The Express.
London, England, 1855-06-06 00:00:00

is the ruin generation •4l
ton, well u the intonation fever—and who could tell that we become more sad more dependent upon it, anti et ;
should not have the *gm too. living ea our withers did end she amain ezist without it. Therefore, sph,tb;° to
spots the mhos of a -vast graveyard. Would it not be adopt the principle of hesitation, or my cow „peal r yol
I
wise, therefor*, for gentlemen rather to subdue the spkits am of opinion that the maintenance of the iod pe "LI
of the people,—not that he would have their courage sub. of Turkey will Weems day by day more difficult, a
deed in a righteous canse.—and to let them know fairly Clarendon warned the Turkish government, eht,—":n
what was before them ? What he blamed the government wished to rush into a war against the advice of Irra.-- Z.'
for was this—that they had dealt falsely and treacherously England, that her independence will become ira ---""
with the people. There would be a beery reckoning for and her ruin Inevitable. (Hoar, hear.) I belie,irlible
them in this matter. The noble lord the member for Tiver- great test of statesmanship
ton, in one of his declamatory heritage's, said, .. The people to make adequate provision for the fall of the Tarkithiese--
of this country is my merle force." What was the noble Oill re in Etsrope—to Mite care that Constantinople do.. -- - • - * a f

ea the sae ids into the bane of Russia sad oe: not
other into the bends of the Western Powers.' That% h.:
Hove, will be the test of future statesmanship, and
licy cannot be sustained un the E gaieht...,2,l"
upholds it be backed by less
an adequate lish
force by
by land, and, above aU, by an adatom eta led
(Cheers.) Now, sir, It is unnecessary for
se
tunable the house with any further o •ts
I have endeavoured to express my own opinion d'
Moly and openly, and in doing so i have endeavoit*PlN44..l
ava saying a word which could give offence to a 4
member in this home. (Hear, hear.) In cocci - ..
1
have only to thank the house for the attention with
my observations have been heard. (Cheers.)
Lord J. RUSSELL admitted that great emits had bete
attained, and many reductions in the preteasesas ot
Ruda conceded since the war began, but nothing Was
yet
40.111 or proposed which offered a permanent security
t Turkey against future aggressions. This the Allies watt
bound to obtain, while Russia, it seemed, would not great
the requisite terms, except perhaps under the prewan of
severer reverses than she had as yet sustained. " I believe"
said his lordship, " that it is not at all a question of the bonus
of Rorie. I believe, on the contrary, that Riai4
conceives that she has no reason u the war 'etude to is
flounce those aggreesive projects which she so sedulouily
entertains, which she inherits, which she lays by fora final,
but which Catherine entertained, which the Emperor Ni.
choirs at the latter end of his reign entertained, and which
the present Emperor has almost avowed, oa his testae ta
the throne, that be means to cherish. (Hear, hear.) Bath
I believe to be the question, and not one of offended dig.
silty. Then we come to the very serious question, apes
which I must decline to give that very definite anew
which some hon. gentlemen asked,
pnrsomposi l
namely,
do
yti
are forced to continue the war, if you find ea
reallyonly tesirimves
securitywhie yotou
Tesiessiksyr,eall y
what
is
705,
oaM
b.
ject ? My answer must be general, that the object is EA
as it has been, the security of Turkey against Russia, au
therefore the security fee the peace of Europe. I tali"
believe that if Russia was allowed uncontrolled ta
work her way towards the capital of the Turkish empire,
making small progress perhaps in 1855, greater in 10 yea,'
hence, and more still in 20, I cannot, I repeat, but believe
that if such were to take place, the independence of sa.
rope would be insecure. Every one has seen tbat which
had lately appeared in the public journal, with reference
to an interview between the Emperors Napoleon and Ake.
ander, in which the farmer, placing his band ayes
Constantinople, said, "Constantinople, no—it k tha
metropolis of the world." (Cheers.) Those hon. gentling*
may have no fear of Russia, but I remember a gnat
authority, the Duke of Wellington, saying, that if in ad.
dition to the force of Russia in the Baltic, she bad, by
means of Constantinople, command of the hiediterrausa,
she would be too ste.ng for the rest of the world. (Rea:
hear.) That, I believe, is not a recondite opinion of nate;
men, it is the result of the generally pervading feeling at
this country. (Cheers.) That feeling is, that we ought au
to allow Russia, by simulated peace or open war to obto
the conquest of Constantinople. It may be said that the
terms which we proposed were not effectual for the amis.
meet of the proposed object, but if that were said, we
should be blamed, not tor our ambition, for es
asked nothing of Russia, and not for our 'ague,
bat for our own moderation in not 'skin; ;stronger WNW
(Hear, hear.) There is no doubt that other planate
besides those of the limitation of the fleet might hue heat
demanded. But it has been said with reference to the third
point, when we proposed that the preponderance of Rests
in the Black Sea should cease, that the particular mode el
carrying oat the object involved in this pciat must depts.
on the events of the war, and could not be aetermined until
those events were proved. We were, however, forced by
circumstances. I have stated that when we were to nego.
tiate we had to specify the security which we wished to
have. We must consider according to the clean
t of the war what is the security we ought in haute
• to ask. It has been said, to my surprise, that I bus
spoken as if I wished to make this a war of nationalitiee.
, I
I do not retract any speech which I have made, but I MTV
an said a word with such an object. I mentioned P,'

lord doing new, to' apply any reserve force is support of
his expedition ? (Cheers.) The noble lord the member
for the City of London said, " We will have 180,000 or
200,000 men, Enflames, in our army, and foreign levies to
aid them." But now where were they ? There had been the
same child's play all through, and until the last moment.
What he (Mr. Cobden) asked was, that government should
deal more candidly with the public. He had noticed, in the
history of great and stirring times, that if ever the mass of
the people became cruel and revengeful, and rushed into
unreasoning violence against the government, and against
its natural leaders, it was invariably because it believed that
it had been betrayed by them. There was nothing by which
the loss of public favour and great public calamity might
be so easily risked as by attempting to conceal from the
people the full amount of the difficulties and dan- ,
gen which impended over them. It was in this
belle 4 and because he (Mr. Cobden) would not be in
the slightest degree responsible for what might happen in
the matter, that he (Mr. Cobden) wished to speak on the
present occasion. He warned hon. gentlemen that there,
was no institution in this land which would be safe from the
reaction that might ensue from the too sanguine confidence
of the public in this undertaking. He had seen the spirit
east of doors taking strange and sadden freaks of malice and
revenge under the sense of bitter mortification. Those who
had been the first to clamour for the war now met together
after the disasters of the first campaign, not to blame them-
selves for the share they had in promoting it, but
to denounce the highest persons in the land as respon-
sible for all that had occurred. And when he witnessed
the tone which was assumed, in spite, as he believed, of su•
perior knowledge, by many who, in high places, had pandered
to the passions of the people to gain a momentary triumph
at the risk of future disaster, he must say that some of
those persona had deserved the retribution they sustained.
He was much struck by the language used in a meeting at
Derby, which was heralded by the London press as the be-
ginning of an agitation that was to extend all over the land—
s, meeting which the hon. member for Derby attended. lie
would read what was said there, for it might be a
good and wholesome lesson. A gentleman who
moved a resolution the Rev. Mr. Griffiths snd
who had been one of the strongest advocates for the
war at Derby, said—" If we are to be overtaxed
for unjust and unequ .1 laws, jut because a few coronetted
heads chose to have it so, then the time is come when the
working men of Great Britain must look the aristocracy in
the face, and demand the why and the wherefore, and not
be content with a shillyshally answer." At that sentence
there was great cheering. ' One word more. There will
be more money wanted ere long. The young prince will
want a wife, and then a marriage settlement. I say, let
him go and get it from his father and mother, who have
hto keep them all." The seconder of the resolution,
Mr. Parkinson, said—" It was the duty of every man to
endeavour to destroy the system under which they
bad been so mis ruled." Now he (Mr. Cobden)
was one who had been considered to have dealt
not always very gently with the aristocracy of this country,
but he should say to that rev. gentleman, from what he
had observed of his proceedings, that whatever disasters
might happen in this country, there was no member of the
aristocracy whom he should consider so responsible for the
miseries and disasters which might happen u that indivi-
dual. (Cheers.) So far as he (Mr. Cobden) was concerned
be would not truckle to the popular spirit of the moment by
joining in any cry which should divert the minds of the
people from what he thought should be their first consider-
'lion, and that was how far they themselves were respon•
sib's for the disaster. which had occurred, and how neces-
sary it was for them to begin with reforming them-
selves at home before they reformed others. (Cheers.)
But the first thing which men did was to seek
for victims when they felt the consequences of their own
errors. It should be a warning to those who were possessed
of influence not to stimulate such passions as had been pre-
vailing through the country, unless it were clear that some
adequate occasion existed, and that some sufficient object
would be attained by war. If we had the Russians be-
sieging Portsmouth, he (Mr. Cobden) would not stay to
talk to the House of Commons about what should be done,
but he would go himself, and if he could do no work in the

go IDr.
he would work in the hospital. (Chee

If such

field,
emergency existed, be would net ask statism&
and parliament to allay the excitement of the peo•
ple then, but would encourage their utmost exertions.
But inch was not the case. We bad undertaken to invade
a distant and powerful empire. The people of this country
anti those who guided them had not properly estimated the
magnitude, the difficulty, and the danger of such an enter-
prise. It was therefore he had made this long and he
feared this tedious appeal to the house noon the subject.
Lord HARRY VANE, Sir S. NORTHCOTE, and Mr. VAN-
'imam spoke in favour of a pacific policy. Mr. COLLIER,
Major REED. Mr. F. Sctsx.iv, ;Mr. CROSSLEY, and Mr. J.H.
rittlximoisa urged the vigorous prosecution of the war.
Sir .1. GRAHAM, adverting to personal topics, declared
that while in office he had administered his departments with
all practicable energy, and then proceeded to justify his own
conduct in having concurred in the declaration of war with
the pacific sentiments be had more recently expressed.
" I am myself (he said) a party to the limitation of
Russian preponderance in the Black Sea pro-
posed to Russia ; but having been a party, I am bound
to say that it was never looked upon as an ultimatum.
(Rear, hear.) Neither was it submitted to the conference
in that form, for it would be monstrous to begin a con-
ference with an ultimatum, and not having been
an ultimatum, we now come to the consideration
whether, this being the only ground of difference, it
was prudent to break off the discussion. The result of all
the dilatations which have taken plaoe in this house con-
vinces me th►t it was not. (Hear, hear.) It would be im-
possible to overlook the observations of my hon. friend the
member for the West Riding, for truly steam has made an
immense difference in these matters. If you give Russia
of bar four ships, with this aid she •

objc. ..'oland, it it
true, in my description of the power of Russia. It wu u.
emery to do so to show how difficult it was to obtain by
negotiation sufficient terms of security. Is merely stated
facts with regard to Poland ; I pointed out the 111e11/11 said
to conciliate the peasantry, and the methods devised ts
take away young men from their country. These wen
facts; and am I to be forbidden in Otis house to state face
bearing upen a subject under debate ? (Hear.) It may bi
said that an inference was to be drawn frcm what I said.
If any inference was to be drawn it was that the cum of
Poland was one which was hopeless, and therefore that it
would be madness in England and France to take up the
cause of that country. But be that as it may, Inmate of
the opinion that it will be necessary to obtain some material
guarantees. (Hear.) .This we have to consider. So far u
these four points provide a security for Europe I think we
should make them our objects. It is an advantage that
Russia should be compelled not to renew again those treaties
with Turkey which bound Turkey in a mere from which
it wishes to be free. It is also of importance that till
navigation of the Danube should be open. It is ale
of importance that the Sultan should give such priviieges
his Christian subjects that they may be attached to his go-
vernment, and ready to defend the Turkish empire against
its enemies. A right hen. friend of mine has said that at war
the duty of English statesmen to provide for the fall of
Turkey. Now It has been the view of English and foniga
statesmen, and it is certainly the view of the statesmen who
now preside over the councils of the Austrian empire, that
there is no reason why the independence of Turkey :boa
not be maintained. Those were the wards which I heard
from Prince Metternich and from Count Buol. Austria
statesmen naturally take great interest in the arks of
Turkey, and hence their • ' on this subject are ee
titled to considerable - - I think that

Opinions
cone.-- weight. I must say that .
Austria has in these negotiations been sincere in endeavor.
ing to discover means for security against the sortssirs
ambition of Russia. Everything which I saw at Virtu
induced me to believe that, averse as Austria was to war,
and anxious as she was for peace (perhaps unreasonably so),
she was equally anxious to obtain with ourselves the object'
which we have in view. I feel myself that the politica d
Austria, having many enemies in Germany, is one which is
very critical; and much as I wish that the present war rosy
be brought to a speedy conclusion; much u I dein
that Austria should take part with the allies, I should
most sincerely deplore the happening of any event what
should tend to weaken her power, for I believe the not.
once of the Austrian empire to be necessary to the braes
of power. The object, therefore, in continuing the um
would be always to have the end in view. The means te
that end would of course vary with the war, and bend it
would be idle, ridiculous, and presumptuous to point or
now what ought to be the terms of peace. But this I think
has been secured even by the present negotiation, that Iron
this time forward Turkey will be considered as one of the
powers of Europe, forming part of the system of the balms
of power; that her internal legislation will be left to her, and
that her independence and ictegrity will be recognised. I Is
forced to admit that I do not think we are likely to rake
pew until we have obtained the term which will be Wets
Turkey. It should be remembered that we are &skirt for
no object of our own, that when this peace shall be ear
eluded we shall have obtained not one acre of territory—it
is for Turkey and for the general system of Europe that we
are working. I will now say a few words with respect Is
this particular state of this question. We seem to too
begun the debate upon a motion of the right hon. member
for Bucks (Mr. Disraeli), and because Whitsuntide holiday'
were coming on, and the conferences were net closed, 0
have arrived at a point when the Whitman'
holidays are over, and the conferences are closed, and hew
these various motions and the amendments tending to dtiro
the present state of affairs. (Hear, hear.)l own it appeante
me that it would be far more regular if when the mean
is prepared to bring down the final acts of the conform'
and those propositions of Austria which my right hon. fend
is so anxious to see, as well as the decrees made by the PIP
nipotentiaries, we should then move an address to td
crown upon the subject of the future prosecution of the est
(Hear, hear.) Those honourable members who may
entertain such an opinion upon the subject would hoe Is
opportunity of moving an amendment which, if carried.
would force the government into an immediate renal
of negotiations. I have already spoken to my cob!.
friend (Lord Palmerston) upon the subject, and I know that
he is of opinion that such a course would be far more rep
jar, and in accordance with the ordinary mode of proos:
due in this house than the discussion of the various &moo'
aunts. (Hear.) Of course, if the house chooses toyo
with the debate, we cannot prevent it ; but the mar,
which I have suggested would be more regular, aid cull
lead the holm to decide aye or no, are we to give any Oa
what support to her Majesty in the prosecution of the est
Mr. ROEBUCK then moved the adjournment of the dr
bate to Thursday. (Cries of " Divide," end " Adjourn'?
Lord PALMERSTON—I hope that my hon. WO",
ender the altered circumstances in which we stand, rag
that we have been informed that the Conferences torn
cloud and that negotiations are at an end, will• potpersist in his motion. We are at present dimming
series of amendments in which every hoe. gentleman oil
feel considerable difficulty in determining how ha ohm&
vote. (Hear.) The question which I think it is MO;
should be disuse/fedi', how has the government candid"'
the negotiations, and whether or not the house, under the
circumstances in which the country is plaited, is waked"
give to her Majesty its support in the prosecution of to
war. The course which I should humbly propose would be
to agree to an adjournment for some few days. We shall,,
in the Nurse of a day or two, receive the protocol of the
conference which took place yesterday. We shall then .
in a position to advise her Majesty to submit to podiums;
the papers which would show the state of the negotiations"
the latest moment, and then the house will be in a puid°l
to determine upon the mine which it might judge St to
follow.
Mr. DISRAELI said that the suggestion of the nob"
lord appeared most unsatisfactory. (Hear.) More :he
three weeks ago ha had suggested to the noble lord Os,
he ought to give the hoes, an opportunity of express 4
its opinion upon the state of the negotiations. At first to
*obi, lad took ao Ratio of the subject, bathe had isbfr