Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-08-06 00:00:00

but by personal feeling. (Cries of " No, no.") He was
glad that there was such a disclaimer, and he retracted the
words. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HODSON : I shall vote for Mr. Turner on Saturday.
Mr. C. TURNER urged that, the discussion having now
arisen, the adjournment could be of no practical use, but
would he looked upon by the town and the country at large
as a slur on the character of the gentlemen who were put
in nomination. (Cries of "No, no," and hear, hear.)
Mr. Hoaxer disclaimed any animosity in the matter
He had always entertained for Mr. Turner the greatest
friendship, and held that no man was better fitted to be a
member of the Dock Committee.
• Mr. STRAINS also disclaimed any personal hostility to
Mr. Turner. He supported the motion of adjournment
because he was informed by Mr. Alderman Holme that it
was essential to the interests of the ratepayers that the
Council should adjourn.
Mr. Twills : This is the telegraph from London :
" The deputation think it of the utmost importance that
there should be no debate in the Council on the proceed-
ings in London, and after the Dock Committee's proceedings
adjourn the Council till Saturday next." A subsequent
telegraph was received, stating that they were of opinion
there should be no Council; but I believe myself, after
what has taken place. gre4ter evil will arise from adjourn-
ment than from proceeding.
Mr. Alderman DOVER. said that a discussion bad now
arisen, in which every person interested in fixed property
in the town should take part. They were advised from
head-quarters, and that advice should be taken. (Hear.)
Mr. Tobin had cleverly given a turn to the communication,
from London. It said nothing, certainly, about the elec-
tion of members, but it advised that they should not go
beyond the proceedings of the Dock C ommittee— (hear,
hear)—and that advice, which was doubtless based on
prudence, should be adopted. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. Alderman GARDNER urged the same view. It was

the duty cf the Dock Committee, no doubt, to stand up
for their own, but it was no less the duty of the Council to
protect themselves ( Hear, hear.) He hoped they would
do that, and adopt the advice of their deputation in
London (Hear, hear.)
Mr. A C. STEWART said Mr. Alderman Holme came

down to the Conned that day for the express purpose of
preventing the meeting from ping on. He now held in
his hand a telegraphic message, of the meaning of which
there could be no doubt. It said, "It is very important
that there should be no Conned to-dly."
Mr. TURNER: From whom is that message ?
Mr. SrEWART : From a member of the deputation.
Mr. TURNER : That message is from Mr. Jeffery, gentle-
men.
FTEWART : Mr. Turner is old enough to know how
to behave him.ielf. Mr. Stewart went on to say it w.s a
well-known fact that the membfra of the Council and the
Dock Committee had not been drawinz together, and that
if these gentlemen were now re-elected, it might not
answer the purposes of the Council.
The DEPUTY-MAYOR aske I from whom the message came
to which Mc S:ea art alluded.
Mr. Honsore: That is not the question. I not think
that h s anything to do with tn.e question. Teere is a
great deal of needless pertonality here.
Mr. STEWART : I have stated the facts of the case. The
name of the writer can be had by any gentleman in the
room.
_ Mr. TURNER : Oh, the name of the writer is Mr.

Jeffery.
Mr. STEWART objected to their sending Mr Turner back,
as elected, t) the Dock Cimnaittee, until they were qii:te
sure that the members of that committee and of the
Council wens working harmoniously tcgether in London.
They ought not to stultify themselves, and vote away the
property of their constituent., by sending gentlemen to
that committee who might give votes dead against
them.

Mr. AldOrM7M BENNETT supported the adjournment.
Mr. STITT, while disclaiming all personal feeling, urged
that in the present position of affairs, with the impression
SO strongly prevailing out of doors that there was an
antagonism between the Dock Commit,ee and the Council,
and after the advice they had received from men in whom
they placed so much confidence, the election should be
postponed.
Finally, the Council divided upon the amendment, when
there appeared—
For the motion : Aldermen Bennett, Preston, Dover,
and Gardner; Councillors, Stitt, Stewart, Shoji, Haydock,
Steains, Banner, Fernihougb, Jo'inson, Picton, Kitchen,
Hodson, Mellor, Beckwith, and Anthony-18.
Against the motion : Aldermen Chilton, Parker, Robin-
son, and Houghton ; Councillors Anderson, Holden,
Turner, Hornby, Livingston. Graves, Wagstaff, Lawrence,
Shand, Brancker, Tobin, Farnworth, Robertson, Hall,
and Halhead-19.

The amsndment was consequently lost.
Mr. Plea' )N said ho had another amendment to-propose.
He considered that about as important a Council mewing
as had ever been held in Liverpool. Whether his conduct
was called unhandsome, whether personalities or epithets
wore used or not, ho should not be prevented from doing
what he conceived to be his duty. They were called upon
at present to express an opinion, which he thought they
ought not to be forced to express. Tnere was a question
of vast importance, involving hundreds of thousands of
pounds, connected with the town of Liverpool, pending
now for settlement before Parliament. Negociations had
been entered into by the promoters of the bill, and those
who were opposing it, with a v7ew to some compromise or
arrangement. Matters had arrived at a certain point in
the course of the negotiations, and it was considered by
those whom the Cannel had appointed as their managers,
that thay should be left at the present time free and
unfettered to adopt those measures which they might think
best for the welfare of the town of Liverpool. It
was their 01)7/lion that it would be better, upon
the present occasion, to avoid any discussion whatever
upon any matter involving difference of opinion in regard
to the bills before parliament, because they knew perfectly
well, that whatever decision might be arrived at by the
Council, would be eagerly seized upon by their opponents
out of doors, and would, if possible, be wrested to their
disadvantage. Caution, therefore, and prudence, were
absolutely necessary; and having confilence, as he had—
perfect confidence —in the gentlemen who had been ap-
pointed to transact their business, he was quite willing to
leave the matter entirely in their hands, to do the best they
could for the welfare of the community. Reference had
been made to the telegraphic messages which had been
sent down, and one message,which was nameless, had been
alluded to. as giving a sanction for the proceedings which
were attetnrni to be forces upon the Council that day.
Another message, which sanctioned opposite views, was
treated with contempt, b.cause it was supposed to
emana'e from a gentleman certainly not inferior in
talent and respectability to any member of the Council
be he who he might, if that gentleman had
sufficient of their confidence to be sent up as one of the de-
putation, to manage such an affair of importance, surely he
was entitled to have his opinion listened to with respect at
all events. (Hear, hear )
The DEPUTY-MAYOR : Are you speaking now upon the
question of melection
Mr. PICTON : I am about to move an amendment and I
have a right to move it in my own way. With all deference
to the chair, I intend to do so.
Mr. LIVINGSTON : I apprehend that every speaker has a
perfect right to choose his own way of moving an amend-
men ; but, I think, in deference to the Council, and in
deference to the representative who is in the chair, this
language ought to be addressed in a little more courteous
style.
Mr. Prcrost : If Mr. Livierton will point out any one
expression I have used disrespectful, improper, or dis-
courteous, I will withdraw it.
Mr. LIVINGSTON : You stated that you were abaut to
move an amendment, and that you would move it your
own way.

_
Mr. Picrox : I did say so, and I say so again. lam
not aware that there is anythirg disrespectful er din3ur-
teous in that. I understood that the chairman was com-
menting on the mode in which I introduced my amend-
ment.

The DEPUTY MAYOE. : I merely askod if you wore speak-
ing to the motion.
Mr. Pic rox : I am quite sure, sir, that whatever Mr.
Livingston may think, you will know that I am the lest
person to say anything disrespectful. I have too high an
opinion of your talent to do anything of the kind. Mr.
Piston then proceeded to say that all discussion hid been
deprecated by the deputation now in London ; and he had
expected, from the tone the meeting took in the early part
of the day, that they would have acted in perfect good
humour, and with mutual good understanding—that
nothing would have been brought forward which was at
:-11 likely to give occasion to differences of opinion—that
the-discussion of all matters relating to the Mersey Con-
servancy Bill would have been studiously avoided, as had
been recommended by those in whom they all had perfect
confider,ce. The very telegraphic message whi.'h had been
read by Mr. Tobin, was precisely to the effict that, after
the Dock Committee's proceedings had been read, the
the Council should then adjourn. The Dock Committee's
proceedings had been read and had been confirmed.
His Worship the MAYOR here entered the room, and
resumed his seat.

Mr. PICTON went on to say, that gentlemen must have
known, upon the slightest consideration, that the election
of the four members must have the effect of causing dis-
cussion. Those gentlemen had taken up a certain position,
and advocated certain views. He was not going into that
question then ; but they had advocated certain views as
regarded the position of the Dock Committee and the dock
trust, in reference to the Council and the ratepayers of
the town. Knowing the part which they had taken,