Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1857-12-04 00:00:00

UNIVERSITY OF OXFORD MIDDLE CLASS
EXAMINATIONS.

MEETING AT THE COLLEGIATE INSTITUTION.

A meeting was held last night in the Board Room of
the Collegiate Institution, convened by circulars issued
by Rev. Mr. Howson, principal of that institution ; Rev.
Dawson Turner, principal of the Royal Institution
Schools, and other gentlemen, for the purpose of adopting
such resolutions as might seem desirable, in reference to
the proposed scheme of middle-class examinations in con-
nection with the University of Oxford. There was a
numerous attendance, the following gentlemen being
among those present:—Alderman Samuel Holme, J. W.
Riley, Dr. Ibne, W. Gregson, J. T. Danson, J. Aikin, J.
G. Jones, Mr. Burrell, Rev. Dr. M•Neile, Rev. J. Harris,
Rev. J. S. Bareb, Rev. R. Wall, Rev. D. Turner, Rev. Mr.
Howsen, Rev. J. Cox, and the Rev. K. Pughe.
At seven o'clock, the chair was taken, on the motion of
the Rev. Mr. Howsen, by Mr. Alderman S. Holme.

The Chairman said Gentlemen, in consequence of
physical incapacity, I have been unable for the last few
years to take the chair at any public meeting, or to take
part in any of those public meetings in which there is
much excitement. And I should not have consented to
come here to-night, but rather have confined myself to
the quiet debates in our Council Chamber, if it had not
been that I was strongly urged to do so by my respected
friend on my right hand ; and loslieving that on a subject
like that of education to the middle classes, my being
here to-night might be beneficial to .the object which we
have in view, and as there is no rule without an excep-
tion, I venture to present myself before you, according to
the request which has been urgently made upon me.
And, gentlemen, I frankly tell you that I have been
urged by another and a strong motive. Within the last
few weeks I have been twice summoned to the brink of
the grave—in one case to follow the remains of an intel-
ligent son, and in another of a dearly beloved brother,
who has just been cutoff in the very prime of life and of
usefulness ; and I learned this lesson when standing
at the, graves of these two relatives, to make the
best use of the time which remains to me, because
" the night speedily cometh when no man can work," We
are living in an age of great exertion. Progress is dilated
upon by every tongue and by every pen. On our Rialto,
in our municipal chambers, in our Athenaeums, in our
place, of public resort, and around our own domestic
hearths, .progress is one of the all-absorbing topics of
conversation in these exciting days. Progress in science—
progress in legislation—progress in commerce—progress
in manufactures—and progress in colonization, together
with the progress made in our army and navy,—these are
the subjects which thrill every breast, and occupy the
attention of every one. Thoughts are being now rapidly
developed, and communicated to thousands on the wings
of the press ; and knowledge seems flying all over the
earth, making good, as it were,. the saying that " men
shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."
If this is the case—if progress is the subject of conversa-
tion to all classes—shall it not be to the philanthropic ?
shall those who Ire actuated by philanthropic impulses,
and by a desire for the amelioration of the condition of
their fellow creatures, or for the progress of intel-
lectual or religious knowledge—shall they lag behind the
worldly man ? shall they lag behind the commercial man ?
Shall they not use every exertion in their power for the
purpose of promoting those objects which will be
all-important to the human race ? On the subject of
education, you will permit me, for the sake of dividing
my topic, to speak of mankind as being divided into
three great and leading classes. I speak of the noble, the
rich, the landowner possessing his estates, as one class ;
I speak of the commercial man, the manufacturer, the
tradesman, the shopkeeper, as another great section of
the community ; and I speak of the third class, as being
the artizans of our land, as being our agricultural
peasantry, and the labouring classes in general. Now, in
the matter of education, the rich man can take care of
himself. His wealth gives him the means of cultivation,
of travel, and of improving his mind. Our universities
open wide their portals to all who can afford to pay for
tho education—magnificent education, as it is—ot' those
who enter them. Besides, those universities grant
dergees, which give men a status in society, and this is an
inducement for even the rich man to throw off the lasiness
and indolence which wealth frequently superinduces, and
he has an inducement in the titles which are given him
by the universities, to use his exertions in order to obtain
such a prize. Then, again, the poor have beea cared for
by general consent ; and if in our large towns and in many
of our country districts there is a single poor boy in the
present day does not get education of some sort or other,
it must in great measure be either his fault or it is the
fault of his parents, or those who ought to look after him,
because the exertions which have been made of late years
in the cause of education have brought it to every man's
door—and there is room 3 et for increase, and we hope
advantage will be taken of it. The Committee of Council
on Education has, with reference to the education of the
poor, made large provision for that class, and in the
schools under government there is an inspection under
which many of the children of the working classes are
absolutely receiving a better system of education and a
better degree of education than a very large number of
those who belong -to the middle class of which I have
spoken. (Hear, hear.) Belonging as I do myself to that
class which forms the strength of our nation, which
unites the upper and the lower strata of society, and forms
that great and noble pyramid of English society, which
mainly chooses our members of parliament, to which
is committed the choosing of our municipal and parochial
representatives ; which urges on the one class which is
above them, and gently drags forward the class which is
below them, I am exceedingly desirous that it should
have that stimulent to knowledge which the wealthy and
the upper classes can command, and which the beneficence
of our legislature has provided for the children,of the
poor. It does appear to me, from reading a few extracts
which Mr. Howsen has put into my hands, that there is a
want, with reference to the children of the middle classes,
which it is right and proper for us. to fill up. If our
universities are to maintain their distinguished position,
they must not now be slumbering while all the rest of the
world seems to be awake. They must stand at the head
of the educational movement. They must give an impulse
to that movement in the right direction. I am rejoiced to
see, by the reports put into my hauls's, that they are now
prepared to do so. or it is in education as it is in the
common business of life, that the hope of reward sweetens
labour ; a*d if the mercantile man is stimulated by
the hope of gain, so likewise must the children of the
middle classes have a reward to stimulate them to
an exertion in intellectual pursuits, which will be of signal
benefit to them. (Cheers.) The universities now, I
perceive, penpose an examination which will test the
schools as well as it will test the efficiency of the scholars.
The bulk of the middle classes seed their boys to schools
expecting them to obtain an education which avill fit them
for commercial purposes. A. great many of them are
disappointed in the results in the se schosls ; and although
it is far from my iutentiou to say one word to decry
many of the schools, which are kept by honest, industrious,
and deserving men, yet I am painfully conscious of the
fact, that a great number o'f' men to whom is committed
the education of the children of the middle classes, would
themselves cut but a very sorry figure if they had to
submit to an examination, even in the elementary princi-
ples of the various subjects they profess to teach.
(Cheers.) I was exceedingly struck by a passage from
the works of Dr. Arnold. bearing upon this subject,
which although it is rather long, I shall take the liberty
of reading The masters of our English or demmercial
schools labour under this double disadvantage—that not
only their moral but their intellectual fitness must be
taken upon trust. I do not mean that this is at all their
fault ; still less do I say that they are not fit actually for
the discharge of their important duties ; but still it is a
disadvantage to them that their fitness can only be
known after trial ; they have no evidence of it to offer
beforehand. They feel this inconvenience themselves,
and their pupils feel it also—opportunities for making
known their proficiency are wanting alike to both. It
has long been the reproach of our law that it has no
secondary punishments; it is no less true that we have no
regular system of secondary education. The classical
schools throughout the country have universities to look
to : distinction at school prepares the way for distinction
at college, and distinction at college is again the road to
distinction and emolument as a teacher ; it is a passport
with which a young man enters life with advantage,
either as a tutor or as a schoolmaster. But anything
like local universities—any so much as local distinction
or advancement in life held out to encourage exertion at
a commercial school, it is as yet vain to look for. Thus
the business of education is degraded; for a schoolmaster
of a commercial school, having no means of acquiring a
general celebrity, is rendered dependent on the inhabi-
tants of his own immediate neighbourhood ; if he offends
them he is ruined. This greatly interferes with the
maintenance of discipline ; the boys are well aware of
their parents' power, and complain to them against the
exercise of their master's authority. Nor is it always
that the parents themselves can resist the temptation of
showing their own' importance, and giving the
master to understand that he must be careful how
he ventures to displease them." In that passage
you have the gist of what I wish myself to convey.
Now, gentlemen, permit me before I sit down
to say a word or two upon a subject which I con-
ceive to be highly important. Some persons object to
these proposed examinations, which are suggested and
sanctioned by the Universities, on the ground that they
involve the concession of 'a vital principle—a principle
which has always been identified with the Universities of
our land, namely, that religion should be amalgamated
with every step of education, and that it should be the
basis of, and interwoven with the whole superstructure.
They point to that paragraph which states that the
examination in the rudiments of faith and religion, shall
not be compulsory upon any candidate whose parents or
guardians shall have declined it on his behalf. An
important topic, and deserving of the most serious con-
sideration. (Hear, hear.). Now, while I agree with the
objectors in the abstract, I differ with them in the mode
of dealing with the question, at the same time I confess
it is to my mind a very difficult one. I think all educa-
tion is incomplete which treats man only as an intellectual
being, and forgets his immortal condition, his immortal
part. (Hear.) In all study the great fountain of light
and of knowledge should be kept steadily in view. Mans
accountability to God, who gave him his reflection, his
perception, his memory, his anticipation, and who
breathed into his ncstrils the breath of life, and made him
a living soul, should be interwoven with every act of

Iman's life as well as with his education. But, Ibelieve
that among the thousands who will avail themselves of
the examinations, few, if any, will really be found to
object to the general examination on the principles of
Christianity; and the faith in which the large masses of
the people of this country are so happily united. I
cannot, therefore, cast away a positive good for an
imaginary evil. (Hear, hear.) The same objection
might be raised to all the events of business, and of
commercial and daily life. Religion ought to be blended
with all we do, and all we say, for we are all accountable
beings; I mean not that spurious thing, mis-called
religion, which is a mere empty profession—which is
hypocritical towards God and offensive towards men,
but I mean that vital principle which dwells in the heart,
which regulates the life and the conduct, which makes
men forbearing, charitable, and honest, and stamps their
every action with sincerity and truth. But we cannot
impart that to others—we cannot, at least, force it upon
others—and if I cannot do all the good I could wish, let
me at least do all the good that I can. (Hear, hear.) I
must not sit down, fold my arms, and do nothing in these
days of enterprise and of energy ; and he who spoke as
never man spoke, when the poor widow cast her two
mites into the treasury, has rendered her name immortal
by commrnending her in these words—" She hath done
what she could.' (Hear.) Men are much easier per-
suaded than they are driven ; and if we are to do nothing
until all men are agreed upon every doctrinal point, then
depend upon it that nothing materially good, or for the
general benefit, ever will be done. (Hear, hear.) The
plan proposed is upon a broad basis, so that those who
differ from the Church of England in form or in discipline,
willinot be excluded from participation in that which is
desired for the benefit of the whole. Let me ask why
should they ? It is our object in the present day, in car-
rying forward the work of benevolence, to bring as many
as we can within the fold, to participate in the
benefits which we desire to confer upon all; and our Uni-
versities will do more to extend christian knowledge by
acting liberally than they would by wrapping themselves
up in an exclusive dignity and doing nothing but pursue
the system they have pursued for many years. (Hear.)
The system, then, now proposed involves no compromise
of principle ; and if I thought it did I for one would not
be seen here to-night. (Hear, hear.) But it leaves one
point to the consideration of parents and guardians, and
with that point I am not disposed to interfere. Our plan
is sanctioned by the names of hundreds of the most dis-
tinguished and most pious men in our churches and our
colleges, and it is rather an augmentation of a benefit than
it is an abandonment of a religious principle. As one,
then, of the middle classes, I demand for that great class
to which I myself have the honoar to belong the best
education which it is in their power to obtain, and I trust
that all parents in that class will take care that their
children shall partake of the inestimable benefits which ,
the enterprise, the benevolence, the zeal, and the learning
of the present day brings so closely to their doors.
It would be wrong for me, in the presence of so many
gentlemen much more able is grapple with this subject
than I am, to occupy any more of your time now. I shall,
therefore, leave it to others to go into details, merely with
these few general and hastily thrown-together expressions
of my sentiments, urging upon you that you join us in this
and in every other work which shall benefit the rising
generation—which shall improve their minds—which shall
make them better subjects, and, as I fervently trust in
God, make theta better sons, better members of society,
and make them beneficial to the whole human race.
(Hear, hear, and loud applause.)
'she Rev, Dawson Turner proposed the first resolution,
and, in doing so, commenced by referring to the great
want of sufficient stimulus which schoolmyters were able
to hold out to the great majority of their scholars at the
close of their school career. At present, he observed, the
majority of lads knew that, at the age of fifteen, or there-
abouts, they would be taken from school and placed in
some merchant's office, and that the only studies in which
it was necessary they should be proficient were writing
and arithmetic, with, perhaps, a slight • knowledge; of
French and German. if they knew, however, that, at the
end of their school career, they would have to pass an
examination, and that, if successful, their names would
be published and their distinction proclaimed, a stimulus
to study would be held out to them, andscondition of
things would be brought about in which the schoolmaster
would be enabled to put more into the pupils and get more
learning out of them. Despite of the strictions in the
Saturday's Review, he was of opinion that, in the proposed
scheme of middle-class examination, was the gem of great
good, and he, therefore, felt great pleasure in moving the
resolution which approved of that scheme.' (Hear, hear.)
Mr. W. Gregson seconded the resolution, and in doing
so, expressed his opinion also that the scheme was likely
to be productive of great good to the country at . large.
While the religions faith of all was considered in the plan,
all that the members of the Established Church would
require for themselves was provided, and, therefore, he
considered that no one could object to it. ( Hear, hear.)
The Rev. Mr. Howson, in supporting the motion, lave
a history of the movement which led to the now proposed
scheme of middle-class examinations, and then referred to
the advantages which it was likely to afford. It would
give a stimulus and reward to the school-boys, because it
would prevent them from flagging in their studies, just at
the moment that their minds are opening and more ready
to imbibe the knowledge that was being imparted to then:.
Again, the certificate of examination would be the best
testimony to character which a boy could produce, and
the moral discipline which such an ordeal would call for,
while making the boy diligent and studious, vgould make
the man a useful and high-toned citiz.m. (Hear,
heor.) It would be a protection and reward also to the
schoolmaster, for while undoubtedly there were many
schoolmasters in the middle class of life totally unfit for
their duties, there were also among them many con-
scientious and able men, and whose talents only wanted
a wide field for display, in order to have it generally
recognised. (Hear, hear.) The proposed examination
would at one proie the competency of the teacher, and in
it also the parents would find the best guarantee for
honest and bona fide teaching, It would also most likely
lead to a general and comprehensive scheme of middle-
class education, and thus the inconvenience now experi-
enced on removing a boy from one school to another
would be removed, for in all schools the same system
would be taught. As to the religious view of the subject,
it should be remembered that it was one of examination,
not education, and that had the University made an
examination in religion essential, it would be practically
to exclude all the dissenters in the country. In his
judgment an examination on religion involved an exami-
nation on doctrinal points; if it excluded doctrine, •it
would be an examination simply on morals. For himself,
he would like that an examination on religioa could be
passed by alt, but as the subject of religion in connection
with education was one surrounded by many difficulties,
and was one on which it was almost impossible all could
agree, he thought the plan in respect of religion proposed
by the University was the wisest under the circum-
stances. (Hear. hear.)
The Chairman was about to put the motion, when
The Rev. Dr. M'Neile rose and begged to be allowed to
make some observations. He said—Mr. Chairman, I
heard nothing of this movement until I received the
priuted circular containing the names of Mr. Howson, Mr.
Turner, and a few others, but I felt the moment I read it
that it was indeed a great movement; and I feel now, that
should this meeting be so constituted as that I shall find
but a feeble response to any observations that I may feel
i, my duty to make, yet still, in watever unfavourable
position as to externals a man may find himself standing
among a company of Englishmen,, if he can but say that
he is conscientious in what he is about, he will receive at
least fair play at their hands. ( ar, hear.) I feel that
it is indeed a great movement, anl I feel that it would be
most improper to treat it lightly, as Mr. Howson said, or,
to use his words in an earlier part of his speech, to dis-
pose or reject it carelessly. I am prepared to go with him
in much that he has set forth on the practical benefits to
be derived from the scheme, though I think that it is pos-
sible to be too s inguine as to the immediate result in that
direction, because it will require some time before the
middle classes of the country can be brought up to any-
thing like an ambition for a certificate or degree of A. A..
But waving all that, and allowing to the fullest the prac-
tical benefits that will eventually be derived from such a
scheme as this, supposing it be cordially embraced by the
country, I must now proceed to say that I believe I would
not have felt it my duty to interpose in any way had there
been no reference whatever in the scheme to religion of any
kind; but I candidly confess that I do feel constrained to
protest against the manner in which Christianity is treated
in the scheme. I do not refer to the clause already
treated by the Chairman and Mr. Howson, which contains
an illusion to the rudiments of faith and religion, and an
examination on some parts of the Bible and prayer book,
it is not to that especially I refer, though to that I have..
an objection. You have already heard from Mr. Howson
what bad judges in many respects parents are—how they
allow incompetent masters to teach their children and
waste their time, yet here the University of Oxford pro-
pounds that parents and guardians shall be the judges
of whether their children shall be examined in religion or
not • that is to say, as the parents are so the children are
to be. Is this progress ? This is an age for progress,
we are told, but here, on the contrary, if the parents of
the children bappen to be Christian, their young men are
to be indulge-d in an examination on Cnristianity, bat if
they happen to be infidel, the infidelity of the father is to
be stereotyped in his offspring; and as the father was, so
the child is to continue for anything the University of
Oxford has to say to the contrary. The University of
Oxford offers her honours, her certificate signed by the
Chancellor, her degree of A. A., without the slightest
abatement in that honour on account of the' infidelity of
the candidate ; but what is worse, and"what has brought
me here to-night, is contained in this clause of the regula-
tions—" The fact that a candidate has passed the
examination in the rudiments of faith and religion will be
entered in his certificate, although it will not affect his
place in the list." Now here is what I venture to consider
ill treatment before the whole country of this great sub-
ject of religion. (Applause.) This appears to me to
treat. Christianity with practical contempt—excuse the
strong language, but what else is it ? The University of
Oxford cannot allow even a single mark for the candidate
on account for proficiency in religion. So that if a
candidate should reject religion altogether, or if he should
attempt it and fail in it, and show that he is totally igno.
rant of the subject, his position on the list of honours will
be no worse; and if he should prefer a religious examina-
tion, and prove himself highly proficient in Christianity,
his position in the list of honours will be no better. What
is that but to treat Christianity as a servaat,..aud as

useless servant—in the house of literature, instead of
giving her place she is entitled to as the mother
and mistress and queen of all education? (Ap-
plause.) Sir, I know very well that practical
men and busy men, who feel that time is precious and
that talk is cheap ; I knew they dont like to go back into
general principles, and open up abstract questions; but I
would ask with reference to this scheme, as now pointed
out—is Christianity true, or is it false ? Is it what it
professes to be, or is it a cunningly devised fable ? If it
be not, then to introduce it at all into this scheme is an
absurdity; and if it be what it professes to be, and what
I submit it is ;to treat it in this way is profane. (Hear,
hear.) I believe, and I suggest to my fellow townsmen
to consider it seriously. I believe that man is so situated
in this world, as fallen man, so alienated from God, that
cultivation without alteration—that is—education without
religion, quickening and stimulating the material, as you.
have it without first attempting to alter the character of
that material, is upon the whole, a curse, and not a bless-
ing. (Hear, hear.) I have heard yourselves (the chair-
man) say the same; I have heard you eloquently declare
this on former occasions, when twenty-one years ago, the
scheme of education, in which Christianity was not to be
a necessary, was attempted to be forced on the poorer
classes in the Corporation Schools. (Hear, hear.) That
scheme failed, and 1 cannot bring myself to believe that
if Liverpool was tested, it would accept from the university
of Oxford for the middle classes what it rejected from tho
Town Council for the poorer classes. I believe that cul-
tivation without alteration is not for good but for evil. I
believe that civilisation unattended by religion, however
more fair in aspect before men, is more fertile in crime,
polished, varnished crime—that it is more attended with
hypocrisy—that it is more characterised by resistance to
the secret workings of the spirit of God, and that, there-
fore, it is more detestable in the sight of God, and leads
to a greater and more overwhelming punishment, with
heavier and more numerous stripes, than the open atro-
citieS of unreclaimed barbarism. (Hear, hear.) I
believe that on that day to which the chairman invited our
attention when he led us to the brink of the grave—l
believe that on that great day,it will be more favourable
for the heathen savage who had never had a lesson in
chemistry, geology, or christianity, than it will be for the
Doctor, or Bachelor, or Master, or Associate of Arts of
the University of Oxford, who made himself acquainted
with all the languages of the ancients and all the science
of the moderns, and who died without the saving know-
ledge of the grace of God and Jesus Christ—(applause)—
and, therefore, I cannot say that 1 approve of a plan
coming forward with all the power and all the prestige
and authority of the university of Oxford, and throwing
itself among the middle classes of England, which shall
treat christianity as this plan does. I would rather they
had said nothing about it at all—l would rather they had
left it out entirely as a portion of education at home, and
that they had distinguished between examination and
education. But they have introduced it, and in-
troduced it to disparage it, and, therefore, I
cannot agree—though I should stand alone—l cannot
agree that this scheme from the University of
Oxford do receive our approval. (Applause.) I do not
know at this moment whether these is a single gentleman
in the room that will second the amendment which I shall
propose, or whether it will fall through from the want of
a seconder. I would rejoice to see this scheme for
quickening and stimulating the middle classes, if it were
done in this way—if an examination in the Word of God,
without man's note or comment, were made imperative on
all. Does not the Bible deserve that at our own hands ?
Has God Almighty spoken, or has he not? If He has,
how dare we treat 'what He has said, with indifference
and ignomony ? As regards Dissenters, they will be
absolutely precluded from ever showing themselves for
religious examination, because, what is proposed here, is
not merely the Bible, but also an examination in the
Prayer-book and Catechism. The proposers then, of the
scheme, have gone too far. They ought to have arranged,
so as to have taken everything that could be sectarian out
of the examination, and when it was reduced to the bare
Word of God, it should then bacome compulsory.
(Applause.) The rev, gentleman concluded, by proposing
the following amendment :
" Having examined the plan now before us. emanating
from the University of Oxford, for the promotion of
middle class education, by means of examinations to be
held and distinctions conferred in various par s of the
kingdom : perceiving with deep regret that religion forms
no essential or imperative part of the proposed education,
but is left optional with the parents or guardians of the
candidate, and that where the option is in its favour it is
disparaged, the candidate's place on the list of honours
being in no way affected by it, so that though he should
reject it altogether, or acquit himself very badly in it, he
is nothing worse, and though he should prefer it and
acquit himself with high proficiency in it, he is nothing
better, Resolved,—' That while we venerate the Uni-
versity of Oxford as the ancient and renowned' seat of
sound learning and of the true religion established in this
realm, and while we would unfeignedly rejoice in an
extension among our middle classes of distinctions derived
from her fountain of honour, such as would give an effec-
tive and wide-spread stimulus to the highest and best
improvement in any department of a Christian education,
we feel conscientiously precluded from availing ourselves
of a proposal which denies to Christianity the place to
which we consider it entitled in every scheme of education
calculatedito do real good to fallen men.'"
aißev.:'Mr. Pugh seconded Dr. McNeille's amendment,
observing that by the proposed system, a course of reli-
gious instruction would not only be no advantage, but an
absolute disadvantage, inasmuch as a boy who took up
a number of subjects of study, minus divinity, would,
necessarily, ccetaris paribus, have a greater chance of
success than one who included divinity in his studies.
Mr. James Ryley declared that he was a Quaker, and
trusted that he was a Christian also. (Cheers.) He
would not succumb to any man in love of the Tital religion,
but it seemed to him that Dr. McNeille made Church of
Englandism Christianity. (Cries of hear, hear, and
no, no.)_ _ _

Dr. McNeille : Quite the contrary.
Mr. Ryley said tho examination as proposed by Dr.
McNeille would debar any of his sins—and he had a good
many of them—from taking any part or deriving any
advantage. lie honoured the Bible, and was devoted
to it.
Dr. McNeille : The Bible is all I want.

Mr. Riley said he wanted the examination to be such
that every one could take part in them. (Cheers.)
Aye, even the infidel. Ho was not one of those
who• thought education a bad thing, even for the
infidel. He believed education must always tend to
purify men's minds, and that the educated
man was better than the uneducated savage at any time
(Hear, hear.) He objected, therefore, to any examina-
tions being introduced, of which all could not partake,
believing education to be a refining process which all
ought to go through. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. J. T. Danson said, if anything could add to the
strength of his conviction, that the introduction of the
topic of religion at all into any scheme of that description,
was almost, if not quite, certain to destroy its utility, it
would be what he had heard within the last twenty
minutes• (Hear, hear.) He had watched, during the past
twenty years, the efforts made by the best men of the
country, at the very foundation-stone of real progress,
and he had seen their efforts fail at every step, by one
enemy appearing in a thousand forms, and that enemy
was sectarianism in religion. (Hear. hear.) His
impression on the present occasion was, that when Dr.
M'Neile threw down the apple of discord there, he had
done signal service to the object most of them had come
there to forward, by showing precisely the effeet which
came by introducing the topic of religion into
such a scheme. It was not in the power of
such a meeting to a meeting to offer any material
opposition to such a scheme so introduced and supported.
But it was in their power to point out in what originated
the dangers they were running upon. (Hear, hear.) He
believed that by the introduction of that single article
upon religion, there had been planted that which would
spring up to choke and destroy the crop of the looked
for. The more he sought out the root' of the Sectarian
difficulties to popular education, the nearer he came to
the conclusion that the author of Christianity never
meant it to be regarded from an intellectual point of view.
They did religion a grievous wrong when they called upon
men to prove it by an intellectual test. (Hear, hear.)
A man might prove himself the most deeply read in
divinity who ever breathed, without convincing his
hearers that he had one spark of religion in his soul.
(Hear, bear.) To put a boy on a form, and examine
into his acquaintance with Genesis and Exodus—not to
descend even into the minor, and in that regard more
mischievous details of Church Catechism and Litany]
was no test of his religion. . Although he belonged to the
Church of England himself, he regretted to say that it.
was only the Church of England in the sense that it was
the dominant sect. (Hear, hear.) Strongly, therefore,
objecting to the introduction of an element which could
only result in secterian difference ; it was his intention
when Dr. IWNeile's amendment had been disposed of, to
propose another amendment to the effect, that whilst the
meeting recognised with pleasure, and would support to
the utmost of their power, the general intention manifes-
ted in the scheme before them, They much regretted
that the article of religion had not been altogether
omitted.

The Rev. Mr. Howson put it to Dr. M`Neile and to M
Danson whether it would not ba well to withdraw their
amendment, on the simple ground that the scheme was
absolutely unchangeable for three years, and to pass an
amendment would merely be to declare that Liverpool
rejected the scheme for that time, or until amended. This
he thought too serious a responsibility for them to under-
take. He regretted that they should have got into most
serious and important theological qua stions, upo❑
which he could not possibly then embark. In all his
remarks upon the general question, he quite agreed
with Dr. .111'Neile ; and in the latter part of his ob-
servations, he quite differed with Mr. Ryley. Ile did
honestly believe that a bad man, highly educated, was
a more dangerous man, than a bad man without educa-
tion. But, how could the University, by modifying the
scheme, make an infidel parent accept it ? The scheme,
at present, was more likely to be accepted by those
inclined to be irreligious, than if the religious e:ement
were made compulsory. He urged that there was a great
difference between examining and educating, and that there
was any analogy between the present question and that
of the Corporation Schools referred to by Dr. M'Neile.
He asked how could Dr. Mlsleile's proposal be carried
out without sectarianism ? They had had an instance that
night, in the speech of Mr. Ryley, who had so hoheatly