The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-03-03 00:00:00

INDIAN LOANS.

Mr. Otway asked the President of the Board of Control
whether any instructions had been sent to the Governor-
General of India, or whether any communications hai
passed between the home authorities and the Governor-
General of India, with reference to the opening of a new
government loan in India, bearing interest at the rate of
five per cent per annum.
Mr. V. Smith said that from the communications re-
ceived by this morning's mail, he found that the Governor •
General had entered into a new loan of three millions,
limited to 15 years. No communication had been made
between the home and Indian governments relative to this
loan. The loan was made for general purposes, and he
apprehended that included public works.

CHINA ADJOURNED DEBATE.

The adjourned debate on China was resumed by
Dr. Phillimore, who addressed the house at considerable
length on the legal bearing of the question, in the course
of which he argued, that under no statute or international
law, could this lorcha be considered a British ship. Assum.
ing that the lorcha was a British ship, as contended by the
Government, he called OR the house to look at the hideous
difference between the grievance complained of and the
chastisement given. A middle course as open, that of re-
prisals, and that should have been adopted. He considered
that the Chinese gave full satisfaction for what they did,and
that it was not lawful, on any principle of law, justice.
or humanity, to make war a punishment to a nation for the
injury that had been inflicted and the reparation made.
In conclusion, he said that he was led, by the plain dic.
tates of common sense—by the principles of reason—by
the laws of his own country—by the ;international law—
and on the foundation of the eternal principles of justice
written by the finger of God on all men, whether English
or Chinese—to pronounce the war to be unjustifiable in
its origin and unblessed in its continuance. (Hear.) He
elicited loud and long cheers in alluding to the votes of
the Bishops being recorded against Lord Derby's motion,
upon this subject, he remarked that it was against both
the ecclesiastic law and the rules of the upper House, that
a bishop should vote upon a question involving destruction
of life, and:alluded to the fact of their withdrawal from

the House at the trial for murder of the Earl of Cardigan.
Sir G. Grey defended the bishops, attributing the eel'
sure of the learned member to the defeat which the motion
had sustained in the Lords. Proceeding to reply to the
arguments of the supporters of the motion, he charged
Mr. Cobden with dealing unfairly with the House, in par'
tially quoting the letter of Mr. Cooke, the United States.
Marshal to suit his own views. He omitted the part
approving of the proceedings at Canton. He vindicat
the conduct of Sir M. Seymour and Sir John Bowring;
the latter, of whom he contended had been unfairly ha
unjustly attacked by Sir James Graham, to whom he owe('
the confirmation of his appointment as Consul at Bellg
Kong, which was originally made by one ot the supporters
of the motion—Lord John Russell. [These observations
were received with much cheering.]
Mr. Robertson remarked upon the discourtesy of the
Chinese towards foreigners, and cruelty amongst thenr
selves, and stated his intention of opposing the resolution.
He mentioned a number of instances of Chinese cruelty
which he had witnessed during a stay in China, an°
said as the only merchant in that house who had visits
('
the Celestial Empire, he believed personal communicatiel
with the authorities at Canton necessary, and expressed
a hope that the house would not be so ill-advised as to
pass a vote of censure upon the Government, the result o
which, when it became known in China, would be fearflll
to contemplate.
Sir John Pakington regretted that the GavernMen"
rather than recall Sir J. Bowring and Mr. Parkes, ha'
taken the responsibility upon themselves. He knew of 11°
principle so dangerous to the interests of this country
than the acts ot distant officials, however wrong,
should be confirmed by the Government. T,11,,f).
question to consider was, what would be
effect on Europe of the sanctioning of the conduct
of the British authorities at Canton. He thought it cool;
not but be injurious to the honour of this country. a
Chinese were provoked to the cruelties which they e"„
perpetrated, and the heavy retribution that had take"
place was unjustifiable, and called for their reprobation.i
Mr. Collier vindicated the government, and repot"
the arguments of the opposers of the motion, in jastifice
tion of the vote which he felt it his duty to give.
Sir F. Thesiger replied at some length to points of II
touched upon in the speech of the Attorney Genera,
urging that the supplementary treaty referred
_..t°
British ships in the strict sense of the words
He alluded in detail, and answered the case brought
forward by Sir R. Bethell, and from a consideration 'A
the whole case contended that Sir John Bowring 10,r
without reason, assumed that the attack on the torch
was a premeditated insult to the British flag. He thought
the retribution more than was required, if we had e„
justice on our side, and gave his vote for the motion, to
express his horror at what had occurred.
Sir W. F. Williams had served for twenty-six...lraqi,
amongst Orientals, and was a witness of the aiffictatiZe
dealing with them without force. He voted against the
motion before the House, because he believed that al:
insult to the British flag was premeditated, and that
vote disapproving of the condcct of the British authorities
would have the most disastrous effects in the East. ,
Mr. S. Herbert very humorously summed up his opiel%
in one sentence, to the effect that he agreed with Sir Jeu
Bowring that the lorcha Arrow was not a British vessel'
He agreed with Mr. Kennedy, that he was only the unTi,l/11
master of the lorcha, and that she was owned by a Chin'''.
He agreed with Mr. Brook, of the Board of Trade, that the
ordinance was illegal. He agreed with Mr. Bridges,
Attorney-General at Hone Kong, that the British sub]ee"
were not British subjects at all. He agreed with gr'
Parke, that the retribution was more than the oce3si:l
required; and he agreed withher Majesty's Attorney-Genct
in the opinion that the law arguments upon the Buhl
of the ordinance brought forward by the Lord Advoc3t:
the Home Secretary, and the Lord Chancellor were Pftb
feed?, immaterial. He charged Sir J. Bowring °ld
deceiving Sir M. Seymour, by quoting only a portion
as
his instructions, and that therefore Sir J. Bowring
alone responsible. The question which led to the W_,7
might have been settled by reprisals, and it was c0nc1e.",.,.
ing the cruelty of shelling a town that be gave his vote
the resolution.

Mr. Sergeant Shee opposed the resolution.
Mr. J. G. Phillimore then moved the adjournment of tile
debate.
The motion was agreed to without a division, and the
debate was accordingly adjourned until to morrow. the
Mr. Disraeli having expressed a hope that upon Pa
occasion a division would be taken,
The other business was disposed of, and the b°ll
ye
adjourned shortly after twelve o'clock.

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