The Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1860-05-21 00:00:00

LIVERPOOL CHAMBER OF COMMERCE

SPECIAL MEETING. On; Saiurda at noon, a special meeting of the
Chamber of Commerce was held in their rooms, in

Exchange-buildings, for the following objects :—" To
consider the motion, of which notice has been given in
the House of Lords by Lord Monteagle, for the
rejection_of the bill repealing the excise duty on paper ;
and to consider the question of the appointment of a
floating Coma' for the East Coast of Africa. There
was a numerous attendance. Mr. Tomlinson, the
president, occupied the chair; and amongst the othei
gentlemen present. we observed—Messrs. Clint, Made,
Holland, Bramley-Moore, Sheil, i Fnrivoodo
M•CoNuodale, Bond, Spence, Highain, Sh.allefess;
Darsic, Gladstone, Cooke; Wilson, and Lamont:
The CITAIRAN said they hid 'icon called 'together in
consequence'of a requisition, iiiieh,h6 Called upon the
secretary to read. This was done with reference to the,
latter subject. The Chairman then said 44 Tiad ,a
letter; froth Mr. MTh:aid, whiCh would have to be Gen.-,
siderM. Mr. M'Clond, he stated, had called upon him
several times, and he had several interviews with him.

It sedmed that he had been very active on the African
coast in. the prefefition of the'. slave trade.. Mr. Wm.
Brown had palled upon him in' 'his favour, and Mr.
John Cropper;' and those; gentlemen urged the Chamber
strongly to support his clainnt • It ryas riot Usual for

the Chamber to take up such cinestieps immediately;
bat if they did not object; it might Tie referred to ibd
council to consider, and take action up'on it. ge,
simply brought it before the meeting that it mighi liNve
a little more weight than it otherwise would have.

•
It teas agreed to refer the letter to the Communica-
,
ions Committee..

TIIE ROUSE OF LORDS AND THE PAPER DUTY

The CHAIRMAN said the next subject for consideration
was the motion of which notice had been given by Lord
Montcagle, fur the
.rejection,of the bill repealing the
excise duty on paper. This question was one that got
on rather tender groundS, and one which," according to
his notion of the: constitution of the Chamber of Com-
merce, would require to be treated very carefully; and
he toped, in discussing it, that they would keep in view'
that the Chamberof Commerce. as instituted for purely
commercial purposes; and "all political questions, all
questions of party politics, general or local," were
excluded. He hoped that the- subject would be epn;l
iidered purely in a commercial point of view. They
were justiPecl, however, in going into the question.
They would remember that at the last meeting they had
petitioned the House of Commons, approving generally
of the treaty of commerce and the budget, and the peti-
tion had these words in and 'aim; the suppression
of the excise tax on paper, as ri continued recognition
of those principles of free trade 'to Which the general
prosperity of the country is so largely-indebted!' So that
the question might fairly be considered'by the Chamber,
Mr. CHRISTOPHER B!JSHELL begged to subet 60,
the clause which the chairman had read did not in day
way authorise that Chamber to consider this question;
• and althOugh he had properly remsrked it must be

considered only in its commercial bearings, he warned
the members that they were departing from the strict
duties which belonged to them as a Chamber of Com-
mere. Those who had watched his course during the
period he had held office as president would know that
he was perfectly consistent in the view which he now
took. It was always his endeavour, when he had power.
or influence, to guard the Chamber from entering upon -
any matters which might be called in question—or upon
which there could be any doubt of their right to take
up. Now the Chamber had very properly taken up the
paper duty while it was a question affecting the commerce
of the country. The lower house had passed a measure
repealing the excise duty on paper. The matter had novi
become a great constitutional question. It was ne
longer a commercial question ; it was a question between
the two Houses of Parliament—the House of Commons
and the Peers. Now he really did not think they were
justified—at all events in that stage of the proceedings—
in interfering with this question farther; save that it
might be just and right humbly to petition the Peers to
pass this as a meesuroef great commercial importance,
Out of doors, he could understand, the people had the
right to deal with it as a constitutional' question; to
petition or take any course, they might see fit. He was
not going into the merits of the question at all but he
believed the repeal of the excise duty on paper was a
vexed question : he should not allude to it further than
that, because he had no desire to lead to further discus-
sion upon it. What he wished to say was, that
thought it was no longer within the province of that
Chamber, as a Chamber of Commerce. Having dealt
with this question as a commercial question,.and carried
it up to that point, they had ne longer any right to deal
with it; and to attempt to do so would lead to difficulty
and danger.
The CHALRMAN 'presumed Mr. Bushell spoke to•
question of order ?
Mr. BUSHELL said he did. Seeing that they lived
upon a breath—that they represented the great commer-
cial interests of the country—seeing that a great differ-
ence of opinion existed as to the time this tax should be
repealed—and seeing also that it had resolved itself into,
a great constitutional question, he hoped they would net
themselves in difficulty and danger by touching'
it further.
Mr. HOLLAND said Mr. Bushell having raised a ques-
tion of order,•he should wish to say a few words upon
that subject. He was sure that Mr. Bushell had taken
no more credit than he was entitled to for having on
every occasion when he presided there or had been
present at the meetings, abstained from touching
upon topics which, by the constitution of the Chamber,.
they were,precluded from touching upon. He thought,
likewise, they might claim credit to every member of
Chamber for having adhered, without exception, to
that very good and salutary rule. He (Mr. Holland)
would be the last .man on the present occasion to see
that rule departed from in the slightest degree. Feeling
that the Chamber depended Upon public opinion for its
weight and importance—that public opinion attributed
to it perfect impartiality and freedom from all political
or party bias,—he felt the great importance of their'
adhering most rigidly to that rule. If ho thought for
one moment that taking up the question which
they were now requested to take up NV is likely to'
involve them in anything like a political discussion',
he for one should be the very Jest man to advocate it;
'but, having had a very short time to consider hew far
it was practicable, as he had only heard of the requisition
yesterday—he still thought they might meet and discuss.
.this question purely in a commercial and fiscal sense.
' without at' all trenehing upon grounds of a political
'kind, and within -a very limited circle of argument they
could arrive at
.a mere dry affirmation of what, on the
former occasion, they did affirm. Trusting they could
,do that, and feeling they' could do that, and being sale
no gentleman would go beyond that sphere of argument.
•.and being essentially a body bound to give expression
upon a question which he deemed a commercial ques-
tion—he trusted that as nquestion of order they should
.
not be excluded from going into it on the progeny
occasion.
The CMAIRMAN—We have had now the advice of
two of our ex-presidents. I think they hive sutlicienLlT,
introduced the subject, if Mr. Bushell thinks We
carefully go into the question.
Mr. BUSHELL thought he was perhaps entitled to It
reply. might
Mr. R. A. Kama said upon this subject a deal weal,
be Said ; shouldbe sorry to detain the Chamherrtifely
saying very much then, but he sympathised en,,n of
with the view of Mr. Bushell that the introduett,hou.
party politics should always be carefully
bad no wish to see a change of ministry • in the re—
Punfor-
elouded state of Europe nothing could 'be more _ s
turiate. On the other hand they had no wish to sele,
conflict between the two branches of the legislature,4t.
House of Commons and the House of Lords. .
would be to be deplored. Now, he did not opt
ruts p
rt
avoided.
propose, but to submit a motion which he would e P
if any other gentleman thought it would clear away the.
difficulties. The motion was this ,_r?
The Criainaraar—Does it affect the question of oraeo _
Mr. MACFIE said it went beyond that. The motoin7.
was, "That this Chamber having, according to itsnes
or
stitution, hitherto avoided interfering with questioeseul
party politics, resolves to do no more. on. the
t pr
apetr
occasion thau express its readiness to maintain the
duty—a tax it hoped to enjoy ex.einp.tstalleve
paisentt
the present state of Continental po
financial)y advisable to retain
away, provided. the Governmebntelltptleivnekr
iotf vrtheuipdurbse:e
strings to that extent." (" Oh!.
i could not put that
The CHAIRMAN—Excuse_
mew' speaking to a question.
motion at present. W
1::d that was the course I
of
ikoirrd.erif
,bticiFt
IyEtlarme
after the question of
egroeeilnaygresinitO the whole question.
thought would enable
othrdoeurghwtasoudgishptosteod
of.bo aTdobpattedi
us to be unanimous. u '
n quite concurred with Air:
BushelMr.o .a
sE"tortAthwameN xlsc'jusio'nof party politics from the
chamber. He had sat under Mr. Bushell for two years,
and was sure he had had
._a sinecure in keeping out such
o
potlritoissueforo-ttrnth,eacaor
hetet
truNo sted, attempt
wwaosulidnade to
and
In
here was a question not affecting party politics at all.
They did not care, as a chamber, who was premier--
Wing, Tory, or Radical, or leho constituted the-Ministry;
but here was a great constitutional question before thent•
affecting the taxation of the country, upon a measure
which they had
_pronounced upon at their last spe
H cial'
meeting. The House of Commons which was ! a
he!
Only body which could repeal the tax for 10'c--
they petitioned, had repealed it. The questio
had, gone to the Lords, and they threatened to refuse
the 'emission of the • tax. • That would be virtually
to .keep on a tax against the consent, nay, against. th.
protest, of the House of Commons ; and he must sa4
looking at the bearings of the question—seeing hew !ile
power of the Lords might be brought to bear upon I
trade and commerce of the country, which was the grdid
n'
source of our taxatian—be thought, if that Chamber
di
not, at this early hour, and without reference to Pl'
express an emphatic opinion upon the subject theY
would be wanting in their duty.
aadMwr.baCterad
beenwas siledlinbeydmtro. angralevebnwsitihial‘dlre.on7;;_e4
rather than altered, his views. Mr. Rawlins
a)
them into a question of prerogative. He (3ir.uit"
was himself favourable to the repeal of the excise_„dug
on paper, as of all other excise duties, which he th :grit"
were a great hindrance to business and should be
the
wmeolvfaedre;
obfutthkeecshpaomkebenr now in
Cinontihmeeirnetee.resut aendbafdorivtlht:
nessed with pleasure the progress of the Chamber--'ha
had seen it the means of introducing maay reforms'
he Customs ; and he Ooald be sorry to see