The Express.
London, England, 1863-07-21 00:00:00

friend's speech was that mere diplomatic representa-
tions were unavailing unless followed by force.
(Hear, hoar. He seemed to me to deuy the power
of public emotion. Now I hare always thought—
and the praise which began to my noble friend for having
obtained the otheurrineee of most of the States of Europe
in the representations made to Ruses seems to imply that
he also thinks—that the force of public opinion is often
almost equal to the force of arms ; and there is no doubt
that the tome of public opinion is • most powerful thrice
upon the conduct of men and of governments. That which
has happened is • striking proof of this. In the demotions
which took due In 1881 and I&P2 the Russian government
of that day denied that we had any right to remonstrate
with them on the affairs of Poland, founding ourselves on
the treaty of 1815. They said that Russia had recognised
• after the revolution, that that conquest annulled all
the engagements of 1815, that we were thee interfering in a
matter which coarsened the internal affairs of Russia, and
that we had no right to meddle with what belonged to the
Emperor alone. Now the ground taken by Russia is
entirely different. Yielding to the joint opinions
of the great powers of Europe the says she
is willing to enter into a discussion of the affairs
of Poland within the limits and no the grounds of
the treaty of Vienna. Well, 1 say that that is a great
step gained, and it affords a prospect of a better condition
of things in Poland than the former ground taken by
Russia entitled us to expect. (Hear, hear.) It is quite
true, as the hon. member for King's County (Mr. Hennessy)
said, that the stipulations of the treaty of Vienna were two-
fold, the lint paragraph relating to the kingdom
at Poland, and the other relating to the Polish sub-
jects of Austria, Russia, and Prime ; but as Poked
was a separate kingdom attached to Russia, it
is quite clear that the paragraph related to Russian subjects
sad to the ancient kingdom of Poland, which had been is-
corporated with the Russian empire. Now, it is mid that
England was at the time of the treaty of Vienna mainly in-
strumental in giving Poland to Ruth& The fact is, as will
be seen by deepatche-, which have been kid on the table of
the house, that the Emperor of Russia bad a large army in
Poland, and insisted upon keeping it. It was not then that
England gave Poland to Russia, but Rath& had occupied and
conquered Poland and refused to give it up ; and the treaty
of Vienna was the best arrangement which at that time it
wan thought possible to make. But that troth,' was made
by the Emperor of Russia in the interest of Poland. He
was then very mach guided by the Prince Casatorieki at
that time, and he certainly contemplated giving to Poland a
very liberal constitution, and intended to annex to that
kingdom a large portion of those ancient Polish provisos,
which bad been ircorporated with Russia, and now
form part of the Russian empire. It is said that it
was impossible to suppose that a free, that is to say a per-
liamentery, constitution for Poland could co-exist with
despotic authority in Russia. Ido not the the force of
that assertion. It was not incompatibility that prevented
the constitution from working ; it was the arbitrary ten-
dencies of the Grand Duke Constantine of that
day, who was constituted governor of Poland, and
the change of feeling on the part of the Ros-
man Emperor, by which the constitution was sus-
mended, the parliament was prevented from meeting,
ad a tyrannical government was established instead of that
liberal and free constitution which it was intended by the
treaty of Vienna to eetablisb. That led to the revolution
of 1831, sod that revolution was created and carried into
effect by the large Polish army which the Emperor of Russia
established at the time when he was desirous of giving
liberty to Poised. Well, then, we are told by
my right hon. friend that there is no alternative
now but either remaining perfectly passive and saying
nothing at all, or insisting on the no-establishment of
Poland upon its ancient and original buds. If all the
powers of Europe were prepared immediately to go to war
with Russia te compel her to restore everything that has
been taken from Poland, then I could understand that it
might be thought desirable that the object of such • com-
bination should be the re-establishment of the kingdom
'of Poland as it originally existed ; but it is
quite clear that that cannot be accoroplished
by persuasion, but only by force. The only grouted on
which we are entitled ea a matter of international right to
speak to Ruses with regard to her treatment of Poland is
the treaty of Venue. That treaty entitles us to rcqiiire
that certain arrangements contemplated by it should be esta-
I blishad for the kingdom of Poland, and that certain arraoge
meats should he estabbthed with respect to the Polish pro-
vinces. The moment you gobeyond that and saitßussia to coeati-
tute Poland as &separate kingdom such as it was before the
partition, you have no ground on which such a demand can
be made, and such a demand could only be enforced by war,
and by successful war. The powers of Europe are oot pre-
to take that course ; but the right hoc. gentleman
pre-
pared
having argued at considerable length that you ought to go to
war with Russo for the purpose of than great change,
his resolution does not tally with his spethh,
because it amounts to this—that we should dodos, to Russia
that the treaty of Vienna in regard to Poland is at an end,
and that we should therefore direst ourselves of the right
which we now possess of remonstrating with Russia with
regard to the treatment of Poland. I cannot see how we
could amid the Poles by such a course. We are now en-
titled to represent to Russia that the has not fulfilled
certain engagements undertaken by that treaty,
that she has OM given to Poland that con-
stitution which the treaty has distinctly stipulated
should be the link between Poland and the imperial crown.
We are entitled to make that representation, and to say that
Russia, by the second paragraph of the treaty, is bound to
do that which Austria and Prussia have done for Galicia
and Posen—that is, to give a national representation, sod
national institutions to the Polish subjected Russia. But
the moment we declare to Russia that the treaty is at an
end, the Emperor of Russia will say, " I accept your con-
dition ; I bold Poland no longer by treaty, but by conquest
it is mine by right ; it is mine by the right of
the sword ; touch it who chooses. I have a
right to keep it without any condition whatever, and, by
your own admission, to regard it as any other part of the
great empire of Russia." it seems to me that se far trees that
PM.. being an advantage to the Poles, we should by adopt-
ing it baud over the Poles tied hand and foot to be dealt
with according to the pleasure of General Mouravieff, or
any other person whom the Emperor might appoint. (Hear.
hear.) I should hope, therefore, that the house would
not agree to the motion of my right bon. friend. It seems
to me to be • most lame and impotent conclusion. It has been
well said by my right hon. hued the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer that it was impossible for her Majesty's govern-
ment to remain quite silent, and to do nothing in this
Polish question. At the bezianing of the year the opinion
of the house, the opinion of the country, and the opinion of
Europe were loudly expressed in favour of some representa-
tion being made to Russia, and I hold it is quite at va-
riance with the common transactions of human affairs to
say that you are never to remonstrate or to negotiate,
unless you an prepared immediately to have re-
course to arms, if you do not obtain by
negotiation the object you are endeavouring to accomplish.
That would put an end to all intercourse between nations.
We know that much is gained by these negotiations, and
without recourse to those violent measures which my right
hon. friend recommends. Her Majesty's government did
that which I think WY required by the public opinion of
this country, and in the debates in this house. We did that
which we had a right to do. We invoked the treaty of Vienna,
and we obtained the concurrence of France, Austria, Spain,
Portugal, Italy, Turkey, Belgium, and Sweden, who all
concur with us in urging upon Russia a milder course io
rived to Poland. It is said it would not give satisfaction
to Poland if that result were obtained. I cannot see that
there is any just foundation for that opiniou. The erudi-
tion of the Pules would be very much improved if they
could be re-established in the condition in which they were
to be placed according to the treaty of Visalia. But it is
said that we have suggested an arrangement which would be
perfectly impracticable, viz—an armistice. Now can any
man see the cruelties which are committed—l fear on both
sides—in this war, the dreadful waste of life, and the semi.
lice of some of the most distinguished members of the Polish
nation, and not wish to witness that lamentable struggle
suspended even for a time, if it were not put a stop
to altogether? If it were impended for •
time I cannot but think that negotiatioos would
intervene and a Baal settlement prevent the re
currence of this contest. It is said, however, can it be
done? Well, I think that has been answered in the course
of this debate. If the Russian government, which I am
sorry to say they have not, had agreed to the suspension of ,
this unhappy struggle, we have been told, by what has been
supposed to be an authority, that this revolutionary govern- I
metit in Poland his made it known that it would agree to • I
conference, provided it were represented in that conference. '
Those who had authority to say that, those who had I
moms to those reprithotatives of Polish liberty on that
point -could they not obtain from that same authority—that
secret authority, whatever it is—some engagement that if
the Russian government declared itself ready to agree to
suspend hostilities, that authority would enter into some
corresponding arrangement, which would put an end to
such a dreadful sacrifice of life and effusion of blood? I
thick that was worth attempting. I think we should
have been neglecting our duty if we had not
made that one of the proposals, and left to
Russia the responsibility of rejecting it. We have done
our duty ; and though there are other points, some of which
the Russian government have said they are already deter-
mined to carry into effect, and others which they are also
disposed to carry out as soon as tranquillity is restored—l
think that, however advantageous those points may be, it
seems to me that there can be no successful negotiation for
the purpose of carrying out any of those points. unless by
some means or other we can stop the sacrifice of life in this
struggle which it is so painful to witness, and which seems
to be extending day by day and acquiring greater range
than before. (Hear, hear.) lam sure the house does not
expect her Majesty's government to state what course they
will follow in this matter. The only thing I can state is,
that as we have made our communication with the
Russian government in concert with the govern-
ments of Austria and Francs, it will be our
duty to communicate with those governments on the
answers which each of the three power. have received from
the Russian government, and I am persuaded that the
course we shall afterwards take will be each as will meet
with the approbation of this house and the country.
Mr. HORSMAN said be quite agreed with the noble lord
that her Majesty's government, having received the Russian
answer only that morning, could not be expected to give
their answer to it that night, and therefore, with the leave
of the house, be would beg leave to withdraw his motion.
The motion was then by leave withdrawn.
The report of supply, and also the report of ways and
means, were brought up and agreed to.
TELEGRAPHS BILL.
The Loads' arasedanenas on this ball ware real