Northern Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1859-02-03 00:00:00

given r

lraw his motion.
The motion was accordingly withdrawn.
Mr. Johnson asked what was being done with regard
to the approaches to St. George's Hall, on the Islington
side, where the thoroughfare was at present almost alto-
; Aber obstructed.
Mr. Alderman Parker stated that arrangements were

-being -made- -for—the immediater-completku of - these
approaches.
Mr. Ryley moved that a return be presented to the
next meeting of the Council, of the entire cost, up to dig
Oresent time, of St. George's-Hall, together with an esti-
mate of the further outlay, and probable time which
would be required for its completion. He stated that he.
Was .much rejoiced to hear, that arrangements had been
made to finish the approaches, and at the - same
time he expressed a ; ,hope that having taken
down the tall pillars, they were not .going to put
little ones up. Very solid foundations seemed to be dug
there, as if they were ,going to have another attempt of
the same kind. The lions put up there were quite bad
enough.
Mr. Picton expressed a hope that Mr. Ilyley would
withdraw his, motion for the present. They all knew
what a handle had been made, in times gone by, by the
opponents. of Liverpool, and of Liverpool affairs, in.
reference to the cost of 'St. George's Hall. It had been
a standing grievance. They were not yet out of danger,
andt
renderhereit prudent n
were other matters
to to be
such a motion considermed
onwhich
might at
the present_ moment.

Mr. Shell seconded Mr. Ryley's motion, and strongly
condemned the advice given by Mr. Picton. He con-
tended that the Council, as representatives of the public,
had a full right to have all, the information as to the
amount of money they had expended, and would yet
have to expend, and he expressed a hope that no loan
in the Council-room would again dare to propose that
such information should be withheld.
Mr. Aikin demurred to the motion, not because he
objected• to, give any information, but because he be-
lieved it could be easily had from the treasurer, without
the necessity for any motion.

The council then divided, when there appeared

For : Councillors Woodruff, Sheil, Corbally, aydock
O. Turner, Tyrer, Ryley, Graves, Ridley, Wagstaff,
Tobin, Gladstone, Johnson, Kitchen, Clint, Beckwith,
Farnworth, Vernon-19.
Against : The Mayor; Aldermen Parker, Cooper,
Gardner, Houghton • Councillors Cronin Littledale,
Avison, Bowrinb,o- P. Jeffreys, Job, Earle, J. R.
Jeffery, Picton, Aikin, Stewart, Anthony, Cropper---18.
The motion was therefore. carried.

Mt. Shell asked whether there were any .regulations
with regard to the letting of St. George's Hall and the
Concert-room for public meetings or lectures.. He also
wished to ask to whom the management and carrying out
of those regulations was entrusted ; and whether there.
was not a deviation from the regulations in regard-to: the
application. made by.the Rev. Mr. Nugent ?
Mr. Turner said, in answer to the first question, there
were resolutions sanctioned by the council for the regula-
tion of the hall, and the: only positive prohibition was,
to the hall being let for a political object. With respect
to all other seets, it was left to the discretion of the
committee, and they alone had the power to decide
whether the hall was to be let or not.

Mr. Shell: Still that does not exactly answer my
question- To whom does the committee entrust the
carrying: out of the arrangement ? Has the manager the
power to let the hall and concert-room under any cir-
cumstances ?

Mr. Turner : For mere common concerts Mr.
M'Keuzie has the power to let them upon the usual
terms ; but it very seldom indeed happens that he lets the
rooms without consulting the committee. •
Mr. Beckwith : Has he the power to let them to any
,gentleman wishing to deliver a lecture ?
Mr. Turner said he had not the, power.
M. Woodruff begged leave to move an amendment
upon the proceedings. He thought the explanations
given were not satisfactory, because there appeared a
decided want of uniformity in the letting of the hall. He
scarcely thought the committee themselves precisely knew
what were the rules and regulations which governed them.
He knew of one or two cases where the Hall was let
for religious purposes. On one occasion it .was let for a
concert,, the special object of which was to provide funds
for the erection of an organ in a church, Was not that
a religious purpose ? (No, no.) At Christmas it was
let for the purpose of exhibiting Christmas trees for the
benefit of schools in connexion with certain churches.
(Oh, oh.) Was not that a religious object ? (No, no,
and laughter.) More recently an application was made
for the use of the hall for a lecture upon the question
whether the- education of the poor was answering its
purpose, a cpiestion which affected all sects and classes
alike, and the application was refused.
Mr. Turner, I beg your pardon, it was not refused.
(Hear, hear.), .
Mr: Woodruff.: Well, you did not grant it when it
was asked.
Mr. Earle : Nor could we. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. Woodruff : There is an impression abroad that the
use of the room was refused because the gentleman to
give the lecture was a Roman Catholic. (Oh, oh.) ,
Mr. Earle : That is all nonsense.

Mr. Turnor; I totally deny such a thing

Mr. Woodruff thought the council ouglt to be exceed-
ingly careful how, with so large and respectable a Roman
Catholic .poputation in the town, they allowed such
insinuations to go abroad., He did not care by whom an
application was made, provided it was for a legitimate
object sanctioned by the council. He; therefore, moved
an amendment, declaring that the explanation given by
the chairman of the committee, in reference to the refusal
to grant the use of the room for a lecture by Cardinal
Wiseman, was not satisfactory, and that the regulations
sanctioned by the Council, for the use of St. George's
Hall and the-Concert-room, be now read. _ _ _

After some conversation, Mr. Woodruff withdrew the
first part of the amendment, and merely moved that the
regulations be read.
Mr. Gladstone seconded the motion, which was carried
without any objection.
Mr. Turner read the regulations, which vested in the
committee, a general discretion to let the rooms, except
for " political purposes."
Mr. Woodruff said, the committee would have had a
perfect right to let the hall under the eircum.staneesi but
the chairman was permitted to give- verbal orders, and
all the applications for the use
,of the hall had not been
submitted to the committee_

Mr. Turner said, in the instance referred to, he would
not take upon himself the responsibility ; but he offered
to call a special meeting of the committee, on the
following day.
The Mayor said, Mr. Woodruff had heard the
explanation given by Mr. Turner, at an earlier stage of
the debate, and still he persisted in taking a one-sided

view of the subject

Mr. Woodrak said, all he had stated was that the
chairman of the committee, had, upon other occasions,
given the room upon his own authority.
Mr. Picton said he claimed the right to make a few
remarks on the subject before them,because it had always
been his wish and desire that the utmost possible scope
should be given to every class in attempting to secure for
all the use of this noble building for public meetings; but
it had been decided that there should not be any religious
or political meetings. He would like to know what a
p3htical meeting was ? He would like to know what a
religious meeting was ? And he should like to hear any
person define what is the difference ? But why should
they not let the hall for such, purposes, as all
took a great interest in such • matters ? He did
"t beautiful and spacious hall should
But reference had been

not be used for such. purposE

made to the committ

He should like to know what

and during that time the hal

once, but, if there was any trouble about the matter then
a special meeting was called at once, and
the committee decided. He considered that the
chairman of the committee was exonerated from all

blame in the late application, and could not have acted
otherwise than he had, and in conclusion said, if any
gentleman could suggest a better mode of managing the
hall, the committee would gladly receive those sug-

gestions

veil sai

there was any

restrictions as to rel
which had been read.
Mr. Robertson Gladstone said, after what had taken
place at the early part of the discussion, when it
was said that religious meetings were not to be held in
the hall, he had retracted some of the observations he
had made, but now he found that the exception only
alluded to political subjects—there was not a word about
religion—therefore he found that he was replaced in the
position in which he was when he first started out. He
thought that the use of the room had really been refused
because the application was not consented to. If that
was not a refusal, he did not know what a refusal was,
and' he must say, under the circumstances—the applica-
tion coming from the Roman Catholics—a large body of
whom constitute the population of the town, that they
were as much entitled to it as any other persons.

gious meetings in the resolution;

...
The proceedings of the general, committee were then
confirmed.

THE MARKETS COMMITTEE.
The proceedings of this committee were read.
Mr. Johnson, in moving their adoption, said, that a
sub-committee had been appointed by the general com-
mittee, to inquire fully into the management of .the
markets, and they had come to the determination of re-
. commending the appointment of a general superin-
tendent, at a salary of £3OO
move that it be confirmed. per annum, and he begged to
Mr. Kitchen rose to object to the proposition, and
said he felt surprised that the chairman had not given
more reason, or explanation, why the appointment was
necessary. They had at present a superintendent to each
Market, which cost them about £7OO, and he could not

THE NORTHERN_ TIMES, THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 3, 1850

-see-gm-necessity of the appointment, andshould therefore
move-that the subject be referred back to the committee.
Mt. Vernon seconded the amendment, urging as his
reasons, that after the statement of Mr. Jeffery as to the
state of the Water Committee's funds, and after the loss
of the dock dues, they were not in a position to make
such an outlay, which . was perfectly unnecessary, and
should 40 at once condemned; and he should therefore
second the motion, that it be referred back to the com-
mittee for reconsideration.

never brAnght forstardit spedfic
_against him that
the committee could investigate. If he had done, so, it
would at oncq been jnvestigated w and,' with those
remarks, he left the matter in the hands of the Chairman.

The Ouuncil then divided when the voting was as
follows':

For : Aldermen Bold, Parker, Cooper, Gardner,
Houghton; Councillors Woodruff, Haydock, ' Barton,
W. P. .Jeffreys, Wagstaff, Tobin, Johnson, Kitchen,
Clint, Aikin, Robertson, Farnworth, and Vernon.
Against: The Mayor' Alderman Turner ; Councillors
SheilcShimmin, Corbally; Littledale, Ryley, AvisOn;
Bownng, Graves, Ridley, Mozley, Job, Earle, Gladstone,
J. R. Jeffery, Picton, and Beckwith:
The numbers being,equal, the Mayor gave his casting
vote against the amendment,- which was 'consequentlyrejected. _ _ .

Mr. Alderman Parker also objected to the recommen-
dation, as not at all necessary.
Mr. Bowring said, as he hadthe honour of being chair-
man to that sub-committee, for the consideration. of the
appointment of this officer, he begged leave to, give a feW
of theireasons which led them to the conclusion to.appoint
a General superintendent. The especial committee ex-
amined the markets very carefully, and, they fOund there
was.no uniformity in the way the
_markets were managld,
that each superintendent was king of his own little domain,
and in .point of fact was a little despot... He was answer-
able to ne one except to the geueral Market committee,
which sat fortnightly, and the superintendent brings up
anything which may occur in his district, and there _was
no person at the present time to see that the orders 'of
the market committee were carried out by the superin-.
tendents, and the committee had practical proof ,that, the
persons who .had complaints to make to the committee,.
were prevented appearing before the committee to make
their complaint. He stated the case of an old woman
who had been thus preheated by one of the superintendents.
He joined with Mr. Vernon in his very frequent arguments
in favour of economy, and it was for economical reasons
that he would appoint an officer of this kind. The revenue
of the markets were not at all developed. It had come
under the notice of the committee that, in several depart-
ments, there could be a vast increase in the revenue.
They stumbled upon a fact accidentally, and :found that in
one small part, of the market there could be, by a re-
arrangement, a saving of nearly £5OO in St. John's
Market to the corporation.
Mr. Jeffery : Is that £5OO annually
Mr. Bowring replied in the affirmative, and said that
he held a return in his hand, given to the special committee,
which showed that one district yielded. a revenue of £l5O,
and some time ago it yielded far more than. this ; and, if
it was properly arranged, it would realise a revenue of
642. They had at that moment stalls which they could
put in places that were only used for lumber rooms.
The purposes for which these stalls would be appropriated
Would be for butcher, provision, pork, and farmers'
stalls, and they would have abundant applications
for them—every one of them would be let, and
they would get the revenue which he stated.
Such matters ought to be brought before the
market committee by the superintendent, 'and if they had
had. a general superintendent it would have been brought
before the committee. He would therefore ask the
Cotlncil if he was not looking at this upon economical
reasons. Another thing had come under the notice of the
committee, and that was, that the stalls were let at
wonderfully variable rates, although there 'was not the

-The,other recommendations of the council havinpi'been
confirmed; including the appointment of a female in St
John's Market,
The Council adjourned until Wednesday week.

ADELPHI LO4.N AND DISCOUNT COMPANY

(LIMITED)..
The annual meeting of this company was held on
Tuesday., the Ist inst., at the Head: office, Renshaw-
street, Liverpool, when there was a large attendance of
shareholders. - Mr. John Davies, chairman of the com-
ry, pa, in the chair. _ _ _

Me business was .formally commenced by the Chair-
man,, who called upon the, Secretary to read the report
and statement of accounts, of which the following is an
abstract;:—
" The directors call the attention of the shareholders to
the large increase which has taken place in the business
of the company, in connection alike with the head-office
and the various branches.. Loans have been advanced and
bills discounted, to the amount of £177,483 14s. The
total amount outstanding is 04,996 Bs. 9d. A reference
to the accompanying statement of accounts will show that
the transactions of the year have been of a very favoura-
ble character, whereby the directors. have been enabled to
add £2,110 Os. 7d. to the reserve fund, which, including £9&
53. 2d. received on account of loans previously declared bad,
now amounts to £10,470 ss. This result is mainly attribu-
table to the fact that, with the exception of a very short
period, the entire capital hai been kept fully employed.
The directors have to report .that the of of the com-
pany in every department are in a very satisfactory
state, and .that experience, has perfectly justified their
proceedings in previous years in opening branch offices
in Manchester, Birkenhead, and St. Helens. During
the past year, the directors have appropriated an
additional part of the premises in, Renshaw-street, to
business purposes, vith,a spparate entrance to Cropper-
street, - behind the head office, where an business is
transacted .in connection with -loans under 151. The
principal office is thus kept more select, and rendered
more- convenient for the transaction of the general
business of the company. The directors have declared
the usual dividend at the rate of ten per cent. per
annum, -clear of income tax."
_ _ _

least difference in these in any way. Some were let at
is 6d, and others at 7d a yard. Now, had there been a
general superintendent this "would not have taken
place; The committee could not ga after these
small matters, and there was no way of carrying them
out efficiently, except by a genersil superintendent. He
considered such an appointment would increase the reve-
nue of the markets, their comfort, and usefulness to the
town generally, and the interests of those who brought
wares to sell would be very much increased. There were
arrears, and there was no person to see that these arrears
were paid up. He was quite certain it would work effi-
ciently and satisfactory to all parties concerned.
Mr. Earle asked how much was the superintendents
of the markets now paid.
Mr. Woodruff : The superintendent of St. john's
market gets £275.

The Chairman, in moving the adoption of the report;
made. several explanatory statements, and congratulated
the shareholders on the fact, that during the term of his
chairmanship, extending over fifteen years, the affairs of
the conipany had .not been in so flourishing a,condition
as at present.
Mr. W. It. Camidge very ably seconded the motion,
and entered at great length into the financial condition
and prospects of the company, and the motion having
been supported by. Messrs. Henry Greenwood, and James
W. Bell, was carried unanimously.

The four retiring directors and the chairman were
re-elected. Messrs., H. J. Fowler and John Jones were
chosen as auditors, and, after the usual votes of thanks
were passed and acknowledged the meeting terminated.

Mr. Earle said it struck him that what Mr. Bowling
had been saying was against the superintendents. (Hear,
hear.) When they gave such a considerable salary to
the inspectors of these markets, he thought they ought to
make them do their duties before they came there to ask for
more money to pay another superintendent with. He
thought the blame lay with the committee.
Mr. Hodson thought nobody could listen to Mr.
Bowring without being
,struck with the painful picture
presented of the state of the markets. If he thought
such complaints could be remedied by appointing another
officer, he would support the appointment ; but he
considered that the blame lay with the committee in not
making the present officers do their duty, and censuring
that neglect, which ought to have been rigidly censured
on the part of those who conducted the markets.
Mr. Alderman Cooper said, Mr. Bowring had stated
that, with the present large number of superintendents,
they had no person to see to the carrying out of the
orders of the committee. It wits only required that the
market committee should see that the persons under them
performed their duty, or to have persons who would per-
form it. (Hear,' hear.) He }Aped the committee would
endeavour to make the superintendents perform their duty.
He denied that the committee would ever 'raise £5OO out
of that part of the .market alluded to by Mr. Bowring.
He had no hesitation .in telling them that they could not
do any such thing. It had been changed and tried
before, and nothing came of it.
Mr. Sheil said, Mr. Bowring had stated the case to the
Council with great clearness,. and certainly with perfect
impartiality. He had told them what Mr. Cooper
must know, or ought to know —that there was a
great difficulty in dealing with old servants. They
might as well come to the point at once. (Hear,
hear.) They had to deal with old servants, and he
would confess at once that he had not nerve enough to
dismiss a man from employment without any sort of pro-
vision, who had been upwards of twenty years in their
service. (Hear, hear.) It therefore was for the council
to decide whether they would take that course, or agree
to the recommendation of the committee. Mr. Shiel
contended that whatever might be the' defects of the
present arrangements, the arrangement of the
markets had,- upon the whole, greatly improved under
the conduct of the present committee.
Mr. Woodruff contended that nothing like the increase
of revenue which Mr. Bowring anticipated would be
received from the market. He demanded why if the
officers or any of them were not doing their duty no
complaint of it had ever been entered upon the books.
Mr. Tobin thought it would he highly. desirable, what-
ever the results of -this question might be, that the
committee should report = upon what they con-
sidered would be the necessary staff for the
working of the markets in future; because he feared that
if a superintendent should be appointed at £3OO a-year,
and a vacancy should occur in one of the other depart-
ments, it would be filled up at its present rate, under the
impression that the. Council had sanctioned that rate as a
permanent arrangement. •
Mr Beckwithdeclared that lie had, upon several oc-•
casions, pointed out the inefficiency and inattention to his
duties of Mr. Luya, and it had been proved to the
perfect satisfaction of the committee. He accused
11Ir. Luya of not attending to his duties, of asserting, as
an excuse, that he had not received orders, which were
actually found upon his order file ; and added, that he
was unable to ryo into the market and insist upon regula-
tions being folloWed out, because the tenants of the

LIVERPOOL POLICE INTELLIGENCE.

BEFORE MR. MANSFIELD,

CHARGE OF WATCH-STEALING.--Edward. Reed, the
second mate of the ship Lord Dufferin, was charged
with stealing a valuable watch. Mr. Black defended.
The evidence went to show that the prisoner, prosecutor,
and other persons went into a public-house on Waterloo-
road, and whilst drinking there son* dispute arose, and,
as the allegation was, the prisoner, during the row, took the
watch out of complainant's pocket, and ran into a cellar
or coal-hole with it. The watch was-subsequently found
there. Mr.. Black contended that there war no evidence
such as would convict the prisoner. The watch being
found in the place as described, was no proof that the
nrisoner had taken it. The very person who stated so,
might have been the very person who pnt the watch
there, and he might have put it there t avoid being
charged himself. He thought the magistrhte could only
deal with the case in one way, and that was by dis-
charging the prisoner at once. His Worship agreed with
Mr. Muck, and discharged the prisoner.

market hail some ti
did testimonial.
Mr. Gladstone

ince presented him with a splen-

aid, when he becam

a mem-

T of the markets committee, Mr. Co
'chairman. lie observed the most

T was

able ignorance of the affairs of the market upon the part
of that gentleman. (near, hear, and laughter.) In
mntters of the most trivial importance he was at 'fault.
lie could suggest no remedy, even although that remedy
might fail ; and finding that no doubt matters were
not likely to continue as they had existed—he did
as the schoolboy, who, when he found that his
companions would not play, took the hint himself and
walked away— (laughter) very shortly afterwards Mr.
Cooper left the committee. Since that time he (Mr.
Gladstone) contended that there was a vast improvement

in the mana,gement of the markets, as compared with
what it was under the reign of Mr. Cooper.

Mr. G

I have not seen it

Mr. Gladstone called upon the Mayor to protect him from
vulgar interruption. .He thought the remarks which Mr.
Cooper had made upon that subject, came with an exceed-
ingly bad grace from him, and that before he attempted to
pick holes in the conduct of others, he should first of
all have undertaken to reform himself. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. Glad Stone. then .entered into the proposal of the
committee, upon grounds of general economy and advan-
tage to the markets, and contended that it .would be of
very great advantage as a matter of economy ; that it
wotild aid in increasinc, the revenue . derived from the
markets, and would tend improve their general arrange-
ments.

Mr. Ridley rejoiced, from what be had heard Mr.
Woodruff state, that he had not been so long connected
with the markets, and said they reflected the utmost
disgrace upon those who had had the management of
them so long, and that the evils that existed should be
remedied as soon as possible.

Mr, Wm. Earle said he had been so convinced of the
necessity of the appointment, from the able argument of
Mr. Gladstone, that he should vote for it.
After a few words from Mr. Mozley, who thought the
proposition most monstrous and absurd,. and would
entail no did of expense upon the Corporation, if such
a system of appointing one officer to look over another
was pursued.
Mr. Johnson briefly replied, and, in, the course of his
remarks, said that Mr. Beckwith had made a severe attack
upon the Superintendent of St. John's Market, but had