Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-12-01 00:00:00

THE N ORTIIERN TIME S.-LIVERPOOL, TUES DAY, DECEMBER 1, 1587,

are now waiting the promised communication on the
matter from the committee of the Exchange Buildings.
THE LIVERPDOOL OFFICE IN LONDON.

office itself, Mr. Horsfall observed, that, although very
possibly his honoured colleague and himself could do
without it, he was perfectly convinced that Liverpool could
not do without it, and the commercial associations, the
Dock Committee, and the Corporation of Liverpool, would
make a great mistake if they did net, not only con-
tinue the office, but put an efficient man into
it. Mr. Horsfall then alluded to the measure brought
forward by him last session with reference to the Board of
Trade. No answer, he remarked, was given to the state-
ments which were made on that subject. Sir Jas. Graham
made a speech on free trade, which many of his own friends
admitted might as well have been made ten years before.
He was followed by Mr. Lowe—and having had frequent
opportunities of speaking against Mr. Lowe, he (Mr.
Horsfall) felt bound to say, that upon that occasion Mr.
Lowe met his motion in a spirit of fairness and a spirit
of good humour. The only fault he ha 1 to find with Mr.
Lowe was that he denidd, in a very unqualified manner, a
statement made by him (Ar. Horsfall) with regard to some
regulations of the Board of Trade of a very inquisitorial
character, in the case of the loss of vessels. Mr. Lowe said,
in reply, that the house with which Mr. Horsfall was con-
nected was the only one which had ever objected to those
proceedings on the part of the Board of Trade, although
the measure had been in exietecce for years. Now he
(Mr. Horsfall) had in his hand at the time,
and read to the house, the official statement
of the Board of Trade, having just within a
very short time before made that rule, which Mr. Lowe
thought proper to state had been in existence for years.
In conclusion, Mr. Horsfall said the 'Chairman had very
properly alluded to the duties and the importance of,that
chamber. He might, perhaps, be permitted to say, that
he felt a sort of parental pride in its proceedings, having
had the honour of being its first president, and he could
fully confirm all the Chairman had said, not only as to
its importance, but as to the duties which it had to
discharge. He had on many occasions—and he said only
that which he was sure his honourable colleague could
support him iu saying—derived assistance from that
chamber which he could have derived from no other
source. Gentlemen could not well imagine Ihe import-
ance and additional weight which it gave to their members
when they could gi to any member of the Government and
say, 1' Here is the opinion of the Chamber of Commerce of
Liverpool, and in that opinion, as practical men, we
entirely and cordially concur." He never knew a repre-
sentative of that kind which was not received with becom-
ing attention by any member of her Majesty's Government ;
and without intending any undue compliment to the mem-
bers of that chamber, he might say that he knew no place,
he knew no constituency more competent to advise not
only its members, bat to advice her Majesty's Government
upon any commercial questions which could be brought
under their consideration or under the consideration of the
House of Commons. Mr. Horsfall concluded, amid load
applause, by seconding the adoption of the report.
Mr. R. A. MACPLE asked whether it was the case that
the Deck Committee, as stated in the report, had made
provision for extended docks at the north end ?
The CHAIRMAN said the published notices of their bill
included power to that effect. The Council thought them
very ample
Mr. FORWOOD rose to make some observations on the
question of railway amalgamations, and part7culerly in
reg trd to the contemplated amalgamation of the Lan-
cashire and Yorkshire and East Lancashire Companies.
He said he hoped that at some future day the Chamber
would take the general qnestion of amalgamation of rail-
ways, so far as Liverpool interests wera concerned, under
their consideration, and that the Council of the Chamber
would appoint a standing sub-committee to take charge of
the subject. If they looked to the Com nerce of the port
they would find that last year their exports alone were no
less than 134,000.000. That vast trade depended on their
proximity to the hives of industry of the country—Man-
chester' &c.—and the means of conveying that trade
should be as open and as cheap as they c mild obtain it.
Such, however, was not the case ; for that was a compact
among all the Companies, whereby the rates of passengers
and goods were kept up at a very extravagant figure. They
had none of the advantages which competition brought
with it, and if the amalgamation now in question took
place, the probability was, that the service rendered by the
two companies would be very materially reduced.. They
would strive to do as little as possible, and at as high a
rate as possible. Now he thought that it would be taken
for prantel that whatever tended to raise the rate of
carriage from Liverpool to the interior, or vice
versa, was by so much injurious to the Commerce
of the port, and that at this moment when
they were themselves, through the opposition of
certain railway companies with the competition of ether
ports, they should be very cautious how they permitted
interference with that traffic. This view had suggested
itself to the Chamber of Commerce of Preston, and the
Corporation of that town were about to tako oorao stops
in regard to the amalgamation of the two companies
already alluded to. He thought it was a subject deserving
their serious consideration also, and he would therefore
move—" That the meeting request the Council of the
Chamber to watch over the proposed amalgamation, with a
view to ascertain whether it was calculated to prove in-
jurious to the commerce of the port, and to take such
further steps as might seem desirable."

_Mr. R. A. AtAci:lE seconded the motion, and in doing
so, urged that they should seek the Corporation of their
Chambers to gat the Board of Trade to put this subject
of amalgamations on a more satisfactory basis. The
principle of rivalry could not exist in amalgamation, and
so long as there was a monopoly in such matters as rail-
ways, they should be subject to the control of the State to

see that their rates were reasonable, and their ramifications
such as trade required. lie considerel that Government
ought to empower the Board of Trade to supervise matters
of that kind, and that that was another reason why that
Board should be reconstituted and made more commeicial
than it was.

Mr. TIORSFALL concurred in the importance of having
all railway bills watched, but he did not think that they
were sufficiently considered at the Board of Trade with
reference to the commercial interests of the country. The
bills were merely considered by the Board of Trade, with
reference to the merits of the lines themselves, but he was
sorry to any that the Board of Trade was in such bad
repute with some committees of the House of Commons,
that the moment its report was laid before them, they
threw it under the table. (Laughter.)
Mr. DAMSON observed, that if the remarks of the mover
and seconder of the motion were taken in their literal
sense, they would convey to the public a very erroneous
impression of what those gentlemen, he thought, really
meant. He was sure that neither Mr. Forwood nor Mr.
:',laefie would advocate that dictational power should be
given to Government to interfere with mercantile interests,
even where those were railways. They should choose
between the dictation of the state as to what the toll
should be ; a principle to which he should be strongly
opposed, and which, if tried in this country, would un-
questionably fail, or they should fall back upon the
economic laws which regulated those tolls. It would be
found that the true general interests of railways were
contained in the principle not yet sufficiently recognised.
That whenever a commodity to be supplied was practically
inexhaustible, the lowest price which could be put on that
commodity consistently with its due and effective supply
to the consumer, was that price which woull best pay the
sellers and best satisfy the consumers.
The motion was then unanimously agreed to.
Mr. DAMSON moved that the Council of the Chamber be
directed to apply its attention to the two great subjects
about to occupy the attention of Parliament in the coming
session, namely, the revision of the Bank Act of 1844 and
1845, and the re-organisation of the Government of India,
in order that the Chamber might, in due time, be prepared
to express a deliberate opinion thereon, or to take such
action as may seem to be requisite to promote the interests
of Liverpool and the country generally.
Mr. WATSON seconded the motion.

Mr. Jonrr AMIN supported it, and in doing so, took
exception to the idea that they should look to legislative
enactments for the cause of such evils as that which they
were now suffering in the commercial world. It was in
the prudent loaning and the prudent control over capital
that they should look for the remedy of such evils, rather
than in legal enactments. (Hear, hear.) As to the Act
of 1844, its promoters declared that its main object was
to secure the convertibility of the bank-note ; and
it would be arinrtted by all that neither in
the crisis of 1847, nor in this crisis, had it failed in that
object. They should, therefore, first ascertain the object of
till Act of 1844, and, if that object was not to prevent great
disturbances like the present, they should not condemn it
as the cause of them.

Mr. HORSFALL replied that the convertibility of the bank
note was secured by the Act of 1819 and that the promo-
ters of the Act of 1844, claimed for it as one of its great
merits, that it would prevent future panics. Had it done
so ? In that respect, its most strenuous supporters admit-
ted that it had failed.