The Stourbridge Observer, Cradley Heath, Halesowen & District Chronicle.
Stourbridge, West Midlands, England, 1873-09-06 00:00:00


THESTOURBRIDGE OBSERVEtt.

Did he in Wenn-Wasp wear a beard or moselachet —Had
bs any heir on bin tam 7-111hieb these's* am he has DOW.
Is that the way Arent Orton wore his hair ; he wore
his NM as the Mein.
Had Arthur Orton any whiskees t—Very slight. He had
more on his chin than anywhere elan
Did you me thin min Castro onnetantly atter you took the
Millard room 7—Yes, and woe comeently in his society.
Have you ever heard Arthur Ort ..aon and himself
together I cannot say I have not heard Anon
speak.
Do you remember whether or not you ever heard your
Arthur Orton address him, or he addrem your Arthur mon ?
—No, sir.
Did you ever hear anybody address Arthur Orton in your
presence /—Only on the Latent
Do you remember any conversation ot any sort between
Orton and Castro 7—No. I cannot.
Was Orton °Men at Wane Wagger—Hs was there 'boa
three times altogether.
Do you remember when these ommaloos were 7-11nt first
time wan very mon after I got there.
Before or after you saw the Defendant 7—About eight
months before.
Hew long did he remain there 7—He stayed one night.
And that was before Mr. Higgine came 7—Tee.
When next do you say he came 7—About 18 months after
that He stayed about • week.
I should like to know when the third occasion was 7—That
was in 1884. It might be six or nine months after the 'mond
visit I Mould not like to swear.
How long did he stay the third time 7—Abont a week or
nine dap, during the race week.
- - • -

.
By Mr. Jolting Mellor : Then are always a Int of etranrre
at racer—them would be fotty or fifty In the billiard room.
He woe alone when he gave me the I 0 ll—ill wee the neat
morning
The Lord Chief Justin: You aaw him thrm tlmee—the
Aril time for one night , the recond time. Si the n 0..; and
the third time, at the rams, when he had get a job With
cattle? .

—Witness: Yo. my lord
At /OW Mins did he glee you the I 0 1.7 /—On the mond
occasion he came to Wagga-Wagge.
And then, on the third owe/doe, he pdd yon the money?
—lie did, my lord.
Mr. Ileuklnc: Do you remember/myth/mg partleula about
ttsur 011013.4 looks

Nothing 'particular.
Was there anything eh no his face I—Yes; he was a person
who eAtid be meow:dad *sally.
Mr fissile ins : Look at those three photographs, and Wiles.
what you think.
Witness re• small one looks most like Orton, If there be
any resemblainc I fancy there Is some likeness there.
lbs Lnid Cold Justice Is that the way he were the hair
mond the tam ?
Witneu Something in that mode.
If r. Mackin.: And about the mouth?
Witness: Yee.
.. _

Ad &bout lb. bar I—Yes.
Re-examined ; Meet ten yeare ago in Waggle-W.IP mid
from Sid. to eid. per lb. I only made a etatement at Ender,
Rose and Norton's. I sayer sold the defendant was not In
the butchering Mullane.

------- ---
By the Lord Chief Jutting, Arthur Orton was not & resi-
dent of Waggo-Wegga to conatont employment.
By Mr. Justice Mellor I hove teen the defendant and
Arthur Orton in the billiard-room and in the yard soljetning.

By the Foreman : When Matzo went to business ho put
his name over ths shop.
- - • -

Mr. /Comely asked their lordship. if they would reconsider
their determination not to allow the a:peaces of this witness
and Mr. Woolnoligh, in conmquence of the inaufilciency of
notice of the names of the wane...a and what they were to
prove

Did you ever in Australia Mar the mane of Omer° I—No.
PM* Lord Cidee Jude. °bogeyed that In the promedinp
IT, Or .1116 97 Otto against Poster he claimed wages down
to November. 1868. Therefore, It we. clew that either
this witness was to ORM Si to dates or there must have
been two Arthur Orion.. The award in that sidt was in
January. 1859.
J tudice Mellor: Did you notice say pockmarks 1—
No.
Or mange I—No.
Or any soar on his cheeks? No.
Nor any twitch In hi. eyes I—No.
Nor any °oar-Waive motion I—No.
The Lord Chief Jostles observed that Gibbet dated that
the defendant had It Vitas Dance.
After other witnemea had been examined, the Court
again adjourned.

Mr. Kane*ly on Tnealay morning asked to recall
Wm. Bentley, the innkeeper of liopley, in order to put
certain questions which he omitted to do the previous
day, in consequence of his having to examine him from
• printed report of his evidence on the hat trial.
instead of from his new brief, which he had not with
him.
The Lord Chief Justice said it was a bad precedent
to set, but under the circumstances the Court would
permit it.
Wm. Bentley was then recalled and examined by Mr.
Kenealy. Ile said be knew Colonel George Greenwood, and
remembered hie making, with the isealstance of Roger
rlchborne, a eaten over the dead hone. Rota's shirt deer.
were tucked up ash. was wheeling the stones In a barrow.
Beta. no tattoo mark; on his arm.
Cr..ies examined by Mr. Hawkins Believed hie mentioned
the making of the cairn when ha was examined at the last
trial, but would not be positive, and would not pledge hie
oath on the subject. Relieved it was mentioned in his
" brief." Wu sure he saw it In the" betel" which Mr. Ooalow
wrote for him since the lug tea That was about two
months ago. Thought it was not Mtn Colonel Greenwood
wee mined in this trial. Did not know when he was examiued.
Culd not 'vodka reading his evident., and could not
swear that the brief was written attar he was examined. Was
examined at the last trial after Dr. Ligeoomh, who said he
did not are "R. C. V. on Roger's arm. Last eight, after he
left t3O box. he said lon clerk that he ought to have been
asked about the tattoo marks.
The Lord Chief Justice : Did the witneee at the lest trial
make no mention whatever of the cairn?

Mr. Hawkins : He did not say • syllable about it.
The Witness I mentioned Colonel George Greenwood,
and I believe I spoke about his working at the cairn with
Roger.
The Lord Chief Patios, haring looked at the evidence,
said the witness did Lot say anything about the matter.
Mr. Hawkins : Will you swear you ever mentioned the
cairn until two months ago 7--i will swear nothing about it,
bat I believe I mentioned it to many persons.

_
Mr, Joitice Mellor: How came Mr. Ouslow to write down
your erlitu co t— He raked ma what I knew about the case,
and wrote what 1 kohl him.

Cram-examination continued : Before the last Mini Balgent
did not came to me with Mr. Ouslow, but he cam• with
Rouse. ROlttel arms were band up to his elbows when 1
wr him. He had • sort of rummy on and no shirt. The
guernsey wee of brown colour—not quite white.
The Lord Chief Jostica : You said you saw him with his
*MA al up?
• ••-

Wit.,... Yes- ; but I .aw him on another occasion with
only hi. guernsey on, when he wan working at the cairn. It
may have been in 1848 or 1849, about the harreet time, I
fancy. I mentioned the cairn to hundred. of person. before
I mentioned it to Mr. Onslow. I went to a public meeting at
the Oxford and .poke I did not mention the cairn. I don't
think Mr. Whs.bey produced a collar belonging to Roger
Tiohborne, but I hate heard it spoken about. I never saw it
produced.
- .

Bwaxamtned I merely said at the minting that they
might depend upon It that thus man was Sir Roger Tiohbonse.
More I was examined M the last trial I never heard the
tattoo marks mentioned.

To the Lord Chief Justice: I do not recollect who asked
me to go to the Oxford Ilan. Professor Anderson was one
of the speakers
Who label—The Wizard of the North.
Oh! • conjuring gentleman !—Ys.. (Laughter.) Ile spoke
about the Milburn' affair, and so did MI. Onslow. I knew
I Wl4 likely to be examined at this trial, and yet I made s
speech at a pupae meeting. I IMO, I ought not to have
done so.
The Lord Chief Justice : It was a gross Impropriety in your-
self and in those who encoursged it.
To the Jury : I received subecrlptioral for the defendant.
Janes, the Australian witness, here produced the meat
tickets he mentioned the previous day, They were dated In
June, IbsB, and he old they enabled him to say that It was
just before then—he thought in May—that he Irst met
Arthur Orton at Friar's Creek.
To the Lord Chief Jostles,: I do not know Boisdale, but It
Is not In the neighbourhood of Friar's Creek, or I should have
known It.

Thomas' Parker, a farmer and corn-dealer near Alton,
Hants, who was also examined at the 1W trial, was next
called. He knew Roger Tichborne from the latter part of
16.8 to 1250. Roger used to come lining on homehmck to
his hoes. In company with a tenant named John (indwell,
but merely to pas. toe time away. At that time he (wit
nest) was a tenant of Lord Rodney. Moo met Roger in
the bunting-field and at Tichhorne Perk. Sold Rozer a
horse for .f. 50 and shortly alterwsrus received a cln quo
for the amount from lios'ord lie bad In Lie possession
the letter Enclosing the cheque. (It was dated Dec 28,
1888.) When Roger came to his house be sometimes had
lunch

Lock at this gentleman. Who Is he /—That is Roger
Tlchborne. I saw him first after his return In 1867 at Aires.
ford. He did not know the defendant for the first minute,
but after he stroke he was c •uvinced he WWI the seine
Person he knew before. The defendant walked Ilse
his uncle 81r Henry, a little in.karel lie spoke to
the defendant about the horse he houcht from him,
•ird he •.rid he rerollrcted the eircunt•t•Lee, a,tl that
at the time of the t:arimctlon he was riding his uncle's
pony which WM called Louisa. That was correct. A t:T.
wards he (wituesai made Inquiry about the name of
the pony, and found he had giveu the right narc• The
defendant also said that at the time they were riding through
the coverts at Cherlton. That was quite right He also
spoke of his uncle Robert lining at Chilton and Bishops
Sutton, equally correct statements. 9.noe 1867 the defendant
had called lieveral times air his house. Had ark the .lightest
doubt that the defendant was Roger Tichborae.

Cromberamined by Mr.Seri-ant Parry: I have Oven to-day
substantially the tame evieenew I gave on the fleet trial.
have been asked different questions to-Jay—about the
coverts., and Ma uncle Robert living at Chilton and Bishops
Button. I was asked the questions, and I /are answered
Ibsen. I mentioned them In my statement to Mr. Har-
court. I must hsve ki own Root from 1,8 to 10 I. 1
he rad It salt I.e hod gone into tf,o ceny. :u
Fahruary. lead, I !midi an ath Isvd In which I sold I
tuner lom bet seen 18411 mai 1e.53 1 would not then hind
myself to the dates. l was very 11l who I a gi.el the
affidavit, and I might not have rend It over. I Mgt
saw Alan on the 20:h Septembtr, 1867, to the "Swan" yard
Alresford, on his return from shooting. I heard he was at
Alreeford thoiChrletmae of 18811. I might have said before
seeing him that I should know him again became he bad
bought • brown horse from me. I never named that he was
riding his uncle's hay pony " Louisa." I don't know
she was called the Black Prince," and he might have
been • "green one " for what I know. (Laughter.) I
had been in the coarse of the tear at the "Swan." I
attend Alton market. rh• defendant's return was mnh
talked of at Alresford. I know Hastead, a butcher.
ffe was with me In September when I first saw the
defendant. I saw, for the first thee, that day lhomas
Carter, the defendant's servant The conversation about the
horse was in the yard In the presence of seven or eight per-
son.. When I asked Carter for Sir Roger he turned away and
left. I niblit have previously spolt•li to ilastead about the
purchase of the horse. I will not say it WY not. I spoke to
the defendant Ant. I named the purchase if the horse. I
asked him if he recollected it. I did not say a brown horse.
After recollecting for • moment Ca 5n14, "Ott, yap, very well f
a brown hone, and I rode my uncle's pony at the II no."
That convinced me at once he was Sir It ger.
—•-
.._

- -
Sajesnt Parry: But if any one had told him about the
Pony?
Witness Oh, eh ! I nEver thought of that. I don't think
sly one could have told him about the pony : 1 never
mentioned it. His voice was altered. It wee different from
the Hampshire dialect, He did not vela like a foreigner.
Ills Voice had not altered since I saw him at Ropeley and at
Mr Guildford (Melon's about three months ago. I reoogniaed
the defendant by his voice and the upper part of his Nee.
Roger wee not so stout as the defendant: he had frame
enough to make • big MOM, but I should not have expected
to see him to his. Lillywhite vraa a servant at Tichborne
Park, Red in 1867 he told me there was a posy called Loads.
Lillywhite in 1887 wu living at Tient:roma, in the employ.
ment of Mr. Btubbes, with whom the defendant had been
shooting on the day I first saw him. I knew the defendant
by the upper part of his two and the teitchiug of the me.
breve

Reexamined I might have mentioned the circumstance
of the poopeto some one. Oulu could not have had any
previous conversation with the defendant on the day I Ihst
spoke to him. I had forgotten about the pD7 until he
mentioned it. 81. Henry wits • very stout man. I think
Ltilywhlte wee pointed out to me at e meeting of 810
Boger'. friends.

By the Lord Chief Justice I think Mr. Gosford vas with
Roger when he purchased the hors I went with it to ?lob-
bores for his uncle's approvaL I don't know the groom who
took charge of the bores from me.
By Ile. Jostle» if : People sometimes remember
volose When they don't recollect other nutters. The defend-
note •101011 Is not husky or clear—lt is much like other
peoples.
By a Juryman : I understood that Roger had corns from
France on a visit to him uncle.
A Juryman sail he left Btonyhurit in the Annum: at the
year the horme was bought.
Charles Guy I am a labourer 11•Ing at Tichborne. I
worked en the estate about YO year.. I know Roger. I
have area him walking alone and with Mims Doughty
at mes. I remember when he lett to go soroad.
I think I last saw him the year when Bir Edward,
Doughty died. I have area him grabbing up the roots
of an old tree. He had him jacket off, sod hie shirt
sleeves turned up. He had I turns at the mine tree.
I never maw the mlightest mark on his arms—no tattoo mark'.
I have seen him walking many times with Miss Doughty in
the bye walks about Tichborne, and in the coach r eel lead-
ing to the house. The bye walks are fenced in in the park.
The defenosot is Roger Charles lichborne. The Orat tine
I saw the defendant after his return I met him in Alresford.
I touched my hat to him, and he said ..Good morning,
Goy." It, was ',Liking with Mr. ilopleine at the time up the
Illgh.street. I have had no convenatl9l2 with him.

crose.egemioed by Mr Hawkins: I first saw Mr. Wright
two months ago about my °sideline. Old Charley Guy was
my father. He is alive. I believe his stateimut hae been
taken. Roger did not attend his uncle's funeral. Roger
had not left many weeks before his uncle died. I bells, Ic
waa it was in 1848 or 1849 that he tried to grub up the old oak.
I have laughed at hi. awkwarsuess, 1 don't know if my (Whet.
hu • curt on his arm army brother William. I don't tbiuk
they hsve. I have seen tiu m with their ci up many
time.. Tom Volker. the blacksmith, shosed me tattoo
smirks on his am Roger never playluily ahowed me paint
marks.on hi. uw: _

B y the Lord Chief Jastice: Lb. bye walks are the garden
with,.
Re-examined: I saw Roger the morning he left Tichborne
House to go abroad, walking with Hiss Haughty. They
were bluing. and Cr}illf, and wiping each other's lean with
• white handkerchief (laughter), whilst the fly was wattle g
to take him away. 1 helped to carry Sir If.dward to Li.
grave. I never saw tattoo ma,ks on my brother'. ann.

By the Lord Chief Justice : I can't say the time *hen Roger
tel I, L caul say whether the I were green or try:
whether it was spring, sunnier, autumn, or wb•ter. I don't
know how loug he had lean at Tichborne. His Malts le.
ponded on the hunting or sbootiog mason. I don't know
Ii these seasons regulated his Malt& I Should not think It
was two or three months before March, 1853, that Sir Siward
died, that 1 eaw them kissing and crying. 1 am sum It was
only • short time Ware his death.
By Mr. Justice Mellor: I have spoken of the ciroumstance
to goons. I Bret told it to Mn. Wright two months ago for
the purpose of this trial, hut he did not write it down. I am
pretty well sure that I told him. I thick I told him. I
believe so.
The Lord Chief Justice: I call your attention, Mr. %mealy'
to the witness'. statement about the kissing. You put no
question to him about it.
Mr. Kneel, : Wright hub agent of oars
Mr Hawkins : Ile Is clerk to Mr. Adams, of Alreaford,
and he Is one of the witnesses to be called for the defence.
The Lbrd Chief Justice : lit. very remarkable that the
circumstance of the kissing should ehly have come out
spontaneously in cross-examination,
Catherine Skates : My husband keeps the "Golden Fleece
at Petersdeld. Previous to May hat we lived at the
•• Windmill" at Alton. I first saw Boger on the death of
Mr Henry Tichborne. He wee • very stout man. I oi ten
saw him at Tichborne. I recollect him perfeetly well. I
have frequently MOO him walking with Miss Doughty. I
once met them near the Lovers' ,Beal when I was coming
from Tlchborne Downs. It is a public pathway leading
out of the avenue, about half a mile from Tech.
borne Hons.. These hi an extenalve view from
the seat over Tichborne Downs I once met them
walking rounds field called " and In Broeneworth.
road :Milner on • stile acmes a public footpath. Boger asked
what the band was Vuylng for. I told him they were
" Maybe at Cbattee—havlng • dance. It was In June or
July. I hays Maw assa Sugar and leas Doughty at the

Rev. Mr. Till.. I Had there as dm:antis when le had.ur I
servant I remember Roger DellectlY
Mr. Remaly : Look at the defendant, and MR me who
I. Is.
Wins.: Rorer Charles Doughty Tiobborne. I did not
recognise Min when Ara I saw him with Mr. Rouen but I
saw • great reamblanee in'tdax to old Mr Henry Ttobband
On the Sunday the defendant made inertia tor my lather.
I next saw him st the Dowager Lady Zebboasefs funeral.
I then lud • good view of him forth, Int Vase, and I felt
certain he was Roger. I has dace SIM Min and talked
to him.
- - - -

[Witness was then cross-examined by Berissnt Parry
By the Lord Chief Justice: I wet speak to the length of
Roger's visits at Tlehborns atter Ise IA 'shoot In November,
1648. I will not nay that he ever stayed there six or eight
month. at • time. I 'Mak he esme to Mr. Tithe with
his cousin, both before and Mier he left Stony-
hunt The precise period I don't remember. he
was at 'Dab mile In the summit before he finally
lef L It might have been for • week or • fort-
night. I can't my If It wss that annuals... or the sum-
mer before that I saw him and his °nub) together. It might
hive bean In both summer.. I saw them more than one
summer Mier he left Stossyhurst, but I °mil Say bow many
or the dates of the years. lam not positive about It.
By • Juryman : Allred was a Shin, abort man.
By the Lord Chief Justice It was not In the winter
time that I saw him. It was in May or June, In the sum-
mer time

Albert Ernest Pants: I am a trader with lins .took between
England said the oolonles. I sailed In the Mill Watch from
Gravesend for Australia In November, 1858. It was imme-
diately alter the Duke of Wellington's funeral.
A Juryman : That was in 1862
Within: It was very woos after the funeral. Oa arriving
at Melbourne I had temporary rinployment in the poet office
there as clerk. I became stock-keeper with Mr. Mooney on
the Murray River, at the Morocuo station. I remained with
him eb.at two years. Alter that I went with Mr. Sweeney
and Mr. esker, of Ballarat. I was also employed by Mr.
Glasse, of Melbourne, and other,. I had m's wader meac
cording to the quantity of stock I had in my charge. I met
Arthur Orton at Dentlquin about 1858. He was a tell, large-
framed man, with light brown hair and whiskers. He was
clumsy In his appearance, and "shop" made (laughter.)
The Lord Cheat Justice What 1. the English for it?
Witness : Disjointed. Ile had lane hands and feet,
and ho was a large-bodied man. He was fair- oom -
pinioned; had light eye-heowe, and • not very prowl-
neat nose. There was a peculiarity about his mouth,
from the upper up protruding. His cheek bones ware
rather high. If. was driving a team of bullocks in •
dray when fleet I saw him. 1 saw him two or three time*,
I did not corn, Into personal communication with him, but
asked who he was, and another man who was with me said
he was stalled Orton, or Arthur Orton, I don't remember
which. I saw him once afterwards, between the Dimwit'.
River and Mount Alexander. stout 1857. -

Mr.ion —oo:17-7-litia as;Ft be, banana. you saw him ant In
184 . . .

Witness: It was In 1868. Hs woo then driving a hors*
and cut. I went to Waggs-Wagsa in 1067. It was only
one street then, though ti had been surveyed for • town-
ship.
Mr. Judie. Lush How could you have gone there from
Mount Alexander?

Witness It most have been 1858. I was living at Cuba.
a station belonging to Mr. Tooth, about 15 miles from Wane
Waggs. 1 wan there about live or six months. At Wagga
Waggs I sew a person who paseed under the Dame of Tom
Witco. lie was butchering.
The Lord Chief Justice : What date.

- .
Witness : h 1869 He was butchering for himself to the
best of my belief. I did DOt observe soy name over Me shop.
I left him • lame sheep on e. I saw Ma then about half a
dozen time& The defendant Is the perison I knew as I
Castro
but not as Orton. There is re no resembiance between the.
might have spoken to Orton once or twice, to Castro hall •
dozen times. . .

Cross arantined by Mr. Ilawkins : I reside at Newmarket
I have been in Mr. Joseph Dewson'e servioe there as stable-
man. I was with him tour or goo mouth.. I left his .rvioli
about 15 or 16 months 1410. I have been to no Wide* dune.
Mr. liawlitos : Are you a tont I
Wit.....: Yes.
Mr Mawkins : I thought so. And giving tips
Whom.: That does not belong to me.
Mr Hawkins: And watching a trio.!!
The Lord Chief Justice: Not this trial.
Mr. Hawkins: No, a more rural 000upation--watohlng be.
bind a tree.

—ViL;IIB7 No, I have not done It.
The Lord Chief Justice la It worth while pursuing this
cross•exanainatlon further t He fixes the year 1859 a. when
he saw Castro at Wags. Walrus., and the defendant himself
*fated he did not go there until 1882
Mr. Hawkins: Did you ever speak to Arthar Orton I
Witness: I don't believe I did.

Mr. Kennaly: I don't understand whit I tout Is sO well all
Mr Hankim—what Is it 7 (Laughter.)
Wituou lam not, strictly speaking, a honk It Mr. Haw-
kins...ens, of the word. If a gentleman Irish, s to know
what sort of work a certain horse Is doing, I find out and
let him know. I hare not ilnishad making up Willie',
books.

The Lord Chief 'natio. Do you mean his account books
Witoms : Yes. I have not teen promised anything for
giving evidence in this case. I have lived In Dacca and Cal-
cutta. I bad a store in Calcutta, and kept a saddle or two,
and
.a few ueMul.articlea.
. .

The Lord Chief Justice said he could not recommend the
payment of this witness'a expenses, because he had siren •
falae addreas.
Henry Welsh : I am a bricklayer, residing at elderitoc.
knew Heger Charles lichborne from 1844 to 1665—up to the
time he belt Tichborne. I did not hear of his leaving Eng-
land. I was employed many years on the Tlchborne estat,
I eaw him once on the chapel rot whet I was repairing It.
I can't give the date He chopped the lead gutter with my
hammer. I met the defendant at Alresford after his return.
I asked him if he remembered using my hammer. He
said, Yes, he chopped lead with it ts make bullets '" His
hair war dark browu, lie twit Med his eyebrows. Ile was •
mischievous young ra cal. (Laughter.) He WU fond of •
game, and eomett Ines had • freak with the workmen. I have
heard the defendant speak once since ins return to England.
I hsve no doubt bob, Steger Charles I ichbonte.

By the Dsrd Chief Justice I don't ikelleVo I mettlontd to
any one annul the duped gutter. I wai no the rod &lone at
the time.

The Court again akijourned.

The further hearing of the ease was resumed on
Wedneeday morning, the eighty-se=ts day.
Ann Welsh, wife of Henry Welsh, of Cheriton, maw : I
lived at Tichborne eight years, and CIA,. Mon abut twelve.
My first husband was Watism Norris, house carpenter at
Tlchborne House. I knew Itcger lharles lichborne well I
did neetlew3rk at lichbarne House, and I was frequently
there. The defendant 1 Boger Charles Tichborne. I my
bon at Alresfori 'Omits five or slit years ago in Mr. Adams's
oft IWM sent for. I knew him when Is tw him I sew
I, ni a 5,e,..1 time on SI .n lay last. lam still of o,flut in
toot hots Itugcr flab fru:.

t'ross.easultned by Mr. ilswins : I think It w s in the
summer b tore he finally left that I last saw hi U My hus-
band li si his situation st Tichborne

Mr Hawkins He went Into the army In 1,40, and you
coverages him again until flee or six year. ago?
With.,.: Yes. illlywhite„ a one armed man was at
Adam..; the Nobles, husband and wife; Mil lionsbridge,
Tom Cole, ands blind man named Hopwood were also present.
We were all there to recognise the defendwit. Mr. Adams
took down my statement in writing before the defendant came
in, and before I had seen him. I have a distinct recollection
that! did not sign a paper, The document produced has
my signature to it, but I have no me dloction of having
signed It The second document produced has my signa-
ture (both were dated lat July, 1087, and were duplicates
for the Chancery suit). I have no recollection when or
where I signed them. I had forgotten all about it. As the
defendant was entering the room, Mr Adams said, "Who',
that gentleman / " and I replied, "B. mar Tichborue " I had
no hesitation about it. He so resemble. Roger that I should
have known him in the street. My memory was better in
July, 1067, than it is now. It was alwitys good till lately—
Muse my Illness.
- - -• • • - •• ^

The Lord Chief Justice Had your husband previously
seen the defendant
Witness: I believe not. If he bad said he Saw him In
March I shuald have believed him. My husband might
have told me as early as April that he bad seen the de-
fendant, and that he was very stoat. I den't remember
any conversation with him about the defendant between
April and July.
Kt-examined . I have been very 11l lately, and shade
then my memory has not been so good as it was for-
merly. My hiutiamtwas In the room when I gave my
statement
. . . .

-----
By the Lord Chief Justice I did not tell Mr. Adams how
many times Roger came to my house for nalla and screws—
not more than twice certainly.
The Lord ettlet Justice • Because she Is made in the affi-
davit to say that he came in quently for nails -ths,t's how
It U magnified and then sworn so.
Henry Welsh (recalled and examined by Mr. Serjeant
Parry) said: I did not see the defendant at bir. Adam's when
I was there with my wile. We were not In the room to-
gether. If we went Into the room together lam certain we
did not come out togetinr. (Laughter). I made an affidavit,
but the was not present, and the defendant was not In the
room. The affilarit wan read over to me before I signed and
swore it. I state in which that I Bret saw the defends/,t on
the Iffird March. 1867, at the Swan. I won't say it was
correct, My affidavit states that the defendant told me that
he knew my wife, and that he had been to her shop Worse of
tune. to buy nails, screws and hooks. I siiid he had been
there frequebtly..„..— . . .