The Northern Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-04-02 00:00:00

proposed that the proceedings of the day shall commence
with the assembling of the Council, on special summons,
together with the invited guests, the magistrates, the
clergy, and the principal inhabitants, at the Town Hall,
at eleven o'clock, from whence they will proceed in
procession to the ground. The ceremony will take place
soon after the hour of noon, to enable the working classes
to be present. The trowel will be handed to the Mayor
by a deputation from the readers, and by him presented
to Mr Brown. The committee propose to provide
galleries for the accommodation of about 750 persons on
the ground, admission to which they recommend should
be by ticket ; the tickets to be distributed according to
the pleasure of the Council. The banquet will take place
at two o'clock, pr )vision boing made for about 850 guests.
In the evening, it is understood that Mr Brown will be
present at the Concert Hall, Lord Nelson street, to receive
an address to be presented by the readers.
Mr Picton, in moving the confirmation of the proceedings,
stated that the platform area at the disposal of the commit-
tee was but limited, owing to their having only got a small
portion of the site into their possession. They had only
about 1,100 square yards. Provision was made to accom-
modate 750 individuals. Since he came into the room the
following disposal of the tickets was suggested to him :
50 to be placed at Cle disposal of Mr. Brown, 100 to be
given to the Mayor, 100 to the Banquet Committee, 100 to
the Joint Committee for the testimonial, leaving 400 to be
divided among the members of the Council.
Mr. Gladstone.seconded the confirmation of the proceed-
ings.
Mr. Bold suggestel that the name of the Town Clerk
should also he placed upon the brass plata.
The Town Clerk hoped the Council would not bury
him along with the stone. (Laughter.) He thought the
name of the Mayor, as dating the year ; that of Mr.
Brown as the benefactor; that of the Chairman of the
Committee, and that of the Architect, very proper and
appropriate, but he did not think the Town Clerk had
anything to do with it. Mr. Cooper supported Mr Bold's
suggestion. The Town Clerk was a very important
officer, and he wished .o hand him down to posterity.
The Town Clerk : But I don't want to go down to
posterity. (Laugh er.)
Mr. Banner suggested, that the presentation in the
evening to Mr. Brown, should take pace in the small
concert room, St. George's Hall.
Mr. Gladstone thought until it was decided what
architect should carry out the elevation, it was premature
to put a name on the plate. He trusted that no architect
would be employed who could net p tint to some erection
and say " '1 hat i, my handiwork."
Mr. Jeffery bad understood that Mr. Weightman was
to have called in the assistance of some architect of talent,
as regarded the elevation, and that the plans were to be
submitted to the council before being decided on.
Mr. Alderman Hoime contended that it would be doing
an injustice to Mr. Weightman, who was at present
engaged on the plans, and had very great labour imposed
upon him by the Council, not to have his name inscribed
upon the stone. (Hear, bear.)
Mr. Parker, Mr. Beckwith, Mr. Fernihough, and other
gentlemen having spoken,
Mr. Picton, in replying, contended that Mr. Weight-
man had every possible claim to have his name handed
down as the architect of the building. He bore high
testimony to the zeal, energy, and ability Mr. Weightman
had brought to bear in the preparation of the plans,
and declared that there had been no plan before the
committee, which, as regarded the internal
arrangements and the ground plan, at all ao-
proaehed Mr. Weightman's (Hear, hear.) It
was an admirable plan in all respects, and one which did
great credit to the town, and honour to that gentleman.
(Hear, hear ) The plans for the elevation were not yet
completed, and it would therefore be premature to criti-
cise them. He was aware that Mr. Brown felt the
fullest confidence in Mr. Weightman, and placed the
matter in his hands, unreservedly. With regard to the
introduction of the Town Clerk's name, he said the com-
mittee had no objection to inscribe the name of every
member of the Council, except that it would require
a pate about the size of a window shutter, (Laughter.)
Wt-i+ regard to the suggestion of Mr. Banner, he stated
that the Council had nothing whatever to do with the
evening meeting.
The report was then confirmed, it being understood
that Mr. Bold's suggestion, regarding the insertlon of the I
Town Clerk's name, should bo carried out. With regard
to the distribution of tickets, Mr. Ferniho ugh, Mr. Cites
Turner, and other gentlemen, strongly obj,cted to having
it left to the Council individually ;. and it was finally
agreed that, with the exception of 100 tickets to be placed
at the disposal of Mr. Brown, the committee should
arrange for the distribution at their own discretion.

The Coroner's account, amounting to £22 4s was passed.

THE CORPORATE PROPERTY.

The next business on the pap r was the following resolu-
tion, of which notice had been given by Mr. Robertson
Gladstone :—"For a return of all the property of the
corporation let to tenants at will, or on lease, of which the
original term did not exceed fourteen years, showing where
situated, the names of the occupiers, and the annual
rent."

Mr, Gladstone said : Mr. Mayor I regret very
much that upon the last occasion of our meeting
this subject did not come fairly before the Council's
consideration. It was prevented by an accidental
circumstance, arising, 1 believe, out of your kind-
ness and hospitality to the members of the Council in
providing refreshment for them in the next room. (Hear,
hear, and laughter.) The time passed quickly away, and
the gentlemen there assembled were not aware, 1 believe,
that the Council did not contain the requisite number at
the moment. The subject, sir, is one of very great
importance, and one with regard to which every member of
the Council who is well acquainted with the value of such
property ought to have an opportunity of correctly informing
himself. It is the duty of every member of the Council to be
well informed upon matters referring to the property belong.
ing to this corporation, let to annual tenants and paying
annual rents. It is quite as essential that all members
should be as well informed upon that subject as that they
should be with regard to the nature and extent of the
real property of the corporation. It is right that, taking
the value of money lent upon land at 5 per cent,
if not less, they should kn ,w that it was proposed
to dispose of the site of the old borough gaol
at £2 lOs per square yard. 1 say that, in defiance
of every other statement which has been made to the
contrary. Now, sir, I have upon several occasions
applied myself to this subject ; and without thinking it
necessary to go into any very extended details, I may
mention one or two instances to the council where, so far
as I am able to form an opinion—and without any merit
to myself, I may claim to have had some experience in
such matters—the property belonging to the corporation
is very much underlet. I would point, sir, to Exchange
Alley, in the immediate vicinity of this building. You
were told, I believe, some time ago, that changes were
contemplated with regard to this property, which
probably would be carried out in something like
two years. Now, sir, whether these changes be carried
out or not, I wish to call the attention of the Council to
the fact. There are tenants there under the Corporation
who have enjoyed the use of their various tenements at
rents wholly inconsistent, so far as I am able to form a
judgment, with the real letting value of the property.
(Rear, hear.) I can only say, in confirmation of this
opinion, that, so far as I am personally concerned, I am
quite prepared—if it is legal for me to make such an offer,
and for the Corporation' to accept it —to make a considerable
advance upon the annual amount received by the Corporation
for that property; and if there is anything illegal o
impracticable in the nature o- that offer, then I am prer
pared to say, that I will provide those who will step into
my shoes, and make the same offer. I can give no better
proof of the sincerity of my intention, and the honesty of
my purpose and belief,:than by saying that I am prepared,
if it be practicable, to be a party to such a measure. Now,
sir, one instance in exemplification—the case of this
Exchange Alley. There are eight tenants there,
whose gross rental, according to the books of the Cor-
poration, amounts to £1,065. I am prepared to giva
a very considerable advance for that properly if the
Corporation are disposed to farm it. I am
prepared to give £l,OOO for it, and if it were put up to
auction, I should be prepared to give something more. I
think it is unnecessary to go into details, because it might
appear inviduous if I were to produce the names of parties
who enjoy this property ; but I am prepared to stand by
the statement I have made, and it will very lunch depend
upon the course adopted, in consequence of these remarks
from me, whether I shall furnish the details or not.
The next property to which I would call your attention is
the George Hotel, Dale street let at a rent of £4OO a year.
Why, sir, the stables alone are worth very nearly £2OO
a year. I believe, so far as 1 can procure the information,
that there is accommodation there for something like 40
horses, and in that particular locality a calculation of £5
per stall is a very low one indeed. (Hear, hear.) I do
not hesitate to say that to have that valuable site allowed
to be occupied by an hotel at all is a very great mistake.
([Jeer, hear.) I should like to know what would have been
said by the proprietors of the Liverpool Fire and Life
Insurance Offices if they had been naked, " Why don't
you convert your handsome building into a hotel ? Look at
the glorious rental produced from the George Hotel—
£4oo a year." (Hear, hear, and laughter.) There are
members of the council who must be aware what that
building will produce to the Liverpool rim and Life
Offices, I contend that the purpose of the building in '
Dale street ought immediately to be changed ; it should
be converted into offices. I speak within the bounds of
certainty when I say that that building, instead of
producing £4OO ay, ar, would produce near £BOO. At least ,
I am myself prepared to give £6OO for it. Now, sir, as
you are well aware the property belonging to this corpora- I
tion, let to annual. tenants, is very considerable, and I

situated in various parts of the town. To enumerate
any instances now would occupytoo mulh of the
time of the Council. It is ' right faso twat I
should confine myself for the present to th^L;v,rn of estate,
and not refer to the Birkenhead est its at al!. Titere is one
point which I think it essentially necessary should be
enquired into. With a certain n un').2a. of tonants the
corporation have, under the Newsham house estate

in sparicular, I believe that there is no legal agree-
ment existing which would stand good in a court of law,
so that if the tenant chooses to dispute his rent, or
anything else in connexion with the holding, there is no
legal document to prove what the terms of the letting
really were. There are documents existing, but having
looked into them they do not appear to me to be of that
character which is sufficient in case of a disetee. I,
however, do not upon that head, it is hardly necessary for
me say, put my opinion in opposition to that of the
Town Clerk. It is very far from my wish to make any
observation upon what is going forward in the treasurer's
office. I was very much pleased to day to find that the
various agreements, which were little better than a dusty
bundle a month ago, are now, in consequence of a remark
I made, put into something like decent order, tied
together, and numbered, so that whether valid agreements
or otherwise, there is something yoga can refer to, and
that without much difficulty. That change has been
produced already by the enquiry I have so far made.
For myself I am anxious to obtain this return, because I
consider it is my duty, so long as I remain a member of
this Council, to keep myself weal posted up with regard to
the letting property belonging to the Corporation. (Hear,
hear) I make no charge against any individual, but I
think the sytem is bad. For instance, I have been in-
formed that the mode of letting property is a matter which
lies between the collector and the surveyor. Now, with all
due deference to the surveyor —and there is no occasion for
me to blow his trurapr,t, as he seems to have lots
of friends in the Contact', and is very fortunate, in-
deed, in that respect-1 do not think it is a good
arrangement. (Rear, hear.) I think that, although, as a
surveyor, he is a very excellent man, others are quite as
competent, if not more so, to form an opinion as to the real
letting value of property than he is. Now, if this has been
the mode in which the property has been let, think it a

very injudicious one, and I should very much prefer to see
the whole management of the estate in this particular
branch, placed in the hands of the Improvement Committee.
I shall, therefore, without occupying the attention of the
Council further, because I consider that it is a matter
which at once recommends itself to the notice and attention
of every member of the Council. move the resolution.
Mr. J. R. Jeffery seconded the resolution, reserving
any remarks he had to make for the present.
Mr. Alderman Holme did not think there could be the
slightest objection to the return being furnished which
Mr. Gladstone had moved for, and he would take care
that it should be laid upon the table of the council
at the next meeting • or if not the next, the council
following. He hoped to be able to get it done,
even with the present staff, for the next council.
If Mr. Gladstone had brought forward any specific
instances with which he could have dealt, he should have
replied to him, bat his charges—for charges to some
extent they were—were of a general character. However,
when the return was made out, be should endeavour to
mike himself acquainted with the various rentals p lid to
the corporation, and he would venture to say that, taking
the average of the corporate rents, it would be found that
few properties produce a bet ter rental than the corporation
generally got. The council, however, must remember that,
generally speaking, property which came into the hands
of the corporation was purchased by the Council for
public improvements, and almost invariably came into
their hands in a very dilapidated condition. Allu4 -n had
been made to Exchange Alley. lie thought it wis while
Mr. Gladstone was a member of the Council, and, fur
aught he knew of the Finance Commiltee also, that the
rents there were raised. He believed the rents had been
again raised. Within the last few years—and the last few
years only—property bad been increasing in value to
a very great degree in a circuit of 400 or 500
yards round the Town Hall ; but Mr. Gladstone
had forgotten to say that the Council had been expecting
for some years to remove the main bridewell, which was
wholly insufficient for its purposes, and had therefore
been expending no money in repairs to accommodate their
tenants. if gentlemen would 100 c at the site of these
buildings, they would see what improvements were being
made by other landlords there. The finance committee
did not lay out money upon buildings which they pro.
posed, with the consent of the Council, to bring to sale
by public auction as soon as they were in a condition to
get their new bridewell built. Thwarted and
delayed as they were by the circuraloeutioa office
of the govtrnmeut, they did not knew when they could
get it completed ; but as soon as this was done the wh-le
of that property, together with the property recently pur-
chased from the Recorder to make a complete block,
would be offered by public auction. In that uncertain
position it was not considered worth while to give
notice to the various tenants to leave the property
for the reasons he hal jest stated. Mr. Gladstone
had alluded to other places. It was notorious that
the Council had purchased property in various
places for the purpose of public improvements. They had
taken a shop, for instance, for the purpose of carrying out
an improvement, about which Mr. Jeffery was very anxious,
as they all were, at the bottom of Church street. He did
Lot recollect the exact rent, but he undertook to say that
it paid as fair a rent as any other shop there. They
bought property in Park lane and other places for similar
purposes, and this property consisted frequently of old
houses, which came into their hands in a very dilapidated
condition, until they had got a sufficient number
together to sell. The surveyor was generally authorised
to put tenants into them, as, if they did not, the places
would become mere wrecks. Tae ti-eant; -were there simply
from year to year, so that when the period came, and it was
ripe for the market, it could ba dispussd of by giving the
tenants notice at any time whatever, when they wanted to
make a better dietributiun. The Council must putcon-
fidence in some one, when they had a large property like
that to manage. When there were yards to be let, the
surveyor reported to the committee, the committee gave them
sanction, and these matters were frequently mentioned
in the minutes read to the Council, but the truth was
that when the minutes were being read, gentlemen were
very often talking, and paying no attentionialto them.
(Hear, hear.) Suajects of that kind had been mentioned
in the minutes of the Finance Committee, even that day,
to which no one seemed to pay any attention. He had
again to say that the return should be furnished ; and
when it was made, if any specific charge was urged, he
should be perfectly prepared to give a reason, and he
ventured to say a valid reason, for everything which had
been done. (Hoar, hear.)
Mr. Jeffery thought Mr. Reline was somewhat inconsis-
tent when he stated that Mr. Gladstone had brought no
spccific case forward, and immediately after proceeded to
reply to the specific case of Exchange Alley, and the
George Hotel.

Mr. Holme : I beg to say that I did not allude to the
George Hotel at all. •

Mr. Jeffery : Then I shall do so. I should first be
glad to hear when the rents of the Exchange Alley property
were raised, and how long they have remained at their
present rental ?

Mr. Holme : I cannot tell you from memory. Ido not
pretend to carry the Corporation books in my head. I
think it in Ist be same ten or twelve years ago.
Mr. Jeffery said he believed he was right in saying
that it was twenty years since these rents were raised, and
they had remained in statu quo until that day. How
much longer they would so remain, he did not think any
gentleman could venture to say. Now, he thought there.
co'ild be no ;dissenting voice from his statement, when
he said that the rents ought to have been raised at least
three times within that period. And that if the
property had been in the hands of any private
gentlemen of that Council they would have
been so raised. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the George
Hotel, he believed that a hotel in the immediate neighbour-
hood, the Crooked Billet, which had not half the land and
had no stabling whatever, paid a rental of £6OO a year.
When, therefore, Mr. Gladstone stated that £BOO a year
could be obtained for the George Hotel, he believed he was
very much under the mark, and that 50 per cent. advance
upon £BOO a year c raid be obtained. He should like to
know how long that property was to remain in its
present condition, returning a revenue of £4OO a year, and
when it would be considered ripe for the market ? He
thought it would be very beneficial if such an enquiry were
answered, with regard to that and other property.
Mr. Sheil strongly advoc tted the motion, and especially
condemned the manner in which the Newsham House
property was allowed to lie idle.
Mr. Alderman Parker vehemently contended that the
return was unnecessary, and that if such causes of com-
plaint existed, Mr. Gladstone ought to have brought them
forward years ago.
Mr. Gladstone briefly replied, and in doing so, remarked
(amid much laughter) that Mr. Parker possessed, if he
might use such an' expression, a sort of diarrhoea of
words, which, to his (Mr. Gladtone's) obtuse intellect,
was wholly incomprehensible.
The return was then ordered.
THE COUNCIL CFLAMB3II.
Mr. Glidstone moved the following resolution according
to notice That the Council Chamber b: eularged by
adding the present anteronn and lobby thereto, according
to the original design, a plan of which is now in possession
of the surveyor; that the lobby adj.ining the keeper's
apartment, east end, be canverted into an anteroom ; that a
new passage, to complete the approach to the council
chamber, rendered necessary by this appropriation of the
lobby, (now used as a passage) be opened by the removal
of the safe, &e., attached to Mr. Hughes' office."
Mr. Gladstone in introducing, the resolution,