The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-03-17 00:00:00

Cobden's went fur her—it went to a positive censure regard to our local town dues. (Hear, hear.)
upon the ir ,vernin int; and I do not stand bete, as you 'lii that bill there was—
well know, an acknowledgei supporter of a liberal
A Voice : It was Cardwelds bill.
government. I pledged myself, when you elected me, not Mr. Horsfall :It was well describe], when it was said
to be returned pledged to support any specific set of
men. (Cheers) I went to the Hotise of Commode, to use
, voice of Jacob. (Loud cheers.) Gontlemen, that bill was
the hands were the haiids of Eelu, but the voice was *the
the old adage,- 'i to support nieestires, not men"— (cheers,
=and when 1 Band that a motion was proposed, fleeing
proposed by Mr. Lowe, the vice president of the Board of
Trade, old if X had followed the advice of my friend, by
for its object what I considered an unjust censure on the
supporting the geverntrient Of _lewd Palmerstod on all
d
Government, lam sure you would hive despised me,
wlestiors, I would be in an awkward dale:lite in regard to
if I had supporte it. (Loud cheering) Aq•ie'stiors,
that., I felt it.my duty to vote against -that bill, and many
few words wi'h air. Cobden. It will be in. your mole
others voted against it. Sir Frederick Thesiater opposed
section th tt he was rather complimentary to the charec-
it, and brought a great deal of legal Iceowle°dge to the
ter of British niercharits, esti eei ,Ile Livery ml merchants,
sels'eat, and he told the ft oese of Commens that the town
Perhaps yoti will do me the honour of lisienieg to a few
of Lvetpool had a legal right and title to it. (Cheers.)
extracts from Mr. Cobden's speech. (Hear,
.hear.) .
What was the answer to that? Why it V4t,18 this t " Away
Lord Palmerston, Mach to hit Oredit, defended the
character of the
with your musty perchment." (Heart hear.) Now, if
British in.-tam-its generally t and
perhaps you are aware that the mover of ever that were so; it' would • effect every man in the
resolution in the Huse of Commeos hie the right of reply country to a More or less extent, for there was
net a man from the cottager to the wealthiest'
after every other member who Chooses to iddrese the hewer
has done. Whae didin the kingdom who did not hold his property by musty
Mr. Otoblea soy in ready to ristel
Pahneraton, and 1 pot it to yde to say, after I have read it, parchment, all if that bill bad passed, no property in the
whether he'or. their denies having made use of anything •
Conduct Dosed
be sem°. (Lena cheers.) Mr. Levee's
conduct roused such indignant feelings, that there was not
which affected the character of British merchants [ rile hon. the slightest chance of its passing, and it was with Irawo
netitleman then read the extracts, which mitt be fresh by the noble lord at the head of the government. (Hear,
ie the memory of min readers.] D,d Mr. Cobden, or did hear) It wawnot that question alone that was concerned,
he not state the fact, when lie said he had confined his hut the whole presider' Of local 'dues. le_the appoiniment
obssrvatioes to the merchants of Liverpool in the East of the committee Lord Hotham proposed, and I seconded
India and China trade. There were many similar observe- -
lions, and I will ask yen whether they did not effect the that Mr. Lowe should be the chairman, bat it was not
the bill that was proposed by the governmient; but I have
character of the British merchants. He said :—" At already stated the question of the entire local dues that
Geneva, Trieste,- Seagate, and 'Cohttatitinoole, you will was Involved. Ite proposing Mr. Lowe as the chair-
find that trade ' has passed out of the hands of British man, I presumed him to be most impartial in his acting.
in reheats, and into the hands of the Greeks, Swiss, and but I ask any man who has readwhether
thdeidevhiedten
actce
partially, a
Germans, win have no navy to protect them at all. It may before thathachoemtm
at all
he
impartially, as he was bound to
be that English merchants are, not sufficiently educated in
do. (hear, hear.) The whole emanated from a man—
foreign languages—(laughter)—that English merchants
the advocate of Manchester, and the determined opponent
carry with them their haughty and inflox-
of the town and trade of Liverpool. (Continued cheers.)
ihle demeaneur in I h sir intercourse with the It was suggested to me by the Town Clerk that we should
natives of these countries." I ask, now, whether Mr. ba heard before the committee, by counsel, but that
Cobden did State the fact when, in reply to Lord question was lost by .the casting vote of the
Palmerston, he denied having insulted the character of, the chairman of that committee: (Hear, hear ) Well,
British merchant. With regard to the speci I application gentlemen, I am perfectly a illing to believe that
of it to Liverpool, he said that the Liverpool merchants— Mr. Lowe, as chairman of the committee, was guided, and
Mr. Turner amongst them—were governed by selfish acted in the way he did for the best. But what course
violence, as shown in a memoria, from which he quoted didas sed to .the Corporation the right of being
ire he e p
refnr s
un e .
rte
and bad before hiin, in their application to Lord Clarendon,
hti have the rivers and ports of China opened to British heard by counsel, he would have acted with the strictest
i
trade. What was the fact? Mr. Cobden knew when be impartiality. (Hear, hear, and cheers.): Woat did he
do ? He had counsel himself—he had Mr. Ferrer,
made this statement, for he had a document before him,
"that in any new treaty it was = neceseary his lords
• , . a barrister connected 'with the Board of Trade, who sat
beside him, contrary, I believe, to the rules of the house,
rivers -of Chi
Should stipulate, for the op
and note
the ports and
prompting him as to the questions he should put, and giving
. na, , as Mr. Cob ?en questionshint information. Tuis, too, on the part of the chairman,
had , misrepresented it, for selfish . violence. who should act with the strictest impartiality, and by whose
I put it, then, to you to say, whether Mr. Cobden stated
vote the Corporation of Liverpool had been prevented being
what was tae fact, either as regards the statement relative
to the British merchants generally, or whether, he stated heard by counsel themselves. You are aware that-the sit-
the fact when he represented to the House of Commons ti of that committee was a very protracted one. I now
mg.
that the Liverpool merchants were ate-Anted by selfish
cometo the conclusion of their proc:edings. When we had
feelings when'they asked Lord Clarendon, in any new to make our report, a very able report was drawn up by
treaty, to stipulate for the opening of the rivers and port Mr. ll adlarn' the member for Newcastle, insisting upon
of China. (Cheers.) I come now:to another vote, which I this view,e that if the country or the government, required
telt it to be my duty to give, haying reference the Town Dues to be taken from Liverpool, Liverpool
to the estimates. When the Chancellor of the wasertitlede
committee. The committee decided upon it, and it
to compensation. That report was submitte
Exchequer eropoted, in the budget, to reduce the income tot
t•x from 16 ito 7J, and to reduce the duty on tea from 13 was theles by one vote. Whose vote do you think it was by
which it was lost ? Not the vote of Mr. Lowe, but it was
9d to is 7d, I felt this, that the country .was entitled not the vote of one: member of the committee who had never
only to a reouction of the ineeme tax from 16 to 7d, but attended its sittings once—who had never heard one word
' 6d, and I felt more, that not only were the tea trade, but the
of.the evidence, and the name of that member of the
consumws of tea, entitled to a reduction—entitled committee was Mr. Cobden. (Hisses.) I feel bound, in
I say, to a reduction not of is 7d, but to justice to Mr. Cobden, to say that it was the force of
Is 3d, and I will tell you why. When .the circumstances which had kept him away—a domestic
war with Russia commenced, the people of this country affliction. But the same• reason which had kept
were asked to submit to an addition to the taxation of the him away frost attending the committee, and heart
country—to an increased lucerne tax, and to an increased ing the evidence, ought to have prevented him, as an
duty on tea and sugar, but under what circumstances ? honest man, from attending and giving his vote against
Why, the positive pledge by act of ' Parliament, that in that rep wt. (Hear, hear.) Now, gentlemen, what course
twelve months after the cessation of the war these duties was afterwards pursued by the vice presideet of the
should be reduced. (Cheers.) I you, then, if it was Board of Trade ? He had not the courage again to in.
the fulfilment of the good faith which ought to be kept
troduce such a motion into the House of Commons. What
with the people of this country that these duties should
be only partially reduced ? (No, no) Well, wh it took coarse did he take ? I heard of his being down at
place consequent on this? Mr. Gladstone save notice Manchester, before the session met, and I was
that he should move for ar, duction of the duty on tea to not surprised to find a bill introduced into the House ofCommons, called the Mersey Conservancy BPI. (Hear,
is 3], which was in accordance wits the act of Parlia- hear.) You, perhaps,- are not aware that so tar as this
ment. Lord John Russell gave notice of-an amen linent tows is concerned. the object of that bill is in many
that he ,should move for a reduction to is 4.1, es respects even worse than the other. Mr. Lowe, in the
a compromise, which was agreed to by those engaged original bill, did not even propose to benefit those who
in the tea trade in Liverpool and London. The Chan. objected to the town dues-efie did not propose to abolish
cellor of the Exchequer' though still unwilling to coin- them. No such thing. Bit
them e pr
t)
the
eo
ply, then proposed to reduce it to Is sd. Ia the meantime, dreepdriityeetiLtihveeloaorldoeffthtT.remn.
them, and to ltay
Trade, where they paidwould
be under
nay honourable colleague and myself had presented a e
petition from Liverpool agreeing to the 13 4d, and when his own management. But the new Conservancy bill did
not only propose—because it is not Mr. Lowe's bill, but it
we went to the House, prepared to support the motion
wes from Manchester, and other places connected
of Lord John Russell - behold ! our standard bearer emanwith Manchester—it does not only propose to take the
had fainted in the battle ; for my Lord John Russell had town dues, but the dock dues, pilotage, and other matters,
withdrawn his resolution altogether, saying that he saw entirely out of the present hands, and place' them in
very little difference between Is 4 1 and is 51; but the the hands of twenty one members to he elected, three in
importers and consumers know the difference between them, London by the Government, and eighteen others, all of
(Cheers.) Bat, uofortutiatelyt the merchants in London . whom may, under the bill, be elected from some second
and elsewhere hail consented to the resolution of the Caan- street in Manchester. Now, will you believe that the
cellor of the Exchequer, and the duty now stands at Board of Trade, who, according to custom, are expected
Is sd. I think it ought to have been at Is 3 a (Cheers.) to report open private bills, have reported to the
There are other very .important questions which have House of Commons in favour of the passing of that bill.
come under the consideration of the, legislature, and I give you • that as a specimen of what I' call the
which must come under consideration, at the approaching honesty of the Board of Trade. (dear, hear.) There was
• session of parliament, perh ips intro interesting to the a very sensible report made by the Admiralty, and Ihhink
gentlemen on the Exchange than to an indiscriminate the Board of Trade would do well to take a lesson from
Meeting of this kind, but I will advert to them. Thera them. (Hear, hear) The Admiralty reported upon the
is the bank charter, a question of great importance. I Birkenhead bill, and told the House of Commons they
have received a. report from the Chamber of Comm'erce, of think the Corporation is quite competent to manage their
which I shall feel bound to give every attention and con- 'own affairs. (Hear, hear.) I think it would have been well
sideration. But . what is the course taken ? Her if the Board of Trade had made a similar, or something
majesty's Gavernment have referred the question to of a similar, report; for, without reference to this question
a select committee of the }lease of Commons, which is at all, without reference to the' question of the Liverpool
to take evidence and report to the house; and if I were town dues or Liverpool interests, I think the greatest
to give you any ()Onion before receiving and reading nuisance to the commercial interests of the country is the
that cvilence, 1 think you would say I was very prema- existence of the Board of Trade in its.present form, (Hear,
tune. (Hear.) 'There areother questions. There was that hear.) I dare say it is generally supposed by those who
reformatory bill in which many here took a great interest, are not infarmsd, that the Board of Trade is conducted by
That is withdrawn for the present session. There is, then, persons conversant with every metier of commerce. But
the more important subj ct of education, introduced by Sir what is the fact ? It is quite true :they profess
John Pekington and Mr. Cebden—in my opinion a very to consult the different departments—to consult the Secre -
unwarrantable compromise, - wait so far as I can judge, tart' f,r the Colonies -on colonial, matters—but the real
giving up the whole qutstioa of religious education. (Loud acting practical parties, and the only practical persons who
cheers.) To that hilt, iniftiptetent form, I feel it my duty take charge of the practical working of the Board of Trade
to give the most uncompromising opposition. (Cheers.) I ane—who do you think? A dozen commercial men ? No.
have seen a very able statement with. reference to it, Half a dozen ? No. A peer of the realm, and a lawyer i
and Ido not hesitate to state, that the Aly p Arty who have (Cheers, and laughter.) These are the parties who con-
taken this subject on the right view, was the great body of stitute the Board of Trade, and Ido hope th-it some move-
Wesleyan Metbodis's. (Cheers.) They met the question ment will lake place in Liverpool, and elsewhere, for the
as it had'a right to be met, and that was on the ground of re. constitutien of that board. (Loud cheers.) It is well
principle. (Cheers.) Now, gentlemen, there are many known that when the Board of Trade was originally consti-
-other • questions to which I might allude, . but , toted, they were bound to summon twenty merchants from
I am afraid that I should °cattier yeur tithe too L'ng different ports of the kingdom, to advise with them as to
—(crime of- "no, no")—as I have to return to town either the-measures they should take. But they do no such thing
to night, or early to morrow. (Cries of ago on.") But new. They keep all the merchants at arm? length, and
there is one point which I will touch upon for a few. all . they do is to introduce what is opposed, in
minutes. ( Rear, hear) I hive received a letter froin a my opinion, to the interests of the mercantile
.bedy—
friend—he is a friend, for h 3 says that lie voted (bear, hrarl—and detrimental to the commercial
for me at the last election, and I will answer the interests of the country. Well, gentlemen, I was net.
questions that are asked me in it, becaoss it is et surprised to hear Manchester talking of inviting Mr.
proper letter. !de has put his ranee to that Loeve to become one of their representatives. (Hear.)
letter and I will answer it, aed ' I think' that A very good representative he would make, so fir as the
he is entitled to have a fair and candid answer from me town dues are concerned ; and when they have made a
and he shall have it. and ,I hope that he will give. me his. handle of him for that purpose they will, be very
vote again. (Cheers ) He wishes to know how I should I glad to get rid of him. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) I
act, if there was .a motion proposed of confidence in Lord , feel that there are many other questions upon which I
Palmerston's administration. I will answer him to the might touch, but I must recollect that my
best of my ability. If that minion had been proposed honourable friend is to fellow me, and I feel that I ought, before the vote on the China affair had been given, I not to trespass at greater length upon your time. I
would hove voted 'that I had confidence in that I cannot sit down without again thanking you most
administration, but if he wants to know if lam prepared i cordially for your kindness to me, not only upon this
to vote on the re-assembling of the parliament, that I 1 but upon every occasion, and I can assure you that if it
have confidence in Lord Palmerston's adrnihistration, ' should be your pleasure to return my honourable friend
before he has given the measures he intends to propose, I
as one of your .represent ---
will say that until I have had -that information atives
I will not vote for Lord Palmerston's admin- A Voice :So we will (Cheers.) ' •
a ns alnconnection with my i
M H -fll :
istration or any other administration. (Cheers.)
and colleigue, Mr. Ewart, all I can say is, that I will
The next question is of a very similar character. It is,
will I vote a want of confidence in the administration of submit, with the greatest deference, to your decision. If,
Load Palmerston; all I can. say- is, that I want to know on the other hand; you should think proper -to return me
what measures he intends to propose; and I should consi. either with my present honourable friend and colleague, Mr.
der oaryself a fool if I did so without that informs- Ew art, or with my excelleut friend here—(cheers) —all
then. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) I should consider I Can promise you -is, that I shall, as heretofore, devote my'
that 1 was giving a • factious vete, ith I did best energies to the interests, to the dearest interests, of my
a thine that I was never guilty of.- (Cheers.) lam then native town, and to protect the honour and the' welfare of
asked, if I agree in Lord,Palmerston's ecclesiastical policy.
our common countrr. (Loud cheers, amid which the
I did not expect to be asked•that question; hut I will not
hotentrabis gentleman-resumed his seat.) '
shrtnie from answerinwit. • (Gbeiors). I know there is a
•differeuea of opihion on this subject even ameriast our i Caries TurnereEto.a then 'demo forivard, an was
.received with. a .most enthusiastic burst of applause,
consider him, for he voted for me be
own friends; but I -eill tell .my fi,enti--tor such I muse I
,ccompanied with Kentish fire, whit's lasted for some
whet• Lord Palmerston - ttoie, and I hope he will h
time. He said—Brother electors' and fellow townsmen, in
again—that I not only approve oft
has dotie, but 1 hava taken the opportunity of personally again appearing before you as a candidate for the honour
telling him that I approved of it. (Applause.) Then, of representing the great borough of Liverpool in Parlia-
ment, I cannot forget that the last time I did so, I was.
again, .he says the Earl of D •rby strehuously opposed
the Earl -of Shaftesbary's bill for securing all the
returned atttamtheied by any of your mernbars. (Loud bead of the poll by a larger majority than
perfect liberty of religious worship, and he asks ever was obtained
if .I approved of that. (Applause.) lam afraid that cheers, and a voice, alt shall be so again.") I shall never
.
myfriend is not well posted up is Parliamentary
forget. your kindness on that occasion, though I weal
matters, for - .
,I must tell him that , the bill was
willingly fail to remember the miserable artifice by which
'
not introduced into the House 'of Commons, but your choice was annulled, and I was'deprived of the dis-
originated in the House of Lords, and that as tinguished honour you conferred on me. (Cheers.) 1
see it stated that
,I am coming before you to gratify a per-
teach 'bill required a sponsor, I,- with Mr. Kinnaird,
sonalianity. I trust your knowledge of my character became its-sponsor. The:next qaestion lam asked is—
will relieve( you of such a thought. (Cheers.) I say that
did. I agree with -the bill for allowing • the bishops of
London and Durham to resign their seee. All I can say this is the same contest as that of 1852, not of men, but of
is, that I supported that bill, and I. would do it principles; and if the same.principles are at stake now
t again. (Hear, hear, and, loud cheers.) lam not aware that were at that period, the same men are before you.
that there are any. other public points, to which I (Cheers.) lat least have not changed my principles; if
•
it is not now a question of principle, my opponent must
satisfactory, and all I banp say is, that I shall be happy to
need allude, but I hoe that m answers may be have changed his. (Loud cheers.) Let me briefly call
l to the circumstances attending the
meet my friend, either in public or private; and I hope
election of 1859, to which allusion has been made. by the
I shall not lose. his friendship, and that I shall again have
'chairman. I was- called from private life in 1852 by a
his vote at the next election, and. that it may be said I
have not lost a friepd. (Loud cheers.) But I com© requisition from a more numerous body of the electors of
now to the matters of • a more local character, Liverpool than have ever affixed their signatures to a simi-
and lam quite sure that all will agree with me, that it is tar document; The numbers at the close of the poll were
a subject of the greatest importance—l allude .to the town as follows wt-For myself, 6,693 (cheers); Mr. Mackenzie,63; Mr. Cardwell., 5,217 ; Mr. Ewart, 4,910 (groans).
dues. (Cheers.) You-will all perfectly well recollect that, It will thus be seenit,
that 1 bad a majority over Mr. Card-
last year Mr; Lowe, the-what 'president of the Board of well of 1,476, and over Mr. Ewart 1,783. (Loud cheers.)
Trade, introduced a bill into Parliament, with A petition was then presented against the return of my