Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1859-04-07 00:00:00

the last ci lg, sett my occupa,
gene. I had endeavoured, to the best of my ability, to
discharge my duties towards the markets, and to deal with
them as if they were my own property. Long before day-
break these affairs have beenin my head, which is a great
deal more than I can say of the attentions which I have
paid to my own interests. But I felt that, to throw up the
reins just at that moment, would appear a sort of petulant act ;
and, moreover, I considered, feeling that there was a little
want of full explanationin the report of the committee there
might be an opportunity. offered in the markets' committee
of setting the matter right. The council have now the
whole thing before them. If they choose to say, " these
resolutions do not make the matter one whit better—we
are still of the same opinion as we were on the last day
when we whipped up those from various quarters who never
heard of the subject before they. came to give a vote upon
it, and we will whip them up again." I have no objection
to that. The responsibility -does not fall upon me. The
majority decide it, and I wish them all the benefit
of the credit arising from it. I have omitted one very
important feature connected with this, subject, which is
this—l hope that, for the future, whoever may form the
markets' committee, will- pass a resolution forbidding all
their servants to receive, directly or indirectly, any conside-
ration, in money or in present of any kind, so long as they
hold their respective situations. (Hear, hear.) There is a
circumstance, if I wanted one, which shows that the coun-
cil have not not done their duty. They have not inter-
fered when they ought to have done so. I look upon this
circumstance as having been more injurious to one individual
than almost any other which has befallen him. When we,
who are the paid servants of the public body, take from
these with whom they have to deal, money or any other
consideration, let it be in the shape of coin, or plate, or
any other left in their power to bestow, I say this indepen-
dence of those men is gone. (Hear, hear.) They ran
exercise no further control whatever. (Hear, hear.l That
is one point, which, perhaps, when the funeral bell is tolled
for these resolutions, you will add as an addendum to the rest.
Mr. Sheil said, he could not agree with Mr. Gladstone's
observations, with reference to Mr. Turner, and he did not
know how Mr. Gladstone could make such an observation,
having watched the chairman of the dock board at that
council, and knowing that that was his almost uniform
practice to jump np whenever any alteration -was proposed
that was to "benefit the estate, and by a side wind endeavour
to prevent it being carried out, and spoke with the greatest
determination on every subject just with the reverse pro-
portion -of his knowledge of the subject. With respect to
these resolutions, it was a matter of little importance
to tire markets' committee whether they were carried or
not. He was not' a member to vote for the changes
recommended, but he agreed with them, and c'he
believed they would be to the advantage of the
estate. He thought the members of the market committee
shoiild not have retired without expressing their opinion on
these-matters. 1-e. allusion to Mr. Tyrer, the seconder of
the amendment, he said he knew nothing of the business ef
the council. He-was-only a member of the gaol committee.
Mr. Avison asked what position the council would be -in,
suppoing it confirmed these resolutions. Were they
bound to carry ,out. the recommendations ?
The Town-clerk said he did not understand the resolu-
lions as laying down any rule. They were merely.expres-
Sions of opinion.
Mr. Farnworth expressed his 'regret that personalities
hitil been introduced into that discussion. With reference
to the testimonial to Mr. Luya, there could be no difference
of opinion. He thought it -a -very bad principle of any
Officer of the corporation receiving gifts in and way, espe-
rtiially the superintendent of 'the markets receiving a testi-
monial from the tenants of the markets. Re thought a
great deal of the odium that had been -cast upon
Mr. Luya had arose from this very circumstance. It was
most injudicious, and ought not to be permitted. (Hear,
hear.) After speaking of theiresolutions, whith he charac-
terised as inconsistent, he -sail he would support Mr. Tur-
ner's amendment.

le last

;onncil meeting

I ' felt that

,tion was

Mr. Alderman Parker said the system of attacking 'indi-
viduals in the council was (cowardly and dastardly Ile
could not see how-or in what way the council were to blame
for the inefficiency of the markets. It rested 'with the mar-
kets' committee, -and if they knew anything wrong, it was
their duty to bring it before; he council, and vihoever knew of
anything wrong, and did not bring it before the council,
deserved a vote of censure.
Mr. Bowrinc,,said, the reason why the sub-committee did
not go into details in their-report, in the first instance was,
because the members of the markets' committee were aware
of the facts. After the resolution was rescinded by the
council, a majority of the members of the committeee
thought it incumbent upon them to place the matter more
fully before them. With respect to the remarks of Mr.
Cooper in •reference to the ,markets' committee, he subniitted
that the markets' committee had done their duty, and they
had given a •very industrious attention to the snbjects
brought before them, and the result of that industry had
been laid before the council.

Mr. Anderson said, he was one of those who thought a
great deal move had been made of this matter than was
necessary. He agreed in the prospective of appointing a
general superintendent, but what he complained of was
making the appointment at-present. He would wait 'till the
supelintendant had ceased to exist as such. Ile generally
supported the recommendations of the committees, but he
thought this was an extraordinary one.
Mr. Tobin said, before this subject was put to the vote,
he would wish to express his opinion. He agreed with
Mr. Anderson as to the support of the recommendations of
committees, which he was generally found to support,
because the proceedings of men whose motives could not be
questioned were entitled to great respect. Fle was not
indisposed to appoint a general superintendent over the
markets, but he objected to appointing a superintendent, re-
ceiving £3OO, over superintendents who were receiving £275.
With reference to the resolution, it did appear to him, that
it was really and truly the markets' committee passing a
Note of censure upon that council. The markets committee
stated that great 'disorder had crept into the markets, for
-which the council •was partly to blame. He was not aware
that the markets' committee had brought forward anything
previous to this resolution that was refused, and then they
turned round, and, in point of fact, blamed them for not
providing a remedy for that which they knew nothing of.
In opposing these resolutions, he regretted that the members
of the markets' committee had resigned their posts. He
thought, after discovering such great irregularities, they
would have had courage to remain at their post. Ho hoped
that the gentlemen who used hot expressions, in the course
of the debate, did not mean to give insult —as, for instance,
the remarks in reference to the chairman of the dock board.
The council would see that such remarks were unseemly.
(Hear., hear.)
Mr. Jeffery said that the eouncil should have been very
chary before it rescinded a resolution passed at the previous
monthly meeting, and with great jealousy of its own
consistency. The idea occurred to him, that Mr. Fern-
worth, an .ex-member of the committee, felt that that
resolution was a vote of censure upon himself and the late
members of the markets' committee ; and before the
council rescinded . such a resolution, they should have
investigated most narrowly, with feelings of doubt and
great suspicion, any motion to rescind that resolu-
tion. There were seven gentlemen of the late
markets' committee, who voted for Mr. Fern-
worth's motion, and they were from two to ten years on that
committee. He thought the resignations of the gentlemen
were perfectly constitutional. They came before them
with a report of certain irregularities, to which that council
were assenting parties, and they told them the way which
they proposed to manage them, and the council accepted
that, but subsequently they rescinded that, and conse-
quently the members threw up their office. On Mr. Farn-
worth lay the responsibility of constituting a new com-
mittee. As representative of Lime-street Ward, he would
refuse to be a member of the markets' committee, as there
was political matters brought to bear there of which he
would be no party to. He would ask Mr. Anderson to say
when he would appoint a general superintendent ? If he
would wait till one office was vacant, or the whole three ?
if a person would be appointed to fill up one vacancy till
another became vacant, or how a vacancy of the three
offices was to occur ?
Mr. Kitchen said, it was not the fault of the markets'
committee, but he would say that when they had cause of
complaint they ought to have removed that cause, and then
applied the remedy. He hoped that those who formed the
majority in the markets' committee, would do their duty to
those in minority, as they expected they would be honour-
ably dealt with by those in majority over them.
Mr. Ridley said, as he was a member of the markets
committee, and had voted for the resolutions, he would do
so again, and against the amendment.
Mr. Woodruff said he would not long occupy the time of
the council, by indulging in such remarks as had been
offered by the member for Abercromby Ward. He would
leave it to himself whether it was in accordance with what
he professed. He had only to say, notwithstanding Mr.
Gladstone's observations, that he was appointed on two
occasions as chairman of the committee, when Mr. Glad-
stone was present, and consented to it.
Mr. Gladstone : I was not present on those two occasions.
Mr. Woodruff : I would refer you to the minutes in
1858 and 1857, and you will, I think, find there who was
present.
Mr. Beckwith : He came in late.
Several voices called out to read the minutes, which was
done, and it was there recorded that Mr. Gladstone was
present at the meeting at which Mr. Woodruff was appointed
deputy-chairman.
proof
MM rr
of
WoodruffGladstoneou with neglect of
Mr, Woodruff: Then I will charge y
g
duty in coming late. (Hear, hear.)
presentNl ow
was I takenaoopnr
ee
swoehfna
the
h. i
es
members. there
Mr. Gladstone: That is my affair, not yours.
had
Mr. Woodruff went 411 to say that his " yam r