The Express.
London, England, 1863-06-09 00:00:00

eparatere be esishiwases mod injurious to the interests of
Ma established einireti.
The Earl of DERBY said it was with sincere regret that
he felt it to be his paieful deity to exprees opinions opposite
111111000 of hi est& friend who had just sat down. He
weeded to the malodors of their lomanipe whether, from
that time to the preent, he had not supported every mu
are calculated to uphold the integrity of the church, and
opposed every measure which in any manner threatened
iY interests or independence. (Hew, bear.) In support-
ing the preseet bill be did not believe he wee easent-
tog to a roamers calculated to be injurious to the
church. lie spoked the bill as dealing with Roman catho-
lic* only, for although other denominations were included,
an case on their behalf had been brought forward, end in
point of fact no case could, he believed, be adduced in
which they refused to receive the ministrations of the chap-
lain of the prime. It had been urged over and over apin
that the bill was practically an endowment by the state of
the Roman catholic religion; but those who used that Argo-
meat greatly miewnoeived the essentials of an endowment.
le the firet place, it was essential to an endowment that the
poeitioe should be permanent; and next, that it should
not he depoodest upon the voluntary act or CID6CO
of any mu or set of men ; next, it should
be to all intents cad the pro Porty 'f
the party in it, for himself and
his ancomeces—earil7irtablished that it could be enforced
by law, and could only be withdrawn by the omnipotence of
perliamesat. What was the case with reference to this bill?
It provided that in say case in which the justices were of
opium that the member of Roman catholic prisoners was
so great that ia their judgment a Roman catholic chaplain
should be appointed, they should have power to appoint
such an officer; it likewise invested them with authority to
settle the salary he mould receive, and to dismiss him if
they tuought fit to do so. The essentials of an endow-
mot, were not only not to be found in the bill—
they were absolutely and studiously omitted nod negatived.
His noble friend contended that the present bill was not
'seeded, as the present law made sufficient provision for the
religious instruction of Roman esthetic prisoners. lie re-
gretted to differ from his noble friend also upon that point.
The provisions of the present law were, he thought, not
founded in justice—(bmar, hear)—and their injustice was
felt to be so greet that in all the principal prisons the ma-
gistrates had departed from the strict letter of the law.
That law was,
_that every prisoner, without distinction of
religion, should be visited by the chaplain of the prison.
He used his noble friend to reverse the picture, and to say
whether he would be satiafied—if this were a Roman
catholic country —that protestant prisoners should be
compelled to receive, whether th would or not, the
vials of a Roman mamba priest, and that the whole period
el their coofioemeat in prison should not be the curying
oat of a penal mature and an attempt at reformation alone,
hat one continued system of proselytism. (Hear, hair)
But it was argued that a Raman catholic prisoner could, if
lasso desired, see a minister of his own persuasion. The law
made no such diatinctioe, for it compelled the chaplain of
the prima to visit and to impart religious instruction to
every prisoner, so matter to what religion, denomination
he belonged. It was greatly to the credit of Roman catho-
lic primers that a great number of them had desired to
see the mesa at their church, L
and it was alai
pally to the credit of the priests thus called upon
that in no came had they failed to obey the summons.
With respect to protestant dissenters, there had been no
such demand, and for this very satisfactory MOOD. that
they were satisfied to receive the ministrations of the clergy
of the established church. There was no such broad de-
tection between protestant+ of different denominations, as
to prevent those of one /wet receiving religious instruction
from the clergy of another sect. (Hear, hear.) But the
ease of the Roman catholice was widely different, as they
were taught that to receive the teaching of a clergyman of
say other chusels, was to commit a grievous sin. He was
as sincerely opposed as any one could be to the
&cerise@ and practices of the Roman catholic church.
He believed that that church had overlaid the
simplicity of public worship with a vast amount of ogre-
monies • that the epiritual character of that worship was
marled by much that was merely *sterna He further
bellowed that many of the doctrines of the Roman catholie
shunts were sot only not supported by, but were absolutely
repugnant ad opposed to, the written word of God • and
that in some points to which they attached the greatest im-
portance, they derogated from the worship which should be
paid to God alone, and from the merits of Him whom pro-
tests:de ware taught to regard as the only Mediator between
God and man. But whatever he thought of the superstruc-
ture with which they had overlaid the foundation of spi-
ritual truth, he could not shut his eyes to the fact that
that foundation io both churches was the same. The
Roman catholic and the protestant acknowledged the
same God—the same Saviour—the same Mediator—
they looked for the remission of sins to the same quarter,
cad to the same quarter alone ; and every moral precept
that the Roman catholic church taught was derived from
the same scum —the source from which alone any autho-
rity in religions matters could be received. While, there-
fore, he believed that the doctrines of the Roman catholic
church might be totsgled with much of error, he believed
that the rural sad teaching of • Roman catholic
dergymen must have a powerful influence in reforming and
mereating the minds of HOMO catholic prisoners. (Hear.)
After a few words in explanation from Lord Litatuos,
The Earl of HARROWBY said that, giving the noble earl
opposite full credit for being interested by feelings of sin-
serity, he nevertheless thought he had arrived at an
unsound conclusion. A Roman catholic priest introduced
into a pol would be a kind of rival chaplain to the clergy-
nisa of the established church, and discusaions would remit
•
which would be iojurious.
The Earl of CHICHESTER felt it to be his duty to vote
for the second reading of this bill, but at the same time he
had strong objections to some of its provisions.
The Bebop of LONDON maid that, having considered the
mutter very carefully, and lowing listened attentively to
the speeches of noble lords, it did not upset to him that
the cause of justice would be forwarded hy the measure, if
carried. The noble earl who had just eat down had stated '
that it was DOD likely a Roman catholic chaplain would be
appointed in his part of the kingdom. If so this disunion
was 'Mindy one of principle, namely, whether it was right
at sot in this country, for the first time now, that •
step should be taken for appointing Roman catholic
chaplain' a to our great prisons. If the house decided
that it was, then came the question, where was the appli-
cation of the principle to stop? (Hear, hoer.)
The Earl of CORK thought there was • greet neceadty
fee • bill of some such nature as the one before their lord-
ship, end was only sorry it had not been made compulsory.
Boman catholic chaplains were already appointed to the
Queen, and surely there could be no greater danger in allow-
ing the minctratioes of religion to prisoners than to those
dying on the battle-field. It was his intention to support
the second reading of the bill.
Lord ARUNDEL of WARDOUR contended that if reli-
gious toleration had really any existence in this country the
Bantu catholic prisoner had • right to the ministrations of
chaplains of his own permission. While spiritual care was
denied to the Roman catholic criminal, the numbers who
returned to the prisons ought not to be cited as • reproach
to the Roman catholic'. . . _

The Earl of DONaGHIifORE complained of what he
described an • very offerive insinuation on the pert of the
Bishop of London, that the bill was supported, not on
account of its Whereat justice, but with the object of
obtaining the political support of the Roman catholic*.
The Bishop of LONDON explained that what he intended
to my was, that the ground, Jisiustice did not seem very
strong, and it might be sap by some that there were
other motives io the case. ' Hear,' and • laugh.)
Lord MELVILLE was of opinion that if the bill were
simply • • •it would be a nullity.
The hop of CIASELEL would give the greatest tolera-
tion in permitting Roman catholic priests to visit prisoners,
but held that it was an erroneous principle to aid that which
they believed to be false.
Their lordships divided :
, • .

For the iecond reading—Contenta
Not content .. :15

The bill was then read a secooaiicne: -
Their lordships unarmed at • quarter to 9 o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—MoiwAy, Jczrz 8.
The arum took the chair at 4 o'clock.
PUBLIC WORKS (FACTORY DISTRICTS) BILL.
Mr. C. VILLIERS brought in this bill, which was reed
a first time.
ROYAL COMMISSION.
Colonel CLIFFORD, the Yeoman Usher of the Black
Rod, summoned the house to attend the Rouse of Peen, to
hear the royal seat given by oornmissioa to several billa.
DEEP SEA FISHERIES.
Upon the return of the Sramtua,
Sir G. GREY brought up We reply of her Majesty to
the address of the house, praying fur a oonuxiieston to in-
quire into the deep sea fisheries, in which her Majesty
stated that abe bad received the address, awl had directed
that a commisidon should be appointed for that purpose.
(Hear, hear.)

POLAND.
Mr. HENNMSY gave notice that, on going into com-
mittee of supply on Monday next, he should move "That
en bumble eddies. be presented to her Majesty, thanking
her for the communication of the correspondent" on the
affairs of Poland, expressing the regret of the house at
learning from that corrapiudence that the Emperor of
Russia has violated the treaty of Vicuna, nod Mu set up a
sovereignty in Poland directly at variance with the treaty ;
and earnestly praying her Majesty that, while refusing to
recogasse that clime, she will adopt such matures is coo-
omit with other powers se may combine a preservation of
the legitimate rights of Poland with the conditions of a
amble pace."

THE SLAVE TRADE AND THE CONFEDERATE

glifni

OONINOHAti gave notice that on Thursday next
lte will ask the noble lord at the heed of the goveromeet
whether the efforts hitherto made by the Amish nation for
the suppressios of the slave trade might not with advantage
be extended to the contineot of America, and whether the
time had not arrived when it is the duty of the government
to enter into oegotiatiosa with the Federal states for the
purpose of .uppre.elog the slave trade a hide is still openly
carried on and sanctioned by the rebellious states of
America. Be alao gave notice that when the boo. and
learned member for Sheffitid brought forward his motion
for the recognition of the Confederate Slates be would mov
the preview' question.

RETRA POLICE FORCE IN TIPPERARY.

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