The Press.
London, England, 1853-06-18 00:00:00

THE PRESS.

I ili

l•aw. Commis+r►►xl:a : Was that all?
Nlr. HArrEn : It eats lint exa►•tly all.

()HEE l'oNtAlissioNEß : What w•e•re these t•►►urlitiuus

i uttditiuu "

'Fa : I 1 Was !ay tillty Ito (ii to).

,mm issioN it : Whitt ►li►l l.ur►l .I.4.htt ,•iiy

'3 ?id

'dill

ADJOURNED MEETING OF THE SPECIAL COMMISSION
UNDER THE NEW ACT TO INQUIRE INTO THE
PRACTICES BY WHICH HER MAJESTY'S MINISTERS
OBTAINED THEIR PRESENT SEATS.
The Commissioners reassembled yesterday to take the evidence
ef the Right Hon. W. Goommorau H.tvrEß, M.P., Secretary of the
Treasury. It had been arranged to examine the Right Hon.
4 icntleman last week, but he had been nttaeked by a nervous com-
plaint. attended by an unusual los:4 of memory. and the inquiry, there-
14e, had been postponed. The Right Hon. Gentleman appeared,
indeed. very inueli indisposed, and in an almost prostrate condition.
Ire leant upon the arm of Captain BERNAL. OSBORNE and Mr. GRENVILLE
Briiim.Ev. To the preliminary inquiries of the Chief Commissioner
he replied, that he was Secretary of the Treasury ; not the Conserva-
tive. but the Liberal, Secretary of the Treasury ; that he was not a
batter ; and that hr was a Privy Councillor, though he believed he was
about as tit to be one as the other.

CHIEF CoNIMISsioNEn : I understand, previ►►usly to the division which
terminated the Ministry of Lord Derby, you were instructed
by Lord .lobo Russell lind his friends to ascertain what were the
prospeets of obtaining the support of the various sections for
the overthrow of the Goverument?
NI r. II AYTER : I hire no distinct recollection of anything that (weaned
before the formation of Lord Aberdeen's Government ; but I
will not take upon myself to say that what you assert is sub-
stantially incorrect.

irt- Commtssioxun : Will you deny that you were in commmticati4Pu
with SOM. Of till' leading Irish members of the Roman
Catlinlie party?
Mr. II AYTER : I had many loose moven:Minns" at that time with
several members of the House of Commons.
coml. CommoonosEn : I)id you approach Mr. O'Connell, and after
,ome preliminaries inquire how he and his friends would vote
on the impending division on Mr. Di:inteli's budget?
Mr. HArrEn : I did make sonic approaches of that character.
CHIEF COll NI IMION • I)id Mr. O'Connell reply, that the conduct of
himself and his friends in that partirular would depend upon
their receiving an assurance from the Whigs that they would
not impose an income tax on Ireland ?
Mr. litvrca : He replied to that effect.
CommissiosEtt : And what did you rejloitt ?
HAYTER referred him to a previous deelaration by Sir C.
Wood, when Chancellor of the Exchequer, that the I invent-
ment of Lord John Russell disapproved of the extension of
the income tax to Ireland. and I stated that I was personally
aware that that opinion was still entortained by the members
of the late Administration.

Oulu. CommissioNca : Now, sir, you lamsl speak out. The ('mminissioners desire to know whether Nlr. O'Connell was satisfied
by this mere assurance, or whether he made distinct con-

►liti►ni. of i which the support ►►t' himself mid his Neill Oil

NVtOtlll Lr ill'eOrtled to till' Whig OppO :it ion?
: I endeavoured to dissuade hi 111 from insisting on con-
ditions, lint he did. nevertheless, nutty them.
Cum' CommisstoN EH : That is to say, however willing to assist you.
Mr. O'Connell mould not induce his friends to co-operate with
him without distinct conditions ?
Mr. II ArrEn : It would seem so.

HArrytt : The first was. that hr should be emiroacred at at
mooting ot the Irish sectitat to %tat..• that ht. was authorised
11% too to assure theta that. ill the Nit of the I)VelihrOW
Li .111 Derby's t itiVel'lllilellt. and the tormatiout of a I.iberal
%dittinktration. the income tax sitotild not he extended to
Ireland : and secondly. that Lord .101111 Russell or Sir t'llarlea
Aluald make It litrinal and tli•llnrt in the
r 'arse tof the progressing debate that they disapproved of such
fAteiisif in and wtaild never sanction if..
t'lll 'oNlNll%slo \ Eft : yon otaisalt Lord .lulus ltiistsell nit these

: Ile shrugged his shoulders and smiled. and asked me
lether I thought it wnuld In. a untoi hedge against the Dur-
al letter?

ommtssiosi:n: .Ind what did you say"
A:rt : I said I thought it would have: that tendency
.: and
that lie could end his speech by ~.onts,thing about relitiotts

SATURDAY,

liberty, and denounce the Stockport riots, it would have a
very good effect.
CHIEF COMMISSIONER: Did Lord John assent to the conditions ?
Mr. HAYTER : He said that I might see Sir Charles Wood, and that
Sir Charles Wood might say what he liked.
CHIEF COMMISSIONER: What then ?
Mr. HATTER: I made the necessary arrangements ; I complied with
both conditions of Mr. O'Connell; I authorised him to state
to his friends that, if Lord John Russell returned to power,
the income tax should not be extended to Ireland, and that
Sir Charles Wood, on the part of the late Government, should
make a declaration to that effect in the debate. On these terms
the Liberal Irish members unanimously agreed to vote against
the Government of ball Derby ; which a large portion of them
previously intended to support. Sir Charles Wood went
down to the House and made the promised speech. Lord
John Russell at the significant passage cheered him in a marked
manner: the Irish members were quite satisfied; they voted
against the Government, which without their so voting would
have had a large majority ; and Lord Derby resigned.
CHIEF COMMISSIONER : And when the new Government was formed I
believe the income tax was extended to Ireland ?
Mr. HAW ER : It was.
CHIEF CommissiosEtt: Did Lord John Russell offer any excuse fur

this " anomaly" ?
Mr. HAYTER : He said he had only engaged forhimself and Sir Charles
Wood, and that he could not undertake to bind Lord Aberdeen

and Mr. Gladstone.
ClilEl CommisstoNEn : Notwithstanding Lord Aberdeen is Prime
Minister, Lord John Russell is, I believe, Leader of the House

of Commons ?
Mr. HAYTER: He is.
CHIEF COMMISSIONER : And Sir Charles Wood is also a member of the

Cabinet?
Mr. HAYTER : That is so.
CHIEF CommtssiosEn : These, then. arc dm means by which one of
the sections was induced to vote against a government which
otherwise it would SCCIII they al►pmved?
Mr. HAYTER : 1 have placed the filets before the Honourable Com•

missioners.
Sir ItonEaT : Would the Right Honourable Gentleman the
Secretary of the Treasury have the extreme kindness to state
whether he be aware that persons professing the Roman Ca-
tholic religion are exempt from keeping faith with those whom
they are taught by their Church to look upon as heretics?
Mr. HAvtint : I am not aware of the fact, though [have heard of such
an opinion !
Sir ROBERT INGI.IS: Might not, then, a true Protestant, like the pre-
sent Leader of the House of Commons, be of opinion that
there are occasions when it may be his duty to God, his
Queen, and his countiy, to hold a similar tenet with regard
to his dealings with Idolators?
Mr. HATTER : 1 c,utnot take upon myself to answer that ; but if the
Commissioners wish it I will ask Lord John the question when
Igo down to the House—or perhaps the Honourable Baronet
will give notice and put it himself ?
Sir B. HALL: I beg to call the attention of the Right Honourable
Secretary to it paragraph which appeared in On Irish paper,
and which was generally reprinted in the metropolitan
journals, to the etreet that a very active member of the Irish
section was to be elevated to the peerage by the title of Lord
Blarney. Wits there any foundation for that statement?
Mr. HATTER : No; it was all blarney.

Sir 11. : lam glad to hear that. I beg to give notice that, if
any Irish member be elevated to the 'peerage in preference to a
member for a metropolitan district. I shall prefer articles of
impeachment against the Government.
Jhe CHIEF Commission:a now said that they would proceed to
examine the witness how, on this - great day of the sections," the Radical
ploy iu the House had been induced to vote fi► . the overthrow of the
late Government ; but Mr. HAvrEn. in a weak voice, begged that his
further examination might be postponed. Captain Bttxm. Osman:,
however, whispering very fiercely in his ear. gave the Right Honourable
Ociittemao at good shake, and then, saying -Who's afraid ?' announced
that the witness was prepared to proreed.l
Cum, CoNtmisstosEn : 1 it true that a large portion of the members
of the House of Commons, of Radical opinions. were un-
willing to assist in the overthrow of the late Government?
Mr. IlvvrEn : They entertained a prejudice of that kind.
CHIEF Commission:a : Did any promise on your part induce them to
forego it"
Mr. HAvrEn : They exacted. as a condition of their support, that a
large measure of Parliamentary Reform should be introduced
by the new Government.
Commission:a : And did you promise, and were you authorised
to promise, such a measure ?
Mr. HAYTI,* : 1 consulted those AVIIO Were elaalletellt to guide 1111(1
instruct me under such circumstances, and I certainly did on
their part enter into such am engagement.
CHIEF CommissioNEß : Has it been fulfilled?
Mr. HAYTER : It has not.
CHIEF COMINSIONF.R : Has any indignation been expressed by this
Section in consequence ?
Mr. IIAYTER : Shortly after the formation of the Government, the
declarations of Lord Aberdeen particularly on the subject
being considered very unsatisfactory. there was a meeting
held of members of extreme Liberal opinions, anti they came to

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