The Express.
London, England, 1862-07-25 00:00:00

de.. to olrehLe them.

Mr. COWPER replied that the government had already
purchased a site iment for the erection of the public
offi,ve, bounded by Downiog-street on the north, King-
street on the east, Charles-street on the south, and Bt.

FamesMs7par irnn the west. That site was larseiibsa they
required for the present wants of the (overarmed, and seve-
ral years would probably elapse before it wee fully used.
With regard to the houses lying between Bing-street and
Parliament-street, he thought it would be very desirable to
purchase them, not with a view to using their site as build-
ing ground. but for the purpose of widening Parliament.
street. (Hear, bear.) No steps, however, had been taken
towards that object since the project of Lord Llanover some
years ago was abandoned, and the government bad no funds
in hand for the purpose.

UNION RELIEF BILL.
Upon the order of the day for the mond reeding of this
. . .

Mr. POTTER thought that if the government had
adopted the plan of sending out • commisaion and
making • full and general inquiry, instead of confining
themselves to the large towns, they would have come
to another conclusion, and instead of introducing this
bill, would have proposed some exceptional measure to the
house. No mere alteration in the rates within the unions

or the county would meet the cue. Of course be was
thankful for what bad been done, but he hoped they would
find some means to prevent 300,000 of the very beet artisans
is the country becoming paupers. He believed that that
would require 100,0001. per month for the next six or seven
months, and he would in conclusion earnestly urge upon the
government a fuller consideration of the whole question
than was given by the bill on the table.
Colonel W. PATTEN was inclined to think that a much
more direct and efficacious remedy than that in the bill
would be first of all to fix the amount at which
_ .

Zostert,and then to enable the ratepayers of the different
townships to raise a loan on the security of the rates. (Hear,
hear.) There was also another difference in the manufac-
turing districts, viz., that a very large proportion of the
rates were payable by parties who were very little above the
line of demarcation between the ratepayers and the rate-
' receivers—(hoar. hear)—that, in fact, a large class of rate-
payer. were more seriously affected at the present moment
than almost the rate-receivers themselne. (Hear, hear.)

These ratepayers depended almost entirely on the custom
of the operatives, and that being suddenly and unex-
pectedly taken away they were not only deprived of
the usual mesas of existence, but were called upon to pay
the additional rates. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. J. B. SMITH said he had only received the bill that
morning, and as thews was much difference of opinion
among the representatives of the mauidesturing districts
with regard to it, he would suggest that the discussion
should be taken in committee.

Lord STANLEY thought it unfortunate that no propcei-
ties was made to enable parishes or unions to do what he be-
lieved in many instances they were maxims to do, viz., when
their immediate resources were exhausted, to draw upon
their future resources instead of throwing themselves upon
charity. It was said that these unions or parishes might
exercise this power of borrowing prematurely, before they
had sufficiently exhausted their present resources, and spend
the money rashly or hastily; but the Poor-lawßoardhadthe
remedy for this in their own bands. Nothing would be
easier then for them to say that the rate in aid should not
come into operation until the rates reached a certain
amount. (Hear, hear.)
Alderman SIDNEY objected to the bill, beeline it
did not provide that the rate in aid should
be levied at once on the whole county.
Mr. HENLEY thought they ought to fix some defi-
nite sum, say fia. or Ta in the pound, which the rates
should reach before the wish was deemed not able. If
they were to enact, as was proposed, that upon the expen-
diture, in any particular week, being two-thirds more than
it was iu a year or two before, they 'should rate other
parishes in aid, it would be abused. The parochial autho-
rities would borrow money in that particular week in
order that they might be able to go upon their
neighbours. He hoped that his right honourable friend
would amend this portion of the bill in committee. There
was another portion of the bill which would also want
amending. The hon. member opposite had pointed out dis-
crepancies in the rating of different parishes. Under this
bill it might happen that • parish might be rated in aid of '
another parish when its own rates were actually higher than
the rates of the parish it was rated in aid of. A suggestion
had bee, made that the pariahs* should be empowered to
borrow money to meet the present distress. He did not
approve of that, and especially after what had bees said
by his hon. friend near him (Colonel Wilson Patten), who
stated that two-thirds of the mills had been erected on
borrowed capital. He thought they ought not to depart
from the old principle in regard to poor relief. if things
were done in this burned way they were apt to be done not
very soundly, and therefore if there was to be any change
of principle it had better be done in a future session, when
it could be more maturely considered.
Mr. COBDEN said that the old law of Elizabeth, how-
ever it may be suited to Oxfordshire, would not now do
much for Rochdale, he was convinced under the existing
state of things and the impending emergency. It seemed
to be thought that we had only to levy rates in order to
get them paid, whereas rates could only be paid oat
of the product of industry, which in Lancashire
had nearly ceased. The lightness of the rates in
these districts hitherto hail been caused by their
prosperity; but now that prosperity was in a state
of paralysis, and there were no means of paying. He hoped
and believed that the present dearth of cotton was purely
exceptional ; it had not arisen from natural causes, and,
was, therefore, by so much the more difficult to deal with.
There were three or four millions of cotton in America in-
tercepted by a commercial blockade, and this large amount
hanging over the market prevented awr operations being en-
tered into; and as the question was only one of a temporary
failure of the supply of raw material. it was not to be ex-
' prided that the machinery for manufacture in all its branches
should be broken up. What should be done was to seals
the population of these districts tide over such a time as
their industry niay be paralysed. Everything should be
done to avoid bringing the smaller manufacturer of Lanca-
shire, who formed the bulk of that industry, to ruin and
he could take on himself to say that it would not be sale
to let parliament separate without the government taking
the responsibility of meeting the emergency upor. themselves.
The hon. gentleman continued :—lf the existing dis-
tress may end in six or twelve menthe, would it not
be advisable to give to parishes power to
borrow money upon the security of the rates, or
to get a rate in aid more promptly extended
to them than seems to be the idea of the right hon. gen-
tleman! (Hear, hear.) I am as much opposed to any-
thing of the kind in ordinary times as the right hon. gen-
tleman can be. I would not extend it to the agricultural
districts under any cow:savable circumstances—(Opposition
cheers)—but I would allow the people of these manufactur-
ing towns to adopt the course which they think most ad-
visable for themselves. I think the house ought to be pre-
pared to act mainly upon the advice of those whose inte-
rests are chietly at stake in this matter. The cotton dis-
tricta have never showu themselves deficieut in that saga-
city which is necessary for the management of their own
affairs ; and if it is their wish—aa I think it is—to have
power given them to borrow money, and to extend the
repayment of it over au or ten yearn, I think they ought
to be allowed to do so. (Hear, hear.) It cer-
tainly would be very unwise in the house
or the government to take upon them the responsibility of
interfering at such a crisis. lam aware that the powers to
which I have referred would require to be guarded by car-
tein securities, but every facility ought to be given to
parishes to meet such a winter as that which is coming—
such a winter as the most sagacious man cannot contem-
plate without dread. (Hear, hear.) I would suggest to
the government another provision. My hon. friend spoke
of the operatives as if they were paupers. For my owe part, I
will slaver call men "paupers " who have bees brought to
receive public assistance in consequence of this blockade of
the Southern States of America. (Loud cheers.) I invite
these men, so far as my voice can retch them, not to stint
their children, and pot to punish their wives and those de-
pendent upon them, by their honourable repugnant* to se•
cept pariah relief. Don't let them think that by
going to get the assistance to which they are en-
titled they are in any way humiliating themselves,
because no one has a right to my that they are at all de.
graded by so doing. (Loud cheers.) There is hardly one of
thesis men that would not far rather pay a poor ratethan re- '
arise help from ooe; and I would meet their ease another way.
Do what you can to prevent them from selling up their fur-
niture, and do not make them go through the sickening
humiliation of taking their place amongst &crowd of paupers
at the parish pay-table. I would suggest that the govern-
ment should make a provision to the effect that it shall be
competent to perishes to lend money to distressed ope-
ratives. There are many families who have been receiving
an income of 40s. or 50.. a week ; and an soon as
the tall chimney smokes once more they are
certain to earn those wages again. There are
thousands who would borrow money, to be repaid
as soon as they regain work, who could not be persuaded to
take it as • dole. (Cheer.) I am told by my hon. friends
near me that guardians may already lend money. 1 hardly
know how the law stands ; but if it is so, I hope it will be
more generally known and acted upon. I would advise my
right hon. friend (Mr. Villiers) likewise to offer every bet-
lity to deserving persons for obtaining relief. The labour
test was never intended for any but sturdy beggars ; but if
a mill is stopped you cannot want any better proof—sod it is
pedantry to ask for any better—that the hands are in seed
of relief, or that they are willing to work. (Hear, hear.)
I think it is fortunate that my right hon. friend happens to
beat the head of the Poor-law Board. He will not be re-
garded by the working classes as wanting in any feeling of
humanity or sympathy for them ; for his name will
always be associated in their minds with a measure which
has done more than any other to promote their prosperity
and their independence. (Cheers.)
Mr. LYGON thought if it was right that the agricultural
districts should bear, as they had borne in many cams and
for many years, the pressure of high rates, surely the manu-
facturing districts, when called upon by exceptional circtim.
@Mance to bear high rates, should not transfer the burden
to other portion* of the county. But if the present dis-
tress arose from exceptional circumstances, it was the
duty of the government to see that those excep-
tional circumataaces did not continue longer than
was necessary. (Hear, hear.) The supply of cotton
could only be °Wiped by the termination of the
Amortise war, and be treated that thole who ware ropes-