Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1860-02-14 00:00:00

AQUATICS.

TUE DUBLIN REGATTA.—The regatta in Dublin Bay will be
held this season under the auspices and management of the
Royal St. George's Yacht Club, and has been fixed to take
place on Wednesday, the 11th and Thursday, the 12th day of
July next. This fixture is admirably circumstanced as regatta
the Royal Cork Yacht Club Regatta, which will take place on
the 19th and 20th of the same month, thus enabling yachts
from Scotland, the north, Liverpool, and Wales to attend the
regattas on the Irish coast en route for the English Channel.
This meeting, it is expected, will prove the most brilliant ever
yet held at this favourite yachting station. The prizes to be
offered will i.e varied and valuable, and suitable to all classes
of racing t amage afloat. We understand that some new
clippers are expected to make their debut, sa that the victors
of last season must be prepared tp defend their laurels.
Tux Coax Mutant:a REGATTA.—From arrangements al—
ready entered into, and also from the liberal way in which it hi s
been taken up, it is more than probable that this will be one
of the most successful regattas ever held. The time fixed is
the 19th and 20th of July. Iwo cups of uncommon interest,
and one of them quite a novel, y, will be run for. The history
of this oup is as follows :—Soine few months ago 500 men o
the 28th .Regt. attacked the piratical fort of Buite, on the Coro
mandel coast, held by the Waghiers, who at sundry tim, 8
had given considerable an:wyance. The gallant 28th Refit.
made short work of it, and after driving them out took posses—
sion of the place. A box was found in the fort, the contents
of which turned out to be a beautiful cup of the finest silver,
worth about £5O, and which fell into the hands of Captain:
Williams, who had been quartered in Cork and Queenstown is
1858, and though far away he never forgot the friends he had
left behind. Some short time previous to this, Captain Ellika
well known and respectable member of the Royal Cork Yacht
Club, and whose fimily reside at Queenstown, had meaticned
that, on leaving Ireland, he had promised to send a present to
the club; and the moment Captain W. get the cup, they
arranged that they.should send it conjointly as a present to be
run for at the regatta by yachts belonging solely to members,
and the committee are determined to carry out their •wistes
in
every particular. The second cup, value 100 guineas, wll be
given by Wm. Wise, Esq. It is expected that this can will bo
open to all )achts, Mr. Wise's wish being
to induce numerou it
yacht owaers to visit the Oork Waterei

'.CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.

THE FRENCH 'TREATY AND THE
BUDGET. -

' The ,adjourned annual meeting of the Liyerpool
Chamber of Commerce was held yesterday, at th 6 rooms
of the Association, Exchange-buildings. The object' Of
the meeting was to afford the members of the Chamber
an opportunity of expressing their views' on the new
commercial treaty' between this country and France ;
and also-of consideithg the budget which was laid before
the .H6use of, Commons on. Friday last. The chair wits
occupied by Mr. C Robertson ; and there were also
present Messrs. C.. Bushell,' Macfie, King, Wm.
Brown, T. A. Clint, J. T. Danson, H. J. Thomlinson,
C. Holland,'C.-R.--Hall, Darbyshire, and Estill.

. , ELECTION OF MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL.
The President said the report-, of the scrutineers'
appointed to examine the votes for the members to be
elected to the Council of the. Chamber declared the
following gentlemen elected :—Messrs. C. -Btishell, For-
wood, Bushby, Dickenson, Homer Darbyshire, and A
11. Lemonius.

THE COMMERCIAL, TREATY WITH FRANCE.
The "PRESIDENT said the only other subject which
remained to be taken up that afternoon referred to the
final clause in the circular, stating that after the
adjourned meeting., in addition to receiving the inert
of -the scrutineers, it was considered an opportunity
might be afforded to members to consider the commer-
cial treaty with France, and any alterations that might
have been proposed in the- British tariff. The subject
was now open for discUssion, and it was oPen to any
gentleman to move a resolution in favour of the Chan-
cellor's Budget and the treaty with France. That
morning he had received a letter from Mr. T. B.
Horsfall, M 2., as to 'what he conceived to be an
omission in the treaty which there might be time—and
• lie believed the time was not too late—to make an
alteration in it. His letter had reference-th the interests
which were chiefly affected by it—the reference was to
the third article of the treaty, which said, after enuine-
. rating. the articles in the treaty which were admitted
into France, the third article went on to say that
" It is understood that the rate of duty mentioned in the
',preceding, articles are independent of, the differential
duties in favour of French shipping, with which duties
they shall not interfere." , That had been ,thought by
some,geutlemen to establish the question of differential
duties ,as between English and, French ships; that' was
to say; that English produce coming into English ports
in French ships should have the same privilege as
English ships bringing that produce. . Ile had -made.
enquiries Of the French Consul, who informed him that
British 'produce and manufactures ,shipped from. British
ports would be imported into French ports at theisame rafe
as by French ships, and that, there. was no differential
duties in, that respect. But there was an important
restriction against English ships in,, the case of the ad-
mission of foreign-produce from 'foreign, ports ,into
French ports ; which was to say. that we could not
introduce cot •on into a French Port by an English ship.
It would be well for the Chamber, if they thought it
right to express its opinion, to ascertain, by memorial to
the Government; whether that also could not be
aMended—whether all restrictions on shipping, might
-net, be removed by the treaty. To this point Air.
Horsfalrs letter , particularly referred. lie did not
know whether they all desired, in -addition to
the terms of the treaty, to take into consideration'
also the very important changes which have' been
projected • in - the tariff, or whether ,they would
',think it- desirable, seeing the greatness of the
.subject, and, the wide field which this discussion
covered; to postpone to a future day the consideration of
the important changes effected in our own tariff inde-
pendently of-thOse involved in the treaty with France.
His own opinion was, that the subject was so important,
And one affecting so .many interests—one which, he
believed, would effect a great and important change
in' • the contmercial relations with the Continent,
that it would be very desirable not to confine
an expression of opinion to this chamber, for there were
many gentlemen • who did not agree with then—many
members who could not be present that day ; mid he
therefore hoped- that a "delay of a few days would be
given to consider. the subject in all its, bearings, and to
enable them to come to some
,opinion *favourable as a
whole to the great principle which was laid down in
the budget. He believed this was one of the most im-
portant budgets ever presented to the House of Com-
mons (hear, hear), and that instead of looking at one or
two measures, it embraced a great many measures. and
in fact, there were enough changes and improvements
in it to make the future of three or four budgets, if they
were presented from year to year. He hoped-to hear
an expression of opinion. on the' part of the chamber,
and would like to see a resolution passed, Calling on
the mayor to give an opportunity to the commercial
community to express their views. He would now be
glad to hear any gentleman offer his opinion, and make
any recommendation.
•' Mr. DANSON said whatever the merits or demerits of
those who have brought about this treaty, it is certain,.
sir, that we stall not• do justice either to them or to our-
selves if we deal with it otherwise than in its commercial
aspect. Elsewhere it may be discussed a political
measure. Here we know nothing of polities. There is
but" one question
,we can properly ask,' and only-"one we
care to.ask ; and that is, what will be its effect on our
commerce with France? And to this question I am of
opinion that there can-be, to those who have fairly con-
sidered the whole subject, but one answer. To speak in
general terms, British manufactures, hitherto. very
generally prohibited from entering France altogether,
are now to be 'admitted at duties not exceeding 30 per
cent. on their value. It may be. said this is a high rate
of duty ; and so it is. But will it let in our manufac-
tures or not? Mr. Cobden thinks it will, and the
French manufacturers think so too ; and we may, until
the trial is made, safely assume that, to some extent,
they are right. Then, I say, here is a manifest gain ;
not pWe`
large immediately,, but great in proposal.
'We shall have broken through the first defences of the
French protective System ; and that done, when we
shall carry the fortress is a mere question • of time.
There- is not in France a door-handle, a loidc, a table-
knife or.a window-fastening that will not be condemned
by the common sense of the, people as soon. as it is COM-,
pared-with those of English make. It is true the price
of ours may be as high,-or even a little higher, than the
price of theirs; but in the quality there is no comparison.
And it is the' same with all our great manufactures—as
'earthenware, common plated goods, leather manufactures,
woollens, cottons, and linens---whereVerwe minister to
„utility and comfort, and not taste. The importations
,;may not be large; but ,they will be large enough to
bring about a comparison; and when the French people
learn what it is that the barrier, of 30 per cent. is keep-
ing put, it will not be loag before.they will hanker for
free-trade, nor much longer before' they will be ardent
free-traders. Prohibition' keeps, them in the dark—it
does not suffer them to know what they lose. Protec-
tion lets them taste, but forbids -them to take, all they
want. 'Hence it is that I am disposedlo regard this treaty,
should it-continnein operation only a few years, as the
sure forerunner of the downfall of the protective system
in France. Nor let it be ,su;sposed that there will be
wanting in France tongues and pens to interpret to the
French consumers the meaning, and the operation of
these 'duties. The only monthly periodical in Europe
exclusively, devoted to political economy—and it- is well
worthy of the rank it holds`—is the' Toutnal des Beene-;
mister of Paris. It has been steadily and successfully,
carried on for the last twenty years, under the guidance
of the leading members of 'thePolitical Economy Club
of Paris ; and remembering, the vigour and ability
already displayed by this body in its long up-hill fight
for free-trade, I do not, hesitate to affirm 'that, in
assenting to this treaty, 'notwithstanding 'the defeets
apparent on a superficial examination of it,, you will be
lending the influence, of the chamber to the most direct
and effective blow yet aimed at the protective system,
not' in France only, but throughout- the. Continent of
Europe. , Sir, a great. deal has already been said against
the treaty—and• much of it with apparent justice. It
is open to discussion, and it oughtio be discussed with
the utmost freedoM ; but I' amm firmly convinced that,
regarded from a commercial point of view, the more it
is considered the more. will it commend itself to those
who regard free-trade as the greatest blessing a com-
mercial nation can enjoy.
Mr. W. BROWN said he had great pleasure in second-
ing the resolution ' • for he, believed that no greater boon
could be conferred upon, this country, and no greatet
boon could-be conferred upon' FrSnee itself, than com-
mercial freedom between both countries. He regretted.
certainly that the treaty had not gone a little further,
and that the ships of both nations were not to be
admitted from every, part of the world upon the same
footing. But inasmuch as the treaty was still open to
discussion in the House of Commons, no doubt our re-
presentatives there would make themselves acquainted
• with the different views upon the subject, and endeavour
to secure the necessary amendments. As to the duty of
thirty per cent., his son-in-law, who was formerly one

-of the printers-of fine calicoes in this country,- hairgaid-
to him, " We have no fear of thirty per cent. ; if we only
get in at thirty per cent., we are quite a match for
France." A friend of his (Mr. Brown's), Mr. Cuntis,
`had recently biought two razors froM France, of beauti-
"ftil workmanship, and presented them to hiin. He'took
them to a cutler, who said, " These 'razors were never
made in France, they were made in. Sheffield; they are
French mounted, but they are English razors." How
they got there' under the prohibition he could not tell
them ; but' no treaty could be a one-sided treaty. If
they consented to take our manufactures, we muS take,
in some fashion, an equivalent—(hear, hear).—wines,
or silks, or other articles ; and these mutual changes
would no doubt contribute to the social comfort and
improvement, of both countries. We should give to
France what we could' make better than she could ;
and she would give to us what she could make better
and cheaper, and more ornamental, than we could. No-,
thine, he conceived, could confer a,greater boon. Any,
q
restriction was a curse ; but if there was any prohibition
that would be justifiable at all, it would be in regard to
spirits and wines, which were injurious to health, and
deteriorated the morals.of the people: .But lie believed
that was impossible. He believed if they did not admit
these articles at a moderate duty, they would he smug-
gled in spite of them, and the same deteriorating and
demoralising effects would take place. Uuder these
circumstances, be thought they should do everthing they
could. to encourage the French people to pursue the
course which-the Emperor had pointed out. to them.
Although probably the treaty was not all we •could
wish, it was an instalment, and he thought they should
not refuse an instalment, however small it might be. He
hoped that not only would this meeting sanction and
approve of the free-trade measures that France had thought
fit to adopt, but that the towu avould meet, and express
strongly its opinions as to having the commerce of France
opened. He rejoiced in the treaty, not only as respected.
commerce, but as respected our , political , interests.
(Hear, hear.) He viewed the political, interests as
important as our commercial interests. It would be the
greatest calamity that cini:d befall this nation to. be at
war with France. It would be the greatest calamity
they could have to be at war with us; and any trifling
sacrifice to preserve peace between the two nations, he
thought, would be a sacrifice very well and proper to be
made. They must reeollect that the French people
had a strong protective interest amongst them ; and
.they must recollect that the Emperor of' the French
had a bold battle to, fight with the protectionists. We
had to fight it out for ourselves; but now, happily, we
understood affairs better, and he hoped the example we
set to France might induceC them to follow us. He
was glad to see, through the- press, that the French
authorities had invited Sir John Bowring to a friendly
conference with them, who was a thorough free-tr.:der.
Sir John Bowring was treated with great courtesy and
kindness by the Empetor on the occasion, who 'seemed
to enter completely into the views of Sir John Bowring,
with respect to Tree-trade and' the opinions of the Eng-
lish people. In conclusion, he could not help congratu-
lating the country on the step which hid been taken by
the treaty, and he hoped the Chamber would 'continue,
as far as was in their power, to support and carry it
out. (Hear,'hear.)
Mr. CHRISTOPHER BHSFIELL said he desired to ad-
dress the chamber upon what might be called an im-
' portant matt rof detail. He had no doubt that what-
ever might be the opinion of the country with regard to
the commercial part of the treaty, there wouldtbe but
one universal feeling that if it tended to cement two
great countries together—to bind them more closely to-
gether in amicable relations—to prevent that spirit of
distrust which had, unhappily, for some time past pre-
',tailed, leading each nation to increase their armaments, and
thus injuring both nations,—if, by any means, that
spirit could be destroyed, and one of friendly and ami-
cable relatiozi could be‘substituted, unquestionably many,
sacrifices would be willingly made for that alone. (Hear,
hear.) But that did not preclude them from consider-
ing matters in detail in relation to this treatY. (Hear,
hear.) And there was one subject upon which he might
be considered entitled to speak with some authority,
inasmuch as it was a subject to which be bad given his
attention for some years—he meant the spirit duties
levied in this country. his views were in accord with
the views originally expressed by Lord John Itussell.
He held in his hand a correspondence, respecting the
negotiations with France, containing the instructions of
L,rd John. •Russell to Lord Cowley and Mr. Cobden ;
and it might be that the Chamber had not had that
correspondence laid before it,
The CIIAIRM.S.N.-Mr. Horsfall promised to send us
the correspondence.
Mr. BUSHELL read an extract' from the letter dated
January 17th, which was as follows :

With respect to brandy, the present duty is 15s. per gallon.
The lowest point to which, for any British purpose; her Majesty's
Government could propose to reduce the duty, would be 10s:
per gallon. The duty on British spirits made at home under
the'restrictions of the Excise is )3s. per gallon, and on British .
spirits brought over sea frOin the Colonies it is Bs. 2d. per
gallon. The aim with which this slight difference was intro-
duced, was that of establishing a perfect equality as between
the Customs ditty on the one description of article, and the
Custchns duty, together with the estimated cost indirectly
entailed by Ex:ise restrictions, on the other. Adverting, fo
the distinct nature, and very much higher market value, of
French brandy, and more especially to the interests of the Ex-
, cheiluer, the Queen's Government consider 10s. per gallon to
be the proper duty; If, nevertheless, you should find that by
makhg a concession, even beyand what I have named, you ettri
obtain from the government of the Emperor satisfactory
arrangements for early reduction of duty upon some important
commodities, you are autlibrised to engage for the reduction
of the duty' on brandy to the Same rate as that on British
spirits brought front the Colonies, namely, Bs. 2d. perg Ilion,
It would be necessary, however, t reserve, with a view to
this article, the right of increasing the duty by an equivalent
amount, in ease the domes ic duty should be increased; and
probably this might best be done by a geneial provision au-
thorising either government to impose on the importations into
, either of the two countries respectively, notwithstanding the
terms of the treaty, any duty not greater in amount than may
at any given tithe. be payable on the corresponding article of
domestic or colonial production.

This clause, Mr. Bushell said, in continuation, showed
that the Government thought that' 10s. was a sufficient
reduction upon the duty, being 33 per cent. The pro-
position he wished to bring before the chamber was one
of national importance—the equalisation of the duties
an spirits at the rate which was originally pro-
posed by Lord John Russell. The great argument
which would be brought against this treaty, would be
that. they were reducing the duty upon wine and upon
brandy, which had always been considered as luxuries
of the 'rich, while they were putting upon the middle
classes an ' increased income-tax, which was regarded
now as permanent, and thus doing wrong to the poorer
and' the middle classes; whose means are straitened,
and upon whose tables wine may never be seen. If it
were possible to get rid of that argument, he thought it
their duty to do so, and he thought it must be done by
a process which was not only just and right, but which
• would be acceptable to all c'asses in this country. He
had not the slightest idea of interfering in any way with
,the 'progress of this treaty; upon political grounds• he
would rather forward it, and as this was the time to
make any suggestion which they thought it desirable: to
makei• he' ventured. to ask the calm consideration of 'the
chamber on this important matter. The reduction of
the duty upon wine, as' proposed ,by the Chancellor of
tie Exchequer, after allowing for 'an increase of thirty-
five per cent. on consumption, would cause a
loss to the 'revenue of £515,000; and the reduction of
the duty' 'on brandy from 15s. to Bs. 2d., a loss of
£256;000; making a gross loss upon these reductions of
£766,000. Now bow could this be made up ? The
duty paid on rum in 1858 was paid on 3,427,585 gallons ;
on home manufactured spirits in England, Ireland, and
Scotland, 23,212,612 gallons; making a total 'of home ,
and colonial spirits of 26,646,197 gallons: An increase '
of duty on colonial spirits, at ls. 10d., would give
£314,195 ; an increase of 2s. per gallon on British would
give £2,321,261 ; and on brandy; at Is. 10d., assuming
no increase of consumption, there would be a gain of
£101,576; and therefore the equalisation of 'the duties
at 10s., the original proposal of Lord John'' Russell,
would give an increase to the revenue of £2,737,032,
which was equal to 2d. in the pound of income-tax.
He did not expect- this increase of duty would at- all
lessen the amount of consumption. It happened that'
in Australia'the duty upon all spirits was 10s. per gallon,
and the duty upon all.wines was 2s. ; therefore it was quite'
• clear that I.os. per gallon. was considered it fair ditty.'
. He believed it was known toolost of the members of that'
Chamber . that there was a larger consumption 'per'
' -head in Australia than in any other country, shewing
• that-the 10s. duty was mot a prohibition, nor did it
tend to the .diminution of the consumption; for not
only'did-they pay this high duty of lOs., but they also
'paid a much higher price than is paid in this country.
By adopting the proposal which be made, a clear reven'u
of two and a-half millions would, he felt certain, be
gained, and, what could be more just at such a time as
this. The diminution of the duties upon wine would not
at all affect the higher classes of. this 'country. Fine'
wine would always be difficult to obtain, and would
always be -at a high price, but he did not believe 'the
best descriptions would ever be consumed to a very large
extent in this country by any but the higher classes. The
wines were permitted to be imported when they contained

40 'per- cent. of alcohol, -which was strong enough for
Itny.refreahment,- and they.could.be obtanted at a cost:,
infinitely less than any other spirit, even gin. and ruin.
They therefore did the working man no wrong in placing
before him a healthful stimulant, diminishing its cost,
and saying to the spirit consumer,- who was an habitual
consumer of spirits, "This is a tat voluntarily imposed
pay,. if you will have spirits, 2s. per gallon of increased...
duty." It would be no prohibition to the indulgence of
this vice—for it was a vice among the masses of .the
people. All know that drunkenness is the groat source
of crime in this country. 'the judges, the deity, and
the magistracy would tell them, that drunkenness is the,
root of crime.i If they went to Scotland and asked the
clergy how it 'was that most of the people were net under
'religious control, they would reply; that-it was the
,eheap
whiskey.that• was-the difficulty. He contended that the.
working man would say that they were raising the 'Cost'
.of thatwhich was to be consumed. by the lower classes,
while they were diminishing the cost of that 'which, was ,
to be consumed by the' higher ,clasSes ;lint take this
proposal, and they would gain a revenue of two
millions and a half, and,•-at the same time make the
proposal acceptable to the' class who were to pay income-
tax. As the Chancellor was about to maintain the par
duties upon sugar and tea, he did ask him, and lie trusted
that chamber would ask him, before .he reduced the duty
upon spirits dowe to the proposed rate of Bs, 2d., that he
would ask the consent of the French'Empyror that the •
duty on spirits shall be 10s. at least for one year, and then •
they would see whether they could not raise this two-aud,,
a-half million from the most legitimate•source of revenue
that could possibly be conceived—a source which would
have the approval of every •right-minded man in this"'
country. (Hear, hear.) This .was the tiine td do it,'and
how much better to do it now in adopting .this 'treaty,
than to du it afterwards, perhaps with considerable dill
. culty. Those who entertained free-trade opinions very
strongly must bear in mind that the spirit duties form a
distinct category from any other tax. There was no
free-trader that would ~say -that-it was desirable to get
rid of the • spirit duties altogether. ;In the cause
of morality. • even, if this .cotintry were with- .
out a national debt, it would be necessary
to enact tolerably high spirit duties: There
Ids no . man' who would wish •to see these duties .
Igot rid of altogether. And now' he wanted to sliew that .
while the consumption of wine in this country had knot
increased for ,a great number of yeara—linctuating.be.:
tween six and seven millions of gallons per annittiii—and.
while they had an increase in, Ireland and Scotland on
•
! the spirit duty, yet the aggregate amount of spirits in
the three- countries had not dinainiShed: • 'ln 1840 there-
was an exceptional year, when there were consumed
in .England, eight millions of gallons; in Scotland six ;
and in Ireland no less than eleven- million gallons;
making a total 'of 25,000,000 gnlloirs: 'Then we got
down to 18,000,000 gallons ; •in 1854 to • 20,590,000
gallons. Since 1848, when the duties were equalised,
although they. found that there had. been *a diminished
consumption in Ireland, there had been *scarcely any
diminution in "Scotland,. marl 'the total aggregate
.was
3,500,000 gallons more thin it -was ten years ago.
He wanted that chamber earnestly to . consider this
as a. question of revenue. They were going to
tax the middle classes, who- would. feel the' tax most
oppressive, with an income-tax of 10d. in-the pound,
while they had the power to tax voluntarily, and had it
in their power to obtain by that means' 21 millions. of
. clear revenue. He would, therefore, venture to.moye.:—

" That in the opinion.of this chamber the spirit (*ties,
from whatever , point of view considered,. form a most
desirable and legitimate source of revenue: That the-
present moment, when a large reduction in the wine ,
duties .is proposed, which will place a wholesome and
less intoxicating stimulant within the:Means of all
classes of the community, is most favourable-for a re-
vision of the spirit 'duties. In the opinion of this
chamber, an
,equalisatien of these duties to,the amount
now levied • in' our'Anstralian Colonies upon all spirits,
at, say, 10s. per gallon, would produce. a greatly in-
creased revenue, and that such equalisation and increase
of duty would at this time meet With the general con-
currence and approval of all classes of the community."
He need not tell the 'chamber that it was not,' from per-
sonal niotives, that he
,made these proposali;* lie made
them utterly regardless of any circa, for although 11‘;
accident, and not froth choiee, he was a large dealer in
spirits, he would shut his doors to-morrow if he believed;
his doiiig so would tend to the increase of the morality
of the people. (Applause.)
Mr. BitowNHave you brought your Views before.
the Chancellor of the Exchequer ?
.Mr. BesnELL—l have ; but too late to have any effect
on the treaty. I have laid, my views before gentlemen
of all varieties of opinion—Mr. Aspinall and Mr. Bazley;
of Manchester, Lord Stanley, and other, members of Par-
liaMent; and I believe if the country would take this.
question up—and he should be delighted if theY Would—
they would gain this amount from this source of revenue.
There 'might • be' opposition ; there would be opposition
from the distillery,' Spirit dealers, agrictiltural, and
colonial interests, but the course of public opinion,And the
justice of the measure; would bealmoststire to prevail. I
I must guard the chamber against supposing that this
measure will lead to a reduction in the consumption ;
but I am sure it would produce a good revenue, and it
would be a tax upon. crime and immorality,, which I
believe would be the best tax that can be levied in this
country. (Hear, hear.)
The CIIATIVNiAN having Ascertained that it was not
the' intention of Mr. Bushell to put his 'I
-notion as an
amendment, said it would be better to dispose of Mr.
Danson's motion first, and then, to put Mr. Bushell's to
the meeting as a' substantive one.
Mr. TirommcsoN 'thought it would be rather putting
the chamber in a false position to express so strong an
opinion as‘that -which was contained in Mr. Dansores
motion, and thought they should first ask the opinions
of other msociations in the town. He, therefore, moved
,a resolution embodying his and in-Auding a
request to' the Mayor to calk a town meeting to con-
sider the question. Itefetrring to the third article of the
treaty, he said he' thought the shipping interest had
been entirely lost sight of, and said that'SOthe further
consideration ought to be given to' the question before
approving it.
Mr. CLINT seconded the amendment ;. and said he
was not quite sure whether it would be -well to have a
'town meeting, but he would leave it' to the.chamber to
settle. Redid 'not second the amendment out of-any
spirit of hostilitY, but because feeling that that chamber
carried more weight than'any other isolated.association,
he thought they should consider the matter'more before
coming to a decision. The shipowners intended havingr,
a meeting to-day (Tuesday) to consider the treatic as
far as it concerned their interest. He would remind
the chamber that,' ai far back as 181,9, a' retaliation
clause was inserted' in the Repeal Act, empowerinp• her
Majesty'to put in force the old laWS,,and although that
act had now been in force eleven years, during the whole
of that time France had not thehight proper to respond
to the free-tradeprinciple then adopted, and yet that clause
han'eier been put into operation. He cad not think they
had ever had such favourable opportunity for placing
the 'shipping of the two nations upon an.. equality; and;
he, was extremely sorry that the plenipotentiaries had
not had theirnttention called to the position in which
England-stood with regard to the snipping of France, and
that they had not been instructed to endeavour to carry
out those principles of free-trade which .we have long
adopted. He tbdught it would-be a grave error if they
sanctioned the treaty with this important omission. lie
'agreed with Mr. Brown, that trade Ought not to-be one
'sided ; and it was because he thought trade should be
perfectly free that he positively objeCted to that portion
of the treaty which exempted the shipping of 'ranee
'froth the operation 'of' 'the treaty. He 'hoped some
measures would 'be taken to call the attention of -.the
Trench Government to these circumstances,, and
.en-
•deavour to get the grievance redressed. He hoped the
chamber would agree with the suggestions of Mr.
Tiromliriscin, 'that by 'getting a little time. they might
have the matter properly discussed, and by that.means
arrive at a better conclusion.
• Mr..DANSON proposed that Mr. Thomlinson's motion
should follow his, but .
Mr. Tnommisrsorr said that would' not meet his views,
and •
Mr.' Curve said they could not give even a general
approval to a treaty which left the shipping grievance
untouched.' His object was to'place,that foremost. •
The CliAlltiKAN read the. reSolution, and said he
'thought it could not be more moderate in its expression.
They approved generally of `the details, but did not
approve of all its details, being open for a subsequent
meeting., or even a town meeting to do.
Mr. Dassos' said he was far from Approving of the
details of the treaty. 'lie saw many points which they
• were bound to say were great defectF.
' Mr. MACFM—Yes ; great defects.
Mr. Busunu,' said that as that Chamber received
delegates from various associations, there was . no doubt
that upon a question of such importance it would be
'desirable to postpone a decision until they had an,oppor-
tiinity of considering strictly the clauses of the treaty.
Mr. HALL did not see how there could be any hesi-

NORtIiER:N., DAILY TIMES.