The Express.
London, England, 1862-03-04 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 4, 1862.

'nicotine in the Illegal Artillery, whether there was any
tetenteei, hy increasing the facilities for the retirement of
old wheels. oi luerreeieg aloe the facilities of promotion, 40d
*heti. .r ti tree granti of winter clothing given no liber.illv
to iegiihent. recently sent out to tAliala had been e‘t•iiide.i
to the regiments sent there during the summer, and eden to
the regiments who were there is the ottlinary course!

Sir G. C. LEWIS said be was not aware whether env
east% allowance et warm clothing hail been sent out to the
troops who went to Canada last summer and previowily, but
without having time he could not answer the question in

INDIAN ARMY.
On the order of the day for going into committee of
ou;WIY,
mr. H. B,\ I LLIE called attention to the want of system
which preyed* in relieving` her Majesty's troops serving in
India and the colooke. He pointed out that the abolition
of the army. and the increase of the royal army front
W,OOO km *4WO men, had changed the nature of the ser-
vice of the royal army, and affected seriously the system
of reliefs. which operated so se to make the queen's forces
almost local troops, without any of the advantages which
formerly attached to the local service.
Sir C. WWI) said that when the amalgamation of the
Indian army wee under 000sideratioa, the government had
carefully coosidered the number of battalions that would be
required to allow a proper system of reliefs to be intro-
duoed. That question bad come under the dimities of
the Duke of Cambridge, Lord Herbert, and himself ; and
they bad also consulted various military authorities on the
subject. It was quite true that cases had arisen—though
not very recent! —in which regiment, had been kept abroad
for period. near y approaching twenty years • but the plan
which the military authorities wished to introduce was that
each regiment should serve tear years abroad and five
at honie. That was of course exclusive of the
Guards, and also the cavalry, which seldom required
to be sent abroad. The scheme originally drawn
out had been altered to the extent of three or four bat-
taliose, but those alterations were in favour of the troops
staying at home, for it appeared that rather fewer battalimis
were required in India ilea had bees expected. Their plan
was that there should be 56 battalions in ludic, and 38 in the
colonies. making • total of 94 ; and that there should be 47,
or half that number, at hams The total number of Wee,
I Boss in the service would tiles be 141. Latterly there had
bees rather an extraordinary demand for troops in varions
parts of the world—ia New Zerslood, in randy, and at
tlibraltir : but there were sow, or rather would be, when
a regimeet (which was now oo its voyage) arrived io Eng-
land, 14, battalions in lodia, 45 is the coke: vies, and 40 at
boom. When the extraordivary demand for men abroad
ceased be hoped that the plan would be carried out in its
integrity ; but as it was, he believed that there had never
been a nearer approach to that great desideratum, ten years
service abroad and five at hoses than there was at the pre-
sent moment. (Hear.)
INDIAN FINANCFS.
Sir 11. WILLOUGHBY, having a:peered au opinion
that it would have been desirable to retain •local force in
India in order to lessen the pressure upon her Majesty's
army, proceeded to move "That it is the opinion of this house
that all moseys required on account of the raising, training,
Ac., officers and men for service in India, and all other ex-
penses connected therewith, shall be voted is this house in
a separate estimate ; and that all such moneys shall be re.
paid into the British exchequer by the Indian government."
Sir 0. C. LEWIS said he did not at all dispute the right
of the lion. baronet to bring forward this motion on going
into committee of supply upon the estimates for this year.
But he thought the house would see that it could have no
bearing on the estimates then upon the table ;
because, in order to give effect to the motion,
the present estimated must be withdrawn and
entirely recast, and considerable delay must occur on
account of the double operatiou. Therefore, whatever im-
portance the motion might have, it must be considered as
limited exclusively to some future period. But if the
government had adopted the course which the hon.
baronet recommended, he (Sir G. Lewin) should have ex-
pected to hear him protest against a system so anomalous and
complex. and call upon the government to adopt the course
which had been followed in these estimates, because the
fact was unquestionable that the course hitherto adopted
had been imperfect and anomalous. There was a charge of
1.10,000/. for the noneffective services, which was paid into
the Exckequer, both the moo-elective services being in-
cluded in the vote. On the other heed, with regard to
the effective services, and the holism depute is this
country. matters were arranged between the Indian go-
vsronieet and the War Department : the War Department
incurred the expense and kept a separate account. Them
accounts were promoted to the Lydian government, and the
*epees« were paid, but oo tram of that transaction ap-
peared in the army estimates. In fact, it was • mistake
to say that sow for the first time the ways sod
mesas wen called upon to advance the money; the
mosey was jag as much advanced out of the ways
and mesas before. The only diffusers was that
there wee a tranasction between ladle and the Wir-
elike of which the house had no cognisance. This, there-
fore, was not a retrograde change ; it was • decided
immovament. The whole expenses now incurred by
this country and paid out of English taxation, in the
first indiums appeared upon the votes, and they made aa
estimate of the repayment by tie Loden government.
This dad been arrived at upon a fixed and simple process
dahlias of being liquidated according to the number of
men in the lie au establishment. There had never been
any dispute between the lodise and the home goveromeut
as to the amount. It seemed to him that the matter wee
sow placed on a mast simple and intelligible principle, of
which the house coold have no mama to oomplaio. The
course which had bees takes wee precisely opposite to that
which had Imes &scribed by the hoe. baronet. What, he
(Sir O. Lewis) asked, was meant by the amalgamation of
the English sad lodise armies? It meant that
the army is India should farm • branch of
the European army ; sad if the two armies
were amalgamated why should not the accounts be
also: So far as the expellees of this country were con-
cerned, the outlay with regard to lodes ought to appear in
our Waroveke estimates. (Hear, hear.) He could out ad-
mit that there was the slightest advantage in the course
recommended by the hon. baronet. But even if it were
desirable that the two estimates should be laid upon the
table separately, it wee • question whether such a course
would he practicable. So tar as he (Sir G. C. Lewis) was
able to judge from inquiry, the wit of man could not devise
a clear principle upon which the estimates could be cake-
latest separately with /mythic's' like accuracy. Under these
circueistatices, he hoped the house would not agree to the
resolution.
The resolution was supported by Colonel STW, sad
I by Mr. Avirroe.
oppose
HENLEY asked whether, when the home aims to

J'
withe..........
Mr. W. BEAUMONT salted the First Cornmeal/oar a vote . .
the me., ii.d imam fir the mr,i. of the rt.,. thh
Works. whether. with the view ei relieving the !medial I mans of gte.Sti,R. mid have I. be provided for. If er,, anMath of Park Ulm. thole would be any obietti" to UP", 1 equivalent Writhe would be net upon the British tax-
illiblesb bete," SteohoPellote sailAPalerltate ier I parer; d met. what was theme of placing the sum in the
the pomp of cabs while the I theroatioual Ethibitaos is I e.t.d....a bew wee it to be got back again ?
epos. li was alrawdY e° crowded The CHANCELLOR at the EXCHEQUER explained
Yr. ("W PER "id HYd'elew the details of the old system, pointing out its defects and
with larriatred oe ordinary Onotsbulte that when the great, in. the edreategee of the tow and improved system. The
11.1" "Wits's" *athirst' which we. to be expected when I arrangement would operate so that this country would
the Exlistotiois opened, taxurreal, he thought his bum friend practically be under no advaptea. Payment' would be
weld see that there wee souse reason to doubt Wh'lbUr tiliklo at very short intervals, and repaid, in the same
thepublic iwwwwWeece would 'welly be "ma"' by "'owing tieanc.oil year. into the exchequer on secouot of the mu-
_,_
___,,wwwalle te,;_,Pe",.,thiww‘b,____lbe park. The._ road rat cellaueons revenue. The payment' would come back into
rbC
P"P"`""thecees "'""'"'Y been widened '''''' as gm' a that branch of the revenue as quickly as the sums went out
utast as the trees sear it would allow, and it woe not pus- from the war deportment.
sable to widen it farther. At the present moment it was i Further discussion and explanations followed.
iiiitru"t to furrow what aminiut of vehicles would pith
The house then divided, and the numbers wars—
through Park-hoe, sad be thought it would be a wise course
to postpoee any declaim en the matter till they had 60100 For Sir H. Willoughby's motion Mt
sapethrace of the dins*m which the traffic would take. Against it
CAVALRY UNIFORMS. The motion was thaesqesetly het.
General PEEL called shoehoe to the want of control on
C•VailaYlTAcrocou °skid the ti"creterY of btatef"War the hat of the House of Commons over the military and
why the grd, 4th. 13th, sad 14th late Light la/avow were naval expenditure. He was not prepared to undertake the
shamed oho Hamra. sod whether there was any thtfer• respousibility of reducing estimate. produced on the
saes is the weight it their sprinotilients. Ako, if the deliberate judgment of the government, and there could
'ace" hail or would messes any ci"nlwthit" i° wit's"' be no more decided vote of want of coutiderou in a ministry
queered the exposes they bad been put to by the change than the reduction of ruts which they deem necessary for
it sodurin. and if the men of those relate/tots had or the eery'ce of the country.
The bulk of the increase of
would receive any theilicawiti" in lieu of thew out the expenditure of military estimates was the result of re.
clothing. ' solutions of that house which could not be carried out with-
Sir G. C. LEWIS said the alteration to which the hoe. . out additional expense. But he would have the audit
gentleman referred wan made in coneequence of a ran of expenditure always examined by a committee of the
eatimeadatiort of a commission composed of cavalry oM...vra. house, who would ascertain whether the expenditure and
The alterations coosisted mainly of twerertiog four reel- : ...,
the estionse. ware in unison, what trthafers there were
menu of Light Driapions into Hussars. The &Iteration in from one breech of votes to another, and that there was no
the unif.rin was trilling, and time would be given to allow excess ; &nil all this should not be done two years after the
tla- e -istiug clothing to be worn out before the new %Holum, expenditure had taken place, but as shortly after it had
w.. ...lota. d. The mine course would be adopted with re- taken oar. as „sable.
pot to the "Muer.. It was nut UMW to allow imiapeusiation , Mr. W. WILLIAMS commented on the army estimates
when tune was given. ' and their extent, which he declared to be quite iacompre-
TIIE LOCAL INDIAN ARMY. heusible to him; and expressed his belief that they could
f donel t: I LOIN asked the Secretary of Mats for India if only be Nestled on on expectation of war.
be ...mid I.v mom the table the report of the amismissauuers After some observations from Lord R. MONTAGU,
she VI. re a...ailed its lodta to consider upon what tonna Sir G. LEWIS observed that the speech of his hon.
ottveis of toe leidau army, fur whom no active employment friend (Mr. Williams)l.'o" have beeaade")tate°, "Ir re'
amid le finol, should he permitted to retire; and also the served till to-morrow, wino the question of colonies ex-
dri-ion of the home coveroment in referees* to the recoil,- Pandit"' would be debated on the motion of the /thili'
sueniLthin it such c. 1111 l nmsoomers 7 member for Taunton (Mr. A. Mills). As to what had
,-,, iv. WI NH) sail be did nut think it aceirehie to 10 fallen from the right hon. gentleman (Genera Peel), it
the report ou the table. The commission was appointed by appeared to him (Sar G. Lewis) that the check of the house
tue baba. government, which thinipprovol of the roooni aPeo the um! and nary eatimates was as nearly Perfect al
..,E..t..t,00t of the commiaion. The Indian 'mvernment possible. The speech of the right boo. gentleman hail been
pe.is"...l a smaller retirenient, sod that propo:6l was that a Port of epilogue to the report of the Committee on Public
all he itenant.colonels, all major, and tatAnlite enough to Money., the greet object of which had been to assimilate
make up :OM should be ellorld to retire ou Very favourable the practice regarding the civil service estimates to that of
term-. The cumber of officers who bad accepted that pro. the army and wavy. That practice was this—unless the
poath ea. IL!' lieuumant.colonels, $3 majors, and ;1U eap. money voted for any particular object was expended within
tams. and they but roam° to suppose that the full number the year, the power to expend it ceased. For example, if
of .00 would accept retirement on the conditions offered. the house voted 100,000/. for a barrack, and it was not 51-
A. to the prornotmoe knit the Vernieeins f..... 1111 by the re- ',ended helms the Ist of April, the power of the War Dec
to sweat of imutesanteolosels would lie holed up by pro- partment to spend it was gone, and the money would have
soothes. sad the whole of the majors sod celibates. tole vottimun. Of course it was necessary that the
hlota INOX -- May I ask the right lona. gentleman house grant money upon estimates, but
w arrorwt...e• sill be by seniority? ; when the year bad elapsed, and all the pil-
lar C. W Ht—All promotions in the lodian army are meats had bees made, they became accounts, and could
by elowwity. then be audited. The noble lord said that the primmest
THE ITALIAN MINISTRY. 1 had been guilty of a breach of its promise tore
Mr. ELENA HID semi the noble lord at the bead of the committee to examine the accounts ; but it weeartej a
an.
_,_,;__ a_ bad receiecd ieformattee that lion of his right hon. friend (the Chancellor of the Is-
ahmarha:r7o47..t..l o.,Signor Helmut had chequer) to inure the resppointment of that oommittes.
Imo rat ler to form as inheinastrstiou! and the audited account' could then be referred to it.
mist bete (Hear, hear.) The right hes. gentleman seemed to think
memiLaell rieihni.AILMEItj:CTI.
t)hm:4-11.9.11er Mattganuiesir's Onr I
laniard hie ! that some payments had hese made for services in China in
eselpeties, that it had bees Mitigied, um tam 84., ha. excels of the votes of this hoses ; but he (Sir G. Lewis) be-
two had boom eumuilasiolsad ID loitm sa administratme. tiered that no executive goverment ever made payments
is stone of the rotes—fa fast, they would be liable
CLOTHING OF THE TROOPS LY CANADA. to impeachment if they tild. It was pomade
wer y. rum us( ,N eat.) the Segairary for War whether that some regiments on the Imams establishment might
bit situate bad lowa rolled to She :egoistical relative to have awed in China ; that pommel Ikea might have some

out of the Indian treasury, mid thus that the relayroent to war with America, 20,000,000/. would have been now
might have cone out of the vote on the 'exeunt of China; required. The committee ought to protest against admire
but en English regiment could have been paid without the of such portentous magnitude. They hail now 150,000
maturity of parliement. lie held it utterly impossible that volunteers reedy for service, and still they were asked to
such could bays been the ere ; and lie ventured to say that vote 145,4410 men. lf any hon. member of greeter expel i-
ou further inquiry it would be found that the statement rice would move a reduction of 10,000 men he would second
mated upon mere delusion. The bouse might rest satisfied the motion. (" Hear, hear," and cries of " Move, move,"
that no executive government, of whatever party, would from the opposition side of the house.) Well, then, he
knowingly make any payment in excess of the votes. Of begged to move it. It was not the first time that he had
course, there might be wasteful expenditure when opera- received encouragement from hon. and gallant members
Lions took place at a distance and beyond the control of par. opposite to go into the lobby, and he Dow gave them an
lament. He was afraid, in fact, that no government, opportunity of dividing with him. He would move that
whether in this country or any other, had the number of men be reduced by 10.000.
yet been able to find means of preventing um Col. NORTH irked the hon. member from what part of
due expense wider such circumstances. He would appeal the army he would take these amen! (Cries of " Order.")
to anyone that knew what operations in the field were to , The committee then divided, when there appeared:
say whether it was possible to exercise soy very strung cou- For the amendment
trol over the expenoliture which they ent•ded. (Hear.) Against it
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY believed the right hon. gentle- I The vote was then agreed to.
man wee in readerable error ea to the impossibility of On the vote of 5,355,506/. for pay and money allowances
troops being employed without the ooguirece of parliament. for land fosses,
It would be found that during the Chimer war a regiment : Major KNOX said that in moving that the vote be ro-
bed been employed through the agency of the commeruist chard by 1,0341. 144. 7d., the amount of pay and allow.
chest. ' aces to the general commanding the brigade of Guards iu
Sir G. LEWIS thought that the hon. baronet must be London, he had no intention of attacking the Guards, but,
referring to native Indian troops. on the contrary, believed that the real enemies of that
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY —Prea I rely. force were those who opposed • similar motion last year,
The SPEAKER then interposed, and the subject dropped. I when the vote was only earned* by three in a small house.
TROOPS FOR CANADA. I This appointment was first created to make a plaoe for a noble
Mr. D. GRIFFITH begged to ask the First Lord of the lord who bad just:returned from the Crimea. (Hear.) It
Treasury whothsr the Governor-General of Canada, ee well! was held by him for five years, and as long as the five years
as the commander-inchief of the forces there, did not lasted nothing was said about it, but on their termination
apply to the government last summer to send out a body of the matter was broached in the bore, and a strong feeling
troops to Canada considerably larger than that which was : evinced in regard to it. The noble lord at the head of the
actually sent at that time ; and if en, why they did not inure government said the reason for having • major-general to
fully comply with that requisition ? I command the Guards was that it produced unity of com-
bo. F. BARING said he wished to nuke a suggestion to I mend, instead of that command being bandied about from
his right bon. friend below hire. With regard to the navy one officer to another. The storage pat of the matter,
sad army estimates he thought the home had perfect cps. however, was, that while be received major-general's pay,
trot over them, if it chose to exert it ; but if he (Sir F. the major-general, who was at Aldershott, only received !mi-
liaria') wished to prove the disposition of the house to con- gadier-general's pay. An hon. and gallant general (General
trol the expenditure, they had only to look around at the Upton) hail said that, as far as the discipline of the Guards
state of the benches. (Hear, hear.) (There were only was °Gummed, such an officer was not required. and that
about twenty-five boa. members present.) He had no they got on quite as well before as after the appointment.
doubt it was the intention of his right hon. friend the General TIFTON admitted retaining the opinion that
Chancellor of the Exchequer to move the reappointment the office was not necessary for the discipline of the Chars;
this session of the Committee on Public Mousy.. His som. but when the appointment was first made persons high it
gestion was that that committee should meet early, authority said it was for the purpose of relieving the
and thus give the members an opportunity of being able adjutant-general's office from • variety. of blueness. That
inure easily to get through a dry and laborious task. And was his justification for not voting against the cautiousness
if the gallant general thought the house had not sufficient of the command, because be thought the country might be
control over the expenditure, he hoped the Chancellor of very well served by this new o cer, if they extended to
the Exchequer would appoint him • member of the coin, him farther duties, of which, be was creditably informed,
cadre. (Hear, hear.) the adjutant-general's office would be happy to be relieved.
Lord PALMERSTON—In reply to the question put tome After a few words ham Mr. W. WILLIAM!,
by the hon. member opposite, I have to confirm what he Sir G. C. LEWIS said the creation of the office had
stated, namely, that the reinforcements which her Majesty's really been described as a job to provide as appointment for
government thought it right to send to the North AMeribill • noble lord who had formerly been in the
provinces in the course of last summer were reenacted by Guards ; but Lord Rokeby was not now brigadier-general
hon. gentlemen on the other side of the house as useless, of the Guards The appointment was at present bald by
injurious, and improvident, and that they ought never Genteel Crawford; an if it had been simply greard for
to have been sent. 1 believe that opinion is not sow very math Lord Rokeby, he presumed it would have been aledithed
entertained. It was the wish of her Majesty. government when he vacated the office. (Oh, oh.) At ail IMMO
at the time to rod a larger number, but so far from that the question was whether there existed any politic ground
large number having been irked for by the colonial authw for the appointment. He had no reason AO believe AIMS it
lira, it was in consequence of representations made by the bed been created far individual. The military agliseri.
colonial authorities that the sending of that larger number ties of the day became aware of the defective orgarrien
wee for the time suspended. Therefore it was not at all of the Guards, and this office was then rested for suffrage
owing to want of foresight on the part of her Majesty's reasons, to remedy that evil. The Guards were never before
government that the larger number was not sent at the inspected, except by regimentel or battalion dB-
time. But as it happened, I believe, it was rather forth- ars, sad it was thought advisable to give an
nate that a larger number was not seat at that time. because unity of character to the force by having
I think that those who have writhed the program; of late an officer to inspect them as a whole, and be believed that
ever. mast have seen that the ergo and rapidity the change had produced a great improvement. Under the
with which a very large force was despatched to Canada. in old system the Ourls were inspected by an officer called
the middle of winter, in spite of all the difficulties attend. the field officer of brigade in waiting. That office was held
ing mach a proceeding—that the promptitude, vigour, and for • month by ten different officers in succession, and it
power displayed by this country—tended iery greatly to the was in order to put an end to this alternation
peaceful solution of the difficulty which roes between us of duty that the officer in question had been appointed.
and the United States. (Hear, ear.) This was a matter essentially of military discipline, and one
Lord W. GRAHAM said, that teat year, in committee on on which he did not pretend to form an opinion, but he
the army estimates, he called the attention of the house to took the opinion of those more competent to judge than
the difficulty there was in finding the sum total of the vote himself, end he was sure that the new system had been one
required for any particular colony. He begged to thank the which bad been very beneficial to the discipline of the
right hon. baronet for the change that bad been made in this Guards. He trusted therefore that the committee would
respect. He begged to suggest to the right hon. baronet not be led away by the arguments of the hon. and gallant
that he would make the estimates still more satisfactory gentleman who had made this motion.
if he were to give under each head the component items of General LINDSAY thought that this was en improved
each sum total. If be would give the component item. organisatios. At the earns time, he could not agree with
under the same page, he (Lord W. Graham) thought the the Secretary for War in all that he bad said. Being per-
estimates would be still more easily understood. featly arrant of the whole system of the discipline of the
Sir G. C. LEWIS said that it had been in his considers. Garda, he must say that the discipline of that body was
than whether under each colony the amount should be given, in such a date as not to require a general officer to be put
distributed through the various particulars which made up over them. He trusted that the committee would agree
the army estimates. But the items in many cases were so to this vote.
small that the house would be rather perplexed AMID is. Colonel GILPIN said be thought it would have been
formed ; and the real question of importance was to better if the command had been extended to the whole of
give the warn total for each colony. Of course the noble the London district. It did extend to other regiments ba-
ked could have the information he desired, if the house sides the Guards, as this officer bad command over a line
wished it, is • supplemental estimate. ratient, the 31st, which was in the Tower.
PALMERSTON said be thought the hon. and
SUPPLY.—THE ARMY ESTIMATES. gallant colonel misunderstood his right bon. friend if he
The House the. went into Committee of Supply. Mr. imagined that he spoke disparagingly of the discipline of the
MAMMY in the chair. Guards. Everybody. knew that there was no body of troops
Sir 0. C. LEWIS brought forward the army estimates. more distinguished in action, and mom efficient in their
He dated that the charge for the army this year wee services at home, than the dear of Guards. They were
15,302,8701., sad with the militia 16,250,0001., forming the most exemplary in every respect; but there was certainly
largest item of the expenditure of the country. There had the defect, if lie might so call it, that there was not that
been a great increase in these estimates of late years, and unity of system which was requisite for the efficiency of
his object would be to explain the reason. The right hon. the corps, and which bad been accomplished by the appoint-
baronet, going back to 1789, the first year of the French taut of the officer in question, and which had made an
revolution, sand the military charge of the country did not improvement in that which was excellent before. He should
then exceed three millions, but in the following year we hope, therefore, that the committee would not agree to the
entered into the war with France, the result of which was motion of the hon. and gallant gentleman.
that in 1819 the charge for the peace establishment WAS The committee then divided :
over ten millions. It remained at nearly that For the amendment
amount till 18a2.3, when the charge was something over Against it ll5-50
nine millions. The deficiencies in our military system The vote was then agreed to
brought out by the Crimean war had been the main cause 706,8021. miscellaneous charges.
of the increase in the number of the men this year, 145,450, Mr. WHITE asked whether the men had any share in the
and a charge of 15,302,8701.; both wars, therefore, had the Increase of 7,0001. under the head of field allowances.
effect of adding greatly to the present expenditure on the Sir G. 0. LEWIS aid they were allowances made under
army. The right ha. gentleman then pointed out that the authority of • royal warrant to officers moving in the
' the change in the political institutions of Frames, by which field.
the ideas of the empire were revived, notwithstaoffing the Sir J. FERGUSON drew the right hon. baronet's Wen-
' undoubted pacific policy of the present Emperor Boa to the stoppers under which the troop already in
terards England, had also operated on the on. Credit had been pieced for their winter clothing. The first
erase of military expenditure, kept up in aot ear of it varied from U. 18.. to 21. to. ; towards which the
irweste and for the preservation of pare. In the present government coutributed 30a., with se. a year for keeping it
eslimates its extent was more apparent than real, as its is order. Those allowances were obviously too little, the
simennt was reducible by several items of repayment from, se. hardly sufficing to keep the winter boots in good order.
the Indian government, amounting to nearly a million; and, The men sent out in the winter had been very liberally
Mother proper deductions, the sum to be voted, and dealt with, and he hoped . that those who had been
y asked, was 14,000,0001., which was Ira than that despatched in the autumn might be treated in the same
et last year by about 636,0001. Of the army there were in manner.
the United Kingdom, 89,r-fa ; in Europe, 9,000 ;in Asia, Sir C. LEWIS promised to make inquiry into the matter.
8,185; in Africa, 9,332 ; America, 24,389 ; Australia, The vote was then agreed to.
12,004 ; New Zealand, 3,965 ; India, 75,000 ; total, 227,151. On • vote of 211.667. for the volunteer corps.
It was proposed to add a fourth West hada regimsot Lard ENFIELD wished to know what the increase in the
for service is Africa. As recruiting was stopped, the total faros was this year, u compared with the last.
Barber of see for this year will be lea than those of last Mr. WILLIAMS said that in this vote there was a charge
year. The inertia, on the staff which appeared was mar of 31. per man fur yeomanry cavalry. This seemed to him
nominal than real, exert a small addition to the medical • very heavy charge.
dal in Canada ; the apparent increase being calmed by Mr. H. LEWIS thought this was not an extravagant vote
tesewtere from one vote to another without Mama of for the support of the volunteers. He thought they might
egrase. Since the Crimean war there had been an in- be made • very useful body, but he complained that a sum
awes in the estimates of 5,000,0001., of which about for the yeomanry was Ina-hided in this vote.
time millions and a half could be accounted for Major EDWARDS thought the country was under the
by an increase in the number of men amounting deepest obligations to the volunteer corps, but at the same
to about 25,000, and the remainder was to be at tiers he oonsidered the yeomanry were not to be disparaged
down to the improvement of armaments, and the as • useful force, which was liable to be called out at •
bettering of the phydcal• moral, and social condition of the moment's notice.
men ;no increase having taken place in the pay, strictly so Lord A. VANE thought a capitation grant of so much
called. Amongst other additions to the establishment per head ought to be given to each member of a volunteer
were the Military Train, and improvements in the medical corps, the amount to be awarded after the annual inspection.
rot commimanat corps, se well as the formation Mr. SELW YN thought the two votes should have been
of camps, schools of instruction for musketry and marred, as they were not identical iu character.
gunnery, and manufactories for arms. In making The retention of the sergeant-instructors bad been of the
a comparison between the expenditure of the army highest service to the country. That was one of the benefits
and navy favourable to the latter it must be re- arising from the volunteer force. (Hear, hear.) He thought.
membered that the army department,, supplied the navy therefore, the vote of 40.0001. wee not solely for the benefit
with its armaments of all kinds at a cost of a million, of the volunteers, but was of great prettied use to the rOAm.
which in fact was chargeable to the latter. There was an try. The vote also would have the advantage of assuring to
increase in the charge foe gunpowder, owing to the gunnery the rifle corps the benefit of experienced buglers. There
and musketry practice, and the supply of ammunition to was also the question of ranges. The government
the volunteers. The expense of improvements in alms were desired to carry out the provisions of the
and trials of weapons was also very great. Much ex- bill which he had introduced at the request of Lord
penditure bad been incurred in the improvement of Herbert. That measure was imperfect, and he called upon
,rirracks and hospitals, which had been attended with the government on the part of the volunteers to enable them
important sanitary results and great diminution of to carry out the provisions of the measure. That would
mortality in the army. The improvement in the be a very great boon to the rifle corps. Several impediments
clothing of the army had also caused au increase of expense. had been thrown io the way of the bill ; cad he wished to
There was also an increase in good conduct pay. Having ask, first, whether the measure might not be extended. or
detailed a number of items of expenditure concreted with whether the present arrangements might not be carried out.
the better condition of the soldier, and the vote for the no- He wished to summit that the instruction of the rifle corps
lunteers, besides their being supplied with arms and ammo- in rifle shooting was likely to be productive of benefit to
nitro, he announced that it was not intended that every breech of the service. He hoped the vote instead of
candidates for oommisaions should pass through Sandhurst, being diminished would be inereaaed, not in the shape of •
except those who sought them without purchase, and con- capitation grant but in the way be had suggested.
eluded by moving the first vote of 145,450 men. Mr. BUXTON thought that the vote might be looked
After some discussion, upon as an aid to her Majesty'. regular forces. The ex-
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said he felt strongly disposed to I pages of the volunteer force were very heavy, and they
propose a reduction of the force mentioned in this vote, but thought that if they contributed their time they ought not
he was aware he should receive no support from the nom- to be called upon also to afford money payments. Many of
mitre. (Hear, bear.) The ranothatrarray and the rel. I them were not in • position to continue their subscriptions,
diary forces of different kinds, and the army in our various while they felt that they were discharging a duty to the
dependencies, were in the aggregate equal to any army of couptry.
any military power on the Orineat. It was quite • new Lord LOVAINZ wished for • return of the number of
thing for England to have such a large &standing army. effective volunteers and of the days on which they had
Colonel NORTH said, if our army had only to defend attended drill.
England, the hon. member might have cause to complain. Sir G. C. LEWIS rid that there already existed mate-
hut he should remember that it was sent to America and all vials for supplying the information the noble lord desired.
other pule of the world, and that being so it was not so With respect to the union of the yeomanry with the volute.
large as other armies. teers, it seemed to him more convenient that the vot
In reply to Captain Jcavm, should be taken together. He hesitated to adopt the pro-
Sir C. WOOD said that the capitation sum of 101. per position of a capitation grant to the volunteers, because be
roan per year for India would stand good for one year more. thought it was essential to preserve the distinction between
The time load some when it would be revised. I the voluntary force and others.
Colonel STUART asked what were the hospital stop- Major EDWARDS observed that the yeomanry force
pages' and whether in future any relrious books would be , was under the Mutiny Act, and it had evinced the greatest
=to the army. Last year 3,0 M was taken in the dissatisfaction that they had bees placed on a par with the
fat that purpose, bet this year the sum had been volunteers. Then was also great complaint that the officers
*wok out a/ them. of yeomanry nerved only the rme pay as privates.
Mr G. C. LEWIS said be could at pedant give no ex- I Mr. KINNAIRD thought the volunteer force required
Oration as to the supply of Bibles, bat he would answer some further encouragement from that house.
Wee question on the report. With regard to the stoppeges. I ColooelENOX said that consideringthe sum voted for the
Formerly 10d. carried the whole exams for hospitals, but yeomanry force, and with the example of the volunteer
girths aptness were much greeter, wad toil. did not oover officers serving without say charge upon the state, the mo-
ths entire met, so that there bad bees no ramose, but vie- marry officers should at least not ask for any increased pay.
rally a her reenisdon made to the men. 1 Mr. W. E. FORSTER feared that unless some as-
Mr. WMTE wished his boa. friend the member for sister* were given in the refitment of volunteers
Lambeth bed moved • reduction of 10,000 men. (" Hear, when the present uniform was worn out, the
bar," and legghter, sad air Of " Move.") The right numbers would fall off from want of means.
how. gewthwiew bad stated that 5.1000,01:01. was formerly He did not ask that the volunteers should be paid, but
the total oar remind for the army, and that subsequently contrary something should be done to meet the uniform
to the treneli war 10.000,000 k was required. Alter the difficulty.
Crimea war the sum required we. 18,000,0001.. aced he Lord A. VANE said he did not mean that tine volunteers
eappernd it they had bets so neletterwee" al to have goat should be paid, bat be thought that raw asistanee should

be given towards the expense of uniforn. If the govern-
meat did not come forward to help the volunteer movement
iu this point he believed it was likely to die out.
Lori FERMOY said be wee au advocate for economy,
but he must any be mail not understand why they strained
at the volunteer gnat after having swallowed the expensive
camel of the regular service. He thought the government
should contribute something to the rifle ranee and butte.
The expense of this would not be much, and the ground
could he used for the practice of the militia, who, if they
were to be made efficient, should have the sp.
portunity of practising with the improved rifle.
Did government mean to give the cloth to the volunteers?
If something were not done in the way of encouragement,
the force would very soon melt away. He should always
be ready to vote in favour of rifle ranges.
Colonel BARTE LOT suggested a permanent supply of
military sergeanta for the volunteers', and hoped the govern-
meat meant to supply the latter with cloth at least once In
four years.
Mr. BUCHANAN, speaking for Scotland, could assure
the government that if something were not vary soon done
for the volunteers, the force would rapidly waste away.
Mr. BRUCE complained of the item of 3,000/. for the
clerks of the lieutenantcy, who were, be said, amply re-
macerated by the volunteers.
The vote was agreed to.
Committee to be resumed on Thursday next.
INDIA STOCK TRANSFER BILL.
This bill was reed a third time and passed.
EXCHEQUER BILLS BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
CONSOLIDATED FUND BILL.
This bill was read a third time and pared.
MERCHANDISE MARKS BILL.
Sir F. GOLDSMIDT objected to the further progress of
the bill. _

—.Jar a few words from Yr. GIBSON,
The bill wee reed a mood time.
OFFICERS OOMNISSIONS BILL.

Sir G. C. LEWIS moved the second reading of this bill,
the object of which ersa to enable the Commander.in-Chief
and Secretary of State to sign the commissions of officers in
the army.
Mr. ItENNESSY said, with all deference to the right
hon, gentleman, he did not think the bill at all neosesary.
Sir G. C. LEWIS said he should per more attention to
the opinion of the learned gentleman if it had legal weight,
but the government had taken legal opinions on this sub-
ject. It had been held that the appearance of an officer's
name in the Gazette was not evidence, and the court re-
quired the production of the commission. Hitherto the
commission had had the sign manual, and this bill was to
prevent the oeoessity of that.
The bill was then read a second time.
CHURCH BATES. -

On the motion of Sir C. DOUGLAS the Church Bates
Abolition Bill was postponed till the 14th of May.
On the motion of Mr. NIWDIGATI the Church Bates
Commutation Bill was also postponed to the 14th May.
The house adjourned at five minute' to one o'clock.