The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-06-04 00:00:00

FINANCE COMIITTEC.

The proceedings of this committee contained a recom-
mendation to increase the salary of Mr. Hughes by £l5O
for one year only, and that the Treasurer be authorised to
pay such additional sum in advance. The following letter
in reference to the George Hotel, and a recent statement of
Mr. Robertson Gladstone, was also read :

George: Ifotel, Liverpool. sth March, 1857,

Sir,—l address yon, as acting trustee and manager, appeieted by
the Court of Chancery, to the estate of the late T. C. Castle, whose
two sons are interested in the business carried on in the above hotel.
The observations made by Mr. Robertson Gladstone, at a late Council
meeting, respecting the rental of the George Hotel, not containing
the whole facts of the case, are likely to have a tendency to mislead
the public, the council, and even those members of your committee
who are not fully informed on the snhject. The late Mr. Castlo took
the hotel about 13 years since, at the rent of £403 per annum. The
house was known to be in a most dilapidated state inside and out.
The late :tin Castle was always told (and so have the trustees since
his death) by our serveyor, that the rental had been fixed at
its present amount, on the understanding that the tenant was to
make all alterations and improvements at his own expense. In con-
sequence of this understanding, about .€2,003 has at different times
been expended in permanent improvements of the property. Viewing
this subject as an arrangement bet,veen private individuals—as land-
lord on one side, ant tenant on the ot:ier —I respectfully submit that,
taking into consideration the capital expended on the property, a
lease for twenty-one years, at ego per annum, would have been an
equitable arrangement for all parties ; and that its having been held
but for fifteen years, not only his the Corporate estate not been pre.
judieed, but the estate of the late Mr. Csstle will not have had ample
justice, if the same term is not extended as would have been if the
property had bean private; and I think his estate is entitled to every
consideration at the hands of the Council. Allow me to correct one
of the errors of Mr. Gladstone. The stable accommodation is equal to
21, and not 40 horses, as stated by that gentleman. May I ask the
favour from you of handieg this letter to any committee before whom
0114 subject may be brought. —I am, &c., your obedient servant,

To the Chairman of the Finalize Committee.

THOMAS MORTON,

The minutes also stated, that the committee directed
notice to be given to the tenant to quit before the Ist of
January.
3.lr.Alderman S. Holme, in moving the confirmation of the
proceedings, referred in the first instance to the recom-
mendation regarding the salary of Mr. Hughes. He said
it would be remembered with some degree of pain, that a
few Councils ago Mr. Hughes became exceedingly ill in
that room, and was obliged to be removed. His medical
adviser pronounced that his disorder partook very much
of nervousness, but he (Mr. Holme) believed that some
degree of paralysis was likewise connected with it. The
absences of the Town Clerk, in consequence of bills before
Parliament, had been for the last two or three years very
frequent, and increased duties had therefore been
laid upon the heads of departments, in the ser-
vice of the Corporation, and very mach heavier
responsibilities had been incurred by these gentlemen.
The town clerk bore testimony to the zeal and alacrity
with which the business of the office had been carried on
during his absence, bat the weight of the business having
fallen very materially upon Mr. Hughes, he had broken
down under it, and his health was now exceeding!y bad.
It was feared from the letter of Mr. Long, his burgeon,
that it was almost a life and death matter with Mr,
Hughes. Mr. Long stated that change of air and scene
was abeolately necessary to him, and the committee
therefore recommended that leave of absence should be
given to Mr. Hughes to go to the sea side, or in case of
need, to some of the baths of Germany, for the purpose of
seeking the restoration of his health. Looking at the
extra services he had been callen upon to perform, and the
late hours which, in consequence of the increased weight
of parliament ,ry and other business, had necessarily fallen
upon him, and believing, after inquiry, that his health had
given way in consequence of increased services and res-
ponsibilities, the committee, without asking the council
to make any c ,ntinuons addition to his salary, recom-
mended an addition of £l5O for this year only,
in consequence of the extra services he had performed
and to enable him, as he had a large family to maintsin,
to go to the seaside and seek for a restoration of the
health which the committee believed he had to a great
extent lost in the service of the Corporation.
Mr. Earle had great pleasure in seconding the recom-
mendation.

Me. J. B. Jeffery regretted that a sense of duty com-
pelled him to oppose the motion. It involved a principle
which he trusted the Council ,rould not sanction. If it
were the desire of the Council to make a present to Mr.
Hughes of a sum of he could understand it ; but to
advance his salary for cne year appeared to him to be only
grantin3 £l5O by a side-wind. That might not be the
intention of the committee, but that was the manner in
which it presented itself. If a gentleman receiving £450
a year shculd be in a condition to require a gift of £l5O
from the Corporation, because he was indisposed, from
whatever cease it night be, he eh raid ask where were the
Council to stop, and to whom were they to give a negative ?
They certainly could not refuse an application from
any seevaet of the Corporation reeeivine less than
£450 a years if he could show tiv;t from indisposition he
was unable to attend to his duties, and required to go
from brine for the benefit of his health. He was not
prepared to say whether it was by over working that Mr.
Hughes had brought himself to his present unfortunate
position, with which every member of the Connell must
sympathise ; but, involving as this motion did a serious
principle, he thought it would be far better that gentlemen
sympathysieg with Mr. Hughes should mike up a sub-
scription individually, and present him with a purse.
That would be a far better mode of showing an apprecia-
tion of his servius than to lay down a precedent which
they might be called upon to apply, they did not know
how often, under similar circumstances. He should, there-
fore, move a direct negative to the motion.
Mr. Beckwith seconded the amendment.

Mr. Earle was rather a3tonishel that any opposition
should have been made. He believed in his conscience
that the poor man (Mr. Hughes) had suffered in the ser-
vice of the Council. (Hear, hear.) He believed his frame
had been broken down absolutely by the weight of work in
the office. He (Mr. Earle) was rot going to talk much
cf what he did in his own establishment ; but he
might say there were two or three instances in his
own case in which he had sent young men,
who could not afford to go away from home, at his own
expense. He could mention three cases in which he had
done so, and he had great satisfaction in saying that every
one of those individuals was now in robust health in con-
seciaence of their having been seat from home when they
were on the eve, perhaps, of consumption, which probably
would have ended in death. (Cries of " Hear, hear.")
That had occurred in his own establishment, and he there-
fere thought he was only acting as he would do in his private
concerns, when, upon the present occasion, he expressed
his surprise that any gentleman could come forward to
oppose a charitable act of that kind, and to deprive a man
of the means of going away from home to recover his health
and support his family. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. Woodruff entireiy concurred in the remarks of Mr.
Earle, and bore testimony, from his own knowledge, to the
heavily increased amount of duties which Mr. Hughes had
had of late to perform.
Mr. Holme said, Mr. Jeffery had remarked that this
question itaolved a principle. It simply involved the
principle of doing in their pu'alie capacity that which any
one cf:nem would do in his private capacity. It involved
the principle of paying a servant for extra services by
which his health had been broken down and
and he trusted
the Council would affirm the principle unanimously.
Mr. tnought it exceedingly bad economy of the
Finance Committee to overwork a man, and to aestr.7 his
health. (Hear hear.) Any person of experience would
agree with him that work which was done in that manner
could not possibly be effective. A sufficient number of
persons should be employed, to have the work properly
done.

The Cuuncil then divided upon the recommendation of
the Committee, when there appeared :
Fer,—The Mayor. Aldermen : Bennett,
William Preston, Thomas Bold, Thomas Dover, James
Parker, Thomas liobinson, RieLard C. Gardner, J.
Bramley-Moore, Raymond W. Houghton, Samuel
goime. Con•lei,lors: Daniel Crosthwaite, Richard Shoji,
John Wood='s.', Roger Haydoek, William Nicholson,
Charles Turner, Joseph G. Livingston, James Steains,
Harmood Banner, John C. Pernihough, James Holme,
Walter P. Jeffreys, John B. Braneksr, James Aspinall

Tobin, William Earle, James Johnson. Joseph Kitchen,
James Mellor, John Akin, Francis A. Clint, John Fern
worth, James Robertson, Hilton Halhead, William H
Anthony-35.
Against.—Conneillors : Messrs.lA.rchibald C. Stewart,
Robertson Gladstone, James R. Jeffery, Richard M. Beck-
with--4.

The recommendation was therefore declared carried.
Mr. Gladstone said, in reference to the letter on the
subject of the George Hotel, that when he made his
remarks he said he was not sure about the number of
stalls. If, however, the letter stated that only 21 horses
could be accommodated there, that was a great mistake.
It was not the fact ; and he believed a much greater num-
ber than 21 holsos had been accommodated in those
stables. The reasons which were adduced in regard to the
letting of the hotel, seemed to be the old reasons adduced
100 years ago, why everything progressive should not
be done. The parties seemed also to think that because
they had been obliged to keep the interior of the house
in order, they were entitled to some privileges, whereas
everybody who knew anything about houses knew that
the understanding between the landlord and tenant was
this—the landlord to keep the exterior in repair, and the
tenant the interior ; therefore any claim for an extension
of the lease on the ground that some thousands had been
laid out upon the interior was simply absurd. He had no
hesitation in stating that the Corporation were losing at
least £6OO a year by letting the property as at present ;
and he should be glad to bring substantial proof to a
certain extent that his statement was more than borne out.
If no other members did so, he would move that the
tenants receive notice to quit.
_

Mr. Holma said, if Mr. Gladstone had been present at
the reading of the proceedings, he would have heard that
the Finance Committee had given notice to quit.
Mr. Gladstone hoped the Finance Committee would be
a little more alert for the future. The Council had not
to thank them for that step. Whoever was entitled to
the credit of it, they were not.
Mr. Fernihough was not prepared to have a schoolmaster
always over the Finance Committee. As a member of the
Finance Committee he indignantly repudiated the attempt,
not made to-day for the first time, but which had been
made frequently in that room, to place the Finance Com-
mittee before the public of Liverpcol in a false position.
Before members of the Council got up to attack the cha-
racters of men fully Ls honourable and as competent to
discharge the duties as themselves, they should make
themselves fully acquainted with the facts. Mr. Gladstone
had stated upon a former occasion that there were 40 stalls
in the stable of the hotel. He now found that there were
but 21, but he said—what a puerile argument—it did not
follow that more horses could not be put in there. No
doubt two horses had been put in one stall many a day.
Mr. Gladstone distinctly stated that there were 40 stalls, at
£5 etch. Now his gross ignorance upon the subject was
exposed, and he endeavoured to qualify his statement, and
to get out of it.. He contended that it would be a better
and more manly course to propose a motion at once to turn
all the members of the committee out, than to
make continual accusations against their character
and capacity. The committee would have brought
the land in question into the market some
time ago, but a delay was involved in order to get a second
frontage to the property. There was a great depth from
Dale-street, and if the committee had only the frontage in
Dale. street, the back land would be reduced in value ; but
by negotiations with Lord Derby the committee would be
enabled to get a frontage in Hackin's hey.
After some remarks from Mr. Sheil, Mr. Alderman
Parker, and Mr. A. C. Stewart,
Mr. Holme explained, that the committee conceived the
value of the land would be greatly enhanced if they could
obtain a block of property a joining, belonging to the
Earl of Derby. Negociations were opened which were
very nearly brought to a termination, and he trusted that
within a month or two, the committee would be in a posi-
tion to ask the Council to sanction the purchase.

The proceedings were then confirmed:
Mr. J. R. Jeffery asked when the chairman woul 1 be
prepared to lay before the Council the information sought
by Mr. Gladstone, in his recent motion relative to the
corporate estate.
Mr. Fernihough said, it was out of order to put a
question to the chairman of the committee after the pro-
ceedings had been confirmed. (Hear, hear).
Mr. Jeffery said, he had asked Mr. Holme whether he
would be in time if he put two questions after Mr. Ho!me
concluded his recent remarks, and he received a reply in
the affirmative.

Mr. Holme said Mr. Jeffery a'ked him whether he would
be in order in putting two questions to him after he had
replied on the subject of the George Hotel. Not conceiv-
ing that the confirmation of the proceedings would have
been passed so quickly, he hsd answered in the affirma-
tive.

The Mayor said it was somewhat irregular, but under
the circumstances he should not refuse to allow the
questions to be put.
Mr. Holme then replied to the questions. He stated
that at the last meeting of the Council, when Mr. Jeffery
was not present, he laid upon the table the whole of the
particulars connected with the tenants at will ; and, like-
wise, at the same time, mentioned that he would have the
book laid in Mr. Topping's office, so that every member cf
the Council might examine it. He was sorry to say that, not-
withstanding the manner in which the committee had hur-
ried their clerk to get the whole done, it had been lying in
the office since the last meeting of the Council, and not a
single member of the Council had been to look at it.—
(Hear, and laughter.)
Mr. Gladstone said unless members of the Council were
furnished with copies it was perfectly useless. He had
tried himself, but found it utterly impossible to obtain the
fall information he sought otherwise.
Mr. Jeffery asked if the Finance Committee had taken
any steps for the purpose of laying out the Newsham-house
estate ?

Mr. Alderman Parker objected to the question being
put, as being quite irregular when the proceedings had
been confirmed.

M. Jeffery said he had arranged with the chairman of
the committee that the question should be

Mr. Charles Turner : If any private arrangement between
the chairman of the committee, and any other independent
member of the council can supersede the standing orders of
the Council, we shall never have done. (Hear, hear.)
The question ought to have been asked befo e the chairman
rose to reply. (Hear, hear).
Mr Holme : I repudiate all notion of a private arrange-
ment. Mr. Jeffery asked me, could he ask the question.
I said of course he could.

Mr. Jeffery : Seeing the duputy•ehairman about to rise,
I went to him and asked him-

The Mayor : This is quite out of order. The subject
then dropped, and after some leases had been read and
confirmed, the proceedings of the Finance Committee
concluded•