Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1859-05-18 00:00:00

SELECT_ VESTRY,

The torttiightly meeting of the Select Vestry was held at
ten o'clock yesterday, Mr. Churchwarden Jones presiding.
The other members present, were—Messrs. Cropper, Owen,
Scott, Broome, Peck, Bairstow, Cooke, Satchell, Hand,
Denton, Turner, Whitby, Smith, Melly, Williams, Gair,
and Batellell.

A'ORICROVSE COMMITTEE

Mr. Cropper moved the 'confirmation of the proceedings.
Mr. Denton asked where the responsibility rested with
regarded to the spiritual instructions of the inmates, if there
were any neglect ; and also, seeing that a considerable time
must elapse before the new chaplain took his place in the
workhouse, whether there had been any complaint as

regarded the attendance of the gentlemen appointed to
perform the duties during the vacancy.

Mr. Cropper gild it was Rector ,Grampbell's arrangement
'that his curates should undertake the duties during the
interval, and upon that uuderstaading the committee had
voted three mouths' salary to Mr. Wilson, which he (Mr.
Cropper) connived ;/as-in itself a mistake. They began the
giew•system, and there had been several little inconveniences.
"-One, Sunday th9re was only one service, and on two
aturdays 'tnere was no visit made by those gentlemen.
'However,-there were only three weeks now to elapse before

the new'chaplain came ; and he hoped that after what had
been said,. the curates whohad undertaken the duty would
see that 'it was performed to the satisfaction of the work-
house committc
The

remat

d that he thought the duties were
d as well as 'the committee could

'upon ti

expect honorary-duties-to be.
Atter some conversation, th
proceedings were confirmed.

subject droppei

IND'CWITLIAL SCHOOLS' COMMUTE}

The Chairman took occasion to remark that there
appeared to he a great deal of unreasonal

the part

of some persons, in the employing of girls from the
industrial schools as servants. There was a case mentioned
in the minutes, -in which a person having eleven in family
applied for a little girl, aged about fourteen or fifteen years,
and he was led :to understand that that girl was expected to
do the whole washing for that family of eleven or twelve at

wages of (
the alleged
were taken into places where more was expected from thet
than was reasonable. The children in consequence failec,
and had to come back to the schools, and that very failure
and return to the schools might perhaps be the cause of
failures in other situations, or might keep them in the
schools beyond the proper age, and perhaps finally make it
incumbent upon the committee to transfer them as paupers
into the workhouse. He thought the attention of the
public ought to be called to the subject, and also that a
more strict attention should be paid by the committee to see
that children of that age were not permitted to go to,
situations of that sort.

This was one cause o.
3. Children of such age!

Mr. 'Peek asked if there had been any other statement
than the girl's as to what the chairman had just mentioned.
The Chairman said the mistress did not admit the whole
of the statement. Any mistress who could do so must be
lost to all sense of shame.
Mr. Peek thought it was rather unfair, in such a case, to
place an implicit reliance upon the unsupported statement
of the girl.
The Chairman said the girl was the only servant in the
house, and somebody must have done the work.
Mr. Cropper : Some of the children might have done part
of it.

Mr. Peck : They, might have had the help of a char-
woman.

The. Chairman said, although the whole statement might
not have been implicitly correct, yet it was certainly one
of a class of cases to which it was right to draw the attention
of the committee and of the public.

-THE REV. MR. DOYLE.
The following letters, addressed by the Rev. Mr. Doylc
Roman Catholic clergyman, were read :

TO THE COMMITTEII OF THE INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS

—I res•

=" Gentlemen, eectfully request you will give an
order to discontinue the use of the History of England
which is at present taught in the schools. It is very ob-
jectionable to Roman Catholics in many places. Ince's
Outlines of English History is unobjectionable. It con-
tains much more information than that in present use, and
it is supplied, to schools by the Board of Education. May I
again have your. indulgence to request the appointment of
a Roman Catholic schoolmistress. Our poor little girls are
in great necessity of such an appointment.
" I hope those cases which have lately been before you
regarding the •religious denomination of certain children
will be settled as soon as it may be convenient. I remain,
gentlemen, your humble servant, " RICHARD DOYLE.
" 155, Great Horner-street, April 18, 1859."

.4 P.S. -I should have called your attention to the case of
children named White. They bad been in the schools not
long since, registered as Roman Catholics, their mother
being at the time in the workhouse. The father having
returned from sea, the mother took her children out with
her, and in a little time, spent in dissipation, the husband's
wages. She then went to lodge on the opposite side of the
street, and -sent her children; as deserted by both parents,
'to the workhouse, by her former landlady, who, I suppose,
told Mr. Carr they were protestants. I think, without
blaming Mr. Carr, there should be a rule for such cases. I
know he has acted in a different manner, and had the case
of the 'Whites been reversed, he would not have registered
them Catho!ics.

TO THE. COMMITTEE OF THE INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL

—I regret that a respectful request, or a
courteous suggestion, should have been interpreted by
' some of the members' of your former committee as a
dictation' from me, and that a public reprimand should
have been administered to tae for that alleged dictation,
and the liberty I had taken in writing to the committee.
Have I entered into a contract, and received something in
-the shape,of .a bribe or doueeur to be silent, while I find
those entrusted to my care demoralised ? What payment
1 get (Or my labours at the schools is from the poor Roman
Catholics of Liverpool, whom I represent in any
-applications which I make to the Select Vestry,
and who expect me to teach their children,
-who are compelled to have recourse to parish relief, the
~duties of their religion, and to guard their faith and morals.
Irrespective of such an obligation, I feel my responsibility
as .pastor of the Roman Catholic children, and I shall not
shrink from it. To you, as their legal guardians, .1 shall
be obliged to have recourse as often as their legal rights are
outraged, and as long as their moral and spiritual necessities
cannot be remedied by the present state of affairs.
" In the case of the children named White, I believe
their rights have been outraged, and that the criminality of
their parents should not be the cause of their proselytism.
I know that a different course is pursued in all cases where
children had been registered as Protestants, on their first
entry -to the workhouse.

" Gentlemen

" Another case is that of the child named Margaret
.O'Conner. Her mother had been a Roman Catholic, and
died before her father had taken his children to the work-
house. While he and his children had been in the house—
be being a Protestant—this girl (according to her statement
before Mr. Coates) had been recognised as a Roman
Catholic, and went to Hope-street. Chapel; and she also
stated that her father told her to do so. On her
father's death, the governor of the Workhouse told her she
vas a Pntestant, and compelled her to give up going to
the Roman Catholic Chapel, and sent her registered as a
Protestant to the schools. She gave me the address of her
aunt, and, on investigation, I find the statement of the
child corroborated by this aunt. Mrs. Mitton stated to me
that the father of this child made a promise to her mother,
when dying, that the girl should be brought up a Roman
Catholic. He made the same promise to the aunt. Ido
not •see why it is not so.

"it is wita. reluctance I am obliged to say the manage-
ment and discipline of the girls' department of the schools
is in a most useless condition, and that instead of improving
it injures the children. With the exception of those who
have been born and bred in the haunts of vice and crime,
I believe nine of every ten, particularly of the grown girls
'who come to the schools, have suffered rather than profited
by their time ',there. I have observed this since I commenced
to attend the schools. On yesterday, at least fifty
girls ab exited themselves from chapel; and on the
week mornings more or less are always absent from the
religious instruction. I would be sorry to think you could
sanction such conduct, or the management or discipline
which creates it, and With it a host of vicious habits, most
surely to be the ruin of these poor children. It is sad to
reflect that the Borough Gaol is scarcely, I may say never,
without some girl who had been a pupil of the Industrial
Schetols. I recollect having asked the matron of that
prison once whether there were any of them there at that
time. and her answer, if I recollect rightly, was—Eight 11
or nine.

“Excuse me,pgoeourtlemill, if lam not satisfied with the n i
tion of these
with the provision made for
who are under my rec.°. nor
with moral welfare. Til'il-1.-ie
vat from prejudice, appeali to you
other than justice to the poor and and thoroughly
from motives
dependant orphan—justice to my o„ineleess'
sfeience, and charity
to you, On account of your responsibilitnilitzrouthe moral and
temporal welfare of all these children,tphteiocno.ra-
” I therefore again beg to call your attention exec;
com-
munications which I have already forwarded tno to
you, and to
subscribe myself your humble servant, " R, Doyi,„.
4` et: 4400,ny'h May 9, 1859."

Mr. Bairstow ritoved tbeconlirnation of the proceedings.
He said the committee 'would be specially called tog-ether
to consider th,P.cases of complaint urged by Mr. Doyle, and
he had no doubt the best attention would be given to the
subject matter of them. He believed he could say on
behalf a the committee that any suggestion coming from
Mr. Doyle in a proper and gentlemanly spirit would be
received by them in the same spirit, and that they would
pay all proper deintenee and respect to any reasonable
reqoirement. But •anything in the shape of dictation, or
unseemly language—as he considered the letter just read
contained to some extent—must be resisted in sonic
manner. (Hear, hear.) He hoped that in any further com-
munication from Mr. Doyle, that gentleman would address
them in a gentlemanly and Christian spirit ; and if he did
so his communications would undoubtedly be treated lay the
committee with all proper respect. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. Smith said part of the letter contained a charge
upon the governor. That charge ought to be fa illy gone
into. (Hear, hear.) Either the governor was guilty or
he was not guilty, and he hoped the committee would have
Mr. Corr and. Mr. Doyle before them.

Mr. Bairstow : Oh, certainly. No doubt the committee
mill feel bound to enquire into the charge made against Mr.
another course

in another

Mr. Cropper said it was only fair to say that the governor
of the workhouse positively denied that he would have done
what Mr. Doyle attributed to him. As the governor's
reputation was very dear to him, the contradiction ought to
acpompany the charge.

-The Chairman said the charge was simply one affecting
motives, not fact—a charge very easily made, and very
difficult to refute. There was much said about the necessity
of peace and harmony in the transaction of their business.
How was it possible that the proceedings of that committee
could be conducted with harmony and good feeling so long

, ~, 0 0
a
as they had from time to time communications of such
character, and written in such a spirit, as that now before
them ? (Hear, hear.) The committee were charged with
positively demoralisiug the children under their manage-
ment. He wondered whether the gentleman had really

langaage he used—the full
red. Were they, as a com-

spending their time and exhibiting, as they did, so
mach interest in the social and moral condition of the
children, to be charged coolly with demoralising them ?
He declared it a shame for any man who could thus apply
such a phrase. (Hear, bear.) They were charged too with
outraging the rights of the children. A pretty picture was
drawn, by Mr. Doyle, of the unprotected condition of the
children, by which. to appeal to the feelings of those. for
whom the letter was -written—for there could be no doubt
that it was written for those out of doors—and then, after
representing the unprotected character of the children, Mr.
Doyle charged the committee with outraging their rights.
He begged to tell that gentleman although indeed he
needed not to tell him, for he knew himself - that every
right which properly belonged to any of the children, there
was no member of the committee who was not anxious to
maintain and protect./ There was no application which Mr.
Doyle ever made for any privilege, which properly belonged
to any child in the school, either Roman Catholic or Pro-
testant, which the committee were not at all times anxious
to accede to. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Doyle had had
the greatest courtesy extended to him from time to
time. He had been invited to be present, in order
that the appearance as well as the substantiality of
impartiality might be preserved. He had been permitted,
contrary to all usnage, to take part in this investigation, and
very extensively to dictate to the committee while pursuing
the enquiry; and yet the committee were charged, in cold
blood, by that gentleman -for what purpose he (the chair-
man) did not know with outraging the rights of those
children.

The proceedings of the committee were then confirmed

FINANCE COMMITTEE

Mr. Cropper, in moving the confirmation of the pro-
ceedings, stated that the committee recommended a change
in the mode of collecting the rates, and a reduction in the
number of collectors. The committee had gone into the
subject very minutely. They came to the conclusion that a
certain number of assessments might be added to the parish
collectors' duties, the parish collectors having expressed
themselves perfectly able and willing to undertake the
additional work. It was not the intention of the committee
to give any additional pay for the collection of those rates.
Up to the present time, the. collection of the cottage-
collectors, of whom there were five, had been
somewhat less than 6,000 assessments each, the number
of assessments being 29,000. It was now proposed
to reduce the number of cottage collectors to, four, and to
take 6,000 assessments from their number, and give 1,000
each to the parish collectors, being assessments of such
valuations as £l2, £l4, or £l5, which the committee con-
sidered were not properly cottage collections at all. The
remaining cottage assessments, 23,000 in all, would leave
to each of the cottage collectors the same number as before
—somewhat less than 6,000.

Mr. Hand opposed the change, on the ground that if the
parish collectors were not paid additionally for the additional
duties imposed upon them, they could not be expected to
discharge the duties with equal attention. Mr. Hand
moved, as an amendment, that the subject be referred back
for further consideration, but the amendment not being
seconded, fell to the ground.

Mr. Owen suggested the propriety of adopting in Liver-
pool the system of having the rates upon small cottage
property levied upon the owners, and not upon the occupiers.
Some discussion took place upon the subject, the chair-
man differing from Mr. Owen's opinion, and other gentlemen
supporting. it. No motion, however, was proposed in
reference to it.

The proceedings were then confirmed. This concluded
the public business of the vestry.

-.--

To SHIPPERS AND EXPORTERS.— A most profitable
article of export, to warm climates especially, are the Self-
cleansing Charcoal Filters, patented by Messrs. Saunders
and Co., of IG, Parker-street, Liverpool—in fact they are
invaluable wherever there is bao water. S. and Co. allow
a liberal discount on export and wholesale orders.
It is a well known maxim that "time is money"—the

terms are relative •so to save one is to save the other. We
save both time, and economise patience, and present good
tempers, when we have a good PEN-a bad one upsets pati-
ence and temper. Preserve all, then, by purchasing your
steel pens and other stationery, at E. T. Hall's whole-
sale steel pen warehouse. 23, South John-street. John
Gillott's, Thomas Lowe's, G. W. Hughes, and other maker's
pens at is per gross. Good Pen Holders 2d per dozen. d
THE GREAT CONFLICT IN EUROPE AND CASSELLS IL,-
LITSTRATED FAMILY PAPER.-With No. 79 of " Cassells
Illustrated Family Paper," for May 23, will be issued a
grand and comprehensive Map of Europe, measuring 38
inches by 22. This map, engraved on copper from au-
thentic documents, forms a complete historical, political,
and commercial hart of Europe. The sites of battles,
remarkable sieges and assaults, naval engagements, &c.,
with the date of each conquest, and the names f the
contending powers, as also the dates of political revolu-
tions are inserted. The places where treaties of peace and
commerce have been signed are shown, with the dates of
such treaties, &c. The boundaries of Austria and the
Italian States are also clearly defined. In No. 79 will also
be commenced a new tale, by Mr. J. F. with, entitled
" Milly Movne ; or, Broken at Last." The price of the
map and Yo. 79 of the paper together will be 2d. Those
who wish to procure a copy of No. 79 should order at once.
—London : Cassell, Pettey, and Galpin.

HOLLOWAY'S OINTMENT AND PILLS. -Th e ulcers,
tumours, pimples, and discolorations of the skin, which arise
from impure blood, ill-regulated secretions, or some heredi-
tary taint, often defy science, but can never long resist the
action of Holloway's Pills and Ointment. Ladies accus-
tomed to apply astringent lotions to eruptions on the face,
breast, and arms, should he warned that no practice is more
dangerous. They throw the disease inward, and put life
itself at stake. The only really safe and effective cosmetic
ever yet prepared is Holloway's Ointment, which, assisted
by his pills, will subdue the most obstinate cases of skin
disease.

Fast men, like fast rivers, are generally the shallowest.
A pßErry SHARP RETORT. Two young ladies, very
genteelly dressed, were riding along in a London bus. One
of them, whose features were more remarkable for an
excessive prominence of nose than anything else, exhibited
to the other a daguerreotype of herself, which she said had
just been taken .down town, and they were engaged in
discussing its merits, when an elderly lady got into the bus.
She was evidently one of those inquisitive yet good natured
souls who take a deal of innocent liberty _in the world
without thinking any harm. After riding a square or so
she reached out her hand, and said to the lady with the
picture : " Please let me look at it" Her modest request
was met with an indignant frown, and the reply, as the
case was returned to the lady's pocket, was "It's none of
your business!' The' old lady settled back in her seat very
complacently, when the companion of the one with the
picture asked : " What do you wish to do with it?" " Oh,
nothing," replied the old lady, "I only wanted to see how
successfully the artist has put such a nose on so small a
plate!" The omnibus was full, and the shout of laughter
which followed the retort could have been heard a full
square, The lady with the daguerreotype covered her face,
with the refs,
ATIL4 Aroppod the subject during the remainder I
of the ride.