The Express.
London, England, 1855-08-04 00:00:00

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LONDON, SATURDAY EVENI!G, AUGUST 4, 1855.

wth foreign countries, for the purpose of adopting such
regulations as a part of international law ? (Hear. bear.)
Sir C. WOOD—With regard to the last question which
the right hon. gentleman has pat, I do not feel myself nom
patent to give him an answer. I may add, that I am net
aware that any such proposition has been made--et all
events, no such proposition has been brought
general consideration of the government. As to the first
gateau's, the order issued to our cruisers acting against the
enemy in the Baltic, as elsewhere, is to take, burn had
destroy, and is assenting those orders a due diastion
must always be exercised by the officers is costumed, as to
the most effectersl node of carrying oat tie °West with
which they are charged, as.—to put ea end to the traded
the enemy. (Bar, hear.) With regard to the further
question, I have to state that the order is not 'mahout
simply to vessels under sail, or actually navigating, but
emends to those whirl might be used at a short mottos for
that purpose. It would be absurd to suppose that
because a vessel was lying in harbour, or at
anchor, wider such circumstances she was not
liable to be taken and destroyed just as much as
though she was under sail. All coasting vessels belonging to
the enemy are liable to be taken and dealt with as passe, or
destroyed, as best suits the couvenience of the cruiser by
which they are captured. Thus in the recast operations in
the Sea of Aar f, the Wiens is command of our cruisers
escrihoed large sums of money which they would have (wen
entitled to as prise money, rather than capture the ships aid
sad them home for wodemnatioo, because they believed
that by taking that wares they were beet performing the
service dof them. (Hear, hear.) But with regard
to small vessels that were not likely to be used in conveying
merchandise to foreign places, or supplies and stores to the
enemy, and the greater pert of the vessels Like& and de-
stroyed in the Baltic have been vessels actually employed in
woveying stores to the works at Croastadt—with agora to
the smaller vessels not so employed, or likely to be
employed for that pupae, they have been per.
mitted to pass. I have already laid upon the
table papers relative to the proceedings at Hango, and
to the vessels which have been captured and destroyed,
and if the house will allow me I will read two paragraphs
from those papers, which will show how the coasting vessels
are generally dealt with:—" 6th October.—Captured a
small schooner, partly laden with salt. Destroyed the
schooner, and took the salt on board. 91b.—Captured
another vessel—a small sloop; but finding that she was not
engaged in trade, and that she belonged to a very poor per-
son, let her go." Now I apprehend the Marcia neces-
sarily rested in the officers commanding our cruisers was
properly exercised in both these instances, in accordance
with the intentions of the government instructions. (Hear.)
Mr. OIBSON—Am Ito understand that the jurisdic-
tion of the Court of Admiralty is superseded, and that it is
for the admiral is future to decide whether the vessels cap-
tared are Russian property or not ? Ars such vessels not to
be carried home to be judged by the proper tribunal whether
they are lawful prises or not—or is the admiral to decide
both ea to the ship and the property in her ?
Sir C. WOOD—I em sot sure that I correctly under-
stand my right bon. friend's question. No officer is justified
in destroying a neutral vessel, but he is justified in destroy-
leg ea enemy's vessel if he thinks it necessary to do so. He
mast exercise his judgment as to whether he will destroy or
not. It is nonsense to say that he mast send her home for
adjudication in every case. (Hear, bear.)
THE VIENNA CONFERENCES.

Mr. LAING rose to oall the attention of the house to the
objects and policy of the war, es affected by the late new
lioness ; and to move for copies of any correspondence will
the Preach government relative to the last proposal el
Austria. Uroiag the propriety of accepting the Anetden
proposals, he said he thought that in candour and immune
fairness they must all admit that one of the great WWII
of Ewen, like Russia could not, without a eoneklisW
able lose of dignity, subunit* a proposal for Tenni:tie, lib
mown of her aerial force at her own doors. (Hear, barer„)
They must not look at such matten merely through di
medium of their owe prejudices ; they must try to tramping
themselves into the point of view of a reasons' le Rossini
statesman, and he thought such a person might well say,
" If soy country is to be bound down with regard to Ihn
naval force, at least the must have some eseuritl
that in case of anything occurring suddenly to the
radish empire, we who have perhaps the largest
interest in this question shall not be placed in a position
in which we shall have no effective voles." The great ob-
ject of this war was not to destroy Rorie as one of the great
powers. Such an object would be visionary and impracti-
cable, and even were it not impracticably he should still
think it wry bad palsy to attempt to erne and annihilate
Russia. It would be the worst possible poilley, •to kis
opinion, to dictate such a peace as would of (ties Susie,
Name her in • position of antagonism to the Misr powers of
Europe, and prevent her from re-entering into those bonds
of alliance acd amity in whisk she had lived
tar en many years. (Hear, leer.) Everybody meld
see that if the war were initinend for an indefinite
period, and for an indefisite object, the revises might he
placed in the greatest difficulty, and it was for the oouatry
seriously to consider whether it would incur another
national debt without some clear necessity. Again, was
there not very great danger that the aintinumes of the
war wadi exhaust the very ally wham they Ind under.
taken to neat ? (Hear, hear.) Wes there not much caeca
to apprehend that if the war continued long it would
accelerate teat which it was their object to retard ? There
wm ao one in this country who did net feel the importances
of a thorough and cordial alliance with Francis ; and would
any one say that if the war lasted for an indefinite period,
that alliance would remain as firm as it was nowt Were
them not necessarily germs of dissension in this war ? He
would take the alternative either of success or of failure.
In the event of failure might there not be mutual re-
crimination. Is the event of mann, was there no
danger lest France should be again Inoculated with
military ambition ? Was there no danger that the French
people would say, " If we an to make them enormous sun.
(ices, it must be for some object mere intelligible than the
counterpoise in the Black Bea ?" Public opinion in Prance
was a delicate subject to speak upon ; but be must say that
his own experie• co with regard to it was that the war had
never been popular there. Up to a certain point nearly all
appeared to acquiesce in it as an inevitable amenity, and
to feel that it would be unworthy of France to allow
Russia to carry matters all her own way; bat when the
question was narrowed to suck an hese as he had stated,
he thought the great msjonty must feel that if the war was
to go on it ongbt to he on different terms. If
the continuance of the war were dangerous to their

relations with France, it was still more dangerous to their
relations with Germany, which must be the keystone of
resist** to Hessian aggression. (Hoer, hear.) If vague
ideas were tribe thrown set in this eounu7—ideas which
were utterly visionsry and impracticable, and which it was
not intended re set upon—through the medium of public
meetings sad if the press, he wee very much afraid they
would arrive at • position in which their relations with the
Germain (*seemliest' would no longer be amiable. Now,
the rolls warlike of war being sash as he bad indicated, be
would ash, did the people of this country seriously belie*
that it was worth while to incur such enormous sacrifices far
the mere difference between counterpoise end limitation ?
Would anyone seriously advocate the contioosace of the
war except u a means of obtaimiog a certain specific object ?
When war became the end instead of the means it be-
came unworthy of civilized nations, and it eras recoocileatde
neither with conscience nor with common MIN to continue
hostilities merely in order to snowed is a certain *interim.
(Hear, hear.) He most say that he thought very exagger-
ated potions were entertained out of doors as to the jasper-
tense of meow Ls this reopoeS. If was one of the great
evils of war that it se excited thepemions aM influenced the
imagination am to make it impossible for men to take •
calm view of their politico and circumstances. England
and France would not be disgraced in history if they did
not succeed in obtaining the desired victory over Russia,
attacking her, as they d:d,on her own ea, and under the most
disadvantageous circumstances. As to England, her prestige
area from her naval power, and it would not suffer because,
in consequence of the great superiority of her force, her
enemy had not given her en opportunity of achieving rez
naval ezploita. What had been done in the fies ofi
was of infinitely more importance as regarded our pried,
than the takieg of half a dozen Bebsstopois.
Sir G. OBEY was quite ready to admit that her Majesty'.
governmeat bad no right to complain of the course whit*
the bon. gestletuan had taken in briefing again before the
attention of the house the important subject to which his
speech related, nor could anyone complain of the manner in
whisk he bed stated the views which be entertained. but at
theses, time it was much to be regretted, if the boa. gen-
tleman thought it neesseary to raise • discussion upon what
bad taken place with regard to the negotiations at Vienna,
that he should have adopted the form which he had done of
kissing that discussion before the house. His motion was ob-
jeelionsble on two grounds. Is the first place it wags motion
Oa which jt wee quite impossible, as indeed, from the can-
audios portion of his speech, the hon. member seemed to
feel, for the government to accede to; and in the second
place it was a motion which, while it raised a question of
public policy, would give no opportunity for a deliberate
impression of opinion on the part of the House of
Comm**. The hon. pedestals (Mr. Laing) sislod
for the oommunications which had Weil weds be.

tween the Frisch sad }lsaiah governs:eats in re-
tinues to the proposition which 111/ magi by the
goverameat of Austria. Now, the house was is oussession
of ample Mfermation with regard to the neptia flout it
Visaaa, and to the proposal which was made by Austria
after the euferenees were saspeaded, bat before they were
finally dosed. It was also is possessioa of the deeisica, se
which her Majesty's 'summit had come span that pt o•
posed, and of all that pureed at the casferames. It was fun
Mar in possession, in esseeguence of therms:tett of the right
hoe. gentleenaa the number for Becks, of the iastruetioss
addressed by her Majesty's g meet to his noble _friend
the member for the eity of Loudon (Lord J. Russell), upon
Ala prosoodlai to Vistas es PlealPeteetisa7 as the part of

the binge govarament. Notwithstanding this, the hen
mentor now meted for 'communications of so mealier e
natee that he himself must feel that her Majesty's govern-
ment would not be acting in acticrdenes with their duty
wenthey to consent to produce them. In the town of the
wee le which we were engaged, instant and unreserved
communication had taken place between the go-
vennemes of England and Francis with references
Midi to the conduct of the war and of negotiations,
salt was most essential that such communication' should
take ilea in order to • fait interchange of views and
opiates which alone weld proems that unanimity of notion
read oncraon concert which were necessary to the earryieg
as of the enterprise in which both nations were embarked
Bat lithos communications were now produced they would
not la repeated, sad let the bone picture to itself how
series a loss to the public that would be. When two indi-
viisei—not to my gmernneste—were engaged in a joint
uneraking, every one knew how eseessare constant and
free ernmeneatiess were to the nooses et that which they
bad it hand; when, instead of individuals those engaged
were two great countries like England and F , and
when the undersides was • neon eery war, the reasons for
that memitteintion became unanswerable. Under these
circumstances her Majesty's ministers felt it their duty to
refeet thew papers. They did so became they believed the
prodeetion of them would be prejudicial to the course which
therenfore Dad been takes, and to the attainment of the
wononvekieb they bed in view. Be shoal that eventing
brush id the subject he needregy no more, especially as the
his. member himself seemed to anticipate that his motion
weld not be seceded to. Bet before quitting this breach of
the subject he thought it was only his duty to suggest to the
hon. member, that in making a 'lotion of this kind be
nigh; not to lose sight of what was due to the
government of France, ea well as to oar owe.
After ill this subject occupied but an unimportant portion
of the speeds of the hon. member, who had in fan only
availed himself of the motion for papers as • means of
bringieg before the house his views with regard to tam
muse whin, is his opinion, ought to have been pursued Is
respect of the proposal made by the government of Austria.
The lon. gentleman impugned the policy of the course
'high ber Majesty's government had taken, but only in re-
lation to the Osat stage of the proceedings is refusing to'
mese to the proposal made by Austria as a basis of peace.
The hon. member, differing from some of those near whom
he was seated, admitted fully the sociality of the war in
+kicker* were engaged. He went further and admitted
that the prindple embraced in the four poi's', upon
which the governments of England and France entered into
the segotiations, was a principle upon which it was the duty
of the two governments to insist. He want yet further, and
separated himself from those who having thought the war
jest and neonsary, now Were of opinion that there Were
propositions wade before the sunemion of the 4:ochre:ion
upon which a ogees might have been based. In floe, times
was nothing opon which a difference of opinion existed
szospt the coarse which was taken with regard to the
proposal of Austria. In defending no course which the
government had taken, it was hardly necessary for him (Sir
G. Grey) to do more than refer to the papers in which the '
denims of government were stated, for with those papers
no dissatisfaction bed been expressed; but, on the contrary,
the lespatch of Lord Clarendon had been universally ap
proved. The question, no doubt, as the h,u. member
stated, turned upon the principles of limitation and counter-
poise. The hon. gentleman did not himself differ from
what was the almost universal opinion, that, as between the
priaciplee of limitation and counterpoise, the balance of ad-
vantage was mush in favour of the former. The govern-
ment of Lord Aberdeen, and the present government also,
without being pledged to the principle of limitation, were
decidedly of opinion that it must be looked upon as the
safest means of arriving at a satisfactory peace. Bach was
the opinion of the Austrian government, as the hoe. gen-
tleman would see on reference to the protocols. However,
the hove was not then called epos to declare in favour of
peace upon that condition only ; indeed, it was most doe
'Sable that the future should be left as free and unem-
Misused es possible, so that when a future nog giation was
entered upon it might be unfettered by any previously
existing condition. In considering this question he would
trouble the house with one or two extracts fro,n the instran
time addressed by Lord Clarendon to his noble friend (Lord
J. Russell), and he did so because they would explain in
precise, definite, and unmistakeable terms what were the
objects and what the policy of her Majesty's government.
In the early portion of those instruction Lord Clarendes
wrote that In c .mmon with her allies, her Majesty
cwt maimed, &dam to see peace uttered to Europe in
such a manner as to afford a reasonable asseraece that it
will long remain uninterrupted ; but this an only be ex
peeled if the conditions of that peace are such as to afford
' a sufkieet guarantee for the future security of Turkey."
la a subsequent portion was this mange It will be in
vain to stipulate that the Danubian provinces shall be
withdrawn from the excludes protectorate of Russia, or
that the navigation of the Damen shall be set free from the
abstractions which impede it, unless effectual precautions
are takes to render the Turkish Empire au integral part of
the European system, and sufficient restraint be imposed
I epos the military and naval power heretofore exercised by
Resin in the Black Bas, and the overbearing influence
which, by reason of that power, she has acquired over the
councils of the Potts." In this Austria concurred, stating,
as she did, that the maintenance of an empowering fleet
in the Black Sea was a perpetual menace to the Turkish
empire. Lord Clarendon went on to say, "The end in view
I is the formal recognition of the Turkish empire in its
, character ar an independent and self-existent state, as •
member of the great European family, and es an essential
element of the balance of power in Europe. One of the
mssus by which that end is to be accomplished is the abro-
gation of Hoiden supremacy in the Black Bea. How this
is to he effected with the least inconvenience to the Powers of
Europe, is the problem ton salted." The hon. member
founded an argument upon the next extract which he should
read, by which be excused the course which his noble friend
(Lord 1. Russell) bad taken at the conferences; for he (Mr.
Laing) said that Lord Clarendon, in intimating the two
courses which might be pursued, gave no opinion either in
favour of tilll one or the other. H• thought that no such
excuse was needed by his noble friend; but he agreed with
the hon. member in thinking that his noble friend was not
preclsded by his instructions from submitting, as he had
done, the Austrian prepare: to the English government. ,
The extract was this:—" It might be Draught about by a
common agreement teat the maritime powers should main-
' taro in the Black Bea a force *dogmata to counterbalance
the navel forces which Russia has heretrfure maintained,
and, if nonintrolled, may again hereafter maintain in that
' sea. But this would be nothing more than an truce,
liable to be interrupted at every element by chance colli-
sions, and entailing on the maritime powers a perpetual en
penditure to keep up, at • distaste, from their arsenals, an
efficient force in the Black Bea, while Russia, having
her arsenals at hand, end her limbers of refuge
always open, would be relieved in a great mea-
sure from the costs to which the other powers would be
exposed. It may well be doubted whether, after a few
years, Great Britain would matins such an eipeuditure.
This object might be effected by a twofold process : by re-
daciag the maritime force of Russia in the Black Be.
within reatinable commas, and by opening that sea, with
the consent of Turkey, to the maritime forces of other
nations. Her Majesty's goverment would meth regret that
the Ports should be so impressed with a sense of its own
comparative weaken' as to be prepared to abdicate is
power to defend the Turkish Empire against even a limited
display of hostile force. It would be better for the nations
of Harem that the Porte should be encouraged to rely on
its own resources, though left at liberty to call in the aid el
friendly powers to counteract the menaces of its powerful
neighbour; but the reduction of the Remain naval teen is
the Black Sea within such bounds es might, In enepillerden
with as equal Turkish force, suffice to provide odletemell
protection for mental commerce, would ban sire Testier
indirect advantage of preventing, at any future period.
the march of Rimini armies on Constantinople, or at all
events of rendering any each operation one of eztreMe
hazard ; for, as far as present experience extend., the MG.
port of • powerful fleet, canticle of co-operating with to.
adenine( armies, and affording the means of providing
them with requisite supplies, is essential to the mows of
any movement on the 'Turkish espied. The imposition,
therefore, of adequate restrictions at the sand power of
Russia In the Black Sea would give to Turkey the material
protection of which she stands in need ; while her rescogni.
11011 as an essential element in the balance of power in Eu-
rope would afford her • moral guarantee under the safeguard
of which she might fearlessly carry out thew plane of in-
Cereal reforms and social reorganisation which have been so
earaestly pressed upon the Porte for many years." And in
conclusion Lord Clarendon said: The bleed and Unsure
which ban been so freely expended in support of that
policy would be altogether thrown away, if the only
result of our efforts shoo d he a ho low truce, to be
broken wh a suitable opportunity should arire for the
attainment of the long-cheriabed objects of Russian unbi-
tioe—the subjegetion of the Ottoman empire in Europe,
and the *ailerons:nee of a Russian prince in the capital
of Turkey." Ho had by reading thus much put
the boom folly and fairly in possession of the view* and
objects of the goy/raiment in this matter. Them news
were pressed at the conference with the concurrease of
Frame and Tarbey and the support of Austria. When it
betimes sepses; that thee* was no prospect of a successful
result it beams • question whether the conferences should
be continued, sad It WU in th. recollection of the house
Ines notated that her Majoell'eforrfalloot were bloiloodr
and shamed with • want of since `ity in the prosecution of the
woe bemuse they did not sooner Noon off the scaferences.
IlwerWswe, a proposal was altimeseely node by Austria,
Ida& wee submitted to the animate .of England and France,
and received their most mature onside ration. Undoubtedly
'Jo the course of that consideration consiolledootion• Passed
between the two governments, engaged es they were Ise
smart. The lace. gentleman now wished to know the
remorse which influenced the French teollefenseaL