The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-03-12 00:00:00

THE NORTH ERN TIMES.----LIVERPOOL, THU RS DAY.

that Mr. Weightman should complete the building he had
in hand. He had, however, delegated a la-rge portion of
the work to his son. His son made nearly the whole of the
plans, and did a very large portion of the measurement
' of the work : and during the time he (Mr. Hohne) was in
business, he erected part of the building himsel', and had
very few communications with Mr. Weightman, but
almost always bad to communicate with his son, the
former not being able to attend to it. He should be
allowed to make one remark when Mr. Jeffrey spoke
about the surveyor being princely paid. He said, with..
out without fear of contradiction, that the surveyor was
well worth the money he received. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. Ji ffitey : I did not say he was not.
Mr. Holme said, instead of his getting a princely salary
the Surveyor could make double the amount by his
private practice. if he were not in the employment of the
Corporation. He should say, in justice to the surveyor,
thst he wad himself present upon one occasion, when
by his dexterity and knovidedne, the surveyor saved the
Corporation in one moment £l,OOO, the whole amount of
a year's salary, which, if they had had any blandering
fellow in their employment, would have been lost to the
Corporation. (Hear, hear.) He contended that the
surveyor was well worth the money he received, and
having taken the situation with the express stipulation
that he was to complete the building for the parish, of
course the parish would have called noon hint to do so,
and, therefore, the whole of Mr. Jeffrey's arguments
upon that point fell to the ground.
Mr. Sheil complained that the. Council had not been
well treated, in the first instance, by the Finance Com
miitee or else the surveyor. If the return could tint
possibly be made, the Council ought to have been tol l
so. - If it would be uaLless When completed, the Council
ought to have had that fact fully explained If it could
only be completed and made available at great cost, the
Council ought to have been told what the cost would be,
and it would have been i hen for them to say whether they
would proceed with the undertaking. One argument
which had been used he should decidedly, as a merchant
and as a man of business, object to. They were told that
Mr. Topping could give all the information, Noma he
would ask any merchant in the room if, when he went to
his book-keeper and asked to see the balance sheet, the
statement of his affairs, the book-keeper replied, "I
have no balance sheet, but I can tell you how
every one of your affairs stands"—would that
be regarded as a satisfactory answer? (Hear, hear.)
What the Council wanted was their balance sheet,
a statement of the CerporatiOn property, to let them
know how it stood, and judge, so far as their weak judg-
ment would enable them, whether it was applied in the
most profitable manner for the benefit of the community.
Mr. Earle thought Mr. Sheil took a very erroneous
view of the question. How could they have a balance
sheet of leases eternally changing every year ?
Mr. Holme : The regular balance sheet of the Corpora-
tion is published every year, (Hear, bear.)
Mr. Etrle said some time since he sat upon a committee
respecting the improvement of the town, by which an
elaborate statement was made, which was printed and
published. In that statement were allusions to various
leases in different parts of the town. He went over
many of those leases himself. He sought the information
from Mr. Topping, and he got throughout the whole of
Bold stree.s every single particular of information he wanted
from that gentleman, with the greatest facility imaginable.
That information ho laid before the committee. Now, he
ventured to say, that if he were to take the memoranda
he then made, and which he believed he still
had in his possession, and wont into B )141 street at the present
day, he should find the whole character of the street altered
during the interval. (Hear, hear.) Therefore he thought it
utterly impossible that they could have what Mr. Shoji called
a balance sheet laid before them of that sort of property. He
could not understand why gentlemen should express such
surprise that the surveyor had not yet prepared this return.
The greater part of it, as had been already shown, must be
done by himself. No one could go into the surveyor's.office,
or attend the different committees without being struck by the
enormous amount of business he had to attend to. It was
the same with the Town Clerk, and the same with the inferior
clerks. He wondered how all their heads stood it. Talk of
the princely salary of £l,OOO a year—Ll,ooo a year was no
princely salary for a man like Mr. Weightman, who could get
double the sum by his own business. Ho would adyiso Mr
Weightman to quit the situation.
Mr. Alderman Parker said it was very easy to find fault.
He thought it hardly fair of one gentleman, Mr. Jeffery, to
attack the character of the surveyor in the manner he had
done that day. The personal allusions he had made to that
gentleman—for a gentleman he was in every sense of the
word—

Mr: Jeffery : I rise to a point of order. I did not attack
Mr. We'ghttnan's character.
Mr. Parker : Not his character ?
Mr. Jeffery : No ; I inade no attack upon his character.
Mr. Parker: If it was not a personal attack, I do not
undetstald what a personal attack is.

Mr. Jeffery : Ho is a public officer of this Corporation,
and as such I dealt with him. To his character I made no
reference whatever.

Mr. Parker : As a public officer he has as much at stake as
any other gentleman. His character stands too high in the
Council, and in the town at large, to be affected. These
insinuations, I think, are contemptible. Mr. Parker then
replied, at somo length, to the remarks of Mr. Sheil, adding
that ho always felt in the pith of duty when attacked by Mr
Sheil. He felt complimented by Mr. Sheil, and he thanked
him. (Laughter). The Finance Committee were not in the
least affected by the scoffs and scorns of Mr. Sheil. (Laughter).
Mr. Beckwith replie Ito Mr, Parker, and in doing so stated,
to show the necessity of such a return, that he knew of cases
where officers of the Corporation lived in houses belonging to
the Corporation, who never, for years, paid one shilling of rent.
(Cries of " Name.")
Mr. Holme : If you tell me who they are, I will see that
they are made to pay.
Mr. B-ckwith said the houses were on Shaw's brow.
There were two houses there occupied by one of the servants
of the corporation who for years had never paid one shilling
rent. There was no secret about it; although the committee
might not be in possession of the fact. He knew it to be
correct, and he could point out the property.
Mr. Brancker having said a few words,

Mr. Holm° claimed to be allowed to address the Council,
contending that This previous remarks were not a speech, but
merely a reply to the questions asked.
Mr. Glachtone sa'd if Mr. Holme's was not a speech he
did not know what a speech was. There was a long preamble
and a statement regarding the amount of work with which the
surveyor was oppressed, and what he could do and what he
could not.

A lengthened altercation then followed npon Mr. Holme's
right of reply. Mr. Hodson rose and endeavoured to address
the Council, but several gentlemen called for the question of
order to bo decided.

The Mayor said he thought they had become somewhat
irregular. In strict order, he thought the question and the
reply should have ended the matter. (Hear, hear.) He
thought, however, that as the debate had gone on, and state-
ments had been made, Mr. floline, having only intended to
answer the question in the first instance, out to be now allowed
to speak.

Mr. Gladstone contended that, under no circumstances, could
Mr. Holine now have a right to speak. He decidedly differed
with the Mayor: He begged to ask, did the Mayor think he
(Mr. Gladstone) had a right to reply ?
The Mayor : Yes, I think you have.
Mr. Gladstone; Well, I must again differ with you, for, in
point of strict ordtr, Ido not think I have. (Great laughter.)
In the meantime, during the somewhat noisy altercation
which was going on, Mr. Holtne, finding his desire to speak
opposed by several members, took his hat, and left the room.
Finally, Mr. Gladstone observed that the matter was settled
by the fact that there were not members enough in the room to
form a Council.

The members then dispersed, Mr. Gladstone exclaiming
that they were giving a Fp!endid opportunity to their enemies
by throwing obstaclea in the way of procuring a return of the
corporate property.

FEARFUL SCENE IN A CLIAPEL.—SHIELDS, March 9
A dreadful scene occurred list night in a new chapel
opened by the Wesl.v.an Reformers in North Shields.
The Rev. W. Griffith, a popular preacher in that body,
was preaching one of the opening sermons. The chapel
was crowded, trio aisles as well as the pews being filled
with people, when in the middle of the rev. gentleman's
discourse a cry was raised in the gallery of " Fire!" and
on lookinz up to a dome light in the roof, the congregatir a
saw that the gas had set fire to the ceiling, and was licking
its way along the woodwork in an alarming manner.
They appeared to be fascinated for a moment, and then,
amid screams and shouts, a general rush was made to the
doors. Many women fainted, and the scene that followed
was of the most alarming and fearful character. Several
of the officers of the church, however, are seafaring men,
and with the usual promptitude of their class, they kept
back the crowd. By a fortunate coincidence, Mr. W.
Gray, a shipbroker, was letting a woman and child out of
one of the front doors at the moment he heard the crowd
rushing from the gallery, and he threw it open. Another
person, a local preacher, who was returning from an out—
station, was also coming in by the other front door, and he
threw it open, so that the crowd had free egress. Three
or four hundred persons were also got out by the back
doors, and—what is, perhaps, almost unprecedented in
a panic:of this character—the whole of the densely packed
congregation was got out without the least personal
injury. ;a The preacher and the offers exhibited
manly courage and self possession during th* whole of
the trying scene, and they deserve every credit for the
spirit they showed in resisting the cowardice of the
crowd. Some women also exhibited noble self posses-
sion. The same class of men who showed so much true
courage in clearing out the people very speedily extin_
gnished the fire without any serious damage having been
one to the chapel.