The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-06-05 00:00:00

Mr. Bailey: Every exaction on the part of Liverpool
upon =the traffic is an exaction upon shipping.
Mr: Hope Scott : Do you Consider that the custom-house
duties are a charge upon shipping ?
Mr. Bazley : Not directly, though, no doubt, they are
indirectly.
Mr. Hope Scott : What is the distinction ?

Mr. B.azley: The town dues are not collected for the
purpose of revenue, but ire applied to local objects
entirely unconnected with the improvement of the
shipping. of the port. My own objections
are principally to the principle of the exaction.

The sound principle is, that taxation and
representation should g,) together to the fallest extent ;
that every, one who pays taxes should have a voice in the
representation. A charge of 2d per bale, exacted by the
corporation of. Livorpool, is more a charge upon shipping
then if thagrower in America charged 2d a bale additional

for shipping. The 2d paid to the American growers wouid
encourage the trade, by stimulating the growth of cotton ;
but in the present case the money is levied solely for the
improvement of the town of Liverpool. I cannot state
the total sum plid by Manchester in the shape of dues.
Mr. Hope Scott : Who pap the dues ; the manufacturer
or the merchant ?

Mr. Bazley: The merchant ; but frequently the manu-
Facturer is the merchant also.

Mr. Hope Scott : When did Manchester make its first
great start in the cotton trade?
Mr. Bazley : In 1787, though at that time Manchester
was an important manufncturing town. The improvements
which were made in the machinery for the manufacture of
cotton in 1787 gave the principal impetus to the trade,
and brought Manchester into importance. At this moment
the manufacturers export goods from Fleetwood, but the
harbour is very indifferent, a►nd would require considertole
alterations Mara it could be brought into competition
with Liverpool. Milford Haven might possibly be made
a competitor with Liverpool by means of the Great Western
Railway.
Mr. Hope Scott : Is it your opinion that the dues should
be taken away from the Corporation of Liverpool, without
any c ompensation whatever ?
Mr. Bazley : Certainly.
Mr. Hope Scott : Upon what ground ?
Mr. Baziey : The compensation ought to be the other
way. It ought to be awarded to those who have hitherto
paid the dues, and not to the Corporation.
Mr. Hope Scott : Then you think that the Corporation
have wrongfully held the dues.
Mr. Baztey : I do.
Mr. Hope Scott : And that they have no good title to
them?

Mr. Bayley : Yes.
Re-examined by Mr. Calvert : Maard Haven owing to
its advanced position in the channel is very advantageously
situated as a port. The Town Dues bear far more heavily
upon many articles of commerce in proportion to the
value, than upon cotton.
Mr. J. Aspintlll Turner, M,P , said he was member for
Manchester, and had been for many years a merchant of

that city. Was Chairman of the Manchester Commercial
Association, which was slightly different from the Chamber
of Commerce, though it had the interests of trade and
commerce equally at heart. The Commercial Association
petitioned, in 1856, in favour of the bill for the abolition
of Local Dues on shipping. The manufacturers did not
object to pay any legitimate amount of money for the
benefit of shipping in the Mersey, but they did object to
contribute to the local rates of the borough of Liverpool.
Under the existing system, the interests of the commerce
and of the corporation of Liverpool were antagonistic.
Ile did not think that the Dock Committee was properly
constituted at present. Every payer of dues ought to be
properly represented upon it. He did not believe
that the town of Liverpool would stiffer, if the dues
were done away with. Was chairman of the South Ame-
rican Steam Packet Company for some years, up to 1855.
Upon one occasion, the Brazileira, a vessel belonging to the
company, after taking in her cargo at Birkenhead, cleared
out, and when in the river took on board a few parcels of
patterns which had arrived late from Manchester. A.
demand was immediately sent in on behalf of the Liver-
pool dooks, for the whole charges that the vessel would
have incurred if she had been loaded in the Liverpool
docks ; and, in consequence of taking these parcels on
board, the company had to pay a sum of £45 3s The
result has been that no vessel will take goods on board in
the river after having cleared out of the dock._

Cross-examined by Mr. Hope Scott: Many of the
members of the Liverpool Dock Committee are
largely interested in the trade of the Mersey.
of late years the trade of the port has increaser in a
surprising manner, but there has not been a proportionate
increase in the dock accommodation. I believe that more
convenient docks could be made at Birkenhead. The
Manchester Commercial Association has not given a pledge
to pay the expense of promoting the present bill in case of
its failure.
Cross-examined by Mr. Paget on behalf of the Dock
Committee : The purchases of land for dock purposes at
Liverpool by the•Doek Trustees, have always been looked
upon with suspicion, in consequence of the Corporation
being both the buyers and the sellers. I think it may
occasionally be necessary that vessels should load and
unload a portion of their cargo in the stream of the
Mersey, but it would not be desirable that such a practice
should be encouraged.
Re-examined : if the Brazileira had remained in the
stream for four months, no higher charge would have been
made by the Dock Committee.
Mr. Isaac Penny, examined by Mr. Webster, said he
was one of the trustees of the late Mr. Smith, who owned
property at Seacombe, near Wallasey Pool. The property
in question had been seriously affected by the works
earriel on by the Corporation of Liverpool on the opposi•e
shore of the river. An application had been made to the
Dock Committee for compensation, but the committee
replied that the works were constructed under special
acts of parliament, the provisions of which had neither
been evaded or exceeded, and, consequently, they held
that they were not liable. At the present unrueut the
laud on the Birkenhead shore was being washed
away very rapidly. In 1849 a wall was
put up for the protection of Mr. Smith's property, but last
year a great portion of it was washed away by the tide,
which effected a breach six feet deeper than the foundation.
The house property in the vicinity had been considered so
much in danger that, in many cases the tenants had
quitted it. The Cheshire landowners complained that the
Dock Trustees had advanced their wall 300 feet further
than the Act of Parliament allowed. The Dock Trustees
applied for additional powers in 1855, but the landowners
opposed them in committee on tha ground of the injury
which the works already constructed had inflicted upon
the owners of property on the Birkenhead shore. The
opinion of couusel was taken on the advisability of pro-
ceeding against the Dock Trustees in common law, but
from the opinion given, it appeared doubtful whether there
was any other remedy than an application to parliament.
At this stage the committee adjourned at a quarter to
three o'elock, till 13 this day (Friday.)

IMP .E RIAL P ARLI A.MI ENT

HOUSE OF LORDS.—THurtsDAY.

The house met at 5 o'clock.

The Marquis of Westmeath laid on the table a bill
regulating bathing in the sei. The object, to prevent
indecency.
Earl Granville ►novod the semi reading of the sale of
Poisons' Bill, and in proaf of the necessity stated that
there were about five hundred deaths annually arising from
poison. _ .

Lord Campbell supported the measure.
The Earl of Ilardwieke quoted cases in 'which poi-
sons used for various purposes would.be :Toiled by the
mixture of Indigo, according to the regulations laid down
in the bill.
Lord Talbot de Malahide suggested that similar bills
should be introduced for Ireland and Scotland, or that at
least there should be regulations prohi'oiting uneducated
men from being chemists and druggista.
The Earl of Redesdale thought the bill should be re_
ferred to a Select Committee.
Earl Granville had no objection to referring the bill to
a Se!ect Committee; dais only object, being to make it as
perfect as possible.
The bill WEL3 accordingly ordered_ to b referred to a
select committee.
On the report of amendments to the Divorce and
Matrimonial Causes Bill being brought up,
Lord Brougham deprecated the amendment inserted in
committee, to prevent an adultress from marrying again.
Lord Redesdale contended that the prohibition was in
accordance with divine laws.
Lord Brougham remarked that the question had been
argued in their lordships' 1191 m, 100 years ago, Their