The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-01-07 00:00:00

THE PROPOSED DIVISION OP THE WEST DERBY 'UNION.

A special vestry meeting of the ratepayers of the extra-
parochial place of the Toxteth Park was convened at the public
offices, Park place, for the purpose of taking into consideration
the proposed alterations and extension of the workhouse at
West Derby, and also for considdring the desirability, or other-
wise, of a separation of the out township of Toxteth Park from
the West Derby Union. This meeting was called on the
present occasion in consequence of the Board of Guardians
having decided to take into consideration the plans, &c., made
by Mr. A. Holme for the alteration of the workhouse, which
plans will be discussed; and adopted or rejected at the weekly
meeting of the board to be held this day, and as Toxteth Park
forms a most important portion of the union, it was considered
desirable that the ratepayers should express their opinion on
such an important subject. Shortly after the hour appointed
(ten o'clock), there being about twenty persons present, Mr.
John Wilson was unanimously called upon to preside.
In taking the chair he said : Gentlemen, you are all aware
of the object of our meeting from the notice which has been
read by the clerk, and I think it is a very desirable and
an important matter we are met to consider, it is as to the
separation of the Toxteth Park district from the West Derby
Union. (Hear, hear) This union, in my opinion, should
never have taken place. (Hear, hear.) It was wrong from
the commencement, and as time passes on it is still
shown that it is wrong. The object of this
meeting is to consider the desirability of the
separation. I believe there never was a guardian, or overseer,
or ratepayer in Toxteth Park district, that believed the union
was good; and that all the guardians who had been sent to
represent it in that board, were very soon convinced of the
absurdity of the union; thee it did not work well, as regards
the interest of Toxteth Park. I was a guardian for one
year, and I very soon formed the opinion that the union did not
work well ; and all guardians who had gone to that board were
soon convinced of that fact, and I believe that all guardians,
all overseers, and all the ratepayers, are of the same 'opinion.
I think you are all so well conversant with the subject, that I
need not say more ; but shall be happy to hear any gentleman
who has any remarks to make on the subject.
Mr. Williams then came forward, for the purpose of mov-
ing the adoption of the first resolution, he said : The reason this
meeting had been called, wea in consequence of the report that
had been made by Mr. A. Holme, to the West Derby Board
of Guardians, on the inefficient accommodation of the present
workhouse and, as that report will be considered to-morrow.
(this day), Wednesday, by the board, it was thought advisable
that the ratepayers of this district should express' their opinion
on the subject. Many of the ratepayers have long felt, and
expressed an opinion that, there was no occasion for the union
with West Derby; and that the two districts should
be separated as speedily as possible. [Hear, hear.) He
thought, as far as he had been able to form an
opinion no good' had ever resulted 'from the union, neither to
the guardians, the overseers, or the ratepayers, to either Tox-
teth Park or West Derby. There were many, perhaps, who
would like to know the state of affairs from the beginning, and
on that point he would throw some better.light. It appears
'that the. present buildings, the workhouse and the hospital,
cost the union £29,400; that that sum had been borrowed
from time to time, under a clause in the act of parliament, and
that out of the £29,400 borrowed, £12,000 has been paid;
and out of the £12,000 which has been repaid, .Toxteth Park
has paid £6,000, so that it would be easily seen that Toxteth
Park bad had to pay half the costs of the buildings. Ile then
went to show from statistics which had been prepared, that for
the last seven years, nearly half of the whole amount which
had been paid into the treasury of the union had been paid-by
Toxteth Park. (Hear. hear.) Such facts as those at oiace
brought him to the object of the meeting, namely, to consider
whether it was right that they should continue any longer in
connection with the union, or whether they should not at once
separate from such a connection. (Hear, hear.) There were
many reasons why they should pursue the latter course, one
of which was the great want of confidence that was felt in the
present system. All the guardians that had been sent to
represent that board had been dissatisfied with the system, and
had always made complaints that they were not able
to get the information they required. Now, he con-
tended that, as the ratepayers found the money,
they had a right to know how it was expended.
(Hear, heir) They had a right to know how their
funds were administered. Now, with regard to the guardians,
they were sent to that board as delegates, and should know
what was going on, but as it appeared all the duties they had to
perform was simply to provide the money, and if over they
wanted to know how it was expended. there was always Borne
difficulty thrown in their way to prevent them from getting the
information they sought after. That was a state of things that
had no right to exist, as it was not in accordance with the
constitution of the country, the great principle in Great Britain
being that if the people raised the money, they had a right to
know how it was expended. (Hear, hear.) The next point of
objection to the present system was the d.fficulty that was
thrown in the way of the overseers in performing their duties,
They had a right to be able to render an account to the rate-
payi rs, but such was not the case, and they were not able to
perform their duties to the satisfaction of themselves, and
therefore it could not be expected that. they gave satisfaction to
others. The guardians had always made the same complaints,
and they were thus placed in a position that they :could not
obtain the slightest information. There was another point :
the poor man who had to pay the rates, and had sometimes to
go without his coat or his dinner to do so, could never learn
how his money was expended. He next directed the a.lention
of the meeting to the common charges account,—that did not
include the amount paid to the poor, but was for tho wages of
the governor and his staff, the cost of coals, lighting, or what
might be termed incidental expenses. In• 1855 the amount
of those incidental expenses wits £7,445 12s, and
out of that Tnxteth park 'paid' £3,515.78 51 In 1856,
they were £7,385 18s 7d, and Toxteth park paid £3.515
18s 6d. From that, it appeared to him that it would be
a great saving if they bad a workhouse of their own. He
likewise referred to the common fund account, from which
it appeared that a similar disparagement was the result.
Now, it appeared to-him that this was a most important
subject, as it was quite clear that there was something
radically wrong in the present system. The present union
was becoming a cumbrous machine, a machine that was
slow in its movements, and required a deal of oil to keep
it in motion, and required more power to keep it in
motion than could be bestowed upon it. (Hear, hear.)
Well, it appeared that the present buildings had cost no
less a sum than £29 400, and that building had been con-
structed to contain accommodation for 787 persons. At
the present. time there were 690 paupers in those estab-
lishments ; of these 690 persons who were in the houses,
there,were 360 who belonged to Toxteth park. Now, if
these two buildings—the workhouse and the hospital—had
been constructed at a cost of X 29,400, he could not con-
ceive but that they could erect .a workhouse for Toxteth
park at less than half that amount. (Hear, hear.) He
was aware that all such calculations could not be other-
wise than problematical, but still, he •thought, that if a
house for 787. persons had cost ,e 29,000, that one such as
they required could be erected for' half that amount. But
an artist had been spoken to, and his opinion was that a
workhouse, exclusive of the land, could be built for little
more than £B,OOO. In making the observations he had
done, he did not wish to cast 4.ny blame on the
guardians, what he blamed was the system. He next
proceeded to answer some of the objections that might
be urged by some of the microscopic minds who opposed
the separation, the chief one of which might be
that, although the district had been !paying more than
it should do it was then paying less ; but his answer was,
that that was an injustice to other districts in the union,
and that they had all " a right to do as they would be
done by." Having urged upon the meeting to support the
separation by all legitimate means, he concluded by mov-
ing the adoption of the following resolution :—Resolved
That, as the West Derby Union has become inconveni-
ently large—as the present workhouse has become so
small that it is proposed to make additions to it, or build
a new one, or both—and as it is found from experience,
that about one half of all the furida expended by the union
are provided by Toxteth Park, this meeting is of opinion,
that the time has arrived when a separation can he made
between the union and Toxteth Park with advantage to
both, and request their guardians to make that represen-
tation to the board at the next meeting, and to use every
!ultimate means for securing that end.
2Mr. Mullins seconded the resolution. In doing so he
stated the difficulties he had had to obtain information
while he was a guardian, and urged upon the ratepayers
the necessity of doing their own business if they wished
to have it done well.

The Chairman then put the motion from the chair,
which was unanimously adopted.
Mr. Craig wished to know if he was to understand that
it was the wish of the ratepayers that when the report
was considered to-morrow, he was to support the separa-
tion.

The Chairman: That is the opinion of the meeting.
Mr. Craig : Then I am to oppose any extension or
alteration.
The Chairman : Yes.

Mr. Mullins : And if you are out voted, we must send
up a memorial to the poor law board, and insist upon
having a separation from the union.
The Chairman : We must take every legitimate means
of obtaining a separate union. There is no reason why
we should not have a vestry, and transact our own
business. (Hear, hear.)
After a vote of thanks to the chairman, the meeting
separated.

APPREHENSION OF FOUR B MARS IN THE WEST
RIDING. —Forcible entrance was made into the house of a
person named James Ramrleo, a coal miner, at Middleton,
near Wakefield. on the night f the 31st of December. The
robbers managed to clear the premises of everything valu-
able, incluling Ramsden's watch, and all his own and his
wififii wearing apparel. Superintendent Hall, of the rural
police, soco-eled in apprehending four ruffianly men on
Saturday last, who are Feverally named William Henry
Taylor, Thomas Colter, James Parker, and I;aac Myers,
end recovering a portion of the property taken from Rams-
den's hcuse. The prisoners stand remanded.

THE LIVERPOOL FINANCIAL REFOR3I ASSO-
CIATIOIV.

There was a very full adjourned meeting of the
Council on Friday iast, the members having been specially
summoned for the consideration of various important,
matters chiefly connected with the present agitation
against the property and income tax, and the apparent
danger to the progress of sound principles of fiscal and
commercial legislation which it involves.