The Press.
London, England, 1858-03-20 00:00:00

THE PRESS, MARcrt 20, 1858.

sion of the law. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman also
asks what are our intentions with regard to the system of
national education? We will maintain that system in-
violate. (Hear, hear.) But if we find that we can com-
bine with the maintenance of that system a principle of
relief to the church schools which now receive no assist.
ance, I think the question deserves the best consideration
not merely of the Administration but of Parliament.
( Hear, hear.) All I say is that if we can find a means of
adjusting the claims of all parties, we do not preclude our-
selves from introducing such a plan. ( Hear. hear.) The
lion. gentleman then came to the climax of all political
questions, that of parliamentary reform. He seems to be
extremely alarmed at the opinions prevalent on these
benches on the subject of parliamentary reform. It
would seem that nobody may poach on that manor but
the Liberal party. The hon. gentleman was profuse in
those quotations for which he has always been remarkable,
but unfortunately they were not relieved by that brilliancy
which formerly enabled us to bear his endless quotations
from Harvard. (Hear, hear.) He fixed on a passage
from a speech of mine as his test : he states me to have
declared that the bill of 1832 was a gross Whig job. [An
lion. Member: "So it was."] An lion. gentleman be-
hind me says "So it was." (Loud laughter.) But I can
assure him and the house that it is an error to suppose that
I ever used such a phrase. I have always spoken with the
respect due to a parliamentary statute of such importance,
and one which had engaged so long the solicitude of the
country. Ido say, and I have said before, in this house,
and not merely on the hustings of Buckinghamshire, that
excitement

from the excitement, the unreasoning it, which
prevailed at the time, facilities were given for perpetrating
very gross jobs during the progress of the bill through
Parliament, which had been fully availed of. I believe
that is now the opinion of the country. I am sure it is
not restricted to the Conservative benches, and I think
that without exaggeration I may claim it as the decision
of posterity.

Mr. Disraeli then briefly traced the history of the
Reform Bill of '32, till finality was deserted and
innovations proposed by Lord J. Russell himself :

From that moment we held ourselves free to consider
on its merits any future plan which might be brought for-
ward to change the parliamentary constitution, and adopt
those suggestions which in our minds would lead to the
settlement most conducive to the public benefit. ( Hear,
hear.) The noble lord the member for the City brought
forward a new bill; when he introduced it be was not suc•
cesaful, but the opposition did not come from the Conser-
vative party. When Lord Aberdeen became Prime
Minister, and after him the noble lord the member for
Tiverton, it was constantly stated that a Reform Bill
was to be introduced. At length it was introduced to the
House of Commons in a gracious speech from the Throne ;
that was repeated again this year. It would be unfortunate
indeed if the country should be led to believe that a quell.
tiou of this vast importance could be used by statesmen
for mere party purposes. If there is one thing more likely
than another to poison the feelings of the public, and to
alienate their best sentiments from the institutions of the
country, it is a suspicion engendered in the public mind
that schemes for reconstructing the institutions of the
country are used by public men for party purposes. It is
impossible that a question like parliamentary reform can
be hung up and taken down to suit the convenience of a
Ministry—that in Opposition it may be regarded as a thing
to be branded in the face of the Government, and in place
as a thing which may be allowed to rust in the scabbard.
Well, sir, under these circumstances we feel it our duty to
consider that question, and we shall consider it with the
determination, the earnest determination, of endeavouring
to make a settlement of it which will be satisfactory to
the soberminded people of this country. (Ministerial
cheers.)

The hon. member for Dover asks me what are the prin•
ciples upon which our Reform Bill is to be founded. I do
not think I am bound to tell the hon. gentleman what are
the principles of a bill which we do not propose to intro-
duce during the present session. (Hear, hear.) He
asks, " What is your Reform Bill?" I will tell the hon.
gentleman what our Reform Bill is not. It will not be a
bill devised to prop up a political party, or to promote the
interests of a particular class. ( Loud cheers.) It
will be founded on principles of general justice, and I hope
it will give universal satisfaction. ( Loud and general
cheering.) " But," says the hon. gentleman, "what lanai.
ness have you in that place? You and your colleagues are
in a declared minority." Are we? That's the itiestion.
(Cheers and laughter.) Ido not at all agree that we are
not supported by the majority of this house ; I entirely
repudiate the statement of the hon. member. (Cheers and
laughter.) Where is the majority in this house? Has
the noble lord the member for Tiverton the majority in
this house ? If so, why is he sitting on that (the front
Opposition) bench? (" Hear, hear," and cheers from the
Ministerialists.) Has the noble lord the member for
London the majority in this house? Why, it is only a
fortnight ago since the noble lord the member for Tiverton
beat him by a majority of 200. (Hear, hear.) Well, then,
where is the majority in this house? Is it represented by
the bon. member for Dover, by the hon. member for
Cashel, or by the hon. member for Knaresborough ? They
are the gentlemen who want to hear our policy. What is
their policy ?—what is their programme? If they form a
Government, will they have a majority? If they have not
a majority, and if neither of the noble lords has a majority,
why am Ito suppose that we are in a minority ? ( Hear,
hear.) On the contrary, we shall carry on the affairs of
this country with the utmost energy, and I hope with the
utmost prudence ; we shall endeavour to do cur duty to
our Sovereign, to Parliament, and to the country ; and so
long as we are animated by that endeavour, until the fatal
truth is proved by facts which I do not anticipate, I shall
believe we possess the constitutional confidence of the
House of Commons, (Loud and prolonged Ministerial
cheers.)

Mr. Honsm.tx entirely diapproved of the attack
upon the Government by Mr. Osborne, which he
thought more calculated to defeat the progress of
public business than to bring about any other result.
The present Government had not obtained office by
any manoeuvre:—

His opinion was, that if they could justly charge the
prestnt Government with having obtained office by sr.aling
into it by some indirect method, or with grasping at it by
any factious movement—if they could attribute to them
when in opposition a systematic course of unbecornire,
conduct to gain that object—then those who now sat oar
the Opposition side of the house would be justified in
showing them no quaver; but he must say, dltfering front
his hon. friend the member for Dover, that ever since the
day the lute Government was formed, the opposition to it
hal been conducted with a moderation and forberuance
to
which he remembered no parallel in all his parliamentary
experience. During the whole time of the Crimean war,
during the negotiations respecting the treaty and the sub.
sequent dispute on the Principalities, and throughout the
disturbances in India, there were many occasions on which
the Opposition, if so minded, could have dealt towards
the Government a good deal more than mere casual un•
friendly criticism. He had a strong persuasion that if
those on his side had then been occupying the Opposition
benches, a very different course would have been pursued.
Unless his memory deceived him, when they had the plea-
sure of occupying those benches before, they had more
party divisions in three weeks than the gentlemen now in
office had ventured on in three years. So far did they
carry their forbearance to the late Government that they
frequently paid its supporters the compliment of saying
that they preferred their leader to their own. He remem•
bered he was rather astonished to hear at an election in
his county an hon. friend of his belonging to the opposite
side state on the hustings that he was determined to give
his support to the noble lord the member for Tiverton tie-
cause he believed him to be the best Tory in the house.
As one of the majority by whose votes the late Go-
vernment had been displaced, by what his hon.
friend had described as a discreditable manoeuvre,
and accepting all the consequences of that vote, Mr.
Horsman reasserted his opinion that the downfall of
the late Government and the disorganisation of the

party arose from that fatal and inveterate habit of
the noble lord lately at the head of the Government
of "always looking to the opposite benches for sym•
pathy and support., and turning the cold shoulder
to his friends"—

Always more intent upon neutralising and conciliating
his foes than on confirming his friends—relying too much
upon his own adroitness and dexterity for that permanent
strength which could only arise from solid fidelity to prin-
ciples—and, above all, imagining that the powerful, ear-
nest, and high-nettled majority which was so triumphantly
given him last April had no other mission to fulfil than to
support the personal position of the Minister instead of
the principles of a party.
This fatal confidence, carelessness, and false security
had led to so fatal and rapid a change that, whereas
in August last they bad left the house a united party,
under the most powerful Minister that had been seen
since the Reform Bill, they had reassembled in Feb-
ruary a disunited and disbanded party, under a
Minister who they knew could not long remain in
office:—

When, therefore, his hon. friend asked the present Go-
vernment what their principles were, the right hon. gen-
tlemen opposite with perfect truth replied, " Tell us what
were the principles which you as a Government maintained
three weeks ago ?" Why, feat was a question which some
of those who sat near him had asked themselves in vain.
Was it the principle of parliamenpry reform? That was
indefinitely postponed. Was it religious freedom? Upon
that point the answer was most complete. The conduct
of three members of the present Cabinet on this subject
did them great honour, and that of the right hen. gentle-
man (Mr. Disraeli) in particular had been of a character
which would make it impossible to speak of him other-
wise than with respect. But what was the position of the
Liberal party on this question ? For the first time in the
history of the Liberal party, to its disgrace and shame, that
question of religious freedom upon which their most glo-
rious victories had been obtained was made an open ques-
tion in a Liberal Cabinet. That was done last year. This
year the question had been abandoned by the Cabinet, and
intrusted to more vigorous and liberal hands. On the
question of church rates, again, what were their principles ?
Every one had heard, either from his constituents or front
hon. members who were present, that when a large and
important deputation waited upon the late Premier upon
the subject of church rates, they were stung with indigna-
tion because their reception had not been such as they
had a right to expect. Was it, again, the principle of ad-
ministrative reform and the pure dispensation of patron-
age? How was that illustrated in what he could not other-
wise characterise than as the shabby nepotism which in
the county of Kent and at Manchester filched from their
legitimate claimants those professional appointments that,
contrary to all precedent, had been misappropriated to the
aristocratic connections of the Cabinet? Was it then, last
of all, the maintenance of the independence and honour of
the country? The vote which had displaced the noble
lord had given the reply to this question.
He thought it right to bring all these facts to the
remembrance of the noble lord (Palmerston) In
order that they might be well pondered over "before
office."i
be returned to (A laugh.) He heard it said
that it was unwise to allow the present Government
to remain undisturbed in office, because the Liberal
party might otherwise fail to get them out until next

year, and they might do a power of mischief in the
meantime:—

He doubted the inclination of right hon. gentlemen
opposite to do mischief. He could not refuse to ad-
mit that the present Government comprised in their
party very much of the intelligence, wealth, and character
of the country. Their leaders were men of high honour
and undoubted patriotism, and, so far as great actions
were involved, the leaders of that house were equally to
be trusted from whatever party they might be taken.
Power at present was apparently deposited with the Oppo-
sition. He believed that the Opposition could control and
dictate every measure, and that their power as a party was
greater on that side the house than where they sat six
weeks ago. He believed that the interests of truth and of
progress would be more surely promoted by real liberality
in an Opposition than by sham liberality in ofti2e. While
it would be a most desirable state of things to see a popu-
lar Administration in power, with its adversaries in Oppo-

. •
sition, vet lie was sstistied that the most unsatisfactory,
the most unsafe, and the most unwholesome of all condi-
tions was a state of things in which there was neither a

too on the other.

on one side nor a Liberal Opposi-

He would not say that the house ought to be satis-
fied with the cry of " measures, not men," for he
agreed with Mr. Canning when he said, " When you
say I am to look to measures and not men, you might
us well tell me I am to look at the harness and not
at the horses that draw the coach."

Lord JOHN RUSSELL, with considerable gravity of
demeanour, reminded the house that he, at least,
had, during the many years that he had been in the
house, pursued a policy which he considered reform.
ing, and that upon all the great questions of religious
and civil liberty, upon questions relating to the
Roman Catholics, the Protestant Dissenters, and
the Jews, and upon the questions of reform and
commercial liberty or free trade, he had been opposed
to the views of the Conservative party. Lord John
Russell then disclaimed any wish to embarrass the
present Government, and believed that they ought
not to be urged to make a premature declaration of
their policy. He was prepared to wait for, and
judge upon their merits, the measures which the
Ministry might bring in.
Mr. DRUMMOND considered that the exclusion of
the Whigs for seventy years from office was the real
key to the Reform Bill of '32.
Lord PALMERSTON, speaking in the name of
"those who sit on these (Opposition) benches," dis-
claimed any intention of offering to the present Go-
vernment a factious opposition. The noble lord
then passed to the circumstances of his recent
defeat, and in reply to Mr. Horsman said he was
glad to receive support from any part of the house
in favour of measures for the public good :
We regretted when measures had not the support of
those 14 ho sat on the same side as ourselves, but we
rejoiced to find that any portion of the house approved of
the course which we thought just. And I must say that I
think the occasional support which we received from
members who did not habitually act with us was as credit-
able to the Government as it was h,nourabte to those who
gave it ; and undoubtedly, if again it should be our lot to be
responsible for the conduct of affairs, I should not think
myself acting otherwise than in accordance with the
interests of the country merely because our measures
might receive the support of those who did not generally
act with us.

Lord Palmerston then endeavoured to explain his
principles :

Now, sir, when my right hon friend seems to imply that
am not a Liberal, but a Tory, I beg leave to remind him
that in all those measures of domestic policy which my
noble friend the member for the city of London has
brought forward, and in which he takes, and justly, so
much pride, I acted with him, and gave him all the support
in my power.

Ho then reviewed in detail the measures he had
proposed and passed during his Administration,
which he declared lie left with confidence to the
impartial verdict of the country.
The report was then agreed to.
The house then went into a Committee of Supply
upon the Supplementary Army Estimates and
Revenue Estimates.

After some further business, the house adjourned
at five minutes to nine o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS—ThEsnAy.
FREE IMMIGRATION OF NEGROES.

Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from the
Anti Slavery Society, complaining of She results
of the free immigration of negroes into the Island of
Guadaloupe under the sanction of the French
Government.

'fhe Earl of MALMESBURY said that since he had
held office no information had been sent home from
any of her Majesty's consuls with regard to the cir-
cumstances to which the noble lord had referred
as having taken place at Guadaloupe. Ile quite
agreed with the noble lord that the distinction
between " free emigration " and the old slave trade
was a distinction without a ditferen^e; and her
Majesty's Government would use their utmost endea
yours to put an end to the practice. But of course
they could only interfere in eases where there was a
slme-trade treaty in existence.

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