The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1807-04-25 00:00:00

PAROCHIAL SCHOOL SILL.

The Order of the Day bring read, tnt the farther
Rep art of the Bill for establishing Parochial Schools
throughow EviglAnd and Wales,
Mr. 1V1111:BRE.:1) observed, that this Bill was
totally independent of tie other Bil; relative to the
Pont's Laws, and ought, therefore, to be considered
on its own merits, and that this was the proper stage
of the Bia agreed on for discussing the subjea. It
appeared to him necessary, that some syster.2 of nu.
tional education sh sold be introduced, whether
any alteration should be ma !e in the Poor's Laws or
not. The present Bill being an exa.2 copy of that
which he originally had the honour to propose, there
was, therefore. as necessity for any delay. He
therefore moved, " That this Bill be re-commit-
ted," which being resolved, the question was then
per, t`iat the House do now resolve itself into the
said Committee.

Mr. F.LLISON wished this say& to undergo a
most mature examination, as it was part of a new
and extensive apnea) of alteration of the Puur's
Laws. This, and every other Bill, ought previous-
ly t go throrich the akimbo of that House, before
it went into toe country. He thought it would be
better not to press this, and the Hon. Genntlernan's
other Bills, through the House this Session ; but,
in the mean time, to have the subjea so matured,
upon a broad basis, as to be brought with greater
advantage before another Session of Parliament.

Mr. itOag said, as he was friendly to the prin-
ciple of the Bill, although he thought it capable of
amendments, he had no nbjeihon to its going be-
fore a Committee, when it could be improved or
altered in some of its parts. The Hon. Gentleman
who had introduced it, was deserving the thanks
of the House and of the public, tor taking so much
pains upon this subje& ; hot still he thought there
were deficiencies which required to be supplied.
The Bill did not appear to have snggetcd any plan
For finding employment for the poor. It proposed,
thar the children of the poor should be entitled to
rec-ive education fur two years, between the ages of
7 and 14. There was, however, among the lower
orders. a strong disinclination that their children
should be sent to school, or taught any useful work.
This count hardly ►e credited, unless by those who
had had occasion to witness the faa. as ha had,in the
neighbourhood where he herd in the country. He
was also doubtful, that the instrueion proposed
won►d not tend to promote in the poor an inclination
for agricultural occupations. He thought that the
Magistrates should have some power of constraint
over the parents of the pa ):, to bring their children to
receive instruetion ; and that in the Schools of In-
dustry. useful occupations might be blended with
instruEtion. At present, the Poor's Rates amounted
annually to nrarl7 five millions ; bto however high
the amount, there seemed nothing in the Bill intro-
" dured by the Hon. Gentleman, that went to dimi-
nish this expense ; he wasted, however, that by in-
traducing wise regulations, the expense of main-
' raining the poor might be lessr:.ed. He had for-
merly put his ideas on this subjea into a printed
form, and had particularly suggested the idea of
' forming Maritime Schools all round the coast, at
which boys mil.,ht be maintaindd at one half of the
expense which they now cost, (which he believed
was about 141. a-head) ; and also that every British
merchant vessel should be obliged to receive one or
more of these boys, according to the tonnage. He
proposed, that the boys in these Maritime Schools
should be employed in useful habits ; and also, that
they should be open for the reception of such b Sys
as should be sent from the inland counties. By these
means be calculated, that between 78 and iO.OOO
might be usefully br.might up every year. Mr.
Rose said, that after his plan was pi intrd, he had
teund the same system ably detailed in another pub-
lication.

Mr. FULLER Aserresl, that as the lion. Gent.
(Mr. Whitbread) had thought fit to divide his ori-
zinal Bill into tour Bills. this shewed that he bad
not at first fully considered the subjea of the Poor's
Laws in all its beatings; he could therefore wish
that the subje.ft should be deferred to another Sea.
sion, when the Rill micht be introduced dr neve,
with the benefit cf all the improvements which.
might is the mean while be suggested. As far as
the principle of the Bill.went to increase the com-
forts of the poor, he sincerely wished skit objet
might be obtained ; bin it behoved Parliament to
endeavour to give the poor virtue and morals. as
well as instrudion; and he also wished. that some
general pribciple should be adopted, that rewards
as well as punishments might follow; tsor tad he
approve of taxing parishes. in addition to the heavy
Poor's Rates, for the education of their e:Ailth.:n.
Mr. BULLER expressed his desire, that the
!louse should resolve itself into a Committee, where
any alterations br inipiovernelts which might be
su%gested, could be introduced.
_ _

RotiCOE observed, that to improve the
morals of the lower orders of the people. was in
itself most desirable. lie declared himself a friend
to the education of the poor ; and thought that the
Poor's Rates were likely to be lessened by means of
the proposed Improvements ; for he himself knew
certain parts of the coun:ry, where, in consequence
of schools being estaLslishel. the r.ecessity of the
Poor's Rates hadheen'inperseded ; and in some parts
of Sr-tland (where Poor's Rates were unknown).
and where the poor were almost all beggars before
schools were established, now a very chlerent
asped presented "► proper education would
enable the pour aka: watils •e= to provide for

themselves, whether by s maritime life or other-
wise. With respeft to the plan itsclf, laid down in
the Rill, he conceived it to be pleM, predicable, and
highly beneficial
Mr. CALCRAFT said, that after attending to
all he had heard, he was of opinion, that it would
be most desirable to go into a general rumination
of the entire toulsjeft, before the House came to a
conclusion en at(y part of it. Eves y measure th.t
tended to the amelioration of the coneinon of the
poor, would meet with his approbation. He was,
therefore, frienaly to the principle cf a national edu-
cation ; at the same tine, he thought, that Path i-
ment ought not to confine itself Merely tp a measure
of education to the poor, but aria to principles of
industry. One great advantage of a late mode of
education (Mr. Lancaster's) was, that it took up but
• small time of the scholar, whose progr uss in learn-
ing was JO rapid, as to afford opportunity also to
introduce teaching of trades and mantifeeures.
But he could rot assign the merit of this discovery
in education to Mr. Lancaster. for a gentleman, a
near neighbour of his, in the country (the Rev. Dr.
Bell, Rector of Swansea), had, so tar back as the
year 17i9, carried the same system into effect at
Madras, with all desirable success. Siace Dr.
Bell's arrival in this country, he had established a
school in his (Mr. Calcrefe) neielibaurliood, also
another at Whitechepel ; and alit;se it is the intention
of the trustees of that school, to unite habits of it.-
dastry with education. He wished to see this system
of education carried as speedily into effed as pos-
sible; although he was aware, that unless it were
accompanied with a sensible relief to the parishes,
many of them would look to the expense, and
mht prevent its being carried, generally, into ef.
fed; or, at least, only with a tardy hand. Upon the
whole, he could wish, that this measure might be
postponed till the whole subject of the PUtlei Laws
had undergone the fullest consideration; aed he
should think it advisable to establish, in the nest
Session, a Committee of Gentlemen to obtain infor-
mation from all quartere with a view of promoting
the revision of the Poor's Laws. He did riot know,
that carrying the present Bill into immediate effect,
would hinder this general arrangement, unless the
additional expense of these schools. • s the first in-
stance, might tend to prevent the adoption of any
future and more general 'pleas of regulation and
retain) of the pone.
Mr. H. ERSK [NE said, he shoeld vote for this
Bill now going into a Commieee. He consider-
ed the measure itself of educating the p lor, to be at
once auspicious to virtue, to religion, to happiness,
and to the industry of the poor, peiticulerly of
those of the south pelt of the island, and that both
here and hereafter. 'the Hon. Centletoan then
descanted, in high terms of panegyric, on ere mo-
rality, good order, industry, and regard for reli-
gion in the people of Scotland, whil t they ehjnyed
an almost total exempt. nit from the Poor's Rates ;
and all this he attributed to their good and early
education, and particularly to the establishment of
parochial schools (at the expense of the land own-
ers.) But in Scotland education did not stop at the
acquisition of knowledge or industry, but also isicul-
cated sobriety. morality, lied religion, and the pre.
vention of idleness, dissipation. druakeenen, and
vice. It was no good objcdion to this measure of
parochial schools, that it was attended wins expense,
for the same objediun might be made to any goal,'
such as the establishment of manufactories, and the
life ; fur such schools would eventually lead to mo-
ral, and also to political good consequences ; and,
at the same time, would prove a serious rebel to
poor parents. In a word, he was petsu.sded that
this Bill would draw down on the Parliament, the
blessing of the people.. and the blessing of God.
Mr. DAVIES GIDDY declared, that is his part
of the country, almost every man was taught to
read, write, and cast accounts. and the women to.
industry. But unless it can be made the interest
of poor parents to bring up their children to habits of
virtue, he doubted whether mere education would be
of any service to them. Well regard to the idea
of compulsory poor's rates, he viewed this system as
radically bad, for it went to dissolve the feelings of
the gentle charities or life toward. the poor and
the unfortunate.

Mr. SPZNCER STANHOPE considered the
success of the proposed measure as doubtful. Be-
sides, to provide schools and houses WAS easier
than to provide proper plasters and ttlisteeSteS ; the
extent of the expense in populous paddies would
also be very desirable; and suppo;ing the school-
maters to be obtained, he doulned whether they
could procure scholars ; for he united there was nu
intention to make the education of pox- children
compulsory; and parents who wished to make the
profits of their children's labour as early as possible,
woald not be inclined to take their boys from plough
to send them to school, without you at the sense
time made them an allowance equal to their chil-
dren's earnings. Considering also the distance
which, in extensive parishes, many children would
be at, from those parochial schools, it was not
likely that they would go to them.
Mr. SHARPE observed, that hardly any thing
had been said against the principle of the Bill ; but
the arguments made use of had been principally for
delay. The present was a subje& could have
no relation to party purposes ; rte wished, therefore,
to sheer to the people out of doors, that they were
ever willing to suspend for a time questions of a
political natare, that they might pay the first atten-
tion to topics of general utility. The question was
not whether 'a person should be educated at all or
not, but whether he should be well or ill educated ?
for if persons were not educated by parents' or mas-
ters, they would educate thensielves for evil ; far it
had been observed, that he who bad himself to edu-
cate, had generally a fool for his master. The gene-
ral force of experience was much in favour of this
measure. We hat not only the experience of Scot-
land, but also of the North of England, which, by
means of nose general education, excelled the
peasantry in the South. Education promoted habits
of industry, subtnission, discipline, emulation, and,
for certain hours iu the day, to be doing at least no
mischief;, all the elF:d of discipline was to create
3 great sensibility of punishment. Fie deprecated
la, dser delay.
Lord PORCHESTER was also against any far.
they delay than what might aecessarily arise out of
the dileolties of the case ; and as he wished that as
soon as might be the House would deoide en the
necessary or a national system of education, he was'

•
• •
for going into a Committee on the pretest Bill. re.
serving,tuture considerations to future times,
Mt. ROSE and Lord PORCHESTER seven;;explained.7
Mi. al NI EON said, it was impossible to diuln,
that educaiiun was a great national benefit t 10:t
there was no occasion for going to the North, ~.
fin.d instances of its advantageous eifeas. He
speeed the principles of the Reformation. 1.
thought that a great W 1.4111 of increasing ,
knowledge, would be, the instrue•ng nt the Ipw•
orders tit the people to read the Scriptures, wt
had been translated from a dead langii
to living. ur the express purpose of being •
by all classes of society. He, however, 43,1 , .
approve ct the plan of effeaing this (*lett h,
stituting a. national school. It appeared t
inconclusive reasoning to say, that because l!
been found necessary to institute one in Sc-,
in the year 1698, which was attended wit
vantage, it was thrreltwe necessary to e,
in 1807, in England. There was hardly 4 •
in the Burgh which he represented, ?het
not learn to read, their educatkn being :it r
rate of three-pence per week. He did cut a,
prove of their being taught arithmetic. •1:.
thought that it would be an extrentulv unwise
sure, to be laying a duty or assessment of onl a•
ling in the pound upon parishioners, to effea wfac
would not, in the end, tend to the general prosper
rity. It was, in as great degree, merely a %Kula-
live measure. There was no want of Ciaks in
every great town where Banks existed. On she /
scary, there were lather more than could procure
employment. 'Flue Bill would tinly tend to render
the poor dissatisfied with their situations, and in•
duce them to aim at others, by which they could
not procure a livelihood. He admired the system
which already prevailed, and particularly the Sun-
day Schools. In many cases it was difficult to pre-
vita upon the poor to send their children to thew
Schools ; and if so, upon Sundays, what was to he
expeded by compelling them to attend Schools up-;s
other days? Upon the whole, he knew not how t: e
Bill could possibly be extricated item its many r 5
kelonablr parts. '

Mr. GEORGE VANSITTART objeled to the
expense attending the establishment of ParoO.l
Schools, and was very doubtful as to the Poor of a
country being able to write, beiog set- adrantaee
to the community. To eatablish such Sc!sods, was
to do away all the Charitable Inuitutions for in.
titration, already instituted, and ve.,tald tend to d
much more mischief than good. He, howeve-,
should not objes to going into a Committee upon 1.,
as there might, perhaps, be some means of modify.
tag it. so as to make it beneficial to society.
Mr. BATIWRST said, so Many doubts
were entertained, concerning the probable effeets
of such a Bill, that he was inclined toi think
very little advantage could be derived from it. it.
was a measure which he kaew had already ar
peared objeSionable to many of his Constitute:,
and others throughout the mammy. It tendei:
to produce a spet.ies ci:" education much beyond
what is necessary for the poor in their conirnr,n of-
fices of life. Tiic case of Scotland had no sou of
application to the present consideration. That p.rt
of the kingdom was, indeed, rapidly novoitching
into a stale of great cultivation, and even of loamy;
but was this to be solely attributed to the means af.
forded for education t Was it net to be attributed
to the spirit of industry, sobriety, and natural
abilities of the Scotch people?' To force upon
the poor of this country a system of education,
would only be creating it, jury to agriculture,and per-
haps even to our manutaetures. The state of so-
ciety, and die manners of the people in the two
countries, were very different. Education must
be voluntary, and then it would be attended with
beneficial effeils. The plan itself was much too
extensive fro any one Bill. How was it possible to
apply it even to this metropolis?' The people
could easily be instruffed in the Scriptures, although
they were not able to read, there being already
ample means furnished for that desirable purpose.
It was impossible to suppose, that because schools
were instituted, the means of instrndion were pro-
vided. The labouring poor would not send their
children, to continuo for the space of two years
under that wholesome discipline which was intend-
ed to be administered ; they would rather choose to
beneGt by their labour. instead of having them
learning to read and write. He was very doubt:al
if it would be possible to modify it.
Mr. WILBERFORCE said, that he thought the
House and the Country acre under great °blip
Lions to the Hon. Gentleman who had introduced
this measure, as it must have required much esti.
Lion and attention to make nut lour such Bills as
those before them ; but at the same time he could
not help thinking, that Pat liament ought to proceed
with great caution moon such a subjea. They wart
now uadertaking, for the first time, a great wori,.
which had been too long delayed, the diffusion of
the benefits of education ; and therefore they ought
to take care lest it mitot not prove .preys
elicits' in «one respells, while it was advan-
tageous in others. He could gaol). conceive many
modifications which such a Bill might undergd, and
amongst mhos, the com Sining (.1 voluntary cc,i-
tributions, according to the different circumstances
of places, and the means of instruction vino lr
each might possess ; and, therefore, he appi,v.-,
of the 11011!!! going into a Cummittee. The sic...
raging a desire in the lower orders cf the people
better their situation, did not appear to him an r`.
jeitionable part of the Bill ; because, it was DAN
rid 'diet hope should exist in the breast el ever
one, to push himself for ward in :he scale of hurro,
beings. As far, however, as he had been able
observe the disposition of the country, as
this Bill, it had cot been received so favourably ask
could have wished. He himself had received vanoto
representations against it, prin.: ipally on accomit ot
having bee .s presapitately intr.iduced. Although
was fur going into the Committee, he was
press', ig it for.vard afterwards till such time as fo•
liament eimil be informed more particularly
the the real sentiments of the country regaril;ng it.
agreed in regard to what had been sold cl Scotland.
and ascribed a good. deal of that order an:l m'^•l
condua, industry, and rectitude, which pi, railed it,.
that pert of the cr"ntry, to their generui system sr
education. It wonl.l be important th:i: the systssu,
now to be adopted here.stionid be ecoubioed with OS
dune advaauges which made men valuable sn:ID•

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hen of ,xkly, saj asesitontsd them to be obedient
„off command end cant.t.ml. He approved
boy of the plan which bad been suggested that
o'vht by a Right Hon. gent. Cdr./tor) as to com-
h; '^
ning it with the institution of a Maritime School.
I:, professed himself to be a friend to the Bill in '
-”ral, although he was convinced it was suseep-
of various important improvements. He
wed he should have to congratulate the Hon.
;•,otleman who had introduced it, in having thus
; 1 the foundation of a system which would yet be
, otnthol with the most beneficial effects upon So-
: tn".
WINDFIAS4 said, that the acknowledged
c',Jot of the Bill, namely, that of amehoratinn the•
oaatinn of the poor. was what every one must
:,prove of ; hut the question came to be, was it
I pelt' to have such a beneficial died ? He had ,ho
Jo no in his own mind, that it ought, at all events,
to stand over for another year, as the subject of the
Ldl could not have become all of a sudden so pres-
sing as to prevent its being deliberately submitted
to the general consideration throughout the coun-
try. It was a matter which required experience,
;Ind involved local circumstances and considerations.
The system of education, and the system of the
eimal fund. bore some connection with one ano-
n .r. The rapid introduction of this new system,
showed the short-sightedness of mankind : for
voiat were the House doing, but endeavouring to
:Aire a system established by our ancastora,
during a long period of time, had been
:teemed excellent in its nature ? Was the
Otatute of Qtteos Elizabeth so i.-nperfed, as that
we should now stand aghast, and say, that we
cannot delay one single Session in :dieting it com-
pletely, and carreeting the System of the Pont's
Laws The House ought to look to the state
of those nations, where letters were unknown, lied
sav, what benefit is actually derived to the corn•
enmity, from a general system of Education ? Let
them say, what is the consequence of ignorance
existing amongst savages? Does it render them less
1,..,2py, virtuous, and moral, than more civilized na.
tinti? The poorer dusts of society less wanted Edu-
cation. in proportion as those in other classes have it.
Every individual in a nation muse necessarily par-
take of the benefits arising from the education and
sepeilor knowledge which prevails amongst some of
their number. What is a nation without teams,
shoemakers, and carpenters ? But is it necessary
that every person in a nation should be iosruden in
these arts? Was it necessary, because a few of them
may have a taste for music, poetry, arid paining,
that all of the inhabitants should become mucciaes,
p )Is, and [minters ? This was evidently a forced
aseasere to infuse knowledge, or rather, merely the
means of acquiring it. If a man be taught to read
and write, he must neeetsarily be under the neces-
sity of devoting his time from morning to night to
aoptire knowledge. Were they sure, that they
were conferring upon him a great boon by so doing?
Of that they were conferring upon him A source of •
?knowledge that would ultimately prove beneficial to
Dire, or to society? A few men may, perhaps,
rise, and a few may be benefited in consequence
of such education, but the great bulk of them
most remain in a situation in which one could
hardly say that it would he of the smallest use.—
In short, it would be injurious to the individuals
themselves, and dangerous to die community. lf,
by setting tiom a thinking, we lould teach theirs
to think well, benefit would undoubtedly result.—
Bet are we sure that by givulg them the means of
kuowiedge, we are not giving them at the same
time the means of erring ? He remembered of con-
versing with Dr. Johnson upon this subjed, and
frond that he was of opinion, that such kind of
literature as that now proposed by this Bill, would
be injurious rather than AdvAntageaus to that class of
society; although he could not help thinking it would
be beneficial, were they able solely to read their
Whies. Were they at all able to read, was it to be
sooposed that the lower classes would confine them-
selves to reading their Bibles t Would they not ra-
ther devote their Sundays to reading Sunday News-
papers, and polttical Trod' ? Would their instruc-
tion be good or bad? Would they linen to the
teachers of truth, or the teachers of error ? This Bill
was to vet men to thinking.who could not think well.
It would be fur the interest of every free Govern-
ment, were it possible to be arained. that all politi-
cal diseerninos sliould be confined to those who are
really competent to them Nothing is so little true,
as that becaos.: a matt is much interested in a quer
Con, he is competent to the discussion of it. Upon the
same principles of reasoning, every man ought to
be his_ owo phesicien, ann every child his. own
schoolmaster. (.s leugio). The 4:4 of thl. insti.
theretore wouid be, that it would let in a
Loge class of ;he community to the consideration
sod discussion (.f tioestions, in which they are, no
&tub!, mete' Lally inter, tied, but which they
are extremely ie:apaolat of manN,eiug. Trials
nould, MOted, gain nothing ; but error a great
d"4;. by multiplying thiokers, we should
multiply the chances of error, instead of the
chances of meta. The example which had beets
stated in %Ilpi,ort of this Bill, was that of the
Scotch ; Voir education, in reading and writing,
beusg superior to the lower class in this country.
He might observe, there was an old saying, when
a man is hanged for 6 rgery, that " CI this comes
of his reading and 'seinen." Why was all the su-
periority of the Scotch tit be attributed to their read•
leg and writing ? Did not every nation diar Runs
onother, in their ratural genius and disposition?
Was such difference in nations to be attributed
solely to the proportion of knowledge disseminated
amongst the lower classes of society ? The soil,
climate, and, above all, the breed, makes the dif-
ference. Were there nut also differences amongst
the h ~-;:ter orders of the community ? Winis we
End the Scotch sober, itaitastrious, discreet, careful
of the tutu**, was it nut as proper to say, that
that disposition was the ilium of their reading aod
a•oiting. as that their reading and writing was the
ertu:.e of that disposition 1 We find the Scotch tun
a very migrating people. The real fad is, that their
natural disposition and their education naturally opts-
rate the one upon the other; but it was not always
from thence to be inferred, that the civilian*" acid
moral, upright, and orderly combat of a nation,wiss
owing to their education. Have we act 1111 instance
the contrary in France, the Hagman@ of Letters,
We have there an eassopie to show
Of why a na-
ties ought sot to be forted wits last man& His

Hon. Fslend (Mr. Whitbread) had said, in his
speech upon We sublet of the Poor's Laws—.
01 See what an unenlightened mob,will do." But
he (Mr. Windham) might, on the other hand, say
to him—" See what an enlightened mob will do."
The French were acknowledged by all nations to
be mast enlightened and well informed, and a most
ingenious people; but what has been the result of
their information ? The events of late years w,.u'd
explain what ravages and outrages they had corn-
matted. He eenki not conceive how it was to fol-
low, that by giving the poor this degree of instils:-
60n, they w. re to be rendered less miserable or less
subje.2 t p sverty 64n they actually were. Upon
this print, the Scotch had been again cited as tr-
amples. It had been acknowledged that the prsc•
tine of instruling in reading and writing, had, as is
Scotlan•f, become more general in the North of
England; and yet th- Poor's Laws had been in-
creasing. Now, however, it was said, mtietiply
instruction, an,l you get rid of the Poor's Laws."
In this there was an evident i;:consistency. The Bill
would tend to increase the vanity of the peo-
ple. It it be true that writers produce readers,
so would it hold true, that readers would produce
writers. In place, therefore, of giving them real
useful keowledg►, it will either. make them think of
becoming authors, or make them the prey of du!
and designing men. If, by this Bill, it could
with propriety be said, that they will be pre-
vented front being poor, it might with as great
justice be said, that they might be equally pre-
vented from being poor, by teaching them to
play upon the fiddle, and making them all mu-
sicians. Music, they say, snftens the heart, and
soothes the savage breast, and therefore it twilit to
be as useful in ameliorating their situatinns,as read-
ing and writing. Upon the whole, he really thought
that dangerous political cnnsequetices might arik, if
the lower class of the people, upon fancying them-
selves well informed, should t..ke upon them to de-
cide as to the propriety of peace or war, throwing
aside reason, and appealing only to their passions.
He thought that the poor had already as much in-
struaion as was good for them; any more would
only ;endue* unhappiness and discontent, and there-
fore is became the House to consider the question
minutely before they proceeded further with such a
Sill.

Mr. WHITBRKA D answered the observa-
tions of his Right Hon. F;iead (Mr. Nish harn)e
in a most able and argumentative speech. He
never could subscribe to the doarine, that public
education was incompatible with political welfare ;
that because the kill aledge of the individual Ras
increased, therefore the happiness was en-
dangered. The examine of those countries, where
public education wis made the objo of public
concern, and w ere the diffusii n of knowledge was
general through-u: ail classes of society, fully il•
lisstrated the w.s.l sm of that policy, which tended
to enlighten the bum in mind. and of course
to increase the sum of human happinen.—His
Right !knowable Fiend (Mr. Windham) had
adverted to the high cheek-bones and manly stature
of the inhabitants of the northern parts of the bland ;
he descanted on the vigour And athletic prowess of
the Niothionorians; but in answer, he would con-
tend that it was not by physical difference. or physi-
cal superiority, that the exc.illence of man, in his
individual state. or his contribution to the general
welfare, was ascertain, dor estimated. it was by
the moral chsrviaer, by the exercise of his mental
endowenents,and by the performance of his social du-
ties, that he either fu tilled the end of his ezisteace, or
enlarged the share of his own comforts and happr-
nes, When he heard opinions stated in hostility to
the extension of education, he could not abstain from
desinng those who advocated such opinions, to look
to the state of society in this great metropolis. Let
them refkft upon that aggregate of distress, misery.
vice. and depravity, which unfortunately was too
prevalent throughout every pan of it. It a calcu-
lation was made of the wretched viaims to the in-
jured and violated laws of the country, the result
would prove, that they were of that class, who, in a
state of brutal ignorance, were consigned to the
guidance of their own depraved habits, without
either a sense of religious duty or moral feeling.
Search the Calendar of the Old Bailey, or inquire
into the state of the Hulks, and of what class will
the great propnr.ion of the wretched criminals be
found i They will be seen to belong to the unfor-
tunate and laborious pour of the Irish nation, who,
deprived of the means and benefit of education and
support in their own country, have been too fee.
qu •nt i forced, 4' the agoniting effeas of want and
calamity, to violate the laws of the land, and to
trerpass on those intellects of society, which it was
their duty and ultimate benefit to support. His
Right Hon. I'riend (Mr. Windham) had quoted
Mr. Malthus, an authority of great and deserving
weight, upon the nature and clefts of the Poor's
Laws. He had also endeavoured to draw from the
writings of that eminent author, a corroboration of
the opinion which he (Mr. Windham) had that
night delivered. But what said Mr. Malthus is
the letter, which, upon the present subjeel, he was
so kind as to address to him (Mt. Whitbread).—
‘• Elevate the minds and chars er of the lower
ciatses of society," said Mr. Malthus, "and you will
improve the individual comforts, and increase the
sum of general happiness; and the best and only
means of effeaing that elevation will be by diffusing
the benefits of education amongst the lower classes
of society." Mr. Hume and Adam Smith were of
a similar opinion. But a danger hat been appre-
hended from this shffesion of knowledge amongst
the lower clasies of the State. They will, it has
been said, be rendered subjeft to the views of agita-
tars, that those hewers of wood and drawers of
water. will read the Sunday Newspapers, and of
course be the prepared psi (Mips of demagogues arid
interested politicians. l'o sbch an objedion. the
best answer WAS, that the artful incendiary found
the greatest number of proselytes amongst the un-
informed; that his best allies were brutal ignorance,
and unsounde4 delusion. In fait, where would
the incendiary or demagogue saturant look for
the support of their cause. or fur the propagation
of their principles i Where. bet amongst the
ignorant, the prejudiced. the uneducated, and, of
courses the deluded t It bad been observed,
that the people did not want this (Winslow
of knowledge i that. as the bums* body was com-
mitted to the care and guidance of the physician. so
the political system was best is the bands of those

•,

• .. •
who could t pecir;de for the wants and
distresses of majority. Allowing the force of
this ingenious simile. it was not digressing to ask, or
to put it to the judgment of the House to conceive,
how proportionably augmented would the safety
and relief of the patient be. if he was acquainted
with the nature of his disorder, if he was compe-
tent to decide on the manner in which it originated,
sad the symptoms attended it; if, in facet, he
was able t" give his physician that information,
which would form the surest grounds for the regu-
lation of his opinion, and therefore the most certain re •
comerendatioa of the remedy which he should feel
it necessary to prescribe ? If small societies were
taken as a rule by which the judgment might be
formed, the excellence and superiority of the edu-
cated would be visible. An of jeftion to such a
position has been founded on the (mina: eircum•
star:ces which affent particular places, and which by
en means extend their influence generally. Take the
ag4regate of man, assembled from different parrs,
not only of private communities, but bronght ints
one society, from various portions of the w,xld, and it
will be uniformly found. that the most v4rtious were
those who received the most general instruaion.
With respell to the diffi:ultirs which have been
stated to the advancement of a pnblic education,
he would contend, that when the key or a lowledge
was once given, and the door unlocked, mental ex-
ertion mud !Inman persevere ice would pursue the
path to ultimate and general advantage. The
Hon. Member panegyrisei the anie plans rind
scholastic systems of Dr. Bell and Mr. Lan-
caster, noel he was confident. that if they were
extended throughout the country, the greatest
praftical benefit would be the consequence. Such
systems hal the advaatage of combining, in the
same period of instruaion, both reading and writing;
at the same time that they communicated mechani-
cal information. they promoted the precepts of mo-
rality. 'rt. Bills he proposed, 'vent to consign such
education to tile Ministers of the G who cer-
tainly possessed more rime, and whose more imme-
diate duty it was to attend to such impr..ant and
necessary concerns. The Hon. Mernher concluded
his comprehensive and able reply, by declaring his
coatis:lion. that it was to the benefits of a public
education the country had to look for the surest
proteetion against the crimes of individuals, or the
disorders cf a multitude. The ignorant and brutal
population of Paris had furnished to the world a
lamentable example of a sanguinary. infuriated, and
ignorant multitude, seduced and managed by de-
signing agitators, and unprincipled incendiaries.
Mr. %VINDHAM and Mr. ROSE explained.
The. CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
did not conceive the general abstraft principles upon
which the Hon. Member founded his measure, a
sufficient inducement to change and destroy those
laws which had the 'nation of long experience. lie
could not consent to the deditaions which were
made from the reasonings of Mr. Mathes, inasmuch
as they went to assume that which the state of the
country completely contradided ; namely, that the
population of this country exceeded the means of its
subsistence. The want of soldiers and s•-amen for
our armies and navies, fully convinced him of the
fallibility of such a statement.

The question for gcing into a Cam:ranee was
then put anit carried.
The first crause of the Bill being read by the
Chairman,

Mr. CAREY said, h: vri.hed to make someob-
servations upon the g-neral tendency of this Bill.
Mr. WHI [BREAD immediately rosy and said,
that if any Gentleman had any amendment to pro-
pose to this clause, he should be happy to hear him
upon it ; but if it was only general observation. he
could not see the necessity of the Hon. Geatleuran's
remuks at that time.

Mr. CAREY replied, it was his intention to ob-
ject to the general compass of the Bill.
Mr. MELLISH proposed, that the Chairman
should report progress, and ask leave to sit again.
Mr. CAREY said, that having no particular
clause or amendment then to propose, he rather
wished the question acij9urned for a future oppor-
tunity, er'.:en h. should deliverbis sentiments upon it.
Mr. SIMEON thought it implssible, from the
multiplicity of objects which this Bill embraced,
and from the lateuess of the hour, that the Corn-
mittee could come tasany determination this night;
and he was sure it was not Cie wish of the Hon.
Gentleman who brought forward the meature, to
press it upon the House against the general inclina-
tion, but that he would give them sufficient oppor.
tenity of considering it.
Mr. GIDDY rose to answer a gimps put by the
Chancellor of the Exchequer; when
Mr. 110BHOUSE observed. that the question
before the Committee was, that the Chairman do
report progress.
After a word or two from Mr. GIDDY,
Mr. WHITBREAD said, that wishing to give
every Hon. Gentleman an opportunity of consider.
ing this measure fully, belted not the law ohjedlion
to the Chairman's reporting progress ; at the same
time he begged leave to observe, that the Bill had
been on the fable since the month of February last,
for the purpose of giving Gentlemen fall oppor-
tunity for considering it; he, therefore, wished it to
be understood. that Gentlemen would come fully
preEtred with their amendment. when the Hon*
should again go into Committee.
The Chairman then reported progress, and ob•
tained leave to sit again on Monday next.
Mr. HORNER then moved, 44 That Sereb Ben
rose, who had been brought up from Shrewsbury,
pursuant to the Speaker's Warrant, to appear before
the Shrewsbury Committee, which she at first had
refused to obey, and was now in the custody of the
Serjrant at Arms, should, under the peculiar circum-
stances of the ease, be discharged."
The SPEAKER said, it was quite unusual to
disiharge persons who had been committed by the
or4er of that House, for contumacy. unless under
very peculiar circumstances, which should be stated
to the House.

Dr. Hanbery was then called in, and stated, that
Sarah Barrow was very far advanced in pregnancy,
and it might be atteadvd with dangerous conse-
quences to her bite, to call her to the bar of that
House.

he was then ordered to be discharged, upon pay-
Mini of her fees.

The ether Orders of the Day were thee disposed
of, and the House adjoaroed.