The Express.
London, England, 1852-02-10 00:00:00

ROUSE OF COMMONS.—Mommy, F. 9.
The liramtaa leek the emir at aquote, to roar
At the time ef private balsam the Soria et Landes
amend at the bar, sad yeaterard prtithrit la hew of
tar earryin
_eat sereaSac=pere=tßrototho
Lord Mayor, MiWarm, aid of. if s-
moo Osamell ammbieL
PETITIONS Pamarrip.
PAIL 1•101111•111, Raroairrla Rom /why Dad D.
STUART team the beeest fhavallar=aa the 'Mont
of tho of As ); Mr. H.
BBilliill<T from 9,000 Mbebilamle of Brie 021 end its
ik•=nami, stating that me spate= Si ream wilt bw
ella den not Wind, the Wet ; Hr. }mug,
la▪
ma the parhites of Chelsea, Ifeadagtem, and Fulham,
praying that to say mouser Mom theme. •,mriabea mar be
toadilatli into • parliamiatiry boyouf ; Mr. LANG-
STON, from Oaford ; and Mr. 0. RICAR DO, from the City
of Wereester.
broom Tax Coax trran.—By Mr. 111111 R, from mew
amain mod bashers of Liverpool, in favour of the 'nap.
tot the osonsittee of last Tear on the lama.' and
Tax.
fIIOOTH.—By Sir R. INGLIS, from Morn, wig
other phew, against any further grant to.
NOTICES OF MOTIONS.
By Lord BLANDFORD, on an early day. Al leave to
bring in a hill for the better division of paean. be sects.
'Santini purposes and the better apportionm rat of eccusise•
tied duties therein.

math of ebtai a Mr legeneendeekof the people, which
ha when the
ungsese
mitof thielheallenesseeiftbConseee,e
"ie the
?islici
le be der pay memere we meg adds. La
gad the node it eleetlaggree nets of this
the _ Oyer oneend hen t important
an the With abide' Oh Mu and
se bee to dis-
charge. (Hear,. hearisit
lide4tel bode thy lie. (at-
tends sat in meant , emll...alts it biddy.
of fnautioas so impeded by ant
_thilbens-
tire anambly. Per, en only ameillTro; 110111011111121 n
not! ift NO Ina treed ma their
by this Mum bet the seer oweeliCilares.w7u=s
hoed penmen les led to the rigid of advising
the mews enieedem adminishaden, and this house
to onsehe that right. On re-
fisatingrirlitgedircereni==ps of honer days, with respect
be the r the did that is 1781, when there
Iwas great eztilemeat ee the= of reform, Mr. Pitt
brought forward a es the subject without
stating may plan, anrwtelsapposted by Mr. Fox, then Se•
cretary of State, who, with his meal goal erase and grasp
of Wed, said that le did ant agree with the abetting out of
say shoo bat then* that all arse of thexpilies should
be eddy ideseldiel. (Hear, hear.) la lir. Pitt
hewed • metered plan on this DAN% holding
the implethat plat et k Ira Lord of thaTeethaq. Mr.
Piet newel Bet • end hand be eeteapieideleshealit
be heeled to the geedene, la the den el ••en
.me/ boventhe rennin mann, be preim that
these webers shield he repined by ambers representing
nollidee—ia that alliPat following of idea of Lord Chat-
ham* who thought that what we men to be desired by
lid bee ltip lia oddities to the ism* representation. lie
prepeed diase that a nut ahead he granted for the further
porethee etthesegius, and that SIM of the largest towns,
then without imeebers, should obtain the rirtgghts of repre-
sestation Is ales greened • great eoterbn of house
behold!". la sellill- the large towns. That proposition
wan hourneer, reiseleas end when, is 1791, Kr. Flood Pro*
posed ea abiliee of to be ahem by the towns,
Mr. Pitt dedinedibeg, be hod Nee aged his
=siofrO leeddloed het the geollint dwell set then be
Old Owed the order Of the day. I will pass
there* video nano that wen nide while this country
was egils with dheenieer May to the Breath war
eel the Minch reehdint, beereee Tank that deem mo-
dem
sidaLtss woe he • great degne ennui by the
eident flat Out prevailed, either in fader of a
legsel mein hike, or, on the other bead,
ia hetet of theethed antherity to put doers any
attempt to chaye the omethelieu. A considerable
time alter the imetietles of he
On was war, in 1820,
Lord Durham heueght Armed • al dividing the
O country Into distils, awl rejected
by the house. 1.1119'12, I Some the honour of
bringing forward spew of reform, la wide 1 proposed
that 100 members abaeld be takes hue dr lIMIII boroughs
—taking one iseaber free eon of the mei ewe. and
giving 80 to the one lime. sod id to the help deem. Mr.
Canning made • Ma dogma speech in tie debete, mid
gave me, in endellen gent lens of Deem en emeente
esculent ecossies le eindeng • reform, of the represeeln
tin. Mr. Oaseng pined eat the iillbenty which I
should have, the plan were tidied in that
shape, in mufsg rid of the bergage tenure,
which, as every one knows, was then • part of
the representation, and was entirely in the Made
of the proprietors f small boroughs. From 1823 several
motions were made until 1831, when 1 brought forward, as
the organ *tithe government of the day, a plan of reform
which was afterwards carried in this house. I hold in my
hand the original paper which was submitted to Lord Dur-
hem lined Dmicannon, sad Sir James Graham, in Dees.-
her, 1831, and which is marked, in Lord Durham's hand-
writing, "Lord John Awn Plan." The plan I pro-
posed was that 50 borough should came to return mem-
ben, that 60 others shoal have only one member, aid
that in cities and bore a generally a 101. household fran-
chise should be es I proposed, also, certain
changes with regard to the smallest, similar to those which
were is the former plea. That plan was discussed and laid
before the cabinet, in a shape very little modified from the
original. It was then then& better to take the limit of
population, and it was peeposed that all boroughs under
2,000 should cease to retire members, sod that those be-
tween 2,000 and 4,000, sal se en to SAO, eboold return I
only one member. In die theseedea thigh albwed in the
cabinet, a long and animated dieenellen • difficulty
arose with respect to the assumed population in dif-
ferent boroughs. I think it was faun that as the
population was returned in the
very geed is ma plasalithea sad net by
ro boughs, there was id OMB
between the population so enemed be plea sad the
real population. It was neesemey, in esems, to ago
point commissioners to saceada the reel siries of
the bor ughs, and to get the umber of baser wore accu-
rately as a test. In the subsequent Reform 818, as brought
before another parliament after the dissolution, it was pre-
posed not to take, as I had done, an arbitrary number et
limits, or to take the limit of population, but to take the
number of boroughs to be abolished according to the led
Reform Bill, and to take a test of the number of hosed
and the number of assessments to the assessed taxes as •
lea et the small boroughs which the bill was to disinter
dies. Such was the basis on which that part of the Re-
hem Bill was founded, but it went also on the
basis that many of the boroughs were places with.
rot any inhabitants, and others with only a few, ad
having the heritage tenure vested in the hands of the
proprietor, and that therefore nomination, properly so culled,
existed in that borough. In proposing the great changes
then proposed—in proposing that a great number of huge
towns should then be enfranchised—that great seats of mire
nufactures, such as Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham, mad
Sheffield should have members—in proposing likewise •
very considerable addition to the county repereenutime—we
did not bide from ourselves that, according to the plan thee
established, there would be a great number of bummer
having a small population. We did not go to the extent of
saying that no borough having • small population shoed
cease to return members; we only went to the extent et
saying that nomination should no longer return members.
These are the words I find reported, not very accurately,
but containing the substance of what I said ea
introducing the first Reform Bill. I said, in intro-
ducing the first Reform Bill, 0 In the representative,
as we propose to leave it, there will still be a clam
which some will think a blot on our system, but the
existence of this class, I think, will add, to the per-
manence of parliament and to the welfare of the ppwseplc. I
mean that there will be a hundred, or more, mawben from
places of three, four, he, or six douses& loMM=lte
will not, perhaps, immediately
be emg -
tastiest, ind vela, therehre, may be lether. Waded le
speak sad Want the been on great :Zenssehlr gond
nee le *e uthethenity. If we had es gene
reeensmeded, ne., lees deey the ex eliften, and to
elm mese hat mann haw seasties and hap skies and
teen% Abel* it mend nee been a representable of the
landed, eammediel, sell ureehe.uriag intimate, som►
thing mead eIM have ben vesting to its deepletemes.
That eemeding I dad is a swabs, of panes sot ine.
meted either "With the bed, men pee or sonefacturee.
bat wise en Niniely well waft to eater thin walls, and
ale to gin addle said einem *Nine ingernat to the '
'name of the tennumily." The holt time head with
ear ghee was, net that we hod net tisoneyed these
beeenhe, but it was said that schedule B had
yeas tee far in disaboyfas a class et member,
which we hod ourselves admitted to be se vestal.
I have stated this beams it applies immediately to the
geodes d the plan we now propose. In the first place, 1
hint diet if yea wen to admit into parliament none get
mambos hr euuaties Gel eery large cities it would be ha-
peeible to eag that the punk were fairly represented. Yoe
ea eeldid Oa with vespeet to counties that any ether
wisher. saw enesed bat each as are generally knows, or
who an remarkable he their position or their property, Led
yea will dad that a very large places many potions are
denied who de ma illnietlittely represent the popular opi-
ning. while dime grebe es well qualified are excluded, and
ligeniplei• surneuseadee of the people is thus destroyed.
(RM. beam) Other nations have endeavoured to
mask this theism fault in a representation founded
ea peptise eleedes, and they have created peed-
, eine meninnese in order to give due weight
M Ad plimelpie. Ia the United States, beside* the insti-
tution eras senate, in which the members are not ins,-
' disfiely tbe topeuentatives et eenteen, but are chosen by
the nestiteline of the diffirreet stabs, them is a power
glee to the proudest left the astatine* authonty—a
peter he biped any by say sovereign of this
orwary. The of in sheathe his muleteers may dime-
god the of Negee, esti ney appoint the
when be esd these minim en en to
eesdrin. oldientb the pendent himself la However the
asp be in the sited Steam, it is 1111anet
where this hewsU
sad its delibeicAleas hareem
emeeMme
Nest me ell the esedeet of the geoseanne, owl therehee
I held it to be unwise to deem the babas* padded
by the dastitotien, which we should do if we were to
▪ that we would have no members in this house but those
who represented duties sad large cities, and admit no
ether representatives. (Hear besot, and sheer..) In the
Let of 1842, we peeneed a Ara et lerge eel wide dis-
froashisezZend we did se ea the penal that certain
see sod al net reposed the people, and
= were sulk te be admitted late the system of re-
prelestation, and Lies on the grepeed that there were large
tease and places if great neashoterier sad commercial
dinar, which meld not etherwirs be enabled to return
mambas to this house, while at the Gems time we thought
it was net desirable to increase the number of members
of this hewn Bet looking to the present state of affairs
II an es ash assmaity as should indult as to propose a
pin of selitsen sad absolute disfranchisseesse It appears
teeth as I here mere than *nee stated, end as I said even
at the •parks ef the Reform Bill, that seeking but such
sossuity albs elinecie of any repreeentstion should in-
ane us so pegeoe such a distranehieement. What we now
1 peeped oe dishecbise any borough in which it is proved
old emendiee exiele—(" hear, hear," and cheere)—and in
de sada" hill which I shall have to bring forward, it is my
intention to propose a change in the present ..ae of in-
quiry into the tarter of corruption in constituencies. (Hear,
hear.) It is no doubt true that there are now boroughs
I in which a system of bribery and corruption has become in-
I veterate, and it is difficult for anyone to be returned for
such constituencies soles, they resort to the most corrupt
practices. I own that I am of opinion that cessidereble
damage was done is this respect by a law otherwise of
great importance, I area what is called the Grenville Act.
That act enabled patties to conic to a tribunal
where they could state a case between A. and 8., end
decide the right of A. to retain a scat elsimed by Li., with
all the modes in relation to evidence and with ell the costs
of sound which are employed in a civil action. But
while this mode of proceeding provided means to enable
a member to retain his seat, or to make tho voiding of an
' abeam no longer a party matter in this house, pet this
esiedief was created, that as soon as that question was
settled It teased to be a matter of public interest, of which

—iir7Ailiffili.tor. to-morrow' to put a gaud= to the
governmest as to the expulsion of pr ~Ant clergymen
from the Austrian dominions.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCH.EQUER (in reply to
&guffaw trout Colonel Dross) side, that oa an "fly day
a bill to resit in certain unions, an g to othen to poitpata,
the ropayasents due under the Camandated Annuities Act
wonld be introduced.

EPISCOPAL ET.,VENUES.
Sir A. INOLIS asked wit, Alum the bon. member for
Marylebone intendwl to bring forward his motion on this
subject on Thursday next?
Sir B. HALL—Not on ritundsy neat, for he expected
certain Pawn beseinjt on the subject which would not be
ready
the day. could Rheas early notice as possi-
ble of time at which the motion would be brought on.

THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY ETFYINO. FEBRUARY 10, 1852.

It lie hew could take 110geisuies. Thus, la the last
optary,
Iwhen Mr. Shepherd dealt largely in the eorre&L_a ist
betangbe, it was thought worthy of 81: Edward
to employ himself in establishing the sets .pal.silhim,
and for which be received the thanks Pass boys*. But,
as matters now stand, although there is opportunity if..
forded for updating members improperly elected, ea sops
us that iodise the inquiry ceases ; and while the right to the
mat may be decided fairly, yet the question of public j.eadee
and the furity of this house is left uninquired into. (Hew,
bear, and cheers.) I propose that upon any addr en from
this house, for any reason it may choose, be it ~s the Tu.
port of an election committee, be it on the report of a select
i committee appointed by the house, or be it on merely com-
mon fame or notoriety, it shall be lawful for the crown to
appoint a commission to inquire into the eor euption of any
borough, and that such commission shall have the seine
powers ss those which have been exercised with so much
success in the late inquiry at St. Albans. (Hear, hear.) By
this means there may be many eases in which sufficient es[-
deuce will be obtained to enable the I sollill to disfranchise a
corrupt borough. Nor, do I think that the other house of
parliament will complain of such a course of proceeding,
Peen's, no case of disfranchisement can take place without
their concurrence being obtained. But when we have dis-
franchised any borough in accordance with the evidence
brought before us, it will be possible to give to large towns,
with a numerous population, the power of returning mein.
hers in the place of those who sat fur the borough which has
beta disfranchised. The house will have the power of
_ -

doing as It thinks fit. I do not, however, think
that such members should be given as was done contrary to
my opinion In the ewe of Orampound, to the counties
instead of to the towns. With regard, fur example, to Birken-
head and Burnley, if parliament shall agree to &than.
chime St. Athens, we propose to give to each of those tw i
large towns the power of returning the members of tho
borough so disfranchised. (Laughter and cheers.) When
I said that this was to be dune immediately, I meant to
refer to the two seats already vacant for Sudbury, to which
will be added the others which will be vacant on the dis-
franchisement of St. Albans. (Hear, hear.) /laving
stated all that I pose as to disfranchisement, which is
=4..in cues of proved guilt, and not to be
soil alleolute, I now come to the question of the
extension of the franchise. It appears to WO that there are
two grounds on which we may propose a wide extension of the
franchise in the counties and boroughs of the United king-
dom. At the time of the Reform Bid, I believe that in
placing the right to voting In the IW. householders we did
what was right and prudent, although we placed the point
at which the suffrage might be reached higher than was
absolutely necessary. That was • time when, with every
wish to obtain reform, we yet were desirous that it should
be safe, and we were unwilling to commit the suffrage to
hands that might he unworthy of it. The right of voting
in householders of 101. value having worked with safety to
the institutions of the country under the provisions of an
act which it was said menaced all those institutions with
destruction, I think it is time now to venture to propose '
a lower qualification. (" Hear, hear," and cheers.)
There is another ground for the extension of the fran-
chise, which I tenter influences my mind very much,
and on which! lald much stress, even when I mode • propo
sition for reform in 1822, and that is the Intelli-
gence of the people. (Loud cheers.) I W weeereary,
and if I was not afraid of wearying the Irma, hp a
reference to statistic*, and show by ends ea the in.
crease of the sale of newspapers, the ineemee d*. mie of
books, sod the incrust in the estabilehmeatefedieek does
1831, the greet advance in the intelligens* of the people.
But I do not think that any proof is arseensary, for the expo-
rienoe of every member of this house, I am nue, will iodate
hint to concur with me, and to may that the franchise which
wee given by the bill of 1831, may be made more extensive
at the present time. (Loud cheep.) We propose, there-
fore, that instead of the franchise being enjoyed only by the
occupier of • house or shop of the yearly value of 101., it shall
be extended to every occupier of 51. rated value. (Hear.)
Looking at the general returns whieh we have received, I
should may that in point of numbers the proportion of
householders rated at from U. to 102, as compared with
those rated at 101. and upwards, is as six to ton. It is clear,
then, that when we lower the franchise to W. rated value,
we add a great number to the persons entitled to exercise
the franchise. (Hear, hear.) I am of opinion that the frier
chise can be safely entrusted to them. (Loud cheers.) I sin
convinced that it is • class to which such interests can be
committed with perfect safety, and wheat intelligence ear
titles them to the exercise of the power which we propose
to give them. (Cheers.) With regard to counties, I de
not propose to make any change in that which has be..
the general constitution of this house, although the repre-
sentation of counties barn been placed on a different basis
to that of cities and boroughs. The greatest change in this
respect was made in the Reform Act, and which was In.
tradueed by • noble lord, then a member of this how—
the present Duke of Buckingham. What we edsinelly
proposed was, that the principle of "tenure" Amid be
preserved, and that 40e. freeholders and holders of copy,
hold tenures should receive the franchise, not losing sight
of the difference between the qealiti,stion for counties and
cities, the one being founded on tenure, and the other on
occupation. But the noble lord proposed and carried
by a majority of this house that the franchise
should be given to occupiers of 501. • year in
counties. I thought that in that instaace the deliberate
opinion of the house was not obtaine I, but as it is I think
that that qualification may be lowered to that which entitles
• man to sit on a jury. A person occupying a tenement of
201. rated value is qualified to servo on • jury, and I think
that a person qualified to sit on a jury is not unfit to have
an interest in the elective franchise. (Loud cheers.) How
far this proposition may extend the number of voters in coun-
ties I am not prepared to say, but at least I am sure it will
not give the franchise VI a class in whom we cannot plus
confidence. (Hear, hear.) We propose to reduce the quali-
fication in copyhulden and leaseholder from 101. to 51.1
Another right of voting which we propose shall be given
indiscriminately to electors either in counties or boroughs,
is, that when a voter resides without a borough he
may vote for the county, but if he resides within
a borough he shall have • vote (or the borough, pro.
vided in both cases that he pays any direct taxes
as assessed taxes or income tax to the amount of 40s. a
year. (Hear, hear.) I do not propose that the possession
of licenses shall give this right became, that may open
the door to abuses ; but that every person who pays
40s. is direct taxes shall have the right of voting.
(Loud cheers.) Clauses will be framed in the bill 1
propose (or this purpose. The reason for granting tkie
franchise has been fuunded on an objection which has been
made, and not without cause, that while all meows
used of freehold property, or are occupying
are entitled to the franchise, there it a this al weliwol
persons who, being possessed of neither of them species et
property—(hear, hear)—have no votes, and we hope to he
able to give votes to that clue, and to give them an interest
in the representation of the country. (Loud obseim)
Having stated what I propose as respect. the extension et
the franchise within the existing haute, I now come to the
question of the franchise without the limits of certain
boroughs. I have taken my stand upon the pris
eiple that the small boroughs ought to be re-
tained ; and that it was thought right, at the
passing of the Reform Bill, that they should be re-
tained. I do not find that, as regards Mr. Pitt or Mr. Fog,
or any of those statesmen who brought forward plans of
reform in parliament, the total destruction of the MA
boroughs entered into their views. But I find that at the
premise time there is a great outcry against these small
boroughs, but I believe that that outcry, with the exception
of certain instances, is fousded on • mistaken notion that
all the smaller boroughs are infected with bribery and cor-
ruption. I say that this is a mistake. (Hear, hear.) I
believe that while bribery and corruption do exist in many
small boroughs, something may be said as to the existence
of bribery and corruption to the larger towns—(hear,
hear)—and that these will be found not at all peculiar to
the small boroughs. (Loud cheers.) On the other hand,
I believe that there arc many of the smaller boroughs in
which bribery is not known, and in which elections are
conducted with • total absence of corruption. (Hear.
hoar.) But it is said—and certainly with truth with re-
gird to many of these small boroughs—that not only does
the influence of property prevail, not only does property
influence elections, but that often the influence of an indi-
vidaal by that minas becomes so overwhelming, as in some
boroughs to cause them to approach the chancier formerly
given to those boroughs in which direct nominations used
to exist. (" Hear, hear," and cheers.) I think it
desirable that this rrproaeh should be taken away—(hear,
hear)—for though we may for the present leave such bo-
roughs without disfranchisement, still, while they are sub-
ject to such • reproach and such odium, it seeders it
doubtful whether, at a future time, they can be retained in
the enjoyment of the franchise. I propose, therefore, in
a certain number of boroughs where It appears that such
an influence prevails, to add them to neighbouring towns in
the same county, or, if necessary, in another county. The
line which will be taken will not be founded on the test
which was adopted under the Reform Bill—namely, the
extent of population, the number of houses, or
the amount paid to the assessed tun, because we now
have more convenient tests. At the time of the
Reform Bill I stated that, in my opinion, nearly all
the small boroughs were supposed to have not
less than 300 voters; but while this was generally
the case, it appease that 14 have less than that num-
ber; upwards of 30 more have less than 400, and several
others have lees than 600 electors. When I am speaking of
electors, I mean permanent occupiers of houses of 101.
rating, and freemen holding the franchise which they re-
tained under the Reform Bill. We propose that all bo-
roughs containing 500 electors should be retained, but to
add places to all boroughs which contain less than 500
householders of 101 rating. The number of boroughs to
which this principle is applicable is 67—(cheers)—in Eng-
land and Wales. (Hear, hear.) I do not sei.h at present
to enter into details, because such details will he better
judged when the bill is before the house, and then it can
Ise seen what matters it will he advisable to carry out.
(Hear, hear.) But one observation I must make, because it
is founded in truth, although the effect. of this arrangement
may be viewed differently by gentlemen of opposite opinions.
It is thought that the smaller boroughs, except in York-
shire, are generally in the southern and western part. of
the kingdom, and are situated in agricultural rather than
in ensnufacturing and commercial districts. It follows,
therefore, that the places which it is proposed to add to the
towns are of the same character, and are not commernial or
manufacturing. The effect of this arrangement, right or
wrong, politic or impolitic, is certainly to enuree the same
general balance of interests which was established by the Re-
form Bill. If we disfranchise these agricultural districts, and
;give the right of voting to ma ufacturing towns in the
north, we change that balance, and the agricultural ins rest
will be depressed and the manufacturing interest raised in is
corresponding degree. This may be right, and what many
gentlemen may wish to see adopted, but I will fairly ay
that I am not prepared to make any each arrangement.
We propose to leave the general interest, ea we find them,
and not to disturb that balance, fearful that if we

did so we Todd peoveke a floes straggle of par-
Gm In thie house and agate a strong opposition
le this incises in the other home e( perloaogat.
I. hese new slated the general purport of the neeteart as tar
as relates to this franchise, and I will pressed to a state-
ment of ether matters eiontaiaed in the bill I propose. Ia
answer I. a spools of a right hon. friend of mine last year
I stated that I attached no value to the retaining of the
present property qualification for members of this house—
(loud
cheers)—that it was easily evaded, that it was intro-
domed into our system of representation contrary to its
general principles, and that for my_ cart I would willingly
see it abolished. (Loud cheers.) Maintaining that opinion
I have taken the opportunity of introducing a clause into
this bill repealing all the acts begln'iing with the act of
Anne relating to the property qualification of members.
(Cheers.) I only propose that members fur therepreeenta-
lion of England and Ireland should be placed in the same
position as members for Scotland, and I am sure that no
one will think that those members are inferior to
any whether es regards
property or character. (Cheers.)
There is another question which I propose to introduce
into the bill, but which cannot he done except in a com-
mittee of the whole house. It appears to me that the state
of the oaths taken at the table of this house is such that
they can no longer be consistently retained. (Great
cheering.) In the first place, we make it necessary that
members should abjure dames 11. and his descendants, and
eater into particulars with regard to the family of the
Stuart', which are not now neeessary, whatever they might
have been when the first prince of the house of Rooter
ascended the throne. Neat, au invidious distinction is
taken between the oaths of protestant and Roman catholic
members. It appears to Ms that the oaths should be suck
as they both alike can take. (Hear, hear.) 1 cannot see
' the advantage of making a peaestot member abjure the
grockedastical supremacy of the l'ope, when we think it suffi-
cient if a Roman catholic member abjures only his tem-
' pool and civil authority. (Hear, hear.) Nor do I
think there is any advantage in that provision
which obliges Roman catholic members to declare
that they will maintain the established laws relat-
' ing to property, and not seek to subvert the pro-
tenant religion, or interfere with the established church.
' (Hear, bear.) It appears to me that such an oath is en-
' tirely useless. (Ilear, hear) If a member has no wish to
' subvert the protestant religion, or to interfere with the
' established church, the oath is unnecessary; but if he
comes into the house with a determined repugnance to the
established church and a design to injure it, I say that that
oath will not prevent his carrying out such a design—
' (cheers)—while it merely gives an opportunity on certain
occasions for taints with regard to its violation, and there-
fore I think that these provision, would be better oat of it.
(Cheers.) It will not be a matter of surprise to the house
if, in the new form of oath which 1 shall propose, and
which will be generally nearly the same as that now taken
by Roman catholic, I have nut inserted the words
"on the true faith of a Christian." (Great cheering.)
It Is abundantly clear that those words were not introduced
in order to confine the right of sitting in this house to
Christians, but with another purpose ; and even now it is
notorious that the judges of the hind are ready to decide
unanimously on the bearing of those words, and as to how
they are applicable to the question of penalties. (Hear.)
I think it will be better to have one simple oath, which all
members can take. and which will bind them to allegiance
to the throne, fidelity to the succession, and which shall
not contain such objectionable provisions. There is ano-
ther provision of the bill which Ido not think will be ob-
jected to, because the question with which it deals gives no
additional security to the people in the present state of the
law ; I allude to that provision which declares that when-
ever a member accepts an office under the crown he vacates
his scat. It is no doubt a wise provision which gives to the
electors the power of declaring that a member shall either give
his vote to the government or continue independent of the
ties of party. But it is another thing when he merely
changes the office he holds, as when a solicitor-general is
appointed &Roney-general, that he should be compelled to
vacate his seat and seek a new election. This appear* to
me unnecessary, and when the electors have once declared
that they have no objection to their member holding office,
that is enough. I propose to alter this provision to that
extent. 1 believe I have now gone through the main fea-
tures of the bill which I propose to introduce. It appears
to me to be a measure consistent with the opinion I have
frequently expressed as to what we ought to endeavour to
make it, that is—a " supplement" to the Reform Bill, and
not a " substitute " for it. I have devoted great attention
to this subject. (" Hear, hear," and cheers) More than
30 years ago I first proposed a measure of reform which
was met by the eloquence and great ability of Mr.
Canning. Since then, under the successful auspices
of Lord Grey and his colleagues, I was enabled to
carry a large measure of reform ; and I am happy to say
that so far fiom fulfilling the forebodings of its opponents,
It has tended to promote the happiness and the liberty of
the people of this country—(luud cheers)—while it has
in no respect endangered• the stability of the throne or the
constitution. (Cheers.) I trust that in proceeding farther
in the same direction, taking care duly to measure our
steps, we shall contribute still further to the liberty and
the prosperity of the people, while we still maintain our
institution, unimpaired. (Chem.) I have little to say
with regard to the other two bills which will be accompa-
niments to this measure. One of these relates ts Scotland,
and care has been taken that it contains provisions to pre-
vent fictitious votes by making the titles under which
persona claim to vote complete, and that the franchise
shall be reduced to 201. in counties and 51. iu boroughs.
Then there is Ireland. The position of that country in con-
nection with the franchise has been very lately under the
consideration of parliament. With regard to Ireland we do
not proposes to make any alteration in respect to the county
franchise. But with regard to the city and borough fran-
chise, we propose to reduce the qualification from 81. to U.
It has been found that the 8/. franchise greatly restricted
the number of voters iu Irelaud. I will not mention now
the very small number who are on the lists of some of the
boroughs; but I will say that those numbers have disposed
is to re-consider the question which was placed be-
fore the house at the time the Irish Bill was before
whether, with regard to some of there boroughs, it
is not advisable to add the neighbouring towns, and thereby
secure larger and more independent constituencies. fie
far, therefore, we propose to go with regard to the Irish
boroughs. I will not state now, but if the bill be introduced
it will be stated, what will be the extent and operation of
these additions. Sir, I trust that when these enlarged
franchises have been given, we shall next have to consider
—the government of this country, in whosern:ver hands it
may be, will have to consider, most seriously and earnestly,
the great question of the educatiou of the people.
(Cheers.) In say mind, tLis question of the franchise
is not at all alien from the other question—that of pro-
viding that the instruction and education of the people shall
be in a better state than it now is. (Cheers.) lam con-
vinced that if, after a measure of this kind, in another ses-
sion of parliament, this house shill consider the means of
establishing a really national system of education, it will be
conferring one of the greatest blessings that can be con•
(erred on this country—one for which, I believe, the peo-
ple are now almost prepared—and which, after fur-
ther discussion, I do trust might be carried with
a very general assent. (Cheers.) I do not propose,
Mr, now, however, to enter further into this question. I
have stated the general provisions of the bill I propose to
introduce. And I r.joice, in this time of quiet and tran-
quillity, in approaching this subject, that we are not acting
under compulsion of any sort, that we are not coerced by
any clamour to introduce this bill, but that we do it in the
humble and earnest hope that we may, in this, contribute
something to the power and glory of our country. (The
noble lord resumed his scat amid loud cheering.)
The motion for leave to bring in the bill was then read
from the chair.

Amid groat confusion, caused by members leaving the
house in great numbers,

Mr. HUME warned the noble lord that this measure
would not meet the justice of the case, and would not appease
the demands of the people. Tho noble lord probably in-
tended this to be a soothing and quieting measure; and
it sn, ho would be disappointed; tor, sooner or later,
there would come the inevitable protest of men who felt
themselves aggrieved in being denied what they regarded
an their rights. liven as the hill stood, and as for as it
went, it was in itself imperfect unaccompanied by the
ballot. He deeply regretted the omission. Ile also deeply
regretted that the noble lord had avoided the question of
triennial parliaments. Ile, as a reformer, who was
asking for very much more than the noble lord seemed
prepared to give, :iegged to express his wish to meet every
one of the propositions of the bill on their merits, as they
would anus; and he hoped to be able to persuade the house
to increase greatly the value of the measure, and to remove
many of the anomalies and injustices which it could not be
denied did exist. This bill would leave out of the
possession of the franchise two or three millions of
artisans and working men—the very strength and muscle
of the country ; and the house might be assured that these
men would not endure their degradation for any great
length of time. The noble lord, he there fore thought, had
missed availing himself of an opportunity of performing a
great act of justice.
Sir J. WALSH thought no ground had been stated for
re-opening a question which it was understood hail been
finally settled twenty one years ago, anti reminded Lord J.
Russell of Sir R. Peel's preilietion, that the first inroad
upon the Reform Act would he mode not by its opponents,
but its anthem He contrasted the excitement of 1832 with
the frigid indifference row manifested on the subject of
reform, and chaeged Lord J. Russell with having incurred
the heaviest responsibility of his life in thus agitating
the question, and sacrificing the interest of the state to
the interest of party. lie described the former measure
of reform RS having lowered the character of the
house and its estimation in the country ; said that the prim-
ciple of finality having been given up, there was 110
Kru-
city against new inroads on the constitution. One of two
tunsequences would result from this constant meddling
with our gnat constitutions, either the constitution of the
country would be changed to a deinutraitic republic, or the
House of Commons would bo rendered unfit for the puts
poses of government. After speaking for some time against
any further changes he said that he should not oppose the
introduction of the bill, but should be prepared to give
anxious attention to its details.

Mr. H. BERKELEY gave credit to the nohle lord for
giving to the country something more that un infinitesi-
mal does of reform, hut regretted that he did nut propose to
protect the f:anchise by the ballot.

Mr. I'. HOWARD ',poke generally in approval of his
noble friend's bill.

Sir R. INOLIS complained that Lord John Russell had
intrglueed into his Reform Hill questions of • religious
elianwter, such as the admitsion 4.f Jews to parliament.
With regard to the extens.on of the suffrage, he did not
dread it so mach aa formerly, since ho had seen the utter
&Aura of universal suffrage in a neighbouring country. Ile
objected to the abolition of the property qualification, as
introducing a further democratic clement into the cun•ti-