The Press.
London, England, 1854-03-18 00:00:00

THE PRESS.

anxiety—fear, it may be, alternately with hope. We know
that before the summer is over, perhaps even before it
comes, we may have news from the swamps of the Danube
—news of the indiscriminate slaughter of the battle-tleld—
which may strike hundreds of people in this country dumb
with agony and despair. (Hear.) Were the jokes and
stories of the noble lord becoming a time like this? The
question is one of the gravest that can be discussed by
a country or a Legislature, or undertaken by a Government ;
and the reckless levity that was displayed was, in my
opinion, discreditable in the last degree to the great and
responsible statesmen of a civilised and Christian nation.
(Itear, hear.)" _ _

Lord PAL?dERSTON : If the honourable and reverend gen-
tletnan—( loud latiyhter)—

Mr. COBDEN : I rise to order. I believe I shall not mis-
interpret the meaning of the noble lord if I say that the expres-
sion which he used was intended tobe personally offensive;
and I think I shall not be contradicted by the majority of
the honse when I say that it was flippant and undeserved.
(Hear, hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON : Well, we will not quarrel about
words. I was going to say that as the hon. gentleman has
been pleased to allude to the circumstance of my being
chairman at that dinner, and has been kind enough to ex-
press an opinion of my conduct upon that occasion, I
deem it right to inform the honourable gentleman that any
opinion lie may entertain either of me personally, or of my
conduct, private or political, is to me a matter M the most
perfect indifference—(Hear,hear)—and I do not think that
the opinion of the country, with reference to my conduct,
will be influenced by anything that the honourable gentle-
man may say. ( Hear, hear.) I treat his observations,
therefore, with the most perfect indifference and contempt.
(Hear, hear.) The honourable gentleman says he felt
great pain ou reading the proceedings that took place at
that dinner. (Ilear, hear.) No doubt that pain arose
from the manner in which the members of the Reform
Club were pleased to testify their confidence in Sir Charles
Napier, and their satisfaction at finding so distinguished a
member of his profession—happening also to be a mem-
ber of the club—selected to occupy a most important post
in a time of great public emergency. (Hear, hear.) lint
the honourable member, I dare say, would feel great pain
at any manifestation upon the part ofany body of men tend-
ing in any degree to express the opinion that arms ought in
any case to be resorted to, whatever the interests or whatever
the cause in whose behalf resort may be so had. (Hear,
hear.) I dare say the honourable member is of opinion
that this country ought to submit to any degradation rather
than have recourse to war. (Ilear, hear.) Sir, that
opinion the honourable member is perfectly justified in
maintaining ; but he stands almost singly upon this occa-
sion, with the great majority of the country against him.
(Hear, hear.) Now, Ido say, I felt very proud at being
invited by the Reform Club to preside on that occasion. I
thought it an honour conferred on me to preside at a din•
ner given in honour of Sir Charles Napier. (Hear, hear.)
The honourable member, moreover, thinks that these din-
ner questions must be Cabinet questions. ("Hear," and
a laugh.) Now, I can assure him they are open ques-
tions, and are not discussed in the Cabinet—(laughter)—
and, although I contest his speech was calculated to excite
anything but a friendly feeling, if the honourable member
will only get himself elected a member of the Reform Club
—(" He is a member already")—then I am afraid a moat
unworthy member—hut if he will only fall more into the
humour of the Reform Club, and attend the next dinner
given to a distinguished officer going upon foreign service,
I can assure him that we shall be happy to hear his speech,
and to allow him to discuss any ,question, whether of
pence or war, that he may choose; and I, at all events,
shall not think that he discredits himself by attending d
dinner given by the club to a distinguished officer, one of
its own members, before starting for foreign service.
(Cheers.)

Another start was then given to the subject by Sir
T. HERBERT, who asked whether it was true that Sir
J. Graham had used these words at the dinner in
question?—
" We, as Reformers, may be proud that the honour of the
British flag to the Enxine and the Baltic is entntated to two
such champions as Admiral Dundee and Kir Charles Napier."

Sir J. GRAHAM, after inquiring whether the question
were seriously urged, answered, without hesitation,
that the report was accurate, and he bad nothing to
retract. The important commands alluded to had
doubtless been given from no political consideration ;
but it was a matter on which Reformers might fairly
congratulate themselves that two approved cham-
pions of reform were found worthy of holding them.
Sir W. MoLEswonTn then took his turn for a retort
upon Mr. Bright :
" I had the honour to attend the dinner at the Reform
Club. I attended there as a member—one of the oldest
members—of that club. I was called on to propose the
health of the Turkish Minister—(a laugh)—nod in doing
so I expressed briefly what, in my opinion, the views of
the Government ought to be, and what they had been. I
said that we had endeavoured to the utmost of our power
to preserve peace, but that our efforts had been unsuccess-
ful—that the time for vigorous action had arrived, and
hoped that success would attend our arms. I will repeat
those sentiments in this house or anywhere else. (Hear,
hear.) And I may be permitted to say, that Ido not think
there is anything in those sentiments in opposition to any
opinion I have ever expressed. (Hear, hear.) The hon.
gentleman the member for Manchester thought proper to
accuse me of having changed my opinions since I sat on
these benches. I take the liberty of giving him a flat con-
tradiction. (Hear, hear.) I never belonged to the school
of the hon. gentleman. (Hear, hear.) I do not in any
way ackhowledge him ; and, although I recognise his
talents, I believe him to be full of Mend and narrow-
minds: (1 prejudices. ((:hers. )"

245

Mr. DISRAELI suggested that the speeches at tho
dinner under discussion might have been treated too
gravely :
" I cannot help thinking that some extenuating circum-
stances might be alleged at the present moment on the
part of the right hon. baronet (Sir .1. Oraharu 1. It is,
perhaps, possible that the right. hon. gentleman may hems)
verbally and indiscreetly interfered fbr a moment with the
exercise of the prerogative. It is possible that he may
have told Sir Charles Napier that he was at liberty to de-
clare war ; but then it is a matter of considerable notoriety
that Sir C. Napier never obeys orders—(rheers and laugh-
ter);—and therefore, taking the charitable view of the
case, when the right hon. gentleman tells Sir Charles Na-
pier that he might declare war, we may be quite confident
that he would maintain peace. (Renewed laughter and
sheers.) I think also that too much stress is laid by my
gallant friend behind me (Sir T. Herbert) on the remark
of the right hon. baronet, that he felt considerable gratifi-
cation that two powerful fleets were commanded by Re-
formers. I confess when I read that passage for the first
time I felt a slight shock. (' Hear, hear,' and a laugh.)
It seemed to me to show a partisan spirit which ought not
for a moment to enter the mind of those who would ad mi-
nister the Admiralty of this great naval country. (Hear,
hear.) But, on reflection, that objectionable passage as-
sumed a different character. No doubt it wan a subject of
congratulation that these two large fleets should be com-
manded by two sound Reformers. (A laugh.) Rut it
should be remembered that there are at this day 'sound
Reformers' and gentlemen who do not reform, and that,
therefore, we must look on these gentlemen as two Con-
servatives. (Loud laughter.) It is agreed that Reformers
of the present day are the most harmless animals going ;
and instead, therefore, of this being a partisan toast on the
part of the right hon. gentleman, 1 came at last to the con-
clusion that it was a harmless and amicable passage.
(Laughter.) There was another passage which at first
gave me some alarm; and that was the invective expressed
against the Emperor of Russia. (('beers.) Having been
just informed by the noble lord the member for London
that we were still in negotiation with that potentate ; that
we have been daily apprised that war was not declared ;
and considering that only a few days ago we were assured
by the Prime Minister that war was not inevitable ; I con-
fess I did consider that for an English minister of the
great talents and position of the right hon. gentleman to
goto this dinner and deliver an invective against the limpe-
mr of Russia was most undignified and indiscreet.
(Cheers.) But, sir, farther reflection showed that there
was much more discretion in the right hon. gentleman
than appeared on the surface, for I remember that more
than a year ago lie delivered an invective against
another Emperor. (Cheers and laughter.) I, who have
not the experience of that right hon. gentleman, committed
the grievous blunder of calling the attention of the House
of Commons to that invective. I thought the peace of
Europe was in (binge'. But the Emperor of the French
became one of the moat trustworthy and cordial allies '
that her Majesty ever yet counted. (Bastard cheers.)
Therefore I have no doubt that in using that invective
against the Emperor of Russia the right hon. gentleman
sees farther than we do, and that we shall soon count that
potentat?. as the moat cordial and fkithfnl ally of her Ma-
jesty. ( Loud cheers and laughter.)"

Mr. SPooars remarked upon the solemnity of the
struggle on which we were entering, and rerom-
mended that a day should be set apart for a national
hat.

Mr. Connzs defended the member for Manchester
in a speech of some length and acrimony, after which
the subject was allowed to drop.
THE GREEKS IN TURKEY.

The motion for a committee of ways and means
proposed on Monday night was used by Mr. MoNcx-
TON MILNES as the means for introducing the subject
of the Greek insurrection in Turkey. The hon. mem-
ber asked for the production of a "circular letter"
from Sir H. Ward to the residents in the lonian
Islands, a document already published in the news-
papers, and then proceeded to advocate the cause of
the Christian subjects of the Porte, exhorting the
Government to take care that during the coming war
those races should not suffer under severities, and
that at the end of it their rights and liberties should
be duly guaranteed.
Lord J. RUSSELL recognised the importance of the
subject alluded to, and assured the house that the
Government had not lost sight of it. He agreed
that it was our duty to do everything possible to-
wards improving the condition of the Christian sub-
jects of the Porte, who, notwithstanding the favour-
able disposition of the Sultan, had suffered great
evils, chiefly through the conduct of a licentious sol-
diery. The advice of Lord Stratford had always been
directed to the mitigation of these evils. Turkey had
already shown her readiness to improve the condi-
tion of her Christian population, and, while the Bri-
tish Ministers were anxious to discourage the Greek
insurrection, they felt sure that if that movement
succeeded, and the Turkish Christians became Rus
sian subjects, the change would prove anything but a
benefit to themselves. The immediate object of
England was to secure Turkey from Russian aggres-
sion, but the interests of the Greek inhabitants
would be respected and duly maintained.
Mr. llicn contended that the wrongs to which the
Christians in Turkey were subjected required more
active interposition, and called for a more positive
declaration on their behalf from the Government.

1111=

246

Lord Lovsisz followed a similar train of argu-
ment, quoting many passages from recently-published
works to show the extent of the oppression under
which the Greeks were suffering.
Lord D. STUART bore testimony to the tolerance of
the Porte, and the rapid improvement of all classes
and races among its subjects. Contrasting the con-
duct and policy of Russia and Turkey, he remarked
that the first move of the Czar, as the assumed pro-
tector of Christianity, had resulted in bringing war,
accompanied by its worst atrocities, upon a territory
inhabited by four millions of Christians.
Lord CLAUDE HAMILTON trusted that no British
soldiers were to be employed in putting down the
struggle for liberty among the Greeks in Turkey.
Mr. LAYARD eulogised the zeal and sincerity which
the Porte had exhibited in the cause of improve-
ment under very great difficulties. Among these dif-
ficulties he assigned the highest place to the con-
sular system, as at present worked, and the protec-
tion accorded in the Turkish dominions to the hordes
of criminals and adventurers from Malta or tbe
lonian Islands who claimed and abused the privilege
of being British subjects.
Mr. E. BALL protested against the war, which he
believed might have been stopped a year ago, and
would be unpopular a year hence.
Lord PALMERSTON submitted that the efforts of
the British Government to improve the condition of
the Turkish Christians must be tempered by discre
tion, and restrained within the limits prescribed by
a due reverence for the dignity of the Porte.
Otherwise England would but imitate the aggressive
conduct which they were so vigorously combatting on
the part of Russia. The Sultan had already done
much to place his Greek subjects on an equality with
the Mahometans, and there was no reason to doubt
his zeal in the cause. The war on which we were
entering was to be waged on behalf of great prin-
ciples. It should not be diverted or perplexed by
any exclusive attention to narrower issues.
Mr. M. GIBSON objected to any attempt at estab-
lishing an English protectorate of the Greek Chris-
tians in Turkey. Such a task it was impossible to
accomplish, and would involve the country in per-
petual and inextricable difficulties.
Sir R. PEEL urged that the Greek movement for
freedom had been in activity for many years, and that
Turkey was sinking into decrepitude. The success
of one race and the fall of the other might be delayed
by the jealous interposition of other powers, but the
result could only be postponed, not averted. Greek
independence he believed must ultimately be estab.
lished, tnd the Ottoman rule extinguished in
Europe. But in the meantime we were right in
fighting for the Mahometans, as our arms would be
directed against a still more cruel and formidable

despotism.
Mr. DRUMMOND dwelt upon the perplexities and
absurdities in which any attempt to protect the
Greek religion in Turkey must infallibly involve us.
The papers asked for were understood to be
granted, and the subject dropped without having
given rise to any substantive proposition.
ABOLITION OF OATHS.
Leave to bring in a bill substituting declarations
for the oaths now required to be taken in a variety
of legal, commercial, and professional transactions
was asked on Tuesday by Mr. APSLEY PEILArr.
The multiplicity of instances in which these solemn
formalities were at present exacted resulted, he
thought, in much irreverence and profanity, and led
to a general familiarity with perjury. He proposed to
enact aceordingly, that in all cases where conscien
tious scruples were entertained a simple affirmation
might be substituted, at the desire of the taker, who
should still remain liable to all the penalties now
assigned to the crime of pet jury, if it should be proved
that he had affirmed a falsehood.
The motion was seconded by Mr. HADFIELD.
Lord PALL ERSTON consented to the introduction of
the bill, admitting that oaths might advantageously
be dispensed witl► in many cases where they were
now required. Upon important occasions, and in
judicial proceedings, however, he considered that the
attesting formality should be maintained with the
utmost solemnity. He approved, also, of the precaution
inserted in the bill brought forward on the subject in
another house, by which it was left to certain tip-
. pointed authorities to decide upon the nature of the
alleged scruples, and determine whether effect was to
be given them.
Mr. HUME approved of the measure.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL explained the provisions
of the Government bill, which he hoped would
soon come down for consideration in that, house.
He also detailed the contrivances by which they
hoped to relieve scrupulous consciences on one hand
and baffle the attempts of intending prevaricators on
the other.
On proceeding to a division, leave was obtained to
bring in the bill by a narrow majority of one—the
numbers being 109 to 108.

THE PRESS.

THE PROPERTY OF NUNS.
Mr. 'WHITESIDE on Tuesday moved for leave to
introduce a bill designed to secure to females under
religious vows the free exercise of their rights as
regarded the disposal of property. The hun. and
learned member remarked that the law already re-
cognised the possibility of undue influence under
certain relationships, such as those between lawyer
and client, guardian and ward, dm. &c., and sought
to counteract the effect of that influence by avoiding
the conveyances of property effected by those parties.
This principle he wished to extend to persons living
under spiritual guardianship. But, instead of an-
nulling grants and conveyances made by a nun in
favour of the convent in which she was secluded,
he proposed simply to shift to the parties claiming
property under such instruments the onus of show-
ing that they had not been obtained by undue in-
fluence.
Mr. Moonn resisted the motion, arguing that the
effect of the bill would be altogether nugatory, ex-
cept in so far as it inflicted pain and inconvenience
upon the inmates of convents.
Mr. BOWYER also urged that legislation was un-
necessary. The proposed bill, he remarked, contra-
vened the recognised principles of jurisprudence,
inasmuch as it compelled parties to a suit in law to
prove a negative.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL and Mr. LUCAS offered further
arguments against the measure, which Mr. MALINS
defended.
Lord PAI.MERSTON reminded the house that a com
mittee of inquiry into the state of conventual estab-
lishments had already been agreed to, and suggested
that any actual legislation should be postponed until
the report from that committee were ready. If, how-
ever, the supporters of the bill would stay its
further progress until the house saw what came of
the committee, he would raise no objection to its
being brought in.
Mr. WHITESIDE assented to this course.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL dwelt upon the legal
working of the bill, which he thought would prove
awkward and unmanageable.
Mr. NAPIER thought legislation much called for,
but admitted that it would be better to wait for the
report from the committee.
On a division there appeared—Ayes, 68; Noes, 40 :
majority, 28. Leave was then given, and the bill
brought in.

TESTAMENTARY JURISDICTION BILL.
The second reading of this bill was moved in the
House of Lords on Tuesday by the LORD CHANCELLOR,
who expressed some surprise at the opposition it had
encountered. He admitted, nevertheless, that the
measure had been drawn up in haste, and expressed
his intention of referring it, when read the second
time, to a select committee.
Lord Baouousx commented upon various details
of the measure, and lamented the loss and injury it
would inflict on the practitioners, both advocates and
proctors, of the Pi erogative Court—men of the ut-
most integrity, who were entitled to the highest con-
sideration. He trusted that the house would see that
it would be false economy to deny fair compensation
to those gentlemen.
The Bishop of St. Asaph, the Earl of Hatrowby,
and Lord Feversham urged many objections to the
bill.
Lord Sr. LEONARD'S was favourable to the transfer
of the jurisdiction of the Prerogative Courts to
Chancery, which was not now-a-days so dilatory a
court as people seemed to fancy ; but, though he ap-
proved so far of its principle, he would not pledge
himself to support its details till he saw the state in
which it came out of the hands of the select com-
mittee. He thought it a most unwise step to bring
real estate under the operation of the act, and ex-
pressed his regret at the destruction of the practice of
a large class of men who had devoted their lives to
following this branch of the profession.
Lords WYNFORD and DONOUGHMORE also remarked
upon the injustice which the bill would occasion
among members of the legal profession.
The Lonn CHANCELLOR briefly replied, after which
the bill was read a second time, and ordered to bere-
ferred to a select committee.