The Express.
London, England, 1855-05-15 00:00:00

THE EXPRESS, TUESDAY EvitNING, MAY 15, 1855.

would not ask bow meek the deasonstratioa of *alb
°pillion had lammed the noble lord. He very
mtsch doubted the policy of ankle' such changes at the
reseal moments but he supposed the g meat bad
, well ova iderect the new analgesia; and the roladletei
I the rations departments to sash other. The noble
I earl said, look to the effect this resolution will
have on the present goverment ; and deprecated the
system of overthrowing • government Indio*
!change of policy. He wished the noble seri she
his friends had sated on that principle at the close Of
1852. There was SO desire en his part. Of that of his friends,
togas oMa • soy min must hesitate whoa he eonsidered
the position of the country. He should regret if the result
of the motion was to be • chugs of adminisiration but*
could not admit that the country was in the same poSitio• ele
it was when he was compelled by a woes of doe, to
decline the task of forming • government At that time ads-
heats and difficult negotiation moth* going on which latch*
be interfered with by a change of government. At that time
lola there was such • gametal otabdencia in the noble lead
no. at the head of tie government, as being the Daly mail
for the situation, that no geminates% could have bees
formed without him, but !f he was now removed
from aka, his prestige was so diminished, and the warmth
of feeling so cooled auen, that the people walla look tag
calmly on, and consider that the county might be ad.
ministered without him. The able earl said if you
do not wish to change the government, consider what'
et et these evolutions will have on toting. g eats.
The sable earl aimed to aide that the resolution woo*
live encouragement to the peace party in Reglad sad
be
France—that a former speech of his noble inland's woo
dictated by pelt& motives, and the desire of iodispookag
Francs to our altianee—that he wanted to encourage
Rasta, by disparaging oar own resources—and that Austria
and Prima were natty to feel the influence of this resolu-
tion. There was no exereseinn, no hint, in the resolution of
his noble friend, which could bear the impression or the
view of the noble sal. They bad already recognised with
thaskfulares the good sindinstandi.g and alliance which
subsisted betas. this couatry and France—an alliance the
average of which mould be felt mot only by this country,
hut by other countries in future. (Hae, hear.) The noble
earl midi • mistake in thinking that they disparaged
the rasediroes of England. They drew • distiaction between
the reasons of England and the meaner in which they
had hem husbanded and applied. (Cheer) Tbey drew •
distinction between Ragland ad her government. (Hair,
heir.) They were justtlied in disparaging the connect of
the Liverwurst ; the more especially, it it excited them to
fresh activity and exertions. (Hear, hear.) If, unhappily,
there should be • change of government, he believed it
would not in the least affect the amicable relations which
subsisted between this country end any of the great powers:
it was because he held the greater portion of the resolution
to be truisms which could not be denied, but which it was
essential to place on nand as the solemn resolution of pee.
Bement—it wee because it embodied their determinant.' to
emanate the war to the utmost ; their adherence to the
Pm* alliance ; their satisfaction at the accession or
Pisiment thereto; and the realms, of the country
whit to all privations, provided the war was con-
dated ably, energetically, and usefully ; and their dotermi•
atlas that it should be so conducted—it was becalms
be felt the assertions of 'hat resolution were matter of Mr
importance 1 the people as a genuine expend to of their
Sentiments, that he cordially gave his sweat to the mottos
if his noble friend. Anti whatever might be his success,
whether he *braid navy it or rot, he should rejoice that he
sad his conservative friends, whilst abeam to maintain the
latitutious of the country, showed tney did sot set at
asaght public fleecier, but dazed to co-operate with that
paha °pluton, to the fullest silent to which they could ge,
witaout desiring to go along with the exaggerations to
which it zni,gb lead. It was fur these reasons that he
*bald conaliy support the resolution of his noble
trietd. (Cheere.)
The Duke of NRWCAS ME said that unless the noble
ail who had just sat down was prepared to upset the pre-
sent government and to form one of his own instead, he'
ought not to savors the present motion ; because, to bring
leeward such a motion merely for the papas of dami.giag
Yd weakening • government which the noble earl declared
to he already weak enough, was not worthy of the pests ot
Ragland at a moment like the present. (Hear, hear.) He
had already, on a former occasion, explained the grounds
on which he assumed the responsibility of the War•ifiloe,
and be would not then refer to them. The noble earl said
that if a civilian wee appointed to the head of the War-
s/Am, he ought to have a war tiff under hies.
Well, he had for IMMO time objected to the ap-
pointment of his gallant friend the late Sir G.
Cathcart to a command in the Crimea on that
very account. (Hear, hear.) He felt the importance of
his service in this country, and it was only upon weighing
the advantages and disadvantages* both sides that be can.
seated to his thing a command in the Crimea. The noble
earl said that the Ordainas was left In • meat deficient
state is consume°e of the absence of Lord Raglan. He
could only say that it was intended that the Lieutenant.
General should have the same power as the Master-General
in the Ordeals and therefore he was astonished at the
statements of Sir H. R7ll. The noble earl refitted to the
appointment of Mr. Masa and to his change of religion.
Ile trusted that in a discussion of that kind at all
events the question of a man's religion would not be brought
forward. (Hear, heat) He knew that Lord Reglan left
the country hewing a high opinion of the ability end fitness
of Mr. Moneell for the office of Clerk of toe Ordnance.
The noble sal said that Mr. Monsen w. a the drat civilise
who held the office of Clark of the Ordnaoce. The noble
earl was quite mistaken. Of the four military persons
whom he referred to as bolt ice the dike two of them never
held it at all. (•• Hear, hear," and laughter.) In 1807 Mr.
W. W. Pole, a civilian, and the alloe, Mr. A Cooper held
it in 1811, said Mr. Plower Wood after him. Between
1807 end 1832 his nails friend (Lord Harding') was the
Only military man who held the office. (Hear beer.)
The noble earl praised tbe labour and assiduity width be
had shown. But be begged to say he would not
praises for the performance of his duty ; and if his ad=
!ration of the war department was bad he did not wish that
his labour and assiduity should be placed as a set oft spate'
it. The noble earl said that it was bad pulley to undertake
the szaditioa to the Crimes. It was very well to ay that
now when they were supposed to have failed, though he
did not think they had ; but no one said that it was im
politic in December lest. (Hear.) Oa the cooreary, the
organ of the noble earl threatened the governorint with
impeaelment if they did not undertake that expedition.
(Hear.) But then the noble earl said that they seat for.
• the army without giving them the mesas of carrying
oar the siege. Tb. Dale earl was mistaken in ireppesisi
that be said in his evidence before the Sslssetoril the etas
that they expel ed to have taken that place by a asp&
MOM. Whet he said was, that they expected It awn be
taken before the army went into winter quarters. Bat
so far from its being trae that the army was not provided with
propel means, it was provided all along with a siege train.
Huts and warm clothing of various descriptions were M-
olded when it was known that the May would winter in the
Crimea. Tice noble sari was again mistaken in sap•
posing that the late government wished to shift
the -blame on the Amide,' of his noble friend
the Commander.in-Chief from their own. Eves
is private sonversatica he never let fall any remark whikt
could beer that interpretstios. It would be the most un-
sesames thing is the world to attempt to throw the blame
ea the Cemusades‘iarChisf. (Ham) Be believed the
emuitry was greethp indebted te him fee the tact, time
;
sad disereides-Mielt ha limed IS maiming and cionseasai.
eating between the two amino. (Hew.) That discretion
had dm mono to pressen, sot euly the good haling
between the two maim. Ist le seem& that became the
two errantrim, this asp ems uses swam af. The noble
earl referred to an simmer it Os Jells Bargoyse, that the
railway would have boss of great use in the math
of
(Nicobar. The wads. was a very silly one, sad of
seasse it could meths as ether answer. No doubt the
railway would have bees et me in October; it would have
bees of see if it MA lam made when they landed, but so
math a great sissy Misr Map which thecould not have.
(Haar, boa.) lie did sot wait till April to arrange for the
making of the railway. Oa the contrary, he sent for Sir
I Pato is Nevamber, and it was arranged early in
Demstbse that the railway should be made. (Hear.)
lii else ema est Ommlasery Gesexel Smith to make ar-
ise the smiths and treasport of the troops,
=CTt:italias Mies MS been seat to buy home in all its
Of the Best. Be deshal that the sommateat bad not takes
wavy moans la their power to learn the strthgth of the
swam in the Crimea ; sad with regard to the mos
ssismat Sir G. Brown, scompanied by a French officer.
esthersi the whole mast between Sebsatopol and Baps
issia. It was quite true they had not the same means of
Misleising the strength of the Basslaas as they bad of
smatheinig Ihs strength of Aiwa* tae Prussia, bet
OM el MI segint the meths is their purer, Yd he
Mi ems messes to believe that the amosat he vest fo
wit:4r eras sot far from the truth as that bead.
with Lead Derby than the beam MI the Washy
MON at miss say mest_whethar baloasiss te the
Mamas, um; beesicks late MY% Mese lima should
resist minim to the ethefeyi bat if Na seem wen not
fir=tthe emit castle Wm the existing
Th=ty of othesedal and wassfaatur-
ing men seldested to take elk% Deism by se Mug they
would be takes away hem the dr awe mans ; but there
were malty other compel mt sMs, mit properly members of
the Warns, Mem, use awe be called on to take ethos.
He higad te am Na M Nth M parliament ; but the evil
woe rut eamtitwassied, theleed of looking out for dal*
topeennetteleee. were is must Is the habit of relying on
date and iseethis In Leaks far meditates ; and so long
as they did this, tkey wadiMy get men of midi badly to
11111110111114 them. He bawd the wintry would not be led
amp with the idea that we were SS slits nation. He
belle/MI that theorems was the eme, as& that our army
ems Impreeed. We had had dimeesir bat sins Ins milt-
Mry Mee. Lathing at the relative pedalos af the ellies emd
the esemybe theright it was set es sethmuralei se the
kneer. We hod pat *map to the asset similar* ef ass.
glens sod had meth frem the sea every *blip she posemed.
We bad ellsoled a leftmost upea her Men which it was
=he beer te iimive es of, sad be throe& the re-
Me was highly mthhetary se the slike. (Heal
The Marquis of CLAMICLUDI sad the Marquis of Los-
DONDISKY said they mid sat agree to the resolutions.
The Mania- of LANSDOWNI sal& he had risen more
than once for the purpose el making seem obsevatioas, but

be hod Pady sheen way to the noble marquis who spike'
last and to the sable duke (Nevem,.le), for every sue el
whom alb he held himself responsible for hie share as a
member of the government, sad ha was sled to be se. '
(Hear, hem.) The noble earls (lilleaborougli mad Derby)
bad *alma different pounds ►n their support el this notice.
The latter noble lad had disclaimed the popular sentiment
which was abread—that there was at any time to be fiend
unemployod the requisite amount of talent and geniis for
carrying oa the goetemment ; while the whole speech of
the mover of the isolations was directed to prove that it
was possible to fled, even at the very commeneement
eta war, the means necessary for ensuring success
by a proper choice of men. One of the noble
lord's rsselatioes asserted that men are selected ia
this wintry for public employment la regard to
other eonsiderationa than the public service." What did
that mesa ? Wm it not a charge ? (Hear, hear.) If see
no scruples with regard to the government ought to deter
the noble earl from stating who thaw man were. (Load
cheep.) Bat be lied abstained from all mention of men,
though throughout the whole of his speech there had reigned
an soinsiou to one man, and, whether he ietended it or nor,
out it came,enil that man we. Lord Palmerston. ar.) Hs
(the Maranis of Lansdowne) did not attach undue import-
ance to the late change of government ; he considered himself
responsible for the acts of both. If the present toversvneut
had any superiority, it was one derived from time ; east it
was a seperiority which the noble duke (Newcastle) would
awn derived had he remained in °dire, fee be
bad laid the foundations of much that had sines

beat dens, and which had contributed so largely
to the present abeieney of the army. (Rear, hear.)
He held it a delusion to suppose that an army could I.
Acted est atone, so as to assure 10130e111, without previous
ezperienee. Oa that account, in every war we had waged
from teethe. of the revolution, the war had been Winn
maul in the first year, to a greater degree oven than
present war. (Hear, bear.) Bash was the cue in the
Frith expedition of Wiliam III.; sad all the complaints
&taut the state of the Crimean army last autumn bad Men
preferred with much gre tar force in the ease of the army
which was ant to invade Ireland. The historian attri-

bated Ws to the English not bring a people prepared for
war, and wbo had been a long time at peace. In the ex-
peditien undertaken in the last year of William 111., the
result was utter ruin sad discomfiture ; and yet that ex-
pedition bad been planned by Hiog William, end cononcbd
by too Duke of Marlborough. (Rear, hear.) Toey were
to. incapable. of those days. (Laughter) The noble
earl's row:notions went to the fonodetion of all represents-

the government whatever. (Hear, hear.) It Was quite
true, as the noble earl had stated that, when the Reform Bill
wee before them, he said the measure would have the effect
of creating impracticable parliaments. The noble earl new
told toese that his prediction had been fulfilled: but then
he immediately went on to state the want of success which
Mr. rites government had experienced in earning on mill.
tery ',Gies. (Hear, bear.) So that neither • reformed
parliament our an unretormed parliament, according to
UN noble earl, was able to conduct • war, and there was
thus nothing left for them but • pure despotism.
(Cheers.) It was • popular error to suppose that'
there existed In this country any great reservoir of
'talent and ezpeeienoe upon which any government
origin draw to any extent they chose. There was
no mode by which talent might be forced as in a hot bed.
(Hear, hear.) All that • pvernment could do was to avail
themselves of tetent when it showed itself, to foster it and
to turn it to the beet account in their power. (Hear, hear.)
He (the noble marquis) objected to the resolutions. because
they would give countenance to that popular error; sad
uoul tee noble earl could point out cases is which hie noble
treacle erased him had actually exercised their patronage,
flu • sinister purpose, and to the emission of better men;
be mould take the loin, to believe that bee Majesty's go-
veroment did avail themselves of the best talent at their
disposal. (Hear, beer.) He objected to the evolutions
moreover, license they would countersue@ the notion that
we had been defeated. That he altogether denied. (Cheers.)
In what had we suffered nilvrwise than from the casualties
inseparable from war? If instead of every &mien poet
in every sea being converted into • prison, the noble earl
could point to • Rosman fleet sweeping the Channel ur the
Mediterranean, then he might hays been justified in bring•
tog such • general accusation against the conduit of the
war. (Hear, hear.) No doubt our troops had suffered
much ; but it was • melancholy 'titillation to know that
the miseries inflicted up a the enemy had been threefold,
those inflicted upon the whole of the allied forces. If oar
soldiers had suffered from want of clothing, habitations, and,
means of transport, the Russians bad suffered ten ileitis
more. He should astonish their lordships If he told them
we amount of loss which the enemy bad suffered in the
course of the last year He bad in his hand • docu-
ment, which was of the very highest authority,
and he found in it a statemeat to the effect that a few days
before the death of the Emperor Nicholas • return was
made to him, from which it appeared that no fewer than
177,000 coca bad then died. (Sensation.) According to •
euoplementary return furnished some days later. 70,000
more had been addel to the list, making • total of 247,000!
(Hear.) AillUD, he objected to the motion because it wee,
to point of feet, condemnatory of the French government.
(Cheers.) He ventured to assert that no step whatever
had been taken in this war, and that no expedition bad been
planned, which, if not directly suggested by the French,
bad not met with the entire and cordial concurrence of oar
invaluable allies. (Cheers.) He was sot able to learn from
the speech of the noble e irl whether he condemned or spa
proved of the appointment of Lord Raglan. (Heal.) He tion•
eluded, however, from the noble earl's not blaming it, that it
had met with his approbeion. Well, then, the noble earl's
general coademeation of the appointment' of the govern-
ment, except that of the most important of all, was some,
what !the the play of Hamlet with the part of Hamlet lett
out. Lord Raglan bad indeed shown the utmost ability
sad good sense, joined to a conciliatory spirit, which had
laid the foundation of that ordiality and sifted= totems
the two armies which would do more than anything Mesa
meat an *Mine that had already been most beneficial, addl
that would, be hoped, prove yet more profitable both le
France aad ten this country. (Cheers.) For all these rmoi
sees he trusted the house would not be betrayed lies
giving arty countenance to the resolution. (Loud *MO
The Esti of ELLEN BOROUGH, in reply, only thought
it nessisary to notice two pints, one in the speech of tie
noble inertias, and the other in that of his noble friend the
noble duke. He could not allow the noble mareptis to
speak of the proposed address as one that represented this
as • defeated country. (Hear, bear.) He (the noble seal)
admitted the glories which our troops had ootained—satyr,
indeed, had oar troops obtained more. He admitted the
victory of the Alma ; be acknowledged the glorious martial
is which our mope had driven luck the Russians at
bekermenn ; and be had himself described in terms that
might be thought to savour of hyperbole the attack of our
"rivalry at Baleklava. But what he said was that, in eon-
sequence of the conduct of her Majesty's government, and
the defective strategy adopted, our troops had been
• position In which these •victories were
g:714 mees, and in which it bad been and was impossible
to obtain a decisive entrees. The noble duke had charged
him with rot having objected to the expedition to Sebe►
temol at the time. That be thought was an unjust charge.
The expedition was not known to him till the 6th of As-
egaesett and at that period almost item One of their lord-
gips bad left London. He (Lord Elleaborough) bad him-
self done so; but be blamed himself for eat having returned
to town, late as it was, and stated in his place in parliament
his objections to the step. He did, however, write to his
noble friend, the noble duke, a letter, in which he west,
daberately into all the obj.etions be had stated that night.
nail that letter the noble deka had eirealated moose; his
enneegues. (Hear, hear.)
The Duke et NEWCASTiI and Bed
aid • few words in explanations bat they were both in-
ns=in the gallery. •
lordships then divided—
Contents—Peen present
Proxies
ntente—Peen present ll5
Proxies

and orders of the limps gave boo. members a fair opportu-
nity for bringing forward such motions.
Mr. DISRAELI wished to say a word in reference to
thesame subject. The noble lord had remarked that the
MOM boa. gentleman the member for Manchester had given
Mike of an intention to move an address to her
Majesty with regard to the Vienna papers ; but, so
far es he (Mr. Disraeli) could judge, it wu im-
possible for the right. hos. gentleman to introdace
hie motion. He must say, too, that he had not luau,. soy
previous use in which, wiles negotiations for peace had
turainated, and the papers had been laid on the table, the
minister himself had not gives nodal, of a motion for an
address to the crews with respect to the papers and the
ondect of the negotiations. He would not make any ob
'ovations on the mamma which might iadaos her Majesty's
miaisters not to take that mune now, but as he appre-
beaded that they were not prepared to do so, he would ask
the noble lord whether he did not feel Wand, if he him-
self did not move au address, to wore to any hon. member
who wu not connected with the government an opportuoity
of fulfilling what he might conceive to be his duty in that
reaped.
Lord P,

said he bad no wish to pat any
impediment is the way of any hon. member who might
desire to take the sent of the hems en public questions, but
there were votes of supply and other matters of a pressing
nature which must be disposed of. He thought it would be
lin the power of any member v ho had an important question
to bring forward to arrange with other members who might
otherwise take advantage of their precedence to bring for-
ward a motion which was not of great or paramount im-
portance. Of course it was difficult for him to answer off-
hand questions which were put without notice, bat he c uld
aware the tight hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) that there
was nothing but a willingnem, au he should rather say a
desire, oa the part of her Majesty's government that the
same of parliament should be taken, one way or other, on
matters of such importance.
Mr. DISBAELI—Is it the intention of the noble lord
himself t. propose an address?
Lord PALMERSTON—No.

CITY CORPORATION REFORM.
Mr. LABOUCHERE asked whetbir tre bill for reform-
ing the aorporation of the City of London was to be
brought forward within some reasonable time?
Sir G. GREY said that the bill had been prepared, and
would be printed in the present week.