The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-04-15 00:00:00

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tienel.ber, expressly declared that they objected to their
)101114 °jug made pabl and it was felt as to all that. it
not only be improper as regarded the persons
the offers, but impolitic,.with reference to the
'clatims of the board for land, to make public those
erth2iations and the offers upon which they were based.
lid titers the reporters were requested to withdr
aw,
ofla,e same grounds it would now be impror in. the
to enter into the particulars of the different pieces
pd Which have come under their consideration in the
tto„,r•ess of their enquiries pending the continuance of those
4
to board have confident hopes of being enab'ed shortly
14111'41h to the general vestry a proposal for a purchase
kept Will adequately meet the great and increasing require-
teit Qf the community, and they are the more impressed
~tbe urgency of their duty in this respect in consequence
41aeliloeures which have recently been made.
Nthenip
umg the above enquiries a question has been started
nlost vital importance, arising out of the anomalous
(kiacter of the local act of 5 and 6 Victoria, Acs)88
',)tis.ll„3lllY called the Liverpool Select Vestry
N•t4ll,ting the body which is by the act stated to be a
lite, ~,,°' guardians for the relief of the poor, but to which
ef the Liverpool Select Vestry is given. This
ia;),,aBte well known, was not intended to supersede, and
k4„,,:i't. in fact, supersede, the general vestry. in any of its
tiere'!°4ll as to the government of the parish,
.but. only
the fhllev, under the control of the Poor Law Commissioners,
stdin"setions which in other parishes are exercised the
if tki!ill boards of guardians. Neverthdlees, from the fact
eattss,, body being called by act of parliament a Select
ktelp a doubt, has been raised whether the word " vestry"
itiain° the Burial Act to designate the body whose function
ties' sleet the burial board, must not be taken to mean
to,„elect Vestry. As this ambiguity vitally affects the
,too: tif the General Vestry to elect the burial board, that
,4`lst; after taking the opinion of their clerk, which was in
'iee,il the power of the General Vestry, rather than +Alp
erett- vestry, to elect the board, determined to ofq.y to the
;iTcarY of State for the Home Department, tlider whose
's'th:l°se the conduct of burial boards is t,,iated, by the aet,
451118 aivice and assistance. His ans.ver to this applies-
Was in the following terms ;
" Whit:alai', 29th December, 1856.
sir am directed by Secretary Sir George Grey to
°Filedge the receii,t of your letter of the 26th instant,
111 °t ledge
enclosure (h.erewith returned), icquiring as to the
- 40133intment of the Liverpool burial board under the
•itltilt,lt4ricas stated in your letter, and I am to inform you
tiq~tit burial briard hoald take the opinion of counsel
ilite'eQe case„ It is not one upon which tha Secretary of
an ai'vise.—l am, sir, your obedient servant,
t
WADDINUTON.
-° hlr E liarvev, Clerk to the Burial
sa Board, Liverpool."
,A,tarsuance of the advice of Sir George Grey, con-
Irri: „°7 the above letter, the board took the opinion of
that %Icy, Q.C., which confirmed the view of the clerk
at titihe board was legally constituted by the general vestry.
same time, he was advised that in a matter of such
ka„tullortance, involving the expenditure of large sums of
0,51,,!. in the purchase of land for a cemetery, it was not
tt °r prudent for the members of the board to incur any
tsti s. expense until the point had been set at rest by the
40d ,c`ttative decision of a court of law. A copy of this opinion,
‘)the tits case upon which it was founded, were communicated
11°01e Secretary, accompanied by the following letter :
" Liverpool, 19th January, 1857.
am directed by the burial board for the parish of
in the county of Lancaster, to submit to you the
they have caused to be laid before counsel, in con-_
2nee of your advice to them contained in your le:ter oft,fa9 ;II of December last, together with the opinion of
in favour of the validity of the board's appointment,
ICe ","t it would be proper and prudent in the board to obtain
kopithoritative opinion of the Court of Queen's Bench, by
ttitiiing for a mandamus to compel obedience to some require.
4. ',I the board.
flitthl vile board now request the favour of your advice what
iart,„e' step they should take ; and if an application for a man_
• tk,e's be the step advised, whether that step can be adopted
t 0,1,141. ;It the expense and risk of the individuals composing the
let ----I have the honour to be, sir, your obedient bumble
".' E. HARVEY.
kiel:o the Right Hon. Sir George Grey. Bart.. H.M.
CiPsi Secretary of State for the Home Department.'
The fallowing answer to the above letter was received :
ii, Whitehall, 27th January. 1857.
to am directed by the Secretary Sir George Grey
bta,„"4lloveledge the receipt of your letter of the 19th inst.,
eril,ng a copy of the case submitted to counsel by the
'3l Dotrd of Liverpool, and of the opinion thereon in favor
fe.,„e validity of the board's appointment, and with refe-
le „'ee to the request of the board for further advice, I am
l'itoeNtimend that they should again consult their counsel,
tbts Would have answered their present inquiry had the
4e: t
Panion been submitted to him.-1 am, s'r, your obedient
t
,
" H. Warn:its:GT.ox.
°I, to the Burial Board, Liverpo?l.
le board replied to this letter in the following terms :
.; "`Liverpool, 7th February, 1857.
teceee:Cir's—l am directed by the Liverpool burial board
Jolli,""ullY to express their disappointment at the tenor of
t•iallswer to eir as advice.
14.4,4 The .t,
eardth conceive thatking in a case where the difficulty
they `fl', ely from the defective way in which the act is penned
kid it entitled to the ready assistance of the Government
tilt '4
laW advisers. which of course, can only be obtained
tilt:ll3 the medium of the, Home Office, under whose control
It °tall is placed by the act itself.
N:testead of that, all assistance is curtly refused, and they
totin"l4 that they might have asked the question from •their
trout"l in the previous case, though the question
is not
'lle,t4 opinion in answer to that case, and, besides, not a
1,,,,'°11 of law at all, but amounts simply to an enquiry
‘itt,.s"te" they are to look for help from the Home Office
ht:Tbe board see plainly enough that if th'e Queen's Bench
their different construction on the act from that advised by
14)4 eg,Nlttsel, Mr. Pashley, the cost of obtaining a construe-
cls,„°,' the act would fall on them as individuals, though the
tt:-441 is one of public importance.-1 have the honour to
rt Your obedient humble servant,
" 'B. HARVEY, Clerk to the Board.
1,.„` To the Right Honourable Sir George Grey, Bart.' "
I'3 this letter the following answer was returned :-
4,, " Whitehall, February 11, 1857.
am directed by Secretary Sir George Grey to
th4°Wledge the receipt of your letter of the 7th instant, and to
ts,ll.riess his regret that there are no fluids at his disposal which
be made available for the payment of the expenses of art
iNtion to the Court of Queen's Bench by the Liverpool
44'1 hoard in the event of the decision of the court proving
elle, to the board.—l am, sir, your obedient servant,
" 'H. WADDINGTON.
,tr. E, Harvey, Clerk to the Burial Board, Liverpool.''
tc ,

board have now to report that an authoritative decision
t/C.' train for being obtained, since they have had notice of
:li
lyiltended application to the Court of Queen's Bench for a
kk the nature of a quo warrant°, which will be made in
tiltliter term next, and wb:eh will raise the question in a
„Mete and inexpensive manner.
tt When the decision is obtained the board will, in the event
eptosls confirming the legal opinions they have obtained, be
d to proceed with their duties with security against the
.Thility of future complications.
The board have just received a communication from' Messrs
tpt~
'e
and Hull, in behalf of the persons interested in graves
tkil Necropolis, to the effect that the proprietors had been
liqt!l upon to put the Necropolis under the control of the
litl4l board, and that the proprietors, through their solicitors,
0:45. [Ace, Marshall, Roscoe, and Gill, Ind agreed so to

st ti,t his proposal will have the immediate and earnest attention
its burial hoard "
tc`t• Robertson Gladstone. chairman of the board, said
of tiaUrial Board had thought it proper, in consequence
tphi.'s amount of public interest which exis'ed upon the
to t 3 et, to prepare the report which had just been read
Seepleers t meeting. That report contained a full and detailed
of l'aut of all the proceedings of the board since the time
Siit,B appointment. It was not necessary for the board,
the present occasion, to submit their report, and he
st 14hiaformed that it would be an illegal act noon the part
ilh.t"s Vestry to undertake to confirm it. But be took
to I,aPportunity of giving an assurance to the vestry, and
ose who were deeply interested in the necessary
kahi'llons of a burial groan,' for the parish, that that
trii,det would continue to have, as it already had, their
Li)llt Serious and careful attention. (Hear, hear.) He
t4eved he might add that he had personal reason to
Ivh"„*. from having come into contact with various parties
ip aliwere disposed to sell their land for the purpose, that
human probability a very satisfactory arrangement
it) :0 be made, and that the price demanded for the land
14. ll arious localities was one which he thought most of
;i would deem reasonable and proper. (Hear, hear )
t• Carne asked whether he was at liberty to make any
Tarks upon the subject of the Burial Board.
h
th, he Chairman said the subject was not regularly before
to af:strY' but he did not think there was any objection
tea 4:• Carne speaking upon the report which had been
Carne then proceeded to arraign in vehement terms the
(leti:ler in which the Burial Board had been constituted. He
1:14e-'ed that it was illegally and unfairly elected by a course
1155:1 Pursued in that parish before. Instead of adopting the
o r legal course of giving every voter in the parish an
tunity of recoi ding his vote, a poll was taken immed ately
to the discussion of the proposal', and the doors were closed,
Pres,,ant no one should vote but those who had been previously
topert• He asked whether the town would submit to the
fo4lunaent of a clique. He stated that when he upon a
}:104 'dr occasion made a proposal for the constitution of a Burial
burMr Jeffery opposed the motion, on the ground that the
%I ground at Walton was sufficiently adapted for all the

purposes. At that time he (Mr Came) proposed, along with
his colleague, that the board should consist of an equal number
of Churchmen and Dissenters, for he desired that each
body should be fairly represented. But the present board
consisted of six dissenters to three churchmen, and only one
out of the whole, his friend Mr. Shaw, was not a tAtral in
politics. He thought it a singnlar thing 'that tr efttlanen who
talked most of liberalism shonld do things in such an illiberal
manner. .13e expressed his "Conviction that the town would not
submit to have thtit liberties taken from them as these gentle.
men had done, and said he would move, if it were open to
him, that the report be not received, on the ground that the
board bad been illegally constituted, decla'ring that he was
ready to poll the town upon the question. (Cheers.)
Mr. Robertson Gladstone It has not been moved that it
should be received. (Hear, hear, and laughter.)
Mr J. R. Yeffery then proceeded to reply to Mr. Carne,
and received that gentleman's continuous tied most
unseemly interruption. He maintained that Mr. Carne's
spleen on this subject *as caosed .6y disappointment, and
that it was quite open to Mr Came, or any other gentleman,
if he chose, to dispute the election of the board. With such
a man as Mr Robertson Gladstone as its chairman, the
language which Mr. Carne applied t s the proceedings of the
board and its constitution, he (Mr Jeffery) hoped would be
received by the meeting with the contempt it merited.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr Thoruley reminded Mr Carne that seven out of the nine
gentlemen who constitute the Burial Board were unanimously
elected, and that it was therefore to be supposed that Mr
Carne, who was present at the time, had nothing to urge
against them. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. Bremner denied that the board was legally constitute.;!,
and described their whole proceedings, two their illegal
election, as Consisting in appointment of a clerk, at 150
a year, but stithotli., any funds to pay him. tri, conceived
that the rerV; Was submitted for no other obj, ct than to
obtain for it indirectly the eanctiiin of the vestry, and he would
' therefore second Mr Carnes motion that it be not received.
The Cha'irasan : The vestry is not called upon to receive it,
nor are we called upon to reject it, and therefore we had
better say nothing about it. (Laughter ). -
Mr. Robertson G!adstone observed that Mr. Bremner
Imputed to the Burial Board an improper and discreditable
object in presenting the report to the vestry. He (Mr.
Gladstone) should empatically deny any such imputation,
and declare that there was not one member on the board
who could be capable of such an act. (Hear, hear.) Mr.
Gladstone was proceeding with some warmth to further
deny the imputation, when
The Chairman interposed, and observed that Mr.
Bremner had said nothing that was calculated or in-
tended to reflect oa the honoui or hcln'esty of the Burial
Board.
Mr. Bremner begged to say that he bad not the least
intention of itnputing anything improper to the Burial
Boatel, with many of the members of which
he was long acquainted, and for whom he entertained the
sincerest respect. All he objected to was the mode of their
appointment.
Mr Gladstone replied that he had nothing to do with
that. All that he knew was that ho was elected, and that
he properly di•eharged the duties of the office. (Hear.)
The matter then dropped.
It was agreed that the voting should commence at ten
o'clock on Thursday morning in the Sessions House.
Thanks were voted by acclamation to the rector, after
which the vestry separated.

THE NEW LIBRARY AND MUSEUM.

TO THE EDITOR OF THE NORTHERN TIMES

Sir,—This day is set apart for laying the first
stone of a monument to commemorate not only the
progress of the age, but the munificence of the
Liverpool Merchant Prince, William Brown. Esq
The occasion will, doubtless, be one of rejoicing,
but I fear not unmixed with astonishment and
shame, when the assembled . multitudes
are led down to the bottom of Shaw's Brow,
to the centre of the most gloomy and dirtiest por-
tion of Liverpool, then and there for the first time
practically to learn, what the writer has long since
endeavoured to point out, that the Museum is not
to be, as has been represented, at the top of the Hill,
near the old mill, but at the bottom, within a pistol.
shot of Byrom street.
It would be unfair, on a day of festivity,
to •say unkind things to the committee, upon
whom the choice of a site has devolved—
possibly they can give good reasons for their
actions—but as complaints, loud and deep,
upon the unsuitableness of the site, cannot fail
this day to reach their ears, is it too much to
hope that the veil of official mystery will be lifted
up ? And that the public will be favoured by Mr.
Picton, with his reasons for the choice of such a
locality for such a. noble building.
In January last, Mr. Alderman Bold, in his
place in Council, asked if it was too late
to amend this abominable selection, when Mr.
Picton, with a greater show of temper than is usual
with him, said that to consider the subject now
would be suicidal ; but that, if it were necessary, he
could prove that the proposed site was the most
eligible that could be found. Now, I think the
public this day will agree with me. that some such
proof is necessary; and I trust Mr. Picton will seize
this opportunity of allaying the anxiety of the
public mind as to what is the intention of the
council for the improvement of Shaw's Brow, and
the neighbourhood of St. George's Hall.—Your
obedient servant, H. C. B.
Liverpool, April, 15th, 1857.

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