The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-05-29 00:00:00

JOINT STOCK BANKS.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer," in answer to Mr.
Headlam, stated that it was the intention of the Govern-
ment to introduce a bill in the cinirse of the session, for
the regulation of the construction of joint stock banks.

FISHING FIARBJURS.
In replylto Lord John Hay,
Mr. Wilson said if he moved for a committee of inquiry
on the subject of fishing harbours, it would be a general
inquiry, applying to the entire kingdom. It was his
intention, soon after Whitsuntide, to move for the appoint-
ment of such a committee, but he feared that the state of
public business would prevent it being brought to any
successful termination.

THE NEUFCHATEL DIFFICULTY.
Mr. Kinnaird asked whether the government had
received any information of the ratification of the treaty
between Prussia and the Swiss, respecting Neufchatel.
Lord Palmerston was happy to be able to state to his
hon. friend and the house that the treaty had been
accepted by both parties, and was signed a few days ago.
the question might now be considered as satisfactorily
settled. (Hear, hear.)

RELATIONS WITH BRAZIL.

Mr. Roebuok drew the attention of the house to the
subjectof our relations with Brazil, and moved for a
select committee to take into consideration those rela-

tions, and to report thereupon. He alluded to the Act of
1845, and stated that 'our cruisers went into the waters of
Brazil, and if they found blacks en board a Brazilian
vessel, she was at once sold as a slaver, under the
authority of a court composed entirely of Englishmen.
He condemned the desire there was to ally this country
with slave-holding America, while relations with Brazil
were withheld, and reiterated the declaration that England
bullied the weak and aided the strong ; and Brazil would
supply sugar and cotton, and render us independent of
America, and he urged the house to grant him a com-
mittee of inquiry, which could do no harm.
Lord Palmerston denied the allegations of the member
for Sheffield to the prejudice of the country, and•declared
that in great. struggles England had generally stood alone.
It was not the fact that English cruisers entered the
waters of Brazil, the permission to do so having become a
dead letter; and the hon. member should have obtained
more impartial information before making such charges.
The slave trade was a great crime, and while Portugal
had consented to renew the treaty for itsi suppression,
Brazil had refused to do so, and the trade was carried on
to the extent of from 60,00(., to 70,000 in one year. That
number had been imported into the country, but nearly the
same number died on the road to Brazil, both by sea and
land. In 1845, the Brazilian Government refused
altogether to take any steps to put a stop to the slave
trade, and they were told that the provisions of the
act would be put in force. • The British Minister
at Brazil threatened to put 'the act lin force in 1850,
the trade being unchecked, but on an assurance from
Brazil of a wish to abolish the traffic in slaves, the act' was
suspended. He hoped the motion would not be pressed,
as its effect would be to give rise to the belief amongst

slave traders, that England was going to pursue a policy
the reverse of that which had so honourably distinguished
her since the year 1816.
Mr. Disraeli considered the motion too strong under
the circumstances, and could not, therefore give it his
support. The case was founded upon the pressure of an
act of Parliament, which they were told was at that
moment a dead letter, and he hoped that the renewal of
negociations which must follow, would lead the question
to a satisfactory conclusion. For twenty years under the
noble lord's guidance, they had been endeavouring to put
an end to the slave trade, but had been unsuccessful, still
the people of Brazil'say' that the movement would tend to
their benefit. Under the cirumstances, he submitted to
the consideration of the Premier, that that country should
be treated with the greatest courtesy and consideration.
Lord John Russell denied that the suppression of the
slave trade of Brazil was owing to the people of Brazil,
but stated that the act was passed in consequence of the
trade having failed, through the vigilance of British
cruisers. He epposed the motion moved by Mr. Roebuck.
The house divided. The numbers were—
For the motion
Against

. 17
312,

Sir James Graham : Then am I to understand that, on
:he part of the Corporation of Liverpool, there is no
objection to-a removal of the order ?
Mr. Hope Scott replied in the affirmative, and the
question. dropped.
Mr. Heron's examination in chief was then resumed.
He stated that when the Dock Act of 1851 was obtained,
the Deck debt amounted to £4,638,402. By this act the
chairman of the Dock Committee was appointed by the
committee, but only a member of the Corporation was
eligible. By previous act the chairman was appointed by
the Corporation. Mr. Heron then proceeded to read
evidence given by Mr. W. Brown in 1851, respecting the
management of the Dock affairs by the Corporation.
Mr. Hope Scott objected to this as evidence, and
Sir James Graham held that at best it was but the
opinion of an individual, and wai, therefore, valueless to
the inquiry.
Mr. Heron passed to the Dock Act of 1855, several
clauses in which he read in extenso, the principal
being the one authorising the purchase of the Bir-
kenhead Dock property. There was considerable dis-
cussion as to the parties who should be the purchasers
of the property. It was stated distinctly as a
reason why the Corporation of Liverpool proposed
to become the purchasers was, that the dock trustees were
not in a position to give satisfactory security for the pur-
chase money. It was stated that the Birkenhead bond-
holders would not take the security of the Liveroool Dock
Trustees, and that was the ground on which the corporation
interfered. [Mr. Heron stated, at some length, the
circumstances attending the agreement between Birken-
head and Liverpool in 1855, and tile fact that, as a conse-
quence of this amalgamation, Manchester was refused a
/ocusstandi in Parliament in that year in respect of the
affairs of the Mersey.] By this arrangement the corpora-
tion were to apply in the following year to parliament for full
powers to construct new docks, and to alter the system of
management, and they were to commence them by the lst
of September, 1856, and complete them by the same date in
1858. In 1856 the corporation accordingly brought in a
bill, but they took no notice of the provisions relative to
the management of the Liverpool docks, as stipulated, but
sought only to alter Mr. Rendel's plan of the Birkenhead
docks. Atter the examination of Mr. Rendel, the com-
mittee rejected the bill. In the present session the
corporation introduced two bills, which were now in
charge of the committee, but in the notices
given
Sir James Graham : We shall have this matter before us
in the proper time.
Mr. Heron : I merely wished to state my explanations
of the course taken by the promoters of the Mersey Conner-
' vancy Bill, now under consideration. Looking to the
coarse taken in 1856, and. imagining that the same
course would be taken in 1857, those really interested
• iti carrying out the recommendations and require-
- Majority against
The result was received with much laughter. give notice that would bring the whole matter under the
THE BOARD OF ADMIRALTY. consideration of the committee, and notices for the present
Sir Charles, Napier moved for a select committee hin
--=" were 1400ordingiy given in November last, Tbe apti-

cipations of the parties were realized. The notices given
by the Corporation of Liverpool proposed no legislation
in reference to the Liverpool Docks, and the bill now
before the committee was therefore deposited at the
instance of the Railway Companies and the Commercial

Association of Manchester. Ir. Heron's evidence was
next directed to the power of veto exercised by the Cor•

poration over the pi ceedings of the Dock Committee ;
but it was confined almost solely to the reading of extracts
from the evidence given before the select committee of last

year on the subkCi.
Wi[ness,was next examined in reference to the Town
Dues: The present dock debt was upwards of £6,000,000
sterling, irrespective of the Birkenhead docks, which were
£1,200,000, besides a power to borrow £500,000. A sum

of £1,400,000 more would be required to complete the

. . .
docks. w The interest on this, at 5 per cent , oul I be
£450,000, and estimating the working expenses at leis
than one-third, say £130,000, the charge on shipping
would be .£550,000 a-year, without making any provision
for a sinking fund. Added to this sum .e 150,000 for
Town Dues, the gross civirge on shipping at Liverpool

amounted to upwards of £7OOO. -
Cross-examined by Mr, Merewether : I am the town
clerk of Manchester, and am not by business or otherwise

connected with Liverpool. My knowledge of the vario7s
acts of Parliament prior to 1855, is not greater, I should
say, than that of any intelligent man reading those acts.
Neither as promoter nor opponent had I anything to do
with these acts, except in regard to the act of 1841, when
I attended the committee, and caused the insertion of a

dame, and was not conwrned in committee in the bili
brought in by the Chamber of Commerce of Manchester in
1851, but I was present during the proceedings of the bill

of 1855. On the preamble of that bill I desired to examine
a witness, in order to ascertain if Manchester had a locus
standi, but the committee decided that it had not. I
subsequently claimed.to be heard on the part of Manches-
ttr against certain clauses relative to the town dues, when
the committee again decided that the Manchester Corpora-
tion had no locus standi. In the bill of 1855 no reference
was made to the purchase of the Birkenhead docks

originally, but the arrangement for the parchase was
male in consequence of the intimation of the committee to
counsel. Tha promoters of the bill now before the com-
mittee are the railway companies and the CoMmercial
Associations of Manchester. The railway companies came
to me, as the town clerk of Manchester, knowing that we
had taken an interest in relieving commerce from unite-

cessary pressure. The chairman Of the Cheshire Junction
Railway (Mr. Atkinson) came to me, and said he despaired
of the Liverpool Corporation doing .anythfog. I said the
only chance of a satisfactory arrangement would be to give
notio, to parliament, with a view of carrying out the re-
commendatiOn of the committee of 1855. I communicated
with the Great• Western Railway Company, and the notices

were given. I ordered the preparation'of the notices. This
was in October, and the notices were given in November.
By the CAlservaticy Bill I do not raise any question of

Mr. Merewether: Then you who arl moving frr the

appropriation are satisfied to take it with the- tit!e, to
accept the title in fact ?
Mr. Heron : lam anximus to bare the Town Dues ap-
propriated to the purposes of shipping, the same as the
Dock Dues.

Mr. Merewether : Then you would keep alive the
Town Dues ?

Mr. Heron: Without any question as to the legality of
.he dues, the bill provides for their transfer to a new
,rust.

Mr. I.,lerewether : Then you accept the title and raise no
question as to its legality ?
Mr. Heron: I accept the title and want a proper
appropriation.
Mr. Merewether : Then if you said at any time, " I
believe their hill is as rotten as need be," you would have
said what you do not now think ?
Mr. Heron : What are you quoting from there is
a speech delivered by the Town-clerk of Manchester, and
I have no hesitation in sa3ing, that to every statement in
it I adhere ; "I believe the bill is as rotten as need be."
Cross-examination continued : The cost of this bill is
provided for in the bill ; in the ev,:nt of the fatal contin-
gency of failure, I know of no arrargement for payment ;
all I know is that I don't pay. I don't know who pays
the preliminary expenses; I have never considered to
whom I should apply in case I wanted money to carry on
proceedings. (Laughter). I have no doubt that the
Railway Companies, and the other parties interested
would make satisfactory arrangements for payments.
I have no doubt that if the railway companies could have
come to a satisfactory arrangement for their interests they
would not have sought to interfere with the management
of the docks : for their interest is also the interest of the
public. I think.the Chamber of Commerce and the Com-
mercial Association of Manchester have no rival interests
in respect of Liverpool, but I think Liverpool is equally
interested as Manchester in the development of commerce.
All the papers and documents referring to this matter were
laid before the counsel who prepared the bill, and I
attended to give information, but I am not responsible for
the statements contained in the preamble; to any extent I
could give information I gave it, but I did not confer with
any parties but the parliamentary agent, Mr. Wyate, aed
the counsel: I had no discussion with the solicitors of the
bill (the Messrs. Hunt) previous to the preparation of the
bill ; there must have been other parties instructing the
counsel, for I knew nothing of the reference in the pream-
ble to a lease of the South Reserve to the Great Western
Company. [Counsel read other statements in the preamble
of which Mr. HerOn declared his total ignorance.] I have
no particular pains to ascertain the correctness of the pre-
amble ; I heard Mr Sergeant Wrangham state in his open-
ing"that the interests of commerce have suffered by the
existing state of things ; I don't know what rate of interest
has been paid by the Liverpool Dock Trust for their loans;
I don't think that a private company would have
been satisfied with a remunerative dividend of
£4 8s ; the low rate of interest has lessened,
doubtless, the charges on commerce ; I have not
inquired what are the conditions under other dock
trusts. I know nothing of Hull, or whether there is
a public or private trust. I think the opening statement
of Mr. Sergeant Wrangham, in respect of injeries to eon_
merce, has been borne out. My opinion is, that it would
be for the interest of commerce to alter the mode of man.
agement, and to complete the Birkenhead Docks speediiy.
I don't exactly understand you when you ask if I give this
opinion commercially ; but I think, for instance, if the
moneys levied on shipping were applied solely to shipping
purposes, the dues on goods would be lessened.
Mr. Merewether : And this notwithstanding the baneful
influence?

THE BUIKENHEAD GAS AND
WATER BILL

(FROM OUR OWN' REPORTER.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS, THURSDAY.

The Select Committee appointed to inquire into this bill,
resumed its sittings this morning. The members preset. t
were Mr. Packe, chairman, Mr. Dillw,yn, Mr. Garnett,
Mr. Seater, and Mr. Montgomery.
Before proceeding with the evidence, the Chairman
directed the room to be cleared, and after the committee
had been engaged in a deliberation which occupied three
quarters of an hour, the parties were t e-admitted.

The Chairman said, he was anxious to make a statement
to counsel with regard Ofutwe procee Hags It would be
a great convenience to the committee to adjourn after
to-day for the Whitsuntide holidays, but they were anxious
to meet the wishes of the parties interested in the bill as
far as possible. If they could have an assurance from
counsel that the case on both sides would be completed
to-morrow, they would sit to-morrow, though at great per-
sonal inconvenience, because it had been said that if the bill
was not disposed of to-morrow, it would not have the
slightest chance of passing both H 011393 of Parliament this
session. The committee, however, had not Set heard the
case of the promoters, and from what had already trans-
pired there was likely to bo considerable opp)sition.
Unless they received an assuarauce that the case on both
sides would be concluded to-morrow, no object would be
gained by meeting to-morrow, and the committee in that
case would adjourn from to-day till Thursday next.
Mr. Dyson, Parliamentary Agent, said he represented
the Birkenhead, Lancashire, and Cheshire Junction
Railway Company, who ha I petitioned against the bill,
but he was happy to inf rat the committee that the opp:-
sition of that company was now with !rawn.
Mr. Calvert, Q.C., stated that if the committee all—wed
the ca,e to go on for two o- three hours he should be in a
better position to state whether it was possible to conclude
the case to-morrow.

Mr. H. Jackson said the promo:Drs.:did not intend to
call any further evidence.

Mr. W. Jackson, M P., was then re3alled, and his cross-
examination proceeded with. He said he was nimble to
state the precise sum which the construction of the works
had cost, as he had not brought an account of the cost
with him.

Mr. Heron : Yrs. I have made no inquiries al to the
relative dock dues of Liverpool and London, Then; are
a great number of rates raised at Manchester. I can only
state the amount of rates levied in Liverpool by reference
to the evidence of Mr. Shuttleworth ; but there is-no
borough rate there. I cannot state accurately the amount
of rate raised in Manchester. I should think the aggregate
is about £300,00 a year.
Bir James Graham : Of course that is exclusive of poor
rate.

Mr. Heron : Yes, exclusive of poor rate. I shall give
details to-morrow. I gave the opinion the other day
that there was inadequate conservancy in Liverpool. I
am aware of the complaints on the subject. As there is

no power to spend money on the conservancy of the river, there
can be no efficient conservancy. Land owners on the
Cheshir3 side complain of loss of land, and there are
complaints that the land so washed away form sand banks
in the river and impede the navigation. I think the Cor-
poration should have taken measures to protect the fron-
tages of the river on the Cheshire side. As to whether
the Corporation ought to have built a wall, I certainly
think they ought to have done so ; or contributed very
largely to the cost of doing so. The owners of the land,,
the lrontagers would decidedly have benefited by the
building, and they might have been called upon to con-
tribute. I have no doubt there is an injury to the navi-
gation from the constant washing away of the Cheshire
shore.

BIRKENHEAD ELECTION OF COMMISSIONERS.

Mr. Merewether referred to a report by Mr. Walker,
stating that the clay discoloured the water while in solu-
tion, but he did not think anSf the soil washed down,
remained so as to obstruct the navigation.
Mr. Heron z I would set my opinion against - Mr.
Walker's generally, but I found my opinion on facts. Mr.
Evans, a competent authority pronounces otherwise. I
state my opinion again, that the conservancy is
inadequate.
The committee at four o'clock adjourned to twelve
o'clock on Friday.

TO THE EDITOR Or THE NORTIIERN

---~---

--~_-.

BIRKENHEAD MODEL YACHT CLUB.—RACE Or SATURDAY
NEXT, Id aY 30.—This will be the best opportnnity ever
offered to view a sailing match on the Mersey, and the
race is expected to be one of the best ever witnessed, there
being eight yachts entered, and no less than five of them
new. The starting point is north of Woodside Ferry
promenade, which they will pass at starting, and return
to as the winning point. A steamer will leave Woodside
Ferry at half-part one p.m., to start and attend the race
for ls. 6d each. Refreshments can be had on board.
Cabin set apart for ladies. This will give parties a good
opportunity of viewing the river, and the scenery about
Eastham, Garston, So. ; and those who do not feel
inclined for a sail will have time between the starting and
returning of the yachts to enjoy a walk through the Bir-
kenhead Park, the flowers and scenery being well worth
seeing. A number of the Royal Mersey Yacht Club's
yachts will be dressed with flags at anchor near the
Woodoide Ferry.

Re-examined by Mr. Monk : The sum which I stated
eesterday, namely, from £15,000 to £20,000, is the sum
which I expended on the works as nearly as I can
calculate.
The examination of Mr. Jackson c neluded the case on
behalf of the promoters.
Mr. Calvert, Q.C., then addressed the committee in
opposition. He said the promoters of the bill sought, at
the hand, of the committee, po seers to extend their works
and to increase their capital. They proposed to
double their present capital, which now stood
at £133,000, and to obtain- other powers milich
would enable them to increase their capital to
£234,000, malthig an addition of about £87,000. In order
to ease the minds of the committee and of the promoters,
he would state at once that he did not think the case was
one which required any answer from him in the shape of
witnesses. He intended simply to address the committee upon
the evidence given on behalf of the promoters, and not to
enter into any evidence whatever on the part of the oppo-
nents. It appeared that Mr, Jackson and his brother sub-
stantially owned two-thirds of the concern, and that Mr.
Jackson himself possessed such interest in it that he was
in a position to influence 1,000 votes. He reminded the
committee that in dealing with questions of this kind, it
was necessary to ascertain the character cf the persons to
whom it was proposed to entrust such important powers.
It appeared that Mr. Jackson wag a man of business
habits, and was well acquainted with mercantile affairs,
and gentlemen in his position must be regarded as being
perfectly and distinctly cognizant of the whole of the trans-
actions of the company, and responsible for everything
that was done. In this case, to the charge of Mr. jaekson
and his brother must be laid all the irregularities which
bad been committed, and he thought it was a matter for
serious consideration whether the preamble of the bill
ought not to fail on ihe simple ground that no provision
was contained in it to give the inhabitants of Birken-
head a power to watch transactions of the company
for the benefit of the town. The statements contained in
the act of 1847 appeared to be untrue from beginning to
end. Oat of the eight persons whose names appeared in
the bill, only two appeared to have had the
slightest interest in the concern, the interest
of the other six being entirely fictitious.
According to the rules of parliament, it was necessary to
have produced before the committee of 1847 a certificate
that one half of the capital had been paid up ; yet, in this
case, it appeared that Mr. Jackson had treated the order
of parliament with entire contempt, the money having
passed merely as a matter of form. The committee must
bear in mind that the case before them was not a transac-
tion between Mr. Jackson and his brother, bat that it was
a transaction affecting the interests of the town of Birken-
head, inasmuch as there was a 10 per cent clause in respect
to the aggregate capital, and if the company established
too high a rate of capital in respect to their works, there
was a manifest injustice done tr the inhabitants. Mr.
Jackson said the expenses actually incurred in con-
structing the works had amounted to £15,000 or
£20,000, but in so important a question it was Mr.
Jackson's duty to have come prepared to state the exact
sum which had been expended on the works. The learned
counsel then proceeded to argue that the conduct of the
promoters of the bill had been most disgraceful throughout
the whole history of the company, and that the committee
ought to mark their disapprobation of the manner in which
the orders of Parliament had been trampled upon and set
at defiance. Mr. Jackson appeared to look upon the
standing orders of Parliament as a mere matter of form,
but it was a matter of the very highest importance that
Parliament should know, in a case of this nature, who were
the shareholders and directors whom the town was to
trust. The company's bill of 1847, from first
to last, was false, and whenever a legislature dis-
covered that such a trick had been palmed upon
them, as in this inrtance, it was necersary that it
should take some steps to stop such transactions, and to
warn companies that if they did not come before parlia-
ment with ciean hands they must be treated accordingly.
The whole case was replete with imposition. The standing
orders of parliament had been openly set at defiance ; the
list of shareholders was fictitious; the names of the direc-
tors were fictitious ; and an imposition had, been practised
in obtaining a certificate that the capital was paid up ; and
upon these grounds he asked the committee to declare the
preamble of the bill not proved., He contended that instead
of having established a claim for assistance, the company
had established a case which the committee ought to visit
with the strongest disapprobation.
The committee-room was then cleared, and after the
committee had deliberated for about a quarter of an hour,
the parties were re-admitted, when
The Chairman sael : I have to declare the opinion of
the committee that the preamble is not proved. .
The bill, so far as the clauses relating to a supply of
gas and water are concerned, is consequently lost, bat two
clauses are retained, which empower the old company to
sell a certain portioa di land now in their possession, the
power of sale under the existing act having expired.
The committee then rose shortly before three o'clock.

you allow me, through your next impression,
to inform the ratepayers of Birkenhead and Claugh'on,
that I had no knowledge of the intentions of the Blue Lis!
Commit'ee in putting my name forward as a candidate for
their suffrages at the ensuing election, nor siould /have
sanctioned it if I had (as I believe is usual. in such cases)
been previously consulted, my name, at my request, has
been withdrawn, and although it wos brought forward, as
I am assured, in all goad faith, I cannot refrain from
expressing a hope, that gentlemen who. frame lists for
elections wig ponder before bringing a young man in
business so conspicuously before the public.—l am, sir,
your obedient servant, B. WILLIANIS, Jun.

ABSTINENCE MOVEMENT.—Last night, the usual weekly
meeting of the North End Birkenhead Total Abstinence
Society was held in the Argyle-street school-room--- Mr.
Dobson in the chair. After a few remarks from the
chairman, Mr. Horne, from Liverpool, delivered a very
appropriate address, in the course of which he made
allusion to the recent murder in Liverpool, as an
instance of what drink led to. The remaining proceedings
were of a routine character. We may here add that this
branch society is increasing very much in numbers
THu COMING ELECTIONS.—Daring this week, and in the
almost entire absence of stirring local intelligence, the
coming &ection of Commissioners of Birkenhead has been
a fertile subject for the gossips. After an amoant of ma-
noeuvring, the " blue Liu" party, as they have boon termed,
issued their "bill of fare," and now the sport may be fairly
said to have been begun. Both• the committees met last
night in their various head quarters, and concocted the
tactics which they would follow
.jn the,' election. The
important news received by telegraph in the afternoon of
yesterday, respecting the defeat of the Gas and Water
Bill, seemed to have elevated the Red List over that of the
Blue List Committee; and, so far as can be judged, the
former party are evidently a-heal. A meeting of the
Blue List party takes place to-night, in the Castle Hotel.
We shall see the result.