The Express.
London, England, 1852-04-27 00:00:00

Y y'..

itW
akid • by her Majesty's government.
Mr. B. said that es he understood the gees-
ties
i e
ils 5A1th...1.,„,..i...thaey were
part of :;,oew met to
peace i,ldiscussibhm the'
i
of thisieenntre hon. gentlemen who opposed the
preempt bill saminid that the present state of our defences
, was arentishatary and that some addition was necessary.
' But Ohne, like the right hon. gentleman who had just
spoken, took higher grounds, and denied the necessity of
say such teenage. They said that there was no
fear of external danger, end that a militia was
as TO force. He, on the contrary, looked
upmairelis essentially a peace measure. (Hear, heir)
The right hon. gentlemen said that all their former militia
bills were formed in OM a war; but if he (Mr. Herbert)
recollected rightly, the right hon. gentleman was mistaken
Is that respect Mie ant militia bill of 1780 was not passed
La war, but at the osousweeement of peace, and at the con-
clusion of the Americo& war—Omar, hand—and the act of
Cleo. 111., to which he se ellen Wined, was not passed
during war, but at tks aciedegien of war in 1902, pens
having Wise giant he 1801. They bed too much of
hostile angles, add toe much assamplism of hostile inten-
tion. (Hean,
_kw.) Ile believed list those assumptions
11 1.110 1111121111.0111 esti extremely Weakling, because every
*atlas was the best judge of Its owe sena (Hear.) lie
believed that peat evil had been canoed is a neighbouring
coastry by these criticisms. It was the benne= of the
of that country to decide what form of government
vend support and tolerate, and he saw so reason to
Ctil
des that they were satisfied with their present
pition, and with the person who filled the highest
eller these. (Hear, hear.) With regard to diplomacy, he
slashed more importance to it. The government of
the sesatry wag responsible for the safety of the country,
eel they would be_Justly condemned and punished if they
did net vide sufficiently for its security. (Hear.) Now
he hard two successive governments, who were the best
,jes In this matter, saying that a militia was necessary,
ma that beteg the ease he was not willing to take upon
Isiensiethe responsibility of refusing assent to the appeal
whin they wade. (Hear, hear.) No one could deny that
the 'anodes of steam made the possibility of invasion
wake. Wore that, with a west wind blowing for
thisminarters of a year in this country—(much laughter)—
the observation was, perhaps, unfortunate at the present
time, when an east wind hail been blowing for near a quo- ,
ter of the year, but as three-quarters of the year were to
pass by, his observation might still prove correct. (Rear, ,
Year .) But before the invention of steam, and with a west
triad generally preuiling here, the inhabitants of the
gout might sleep in secunty and in peace. He was dia. I
posed to believe that their navy was never more efficient
this ft was now. But the navy of Franco, which was neat
to their own in strength, was more concentrated, and
k check be recollected that there were greater facilities for
k=
ng troops from oae point to another. The ports,
lee which a French force might be expected to sail
inn less distant from the coast of England than the
glean along the coast, where our troops were disposed,
were distant from each other. Now, supposing that the
first and safest line of defence—their navy—was broken
throngh,they most consider what force they had to meet an
enemy landed on the shores of this country. The hon.
member for Montrose had moved for a return, which
showed that the numbers of troops on full pay was 61,000,
and 7,000 artillery. But the number of men on full pay
did not convey a correct idea of the available forces, for
there were a great many to be deducted from that amount.
What the hon. member should have moved for was the
number of rank and file, and not the number on full
pay. (lieu, hear.) There were 16,000 pensioners, of
whom only 0,000 or 10,000 - -in Ens' - ' There w•-•

.. with whom we woe On friendly terms? ''
Were they _..ly 9,000 or 10,t.... were in England. .e were
constantly to have these stupid inaeadoes thrown out for 14,000 volunteer yeomanry ; marines ashore 6,000, but in
the purpose of outing alarm? (Hear, hear.) What ease of a war they would be marines afloat, so that they
should we think if, us the aerate of same friendly country, would not be available on land. Then there was the coast-
persons were always kariting nefarious designs and intro- guard ; but in the event of a war they would be more than
tions to us ? He was ennvineed that it would create any- ever required to protect the revenue. He did not believe
thing but (deadliness, aid would rather foster feelings of that a man of the dock-yard battalions could be spared
retaliation. We always did understand a great deal more from the ships' sides in time of war. The Irish constabu-
about what was good for France than they did themselves; buy, amounting to 10,000, would bo required in Ireland,
and we always knew better what was going on in that mutt. for Ireland might be used by an enemy to make a diversion;
kg Om the 36 inHilemsof the French people did themselves. and the metropolitan police, consisting of 7,000, would
It was Irks certain that the less we meddled with their probably remain at their beats in London. (Laughter.)
lentituthme said dlseeneed sad expatiated on the forms of There was no mention made in the return of the rural
rivernoisag WWI he the French people, the better it police, the gamekeepers, and the gentlemen who had
/would be Ike lame "morally. (Hear, hear.) What licenses to shoot, but they were just as available
was our reithe in 1803, when everybody knew that as those whom ho had just mentioned. (Hear, hear.)
• war was inevitable—for every one felt that the He would now state the available force which they did
of Makes would be of short duration. In thou really possess. He deducted from the 67,000 men on fell
emdtement, at the opening of that year, the pay 2'2,000 men who were in Ireland, and who would be
Es of
lbrus et all arms employed in Greet . Britain only required in that country more especially in case of hostility.
amemiled to 60,674—infantry, cavalry, and artillery, That left 45,000, from whom there was a further reduction
The neglit ambusador had been insulted in Paris ; to be made of one•seventh on account of casualties, duet,
he bad returned to England; the whole community knew teens, recruits, servants, &e. This left 38,500. He must
that war was inevitable; and yet it was not till a week next deduct 5,000 for the Channel Islands and the hone
after Lord Whitworth left Pans' and when the war was artillery, which left 29,000. Add pensioner, 8,300, which
esnain, that a bill wwasintroduced into the House of Corn- would give a force of 37,300 men. But then he must deduct
mew by the Secretary at War for calling out the regular the men required for the defence of their ports and arsenals,
militia. The bill quickly passed through ell its stages; and Dover, 2,000, which was less than the number stated as
• Inset military movement began throughout the country. requisite by the Duke of Wellington; Plymouth, 5,000 ;
(Saw, bear.) We did very well then • but where was the Portsmouth, 5,000; Pembroke, 3,000; for the Thames,
nersessity . for dealing with our military defences in the Sheerness' Chatham, Woolwich, Deptford, Purflect, and
gene spirit as they were dealt with at that eventful period ? Tilburg, 10,000. Thus there were 25,000 to be deducted
Show the people of England that this country was in from t e 37,000, which left 12,000 infantry of the line.
danger, and he wound undertake to say, they (Hear, hear.) Add the cavalry and horse artillery, and
would do as they had done before—that they would give they had 17,227 regular, which was the real disposable
the executive the means of maintaining the independence and available force of the country. (Hear, hear.) And it
of the country, and that there would be no reluctance in was not to be supposed that this was a picked force, ready
providing the forces necessary for the safety of the country. to march in any direction, for it was made up of the depots
But the people of England knew there was • danger of both at home and abroad, and composed of men called
another kind, which had never been mentioned in these together, but not accustomed to act together. (Hear,
debates. Admitting that invasions end wars a ere possible, hear.) The noble lord said that he would have no ob-
there was another possibility ;if they gave the executive a jeetion to an embodied militia of 10,000 men. Now,
larger disposable military power than the circumstances of there were objections to a militia, and there were ob-
the country required, who knew what might be the tone jections to a standing army, but be must say that the
assumed by that executive in its foreign relations?
.(Hear, plan which the noble lord would sanction combined all the
hear.) Give the executive the power of garrisoning the objections to both the others. There were some of the
United Kingdom with a militia force and who knew, when members of that house—and some, too, who held economi-
gdt that m k.d some 30,000 or 40,000 disposable cal views—who preferred an increase of the regular army
whom they could send here or there campaigning, to the enrolment of a militia. He must confess that this
wears lbw Webs not assume a tone in dealing with proposal of a militia seemed to change the views of these
kellais orierelse that might bring about the very gentlemen with respect to the standing army. (Hear.)
wet we were so anxious to avoid? (Hear, hear.) The lie regretted that the bill was not a consolidating bill,
&erg le thus suggested was shown to be reasonable, be- because he thought it would be of the greatest advantage to
came ese hod taken the coarse of interference in former have all the militia acts reduced to one. (Hear, hear.)
times. AM, history, and experience showed that it was There were some other points which he thought objection.
dawns to entrust the executive of England with too able; but as they were matters of detail he would not dis-
hrag • military power; and these were no facts or cape- cuss them on that occasion. It might be an improvement
rhemile show that, without cause, England had ever been to substitute the ballot system. By not asking for too
segielleed by a sudden invasion from some friendly power. many m nin the first instance he thought they might get
Alla% lam) it was extremely doubtful how this policy the force required almost invariably by volunteering.
stems might be viewed by foreign nations. He entirely (Hear, hear.) The experience of 18®, 1810, 1811,
egged with the late Homo Secretary in considering a 1812, and 1830, showed that • militia might be
regular militia an offensive force. Three or four years ago, raised by bounty, tad with success. (Hear, bear.)
he was at Cherbourg; it was during the time of the pro- Without giving any opinion as to the details of the
videlliel goverment in France ess b =greatest bill, he thought that on the principle of it a militia wasthe
dimity in pmeneding alt am wee not best means of creating that peace establishment which was
likelsiosainteedree with the OF rod r- elastic enough to adapt it to circumstances of necessity, and
treigke• the . .) he, therefore, gave this measure his hearty support. He
Miad his 1111 pepsine TM ) and looked upon it as an insurance upon property, upon in-
ked sash ashherie la Or :at that he dusky, upon honour, upon everything that constituted the
duelled IA 11111 OM MOW* . AM/ were national welfare, and if they were not willing to pay for it
11111110111. all, or the great sopority of bet taken they did not deserve their national blessings. They had
*sat* etellegkesee, and the 61. WOW, aeke their already advertised their fears, and having so done if they
111.111111 WI. ("aear,"sedlanghter.) Be the gene- fell hack without making an attempt to remedy the evil
eon% mien spirit of the noble lord— (a lamOlbut he could which they themselves had proclaimed they would be
see guise aphstige pith bin. if this were free, what was guilty of treason to the state. (Cheers.)
the use of being so pertlmiktrebest the Mutiny Act ? The Mr. STANFORD said he should support the bill brought
army might be allowed te MA mime themselves for two forward as it was by a government in which he had great
or throe menthe, after bet filleted and taken the confidence.
air
oaths. No doubt flak of patriotism would bring Mr. H. BERKELEY objected, on social and moral
them all back. Ohm bow.) But how account for the grounds, to calling out the militia. Ile thought the volunteers
statement of theism, smisher for West Kent, of 800 dater- ought to be encouraged, and drilled in the use of the modern
tions from one IMO eiolmsat ? (Hear, hear.) If these rifle, and he thought that the yeomanry should be enrolled
men would 'tea the ebb of the severepuntshment of the as rflemen.
martial law to get away from their service, was it to be sup- Sir C. BURRELL supported the bill.
pond that they would make their appearance when Mr. ROEBUCK felt bound to express his opinion
wetted ? Dor/e4uten pen, the theeeters from the army, on this important subject, and he felt it the more Incumbent
with eh the Iberfel consequent lemeglig over them, had on him to do so, because two points had been raised, one
been se it.. then 63,000 saes. Many might enter the militia of which still remained unsettled. The first point was—
with a good resolve to come again ; but after undergoing was there any necessity for warlike preparations at the
the tedious and vexatious process of discipline, It was very potent moment ; and next, if there were such necessity,
doubtful whether they would not be absent when they what was the best method of meeting it? On the first
were wanted. To rely on their coming again was not wise. point these was a great uncertainty of opinion among poll-
it• member of the Peace Society had said this, be would ticians. The noble lord the member fer London had been
havebeeu told he was a dreamer, &Utopian, and had too much of that opinion—(conservative cheers)—gentlemen opposite
in the people. (Hear.) lie doubted whether, in now entertained it. He understood immediate necessity to
In onanansing districts, they would get the bounty men. mean that the state of affairs abroad was such as to render
N. rem dill gimp was to become of • man's family ? immediate steps necessary for the national defence. That
ee there any revision for maintaining them while he being the ease, the noble lord, the member for London,
megreted his employment to go a soldiering, or would had prepared his militia bill, and having left office another
they be thrown on the pour rate—an addition to the bill had been prepared by his successor, and then he (Mr.
esolgence
already greatly complained of burdens upon land ? (Hear, Roebuck) found the noble lord modifying his original opi.
hear.) If this forcible military conscription were sane- nion, end, holding that the necessity was not immediate.
honed, pressing in the navy might be justified, in order to Ile must complain of the veiled manner in which this ques-
give men a short opportunity of learning nautical practice. lion was discussed. lie wanted to know what did the
However justifiable this might be in war, it could not be generally admitted necessity arise from ? When men talked
so at a time when it was said that all our foreign together privately they came to ode conclusion and by one
relations were pacific. Not a single fact could be road. There was only people of whom they spoke,
alleged as a reason fur making such preparations. (Hear.) and only one man at whom they pointed. Franco
Anything more crude, more unsuited to the present day, was the nation, and the man was her president. (Hear,
Aim the provisions of the 42 Geo. lII.' cap. 90, could not hear.) Let them recollect that it was the mere seize-
be conceived. The publicans and beershop.keepers ought dent of Villeneuve not being bold enough to cross the Chan-
t° be considered; for he had not heard that new barracks nel that prevented Bonaparte's landing in England. That
were to be built for this militia. Was it not a grievance was a point which was not to be dealt with lightly. There
that they. should have these 80,000 men forced upon them, were 60,000 men which Bonaparte found he could put en
at goat Inconvenience, and be obliged to supply them with board his flotilla with facility, but he hail not the Channel
provisions at less than their cast ? In every way the for 24 hour.. If he had, he would have landed. But stip-
measure was an injustice to the publicans and livery peeing him to contemplate the landing now steam would
stable keepers; it was demoralising to the young men give him ample time (or his purpose. Gentlemen might
who would bo taken from their employment ; and preach peace doctrines, hut was be to take no precautions
however it might be suited fur the less advance
days against being knocked down end robbed in the street ?
of George 111., it was by no means adapted to the days (Hear, hear.) Ile believed, then, that there was danger,
of Queen Victoria (Hear, hear.) Reference had been and that it ought to be provided for; but ho did not
medic to the American militia ; but the right hon. Secretary agree with the noble lord the member for London
for the Colonies was mistaken as to the militia law of that that a militia was tho best mode. The best mode
country. It was nothing but a muster of the able-bodied would he, in his opinion, first to make our own army and
inhabitants; there was no ballot—practically, no compel. navy properly available. Ile believed we had a large per-
sem ; for no one need go who could pay an inconsiderable tion of our navy cruising in the Mediterranean, and he
fine-75 cents. Their militia was only a muster for asked what did they there ? It was sod that France wished
three, and nut consecutive, days in the year—one in to make it a French hike ; but what interest had England
spring, ono in the middle of the year, and one in lin keeping up such armament ? Why, if England was in
autumn, so as to interfere least with the general hue. ' danger, was not the great mass of our naval force in the
new of the country. Any one who was earning more Channel ? (Hear, hear.) Again, he wanted to know why
than he thought it worth while to sacrifice, might, by were our colonies so governed as to require large military
paying a very small line, avoid going altogether. lit the estehlishments ? When those two questions were answered,
sic New England states, this militia had been positively I he wanted to know what would be the hetet mode of meeting
laughed out of existence, and could hardly be said to exist at I immediate danger. lie believed that fighting was like any
all. Es en the army of the United States was only 9,000 men, ; other trade, best performed by those who were bred to it ;
spread over that itameme milli/teat from California to; therefore if additional foree were required, he would prefer an
Maine. A native of the United States said that though lie ' increase in the regular army, rather than a militia.
hail lived there many years, and travelled in almost all • lie should prefer a skeleton of an army of 10,000 or 12,000
I parts of the country he Itiel neveneen 'soldier in the United , men, which with volunteers might soon be made up to the
States uniform, and could not tell what it was. (Laughter) I necessary number. Again, why not accept the services of
Ile did not believe the militia there had any uniform. the ride corps, which would have given 100,000 men.
Ile hoped this measure might be defeated, and, as he did ^ (Hear, hear.) l'hose who had come forward were mm
not oi.ls to be misunderstood, in the present position of 1 with their own rifles, and of that claw which could most
this country, and in the present state of their relations with safely he trusted. These with skeleton regiment' might
foreign elates, lie del not think that it was necessary to add easily be enlarged to an imposing force in the event of any
et all to our piesent military force, and, if it were, the manifestation from France. These were his reasons for
Wt mode which he should he willing to adopt was the plan ' opposing the bill. Ile believed in the existence of danger,

but be did net think the bill offered the prol-7—..---"'er sart
defence.
Mr. WALPOLE said that two objections had been made
to his measure—one faintly and the other boldly, hut nei-
ther quite fairly. In the first place, the necessity for such a
measure aa this had been denied ; and secondly, it was con-
tended that, assuming the necessity, this was nut the mode
nor the present the time in which the object could be 111.1 t CU.
rind out. It was proved in the first place, by even the admis-
sion of the gallant general who opposed this hill, that, in tne
opinion of the highest naval and military authorities, sums
measures should ire taken to improve the defences of the
country. Secondly, it was proved by the acts of a succes-
sion of administrations, who, as soon as the duty n
cup
upon them of providing , for the defence of the coutry,
had seen that, in order to ensure its probetion, mgag fast_
ther measures should be adopted ; and thirdly, it was peeved
by the circumstance which had been more than one,
alluded to by the noble lord the member for Tiverton
namely, the discovery of 'deem, and its application to
navigation, by which the means of incursion, it not of att.
vision, were brought far more within the range of phi.
bility than before ; and the consequence was, that no navy,
however powerful and numerous, alone, and without the
co-operation of tend forces, was able to protect the country
against invasion, and the hon. and learned tenth man the
member for Sheffield admitted that that was the case.
Those were the reasons by which the necessity of some
measures of defence was proved. But it had been said by
the hon. and gallant general who move.' the amendment
that that necessity could be met either by the redistriti.
thin or the concentration of our present force in this country,
or else by withdrawing some of our troopittinnt the coteries.
That was the argument by which this necessity was met,
lie (Mr. Walpole) owned that he was swells: d that an
officer of experience should advance such an opinion,
although he should not have been surprised if a civilian had
put 60,000 men upon paper, and then talked of trusting t,
them to defend the country against an equal French force.
But the hon. and gallant general knew wall that in such an
emergency you could not denude !rebind of Imolai any more
than you could this country, and that you were Masud to
protect bath. Twenty thousand men must remain in De-
land ; and with regard to the coast guard, as had been said
that evening by the rielit hon. nticmen the member for
Wiltshire, they must be employed to protect the revenue
in time of war u well an in peace.
Sir D) L. SFASS was understood to dissent.
_ _ .

Mr. WALPOLE—If the hon. 1014 :!:,11ant Uitiell had aot
said so, the hon. gentleman, the moonier for kielamond,
who seconded the =ointment, hail. 'f hen with regard to
the 10,000 dockyard battalions, they also must lee kept foe
R
the defence of the establishments towhich they belonged,
and ter which they were embodied. Ile (Mr. Welpeo,
therefore, maintained that the statement he had made in
proposing the bill was not exaggerated, and it would be
nua :Ty ew.
argument
Westminster,
rrh-
duiTt a
The
urged
seen, by any gentleman who would take the trouble to go
through the figures as carefully as he had done, that he had
e member ratheroa
wedhywmitht n'toel"remla'nda,
hotnh.e amount,and
feil
ote colonies.
fe
torrth,,etph extremities
trdee,h.smfo:
nmni
ceiee: sf
of wbttyehb ani
withdrawal;
motpy
ui
na
di,
clds.
would not be able to get together 2.5,000 ler the defence of
e
e
or
the
socyhroi
rou:yr
nonf ur et
:hot
cruf
alr oudt
emon,:ot hot
fended any more than you could its centre. lle had now
proved that it could not be met either by the redistribUtiaea
of our forces from the colonies. Something had been said
in the course of the debate with regard to the best way of
meeting such dangers being by eneourasi . ine and promoting
commerce and the ar s of peace. They were all for peace
if it could be had, hut lie agreed with the bun. and learned
member for Sheltie Id, that the best way to maintain peace
was to be prepared for war, and there was no ether way by
which it could be maintained. Assuming the neces-
sity of defence as proved, as had been said in the mune
of the evening by the right hon. gentleman, tl.e member
fur Coventry, what were the best means by which that was
to be provided for. Several means had been suggested.
Some hon. members had suggested a large ince, am of tbo
navy, others had spoken of an increase of the army. The
hon. gentleman, the member for Richmond, had suggested
a large addition to the force of pensioners. An hon. and
gallant general had proposed the adoption of volunteer
corps, and the noble lord the member fer London desired
that recourse should be had to the local militia. With re-
gard to the increase of the navy.
Mr. ROEBUCK was understood to say he only 'poke of
lan increase of the army.
Mr. WALPOLE—If the question of an increase of the
navy was left out of consideration, he would go on to that
of an increase of the army. That arsument had been an•
swered over and over again in the teem of the debate.
Suppose the government hail proposed en addition of
2U,000 men to the army. (Ilear, hear.) What would ham
been said ? It would have been said—here is Co unecadi-
tutienal ministry—hem are people who propose to increase
the array, who desire to assert a military poiser in the coun-
try. (Hear. hear.) That was the way in which they
would have bcen met, and the argument that the army
ought to be increased had only heea used because it era
thought that it might amid in defeating the bill. There were
two objections to that course which in his (Mr. Walpole'l
mind were unanswerable. If we went on inereosiog the
army, other nations would do the tame, and so they would
all go on increasing their forces to an extent which would
seriously circumscribe the resources of the country. (Hear
hear.) The second objection, and it 19.4/4 one which had
been often urged in the debate, was that the (louse of Com-
mons would not permit for mauy rare the existence of a
large army unless it resold he shown that such an army was
really wanted, and was required for • permanent purpose,
and not as in the cast of r. militia, to meet an emergency
which perhaps might never come. Those were the grounds on
which he (It Walpole) justified the establishment ofa mi-
litia in preference to an increase of the army. 'l'hen,woth re-
gard to the next point, namely, a large incenses
of armed pensioners. In England there were about
43,000 pensioners. But what was their age ? Many
of them load become pensioners in consequence of bodily
infirmity or from wounds, and whet was the average aged
the men on which they w, re rooked to rely, and the forte
which they composed, and which they were asked to in-
crease ? Why, out of 43,000 pensioners there were not
mow more than 1,860 who were under the age of forty-six ;
the greatest number were above that age, while of those
who were above seventy there were 4,850. (Hear,
hear.) The next point which had been urged
was the encouragement of volunteer corps Now, the
great object to be attained was a force which could he per-
manently relied on, and they ought to be able to secure a
body of men ou whom they could reckon for the whole time
for which they enlisted, otherwise they would not be
trained and disciplined. Now, volunteers would be a fluc-
tuating body, and they could nut be reckoned on Mr a par-
ticular period, as they might at any time give up the sere
vice. No doubt they might be relied on so long es their
enthusiasm and patriotism were roused toya SCJI4C of
Immediate danger; but when that sense of danger owed
away, the necessity for volunteering passed away with it,
and therefore such a body could not be relied on. It was
always a popular topic to talk of the spirit and courage of
the people, and that it could be relied on if an enemy were
lamde this country. But every one would remember
the words of the Duke of Wellington, in his celebrated
letter, when he said, "We hear much of the 'mint anti
i courage of the people of England, and I have the highest
respect for it; but while unorienniei•d, undisciplined, and
not subject to subordination, if they were opposed to
the muskets and sabres of disciplined troops, they
would only be exposed, although animated be the
highest spirit and courage, to confusion and destruction."
He (Mr. Walpole) now approached the laic proposition he
had mentioned, that of the noble lord the member for Lou-
don, who had urged his own plan, that of a local militia.
The noble lord must forgive him if he said that he bad
coloured his own plan too highly, and thrown their- too
much into the shade. The noble lord said that the plan of
the government was oppressive and snore, but his was net;
that by theirs the men would not be well diacipliueol, while
by his they would; that by hie plan men of spirit and
courage, and of moral energy, would be procured, while by
theirs only vagabonds would he obtained, who would take
the bounty and not be forthcoming when they were re-
quired. He (Mr. Walpole) should he sorry to do away with
Any impression which that statement might have male, but
lie thought it would not be borne out by a comparison
of the two measures. By the plan of the nooble
l n 1
every man vras subject to the ballot unless volunteers
offered who were caught by the bribe of three years' ser-
vice, instead of four. By the plan of the government there
was to be no ballet, at least in the first instance, and the en-
rolment was to be purely voluntary. The Ilion, the newt*.
of the noble lord in that respect seas the more severe of the
two. Again, by the noble lord's plan, the men were to be
drawn, a limited number in the first year between the ages
of 18 and 23, and in the succeeding years between 21 cad
23. By the plan of the government, if they got to tho
ballot, which he (Mr. Walpole) did not believe they ever
would, they were drawn tor a period extending from IS
yearn old to 33. Little reasoning was necessary to show that
pressure on a small moue VMS more resent than whea
spread over a greater one. (Cheers.) Then with nod
to their di,cipline. lie was astonished when he heard the
noble lord hazard that assertion. He (Mr. Wahoolo) had
referred to Hansard, end he found that his recellectien of
the noble lonl's stoitement on a former occasion was correct.
According to the noble lord's plan, the men were to be
drilled for 28 days in the first year, and for 14 days in the
following years. By the plan of the government, the
ordinary period of training was to be 21 days, but a Incas
was given, if necessary, to extend it to seven weeks, bat
there was also another power, by which if so lone a
training was not found necessary or there was a demand for
labour or any such cause it might he reduced to only them
days. Ile thought, therefore, that the discipline under the
government plan was likely to be as good as under that of
the noble lord. With regard to the coursge, spirit, and
moral energy of the men raised under the plan of the neblo
lord, and the vagabond characte r of those who would be
raised by thnt of the government, he should heeled to Imow
how the noble lord proposed by his plan to get only me:I.!!
courage, spirit, and moral energy. The plan of the nolos
lord was that of resting by lot, and the lot might ea the
weak as well as the strong, on the immoral as well 94 4b:
moral—(hear, hear)—and what guarantee there was the.
by means of the ballot men of high courage, of metal
principle, would be secured, he (Mr. Wellt`.)
could not conceive. But by the plan 01 .e.
government, hold and enterprising men would be Ms tam
likely to offer themselves; and if proper guards and loess-
tions were provided with regard to their taking the beauty,
they were not so likely to cheat as those who wen men
east for by lot. it had been said over and over again
ha
course of the dehete; as will as ontsiole the wall.
house, that you would be throwing away a/. or.:;,
.D%
t•
men would came and take it, and when it woe epee.''''
decamp, and that there would be no eccuriii diet
.h„,c3:
would appear when they were required for %4 as V.. I,
who made those etatements ought to read the bill. li
did so, they would tind that bounty was to he g."

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Isomers under conditions end reguladme estmerialeaded
tor°
the Secretary-at-War, that their cams and ratieeass
by
to be registered with the deputy lieurmate of
" mai hiewenle4 to the Clerked the ream Thar
watt—.
isrpee.Wee wee to peamilr the seek he ethhh the
&ere
bigaties wow to be peld. whether they were as be lueisid
ra.t.=.ll
as ether they wen to be pail by gawk
erwal I all that wee lett to the eseselhe so-
wiwllloss• Ile hoped that he bad dispossessed the aids
at heiweeellia isallserws of the baronies whirl
to fie orrearr that the revaewereat
alliggethrwl to thew the bowels Isle the Mahe
of awn mercenaries who weld weellei< wag tMtsmp
Bat he thought it eat a ideillea ea the }sigh el Sestearl
to 'uproot. that Ike Min twa I teelpt the forme) of 41.
esoll for the 'myna of geksi away Si Nee other
oniony. (Hero, hem.) la die ISOM a • Weak
after the measure had boa breve* thrtemil he bed fe-
wet a comninniesties ken the adjateet of the Bata
Wit* SLAWS Hat 711 voluntrien had drimidy gems kW-
aied die his 'stye, awl that he believed the regimes's
ook' be tilled in • fertalght, while the mime espeelntises
I 1
entertained in SIIMO of the other millawl etwatiee.
Ile believed if this bill Maw law, biased of the ballot
print adopted, it would not be neecaary to have ressisres 10
it, and even if the number of men was net Sled up I. the
sird jeer, a resort to the ballot was not eistrikery, bet • I
permissive power was given to the Qom Y Maned
to adopt it, and it was not a ormitser=
soon of the bill that it sheet&
1 wive only one other observation (sendnuil On right
putkosa.i) to make. It has bees said by the right lea.
path-en in, the member fur Mantibrater (Mr. (Jibe*, that
this" not the proper time to Wes forward suali a 1011.
But what would have been said to we, bad we failed to have
introduced • bill like this, sad had say waterloo* ttar
ncil to the country,? (Cheers.) Why inn WM been un-
happily
declined, you would have tlla ed us, end_ree
woo4l have justly blamed us, and you would hare said, it
is not improbable, You, the ministers, deserve limper&
ment.'• (Loud cheers.) You have no right, May
to 01 us that this is not the time for sash
a !.,Ii Hear, hear," and cheers.) 1 will dory yea
s remit why this is the best time; and in waking ad ft I
must refer to the observances of the how. peeing& the
member for Liverpool (Mr. Cardwell). I des nest Mils
agree with the hon. gentleman to the full extent to
he went in his argument on this point—that immediately,
if the Rouge of Ce mimeos refused to pas this law we would
of ricceloity have to put the old militia law into operation,
under the system of the ballot,with all its rigours. But I say
thrt it immediately an emergency arose in which it wee
necessary that we should add largely to the 'military forms
of the country, why, then, the government of this country,
whatever it might be—whether it was ourselves or the
noble lord—would be bound, in the esercue of the power
which they posse.., to pot aside the suspending set, and to
revive the old militia laws of George 111., in order that we
might at once obtain a sufficient number of men to defend
the country. (Loud cheers.) Well, then, Isey this is
not an oppressive law. It is • mitigating law. This lan-
guage in mitigation runs through it from the section
to the last. I will defy you to finds single severe or hash
clause. Every clause is a mitigating clause in reference to
the acts on which the bill is based. (Loud cheers.) Well,
then, if that be so, I now leave this mesons with some
degree of confidence to the judgment of the house and to
the opinion. of the country. (Unit cheering) I think
I have shown that there is a necessity for some
increase to your national defences. I believe I have
proved to you that the other measures which have been
propoud or suggested are nut so good, are not near so good,
as that which we have laid before you. And I am confi-
dent you will find, if you reject this measure, that there
would be an occasion on which, in the absence of such is
measure, we would have to put the old militia laws in force
with all the • rigour and severity of the ballot ;
while, it you accept it improve it if you can
in eonimittee that you will be mitigating and
ameliorating the rigour of your militia system, in-
stead of enforcing the old system upon the people
—because, by your legislation, you are proceeding upon
this principle—voluntary enlistments and voluntary ser-
vice. ins!,-ad of the forced conscription, which, otherwise,
in some contingency you would be compelled to have re-
course to. (Toe right hon. gentleman resumed his seat
amid prolonged applause from the miniaterialtste.)
Sir D. L. EVANS (who was very indistinctly beard in
the contusion of applause and preparation for the division)
was understood to say that, in the present temper of the
house, he would take another opportunity of explaining I
several points upon which there was some misconception in
reference to the course he had taken.
The house then divided, the galleries being closed for
nearly half. au hour.
For the government
Against 166
Majority for government
The announcement of the numbers was hailed with deaf-
ening cheers by the ministerial party.
The Commons Inclosure Act Estonian Bill paned
through committee.
The Passengers Act Amendment Bill as amended was
considered.
The Secretory of Bankrupt's Offits Abolition Bill passed
through committee. _

" *hi