The Express.
London, England, 1852-06-23 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS.—TUESDAT, Jt'NE 22.
Their lindshipt met at o'clock.
Petition* lutanist the Maynooth grant were presented by
the Earl of GALLOWAY, from the inhabitants of Wig-
town, and from the minister and ciders of the synod of
Galway; and by Lord COLVILLE, from the presbytery of
Forfar.
Lord REDESDALE presented a petition from the City
of London, praying for the suppression of betting-otlices.
THE BIRKENHEAD.
The Doke of WELLINGTON sal I that in conicquenee
of what peseit in the debate on the second reading of the
Itlilitu 1141, he considered it his duty to make inquiries re-
specting the state of discipline of a body of men who were
embarked fur the .pe in her Majesty's :ate ship Birken-
head, of w hieb be hail red elect! detailed report.. All sere
interested in awertainingthe truth on points of that deserip-
Den ; and under the circumstances he felt it his duty to
move that an humble address be presented to her Majesty,
for a copy of the order given on the Ifith December last to !
the general depots of regiments that sent men to the reel-
meats at the Cape of which such deno, ts formed part,
which were embarked in her Majesty's late ship liirken-
head; also cope of the order of ltith dune, r,quiring the
commanding officers of the several depots to rep et whether
the men embarked in the Birkenhead were instructed m
firing with ball cartridge; and also copies of the reports
received from the wee-al depots in eonsequenee.
CHANCERY REFORM.
Lor.l LYN DII l• said he hail a petition to present on
this subject from the Metropolitan Law Association, which
complain, el that the recommendation of the committee that
orders of course shouhl be abolished, with a ruin excep-
tions, to be pointed out by the Lord Chancellor, had not
been carried out in the lull wLieh was awaiting their lord-
ships decision. The poitioners also prayed fur the aboli-
tion of the Aceountant•Oeneral's ottim, and that the accu-
mulate I fee-fund 'tumid be applied to the relief of suitors
en Cbane, ry.
the LORD CHANCELLOR said he could not captain
why the ttcammimilation with regard to motions of course
had not been carriedout. Ile had nothing whitener to do
with the preparation of the I ill. It w.s introduced into
the House of thermions before the present gore. nment came
into power, anal hail come up from that house in its present
state. It was, however, a bill which contained valuable
provision.. and he had no choice between either letting the
bill drop or iwl.t:.tiont it si.6 it stood. On the whole he
thought it best to leave the bill in its present shape, leaving
far the future Cie ...erection of errors and defects. As re-
garded the fee fund, all he could say wAt, that in the recess
he would see whether there was a stispit3 in hand which
mould be applied to the relief of suitors.
Lord LTNI/111:11uT said he was very happy tubes, the
latter part of Ins noble frand's explanation The accumu-
lated for fund now amounted to 201it.1140.

to mere municipalities. But the most important point of
the bill was that which deprived the grown of • veto on
the acts of the colonial legislature. This was a most im-
portant matter. He thought the crown ought to pomades
the power of a veto for the benefit of the colony itself.
From the time of Charles 11. the clown possessed the power
of disallowing the so acts, and for this reason, that the ablest
governors might commit mistakes. The acts of the colonial
legislature might aff..et other interests besides those of the ins-
mediate colony itself. If they attempted to define the questions
in which the crown should or should not possess the power
of disallowance, it seemed to him that it would lead to a
conflict of jurisdiction, whereas if the crown al ways mo-
w-sant the power, and used it with disi retion, it would not
be felt as a practical grievance. He said that it would
lead to a conflict of jurisdiction, and such a
conflict frequently took place in the United States.
In the United States such conflicts were speedily settled by
I the intervention of the supreme court, but they hail nu
I analogous tribunal for settling conflicts in this country.
lth
But, even if they bad, they were at such a dia-
tonic from the colonies that it would not work. It was
said that great ineonei nienee arose from the delay. But
e never could find ails eel mist, and lie spoke to several,
! who could tell ham where any inconvenience originntell
I from sending the acts fur approval or disapproval here ; be-
cause, though sent here, they became operative in the co-
luny the moment they received the assent of the Got enior.
He thought it was a great mistake in the bill to make the
superia'encLaa elective, because the superintendent was an
executive officer, corresponding in some degree to the sheriff
lin this country, and it was certainly the theory
of the British constitution that all executive
power should issue train the crown. (Hear, hear.)
' Why these officers should be irremovable by the governor,
was beyond his power to conceive. It was only by means of
that power that the governor was enabled to maintain his
' own authority. That power being destroyed, the whole
le italative mud other authority would be thrown unchecked
I into the hands of the iiihabitents. lie objected to the con-
stitution of the logislative council. It was quite an anomaly
[ in colonial government to have a legislative council isi
Isolated for life, until the constitution of Canada was esta-
blished in 1791. Till then the members of the legislative
council had only held office during pleasure. It was ridi-
culous to talk of those councils as resembling the House of
Lords in this country—a body which art could no more
create than it could create an oak tree, and which had nu
parallel in any country in the world. This had been
attempted by Mr. l'itt in Canada, but the nature of
things had proved too strong for him ; the act hail
remained a dead letter ; and the legislative conned
had become • body of nominees. It had been
regarded by the whole people of both Upp r nod Loner
Canada as the great obstacle to good government, and
nothing more contributed to bring about that unhappy
state of things which had led to the insurrection. since
the union of the provinces this system of constituting legis-
lative cou:,cils had not worked satisfactorily. They did not
po-sers that weight and authority, that command over
public opinion, which they ought to enjoy ; and in more
than one colony it had been necessary to alter their temper
by virtually swamping them. In such a colony as New
Zealand there e ea not a betty of persons capable of ester
thing the functions of a legislative council nominated by
the crown for life, as was originally proposed by this bill.
Thie had been modified by taking away the limitation to
the number of 1.1, but that introduced the other evil of
keying recourse to new creations. Here the noble earl
complained of the inattention of Lord Derby, who was fa-
miliarly chatting on the woolsack with Lord Iledeselale.
The Eal of DEItBY-1 beg the able earl's pardon. I
have heard every word he said for the last hour and three
quarters. (Laughter.)
Earl GREY said hie object in stating his views at such
length was to prevent the necessity of going over the same
ground when the bill was in committee, as ho did not hope
to be able to effect any modification in its provisions, but
was anxious to caritas his views on a matter of so much
importance. As to the legislative council, he thought if
they were to have nominees, it would be better for them
to sit separately, than in the same house with the elected
members. The best effect had been produced in Australia
by retaining the power in the hands of government, of
making additions to the nominees ' • in New South Wales, a
nominated member of the council had been chosen presi-
dent. Ile would next advert to the change which the bill
made in the appropriation of the land fund. As a p I
rule, he thought it desirable that parliansent should retain
the power of fixing general regulations for the disposal of
laud. It was said there had been a monopoly in this re-
spect ; but noble lords forgot that in Canada, mot other
colonies, the local legislatures had lung had the
power of disposing of their waste lands. in New
Zealand there were strong reasons why the regulating
power should be exercised by the colonial legislature. The
qUe4,iotl was so complicated by the relations of the New
Zealand Company with the colony, that it could only be
properly dealt with by a local authority ; and ter that rea-
son he thought it would be preferable to vest the power in
the provincial legislatures rather than in the general as-
sembly. The provincial legislature of Canterbury was to
have this power ; and if it were denied to the other pro-
vinces, it would lead to very great discontent. This was
obviously an anomaly in the bill. He also objected to the
general assembly having the appropriation of the proceeds
of the land sold ; this power ought to be vested in the local
legislatures. The proceeds of land ought to be applied in
the same way as rates would be, fur the benefit of the ac-
tual occupiers. He had made this suggestion to the Gover-
nor of New Zealand, who approved the proposal. This bill
[ adopted the opposite principle: instead of localising as
much as possible the disposal of the proceeds, it was given
to the central legislature. 'This would inevitably lead to
mach abuse, and to much jealousy and altercation, amongst
the several provinces. The same thing had occurred in
South Australia, where the governor proposed an expeueli-
bare on the formation of certain roads which would have
proved highly advantageous to the colony; but the project
was neutralised by the narrowest jealousy on the part of
the inhabitants of Adelaide. In conclusion, he must ex-
' press his belief that this was • most important crisis in our
colonial empire, and that much depended on the course now
pursued. A different policy must be punned with grown-
up communities to that which was adopted in their infancy;
but be did cot think that that was to be done by giving up
goy of the constitutional powers possessed by the mown,
MA by the judicious and careful exercise of those powers.
lush a system of self-government, judiciously worked,
enabled the colonists to enjoy all the benefits of that form
of government. In proof of this he would refer to the
state of our American colonies, their large and contented
population, and the prosperity which they enjoyed.
It was to him a source of pride to leave those
Important dependenein in their present state. They
were in a very different condition in 1818, prior
to which period the system of constitutional govern-
ment had not been fully brought into operation is
any of those colonies. In Canada, the most important,
there was a division of the two races, and even that distin-
guished governor, Lord Metcalfe, expensed the greatest
doubt ano apprehension as to the working of the
le New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and the other eu=
the systc m hail been brought into most harmonious opera-
tion. Despite the recent commercial changes, which
were at first ill understood by the colonists them-
selves, and notwithstanding the discontent excited
against them on this side the water, we had
now the spectacle, in Canada, of a united people.
The French and English inhabitants were united, and all
were animated by the most ardent feelings of loyalty. 'The
cry of annexation, which some years ago bad s eat et
the discontent then prevailing, had absolutely • t
and Cans da was now making a far more rapid regress ha
wealth, population, and all the element' of gradates than
any of the neighbouring states. The system pursued is
that colony might fairly challenge compartson with, say, it
was infinitely more favourable than that of any of the sur-
rounding states. to real freedom, to happiness, and social I
advancement. On this point he would beg to refer their
lordships to a work which had lately been published by a friend
of his, Mr. Tremenheere. Some years ago, before commercial
distress had fallen upon the country, Canadian bonds could
not be disposed of in England except at a large discount,
ibat now those same bonds were selling at It per cent.
pemium. (Hear, hear.) Let him remind those noble lords
and those honourable gentlemen who were most ardent ad-
vocates of colonial reform, that all their improvements had
been effected without interference with that authority of
the crown which they considered to be so objectionable and
oppressive. It followed, therefore, that in effecting the ob-
jects which these gentlemen had in view, it was not ne-
mesery to alter the system which had been fur 200 years in
ken. All that was requisite was to exercise with judgment
lad discretion that authority which he believed the perma-
sent safety of the empire required them to maintain.
(Hear, bear.) In conclusion, he begged to say that he
should not offer any opposition to the bill, which be thought
would prove, on the whole, a beneficial measure.
After a few words from Lord Lerrerroo and the Duke
of NISWCASTLE in explanation,
The bill was read a second time without • division.
The Passenger' Act Amendment Bill, the Pharmacy
Bill, and the County Rates Bill, were read a second time, the
last bring referred to a select committee.
The Sank Islands (tads Bill, the Commons' Inclosure
Acts Extension Bill, the Appointment of Overseers Bill,
and the llereditary Casual R in the Colonies Bill,
were passed through committee.
The I'onr Law Commission Continuance (Ireland) Bill
was read • third time, and passed.
Their lordships then adjourned at twenty-five minutes to
: eleven.
bill

NEW ZEALAND BILL.
The Earl of DESART said he rose to move the second
reading of one of those immisures which her Majesty's,
..,ivernment had h It it their duty to introduce in that some-
what anomalous union of parliament, and he thought
• there were few bills of greater importance than that to
which he had then the honour ...lathing their lordships op.
probation and consent. It concerned the destinies of a
large and rising colony of their fellow-citiuns, and he was
sure it would meet with Li • oppe-ition hut what was dictated
by an h meet desire to promo: the interest bath of that
colony and of the neither country. Perhaps it was desi-
rable that lie elimild vise a foie( sketch of the present posi-
tion of New Zealand. The number of European inhabi-
tants was not large. 'lhero were 2ii,000 Europeans scat-
tered over nine settlements, of millet the largest COD-
Lined 9,000 inhatatiente, leaving but 17,000 for the
eight other settlements. These settlements were situated
in a territory extending thOl mike from north to south ;
they were divided from each other by large tracts of coun-
try, through winch there was scarcely any communication,
seep on norsebacie. lie hoped that they would not lose
sight of the advantage which would aurae from an incor-
poration of the aborigines with the European settlers. The
aborigines act New Zealand seemed ambitious of obtaining
a higher rank in civilisation. As a proof of that, he might
mention that oue of the chiefs held funded property under
our security to the iimuunt of faced., and another of them
held 3001. It was the opinion of Sir lieorge Grey that un-
less some unforeseen event occurred, a geeeial fusion would
take place between the native tribes and the settlers. There
were to be six provincial councils, the Sanctions of which
were 'Wetly dchned. It was intended at hut that the
superintendent should he nominated by. the crown, but it
was afterwards determined that it was better be
should he an elected officer, returnable by the same
machinery which returned the provincial councils.
there was ale a to be a central legislaeve council and a
users! assembly. The legislative council was to be nomi-
nated for tile, and was to consist of not less than ten mem.
ben. 'I he general as.emhly was to be 'lusted for five
veers, and by the same machinery as the legislative council.
The waste lands were to be placed under the control of the
local legislature, the crown reserving to itself the manage-
ment of ell transactions between the natives and the set-
tlers. Ile wail aware that the colonists sometimes exhibited
unressooeble anxiety to have the n..nagement of the
waste lands placed in their own banes. lie would be the
loot person to yield to ouch on unreasonable desire,
because be thought such a pewee placed in the
hands of an infant colony could only prove disastrous
to themselves ; but there was a period iu the life of a colony
when restrictions of this kind must be removed, and New
Zealand, hr thought, hail now arrived at such a point. He
trusted he woo not over sanguine in e xperieg to see a future
prospect of wealth end civilisation opening for the colonists
under this bill. He hoped that under this measure they
would help to tulfil the high mission which belonged to
them, of propagating civilisation throughout those distant
regions which it plea-,d providence t, place under their
eharge—to propagate the blessings of Christianity and suck
Messier as Christianity alone could best oir. (Cheers.)
Lord LYT reuros said he must t %press his acknow-
ledgments, as one interested in the pre ;parity Of the Au-
ualian colonies, to her Majesty's government for the good
will which induced them to introduce this bill, and the per-
severance by which, under considerable difficulties, they bed
brought it to to preo:nt stage. lie re,:o.ced that the bill
was now placed beyond the reach of serious danger. He
believed that the measure, though net without defects,
which he would presently point out, w „ old be most accept•
able to the colonists, and that it we• the largest instal-
ment of
the
which had been made to any colony
within the last 100 years. 1 hie measure was defee•
rive, if compared with the constitutions which were
given to their early North American colonies. With
respect to the appointment of officers, he did not
see that the ancient system was more perfect than
the present one, for he thought that it would be ea math
for the advantage of the colonists to have the appoiaissent
of the governor placed in the hands of the crown, as if he
were elected. At the same time, he seer no objection to
the local governors being elected on the spot. The old
colonists had the right of self-defence end the duty of self-
eupport. The eforeqUenee was, that they were ready to
lace dangers. and to meet savages far more ferocious and
dangerous than those of New Zealand, or the Cape. They did
not, like some of the colonists of the Cape,• send a petition
stating that they were people of an unwerlike nature, end
incapable of defendiog themselves, and supplicating assist-
ance. They were, on the contrary, men of a bold and 'loo-
nies stamp, and nothing about them perhaps was more re-
markable than their ineradicable and unextinguishable ad-
herence and fidelity to the crown of England till the most
arbitrary conduct had been practised towards them by Mr.
llrenville and Lord North. He believed they were now
returning to a revival of the good old system, and
if they were to retain their colonies, as he hoped they would,
they might restore that system in its ei,untial features. He
would now make a few observations on the provisions of the
bill before the house, which might be separated into two
great diviiiions, the first having reference to the general go-
vernment of New Zealand, and the second to the mei.
meal governments which the present administration wisely
adopted. Ile thought that there was more wisdom dis-
played with regard to the latter than the former division.
Ito had already referred to, and approved of, the control
which was given to the colonists int r the waste lands. Next,
with regard to the constitution of the legislature, he was
glad that the bill got rid of the mischievous intermixture of
the elected and nominated members in one chamber. Then as
to the six-fold division into provinces, he thought the most
important alteration on the modern system had been intro
iluesel. The eovernment nail nrought ins much ballet bill
than they intended. (Laughter.) The Underfeuretary
for the Colonies said he looked on these provinces as
little municipalities; on the other head he con-
found in regarding them as so many cols:miss. There
was only one provision in the bill which he feared would
not work well; 'there was not a sufficient limitation of
power between the general assembly nod the local chain-
lore, hut he hoped this would not interiere with the her
monious action of the whole. Had he thought it possible
to carry any amendment in this session, he would have
proposed me; as it was, he should rive the hill hie support.
Lord WODEHOUSE apprehended that the bill was
open to many theoretical objections, but thought that its
defects might be remedied by the large powers of adjust
mint, for which an allowance hail been made.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE declined to follow Lord
Lyttelton into a discussion on the princir.es of colonisation,
hut confined himself to the bill before tip, house, which he
was disposed to approve as conferring a larger amount of
or colonial freedom than had been conceded by any similar
measure. There were, however, some parts of the bill
which he could not regard with a favourable eye, and I HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TUFADAT, JUNE 22.
especially that clause which reealated the constitution The S took the chair at 12 o'clock.
of the 1 pper Chamber. The government ought to have
abandoned the principle of nominee appointments to the PRIVATE BUSINESS.
Upper House, and he thought that in retaining it they were The Lords' Amendments to the following bills were con-
eidered arid agreed to:—Clauesen's Patent Flax Company ;
dropping the substance of a realty conservative farm of
Fro me, Yeovil, and Weymouth Hallway (No. 1) el at
government to grasp at a shadow. Tn say that there was
Railway (No. 1) ; Liskeard Roa ; Manchester,
any resemblance between a norsiner Cpper Chamber of the ! Iv. eitern..
sh Meld. and Linoohishire Railway (No. 2); Stockton and
kind proposed and their lordships' house was simply ridicu•
lout, and the more the scheme was practically considered, Hartlel and Climate Railway and Hartlepool West
the mere shadowy and unreal would it he toond. He also I Harbour
.. and Dock Com 'es ;
DULA RIAD A Tamp Tnie eno Purism—Earl of
objected most strongly to the conternriatcd arrangement • . .
Portarlinittnn s Estate ; Ehnen' Estate; Fleming's Estate;
with the New Zealand Company, end trusted that this . . • . ,e,
portion of the bill would not be proceeded with. Howell's t. Dailey ;,w opera harbour iraprosement tzeo.i) ;
Earl GREY vindicated the New Zealand Company, but • Wilford Harbour Improvement (No. 'a.); Bills.
admitted the necessity of inquiry, which he hoped would be PUBLIC BUSINESS.
undertaken nest session. The noble earl havine eontended PETITIONS PRESENTED.
at some length that the company, having been thwarted by Breit NO-OrrleMe—The Sheriffs of the City of London
the local authorities in the colony, and :by the government appeared at the bar, and presented a petition Pram the
at home, were entitled to compeasation, and that the act of Lord Mayor. Aldermen, and Common Council of the City
11117. by mentioning " interest" in connexion with of London, praying for the interference of the house to sup-
capital, contemplated repayment of interest as well press hetting.of ices.
as capital sunk, to be derived from the prodnee of INerri.TION or NVINEHIPIA.—By Sir W. VERNER,
land sales, came to the bill itself. And, Arse, from a place in Down, and another from a place in Antrim ;
with regard to the important change made in the mastitis- , Mr. OROOAN , from a place in the county of 1/own ;
tins of the provincial councils, he quite agreed in the ge- Sir J. DUKE, from ladies resident in North Yarmouth and
winul view expressed by the noble lord the Under Secretary ! Chatteris ; in favour of.
of State. la the first instate,, these provincial councils would l Dliteeta Beci..—By Mr. HUME, from the methodist
engrain very liege powers, and would not at first be reeluced congregation of Newbury, against.