The Stourbridge Observer, Cradley Heath, Halesowen & District Chronicle.
Stourbridge, West Midlands, England, 1872-06-08 00:00:00

THE WORKING CLASSES AND THE
LICENSING BILL.

On Saturday a deputatien, made up of seventy-eight
working men, representing forty-three different trades,
hail a hour's interview with the Earl of Kimberley, at
the Colonial office, respecting the Licensing Bill which
haa been introduced into Parliament by the Govern-
went. The deputation were introduced by Mr.
NPArthur, M.P. The various arguments put for-
ward are embodied in the following extracts from a
mem rial which was read to the Earl of Kimberley by
Mr. Pearson :
" That it is within the knowledge of your memorialists that
a very deep and extensive desire exists among working men
of orderly habits and sober lives-in favour of ibortel,ing the
hours during which puhlic-hou- es and beer-shops are now
allowed to be open both on Sundays and week day a That the
long, and especially tie late, boors during which the sale of
liqu-re is permitted Is a powet tut temptation t,• their exce-sive
use, and encourages that waste of means anal neglect of home
and personal cultur- from which so many families suffer,
and by which every form of social evil is more or less
nourished and th public rates needlessly increaaed 1h at saber
and industrious working men and their families are seriously .
affected by the common intemperance and depravity arising
oil of the unsatisfactory management of public-houses and
the exceedingly imperfect c.ntrol exercised over them by
the police and licensing magistrates That your memorialists
regard the Government Licensing Bill as a very moderate
measure of reform, end as not capable of amendment except
by adding to the restrictions whi di it proposes to PiSCO
upon the sale of intoxicating liquors. That the repre-
sentations lately made to your lordship from the so-
called ' Pulolic Rights Defence Association may be the
sentiments of the population, but that the association has
no public influence, and its members are in no manner
entitled to speak on behalf of the working men of this me-
tropolis, who are as are, ions as those of provincial towns for
Such a restriction of the public-house system as will promote
public morality, and inid.to the prosperity of the whole com-
munity. Your memorialists, therefore, respectfully request
your lordship alit her Majesty's Government to resist any
attempts that may be made to mutilate and weaken the
provisions of the Licensing Bill in its passage through both
Houses of Parliament, and to give support to other clauses,
if proposed in either House for further diminishing the evils
of which the public-hoarse system Is now the acknowledged

rouse.,
The Earl of Kimberley, in the course of his reply to
the deputation, said—
On the whole, I am encouraged in having reason to think
that the bill is not an extreme one. It is simply what it ap-
pears to be. It le an honest attempt on the part of the
o..vernment to pass a measure on the subject that will meet
all difficulties, and not press too heavily or unjustly on any
existing interests. I believe the bill, if it will not accomplish
all that some people desire, goes in the right direction, and
that it is therefore worthy of the support of Parliament. I
quite agree that the existing law has not been very
efficiently carried out—nay, more I believe that if the
existing law had been properly carried out, much ef
what is now complained of and sought to be remedied
would not have existed. What is wanted is a more
efficient system of inspection. I believe that the
now before Parliament will provide that want. If it was only
for that reason alone, the bill is important, and would prove
useful. There is no use in changing the law if we do not pro-
vile for an efficient inspection. With the question of in-
spection is mixed up the question of taxation. Into the latter
question it is not necessary for me now to enter. I shall
only say that I am convincel that many who may be opposed
to the proposition respeeting taxation fully approve of the
necerlity of Improved inspection ; but we can hardly have
efficient inspectors without inclining some expense. It
seems to me that there is 110 difference of opinion between
the deputation I atn now addressing and myself with re-
gard to this bill. This is really a question which affects
especially the working cla ayes. They perhaps require
public-houses, in a moderate way, more than other elastics of
the community, and they suffer more from any excesses that
too frequent use of public-houses may entail. It is therefore
important that 1 should know what the opinions of the
working people are on the subject, more particularly as I
have been before now casured that the restrictions proposed
in the bill would interfere o ith the convenience of the work-
ing cia.ses. lithe bill had that effect, I havens doubt that
we should soon find a reaction set in, and LI, law would
probably have to be further altered. lam in hopes of being
able to rniant:iin the hill in the finnan
Its meeting with favour also in the House of Commons, and
I trust It will realise to the full the improvement in the law
we anticipate.

THE BREWERS AND THE LICENSING BILL.
A deputation of brewers from Lancashire and York-
shire waited upon Lord Kimberley on Monday, in
Downing-street, London, to urge upon himthe principal
objections othe Intoxicating Liquors Licensing Bill as '
amended in committee, and to suggest etill further
modifications in certain clauses, and notably in Clause
29, which provides that after a third conviction the
licence shall be taken away from the tenant, and it
shall be discretionary with the magistrates to disqualify
the premises. The other alterations suggested were
less imp, wtarit ; but at a preliminary meeting which
had been hell at tine" Bedford" ilote , Covent-garden.
and at which several gentlemen were present who did
not go in the deputation, it was stated that, though
differing in detail, the whole of the brewers throughout
the country were agreed on the main point that chtuae

29 as it stands amended might be made to work Very
prejudicially to owners of property.
Sir Thomas Baxley, M.P., introduced the deputation,
which consisted of Messrs. D. J. Flatteley, W. Clowes,
A. Woodhead, J. Oldham, and J. H. Twig.g, of the
Manchester Brewers' Central Association; J. Naylor,
Halifax; J. 11. Bentley, Leeds; and Mr. Naah.
Mr. Clowes, after speaking against the 29th clause.
submitted the amendment arrived at by the deputation
as follows:—
if soy licensed person on whose licence two convictions
for offences against this Act have been recorded is eon
victed of any offence which is directed by this Act to be
recorded on his licence, the following consequences shall
ensue—that is to Bay (I). he shall be disqualified for a
term of five years from the date of such third convic-
ti at from holding any licence, and when two successive
occupiers shall have been so disqualified the licence
shall be (orbited, provided that when the reqnired notice
of appeal shall have been given such disqualification or
forfeiture nh.cil not take effect till the appeal shall have
been withdrawn or heard and determined and conviction
affirmed. (2.) the premises in respect of which the licence
was granted may, it the Court having cognizance of the
case in its discretion so thinks tit to order, be disqualified
from receiving any licence for a term of two years from the
date of such forfeiture, provided that nothing in this section
contained shall prevent the ir ffiction by the Court of any
pecuniary penalty or ally term of imprisonment to which
such licensed person would otherwise be liable, or shall pre.
elude the Court from exercising any power given by any
other section of this Act of disqualifying such licensed person
or such premises (era longer period than the term mentioned
in this section.
Lord Kimberley said he could not for a moment con.
sent to adopt the amendment. It would eliminate the
whole principle of the bill.
Mr. Clowes asked that after the second conviction the
magistrates should not record anotligr if notice of
ejectment had been given.
Lord Kimberley said he could not agree to this. He
was willing that the offence sh..uld not count against
the owner, but againet the tenant it most certainly
ought. He might ode) that the clause might be still
further amended on the third reading, but the
principle he would never abandon. The Govern-
ment had been forced into legislation by the mal-
administration of the law, and the trade, instead of
assisting them to frame a useful measure, opposed them
at every point. In fact, he could see clearly that the
owners were determined to get out of all responsibility
whatever for their tenants, and to that extent Govern-
ment certainly never would support them. Modifica-
tions might be made in certain clauses, but he might
safely say that in the direction they pointed out no
further concessions would be granted. If they defeated
this bill, which was far from being severe, it was for
them to nonthler whether they midst not force on
themselves one which might be very severe. There
.."...xicotacee...wiwigo-Inixtewssido _out _of ..doora That they would
have no reform at all, and would submit to no restric-
tions, and he was convinced that they were not doing r
themselves any good. The struggle might be a long
and difficult one, but he was sure they would be beaten
in the end, for there were thousands of reasonable
men—quite at GA from temperance agitators—who
were determined that some reasonable restriethms
should be imposed. To give way to the extent the de-
putation asked, would be to throw up the bill alto- 1
gether.