The Express.
London, England, 1864-02-24 00:00:00

TEE EMPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 24, Tat

The fact was that the country would never stand these
private executions, as there would always be a doubt
whether some sort of execution by proxy might not have
taken place. (Loud laughter.) He challenged the right
bon. baronet, who was about to speak, to give any proof
that capital punishment acted in deterring persons from
crime. . .

Sir G. GREY asked were there not other circiun-
dances which collected great crowds, sod did not such
crowds exhibit equally revolting incidents. All great crowds
had in fact the result of stirring up society to its lowest
depths, and bringing into public view manners which at
other times were hid in obscurity. That, however, did not
show that executions had not salutary eft sets on other,
sod perhaps the most numerous, persons in such a crowd.
(Hear, hear.) His hon. friend had quoted the report of
the Lords' committee. He (Sir G. Grey) had read that re-
port sad the evidence upon which it was founded, and he
must say that is his judgment no committee had ever come
to its conclusions on more unsatisfactory evidence. Only
four witnesses were examined, and they contradicted each
other, acd the great fact relied on was that several persons
who were known to have attended executions had subse-
quently committed crime. That might be true in some
cams, bet who was to reckon the number of persons who
might have been deterred from crime by witnessing axe-
cations. (Hear, hear.) He thought that perfect publicity
was an indispeolable element in these executions, sad that
anything like privacy would be wholly repugnant to the ge-
neral feeling of the country. As to compelling a jury to
attend the execution of the criminal they had convicted,
it would be utterly impossible, and the suggestion of ad.
milting the first twenty or thirty persons who pre-
muted themselves at the gaol door would only lead to
a eorasuble which would aggravate the horrors of she seem.
Theo se to the public exposure of the body and the hoisting
of a black flag, they would collect as many people about the
gaol as the actual execution, sod be utterly destructive of
the privacy for which the hon. member cootended. This
moth must be said for the execution of the previous day,
that the arrangements were excellent, and that the crowd
dispersed earlier and more quietly than was usually the rem.
ender all the circumstances be trusted that the house would
not accede to the motion of his hon. friend. One warden to
the state of public opinion with respect to the execution of
these five pirates. He has been asked whether be had re-
ceived any consmunicatioos on the subject. He had re-
-1 calved one, but it demanded not privacy, but greater pub-
licity. As an hoc. baronet had stated, he bed received a
letter from the under sheriffs of the City of London,
suggesting that Wetted of having the execution of the
whole of Clem criminals take place at the Old Bailey
they should be distributed throughout the country, and
that the impression to be produced should be distributed
over a wider surface. This appeared a °ambition on the
part of the civic authorities that salutary effects were to be
expected from the publicity of capital punishments. There
were always certain iIiCOUVIMA4IIOOI attending the admiais-
triton of justice, and they were not absent in this one.
Nevertheless, he was not prepared to entertain the proposal
of the hoe. member for Oldham.

ialernaanBlDKlYcomplaitied of them executions folder
place in the midst of a busy city, and collecting 30,000
persons within a limited area to look at fire forgiven*
dangling like lop in the air. Another point to which he
wished to call attention was, that in Newgate between 200
and 300 living pencils were confined within a apace of
half an acre, end that the interment of five full-grown
young men within the wells was calculated to have an
lop' loos effect on the health of the living inmates.
He asked whether this was consistent with the law of
extra-mural interments.

Lord H. LE-NNO.Xwas not ashamed to say that, ac-
tuated by motives which perfectly justified his conduct
to himself, be was • member of that vast crowd
which had assembled in the trout of Newpte
on the previous morning. (Laughter.) He went there
very anxious to ascertain whether the picturesque
accounts he had seen in the public papers of those soarer,
and the amnions respecting the decorous bearing of the
crowds, were folueded on the actual facts, or whether it was
one wild wipe of blasphemy, materna% and obscenity. It
was not for him to describe what had been so much better
described in the morning papers, but this he must my, that
anything more disreputable be had never interned than the
demeanour of that crowd. There was the most shocking
levity,bounettiog throwing hats into the crowd, and amilar
practices. Nor did they stop when the ant of the unhappy
men was rained fainting to his doom. They still went oa
swearing, hustling, and crying "bats off ;" in abort, any-
thing more isderent, more devoid of moral feeling, he bed
wintered. One of the daily ppm, which was most ad-
mirably conducted, theLteilyzNews (that morsing,contrised
a wage which completely bore out assertion,Sl34 there-
fore, with the permission of the house, he would read it.
The writer rid—" While these inconceivably disgrace-
ful trams were being enacted, the obscene and
blasphemous cries of the crew engaged in mock-
ing the preachers in the crowd, the Gem
cheers with which the constant fights were encouraged,
the screams and whistlinp, the hideous groans and inde-
cent songs, formed as accompaniment which, OM an open
*zonation of abandoned depravity and rampant sin, km
probably. not been exceeded since the world began." (Hear.)
He was In • position to witness that sea of upturned faces,
but is vain did be attempt to light upon any eountessees
showing signs of eadnees or pity. On the contrary, they
displayed every evidence of mirth and jollification. (Hear.)
He wished to ask the right bon. baronet if he would not
exercise the power he undoubtedly passaged over the aw
tborities of Navigate to induce theta to fix wens
other day than Monday for these disgraceful
traps. He lived in • county where the mactity
of the Sabbath was respected. Some permits might
think that these scenes were confined to Monday • but
whet would bon. members my when he told them that on
Senday, from 11 o'clock in the monis& the place is front
of Niragate gaol was surging to and fro with the scam of
our populatioc. In the hours during which the law allowed
I the publinhorns to be open they were crowded and
I thronged with this population, eager not only to quench
their thirst, but to keep up their spirits in order to enable
them to stay the night through and behold
the terrible sight of the wonting. Not only
that, but • large body of individuals, whom he
could scarcely call men, were greedily wishing to Ist seats at
their window. for sums varying from • few *haling up to
11. and Sl., aooording as they were convenient and near
enough to see the white ceps of the criminal. And this
went on on a Christian Sunday in a Christian land, in the
metropolis of the Christie. world. He could not help
thinking that if the right hon. gentleman would oommuei
cats with the authorities of News** they
might be induced to consult the feelings of the re-
spectable portion of the it:habilitate of that neighbourhood.
He had that morning received a letter from the respected
minister of St. Sepulchre's—e gentleman who, be might
mention, was strongly opposed to any idea of the abolition
of capital punishment. He said that the scenes which the
execution reduced, not only on the morning, but on eit
previous Sunday, were two only moat offensive, bet were
`moat injurious to the morals of tame esseenhled, ape-
• (rally of the young. He was only speaking the nu.
timenta of every respectable inhabitant of the parish
when he said that the greatest conceivable relief
would be afforded if something could be done to mitiga.e
the evils of such exhibitions. There was only one other
remark. He did not know whether it would succeed in
London, where the traffic was so much greater, but in some
parte of the country no public announcement was given
I either of the day or hour of an execution. At Warwick,
the authorities of the gaol never announced the day, except
to the Home Secretary, and he was informed that when
the last execution took place about a year
or sixteen months ago, the crowd only num•
! bored about 2(0 persons, tested of 40,000. (Hear.
bear.) He thought that so simple a plan as this might be
tried elsswhsre, and if it had no other effect it might
I prevent railway boards from running excursion trains or
eternize trips to enable people to see their fellow-creatures
strangled—(hear, how)—nod it would prevent those memos
is the neighbourhood of the gaols from getting 50 or 75
guineas for wiodows, enabling people to see the straggling
features of dying criminals. (Hear, ham) He thought it
was high time that the Home Secretary should interfere in
this matter. (Hear, beer.)

)Ir. BONHAM•CASTEIt raid he thought no slur ought
to be thrown upon the feelinp of the noble lord the tom.
Der for Chichester for having given the bows the results of
what be had is... (Hem, hear.) It was not a question of
privacy and publicity, or whether the omnanunity should
sell together a mob of the lowest character, acted ea by a
peedy end craving curiosity of the most mirage nature,
but that the last solemn act of the law should be per-
formed with solemnity. gravity, end decency. Hitherto
a crowd had been assembled cm these owe-
, eons only by verbal ootioe, or by Matilde°
hooded from ore to the other. But they had now got rid
of the necessity of a peat aggregation of numbers. As the
eloquent writer in the Daily News had observed, sae Gould
not but me that the miserable class of people brought
together by these executions, not for the purpose of wit-
nessing the sickening details of • last sat of justice, but of
males none new sensation, was not the sort of assembly on
which such au exhibition could have any good effect. At it
was. the crowd were iodipant at Wog depri redid nomsof the
horrors which they expected to see. There was a partial
moan plead before there struggling bodies, and the crowd
complained, as if some &hackney is the horrid ceremony had
taken place. (Hear, hear.) The great argument ia favour
of publicity was, that it produced certainty. The Home
Secretary had said that he had received no expreedoo of
public opinion spinet executions taking place in this
public way ; but he (Mr. Bonham-Carter) was happy to say
that there was hardly &aegis newspaper. of whatever opinion
or degree of publicity, which had not raised its winos against
the horrors which were elected, and had not published
ertidee which carried conviction to the mind that wooer or
later people would secede to the principle of private execu-
tions. They existed in Australis,— they existed in America ;
and he thought it was only right and decent that this blot
end stigma should be removed. This was a deed "to
shudder at, not to see" (Hear, hear.) He could only hope
that the effect of the present motion would be to put en
end to the system whereby people were "butchered to make
a ruffians' holiday." (Hear, bear.)
Lord GREY DE WILTON said be agreed with the
noble lord (Lord H. Lennox) in his remarks against the
running of special railway trains for cosveying people to
see these executions. But be would call upon the Mess to
adopt the maxim of "Audi alters= pertem." He himself
had some years since witnessed one of them mesas,
oa the ciecimice of the executsou of the murderer of ao
unfortunate woman is the Hoye/mks' ; and be those*
making all allow's** for the aeon that *marred and the
expressions which were Demmarily heard wheomer mem.
Wee of this clam of the people met together, that a very
peat oast was produont. He same away in;praieed with

the identhatthough the Moon might be kat upon scam few,
yet upon the majority a very striking effect was maimed.
Mr. HIBBERT, in withdrawing the motion, said one of
his principal motives had been to induce the right hon. gen-
tleman to institute some inquiries ea to the worldly of the
system of private executions in other countries. He wee
convincad that a change of opinion in this country on the
subject was now only a matter of time.
The motion was this withdrawn.

in neutral porta to take part in war between belligerents,
we should benefit the commercial oammuaity. (Cheers.)
What community would suffer more than the mer.
audits osmininnity of this country if that system
is eapported and that Principle Is adopted. (Load
chines.) What would take plaid in the event at a war
1 hitless') us and another country? An 7 country, whether it
had or not a port, a navy, or any trading oommunity at all,
might in any neutral country build and arm vessels as
pirates to poly upon our commerce. We are sot unin-
terested as merchants in this muter. (Loud cheers from
theminiderial benches.), We are interested to the mainte-
nance of that principle which we propounded and supported
ourselves when we were engs, in war. We are interested
in the principle adopted by President Jefferson at our re-
commeedatioe, &adorned upon so recently sa during the Cri•
mean war, and which, rely upon it, if we break through now,
will be maintained as a principle to our injury hereafter
(Ministerial cheers.) My right hoc, friend says that nem-
Vela are authorised to trade. Yes, but there is a law that
says you are not allowed to equip. (Mr. WALPOLI—"Hear,
hest.") Dods my right hoc. frigid mean to say
that these vessels, armed with rams—(ministerial
cheer.)—that theme were merely innocent commercial
yeses* which might be used for commercial purposes, and
which would be mistimed if adapted for belligerent purposes.
(Renewed cheering.) Will be not allow that the very fact
of the construction of the meals, and arming them with
rams, proves the object for which they were intended. My
right hon.friend says the Solicitor-Generalshoeld sot answer
the questions which were put to him by the hoe, member
for Belfast, but there is one question of the Solicitor-Gene-
rare which be did not answer. Does he believe that these
venal" were built for innocent purposes, and that they were
not armed for war ? (Cheers.) lam sure I need not appeal
to his sincerity to allow, as every man most allow, that
they were intended and destined for war purposes. (Cheers.)
I speak for my individual interests as a merchant, and I re-
tizinthpat my own intoning are identified with the
of peace and the mainteasnce of amity. (Chests.)
I believe that in the blessings*: peace rests not only the
progress of civilisation, but the greatness of this country ;
and when I hear gootlemea on this side of the house taunt-
ing the government with not precipitating the country into
war, I confess I have no sympathy with them. (Great
cheering from the ministerial benehea) I advocate my
own interests, I allow, but I am advocating at the Fame
time the interest@ of my country end of the community.
(Cheers.) If the speeches of my right hon. friend and the
boo. and learned gentleman are to form the ground of our
division tonight, they come, in moving for these papers, to
a moat lame and impotent conclusioa. (Loud ministerirl
cheers.) Let them at once bring forward their measure.
Let them at once censure the law officers of the govern-
ment for the course they have plumed. For myself,
I thank the noble lord the Secretary for Foreign
Affairs, and those gentlemen who have deliberately
and not rashly taken the measure into their consideration. I
think the government are open to very grays censure in not
being more active in preventing the departure of the
Alabama, bus I thank them for adopting in this case what I
raped am statesmanlike conduct, tending to a great national
object, and conducing to the welfare of this country.
(Loud Ministerial cheers.) . .

Mr. SEYMOUR FITZGERALD said there was use point
in the speech of the hoc. gentlerese who lied just eat down
which gave him great satisfaction and pleasure, and that
was that in the views he had a:premed he did not seem
to represent the mercantile community of England.
(" Oh, oh! and cheers.) They all knew the great and dis-
tinguished position the hon. gentleman held amongst the
merchant princes of the country, bat he had admitted that
on the present occasion be expressed only his
individual opinion. What bad been said by say
one speaker on that side of the house to jus-
tify the hon. gentleman in saying that they were the
advocates of wart (Cheers.) The discussion that bad taken
place was most important, for it was the first time that •
minister had ever yeetured to stead up in that boom and
t i=iy, in the face of the House of Commons • deliberate
of the law. Responsibility was a very eleatic tato,
and capable of a wide interpretation, and if the government
could arrest ships upon their own responsibility, why should
they not also arrest men ? The attorney-general said these
ships were detained upon grave suspicion, until sufficient
evidence was obtained. and he announced that such wriderm
had been obtained. But what would have been the effect
if the government bad discovered, after they had com-
mitted a violation of the law, that the object
of these vessels was lawful and innocent? (Hear, bear.)
A great deal of advantage had been obtained from the dis-
canon that night; and be was glad that the principle bad
bees vindicated from that side of the house, that nothing
would justify on the part of the executive a deliberate
breach of the law, or the principle the government had
enunciated that night, that the end justified the means.
(Glisiere.)
Sir G. GREY wished it to be clearly understood that the
papers asked for in the latter part of the monon would be
granted ; sad that in voting against the resolution the itera-
tive of the government most be understood as applying
only to the papers mentioned is the former part.
The home divided—

For the motion 163
Against
The announcement or the samisen we. received with
cheering. The motion was consequently lost.
HY POTHEC (SCOTLAND).

Kr. CiFtNEGIE mid that at the request of the Lord-
Advocate sod other Scotch members, he would postpooe
his motion for s select committee on this subject until after
Easter.

COPYRIGHT.

Mr. BLACK moved for leave to bring in a bill for the
consolidation of the acts relating to copyright in works of
literature and the fine arta.
Leave granted.
ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION.

On the motion of Mr. WALPOLE, • copy of two
report' mad* to the Esilanimatioal Commimioners on the 4th
and Bth February, 1864, wia ordered.

WAREHOUSING OF BRITISH SPIRITS BILL.

Th. aboy• bill was reed • mood time.
BILL TO CONSOLIDATE ACTS RELATING TO
COPYRIGHTS.
_

This bi 11... brought na-ane—fuet time.
The house adjourned at 12 o'clock.

ILato inttlilgrita.

COURT OP PROBATE AND DIVORCE.
Pea. 23.
Wore the Jody Ordinary.)
1101 MI O. B AND MUM _
. DOW

--- -.
In this case a decree niai had been pronounced, and the
three month. expired on the 13th inst. On the 17th,
howe►er, the Queen's Proctor filed affidavits and 'joked for
leave to intervene.

Dr. Spicks, on behalf of the petitioner, now moved that
the decree nisi be made absolute, contending that the
Queen's Proctor had no right to interfere. At the end of
the three months named in the decree nisi the right of the
' petitioner to his divorce aecraed, and the court was bound
ex debit* justitia to make the decree absolute ; just as the
right of a wife accrued after two years' desertion, and she
WAS justified in refusing any offer subsequently made to her
by her husband to renew cohabitation.
Mr. Searle, for the Queen's Proctor, said that what his
learned friend argued for could not possibly have been the
Intention of ►he legislature ; otherwise the statute would
have provided that at the expiration of the three mouths
the decree nisi should become absolute on the filing of affi-
davits showing that there had been no intervention. It was
clear from the words of the statute that any one, and espe-
cially the Queen's Proctor, had a right to intervene at any
moment until the decree had been actually made absolute.
The Judge Ordinary did not propose to give any directions
at present. It seemed clear to him that the intention of
parliament had been to withhold divorces while there re-
mained the slightest ground why they should not be
granted. The Queen's Proctor would, no doubt, consult
the Attorney-General, if he had not already done so ; and
would in a short time apply for leave to take some definite
step. If he did not, the ciurt would know what to do, bat
in the meantime it would not maks a decree absolute.

COMMTON r. CODILLYGTON AND ILNDINION.
In this case Adjutant Oodringtou bad petitioned for a
divorce on account of his wife's alleged adultery with the
co-respondent, and with other ip:ilrfsofnosr notown. The
application
WasSic'tshen isnformlonthahtsroor of the Ps
unknown
was Lieutenant Herbert S. John Mildmay, of her Majesty's
Ritle Brigade.
Mr. Searle mow applied for a commission to examine
Lieutenant Mildmay, who was to the Punjaub.
Dr. Spinks observed that the granting commissions was
wholly within the discretion of the court. The present
application was obviously for the purpose of delay ; and it
was obvious that all the evidence LieuAmint Mildmay
could give would be to deny the adultery imputci to him. On
behalf of the petitioner he was willing to admit that he had
denied it.

Sir J. Wilde said the petitioner must siopt one of
two coursed ; he must strike the charge against Lieutenant
Mildmay out of the petitioo ; or he must allow him to to
examined as a witness. _ _ _

The cornmeal= wee therefore granted, but it was directed
not to lame for a week.

SPORTING INTELLIGENCE.

LINCOLN SPRING MEETING—TcraiDAY.

THE Taxis 13TLEss of 5 NOM each, with 25 added, far
3-p-olds and upward.; penalties and allowaucis. Oae
tilde.

MT. J. Lowe s Angloaszon, by Ethelbert—Gtiselds, 3 yrs,
64131 b 'J. Imam 1
Mr. G. W. Morrie's Siva, 3 yrs, eat 131 b kNYbltaley) 2
Luke as Mairey's Panama. 6 yrs, est bib .... (A. Wattles( 3
The toUosag also ran :—Backland. Madcap, Guerilla, East-
munster, and The Sapper.
Betting: 100 to 30 apt Bnekland, 4 to 1 apt inglo-
Baron, 9to 2 apt Punt n, 100 to 13 each 'gat Biwa and
Redcap, and 10 to 1 apt any other.
1 111 BROCKLIBBT &ZAMA of 4 soya. each, with 40 added,
for 2-yr olds ; colts, 8d 10th ; fillies sad geldings, list 71b ;
winners extra. Half a mils.

Mr. licalirmaa's Unica; by Wlndhourid—Ds Makers dam,
Flit 7lb
Fr. Bam?ert Black:erd. eat 71b (A. a= 2

nsylleS La alechat7te. lkn 711 (CM&seri 3
The lollowlsa raw Mald, 2131,
Lovelace, Water baby, Itrltaaroa,=Ze,a eel "brown broad.
Betting : 3 to 1 apt Water Baby, 4 to 1 apt Bleekb'-d,
5 to 1 apt La Meclumito, 7 to 1 eget The Grappler, 8 to 1
apt Brown Bread, and 10 to 1 apt Viaios.
Tar Cult FlAwntcar of 3 son. each, with 40 added;
winners extra. Six furlongs.
Mr. F. Fisher's Reindeer, o yra lg. by Maintain Deer—
Sultans (llalthaent) I
Mr. T. Cliffs Orlon. 4 yrs, eel Iry (M. Taylor)
Mr. J. Abets Camper:town, gym it (Reeethry)
The follow log aloe ran Jinune. Cronsvads, Lady of the
Isles, sad Wendey c.
Betting : sto '3 apt Chelan, 3 to 1 apt Reindeer, 4 to 1
apt Rise Emma, and 7 to 1 opt ClisairdEwn.
Tax GRAND draxesscaexx ( ) of 10 move. ash,
'S ft, and only 3 if declared, with 80 ; winners extra.
About four mike over a fair hunting country.
Mr. Moffitt's Rook the Gardener, 0 yre, 10d lIIb
(W. Whale) 1
Mr. Newarta's Maecten, aged, lit 10Ib.. (Mr. G. Welker) 2
Mr. WIMIII 33- aldelPwoal. by Pololoe7 r). eked.
list Mb (Mr. Ilarbusdais.
The following oleo raa:—Red Hobbs. Harkaway, hoe
Map" Malta, Cadet, Creole. and Baron of Aron.
Betting : 3 to 1 apt Baron of Avon, 4 to 1 aged nee
Apple, and 6 to 1 apt Book the Gardener.
There was no betting on future events.