Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1859-09-07 00:00:00

MAGISRATES' MEETING.

Gladstone, Hoir,e, J. Turner, Jeffery, Eyre, Evans
Castdlain, and Shiel.

THE LICENSING SYSTEM. RIVER POLICE.
,
A meeting of magistrates was held yesterday in the Mr..AION said it had been brought forward very
Sessions-house, Chapel-street ; Mr. John Stewart in the frequently that a great number of boats were pulled
chair. The other members present were--Messrs. Robert- about in the river by tailors and boarding-house
son Gladstone, Theodore Rathbone, George Holt, keepers, for the purpose of boarding vessels, to the
Charles Turner, Castellain, Rankin, Hamilton, Peel, annoyance 'of many people, and it was thought ad-
Dixon, Jag. Aikin, S. Holme, J. R. Jeffery, R. Shiel, visable by.many that they hallsld have a river police.
... A FY% Jeffery,, R.,
•

T. Bolton, Hutchinson, J. A. Turner, urosthwaite, In
Shand, Parker, Eyre Evang, and S. Rathbone. ! th(
The first business before the meeting was the present
system of granting spirit licenses, and the propriety of i on
no. tbe frillfOrnmant nn thn srnhiAm•

a mau was

he coil

get any

if ,a clozeapolice-

men to attend the ri

Mr. Ancim said,
magistrates, they had always considered that the prcsiat I fin
system of - licensing required improvement. They had I and most important to L
come to resolutions that licenses should be granted to property should be look
such a police-foreo WOUltl. greatly increase the safety
respectable persons only. They had appointed a sub-
committee on the subject, and he believed a bill bad ••\ Ile did not know that it was the ;'
been frarttd 6a' memoralise the government to take such to see who was to pay 0-
steps as wore necessary in the matter. That had Passed. very

He wot

of maintainin

It was

verpoel, that the protection of
.ed after ; and he considered

e expense, but it IN
,oulcl not Faye a

strang

away ; but he hoped that, when brought before
ment, it would be seen that the matter was
about
time • mano*, hen that slay was . swinging.
—that it was absolutely necessary that noimperative imos.
should any
be lost in the matter. He moved that a committee be tide, to say whether she was nearer • the La.._
appointed to memoralise the government on the present Cheshire shore at the time the act was, committed.. He
licensing _system, and to take such other steps as might wished it to be made known, however, that Liverpool
be thought necessary for remedying its defects. . officers would always take cognizance of any act corn--
Mr. SHIEL said, as other resolutions had been adopted , mitted on the fiver, a
send a force sufficient to the
might adopt them again-. exigency of the case. It could' not, be questioned that
by former committees, they
He recollected perfectly well that such resolutions were it was desirable to have a police-force on the river:
adopted.
, They should not go into the question of the expense ;
At the request of the Chairman, Mr. Garnett read the but the question for them to decide was, whether,
proceedings and resolutions of the late sub-committee at the police-force was necessary. The cabs "and porters
length. The effect of these proceedings was that the were all licensed for the protection of the public, but it
committee held the opinion that any respectable man was not so with boatmen, though he believed the boats
ought, it he choose, to have a license, on the condition should be licensed. The mind, could . riot imagine the
that he Paid £lOO as a license fee, and £5 annually for amount of frauds practised on poor emigrants who were
renewal. • unacquainted with the rules. , A poor,man about to emi-
At the' conclusion of the reading of the proceedings of grate, when the ship was lying. in the river, employed a
this committee, boat to take him off to her, aud it not unfreqnently
Mr. AntiN said he thought that was the time for, pened, when he, got alongside, .that the boatman refused
them to take the Matter up, as he was sure the present to let him leave his boat without paying a much larger
Chancellor of the Exchequer would be quite glad to get sum than he had any, :right to do. That was 'one
the additional revenue. Taking the qnestion as a whoe, class of grievance. ,which, he wished to have remedied.
he thought it would be wise to appoint a sub-committee He merely mentioned theSe matters to, show the amount
to memorialise the government on the subject. of good that would arise from having a river police-
Mr. GLADSTONE said he rejoiced exceedingly that Mr. force. • He conclUded by moving that, in the opinion of
Aikin had brought that very important subject 'once that meeting, the appointment of a river police-fOrce was'
more before the attention of 'the magistrates. It desirable.
_ .
was one in which, for a great number of years Mr, RATHBONE SC
past, he. felt a very warm interest. He thought carried without opposition.
it necessary that they
.should bear in mind the full TILE LIMITS OF THE RESIDENCE OF MAGISTRATES.
importance of the matter which they were about to Mr. S. HoLmn said, as he had observed before, he was
enter upon. - He was free to confess that what was in the chair at the lidensing sessions, when an objection
termed the old bench of magistrates had been too was made by Mf.' Bremner that two ge'ntlemen had
tardy in asking for a remedy. When they came' to voted against one of his clients ebtainine. 'a license, who
reflect on the various ramifications in which the poison were not malified to vote accordinse to the 98th section of
of drink ate its way into every class of society, perhaps the Municipal Act (5 and 6 Wm. IV., c. 76), which defines
excepting what the world called the highest class; when the limits of the residence of borough magistrates.' The
they considered the evil that existed to the greate`st degree ; magistrates thought it was not desirable to take such a
and when they
_remembered family after family was question up at that time, as it was not for them then to
brought-to beggary by indulging in it—he considered it decide. It had been' thought desirable, hoivever, that
their duty to do away with that evil to as great an ex- it'should be discussed at- that meeting. The persons
tent as "possible. The gentle Men who stood around him whO voted were Mk. Crosthwaite and Mr. Dixon, and
must haVe been perfectly well aware of all the cone- whO lived more than . seven miles beyond the 'hero*,
quences of drink. He considered that there was nothing' and the matter was brought before that meeting to know
more repugnant to the feelings of a man than to see a what they should say on it: •
drunken parent present himself in that condition to a Mr. GLADSTONE thought it was a matter for' col:-
family. He would ask, how often did that occur ? how sideration that, there were railways now, by which men
often did the poorer classes indulge—more in ignorance, residing over seven miles from Liverpool were no fur-
hehoped, than otherwiSe—in drinking ? If grief or sor- they away in point of time.' Ile conceived that if that
' were laid before parliament the act would be. repealed,

J;iylllg 111

he river, he c

its hire or

seconded the 'motion, which was

;o fly to the

lie-house. What he presumed was the great o!ject
of the magistrates was, to endeavour, if possible, to
raise an idea of something better than the brutal
recreations._ of these peiple. It was under the in-

and a new, one enacted

Mr. HOLME observed that Mr. Crosthwaite lived
twenty miles off, and the law only allowed seven.

fluence of that feeling That he had ventured to offer the
few remarks which he had done. He hoped the matter
would not be allowed to fall to the (*round. He was aware
that there were a great many difficulties in the way.
First of all, they would be asked, if a bill was brought
in, if it were to be a national or a local measure. That
would be one of the difficulties ; and, bearing in mind
the present condition of parliament, that there, was
scarcely a single member in the House who was
not more or less mixed up, in some shape
or form, with the licensed publicans • there would
be a difficulty in getting any change effected in th,,
present. system. Under these c:ircumst-_;wes, he hoped
the committee would enfi.:ire into every part of the

question

Mr; S...flotsin said that he was in hopes that Mr.
Gladstone would have gone a little farther, and let
them discuss what the, committee was to. do. It had
been his lot to take the chair at the licensing sessions :
he hoped for the last time ; for he declared that the
duty was the most irksome that ever-had fallen.to his
lot. On the one hand, they were told by gentlemen
that the licenses they had already granted were too
narnqr.ons. and if the number of public-houses were less,
drunkenness wouldpo 911.1.1 e. other hand, they
were told that if tney ceased giving. licenses they ware
establishing the monopoly of the existing public-houses.
They were told on all hands, if the house was a suitable:
o- e, and there was nothing objectionable in the character
of the applicant, it was their duty to grant a license.
They had memorials by the dozen, and signed by
hundreds, asking to grant licenses. Of the number of
applicants, 150' of them produced memorials, signed
most respectably, and, he was sorry to say, many
of these' memorials were signed by town coun-
cillors, requesting that they should give licenses''
to the parties. That was a difficulty, among others,
that they had to contend with. He, for one, believed
that there were far more licensed public-houses than
could support.their owners well. Another matter which
came before them was, that so much as £BOO had been
for the_goodwill of a
.11011$e with a license attached;
and when people were willing to give such stuns as that,
the magistrates considered that they were putting so
much money into those men's pockets to whom they
granted a license. There was another rule, that no man
should have more than one license; but they found that
it was impossible to ascertain whether some of them
had net a dozen. Brewers and distillers had not unfre-
quently put in men of straw, who represented them-
.rdvpg as the owners of hOuses, and by such

sot er, " _
means these gentlemen became possessors of a large
number of licenses, with the power of attorney
hanging over their heads, by which they could be turned
out at any, time. After these licenses were granted,
they could not take them away without the greatest dif-
ficulty. What they wanted was greater power, so
that they might be enabled to take the licenses away
Another thing they had to deplore was, the payment of
wages in pubic-houses. And, again, a great number
of clubs held their meetings in these places. It was a
fact, that working men. assembled by thousands, night
after night, in public-houses, to attend these clubs ; and
that was one very fruitful source of intemperance
and drunkenness. Many of his own men, toe,
had told him that they had been compelled to assemble
at these clubs, where they were induced to take a little,
and the result was that they became drunkards.. He
did not believe that they could cure drunkenness by acts
of parliament; but, at the same time, he would say that
the present licensing system was fraught with the
greatest difficulty. He was no advocate for 'making it
a national question ; and until they had got the publi..!
opinion with them for the cause of morality, they should
never be able to carry their measure. They were
to look to the power of the licensed publicans'
and the power of the licensed victuallers. They
had only to take into consideration their
wealth and their political influence, and they would
find that even in the metropolis a great influence would
be. brought to bear on the government. For his own
part, he would give his support to any government that
would put an end to such a system as that which at
present existed. lie concluded by seconding Mr.
Aikin's motion.
Mr. BOLTON thought they should have a system from
the government that would be applicable to every parish
in England, Scotland, and Ireland. H e did not think
that it would be fair to ask people in small places to
pay L 5 each year. He considered that people who
had conducted themselves without reproach, and
who had honestly maintained their families respectably,
had no right to be charged £lOO for their license.
In his opinion what was done ought to remain done.
The CHAIRMAN observed that the committee would
consider the various difficulties.
Mr. ATKIN was sure that if Mr. Wm. Brown was on
the committee, and took the matter up, he would obtain
their object.
Mr. OLADsToNF. thought that, if Liverpool came for-
Zazd_a,nd spoke for itself, it would be an additional rea-
son why government should take some steps in the
matter ; bat he would leave the whole matter in the
hands of the committee. He believed the publican who
had been licensedalready should hold that license while
he lived. He hoped nothing unjust would be done to

any one

The CHAIRMAN put the motion as moved by lir
&ikin, which was carried auauimouslv.

The following gentlemen Were then appointed as a
sub-committee :—Afessrs. Wm. Brown, Stewart, Aikin,