The Express.
London, England, 1864-06-04 00:00:00

CHIMNEY SWEEPERS AND CHIMNEYS
REGULATION BILL . -

Os the order for going inte7winiThniTteTOn this bill,
The &riot SHAFTESBURY mid it was with great re-
luctance that, before the house went Into Committee on this
bill, be ventured to trouble their lordships for a abort
period. He thought it his ditty to lay before their lordships
the principle of the existing law, the sacessity of that law,
and the provisions he wished to istrodoce for carrying that
law 114010 effectually into operation. The present bill did
not coutaio any new principle. In the year 1840 • oom-
milted was appointed of that bourne, sad out of
it mane • bill which absolately prohibited the
system of climbing boys altogether, and if that
law bad been observed there would have hese no
necessity for the preset measure. In 1853 be introduced •
bill for the purpose of rendering the previous one more
operative. That bill was referred to • opted committee up-
stews, and although 13 wit/saws were examined, were
one of whom bore ample testimony to the neosesity of the I
law, and to the secemity of strengthening it, yet that bill
was sot allowed to proceed say further. The committee
declared that it was net expedient. Now, both the bill of
1843 and the evidence of 1833 set forth in the clearest pos-
sible manner the enormity of the system, the great
cruelty and iql degradation nitiated upon the childres
employed iu this work, and the magistrates who gave
evidence set forth in the clearest manner the sufficisecy
and entire safety of the remedy. Is 1362 a commission was
appointed to inquire into the various trades is which child-
ren were engaged. That commission took evidence amongst
other saatt-rs as to the state of these climbing boys, sad
showed the existame of • greater amount of enormity
than had existed in former times. It wag that evidence
that he intended to bring before their lordships, to show the
necessity of the provisions contained in the present bill ;
and revolting soil disgusting as that evidence was. if their
lordships would tern to the appendix, they would find the
evidence there ten times more disgusting sad re-
volting than in the report itself. In order to
give their lordships • picture of the whole
system it would be necemary first of all that he should
tell their lordahips the ate at which these poor children
were ti,.t employed. The imocurrent testimony of all
witnesses was that the usual age was from six to eight ; but
there were instances in which they were employed at from
five to four and a half. The number of bows of employment
in small towns warfront eight to nine, in large towns it was
from twelve to nation ; and the greater part of the work
was carried on during the earliest hours, from two to four
in the morning. Upon children of these header years and
delicate (ranee, who WWII subjected to this most disgusting
and revolting employment, be mast show the cruelty that
was perpetrated. and the sufferings that they underwent.
The commissiouers examined thirteen witnesses, from
whose evidence the noble earl reed copious extracts. One
of them, a master sweep, said that the flesh of obnibing
boys must be hardened, and for that purpose it was rubbed
with toe strongest brine before a hot fire. It was necessary
to stand over the poor children with • cans, or to coax them
with the promise of halfpence to bear a few more rubs.
They CAW. home from their work with their elbows and
knees .0
let dibg. and the latter looking as tl their cape had
been torn off. It was is this state that the brine was
applied. The education of these children ems miserably at-
tended to. As effort was once made to get their work
finished by 12 o'clock is order that they might attend
school in the afternoon ; but s lady who was asked
to permit this arrangement replied. " Whet, educate
chimney sweeps! 1 weeder what mat:" He (the noble earl)
thought that a person that would make such an observa-
tion would hardly shrink from cutting up • child foe dog's
meat or to ma ke manure of. (Hear, near.) In fact, • re-
mark, more diegustiog, or one more Off•alliVe to Gad lad
man, was never made by the most brutal slave-owner.
There was not the slightest necessity for this creel and
disgusting system. Climbing boys bad bees abolished in
Loudon, in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Bath, Leicester, and the
Potteries, so that there could not he the slightest pretence
for saying that their services could not be dispensed with.
The master sweeps, as • body, were by so means re-
sponsible for the violation of the law. The guilt must
be laid at the door of three housekeepers, many of them
great housekeepers too, who declared that nothing on earth
should ever induce them to allow the machine
to enter their dwellings. The whole of the evidence
in the blue-book showed the determination of the ma-
gistracy not to convict. They required evidence
which it was impossible to produce. There was
another pert; who were to blame in this matter, namely,
the builders. The act of 1840 required that flues should be
eonstrocted in a certain manner, so as to admit of the um
of the machine, but so far as could be made oat the act had
bees universally disregarded, and in one district is the ms
tropolis, in which the buildings were erected priseipally by
(me builder, scarcely • chimney had been constructed on that
principle, and the masters said they must have boys to sweep
those chimneys. This was a matter of great =Wrest, in.
volviug the temporal, and be might say the eternal, in-
terests of many thousands of persons, and it was one that
eencereed the character of the country. They might de-
pend upon it that &system kept up mainly for the comfort
of the rich made • deep impression on the minds of the
your, and he asked whether it wee creditable to a country
like this that they should be keeping up a system, the
like of which, he believed, did not exist in any other
civilised country in the world. He was not asking them
to affirm a new principle, the principle bad been already
affirmed by earharsest—that principle was to ameliorate
the condition of the workieg.classes. He remembered
well the awful predictions which were uttered when he
was eodeavouriag to get the Factories Bill gamed through
parliament—predictions of ruts, both to masters end
operatives, but now both perils* were in favour of the
measure, and recently • manufacturer mid to him, " I
opposed you tooth and nail as long as I
lould, but now I see you were right. Take my
advice, for God's sake do not part with a hair's breadth
of the act, for it will do good to the people and do no harm
to us." He might say the same thing with regard to mines,
with the employment io which the legislature had inter-
fered. And be was net appealing to them on behalf of
adults, but on behalf of those who could not possibly
prok ct themselves. A few nights ago they had • sustained
discussion on the intellectual progress of the children of
the wealthier classes, but they were now asked to consider,
sot the totelleetual progress. but whether there should be
allowed to fall a small ray of light on the children of the
very lowest Ile entreated their lordships not to reject
this bill. bat so to legislate as to give to
the. poor children the time soil opportunity that would
enable them by the blousing of God to acquire a secular
education which might give them the possibility of • life
of industry sad honesty is this world, sod above all enable
them to obtaiu that religious Knowledge which alone would
make a man WWI onto salvation. (Hear, hear.) The noble
lord added that he thought it desirable to withdraw all the
clauses relating to construction. They were only inserted
to give effect to the clauses of the act of 1840.

- -
Lord BROUGHASI thanked his noble friend for the able
and impressive statemeot be bad just made. The noble
lord had shown the absolute necessity of some such measure.
Be did not think it was possible to put down this offence by
mere pecuniary penalties, sod therefore be highly approved
of those clauses which made bad cases punishable as a mis-
demeanour. Half lcentury ago, when he was endeavouring
to put down the slave trade, it wee foiled that the slave
trade dourished uotwithriooding heavy pecuniary penalties,
and it was found that the only effective means of pre.
venting persons engaging in the trade was to make it a
felony:. He bad little doubt that bribery at elections, which
could not be stopped by the heavy expeoditme the member
was put to of going before an election committee, might be
put down by making the off ewe punishable u a MSS-
demeanour.

The Earl of DANOUGHMORE said be bad formerly
entertained en objection to the bill a■ unneeesearily inter-
fering with the liberty of the subject, bat after haring
heard the statement made by the Dobbs lord at the sod of
the last session, and the statement he had made that
*seeing, he thought a case bed been made out for legislation.
Lord REDEADALE observed that some of the provi-
goes were of a stringent character, for instance. one which
enabled a constable, without a warrant, to apprehend and
detain a person supposed to be under sixteen years of age,
who he thought was going into a house for the purpose of
going up the chimney.

The house then went into committee on the bill.

isiC1;;;;• ', which provides that boys under Li years of
age shall not be brought into • house to assist in applying
the machine to the .weeping of a chimney,
Lord PORTMAN objected to the clauee as being neaten-
eerily stringent.
The Earl of SHAFTEMBCRY said everything turned ou
this. If a boy were brought in nominally to assist in placing
the machinery, the blinds would be drawn down and the
door closed, and the boy might be forced to go up the chin..
NIT mid it would be impossible to prove that he had dolma).
he clause was agnad to.
Ow clause S
Earl GREY proposed to add the following words:—
" And if any occupier of a louse shall knowingly allow any
person under 16 years of age to be sect up a chummy in the
home he occupies, he shall be liable to a penalty not exceed-
PORTMAN thought It hard to mulct the cocepier
dthe house. HO might be perfectly immesh