The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-01-28 00:00:00

THE NORTHERN TIMES. -LIVERPOOL, WEDNESDAY.

themselves. During the first four months no boat left the
ship without a regular officer, yet there were 16 attempts
to escape out of an average of 26 boys. During the last
seven months of the year, out of an average of 60 boys,
there have been only eight attempts to run, though the
boats are now allowed to go to the shore with only the boys
in them. In no case has this confidence been abused; the
few escapes of late having been effected when the bop were
under the charge of one or more of the regular officers.
With one exception, every boy who has escaped from the
Akbar has been re-taken.

It may be thought that the total number of attempts to
run is somewhat large, but the committee believe that the
proportion is considerably smaller than in many other
reformatories. The mere fact of a boy attempting to run
they consider as only the natural consequence of that
discipline, order, and regularity which must be so very
irksomo at first to those impulsive and impetuous spirits
unaccustomed to any restraint or control beyond their own
passions:

The boys are extremely healthy, and appear to be
cheerful, contented, and active. Their bright and hopeful
expressions demonstrate that the power acquired over
their minds is intellectual and moral, and not one of harsh
control. Their progress, both under the schoolmaster
and in their nautical exercises, has been very satisfactory.
There is a library of uleful and instructive books on board,
of which the boys deo not fail to take advantage.
The followirg educational table will show the progress of
the boys in

Table Showing the progress of Bays When On 314
under the Schoolmaster. Admitted. Da., 1856.
Unable to read 25 . • • •
Could read a little .... .. ...... 27 .. 31
Could read well
Total

Unab'e to write
Could write a little 0 16 . 31
Could write well
Total 77 .. 77

Unable to cipher
Could do a lit'le .......
Proficient in elementary rules....

Total

A very marked progress has taken place in the character
and dispositions of some of those who were at one time
considered as the least hopeful cases. The following extracts
from the register may be interesting and encouraging.
A.—Ran away on the 15th of May ; brought back on
the 4th of July. Previous to running away, his conduct
good ; supposed to have been led away by others. Oct. 1.
After his return very oarelets ; improved last month.
D'o. 20. Much improved ; very steady, and a loading boy
of his division.
B.—Four times previously convicted. CondUct very
unsatisfactory. Ran away on the 15th of May, with three
others. June 22. Locked up for using disgusting and bad
language', at divisions, after being warned about irregular
conduct at divisions. Jane 30. Again attempted to run
away. Oct. 1. Certainly improved, and appears desirous
of getting on. Dec. 20. Has made most satisfactory pro-
gress, and anxious now to improve.
C.—Has been six or seven times in prison. This boy
says that the commencement of his crime was being turned
out by his father before he was eight years of age. He has
been about eighteen months in prison on various occasions ;
conduct treacherous.

D.'s conduct h9s been very bad. On the 21st of April ho
attempted to break into the storeroom with another boy. On
the 6th of June he took the jolly beat, in company with
three others, end gpt ashore. He was brought back on the
16th of June. October 1. No improvement in conduct.
He has made some progress in school, and works well aloft,
but a very bad boy. December 20. His conduct has greatly
improved, and his progress most satisfactorily; from being
far the worst boy he has now become a second leading
boy.

E.—Conduct fair. Attempted to run away on the 6th
of June, but stopped by the dock police. Oct 1. Conduct
much improved; rather hasty at times; but his constant
attention to one of the boys during his illness is deserving
of notice. Dee. 30. Improvement in school good ; going
on favour ,bly ; rather hasty in temper.
F.—Has been six times previously convicted. Oct. 1.
conduct has been very unsatisfactory ; a very idle stud
troublesome character. Dec. 20. Has lately made a decided
improvemont both in his general good conduct and also in
school ; far more satisfactory than anticipated.
Duiing the year one boy, while bathing and running
along the shore broke his le,. Another boy, during the
,{•...••3111G tit rts.ll/1.1.,
had a rapid succession of 6s, requiring constant attention
r:,ay and night. The watchful care,- sympathy, and tender-
ness of many of the boys to their sick companions, and
especially in the latter case, when the patient was at times
very irritable and exacting, was particularly gratifying and
encouraging to the committee, as an evidence that there
still exists much of good and right feeling in these bays ;
which, by a proper cultivation, and the blessing of God,
may prove a fulcrum on which to rest the lever of all our
exertions to praise these otherwise degraded and vicious boys
to a state of honesty and usefulness to society, and we
trust also to secure their eternal welfare.
The following extract from the report of the head
constable to the watch committee, dated 6th January, 1857.
is a most satisfactory evidence that these associations are
accomplishing their work, and that, too, more speedily than
the most sanguine could have anticipated :
Since the reformatories have been in operation a marked
diminution in juvenile crime has taken place in this borough,
for it ie known to the police that some parents who formerly
smt oat their children for the purpose of committing
felonies, upon the proceeds of which they subsisted, are now
aware that should their children be detected in crime they
would be taken from them, sent to a reformatory, and they
thsmselves charged a weekly sum, varying according to their
circumstances, for their maintainance. Greater care is taken
by such parents of their children, as it is now their interest
to prevent what was formerly encouraged by them. It
may, however, be proper to remark that it requires the
constant vigilance of the police to carry out the provisions
of the act.

The following table, being a comparative statement of
the ages of juvenile offenders taken into custody in the
years 1'855 and 1856, shows the degree in which this decrease
has taken place :
Table giving a comparative statement of the apprehenA
Biers of. uvenile criminals, for 1855 and 1856.
Under 10 From 10 to From 12 to
_ _

years. 12 years. 16 years. Total.
Years. M. F. M F. M. P. M. F.
1855. —B6 17 .. 161 90 .. 608 341 .. 865 445
1856 ....43 14 120 50 .. 607 212 .. 770 276
Here then we see, from the best authority, how the
working of the Reformatory Act influences the parents of
these criminal children, and if under the present very
unsatisfactory machinery for carry this part of the act into
operation the effects are so apparent,-what may we expect
when, by a more vigorous and rigid enforcement of the
orders of maintenance on parents, none shall hope to escape
the penalty he so richly deserves to pay for either the
entire neglect of his child, or the still greater criminality
of training it up to a vicious and dishonest course of life P
It is true the decrease of juvenile crime shown in the
above table may not be altogether owing to the action of
associations such as these, but the committee would only
ask that the following table of commitments, by Liverpool
magistrates, of juvenile offenders, since the act came into
operation, may be compared with the above return contained
in the head constable's report, and they think the conclusion
to be arrived is inevitable, viz , that the one is a sequence
of the other.
Committed to Reformatories by Liverpool Magistrates,
including three conditional pardons.
1345. Girls. Total.
1854 .
1856
1856

ments to nr. Roper, their honorary surgeon, for the valuable
services he has so kindly bestowed .in an unwearied attention
to the sanitary condition of the ship and the health of those
on board.

Such is a short account of the work -in which the com-
mittee have been engaged during the last year, and they
would express their continued conviction of the many
advantages . that a ship reformatory possesses over any
other ; and, calling attention to the foregoing details and
the satisfactory progress • shown therein, they would
earnestly urge a still increasing liberality on the part of
those who are interested in this great national work, which
in fact it is, as the committee are in correspondence with
and receive boys from the different reformatories throughout
England.
The committee are glad to be able to annaunce that they
have just concluded the purchase of a house and grounds in
Mount Vernon green, for a girls' reformatory, and they
hope very shortly to be in a position to commence
operations; but as the alterations, fittings, and furnishing
necessary to melee the house suitable for such a purpose
must necessarily involve a considerable outlay, they confi-
dently appeal to the public of Liverpool to provide them
with sufficient funds for this purpose, The urgent
necessity for girls' reformatories is admitted by all, and we
are sure no arguments need be used here to show the
importance of speedily and heartily going on with
this work, which they feel has only been already too long
delayed.
The committee hope to be able, as soon as they have it
in their power, to complete the original scheme of the
asseciatien, by establishing a lend reformatory for boys.
The want of sufficient funds for this purpose, has hitherto
prevented them from accomplishing this part of the scheme;
end, as a large accession to their pecuniary means, is
necessary for each a purpose, they trust that those who feel
the pressing necessity for carrying out and fully developieg
the views of the associadon will, not only themselves,
liberally supply the means, but will also give a personal co-
operation in establishing so important an adjunct to the
school frigate Akbar.
Mr. T. D. Anderson read the financial statement, from
which it appeared that there was a total balance in the
hands of the treasurer of £1,127 18s sd, besides which
they had £527 7s 6d to receive from the government for
one year's maintenance of some boys. But from that
balance they would now require £1,500 for the purchase
of the house at Mount Vernon for the reformatory for
the girls.
The Rev. Rector Campbell moved the first resolution.
He said :—ln recommending this resolution for adoption,
I conceive that I may confidently rely on the satisfaction
we must all of us feel at the success, (for all circumstances
considered, it must surely be regarded as a complete
success,) of the experiment which has been tried, and
at the same time I feel bound to offer my best thanks to
the secretaries, Mr. Cropper, Mr. Brougham, and those
other members of the executive sub-committee, to whose
unwearied labours I know that success is mainly due I
feel it my duty, also, through you, sir, to convey my
thanks to the Town Council for the w ell applied pecuniary
aid they have afforded. I would venture to express the
hope that the result of this and similar institutions
will induce the government to make the reformation of
juvenile offenders. end the prevention rather than the
punishment of crime, to be what it ought to be—a
national concern maintained out of the national revenue
—(hear, hear)--so that all may be made to pay to that
which is the interest of all, and that the expense of these
and similar institutions for the general welfare of the
community should not be defrayed out of the already
over taxed purses of that small portion of the
community who have some conscience in the distribntion
of their worldly goods, and think that a part at least
of what God has permitted them to acquire ought, in
conscience, to be returned to him. devoted to his honor, and
the good of hii fellowmen. (Hear hear.) And if it be
said that the public burdens are already heavy enough,
and that we do not want to be taxed any more for
the support of model prisons and juvenile reforma-
tories, I believe it may be answered, and indeed has been
answered, with well grounded confidence, that the
punishment of crime is incomparably more expensive
than the prevention of it would be —(hear, hear) ; and
that as prevention is always better than cure, as it is
always better and cheaper, by the exercise of temperance,
soberness and chastity, to keep the constitution in
good order, and ward off disease, than to
,be crippled
by the gout, or pay a doctor's bill, so unquestionably
if the government of 'any country can discover a mode
for the prevention of crime,—l do not mean to assert
that it is easy to do so,--they are bound by every obliga-
Lkuu, - ', __a w;.. 0.3,.p. Vi
out a moment's delay. National schools, ragged schools,
juvenile reformatories, and efficient detective police, the
proper classification and judicious punishment of
criminals, are all economical measures, which I
humbly think should be tried nationally, without too
much ;deference to sectarian prejudices, or that
penny wisdom which is so often found to be pound
foolishness. For surely, sir, if there is any use in
government at all, it is for the protection of life and
property, and the preservation of social order and
domestic security. We are justly proud of our constitutional
privileges; our civil and religious liberties purchased for us
at the stake and in the battle field are justly dear to us ;
the elective franchise is a precious right ; the freedom of
the press is said to be like the air we breathe—if we have
it not we die; but constinnional liberty is no very great
privilege, after all, without personal security. The improve.
ment, and it needs to be cosrcive improvement, °fettle
dangerous classes for the security of the peaceable classes,
is the chief blessing for peaceable and timid men ; and avete
for the county, or a vote for the borough, or that very great
privilege, a vote for the election of a town conncillor—
(laughter)—or even that greatest of all great privileges,
the pleasure of seeing our rulers in Church and State
abused in the columns cf the Times, aro very poor
compensation to peaceable and timid men for a broken
head, a rifled purse, or a plundered larder. (Cheers.) If,
as is said to he the case in some localities, (happily not iti
our well ordered commun'ty, with so effective a police and
so excellent a magistrate), you cannot walk the streets with-
out a chance of being garotted, or sleep in pe3ce without
bolted doors and a Colt's revolver by your side, you will be
something like the country mouse in the fable. He, as you
know, when he had been driven by the sudden irruption
of the cat from his luxurious entertainment at the town
mouse's table, said, when he had escaped from her claws,
Give me my hole and hollow tree,— •
A crust of bread and liberty.
So in such a state of society as I have described, it would
be a question, at least with peaceable and timid men,
whether it might not be well to give up a few constitutional
luxuries for the sake of a crust and personal security,—to
part with a little theoretical liberty for the sake of a little
more practical freedom, and try every probable experiment
to rid ourselves from that most expensive nuisance, a
population increasing in vice and lawlessness as fast as it
increases in numbers and power: • I now conclude by
proposing the adoption of the resolution. (Loud applause.)
Mr. W. Brown. MP, seconded the resolution. He
observed that it was an old saying, that to begin at the
right end was to begin at the beginning. It was upon
that principle they were now acting in establishing re-
formatories throughout the country, and particnlarly in
their mode of management of these institutions. It was
easy to train boys to habits of virtue when young, but
once they were permitted to grow up to the age of
eighteen or twenty, any att- mpt at their reformation
could not be attended with a like success. (IL ar, bean)._
He feared that much of the want of success in the case
of such persons could be traced to that sympathy for
criminals so prevalent in those times. and which con-
verted the gaols into palaces, instead of keg ing them, as
intended, places of punishment. He thought if at y gentle-
man would go through the borough gaol and have every
cell thrown open he would not hear from any of the one
thousand prisoners confined there a single complaint as
to their nositisn. About three weeks ago he went through
the building, and the only complaint be heard was from
one prisoner who was going out, and who complained
that he had no money in his pocket. (Hear, hear, and
laughter.) He thought that criminals- were beginning
to consider imprisonment in gaol no punishment at all
Let them look at the cases of females of abandoned
characters confined in prisons. They were sent to gaol
frequently in a state of disease: they were there nursed,
and then sent out with restored health and vigour to
commit the same crimes, and pursue a like course of
wickedness. (hear, hear.) As for the juvenile offenders,
they were in many cases prompted to crime by their
parents, and by the influence and example of victuals
companions who too frequently were criminals released
from prison, and who, used their experience to contami-
nate the rising geneiation. (Hear, hear) Before 1853,
previous to the ticket of-leave men being let lecse
amongst them, there were about 1,000 criminals of all
grades released each year from the gaols ; but since the
ticket-of-leave system was adopted, that number was
doubled, and they had now 2,000 criminals a year thrown
in amongst them. They all knew the contaminating influ-
ence which the criminals so released exercised on the young
among whom they mixed, and how then could they
wonder at the number of juvenile thieves amongst them ?
(Hear, hear) He perfectly cgreed with their Reverend
friend that prevention was much better than ctire—
na(heotani
r th
cure-
(hear)—bunt
—lb7ititdtii docks,
twas also much more economical, lie could
feelingkthar,ee.aZynrode.ut
wnthghn ,atthey could not deal iri such a
manner girls
lirilnseww, were only
abort
boyseverydn ano
theypl
rvw.ao
couuld ld
ip epoetp oitrnot uu
cut ieh
t ea:toy
class.d ear(n.
(Hear.)
eHac
roe. r erngi rt e ttt
Theyle.: de
nt he
rtayoet
exceedingly f, ,rm at reformatories—(hear, ie s—
indebted(hear,
thoe hear)—because )r—Cbrencpa
Cropper
es
re
andby fo dr. Bori
nis en g
h a them
for the great interest these gentlemen took in this cause
—(h ar, hear)—and Jae hoped that the result of that

attention, as witnessed in the Liverpool Reformatory,
would convince the government that they (the govern-
ment) should provide the means for carrying it out. He
was exceedingly glad to hear that it was in contemplation
to have a female reformatory; for he believed there was
more to be done in educating girls well than in the case
of boys. Boys took the first impression from their
mothers, and it was therefore desirable above all things
that the future mothers should be trained up in habits of
order and virtue, which they would in turn inculcate
on their children. The hon. gentleman then referred to
an article which appeared in a recent number of the
gxaminer to show how the "humanity mongers" would
treat criminals, and concluded by quoting a few extracts
from a tract entitled "Suggestions on the treatment of
Criminals," by Mr: W. W. Stephens, Logic Green,
Edinburgh. The extracts were to the effect that the
efforts of the philanthropists should be directed mainly
to the reclamation of offenders at' the early stages of
their career, and to devising punishment for the
hardened classes which should operate as an effec-
tnal turn to the others ; that the chief error
in the preient system of criminal discipline wis to be
found in the deficiency of severity, in the labours of the
criminals not being made a curative means to themselves,
nor remunerative to the state, and in there being no pro
vision for the honest employment of criminals on release ;
and, finally, that the only hope for the p,esent decrease
of crime should rest on moral traiping being made com-
pulsory to the young and the dangerous clesses. (Hear.)
Mr. James Gillespie said, he wished to be allowed to say
a few words on the report, h.-cause he was not aware if the
gentlemen present were quite conscious of the state of
a vast amount of the juveni'e population' of this large town.
It was indeed shocking and degrarlir.s..• If they were to
draw a line across the town, from the building they were
then in to St. George's Hell, they would find that all along
Dale street, and, the streets branching therefrom, that there
was not a single school. He had traversed all those streets,
and he found that they were inhabited by a vast population,
and a population of the very Worst description of characters,
and yet all over that large space there was not a single
school, except a single elementary school. If he felt
inclined to say one word on the excellent remarks that had
been made' by the Rev. Rector Campbell, he' thought he
might do it so on the observation that he had made,
" prevention is better than cure." He would ask what
steps were to he taken for the 'cure of these poor neglected
children ? He had traversed the streets, the courts, and
I the alleys in the locality he had named, he had ascended
into the attics, and descended into the cellars, he had seen
and heard the conduct and the language of the children.
He had not been on board the Akbar, but they could not be
a worse class than those he had seen, and he felt convinced
that some steps should be taken to improve the moral con-
dition of the children in the locality he had named; where
singlete ry mightscrhoofoolr.maltioeexpress be found, expressed a hope
thatthat,
howeverthere w a sbeneficialnot
still more efforts would be shown by the benevolent people
o! Liverpool, to effect some physical, moral, and intellectual
training for the children of the poor. As he had himself
traversed those regions, he hoped that he should not be
considered as having obtruded himself on the meeting.
The first resolution' was then put from the chair, and
unanimously adopted.
J. C E wart, Esq., M.P., then moved the adoption of the
second resolution, and in doing so said it was not necessary:
for him to occupy the time of the meeting, as he fervently
agreed with the remarks which had been made by the Rev.
Rector Campbell, when he said that in their mode of the
punishment of criminals they should not seek for vengeance,
but that they should seek to prevent crime in the future,
and to make every effort for the reformation of those poor
creatures who had erred. .R was necessary that they should
take the circumstances of these poor people into considera-
tion, and in doing so they must consider the temptations to
which they were exposed—perhaps to more temptations
than in any other port in the country—when they looked
to the immense quantity of goods that were constantly
exposed on the quays, the valuable materials that were
used in shipbuilding, such as copper, 'it was likely that
mothers would send their children out to steal such things
rather than allow them to get a decent living by industry,
and if they were punished by being sent to a gaol, they
had to mix with worse characters than themselves, and thus
become contaminated, and instead of being improved, they
come out worse than they went in. But he was exceedingly
glad to hear such a favourable report as had been read, for
which they were deeply indebted to those gentlemen who,
notwithstanding their own personal inconvenience, had
devoted so ranch time and attention to the affairs of
the institution. There was no doubt but that the
establishment of the Reformatory had been pro tuctive
of great good, and he did hope that not only
that town, but every town throughout the country, would
take the matter up in the same way that Liverpool had
done, and that they might have many such institutions ;
but he did not wish to have such reformatories supported,
as they were in Liverpool, by a few benevolent individuals,
for, as it was clear, they were a general benefit to the whole
country ; then inch reformatories should be supported. not
alone by the inhabitants of the place in which they were,
but by the State. (Applause). With those few remarks,
he begged to move the adoption of the resolution which
had been placed in his hands :—" That the experience of
the past year confirms the sanguine expectations entertained
at the commencement of this great undertaking, that naval
discipline, carried out with consideration and firmness, is
admirably calculated to correct the unsettled propensities
of boys who have been exposed to dangerous influences.
This meeting would, therefore, encourage the committee to
persevere, with the assurenee of continued support ; and
would also express its satisfaction that progress is made
towards the early establishment of a girls reformatory?'
Mr. William Rathbone said he had much pleasure in
seconding the resolution that had just been moved, and
would not trouble them with any remark farther than to
say, that the report which had been read had been so ably
drawn up that it contained within itself all that need be
said on the subject. Some gentlemen have thought, that
these institutions should be taken ,up by the government,
for his part he hoped that they would be taken up by
government, but so taken up that the government would
have to act in co-operation with the other local authorities,
for he had to particular faith in government interference,
or government economy, although he was not about 'o say
that he was radical enough to believe that every thing that
government interfered with was bad, but if they had such
interference with that institution, he did not think that the
right man would always be found in the right place. Having
passed a few complimentary remarks on the services
rendered by Mr. J. Cropper, Mr. Brougham, and others,
with reference to the part they had taken in the establish.
ment of the-Akbar Reformatory; be said he believed that
they had began at the right end, and he expected great
good to result from their efforts. Without going into the
subject very deeply, he thought he ought to say
that the morbid humanity mongers believed that
those whom they were providing for did not know
right froM wrong, and therefore were not morally
responsible for their acts, and therefore requiredhocona committed
protection. That was his view of the case, but furtte::yelle,:jon
that he would not go. It was very melancholy
many poor children strolling about the streets for re'iunsier,
upbeforea
and yet they could not ba touched until they
some offence. ,Therefore there was no chance of sending
reformatorylh(npaliedt.innedsttahelhrutta,eoniitihferthiacitlerdahsari
)arbcryf.
3)t
nationality)ieei
ensrnhhg said
Ttauhfiblerderial retatbnhl :csdeatyaastit.nsdaniwtdktet committede
n
tfittowhrhl ibiueeoeee
yfdi nrttd,
independence
inoooruddtseat as
Scotland
nv
answer
atdtrehnheered.on wuce(
egxea
eonli had
were
dhhaaboperation.
proude bbn ee
eeennn of
a flourishinghop e tha
in thethe ikneintigtduc,timon.,
expense to the poor, bet in Aberdeen the people had paid
alnndcothnactluistiowno,ulhde
beexthPereMeodst
would receive the earnest and cordial support of all classes
(Applause.)
The reso)ution was unanimously adopted.
Mr. Mansfield moved the third resolution, which. WllB as
follows :—" That this meeting, convinced of the wisdom of
the provision of the act of parliament for holding the
parents of convicted children pecuniarily responsible -for a
part of the maintenance of their children, when underTefor-
matory treatment, is anxious to press upon the government
the propriety of making more efficient arrangements than
at present exist for carrying the intention of the
legislature 'into effect. " He said that when
the secretary called on him some two or three days since,
and told him that it was desirable that even so humble
an individual as he should move one of the resolutions on
the occasion of the meeting of the'association ; he thought
it well to occupy the interval in the consideration of a few
subjects connected with reformatories, which he fancied it
would be useful for the meeting to know. He found, how-
ever, that. he bad been anticipated in the very eloquent
address which they had heard from the rev. rector ; and,
in fact, what he had intended to speak of, had been much
more ably treated by the gentlemen who preceded him. He
would not, therefore, have occasion to tresspass long on
their attention ; but he could not forego the pleasure of
expressing the great gratification which he felt—and felt,
he believed, in common with those who heard him--at the
report read by Mr. Brougham, respecting the progress made
in the Akbar. lt, seemed to him that, if there was one
thing to be regretted in the report, it was, that the benefits
occurring from that institution had not been spread over on
a somewhat larger surface. If he understood Air. Brougham
correctly, it appeared that only 77 pupils were on board the
Akbar at present, though he believed that the ship was of
such dimensions that,that number might be doubled, perhaps
trebled ; and no inconvenience arise to the discipline or
health of those on beard of her. (Hear, hear, and loud
applause.) Ho knew that 'great efforts had been made;
and, in fact, he could not suggest any particular
means which could pot be more readily devised by those
gentlemen who had the conduct of the institution, to remedy
that state of things; but it was desirable that all their

efforts should be used to obtain from the inland reformatories
the number of boys requisite to fill up the complement of
the " Akbar." At present it would "go forth—that the
boys already on board of her were costing so many pounds
per head ; and if that impression were not removed, peop I
might consider that though reformatories were desirable,
they were too expensive, by contrasting the exeense with
the number of boys on board the "Akbar." There was a
difficulty here which, when he had the honor of addressing
a meeting of this kind last year, did not occur to him ; but
the circumstances of Liverpool were very peculiar. The
discipline on board the " Akbar" was partly religious, and
the religion of the country, as it naturally would be, was
taught there; that the large proportion of the offenders of
this town belonged to another denomination of Christians,
and they, naturally enough, were exceedingly unwilling
that any of the young people of their faith should
be instructed in that of another. Anybody who
knew the human heart, and, had experience of
life would 'not be surprised at that, nor was it for him to
condemn them ; but in some instances, though a vast
number of juvenile offenders came before him thy after due,
there Were very few of them eligible for the " Akbar," and
that, in point of fact, accounted for the very few sent by
him to the institution. The consequence was that a very
considerable proportion of those who were sent to the
" Akbar" were strangers from inland counties in return for
boys sent to them. There was now a difficelty which
seemed to threaten even that source of supply. His friend,
the Rev. Mr. Carter, to whom he was greatly indebted, and
without whose assi,Aanee it would have been almost
impossible to carry hut the act, informed him that in the
inland counties reformatories there was now no room ; and
therefore there was a difficulty in that quarter which was
very serious. The system had worked well, and it would
be a source of regret if anything occurred to check it.
(Hear, hear) Nothing could be more gratifying
than what they had heard from the best authority
as to the diminution of juvenile offenders, and that
had unquestionably arisen from the compulsion on the
parents to contribute to the support of their children in the
Reformatories (hear, hear). He had that confirmed by a
superintendent of police, who was not likely to be led away
by his feelings or sanguine hopes, and his opinion. Tight be
relied on as being strictly correct. It was a great thing at
all events, even if no other result followed, to have got some
diminution in the number of juvenile offenders (hear, hear),
and he trusted and lAieved that, with greater efforts in this
direction, they would find the number still more dinieish
(hear, hear). A thief was not an animal that grew spon-
taneously (hear, hear). He had to be cleverly trained to
his business, as everybody else who would follow a trade
with success (hear, hear). It was said a thousand years
ago that nobody became a criminal 'suddenly, and that
truth, proclaimed a thousand years ago, remained still
unshaken, (Hear, hear.) The reformatories were only a
short time in?operation,'.and they could not, therefore,
expect to see that great diminution in the number of
juvenile offenders which some people might imagine should
flew at once from the establishment of such institutions,
(Hear, hear.) One of the greatest checks on the corn.
mission of juvenile offences, was the circumstance that
the parents, or those who stood in loco parentis, were
obliged to contribute to the maintenance of their children.
That had been found a most salutary check, but there was
great difficulty in practically enforcing it. He believed
the absurdity had been perpetrated on a gentleriaan of
Birmingham being sent down here to collect the money
from the parents of juvenile offenders ; but really, hi a
great town like Liverpool, with nearly half a million of
inhabitants, they should not have a Government officer so
sent:down to discharge such a duty. (Hear, hear.) The
obligation on the parent to pay for the support of the
child, was one of the most effectual cheeks on juvenile
crime, but though the difficulties to collect the money
were great, yet it was ridiculous to hear of the small sums
paid by the parents for their chlldrea in the reformatories.
The obligation should be enforced, and when parents
learned that they would have to pay 5s or so a week for
their child, they would be more careful in preventing
them from falling into a vicious course of life. (Applause.)
Toe Rev. Mr. Carter, in seconding the resolution, said,
he could assure the gentlemen that he always felt a great
pleasure in attending meetings of that kind, and as a
member of the committee, he did not know a greater
pleasure than in taking a part in the management of
the institution. If Mr. Mansfield had felt that the ground
had been taken from under him by the speeches that had
been made, how much greater was his' difficulty, after that
gentleman's speech—as he had gone over the very same
grounds that he had intended to have turned over ; but,
notwithstanding these drawbacks, he would offer one or
two observations. He thought that it was an undeniable
fact, that nine-tenths of the juvenile crime of this
population arose from parental neglect, or to loco parentis
that is in the place of parents. lie then alludel to the
habitations of the poor in the locality of Dale street, and
other populous thoroughfares, referred to by a former
speaker, and to Scotland road, where he himself had
witnessed the filth and immorality of the inhabitants, and
said it would require all the water from the Pike to cleanse
the former, and all the efforts of a much larger meeting
than the present to cleanse the moral filth out of it. (Hear,
hear.) It would be well for gentlemen who took an interest
in the poor, and in their welt being, to go and spend, as he
had done, a short time in such localities, by diving into
the courts, and cellars, and alleys, and see for them-
selves. They had heard a great deal of the flourishing
state, of the institution, and the good that was resulting
from its establishment, but he had no doubt but that next
year, they would be more flourishing. He thought that
the operation of the act should be divided into two parts
—the one with reference to the effect it had on the child-
ren, and the other the effect it had on the parents. He
found that the effect on the children had been satisfactory,
but the effect on the parents had been much more so, as'it
had made them better acquainted with their responsibili-
ties, and their liabilities; and the effect was, that parents
had become more anxious to keep the children from the
streets—(hear, hear)—to send them to a school—(hear,
hear)—and a greater amount of watchfulness on their
part had been shown. (Hear, hear.) That was the
result of his own information, but he had also been
informed by others, who had had an equal opportunity of
seeing, who were of the same opinion. He had been cons
versing with two. Roman Catholic clergymen, and they MO stated that they were satisfied, from what they had ae •
of the good results accruing from the working of 0' ee
in their respective districts. Sad Was the effoe' act
parents. He next said it wag Ohlv right. to " o the
"' n
therefore, ' give honour
to whom honour is due; and,
the Roman Catholics had most aealotielri must say that
forwarding the juvenile criminal act contributed in
large institutions—two for boys, ir • They had three
which Mr. Mansfield had the P)v _ad one for girls—to
,ter .of committing. In
conclusion, he said that the sue-
institution, was sufficient to Jess that had attended the
right foundation, and expr show that they were, on a
h
essed a oe they wou
continue to be kept in te•,e
hands of thep localthat aut horities.ld He begged leave moo
The Rev. heeler cordially to second the resolution.
to be understood Campbell said :He never wished it
'that the government was to take the
management ot • •
them to
give us the bread, and we will manage them.
Mr. Ee
.ra.rt said he did not wish to take the management
outsof#:ne hands of the local powers but he did say,
than, as such reformatories were the means of being
eat public benefit, he thought that the government
should most liberally contribute-to their support; but he
never wished to see the management of such institutions
in the hands of the government.
Mr. Browne was going to make the same explanation.
All he wanted was for the Government to find the means
for their support, and the management to be left to the
local authorities.
The resolution was then unanimously adopted.
In answer to a question put by Mr. Holt,
Mr. Brougham replied that all the commitments to the
Akbar had not been made by the. Liverpool magistrates,
as the boys came from all parts of England, and he also
explained that the reason there had been only 63 or 77 lads
on board the Akbar was, that the committee wished to
have that number brought into proper discipline before
they took a larger number; but, now that all was under
proper control, they were ready to take 150 boys on board
if they were sent to them.

Mr: J. Cropper, in moving a vote of thanks to the
Mayor for taking the chair on the present occasion, begged
to tender his thanks for the complimentary manner in
which his name had been mentioned, and to say that he
should always be happy to render any service that laid in
his power. (Hear, hear.) But, before sitting down, he
wished to notice one point, as it might be thought they
had been, a little extravagant with the money. It was
true they had spent £l,BOO in the outfitting of the institu-
tion, but, were the committee to have to do it over again,
they might save something. He could only say,
however, that they had spent the money as if it
was their own. (Hear, bear.) He wished also to
ell'. the attention of the meeting to the fact that
they should want more money to establish the girls'
reformatory. For that they would have to call upon the
benevolent people of Liverpool, and he had no doubt but
that it would be responded to in the spirit of liberality.
He pointed out a case where one of the worst boys,
although never convicted, had been reformed, and said
that the reformatories were as great a benefit to parents
as to the public. He concluded by moving the resolution.
Mr. Oreaves seconded the motion. He said it was his
wish to add one word on the question of reformatories,
but as their claims had been so forcibly put, it was
unnecessary for him to detain them at any length ; but
for his own opinion he had no fear but that the Akbar
Reformatory would be one of the most successful institu-
tions in the town. But he wished to add ono word
to the shipowners, for much of "the success must depend
on the cordiality with which the shipowners acted with
the committee, in carrying out such an undertaking. But
he would inform th-) shipowners that he had himself
received one of -the bore from the Akbar. He had sent
him out in a vessel with four other boys not connected
with that reformatory, and if ho wanted to select a boy
for brightness, intelligence, and assiduity, he should take
the boy that came from the Akbar reformatory; and he
believed that the shipowners wou'd find that they were
not only doing good to the public, but themselves great
service, in finding homes fur such boys when the com-
mittee said they were fit to leave the Akbar. He con-
cluded by seconding the resolution.
The Mayor having briefly returnd thanks, the meeting
separated.