Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1859-12-14 00:00:00

csDzitiing antiii4lentt.

HUNTING APPOINPqN'.U.
THE CHASE.
THE CHESHIRE HOUNDS
WILL ]:LI7; ON

Wednesday
Thursday
Saturday

Dtc. 14 • I.:nont.
• Dec. 15 Teton Pink;
Dec. 17 Calvcley
Dec. 10 Church Min•3hull.
Dec. 21 Wrenbury.
Dec. 23 C !JAI' mor.doley.
• Dec. 24 Mere.
A Half-past Ten o'clock

Ntcnday.

Weduesday
Friday
Saturday

COURSING.
COURSING FIXTURES FOR 1859.—DEcEmnEn.
Brougham and Whinfell (Open), Ctmherland ; Mr. Dalzell,
14.

Hordley, Salop ; Mr. Warwick, 14..
Churchtown (Southport), Lancashire; Mr. P. Taylor, 14.
Ardrossan C. (Sharphill), Ayrshire; Mr. Patrick, 15.
Selby, Yorkshire ; Mr. S. Crandall, 13, 19.
Amicable-Club (Hampton-cotirt), Middlesex; Mr. Warwick,
15, 16.
Mountainstown ; Mr. W. O'Wens, 13, IG.
Mid-Annandale, Dumfriesshire; Mr. Hay, 1.5, 16.
Bryn-y-Pys, Flintshire ; Mr. Warwick, 19.
19.Tyne.Side Club (Kirkley),- Northumberland ; Sir. A. Daliell,
Tredegar Park (St. Pierre, Chepstow), Monmouthshire : Mr.
Warwick, 20, 21.
Chilton, BerkAlire : Mr. M'George, 21, 22. - •
Newhall Cross (Combermere),.Cheshire :Mr. A. Bennett, 22.
Barton-upon-Humber, Lincolnshire : Mr. Warwick, 22, 23.
Pembrokeshire Club (Haverford*est), Pembrokeshire : Mr.
Warwick, 27.
• Kenilworth,•Warwickshire : Mr. M George, 27, 28.
Soortont Catterick (Open), Yorkshire : Mr. Headley, 27, 28.
Caledonian Club (Open), Edisburgh : Mr. A. Da1ze11,.27" and
following days.
'Bishop's Castle, Salop : Mr. Warwick, 28.
North of England (Grcenridgc), Northumberland : Mr.
Coxon, 28.
Great Crosby, Lancashire : 29.
Chillington, Staffordshire :Mr. Warwick, 29, 30.
STEEPLE CHASE FIXTURES FOR 1860.
JANUARY
2 Jersey
FRBLATARY
Carmarthenshire.7, 9 I Tcnby
Derby Midland 03

Manchester

.4 I Aberystwith.24,. 2G

,28,1 Grand Military
I (N'thampton) 29,30
MARC/I.
Tenby 1 I Pembroke Animal I Coventry 14
Birmingham ...12, 13 13

SIP. WATKIN WILLIAMS WYNN'S HOUNDS
WILL ILIEET ON
Wednesday . Dcc. 14 - Cloverley,
Friday Dec. 16 %lalpas,
Saturday Dec. 17 Lightwood Green
At half-past ten.
Mak : Sir W. W. Wynn.---Huntsman: John Walker.

: t i
hintli ntgh
rtoownlinodu
tt
ihna to
ut
rh
first
rstex
I) strongly-decryingoll e
Bell's Life, speaking of fictitious "commission agneats,,, •
tone we adopted with reference to these swindlers has .met
with the general response of the racing world; and we now,
system, draw attention to the establishment of a Subs t
cription
Club, for the protection of gentle Men, and with • .
suppression of the frauds committed by f a view to the
and ' commission' agents."
insayeslu:—ci:itiitonisofg
the advertising ' tip'
A correspondent to the same journalalso •
writes as folloWs :
—"I would caution your readers ' advertising
fraternity, styling himself C •
against one of the
~,eorge Taylor, of 4, Market-street,
Melton. This worthy professes to send infonnation'about all
the horses .n training at Mahon, but those who rely upon his
infOrmation little know that The party sending it barely knows
a horse from a handsaw. Tkere is no such person as George
Taylor, nor is there such a place as 4, Market-street, Walton,
but their letters and contributions find their way. to an indivi-
dual called Newby, in Greengate (appropriate name), until
lately a journeyman plumber and glazier, who has left off
I mending his neighbour's lights, to lighten the pockets of such
greenhorns as
-believe he can enlighten them in racing matters.
It is time the public were put upon their guard against such
impostors."
Birmingham Steeple Chases will take plaee.on Monday and
Tuesday, March 12 and 13, and it has been arranged to hold
Coventry on the following day. .
STEEPLE CHASE MATCII,--Or Monday, Feb. 20, an -interest-
ing match will take place over four miles cross country, near
Darlington, for SY) a side, £25 forfeit, between a well-known
hunter, the property of a gentleman residing within two miles
.of Stockton-on-Tees, awl Black Bess, a celebrated - hunting
maze, belonging-to Heary Denton, of flee:car. Both to-be
ridden by their owners. The betting is pretty even.
STEEPLF. CHASE Marcurs.---On Wednesday, Dec. ith, at. the
Talbot Hotel, the following sporting matches were made, to
come off over Brewood Race Course, on the 2dth inst. :---Mr.
Worrall's Hymetiwavainst Mr. Aston's Gaylass, for £lOO a
side, over four miles of a fair hunting country; and Mr.
Taylor's brown mare against Mr. Henry's Hospitality, for £5O
a side, over the same course.
The Eri»,es, in its report of Tattersall's on Monday, silts,
"The scanty muster of subscribers was drawn together per_
haps more by the purpose of ascertaining the deeision'whieh
might be pronounced on the disputed race at Croydon than by
an inclination to purste speculation on the Derby. The cre,_
don Steeplechase is, however, still in abcyanze, for, greatly to
the chagrin and disappointment of those persons who have bets
'on•the race, the stewards have pa tiered their investigation
of the.,, ease until Monday next. The odds quoted against
Umpire were taken to £lOO. The other qumations do not re-
quire cOmment, the room berg too fi-rinly aZtended for us to
a,lce:tain the correct state of he markt.t.

LIVERPOOL AND LONDON , -FIRE AND
LIFE . INSURANCE COMPANY.

Yesterday afternoon, a'.peeial general meeting of the
proprieters in this company :Was held in the,Company's
Offices, 1, Dale-street, Liverpool, to consider the pro-
priety of appointing; and if Oa determined, to appoint, a
committee, before whom".l‘lr. Matthew•Fo'rster can attend
with his. evidence, and pro've the allegations in his pare-
phlet entitled " Statement "of Facts," relating 4.) Mr.
Forster's removal from the London Board of this com-
pany. The chair was taken by Mr. J. C. Ewart,
the chairrnan of the board;. and amongst the gentlemen
present were—Messrs. J.- Y. Lee, T. B. Barclay, Gray,
C. T. Bowring, liubback, Geo. Halt, C. T. Parker, Cor-
bally, Win. l rle, Thomas Dover, 11_•ap_cker, Francis
Shand, Scholetield, M.P., Thos. Brooklebanle, G. H.
Lawrence, Hugh Hornby, C. E. 11.1wlins, Charles
Mozlcy, Woodrad', A. Thrner, M.P., J. A. Tobin, Terr,
Caine, Keightley, Harold Littledale, Mullene,ux, T. B.
Forwood, &e.
Mr. SWINTON' BOUM', the secretary, read the notice
convening the meeting.. _ _

The CH 1=4.1.N said, -in conformity with that notice,
they were-met to=day in order that they might consider
the propriety of taking any'farther proceedings, in con-
sequence of a paraphlet which Mr. Forster wrote., Since
the reply which the board had made to that pamphlet,
Mr. Forster had published another circular, repeating
those allegations, and stating that if a committee were
appointed, he was Willing to appear before it. He had,
received a letter that morning from Mr. Forster, and he
bad been requested to .real it to the meeting. It was as
follOws
:
To the Special General Meeting of the Proprietors in the
Liverpool and London Fire and Life resmance Company,
to be held at LiverPeol, 'on the'rith instant;.
GENTLEMEN,—This meeting being &pc:daily convened fir the
purpose of considering the propriety .of appointing a com-
, naittee to investigate the questions raised in my p,mpirlet, and
in the reply of the directors of your Liverpool Board, I infer
that the business of the meeting will be strictly confined to
that subject. Acting, therefore. Upon this coneluAion, all the
facts necessary to guide the shareholders is their' decision
being on record, and in their possession; and feeling that any.
risk of a premature discussion on the matters in controversy
is best avoided, as tending to prejudice .the enqui7y, I beg,
respectfully to state that it is.not my intention to attend the
meeting to-morrow.
7ilth respect to the construction of the committee, yrur
Liverpool , Boar& have proposed that it shall consist of four
shareholders, with liberty to appoint an umpire. To this
I agree.' But 'to their glut. c. s,electieg the four refe-
rees in e::estion I
pose that each pa: v I-.
from whom the other s-1.1;::: . es my personal
knowledge of the sharehe ; , :s -.. 1 ' compared a ith
that of the twenty directei-s of I. . 1 I Board, I find it
quite intposible to einch in this Besides there is
another :atal objection to this scheme.; A preliminary canvass
on the scale requisite to obtain ten nominees willing to act,
which in the case of a board composed of twcoti gentlemen
seeking a common objcict pre.sents.,no lin, was in
my case, for obvious reasons, 'wholly out of the oucstien.
; Consequently, even were I able to name ten shareholderS who
_ • would be acceptable to me, there wiould be no assurance that
any- two of them. selected, by your. Liverpool. Board would
undertake the elehei.t ri:ee propoked to them; The incon-
venience .rot 7^,eated refusals to act
need not 1.- . - InistanceF,therefare,
I beg to t• • : I.arty nu:tr.:Se;
two reilres, who , • :.intim-; as.
umpire; to whi'.'ll lie r.. ' • --I remain,
gentlemen, y,1,111"
(ST:,
London, Dcc. 12th, I.).
Now he was very sorry that Mr. Forster vas not there
that day. (Lotid.cries of "hear, hear lie thought it
would have been better—it would have been but right,
after that gentleman had sold all his shares, except £2O
of stock, and published such apimphle,,t as Mr. Forster
had done—it was but dii to all the shareholders in this
great company that he should have been there that day
and explained his views, and the objects he had view
in publishing that pamphlet. (Hear, hear, and eo:
He hoped, indeed he was 'sure, that every -.n. in -.'eat
• room who knew him, knew that he ras the last man to
make a personal attack on anyone, and therefore, as far
as he was concerned in that. mooting, no expression
should fall from hint calculated to give the slightest offence
to Mr. Foriter. Mr. Forster had alluded in his letter
to a plan" relative to the constitution 'of 'the 'committee
of inquiry. Now, he look upeu himself to write to Mr.
George Frederick Young—since Mr. Forster did not
think proper to speak to him (the chairman) after his
dismissal from the London Board—who he knew was' a
Mutual friend of Mr. Forster, and ho therefore suggested,
as being anxious to have a fair and impartial committee,
that the best plan would be for each party to select ten
shareholders, end out of those ten each party should'
select two. He communicated that to Mr. Young, and
after a week's delay he had a letter froni that gentleman
stating that. Mr. Forster had no objection to each party
naming five, out of which two shareholders might be
selected. He_ immeaiately wrote to Mr. Young,
stating that he would agree. to Mr. Forster's
• proposition, the only objed he' could have, and that
the directors could have, 'would be the - appointment
of such a Comtnittee as *nisi 'bo' free from anything,
like partisanship: , Mr.' Young wrote in reply, stating.
that he (the •chairinan); had misconceived the actual:
tenor of his note, and that Mr. Forster- did :not agree.
to five, hut that two should be proposed by each. To
that, he replied that he did not 'think that was a fair
way of constituting the committee, because- Mr. Forster
might very possibly—he did net.suppoSe that -he would,
' but he might select two partisans, and it was yeti
possible also for the -board to appoint two 'partisans;
that, therefore, it was utterly impossible for him, on the
part of 'the board, to agree to the proposal of Mr.
Forster ; and that they must, therefore, naturally fall-
back upon the shareholders, which was a fair and
' legitimate course, to. chose-a committee_ of ,enquiry.
It was, therefore, left to the shareholders -to decide
upon the' question.' As fai: hi the board was con-
cerned, he might-state that they had nbthing whatever
to conceal from the shareholders. (ear, bear,' and
applause.) They wereanost anxious for a full inquiry
into everything; and if, after any disefiSsion which took
place at the - meeting, the shareholders still considered
• that a Committee should be appointed, he could'only
say that it should receive every assistance from the
Board of Diaectort, who would 'give every information

i. Foßsur.,

relative to those allegations which Mr, Forster had

brought before the public. If the committee was
to be appointed, he should hope, in justice to the share• .

holders, in justice to the policy-holders—(hear, hear)—
, and in justice to the directors, who clid hold a very
large stake in the company, and scarcely one of
whom, at all events few of whom, like* himself, had
scarcely sold a single share in the company since he
had been a director, it was die to every one •I
of those parties that if a committee
was to be appointed
it should meet immediately,
andproceed with the in-
quiry, so as to afford the least possible delay in bringinc,
this matter to a conclusion. (near, hear, and applause.)
With these observations he would leave the matter
entirely in the hands of the shareholders, and on the
Part of the board, he was most anxious ;to give every
information that could possibly be desired; and'if, after
that explanation, the shareholders agreed to a Committee,
he could only repeat what he had already stated,
namely, that it should reccive.the cordial concurrence of
the board of directors. (Applause.) There was one
letter which had been sent to him, and. which he had
been requested to read. It was as follows :-
10, Springfield Villas, Kilburn Priory,
London, Dec.l2, 18.59.
Sir,---As a shareholder of the Liverpool and-London perso-
nally, and also in trust for others, it was My intention to have
been present at the meeting •called for to-morrow, to co-ope-
rate in any resolution that might be adopted to stigmatise the •
proceedings of Mr. Matthew Forster, and to inspire public •
confidence in. the character and resources of the Liverpool and
London, and the integrity and good faith of its management. ,
Unfortunately circumstances prevent my leaving London, but
I beg to enclose you my proxy cad that of my joint trustee,
to be used at your discretion in any manner that will promote
the best interests of the company. I may add that it was in
co equence of the strong recommendation of Mr. Forster in
!ta !lazy last year that induced myself and those I am trastee
In. to invest near £3,000 in the company.---I am, sir, your
obedient mrpant. JOHN 1.1.1.1318.
To J. C. Swart, Esq., M.P.
Mr. KENRICK, of Birmingham, as 'a shareholder,
thought the proposal of Mr. Forster was one Which
would be extremely injurious to this company at large.
He should be sorry to see the imanagement taken out of

-the hangs of the directors and put into the hands of
other pecle, whO were 'much less capable: He could .
not see anything at all in Mr.. Forster's2amphlet calling
for, an inivestigation; but
_he should ask the chairman
for.information on one or two questions. He saw in the
reply to Mr. Forster's pamphlet, that E, loss of £20,000
on railway shares, incurred some.time since, had not yet
been wipedofffrom. the list of bad debts. If that was
sa, be thought it was
.a pity that the re-insurance fund,
which was stated from time to time to be an increasing
one, was commenced before . they-had paid over all their 4
liabilities. The other point on which he would
make an observation was, that the company had in-
creased its, operations to a great. extent, and, as the
. result appenrcd, in a satisfactory manner t 3 the intercE,t--:
of the shareholders.. Bat looking at the large extnt
the operations of the company, he could not help ."
ing that some little stress ought to be 4made upon
nature of the investment 3 in. which the capital of the
company now and he thought if the directors
reflected a'_...::pan the matter, same portion of their
capital might be ..uvested in what were called first-class

securities. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. lUnDm.‘..N said, that though an original
praprieter such had ben his confidence
in the integrity e. ;eoit management of the directing
body, that this t-eo first meeting he had ever
attended ; and the object • with which he came
to-day was to say, notwithstanding all he had
heard and read, and all the inquiry he hal made, he had
seen nothing to abate his confidence in the directors, but
on the contrary to- confirm it: (Applause.) Had the
directors on the appearanee of Mr. Forster's pamphlet
wrapped themselves up in their dignity, and
"We decline to answer this, as a calumnious attack, not
merely on our judgment, but on our honour and veracity"
—there might have been some reason for calling for
inquiry. What course had they pursued ? They issued
a notice that a reply would come forth. The reply did
conic forth ; and, considering the character of the gentle-
men whose names 'were attached to it, he must say a
More complete and more triumphant reply was never
issued from the press. (Loud applause.) Supposing
they were to nominate a committee, he should like
to ask to what points their-inquiries would be directed.
They surely did not mean to go into share trans-
actions which occurred fourteen or fifteen years age ; and
if they did, it would be certainly difficult fur, them to
place their minis in the position of the min's of that
day. .At that time, the whole world was wild as.to shares,
manybellevingshares to be more certain even than consols.
Then came the -panic, and it was so sudden and unex-
pected, that the margins , were swept away:in a single
day. It might he said that they should have sold these
_Ares in the first instance, before the loss wee so great.
It was all very well to judge after it was past, but it was
probably thought that the 'pile was temporary.
The- • affair,, however, was k:iown at the' time.
He maintel.ned it„ had
_long since been condoned
by the shareholders ; and he was told at the pi-esent
moment the total loss. upon the present shareholders
amounted to about £16,00-0. There weroather points,
however, in Mr. Forstees pamphlet, which, thoagli
incidentally answered, were not
_answered as fully as the
shareholders had a right to expect. One was the serious
one, that the foreign insurance had been carried on in a

reckless manner. (Hear, hear.) This was a material
point ; and he thought the chairman should present to
the meeting the result of the foreign insurance: mpared
with the domestic insurance. It would be satisfactory
to the meeting to know that the result presented no such
thing as Mr. .Forster charged. Bat the main question
was, whether the £1,150,000, as asssets, was really
good and convertible into money ? (Hear, hear.) Now,
he believed they were so, but they were of a rrAlare that
he did .not. believe any committee of inquiry could
tiler enghly. investigate.' The shares -were ,C. 16 0,0 00..
Then there were insurances in Liverpool upon buildings
of various lair. ?a, all of which had been passed by the
surveyor and the solicitor ; and they were believed to he
as good as it was possible for such things to be. As to
the Bank of Liverpool. shares, a goode deal had been
said about this company holding shares' in unlimited
liability cOmpanies; but they must remember that their
own was a great unlimited liability concern. AS to the
foreign securities, he should like to know whether the.
committee of inquiry would appoint a committee of in-'
quirt' to go out to,New York to examine into these matters.
After all, they must , take the words of the ,gentlemen,
there ; and he ,held that the words of those gentlemen_.
were implicitly to be relied upon. Then they came to
Montreal, which rested on the 'same footing, for
£102,000 was secured in the game way, and he thoUght
they must assume that the security was perfectly good:
He confessed that £15,000 was a large sum to pay for
the'building in Australia, but they must remember that
laboeur was very dear at the, tine of, its erection. He
believed,the securities in the rising community of :Mel-
bourne were.also perfectly good. But if the committee.
went into all these matters,' they would only shoW the
. way to their rivals to make good' investments' and ceme
pete With them: (Hear,' hear...) He attended here:
exclusively in t'le interests of the company, • and in his
own interest, which was very large ; .and he implored
• the meeting not to consent' to an investigation Com 7,
flaittee at all, provided the/ chairman answered any
questions put to him in a,satisfactbry. manner, which he
had no doubt he would. - (Applause.)
Me. TEULON moved that a committee be appointed.
, He said he:did so because• there—had been un expression
of-opinion that it was desirable a committee should be
appointed, The question was, Whether the management
:of the company in, Liverpool was what that management
ought to be: He, for one, had very great faith. in' the
management of the company ; and he had great faith in
it. because, in the year 180, he remembered being
present, at a general meeting ,of the company, when the
grievances of,Mr. Forster's pamphlet ,was discussed in
public. Upon that occasion a.. sum of money was
written off • for depreciation of railway share's
held by the 'company. Therefore the matter did
net come before 'the shareholders on this occasion as
new matter. On the other hand, he thought the report
of a committee would be Of the greatest advantage to
the company. (Hear, hear.) If anything shouldi be
proved to be wrong in the management, the directors
would have the opportunity of rectifying. it. They
would all have the benefit of the labours of the com-
mittee. If, on the other hand, the committee should
.endorse the management of the directors, it would have
this effect, it would he published, and the world atlarge
would know that- the LiVerpoOl management could not
be impeached. (Hear, hear.) Under either circum-
stance, thnresult of the committee must be of great ad-
vantage to the. company. • '(Hear, hear.) They all knew
how
slight a matter injured ' the reputation of an,
individual engaged in commerce, and the same applied
to a corapany. This company had stood very high, but
they nad now come to a point. when the management,
of the company, • was
challenged, and when the company was charged by the
public press in London, with:being unsound iu the mode
of investing its capital. Under these circumstances' he
moved, that a committee of investigation bo appointed.
Mr. MOZLEY said it appeared. to him that the object
for which they were cgled.together was to consider the'
propriety of 'appointing a committee to enter into the
'subject brought forward in the published pamphlet of
Mr. Forster. He deprecated. going into particulars at
this meeting ; but he looked at it in this point of view,
that Mr. Forster had made distinct charges against the
Board of Directors, charges which he (Mr. Mozley),
believed were unfounded. (Applause.) But at the
same time, he thought 'it was due to the honour and
character of the Board of Directors; he thought it was
due to the policy-holders and the annuitants of this
great company, but more especially to th'e public, who

. .
had been- made-acquainted with - those charges, that
prompt and efficient means should be afforded to relieve
' the Board of Diiectors from that which he believed to be
an erroneous imputation. (Hear, hear.) The Board of.
Directors, in their reply to Mr. Forster's statements, had
given a direct contradiction. He would not call in
question the terms which they had used; but by the
conventional ioale the remarks made on page 23 went to
this extent,---:that they were untrue, and there -was not
one paragraph tnwhich they had not attached the same
meaning.. Whilst he would protect the board from •
charges brought against them, he did think it was due'
to a gentleman holding the position of Mr. Forster, and
dee, to the character of the board, that where they made
le elies, not in the most courteous terms,—yet it was
to Mr. Forster, or to any other individual, that an
ee:ortunity should be afforded to him to .substantiate
,i. charges. If Mr. Forster Idled —as fail he ( Mr.
~::,y) thought he would—then the board would come
i forth to the public, and its proprietors, cleared from every
imputation; and. Mr. Forster must bear the result of his
own acts, and the taint would rest upon him. (Hear,
hear.) He seconded the motion with this view, dantl to
avoid recrimination of every kind—with the view that
i the board shouldstand before the world as the organs of
! a great company—that they shou.i4. restore that confl-
dence which, he confessed, had been materially shaken
in the public mead, and afford to the proprietors that
satisfaction which they were in justice bound to do,
where charges were made which impeached either their
management or judgment. He would suggest the. ap-
- pOintment of a committee- of five shareholders, holding
not less than fifty shares in the company; that they
- should have full powers to -investigate all charges
; brought forward by Mr. Forster and have access to
-all documents, books, and papers which might be
necessary ; and further, that they be allowed to call
.. in such assistance as would enable them to report as
. early as possible. (Applause.),

Mr. Tm.a.oN said his resolution would be as follows :
—" That a committee of five proprietors be appointed,
before whom Mr. Forster-can attend with his evidence,
and prove the allegations im his pamphlet, entitled
' Statement of facts relating. to Mr. Fdrster's. Removal
from the London board of this company.' "
Mr. H. E.umn thought it was an odd course to show
their confidence in the directors by appointing a com-
mittee, the meaning of which was, that they had no
confidence in them, and did -not believe a word they
said. (Loud erics of "No, no.") Bat this was the
necessary -1. The directors had pat forward a
statement meet all the points,
cacopt as to a - , 1, which
.ho presumed.
Mr. Ewart was pr..p,11-_ He denied that the
company had' been at L:1 injarA. . Their busineSs was
increasing, and they were in a :::ore prosperous state.
He may 1, as an That this meeting,
h)..ving c..-..nflihnee in Crs, do not see any neces-
sity ix.: a corrirlitico invcstigatiOn." .
Mr. nded the amendment.

Mr. MeiLni wished to say that if this meeting was
c•.l led t...-. ether for a vote of confidence in the Board of
Directors, he did not .belieVe there was one amongst them
who would not record his vote in their favour. (Ap-
plause.) He called upon the Board 'of Directors, for
their own sake and their own character—(hear, hear,
and applause)—for that high position they h t.l hitherto
held 'in .the community -in which they lived—that they
should afford such an opportunity as would enable the
-report of the committee to be made • satisfactory to the
public at large. - If lie was a member of the board, he
would insist on a committee of investigation,,in order to.
shovi that there was nothing in the world which he had
to conceal; .and he believed that the present board of
directors wished to conceal nothing. (Hear, hear.)
He hoped the board
.themselves,Wealld. call upon Mr.
Earle and his seconder to withdraw the amendment.
Mr. C. E. 1-'o.wriNs said he should vcte for the original
resolution, utterly repudiating the idea thrown out by
Mr. Earle, that in doing. so he threw any doUbt
whatever upon the directors. (Loud applause.)
There was scarcely .one of the names in the list
of directors , which had not to him been as household
words for honour, integrity, and uprightness. He believed
if neeminittee' were appointed, that the directors would
come out perfectly blanieless in this matter--not only in
point of uprightness and honour, but in point of judg-
ment. Ile.hacl no want of confidence himself in the
• directors, but they must 'remember that the Success of
the concern depended, not upon their own opinions, but
upon the opinion of the public: (Hear, hear.)
The CHAIRMAN then rose to reply to the various
questions put to. him. He would express to the last
speaker his cordial thankS' for the ma carer in which he
had spoken of tlie chairman and directors of the com-,
panics; at the saine' tithe, it was rather an odd way of
showing confidence in the dir3ctors to 'appointa 'corn-
mittee of inquiry. • The board had nothing to conceal,
and were most anxious' that every one - should knoW
. the real 'state'ofthe concern, and it was for the share-
holders to consider whether it would be better to have
a committee, or whether,the personal explanations given
at the meeting that day were sufficient. If a committee
were decided! on, however, it should have the cordial:
concurrence of the diretors. (Hear, hear.) In reference
to the South-Eastern Stock, there never was any seereiy
about the matter, for it was mentioned in the year 1848,
and was again alluded to 'by the then chairman; Mr.
Nichol, in 1850; Who 'stated what would be .thelossnpthr
'that.stOck.: :The.shareholders then decided that the. calla
shOubf be Up,, and that the Stock should not be
sold. The money had been lent upon, not invested.
in the purchase of the Stock, which came into the
hands of the company before the great railway panic,
and it was that panic which had caused the loss upon it.
. Mr. Hardman Earle had asked a. question having
reference to the• foreign fire business, which, as stated'
by Mr. Forster in his yarriphlet, was said to have been
carried on in a most reckleSs and dangerous mariner.
He did not wish to indulge iii remarks which were
strong, and perhaps the best way to reply to such a
statement was to give the facts. Now, the foreign fire
business was commenced in 1850. Mr. Forster made no
charge at all against the management of the home
businessH(hear, hear) ;7—but he brought a charge, a
very improper charge, against the board, in connection'
with the foreign fire business. Since 1850 the foreign
fire premiums amounted to £989,620.
Mr. MoznEY—ls not this prejudging the question?
The CHAIRMAN-Oh, no. - (Loud cries of " no.")
Mr..FOI4OOD said Mr; Mozley should not interrupt
these explanations which shareholders had a right to
expect. (Hear, hear.) •
The CHAIRMAN said he was not going into the gene-
ral question whether a committee should be appointed
or not ; but certain questions having been put to him as
chairman of the company it was his duty to answer those,
or any other questions that were put, fearlessly and openly.
(Applause.) NO shareholder could fairly come to a
vote without having these questions fully and properly ,
explained. The losses on the foreign fire premiums had:
been £553,046, being about 66 per cent. of the receipts..
That included, as they were aware, the very heavy loss
at Valparaiso. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. TAtNTON—The whole loss ?

The CnAmmAN—lt includes £65,000, which is our
share of it, for we cannot put down the whole amount
until it is decided by the courts of law whether or not
we are liable. Now the loss at Valparaiso was most
disastrous, but it-was one of those accidents to which all fire
insurance offices were subjected some time or other. Even
in Liverpool they had had the Goree fire, which was most
destruCtive. In reference to the conduct et the company's
foreign business,
he would say that, at Valparaiso, that
business was conducted by the agents in a careful and a
straightforward manner. As respected the home busi-
"ness, the prenduniii were £439,837, and the losses

£222,246, being about fifty per cent. of the receipts,
and he would- pat it' to the proprietors, whether or not
these statements were proofs that the foreign fire business
had been'condncted in a reckless and dangerous manner.
An allusion had been made to their foreign . securities.
InNew York the securities consisted, for the most part
of land and baildings which had been surveyed by -a
surveyor appeinted•by the -New Yark Board;' and the
best answer he (the chairman) could give thein as to the
value of those securities was, that-in the year ISs7—one
of the most disastrous years that the United' States, had
ever gone through—the company had not' lost a single
penny by any one of those securities. (Hear,- hear.)
As to whether they were available in case .of need, he
could only say the beard had nester had the slightest
difficulty in paying any loss, nor were they likely to
have any difficulty whatever, so far as they could see,
in paying .any loss that might occur in that country.
He believed he could say the same -of their
sec-antes in Australia. They were all raported
to the hoard as of the Most sath.factory cleserip-
-tion, - and the only loss which ea had ever
made in Australia was that—stated in 1:•, reply to Mr.
Forster's -pamphlet—of £SOO, - of the
death of the borrower. (Hear,- litar.) 'Some allesioa
had been made to investments in 'the ahares in the Bank
of Liverpool: They all knew that bank, and that, per-
.haps, it was as good as the Bank of England itself. He
agreed with other speakers however, that, as • an Insur-
ance, Company,.they, should not 'invest any of their funds
in unlimited liability concerns, although the deed of
settlement allowed them to do so. That was the fact, .
or the board would not have done it. It was not right,.
however, in his opinion; and, as a proof of their feeling,
the company hail some stock in the Montreal Bank,
which the board long ago ordered to be sold; and, as
respected the shares in the Bank of LiVerpool,.the board
passed a resolution more than a year ago that that. stock
should be sold as favourable-opportunities for doing so
occurred.
A Voice—We have sold a good deal Of it.
- The- CHAT 'SAY went on to say, he had answered all
the questions which had been 'put to him. lie would
not follow -Mr. Motley in one or- two personal remarks
which he Made, 'for he had hitherto purposely avoided
anything like personal allusions at that meeting, and all
that he had to say was, that he left 'the matter-entirely
in the hands of the shareholders, and by their decision
the board would abide. (Applause.)
Mr. Tr.ur.oiv said every shareholder in the room would
be sorry that any resolution should be' considered as a
reflection upon. the board, and therefore he would add to
his motion the folloWing words :—" At the same time,
this meeting wishes to express
_the fullest. confidence in
the honour aind integrity. of the board of directors."
Mozan'y 'would' agree to the alteration, but he
must confess-that he -would like to have seen the resolua
tion left entire ,in its naked integrity, as at first
proposed. _
Mr. Fonwoo-D—l think, after the ellairmanq expla-
natieni, Mr..2lOzley feels how awkward his position 13.'
Mr. Mozary-e-I. trust nothing shall be said that shall
reflect upon me personally in any way.
The CHainalicait might be complimentary.
Mr. MOZ LEY—I thank you; 'I do not require it.
-(Laughter.)
Mr. FOII'AT, OD was surprised to hear Mr: 'Mosley
attempt to cheek the explanations which the -chairman
desired to give.-- ' 'Now, he knew -something of -fire
insurance, and. he did hope, after the explanations that
had- been afforded them, they would rally round the
Beard of Directors, and say—" Let no Londoa press,
let no envious parties whatever in any large city or cone-
munity, who envy Liverpool's prosperity., endeavour to
shake our prosperity by throwing-a reflection. upon our
• directors." (Applause.) To .his mind there was a gross
inconsistency in the appointment of a committee of in-
- 'qUiry 'Whilst, at the same , time, they placed on . record
their confidence in the henesty and integrity. of the
board. II considered that the reply of the hoard to.
the pamphlet issued by Mr. • For':,;.• was a triumphant
• vindication• of their conduct.

Mr. J. Y. LEBAhought it very le 4.1; t.:e in-
quiry ?should be prodeeded with ; :,n I:tat
could be the case in the event of Mr. declining •
to appear before-Ole committee ?: -
Mr. TEULON said if Mr. Forster declined, then the
commutee must report. to the shareholders.
Mr, G, F. Yo 7 xq, as the personal friend of Mr, Forster.
but entirely unconnected with him in reference, to his-
pamphlet had no hesitation in saying that Mr. Forster
would attend if a committee-of inquiry were voted.
The amendment was then put, and lost, and :la
Tculon•,-; motion for a committee agreed to.
Mr. 11AnD3i.ix Ea.ra.r: hoped that no gentleman would
be put upon the committee who was tinged with the
Forster heresy. (Laughter.)
• Mr. G. F. YOUNG named Mr. J. A. Turner, M.P., as.
a member of the committee. (Hisses.) He 'was not
personally acquainted with that gentleman,. but he
believed him to be a most admirable man for the office.
• The CHAIRMAN said Mr. Turner knew very: well
that he had -the highest opinion of him in every way,
but he ,would take the liberty of suggesting whether that
gentleman, being a director of the company, should he
on the committee'? (Hear, hear.)
Mr. YOUNG —A director!
The CHAIRMN-At, Manchester. •
Mr. YOUNG—Oh ! Then perhaps lam a director ? .
'Thc. CHArn3tAx'—Yes in -London

Mr. YoUN6—lndeed. Then I think I shall be able
to show you: that you have said I -am'not. (Laughter.)
Mr. J. A. TunNEr., M.P.-=—You put. the question to
me, whether I consider myself a director ► By the
nOtnination of the directors, I am a :member of the
board of management at Manchester, who are by,
courtesy called directors ; and I have learned from this
-corregponilence• that I am- removable at • any, moment
from the board of management if my course of conduct
does hot coincide with the views.a. the Liverpool board
of directors. . -

A Voice.—Very properly so too. -
The CrrAirorA:sT. —I think nry objection to Mr. Turner .
is much strengthened, for the retnarkS which have just;,
fallen from him show that he has a very strong bias in
favour of the views taken by 'Mr. Forster, (Hear, hear.)
The committee should be an impartial" and a farremn- .
mittee ; and wilt denounce at. this mectingi or •at any
other meeting, any attempt to put on the committee any
gentlemen. who I ‘l3elieve, and byhis own admission has,
expressed himself with some little bias_on this question.
(Hear, hear, and applause.) . •
Mr. lIARD3IAN EARLE—I object to.'Mr, niftier on.
another ground—that of his intimate connection with
Mr. 'Forster ; and besides, that he haS sold many of his.
shares: (Confusion.)
Mr, J. A. TURNTR, M.P.—As Mr. Hardman Earle
has presamed to assign a reason for my selling my,shares,.
I tell this meeting' that I neither chose' to consult'him
nor Mr. Forster, but my own convenience—'(partial
hisses)—as to the time at which I sold my shares,, of
which I hold considerably more than is sufficient as a
qualification for a seat at your board.
Mr. Turner's name not being seconded, the resolution ,
fell to the ground.
Mi. G. 'F. YOUNG was rising to Fpeak,•-when
Mr. EAST said, it was anything but at act of delicacy'
in a member of the London Board to come there and
threw the torch of 'discord amongst them.' (Hear, hear,
and applause.) •
Mr. Yov.)ra would not make Mr. East the judge of
what was delicate. • (Confusion.) He. scorned the 'ac-
cusation of Mr. East, and begged' to say, that as an
individual proprietor, he had' come ,there with motives
as pure as that gentleman had.
Mr. EAST .rose amidst great confusion and cries of
" hear him."
The CHAIRMAN, deprecated these. frequent personal
allusions, and hoped Mr: Young would adhere to 'the
'question before the meeting.
Mr. YOUNG—Then I move that the mover and-
seconder of the resolution be members of the committee.' ,
• Mr. TAuxToN said it was plain that' Mr. Young had
come down there to fight the battles of Mt FOrater.
His opinion was that neither the accused nor the accuser
should appoint the committee, but the shareholders
themselves—(hear, hear)—and that each member of the
committee should have a large beneficial interest in the
Concern.'. (Hear, hear,) • .
Mr. Mozley, was proposed and seconded, but that
gentleman declined to serve.. : •
Mr. YOUNG said he appeared there as an independent
shareholder, and not at the instigation of Mr. Forster.
He had both publicly and 'privately expressed his own
opinion, and stated that he had implicit reliance in the
honour and integrity of the directors.
Mr. TEULON then nominated the following gentlemen
on the • committee :—Messrs. Teulon, N. Caine, Gil-
christ, Capt. Gladstone,-Beighttey, and It. G. Wynn. -
The motion was agreed to; and amidst much con-
fusion the meeting broke up, having first accorded to
the chairman, on the motion of Mr. G. F. Young, a
vote of thanks, for his able and impartial conduct in the
chair.