Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1859-03-18 00:00:00

. .
Reform Bill. We are here to use our exertions to prevent
..1 the land, and I have no doubt
it from becoming the law o
that we shall be succeeded, The Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, the Rights Honourable as he is called—l
dont know wteether you call him so or not
(laughter) has given us very many - specimens
of affrontere, but this beats all. I cannot see how he could
have bro•aght forward such a measure and think it would
go down with the country. It is impossible that the
country could swallow it. It is our business to take care
that it is not put upon us. With these few remarks, I beg
to move the following resolution, regretting that it has not
been put into abler hands :
That, in the opinion of this meeting, the Reform Bill introduced
by the Derby administiation is insufficient to meet the increased
and increasing intelligence of the age, and is therefore highly
unsatisfactory.
Mr. Steams (Town Councillor), . said : Chairman and
gentlemen, I think it will appear that we are assembled
1 here this evening to have a turn at that fine old English
pastime " foot-ball." We have a Derby Reform Bill
before us which has been kicked from almost every borough
and every town in the kingdom, until it has
found itself before you in Liverpool this evening. (Hear,
hear.) And when I look round at this vast assemblage and see
the energy and determination which is depicted on every
countenance---(laughter and applause)---I think we shall
be able to kick that bill, at all events as far as Knowsley ;
and in that secluded spot there will be stout hearts and wil-
ling hands to kick it to Preston; and then, Mr. Chairman;
when it gets to your country, to the north, I promise there
will be some rough lads to receive it. Now, why do I ask
you to treat with so much contempt• and ignominy the bill
proceeding from Lord Derb 's government. It is because
litis a bad bill. (Applause. It is, as it has been described
by others, " a sham, a c eat, a delusion, and a snare."
(Hear, hear, and applause.) It is a sham and a cheat be-
catise—(eries of " No, no ") - because it professes to disfran-
chise nobody. It only disqualifies 7,500 of the freeholders
of Liverpool and Manchester. (Hear, hear.) That is not
disqualification. Now, I will take my own individual case,
and I only do so to illustrate my argument. lam a free-
holder of the county, by a threefold qualification, by
inheritance in right of my wife which was her father's and
hgr grandfather's, and who had given a vote for the county
for centuries. I am a freeholder by bequest and by purchase,
and why am I to be deprived of my right of voting for the
county. (Hear, hear.) 7,500 of the merchants and trades-
men will be disqualified, and every man who will return Mr.
Cheetham for the county. Is Lancashire one of the most
powerful in the United Kingdom ? A county did I
say—l might almost call it a province. Powerful,
for its wealth, its coal mines, its mills, its rail-
roads, and gigantic and magnificent docks.' And
were 7,500 of the merchants and tradesmen to
have no say in the representation of the county of Lan-
cashire ? Are they to be handed over, by a family arrange-
ment, to a few court-hunting families ? (Applause.) We
are not to be disfranchised, we are only to be disqualified.
(Hear, hear.) Bat I see from Mr. Disraeli, what fell from
him last night, that he is to give as the option whether
we vote for the county or the borough. But why ? Be-
cause if I use my vote for the county, am I to be de-
prived of my vote as a burgess of Liverpool. (Hear, hear.)
There is something else to be represented in the county of
Lancashire. I well remember when Mr. Cheethami was
down, previous to his nomination, talking with him,
along with that veteran of reform--that noble
name —Mr. Rathbone. (Great applause and cheering—the
gentlemen on the platform standing and waving their hats.)
Mr. Jeffery called for one cheer more for Mr. Rathbone,
which was enthusiastically responded to.
Mr. Steains, in continuation, said—A name which will be
worthily represented by his son, who is here to-night,
ready to step into his father's shoes. I say that in conver-
sation with Mr. Cheetham, when Mr. Rathbone was pointing
out the great interests that were to be represented, I said :
Mr. Cheetham, there is another interest to be represented,
and it is for that interest I give you my vote and humble
influence—it is the brains of Lancashire that want repre-
senting. (Hear, hear.) I tell you if you disfranchise
the 7,500 freeholders of Manchester and Liver,.
pool, you would take away a great deal of
the brains of the country. It is a delusion, because it pro-
fesses ; very liberally, it gives the lawyers, parsons, and
doctors of the kingdom a vote. Why, I was always under
the impression that the last reform bill of 1832 provided
amply for these gentlemen. If there are any lawyers or
doctors who have no vote it is their own fault. If they only
get married and pay rates they will have a vote.
Laughter and applause). The bill is Jesuitical. (Hear,
hear, and " no, no.") It is a cunningly devised bill to
draw distinction (uproar) between land and trade. I have
a great regard for land, and all its interests, but I cannot
see the distinction between £lO,OOO in laud and £lO,OOO
in pocket. I think the man has a greater stake who has
got his property in bank notes, for if anything happens his
bank, notes 'may be worth nothing, but the land remains.
Land will always have a predominance. Again, the bill is
a delusion, because it professes to give every
.man who has
gathered together £6O, and put it in a saving's bank, a
vote. I quite admire that man who can scrape together
£6O in the savings' bank, but I cannot understand his al-
lowing it to remain there. (Hear, hear.) I fancy there
is something in this savings' bank vote. It is very generally
understood that the commissioners for the savings' bank are
no other than the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Ido not
wish to throw any doubt about the security of savings' banks.
You have the very best security—the security of the
government. Bid there is a dallying between the savings'
bank and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, which wants
looking into. You have it day after day in the public
papers, that " £20,000 has been invested in the funds by the
savings' bank." This would enable the Chancellor of the
BILL. Exchequer to make things very comfortable by giving men
who had £6O in the savings' bank a vote. Then I put in a
lit tTI,NG -- claim for other men who have £6O in a building or other
able Public 'IC
Ti" AMPHITHEATRE LAST NIGHT.
e.O meeting of the inhabitants oiLiverpool favour- society, or has £6O in his pocket, £6O worth of cattle, or
£6O worth of furniture, and every man who can sign a de-
Convened substant.
oksrsoeiat,n ial measure of Parliamentary Reform was claration.that.he is worth X 60, and get it signed by the
under the auspices of the Liverpool Reform mayor, give him a vote. (Applause.) Why in the name
d sciatic In the Amphitheatre last night, for the purpose of common sense is it to be confined to a man. who. has £6O
en'nato b Pon a titio to in the savings' bank. I say it is a sham
er°wdeerY of the n the House of Commons con-
poin, ,in eye_ Government Bill. The Amphitheatre was and a deceit. I remember • when the great
reform bill was agitated, " the bill, the whole -bill, and
bez,ees e to ee,..,e ee part for some time before the hour ap-
ti e were r lum nee the proceedings. The stage and the nothing but the bill" was the cry. But do you hear that
oe a eserved
I`, ,11 thei for the members of the Reform Associa- now ?No ; you hear a low, scornful grumbling that will
j oroekiee r friends. Among those on the stage were— not have this bill, or )
any part of it.
knee er'uak, James Steains, T. Gair, P. H. Rathbone, A Voice : What about the Bs. lodger .
T, lupine' James
Mr. Steains : Now, Mr. Chairman, it is a much easier
,Rafeies Iv , H. Ferule, S. G. Rathbone, T. D. Hornby,
'-'elle ei • Langton, C. Holland, Wellwood Maxwell, task to pull down and oppose than itis to build up. I will,
J ltamip •P• Macgregor, J. R. Jeffer C. P. Melly C. if you will not deem me guilty of
.pieeumption, tell you
I,,4.l7,ighamilion.,a.TT: ea•
Clerk "s'e, jun , Samuel Thornely,y, Swinton Bo.Olt, what my opinion is, and what we should endeavour to secure.
'A. W' le ,-,. Ariiozley, L. B. Mozley, C. T. Bowring,do I so without any conversation with any of the gentlemen
J. C,oi.H•ba.lAly., J. Robinson, S. B. Jackson, that I see around me. I think we all should first secure the
.11 , illiams, teaeriee lie: IYhitty, J. B. HuEwer,W. R. Jeffery, Jabez £6 borough franchise (hear, hear) ; the £lO county qualifi-
e•hes S. Peck Steel Gibson cation ; the disfranchisement of pocket, or what is. termed
G, Jeoreely, j. e, A. Sleih, W. .31. Lamport, J. iaitland,' nomination or rotten boroughs. And I would begin, not-
W ; Preston re°uu Campbell, E. Harvey, Thos. Avison, withstanding all Mr. Disraeli's sophistry, with letter A, and
l'ir',. -Mendel', '-e_ugh Hall, Brandon, Mozley, Arthur. Hope, the first borough would be Arundel; and I would franchise
Nir ''''l Mr °`e' &c. the larger towns that have sprung up, such as Birkenhead,
Ewart, accompanied by Mr. Brocklebank,
loularle, a* Staleybridge, Gravesend, and many others. And as to the
the cheers ether ether gentlemen, came upon the platform, ballot, why not make it permissive. (" No, no," " hear,
le„efn takeash were given by the meeting. The chair was hear.")
The
~ Thomas Bre kl b k E President I am not an advocate of the ballot. I
Th itssoeiati c ean , sq., of the prefer the old straightforward way of going to the
Ile e Chair °n• poll, and declaring for whom I vote openly. But let those
kee said : 1 Oa; on taking, his seat, was loudly cheered, who are enamoured of the ballot make use of it, and let
ft fat Ineeti,,ve been called upon to take the chair of this those who want its protection have the benefit. of t. I
ete(ietitielltrilre.k,aciiisi
jobeialutiovirtue of my office of 'president of your think some plan might be adopted by which it might be
ee n, and I have acceded to the call with used, but Ido not want it ; I would not use it. . But let
ha r'e 4ser —s' because I admire the wise and temperate reformers of every . shade of politics, with all their varied
e sPeeetent ved by the town of Liverpool with respect to the views, lay them aside, and present a bold and united front
to the House of Commons ; and, above all, let them place
PosiatiZlY clittleeedsti°ll of Parliamentary Reform. (Hear hear.)
At te oftii: , advert to the wide difference between the confidence, in that man who understands better than any
be " retell 'S etuestion in 1832, and itsosition in 1859. man)• living the practice of the constitution ; a man who
of civil and religious liberty
has done more for the cause .
an roehcljessede,tanDee'i°d grievances of great pmagnitude were to
uatir gareev e the nation rose as one man to wrest from than any man now living ; a man whose life has been one
fete Ped. theVe representation of the people, which it had of unsullied pure patriotism.
aft att;eueeee.) At this time ministers of the Crown A Voice : Derby is the man.
he" Ina), buTer, have announced that the Reform Bill of Another voice : Mr. Spooner. (.Laughter.)
i "entee 0 LnlPeeeecl and extended. (Hear, hear.) The Mr. Steains : A man who bears the time honoured name.
Ltlecie ji as olg (I I. o rdof Russell. (Applause.) Russell, the landmark of liberty
, Deft)) hastri d its ' pr'entice hand,"
all over the world. Mr. Chairmau, I have much pleasure in
10 Ye rierbre' ''"' ne a mere sham. tried
cheers.)'. I think
Ye 1 t e Would ha seconding the resolution which has been moved by Mr.
Neil 0 the Country,
Ave been more loyal to his party, more
(elate eke a task 11 Wry, if he had forbidden Mr. Disraeli to Earle. .
the „teed hin, for which all his antecedents have dis- The Chairman then put the resolution calling for a show
the :alley free; ecCheers.) lam certain you will condemn of hands for and against.
ofthltentiohoef"tses and paper votes of the great novelist, The few hands that were raised against the motion were
eeffta right
of tikeany small boroughs, and. the ignoring received with a storm of hisses and hooting.
ge. (o any
classes to an extension of the The resolution was declared carried by a large majority.
lobe: be ex, ud cheers.) I trust, however, the suffrage will Mr. J. R. Jeffery came forward. to propose the second
in.clger cons Tided so far as to cause the right to vote to be no resolution, and was received with loudf
land t enthusiastic
idle netreenalueeed a privilege or to subject the votes of sober, cheers. He said : Mr. Chairman and e low- owilsmen, if
Ref and worwtaking men to be swamped by those of the 1 there be one characteristic for which we, as Englishmen,
R -orre p, etese. (Hear.) The next statesman to offer a I are more famous than -another, it is that we give a clear
'eenseell. -""'
R will in all probability be my Lord John stage and no favour to any and every man who may present
se`rsant wit: introduced the bill of 1832. He is eon- himself before a Liverpool audience to express an opinion
et'tnPathises the constitution of this country, and he upon any subject. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) There is
.an
towerenlind With,, the working classes. (Hear.) I need element in those who entertain what are called progressive
theile-,w' :title figu how
he was employed recently, in this very views which we should be glad to see imitated upon all
77 Measures to promote their welfare. From such occasions as this, and that is, that every man stands
;,.inktrt, and la., eight to expect a full and ample measure of upon this platform upon his own footing. (Cheers.) He
tjeeellitu you "lint not if he bring in a good bill you will commits no man to the sentiments to which he
ci people er cordial support---(hear)—whilst, if he do not, may give utterance. For what I say our esteemed
atiee of th t Liverpool, in common with other constituen- chairman is not responsible, and for what he may
(1," propoundge'lle will again assemble in public meeting, say, or any other gentleman here may give utterance to,
NEI Cheers fur themselves the measure they require. no other individual is responsible. (Hear, hear.) That is
kr .)
eee • Earle em one element in the system we adopt to carry forward pro-
. cotninee )1e forward and was received with applause. geessive views. We Choose to claim it for ourselves, and we
;Veg. , ien,'?oeel. as 80011 as the applause had subsided by yield it to everybody else. You have been told by
.the
sien you haeue le townsmen, I thank you for the kind recep- 1 previous speakers that this meeting has been called to-night
‘,•'n, lea, v ee.given me on coming before you on this occa- for the purpose of denouncing this most abominable bill
otlld not', I consulted my convenience or my health I which has been brought in. (Loud cheers.) Gentlemen,
ItEa have
f sute
inix__, been here this evening. But being in somebill 1 Icall it •
a of sale—(laughter and cheers)—and you
rer'nes wrone,T 11P with politics since ever I knew right i and I are. the goods 'and chattels. (Renewed cheers.) Let
te},.. elf in b,:l-. coUld not, upon the present occasion, justify ' me explain to you why I designate it by that phrase, and
1/44ear, hear°mug absent from such a meeting as this. I I ask those of you who held up' their hands against
isteens4,. eve,
are met together to condemn in the the last resolution to give me their ear for three minutes,
' terms possible, the bill that is falsely called a whilst I explain how it is that we are to be the goods and

269,476 tens, and 19,597 tons. Timber vessels are at pre-
6ent detained in the river, but I do not think it is alto
a.
altogether
°'slcing to want
greatof water to enter the docks. It is to i
11extent owing to the crowded state of the Liver-
°l' docks. There is no doubt the Great Float at Bir- ,
'
nhead would afford ample accommodation for timber
great
As regarded depth of water, Birkenhead possessed
t advantages, but he did not know exactly where the 44
water storage was. There was undoubtedly plenty of land
storage, but the dock board had no information as to the amount of water storage. The timber committee of 1850
reported in favour of Birkenhead for the timber trade, in
preference to the north end. All the government nominees,
members of the Mersey board, dissented from , the present
aPPliCation Mr. Dealt, bne of the members of the board,
salci at one of the meetings that le looked upon Birkenhead
with
" unmitigated disgust." Was not aware that other
members of the board concealed their thoughts with refer-
ence to Birkenhead.
Mr. Webster : Well, perhaps they don't bolt out their
'Pinions co freely.
kr•sr.arnevorth : Well, perhaps not.
examination continued : I consider it was a great
taisfortime that the scheme of 1855, as regards the timber
tnrad the , was not carried out. I mean the proposal in reference
land at the north end.
Re-examined : Whether this bill passes or not, a portion
Vef.the timber trade will be located at the north. It is
o‘4rating there at the present time. The Dock Board, at
epresent moment, is speeding large sums of money, in
tr es and other ways, for the accommodation of the timber
fade there. I don't think that in any respect Birkenhead
t:assesses greater facilities, or accommodation, for the inland
le in timber than will be afforded at the north end.
in )Rite Chairman : There was not exactly an understand-
tieo. the Dock Board when, sometime ago, they had. a
at b,uctatiell with the timber trade respecting accommodation
,jt the north end, that the works now proposed should be
timeeute but I still think that it is incumbent on the
bero execute them. The decrease in the importation of the aet Liverpool was rather apparent than real, because
-mount imported in 1853 was only 273,000 tons, and
there h •
'tecleedelug so large an excess in 1854 as 387,000, it over-
the
e_ the trade, so that the gradual diminution was only
reco tfect of it. He believed that the trade
.was now
that7riug the effect of the recent large importations, an
foi?t;11 4,Year or two the returns would show an increase.
; /' lemin e• examined by Mr. Burke : Had been
Liver-1)04Y years connected. with the timber trade in
kr, ° • The witness corroborated the statements of
end Parnworth as to the proposed works at the north
adcleuer Liverpool being required for the. timber trade. He
Live— that, for several years past, the timber trade in
caleerr°l had been constantly increasing. He had madeb
ascertain from statistical and other information, and ad
iiiiportni-led that, taking the average amount of timber
gressive't into Liverpool every five years, there was pro-
the e increase from 1849 up to 1857. He considered
adealt'iresent scheme a very sound one, and calculated to
0 ante the timber interest in Liverpool.'
the far, elamilled brokers Webster Chaloner is one of
time
best timber in Liverpool. I was for some
fe,halonPafituersheiP with him. Up to the present time. 3 it.
if
south end to go the north end, and remains a
Lf. By can help • I don't think he will go to the north end ,
By the a P it
tiieb onunittee • I
er trade e• • , tri•; see no probability whatever of the
Posed work Z°lllol Birkenhead, and, therefore, the pro-
docks.
The ti°74-' net at al interfere with the Birkenhead.
Makin.. of th ee er trade are very much interested in the
irsern . e proposed works.
leasese 'Juan/lan •
°f land ' suPpose the timber trade, having taken
the Pro and offices in that locality, would wish to see
the Pcbsed wor
value of ... ks carried out, becausp it would increase
Mr. pi "fle land there ?to theh, . Ming : There is no doubt it would be advantageous
The"bli° their trade.
en indi„,•leairui, an But may they not be supposed to have
interest interest, as distinguished from the general
the pro: nort their judgment be biassed in favour of
the vales of
ks, from the fact that it would enhance
M. ti.L.,e ef their land there ?
au,hswe.r.-leuling : That is rather a difficult question to
rhe el,
the ei eairmen: Have you formed any judgment as to
head?'S ° f vessels likely to be accommodated at Birken-
Mr. PI
The ebenliug : I have not.
as to the'arinan : You have expressed a confident opinion
You form unfitness of Birkenhead for the timbertra
..tersade, can
: krFteanni.opinion as to its fitness for other. d. e
sideratie
mr. .
Smith, agent to the Bridgewater Trust was
repeateialled, and stated that the Trusthad
absolute Y urged upon the Mersey Dock-board, thel
for the i necessity of increased accommodation at Liverpool
Merle:can-Land carrying trade. The witness read severe
lioeed: Ls which the T rust had forwarded to the Dock
(leek
accaontud
tatadte. that he looked upon the increase of
ation at Liverpool as a vital question. R. _
tuck
the present scheme a good one. If the proposed
Tritst at the north end were carried out, the Bridgewater
basiesweuld be prepared toe take a long lease of one of the
r„ This Iv
as ase,the case on behalf of the promoters, and Mr.
the Great'4.'., was addressing the committee on behalf of
heilivayeN.,!_estern Railway Company, and. the Birkenhead
'ulPany, when our parcel was dispatched.

'Flit GOVERNMENT REFORM