The Press.
London, England, 1854-02-11 00:00:00

THE PRESS.

a manner which extended the charge of corruption
'over the whole body of Irish members. This Mr.
Butt denounced as an injustice. Even if the facts
alleged were true, it was scandalous to attribute guilt
to all on account of the offences of one or two. The
honour not only of the representatives for Ireland
was, however, involved, and the charge could not be

passed over in silence. Citing precedents for the
course he was adopting, the hon. member then indi-
cated his intention of treating the article in question
as a breach of privilege, but not with any purpose of
instituting proceedings against the publisher of the
Times. The time for such things was passed away,

nor was the honour of the hou,eto be cleared thus.

But he should propose the appointment of a commit-
tee of inquiry, by whom the charge could be probed
to the bottom. Whether well or ill founded, it was

necessary that the allegations should be investigated,
the truth discovered, and the guilty punished. He
moved first that the articles should be read by the

clerk at the table. This motion was Feconded by
Mr. J. O'CONNELL and carried. When the articles had

been read,

Mr. BUTT moved the appointment of the commit-
tee of inquiry.
Mr. J. O'CoNNELL seconded this motion also, con-
curring in the wish for inquiry, but fully convinced
that the charges would turn out to be miserable
calumnies. _

Lord J. RUSSELL also admitted the propriety of an
investigation, and pointed out a ready means of

certeining the truih :

" It is due to the honour of Parliament, to the character
of the Overnment, and to the character of those Irish
members who have been included in that sweeping de-
nunciation to which the hon. and learned gentleman has
called our attention. We have the names of Dr. Gray and
Mr. Kelly as the persons who have made these charges.
We have, therefore, the means of investigation, and I
trust that investigation will be pursued to the utmost ex-
tent—( cheers)—in order to ascertain whether there is any
truth whatever in these statements. if such offers were
made, I trust the committee will ascertain from whom
they proceeded and to whom they were addressed; and, in
short, that they will inquire into all the particulars and
details connected with the transactions.—( Hear, hear.)"

Mr. J. BAIL denied, from personal knowledge, that
corruption had crept into the appointments of paid
guardians in Ireland.

Mr. LUCAS had been present at the Tuam dinner,
had heard the charges made by Dr. Gray and Mr.
Kelly, and felt bound to state his firm conviction that
they were true. He believed also that they were only
part of the truth. He had himself brought forward
similar accusations "in a general way," and was
sure that it was " utterly impossible for any one to
take part in the political conversation that goes on
with reference to the management of affairs in Ire-
land without hearing very frequently cases of this
kind mentioned upon evidence which it is impossible
for any man to disbelieve." Some cases of the kind
were then stated by the bon. member with acknow-
ledged reserve, because he was at present unable to
mention the names of his informants; his narrative,
being frequently interrupted by murmurs from the
Ministerial benches. On the whole case he pro-
nounced his opinion that a regular " commerce of
corruption" had been carried on between the Irish
members and successive Whig Governments; that
such was the very rationale of the system by which
the Whigs kept themselves in power. In support of
this assertion he related an anecdote of the late Mr.
Sheil :
"I have heard mentioned dozens of these cases, but I
heard one fact mentioned which is worth a great many
isolated cases, because it refers to a system of government.
It refers to something which fell from the lips of the late
Mr. Shell, in the interval between the Durham letter—
which I dare say the noble lord the member for London
recollects—(a laugh)—and the meeting of that Parliament
to which the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill was to be proposed.
During that interval some of Mr. Shell's friends were very
anxious, I am told, to know his opinion as to how the
government of the country was to be managed in future if
the Whigs quarrelled with the Irish members; and Mr.
Shell answered, as it was reported to me (and the authority
on which I have it is so good that I have no hesitation in
saving I believe it)—Mr. Shell's answer was, ' Lord J.
Russell has calculated everything minutely. (men-
tioning same one connected with the Treasury—l am not
sure about the name, and therefore I will not mention it)
holds the Irish members in the hollow of his hand.'
(` Hear, hear,' and laughter.) The gentleman to whom
Mr. Sheil gave that information was rather curious to
know what this figurative language of one gentleman hold-
ing so many other gentlemen in the hollow of his hand
e,,tdd possibly mean, and the explanation given to him, I
am told, was this :—That before any great debate was to
come on—when the division, as the writer in the Times, or
as Mr. Kelly says, the. Government is hard pressed—on
the eve of such a division gentlemen received a circular
stating that such and such a place ras vacant, and that it
awaited their recommendation to have it filled up ; that
the recommendation was not filled up till after the division
—that is, as I understand it, until after the member had
given the vote in favour of the Government, or (if he
happened to represent a very unmanageable constituency)
until after he had stayed away. Mr. Sheil added—and of
this it is possible the Government is not cognisant—that
a certain number of Irish members were in the habit,

125

when they got these recommendations, of taking them
forthwith to a broker, and of selling them in the very
way which we have heard described in the speeches of
Dr. Gray and Mr. Kelly, which form the basis of the pre-
sent motion."

Mr. T. DuxeomaF. contended that it was not the
Irish section of the house only whose honour had

been impeached, and read from the reports of a
recent trial a statement made by Mr. Hudson to the
effect that certain money or shares had been appro-
priated to the purpose of obtaining the good offices
of "certain persons of influence connected with the
landed interest and Parliament."

The motion was unanimously agreed to.
On Wednesday Mr. liensow claimed the indul-
gence of the house while he adverted to the state-
ment made on the previous evening by the hon.
member for Finsbury. Mr. Duncombe bad been
neglectful of the usual courtesy which members
practise towards each other when anything personal
is intended to be said. Had he received notice no

inconvenience would have prevented him from being
present. Mr. Duncombe's charge against him of
having tampered with the honour of members of
Parliament was founded upon the statements of the
Times newspaper. His accuser, however, had en-
tirely overlooked the letter of his (Mr. Hudson's)
solicitor, inserted in the same journal, entirely re-
pudiating the construction which the journalist had
put upon the transaction as it appeared in the law
proceedings. Mr. Hudson asserted upon his honour
that he had never made, never meant to make, and

had no grounds whatever for making, a charge of
corruption against any members of Parliament. Re
was morally right, although he had been found
to be legally wrong, and consequently compelled to
refund money which he had never received. Con-
scious in his own rectitude, be would wait with
confidence the decision of time, when the public
improvements he had been instrumental in devising
or aiding would be calmly considered in connection
with the means by which they were accomplished.
He feared no scrutiny ; the more searching it was
the better would it be for him.
LEADERSHIP OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.
A committee was moved for on Thursday by Mr.
CAvi.Eit, "to consider the duties of the member lead-
ing the Government in the House of Commons, and
the expediency of attaching office and salary thereto."
The hon. member supported his motion on the plea
of justice to the individual who now performed
laborious services, whose nature and extent he
sketched, without receiving any remuneration. The
position occupied by the noble member for London
was altogether anomalous, and he wished for a com-
mittee, in order to have that anomaly put in train for
rectification.
Mr. STIRUNG seconded the motion.
Sir C. Woon found practical difficulties and objec-
tions in the way of attaching salary to an office so in •
definite and undefinable as that of the so-called leader
of the Commons. He objected also to a proposal
which tended to establish a general rule upon an
exceptional case. The duties of lerdership were al-
together distinct from those of the public service, and,
though often performed by the holders of high office,
were in themselves of a most vague and volunteer
character.
Mr. WlLLums remarked that the present were not
days for creating new offices and adding to the public
burdens.
Mr. WALPOLE agreed with Sir C. Wood in thinking
that the office of leader of that house was one wholly
unknown to the constitution, and further thought
that the precedent which had been established by the
noble lord was one that was likely to give rise to
much inconvenience. They were apt to talk of
ministerial responsibility, but the real responsibility
of a minister was connected with the specific duties
of the office he held. The house ought to be cautious
in dealing with this precedent, or it would be liable
to be acted upon in future years :
" In the other Bosse of Parliament they had certain
instances where members of the Government had been
only members of the Cabinet having no particular office
attached to them, but in the House of Commons there was
only one instance where a member of the Cabinet had held
a seat in the Government without filling any of the recog-
nised offices of State. Such was now the position of the
noble lord, who, ever since he had resigned the office of
Foreign Minister, had remained the organ of the Govern-
ment without holding an office of responsibility beyond
that of Privy Councillor. Now, he had pointed out the
inconvenience that might arise in that position with refer-
ence to the grave question of ministerial responsibility ;
but to his mind a still greater difficulty would hereafter
arise if the precedent now set of permitting a member of
the house to be the organ of the Government without
holding office should be generally followed. The incon-
venience which might arise would be of a twofold character.
First of all, the Crown might select for its principal ad-
viser a member of the house who could take the position
of the noble lord without going back to be re-elected by
his constituents. (Hear.) The other inconvenience was
one which would be felt by the country generally. If this
precedent were to be followed it would deprive the country
of the means of knowing who were the real advisers of