The Express.
London, England, 1863-04-21 00:00:00

COUNTY POLICK

Mr. KKtiEWICH wished to ask the Secretary to the
Treneury whether the sum voted to) parliament for the
polio, force in counties and boroughs was calculated on the
net sap-editors, after deducting the amount of the super
animation fund, rent, fines, and stoppages ; and, if so, for
what reason the government objects to repay one-fourth of
the whole amount expended for the pay end clothing.
Mr. PEEL said the government liability under the act of
parliament was limited to one.foarth of the cost end pay of
the clothing of the police force, which they considered wan
the amount of the real pay sod not anything which might
be merely nominal pay. When, therefore, they had found
allowances for travelling expenses and the rental of houses
bad been converted into pay and made pert of the pay, in
that case they separated that portion in calculating the
sum upon which their cootiihntion was doe. In the same
way with regard to the deductions for the superior nation
fund end for fines, se those deductions were compulsory,
the government did not think they would be justified in
calling these deductions pay.

PRISON MINISTERS BILL.
Sir O. GREY, on rising to move the second reeding of
this bill, rid he thought that the law, as it was
carried oat in the mae of military permeate confined
is military prisons, should be extruded to ordinary
cobnisals. (Hear, hear.) Owing to various causes there
had been of late years a large increase in the number of
Roman catholic prisoners in the priors of Embed and
Scotland, but that increase was mainly confined to certain
localities ; such, for instance, as Leedom, Liverpool, Man-
chester, and Glasgow. In Liverpool, as the return to
which he had referred showed, there were a'. that time 888
prisoners, of whom 485 were Roman catholic', and they
were subject to the general law as it sow stood. There
were exceptions only where the visi.ing justices had extended
the "special request clause," and allowed every prisoner
to be attended by ministers of their owe persuasion—the
musty mot of Stafford—and the gaol of a borough. He
did sot mention the conduct of the justices in these cases
ameregiugly, on the contrary, he rejoiced that they had so
aired ; but in all other cases the junior considered them-
selves bound by the lette• es well as the aping of the law,
end permitted no such misistrationa except where specially
requested. How did the special request cruse an? He
would take Liverpool as an isstaem There were there
485 Roman catholic pi isomers, and a them the number
making special remains to be visited by a Roman catholic
priest was but 313. (Hear,:;) He was aware that
some of his hon. (deeds that the infrequency of
these requests was evidence a probrasce for protestant
teething, and they west as to allege that it would he an
interference with religious freedom to permit the iodised-
iniztate visits of a Roman catholic pried. He most say,
I however, that be believed the infrequency of the
arose not from preference to oneweed at mother, licirrirg
m
aversion and indifference to any religions instruc-
tion. (Hear, hear.) Is Ireland, which was mainly a
Roman catholic country, the law made ample eversion for
the religious instruction of prisoners. It provided for each pri-
son a protestant chaplain of the established church, although
is some of the gaols there was not a single protestant pri-
soner. With respect to presbytee lane, there was also pro-
vision made whenever there happened to be a presbyter :au
whoopee In everty
driore I. Imbed, empty and borough,
there was also a R4:11011 catholic pried to minister to
the spiritual wen of the Roman catholic prisoners, He
did not sat the hones to go that length in this country, be-
cause, as he bad shown, it was only in a few pa:theta/ loca-
lities that Roman catholic primmer, formed a large portion
of the criminal population. He therefore proposed only to
sake provers for regulariT paid Roma COO& chaplains
I. such pieces as the Menem justices be Wand and the
load authorities in Scotland might wander they
was required, and subject to such regulations as
they might ma fit to establish. It was left to their
Aborigine, and they had lower to remove as well as to gm-
=sib ehaPiallm In pieces where the number of
catholic primmer, was not brie, a prevision oonld be
asmiesfisilar to that which was made in tits cows of military
prisms. 'lir sensed clams ppreoovidd that lists should be
made Witting the religious dssomisatlae of sash primmer,
sad these lista should be kept open for the reposiiee of the
chaplains, so that there might be no exam for interferieg
with the duty of the protestant ampler". The rat dame
modified that part of the existing law which imposed
nem protestant chaplains the duty of erring all
=era and of prescribing the lessees to be
and the books to be used In religious inetructioo.
H. thought it right to submit the bill to tits boom, and
besseuestly hoped that the motion which be bad made, that
tics bill be sow mad • second time, would be acceded to,
Mr. O. LANGTON rem to move an enwedineet, that the
bill be read a second tire that day six months, and in doing
so also expressed a hope that the dimersion would be con-
ducted in a spirit of charity. It might be said that this was
a permissive bill, bet he (Mr. La e) had so predilection
for inch bills. (Hear, hear.) It was, in fad, an attempt to
insert the narrow end of the wedge in order to gain tome
further admires, at • hature this.. (Hear, hear.) There
could be no doubt that the operation of this bill would involve
the visiting justices in sidles, controversies with the rate-
mem and with Boma esthatie chaplains. His objection
to the bill rested, however in far higher grounds.
Tee right hon be rid the bat would not interfere
with the position of the esithlithed church ; but it should
be bores in mind that this was the dart time since the Re-
formation that payment of Roman catholic priests would be
nude out of public feuds by the authority of parlianiest.
Osimel BARTTELOT seconded the amendment.
Mr. HENLEY did Dot gee why Roman catholic
disidd be deprived di the religious toechiss ttrB
own
=Seepage he were to take the grossest perorates* in
use and glint him up is prison, bow would be tike to be
Moiled by • Roman catholic priest' The best doctrine to
fellow was to do unto others es they would wish to be done
by. Tbat w a role that never failed, sad cos that prim-
ate'e he should vote for this memoir. He would dune the
Romeo catholic party not to press for too much. and he
would ask the great protested party sot to make the
settlement of the question too difficult to be overcome. In
committee they might easily mitts the details, and no
doubt ell the grievances at present complained of would be
remedied. (Heardiser.)
Yr. SELWYN mid after hearing the speeches on both
aides be wee of opiates that the bill was not required. The
bill wee opposed to the rights and primaries of the eats-
bibbed church and to the rights at lolly dual conseisam.
There was no substantial grtemites to °sceptre of. It was
said that it would be only fair that persons should be ap-
pointed to look after the prisoners of their own religion,
but there was so precedent for loch a bill as the present
(beer. hear)—ad rather than agree to each an entirely
sew principle it would be much hatter to leave thing,
as they stood. He thought the registration of
emery prisoner's religion would be a bed test,
harmany priories might not be willing to state what
It was. Thee as to the appointment of the chaplains -in
vim was it to be anted Why in the visiting jostioee.
Ur G. GRZY—No ; in the jostler Is quarter serious.
Mr. SELWYN—That altered hie objection only in degree
said sot in airtime. It would be gives to person who
weld be anxious not to have the exercise of soy such
"lOW Besides, if the visiting justices as thorns is quarter
session should have the power of making or altering the
law, sheen would he a differieut law is every county
is the country. If the house smatiosed this meo-
w*
Were would be introduced into the discussions at
sessions religions questions, red which would
tilsand objectionable. The real o sat of the bill was to
maids Roars Whelks to that which they had
boss so anxioes to obenia—a sides reciognised by the state,
and which they did not new enjoy.
Lord E. HOWARD rid that Roman catholic primmer
did complain of the grievances under which they suffered
is the primes of Ohl egustry, bet sot so much as they might
do, feriae perhaps tin thee would meet with no redrew.
Be thought the Ma. aced Imened member for libier's Coady
(Hr. Pope Fiennery) and the right bee baronet deserved
the thanks of the Roman catholic* for having brought is the
measure, and in their name he tendered then. thanks He
differed from hoe. members in thinking that this was an
ecclesiastical measure, for in his opinion it was more of a
police messure—(hear, bearl—eed consequently the right
ton. baronet, as the minister of police and justice, bad
taken the question into his hands, and he (Lord E. Howard)
hoped he would bring it to a happy conclusion. (Hear.)
Mr. P. WYNDHAM considered that the bill was object-
tionabie became it involved in principle the eatablisheneet
of two religiose
Mr. LYSLZY drew attention to the third wire of the
bill, which seemed to give the comietrates the power of
venerating ROOMS catholic priest' to attend in the prisons
of their district, and to give remuneration for the service.
But looking to the following pert of tits section, they would
have the power of introducing themselves into the gaols
without the will or knowledge of the magistrates.
Colonel W. PATTEN oche believed be represented that
county iu England which contained most Roman catholic,
and he was anxious to de away with en erroneous im•
promise which seemed to exist in the mind of his hon.
friend the member for Garekridge univernty that no
grievance was complained of. For years past be bed himself
moored taller of the hardshipto which Roman
catholic wars subject. (Hear, base) He believed
that these reprogeneatime required the serious
lam
of the hems The Ronne cathethe primness ems less
treaded to thee any ether easesof the onernesity girt.
birly placed. He Laid vote for the mooed reading of the
bill with • view to get the pi redressed. Be aleadd
be satisfied If the bin 6EOIO pertiamed repecilim
is pend request ONUS giving power to the misilliftsi4o
to admit Roam tathobs pristla to the polo under orb
restrictions as they might disk it to import. Ho was sot
blind le the iscoavattros of catiThi out the 64 clans. of the bill, but be woad deal with that wits they west late
totassittos.

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