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London, England, 1822-02-28 00:00:00

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Pr`PII

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• 40.
Go the Report of the Commisiioners, there were
things in it which gave him greet pain to reed
them. ,In respect to the parties who drew it up, he
wept believe the contents of it. He lamented the
!vita. If punishment were due any where, let it

jogs ohhe Somerset Magiitrucy, as they meat to
to the reentry at large.
:Mr. M. A. net aciwittleilirsie-
ittlish*. be omit rather condemn these on the
mall shelving of the Hum. Baronet. He had reed (he
Said) the -Report of the Commilsioners with relit
pains and yet could uttribote no fault to the visit,.
ittra Magistrates. whose duty it wes•to have prevent-
etithe occurrence Of the evils stated. Offend whom
it 'might, tie (Mr. M. A. Taylor) most insist that
tltd Magistrates were t. blame. Had they done
their duty there would have been no need of the
Commission to look into the dkmp dungeons;
they wowed bane separated those imprisoned for
leaser 'deuces front the felons ; they would have
taken core that thereshonlil have been cleat teeter,
porifying air, and proper cleanliness. He had visit-
ed-leavens in every quarter of thecoontry, and se
Yee from meting the Somerset Magistracy, his ex.
etivietice er all 'other prisons and visiting
trains, led directly to condemn them. He hoped
the light Hon. Home Secretary, whore humanity
wet ft ronspicioni in Ireland, would teach those
Magistrates that the watchful eye of Government
mos ajs them. end that they could not trespass as
they, had doe, without subjecting their conduct to
the severest ettrutiny.
. Mr. G. BENIINTT was not much astonished at the
conduct cf the Hon. Rama oil this question, nor
wituld he have thought it nee . y to midmost the
House on it, but for some symptoms of approval
which were lirsanwed by a few Members on the
Annuals of the Hon. Baronet. He had forewarned
• friend of his tlett the Hon. Baronet would deny
the fact of Mr. 114111101 solitary confinement, and
had predicted the very definition which the Hon.
Baronet would give of solitary confinement. His
{Sir T. L.'s) was the worst degree of solitary con-
tistement ; hut there were others which might well
bear the .name ; one of them was, where the pri-
soner was buffered to enjoy the intercourse of his
feinly, hut only on such needling couditions and
in such atrocious compaey, that he vim compelled
to submit to the wino and moot terrible punish-
ment of absolute solitude iu preference, when the
rigour of the hew in its extremity was easier to suffer
than the tender mercies of the Hon. Baronet. lie
would have the B.,rotiet end the House to recollect
that there were no other prisons in the kingdom
where pulitieal offenders were compelled to enjoy
she society of their families in cochleae), with felons
So far from the regulations of the Ilchester prison
being general. or even resembling those of billed-
shire gaol, they were, exclueively arbitrary and
cruel. The abuses bad arisen front the entire
neglect of their duty by the Magistrates. There
was sio such thug us a rule for this mumble prison
(though the Act directed that there should be rules
drawn up for the regulation of prisons, and hung
sip for the lam-mutton of priseners) until the other
day. There was no defect of ditiy—no impropriety,
•hosever gross, which was not to be found in the
histmy of the management of Ilchemter gaol.
-Mad the Magistrates only looked into the books,
they would have rimed proofs (slough of the abuses
at every page. The rowes were full of interpola-
tions. lie thought that it would become the duty
of the House to address the Crown to remove the
visiting Magistrates from the Commission.—[Here
the Hon. Member read part of the Report of the
Commissioners of Inquiry into the State of the Pri-
am, which described the treatment of two female
prisonsra, who were shut up in solitude on some
pretence of the gaoler, furnished with bread and a
bucket of water each, and refused any opportunity
of laying out their allowaoce of perish money in
•providieg comforts for their inflows, each having
one at the breast.]—This was a ease which must
appeal to every twat. This, and many other abases
described in the Kama. must be attributed to the
iteeligeuce of the-visiting Magistrate.. To them he
wrath! look, And not to their gaoler, or any other
tool they might employ. They had proved them-
selves with fur their situations, and had he his will
he would never more let them exercise one magis-
.terial duty.
Mr. Abler:nen WOOD thought it extreme seve-
rity that there was yet no amelioration iu the treat-
ment of Mr. Haut. The Report countenanced
this teference.,.:ls it slated the Commissiosters to
.hare found him suffering simple solitary confine-
silent on the very sense of the Hine Baronet. As
to the plea of, the Magistrate', that the regulations
of the prison..N9Y. 5,- and 6, prevailed any persons
• f,ont going within de walls, why did they-not let
Mr. Hunt enjoy the society of his family without
the wade? The same regulations belonged to erre),
fiction in the kingdom. but wee ever this interpreta-
tion gveis to it before? There had been persons of
the highest cunsideration confined in Newgete; the
.same regulation existed there; but did the keeper
• ever think of treating the Noble Marquis and Lord
• who had been connoted there as Mr. Hunt had been
.tieateil ? They always distiuguished in oilier
places between such offenders and the felon,. 61111
by keeping them oatside the prison walla, weaned
them from being subject so the regulationx.•
No-
t t.ing could hie more fickle then the conduct of them
Magistrate.. They had uo offence to charge Mr.,
Hunt or any of his friends with, yet they were con-
tieuilly altering their regulations : one time he was
to-have i bottle of wine each two days:aid the •
society of his f. ally ; then. without any. enure.
those tudulgeoces wcie with•trawn. tit wished the
• htagistrates to make an seder which'.wo.ul6 have
effect-ef remmring Mr. Hunt from these re-
striOnts which they had pot on him.: nserelv twit.
would's4no, because be bud brought Inroad the
uiesmaniegetuesit of the prison. 7
Tie Petition was brought
- Oil the motion for reading— • . •..
Mr. 11-licifelue again exterlpateir the Magi,-
oho had sheseu the utmoil, xraiiintie to re.
luAli the abuses as soon as they theso,,and.4
tied to ckary into insitirtitiste 'Writ . the !Nee
cosiintiailatidui.4.ll the COMMA iiii111011..4”410
they referred' •toethe uereranytkf hisrldiers p, new
J 41- .1 • .11..0.77A•
•prhon- • .
Mr. Unman. was stery.liis litYlelf; if • the MA-
yittiato; Nita the Repott•tiaidieti littrd at;out thaw
ls heliostat than to chew dear character. His
ohitui saviors blot that they ems to blains. Lie
bad beard (he knew not bow true it wee) Out vu i

Thetition was &derrd to be printed. -
Mr. Aldeveen WOOD moved that the nit uini
r-

I—be -prin-te-d-: ----7
-----
_ 7 - . ,
Mr. Peet. said that course 1111111114111111Vellots ob-
jectionable. But he had cessirfetOsl Ilait the ex-
pense of printing the lodide-Am would set be very
great, and there were pecullaritiereen the east., which
prevented the right understanding of 'the Report
without the minutes, to whteh it coutineally re-
ferred.
Mr. Husta said that there was en votiblishwient
iu the Navy Office, which, not being at present
employed, might be usefully engaged in this bu-
siness.
The Minutes were ordered to be printed.
Mr. Alderman Woos moved for an Adder's to
the Crowns, praying to hove the evidence of the
two Coroners Inquests laid before the. House-
Mr. Pest., for reit similar to tholiii be had ex-
pressed before, assented to the motidg•obiett was
then denied. :I: Yet v: -.
PENSIONS. ,
..e ~.
Mr. CRIEVET rose to make gooa liis pronititted
motion on the Act for entibling his Majesty to re-
munerate persona holding high and efficient *ilea.
lions, en Act which was little understood by the
House, and not all by the country ; yet it was
most injurious to the interests, and insulting to the
feelings of the country, and subversive of the prin-
ciples and practice of the monarchy. He was not
in England iii 1817. the time of passing it,
or he might hate spared his motion. Yet this
was a peculiarly proper time fur the motion,
because till recently the Act had no operation, and
the general suffering of the community gave it ad-
ditional impertauce. It was called no Act to ena-
ble his Majesty to remunerate persons having held
high and efficient situation., &c. The title had
nothing whatever to do with the Bill. His Majesty
hid nothing to do with the interests of it. It was
de.igned to secure a monopoly to certain dealers in
political offices soil emoluments. The profits of
the moment were to be divided with all the method
of any other Imbue company. The joint stock
was 4.1,0001. changeable on the Consolidated Fund,
and the charter of the Company decreed the divi-
sion to take place in different- proportions among
five classes. The first class, coot ' • g the Foot
Lord of the Tre 'bury, the First Lord of the Ad-
miralty, the three Secretaries of State, and two
others, were to have 3,0001. a year each out of it,
provided they had moped fur the space of two
year—a very hard period, no doubt. But to make
it tolerable, it was mentioned that whether it ran
on, or was made good by intervals—whether
the service were done by the piece or by the job—
in whole or in pateli-work. the operater should
be equally entitled to 3,000/. u year fur life.
Certainly this ought to have been enough for any
reasonable man ; but there was another pension of
9,000/. added, which was without any condition of
two years Novice. So that if • &Insister only served
for two minutes it would entitle him—nay. if he
only went tip and kissed hends.—(llear, bear.)—
The Noble Marquis cheered as if the case were iu
coiltemplotiosi.--(Laughter.)--There wets. however,
six pensions reserved for this first class, on condition
of two years' service, and one even of oncontlitional
service. The second class, including the Chief Se-
cretary for Ireland, and the War Secretary, were to
have three pensions between them of 2,000 f. each,
the term of service required being five years. The
third claps, including the Treasury and Admi-
ralty Secretaries, were to have pet:stows of 1,5001.
each. The 4th class were to have six pensions of
1,0001. each. As far back so historywas known, and
from that period up to 1817, Kings sod Queens
of England were always supposed to have in-
genuity enough to find out the merits of
their servants, and to be the best judges of the
rewards they merited, and where the revenues of
a Sovereign had been crippled, application had
been customarily made by the Crown 10 the Houle,
stating she merits of the individual., and advising
Parliament to enable his Majesty duly to reward
them. These uotions were all clearly done sway by
the Act of 1817 ; there they would Nod merit
determined by Act of Parliament, and a monopoly
of the article vested in the parties named in the
Bill. The King had nothiag sodo wish it—no more
power or voice in it than a subject ; his Majesty could
not violate the Company', chartet.—(Ltiughter.)—
The Noble Lord laughed, sod very good reason he
bad to laugh.—(lncreased laughter).—By the Act
for the limitation of pensiotas, the King could be-
stow no more than 1400/. no pension on any sub-
ject. But here were his Secretaries declaring that
they would have no less than 9,0001. e-year. The
King could not travel oat of the record; he must
observe the Company's charter. Really this had
a very bad aspect. In mere generosity they should
have abstained from asking linn so *Guilt to the
Bill. They should have used the *eel of the Coe.
poration for the occasion. The preamble to the Bill
should have run, " A Bill to roahle his Majesty to
act as Secretary to a Corporetion of Place.huldeis."
The question was, how such a Bill'shotild have get
, into the House : it puzzled him foe a little mime, he
then turned over the Journals, and he found that
it was brought in by Mr. D. ailhrrt, Mr. Benito),
end Lord Castlereagh ; be found further that
gentlemen were Members of the Finance Catuoutee
of 1817 ; he found that the Bill bad been brought in
ptireuent to the recommendation in the ikst Report
of that Commutes ; lie further found Ilott the busi-
'ties, of that Committee was::csconsiderhistr (Sr the;
espenditure.of the country usieht bee tedeeird. and 1
what Olittf measures of relief could be given is the I
•det cultic. undyr which the cdounsuo 'Weft that
'We then
-lebouriug, without detriment to the general hoe.;
le rests. '1o.• supeolisual..ativorer it would seem-,
set: noe hulls they. were tp 4elitre '4t. distrrssea of.l
I: the counirrby viehig filinietirs 44.0001. a year Mu
! perpetuity. Its anyoth,r use it would seem to Piet,
i out very decent in i the error- who were to beile4
Iby it to pot forward such •• proposition. But 00
was a piivileged place, mud they Otte st lite:rty...zu I
du that which t4ieie would be Dik igi.i,lbsitty of do-
ing
in any the cornsuoilest pers4 meeting in o;eig-
Ned. The Corporation, iu the preamble. stated
the grouuds of their elelrusiolio. and a bold hue
they bad taken. They said, in cousequeece of

,

4 1/4
4m*, h rep**,
they give it es their it i• expedient
and nrcertmry,
4 proper economy—till
the abolition or the limes" .•

thereafter 'Limed for- the losses thereby to he
incurred to the holders." Here they advertised
nthe grounds of the building which they intended to
erect, and it wore for the House to examine them on
their own title. The House would do. him the fa-.
your lo follow him through a review of the several
Acts which it would be necessary for 111111 to touch
on, and be begged the Honourable Gentlemen
near him (we believe Mr. Bakes) to check
him as he went along, if he made any thing
like an overcharged statement, which there aas
little occasion for in • case where the bare
truth was so flagrant. The recommendation of the
Committee lied led to the introduction of several
Bills, the first of which was an Act to regulate cer-
tain offices in the Court of Exchequer and the
Alien Office, " from and after the expustiou of the
existing interests." Here he would have the House
to pause, and consider the delicacy observed to•
wards a aniecurist—what pains were taken to assure
him that no harm was to happen to him—that not
a hair of his head should be touched.—[Here the
Hoo. Gentleman recited the titles of several offices
which were to be affected by the Act, the duties of
which were for the future to be done in person instead
of deputy.] The compensations to the holders were
to be awarded by the Treasury, though the offices
belonged to the household; so that it was merely
a trainifer of patronage from the Crown to the Trea-
sury. The next Act. cap. 61, went to abolish ce►-
tain judicial offices—the Chief Justice and Judges
in Eyre. north end south of the Trent, and others,
the duties to be referred to other offices now exist-
ing. This was all very good ; but why should it
lead to the creation of sinecures I—why did
these services require to be rewarded with
42,0001. • year ? The next Act, cap. 6i, went
to abolish and regulate offices in Ireland. But
because places were reduced were sinecures to in-
crease ? Ia any other place this would be call-
ed obtaining money under false pretences. It
was Parliamentary seindling—nor more or legs.
He defied any to deny it. Was it to he endured,
because Ministers had transferred patronage from
the Crown to the Treesury. that they were to have
41,000/. a year for it ?—[The Hon. Gentleman pro-
ceeded to ■u+lyze the several Acts of the same kind
which were passed for the regulation end abolition
of offices in Ettgland, Ireland, and Scotland, and
then resumed his argument i n the Act in question.
which had been passed to remunerate the lose of
patronage and profit incurred.]— This Act was an
effectual repeal of•the 6411 Amid., which required
every Member, on accepting • place or office
from the Crown. to yucaie his seat. There was
no such condition ■unexed to these pensions.
Mr. Yorke, who had vacated his seat under the
6th Anne. had reason to regret that he had not
lived under the government of the Honourable
Member for Corte Castle. Well would it have
been for hum had he seen the establishment of the
new dynasty ; he need not then have vacated Ina
seat, and gone down and lost his election, and
thereby lost hi. pension in the end. Surely a F,.
nonce Committee was the greatest of all grievances
to a nation. The Noble Lord could never have

brought down a Message from the Crown, stating
that his Majesty wished the House not to forget
the services of public men—hoping that some mile
would be done, if it were only just to include
them in a corner of • Supply Bill. As to his
Lordship having the profits, or legiriling the emolu-
ments of office, that was out of the question ; but
he could never have dared to bring down such a
message; he could never have sliewn his face
again. The utmost• would have been • message
requesting that, as in consequence of the abolition
of certain places the Crown had been deprived of
rewarding its serv.ints, the House would place at
its disposal a certain sum to remunerate service,.
But this was entirely different from the Bill
which fixed the services, the pay, and the
parties who were to receive it. He protested against
this new way of doing things through a Finance
Committee, and under appearuneea and professions
of economy. He thought it very poor that remu-
neration should be given to men holding " high
and efficient situations." Clerks were fortuerly
thought fit subjects for remuneration, bat not
Ministers. In 1780, in the administration of the
Duke of Newcastle, who had been Minister for 30
years before, there was no thought of remuneration
to persons holding high and efficient situations. Mr.
Pitt had riot thought of such n thing, though he
had framed a Bill to abolish patent places; and
now, when we were 600 millions more in debt, to
introduce such a maxim was insufferable. He
wished to go back to the old method of messages
from the C,own, instead of by economical eesolu-
lions of a Committee of Finance. He concluded
by moving—
" That an Adarese be prese•ted to his Majesty, prariag
that be would be pleased to gure di,rctiuue, that there be laid
before the House accounts of all the profit emu sing to the
public fiom the abolition of certain offices, reduced under
the Acts of 57 Gro. II f. caps. 60, 61,62, 65, 66, and ftel ;
and also, accounts of all places and pensions go anted under
the aims stiannal, in rosueasatiou for the abiditiuu of the
offices ',Lined in the abuse Acts."

Mr. lISICKEI said, that after the attack which
the tHom'and Cermet! Member had made upon the
Faience Committee of 1917—after his hewing said
that:the proceedings of that Committee were en
abotailiable !outrage—(Hear, hear),—tie House
would, perhaps, be surprised to hear that that
, Honourable and Learned Member (ilr. Creevev)
haulmlf was a party to tile principles recommended
iii the Report of that Committee—(Cheers from
.the .allitostorsip) Bracelet.) —i hat he (Mr. Crrevey)
and his friend,prar him ( slr. Bennett. as we under-
stood), were as much committed by the principle
.of that measure 'cruller the Noble Lord (London-
. Berry) or Mauch' (%lr. Bunke..)—(Hear, bear )
lin order to palm whet he said as he went on,
he would read a Resolution which had been
!passed in that Home on the 01st of May, 1910.
A debate lied arisen out of a variety of Resolution,
proposed :re it Finance Committee, of which he
(Mr. Bunke,/ wee Chairmen, in Me (as we soder-
' *toad). lo that Committee one art al Resolutions
had been proposed by Mr. ileory Ma rta). another
by the Lite Mr. Pererv.al, a shard by the Right
Hots. the Member forWaterforel (Sir J. Newport),
cud a fourth by himself (sir. liat.kes). Upon the

- ~.--,

. . .s•-. 7.
iierile lot these Resolutions various &Instil hati
taken place', after which ri Resolution was ',awed by
"the House (and he believed the Hon. Member for
Shrewsbury was present as teller on that ocesation),
declaring that it was expedient to grant to the Crown
full and ample means to reward its high and effi-
cient servants, and that in any attempts to abolish or
regulate such places, a strict regard should be had
to the existing interests in those offices.-o-(flesrs
hear, hear.)—The Hon. and Learned Member for
Appleby (Mr. Creevey) said he was absent at the,
time when the Act of the 37th of the bite King was
passed ; he (Mr. Bankes) must certnisily regret thrill
eircunietionce, whereby they were deposed of his
valuable assistance on that occasion, and of Thom
exertions of his great abilities which might 'whops
save stopped them in the career in which they were
running headloone. He knew not what the ciocuin.
stances were which had occasioned that event, but he
foetid upon referring to the prooceedings of the
House at that time, that on a division which took
place after a debate on a previous motion before the
House on the same day, the tellers were Mr. Cree-
vey—(Hear, hear, and laughter prom the M.itiste-
rial Benches)—sod Lord Milton—(Hear, hear.)—
, If the Noble Lord were present, he (Mr. Bankes)
should have something to say to him on the subject
of the eonsiatency of his conduct in regard to ibis
question. If the Hon. Member were a party to the
Bill at that period, he (Mr. Baiikes) shonld like to
know what had since occurred to make him wish for
its abolition. He (Mr. B.) had undoubtedly him.
self been a party to the Bill, except that he wished
some limitations to be applied to the operation of
its principle, iii particular cases, when peculiar cir-
cumstances might appear to require them. The
Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to read an extract
from one of the Reports of the Committee of Fi-
nance, stating " that the Committee ob•erved that
there were many ancient high offices in the gift of
the Crown whio) it conceived might be usefully
retained to be given as a reward fur great personal
services, or to secure an honourable retreat to per-
sons who might have been many years employed in
the public service, or who had sacrificed lucrative
professional pursuits to enter into the service of the
public." He also quoted a Report presented by
Mr. Burke, es Chairman of • Committee on the
same subject, which stated, "-At the same time
regarding it as a fundamental part of the constitu-
tional preriogatives of the Crown, that it should ,
have the means of rewarding persuite who had dis-
charged the duties of high official situations in •
manlier more adequate to the dignity, responsibi-
lity, and 'importance of those services, than by the
daily pay or salary attached to those offices,
the Committee are of opiiiiou that some sine-
cure places should be retained for the pur-
pose of being bestowed in rewarding persons who
had discharged the duties of such high official
situatioos; or in the event of the [loose preferring
to abolish all sinecures, it appeared to the Commit-
tee, that it would be necessary to provide some
other mains of securing to such persons a more
efficient remuneration for their services than the
salaries attached to those offices aff.irded." And
from the language of these Reports. he argued that
the total abolition' even of sinecures had never been
in the contemplation of those Committees. He
had heard various opinion. in that House concerning
the Bill in question ; and he knew that there were
those who advocated the total abolition of all pen-
nons, and who thought the services of most of the
persons in official situations greatly overpaid even
by the salaries of the offices in which they served.
Persons who held such opinions might consistently
vote for the repeal of the Pension Bill ; but having
voted for the principles of the Bill in 181 i and
1813, and having been present in the House
on the day when the Resolution was proposed
which was agreed to in 1810, whether he actually
'voted for it or not, lie must say that he felt much
surprised that the Hon. Member should have come
forward on this occasion, nod spoken of the measure
in the terms which he had applied to it.—(Hear,
hear.)—He could only account for it on the sup-
position, that the Hun. Member wished it to go
forth as a new and proper topic for the harangues
at public meetings, such as those of the proceed-
ings at which so, much had been heard of late, that
42,0001. of the public money was actually expended
in annual pensions to persons who had done nothing
to entitle them to any remuneration from the pub-
lic, in consequence of the provisions of the Act
which was now under discussion ; and that he also
wished his (Mr. Batikea's) name to be coupled
with that statement, as the author and adviser of
the measure. The Hon. Member had attacked the
Bill, and made it the subject of a charge against
him, that it took the disposal of those pensions
and places, as lewards, out of the hands of the
Crown, and vested it in a corporation of statesmen.
The Bill, however, provided that the disposal of
these pensions should Always remain in the hands of
the Crown, under the advice of its responsible •
Ministers. Was there, he would ask, any thing
unconstitutional in such a proceeding? But what-
ever the objection might be to the provisions or the
he begged that the Hun. Member might not
be allowed to escape front the position in which he
hod tired himself with regard to the mesaure, by
his asoent to the principle which pervaded the whole
of the Bill brought its by him (Mr. B-nkes) in
1812 sod 1813, and founded on the Resolution of
1810, which lie had read. But even if the 42,000/.
were all paid at one time, still, in point of economy.
lie contended that much had been gained to the
country bylthe Bill. In considering this part of
the subject, it was necessary to look at tl e
amount of the sinecure' that were abolished, and
the places that were regulated ; and comparing
them with the amount of the pensions autho-
rized by this Bill to be given as compensation
for public services in high official situations,
even if pensions to the full extent ',flowed were
Owlet' under it, it would be found that a great
staving had been effected by it.—[lii support of this
position the Honourable Gentleman proceeded to
compare the scale of the salaries of the sinecures
in the Exchequer previous to the alterations under
the Bill, with the existing scale of shut establish-
ment; but we feel it necessary here to state, that
he occasionally dropped his voice to so low it tune
as to render it at times wholly inaudible in the
gallery.]—lleknew that it was very much the pram.
bee to raise an outcry, as if the weight of pensions
and sinecures bore timidly and oppressively upon the
country. That existing rights in some unnecessary
offices had been saved, he was ready to admio,,aud

they ought to ilve so; be in loin)! sinerore oft;
at present in the gift of the Crown. no such
existed. The thus. Member for Appleby (ti.F.
Creevey) mid hi' friends, if indeed hr had any
friends to support hint on this ut-cinion—(Losiglo.
ter)—were lotting moot inconsistently with their
ruiner rooduct, hawing then supported the loin.
ciple of the Bill, Slid Voted Fur the Bill itself.
Hating induced the Crowe so part with some of Its
most valuable rights fir the public benefit, thew
would now take away the consideration which had
been substituted for the rights so give, op ; bet
was that fair? Was it consistent with committal
jurtier mid common honesty ? Would the linear
consent to it ?—(1-fear, hear, hear.)—Hartnti
himself taken an active part in promoting the
arrerigeineut *lnch had been loathe—haeinr,
naked. effected it agaiust the inclination of ii.e
Minister, of the Crown. who Would hate beep
gro.rly n. glectful of their duty if they had eve%
consented to the diminution of those rights withotit
some rettorn-z-lie would not now lend himself to any
act so dishonest and disgraceful as the rescinding of
the compact as mails. by taking awry that which
hail been substituted as a consideration for vs.
usable conceded for public convenience.
—(Cheers from the Ministerial Benches.) 6
Mr. 11. G. BURNETT, notivithatittichtig all he
heard from the Hon. Member who had joist sat
down, upon which he begged leave to offer • few
observations, could not look upon the Bill in goes.
tint, in any other light than that of a measure which
ought to have beets strangled in its birth. The
Honourable Member had charged him with having
agreed to the Resolution of May. 1810. low it PO
happened that hr was not in Parli .mrmt in ftTlO; iu
191 I'he carne into l'erliameat, a,id in 1813 Nnr Bill
broug!it in by the Hose. Member. But to shew
what his (Mr. Bennett's) opinion of the measure
had been in 1817, when the Bill will intssed,
joined his Hon. Fiend, who made an able speech nit
the occasion, in opposition to it, because lie did 6,4
agree in the principle which was now lee Ainots-
stun ; and so strongly was he confirmed in the No-
niron which he then held, by subsequent esperieure,
that hr would neglect tin mean. to iii. poser iu
obtain the repeal of the Bill. The Hon. Gentle-
man animadverted in strong terms nu the emptitiew
of the Reports of Committees of the House, suit
the utter disregard of those Reports, suit the
speeches they made on them, evolved in the con-
duct of the Chairmen of Committees ; and cited
as an instance the Honourable Chairman of the
Finance Committee; fur if hr were called maw
to point out the Member of that House wins we.
of all others the most extravagmit in his. mono,
arid the most parsimonious m his professustis,-who
nibbled at cheese-parings and left the whole cheese
at the mercy of those who used tt i.. waste—he
should say, such a mall was the Ilion. Member for
Corfe Castle (Mr. Baokes). give some idea of
the value to the country of the sinecn.r. of *Welt
he complained, the Hon. Gentlemen detailed the
salaries of offices of that description held by Lard
Grenville, Mr. T. Grenville, the Duke of Brick.
ingham, and Lord Braybrooke. who between them
had received from the public purse to the amount
of N 74,000/. The Hon. Member for Corfe Cante
had talked very loudly of leaving the Crown hare ;
he talked es if no influence whatever were left to
the Crown. To shew how well founded was the
Honourable Mensbet's complaint on filet head,
he (Mr. Bennett) read • list of places and peussons
at the absolute (nepotist of the Crown, andt others
given by the Crown subject to the approval of Par-
liameitt, amounting to 164,000/. a year. Thee
talked of granting these things as rewards for pith.
lic services, when there was not a man who Resew
any thing of the history of the country who war net
aware that for the most part they were given as die
consideration for political jobbing of the lowest de-
scription of baseness. As for what the Hon. Mem-
ber had said of the right, or the Crown, he (yr.
Bennett) was at a loss to understand what hr meant.
The rights of the Crown existed only for the heoelit
of the people—(Cheers from both sides of the
House)—and must bend to the rigida and interest•
of the people, whose best and most valosbleyightwes
that of the preservation of their roperty„—(l-leur.)—
the Honourable Friend was entitled to the thanks
of the country for bringing forward this motion.
and as to those meetings of which the Hoinsorsh'e
Member for Corfe Castle spoke so jeeringly, hr
should like to see the Honourable Member at some
of them—(lluch laughter)—he should like to see tie
Honourable Member's conduct submitted to de:
tret of • jury of public meetings, instead of a jury
of that House—(Laughter)—instead of heiag held
up as the patron (Aeronomy, lie would there be rola
muted for what he really was—the advocate of meow
and pitiful savings. but. at the mime time the sup-
porter of the largest and moat extravagant public
expenditure—saving of pence and lavish of gunieas
—the voter, sea he always had been. of extravagaut
estimates, and the supporter of prodigality of every
description.—(Laughter and general cheerine).
Tile Marquis of LONDONDERRY thought that
gallantly as the Honourable Gentleman who hot
just sat down had conducted himself, he would,.
on review of hot adventure, find reason. in point nt
prudence, to regret that he had not taken the hints
from the Honourable Member for Corfe Csvt'e.
unit left the Perilous enterprise of cor...ing b •
Honourable Friesid*/ retreat to some other !flea
The Holt. Member for Westminster, he bettegarle
hal offered himself—(Mr. Hoblioute bowed)—
who, from having but recently come into Paha.
mew, and not being mixed up with the former pro-
efietetedrilnPforonthtehisse
Gentleman had stated amounted to this, that he
was trot a party to the Resolution of 1810, but
srvuibeeje.ct, might have here better
Now he could not allow the lion. Member is take
that he did support the thelBl2Hanin:lrBabli:
credit for seven years of opposition in suppertnig
the Bill, t n.I afterwards for seven years in opposing
the Bill. Ile (Lord L.) himself had opposed the
11.11 at, the ground of the expense to the country.
but rho (lot. Member supported it bemuse it Intl-
erected from the other side of the House. He knee
slot what it might be called in that Houle,
hut out
of it it would be deemed very !ike swindling to pet-
sonde the Crown to give up part of its valuable pri-
vileges on the pretence of vccommodation to the
public by accepting of something else in eschangri
anal ofterwards alien what was so substituted wet
claimer', withholding it altogether. The Honoura-
ble nentlemmi had ealubited unusually bad two
in the detailing of the Items attached to that

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