The Express.
London, England, 1855-05-05 00:00:00

42,381. With regard to the permission to re-attest, to which j yet it was in its terms and fa its clanue alie-10,7(--.'nreo:._,
reference bad bun made by the noble lord opposite (the I bill which the House of Commons passed tee'—lli
Marquis of Granby), the cue stood thus. Ole month's (Hear, hear.) They might recollect, also, thatit"lni
leave of absence was now given to militiamen, within which the government of Lord Derby that a restrospenorwe",--,
period they must nuke up their minds as to re-attesting or more clumsily than that in the present bid, was coat
s'orr
not. This gave them an opportunity of visiting their friends the house. (Hear, hear.) The principle of (;..-n, l'
and of giving ample consideration to the matter, while it compensation was even affirmed by the fleet a-irrer,
prevented men from coming in after a long lapse or time and (Hear, hear.) The present government declined to
claiming the bounty. (Hear, hear.) Another hon. gentle- the question, because, after what had pealed cm- tate
man (Mr. Otway) has asked a question with regard to the few sessions, they despaired of carrying a bill on tf,f t.trki,
foreign enrolment. That hon. member appeared to think It was then that his hon. and learned Weed and 1,-1
that the government were proceeding to do too much ; would introduce a bill of his own. His hem e ~,_'-illi
while on the other hand, an hon. member opposite (Mr. friend accordingly introduced a bill which, torjoittr•ot
Bairns) censured them for doing too little. The fact was in principle and in details with the bill which had 44
that great difficulty had arisen in working the Fond, the House of Commons, and had been affirmed by ill-.
Eellstment Act by reason of the debates which had taken of Lords, it would have been a strange pos. ',. -":4
phou In that house and elsewhere before that act passed. government to take if they were to refuse theiritiain-re',",„4l
Many persons who had promised assistance to the govern- introduction of such a bill. (Hear, hear.) we th-Xilit
meat, and who had even offered to raise men, had held bock the history of the tenant compensation bills? Tina' jt
when they found they were treated and spoken of as was introduced about 20 years ego, by Mr. seenes-s-rit, a.
• majority i;;‘t ::
mercenaries. Nor could it be overlooked the denial of ford. Ten years trier thst a bill was iatreelenee-ls'4
half-pay to officers had operated as a great discouragemect. the largest proprietors in Ireland, ant by a din by
At the same time, he was now happy to say that member of the government in 181.5. In his speim-^s-olt
the government had received renewed offers of assistance, occasion the noble lord distinctly adopted the -e-15.4,
and that agents had been appointed, native. of foreign retrospective compensation, and said that the terierlig,_-"
countries, for the purpose of enrolling men. Of course, in not to be turned out of his farm without compenuu-s.- -e.-o
taking these steps, the laws of coctinentsl countries would they it was his capital or labour that he applied t:';',,,*4
not be broken through. He believed he had now replied provemeot. (Hear, hear.) That was the hest to in'
to all the questions which had been put by hon. member s. when the principle of retrospective compeasacine bad i..
Mr. WALPOLE asked if the right hon. gentleman could advocated in parliament. (Hear.) In 1852 the rim; 7
state the number of militia men actually enrolled ? gentleman, the then Attornepeeneral for Ireland--
;rt.
Sir G. GREY could not at that moment give the required Napier) introduced three bills oa the a ein.O'
information. landlord and tenant, and in one of cellg,""
(Mr. Serjeent Shee) ver• -
Sir J. PAKINGTON had heard a report that 2.5,000 men the principle of retrospective ernipmesti- Lu
were expected to arrive from Germany quite unexpectedly. laid down and carried in that bowie by
(Roars of laughter.) He wished to know whether this one. (Hear.) The right hon. gentleman ',inlaid old.:
was so I that the retrospective compensation should be unietintm-'
Sir 0. GREY had not heard of any such expected arrival. to time. (Hear.) The year after, the reitietim er. -t,i!
Mr. ADDERLEY wished to call the attention of the by the House of Lords, and two of the bills iotrocluen-`i
house to a prepceition for availing ourselves of the services the right hen. gentleman passed the other Louseof re:,,l
of convicts in the Crimea. There were at the present ment, but the Tenants' Comprisation Bill was dee...„7
moment 10.000 convects in the government prisons, and this Seeing that the principle of retrospective corepenue-sr,
amount was being recruited at the rate of 400 a year. A been affirmed by both houses of parliament, the peM7„
great somber of these convicts-as many he believed as Ireland might justly expect to see it earned out be M :
2,000 annually-were being turned adrift upon society under parliament at no distant period. (Hear.) The bill net;
letters of license. The proposition which he now mule had hon. and learned gentleman
been brought under the attention of the Duke of Newcastle divided into prospective clauses and rate retr -
when he held office, but nothing had been done upon it. There clauses. About the first there was no g dime, :Me
was little doubt but that great evils arose from the present on either side of the house. He admitted, hawse/7.2
system of tickets of leave, and had not the excitement of the retrospective operation of the bill was surronadM e-'....
the war turned public attention from it, the house would difficulties. (Hear, hear) His hoe. and learned frau-
have bad the matter forced upon its consideration. But, in (true Solicitor-General) had shown, however, that .'
truth, the war was the very reason for considering the sub- principle of retrospective compensation was M cotes ~,
sect, for it afforded a means of dealing with the matter with natural justice and with the judgments of their:er;
which mould sot occur in a time of peace. At the very time of equity. The hon. and 1 d member for Weleotoe'
whey these convicts, able bodied men, were turned adrift, however, said that the learned judges whom his hoc. e.
without the means of doing anything for their living, the learned friend quoted, namely, Sir W. Grant and Lorna,'
house knew that our army in the Crimea was suffering from would have started from their graves had they hug.,
want of men for the performance of duties which were now doctrine propounded that a tenant could claim momu
undertaken by soldiers, although not properly coming tion on being evicted from his lease. But Its hoe,s
within the scope of military matters. He would therefore learned friend referred to evictions, not of tout, -
ear
propose that such of our convicts as were physically fit for lease, but of tenants at will, which was the teoure of sic
the duty should be sent out to the Crimea. to act strictly as tenths of the farms in Ireland. (near.) The relationbetwa
a labour corps only. They ought not to be used in any mi- landlord and tenant in Ireland was quite muting,
litany duty, and their pay should be upon the task work aye- and therefore it might be necessary to have an encepeet,
tem. He believed that by this plan at least 1,500 men could legislation. (Hear, hear.) The fact that the pro - ,
at once be sent out to the East. He hid consulted various landlords to the acreage of Ireland was smeller thee en
persons upon this subject,who from their knowledge of these country of Europe was at the bottom of all the evils min
men and the duties of a camp were competent to give an subject. (Hear, hear.) But what produced that atm u
opinion upon the matter, and on all sides he had found the things ? It was because seven-eighths of the people er
proposition received with a certain degree of favour. He debarred by their religion from a right to the ?Moan ,
saw from a report of the proceedings in another place that it their native soil. (Hear, hear.) Ireland eru a purely Le
was intended to send out a body of 2,000 navvies to the cultural country. True. But it was become your leer
East. He thought that these men would not be so likely to legislation deliberately and intentionally destroyed::
be serviceable as convicts, for they would not be amenable rising manufactures of Ireland. (Hear, bear.) Tosst
to military discipline-certainly not to the extent to which the people depend solely on the land, and you rude to
convict labourers would be. He did not seek to raise a dis- land a monopoly in the hands of a few. (lieu.) It
=lesion upon the question at that time, but he should cer many having no means of earning a subeisteem um
tainly take an opportunity of bringing the matter under the from the land, and the land being in the halide of ahe
consideration of the house. the many were necessarily at the mercy of the few whop
Sir G. GREY begged to observe, with reference to the the means of that subsistence in their hands. Too go
proposal to employ convict' in the siege works, that there the landlords of Ireland en undoubted advantage out t
were two classes of convicts, thou who having been tenant, and the landlords did what every man, as loaf:
sentenced to three or four years' penal servitude had spent human nature was constituted as it WAS, would do, lc t
their whole period in prison or on the public works, and race of competition for land, the Irish lendlord, with,
those who had letters of lic nee corresponding to the ticket- design and without policy on his part, became I
ofleave of the colonies. He thought it would be a very consciously absolved from the obligations to e hich lambs
haeardous proposition for the house to entertain, that a in other countries were subject. We land became a wilde
convict having served 18 months in prison should, on the nese, his estate became exhausted, and you had a Mimi
strength of a good convict certificate while there,be permitted people compeing for the high privilege of earning Skit
to enlist into the army, and form part of its regular corps, subaistence from the land of their birth. (Chun) I
but with the men who having spent three or four years had ttered, and had never entertained any *en
on the public works, bed obtained a letter of menu disrespectful or disparaging to the landlords of li
license, the cue was different. That class of laud. They were themselves, in teeny cases, the 'Moe
men were expected to obtain an honest living the circumstances in which ihey were placed, and the
in this country, and if it could have been done secretly it of impoverished landlords was to be added to the r
might have been desirable to employ them in the works of an impoverished tenantry. (Hear.) The result wen:
connected with our large military operations in the East. total disorganisation of society in Ireland. He was spa
But the proposal to enlist them into separate c ups, to be ing of a period a good many years back, yet a on
officered by gentlemen, bad been considered by Lord Pan- within the recollection of many who sat in the ha
mure, who had come to the conclusion that it could not be There was no motive for elertion, no reward for enterpn
entertained. With respect to that very useful class of men property became insecure, and even life itself was non
called " navvies," the best answer to the bon. member's Such was the descriptir's of the state of Incised glen
objection was the success which had already attended their toe Earl of Derby, himself a largo proprietor lo I
employment in the Crimes. (Hear, hear.) In the con- country, and a good landlord. The peasant armed bl
struction of the Balaklava Railway they had given the self against the proprietor, and the proprietor t
most efficient aid to the military operations, and he was in- recourse to insurrection acts, arms aces, nip
formed that any number of these men might he obtained for mon of the Habeas Corpus Act, and to mu,
work not purely of a military character. law-on one side the agitation of the people, i
Mr. MONSELL explained that when the artillery horses military violence OR the ether. (Hear) That state of ail
were about being shipped in the Caadia at Woolwich, the happily passed away. The people improved in eondro
captain remonstrated against the number about to be habits, and character, and the proprietors became ern
put on deck, and the artillery officers present immediately a sense of duty. (Hear.) They bestirred themselves to!
transmitted the objection to the transport board. With re- performance of their duties in a manner that did theta gr
spent to the question about tents, his reply was that 2,000 honour, and a ground of hope was thus opened leo too
single tents had been sent out since the beginning of the people. There never was en instance on record era dor
year, the commander-in-chief having objected to double so sadden and so happy in its effects ; and it wu t
tents. which cast upon them the duty and responsibility
Motion withdrawn. fostering that change. (Hear) lie should be sorry indee
TENANTS' COMPENSATION BILL. any party feelings prevented them from promoting it. (flu
On the order for the adjourned debate on the second read- The question was, what coarse the house ought to ado
In of this hill, He had shown that as regarded the principle of the I
g
the hon. member fur
,Kilkenny was, from the mama
Dlr. GEORGE proceeded to oppose the farther progress
of former parliaments justified in expecting that the be'
of the bill. He said it consisted of three Wig, and to the ' . .
would assent to the principle of the bill. (bear, ha
last portion, which included the conselidation clauses, he had
from expectations that had been raised in /ream, i
no opposition to offer. To the retrospective clauses he
question ought to be brought to a settlement. Be Wm
would never give his assent, as involving a violation of the
that the government were most anxious to lend 'mud
rights of property. There was one clause of the bill which
their p wer The bill ope t venal, but not u rir
would be Completely destructive of these rights, as upon
their construction the interest of a landlord in a property biectioone . d nnlewseasthesen "ree removed he wriosidn i
justified voting- for- it. Theyhad . w
been told Matt
worth 400. an acre would be Is., and that of the tenant 39e. feel
was too important a question to be left to a private mob
(" Hear, hear," and a laugh.) He feared he must consider
the government as assenting to these objectionable clauses Mei
That might be true in ascertain respect, inasmuch u .
oft
vernment, from their command over the business
until he heard to the contrary, seeing that it was
with their consent that the bill had been intro- house, would be better able to forward it; but other,
dared. In particular, he might mention the At- the question could not be in better hands than thou dr
Sarney and Solicitor-General for Ireland, who had hon. member. At the same time, if the government gum
in earnest in support of the bill, they could not object
repeatedly declared that they could not belong to any go- -
"rumen% which refused to give them
earned member for Kilkenny. '
He regretted, and denied:the truth or, the statement made font that the measure should be is such a shape It
permission to support take it up. They could not do so unless on two condmium
the views of the hon. and l
bit id
by the Secretary for Ireland the other night, that the could honestly approve of and support ; secondly, t
taking it up the had a fair prospect of carp i
hear.) sag t e
nominal relation of landlord and tenant in Ireland was one successful issue. (Hear, y He would state his groat
of hostility, and that the tenants were weighed down by of objection. The first was, the bill pointed . ,
A, notwithstanding what c
injustice and oppression.
The SOLICITOR-GENER a certain class of improvements, for which it proposed
give compensation, lie thought all improvements for eh
had been stated by the hon. gentleman who tut spoke, was
prepared, as a lawyer, to Goateed that the principle of this
bill, both in its prospective and retrospective clauses, was which might
,be,easily estimated; in the former thane
.
compensation was granted ought to be tangible mid mate
consistent with equity, and natural and national justice • and buildings, wards, and boundary fences, the I
the classes,
u in the fora
added drainage. (Serjesnt Shee, " That w . 0
this opinion he would show was supported by the smtliority bill.")
of Sir W. Grant-no meanedge of the principles of natural That might be, but he objected to allowiTteet
Mon for al i
pollution 'for reclaiming waste lands. His en lel
- - Eldon-no „mini, sionsuri,,,,,i -s. that the 14th clot -' allowed
- Redesdale. -

justice and of equity; Lord
of the rights of property ; Lord _ and of all
writers and all expositors of the rules of equity and natural
justice. When land was let to a tenant, there was an ex-
pectation on the one aide, and a belief on the other, that
the tenant would supply to the land what was necessary for
its beneficial occupation, and supplying it to the land,
that he should be permitted to use it for such beneficial
occupation. (Hear, hear.) If, then, a landlord allowed a
tenant to make expenditure on land without warning, and,
left him to entertain the natural belief that he might make
improvements, the landlord ought not to bt allowed to dis-
possess hint and prevent his enjoying the fruits of his labour
and money. Was not that the principle of the bill, and was
not the condition of Ireland such that the landlord expected
the improvements to be made by the tenant? and if the
landlord stood by while those improvements were made,
was there any other conclusion consistent with justice than
the: the tenant should have an equivalent enjoyment
and did not the tenant believe that he so acted
under a tacit understanding with the landlord ? It was a
principle of courts of equity that he who sought equity
must do equity; and if a landlord came to those courts
seeking to dispossess a tenant, he would not be permitted to
do so till he had made the tenant satisfaction for his ex-
penditure.
Mr. MALINB desired to enter his solemn protest against
the doctrine laid down by the Solicitor -G 1. (Hear,
hear.) Unless he had spent his life in vain, that doctrine
was repugnant to every principle as held by the courts of
equity. He was astonished that his hon. and learned
friend should have cited Lord Eldon and Sir William Grant
in support of it, and he believed that if those eminent men
could have heard him, they would have started affrighted
from their graves. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.)
Mr. DE VERE protested against this being considered
a party measure, and urged upon the hon. and learned
gentleman who introduced it not to treat it as one of country
or of clam.
Mr. J. 0. PHILLIMORE thought that the principle on
which railway bills generally proceeded, that of destroying
private interests for the public good, might justify this
measure, strong as some of its provisions might be. He ob-
'llestied, however, to the retrospective clause, to which ao
limit of any kind was annexed. With that single exception,
be should give his support to the bill.
Mr. BENTINCK said the debate hitherto had been con-
gaed to legal gentlemen and to natives of the sister
country. Without pretending to the legal knowledge of
the one or the local knowledge of the other, he might be
allowed to express an opinion that the bill did not emanate
from those from whom it professed to come, and that it
would not benefit thews whom it professed to relieve ; but
that it had been got up for the purpose of political agitation.
Ti.. re was a clause in the bill which would have the of eet
of plundering bo.h landlord and tenant, transferring the
amount of which they was robbed to the pockets of the
country attornies. (" Oh, oh," and laughter.)
Mr. HOHSMAN was surprised to find how forgetful gen-
tlemen on the other side of the house could be of what had
taken place in previous sessions with regard to this subject.
(Hear, hear.) These hon. gentlemen expressed such alto-
nishment and indignation at the government permitting
even the introduction of a bill described to be so monstrous,
in its principle and details, that one would have supposed
' the question of retrospective compensation had n been
heard of till the bill of his hon. and learned friend;

was, . ctause . compeniatioo
provementa made before the passieg of the act. He add
bi I
by
on
is: :anewi respectst
yth o
clausewould
o b e
uld iv
considerable importance to the objection of the hes. es
her for Wexford as to the amount of litigation that it Se
produce—(hear)—and the advantsgee that attended'
suggest that a period should be fixed beyond &blebs
pollution would not run. (Hear, hear.) He would
thanuig°r'e rice ce° 02.
gut as an amendment that the amount of compute
should be limited to acertain sum—say so many yids' re
the number could be determined in committee. He I
considered that compensation ought never to be given to
neat evicted for breach of contract, or Donley:out of n
If these objections were obviated, the government vet I
pared not only to give their support to the bill in dull
the other house, but to forward it by every in
'
fa their power.
He would not ask his hon. fie
eteHrbeilto
ia
the member for Kilkenny to make these clot
In his bill ; he left the question in the hands of
house. The government were anxious to carry the mal
be a successful issue, and not perpetrate a sham by
eimade of a measure they knew they could not ear
hear.) There were two parties to be could!!!
landed proprietors of Ireland had the law on died
at present ; they were asked to make great concersiow,
to allow for improvements which had been models
cases without, or even against, their consent and
should not be pressed too far. On the other side, 1.1
who were anxious for the settlement of the tuition she
in establishing the general principle, take are that
questions to be brought before the tribunal establubS
the act should be such as might be easily decided.
government were prepared honestly and fairly to tat
the bill if the provision to which they could not headily
lent were struck out. If the house, thought that the
ought to be received iato their hands with such 00,1
and limitations as that they could honestly suePatt
see their way to a successful issue, they were VIP"'
give it every support, both in that and in the other hot
parliament, which it could derive from being in the I
of the government. Having said thus much, he
leave the question with the house. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. DUFFY thought the bill came short of what
required.
Mr. SADLEIR supported the bill, as a greet step
improvement of Ireland.
Sir J. FIT3GERALD and Mr. KUNNEDY spoke
favour.
Lord PALMERSTON Sir, as there sees' t!),
1 an agreement as to the second reading of this
t" no, no, mingled with " hear, hear," from the Op
tion). I did not say the agreement was noun
(Laughter.) As the great majority of this beau Appel
posed to agree to it, I do hope the house will deters
pass the mond reading this evening. (Hear.) The !
which her Majesty's government are prepared to take r
gird to this bill hes been fully and completely exPalw
my right hon. friend the Secretary for Ireland ; on thsti
therefore, I have nothing to add to the statemeat ar,a)
has made. I differ from those who urge that this is
proper time for settling this question ; I think, on th
trary, that the present moment is one peculiarly farm
for the settlement of it. (Hur, hear.) It it aql
which has agitated the public mind in Ireland for
years past—which has given rise to great animosity! of
so speak, at all events to strong differences of quer