The Stourbridge Observer, Cradley Heath, Halesowen & District Chronicle.
Stourbridge, West Midlands, England, 1873-09-13 00:00:00

--‘l7iiat did he fish with ?—.A red..

DI you know what firtlettleg le/—Yes ; I tued to put the
hies oil.

Wjbe pretty good ay Asher I—Not then.
Did he know the parts about where they catch trout?—
Yr., for a distance of a mile and a quarter.
The Lord Chief Justice . Down to what year wee this?
Witt es. I can's give the year, but when he CALI2O from
Poole and from the army.

Waiy--: iii:iiii-iiii,thelasyyear you were out
with him ?

Will.ea : I think it wag 1862.
Have you seen Itnger Ilchborne and Min Doughty walk-
ing together have seen them from Sir II 'ward's room
windows. I hive seen Sir Roger and kilns Doughl going
out together, sometimes Ltdy Doughty with the.. and some-
times other people.

_ -
Have you then them going out alone and come back alone?
—I htre then them kding out alone, aad coming back alone,
and with other people.
About how long before be left Ing_land, do you remember?
--I think it was about 1852. Sir Edward wee then 111 In
bed, and 1 could the them from the window whan they went
out or cote In.

About what time of day was It when they went out alone,
and came back alone ?-11enerally after lunch.

The Lord Chief Justice: What lime of year wee that?
Witnees : AU timer' of the jeer. Sometime, In the autumn
time of 1e52.

Mr. 'tonality: About what month of 1864 did you laat
them wolkl, g out/

Witness: follen saw them before that, in 1850 and 1861
The eritnese went on to say, that Roger was not fond of
the society of his own clam. He used to aearrolate with the
gamekeepers and the grooms. Ile frequently played the
French horn In hi. room. Saw him reading sometime., but
ray seldom. He wee very fond of copying mu.ic, afore
Sir Edward Doughty died he frequently told witness he
had let him an annuity of £5O. On Si, Edward's death
he went into the service of Sir Jana, but only re-
mained four months. Then came to Lendon, and
got monied • second time to • school mistress at
Tichborne. Eli first ale was the nurse of ffir
Cdwards son. When he told Lady Doughty that
he was going to Australia she gave him £lOO to pay the
passage money. Arrived at Sydney in August, 18110, and
went to reside at Dsimaine. Remained in the colony until
March, 1866, and during the whole of that time he received
through the Union Sauk £SOa year from Lady Doughty. He
wrote to Lay Doughty, and she wrote to him. Knew Gull-
tale, a nursery garden., near Sydney, who hal been
gardener to Sir Edward Doughty. Witness's health was
had, but for a few years he got employment as
a melange?. Hie son, Andrew, who had malted
on bildnela as • hairdrever near Sydney for seven
yen., having mid eomethlng to him, he (witness)
went to the Metropolitan Hotel, Sydney, and asked if Si,
IStger was there. He was told he wee out, and he waited for
half an hour, when he saw two gentlemen come from the
bllthrd room across the yard. One was Sir Roger ; the other
he didn't know. Seeing him eittinglithere Sir Roger looked
hard at him and he looked hard at him and smiled. illr Roger
came up to him and said, "Hallo, Bogle, Ls that your' He
replied, "Yee, sir; how are you r anti he said, "Very well."
He oberreo I, "How stout you have got." Then he went
away %MI othtr Kai:neaten into the hotel, and in • minute
after • waiter came to me and desired me to follow him. I
was taken into the defendant's room. I said to him "I have
called to see Sir Roger Tichborne, at you are not he, are
your" He said, "Oh yes, Bogle, I am, you allude to my
sije; but I am not the slender lad I was when I left 'Lich-
borne." I told the man at the Snpreme Court Baal that I
should call the following morning at the Metropolitan
to see Air Roger. mut was the only person to whom
I had mentioned B. I had a long conversation with the
defendant Be sated me If I ersa living at Tichborne
when his father first came thee,. I said I one. He
asked If We father Offered to keep me there, and when I left.
I told him yes, and that I lived with him about four month;
but in consequence of his going to make an alteration, DA the
saward told me. 1 Wt. He asked me HI meant M. Ocaord,
I ad yea He then aka me about my two eam and my
wife. I married ater he loft, and I did not indennand how
he laser her. He knew ay Nand wife well as the school
adstrews, bat not as my wile. Ho knew my saws as
stdldzsa. He aaswonwl thair names—Job. and Andrew.
Ha Impaled Ulm Sluo Godwls•—tanum• at Ilohborau

He mid old Godwin was a stingy old fallow, ice
he never &Hotrod his two soca Mita-crown a week to
spend. I did not know Mem were two song until the de-
fendant mistimed H. I have etneo ascerteined her. ere
two eons. He also inquired after Nurse Harahan, who
attended on his father, and woe with the Ilobbornee
In Paris during the great revolution. I tome her when
she waa hvtng M Tichborne ; she was then over eighty
years of age. The defendant allied if she was sEH
Mire. Hold him she was what I left Tiehborne. He
mined alter two brothers named (leg; they were !other
melons charseten who lived in the village. Etheridge,
the blacksmith, be Winfred after. He oleo asked me
Ii I recollected going out rabbit shnotior with him and
Bread, the gamekeeper. I told him I did. He told me
he had promised to meet a person on businem and
then I wished him good morning, and we parted. I saw the
defendant OD the following day at the ammo place. I met him
at the door of the hotaL He said he wag engaged, and I had
no conversation with him. The oast day I called on him I
remained with him for a quarter of en hoar. HY then salted
me if I knew the master of the Hampshire hounds. I said
no, but I told him the hounds were still kept at Aopley. I
&eked him if he was of the earn* mind as on the int in-
terview about taking me to England. He mid " tee; I Mall
know more about it in day or two." He mid I had better
call on him the next morning. I 414 so He said
he wan afraid he ahonld 1104 be able to take me to Eng-
land with him from want of mosey with which to pay my
passage. I replied that I was nary sorry. as I had parted
with all my things to be roody to co with him. He Said it I
called the next day he would settle II I should go with him
or not. I called, and he said he had made the necessary
farm gement' for my ootning home with him. I left Sydney with
him ou the 2nd 3eptember, 186. The same day that I flret
saw the defendant I called on Gilfoyle, and had a short con-
versation with him.

Mr. Hensel propmed to offer In evidence the oonverak
Mon of Bogie with GlHoyle to contradict • statement to a
letter from Lady Doughty.
Mr. Hawkins objected.
Mr. Justice Lush laid it could not be need, became It was
not to oontradict evidence given by Gl.Hoyle.
Mr. Kansaly sald the letter had bees read as part of the
evidence In the lest WM.

Mr. Hawkins : And which the defence indated thould be
read al part of that cat.. It could not be used In Ude prose-
cution.

Mr. Indica MOHOr said he was of opinion the conversation
could not be given.
--••- - - -

Witmer. :Icsm.bom.intheßicgi.buhl ilrst wrote to
Lady Doughty. fibs did not answer my letter. (tome die-
canton anee on the admission of letters written by the .it.
nee. to Lady Doughty and her replies). When we arrived in
ingland we went to Ford', Hotel. I then wrote to Lady
Doughty, and again from Croydon. I received an answer
I went to Alresford in consequesoe of • telegram I reoelved
from the defendant. I went to Tichborne chapeL I new
Hrs. Greenwood, and had a conversation with her. In con-
sequence of • telegram I received from Mr. Holmes I
went to the Hotel de Lille it d'Alblon at Palle. I was
shown into • room where there were a number of ladies. I
recognised lady Tichborne. On my return I called at Ken-
singion-squar• to see Lady Doughty, but she lent out word
that she declined to see me until the affair wu settled. I
have lived with sad beeseupported by the defendant sire.,
my return to England. Lady Tichborne wits a sensible,
rational person I never gave the defendant any intor.
=LH m whatever about tichtorne. I told the Attorues-
General noon the last Wel. Lie never naked me any ques-
tfo, N. It he had, I could hare given hlm plenty of tutor-
mallow.

Cross-examined by Mr. Hawkins I gave him no Informs-
it I nev-r spoke to him occasionally about old times. I
like to talk about the present. I never talked over old times
with Mu); that I swear to—except when he asked me about
shooting and fishing. At Croydon I paid his bills, and took
charge of his wines and 8011(.8. I have done nothing
for him since, except living with him and °atter and
drinking. (Laughter.) He has found me what clothes
I want and spending money. I have not felt the went
of • &goon. sin. I came back. The coat I have on
was made in Sydney. The defendant has educated my
son. lie and Tam living with the defendant at Ms expense.
My son gets 5x a week—not enough to find him in eh.
leather. If! wanted to find my way home and caned a cab
I should tell the cabman to drive to the defendant's house
and he would find him out. I don't know any other address
to give him. The defendant's family lives In the seems house,
and he rote there occasionally. He lives now near the court.
I don't know Beaborough Gardens or place. I dons know
where he is living. I could hare gives him a good deal
of informaticn If he had asked me. I came Suety to liro
In England with Sir Edward Doughty it the age of IS
SI/ Edward then lived with his brothers in Tichborne
Park. Be remained there f dur or five weeks—until
lileabeth Doughty left biro her property. Sir IC ward
bought Upton House of Mr. flporrter, but there was not
mach land belonging to it. I went to 11. with hide there se
Noon as he took possession. It was hie home until Sir Edward
died In 1845. I acted aa gamekeeper to him.all the time he
lived at Upton. The island at Upton is claw to Upton shore.
I became acquainted with slew of the Poole people. I know
more about old Gould, the fisherman, now than I did when I
Ilved at Upton. I first saw Roger when he was no eye aIL
(Laughter.)
•

• --
Wr Usual= : He must hats been been age, became he
was born.

Witness: I saw him before he could walk alone, about
three years old, at Upton. His father and mother were
both there. He wore blue and white frocks, or thee might
have been all oolours—not the same colours alwaya I saw
him again two or three years afterwards dressed a.. boy
in jacket and tronsera I never noticed whether ne wore
blue fro, ks trimmed with white, or white frocks
trimmed with blue Sarah Fenimore wee hi. none.
I remember his parents coming to Upton with him. I don't
thine I saw him after he was nine years of age till before his
uncle's funeral. I don't think Lady Tlchborne came over
with him to the funeral. I think he went from Tichhorne to
Knoyle. I have no recollection of hie going to Stonyhunit
I afterwards heard of it. I have pictures of Upton after
the addition thlt was made to It. Sir Edward rode I bay
web pony at Upton. He had • dark brown before thal
His chair was wheeled about by hand. A grey or white
pony drew the trap In the park. I don't remember his
name. I had a large plod!» of ideton when I
was at Sydney Small photographs were taken from It. It
Apr. silted • pony drawing • carriage and • little boy.
Haughty, who died before Sir Edward went to Tichborne. I
knew Goderin's farm, close to Tichborne, end old Etheridge.
I never heard • word abrut the mete until the trial I don't
remember Mrs. Norris, who married Webb, doing needle
work at the house. M. Doughty rod., bay mare. I never
hesrd her name. I old not know the Dunce of any of the
horses. Roger had two doge called Spring and Pie-
cruet. I remember Spring very well. Mr. Raging
cleaned the pictures at Tichborne Park. Powell used to
play at the servants' Falls. arc. R got went to him at
Alresford to Immo the French horn. I did not then Know
Rowe, Mr. Hopkins' clerk. Mr. Hopkins oecul neatly called
and saw Mr Jaime Tiohborne. If.. Dann transacted emit
of Sir Edward's Maine's. I knew Mr Slaughter very
lb :Ye seen him at Up., n and at Tichtenne. Mr. Culdneton
I .4 n I to w Mr. If tkine was looked noon as le
lonely 1.. y r. Urger had etr.ight, lank hair with a Lek
felling over his eyes He had a twitch n,w and
then in th. ere. Sir James wore a bandage round
one of his legs for an irjury he received. R gore
voice wax very similar to the defendant's. It was
not altogether very amonh, nor yet very rongh. Be-
fore he went abroad it WU & delicate, week voice.
The defendant's Is a stronger voice—much stronger. It Is
not clearer voice now than formerly. I don't miss the
accent. I can trace now and then a French accent. Some
years before he went abroad Roger .poke with a string
French accent, but not an strong as at drat I wrongly
mean to state that the French accent can be traced In.
word or two in the defendant's conversation. I did not trace
It for some time when I met the defendant in Sydney. I
can't any when I first traced it It was at the first or second
meeting.
The Lord Chief Justice : You have lost said it was not
until some time after. . .

Witnessl think I traced • word or two at the second
meeting. 1 410111 recollect the work. I was not watching
for it. I won't swear II I traced It at the second Interview
or before I oame to Zngland. I went Into Roger's bedroom
at Tichborne three times when he was smoking. I never
law him weer a dressing-gown. He had his night shirt on,
and his bream tied round the waist of his trOnlen.

Now, as to your going Into his room when hewn. undressed
and smoking he smoked in his bedroom, did be I—Yes.
How often did you see him smoking there I—Three times.
He sat in hie night shirt cud smoked I—Yes, he tied his
trousers round hie Walla and smoked. Huai he offered me a
clear, and I smoked.
When were those three occasional—When he wen in the
army.
How long alter he was in the army I—lt might be H months
or two lean. 1 can't rec olect
What time of the yeas 1-1 think it wen the summer.
Was It I—l think so
All on one visit 7—Yes.

.
Had you a fire in the room I—No.
How long were you there with him T—The drat time half an
hour, the second time an hour, and the third time. quarter
of an hour.

How long before he went sway ?—I think It was In 1851.
[Roger was In Ireland that year ) I believe It was In the
summer of 1851. I won't swear II; at all events, the summer
thus, getting towards the end. It wee Just before the
shocting Sealoll.

Ranh time you remember the night shirt and the trousers
—Yee.

Were the sleeves buttoned 7—No, looee ; no button&
He rubbed his arms, did he 7—Yes.
Each time I—Yes.
The same action 7—Yes
Each time rubbed the naked arm 7—Yes.
And each time you could sea the arm —Yes.
Never the outdde of the sleeves I—No, Inside.
Which arm did you met—Both.
And both up to the elbow I—Yee.
Always unbuttoned 7—Yee.
How Wish t—l New to the elbow. I noticed particularly.
Why did you nokce ii particularlyt—Weil, I noticed it.
DJ you seriously mean to say you noticed his arm parti-
cularly and recollect it alter 26 years 7-1 swear thus I saw
him rub his arm on three occasions.

[low were you sitting T—He ou oue olds of the table and I
the other.

With lights I—Yas.
Between you and him /—Yea.
Well, theme are the occasions that make you say there
were no tattoo market—No, I saw tone; and, between you
end I, I don't believe an One else ever in them
Then yon think those who hate sworn So them have sworn
tuttruls I—Yea. . . . .

Dld you ever know him for jcke paint him ens I—No.
Never hear I of It f—No.
When Mc you first of all recall to your memory them
three evenings when you raw bid arms 7—Why, when they
Mid he was tattooed, and I said lf he was, I mast have
sem
. . . . .

foU-sald baldric about It as du lad trial/ -I ad not
asked about It.

But you were examined after Upeeombe foes of the
defendset'a witnesses who wont/coned the tattoolog)t—
Yew
. . .

And you were In court when he was examined I—Ye..
Wu he not ereen-examlned about tattoo marks I—l heard
him my that he had seen them.

Did you hear him cross-examined on the subject 7—Yes.
Did you hear questions put to him about tattoo mark• on
Boger Tichborne• army—Welt, If 1 mud not say what he
said it's of no use.
The question Was repeated. The witness gave the same
answer.

You understood the question t—Yee.
'then answer It —Weil, I did bear It.
You were examined I—Yes. No question ;wee put to me
about IR

bid the counsel for the defendant put any question to you
about It t—No. _
_ _ _

Mr. Juttice Lush Waa he examtned after Mr. Lipscomb@
Mr. Hawkins : Oh yet, week* afterwards. (To the Wilma)
Did you then toll Mr. Spvfforth about toeing Roger in tag
bedroom I—Ne.
When did you grat mention it t—Not until I told you here.
Not before you got Into the wife...box 7-14 0.
Did you not Clunk It a matter of Importance 7—l never
thought about it.
Never thought about It? Did you not know that that:rattly
said Roger was tattooed I—No , I never heard about it until
the lug trial.

_
--Did you not know tb• tattooing was a matter of import-
ance i—tfot to ma.
Wu it not of importance did not know it. I hoard it
spoken ot.
Did you know it was a matter of importance P—Witoaaa
wu Went.

--ine-q-jeklon was repeated.
Witnesi : Well, 11 he was tattooed, It would be matter of
importance.
And you mentioned to no one till this morning what you
have now stated In that box?—No ; that I swear.
That you swear I—Yea.
Did you over epuk to the defendant aboutitt—No.
Nor he to you I—No.
Da you mean to swear that, having lived with him for near
seven years, you have never spoken about 167-1 swifter I
never named It to him nor he to me.
Nor bear it mentioned di—No.
Were you asked about ill—No. One or two persinie,
dungen, might have sated me if It wee true.
Strangers I—Yes.
Always atrangen —Yea.
Did you ever hear of it ,ger being bled I—Yes.
When did you hut hear of It 7—When I wee living at
Croydon.
You heard It then foe the first time I—Yee.
Who told you of Hi—WC:au.
[One of Roger's military mrvemea who was in the defend-
ant's melee aS Croydon.]
I Did you hmow where Urn wee quitellsred Ia Irelaodl—
No.

Did you Imow of his being quartered it Canterbury ?—No
at that Mine. I heard It afterwards.
You say you mw Roger hat hi 18681—Yea
How long was he at Tlohborne thee f—Not long.
How long /—I cool tell
How long. • week or a month, the last time you saw him
at Tlchborne 1-1 don't think It wan more thou a day. au
you. A very short time.
the last visit In June, 1552, he wag only there one entire
day)
What time was It t—l think it wen about the Spring. I
know it was cold and there wea • flre.
He did not stay more than • day /—Tnat Is my recollee-
lion...

Did be meat to you 1--No.
Do you remember when he last 'poke to you I—No.
Hint he Soknn to you for two years before !--Oh, yes, I
can't remember when it was
DJ you remember Kies Beath., the governess 1---Yea
D s you remember her oumlug GT going 1--No.
Did she dice with the family 7—Occasionally; ordinarily
Ike mad to dine with Miss Doughty In the school-room.

Generally in. the school-groom t—Yew at the luncheon
time
use did not dine with the family I- She used to go in at
demist.
You say you have men Roger and lfiss Doughty soca Sir
Idward's window

- When was that cant lay.
Nor the year 7—No.
You knew Mr. Gmford well 7—Yes.
What did they call him at lichborne—steward or agent
- Was Roger a good dell with him 7—Yes, he was very fond
of Mr. Guilford, and was always with him.
And Mrs Gosford I—Yes.
Who else was food of him 7—All the gentry round.
And were on good terns with him t—Yes.
He used to visit at Brookwood 7—Yes.
And the Greenwood. were food of Moil—Yes.
Me. Ho. k Ins of late years did not visit at lichborne 2—No,
I never saw him dine there.
Did Mr. Lip.combe 7—Yes, often.
lie live. at Alreaford 7—Yes.
And is there still 7—yes.
8.7 you recollect Mrs and Miss Nisngle I—Yes.
Was Mrs. Naugle fond of him 7—Yea.
And Mr. Naugle P—Yes ;ha was a gentlemanly man.
And • petit friend of Rogerl—Yes.
wh, was itogin's greatest friend I—Lady Doughty.
Site took a great deal of notice of him 7—Yes.
Your service to the family oontlnued until the death of Sir
Rdwardt—Yes.

The Court then again adjourned.
- - -
At the sitting of the Court on Tuesday morning,
Mr. Kenealy complained that a letter had been sent to
the defendant by the Solicitor to the Treasury, inti-
ruatiog that the Treasury would not pay the expenses
of witnesses whose names and addresses and the sub-
stance of whose evidence had not been communicated
to the prosecution before the Ist of September, • pro-
ceeding which he characterised ma exceedingly unfair.
Mr. Hawkins explained that a letter to that effect was
sent to the defendant's attorney on the 27th Auernet,
and as no notice was taken of it, and the names of
more witnesses continued to be sent in every day, it
was deemed proper to send this letter to the defendant
himaelf. The Lord Chief Juatice said the recom-
mendation of the Court did not refer to witnesses yet
to come forward who might by chance turn up.

_
The ernes-examination of Andrew Bogle, begun the pre•
afternoon, was then continued by Mr. Hawkins,
chiefly with a view to ascertain his knowledge of people and
events known to Roger Tichborne, hie motive for going to
Australia, and the occupations and movements of his
two sons, John and Andrew. In the colony. The first
was • chemist in Sydney, and the other, as stated the previous
day, a hairdramer near that pier*. Andrew went out with
him, and John afterwards rejoined him. Bogle gave as his
rose m for going to Australia that Andrew wanted to be, like
him, a genUemisn'i servant, and beteg sgalrist that, he
thought 11 he went abroad he might turn his mind to some-
thing else. lie (Bogle) did not Intend hhnssill to go into
business, but he thought he might get some occupation.
Once he kept • stall In the market in Sydney, and sold full,
vegetables, and that sort of thing. Fl• did not keep •
house, but lived in lodgings His son Andrew brought him
news of the arrival of the defendant in Sydney only a day or
two before he saw him, and showed him • paragraph la the
newspaper about it, but he did not read it at the time. lie
also showed him at the same time the advertisement in the
Sydney paper seeking for information about It get Tlch-
borne. My son brought me the Sydney papery, which stated
that Elie Roger Tichlxerne had passed through Gonlbeurn on
his way to spine, intake his peruse home. At the Metro-
Polito) Hotel the defendant said the gentleman with him was
his agent. I knew the defendant at first inght. Roger ap-
peared to be narrow chested when a young men. he was
about the Name height as the defendant ; he did not ithop
ie welting, and he had what might be called a long nee k.
lite upper part of the defendant's fams I. like the origin .1
Roger. Roger wore a small moustache. The defendant when
I Met saw nlns had a beard and whiskers, but I can't soy
Ii he had • moustache. The daguerreotype of Roger
produced is a good likeness of him. In the yard
of the Metropolitan the defendant looked hard
at me and 1 at him. lie had previomly
seen °Moyle. He told me that be knew I was in Sydney,
shows me • letter he had received from the Dowager Lady
Tichborne, and asked me if I knew her hand.riting. He
told me that bla mother had written to him stating that 1
was to Sydney, and that ill had not called on him that
morning he should have advertised for me in the Sydney
papers. I did not know the agent with the defendant or ask
who he was. I was happy at meeting with him after twelve
years' aosence. We talked most affectionately for a short
time I did not ask him where he had been living in Aus-
tralia, what he had been doing, or what name he parsed by.
I asked him about his milli...erect, and he said he had a
dreadful time of it for some days, and that he nearly lost
his life. That is all that was ever said about It be-
tween us. From the time I first my him in Sydney down to
the present time I have had unearths.? conversation with him
about the shipwreck, or how he got his Laing iii Australia,
other than that he went into the bush and broke horses,
where he made £2OO or £3lO, and then came back to Mel.
bourne to return to England, but that hls heart failed him
when he saw the sea. Ile mentioned two or three places
where he had been. One, I think, was Gippealsod. I have
mentioned the horse breaking for the first time this morning.
I was examined so qtlCtly in the former trial that I was as.
loathed when I was dune with by Mr. Seryeant Ballantine.
I was glad wheat got outside the court. (Laughter) 1
could have said more at that time ill had been asked.

Mr. Hawkins: But how could Ids. &vivant Ballanthie
have known abut the hone-breaking If you did not that make
the atetsment to the attexLey.
Wino..: I very seldom .peak to people about my affairs.
Mr Hawkins : lii. the defendant's affairs.
Witness : After! made my first statement many thlngs
came hack t my recollection.

e Lord tint f Jue. W,s nt I. &Ad •h( rat the
horse I:r.,..king ntha :met trial.

Mr II :No. not iue word.
Witness I Levin to remember It two or three week. ago.
At Sydney the .le'eli inn: mite I me II I was Ilvlug at rich.
borne when his father came there.

Mr. Hawkins read from the witness's examination on the
former trial that he said the defendant asked him if his father
was living it lichborme when he came away, end asked him
which statement was true.

Witness : The first Is the right one. I isn't remember
what I mid on the last trial, it is so long ago. The defendant
did not ask me if I had any pictures at Upton or Tichborne ;
I took them on my own account, and also a book of ban d
paper I had from Lady Doughty, continuing the TichbJrne
crest on each leaf At the second interview defendant took
a gold ring with • atone in it °LA of his pocket, on which
was engraved the Tlchborne arms, and showed it to ins
He told me he had It made and engraved In Sydney. Idi
not think the crest was so well dune as the crest on the
paper, and I took the paper book that the defendant
might see how much better it was done. When I showed
him the picture of Upton, be said, "Yes, that la old Up
ton," and he had It photographed. I allowed him to
take • leaf out of the book. I have since seen the defendant
wear the ring on his finger. He old not tell me when he got
the crest to have it cut on the ring. I did not notice the
crest on the dowager's letter he showed to ma I swear
that he did not tell me why he wanted the leaf, and I Old
not ask him. I never lived a day or an hour with the
defendant in Sydney, as he repreeented in a letter to
Mr. Cotta, when he wanted to raise money with which
to come home. Defendant had • second leaf oat of the
book after he arrived in England. I did not think it
Aral ge. When I took the picture of Upton to him
I also showed him a likeneu of Sir Edward Doughty
black profile, at d • copy of the Doughty and Tichborne
arms blended. When he saw the picture of Upton he said
" That's old Upton" I any, r heard that the Tlchttorne arms
was a bird's head with wino. Nothing waa then said about
the white pony in the picture of Upton. I first heard the
name of Cotter when the defendant was crom-examired. I
never said anything to him about the Hermitage. I did not
know the name. 1 never maid the defendant was unlike Sir
Edward.

M. llawkine read that part of the witness!)a
uullrn on the lsat trial wh,n he said the defendant wa• not
at all like hie utcle, Sir E %ward, and asked him whether it
wan trte

Whores eald It Irak The defendant Is not like the black
profile of Slr Edward, sod newer was. (Defendant to his
letter to Mr Cotter said lf he saw one he could not fall so
recognise the other.)

The remaining part of the cross-examination re-
ferred to the incidents after the arrival of the witness
in England, and at a quarter to four o'clock the cross-
examination was again adjourned until the following
day.

On Wednesday morning Andiew B gle wee re-examlned
by Mr. Housely. lie mid he was subject to attack. of
rheumatism which prevented him from following any oc-
cupation, and that if the defendant had not kept him he
must have gone to the workhouse Ho looked after the
defeudmt's little children and taurht them to read. With
respect to lichborne he said that Baigent cleaned the 'Ac-
tives In the house, and on one occulon while so employed
he stayed in the house for three weeks. He knew a little
French, and meant to say that he detected the French
accent of the defendant in a word now and then. He
said that since the last trial both Carter and McCann had
died—the Brat nine mouths ag and the other soon after
the trial Did not know whether Sergeant Major Quin
was also dead._ _

To the Lord Chief Justice : At Sydney I did not come in
contact with Mr. Cnbitt or Mr. Glbbee, and never saw °tiller.
As far KS I know, my 11013 never saw them.
Mrs. Butt, whose father kept the mill at Chariton, and who
lived there up to 1866, produced two pictures of the place,
which were banded up to the Denali. Roger llohborne was
fond ct visiting the mill, and she Kew him perfectly well.
The defendant was Roger lichborue. Roger was very inti-
mate with her brother, George Coles, and was fond of having
a chat with him. He emoted a good deal, and was fond of
shooting. Witness's father was one of the oldest Ticisborne
tenants. She was the ball given when R.ger came of age.
Knew Miss Doughty ; she frequently called at the mill.
Mr. Hawkins said that the only notice they had received
of this witnesss was that she knew Roger Tichberne, having
se; n and conversed with him frequ ntly, that she had • dia.
tinct recollection of him, and that she wuuld prove that the
defendant was Roger.
Mr. Kemal, : You have no right to any notice at all when
you do not pay • witnem's expellees. I ant lorry you got any
notice at all. (Laughter).
The Lord Chief Justice thought this was one of the wit-
nesse. who would be paid.
Mr. Hawkins: I mention the matter because it shows the
honesty of the notice, which was delivered under the im-
pression that the witness would be paid.
Mr. Kenealy It is • perfectly honest notice. ;It is more
honest than this prosecution.
Mr Justice Metier: Thai is not relevant.
Mr. Kenealy If insinuations are made with regard to the
honesty of the defence, I will say the same of the prosecution.
I maintain the honesty of the defence, and I will do so before
the whole world. .

Mr. Justice Mellor I have not the least doubt you will.
You have already done so.
Mr. Honesty : I don't think there ought lob, any reflection
Oil the honesty of the notice.
The Lord Chief Justice: The honesty c 4 the notice hse
nothing to do with tine honesty of the °steno* or the honesty
of the prosecution
Mr. if enealy doubted that, and said that if any reflections
of this kiwi were roads he would answer it. He did not in-
vite such observations; be would rather not have them, but
it they were repeated he would not Maitate to cbaraoterize
the pr me.,ntion

Mr. Justice Lush suggested that the learned counsel should
bear In mind the observations he had himself made on the
prosecution, and said that such remarks should be avoided on
both sides
•

The witnees'e examination, was then continued ma follows
—My brother sod Roger often went out shooting rabbits
together. I know the stile on the way from richt), rue Park
to Cheriton. It Is about half a mile from the park. I once
taw Roger and Miss Doughty sitting on that stile. No one
was with them. I made • grotto myself In the garden of
Cheriton mill. It was by the water-tble mid clue to the
home. In entering the grotto you had first to go down six
steps and open a wicket Once I saw Roger and Mies
Doughty go iwo the steps and right into the grotto. They
were alone. The grotto isneer. private cart road, and the
entrance to It le immediately in front of the holm,. It was
about two o'clock in the day when I saw them, and is nearly
U I can recollect in 1852. I wee standing CiON to them
when they passed, but did not speak to them At the time
myself and my brother were standing together. but I don't
think they law us. My brother is dead. It mast hove been
su the autumn; the sun wax on the deCline. I mesa that It
was LAU than roidamiser.

To Mr.. Julio. Mellor We were standing at the door,
and there was only the cart road between us. The grotto
was entirely surrounded by and covered in with bra
To the Lord Chief Justice: The grotto was only a walk by
the river, reseed In by tree.. ( Laughter.) I patio many
stones upon ii that we used to call it. grotto.
II a lordship observed that it was armed to call such a 1
place • rottO.,
The winter said It was a nickname.
The Lord Chief Jeurtioe : I no Ireland it was rely • walk
with stones laid abouh and covered in with trees I—Yes
Izateination continued The walk in 100 yards long. There
see several rustic seats in it. I know the road between
Brander C onmon and Brandean village. On one occasion
I saw Roger nod Mho Doughty riding together on that road.
They were alone. The defendant is Roger Tichborne. I
recognise a Direness in him to hie one's Henry, especially
about the eyebrows. Ike road I have mentioned le • pubic
.110, sod is much frequented by the villager.. It has high
banks and hedges. I saw Roger and Mita Doughy there in
the middle of July In 1860 or 1851
The Lord Chief Justice : That must be a mistake.
Mr. Renealy Oh, my lord, I cannot pin myself to datea.
(Laughter )
The Lord Chief Justice: But 1111. wirer mast, en far r
she can. Roger wee not at Tichborne in either of those
year..
Examination continued : Although I do not know the date,
lam sure about the fact. When I first saw the defendant I
irked him if he could recall to my remerwance ani Craig I
ought to recollect when at home. 1 hat was only )seterdey
morning. (Laughter.) That was the Mist time I had ern
Moe since he left Er gland. He said. "Do yore recollect my
having shot your father's little dog 1' I said Did you doll;
I was not there." Ile replied. ' I was out rabbit-shooting
with your brother George. Your father'. dog ran out of •
bush. I mistook it for a hare, and lup with my gun sod
shot him dead." I herd that it did take p'ace.
Cross-examined by Mr. Serjeant Parry U 7 brother told
me so when the derendant mentioned ale clrcumatenoe. I
was certahlly more convinced he was Sir Roger.
Had you any doubt up to that time I—Before yesterday I
felt disposed to think the defendant was R we but I wished
tore him. My brother saw him alter he returned to Rug
lull and I asked him if he believed him to oe the man, and
he said he did. That made me thick he was Sir Roger.
Eleven or eight weeks ago what I had to say was taken down
In writing. On the occasion when 1 saw Roger and tibta
Doughty riding together, they had been to see a picnic of
villagers on the common. They went too soon, and on their
return they met us going. lam certain it was in July be-
canes it was Just after the village few. Were they went
into the grotto we watched them, but I do not think they
, saw us. It must have been after July, 1862, but I can't say
I whether it was after the harvest. My brother called my at-
tention to them. _
_ . _ _

To Mr. Justice Mellor: The grotto was only a short dis-
tance from the house, and they might have seen us 11$ the
do.d. If they had liked.
The witness also said that she was c ,nnected with the
Stubbs's, her sister haring married one of the sons, who was
dead.
_ .

-4.3• the Jury : There was only one entrance to the grotto,
and you could not get out at either end.
To the Lord ~..12lef Justice My brother and myself talked
about their nolog Into the grotto.
Did you tell other people about it may have done io.
To Mr Justice Mellor : We stayed at the door some time,
and then went indoors.