Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1859-12-23 00:00:00

regnired,ancl all other works were to be erected by and
at the. cost of the-Government. As to the other por-
tions. of the estate, the conitnittee cduld not do anything
at. present: .. , - - .

whether the board would give up a piece of grou,nd,
eemparatively'4peaking valueless, to tile Government,
to'erWit a fort upon it. (Hear hear.)' • The-fall might
have' their- -Opinions upowithe matter, -but they-ought
not to
.place their individual opinions as to what 'was
proper in juxtaposition with thoie of the ablest engi-
neering officers of the -Country.- He' was not a judge
of sudh matterS,' but he theught that one point
of -defence certainly was at the extreme end.- of
the north docks. Mr. Smith appeared to think
that forts erected at Seaforth, or Formby, or elsewhere,
iii that.diredtion would be better than the fort now pro-
posed by the-Gel/eminent. Well;- probably that might
follow hereafter, lattt'this
.must be -Considered 'as the first
step ; and ifAhey were to do anything at all in the mat-
ter, they should regard, this as an instalment of what
was, to come. He think the cothmittee would
not Object to a further consideration of the question ;
but certainly if the question Were, postponed, he should'
comel,forward on a future occasion, and very warmly
support the construction of the proposed fort at the
Bootle Landmarks.

The CHAIRMAN said the Liscard Battery' was made ;
but as to the battery in the south Sloyneatheboard ;had
no land there, and therefore : could do nothing• in
reference: to. it. • • •
- Mr: Sierra said the board ought not to be called upon
to :deal,euramarily -with such a document as that' whieh
was theft before theina There could be differences of
()Pinion on the subject, and it was very desirable that it
should receive the most ample and careful consideration
possible -at theehands of the :members of the •board.
(Hear, hear.) He had. an impression, which Wasshared
in by others, that the proposed batteries on the dock
estate would not be found efficient in ease of an invasion.
Now, the fortifications of the port Alottld be of the most
efficient description, and at the game time construtted
at the lowest possible cost. - One ;of the'least expensive
and yet most efficient forts' could be constructed at
Leasowe with a view to the protection Of- the Rock
Channel, and a similar 'battery- "at -; Crosby would
protect the • Queen't • Channel.. They had heard
so much lately Of the 'Armstrong, guns • and of r'.
improvad • 'gunnery, that at •=a e very small teat . Inlay TY--- -
forts could be erected on the two sites indicated, which '
would, in his' opinion; be a far more efficient protection
to-the port than anything in theshape of 'batteries'that
could be placed on sites within the Mersey: ' (Hear,:
hear.).- .:They ought to understand' the subject better;
before: they confirmed 'the reebinmendatton Of the
committee. • • • • ' •
-. • The CHAIRMAN said that Mr. Smith would allow
him to say, as far as the Bootle fort was concerned, that
the board, always contemplated giving up that : they
had not only agreed to give it up, but they• had also
agreed as to the, area in which the building,wwere tit be
erected: After the Russian: war had been terminated,
it was tupposed that the Government did not wish to
insist upon -the tootle fort .; • but still, it *as' always con-
templated to give up the tingle at the extreme' north
of-the dock works, whicliNwag tn'he nellecl the, Bootle
Marks Fort. With respect to other matters,-thtee of
the forts 'had never been' enettioned -Were, •andthey 'are
not included in the first recommendation of the Ordnance-
office at all. Three, of them were mentioned, but those
three were, understood to have lapsed—to have- been
• •
given up altogether ; '• were now • again repeated.
But the board would do well to consider this, that where
they applied to 'the GOveinnient on these points, the
Government having sent down their own men who were
iskilled•in such matters, to--inspect, they' would!take the
opinion of-those ,men,• in spite of all the board might do.
• But' the present aresolution went no 'further than to
reiterate the resolution passed over and over again, to
give the Ghvernment the north-west angle of the docks.
The Defence Committee had carefully guarded -them-
selves against expressing may opinion upon the other
sites, by asking for fuither informatioh 'on the subject.
- Mr. HOLME said, if he recollected rightly, in 1855
there was a demand made as to building a wall.
The CHAIRMAN said, they had declined to do more
than cerry'it out as far as the resolution carried it.
Mr. Hoeme thought the board had better-be aware
of the demands the Government were• likely to make.
They demanded, in the first instance; that a road should
'be kept, end a wall erected. '
TotitlN- thought they were specially; guarded
against anything of that `kind. The letter front the
WareOffiee stated that no expeitse 'should be thrown
upon the hOttrd, exce-at such 'as wee 'Oeceseary for dock • • . • • - ,
purposes. . ,DEMERARA RAILWAY dOMPANY.
Mr. MAciveß hoped that some of the members
.of • the-Defence -COnitiiittee would, combat the views .1 In accordance with,public annonneementaan extraor-
of Mr.
.Smith. Even if Mr. Smith were the greatest .dietary general .meeting-of this company. was -held:at the
engineer •of his age, he was still . not -.one of the rooms of the:West leidia Association; Brunswick-street;
war department. Now, this beard did. not -happen eMr. John Crosthwaite in the chair. . There were ,also
to 'he in the simple position they were in when ipresent-a•Mr: C. Holland,. J. F. Bennett; Jelin A.
'ell those letters were- written , before. -''A Vast 'deal 'of Tiunie, S. • Martin, J. O. Johnson, H. llarriSon, W.
hubbub liad'heen made at the- board about' the defences Balleny, J. Gordon, W. IL Gore; J. Brand, W.,11.
of the port. It- was• net the GOVerhinent, appealing to Sandbacha and, C. S. Parker. The ! object of the
the board; but it was the hoer(' which' appealed-to the .meeting • was to take into consideration an ordinance
Government. Now, if that Werethe case', with what -:passed by the Colonial Legislature of British. Guiana,
• face could -they pretend to first ask the Ciovernmenttheir ,;entitled ordinence to • relieve, the rDemerera :Rail-
'opirriori, and refuee them even a moiety of *heti they ':.way: CoMpany, upon certain .conditioese,frem, the :pay-
neceiaary fOr the defence' of the'Pefe,iftor !mutt of the principal of or interest-upon the mortgage
after all it came back to that : not what the board dueate • the colony, and -to make ,:further provision
ythought necessary: but, having applied to the Go- : for the ...behefit the..said., company." . The pre-
, iertinieA I;; *bat they Considered-di-hirable for the eamble estates-. that the Demerara - railway- was mort-
defenree),Of, tholpOrt.' !'Althotighy enrolling a 'large gaged. to tthe colony fdr.securing the suni of £50,000;-to
number of men, he was no more inclined to fight than be repaid at the expiration of twenty years from thellth
Mr. Smith; bne,.Ateehopid, ;the• lboact would comply December, 1850,-withinferest-at-the- rate of 6 per cent.
with-the war departmentate such an extent-as' nave pc]. Ullapn:: tamerchnaoce roe ea or tne.year 11653, the
, them the one fort alluded to. *. If_ it rate of interest was reduced_to 4 per cent. per annum,
to that single demand, he did not that the'board itbeing
,pipvided that 2 rr ecaate per annum should be
could with-any decency at all-refuse to grant it. •, • paid by the company, and applied to the, fermatien, of a
el Mr. Boitiar said that, ieonsideling the great iniprove- sinking fiind .far. the redeMption of the it ,niQrtgage.
meats in artillery, the-first principle in fortifying a place IThe'Peynaents ,inade en account of such, sinking fund
was to have the defence es farhspossible froin the thing, :have been, feethaalatinep totiine, inyeseed einathe,
con-
they meant to defend. - -The forts recommended by the entidated,three.pericent annuities, and. new ~arnote4 to
War Office were iiiPla6ed that.threeotit of four of them tlae of stock or thereabouts., There is
watildeireply draw enemy's' fire -Upon the.- ships in,. :due to the colony lay-,the company, ,a.e• thellst of
doeltand the warehouses. They should- have batteries. -October, 1860,,the sum of £8,00,,f0r arrears of interest
.at Leasowei flOating batteries. - • - -
Mr...Sit-AND; was- rather tor postponifig 'any absolute the, cqmpany certaitijOcoirietiveengines and goetli.wig:
conclusion on these-proceedings, because he remembered gent, and has acVaneed-divers sums of money to the said
that that North Fort -wax conceded with unwillingness railway for the,repeirs of the line and improvement
by thokboard. - They found-it deeimble to give it -hp to.
.of ;the premises, and has thereby expended for; the
the- Ooverinient,' to 'Meet theifsuggestiotis ; but at the , benefit of the • railway the • sum. of £8,864 ls. sd.
same- time they 'thought it was -Rot desirable; to,have_ ',Then follow the terms. efjelief, which are substantially
suchn, settlement, in'thatlocalitye a All the fortifications 7 as fellows :—So 'Oh& as the line shall` be kept ingood
now proposed would de .to batter'ships that had'got Hit°. order, and not brought tp. execution sale, no demand
the rivere,litti.their 'object • should' -be. to •ehaehveur• to shall--he made upon the-company.fer principal: or interest
exclude them front the river.. ••' •• • under:theintertga,ge
.due to, the colony ; and if, coni-
Mr. 'thought the 'Port Defenee Cebu- patty shall .expend £30;000 in the completion
rnittee - had got %Ito ' a 'pretty: ''Coneiderable fir. • I It, aline to Ataludea, ;the, mortgage, shall :be :cancelled.- The
'seemed that, Government had' now jiist turned back • qmount at credit, of, the .sinkine, fund forthe.ridemption
"turible. what therpropoeed'ini a fertnerthebasfthir and had .of - that utertgageato be:expended.on the of
given' the quegtion cansideratforir, at all. the, existing Jule.- -The. company to :be relieved from
' Tear, hoer.) They-had `netitittlylotte' 'that; hilt they payments is respect of sinking fund in. future,—
added- Some., two or three f forts to, what 'they' pro- ~Thenlaints: of the colony .for ;engines and :waggons lent
'peged ',before," Which -he 'thought ‘•*ould to the company .and for advances forrepairs of the line,:
as itiecateehient, as the forts which they hearipie,nously ,given, up;s-e-Leeal, ootamittee tci frame -and submit a
proposed. 'Looking at the *fined spa of pep had 7 c,tariffi-4)teteljle,34,ll(l. authorised-to. :makiti-,--agreaments
upon• the pier "heads, suggestion c61110;0 worse to , with,proprictors.and , others for the; conveyande eflpro-
- the interests of the estate than 'to 'have' ferts: Of 'guns. 'duce or goods.-!--The company to: keep 4:crept-fir the road .
upori the Prince's' pier-head,;' and the othei-Pier heads. :leading-from the terminus at Belfield to the public road-.
He thought thit-queetien 'reqttired"More consideration, and the bridge .on- the, samea—ln disc of `-a :vcieancv:in
in order to see whether they miglirnOtriiiiditce the: -the local cominittet the manager niay act provisionally ;
*G6Vernineat to inakc'fbits'it :fike'what . and coinpehy empowered to, appoint a mahaging director,,
Mr. Smith had pointed. out, whiol.‘' he thought would- ..inalien,Oflocal coinanittee4shOuld they think fit.;--Local
4he far More applicable 'to "'the defetipebttherpoit than corrunittee to submit a. plan ofethepropeted line from
-:• drat was no Proposed: (Hear; heat. •°--1 • Belfield to Mahaiaa,.' and previous ordinances' enabling,
- Mr. ;Fitit*Oori' thefight they ,ought-216'dentrand that- 'thecoinpanytdcomplete the line' revived.—Preference
"Mie.'Goi-eittreent'shouldpay ettditientoltheecTelfineeti of- .:hnd xightstafthe Colony atnder the mortgage fpreterved.
tort of Liverpool. Diet-not 'the pros Peril Of';'Lan- --'743referenee,:and •• rigida of holdets of . the bonds and
,ettehtee; and-perhaps th(Oeerfeenditioia of :the-Wholdi - preference stock. preserveda—'Provisions of deed of
ninth-try, .dePenclaipon LiVerPool beihigeitfoteeted?"The :_settlefuent, &e:;• continuech, . • • •
GoVetriment were bOund 'to put them m a'nesitiOn' of .:: The notidj'ealling .the-meeting was read by the' secre
_
defenbe.'• - 1 itary, linditurnett,
~• • .
• Mr. -TOBIN said the Gov ernnibut bad :`aka that' 1-- TheTiviinki.w said that when they met in October
-Collige. 'The GOVernment had eiPresseditheir opinien,- [lad ther had mot receivedlany inforination with regard.
and told them what would be the beitialeitis of defend- I toiliefordinancee :0 Since • that time,' however, they'had
ing Liverpool. They'Riltrtherclid not wish to interfere- r:eeettiWiltitrikad..bon received, and could jodgeJfer them-
with commerce and therefore. if board had any ,!gelvesitofie then moved--" That the Deraetara.'RailWav
yobjeetion :to raise .t 9 those particular - sites, theymust,-.Company- do- 'heieby accept -the' terms offered by' the
mention them; and. show -that it would be impossible to ';Colonial-Legislature-of British-• Guiana as set forth ;in
;erect batteries in.those particular sites. without .doing a ; the resolutionlazsed by the combined court of• the said
-
:very serious injury to the: working-of the docks. colony at an extraordinary-assembly,held-On the 31st of
Smrrir in .explanation, wished, to say that his • .october land' embdflied, ordinance No.' 23 of;
object was this, that the . qustion having. arisen,; -.he' ;1869;' enacted' by the 'court {of policy on the 4th day of
nought it was an opportunity whoa the subject- should' Noveniber last." ;
be So. dealt -with,, as between the board and the Govern- • - seconded the resolution, which Was..
anent, that, it. should „ end inithe defences of the port; 'agreect;to;','
being, of - the moat efficient character. . • , 'Mra-Ca-HoVreeten moved'' That the-foregoing, resolu-
11fr. LAte.h. 'said there . appeared to have been, ',doh be triturniitie& by, the 7directerate the Governor of
misapprehension in :the Steps, which the committee had' h'Guiana as; an labkiHMedg'eMeHi'd the conipany,-:.
:taken.7 ; They first asked.taGovekament to send down fotthernanner in which their interest, hits been reed?-,,,
surveyors ; that ;wag declined, _ and; the cometittee, were- 411411 by Eteellenty and the. Colonial LegislOture."e
referred to what had taken • place :before.. .He ", believed' He Wits rglakto Moviihat resolution,: the more so because .
the true course was for the Defence, Cominittoe.andfthe .) on ,a' late 'occasiiiii he felt; it incumbent upon him Inniakee
board to point out to the Government -what:they thengliV Itontea4everenontinent on;;the conduct of the legislature,-,+
would efficiently defend the port,. andOadhelieved if they!' regar&to: the railway, company. ; He' felt justified in
did that, they. would meet with.. every -consideration., reeking these remarks ,as .a trustee, as the construction of.•
(Ilear,....heas.).i..That was the Courseiitincih ite first sug-t ; the railway had-been solely for the benefit of theicolohy,
aoested.t -1-1/n:q still adhered .to hi'i icriginh/ri opimon.l ,Und ; mit) !for !the bEinifit: briltlo' • shafteholtlers:,•3B They:
If thei...Govegnment. reports werelaniiveurable ; they had received' he' knelt support .as. idle colony should
.mightatiotaget all,they: sequirecl4:bUt he, believe 4 from. have afforded; but, ,:he. was :happy ; novhin be enabled .
the disposition of the Government .at the: present -Xi:. 3 say thatethey;were placed, in a-.very different.
thaeitheyettirould carefully -consider anrangestiens thee Itosition, andethat '-the colony, had at, length aivakeoed
hotted' mightmakea:He Would not-certainly havfeagreedl a - Sense- Of their.. Own, interest: and of . justice to..
to the:pre4etitiesolutiona but he., believed it referred to; ,:ther'shareholders. • All,that7had. bon said on his part
a fort ....tithieh any :ease would ; :Withf ashotild forgOtteht a. and r heDiteusted, the colony, and._ the
regard. to the other 'forts, up, the riveia hee tit) ught . they . shareholders in, the, rallWayeweuld: act, harmony with:-
would,net -be' available' for the defence of the port; f each other, to .skeure the.:rnterest 'of the :railway: The
without doing great damage on'iboth,siddasaf the.water.- ;hates ofitolLia.adr,been hitherto; laarelYanffitient to pay.
The 'stiggestion 'of Mr:- Smith was valuable; but they' thee ivorkinglicharges., and ,keep:thexailWay in working-
; must net 'blame the Vroverninanti for doing.inothing- ;repair; 'andittwas ;quite eviderit4 bfiftre:theY borrowed ,
unless they nut befoie thorn what .0141 retjuired.i a£.:3o,oofit fOr the ,exteitsion:of the Erne, that it ehould be •I
hear.) . • 71u3.T ,shown: to the lenders what guaratattee there we.slor their
GRAvii said :it wale a , pifil the quettianhaid been. 'money, In order to. do, this,: thaey;shOuld either be able:
encumbered. by the. other portion:the anhjecl-n-the, rto charge ,a highertolls or)str."4-w. an increased amount of.
. 'erection. of batteries oh: the pieta heath ; ftuaalif pert:,Araffio; -,Hie weenorrytoae;e by 'the, ordinance that the;
stood, 'the committee lead postponed the consideration of, question of tolls ha' beeh •left. abeyance. ' •Tho rootel
tluit question altogether. for theoxtension 31 ;,*e' Erie to Malutich had not hem.'
f Tbe,orkinimaae4-That it so. • I definitely, laid dowh .-• So langas,these.mattertwere left'
•• Mr; GRAat, resumed—The only question then was, .in abeyance they tt-v;,.,a not;. e, able to mahe theireesti- •

Pllt...,}lVAirs, said the, having guns on the pier-headS
was no novelty; for be toulbl remember them being placed
there. -

Mr.-7 HITBEACK said delay would do no good. The
defence committee had been granted unanimously;_ they
hakconsidefed.the defenceless state of the. iMrt(;. they
had resolved that it wits-the dutfof. the Goverrinaent of
the country to put•the port in a &oriel; state of de.Rnee;
their views • had been; laid-. before the Governnient; who
now stated what they could do for the port, audit- was
now for the-board to: saywhether they- would-permit the
Government to:erect a foitrandfkotest the port as far
as they -contd. Without' inconveniencing the trade of the
port and- the town - In giving the piece
ofdandatlthe Landmarks, it' did not follow the the
defencealwould- stop-there ; and infaCt that piece of land
had-been:gran.ted before for the purpose.
The ChAnntiiii-.---Oter and over again.
The ENGINEER, in answer to Mr. Rankin, said, when
the north extensieh,plans were made, it was contem-
plated:hdving a dOCk basin south of the proposed tort
As-to A doek entrance further north, he thought it very
questionable whether the'board would be able main-
tain an entrance further to the north, seeing what they
had got -to- deal.with at the north end at present.
Mr. Mcmort, was ,inclined to .view.the matter in the
way :Mr. Laird.did, He would remind' the 'board that
when they were -referred to fortifications projected in.
1857 'the -Armstrong gun had not been invented, and
that the ordnance of that day could only carry a mile
and a4half or two miles at the utmost. He-thotight,
therefore, that this' matter should be well and gravely.
considered -before the arrangement ivaS :enlered -upon
with the GovernMent. He believed the sites pointed
out by Mr. Smith were eligible. sites '.for' he defence of
the port" of Liverpool; and -he would move that the
question be postponed for further consideration. • ,
Mr. BOGLT seconded the amendment.

The voting was then taken upon the amendment,
when there appeared : For-Messrs. &Mit, Brockle-
bank, Bushell, Forwood, Lockett, Mondel, Shand, and
Smith; 'Against—Messrs. Arnold, Evans, Graves, Hub-
back, Laird, Maelver, Moss, Rankin; Segar, Tobin,
and the Chairman.

The amendment was declared lost by eleven votes
against, to eight for, and the Original motion was agreed
to without a division.
The reporters then retired.