The Express.
London, England, 1863-07-25 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, SATURDAY EVENING, JULY 25, 1863.

' Met moment. To do lam would sot in his opinion be con-
sistent with that prestige and dignity of the country which
the uoble earl spoke of ; and to do more—to withdraw their
ambassador aa suggested by the noble earl, and break off
diplomatic relation' with Russia—would have been an inter-
vention of a me& more important bed, and mesh rarer to
led to than dmastroes results which he trotted might yet
be averted, than the mums pursued by her Idsiesty's go-
verameet. (Hear.)
Aftm• few words from the Marquis of CLAI(IICAIDZ in
reply,
The motion was withdrawn.

believed that hundreds signed them, not agalost their 0013.
mimics, but carelessly. In order to be a staunch member
of the church it wu not necessary to have implicit faith
in the Thirty-nioe Articles, some of which it was
very difficult le understated. A clergyman might be sound,
and both in spirit amid practice an useful member of the
church, without giving his ietellectual adhesion to diem.
He believed he was a good amid staunch churchman ; buts
helms, he considered that the system of tests was
injurious to the church, and that its abolition would
strengthen her.
Lord R. CECIL argued that it those opposed to the
church of England were allowed to govern the religious
teaching of the University of Oxford, they might if they
thought 6t never the conoexico between that university and
the church. Whatever might be the objects of thine who
made these propositions, he was convinced that they could
have but one end, and that was to destroy that connexion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it
IVY a matter which be thought well deserved ,
the consideration of the University of Oxford 1,
that they ought to give the advantages of the asininity as '
far as they could without danger to the seisiessacet of bet
own vital principle, and on the ground that ewes em ve•
vented the lay members of the church at Distend a system
of tests lams complex than that now in existence would he '
more agreeable both to the general law and to the spirit of
the church and the university.
Mr. LYGON said he did not see what advantage could
be gained by the proposed change. If persons who could
not subscribe to the articles were humiliated by
not being allowed to take the degree of master
of arts, the humiliation would still remain if
they were required to take it on becoming fellow'.
Mr. G. DUFF said that a most elaborate analysis of the
petition had been placed in his hand, and he found that its
106 signatures included the elite, the very blue blood of Ox-
ford University. Nobody would deny that since the memo-
rable secession year of 1845, the university was getting
more liberal every day, and at present it was known that
the fellows all dimapproved of teats.
---- - • •

Mr. NEWDEOATE rejoiced to think that government
did not propose any alteration in the system of the
University of Oxford, which was now the only
university left to the clergy of the church of England.
Mr. BUXTON serer(' with the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer that it would to much more gutifying if the proposal
for this change had come from the univraity itself rather
thee from that house. But it wee doubtful whether the
tui;versity bad power to take any step to reform itself ;
at any rate there wsa very little means of organising inch a
movement without essistance from the outside.

Greece was that the Greeks should not be exterminated
from the face of Europe, and the Poles were now in
exactly the situation to which that principle applied.
Ile commented in severe terms on the Russian despatch
in answer to the note of England, characterising It as cal-
culated to irritate 'cycle* who read it, while it rejected say
further negotiation with five of the powers parties to the
treaty of Vienna, while the Polish question was to be set-
tled by, the three powers who were the partitiooere of
Poland, and demanded that them should be no intervention
is that country. He eulogised the course taken by Austria
in the matter.
Mr. HENNESSY said the reply which the Russian go.
vernment h►d sent to the three powers was in truth an
insult to them, and he bed no doubt that she would receive
a fitting answer. She had asked Austria to join is another
holy &Malice, but Austria had refused. This was a critical
time in the history of Europe. Whatever steps the gayer's-
ment might take with regard to Poland, he trusted they
would act is cordial alliance with the Emperor of the
French. The people of that country bad perfect confidence
in the alliance between this oount7, France, and Austria,
in favour of Poland, sad would much rather depend upon
that alliance than upon diplomacy
Mr. BEAUMONT said the only subject of suspicion and
distrust coenected with the guation was that France never
undertook a war without objects of aggrandisemeot. He
referred to the alliance between this country and Austria
with respect to Poland, and he believed that the whole of
Germany would follow Austria in the course which she had
taken. He would much rather look to Austria than to
Fromm to solve this question. Austria must very shortly
take a decided attitude, and when she did that Germany
would approve of her policy, and a speedy solution of the
question might be hoped for. He trusted the house would
receive such an assurance from the noble lord at the head of
the government, that it might continue to Ovis him that
cordial support and approval which he had hitherto received
on the Polish question. (Cheers.)
Lord ELCHO called the attention of the house to the
recent perdue, of lead at South Kensington, and wished to
know what the government proposed to do with it. He
believed the natural history collection was the only aollao
tics that could properly be removed to South Keasingtoe.
and trusted that so the building would shortly be cleared
away, the government would lose no time in making up
their minds as to the use to which the land was to be appro-
priated.
Lord RAYNHAM, in the case of Poland, did not think
sympathy sufficient- In hie opinion we ought to afford, as
far as could be justified, that material aid which alone could
be beneficial.

Lord PALMERSTON said he would wish in the first place
to aoswer the question put to him by his noble friend re-
specting the Exhibition ground. It was quite true that the
ground would probably be cleared, u soon as the operation
could be performed, of the building now upon it. Aod he
bad been informed that whereas the house were of opinion
that it would be • dear bargain at 80,0001., the contractors
were likely to get 103,0001. or more for it. Her Majesty's
government would between this time and the next session
of parliament consider with respect to the disposition of the
ground, and take steps to provide for those wants for which
it was adapted. The bon. gentleman the mem-
ber for Tamales seemed to think that the govern-
meet had changed their policy with regard to Greece. No
change, however, had taken place; her Majesty's government
thought that if • sovereign were chosen for Greece who
promor d constitutional government to the country, peace-
ful relations with his neighbours, and abstinence from in-
terference in the affairs of other countries, it would be
advantageous that the lonian Islands should be added to
Ceeses. He (Lord Palmerston) believed such a severer"
bad tun chosen. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member thought
that because the new king was young his future policy could
not be relied 00, and instemed Keg Otho, who had no
doubt dieappouited expectettons. He (Lord Pal-
mentos) was, however, convinced that there
would be no disappointment in the can of King George
but that he would govern the country coestitutionally,
would develop its resources, and would maintain peaceful
relations with his neighbour. When the lonian Islands
were plead under the protection of Bruised it was in
order that we might promote their interests. He thought
that that intention bad been fulfilled by the manner in
which the country had been governed, and it was now
with a view to their advantage that her Majesty's
government were willing that the Islands should be mitten
to Greece. They would be so united if the lonian people
should think the union for their advantage, but they would
not be united unless it should be their express wish to be so.
They had expressed that wish when one would have thought
the union would be more a punishment than a boos, and if
they now again expressed such a wish, the course would be
this. Her Majesty's government would obtain the outer-
niece of the governments which had plead the islands
under our protection for au offer to be made to the lonian
parliament. If that offer should be accepted the union
would take place—if not, no violence would be offered to
the feelings of the lonian people. Redid not expect, how-
ever, that the lonian people would do otherwise than wish to
be united to the kingdom of Greece. The honourable
member had adverted to the queetiou of the right of Turkey to
be a party tothat union, but he (Lord Palmenton) had share
that the treaty on which the hon. member relied, WY DOi ooe
of accession, but merely one recognising a fact which had
already been established. There was a material and feeds-
mental differeoce between a treaty acknowledging facts
which bad been created independently and one of accession.
It was exactly as if, peace having been established between
the Federals and Confederates in America, we had entered
into relations with the latter ; in which use the treaty would
' merely acknowledge facts which had already taken place.
He thought, therefore, that there were no just grounds
for asserting that we had departed from oar original
policy with respect to the union of the lonian
. He trusted that that onion would
be accomplished, that it would redound to the honour of
England, and would prove the disinterestedness of our
policy. His right hen. friend the member for Limerick had
asked whether they were willing to lay before parliament
she corre,spendence which bad taken place in the years 1825
and 1826 between this government and Russia with
to the interference which took plea in Green, and regard
resulted in the independence of that kingdom. His right
hoc. friend bad certainly established a very strong resent.
blance, in some points, between that traasactiou and the
affairs which were now under discussion with regard
to Poland. There was then an insurrection which
went on for some time 'without interference from the
other powers, but at last the gunfire le human life,
and the atrocities which were committed attracted the
attention of Europe, and interference was the resole first
friendly and then of a more forcible nature. The ultimate
cause of the interference was the intention avowed by
Ibrahim Pacha of removing the whole population of the
Mores and replacing them by Fellable from Egypt.
That led to an immediate decision on the part of the three
Powers to interfere to prevent such en outrage. But he had
not heard of anything like that having as yet taken pleas
in Poland. (Hear, near ) Still there was no disguising the
fact that the present state of things in Poland was most
lamentahle—(hear, bear)—and not only the condition of
Poland, but of Lithuania—thee, hear)—for, whilst on the
one hand the Remains government stated that if the pro-
prietors did not actually assist the government they would be
subject to every eon of penalty that could be io fi lend on them,
on the other hand, the revolutionary government et Wsnaw
threatened that if they did not assist in the insurrection
they would be subject to all the penalties that it was in
their power to inflict. (Hear, bear.) So that between
these two their condition was most pitiable. (Hear, hear.)
With regard to the correspondence, which was very volum-
inous, he would undertake that it should be looked into
with a view of selecting those parts which were appropriate
to the present occasion, and as to such parte of it as had
any intarestiog bearing on the present question there would
be no difficulty ss to their production. (Hear, hear.) So
far as the cases had any resentblauce, the principles
that would be found to have been maintained by
Russia with regard to Greece might possibly have a metals
effect upon the grounds to be taken by the other Powers
with regard to Poland. With regard to the Polish question
itself, the house would not expect him to enter into soy dis-
cussion. (Hear.) Bat he would say one word as to the
Russian despatch. In the former correspondence oe the
subject of Poland the ground taken by the Russian govern-
meet had always been that the quelling of the insurrection
in 1631 and 1832 emancipated Russia from all the oblige-
trees of the treaty of Vienna, sod that she at that
time held the country as a conquered provioce,
to do with it as she pleased, as part of the
Russian empire; and hence the denied the right of any
of the parties to the treaty of Vienna to question her treat-
ment of Poland. But in this despatch a great step had bee,
gained, for Russia sow admitted that the parties that con-
curred in the treaty of Vienna were entitled to discuss with
her the state ot Poland within the limits of that treaty.
' (Hear, hear.) With regard to whet course her Majesty's
government intended to take is these matter;it was far
too important a matter to be the subject of an off-hand
newer to that house. (Hear, hear.) All that it was com-
patible with his (Lord Palmerstoo's) duty to state was this
—that her Majesty's government would continue to act
with France and Austria is these matters, upon which they
were under an assessment to act in concert with those two
powers. (Hear, near.)
Sir J. FERO CSSON said he thought the course of the
debate showed the greet inconvenience of discusaiog these
matters is any other than • regular way. He would only
observe that one result of an occasion when the three powers,
I Russia, France, and Eoglaod, were in alliance, was the
occurrence of an "untoward event" of which they bed all
heard. He affirmed that Great Britain had never under.
taken a war except where her own individual interests were
concerned. (Oh, oh.) The Crimean war was undertaken to
prevent the overthrow of a balance of power in the Mediter-
ranean. But Poland was not sufficiently bound
up with our interests as that we should be parties for
her mks to the renewal of a great European struggle.
Sir J. SHELLEY, referring to the meeting at St.
James's Hall, said if there was one thing more than another
which was foremost in his thoughts and in the thoughts of
others who spoke epees that cassia, it was their desire to
strengthen her Majesty's government if they should find
hereafter that insults were heaped upon this country, sod
to ensure them of support in soy coarse which might be ne-
cessary, even though it should lead to war. If any mistake
had been made upon this subject it was by the government
in making a proposition to Russia which DO man of sense
could believe her likely to assent to, and the reply was an
insult to this country.

Sir J. FERGUSSON bad me tateatiee o esavey as ythirtg
diereopeotful to his hoe. Mead, sad was wary that say re-
marks of hie should hare led to that impremims„
The motion for adioarament till Moaday was then with.
damns.