The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-03-12 00:00:00

WEST DERBY GUARDIANS.

The usual weekly meeting of the members of this.
Beard was held yesterday at the Board Rqom, Mill lane,
Everton. The Rev. Mr. Badnall, the chairman of the
Board, presided. The other guardians present were—
Messrs. Siddeley, M. A. Johns, Lunt, Morris, Callis.
Harrison, Leyland, Wilson, Medealf, I. Edwards, Elias,
W. Baynes, W. Johnson, Shaw, Richmond, Pickup,
Segar, Evans, Whitby, Wensley, Roscoe, Richmond,
and Pitts.

THE OFFICIAL 'RETURNS.

The Master of the Workhouse reported that last week
thue were 682 paupers in the workhouse, since when 25
had been admitted, 1 born, 31 discharged, and 2 deaths,
leaving this week 675. For the corresponding week of
last year 711.

The Master of the Ilospi`al reported that there were
113 patients in that establishint-nt last week, since when
16 had been admitted, 13 discharged, and 3 deaths. This
week 113, and for the corresponding week of last
year 116.
Cheques to the amount of £254 were voted for the out-
door relief of the poor in the several districts under the
control of the relieving officers.

THE DIVISION OF THE UNION.

The Clerk read a lettor from the Poor Law Board on
the above subject, stating, in effect, that the board had
received certain communieation3 from a meeting of the
inhabitants of the township of Wavertree, objecting to
the same, and would, at the earliest possible convenience,
take the subject into consideration, and report thereon.
Mr. Harrison moved that a copy of the communication
be forwarded to the overseers of Toxteth park.
This was seconded and carried.
Mr. Pitts moved that copies of the same be also sent

to the overseers of Garston, Allerton, and Childwall, as
there was not any representative from those townships
present.
Mr. Shaw : That is their own fault.
Mr. Pitts : Well, I will make the motion.,
The Chairman said : I can assure you that Allertou
and Childwall have petitioned against the division, the
same as Wavertree has done, but I cannot say whether
Garston has taken any steps in the matter.
Mr. Wilson: Let them all go, they are bad partners,
and we (Torteth park) don't want them with us. (Hear,
hear )
The Chairman . I wish you had given your vote to that
effect, and you would have saved as much trouble. I
don't understand perms holding up their hands for one
thing and wishing another.
i Mr. Wilson : I did not vote.
It was understood that copies of the communication
should be sent to each of the townships moved,

THE NEWLT ELECTED CHAPLAIN.
A letter was read from the Rev. R. T. Leslie, acknow-
ledging, with thanks, being elected as chaplain to the
union, and promising to fulfil his duties to the satisfac-
tion of the guardians.
It was moved that the letter should be. entered upon
the minutes of the board, but a resultory con►ersation
ensued, upon which it was understood that such a course
was unnecessary.

THE BOARD AND THE AUTHOR OP
" Rattle his bones, over the stones,
He's only a pauper, whons nobody owns"
Mr. Callis said I must claim the attention of the board
for a few minutes on a subject of :some importance, not
alone to myself, but affecting the whole board. I hold in
my hand a long article which has appFarecl in a newspaper
(THE NORTHERN 'FIXES) which I have read, and with
which, I dare say, you are all conversant. On reading
that article for the first time, I found it cast reflections
on what I suited at the last meeting of this hoard. I can
only say that my opinions have been misinterpreted. It
is stated that I said "that a workhouse such as theirs was
best suited to a young man just commencing business,
and thought it wou'd be better that their present medical
officer should resign." On that occasion each guardian
explained his moives on the subject under discussion,
but I little thought that I should hive been brought
before the public as I have been. It will be remembered
by all those who heard me on that occasion, that I gave
it as my opinion that an old officer, as the medical officer
of that union was, if he was not satisfied, should
resign. There was no doubt but that we all appreciate
:he talent and ability of Dr Nevins, but if his oet.door
practice was so great that he required and had asked for
assistance to fulfil his duties here, I am of opinion that
he should have asked fur an increase of salary to pay an
assistant, with, and if he did not do so, that he should send
in his resienatien, lid let another person step in and
take his place. You all know that we had no intention
of doing an injury to the poor, but would rather have
paid him addiTional for his time. (gear, hear.) lam
sure all who know me, and have watched how I have
attended to the wants of the poor, will never accuse me
of unkindness or harshness to them. I am sure I need
not say anything further, but I wished to exonerate
myself from such an accusation. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. Whitby: My name has also been mentioned in
the article alluded to, but I feel it is only necessary for
to say that I agree in all that Mr. Callis has stated, as
he has explained my opinions fully. I am sure, with
regard to accusing me of harshness to the poor, all who
know me will give it a refutation. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. Pitts : I am afraid that there is too much truth
in the remarks in the article alluded to, (Rear. hear.)
It states that a different elass of persons hays lately been
admitted to what should have been—
_ _

The Chairman : I cannot allow any remarks to be
made which will lead to a debate, and what you have
just said, would do so. Mr. Callis has addressed the
board. He has seen an article in print, which, reflecting,
as he supposes, upon Lim, and he and Mr. Whi,by, who
is also mentioned, have explained and exonerated them-
selves, therefore, I cannot now allow any further remarks
on the subject, without there is some motion before the
board.

Mr. Shaw : My name has also been mentioned in the
, letter, if you call it a letter, and all I can say is, that I
do not envy the feelings of the writer of it, or the feelings
of the persons who get up at this board and say, " there
is too much truth in it. (Hear, hear:) It is written in a
jesting style, but I maintain that there is no truth in the
assertions that have been made. (Hear, hear )
A Guardian : Why allow Mr Shaw to speak.
The Chairman : His name is mentioned in it.
Mr. Shaw : Allow me to examine the assertions in this
article. I will do so as well as I can ; but I shall have
some difficulty in it, as it wanders about so. It is stated
that I said, at the last meeting of the board,
" that I was d termined that a second medical man should
never be in that house while I lived," I say it would have
been a great piece of presumption on my part to have made
such an assertion. I will ask if any p rson present ever
heard me make such an assertion. (Cries of " No, no.")
I say I never made use of such a remark.
Mr. Pius : Yes, you did.
Mr Shaw : I say I did not; but what I did say was, so
long as I have a voice and can hold op my hand against it,
I would do so, and I say so now. (Hear, hear). I say it
would have been presumptuous of me ro say so, because 1
have not the power of controlling the board, but I have
heard p-rsons make use of similar language.
Mr. Harrison : You did rot say anything of the sort.
Mr. Shaw : But I will go ou. Ido not know who the
writer of the letter is : ha has not had the honesty to sign
his name to it; bat from its contents it is quite evident
that it is written either by a guardian belonging to the
board, or by one of the officers. (Hear, hear.) The state-
ments contained in it have been communicated to the writer.
The letter refers "to copies of circulars hit,?ly sent by the
medical officers to the elected and ex-officio members of the
board." It is evident that that must come from Dr.
Nevins ; for who else could give the information. It goes
on to say " that the workhouse has gradually been losing
its original character, and has now become little else than
a large hospital ; tor of 691 inmates, 251 are in the sick
wards." Well, there may be 251 in the sick wards; but
the writer could not make the board believe that
all these 251 cases were such as had to he attended
daily. (Hear, hear). It then said : " There is not
a single able-bodied man in the house." All the guardians
were aware, or they should be so, that we do not profess to
keep able-bodied men in the house, for if an able-bodied
man applies for relief, he is sent to the stone yard or to the
labour test. It was not the custom to allow them there
And the letter went on to say, " and there are frequently
barely sufficient able•bodied women to do the necessary work
of the estalfishment." I should like the writer of that ar-
ticle, or any of his friends, to goover the house and see the fa-
cilities that were given to able-bodied women. It was not
at all surprising that they did rot keep their places outside,
where they had to do the drudging, for, in the house, they
h=d one tap for the hot water, an I another for the cold.
But, for my part, I do not see that any reflections are cast
upon the bo ird, for, I think, the letter has more reference
to Dr. Nevins and the governor, than to the board, as it
was their duty to take care of the paupers. (Hear, hear.)
The next part of the 'letter to which I shall refer is that

Oliverpart-.-" asking for more—and the medical officer hss
actually dared to ask for more—assistance." It was there
he hat been asking for more. There is no end to his
asking. I should only like to know the maximum with
which• Dr. Nevins will be satisfied. (Hear, hear.) There
he was every week, every month, every- year, asking

for more, and more, and more. Let him 6it
with what he will be satisfi.d with, and give,.
him at once' but if they were to go on as they were lu,e
going on, there would be no end of his asking for 070
(I-lear. heat.) It is then said, " The medical office
declared that he has long spent four, five, and even ten b°k,
in the day and nigtiL in attendance upon sick in the Il°!A
house." Now, what did Dr. Nevins himself say on ta;
point ? What did Dr. Nevins tell me in my own patine: to
Friday night last ? I asked him if he considered it a Pt".cla
p conversation or a public one. He replied, '"publics ;,;es
therefore I can repeat it. He told me that he ha a Psi,
zreat attention to the sick, and I told him that the Oho
dians did not think he devoted sufficient time to them*: ho
he said he devoted three hours and a half a day; 211%1
could not and would not do more. tie said tour 1104
diy ; and I then told him that he gat more for atten'!,
at the present time than he did when there were ndlee'si
paupers. With regard to the assertion, " That seven a
bodies were wailing in the deadhouse for interment '0
single day last week." Thia is quoted from a circulo.
is true, who can have written it but Dr. Nevins? Sn'enbil
the deadhonse at one time ! I should like to know eatio
day ? (Mr. Pitts : On Wednesday last.) You might 30,
until I have done, and then reply to me. I askeederi
Gough on what day there were seven bodies in the is
house, and he told me on Monday week. I then soln_A` of
know what seven they were, and I called for the be7ll/
the deaths, and I found that two died on the 26th Fehrtbi
—one of them a child, three weeks old. who died T, :sel
venereal, the other, a year old, from bloodlessness. 1„„"tb0
given the English terms that they may be understood. vroro
27th, a chlll seven weeks old of consumption, o°o
thirteen months old from wasting away. On the:fro/
one aged 76 from bronchitis, and an other aged
dropsy, and one on the 2nd of March, eged 15 11.'40
cancer, so there were five children and two aged pets
But what I should like to know is, why were thoee„ti
died on the 2tith, and 27th, and 28th of February, ,70
until the second of March ? It seemed as if they ha't 'fibs
kept merely to make up a case that it might blaze ingti
newspapers. It it was so, where does the blame IA
Certainly not with the board. With regard to the st`7o,
in the papers, I do not feel that they apply to io
or to any member of the board, and that if they app 1
to any person it was to Mr. Gough or to Dr. Nosnol
have been a guardian for the last sixteen or sev°o4
years. and until last year have always been on the YLe;"lbl
Committee, and therefore know something abon' thi
matter, and with regard to harshness or neglect tell
poor, I can say that I never saw an instance of it, an
n
should like the writer of the article and his friends ;
round the house, and ask each inmate how many tial,e,,-01
has had medicine given him. Mr. Shaw then 0007
amidst the applause of the board.
Mr. Harrison : I have been asked by Mr. Shad' 1,1
heard him make the observation alluded to. I onntss
did not.- What he said was "as long as I have a Pi"—
this board." feta

Mr. Johns said : I have a wish to say a ell
or two on this subject. At the bottom of the 11101
alluded to are these words : "We are with' bit
by the writer of this article to communicate rel
name to any guardian asking for it, and leaving bls:00
This morniEg I, with Mr. Siddeley, called at the 00", the
the NORTHERN TIMES for the puroose of asking l'osi
name of the writer. We were told that Mr. Wilinier
pa
not at the office, and we drove to his private re4o4
We asked for the name, but could not get it. Mr. MA
tbi
refused to give it, but said he would take our cards, an
party would communicate with us.
Mr. Shaw : Where does Mr. Willmer live ?
Mr. Johns : At 21, Oxford street.
Mr. Shaw : A few doors from Dr. Nevins. A ver.r
neighbourhood. (Laughter.) d t'2
Mr. Lunt then moved that the porter be instructe.sio
make ou:, a daily return of the number and length of !isi%
Dr. Nevins had made to the workhouse for the last
months.

Mr. I Edwards seconded the proposition. 011
Mr. Pitts then said that he did think that thcre Was dos
truth in the statements made in the letter, for the reefreas
that within the last six months there had been $
indiscrimination in the distribution of the funds, A9iceri
would be found by referring to the relieving Tbeatt
books. Within that period no able bodied pour had pro
taken into the house, and the consequence was that taco
outdoor relief was granted. He concluded by moving
the return, moved for by Mr. Lunt, be not granted. vrd,
Mr. Shaw : Surely you are not afraid of it ?
hear.)
Mr. Pitts : Not exactly, but I can't see the use of it'
Mr. Whitby explained that, although there did APPetif
to be a great number of sick in the house, the gre;oo
number were cases of palsy, or bedridden, and there bi
required no medical attendance ; but, at the same tireetnot
thought they had better go on as they were doiag, and._oo
make any fresh appointments until they knew the deer{
of the general board, as to the division of the union- aid,
The motion for the return was then unanimeolgc3 Dr.
Mr. Batten then moved for a similar return from
s.
Wilson, the assistant dispenser, who had bees appoipted
Mr. Abrahams seconded the motion. havil
Some conservation followed as to the neeesettY
such a return, which resulted in the motion beingneb-ti
by a large majority.