Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1859-12-09 00:00:00

WORKS COMMITTEE.

The committee recommended the acceptance -of the
following tenders :—Messrs. A. Morrison and Co., to
supply a cargo of greenheart timber froM bemerara
and Mr: Walter Morgan, to supply btushes.--• -•=The report
of the engineer as to -the giving way ofTlie ,wall in front
of the Birkenhead DocleWarehouSe was read, and the:
Committee had•direct;ed that all necessary steps be taken
to secure
.the wall.
Mr: Rankin moved, and Mr. Shand seconded, the
confirmation of the proceedings. . -
Mr. BOULT
_asked if the Engineer could give the
board any idea as to what would, be the expense of re-
pairing this wall at:Birkenhead, and the warehouses that
were going-, down. , •
The "ENorNiuii—l cannot, indeed, for, I have not
made up•my mind yet as to which Will bellie best way
of securing it. ~ I cannot tell you until, we-see how the
damage has arisen. •
Mr. Bduth--1-4A few thousands more or less ?

The ENGINEER—A good many thousands.
Mr. BouLT—I thought, as much. ,
Mr. RAN KIN said it was a very fortunate circumstance
that the fault had discovered itself before the water had
been again let into the docks.
AVAREROLISE CONIMITTEE.

A report having-been -read from the Superintendeg-
of the Stanley, Dock Warehouses, upon the disadvantages
at WhiCh.those warehouses are placed from the: want 'or
means for promptly'affording ioading bertha for vessels
discharging cargoes theicein,-. the -commit tee:resolved that
the. report be referred to the. Docks and QUays
mittee,(Avith the hope thatit would'hefOundiiyacticable;
to- carry out the puggtstionS: contained therein, ;and to
grant the accommodation required at collingwood Dock,
which appeared to the committee to be 'essential to the
profitable -wprking ,_of; the Stanley, „Dock Warehouses.
The committee had ordered sin of James's patent weigh-
ing machines for the Stanley• Dock Warehouses';' those
that had beeirtried-thnre lately- having been found very
useful and efficient r
Mr. Hubbaek -moved; -Mr. Segar seconded, the
confirmation of the-yroceedings.
The CifilinfAic; in!_;aiiiNier to' ML Boult, said there
had been a slight loss- during the week on the working
9f-,the Birkenhead dock warehouses.
The proceedings were confirmed.
_ .
_ .

. MARINE COMMITTEE.
The proceedings of thii committee were read, and
theintonfirmatfon- haVing beeninoved by Sft:'lV/ondel„
- was seconded by Mr. Maclver.
- Mr. GravEs-said he did not know whether the 'Board
. would have' noticed that; owirig'to the *ondeffid despatch
ef steam between the West and. Liverpool, Oa Canada,
the" Chicago maili•had just'been-delivered in Liverpool,
---after:a conveyance over 4;000 'Miles, in -twbli•e'clays and.
a few hours. This had been effected by a 'steamer
niaking'a• northern passage, and showed that Liverpool,
after - •
Mr: Mex.WEB, said he had a distinctobjection to that
board being made a "puffing shop " for any line 'of
•steamers.
Mr..G,l3.Ays resumed—The vessel-to:which )19 referred
arrived-offtlie Bell Buoy at 12 o'clock on Tuesday, and
there was no opportunity of representing to the' Cow:.
signees of the vessel. that she was there:;- The result was
that the Mails were detained on board the 'vessel off the
Bell' Buoy, for several' hours. Now he'b'elieVed that it
was a part of the scheme laid down by the_Marine Com-,
mittee, that in the course of time the North-west Light-
Ship should be connected by telegraph with' Holyhead),
and .heiwished slow to ask the .chairman' of_ that com-
mittee whether he contemplated, 011 an early
.day, con-
nectiiii the cable*ith the-North-westLightship, because.
so, strong an instance of the value of thetelegraph as we
had, had within the last few days:was important ,to be
noted, and perhaps it might lead-to *the 'question being
taken up on an earliee-day-than it otherwise would be.
It was only a question of a few hundred pounds al-
together.
Mr. MA.clvEn. said he was obliged to the upon this
question. It was all very well to make one thing- a
reason for introducing another. No doubt Mr, Graves
liad'no intention at all' to do so-when •hb "'began it; but
under that there lay a great deal of injustice to-the port
of Liverpool.
The .0 liAntlielAN-1- think this should-not gO; on:
MAclvEn,continued. Grapes had toldthem
that'there was a disability under. 'which the
.port of
Liierpobtlaboured;- and that that Walithat a vessetconld
arrive at the- bar and could not send her mails:up to
Liverpool. Now the vessels which Mr. Giaves wanted-.
Speeiataecommodation for Would, in 'fiitiire, Mild their
mails; fit; ,g9sk,_ and a telegraph to,the north-west
• lightiliip:fonnhourthe the arrival of a vessel off that ship
would ,not;-'tifter the steamer 'had Called -atleork and
landed her mails, accemplisli-the 0,04 Mr. Graves
had in view, when he commenced his speech. , •
• Mr.' GitkYis desired say'that-• he 'spoke in the
interest of no.company; that he had not :had any com-
munication with any company, and that -
Mr: MACIvER::—Why does-nbt accord with-common
sense, to telegraph , the , vessel when she has previously
called at Cork, and landed her mails.
Mr. GnAVE.4 enitviished-to add that he• had spoken
simply in the interest:of the'port.-
. Mr. MONDRI., in replyingto the question put by Mr. ,
d-raves, :said when'first hespoke of carrying' a line of
telegraph to Holyhead, he stated publicly at. the ,board
that it was his intention,. if permitted, to work out the
systeM, and to' continue the line to the- light=ship's'; that
,heihad it ino4ew.Ao make -each-, light.-ship life-boat
station; that the intelligence of a wreck from,* shore.
could be conveyed there, if not already ilnOwn'there ;,
and that intellikencebT a—wreck known on board the'
light-ships could- be ;communicated to the shore, and-
thus the means-for saving life be' more speedily brought'
into play.
.Thv CumipirAN—We will not go_intoj,hat furtheyfi
_Yeti have answered Mr. Graves, and that is Sufficient.
-Mr. MONDEL-4 only •Wanteett& say their haVe it in
,:,•0.9w, if I am permitted to carry itout-, (Hear,:hear.).
.The proceedings were then confirmed.
• -
PILOTAGE:COMMITTEE.
vl The prOeeiliiigs of thiieoinniittee-ivere 'r6d'and, on
the,motion:of-Mr. Shand, seconded ; by; ;Mri-Farnworth;'
confirmed. , ,
DOCKS AND QUAYS' COMMITTEE.'

• I I

The committee- &it* considered 'the resolution of
the Warehousl Compittew vetpred that they could not
recommend tilt iSuggestion' OF.that committee to be
carried into effect—that the Collingwood-dock be made
an_kipartrolooki for vessels discharging into the Stanley-
dockdWarehouses.
.Tbe following letter, addressed to,
'Mt! Redision; the senior 'harbour ' master; was laid
:fbefete 'the committee
Dear the steamers on the Belfast line having now,
come into our hands, we big 'to' gay; we iliall"gi*el up our
berth on •the east side of Clarence-dock,. and will, work .34:.
"Citutt steamers in the 'berth West side of 'Clarence-dock,
hy,*P4Prozfi
s;ilallgtryp•-7-Youp„xery trulyf
nrowirßanrow, ec'JourisoN•
31±..,LecitErT,4inmovinitithe contirmErtion9of the piol
seeding,, swill, if, the, suggestion r, of the, :Warehouse, Cola.;
Mittee had been adoPted im-
ipeded the workii4r of tlim9Nolian attd‘Bramley.:Moore
Dockis:. The committeeleltrthaithe Cp,llingwood Dock
we's)guitable for ati-expOkt dock"
;'' iiicrtliey' would have
been; very glad to Nave .appropriated it t - for the purpose
if they could have, seen their !way ,te proyi,d.e,foOhose
pines of'coasting steamers which now occupredherths in
the Collingwood Dock. ProbablyL would`
the Warehouse-Committee would meet the Docks and:
Quays Committee,pn Wednesday next, when they would.
see the impossittilitY'd the iequest being acceded to. '
Mr. MAclvEn, in seconding the confirmation of the •
prpoeedittgo, Saislythattwd years ago, and before he had
a seat at that board, he pointed out)thejvil o 4 bolting
ditt the steamer` to the north docks., .•Ndw this appli-
talon:was a part of the seine system.; and he could only
!fay, for the steam; interest, that ,ifthosailiing..ship owners
would give up that fancy. dock=the'Prince's Doak—to
the steam interest, they should reCisid, in' :rettitlif for it
,the,Ctollitigwpod Dock. (Laughter.)
Mr. Tfunaitcx. thought the §team,trade had no cause.
101ocomplaint:-LAuiticthi reVerseq; 'W-46FAVitli regard to
,tile report , the, pperintendeat , of itheAtanley(Dock
warehouses, the simple question tOr the board con-
sider was, whether seeing the"lift6'.'emotuit'Of yrioneY
which had been expenilkd-in-making the Stanley Dook.
warehouses,
POre
tliey,,should or 5(10u,14, inp,t pat , that large,
outlay in such a politionaethatatrafitable ;pato. should -
ensue. The Warehoise;'inittee would be glad to
meet the Docks and' Quayd 'Committee, and fully open
tip the question. He waeg'lad to see that a berth had
been given np in the Clarence pock,, because they might
be able to persuade a line of steamers to leave the eol-

lingwood and go to the Clarence Dock. (Hear, hear,
and laughter.) '
- The proceedings were then confirmed. -s- •

MASTER POB.TBRE4 COMMiTTEE.
answerln to a communication from, Messrs. Boult,
-English, and Brandon, this Committee expressed its'
opinion that, for the convenience of the trade Of the port,•
it was desirable that a copy of the manifest of each
vessel should be 'furnished to the master porter by the
owner or consignee. ,
On the motion of Mr. Rounthwaite, seconded by Mr.
SeOr the proceedings Were confirmed.
~Mr. BOULT was at aloss, he said, to 'know. how it
could be for the convenience of the trade of the port to
= make the' liability, in the matter referred to, rest upon
the consignee or owner of the ship. . '
The CHAIRMAN, in. answer to Mr. Maclver, stated
his belief that Mr: Arnold would shortly be at home,
and that,. then,ithe whole question of master porterage
would be considered. •
An applieition from Mr. F. May, a blerk in the check-
office, for an increase to his present salary of £lOO a-year,
was referred to the Finance Committee.
A DOCK-YARD AND ARSENAL AT BIRKENHEAD.
The following letter from John Laird, Was read:---
Ciarendon Hotel, Leamington, Dec. 7;:185G:
enclose copy of a letter I addressed to the Albion
last week, on, the subject'of Naval Arsenals and Dockyards.
I have also been in communication wits the Government
authorities an the subject.
• s
As I consider the interests of the Mersey Docks and Harbour
Board: will be most beneficially affected by Such a proposal:
being carried out; I hope they will, hiconjunetion, if requisite,
with the other publie.bodies in Li-V_MPOO3 land -the, neighbour-
hoed, urge opon the Government the importance of having
the district I named surveyed and reported en before Coming,
to any decision as to the extension of the present arsenals and
'tloakyards, or construction of new ones.
The result of •such a survey would, I ant confident, show
the- Goieritment that no other lOCality- can be- 'so -beneficially'
and economically adapted for the purpose as the one sug-,
"guested: Whether in-relation to the first cost of such an estab-:
. lishment, or to its permanent maintenance.
'ln this opinion r am -supported" by that of many competent
- naval and nillitar7 authorities, who have cOmmunica,ted with
'me since the publication Of my letter, " and I trust the 11 ers e y
. -Board may ,consider 'thq
.question of such importance as to
indude theni to comply with my request.---I am, sir, your
, obedient Servant, Joins LAIRD:
Tolhe-Chairinan of the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board.
'!The CHAIRKAN thought there -was no doubt that,
what Mr. Laird proposed would appear to, be advan.:
tageous to . the port, and certainly it would be an
'...advantage to the estate-; • therefore they 'would en-
- courage it as far as theyptild.
Mr. MoNnEL—ls`tiais'the time to discuss the subject ?
The CHAinmix---2-0h !' certainly. •-
Mr. MoNDEL--,Then if no one, else will say,a word
on this qUestion, I will. He thought it was one day
that week- -he read ihe report Of the-committee on the
Dock-yard Establishments. and: the 'arguments . were,
that wherever the Government Establishments were,.
trade COnlcEnot prosper: That was thesubstance of the
report of a commission _sitting upon this-very question.;
and he would, therefore, have this board, and those
who were interested in -the trade of -the port of Liver-
pool, well to consider the report before they recommended-
the adoption of this port as a naval arsenal and dock-.
yard:. There was' no doubt that ;Wherever' her 'Majesty's
vessels came,:, the merchant ship was at an. immediate
discount; and it was not, long .since that, at this port, a,
vessel was much inconvenienced:- One of her
large .frigates'eame to an-anehor, and sent 'a vessage ,to
one of the Philadelphia steamers, ordering her out of
the way to allow her Majesty's ship room to 'swing. He
would warn -'.gentlemen interested in the --commerce
of the port, that whenever they brought war
Vessels-and an arsenal here, they would bring a blister
upon the back,of commerce: that they could not easily:
shake off. He hoped the port of Liverpool. ould -never
be made into -a naval arsenal. - • -

Mr..GR.AvEs said .the proposal -struck, him as one-of i
. those things which was of great importance to the port,
and one- that should be very seriously censidered by one
of the committees :of the boatd. It_ would -be very un-
wise of the board, at that moment, to commit itself to a,:
hasty' Opinion in the face -of the report td which Mr.
,:Mondel hadalluded.th ; and.he was-sure if the matter :
went., to a committee, that it would have their con.-
sideration free from all prejudice, and would 'be met.
.with a desire to . carry ,out the *scheme, and-to assist in
every possible way, if the board should hereafter con-
sider it desirable one Mi: a: .' Minder had alluded 'to the
c_absence of tiadeat theexisting.arsenals of the country, but
then, all those establishments were placed at a port where'
there was little or no trade, and-everything beodine sub-
,servient to _them. If, however, an fl.rfaCqi Ai , WASI placed 'at
this port, the trade of the port was so enormous and the in-
terests connected with it so great that the arsenal would be
absorbed entirely in the trade of the. port;: and, although
a man-of-war or two might occasionally,come here mid
cause a little inconvenience to steadiers, yet the trade
flowing from the establishment of an' arsenal here would
be gr.eatthe carrying of timber and merchandise of all
ideicitiitionsWould be so large—that it struck him at the
first blush.ithat_the board mould be considerable. gainers.
The estate had a large pantity of Anoccapiediand at
nrireTil -and he, therefore, thought they should
~„., . .. .
give very serious consideratiop. to .the question .
Mr. Tonix supposed that it 'was not- expected the
board should express any opinion oa-the- question at the
present:tune.
- --The-CaAnestAN—Oh, no.
Mr. TOBIN continued,--Thee were two sides certainly
to the questioh:- He hare-ad-With considerable atten-.
tion the evidencetakeii-b-y;--and the report of, the com-
mittee alluded to by Mr.. Mondeland it Certainly had
opened his eyes in a way he had not. expected they.
would have been. There was a good deal of matter for
thought; in the: fact that if once Goveininent gat a hold
and a standing on the-estate, judging from the experience,
of Other places, -it-- might -beconie injurions to the port..
'..He did not wish.t.o say alvord- against the pioPosal of
Mr. Laird at the present, time, , : but, they must
not be led away by the' ' first - bliiSh- Of the
thing which scumed----to- point in the direction
of an encouragement of.cOnltarCe;:because if the arsenal
was placed on land which, although not now, might be
hereafter,' required for Commercial purposes the board,
Ity assenting to that, might: do that which might prove
injurious to the commercial interests of Liverpool. They,
should-Proceed with ierY great eantiori in the matter.'
The committee to whom the question might beimierred
should carefully read over the evidence to which Mr.
:'lSiditdel.liad'alruded-before coiningln .any decision, be-
cause if the board allowed the' movement to .he established
or encouraged they might not be able to, shake it off,
even iflhAy de'si.Yed at a Asap:lent lieriiid'to do so. -
(i- ,The cuth.lintmc_-,,:Wi1l you ,theirTefer the matter to.
-the Marizie..and Works Committees ?._ ~ ;II
Mr: SitAiiii-e(eitaiiili ' did not'lvt'sh to Wino:hided as
one.of those.:in favour' of ' the iiroposition;'because his'
feelings were raths against than for it, „at,,thpripresent.
'indinent. ' jthel'ffiatter was 'one -at vihiel-they should
look with the greatest interest, but at the' smile time'
with marked caution._ ~,

Mr. RANKIN did not concur tbe, remarks of
Mondet°. btettu,si wirt pltleed on a site 'not'
occupied by commerce, hi believed, se far from being,
injured, the trade of fhe port would be benefitted.
(.I.'Dti..l.ltA.'akiiit'said, if Mr. Rankin and others could!
eatisfy,thdhiselVeg that: theriswasltmbonnded anchorage
in the river ,to accommodate urea-of-war--for th.eypould
not go into doclithen 'it -Was- their look out, as corn.:
rimermal men, .whether-they cauld,agrec .to: the Proposal.,
The cAtestion really was, whether th9re was unbounded:
therefore,•he gfie no opinion oh'
lthigndaject... . I •
The letter
,wa4 reeerN4 to. ajoint committee, corn-
po's'ed of the Maritielrabld WOrks Coliiiiiittees. •
el' rift 'kERCANTILi ASSOCIATION AND THE
bat.; • - PILOTAGE' COM'MIT'TEE.
The following letter was read, and "referred to the,
Pilotage Committee
•
Mercantile Marine Asssociation, ' '1
-O, Watet-s#eeti Liverpoollath Decerttl*i; 1859..
COunell 'of the- Mercantile Marine Service Asso,
piationtot.Livorpbol daafihr nottdd !hi:lraq fproceedings oc
the 11tersey Docks and Ifirbour Board that the Pilot Commif
•itet, of the,Peatdis desiroui that eramblers slfaubibirapPointed
for the examination of masters and officers -fok_pilotage ceks:
tittcates, desire me to,ask_that,the.CobnciliMayiberallOwed to
name a nautical gentleman to act as one of such examiners.
11The Council does not desire the Board to pledge itself to
appoint any gentleman named, but it believes that the fact of the
consenting to recei.e- a-recommendation from the Coma,
qilswill afford general satisfaction to therservice,, and confi"
)(lenge bi the examiners. - '
The Council of course wopid name some gentleman not now
in active service. •1- LA 1 _ .

I may mention that --similar communication has been
, addressecltp•thephaipnansof ;)Agrp4t,Conlmittee anti that he
thinks if- mot begtilar that Vote sUbject- should be -brought
before the Board.--4 am, Sir, your very ohedieht-strvant,
Tnoxsoii, Secretary.
11);,:LirrTiCkarLea Turnk.rt,Esq.; Chairman. .
M tslSy Decks and Harbour Efoard, Liverpool. :
•
, . .
to notice
regic,am'venm,
isIi.I6BI44TITION TO DOCK SOLWITOit.
following
adopted .by, the board," viz
11_4That' in: .corisidetation of 'the iirditon..4' ittd 'vefy alit=
ou` the Ist JI
e;idation of
glble services •of the solicitor, a tir.eSeißt be TN* 0 him .
''tilifeFanit:null:FCeldl,:nPtturatuao';t6: ,
of the sum of 42,500 ; and that his salary -be increased
frorn LI,OOO tO;E1,500 per annum, to 'date frOifillie' 24Th '1
June last," Mr. Rankin said thst previous W th.cf year

. f,:ti',i,'"nCEMßEßif Orj.lB 59.

180, the2formerAmlinitor had feet which anicamtedlo
froin £3,900 to .£6,000. a-year ; that from 1846 to
1848, a -period of a 'year and three ' quarters, by
arrangement ;come to with_ him he received a 'Ol5
in lieu of fees, at the rate -of £1,400 a yen'
and that in 1848 Mr. John North was appot"
solicitor, at a salary of £l,OOO- a year. Although kr'
North had served the estate eleven years, his salary had
not been increased. Now for the first five years of ths,
period the duties of that office were not very arduous;
but in 1854, the north end scheme involved an iraraet?
amount of labour to Mr. North, both here and
London. Since then the duck acts had been consolidated,e
..by order of Parliament, and no one could imagine tut
'amount of labour that involved. Mr. North, with that
delicacy which always characterised him; had no
applied for an increase to his salary; but. the Fillotee
Committee thought that that gentleman was not receive
ing what he was entitled to, and therefore made Li.'
recommendation which he now submitted for the c,OO-4;
mation of the board. He need not state what a valutt.
servant Mr. North had been.to the board---(hear, licar)
but gentlemen who had seen Mr. North at work in
London knew to what extent he had Made a slave °f
himself, and to an extent ha& injured his health,
doing se. Some gentlemen thought the amount'
not enough, but the majority of the Finance CoratilitAt'a
were oropinion that their resolution, as it stood, w°,"'„
;be acceptable, and therefore, in mevingits confirmat"Ve
he'inight conclude by observing that _the dock estL
-lad had added to it the great Birkenhead estate and the
warehouse system : so that Mr. North's labour 0
increased very considerably..
Mr.- SHAND having been; at an -earlier period, chair
man of the parliamentary conimittee)_bore. ample testib;
mony to the zeal and devotion, of Mr. North to ti
interests of the estate, and he regretted that the
had been rather late-: in . acknowledging his rat—
te
(Applause.) at
Mr. TOBIN could not allow the motion to pass vrith°
bearing his testinony..to the zeal of Mr:
.North, and te
efficiency of his services,
.having, had, aachairman Of t.t,
Parliamentarfo- Committee,_ 'many opportunities of it,
nessin his exertions. Much, as. he: had seen . of. Pcti
liameaary work in London, he never before met Wit .4
Man who more cotnpletelf devoted himself to the inter'—
,of those he was, connected with, than Mr. North. (At
plause.) . While the board was engaged, with hew
-
parliamentary business, Mr. NOrth, with that model
..which characterised-his every. action, ,Would not all°o
the subject of his remuneration ,to be mooted • but tb
source'of objection having been now removed, and 04
injustice had-.really. been •perpetrated on: Mr. s°"; 0
in allowing him to receive the salary he had done 0,
eleven years, he hoped the board would see the Pr
priety and the justice of at once passing the motion.
„0
The CHAIRMAN said, that in his capacity as cliairu
of the' board, he 'was bound to add his testimony °'
the the valuable services nf Mr. North: During ten
he had.been,in London repeatedly on the Parlianientt'e
bueines4 of the board; and he never knew. any mail
.devoted himself so-entirely:
.recommendation,
. the duties of his office
Mr. -North.; and making this
Finance Committee Was only 'doing a mere act
justicatO the 'solicitor whose- services -to the trust
been most valuable. (Hear, hear.) el
Mr. VANS said, it was -with very great reluetatt„4
that he made any remarks ;: but he believed, that
Mr. North had done-,hisid.uty, the board had done rl'.ee
too: Mr. North Was net compelled to accept 'the oke
at £l,OOO a' year, but: he had done- so; and for,tmo
board to look to the past,' and grant anything for serviAo,
in years gone by, was highly obleetionable. Besi",
Mr. North had not only received' a: salary of £l,OO,
year, but had had ,an office and-clerks found for hide
and was, permitted the privilege of enjoying a pricy
practice. - -
rtb
Mr. ,BUSHELL said if the board had done Mr, ,-°oi
an injustice there was no 'reason-why they shOuld;o
now repair it. He. contended that£l,6oo a-year
just as small a sum -as this board could, in dignitl'es
• justice, confer upon its solicitor ; and, in his life, he fied,
did 'see so much zeal and integrity in a- man so ina
quately acknewledged. It, would be a cruel injustie,e
it
allow such a man to be underpaid for the post, ban iiii
u
would be a disgrace if the- board continued to pal' of
the paltry, insignificant, and insufficient salary alre
paid him.
da—tiMorn.-340fAthee
ivEltwas quite satisfied that-i
Finance Committee, it did fr d
gentlemen_ of such high. standing, must be just,
therefore he should t.e (or it.
The motion was then agreed to, and this being till
eomngthe
a s
whole of the general business the reporters withdrew.