The Express.
London, England, 1863-07-03 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, FRIDAY EVENING, JULY 3, 1863.

municatku been mule from the. French government to her
Majesty's government, inviting her Majesty s government te
coinhise with the French government in proposing media- '
tion, recognitico, intervention, or armistice. I stated ea
Tuesday evening that no such oommunkatiou had been
'made to prMajedy'sgovemment. 1 now repeat that state-
meat without equivocation, and in the broadest semis of
the words, that no such communication has up to this time
—I mean, since last November—been made by the Emperor 1
of the French to her Majesty's government (Hear, bur.) I
was blamed the other evening for not having stated that •
communication had been made to the noble earl at the heed
of the Foreign-office, which in another place has been
acknowledged to have been made. The fact is, I was not
at the time aware that that communication was
made, it having been made late in the afternoon. I now
repeat that Baron Gros, hearing the rumour that was in
circulation, that the hon. member bad stated that com-
munication had been made by the Emperor of the French
to her Majesty's government, had come of his own accord
to Earl Russell and Aided emphatically that he bad made
no communication whatever, and had received no orders to
make any. (Hear, hear.) I further state that Lord Cowley
had no knowledge of any such communication, and that no
such had been made to him. Therefore I again say,
without equivocation, that no such communication was
made since lest November to her Majesty's govern-
ment. It I. well known that M. Drouyn de Lhuys
wrote • dispatch to her Majesty's government
to invite the United States government to claim as
armistice, in coder that terms of accommodation might be
arranged between the contending parties. Although that
communication was dated the lOth of October it was not
made to her Majesty's government till the 10th of Novem-
ber. That despatch was read to her Majesty's government,
but no copy of it was given. That despatch was alluded to
in papers laid on the table of this house. In the first para-
graph of them it was stated that about that period, the
13th of November, Count Flahault came to the Foreign-
office and reed • despatch relating to the war in North
America, but gave no copy of it, and that a very unusual
proceeding was taken by the French government with re.
spent to it, for before her Majesty's government bad sent
any' answer, the proposal huff, a copy of which bad
not been given to her Majesty's government, was published
in the Moniteur of the 13th of NOVOMber. (Haar, hear.)
I hold cos my band • copy of that paper, containing the
despatch. In it was stated that he was to read the de-
spatch to her Majesty's government, but it did not say that
he wu to leave • copy. An answer to that proposal, in the
shape of a despatch to Lord Cowley, was sent off on the
same day as the despatch appeared in the Monireur, and it
was delivered to M. Drouyn de Limy*. It was considered
so important that the truth should be known, and taking
into account that the French government bad taken the
unprecedented course of publishing their despatch without
giving • copy of it to her Majesty's government, that
her Majesty 'a government decided to publish the
answer in the Gazette. Accordingly, on the 14th,
the same day on which it was delivered, the answer wu
published. (Hear, hear.) The French government ex-
plained why they had published their despatch. They
stated that various rumours were abroad, that the facts
were much exaggerated, and that they bad taken this
unusual course to enlighten the public mind on the truth.
On the 15th, namely, the day after, a despatch was sent to
Mr. Stewart, our chargé d'affaires, but it was received
by Lord Lyons, who had then returned to his peat. It is
important that I should read the despatch we sent :—" I en-
close for your information a copy of the London Gazette
of last evening, containing an answer from her Majesty's
government to the proposal of the French government that
we should join in advising an armistice." net was all that
was written • no copy of the French proposal was sent,
because her Majesty's government had not a copy. (Hear,
hear, and sheen.) Oa the 28th November Lord Lyons
wrote to Lord Rummell that intelligence of the proposal and
answer had been received by telegraph through the Prom
Oa the 25th, and not on the 27th, the text of Earl Ruud'',
answer had been received by telegram from Halifax.
Laid Lyons' despatch has been laid on the table
of the holm this session, and will be found in the
first set of papers relating to North America.
I may say that all the papers in the United States had pub-
lished the maths text of the proposal and answer;_ that they
was commented on and • ened great interest throughout
the United States. M. Mercier bad received • copy of the
proposal from Y. Drolly° de Lhuys on the 22nd, but had
not communicated it ; on the 25th, the day of the arrival of
the !nail-boat, M. Mercier went to Mr. Seward, and com-
municated to him the text of the French proposal. So cau-
tious was Lord Lyons on the matter that he did not broach
the subject. If hon. members will refer to the papers
they will see that the let of December was the first
time when Mr. Seward spoke to Lad Lyons on the subject
of the proposal. Lord Lyons wrote on the 2nd," My Lord—
Mr. Seward, without my having mentioned it, spoke to me
yesterday. of the proposal made by France to Great Britain
and Russia to unite in levities the belligerents of this coun-
try to agree to an armistice." I hope the house has followed
me with regard to dates, u they are most important. What
I have stated will prove this—fint, that not the English but
the French government published the dispatch before an
answer was given to it by her Majesty's government ;
secondly, that it was not Lord Lyons but M. Mercier who
communicated to Mr. Seward the copy of the proposal;
thirdly, that it was Mr. Seward who spoke to Lord Lyons
first so this subject, and not Lord Lyons to Mr. Seward.
Having given this explanation, I will add nothing to the
facts, but will leave the house and the country to draw their
own coaclosioss. (Cheers.)
Mr. ROEBUCK—I wish to ask another question of the
boo. gentleman, and it is this—whether an application was
not made by the French government in the early part of the
spring, between February and April, very mach to the same
effect, and whether the transaction to which I referred was
not that application.
Mr. LAYARD—Sir, I have requested every search to be
made in the Foreign-office for every despatch on the subject.
Every despatch has been looked over, but I can find no other
except those I have named.
Lord R. CECIL—Was there any verbal communication?
Mr. LAYARD—I have stated to the house what is my
solemn conviction us the entire matter. (Cheers.)
POLAND.

Mr. BENTINCK inquired of the boo. member for King's
Comity whether it was his intention to bring forward the
motion with respect to Poland of which he bad given notice,
sad if so no what day.
Mr. HENNESSY—I believe that Earl Rumen has stated in
another place that if • reasonable time should elapse with-
out the arrival of the answer of Ruasia to the joint notes of
the three Powers, he woad place the p•gen before the
houses of parliament. I think that • reeimmable time may
be considered to have already shooed, and that perhaps M a
day or two the government will lay the papas' before the
house. When the papers are before us, I think the micas-
sion may properly arise.
THE AMERICAN DEBATE.

Mr. ROEBUCK asked the government to appoint • day
on which the adjourned debate oe his motion in favour of the
recognition of the Confederate States might be resumed.
He was informed that the government were inclined to
give him Monday week, and, rf so, be was quite willing to
swept it.
Sir G. GREY—My noble friend at the bead of the govern-
ment is willioe to give Monday week, should the state of
the public business admit of such an arrangement, but I
would rather leave the final decision on the point until Mon-
dav next, when I hops the sable viscount will be in his place.
Mr. BRIGHT regretted that the debate could not be re-
sumed and oucloded in time for the next mail. It was
most desirable with regard to the feeling of both belligerent
parties that the result should acuimpeny the report of the
discussion serum the Atlantic. (Near, hear)
PURCHASE OF THE EXHIBITION BUILDING.
The house then west into committee of supply, Mr.
KAMM in the ehair.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved •
vote of 106,000 f. for the purchase and part alteration of the
Exhibition buildiog, at South Kenaington. If the house
acceded to this proposal the right hon. gentleman said
he should then give notice to introduce • bill to authorise

the separation of certain eollectiooa in the British
Museum. It would also be necessary. when any re-
solution wee tahoe for providing additional scoots-
modation for the natural history collections of the Museum,
to prepare • separate estimate for the enlarge-
ment of that establishment on it. present site.
There were three urgent public want, that had to be
provided for—namely, the National Portrait Gallery, the
Marcum of Paten* and the Natural History Collections—
and there wore no means of doiug this except by the appro-
priation of • pert of the estate at Kensington. The pro-
posal of the government involved the
.p.reservation of the

Picture _ io tho Exhibition buffalo', which would
afford more than ample accommodation for the 'asthma! r
. -

the present building had come, be would read part of se
advertisemeet which had appeared in the Daily Arens. This
was shortly what wee stated :—A grand ffte and fancy fair
will be held, in Aid of the Hospital for Incurables, in the
building of the International Exhibition, kindly lent for
the purpose. Among the popular &mammal:le in the build-
ing may be seen the only true exponenta of the Staksperean
drama, in their Richardsonian booth and Thespian temple—
(laughter)—in the interior of which will be presented the
spectacular, tentacular, vernacular, taternacular, tragic,
sad emotional tableau of Brigaiva the Brigand, or the
Spirit and the Proof—(laaghter)—elteraeting with the
ultramonie, subageous, aquaria, domestic drama of the
Port Admiral, or the Mysterious Mariner and the
Rightful Heir.* (Much laughter.) He did not know
whether this Mow was under the patronage of
the prime minister, and had the sanction of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer ; but no doubt it was praise-
worthy
of the contractors to devote the building to the '
benefit of incurables. (Laughter.) He had heard it stated
that the building was to be kept up to carry out the plans
laid down by the Prince Consort. He (Lord Elcho) could
only say that he was moat ready to consider any plans
which came recommended by his name ; but he could not
see how this building would promote such a purpose ; a
building which the late Prince Consort had never
seen, and also never entered. He (Lord &oho) was
convinced that if the government wanted to make art end
science detestable to the House of Commons and the coun-
try, they could not go shout it in a better way than by
attempting to cram down their throats these sheds, which
were incapable of improvement, and had been condemned
by. the voice of the civilised world. M. Merimee, a distin-
guished friend of the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of
the Exchequer, said if they wished to be reminded of the faults
of architecture, they would preserve the building, as the Spar-
tans showed the drunken helots to th eir children. (Laughter.)
He hoped the committee would support him in rejecting a
proposal which, to use the words of the petition of the Insti-
tute of Architects, could only result in disappointment and
discredit to the country. (Cheers.)
Mr. TITE could assert that many architects, members
of the institute, were engaged on the various juries, and
from visiting the Exhibition daily were intimately ac-
quainted with the whole structure, and when the institute
were asked their opinion of the building they advised a
reference of the point to a committee. He (Mr. Tits)
thought a more prudent course could not have been taken.
The result was embodied in a petition, which now laid on
the table of the house.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—How keg
were they in the building'
Mr. TITE—I do not know.

The CHANCELLOR ;iiiie EXCHEQUER—OnIy once.
Mr. TlTE—They were there long enough to form an
opinion. As to Captain Fowke, he never spoke against
him on any occamon. Doubtless be was a man of
great talent, but on this occasion be had stepped out of hie
jrofessioo. As to the insinuation that there was any dirty
ealousy in the maxis of the architects generally against
Captain Fonts, be utterly repudiated it. He (Mr. Tile)
was in favour of the purchase of the land, but he considered
the buildings on it a blot and a reproach.
Mr. BENTlNCKwouldsak the Chanoellor of the Exchequer
whether the course be now proposed wan in accordance
with his position of legitimate guardian of the public puree,
and in accordance also with all those denunciations against
extravagant expenditure with which he had so often
charmed the ears of the house? (Hear, hear.) But the
right hon. gentleman now came forward as the member of
the government to make one of the most wasteful, extra-
vagant, and unjustifiable proposals which were ever
submitted to the House of Commons. (Hear,
hear.) No man would be able to calculate
the cost of the future, or say that millions of mosey would
not be required to carry out the scheme of the government.
Sir J. SHELLEY said he had always supported the Ken-
sington Institution, believing that no other institution had
afforded so much amiummeut and instruction to the people,
and be chi regret being one of the majority who voted for
the purchase of the 17 acres of land for the benefit of that
institution. But up to that time the house had bad no ides
that the contractors were not under a covenant to remove
the International Building. (Hear bear.) Although he bad
a strong feeling in favour of the Sentb Kensington Museum,
be could not conscientiously vote with the government on
this occasion, and he should be prepared to meet on all future
000111i01111 the difficulties which had been foreshadowed by
the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Mr. COWPER said the commissioure of the Exhibition
of 1851, who were proprietors of the land, covenanted with
the commissioners of Exhibition off 1862 that the land
should be cleared within six months after the conclusion of
the Exhibition, and they naturally summed that some legal
document had been signed by the contractors to give effect
to tee covenant ; and it had only been lately discovered that
the commissioners of 1862 had failed to make any agreement
whereby the contractors were bound to clear the land within ,
the specified time. (Hear, hear.) If his right hon. friend
had been aware of the fact when he Introduced the vote, he
would have mentioned it. But they found now that
the contractors were left to the common law of
the land as to when they should remove the
building, though there was no doubt that they could be
compelled to remove it. He thought bin noble friend, Lord
Hobo, had failed to grapple with the motion. He thought,
on the score of economy, the committee would do
wisely in accepting this vote. He trusted that they would
not refuse it, so as to let the land be vacant, for if it were
vacant all kids of plans would be proposed, and no one
knew the expense that would be ultimately incurred.
In the course of the discussion which followed, the vote
was supported by Lord H. Lennox, and opposed by Mr. C.
Bulls& and Mr. Gregory.
On Mr. Gregory resuming his seat, and Sir S. NOTITHCOTZ
rising to address the committee, the manifestations of im-
patience on the part of hon. members were carried to such a
height that the attempts of the hon. baronet to obtain a
hearing were utterly in vela. He concluded with moving
the adjournment of the debate.
Mr. LOWE rose amidst great clamour to explain, in an-
swer to the hon. member for Taunton. He said that the
Exhibition building was erected under an engagement with
the Society of Arts, that the galleries were to be
reserved for fetus exhibitious. But this arraoge-
meet was to be dependent on the success of the Exhibition.
If there was no surplus the building was to revert to the
commissioners. (Amidst the great uproar that prevailed
this was understood to be the purport of the right hon. gen-
tleman's statement.)
Mr. DISRAELI rose, hut amidst the cries of "Divide,"
" Osborne," " Question," " Chair," and the general excite-
ment, was unable to obtain a hearing.
SirS. NORTHCOTE and Mr. BUNT also were inaudible.
Lord 8.. CECIL said that as a very keen opponent to the
scheme be begged the committee to allow it to be discussed
in a legitimate manner.

The CHAIRMAN having at length put the question of
reporting progress,
Mr. DISRAELI again rose. He said he did not wish to
offer any remarks on the qinistioo Well, but to offer with
humility some advice to the committee as to the course
they were pursuing. He was not responsible for the divi-
sion which had taken place on this question, and which
both sides of the house appeared to think precipitate.
(Crew of "No, no," and cheers.) What he wished to point
out was the remarkable position in which they were
placed. The government had brought forward a measure
of considerable importance. No gentleman on that side
of the house had yet spoken, thoogh they had been chal-
lenged to do so. His hon. friend the member for Stamford
had risen to give his reasons for offering to the com-
mittee an amendment of some momenti(oh, oh)
—namely, that the question should be referred
to a committee of the house. (Cries of "06, ob," and
interruption.) There were reasons of peat weight to be ad-
vanced in support of the amendment, and it had been met
in a spirit not at all in minion with parliamentary debates
in general. (Cr.. of " Chair," and " Divide.")
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY was understood to say that the
amendment was not in order.

Mr. DISRAF.LI rid that his hon. friend's amendment
virtually involved a reduction of the vote.
Sir R. T. CLIFTON said when the entire vote was re-
puenut to the house there mold be no reduction of it.
The motion was negatived.
Sir S. NORTHOOTE moved the reduction of the vote by
25,0001.—(N0, eo.)—in order that the government might
have the opportunity of purchasing the building—(No, no.)
—end that steps might be taken either et the initiative of
the government or by motion of the boom to appoint a com-
mittee. (Here the hon. baronet's voice was drowned in the
murmurs of the house.]
Mr. HENLEY wished to state the reasons for the vote be
was about to give. He came down to the house with every
disposition to hear something in the speech of the Chancellor
of the Exchequer which would enable him to support the
proposition of the government, bet from the beginning to
the end of the remarks of the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
the @poach of the right hoe, gentleman had the effect of
completely removing any or every doubt he might have bad
before. (Cheers and laughter.) He felt compelled to vote
against the proposition of* the government and the mead-
meat of the hon. baronet. (Much cheering.) The amend-
moot would pledge the house to en expenditure of which
they could not see the end—(cheera)—ot which the go-
verornent bad no plans, end of which be was compelled to say
that thecourae they bad taken with regard to theland, made
him suspect everything bad. (Continued cheering.) The
statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer with regard
to the land had raised a multitude of difficulties,which might
be real or imaginary, but of which they had not heard one
word when they were asked to vote the purchase mosey.
What was worn, the proposal for the purchase was enclosed
in a joint estimate, and the entire money was asked et once ;
without waning, the Prime Minister divided the vote into
two ; but pm no inkling that there would be these difficul-
ties attendant on the purchase. But in what position did
the proposition of the government leave them. It took the
rough shell of the buikbeg, and proposed to occupy tg acres of
the building, sad to band over the entire to be acted on by
gentlemen of taste or no taste. (Laughter.) It was curious to
deal in this manner with buildings by the acre—(hear, bear)
—but they had, no security whatever but that the whole
matter might be handed over to the meet expensive style.
(Cheers.) The Chancellor of the Exchequer reed a letterl
in which it was stated that this bundle; wee susceptible of
great ornamentation. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Henley) onto
saw a mountebank with a black women—Qatighter)—who,
be said, was susceptible of much paint and ernameat.
(Laughter.) He could make her white ; be could
make her red ; but do what he would he could
not make a handsome woman of her. (Much laughter.)
So the rght hoe. gentleman, while be could make hie build-
ing like the unhappy black woman, could not make it hand-
some. (Much cheering.) It was said how cheap the home
got the buildings of four-and-alall laws; but the partisan
vas something like that of a mea boy* ea Moto of 1004 '

-- - -
a year very cheap at 1,0001. ; bat he was bound rations
tontine to keep up an expensive fudge • end so those 12 acre
were to be kept up. (Cheers.) He Would vote against the
proposal in order that he might give the government time
with their heads fres to see their way and point out how
thews btuldings could be usefully applied.
After • few words from Sir M. Pero, which the cheering
rendered hiandible,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQITER said it was
absolutely necessary, after what had just been said, that be
should say • few words. No waived self-love on the part
of the government would have induced them to decline to
accede to the amendment proposed by the hon. baronet.
He did not, however, see any indications on the part of the
committee that the amendment would be likely to give
satisfaction. The result must be, if the amendment were
retained, that the committee would arrive at a decision of
which it would be difficult to understand the meaning. It was
better to endeavour to be clear thenceforward. It would then
be better for the general convenience that the amendment
should be withdrawn. There were two points to which the
right hon. gentleman referred in terms of undeserved seve-
rity. He said that the government had practised some
concealment with respect to the difficulties which must
erne in consequence of their having purchased the land.
(Hear, hear.) Now these difficulties were in the main
of a nature which was as patent to any one in the house as
to him. (No, no.) It was gmite true that on the very last
occasion when it occurred to his mind that there
would be • certain additional amount of diffi-
culties in consequence of the want of • @pea&
contract with the contractors, he took the earliest
opportunity to elate that the government had not
examined the subject, (" Oh, oh.") It had no relation to
their proposal, but it had a relation to the proposal which
was premed on them in that house, and to which the go-
vernment acceded out of respect to this home. (" Ott,
oh," and cheers.) That question was • very limited matter ;
they would not be in possession of the ground till 1865.
Whet he had stated was, that even with • contract it would
be very difficult to obtain possession of the land in 1864, but
he never meant to impute that gentlemen like Mews. Belk
and Lucas would make a vexations exercise of their power.
He estimated that they would act like men of business, and
endeavour to obtain • proper market for their materials.
The main difficulty arose not out of the want of • contract,
but out of something as to which the right hon. gentleman
was as capable of judging as he was. (Criers of
" Divide.") The right honourable gentleman stated
that the government had no proposal to offer
of a clear and distinct character. He (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer) contended that the proposals of the government
were perfectly clear and distinct. They proposed to dad
with 4) acres of the land, and to apply the money voted
for the purpose indicated by the vote. They further pro-
pared to reserve the purchase of the 14 acres, forming the
remainder of the land, for the future consideration of the
hones. It involved no plan whatever, and if the house
determined thereafter that the bnildiogs upon the 12)
acres should be removed, they could be removed, sad •
considerable sum of money would be thereby secured.
(Loud cries of " Divide.")
Sir a NORTIICOTE, who was met on rising with
general cries of "Oh," " Divide " and other manifesta-
tions of impatience, said that acting on the advice of his
friends he should withdrew his amendment, reserving to
himself the right hereafter of submitting it to the com-
mittee. . .

The CHAIRMAN then put the question that •
sum not exceeding 105,0001. be granted for the
purchase of the existing building at Remington,
and for repairing, altering, and improving the same.
Comparatively few members answered in the affirmative ;
the " Noes^ resounded from all parte of the house, and the
response was followed by • cheer. The division then took
place, with the following result :
For the vote
Against 287-166
The announcement of the numbers wee received wit► loud
and long continued cheering.