The Press.
London, England, 1857-06-13 00:00:00

THE CIVIL SERVICE.

On the order for going into committee of supply,
Lord Goncnicit called attention to the last report
of the Civil Service Commissioners, and to the
present system of admission to the civil service. He
referred to the principle and objects of his motion
last year, and to the speech made on that occasion
by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, which had
induced him to withdraw his motion, and expressed
his disappointment at finding from the last report
of the commissioners that the system of competition
had not been, as he had been led to expect it would
be, more extensively carried out :

At the period of the discussion of last year that principla
had been adopted partially in the Audit-office, in the office
of the Chief Secretary of Ireland, in the Education-office,
and in the Treasury and War Departments. Since that
time it had been extended to only two other departments.
It had been adopted partially at the Home office and
entirely in the Public Works•office. No attempt that he
could discover had yet been made to introduce it into the
departments of the Admiralty, the Exchequer, the Foreign
office, or the Post•office; and no effort whatever had been
made to alter the manner by which the patronage vested
in the right hon. gentleman the member for Wells ( Mr.
Hayter) was distributed. He (Viscount Goderich ) had
great confidence in the fulfilment of any promise made by
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and he therefore still
hoped that, in spite of the discouraging blue-book which
the Civil Service Commissioners had this year laid before
Parliament, the system of competiti►e examination would
be introduced into the Government offices.

All he wished, he said, was that the system should
go on, not stand still, far less recede; and he asked
the Chancellor of the Exchequer what were the
intentions of the Government in this matter?
Mr. BASS and Mr. MALINs wished to know who
possessed the power to nominate or recommend
such persons as were ultimately selected for examina-
tion, with a view to admission into the Civil Service?

The CH.\NCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained
that the order in council had made no alteration in
the right of nomination to civil appointments, which
belonged to the Crown and was exercised by the
Crown or by the heads of departments, and he pro-
comled to observe that the Government were of
opinion that it was not desirable that the subordinate
offices in the administrative departments should be
thrown open to public competition, but that all per.
sons entering these departments of the civil service
should be subjected to an examination with a view of
testing their fitness for office. The real question
was, what was the number of offices in which that
system was adopted ?
As far as 1 know, it is adopted in the Treasury, in the
War Department, in the Home Department, and in the
Colonial Department. It is also adopted in the Board of
Trade. (Some cries of " No.") I may be mistaken. I
understand now that it is not adopted in the Board of
Trade. It is adopted in the Beard of Works, and in three
out of the four offices of Secretary of Sate. I believe also
that on some occasions it is adopted by the Admiralty.
This statement shows that the heads of departments have
voluntarily adopted that principle in filling up vacancies.
My noble friend at the head of the Government, looking to
the short time during which the system had been in ex-
istence, had not felt himself justified by a mere act of the
executive Government to make it compulsory on the heads
of departments to follow this system, but it has been re-
commended by the practice of the Treasury and other
departments.

Mr. VAN4ITTART (Windsor) wished to know upon
What. ground persons were nominated to compete for
these positions.
The CHANCELLOR of the EICIIEQIJER :
Upon the ground of efficiency. (Laughter.)
OATHS BILL.

Sir F. MESMER gave notice of the alteration he
intended to propose in the committee upon the
Oaths Bill—namely, the addition of certain words
at the end of the oath, including " on the true faith
of a Christian."

The house then went into Committee of Supply
upon the remaining Army Estimates, which were
agreed t.) after much discussion, in the course of
which Sir John Ramsden made the following re-
marks upon the question of military education :
The whole question of military education had for a
long time engaged, and did still engage, the most serious
attention of the Government, who were fully aware of its
great importance. The first recommendation of the com•
missioners upon the subject, and one on which they laid
the greatest stress of all, was that a board or council should
be appointed to consider the whole question. That step
hail already been taken by the Government. A council
had been appointed, and their duties were to draw up a
general scheme of military education, giving more par-
ticularly their opinion as to what should be the examination
to which gentlemen should be subjected when candidates
for their first commission in the army; also, as to what.
examination officers should have to pass through upon
promotion through the different steps up to the grade of
captain; and, also, as to what should be the qualifications
required of staff officers. That council had only recently
been appointed; those were the duties which its members
had to perform, and when they should have drawn up
their scheme of education that scheme would be submitted
to Parliament before being adopted.

The reports of the Committee of Supply and upon
the Sound Dues were brought up and agreed to.

574

The house then went into committee upon the
Joint•stock Companies Bill, the clauses of which were
agreed to without any discussion.

FRAUDULENT TRUSTEES, &C., BILL.

On the order for the second reading of this bill,
Mr. Sergeant KINOLAKE observed that the bill for
the first time dealt with ordinary breaches of trust
where there was an intent to defraud, and the ques-
tion was whether it would not be better to apply the
axe to the root, and wherever a trustee used the
money of his cestuique trust to his own use, for
which he was now responsible to a court of equity,
he should be made subject to the criminal law. He
objected to the restriction in the bill which required
the previous sanction of a judge or the Attorney•
General before a prosecution could be instituted.
In conclusion, he trusted that the Attorney-General
would introduce a clause into his bill to interdict the
source of fraud, and put an end to the facility with
which trustees might now use the money of the
cestuique trust, subject only to the interference of a
court of equity.

Mr. ROLT said he had many objections to the bill.
The effect of it would infallibly be, in his opinion, to
prevent gentlemen of character, station, and respon-
sibility from accepting a complicated trust, and to
throw trusts into the hands of persons of inferior
station, or into a legal tribunal, or some department
of the Government. He insisted upon the difficulty of
proving an intent to defraud, but he would draw the dis-
tinction between cases in which part'es were intrusted
with money and those in which they were intrusted
with goods which might be converted into money.
In the one case a trustee was guilty of criminal
insolvency, in the other of a crime resembling theft
or forgery, and he should be punished accordingly.
The hon. member then suggested various cases
of breach of trust which, though innocent in
their inception, might possibly, even probably, fall
within the category of crime, and he asked what
sensible man would aub;ect himself to such a risk?
For instance, he would suppose the case in which it
was the duty of the trustee to receive money, and,
when it amounted to a certain sum, to invest it in a
particular way. At the outset, talk and preach as
they might to the contrary, the most innocent
person would place the money which he so received
in small amounts to his own account at his own
banker; and there would be nothing criminal in that
—it might be a breach of trust, an error, and if the
banker failed he would be responsible, but there
would be no criminality. The next step easily fol-
lowed. The trustee wanted to draw upon his banker
—he knew that if this money were not there his
banker would accommodate him, but as it was there
he drew upon that. It might be that that was not a
criminal offence, but let them follow it a step further.
The trustee took the money, intending to replace it
in a few days from securities which lie had in his
possession ; the securities might fall in value, the
man might fail, and he would become criminally
insolvent. Now, how did that case differ from that
of a man who, engaged in commerce, entered upon
some speculation in which he knew that if he won
the gain would be his own, and that if he lost the
loss would be another's ? He would be criminally
insolvent. So, if a man incurred debts which he had
no reasonable prospect of paying, he was criminally
insolvent. Let that class of offence, then, be properly
defined, and he contended that the crime with which
the bill was intended to deal would come within the
category of criminal insolvency. It was vain for the
house to endeavour to draw distinctions between
offences which really belonged to the same class of
crime ; they could not weigh the niceties of intent
and of moral effect; the distinction was so fine that
they could not do it ; and if upon the occasion of
any panic being created, or of some crime being com-
mitted of more than usual enormity, they were called
upon to pass some extraordinary measure of legisla-
tion to meet it, he submitted that that was not, to
say the least of it, a scientific mode of dealing with
the amendment of the law. Let them clearly ascer-
tain and define to what class of crime offences
belonged ; let them fix plainly the punishment for
each class of crime ; let their views be general and
universal, not exceptional; and they might hope to
pass a law which would repress crime, and which
would not defeat its own objects by undue stringency
and severity.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL invited Mr. Kinglake to
put his project for interdicting the source of crime
In the form of a palpable enactment. He defended
the clause requiring a previous sanction of a prose-
cution, observing that he had imagined it would
render the bill more acceptable, and it would cer-
tainly obviate some of Mr. Roles objections. He
was aware, he observed, of the difficulty of under-
taking such a measure, but be advised members not
to be frightened by cries of " a lion in the path."
He trusted that in the committee the bill would be
rendered worthy of the Legislature of the country,
and remove an opprobrium upon its jurisprudence.
The bill was read a second time, as well as the
General Board of Health Bill.

11■11hMmsabk 'ma.

THE PRESS.

RAVINGS •BANES BILL.
On the order for the second reading,:of the Savings-
banks (No. 2) Bill,
Mr. TURNER, approving the principle involved in
the bill, expressed a hope that well-managed banks
might be exempted from the interterence of Govern-
ment officials.
Mr. GROGAN made a similar suggestion.
Mr. AYRTON opposed the bill. He complained of
the management of the funds of savings-banks by
the Commissioners of the National Debt, stating that
upon the capital account alone, between 1843 and
1855, a deficiency of 1,000,0001. had been created, a
result which, in his opinion, raised the question
whether they were fit to be intrusted with this office.
It was also a question whether these funds were not
intended to be kept separate, instead of being em-
ployed in jobbing in the funds.
Mr. HENLEY desired to know what the power of
the Government was to be under the bill, and what
were to be the regulations they were going to make
for an effectual audit ? These regulations, and the
mode of working it, ought to appear upon the face
of the bill. _ _

Colonel SYKES said he should at a future stage
move that the bill be referred to a select committee.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the
object he had exclusively in view in proposing this
bill to the house was the interest of the depositors
in savings•b>>nks. It had been well known fur many
years that the present state of the law on this subject
was not satisfactory ; that the responsibility of mana-
gers and trustees for the deposits that once existed had
ceased; that no other guarantee had been substi-
tuted for it, and that loss had in many cases accrued
to depositors. In that state of things he felt it his
duty to propose this measure to the house :
Unquestionably he had no thought of interfering with
the legitimate influence of managers and trustees, or of
diminishing those useful labours which they had for so
many years exercised in their respective establishments;
but, for the purpose of guarding, not the interests of the
Government, but the interests of the Exchequer, he had
felt it his duty to propose a certa►n control over the officers
of these establishments. The power thus taken was em•
bodied in the 3rd and 4th sections of the bill now before
the house, and it had undergone revision with the view of
reducing it to such an amount as should be sufficient for
the protection of the country.
He denied that the Government acquired the power
of appointing any of the local officers of the savings.
banks. The Government would only appoint the
auditors. With respect to the financial part of the
bill, he would only say that if the bill became law
be would be prepared on a future occasion to offer
the fullest information on the subject that could be
desired, and to submit the whole of the management
of the savings•banks money to the investigation of a
select committee.
The hill was then read a second time.
PUBLIC OFFICES.

Sir B. HALL obtained leave to introduce a bill to
make further provision for enabling the Commis.
sioners of her Majesty's Works to acquire a site for
additional offices for the public service, near White.
hall and her Majesty's Palace of Westminster. The
right hon. baronet subsequently brought in the bill,
which was read a first time.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER brought in
the Sound Dues Bill, which was read a first time.
The Joint-stock Companies Act Amendment Bill
was committed pro fornul.
The Alehouse Licensing Bill was read a second
time.

The Married Women's Reversionary Intere4t Bill
passed the same stage on a division by Sir E. PERRY,
and a majority against him of 151 to O.
The house adjourned at a quarter to one o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS-TVESDIT.
THE MUTINIES IN INDIA.

The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH rose to ask the Lord
President of the Council a question respecting the
accounts of the recent mutinies in the 19th and 34th
Native Infantry and the 3rd Light Cavalry. He
hoped that there was some strange exaggeration in
these accounts ; but, having looked carefully into
them, he had come to the conclusion that the source
of all the discontent was an apprehension on the
part of the natives that it was intended by the British
Government to interfere with the national religion.
That apprehension certainly existed. If there were
any intention on the part of any individual to inter-
fere with the religion of the natives, it was a circum-
stance calculated to excite grave apprehension in the
minds of the latter. He had read in the papers the
names of persons holding high civil offices as con-
nected with missionary operations, and to his great
astonishment had found that of Lord Canning in the
list of subscribers :
Now it should be remembered that a Governor General
of India could do nothing in his individual capacity ; and
even in England, as well as India, if a man were known to
wish earnestly for the success of any cause, he would be
thought likely to exert all his influence in furtherance of
it. He (Lord Ellenborough) considered that the fact of
Lord Canning's subscribing to societies the object of which

SATURDAY,

was the conversion of the natives was, if true, one of the
most dangerous things that could happen as regarded our
tenure of power in India. if a governor-general were per,
mittEd to indulge his own conscientious feelings by tamper.
ing with the religion of the natives, we should, before long,
have the most bloody revolution that had ever happened in
India, and the English would be expelled from that country,
without having made a dozen sincere converts to Chris..
tianity. The question he wished to ask was, whether
instruction.' had been sent, or would forthwith be sent, to
India, directing the several Governments to make known
at every station of the army that the Government would
for the future, as in times past, protect all her .Majesty's
subjects in the undisturbed exercise of their religion"
Earl GRANYILLE said her Majesty's Government
had received no information except what was con-
veyed by the telegraph, and it was not for him to say
how far the statement therein contained might be
exaggerated. He quite concurred with the noble
earl as to the danger and impolicy of any attempt at
proselytism in India, but he believed that, although
a sincerely religious man, nobody was more alive to
that fact than the Governor-General. So far from
Lord Canning having made any attempt at pro-
selytism, the first time he exercised his veto on a bill
which bad passed the Legislative Council, he did so
because it contained a provision which might inter-
fere with the religious processions of the natives.
With regard to the question of whether Governtnent
intended to issue any instructions to the different
Governments in India to protect the people in their
religious rites, the Governor-General, having con.
sidered the subject, had with excellent judgment
absta'ned from any notification which would assume
a change in our Indian policy which had never taken
place.
The Earl of MALMESBURY, as a friend of Lard
Canning, was rejoiced that the noble earl had had an
opportunity of contradicting these mischievous,
rumours. The noble earl had thrown doubt on the
telegraphic despatch, but the rumours had not come
by telegraph, and therefore were not open to that
objection. If Lord Canning had subscribed to any
of the missionary societies he had committed a grave
error, as the missionaries would no doubt make use
of his lordship's name in their intercourse with the
inhabitants. He could not, however, believe for a
moment that his noble friend could have mixed him-
self up with these matters.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said it was impossible
to overrate the importance of this subject, and it. was
of the utmost consequence that Lord Canntisg's
conduct should stand unimpeached until something
like specific facts could b 3 brought forward. All he
could say was, that from repeated letters he gleaned
that Lord Canning was as fully aware of the danger
of proselytism as the noble earl himself. He (Lord
Lansdowne) freely admitted that if there were any
just grounds for supposing that Lord Canning had
commuted so grave an error in judgment as to
countenance any scheme of proselytism in India
" he would no longer deserve to he continued in his
office as Governor• General of India."

The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said that if it was
admitted that for Lord Canning to have subscribed
to missionary societies was to unfit him for the
government of India, all danger that could by possi-
bility have arisen would at once be removed.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE dissented. lie had
no doubt that Lord Canning would be able to justify
any subscription that he might have entered into,
and that no subscription he had given would bear
the construction which had been placed upon it.(

The subject then dropped.
The Princess Royal's Annuity Bill WWI read •
second time, on the motion of Lord URANVILLE.

DIVORCE BILL.
The house then went into committee on thislbill,
which had been recommitted.

On clause 17,
The LORD CHANCELLOR proposed an amendment,
giving to husbands deserted by their wives the same
right of application to the wife as that granted to
wives deserted by their husbands.
After some discussion this amendment was agreed
to, as well as an amendment substituting the words
" judicial separation " tor " divorce a mensa et
those."

On the motion that the clause, as amended, stand
part of the bill, the committee was divided by Lord
Sr. LEONARDS upon the alteration, when there
were—

Content

Not Content
Majority

The clause was therefore agreed to.
The remaining clauses up to 22 were also agreed
to. On clause 22,
The LORD CHANCELLOR called the attention of
the committee to the punishment proposed to be
inflicted on persons guilty of adultery. By this
clause he proposed that in suits fn divorce by reason
of adultery both the adulterer and the adultress
should be made defendants, and that, if proved, the
court should have the power of fining the adulterer
up to the amount of 10,0001,

1..,