The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser.
London, England, 1819-03-03 00:00:00

COAL TAX.

Lord J. TtIYNNt presented a Petition fiom the trihalri
tants of Bath, praying that no alteration should be wade its
the duty on Coals—Laud on the table.
Mr. Ltrrherox rose to present a Petition from flip inha-
bitants of Wolverhampton against any alteration in ilii• duty
on Coals. When it was recollected that the populoter teat,
and neighbourhood from which the Petition came sere
deeply interested in the cheep supply of this article, he hid
no doubt that proper attention wuuld be paid to their ri -
quest. The population of this district, amemitiog to
150,0(h) perilous, depended for their subsistence ou the uun-
manufactuee—and perhaps the House were uut :mare ILA ir
tax of orse.shilling per tou on Coals, would create s. dater.
cure of 13s. Oil. ou a tuts of iron, manufactured in Nl.itriari..
shire. It haul been stated, that a tax of one shilling per toi.„
imposed, geuerally, on coals, would produce as large u cut
as that now raised on coals carried coastwise. This ass in.
cursed, a. he would prove loom dila, poly furnibbed be
the House, and partly burrowed from the evidence of Iss
opponents. F these sources it would appear, that a tax
of 2s fhl. or 3e. a tun would be necessary to raise the sum at
present collected on coals carried coastwise. What would
be the effect of such nn impost? It world raise the value of
iron about 30e. • tun, and thus injure very materially the
export of that article—and it would necessarily have an nn-
jutious on a variety of other manufactures, whose
prosperity de:witilr d on a cheap supply of fuel. The Mir.
Member for Bri-tut (Mr. Protheroe) had described h,s (M..
Littleton's) constituents to be in a most flout i.hing stair.
The contrary wss the fart—they were in a situation of grrat
poverty and distress. 11 was true, the smelter of iron ens at
present Fell emp:oyerl, and, consequently, he was mu a pros-
perous situation; hut the manufacturer of smaller attic...A
of iron was in great distress. The individual, for iredsuce,
who msunfacttu. it nails (of which article a vast number were
made in Staffordelitre„ worked 12 hour, a day, and ibis
ceKhive labour predireed him only 9a. per week, a suet main-
fr ally inadequate to his subsistence.
Mr. litoßwat expressed his hostility to the equalisatieti f
the tax on coals. Those on whom the impost *mold fall, it
an alteration took place, were, at present, scarcely atm, to
earn their subsistence, and it would be unfair to derire
them of soy advantage which their local situation afforried.
Mr. PROIBERoe said, the Hon. Mentor fur Siaffordsls re
accused him of having fallen into a mistake, when he siet r-
ed, that bus constituents were in a prosperous sitnati .... II
appeared, from what the lion. Member had Void, that it
distress prevailed amongst some of them. He would till the
Hon. Member, that a great deal of that diverses alone from
the high price of coals, which was occasioned by the eve(
quantity of that solicit. exported from Staffordshire, ewe's
to the coasting duty. In the manufacture of sarihr on .+r
and in other branches of trade, great injury was es per icin3te
from the existing system.
Sir ISAAC COFFIN said, that the proposition for Sq11311:41.
SS it was called, the duty on costs, would be virtrimby ID wage
War against poverty and penury. If the tax w, ev taken .41
in Laudon, it would be laid on at the pit's iAorith, and
would thus press heavily on the poor. As to the trosi-nsavin
they would, no doubt, take good cue of 'licensed's( s The
Hou.Gent lemon (Mr. Protheroe) who supported the equals-
Salton, would not be backward in placing an 31.11altion of 3s.
per ton on his iron, in order to meet the increased expritsi
Sir It. WILsOW said, this question ought not to be i:e-
eidled by the feelings of prejudice, but by a just view tat the
avensity of the case. He would ask, if the duty now le-
vied were generally beneficial to the country, why entlit
it set to be borne by the country at laigc Could the Hon.
Member fur Staffordshire justify the inesitig a pail's! tax,

on a pulienlar Part of the comnitinity, the produce of
whirl' was applied to the benefit of the country, grmerally?
So 1. GRAHAM said, it woo. nut intended to lay this burs
den on cool* sold at the pit's mouth. The object was, to
relieve coals carried ettilahriPt from the existing duty, hot
set to impute it on coals at the pit's mouth. lie never
vidil support such a measure.
tic LITTLF.TON wished to know if Gentlemen did not
'Ara to impose the duty on coals at the pies month, whbst
„„ the meaning of the term equalisation, which was e
fiend in all the Petitions.—(flear, Asnr.)—Wbether they
resat to impose • duty nu coals at the pit's 'north or not,
he bell red they would not he able to alter the present rya.
leis, This he was convioced of, whether he looked to the
spirit which was every whets risiint against the alteration.
4., in the impracticability of the thing itself. So far back as
the year 17P5, Mr. Pitt made a similar plan of equalisation,
pot of his Midget. But, in a few darn, he was *Mixed to
,ve it up; for be tumid, that, Ville manofactitrers were ex-
/mord (rum the tax, as in jualice they ought to he, the Wm-
4,6cations would be so numerous as to create treat confusions
mat inconvenience, The Hon. Member fur Southwark (Sir R.
Itdson) inquired, whether he eloull 1w suitor, to recoils.
wend a partial tax? That was a quo whirl, it was ant
necessary for him to answer. Oi this he was sure, that as
alteration of the nature intended euu!d nut he made in the
existing laws, without producing a most mjurtaus revel•
sum in trade. He begged also to remind the Himourahle
Member for Southwark, that though lii• eimatiturats paid
a considerable duty on coal., they derived many advantages
CASs litter situation which individuals in the Muggy parts
of the kirigiloin did not posersa. Almost all the workers of
coals it/ that tool of the country which kr represented were les•
sees, and they hail recently experienced considerable hardAiips.
Two honest and upright individuals hail been obliged to throw
ap their knees, and the [milord. were compelled to keep nn
workme the mines at a great expense The P.1.1e. Wit.]
also were so extravareutly high in that pert of the *sloops,
that the utmost ditficnlty was foetid in their mile,
Had it not been for a Noble Peer, whose nun,. fr mo-
tives of delicsey, he would not alenti tttt , the state of the
poor would have been deplorable indeed. That horissite
dividual had **milked a great portion of his income, for
she purpose of keepiag the pour employed—amt the priori.
lat Wl' 1111184 assisted exhibited so instance of r and
(isolator, they could not exhibit, fur it was not within
their resell!. which was scarcely to be witnessed iit any

other part England.
Sir R. Miami conceived it to he a great hortlvhip, that
the 11011( of the Borough of Southwark mud Of the City of
I.liplou .liquid pay 9.. MI. duty per cliddilown in their coals,
•hike the pour iu Qtr country did not pay one farthing.

Alderman INSITUASSI A aid, there w.• at present on pro-
position brfore the House for laying a tax generally on
having attended several Mssetiosts in the City of
Loudon. assembled fur the purpose of considering the n-
pi let)! of carrying into effect an egnalisali 11l of the duty on
goals, h.• a biked briefly to state his mentiencitis on the sub-
ject At none of those Meetings did be perceive a wish or
feeling to heap slit burden, in the shape of a tax, on their
fellow subjects in the• eiiutrs. Those who met in consult
us the subject wished to be relieved from this ditty altoge-
ther He was ,tot himself af, lend to taxation, soul he felt
..• _

its meaner. pretty severely ; but lie had no desire, in getting
' of it, th..t other persons should hear the burden for him.
TI to protect themselves float a very serious Vire.
late. 'lli* Citizen'. of London paid 94 10th. per elhaldron nn
tea's-orrahlud to which was the expense uf freightage, Ore profit
t . the merchant, and other ineid. nial charges, all whicti
ulti-
rn]tely fell on the poor coorom. r, ae well as on the rich
tint; th refire.. it was that the City o•f London prayed for an
sitetation. Now, if the tax were tort wholly given up, it
was hut fair that it 'Mould be egoallzed. It was not fair
for Gentlemen who procured coals, without any duty what.
rv.r, and manufacturers who had iron, lime. and rust,
ready to their hands, to complain that they would be griev.
..usly oppressed if ass equalization took Mare. The mem.-
factureip in London were obliged to war rap 'mail's, a va-
riety of heavy t allegros. not one of which affected the ma-
souracturer or the country. The fact was, that i■ London
the poor could not hey coals fur their necessary eua-
►umptiuu. Sirbscrii.timis were entered iatir every win-
ter, ciao, iir purchase costs In be given away to the
pour gratis, or to let them have that necessary of life
at a very cheap rate. The mansfarturera in the reentry
should 'cruller", when they uppoied an alteration in the
dots on foals, that the Citieens of Loudon, who mitTered so
much front the esisting tax, were very eatestrive customers
for their commodities. Wunkl those individuals who owned
coal-mines, and who had a .ply of the coal trade, feel
xrll pleas. .I if the City of Lonrho, were allowed to proem,
coals elsewhere? He had bre told that there were coals in
the soil of Blackirealli—( Hear, and o iawsk)—and in Va-
-1 parts of Sussex. It mattered nut whether the state-
ment were true or nut; lint, be would ask, whether the coal-
would he pleased, if their mistioners i.nilterouri,l to
• re Overarch vet tram sources gleam, twins ? Ou nue soyall
stream, Ilse W'moolle, in the viciuity of London, there vs .• a
Koestler ruttr in of manufactures tamed on, than on ant rolo r
titer of the same sisc in his Majesty's dnnnuions. 'I he pro-
perty employed in that district was considerably lessened in
• iu consequence of the duty on coals—and, he !obeyed,
precisely the Came iihikertiatioll would apply to all the Mat
casein, its in and near !minion. Now he could Pee 110 R 1
teasels fur protecting the country matinfacturer, at the same
time that nor molt emouragi sneut was caw/WWI.) lout who
carried on business In town.
Colonel WOOD hoped that the a:itators Of this question
make up their minds with rc.peet to what they eCally
w antra, tofore they came to Pa. lisincirt. If he 'chits, wi-
th cabin.' the H able Alderman, who hail just sat 4.'11,
the elf 17...1,11 of 'mod,u wished for a total repeal ul' the W.I.
If this w. re the ease, those who opposed the alteration, toed
cot troohle themselves further shoot the mother, the Ho-
nourable Alderman and the Chancellor of the Exchequer
could *Mlle it between them—(Hear, hear.)—lf, however,
the Honourable Alderman dish nut succeed iu his object, he
hoped lw would not attempt to throw the burden from his
owls ithustlilele, suit plat.: it mi the barks of others.—l Hear,
hear )—Miesi the gutsiest' came to he debated. it would be
found that the City of lanithor had not a shadow of horn-
hoe the coropla arts that were 'mole. The Citizens of
Loto:oi. 1.a.1 the advantage or the cheapness of manage-
t mood Wi'lt not affecteil by those inifavoureble cirenuto
swots which operalt d in the troisitry. The duty on sea-
horny cost was equal throughout the kingdom. It sea., he
heliesed, 63. per chaldi On . 'Fiore Oldham's hail been laid on
to the toot of London, to form a fond fur the building of
titty churches. What, be would ask, had the people of
Wales to du with this? Why should they pay a tax on that
account?—!Near, hear.)—There was Is. 3d. added for the
elephnae. Frevd-2s per clialdron :or toothier charge—and
MI. per elialdrues fur the Duke 6.f Richmond's 'ex. But lie
till the ('orporatiou of Lonrho', how they could have
• ...'s theism There was a large •lone on the river Thanica,
liia Staines. Now, if they would remove that stone a Ist-
' '.• domn the river, as far, fur instauce, at Illaekfriar..beigNe,
h. amid mistier Mr it that eoals would be sold iu London
ct melon'. a rate as they were now procured in the country.
Hem►, hear.)
Mc toucan said,* treat degree of anxiety prevailed in
different parts of the country In bring coals to Loudon at a
chimp rot., but an Act of Parliament was immediately
'Pr hed to, which frustrated their intention. If the Como.
rums ...moved the stork to which the gallant Ofiker had
a,l,ollee, the City of Loudon would have coals nearly duly
toe.

l'',l.vrvitt.volt said, the speech of the pliant Officer
.1"1".1 %%out') was calculated to put the House in such
I I ua•..ur, that they wookl perhaps feel little inclosed
,** the question nut, under discassiou in a serious
•1•' It appeared to hire, however, t•t be a very serious
.IMO noted. He conceived, if these was a period when
ten. 1•111.011 and cruel to lay any burden ou the population
districts, that period was the present. Rqualiza-
MI a Cray hue lung word• It had also the appearance
I I Hui ass equalisation of tiara would not be re•
• .;%.,1 soh any degree 14 pleasure, at this period of English
by the great mass,,( the inhabitants of this country.
I• son Id• e• 11,0 'opinion, be hence, if taxes were to be laid
o•a.gufutore,, that a fall proporl inn of Owns should be
/WM by the city of Lo •iluis rather than by any other part
rosiiiry. Ile did not mean to say that this lax dui
ast bear uo the City—hot lie agreed with those who
thunliti that it would he better to remove it altogether
than to visit the labuttrin; poor with a portion, of

of it. He womiel.liewever, ask whetter NUmistcrs

mama to make ibis • 'question of theies'•—( Mar, hsar.)—
As lons as it was left between the eouurl, snit the City of
Landon. rem as was the ialluenee of the City, he felt iso

fear for the molt—for, he was sure, they would not he able
at this time of day, to impose • tax* on the manufactnres
of the country. 13-11, if Ministers had take,' st up, Hole
certainly was some zrestentl fur apprebeasitsio. As the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer was not in his place, he begged to
put lois question to the Hun. Secretary of the Treasury.
Mr. lAMIIIINGTON said, that as far as his ksioowledge ex-
tended, Wonders bad nut the least intention to make say
alteration in the ditty on coals.—!ffewe.)
Sir C.:Holm/may would not be performing his duty In-
wards his Constituents, if he did not protest against any al•
teration in the Coal Tax. The evil which this eqmslization,
as it was called, *mild prodnce, could not be contemplated
without &Aura of alarm—(Hear.)—He gave every credit
to the Honourable Alderman, to the gallant (Hirer, and
those who acted with them, for the p 'city of their inten-
tions; but he trusted they sever would be stile to induce
Ministers totake op • question which would be most juju-
rooms to the country.

for M. W Rtot.►• felt it
with a great Coal dusiret in the North, to state to the Holum
the opinion which ',lterated there, with reference to this sob.
yet. He would not eater into a disrusaism on the merits of
the question, but would merely slat• the nature of the coin-
ntionicall he had received (as we understood,) from TN rw.
castle on Tyne) this day. The individuals connected with
the trad►. felt, as far as their own Interests were con-
evened, that the equalization of the coal duty was very int-
le.rtant ; lint they acre of opinion, that if each a plan were
adopted, it world throw nil their neighbours, and ou cite ma-
satif‘rtairers of all Cogitate], instated near enal-mtnes, a must
onzino atoll nowt oppressive harden. He had received notice,
that,in the course of a few days, a Petition from the great hotly
of the Coal Trade on the river Tyue, against such a rneasnre,
would he transmittal to hint. He had heen attacked by a
public writer, iii this City, on account of his conduct at a
tweeting held on Ibis subject. That writer assert►d, that lie
had refused to lay the tax on the coal at the pit's-month,
because he was the proprietor of a glass-house in the North.
This was a matter of very little import:owe to the House;
but having been unjustly attacked, he deemed it necessary
to repel the art ii.nlloll. The fact war, he had a small frac_
. al share ill a elms-house, so trifling, that if the tax art re
laid on at the pit's month, it would make scarcely any dif-
ference to him. He was hostile to the plan, ant from any
private forting, but because his public duty dictated to hint
the impropriety of sanctioning a measure which he believed
would have very injurious effects.
Mr. Cravrvis said, that, (wen in the coal counties, at a
distance of twenty-live miles from die pit's.mosith, the con-
some/ p. 4141 as much fur his coals as the inhabitant of Lon-
don. If this equaliza ' took place, it would act as a most
unjust and heavy impost
Mr. CANNING took Site liberty of suggestinz to the House,
whether the revival of this discussion, en every Petition that
was presented, by which the regular course of business was
intermitted, could he considered the best mode of bringing
the questi"a to a rational conclusion ? Was it not more
likely to dolost the (louse. and prevent them from enter-
taining the subject cordially, when it came before them in
■ regular stripe ? As there ass no olejecti to laying the
Petition sun the table, be trusted the discussion would end
here.
Mr. RetC4FTT wished to correct a very idle and ninon,
idea which was entertained in the City of London, namely,
that coals were to he found in the neighbourhood of Illack-
lb/alit-4 /byre, kerse)--aitil that a monopoly was granted to
the cue-owners in the North, which was still inure absurd if
' possible. Snell stories put him in mind of an unfortunate
Gentleman, who imagined be had di►covered a coal-mine,
near Oxford, and who, in consequence, formed a rail-way,
stud almost excavated a canal—but after an immense ex-
pense, he was (Joked to give up the speculation, as a mere
chierwra.
After a few word* front Mr. L. Wett.vst,ty, Colonel
ELLISON, and a Gentleman abuse name we could not
Irian, against the eqnalizatian—
Mr. LITTLVTOIf obearverl,that the way by which his Right
Hon. Friend (Mr. Canning) could tone effectually put an
end to this question, was, by exertiog his tallaence with the
Chincellor of the Exchequer, and getting him to come
down to the House with an open sad manly declaration,
that Government had not only 1140 intentions of resorting to
such a measure--hat were so deeply impressed with the
evils it would create, that they would oppose any attempt at
an , qualivition of the coal tax.—(Hen, /mord
The Petition was then laid on the table.
Mr. Lasuretre 'rammed a Petition from certain Inhabit-
nts of Durham, against the equalization of the tax on Coale.
—Laid on the table.
IRISH GRAND JURY LAW.

lore JOc►LYV presentee N Petitinu from the County of
Louth, against the Irish Grand July Lars.—Lid oa the
table.

WINDOW TAi.

_
Mr. SIIAW gave notice, as we understood, that he would,
to-marrow, more for a copy of any Memorial presented to
the high liovcsomrat on the subject of the Vrusituir Tax.

BANK COMMITTEE.

Mr. AI.FSA7II3I:II liAotsm •nd Mr. J. SMITIt °hulloed
leave to attend the ironomitire mppuiNrd by the House or
Lids to Inquire into the again or the Batik

INSOLVENT DEBTORS.' ACT.
Aldermen THORP presented a Petition, signed be 150
respterable inhabitants of the Vard of Aldgatr, against the
Itto.lv•itt Dehtueb' Act.—Laid on the table.
Alderman 1.11/11TIIMala pre/Wilted • Petition, of the same
detcripition, (mum the merchant,, manafaciure rs, and shop.
keepers of the horn of Wrexham, Denbighshire. The Pe.
titi 111 l ers, he observed, would not oppose any measure cairn-
laird ut relieve the unfortunate creditur--but they could
not view, without apprebenaion, the provisions of the ex.
1111
biting Insolvent Act, which cn.,bled oue man to deride ou
claims to a vast amount, without the intervention of that
great bulwark of our liberties, the Trial by Jury. The Peti-
tion had been placed in hes hands not out of any disrespect
to the Hon.Geollenease who represented Ike county, nue from
any unpleasant feeling towards individuals who represeolled
place+, in its vivinitv—of those Gentlemen the Petitioners en.
tee tattled the highest opinion, as they slated in their letters.
They had Molested it to biro from motives highly gratifying
to his feelings. It was, in fact, a personal compliment paid
to him from flee place of his nativity. He M;111 glad to find
townamen had not lost sight of those rigida awl Privi-
leges Cif burl. their ancestors had so gloriously seem:gird.
The Petutiou was laid On the table, rod ordered to be
pi tided.
R CVIsIION OF TII E CRIMINAL CODE.
i. 0141 EUSTON presented ie Petition, argued by 204 moat
respectable inhabilants of the town of Rory St. Edmunds,
praying fur a revision of the Criminal Cook.
A similar Petition was presented Gum the inhabitants of
Chipping Norton.
Lord J. RUSSELL presented a Petition of the same mature
from the limough of Tavistock.
Mr. ILGuanaT presented a Petition from euerral respect-
able inhabitants of the City of Norwich, praying for a re.
vision of the Penal Code, as far as it respected the punish-
ment of forgery.
Sir W. Great presented a Petition praying for a revision
of the Penal Code, generally, front Gloucester.
Mr. F. BUXTON presented two Petitions on the same sub-
ject--the one from Chippiug-Camden, the other from
Bishop Stort ford.
Sir J. NEWPORT presented two Petitions—out from the
inhabitants of the town and neighbonrhoorl of Clonmel, the
°Ober from the inhabitants of the towel of Cahir, praying
fur a revisinu of the Crinkinal Code.
Mr. WI C• 411111 presented two Petitions, osse from the in-
habitants of Bucking and Braintree, the other from the in-
habitants of Chelmsford. hut% of them numerously and re.
apretahly signed, praying that the severity of the Criminal
Coop, with respect to the punishment of death, might be
mitigated.
Mr. LACETONI presented a similar Petition from the ia.
habitants of Durham.
These Menem* were respectively laid on the table.
1.1 M ERICK ELLCIION.
Sir T. RARING bronght op the evidence on the Linterie k
Election Pt lotion 1.11 the table.
AGRICULTDRA I. PETITION.
Mr. L. Wv.Lt,La% Kraceited a Petition from certain

oar r$ MI Off .pic.r I,f land, in die Comity of Milli, prrt•
jig fur protecting donee on the impocialiou of 'Hoick% mi•
%liar. those raised from the soil of the United Kingdom
AV Laid the table .
WINDSOR ESTABLISHMENT.
Sir A. Holt[ inquired when it was intended that the Bill,
relative to the Royal Establishment at %Vindxur, rhuold gib
ihrfilllth a Committee!
Lord ratinnitanOß anawereill that it would be read a
second tone no Thursday, and committed on Mundby next.
Sir A. Hoer thee gave notice, that he would move in the
Committer, on Monday, that Pill Equerries be attached to
his Majesty's Establishment, instead of four.
DEFAULTERS.
The names of the Defaulters on the ballot, on the 19th of
February, were called over, and excuses made fur several of
them.

••••••••
LOTTERIE9.
Mr. I.IfTTFLTON cave notice, that ht *wild, on Wearies.
day, the 24th Instant, oubant certain resulutious to the
Houle on the suhket of Lutterica.

BANK DISCOUNTS. • •
Mr. GLADSTONU said, that, either in conse-
quence of reports circulated, with respect to the
opinion of the Committee appointed to investigate
the ieffairs of the Batik, or from other causer, ori-
ginating elsewhere, it was rumoured, that the Rink
had considerably narrowed the scale of their •rlts-
counts. This report had excited very great altirm,
particularly iii that part of the country (Liverpool)
with which he was immediately connected. At a
period I ke the present, when the pressure oil all
classes of the community was so great, a sudden
stoppage of the customary accomusinlation would
be attended with the worst effect. He considered
it necessary to inquire of the Honourable Member
(4r. Manning) whether those reports rested on ally
substantigl foundation ?
Mr. MANNING—" I have no hesitation in answer-
ing the questuni put to one by the Hun. Member.
lie inquires, whether the Bank have, in constr.
qss- lice Of any particular circumstances, lessened
their discounts to the country? Ido not hesitate
to answer that no change has taken place in their
discounts, in consequence of the appointment tit•
the Committee. 11l the course of the last right
or ten days, since this alarm was excited, ao tar from
any diminution having taken place in their mercan-
tile discounts, there has heen an increase of those
discounts, to about the extent of eight per cent.—
( Hear, hear.)—There is not the ►lightest intention,
as far as my knowledge goes, of any act about to
he done by the Bank, that can have the effect of
starving the circulation of the country. They will
wait for the Report of the Committee, and it will
then be their duty to bow to the direction of
the Legislature.—(Near, hear. )—But 1 repeat,
there is not the slightest intention, on the part
of the Bank, to adopt the course to which the
Honourable Member alludes. 1 understand an
order was made by the House, last night, for a re-
turn of the number of Bank notes in circulatioin
That order had not been received at the Batik,
whets I left it at two o'clock. But I can state the
amount of notes in circulation is now about
25,000,000 L—being 00,000/. more than it was, in
the corresponding period of December, when the
last return was made to the House."—(Hear.)

CATHOLIC QUESTION.
Sir J. NEWPORT said, he bad to call the parti•
color attention of the House to the Petition which
he now held in his band. During a period of 16
years, he had never received a commission to ley a
document before the House more oulisfoctory than
that which he was this day about to introduce to
their notice. He was empowered, on the part of
the great body of Protestant inhabitants of the
city which lie had the honour to represent, to state
their ardent wish. that die penal restrictions and
disabilities which affected the interests of their
Roman Catholic brethren, should be wholly re-
moved. The meeting, at which this Petition was
agreed to, was called on the requisition of fifty
of the principal Protestant inhabitants of the
city, and was attended by between two and 300
l'inttstant Gentlemen. At this meeting the ex-
pression of feeling was unanimous—it was nut dis-
turbed by one disseutient voice—and lie had further
to say, that the Petition received the signatures
affixed to it, without the solicitation of any indivi-
deal whatsoever.—( Hear, hear.)—lt was the free
and spontaneous prayer of the Protestants of
Waterford, that iliosu laws, which, in turbulent
and dangerous un►es. were imposed on the
Roman Catholics, should be removed, as the
necessity fur them no longer existed. It was not
ills intention to enter into the causes in which
those laws originated—but lie would say, in the
emphatic language of the Petitioners, " that, look-
ing impartially at the baneful consequences of the
penal laws which at present affect his Majesty's
objects, professing the Catholic religion, which
are iitimical to the georral interests of the moire,
and opposed to the liessee and Isarinduy of social
iruciely, it behoved the (louse to take them into
cousideratiou, anti immediately to remove dis-
abilities so degrading aril oppressive."—( Hear,
hear.)—There were the sentiment■ of the great
body of the Protestants of Waterford—mitt, if
they felt that those laws were "degrading and op-
pressive," what must be the sensations of the Ra-
man Catholic% against whose welfare they ope-
rated ?—(ileur, hear.)—lle presented this Petition
with heartfelt pleasure, since it proved that feel-
ings of kindness and conciliation were taking place
of those of u less ennoble (ttainder. He looked
upon it as an earnest of what might he expected from
the growth of those liberal opinions, which, when
properly cultivated, must produce the most pleas-
ing and beneficial effect.
Air. R. S. Csits.w (we understood) bore testi-
mony to the spositsiteous mumwr in which the sig-
natures were suffixed to the Petition. Public opt-
ition on this subject had undergone a considerable
change in 'rebind. Many individuals who formerly
opposed the Catholic Claims, stow agreed w the
propriety of supporting them.
The Petition was then read and laid on the table.
MR. GRADY.
Sir lt. WILSON moved the Order of the Day
for bringing Mr. Thomas Grady to the bar, in or-
der to his being discharged oust of custody.
Mr. Grady accordingly appeared at the bar, in
the custody of the Serjeant-at-Arniv, when
The SPEAKER addresser! him as follows Tho-
mas Grady, you have been guilty of *writing and
snubs% a letter, the contents of which are a high
breach of the privileges of tilts House. For that
offence you were committed to his Majesty's •gaol
of Newgate. Your Printout, praying for relief,
from further confinement, has been received—and

the term.; in which that NO iud is coloveita
tie deep regret you express for having offended
this Howe, and the. poletuu assurance you give,
that it wise farthest horns tour iotention to tree-
P44s on ita privileees, o.elirve me from 01 deity,
whirh;r•onsiolerilog the rrook mood station yon hold in
society, would have been :1 most painful one, that of
enlarging ono t loe nature:lnd character of your offence.
I will cooly adol, that this /louse, at sill times deter-
mined to viii.fic.ite it, own honour and privileges,
ors the hoo‘t senorita for prootectitog the rights and
iortvoleges of his Mjesty's subjects. is most anxious
on all occasion% to sueasoire its punishment by the
orcrasity of the case. That isecesaity is, in this
ilostance,'satisfied ; and I eon commanded to tic.
(point you, chit you are discharged on the pay-
ment of your hers."—lllear, hear.)
Mr. Grady then withdrew.
On the resoiioii of i,nril CAIYILHINAGH, seconded
by Mr. TIER:i Wt. " The address of Mr. SPEAILLII.
in reprinutioduig Thos. Grady," mai ordered to be
entered on the Journal".
CONIMITTER ON UP' STATE or PRISONS.
Mr. W. WY N N he understood the Noble
Lord ill have stated, on the preceding evening, that
it would be proper for the Coommitore, for the ap-
pointment of which he had moved, to divide it-elf
into a number of 'Suh•Coinonitters. As he (Mr.
Wynn) apprwhrooded that it was totally impossible
fur the Committee to do this, without the special
leave anordirectolill of the /louse—an authority that
had soot hero granted for the last ISO years—
he wished to know whether the Noble Lord meant

to move the House to grant the Committee such an
authority f •
Lord CASTLEPEAGH did not mean to call oil the
House to make such an order, which lie did tint
deem necessary. It was nut possible for twenty-
one Gentlemen to employ themselves on the same
subject, at the same moment, and it was merely
intruded that different partieei should attend t" par-
ticular branches—end the whole mess of informa-
tion could afterwards be formed into one Report.
M. W. WYNN contended, that this pro-
ceeding was wholly unprecedented. Ix 1640, the
(louse granted a power of this kind to a Commit-
tee, which ii afterwards revoked. Between 1661
and 1667, five nistoinces occurred, where the House
delegated the seine degree of power, on special ap-
plication—but since 1667, no instance was to he
f I. He gave notice, as he considered that the
proceeding intimated by the Noble Lord would
form a mist dangerous precedent—a precedent cal-
enlisted to extend the authority of Committees to a
most inconvenieitt txteut —that he would fix o day
for taking the sense of the House on it. He con-
ceived that the Speaker ought to give his opinion
on this important question.
The SPEAKER said, he had no doubt, that when
any subject of i-quiry was delegated by that House
to as Committee, it was delegated, not in parts, but
fully and entirely to each individual appointed on
that Committee.—(Hear, hear.)
AMENDMENT OF THE CRIMINAL LAW.
Sir J. MACKINTOSH said, lie rose, pursuant to
notice, to bring under the consideration of the
Weise. a motion 66 for the appointment of a
Select Committee, to inquire into, consider, and
report to the House their opinion, on so much of
the Criminal Law as related to capital punish-
ments in cases of felony." In wording his motion. he
begged to slate that he followed a resolution, which
was entered nn the Journals of the House, in the year
1770, at which time an authority similar to that which
he had in view, was intrusted to a Committee of that
House. if he understood the observations of the
Noble Lord, on the preceding evening, lie admitted
that a state of things existed, which called for Par-
lt,mentary inquiry—that the state of crime was
such as demanded investigation its some way or
other—and that the hest mode of effecting that in-
vestigation was by a Select Committee. So far they
were agreed. He understood the Noble Lord also
distinctly to hive stated, that the inquiry ought to
be as extensive as possible—as extensive as that
which he (Sir James) meant to propose. The only
question, then, was, whether the Committee moved
for by the Noble Lord, or that to he proposed by
him, would be the most convenient instrument for
conductiog this investigation ? He was completely
relieved, by the concessions of the Noble Lord,
from proving that a case calling for emptily
existed—that a Committee was the most conve-
nient mode of proceeding—or that the investigation
ought to lie as extrusive as possible. To the No-
ble Lord's mode of inquiry, there were two material
objections ; tire, that it was physically impossible
to carry his views into effect, in any reasonable time,
a fact winch they had heard, on the preceding even-
ing. f the highest authority in the House—
and next, that his plan for subdividing the Com-
nottee, was a gross violation of the rules of Par-
liament. What he (Sir J. Mackintosh) proposed
was in unison with the established usage of Parlia-
ment—shut the House should itself form the Com-
mittee, that a particular subject should be referred
to it, amid that it should not possess the uncoiled-
tutional power of subdividing itself at pleasure.
But lie might take anothe'r objection to the
Noble Lord's proceeding. which was this, that
his motion went to exclude capital punish-
ments from the consideration of the Committee.
The motion was for the eppointment of a Com-
mittee, to consider the state of gaols, and the
reformation as well as punishment of offenders.
Now it was perfectly clear that of those whose re-
formation was contemplated. individuals, who were
sentenced to capital p ttttt shments, could not form
a part. It would be molistrous, he conceived, when
the state of plisomms was specifically mentioned in
the motion, is the consideration of the Criminal
Code was to skulk into the Committee under
an equivocal expression. Ills motion, he would
couteild, dill nut impugn the administration
of the law, or the conduct of Magistrates,
more than that of the Noble Lord. He pursued
the course follo.ved it' limner Parliaments, and ad-
hered iii what, on like ocensions„ they had adopted.
In 1730 the fir.t C•minntittee of mills kind was ap-
pointed. in ciiiistiummee of the sterna excited by the
great increase us m•I me. It was appointed to cuts-
eider the state of tier law with resin-et to felonies.
and it was directed to po;nt out the defects the
system, and to state what laws might be advantage-
ously rensaled. Vs maid the Noble Lord say that the
resolot 1111 l of the 41.mse of Commune. in 17544 **'*
rash attack out ihe laws, and on those •len adminis-
tered them ? Was that inquiry intrusted to turn of
up mote, or did it osigiuite with persons of mit-

Limon habits? He would state by wr,m it wo
conducted. for two Sessions. Aroorigst it. ii,fem.
hers were Mr. Pelham, then Chancellor of the Ex_
chrquer ; Mr. Putt, afterwards Lord Chatham ;
Gr. ovate, our of the Lords of the Treasury; Mr.
Lyttlelon, and Mr. Charles Townshend, 'ward*
Chancellor of the Exchequer ; Mr. Lloyd, an emi-
nent I.wyer ; and Mr. Dudley nyder. Attorney,
General, sod afterwards Chief .lushes of Et.glentf.
These great statesmen could not surely hr hacked
on as speculators. They clime to revere' rteolsi-
11011a, amongst which was one petiole; out the expe-
diency of exchangints the punishment of death tor
other convenient and"aderhste puisishmeitts. They
were also the first to state the great evil of the PoreN
Laws, and to lay down that just principle, thitt sw-
eetly and crime advanced its this country In 1.11110
lines, and with equal steps. They also sere.-.I ro a
' resolution, that the growth of crimes alight, in a
great degree, he ascribed to the want of the menus of
education amongst the children of the poor. Thee
originated two Bills--one of them tdilo;atety pa*.e,l
—but the second, for restraining cart!al PhittOt-
merits, was lost in the House of Peels, eth;eisi.,
it was not opposed by Lord Harrlssirke, iir *Hy or
the great sages of the law. In 1770, another
Committee, similar to that which lie was About
to move for, was appointed. Amongst its Mem-
bers were Sir George &vile. Mr. Fox, and
Mr. Seijeant Glynn. Recorder of Loudon.--
Though that Committee took up but a oiogre
branch of the subject, they were Occupied fur more
than two years in the investigation. They producei
a Bill, repealing the capital parts of eight or ten
criminal statutes. It passed this House, ermine
contradicen!e, but was defeated in the House of
Peers, although neither Lord Camden nor Lord
Mansfield opposed it. It was thrown out by other.,
whom names, if mentioned, would now br little
kiio‘%n. These were precedents worthy the adoption
of the House, instead of fraying recouiee to a pro-
ceeding, in manifest violation of the role* of Par.
liament. The course pursued by the Noble Lord
wits essentially defective in this paint, ilist, though
he had ended that a case for inquiry existed, he did
not intimate what pint he meow to propose is older
to tweet the evil—he did nut inform the House
what parts of the law requited the investigatiou of
a Committee. Neither had the Noble Lord declar-
ed, whether there was any likelihood that u remedy
could he devised for that state or things ale( II he
had called " The golden age of vice. ' Hear,
hear, and laughter. —lie (Sir Jones) aottild du,
what it was the bountlen duty of the Noble Lord
to hare done. lie weulil prove, that there
were points connected with the Criminal Law,
the reform of which, it night red-totality be
hoped, would produce great moral benefit.—
As inferences and conjectures had been made re-
specting his object, which had never entered Iwo
Ins contemplation, he should next beg leove to slate
what his object was not. It was not 111, object to
propose a mica Criminal Code, itisoeatl of Oast now
established by the laws of England, 4 Cod, so ad-
mirable in its general principles, and so aril isti,.!,• it
to the habits of the English people. To supptoe
that he meant to raise a new system on the ruins of
that, was too ridiculous and extravagant to dcset ve
serious confutation—(Hear, hear)-Iwlll.er was it
his object to abolish the punishment of death. He
considered the legal provision of that extreme
penalty to be nothing more than the recogitith
extension, and establishment, by society, of that
natural right possessed by every individual to de-
stroy an aggressor, who sims at his own destitic-
j Lion. He thought it necessary to say so much, les t
any one might impute to him intentions the most
remote from those he really entertaitieil. Neither
was it his object to take away judici.l discretion.
He did not propose to remove the prerogative •t'
pardoning, but, on the contrary, to restore ilt it
highest privilege to the Crown, of which it had been
deprived by the practice of modern times -- (I leer)--
What his object was, lie should very bite-fly t xpl
It was to realize, as near as might be, those pio-
jected improvements %Inch had been pointed out
at various times by a number of practical land
Itarned men—it was to telllelly the extraoriltaiery
anomaly in our system of Criminal Law, that it
was not all, iu fact, what it was in theory—to betty;
the letter . little nearer to the practice—to effect
that execution should be applied to the majority,
and remission to the minority of conviction-. lit
all other systems of law, remission tawns.d the
exception, and execution the rule ; lie thouolit
then there was reason to complain, when in ontf.,
remission was the rule, and iitflictioit et' ounislimei
the exception. He desired to bring al t !omit sit
alteration as would render the execution of the
law steady and regular, as would cause men's hop-a
and fears to operate steeddy ; hut he was most cats.
tious to avoid any chunges, but such wily es the
experience of able men had proved to he wise una
safe. Though Ins general object had been su:11 as
he described; there was a distinct one in his view.
which he wished the House seriously to coesider.
There was one particular punishment where t'
feelings of the people were at variance with I lie 1 tw.
That was a circumstance greatly to he kitiewea,
because in any country the laws and ferli-gs t; e
population could not be long at varionce a potiot
material injury to both. ( Hear.)-1 Its u.Jtct
was to bring these two together where lb v had
long been kept asunder—to evert (lie t. tlt. g* of
the people on the side of taw—to preseeih: and
excite all men to become its vigilant guardia.te anti
strict executors—and to beget that a.:aelittieht to,
unit coofidence in, the laws, which to tilt' 1111.... t
arduous and trying tones remarkably d.stie-
guished the people of Etigititid.-- (Hear k—
it was not his nocittion to follow the Neblc Lard
through the course of his ilfglllllViils, On it 11111tb ion
connected with the present, the preo-dii.g .sight;
but lie should advert to one or two ',mile in it. He
agreed with the Nutite Lori, that tt was consola-
tory to reflect that there bad Incitase of
Isle years to crinire of a it• ep and istaliguent dye.
and that though titielices agatin.t propetty had
(spited, there was no advottce of atroci,ais criuleo.
sods as to indicate a decline in the ho ruche (lowa.
stool" of the uauuu ; even die former t fleet he was
iiiclitied to imitate rather to the iialuesice of wind
than a decay of moral principles. He oho agreed
with the Noble Lord, that some of the causes 41
the merestae of crime weir temporary ; but even is
that, he teased there was a difference of opinion bar
tween them. He thought some of those cons:edema
itnhetiwt Noblellight
hLt obi dy tflosermNoedbite Lhed
amore weepiret:liossot sasousi"till

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