Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1859-01-17 00:00:00

not be more likely to meet their views by openly and
straightforwardly asking their permission to borrow
snms of money to carry oat that which the-Board ofEr=
itself recommends in the report I have just read to• you?
Mr. Busbell has told us that we are• in honour botradito
carry out the works. we are engaged in at Birkenhead, and.
Ido most fully admit the obligation to which he has
alluded, but when the obligation) was-undertaken by this
board, there was also anhonourable understanding, which,
appeared also to rest upon the mind of every member-
of the board, that as soon as we had disposed of that
bill, and so soon as we had fairly-put in hand the Bir-
kenhead docks, that we should go to Parliament for such
a sum of money as we considered the necessities of the
Liverpool side of the river required (hear, hear, from
Mr. Anderson), I consider that, without the slightest
imputation resting on any member of this board, we can
with clean hands go to Parliament and in the most per-
_

feet good faith ask permission to borrow £300,000: I
now come, sir, to the stalking-house which has been so
often brought before us—l mean our finances. Really,
the sum we require is so small that I cannot for a
moment think that it has any bearin,, upon our finances
to make us hesitate in the course we think right to pursue.
I am one of those who have the greatest confidence in the
elasticity and the increase of the trade of this port ; and
that whatever money may be required to be spent upon
the facilities of the port, our income will at all times be
equal to our expenditure. NoW, what has been the
result for the last twelve months ? While we have
passed through one of the severest years of commercial
distress that I suppose Liverpool, or the kingdom, has
ever experienced, while we have had an outcry from
every part of. the. world of diminished trade—while we
see by the annual returns of the various dock companies
in London that the trade there was falling off very much,
and the dividends. have consequently been reduced;
when we seo all these things and look at Liverpool, one
is almost surprised. What has been the result at Liver-
pool? Notwithstanding that panic through which we
have passed, I am happy to state that the income from
dock dues in 1858, from the Ist 'of January to the 31st
December, exceed that of 1857, th

neatest year we

had. ever known, by £571. Now, with such a fad' as this
before you, do you think that going to borrow £300,000
would effect the finances of this trust ? I ask you if
under such frightful 'adversity we had increased our re-
sources, what are we likely to do- under that prosperity
which I believe is very close at hand? I think the figures
that I have just quoted should we well known by the
public, as other figures affecting the interests of this estate
have been again and again dragged across the public view.
The dock dues in 1857 amounted to £373,987 9s 2d,

and in 1858 they amounted to £37,1,558 6s Id. And
now,- sir, this is a statement that I give with great

it with g

tat pleasuie and I think
it cannot be made known too publicly. Ido not think
I need enter more fully into the general question. I
honestly and conscientionslv believe that it is our duty

to offer the facilities to the trade of the port which
have enumerated ; I believe it is a more manly and
straightforward course to execute those works under the
sanction of parliament than by the appropriation of
surplus revenue; and therefore I do not fear any oppo-
sition that may be raised against us from whatever
quarter it may come... That opposition can only arise

from one source, and that is, from antagonism -to the
interests of Liverpool (hear, hear) ; and if, unhappily,
we should be defeated, then, sir, the responsibility will
test upon the proper shoulders, and not on the shoulders
of this board. But Mr. Smith and other gentlemen have
alluded to the impropriety of going to Pariament at all.
Now, sir, I do believe it will be absolutely necessary
for us to go to Parliament. I believe there are reasons
for introducing a bill into the House of Commons in the

coming session—a bill in connection with dock flues ; and
therefore I conceive—l believe lam right upon that
point; I believe it is pretty well known by members
here, that there is a positive necessity to go to Parlia-
ment for other purposes —I conceive, therefore, that the
argument in favour of not going to Parliament at all is a
gross error. I shall, sir, very gladly support the motion
that Mr. Rankin has proposed.
Mr. Smith explained that he did not intend to suggest
that the nominee members would make representations
to the Government, for those gentlemen assured the

board that they were not in communication with the
Government. lie meant that the Government would

notice the fact that the four nominee members coincided

in their votes on this question.
Mr. Graves explained that what he waned to convey
was that the Government would be apt to view the
matter through the opinions of their representatives at
that board.

➢ir. Bushell complained that he had been misrepre-
sented by Mr. Graves. lie did not 6bject to going to
parliament at all ; but he objected to going there this
year.

➢ir. Forwood would vote very cordially in support of
Mr. Rankiu's motion, and he did so on the ground not,

as had been hinted indirectly by Mr. Bushell, that he was
thereby going to support works of extraordinary magni-
tude, or that by such a vote the board would declare
that they did not intend to follow up that spirit of
economy which now existed in their councils, but because
in all human probability, judging from the experience
they had hitherto had of the extension of the port, they
must see that the port was not in a stationary position,
but in- a progressive state of development. He thought
that, by the judicious expenditure of money to meet the

growing requirements of trade, the board would not
diminish the security of Via bond-holders, but would rather
tend to enlarge it.
Mr. Farnworth said there was one matter which had
not been brought before them. Mr. Smith had stated
distinctly that £160,000 would be sufficient to grant
every 'required accommodation for the timber trade at
the north end of Liverpool. He had very properly
stated that the timber trade, almost in a body, had
made arrangements to remove north on or about the Ist
of Aril next, and that the timber trade required some
provision for the water carriers, and other considerations
of that sort. Now, he meant to say that the timber
trade were not under that impression. The timber
trade had never contemplated going to the Canada
Dock, excepting under the impression that the Mersey
Board. would, with all possible speed, give every requi-
site accommodation for the trade there.. If the £160,000
proposed by Mr. Smith-,that was for the making of a

basin to tlie eastward. of the two canals —if that" were
laid before the timber trade, and they were asked if it
were sufficient for their accommodation, they would be
unanimous in saying it would not be so, But if the
board thought that these two canals and the basin
would be sufficient, they would have the. timber trade
coming year by year continually before the board
to give them the same trouble which they had givenin
years gone by. Why not settle the timber trade once
for ever ? Give them, that accommodation which
£300,000 would enable them to give, and then
it would be done.. He thought the timber trade
were almost unanimous in removing from the Brunswick
Dock, thereby giving up a valuable property there which
this board might. appropriate as they thought desirable.
_ _

He agreed with MrSniith, if the bOard we're in posses-
sion of a surplus revenue, and had no other means of
spending it except at the north end of the• town, it might
not be necessary to go to Parliament. But he believed if
the money were expended by the Mersey Board without
goinc, to Parliament, there were those in that room; and
out of it, who might say the board had no right to do so.
He wished, therefore, to throw the responsibility on
Parliament, and he would support Mr. Rankin's motion.

The Chairman said, there were one. or two statements
inado by Mr. Laird which • he thoaght would convey so
erroneous an impression upon tho minds of the public
that they ought uot to be allowed to. go uncontradicted.
Mr. Laird, had stated to his (the chairman's) very great
surprise that the works at Birkenhead were not proceed-
ing as they ought to be. If he had. said they were not
proceeding so fast. as they could wish them to do, that
would be another thing' but, what he stated implied that
the committee of works had not done everything they pos-
sibly could de, in order to further the prosecution of
those arks. He (the chairman) would appeal to the
works committee generally, and to the board, whether
they had not worked early and late, and done everything
they:could do, to further the prosecution of the works
on the other side of the water, and whether any delay
had arisen from any want of exertion on the part of any
member of the board, or the members collectively, Mr.
Laird had said that the negotiations for the laud had
not proceeded as fast as possible. These negotiations
involved sums.of enormous magnitude ; and, every gen-
tleman who had to deal with negotiations of such an.
intricate character must be aware, with duo regard to the
' interests of the board, the ratepayers, and the public,
they could not be plashed forward beyond. a certain speed.
—especially when the parties on the other side, perhaps
naturally enough, would take such measures as they
thought fit to. produce the largest amount of profit or
remuneration for themselves. Bat, taking the beat
advice that could be taken, he would undertake. to say
they had proceeded. as fast as they possibly could, and
he could tearlessly appeal to the solicitor respecting the
negotiations for land, and to the engineer with reference
to the work, whether everything had nut been donethat
possibly could he done in the matter. A.% regarded the
works at Birkenhead, Mr. Hartley made a
latter part of December to the solicitor; inpart in the
which he
said :-
44 The progress we have made with the Birkenhead
Docks is as follows have built about one-third of
the wall on the north side of the
_great float : we have
excaTated about 50,000 cubic
yards in the formation of
the, 'Large low-water basin ; we have built about one-half
' of the north wall of the enclosure of the Woodside basin '
1 we have put in the foundations of about 100 feet of the

river wall of the south reserve—a most difficult work
owing to the depth and nature of the quicksand; and we
Vittrthe-works at the large new lock to
ed Aforpeth Dock ; we have also entered
into a contract witty M. William M'Cormack, for the

are p?ograsin

excavation of the whole of the earthwork necessary for
the completion of the works, as sanctioned by Parlia-
ment, involving the payment of about £140,000 ; we
have spent this year, upon and on account of these works,
£115,000; the number of men now employed in the
formation of the Birkenhead Docks is about 1,860, but
they are being added to constantly, as we are able to get
to work at different points. Our weekly expenditure has
averaged about £1,900, but this is now also being
increased weekly, as we transfer the workmen from this
side, and are able to employ them at Birkenhead."
Ire made these remarks because he did think it was
important to the character of the board that the public
should know that everything they had undertaken to do
they were using every exertion to carry out. (Hear )
Mr. Laird said, as be had been alluded to, perhaps he
might be allowed an explanation. lie said before, and
he said again, that there had been delay in giving those
notices ; and he Would say again, unless the land was
got possession of, Mr. Hartley could not complete those
works in the time required by the act. He never blamed
Mr. Hartley ; he believed that he was getting on as fast as
he could ; but until that land was got the works could not
proceed properly. He believed notices were given ; those
notices were since withdrawn ; and other notices were
given. There had been some delay of that kind. The
purport of his observations was this, that till the land
was got possession of, they could not get on with the
works as they should do.

The Chair-man said it was quite true that, until the
land was got possession of, Mr. Hartley could not go
forward with his work as fast as he otherwise could do.
But he said again, that on the part of the solicitor, and
on the part of everybody, there had been the most
anxious desire to get possession of that land at the earliest
possible period; and that the delay which had taken
place did not arise from any default or negligence on the
part of any of the officers or of any member of the board
He thought that ought to go forward to the public.
(Hear, hear.) There would be delays on this account, but.
all was being done under the best advice, and as fast as
possible. Mr. Bold had said that the financial position
of the board was a reason, in his mind, ror not going to
parliament; and Mr. Bushell had said that the smallness
of the sum was the reason, in his mind, for not going to
parliament—that the sum was so paltry it could not
have any effect upon the finance of the board. He
agreed with Mr. Bushell—it could not have any effect
upon the finances of the board; but that disposed of
Mr. Bold's opinion. It was quite true that distrust
had been thrown upon the financial position of the
board ; but men of business must know that the distrust
did not arise from the borrowing of £300,000 for the
purpose of the economical working of the docks on this
side of the water, They knew what it arose from ; and
he thought in a great measure, or perhaps altogether,
the distrust was undeserved. It arose from th large
expenditure which Parliament had obliged them to go
into within the next four or five years on the Birken-
head side, and upon the ultimate benefit of which there
was great difference of opinion. Whether it turned out
well or ill, however, there was no reason for distrust in

the financial positio-n of the board; and without giving
an opinion whether it would be profitable or not, there
was no doubt that it would give great facilities and great
conveniences to the trade of the port, and that it would
be useful in a greater or less degree. But for any
gentleman to think that going to parliament for £300,004
to add increased facilities to the enormous works on this
side, while they were spending £2,000,000 on the othar
side—that this would embarrass their financial position
was an argument he could not attach much weight to.
Mr. Bushell : You compel me to make explanations_
Nobody ever supposed that £300,000 could possibly make
a difference.
The Chairman : I think—

Mr. Bushell: I must have justice. I must explain ;
and I throw myself on the good feeling of the board. I
did not allude, which you now compel me to do, to the
sums of money tendered to the board for the purpose of
carrying on our works. They have been utterly inade-
quate : you are aware of that.' By agitating again—by
raising up again a new. storm in Parliament—you do
again give rise to that distrust which has prevented us
hitherto obtaining those resources we required.
The Chairman : But I must give an expression of
opinion contrary to Mr. Bushell's. I think the amount
of money offered is quite sufficient for our purpose.
Mr. Bushell: If you persist in that I shall move for
a return

The Chairman said, he gave it as his opinion that it
had been sufficient, and he thought if gentlemen would
give the board fair play, it was his opinion that they
should receive quite sufficient money for their purpose.
The financial position of the board was perfectly sound ;
no fear ought to exist in the minds of the community with
reference to the financial position of the board, and na
such feeling would exist if it were not aroused from
misconception of the views of the members of the board.
Mr. Smith : We are opening a question.
The Chairman : I think you have no right to interrupt
me._ I am giving my own, opinion.

Mr. Smith : rou are
board.

•• ....
giving it as the opinion of the

The Chairman did not think he should be interrupted.
He had merely wished to give his opinion upon this par—
ticular subject. He certainly thought that the sum of
£300,000 could be most advantageously applied on this
side of the water, and that it would economise and give
great facility to the working of many of the different
trades of the port. The amount .was so..reaseuable, an.d..
the advantage to be derived from it so great, that he could
not conceive there could be any strong opposition to it..
Mr. Rankin's motion was then put to the vote, mut
carried by 15 against 6.
The following was the voting:—For the motion : Messrs..
Anderson, Boult, Farnworth, Forw.ood, Graves, Ilubback,..
Langton, Lockett, Mondel, Moss, Rankin, Seger, Shand,
Tobin, and the Chairman. Against it : Messrs. Arnold;
Bold, Bushell, Evans, Laird, and Smith.
The board then adjourned.

BURNS' CENTENARY

TO THE EDITOR OF THE NORTHERN TIMES

Sir,—My name has been published on the com—
mittee of the Burns' festival without my authority
asked or obtained ; and, as I disapprove of the
object, I wish to protest against an unwarrantable
use of my name. —Your'S faithfully,
Jan. 15, 1859. THOS. 7.‘iATHESON.

THE WORSHIPFUL THE MAYOR-
HENGLER'S CIRQUE.

TO THE EDITOR: OF THE NORTHERN TIMES,

Sir,—lt will, no doubt, be in your recollection.
and that of most of your readers, that in the
month of December last, the worthy Chief Mam'is-
trate, William Preston, Esq., kindly intimated his
intention of honouring my establishment with his
presence, but from,ufforseen family afflictions, he
was prevented from being present on the night of
his " bespeak," and, in your columns of the 11th
December, there appeared a copy of a letter that
had been Sent to. me by His Worship, explanatory
of his absence,. I am now, sir, in a position to•
inform yon and the public of Liverpool, that the
invalid beiuF sufficiently convalescent; His Worship,
has again, in the most corteous and flattering
manner, signified his intention of patronising my
Cirque, the occasion being fixed for the evening
representation of Friday the 4th. February next
ensuing. I feel, sir, the compliment thus paid me.
7 oanscizihtaonkgiinv:e.
in the very highest sense, and I tel it my duty to,
you and the nobility, gentry, and public, who s
and lenient anite t views on. the
numerously attended on the lash 0
them
mry
forp.o btliheeiitry favourablet the foregoing:
occasion of the disappointment,
_as
well as to. give
each an opportunity
of again lweleoming, in public.
our. worthy and respected
ref
magistrate, .—With
thanks, believe me yours truly,

Cirque Variete. Jan. 15, 18598 LES HIiNGLER.CiTA.

DICItENS'S CHRISTMAS C.knoL.—An anecdote about a
reading of the Carol, which has come to our knowledge
is too good to be withheld. The work named was read
in a small circle in a western port, and. at its close the
effect upon one of its hearers -a miserly, covetous, rich
old gentleman was such, that he at once gave 42,000 to
be divided between three useful benevolent institutions
belonging to the town.—Hastings Nervg.

"Ixstatungrios " is 310.NACO !—A letter from
Menton (Monaca), of the Bth, says : - "We have had a
formidable insurrection here! Some persons having got
up a petition toth,o government, praying that wine might
be taxed, though it was the taxation of wine which caused
the population some years ago to separate from their law—
fule prince, about 500 persons armed with spades,
axes clubs, and other weapons, went to the T
aneolamorously demanded that no suchie
didt4
ixne
imawl
aodontubelekdiwnarlebrwee
imposed. The syndic protested thatE
anything of the petition referred to.
syndic
to'utsit.
not satisfied, and compelled the
tion that no wine tax
epstoir beAirtop;trils,wthit,e7duist
vtihele_scez;
beat of tholoAcroign