Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1859-02-18 00:00:00

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DOCK BOARD.
The usual weekly meeting of the Mersey Docks and
Barbour Board was held yesterday, Mr. Charles Turner
in the chair. The other gentlemen present were —Messrs.
Anderson, Bushell, Farnworth, Rankin, Shand, Little-
tale) Brocklebank, Hubback, Boult, Monde', Bold,
,isvans, Hutchison, Segar, Forwood, Arnold, Inman,
nounthwaite, Langton, Lockett, Moss, and Tobin.

WORKS COMMITTEE.
The proceeding's of this committee contained a recom-
mendation to adopt two reports of the engineer, in
reference to the extension of docks. The first report
proposed some alterations north of the Canada dock,.
for the accommodation of the timber and carrying trade,
and the other dock was proposed to be made at the south
east side of the Huskisson dock, for the accommodation
of the steam trade. The estimated cost of the proposed
work
Was as follows : carriers' dock, £100,869 ; half-tide
"461 a and passage, £92,713 ; northward lock for timber
float and jetty,£ 20, 374 ; total, £213,956.
liubback moved the, confimation of the pro-
ceedings.
Mr. Smith moved that the plans lie on the table for
another week, as many gentlemen had not had an oppor-
tunity of examining them, or making themselves
acquainted with them.
Mr. Littledale seconded the motion of Mr. Smith.
Mr. Boult suggested, that it would be well to hold
some further communication with the Leeds and
-Liverpool Canal Company in reference to this matter.
, The Chairman said, from the notices they had given,
they were debarred from this.
Mr. Boult said, he nuclei-Stood from the surveyor that,
6°lne four or five years ago, communication was held
with them, but the company.would not meet with their
,views- If this were the case, then it lay in the corn-
t'anYs' hands, and they could not help themselves; but it
seemed obvious that it would be a great facility if commu-
nication could be had with them. He thought the com-
pany, for their own interest, might look at the question
In another point of view.
, Ur. Brocklebank said, that it would be better not to
the chairman, he altered his motion, so as to except the
Plans in the confirmation of the proceedings.
It was accordingly agreed that the plans should lio on
the table till next week, and then to come up for con-
sideration.

WAREHOUSE COMMITTEE.
The proceedings of the warehouse committee were read.
They contained nothing calling for special remark, and
on the motion of Mr. Hubback, were confirmed.

MARINE COMMITTEE.
Tke proceedings of this committee contained a recom-
niendation to grant Mr. Hill £2.), to enable him to pub-
lish a volume of sailing directions which he had com-
piled.

Mr. Monde', before moving the confirmation of the
proceedings, moved that the recommendation be approved
(:),f; He considered it was only due to the young man for
" painstaking. The grant would not involve any
responsibility on the board as to the publication itself.
Mr. Shand thought there was some inconsistency in the
ooard making this grant, as the pilot committee had
issued some directions

The Chairman said, perhaps Mr
the matter to the pilot committee.
Mr. Mondel objected to this, and said that he con-
sidered the pilot committee only an executive one.
The Chairman said, that perhaps the matter came a
little out of the usual course, but it arose in this wav—

Mendel would refer

•
that Mr. Hills was a very active servant of the marine
committee, and a very deservinc, one, and the chairman
of the committee thought he deserved some encourage-
ment in a matter of this kind.

After some- further observations, in which it was
stated by Mr. Mondel that there had been no authentic
publication issued for the last twenty years, of sailing
directions in the port of Liverpool, it was agreed that the
£2O be given Mr. Hills for his valuable services.
The proceedings were then confirmed.
The proceedings of the several other committees were
read, but they contained nothing calling for special notice,
and were accordingly confirmed without opposition.
The Chairman then said, the next business before the
board was the question of the rating of the docks, in
connection with the bill now before Parliament.
that Smith rose and said, it came to the knowledge of
board for the first time formally last Thursday, and
then •
in consequence of the reading of the pro-
ceedings of the Parliamentary Committee, stating
What action had been taken by them during the
.eourse of the preceding week in reference to a bill that
as in parliament, or was about to be brought into par-
. anient, for the purpose of rating the docks. This sub-
ject had certainly never been brought before the board
rrev;
en 13usly, and he believed even to that moment,
menrything that he knew, the majority of the
of
thiers might be ignorant of. It was in consequence
u.
.that he and several other gentlemen siped a
thatre
that board
ion to the chairman to call a special meeting of
as early as possible, because they considered
e subject was of such immense importance, and
vmying:the interest of that estate so seriously, that it ma
aPPear to him and others that there ought not to be one
moment of delay. Before proceeding with the discussion
ofn
the question, he would venture to make one or two re-
marks.
It certainly appeared to him extraordinary that
When the solicitor presented his annual report of the bills
about to be brought into Parliament affecting that estate,
a 9 which report was referred to the parliamentary com-
mittee, he confessed it appeared to him somewhat extra-
ordinary that the committee never reported to that board,
never made any recommendation as to what steps should
°e adopted with reference to this important bill.
whether that arose from inadvertance, or whether the
Parliamentary committee of the board once appointed, it
Was to be understood that it became an authority, inde-
pendent and superior to the authority of the
board itself, he did not know, but he was
Bar, e the chairman would excuse him for mentioning this
elreurnstance indeed, he almost anticipated he should
get his thanks, and the thanks of every member of the
committee, for bringing this matter under the attention
of the board, and giving them an opportunity of explain-
ing what to him appeared to be a mystery. He would
'IOW proceed to the real question for discussion. That the
question of rating the docks was an important question was
evident, for they found that almost every town in this
County,l,,, and from other places, they had opposition.
-"'1 lig the dock interest into consideration, if they went
back,;_ they might go back to the origin of the docks
in Liverpool, some 150 years ago. He thought if there
Was one thing that struck the attention more than another,
,
was the wisdom of the men of that generation, who,
knowing the law of the land, that if they created docks,
and dealt with these docks upon the principle that they
Would have general and national purposes, and that there
should be no beneficial interests, they knew that they
Would not be subject to rating ; and the law that existed.
thou existed now ; and it was under such a law that this
town had risen from a paltry village. Even within the
last century there was not 20,000 inhabitants in the
Place ; now,
to judge by the return from the income-tax
of Liverpool, it stood undoubtedly the second town
th.
; the kingdom. And why so ? What had made
Lt se ? It was the docks ; it was the locality
in which the docks were placed, and the town being
placed so approximate to the manufactories of the kingdom.
his was what made Liverpool the prosperous place it
Was. (Hear, hear.) Who were those who were getting
111) the opposition to this valuable system which had
brought
such prosperity to the town of Liverpool ? He
authorities
they were in the first instance the parish
Litaorities, supported by the council—by, he believed, the
-mflimous vote. But, really, who were the
Wetish. authorities, and who were the council ?
wondered how many of these men could trace
their
TheY back to thoSe wise men who
rst established docks. He believed very few of them.
,The great majority of the inhabitants of this town
Fow, were strangers who had come here to seek their
°dunes under the system that existed, and under which
many of them had risen to opulence and station. He
Was surprised that there had not been a better considera-
tion given to this subject, and that there should be on
'',lle part of the town of Liverpool such bitter opposition.
The inhabitants of Liverpool were composed of two
,?lasses, the occupiers of property and the owners. He
had a very strong conviction that it was the owners of
Property who were the great movers in this question.
Looking at the immediate result, probably they were
right ; but looking at it more generally, he was
net quite satisfied but the action which went
to destroy the present laws would retort back upon them-
selves. As to owners of property, he could understand
the motive of their opposition. If by charging some-
thing like one-half of the general rates against that
estate, the rates of occupiers of property would be re-
duced one-half, and he could imagine that owners of
Property could then, on the other hand, raise the rent
ten per cent. This would be a motive for immediate
action. Bnt in reference to the occupiers, it appeared to
him that if these gentlemen considered their own interest,
they would rise one and all in opposition to this bill.
"id they imagine that if the rates were reduced one-
half, that their landlords would permit them to get
the whole of -the advantage. If these gentlemen
only knew human nature a little better, they would think
otherwise. He was an owner of property himself, to
to some extent, and he would say, rate these docks, and
reduce the taxes of my tenants ; and what would be his
action ? Why he would conceive that he should have a
fair opportunity to raise their rents ; and would it not be the
action &f every owner of property? Undoubtedly it would.
The occupiers, then, would find themselves no better as
regards rates and taxes ; adding all together and they
might do something to affect the trade of tills port and

diminish those profits by which those rates and
taxes were paid. The next point of view upon
which he would -look- at this question would be as
regards- the debt upon the estate and the interests of then
bondholders. He knew he was touching upon delicate
ground, but they had now a debt of nearly seven millions
upon that estate, and they had obligations iMposed on
them by which they should anticipate this debt would be
increased in a short time to twelve millions, and a large
proportion of that increase was to be spent upon property
lately come into the hands of the estate -he meant at
Birkenhead'. And although he wished those works would
turn out as well as their most sanguinary advocates pre-
dicted, still, they could not hope that in the four millons
which it would take to complete the work, they could
realise more than one half of that, which they
should require to pay the interest on the money
that they borrowed for the execution of this work.
Looking, therefore, upon the position of this estate, any
attempt to lay such another load upon its shoulders as
this rating would be, if the bill passed through parlia-
ment, would, he was sure, prevent the possibility of the
estate carrying out these works, which they were now
doing as earnestly as they possibly could. He had before
him a list of arguments in opposition to the rating of
the docks, and these arguments were, many of them,
very good; and he saw there was one which showed
that, if they succeeded in passing this bill, and if
the affairs of the corporation were not in a little
more prosperous state, it would absolutely become
necessary to levy a borough rate, and the effect of that
would be actually to make the commerce of the country
pay for supplying the inside wants of the people of Liver-
pool in their own private houses. He thought that he
had said enough to show that the action on this bill
ought to be as decisive as it was possible to be. He
thought he had fairly introduced the subject, and he told
them -what he felt was his duty to say upon the matter.
He concluded by moving the following resolution :
" That the standing orders be suspended for
the purpose of adding the names of three
gentlemen to the names of the gentlemen forming the
present parliamentary committee, and to be considered
a special parliamentary committee for the purpose of
opposing, by all legitimate means, the bill now before
parliament for the purpose of rating the docks."

Mr. Bold remarked, that there were two separate
motions in the resolution, and that Mr. Smith moved fir: t,
the suspension of the standing orders.
This was agreed to, and the resolution was accordingly
divided, and put as two distinct motions.
Mr.. Arnold seconded the propositions of Mr. Smith.
He perceived that no private bill promoted for the rating
of the docks could have a very good ground of defence ;
but as against any general bill that might be introduced
by the government for rating all public works, they
might not be successful in resisting the application of it
to that estate. He considered with Mr. Smith that they were
in a very anomalous position in reference to this question.
They had as promoters of this bill the Corporation of
Liverpool, and upon that board were a number of mem-
bers of that corporation, and they had not yet any
exposition of . the views of these gentlemen on this
question, and considering the importance of the question,
he thought it had not been considered as it deserved. If
this bill passed, it might involve the estate into £50,000
or £60,000 a-year, and considering the works they were
carrying on on the other side of the water, and
these were only the forerunner of other works
of this sort which would have to be
carried out as the trade of the port advanced. He con-
sidered the success they had met with in parliament gave
them some encouragement to relax their exertions for
carrying on their works on the other side of the water
(cries of •' No," "No "), and he thought the next best
step would be to go to parliament, and get them to re-
duce the plans and the enormous expenditure involved
in those. works. That however might be beside the
question, but he begged to second Mr. Smith's proposi-
tion.

The Chairman said, he could not but think that the
bringing forward this motion in the way it was, was
rather an ungracious proceeding of the parliamentary
committee. (Cries of No," "No.") He would explain
his reasons. He did not say it was intentionally so, but
it was so, and the whole tenor of Mr. Smith's speech would
bear to Vie publio mind that the parliamentary committee had
been remiss in their exertions in the opposition to the
rating bill. Mr. Smith had said that this question was
never reported to the board until the proceedings of the
last board day, while the solicitor, in his annual report,
submitted it, and it was the first bill mentioned in that
report, and the proceedings of the parliamentary commit-
tee had bean read to the board after that report was
referred to them, and the proceedings of the committee
were reported on last Thursday, which meeting he was
not at, because he was in London opposing this very bill
which Mr. Smith had brought before the board. It
never entered into his conception for a moment to bring
the bill before the board as a distinct motion for the
purpose of ascertaining the opinion of the board, with
which he was pretty well acquainted, and he believed
that there was not a dissentient on in' ion in
reference to
tee resistance that snouiu ue given to cnis
public bill should be brought into parliament, which Mr.
Arnold had suggested, it would be for the parliamentary
committee to see what that bill was, and what were its
clauses, and whether it could be successfully opposed.
But this was a matter of future consideration. As to a
psivate bill, however, he thought there could be no dif-
ference of opinion. To make the docks rateable by a
private bill was most unjust and improper, and 'therefore
to bring the subject specially before the board, it having
been already substantially before them, appeared to
him a work entirely of supererogation. He thought it
his duty to communicate in the first instance with one
of the heads of—Government on the subject, asking for
an interview. Subsequently he and other members of the
committee had an interview Edith the Board of Trade,
and in the presence of 20 or 30 members of parliament,
and the solicitor of the board, at the request of the com-
mittee, drew up a number of arguments against the bill,
which were now before them, and which were extensively
circulated. He did say that for the last fortnight the
exertions of the parliamentary committee had been
untiring, and to bring forward a motion the
effect of which was that they had been relax, and that it
was necessary for three other gentleman to .be put on the
parliamentary committee to enable them to do their duty,
was certainly, perhaps not intended, casting a reflection
upon the existing committee. He alluded tcethe exertions
of Mr. Tobin, and concluded by expressing a hope that
the board would leave the matter in the hands of the
present committee, and place confidence in them, for he
believed they were able to carry on the opposition, and
that efficiently.
Mr. Monde' said, as one of the members who signed
the requisition for a special meeting to consider the sub-
ject; he would just say a word or two. The chairman, as
a member of the parliamentary committee, might have
performed his duty in the best sense of
the word, but if the members of the board
had reason to doubt, when they came to consider the
constitution of the Parliamentary Committee, whether
they were all sincere in their opinion ; he thought they
were justified in taking such a step if they had any such
opinion. And the majority, five • of the parliamentary
committee, were members of the Town Council, and.the
other gentlemen had given no expression of their views
upon this question. Now, the opinion of the Parli-
amentary Committee was the opinion of the board, and
whatever the committee might do, the board were bound
by it. He thought, therefore, it was due to the board
that they should be acquainted with the sentiments of
the committee before they took action in the matter.
They had had no such expression on the part of the
parliamentary committee, and he therefore felt justified
in signing the requisition calling the special meeting.
He had great confidence in the chairman, but there were
other members whose conduct he thought was open to
imputation. He thought he saw one member of the
parliamentary committee,—(cries of " name, name.")
He was not called upon to name, and there were other
members who were connected with a deputation from
the other side of the water whose interests were antago-
nistic to the interests of Liverpool. (Hear, hear.)
- Mr. Littledale said, after the straightforward, clear,
and manly expositions of the chairman, they now knew
what his opinions were, and he (Mr. Littledale) thought
they, from the able manner in which the chairman per-
formed his duty, were bound to give him their confidence
to the utmost limits. He stated this, although he was
one who signed the requisition.
Mr. Forwood said he joined with Mr. Littledale in
what he said in reference to the chairman. For he (the
chairman), at all events, would endeavour to the utmost
of his power to prevent this bill passing, and prevent
such a serious incubus being placed upon them at a time
when they were so anxious as to their obligations. He
thought they ought to congratulate themselves, as mem-
bers of that board, upon the success which had attended
the efforts of the parliamentary committee in London,
and,-at the same time, they should not forget the good
results likely to flow from' the works bill. He was glad
this discussion was allowed to take place, because it would
show that the members of the Dock Board were not
blind upon a question of such importance as the
rating of the Liverpool docks. He suggested that if
the arguments which had been drawn up were more
largely disseminated, it would go far to set aside the
opposition. In the list of reasons placed in the hands
of those who supported the rating, the first was
" that the Liverpool docks were now the only commercial,
docks in the kingdom which were not rated." He
asked, was that a sufficient' reason for rating the Liver-
pool doCks ? They knew very well that the London
docks .were in the possession of
,private companies, and
from each of them -a benefit was derived. The South-

ampton docks werein the same position, and in all other
ports they were the same ; but Liverpool was an hon-
ourable exception to this rule, owing to the wisdom of
those who-formed them. They derived no individual or
-personal interest as a town, except what was derived
from them as a portion of national interest. The next
argument was that the docks in Birkenhead, were rated
and under the same trust. These were purchased from
private companies' but were under the law of the board
liable to be rated. He believed this was one of the
unfortunate legacies of that precious bargain.
The Chairman said that by the late decision of the
courts of law, they were not liable to be rated, as there
was now no beneficial interest.
Mr. Forwood said, the next argument was, that in-com-
mercial dulness the docks created a great amount of
pauperism. They Might as well tax the contrary winds
as the docks for this. (Laughter.) He would ask these.
men, if the ships were discharged in the stream would
that not create as much pauperism ; and would they tax
the Mersey ? Another reason was, that whole streets of
property had been taken down by the board, to make way
for these docks, and this property had been rated; but he
supposed if property was pulled down, the people would
go and live elsewhere, and houses would be built for
them, so that it only made the difference in the
district, and large warehouses were built along
the docks in place of this small property, which
were rated. The last 'point which he would speak
of was, that the rating of the docks was objected to by
parties out of Liverpool, because it might add something
more to the cost of passing their goods. If there was
one point more important than another, it was. that
Liverpool should be made the cheapest- place for the
importation and exportation of goods. They owed their
trade entirely to their connection with the manufacturing
districts. Within the last few years it was shown how
competition ran against them ' • and he would tell the
board that he got a letter to charter a ship to bring a
cargo of cotton home, and to discharge at Fleetwood ;
and the special reason assign& for discharging there was
that they could get plenty of orders from Blackburn and
round about there, and if he could so arrange, it would
save the town dues and dock rates, which amounted to
about 3s. a day. It was most material that the board
should endeavour to secnre their docks from auy other
charge, for upon them depended so much the pros-
perity of the population. In reference to that
part of Mr. Smith's resolution, asking for three additional
gentlemen to be placed on the committee, he thought it
would strengthen their hands, by a few more gentlemen
being placed on the committee.
Mr. Rankin thought their special thanks should be
given to the chairman for the efforts lie had made. If;
however, any gentleman felt that he would have any
influence with members of parliament, he would say by
all means let them go to London and use every exertion,
because much would depend on the efforts of gentlemen
for their success.

Mr. Bushell said he thought Mr. Smith and the other
gentlemen who had acted with him in requesting a
special meeting, had full justification in the facts that
existed. With regard to this question of the Corporation,
it was not a question of personality, or integrity, in any
members of the parliamentary committee, but a question
of anomaly in relation to the position in which
some members stood who were on the parliamentary
committee. Five of them were distinguished members
of the Town Council, and he found by a report of the
proceeding's of that body on the 29th November, that it
was moved and carried unanimously that the health com-
mittee should confer with the parish authorities for the
purpose of rating all public property. Upon that report,
and upon that fact hinged this whole, question. Were
the members of that board who were members of the
Town Council present at that meeting, and if not, why
were they not ? He would take it on either grounds.
If they were present, did they consent to this motion ?
Were they a part of the gentlemen there assembled who
adopted this motion unanimously ? He knew that the
Town Council was a popular representative assembly, the
representatives of the shop interests and householders,
if he might so speak, and the interests of trade. On the
occasion which he referred to, there was not one member
of the dock board found to stand up and protest against
that vote. He considered it was the duty of their Chair-
man, at all events, to have got up and, protested against
the decision, and said, inasmuch as by the position he
held at the Dock Board, it would become his duty to op-
pose, by every means in his power, the rating of the docks.
Now then, he would say he wanted to know what was
the position of the gentlemen of the parliamentary com-
mittee who were members of the Town Council. Let a
clever lawyer get hold of them, • and ask them did they
represent the Town Council or the Dock Board. The
answer do doubt would be that they appeared for the
interest of the Dock Beard; but he knew what a handle
could be made of this. With regard to the general
question, if ever there was a case illustrative of killing the
goose that layed the golden egg this certainly was a
practical illustration. It was perfectly monstrous that a
gentleman like Mr. Dover, as Chairman of the Health
Committee, should be permitted to get up and make an
poor of Liverpool, while the interests of the poor had
nothing to do with it. It was the rich that would be
benefitted, and not the poor. Mr. Smith had already
explained that, although the occupier would get some
benefit, yet in the end it would be the owners of houses
who would receive the benefit, and put the rates into
their own special and particular pockets. He had no
hesitation in saying this. The masses were moved,
as they always were, by those who were interested. Mr.
Smith had made some remarks as to Liverpool rising to
be the first commercial port in the world, from the locality
in which she was placed. She was a mouth to the
stomach. The manufacturing districts were the stomach,
and the mouth always received some pleasure from what
passed into the stomach. This was the position of Liver-
pool. He never was more astonished in his life, than
when he read that the vote was passed in the Town
Council, and not one word said in remonstrance. It
might have been, that ifremonstrance were given at that
time, this opposition might have been saved. A more
suicidal act never was perpetrated. He supposed in the
case of the government erecting a large - -dock yard, the
public would give a very large premium rather than not
have it erected ; and he considered that the benefit
to be derived from these establishments, were infinitely
greater than any rates that could be gained from them,
and yet this paltry view was taken of the docks, by' which
every tradesman and every shopkeeper, and every man in
business in the town, lived and had their existence. He
was aware it took great moral courage to take the un-
popular side of any question, but he did think the mem-
bers of the council, and of that board, should have
protested against this, as he would, by all means and
power of language which he had, against such a mon-
strous proposition. (Hear, hear.)
The Chairman said, Mr. Bushell had alluded to him
personally in this matter, and accused him of want of
duty, in not rising in the council when this matter was
brought forward. Now he did not consider it his duty to
bring dock affairs into debate, and raise up dock affairs
in the corporation of Liverpool. (Cries of •" Oh !
Oh !") Very well, he did not consider it in his public
capacity, as chairman of the dock board, he ought
to take that position in the town council. He
did think there was a timeand season for every-
thing, and the Corporation knew well that he was ready
to declare his sentiments, if necessary, if he thought
there would be any use of so doing. But he did not
think, looking at the feeling of the Council, that it would
be any use, when 60 out of 64 would have voted for the
motion. Mr. Bushell had stated that the vote was
unanimous, but Mr. Bushell knew very well what they
meant, as he must have often been placed in a similar
position, when he did not put an assembly to a division
just because he felt himself in so small a minority.
Unanimously did not necessarily mean that all present
were in favour of the motion. He must be allowed to
claim for himself as good courage in asserting his prin-
ciples when he knew that they would do good, as any
member of the board, but he had yet to learn that he had
not liberty to exercise his judgment as to where and when
he should exercise the right of asserting his principles. He
did not think that because he did not rise and declare
himself against the motion, that therefore he was in
favour of it. Whether he had acted efficiently or not
he would leave it to those gentlemen who were along
with him to say, but he had acted to the best of his
ability with regard to the dock estate, and he did not
think such imputations should be made on slight grounds.
There were other gentlemen present, among whom were
Mr. Tobin and Mr. Graves, of whom it could not bo
said they had not courage to express themselves.
Mr. Bushell : You have said I made an accusation.
The Chairman : Certainly.
Mr. Bushell : I have not made any accusation. I
appeal to the board. I merely pointed to the anomalous
position, and I do not see that you have given any
satisfactory reason why Mr. Smith's motion should not
be carried out. I imputed no dishonourable motive,
but simply pointed out the anomalous position.
Mr. Hutchison replied to some remarks of Mr. Bushell,
and presumed that he had as much right as Mr. Bushell
to hold an opinion, and to express that opinion. He
believed he was not in the Council at the time the motion
was passed. Mr. Bushell had said it took a great deal
of moral courage to take up the unpopular side of a
question, and. he had no scruple at all in saying that he
did think the docks ought to be rated for the poors'-rate.
Mr Boult made some lengthened remarks, in which
he referred to the ease with which the trade could be
driven away from the port, and stated that the traffic
had, within the last few years, been driven from
Liverpool to an enormous extent, by so trifling
a cause as railway charges. He stated this

as a <reason why they should take care that
no other charge was put upon =the docks that might
have the effect of driving the trade -from the port. He
concluded. by saying he would support Mr. Smith's
motion, as he did not consider it was casting any reffecl
tion upon the committee, for he believed they had done
their duty. to the best of their ability, and with great
success.
Mr. Anderson said he was not in the Council when
the motion, was brought forward, but he remembered on
a previous occasion when the subject was introduced,
that he said a great deal could be done on the other side.
He feared if a public bill was introduced, they would be
obliged to submit to it.
Mr. Evans said the members of the Council could no:
more get over the responsibility of that motion, than any
gentleman could take his name from a bill of a £l,OOO.
He thought it was not a time to be silent ~when such a
a resolution was brought forward.
Mr. Shand said the reason why he did. not speak on
the subject when it was brought forward at the Council,
was that it was so hurried over and carried in such a way
that no one had time to speak.
Mr. Bushell : That is an explanation.
Mr. Tobin said, the conduct of the Council had been
brought forward very prominently, and he was not sur-
prised that the vestry did take this measure before parlia-
ment, after the resolution of the Council. For his own
part, he never thought of speaking unless he thought he
could do some good. He did not think that it was a
good opportunity, or the most opportune time to say
anything on the subject that day at the
Council when the motion was introduced, and he
therefore kept silent. He did not blame Mr. Bushell and
others for expressing their opinions. This question
was for years well ventilated in the public press, and any
remarks that he would make would add nothing to
the enlightenment, and the committee reported on the
subject from tine to time. He read a resolution from
the minute-book of the parliamentary committee, express-
ing their unanimous decision to oppose by all means this
bill, and he asked what further opinion did the board
want than the unanimous resolution of the committee ; so
long, he said, as he was chairman of the parliamentary
committee, he would do his best to carry out to the best
of his efforts the interest of the estate, and if he could.
not do it conscientiously he would resign his seat, and if
the remarks of Mr. Bushell were intended to affect him
with his constituency at the next election, he could only
say that if his constituents were not satisfied with his
conduct, all-they had to do was to give an intimation to
that effect, and he would resign his seat at once into their

hands.
Mr. Bushell repeated that he attributed no persona!
motive, and he had the very highest opinion of Mr.
Tobin's integrity, and he did hope that Mr. Smith, having
got this expression of opinion from the parliamentary
committee, would withdraw his motion, and leave the
matter in their hands, which he believed they would carry
out with faithfulness.
Mr. Smith said, it was not out of the least disrespect
to the committee that he moved his resolution, but thek
gentlemen made mistakes, and they should be carefully
watched, and he thought every gentleman sitting at that
Board should raise these discussions for the purpose of
enlightening the public. Mr. Smith consented to
,with-
draw his motion, and the subject then dropped.
Mr. Tobin gave notice of motion that next week he
would call the attention of the Board to a statement made
in London, with reference to an alleged breach of faith
on the part of the Board.
This concluded the business.

THE LIVERPOOL AND LONDON INSURANCE

COMPANY

Yesterday afternoon, the 23rd annual general meeting
of the proprietors of the Liverpool and London Fire and
Life Insurance Company, was held at the company's
offices, Dale-street. There was a rather numerous
attendance, including Messrs. J. Tobin, J. B. Brancker,
J. H. Mulleneux, W. Earle, C. Parker, W. Hall, C.

Mozley, G. Holt, 'C. Rawlin;, T. Haigh,' P. Hunter, and
Lawrence Barclay. In the absenee of Mr. J. C. Ewart,

M.P , who was prevented by his engagiments in London
from attending, Mr. J. Tobin was called upon to take

the chair.

Mr. Swinton Boult, the secretary, read the following
report :
" The directors have again the pleasure to meet the
proprietors of the company in annual meeting, and to
submit to them a summary of the business of the year.
" That year has had impressed upon it no ordinary
degree the effects of the commercial disasters of 1857 ;
and it would be vain to expect, that an institution, such
as.this, which is identified with the mercantile interests
of the world, should escape altogether the consequences of
calamities by which, to so remarkable an extent,
those interests have been disturbed. By the
retirement of offices, whose business was not ade-
quate to the expense at which they were conducted,
opportunities have presented themselVes of acquiring
inereased connections in parts of the country where, up
to this time, less business has been derived than the
entitle it to look for ; and tfie'direCtors have noliEes-ifited
to avail of them, by agreeing first to an amalgamation
with the North of England Insurance Company, and
subsequently to take over the Fire Insurance Business of
the Bank of London and National Provincial Insurance
Company, measures which they doubt not will work to
the permanent advantage of the concern.
" CAPITAL. —ln the course of the year 140 shares have
been issued, and the number in the hands of proprietors
is now 94,351, representing at £2 a share a paid up capi-
tal of £188,702.
"FIRE DEPARTMENT.—The =lies to which the
directors have already adverted have occasioned a con-
siderable falling off in some branches of the fire business,
and that again has been aggravated by the necessity of
closing at an earlier period than usual the accounts of a
large proportion of the company's Foreign and
Colonial establishments, so that less than a full
year's receipts are comprised in the accounts now
produced. The steady progress of the company, however,
in those classes of risk which are little acted on by
temporary and passing movements, has done much to
compensate for the deficiency previously alluded to : and
as one evidence of the soundness of the policy hitherto
pursued, and of the increasing hold upon public favour
the office is steadily obtaining, it may be mentioned that
its Fire business in London is now Fifty per cent greater
than that of any other office of provincial origin: The
premiums of the year mount to £276,058 75., and the
. losses to £190,372 12s. 7d.
" LIFE DEPARTMENT: —The number of policies issued
during the year is 757, insuring £507,175, and pro-
ducing in premiums, £15,069 5s sa. The total income
from premiums was £121,411 10s 9d, and the claims
amounted to £53,660 Ils 9d. Making allowance for
the circumstances of the year, it will be found that
there is every reason to be satisfied with that result.
Indeed the success which attends this branch of
the company's operations is the best evidence that its
system of business, if peculiar, is at all events acceptable
to the public, and that there is a considerable class who
prefer the certainty of its guarantees to the chances of
greater things which tempt them elsewhere. The sum
received in purchase of annuities was £17,267 is 4d, and
the amount paid to annuitants was £15,111 13s 3d. The
number of those who died was nine, and they were in
receipt of £477 8s 9d annually. A valuation of the
engagements in this department will be made next year.
BRANCH ESTABLISHMENT AND AGENCIES.—A further
large addition has been made to the agents of the
company, and it is very satisfactory to be able to report
so many in a state of useful activity, and contributing in
an important measure to the substantial advancement of
its interests.
"RESERVED SURPLUS FUND.—The reserve surplus fund
now amounts to £215,596 11s. lid.
"PROFIT AND Loss.—The balance of this account is
£212,605 is sd. Notwithstanding, the result of the year's
operations has been so much less favourable than up to
a very recent period it was hoped it would be, the
directors are able to declare the same dividend as was
paid for 1857, viz., 12s a share. free of income-tax, and
to leave at the credit of the account, as a reinsurance
fund, the sum of £155,994 9s 6d, after the dividend is
paid. The fact will be an assurance to the proprietors
of the stability of the institution with which they are
connected, and of its likelihood to yield them, at no very
distant day, advantages yet greater than any hitherto
enjoyed.
" The following will show the position of the company's
fund now as compared with 1867 : —The capital (1857)
£188,422, increased by £2BO, is now (1858) £188,702;
the RoserieFund (1857) £214,616 118 11d, increased by
£9BO, is now (1858) £215,596 lls lid ; the Life Fund
(1857) £531,269 13s 10d, increased by £64,472 17s 10d,
is now (1858) £595,742 1 Is 8d; the Fire Re-insurance
Fund (1867) £153,710 Bs, increased by £2,284 is sd, is
now (1858) £155,994 9s sd. Total (1857), £1,088,018
13s 9d, increased by £68,016 19s 3d, is now (1858)
£1,156,036 13s.
" Having regard to the objections taken to the existence
of shares on which a small portion only of the amount is
actually paid up, the directors have determined to recom-
mend the proprietors to convert into stock the capital
which is now divided into 100,000 £2O shares, having
£2 only paid on each. The obvious advantages of that
arrrangement are so great as to have induced its
adhavope
-
tion by companies of various kinds; and the board
had prepared resolutions for effecting .the change, which,
if approved by the meeting, will require to be Fonfirmed
Chairman.
subsequently at another meeting, to be specially con-
vened. for that purpose. lOHN C. Ey/ART,
Liverpool, 15th February, 1859.!'
it The chairman said he was sure it must be gag,'

ing to the proprietors to hear such a satisfactory account,
notwithstanding the severe depression that existed
during the past year ;---and that, although they had
sustained a very heavy loss at Valparaiso, yet they had.
been enabled to maintain undiminished the large divi-
dend declared by the directors last year. It showed
that the directors, in augmenting the dividend over that
of the preceding year, had a well-founded expectation
that they would be able to maintain that dividend. He
could assure the, proprietors that the directors were
anxious not to declare any dividend which they could
not maintain, if not increase, in future years.
This year had promised to be one of unexampled
prosperity, but for the fire at Valparaiso, which caused
a loss of something like £65,000. As a proof of the
sound basis upon which this company stood, it was
really astonishing- to see the slight fluctuations that
occurred in the value of shares : they had scarcely been
affected in the slightest degree. He was sure the
dividend which they now declared the proprietors might
feel confident would be at least maintained ; and he had
every reason to hope that it would be increased in future
years. He begged, in conclusion, to move that the
report and the'statement of accounts be adopted, and that
such parts be printed for distribution as the directors, in
their discretion, held to be necessary.
Mr. George Holt seconded the motion.

Mr. Mozley asked why the implied understanding that
the statement of accounts should be published antece-
dent to the meeting had not been carried out. The pro-
prietors had every confidence in the board of directors ;
yet it was natural that they should require from them
accounts antecedent to the meeting, because it was other-
wise 'impossible to follow out the figures as read by the
secretary. He wished also to call attention to the sub-
ject of .the consolidation of shares into stock. He was
not prepared at that moment to say it was not a bene-
ficial arrangement ; but he thought that, in a question of
such importance to the shareholders, some notice should
have been given of the intention to bring the subject
forward. _ _

Mr. Lawrence said they could not pass such a measure
that day, but when they met again to confirm it, Mr.
Mozley might then give his views. _ _ _

The Chairman did not think there could be any ob-
jection to giving the statement of accounts prior to the
meeting, and the matter would be considered before the
next meeting. The resolution was then agreed to.
Mr. Lawrence moved a series of resolutions with
reference to the turning of shares into capital stock.
He said they must bear in mind that this change did not
involve any real change in the substantive value of their
property; it did not add to or diminish their liability;
but it was because they believed it to be a measure which
would convert their shares into much more handy and
available stocks, and that in such a change they were
following in the steps of other companies, that they had
recommended it. The railway companies had ad-opted
the measure, the gas company had done the same, as had
also many other fire insurance companies in London.
He, therefore, begged to move the resolutions, to the
effect that the capital of the company, which by the deed
of settlement was directed to be divided into 100,000
shares, should be converted into stock, and that in lieu
of shares stocks should be issued.
Mr. Hunter seconded the motion.

Mr. Mosley said the consolidation of shares into stock
was desirable, as it would enable proprietors to sell por-
tions of money, if they chose. It would be a decidedly
advantageous course, provided the consolidation of shares
was of such a shape as not to alter the original holdings
in the concern. 'But as regarded the point at issue, he
would go with the board in believing it to be a desirable
feature.

The motion was then agreed to.
On the motion of Mr. Fletcher, seconded by Mr. Hall,
thanks were voted to the board of directors, for their
attention to the affairs of the company during the past

year.
The Chairman returned thanks, in the name of the
board, for the confidence the proprietors had placed in
them. It was a source of great pleasure to them to
watch over the interests of this company, which had
risen to a height of unexampled prosperity ; and it was
a pleasure and a pride to them to attend to the great
interests which had been confided to their care by the
proprietors. (Hear, heer.)
The retiring directors were then re-appointed, and
thanks were voted to the various boards of directors at
home and abroad, and to the auditors (Messrs. Corbally
and James), who were re-appointed. At the disposal of
the directors £1,200 was placed, for distribution amongst
themselves, in such manner as they might see fit.
The Chairman moved a vote of thanks to their inde-
fatigable secretary, Mr. S. Boult. He was sure that
every one present would confirm the good opinion enter-
tained of this gentleman by the proprietors. The motion
was carried with acclamation.
Mr. Swinton Boult returned thanks. He said he did
not believe that any other company of the age of this
one could have stood the heavy draw upon its funds, and
come out of the test so well as the company of which he
had the honour to be secretary. And he could assure the
megting that, whilst no one felt more keenly than he
he could not but remark that tiris circumstance -was now
to be regarded as rather conferring upon them a vantage
ground, and as giving them further claims upon the
support and confidence of those upon whose good opinion
they must at best rely (applause).
A vote of thanks to the chairman terminated the
proceedings.