Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-06-30 00:00:00

MERSEY CONSERVANCY
AND DOCKS BILL.

(ntox OUR OWN REPOERNIL)

HOUSE OF COMMONS—MONDAY, Jura 29.
The select committee re-assembled this morning, at
,welve o'clock.

Mr. Alexander, Q.C., said : The Liverpool Dock Trus-
tees have carefully considered the decision arrived at on
Friday last, both with respect to the preamble of the bill,
and with respect to the proposed alterations, and they
think it their duty to keep themselves altogether free and
unfettered, in order that they may be at liberty to pursue
such a course as they may deem most advisable in refer—
ence to the future stages of the bill in Parliament. They
deem that it would be inconsistent if they were to attend
further to discuss the clauses or details of the bill in
committee, and they have considered it their duty respect'
fully to inform you of their determination.
Sir J. Graham : The committee are obliged to you for

the intimation.
Mr. Hope Scott, Q.C,: On behalf of the Corporation of
Liverpool, I have to add nothing to what my learned
friend has stated. We have arrived at the same conclu_
lion, and the grounds for so deciding must be stated else-
where, with a view to ulterior proceedings.
Sir J. Graham : Very well. The committee will now
proceed to go through the clauses seriatim,
Mr. Alexander, Mr. Hope Scott, and the gentlemen pre-
sent on behalf of Liverpool, then rose and left the com-
mittee room in a body. In a few minutes,
Sir J. Graham directed the learned counsel for Liver-
pool to be recalled, and in the meantime he would take
the opinion of the committee upon a matter which he was
desirous of explaining.
The counsel for Liverpool were accordingly recalled,
and the committee adjourned for a few moments to a
private room. On re-entering the committee room,
Sir J. Graham said : Gentlemen, I was rather hurried on
account of the hour on Friday at which we came to our de-
cision, which it was desirable to announce to you, so that
you might have the interval of Saturday and Sunday to
consider it. In giving that decision, I made an important
omission on the part of the committee which I wish now
to add. It is with reference to clause 35. That clause, as
it now stands, is in these terms :—" The Board shall,
immediately after the commencement of the act. proceed
with the construction of the outer works at Birkenhead
referred to in the Birkenhead Docks Act of 1853, and shall
complete the same in accordance with the plans which
have been sanctioned by Parliament." If that clause be
passed in these words, it would be the adoption and con-
firmation, without modification, of Mr. Rendel's plans, and
would be inconsistent with the step which we must take
after passing the bill, which will be to proceed with the
consideration► of the new construction bill. It is the
earnest desire of the committee to give effect to the decla-
ration of 1855, that when the fusion shall be completed, the
Birkenhead construction shall be placed on the principle
of these works being completed in unison as far as pos-
sible with the system of Liverpool, and it certainly
will be our desire to consider the next bill in that spirit
and with that view. At the same time, bearing in mind
the compact with the Great Western Company, an endea-
vour must be made, not only so to modify the construction
under Mr. Rendel's plans as to ensure the completion of the
Birkenhead works in connection with the Liverpool dock
system but to give an equitable consideration to the claims
of the Birkenhead Railway Company, in order to accom-
plish which, a modification of the 35th clause would be
indispensable. I ought also to state, that I omitted, on
Friday, one small item of charge upon the Town Council,
which we think ought to be transferred, namely, the cost
of maintaining the observatory.
Mr. Johnson said he represented the London and North
Western Railway Company, who had a railway to Birk_
enhead, but who had hitherto taken no part in the bill.
He had been unable to obtain a copy of the preamble of
the bill in its amended form ; and he was desirous of ask.
ing the committee to introduce an amendment into it, if
they had not done so already.
Sir J. Graham said the committee had passed the pre-
amble, and could not introduce any amendment into it
now.

rejoiced to see three times as many as are here to-night,
but I think we are bound to believe that, in all probability,

a great many have been kept away by the storm which im-
mediately preceded the opening of this meeting, but I ask of
you, working men, will you help yourselves in this matter ?
(Hear, hear, and cheers.) The working men who have
originated it desire to help themselves, and they ask you
to come forward and join them in the effort. (Hear,
hear.) They have sought the counsel of those who,
they think, by their different character of experience
can enable them to go on with their own practical know
ledge to a successful issue. (Hear, hear.) But if the
scheme is to be succe slut, it must rank among its mem-
bers not hundreds, but thousands, of the working men.
(Cheers.) For you will understand, that one institution
of this kind will not be sufficient for the town of Liver-
pool. I hope to see that there will be one at least inevery
ward in the town. (Cheers.) Now, gentlemen, I will
ventare to prophesy—and you will say that the man who
stands upon this platform to attempt to be a prophet,
must have some gr, unds for his foretelling—that if you
really show a determination to succeed, there will be a
pressure brought to bear from the outside, if necessary, in
order that the Town-Council may render you that
assistance which they are called upon to provide.
You want in-door recreation for the winter; you want
out-door recreation for the summer. Now, the gentlemen
who have originated this undertaking contemplated it, I
believe, during the close of last year. They formed them-
selves into a company and registered the company in the
beginning of this year. Their notions were according to
what they believed to be onr means. We believe the
means which they set forth at the time inadequate ; means
to answer the demands which are made upon them. In
this I hope we shall not be disappointed. There is a pro-
posed capital of £5OO, but it is a capital capable of ex-
tension. 1 think it ought to have another cipher
I think it should be £5,000. (Loud cheers.)
Well, now, I believe that if the working men will show
that, according to the prospectus, with shares of only £1
each, all the capital is subscribed, and will then memo-
rialise the Town Council, and ask the Council to assist
them in promoting so laudable and so desirable an effort,
some consideration will be shown to them if the
Corporation happens to have a plot of laud which
would be suitable for your purpose. This remark applies
to in-door recreations. There i 3 a plot of land which
would be very valuable to you, indeed, for out-door
recreation in summer, and of which the Town Council at
this moment are making no use whatever ; it is on the
top of the reservoir up at Kensington. Now, there is a
piece of land some acres. Show yourselves worthy of
having the use of it, and I do not despair of the council
giving you every encouragement. (Cheers.) The chair-
man then took up the prospectus, which he went through
and briefly explained, after which he concluded his
address, amid loud applause, by calling on Mr. William
Rat hbone to propose the first resolution.
Mr. W. RATHBONE, in coming forward to move the first
resolution, was enthusiastically received. He said, that
as it was a meeting of work, and as there was a good deal
to be said, he would proceed to it at once. (Laughter.)
After the full remarks which had fallen from the chair-
man, very HAI° was necessary to be said on his (Mr.
Rathbone's) part. The chairman had told them what
were the necessities for recreation ; and he (Mr. Rath-
bone) was sure that he had seen, as a magistrate of the
borough, many instances of what were the bad effects of
amusements that were not in themselves innocent.
(Hear, hear.) Through the public press they had lately
an exposure of some places of amusement; and it was,
therefore, unnecessary thathe should further allude to them.
He should repeat what he had often before said, that he
was most anxious for amusement for the people—for both
rich and poor ; for he believed that, without some amuse-
ment, they would not be the happy creatures they were
intended by Providence to be. (Hear, hear.) The ex-
posures which were made of a certain class of
places of amusement in the Liveipcod Mercury, were
found fault with by some ; but he, for one, was
obliged to all newspapers which exposed the
evils of the town. A great deal of evil was rife among
them without their being aware of it, but he believed
that if those evils were brought immediately under their
notice they would not be so negligent, but would make
greater efforts than they had yet made to get rid of those
evils. He was glad at what the chairman had said about
the Town Council, but he (Mr. Rathbone) did not expect
much from them—(laughter)—unless there was a strong
pressure from without brought to bear on them. The
people, however, had the power in their own hands, and
he would tell them that as they selected so would they be
served. The elective franchise was given to them as a
trust for the benefit of all, and just in proportion to the
care and public spirit with which they exercised would
their business be done by their representatives. (Hear,
hear.) He always thought that the mistakes of the
philanthropist were much more injurious to the welfare of
society than all the hostility of those who did not care a
button about it. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) That
was a remark which he wished they would lay to
heart in the attempt they were now about
to make. They should not try to run until they had
learned to walk—(hear, hear) —but that whatever they
would do they would endeavour to be " merry and wise."
(Hear, hear.) So far as his experience went, the wisest
were always the most merry, because they were not
checked in their pleasures by that silent monitor, con-
science, they being well satisfied in their conscience that
they were not enjoying any pleasure which they ought not
to enjoy. They should, therefore, be cautious in what they
attempted, and how they attempted it When they were
a little better educated, many things which in the first in-
stance would not be desirable would become so, and they
should, therefore, at first attempt nothing that would be
likely to be objected to. He need not dwell further upon
that point, but would read the resolution which he was
about to propose for their adoption. It was as follows—
" That, considering the immense population of Liverpool,
this meeting is of opinion that there is a great want of un-
objectionable places of amusement." (Hear, hear.) He
entirely agreed in that, and he did not think
there was any one who would get up and
say he disbelieved it. (Hear, hear.) Many attempts were
made for the recreation cf those who worked hard, but he
thought they were some times in danger of making it too
instructive. (}Lear, hear.) When he went home after a
hard day's work, for the labour of the head was as hard
and more wearing than that of the hands, he found that
he wanted and would be glad of recreation, and that if
he took up a very good and very instructive book he would
be asleep before he had read a page of it. (Laughter.)
That too would be the ease with many of his hard-
working friends before him, and therefore, instruction
should not always be the great object of their amusement.
(Hear, hear.) In conclusion, Mr. Rathbone recommended
the cultivation of music and public readings, and pointed
to the success of the Saturday evening concerts in the
Concert Hall, as an encouragement to their proceeding in
the present undertaking. (Applause.)
The Rev. S. A Steinthal seconded the resolution. He
referred to the recent exposures of " Liverpool Life"
alluded to by Mr. Rathbone, and observed, that
he for one could not concur in that general
onslaught in all the public places of amuse-
ment in the town. He himself had been in some of
those places of amusement of which he had not heard a
good character, and he had been very agreeably disap-
pointed at what he found there. It was true he had not
found his model recreative establishment, but he had seen
some places of amusement in the town which did not
deserve the opprobrium thrown on them. There was,
however, one general fault running through all those
places of amusement, and that was that, even amongst the
best of them, amusement was not the sole aim. Profit was
sought for them by other means and sources of attraction. It
could not be doubted that the great majority of the places
of amusement in the town were of the most demoralizing
character ; but it was an encouragement to find that the
magistrates of the town, roused by the press, were about to
take steps to put soma of such places down, and to
uproot those baneful nests of iniquity and
sin. (Hear, hear). The magistrates, however,
could not do everything. The people themselves
had a duty to perform, and that duty, he was rejoiced to
find, they were about to discharge in organising for them-
selves a recreative institution. (Cheers.)
The resolution was unanimously adopted.
Mr. JAMES SAMUELSON moved the second resolution,
which was as follows That it is the duty and interest
of all classes to assist in taking immediate and effective
steps to provide suitable places for recreation." He con-
tended that the Recreative Company deserved every sup-
port from the merchants of the town, and observed that, in
his experience, the employer who consulted the amuse-
ment and happiness of his workpeople, was the best and
most cheaply served. (Hear, hear.)
The Rev. H. S. BROWN, on coming forward to second the
resolution, was enthusiastically applauded. He observed
that, with reference to this matter, he had already said his
say, and he had nothing now to add to it. He very highly
approved of the general principle, the advocacy of which
had called them together that evening ; but he
wished it to be distinctly nnderstoed that he knew little or
nothing about the company which it was proposed by the
prospectus to institute. He did not at all regard himself
as capable of forming an opinion worth stating with regard
to a joint-stock company or institution such as that now
proposed; but he was perfectly aware of this, that there
had been joint stock affairs and co-operative institutions
amongstd
whieh
ha the workingbeen
aboutmen
downrighta s amongste s
especially
e swindles e
i other
whey_
ac Is a sw s
eers
were,
they
ever seen in the world. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) There
was no gainsaying that ; and, therefore, he hoped that all
working men, and everybody else who had anything to do
with this company, would first see that it was & matter
based on a solid foundation. They should not allow the
word " limited" to deceive them into parting with an odd
sovereign ; but he was afraid that the word was sometimes
used as a sort of catch-penny. (Laughter.) Of course the in-
stitution which was now proposed, was one in which eae
utmost confidence might be placed, y
looked to the names of the directors and consulti-,1 com-
mittee, amongst whom were gentleme4 in whore, the people
of the town had reason to repose the moat unbounded
coViipmee. (Hear, hear.) To. oanzuelsola had said, that

the merchants of the town and the employers generally,
would be prepared to aid in the matter, but he (Mr.
Brown) thought that the working men could do it them-
selves, and that they ought to do it without help from
anybody. (Hear, hear, and applause.) He did not
see why the working men should go a begging for
their recreative institutions. He thought that if they
only set to work wisely, and economically, and resolutely,
they would very rapidly raise an institution that
would be found to promote the object they had in view.
(Hear, hear.) But there was one thing he would go for
above all things and at any cost, and hat was a park—not
one which he could jump Revise, as the cm at. Wavertree,
but a right " big one." (Hear, haar, and laughter.) He
hoped that before the land surrounding the town was built
on, such a park would be provided, and that he would sea
it filled with people rejoicing. (Hear, hear.) Out-door
recreation was what they wanted. They should have racing,
and fencing, and wrestling ; and though he did not want to
go in for a boxing match himself, yet he would not say that
there should not be some practice with the "-gloves" as
well. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) In conclusion the rev.
gentleman hoped that they would see some good result
from the movement inaugurated that night. ( Applause.)
Mr. Josare THOMAS, Chairman of the Board of Direc-
tors, proposed the third resolution :-- " That in the opinion
of this meeting, the plans of the Liverpool Recreative
Company (limited), as set forth in the prospectue now
submitted, are likely to be productive of great goo and
therefore deserving of every encouragement.'
Mr. PHILLIP' IL RATHBONE, in an eloquent speech,
which was loudly applauded, seconded the motion.
A resolution was carried by acclamation.
Mr. EDMUND BAINES moved :—" That this meeting
pledges itself to support the Liverpool Recreative Com=
pany by every means in its power."
Mr. W. H. SYERS seconded the motion, which, was car-
ried amid loud applause.
In answer to a question put by Mr. W. PHILLVES
Mr. STEINTHAL explained that arrangements would
be made by which females could participate in many of the
advantages offered by the Company.
This concluded the business of the meeting.
Mr. J. Fiacit moved a vote of thanks to the chairman,
which was carried by acclamation ; and the chairman
having briefly acknowledged the compliment, the meeting
separated shortly before eleven o'clock.

THE PEOPLES' EDUCATION.

TO TIIE EDITOR OF THE NORTHERN TIMER: •
Sir,—Your powerful and constant advocacy of
the necessity of educating all classes of our
fellow subjects, is arousing the attention of your
numerous readers, and directing public opinion to
the necessity of immediate and practical action, on
this most important of all social subjects. You will
therefore pardon me troubling you with a few re-
marks which may, I hope, be productive cf good,
if deemed worthy a place in your i,ournal. While
philantraphists of every shade of opinion in religion
and politics, are warmly alive to the neceu.sity of
giving the masses of the people a sound useful
education, little is being done, for want of agree-
ment, as to the best plan for carrying out such
object. Now I think if sensible and practical people
would (while the universal philantrophic are rack-•
ing their brains for the best mode to begin this
most laudable wprk., and yet doing nothing), bestir
themselves and help the government and local
authorities whore they have done well,. to continue
so doing, and, where for want of harmony or some
other cause, improvement may be effected, to point
out the impediment, and assist in removing it,
much of the evils now complained of would be
removed. Now, I think that although the Cor-
poration of Liverpool have deserved great praise
from the community, for their zealous attention to
the education of the people, their isolation from the
government is an evil which ought to be remedied
as soon as possible. The management of the
Corporation Schools of Liverpool, their effi,:iency,
and the benefits which they have confered on those
who make use of them, are- matters that the Cor-
poration may be justly proud of, but here, in a
great measure, their usefulness ends. One of the
evils that the country labours under, connected with
education, is the want of competent and well qual-
ified teachers ; such can only be produced in well-
conducted and amply supported public • schools,
where the attendance of the pupils is sufficiently
large to train the thinking teacher's mind to a
knowledge of the requirements necessary to im-
part education to numbers; each differing in capa-
city to receive instruction; and not as if the minds
of all the pupils were one, and where the means
are sufficient to employ many young teachers who
after• a practical training, could be safely entrusted
with the management of other schools. Now,
where in England are there schools so well adapted
for such purposes as the Liverpool Carparation
Schools? well managed, numerously attended,
amply supported, and yet, because unconnected
with Government, the blessings that other Com-
munities would derive from teachers trained
in these schools, and the benefits the young
teachers would themselves derive from being
eligible for appointments to other schools are all
lost. Now, I would ask you, sir, as the advocate
of the people's education. to point out to the Cor-
poration of Liverpool the evil of remaining any
longer working, no matter how efficiently, seperate
from Government. Let them set an er..trniole to
the country that it was only necessary tint such
connection was proved useful to be adopted, and
that, while philanthropists are devising systems
and doing nothing, the practical men of Liverpool
are preparing the rising generation to enjoy the
blessing of our free institutions as enlightened
subjects. Apologizing for occupying your valuable
ime,—l am, sir, yours, &c. J. 0. N.

Tun WEATHER'—Yesterday was chequered by sun-
shine and tears—intense beat, and terrific showers, with
lightning and thunder at intervals. The rain was exces-
sively heavy, but we believe it was not general. The even-
ing was fine, and sultry. The atmosphere seems charged
with electricity.
Quick PASSAGE.—The fine ship Scottish Chief, belonz-
ing to Messrs. Fernie Brothers, arrived at Bombay on the
23rd cf May—eighty-six days from Liverpool.
In re ISHERWOOD.—In this, the details of which ap-
peared three or four times in our police reports lately, and
must be fresh in the reders recollection, erk prisoner was
brought ap yesterday, at the Police-court, and discharged,
as his worship stated that,no matter how a case of trespass
might be sustained, a case of felony could not be found by
a jury against the prisoner.
WALLASEY INDEPESDENT FRIENDLY SOClETY.—Yester-
day was quite a gala day at the village of Wallasey, being
the anniversary of the above society. The body assanbled
in the morning, and heard a sermon in Egremoat church,
after which they proceeded to the club-room, Wallasey,
where there was an elegant repast laid out for the com-
pany, which was numerously and respectably attended by
the members. The dinner consisted of everything in
season; and when the viands were discussed, the usual
loyal toasts were duly honoured, after which a number of
toasts were proposed in eloquent terms, and responded to
in like manner, and the evening was spent very pleasantly,
and with satisfaction to all. In the village there were al:
sorts of amusements during the day and evening.

Two DRATHS BY DRC)WNING, NEAR YoRK.—On Friday
afternoon, a boy named Darling, who had been w.ssting
in a Hayfield about a mile from York, went to the river
Ouse, to procure a ':rink, when he fell i,lto the water, and
was drowned. His body was not recovered until late at
night.—Another youth was bathing in a brick-pond the
same day, rather more than a mile from York, and his life
was also sacrificed.

DOUBLE AN) FATAL RAILWAY ACCID7NT.—On Saturday
morning, as the newspaper train was approaching Leicester.
the engine-driver, named Dangles, came in contact wi tl
a bridge at Wigsten, abut three miles fr,,in here, and h(
was thrown off the tender, and one of his 4,v3 was cu
completely off, and the other was muoh He wt
placed upon the break and conveyed t-,`,
Leicester. 0
arriving thtre, at some changing of thP riots, the bred
turned over, and the poor fAlwri's )7,ead was then hurt. H
?..as conveyed t 3 the Leicester I
• --rjtirmary on a s!reteher, bu
shortly after. died
-

WHY r'°Es EN41"1"3 'STOP THE WA Y ?—The Sheffie
Affairs Committee 114-.
Iriiac.mherleity,lawsklg e written to some members of Pa
t:ney could infbrm them why Englat
stops the way the matter of a ship communication b
tween the Mivaiterranean and the Red Sea. Lord God
I can only say that as I am in no degr
in the s''crets of the Government, it is not possible for n
to
irm you what reasons they may have for the cony
wu..eh they have pursued in reference to the ship can
''.cross the Isthmus of Suez. No papers upon the subje
have been laid before Parliament of late years." 111
Hadfield wrote :—" I do not know the reason why Gre
Britain stops the way; but I understand there is a don
as to the practicability of the proposed Suez Canal, ai
consequently people do not like to part with the necessa
amount lof funds. The usefulness of the measure, if
were practicable, and means could be provided. Would
beyond all doubt." ,