The Express.
London, England, 1855-07-27 00:00:00

(Stamped id. Additional.)

of the poor; for it was shown, by the reports of the ht-
I that it was not the childrea of the poor, but the
childrenige'of the small shopkeeper, the yeoman and the tenant
farmer, whe mild well afford to pay for the services of the
schoolmaster, whe were educated at these national schools.
He contended, too, that the grant was misapplied—that in
many OEM it was given to aid some rich proprietor to erect
as ornamental school upon his estate. With regard to the
education of masters and pupil-teachers in the normal
eshools. be quoted the opinions of Mr. Mitchell sad other
school inspectors to show that the trained and certificated
masters were generally above the work of educat-
ing the children of the poor, and that in general
the beet schoolmasters were without certificates,
er were sertiffisated only es of the third clue.
The grant was for the instruction of the poor, and yet a
large portion of ft was employed in educating teachers who
is. mine their work, or who obtained, at the national er
a means of enteriher professions. One of the
iueelen stated that thud which now tied the teacher
tt7ETrOfession wee very slight. Mr. Watkins said that
esse-third of the pupil teach rs in hie district did not remain
he their profession. Mr. Stewart said that each apprentice
t 1001., and the while amebae ever 7,00 W. Each games
eseellifMr lead yet, after all this cost, there was no
security that they would remain in their profusion. Mr.
Asmara said that the aunties was considered u a means
tif suiting at private ends at the public cost. The apprea-
tiesehip system was considered to be a failure. Mr. Watkins
said be was afraid the education was petting above the
standard of the school age. The books and maps used
were too fer advanced for the children, and as ill
adapted, he said, for their purpose, as was a
perk of artillery for the destruction of sparrows.
He thought all these facts sfforded sufficient grounds
for moving for a reduction or the grant. If it was neces-
sary to have a grant of money for education purposes, the
system of education to be taught should be freely discussed
in that house. Lie believed that a system of education was
trollaii:tp under the voluntary system which would prove
We hazier to any system of state education. At
peessat what was called the national system interfered with
tritglous liberty.~ because the pupils were obliged to learn the
allure\ OM •ski: It was the re.ibtroduction of the Test
Act in man y parishes of England under the e notion of the
Board of Education. He asked the house not to extend
'the grant beyond the sum of last year, till there was an in-
quiry to ascertain whether the mosey was applied in the
manner originally intended. (Hear, has
Mr. Berme?, Lord J. MANNERS, Mt. BARROW, Sir
I•TARINOTON, end Mr. L. DAVIS, supported the vote.
Mr. MULL said he wished to explain the ground upon
which he and his friends objected to this grant. It was not
the same as that upon which they should object to a general
educational system for the whole country, weich he believed
would be dangerous to the civil and religious liberties
of the people. Nor was it merely for the lake of
economy that they would object to such an amount
as that • of this grant. But their great objection
was, that it did sot really attain the object
which was latended. The house did find in fact that
the class which they intended to reach by these educa-
tional agencies had not been touched by them. The dan-
gerous rimy as it was called, out of which criminals arose,
had never eons within the reach of any educational appe-
tite yet devised. The ragged schools perhaps might touch
them, bat the ragged schools could only be conducted by
men of Christian benevolence and warm sympathies,
who would be daunted by no difficulties or opposition.
But another object had been attained although they
failed in this. The schools aided by these grants educated
the children of small tradespeople, of yeomen, and tenant
lumen—that class of people who were ready to avail them-
selves of the asistuice so afforded them, but who had the
means of educating their children for themselves; and the
independence of that class was undermined, instead of being,
as it ought to be, most carefully Cherished. And this was
done under the plea that it was to rescue from ignorant). and
vice a class which was becoming Unguent to society, and
which the school system actually did not reach ! It
this grant were increased to any conceivable amount, the
dangerous ignorance of the people would be left just where
it was. He (Mr. Miall) believed that, as had been observed,
the schoolmasters were overeducated, and made teachers of
science instead of being teachers to discipline the character.
He believed that the object for which parliament voted this
money was rasher to tenth and form the character and make
awful titian*, than to pour any quantity of mere instruc-
tion into the mind; but the system which was now pursued
was 'calculated only to cultivate the udentanding and act
to mould the habits end character of the people. Such was
likely to be always the effect of state interference with
education, because the government could not rightly appre-
ciate the circumstances and wants of the workitg classes.
Mr. COBDEN remarked that the hon. member fer Roch-
dale, and those who Whored to the voluntary principle with
him, and who had opposed every state interference with edu-
cation, now shifted their round. He had always thought
that they objected to every system of education in which the
secular element should be separated from the religious, and
that as they would
Woking of religion, it was therefore they protested against
as educational grant from the state; but the hoe. member
now said that he °Naiad to this grant because it did not se-
cure the desired result. He seemed to contemplate a certain
class as that which produced criminals ; and no doubt it was
the most ignorant class, being the most vicious and also the
poorest ; but it was quite unfair for hint to assume that
the existing school system entirely failed to reach that class.
If the honourable member entered any national school, ,
or British school, in any town or village of the.
kingdom, so far from finding all the children to be.
of yeomen and small shopkeepers, as he had said, for
any me each that he might find there, he would find • great
number were children of the labouring class. (Hear, hear.)
The hon. member said the parents of the children in
cur schools were very well able to pay for their education,
boa if that were the saes, then why should be, and those who
amented the name of voluntaries, aid the poor by eleemosy-
aaaarryy subscriptioes emu" the richer members of conic-
gWaos and churches ? Voluataryiso, strictly so called,wes
violated by such aid as well as by parliamentary
grants, end more harm was doe* by it is
pauperising the recipients of such aid, and the rules of poli-
tical economy were not less infringed by it. (Fiew, hear.)
But ha (Mr. Cobden) confessed that he was not satisfied
with the way in which the public money was now voted and
applied for education. He caw the difficulty in which the
House of Commons was placed by the refusal of the religions
voluntaries to receive a share of this grant. They Mood
aloof, and then complained of it as an injustice; whe that
fair to i &Moment or to themselves ? He' (Mr. Celseen),
with the right hon. gentleman the member for Mantlieseer.
was reedy to meet their conscientious objections with an
offer of esoular educations while, on the other hand, the
right him. baronet opposite proposed to adapt the re,igioui
teaching of childrea in schools to the scruples of their
patents. But the " voluntary " party um taking a posi
tion which really was not tenable, because no one mild fall
to acknowledge that some good had arisen out of these par-
liamentary grants. (Cheers) Let the hon. member for
Rochdale and his friends help to amend the system, and
apply it to aU classes of the community. He (Mr. Cobden)
was glad to say that the hoe. gentlemen opposite were now
making great Unease towards a more jest and equitable
view of popular education—(sheen); and if anybody had
told hiss Ave or ten yeus ago, that he should have heard
sash _
petweel from that quarter, so well calculated
Z eilr twee thee galf of difference which had hitherto
inspeenabia, La the way of stalls, this question, he
• Cobden) wild not have believed it. (Cheers.) Where,
this, was sow the greet *buds to • satisfactory system
heag lamest ? He was bound to say, and with the greatest
regsriao mid it, that It lay amongst his regrettable friends
of the ulitatary priaciple, whose individual efforts to pro-
sees education dowsed so much credit. Could the hen.
member for Rochdale say now. that a national system of
education like that of the Belted States was destructive
of civil and religious freedom ? The observation of
the right hoe. member for Oxfordshire had much
truth, that children were not sent to school become the
punts weld not dispense with their earnings ; but that
difficulty was increased by their having to pay 3d. or 6d. •
week for each child, and would be leereaed if free schools
were established. He (Mr. Cobden) did not agree that the
education of schoolmasters was carried too far; if It was
found that their training was too good fer the functions
they had afterwards to perform, that was because then was
not an &gigues notion of whit, their functions ought,
to be, and the children were withdrawn from,
school at to* early an age. The remedy for these
evils was to be found elsewhere. The prefessioa
of the schoolmaster should be better appreciated, and he',
should not have to find himself in an inferior social positive
to that of a clerk in a counting-hones or at a railway station.'
As for thi children, he had heard It said there should be a
compulsory law requiring children to be educated. That
had been adopted to • certain *Resat in the factory.. dis-
tricts, where the children employed in factories were re-
quired to have • certain degree cf education; and get*
rally, the great manufacturers of the country had lest
themeelhe meet wearily to that law, end had
COMA that sehrealle prov.ded is their vicinities
tbesomptime et the younger hands iatesdad to work
N their estaidiehments. He did not think there would he
any great dillswity in carrying out a system of
duafiws but the schools must be provided first. • haus,
Om Imre manufacturers who required the children see-
pleoPdl by them to be educated, but generally these were
men who took such interest in education that they had pro.
vided schools in the neighbourhood, and thee no great hard-
ship was inflicted. But if the state interfered, and required
that every child should be educated, under penalties to be
imposed saghe parent, while it failed to provide schools,
such as existed in America, that would be beginning at the
wrong end. (Hear, hear.) He believed that the difficuity
arose in greet pert from the low materiel condition of the
mass of the people, end he much regretted that the tutu,
tazatioa laid co for the purposes of the war would very mesh
tend to impair their resources. However unsatisfactory the

[TWOPE r C E.

state of popular education might have been twelve month'
ago when the right hoe. gentleman '(Sir J. Faisal/toe)
took up this matter, that wan at the close of a period of
great prosperity; tied he (Mr. Cobden) very mut h heated
that we were now approaching a time when we should me a
great reverse in the fortunes of this country, sad +boa the
mass of the people would sink lower and tower in their
social condition ; he had no doubt we should see an increase
of crime and pauperism, and that the labouring
class would have still greater dial:silty in sparing the means
of their children's education. Something bad been said of
establiabiog a department of education; now, that was
beginning at the wrong tad. The Howse of Commons wan
p:aced in an anomalous position by allowing the Committee
of Council, year aft-er sear, to increase the halation of the
country by these grants, while parliament had not yet been
able to come to a decision as to the system of education
which should be adopted. He admitted that great good
had been done by the money thus soled, sad he thankfully
accepted that means of doing it, as it were surreptitiously,
through the agency of the Privy Council, but the whole
subjeet, and especially any project toe keel raft In
•Mikateeheele. should be diseased end settled by the Roues
of Commons ; and that must be done before there could be
• national system of education worthy of being represented
by a minister of the department. (Cheers) The failure of
the Scotch Education Bill this session was certainly net en-
s:Ganging, but that was defeated by ecombination of mem-
bers who had very different view', and he bad no doubt that
if government would frame a measure to satisfy the just de-
mands of all clamor, it would not be likely to be defeated by
the high church and voluntary patties voting together
against it.
Mr. THORNELY said it was his intention to vote for
this grant, for he thought that with both systems—the go-
vernment and the voluntary--edueation was still much
behind what it ought to be. He had been fur inlay years a
subscriber to the British and Foreign Schools—which in-
: stitutioe, he believed, had done a great deal of good in this
I country, and also in foreign parts, to which their system of
education extended. He had however heard, with much
regret, that doettinal matters were now taught in those
schools, and that there had been a departure from the prin-
ciple on which they had been founded—that of teaching the
Scriptures without note or comment. If Lie were so, be
hoped that the system would be corrected, and that there
would be a return to the original principle.
Mr. HEYWOOD wished to call the attention of the com-
mittee to a grievance to which the Unitarians were sub-
jected with respect to the British sod Foreign Schools.
These schools had received many donations from Unitarians,
but those having the direction of them had gradually intro-
duced nothing hut Trinitarian doctrines to the great annoy-
'ace of those Unitarians whose children had attended. A
cue had been submitted to consul who advised that inch
conduct was a breach of trust on the part of the directors.
Nothing, however, had been done, and he therefore traited
that the government would use its influence to put an end
to so improper a state of things.
Mr. CHERTHAM hoped that his hon. friend (Mr.
Barnes), eesaideriug the state of this question, would, not
pus' his amendment.
Lord R. CECIL took that opportunity of urging the
Lord Advoeste, if he introduced a Scotch education bill
neat session, to introduce it in the first instance in the
other house. (Hear.)
Mr. BARNES withdrew his amendment.
Mr. SCOTT thought that a definite statemeat ought to
be made by the Lord Advocate as to the course which was
to be pursued by the government with regard to the salaries
of Scotch schoolmasters.

After a few words from Sir G. (lazy,
The amendment wu withdrawn, and the vote agreed to.
The following vote of 216,200 t. for education in Ireland
was also passed alter some conversation.
One or two other votes having been agreed to, the hones
resumed, and having disposed of some other business, wu
counted out at 20 minCes pad 2.

THE NEW BEER ACT.