The Express.
London, England, 1852-06-24 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—WEDNESDAY, JUNE 23.
The hr AAAAA took the chair at 12 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The Lords' Amendments to the North British Flan Con-
pany (Claueseo's Patent) Bill, were agreed to.
Spakting's Estate
LIC Bill was B
read I
• third time and pawed.
P U U S N ESS.
PETITIONS PRESENTED.
Bernell Ruyan —By Sir B. HALL, from llaryleboae,
fur the suppression of letting.homea.
COLONIAL CHURCH.—SYNODICAL ACTION.
Me. GLADSTONE having moved the home into com-
mittee in order to the introduction of a second bill on
this ,übjeet, said he would explain. with the greatest pos-
sible brevity, the object he had in view in submitting the
resolution he was about to propose.
After an observation from Sir J. PAILIXOTON, who im-
puted deviation from ordinary forms.
Mr. ULADSTONE explained that no such deviation had
taken pleec. His object was to introduce certain amend-
ments into the bill, and to base it printed in • complete
form, and transmitted to the colonies, so that they might
emeoler it during the recto*, in order to its being laid
before the house in another, and ho hoped an early,
session. Ile felt that, in the present state of pub-
lic business and of parliament, lie could not hope,
as an independent member, to carry a bill so op-
posed, and lie should therefore wit prem the recital
reading. But the notice the bill had attracted,
tad the interest it had excited in the colonies to be affected
by it, rendered it incumbent upon him to send it thither in
the best Coin. The bill he had alnady introduced had not
been rejected, but stood wetting for a second reading. lie
did not ask the hou-e to sanction that measure further
than it haul already done, but to let him re-introduce it in
an amended tuna as • separate bill, to be read • first time
and printed. He was satisfied with the position in which
the question stood, and with toe universal admission
that legislation for the purpose of devising means for the
management of the ecclesiastical affairs of the colonies was
absolutely necessary. And the kind of legislation which
must Ise adopted hid also become clear, namely, the en-
abling the pada" who were interested to relieve themselves
from their sin their own way, and to regulate their
affairs an circuratenees might require. He adverted to this,
because words of omnoive import bad, on the former discus-
sion .falle n from the Colonial Secretaryeeterring to thiChurch
Discipline Act, and the prosihility of framing • measure
for the colonies on the model of that act. This course he
strongly protested against, and believed that no House of
Common- would accede to such an interference with the
domestic regaletiors of the colonies. The question was
between • permisuve bill and doing nothing, and the sense
of the house had been distinctly declared in favour of the
former. Ile then adverted to the communication of the
Bishop of Sydney. formerly referred to by Sir J. Pakiagton,
and cite! a pasiogo (which the latter hail not quoted) as
distinctly to the effect of what be (Mr. Gladstone) had
communicated to Sir J. Pakington, and as contrary to a
passage Sir John bad read. The right hon. gen-
tleman made three other objections. He complained that
the bill was 30 worded that it was difficult to see precisely
what its operation would be, but that probably it would
ban• a threefold effect. First, that it would place the
church of England in the colonies in • petition of domi
Mane over all other religious communities there ; secondly,
that it would break up that church into • number of small
separate church(' ; and, thirdly, that it would tend to de-
stroy the supremacy of the crown ; and upon this latter
point he must remark that he regretted the tone of tune.
ration which pervaded the whole of the right bon. gentle-
man's observations—a tone so elm :Fended, indeed, that,
had it been justified by anything in the bill, every gentle-
man in the house might well hare asked—if this measure is
indeed so preposterous, and contains such monstrous enact-
ment.—how happens it that the government ever waseated
ti the second ri ailing ? (Hear, bear.) The skit bee.
gentleman alleged that one effect of the bill woad be is
place the church of England in those colonies in which it
would apply in • state of dominance ; yet in half an
hole aft, rwards his hon. friend and colleague ia the
representation of the University of Oxford tear and
objected to the bill because it reduced the chard reari
land in the colonies to the legal level of dinentles
mime, and the right hon. gentlemen amity melsedioled
that olueetion in a subeequent part a the sow womb.
when, after complaining of the get es, 18161•161.71611118
of the bill, by winch it was declared lawful he the aura ,
in the colonies to make regulation for We medest sad ma.
nagement of her own affairs, afterward/. reeseriag to the
nth cisme, which provided that no such regeletiess shield
have greater force th in these of other religiose weisew
alone, he said that the effect of this deem wield be W
antraliac the first. (Hear, hear.) Thea, with NOM le
the objection that the measure would MI to break up the
established church, how had the right bee. gentleman 1116•
devoured to prove that objection ? lie said he had be.
him • all, the tendency of which was In the bawls
of the bishep, clergy, mil Wier of the tll obera, sub-
ject to such nntrietzelel epeireee 1114/1111= en-
tire management of their own smissiestisal mad that
the effect of that would be that each diocese would become
• distinct church, and the separatioa of the church of Eng-
land in the colonies would be complete; and immediately
after he quoted the wutientats of the biehapeaMmly, and
laity of that church, showing that th:y WWI all mint sager
for the maintenance of their eonnezion wide dr &Mb in
this country. (llear, hear.) The third main ern "ffthre
right hon. baronet was that it want denim
of the crown. Ile (Mr. Gladstone) UM >felh 7e 111111
advert to this part of the subject, Meow% be emit de
so without complaining of the wminerge in which the right
honourable gentleman had daft with it. The right
honourable gentleman had altogether omitted to inform the
bowie that the bill required subscription to the T
sine Articles of the church, and invalidated all &MD:Ills net
conformity with them. And when it we. Tensible&
those articles, as the right hon. gentleman meld M halt
have known, recognised and inured upon the sememegy
of the crown, the charge that the hill went to deem the
supremacy became ridiculous. limn howurver, mean:
ties whether he was right in 'bikini le gexpin
oath of supremacy should be 'ahem led weeles_setieled
with the declaration required by the anion. The
hoe. gentleman hail found belt with him refuel explairE
the enactments of the bill in this respect in the speed
which he introduced the semenee. but the sight boa. get
Heinen could not have feegaMae that MO Rasa we
made under the primers a VIM ad SWIM 118.411••
pelted to confine himself to the NNW mdlmbemy perms
the present state of the law, and On dein elf lha Nimbi
for legislation and he was the loin new e. hi rarer
into any explanation of the wwwwass ening SEA the es.
since of the bill was its relieving damer the eldest being
to leave Om colonies theteadmis ie Wan their own
lions under such restricting peginent might 0=1;
to require, end whether them sielehtions were many or few
—for that was merely a meshes of expediency—he had no
fear, fudging from the 111111111111111 M of the episcopal church
in the United States of Amalie. that the connexion of the
ehuri h in those colonies with the church of England, as
established in this esseiy, would be in no danger.
The goodwill and alletise of the peals was the surest
foundation on which Mat meat sion seekl rest ; if, how-
ever, danger was nppeebsnded, let them guard against it by
restrictions; if not, let the leave the bill as free and
simple in that rupee as possible. (Hear, hear.) But
this being a point of ammiderable immanence, he was de-
tarous the house should understand clearly the principle as
which he asked them le proceed, Memo in the amended
bill it was hie Westin to lan the swamis mashy se
they stood ia the bill already below Se beets, thee wee, be
proposed to leave the doctrine of supremos, to stand as it did
in the Thirty nine Artiel • and he task that mum Meow
they were not row previdiag a new lesidahm swim lot
the church in the selmin awe deciding whether the oath et
supremacy should be mien is the ealseise, bet simply en-
acting • series of enablingcnime Is ailed to the Mane
in the colonies to take, if' se pleased, the mmesemeet
of their own affairs. He dam on gads was • proper re-
Tarawa* le far as England was osesersed, immauch as
ben the euestioo of pepressacy wee a greet pith& owl ma-
Mod questim, and bad beet 9O ewe sines the igligrag.
hen. It was is the Taiga of Elisabeth, the tibial, Ihres.
the liege on width Me whole difference between' the es
famed and the umehrtned churches tarred—and the
whisk government an tenor of the law and the chink
beim established ea that dowries efr , it applied
fa Monet every eat of the Mole sad la sleet every preset&
Ins of the aura, and seempeally the ma was seem
eery. But whether sr not the nth of se
the hest form of applying that pdosiple in Ptta:=Mes.will
was a different question. He by se seam
.wished a my
tbst there should be no oath of supremacy is the selemien
but ha would leave it to themselves in eal whether=
would assert the supremacy by the ne
in the Thine-nine Articles, or wheal, they would mew
add to that declaration an oath. He Masi le pa se fur-
ther in the matter than to indicate the span white
he would proceed. The principle en Muhl bids-
late on all nalcsial affairs, civil end medlenteleals was that
every gushes epee which as inesdel Whine amid est be
distinctly thews amid be hit te be munged end leek
smith by the calsoise thomealese. (Hear.) His intention was
that the hill Mena be wlieving, end pennies
rather then entWetri owl he whiled, therefore, to remove
t be objection which bad bees tam, that it was an eaeet-
in measure. Another shame* /wt/mad to mobs la the
sac ne elause—ta introduce • reassoatise of the
poi Ter of the colonial legislature. He did est seem to say
that such a reserv.tion was absolutely neesseary, he when
they said simnly that nothing eastansi ia the Wee et this
men fey should be held to pzezmrenteLanigilhim peiAewlag
ccrtai n uwas b, there no p Eased that the power
of the olonial legislature was laterheed with ; but to obviate
all mien pprebension on it, it enign be well to reserve the
power o the colonial legislature Is Man words, and he
proposed to insert words for the psipM. There was one
other site ration which be might mention. The ri .ht hon.
baronet an el other. had taken objection to the phrase
"(teetered members of the church of England." That was
an objection which would have come more appropriately,
he felt, from any hon. member rather thea the right hon.
gentleman, b 'cease in this country we did not know is re-
pel te the eh each what " declared member meant ; but in
the mirmi,• th a term was got only well known, but had en
established, he, id, and legal meaning. Is Van Dienon's
Land, for tritium et, every perms was ealled spas to " de-
clare '* his religio 'us pet.wition fee the purpose of the OW.
; and with Mine to other colonise, were the words had
no practical offset, the phrase would leave them neither is
a worse or a better tiosition; but to meet the objection he
proposed to subetitutt the words " being declared a bone
Me member of the Clnareb of England." This was a phrase
he had won adopted in mute e'tlonial acts, and was probably
the best he meld employ. If had as further esplnnstion
to otter as to (be details of the amendoesata, except that he
proposed to ineNde New Zealand in the bill, and to make
provisions for the minor dependencies of th.ve colonies, by
words in the schedule. believed he had now 'taw all

that was sideseary to make his object intelligiblee-what
wished was, to pines this bill in precisely Os ems pelt*,
as the previous bill new stood in—that was, that ffi skald
le billedoced and laid as the tabby, sad that it shook then
le Fisted mad meat est to the esker as a eadilld Mistier
the rears -inward. (Hem.) Aul Minh ha regretted,
and though le free mom the ahoy Mied4 wpm the delay
which smatimeaseeseuily Isiervem=relima could
take plaite,ea the ether lima helms *Medi that
to paused mationdy. NM with jealousy, mad Mid destiny
in the emli wed the whale ma userisi seane, and
that am eriabliateromasset
g die hems le reeememeame Me dieeramdes of the
eat take& in die dent maim Mika better kmewleigeef the hem
sad of the whiled the colonists des they mew
that delay would astbe without its advantage", =antra
to submit the remiatien, "That the chairman be directed
to move the harms that leave be given to bridg in a bill to
neieve bishops bee colonies in communion with the church
of England, east the clergy and laity in oemearemisa with
them, in reaped to legal doultts or disabilities effiseling the
management of their church affairs." (Hear.)
Sir J. PAK INGTON said that in the speech which it
had been his duty to make on the subject some weeks ego,
he stated with the greatest sincerity what be now repeated,
that he did nut entertain a moment's doubt that the right
hoe. gentleman, in bringing forward his bill, had been I
actuated by the purest and mist conscientious motive.,
and he knew nothing in his public life that had given him
more pain than the reeling to which he had been driven,
that he was unable, in his responsible position as a minister
of the crown, to comment upon a measure brought in by the
right bon. gentleman, or to comment upon the language he
might have used in recommending it, without the distres-
sing conviction that he gave him personal offence. (Hear,
hear.) But he must declare that in the previous stages of
the bill he exhausted courtesy in his communications with
the right hon. gentleman. So far was he from entertaining
any wish—remembering, as he did, the long kindness that
had existed between them—so far was he from wishing to
make a public exposure of the bill, that un three several oc-
elliiolll, on the very day before the last motion on the sub-
ject was made by the right hon. gentleman, he (Sir John
Pakington) wrote to him in the kindest terms, expressing
the deep regret he should feel at being compelled to speak
freely of the bill, but that he must do so if the measure
were peered. [Some explanations here passed between the
right lion. member and Mr. Gladstone, after which, Sir
J.Pakington went oa to say]—The right hon. gentleman had
asked that the debate might be postponed, and he (Sir J.
Pakington) considering that be should have been wanting
in his duty had he permitted the bill to go forth to the colo-
nists with merely a formal objection, without reasons, on the
part of the government, had insisted on stating his grounds
of objection, atthe same time concluding with a motion, in
order that the right hon. gentleman might have an oppor
tunity to speak again. Now, at the end of five weeks, the
right hon. gentlemen made an elaborate reply to his (Sir J.
Pakington s) observations, to which, if be followed the
right hon. gentleman's example, he must promise a re-
joinder in the next parliament. lie should not, however,
take that count., but trouble the house with a few sen-
tences on the present occasion. The right hon. gentleman had
given as a Tema for not pressing the second reading, his
anxiety thst the government should not stultify itself by
opposing a bill the principle of which some of its members
had already supported. He (Sir J. Pakington) was grateful
der thdm tenderness fee the ministerial reputation, but he saw
IN NOM is forme votes of certain members of the govern-
able* tea years dose ea the Australian Bill wliy those
MilabllM ahead met be free to exercis2 a sound discretion
naafiprowaing te many dilficulties of construction as
Me resent, and ildi was anon to so essay grave and
modem objections. The dolt hon. gentleman had urged
the interest leis la the edesime me a reams for pressiag
by-
gislation, end lei aemplebei of his ((Sir J. Pakington's)
tobell die mewreference
peopoeal over pending the referen
rI had base mate by the Primate of England to the
awdopolitaa of dyer* But ho had nothing to retract of
that oburratioe, r maw as decurastances could he be a
=to such a monk of diemspeet to the Archbishop of
rebury and the Nam of Sydaey as to legislate on a
stetter upon which they had been consulted, until their
=aubed been received and eo sidered. He denied the
slleged by the right hen. gentleman between
that put of the Bishop of S)dney's letter which he had
'meted and other portions of the same letter. It was perfectly
modal in the earlier partof the letter the Bishop of Sydney
=a hope that the minutes of conference should be
indicating the wishes of the clergy and laity, but
*MP wonreasons why, for the purposes of legislation,
those minutes were not sufficient. As he (Sir J. Peking-
ton) bad stated in his previous speech that conference had
excited coedderable alarm among the clergy and laity in
Essay of the colonies, and therefore he thought it would be•
militate hi meet pt its minutes as a basis for legislation. On
the amtrary, he expected from what had taken place in
Tommie that they should receive the full benefit of delay,
and simald not have reason to regret that they heti acted on
the receipt of the right hoc. gentleman's private informs-
lion. The right hon. gentlemen had proceeded to notice
the three objections which, on the former occasion, he (Sir
J. Pakington) had taken to his bill, and loth, first place bad
denied that it had any preposterous tendencies or monstrous
enactments. He was sorry to say that after all the time he
had had for consideration he could not recede from his
former opinion, but maintained that the bill heel three ten-
dencies of a most objectionable nature. One was that its
tendency was to break up the Church of England into
fragments. He bad not come to that conclusion, as
stated by the right honourable gentleman, from
the addresses or letters of the bishops ia Aus-
tralia, but from the tendency of the bill keen' to invade
the enermeacy of the crown. lie believed that the right
hon. gentleman, in introducing this principle, wasnot
consulting the wishes of the people of the colonies, but he
was confirmed in the fact of its existence by three high
legal authorities, the Attorney-General, the hon. and
learned member for the town of Oxford, and the hon. and
I learned member for Aylesbury. The right hon. gentleman
had answered this objection by saying that the oath of su-
premaey was contained in the Thirty-nine Articles, being
the 37th. Of coarse he had never supposed that the right
hon. gentleman meant to dispense with subscription to the
Thirty-Use Articles ; but taking the dispensing with the
eetb at say Is esseeziou with the establishment of
mad ether principles of the bill, he
ttriet atiala—Mberelee thee that its tendency was to in-
vade die wqrsisissy d the down. He (Sir J. Pakington)
bat ode onnermlet ea the remarkable fact that for the first
tow la the Moony Odle aburch it would be possible under
this bill der a ideogram to receive ordination without
'tabu. do and atememeecy, being merely required to take
*lin& ef 01011111111. That bad been his argument, and
at do yeomen massite be had heard nothing from the right
boa. gendemea seetrovert it. (Hear, hear.) The right
hes. gestlemes hid sew moved for leave to bring in a
till in precisely the Name words. (Mr. Gladstone : " No.")
Well, if it was as amended bill he should have the left
difficulty in giving his consent to its introduction. He
hoped that this grave objection would be removed, and ha
should reserve its further consideration for a future swim
of parliament, reserving also to himself full power to make
say objections se might think proper. After whit bei
passed he should not consider himself emulated kom the
intention he had formerly expressed, should the immellia
not be dealt with satisfactorily, sot to permit it to ram The
desire of the colonists for as improved organisable elf the
church mod sot be neglected, sad nukes ear eadielliesery
legislation Mesh take phase lie Might marider Is his duty
himself to mem ia the madam (Hear, hem) Oa the
other lied, if the right Ma. gendsman deed seamed in
preparing a bill tree tram the eldietlims be bet elated,
time was so member ef the dem welt be awe ready to
gliCrit than Wendt (Hoer, bar.)
iCHAIRMAN, preview le prattiag the rasektiaa,
sailed Kr. Oladaloee'e at le Se diet that it wee idea-
deal in spirit with the dram nomlatim. A dhwereima
sassed ea the point of order, which wee ultimately reined
te t drakes. Under the Speaker's dreetion, on masted
midden emprepured, which
Tbo CHAIRMAN put es follows: *TIM the Chairman
be Amsted to !Meg is a bin to explain mil mend the kw
ratilisg_to die shovel in the colonies."
Ha.
Ha HORSHAM eempleimil that Min Gladstone's maim
He et deltas with the quietism was adds, fair nor AIM.
Int fries/ft mit tbat &bore woes ealmmetost denies
1:=llie amour* ; bet Ida lb, bile=
ie be a revolutionary mrarme tit
an ectismindisel tyranny. He (Mr. Ilaressaid
proved., die muse Sir J. Filename bed takerl2_ Z
Oludome at
am bees able is smear the right lernenr-
able besonet's amobing ammo= tbe messum Mr.
Oleadinure pally is lie ekwels, Andors no smomilly is
Ibis eirmery, bat toneed its attendee te the colonies, mod
Ms. Oledblases Adore was not mush to remove colonial
realtdak bat to deem the erten silsbiW,ed at the
we it do some form of primly
Mr. e
to give up sodden
IS de yen of the wClPinsuglis to obtain the free-
dom at emmileal moles, wheat the dimeters had obtained
filar W.
PACE WOOD thee** lie bill was much im-
proved by the smomboolets, ant elbeinved that dr. lime-
, man, when at a louts email smarara, was in the habit of
imputing motives. It was shamed le eontsud that a bill like
' this, the avowed tilled of while was to give increased
strength to the laity, *mild tent le the establishment of
ecelesiastical domination. He possetel to show the ad.
maser which orimiestion gime ta the church of Rome,
mad to urge that whom tirade dome were
.given to the
church of Regius', am Muzak was preportionately sue-
useful. And he amdlutied with eardhee mbake to Kr.
Honman foe his adidstpf_iiii Christina dinky.
Mr. DUTY AM mum did that dr W. P. Wood had
answered Sir J.
_WiJilraa. aid =eft but his confidence
in the latter mad Whim Mei M mere to the admission of
the bill. He yermieted May that the Colonial Secretary
had so exhausted the argument that he could only repeat
it, when
Lord R. GROSVENOR suggested that, if that were all
that was to be done, it might bc as well to proceed to other
bullies'. _ _ .

After a few further obeervatieas, and some amicable ex-
planations between Mr. OLADSTONS and Sir J. rA XINOTON
upon the point of personal feeling,
The resolution was agreed to, end the house resumed.
Mr. BERNAL reported the resolution, and leave was
given to bring in the bill.
The Public Health (1848) Act Amendment Bill wee read
a third time, and passed. The Metropolitan Burials Bill,
and the General Board of Health Bill, and the Colonial
Bishops Bill passed through committee.
The Friendly Society the Patent Law Amendment, the
Crime and Outrage (Ireland), the Encumbered Estates
(Ireland), the Distressed Unions (Ireland), School Sites
Extension, and l'roperty of Lunatics Bills were read a tbird
time and pared ; and certain amendments to the Secretary
of Bankrupts Abolition 8.11 were agreed to.'
METROPOLITAN SEWEIt9 BILL.
_

On the etOtionthsttitit;killke;endiili;iiiinte,
Mr. PETO took ocean= to explain the Tenon why he
and ilk e+.lleantles—Sir W. Cuhitt, Mr. Stephomon, and
Mr, newlall—had roeigned their oektes as eomminioners of