Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-10-30 00:00:00

DOCK COMMITTEE

This Committee met at one o'clock yesterday—Mr.
Charles Turner in the chair. The other members prisent
were Messrs Lockett, Bold, Clint, Mandell, Smith, Robin-
son, Barber, Rounthv% site, Anderson, James Holmes,
Ealhead and Rathbone. _

A resolution was read from the Birkenhead Docks Com-
mittee of the Town Council, appl3ing to the Dock Com-
mittee to have the construction of the wharf walls,
rema;niug unexecuted at Birkenhead, on the north side of
the pool, should be erected under the superintendence of
3111. r. Hartley and by the workmen of the Dock E,tate.
The application was ranted.
A le ter was also received from the Finance Committee
of 'he To Council, approving of the terms of the con-
tract for the erection of offices upon the New Landing
Stage.

RETENTION OF SCEPLITS CATION.
Mr. Berm brought forward the following motion, of
which he had given notice :—" That all surplus cargo be
delivered up to the master, pr vided the owners or coneig-
mess Nadi join the master in an indemnity to the trustees."
He thought it unnecessary, after the returns which he had
moved for a month ago, and which had lain upon
the table for a week, to make any lengthened obser-
vations, as he conceived that every member had
probably made himself master of all the de
tails. It appeared from the returns, which he had
examined very accurately, that there were fifty-two vessels
'whose surplus cargo had already been sold, There were
only seven instances out of the whole, amounting to'
-19 9s. 6d., in which the freight in the surplus cargo had
been paid to the owners of the ship. The nett proceeds
arising from the sale of the surplus cargo of the fifty-two
vessels, amounted to £193 Bs. 61 There were now
different articles in the shape of surplus cargo lying in
the various dock warehouses, from forty-one ships in the
Albert Dock, fourteen in the Stanley Dock, and six in the
Wapping Dock, in altogether surplus cargo from sixty one
ships. Putting a moderate market price upon these articles,
he made out the amount upwards of £6OO. He could not
see why that estate was to hold property coming into their
hands in the way it had done, and not surrender it to the
master or owner of the vessel. He could mention severel
instances cf what he considered great hardship upon the
eaptaine' or mates' of vessels, but it was almost unnecessary
to do •o, as every man around the table understood the
subject so well In several instances of which he had
heard, and of which he knew there had been d,fi-
elencies of sugar, for instance, and a surplus
of rice to the same nunber of b.ga, so that
the mates or captains cf the vessels had to pay for the
sugar, which every body knew had a much greater value
than the rice ; but, although the proceeds of the rice
might go in mitigation of the amounts they had to pay for
lie sugar, still the Dock Committee held the rice while
they had to pay for the sugar. (Hear, hear.) Now in
Calcutta, it was often very difficult for the mate, taking in
his cargo in a hurry, to distinguish between the two articles.
He got his full compliment of bags, and was not severe Oat
any mistake had occurred until when .e arrived here, he
had to pay for the deficiency of sugar, and could not keep
the surplus of rice Mr Bold contended that the trustees
had no right to keep the surplus, and quoted portions of
the opinions of Mr Quaine, which had been obtained upon
the subject, to show that the Dock Committee might safely
adopt the course recommended in his motion.
The CHAIRMAN reminded th= Committee that Me Quaine
expressed an approval of the course at present pursued by
the Dock Committee, and recommended that in the next
Act of arliament, to be sought, a special dame might be
obtained to sanction it.
Mr. CLINT seconded the motion of Mr. Bold, in whose
opinions he +idly c mcurred, and urged that the shipowner
ahoul t be pieced in the same position in the Albert Dock,
as in ss,y et the open docks of the pert.
Mr ROBINS 'IN said the Warehouse Committee had fol-
lowed out 'hi present plan since tho opening of the ware-
houses. He could see no objection to Mr. B .ld's motion,
provieed reasonable time were given for detaining the
woduce, say twelve month., and then, if no application
same during that period, the surplus cargo might he very
propel ly handed over to the parties representing the ship,
on the Dock Trustees receiving a proper indemni y
Looking at the small amount realized during the last ten
years, showed that a great many portions of the surplus
cargo had been claimed. In many instances claims had
been made after a longer period than twelve months, even
after two or three Jeers.
Mr. BARBER thought Mr. Bold had pat the question
very fairly, and approved of the motion which had been
proposed. He rrmarked that at New Orleans, one of the
most important ports of the United States as
regarded Liverpool, it was the custom to load
the ships two or three deep at the wharf. It
freqeenely happened that mistakes occurred as to
cargo, but there was an ag 'cement existing between the
captains of the vessels, by which, if it happened that two
were sailing at 'he same time, one, say for Liverpool, and
the other for Havre, and it was subsequently discovered
that one had surplus cargo, ho should hand the surplus, or
the value of it, over to the other. He thought it rather
hard in such a case that the captain who had the surplus
cargo should have, on arriving here, to hand it over to the
Dock Committee, a body of which he, perhaps, did not
:know anything, perhaps did not know bat that it was a
marine store or something of the kind. (Loud cheers and
laughter.) _ _ _

1". Bo'rn remarked that if the Dock Trustees obtained
an indemnity, as he proposed, there could be no necessity
For detaining the surplus cargo fir twelve months
The CHAIRMAN observed, that if the principles recom-
mended by Mr. Bold were adopted at all, he thought the
addition suggested by Mr. Rvbinson would only operate
unfairly as regarded foreign vessels. He should vote
against the motion, becanee he did not think such a body
as that ought to act in opposition to the course which
their sol cher had ree mruended as the most expedient
After some further conversation, in which Mr. Smith,
Mr. M. ndell, and other gentlemen joined, a division took
place, whe❑ there appeare] :
For Mr. Bold's motion : Messrs. Clint, Holme, Bold,
Behead, Anderson, Barber, Ronnthwaite, Rathbone,
Smith, and Lockett —lO.

AgiOnst : Messrs Robinson, Mondell, and. Turner-3.
The motion was therefore carried.
In the Marine Department a chart was produced, showing
the result of the survey of the river just completed, and a
report from the Eurvt yor upon the subject. it was stated
in the report that, considering a period of five years had
slap ed since the last survey, the changes were less consi-
derable than might have been expected.
Mr. MONDELL suggested that the survey should be con-
tinued to the extreme point of the port up the river
aamely, to Runcorn and Warrington Bridge.
The CUM/IRAN said such a rep.)rt was being prepared for
the Corporation, and the dock secreary would mike
application for a copy.

DOM PINES.
The following report was read from the Sub Committee,
appointed some m maths since to consider the whole ques-
tion of dock fines :
=PORT OF A SUB-CoI_MITIEE APPOINTED T) COMIDER THE
WHOLE QUESTION OF DOCK FIBS, As IMPOSED BY THE
DI CIE ACTS, AND TO REPORT THEREUPON To THE GEIsTERAL
ComuiTTRF.

Your committee have to state, that having met and received
tile evidence on the question of dock fines, from several well-
known merchants and brokers engaged in various branches of
trade, they now beg to submit to the general committee ccrain
auggestiors, to accordance with which parliamentary notices
nosy be given, to ciiable the new board to obta;n powers to
alter the present system of levying dock fines.
The evidence they have taken can le perused by the mere-
kers of the commiree, and a digest of it is alrecdy i❑ their
possession. To ensure the moo perfect candour in the rep!ies
to some of the questions, the parties were assured that their
evidence was in'ended for tt e use of the committee only.
The opinions of the nej eity of the witnesses were,
First Contl'Anna'ory of the present mode of laying infer-
niations by the police, and recommending, in lieu of fines
levied by the magistrate, the adoptio❑ of a fixed penalty rnt,
and,

Second—Rlvcurable to the Appointment of traffic managers,
*hose duties shall be--'o exercise some control o‘er the dis-
charge of vessels; take cognisance of the proceedings of the
waster-pr:t rs, lumpeis, and their men ; arid to assess the
penalty rents (.according to a scale to be fixed upon) to be
cflarged on goody which [main on the quay beyond a specified
dina.

The committee suggest tb it parliamentary notices be given
o enable the new board to otrain the following powers—vz ,
To appoint :Filth maul/gets, who shall have authority to
direct informatiGns to he laid of obstunc.iole.

To put the lurnpers on board of vessels under the same regu-
iations :is th, masts[-lorters, as to giving security and licenses.
The committee further recommend that parliamentary
notices b.- given to take powers ter the carrying out more com -
pletely- of ihe pin recommended by the tn,jori,y of the
witnesses.

In conclusion ihs committee wish to remark, that in rreonr-
mending ;hat tliec notices be giv: n, they do not commit 71tern-
selves to all the principles invo:ved, but merely desire to leave
to their successors the freedom of caryir.g out the altetadons
au gges:od by the evidence. (Signed,)
JOSEPH HUBS ;CY, Chairman.
Dock Office, Liverpool, October 22nd, 1857.

Mr. RATHBONE said he had to move the confirmation of
the report in the abience of Mr. flubback, the chairman
of the Sah-Committee, who, he regret ed to say, was
prevented by the illness of a member of his family from
being present that day. There was very little to be said
upon the subject, for it was a mere recommendation to leave
the hands of their successors free, and it was not, there-
fore, necessary for the committee to discuss the bearings of
each particular recommendation. It committed them to

nothing, and it would be left to the new committee to take
action upon the subject. Al' the sub committee at presebt
proposed to do was, that the requisite notice be given,
which woul.l enable their successors to carry out the recom •
mendations given in the report, if They thoug'st fit. There-
fore, all he had to do was to move the adoption of the
report, and that it be handed over to the parliamen•ary
sub-committee and the solicitor, in order that the necessary
notices might at once b 3 given. He wished merely to add
that Mr. Hubback desired him to express, what he believed
the whole of the committee concurred in, the gratitude felt
towards the gentlemen who had come for xard to give !heir
evidence in so very candid and business-like a manner.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. ANDERSON seconded the motion.
After a short conversation, it was agreed that the report
be allowed to stand over until next Thursday, thus giving
an opportunity to members to consider the recommen-
dations fully.
THE REC*Nr VIVT OF TIIE PRESIDENT CT THE BOARD OF TRADE.
The CHAIRMAN mentioned the fact that Lord Stanley of
Alderley, the President of the Board of Trade, went over
the dock works last Tues .ay. He (the Chairman) re-
gretted vary much that he had not received any intimation
that Lord Stanley intended to visit the north works,
otherwise he should have made a point of meetieg his
lord hip, and going over the works with him. In con-
sequence of no intim ition having been received, there
was no person whateve* connecte 1 with the dock estate
with Lord Stanley on the occasion of his visit.
Mr. HoLmg : I am sorry f,r that, because he would
have seen an immense mats of land there totally unpro-
ductive.

The SURVEYOR, Mr. Hartley, raid the only intimation
he received of the visit was a letter from Mr. Laird,
asking for cards cf admission, and stating that Lord
Stanley was with him The letter conveyed no intimation
that the presence of himself (the Surveyor) or of any one
else was desires, and, theraote, he did not think it
necessary to forward the letter to the Chairman.

4.• J.J. •
The CIAIRAIAN thought when a nobleman occupying that
position came to visit the dock works, he ought to be
accompanied by some person connected with the estate.
(gear, hear.)
Mr. CLINT : E-pecially after we were treated eo very
courteou?ly, as regards the Town Dues, 13! him.
The C HAIRMAN : I am very sorry I had not an opplrtn-
nity of paying him that attention which his station
demands.

Mr. MoNnen : I think hie visit to the north dock works,
without having made an application to this committee, lays
him open to reflection (Laughter.)
The CHAIRILAN : I cannot say that exactly. *
M: MONDELL : I do not know whether he feels it so or
not ; but I would say, further, that his having visited the
docks in company with a gentleman who has so frequently
expressed himself as opposed to the progress of the dock
estate at this side of the water, be lays himself open to
reflection thereby.
Mr. BARBER said he supposed it needed no one to say
any:Ling ou behalf of Lcrd Stanley, but he really thought
that remarks, which were evidently pointed at somebody,
or something, would have been better if they had been
more definite. If it did not occur to any of the offiriale
that there was any necessity for apprising the chairman of
the visit, how could it be expected that it would occur to
the mind of any other gen leman ?
Mr. HoLme : They did not wish us to be there, sir ;
that is the fact. Wo should have bean able to open his
eyes a little.
Mr. ITARTLEY said the note he received was written to
him in his own private capacity, not as dock surveyor.
The subject was then altowe l to drop.
A. letter was read from M. Grattan, of the Royal
Engineers, enc:osing, on behalf of Col. Servants, a sketch
showing the outlines of the proposed battery at Liscard,
and the pos.tion cf the Dock Committee's bpathouse, is
accordance with the applic ticn of the committee.
Mr. BOLO : Well, Mr. Chairm m, are you much the
wiser now ?

The CuatamAN : Not in the slightest degree; and I do
not think you Ni ill be. (Laughter )
Mr. Bot D : Yell, I coull not sign my name to anything
I did not un,ierstand.

Toe CHAIRMAN : I understood whit I saw then. This
is my recollection of the ou lines.

A letter from the Inspector-General of Caitoms, calling
alention to the advantage cf having six receiving boxes,
for letters, placed in huts, on the dock quays, was referred
to the Works' Committee

A letter was read from the Chamber of Commerce,
statin that at a cor.forene held for the purpose, the
Canna in conjunction with the representative members,
had resolved to recommend the eEtablishment of an office
in London, and requesting that the Dock Committee
wonld name a day to receive a deputation upon the
subject.

The Committee agreed to appoint Thursday next to meet
the deputation.

A letter was read from Mr. Robert Tronson, secretary
to the Chamber of Ccmmerce offering himself as a candi-
date to conduct the London cffice. The letter was referred
to the Finance Committee.

A letter was read announcirg the res;gnati,n of the
treasurer, Mr G. V. Taunton, in consequence of continued
ill health, after thir-y-two years in the service of the
Dick Trust Upon this letter the Finance Committee
recommended that Mr Taunton's sultry should be paid up
to the 24th of December, and that he have a retiring alio w-
anes from that da.e of V 250 a-year.
Mr. BOLD moved that the recommendation of the Com-
mittee be confirmed.

Mr. BARBER k econded th 3 motion, which was carried
unanimously.
The regular salary of M. Taunton, it may be stated, was
£750 a-year.

DOCK DEPENSIIN ON THE LIVERPOOL SIDE.
The resolution of the Special Sub-Committee, recom-
mending that the alterations of the Brunswick Dock and
Huskis.&on Dock, as shown cn the plans exhibited, be
included in any notices to Parliament next session, having
been brought forward for consideration, the folio wing
memorials and communications were reed in connection
with it :

TO Till MAILMAN AND COMMITTEE OF TEE ESTATE OF THE
LIVERPOOL DOCK TRuSTEES,
The Memorial of .Merch,tnts, (shipowners, Smelters, and
others interested in the Trade .of Copper and Silver
Ores,

SIIEWETII,—That great inecnv-nience has been exper'-
enced, and loss sustained, by the very insufficient dock
accommodation for this branch of the commerce of the port.
That the Harrington Dock, where the whole of the trade
is carried on, is so inconveniently situated, and the water
space so small, containing only an area of 3,740 yards, that
one half of the vessels that bring ore to this port are unable
to enter it, and as they are generally bitted by the charter
party to deliver the ors at that dock, the shipowner has to
incur an ex'ra sum for lighterage and porterage, to say
nothing d the river risk incurred by the transit fr.an dock
t) dock, and the waste in transhipment.
That, when vessels do enter the deck, it is absolutely
necessary to discharge them as soon as possible, the leakage
being so perceptible on so small a body of water ; and, were
it not for the deep mud bottom, serious injury might arise
from the vessels constantly taking to the ground.
That, at the present moment there are no less than three
vessels, with copper ore on board, the owners of which are
sending the ore, at their own expanse, to the Harrington
Dock, in lighters, rather than wait the delay of the spring
tides, the only time the larger class of vessels can enter this
dock

' That, the width of the dock-gates is only twan y-nine
feet nine inches, miking it impossible for tinily of the
vessels, now engage-I in the trade with the west coast of
south America, to enter the dock, the Australian and
' Canadian vessels being quite out of the question.
That, your own returns will prove to you the enormous
increase of this branch of the trade of the port; and,
without troublirs, you with statistics (which we can
readily furnish if necessary) we will merely mention tha-,
with all the iucoriveniencas attached to the Harrington
Dock, the attinunt of tonnage has doubled that of the
Toxteth Dock, althoush with a much lees water spice
available.
That, owing to the want of accommodation, several have
latterly been sent to Swansea, which would otherwise have
come to this port. and that ths harbour commissioners
and other parties interested are etrennously exerting them-
selves to give every facility to shipping frequenting the
port of Swansea.
Your memorialists, therefore, respotfully submit the
necessity of your applying, in the ensuing parliament,
for powers of dock ext_nion, to ensue you to give
irereased facilities, not only to the partcuiar branch of
trade in which we are all interested, but also to the general
commerce of he por.
Liverpool, 28th Oct., 1857,
(Signed)
Toil, Naylor, and Co. ; Newton, Rea'es, and Co. ; W.
J. Ravenscroft and Co ; Dicksons, Boardman, and Co. ;
R. Lockett ; for Williams, Foster, and Co. Richard
Gilbert ; James Forbes and Co. ; E. Johnson, Son, and
Co. ; James Lewis ; H. J. Euthoren and Sons ; Bounells
and Co. ; Graham, Kelly, mid Co ; Gibbs, Bright, and
Co ; W. J. Myers, Son, and Co. ; J. Prowee and Co.;
'
John Bibby, Sons, and o. ; Nicholson and W. Gill ; L.
Zwilcheabart and Co. ; Kendall BrAhers ; William Ford
and Son ; Joseph Cornish ; Brice, Friend, and Co. ; Allan
and Gillespie; Cotesworth, Lyne, and Co. ; Larnport and
Holt; Bates, Stokes, and Co. ; Bushby and Edwards ;
Imrie and Tomlinson ; per Joseph Hegan and Co., John
Crowe ; Thomas Manning and Co.

TO THR CHAIRMAN AND MIEMBNRB Or THE DOCK COMMITTER,

engaged principally in the Mediterranean and Levant trade
having observe I that it is the intention of your committee
to apply to parliament for powers to raise money for the
purpose of extending dock accommodation, beg most re-
spectfully to call your attention to the notorious fact that
extension of dock aoc ,mmodation is far more necessary for
the general purposes of the commerce of the port on the
Liverpool than on the Cheshire side of the Mersey. So
fr.r, indeed, as the Levant trade is concerned, the proposed
extension on the Cheshire side would be of no avail what-
ever, whereas increased dock accommodation in Live-pool
is imperatively demanded, more especially for the large
steamers now trading to the Mediterranean.
We venture, therefore, most respectfully, to urge upon
the Dock Committee that, if further moneys are raised for
dock purposes, they should be employed in increasing the
accommodation on both sides of the Mersey, but more
particularly on this side.

(Signer)
Papayanni and Mnssabini ' • Vianna, Chapple, and Co. ;
Geo. Lowthean and Cross ; Argent, Nubuari and Co ;
James Moss and Co. ; John Fowier ; Caseuvetti Bros. and
Co. ; P. Z. Rodocanachy ; Lamport and Holt ; Tirangiachi
and Rodocanachy ; Pro Stephen P. Schil zzi (D. E. Petro
cochiny); Pro Lasssaridi and Co. (D. N. Fachi) ; D S.
Mavroyordnn ; G. D. Neroutsaz and ; J. P. Schilizzi
and Co.; Giannsvpul) and Cothilani ; Pro D. Pappacalo
(N. Pappacalo); G. Eustratiadis ; G C Gslatti ; Greg )-y
Tymbae ; P. Nom'co and Co, ; Constun and Pappa ; M.
Georjalad •' Pro Cavafy and Co. (N. Staveinachi); Pro
Roducanachi, Sons and Co. (a.. Vasto); A. S. Agelasto ;
Pro Zizini Brothers .(Z. T. Rodocanachi) ; Pro Frangapule,
Bingham and Co. (Fred Bingham) ; J. Vittori ; Bali and
Co. ; George Psicha; Minnlus, Zadginson and Co. ;
Spnrbils. and Co. ; Msvrochefalo and Co ; Carpi Brothers
and Co ; Geo Badenach and Son ; W. H. and A. H'ggins ;
Wm. Porter and Co ; F. V. Aractitiny and Co ; John
Bibby, Sons and Co ; Danderry and Vande-za ; P,o
Blymino nd Accito (H. Miler); N. Fustana, and Co. ;
Bahr, Behrend and Co. ; John Glynn and Son ; Pro
Scan/cc-1 Brothers (William Akers) , Edmund Preston ;
Bawesq Stephan ; G. D Gsspariany ; Caleb D. Watson and
Co. ; M‘Nari and Dutton.

LIVERPOOL.
Gentlemen—We, the nuderoigned merchants in Liverpool,

THE NORTHERN TIMES.-LIVERPOOL, FRI DAY, OCTOBER 30, 1857

Coltart, Son, and Co ; R. Morrow, Sons, and Garbutt ;
Fernie, Brothers, and Co.; and Duncan Gibb.

TO THE COMMITTEE OF THE LIV,RPO9L DOCKS.

Liverpool, October 28, 1857.

We, the undersigned, ship brokers, loading vessels with
general cargoes at this port, beg leave to point out to you
the great ir:convenience we suffer from the difficulty of
procuring berths for ships, having on all occasions to wait
several days, and at times a week or more, blfore we are
accommodated with even a second or outside berth.

We consider the dock dues payable on the outward
cargoes to be such as entitles ns to ask you for improved
accommodation, with as little delsy as p issible, by extend-
ing the docks on this side of the M rsey.
(Signed)
Imrie and Tomlinson ; William and James Tyer, pro James
Laidlaw ; Cotesworth, Lyne, and Co ; James Poole and
Co ; Greenshields and Co.; Ashley Brothers; Thomas and
James Harris n; Vinirg, Killey, and Co ; Alexander
Daranty and Co. ; Thomas Lougigg ; J. Michels ; G. H.
Fletcher and Co. ; James M Walihew; Bahr, Behrend.
and Co ; John S. De Wolfe an 1 o'. ' • Horatio N. Hughes;
Jamoss and Co ; H. T. Wilson and Chambers ; William
Charles Miller; S. Wright, Kelso, and Co. ; Muir and
Leighton ; Caleb D. Watson and Co ; John Fowler;
Tanton and Davidson ; Nattall, Mow+, and Co. ; George
Simpson ; Nicholson Brothers ; Joseph Yeoward ; Henry
Fox ; Santa Maria and Co ; Allen an 1 Edwards ; W. J.
Meacock ; Samuel B sker ; Nicholson and Doward ; William
H Prowse and Co; H. Wan Sauter and Co.; Alfred M.
Power.

TO CHARLES TURNER, ESQ, , CrIAIRMAN OF THS LIVICRPOOL
DOCK COMMITFEE

Liverpool, 2-Eth October, 1857.
Eir,—We, the undersigned, merenants, ship agents, and
broke:-s, engaged in the trade with the Uni ed States, beg
leave respectfully to call the attention of your committee to
the insufficiency of the existing dock accom nodation for
the daily increasing wants of this important trade, and the
urgent necessity for greatly extended dock and quay space.
It is a matter of frequent experience with most of us, and
well known to all, that v„issels are frequently detained
several days at a time, bath f,r discharging and loading
berths, and cannot even obtain the shelter of the docks,
but must lie in the river for want of room. We desire to
express our strong eonvic inn that the intended completion
of Birkenhead Docks will afford no reme iy for this injurious
state of things, those decks being, in our opinion, unsuited
to the general business of the port, and especially to the
American trade, which is necessarily concentrated on the
Liverpool side of the river.
We would therefore strongly urge upon your committee
the necessity of giving in due time the required notices of
an application to Pariiament, in the ensuing session, for
ample powers to proceed in making additional dock and
quay space on this side of the river.—We remain, respect-
fully, sir, your obedient sere nts,
Fielden Brothers and Co. ; Bowman, Grinnell and Co ;
Boult, English, and Brandon; Jacntylor and Tipp r;
Andrew E. Byrne an 1 Co ; Leech, Harrison,H- and ForTood ;
Pilkington Brothers ; J D. Malcomson and Co. ; C.
Gr.msnaw and Co.; Thomas and James Harrison ; W.
Tapscott and Co.
As to the urgent need of increased accommodation for the
American trade on this side the river —Rathbone Bros.
and Co.
We want all the accommodation on both sides—Warren
and Thayer.
Mr. JAMES HOMO suggested that the consideration of
so important a question should be taken at a special com-
mittee

The euggestion was not &lepton, and a very desultory
discussion followed.
Mr. BARBSR said that he would not wash that the
documents which had been so carefully read and furnished
to the reporters for pubUcation, should go forth without
som.3 expression of opinien as to their character. Indeed
he believed that the documents were furnished by the
different associated bodies at the special request of one of
the members of the committee, and therefore it was that
he felt specially called upon to comment on them lie
would remind the committee that the arguments for
dock extension on this side of the Mersey, contained in
the memorials, had been before Parliament last session,
and with much more force and kflaenes than could now
be imparted to them. Tney knew the result of their last
application to Parliament, and they were yet, notwith-
standing, about to renew it with less chance of suecess
than they ever had before He held in his hand a letter
from one of the largest shipowners of the part, and in that
communication the writer set forth, that during the period
of their mail contract they had often been obliged to send
their vessels out of dock several days before the th y of
sailing to prevent her being " neaped," and that if they had
proper deck accommodation at Birkenhead they need never
have recourse to such a praceedirg. The writer also
alleged that the overcroarding of the Liverpool docks arose
from the uncertain character of the acccmmodation, and
not from want of water space. It was no unusual thing to
see numbers of large American vessels lying in the river,
waiting for spring tides, and then there was a simultaneous
application fur berths, and oat o' that arose the idea that
teem was a waste of water space in the do_ks. In conclu-
sion, the writer expressed his astonishment how Mr.
Hartley could go on building docks in such an exposed
position as the north shore, and urged that improvement
should be directed to the south side.
Mr. ROBINSON asked for the name of the writer of the
letter.

Mr. BARBER replied that he Mt disposed to do just as
hs liked on that question. He would, however, say that
he was prepared to endorse every word cf the letter, and
would repeat that everything contained in the memorials
had been already said, and with no success, in Parlia-
ment. They should know that Parliament would not
grant them any further powers for woks on this side of
vets river until they were satisfied as to the committee's

intentions with regard to Birkenhead, acd least of all
would an application on this side of the river be successful
now, when, sir ce they were la,t, before Parl'ament, their
tonnage had decreased 80,000 or 100,000 tons in the first
nine months of this year. He would ask, would they, in
the face of that fact, fritter away the money of the trust
in Parliamentary c mtest, when they had nothing
new to urge in support of the application, and when they
would obtain nothing but " snubs" (laughter) and defeat.
He would confess that the memorial from the American
merchants surprised him. He himself was conversant
with that trade, and he considered the Birkenhead docks
as suitable for it as any in the river. In conclu‘ion Mr.
Barber again repea'ed that any application to Parliament
for dock extension on this side of the river would be
fruitless until the Birkenhead estate was first developed.
Mr. BOLD moved that the resoluticn of the sub-
cornmit'ee be confirmed.
Mr. ROBINSON seconded the motion.

Mr. Loma? thought that is justice to the merchants
and shipowners of the port, the documents then before
them should be first considered before any decision was
come to. As to Mr. Barber, before that gentleman made
any statement he should first be perfectly satisfied
of its truth. M-. Barber said that the diff,rent
associated bodies had been induced to send in
those memorials at the request of a member of
the committee, and in that statement he no doubt Minded
to him (Mr. Lockett). Now the fact was, that he had
been asked by various interests how the merchants and
others could express their opinions on this subject, and in
reply he Eimply advised them to state their wishes to the
committee. As to the fi ne's of Birkenhead for all pur•
roses, he would remind Mr. Barber of the evidence of Mr.
James Bibby, who, although having works at Birkenhead,
yet declared that no consideration would induce him to go
teere.

Mr. Flor.ma observed that the best course would be
simply to obtain a Money Bill, and leave their successors
to decide as to their plans.
The CHAIRMAN replied that they could not do that.
The) should, under any cirecmstances, deposit the bill and
plans

- Mr. FMITFI said that he took the memorialists as ex.
Pressing na wish against the completion of the works at
Birkenhead ; all they wished was that the works on both
sides of the river should proceed pari vassa
Tte CnIIRSIA.N observed that he could not see what they
would gain by going this session for any extended plan.
Any application for an exlencled plan on this side of the
water woul ' be very likely to defeat i a own object ; and,
besides, even if they obtained it, it would serve no
immediate practical end. Next year it would be
impossible for them even to do as much as the alteration
of the two d.,cks, and it would be, therefore, batter to leave
to the New Trust the carrying out of an extended plan.
Mr. LOCKETT concurred with the chai man They should
recollect that until they gave the timber trade accommoda-
tion somewhere else they could not touch the Branawick
Dock.

Mr. BOLD ob erved, that if the memorialists had come
forward a few years since, as they now seemed prepared to
do, all that they required would have been long since
secured.

Mr. HOL3IF contendei that notwithstanding all that had
been said in favour of Birkenhead, his conviction was, that
even if the docks there were completed to-morrow, they,
would not draw the general trade of the port from Liver-
pool ; and if they were compelled to incur, immediately,
the outlay necessary to develops Birkenhead, they would
incur a liability of which they had little idea. He would
ask Mr. Hartley what was the shortest time that money
could complete the Birkenbtad works ?
Mr. J. Hartley replied, from seven to eight years.
Mr. HOLM B asked wbitt was to become of the trade of the
port in the mew tune ? and again urged the propriety of

simply seeking for a money bill, and leaving to the New
Trust the determiLation of the plans.
Mr. BOLD asked, if the whole working part of the Bir-
kenhead docks could not be accomdlished in four years.
The SURVEYOR said his observation applied to the full
completion of the whole scheme.
Mr. HALIIRAD was quite willing to admit that the feeling
of the timber trade was greatly altered, and that with the
exception of himself, and one or two others, the trade was
in favour of the north en d. But he thought this was
under the impression that •the accommodation there would
be given on a very liberal scale as to the rates. Until
they fully koew what was to be the accommodation afforded,
and the rate charged, he did not think the men were sane
who would commit them.elves to any preposition. The
closing of the Brunswick dock, he thought totally useless.
He did not think the feeling of the trade was that it
should be divided. He urged, although he felt that he
stood nearly alone, that the removal of the trade from the
north end, would be a very serious inconvenience.
Mr. HoLmu hoped that it would not go forth to the pub-
lic, that that committee had any object but the completing
of Birkenhead. (Hear, hear.) It could not be supposed
for a moment, that a million and a half of property was to
be idle.

Mr. SMITH : We have enough of property lying idle at
this side without going for any more.
The CHAIRMAN feared the result of their going for any such
extensive schemes as the memorialists indicated, would not be
satisfactory. At the same time, he thought the memorialists
rather desired to express an opinion as to what improve-
ments would be advantageous, if attained, then to dictate
or express any opinion to the Committee, as to the extent
for which they shou:d seek in parliament. He felt con-
vinced that if they went to parliament for any very exten-
sive scheme upon this side of the water, suspicion would
be excited that they did not intend to carry out the works
at the other side, in the way in which parliament intended
theta to be carried out.

Mr. MONDELL said he had always advecated the
appropriation of land, on the east side of Huskisson dock.
for steam purposes. The steam trade occupied about 42
acres of the whole dock space, e,nl if :they could provide,
as he thought they could, the land east of that
dock, accommodation for about 3GOpOO tons of
steam-ships annually, it would m-et to a great extent the
requirements of the port on this side of the water for
some time to come. It would realize at least 28 acres of
water space leaving the coasting trade in possession of the
Clarence, and other central docks. The Brunswick Dock,
as Mr. Eyre Evans bad justly said, in its present state was
available for timber, or other purposes. He fully agreed
with the Chairman; hat they should not do more than was
absolutely necessary, on this side of the water.
Mr. Skturx said Mr. Mondell would go on swallowing up
the whole of the land upon the east side for one particular
purpose, but he seemed to forget that the anticipated
removal of the timber trade implied that half the Hutkieson
Dock was to be allowed to that trade, until they could give
the accommodation it required a little further to the north.
Therefore, it was an impossibility to go for Mr. Mondell's
scheme at the present moment.
Mr. MoNDELL : They would have the Brunswick Dock,
which they now heve, in connection with the new dock,
which they shortly will have.
Mr. HALTIE4D urged that the alterations should be con-
fined to the Huskisson Dock

Alter some further conversation, Mr. Lockett's amend.
mentwas agreed to.

This elose—d the general business.

ToxrEra PARK BOARD OF GUARDIANS.

The usual weekly meeting of this Board was held yes-
terday evening, at four o'clock, at the Board-roem, Park-
place; Henry G. Horsfal, E'q., in the chair. The follow-
ing guardians were present—Messrs. Alpass, Layland,
Miller, Batten, J. Harrison, J. Wilson, Robinson, and
Pickup.
From the report of Mr. Gough, the Governor of the
West Derby Union, it appears that the number of paupers
chargeable to the Union for last week was 370, of which
4 were able-bodied men, 67 old and infirm, 32 boys under
sixteen, and 41 under nine; 31 able-bodied women, 103
old an 1 infirm womcn, 35 girls under sixteen, and 36 girls
under nine, infants 12 —total in Workhouse this week 362,
in Hospital 35, admitted 4, discharged 3, died 2.
The Board then next went into the applications for out-
door relief ; and, amongst the applicant•, were some
females who were very well dressed. This portion of the
business having been disposed of, Mr. Cleaver, the Clerk,
read the minutes of the last week's proceedings, which
were confirmed

The weekly routine bu,iness was then transacted, and
there being none other before the B )ard, the meeting
adjourned.

MUSPRATT'S DICTIONARY OF
CHEMISTRY.

The publisherof this unrivallei work has received
the following vary complimentary note from Dr.
Campbell Mot fit, the first technological chemist in
the United States :

"Dear Sir—The copy of the first volume of Dr.
Muspratt's treatise upon Chemistry applied to
Arts and Manuractures,' which y.:u so kindly sent
to me, has been received ; and now, ia gratefully
acknowledging your distinguished compliment, I
take the opportunity to express my humble com-
mendation of the work itself. The succeeding
numbers have realised all that was promised by the
first ; for as I was, perhaps, the earliest subscriber
in this country, the book is a familiar friend to me.
I am truly glad it has reached an advanced state, and
I hope for its speedy completion upon the present
comprehensive and judicious plan. I consult it
almost daily, ant &map with profit; as it conveys
the largest amount of information in the least
reasonable space, and, thus accomplishes for Dr.
Muspr.'at the mission of a great teacher. The
book is characterised by extraordinary ability and
genius throughout ; and the monographs, on acetic
acid, alcohol, alum, ammonia, balsams, dyeing,
chloroform, ether, cobalt, and copper, are particu-
larly impressive, as faithful expositions of these
subjects in all their important details; It will
continue to be, as it has been, my pleasure to
bring it to the notice of our manufacturers as the
very best and most elaborate guide-book in
technical chemistry.—Your obedient servant,
CAMPBELL MORFIT, M.D., &c.
University of Maryland, Baltimore,
October 1, 1857.