The Press.
London, England, 1857-06-20 00:00:00

THE PRESS.

Was such a thing ever before known as a public body in-
forming the Lord Lieutenant that it was their deliberate
intention not to obey the law, anti requiring him, on that
ground, to obtain an alteration of the law in accordance
with their views? If ever such a suggestion was made, can
an instance be adduced when a Government did not reject
the proposal with indignation, but, on the contrary, tamely
yielded to the request, and themselves brought forward a
measure for carrying it into effect? Don't tell me that the
Government have no power to enforce the tax. The
existing law provides that, in default of payment half-
yearly, the amount shall be recoverable as a debt due to the
Crown from the city of Dublin, or any other city or
borough in which default may occur, anti that the Lord
Lieutenant of Ireland may order all sums due to the Crown
to be recovered and paid to the Ecclesiastical Commission-
ers. Am Ito be told that, with the powers of recovering
the tax as a Crown debt, the law or the Government are so
impotent in Ireland that 11,000/. cannot be collected in
these eight cities?
I oppose this bill upon the ground of principle, inasmuch
as it takes away from the Church property which belongs
to that institution by a sacred right. I have proved to your
lordships, upon the evidence of the Lord Chancellor of
Ireland, that the funds of the Ecclesiastical Commission-
ers, so far from being able at the present moment to bear
an additional charge, are wholly inadequate to the charges
imposed upon them by Parliament; and I have presented
to your lordships this consideration—that nothing can be
more dangerous than that a Government should yield to
the mere clamour of one or two corporations, in a case
where there is no proved necessity for an alteration of the
law, when the Government have already obtained judg-
ment for the Crown in the Court of Exchequer, anti where,
therefore, the law cannot be doubtful. Upon all these
grounds of principle and expediency I feel it my bounden
duty to give my voice against this bill, and to move that it
be read a second time this day six months.
The Earl of Harrowby, the Earl of Cork, and
Lord de Malahide, supported the bill. The Bishop
of Kilmore, Viscount Thangannon, the Earl of
Wicklow, and the Earl of Donoughrnore, opposed it.
The Earl of EMENBOROUOR had become ac-
quainted with the nature of this tax twenty years
ago, and thought it was necessary to get rid of it.
It was not a fancy grievance, but a remnant of the
old penal code, and it was desirable to get rid of it.
He wanted to see established in Ireland what was
intended by the Roman Catholic Relief Bill—that
was religious peace, and he did not think they would
advance religious peace if they attempted to collect
this tax. To render the funds sufficient to bear the
new charge he proposed to reduce the expenses of
the commissioners by transferring the management
of the Church temporalities from the separate and
independent body by which they are at present
managed, to the Board of Works in Ireland. He
gave his support to the second reading, accompanied
by an intimation that he would propose an amend-
ment in committee to carry out his suggestion if
the Government declined to adopt it.
Lord BERNERS opposed the bill.
- - - -

The Duke of NEWCASTLE contended that they
should now settle the question in a way that would
produce religious peace in Ireland, and gave his
support to the bill. At the same time he must ex-
press his regret at being obliged to withdraw from
the Ecclesiastical Commissioners any portion of the
funds intrusted to their administration.

The house then divided, when there appeared—
For the second reading
Against it .... •• • •
Majority for Government
Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS-THURSDAY.
NEW WRIT.

On the motion of Mr. HAvrEa a new writ was
ordered to be issued for the electioa of a representa-
tive for Banffshire, in the room of the Right Hon.
James Earl of Fife, who since his election has
accepted the office of Steward of her Majesty's manor
of Hempholme.

SATINOS-BANKS.

The CHANCELLnR of the EXCHEQUER, in reply to
Lord Goderich and Sir H. Willoughby, said that lie
should proceed with his bill next Thursday, and in
the event of the Savings•bank Bill becoming law in
the present session, be should be prepared to assent
to the appointment next session of a committee to
consider the general state of the law relating to
savings-banks, both as regarded their constitution
and the financial questions raised by gentlemen
opposite, with a view to the reconsideration and con-
solidauon of the statutory enactments.

SUPPLY. ARMY ORGANISATION.

Mr. Farm:iv having brought up the report of the
Committee of Supply,
General PEEL drew attention to portions of the
evidence taken before the Sebastopol Committe, and
the Chelsea Commission, in order to show the lives.
sity of defining the responsibility and duties of the
various departments, and especially of the Secretary
for War. The great lault of our military system, he
observed, was the making one department respon-
sible for another, so that there was a want of security
for the co-operation of the whole. He asked whether
anything had been done in consequence, in the way
of improving those portions of the army establish-

SATURDAY,

ments which related to the supply of all kinds of
necessaries ?

Mr. E. ELLICE, sen., believed that very much had
been done since the late war to put the army in a
state of efficiency; but a definite statement from the
War Department on this important subject was
looked for by the country.
Sir J. PAXINOTON thought General Peel had done
great service in calling attention to this subject, and
hoped that, in time of peace, the Government would
see the importance of having the duties of the diffe-
rent military departments clearly understood and
defined, especially those of the Secretary for War and
the Commander-in-Chief of the Army.
Sir W. CODRINGTON thought unity in the army
should exist ; but he did not believe this unity could
be effected when you had two officials with corelative
powers not defined:—
The discipline and punishment of the army were left, be
believed, as entirely as they could be when there was a
Secretary for War, with the Commander-in-Chief ; but he
believed it would be very difficult to say who was really the
person responsible for any particular regulation or even
point of discipline. Now the discipline of the army must
left in the bands of the Commander-in-Chief. The ap-
pointment of persons to commissions also must surely be
left to the Commander-in. Chief. Then who, under those
circumstances, was to be responsible? Hon. gentleiwgt
asked questions in that house, and expected answers from
the Under Secretary for War ; but, surely, as a general rule,
the Commander-in-Chief was responsible ; and if so, he
ought to have the most ample and independent power to
carry thin responsibility into effect.
Lord PALMERSTON pointed out to the house that
at the commencement of the late war there were
four different authorities governing the army. At
present these four were merged into two, the
Secretary of State for War and the Commander-in-
Chief ; but between the duties of these two depart-
ments there must necessarily be the most intimate
communication :

The fundamental distinction between the two offices is
that the Secretary of State for War is responsible for
everything relating to the political and financial arrange-
ments of the army, while the Commander-iu•Chief is
primarily responsible for all which has reference to the
discipline and promotion of the troops. It would, how-
ever, be a matter of impossibility to provide that those
two heads of departments should not, without injury• to the
public service, hold constant personal communication
with one another upon points which are intimately con-
nected with their respective offices. Draw as you will
upou paper any positive line of distinction between the
officers in question, it is impossible that you can do so
without interfering with that harmonious and confidential
intercourse between the two, without which the military
service cannot be efficiently administered. lam happy to
be able to say that such is the nature of the communica-
tion which now subsists between my noble friend at the
head of the War Department and the illustrious Prince
who holds the office of Commander-in-Chief. Nothing,
indeed, can be more completely harmonious and confi-
dential than their intercourse.

Mr. STAFFORD remarked upon the deficiency of
the medical departments of the army, and replied to
Lord Palmerston's assertion of harmony at the
Horse Guards :

He might say that it had for some time been evident
that dissatisfaction prevailed in military quarters with re-
spect to the working of the War•ollice and the Horse Guards.
It was complained that responsibility was so divided
between them that it was impossible to ascertain to which
department the responsibility of a particular act attached.
The noble lord at the head of the Government had most
justly observed that confidential communication ought to
exist between two members of different departments; that
communication, for instance, must be permitted to
subsist between the Admiralty and the War-office; but it
was in his ( Mr. Stafford's) opinion extremely desirable
that, while such was the case, the public at large should be
in a position to know at whose door the responsibility of a
particular act was to be laid. The noble lord had also
stated that while the Secretary of State for War had had
the political and financial departments of the administra-
tion of the army under his control, that department which
related to promotion and discipline was under the direction
of the Commander-in-Chief; but, so far as he ( Mr.
Stafford) could learn from the tone of the debate, some
bon. members entertained in reference to the latter point
opinions somewhat at variance from those to which the
noble lord bad given expression.
A desultory conversation ensued, in which Sir J.
RAMSDEN stated the Government only intended to
use the Curragb camp as a summer camp, and
that Tetley Hospital was to be built upon its present
site.