Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1859-09-07 00:00:00

Mr../ CROSTIM:AITE said he was'at the court op the day

prtsen

in question, -but he was called away to. his office. - He
had no notice that any objection of the kind was tcr be
made by Mr. Bremner, or he should have been present.
He had to say that, during the twenty years he had held
the offiee of magistrate, he had done more business than
any other -magistrate on the bench. When Mr.-Mans,
field was aosent, lie was usually called upon to
preside is his place, as 'there were none of
the others in town so early as ten o'clock. As
regarded. his residence, if he had chosen to
bung- his bed to his, office, and sleep there one or two
nights, that was all that was necessary. The questior,
however, had been mooted, and he would tell them that
he, who had sat on the bench for twenty, years,
would never submit to men who had only held their
positions for a few years. He would tell th.eni. that he
would not submit to the mayor, . the corporation, the
town-clerk, nor the,magistrates of Liverpool; and, until
it could be shown that some cause justified her Majesty,
in the discharge of his duty,. to put . him off the bench,
he would hold his seat. was a question for:her to
deal with, and the magistrates had_noyoWer. He had to
tell them distinctly that theY Were assuming an 'authority
which did not belong to them. -He was told that Mr.
Mansfield had been asked, and he was Of,.opinion that
Mcoisfield was right when he stated that his qualifi-•
cation could riot be -questOned..
Mr. GLADSTONE said he did not know anything about
the matter, further than that he thought it was the inten
tion of the magistrate to bringit before the meeting. He
did not believe that it had any reference to. Mr. CroS-
thwaite in particular, who was to be found at all hours.
But there was • such a thing as an. act .of parlia-
ment. They had no desire to interfere with
Mr. 'Crosthwaite at -all ;: but they wanted to
protect themselves as a body, and.he considered, that it
was within their province, as a body. of magistrates, to
see that they conformed to what the act of parliament
directed. He was sure no ..entleman had the slightest
feelinm of disrepect towards Crosthwaite, but they
did feel that it was not a desirable state of things
,•to
exist. • _ _ .

Mr. CROSTHWAITE said that he had an office in,
Liverpool, where he might be seen at all hours of the
day, and where any necessary explanation on this matter
might have been made, All communications in relation
to his office as a magistrate were made to him at. his
office in Liverpool. They never made any communica-
tions at all to him at Southport, but uniformly at his
office in town. ,
Mr. Bovrom said that, as the oldestmagistrate present,
I and perhaps the oldest magistrate on the bench, he
could bear his testimony to the great weight of duty
which had been performed by Mr. Crosthwaite and Mr.
Dixon. Indeed, it was far more than their share, and
no one would be more sorry than himself—and he
might add the magistrates generally—if it should turn
out that the act of parliament was so worded as to
exclude thosngentlemen from the office of magistrates.
Mr. DIXON would not enter into the discussion of this
question at all, but he thought it was very desirable
that it should be settled. . Two or three. months ago an
objection was raised to Mr. Cro3thwaite sitting.
Mr. CROSTHWAITE.---I never beard it.
Mr. Dixos.—Well, if it applied to Mr. Crosthwaite,
it also applied ;to him (Mr. Dixon.) On that occasion
he went to Mr. Mansfield ; and he stated to him that,
' under the clause of the act of parliament, they had both
a right to sit. But he now had a strong wish that the
question should be set at rest. If he was not to sit
upon the bench in consequence of this objection, all he
desired was, that he should be officially informed of it.
He had ever been ready to perform the duties of his
office, but he must confess that, in many . instances, it
had been at great personal inconvenience to himself.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. Aixix said there were the names of gentlemen
on the list of, magistrates • and from amongst 'that list,
the names of certain gentlemen were from time to time
put down. as acting magistrates ; and it now became a
question whether, according to the wording of the act,
of parliament, some of those gentlemen had any right
to act at all. Now, as an objection had been urged
against two gentlemen so situated, it certainly •was
highly desirable that the matter should be finallrsettled.
He would like to ask Mr. Garnett whether, in event
of Mr. Crosthwaite and Mr. Dixon acting, the penalty
would be incurred so long as this clause existed; because
it became a question amongst the magistrates themselves
• whether, in marking off the list, from the entire body of
magistrates, the names of acting magistrates, they were
dealing in accordance with the act of parliament in in-
serting the names of these two gentlemen; and whether
or not the penalty might be enforced am'ainst them.
Mr. S. Hoizin was sorry that Mr. Crosthwaite had
spoken so warmly on the subject, for all the magistrates
admitted that he had taken upon himself more than his
. share of magisterial duties, for which both the rest of
the bench and the public were indebted to him ; but as
the chairman of the licensing magistrates on the late
occasion, lie (Mr. Holme) might say that the magis-
trates had considered that it became a very serious ques-
tion when a solicitor rose in court, and took an objec-
tion to the voting of two of the magistratds on the
grounds which he stated. For himself he should be
glad if a case could be stated for .the 'opinion of counsel
on the subject, or for the opinion of some other autho-
rities, because a gentleman walked up to his house :he
otherday,, and served a notice upon him, stating that there
would be an appeal at Kirkdale against the decision •of
the bench in the case on question. He confessed he had not

closely read the notice; but he thought the grounds of
appeal were stated to be that two gentlemen having voted
who were not qualified as magistrates under the clause
of the act of parliament, the decision of the bench would
be impugned.. Under these circumstances, he would sug-
gest that a case should be submitted.

Mr. CitonnwArrE said it was not in the province of
the bench to deal with the case at all: He denied the
let ofany party but her Majesty to say whether he
t all as a magistrate. There were
00l in th(

several.' otner magistrates in
position as himself as regarded residence
The CIIA IRMAN said it appeared to him that the
whether Mr. Crostliwaite's office
clause in the act of

was told, although he wa,s .not

he time, :that Mr. Bremner had stated that
voted against the gTantilig of the license in question.
riIO:CHAIRMAN.—How did he know? But so far as

the settlement Vie disputed point was .concerned, it
*as of no consequence whether the vote was for or

Mr. CASTELLAIN.—It was no matter how he voted.
Mr.. J. H. Tun= could not imagine in what man-
Breniner. had been informed how Mr. Crosth-
Dixon voted, • unless it was by some
r means: He presumed that no one knew. how he
ler) voted.

Ind Jll

\fr. Ducoll thought it was-desirable that the impres-
doors; by what had been stated,

it out of

ought to be remoi•ed. It was not necessary for him to
state how 14e voted.; but so far, he night say, as
regarded himself, that the statement made by Mr.
Bremner was quite incorrect--quite incorrect.

. TURNER observed that it was worthy of notice
Mr. Bremner only: urged..his objection in this

particular. case,

Mr. R.ITHBONE said there .were gentlemen on the
bench residing at a greater distance from town than
Mr:.Crostliwaite and Mr. Dixon.

'Mr. AI IN said that, as to taking,counsel's opinion,
another question arose. ,It was out- of their power, as
magistrates, to spend a penny in doing . so. It was
necessary,for them to go to the Town Gouucil ; and, for
himself, he would not go with hat in hand to ask the
:I'owu Council for the money On a former occasion,
when incurring a certain expense on magisterial.business,
which legitimately ought
.to, have been paid by the
Town Council, he paid it himself rather than ask the
council for it.

Mr. GLADSTONE suggested that as the council would
be making an application in the next session of parlia-
ment, they should be asked to have included in their act
a clause providing for this difficulty.
Mr. lioLatE understood that Mr. Mansfield had given
an opinion as to the qualification of Mr. Crosthwaite
and Mr. Dixon. _ _

- Mr. DIXON Said that *hen Mr. Mansfield gave his
opinion, he wits aware that notes on magisterial business
had been sent to his office, and not to his residence.
Mv. limmE would like to know the opinion of Mr.
Qrarnett on tho subject.
Mr. GAnNErr replied that he did not think the word=
ing of the act of parliament applied to the residence of
the magistrates, and he agreed with Mr. Mansfield that
Mr. Crosthwaitc and Mr. Dixon were both qualified to
vote. . .

Ur. JEFFERA: was anxious that the magistrate's in all
their proceedings should, conform to .the' law, and he
d that the Town Council shOUld be asked to
steps for obtaining the legal opinion as to the
reading of thiS clause of the act of parliament.
Mr.DIXON said he very much regretted' that Mr.
Mansfield was not present, because he 'believed that the
expression of hiS opinion 'on the 'matter would have
satisfied the bench.

suggest
tak

•
Mr. HOLME -thought 'it was only fair and right
to those gentlemen themselves, as well as to the
bench, , that this question should be settled: It was
putting, the two gentlemen into a most unuleasant
position for the matter' to remain as it was. He
would, therefore, move that the matter be sub-
mitted to the Town Council for their consideration,
and that they be requested to take the necessary steps
for veer tiintng the meaning of the clause in the act of
parli'
Mr. J EFFERY said it might be referred to the Home-
office ; but the question was, would the Home-office
give an opinion on r 11 act of parliament ?
Mr. HoLmE said he had known answers to similar
questions sent to the Home-office.
Mr. GLADSTONE having

ieconded. Mr. Holme's

matior,
The CHAIRMAN put it to the meeting, when it was
carried unanimously-.
INTER -NATIONAL LAWS ON OFFENCES COMMITTED ON

THE HIGH SEAS,

Mr. AIKIN next brouoht forward the subject of the
,
existing international" laws, as to offences committed on
the high seas; and after referring to the several cases
of cruelty on board ships, he moved a resolntion to the
effect that a representation be made to the Home-office
that, in the opinion Of this bench, instead of asking for
a general international law, it,would be better to em-
power the consuls iu the different countries to institute
proceedings in cases of cruelty.. ' •
The motion having been secOnded,
Mr. THEODORE RITIIBONE expressed his opinion that,
in all cases where a crime Was committed on board'a
vessel, it was advisable to give power to the gOveniment
at the port at which such vessel might arrive, to deal at

once with the case

--„„
Mr. HOLME asked Mr. Rathbone if, hi case of a
vessel arriving at Naples,with a person on board against
whom there was a charge of murder, he would give the
power of dealing with the case to the Neapolitan.
government. •

.ti,A.THEONE.—Yes.
Mr. IIOL3IE.—I shoald hesitate to give such a power
to' the Kill of ,Naples.
'Ths.motion was adopted, and the meeting terminated.

LIVERPOOL SELECT VESTRY

At the fortnightly meeting of this body, held yester-
day, .the Rev. Rector
.Campbell presided._ The other
members present werc—A.lessrs. Owen, Scott,WilliaMs -
Critchley, Whitt}, Bairstow, Syred, Edward Byford,
Hand, A. Byford, and Archer.

WOUKTIOLIS

COMMITTEE

Mr. OWEN said, in reference to the proceedings.of
this committee, that_ the.cost of the alterations in the
reception-wards-had fallen below, instead of exceeding,
the estimate of the surveyor, which was £1,500, and
the actual cost was something under £1,200..

The proceedings were confirmed.
The proceedings of the Industrial Schools' Committee

were read and co-armed

The proceedings of the Finance Committee were
also read. They contained recommendations to appoint
Mr. Williams as assistant overseer, and Mr. Nairn as

-0
On the motion of Mr. Owen, the proceedings were

confirrac d.
Mr. WurrTY reported that the Contract Committee
hadheld two or three sitting for the purpose of revising
samples, and making- any alteration necessary in the
form of the contract'. •It would be seen,• he said, that
this was a very important matter, inasmuch as it
involved the supply of provisions to such a large insti-
tution as that. Tue committee recommended that the
large contracts should be taken for three'inonths, • as
•betore,.instead of six months. Some members of the
committee, and some members of the board, would pro-
bably be of opinion that this would entail trouble to the

contractors, without an equivalent service to the parish.
But, after very careful consideration, the
.committee
were of opinion that these large contracts, aCcessible
only by large capital, ought to be thrown open to the
yoefit one article
a
public, and that they should be for three months instead
olfosniex
the i
for
mirit
parish
appeared
itnheda t
..il3
othoeosruzp4po.e thought
l
this was the best and most palpable reason for having
a oatmeal, beef,
groceiies.
these articles supplied in three months' contracts, as be-
mforuet.ton,Twheooicillet'anaartliicilleesn
drapery,
were
n 4 wheat,
This concluded the business.