The Express.
London, England, 1863-12-26 00:00:00

SPEECH OF K TRIERS ON THE FRENCH

LOAN.

The following is a translation of the speech de,
livered by M. Thiers upon the French loan, in the
Corps Legialatift on Thursday last :

Gentlemen,—l had intended, on the occasion of my
first speech before you, to give you some explanations of
the motives which decided me to appear once more within
these walls, and of the lino of *Deduct. which it is now
my purpose to pursue. But the moment is at hand when
I shall have a better opportunity of doing this. To-day I
come to speak of business, and business only. I like this
better; for politics may sometimes divide, but business
I hope will tend to unite you. I am pleased to-day to have
to speak upon a subject on which we have ideas in corn.
moo, rather than on oar which might be irritating. I
come, then, at once to the great question before us. We
are asked for WO millions to meet expenses
already incurred. It is money due that we are
called upon to provide. Although this expenditure has
been occasioned in great part by an expedition which I
regret extremely—the Mexican expedition—that considera-
tion in no way diminishes either our desire or our duty to
pay the money owing. These expense+ have become
saddled upon the floating debt, and have thus attained the
character of a public debt. The question now befall us is
simply this—is it not desirable to Lander this liability
from the firedog to the consolidated debt' But part pause
with this question there arises this other : Is it not in-
Gumboot upon us to take precautionary measures to pre-
vent the floating debt from swelling again, in the course
of a few months, to the same amount which you now
think unsafe That is the question which I propose to
examine. Although I had rather not mix up politica with
this discoseiou, yet I may perhaps add a few words with
the view of recommending that this loan may have an
essentially pacific character. If it were otherwise, com-
mercial transactions and even diplomacy might be very
much damaged. (Cheers.) I shall endeavour, in the first
place, to define as clearly as possible what the floating
debt is. The word deficit, whish is often used to deecribe
it, does not precisely correspond to the idea which I alway■
bad of the floating debt. The floating debt is sot eve% as I
understand it, a deficit. There is a deficit when a
minister. transgressing legal limits, goes beyond his credit. I,
There is a deficit until he has excused himself before you by
the plea of necessity. But when once a deficit forms part of
the floating debt it becomes a public debt. The floating .
debt is the aggregate of the detente which have not been
provided for either by taxes or kens. A simile will explain
my notion exactly. Let as suppose that a rich beaker,
doing a large badness, and having many correspoodests,
allows himself to be led into engagement► beyond his re-
sources. In that case be resorts to the expedient which is
vulgarly called making money of his signature. Well,

l just so the Treasury is • rich banker ; it receives
from its correspondents considerable nag, which it
applies to current expenses. To raise the surplus it ha,
recourse to its signature and Untie Treasury bills. Now,
what are the limits within which, according to the dict•tee
of prudence, the amount of Tremor, bills should be fixed!
Cadet the Reatoratiou it went as high as from 300 to 350
millions. Under the constitutional goveramest of 1830 it
was sometimes 400, 500, 600, and 700 millions. The lath"
figures appeared to me excessive, and, for my part, I cow
*Wed of them at the time. Ceder the present regime the
floating debt has successively risen to 800 and 900 minims,
and mete to a milliard. The latter has beim the figure foe
the lest two years. That is an amount calculated to cause
amminese, sad it is desirable that it should be reduce:l.
Is it possible Dow to fix, with any certainty, the exact
amount of the reduction which ought to be made in the
issue of these bills? No. But the example of the Mahe
may furnish us with an approximative rule. It resale
from • series of observations that the metallic reserve of a
bank ought to be about oae.third of the amount of it.
imam of paper. This proportion, which in France I. merely
customary , is compelled by legal enactment in England.
A sort of analogy applicable to the floating debt may he
found from these data. The correspondents of the State
are all the great public establishments'. Their feuds are
all fused in one great beak, that of the State. That state
of things is eminently useful ; it is one which bee been cep.
proved of by the most eminent financiers, and especially by
the most eminent of all, one under whom I had the bosom
to serve, Baron Louis. The receivers-general are obliged to
deposit considerable sums with the Treasury, wed always
to be in advanos with it. There we have • hod of about
130 millions. The communes pay into the Treasury the
resources which enable them to meet their authorised en.
poems. There again, you have • fund of about 110 rail.
loam Then there is the Cases dee Consignations, the
Oahe' d'Emargues (savings banks), and the army Caine.
Those are the correspondents of the Tremor', and they
pay altogether about 630 millions a year. This
sum was far from being so conaiderable under former
regimes, it has always borne • proportion to the march of
affairs in the country. Al the movement has developed itself
and as the receipts of the Treasury have augmented, so this
part of the flostiog debt has become more considerable. At
this day the correspondents of the Treasury deposit with it
from GOO 0,630 millions, more or less—let us say 600 minima.
If to this sum we add 100 millions of Treasury bills, that make'
the floating debt 700 millions, I am well aware that the limit
of Treasury bills is difficult to fix exactly. Between the
maximum end the minimum there must necessarily be a cer.
tin margin. I think it would be undesirable to do away with
the circulation of Treasury bills ; they are excellent securities,
sought for by men of business who must have negotiable
paper in their portfolio, and often also by family men who
ass in them a safe and readily. coevertible security. I should
be sorry if the public were to lose the habit of investing
them. There is another reason for keeping up Treasury bills
—namely, that in given circumstances they may become
most precious resource for the State. I was • witness is
1830 of a most serious situation. Our revolution had pro.
yoked armaments throughout Etiropenand France was name.
eerily obliged to arm also. We then passed through mod
difficult days, capital shrunk from the funded debt, and we
were oosopelled to have recourse to Treasury bills. In that way
we mind several hundred millions. This resource ought, then,
to be left to government. But this resource must be
prudently used, otherwise you will exhaust it, and it will
leave you empty. It is therefore nacemary to fix limits. We
propose the limit of 100 millions. Some may say 80 is the
right figure, others 120 ; but at any rate I do say this, that
in ordinary time. it is unreasonable to nee Treasury bills
to • greater extent than 100 or 150 minims ; aad if thst
limit be observed, the floating debt will be kept within 700
millions. We are all agreed that the debt ought to be kept
down to that amount, but we must efficaciously provide
that that shall be so. If you devote 300 millions to
the purpose of reducing that debt from • milliard (which
is as excessive though not an alarming amount) to
700 million, it will not do that at the end of a few months
you should again find yourself saddled with the very mime
figure which you now want to reduce. In this sort of
mistrust., gentlemen, there is nothing offensive. No. I
wish to say nothing disobliging fur the honourable mew.
here of the government ; but if I do not mistrust
iodi-
viduals I do mistrust the mature of things. What hap•
posed two years ago? The floating debt had then rime
to a milliard. M. Fould demised to reduce it to • more
normal amount, and I applaud him for it. At that time
M. Fould had • great repugnance to • fresh inscription on
thegreat book of the public debt. I again praise him for the
feeling. But it was indispensable to find resources. The
Finance Minister appealed touts fucdholders, aged he asked
from theta the money which he would not have asked from a
loan—be asked for the conversion of the Routes. I respect
the motives which led you to vote that masseurs ; but allow
rue to say what I think of the remain Conversion of Bent',
when the time is ripe for it, is an excellent measure, but you
ought to take very good care that the fruit is really ripe;
sometimes it is sour. A conversion, effected under circum.
stances which do not. naturally call for such to operation,
necessarily produces regrettable consequences, for the
fuodholders in the first place, and for the State
afterwards. In such a situation promises are made and
hopes excited which are not always realised. Now, what
were the results obtained by this conversion, which, in my
opinion, was premature? The Finance Minister hoped that
it would produce 300 millions for the Treasury, and in Point
of fact it only realised 157 millions. And to obtain this re-
sult you have left the interest of the debt exactly as it was
before the operation, and you have augmented the capi-
tal by a sum of 700 or SOO millions. While
making this great sacrifice of capital you have,
I repeat, gained nothing OD the soon of interest
And as to the fuodholders, who were promised that ai • re-
sult of the unification of the debt they would moo see the
Threes at 71, they find the average price fora long time
past G 7. Bat in this business there is a still more serious
deception. The 157 millions paid by the fuodholders to the
Treasury were all employed in the reduction of the floating
debt, and yet • few months afterwards this debt was found
swollen to the amount of a milliard. The example of the past
ought therefore to induce us now to take precautions. What
should those precautions be ? We have iavented nothing. We
have inquired of theism what should be dom. Every year chore
is a financial Ism which limits the issue of Treasury bills.
Article 18 of the Budget Law of 1861 fixes this limit at 250
millions, and an Imperial decree is due form, as I admit,
has added 50 million'. That is the limit fixed by law as it
at present stands. We think that now you have the loss
thislimit may be reduced to 100inillions. Well, what says the
amendment which I and several of my colleagues have had
the honour to present? It demands a legislative redactioa
to 100 millions. Of course, in a matter of this
kind we have no bigotted attachment to a precise
figure, and if I thought that a larger sum would
obtain the adhesion of the majority I would very
willingly adopt it. I told the government commissaires
when I was before the committee, that if our measure
seemed to them inconvenient they might propose another,
and we would cousider it, but that we could not possibly
grant a loan destined to cover 300 millions of Treasury
bonds now in circulation, and leave them at the same time
the power to issue bills for • like amount in the courte of
the ansuiug year. I must confess that on this bead nothing
satisfactory was said to me.
After a conversation upon the exact amount of
the limit which ought to be put to the issue of
Treasury bills, M. Thies concluded
I shall be told that lam mistrustful. No. lam not. But
you must admit that this loan of 300,000,000 is a melancholy
sew year's gift for the country. There ought to be a con.
Wallop with it, and this is what our ameschnest propose,.
. . . . As I understand the mandate I received from my
electors, they desired me to support three things-0"W
liberty, good finance, and peace.
The MINIDTER of STATE —We ale all agreed OD that poict.
M. THEIRS—As to the question of public liberties we
shall speak of that a fortnight heuce. The economic.'
question consist io the good direction of finance. As to
peace, I declare myself to decided partisan of it. (Al'
please on several benches.) Not of a peace which would
injure our honour, for if that were in question, we, who ere
called the opposition, would not refuse the government all
the resources of the country. But midst present circum•
etaucee, when I look at Europe, I see the possibility of
making tfltremendousmistakes, fatal mistakes perhaps ; but
I see no great French interest involved, unless perhaps in
regard to the !Amish question. Francs is mistress of
peace or war at her pleasure. If any great
events were to occur our amendment would be no irspeali.
meat, for milliards would thou be wanted ; for, gentlemen.
the next war will not be an isolated one, but such a general
war that the present generation may, perhaps, oot see the
end of it or the coosequences of it. (Cheer.) Bat I
should not be sorry if our vote were to stand in the way
of little wars, such as those of Chios, Cochin Chins, Japan,
Mexioa;and perhaps Msdspssxr. This is all I have to say
I will leave our anseodment in the bench of the maymety
deal with it es they will, but we who have Ovid it ha"
our responsibility and our °onscreen.