The Express.
London, England, 1863-07-25 00:00:00

POLAND.

The Marquis of CLANRICARDE roes to move for any
mode that might have been received from our diplomatic or
consular meets on the Cootiesot of atrocities committed or
threatened by Russians or Poise since let May ; and to in-
quire whether her Majesty's government had reason to
hope that the civil war DOW raging iu Poland would
henceforth conducted according to the wave of
civilised warfare.

fart Et observed in the coarse of his reply
I must notice what is evideelly a very great fins.
lopresentation of that which I said in this boom
en • faunae °oration. It appears that somehow
other Mr. Herman made a statement which is really so
important and so evidently in contradiction to what
I really did I
say that I must call your lordships' attest-
tion to it. find that the statement I era
supposed to have made is that "however much the honour
and interest of England may demand it—however much the
safety of Europe nay require it—England would on oo
soxisint draw the sword for Poland." This k evidently so
absurd that it is impossible that I could have made seek •
remark ; but I beg to claim your lordships' attention to
the oaten of the argument which I did use. I said that
where the honour sad iodapendesce of Eogland were in
question than could be no calculation of oossequencee—
you must defend the honour of the witiotry at any oust
But I waist on to add that where the question was one
of genera humanity—when it was one affecting the balance
of power or the bearing of certain treaties, it Cher h00,,n,5,
the goveromest, before they took any warm, and it
became parliament before it arrived at any decision, to see
clearly what the object was that they had in view, and whe-
ther they had the probable mesas of effecting that object.
There was no question with regard to the belabour, or inde-
pendence, or safety of the country; but it was • question
of national consideration whether you rare likely to obkin
the object you had is view, sad especially whether the ob-
Met you sought was a definite cos. There is, however,
another statement which was made in the same epeseh of •
very different character. That was • skteamest likewise
attributed to ate, namely, that if Poland obtsiaed her lode.
pudenda, it would be not only withost the good-will, but
contrary to thejudgment, the wish, end the desire of this coun-
try. Something like that oowde,-• was put upon my speech
by a noble earl whom I see opposite ; sad it may possibly
Lave been a fair interpretation of what I said, but it yea
certainly not • just construction of my meaning. I ven-
tured to express some time ago my whams with roma to
the independence of Poland, and I hoped that one day that
independence would be secured. But what I was arguing
was, that an independent Poland which should be estab-
lished by foreign powers—by Frisco, or by Austria, or by
England—might become an element of disorder in vrope.
Now, it appears to me that that was not only a fair argu-
ment, bat that it is exactly what would happen. I/ Poland
were able to establish her own independeoce it
would be an element of order and pesos in
Burwell. Bat it fore* power' were to go and
establish as independent kingdom iu Poland which could
not mined of itself —if that kingdom were exposed to con-
tinual agitations and complicity with Russia in order to
maintain its independence or to extend its territory—if
France and England were to be perpetually calked in to
support that kingdom which they had thus artificially
created., then I believe that such a kingdom would be a
sours., not of order, but of disorder in Europe. That was
nay argument. It wee • very plain one, and I do not think
it is one from which men in general would dissent With
regard to what is going on at the present moment, her
Majesty's government have received a very imoortant
anomunieation from Ruses* which has been laid before the
home. Now, all I have to say span that communication
is that the only practical portion of it is • recommendation
on the part of Russia that Austria should combine and
place herself is cornier' with Roane and Prussia—that there
should thee be a cadmium amongst the three—that they
should settle the details of what should be done with regard
to the air points—and that when they had wens to the
sod of then labours, sod whes they bad agreed to attain
details and measures, France and England should have the
benefit of being informed of the result. That is the only
practical proposal that is contained in the 00111111111a1111.
tern ; and 1 am riled to say that no sooner did it reasb
the Austrian government than they at once telegraphed to
St. Petersburg to decline it. (Hear, hoer) I have had
placed in my hands by the Austrian ambassador • very
able and straightforward despatch entirely repudiating any
such conference. I can ooly add that so far as the oom-
sounications have yet gone France and Austria are entirely
agreed with ies es to the vims which we Joke on the sub-
jest. (Hear, hoer.)
Lard STRATFORD de REDCLIPFE thought the house
must have &nerved with great satisfaction the conduct
of Austria on this °maniocs. (Hear, hear.) It was sot
only important so far as Poland was concerned, but it
proved that Austria had really sod siseerely made_ up her
mind is that coarse which teeny of her recent acts had jus-
tified a belief that she would take. She was no longer the
oppressor of Italy and the opponent of all liberal opinions
ad the progress of human society, but we might now look
for her sympathy and co-operation is those matters which
affected the peace of Europe and the freedom of commerce.
The Earl of ELLENBOROI7GH did not find fault with
her Majesty's government for having endeavoured to solve
the difficulty. On the contrary, he thought it was their
duty to endeavour to place themselves at the head of public
epinios on the 'object They bad endeavoured to produce
a good result by their diplomacy, but the answer of Prince
Govt.:shako( was a practical termination to ell attempts at
diplomacy with and hope of usefulness. To go further in
that direction would he perfectly idle. We now
knew exactly where we were. We knew that by
diplomacy we should obtain nothing from Russia. It
was therefore for her Majesty's government carefully to
soosider whoa they would en now.
The Earl of MA.LILF.BII Y could not see that
there arm any excuse for the government is taking
the active store they had. They might hare token Is
motive steps, and nude friendly and officious representations
to &Ana, sienna( what was their opinion in common
with the rest of Europe respecting the conduct of the
Ramisa government in Poland. Ia that case they would be
peter* free from those trammels oat of which they could
now hardly swaps. If they went os in this question
hand is band with France, they would and in the end that
their intsrede were at variance, and that, as happened
Is the last ix fig the war would end in Frau*
gefAzy some (Hear, hear.)
GRANVILLH denied that these bed been
say &partner ea the part et the government from
the Oriole el ame-iaterventioa. (Hear, bear.) They
applied Husk moral in booed os treaty rights sad
taraatiosal kw, sad pointed out the come which in their
aidnion the itasian governaaset ooglit to take at *ppm