Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-11-10 00:00:00

treasurer, it *as distinctly stated that no retiring
pension whatever would be given. (Hear, hear)
Another question presented itself, and that he would
venture to discuss without any personal feelin; whatever.
From his experience of the Dock Committee, and the
business conducted in Mr. Taunton's department, he had
no hesitatiou in saying that Mr. Taunton was rot entitled,
as treasure-, to a retiring pension. He believed that if
any consideration were given it should be eve t to Mr.
mison, the secretary, who, besides his own busines,, had,
at some inconvenience, uneerteken the duties of the Dock
Treasure-, and that if a return were made of Mr. Taun-
ton's atter dances at the office, it would be found that of
late years the amount of time he had given to the service
of the Dock Trust had been comparatively very small.
S sing this short time during which the docks would be
under their h 3 thought that everything should be
done right and proper, and be would, therthre, prefer with
Mr. Akin, that the matter had been deferred to the let of
January—(hear, hear)—when the new trust could take
the matter into their hands. He had no doubt that there
were various impirtant duties for the D ck Surveyor to
perform, but there were excellent clerks in the service of
the Dock Trust, and by a little arrsngemeat he thought
that this mat e • could have loom very well postponed.
Mr. ANDERS )3T rose to correct Mr. Gladstone in an
error into which he had fallen, as to the want of notice
given of this matter in the committee. The Finance
Committee did not wis:i t, take the responsiblity of the
matter upon themselves, and they accordiflgly brought it
before the Genera l Committee, when the woole question
was discussed, and when it appeared that the committee
were unanimously of opini that Mr. Taunton was
entitled to a retiring pension, not as treasurer, but on
account of hi long services as receiver of dock dues. The
committee were also of opinion, with the exception of one
member, who thought £2OO sufficient, that the retiring
allowance should be £250, and with that expression of
opinion the matter was referred back to the Finance
Committee. At the following meeting the Finance Com-
mittee recommended that that allowance be granted, and
then the General Committee co..firmed that recommenda-
tion.

Mr. II )ns )N said it d;(71 look somewhat singular In the
Dock Committee to proposa an annuiy to a man who,
whoa taking the office of &nr7Pyor, had forf ited all claim
to it. He agreed with M. Gladitoue that, as the new
'Lust would come into office on the Ist of J.nuiry, they
would be jast as well able to decide on all the circatn-
stancea as the pressnt committee, and that they should
come in as unfettered as posNible.
_ _

Mr. Alderman Rontsso-1 observed, that if Mr. Taunton
hed thouglit that he had forteite I all claim to a retiring
pension on accept'ng the treasurer,hip, he would have
hesitated before unlerteking the office. He had been
thirty-two years in their se v:ce, and was fairly entitled
to the pension now proposed to be granted to him.
Mr. J. R. JEFFERY a)ked whether suds a grant would be
legal if it ware passed.
The Tows CLERK replied that it was within the power of
the Dock Committee to grant a supsrannuation allowance.
11Ir. J. A.. Teune sa'd that it would be much more pleas
ing to him to remsin elect on this question, as it was
generally considered ungeeeroue to say anything that
might press age'nst a men failing in health; bat still,
havin t listened to the atgament used by the Dock Chair-
man and Mr. Andereoo, he could not consent to let the
matter pass without expressing his opinion upon it. The
aTument used by the Deck Chairman was that Mr.
Taunton's position as treasurer was not taken into account,
but that the pension was granted with reference to the
office which he previously held, as receiver of dock dues.
In th tt situation he receive I a salary of £3OO a.year, and,
remembering that, I e should say that the allowance now
proposed to be granted, was much larger than wha; has
been given on any previous occ sion. (Hear, he a.). In
his experienas, he could not call to mind one single instance
in which so large an al ,:vauee as five-sixths of the original
talsry was made. If the proposed allowance ware a smsll
one, he should not have sai t oie word, and it was wi!h
reluctance he rose to express his opinion, that it was mach
too large under the circumstances. They had aw sr& d
no larger allowance to the Marine Surveyor, who had filled
a mere responsible office, req siring much greater ene gy
and expo,ure, and whose illness Ind been mainly ecca
sioned by the great exertions which the duties of his office
called upon him to make.
Mr. C. TITRKFR replied that the question was not between
£3OO and £250, but between £4OO and £250.

The MAYO t asked if any gentleman were prepared to
move a veto on that part of the committee's proceeding.?
Mr. A'KEN repl:ei that he wets, and then moved that
that part of ho pr :ceedin44 having reference to the allow-
ance of an annuily to the treasurer be not ccatirmcd.
Mr. Honsort seconded the motion.
Mr. W .HeaLic asked if it would no` be c .mpetent for
the new Trost to grant this allowance ?
The Tows CLtitx replied that 8D 'ong as the d)ck acts
ob•erve't, that though it was now intenn Ott
that the annui+y s':ould be 13r life, yet that it wouli be
open to the new Trn.t to emerd it.

-Thu Tows CLERK replied that he doubted if the new
Trust enuld do so a ter the vote wag ones c manned

Mr. J eTinVIRT that it would be better if Mr.
Taunton continued to hold the office n Ail the new Trust
came into power. He did not Nee, just %hen the power
was about to pass from them, to do anything whic'a ett'gat
be open to comment, and he woull, therefwe prefer that
Mr. Taunton remained in his office, and that the new Trust
were left to deal with their own money.
Mr. C. Terme& replier' that it was impossible for Mr.
Taunton to attend to his duties, and it would b 3 improper
to all ow so important a departnaent, through which so much
money passed, to remain without an active head and super-
intendent. (Hear, hear )
Mr. AIKiN s rnetion was thee put to the vote, and lost by
31 to 20. The voting was as follows :
For Councillore - John Johnso t Stitt, Richard Snail,
John Woodruff, C. C. Corballe, William Barton, James
Steains, James Ibley, Jelen C. Fernihough, Charles T,
Bowring, Robertson Gladstone Wi!liam Earle, James A.
Picton, James R Jeffery James Johnson, T. Liewelyn
Hodson, James Mellor, Joseph KiLehen, John A kin,
Richard M. Beckwith; Alderman—William Preston-20
Against—Councillors—Thomas D. Anderson, Daniel
Crosthwaite, James Crellin, James Tyrer, Char es Turner.
Thomas Littledals, Joseph G. Livingston, Walter P. Jef-
freys, Samuel R Graves, John Lawrence, Thomas Wag-
staff, John B Brancker. Robert Hutchison. Francis A.
Clint, John Farnwor It, James Robertson, John Stewar,
Tnoma, Vernon; Beneett, Thomas
Bold, Georee H. Uorsfell, James Parker, ThomaS Robin-
son, Joseph Cooper, J. Hayward Turner, Richard C.
Garener, Raymond W. Houghton, Thomas Toulmin,
Samnel Holme. F. Shaad ; the Meyer— 31.
Mr. W. EARLS lived that the names wall 1 be recorded,
Rs he would, on a future day, rem'nd gentlemen of their
extravagance.
The proceedings of the committee were than confirmed.
On the motion of Mr. C. Tuasett, M.. T Liteledele was
elected a member.of the Dock Committee.
Mr. Pic ewe here rose, for the purpom of drawing atten-
tion to the late meeting in Manchester in regard to the
Bit!' enhead Docks, but desisted, on being informed by the
Mayor that the subject won!d come on ie the regular
co Tee of procredinge, a communica ion having been re-
ceived from Manchester bearing on it.
The Lext business was the appointment or the three
quarterly Cot-melts for the ensuing year. It was proposed
that they should be, as usual, on the first Wednesdays in
February, May, and Augcst, and be held in the Cenacil
Ch emher

be reduced nearly one-half—(cries of " No, no ")—that the
resolution should not be passed until they had first a report
on the subject.
The Tows CLERK replied that all the officers were
appointed daring pleieure, and that the passing of the
resolution would in no way prejudice the Council.
Mr. HOD3ON asked if the Financa Committee intended
to lay before the Council a stetement of the revenue of the
Corperatic n.
The Town CLERK replied that such was th-ir intention
At the last meeting of the Finance C ammitteJ they directed
himself, the Surveyor, and the Treasures to make a report
upon the income and expenditure of the Co:Tor .tiou,
&say guish'ng the obligatory payments, and the effect of
the Mersey Conservancy Bill upon it, and that report
would be laid before the Finance Committee at their next
meeting. (gear. hear )
Mr. HOD CON said that in that case he would withdram
his motion.

Tae annual appointments were then male.
APPOINTMENT OF C MMITItZS.

The next business was the sk-p ointment of Committees.
Mr Srtvr said that it would be in the recollection of
the Council that at their last meeting he had given notice
that he would mere for a re-organisation of the Com-
mittees. He would not fur reasons which he would
presently sta`e, go as fully into the matter now as he
intended to do, but he w,Juld lay it down as a principle
that every gentleman who entered the Council ought to be
expected, and ought to be required, to take his fair share
of its necessary duties. (Hear. hear.) That appeared to
him so very pl.in and reasonable a proposition, that he
did rot expect there would be much opposition to it. He
would go further, and say, that whoa a gentleman hid found
his eng-tgements were such as to prevent his taking his
place upon more Committees than one or two,
or to prevent his attendance, even upon those committees,
it ought to require no pressure from without, to show that
gentleman what step he should take— hat he should give
way gracefully to o,hers wh) were prepared to take his
place on those committees. A. singly glance would show
how very unfairly the members of the Council were
at present distributed on the committees. They hei at
present 21 pArmenent committees, though on the Council
summons 25 appeared, because including the special
committees. T,t. y had 61 members, an :1 if the 21 cm-
mittees were fairly divided between them, there would be
three committees for each member. But what vas the
actual distribution ? There were 13 gentlemen of the
Council, who were on 13 committees, 37 who were *on 8
c)mtnitiess, 3 .ho were on 7 committees, 0 Rho were on 6
comuittees, 11 who were on 5 committees, 13 who were
4et 4 committees, 13 who were on 2 committees, and 1
on 1 committee
Mr J. B. J• 2,RY : Who is that one?

11r PICTON mwed, as an amendment. that they be held
in the new ecncert o ri, St George's 11111; and, in tht:
cour,,e of his cb•ery tioLs. urged the propriety of the
public being adAi ted to their discussions, according lo
the practice in Menet:le.:ter, and nearly all other towns in
the kingdom.

Mr. Alderman PAIIKER seconded the motion.

Mr. STITr : Mc. Alderman Toultnin. (Laughter) That
simple reference to the actual distributiou of the members
of the Council was sufficient to show that is duties were
made to press too heavily an] unfairly upon Ort4in
membe-s, and that others were permitted to escape without
discharging almost aoy duties. Now, as to the remedy—
he was gi well aware as any gentleman could be of the
great delicacy and difficulty, as well as the importance of
this subject. When he gave notice of his intention to
bring it before the C suncil, he threw out a sugpstion that
the chairmen of the committees should meet and consult
together, and bring up a report oa the bast mode of solving
the difficulty Those gentleman had mat and consulted,
and had come to a resolution, but the question was one
which, in his opini was cf far too much importance to
be seta Al in that manner. It would require a great many
mee.ii.gs and skill, to put the matter on a much sounder
and eater basis than it had been. Toe Conservancy Bill,
however, would come into operas on on the Ist of January,
when there would be a re-distrib.,,ion of tho members now
serving (,n the Dock C ,masittee, and under these circum-
stances he was preptred to move that the committees be

Hodson, but he had already cotatuunicsted with Mr. Shand
upon the subject.
Some discussion took place, after which the Council
divided, when the amen latent was lost by a majority of
:30 to 21

Mr. GODFREY moved arother amendment, to substitute
Mr. Barton fur Mr. Shand
Mr. HODSON seconded the amendment, contending that ,
new blooa was reqnired iu the Watch Committee, and
declaring that it was known through the length and breadth
of the town, that ihe Watch Commi tee did not do their
duty. It was well known that for three years back, he
(Mr. Hodson) was theirous f being appointed a member
of that Committee, because, knowing. wore of police affairs
than he chose to mention, he thought he could throw in
that knowledge, so as to be of service to the community,
but he had invariably met with opposition.
The amendment was fiaaliy withdrawn, and Mr Shand
appointed.
Mr. FEENIII lIGII suggested that, as Mr Mann hail been
prevented by ill health from attending the committee for a
considerable time back, it would be neee-.nary to elect some
one in his place, /tad that the nem s of Mr. Barton could
thus be added to the committee.
Mr. GnDFREY proposed that Mr. B irton b placed on
the committ:e in the room of Mr. Mann. Mr. Barton was
the representative of very important interests, and desired
to be appointed to the Watch Committee, believing that
he could be of some service there.
Mr. JEFFERY urged that Mr. Hodson's name should be
substituted for Mr. Mann's, as Mr. Hodson and Mr.
Barton would be put is a most painful position towards
each other. An inference also might be drawn that there
was some truth in the charge which Mr. Hodson had made,
thet the committee was a snug, comfortable family party.
and was afraid cf his being introduced among them, lest he
should disturb their happiness.
Mr. Bt<CKwIIII said it struck hint forcibly that there was
something existing in the committee which made it an
object to keep Mr. Hodson out of it. The way to keep the
committee pare was to have Mr. Hodson upon it. (Hear,
hear, and laughter).
After some discussion Mr. Barton was elected.
Mr JEFFZRY hoped that if they all lived until that
time 12 months the chairman of the Watch Committee
would have better taste than he had evinced that day.
Mr. KtTcnere moved that Mr Hodson's name be added
to the C matittee. _ _ _

Ater some discus.,ioa, in which the old arguments pro
and con were repeatAcl, the amen-Irnew; WAS put to the
vote and lost by 29 to 19. The voting was as 'ollows:
For the 11.106-Ht.—Councillors •-141essr4. John Johnson
Stitt, Richard Sheil, J.thn Woodruff, J toles C'el in, C. 0
Co:belly, James Ryley, Charles T. Bo wring, R)bertson
Gladstone, James A. Pict James R. Jeffery, James
Johnor, T. Llewelyn Hodson, James Mel or, Joseph
Kitchen, Richard M.Beck,,ith, John Farnwortit ; Aldermen
—William Preston, James Parker, and Richard C. Gardner
—l9.

Mr. BECKWITH seconded the motion.
Mr. BKANCKER, while earnesdy disclaiming any ill-
feeling to Mr. Hodson, opposed the motion on th 3 ground
that the Committee was already very large. He assured
Mr. Hodson, that if he were a member, he would find
nothing existing in the Commiziee such as he had charged
them with.

Against it. —Councillors—Messrs. Thomas D. Anderson,
Daniel Crosthwaits, William Bar:on, James Tyrsr, Charles
furrier, Thomas Liitledale, Joseph G. kres, John James
;
Steains, John C. Fernihomo, Welter P. J
Lawrence, Tacoma. Wagstaff. John B. Braucker. William
Earle, Robert Hutehkon, Jchu Aikin, James Robertson
John Stewart, Hilton Hothead, William H. Anthony,
Thomas Vernon ; Aldermen—William Bennett, George H.
Horsfall, Thomas Dover, J. H,yward Turner, Raymond
W. Houghton, Triom:s Toulmiu, Samuel Holm, and the
Mayor-29.
The original motion was then adopted; and on the
it was referred to the Special
moti 'n of Mr. J R Jeffery,
Committee to report on the bas manner of improving the
Council Chamber.
ANNUAL APPOINTMENT OF OFFICERS.
The next bu.siness was the annual appointment of officers,
with their present salaries and privileges.
Mr. flonsoN thought it would be advisable, before those
appointments were made, for the CJaccil to have bef...re
them a report on the reduction of the revenues of the
Corporation. It was understood that the business of the
Council would be materially lessened by the changes which
would take place in January ; and without saying whether
the present salaries would be equivalent for the new duties
or not, he thought, remembering that their zevqllW,, !old

app tinted, as usu-al,to- act until the Ist of trinuary, and that,
in the meantime, a special committee be appointed fully
t c gadder the best meth xi of arranging the com nitteee,
and to report to the C uncil -the committee to consist of
Messrs. S. Holtne, J. Stewart, Bheil R Glaistone, W.
Earle, 13-ancker, Picton, Farnwortla, J. R Jeffery,
Hodson, and himself.
Mr. Eionsox secondel the moinn.
Mr Alterman. S. H.,Lsth said that the chairmen of the
committees bad met, in accordance with Mr. Stites sug
potions, to consider this question, and that Mr. Stitt
himself was present at their meeting. The re-ult of their
deliberations was a recommend tti m to go on with the
appointment of committees as usual, but not to appoint
members to a more than a ctrtaiu number of committee's
Personally, he had no objection to Mr. Stitt's plan, but,
at the same time, he saw its complete inutility. He did not
think Mr. Stitt had given. them any valid reason why they
should depart from the usital custom in this matter' and
thought it better that the Council should at once proceed to
the a,,polutment of the committees.
lirancker, and ocher pntleni;in ars-0 pposeri—Mr. Stites
motion, which, when put to the vote, was lost by 19 to 25.
The voting was as follows :

For the motion Cluncillors —.Mosul. Thomas D.
Anderson, John .131inso,. Sdtt, Daniel. Ceosthws,i e. Richd
Sheil, John Woodruff, James Crel'in, C. C Corbally,
James Steaine, James R, ley, Charles T Bo wring. Simnel
R Graves, Chides Mozley, R )bertson GlalQtone, James
A. Ptcton jamas R Jeffery, T. Llewelyn Hoisan, James
Mellor, Joseph Kitchen, Francis A. Clint-19.
Against the motion :—C mncillors—MeFers. Wm Barton,
James Tyrer, Chatles Turner, Thomas Li.tled la Josedh
G. Livingston, John C. Farnihmgh, Walter P. Jeffreys.
Thomas Wagn.aff J,hn B B-ancker. Janes Aspinall
Tobin, William Earle, Rob.3rt Hutchison. James Johnson,
John Aikin, John Fa-nvrorili, William ff An•hony Thos.
Vernon Aldmnen Me3.re William Preston, Thomas
B hi, Thomas Dover Joseph Cooper, Raymond W.
Tieug%ton, Th)mas Toulmin, Holme, and tha
Mayor-25. FINANCE CC MMITTFE

Mr Alderman Hon3ta, in moving the appointment of
the Fin .nce C.,mmittee, said he was sure the Council
would join in his regret that th I duty of prvosing that:
mltion had fallen to him. No one could deplore
more than he did the lass wtich the Council and
the public htd sustained in losing the firmer
Chairman of the Finance Committee. Altvaya calm.
always eerene, always unimpassi )ned ; he was c-m•
siderate to all, and united firmness wish courtesy to a
delres which he (Mr. Home) had never seen excelled.
(Hear, hear.) He was vigilant in the discharge of his
public duties, and in losing Mr Hornby the town had
experienced a great and a public loss. (Rear, hear )
That loss, howev, r, was mitigated by the circumstance that
they posse sad a gentleman in that Council whom he (Mr.
Holme) has the pleasure of seeing upon his left hand (Mr
John Stewart), whose great local knowledge and wh,,se
general information would t) acme ext oat supply the loss
to which he hsd alluded He could not, upon the present
owasion having been the depnty.chairman of the Finance
Committee, move the appointment of its members without
saying thus much as a tribute of his respec'z, to a gentle-
man with whom be had been e..-operating for s)
many years. and had er.joyei a pleasure in Co.opefating
with lam in the management of the fitarroos of the corpo-
ration, to which he had thus venture I to give a humble
xpression (Rear, hear) He now moved that the
Finance Committee consist of the f )11)wing gentlemen :
Messrs. J. Bnimley-Moore, Jones Parker, J. H. Turner,
Cooper, Tyrer, Toulmin, Preston, Fornihough, D3v.sr,
Tobin, Stewart, Ea le Thaucker A kin, S. Holm° and to
fill the vacancy c ineed by the retirement of Mr Ho nby,
this late Msyor, Mr Francis Shaud.

MC. CIL tom:INR asked what amount of service cou'd be
expected from Mc. Bremle -Moore. The principle could
n )t be questioned, that whenever a member of the Council
faled to do his duty, 'he duty Tin ual:y Ml upon some
other memb-r. Mr. Branley-Mo ire was a member of
Ye liament, and ha (31r. Gladstont) thought it most
unsolved that any man should bo'd a seat in that Council,
and at the same time be a member of pirlieenent, for he
must hold by the on. and de4p se the other ; he could not
serve both ; he could not be in two places at once. He
was not himself a member of the committee, arid it was
a question for the committee to caneid,,r, but he ghoul
lie to know schether the gentlemen cf the committee were
disposed to take Mr Ilraculey-Meore
Mr. Honme did not knoe, anything to prevent a Member
of Parliament sitting in the Council, under the Municipal
itet, and, f he could sit in the Comte.), he was elig-ble to
be aepointed to a commi tee Mr. Ifranoley Moore had
been a valuable member cf the Finance Committee, and
although dur ng the session of Parlament he was some-
times absent, yet, on many occasions, he was present.
The motion was then carried
Mr. Gnanswee remarked, that he was imp-es ed with
a conviction, that the hour was approaching when the
man.gement of ,he real state of the Co-poration wontd
deserve and recnire a separate committee for itself. (flea-,
hear.) On the present occasion, as de Council appearei
disposed to allow matter., for the p..e3ent, to assume their
wonted shape, he did not propose any alteration, hut, after
the Ist of January, he would propose, aided, as he 11,_ped
he would be, by the forcille elc.quence of Mr. Stitt, to re-
organise the greater portion, if not all, of the Committees.

The Council then divided, when there appeared 23 for
the motion, and 23 against. Several members called upon
the M tyor to give his casting vote.
Mr. lion-oN : I will not place the Mayor in the posi-
tion cf having to give a casting vote—l will withdraw.
Mr. Bacxwmt : No, no, you cannot withdraw.
The Mavoa : Then I give my vote against the motion.
Tae motion was therefore lost.

THE NORTHERN TIMES.enwLIVERPOOL, TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 10, 1857

mitten consist of the following gentlemsn :—Messrs. Earle
Crellin, Ryley, Stitt, Woodruff, Hodson, Wagstaff, Mellor,
Graves, Livingstone, Firnworth, Bennett, Chilton, and
Vernon. Mr. Cooper announced that he had himself re-
tired from the committee.

Mr. GODFRMY move that the name of Mr. J. R. Jeffery
be added to the committee.

Mr. BIICKWITII seconded the motion, which was
agreed to.
Tha other members were elected as proposed.
LIBRARY AND bILJSRIIII.COMMIT rEE.

The following gentlemen were elected, on the motion of
Mr. PICTON :—Messrs. Bennett, Beckwith, Woodruff, Earle,
Hodson, Kitchen, Aikin, Lawrence. Steains, Stitt, Mozley,
Bowing, Hutchison, Corbally, and Picton, the names of
Mr. William Brown, M.P., a!,(1 Mr. Holt being added,
according to the permission in the act of Parliament,
although not members of the Council.

HACKNEY CARRIAGES' COHIMITTER.

The following committee was elected, on the motion of
Mr. WOODRUFF Bennett, W P. Jeffreys, Holden,
Barton, Beckwith, Godfrey, Kitchen, and Woodruff.

BATHS' AND WASII•IVIISES' COMMITTEE.

On 'he motion of Mr. WAGSTAFF, the following gentlemen
were appointed : Fernihough, Parker, W. P.
Jefferys, Birton, Graves, Mozley, Lawrence, Crellin, and
Wagstaff.

tIRKINEIELD CDNIMITTEE.

Mr. STEWART, in moving the appointment of this com
mittee, said he was sure the Council would hear with much
pleasure that the duties of that committee would cease
with the present year. As, however, the business was
very important, it would be necessary to re-appoint the
committee, even for the short period of six or seven weeks.
He, therefore, moved that the following gentlemen con-
stitute the committee :—Messrs F. Shand, Mann, Earle,
Gladstone, S Holme, Bold, Aikin, Bramley-Moore, Tobin,
Clint, Charles Turner, J. R. Jeffery, Ryley (in the room
of Mr. Hornby), the M yor, and John Stewart.
The motion was agreed to.
Mr. Gloves drew attention to certain resolutions
recently passed at a meeting in Mancheater, and urged
that as they referred to the Birkenhead docks, the present
would be the most convenient time to enter upon the
subject.
The Mayon said a communication ha I been received on
the subject, whicte if it ware the pleasure of the Council,
&arid be then read. (Hear, hear.)
The TowN CLERK then read the resolutions adopted at
the recent conference held in M inchester upon the subject
of the Birkenhead d-cks, and which were forwarded to
the Council by the direction of the meeting. The reso-
lutions, with a report of the proceedings, appeared in this
journal of last Friday. e
Mr. JOIIN STEWART said, that it mutt have occurred to
every one who had hears the letter, that the parties were
confounding two things. (Hear, beer) The duties of the
Corporation. as the letter pointed out, were limited to the
Birkenh ad Docks and the al'egatien that they ware seek-
ing to promote docks at the north end, was not one that
applied to the Council at all. (Hear' hear.) That was a
separate affair. The question which the Council had to
deel with was, whether they had carried out, in n bona-fide
manner, the Act of Parliament which had received the
royal assent only in August last. He had heard some
whisper out of doors, that there was a desire, on the pert
of the Corporation, to " bucks" the whole of the Birken-
head scheme. To that he answered, most emphatically,
that there was no such intention, bet that the c anmittee
had proceeded in what they believed to be the most
vigorous and prudent manner, wieh regard to the Birken-
head Docks. (Hear, hear,) If gentlemen would cell
meetings of railway companies and others together, and
say, that since that bill had received the royal assent, the
Corporation had done nothing towards carrying it out, he
should say, that they spoke in great ignorance of the metre
and extent of the contemplated works The Council
had a very delicate duty to perform in this matter
They were placed in a vary peculiar and very
delicate p)sition, and one which required great care at,d
great watchfulness on their part—(hear, hear)—for, under
any mode of proceeding, they would be laid open to
animadversions from perti-e desirous of finding fault with
them The obligat o t which at present rested upon the
Corporation was created by the bill which received the
royal assent in Augast last. That obligation was to carry
out the Birkenhead docks actor gag to the original plan
laid down by Mr. Randall ; but he would ask any gentle-
man, who knew anything about dock works, whether the
Corporation would have been actin g with anything like
pru fence or propriety if they had proceeded with anything
but surface work until they had prepared all the necessary
plans, sections, specifications, and had obtained tenders
from responsible and respectable contractors ? (Hear,
hear) And any gen lemon, too, who knew anything of
such works would know that the preparation of those
TIBIA re." Atiniitl riiliitswer Ale t:i iirYrteYfaVB4ttlarkften4
to their talented surveyor, Mr. John Hartley- 'and of hint
he (Re. Stewart) (meld not speak too highly—(hear, hear)
—to know the earliest moment at which he could be ready
to give them the plans and specfi. tations of the works which
it was necessary to pewee I with, and what were they
toll ? Why that it weuld be utterly impossible for him
to have them ready in this year (Hear, hear.) But,
suppose that they got them in the month of De3emb3r, and
that they then entered ins contracts for the execution of
the work at the vary time that their authority was about
to expire, would they not be open to repeehention, because
that they hal improperly proceeded to pledge their suttees-
sore to the outlay of .600 000 or £600,000 or it might
be of a millien of money ? (Hear, hear.) Might not
their successors turn round upon then and say, " lust as
I your authority was about to expire you put th's burthen
upon us, and ple Iged us to an obligation I.vhich we can-
not fulfil ?'' (Hear, bear.) The Committee then asked
the Surveyor if they could gat prepared sufficient plans to
demonstrate what they wished to do. or if he could at
once proceed with the work by erecting a portion of the
outer wall, which would be serviceable under any elect-tat
stances? What was his answer? That before he mild
be ready with such plans, even though he prepared them
in the shortest possible time, the winter would be on and
no progress could be made with the works, subject
as they would be to the influence of the tides.
The days also would be shorter, and, in Eddilion to
those considerations, there was also the fact that
if ti* ey separated the week they weall have to pay a much
larger amount of money for each division then if they
carried on the work simaltaeeously. Thus was the matter ;
and he would ask whe her it would be prudent or proper
for the committee, under the circunastancee, to have done
more than they did ? It appeared to him that they could
not have done mere in the absence of do-ailed plans
(Hear, hear.) They had nothing but surface plans before
them, and it was imp iesible for them to proceed further.
What were they doing? Any one who had been lately
over at Birkenhead would have seen hundreds of men and
hundreds of waggons and horses employed in excavating
the pool, and that work was proceeding vary f.wourably :
but in ord-r to expedite the matter, that committee hi,,d
even passed a:res elution that Mr. Hartley should sos whe-
ther it was possib'e that they could begcn with the walling
of the pool opposite that,portion of the land which was the
property of the Corporation. It was found, however, that
even there they could not proceed with the work utile].
Mr. Thompson had ficished his contract, and that even if
they could, the land was not fit to receive the wall. Had
they proceeded, they should have employed a new con-
tractor, and work which otherwise might be done for
.E 6 000, would cost £12,000. Besides which, if they had
proceeded with many of the w,nks, there was such a com-
plication of acts of Parliament, that they might have been
subjected to the remark, "You have proceeded to spend a
great deal of money under very c enplicated acts of Per
liaruent, on which a very grave question may arise how
you are to be repaid; and you have pot per corporate
seal to a contract, on the faith of your not having to care
at all about it yourselves, but having to hand it over to
us." He wished the Comic.' to understand the difficulty
in which they were placed. He wi-hed that the gentlemen
finding fault with them understood the whole question,
and did not merely take a superficial view of it, but would
go a little farther, and look at the details and the difficul-
ties. (Hear, hear.) He, for one, was delighted to be
relieved from the d fficulties. At the same time,
he was most anxious that it should be conveyed
to all parties, who were crying out that the Council
wished to promote the North scheme at the expense of
Birkenhead, that the Council had nothing at all to do but
to carry out the Birkenhead acts of 1857, that they had
used every exertion to do so, and acted in a way which he
believed every reasonable mad weuld admit to be both
consistent and prudent in the discharge of the duties
which Parliament had imposed upon them, (Hear, hear,
and applause )
Mr. Alderman S. lifotatE observed that the Act of
Parliament received the royal assent on the 25th of
Augast, 1857, but so anxious were the committee
that there should be no time lost, that on the rpreced-
ing day, the 24th of August, the Town Clerk
having reported that the bill had passed the
House of Lords, the committee met and passed a resolution
requesting Mr. Hartley to state the time in which the
plans could be prepared. He would request the Town-
Clerk to read that resolution, and the report which Mr.
Hat tley furnished in consequence.
The Tows CLERK read the following:—
At a meeting of the Birkenhead Docks Committee, held
on Monday, the 7th (lay of September, 1857 ; Present
—John Stewart, Esq., chairman ; Read' the following
report of Mr. J. B. Hartley, as to additional works at
Birkenhead.
THE CIIAIRMLN OF THE DOCK COMMITTEE.

Sir,-1;n71 in recoipt of a reeolation, of your committee