Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-08-06 00:00:00

knowing the terms which they wished to enforce upon the
ratepayers of Liverpool, with regard to compensation for
the Town Dues, and with regsrd to the Birkenhead estate,
and other matters into which he would not then enter, were
the members of the Council, in the present state of affairs,
to return these gentlemen at once again as their
representatives from the Town Council, and, in
so far, pronounce an opinion upon the merits of
the question ? Were they prepared to go such a length ?
Were they prepared to discard all that their representatives
in Lon lon had been doing for them, with so much care,
attention, and desire to serve their interests, and pin
themselves upon the sleeve of Mr. Turner and his coad-
jutors? That was just the issue —that was the question
which they were called upon to dse'cle. Would it not be
more prudent under the circumstances that they should
gat a little more time to consider before pronouncing upon
the merits of such a question as this discussion involved ?
They ought not to be called upon to prejudice themselves by
taking any step which might be turned to their dissdvan-
tege. He could not help feeling—nay, he was certain in
his own mind, that one great object in pushing this
question to day, was to torce the Council to give an
opinion, to take advantage of that opinion, to g ) armed
with that opinion to the House of Commons, and declare that
they had got the latest opinion of the Council, and that they,
and not the deputation, spoke the sentiments of the Council,
(Hear, hear, "No, no.") Now, he asked the Council,as re-
presentatives of the ratepayers of Liverpool, were they
prepared to take that step, which might, and very
probably would, end in entailing an amount of taxation
upon them which was unknown ? Were they prepared, for
the sake of consulting the feelings of gentlemen—however
desirabie it might be at the proper time to consu'•t their
feelings—to stultify themselves, and take a step of which
they might hereafter repent, and merely fit the sake of
avoiding a delay of three or four days at the utmost. He
would like to know what possible evil could result from
the course which he advocated? Mr. Turner might sty
that it would be thought he ha 1 not given satisfaction in
the position he had occupied, as one of the representatives
of the Ceuncil in the Dock Committee. Be it so Sup-
pose even that it were so, he was prepared to express an
opinion of that sort, sooner than he would jeopard;ze the
the property of the town for the sake of giving a gentle-
man's feelings three days' respite. (Hear, hear.) Sow, after
the discussion which had taken place in that room, what
bad been the result? The motion for adjournment had been
njected by a majority of one. He asked, was it proper,
was it decent, to force upon the Council, wi h a single
majority of one, the discussion and determinaiion of a
question of that kind, which might be fraught with ruin
to their interests ? He implored the Council to
pause before they proceeded to a decision. An oppor-
tunity was again afforded by the motion he was about to
make to tide the matter over fora day or two. A minority
in the House of Commons had, and properly had, ; he power,
in order that they should not be forced by the majority
into any precipitate step, to postpone the question by a
series of mAions for adjournment, until time had been
obtained for its consideration. That was repeatedly done
iu the House of Commons, and he called upon the
minority then in the Council Chamber to follow the example.
He concluded by moving as an amen iment that the
Council do adjourn at once until the following Tuesday, at
eleven o'clock.

Mr. BECKWITH felt much pleasure in secondirg the
amendment.

Mr. TURNER said that was the first time he ever re-
c3llected in that Council. room, that after a motion f,r
adjournment had been rejected, it was repea'ed. There
was a motion for the adjournment of the Council made,
and, after a long di, cussion, that motion was negatived.
1 he usual course taken in all these proceedings. under such
circumstances, was to vote upon the general question.
It had been said by Mr. Picton that this
was not a personal question. If anything
could prove that he (Mr. Turner) was right when
he said it was a personal question, it would be the second
motion for adjournment, because it was impossible for any
man, with a head upon his shoulders—and Mr. Picton
had a very good head on his shoulders —could suppose that
that that motion could be attended with any benefit to the
town or the ratepayers What had been the allegation
which he had been bearing in London from time to time ?
It was, that the Corporation of Liverpool cared for nothing
except their own pecuniary interest., and that they were
regardless of the trade and commerce of the town. (Oh,
oh.) He had heard that accusation, and had
frequently rebutted it. No person had acted
for the interests of the ratepayers of Liverpool
more than he had himself, and was he to be
told that, after six ear's service in the chair of the Dock
Committee, during the whole of which he never had any
difference of opinion with the Council on auy one paint—
was he to be told that his re-election must be delayed for
days, for the interest of the to sn. (Cheers) Be was
told so by Mr. Picton, and he said that it was made a per-
sonal question by Mr. Picton. (Cries of " No, no.")
Yes, it, was mads a personal question, and a political ques-
tion. (Cries of " No, no.") He said it was so. That
was what he believed, and he twist express his belief. He
heard Mr. Picton say "no," but it orig.nated there.
Mr. BANNER thought Mr. Turner had no right to say
that that was made a political question. (Hear, hear.)
He voted for and supported[r. Turner politically with
all his heart, elthough he was one of those who voted for
the adjournment.

Mr. TURNER : I am not speaking of the first motion for
adjournment, I am speaking of the repeated motion for
adjournment.
Mr. TOBIN thought the remark scarcely proper upon the
part of lir. Turner. The parties who moved the adjourn-
ment thought, no doubt, that they were promoting the
interests of the town and of the community. (.11ean)
Mitt TURNER said he was quite sure 'M-. Tobin believed
it. He, however, felt bound to say he did not believe
that the parties who moved the second ajourntnent be-
lieved they were promoting the interests of the rate payers.
He would not say what he did not believe, and he did not
believe that. It was impossible for any gentlemen to
believe that such would be the effect Was he to go to
London to negociate matters of the kind, with a sort of
threat hanging over his head, that if he exercised his
judgement to the best of his ability, acting fairly, as he
always did and always intended to do, to the Coun-
cil one side, and the trade- of the pert on the other,
he was liable to have no re-election on Saturday? He
begged to say it would be impossible far him to act under
such circumstances. If it was the pleasure of the Council
to suspend the election that day, he had respectfully to
state that he would stay at home until the question was
settled. He could not attend the D ck Committee, nor take
part in the proceedings pending before parliament while
his election was postponed for. four or five or six days
a very unueual course, unexampled in his recollection, and
which he believe" had never been adop'el. He had been
planed in what m'ght, perhaps, be called an unfortunate
position in this metier. He ceuld assure the Council—
and he could express it even in the presence of the re I
porters, to go forth to the t even—that he lied combatted
in the Dock Committee moat strongly for what he believed
to be the true interests of the Corporation ; and in that
committee he had combatted' also for the trade of the port.
There were gentlemen of extreme views on b>th sides.
There were geudemen in the D3ck,Committee who, during
the proceedings, said to him. " You are a member of the
Council, and you are not taking the interests of the dock-
rate-payers into account." On the other hand he would
be told, he °resumed by the gentlemen who were moving
the adjournment, that while in the Council he was thinking
of nothing but the lock rate-payere. Now, he thought,
it was the business of every man to do what he thought
right and fair to both parties in the question. The dock
estate and the Corporation had each a very large interest
in the town. On the well-being of both those
immense estates the prosperity of the town hung.
It was a great source of satisfaction to him
that, during the six years while he filled the chair of
the Dock Committee, there never had been a quarrel
between the Dock Committee and the Council. Some
gentlemen said that he did not sufficiently advocate the
interest of the Council. He had opposed the Mersey
Conservancy Bill from first to last with the utmost of his
ability in the interests of the Council. He considered it a
matter of spoiliation, a most unjust attack upon the
Council, and when it passed through the House of Com-
mons, the first thing he observed to the Dock Committee
wag, that he thought they ought to oppose the bill with
their utmost vigour, and not to submit to such an at'empt,
which would, take away £l4O 000 a year from the
Council, for the paltry sum of £600,000. He always
exerted himself to obtain a much larger amt unt for the
Council or Corporation, and he thought two millions would
have been much nearer to the mark, and would still have
been an inadequate compensation. On the other hand,
as a member of the Dock Committee, he was bound to
say that, during the negotiations, the trade of the
port was not impoperly trammelled. Ha endeavoured
to do his duty between the two ieteres' R. He was opposed
to as alteration of the trust. The Council represented
half of the constituency of the Dock Committee, and he
considered that when a gentleman attended that committee
he represented the Town Council as well as the dock rate-
payers. He had always endeavoured to act upon this
principle, and he therefore considered it unjust that a sort
of stigma should be cast upon him, as if he did not do his
duty, in the"place where the Council had done him the
honour of electing him. He could truly say that he felt it
a high honour to be the chairman of the Dock Committee,
and he felt it an honour to be a member of the Council
He had done his duty in each capacity without fear,
favour, or affection, and to the best of his ability. He
had supported the interests of the Council and the dock
ratepayers, and it was a libel upon him for any gentleman