The Express.
London, England, 1864-07-09 00:00:00

Wi°

al
'. 4-* war 111. ve 1/4 so well ecosidered the
to make • =soh isopoolamos ; or
• r mei • political capital
• Iv wad $ obtain office as the
of the weak. (Rear.
)4, •ba ' sympathy for the
• sylipathy woo °: a justification for our going to
which ought never to be entered upon unites therein
claims of justice to support it—(hear, hear) ;
sad 1 f ears that the feelings of the floglish pools. brit
are end of the oountry to the other, are is favour of
'especially since the question has been naderetood.
The treaty of 1852 bound us to acknowledge Christian IS.
ea King of Denmark, but it did not bind us to go to war io
favour of supporting him upon the throne—Do snore, In.
deed, than we were bound by the treaty of Vienna
to go to war oe behalf of Poland kat year.
Then, if this country was not bound to go to
war, we were bound to do all we could to prevent
it, or to try sod find woe ammo of bringing it to a °nada-
sion, and my noble fried exhibited all the seal which
aprings from throatily is &jest cause by sppealieg to the
Garman powers to preserve their good faith in the trusty
of 1882. That course of my noble friend was pursued
honestly, and he used no language of menace or abuse to
these great powers of Germany. My noble friend opposite
will recollect how he war censured for his conduct while in
office in refereace to a question between Austria sad
Russia. _ .

The Earl of MALMESBUR Y —Yes, we were turned out
at office. (Loather.)
The Earl of CLAII.F.NDON —Perhaps not for that only.
However' I am *mum my noble friend that if any vote of
immure had been brought against him for the management of
those affairs, then I should have voted in hie favour, betasse
I thought he was Situated, and that his policy was sound,
and if it miscarried through no fault of his own, & vote of
censure would have been an unworthy proceeding. (Hew.
hear.) I now say the same thing in reference to the con-
duct of my noble friend near me. It is perfectly true the
his efforts to maintain peace have failed, and that %beim-
foresee has failed, but that has been a great boon to his
political opponenta, who are always looking out far
whom they might devour. (Laughter.) I think the
conduct of my noble friend sad his colleagues has
this for ita defence, that it has met with the
sympathy of the people in every part of England. Then
felt satisfied with the government in not allowing England
to be drawn into a war without a just cause. The govern-
ment have resisted all the temptations which were held out
to induce them to go to war, and also all the provocations
and all the appeals—some honest and some the reverse—
which were held out to them, and I my eonstheatioualy that
this oountry is at peace without disbooour. (Hear, hear.)
I cordially re-echo the sentiment explained by the Earl of
Derby a few evenings ago, when he mid, " Much ea 1 love
peace, I toren:near more ;" and if I thought that peace
was inconsistent with the Imeour of this country I would
advocate war, but I see no reason why weshoeld go to VW.
all that we were bound to do was to observe the treaty of
1852—• treaty which five powers had recognised. I will
not stop to inquire bow far that treaty differs from other
treaties, but I say we ware no more bound than the ether
powers to carry it into operation, and we bad less means
to secure It—and ask why should we go alone sallying
forth to do that which the other powers would not do ?
Why should we have departed from the policy of DOD-
istorvention—(hisr, hear)—which is the policy always
first to be considered? (•• Hear. hear." from the opposi-
tion.) Bat my noble friend who spoke lest says we were
perpetually giving advice to Denmark. To that I answer
that Denmark from the beginning was told not to expect
material support from us, sod Lord Workhouse when he
went to Copenhagen said the same thing, and the Danish
minister admitted this. Mr noble friend and I in the con-
ference constantly told the Danish representatives that they
must sot expect rapport from this 'country, and M. gaud*
unsatisfied that we had never varied our opinion on that
point. I will min every candid man who has read thspro-
tocols whether they do not justify the conference ? W ily,
there were six weeks armistice, and the territorial question
was narrowed down to a small district The proposi-
tion is reference to the line of demarcation was refused,
but it was made with the most, anxious desire to serve Den-
mark. I should have been glad if Denmark had accepted
the proposal, because it will be utterly imposeible for her
to sustain the treaty of 1862, and she never can restore bar
authority over Shang and Holstein. If the lies proposed
by the neutral powers had been accepted, the portion of
northern Slued& allotted to Denmark would have formed a
sort of neutral ground betweeen Demark and Germany. My
opinion is that the Danish question would never have taken
the form it did, or that the German powers would have
acted as they Wye done, if there bad not been a
moieties between the governments of France and England.
(Hear,hear.) It wads matter so important that it could not be
°lamented, that the good feeling between the two countries
should be maintained, and if that were so disputes which
constantly arose in different parts of the world would more
speedily be settled. I admit that there was a soreness and
irritation between Frame and England, and it was not un-
natural, but it was without foundation. We all know that
France would have gone to war with Russia in reference to
Poland if Auden would have joined and we had
But it was not our interest to go to war.""Zd
war
commenood public opinion in this country might
have forced ths into it on behalf of the Pole
s.l
We, however, declined to go to war, end now I
believe that every reasonable Frenchmen considers that we
did Franca a great service by not &Meting her at that time,
for a war for Poland might have raised a greater war than
the one of 1812. When the Emperor proposal a coegres,
he overlooked obstacles which must have anew, for there
would have been no power to enforce the decrees of such a
coogrem, and it was too much to expect that such power'
would assent to the proposals which might have been made
by a simple "Aye ^ or • No." The Congress was do.
dined by nay noble friend in a manner which no French-
man could take offence at, for none was meant, and the
reply having been frankly given, the good relations
between the two countries ought not to have been inter-
rupted. But Frame her not been lees active in the cause
of Denmark than ourselves, sad the Emperor sad his
government have acted throughout in the mart Isocioursble
manner, and in reference to Denmark the proton** will
show that the two governments have acted throughout im
the most friendly manner towards each other. (Hear, bear.)
I may say the same of the representatives of the other
powers. Our relations with all the power except the two
German powers were of a friendly character. I would,
thee, ask my noble friend in what consists that loss of
influence of which he complains, and which be says is dan-
gerous to the peace of Europe. My noble friend has quoted
French newspapers, and it is upon the been of artistes in
newspapers that your lordships are called upon to affirm
the resolution ; it Is the idle talk of foreign redactetlrs and
the diatribes of finings correspondents, re-echoed by party
spirit, which has onputed the falescharge that Englaad oaths
promises to Denmark sad afterwards broke them, and that
in consequence, she has been reduced to the
position of a fifth-rate power. I will not com-
plain of what is said or written abroad, for ten
times worse things are mid and written at home. Binh talk
withal-1 will not rain it to the rank at sheer
nonsense. (Hear, bear.) England does not lose caste by
not rushing into war without sufficient cause. (Chun.) The
statesmen of England know what are the resources of Eag-
lead, moral and material, and they know how well those
resources may be applied ; they know how irresistible is the
force of public swim I. this smithy, bow slow the
people of England are te believe in the inesesity of
dotal to war bat how they rise esone man
in defence of their homer and dignity whenever they are
really attacked. (Hear, hear.) I must my, then, that 1
utterly disregard all such words as I have referred to, let
them come from what quarter they may. I my they can
have no importance unless they good the government into
a course which they ere not disposed to take, and 1 hope
your lordships will not this evening give them importunes
by permitting them to iodine you to pass a resolution de-
claring that this country has fallen from her high estate
among the nations of the world. (Chasm.)
Lord CHELMSFORD mid the noble duke (the Duke of
Argyll) did not touch a single point on which his noble
friend based his resolution. The noble duke suggested that
tint resolution was the work of sixteen gentlemen, who
were divided into a peace party sad a war patty. Was
there not a pews party and a war party in the cabinet •
which also consisted of sixteen member, beide' Showell;
duke himself ? (Hear, bear.) The Dottie duke after stating
that this was a faction fight, promised to my before he
set down what he thought of the opposition, but he did not
fulfil that procaine, sad they were still 311 moos:sacs what
he thought of them. (Laughter.) Aa to the questioa,
what would have been the policy of the opposition if they
had been in power, he utterly dirtied that the noble drake
had a right to raise that issue ; but be would say that in
dealing with the contending parties they would uot, on the one
hand, have held out hopes and expeetatioes merely
to dash them to the ground, leaving the power
I that relied upon them in a worse condition
'than she was before—(elseers)—end on the other
band, they would not hays used menacing and insulting law
Image which by their after conduct they showed meant
nothing, and which, therefore, produced onl disregard sad
contempt. (Load cheers.) In order that this quaeties might
be narrowed within reasonable limits, he would fired con-
sider the state of affairs at the time of the 600•11111100 of
the King of Denmark on the 15th November last. That
enocessioa was recorded, not gesaanteed, by the treaty of
1852, by which it was unready *Mud that it was entered
into for the maintenance of the integrity of the Dunk
monarchy. All the great power at Europe, and all the
minor powers except at; either were parties to that
treaty or acceded to it. In the discussions which had
recently taken place, it had been assumed that Austria and
Nunn signed the treaty with reservations against the in-
corporation of Sleserig with the kiagdom of Desearkrind in
favour of the rights of the Confederation over the Duchies ;
but the language of the sable earl the
Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs was opposed to that
view. The noble earl said that the engagements of 1851,
which preceded the treaty, were singularly obscure, but
there were two engagements upon which there °avid be very
little doubt, one being an agreement on the part et Austria
and Prussia that the administration of Sleewig and Holstein
should continue separate, the other an engagement on the
part of Denmark not to incorporate Sleswig or take any
slept tending thereto. A fatal legacy was left by the late
King to his successor in the coutitution which he bad
framed for Sleswig ; but that constitution was favourable
to the liberties of Holstein, as was shown by Sir A. Paget.
Austria sad Prussia objected to it booms it conferred
liberal institutions, and de Bismarck told the noble
lord opposite (Lord Wodehouse) distinctly when be was on
his unsocosseful minion that Germany and Denmark would
never be friends as long as Denmark retained her demo-
cratic, inetitutioss. (Hear, bear.) A few days before the
death of the late King the French Emperor inoposed a

- -
aggress for the settlement of disputes which threatened to
disturb the peace of Europe, end it was highly probable
that if at that period there had been a cordial concert and
co-operation between the French Emperor sad the English
government none of the disastrous calamities which had
fallen on Denmark would have ensued. (Hear. )As reprdedthe
declaratios of the noble lord at the heed of the govern-
meet that Denmark would not stand aloes if she were
attacked, it could not be said that it was the mere effect of
Aanddsia Impalas of the noble late generous nature, for
he had due notice of the question which led to it. Nether
was it uttered in • spirit of yropbecy it was• promise, a
and was a and accepted by Denmark.
liar, hear.) In his first despatch after that public
ties, dated October 13, 1863, the Pantie Seeretary
impressed as the Danish government that it should not op.
pas the threatened federal execution miler it were extended
to Sleririg, implying that they should opposeit in that event.
Could the Danes suppose that it was meant that they should
alone oppose an invading fora of 68,000 men with
between 30,000 and 40,000? (Hear, bear.) It was
idle to imagine that the Danes would suppose
that the noble lord wished them to rash on their own
destruction by resisting overwhelming numbers. (Hear.)
They mart also bear in mind, with reference to these hopes
and expectations held out to Denmark, what were the terms
in which the noble earl was addressing the Diet at that arta.
tiler period. The noble earl said that if the Diet took
daps for a still further object, and invaded Holstein. to
amen the King of Denmark to arrange certain rights
which the German Confederation claimed as belonging to
Sisewig, the Diet would be entering upon a grave European
quatiora on which it was competent quite as much to any
other European government to form an opinion. Again,
on the 29th September, 1863, the noble earl said that the
aim of the federal execution consisted onmietakeably in
carrying out the Diet's decree to establish between the said
Diet and the Dank, people a general coostitntion connecting
them by a oomaiou ann, and that it was impossible to shut
their eyes to the gravity of tint question. The noble
lad further said that her Majesty's goversionst could not
ere with indifference a military occupation of Holstein, and
they could got reagens that occupation as a legitimate
exercise of the powers of the Coalederatien, or admit it
could properly be ailed a federal execution. At that time
nefortunately the King of Denmark placed the Geishas
hand to the coaririntion, and he (lad Chelmsford) much
regretted this was does. It was a violation of the some-
mat of 1351, and of course increased the embarrassment,
which wee not diminished by the claim of the Doke of
Auguatenburg. Just at this critical moment the noble earl,
when it would have been most important to secure thecae-
eert and cooperation of the French Emperor, refused to
join the general congress. (Hear, Intr.{ Her Majesty%
government absequerily reocentneded that the poloist of
the 30th Much should be revoked, but Austria and Prowls
refined to be satisfied with the concession offered, and in-
sisted in the most peremptory manner on the revocation of
the constitution within forty-eight boors. The potion re-
fused to listen to all the entreaties of the noble earl and
Launched the thunderbolt of war against Deemark—Hol-
stein was occupied, Skew ig was taken as a material guano-
tee. linden advance was made into Jotland. Theo that pro-
ceeding tea place which he must confess appeared to him
the very wont feature is the policy of Use government.
(Hear. hear.) They attempted to justify to Denmark the
forcible ponionio• which had been taken of her territories,
and the noble earl said that had her Majesty's go. em men t been
willing to give a material assistance she would have a right
to preseriathe maser ia which aim should fulfil her aegage.
moots to Germany; but that as they bad sever offered
material aid, so, oe the other hand, they had never goes
a'.loffering trivia. It was perfectly trot that no direct
material support was made, but there had been •
strongly implied promote. (Hear, hear.) What should
have been the cause of the govereinent ? The noble earl
who last addressed the house thought the opnositioa were
all (*Slog oat for war. They did no such thing. Wear,
bear.) They said the goverenieet should have maintained
pence, but if they did not intend to assist Denmark they
should have distinctly stated so and followed the souse of
the Emperor of the French, who clearly and distinctly gave
Denmark so understand there was no iataatioe to offer
material aid ad sasistaeoe in bee conflict with Germany.
Hs thought he had established to the eatiefectiee of their
lordships that there were hopes and expectances held out to
Denmark of material asking" and that those hopes had
been cruelly disappointed. (Hear, hear.) There had been
in our conduct with regard to the aggreerive powers an
exhibition of menaciog and insulting language. followed at
times by the greatest subruiniveoem—alternatives between
beat and aid, between weakness and violence—eaculated to

bring Mangan:l sod contempt upon this °pantry. (Hear.)
It use well known from the first that Austria and Freesia
made the federal execution a pretext for their own designs
in Sleswig. They expressed themselves in the most
plausible meaner, end when the noble earl talked of
invasion, they objected, stating that it was only
a guarionee—se Ancient Pistol, when secured of stealing,
said indignantly, " Sisal I—reeinry." (A langh.) The
German powers denied that the federal 'anuses was a
hostile proceeding—they maid it might wear the face of
war, bet it was only &meek, and if they looked underneath
they would ste nothing but " material guarantee." The
fault of the government at this time was that they bad no
policy. They sometimes th Night the beet course was to
pet a bold face upon things, while at others they thought
it boner to turn away. GOTMABY illieskalfd. if she
esafounded the two duchies, that others might also confound
them as much to the danger of German independence se
German interference in Sheawig was to the lads
peados» of Denmark. Thee it wee declared that
if Waal troops entered Holstein es purely fe-
deral grounds her Majesty's government would not inter-
fere, but if the interference was upon isteroatienal mends
her Malady's goveroment might be obliged to interfere.
Bet the noble earl then felt that he bad goo* too far, and
in his next despatch he said, " I hays to state that the line
of policy of her Majesty's government to the question at
isms botweeri Denmark and Germany is perfectly clear—
that policy is to advise Austria and Prang, sad the other
powers who signed the treaty of London, to adhere to their
engagements, sod to advise Denmark to adhere to all her
eggsgsainits with Germany." (Hear, hear, from the minis-
terial vide.) The noble earl bad told them that the eampage•
moots of 1851.2 were siegularly obsenre, and he was aware
that Austria and Prussia insisted that they had bees relieved
from their treaty to by the war. (Hear, hear.)
He had no objection whatever to a mild policy ; all he ob-
jected to in the noble earl's ease was his alternation of
policy. The noble earl then took upon himself to advise
Austria in what meaner the federal execeties should be
conducted, that it should be serially limited to en-
forcing in Helstedu the rights of the federation in that duchy,
and that it should pot extend to any parts of the frostier
with respect to which soy doubt. =Med as to their belong-
ing to the ducky. That despatch was met with the moil
perfect indifi'ereens, sod the soMe earl then had recourse to
threats ; but finding that the unwind se better, he on the
31st of December warned Prossia that if German nationality
was sufficient ground for the dismemberment of Denmark.
Polish nationality might be considered • pound equally
strong for the thsesemb.srmsse and that her
West coarse was to set with good faith and hoarier, standing
by her treaty eingageroents, by which she would men, the
approval of all Europe, whereas, with the other she
would earn universal oondemoation. (Hew. hear.) He (
Chelmsford) approved mainly of these seetiments, but what
he oomplaio.d of waa that the noble sari went from on,
thing to soother. The aoble gait is an ongussied moussee.
bad stated to the Premien arabameder that Denmark might
be aided by Great Britain, but when an explanation was
demanded the noble earl got oat of the difficulty by
stating that be could not tell what the action of the govern.
[Wei might be, the questa:a not Norio( beested
upon in the eabinet. Swely, the Foreign Minister should
set allow himself, in his eeminnakeitioes with the repro.
sentative of a foreign power, to be betrayed into an expres-
sion of opinion of so forcible a character without consultes
risen with his colleagues. The noble earl went on to say,
however, that judging from the unarm character of the
feeling in parliament and the ociantry such seriatim:tom might
be neewryq. So that the noble earl and the government
y waiting for the tittersnos of parliament and
ware
nation before they made up their minds what their
policy should lie—(hoir, hear)—end bean arose that In.
suiting and menacing language,followed by weak
sod noillatingeonduct, doh indeed foreign ministers le
roped the represistatioss of her Maine?, go.
vernment with Indifference and coatempt. (Hear, hear.)
He would not trouble their lordships with any otaerno
lions with regard to the overtures made to France sad
Raids to join is giving material aid to Denmark. but he
wished to say a few words with respect to the conterenee.
He behoved that the government were perfectly right is
endeavouring to picture an ageonibling of the great pewees
for the purpose of settling these very serious difficulties ;
and he regretted as much as any one could that the con-
temn should ban proved • failure. (Hear, hear.) But
the experieoes of the noble earl should have told him that
a conference without • fixed basis on which to proosed was
most likely to fail. (Hear, bear.) Denmark desired that the
basis should be the en¢ moots of 1831-2, and this was
proposed to Austria Stan addition that they
should not be confined merely to engagements Her
Mai eat 'a government proposed that the basis of the acute-
I MOO should be simply coefined to the mans of restoring
to the north of Europe the blessinp of peace. What could
the noble lord expect from such a vague and indefinite bull
That was the very ground lappet which the noble lord had
refund the coaference with the French Emperor, for he
said, " Her Majesty's governmseri would feel more &ppm
head= than orialidonee from • meeting of soverenres and
ministers without fixed objects, ranging over the map of
Europe, and exciting hopes and aspirations which they
may find themsdres unable to just." (Cheers.)
The noble earl Mod said that be would not mate. weer if the
safety of Denmark could be mewed "otherwise," and this
was mid when Holstein was occupied, when Shawls VIII
overrun as a material guarantee, and when Jutland was
Woo possession of as • streptical necessity. Surely in such
• conjuncture such an expression was only • cruel mockery
of Denmark. (Hear, base ) The next speech was that of
the noble viscount in the other house, which he (Lord
Chelmsford) thought was the climax of the government
policy. The noble viscount said, "If Copenhagen was
bombarded. the popnlatioa massacred, and the King •
primmer, then it might he necessary for England to
resmaider her position," Surely nothing was wanting to
eampleee the humilialies of this country bat the utterance
of snob a spenn. (Hear, hear.) la rooclusiou the noble
and leaned lord contended that he bad fully justified the
ashore of his noble friend.

Lord WODEHOUSE admitted that if the cam of the op-
position were proved, it would be neoearry not only to
affirm the resolution, but immediately to declare war to re-
deem the bosom of the oouutry. He should endeavour to
show however that so promisee of material assiumee
bed bees made to Denmark, and that the *dew