The Express.
London, England, 1862-06-24 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS;


the intestio• el parliament evidently to place in the hands 1 our iamb. Sir G. Settoritie has said that the ability of
of the district commissionen power to deal with the reform defence has been increased in the proportion of tea to one.
and with the sammareete, and in strictest.* be did not think We have Ina and Math and are better able than other
there was any matronly in the government to retry the potato to make use of those advanteges which Wore has
oases. It was undoubtedly the duty of the district corn- pea us. (Hear.) I meet my that I agree with her who
miasitmersl duty which he believed was generally, and he look epos the ides of inmates en absolute dahlia—(hmar,
thought he might say universally, performed—to investigate heer)—ad that as attempted invasion easy he met by the
all these ems. It sometimes heppesed that thembunt• proper arm of this country—the nistry--d b should ever
were made to the executive governmest with respect to , take Mos. (Hear, hear.) But the ecalasey of our plug-
asseesnients, and with respect to the judgments of the atm. , eacity hie already brought our taxatioa to upwards of
matinees, and it sot unfrequestly bappened that the re- meaty millions. If we are to be continually interfering
venue commissioners, if they found that the district oom- if we are to be ono day drawing reform billa for Sardinia,
missioners bad gone wrong, directed an Aker to submit another day interfering with America, sad then pointing
the cm again to them ; sad that mime was found most the finger of suspicios at France, the natural consequeum
likely to bring the matter to a Mistake, conclusion. , will a that we must have the income tax saddled on us for
There was, in addition, an appeal to the Treasury, or more ever, and not only that but we must revive the paper duties
generally to himself, as Chancellor of the Exchequer. It and other taxes. I therefore protest against the policy of
woe not, however, the custom of the executive government the government. (Hear, hear.) What is the opinion of
to retry these caeca. There was no difference us point of that policy by two members of the present cabinet! One
' practice between the course to be taken in cams of larger gentleman, who is of course entitled to respect an •
and smaller amounts of income tax, but in point of fact the member of the cabinet, observed that, greatly as
appals generally came from parties who paid on incomes of he respected the courage and patriotism of the
under 150/. • year. I noble loth, he thought his policy was marked
and thatecterised by a spirit d interferises. and that he
THE SEATS IN THE KENSINGTON GARDEN& was laying the foundation a a system still
to the into.
Mr. W. EWART asked the First Ootemindoner ci rests of freedom and destructive of the peas of the world.
Public Works whether the public were to be accommodated (Hear, hear.) These are the sentiments upraised by the
by the restoration of the old, and by a greeter present Chancellor of the Exchequer on the foreign policy
number of new seats in Hyde.park and Reusing- of the noble lord. (Hear, hear.) But there is smother
ton-gardens, topecidly round the larger trees therein. !probably entitled to man might. It is the opinion
Mr. COWPER said it was the practice of the department I opinion,mar of the cabinet, and am ma entitled to respect.
to restore the seats retorted to by the hon. member and to ,(A laugh.) The gentleman said that when the able lord
=tide new ones as the convenienced the public required ' was in any trouble be made no difficulty in accepting the
This year he believed it ale intended to place 25 votes of the conservatives &PAM the Poor liberal party ;he
new seats in the pork. &Laded to. Meer.) also spoke of the mischievous activity of the able lord,
who interfered at all times and in all parts of the world ,•
IRISH BILLS. and he further said that he thought the name of
In reply to Mr. ileum; Palmenton was far from being a tower et
Be R. PEEL said that on Friday morning he pro- Wire said tat ? Why the President of the =II
Posed to Proceed with the Poor-law Bill, and, ham; Trade. (" Hear, her," and • laugh.) I may ask how hes
rot through that, to take no the County Surveyors Bill and ta Emperor of the French justifith the treatment he has
the Weights sad Messum WI: reeivd at the hoods of the noble lord ? When this country
Mr. GREGORY said the riot hoe. gentleman the was paralysed by the terrible Indian mutiny, the Emperor
member for the 17nivetsity of Dublin, whether it was in- mot only gave us the ems sympathy whisk the able lord
tended to pealed with the Marriages (Ireland) Bill during
seam f;ivezotto Itely this —words--but Ns offered • pomp throups
the pretest . for the troops of country. (Hear, hear.) Armin,
Mr. WHTTESIDE said he had not bad an opportunity with regard to the affair of the Teat, Frames resiontheated
of asking his bars. and learned friend the meets for Belfast with the America government, sad was estirely es our
(Sir Hugh Cairns whet his int:intim were on the subject, side--(bear, hear)—ead farther, when it was determined to
but he that the state of patine MMea would send our troops to Canada, the Emperor was the man who
reader it to go further with the bill at• 1. furnished the worm clothing from the demob of
Me lf CH inquired whether the Judgment mown country( bear)--end yet we are told eoutinally in
lion Bill would be prosseded with. irritating berme to beware of Francs. These are neither
Mr. WHITESIDE -It is before • select committee. the tradition, of the liberal party nor of that
In reeAy to Mr. VANCIa whig party which was once great sad flourish*. In •
Sir 8.. PEEL maid it was his intention to apply for • letter to Mr. Fox, Lord Grey repudiated the nal of such
morning sitting next week to premed with the Fairs and foolish expressions, which he said served no purpose but
Markets (Ireland) Bill. that of irritatioa and distrust. (Hear, bear.) The liberal
FORTIFICATIONS AND WORKS. piny bee somewhat fallen away and declined since that
The house baying gone into committee, day. What has become of the womb, " path retrench-
Sir„..,_ mut, sad reform," enunciated by Loth Grey ? Pesos has
G' LEWIS moved a resalat"k
" Thek "welds v-- became • sort of armed truce with an expeditors el war,
theme a further sum for defra the "gems" et retrench 1 ha, bloom the 'abbot of abaset
the construction of ma farthe defence of the
of Intim anmr reform is now treated as en aldithat and dia.
royal de:loads and artenab, and of the ports
ferresable eseilledolll, and net adleved to come late the
Dover and Portland, and for the creation of •
house. ("Hew, bear," sad telef&. bath is the seas of
central arsenal, a som not exceeding 1,200,0001. be charged „._ m____,
pat ~ ,_ that tbabausa
upon the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom, and r" •"'""s__, • t"`"__.' hear.) WM,
abstract resolutions.
or= are
that the Oonabsiosers of her Majesty's Treasury be '''' '''' ?"'"" .
authorised and empowered to raise the rid am be th take P.m hem the Powell who will it,
annuities, for a Mesaaot srossdias 39 ; and that retheschamat from whatever tide of is the ham it will semi
iiiiruittar shall bs =ad upon sad be payable out of the and reform whoa they one get it. ("Hear, bear,' and
said Comididatad • a 1..... bw .......... ia ru„_ langliter.) In say event, I move so abstract resolution—
pod of lib, mkt*, by am,"7—iits upna—• 717 rusk (hear, hear)—and. sir, I pat this moieties with some eft-
, ideas in your hods. (Haar, hear.)
thP4alieyaaturret ofdtwiraasa;medve "I*w had.whithhe abwred.wele not <el7
laaralYtrds..; Sir G.C. LEWIS said that he had already stated as briefly
aste possible the principal topics beating on the question of
police.tTharathe "awe?. otherwevidsaluaistaegeteritheto bseeborumtemels la fortification ; but he thought his hon. friend had hardly
mind, with reference to prwrisions. for the dawns °cast earthed any great forbearance in the remarks he had ad-
o:al:tisk would_ „plait, the minus, of our adittary dressed to the awe, for, having prepared himself at great
• and be had wow to the saushisisa that it bat hon the subject of the Spitbead foeL, he had thought
would be impossible to maintain the gametal efficiency al the It sec...BM although the `Meet" withdraw° for the
War Deportment without maintaining the arirtroturdi_ present from thew practical mosideratiem, to speak the
ture?,,,owiairmisitsakisacy withoutiastaasedsr • ura; speech which he had so carefully preperet—(heer, heart—
efficiency being only another word for increased
ed to read numerous extraot• tram evidence wholly iced..
vat to the question before the committee. He would
He then compared the military expediters in 1 with
that of the meat year, the amount of the former babe all attention to the practical effect of the resoletices of the
- h nth= • th of its being adopted by the
12,677,000 e, and that of the lather 14,573,000 i., MOM to cm' ge th, la ° evens
a reduction fir stores and volunteers, which make the real committee. There were two cores, either of .L.,..h.i°h they
e
excem for the present year 1,255,0001„ whith, although migtht:rtdrera:a• dopy eonaktara One wactaaa tha that otoT, ---7, met&
large,wee ime them " valMmed The number of men allya
determined two years ago to furnish tire-a—ddliffithal
"led in 1818450 (yeah and hie) wee 113,974, and the 4WD." sum demanded by the government for the fortilleatiens,
her in the prima year 124,795, an increase of 10,821. Be ,
then sthtth the number of ride which lid been macho- they should matte" the "vim ►t in Vvem The
lured, sad the number in store at haws or abroad, sad that 0..,..ther.00nr,..r. w_r_thi._—.....thl....houij mm.„13.....t may,
.."... eivwrthuthmie
of Armstrong guns of all aims, and after those preliminary """'"":."'ha'at'"a-0111—ri'dyrai;',7h;Er '
observations proceeded to explain the nature and he r, extensive
.. . . ~ landing estimated oast of the premised &Mileages.. If the arks • believe there le no deegeve• an enemy in
country, and that • Beet is quite sufficient for the defer*.
were completed epos the largest plan, the total cost, be '
med, would ha 6.700,0001.; but, with rasped to the Spithead ot our shorts ; and therefore we repudiate alto-
ther the plan embodied in the act of two
fares, those works had been suspended, and the gemmed ge d ref a furthar maw for it.
Ind thought it the most prudent cam in present mecum• ye•re age" and a y .
continuance and the completion of that pith, and
slam sot to renew them in the present year, bet to
pose tab decision until the subject had received odd= we will restoattinisittoh thie shape
th inhunwhichthighttaybtwdeferetsdaprior
light. They would therefore not resume the practical con- ° .'I and. • Leer of
t me
I)
(Hear, hem Ben
adoration of the question till next June, when they would by
logical
h' d musis
nwhichre6n reasoning.
lt would L the
there was •t u course, • thouf t ,
communicate their decision to the house, and afford it au
meet unreasonable and the most absurd which it wee possible
opportunity of expressers an opinion upon the subject. In
conclusion, he expressed • hope that the committee would for_the wit of man to conceive, and that wea soy,
_" W_ •
not alter the drake of last year. will not come to any decision now—we will stop au the
Mr. BRIGHT withal to ask • question. He had not works at present in progress, leave them an finished, and
understood what the right hon. gentleman said with regerd take no means to bring the matter to • practical decision,".
TM& was a °muse scarcely !erosible for any man of me
to the central arsenal, but there were words referring to it in
the resolution. Was be to understand that those words were judgment adopt, -
y then:solution of his on. friend, who said it was not yet
to be streak out ? This question of the central arsenal
had never been thoroughly daussed by the house, and so expedient to proceed with the construction of the ProPmed
forts at the shoal at Soithead, or with the additional
determination had been ma to apes it. He presumed the defames at Portsmouth, kiyowath; ad Dover. They were
words right hoe. gentleman would have so objection to strike the
the great naval arsenals, and the object of the proposed de-
words out of the resolution. If the right hoo. gentleman,._ _to ....
had dose with the Pendant forth the same that he had a'";',7;ittad"" aitrlvethar—' =•.) wThhereaboa_mtv nerevyttislauee built
had
dose with the Spitheed forts the ham probably would have raid that the nary. was 'our yam mama of- &geom. but
had not mesh trouble in the matter. (Hem-)
where would that defence bs if we allowed our naval
Sir G. 0. LEWIB —The title of the bill is to continue the anou. to be seised by the enemy ? (H., base,) All that
act ; and in the title of the act the words " neutral meal " need be mid DOW wu that the government plan had been
occurred ; but when we come to the vote, I do not profuse well moldered two yeas ago by competent engineers, and
to take any money tot the central armed. that it had received the sanction of the highest authorities.
Mr. BRIGHT—Then there is nothing to be done in the (Hear, hear.) His noble friend bad quoted opinions con-
matter this year? demnatory of each one of the forts he objected to, but
Sir G. O. LEWlS—Nothing. (Hear, hear.) if opiuions of that sort were to be held decisive of such •
Mr. OSBORNE moved, as an amendment to the resold• question, it was utterly impossible that any plan should
Lion, to leave out the words sitar " That," is order to add be carried into effect.
"considering the changes and improvements now in pro- Sir F. SMITH mid as the right hon. baronet had told
peen affecting the science of attack and defence, it is not at them that the works at the forte at Spiked were not to be
present expedient to proceed with the construction of the continued, it would be an useless waste of the time of the
proposed forts on the shoals at Spithead, or the additional committee to enter tato any dispersion with regard to them
defences at Portsmouth. Plymouth, and Dover reoem- at present. He was glad to hear the announcement, and he
mended by the commiasioneth appointed to cm:eider the believed the worth would ultimately be given up for ewer.
defences of the United Kingdom ; nod that, in ay general The outlay upon them would be an truism and wsstecul
system of national defence, the navy aboufd he expenditure of public money, bemuse the report teemed
regarded as the arm on which the country must with evidence showing that they could not stop a ship
mainly depend." The hon. member expressed s at the pawing by at night.
Vender' gives by Se OAm/is of the word " . ," Mr. H. A. BRUCE said he had bees many years of
that it meant • draught upon the Treasury ; this was not, opinion that it was esetesary to take stops for
he mid, his translation of the word. He thought this was the protection of our peat naval arsenals ; and
a proper time to consider the whole plan of these national he still retained (that belief, notwithrtmading that
defences, which had, in an evil hour, been brought before • great deal of the feeling which prevailed some time
the house. The sum originally estimated for those de- since on the subject of lemma was foolish and unfounded.
fume was 11,600,0001, and the home had bees told by The original votesforthe tortifications were carried by *Tee-
the first minister, in • hobgoblin speech, that money for wheloung majorities, and it appeared to be naworthy of the
time. defences mist be voted at once ; that they were house tote now vacillating when it was asked to undo all
neoestary for the immediate safety of the country ; and the: bad been done, and to render the large outlay already
he bad suggested 9,000,0001., while the then Efecretary incurred undue
for War (Lod Herbert) asked for oely 5,000,000). Mr. DIOBY SEYMOUR wished to ask the right hoe.
The home rotated ; but it had voted 2,000,0001. gentleman what was the amount of expense saved to the
and it was now naked for 1,200,0001. more. After a severely country by the withdrawal of the scheme respecting the
critical examination of the results of the experiment. at Spithead forte.
Shosbneyness, and of the conclusions drawn by the defence Sr G. C. LEWIS, in reply to the question, which hsA
commissioners and the government, sod urging the super. been put to him, said, first, that the plan of the government
fluitrof forts for the protection of dockyards, since ship had not been altered since he had given notice of his re•o•
would never attack forte, but would shell the yards at • lotion ; and secondly, Wit the amount which had been
dames, he called attention to the position of the country taken for each harbour, including Portamouth, would be
as to naval artillery, Warring that we had no nerd gun for found in • schedule to lie sot ; and the sum taken for the
those quarters at the peewit moment but the old 68-pounder. Spithead forte was included io that list.
He examined the evidence taken by the commissioners Mr. VIVIAN said his opinion was adverse to that view,
on the subject of the Armstrong guns, including that which sues persons considered to be economy, but which he
of Sir W. Armstrong himself, who confessed that he thought penny wise and pound foolish. Hs thought his
halt bad so experiesce of their effect beyond 300 yards. hon. friend the member for Liaised had been guilty of as
He insisted that the house had yet no approximate estimate omission in he entertaining speech—namely, that although
of the Mai of the forts, which would come to something he found great fault with the government scheme, be pro-
like 20,000,0001., and asked whether it would melte such posed no plan of his own instead. (Hear.) If he bad thins
a profligate expenditure of money. Then, by the original down with a wellmatured seam the bones could have
plan, the forte were to be of petite ; now they me So be compared his proposition with that of the goverment
of iron. As to the land defences, under the new condition. (Hear, bear.) It appeared to him that there was now
of war, while we had the command of the Channel, the pother power in the hands of any biotite power of 000cen-
landing of • military force upon our shores was an impose- mating • fleet upon our chores than had ever existed
bility, and to garrison there forts would require 95,000 men. hitherto. If the question were one as between ships and
He alleged sposific objections to some of the fortifications, farts, it was clear that ships wore out, and forts did not,
particularly to those at Dover, contending that, so far from therefore there was no question as to the eoosomy of forts.
those forts being national defence., they would be national (Ham hear.) On these grounds he regretted that her
robberies of the public purse. The hon. gentleman oar. Majesty's government bad given way on the question of the
bead : I find that the number of Armstrong guns Spithead forts.
contemplated by the commissioners for Spithead 1.915, while Sr S. NORTHCOTE said—Had the Spithead forts
the total number required for the dockyards will be noesli and the central meal been persisted io, he should
than3,72l. The costof these guns must be enormous—in fat have been prepared to vote with the liro member
we do not know what the estimate may amount to. (Hear, for Liskeard, but as those portions of the scheme were do-
hoer.) We are told that the government are acting in eluded, it bemuse a question what ought to be done with
this matter under the advice el • military commission, but the wataintler. The right boa. gentleman said that the
I think the house should not rest implicitly upon the de- gummiest bad entered into contracts to the amount of
eision of military authorities. (Hear, leer.) The late Sir : 3,300,0001. on account of those works, oat of
Robert Peel said, in 1850, that if the amity would have' which they had been already empowered to raw
all its fortifications Or every part of the world kept in • ' 2,000,0001., which, with the 1,200,0001. sow,
state of perfect repair no amount ef annual revenue would i was almost the entire amount of those contract,. If the
suffice, ad that if they adopted the opinions of military details of those contracts were before them they might
men, naturally anxious for the security of every available , possibly thinkbt right to votethemotisy,but at present they
point, they would overwhelm the country with taxes in a , wenasked tovote it in sad without security that
time of peace. (Her, hear.) At this moment they are ,it would be devoted to • cow • of the works already
proposing to overwhelm the country with texas in a time of , contracted for, or that the government might not enter
peace. (Cries of "No.") I may answer iota words of • living, into other contracts involving the country in farther ex.
member of the late Sr R. Peel's pithiest, who said it we. . pease, which would have to be provided for hermits:.
melees to blink the quake, that throughout the country , That was not the principle upon which the Haw of Com-
et large, end within the precincts of the Home of Com- , moss was accustomed to vote the public money, and he
mom, the support of public economy had been relaxed,' might add that his vote would depend upon the explanations
that charges had been entered into after the slightest ax-' he might receive as to the extent of expenditure in which
ammatios, and that unless • camp took place the' they me to be involved, and the 11=1 to
booms of the matey
_would be trot into • stated , which the money was to he applied. 1 . be
&biota tembision. Thee wag the *Ma of the present should require from the government • Pin*
Chancellor of the Exchequer in 1859—(Item, hur)—sad I : that the money should not be expended upon say now
sow ask whether we are biker off in 18831 No. If . works, but that they would oonie to parliament, and, laying
we go on from day to day tab' these mannous sums of , full particulars before it, obtain its moot before any new
may for fortilkations, I may my Ia the language of the : contuses for work" were entered iota Was the govern-
Cbeeceller of the Exchequer, '• Yea will iambi the fame meat brought forward a scheme for faculties expediters
of this country is inextricable Meillalle Hoar, bear, and for new works, or any ether object,, mid proposed additional
laughter.) Ia the third report, the say that thus to meet it. the tom bad sense sem* thee at sil
the navy Is the ens on which the mostry iota mainly rely event. they believed that expeditors to be meneenny. Bat
kw be aims. Well, the corned of the Chanel is our here there Wallee et* asperity —there ma per thideses that
real menrity—(terr, hear)—and we are nd to mum that ministers eresidend this pia of motional defame absobately
our navel impreinsey bee been lest. I math that the wwwmwy ;• on the contrary, the alters/tom they had them-
eless.. whisk tea taken pies in naval Welke is greatly is seem iamb in tbe plan daub mist Ineemblksward, two