The Stourbridge Observer, Cradley Heath, Halesowen & District Chronicle.
Stourbridge, West Midlands, England, 1875-04-03 00:00:00

•

STOTTRIEIRIDGE OBSEPVER.

VESTRY MEETING AT AMBLECOTE.

The annual Vestry Meeting for this parish was
held in the school-room at Coalbournbrook, on
on Wednesday morning last. The parishioners
Erst assembled at the vestry, but this was too
small to accommodate them, and the Rev. J. S.
130 l dero accordingly adjourned the meeting to the
school above-mentioned. The chair was taken by
the Vicar, and there were also present Messrs.
Davis and Corbett (the retiring churchwardens),
C. Webb, Cooper, Fisher, and several other influ-
ential Inrishioners. There were also three ladies
present one of whom (a Mrs. Parrish) at least, ex-
ercised her right of voting.
Mr. Corbett said they had unfortunately forgot-
ten to bring the notice calling the meeting, and
they should have to send for it.

The Chairman said he was very glad there was
at last some interest being taken In the church.
At other meetings which had previously been held
they had to go and dram up the neighbourhoodl to
get a sufficient number to pass the accounts. The
first business was the auditing of the accounts,
Mr. Corbett then said there was one question he
should like to ask, and that was—were there any
persons there NN ho were not parishioners ?
The Chairman: Ratepayers.
Mr. Corbitt: Parishioners.
The Chairman: Ratepayers.
Mr. Corbett: Ratepayers and parishioners.
One gentleman said he was a ratepayer, but not
a parishioner. It was, however, admitted that this
was sufficient qualification. It was then stated
that there was no one present besides ratepayers
and parishioners, and

-
The Chairman, and Messrs. Corbett and Fisher
then went through the accounts.
The notice calling the meeting was then read,
and it was to the effect that the meeting was con-
vened for the purpose of passing the churchwar-
den's accounts for the past year, electing church-
wardens for the ensuing year, "and for the tran-
saction of any other business." The notice was
signed " John -Davis and William Corbett, church-
wardens," but it was not dated.
From the statement of Mr. Corbett it appeared
that the amonnt to the credit account was about
whilst that to the debtor account was £4l;
there being thus a deficiency of £36, for which
Mr. Corbett stated neither the incoming or out-
going churchwardens would be responsible. The
deficiency arose in this vvey. For the last two
years the churchwardens had not been able to keep
out of debt, on account of the falling off in the
subscriptions. For instance, Mr. Foster had with-
drawn his subscription of £.20 a year, and several
other annual subscribers had withdrawn theirs also,
and he believed that others would adopt the same
course during the present year. During the past
year £l.l 193 had been received in subscriptions
with which he had defrayed the church expenses
as far as it would go. He (Mr.
‘Vorbett) was now
under a summons in the County Court for the
organist's salary; but he did not believe he was
responsible.
Mr. Cooper asked if he was in order in asking
whether it was their business to raise that £36.
The Chairman said he was not in order.
Mr. Cooper then wished to know whether he was
in order in asking how the amount to meet the
deficiency would be raised.
The Chairman said he was out of place in men-
tioning it,
Mr. Corbett said with reference to the organist's
salary, with the small sum he had in hand he
could not pay him. He had paid him nr•arly the
fifth of the whole sum he had received, and hehad
divided the remainder as well as he could.
After a short disussion, Mr. Charles Webb moved
"That the passing of the accounts be allowed,
subject to the offertory book being checked off."
This was seconded.
The Chairman asked if any gentleman had any
remark to make upon this motion, or whether there
was any other motion to be brought before the
meeting with regard to the passing af the ac-
counts. He reminded the meeting that by carry-
ing the resolution they would not bind themselves
to provide the deficiency, or anything of that kind.
The motion was simply to pass the accounts as
they found them.
A gentleman (whose name we do not know) re-
marked that the deficiency ought to be accounted
for in the books.

Mr. Cooper said he had never heard of such a
thing. He had never known any accounts • owing
Lo be entered in :he books.
Mr. Gething asked if the accounts were not in-
complete without the statement of the liabilities
accompanied them.
Mr. Cooper asked if he could give him a prece-
dent of it having been done.
Mr. Gething could not.
Mr. Cooper said that when he took office there
were a few unpaid accounts handed over to him
in the usual way, without being entered in the
book as liabilities. They could not always ascer-
tain exactly what was owing. There were gas
accounts and other things which they had no
means of ascertaining about at present.
Mr. Corbett corroburated this, and said it was
possible there were other amounts owing, besides
those he had men I ioned.
No amendment having been proposed, the mo-
tion for passing the accounts was put to the meet-
ing, and carried.
The Chairman said the next business would be Ito appoint churchwardens. He nominated as
Vicar's Warden, Mr. Johnson.
Mr. Johnson said he should not be responsibli
for any debts that were incurred up to that pre-
sent time.
He was assured that he would not be held res-
ponsible for them.
Mr. Johnson then proposed that Mr. Richard
Bourne be Parish Warden for the ensuing year.
Mr. Mobberley proposed that Mr. Corbett be re-
elected Parish Warden.
This was seconded by Mr. Charles Moody.
The Chairman here remarked that a church-
warden's duty, as defined by Mr. Justice Denman,
was one of observation, and he had nothing to do
with the control whatever. And if the person who
held the office did his duty as churchwarden he
.uust attend his church. He could not properly
do his duty by observing unless he attended the
hurch, and to say that he could was simply an
absurdity. Personally, he had no objection to Mr.
Corbett. Personally they were good friends; but
air. Corbett did not attend the church, and possibly
did not intend to do so.
Mr. Corbett: That depends upon circumstances.
The Chairman: That's not it. You don't attend
church and you can't attend to your duties pro-
perly.
Mr. Corbett: That depends upon circumstances.
The Chairman went on to say that those who
did not attend and subscribe to the offertories had
nothing whatever to do with the expenditure of
the money. The money collected in the church
was entirely under the conteol of the vicar and
the churchwardens. If people chose to give sub-
scriptions they might have control over them, and
a:A under any other circumstances.
Mr. Cooper said he begged to differ from the
Chairman, who had stated that churchwardens
had no control. They had great control. He was
perfectly convinced they had control.
The Chairman contended that they had no con-
trol over anything financial. Their office was
simply one of observation. Judge Denman had
said so.
Mr. Cooper then said the Chairman had stated
no one had a right to the expenditure of the money
that was from the offertory. How did he know
who gave in the offertory.
The Chairman said that was nothing to do with
it.
Mr. Davis: I think it is a very pertinent ques-
tion

Mr. Gething asked if the churchwarden's duty
was confined to observation, and he found some-
thing wrong, what was his duty then,
The Chairman: It is his duty to report to the
ordinary.
Mr. Gething : And nothing else?
The Chairman: No, he has no power to alter, or
anything else.
The motion for the election of Parish Warden
was then put, and 15 voted for Mr. Bourne and 22
for Mr. Corbett.

The Chairman said Mr. Corbett was, appointed
People's Warden, unless anyone liked to go any
further in the matter. Of course it was open to
any ratepayer to demand a poll if he chose to do
so. If he might be allowed to make an observa-
tion, he thought a poll was very undesirable--
(hear, hear). After waiting a short time, he de-
clared Mr. Johnson and Mr. Corbett to be the duly
elected churchwardens for the ensuing year—(ap-
plause)!_

- The Chairman said there was a sort of general
term at the end of the notice which he had not
been consulted about, and it was therefore optional
with him whether he allowed it to come forward or
not. Nothing could be brought on unless he had
been consulted 'about it; but he did not wish to
throw any obstacles in the way. He would ask
them what this particular business was?
Mr. Corbett said there was nothing particular;
the words "and the transaction of any other busi-
ness," were simply put in the notice because it was
usual to have something of the kind, and to enable
the meeting, in case anything should crop up, to
deal with it.
The Chairman asked if there was any other
business. Upon this
Mr. Fisher proposed "That the Sunday evening
offertory be continued as previously, and that the
proceeds be applied to defray church expenses, as
heretofori=z."

This was seconded. by Mr. Charles Webb.
The Chairman said the meeting had nothing to
do with it. No offertory could be collected in the

church over his own. However, he would allow
the motion to be entered on the minutes.
The motion was then read over preparatory to
being put to the meeting.
The Chaiiman said he thought he should refuse
to put it. _

kr. Corbet did not see how he could do that, as
chairman of that meeting. He should like to ask
the Vicar how the expenses for next year were
going to be met. Taking the present state of
things into consideration, he wished to know what
was his idea as to how the expenses were going to
be paid?

The Chairman declined to say,
Mr. Corbett took up a book and said
he would read a case bearing upon the subject of
the disposal of offertories to the chairman.
The Chairman: You are quite out of order; you
are not chairman.

Mr Corbett: I have a right. A thing like this
has been done before.

The Chairman: My reason is this, that the
churchwardens and the rector can arrange that
matter between them. There are a great many
people here who do not come to church, and there-
fore do not give anything, and they have nothing
to do with it.

Mr. Cooper (to the Chairman) : Begging your
pardon, how do you know they don't give
The Chairman said he judged from their non-
attendance at church.

Mr. Corbett said a motion had been made by one
of the ratepayers, and wished to know if they were
to go on quibbling all day.
_ _ _ _

The ChLrman i:emindea them that he had given
up pew rents, and therefore requiredjthe offertory
for himself.

Mr. Corbett: You gave them up on your own
responsibility, and I don't see why you should give
up what was paid by everybody, and without any
grumbling.

- The Chairman: Of course, I have given up pew
rents, and I claim the offertory.
Mr. Davis: Then what is to pay the expenses ?
The Chairman said he was willing to put the
morning and evening offertories together, and for
him to take half, and the other half to be devoted
to the poor.

Mr. Corbett said he always understood that the
sacramental offertory was for the poor.
Mr. Davis: It strikes me, Mr. Boldero, you don't
want churchwardens at all. 'you will do all the
work yourself.
_ _ . . . _

Mr.-Corbett : What is the use of churchwarden
if they can't handle the money.
The Chairman: What I object to is a hard and
fast line. •

- Mr Corbett: This matter is not finished yet, and
if the chairman won't put it to the meeting I

The Chairman: You will be out of order.
Mr. Corbett: Then I don't care; I shall put it
if you don't.
The Chairman said he would adjourn the meet-
ing if he attempted to do so.
Mr. Gething suggested that if the meeting had
no control over the money, a resolution could do
no harm. It would only be an expression of
opinion from the meeting.
Mr. Johnson said he should move an amendment
to Mr. Fisher's proposition, to the effect that the
matter be left in the hands of the churchwardens
and the minister.

Mr. Cooper remarked that that was leaving
where it was now.

Mr. Squires seconded the amendment.
. . . _ _

The Chairman said it is distinctly stated in the
Prayer Book that the offertories were to be dis-
posed of as the incumbent (or minister) and
churchwardens should agree. That applied to the
sacramental offertories, as there were no others in
those days. With reference to Mr. Fisher's motion,
if he put it to the meeting he must do it under the
protest that it be subject to its legality.
Mr. Fisher: The law will.protect itself.
Mr. Corbett said he should read a little work as
to the law on the point, as laid down by a Gray's
Inn, barrister. He stated that in cases where a
church rate could not be obtained, the deficiency
would have to be made good by offertories and
subscriptions.
He was told by Mr. Cooper and others that that
did not apply in the present instance.
Mr. Corbett said he did not understand Mr.
Boldero saying he would put the motion under
protest. If it was illegal it would fall to the
ground.
A desultory conversation ensued, as to the dis-
posal of the offertery, when
Mr. Cooper said: Of course, Mr. Boldero wants
it himself. _ _

The Chairman: Because I have given up pew
rents, which had brought in ..£BO a-year, and I
think I have a right to theevening offertory which
is given by the congregation for me.
Mr. Corbett contended that he had no right to
them.
Mr. Davis: Why so many alterations.
A Voice: Because it is necessary to have altera-
tions. There are alterations in you, Mr. Davis;
you are not so young as you used to be.
The Chairman said there was a case which had
been tried in Court, and it was decided that the
sums collected in the offertory might be brought
to the vicar, and he and the churchwardens might
apply them to any purposes they deemed fit!
Mr. Corbett said that had nothing to do with the
subject under discussion.
The Chairman (to Mr. Corbett) : Do you intend
to come to church?
Mr. Corbett: That question I shall answer in
the same way that you did. I decline to answer
it.

The Chairman: Then I won't consent to one
farthing of the money of the church going into
your hands.
Mr. Davis: You want to pocket all the money
yourself.
The Chairman said he had given up the pew
rents and sacrificed £BO a year, and thought he had
a claim on the offertories. - -

_
Mr. Corbett contended that the evening offerto-
ries were for the churchwardens' use.
Mr. Fisher said the church expenses would hive
to be met, but he did not know what source they
would come from.

_
The Chairman said he was perfectly willing to
put the offertories into a lump, morning and even-
ing., and he would takeihalf. He thought it was
only fair if his congregation chose to support him
they had a right to do so. The working classes
were all willing to support the church and to sup-
port the minister. But they could not come in the
morning; they came in the evening. He then re-
peated his offer to take half the pew rents. - -

Mr. Fisher objected there was such a great defi-
ciency that he thought the whole of the offertories
ought to be applied to defraying the church ex-
penses.

- Mr. Davis said he thought Mr. Boldero had
stated that he knew how the church expenses would
be met. He should like to know how.
The Chairman stated that he thought if half the
offertories were devoted to that purpose that would
be sufficient for the purpose. The offertories last
year had beemover £lOO.
Mr. Corbett complained of the alterations that
were being made by the Vicar, and said the latter
had written a letter to him on the 30th December,
stating that he should have the offertory in the
evening, and should not disturb the existing ar-
rangements.

The Chairman said that was provisional until
Mr. Corbett was out of office.
Some complaints were made as to the time at
which the meeting was called, which was said to
be very inconvenient to the working classes; and
it was alleged that it was done purposely to suit a
select few. Mr. Cooper reminded them that the
day was the same as heretofore, and it had not
been altered for some:years.
Mr. Davis said the question was, was the motion
to be put to the meeting.
The Chairman asked if it was fair that those
who did not attend the church should have the
spending ot the money—(cries of "Hear, hear.")
Mr. Cooper retorted: Is it fair that we should
be driven away from our church?
Mr. Corbett also sppke to the same effect.
The Chairman said it was true that Mr. Corbett
had attended church, but he could not say that he
had ever done so very regularly.
Mr. Corbett replied that his subscriptions had
been paid regularly.
The discussion as to the division of the offerto-
ries, and the chairman said the great bulk of the
congregation came in the evening.
Mr. Fisher: I am afraid there is no very great
bulk at all.
The Chairman: You have not been very lately.
Alter some further discussion, the Chairman said
subject to an appeal to the bishop he would put the
motion and the amendment to the meeting. He
then put the amendment, and 14 voted for it. The
majority,Th eChaimrmoarne rtehmaanrksedevetnhaotf iwt
original motion was then put, and 21 voted for it.
hwoasm ncealv.rieredcolit3trly a.
r-
buted a farthing to the church.
This was combatted by Mr. Corbett and others,
and the Chairman having again stated that he
should appeal to the bishop as to the disposal of
the offerthries, the meeting terminated.

VESTRY MEETING AT OLDSWINFORD.
The annual vestry meeting at Oldswinford
Church was held on Tuesday morning; the curate,
the Rev. F. G. Adley, presiding. Unusual interest
appeared to be excited in the proceedings, and the
uailers of the villiage showed up in unwonted
numbers, the vestry and the aisle outside being
crowded.
The Chairman said the meeting was calledto elect
fit and proper persons to fill the office of Church.
wardens and to pass the accounts of the retireuag

wardens. He believed Mr. 3a.insborougliHarward
would stand again.
Mr. Prescott said Mr. Harward was never elected
churchwarden, as the minutes would show.
The Chairman said that meeting was not called
to discuss whether Mr. Harward was legally
churchwarden last year, but to elect churchwardens
for the year ensuing. and, on behalf of the rector
be nominated Mr.'harward as his warden.
Several persons immediately proposed Mr. Pres-
cott as people's warden.
Mr. W. B. Collis proposed Mr. C. King (the retir-
ing people's warden) as warden for the year.
Mr, Prescott: I shall ask that this meeting be
adjourned to the school room.

Mr. Collis: I move that it be not adjourned.
Mr. Prescoott said if gentlemen were not de-
sirous of having a hole-and-corner meeting, they
would not object to the adjournment.
After some confusion, the question as to the
adjournment fell through, and Mr. T. Cook sec-
onded Mr. King as people's warden. .
Mr. James Cox moved, and Mr. Howell seconded
Mr. Prescott.

Mr. Collis said he objected to the nomination of
anyone not an inhabtant of Oldswinford.
Mr. Prescott said his proposer and seconder were
inhabitants and ratepayers, and he made some
remark across the table to Mr. Collis, which was
not audible.

Mr. Collis: If you don't conduct yourself with
propriety, I Prescott: Will you?
Mr. Collis: I will.

Mr. Prescott: Try it on.
The Chairman put the propositions before the
meeting, and the supporters of Mr. Prescott out-
numbering the others, he said the show of hands
was in Mr. Prescott's favour, but he could not
pronounce whether all those present were entitled
to vote.

Mr. Prescott said they were, and he added: You
gentlemen won't be allowed to ride rough-shod
over the parish.
The Chairman said it was a question whether
anyone present would demand a poll.
Mr. Prescott said he should carry it if it came
to a poll.

Tlie Chairman said any ratepayer dissatisfied
with the decision could demand one. Ile did not
know whether all those present paid rates. (A
voice: "If we didn't pay, Mr. Adley would not pay
for us ; and another voice: "What does he make
that remark for ?") The Chairman intimated that
Mr. Harward would not now be likely to act as
rector's warden.

Mr. Prescott said the chairman, on behalf of the
rector, nominated Mr. Harward; and then, when
the other side were defeated as to the people's
warden, he said Mr. Harward would not act.
The Sexton reminded Mr. Prescott thane would
not act on one occasion when elected.
Mr. Prescott said he could give the reason for
that, if necessary. The Chairman again reminded
the meeting that a poll might be demanded, and
this led to a number of hostile remarks. Mr.
Prescott said the real secret was that unless Messrs.
King and Harward got in they could not carry out
their private arrangements.
Mr. King said he and Mr. Harward, as church-
wardens, had nothing to do with the Burial Board
question. and the Chairman also made some obser-
vations to the same effect, and remarked on the
desirability of having two. churchwardens that
would run together, and not two thik .would not
run at all. Just let them listen to reason. (" We
have not, had much reason.") They. were there
under a wrong impression, and thought that meet-
ing had to do with the Burial Board question.
(Voices: "Nothing of the kind. The curate takes
us to be greater fools than we are.")
After some further discussion and noisy inter-
ruption, the Chairman said that as no one
demanded a poll, they would proceed to pass the
accounts. These were read over, and on the
motion of Mr. Prescott, seconded by Mr. J. Jones
were passed.
_

The- Chairman said if Mr. Harward, as heunder-
stood the ease, would not stand, there must be a
subsequent meeting to appoint the rector's church
warden. Whosoever was appointed was bound to
stand, but Mr. Harward, ab a solicitor, could
decline.

Mr. Collis said they wanted everything done de-
cently and in proper order, and whether Mr. Pres-
cott or anyone else was churchwarden, he hoped
that would always be the case. (ilear, hear.

THE CHARGE OF CIITTINGAND WO U NDING

AT THE LYE.

At the Petty Sessions, yesterday, before Colonel
Fletcher and Mr. J. B. Cochraue, William Wooldridge
pin maker, William Wooldridge, jun., anvil maker,
James Brettle, tailor, and William Forrest, vice
maker, were charged with unlawfully cutting and
wounding Samuel Wyatt, Joseph 13rettle, and James
Newsy. Mr. Addison appeared to prosecute. Mr.
Underhill (instructed by Mr. G. Perry), appeared for
William Wooldridge, jun. Mr. Stokes, for William
Wooldridge, sen., Mr. Wall, for William Forrest,
and Mr. Waldron for James Brettlo. Mr. Addison
said the case was likely to last many hours, and
suggested to the bench that a special day be fixed to
take it. After some conversation, the bench decided
to take it on Saturday, the 10th inst. William
Wooldridge, was again bailed out, himself in £5OO,
and two surities in £250, each. The other three
were bailed—themselves in £2OO, and four surities
in .250 each to appear on that date;
CHARGE AGAINST A LICENSED VICTUALLER. John
Hardy, landlord of the Lyttelton Arms Inn, Bagley, was
summoned by Superintendent Freeman for keeping his
house open for the sale of ale, on the 21st ult, during
prohibited hours. Mr. Stokes defended. Police-sergeant
Rea said that on the above date about five o'clock, he
visited the defendant's house, in company with
another officer. Went into the tap-room and saw a num-
ber of persons there. drinking. Several of them were
from the Lye Waste and Lower Lye. He took three of
them to the defendant and Miss. Hardy, and told them
they lived, within three miles. Mr. Hardy said they told
him they were travellers, and resided more than three
miles away. There were between 60 and 60 persons in
the room, and not a respectable person amongst them.—
Superintendent Freeman proved that be had measured
the district from where several of the persons lived, and
found it was not three miles. On cross-examination, Mr.
Freeman said he commenced to measure at eight o'clock
at night, but he had a lamp with him, and it was a light
night.—Mr. Stokes addressed the Benah for the defence,
and said it had been proved that some parts of the Lye
were more than three miles away, and defendant asked
the parties if they were travellers, and they said they
were, and in filling them ale he was acting bona fide.—
Misi Hardy proved that she was in charge of the house
on that date, and when the persons came for admittance.
She asked them all if they had come over three miles.
They said they had. Three et the melt were brought to
her by Ray. 'They said they canio from the Lye Waste.
—John Haray gave corroborative evidence' and said that
he asked hay if they were to be supplied. He said. "Do
as you like-" Had always been in the habit of supplying
persons from the Lye, believing it was over three miles.
Cross-i xatniued : Have never been cautioned by Police.
constable Tomlineinot to supply persons with ale who had
oome from the Lye Waste.—Miss Hardy was re-called,
and swore she had never sent a letter te Mr. Freeman, in
aliswer to the message.—The Bench retir4d to consider
their verdict. On returning into Coat t, Colonel Fletcher
said they had some difficulty in coming to a decision. A
similar case was now pending before the Queen's Bench,
and should adjourn the case for a mouth. In the mean-
time they cautioned defendant against selling ale to per-
sons flora the Lye Waste, as a good part of the Lye
Waste was proved not to be three miles from defendant's
house.

CAUTION TO PIG DEALERS. David Humphries, of
Halesowen, was charged with exposing in Stourbridge
Market, on the 18th inataat, two pigs which were affected
with foot sad mouth disease. The ease was p o el, and
defendant was fined 20s and costs.

THE QUESTION 01' TRAVILLNRB.—ThOrnaII Tompkins,
landlord of the Prince of Wales, Hagley, was charged
with having his house open during prohibited hours, on
the 21st u t. P S. Rea visited the house st 4 30, snd f uid
two men in the kitchen. They came from the Lye. After
nearing further evidence, this case was adjourned for a
mouth.

Assauur ON THE POLICE. - David Pritchard, cf The
Lye, was sentenced to three months' hard labour for as-
saulting Police-constable Heath.—Frederick Little was
fined Is and costs for using obscene language in High-st.,
on the 30th tilt.

ATTENDANCE OF GUARDIANS.—The following is the
number of attendance of Guardians during the year :
Baker, E ; Wood, 48; Granger, 47; Guest, 47; Homer,
47; Hall, 46; Billingham, H. 46; Rollingson, I. 43;
Rhodes, 43 ;Fiddiau, 43; Thompson, 40; Biilingham, I.
28 ; Giles, 28; Haskew, 28; Perkes, 21; Brooks, 19;
Williams, 19 ; Raybould, 17 ; Rollieson, W. 16 ; Oliver,
15 ; Homes, 13; Phillips, 11; Wright, 9 ; Pearsall, 8 ;
Foley, J. 3 ; Weston, 3 ; White, 2; pargeter, P. 1 ;
Pargeter, T. H. 0;