'ART approved of a crimi-
nal prosecution, as the least expensive mode of pro-
seeding.
Mr. BANKS said that his own original view of
the subjea led him to be persuaded that any prose-
cution of the civil kind would be wholly nugatory,
end of no avail, and most, from the nature of it, be
very tedious in the proceeding; and the only way th4t
this matter could be thoroughly sifted, so as to bring
down condemnation or acclaim!, was by a criminal
prosecution. Front taking a general survey of the
subject, and from considering it with the greaten
attention he was capable of, he always thought it
must be a case of a very extraordinary nature, which
could induce him to have recourse to this mode of
proceeding ; for which purpose, he had consulted
some precedents, which he referred to ; the one
was that of Lord Halifax, in the year 1702, who
was accused of being guilty of a breach of trust, in not
examining the Teller of the Exchequer's accounts
at the end of every month, according to the pro.
visions of the aft. With regard to the punishment
to be intlieted, it had been said by some Gentlemen,
that it was a hard thing to condemn before a trial ;
that they should nut pass sentence before they had
heard the evidence on both sides; in answer to this
he would say, thareieither sentence nor condemna-
tion had passed. Before any proceedings ware insti-
tuted for the prosecution of a crime, it should he
ascertained that such crime did exist ; before
means were peweestfor a breach of an Aft of Par-
Mamma, it be sueertained that such an Ast
of Parliamall aim, and that such a breach
had taken PUSS. die ease of Lord Halifax, an
address was prismod to Her Majesty to give di-
mities's to Her Majesty's General to re.
elasee in the first humane*. This he considered
a complete precedent in the present question,
which was recorded of the Journals of the House,
and was a much stronger case than the present.
had been also seated that there was an accumalai
of punishment in this case, but he could not t"
so. As far as the House was concerned, no r

whatever had been =tied to His Majesty; but the.
Resolutions of the House of Commous were merely
laid before His Majesty for the purpose of shewing
to him what description of persons were employed
about His Majesty's person, leaving it to His Ma-
jesty to use his royel discretion upon the subjeCt,
and respeafully to represent to him that such i per-
son should not be about his person, or bold any high
official situation, or any rank or dignity, or even to at-
tend, or approach within His Majesty's presence. Ile
also adverted to the one of the Duke of Merlborough,
upon whom the censure of the House was &react,.
When those resolutions were carried, it was not with
a view to the amowit of the punishment, but such
resolteiens were gertentily the foundation for such
punishment. Ile apprehended that, if after a fair
and candid ineestigaeoe, in A regular mode of pro-
ceed:;; by tri ; it might be found that Lord
Viscount Melville had laboured under a load of
obliqny, and suffered frost the miscondeet of
others, and not ; there was nothing
whatever to prevent IL; Majesty from restoring him
to his honourable list re Privy Cteensellors, pr ivided
it did appear that he had been fully, fairly, eel
candidly cleared and acquitted ft urn those acctise-
tions. With respece to the proceeding; in the chit
suit being suspended, hi was not aware thvt sus'
one step had been taken in that ; nor did
he believe there was any progress whatever made,
or the slightest incoevenience had aeisenoither tube
Hoese or to the perties, from the institution of that
suit. And he could not etc oat single ci:cumstarce ur
the least reason to irehice the House to come to the
conclusion that no further enquiry or punishment
should take place. It was said, that there was ao
new matter before the House, but, in his orieion,
there was new matter abundantly to induce the
House to retrace their steps ; this was required et
their hands, not only for the support 4 the dignity
of dolt house, but also for the satisfaction of the
public at large ; and until the delinquency of Vie.
count Melville was established by a fair, candid,
and impartial ti Id, the country would be by no
means s trisfircl Neit'aer, he would ask, was there
any thing new is the ideate ? was nothing new
brought out, upon the further enquiry of the House
itself ? Was tecre nothing in the application of the
23,0001. But suppose, for a moment, there was
nothing whatever in all these ; what, then, was to
be said to the dark and mysterious transallion, in
the year 1736, relative to the 10,0001. ? bow was
that to be accounted for? It appeared that Mr.
Douglas was not the private agent of Viscount Mel-
ville—but, soon after elr. Trotter came into office,
he was made the private agent r f Lord Melvlle
and the Noble Lord hecatte his debtor to the amount
of 10,0001. This was the most unaccouriable
transaelion of the whole ; and he could not bear to
shut his eyes agairst such a circums7ance ; and the
only setisfaCtion they were to have upon this. sees.
that " private honour and personal convenience.'
would not suffer hits to reveal that transaltion.
Taking the whole of the question into consideration,
lie gave his hearty concurrence to the impeachment.
Mr. CANNING observed, his lion. Friend (Mr.
Bunks) had thought he aw a solution of all these
difficutties, by the precedents he had adverted to,
none of which could possibly bear in any manner
upon the present case, which was totally diFtreee;
that of Lead Heli(ere was be no meant applicidsho
and that of the Duke of Merlhoieugh 'tie less so_
la the present case, the TIE one took these steps
which His Majesty thought were in the contempt:se
lion t. earliament ; and what was at that time ea-
eiressly enders ood to be the utmost of their inten-
tions. An attack had! been made on his Noble
Friend ',Lord Cesthoregh) ler adverting to decisions
of the Ithetiee on this question.', upon a former right ;
but he had sat long enough in that House to know,
that any Menthrt may advert to cases which hey*
already been before the House.. Viscount
ye.rerday had made some admissions to the House"
which were completely misunderstood: if the ilciaie
intended to carry the iJea, that Viscount Melville Jid
connivent MeTrottersconduet, andthat he did suffer
aim to violate the laws, it was an erroneous opini..n.
What was to be the construaion put upon the ques-
tions and answers before the Commissioners of Neva'
Inquiry upon that admission ? Was it not to he in-
ferred from his evidence, that he only intended Mr.
Trotter should draw for the amount of the assign-
ments ? was not thin the sense and meaning of tie
expression ? If then this WAS the sense in which
that admissson was to he taken, it was peitt-
liarly unfortmate for the Gentleman who sup-
ported these charges, and it would become
him for his own consistency sate to take some o;s-
-portunity to c!ear it. He did not admit that a
breach and violation of the law had taken plate
what he had admitted was that he did allow Mr,
Trotter to draw out the amount of the assignnasnive
This certainly was no legal violation of the law; thw
money was drawn from the Bank of Engle.,.i
legal purposes, and lodgel in the Bank of sioers.
Coutts, for the purpose 4,f public convenient:
Mr. Couttes Bank had been substituted tor the
iron chest in his own office, and not as • Bank.
It was well kown to persons conversant with the bu-
siness, that a certain sum of :way must be made
in daily payments ; and if it were asked waether the
money were !Ater in the iron chest, or At the
Banking -house, he had no hesitation in saying it
Was eater is the latter. iscount Melville w. •
wholly unconscious of the circumstaeces until
the 'I enth Report came out. He ontended,
that so new teas had transpired, and. if not,
there were no grounds toe further proceeding.-.--
The Right Hun. Gentleman expressed great sum%
pnse that the House should, for a monitor. rare-
Lein the idea of punishing a man twice for the same
offence, which WAS contrary to the law and consti-
tution of England ; and that, he insisted, had been
done in the case of my Lord Melville Ile ad-
verted. particularly, to the two motions of this
evening. The Brat, he said, was very fairly and can-
didly opened by the Hon. Gentleman who broight
it forward (Mr. Whitbread), who had stated the
&stir& objets of impeachment, by which the
Noble Viscount would, at one glance, see with
what he was charged, and, cf course, against
what he had to contend. He compared and con-
trasted this with the motion of the Right Honour-
able Gentleman behind him (Mr. Bond), and hi
thought the former inarn:lo7 m:)re tavuarable
_ Right
his

e service of his es
alett, must be so P
times so Perilous
hment
;,e snipe-ac,
;az speeches.
rna-h-Crn again witt
, return* Upon
eferable cool
cdYr
nt Melvi
uns
Seaer himself d
th the views as
„Idse'recov ere •
eeeable to the r
aa any punishrn
th-lem• More than
- gaed altea
tree in
egsla require its t
these"grounds, a
lis
u
ensitting
ttlit equally. advert
the Ainenoment•
Mr. G KEY sai
that the preseat:
geed already, h
;•losv to go to;
delivered
ts.ited Of two part
ssail a charge aga
well-earned com
wad with want
House in the cot
occasion ask, ho'
acquired so mite
make it recessai
dußions ? His
possess both are
greatly apprehet
him, if he
without having
on hi. side. It
vowed them in ;
only oh:se& is wl
&snag them to
count Melville I;
which he added
civil law to be 7.
sums embezzlec
la a General C
ate the Tenth I
mint Melville
Bat in that he
who !we
ground that M
a proposition I
count, by civil
• tins. His H
• et this manceits
inc procecdint
produalve of
▪ same motion,
another Hon.
was always the
vide, and whc
a areareA in
tscount an,
a civil pros:cc
• eel that the
st
would have b
a a y man of f
• Eve been et
I wrongs I
• c was fat
it w rre many it
alc, and of el
vorre only n
rachment i
count Melvil
• than was ex
.14 before him.
et without evid
se misaions of 1.
It ter, of the 1
nt to rest apt
dice, and be
it WAS eels
re which was r
d, or the coun
ld nishment w
the offence
it was to he
as participatio
se If money tc
re account of
tI• writ of Pris
hitherto 171
ily That these
his public, wa
te, admitted h
he hundred ;
fa- of the mos
sk Mr. Troot
ct was a use()
Solt come
re: which wa
iu that it ha
he the same
tit' Mr. Trot
Ise, With resp
bed could has
>de himself ac
per Mr. Trs,:
re- private as
a a tiee, in c
de- lary.
nto Was aWal
nance Cc
; of he made
ta the order
1113 both the
fb which he
no COMMeSC
nsi- stration ;
iich year onl
he was app
SS lance to
sot joined. tl
rain a fired
the fits s but
ally Melville
I in- year to
baJ 14INCeS V
aliSCoollt.
between
tint; eat then
eve Uhl evict
their whole hi
dulent •
,1,1
to Caac

Home, triongnt the rortuci 1......,...
M. It Viscoant Melville. The /fight Flon. Gentleman
elation behind him had commenced his speech with de-
-1 think daring his great predileftion fix and admiration o.
address the bows of jurisprudence in this council, and, 26 3
•.