Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1859-04-07 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT"

HOUSE OF COMMONS —WEDNEsDAY• ,
•
LORD PALMERSTON'S LATE SPEECH ON TILE REF°IL,
Lord Palmerston said that he took this opportunity 0!
11. lie "a
On the order of the day for going into committee of elp Mg' g,
certain passages in his late speech on the Reform Tact in tIllej.;;
been accused by Lord Derby of unconstitutional con,„,net.
tioning, the pierogative of the Crown to dissolve Para'—
', Lineation V.!:
one in his senses would have,,thought of calling with IT
right of the Queen of taking such a course in accordance bugge-g_
constitutional advisers. What were the facts. The Plibiteitg by
happened to be in such a state that it would be thr°
not been
dissolution into utter confusion ; the supplies 111 there beeartt
granted ; no appropriation had been made ; neither hadbf
any financial statement. Unless business was accelera, gijatl.
house, it would be most difficult to dissolve without se that a d'!„
to the country. Under such circumstances he had sarb! :he boa,'
solution could not take place without the consent 01.1..suppliq,
Parliament might have told the ministers to bring intlieutren prsetii
to go on with imperative measures, and to dissolve" nvive act',
cable. In the mean time the House of Commons would nitgiste'
constitutionally if it had interposed its advice between rile go d'sl4.
and the Crown, to have presented an address, praying or
solution should take place until after the passing of a refo',riiitaste
that the crown might displace its present advisers. As "al to t.„
he did not advise any - such course. He • preferred an a.,PPehad e°ie
country, feeling quite confident as to the result. I.e not i° t,
curred in the resolution of Lord John Russell, but it Wale, poin4
concluded from this that he agreed with him in every o.'s'oject re"
or thatthere was a perfect identity between them on the , igto
reform. He agreed with his noble friend in the outline ?1,., detail'
measure, which he had sketched on Monday, but as to tav
he retained the opinion which he had formerly expressed. not °Pelf
Sir J. Pakington said that the speech of Lord Derby ,rtt,,,,sdhires d
to the criticism which had been made upon it. Ile '`istol.,
an
been the first to bring this accusation against Lord Palrne,,bie
he still maintained that the opinions expressed by that reace,i
on the occasion referred to, were not consistent with dui'o,
to the Crown, and did call the Royal prerogative in que'tea.er"et
Palmerston had made a direct threat, that if the Crown
its right to dissolve Parliament, the House of Conine', °cog%
refuse the supplies. The conduct of the noble lord on 10iloptei
formed a striking contrast to the very proper course be twise
Monday. He could not regard the former speech oille;tered,„"gt
as a threat, and was glad that the noble lord had egisTh
opinions as to the reply the country would give to the aPPtv gob
to be made to it. He entertained equal confidence w hit
lord. a to Seri
Sir G. Grey complained that Sir J. Pakington was rea
five the right of that House to offer advice to her 31_4„esoge 11°110
reprobating the irregularity of the course adopted wne,," other,'d be
of Parliament commented on the proceedings 01 coto „oa
expressed a hope that the issue to be tried by the coun'lljed
strictly defined, and that the constituencies would be era,.
Lord
to decide on the principles of a further measure of re.f°,o of
Col. French expressed his approbation of the vie"
Palmerston. f reno
Mr. Malins denied that the issue to be raised was that ° 'OP X
agg to'
The most determined opponents of the late bill were igen" t,
retirement of the present ministry. How, if that retiree 011;3
place, were the liberal party 'to go on without adopting, the
which was directly opposed to the views of its princiPa' De_el
Sir G. C. Lewis said, that a distinct issue ought to be to her
the country. The real question was the merits of the_ iv) ottlie
principles of the late bill of the Government. There W7tte
issue, as the present ministry would scarcely raise OA toPO,O
retention of their offices.- After the seven nights, ull'oar' go%
the bill had been debated, to declare thatthe conduct of __„t to
was wantinglin respect to the Crown, was a direct attenir
1e of
pose on the credulity of the country. he sr, by
Sir J. Pakington said, that he had not alluded, bolt"
the want of respect to the Crown, to the conduct of tha,, stess
to the expressions of Lord Palmerston.
appo
that of
Mr. B. Osborne, after expressing his satisfaction •• zae0ga
had appealed to the country, asked if it was true that a itisb
that house had beenappointed as a third judge _of
Of iltedeere
cumbered Estates Courts, in the face of a large',"
ngebt
business. •cb
Lord Naas stated, in his opinion, that the ob. of
was in strict accordance with the act and with the oP"iecres3-013
had been clearly expressed by that House. As to rbe,hat it ,
business in the court the pressure was so uncertain
not with certaint be aid to be de creasin aPr
Mr. Mellor thouy ghts that, under the circumstances,
ts'" I
ment ought not to have been made. ,„, Igo o
Mr. S. Estcourt, recurring to the remarks of Lord °Ppot
said that the tone of his speech on the Reform 11ii`pli trg
direct defiance. The course pursued by Lord J. 11.1s' l
itoa tfetig,
a defeat of the Reform Bill so much as an interruP tge og'
business of the country. The issue to be tried before '610(.0'
was this, whether public bnsiness was to be carried ° to 000
such interruption, or whether it was to be handed o`;eflie
This was the only question as to which the decision of '

ougM
ht to be tak.- .
r. Lindsay skid that he had supported the reselu,trpor f
he thought the bill a bat:, one, but he would not have ,'r „tee '
vote of want of confidence in her Majesty's ministers' 000 ,
0"
After some further discussion the house went into
es eltos
supply.
Several votes were taken on account of the civil sercinferO it,
navy estimates, in the course of which Sir C. We()(l,,c„--iciegeeseri?
lengthy defence of conduct of the late AdmiraltY, s,'‘',,ient ',BO
had not in any way neglected the construction of ews,;as "P De
or left the coast without defence. The statement
tii'd t
by Sir J. Pakington. tieg'
This business occupied the remainder of the 'it
house adjourned at six o'clock-

LB IAN- EN
urpnrCEDup.
Berkeley
tocTseiyoTErouL.::. . —Asßed" yet, nothing
ELECTION NEWS., who,:
there will' be any. contest. If Conservative,. Lie ill
meeting
forwardo:
erirmett
ateeiirinngtluytaaiorbutceaeaalranlso:decwounsmut
eaaslttlty.e matters
et
10l remain
informed,as theythat a:ler,. t:_th,,, ee rree ,0
generally appear to be same. It is however wrrt. Tosi,wiii
will be brought forward, and if that be so, then icl '
„ill ?°,,iog
WARRINGTON.—The Liberals of Warring:tett f broi°r-
sent member, at
s-
elect
Mauriceltlo cMCO candidate
atdhtaoeyisfno,
forthcoming
000
msnist
iiindogne retltoehex
let
election.
rn. o.p
Greenrtet
ya a ;0: :0
—Mr.
.tnLytoehh:fyisamirvrighdterbhaw. oentebsithmroaaoteondioyd,usclsegoeislichgeotitaeutic_seePon,tarriiidtvioeitwbseciort:az.tobeaboct
so Sole
expectedhtwhiime thseeleliv
rfeta
sro.trosacboL.ef citbomhemirsoaebnlakoc:cooauncughsdehird.vaattei
Conservative, has
ht a
sh i, s
Issued b o r o 11 ga : d e 5_,... se
rr,l ;
fuiirssthlusoeoriknto d
up a Ili 3A 13 '
ste
the
..
paclaccepetiendtthhiesircionuvnittyataionnd to offer himself.
high
securei
gDh e-
or r,nDa
tAnhLder r
will
DUNDALK.—There
l l
poll. T
nho e t 1
fr e
interfere
i s
B en ol
Bellew
doubt
cootetcck lb;
majority.
jeohrimvo.resirujloahrnthmaancnaetilwlhis last election, andstreolie 15
borLoouNgDhomNem(Cbietry,).!
exertions to take his place, and it is said gr• fire hi: ore
Thehestmanodrsni:gle is deciue" i it
popular man in the North of Ireland.
rumour, that Lord Stanley will be nominatedidvelt
of London. it is
OxFonn.—Mr. Cardwell and Mr. Langston? of
1‘1.19. re'
will be elected without opposition. late op_
DUDLEY.—It is stated that Viscount Monk, tbe
Postsmouth, will offer himself a candidate for
.fit
V'
sentation of this borough. ~i. fir' 30.
HALIFAX.—It is said, in anticipation t', Fidingtor 0
Crossley being brought forward for the is saes'
Appleyard, of Halifax has been named ashls If for
the representation of that borough.
"rase
Mr. Walter leaves Nottingham and Offers,.
Berkshire. fjeeco
: for j,
Mr. M. T. Baines declines to stand again invite flak
brother, Edward Baines, will, it is thougut"4. -rebl gr. :
Mr. Lowe will be opposed at Kiddermins4°- f Vie
o 1
dleston of the Oxford Circuit. eleet°rs Vl'
Mr. Atherton has issued an address to the absenee„tioo
City of Durham, explaining the cause of was his jute'
i ser fog
ril the' e
ssiCi:
the Reform division, and stating that it was
to have voted for the resolution.
Gmern. eFr a.lpWe
eyln
hdashabme
en iretiresnyit
invited
tom re s Easto:el.
his of Iv
010
Sir Benjamin Hall, in his address to the electorsue_cies 10,..vt.0te
decide, in the following. shape. He says',
lebone,. put the question which the conse
03pjuionoloil
country is to be taken, not only as to wuettliiler
Commons N•
r:gisatice7l
which has been passed by the House of vefortn;,,,ed 7,
resolution, but also whether a measure
.slcf saantcat.
and more comprehensive than that which .
.3! parliat be.
the Government, shall or shall not be passed D,,Y..c; otl 130,1 tr
Lord Stanley, it is said, will be bronght,l° oration,
bv
Ole ;
t been gr. be
MAIDSTONE.—No arrangements have place of ,or t c
the
the conservative party for supplying.
Maidstone for ti.i
Cityonly ofin mentioned in
inbuotnethjeourrenpaolr.t lacks conta
J. Beresford Hope, who is about leaving
hisgtiltive go 0
colleag ja 0
unsuccessful candidate in 1857, will be. - covnjulleti Ai-
loyunrresresityofosfeeckainnigbreidlegcoti.onmaas
jotrhsenoretr,,
..0
olio
7;30._
the present occasion by the liberals in
offer himself for re-election. Mr. lArb'roj:ml;t for:
epftitil
fare, Vii,
another gentleman not yet named. of sira eitabo
FINSBURY. —A requisition is in coursetra 9. ,s ,
sel, - 0- 0
ing upon Mr. Serjeant Parry to preset), ,„,_10.5 D° t wan
date. There was a rumour that Mr. "W
the
confirmation. "n ail dd"stull hi
does not intend to offer himself as a candidate' but
to .0
GREENwicra.—Alderman Salomans,
they will re
electors, expresses his confidence that
to the new parliament. orfsolkott. t
at 13.41.1,0..,

TOWN COUNCIL.
The monthly meeting of the Town Council was held in
tile Town Rall, at eleven o'clock yesterday. The Mayor,
Williani Preston, Esq., presided.
FINANCE COMMITTEE.
The minutes of this committee contained the following
teeftnendations : - Recommendation to consent to the
to4Bigninent of the lease of Messrs. Clayton and McKeverigant
graving docks, ship yards, and premises in Birkenhead,
the Woodside Graving Company (Limited). Recom-
ineudation that LIOOOOO
C , part of a sum repayable to the
raidero,poration b ,
y the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board,
the 39th section of the Mersey Docks and Harbour
Aet, 1857, in respect of outlay and expenditure by the Cor-
!°tatien, be lent to the Board on bond, for the term of five
4rsea, bearing interest at four pounds per centum per
anci
valuler4. Report in reference to Messrs. Tyson
a quick) cterks in the Town Clerk's establish-
ment, and Mr. Fresh, the inspector of nuisances.
:4eecnninendation to appropriate a sum, not exceeding £IOO,
te'vards improvingWhitefieldelate, Everton, provided satis-
facto,
1... --J arraugements be made with the owners of adjoining
-.ale
en -e- Recommendation to appropriate £I,OOO towards
R.,-41tititting Vauxhall-road on an improved line, between
-"'e-latte a d S dhills-hridge, provided satisfactory D.-Ir!ngeinents nbe manacle with the owners of adjoining lands.
17Amendation to sell by auction, on lease for :75 years,
"Ps Properties now fallen into possession,
1;4;9% S. tewart moved the confirmation of the first recom-
feenciatt°a, and stated that the property was originally let
re a tenn of 25 years from the Ist July, 1854, to Messrs.
eiayto
Os. 4 -and Mclteverigan, at a rent of £1,472 per
mune
,th.. ~
The recontrnendatro. n was confirmed.
ta'''.,; teveart then moved the confirmation of the recom-
ennatioa to lend £IOO,OOO to the dock board. He
the that £IOO,OOO did not trench at all upon
great sum of
ci one million-and-a-half, which,
r"n er the act of Parliament, was to be paid bythe pocks'
id Ilarbour Board to the Corporation, at periodical timr--
a '9,000 ev eel' six months —and which sams, by of
rniartihiament,
.bore 41 per cent. interest, and were applicable,
the
teo first instance, to the payment of the bonded debt of
side rporation, exceeding, -as the total sum did very con-
tetarah,lY, the ;amount of that 'bonded debt. But the present
paid £IOO,OOO was part of a second sum which was' to be
J.15,4'4,11.0 the ,cerporation under act of parliament, and which
had t 0 the month of -January last. The tal amount
elahor° °e ascertained by reference to very laborious and
'Wasp in accounts, extending back over_ some years. It
he sump 111POiRt of fact, the trepaynient to the corporationof
docks which were expended by them on the Birkenhead.
a eoth 4,nd works, involving all sorts of ame , in fact,
WllOl-ePttiete debtor and >creditor account, extending over the
'°llicea,!", and embracing every payment made by the
'ant -11°4 in respect to these docks. That
t
bete •
knouot e interest at 4 per cent. The exact
a trate et' the whole account was ascertained within
4'30 O'nalld might be taken in round numbers at
,„e'airna' airman, The Mersey Docks and Harbour board, by their
: ehaino';'erne three•weeks ago, addressed aletter to shim
Zero re d.A4l,_ of the finance committee, stating taint 'they
"as incna-"° pay ZIOO,OOO. Now, the whole of that sum
frok sceY Which the corporation were precluded by
tlaewr
t° Proetidiug• It must be invested in some way • oree.tha_.
With ace income to the corporation as part of its capital.
bee, the Perioajoa
ra":!._ tehoe payments they were receiving m
oee.a a-half million, the finance committee
DeaVoun _on doing. the best thing they
of
for the cor-
TeZ! in eresyby payin woof. the bonds as 'fast as_ their
tOellhymen
the -would all Two of the periodical
ts had fallen due, one on the Ist-of last July, and.
the
_°ther on the Ist of January last, and of the second
t
teoal'°elinittee had £40,000 which they •could not at
alaae,ntaPPropriate. They, therefore, feltthat it would be
_t
411t01111 them to accumulate £IOO,OOO more by putting
. i
.lital at aill, at the present . _ low ' rate of interest,
• leis tA the same time they considered that it would not be
eitak'egaire the Dock Board to keeprthat money in the
the 40 Meet the claims of the corporation, not kzowing
had Y when the claim Might be made. The committee
the3,4°, eceasion for the money during the year ---in fact,
Proso&Illd have a great accumulation, of money,
Plyh',",lY of the corporation was dependent upon halleidr tahpe-
votilatule Pains to ascertain the exact position the council
they
pliciWould then have £52,000 and some odd hundreds nnap
that ef the money which would be payable to them prior to
Pee oa„e and on the very next day they would have anotherry
iarge'"u (Tile to thene It was true that in 1860 a
ra_
tie% egantnit of bonds would fall due, but still the coirem
Which 'cenl have a large ,snrplus of money left to £h em,
1144,10,01dd be their duty to put to the best interest,t for,
~...twhheichhesCeeel\ecrirsecutTsadtanocets - the committee considered that
'would be to offer the 't 109,00
aLtnai tf- -"oelc Board pwere ready to pay to that board, to
lereellr," a term of five years- at 4 per -cent. ; and he
Ch„Atr.°:fA4T-ovea that that recommendation be confirmtoetim
eat
btohei;erY said, it had for some time occurred
financial
thenarragements, so far as they r.elaste,ed to:
raitteesnded debt of council, and of the vatr.loonu tele i_,, were not placed in the best possible
.The:i
the
forthe
tf some of the corporation. He spoke in h presence
fa e teenibers of the water committee, when he . _
fee moneythat c
a 'ew months since that committee advertised
ilkso at :31 per cent., and no more. They had re;
sl°e4ea:',?•,'l(l they received money at 31 per cent., b
rkpekritt'eleQatfileir advertisement take effect, then anotherffered
the ,council advertised for money, and
ater omit The -consequence was, that the supply offered
the
ealt4ee at 31 per cent. ceased forthwith, and the
nd. tileclinnittee which had offered 4 per cent., s t course
had toe PreferenCe. Since then the water committee had
thew,
it money, and they had to pay four per cent.
o eralttervilould appear that whilst the. health committee and
Pay f committee had been seeking money and willing
D°siti ?er Per cent. for it, the finance committee. had
4'4 leveLY been. in the possession of £eo,ooo which they did
),/,'°,.,w what to do with. ("No, no:"1
dot'4 the la wart said, that was not so. There was £40,000
'lot 1,A;4,,5t instalment payable on the lstaTanuary whichzhad_
yet
be instalment applied to the extinguishing of the bonded
4P4P4l:yilieteause there were no bonds to which they could so
' but the course they had adopted, and which_ Ire
_
torpo re every one would admit to be for the interest of the
A 'ati
to the day when they
PNile , was this: They knew
/'e 4 ibuire money and when a bond fell due, and thya
'I,Y th°ttee to the treasurer of the dock board that on such .
11to to e
thatould require such a sum, and the money was paid
14 ddal, the interest on so much stopped from
u° bea',l, trltilliso applied, the £40,000 would, therefore,
had' ~11(as four per cent. interest. (Hear, hear.)
t' " °ler)! thought it would be well if one ,committnee
10in,.0 clo
14 Is Wholly with the renewing of the bonds ~.beet
,!*at) he would suggest that the finance eommitt
ii"errowrilve something like three months'. notice to the two
*lte th,,i colurnittees that, on a given day, they should
glllla I- `dsPosal of a certain amount of money, whieli they
ear, hod to either of these committees at four per cent.
CohTiiall ti ar.) If this did no more, it would save the cost
ere 1 °les entailed by borrowing from other. parties._
etelse 44waYs were legal inquiries, legal investigations, and k(l.4eati
NAlder legal fees. (Hear, hear.)
ee eaan Dover thouaht it would be well that the
lip,4 Ittee„
111, the 82.4°111d meet at s'ome stated periods, to confer_
Of hs `l.O,JeCt, and to arrange with regard to the borrow
,Ahe ?ney.
lh eedincrs we • then confirmed.
q 1 he fonowingbis the re ort in reference to Messrs. Tyson,
t4!tatZ'd and
Pre-sh :_« 'Four committee have carefully invetso-
qe financele circumstances mentioned by the town-clerko two
zietiftkiiiii.ericesolitmittee, in reference to the conduct f
his establishment, namely, Messrs. Tyson
s
Zee4clere-ac%;.; and your committee report that the latter a
-ePtea resignation to the town-clerk, who. has
ePireoh the same. Mr. Tyson's conduct cannot, in the
° town
:oiage,er Your committee, be justified, but considering his
ve. ei_aild that he has been upwards of 33 years in the.
"ated-43'er's department, and that he was, until incapaci-
fvo, y ileel,
rier eomnii,,,ir ay, a most laborious and efficient clerk,
~the t Like recommend, that in re-arranging the staff
ale. ,r ov#ll-eierk,s office, which has now become necessary,
Perfor Ysen be retained at a moderate weekly stipend, to
01g. l'il, such light duties as he is now capable of discharg-
Itiltan he enquiries of your committee were, in the first
blit thee' directed tom rthlir-ceasshe, of Messrs. Tyson and Quick,
been. e3' foundthat the inspector of nuisances, has
to
Dr 0 niixed
ta 4 lip in the various transactions, and has taken
utlaeerrare 1 tiille‘
Cusps,
part therein, that it was impossible to
i -ases, and although that officer is not
40 oper,he enmediate control of the finance committee, had
!ernazoii-;.° eat to investigate, also the ease as to him. Your
esigi Pe are infor
'nice. all°ll to the Old that M. r Fresh has tendered his
feehiTed that it
je health committee. Your committee are
ft°re hanY of the 04e practice in some public offices to
and servants employed therein
in 1 °coming securitye officersßfor others, and from engaging
lugs, t 0
transactions between each other ; and in
avoid the recurrence of such proceoed-
ilr
COrtikit".S: it has been the painful duty of y _
tele to",
.to investigate, we recommend that
~ ae
eon, this effect be established by resolution of In.,
iii. C; applicable to every department of the corpora,.
h Air. St
44 eaa to the said, in consequence of some matters that
was a 'le t° the notice of the town-clerk, a sub-committee..
the PPointed for the purpose of making some inquiry into
cotatleoittd.uct of certains persons in his establishment. That
Anbjeet, -aelodeoted considerable time and attention to.th.e
" although Mr, Fresh, who name appeared in

WATCEI COMMIWEE.

•
the report, was not in' the category of the town-clerk's
establishment, and whose conduct was made the subject of
enquiry, the matter was so ,mixed up that it became
necessary to examine a great many of the officials connected
with the corporation on this painful inquiry. On that
coatmittee of inquiry they had the benefit of the chairman
Ind deputy-chairman of the health committee, in whose
service Mr. Fresh was immediately concerned, and he
believed' those gentlemen would say that it was totally
impossible to go into the inquiry, and limit it to the clerks
and the officials in the town-clerk's office. It would not
be necessary for him to move that the resignation of Mr.
Quick' be adopted by the council, because Mr. Quick was
one of these officials immediately under the town-clerk
who engaged and discharged them as he thought proper.
The Town-clerk : It is so.
Mr. Stewart said, the gentlemen who had heard the
report read, would see that it was proposed that the town-
clerk should find some employment for Mr. Tyson,. whose
conduct had been that of an unwise man. No doubt, the
gentlemen would recollect that, for thirty-five years he dis-
charged the duties which fell upon him, and was a very
active man in the office, He was now about 7.6 years of
age, and if would be cruel to turn him adrift on
the wide world, with a very sick wife and
daughter, he believed. Had he . been a younger
man, he would have been dismissed, Yet they
they thought it advisable to keep him there the remainder
of his days, at a weekly salarf. While he spoke of that
salary, he would keep it very moderate. The poor old man's
affairs were in such a state, that it appeared they would not
be doing much injury ; for although he had £250 a. year,
yet it appeared that he had not more than £BO, as his
money all went to some mystical societies, for bonds and
loans. The committee was presided over. by Mr. John
Aikin, and copious notes were taken by Mr. Samuel Holme
-who, he was sorry, was not present, from an accident that
he had recoived—and could have illustrated the points, if
necessary. Mr. Dove; Mr. Shimmin, Mr. Cooper, and the
Mayor, .and'himself constituted the committee. He con-
cluded by moving that -the resignation. of Messrs. Tyson
and Fresh be accepted.
The motion was seconded by Mr. Turner, and confirmed
without further remark.
Mr. Stewart rose to move the adoption of the next re-
commendation, in reference to the proposed improvements
-in Whitefield-lane. It was, he said, proposed to make
the crooked lane into 'a straight one. The health 'com-
mittee had reported on the matter to ,the finance coutnrittee,
•atid it appeared that £atlo would effect the necessary im-
.provement. It appeared that the owners of property on
the east side ef the croaked lane would get additional land
'by making n straight lane, and those on the ether side
would have ;o give land. The gentlemen on the,cast side
had spoken very fairly, and said 'they would give 5s for
every square 'yard of land; but those on the -ether side
said they would have 10s. Thelnance committee, on the
representation of the health committee, thought it would
be well to give £lOO to carry out the arrangement. He t
therefore moved that the recommendation be adopted.
The motion was seconded by Alderman ',Cooper, and
confirmed. •

Mr. Anderson drew attention to the state of Evertou
village, and the great need of improvement; in that little
corner.

Mr. 'Stewart moved that the next :recommendation
be adopted. In,reference to the proposed improvements from
Rake-lane to Sandhills-bride, he stated that Lord Derby
was willing to carry the _:improvements as far as his
estate ran, and it would be a most important improvement
in :that part 'of the town. It would require £1,1700 to
complete the -improvement from Rake-lane to Santihills-
bridge._

Mr. Woodruff thought 'it was desirable that they should
carry on improvements more in the centre of the town,
where they were needed for the convenience of traffic. He
•priinted.to the locality of Ohisenhale-street particularly.
Mr. Earle said that Mr. Woodruff was speaking of the
general imprnvement of the town, but this was a place
where the land was absolutely vacant.
The recommendation was confirmed.
Mr. Stewart moved that the recommendation to sell by;
auction the leases, for seventy-five years, of various proper-
ties now fallen into possession, be adopted. He said, there
,were only two or three important lots in these, the rest
were all miscellaneous, and they -were carrying out the
recommendation, as far as possible, to destroy old cottages.
Mr. Cooper seconded the motion.
Mr. Jeffery asked whether the principle of commutation
would be .applied to these lots of property ? and if •so,
whether' it weuld be made known lo the council and the
public?
Mr. Stewart, in reply, -said that out of silty lots ortly
three could come under the principle, and the matter wild
be made known to the council.
The recommendation was confirmed

Mr. Stewart then moved the general proceedings of the
.finance committee, which were confirmed without opposi-
tion.

The proceedings of this committeewere tread, and dlso
a letter from Mr. J. S. Mansfield, S.M., addressed to the'
chief of the police, stating that •he withdrew his order of
the Nth Jane east with reference to the prosecution of.
the keepers of .eoffee-houses, &c.
Mr. Clint •moved the confirmation of the :proceedings of
the committee, .and in doing -•so -said, he would take that
opportunity of stating that the watch committee were per-
fectly 'satisfied 'with the explanation of Mr. Mansfield, who
said he never thought of charging the police with pecuniary
corruption, but what was meant was, that he had
drawn :an inference from one or two instances. He
(Mr. Clint) would take that opportunity of expressing their
confidenee.in the-efficiency of the police force, who were
highly commended by the government inspector. This
was a peat matter to have the good opinion of the
government inspector, and he had great pleasure in moving
the confirmation of the proceedings-of the committee.
Mr. Aikin said. ,he might say the committee were not
unanimous on .the subject. Mr. Mansfield had admitted
that he had used strong and exaggerated language, but at
the same time he seemed very desirous to have an investi-
gation into their.conduet before the committee. He would
soy that, having gone over the whole matter very carefully,
the case appeared to be something very curious. Mr.
Mansfield was of the opinion which he had been at first,
and stated that the police had been actuated by extraneous
influence, and that was 'hut saying that he had not altered
his opinion. It would have been as well, he thought, to
havelallowed .the matter to have been settled before the watch
committee, and they would have instituted a searching
inquiry, if it had been thought necessary ; and then
it would have been proved whether the police were acting
under any influence whatever.
Dr. Hodson said that he for one had objected to the
resolution.. The subject had been so well brought before
the public, that he thought it would be out of place 'to
discuss the a social evil" in the council chamber; but 'he was
satisfied that the statements were as much exaggerated on
the part of the committee, as on the part of the magistrates.
Mr. -set made a few observations with re-
gard to the proceedings of the committee, and said
that Mr. Mansfield had had no intention of charging the
police with pecuniary corruption, and that his statement had
been made from an inference, but' e still held his opinion
that there was an extraneous influence. He would ask, in
case of a public abuse, would not the newspapers make it
known, and would the police not then be liable ; and would
not that be an extraneous influence, and many other matters
such as that would be called by the same name. He did
not think it right to draw conclusions from one or two
instances. When a police officer was first employed by the
watch committee, he got a book of instruction put
into his hand, which he was told he must learn as
quickly as possible. Mr. Mansfield lately rescinded
these regulations, and gave them a new order, which was
that no more informations was to be laid against keepers of
coffee and eating houses giving refreshments to prostitutes,
unless it would be different from a certain case tried in the
Court of Queen's Bench, and it was rather a hard matter for
police officers to decide whether it was different or not. He
had no desire to go into the matter, but he could not agree
with his friend Dr. Hodson that it was a question not to
be brought before the council, or out of place there. It was
a great evil, and it might be found by the people to be a
great nuisance. He would not say that he wished them to
discuss a moral question at all, but as a nuisance, affecting
the town, and which they, as town councillors, wore called
upon to prevent. After some further remarks, on this view
of the matter, Mr. Stitt sat down.
The proceedings of the committee were confirmed.
HEALTH COMMITTEE.

The proceedings of this committee were read.
Mr. Alderman Dover moved the confirmation of them,
with the addition, that the report of the surveyor and super-
intendent of lodging-houses be printed, for the use of
members, and that its consideration be deferred to the
next council.
Mr. Earle mentioned that, in the remarks which he made
at the last committee, in reference to lodging-houses in a
certain locality, he had fallen into an error which he had
to acknowledge. The number, instead of twenty-two, ought
to have been eight. That, however, did not alter the pnn-
ciple at all. Even with eight individuals in a house it was
far too crowded.

The proceedings, with the addition of Mr. Dover's reso-
lution, were confirmed.

COURTS OF LAW AND ST. GEORGE'S HALL COMMITTEE.
The committee reported that they saw no reason to alter
their recommendation in regard to the cost of letting the
Hall, as requested by the Festival Choral Society.
Mr. Earle moved that the proceedings be confirmed.
An account of the cost of the hall up to the present was
laid before the Council. The amount was £289,995 8s 2d.
Ryley said, the committee had been directed by re-
scdutior to produce the estimate of the expected cost for
the comp:lction of the hall, and of the probable time it
would occupy, 05 well as the amount of the cost up to the

THE NORTHERN TIMES,: TIIIIRSDAY, APRIL 7 1859

present. He, therefore, molted that that resolution be re-
ferred back to the committee.
Mr. Woodruff seconded the motion, which was agreed to.
The proceedings were then confirmed.
MARKETS' COMMITTEE.
The proceedings contained the following recom-
mendations

Recommendation to accept the following tenders for re-
pairs required at St. John's market : Mr. R. Bromley, for
painting, glazing, &c., at the sum of £207. Mr. J. Brom-
ley, for slating, plastering, and whitewashing, at £465.
Resolution : "That the charge of occasional drunkenness,
against Mr. Luya, the superintendent of St. John's
market, has been proved, and that he is unfit for his present
situation ; but, considering his age and long services, and,
also, that his general conduct has in some measure been
condoned, the committee recommend him to be employed by
the council in some other situation."

Mr. Woodruff, in the absence of Mr. Johnson, the chair-
man, moved the confirmation of the proceedings. He
referred to a letter he had received from Mr. Johnson,
stating that he was prevented from attending the Council
by a trial at the assizes, and adding that he
thought the decision of the committee regarding Mr. Luya
was very unjust towards an old servant. He begged to
call attention, in the first instance, to the six resolutions
passed by the committee upon the 21st of March, on the
motion of Mr. Gladstone. Many of them he looked upon
as the harmless excuses of gentlemen running away from
their duty, and who desired to leave a record behind them
of what they had intended to do, but omitted to do at the
proper time and in the right way. (Hear, hear.) The
fourth of the resolutions, . however, was one which he
thought the council ought not to pass. It was the resolu-
tion which declared that the present defects of the manage-
ment of the markets were, in the estimation of the commit-
tee, to be in some measure attributed to want of energy and
want of determination upon the part of the council. That
appeared to him to be a direct censure upon the council.
(Hear, hear.) He had no objection to the majority of the
committee censuring themselves for neglect of duty, if they
thought fit, beyond that he demurred to being included in
any such censure;; but he entirely objected to a committee
passing a vote of censure upon the council. The principle-,
involved was, whether- the majority 'of the committee
were justified, because the council had refused to sanction
one of their .recommendations, .in passing a resolution
reflecting upon the conduct of the generafbody. (Hear,
hear.) No gentleman more than the very gentleman who
proposed the resolution would condemn such a course if
pursued by the members of any 'other committee. What
would be thought if Mr. Stewart and other members of the
finance committee, who had been frequently out-voted in
the council upon important questions, were, upon such an
occasion, to run away from the•committee an disgust, because
they could not have it all their own way in the council, and
-to leave the business, of which they were necessarily most
'cognisant, to be transacted •by others who were never and
less acquainted with it ? (Hear, hear,) He thought the
couucil, and especially the ,gentlemen who proposed those
resolutions, would declare that members who pursued such a '
course were running away from their duties in a manner
unbecoming of themselves and of the council. (Hear,
hear,) It did not follow, for instance, that he (Mr.
Woodruff) was, because the declined to sanction an extrava-
gant-and unnecessary addition to the expenditure, to be stig-
matised as unfit for his duties in a committee of which he had
been for eleven years a member. He considered that those
six resolutions were out of. order, were inconsistent with the
general character their proceedings, and that if the
council passed them they would be permitting a minority
to dictate to the majority. Hear, hear.) He condemned'
the resolution as dictated by bad taste, and assuming, on
the part of those who passed them, a superiority of know-
•ledge to that which all other members possessed. The
council would be stultifying themselves and the position
which they held, as ordering. .end directing all committees,'
if they permitted resolutions such as these to pass. He
moved that the proceedings besconfirtned, oxpressing, at the
same time, a hope that some other member would move
that the resolutions he had referred to be not confirmed.
Mr. Charles Turner moved, as an amendment, that the
six resolutions passed by the markets' committee, at -a
special meeting of the 21st of. March, be not confirmed.
Mr. Tyrer seconded the motion.
Mr. Gladstone said : Mr. Mayor, •we have just witnessed
a most extraordinary proceeding. .The chairman of the
dock board, who is, I believe, in perfect ignorance of
what is .retauired for the management of the
good.government of the markets, proposes that certain
resolutions dealing with that particular subject shall not be
confirmed upon the present occasion, .while, at the same
time, he does not even condescend to favour the council
with the smallest reason, cu• anything pretending to be a
reason, for taking upon himself. to move such an amendment
If that be the mode in which business is conducted at the
Mersey Dock. Board, I cannot congratulate that body upon
it. I certainly had thought better •of Mr. Turner, as a
man of business. I thought that, „when moving a sub-
stantial resolution, he would hive said : " I have enquire'
into this matter, I find certain circumstances to be at
variance with the facts set _forth in .the resolutions whose
confirmation I oppose ; and ,for those and various other
reasons I propose that they shall not _receive the approval
of the council." But on the contrary, he takes upon him-
self, having no acquaintance—no practical acquaintance
certainly—with the subject, to call .upon the council to
extinguish the conscientious efforts of the majority of the
members of the markets' committee, with a sort of dictum
of his own, just upon the .same - principle as we had in
November last, the aldermen thrust down our throats.
(Oh, oh, and hear, hear.)
The Mayor.: Mr. Gladstone, ,excuse me, if you please.
You are not in order.

Mr. Gladstone : I beg to sey that I ,am. illustrating my
ideas by a very fair reference.; and if you are prepared to
say that I am not logically carrying out ,the subject I have
in hand, I shall of course bow to your dictum, bnt the public
must step in and judge between us.
The Mayor : I think you should confine yourself to the
present resolution, and not go into the .question of the
election of aldermen last November. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. Gladstone :if I am to be deprived of the means
of giving practical _exemplification to my ideas, I may as
well sit down. I contend that I have an absolute right to
make such a reference, and that upon the occasion of the
last meeting of the council you permitted a member of the
council to make very irregular references without correcting
him. " Let the galled jade wince"—it touches not me. I
do not know, in the whole course of my experience, a more
difficult eharacter to deal wall —what complaint he
has embibed I cannot tell—a more obstinate and
pertinacious character to deal with than we sometimes find
in an ex-churchwarden. (" Oh, oh," " order," and
laughter.) Instead of filling himself with all the beautiful
characteristics and features of religion, he positively
becomes so inflated—his crinoline is so completely
bursting with inflation—that it is impossible to manage
him. (Hear, hear, " oh, oh," cries of " order," and
laughter.) Here you have the deputy-chairman of the
markets' committee telling us,
,that for eleven years he
has been a member of that committee. So much the
worse for him. (Laughter.) Eleven years at grossly
bad management—eleven years of the perpetuation
of filth and of dirt (oh, oh, and laughter) ; of intoxication,
it would appear, on the part of one or more of the officers ;
and, in short, of every evil which could well exist, without
one single effort, upon his part, to bring such a system to a
termination. (Hear, hear, and oh, oh.) Let this serve the
purposes of a mirror reflect the credit due to a man who
has been for eleven years now working in a cause, and
leaves it at the end of that time no more advanced—nay, not
quite so much advanced as when he first undertook a part
in it. (Hear hear.) Now, sir, the reason why these reso-
lutions were proposed may be explained in a very few words.
The council will bear in mind the substance of the recom-
mendations of the sub-committee appointed by the markets'
committee. The main gist of the recommendations was, that
a head superintendent should be appointed to exercise a
general control over all the markets. The majority of the
markets' committee were quite satisfied with the report ;
but, upon looking more closely into it, they were of
opinion that perhaps it failed in one respect
that it did not convey, with sufficient clearness
and perspicuity of details, the objects and the
intentions of those who framed the report, and to whom I
for one feel myself much indebted. The council has, in a most
extraordinary mannerton one occasion, approved of the appoint-
ment of a head superintendent, and the very next day they
rescinded it. But, believing as I did, andnow do believe, that
the recommendations of the committee will have sooner or
later to be adopted, I for one thought it was fair to those
who would succeed me, that that they should
have something to refer to, and that they should
be able to gather from our records what our views
precisely were. (Hear, hear.) No great sin in that. It
was not my little self I was thinking of—it was not Mr.
Churchwarden Dignity, dressed in his official costume.
(Oh, oh, and laughter.) I was thinking of the good of the
public. I was thinking of the good of my fellow
townsmen. I was thinking of what was essen-
tial for the corporation in reference to its revenues
derived from the markets. (Hear, hear.) I did not think
about it —it never entered my head for a moment to fancy
that I was to attach a sort of royal consideration
to church bell-ringers, church pew-openers, and church-
wardens. (Oh, oh, and order, order.) It never entered into my
head.' I could not suppose that I was committing any
indignity towards an individual who was dressed in such
high authority. (Oh, oh.) The reasons why the resolutions
were adopted are very plain. If the council think they
were wro;ig, of course they will not confirm them. When
one reflects upon it, it seems almost a pity to alter matters
as they now otand. The council will now, no doubt, refuse
to confirm these resolutions. The chairman of the
dock committee calls upon you not to confirm
them—and he knows nothing about them. When
the business of the markets' committee terminated at