The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1806-03-18 00:00:00

111)CiE 01 co‘tNIONS.

Sir Stephen Cotterel, from the Privy Council,
resented at the Bir copy of the refuter.' In de
in tb. fitivv Coward, of the names of the Prebend.,
Refturies. Vicarages, /tr. in England and %'+., ales,
distinFov.htng ti..ne on which the Iteitbr. Sc:. were
resident, sad th,,se not so —.Ordered to Ire No the
Table.

(h the Motion of Intl TEMPLE, Mr. Mos-
tTn, Mr Itast.td, and Mr. Kit tii, a Gloucester,
were added to the Coarts.ttee, On the Wooilen Ma-
nufwaitzeteliall.

The Bill was then •ead a second time, and or-
dered to be commuted to-morrow.
ORDNANCE TREASURER'S BILL.
The Committee on the Ordnance Treasurer's
Bill, which stand for this day, was, en the motion
of Lord H YETI Y, postponed to Thursday.
Sir C. Pole brought up a Petition from the Malt-
sters of Newark. in Nettiughunshire, praying a re-
peal of a clause in the Corn Aft, relating to the
wetting of malt.— Ordered to lie on the table.
CAPE OF GOOD HOPE.
Mr. Srcreta.v WINDHAM, after moving that
certain A.:ls of kVilliarn 111. be entered, as read pro
fraq—nicteld
" That the Howie e,V to.monow resolve itself inte a Cow
tai-Amt of the oltele ti,.re, to take gi.ta eousaleratres the
Tr-de ireteeen I,.ts Country and the Cve of (aosii
Ordered.
NAVAL COMMISSIONERS.
Mr. WHITRHEAD said, he rose in consequence
of the notice he had given co a former day, to
make the motion he then meatilned; and, as be had
reasin to believe there would be no otjne,on made
to the produeion of the Account he wished for, he
should have occasion only to trouble the Honse
with a very f:w obsereatier.s on the subjee. '1 here
vias in the Estimates of the late Berard of Admiralty,
whic:: Lad been laid before the House, an item of
%.),nool..tated to be for the ezpences of the Coto-
mi4sionert appointed by the House (at the instance
of the Execuiive Gorernmmt) to t'.:e purpose cf
dividing and digevine the ilia Affairs of the
Nary. It seemed to him necessary that it should
be strewn how these expences had accrued, or upon
what calculation they had been founded. The
Curumi.sioners ct Naval Inquiry had nn been ap.
poioted three year., and, he beiirved, there i. s only
use opir.ign in the public mind as to the important
services they had tendered the c....urnre, by then-set
their labours. Those gentlemen, it seemed, were
ans to recnive any compensation or
For ti'e's set vices, till they

task. in

5

NI ,

• a
the case of the ether Commissioners, they had, only
been appoinied about arida mcmhs ; and from
the time the, Fatimate WAS made, and the cum
of 20,0001. votrti, it would seem as if it were
thought necessary they should he remunerated
almost ar the commencement of their labours.
He allowed, that alt p tams who were employ-
ed by the public, ought to be paid by the pub-
lic, and ought also to be paid liberally ; but
there was a mode, a decency, and a time of
payment,w•A
l-iCh should also be considered ; and it
appeared to him, that the sum of 20,0001. was a
prodigious amount for any c silences that could have
occurred in the short time those Commissioners
had been appointed. But, besides this, there was
a further sum of 50001. which was entrusted in their

hands for the purpose of meeting cnntingeneies.—
This was what surprised hint more than the other,
especially when he relict-led, that all the expenees
of the Naval Commissioners, during a period of
three years. and including their journies to Wool-
wich, Portsmouth, Plymouth, and every other
ghee they had visite-1, in the execution of the ex-
tensive duties imposed on them, and the variety of
matters they had to inquire into, amounted only to
the sum of 50001. Having stated this, he would
t trouble the House further at present, than to
move.
"That then be tail h...fore the Houle an Accou;:t of the
intended Applicati la of the sure of 20,0601. formed on esii-
elates for expanacei car the Commavaiewers for d•rtalwrq anal di-
`t-101'01e 0,11 MEWS t 4 the Na”, fur tl.e Yeas 1805 anal
t: geher wit:a all Documents, Corrtapoutlence, iftc. that
wag ger.. to thine a light um tie sane:'
On the question being put,
Lord CAS FLEREAGH said, he had no objec-
tion whatever to the produaion of a:1 such ac-
_

counts as might tend to satisfy the Hon. Gentleman
on this suhjeei ; all he rose for at present was, to
make a very few ob-ervations on the manner the
Hon. Gentleman had adopted in introducing his
motion. The lion. Gentleman had said, the Naval
Commissioners were to receive an remuneration for
their labours tiil they had closed them; whereas,
the Commissioners in the other case were to be re-
munerated almost before they had begun their la-
bours. lie wished the House not to suppose the
late Goverrone:it was desirous to remunerate any
persons before they Lad begun their labours ; but
they were tensible, persons so employed must be re-
munerated, and roust be alloned their espences ;
and, as such, they were desirous of laying before
the [louse, as soon as possible, such sums as they
were of epinion would be necessary for those pur-
poses. The Executive Government having set on
foot this Commission, li id deemed it their duty to
provide for all the exte.nces attending it, and as soon
as they had done so, to ley the same before the
House, for their approbation, or otherwise, and not
with ary intention of rtmnnerating the Commis-
sioners before hand, as the lion. Gentleman had
seemed to inf.r by his arguments.
Mr. WHLFBREAD .aid, he dial not know whe-
ther it were usual with the Executive Government
to pay before-hand, but he thought the stint pro-
vided was by far too great, without some mote sa-
t ilatory &tails than appeared before the House at
pre se at.
Mr. HUSK IS9ON said, he had no doubt but the
accounts would (hew very clearly how ninth a.f
this money had been expended, and for what.
They were liable to be scrutinised by the proper rr-•
sons sow in office, and of course they would take
care every thing should he fair ; they would be ha-
Me to the investigation of the Paymaster, and after-
wards bi the Auditor of Accou.sts, as the Estimates
Lad only been voted and nut esiaended ; so that if
there were any of thrum voted remaining, it would
be transferred in the usual way from those g,+ing
..ut of often, to these who succeeded them. The
principal article was the 5,0001., out of which he be-
lieved were to be paid the rent of a house, sal( Lies
of Secretary, Clerk., ike.
Mr S. BOURNE said, the Secretary's salary
was KW:. a year, and was paid nut of the 50001.
Mr. Vt HLTBREAD said, the first Secretary's
salary was 8001. bet another had been appointed,
esti was paid only 5001.
Mr. WILBERFORCE. said, he applauded at all
times a jealousy in Men.beic of that U. use, in every
thing relatirg tothe expenditore of the public money ;
hut &••.m the high (minion he entertained of the well-
known economy of the Noble Lord, lately at the
bead of the Admiralty D.per talent, he was inclined
to think the Estimate seas not greater than the pro-
bability of the espenees would require. Every one
knew the Noble Lord had h.•oself given a striking
instance of inde;sende ice and liberality, by his de-
claration when he tame into office, that he would
never receive the emoluments attached to doing the
duties of it.
Mr. Will 1-"BREA,D said, he by no means wished
to take from the independence of the Noble Lord,
but he beiieved it was an example which would
not be much admired, r f doing the duties of office,
without receiving those emoluments fairly and just-
ly attached to it.
The question was then put, and the Motion
agreed to.
Mr. BASTARD moved,
. For an Account of MI the ex; erieee of the Commie.
oilmen of the Ma... from the tune of their appointment to
the end el' the year 19413."..trtiered.
A Message from the Lords informed the House.
that their Lordships had agreed to the Greenland
Whale Fishery Bill, the Royal Martine Mutiny Pill,
the Irish Duties Bill, and the Foreign Soldiers' Bill,
without any Amer dments.

li\.

INDIA CARRYINGS TRADE.
Mr. Alderman PRINSEP rose to give notice, and
was proceeding to introduce it by some previous in-
troduftory matte', when
'I he SPEAKER reminded him, that it was the
raeice of the House, in giving a notice, for Hull.
Members to confine themselves to the notice only.
Mr. Alderman PitINAEP then said—" I give
Sit, that I saatl, early in the next Session, (e
lamer) move for a Committee to enquire into
' ZltF Carrying Trade of India.'"
Mr. C. W. 11'1.1iNK, in pursuance of the notice
had given, moved
tam to to a am, to ampri an Act of last Scs.
''.lllolh, los an,p,intiot, C0.,..•.•4••••19.14, to o.gmrc Into Abwes in
JAM...anon a:4 Ltatmg Iv Streets pi C.ty of Dub:.n."
Warted:
Mr. GILES moved
a.. eit•stract 0 r.c R eta- n rawer to the P. iv , c,„„„,11,
I.) the lospectos4...n.-ral of His fo,ces, of the sup.

Ply of \f to, in the different Counties, u..Aer ttw Tlegeocr•
sod the Pr.,,,ortium of the several Poruoto ILI saell Cout:ty."..-
10100. ed..
ORDNANCE ESTIMATES.
Mr. ALEXANDER brought up the Repro.' of
the Committee of Supply on the Ordnance Esti-
mates.

The resolutions were read ; and on the question
that they ho read a wcond time,
General TAttLEToN rose and said. that on this
important point, which included upward. of two
millions of money, he would beg the attention of
the House to a few observations he wished to make

on it. Before he proceeded, however, to the imme-
diate question of the Estimates, he wished to make
• few preliminary remarks on the situation which
the country was, at present, placed in, with respell
to its military system. We were now at a com-
plete stand still ; and however the Parisi Bill had
been ridiculed by the Right Hon. Gent. opposite
(Mr. Windham), as well as another Hon. Gent.
not now in his place (Mr. Sheridan), vet by the
means which had lately been resorted to, it had b, en,
by these Right Pon. Gentlemen, rendered lest el-
feCtive than a had ever been before, for hi the last

week it had produced only .53.; and yet, in this ad-
vanced period of the Session, nothing was brought
forward to be used in aid of it, or to be substituted
in its stead. That numerous, high-spirited, and
respeiaable body of men, the volunteers, Lad also
been frequently a subjea of ridicule with the Right
Honourable Gendeman opposite (Mr. Windham),
who had treated them as-an ineffeaive body, which
injured the recruiting for the general service ; yet,
at this very moment, when all men altos that our
situation is every day growing more critical, and
that every possible means of &Mace ought mime-
diate'y to be exerted and resorted in, the Itig:it
1-lon. Secretary has now been long in Ince, and bout
not thought proper to give us any thing is the
shape either of his plan or system, or e.ti inset Ile
pleases to call it, nor to intiam us whether th • Vo-
lunteers are to remain as they Art', to be totally .is-
banded, or what is to be made of, or done with
them. As to his own part, he hail seen thirty y ass
of active service, and had, in tha. time, been often
employed, and should have been note so, lie be-
lieved, had it not been for the very violent attach-
n.ent he had formed and shewn for certain Hon
Gentlemen whom he now saw opposite to him (a
/drab), and the present m: de of raising a militai y
loser, which seemed to be the favourite of the Right
Hon. Gentlemen, was the most ezttaorchisary he
had ever witnessed, or had ever read of in tie
course of his military studies. Anoth, r Right Hon.
Genii:man had taken from a Friend of 1 is a naval
cloak, with which, however, he could not suffi-
ciently warm himself, in this cold weather, to enable
him to come down to the House to move for the
repeal of that Parish Bill, after having so I..ng given
notice of his intention so to do. Wimn moat Right
Hon. Gentleman was in a ftwerer administration,
he had told him (General Earletnii), with great
emphasis, just after he arrived from abroad, " that
tke French wet e always three weeks before ITS, and
we three weeks behind the French." The mode
adopted by the Iti;tht Hon. Gen Zeman at present,
seemed as if our distance behind them was to be
increased. As to the Ordnance Estimates now on
the table, they are nothing more than those of the
fur nrer Board of Ordnance. 111 cl were formed by
a Nobleman whose talents had beers long exerted in
the service of his country. and akin, had he hc,n
continued in his office, world have then!' they were
not exerte.! in vain. He meant no offence to the
present Master-General of that Deparment ; for
whose chara,fter he hod the highest respell, but it
was not to be wondered at, that so g od a plan
should emanate horn the abilities of a Npblernan so
zealous in his country's cause, as the late Head
.of the Ordnance Department ( Lord Gnathani),
who was the son and the hrother of two of the
greatest men this country ever produced. The
General then adverted to the Brile of 'Era-
Niger. and said, that a tyrant (Bonaparte) speak-
ing of that aslion, had called it an anion
imprudently entered upon." if he thought it
imprudent in. the beginning, there can be no
doubt but he will change his mode of attack ; he
will engage us no more in that way, and we shall,
henceforwards, have to meet the war with a new
face. We must now look to the flotilla of France.
which is to he found in every port, from the Texel
to Genoa. Bonaparte, he said, had threatened to
invade us in May, and it was a matter of great mo-
ment, that our great military depot, containing all
our cannon, stores, and the only laboratory we have,
should not remain at Woolwich. All our East and
West-India, and Irish stores, should remain there,
but none else. He had heard of a great military
eh pet, at Wedonbeck, but he would advise that that
at Woolwich should be transferred to Leicester, or
some other place in the centre of the kingdom, not
south of Northampton. He begged to remind the
House, that the summer season was frequently sub-
jea to calms for many days together; and if a
French army were to land, Woolwich would be too
near the coast, and it was known with what celerity
the French armita matched; and how import:a:A
the principal de#:et of a country was, might he ga-
thered from the Treaty of Presburg. It a central
de of were formed, was it to be supposed the Army,
Militia, or Volhn:eers, would tight worse on that ac-
count? ho far from it, he was cr.:winced, that if
even London were ever taken, an army might he
found to regain our losses; and it would have a far
greater chance of doing so, if the .hrot were situated
as he had ;scented out. He then made a general re-
cap itulation of the several points of his argument—
said, we we wereto contend for our honour, Constitu-
tion, haws, religion, and every thing that was most
near and dear to us. lie would not trouble the
House further, than to advise Has Majesty's Minis-
ters to ac with the greatest caution, and would
conclude, he said, with the words of Mr. Burke—
.. 1 hi.t r.thct he de.pii,eil for too anxious an arprthelision;
this ruitscil by ton confident a security."
Mr. CALCIt said, the Han. General. in
what he bad said on the Estimates, now under con-
sideration. had only told the House, what was
known to every Clerk in the office, via. that the
Estimates were nearly the same as those of the late
Board. lie had himself acknowledged thit, in the
Committee or Supply. he reason was clear and
concise. The present Master-General came to the
simation at a very critical period. He had to take
a survey of an extensive line of coast; and, in doing
so, he found many great works undertaken, on which

.- r,..

ths mono) already expended wettlA be entitel,.
thrown away, unless they wera finished. Tl.eri
was one article only which the Board h td deter•
mined on, and that was the slim of 12.0001. 1,1
the laboratory ; they understood. that in general
f 23,0001. a year was the expenditure on that head.
and thought it best boldly to strike that bum a.
once. As to the removal of the depot at Woolwich.
that was a military question he w.ts not competent
to speak to. It would, however, he downed rot
be duly considered by those who were cormse tent ;
but the Honourable General seen el to have to:-
gotten, that there was a very large central depot
already fixed na by the lave administration.
fleneral TARLE FON explained, that he, in-
stead of censuring, had praised the condua of the
present Board of Ordnance.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, though he thought
it prisper, in the House, to bear the present Fstirriate
in their view, yet he was ready to admit, that pro-
bably there might not have Leen sufficient time for
the present Ministers to be prepared with the general
plan they intendi•d to submit for the defence of
the country ; for which reason, he would not, at
this time, press them to what max he deemed a
premature disclosure. It would not, however, he
conceived, be an untimely interference with their
system, if he requested information from them upon
some few points, which he considered to be of very
great importance. The first question, therefore,
which he meant to put, was, whether it was their
intention to persevere in the present system of coast
defence, which he Vas happy to know was already
in such forwardness, that it would, if continued, be
. _

•
completed before the end of the Summer? He ad
mitted, that neither lie, nor those with whom he
a Red, had any right to complain of the present
Kstimate, which went upon the same scale as that
which t. ey themselves submitted in the former year ;
but he had to observe, that it did not include the

expense of the military works ereding for the de-
fence of the Eastern District. The reason why the
estimate of these works was not presented before
was, that, at she time when his Right Hon. Friend,
now no more (Mr. Pitt), returned' from Bath, the
plan had. not received the formal approbation of
His Majesty. It was the intention of the Right Hon.
Gent. to ‘4Olll he before alluded, to have adopted a
general sytem of defence, for the Western, similar to
that which was resorted to for the Eatern coast, to
have extended the same defensive plan of the coast
to Ireland, and to have prepared another for the in-
ternal defence of the latter country, without which
it could not be considered in a state of absolute se-
curity. This was meant to have been brought for-
ward in the present Session, and the present Minis-
ters would find the details of the plan, fully matured,
in the proper office. He strongly recommended to
those now in office, to pay the fullest attention to
.that system; and though it might be the wish of the
Noble Lord to keep down the public expences as
far as was consistett with tyre safety and Interest of
the country, yet he was convinced that the enlarged
mind of that Nobleman would not suffer notions of
economy to interfere with a measure of permanent
defence, at all times, of that part of the coast which
lay almost in cornea with the coast and military
preparations of the enemy. He could not fail of also
being sensible of the necessity of patting not only
the accessible parts of the coast out of the reach of
any hostile surprise or attack, but likewise placing
Ireland in such a state of defence, that an invading
army, even if landed, might not traverse the whole of
it from one extremity to the other, without meeting
ssith clung artificial obstructions. He concurred
in WhAt had hien said by his lion. Friend (General
T.,. Aeon), that it was not prudent to amiss all our
stoles in a single Zoo/. where they might not be
tort of the reach of accident. By the plan of the
late Minister:, the weeks now building at Wedor-
beck %sorb not meant for a general depot, but to
distribute also a proportional quantity of them at-
Woolwich, Citatham, and Plymouth. Ile then re-
'flooded the House, that when a question was,
on a former occasion, put, respecting the in-
tention of Ministers with regard to the De-
fence ASR, the Right Honomabie Gentleman (Mr.
Windham) did not distinctly state whether it
were the present determination of Ministers that it
should he repealed or not, and he did not now wish
to press them to any thing like a premature reso-
lution ; as he thought it a lobjed of such great im-
portance, that he was desirous that titer should
consider very deliberately on it. He was anxious
however, to suggest to them, that however
they might determine with regard to the Act it-
self, they would thus catty give the public an as-
surance, that even in case of the measure being re-
pealed, the counties which had not raised the num-
ber of men required, shosld not be exempted Irons
the penalties attached to their negleel ; for nothing
could be a greater injustice to the counties that had
done their duty, than that those which had not done
so, should be released from the penalties. That ar-
m-sore was the more necessary at present, because,
should the penalties be hereafter enfoice.l, the state
'of suspense in which they were Row left, would
place them at a greater disadvantage, when they
came to be demanded. It should also be considered,
that whatever malignity might have represented
against that law, it even at present doclosed a
Brest system of defence, in spite of all opposition;
and the counties now deficient, would even yet
have an opportunity of getting rid of three-fourths
of the penalties, if they furnished the men, before
they were raised by the Officers of the battalions.
Those who felt security in that measure of defence,
must feel no small alarm at the extraordinary long
consultations in shish the present War Minister was
sn.rge,i ; consultations spun out beyond any thing
that was ever before heard of. He again repeated.
that it was not his intention to press for a premature
disclosure of any new plan; hut felt the necessi y
of explanation, with regard to the penalties.
Mr. WINDHAM replied, that the Gentleman
opposite him, on a former occasion, rxrrcsted
opinion that the new Ministers ought to have bees
ready with their plan, in the space of three days
after coming into office ; but they surely ought to
have considered, and the Noble Lord in particelar
should have repressed his impatience, by reflecting
that the difficulties of the psesent teliaisters were
chiefly occasioned by the measures adopted he their
predecessors. The Noble Lord stated the .ir•pre-
hrmions of the country from the delay of the i.ew
system, and seemed to compArethe state of our emit-
wry preparation, to that of a patient abandoned 'ay

his physicials ; but former physittnns, wto hr-hkl t
that patient to death's door, hid no right to reclaim
aeeinst their succe.sors, for not restoring him ins.
medietely. Such was the to 'son why ta^ Ministers
wee so long in getting out of the (ilk-cities he_
qu rethed t? them. if he declined now to answer
the questions fast to him, it was not perhaps ac much
because he had not made up hinimind upon then:,
but because he did not think it proper that such
questions :Inlaid be put to him. On a former °ces-
sion, he only stated, that the present Defence Ad
world make no part of the new system, and he de-
nied that he had ever male any declarations which
need alarm either the volunteers, or arty other de-
scription of persons.
Mr. CANNLNG, finding himself alluded to,
thought it right to explain, that what he said in a
termer speech, was occasioned by a notice given on
the first day of the Session by a Right Hon. M, m.
her of the present Administration, of his intenties
to move for a repeal of the Defence AR, and when
a delay for a short time was proposed, only five days
could be obtained, though certainly mai -r sites
melancholy circumstancio, as, in his /Mile, et,„
to have made a sensible imprt ashen: in any Cesar
man, whatever may Ise his pulitital opinion. ( eiee
ing to Mr. Pitt's ilines-). This invite, in,‘ t!.e d,„
plorable event which eo quickly follewele , haviug
brought the present htinisters into posse .it was na-
tural (or the friends of the Defence AR nut to ex-
pea that so long a delay was to have intervened,
before any thing was done with it. Neither he,
nor those about him, had said that the system already
adopted, was not !efficient for the defence and
safety of fhe country ; hut as that was the main to-
pic of contention between both sides of the Houste
oleos was reason to expect some speedy stahstittite
from the Right lion. Gentleman, who ass ever so
aCtive in decrying the system of his predecessors,.
and made such promises of the wonders he could
himself effea, if he had an opportunity. One might
I reasonably have eepetted, from an Administration
which boasted of itself as comprising all the Winne
virtues, and .charaaer of the country—which was
vaunted of, as combining every thing that was.
great, nohle, grand, sublime, and magnificent ;
which included the Right Hon. Gentleman oppo-
site him (Mr. Winditam,) who had long before
prepesed in the House his cheesy of defence ; that
sues Ministers would not hare been so long its
making up their minds upon the subjea. It was
true, that some people might not think it wise to
agitate that which was deemed to be already
in a state of security ; but when the Home
recollected the frequent speeches of that Right
Honourable Gentthtrian, against a varied sys-
tem of volunteers, militia and regulars, and his
wishes to consolidate them all into one uniform unva-
tied desmietion, the advocates of a varied military
force had groun3s of apprehension for Ilse stabili:e
of the firmer system. In the speeches he alluded
to, he would not say that the Right Honourable
Gentleman spoke with contempt or slight of the vo-
lunteers in their individual and personal capecity,
hut having reprobated the system itself, as radically
defective and bed in principle, these volunteers had
reason to fear, that sir.ce be was now Minister, he
would not suffer them to etand any longer. Besides
all from this, his declaration that the Defence Ar'
would make no rent of hie new plan, the action
that system must now naturally be parelize2.
and no good ellhet ceuld be produced by it, in 111 r
iniereal ef the WSW measure being ptoprscd; o
that the Right !riot:. Genth man, ir.s:ead of furnish-
ing xsubstittate which should do all he promise:.
had actually Liirr:nished the existing military tr•
sources of the coutury. The :anxiety also now lei:
in the cou.itty, must tie augmented by the declara-
tion made on the other side, that the House was re
to look to the present Administration collec ively,
hut to the responsibility of each individual /Waists!.
in his particular department. For his own part, lie
would not consent to take the subject in that
light. He had himself a great respect for, sad
great hopes of public hens fit from the present ad-
ministration, particularly as it WAS under the ewe-
:ante r f one (Lord Grenville) whom he knew is
possess .5 great, powerful, and prealinninant spite;
but then lie respetted them only in the aggregate.
as he thought situations were entrpsted to some of
them, for which they were not qualified. lie lad
a high retpeet for the talents and capacity of the
Right Honout able Gentleman to whom he so often
alladed, but he believed 99 out of COO in the coun-
try would go along with him in disapproving d
him as a War Minister. A Right Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. Fox) in answer to a question with
regard to his intentions on a former night, referred
to his past condua for an answer; and if that were
the principle of all the present Ministers, he was the
more confirmed in his disapprobation of the Fr:-
sent War Minister, when he looked to his past core
dui, and found him so often arguing against
snres, to which, when in office before, he, Ice ,ti,
pears, was himself a party.
Mr. WINIJHAM denied his having made ant
declarations this night imptund to him, or that bt
was a party to all the measures adopted, when le
was before in ofsce ; as to the military system lac
adopted, he arraigned it when it was proposed.
wow that it was established, he found himaea
larreased with it.
'tr. WHITBREAD gave the Hon. Gentler
who opened the Debate credit for a deternerrl
and manly opposition to His Majesty's mien .ue
niters ; but in other persons be thought he 7,:-
eeived a disposition to en,nare them ; for toe Net' e
Lord who spoke lately, set out with saying, eh"
would be wrong to press them for any explinstici
of their plan, and afterwards entered into a discos.
sion oft • topics that were most likely to prey I.'
them. l'histigli he was no more res7.oesifte ter tl4
measures ash* menu, than for those of tie T 1
mer Miaisters, he had no besiteßun in asecruli
that they comprised as much talents, capacity. a 7
importence, as belonged to any Ad • dctratios
this country for several years past. 'llse
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Canning) who was IF
habit of comparing the qualifications of oe.!
ministration, with those who were their emu.
tors, now singularly declared, that he resee.e.e • °
present collectively, but • not individuaNy ; hey
that he did not like the pares as they wetc`
present. He insisted that Mr. % 1-
made
made the deeharations attributed to him. a• '
that Rt. Hots. Ger.t. highly disapproved of
systerrast defence, yet every rational seasn'-'

Bible of the impossibility of at once tearing it up font
and branches. He could not see any want of Ceiling I
ie the notice of reor,tl, given on the first day of the '
Session. the same thing might be thought eeces-
sary in some circumstances, that would not he so in
others. A motion for the immediate repeal of the
Parish Bill may be very proper, bad the former
Ministers continued, but need not be hurried now.
under an Administration which always disapproved
of it. In the last year, he moved for a list of the
balances in the hands of public officers, with a view
to propose a measure which would prevent that
from happening in future ; but he had no occasion
to do it now, as his Noble Friend (Lord H. Petty)
had given notice that he meant himself to propose
a measure to the same effeft. The Right. Hon.
Gent. (Mr. Canning) was net correft in stating that
the Parish Bill was paralized since the appointment
of the new Ministers ; as, in fan, that measure was
revel executed throughout the country ; and if it
had lately more vigour than before, it was pro.
duced by means of the errerpr employed to carry it
into effeft. As to the question respeEting pentlties,
he did not think it required any answer, for they
could not be enforced, as many of the Parishes were
unable either to pay them, or to raise the men re-
quired of them. The Right lion. Gent. had no
more right to-answer that, than he had to explain
any part of his plan. He, for one, did not know
what that plan may be ; but, from the talents em-
ployed in it, he made no doubt that it would be a
very good one. The time taken for bringing it
to maturity, did not appear to him to be, by any
means, unreasonably long, for the purpose of re.
placing a former one, generally allowed to have
been radically bad. The volunteers be could not
think to be so unreasonable, as to feel discontented
at a delay of six weeks, or two months. He was
himself a volunteer ; but he had no fears from the
principles of the present Ministers, am- were any, Ire
believed, entertained by the other volunteers et the
country. The Gentlemen on the other side should
not take advantage of difficulties, which they them-
selves create,' ; and the military, financial, and pre-
cautional ledures of the Noble Lord (Castlereagh)
were not applicable to difficulties which were the
reseir of his own measures.
Mr. Secretary FOX, in reply to the irony of
Mr. Corning, respefting the present AdminLtra-
tion comprising all the talents and charaCter
of the country, wished to ask him yr Letitia- any
man ever heard one of His Majesty's present
Ministers say so? For his own part, he could
not be so arrogant as either to say or think so,
whenever he looked to the other side of the House,
and saw there that Right Hon. Gentleman, who
certainly was not a Member of the present Admi-
nistration. He could
extravagant opinion, for he knew very well,
that them were in the country, men of very
great talents and charaifter, who were not in-
cluded in the present Ministry. The Right Hon.
Gentleman might indeed have heard or read such
observations, proceeding from the extravagant par-
tiality of friends ; but he need not be surprised at
Ah. that, after all the extravagant praises given, even in
vi that House, to a late Right Hon. Friend of his (Mr.
Fitt) of whom it was said, that it was on him, and
k him alone,' that all the hopes of the people et this
country rested. He could see no ground for the
Right Hon. Gentleman's saying, that 99 out of a
1011 of the people of this country would concur with
him in thinking Mr. Windham was unfit for the
office of a War Minister ; and it was strange, that
with that opinion, instead of saying, "turn this an-
qualified Minister out," the Gentlemen opposite
should only endeavour to hurry him on, by a nem-
. ber of questions, out of time, out of place, and nut of
all regular order. If they thought him so slow in
his progress, -it should rather be a reason for not
asking questions, and demanding explanations from
him, betore he was ready to afford them. He sup-
posed the late Mr.- rat would be a good authority
with that Right Honourable Gentleman, and yet
he never heard him express such an opinion of
his Right Honourable Friend. On the contrary, it
was very well known, that that Minister himself
not only supported his measures, as a War
Minister, for several years, but also on his re-
tura to office, desired very much, that he, as
well as some other persons conneCted with him,
should form a part of his second Administra-
tion, even after he had made all those speeches
which the Right Honourable Gentleman seemed
to be so much offended at. The Right Hon. Gen-
, tietnan said, that though he disapproved of his
Right Honourable Friend as a War Minister, yet he
• had confidence in the aggregate of she present Mi-
nistry ; but, before he niade that statement, and
complained of delay, he should have recolleded, that
Mr. Winaam's Writ was ealy moved on thb 7th cf
• February, and that only a month or five weeks had
since been emplied in forming and digesting
an extensive and comprehensive plan. Much
discussion had taken place on this sublet", before
Mr. l'itt came last into office, and yet it was four
weeks afterwards, before he proposed the Parish
• Ball, which was only a small part of a system for
the general defence of the c. untry I but when he
considered that he offered the same plan as a theory,
doping the administration of his predecessor, the
delay would be found considerably longer. If he
• had then been asked what the principle of his plan
was, and did not decline an answcr, he must have
said, that it was to do away the ballot ; and if so,
the same objeCtion that was made to-night would
• apply, that he was paralising the system then
going forward. Upon the whole, he could see no
good ground or motive for pressing these explana-
nons.hut he could at least conceive several bad ones.
He wnnld put it fairly to the Right Hon. Gentleman,
and, though that might bethought rather bold, even
leave it to his own candour. whether, if the m..tion
for a repeal of the Parish Bill had been made im-
• mediately by the new Ministers, he himself would
not have accused them of an indecent impatience to
obtain a hasty nitimph over their predecessors? He
slid not see any thing which ought to excite an alarm
.• amongst the volunteers, not the occasion there was
for attempting to impress them with any ; for it was
not inaprobable dust they may be very well pleased
with the new plan, after it should be developed. If
the Gentl roan thou;;;.t that these was too much de-
Lin it was their right and duty, as Members of Pat-
ti intent, to take the plan into their own hand..
When the system should be brought forward. there
w;;n1.1 be a fair < pportarnity of debating it fully, and

that would be the proper time for submitting what-
ever objeetions could be made against it.
Mr. CANNING, in reply to the appeal made to
his candour, acknowledged, that if the Defence
Aft had been repealed before the new system was
proposed, he should not only arraign it as an impa-
tience to obtain a triumph, but also have contrasted
. .

it with the condud of his Right lion. Friend de-
parted, who did not tepeal the at of his predeces-
sors, until he had a substitute ready to replace ir.
For same years, Mr. Windham had been saying,
that a proper system of defence might be formed hiy
any other than drivellers, by getting rid of the es-
isting incumhrances ; but now it appeared, that he
did not find the task so easy as he was in the habit
of representing it to be.
Mr. PERCIVAL acknowledged, that the proper
time for discussion would be when the plan should

he produced ; but he considered it to have been rather
irregular in Mr. Fox, to impute bad motives to a
Member for any questions he may ask. 'There was
however a good reason given for asking about
the penalties ; and as to what Mr. %Vhitbread
said, that the parishes could not pay them, he
sbould only observe, that he believed there
was no parish in this country which could not either
raise two men, or pay the penalties for rot doing so.
Had it been dist.naly stated, that the Alt was to
be repealed, it would have had one good effeCt, by
not leaving that matter in suspen'e.
Mr. FOX explained, that he ascribed no bad mo-
tives to any one, and had only said that he could
see no good one for those inquiries.

Dr. LAWRENCE agreed with the Hon. Gen-
tleman who had just sat down, that this was not the
time to enter into a discussion on the subjea. He
thought the condo& of the Gentlemen at the other
side was so extraordinary, that he could not refrain
from adverting to a tew particulars. They had re-
quired his Right Honourable Friend to make a
statement of certain parts of his plan, when he had
already declared, that the plan he intended to pur-
sue, was not entirely arranged. Their objea was
to induce him to make declarations, which hereafter
might be stated as a curb on his anions. But what
man would be so absurd as to make declarations,
n 1 en they were so likely to be mistated? when, in the
debate of that very night, such false representations
had been made of former declarations ? In fan,
they could not be depended on ; and he thought his
Right Hon. Friend had aced wisely in avoiding
them entirely. The Hon. Gentleman then as,erted,
that there was no consistency in the conduit of the
Gentlemen at the other side of the House; sonic of
them had approved cf the Bill for the Defence of
the Country, which immediately preceded this ; and
had then been the strenuous supporters of this, in
oppos:tion to that ; but at all times they had a great
propensity to shelter themselves tinder the name of
the great man who had brought forward this mea-
sure ; and when, at the beginning of the session, a
notice had been given which affeCted it, a request
was made, that the motion should be deferred for a
time, until he should be able to sit in his place, and
personally support it.
Tire Resolusions were then read and agreed to.
INDIA PAYERS.
Mr. PAUL said, that from the appearance the
House then had, he would not go at length into a
statement, but would content himself with first
moving," that the order of the 27th of-Jai:miry last
should be read."
The Clerk then read the order, which was for se-
veral India Papers, particularly respecting Oude.
Mr. PAC L then stated, that nine months since
he had moved for these Papers, for the purpose of
grounding a criminal charge against the Marquis
Wellesley, but though the Papers were ordered by
the House, they had never since been produced.
On the Ist of Feb-uary, he having moved for these
Papers in Januiry, an Hon. Gentleman ( Mr. Wal-
lace) came down, and moved for Papers, for the pur-
pose of defending the conduit of that Noble Lord.
The latter were instantly produced and printed,
while the former, which were to support the charge,
were purposely kept back. On these considerations,
he thought he was justifiable in moving," that a re-
turn should be made forthwith."
Mr. WALLACE said, he had often before stated
to the Honourable Gentleman the reason why these
Papers had not been before produced. At the time
the changes in Administration were likely to
take place, and that, of course, there was to be a
great alteration in the Board of Controul, the Gen-
tlemen who composes! that Board thought it better
to leave the Papers. colleted as they were, for the
inspeCtion of those who were to succeed them in
office, and to allow them to exercise their discretion
on them. With respea to the Papers for the de-
fence, which were produced before the others, he
had only to state, that they were colleted, and
ready for printing, at the time they were moved for,
and were, of course, instantly laid before the House.
Mr. Secretary FOX thought, that if the Papers
forthe defence were produced, and the others kept
back, the matter should be explained.
Mr. H. ADDINGTON said, that the Papers
with raper to Oacleortere so voluminous, amounting
to six or seven folio volumes, that though they were
left ready by the former Board of Controul, yet a
considerable time was necessarily consumed by the
present Board in examining into them, to ascertain
whether they could with propriety be laid before the
House.
After the order of the last Session, for several pa-
pers, was read, by desire of Mr. Fox,
Lord CASTLEREAGH rose, and went into a
detail of the various circumstances from which the
delay originated. He said, that towards the close
of last Session, when these papers were moved for,
there was no backwardness, on the part of the Di-
reCtors, to bring them forward; but they were so
voluminous, that it was impossib'e it could be done
in the course of that Session. When, at the com-
mencement of this Session, affairs took a different
turn, he was not ashamed to say, that, in conse-
quence of the charges which were about to take
piece in the Administration. he, and those who
aced with him, were not so constant in their appli-
tion to business. but left it to their successors to
examine into these papers, and consider of the pro-
priety of granting them or not.
Mr. CREEVY said, the papers would be made
cut as soon as they possibly could.
Mr. KERR 'crests-it...1 the idea of Gentlemen
moving for papers of such magnitude, which wets
uscltrs, in as much as few Gentlemen read them;

and it was bad policy to nuke the arairs of. India
public.
The questinn VIM then put, and the return order-
ed' tn be nude forthwith. _ .

Mr. PAUL said, it was not rrecessai y for him
to detain the House long, for the purpose of shew-
'iing that the Papers Ira had moved for, and which
he was to move for, were necessary to substantiate
his charges against the Marquis Wellesley. The
first charge Le intended to make against him was
with respect to his condud in the Carnatic ; tl:e
second, with resped to his condud in Nude; and
the third, with respell to his peaty with the Rajab
of Bhurtpore. The intention of the Noble Lord,
Ice supposed, was to d-fend the first on the ground
of the turbulent disposition of the Princes of
the Carnatic; the second, on the appointment
of Mr. Henry Wellesley, in Chide ; and the 'Treaty
with the Rajah,of Bhuttpme, which was the third,
on the expediency of the :aSe. Rut these defences
would have little avail. The Marquis Wellesley
had put in force a system of oppression which WAS
against every rule and every law; it was nut the
policy of this country to aggrandise herself at the
expense of the natives. Why was Mr. Hastings
brought to the Bar and impeached for high crimes
and misdemeanours, but for the purpose of making
an example of him, and preventing such conduit fur
the future? Why was the Marquis Cornwallis
sent over to Ity.ra, but for the purpose of repairing
the evils which had originated from the condo& of
his prt-decessor ? In fine, he conceived, that if no
retrospetive view were to be taken of events, the na-
tives of India would soon become discontented.

He then moved,
" That there should be laid before the House, cnpiec of ail
Letters and Inclo‘ures relative to the Prince of 54,at."

I

Earl TEMPLE said, though he did not mean
to oppose the produaion of the papers, yet lie
would enter his protest against gentlemen ccming
forward and moving for voluminous papers, with-
out stating any specific charge inten!ed to be
brought forward. In the present instance, the pa.
pens mere moved fcr, merely for the purpose of
fishing out a charge against his Noble Friend. He
was, however, anxious that the papers should be
brought forward, and that the Marquis Welles-
ley's condua should be investigated ; indeed, he
conceived, that it would now be doing no more
than justice to that Noble Lord. With regard to
Su•at, he would state how that place was partica-
larly circumstanced. Previous to 1;53, the Nabob-
ship of Surat had been, for many years, in the pos-
session of one family. In 1;59, a treaty was made
with the then Nabob, by which the castle and fleet
of S.Jlat were put into the possession of the Eng-
lish ; and in 800, the Marquis Wellesley tinned
into a treaty with the Nabob, by which the latter
was allowed greater privileges, and a greater ex-
tent of territory, than he had had for a considerable
time before, tmeethes with a yearly stir end of a lac
of rupees. The cordna :Jarvis Vs'elles'ey with
respell to Surat WAS irreproachable. Ilh; Lordship
then read, as part of his speech, the approbation of
the Direaors on that occasion. The Noble Lord
concluded by saying, that if the Honourable Mover
felt a sincere regard for the Marquis W ellesley,
he would bring forward the motion ; but if he felt
• regard fur himself, he would put the papers in his
pocket.
Mr. H. ADDINGTON observed, that when it
was said by him or his Noble Friend, that they did
not oppose the produlion of the papers, it was not
to be understood that they meant more than such
papers as were proper to be laid betore the House.
Ile then adverted to the transactions concerning
Surat, and concluded by informing the House, that
when these papers were produced, there were others
which should be hronght forward, and which were
sti.l more voluminous •
Lord FOLKESTONE was not prepared to
admit, that the Marquis Wellesley bestowed so
many favours on the Nabob of Surat.
Sir T. METCALFE did not conceive the Hon.
Mover hid made himself miner of the subjea, and
he thought it but proper, that he should set him
right. He then went into the history of the coun-
try, for a considerable time, stating the various
changes which had taken place, and the various
wars which had been carried on, from the consider-
ation of which, he thought it impossible that the
cond•t& of the Marquis Wellesley could be
thought oppressive. With respeCt to the papers, he
could not agree that the produCtion of them could
have no bad tendency. There was a past of
Which lay open to the attack of the enemy ; and be
conceived, that papers which exposed the whole
strength of the country, in every ear', were not 6t
to be produced. lie hoped the Gentlemen in office,
and thine whose particular province it WAS, would
pay every attention in reading them over, lest any
should appear in print, which would tend, in any
manner, to expose our weaker places to the attack of
the enemy. He thee pronounced an enlogium on
the coodua of the Marquis Wellesley ; and
stated. that if his plans had been pursued, that
country would now be in a much better state. Tire
Hon. Baronet then said, that however respraahle
the Hon. Gentleman might be, who brought for-
ward this Nlotion, the House should pause, before
it allowed, on slight grounds, a charge of high
crimes and misdemeanours to be brought against
A Governor-General of India. He knew it was not
popular to speak in that House of the expense of
printing papers; but he would surprise Gentlemen
some day, with a Motion to inquire into, and ascer-
taia the expeoce of printing useless India papers ;
a system which, if not put a stop to. would have
the most baneful dries.
Mr. H. ADDINGTON explained.
Dr. LAWRENCE said, he felt disposed to give
every credit to Marquis Wellesley for the energy
with which he had coaduand his Indian Adminis-
tration ; but he could not help feeling, also, and
the impression was augmented by the grounds upon
which the produaion of papers was opposed, that
there was something which required investigation.
Mr. Secretary FOX *aid, he thought it right to
reply to an insinuation which bad been conveyed in
the speech of an Honourable Direanr, that certain
Members of the present Administration had, since
their accession to office, evinced a change of
sentiment with rerpeet to the conduct of Marquis
Wellesley in India. If he were requ;red to give
a decided preference to the system of that Noble-
man's administration, or the system of Marquis
Cornwallis, he sbvuld certainly say, that the latter

was, in his opinion, most expedient. He had never.
hmctcer, entertained an opinion detrimental to the
credit of Marquis Wellesley ; nor did he, on the
ether hand, mean to resist any inquiry into the mesh.'
sures of his Lordship, which it :Might be thought
necessary to institute. As the charges had hems-
introduced by private members of the Home, be
did not think Ministers called 000 n to deliver their
opinions in this stave ; and where, as is this case,
an intestigotion affeding the honour and charader
of an individual was the topic, tu tnan would ap-
prove. that the influence of Ministers should be
esed to bits decision. If it were meant to be .aid,
that he had, out of office, given any eneiltwagemextel
to a charge' *Lich, in office, be intended to oppose,
lee assureilthe House, there was no found:l-ion fur
such a conclusien; and that, if the charge were
Nersisted in, he should come to the di oussion, With-
out the smeilest prepossession on the subjed:
Mr. HUDDLES lONE. after what tiedlallea
from an Hon. Baronet in the come.: Of this debate,
thought it proper to state, that the Churt of Direc-
tors of the East India Compaoy had no ohjeelion
to the ptoduaion of any papers that rmght he
thought necessary to an inquil y into the late ore,-
ceedings in India, and that they did not apprehend
any ill cons oquencee from the publication of the
papers moved for. He was iudoced to say &L.
lest it should be supposed, that what had been so
strongly expressed by the Hon. Baronet, respeding
Marquis Wellesley, were the sentlmerts of the Doi
redlors, with resped to the Administration of theta
Nobleman.
!Tir T. METCALFE said, he had not been de-
livering his opinion in the House as a Director of
the East India Company, bite exercising his judg-
ment as a private Member of Parliament.
Mr. R. THORNTON s.id, that front the manner
in which the Hon. Baronet had express-d himself,
he might well he construed to be deliveting a more
extended opinion than his owe. tie }Lc!, however,
stood alone in the Court of Directors, as the pone-
gyrist of Marquis Wellesley. whose conduct the Di-
rectors disapproved, and coneideri d extremely de-
trimental to the intere'?t of the Company. Thee
circumstance of the Court having been obi ged tw
send out another Noble Nl:de-tuts, to remedy the
injurious measures of his predecessor, was s suffi-
cient circumstance to rove. the necessity of
an inquiry. There were severll papers cone
neded with tie late Indian Adran.istratione
which ought to be before the House, and which
the East India Company would be very hepoy to
see investigated. After the suspicions which were
abroad, the House was bound to look the thing is
the Lace, and the country requited it.
Mr. PAUL hoped the House would allow lsint
to say a 'few words more. Even admitting that
the accusation against Marquis Wellesley, as far as
related to his impolitic oppression of ;he native
Princes. were not substooti 'tech there weeye: a most
solemn and substantial charge to ptefer agahert
him : it was that of most unnecesssaily squaw.
during rot fess a sum ti in 1,500,011:II. a year, and
of perveo.ing the public money from the uses to
which it was required to be applied by the Ad.
The Hon. Member stated, that is was hiskttentiqa
strenuously to per: in the high and .serious
charges he bad announced (particulerly with respek
to the illegal applioatiois of the public ionnoo) in
defiarfce of the sneers if Gentlemen, an 3 notwoh-
standing the enemies he had and might make, and
the friends he might lose.
The Hon. WI LLESLEY POLE wished to ask
the Hon. Gentleman, whether he intended- to
charge Marquis Wellesley with having' applied the
public money to his own use ?
Mr. PAUL said, he meant to say, he had applied,
the money to the incteese of his own splendour, and
to things not at all necereery.
Mr. POLE repeated the question. and said, that
as it would be the first tine in the Noble Ma:qtrishs
life that the breath of calumny had assailed him, in
so serious away, it would not be wondered at. that be
(Mr. Pole), evinced some solicitude to be apprised
of the precise nature of the charge. side di.sired
to know whether Marquis Wellesley was charged
with peculation, and the appropriation of the pub-
lic pulse to his private purposes? or whether it were
for an excess of expenditure upon the palace of Cal-
cutta ; upon his body-guard, and other things con-
neded with the Government, that the ailegation was
preferred ? _

Mr. PAUL again answered, that he meant to
charge him with having expended a large sum of
money upon his own convenience and splendour.
Mr. POLE was renewing his question. when the
SPEAKER, addressing Mr. Paul, said, that du
Honourable Member expe9ed an explicit answer
with repel ,to the particular bearing of the ch.., got
it was intercied to advance ; and the House did not
seem to think that given, at present, warsufficienily
precise.
Mr. PATIL—" The charge is .fer wasteful and
profuse expenditnrent the public revenue committed
to his charge, for his own consvenieace and splendor."
The SPEAKER then put the question On the
several motions, for the production of papers, u
made by the Hon. Mover in the early stage of the
debate, when

Mr. H. ADDING lON proposed, as an amcad.
:went, that the words, " so far as these various Jo•
cuments may be disclosed, without prejudice to the
public service," may be added to the aeiiginal
motion.

Mr. PAUL thought the objfe of this Amend-
ment. by withholding what the Hon. Gentltruan
might cisuse to consider State Secrets, would be a
great impediment to obtaining necessary informa-
tion.
Mr. WILBERFORCE said, be felt jealous of
the system of secrecy which was creeping into prac-
tice, as there was no knowing to what extent the
withholding of Papers might be carried.
Mr. HILKY MANN(' CON replied, that what
it was wished to withhold, merely related to certain
Papers respeaing the Indian coast. not relevant to
the point intended to be elucidated
The amendment was then carried.
The ffotre resolved itself into a COMMII:•P
Ways aed Means, when 4500,0001. was ordered t
be raised by loan of Excherrer Rills for the service
of the current year.—Reputt ordel ed to be received
to-mot rose.
The Committee of Supply was clef-erre." tt; to
Wednesday ; and tLe other Orders of the L .
being of, the liovse atourzei.