The Express.
London, England, 1855-03-10 00:00:00

MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS,

Mseetniers from Use Commons brought up the Undu
emu, of Mats Bill, which WU /tad Arm time.

TICKETS OF LEAVE.

Lord ST. LEONABDB, who spobe;ta a my low tone of
voice, proceeded to ash attention ea the merlins if the
ticket of leave gum dace its estalaisimut is this mistry-
The noble aad hasasi lord was massaged to assegleis Ike
aa priunars assluiest to moves pm' traespaglegies got
tickets *cleave at the sad et tam% ihe Iss at Ike sui of
four yea* es essaidas el psi belbsikar &wag es ilur
terval, • 11laweyy WSWemtG. of selksolislat ambled As
worst ehaenelwe M again get loom spas moiety. The err
tem worbed is the first laslisse, by attashing un-
certainty is die pssialmasent la dieted by the judge, and thin
making aay sestmes /sr a amber of yearstransportation
little more ibis a skim. The Ism knowing it would
shorten their time, midst ted themeless well is prism,
but the gassuat they were enlarged relapsed into that
former bed habits. Oite cause of this was that they had
generally a seasiderable sum to receive on leaving prima,
eomet:mep 12L or W., and bong reloaded from the long
reenlist, they pro et oacw to spend it is all lone of
dissipation. Tb. sob!' and learned lord alit read a letter
from filr.Berieent Adams, stating that onirniath of the whole
criminal committals in the kiegdom took place at the
Middleeea flessicas, and that the result of kis experieses
was that the re-committals had increased 400 dem
the establishment of the ticket of leave 'Man. Tke
opinion of this learned judge waa that the ticket of
lease system led to the commission of crime.
Ile certainly thought that it wu the duty of the govern-
ment to inatitam some system of supervision, so that the le-
gislature really might uaderstand the actual rnalt of the

present systeni.
Hirt GRANVILLE could assure the noble end learned
lord that he quite concurred with biro in regretting ;the nes-
comity for the system of punishment then under considera-
tion. But their lordships should bear in mind that the
whole matter was really • choice of evils. When the ea-
sent
sent stem was adopted it was on account of the fee
which eaisted in the colonies against the former meth ,
sad the very complaints which had boon made to the pre-
sent mode of procedure in this country showed that the
colonies were not without reason in objeetisg to being bar
dewed with oar criminals. He regretted to say, that it was
act in his power to bold out to the noble lord any
hope that. the government were prepared to propose
any new system. At the same time, be did sot
attempt to say that the present mode of operation was
faultless ; on the oostrary, be was ready to admit many of
the defects at which the noble lord heated. He ventured to
request their lordships to read the report which had ap-
peared upon this subject, as he 'bought it would plus the
matter fairly before them. Although he could not venture
to oppere his opinion upon such • esbjcct to that of the noble
and learned lord, be could tot but say that he very much
doubted whether the course of punishment now adopted
was in itself such as to operate to a slight extent only upon
criminals. He (Lord Granville) could only say that sines
the present system had been adopted, only one case of mis-
eoaduct had bees reported at the Home-office, and that
case, when examined into, tuned oat to be without founda-
tion. He (Lord Granville) was quite sure that the
aoile lord had brought ;this matter forward with no
fiche', bat he could not understand how upon a part =arty
we, for to one only bad the noble lord referred, he could
found an argument against a system. The noble lord sug-
gested two methads for improvise the present system—ths
gist wee that some system of surveillance should be adopted;
and .in the next place, that government should take active
means for obtaining information as to the doings of convicted
prisoners who were at large upon tickets of leave. With
respect to these matters, their lordships would see at once
that a great difficulty existed. It would not do to follow
a an about, so as to prevent his obtaining any kind of
employment. (Hear, bear.) But the government wen
not without hope of doieg something in the mat-
ter and he (Lord Granville) was happy to in-
form the noble lord (St. Leonardo) that Sir George Grey
had had this subject under his attention for the last few
weeks, and had boon making active inquiries with a view to
tome practical step. When hie right hon. friend (Sir G.
Grey) had finished those inquiries, he (Lord Granville) had
no doubt but that the information obtained would be quite
at the service of the boon..

Earl GREY thought that this was a subject of the
gravest importance, and was of opinion that their lordi
were now beginning to feel the difficulties &riot which
had warred them long since. He was persuaded that thus
matters of which c. mplaint was now made ware but tag
commencement of a much worse state of thiase.
(Hear.) He had always regarded the act which abolished
transportatioa re • grave misfortune. None could have a
doubt upon the efficacy of that system, or could hesitate to
declare that it had acted, on the whote, far better than any
other. The noblo earl (Granville) made a great mistake
when he said that the difficulties which we experienced
proved that the colonists bad a cause of complaint. The
position of this country and of the colonies was essentially
different. Here, when a convict was let out upon a ticket
of leave, he was east upon society who knew of his crime,
and I. was turned back into the world in the chase neigh-
bourhood of Lis former associates in crime. But in the
colonies the ease was fazdifferew. The convict was in a thinly
populated country, far from the place where his former
offence bed been committed. (Hear, hear.) Aud if en en-
larged view were taken of the matter it would be found that
such a CGOTIO was conducive t) the interests of the colonies
themselves. He firmly believed that harm had been done
to the colonies by the system which had been adopted, and
that a very grave respoufib.lity rested upon those in ithia
Country who had worked upon the feelings of the colonists,
in order to induce them to mires the system of transporta-
tion. UMW not hesitate to say 'het the feeling upon the matter
which Cod prevailed in the colonies was entirely as artificial
one,' and that it bad wholly been promoted by permits
in this caustry. (Hear, hear.) Everyone knew that fifteen
years So" the colossi's were excited in favour of traasporta-
tion. (11. ar, bier.) It was net likely that, of their own
accord, they would so suddenly alter their opinions. The
plea put forward was, that we had abolished transporta-
tion on accf,unt of the demands of the colonies. He bad no
hesitation in saying that if this country was to go upon the
inciple that when anything was asked by our colonies, or unjust, reasonable or unreasonable, it was to be
granted, the sooner we parted with our colonies altogether
—the sooner we got rid of the responsibility of protecting
shoes whom we could no longer govern—the better it would
be for ourselves. But even assuming the necessity
for abolishing the system of transportation, still a heavy
responsibility rested upon the government which introduced
and the legislature which sanctioned the measure at present
In force. Although the system of transporting was abo-
lished, there was no necessity for altering the period of the
duration of the punishment. But, nevertheless, this had
been done, and for *even years' transportation only form
years' penal servitude was substituted, and for heavier pm-
niehment a somewhat aunties scale prevailed. Oa aids it
bad been found neemsary to make the length eif pumbb-
meat vary with the conduct of the prisoner. That
bad been found a most excellent plan for keeping up ea
effectual state of diseiplias. But through a clause in the
set now in force, the discretion in regard to this matter wee
fettered, so as to reader it far less useful than it might hams
been. He would suggest as a plan for making the set meek
to some smut better, that some oysters telitht be adeytad,
requiring men having tickets of leave to report themedeee'
at stated periods to salads appointed for the wren
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that as sea felt a
rester regret then he did himself at this necessity flew
abolishing the system of transportation. He believed
that transportation answered the ends of punishment better
than any system which had ever prevailed, embracing, as it
did, the maximum of terror with the minimum of suffering.
tofortanately, however, in !he °plain of this house and
of suete•eive governments that system could not longer be
continued, sad it was necessary not to abolish, for traaspor-
tatios to the exteet af 1,000 yearly would still go on, but
to modify it. The noble earl (Grey) complained that the
feeling of the mumble was not one arising spostaaeously,
but that it was mated by malcontents at home. That
might possibly be so; bat from whatever_ came it
came, it was as all heads admitted to exist.

TEL. en. felt to be tics ea., by the goviirame--n—t—of
of Derby, and of the Earl of Aberdeen. The noble earl
who had spokes last (Lord Grey) said that if every rimiest,
ressotabe or not, which was nude by the solonies was to he
acceded to, this country bad better be rid of these. That
might he very true. But in the matter under eousidaration,
the colnnista bad at least so much reams on their side, that''
thee carried public sympathy with them—(beer,, bear)-1
a-ri their demand was one which it would have ban dif-1
Bruit, carhops dangerous, to refuse. It had, than
havo,'
become necessary that something should be dens--the
qauttte arose u to what ? The act wish& bed
that night bees remarked upon was mot the me
it wasthe only mabstitute for the nee= which could me
linger be tolerated. He had had the beeees to lewdest
that measure; he had not takes—bedbleet Ibse Übe,
any rm.it for the wisdom of it; it we aleleduela le
simple matter of necessity, and it the Mere bed see pawed
it they must have puled some cther pretty nearly precisely
similar to it. (Hear, hear.) The noble earl complained of
the shortness of the terms of punishment which had been
introduced. They had beon taken precisely from the
practice which • had previmuly prevailed in the cases of
eonvic I who were eci.ti rut! to transportation, but
who were seat to pu i c worlu is this canntry in
Stu of actual deportation. (Hear, hear.) The question'
which his noble and ]tarred friend (Lord Bt. Leonard')
mensal inclined to propose to the house was as to the man-
ner in which the late act bad been worked by government,
and the noble lord wine I is doubt whether its effects Wore
beeetictel. Now, as the aet was so very yeses% time woe
but, no far as Gould be
report, it seemed that Bo
good results. The laves,
. Grey would doubtless WOW
doubt usable the igoverninlatid
regard to the plan propelled
. reluiriag tieket•of.leave mss
certain times, that was a plan to
att .thed Under it a man would
to leave his work, perhaps to
town, is order to report him-
would be an interruption to
et ; and is the leas, it would,
• of the stigma upon the eke-
man. Ia both et Wes ways it
abet Mon Um, ead would, it

chollileedytest rip.
P;
forom judgment
Jue "r
walking had been attended with
of his right boa friend Sir 0. 0
light uron ths subject, and no dot
to intrudes, improvements With
by the Lehi, earl (Ow') of refit
to report themselves at is
which essay objectioos att .014
every as+ aad thew be obliged to
so some distaece to • county to
self. In the first plain, this wo
widish employers would object
serve se a parochial resewal of
meter of the ticket-id leave mw
wield work with • my bad offs