The Express.
London, England, 1852-06-16 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JUNE 16, 1852.

the inconvenience and hardship of this provides that he i peace with all the world ; you are providing for
announced has intention to depart from if. With regard to 1 • peace establishment. I say that that peace este!)•
the number of men proposed to be raised there seemed te i meat Myth ac, bars been effectually pnviged
,gue UM i g
be no iff.yence betweeu the two measures-Lithe amber ,
fixed by both beitai 81,000 men. The muster of men • • 4 ' If that duty had beet' performed, we
a kirk grey proposed to take was tee siMillies the shim should not ham had the *planation* of the noble marquis 1
Ism proposed by the late goverment; but takes irithin as to the number of days had the mambo,' of weeks which
broader limits, namely, betwilen elbeeme of eigh I
tesa It would take* train a reentit, and phlegm out the gallery
and thirty-tive. lie apps ' -vbie qno remain tattbe expectation as to what troops trailed Tor three weeks,
why the lice gave nruaut permitted substitutes iv as or six wefts, or 56 days, would be able be perform. We
the pre-sure which would ensue if the men were never have maintained up to this moment ',pew establish.
, a:rawn within the narrower limit of age proposed by 1 mint. That is the rest truth. (Hear, hear.) And I say
I them. But this system of substitutes would nut diminish we are now in that situation that it is difficult for us to
I the hardship with wiliCil the ballot would press on the men form au establishment such as this wintry alwees ought es
who were called on to serve. There were amongst the have; end such as this country always had tip to a certain
members of their lordship** house a few happy individuals period—e regular peace establishment, founded upon a
' who were within the age of service, but if they were liable, militia. It is true, my lords, there il your regular army;
and had been chosen by ballot, they could, without but I tell you that you have not now—yon have bad
inconvenience, find substitutes. The burden would fall for the last ten years—a sufficient number of men to relieve
on the poorest class within the limit of the age, and the sentries on duty in the different parts of the world.
in this respect he thought the bill of the pre- (Hear, bear) That has been the state of your peace
sent government was an improvement on that of the establishment foe the last ten years. You have been
' late government. As late as the year 1831, the county of carrying on war is all quieten of the globe, in
Middlesex had to raise between 2,000 and 3,000 men by different stations, by means of your peace eats-
ballot. These men had to be drawn from 18,000; and of blishment. You have the war at the Cape : this
these 18,0J0 persons, after going through the preliminary war has been carried on by means of your peace establish-
process of the ballot, between 10,000 and 16,000 were ex. meat. You have not, I tell you, any more men in your
enapted—(bear)—and out of the remaining 2,000 or 3,000, pesos establishment, as originally framed, than is sufficient
just 120 men, and no more, served in the militia, after all to relieve your centrism on different stations in all parts of
the expense and trouble of the ballot had been gone through the world, and to relieve the different regiments In the
—the remainder being mode up of substitutes who received tropics and elsewhere, after their service tbere—of bow
the bounty from the balloted men. (Hear.) Out of the long do you suppose I—in some eases, 25 years—(hear)—
volunteers they might not perhaps get the very beet men, and, at the very least, 10 years. After 10 years' service
but they would get men out of whom he had little doubt there.you gin them five years at home. But it happens
very good soldiers could be made. (dear, hear.) But that when the very last troops were sent out to the Cape,
if out of 18,000 men they got only 120 of those I was obliged to send a regiment that had not been more
balloted for to serve, the remataider required mu t have than 16 months at bouts. (Hear.) Therefore I say you
been drawn as substitutes front the same class of never have had a peace establishment; and still you are at
men that would retentive. Under*, present measure, peace with all the world. This militia is a part of your
therefore, they would, in the first instance, get this class constitutional peace establishment. Let us have that, and
of persons without the previous expense, delay, and incest- when you have got it, let us see what you will do next.
venom:tee of the ballot. They had not much recollection of (Cheers.) The noble marquis,—my noble friend, if he will
the delay, the expense, and inconvenience that attended the allow me to WI him so—thinks that you can form ultimately
ballot. He would mention a few of the steps which it was an army of reserve. An army of reserve! What
necessary to take. There win to be a general meeting is an army of reserve ? Is it an army to cost lees than 401.
after the Ist of October; then there were to be sub-division a man all round ? If the noble merges thinks that poem.
meetings ; in every county lists were to be returned, notices ble, I tell him it is impossible. You can have no such
served on persons claiming exemptions ; lists to be made out thing. (Hear, hear.) at hat I desire—and I believe it is
of persons not claiming exemptions ; notices of appeal to be the most moderate desire that can be formed—is that you
served. There were to be three subsequent meetings of should give us, in the first instance, the old constitutional
subdivisions, at intervals of three weeks each, for various peace establishment. (Hear, hear.) When we have got
other purposes. All these various steps could not occupy that, then you can do what you plasm. My lords, the
lees than three months from the commencement of pro- noble marquis says very truly that these 50,000, or 80,000,
eeedings, and the expenses connected with them swelled the or 120,000 men will not be lit for active service in six
general estimated for the militia. The bulk of these expenses months, or twelve months—not in eighteen months, I say.
was bootee by the county rates under the existing law. (Hear, hear.) But, my lords, they will be fit for some
This was felt by her Majesty's present government to be a service. They will set us at liberty, and enable us to em-
great pressure on the finances of the individual counties, ploy in the field others who are fit for service. (Cheers.)
and they therefore proposed that the country generally And being so employed, they will themselves become fit
should bear the expenses connected with the levying and for service. (Hear, hear.) I have been in the habit of
raising the militia. They believed that the counties would seeing, in the course of the late war, some regiments of the
experience no difficulty in raising the required quits of English militiamen. They were in as high a state:of disci-
men by volunteers, without having recourse to the previous plane and as fit for service u any men. (Hear, hear.) I
machinery of the ballot. But, being responsible for the in my life saw finer troops. (Hear, hear.) It was ire-
safety of the country, he did not think the government possible to see troops in finer order, higher discipline,
would be justified in doing away with the power which or more fit for service, than the whole body of the
the crown now possessed of calling on all its sub- British militia were, from the beginning of the present
jects, in case of emergency, to take their chance century up to 1810. They were as fine corps as ever were
of the ballot. That was a powerful instrument seen; and Ido not doubt that this body of 60,000, or
in the hands of the crown, but it would be exercised only 80,000, whatever it may be, will be win the course of time.
in the last resort, and when all other means had failed. My lords, I appeal to you to adopt this measure as the corn-
Having briefly touched the remaining provisions of the bill, mencement of the completion of your peace establishment.
the noble lord, in conclusion, trusted that the measure (Hear, hear.) It will give you a constitutional force.
would meet, if net with the unanimous, at least with the (Hear, hear) It will not be at first, nor for some time, MI
general coneurceuce of the house. It was • measure which that you may desire; but by degrees it will become that
the government thought it to be their bounden duty to carry which we want—en additional force to the regular army.
through parliament for the purpose of giving complete and (Cheers.)
entire security to the country, nut against a serious invasion, Earl OBEY said this bill was, in feet, neither more nor
but against the possibility of a hostile incursion. (Hear, less than a revival of the former militia system. It was in
hear.) The noble earl concluded by moving the second tended to bring back into effect, with some sort of adapta-
readiug of the bill. lion to the times in which we lived, the measures of the
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said he was not prepared earlier part of the present century ; and all the important
to gave a negative to the motion of the noble earl, because so portions of the act of 1802 were contained in this bill. The
important did be consider the grounds on which the bill was house had a right, therefore, to look at our former militia,
founded that fur that reason, and that reason alone, did he as- and to judge bow far the measure now proposed would be
sent to it. The question they had to consider was, whether in useful or not. They bad just heard from the noble duke
case of an invasion of the country this bill would give them that during the last war the militia was a very valuable
such an efficient and disciplined army as would effectually force. But during the war that militia wma permanently
crush the invading force. After the beet consideration which embodied force. (Hear, hear.) It was embodied • short
he was able to give to the subject, he came to the conclusion time before the war broke out ; it was kept embodied ; the
that it would not. Ile obtained all the inoormation he men were under strict martial law; they were marched
could as to the time, the means, and difficulty attendant on from one part of the country to another; they were under
the formation of a soldier, and when be was told that they the constant discipline and charge of their officers; they
were to look to this bill for that security which was essential were never allowed to go from their barracks; and were to
to the country, he looked to what would be the effect of 21 all intents and purposes a second reviler army. (Hear,
days' training,to what would be the effect of 42 dart' training hear.) So completely was that so, that in the debates of
or even of rat days training in famishing them with that that period the minister of the day invariably put the
material which they wanted. The result of 21 days train- militia along with the regular many, the retun-
ing them, in the opinion of those best qualified to judge, teen and local militia forming a separate heed.
would be that the men at the end of t hat period would be It had often been said that many of the soldiers who fought
drilled fur a march, but could not be entrusted with a at Talavera had still upon their uniforms the marks of their
musket or carbine. It would require 21 days 'more to respective militia corps; but there was nothing remarkable
make them fit to be entrusted with • musket. Was it • in that, considering the circumstances of the time. But
force of this Mal that they were to regard as competent to there was one difference between the militia and the reifi
=es peat, the urgent, and immediate duty which meets of the line, namely, that the former could not be
ewe spa them of meeting and coutenduig with made available out of the United Kingdom, however press-
an experienced rind powerful army? (Hear, hear.) The ing the necessities of the public service might be. The
greatest calmillise might result from fancying that they militia was certainly a little less efficient than the regular
had sash ea say when they had it sot. (Mom hear) If army, because the moat zealous and energetic men would
seams Amy ithie called on le net aseinst regular and die- be anxious to go abroad ; hut, except in them particulars,
eiplieed lumpy mad were defeats& the melt would be there was no difference between the old militia and the
striae net se the want of British essigge sail thdebb epielt, regular army. The militia were quite as expen-
bet to the Medd what, in the Me ells was sive, for although, as the noble lord opposite said,
et siyorsonikei than cousegssed ophit—•t waft they had no mangoes, they cost more in other ways.
eideaciplinn. Ow.) e would teem their lordships to The militia, however, was largely used as an m-
enage of the abet of the loss of a first bade from such a strument for recruiting the army. In its early days
muse on the usage of the peogis of this country. volunteers were forbidden, but afterwards parliament not
(Hear, hear.) MAI be Ad saderstalth lbs ems At all the only permitted, but offered inducements for the prectice, in
authorities tkat ha mertabed agreed fa the that a the shape of large bounties. But as an Instrument for re-
-21 days' drill takktebeee all over the Mereld sot minting into the line, it was neither a good nor a cheap
sentila
*as efficient as • iblll —M __the regular solemn Se ism measure. Alteough it was nominally constituted partly by
period. (Hem, hear The wide earl had ategthiser posed ballot it was really raised by bounty ; for the oup were
OM what busdema Gee vest della ef this am, composed almost entirely of substitutes. In the English
Mhelly, the
thee dins:Mee
Om. elms= when you regiments there were twenty-three substitutessubstitutesoat of every
bell parted km.) - edmitted twenty-six men •in the Scotch there was only one per
*aft ballot was , eel Ist ill Is be dis- cent. of ballotted men ; and in Ireland the ballot never
with if ; hut, we the saw it was to operated at all except in 1803. Persons subscribed one or
Cisuslssammi ea sea vim moil into the two guineu a year to militia clubs, which undertook to find
fisib4.
Unit Vale a kellaalier dem ef tin went substitutes for such of their members as were drawn. The
obese te snit be the masa of otheloess, shill they bad pries ei • sabeeteste had been as much as 1001. • in some
alb sal that sew eget* gm* es ge Mel seathise OMB II Wesbu 1111 L, and once, for a very short time, it
ithrseutise they-snub impose Ili ethillites. had ben is low as 101. It was evident, therefore,
lb not consider that the sew idea wader thus the ems see would be a very onerous burden
ail Meet wield be an a•ery to be rola Ili Licking apes On eti t
isintelating, in fent, to • poll-tax ; and as
at this et • somas of @ambles aa tuftfens Omd they it wield be lota a was embodied at the break-
outs& art be the dupe ef tbe same if slab is Mbar ingest ef ile good teases bad been shown why
eountries, when the Wilde All s WA* resat ahem- they thread set welt gall them was soma prospect of war.
ter from what it had in this eseella),dee meld in led in Meat been.) Allele Alga for which the militia was
the history of any 'matey, that a bed bona avail• prepenlede mad whisk we BMA Mee to the purpose, was to
skis Ike metes emits at all, with the oath it tethibiedwhich midis as ef reserve, which would enable the regular
this loth caned. Liles net dale be be wa end yet leave a form ready in case
dishapribed thlthetheas ; bet they hatilio=tatal ra re= Issaishig out of a war. Now they had no ex•
totally dams II imiar from this militia. The milks earl redeem to slew whether the militia would be likely
had touched mph the Militia Bill of the is govee mest. le be useful A that respect. They did not want
He wished alibi MilleLlate as bacidiess mesperison be• slowly to orgsmies • large form, for the only dan-
*wren *seem Alts. The ark bet eedaillasilly had a in to which this ematry was liable was in the event
right to sir wbetbse be Os MA* of lassfeeree) relied of a sudden ate Akre we had time to prepare om-
en that bill se ilmilig set Atha . He selves against it. ) Now, suppose the week after
in is nab! 110 We thee be • red next the country should be invaded, what possible sort
It Mt But lis hal theists ii implifts that, by of service could the =pest the militia to be 1 (Hear,
IgiC
may
di.
tb.takeintall ettail
seat liMibillisild6bezeiss% and oar Itr7.7govilmaimbs bellirml." bethatonet°Srhalrettaarfiplined
bgeillilligismintiry eirt serseetsell stessest lle"."lo-cZa if supportedrse lig li;a_l7weeted three ef fr to
. regemar, bear.)
M ig //
me won thou boa be
whleh they rrge boo a Imo of Bat
valet =eta pe t get sew they Ind& be totherarbaturh!
eel towns is dames la sun of amegesey- in .
in__ demi ? TPly seer A air 71. • week
labour-
Hi=te sew *aka whim be mid that asither- the te um r "• alma. whin *BY were es
militia ielpteel, sow ottseobsth se en my a reserve, and to 82610W4 while Wag" want mash BrUWW. W by,
would NOM Hats Jamey whisk wee aiessmT he the there wen se illesisle, eves in the soslh el Negier,
' defense sifts ossetey. He ksew this view was adm ore to where wages wen se low se 7s. • week. And tame were,
that of mow of bib friends, who felt a to a moreover, eons auks prespictive advantages held out to
ow. Dos be felt that it wassig Aube is the militia whisk were eared in the aimy, sub INT=
elllg thmm maim sod safeguards whisk I. mother peeled think Ipreelethele. and the like. Nee was SM aIL
in spat with iworiety against the ryes if sannang mmt did net
safest and mast efficient of all hew Weald
lamel enter into an thogemsat to serve 21
mem ; end he
hie& it his duty to avow Ms opiates =la the roar, but
es they were liable la ease of war to be
the foes their hom for five years, sad kept ender mu-
bead in tea increase a the Newf., amp del law, subject to the Mutiny let, sad the entire military
In avowing this be eintiolmed est whether MMus. The better clam of theithearing people would not
epee papaw or unpopular, U be mot in the our videntser upon terms like these. Zees the lanai of a regular
is., be should think it his boy to 111 his comlitessa, sollier was not reckoned a yesearenektle most intelli.
MN if they meant to be efelegady‘eiggelese,nesZp mast fed if the working men. He Or 7) they were
mks up their minds to be dieheakeigleg n way, mistaken, for bolds( at the , and the
(lher.) He felt the force of MO dal sailbeast, certainty, is cam at Pad madam% le a Pendant it Wu by
Mee
mth
. tie security whack the of Oa no means a bed career to • mas •issilasil to do his duty.
as useesestar edes d thusMfitio-, (Hear, hear.) Bat they mull eel say the some of the
thug, ffaa gthests wog boo sib so on tor" wh.. militiamen; sal they bed as right as expect that say
Hut the warular omit bthuotog, mot mot to ho would enter the corps erupt these le wham tie bounty
diminished, wit net a hue mareddwas an eneffieu ese the object. He did not know bow much of that beauty
state of the world whisk ampleal the taireer. That it was rr.71.04 if r.y union to the remit. but miles "•••••,i ,
was a ganger he theuth be pegged te Wu; bat it was • gave him a large proportion of the 61. they would net be
danger to which this hills Ohl min gemenste Ass a militia, able to get the men. If they paid down the whole MR
was open. All time galotoloo osoomeo wm attended with they would doubtless get a great number, but thew weeld
expense and inconvenience. The vete for the militia could consist of the least intelligent and the least valuable part
not be continued without the approbation of parliament; of the community. (Hear, hear.) Then, again, it was pro-
and if the House of Commens should take a different view posed to train thas men at different periods, for fifteen
from that it now entertebeil—if wiser statesmen or more weeks, being about two weeks mare than was required
popular leaders should think the militia no longer neecs- to teach a recruit the rudiments of his profession ; but when
airy, it might be peered to cut it off; end that he (Earl Grey) was Secretary at War, he was told by the
might be done in every case. At the same time, authorities at the Horse Guards that when a regiment re-
if it afforded any facility for the formation of turned from India and had a great number of vacancies to
an army of reserve, for he would not insult an army of Ibe filled up, it required a year's drill before it was 'n
reserve by calling this militia one—he would accept it on efficient ; although in those eases they still retained the ske-
that mound, be'ieving that an arm of reserve, properly kton of the regiment. He considered that the bill, while it
I constituted and disciplined, was capable of becoming nearly would be a failure in itself, would also interfere with the
a. 4 fttcient as a regular ar.r. He trusted that this imper. regular army. If the new force was constituted by volun-
feet measure would not be the only measure which parlia- tart' enrolment, the supply would be drawn from the class
want and the country would have recourse to for the of young men who supplied our recruits. Ho showed that
puree*: of plating England on that pinnacle which was this effect had been produced during the last war;
and he
essential to its glory, isindependence, and its continued es reseal his conviction that the bill would prove not only
1 prosperity. (Cheers) • failure in itself, but be most dangerous in its operation.
The Duke of WELLINGTON—I certainly, my lords,
On this point he eluded to the experience of France. The
i .
Present was a period of petit tranquility, arising from the
am the last person to endeavour to deceive your lordships . general welfare, but such a happy state of things could not
upon the relative advantage of meeting an enemy with die- ' always he calculated on ; and whet would be the result
eiplined, or undisciplined, or halfoliscipliaed troops. My when new troubles and excitements arose of giving to
, the least trustworthy portion of the population a knowledge
lords, these things are so different, that they are not to be
of military discipline ? The bill brought forward by the
compared at all. (Cheers.) With disciplined troops,
we late government was essentially different from the pr t
bare the greatest confidence that that which they ought to measure, and the opposition now offered to it could not be
perform they will perform; with undisciplined troops, we reieirdeol as involving any inconsistency. lie considered it
in have no such confidence. (Hear, hear.) Indeed, in `e most unfurtunste circumstance that at the clam of the war
I tha latter ease, it would be impossible to newer for what I the local militia was abandoned. Ile lamented the deficient
1 night o
happen, and one would be in. lined to expect the I elateionf the t poteeti manyn
;"Ittgd:ißrtassedt :14
ray reverse of what bad been ordered. (Cheen and 1 been nosed by parents from the public revenue. Ile X '
latighter) We must look to the state in which we stand at I !leved that volunteer rifle corps also might have been made
the present moment. This country is at peace with the
a far more useful arm .f defence than that now con-1
templated in the event of
.any sudden emergency. Tbe
whole woad, excepting in certain puts of the frontiers of
better elem.,' would sot subject themselves to the risk of
its own distant dominions, with which operations of war service for five years as commas aoldien if war broke out.
are carried on by enema of your peace establishment. You 1 He would not have enyported the 'maestro of the late go-
are now providing for a poses establishment. You are at vernment had he believed the ballot would ever Wale