The Express.
London, England, 1855-06-08 00:00:00

lir'

the coequal a Turkey, sad that Genstsatiaople was
setup to be used es a entre from ' whisk all
Zeno might be threatened. It was sot samelp,that
an insulting embassy had bees motto Coestaatimple, it was
sot that Russia* arias had crossed the Torkidehoseildries,
It wee that the Witten* would be • staadiaitheneagaiasti
Zoom, and the weed of their Malay me fist the saighti
of Resin was to be crippled mil Mr Wine erligieselleithes
away ; our *blot beteg sat simply to pretest the Tartish
empire, bet the entire laterests of eivilisatioa. (Hear,
Mar.) We wad to war, disseter followed MR war, sad a
mottos was made is this how by myself withal led to very
impartial esamaseaess, too ementence being the utter
destateMes of Lod Alserdees's goirernmest. This house
pared • moieties, by a majority uspreeedeated, against
the mode ia whisk the war had been **admitted, and sub's-
gently 'Misted a essuattes to inquire into the drone-
stuns ; bat beim. the vete of cuisine std the appellee-
west of the semmlitee, the mulish:, of the sells lord the
mobs, lee Mania, came into of ot. Thatmlaistry the
km. gmademes Imbed, when it must have bees doer cad
teat to everylsedy that the mamitto would be li
Weever, astwitbsileodleig that difficulty, the raigrtialltil
jibed the admisistratioo aad the lint geodes
CPI= subsequently before tichouse was the spa
Oatmeal et the committee. Thereupon the right Ilea.
gentleman the opportunity of leaving the adeatele-
Intim, aaddg.glt this out as a significant eircussumes,
the meet t that oscarred between his siva**, toe
mar eel equally energetic subsequent advoesey
Mf I sow ask him what warred in the interval to
grebe Ida the advocate of peace ? It was quite clear that
AM the vote of censure else committee would go oa, and it
astempally certain that the discussion respecties it in this
bum would 'evolve the question of whether the war was to
hessetiond. Now, the right hon. gentleman having boss
a member of that administration, we have aright to consider•
menteing dose by it as done by himulf. When the expedi-
ent le the Crises was prepared by him and his friends—for
Whets it was prepared—what should they say ?We have a
despatch from the Duke of Newcastle to Lord Raglan, in
which he says that there eat be so peace for Europe until
Sebastopol is takes. That was the statement, nos of the
Duke of Newcaatle, but of the administratio 0, and for that
statement I hold the right hon. gentleman responsible.
(Heim) When the conference had virtually ended, before
that shun one that was esasted in this bossy, at that time
had Sebastopol fallen ? I will allow that the Russian Beet
had loss destroyed, I will suppose that we had thereupon
suds peace,
no I ask the house what would base been the
malt titheprosodies? Would there be a realm in Europe
that west& not have said, " Zealand and France have been
eessuseed ?" sad oar army and navy would have retuned
frees the Crimea with disgrace and degradation. (Hear,
hear.) Aad sash is the conduct which the right bets gas.
Haman edam auto pursue. (Loud cheers.) -Why, themb
not a tribe ia the eastern deserts that would not fast
cemented we had retired because we weld sot take
Sebastopol. (Chests.) And yet the right hon. gentlemen
says we Wield have retired with one military honour tuatara
mislaid, with the Mints of the war acomptisbed. (Neer.) I
teat to know, than, what were the objects of the war?
Would Hoop* ba
the —would the Turkish empire be sets ?
True it is that Russian armies have retired hems&
the Prink ; but whatemority have we that midge Is. age
they would aot be on the Danube again ? (Hear, hear.)
Weald It not be said that England and France had failed,
and should we have been in a position to undertake the
szpedition which we have undertaken ? Is abort, would it
set be dear to everybody that instead of obtaining the
idiots of the war, we had failed in engem of them, and
that the intense, of civilisation and hamaity would incur
great demos from oar failure ? (Hear, hear.) Thee what
would have boom of the principle of political morality
Wash Wesel us to undertake this war, if the omit* of the
eight her. boast ware acted epos ? (Hear, hear.) We
IWO lisimeamiflatil millioas of treasure and %beamed& of
t flw what? It may tot said that the right hon.
pgo:,
b out of idles sow, and that makes a woadrims
; but I would mak him, sad I would ask
house, if any coo object for whiob, when
ta alAss. he was a party to our uttering into
Mk war. hes bias &wised ? I ask, is the power of
sews adelea—L. Europe safer, or is the Turkish empire
mkt the. when the war drat coinmenced ? It is clear to
sall that if paled followed the advice of the right hon.
hersost, yew sidght bare satisfied him and his right tweeter-
▪ bleeds, but yea would have brought degradation upon
the esestre. (Cheers.) I know that what the right hon.
Mout doss is always done with deliberation. 1 don't say
that le alwaacts prudently, but he always acts deliber-
ately, sad if he does sometimes act imprudently, he does so
with his eyes open. (Hear, bear.) Did he not, then, under-
take this war advisedly ?--and if so, fur what did he induce
the people of Zeeland to leave their peaceful avocations and
to sacrifice their blood and their treasure ? Was it Dimply
that the Remises should retire beyond the Peels, bet
heaping hie army inuct and his pewee as great as ever ?
Yet this is all that would have bees obtained by (attests,
Me right boa. baronet's advice. (Hear, bear.) Tres,
me should have bad peace ; bat it would have been •
ildrararabis ponce, and we should have been weaker
se S satin than when we entered urn the war. (Hear.) '
I obit to be frank with the noble lord at the head of the 1
gemsemees I said is this house eons days ago that the
eseser, bet se oonflieucts in the government of the noble 1
lead tor esadacting the conferment at Vienna, and now I I
will tell the mottle lord why I said so. In the first place, • '
now bad gone abroad that there were still in the goyim. ',
ment.of the noble lord persons who sit as the right hem '
genlibmen felt who, with his two right hon. friends, boa I
Needed hem the cabinet. (Haar.) When I say this, Ide 1
Mt alto le impute to that right bon. gentlemen what I
kora bees said in some quarters, that he is the friend of I
isle& tar.) Nosuch thing ; but what Ido impute to
Ma Is oak that he was the teiend of Russia, but that 1
la this matter—using metier a mistake--he was not I
the friend of Eagland. I do not suppose for a 1
assist that he was • traitor to his country, 1
bee that he made a mistake, and having made it, 'i
tuhave vet t
what 1 wijottui;de°l:74:oentre in
nore tOrdeflir,uttlfao: itbewiesutQflie II
sat of doon that there were persons still in his admisistra-
tan who entertained similar opinions upon this question
with those who had left it, and the person I Ohio" to more '
aporially is the noble lord the mambo for Leedom. The
omen I say this is, that the noble lord held or acquiesced
la Issigusgs at the conferences of Vienna which was un-
worthy of any English minister. (Hear.) I say that so
HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TIIIIIISDAY, JCSII 7. Beets!' minister—especially the author of reform in
,par The house met at 4 o'clock. hament—ought to have put his hand to that protocol the
PRIVATE BUSINESS. shiest of which was to take from an independent people the
power of self- government. (Cheers.) English interests are
The following bills wen severally read a third time and
tee interests of the world—her interests are the ja-
r/esti: Basingstoke, Stocktnidge, and Lobcomb Conn to ta of civilisation and seli-government, but in this
Road ; Bridport and Broad Winsor Reads; Bridport Roads. ne .
' case the noble lord sided with the despots
Gumtreal and Dewsbury Road ; Honiton Road ; Liebtpill
the
world,
and Birdlip Road ; North Yorkshire and Cleveland Rail- who would crush an independent people and
deprive them of the right of managing their own concerns.
way ; Oaford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Railway Hear, hear.) The house well knows the protocol to which
(Improvements and Branches) ; Orford, Worcester, and i li de A
minister of Knelled understandieg the into.
Wolverhampton Railway (Narrow Gamer) ; Portsmouth allude.
•Enis d and the part Austria was playing, should
Railwey ; Rhyeeney Railway ; Stroud and Chalford Reeds; ThICIIrs whispered g a
the ear of . •
Stroud, Caissons", and Minchinhamoton Road ; Bills. into ear ISAMU', three words—l know
there are persons in this house who will raise their yeas
THE CAMP IN THE CURRAGH, against me when I mention them, but I know oho that the
Is answer to Colossi DU/WOMBS, time will come when Ones three words will be the watch-
Mr. IdONSELL stated that by next week there would weeds of Europe and of good goverment—the three words
be camp acaommodation on the Currsgh for 6,000 men. I would have whispered in the ear of Austria are " Poland,
THE WAR.—ADJOURNED DEBATE. Hungary, Italy." (Cheer,) It may be said lam now
Mr. ROEBUCK, in re-opening the adjourned debate raisiog the question of natmealities. I take the part of
natiosalitin against despots always, and I firmly batten
said, at say time I should be abalone to address the bows as
that Austria, if these three words had been whispered is
briefly as possible, but I am more than usually so now, OD her ear, would have understood her position, and net have
unease of my own weakness, with which I hope the house played fast and loose with this country and with France
will bear patiently. (Hear, hear.) I shall proceed at case bat would base trembled before the spirit which those
to state sty opinioas—for I cannot argue them—as to why I three mods would bays nisi tared up before
.ber.. (Hear.)
lon quite aware what 1 lour by this declaration ; but,
think the war should be protested vigorously until we ob- feeble as las to ezprsts adequately the feelings I entertain,
tail an honourubis Pease. (Hear, Ulm) The opinions of lam yet strong in the oonvietios that in the three words I
the right hon. baroatt, Oa member for Carlisle, ere always have mentiosed is the talisman of European safe
ty.rs matte of consideration with me, and, on the last ousel= Thom-) I would say to its
a lord the member for
melon that his speech—sot the mead, ead, bat the first
upon which he addressed the house I looked for these with sperah.Ldrat far to swim the apiaries la the paws mad
coasiderable cariosity, for I had &shrewd supine' as to the genet him. I believe from his ststemeat the scold wen
course be isteaded to take, and I wss mints to Mew the led to suppose that the noble lord was of the peace party ;
grounds upon whisk he would rot his adoption of that but his subsequent epoch has tended meth to undo the is-
presidoa produced by the first. I object to this fast and
course. That right hon. gentleman haA bees a ameba of
loose policy. (Clue's.) The people of England have, by
Lord Aberdeen's goverument, and can of the mast proud- their leaders, been dragged into this war. Ido not say
nest in determining to go to war with Ruins. He said the. tbey have gone into it reluctantly, or without fuU confidence
last time he addressed the house, that, in his opiates, the in their leaders; but I say that it behoves those who are
war was a just and necessary war, and that it was for the the leaders of such a people le be steadfast in their faith—
(hear, bar)—and not in the moth of September send oat
interest of this country it should be entered Into; I was a despatch to their general-in-chief that the only hops
carious, therefore, to know how he would shape his wane of safety for Europe is the destruction of Sebast ipol and
in the present debate, and be all for peace now, Meng boss the "rippling of the Runlets power in the Black Sea, and
all for war only a few months since. (Hear, bear.) I was is lass followiag to come forward as the advoca
mations to know what had occurred between his leavbg pules smii= to England a degrading subseissioe tulle
office, and the swiferenee, to change his opinias. I was sow Pawl/emus wild (Hear, hear.) Ido not believe that the
the member for Tiverton is of this wavering dia.
Giant be would state the ()blots that had led to the pedille,• (Hear, hear.) I Olio's that he went into this
war, and would add, that in his opiates those war With IM eyes wide open, sad with a firm spirit—that
objects had now all been obtained, mud I was he will sot be to
by esaiddaradows of • permed
curious to see how he would sump, to peon the nature to vacillate in hie purpers—bla that he will seer
last position. Two years ash We siosstr, Was is a state of keep before him the intonate ell Isislesd, which, is my
rorsaad
pram. We had hiss hog tesestemed to,
and mead, are paramount to all others. (Hear, hear.) I bops
that be will retain that spirit, and that as we have entered
were pursuing tho avosatioes of pees*, with as energy saw iato this war so we shall continue it until the ead we have
valeta in the Metal of man. Art and slam were by es in view is obtained—that we shall be firm bold,
pushed into every Oboe, Own was not a sea that tom not and straightforward—that whet we Pie we oltell in
se self envie" spirit unwarily give
visited by our ships, or a market that wee set filled with /, • - -
our goods, but while thus pursuing our peosstal atheaticias esenieg on a war which we an told Is to maintain the
muss of civilisation against barbarism—of European freedom
the Mulish world was suddenly startled by ea appeal hem seblatihnsetralaa"
of toyurner
cress,
dwaine
stibialitioe—tstaiwandatnewelygebyinthoheaselmtly
cur hasten, telling so we mat go immelistely to war
mean (cheer.)—that oar object being to cripple Ramis,
(Rear, hear.) On what ground' was that appeal mode, soil will we take from her we ehalt hap. (Hear, hear.) These
ee by who. was re made more earnestly thee by the right hon. are gnifittant phrases, an I man them to be so. ( beers.)
gentleman ? (Hear, hem) TM finned was that the lade. Is sling with Ramie as our 'assay we ere so longer to
pmgcme, of Ea.. was *Lwow, that there was a great 0004dtlf her honour, but to madder mantled as our allies
power that wes—aierigois "ppm prrossa id the dark, —that we are fighting the battle of makied, and that is
mad Irma ft, peels had boa
with
amusing swamp
maw. crippling Russia we are benefiting the whole bums& race.
lag asibiti°6B pro Bets of daialaiaa' It was said that the Mt. S. HERBERT observed that the bon: and leaned
time had aew some whin its designs were to be disclosed, geatleman hid advanced as attach ageism `aright bon.
sad thuds" arse see wee to be the absorption of the Ottlams Me (Sr J. Orshens) upon gnus* a(11. Her-
ithliii•e• We eon all mallet% the eciandiag of that war lord to show were 'theft usiebodal. The bon. H
ad
trumpet, and bow vigorously the right hon. lOSUNIMIS blew salt that It %WOW *Aden by the
into it. (Ho., hear.) We au maws .u.- _....,. .., erre= la June lath mos.prodused before
Reform Club—
the than . I— speech a' ''. the Itheirespel eansmittrie, ant Mlle duke pledged the
silo the moth at the diet there siontel benicgoesomail Settestopol was
Manisa
—thaa; liwell—"a. we wero.teld that the at bet the birm awl liaised gentleman's
war "1"1" sf *eagle ligelest damn, of d•wistbs et the to hir so the words were issa
was met 'estrost be Dohs of Neweastle saver
164111bubaliuntilasa. hear.).ers thss"
It was inerlissi"
thatailialt 5111' si Then awn be se pear,' be mid there would
1"46.16
shy V the sietwdag 0 vs. said
emetic* by Bemis, would be is m should laden Mr to most the ISMS 1141
. 1
... . .. .. . . . ..

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LOEDS.--TRI7ISDAT. JUNE 7.
Tin Logi) USAlCat.ink took kis seat Open the wookeek
at ye o'clock.
PRTITIONS.
Lori BERNSB,S ;!••••I.•d • ?ethic% 'genet the May-
' see*
T.ie Bishop of LINCOLN prenatal! a pititiee. signed by
'snow eharchwardeas residing in diffneat parts a the
eosetsy,.opinit tko bill for the shoikke sharek-rates.
TMEET-OF.I.RAYI SYSTEM.
Lord LYNDHURST wished ID *all the attendee of their
indshipe a can whin appmeed is anis sato sama at
the day, as to
having bete beergill before Ike. laribiri,
pollee magistrate. It was the ma Si a farillin, sat ages
tickeVof-leart, who had bees linielikt BMW the elegdo•
trite epos the clause of hang onedi ! Zage
a polite constable. Referring to en asses
" the Lague meet have hues bed Weed toebeek •
man. It formed •
dribseg ionerear, no Beebe. IMO
seetimens mtprosse y the is bids iniereletra
with the chaplain of the prison from miff* M Mal ellielitel
his ticket-at4eave. Oa these sesesioni. It greeda
adoptioa of a hypos:Weal tone sad s seating espeneiMe of
the etnritensace (which the worst of them were *saes' of
Naming best when it carved their parpme le de se) reused
is obtain their diabetes Wore the alpine= a Ildlf the
term of the original seatenee. with the farther oteerstex
of • written character, cashing there to lapses gen
publish Why, he bad not presided there say day Mr ems
Nee put inti r=
without having to dispose ed MOO
▪ " ticket et -leave" man. Ike
atighbenrlig
with then. They stand at the 0113111111 of 'boon at mid-
eight, end pouncing suddenly apes the lamely passage!
half strangle and rob hint beton eves as alarm Ina be given.'
Their lordships would observe that this wee a magistrate's
stateneat of what bad eons within his owe knowledge.
Upon this the Polies-inspeettr Meekensis said :—" There
were 40 ticket-et leave men is the insinikie seighboar-
hood of the eoart who bad retuned re their aid trains and
to their former none ef life. la seder, beremnit, M meld
the peewit consequence* they usually emploped tips tea
ironies es assist them, and these were ammientip
ypr
heeded while the principal delinquents treiged aiMgal 9 9
The ma/strata then said :—" He bad a very Ong baling
open the reject. Sniety was not safe with the presses
system is operation. It taintst be a desirable thing to deer
the gaols of these saes, bet it was • bad thing for the peblie
wham they nomad to • life of seise, having mosped man
then half the pool/bone% which it had been thought proper
to award then for previous oiliness. The imposes even of
re-prosecutiog then men, when they are detected, mast
amount to a formidable ma." He (Lord Lyndhurst) well
present is theirlordships' hoses wises the dimension look plan
urn this Convicts' Tioketeof-Leave Bill, and he resollestod
what was thee said by his noble and learned (dead the
Chief Intim on the aubject. He thostaht that the fasts
which he bad just read to their lordships tally wormated
the obs melons which his *obit and lensed Mead im-
pressed epos that occasion. B. would am her Majesty's
government to mooed', the subject, and he was certainly
of opinion that the sooner they did se the better it would be
for the public. He trusted that amidst this did' of sew
which was oceurriog every night at a plain not far distant,
a question of so mush social importance es this to which be
had called attrition would not be quite lost sight of.
The LORD CHANCELLOR scald only say that if his:
noble friend would either give notice of a entitle or of his
intention to put a question upon the sableet, it should have
the most onion, atteatioa of the government. He mild
not then go into the matter, for the statement of the noble
and learned lord was quits new to Ms, as he had not nee
the newspaper to which reference had been nada. Re
would only my this, that his right hen. (rind the Seastary
of &mike the Home Devastates% had the matter caw
neat ly seder his &meatiest.
Lord CAMPBELL said that every appealbeinkim whisk ke
had satertained ono this subject had been Moe Oben peel-
bed by the facts which had occurred Anse die peenieg oldie
Ticket-of Leave Bill. He had always lesised- with doe
greatest tiers at the abolition of traegeriellion es a menu
of panisksteat, aad he feared that still INNS etimegasecas
they them already&dented to sight seise from it.
CRIMINAL JURISDICTION.

Is newer iOI:O7CiBIOI3ORP.M.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said be could snare his
noble friend that this subieet was an lost sight of. Oaly
that morning he had received a bag report embodyhig •
enema. That scheme, however, did not gaits tally with
the plan of the bill whin he had prepared, and sane alter-
ations would. is consegiseacie, have to W made I. it. Ile
hoped not those eltersiiins wield be enspieted is a day
or two whoa be would playthe bill upon the table.
Lied CAMPBELL suggested that noble sad learned
friends is that holm would obtain the beet possible inform-
shoe se to the working of oar system of criminal juris-
prudence if they would go upon ow of the circuits. They
wen already seated is the comminon for the Central
Crimisal, and there ieotild be no difficulty is their going
epos cirneit. lie would especially saggest to his noble and
learned irked opposite (Lord Stoneham) that he should go
epos the Northers Circuit in the Deeembn anises.
Lord BROUGHAM said nothing could be mine hied—
(lniatter)—sed move kindly anent then the suggestion of
him onblb sad learned (rimed (Lord Cempbell), sad be should
be wet happy to concur in it bet for two MINAS. la the
Ant plate he should not like to interfere with whet was sew
so admirably done by his sable and learned friend sad the
reverent, beech of judges over whom he presided—C.' bear,"
and laughter) ;—in the neat plane be felt himself ne feeble
is health and strength te enter upon the labours whin had
been so kindly proposed to him. Short of this, however, he
would do anything to put an end to • system under which
men wen left in prison for 60 or 70 days before they wen
brought to trial.
CAMBRIDGE UNIVERSITY BILL.
The above bill paned throagh committee dm 'unmanly
a prolonged diseued•in soon the several elesses.
INPANTS MARRIAGE BILL.
The LORD CHANCELLOR moved the second reefing
of this hill. Its object was to legalise the dieposal of pro-
perty by persons married nailer the legal age.
The bill was read a second time.
ECCLESIASTICAL PROPERTY (IRELAND) BILL.
tir his bill was reed a thin time and passed.
TIN hoes* adjourned at a ginner to nine o'clock.

....air

_e

I hoped to be able to dictate. (" War, Mee," hem Mr.
Ambush.) The hoe. and kielled times sheaved that.
L . Well, la the Sop deem to Xnerbiett the
6- the of N. said, '0
waves
wiskielm ,
.41;Lass:41111"taseasig . ..tothase"nallreliesit stalteig isemd"fill emirs" matlobela
sr. , okaleam elisieitsr." Bet offensive illisis le their
;saw. a stereur .he say plith of a elerrastimi for
tilh Fish% lig. ,3*ol, "mid AO KIM eV** as the
somaiii.e. % pf Rosie would be Measles! es the
Skies ef Se battotiol."
Sir J. PA. YIN( that the IR*et'April de-
?'
mr. jog BRRT—Yes, the 10th of Altiell &smash,
Ayr limas mu ' the despatch earth 10th of 7rine. But
hew meld theta kiss of Masohave bees regarded as
lakm.muea Gana Won. as the bound barged psalms&
um. when the au; sentence in the &apse* kit it to the
dismal= of the gen.irah fa summed to Milo whether it
should be *Mistakes* meth ? regthere If the taking of
Sebastopol was to limo be.. • ienditiserelpmee, why wee
beet theleded is the Loth
_riots ? (thews) His right
Item friend the member to Bouthwatk tha said that if we
did not take Sebastopol, aemles weal suture to Bag.
hid fatting their banners with diagram What, then,
iirenla have happened if tos days ego Rooth had sempted
the NM pepeeed to her ? The whole error mere from the I
Mathisa of two thinp essentially distinct, vim,. lb* opera- I
time elf the war as a mesas to as mid. with the I
end to be obtsined by those operations. AU car oiler
Weft emanated with a view to Ph '
ere at war pier endeavour should be to humble nonessithey,
On Wen her, if possible to crush her; bat whim pee ease 1
to make terns of peace, you should recoiled that yea are 1
isg with them whom you wish to make away frieads, i
eggwbsa therefore it would be unwise to humble beyond
VW the fortune of war has done already, or to Jesuit by 4
dishimearable terms. In dealing with this goes-
Ligillgillithe MOMS the difficulty which arms fres its beim
lammed by sot oily different parties, but by members of
the mss party levies widely different views, different
objects, and different antecedsate. There were those who
thought the time had arrived when the country might con-
chide a sate ad honourable pesos ; then there was the
member foe Meschester who objected to war altogether;
agate, them woe the right hon. member for Manchester
who disappeared of this particular war, bet did
net share the plot principles of his hon. cal-
liope; sad seat, there were these who, like himself and
kb light hes. friends beside hint (Mr. Gladsome and Sir J.
Grebes) were advocates for the war in the flat isetasee,
foe the attainment of certain objects ; which objects having
bees attained, were now for peace. The hoe. harslet (Sir
B. Islam) asked how could they be the advocates of war
me day, and the advocates of peace another? But that was
begging the whole question of what had happened slues the
war began. He justified himself for having advised the
was by the magnitude of the objects to be obtaleed by it.
Time objects, which had been fully ezplained la treaties
end public documents, were the abrogation of the network
of treaties by which Russia held Turkey in her grasp—the
&betides of that exclusive and painful protectorate claimed
by Russia, es founded upon treaties giving her a right to
interfere in the internal affairs of Turkey; and there was
besides these the question of the navigation of the Danube.
In none of the public documents in which these objects
were set forth, was there any mention of "limits
tiou ?" That was a child of after growth. Bet all
the objects he had enumerated be believed to be of para-
mount importance; and when he was asked why, having
hem formerly for war, he was now for peace, he replied by
skies bow would them who had gene for war for those
'Wits be for continuing that war, those objects bevies
Mss obtained ? He thoaght we bad not, in this country,
done to our military successes, sr the extent of the
wtmislea Roosts had bees forced to endure. It had ben
said that the submissions of Russia were comparatively small.
imiliese the result of victories, and not of negotiations. Bet
Me MOM of negotiations was not to obtain substations, but
to arrange terms based upon the submissions won in the
held. Bat with regard to them submissions, Ramie had
been compelled to evacuate the P 4 intieittiell ; her
fortificatioes on the Circassian coast had hese alias-
&sad and destroyed; Bomanund had beat tap.
Soma; the two seas which had been regarded al-
most as Russian lakes were blockaded; the pro-
visos where the nobles were Russians, and the people
Poles, were, it was understood, in a state of inanition ;
there was growing discontent amongst the nobility,who bad
bone accustomed to seek abroad those pis tires they could
met lad et home; and lastly, there was the inability of Rua.
Isla—the strongest military power in Europe—to expel from
its shores two hostile sores that were encamped ape its
Ise& There was also the fact that the fleet of Russia
was unable to have the protection of their forts ; and there
were, also, the recent reverses she had suffered at Keith,
' and in the &sof Mott The hon. and learned member for
Plymouth bad attacked the members of the late govern-
Mat, who, like himself, left it under the air-
gemetanees described by the honourable and learned
ipmehiman below him (Mr. Roebuck), and stated that
ask presence in the cabinet was the reason those successes
wife not obtained before, and that as their hearts were not
in the war they paralysed the efforts of the military ism
sanders. That was • grave charge, and he would not
attempt to reply to it by any prof. salons of his. If after 20
years spent in that house, devoted to the public service (and
he spoke more for his two right boa. frauds, Sir J. Graham
and Mr. Gladstone), he could be supposed to be guilty of
conduct so base, there was no use in character. Nor would
he condescend to eater protests, caveats, or death's spinet
such • charge. (Cheers.)With mead to the lasses which
had ciecuseed in our army, he believed that since the begin-
ning of the war 13.000 men bad fallen victims to it, either
from the sword or diatom—but he deprecated a pesetas
which had been too frequent is these debates, of exerts*.
rating that lase, as denegiog our position in &shag with
the enemy. The hon. and teamed gentleman (Mr. Cellar)
said, thank Gal the three traitors have been expelled
from the cabinet, especially he, who, for his own private
reason% prevented the bombardment of Olsen and the
attack aeon Bench when it ought to have been made. He
would read a despatch (the noble lord at the head of the
government having given him leave to do so), whisk would
show hew far the Marge was true that his right hon. friend
beside Um was the traitor, as the hen. and learned member
for Plymouth said, whose orders p ted those active
omenores being carried out which the military eorantaiders
1 tbonsbe necessary. Ibis despatch was dated (Heber 13.
1111114, and was from the Secretary of the Admiralty to
Sir,—l am commended by my Lord"
Oseal"ntiralissiDouuenredas :"I—the Admiralty, with Isthmus to the
essestioss of the test under your orders, to call per spatial
ma particular attention to the amenity of exereteieg the
lamest vigilance and care in preventing the moves's% of
WOW all deseriptions proceeding out of the Bay of L. er-
ects and the river Dniester, and 1 am to signify to you their
directions to take every precaution is your pewee te pre-
vent tionumnication with the Cristo& from poets in that
direction. My lords are further of opialon that. ith
the mew at your disposal will admit, propos measures
should be concerted with your colleagues in commend of
the allied forces, for obtaining an entrance by the Gulf at
Kedah into the Sea of Asoff, with a view to iaterrupt the
cemmunications of the enemy with the earners shores of the
Crimes, to which their lordships have always attached the
sweetest importance. In comert, likewise, with your col-
leagues, my lords consider that no Oppettnnitiee should be
lost to occupy the lineation of the emu by frequent
attacks upon all parts of the mast extending trim
the mouths of the Danube to the isthmus of
Perthop, and that any proper opportunity for the bombard-
ment of Odessa should not be omitted." He wished
to say one word is defence of Admiral Deeds. There was
a conclusive reams why that gallant officer had not attacked
°deem. He waked to do so, and hit made the atheathry
preparation", bet was premated,not by the Zilpah only,
bat by the French general as well, who were of opinion
that the destruction of Odessa would liberate a large body
of troops, who would go to swell the army in the Crimea.
He (Mr. Herbert) was giving no opinion whether the stra-
tests mesons urged by the allied generals were sound or
not, but they were sufficient to acquit Admiral Dundee of
any charge of neglect. (Hear.) If there was still any doubt
of the intentions of his ngut hosi.friend hewould read asether
despatch,wbich he thought mall not fail to satisfy the hens.
He would read from a despatch, of September 8, which he 1
bad the permission of the noble lord at the head of the
government to nee---
Lowd SEYMOUR here rose and said, I beg to ask a 1
question-4 beg to ask whether there despetathe have beck I
laid on the table ? If there is to be • dietaries ea
despatches on ease& we ought to have the answers to them.
I move that the despatches be laid on the table as well se
those in answer to them, and I ask the noble lord whether
he will lay them on the table?
Mr. 8. HERBERT said that the objection of the athis
lord was a fair one. It was a rule of the home that
despatches should it be read which were not ea the table,
but there weer measions when a public mast was attacked
when the generosity of the house ought to be appealed to,
and as is this imams, the noble lord at the heed of the
government had no objeitioo to their modalities, believing
they would lead to no public inconeraleme, he hoped
the home would bear with bim while he read them.
withe Ilmestary to the A.dmimlty to vise-AdmiralDan-
das.-40theirelty, Ithoseaber 8, 1864.-84,-1 am ens.
nmeebe4 by eeir Lords Commission," of the Admiralty to
call_ MIS eglathen to their letter of the 13th of °sober last,
RC mu, eespoedng an attack on the port at Odessa at any
=togetweroity. Although this pieties has bees post-
at the request of the generals aossaanding the allied
fermi ea skim my lords are et opinion it shoal be agate
takes thee eansideration, with a view to aa fleeted opera-
tioe' ',hemmer eireuenstances will permit.—" R. °thecae."
The sate had (Seymour) said that he eight cot to read
despatches without the answer to them ; but I am reading
these oely with • view to acquit Admiral Deeds. of blame,
and he made at the tame aims no imputalea ea the eons
sanders, or these who, no doubt, had good and sound M-
eow for their fondest. He (Mr. Herbert) lad beard sem
plaints lost Austria meld not light and Prussia would not
light. But whisper the word Poland, sad es if
frati
quid sot /she. Bat which way? Wes it
to drive them settees iato a striae Shansi with the camel
power of Ruda? In dealing with questions of foie*.
Milky, you must deal with them on other gratis& than
mama or religious sympathise. The third word which
was to be whispered was Italy. Whisper that word to
Asada. Yee. But wee all Italy Avestan? You must
whisiter the word elsewhere, and in a gentler voile. Wes
this the seismal to naistion i nathmaties, es the
posed -ela whisk yea were gin . le meadmi your
Miley ? •If ever a wee foe satiesaßtlee wee eery
Mod ,on by' &whoa, yen must pot tarp% me
eettatity Which .. bed tell ' )beetmed Peter clam dam
P"gasa or sopii: ro.4' aid Reagan might be op.,
gremed. bet it wee, Sate speak: • boatly4lreanielle set op-
gremiesof peeemel liberty. Bat there 4 9011111/7 VIM.

ad by • goverment which Psevidenee
a Mean, to serious *ever tie trust
n eseleelestice. if that state ern still
d; trim on . amen of the effendi. .of
,f a 1 He saw fa sae of the paper* nen; jrig:
oat tics • the P
ara Hear,
anted hie
.Hems bone...el a Mara" (Hese, hear.) Ineyine
del rake se fillhory thee sables bat military term men
re& Dat stew* an meld Chet was done “by stadealag
Fat damn pitili plibels ef landres." (Hear, bear.)
If yom Ilhe mote Irelool. Hungary, and Italy,
you must te • mesa wilful' proteins the Roan
masa pegglearesbigh gnus gremenppeet to tbat relights,
emil by wlnit the ?gab Masked fa- ble .rnra eloadaions ;
pea mast It ti an ally Olin bad directly
Opposite sympeMku to your ma, bat which was
ila ally toe nimble to he Tithed fee - the bidet-
Wm of Unpin feelings Hit. thew; as ally which
was IWO, fa good fellowship by our side :and he smile
orWlllealibienwa friperteafea whoa in the government that
theist** of the Fronk bad beloved to the English
grnernmerat with • frankness, a cordiality, mad • good faith
of ea ally which he (Mr. Herbert) thought of great
I is. Did think that, because we weer engaged In
egoist *Omen together I No, bat because I. thought
tho Imeperor 0 the Fronk was acting for the Preach
mein, when lemings and wishes he understood, and he
Impoil lint when the war wee over it would learn behind It
Ile seeds of • lanai aniline bowies this coastry aad that
feint and eh-nohow people. Bat the question was, what
wets we now to es I The four points were sot put an end
to, for Lord Clareadoa had toted, what he thought, terms
for the basis of oegniatiow, which were almost the same as
the four points. The ante lord (J. Rasoll), however, bad
spoken of Ruda sae 'Mad, awl of the influswe of Russia
is Germany, eauseel by intermarriages among the prism
of that contry, in • manner which was very alarming
He saw also that LOri Clarendon had spoken of
Russia's seaverteng her sailing ships into screw
steamers, sad covering the land with a network
of railways, sad he (Mr. Herbert) could only say that be
hoped that royal marrisgeo I. Germany, and the conversion
lauding ships of war into steamers, and covering • country
with a network of railways, was not to afford us • pretext
fa going to war. (Rear, hear.) Bat the noble lord, in his
hpeseltea Tuesday, greatly took away from the effect of his
tamer doelgsaderrader be ead that all be said was only used
us segmeat ageing the power of Russia. In the absence
diced Olageades. he (Ur. Herbert) would be towilliug to
make any eammentsonetwanatioas of his, and the more SO
bessue, having 'hula the eaktgae of the noble lord,
he left the saint eaterteials4 for him the greatest
esteem as wet) as odashetna he the pilau* industry, and
feet with which he had , ernes& ea SSW issailiet of the moot
momplieated allies; the men ensphoseed Imam carried
sa in concurrence with three ether /ewers. Bat, before the
Wm and the scantly &Med ea alas of this kind, they
Would look cierehaliy to the state et war alliances, and the
gate of Swope. He spoke of the interest which Frans
sad Austria had la a war of nationalities. In France the
war was sot so popular as it was is England, though the
laglish allows was popular. At present France was not
subjected to aay heavy additional taxation, for the
wee had been carried oa ea credit. You could net there-
in, trees the indifference to the war in France to the pres-
sure of taxation. He (Mr. Herbert) thought the war was
time remote to touch powerfully the imaginations of the
Meech people. They did not undentand too a war which
aging with a self-dasyngordinanoe egainstconquest. There
was • very significant fact. The Foreign Minister of France
reigned. The Emperor was his own minister. The
resign Minister of France was the Prime Minister
mad the Bonenr was therefore his own foreign
minister. M. Drouyn de Lhuys made a pray sal to us.
whisk it mast be supposed was that of the Browne,
whisk we. rejected, sod he resigned. In a few e. vs after, 1
the lieffilewr, which was strictly • government paper,
betroband into benisons istatement of the hicknerickino;
=
hick said that -tropossls had been sacs which were
wn, as not being ' consonant with the interests of
Neale, but it added that the Emperor naturally wished to
teepees the wishes of the English goy,. omect. He (Mr.
Herberi)inferred from aUtbis that France was nearer to peace
Ma we were. (Hear, hear.) She would stand by us in the
Mingle, but her interests wets different; her friendship
be us could be orm, bat like all friendships, it ought not to
be taxed too heavily.
Mr. DRUMMOND observed that the right hon. member
he Wiltshire had approved of the war when it originated,
bat recommended now that it should be discontinued. Now
bb (Mr. Drummond's) opinion was exactly the reverse; for
he began by deprecating the was, bat he now contended
✓at we had nothing lett for it but to go on is what we had
eidertakea. He was sorry to hear the right hon. gentle-
man appeal to his character in the house, as the right
hoe. baronet (Sir James Graham) did on a former occa-
sion. There woe a story of Jeremy Bentham's sung
to Sir Francis Burdett as a young man when ha first
altered the Howe of Commons, .' Whenever you bear a
man appeal to his character in the House of Commove, put
both your bands in your pockets." (A laugh) The right
boo. gentleman need um fear that any one would apply the
eneedote to him ; but such an appeal was unworthy of him.
Now be (Mr. Drummed) thought the country had been
stimulated with tales and exageerated representations of the
aggressive power of Russia. Everything had loan dons to
Intake Rung odious in the eyes of the peoploof. England.
whilst our statesmen coquetted with the oppressed
Nationalities, with Italy and Hangar,. They encouraged
rebellion and sevolutioa to ferment in Europe, whoa
the Emperor of Russia stood forward as the bed of cones.-
Tatiana. This was not • war for the integrity of the Turkish
empire. No Satopern state had ever recognised snit a
thing. Nor mild we prebend to be defendiag civilisatou ;
for the social condition of Turkey waa the most abominable
that ever existed, all the female sex loins treated as slaves
and boon and mortared when they grew old—Jos no
woman was allowed to survive the sego of fifty in luny ;
infanticide was an weal occurrence, and marriages was im-
possible. except to the rich ; so that the immorality which
prevailed in Turkey was such as be could not deueibe. Then
was it not an algae of terse, to say that wo were
gong to war for the asks. of civilise:era ? (Hear.
hear.) The hen. gentleman Wen oussural is general that
endues of Mr. Cobden, monolog him that the tribunes oft
tbs WO" often became Ws first victoria el the passion
Ahoy embed.. He said the popular rap now sought a
inent, and meld not loot be content with a general *ea
hatband, bat would penaps demand a cabinet 1111661110.
it was impossible to ben any annum in publics ma
whilst the opposition told government employed thealselees 1
la blackens/ each ether, and whilst the ezamrat of Sir
1 Robert Peel was renealabuid, which had inflicted krapare.
ble mieshisf ea the 'haunter of our statesmanship. (Cheers.)
Two geed thieve, however, might come out el the war. 1
There wield be attend to the Mehometan power, and the
I ether thing wee that France, whatever haepened, would
be to nada the mistress of Constantioople. I
The debate was continued by Serjeant nal, who deli.
won a proNaisian speech, Mr. ALcoCx. sad Sir W. CULT,
who interned to support the government; and Sir H. Wu.-
LOllOlll2 and Lord R. CuoIL.
IIIr.BRIGHT said—l feel very muck is the position which
I felt last year when the declaratioa of war was brought
down to the house, sad I made a speech in opposition to the
government policy. I was then told that I was too late,
and it has Wen said in the come of these debater, more than I
nee, that thew who take the view I take are too late ea
this occasion. And it appears to be one of the consequences
of the peculiar sad irresponsible system of diplomacy in this
country, and of the management of foreign affairs with as,
that we sever are allowed to discuss a mischief while it is
yet growing, bat mast always wait until it ts completed—
when it is too late for any remedy to be applied. (Hear,
hear.) We. however, obtained the liberty to discuss the
endued of the government in regard to the contemns at
Vines, though we were told from the Treasury bench that
it would be injurious to the public genies to discuss what
was going on a reference to than conferences
until the whole was completed. I think, how-
ever, that the house will have concluded by this
time that we have been pursuing our true duty to
the country is carrying on these discussions ; and I think we
are greatly indebted to the right hon. melons. for Buckley-
bullshit. (Mr. Disraeli) for placing his notice on the pew
of the hoses, aad to my right hon. friend and consign
(Mr. Gibson) for moving the adjournment of the debate
previous to the holidays to this week. (Hear.) lam satis.
fied that the !people 0 this country have no intention to go
wrong either in our home or our foreign affairs, and it re.
=sly that questions of this nature should be frankly
4 in this house, to set before them the true state if
affairs, mad bring them to a wise and sound opinion as to the
policy which has been pursued. (Hear, hear.) We are net
now dimming the question of the coign of this war. If we
wire, I should claim confirmation in the result of the
views I ventured to express in the first boom
—for then seems to be a general feeling that
the sacrifices that have already been made are somewhat
greater than the results which have been obt tined. (Hese
hear.) In the observations I am about to address to the
house, I am desirous, of course, to speak as wishing to im-
press my opinions upon the house, were it possible to do no,
but principally to lay before my countrymen out of the
house, whet I believe to be their true interests in rapist
to this question. It is neceasary, therefore, that we node
have I Weis for our discussion—to fix what are the objects
for which the war was undertakes—to ascertain whether
those objects have been itecomplieted, and also whether
think anything is prospect we are likely to gale, that will
justify the government and the house in proceeding farther
with the war. Now, in my observations I am not
sheet to carry on the discussion with the hon. iten-
thmett below me, who are themselves interested is
a villein which is by no means that before ,the
bosses Than hon. gentlemen are interested in
some vast and gigantic scheme of supposed advantage ti
Europe, to be obtained only by means of long and middy
extended hostilities; but, so far as the house is coagegial be
dimming the question with the goverment, I think ~..
hon.gentlemen are out of court. If they were bread be
their um, finding that the policy of the goverment nag
the "icy of the French goverment is altogether at
miaow with tbeire—if they think, as they say, that
the object of the albed governments is not worth currying
on wee foe—they ought, to be consistent, to join our tasks,
and thus we should add to the strength of the pease party
in this house. (" Hear, liesp" and a laugh.) The noble
lord ON Secretary Yoe the Colonies has stated over and over
agaial—sad, amidst the confusion of statements whisk be
and consume hate made, I think be will searady Ist
4
fault iythtoosee ileyelreasst:taTe
awrhkaistithesewfriishoe3su, Ihoutpresme.tbe
„pg.'s we
lboul understanu him towns is—that the *Nest of this war
le , and I suppose from the grasp 0 any ether yowert•-
apprehends that if Rode wen to extend her pivot
lisvA
s acquisition of Tuley, it would gin bib sash
110 stress*, as to endanger the rah* Wire
N pow.. And wiles he spate it she

•
tle• Wad 1
I ssanall to

..1 .

• •

I most eall it absimi—linguip about the liberties of Bumps
and the civilisation of dm wOrld, I should say the noble
toed moms these great objects so fax satiny ma be conserved
by the menservation of the Turkish territory. (Hear.) The
sobs lord tells us—and so far we are getting at length
out of gems of that vsystifiostien which has hitherto
shereeterbed the government that he has no kind of gym.
pithy sub as would lead him Mb war for the sake of what
are eaLled, the net/mantis* of Boron. The noble lord
termed the sold shoulder to the people of Hungary when
I he mid that be thought so greater aeleinity could bonen to
Europe than the separation of Hungary from the Antrim
empire. (Hear, hear.) Then we have got rid of Hungary.
(Hear.) The noble lord said also the other night that it
was a mistake to suppose that he ever intended to go to
war for the restoration of Piked ; end he stated further,
what must he dishersztenhig to these who supposed the
government would ever go to war for sash a Quixotic
object, that the cense of Poland was hopeless, ad that it
would be utter madness for England or Francs—
not merely indiscretion, but madness—to take any
part la promoting resistance es the part of ithe
people of that country to their crown rules. Well, having
got rid of Hungary sod Poland, it requires only to assume,
what so doubt u ill be the one, that some other niamber
of the government will get Ilp later in the evening and say
that it se impossible we should enter late hostilities with a
view to the regeneration of any part of Italy. (Hear.) The
sable lord then tells as that we are not going to war for
=lest, sad that should be borne in stied by those who
urge on the government to • proissmist war. On
Tineedlay the noble lord said "Be it always remembered
Mgt we are seeking no object of our own. It seams odd
to me that we should go to war for objects of eemetode
else's—(" bear, hear,' and • laugh)—end that whet, peace
is concluded we shall net have senired en ell of nee
tindery or sensed any &unsnap who tevsr fir °woolen.
Olean hoar.) It is for Turkey and the geeeral 1
system of Europe that we are strugelieg. In
tkis war the whole thing always resolves itself into some
(mural mystification, and we are sow all of us almost in
the dark as to what the ultimate objects of the war are.
If any diplomatists on the part of this country, after agree- t
isg to such tenet as those proposed to Russia, bad von-
lured to show themselves within the door of that house, they
would have been met with shouts of indignation. (Hear.) 1
I want to ask the house if they have made up their minds 1
which proposal is the best ? If they have made up their
minds which is the best (and I rather think the general 1
opinion is the% that of the goveronsent is the worst), but if 1
they have made up their minds, I ask what is the differ- 1
eon between the two, and if thtre is any difference, whether I
it is worth to the country the irremediable calamities which I
a protracted war will bring upon us. I am of opinion I
that, with the territorial guarantees which are to be given, I
either the terms proposed by the noble lord or by Prince I
Gortchakeff would place Turkey In as good a position as it is I
possible for her to be placed by any power in Europe, I
Recollect that these ere not the original propositions ; for I
when • proposal was made by the cabinet of Lord Aberdeen, 1
it meant rousetking very like that which Russia has now I
proposed. If you look to the protocol and to one of the
speeches of Count Buol, it will be found that by the third
article it was proposed that the treaty of 1841 was to be re-
vised. What was the meaningof the revision of the y ?
It was intended by that to obtain the same object—that is,
a guarantee to the Turk of the right be has claimed ever
since he has possessed Constantinople, that be should close
the straits against all ships of war excepting in ease of war.
When the cabinet of Lord Aberdeen agreed upon terms,
the object of them was that the Black Bea straits should
be thrown open, or at least that the power of closing them
should be relaxed ; and I presume it was not until after it
was found that Russia was opposed to them that it was deemed
necessary to change the terms, and to insist on them in
another form. It so, it ought to make the government and
the house very chary of prolonging • war against Russia ,
sloes, she being willing to accept the proposition as
originally made by the government of Francs and
England, and which they know to be the best for Turkey—
and I believe to be the best for Rumps. If that was so,
was the government justified in breaking off negotiations ?
That is the issue the house has to geoids. Can you get
better terms? If they are sufficient for the protection of
Turkey you ought not to ask bones. You may perhaps get
better, for I agree with my hen. found (Mr. Cobden) that
England and France, it they am prepared to sacrifice thou-
sands and thousands of men earl millions of treasure, may
dismember the Russian empire.. but even then I doubt if.
you could get better term► et security both for Turkey
teed for Europe. But at what cost do you propose
le gain all this ? And, hare I may be permitted
essay • word with regard to those right hon. gentlemen who
I have lately become the anapests of this bench, and ohms
eseduct in this debate hat mused great complaint to be
, made, and language to be used which Ido not think is
Justified by the circumstances in which they are pines& I
presunte that those rigbt.hon. gentlemen know the. objects
they base in view install as any gentlemen in tn. house,
W. laming serious idw of the remit of the policy of the
wee ens at liberty ta.proolaim that they think the terms to
shish they were patties were sulkiest, and it that is their
ormiletion, no ema has a right to say that because
thu were mann» of • cattiest which went to war, they
, should be dragged through godless years and great 'uti-
lities to maintaMn.show et aratisteuev forahich they were
to sanitize ewe belies whisk is cherished by an honest
man. lists those right hoe, gentlemen gained anything f
Have they gained popularity is the country or in this home,
or in the press? 1 am ashamed to say anything La de-
face of these tight hon. gentlemen whoa they are so isolable
of vindiening their own cause ; but with the views I hem
always bald on the subject of this man no one can be sur-
prised it I. rejoice that men eminent for their abilities and
their outory, and who have ling Wen distingband for
their 'neat services to their commie. should have separated
throwing from the rashness whisk marks the present ge-
veromeat, and should be anaiou to deliver their country
frc.m the bonus of war. ("•011," and cheers.) Hon.
teutlearen bolos do not approve of what I say, and I am
wary to say anything wbich. may offend them, many of
I whom I reckon among my personal trued.. But hon.
!members seem to think of looking beyond the very
immediate injects of the war, and that man who loon no
further is no friend to hianantry. Jr war the an., under.'
teeing win:en:said to whickthe cost is not to be counted ? Yet
nave lost 1 an. ..raw to say hcw ma .$ .nousands of
men, who a year ago wore dwellin among us as Gins as,
interested in all the slain of our social and political state ; '
and in addition to those men, you have lost, I am afraid
to say how many millions, but I belie.. 30/100,0001. or
40,000.01:0/. wouid not be beyond the cum white has been,
already 'upended. Let the house remember that the four
nations engaged in the war have already lost as many men'
as if you were to go from Chelsea to Blackwall,
and from Highgate and Hampstead to Norwood,
and take every man of the fighting age you
met and put him to death, and then you would not sacrifice '
a greater number than have been last is the twelve months
of this war. Your own troops in the Crimea have endured
horrors red sufferings aneh as the great Florentine never
Imagined in his Seminal epic. Then, are the @cerement
desolation which have been brought on the house sad
bearte of oar country to be counted for nothing ? In the last
12 years, too, we bays been undergoing a gradual ream-
tion by taxation, and there has bees an immense improve-
ment in the moral and intellectual condition of the people.
Bus in the last two years we have begun a system of reimpo-
sition of taxes, and have had recourse to loans, and have the
prospect of Uhl more extensive loan., if the war esstinuse.
Hon. genUemea may think all this nothing, and say this is
taking a low view of the case. But these things are the very
foundations of our national g ea, and you may be fol-1
lowing visionary phantoms abroad while you are becoming
rotten at home, and in the time of on childrest
or grandchildren calamities may come on ear I
country and on oar monarchy of which you
never now think at all. Evert trade bas diminished
inapt that of contractors. By bow much have not the
rewards of industry diminished ? The price of food has
been raised, and there is a pressure ea all classes' and espe-
cially on the poorest of the people, which by-aud-bye, not
now, whoa the national feeling is every morning lashed into
fury by the newspaper—(" oh, oh!" and cheers)—a dis-
content will arise which will become serious, and you, who
fancy you are following the behests of the national will,
will rue Osseouse taken by those who should have been Its
leaders. I will not mention the harvest—that is in the
hands of Providence, and God grant that it may be as
abundant as that of last year. Bat you must remember ,
that in 1863 we had the worst harvest that had been known',
for years, that prices rose to • great height, and although
last year we bad the most abundant harvest that has also I
been known for years, pries. have not much lowered, and
men of sound judgment look forward with alarm to what
may be coming on us. I ask the house if there is any
statesman who has unlimited confidence. Gentlemen on the
other side of the house of course do not place Implicit con-
fidence in the government, and many gentlemen on
this side wish that the affairs of the country were
in the hands of men of greater solidity and better
Judgment. (Laughter, and " hear.") I will point out one on
two cases to justify myself in the opinion which I openly
dealers that I have no confidence in the governs ant. Take!
the single question of what they are doing with the Empire I
of Austria. The noble lord at the head of the government
has stated that it is of European importance that Hungary
should be connected with Austria, and the noble lord
the member for London has said that it is es-
sential to support Austria in the position she holds
as a great conservative power In Europe. Yet the govern-
ment has for months been urging Austria to enter into the
same ruinous course in which they are going. They knot,
that if Austria joined Russia en the one hand, or the Wee-
tern Powers on the other in this war, that great empire I
would no longer be a solii conservative power in Europe,
that the would be stripped of Italy and Hungary, or, if
not stripped of then countries, they would be plumped
into such anarchy that the solidity of the Austrian
empire would be destroyed. What then can he
more unwise aid impolitic than the urging of Austria
into a course which every one knows would lead to the dig.
replies of her empire and destroy that solidity which you
say is essential to the preservation of the balance of power
in Europe. We are told that oar other alliance is a delicate
topic. But there is a subject still more delicate and impor-
tant, and that is the future oenditioa of that alliance in
regard to this country. We hove one before spent •
Olonsend millions to support a French dynasty. At this
element there is a French army in Italy, a French army at
Gallipoli, a Fronk army ia the Crimea, and the
sad of all this has not yet cents. It has ben already
slated by speakers in this house, and therefore
there exec reason why I should not allude to it, that the
Fessektreople are not enthusiastie on the subjeet of this
war This alliance, so far as the war is concerned (for I
hops that a reel and endurlik'frkeary frifitig is growing
up between the two temples); but so far as the war is can-,
mod this Mileage depends es One life and memo dyeally,

:o ebtathawelh:
which may be permanent or may be epliemertifiAl
men are looking forward to prolonged warfare they
look carefully at the ground on which they are a s
Lord Clarendon has end that Europe has been eteedisene a
mine, and did not know it. Ido not know that that amg.- -
lord is much mere acute than other people, bat I •
giy
that be by hie blunders will bring Europe to stand a
miss much greater and more dangerous than that be het
rowed out was laid for it by the colossal powerof E • - t
..".
Thew ill one point which is to me frightful, and tb is
when the noble lord (J. Russell) tells the house that we Star.
Beerldsg not for ourselves, bat for Citrates,. I could i.-b.
tie mealy pneeages in speeches; but really the speeches of may-
tees on this natation are so various and extraordinary, that •
I wonder that they allow them to appear in Hansard-Su
the noble lord said on 17th Feb., that " England and Praise
-
were finittiag not only for eause of the indepoule -4
Turkey, but for that of Germany, and all other Euoteas-s
nations." (Hear, bear.) An hon. member Gaye si g -
uey
bear." What notion can he have of the people of this:
Wands, if they are to be celled as to defend the 60 million-
of Germany, and that the blood of Englishmen is to be sbed.
sot for England, but the treasures and toe brave-y, am th
high spirit and courage of her soldiers, are to be emended.
not for ourselves, but are to be squandered to p
reNM
the integrity of Germany and the civilisation am
mouthing eke of all Europe. (Laughter and them)
The noble lord takes a better view of things past thee he
does of the present ; and, indeed, we Meet of u do that, I
The noble lord knows very well that we went to war nary
Mall Europe; but we did so with all Europe with u
We are now going to war with only France by oar fide,
except the little state of Sardinia, which has been forced eir
cejoled-(oh, oh)-into an Milano', and to take a mere •
which many in Sardinia will yet live to regret. We
are going to war in alliance with France alone; .
without Austria j without Prussia, without that:
many, without Italy, without Spain, without Portage". .
without Denmark: without Sweden, without Holland,
without Belgium none of the countries of Europe tau
pert in the war with us, and yet the minister, have, if I
were not it, this house I would say the effrontery me •
audacity, to say that we are fighting fir the liberties M
Europe, and that all Europe is united with its. (Sur.
hear.) In the former wars we fought for Spain, bat it wee
not until the patriots of Spain called on us to come to their
aid ; and I believe the Duke of Wellington said that lilts
had known how little aaaistanoe he was to have got from
them, be
the nations of Europe will not even lend you 'bete
men in return for your money ; for, although you an try.
log to enlist men in Switzerland and Hamburg, year mega
ere looked on with suspicion by the authorities, end 1 hie
lieve tome of them have been given into custody. (i, Hear,"
and laughter.) Why, then, pretend that all Europe is
rityleag utoedfigwhitth
thyeoubaagtitosotf REnuesmapea,
.a.ndhetnhseht
she stands
nhja
dieing at the folly you are committing ? I ask the noble
lord the member for the Colonies-(laughter)-I beg the
noble lord's pardon, but really he has occupied BO many po.
sitions of late that it is difficult exactly to identify his
with one. (Laughter.) I want to appeal to the noble lord
him,th e member enme :este
cams for Lotontdhoenco;
conclusion
showever t Ih
ha bad
differn
latest' of his unwary at heart. I have believed him
to be incapable of appreciating argument, or that he wee
actuated by any but the sincerest political b clings. I will
ask the house if there is no other world of kingdoms, ex-
cept that of Europe,with which the noble lord can entangle
this country ? I wish the noble lord would blotW.lliatnlll.
out of his mind, and what the right hon. gentleman the
member for Bucks has eaLed the Dutch congaed.
which se enthralled all the whigs. I wish the noble lord
would do that tonight for an hear-for five minable
There is • eountry called the United States of Amtriell. It
happened that on Tuesday evening last the remarkable
circumstance occurred of our having listening to oar dolling
two distinguished men who have sacepied the petition of
President of the United States-a punkt. which I hesitate
not bossy is not less is honour aid dignity than that of any
crowned monarch on the aurfece of the globe. The
Limited States of America is preohely the country which
is sunning a ram with us for paler and greaten,. Its po.
Migsat the sent census will exceed that of the United
enn. In manufactures and industry we have ao
mom formidable rivals to ear great manufacturing in-
theists. She bee steamers ten ter one of ears; her meg-
'aliteent steamships have crowd the Atlantic at a geisha
late than asyof oars. The finest vessels that navigate the
Australian seas have beee.bult in the United States. Theis-
fore, in ship-building, indastry, and commerce. she it
not only competing with, but excelling, this etweatry.
Look ati our position this year, and ampere
it with that of the United States. May I surest
the at eation of the. House of Commons to. this? I
am nee declaiming or, making any ;Arty attack, but I ma
treating of what is of vital importeue to the interests of
every family in the United Kingdom. This year the Chan-
teller of the Exchequer has told LIB that he hu to raise
138.100.0001. steelier( for the expenses of carrying on the e•
vernmeat and providing for oar military expenditure. The
United States has at this moment in her Tummy enough
to.pay_off any debt she may have. Take the eepenteed
the United Skates, not only of his general gam.
meat, Out cA that cf her thirty independent Matra
and deduct ie from the 86,000,000. we ere spendisg, aid
it will leave 74000,0001 , that we are paying this year Mee
than the people of the United States. 01 course I am speak-
ing of taxation. Most hoe. geatlemea kaow what it is to eta
a race weighted. 1 have heard of akorae-I forget drum
-which, won every race it ran until it was weighted, end
then it test the race, and it ...... tone one . keeieeida It
this we true of a hone, it was more true of a Lana; foe
when a nation one* goes back it is difficult to recover her
oositien ; and if a nation is praised in the race, it is difficult
for ato come up again in it, I wish to speak to ton.
gentlemen opposite, who were quite as much in-
tweeted in this question as any of us are - I
mean those gentlemen who are in possession of vast,
beautiful, and, I hope, uniscumbered, estates-(1SUBMIT)-••
4in various parts of the country. We are now ten days dis-
tant from the United States. In a few years wenn% no
doubt, have communication by telegraph with that mouthy
as quickly as we now have with the Crimea, and I hope for
better objects. Theis people is the same as our own, for
there are few families in this country which are not con.
united in some way with the people of the United States.
In these days attachments to home and ma's own coal-
try are somewhat weakened by the facilities obtainable for
travelling to moat parts of the world in a few weeks Dore
believe that where the capital of the greatest backlog house
in London can be transferred to the United States on a
piece of paper no larger than this which I now hold in my
hand and by one post, that the imposition of 75,00e,000i. el
taxes over that of an equal population in the iJoiteo States,
will not have an effect on the transfer of capital thither?
Declaring that he had no confidence in the administration
generally, Mr. Bright referred to the speeches and aided
of the whelps' members of the cabinet in wreaks
to show that they did not deserve his confidence
individually. He concluded : The noble lord the member
for London peculiarly presents himself to my mind's eye at
this moment as a statesman in whom I should not place inn
plicit coofidenoe. (Hear, hear.) What can be more re-
markable than the experiences of the noble lord of late
times? During his tenure of office in Lord Aberdeen's
government, at Bedford, at Greenock, I think, certainly at
Bristol-is fact, whenever he could find an opportunity of
bringing himself before the public, he did all that lay in
him, by his great power of speech, his long experience, and
hie eminent character, to stimulate the people of this coun-
try to a policy which I believe is destructive of the country's
interests, and which I think the majority of this house, in
their calmer momenta, are disposed to consider not the
wisest that might have been pursued. I don't know how
the noble lord's conduct maytbe regarded by other,; bat
it appears to me most unjustifiable that whilst his thie4
Lord Aberdeen, was honestly endeavouring, as l Nines
to bring the negotiations to a peaceful conclusion, the noble
lord was endeavouring, on the contrary, to rouse the went
passions of the people, and to make statesmanship sad
caution valueless in conducting the fureign policy of the
nation. Why, the noble lord had finally brought that Ovi-
duct to a climax. My hon. and 1 d friend the megabit
foe Sheffield (Kr. Roebuck) was the little David (geed
laughter) who with a sling and stone (renewed laughter)-
h, did not even use the weapon that was in his hand, he
merely showed it to the noble lord-the sort el
whig Goliath of English politic-(laughter)-sad
the noble lord went vanquished and howling to
the back benches. (Much laughter) I am afraid
to trust myself to speak of the conduct of the noble lord ca
that occasion. lam afraid we shall have to wait for the
advent of the Somerset historian, fee whose coming the
noble lord pants-(laughter)-before we can know whetter
the noble lord's conduct was dictated by what some people
call treachery to his chief, or by that description of moral
cowardice which, in any man, is the death of all ties
statesmanship. (Hear, hear.) But toe noble lord gave to
a string reason is 1862 why we should not have confidence
in hie present chief. Does not the house recollect the night
when the noble lord made that explanation of the num
which had induced him unceremoniously to eject the noble
lord the member for Tiverton from his cabinet? (Imaginal
He told as that Lord Grey and Lord Melbourne, being m's
of great authority and experience, were able in some
degree to control his noble friend-(opposition laughter)
-but that he himself-I forget his precise weteh
but lam c 'erectly giving the substance-he himself, being
younger than the noble lord, and not having been to long
on the pelttical stage, had found it difficult, if not iseles'
sible, to control him (Laughter.) In fact, my lutPree**l
at this moment of what be acid is this, that he described
the noble lord the member for Tivertoa as a runaway honk
who had got the bit in his teeth, so that there wane hold'
lug him. (Laughter.) At that time the noble lord the
member for London was captain of the state vessel, end the
noble lord the member for Tiverton was mate. Whet b
the case now? The noble lord the member for Load,*
hue accepted the position of a mate, and in most pelilo4l_,
times, in mat tempestuous weather, and with no char'
before him, he goes to sea to make an apparently inn;
minable voyage with the very restless captain whom help%
described. (Laughter.) Sir, the noble lord (Lord a
Russell) has made a defence of hie conduct in the sen
ferencea at Vienna. I am willing to give him credit !m
es having honestly intended a peace; but I dO think that van;
be goes again on such a journey he ought to leave toms
.e!
his historic allusions behind him. They are what may
called historic fescue. (Laughter.) Nothing could, to . oe!
1_
mind, be so out of pleat as the comparison between
_(.._
limitation which he proposed to Rosie and the dates'
tion of Dunkirk, or between the position of the oln.
II
Sea
ae
annodblethelordixici‘olu°lnd
the Fells of Niagara. (Laughter.) If there
lied..'
Falls of Niagara between the leek Sea and the Pi r...
terranun wk the case would be somewhat similar; r!
UM the 1 Met in tits Black Sea, whether it vests
ofeentieollyakesesvoefr Nboarvoth
hAtatoreaLlc:

are circuit. no
Isereed 'rimed op
wpm the Ruth,'
Lord BROUO
Deumbtrr)—and
him uubtli sad lets
he wit happy t
arnalt =11.4116101
ffiarliSi 1.0.16 I
as/ Isaehter) ;
fa health and its
been so kirdly p
would do asythi
wen were left it
brought to trial.
iI I CAME
The shove bill
a prolonged dire
\ IN
The LORD I
of this bill. It
! o party bp person
The bill wu
i i ' ECCLIISIAST
i . ibis bill Well
The house ad
HOUSE 01
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Mr. ,)lON
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•
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