The Express.
London, England, 1852-12-04 00:00:00

11.1iiMINtTIO OF PALACE•YARD.
ILL! • • .N

An H;Te7Mtiiiiiiasitti v;ltetite;,;iitTait;;eolllideril•
dm of the safety of hon. members, it was the intention of
remotest to order the erection of a new lamp in Palace-
yard. (A laugh.)
Lord J. MANNERS thanked the hos. member for bring-
ing the subject under his notice, but the additional lamp-
post was already in course of ereetieek(Leughter.)
LONDON AND WESTMINSTI& BRIDGES.
Mr. LAING wished to know whether the 011ie Ome.
Illiissioser of Woods and Forests bed bed his attention
called to the crowded state et Leaded-beidp, and whether
government contemplated eay seedy t
Lord J. MANNERS bad me 4111W0a aver the *-
meta of London-bridge, wbielk was under the City aatho-
ricies. He did not think govieumat were the parties re-
sponsible for the state of Mot Miegoughltre.
Sir R. INOLIS add be eteellos Mandy nut call the
attention of goverment M the stated Weeteniaster-bridge,
for which they were respenteible.
CASE OF LEOPOLD DE ROSE.
Lord D. STUART asked the Secretary of State for the
Home Department what had been the resale of the In•
quirt' undertaken by the_goweenment into the cm of Leo-
pold de Roes, a Polish oer, who was imprisoned is Win-
chester gaol at the instance of Capt. Cospatelek Saints
Hamilton, R.N.

hau:X
of the lima. and eageskily te OM of
mentry pre-endeset ie kirryark, kr ila,
kilillaave akar torisa le medal Erma tidied
of a ileandel =We, end I treat dm r,
ewe dmiegthe vernarks I hem ft eke
ties mare of a limuteial elgp that pestat
swami bet twerthirde of the rim am
• eirmanutwase whisk risenvelly _ mach to treillatt
ties with whisk I have le deal. ' (Hear.) I eta sure
that I dull merive to-night even • generous indulgeetie—
Adieus) —and the only favour I shall presume to ask of
hen. gentlemen either on this or the other side of tho house
is that they will net precipitately decide on any proposition
I have is make, but will consider all I have to offer as •
whole, as a measure of justice to myself, and that they will
not, anal they have heard the views of the government
fairly placed before them—that they will not be carried
away by the feelings of the moment, on which-
ever aide they may sit, to decide too hastily
en the measures which it will be my duty to plasm before
them. (Hear, hear.) I wish, after the result of the late
general election, and after the understanding come to sub-
*spent to that election, that the principle of unrestricted
competition was entirely and permanently adopted as the
principle of our commercial code.—l wish to consider our
financial system in relation to our commercial ',stem, to see
' whether they could not be brought more in harmony to-
pdikeaz,
, sad whether, bringing them more in harmony
, we might not remove many well-founded canoes
setent from the people of this country, and lay the
Illesiebt of a system which in future would not only be
bestial, but would ealist in its favour the sympathies of
eft dews. (lieu, hear.) But before I take that general
Wag OD which I have just adverted, I think it
weeli be convelieat that I should consider the claims of
this, whu believe that by what we now familiarly describe
es vilest legislates, they have received peculiar injury.
Tabs, for ezmegle, the shipping interest, the super
peedeciag iatereek and the agricultural interest, so far
ite—irrespeethe et ell other pleas that may be urged for
thesa-le tar sr la the opinion of the house they may be
Babied le peedler burthens of taxation. Now with regard
te the thipgleg interest. I may say this on the part of the
goverament,t Mt, having investigated th 3 subject with
great pains, and listened with great patience to the state-
ments of the representatives of that interest, they are of
opisios that the shipping interest, principally in cane-
quence of recent legislation, and the repeal of the argil/a-
tion laws, are at this moment subjected to burthens to which
they ought not to be liable, and to restrictions which—to
use the words of the noble lord the member for the City of
London—errioutly impede their prosperity. They complain
of the primal systemihy which the pilotage of the country
is regulated. They have great complaints as to what may be
termed thelAdmiralty grievances. (Hear.) They complain of
the circumstances under which an individual belonging to
the mercantile marine is enlisted in the Royal Navy. I
(Loud cries of "Hear, hear.") They complain of the
way in which salvage is exacted. (Hear, hear.) They
complain of the regulations under which anchorage takes
place and is described. (Hear, hear.) They have very
great and serious complaints to make as to the restrictions
under which they labour with respect to the manning of
aneesiilla of lading, sad charter parties. At present, I willl
other complaints as to the stamps levied on marine maw-
their seemly. (Cries of "Hear, hear.") And they have'
only make a brief summary of the measures that the govern-
meat are prepared to recommend with reference to the
claims of the shipping interest—measures which they will
recommend with the earnest wish that all real grievances'.
may be removed, and that we shall cease to hear of the claims
of a particular interest, as being subject to burdens, restric-
tions and vexations, from which the rest of the community
are free; and that from henceforth, if those measures which
I have indicated should be carried by the house in the
spirit in which they will be introduced by us, we shall knew
the shipping. only.as • portion of that great and floe
eimmunity in which I for one earnestly desire that 21Z
every interest of the country should be merged. (Cheina.)
We propose to deal with the question of lights imam
three heads—to reduce the tax paid by the shi la.
targets, under the claim of supporting the
of the country, viz., the interest on the debt w • Mahan
incurred—the contributions to large charities and peering
tolls payable to harbours which the ships nevei enter. We
propose to terminate these three greet sources of unjust
taxation, and we believe we shall be able to effect this oh-
jest for the annual sum of 100,0001. The shipping interest
will then have to pay for the lighthouses only from which '
they receive benefit—those which guide their ships and steel
their lives—and they will, and I am sure they will, never
complain of a tax levied for such objects and on such prin-
ciples, any more than any other class of the community will
complain of any tax to which they are subject, but for
which they obtain a corresponding besefit. (Cheers) Is
the second place, we propose to submit to the cono:deration '
of a committee of the House of Commons the whole ques-
tion of pilotage, and we believe that by that means we
shall arrive at a result that I am sure will be im-
partial, and which I have no doubt will be sa-
tisfactory. Then we propose that the three Admiralty
grievances, anchorage, salvage, and enlistment shall be
entirely terminated, or at bast subject to regulations which
will deprive them of the injustice and unfairness which
have been charged against them. We propose that the
subject of manning shall depend on the adjudication of
parliament on a still more important subject—and of that
Imamate the shipping interest will not complain—(hear,
hear)—and as to the last point—the taxation levied on the
shipping interest under the head of stamps—that
is • subject which affects the general revenue of the
the country, and will be considered when we arrive at that
subject of ee . I have new, sir, stated the general
views of the government as to the claims of the chi •
interest of the country, as made by dime. end eahaesd
upon successive governments. I propose thus we should
then proceed to the claims of the sugar prodeeing egisehm
I have had placed before me what I believe am b/11111,
be called a memorial, but ma official paper from the West
India body, and I can wore them it is impossible there
can be any individual in this house who would view their
just complaints with more reedy sympathy thee myself. First,
they demand that you should arrest the emu of desesst
in the duty ea foreign sugar; secondly, that yen skull
redoes the duty on British plantation sugar; thirdly,
that you shield guarantee additional loans te be raised by
them he the musses of immigration, and the Imprevemient
of the estates; fourthly, that yes shield mutt the rater
meat of sere in bead for Moe esesnmptiem es well as be
exportation; Wily, that you should permit the isee of me-
lees's la brewing ; sad daddy sad lastly, etheg=dldee
ea 'palates of the duty net with that on al
spirits. New, in the last ghee, I have to °sadder whether
I eta recommend to the brass to stop the relishes is the
duty on hedge eager, or is reduce the duty es Width
plantation emeer,nad la &alai with this clattal must reed-
lett that I have t• similar it is a parliament that has
been dueled to minblish the priacipla of sere-
striated eenagetities. We are by the repremetatiose, me-
bodied in the stestaisat I reed, aid to Dame
that 111" eampsiailea between ear esiseM user and Ands
=le • esopetlaset dot epees be eadured—wo as
later heat the emedles that are reeemmended, that
ruin will be drops/mem mimeses" ef NA • change le
the duties as le digaseded set betas armle. Bat I will ask
the been to stand be. taseept te the lest reams awn
up 5* the 6th of Nevember, of the qua*, if sem se.
deed red earellaid. amassed be hope - la Ilia
UmksilLizeks,_ia ask of the tea swathe Nterszte
her. MI sad NIL New, in 1651, the West I.dla mimeo
net le this sentry—that is, there was entered here
for brae esearapelca is the Nth November, 2,251,000 meta.
mad la the OM maths eadisi irk Were, 2, the West
tali eslealse bete ealeeed, Wised el 1 1X166,000 sates
3.022.26645,15. (Lead ohms.) Ma the Kturitlai this
tiesadly uttered to 6th Nov., 1851, was 804,000 ewes. awl
to thee.se date in the present year 976,000 ewto eigir4l
And theta the Esse Islas there were sawed is
MN, INN. lOU* arta. end to the id New, NA&
1.304119 awes. Thee erre mese aimed be. ear
united esleeise. as I yeah= is eaH them,
to the ids Illesetaber, 1851, mele.„_and be the
same date he the pinata* per, 11112, ~000 mos.
Now 'Nerd's* It motel be shown that awe b eV Pew
',herdic lodated; the ley es British plurals& seam I
have wale en if it he seeemery N arrest the deepest of
the dudes il• fordo raw. The quantity of unrefined
remits sew entered kr Woe entateptlea in November,
1851, ealseemted te_ 2,I2ILIMMiIIa ; bat la November,
OM, instead of 1,215a11/ ewes., the
s:ar unrefined
falem:: mewed err Wee was may
5 "ad the demises of hedge mu was in a
degree far la November Uld, the quantity
rmperted yes 268,00 d eerie., while in November, 1852, in-
stead of 268,000 owls., the quantity Imported was
248,00 ewe. It will be sea been the general results of
the Imes I have pot beim the hews (I boo+ it is weari-
some M put Awes beam the hews, bat this is a question
which redly respires it)—(bear, hear)—it will be seen, I
my, by the remit that in 1851 Uwe will be an importation
of 4.126,000 !mtg. of British colonial sugar, ss against
1,487,000 ewhi. of foreign sugar ; while in 852 there has
been imported .5,378,000 ewts. of British colonial sugar
against nearly 814,000 ewta of foreign sugar. The increase
in the imports of British colonial sugar has therefore been
about 1,230,000 cysts., while there has been a decrease in
the importation of foreign sugar of about 00,000 cuts.
I ask then (I may be called • traitor, or I way be called a
renegade)—(loud cheers)—but I ask eau say redeem,
on whatever side of the bow he may sit, sen say sue re-
commend an alteration in that diareattal duty on the
praduce of an interest which is now commanding the metro-
politan market, cats any one ask for an alteration of the dif-
ferential duty under these circumstances. Then I am asked to
grant additional lodine to our West India eolonies, te be
raised by themselves under • guarantee by the government,
to be applied to the promotion of immigration, and certainly
nothing could be m re legitimate than the immigration of 1
labourers into our colonies, and it ieone which undoubtedly
ought to be encouraged. Wheal am asked for a loan to moist
immigration—(l mast ask the house to permit me to enter
into details, although they may be wearisome to the
house, but it mast be remembered that they relate to clues.
Cons which must be settled to-night)—l say, then, when
the West India body asks for such loans, it is necessary to
remind the house of the state of our relations with that
body. By the act of the 11th and 12th Vic. we have gua-
ranteed a loan, which is to bear interest at not more than 4
or 6 per cent., of a sum not exceeding 500,0001., and the re.
=of which is to be charged on the um of the
Of this loan the following sums have bean allotted:
Ile British Galena, 240,0001.; to Trinidad, 100,0001;
god to St. Lu is, 3,0001., making a total of 353,000'.,
teed this only has been allotted out of the
800,000 i. There is a memorial now before the Colonial-
Mee foe a loan of 100,0001. for Jamaica, but it has not been
deckled whether it will be allotted, and therefore the sum
PINIISIning unappropriated, supposing that the great Saab
be Jamaica, is not much more than 40.0001., while of the
Ann allotted to British Guises, 120.0001. only has bees
taken up, and of that apportioned to Trinidad only 40,0001.
Bow then can as claim be urged on the overnment for
the jespeal of a fresh las to oar sugar Woman,

lir. WALPOLE said he had oak fa born bus Yo
subject, sad believed that Capella DeoOho siehl set have
dem stherres this smolt Mr. De Rees. bilalusliew,
lowever, pessiesi selemesest he list esms ttal Ma to
*Lk est lei ma inneseties lees meweid Is thou, it
would have reesited is Mr. De Vete% asquittal.
CUDDY RESHILVIS, CANADA.
Sir W. MOLISWORTM lessed to a& the Senekey of
State for the Osissies whelbst 11 Is the idesties of for
Majesty's andatees wldes* s hill to eosins Ike Coss-
ets legleatere to Dome side preena of the dein
setes% whisk Is the emildes tisit Ike stipends end
allow-
Mete lessekeles solesed tad eves to the ds ef the
ensue of Essimi sad Scotland, or to any One
bones es demonetises of Christians is Ceassis:27•
emend during Ms seam' lies and iscor of Os
parties sow reeseksy Ike ems P He wicked she Is hem
wheeler goverment bed received as adds.= tree Os hr.
&later° of Uwe Cambria re Ike selinst
Sir J. PAICTON amid he led received the tiles
hy the bus. basset, eel erla mime to Mc
sessed sesi mos impolset pot of Ms qualm led he
Um Mr Majetlysymermaset led item Ins whim
the fullest emelemetne, mid had deddsil-mmilieneg
that the we esestislly es Upper Cement lemehms.
the seembly of Meek prinisee was 'lose semis MOW
es Ins subject. est Ins siellerity who sorhed lie -reselseees
Ms whisk Os Wise bed essaestad wo priselpally
=I of Rama ed the lower pewees, Mom
estshishosses woos ameilioesaly 'Mowed. sad
thus the Ass ef ISM had hats assepted se easel settiessest
--epee sot izendseieg say MR to the mime of any*
est the object alluded us by the Me. ban.
81r W. 1101111WODYM Ws .tens Meg lostelket
after the man les meld awe for Isms to hese is a WI
to en sble the selsetal legislature to nom ef the ekegy
referees is accordance with the promise gives by the late
goveraraeat.
METROPOLITAN BUILDING ACT.

In answer to Mr. Osborne, Lord J. MANNERS detail
that goverment woall immediately after the raceme briag
in a bill amending the Metropolitan Building Act.
COALING THE WAR STEAMERS.
Mr. FITZROY wished to know from the Secretary to
the Admiralty whether a statement which bad appeared in
the paper, to the effect that the ship Pique, 74, which,
haring been in commission, had been sent to the
Motherbank to serve as a coal depot for the war steamer,
had upon being opened been found to be utterly rotten and
unseaworthy, was correct? Also whether resources for
coaling were being provided at Plymouth and Portsmouth?'
Mr. STAFFORD said that the fact stated was true, aad
that the general question was under consideration.
NOTICES OF MOTION.
Br/Amore E XDOWN INT. —On the Maynoelkftelintli
Mr. Spooner, Mr. SCHOLEFIELD to move asegoomlmeifi
extending the denial of grant to all religiose eafiemmonfiL
Pcnt.te HuLTW Acr.—Sir 0. PECHRlsiakeeelfilnkb,
after the ream to eall atteation to the ethesths oft e
provisioaal orders ander the Public Health Aet.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
On the motion of Mr. F. MACKIN/111, it was ordered that
the house en its rising adjourn until Mond*/ neat.
SUPPLY.—THE BUDGET.
The home haviag resolved itself into a tostualttee of
suppl
The
CHANCELLOR 1111 the EXCHEQUER eahl-71r.
Wilson Pitta. Sir, al lboogh the hems bee bus deem!
to ascribe to the remarks I bawl to make Omsk* fah dot
ranter of a financial statement, sad although I as Witt
inclined to quarrel isfah the threes of the bees, dill I
hope the base win have the Walser to reeelleet that ear
thethelel Mks's& hie le he mole seder very peculiar
orisseetsses is* that, wiping with /ease,, I shall
hese Mid& le as slier see ether awl sly Imperials
qthedsme—ethelhel. he szlin44l sake
thesses le the ads the raver arm
esstelbste mos le the Malted's es* iodise d the pee-
d* l whether sea ellerelles mg he eased is the
sum resse hen lodes does do Isseedes et= I
red Weeds ; ohm elk pulum*AW gbethee we
=I take this 4gi•UIV sod e•
mania
es eelespples- was MOO le Se isplemease

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, DECEMBER 4, 1852.

allotted lau

when, se I have shown, the sum unlace
negh;en exhabsted—((b—althompb I
iltfjor:proKl isinnigra Mines* Km
ibigt sheen may ennpletivit of tl
40 that oeioni. Maar, May, I new INN
didia—namely,lbe refinement of sugar is bee____
if/Amu well iss for foreign coesemptiso. We have
.only this gatelike. In old days oat geenjoik
was ably vindicated by my noble friend Uri' Chung No.
Seek, and I and my colleagues have considered it. There
is no doubt that tt would he • great boon to the eager
colonies. (Hear, hear,) T will put the lees thus, and sup
pon that tile year 1854 had arrived, i 8 'that there Is
thei no differential duty, but that alt sui*- Pty. a duty ad
10e. We are told that the mushartne matter of
sugar awaked is so muds frosisr Hoe that of Leo%
sugar, that putting one huotirod 1110011 @Oast ameba
the proportion is as 90 to 70 or 76 in Watt belie sow,
and as regards the coarse East Toad elver as
90 to 60. The house will see that when the
duties are equal on raw produce, that which preens of
suutufacture is so much better has, in fact, a difereadal
duty in its favour. If there is the same dut os two kinds
lewdness the relative proportions of which In the proses
eintinoufseture ass es 711 to 90, there is virtually a dia
led's' day betas= tbs. What we are asked is that the
ewe& be rulloal to hood, and that the duty shall be
pissed en tits sollned sugar, and not on the wane. There
are to otsn in which are involved eonsideratioas
tear lbe revenue of the country. But I de cot
*ha KM SON ontaiderations of revenue should be set
against **jolt aim of the colonies. Here we have an
=iriof falhedini a great boon to the colonies con-
wi yth the peimeiple of unrestricted competition.
Oaths part of the goverment, then, I secede to that boas,
balsam that it will be • great relief, and give a great
kiosks' to the manufacture of colonial sugar. (Cheers.)
I will sot sew say anything with regard to the allowing of
MOWING to be used in brewing, and the equalisation of the
duties as ran and home-made spirits, for the same reason
that I did est enter on the quid= of the stamp duties on
charter ormarinc einsunusees. Titers is anothersubject
to whhioehh, before I enter on the general question, it is neces-
sary that I should advert. That subject has reference to
the local taxation of the country. Now, the local taxation of
the country is • subject with which wears so familiar, that I
treat of it now much more succinctly than probably I should
otherwise have done. Local taxation resolves itself into
three principal rates, all of which have been frequently
discussed in this house. Firstly, there is the highway rate,
which has been often brought before the house with refer-
ence to the question of improvement in its administration.
Then there is the county rate, which is eertainly
not considerable in its amount, but which has excited much
public interest, as involving the question of the introduc-
tion of the representative system as the governing principle
of its administration:: and then, the greatest and most im-
portant of all, the poor-rate. 1 shall not say much with
respect to the highway-rate. There have been no less than
six acts passed by this house for the better administration
of the highway-rate, and I had not intended to advert to
it, but that au lion. friend of mine, the Under-Secretary for
the Home Department, the member for Fetersfield, who is
so emineatly qualified for the task, and who presided with
such signal ability and unwearied industry over a com-
mittee of this house which sat on the subject of turnpike
trusts, sad has shown that he is a muter of the subject,
and who has been acknowledged to be so by the house,
has, although he has quite enough to do, assisted me
in the preparation of • bill on the question of
highway rates; and although it is • subject on which I did
not intend to touch to-night, yet I may state that we pro-
pou to introduce a bill regulating the administration of
highway rates, which even after six experiments have
already been made on the subject, and that by some very
able men, will, I trust, be found to be satisfactory in its
effects on the administration of those rate' and be received
with favour by the important districts to which it refers. I
come neat to the county. rate, which lathe smallest in point
of amount, but which is a subject of great interest to the
house and the country. I will say generally that with
regard to local administration the government enter-
tains no objection to the introduction of the repre-
sentative principle into any portion of the management
of the affon of the country into which it cat be introduced
with general content of the country and with advantage.
But, sir, I say frankly, that as far as the county rate is
concerned, I am not prepared to recommeni that change
which has been demanded. I come, then, to the considera-
tion of the poor-rate. In dealing with this class of rates—
not in any way changing my opinion that the absolute
incidence of all local taxation is perfectly indefensible in
point of principle—but looking to that which is most expe-
dient for the eountry generally, and most expedient for that
class which I think may be injuriously affected by present
arrangement—taking that view of the case alone—l will
now examine for a moment the poor-rate. (Hear, hear.)
Now, since 1818-1819, the last returns you had on
the table when I first called attention to the sub-
ject, you have had an average diminution in the
poor rate equal to the establishment charges. (Free
teed* ettessa) The expenditure fur the relief and the'
maintain= of the poor—as shown by the return which
was es tit' table when I spoke in 1819—which, however,
MN Met he 1849, but fur 1849.9—and which, of course,
argument and the origin of
e
um the basis of my entral
tie blic pu feeling of the country on the subject—was
10,190,00 U On the other hand, the expenditure for the
relief and maintenance of the poor for the year 1851—
Whisk is the last on the table of the house, thou; h I
still more recent returns to refer to—instead
Tbareing bare
6,180,0001. is 4,962,0001. (Great free trade
elseedng.) I am sorry for that interruption. I am afraid
that cheer was not merely a cheer on account of the
diminution of the poor rate. (Laughter.) I am afraid it
was • cheer for "recent legislation." (Great laughter.)
Mind you, I don't want to disturb recent legislation, as
Isbell show you to-night ; but I think your cheer was • very
ißogied one—(laughter)—and it induces me to show you
what otherwise I might not have touched on, for I don't
wait soy controversy—(laughter)—that recent legislation
may not, after all, have had anything to do with that re-
melt. (Laughter.) Look here. Recent legislation has oc-
audoned, aa you think, your poor rate in 1851 to be under
6,oooRooL—at was 4,962,0001.—0 n which you cheered ;
bat then, it so happened that in 1816 it was rather
lees. (Ministerial cheers.)
Mr. BRIGHT.—Yes, but there was the same pries of
torn. (Fns trade cheers.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.—I don't
know that. I think I could quote—though I don't want to
detain the house with any argument—l think I could pro-
duce some returns shout prices of corn which would rather
disturb the conclusion the hon. gentleman has arrived
at. (Ministerial cheers.) One return I remember quoting,
and of that Sir Robert Peel remarked that it should never
have been priated. (Ministerial cheers.) But there are
greater and graver subjects before us to consider than the
triumph of obsolete opinions. (Great laughter on the op-
tionbenches.) Yes, but that is the proper phew—
another burst of merriment, in which the whole
began to join, Interrupted the right hon. gentleman)
—for, rr, I look upon one-sided free trade as an obsolete
opinion, just as you look upon protection as being obsolete.
( j
Hear, hear.) And I am lost in the great principle of the
day—of unrestricted competition. (Cheers and laughter.)
But, to return, I must put these agues before the house.
They are very significant I have show. you that then
has been a diminution from 1848 to 18.51 of nearly
25 per cent. in the poor rats expenditure, which is se im-
portant point for me to consider u regards the expediency
of dealing with that rate. But though there has been, from
1648 to 1851, a diminution of nearly 400,0001. a year in the
poor rate, I have here the return of 18.52, and I am sorry
to say that that rate of diminution has not only ceased, but
that, in fact, very little diminution has taken place. (Hear.)
I have no doubt that the counteracting canoes that
for the moment have arrested its rapid diminu-
tioa may be discovered ; but I myself, nevertheless,
believe that there are circumstances—that there are
ether causes in operation that will propessively and even
immediately diminish the pauperismof the country.
(Loud cheers.) Well, then, sir, I have to con-
slur, under these circumstance., whether it would
be expedient to deal with the sum that is raised
by local taxation for the maintenance of the poor.
Wall, as my means are limited—looking, as I am anxious
to look, to the means by which I may must every suffering
class and every class which I think has a fair claim to the
consideration of the house—while those means shall, at the
same time be such as shall contribute to the general wel-
fare of the community—believing that the measures that
on the part of my colleagues I am about to propose to-night
have that tendency—that they will greatly most those who
I think have been subjected to a very severe trial, and, in
that respect, I consider, are liable to • taxation which, upon
priociple, cannot be defended.—l still am not prepared to
recommend any change whatever in the present system
of raising the local taxation of the country. (Loud cheers
from the free trade aide of the house.) Now, sir (continued
the right bou. gentleman, after an interval of a few mo-
ments), I have considered the three instances of particular
interests that have, In my opinion, suffered by recent legis-
lation: and I have placed before the house the general
views of the government with respect to those Interests.
(Hear, hesr.l I have had to consider after the
general election, and after the calm verdict of the
country—the general system of our taxation, end to
apply to it the principle of unrestricted competition.
I had to ask myself, " What are the measures which are
best to recommend to parliament now that this principle is
formally anddefinitivelyestablished—what are the measures
most consistent with that principle, and which will permit
the community to encounter that competition which they
must now, in every form and in every sense, be pre-
pared to meet?" It is the boast of hon. gentlemen
opposite that they have given cheap bread to the cam-
usually. But the principles upon which you have given
cheap bread to the community are exactly the principles
which ought to make you cheapen the sustenance of the
community in every point of view. (Cheers) And I think
I shall be able to show to the house that if they adopt
that principle of finance, they will in a legitimate man-
ner—without expressly intending it. without going out
of their way, without any artificial means—be Riving the
greatest possible impulse to every branch of the industry of
the country, and especially to thou very branches that hero
*offered most by recent legislation. (Cheers.) The house,
therefore, being thus put in possession of our views, will
not be astonished that her Majesty's government are pre-
pared to recommend the house to deal with the malt tax.
(Ministerial cheers.) The ',Living duty on malt is
2s. 70. and five per cent. per bushel. The con-
sumption has increased. In 1819 it was 38,935,000
bushels ; in 1830 it was 40,744,000 bushels ; and in 1851 it
was 40,337,000. But, though lacy seed, there is no article
of consumption which has less proportionately increased
with other artieles—(hear, hear)—and the diminution of
the consumption of which I think can be more clearly
attributed to the large tax which Is levied upon it, and to
the restrictions which it occasions. (Hear, hear.) The
sum which we have to deal with is a sum which exceeds
An millions as regards the revenue, sod we poppets that

duty exactly by one-half. We
duty of le. 31d., and Spar cent.
dam embers and bigg. We puree, oleo to
de away the melt drawback in Scotland ent spirits
robed fins' malt. That drawback has already ben re-
sesneed by Ireland as unnecessary ; end it was reemniesided
by the Oeinseissionere of Excise loquiry,as ose whieheimitild
hetenaiseesi wbeserrer there was any considerable rellsetios
of *tided, on malt, We propose then that en the 10th of
Oct. the malt duty shall be reduced ow half. We fixed
upon that period of course after • full eseasination into the
pubs when the change could take place with the least in-
'enevenienc• to the trade, ands we believe to the most
general benefit of the Unienunity ; and the 10th of October
is the day on which we propose to take the stock in malt
throughout the country, and of course we shall guard those
who are pomesson of malt from competition as far as part
of the mount of the duty to which they are subject guts.
So far as that they will receive • drawback. Now
I emu to another breach of the subject. I
come to deal with an article as popular :with the
people u malt, as much a necessary of life, sad subject to a
sash heavier tax. lam about to recommend to the house
to deal with the tea duties. (Hear, hear.) I know
there is • prejudice that exists among a cer-
tain class of persons upon the subject of the
tea duties. Having had occasion to look very
much into this guestiou I have been astonished to ace the
progress of opinion, the gradual formation of opinion, upon
• subject now almost of paramount Interest in this country.
I hardly know anything more amusing than to open Pepys'
Diary, where you find it stated :—" Took a cup of the new
China drink. Very pleasant." (Laughter.) This exotic
novelty, as it wee not two centuries ago, which then
pleased this fantasia gentleman, is now the principal
solace of every cottage is the kingdom. But the great ob-
jection that has been raised at different times to reducing
the duty—for I think it right to state a case of this kind as
Girl y as piessible—is that in dealing with tee we deal with an
article of limited production. True it is that when Mr. Pepys
took his cap of the new China drink, true it is that since the
commencement of the last century only 600,000 lbs. of tea
were imported into this country in one year, yet that im-
portation has gone on till we have needed an importation
of more than 70,000,0001b1. a year, and that at cheaper
prices; and these are facts which tend to show that the
production cannot be limited. A production so immensely
increased, and always brought forward at a lower price,
appears to be one in which the supply cannot be likely to
fail. But in the year 1834, shortly after the Reform Bill,
and when the charter of the East India Company wee about
to be renewed, and the trade wee about to be opened, it
wee always urged by persons of authority, against
opening the trade with China, that we should be
greatly disappointed in what we did, because the supply
of tea being limited, it was quite impossible that there
should be any reduction in the price. The supply of tea
was then about 30,000,0001 U. per annum. Now we last
year imported the unprecedented amount of 71,466,000 lbs.,
and the consumption sou in round numbers 64,000,000.
It is quite clear, therefore, that the importation of tea is
still in arrear of our consumption, and it is quite clear,
therefore, that the duties which exist, which are now near
240 per cent., check consumption. Well, whether we look
to the gradual increase in the consumption of tea, whether
we look to the broad fact that the importations, which were
30,000,000 lbs. under the chart r, under the restricted trade,
have increased to 71,000,000165. under the freer trade,though
subject to • colossal duty, when we look at all the evidence
before us, when we look to the gradual diminution of prices,
we have a right, I think, prima facie to conclude that
there will be no difficulty in supplying the demand for: tea
in this country. But her Majesty's government, in dealing
with this subject, have not deemed it consistent with their
duty merely to depend on their own conclusions. They
had the opportunity of consulting those who are great
authorities on this subject, men who by their foreign resi-
dence, their peculiar study of the subject, and by their
natural aptitude for:forming conclusions on such matters,
should guide the judgment of any administration; they
have applied to those who are best capable of
forming an opinion; for, of course, forming an opinion
of a country like China is more difficult than
with some countries, nevertheless we have now some know-
ledge of China, there are individuals who are competent to
guide even a government on such subjects ; and it has been
represented to us, after giving to this question the most la-
borious investigation, and having omitted no efforts to
attain the most accurate information, having suggested
every means and every test by which that information
could be brought to bear—having even personally had the
honour and satisfaction of conferring with some peculiarly
qualified to form an opinion on the subject—we hive ar-
rived at a conclusion which, to use the most moderate ex-
pression I can command, is that there are no prospects of
any want of supply of tea to this country. Well, it is under
these circumstances that we deal with this question. We
must remember some facts of importance—we must re-
member that since the year 1811 the gradual, the annual
increase of the consumption of tea has been 1,727,00016 n.
This is the gradual increase which has taken place in the
consumption of tea even at a duty, I think, of 240 per cent.,
while the increase during the last two or three years has
been must larger. The increase during the lest six years
without any reduction in duty has been nearly 10,000,000
lbs.; for in 1861 the consumption was 54,000,000, and in
1844 it was 41,000,000. That is only in six years.
(Hear, hear.) The present duty upon tea, in addition
• to the 5 per cent., is 2s. 21d. per lb. ; and without making
, any distinction in the quality of the tea, we propose to
; reduce that duty to la. per lb. (Loud cheers.) We pro-
; pose that, following the example of the sugar duty, that
reduction shall take place during the term of six years—
, (loud cries of " Oh'—and that in the fleet year there shall
be a reduction of 4 .in the lb. ("Oh, oh.)" Sir, there
is one duty whit I am about to deal with, which
is connected with this branch of the subject ; and to which
I ought perhaps to have adverted before. I mean the hop
, duty. (Hear, hear.) We are unwilling to make this
effort to give cheap beer to the people without dealing
with one important ingredient of that beverage. The
• house is aware that there are two duties now levied upon
hope. There is the old duty which was put on in the
time of Queen Anne ; and there is the war duty which
was imposed during the last continental struggle. They
are both equal in amount, and in round numbers (for
they ere calculated in fractions) they amount to one penny
each. What we propose is that the war duty, which is a
very unpopular one, and one that ought never to have been
; continued, shall be remitted. (Murmurs.) At present we
do not propose to take off all—something must be left for
future statements of this kind. (Loud laughter.) Still, sir,
I think that the reducing the hop duty one half, and the
malt duty one half—reducing likewise the tea duties imme-
diately to a considerable extent, and establishing a ma-
chinery that will bring them down to one shilling per
pound, it cannot be said that we have been
neglectful of the claims of • community sub.
• jested to the principles of unrestricted compe-
• titian. (Load cheers.) Now, sir there is one point
; of sense importance which, I think, I ought to touch upon.
We an raising the revenues of this country on the princi-
ple that they will mainly depend upon the consuming power
, ads* people. But, sir, it bee bean said of late, and it his
; been bruited about with considerable§ vehousenee, that the
consuming pewee of the people is beim rapidly impaired,
, and that modern asenossiste have node • mistake.
Now, there is no desist that if we look to the re-
tars of the Migration Comatissicesses there is a greater
amount at *magnum from this soontry than is (muster-
!Warmed by the births that have takes place in Itogland
and Wales. In the year 1849 the emigrants were In round
I numbers 300,000. In 1850 they were 280,000; la 1831,
33-5,000; and to October 1, 1852—which is the paled saw
; prised by the latest returns I have, that Is, three-quarters
of a year in 1862—the numbers are aeuly equal in amount
to the whole of the year 1&51, namely, 332,000. There is
• no doubt, moreover, that the births in this country in 1851
, were in round numbers little more than 600,000, and the
deaths 400,000; so that it would seem by these returns
that. while the difference between the births and the deaths
was 200,000, the number of the emigrants exceeded that su-
perfluity of births over deaths by considerably above 100,000.
But if these figures are • little examined—if they are a
, little saslysed—it will be found that there is no foundation
for the conclusions which have been es hastily drawn from
i them. In the first place, the returns are confined to Eng-
land and Wales. (Hear, bear.) In the second place, the
amount of our emigration has been two-thirds from Ireland,
a country which does not figure in the returns. (Hear,
hear.) Then, sir, we are forced to consider the different
causes which have produced the emigration from Ireland
and from England. In Ireland it is produced by a social
system which hes broken to pieties, and by the misery of
the people. (Hear, hear.) But emigration in England is
produced by circumstances exactly the contrary. The
people of England were never better off, but they have a
foreign inducement which acts upon their spirit and energy ;
and they are determined to seek even better fortunes than
they have experienced at home. (Hear, hear.) That is the
point, and that is the great differenise between the causes
• which produce emigration from the two countries. The
emigration from England is only 100,000 yearly against an
addition of 200,000 to its population. (Hear, hear.) There
is nothing, one would suppose, excessively to be &ppm-
; heeded in the fact, that our emigration is stimulated by the
higher aspirations of our countrymen, and not by misery.
(Hear, hear.) So far the facts are that 100,000 quit us au-
, neatly, when the natural increase of our population is
200,000. But if there were 200,000, or even 300,000, I can-
, nut admit that emigration under those circumstances would
be a source of weakness to the country, or that the finances
of the country would show a serious diminution. On the
contrary—though I would shrink from anything like para-
dox on a subject so grave—on the contrary, my opinion is
that it has • tendency to increase our resources. Every
emigrant meetly becomes an English colonist, and every
English colonist Weenies an English customer. (Hear,
hear.) Oor markets are stimulated and wages are
improved by :;that very circumstance. (Hoar, hear.)
Are these signs of dissolution or decay ? (Cheers.) Even
if I look to Ireland, where the emigration takes place under
circumstances so contrary, I am still obliged to arrive at the
same conclusion. The honourable gentleman the mem-
ber for Wolverhampton said to me, the other night,
' that the discovery of gold, like the production of
any other article, has gives activity to commerce,
but no more than any other article would give ; and
he called spin me to meet him upon that important point.
I di sot think that that was exactly the night on which it
was necessary to enter into that discussion ; hut I deny the
position of the hon. gentleman, that the discovery of gold,
like say other article, has given activity to commerce, but
no more. I say that it has given activity to commerce ;
and not only es, but that it has an influence upon the
commercial operations of this country which no other
article has. (Cheers.) And I say that the discovery of
' gold, with a currency such as we possess, has established
credit in this country in a manner which no political econce
mist could have dreamt of. (Cheers.) It has increased
and confirmed credit in this country : and the in-
, crease and confirmation of credit hat of course
immensely tended to the employment of the people.;

should diodwish tt,
wit to 14 a wallow
ith ...
aid alwa °dim
w -

That man would indeed be blinded by prejudice who should
shut his eyes to such a consequence. (Hear, hear.) But
the main question' at this moment is, will the present rate
of interest last? (Hear, hear.) I will not conceal my
*pinks—though perhaps, it is imprudent to declare it—that
the present rate of interest will (whatever may be our com-
mercial imprudencies, which I should deprecate as much as
any one) continue. (Chun.) I believe that the present
, fate of interest depends upon conditions and circumstances
which never before prevailed in this country ; that they are
natural circumstances and permanent conditions; and that if
we act only with tolerable prudence, with such an advan-
tage as • low rate of interest arising from natural causes,
this country has such an opportunity of making great ma-
terial progress as never occurred before, even in the
visions of any statesman. (Cheers.) Sir, by the re-
AticUou of the tea duties to the amount of 400,0001.
(the actual reduction will be much more, above
900,00014 and by the reduction of the hop duty,
which is a fluctuating amount, but which on an
average we may take at 300,000/. —1 have proposed
reductions to the amount of between three and four
millions sterling. But I must remind the house that I
though this is only December, in a few months one of the
principal sources of the revenue of the country will
terminate, and that if they support the propositions or
the government, they must not only encounter those great
remissions of taxation, and some great diminution of
revenue in consequence, but they must also be prepared to
deal with the consequence of a law expiring which now
gives us morn than five millions sterling of reve-
nue, and that is the property and income tax.
It becomes, therefore, the duty of the house to
decide what they will do with regard to the property and
income-tax. Nuw, air, I am clearly :of opinion that,
if we are to have recourse to direct taxation, that
direct [taxation should be as general, at least in its
theory, as indirect taxation. (Hear, hear.) How far
it may be so in its actual operation is for the com-
mittee to consider ; but I hays no hesitation in saying that
the theory of establishing direct taxation upon a system, a
large system, of exemption'', is one of the moat pernicious
that could be entertaiaed, and ought not to be continued.
(Cheers.) Therefore, in offering to the house the views
which her Majesty's ministers entertain with respect to the
property. and Income tax, I venture to lay it down as a ge-
neral principle, that, in considering that tax, our direct
taxation should be, at least in theory, as general as indirect
taxation. (Hear, hear.) Sir, when I consider the eery
large exemptions which are connected with that tax, there
bone which I am bound at once to notice and take into con-
sideration; and it is the largest exemption connected with
the income and property tax ; and that is—lreland. (Loud
cheers and laughter from both sides of the house.) Sir 11.
Peel in his financial statement in 1842, when he first intro-
duced the property and income-tax, proposed to impose upon
Ireland, as au equivalent for the property and income-tax,
two measures. There was to be increased duties upon
spirits, which he estimated would produce 250,0001. a year;
and there were to be some additional stamp duties in
matters affecting property, the produce of which he esti-
mated at 160,0001., making altogether 410,000/. a year.
That was to be the contribution of Ireland, in another
form, but as an equivalent for its not contributing Ito the
aggregate property and income-tax of the United Kingdom.
Now, I must remind the house, although one would like
always to be taking off taxes, and never rcininding any
gentleman that he has not paid these that were expected
from him—(laughter)—yet I must state that the spirit duties
which were estimated at '250,0001. were rescinded,
it being found that they stimulated illicit distillation;
while the aggregate received from the additional stamps
was this:—The stamp duties produced, in 1839, before the
property sod income tax was imposed, 410,0001., and in
18.52, 486,0001. (Hear, hear.) So that Ireland has contri-
buted to the property and income, instead of 410,0001., just
16,0001. per annum. (Cheers, and laughter.) But, not-
withstanding all that, it is impossible to be insensible to
what Ireland has had to go through during the interval.
But the state of Ireland is not now without a ray of hope.
(Cheers.) As far as I can form an opinion—and I can
assure my Irish friends that I have taken the utmost
pains to make myself acquainted with the condition of that
country—l think I may venture to speak of Ireland with-
out mute the Language of despair, or the accents of desola-
tion. (Cheers.) You have had a crushing Poor-law—
(hear, hear)—but what is your present position with re-
spect even to that overwhelming burden ? Is it mitigated ?
Is it more endurable? Permit me to place before the
house the returns of the present incidence of poor-law tax-
ation on Ireland. I do not want to insult any gentleman
by showing him that his country is not ruined. (Cheers,
and laughter.) I am only anxious to fulfil my duty to-
night—to convey, as far as I can, a correct view of the
state of her Majesty's dominions to her "faithful com-
mons." (Ikar, hear.) Here is a comparative summary,
in provinces, of the expenses incurred in the poor-law
unions of Ireland during the financial years ending 29th of
September, 1850, 1851, and 1852 respectively. It is drawn
up to end of the last parochial year. Now, the poor-law
expenditure in 1850 amounted to the enormous sum of
1,329,000/. In 1851, it was reduced to 1,129,0001.
(Hear, hear.) In the year ending 29th &member,
1852, the poor-law expenditure, which was 1,320,0001.
'
in 18-50, had become 855,0001. (Cheers.) Tho decrease of
expenditure in 1851, as compared with 1850, was in amount
nearly 200,0001., and at the rate of 14 per cent. The de-
crease of expenditure in 1852, as compared with 1851, was
in amount 214,0001., at the rate of 24 per cent. The de-
crease in expenditure for the year just concluded, 18.52,
as compared with 1850, was in amount not less than
466,000/, and a per mintage of 3). (Hear, hear.) Now,
sir, when one has this authentic and gratifying return be-
fore one, I say one is juetified in not altogether despairing
of the condition of Ireland. (Cheers and laughter.) In
Connaught alone, as compared with 1850, the diminution
has been 116,0001., and the rate of diminution 48 per cent.
(Hear, hear.) Now, in looking at the condition of Ireland,
I must call the attention of the house to another fact ; be-
cause it completes the picture of the incidence of poor-law
taxation in Ireland, of which we have heard so much com-
plaint—and justly so. (Hear, hear.) I do not deny that
our friends in Ireland have suffered from the severe inci-
dence of this taxation ; I do not deny that they have gone
through a terrible ordeal ; but I must say of
them, as I have said in reference to the NVest
that what I can deal with must be their present Position,
aid not their past. (Hear, hear.) The object of
establishing • comprehensive and complete poor-
law in Ireland has been finally accommished ; and the
whole of Ireland is now able to maintain its own poor,
without external pecuniary assistance from any quarter."
(Hear, hear.) Seth is the condition of Ireland. I do not
say that it is perfect. Do not let my hon. friends suppose
that I am one of those who, by malignant misrepresenta-
tion, would avoid doing justice to their calamities.
(" Hear, hear," and laughter.) All I ask is, that they will
admit that, having gone through frightful difficulties, and
borne them like men,. their position is very much improved.
(Hear, hear.) That is all I ask. But there are other rea-
sons which may be advanced why Ireland should not longer
enjoy exemption from the income tax. People have said
that, instead of contributing 460,0001., as was expected,
that country has only paid 16,0001. People have not been
disinclined. in a somewhat churlish manner, to forget the
sufferings and sorrows of Ireland in that circumstance.
But there) are other complaints, of a very difficult cha-
racter to deal with, with regard to not extending the
income tax to Ireland. The Governor of the Bank
of England has made an official representation,
that at the present moment the Bank of Ire-
land is prepared to purchase terminable annuities,
but that it is impossible for the Governor of the Bank of
England to contend against the Governor of the Bank of
Ireland, because the latter does not pay any income tax.
Many interests, he says, require redress, but I have no
doubt that before you make the financial statement, you
will consider the Bank of England, for no interest is more
unjustly treated than the Bank of England with respect to
property and income tax. (Hear.) Another awkward and
delicate point is, that people wive come here receive their
money in Ireland, and do not pay any duty there. (Hear.)
I mention these things to show what a delicate and difficult
thing is an income tax based on exemptions. Now I shall
venture to treat this great question in the following
manner. (Hear, hear.) I do not think myself
that it would be wise to treat with any hardship the
landed interest of Ireland. They have gone through a
great deal, and I should be sorry to pounce on Ireland
and say you must pay your quota. (Hear.) I think, how-
ever, that we should do everything: to assist that wise,
just, and beneficial change which has taken place in Ire-
land. (Cheers and laughter.) I do not think it is expe-
dient that we should throw obstacles at the present me-
sment in the way of the regeneration of that country. But
I most say this—remembering what the governor of the
Bank of England has said—that I shall feel it to he m
duty, when I lay before the house tho schedule on which I '
intend to recommend the reconstruction of the new income
tax, to extend the property and income tax in ke-
lt:id to funded property and salaries. (Hear, hear.) An
hon. gentleman and friend of mine asked me the other
night whether her Majesty's government were prepared
to carry into effect the recommendations of the committee
of the House of Lords with regard to the consolidated an-
nuities. I have the opportunity of stating so-night that'
the amount of the consolidated annuities is 240,0001. per
annum, or something like that amount. The house will
recollect how they came into existence. There was a loan
made to Ireland of 10,000,0001. ; subsequently that loan
was reduced to about one-half. I was always of opinion,
and it is still my belief, that that loan was in a great
degree made to meet an imperial calamity—(hear,
hear) and, considering it in that light, I do
not object to the arrangement made in any sense
whatever. But the house understands that the
balance of that loan, after being reduced by this great
amount, was thrown into the form of consolidated annui-
ties, which are calculated with reference to the peculiar
character of each case. I must refrain from entering at
large upon the diseussion of this subject ; but, from the
appeals made to me, I am not free to avoid all allusion to it.
I have shown the house to-night that in 1852. as compared
with 1851, there has been a diminution in the charge for
poor rate is Ireland to the amount of 274,0001., and this is
a sum considerably greater than the amount of
the whole consolidated annuities. Now, I beg my
hon. friend to rememeber what I have said with refer-
ence to the people of England who are suffering from what
they consider the unjust incidence of local taxation. I
have shown how the reduction in the amount of pauperism I
is greater this year than the amount of the whole establish-'
went charges, and I beg to tell my hon. friend also that in
considering this question, he must remember that the state
of Ireland is much improved since the recommendation of
the committee of the House of Lords. (Hear.) Let me
will
considero f not be misinterpreted. It ie the intention of her Majesty's
government to consider that question, but they do nut
the otthhaetr
intend to be bound In say way by the recommends-
questi
llouso
o ocfntirie'arlylian'on its entTheyoww
merits, and I have
.rnyeelf prepared a measure with
regard to it, a hich I shall submit to the cottaidoratioa of

the hoax—a tpeasure which I believe to be justified by
circumstances, and will be beneficial in its operation.
(Hear, hear.) But let not hon. gentlemen go away with
the belief that her Majesty's government are about to carry
into operation the particular recommendations of the noose
of Lords With regard to the property and income tax, 1
have laid down one principle—namely, that as far as pea.
Bible direct taxation should be as general es indirect, and
that any measure, hued on a large scale of exemptions,
the house ought not to tolerate. (Hear, hear.) But there is
another principle which her Majesty's government are pre-
pared to assert with regard to this important question, and
that in, to acknowledge a difference between permanent and
precarious incomes. (Loud cheering.) Sir, I will not eater
Lorebsteharatecv aii.ofatarcsi
necessarily
t asnii
impossible
cyhei
bt as
lremaining
ocoe un
ted ont noo
wv
whicha r
intoioes!
into any argument on that subject now. Though I have
l
r
must
felinet
ur
ta
curtailed
advert,emrey
discussion on a subject that deserves, and probably will
require, on the part of the House of Commons prolonged
and mature deliberation. (Hear, hear.) My uhjeet to-night
is to make an exposition of the policy which her Majesty's
government are prepare -el to re. °amend, and all that I
have to do is to place it before the house in as clear a MU.
ner as 1 can. Being of opinion that in constructing asp
measure for a property and income tax, the direct taxation
should be as general as the indirect, that it should not be
based on any system of exemptions, and that a difference
should be recognised by the legislature between realised
and precarious incomes, I shall now offer to the
house the rates of duty ouch as government are pre.
pared to re.commend the adoption of to parliament. (Hear.)
Sir, notwithoseding the large remission of taxation
which her Majesty's government recommead—a remis-
sion amounting immediately to 3,5e0,0001.—and
evep-
tuslly relieving the econeumers or the country to a
much greater extent—it is not the intention of the
government to recommend any increase in any sea
of the schedules of the property and income tax,
(Cheers.) I will first state to the committee the exemptions
which we think it is expedient for the house to 'legalise
and unction. We shall recommend with respect to all in-
dustrial incomes th et the exemption shall he limited to
a year—(hear, hear)—that being the point at which
we consider wages to cuter into the calculations. Upon
incomes arising front property we take the peat
of exemption at We a year. (Hear, hear.) I have
now to detail to the house the rate of elettvence which we
recommend to establish between schedules It, 11, and p,
and the two schedules of realised property. (Beer, hear)
I have already told the house that it is not our Weenie
to inereaee the rate in schedules A and C. We peeves*
to take them as they now exist—namely, at 7el. We propose
that the rate upon the other seledu.et, should be esti-
mated at three-fourths of the present rate. The rate
therefore, in schedules B, C, and D, will he meetly'
djd., which is three-fourths of 7d. The produce of
schedule A, I calculate, will be as heretofore,
2,649,0001. The produce of schedule B—the farmers'
schedule—we propose to estimate in this manner. We
take the estimated profits, not at one-half, Li is now
the ease, but at one-third. (Hear, hear.) We have ineesti.
gated this subject, and we find that, however active trade
may be, the whole tendency of reeeut yea% has been to
diminish profits, and I am quite persuaded that the test of
tho farmer's profit has been placed too high. (H. ar.
hear.) We have therefore taken the profit at one-third
instead of one-half. Consequently under schedule B
we calculate upon 156.0t01., which is exactly half the
present amount. From schedule C we calculate
on as at present 716,000!. under the 7d. rate. From Hat
the mitigated rate, we calculate on 1,162,0001. ; from E at
the mitigated rate, 21't,0001. The total of the five schedules
will therefore be 4,961,000/. I estimate the increa-e which
will arise from industrial incomes up to W., end property
incom aup to 501. a year, at 430,0001. But I think it right
to say that in that estimate I have taken into emaideration
the position of the clergy of the established church who
hive not more than 100 i. The position of the cleritymaa, from
thee manner in which the duty is raised, would be a severe
and unfair one. (Hear, hear.) He is rated under schedule
Aat the highest scale, and would therefore have to pay
according to that, whereas a dissenting minister having
1001. a year, being rated on the scale of salaries, would
receive the advantage of the mitigated estimate. (Hear.)
Now the position of a clergyman is, in truth, that of a man
working for a salary, whilst, from the nature of the pro.
perty out of which he obtains the sources of his mainte-
nance, he would derive no advantage from the reduced
scale. It is neccesary, therefore, that a special provision
should be introduced to meet his case. (Hear, hear.)
The probable diminution on this account will be
about 30,0e0/., but as this has been taken into account
it would not of the figures I have already given. The
total amount, therefore, is 5,361,6001. I out down Ireland
at the modest sum of 60,000/. (Laughter.) The total
sum, therefore, will be about 6,421,0001. Generally speak-
ing, I think the result will be that the average produce of
the new property and income tax will bo nearly the Mlle
as under the existing act. Perhaps it may be advisable to
rgvide for some slight diminution, but generally speaking,
p I think the produce will be the same as the averts pro-
duce during the last three years. 'Therefore, if the house
agrees to our proposition, it will not elect our financial
position. Assuming for the moment that the property and
income tax, as I have now laid it before the hotter,
will not affect our budget for the year, it now becomes
my duty to approach the ways and means by %Inch the
diminution of revenue, occasioned by the mea,ures I have
proposed on the part of the government, may be met.
(Hear, hear.) ;It is necessary for me, however, before that,
to make some reference to a subject of great interest, and
which will also increase our expenditure. It will be my duty,
on an early occasion, to place before the house a supple-
mentary estimate of the expenditure this year, with refer-
ence to the national defences. (Hear, hear.) It will be of
course necessary for me, in stating the expenditure and in.
come for 1613-1854, to lay before the house the reasons
which induce us to ask the house to take into consideration
the necessity of the expenditure far this purpose ; but still
this is a most convenient moment to advert to that subject.
(Hear.) The government have arrived at the conviction—
and tepidly of late have they arrive I ae. it -that it is of pri-
mary importance that the shores of this country should be
protected, and that the defence of this country should be
complete. (Hear, hear.) On considering the question, we
thought that the best course was to do the thing coat-
plorely ; we thought that the best thing we could do was
to put the navy of this country in the position in which 7P3
believe all Englishmen wish to see it, and the plans which
we have matured, and which if the house support our pro-
position will be carried into complete effect, are plans that
will settle this question of national defence for ever -
(ironical cries of " hear, hear ")—that is to say, you will
have all your arsenals and strong points in the kingdom
defended, and you will have a real channel fleet,
which Can assemble from its different resdes-
Tons is a moment when necessary, and which is the
proper garrison and protection of the country. (lieu.)
The atate of the finances, as I shall show in a few minutes,
will perfectly warrant use in asking for the expenditure
for the present year to be supplied from the ways and
means, and for the next year we shall ask for an estimate
which will increase our peeled estimates by about
600,0001. (Ministerial cheers.) Well, eir, having told the
house that it will be my duty to ask for a supplementary
estimate fur the expenditure of this year, which has oc-
curred since the appropriation act, I think it will be conve-
nient for me to give them some account of the present state
of their finances, so that they may form an opinion as to
what will be the surplus at the end of the present finan-
cial you, from which the supply must be 'Waded for the
supplementary estimate, and for the expenditure of the year
since the appropriation. The house will recollect that is the
early part of the year, when I offered an estimate of what
would be the surplus, I said the amount would be
460,0001. But in making that statement I announced my
intention of asking for a vote of 203,0001 additional for the
Kaffir war. The committee will perhaps ate Meet that on
a subsequent occasion I came down and announced that it
would not be necessary to ask for that vote ; and, there-
fore, the estimated surplus, according to my statement, wee
virtually a surplus of 660,000!. There hu been a reduction
made in the biterost of the floating debt of about 400,0001.,
and that, in fact, would make an estimated surplus upon
our data, which I had before me early in the year, of
700,0001. Now, I will show the house how our finances
have been working since the commencement of the
financial year in April. The state of our revenue is
extremely favourable. (Cheers.) I calculated at tbe be-
ginning of the year that there would be a diminution of
something more than 100,0001. on the customs. 1 took
into consideration the stimulus given to consumption in the
Exhibition year; I also took into consideration the tcduc-
tion that has taken place this year in the sugar duties. I
thought, therefore, that we ought not to press too mach
upon the customs; they had done their duty very wells
and we must not be alarmed if there was this year a slight
diminution. The street stimulus to the consumption of the
Exhibition year, and the reduction in the sugar defies
would, in my opinion, occasion sonic diminution, and I
took that diminution at somewhere about 100,0001. Well,
I think there will be a diminution in the Customs of
about 100,0001. From the beginning of the financial
year to the present time there has been generally an increase
—it has fluctuated, but I think my estimate will be exactly
fulfilled. I estimated a slight advance in the Excise—if I
recollect right, 60,0001. There is at prevent a much greater
increase in the excise ; but I am not prepared to aty that
at the end of the present year my estimate will be exceeded;
it perhaps may, but I think we ought not ho count upon
that. I estimated that the stamps would be about the semi
as last year. The stamps have increased every week the
increase has never for a moment ceased, and the total in-
crease in stamps from the sth of April to the 27th of No-
ember was nearly 300,000!. I estimated • considerable
reduction in the property tax. 1 said it was
114CCOUry to calculate that we might lose 150,0001.
on that tax. The property tax, like the stamps, has
been increasing even, week progreasively, and at present,
instead of a limo( 150,0001., there is an increase of 187,0001 •
(Cheers.) It is not possible, of course, to give anything
like a formal statement at this moment. 1 thought, how-
ever, that it would be agreeable to the house to learn these
facts in an authentic manner. My estimated surplus being
virtually 700,0001., I think it would be safe on the part of
the committee to add 500,0001. to that from the inland
revenue: that I think they may most safely add. Theresa
some other increase upon which they may count; and ecte
tainly, with regard to our surplus on the sth of Apral this
year, taking the most prudent and the coidest calcidation, I
think that instead of 460,000/., the amount which I CM.
mated when I made my financial statement, we shall have
something approaching to 1,000,000'. more than that: I do
not think we can calculate upon less. [some remarkin-
audible in the gallery was here made by a leading member
of the opposition.] You roust rememlxe that I calculated
upon 10d,0301. lees on the property too, and I think the
whole amount will be from 1,300,000/. to 1,1041.001. I
think, therefore, that under those circumstances I may ask
a vote for the increased expenditure of this year. [Aft ob-
servation wail here made in an undertone by Sir C. Wood.)
I will put it on paper tomorrow or on Monday.