The Express.
London, England, 1863-07-18 00:00:00

THE EXPRISS, SATURDAY EVENING, JULY 18, 1863.

Thus it would be seen that there had been a large inereue of
direct nominations made by the government. In IStil,of the
persons who were examined. 53 per cent had obtained ap-
pointments, while in 1862 only 42 per cent, of these exam-
used had been appointed. When the noble lord the mem-
ber fur King's Lyn* (Lord Stanley) was in office he disposed
of all vacancies in the India office by open competition, but
now iu that office that system seemed to have been put an
sod to—(beer, hear)--and be believed that no minister of
the crown would give a clerkship away by open competition.
In sums of the offices they had to cmplain of this retrograde
movement being folio wed more than iu others—for instance in
the Wm-office in 1861 only two vacancies were filled up by
direct nomination, while in 1862 $2 wag:minim were so tilled
tip. The civil service commissioners reported that so far as
they were concerned things were alwolutely worse now
than they ever had been. (Hew, hear.) He would repeat
that the public generally and the members of that house
had been positively deluded. The patronage of the govern.
ment had increased very considerably. and the boo. gentle-
man, the patronage secretary, had now three vacanciee to
• fill up instead of two as in 1861, consequently his duties had
increased to that extent. The horn gentleman concluded
by moving the address above mentioned.
Mr. B. COCHRANE wished to move as an amendment to
the motion of hie boo. friend the sub stitutioo of the words,
"on approved teat examination," :it place of the words
"open competition." He regretted that his boo. friend
bad thought it necessary to bring that subject spin under
the notice of the house, and he thought it desirable that
they should allow a large time to elapse before they came to
a decision with respect to the working of the system. He
differed from his hon. friend upon that subject, and from all
the information he had been able to collect from the offices
of the different deparmeuta, he was led to believe that the
system of open competition was very detrimental to the
public service.
- - -

The SPEAKER intimated that an amendment could not
be proposed to a motion made on going into committee of
supply.
The amendment, therefore, was not put.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
house had not yet acquired sufficient experience of
the working of the system to enable them to pro-
nounce any decided opinion upon its merits. 'The
system of competition instead of diminishing visa ad-
vancing. In 1838 the number of successful candidates was
may 192, in 1861 it woe 736, and in 1862 it was 264. The
number of candidates eligible to be examined in 181.8
was 617, in 1862 the number was 864. It had been said
, that is former times there were abuses, and until per-
sons were put into offios ; but were there no unfit persona
now? (Hear, hear.) Of the 861 persons examined in 1862
for 289 pleas, 376 were below the standard of attainment
oecamary to pass the examination. It was all very well to
talk about a severe test examination, but it was perfectly
well known to thosewho had to conduct test examinations
that they found themselves iu a continual conflict with
a mass of personal, party, and other selfish interests
which, rooted and grounded io human nature,
exercised a motional pressure upon the positive test exami-
nations, tending always to lower the standard. It was not
bemuse competition was in itself a perfect system that some
resort bad been had to it, but because it afforded the best,
and. perhaps, the only means of contending against the con-
', smut lowering action which atom from selfish motives. The
committee of 1861 made two principal recommends-
tious ; one was a limited eampetitian amoogst five can-
didates where there was only one vacancy ; and
where there were several vacancies together, in
the proportion of three to one vacancy. The other main
recommendation was to confine the competition to those who
had previous test examinations. That was a most
eat recommendation. With record to the first
recommendation, the principle of competition fol. clerkships
had been considerably extended since the commissioners'
report. There were 147 offices in which competition was
in use, and only 20 in the list supplied by the eOnlinienOnere
in which competition was not introduced, and of that num.
her • very large portion were quasi-iodependent offices. and
not wider the control of the executive government. With
regard to the second recommendation, in 1861 the Treasury
I provided. preliminary testexaminatioa for all the offices under
their control Clerkships were to be taken in those offices by
lone but tested candidates, and care was takes that the
number of connetiton should be three—the recommenda-
tion of having five war confined to where the vacancy was a
single one. The Secretary for War had recently set on foot a
similar plan, by which clerkships were competed for by
tested candidates in the proportion of four to each v
or five in • single vacancy. So that there was ngirlialli;
whole a state of progress and not of retrogression with re-
mud to these appointments. He was at a loss to explain
the very large number of nominations which bad been made
without competition in 1861. It must certainly be owing to
some casual circuinstasiose, bat the fact of a positive increase
was in his opinion the result of a steady progress dependent
upon no temporary or casual cause, but belonging to the
gradual extension of the system among the public offices.
lie trusted the hon. member would not press his motion.
Mr. MAG LT IR F. said the important question to be con-
sidered was whether all the nominations to the civil service
were to be left in the hands of the government, and to be
confined therefore to one side of the house. The Treasury
were opposed to any system which was likely to take the
patronage out of the hands of the government, whereas the
principle of nomiestion to an open competition was that it
should be open to all. In his opinion every member of the
community should have the opportunity of proving himself
qualified for a government appointment. He had canstastly
been asked to apply to the government for nominations, but
be had only complied on two occasions during the eleven
years he had had a seat in that house.

Mr. BENTINCK believed that the system which had
bees introdueed had neither tended to decrease the patronage
of the government nor to improve the quality of the
the

Mr. CLAY should vote for the motion if it were pressed
to a division, but be hoped it would be withdrawn ; for,
though be went as far se the hon. member for King's
Coanty, he would not perhaps go so fast. The clump
already made was a considerable one, and they ought not to
proceed so fast as to outstrip public opinion.
Mr. M. MILNMI thought that hon. member would only
be too glad to get rid of the extreme bore of nominating
candidates for public appointment.. If by any contrivance
this system of nomination could be diepsnaed with, it would
be • great advantage to the coustry. (Hear, hear.) The
meritorious poor man was at present altogether shut out
, front these appointment., sad it was • matter of money
from beginning to end—of cramming by professional cram-
mere. is certainly was not a healthy state of things.
Lord PALMERSTON conceived that, according to the
constitution, those who were honoured with the confidence
of the crown were respoorible for fining up all offices in the
service of the crown, subject of cosine to the duty of taking
are that no parson was appointed who was not duly quail-
fled. These 000ditions were fulfilled by the existing ar-
rangements, sod he saw no reason whatever for changing
the system. which worked well, and ensured the employ.
ment of good and proper persons in the public service.
Mr. HENLEY generally concurred in the remarks ;i7xie
premier, but condemned the 'yearn of cramming for the
examination, as anything but a fair test of the mental itc-
ipurernente sad ability of the candidates. The present
system, however. had not yet had sufficient time to enable
• the house to come to • sound and final decision on the
matter.

Mr. HRIFFITH believed the adoption of the competitive
system had trebled the patronage of the government
The house having divided, the motion of Mr. Hennessy
wee negatived by 118 to 57.

shown'sufficientivounds for the motion which Le bad brought
forward. (Hear, hear.)
Lord FF.FI BOY cossidered that the law applicable to
street 111111K1.1411 wee already sufficiently stringent. That
had bees seen in the case of Mr. Babbage, who bad
put the law in force, and punished, very unjustly
as he thought, • number of poor musicians for
what he no doubt thought very disagreeable.
He could not concur io the sufficiency of the grounds put
forward by the hon, gentleman for iocressing the stringency
of the law. In the brat place it was clear that the bend.
must be enjoyed or they would not be paid for, awl
the great number of bands frequenting Belgravia and
other wealthy districts at the west-sod of the town only
proved that the aristocracy liked them. (Cries of "No,
no," and " Hear, hvar.") Not • single casehad been proved
in which the men sammoowl before a magistrate had re-
fused to go away when told to do so. Mr. Babbage quite
failed to prove that fact in his extensive experience. The
fact was, however, that the streets must be kept clear for
the following of legitimate occupations by all classes, and if
the bends were to be put down then they should also put
down those great drays which passed through the streets Won
with barrels of Bass's Pale Ale "—(laughter)--and which
fi ightoned their horses as they passed. (" Oh." and "Hear.")
He would enter his protest against the declaration of the
boo. member for Derby that the l►w required altering. He
thought there ought to be no change in it. The house had
made no provision for the amusement and recreation of the
working and middle dames, and consequently these bands
played in the squares and public streets to provide that
amusement and recreation for the people. ([lest, he►r.)
He would suggest that the hoc. gentleman the Under.
Secretary of State for the Home Department should bring in
• bill for the purpose of providing places for the bands to
play in, sod then ro person would have to complain of a
nuisance. (Hear, hear,

Mr. C. BENTLNCK said that if these musicians ought to
be retained in the streets because people paid them, so
ought beggars. (Ob.) There was no place in the world
where there were so many mendicents as in London, Rome
not excepted. (Oh, oh.) He was one of those who suffered
a great deal from these street Lauda. Fate had cast his lot
to reside in a street which bad • square at one end and a
large open apace at the other, and there were often organs,
wandering minstrels, and negro melodista in that locality—
in fact, it frequently happened that there was an
organ about 50 yards on one side of his home
and a band 50 yards on the other, with a lot of
wandering minstrels between those distances. ("Oh," and
laughter.) He acknowledged that he had not sufficient
relined taste to appreciate these things. (Laughter.) If the
motile lord were to engage these people to play within the
precincts of his own house, or in the area, his neighbours
would be entitled to bring an action against him for
damages. (Hear, hear.) He dissented from the noble iord's
view of the law. It was only householders that could
cause these people to be sent away, and that only under a
penalty of 40s in ease of refusal to move on. (Oh, oh.)
The difficulty often was to find • householder to give the
order, and then there was a difficulty in finding a policeman
to give effect to it, and after all it was difficult to satisfy a
magistrate that there was "reasonable cause," for the magi-
strike had differed among themselves as to the meaning of
those words. He thought the law ought to be mewled,
and that this sort of musk should be made • personal
nuisance. It was not only those who had calculations to
make who found street music a nuisance, but those who
had to prepare speeches. (Laughter.) It seemed to him
' that the act in force should be amended by striking out the
words " illness of an inmate, or other reasonable cause;"
and he bored the government would take the subject into
consideration during the recess. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. MALL'S said the house ought to feel very much
obliged to the hon. member for Derby for bringing this
subject forward. (Laughter.) It was not a laughing
matter, for he thought every man ought to be allowed to
have the full enjoyment of his property. He resided in one
of those places—a parallelogram—but called a square, and
he was • very sensitive man. He had not to prepare his
speeches, for he did not often speak in that house. (Oh,
and laughter.) But be had seriously considered whether he
should not reside away from London, so great had this pul-
sator, become. (Hear, hear.) When • band came to his
house lie sometimes sent out his servant, end the men
moved on, but only about twenty yards or so. Frequently
in an evening from eleven to hail-past twelve o'clock his
neighbourhood was favoured with • round of the
Old Hundredth. (Laughter.) He had to do some work at
home, and he was obliged to do it in • morning before the
musicians visited the neighbourhood, and before three or
four grinding organs could be heard, as sometimes they
could, at the same time. That was the only time that be
could enjoy his own home. (Hem.)
Mr. BRUCE said the hon. member for Derby bad por-
trayed very vividly his sufferings from street music, but he
had given no optima as to the provision of • remedy. It
seemed to him (Mr. Bruce) that only two remedies could be
applied which were not already provided by the act, and
one was that street music should be actually prohibited.
The hon. and learned gentleman who spoke last did not
desire to prohibit beads, but street organs. Now, no doubt
as he passed through streets he saw crowds of little
anthem' lingering around those organs, and therefore what
was unacceptable at the westead was very welcome in other
parts of Loads,. (Hear, bear.) He believed that no ore
would be so hard hearted as to prohibit these organs alto-
gether. The boa. member for Taunton wished that every
person should have the power of ordering street musicians
to remove to • dietetic* from his house. No doubt the
great majority of the house was opposed to this tort of
MOM because they were business men and went to bed late,
but did the great majority of the population think so? Per-
haps the constituents of the hon. member for Derby would
vote for • continuance of street music! If the law should
be amended as desired it would be the memos of driving all
street music away from certain neighbourhoods. He
thought the remedies proposed would be worse than the
present evils. (Hear, hear.)

Bir J. fiHRLI:EY thought the hon. member for Derby
wan mistaken in supposing that the people of this metro-
polis were opposed to street music. He was the treasurer
of the hands which played in Victoria and Regent's Parka.
(Question.) At first there was some difficulty in consti-
tilting these hands, but the people had approved of them,
and they were row self-supportiag. If any hon. gentleman
would take a walk upon any Sunday evening in either of
those parks, be would see masses of people enjoying them-
selves, and that being the caws be should be sorry to see any
proposition made to ■mend the law. (Hear, hear.)
The subject then dropped.

Sir C. 130 W YER said he approved of lb. reading of the
bible, believing that people would thereßy ascertain the
truth of the Rogue catholic faith, and become better
ChriAliKus. The question, however, in this case, was
the rule of faith as laid down by the Roman catholic
church for the guidance of those in connection
with it. Mr. Matamoras made no progress is
Spain, because he represented no Spanish interest.
A protestaut ides did not eau in Spain, so that it was no
wooden that the undertaking did not prosper. It was also
stated that the agents employed by the English committee
were propagandists of socialist opinions. This came to the
can of the government, who might have respected their
zeal if they had believed it to be sincere, but not believing
it they had applied to them the constitutional law of Spain.
What right, however,had we to criticise the law of a foreign
country—a law with which the whole Spanish
nation was thoroughly satisfied? He (the hon. baronet)
was perfectly convinced that no Eoglish statesman
would act wisely that attempted to interfere. He
might add that one of Maumoru's companions had
returned to the Catholic religion, had ezpiatd his apostasy
by a great penance, and was now a sincere member of the
Spanish church. He (the boa. member) did not think that
this matter was one with which the Howe of Commons had
anything to do. The circumstances of Spain were entirely
different from those ot the United Kingdom. In it there
will but one religion ; with us there were innumerable sects.
With us everybody was necessarily left free to follow his
own bent in religious matters ; but in Spain it was possible
to enforce the national faith ; and foreign propagandism was
repudiated by every Spaoiard, Dot only as an offetios against
their religion, butaa aensive totheir patriotic feeliogs.(bar.)

THE ROUPELL FORGERIES.

The proceedings in this case were resumed at the ,1
Chelmsford muss yesterday.
Anse Mr. Roswell had been examined on Thursday he
wee taken back to London, in charge of tweet the warden of
Pentonville prison. lie did not exhibit any appearanos of
feeling at the pintaill position in which be was placed, but
answered every question that wee put to him with the
greatest possible 000lnese and deliberation. kle was brought
down to Chelmsford again this morning, when his further
examination was proceeded with.
Mr. Roupell said, in answer to questions put by Mr.
Lush—l cannot tell what became of the original drafts of
the leases of this property after I bad Doped them and
made the alteration in them, but ! believe that I destroyed
them. When fair copies had been made of the leases I
took them to Mr. Whitaker to be engrossed, and authorised
him to raise as much money as ha could upon the property,
and I understood that he applied to several gentlemen with
that object, and among them toe Mr. Longman, and I think
the sum of 6,0001. was specially mentioned to be obtained
from him. . . .

Baron Channel' interposed, and expressed hi opinion
that it was quite unoecemary to go into those details. The
fraud and forgery had been positively spoken to, and it
really appeared to Lim uunecemary to examine the witness
as to the particulars.
Mr. Itoupell then proceeded to state that he subsequently
executed a lease to the present defendants of the Essex
property that was now in dispute, and that the transaction
took place on the 36th of January, 1836, and he said he
afterwards forged fictitious lessee as from one of the de.
fondant., and be induced John Truman to attest the sig.
nature of that gentleman, by telling him that he waked
him to attest his own signature. The witness then ex-
plained the proceeding he resorted to in order to deceive
the witness Truman, and he said that he mixed several
documents together and wrote his name to one of the
false documents.
Baron Chaunell wished to know how the witness induced
Truman to sign four documents when he mat have known
that he was only required to sign two leases.
Mr. Roupell said that Truman placed great confidence in
him, and he was no lawyer, and might not have known that
be was signing more instruments than were necessary.
This was all the explanation he could give. EU deceived
him by mixing the documents altogether, and placing a
piece of blotting paper over the names of the persons who
purported to be the real parties to the deeds.
Baron Channell—That is your explanation!
Mr. Roupell— It is.
. .

He was then further questioned at very great length
with regard to the transactions that took piece between
himself and Mr. Whitaker relative to the mum of money
upon the forged deeds, but it will not be necessary to go
into the details, which were very complicated, and ap-
peared to have little or nothing to do with the real ques-
tion at liens. . . _

Mr. Boupell then stated that before Mr. Longman would
advance any money be insisted upon having • valuation of
the estate, and he employed Mr. Foster, of Pall-mall, to go
over the property for that purpose, and be accompanied
him, and informed him of the particulars, in accordance wi.h
the false statement as to the rent and the term of the
lease, and upon thia false statement be made • valuation,
and Mr. Longman advanoed 6,0001. He subsequently, how.
ever, called in the money, and was paid off ; and down to
the time when his father died, on the 12th of September,
1856, he had not been able to raise sufficient money upon
the state to pay off the amounts he required to relieve
himself of his embarrassments. His father was ailing for
about • fortnight before be died, but he went to bin busi-
ness in Cross-street as usual, and st the time of his death
tritium' was negotiating with Mr. Whitaker for a lease, but
the arrangement came to nothing, and the present defen-
dants ultimately advanced him 12,0001. upon mortme of
the property in question. After some further evidence
Mr. Hormell said that he burned a great many documents
connected with these transactions on the night before be
left Eagles:l, and be also stated that Mr. Truman, whose
name appeared es the attesting witness to some of the
documents, was the superintendent of the brick-field upon
the Roopell-park estate.
Mr. Morin having again objected to the reception of some
of the evidence,
Baron Channel! said he thought the evidence was admis-
sible upon the ground that the witness had admitted hie-
self to have committed a very wicked crime, and if be was
to be believed, the counsel for the plaintiff was juetitird io
proving everything he could to show that he wee speaking
the truth.

Mr. [taupell then said that when he found himself hope-
lessly involved at the commencement of the year 1862, be
coosulered what was bast to be done, and resolved upon
making a communication to Mr. Whitaker, and be did co a
few days before he left England, in March, 1862. His
father died in Croesstreet, and at the time he died witrea
was not aware that he bad made a codicil to his will a few
days before.
Mr. Bovill objected to any evidence being given in rela-
tion to the will. The plaintiff did not claim under any
will, but under a deed of gift, and they had nothing to do
with the will, or whether it wee genuine or not.
Berjeant ,fibee submitted that it was necessary to show
how it happened that the witness obtained the entire con-
trol over his father's property after his death.
The court, after some technical discussion, decided that
the evidence as to the will was admimible.

Mr. Reopen was accordingly examined with reference to
the forged will, and be repeated the evidence he gave on the
former trial. He said that he knew nothing about the
codicil until a few days before his father's death, when he
wished him to draw up soother codicil. His father said
that as the property at Roupell-park was liable to litigation
and required *great deal of improvement, it would be better
to leave the property to witness subject to annuities to his
mo.ber and other members a the family. At this time he
saw the will of 1850, and the codicil that was made on the
10th of August, but he did not read it. He said he advised
his father not to make any alteration in the will, and
nothing was done. At this time he exprcted his father
would die, but did not expect his death would occur so
soon. He was informed of his father's death at Brixton on
the rooming of the 12th September, 1856, and he and his
mother went to Cross-street immediately, and wittier wen;
into him father's bedroom alone. His mother was in the
room below. He examined the escritoire sod took out the
genuine will and thrust it into his pocket. The codicil was
annexed to it at this time. He afterwards prepared a fresh
will (the one that has bees so often alluded to and by which
the whole of the property of the deceased was vested in Mrs.
Roupell, and the wanes@ was appoisted joint executor with
her). He placed the will in a writing.desk sod carried it
about with him for several years. He did not read
the will mail a week after it came into his poinesslon. The
writing-desk was a entail one, and he constantly carried it
about with him. It cootained besides the will some cor-
respondence of immediate nterest. The genuine will re-
maned in hie poseessioo until the night before he left England
in March, 18b2, when he Mimed at with a number of other
papers. By the genuine will the Wsrley estate was left
to his brother Richard, the present plaintiff, and this coo.
firmed him in the resolution be had previously formed to
forge a fresh will. He expleined that the way the signature
of John Muggeridge, one of the supposed witnesses to the
forged will, came upon the document was thus. Mugge-
ridge was an old man who was in the habit o: collecting
rent for his father, and he went to him, and gave him 5/.
to buy mourning with. and he signed • receipt, and he said
that he then forged his signature. Muggeridge was very
old, eighty-four ; and he thought be was not likely to live
long, ad in point of fact he died shortly afterwards. The
tritium gave these details with the most perfect sang-froid,
and did not seem to feel the slightest shame or regret
at having committed such flagrant acts. He wrote a por-
tion of the forged will with • gold pen, and his father's
name he wrote with a pen which he bad mended him-
self. Witness attended the f 'trend of his father, and
the forged will was reed afterwards at Amid-house.
He aubeequently took the will to his father's proctors,
Messrs. Ring and Co., and they suggested that his mother
should also prove under the will, but at his request she
wrote a latter to Mews. Ring, in which she expressed her
unwillingness to do so. His mother knew very little of his
father's affairs. Witness made a rough draft of a letter to
Messrs. Ring. and his sister Sandi drew it up. It was to the
effect that his mother felt herself incompetent to take any
part in business transactions, and wished everything to be
left to her son William, in whom she placed the utmost
reliance. By the genuine will the property of his father was
devised pretty equally between the different members of
the family, end witness was described as "My son, called
William Roupell." The seine description was given of all
the other children except Richard. After his father's death
witness, in the character of executor, assumed the entire
control over the property, and he appointed young Mug-
geridge, the eon of the limo)n he had before referred to, as
the receiver of his rents.

Mr. Hoopsll was then cross-examined by Mr. Bovill, but
very briefly. He said he had already taken God to witness
that the will be now said was forged was genuine. He swore
to that fact before the surrogate. By so doieg be committed
perjury. His object sow waa to do justice. He wished
the jury to believe that be stole hie father's will ; that he
burned it ; that he forged a fresh one ; that be forged a deed
of gift; that be also forged leases—forged the names of the
tooants—and that, " pram ically," he cheated the defendants
of 12,0001. He slso would admit that be had "robbed"
hi father of 10,0110/. in cash, and that he had chested his
family, and now wished to get the property beck. He had
not exactly " cheated " his mother of some Mario. Anne.
mice shares, but he fraudulently disposed of them, and
kept the money. (A laugh.)
Baron Channell What is the differsace between that and
cheating her out of them? (A laugh.)
Witness —I admit there Is only a diffemnee in words.
I came here from Pentoriville Prison, where I am under
sentence of penal servitude for life, for forgery.
Mr. Bovill—la that the prison dress you have ?
Mr. Houpell—lt is not.
Mr. Bovill—Then you admit that you have cheated your
family ; and is it not a fact that by meats of the pro-
ramifies. you have mentioned you have obtained more than
200.0001. ?
Witness—l admit that this has been the effect of my
conduct, but I did not iateod to do as I have done on.
Mr. Bovill—Why did you do it flea?
Mr. Boupell—l did it to escape a very great difficulty.
Mr. Bovill— And you committed perjury, I suppose, with
the same object
Mr. Reopen (coolly)—Yes.

In .never to further questions,
Mr. Reopen arid that muss be had boos coufined in Pen-
Wardle Prism be luul eceseionsilr bees is cemmunicetiew
with Mown. Linkister, the solicitors to the pluutif, sad
ba bad also mesa the Wier oesiaismily.

Milled and Published by Wtmaex knee Husk of No. I.
Lombard street, to the City of London. Printer, at the
011oe, la Lombardotteet, In the Product of Whltetrfors.-.
SOVADAT, JOLT 18, VIOL