The Express.
London, England, 1852-05-04 00:00:00

I

thsa Chargers de Timmins. hitherto
t Wu.*; were to have ea additive of TPA Bra. la
rm ertelehlt teeepo. a
r0W,100.1.70,,„f co a
et
the
te be bet there week'
rresruailing &mate lathenewepees may. Wee
wt be • ce
h rmy, then, to be Milemsed ? la the
east of the lord the resabst ter Lewis the ether
ht then ger, two suggestisUS worthy •ff
.4,i...A the embodiment of a Leger amber st pow
about 10,00 u (es we understood). is
Soldem) did nut think that corgis MOM
,ed to that extent, but he theme* Oleg
miglth.e.-I:nich increasedand they.would,forMarketbo
of
isenne
• , of forte. the noble lord also
sorriojne..n el 10,900 militia. He (Captain Spider's)
• would be better if that number of regular troops
geigh- .1
hs•.a who would be more serviceable and
Ile
et.,Wo•e thought that this bill should Ire passed,
...min; the compulsory part of it, the ballot, and if the
farm t „ "is r. stored from five years to three years,
;Lid the bounty of 01. spread over the three years, it would
• • lallitht week for that time for only 21 days' ser-
tuir7C year; that rum would gardens,he rent of many of
[!Turd labourers' mitigates and and the militia,
rpm beiog thought a hardship, would by received
with ▪ fhr
gratitude. If 40,000 men were obtained fur •
mama voluntary enlistment, they would form
the nevielis of an effective force. He did not think
then ...s my immediate fear of invasion, but the state of
Irria‘u ss 'itch es to cause some appfehrus'oni on that
run' tie theueht that the militia should nut have the
Mee en form as the Mint, but one something like the pen-
••ie. which only cost it :ie. The hon. and gallant nom-
be. 0, oluerred that he hoped the house would
the amendment as merely an etfert to impede
•-• m soil wou6l go into committee to deal with
the 1., a psi [:cal 111.,ItUvr.
Ile 1;I:Iti II could 1..• understand the conduct of the
bit. ei n'!. nun the Secretary to the Admiralty. The hon.
matienauslead taken upon tinned( almost to lecture, end
irertainiv ta inter at, the hon. member for theWeit
go the st.nt and accuracy of that hon. member's informe-
rs,. ogi roe al affairs. ts, cow that the Secretary to the
Mdiutos.., h of euly h.. n in his office about sic weeks, and
pre Hole 1.1 talking mile, ha 1 not distinguished himself by
env prefundity en naval affairs, he (Mr. Bright) could not
th,nking that if the lion. gentleman (Mr. Stafford)
,a. 001,..trut to occupy the position he had occupied that
ugh:. h in. friend ~Mr. Cotsgen), who hid sat ter three
y' its er. es intimately connected with this subject,
eu.;ht at tree[
fairly entitled to lay his views be-
pee the bun.. tCheer. ! lie rose to Maintain the views
of b o. nu red. 1 h. hero. member who had just sat
data 6.d represented this motion as • motion to cause de-
ft, ,Mr. bright) denied that ; it was a motion to
the farts as to the means of defence before the
gamey. (liar. hoar.) So fee the house and the
many were proceeding in ignorance of the exact
bag, A mild,' bill involved this trilling eircum-
ce—that it propmed very nearly, if not quite, to
death this numbs., of oenons within the United Kingdom,
esaatelvd nth the prole...lion of arms. (Rear, hear) And,
asteithdarrOier ere preamble to the 42nd George ill.,
irbich a, t w s. incorporated with the bill now before the
bow,., a h. nin it was state I whereas • respectable
nuntary ham under the command of officers possessing
'sided property within (treat Britian is essential to
the conititution,” he took the liberty of asserting
that rat establishne.nts beyond • demonstrated ne.
moil see,' quite contrary to the ....institution of the coun-
try, aml win repugnant to the spirit of the representative
Wl:tan-re. everywhere. Representative institutions im-
psi s gamesmen% hosed upon the good will of the people ;
and :unitary establishms nes to support the ;osteologist
wire utitovesiaty in a country enjoying such institutions.
Be *mod undertake to prove, that a measure like this
would be h.stite to the industry and freedom of the country;
sad that. there being no necessity for it, there was not so
Whreg to the country which would not be prejudiced by
B. Ile would view this measure in reference to the prin.
eikl.s issue:4 recognised hi that house—the principles of ex-
pihericy :mil policy; soil he would waive for a moment
thine Wont tidings, on this question, which he no
doubt ens. ; but in which be could not expect
many h. o in. rah, es would sympathise. Ile looked hauls to
the pot history ut the cuun.ry for facts to guide him in this
debate. The nght hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the
Soloquer bail referred rorrowlully on Friday night to the
imartiele.-torgotten 28,000,0001. which we had sunually to
pay ► interest On • principal sum of 800,000,0001., which
ear feretathers had expended in war. Since the cessation
of war we had spent annually • sum equal to about
11.00,0 Of., being the interest on an additional sum of
fieteetialllol., Inc the purpose of guarding against war.
and, after all this expenditure in war, and in the prepare-
fiell ler war, and after nearly forty years of peace,
the government came forward and declared that
Less are agreed to spend 350,0001. more, what
had gorse befare would be useless, and England most
be regarded in hourly danger (Laughter and cheers.)
Be asked for the evidences of the eagerness of the
french people fora war with England. Ile pointed to the
pn,nat ent of Louis Philippe, to the provisional FOirefik.
sot ue•ler Lamartine, to the republic and the National
Aormlq, and he would ask if anything had occurred
meter au of those governments to indicate an essentially
sari hhglials spirit? They could and no pretext in the
miuut government of France. Nothing had happened
nuc lb, eury. date( to show that the French people were
slaloms for a quarrel. (Hear, hear.) Theo he altogether
denied that
ittlthey had • shadow of ground fur their present
at-
pre (and he was not one of those who were in-
closed to attack our press for its boldness) for months
alter *hat was called by some the usurpation of Louis
tiats.leoa had poured on incessant fire of accusation against
the new system ; and yet, with the whole ones of Paris at
the disposal of the President, not a syllable had appeared
is the way of reply to suggest that any international hate
had been provoked. Ile (Mr. Bright) would admit meek
against Louis Napoleon; but he reigned with the approval
of Fran,-, attested by the votes of the wejor4 et the
people. It there was ego reason mege than ter why
he tolerated, it was beaus then was a easeelemessee
in the lie irt oh the people of Flume that, although as de-
fence cou'ol be offered for the means be had taloa, edll la
the results he had produced, sad la the system be
had organised, was to be head the BairMD-
curity for at least the temporary mese a the
coutry. Of course, therefore, this semlldemers dr
redid upon a peace policy, and the prestige of Leah
Napoleon's government would immediately disappear spa
the slightest suspicion that a piratical and marauding ea.
peditim to England was contemplated. (Hear, hear.)
TU noble lord the member for Tiverton was the real
tither of this bill. (A laugh.) The noble lord was for •
militia hid in 184 h—in feet it was his hobby; and hie
peat influence had induced the noble lord the member for
legion to adopt his views, lie should like to know why
the noble lord the member for Tiverton was afraid ? Did
he 'spirt danger from that ruler whom conduct he had
himself applauded? lie was not sure that the noble lord
had not stated in one of his despatches that the peace of Europe
had been secured by the President of France. Rat the
table lord was no authority to him on that speraiseka
althoueh the proposition for a militia was perfectly Ml
tent with the noble lord's system of poliPes. The UM&
meat Di • militia would liberate troops for font* sok%
and enable the noble lord to carry on that universal aOll,
many and incessant interference with foreign couatriee of
which he was so fowl, as it was generally believe=j;
was never so happy as when cajoling or bullyin
Name foreign country. The lion. and leanmed
the member for Sheffield had called the noble largle=
seta. and thin militia bill was necessary, he (Mr. 1111
rapp.td, to act as an extinguisher for some of the wale
!sal 's conflagrations. Bat he thought the
had :lead paid dear enough for the project of the
lord. Hear, hear," and cries of "Divide.") They boil
heard of the number of ships on the coast of Africa, and of
the wars waged with savage princes in that country. (Cries
of ') Indeed, the noble lord'a doing so little for
fl rim at home, and so much for freedom abroad, re-
minded him of a character in Mr. Dickens's last work.
Ile thought that the nobleloed might truly be called the
Miss Jellahy of statesmen. (A laugh.) Thelon:slim they
were docussiog was not so mach one of fact as of
impression and sentiment. (Impatience and cries
of " Divide divide.") He would not detain the
house with details. He objected to the bill,
• r, and he objected to any increase of force as •
sehstitute, because on ease whatever bad been made. The
hoe. member concluded by expressing his intention to op-
pose the bill, and stating that if ever it passed that house it
wool! be quite impossible to work it in the country.
(Cheers.)
Mr. WIIITESIDE said that the house had received some
useful information from the two members, who might pro-
perly be said to represent the great centres of intell*ence.
The hon. member for the West Riding bad informed them
fl at . t,ry one of our ships was in the wrong place, and they
Loui h. an] from the hon. member for Manchester, that every
eminent statesman in this country wu wrong in his opinion.
The hon. member for the West Riding bad repudiated in-
terference with the affairs of foreign nations ; but was
there any member of that house who had dealt stronger
denunciations against foreign nations, of whose con-
duct he disapproved, than the hon. member himself 1 (Hear.)
The Inn. member had appealed from that house to the con-
itilarneiri, and in so doing had violated the
theory of the constitution. He would, in short,
Invert our mixed g .vernment into an absolute
0..m0i racy. (Conservative cheers.) The hon. member I
hot aikid where was our navy Would it not be always at
Lod lc pre vent invasicu I The same question had been
asked of Mr. Pitt when the French fleet escaped our &d-
-read in • fog and appnvaehed the moat of Ireland. If
that armament had landed in Ireland the would have been
tom tram the British empire only to be reconquered at the
f millions of money and oceans of blood. (Hear.)
Lit that was act the only instance. He wanted to know
.t ea. that the French fleet cooped from floehrgle,
• 1,.* Nipper Tandy was enabled to land an the
to rust .f Ireland Ile was struck with the ildwas
.d ti, ereurnente addressed to the house The
• ..1 Ih• amble lord (Lord John Russell) menet
hel".:er '1 he opinion of the noble lord (Palmentmg the
I. Tiverton went for nothing, and theh.tlf
• men who sat on that (the lainiste • z it Ibe
nt for nothing. And what motive fillig le
deter. [acts? bey knew the truth, he hp-
la see( ha,l spoken the truth ; bet white SSW
aluc" woe mentioned it we. wet 11110 MIA
st Chatham or of Burke - that they %S Idle Nes of
NI hat they had heard the rigid 111.
asiowe r Inc Wiltshire say that that Illimet stateeewel
wegst.'l to him the propriety of segnaising the
7..•.
.. il cono.lidating the militia law. That maid
" !, member tor the West !tiding: the great *WWI,
that h' tip to had declared against Ida. The bah
Meneheocr commenced his spas* by
•• it ithionstitational thing to have a al& sad
.r a re
I%
44"
br't• unlit presentative serameat. 161•1111

did he tad that the militia was an ameastitationel form t
It had existed in this country, not merely from the time of
Charles I. or Charles 11., bat front the time of Alfred, and
it was maiataised by Chatham in 1766.

Mr. BRIGHT explained.—He had not said that a militia
was tincenamitatietsal. What he said or meant to say was
that the oilstones of • military form was contrary to tit;
spirit of representative institutions, sad that say force be-
yond that which was absolutely necemary was antagonistic
to the principle of the constitution.

. •
Mr. WHITESIDE—But who was to pronounce upon
the necessity? (Lend cheers.) Wu it the triumphant
majority of the house who had promonneed an opinion,
or was it the minority—however respectable end vigorous,
or intellectual? Were they at liberty to argue that
it was unconstitutional when the question had been settled
by thu only tribunal known to the constitution? 'They
might tell him it was very expensive—and so it was. But
was it so expensive an invasion or insurrection, and was not
the apprehension of war or invasion almost as Injurious as
war or invasion themselves? The bon. gentleman said
this danger was all visionary, and that if there were any
danger he could not discover it from what had taken place
in Fraure. Was not France a vast military power, and
was it not centered in ene hand? That was the ground,
and the rational ground, for apprehension' because the
same rules and principles that would apply to settled
order end government could not he applied in this case. But
the hon. gentlemaii said the effect of a militia was to cor-
rupt. Where did he find that the use of arms was to cor-
rupt. Ile agreed with the hon memher fur the West Riding
that they had nothing to gain by war, lout they might have
everything to lose. If there were, as the hon. !mother fur
Manchester said—if there were glory in war, of that they
bad had enough. They could not excel their 11:114 victo-
ries, nor surpass the splendour of their military triumphs.
But this measure was peaceful ; it was intended to maintain
peace, to preserve the institutions under which they lived,
and to transmit to p .sterity the blessings incalculable that
thee enjoteil. (Loud cheers.)
Mr. RICE sppealcol to the hon. member for the West
Riding (Mr. Cobden) not to divide the lhow.e. If he did,
he for one could not vote with him. Ito voted against the
second reading, because he believed toe proposed militia
would be useless fur the defence of the country. and because
he objected to the compulsory clauses. But after the dila-
' 'ion on the second reading, his object now was to get into
committee as soon as possible, for the purpose of removing
throe compulsory clauses.
Mr. M.UREUOIt most el the adjournment of the
debate.
Mr. MITCIIELL seconded.

ihe6iIANIIIII6IiWiIVe EXCHEQUER said it ap-
peared to him the question had been amply debated, but it
there were one ur two gentlemen who wished to express
their opinions to the house, he was sure the house would
hear them; but he hoped they might divide upon the
amendment of the hon. member for the West Riding to-
night, and that the motion for adjuurnmeut would not be
pressed.
Mr. GIBSON hoped the right hon. gentleman would
consent to the adjournment.
The house then divided :

For the adjournment
Against it 291
Najletty. against —223
On oar resealmilaion into the gallery we found that
Captain Sanwa, had moved the adjournment of the
house.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would,

under any circumstances, leave opposed the motion, Mos:
much as its effect was to stop the progress of business alto-
gether. (Cheers.)
Mr. MITCHELL supportid the motion. Ile did not
think that, considering the grave nature of the bill, it had
been sufficiently debated. (Hear, hear.) They had only
had two nights on the second reading, and they had only
had half a night upon the present motion. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. WAKLEY assured the right hon. gentleman that, as
fu as his knowledge went, this was a most unpopular mo-
tion. (Cheers.) Ile therefore felt it to he ahsolutely his
duty to obstruct its progress by every means in his power,
and at every stage. (hear, bear.) It was his desire to see
the bill defeated; for he believed it to be in every respect
an unconstitutional and prejudicial measure. (Cheers.)
He hoped the right bon. gentleman would consent at least
to the adjonniasent of the debate. (Hear.)
The Marquis of GRANBY observed that if hon. gentle-
men opposite were determin, d to obstruct the public buil-
sinew, he hoped that at h a,t they would not affect to be
anzioas foe a speedy dinoilution. (Cheers.)
Mr. BRIGHT hoped the right bon. gentleman would
consent to the adjournment. The right hon. gentleman
had himself often pressed 3 similar motion. ([leer.)
Mr. CLAY thought time should be given to consult the
feeling of the country ; and that, seeing the number of peti-
tions which had been presented against it, it ought not to be
passed at that hour of the night.
Lord J. RUSSELL suggested that nothing would be
gained by opposing the motion for adjourning the debate.
Perhaps an arrangement might be made by which it might
be mused to-morrow. (Hear, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had felt it
necessary to oppose the adjournmect of the house, but,
bowing to the higher authority of the noble lord, he was
willing to consent to the adjournment of the debate, and
hoped that those hon. gentlemen who had motions on the
paper for to-morrow would consent, in obedience to the
noble lord's suggestion, to postpone them, in order to allow
this debate to be then resumed. (hear, hear.)
Captain BCOBILL withdrew his motion, and the debate
was adjourned till to-morrow (this day).
The Registration of Births, Deaths, and Marriages Dill
was read a second time.
_ . .

The report of the Committee on Compensations, in re-
spect to the Secretary of Ilmikrupte Office Abolition, was
received mid agreed to; and the compensation clause was
inscribed in the bill incommittm..

The house attoursed at oue o'clock.

PARLIAMENTARY COMMITTEES.
METROPOLIS WATER SUPPLY COMM ITT EL—Yeder-
day the provisions in the government bill mere to have been
considered and settled ; but, in consequence of some
misunderstanding, the matter was deferred, and the com-
mittee proceeded to examine Mr. Simpson, engineer to the
Chelsea Water Works, on the merits of that company's
meteor.. _ _

OXFORD, WORCISTIR, AND WOLIFIRRAMPTON RAlL-
WAT.—Yeeterday, in the cue of this company's petition for
additional provision, the examiners declared that the stand-
orders were not complied with.
CLAVIIIIIIN'S FLAX COMFANT.—Yesterday, in Mr. Ber-
nal's committee, the preamble of this bill was declared
proved.
LIVIIRIPOOL CoRPORATIO.4 WATERWORX/.—Yesterday
the committee of the Mouse of Lords declared the we-
amble of this bill to be proved, so far only as relates to the
proposed deviation of the main conduit pips at various
places, through the property of Sir J. Geare4 between be-
tween 'Lindley, and Knowsley, and negativing those portions
of the bill for reservoirs at Aspall, Ashtee, and Ecelceton,
sad supply of water to Hisulley, Ashton, and Present.

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