The Express.
London, England, 1863-07-17 00:00:00

TEE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, JULY 17, 1863.

proposed to place steasi-engines under government proter.
lion, what be wee asking government to do. Steam boiler.
were scattered all over the country, and consisted of thorn'
u
sed in manufactories, and fur locomotion and agricultural
purposes. Inspection by government was to a considerable
extent a substitatioo of government respoosibity for private
responsibility; and, unless they were enabled to make a real
and complete ioepectioe, it w better not to attempt it.
Colonel W. PATTEN asked whether the hon. member's
observations applied to the whole or part of the commis-
sioners' report. He alluded to that portion of the report
most interesting to Lancashire.
Mr. BRUCE said that his answer referred to the whole of
the report.

THE CASE OF THE COUNTESS DELLA dETA
LORD VERNON.

Mr. H. LEWIS wished to ask the Attorney-General
whether the attention of the Lord Chancellor had been called
to the case of the Countess Della Mete v. Lord Vernon, heard
before Vice-Chancellor Sir John Stuart, and to the language
and demeanour of the Vice-Chancellor to the couna2u
andl
others concerned in the case ; and if so, whether his lord-
ship intended to take any steps to prevent a repetition of
similar promsedins.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL void—ln the absenoe of my
learned friend the Attorney•Genend I have to answer the
question, and perhaps the house will pardon me if I make
a short statement of the circumstances to which the ques-
tion refers, and I hope the house will be satisfied with the
statement lam about to make. The case tune on in the
ordinary way before Vice-Chancellor Stuart, but before the
nature of the case was explained to the court it was stated
to his Honour by one of the learned counsel employed, that
some young ladies, infants and wards of the court, and par-
ties to the suit, were not only materially interested in a
pecuniary point of view, but that their reputation might be
seriously affected by a discussion in open court. It is the
invariable practice of the Court of Chancery to take all
possible precautions for the protection of infants under its
care, and it is right it should do so, with or without the
consent of parties, and the practice has been indisputably
established by the highest authorities. Here it was not
necessary that that should b exercised on the mere
authority of the Vice-Chancellor. Although one counsel
did object in the first butanes and praised his objection,
the learned counsel, with that good judgment and feeling
which I trust ordinarily distinguishes the counsel practising
in all our courts, eventually waived his opposition
upon the representations made to him. (Hear, hear.)
The Vice•Chaeoellor, therefore, in taking that course, acted
in accordance with the usual practice ; and I am authorised
by the Lord Chancellor to say that the course which was
taken meets with his most thorough approval, as in all re-
Tectworthy of the duty of the j
udge and the character of
lividual who bad to execute that duty. (Cheers.)
The hon. member's question further refers to some other
matters which subsequently occurred. The course then
taken by the Vice-Chancellor In the discharge of his duty
was very greatly misunderstood—them, howl—by some per-
sous concerned or not concerned in the cause.

Mr. MALINS—Not concerned. (Hear, hear.)
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL—My hon. and learned
Mend, who knows the circumstances, assures me that they
were not concerned in the cause, but at all events by
some persona out of doors. The result wee that there ap-
peared acme of the journals representations of these
circumstances involving the gravest imputations that could
be laid to the charge of a judge—namely, that out of respect
for the position of a nobleman be bad departed from the
ordinary and proper course, and had, in fact, contrary to his
duty, and for the reason I have stated, determined to bear
the cause in private, and to shield an influential, powerful,
and noble pennon from the possible exposure of eircum•
stances which he desired to have cooosaled. Of course the
house will understand that if any judge bad been capable of
so sating, he would have been unworthy of the position
which be held. (Hear, hear.) Now that charge is utterly
groundless—shear, hear)—and most calumnions—(cheers)—
and arose out dentin, misapprehension of the oircumstancea

That imputation could not but affect the mind of a man of
high honour, like Sir John Stuart. It was quite open and
competent for him if be had thought fit, to deal with it as •
rave contempt of court, and to have brought the parties
before him. His Honour, however, did not think proper to
do so ; and if in publicly adverting to those circumstances
he may have been betrayed into some warmth of language,
if the indignation which most have been excited in the
mind of any man of honour mme to his lips, and influenced
the tone of hie observation, I am quite sure it is not ne-
cessary for me to vindicate him in this home. (Cheers.)

of amicable Tektites with Brasil. The mediation offered
by the sing of Portugal for this object had been accepted
by her Majesty's government, and if anything could pre-
vent the =likable adjustment of the thlfereuces, :tad which
he most imniestl desired, it would be the 00ofell pursued
by Mr.
•

Sir H. CAIRNS did not think the Under• Secretary had a
right to read his hon. friend a lecture on the impropriety of
Introducing this subject to tke attention of the house. The
question now before them was entirely different from the
one under discussion the other evening. Then the
house was called on to consider the circnmstances
coon/etc.(' with the wreck of the Prince of Wales
now the question that had been raised was the rupture
which had occurred between the two governments. He hail
taken no part in the former debate because he thought that
the Brazilian government, though it had made considerable
professions of its desire to bring to justice the persons
guilty of the offence committed on the coast of Albardao,
had not shown that alacrity which we were entitled to
expect from it. (Hear, hear.) At the same time,
though her Majesty's government had ground for Immo,.
stance, he could not but think that the correspon-
dence had been conducted in a manlier that could
not fail to lead to irritation and alienation on
the part of the Brazilian government ; for no man
could be expected to submit to anything so disdain-
ful, rude, contemptuous, and even ungentlemanly, as the
tone of the English despatches. He did not think that her
Majesty's government would have ventured to have acted
in this way with a strong government—with France
or the United States, for instance. He did not wish
to see this country suffer an indignity even from a weak
country, but he looked with sorrow on her Majesty's go.
vernment taking such a course as they had done with a
weak government like that of Brazil. Though he was of
opinion that the Brazilian government were wrong with re-
gard to the Prince of Wales, he looked at every step taken
with respect to it by her Majesty's government with regret
and sorrow, and he considered that the coulee they had
taken with regard to the convention was unjustifiable.
The SOLICITOR•CENERAL replied to the several
grounds of complaint and accusation alleged against the
government by Mr. Fitzgerald, entering minutely into the
((Mails connected with each, and he then defended their
conduct in the matters referred to by Sir H. Cairns growing
out of the convention regarding the slave trade.

Mr. HENLEY observed that all these old slave came
which had been raked up in the discussion made it clear
that there had been ill-blood between the parties. He
blamed the comment& made by Mr. Lanrd and the Solicitor.
General upon the arbitration of the King of the Belgians in
the case of the officers of the Forte. He agreed with Sir FL
Cairns that we bad came of complaint against the Brazilian
government at the beOining ; but he thought the matter
had been badly Masted.
Mr. M. MILNES vindicated the conduct of Mr. Christie,
contending that the papers showed that he had mimed no
opportunity of coming to terms with the government of
Brasil

—Mr. BRAMLEY-MOORE maintained that the men of
the Prince of Wales's crew were not murdered on the onset
of Albardao ; that there was not a tittle of evidence of their
murder ; that it wee impossible foe them I. have reached
the shore, and that they were, in fact, drowned.
The motion of Mr. Fitzgerald was withdrawn.
THE LICENSING SYSTEM.

Mr. LAWSON, in moving that in the opinion of this
house the laws under which lionises were granted for the
sale of intoxicating liquors were eminently unsatisfactory,
and deficient in power to protect the public, and therefore
required immediate attention, said that the present system
of licensing was condemned by all the statesmen and
by the public opinion of the country, as well
as by several committees which had considered the subject.
It was condemned by the Chancellor of the Exchequer and
by the President of the Board of Trade, but in spite of all
these authorities the system continued, es it has for nearly
the last 30 years. There were three clause at reformers
who proposed remedies for the present system—the open
traders, who thought that the greater the facility for getting
drunk the less drunkenness would there be; exempt these
ha might include the gentlemen of the inland revenue, who
thought that the only busmen, for which a man was sent
into the world was to consume duty•paid liquor. (Laughter.)
Then there were the regulation party, who pro.
to raise the moral tone of the beer keeper.
FL°alghter.) The third party were those who proposed
measures for the gradual abolition of drunkenness.
During this session the Home Secretary said, in reply to a
question, that he wee waiting to redeem hie pledge last
year till he saw what the Liverpool Licensing Bill was going
to do, and when the question was repeated afterwards, he
stated that he could do nothing, as the Liverpool bill had
been thrown out. (Hear, hew.) After that bill had been
thrown out, a deputation from Liverpool waited upon the
Chancellor of the Exchequer. the Home Secretary, and the
President of the Poor-law Board, and they reported, as the
result of the interview, that a general election was near,
and, in their opinion, the government would not deal with
the question, in the fear that what they did might be used
for electioneering purposes against them. He asked the
house to adopt the resolution, with the view of strengthening
the hands of the government, and leading the way to the
remedy of the enormous evil of the present system.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that at
the present period of the night and of the union he did not
think there was any inducement to take the steps recom-
mended by the hon. gentleman, neither was he prepared to
accede to the justice of the hon. member's general descrip-
tion of the parties who were said to have agreed in denounc-
ing the licensing laws. A very great and -beneficial change
had takes place of late years in the consumption of intoxi-
eating liquors, which was due in his opinion to the improve-
ment of the lute, habits, and morals of the people. He
was quite sore that abstract resolutions were obi
hectionable and delusive, and he ventured to hope his
oe. friend would not be disposed to press his motion.
Mr. NEWDFA3ATE thought they were very much in-
debted to the ban, member for bringing this subject under
oonsideratiom There certainly was a general commence of
opinion that SOON amendment of the licensing system was
gaoled, and he was sorry to find the government hold out no
prospect of taking action in the matter.
Lord FERMOY could not support the resolution of his
hon. friend, because he thought it would fail in spreading
temperance throughout the country, although that was no
doubt the laudable desire of the hon. member. The
only way to render the working man temperate was to
make provision for his rational amusement. Stringent laws
would never have that effect.
Mr. W. E. POLLSTER said be should vote for the motion
although he did not agree in the special views of his boa.
friend. But there was a general opinion that the licensing
system was in an unsatisfactory state. There were three
kinds of licenses—the spirit house, the beer license, and
the wine license. The present licensing system had been
condemned by the country, but as nothing could be done
this session, he hoped his hon. friend would not prose his
motion to • division.

Sir P. O'BRIEN said the system of licensing wee not go-
nasally =mutable to the public. There was • general
opinion that the licensing system should be under the police
regulation, and should not be in the hands of the magistrates.
The house thee divided:
For the motion 2l
Against it B7-66
SUPPLY.
- -

The house west into committeeof supply pro forma, and
immediately resumed.
FORTIFICATIONS, lac., BILL.

The Fortifications (Prorioione for Expeeses) Bill wu read
• third time end pared.
UNION AID ACT CONTINUANCE BILL.

On the order for the consideration of the Union Rohe
Aid Act Continuance Bill,
Mr. CHILDERS moved the insertion of the following
clause i—" That so much of the sixty.second section of the
act of the fourth and fifth William IV., chapter 76, as pro-
vides that the aggregate amount of money expended in any
one year in and about the emigration of poor person having
settlements in any parish shall not exceed one-half the
average yearly poor rate raised in the parish durum the
three preceding years, shall be suspended during the coati•
nuance of %le ant."

Mr. VILLIERS opposed the clause, which wu supported
by Mr. Faxon.

'The clause, after some dimension, was witlidrews, and
the bill es amended was considered and agreed to. ,

IP4I COMPANIES CLAUSES BILL.
This bill gessed through committee. d
LT=RAILWAYS CLAUSES BILL.
II wood through committee.

marl WATERWORKS CLAUSES BILL.
an is bill also pared through committee.
TURNPIKE ACTS CONTMANCE,Ite., BILL.
This bill pared through committee.
POISONED GRAIN, Ac., PROHIBITION BILL.
The house then west into committee on the above bill.
Sir F. KELLY moved an amendment to exempt from the
operation of the bill " Barber's poisoned wheat for destroy-
ing mice and sparrows on the spot," on the ground that the
article would not kill any animals sought to be protected by
legislatioe, and that if the bill passed Mr. Barber would to
ruined.

Bi.PAIILL said that the poison wee most deadly, arat
Mr. Barber was a trader who deserved no consideration.
Yr. PAGET opposed the bill, and moved that the chair-
man report progress.
Mr. CLIVE objected to the proposed exemption, because
he did not believe that there was any one so ingenious as to
have invented a poison which would kill n sparrow and
would not injure a young partridge.

The committee divideaL -
For mortis' program 22
Apiast
The committee immediately divided again on Flit F.
FeUfe amendment,

For the ameolmeot 1
Aeinet it

The extraordinary diminution of Numbers wee reed by
some sifbteen members retiring from the boom) until after
the dinsion.

The clauses were then agreed to, and the house resumed
amid great cheering.
ANCHORS AND CHAIN CABLES BILL

The hoa►e wait into committee on this bill.
Mr. AYRTON moved that the chairman report progress,
aa it waa then half -peat 3 o'clock.
Mr. GIBBON deprecated the basica, of the home ben%
eondMited in this way. U • majority parental in passing

the classes at this hoer he should be free to take what
course he pleased on the third reading.
The committee divided—
For reporting progress 2O
ngainat
lir. GIBSON was asking explanation' of Mr. Laird, who
had cheep of the Mn, when it was noticed that not 40
members werepesent.
The Cwanni AN counted, and only 34 members being pre-
sent, reported the fact to the Speaker, who wanted only
seven, and the house adjourned at 22 minutes to 4 o'slock.

Mr. Walten', a pawnbroker, in Aldersgote-street She and
the man were detained and given into euetody. but din
charged the next day for want of the peaseoutor to identify
the property. Ou the prceecutcr returning to town the
prisoner was again apprehended, but her paramour, Gifford,
has eluded the vigilance of the officers. On searching the
lodgings occupied by both nearly 40/. worth of jewellery
stolen on the occasion in question, and now identified by the
prosecutor, was discovered.
The jury found the prisoner Guilty of receiving the pro-
perty knowing it to have been stolen, and sentence was
respited until the next session.
The oourt then adjourned to Monday, the 17th August
next.