The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-02-24 00:00:00

TIIE DISCUSSION ON THE BUDGET.

Mr. James M‘Gregor resumed the debate. He con-
sidered that this was a financial and not a party question,
and he did not see any reason why it should not be brought
to a close without any irritating result. All that he and
those who would vote with him wished was, that the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer should take back and remodel his
budget, so that it might be made more in accordance with
public requirements.

- Lord J. Russell said he should have been content to
have given a silent vote on this question had it not
been fur the speech delivered, on Friday evening, by
the right hon. gentleman the member for the University
of Oxford. The right hon. gentleman had stated that
the Chancellor had departed from the principles of
finance to which Parliament had pledged itself, and that
he intended to falsify the promise that the income
tax should entirely cease in 1860. These were grave
charges, which he considered it his duty to disclaim and
disprove. He was in favour of going into Committee of
Ways and Means, regardless of the resolution of the right
honourable gentleman opposite (Mr. Disraeli), and he
concurred generally on the principles upon which the
Chancellor of the Exchequer had founded his budget.
(Cheers.) The Chancellor of the Exchequer had had no
ordinary difficulties to contend with. He had to check
that extravagance which, under the name of efficient
establishments, the military and naval departments recom-
mended. Then there was the feeling of the country
that the war ninepence should cease in April next.
Then there was a desire not to place any difficulties
in the way of the repeal of the income tax of 1860, and
there was.a desire also not to press heavily on articles of
consumpt on, by which he would have cramped the indus-
try, and have fettered the means of the poorer classes.
(Hear, hear.) The Chancellor of the Exchequer was in
this situation, that if he had proposed any considerable
remissions as in former years, it would have been said
that he was parting with the ways and means from which
the revenue was derived. and that he was making the
repeal of the income tax impossible. But if, on
the other hand, he had taken the opposite course, he
would have laid himself open to the opposite charge, and
it would have been said that he had not followed the
example of his predecessors since 1842, in greatly
relieving the trade and industry of the country.
But what he was the most surprised at was that
both of these charges should have proceeded from
the same person. (Loud cheers.) He thought the right
honourable gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) had given a most
imperfect and incorrect account of the policy of fifteen
years ago. He remembered at that time all sorts of people
came and complained of the withdrawal of protection ;
and his answer was what Sir Robert Peel had told them
before, that when these small monopolies were broken
down, the principles of free trade would reach the great
dealers in corn and sugar. Had the Chancellor of the
Exchequer departed in any way from those principles, or
inaugurated a new policy ? Far from it. At the same
time there were portions of his speech which he
would gladly have been spared. For instance, he did
not agree with the Chancellor of the Exchequer with
regard to fire insurance, which-he thought a most
oppressive tax. Nor did he agree with what the right
hon. gentleman said with regard to paper, because he
help that all the duties on excise were of themselves of a
most injurious nature. He admitted that it was very diffi-
cult to touch upon those subjects of revenue now when the
mind of the country was fixed upon the Income Tax. The
refusal to touch those duties under the circumstances was
very well in the mouth of the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
but he did not think it very well for others to allude to the
continuance of those duties as a meritorious act on the part
of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. With regard to the
Income Tax, he was strongly of opinion that unless some
overpowering necessity were shown, the Chancellor of the
Exchequer would not be justified in interfering with the
Act of Parliament, which ordained that the tax should
cease in 1860. He could not see that the Chancellor
of the Exchequer had interposed any obstacles in the
way of the cessation of the tax. Not only had he not done
so, but he (Lord J. Russell) should say that in his addi-
tion to the income tax of 2d in the present and two future
years, and his proposal that some further sum should be
imposed on those great articles of tea and sugar, showed
that he was not opposed to the budget of 1853, but that he
was doing his best to carry it out. (Hear, hear.) With
regard to the tea duties, a statement had been put into
his hands by persons engaged in that business, show-
ing that by the new duties the Chancellor would obtain
in the three years £13,616,000, instead of £10,400,000,
being £3,216,000 he was entitled to under the present act
of Parliament. He did not think that the Chancellor of
the Exchequer acted wisely in imposing so heavy an
additional tax upon an article of such general consump•
tion, and he hoped his proposals would be somewhat
modified. He did not think that the proposed reduction
of 2d in the pound would be of the slightest advantage
to the consumer, but that the whole advantage that would
arise from the reduction would be reaped by the wholesale
and retail dealers. The noble lord proceeded to refer to
his own estimates of 1848, which had been characterised
as extravagant," and which he could not go on with, so
great was the outcry against them. They amounted to
£53,496,541, to which might be added the collection of the
revenue and the superannuation which did not come into
the financial statement, £4,710,000, making together
£58,206,541, being £5,018,000 less than the estimates of
the present year. Under these circumstances he thought
Government might be able to reduce those estimates, more
especially with the prospects of peace before us. (Cheers.)
While considering, then, that the estimates in supply should
pass a careful scrutiny, he should give his support to the
motion for going into committee of ways and means.
Mr. Bentinck contended that the house was not in a
position to decide upon the question before the estimates
were voted, and therefore would move the adjournment of
of the debate.

Mr. Milnes defended the government, and commented
upon the speech of Mr. Gladstone.
Sir J. Tyrell supported the motion for the adjournment
of the debate.

TAM. Wilkinson supported the government, and Mr. Sid-
dell supported the resolution of Mr. Disraeli.
Mr. S. G. Phillitnore defended the government, and
attacked Mr. Gladstone for his speech of the previous night,
from which, though it lasted two hours, he had been unable
to gather the right hon. gentleman's opinion.
Mr. Whiteside observed that the income tax was looked
upon as odious and revolting from one end of Ireland to
the other, and the object of Mr. Disraeli was to provide
for its removal in 1860.
Sir F. Baring remarked that the deficit which it was

stated would accrue in 1860 should be Considered
connection with the reductions on tea, sugar, coffee,
and malt, which the Chancel or of the Exchequer had be!
called upon by acts not his own to make. There w. :t
great difficulty in reducing expenditure, but that was a 1
which would occupy the attention of the house in the Deb
two years, and be saw no reason to apprehend 01
barrassment to the finances of this country in the yearlB
Mr. Walpole concurred with Lord John Russell in hat
object in view, and in the means to the attainment of We
object, but differed from him in his conclusion. 40
object was the removal of the income tax in 1860, told 'hi,
means for the reduction of expenditure ; but the floe,
lord's conclusion was that they should go into commit`"
He contended from the fact that the British al
on landing in the Crimea, was larger than the French Orb.
at the same period, and from the relative position of
two armies at the close of the war, that the nation bus
ing its resources in a time of peace was more able to allotl
an arduous and protracted struggle than one whosestreofili
was expended in unnecessary forces in time of peace. q
recommended large reductions in the army 11
. and 5,
estimates, and also in the civil service and miseellaneo;
estimates, and until they had voted the expenditure fot tui;
ensuing year, he declined entering upon the discussion lir
the income tax question.
• a; int°
Mr. Cardwell supported the motion for goinb. „to:
committee of ways and means. No doubt, he said, ;he,
supporters of Mr. Disraeli compared the revenue of jci
three next years of peace with the expenditure of Yell'ed
e war, there wuld be no doubt a deficiency shown ; but
tare,
should compare revenue of peace with peace expellditaie
If they could bring down the military estimates
the approaching years to sixteen er seventeen tailli°d
there would be n 6 prospect of financial embarrassmellttioo
he contended that years of proposed peace was fte
hopeful.
Mr. M. Gibson condemned the scheme of the ChaDee,i
of the Exchequer especially in regard to the tea and 85
duties, and stated his belief that if the House gale
sanction to the proposition the Chancellor of the Eso"os
quer would have in a few years to come down te ..,
liament for increased taxes to meet a deficit. ji
did not believe that by any arrangement that could beta
consistent with the interests of the country that the 'Old
tax should be remitted in 1860, and contended that it w°_,A
be better in that year to remit an equivalent of indir!:,
taxation. In conclusion, he stated his intention of vor,
against the speaker leaving the chair, with Mr. Disrselot;
and, if that were placed as a substantive motion, to

against it in its turn.
Mr. Newdegate was not prepared to vote in favour of is rto
duction which could not be justified, nor was he prePsr, he
sanction the Chancellor of the Exchequer's scheme,
had had an opportunity of seeing the estimates. tile)
Sir Charles Wood justified the course taken bi
government, and dwelt upon the inconvenience to bid
before
the house was put by amendments being interposed of
going into committee, which shoud more pro el
have come under consideration when the oP sr,
had left the chair. After some explanations betweeLds
Gladstone and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the P,t. o,
divided upon the question for the adjournment of the (Jou'
The numbers were-
-26
For
Against 471

Majority 2il
The house then immediately divided upon the
question. The numbers were—
For going into committee . 296
Against ....

Majority for the Government BO
The announcement was loudly cheered. t thi
The house accordingly went into committee, ba
chairman was immediately ordered to report progress.
MISCELLANEOUS BILLS. ?On°
The lonian Subjects Commission Bills and the
Health Supplemental Bill were read a third time and pslio
The other business was disposed of, and the hi;
adjourned shortly after one o'clock.

PENINSULAR MAILS'

(FROM OUR OWN CORRESPOL`YDENT.)

[By Special Express.]

SOUTHAMPTON, MONDAY'
The steamship Alhambra, of the Peninsular 11',/,
Oriental Steam Navigation Company, Captail.
J. Woodgates, with the usual Peninsular
charge of Lieut. W. Shaw, R N , Admiralty Age"
arrived this day.
Her dates of sailing were :—Gibraltar, Februaq
16, 6 p.m. ; Cadiz, February 17, 11.15 $111,41
Lisbon, February 19, 8 15 a.m. ; Vigo, Feb
20, 11.0 a.m.
The Alhambra, during the voyage, if;
perienced, outwards, in the Bay of Big .8.
a very severe gale from the South, with a "to
mendous high cross sea, during the greso,
part of which time she was obliged to be hoc! 0,
The remainder of the voyage particularly P_.„l/4
She brings eight first class, six second elass,
ten deck 'passengers, £11,926 in specie, 90409,
cargo consisting of 25 boxes eggs, 5 casks net
100 bags coffee, 8 boxes oranges, and 12 pack"
of sundries. the
She reports passing the Madrid steamer, °li.dwo
20th instant, cif Salbora Island, bound for v'o

with the outward mails. ton,,
She left at Lisbon H.M.S. Duke of Welling eO,
Princess Royal, and James Watt ; French vesßLe
Phoenix and Austerlitz ; and the usual Portugliv
squadron.

SPORTING INTELLIGENCE.