The Express.
London, England, 1852-06-22 00:00:00

CATHOLIC YILOCESSIONS.

In answer to Mr. OROGAN,
Mr. WALPOLE said he was not aware whether thi,
proclamation had appeared in the Dublin, Gazelle, but it
might have.
BUSINESS OF TIIE HOUSE.

The CllllsiehaatofateEiCilittliiit said it wu
always with great reluctance that he touched upon the
questions of private members, but he thought, if the house
would allow the government to proceed with government
business to-morrow evening, as well as in the morning, it
would tend much to the progress of public business. He
had been looking at the notices of motion., and they were
certainly not of a very urgent character. There was a mo-
tion of the hon. member for Richmond for a select commit-
tee on the police force. Then there was a motion by the
hon. member for Westbury on the sugar trade, which
under other circumstances he should have listened with

great interest ; and there were one or two other motions
which he thought were not of that urgent character which
should at the present moment occupy their time. Though
they arranged the business with a certain day in vies.for
the settlement of all things, there were certain oecasionslike
that of last Monday night in which hon. gentlemen might
be justified in occupying the attention of the house, but
the motions to which he had referred were not of that na-
ture, and he hoped therefore that government might be
allowed to take the whole of to-morrow. (Hear.)
Mr. HUME said he had given a notice on import duties,
but he willingly gave way.
Mr. RICH said the observations ho had to make to.
MUTTON would not take fite minutes.
Lord J. RUSSELL said his hon. friend the member for
Westbury was not present, but he was quite sato he would
SF"'

Mr. V. SCULLY suggested that to expedite business
the Valuation (Ireland) Bill should be withdrawn. It in-
troduced
• new system, very few Irish members were in
town, there war notice of no less than 00 amendments, and
he himwlf had a number of amendments to propose, which
he should bring forward if thu bill was to proceed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said cer-
tainly. alter the menacing observations of the hue. gentle-
man, be should pause, but he understood that these amend-
ments were either nut opposed, or would not require dis-
cussion. They should NCO when the bill was brought on.
If two additional days weru required to paws thu bill, he
should nut mess it. But the 11011. IMMIX( fur Colchester
was not in the house, and he sliiiuld be happy to hear his
opinion, beams-, without his consent, they would hardly
be able to come to the arrangement. [[the hon. member
for Colchester had given notice fur the aboition a church

rates.l
Mr. BRIGIIT said though he took great intere,t in the
question of church rates, he should certainly uric the hon.
member for Colchester not to proceed with his motion.

THE RECENT MINUTE OF Till- COMMITTEE
OF COUNCIL ON EDUCATION.
On the order of the day for the consideration of the Con-
solidated Fund Appropriation Bill,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL called the attention of the house
to the recent minute of the committee of council on educe-
than. lie sketched the history of the educational grant from
1832, and the opposition which had been made in 1h39 to
the placing it iu the hands of the Privy Council, at which
time the present Lord Derby bad imputed every kind of
dishonourable motive to the then eel ' "stration. The
then proposed arrangement bail, however, been car- I
tied, though by small majorities ; hostility and jea•
hotly had gradually been allayed, and a &tided improve-
ment
bail been matte in popular education. More recent
changes had again been made, chiefly with a view to satisfy
the advocates of the voluntary principle ; but the church of!
England hail no reason to complain of an arrangement
which left her schools p, per cent. of the while grout, and
allowed no inspection of them withbut the 'sanction of the
archbishop of the province. Yet even this had s hated no
complainti irons dissenter.. It hail, !lawyer, been din-
tiuetly decided that in the committees of management no
absolute power over secular education was to be left in the
hands of the clergy. A certain small but very active I
potion of the clerical body had struggled fur isle power,
but a satisfactory state of things had continued until
the noble lord at present at the head of the government
came into office, and he (Lord J. Russell) owned it
appeared to him that it would have been wise, considering
thedifficulties of the first introduction ut this arrangement—
considering that the established church and the dissenting I
bodies seemed to be ,ati,died with What hail Leen done—it
seemed to him that it would have been wise, espe-
cially as the university did not bring forward these
measures to which they attached importance, to have left
this question untouched. (Cheers.) hush was not the
course taken by her Majesty's government. The appointment
of the Committee of the l'rivy Council, a very responsible
body, was not officially annuunced.—(The Chancellor of
the Exchequer: It was published in the London Gazette.)
—That was true, but it had not been laid on the table of
the house. Without knowing who were the members of
that body, he found that on the 12th of June they came to
a very important resolution. He had stated Out, at pre-
sent, if there was any difference between the committee
conducting the school and the clergyman of the parish with
respect to religious instruction, that difference had to be re-
ferred to the bishop of the diocese, who had the sole power
of deciding it; if, on the other hand, a difference arose
not relating to the religious instruction it was provided
that the Lord President of the Council should
name ono of the inspectors of the church schools,
that the bishop of the diocese should name a
clergyman to whom the difference should be referred, and
that if the two could not agree, that they should then
choose a magistrate of the comity in which the school was
situate, and who must be a layman, whose decision was to
be tinal. The impectors of the church schools were gene-
rally clergymen, so that these arbitrators would in most
cases consist of two clergymen to one layman. It appeared
to him that there could be no danger of any unfair bias
against the church being manifested in a court of appeal
thus constituted. But it appeared that the present com-
mittee of the privy council did not think that was security
enough, for they had inserted words in the new minute by
which it teacher might be dismissed on other grounds than
those of a religious character. They had inserted the words
ti mural grounds," and it was quite clear that the inser'ion
of them words placed the tahnolinester in entire dependence
on the bishop. (Cheers.) There could be nu doubt as to
that, because it must of course depend on the view which
the clergyman of the parish took of moral grounds, whether
or not he thought proper to continue the schoolmaster in
his situation. 'the words "moral grounds" were most ob-
jectionable. It would be impossible for the schoolmaster to
satisfy the clergyman, for they all knew how various
the opinions on '• moral grounds" would be. Some ch rgy-
men might of that the teacher was too lax, and that he
gave too much recteatitin to his pupils; another might
object on the opposite ground, that he was too puritanical
and strict. (Hear, hear.) There was no ground of ob-
jection to • schoolmaster which could not be said
to his a moral ground ; and therefore he must
at once feel himself dependent on the clergyman, Ile had
often stated that it was most desirable that the situation of
the schoolmaster should be raised, that he should have the
name of living by his school, and that his position should
be elevated in the view of society. (Hear, hear.) Evi-
dently the consequence of the words, "moral grounds,"
would be to lower and degrade the condition of the school-
waster. (Hear, hear.) Some gentlemen had called upon
him that day who had held a meeting on the subject, which
would have been a large one had it been fairly advertised,
and who bad told him that they all felt that their
situation was changed in COllstillICOCC of this al- ,
teration in the minute of council, and that every
clergyman would have the means of depriviug the
schoolmaster of his situation and of the meows of earning
his bread. (Hear, hear.) Ile (Lord J. Russell) thought
that was perfectly true. It was hardly to be expected
indeed that the bishop would not take the view of the cler-
heman complaining and sanction his judgment. (Hear,
ar.) This was his first objection to the minute. The
next referred to the influence of the lay members of the
local committee. It bud always appeared to him to be of
the utmost importance that they should induce laymen to
take an interest in the management of those school,
lie was fully aware how greatly the parochial
clergy of the country had directed their atten-
tion to schools both by giving money and time,
and by inquiry as to the best modes of education; but it
was equally for the interest of the chute'', as of the cause of
education, that lay men should be induced to take an inte-
rest in the schools. But if they told the lay members that a
schoolmaster with whom they were well acquainted, whose
conduct they had approved, and *hum success they had ap-
plauded, should be at once dismissed on moral groom's,
they would diminish the incentives to superintendence and
exertion on the part of the lay members, and
they would be disposed to leave the schools at
once in the hands of the c,ergy men. (Hear, hear.)
The church of England lead its points of weakness and its
points of strength. In Isis conviction its points of weakness
or danger were leas than its points of strength; but he
believed that it required the concurrence, the co-operation,
and the affection ut its laity, which were the best founda-
tions of strength and power in the. church. The effect of
the minute was to diminish the strength and to increase the
danger of the church. Its effect was to diminish the
natural disposition of the laity towiseds the church, and to
place in the hands of the clergymen, by the mere exercise
of their authority, the supreme control over the
education of the people of the country. For there
reasons, he thought the minute was very objectionable.
But while he stated that, he must add, that he did not
think its effects would be fully apparent for name time to
come. Ile had heard it stated, by a person well acquainted
with the subject, that in six or seven years, in consequeuce
of thiscommittee, the laity would be altogether excluded
from the management of the schools. He (Lord J. Russell)
doubted whether the effect would be produced so soon.
(Hear, hear.) But, at all events, it must be regarded as the
beginning, on the part of the present government—(cheers)
—.which had so lately come into power, and which owned
itself weak in that house, and which had declared that it
would in that session propose only humble and useful mea-
sures, but which had begun the session with a measure
neither humble nor useful—(laughter and cheers)—it was
the beginning of a course which, if the people of England
should give them greater power, would be pursued until a
complete alteration in the educational system bait • n
sleeted, and all the votes of parliament in its support ut
done. (Cheers.) Having been the first person who tiro
recommended to the crown that this committee of the
Privy Council should be nominated, and having supported
the system, whether in or but of office, lie trusted that be
was justified in expressing his opinion on the beginning of a
change in it; but, before he concluded his observations, he
wished to say a word to the house 114 to what had been the
custom. There would have been no inconvenience if the go-
rnment had postponed the publication of any alteration it in-
tended until the next year, mid hail out changed the general
rule upon which this grant waa voted. But no sooner was it
announced—and announced in a most important manner by
the voice of Archdeacon Denison, in the meeting of the
National Society, that the change on which lie had been
outvoted in the former year was now to be made, and that
the majority would have to bow to the authority of the go-
' veinroent—no sooner was it announced, than a general
alarm took place among its opponents. Some said that the
charter of the National Society was controverted—which
charter left it to a public meeting to choose its officers an-
, nuttily, and thus gave to the emeriti body of subscribers
an annual opinion on their conduct; some that :the
committee of the society was unfairly constituted, and that
there should be some alteration in the charter of the National
Society. Others said the Queen's letter ought not to be issued
or that, if issued, those who differed from the society should
refrain from subscribing. That was the language which
hail beet, held. It was stated, on the one hand, that dis-
trust and division had been created by the appearance of
this minute. (Cheers.) It was stated, on the other hand,
that the subscribers would continue to assist in the main-
tenance of the schools. If that were so, there would be
mine force in tee objection. But it wax not the ease. The
promoters and the subscribers maintained the schools.
%Vhat was pommel by the promoters was, that there should
be a permane ut deed, • permanent trust, settling that the
clergyman should have the power Ito had mentioned.
It might be that, ten years hence, the subscri•
hers would wish a change to be made, but the
deed or trust being permanent, they would be without the
power to alter it. Therefore it was that the local sub-
scribers at once end decidedly objected to place for all
future time the management of the schools and the educa-
tion of the country in the hands of the church. Another
observation inade nee of the: ilium, was, ditto it wets
similar to that made by the late government with regard to
the Roman catholic+. What was conceded on the latter
Unman to the funds of Emdliali catholic scLoola was, that

the bishops and priests of the Roman eatleiiie communion
should conduct the religious instruction awl should decide
for theintelves what that religious instruction should he.
That was differeut, in the first place, front what was dune in
our eehools, and, in the second place, the institution of the
church of Rnglaud was different from that of the church of
Rome. (Hear, bear.) The nature of the established
church was, that it cousin:lA not of the church id one, but
of the church and Indy combined. (Hear, hear.) That
was a point which lie thought it was melt desirable to keep
in view, and which he believed the people of this e•aintry
wou d not overlook. So long as the church of liaglana
existed, and whatever the condition of the clergymen,
that church would consist of clergy and laity, and
all questions relating to education ought to be
decided by both. lie Ind not stated his views on this emit
subject as if it were u qui stern between one party Mal atm.
tlit•r in that house. (Hear, hear.) He believed tints, were
many of the hon. gentlemen who sat opposite, end who,
whatever their poldictil opinions' agreed with him in the
opinions he was then upholding. liclieviug, as he did, that
the strength of the church consisted in iss having the sup-
port of the laity us well as of the clergy, h 2 said that the
goserument of the country ought to he most careful to set-
tling any alteration in the mode of eduction from which
an impression might go forth, and he thought that im-
pr. 'whin would go forth, that hereafter the schoolmaster in
any parish was to depend on tie will of the aini.e, r of the
without any iutertert nee being silo ced to
the laity. Ile had uniter.tood that the n ble lord et the
head of the government had stated that the grant should
not lie distritiutial according to the altered minute,
out an opportunity being allowed for its discussion in par-
liament. So far, then, there wu some security, for the
present at least ; and he hoped that, dut.eg the interval,
the mutter would be well considersil by the novel-inmost
and the people, uud ti ,t when they hail fairly and fully
considered it, they would fee how important it was tint to
disturb a system which had worked well, but that they
would maintain the principle on which tho system was
found, d. (Hear.)
Mr. WALPOLE said that the question was into of great
importance, and notwithstanding they were at the close of
the session, and the pr., sure of business, he wen glad tolled
that an opportunity had been made to bring it before the
house, as the discussion would remove: rummy illusious re-
, sowing the minute, in some of which the noble lord tvi-
, &idly participated. The noble lord did nut fully under-
, stood the nature of the minute to which he relined. The
. • ...

noble lord found fault with the government for making this
minute without previously eumiug to parliaeient,ane 'dating
that the minute was tube made before the vote for education
was taken. But the la.t words of the mode lord's speech
would clear the goverierneut from any intention of apply-
ing the grant to any other purpose than that to which par-
liament had intended it should be applied. (near, hear.)
The noble lord (the Earl of Derby) had distinctly promised,
as the noble turd (Lord J. Iluseell) had stuted, that the
grant should not he distributed this year according to the
altered minute. But the subject to which the node lord
wi-lied to call attention were the manag.•.nent clauses, or
rather the alteration, and there he (Mr. Walpole) thought
arose his illusion. Before following the noble lord in his
observations, he must be allowed to go back to a more
period,dietnot because he thought he could show that the
gust rnment was merely restoring and gis ing back to the
church what parliament Lad almiye intended it
should possets. flee first time when the grant me. made
was in 1832, when the amount was 10,000/.
It was mode to the Driti,li and Fore ign Society as tepee-
settling the non-cunlhrmists, and to the National Society so
representing the chute h. But there was no audit nor exa-
mination, except as to the state of the schools noel their
numbers, and so thiegs went on until 1339, when an alters-
faun was made by the government of which the noble lord
was so conspicuous a member, an alteration which made a
considerable stir, as on its being mace dallied that the govern.
ment intruded to transfer the control from the societies to
the Committee of the Piety Council, such seeterm was raised
as induced the cabinet to abandon the proie.sed alteration.
That proposal having been riven up, an arrangement was
effected between the Committee of Privy Couueil and the
church—and remember that he as wail as the noble
lord included the laity with the clergy in that
term. (Cheers.) In cousequence of the stir to which
he had alluded, an understanding was come to, be-
tween the Privy Council and the government, to the
effect that no further control should be exercised over the
schools of the church of I:ugh:mil than was thought UM*.
salty for the examination and inspection of the schools with
reference to the due disecisal of the money which paha-
mutt had granted. In a minute of council and subsequent
corn:swede:nee they were distinctly told there was to
be no impaction as to management or internal disci-
pline. So matters continued from 1810 until 1816;
that was to say, so long as a conservative go-
Tenement remained in power, and no eomplsint was
urged against these grants for the whole of that eeriod,
while during the same period the managers and promoters
of the schools had for the first time liberty of action to cum
duct them as they thought proper. But when the noble
lord's government came in, 11l 1846, an entire change was
made. (Hear, hear.) Not openly, by announcing it to
parliament, but by private letters, and uuostentatiously, as
it was called, was this important change effected. These
changes, or management clauses, as they were called, were
drawn up in the form of suggestions or recommendations,
but in effect were enforced iii such a manner as to become
obligations imposed on the members of the church, and
unit ss promoters of RC:110018 consented to accept those
clauses which were suegested as recommend:alum they
were not to partake of one shilling of the parliamentary
grant. That took place in 1816, and most justly the
church complained of what was done. They said in
all the correspondence between the National Society and tho
government that they ought to have a power of eelecang
one of the four clauses, so as, at all events, to have perfect
freedom in the constitution of the school, and that power
was denied them. (Hear, hear.) Such denial wad con-
trary to the agreement come to in 1840, and if the present
government had restored the power by the minute under
consideration, it was only doing an act of justice, which be
was sure would contribute, not to increase the differeeces
in the church, but, as lie believed, would effect a restora-
tion of harmony. (Ministerial cheers.) Ile hail cow gone
through the history of these clauses, for the purpose of
bringing the house to the exact defame in ielaxation which
had been made by the present gun rumen.. The noble
lord objected to these relaxatious en three grenade—first,
as degrading every schoolmaster; second, as weakening the
lay members of the committee ' • and thirdly, as separating
the clergy from the laity for the pummel' of education.
Now, what had made him (Mr. Walpole) say that the noble
lord was under an illusion was the Lying dawn of them
grounds. The noble lord said that the minute would de-
grade every schoolmaster, end separate the clergy tram the
laity s but the object of the minute, as the government ',re-
posed it, was not to substitute new management clauses for
all promoters of church schools, but situaty to say, where
precedent of church schools preened that the management
clauses should he so placed as to give the derity and laity
the power of objecting on the score of conduct as will as of
teaching, that that power should be conceded to them. That
being the seen and substance, the beginning and the end, of
the alteration, be did not see what reason the noble lord had
to complain. (Ministerial cheer's) The noble lord would
nor, he was sure, advocate anything that interfered with
free action in the matte, of education, unless tech action
took a direction in the disposal of pudic mum de-
trimental to the puhlie good. If that was so, what
was the principle upon which they were proccediag,
the plan they proposed, and the advantage they contem-
plated ? The principle woe simply that the promoters of
every school should lie at liberty to constitute those eshools
as they liked, and, having thus constituted them, Medd be
entitled to receiver a portion of the public money M the
same way as other parties. That was the whole principle
for which they contended. (Ileac, hear.) Ile agreed with
the noble lord that the management of those schools where
the state gave aid should be under the control of the state,
so as that the public money should not he employed where
it was not intended. lle agreed fully as to the propriety of
that control, and also agreed, in as ter as his cm a opinion
was concerned, in the position that the lay element should
censtitute a great part of school government; but lactate
be agreed on those points, and because his own opinion lay
in that direction, lie would not deprive another person who
I thought he could conduct a school better in a different way
of the power of coming to parliament and saying,
"I am as sincere as you in seeking to advance education,
and think lam entitled to some portion of the grant." Ii
they did net make this coueemion, they would tam, away
the inducement from many parties to found scheils ; for
persons entertained very different opinions on the subject of
management. Sonic preferred that the ley element shook"
predominate, while others thought that all should be under
Siastical superintendence. Others, again, said that,
provided the moral and religious instruction was sound and
Prime, it mattered little what were the tenets of the
teacher, or even his moral conduct. There was yet another
earty, who would say, and with equal justice, that it could
not have confidence in the teaching unless they knew the
tenets and morals of the teacher. (Bear, heard 11 • part,
took that view, he contended that, unites they e.t.d.' to
destroy freedom of action, such party was entitled to
endowment. and then what objection could exist 4,04
the minute ? But what was the policy intended to be
carried out by the relaxation of these management clauses?
It was that which of all others induced bins to think that
the alterations would be eminently advantageous and ',nee
filed ti the country. It was became he firmly Is is reel
that Meteael of increasing differences in our church. they
would tend to allay such differences, that he promoted
these relaxations. They (the government) said that since
1846 the National Society hail had deVISiOUS in its Nell,
principally owing to the restrictions impaled be the ma-
nagement clauses. In 1818 that society carried, hr large
majorities, resolutions against the government for mite dig
to those clauses. In 1819 they did the same; and in led--
he believed there was some division in the early nart of the
year—hut in the latter part of the year Lord Imnralosno
said, in answer to Lord Harrow by, that he would net ob.
pet to a committee of inquiry in the following session'
Then, in 1851, for the first time they began to etc se-
thing like satisfaction, because it watt Weal that
those members of the church who had been de-
priced of the grant were likely to have .o'oo
dune them. That woo the reaton they had carried the mi-
nute of the 12th Jut,e, and the National Society met far the
first time in perfect harmony. (Iroitieeleheere.) At
in considerable harmony, and both parties in the ,vial
might be seen heartily congratulating themselves en the
change. Ile hoped, therefore, that all rival, y would
except an emulation to excel in pronsotina the esnwlit
came of education. Ile trusted that there would be se
dent freedom of action in the constitution of the schools
and, looking at the question in all its bearings, he said that
their policy was just in itself, and lie trusted would be
beintivial to the country. Ile firmly believed that if
slowle hose the t t the nt did. WI., •
ia
the church, there never hail been ace eer lawn conth, "."
on that church, nor on the country of that churc 'Ms
the osuauzent. (Cheer.)

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. lssL•••"'""----t7,;yy denied..., it. " , that the minute would give
than of action to the church schools; but, on
• free
it would make their management more Win-
ds
Ft. GLADSTONE folly agreed in the importance of
„se. but was rather surprised at the exaggerated tune
obl'ii;e•ii-tlee importance of these claims had been diucumed.
to bon my like the story of the mountain and
• when he looked at the. result of so much alarm
es•
t6cmind notes oa the minute*. doctrine
thought that
la. male mistake in the doctrine laid down by
ta.r 12,..,1 Of State, bea-AUo it would be impossible to
doctrine of unlimited (melons of management
A •
xr.l• is el schools. (War, hear.) lle for
Ile conside one emphs.
e el from ouch a doctrine red,
• ?. a the niainittude of these changes was very 0. eon-
le•'• he thought the changes themselves
In the first plac,, he thought it very
▪ that the control 01 the clergyman should extend
s. "Islet reli.rious conducteonelly,he thought it
th,• elerolll3ll sh.iuld be endowed with the power
tll ANN. Ito the hisliop. The noble lore&
1.''...,••••.k1the distension., in the church us reason 144./11111e
, laurel tut moral grountla. Now if the noble lord
tit ,se dttfirenecs as a reason against giving eon-
grontids, he could anklet ktand him; hut
r F ui.. 'II now, bees aware that differences in re
. eio, I. el to difference* u. to joint* of timidity.
all 1, the early priod At which this important
~a 11 ei raised, it was said " You are going to glee
t01,e1114, tel religious ground.; hut who shall say
'n n''•• grounds." They were told that the de-
,. ; in a .pieston lay with the Privy Council. lie
re;.l.ee a • did, renee now, except that the power hitht rto
was estentleil to conduct. (their,
L. • dal not think because it was
Sy, pus.ible that u sehoolniatti r might be unobjee-
in hit teachiag, and yet live in scan-
-1,;-
ceu•raeliction to his own teaching. There was
• awn, nt he more approved of than that of the noble
:.;• .-teting the introduction of the laity, and no doubt
, ~. ,ittance would be valuable in large parishes where
.• 7 scri• numbers of intelligent men, but there were
of small county perishes in which there was no
I.7slealsove the rank of a labourer except the clergyman,
• such eases he thought the present relaxations would
• • kt saleable. Ile should he unwilling to say anything
the men who uuderikkok the manageorebt of schools
'i.eis e small parishes, but aimed be equally un-
....in: in such casix to lone the question of
pe schoolmaster's conduct wholly to the majority.
1%.11 came the other question of the temporary power of
,a a•iou. For the avoidance of scandal there could be
• doubt that *nth a power woo likely to be useful, but
admittisl that it was. a power which might be abused by
and he felt most fully the importance of that
had been laid down by the noble lord-the necessity
rating the charactcr of the schoolmaster; in order to
which you must give him some security for the pokition
'Put in order to do that, more must be done
, the i.e.umg of "minute.," which were in their nature
p. rimeutal and provisional. He entirely disagreed
• ale honourable baronet who had just spoken, that
• a oar of parliament was pl. dged to thew minutes.
d to what •F Why there was not a year in which
.. re not changed ie some respect or other. An alters-
twa, as he thought a wise and judicious alteration, had
b ,t, made by the government of the noble lord, in what
w...; .1 el usse P, which related to committees of VW
Mcnt. What he took tu be the case was, that by the
nt labour of the Commilee of Privy Council they
wire Leidy in the way of the development of a system whied
benefice mutt come under the deliberate consideration of
mrhament. That would be the time to deal with the
tp..stioa of schoolnanst.rs. Ile entirely agreed that if it
• necooarry that a high elaree of schoolmasters should
5e anweed, it was not desirable that they should
re at the mercy or the dictum of any individual,
sea that they ought to have some security for the holding
it ages pOitelllS; but that they could not have while they
-: dependent even on minute. of the Committee of the
Council. lie therefore thought it was cot enough to
..e 'Mit the situation co' sehoolmasten was not safe and
. are. lie granted that it was not ; but while the system
• in an experimental *tats it must be looked at as a
•• :e, and sacs stain if, for the purposes of national educe-
: •, .1 worked with sufficient efficiency. Many persons
r....tt think that the clergy had short rind narrow views,
but it Ira. undoubtedly true that, irrespective of party dif-
ferences they were as a body in earnest in the cause of
hlaeatiso. It had been *Aid that if this power of dealing
with a schoolmaster was given to the clergy, he might be
Ci•miesed. and no other appointment made, and the school
itieif he at a standstill; bat he (Mr. t-Iselstone) would say
testa II might even be better that a school should he at a
thin it should remain open under a system
st Ind education and governed by a bad master. Ile how-
to,fmJatti'osdthat the clergy were ever anxious and
keep even school., and made great efforts to do
to la 1 the objection that they would not he likely to do
re,rythina to keep open the schools was one feeble in itself,
sad eomple'.-ly snewered iu practice, fur in ninety nine
terimit of a trairlreal the clerayman was the man who had
th- mart strinet,t interest of any one in the parish that
the sehaol. diol'ol not mane. Ile aid not see any grounds
eu skirt the agnate-a as row altered could bo inipeaehed.
There might have bun some ground fur impeaching them
d the government had made any fundamental change in the
n:.cm; but he saw nothing in the nature of the minutes,
cc of the "atrium." by which they were dictated. which
s i.eatt,l any such fundamental change. He thought. on
:be ore baud, that it tlit: duty of the elate only to see
%At the pulk.ie money was pioperiy laid out ; but on the
ether be demurred to the eicietrine that the founders el*
ieboels had a claim to entire freedom of action. Looking
the mai...ions of the minutes, on their merits, he did
Si;. me that they gave any cause fa censure ; but he hoped
tat while the principle of routrol was adhered to by the
;resent or any other government, di it questions of Wail
sou:kl be considered fairly, and in a liberal spirit at such
times as they might arise, and that hon. members of that
I. aso, and esp. those who paise‘sed much influence,
•ould not bureau, ale diffieUltits which the question bad
ti encounter by eseggerating into undue importance
dungy., which, both now and hereafter, must in the if very
nature be mere Iy eaperimental
Mr. 11CM Li considered that the change which the mi•
nut, would eff et in the management C 131,4, would tend
t ..dientete th,
Mr. W. MILES was of opinion that the alteration to be
elf :fed by the initiate was just, and only regretted its
gyration was Mho delayed until newt year.
Mr. J. A. SMITII wok! the rilmate, which
Mr. I'. SCRUM described at offensive to all the lay sub-
scribers of the church schools; and, looking at the tune at
whirls it was issued, he could koniy regard it as having been
pet forward fur eleeti.,n purposes.
After • few remarks from Mr. SLANZT and Mr. Evasit,
adverse to the minute, the conversation dropped.
BUSINESS OF TIIE SESSION.

Sir J. rola he would take the opportunity of
InAiog as *oval to the Attorney-G.oiral in re.ptct to the
("vied Juries (Metropolitan Di.triet) bill, which was on
paper of that day. The hill wan .ne of very great
im-
y ranee a. %fleeting the admioktration of criminal justice.
It aandged trials by ital.'s, on the oct hand, and on the
chrr it enlarged the jurisdiction of magistrate.. He hint-
sit entertained very grave doubts with regard to the ge-
e, rd 'cop and to the detail. of the measure ; and at ell
tont. Le was .are that it would, if brought on, lead to
ozoolerable thwureion. toiler those eircumstancee, and

t csidi ring ibestat;of pUblie business, and considering
sao that the bill had not been up to the House of Lords,
be w0..1d suggest to his hon. and learned friend that it
staid b.• p.ohably judicious not to press the bill further
tt,e ~ion (llear, hoar.)
',a. Elt tatter consultation with Mr. Disraeli)
seal that he had not expected any opposition to the bill,
so• 1 that he was sati,fied it would, if passed, effect a most
napmtant i•provement en the administration of the law
sal confer ► great public benefit. But he agreed with his
rzlit hon. friend, that in the present •tote of the session,
a:, -1 considericer that the bill had not been up to the House
oi Lords, it would be hardly po.ible, if any discussion was
tar place, to proceed with the measure ; and very re.
WIWI!, the velure, lee consented to withdraw it. But he
embed it hi II•• uudcr.tood that in the next parliament he '
would take the ear.iest opportunity of reintroducing it.
Mr. 1. WILSON said that he had not been in the house
At the time the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) had
■sds• bin appeal to hon. meni'vx. who had notices on the
toper for tho next (this) day to give way to the government.
11. nor begged to say, in answer to that appeal, that be
not press his motion ; but he hoped that, as the
ties-shoo was of the highest importance and interest, the
right hon. gentleman would afford biro another opportunity
►tore the session came to an end. . . .

representations from both
"b. of the house to the effect that it was desirable that
th, ...Isaac*, of the house should be terminated as soon as
These representations were as numerous from
th who opposed as from those who agreed with him ;
therefurv, it was entirely for the convenience of the
Liam , and not (or any special convenience of the govern-
in a', that he was endeavouring to expedite matters. It
ye. under these circumstances he had appealed to hon.
t, nth men opposite ; and he thought as they ha i
imen way, that there was a prospect of concluding the ha-
...ie....4,1dt tenase by the end of this week if they pro-
,. deal in the manner which he calculated on. It would
b. quite impee.N.c fur him to make any promise of the
tout required by the his, gentleman (Mr. Wilson). The
saliieet was, a...doubt, important; and that hon. gentle-
man's view. on that subject were of importance ; and, if
Sr epportunity outlived, he would endeavour to facilitate
the hog. gentleman's objects. Ile could, however, make
au Phdlt. ; and this, he trusted, would not prevent the
bon. gentleman following the exam flu of others and defer-
:in" to the general wishes of the house. (Hear.)
The order of the day was then read.
The Consoli rated Fund (Appropriation) !till as amen led
Ins considered, and it was ordered to be read a third tiine
the, day.
Militia Ballots (Suspension) Bill, as amended, wan canei-
dertd. and ordered to be read a third time this day.
Militia Pay bill, as amended, was considered, and was
ordered to Is. read a third time this da
PATENT LAW AMENDMENT
BILL.
The lance went into committee on this bill ; and, after a
I'^'4 diva's ~,,, , the several clauses were agreed to.
flu the schedule of fees,
Mr CARTER. said the scale of fees was too high. In
the United tvati s and in Canada a patent could be. had bir
I'm. and in France for an annual sum of 41. lie should
move an ant ailment to the a ffict that the cost of patents
to about 104
Mr. HENLEY said that the patentees and inventors
generally satisfied with the ,eduction pro eased by
la bill. It the very low scale proposed by the hon. anal
*".'d ma 'lo.l' were adOpt4..l the meat worthless inven-
t' as woulil be pateuted, to the great delay and ItICOliVelll•
ItC,,,f all patentees of useful object'. Iho country was
up Z. 090/. a year (or the Beat three years ea.sio,