The Express.
London, England, 1852-05-25 00:00:00

fG, MAY 25, 1852.,

to mato of this oompetition as the
sugar. He was aware that estregie
•sipid tales; sad he knew thee the presume
wavemseedifigy severe at present; but he had no her
that, with lb great Sutural advantages—tb• nature of the
ma and ellesaks—Jsmalea would recover herself. The
Wee thA,Lonhai listened too much to noble lords appe-
al means of improventeat. (Hear, hem.)
Mart ly looked to protection and nothing else;
awl at rash was, that whilst all the ether West India
abides sad the Mauritius wen preleg, in Jestabe
alma Ike of tha pleats= Mewed bet 13.
le
Int-
-1 Ha sasaghed he detang their
cbutle they rod* to be wines
r hem these %sestina dir. The graft careseereisl
ilia itirteld nvelhlisir whisk began in 1546, lad taken
gime saw shooletalbale of great disadvantage. The
abed L. of the men lime was hardly passed, before the
psis dlssie ease epee the country again and, con-
einieatly with this. Mere was a great deficiency in the
vest erep, ast only in this country but through-
set Mempe. There wee all but • bailee in
Ireland ; and every one felt the sweetest approbiaeion
that we goad be out of supplies bales the neat harvest.
In 11147 se
47 Ma. pee tarts/ erse paid ha sew in
Mukha. Thee than sans the hada Mid= 611111 the
railway mat at of 1043.411. and ale.
Hod of the Marelleleese as sad distant followed. But
wee this ell T. is 1343 tb• French revelnqoa brake out

eM iii;slisik teal Tine
lieseew lea Edam to met wee immediate pro-
em i Wiwi& lie hew hide imiley how had this sountry
dem him the pwee tell. people 'admitted with
rillisod sal dry were soon rewarded,
wandwriry sod eafiermies speedily revived com-
atose/a, and all tame of those fearful calami-
, See were Ahead la en incredibly short time.
In thoiziod of EMT= they were compelled to borrow
10, and sew providea had bum made for reducing
the by 10,974,00 K. leachr a beim, in favour of the
readies of debt of 074.1011. Me theaght he had now
sell emeugh to mashise them that the remit of their cm-
metelal and Amadei pellet had been molt gratifying to
them whose dots wee 111 maintain that policy through
the Moused which they had to main.
Ws. Whoa theme =triwere so clear, when the
mem of the mama of the last few year had
been emehliflad so eampletely beyond ell question,
it on very natural that the country should feel
meet matime to know whether the powerful party to
whieh the adds lord opposite belonged did or did not ha-
-1 tend to temple in any way with that policy. In one vu.
meet that satiety had been relieved that night by the most
INgtortant adoration that had been made, but still he
!Vt it wee far from being entirely relieved, and be
ac* help saying he quite concurred with his noble
friend near him that up to that moment they were no less
in doubt than they were on the day the administration was
formed of what were the real views of he? Majesty's go-
vernment on the subject. Were they convinced they bad
been wrong In them years in which they had represented
it as the ruin of the country, or were they convinced that
they were right ? Did they still think they were right ? If
8o let them discuss the question fairly and in a straight-
forward manner. If they knew they were wrong, then let
them say so, and relieve the country from the uncertainty
in which it at present was. lie would tell the noble earl
that a straightforward declaration would not only be the
most honourable end the beet for the interests of the enact-

try, but it would aho be the beet for the strength end dura-
bility Mills administration. The noble earl might depend
upon It Met ble administration gained no strength in the
°matey by die studied concealment on a point of such
import** (deer, hear.) This was no mere,
rsaillia WI 0011111 which every person who took up pub-
ihe NMI have made up his mind long ago. (Hear.) 1
The SOll IV DEBBY—I one prepared to say on the part
elmmnif sail my noble Mends and my colleagues in the
gam boas of parliament, that I do not think we shall be
MIMI% either the one or the other of the alternatives to
mhisla the noble earl has referred. With due respect to the
nat. earl I mut say that shiest the whole of the speech
we have just heard is, in a great wean's, if not altogether,
Irrelevant to the subject now before us, that subject
being not the financial condition of tho country,
but whether we should renew, for a single year, an
objectionable tax, or leave the country in a deficiency,
this year of two minis* and probably in the next year of
floe millions. I say that in the discussion of a bill for such
a measure I do not think it relevant to enter into the whole
discussion of the commercial policy of the country, more
especially when the noble earl knows that in the circum-
stances in which her Majesty's government have been
placed and in which they took office so full and complete
disoustion on that subject is on their part impossible. The
greater part of the noble earl's speech refers to a point
wholly irrelevant to the continuance of the income tax—
namely, to the effect which he considers to have been in-
troduced by free trade in sugar. Aod when, on the one
hand, the noble earl has with candour admitted that the
great revolution in commercial policy to which he refers did
net take place at an earlier period than 1848, and conse-
quently do not refer to the earlier period of Sir R. Peel's
administration, from 1842 to 1846 ; yet, at the same time,
he asked whether it is the intention to pursue the commer-
cial policy of Sir It. Peel ; and he illustrated that question
Nanelabereq argument on the subject of the sugar duties.
ow, permit me to remind your lordships, that the bill for
abolishing the differential duties on suer,. was no part of
tie polity of Sir Robert Peel . and, it is perfectly well
known, that when the prologs' for the remission of those
didirsatial duties was ma e by lam Melfety's late govern-
ment, Sir Robert Peel, with the psutsk releetanoe, was
Minced to goat= to that Zama besanse be thought
that the i wee equitable or
ttreert be be lad to choose
the efts Web mode at paosedieg end
the Xdadre lab gemommant hem aim.
dig Ii ca 4it the onereas bed I Mink the a&
kb= anme sprgt in _ aggesages, alliseses
lbw was sloping • pair be Naar woe eggs* to.
Thud= de set let dm - lord set he surestry dd. the
giddies off tbe dlibeatial deities in war as a mot= of
She /dim of I* Z. Peel. Wilk regmi to the dab of
Oat mem= I am esay to say the sable lord is ender a
whoa se spoke
wises
the almost total essm-
ilimirt ie bele. end wises lie ettsibsted Oat to
ilbe bee OW egabse. In the bat gine, the ' sale
ead is. snag ha point of bd. It b I
lene m-
durableay sid by the vigorous a= agave agesatiens of
ow swim a the ea= of Ablest sad ea Doe& the slays
pair Ire boa very meek put dews. The enggeoesio• has
bees dad if late by the pat exudes, sat= have
been mai, by theßeeidOfaa comment, but dm maim earl
is ends* in mar was eguaking df Cuba. LOW of the
slave tads beilog pair= there it is, I ea aril is Nib at
shismemest os the he ems.. No man sage= am mere
dank thlt bee Wade in sager, the
Whet ea esiller WWiestill=resiesies, and the &dins of the
Ware trade. At this mument, while Jamas is in
• state of great disarms. the stems machinery of
Jog= is in large wail= being transferred to Cuba,
I old eagle= di arida I entertained in 1846,
dint k *5 lag run froommora sugar cannot, except in
muse gamed dtuatioms• tiebi-Mote advantageously with slave-
rpm Near a Cable WWI, and, although it may be
guile true that at megosst there is an increased
MMUS of sugar • =glad !am the British co-
gr. yej ." the abbe east will look to the
eistea he will He that that circumstance is
Mem tben egoommated by a fall in prise, and though the
gamer ie at Ile present newel sdatlag prauction,
Oa alias( hi !sopa *roe • esnigemationaet he
Eimams millibeldg tits amemat devil. But the
dogs: is lad: apart hem the moestisa who-
r/global se teed sat maw the higenosing gm 'seam
elfs @Me earl melee to snip= that net with ra-
te imgelasment thee beelmen made, any bill that has
botaft=ard, wr ' esg • blinstbst that has been
he iminiseunis ea bag load some
Pe zalditno tribe emsoluf emease
vue.. oar step veaumolos st
uspud upefies's:al
that it • 1 not a basullbs that I am to
lei that
present moment, Indie ageddly under the
=which me have ealeped Macaw* I. the pm-
leas" we will net aim* meg Saiimill amp
rthe eassideration of paribiesa. Ask .
isk the Mme will agree with moo this war et%
=se lageraident or more impradide lbw to hold out
which it is impalas for us to decide
ritdimil = parliament amembies. Now I em
' not rag to follow either the noble dales, or the noble
earl, or any noble lord who has epoken this evening, into
the general discussion on the abstract merits of free trade
leg commercial policy. To a portion of that Smlnterelal p - 1
Nig I warn willingly a consenting party. I willingly re-
dm* the amount of differential duties, because I
`um theiteue with Sir It. Peel of placing this
Mr a footing not of nominal, but real,
. et intriguing as iessilde our
a bash amine to the industryce=saseir as of
Om ~Mies. les lemon*, nor IMO d aloe me the
tellal=isth
of whoa
alliebo I artef Wpm teig it ,
as is peristetteir to Materiallydi-
to inereeeattre seasuat et esaeserolies, mil up ally se
in certain • mime. to me= ug is lade am 1111 revenue
which might be anaci IN Ms ilknimitien of bay, and in
that principle, whether 111111.0114 by Sir R. Peel or any
other party, I am willing Is se-operate. Undoubtedly if
without injustice to WM/ OW* or without loss to the
revenue, we can give. be 1110 pope of the country at large
summand of the aireeieeW and luxuries of life, no
doubt if a lower
peena those luzuMes and those
essakirts will the same revenue end
at the sum time will name =lady upon east classes of
the emannusity,4t mist he el matter of repoldag to every
era that tbe ?nos of sealialltier should be brought so
low and witlun the mai of: Me large oleo rof ananneets
la the waatry. Nor de llm a single menseit dory that
there bra been a great bon Methrred upon the anseneers
•generay of this couleur la the diminished price Meager
otaseqeeet on the re en of the duties. Nobody can
doubt that thrinbzet:aizrgreat addreElhazthe esonforts
of the dm olds lift But
the feat ID le aim sad singly
whether bits a adeestege derived by the
the cone hArit : . but whether that
advantage let act of injustice and
spoliation em veil, who, on the faith of
an act of bilavabarked their capital in the
ptlaiswe
cultivation gash Okla Weil, this is dose. It may be
difficult to retreating, slegtt but I more* in the face of
the great advantec people of this country have
derived :Yom the p import of sLave-grewn sugar, that 1
orMild'afitirlf rather ve seen a entailer advantage derived
by the haproved cultivation and encouragement given to
these who have a nattoral and a rightful claim upon us,
than I Mould have errs a senswhat Increased advantage in
the amount of claeapness *Med by what at the time I con-
' sidered* act of injustice, and what I consider now, in
spite of" what earl
what the noble rl has said, has a tendency to
predate sugar by' an Inseam of slavery. In like manner.
I do not deny that it is possible that there has been

ma Increased derasumplias of the neeemsines of life,
1a ileneequenee of the vest fall in the price of eons in this
country, but that that West.. has been in snything like
the proportion that has been stated by noble lords opposite,
is directly contrary to the facts, and, if I had the figures, I
Weld show has heels, greatly exaggerated. Noble lords
Waits talk about an Increase of ten millions of quarters
grain in the tuensomption of one year. They overlook
die fact that, before 1848, the importation was something
like three or four millions of quieter., which, being de-
ducted, leaves only from six to seven millions of quarters.
The noble end asked me if I believed that 800,000 acres
of wheat land have gone out of cultivation—in
the face, he says of all the immense hie:mare', under
fnelosure note, ;hat have taken place ? But al-
though 800,000 acres no doubt have gone out of cul-
tivation, does the noble earl mean to tell me that there has
been no diminution in the mount of grain sent to this
country from Inland? Does he not know there has been
• diminution of something like 300,000, and that in the
course of the last three years you have had a further re-
duction of imports from Ireland to tho amount of some-
thing like two millions of quarters of cern. I do not say
there has been no increase in the consumption of corn in
this country, but when noble lords opposite say the
increase has been to the amount of 10 millions,
they grossly exaggerate, and nearly fourfold, that which
I believe to be the increased consumption of this country.
But, my lords, how has that increase been produced ? The
noble duke (Newcastle) passed very lightly over this part of
the subject, and said he would not deal with the question as
affected landlords and tenants. Well, that is a very sum-
mary mode of proceeding. It may he very well for
the noble duke—it may be very well for other
noble lords, and for the large landed proprietors of this
country, to say, " We can afford heavy losses, and still have
a • large disposable fortune—still a sufficient income
to support us in comforts and conveniences." But, I
say, there are large classes in this country who arc
both landlords and tenants. (Hear, hear.) Leaving out
of sight, for the moment, tho landlords on the one hand,
and the farmers on the other, I ask what has been the
condition of that class which consists of landlords and

tenants combined, the small proprieton cultivating their
own land, on 111110•1 this kip has fallen with a double
weight, and on whom it has primed with a severity which
has utterly extinguished • considerable portion of the elms,
and driven a considerable portion hoes to seek refuge in
other countries from the difficulties forced on them sud-
denly at home ? (Hear,. hear.) I see with satisfaction,
and I believe it to be ao in a great part of this eountry,l
that the labouring classes are enjoying at this moment a
very considerable amount of prosperity ;—(cheers)—and I,
indeed, should be the very last man who would desire, by
any measure I might recommend to parliament, to deprive
those labourers of any portion of that prosperity. (Cheers.)
But, undoubtedly, I say the prosperity of the labourer must
be ultimately dependent on the prosperity and comfort of
the employer; and if you diminish materially the means of
the employers of labour, sooner or later that must tall upon
the labourer, and by him ultimately must that loos be borne.
(Hear, hear.) Wages have not been diminished et the
present moment in proportion to the fall in the price of
corn ' • that is to say, the loss so for has fallen on the land-
lords and on the teeants, and not upon the labourers; and
in consequence of that fact, as I believe it to be, en doubt
the labourers are enjoying • considerable degree of pros-
perity. It is also perfectly true, as stated by the noble
lords opposite, that in the course of the last two
or three years both tenants and landlords hats
been making extraordinary exertion. to improve the
system of agriculture in this country. The stimulus of
necessity has operated upon them ; and, to • certain extent,
it has operated on them moat advantageously: but it has
operated on them, nevertheless, in some directions' with
great severity, with great oppression, and with great hard-
ship ; sad I have very great doubts whether, in many
caw—although the temporary consequences of that outlay
and that expenditure so undergone have been most bene-
ficial upon the condition of the working classes—that
outlay and that expenditure have not proved • dead
loss to the proprietors and to the tenant.. My lords,
I do not further contest this—that in the course of the last
few years there has been a great extension of our
articles of export. I am net going to enter on
the question— a very difficult question, and one
which I think no person can properly investigate or
fully explain at the present moment—what hes been
or what is likely to be the effect of the astounding dis-
coveries of gold taking place in various quarters of the
world. But of this I have, no doubt: that, if it had not
been for those great and increasing discoveries of gold, and
for that largo influx which is arriving into this country
with rapidly increasing speed, you would have seen a very
different state of commercial affairs in the course of the
last year from that which you sec at the present moment.
(Rear, hear.) And although it may be quite true that the
amount of OUT imports has largely increased, that the
amount of our exports has largely increased, and that the
amount of some of our productions has largely increased,
I very greatly doubt whether, if we could look into the
balance sheets of our commerciali men, wo should
find that the increased amount of traffic, of production,
of exports and imports, have been accompanied with a cor-
responding amount of profit,; my belief, on the contrary,
being that we should see that with the largest amount of
trade, I think, ever known, few years, abort of years of ab-
solute panic, have been less profitable to importers and to
merchant. generally than the three or tour years which
have just elapsed. (Hear, hear.) In proof of the prospe-
rity of the country, noble lords opposite arejond of quoting
the returns, attesting a diminution in the amount of pau-
perism ; and the noble earl (Grey), for example, commenced
with 1848, and congratulated the country on the decrease of
pauperism dace 1918. Well
_my lords, but is it quite fair
to take the year ISO ? Why, when it suited another
ppaarrtt of the argument, we had a most vivid
iaelaration front the noble earl who had just sat down that
1848 was of so exceptional a character, one in which all
dame were involved in such absolute ruin, being besides
the year immediately succeeding the famine (though he
did not mention that feet), that the amount of pauperism in
that year is not by any means a safo point from which to
talc late our " increasing prosperity.' I believe, however,
I am menet in saying that, with all the prosperity of the
comb" at this moment, with all the diminution in the
prime of food, with all the diminution in the amounts for
the idle of each individual pauper, your expenses, even in
W t year, for the maintenance of your paupers
emceed—obsorve in this present year—fa real
lOW* eesrwt that which they were in 1846 anellllll.
[ffear, howl Now, I will not take the equivocal peer
11101. But I will not admit that it is a posit of inertial's
prosperity, es .ktftA from free trade, that doe the Salm
peer, ISM, the amount of per pram hos 100
in this country. I lee, fdlierliehrddie
Wain heads demi I Wired thalica
that in the er lent pad a very
mum is maiplit inereming verlibmses
dation by beading new homes and altering old hewn
end I don't think that this looks like a symptom of laseeme
presgri=r diminishing pauperism. But, say pat-
nhbed. Is It a great proof of prosperity
Sash
die bans and the sinew of the country is emigrating
, flying from distress here, and seeking employ-
ment la other countries? I ask you, has this mitigation
Mitno effect on your returns of pauperhna ? We are
tid there has been a falling of ut the course of the
prillost year of I think 17,000 paupers. Now, at the ex-
pense of the parishes alone, there have been sent out about
2.000 from England during the present year; and
that estimate of diminished pauperism takes no
aoeount of the emigration which ham gone on.
voluntarily from England and Ireland together, and
which amounted In the course of last year to between*
600,080 and 800,000 persons. Why, that is an emigration,
in great part, of the pauperised elm.
Earl GREY—But there were not 600,000. They gene
only 300,000.
Bad of DERBY (after some examination of • document
handed to hest by ope of the ministers)—The noble earl Ice
quite right. The total is 336,000 from England and Ire-
land. It however, difficult to ascertain what is the pre-*
tile amount of the Irish emigration, because a large pro-`
portion of the Irish emigrants sad from Liverpool, and
then, of course, come into the returns of English emigration.
But if 835,000 of the pauperised class of the community
have emigrated in the course of a year, following upon the
diminution of the population by &mine and by disease, to
an extent Which is really troful to contemplate. it fa not
extraordinary that, under such circumstances, without any'
reference to free traits at all, there should be a diminution
in the total amount of the relieved pauperism of this
country. (Hear, beer.) I aid not intend certainly (pro-
ceededthe noble earl after • long pause in which he
peered to consult with his colleagues on the front Mines-
Oriel bench) to be drawn into any discussion of the general ,
condition of the country as estimated by the amount of
pauperism and other circumstances, referred to at such
great length by various noble lords. All I desire
to say is this—that while I do not deny that
certain classes of the community have largely
gained by the introduction of the free trade E11110•11Sy
while I believe that the whole community has gainiskeens
siderably by the greater cheapness of thole adds@ of swim
sumption which are imported from ether osentelen—l I
nevertheless believe, with regard to ease peelinme et die
free trade. system • that thi&V.7l.l not hp tap nmanIONISS
an unmitigated ;cad, sad bele yeemeinpon Jellgo
sections of the community beie, tad upon lore !madam of I
our colonial fellow-subjects, with severe and injurious:re-I
stilts. The noble earl has asked me—seeking a declaration
—what is the policy which the government intend to par-
sue—do they iutend to reverse the policy of Sir Robert
Peel, or do they not? Now, my lords, I have already
stated, perhaps mare distioctly than was absolutely discreet,
that I have had no intention of reversing the policy of Sir
[Robert Peel ; understanding by that policy the policy
which prevailed from 1842 down to 1846. I are even no
desire of reversing the policy of Sir Robert Peel, as evinced
1848 by • reduction of the duties oa the import offmiles I
corn. I should desire, as I have repeatedly stated, and 4
sow with my right Iwo. friend the Chancellor of the Ra•
Mier in believing so, that a moderate duty. upon the in..
lag Of foreign corn, while it would not perceivably increase
the petals the consumer, would be for the countryat largo
the ebeepeet and the most effectual mode of giving relief 611
thine *mai who are now suffering from recent oonanterelal
leghleffien. I repeat again, what I have said distinctly be-
fore, elm the question whether that alternative shall he
le one upon which the country must decide ; and 1
• that I have given such great satiefaction to the
Tad and to the noble lords opposite, by what they
call an important declaration which has been made by me
this evening, end which was neither =mace lees thus this,
that in my belief, and as far as 1 can judgto, the lion" "1
the impending election will net be in favour of
• proposition to reimpose any duties whatever on
foreign corn—will not be to give me, la fact,
such an authority without which, es I previously
declared, I would sot submit that proposition to partite-
meet. (Hear, hear.) When the noble earl Cella me that I
have given up all idea of such a proposition, that 1 have

abandoned all idea and intention of bringing it forward, I
must take the libertyloohaftsaibiamolgrtslithdatclimparrecnidp.io,b,ljentilloirowilmibthins..r
oce.pnesioonne..tsitieapt tloo
wfoarul.a
out a majority. I have now intimated my opinion that we
are not likely to have such a majority, so far as I can judge
from present appearances. But, if the sense of the country
should be different from that which I at this nonneet inter-
pret. then I say I bold my former opinion, namely, is no
other mode could we more advantageously, linanciully, or
commercially, provide for the distress of stiffi:riiio etas," of
this country. Then, however, the noble lord, having thug
misrepresented me, of course uniutentiunally, stating that
I bad abandoned all idea now or at any other time of pro-
posing any duty on foreign cora, proceeds to say, Will yee
go one step further, and will you declare that you will do
nothing whatever for the purpose (I don't recollect his par-
ticular expression, but the expression has been used by
other noble lords) of " tampering" with the existing
system ? Now, if the noble lord mines to ask,
me whether, as minister of the crown, if 1 um unaWe•
to afford relief to those inter, ate which are suffering,
in that manner which I believe to be the most &dean.
tageous, I am therefore prepared to abandon them altoge.
ther, and to seek for no other mode of relieving them, I
say not only will I not say that, but it is the precise oppo-
. site of that which I have said before, and of that which I
will repeat now. And I now declare, whatever may. be the
consequences with regard to the support or opposition of
noble lords opposite, or of right hon. gentlemen elsewhere,
that it is the purpose of the government to seek to etfurd a
bet and an equitable relief to Dom classes who, if for the
nefit of the community at throe, have N-111 made the
victims and sufferers; and I believe that on the part
of the English people there is that sense of justice that they,
will not see one class, or two or more aliases, deprived of
the advantages which they have hitherto enjoyed, and at
the same time rendered subject to an undue proportion of
the burdens they have hitherto borne. 1 nude, therefore,
distinctly, that at is my intention, and that it is the wish
and the determination of the government, to direct their
attention to the bent method they can devise of relieving
those suffering interests. The extent and the nature of the
relief may not be altogether within our own control and
command ; but to afford that relief, and at the same tune
to do full justice to all classes iu the community, I declare
now, as I have declared before, that the attention of the
government will be directed, and that we shell bold it to
be our paramount duty, in some shape or other, to extend
that relief to those dames who have been suffering foe the
good—if it be the good—of the rest of the people. (Loud
cheers.)
The Duke of ARGYLL denied that, se a class, the pro-
ducers had suffered. lie e.xpressed sat,sfuction at the intima-
tion of Lord Derby, that the country would not give him a
majority in favour of protection at the coming election;
' , and, as that intimation amounted in effect to an abandon-
merit of that policy, he pressed on his lordshii, that no dis-
advantage could result to him if he would honestly declare.
that it was finally abandoned, and that no future attempt
would be made to press on • reluctant people mea.sures
which lie believed would be fatal to the safety of the country.
The bill was then read a second time, and
At a quarter before ten their lordships adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—MONDAY, Mtl' 21.
The Bruaza took to their at a quarter before foul
o'clock.