The Press.
London, England, 1858-05-01 00:00:00

MASTERS AND WORKMEN.

Mr. MACKINNON moved for leave to bring in a bill
to enable masters and workmen to form councils of
conciliation and arbitration.

The motion was seconded by Mr. THORNELY and
assented to by Mr. WALPOLE.
Leave was then given to bring in the bill.
COUNTY FRANCHISE.

Mr. L. KING sought leave to introduce a bill to ex-
tend the franchise in counties in England and Wales,
and to improve the representation of the people in
respect of such franchise. Observing that., in the
hopelessness of obtaining any comprehensive measure
of reform, the only course left was to enforce in detail
improvements in the electoral system, the boa. mem-
ber proceeded to describe his measure. The chief
feature of the bill was to extend:the franchise to 101
householders in counties ; and its effect, as he con.
tended, would be to remove many of the anomalies
and inequalities which now existed.in the represents-
live system of the country.
Mr. BYNO seconded the motion.
The CHANCELLOR of the ExcuE4aEft objected to
the bill, not because it extended the franchise, but
on account of its partial (-partition. In practice he
believed that the measure would create worse ano-
malies than it removed. If passed it would inter
pose serious difficulties in the construction of any
comprehensive scheme of reform. The county
electorate already gave, on an average, 3,300 voters
to every member, while in the boroughs the number
was only 1,280; and this disproportion must undergo
serious aggravation if the present proposal was
adopted. Declaring that the Government would
seriously devote themselves to the preparation of a
general Reform Bill, Mr. Disraeli met the present
motion by moving .as an amendmentithe.previous
question.
Lord J. RUSSELL thought the bill now presented
was calculated to effect a moderate and beneficial
reform ; and as it was so difficult to pass a large
measure, the house would, in his opinion, do wisely
to accept it as an instalment. He felt more distrust
than hope touching the reforming professions of the
present Administration, and on that account also he
wished not to let go the bill now offered, and which
he regarded as a " bird in the hand."
Mr. LABOUCHERE also supported the motion,
sharing the doubts expressed by Lord John as to the
prospects of a Reform Bill next session.
The discussion was continued by some brief remarks
from Mr, Philipps, Mr. J. Locke, Mr. Clay, Mr.
Bentinek, :qr. Collins, Mr. Stanhope, and other
members.

The question was then put with the amendment,
but the latter was not pressed, and the motion was
agreed to without a division.
Mr. JOHN LOOFA obtained leave to bring in a bill
to amend the Act 0 and 6 William.lV., c. 03, relating
to weights and measures.
Mr. PULLER moved a resolution :

That this house will tomorrow resolve ItseK into a
oommittee to oonsider the expedieney of providing for the
repair of churches cud the inaintiniuft of ohurohyards,
by substituting for 'hush Wes sash an annual rent.
nUme upon all Itinkikiamals In rapist of wbleit shank
rtes nay NW be bllfftilly 4111.11N4 upon the 00040011

will fairly represent the total annual amount now raised
by church rates ; such rent-charge to be a fixed and uni-
form poundage on the rateable value of such haredits-
meow, and to be made a charge on the owners.
- - -

Mr. Burrow moved, as an amendment, the fol-
lowing resolutions :

That it is desirable that in some parishes power should
be given to make an addition, to a limited amount, to the
tithe, in order to maintain the !abaci of the eharches ;
and

That in some parishes in towns power should be given
to the churchwardens or the vestry to place a rental on a
certain proportion of the sittings.

Sir G. LEWIS entirely dissented from the plan of
Mr. Puller, because he proposed a general, new, and
compulsory charge upon the real property of the
country for the purposes of the Church, the present
rate being a parochial rate, imposed by the vestry ;
and he would impose the tax in all those parishes
where church rates had been practically abolished.
He objected to Mr. Buxton's amendment upon similar
grounds ; that would also impose a new general
charge upon real property. The house, be said,
must choose between a total and immediate abolition
of church rates, and a modified form of the ex-
isting rates.
Mr. NEM:MOAT& supported Mr. Puller's motion.
Lord J. Russell. said, after hearing this dis-
cussion, he was compelled to say that the objec-
tions of Sir G. Lewis to Mr. Puller'e plan appeared
to him to be sound ones. At the same time we
could not have a national establishment without
some provision for maintaining the fabric of the ,
church; he could not, therefore, vote for Sir J.
Trelawny's bill, but he was ready to consider any
fair proposal for an equivalent.
Mr. WALPOLE agreed that the abolition of church
rates without an equivalent would be putting into
the pockets of the landlords what did not belong to
them. But the objections of Sir G. Lewis to Mr.
Puller's plan were, he admitted, unanswerable. He
pressed the members of the late Government to
bring forward substantially the propositions upon
this question which they announced when in office.
After some observations by Mr. WIGRIX in sup-
port of the motion,
Mr. BUXTON withdrew his amendment., and
Mr. PULLER offered to withdraw his motion, but
this was opposed, and, upon a division, it was nega-
tived by 317 to 54.
A warm discussion then arose upon the subject of
a bill to amend the law of church rotes, of which
notice bad been given by Mr. Moots, but which was
not then pressed.
The remaining business and orders of the day
having been gone through, the house adjourned at
five minutes before one o'clock.

HOUSE OF

-WEDNZ SDI. T.

Mr. CORD, in moving the second reading of the
Agricultural Statistics Bill, showed how the want of
information upon this important subject affected the
interests of the producers of food, the consumers,
and the monetary and commercial interests of the
country. The first class included small as well as
rich farmers, who equally suffered, he sail, from
ignorance of these statistics. Upon the second &ass,
more especially the great mass of the labouring com-
munity, a sudden and serious rise in the price of
bread, caused by this want of knowledge, bore
severely ; while the fluctuations in the price of cereal
produce, and the enormous sums paid for imports of
foreign corn, deeply affected the third class, tending
to produce commercial crises. He then explained
what was done in foreign countries, and the steps
taken in this country to obtain agricultural statistics,
and the machinery of his bill, which was framed, he
observed, to meet objections, and which contained
no provisions that could be considered compulsory.
Mr. Pace". moved to defer the second reading for
six months. The farmers, he said, to whom it was
alleged this measure would be of use, were alarmed
at it, and he wanted to know why farmers should he
singled out-to have their affairs inquired into. He
dwelt upon the obnoxious, and, as he contended,
the inquisitorial and compulsory character of certain
clauses of the bill, and observed that the only peti-

lion on this subject from farmers—those of Lincoln-
shire—prayed the house to reject this bill upon those
grounds.
Mr. Du CANE seconded this amendment.
Sir G. LILWIS observed that, although he believed
that the fears of the agricultural interest with re-
ference to the collection of these statistics were un-
founded, and that the alarm had been much dissi-
pated, the question remained whether they would be
of any real benefit. He did not believe that they
would be of the smallest practical present value, and
he cited the opinion of Mr. Tooke, who said that,
however desirable agricultural statistics might be in
a general point of view, they were not likely to have
the slightest induenoe in imputing steadiness to the
markets, He should like to know, he said, what
would be the probable espouse of oolleetlag these
6ffrieillturel etotlities is EngUM. Toying opt of

426

consideration the compulsory and inquisitorial objec-
tion, the true question, he thought, was whether,
when these statistics were got, they would be worth
the price paid for them.
Mr. DRUMMOND agreed with Sir G. Lewis that
these statistics would not make, and never could
nuke, the smallest difference, or be of the slightest
utility in a practical point of view. Mr. Caird, he
said, bad not drawn a distinction netween farmers
and speculators in corn. The farmer should not be
encouraged to sell or refuse to sell. Let him bring
his corn to market as he wanted, and not be turned
into a speculator.
Mr. TURNER supported the bill.
Mr. BENTINCK objected to, the principle and the
machinery of the bill, which he believed, could pro-
cure no information that would he really useful.
Mr. K. SEYMER strenuously opposed the bill.
Pressed by domestic and foreign competition, the
British farmer, he said, grew as much corn as he
could, and he was not to be required to furnish in-
formation not extorted from other traders. The
object of the bill was to obtain returns of the acreage;
but while that was certain, the yield was uncertain.
Valuable information mightl always be got from pri-
vate enterprize as to the prospects of crops.
Mr. Bass observed that it had not been shown
that any harm could be done by the bill, in support
of which he suggested how the want of knowing the
quantity of barley grown affected his own large pur-
chases of that grain.
. . . . .

Mr. CARDWELL considered that the British farmer
was the person most interested in obtaining these
statistics. If a large purchaser of barley, like Mr.
Bass, told them that it was interesting to him to
obtain such knowledge, how much more so must it
be to the farmer! He admitted that a compulsory
measure would entirely fail, since it was not ana-
logous to our other institutions, and not congenial to
the feelings of the country ; and, looking at the
machinery of the bill,,he recommended Mr. Caird to
withdraw it.

Mr. HENLEY said the first great difficulty of this
subject had been created ten years ago by the course
taken by the then Government, the effect of which
was to excite a feeling throughout the agricultural
districts hostile to these statistics; and this feeling
bad been increased by a more recent attempt to
make their collection compulsory. He then pro-
ceeded to consider the nature and quality of the in•
formation which the provisions of the bill were
adapted to acquire, the labour and cost of acquiring
it, and ;as suggested by Sir G. Lewis) whether
that information would be worth the expense, of
which, he said, he could form no correct estimate,
He hoped Mr. Caird would take the advice of Mr.
Cardwell and withdraw the bill, the machinery of
which he was convinced would not work.

Mr. Muss was convinced that the agriculturists
throughout England had not the slightest objection
to returns of the acreage, so long as there was no
interference with produce and stock. Taking the
principle of the bill from its preamble he should
vote for it, but be suggested that it should bo left to
the Government to work, out the details of the
measure.

Mr. Stanhope, Sir. J. Shelley, and Mr. Ball spoke
in opposition to the bill.
Mr. CAIaD, in reply, declined to adopt the sugges-
tion of Mr. Cardwell, but would be ready, if the bill
were read a second time, to accept Mr. Miles's recom-
mendation, and leave to the Government the working
out of its principle.
Upon a division, the amendment was carried by
:141 to 135; so the bill is lost.
On the order for the second reeding of the Roads,
kc. (Scotland), Bill, a discussidn arose upon preli-
minary points, which ended in the motion being
withdrawn.

The remaining orders having been disposed or, the
house adjourned at a quarter to six o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS-THURSDAY.
OUDE.

The Earl of ALBEMARLE presented a petition from
Manchester and Salford, praying that the King of
Oude be restored to his throne. Though he (the
Earl of Albemarle) did not approve the policy that
led to the annexation of Oude, yet he could not sup-
port the prayer of the petition.
Earl GRANVILLE asked, in reference to the de-
spatch recommending clemency and discrimination
in the punishment of the Indian mutineers, why it
bad been sent to the Secret Committee of the Court
of Directors, as it was not addressed to any of the
native chiefs or princes ; and whether this was the
legal and usual course?
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH stated that the course
taken was strictly legal. It would have been most
inconvenient to make the subject-matter of that
despatch public before the fall of Lucknow.

DIVORCE BILL.

Lord LYNDHURST inquired whether the Govern-
ment intended to extend the provisions of the
Divorce Bill to Ireland?

The Loin) CHANCELLOR said it was not the inten-
tion of the Government to introduce any measure