The Express.
London, England, 1864-06-02 00:00:00

IMPERIAL P

ROUSE OF COMMONB.—WzDxzeDAy, Jtart 1.1

• VIE TAM ABOLITION (OXFORD) BILL.
Oa the order fee goiag into saminsitese,
After our report left mini, the debate was coatithed
by Me. Welly, Mr. Mom .thid Mr. Neste, the staple el
whim spank was a einem of the political 000duot of
Lerd R. Omit, and astheially in reference to his miring rep
miters 1 relieves with peen= ; and he made some amusing
remarks on the noble lord's tionnexiou with • recent con-
servative sisetieg at Oxford.
M Lord IL CECIL followed with • pointed and humorous
Mort, and repeated formally an opinion delivered ai
fetid, sod which Mr. Neste bad impeached, that eo the
could be a good churchman who wee nut • good cionsegen-
live. He argued in eel:manioc to the bill.
Mr. GOtiCHEN thought the hon. member for the city of
Oxford had dine good service in bringing forward the Debts
lord the member for Hereford. If it were said that the
boa. member for the city of Word bad dragged the hom-
iest iota parliament, the answer was that it was becanao
parliament had been dragged into the banquet. He thought
the declaration of the noble lord as to the identity of con-
awnatiani with good churchuiaoahip would do good
Me had seldom heard a breeder statement. But he main-
tained that on that aide of the house there were as
staunch trisects to the church as on the other. If boa.
members opposite said the church was is danger they on
thee aide took up the same cry, and mid the :hutch was a
Ammer because everything was does by hon. gentlemen
opposite to Jenatioualise the church. (No.) One of the
%mations animated with this subject was this, whether
the universities were clerical seminanse or were the
universities for the Wien. He wee willing to admit that
there should be religious odueatice at the universities es at
every other esteblimment for education, but he did act go
the length of saying that Oxford was a mare clerical mini-
nary, and he did not admit that the lay majority were to
he oaeralicad to the clerical minority. The University of
Oxford was not only fee priests but fur English gentlemen.
They had no universities in the true sense of the term,
wises Oxford and Cambridge were universities for laythia
as well as for the clergy, end therefore be did not
think they were acting for the interests of the church when
they acted in the intolerant spirit of which the noble lord
had set them the example. If Oxford would not reform
ithelf, it must be reformed from without. The principle of
the bill wae to abolish team on taking degrees ; end in the
one of offioes still to be held by churchmen to substitute
one tint for that which was now in mamma That wee
the principle of the hill, and that principle was carried
is the second reading ; and it was oumual to discuss the
principle of • bill on going into committee. They
did not wish to pees the bill in order to give • pinion of
the government of the university to the noneouformists.
Why were tem. members afraid of that ! The noble lord
the weedier for Stamford seemed to think the effect of in-
troducing member not of the church of England would be
to hand over absolutely the government of the university to
them. Why, were they in a majority ? So long en the
church of England maintained ten supremacy over the
minds and intellect of the people of England so long there
would be so danger in admitting neoconformista
into cou voeation. He could not understand why
it was not a parallel case to admitting Roman catholic',
di seaters, and others into parliameut. Though theme
sham were admitted into parliament, did they find that
parluuneet was becoming more tolerant? Why, it was the
boast of the noble lord that parliament did not terry out
tie view. of these mamas. The noble lord talked of
morbid COO/CW.OM Now he wanted to knew wee
the incieuoe of the noble lord morbid or not?
When he said " morbid conscience* " he meant
consciences which bothurable gentlemen opposite
supposed to be morbid because they objected to sign • de-
elamem. He thought it not • fair argument in than home
to apes disrespectfully of what were called morbid coo-
Sallinar. Surely that was not what was to be encouraged
la the Diversity of Oxford. Surely, above all things it
was the pursuit of truth that they should sewerage then,
and be maistained that the more they studied the doc-
trine. o: the church of England the more they would find
ibem to be true.
Mr. C. FORTFACUE said the hon, member for Brightoe
voted for the second madam of the bill, and thereby affirmed
its principle ; but he had discovered since that there was a
portion of the bill with which, as a member of the party
sating opposite, he was boned to differ. The hos. member
might neat* the difficulty by voting for going into axe-
suttee on the bill, and in committee proposing the alteration
be desired. All the hop. gentleman and those who
thought with him required might be obtained by the intro-
duction of half a dozen words. it was as • church-
man that he thanked his houourable friend for giving
them an opeareinity of getting rid of as othozious
subscription to the satire body of theological doctrines
sontained in the 0061000 P111101.4)00ii on taking the
ad master of arts. It was monstrous to reqpire yeasts ire
y-
men to subscribe ex 11111D110 to every one of tee controversial
electrum contained in the formularies of the church. It
was bed enough to require clergymen of the church of Eric
land to subscribe to them. Nothing but hereditary habit
wild have so blinded the eyes and hardened the hearts
and of acieaces of honourable gentlemen opposite
es to eneble them to endure it so long. The
movement now going 00, of which this debate was only
as episode, had sot arisen from any indifference to religion,
but from an increase of tenderness of conscience, and trout
the growth of religious thought, which made it unpoesible
for men to swallow, as a mere form, those religious propo
skims wince our fOreembers honestly took without thiak-
iag about the matter. It was upon them grounds, and as a
ehurchuem, that he supported the bill.
Mr. HENLEY said that the hon. gentleman opposite
(Mr. Fortescuel said over and over again, that he spoke se
churchman, and yet declared that it would be &great dram
lege to be relieved from the bondage of the Prayer-hook
and the articles if the church. (Haar, hear.) This was •
grange contradiction, coming from • man of "mature age;
but so it was. The boo. member for Huddersfield laid the
bill did not go far enough ; the hon. member for the city of
Oxford thought that the governing body of the university
ought to take testa ; mid then the hon. member for the
City of London said be would have to such compromise,
sad that he thought coufarmista and tionconfortrime ought
equally to be members of the governing body of the tini-
flashy. How woe than coollicting differences to be re-
sonciled He was not careened that those who had charge
1 the bill would net tonsent to a compromise, because they
knew that the majority of their supporters only looked epos
the bill as an instalment, and would tall from them if it were
made a harmless meanly. He thought that the governing
body of the university ought to be secured in the bawls of
the church. (Hear, hear.) He could Dot conceive any more
efreeto .1 way of bringing about no religious teaching at ell
than to have contlicti elements iotroduced auto the
governing body who regulited the studies at the uoiversity.
Nor ware they without experience in this matter. No
people could be more wedded to religious education than
formerly were the people in the North American
colonies, but religions thirstiness came in, and in • few
years religions educatios was given up altogether
thine colonies. He should be sorry to have •
bead ii bringing about such a resultin this country, to which
be believed it would be a great curse. He should therefore
support the mottos for out making any further progress with
the bill. (Hear. hear.)
Sir G. GREY thought that the noble lord the member
for Samford bed fully theinated his character for plain
'peeking without expueang himself to the charge of reticence
in his °pinkies. He had publicly announced that no man
could he • good churchman or an Warned member of the
church who did not share his political opinions. (Laughter.)
He (Sir G. Grey) could not be supposed to agree in that
sentalueut of the noble lord, but their differene•
warned in this—that they totally dissented from each
ether as to what cesetituted a good churchman. He thought
that a churchman most showed hie attachment to the
church who was prepared to make coacesaions in • just end
liberal spirit, in order to remove the poetical (nevem:se
impeded on persons beyond the pale of the church, without
at the same time impairing its stability and maintenance.
He bad voted for the second reading of the bill, sad for the
same reasons be felt bowed to vote for gong into committee.
The principle on which the right boo. geaCeman who had
just sat down opposed the wood reading wee that it would
sever the connexion betwese the church of Eng-
land and the university, by admitting into the go-
verning body persons uoconeected with the church,
and he mid if that were not the principle of the
bill he would have the greatest besitatith in
prang it. In his (Sir George Grey's) opinion that was not
the principle of the bill, and he so expressly stated on the
sewed reading, and added that it was competent for
those who apprehended such • danger to introduce amend-
ments iuto the bill in committee. He had stated to his
bon. friend that he would do wisely in not pressing the bill
in its present form upon the house, and had suggested to
him that he should consent to such modifications in the
memare as would secure the practical benefit desired, and
at the same time remove the apprehensions of those who
wished the governing body of the univerity to he still main.
Mined in coonexioe with the church. He agreed with
the hon. members for the city of .Oxford and the city of
London that there were some privileges exercised by mem-
bens of convocation which, not affecting the governing body
of the nuiversity, might be safely and usefully exenmed by
pagan not linen:hers of the church of England. He would
be glad to consider in committee any amendmeote with •
view to remove the apprehension which had been ex-
pressed, and with that explanation he was quite prepared to
vote for ;meg into committee. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. NEW DEGATE said that since the mooed reading of
the bill it had been represeated to him that the test of boot
fide churchmeoship which the bill proposed to substitute
for laymen would be far stronger than the one which now
existed. At present bet Majesty was the temporal head of
the church of England and the kirk of Scothutd. OD the
ground that their wisterias of faith was the same. The
members of the kirk of Scotland who could subscribe to the
articles of the church of England were sow admitted mem-
ben of the governing body of the University of Oxford, and
would lenient their etched= from that body ; but If We
tart of boat tide eburelunaoship were introduced it would
involve, be wa. informed by those who bad carefully ex-
amined main the subject, an adhesion to the discipline, as
well ae to the doetrithe of the church of &gland, and would
therein exclude the whole members of the kirk of Scotland,
of which her Majesty was as mock the temporal head as
the was of the church of England, and which was as muck
identifini with the state as that church. (Hear, hear.) This
the an ill intestine of the danger of these loose retinal re-
gelatiorts. He resisted the bill, in the thin place, Wears it
would open the door to laxity of opinion in the reversing
body of the great seminary of the church of England ; sad to