The Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1860-09-06 00:00:00

THE TOWN COUNCIL.

The monthly meetimr of this body was held yester-
day, at the Town-hall; T. D. Anderson, E-q., the mayor,
prLsiAing. There was but a limited attendance at the
commencement of the proceedings.
TUE. FINANCE. COMMITTEE.
The proceedings, resolutions, and reports of the
Finance Committee, comprising,—Recommendation that
the discretion given by, and contained in the Act of
7 William IV., and 1 Vic., cap. 19, as to the appoint-
ment of an assistant, or deputy-recorder, should, at the
• next sessions, be exercised by the recorder. Recom-
mendation to increase the salary of Mr. Edward Fitz-
gerald, clerk in the Town Clerk's office, from £156 to
£2'lo per annum, and the salary of John Andrews, from
£52 to £BO per annum. Recommendation to accept
the tender of Mr. William Tomkinson, for the erection
and completion of the new bridewell in Argyle-street
and Campbell-street, according to specifications, for the
sum of £2,223.
it appeared from the reading of the minutes, that the
committee have had under their consideration the dis-
position of the Sessions House, now that the Police
Courts have been removed, but that the subject had
been postponed.—With reference to setting back the pro-
posed buildings at the corner of Lime-street and Roe-
'reet, the surveyor had submitted plans, which were
-approved of.—A resolution also appeared on the books
V.th reference to the disposition of that part of the
Newsharn-house estate lying on the north side of West
Derby-road. It was that in consequence of the attempt
to' sell in one lot having failed, the committee were of
opinion that it should be divided into four lots, and that
the property should be submitted for public compe-
tition; that the surveyor should report on the restric-
tions which should be attached, having regard to the
protection of the interests of the Newsham-house
'estate on the south side of the road, and also upon the
laying out of a road to render the whole lots more
accessible.--It further appeared that £279 had been
paid for the expense of post mortem examinations and
analysis in re Winslow.
Mr. Joux STEWART, as chairman, moved seriatim
the confirmation of the proceeding. He began by moving
the adoption of the first formal recommendation as to
the appointment of a Deputy Recorder.
Alderman TURNER seconded the motion, which was
agreed to.
Mr. STEWART said the next recommendation as to the
increase of salaries would have to stand over pursuant
to standing orders. The next was a recommendation to
accept the tender of Mr. Tomkinson for the erection of
the new bridewell. He was a respectable tradesman,
his was the lowest tender, and he moved therefore that
it be accepted.
Alderman COOPER seconded the motion.
Mr. STEWART then proceeded to move the confirma-
tion •of the general proceedings of the committee. Those
gentlemen who had attended while the proceedings of
the committee were being read by the clerk, would have
*discovered that they embraced among ordinary business,
an arrangement for carrying out the improvement in
-Park--lane, at the end towards Canning-place. An
arrangement which, to do it properly, involved an ex-
change of property with Mrs. Needham, and he had
reason to believe that the terms would soon be adjusted.
'Mr. Stewart next called attention to the plan which
lay upon the table for setting back the proposed build-
inTs at 'the corner of Roe-street and Lime-street, by
arrangement with Aldernian Bennett, and showed that
• by the present plan whilst the great object of opening
out the view of St. George's Hall was fully effected, the
Cost would be less, in respect to the other parts of the
Curve than by that plan which had appeared to meet the
Concurrence of several members of the council. The
Council would have heard also in the minutes that the
'whole question of a very complicated and extensive
arrangement between the Dock Board, arising out of the
'Widening of Wapping, had now been concluded. The
clacks had retained two lots of land with which the Cor-
poration was formerly charged, and the money paid for it
lied been restored, with interest, to the corporate funds.
Another loug•pending question had been satisfactorily
settled—ithat was as to the repayment by the Treasury of
'PA legal costs ,of prosecutions. The Corporation had
succeeded at last in coming to terms with the Treasury,
-land he was happy to announce to the Council that they
lad received payment infutl, on a principle agreed upon
'with the corporate treasury, as far as their accounts
were delivered, which were up to December, 1859 ; but
although there was an accruing demand, they could not
inane out those accounts further while that troublesome
*rid annoying question stood over with the Clerk of the
!wee. But he was sure the Council would hear with
pleasure that the main iuestion, which had given rise to '
'deputations, 'discussions, and correspondence with Out end,
Riad been finally settled and the anoney.paid. Probably the
Council might expect to have heard something on the
.subject of the finances of the Corporation, which had been
,Ueussed so much at the last meeting, and which had
beau veferred to the Finance Committee. That committee
held a special meeting for the purpose of taking
the subject into consideration ; but it seemed the opinion
7 10fokgeirnutlemen there, and they were probably right, that
at the expression of opinion which had been
given by many gentlemen in Council upon that subject,
and considering that they were on the eve of the period
'when they should have to submit the usual summary of
accounts—that in e, very few weeks they should have 1
the whole statement a accounts before them—it was
thought better to postpone 4lie matter, especially as the
'Town-clerk was then absent, and therefore there was
/10 official report on the subject then to be submitted.
Ile was not aware of any other circumstance of import-
4thee in the general proceedings except those to which
he had called attention, and therefore concluded by
Iroving the confirmation of the proceedings.
Alderman COOPER seconded the motion.
Alderman WOODRUFF wished to call attention to a
latter, in reference to the widening of Park-lane. He
congratulated the Finance Committee on having effected
a great improvement in that neighilcurhood ; but called
:attention to the fact of the old parapet remaining pre-
cisely where it was, although the buildings had teen set
hack, so that the public had not received any advantage ,
from the charge, and accidents were daily taking place.
If the matter were remitted to Mr. Newlands, he could
remote fthe obstruction, and make the alteration required
411 twenty-four hours.
• The proceedings were then confirmed.
THE CLEHIC. pE THE PEACE'S FEES.
IAYOR said there ?Fes a letter from the Secretary
of state for the Home Department, suggesting £l,OOO
a-year as a salary for the Clerk of the Peace. Was it
the pleasure of the Council that it should be read.
1("
The TOWN-CLERK then.read as follows :

Whitehall, 16th August, 1860.

, Sllt4-1 am directed by Secretary Sir George Lewis to acknow-
edge the receipt of your letter of the 9th instant, and to
'return to you herewith the tables of fees (in duplicate) pro-
:Poeezl to be in future received by the Clerk of the Peace for
The borough of Liverpool, with Sir George Lewis's approval
of the same certified under his -hand.
With respect to the resolution of the Town Council trans;
tnitted in your letter of the Ist instant, recommending that the
'C'lerk of the Peace for the borough of Liverpool be paid by
ealary in lieu of fees, and that each salary should be DM per
annum, I am to acquaint you for the information of the Town
Council that Sir George Lewis is of opiniou pptt a salary of
•C 1,003 per annum to the Clerk of the Peace for the boroug4 of
Liverpool will be a fair amount for all fees of every descriptien,
the Council paying the printing, advertising, and stationery,
And tinding a repository for the records, -but not defraying the
14xpenses of his clerks or office of business, and Sir George
14Pwis has little doubt ,that the new table of fees will be amply
‘ufflne, ^ reimburse the Corporation ; but if it should
ta • '.e, the fees can Igo
-.4,0. - to the required
In out to be otnerv4.4..
4'4ount.
for the cowl-
neorge Lewis requests that you WILL _
cleration of the Town Council his recommendation that,
Clerk of the Peace for the borough of Liverpool be paid a salary
(4' £l,OOO per annum in lieu of all fees, &c., except as before
tioceified.-1 have the honour to be, sir, your obedient servant,
G. Cum
(Signed)
Mr. JEFFERY said he thought it desirable that that
letter should be referred to the Finance Committee.
I!efore any discussion took place upon that Sclieet,
there should be some report upon it by a committee;
4M that committee, it appeared to him, should be the
Finance Committee. He thought it would be rather
crude to discuss it then. Probably the Town-Clerk
"141 d give them some information. He saw by the
Dahlia prints that a discussion, as it was called, 104
taken place in St. George's-hall, before the Recorder,
as to the table of fees and the crier of the cot.
The TowN-CLERIC said he had seen the report refer-
I
-IV to, and there was some mistake is the mind of the
•14ecorder. The fees to the crier had always been
but
amongst the fees to the Clerk of the Peace;
;it it was never intended to abrogate them in any way.
Then he saw that in the paper, he had sent to see if
the
Recorder was in town or not, that he might have a
li)aetsbnal interview with him, and put him right; but
e bad left town.
ePuty JEFFERY—I see the duty of crier is done -by
The TOWN-CLERK—Yes.
11‘,tr. WOODRUFF—IS that legal ?
tt4e TOWN-CLERK—Yes.
ldernen TURNER could not see any advantage in
re
fl'erl'in the letter of Sir Q. C. Lewis. The Finance
34iniittee had sent up a deptation to him on the
3°4 ; 410 When they left they had every reason to
" that the salary would be fixed at 801)
PPose
+iT
ROBERTSON' asked if the table of fees was calcu-
eel to produce only 800 ?
The
TowN-CLERK—Yes.
01-1;:11'• ).vrsoN—Supposing the salary of the Clerk of
'athefeace is fixed at a certain sum, would the sum
ps' criei is entitled to be paid to the Clerk of the
eace ,
?• • •
th a The TOWN-CLERK said it would be paid as part of
be°Bt of prosecutions, in 'the 'nine .way as it was
fore charged in the bill. The Corporation would
Pay it,
but\tr:Ayis iot;vould be repaid by the Treasigy.
would call attention to what he con-
sideredthe strong remarks of the Clerk of the Peace
disco,
Recorder. He accused the Town-clerk of
Crime of
y Ntoo7naords.„) him. Now he should like—
t- °lllN-CLERK—I can only say that if I have
treated •
him with 'discourtesy it is unknown to me.
ear) bear.)

Mr. BECKWITH—It is not uncommon among lawyers
to use strong language. (Laughter.)
Mr. STEWART said he was really so bothered with
this question, and unfamiliar with its details, that if he
put a question which the Town-clerk thought ridiculous
he hoped he would excuse him. Suppose the table of
fees produced much less than the salary, were they not
bound to pay the £BOO a year, even if the fees fell
short, ?

The TOWN-CLERK--Yes, sir.
Mr. STEWART said—lf that were so, he was at a loss
to understand what the Clerk of the Peace troubled his
head about the fees for. (Hear, hear.) He could not
understand what he had to do with the fees. He had
only to do with the question of whether the salary
should be £BOO or £l,OOO. They had been six years in
getting the slow gentlemen connected with Government
to fix on a salary. It appeared now as if the Recorder
had to give his consent to it. How many more people
had to consent to it? (A laugh.)
The TowE-CLERK could not understand how the dis-
cussion before the Recorder had taken the turn which
it did. The application which he bad instructed counsel
to make to the court was this. The accounts for prose-
cutions had been all seftled with the Treasury up to
December last, but they had not been able to send the
others, because the Clerk of the Peace refused to give
up orders of the court, pretending they had' not
paid him the table of fees. He (town clerk) had gone
carefully through the fees, and came to the conclusion
that they had paid him fees to which he was not legally
entitled. The application was, that as he was an officer
of the Court, the Court should order him to give up
those papers, and bow the discussion should have taken
the turn which it appeared to have done he could not
understand at present. Under the Act of Parliament
the Council was to recommend the payment of a salary
to the Clerk of the Peace, and also to recommend the
amount, and the Secretary of State was to fix the salary.
Alderman BRAMLEY-MOORE said they had got into
a rather irrevalent discussion as to the point in dispute
with the Clerk of the Peace. The point really at issue,
and which they were called upon to discuss, was the
£l,OOO a-year ; therefore he should sink minor points,
and endeavour to bring the Council back to the true
state of affairs. This he could do without presumption,
having been a party to the original arrangement
in 1844. He thought they should not at once
assent to the proposition of the Home Secretary, as they
ought to be the best and most competent judges of what
their officers ought to receive. It was the glory of our
land that our freedom rests mainly upon our municipal
action ; and he thought if we were not to govern our-
selves, we should be very badly governed if we had to
apply for counsel and direction to the higher authorities
in London. He thought it desirable that a power
should be reserved by the imperial government to control
under certain circumstances, the government of the
municipal authorities; but in ordinary matters he main-
tained that they were the best judges of what was for the
weal of the town, and the best judges of how their own
officers ought to be remunerated. And he thought,
when this matter was properly brought before Sir G. C.
Lewis, he would readily consent to the liberal recom-
mendation of that Council. Now he should, as briefly
.s he possibly could, explain the true state of this busi-
ness. As well as he could remember; the Clerk of the
Peace was appointed in 1844. He was a party to that
arrangement, and therefore might state what really took
place. When the vacancy occurred, Mr. Wright, along
with others-etwo or three others—were candidates to
fill the office of Clerk of the Peace. He ought first to
state that the Town-clerk who preceded their present one,
then held both offices—those of Town-clerk and Clerk of
the Peace. He was remunerated by the Corporation in his
capacity of town-clerk, and there was an honourable
understanding that the whole of the fees of the Clerk of
the Peace should be handed over to the Corporation
fund, and this was honourably carried out to the time of
his death. On his death, when Mr. Wright was ap-
pointed, he was appointed on the honourable under-
standing that he was to receive a salary of £5OO per
annum, and to hand over the surplus fees to the Cor-
poration fund. This went on for a considerable time,
and he made application for increase of salary, which
was most readily assented to,, and
,most liberally so,—
the salary being advanced to about £7OO per annum,
with the same understanding that the surplus fees
should be paid into the Corporation fund ; and he
believed that he himself had paid over those fees
until 1852 ; but from 1852 to the present time he had
paid nothing into the Corporation fund. Now, no cir-
cumstances whatever could alter that honourable under-
standing, which took place in 1844. It was perfectly
true the Corporation could not enter into a; arrange-
ment with Mr. Wright upon parchment, because it
would have been against the law : hence the necessity
for entering into this honourable understanding. Well,
this was carried out till 1852 ; and from that time to
the present he believed the Corporation had not received
anything from that officer. He (Mr. Moore) believed
that Mr. Wright" had received above his salary the sum
of £3,832. That sum, he maintained, was due- from
him to the corporate treasury. He made this state-
ment with regret ; but, as an honourable man, Mr.
Wright was indebted to the Corporation to that
amount. Well, be would go on and say that a former
committee had recommended that the Clerk of the
Peace's salary should be £BOO per annum, and that
exclusive of the expenses of paper, printing, and
stationery. The chairman of the Finance Committee
had just reminded him that this was the recom-
mendation as proposed by the Home Secretary.
The Finance Committee recommended that the salary
should be £7OO per annum, and that also included the
item for rent and everything except the item for clerks.
lie felt perfectly assured that the salary of £BOO per
annum as offered by the Corporation was a very liberal
offer and a most ample remuneration for the extra
duties the Clerk of the Peace LAW to discharge. It
must be borne in mind that the time of the Clerk of the
Peace was not entirely occupied in fulfilling the
duties of the office ; and it must also be borne in mind
that it did not prevent him from taking private
practice, and whether the ei4ce of Clerk of the Peace
was or was not a benefit to such pri7.ate practice, he
must leave to those who were more acquainted with that
point than he was himself. Well, as he had the benefit
of that private practice, which be (Mr. Moore) believed
no other servant of the Corporationoo w
enjoyed,
a mostjoyed,he
thought the recommendation 9i i
ample remuneration for the Pe* oaf the Yea,eo. Let
them look to the salaries paid to the other servants of
the Corporation. He believed the head clerk towhat the '
magistrates had only £7OO per annum. But
salary did the head of the court, in which Mr.
Wright sat es a servant, get ? He was only paid
£5OO per annum, and 41:0 for all extra sessions;
and assuming that there were six extra sessioU.s
ilt
the year, even then his salary would only be equal
to that of the Clerk of the Peace. The Home
Secretary had recommended that the salary should be
£l,OOO per annum. But he believed he should be cor-
rect in stating that, in addition to his enjoying the pri-
vilege pf his private practice, he was in the receipt of
other fees, tiesidea tl.e salary which was paid to him by
the Corporation—fees tiiiat he receiyed from Mint cases,
and for appeal cases, tried at the sessions.
The TowN-CLERK—Suppose that the Clerk of the
Peace is paid by salary, all the fees which he has been
in t 4 *it of receiving will be paid to the borough
fund.
Mr. Alderman BRAMLEy-740ORE—Then what is the
amount he has received, and which would go over to
the funds of the Corporation. Can you giye 4.1 any
approximation as to the amount ?
The TOWN-CLERK—I cannot.
Alderman BRAMLEY-MOORE—It is quite clear that
he has Came fees in addition to his salary. He is in
receipt of certain fees over and above what he is paid
as salary.
The TOWN-CLERK—If his salary is fixed he will have
to account for all those fees.
Alderman. BRAMLEY-MOORE, in continuation, said he
did not think 4 would be worth occupying the time of
of the Council with further discussion on the point.
He had given them a brief epitome of the case from the
time of the appointment of the Clerk of the Perwe, and
he should suggest that the whole case should be placed
before the Home Secretary. There was no doubt but
that Sir qeorg,e C. T•ewis, both as a man of business and
would
properly and carefully '
honourable ran, ren,w factson take a proper view of the
him. There had been
placed before h • a resolution passed
an
question,
by the Council that the salary should be fixed at £800;
therefore, he (Alderman Bramley-Moore) would suggest
that this ,Council take such measures as they may think
proper to place the 001 C of the facts before the Home
Secretary, as to the 400 the Pie* of the Peace would
be called upon to perform, and the remuneration which
4e ought to receive for his services.
Mr. lEITERY said, probably as chairman of the com-
mittee which had been appointed by the Council during
the negotiations with Mr. Wright, he might state that
they had desired him to furnish tllOl4 with an account pf
the fees received over the period of t1:0! which Mr.
Braraley-Moore bad Tamed to: gr. Wright had
decliged to do so ; they told-him their object waves to
adjust the differences between them aq ar as they
able to do, and as the Horne Secretary bad recommended
his salary to be £BOO a year, they should have adjusted
the accounts upon that basis, and not upon the £660
which had been hitherto paid. The committee there-
fore took into consideration and proposed that the basis
of the negotiation should be £BOO a year. lie felt it
his duty, as chairman of the committee, to ascertain if,
possible, seeing that the Clerk of the PeaCe had re-
fused to give them information, what the additional fees
might be estimated at, and he believed they would exceed
the amount which he mentioned—they would exceed
SISQ a: year. Now, if they exceeded £lso a year over a
period of seven Years, excluding this year; that added to
the sum which Mr.' Bratnley.:Moore bad quoted would
make the amount about £4,850, or probably, in road
numbers, £5,000. • The interest on that, at 4 per cent.,
would give him £2OO a year ; and, from the spirit
which he had hitherto manifested, he, did not think that
he would return the sum which Mr. Bramley-Moore had
stated he had unduly recciTad, and,
4141149119RM* PP,

he ought to disgorge. But seeing no disposition of that
kind, it represented in perpetuity a salary of £2OO a year
to him and his family ; so that if they gave him £BOO a
year, his income would, be £l,OOO in spite of anything
the Council could do. He' thought, therefore,'that if a
proper representation were made again to Sir G. C.
Lewis, it would be attended with success.

The MAYOR said, that of course he could not have
the slightest objection to their sending up a deputation
again ; but he could, as one of the deputation whO had
gone, confirm what Mr. Turner had stated. They had
gone very fully ink the matter before Sir George Lewis ;
they had first stated the different salaries which the
Clerk of the Peace had agreed to take—£soo, increased
to 1;660, then increased to £7OO, and, on the recommen-
dation of Mr. Secretary Walpole, that it ought to be
increased to £BOO, their present offer was based. They
had then showed that in comparison with other corporate
salaries, £BOO was an ample salary ; they had showed
that the Clerk of the Peace at Manchester has only
WO a year—(hear, hear)—and the deputation felt
that they had made an impression upon Sir George
Lewis. With Mr. Turner, he confessed that he felt
disappointed•at the communication now made,; they
should have been glad of the assistance of two gentle-
men—the chairman of the Finance Committee and Mr.
Gladstone—who were not present, but he did not think
that the matter could have been stated more fully.
The Town-clerk was present, and went into it at great
length. He was afraid, and he though Mr. Turner
would agree with him, that no great result would be
got by another deputation; still, if it were the pleasure
of the Council to send up another deputation, he had
not the slightest objection.
Mr. MOZLEY asked if the fees of the Clerk of the
Peace's office, and for mint prosecutions, would merge
into the borough fund, would the Clerk of the Peace
have nothing but his salary ?
The TOWN-CLERK—He would receive the fees, but
they would all come to the borough fund.
Mr. MozLEY said that Government would alter the
table of fees so as to make it commensurate with the
amount of salary. After the explanation given by his
Worship he felt that they would do little good by dis-
cussing this question over in the Council. If he under-
stood rightly, the power of fixing the salary was abso-
lately vested in the Home Secretary ; consequently, the
recommendation of the Council would amount to
nothing more than what was already done, and which
had received the sanction of the Home Secretary.
Under those circumstances he felt that to send a
deputation to London,- or to raise the question again of
MO per annum, Would be to some degree useless.
Re therefore ventured to suggest that they refer back
to the Finance Committee the letter of the Home
Secretary, for them to take such a course as they
thought best. It would relieve the Connell of the
responsibility of sending up a deputation, and it would
narrow the question. It would almost be better for
the Council to accept the Home Secretary's recommen-
dation, and to get this vexed question set at rest, and
thus do away with the acrimonious feelings which it
had eTcited among several members of the Council.
He therefore nioved that the letter be referred back to
the Finance Committee,
Mr. AVISON seconded the motion. It appeared to
him that no further good could possibly accrue from
their discussion. He fancied that the Home Secretary
had had all the facts before him.

Mr. JEFFERY.—Mr. Turner told you that he left with
the impression that the salary was to be fixed at £BOO
a year.

Mr. Avisom said ke 4qd then the whole of the facts
before him. The Secretary of State had 4044 after
hearing all that could be urged, for fixing the salary at
£1,090 a year. He thought.he had been very bountiful
to the Clerk of the Peace. He was the arbitrator in
the matoF,, and he had given his award, and they must
be bound by it. t appeared that the Clerk of the
Peace had the option so long as the question was
unsettled of pocketing the fees himself. Therefore, the
longer the-question was kept open the larger the sum
which would go into his pocket, assuming, of course,
that the gilarY 4C.4 fees would amount to £l,OOO a year.
There was one question which he wished to say a word
upon. When the Clerk of the Peace was originally
appointed, there was no act of Parliament•which gave
power to make an arrangement appointing him at
£5OO a year. In 1851, there was an act, and it was
under that act the application was made to the Secretary
of Stat,l lx the salary. Mr. Wright did not consider
himself bound by tb.c 4rrangement which had been
referred to. Each man could best judge for bintself,
and he (Mr. Avison) should not have taken the course
followed by the Clerk of the Peace. It appeared to
him, however, that the Secretary of State having said
the 62447 Should be £l,OOO they could do nothing but
assent. _ _

Mr. STEWART, addressing the 11974-**, appFe7
hended it was entirely optional with the Council
whether they paid a salary or not. (Town-clerk :
" Yes,") And if he understood right, the table of fees
had been calcukted to proclilce £BOO a year ?
The Towx-CLERK.--_-The £BOO a year, and the cost
of printing and stationery.
Mr. STEWART said that was the lower scale of fees.
Now, he could not understand why the Corporation were
to undertake the risk, and give a guarantee for a certain
amount. lie saw no compulsion ; and if they were not
bound he should rot be a party to the payment of £l,OOO.
Let the Clerk of the Peace take his fees.

•
The MAYOR-Mr. Stewart, might I ask you to con-
sider that the Council came to a resolution that it is
expedient the Clerk of the Peace should be paid by
salary.
Mr. STEWART said, that the Connell adopted such a
resolution was true, but they adopted it on the gilder-
standing that the salary should be £BOO.
Alderman J. BRAMLBY-MOORE really did not see any
use in referring the matter back to the Finance Com-
mittee. Any resolution would come with more weight
from the Council itself. He would go to the root of
the evil at once. If we were not compelled to pay a
salary, he would not give anything. If he understood
the Town-Clerk aright, they were not compelled to do
so; and if it be so, he should let the Clerk of the Peace
receive the fees on the new scale, and withhold the
salary altogether ; for it had been well said by the
chairman of the Finance Committee, why should the
Corporation guarantee a salary, more especially after
what had been said on this subject. He would come at
once to the point. They should take action themselves,
and not refer it to the committee—take action at once,
and say i4Qy would not give a salary ; or that they
would make a further recommendation to the rfome
Secretary to reduce it to £BQO.
Mr. ROBERTSON said gr. Bramley-Moore and Mr.
Stewart should remember that as business might increase,
the fees would double in amount.

Mr. Mo7Ami said lie lia4 placed in the hririris of the
Town-clerk a alight deviation from the original motion,
and that he now wished to submit.

The Town-clerk then read the resolution, as follows :
" That in the opinion of this Council the sum of
£l,OOO, recommended by the Secretary of State as the
salary of the Clerk of the Peace, is more than an ade-
quate remuneration for the duties performed by that
officer; that it adheres to its recommendation of £BOO
per an4uu4, as affording a must, lihcral salary for those
duties; and that the 'letter' tho Secietarl of State
now read be 'referred tb the 11'411'$:dice' COmfrattee, With
instructions to take such steps as they think fit; 'with the
view of giving effect to the wishes of the Counbil." •
Alderman BRAMLEY-MOORE said he saw no objection
to that.

Mr. CLARKE AsPrriArSupposing the Council say,
"We won't pay the Clark of the Peace a salary at all,"
would he fall baek upon the new or the old scale of fees ?
The TOWN-CLERK--.I don't think he cctild fall back
ife added that in strict law the
upon
thelas old
t ratis;eadlew:
was
ill e
only
legal table ip twee ; htlit
the Council should understand the circumstances under
which they had fixed that table. -Besides, the Secre-
tary of State had their resolution that the Clerk of the
Peace should be paid by salary, and so long as that
remained he had the power of fixing the salary.
Mr. CHARLES TURNER—And this remains,—that the
Home Secretary agreed to that table of fees, having
your resolution before him.
/gr. Mozley's motion, as amended, was then put and
unanimously -agreed to.
THE WATCH CONIIIII7F.•
The proceedings, res'elutions, and reports of the
Watch, Lighting, Pire-poliCe, Fire Prevention, Hut.:
neY Carriage, Licensing, and Gas Committees, com-
prised a reComruenclation to rate to the ighting and
Fire-police Rates those owners of property who have
refused to compound for such rates.
Mr. CLINT moved the confirmation of the proceedings,
and mentioned that Colonel Woodford, the Government
Inspector, who had been present last week, and reviewed
the fope, eprPgqd generally in I:.err fa1:°11r"
able terms of the Police of this town. Je was sure
it
would be satisfactory to the Council and the town
generally.
Mr. JOHNSON. seconded the motion.
Mr. SEI:FERT should like to know whether OM 110
any printed Instructfona for the gqiclance of that portion
of the force understood to be the fire brigade; whethq
there were any particular instructions ; whether they
undergo drill, and hour freqnentli they are put through
that exercise ; also, what is the nature of it,
'he *Avon said no douht the Chairman of the Watch
Committee would answer that question.
Mr. °TINT thought he had some reason to complain
of Mr. Jeffery not having given notice of his intention
to ask such questions ; but he had a document at hand
, which would enable him to reply. _ At each of the five
stations there were three firemen turucocks, one being
always on duty day and night. These men were held
responsible for the efficient discharge of their duties.
These fire-turncocks, instead of busying themselves in
getting out the engines or reels, at once proceeded to the
place vfhere the fire was, and hUsied themselves it betting
a supply of water. was siirprised 6 see in'a report
the'other day, made by a snbLcomini'ttee 'to the Water
Committee, but which had not been confirmed by the
general cQuirgittee, an apegatiou which, on the part of
the Watch Committee, he felt it his duty altogether to
deny. It seemed altogether an irregular report ; it had
n9t
received the sanction of the Water Committee,

and why it should find its way into the papers—more
particularly reflecting rather seriously as it did upon
the affairs of the police force —he was at a loss
to know. The committee felt aggrieved at seeing
such a report; and had requested him, as their chair-
man, to give that allegation a denial. He had great
objection to coming into collision with any other com-
mittee of the Council ; but when charges of that nature
were made, without, as he thought, proper considera-
tion, he thought there was no course left but to take
that notice which he had now done. He could only
assure the Council generally, that the Watch Committee
give perhaps more attention to that branch of service
than any other, seeing the great importance of having
it in a state of efficiency. The three tire-turncocks were

in attendance, and immediately attended every locality
where a fire breaks out. They were on the spot as soon
as possible to get a supply of water , and he did not
think that any amendment or improvement could be
made in that respect. He hoped this answer would be
satisfactory to Mr. Jeffery and the Council.

Mr. JEFFERY must state that he did not consider

the answer that had been given at all satisfactory. It
was not an answer to his question. The question that
he had asked was, whether the fire brigade received
drill--whether they received especial instructions, and
the answer he received was, that there was three turn-
cocks at all the stations.

Mr. BFLOE was greatly surprised at the position taken
by Mr. Clint. There was not one word of that report
which he, as the chairman of the sub-committee, had
had the honour of making a draft of, contained
a single reflection on the Watch Committee, and as
it was lying at the Town-clerk's office, that
gentleman could, if he had thought proper, have
made himself acquainted with its contents. The only
portion of the report to which allusion could be made
was this :—lt said, " but it does not appear from the
evidence whose duty it was to instruct the fire police."
When the evidence of the men came before the Council
they would find such questions as these—" How are you
instructed?" The answer was, "We get up our infor-
mation the best we can, and experience teaches us a
great deal." Now, he must say that he was surprised
that a man of Mr. Cliut's intelligence took the course
he had done, and made use of irregular reports from a
newspaper. What he should have done would have
been to have awaited quietly until the whole report had
been brought forward and discussed.
Mr. CHARLES TURNER said he would tell the chairman
of the Watch Committee that the Water Committee was
most desirous that the report should not be published Ii
until such a time as it had been fully discussed in the
committee. They were desirous that it should not appear
in the papers until the whole matter had been fully ven-
tilated, because they thought that until it had been dis-
cussed and considered that it might reflect upon indi-
vidual charaeters ; and so desirous was the Water
Committee that it should not appear, that he had himself
requested the reporters not to publish it, and he thought
that they left the room with that understanding ; but
through some means a report had appeared, which was
far from correct, and upon that incorrect data Mr.
Clint had based his arguments.

Mr. Alderman DOVER begged to he permitted to, put
a question to Mr. Jeffery relative to what steps had been
taken in regard to the public offices. (Laughter.)
The Mayon—You are out of order in putting such a
question ; it is not on the minutes.

[As the Water Committee particularly requested that
neither the brief discussion which took place upon the
reading of the report nor the report itself should be
published until it had been regularly discussed, in order
that the " antidote," as Mr. Chas. Turner had observed,
" might go forth with the poison,- the
reporter complied with the request, but our contem-
poraries did not do so.]
The proceedings of the Watch Committee were then
confirmed.
THE HEALTH COM*ITTEE.
The proceedings, resolutions, and reports of the
Health Committee, comprised a recommendation to rate
to the Sanitary and Improvement Rates those owners of
property who have refused to compound for such rates ;
and a recommendation to appoint Mr. William Swift
Inspector of Smoke Nuisances, at per annum.
On the motion of M. Alderman Dover, the above
recommendations were unanimously adopted.
The MAYOR said he had received a letter from the
West Derby Board of Health, and perhaps it would be
better to have the letter read.

The TOWN-CLERK then read the letter, including an
extract from the proceedings of that board, and was to
the effect, that ar, the board were about to make some
new drainage, which would to some extent interfere
with the borough drainage, they expressed a desire that
the Corporation would permit them to have the services
of Mr. Newlands, the borough engineer, in the con-
struction of such drainage.

Mr. HODUsON thought the letter should he referred
to the Health Committee.

Alderman DOVER moved a resolution to that effect.
Mr. SHEIL did not see the necessity for referring the
letter to the Health Oommittee, because it was one that
the council must decide. The application in the letter
for the assistance of the borough engineer, involved a
great principle. It must be manifest to the whole
town that Mr. Newlands hack as much as he could pro-
perly attend-to in the town ; and he did hope, thp4 ;be
Counoil would not consent to his performing duties in
other places. Again, there was a large staff connected
with the borough engineer's department, and he objected
that the services of their servants should be devoted to
other parties, to the injury of the ratepQyers,
Mr. Alderman BENNETT expressed a wish that the
letter should be referred to the committee, and that it
should be properly considered and discussed, and that
then the committee would be in a position to report
upon the subject.

Mr. Alderman DOVER said he would withdraw his
motion. (Cries of "No, no ;we will not allow you.")
Alderman BENNETT, in continuation, said that he
hoped that the Council would accede to the request, and
permit the borough engineer to render the West Derby
Board all the assistance in his power.

Mr. J. A. TOBIN was very much in favour of the etter
being referred to the committee, and he, was also sure
that any service rendered by Mr. Newlands would be
most advantageous to that board. The application was
for his valuable assistance in preparing the drainage.
That was a most important subject, and required a great
deal of consideration.

Mr. CLINT concurred in the sentiments which had
been uttered by Mr. Sheil. The question involved wars
one of principle. It, no doubt, was essential that in
making drainage it was necessary to have best
infor-
mation, and that could be had from :fir. Newlands and
his staff; but whether or not he was to receive pa for
,y
it, was another point.
Mr. ifITTLELIALE thought the Council should mu,_
ply with the request, and let Mr. Newlands continue to
do all that he could to benefit the community.

Mr. J. R. JEFFERY fully appreciated the talents and
abilities possessed by Mr. Newlands and the services he
rendered the Board of Health for Toxteth Park of which
board he (Mr. Jeffery) was a member, thought that
if it did not interfere to. much with his ditties that 1-,te
should be allowed to give his services. There was one
thing, boweier, which he did not agree with, and that
was, he could not see that there was any necessity for
three gentlemen to go to Scotland to, the Social Science
Meeting. There, were three going, Dr. Duncan, mr.
Newlands, and Mr. M‘Gowan. He could not see that
either the lawyer or the doctor were required.

Mr. Alderman DOVER protested against Mr. Jeffery
going into the domestic characters of their officers.
After a few words from Mr. Alderman Parker, Mr.
C. Aspinall, Mr. Avison, and Mr. Weedy?,
Mr. Alder4an Doynit begged to say u few words in
reply. He might have been led to take a different
view of this question, if ho had not recollected the
treatment Liverpool received from these out-townships
some time ago. It was proposed that an act of Parlia-
ment should be applied for, and that all the places
adjacent to Liverpool should be included in it for sani-
tary purposes. But no sooner was it proposed than
meetings were held at Garston, Walton, Aigburth, and
West Derby, and for ten miles round, and the eo9ora
tion was held up to odium by them all, because a *as
thought right that there' should be one act, and that
those ryas 'shOtildt P 4 a portion of the expenses.
They wanted to get the benefit of Mr. Netiato:s
experience and knowledge, hnt they were not willing to
pay for it, nor for the expenses of the large staff under
him. That was their conduct, and now they came cap in
hand and criedpeceavi. Such had been the conduct of the
out-townships, and he did not believe that they had yet
repented of their folly.
Mr. CHARLES TURNER—Yeg, they -13,M.
410,qman DolErt said—Under all the circum-
stances of the case, he should support the motion, that
the letter lie on the table.
The Council then divided on the motion for refgring
the letter to the Health COmmitte, which was carried
by 2i to 11

The folloving was the voting :
For referring the letter—Councillors S.heil, Barton,
Littledale, Tyrer, Turner, Estill, Avisoa, Steains4
Graves, Jeffreys, Tobin, S,olutson, decry, godson,
Beckwith, Steel, liobertson, 'Vernon, Livingston; Alder-
men Bennett, Preston, Parker, J., H. Turner, Woodruff,
and the Mayor.
Against it : Councillors Aspivall, Hay dock-, Clerk,
Bowring, Beloe, Nickson, Aikin, Clint, Cropper ; Alder-
man Dover and Houghton.
THE HEALTH OF THE TOWN.

Mr. Alderman DOVER said, in moving the confirmation
of the general proceedings of the Health Committee, he
could but allude to some remarks made in the Registrat-
General's repo-it in reference to LiverpoOr. appeared
that the assertions had been made without sufficient
inquiry, and were perfectly erroneous as' to facts. it,here,
was no doubt that M a, place like tiverpocki thew wasa
great number of deaths,' bikt, iu ‘?„ laT,,,,f,f,aiy point of view
there were fevi pla.co to equal it. Ey the returns, they
found that the death-rate for the little agricultural
village of Eastbourne was 15 in the 1,000; but what
did they find, that in Liverpool the death-rate was only
171 in the 1,000. It was clear that with such a rate of
mortality, only 1717 Liverpool was not so bad as it had