Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1859-11-11 00:00:00

WOVEMBER 11,

TOWN 'COUNCIL

Mr. SH3I4. moved 'that The committee should confine
''themselves for the next year exclusively to the improve-
ment ,of the borough.; and he .stated his reasons for.
IN
YEST E R D AY. . doino-sowas, first, that the proposed proceedings of the
e
/Nem adjourned meeting of the Council was held - committee would producene
benefit, but, on the contrary,
NV, in the Corrncil-chamber at the Town-hall. must be a waste of the publicion They had those
y.they
dap,
(T. D. Anderson, Esq.)-presided. meetings, and then for some months had no meet-
Al/lad„ R. GLADSTONE AND THE ALDERMEN. ings at' all. At the 'first meeting the borough engineer
was ordered to prepare plans, and those plans were sub-
ke,,,,,,vrinaii PARKER. said—Mr. Mayor, before the corn-
sequen ytl laid before them. Now, these plans were eoli-
th, 'lllent of the proceedinn to-day, I beg leave to call atter, • dto two boulevards, one running on the one side, and
Necon-
attention of yourself ancethe Council, sir, to an attack fined
other upon the'other side of Newsham-house, and on
upon absent men in this room yesterday. tack the
ground he 'objected to them. But he had much
piFaation, and cries of " No, no.") Bat I say " Yes, -'
stronger
reasons
of objection to those outside roads
toil sir. (Cries of " No," and " Yes.l If lam
tli!! and if I am not
at liberty to defend my character be •and
'which he believed to impracticable inexpedient,
and of no benefit whatever, even if they were carried
lint such attacks, the Mayor will put me right. out ; and he did not think they could. On looking at
0' JEPPERY I this •
Nee f._ s in order, Mr. Mayor,in the ab- the town, and he appealed to any man acquainted with
„0 air. Gladstone ?
the town, , that it was in a most deplorable state in every
Ik errnitu COOPER—It was in the absence of the ' point of view, Whetthey , Whether regarded it in the morality
th, 11011 that Mr. Gladstone did not scruple to make tt,, 7 •of the people, their comfort, or their health, it would
)(I cc (Hear, h )
. ear.
• Jt be seen that there was an - amount of evil to remove
kt art, PPERY—Pardon me, sir. The gentlemen were which it was their bounden duty to have removed, at
oerreen then. (Cries of order.)
t'aß 'uerrilan any expense. While that was starlit.- them in the face,
, e ,11., PARKER—I wish to draw attention to a he could not see why they were to gobtwo or three miles
'Nay. u. Cowardly attack made on' the aldermen yes- out of the town to construct roads which could be
AL k of no use whatever, as it could not be expected
be
dth TOR—Allow me to say that I was very sorry that working people, who were engaged in work-
-I.lltio_ at Air.*Gladstone indulged in the personal ob- in.. or looking for work, should occupy a number
t'twaii hone that he did yesterday—(hear, hear,)—but as S''
of hours each day in going to these boulevards. But to
541 the first speech that was made after I entered this the boulevardsthemselves, they would first
tr as ata . come to
tEe diseyor , and as I was anxioui not to interrupt to buy the land,, and then lay out a great deal of money
2'aula7,l°ll, I did not , say anything. (Hear, hear.) in making the roads. Then be would ask, where were
7 t,,d7 Alderman Parker, as Mr. Gladstone is not they to get the money ? and of course, Mr. Earle would
')lire 0,2 L if lie would, 'at any, rate, postpone tea say, out of the pockets of the people. He had no
41dert1171°n. any remarks that he wishes to make. ••
obeckon to gentlemen putting their hands into their
ktve me
~ 4 PARKER—Well, Mr. Mayor, if you will pockets for such a purpose, but he stood up
, 18,iin aPPortunity at another time, when we meet there to save the pockets of those who had nothing
attvall be very glad to defer to your suggestion. to spare beyond the absolute necessaries of life.
1.441,‘, uK was an unmanly and cowardly one.
SetiL—sir, I hope this Council will not be He appealed. toon anye genatiteLnalotnomn
Committee,
or
rVaatneyh
.t,')., by you to anything of the kind. It would be moemgimstirateee, wtro was a member o'' the Council, when
Ni7ligly undesirable if you allowed anything of this they considered the number of poor people who were
4041'. Pass to-day, and then be brought up for discos- brought up for the non-payment of rates, was it not a
,if4lereafter.
hard case to ask them for money for what they could
Aiierraan PARKER--It rests with the Mayor.
not pay, and he thought they ought not, under any eir-
%o enuan s
donet, AMUEL HoLun—Sir, I fancy I shall be cumstances, to levy a rate on them for anything except
40 Parties included la the remarks made by- Mr. of absolute necessity, and for the benefit of the people,
k ~,•_ Yesterday ; but I wish distinctly to say that, which was not the case with those boulevards. He
lie 41:(? taking part in public affairs, unless an attack ' ,
would direct attention to, the houses of the poor, in order
8,4,1e1i01a my moral character, or personal honesty, ' to throw light upon their habits, so that the poor might
itkk that °t deem it necessary to take notice, of any- improve by observation. He would open the streets as
A.'ti,:was said of me. (Hear, hear.) I dare say, ' far as he could, so that the poor might be in the position
41)a
.iladstone spoke under excited • feelings,' and of those who were better off. He would obtain for .them
'L Nvoald have been more courteous if he had
tsok ea his c, . the enjoyment of fresh air, and for that purpose they
4,t ; but 4r-marks 'until the gentlemen came into the had the landing-stages and the marine parade—a place
I, disi4,,,, 'he thing has been passed over, and I would
ill ,er r of recreation such as no seaport in the world had. The
5f fillre , emarks -which, . if, unjust and ungenerous,
thet Ictlowirom personal experience, marine parade presented a beautiful and diversified view. and as we must all They had a fine river with a view of the opposite shore,
k ' thy' 40 more injury to the gentlemen uttering
erete with a scene always varying ; and that, they wished to
km spokt the gentlemen against whom the remarks pass over, and go on with a vague scheme that was
Clads toe,' (Hear, hear.) I shall not take any worth' nothing. He had shown to them that their
kiti 4;
0..0 of them, but if attacks are made by Mr.- boulevards could not be made without expense, and
thrlks 441 by anybody else in this room, which are many other things objectionable; and he had shown to
kekonie' Imjust, I shall reply to them on the spur them that 'they could secure fresh air for the
Oth. ,/, but, and so let the matter pass. (Hear, hear.) people, and recreation •for the people, and he
Al‘•".• Jes
ttiS zid Pmx—Sir, that speech is most adroitly thought he had shown that the attention of the Im-
I shall now claim my right to follow provement Committee should be. confined to opera-
Ner lolm.e. The gentlemen yesterday were tions to be carried on within the borough of Liverpool.
Yet, members of this Council, but were cancli7 He concluded by again moving that foregoing motion.
.44trita:,4erluanic seats for the next six years. Mr. Aldermen COOPER seconded it, and observed that
" -DovEn,—This is quite out of order Mr. he did so became he felt that the committee were not
justified in laying out money to the extent proposed in
boulevards. There was neequestion that it would take
a great length of time. The Newsham House estate
was now lying dormant, and they had been told that they
could not go on with the matter, for the Council had come
to a-determination to do nothing until they received the
report of the committee ; but if that were the case, how
long was that property to lie dormant. He had spent a'
good deal of his time amongst the lower classes of this
town, and he was quite sure Mr. Sheil was right in
bringing their case before the Council in the manner he
had done. He had great pleasure in seconding Mr.
Sheil's motion.
Mr. EARLE thought the discussion was,premature,
and if brought forward at all, it should have been
brought.. forward when the committee was appointed,
and he was sure the committee would have given every
attention to what Mr. , Shell mentioned. He quite
agreed with Mr. Shell's remark, that there was a great
deal to be done, but he did not agree with him when he said
they had plenty of time to deal with the outside of Liver-
pool. The committee had thought it was very desirable that
the outskirts should not get into the' same state as the
borough had got-into ; ancl they were well aware there
was land which could now be got at a reasonable price,
which if let stand until it was built upon they should
have to pay for the buildings being taken down. With
regard to what Mr. Cooper had said, he was seconding
what was altogether opposed to 'what he was most
anxious to effect' :The question of the boulevards had
been taken into consideration by the whole town and
not by the committee only. Then with 'regard to the
pierhead, Mr. Sheil 'had spoken of them being places, of
recreation, but he knew that • very few would go there
on account of the danger they had to encounter to get
to them. Then, as to the 'morality 'of the town, he
believed Mr. 'Shell belonged to the Health Committee,
and he would advise him to look after the lodging
houses, and see that they were properly registered and
inspected, and that those who did not attend to the
regulations 'were brought before the magistrates, and
punished for their neglect. A great many of the
inhabitants were Mr. Sheil's own

°R—lmust stop this discussion. (Hear bear).
11,3 t—If you please, I will stand upon my
A. 1% 4(lurcss the Council. (Loud cries of " order.")
Ayon.---.I have allowed you to go far enough,
e 441 10t permit th •
is debate to proceed any longer.
4
41'EltY—Why sir ; your own remarks .were
horde the absence of Mr. Gladstone, and—(Loud cries
and " ")

LIITINGS'rONE—
/ise to a
hII order.
at 8, —I must stop this discussion, and in
'ke 04 the Council will, perhaps, allow me to
11 'lll that observation, and to express an earnest
ught the gentlemen in this. Council will ,abstain
asf possible from personal allusions 9r per-
11011i
k ly
the attention of a speaker to that fac+
th• Personalities -
4111' to the good ft
fit ti,ltefrain from all personalities.
r bt,s time Mr. Robertson Gladstone
a. •
the Mayor :.You have allowed remarks
ohnef „a Psence of Mr. Gladstone, and I ask,
(Great '"lthess. to be allowed th follow Mr.
h 3—f",', fj?fuair sion.i, I ask that all sides may
my,right to be heard now. (Loud

'‘lr. Mayor, this is mos+
(Cries of" chair.")

inlo•orl in

g of the Conn(

that mem-
tr7. hear.)

red the

Zetiedrrnato business.
4eril 11 Kitztß—lir. Gladstone is now present,
laiPs you will allow me to go on.
bltzi kY°ll-- Gentlemen we will proceed to
,the
8 before the Council--which is the'election of the

must discontinue

debate, and

'll--=-IVell but Mr. Mayor, I want to ask 1
You said the matter should stand over to'
Mr. Gladstone should be present
0 be brought forward on anothe]

wh

kalcolt—We must

Ye It Ur

) altogi

her. (Hear,

Ethel‘rt'l'ln dr

Mr. Mayor

country peo,

e, whc

were not very n

e at horn

they had comeehere to

aught better

CORRECTION COMMITTEE.
34% 711 J. H. Tu nzrin moved the following geno2,-
~tkt It 0 Gaol and House of Correction Committee..
Llt4lll 1144/°/', Messrs. John Stewart, John H. Turner,
),'l4, „91adstone Samuel Holme, Charles Turner,
I;;lty,ohin James Holme, William Earle, James
k.ip;obe
Obert Hutchison, Richard Sheil, James
qz• Houghton,. George H. Horsfall, James
'31141u Chilton' John Rogers, Oliver Holden,
ernon.—Agreed to.
h. 74 I'I3WN-HALL ESTABLISHMENT.
144-`q z L TURNER next proposed the following
1110-`)! committee for thej Town-hall establish-
Bramley-Moore, Y.
04(?„ 11,1,i`1-ayor, Messrs. .
If all iklirner, J. H. Turner, J. A. Tobin, R.
1,411,1--Attst • Littledale, Joseph Cooper, and G. H.
kk,ir °lfs I°,l to.
.1,40 15-11 MA RE; AND MVSETIM COMMITTEE.
th. "tie d the following gentle-
v." e° )(yin' move
:—Messrs. J. A. Piston, R. M.
4tiezi lam Earle, J. Steains, Joseph -Kitchen,
."i l'e. T. Bowring, C. J. Corbally, R. C.
ison, T. B. Job, D. Rae, and William
tseq WATER COMMITTEE.
VI ton 80N proposed that the followingsg.ewntluLe-
\\Ott 1,. the Water Committee r
gentle-
\\O "draft' J. -Wagstaff, John F wortnh,,
11'11,,,e'r1.,N11. Jeffery, Jas. C ellin Thos. Verno
ivavid Rae, J. C. Lriviniston, and H. C.
t4t
Z.44BppA.Tus COMMITTEE.
NIL 1!1 til 1,4 -ls co moved'tt that tke following gentle-
James Parker, W. P.
ee• Greaves, ;in. Barton, Joseph Crellin,
3"' Thos Robinson, David "Rae,quid J. H.
qtr ktreed to
41JtIVN
tte IMPRovEmEN COMMIrrET of this
14.,01t1,,, in nominating the members
Skekt 04e, ae looked upon the committee as a very
Ode tc:41:14),„, There was scarcely a day that they did
Oa ti eitZe necessary improvement, and it was im-
r4 ~N;',t these without certain sums of money.
tdlhe 'uat th ed any argument to lead. any one to
c,,81304,18 thing could be done without money,
,4114.,,• Vilis money was expended the less it
"I),'4ge, huh respect to the approaches to he
'k
it )3 la friend Mr. Turner and his colleagues
lilt':44,thtol'ofba°4etrdichandperoapos dso improvement for
Is ndedeadmsteock, but they had
't4 l'etor th live stock, and he hoped, if a bill was
datich.444 e j
er hot lament, that some-thing would be
Passage to the Pier-head more easy
„uonbells, than at present. lie thought the
P. 141440 do a good deal as well as the Dock
101.°Pesaii ti'''br) and he thought they ought to listen
0114 /night be made. He thought it
11-041 Messrs. Hartley prepared some plan,
thitlid these (14311 ht they could do to advantage, and
foolons.idered favourably. He begged to
tee .°l94.ing gentlemen form the Inip.rove-
o' Aiki .----tuiessrs. Bennett, Stewart, Picton,
11' told'shed,
Steains, Bo wring,
ardner, Graves, Mo:ley, Jeffery, and

the subject was quite pre-

idEr
know what
14_n. Copßit. Nvislicl to
kt tt„ ?
'ceii