Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1860-02-16 00:00:00

TIMES

reference " said one of our export manufacturers ens
gago in 'the :soap !li4biesi;—" with reference to your
"observations 'at the meeting of the Chamber of Com-
merce, yesterday, in regard to the prqppiedstax of a
penny' per package, r iscct
.to mention that, on the
quantity of soap exported by me, this would amount to
upwards of a thousand pounds per annum ; not one
penny of which would be recovered by increase of price
abroad. Observe, too, that a case of fine goods, worth
hundreds of .pOunds, is to pay only the same as a bok• Of
- •
Sdap, or any 'low-priced comniodity worth little more
than half-a-crown. !If -a duty to cover the expense !of
registration is to be levied, let it be an ad valorem one.
:The value of goods..imported and goods exported is, I
presume, taken together, about two hundred millions
aeyear ; which, at ls. per bent., 'Would produce a
million annually, and if this should be considered 'too
much, the rate can be reduced to 6d., or to 3d. per cent".
With-regard to the-charge for bringing coaStaVise, there
was
.a point which occurred to him as extremely worthy
of attention. Under_ this Budget of Mr. Gladsteue'S,
and under the • treaty With France, the whole of 'the
ported Great Britain were to be opened to eciinmeclities,
whether of French production or the production of any
part of theworld from the•ptorts of. France.-. 'lt fillowed
if ‘this charge of 4dsperewti on sugar for- removal were-
adopted, Glasgow and other places which were short of
the raw material, in place of- sending their orderi tO-
London or any other British port would find it more
economical to send their orders to Havre, or some of the
French ports, because they could bring the article from!
, Havre :without the , charge of 4d, It was, there-
fore, a bounty to encourage the importation of
Oscar into France, in place of encoera,gingtheimporta-
lion of sugar-into 'our own country. (Hear, hear.)
This was not a matter on which they might look with
little fears because, as gentlemen in that room knew,
the French occupied .a very conspicuous place in the•
sugar trade. To our own island of the Mruritius they
sent many of their French ships, and
.imported largely
into France, and' the sugar came freqUently to our own
country. Having alluded to the article of sugar, he must
- be allowed to say that it was as a freight for our ships
heavier a-great deal than even the important cotton trade.:
There was,a greater wsdght of sugar imported into,Eng-
land than cotton: Ily France making itself the great em-
porium of the sugar of the world, it would be able alWays
to find the heavy freight, and that would enable it to
-send-manufactures and other coMmedities at a low rate,
to compete with Tritish manufactures. • Then, again,
these freights would become still lowersbecause whether
a ship were sent to Liverpool,' or Newcastle, or Leith,
or Glasgow,. or Cardiff, it could alWays have a -return
freight of coal. In fact', 'the French could send their
goods to the( ports of this kingdom at a mere nominal
-,freight. Soule MC might say—'4oh, you de'ojitiosing
the concession of free-trade to France." He was not;
but he might tell them frankly.thot he objected to their
binding themselves for.tenyears, or twenty years, as Lord
J•. Russell proposed, 'to any syStein which tit-eyesight in the
end find somewhat inconvenient. Of all the privileges
of: the': British subject, the grand
one was' to 'he. free.
Give him above all things free-trade, and he was' sure.
that would be fair trade. (llearshear, and !applause.)
He'had .ventured to lay before them an illustration whiCh
seemed to show that the treaty, put foreigners on a better
footing 'than the British subject. 'We proMised to
abolish- many of our duties. France only promised not
to have her maximum greater than 30 per cent. If we
were to have this treaty with France let us have it
experimentally for one year. _Let us.seelow it worked ;_
and don't let us give very valuable cone ssions for nothing.
There:waS'great danger of our commercial relatiOns being
seriously concerned, especially with the One-sidedness of
the treaty, which deprived the British shipowner of cafry-
ing goods for France, while we conceded so liberally to
-Prance every advantage to convey our goods in her own.
Ships. (Hear, hear.) He, had no particular objection
to the' Budget • he thought there were many excellent
points -in it. :‘,ll he.could Say was, let them remember
that it was a stringent treaty, which might prove in-
convenient in case of war—war with the .United,States,
for then our whole commerce might be, carried on in
French ships, and then the channels of trade might be
formed* in deep ruts that would carry everything from
our shores, and make France the great emporium of the
world—the great carrying country of the world:, '(Hear,
hear.) He concluded by Moving the.' followine•
resolution That in. the opinion of this meeting,: the
practical operation of clauses 11, 12, and 13, will be
antagonistic to the principles of free-trade—will fetter,
hinder, and harass the wholesale traders, and-will be
productive of no adequate advantages to the reVenue,e--
because imposing upon them a heavy and most hurtful
burden in common with,all merchants engaged either in
the import or export commerce of the kingdom." He
characterised that as a thorough free-trade resolution.
Mr. MAriresoN said he had great pleasure in
seconding' the resolution, and, that'it required no argu-
ments from him to support it.
A Voice': Had We not better add tlqt the change
affects the shipping interest as well
The ,CHAIRMAN : I . think not. We had better not
.meddle. with that very, important interest, They are
Wets) take care of themselves. (Hear, hear.) . They
are quite competent, I am sure, to deal with the matter.
(Hear, hear.).
The resolution was then put and carried unanimously.
- The CIIAIRNIAN said theie were other'matters in the
Budget affecting other trades, and he should be very
glad to hear any gentleman express his. opinion on the
subject. There was one very, important matter that had
Occurred to his mind. 'Upon the LiverpooLsystem of
delivery orders a tax was to, be levied. Ire Could not
read the proposal of the Chancellor in any other way
than that every delivery order. for every single package
would require a threepenny: stamp, and that every time
it was transferred a threepenny stamp would also, be
required; so that if he,, as a wholesale ,dealer,
bought a " Chop" of tea and wanted to transfer it, he got
it all transferred for threepence • but if he sold-that chop
of tea, consisting, it might be, of 500 chests, every-
person sending a delivery order for his single chest would
perhaps require on that delivery order a 3d. stamp ; and
"every time that order was transferred, a further stamp of
that amount. The m 0146611 of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer ran thus .----"That 'towards raising the 'sup-
ply granted- to her,Majesty.e;:For and upon any Warrant
or document - commonly called a dock warrant, or any.
other writing or document, by whatever name the same
shall he designated, entitling or intended to entitle any-
person therein named, or his assigns, or, the holder-
thereof to the prop rty in any goods, wares, or merchans
disc, lying in any dock or warehouse, or upon any wharf;
and also for and upon every transfer of such warrant,
writing, or document as aforesaid, there shall
be charged the stamp duty of threepence."
„News as ,n, practital, man of business, .he woull.not
hesitate to state that, if this resolution was carried -out,
it'sionld knock up the present system ordeliiery orders
in Literpool, and end in the idoptien of the present
.warrant, system as accepted in London; but how far
'Liverpool was prepared for that change he could
,not
state; 'of one thing, however, he was certain, and- that
was, that it would very seriously affect all engaged:in
, the tea-trade. ThoSe engaged in the tea trade knew
that thereAvjereimany
.thentsandspf orders .given .in the
course ora year'. 'A
min mightwant ten chests of, tea
from different ships, and of `different kinds s he would
in:that case require a delivery order for each package,
at a Cost • of -a three-penny stamp on each, and each
:time, a transfer took place, another three-penny stamp
would be reqUired per package. That, in his own
busiriese, would amount to a tax of something like
'three or font'. hundred pounds sterling per annum.
The thing was , preposterous; . it would not -hold water
for a single hour when looked into. (Loud applause.)
saw, his friend,. Mr. Jeffery, there., (Applause.)
Now, it struck him (the chairman) as something that
would concern Mr. Jeffery very materially, when he
read in the resolution that there should be a stamp upon
every niemoraudum, or note. . Would this apply to
invoices, or: bills of parcels ? The resolution runs thus :
" There Shall be charged and
paid for and upon every
note'or memorandum, 'commonly called a contract note,
for or relating to the sale or purchase of any. goods,
wares, or merchandise, or of any stocks, funds, or secu-
rities, or shard or'sharee of or hsany jobstsstock or oth,er
public company, and for and upon every agreement under
hand only, letter, minute, or_memorandum made by, the
vendor, or purchaser, or any person on their behalf respec-
.tively, 'fOr.or retatingt9 the saleer purchase of any goods,
matters, or things as aforesaid, the stamp duty of ld."
Now as he read this, '(it Might be in his obtuseness of
inteliect,) if he went to that
.great establishment,
,Comptonehotsse, and ;bought npaar of gloves, he would
require a .penny stamp oh the note. He had some idea
of, the vast amount ;of- basiness done 'in "that great
, establishment, and he ' believed, it would involve a. tax
upon _that business of twelve or fifteen hundred pounds
a year.. 3.1 t. Jeffery was pretty:sharp in looking after
public affairs, 'and -(the chairman) would like to
kinivir 'if that gentleman's. attention' had been called to
this matter. " :(I.lear, hear, aid applause.) Perhaps Ur.
Jeffery would favour the meetapg with his opiniOn.
(Hear, hear;)
Mr. JEFPg4T said he was, indebted to ftte chairman for

his appearance there that day, and he was much obliged
to Mr. Steains for his invitation. He had came there,
,however, rather as a listener than as.a speaker—to hear
the opinion of the commercial men of Liverpool on the
most important points in the Budget affecting their
interests. Now whether one of those proposals which
had been partienlarly alluded to, was tp affect him to
the extent that the chairman had been good enough to
anticipate, he was not prepared to say. On reading that
resolution in reference to stamps on notes and memo-
randums, it was quite possible that it might be open to
the construction which the chairman had put upon it,
although, on a close examination, the word " contract
note," might enable one to give a different definition.
But Athen the resolution went on to state that a tax should
be levied upon "every "letter, urinate, or memorandum,
made by the vendor or purchaser." Now if that was
to include invoices, if it really was to include a memo-
randum of sale given at the time of sale or purchase—
The CHAIRMAN-Or duty notes.

- -
Mr.' JW/ERN-7-Or duty notes, I am afraid the
amount of such a tax upon me in my business would far
exceed the amount that' the chairman has stated the
imposition would realise in my case.
A Voice—No doubt of it. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. JEreEny went on to say that he concurred with
Mr.. Clark in the opinion that the Chancellor of the
Exchequer could not have given that part of his
Midget which appeared so objectionable•to that meeting-
the serious consideration and examination that he could
now, no .donbt, heltoW upon it. Ile did "not believe
that the. Chancellor knew that that portion of the
Budget would work-sod oppressively as it had been-
shown that day- would be the ease if it were carried
practically into effect ; and, therefore, this ventilation
of the, Subject would be most materially useful, not only
conductedt6oome Tetitaken
commercial
y aotshp meeting,eear.
ain convincingt eornicl
operations
ci
tnt
hht so, =I
to orte'trale, but to' all trades, whether home or foreign,
all more
ottti
ihhhleeadn
In
igpildlrotorieoof ought
tradesmen
coun-
try.sily
t .
that, evera t
the, less Chancellors of the Exchequer interfered with
great official's diity. be performed. (Hear, hear.)
He- really- thought their experience on that portion of
the Budget would tend to- satisfy every doubtful mind;
that the less trade was interfered with, theless commerce
was tampered• with, the more trade would be benefittede
and they would be able to conduct it at the minimum,
expense.: Now they were going on in the right direc-
tion, and the Budget, as a whole, he thought, was an
admirable Budget. (Hear, bear.) It was a compre-
hensive, progressive Budget, and was a step in the right
direction that few of them were prepared for ; but, for
'them to expect that it would be perfection in all its parts,
would .be,for them to assume that the,Chancellor of the
Exchequer was something more than mortal. He (the
Chancellor) therefore in his admirable speech—that
lucid, eloquent, powerful speech—on Friday night
asked them to scrutinise and criticise the Budget, and
in doing so he sought for information from every part of
the kingdom where information could possibly be given.-
On:re,ading the circular convening the meeting, he found
~that they were met to consider the charges proposed to
be made upon commerce. But Mr. Maefie had travelled
out of the record, and objected to the treaty being in
force for ten years. Now he (Mr. Jeffery) did not think
that treaty bound- us for one day. He believed it would
• be a-great blessing to the people of this country to have
the duties: on all the articles referred to reduced, except
perhaps in the ease of brandy, due regard being had to
the state of the revenue; and on a review of the whole
treaty, he thought it only bound France. But who
would say that France could exist for ten years longer ?
, One thing, however, was certain—that France had never
broken her treaties or Agreements with this country,
altkough her dynasties might have been changed. (Hear.)
We were free-traders by pr6fession and by practice;
France, on the contrary, had been protectionist both by
profession and by practice, and therefore if we could
have France under.bond to free-trade for the next ten
years, it would be a very great advantage to toth
nationS; nay, he would like to see her bound for twenty
years, and if by this treaty we could enable the Emperor
of -the French to overcome difficulties which, as a
despotic monarch, would beset him, he deemed it our
duty to render that aid: (Hear, hear.) They had not
in France the means of attaining to commercial know-
ledge which we. had, by the freedom of debate in our
Houses of Parliament, where questions were asked and
answered until every man and every child, almost, could
understand for himself which was the better and which
was the, worse side of the question. That was unfor-
tunately not the case in France. The Emperor of the
French, therefore, must be cautious how he proceeds,
and he must show the protectionists in France that he had
got ,something from Great Britain which would be of
advantage to the Frenchmen. It happened to come
within his own knowledge that the Emperor of the
French asked information on the subject of free-trade—
sent round circulars, containing specific questiens, to
the protectionists of the empire, who, when they read
the questions, were utterly puzzled and confounded by
them, and it was in consequence of the answers to
those queries that Louis Napoleon had taken the pre
sent step., Mr. Macfie had stated that if we went to
war with America, our trade would be conducted in
. French ships. .But for trade and commerce; we should-
have been long since at war with America. It was our
mutual interest to foster trade, and that interest had
kept us out of war (hear, hear) ; and he believed that
if we repealed the duty upon every article that France
exported or manufactured, and gave a free ingress into
this country for those productions, that it would be the
best protee.tionewe could raise against invasion from
France. (Cheers.) Instead of spending ten millions in
fortifications, let them reduce duties on commerce to
that extent; let French goods come into this country,
and that would be the best means of preventing inva-
sion ; and the best means to prevent war with other
nations, too, was to throw open all the English ports,
and declare England to be one grand free port for the
.whole world. Four hundred articles were now on the
tariff, paying a small amount of duty. The late Joseph
Hume—all honour to his name—proposed that 1100
articles should be struck off from the customs' list. Who
followed him.?-e-the late Sir Robert Peel. How did he
deal with the matter? He repudiated,the idea; said
Hume was building_ castles in the air ; said the
idea was Utopian. Within two years, how-
ever, that- very man brought in his repealing
measure, and repealed 700 out of 1,100 of those articles
then paying customs duties, and now it was left to the
mantle to fall on his successor, the present chancellor,
to repeal the other 400 odd, and he was now doing it.
That he could do it perfectly, no one could expect; but
let commercial men call his attention to these difficulties,
and no doubt they. would be removed. They were all
confined in amount to about £300,000. The chancellor
had a surplts of £600,000, and he was sure they would
be all rejoiced to hear him say "if this is an impedi-
ment then I will do away with it altogether." He had
been most powerfully struck by the illustration
given by Mr. Clark, of the rice trade, as to the
evil effect such an impost as that' proposed would
have upon trade ; and he hoped the deputation
would wait upon the chancellor, and through him
convince the House of Commons, that instead of imposing
-Additional, they shoUld diminish existing restrictions,
that pressed so heavily upon commerce. One word as
to shipping. He regretted that shipping had not been
included in the treaty ; but they could not expect the
EmPerer of the French to do everything at once. If
he were to embrace every protective interest in France
in his scheme, he (Mr. Jeffery) would have no hesitation
in saying that those interests, all banded together, would
be too powerful for Louis Napoleon, and he would,
consequently, be able to do nothing. (Bear, hear.)
Let him do his work by degrees, and he would accom-
plish the whole. He trusted that, after the duties on
the propoSed articles were reduced, the shipping interest
would have full and ample justice done to it, and that
a powerful representation from our own GOvernment
to the. French Government, showing the benefit of
reciprocal-trade, would secure the relief sought by that
interest. 'The navigation laws in this country were re-
pealed by the force of circumstances, and yet the facilities
for transit were "not adequate to the -.Teat development
q •
of our trade. If that-were the case in England, under
free-trade; it would not be long ere it would be The
same, in France. Such was the natural expansion of
commerce, when left unfettered and uuinterfered with
by the legislature, that France would have to open her
ports to foreign shipping, to enable her to accomplish
her home traffic. (Applause.) •
Mr. MAelan, in explanation, said that he thought
the treaty put us under some restraints, because we
conld.not unpOse duties on certain articles without the
sanCtiOn nf the Einperor of the French; and in case of
war, if we required alterations in our tariff, we Could
not effect them without the consent of
,the French.
monarch.
The CHAIRMAN said the coffee trade was largely
interested in the Budget, and he would like to hear a
gentlenian in that trade give them his opinions.
- Mr. Snanr, on rising, was greeted with applause.
He said he entirely agreed with Mr. Jeffery that the
course of legislation for years pest had been to remove