The Press.
London, England, 1853-08-13 00:00:00

THE PRESS.

duce that peace, and that peculiar character of peac
which would alone be beneficial to this country. (Hear.
hear.) I must inform my noble friend that the negotia-
tions appear to have assumed exactly that character which
we all have most desired. This question has not been left
as one simply between Russia and the Porte. It has not
been left as one between England and France, united
closely fur supporting Turkey against Russia. It has as•
sinned a European character. ( Hear, hear.) It is not
only the Porte, it is Austria, it is Prussia, it is France, it
is Enghuid, acting together in order to cheek designs
which they consider inconsistent with the balance of
power, or those territorial limits established by previous
agreement. This, I say, is a state of things which must
be satisfactory to your lordships and to the country, be.
cause it. is likely to lead to a more satisfactory and more
pertnallent conclusion. I think my noble friend will not
press me to enter more into details as to the state of the
negotiations now pending between Vienna and St. Peters-
burg, when I assure him that nothing has been done at
Violins without the consent of the French and English
tiovernments, and that the French and English Govern.
tuents will consent to nothing which does nut protect and
secure the independence of Turkey. k Hear, hear.)"
The Earl of MALMESBURY suggested as a matter of
propriety that ministers should afford the house
some fuller information than they had yet vouch-
safed before the recess ; and as a matter of expe-
diency that an expression of legislative opinion on
the whole question should be placed on record, for
the benefit of this and foreign countries. Such an
opinion could, he believed, he obtained without ha
zarding any debate which would interfere with the
negotiations :
" He trusted, at all events, that the noble earl would not
refuse to give the country some idea of what he expected
from the Russian Government—to tell them a little more
plainly whether it was made a eine qud nun that Russia
should evacuate the Turkish provinces ; because, when he
talked of objections to a permanent occupation, it was a
phrase difficult to explain ; and it might be ' permanent
occupation' meant the appropriation of those provinces
by Russia. He did not think this country would be satis-
fied with less than the speedy and complete evacuation of
those provinces. (Hear, hear.)"
The Earl of CLARENDON felt no hesitation in stating
that the Government looked on the immediate and
complete evacuation of the Danubian provinces as a
sine qud non of any agreement whatever. With re-
gard to further information and a parliamentary de-
bate, they were most anxious to afford one and take
the other, but could still give only a qualified pro-
mise on the subject :

- -
" I hope it will be remembered that the Government do
not shrink from any discussion ; and any disposition I
ever had in favour of that discussion is greatly increased
by the prospeet—l fear not quite so immediate a prospect
—of the close of the session. Ido think it desirable the
country should have every information we can give it ; and
I can assure my noble friend nothing will prevent her
Majesty's Government from doing so, except those reasons
which have hitherto influenced them—regard for the public
service—and which have been recognised and approved by
this house. (Hear, hear. )"

In the Lower 11011140 Sir J. WALMESLEY urged some
parallel queries, and demanded whether before the
prorogation the Ministry intended to make any state•
ments to the house, and also whether they would fix
a day for discussing the subject?
Lord J. RUSSELL promised before the recess to
give such explanations with regard to the relations
between Russia and Turkey as might be consistent
with his public duty. The public interest, however,
rendered, in his belief, any discussion just now un-
advisable.

Lord D. STUART inquired whether the rumours
that had that morning been circulating, affirming
the acceptance by the Emperor of Russia of the pro-
positions drawn up by other European powers, had
any foundation
Lord .1. Ressm.r.: In answer to the question of my
noble friend, I have to state that there is a foundation for
the rumours to which he has alluded. (('heers.) The
telegraphic despatch which has been received from her
Majesty's Minister at Vienna is of a satisfactory character.
(('hem.) I may say flirt her that the messenger who was
to leave Vienna for Constantinople on the 31st of July did
not leave until the 2nd of August, and, therefore. the reply
to the despatch which he conveyed cannot be expected so
soon as was expected.
Sir DE L. EVANS : Are we to understand that the infor-
mation promised by the noble lord on this most important
subject will be communicated at such a time as Will not
permit any members of the house to offer theiropinions
upon the subject ? (Hear, )rear.) Is it to be simply
communicated without any opportunity being afforded for
discussion?

Lord .1. llyssm.l.: I beg merely to explain that what I
said was, that I would communicate such information as

WIN in my power, consistently with my public duty, and 1
think it would be nom, satisfaetory that I should give that
information at the latest moment before the prorogation.
(Hear. hear.)
Mr. I..tyAnn: As I have a notice on the paper in refer.
once to this subject. perhaps I may be excused for asking
the noble lord whether or not there will be a discussion
upon the subject before Parliament is prorogued ?
Lord J. Russzu : IL is the opinion of her Majesty's
Government that it would not be advisable to have such a
discussion. (Cheero.)
Mr. Disa.m.t, at a later hour, revived the subject,
and, under the proviso that no fficial objection fore-

SATURDAY,

stalled the information, inquired the nature of the
proposals transmitted to, and accepted by, the Em.
peror of Russia.
Lord J. RI:SsELL : I cannot at present state what
the proposals are which have been made to the Em-
peror of Russia. I have already stated that, before
the house is prorogued, I will give all the informa-
tion which it is consistent with my duty to afford.
What that information may be, of course I will not
now anticipate. I can only say that I will give the
house all the information I can, consistently with the
interests of the public service. (Hear, hear.)

INDIA BILL.
This bill was passed through committee in the
House of Lords on Monday, after a prolonged
discussion and the suggestion of some important
amendments.
The first clause was agreed to as it stood, Lord
ALBEMARLE, with some remarks upon the enormous
expense attending the double system of government,
having thrown out an economical proposition for dis-
pensing with the costly machinery of a governor and
council at, Bombay and Madras, and placing those
presidencies in the keeping of a lieutenant-
governor.
Upon the second clause Lord ELLE:OO2OMR
proposed an amendment, providing that, if the Court
of Directors should neglect to sign any document
within a given time, the signature of an official of
the Board of Control should suffice to make such
document valid.
After some discussion it was agreed that the power
of affixing such signature should be conferred on
commissioners.
On the sixth clause the same noble earl proposed
that all retired officers of twenty years' service in
India should have votes in the election of directors.
This would add about 1,250 votes, and make the
whole constituency 3,000, a number which he defied
any one to canvass.
The Duke of ARGYLL contended that this amend-
ment would entirely alter the character of the con-
stituency, which the house had already decided upon
preserving in its present condition.
The amendment was negatived.
The tenth clause, which related to the oaths re-
quired to be taken by directors on assuming their
functions, was objected to by the Earl of ELLEN-
BOROUGH, as being very carelessly framed. Though
a director swore that he would not take any emolu-
ment, he did not pledge himself not to take any
promise of emolument. The last clause, "to be in-
different and equal to all manner of persons," must
be perpetually violated, and was intended to be. He
had prepared an oath of his own which would bring
the parties taking it to a sense of their real position,
which was Lthat of trustees for the Crown, and not
for a defunct company, and which also provided
against corruption.
Lord HARROWBY thought that both oaths were
insulting to the directors, who were called upon
to give an obligation demanded of no other function-
aries.
Lord GRANVILLE consented to reconsider the
wording of the clause, which was accordingly post-
poned.
From clause 22 Lord ELLENBOROUGH moved the
omission of the word which limited to a selection
from the " civil " servants of the company, the Go-
vernor-General's appointment of two members of the
Legislative Council.
Lord BROUGHTON agreed that the Governor
ought not to be fettered; that he had doubts about
the working of the council, which would become a
little Parliament, and which would, he thought,
diminish the authority of the Governor-General
in the eyes of the natives. Another danger arose
from the impossibility of keeping anything secret in
India, even the most important despatch, the con-
tents of which almost invariably oozed out as it was.
If we were beginning to govern India in a new way,
the experiment could not stop where it was now pro-
posed that it should.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE also thought it objectionable
to limit the Governor-General in his choice of a
council.
Lord GRANVILLE assented to the removal of the
word "civil," which was done, and the clause was
agreed to.
An amendment to clause 30, proposing that the
Commander-in-Chief of the Forces in India should
he an ex-officio member of the council, was moved by
Lord ELLENBOROUGIL but negatived, with some brief
discussion.
On clause 30 (referring to Haileybury College),
Lord MONTEAGLE expressed his belief that a me:
examination would prove an unsatisfactory test of
merit, and that incompetent candidates would suc-
ceed by the process of cramming.
Lord GRANVILLE said that it would be disgraceful
to the college if youths who had had a special edu-
cation there could not, nine times out of ten, beat any
one who had been merely crammed.
The clause was agreed to.
Lord MoxrrAotz afterwards moved the insertion
Of a clause providing that there should be no

AUGUST 13, 1853.

distinction between covenanted and

servants of the Company. His motive was to secure
the admission of natives to employment.
Lord tittAxvrux remarked that the clause was
perfectly supererogatory, as natives could be admitted
to office on proving themselves properly qualified
under the act as it stood.

The amendment was therefore negatived.
The fourty-fourth clause being proposed, by which
it was to be enacted that the manufacture and sale
of salt by the East India Company should cease. at a
certain date,
The Earl of EMENHOROI'iIIa opposed the proposi-
tion, although he thought it would be more proper
that one of her Majesty's Ministers should move the
omission of this clause :

"The clause was not part of their proposition to
Parliament, and he thought it was a most unwarrantable
interference with the financial arrangements of India.
The whole of the revenue derived from salt might be im-
perilled by the adoption of the clause. and there was no
regulation for its protection. There should be an army of
excisemen spread over the eountry to collect the revenue,
and there was nu such ground to complain of the GOVPIII-
- of India as would induce them to retain this clause.
It would appear that them had been an increased cote
sumptiou of ash, and a decrease of price, and he hoped
their lordships would expunge it.. When they had created
an enlarged legislative council, upon whom would de-
volve the duty of legislation on that and other• subjects,
it was nut a period at which they should interfere for the
first time on a measure strictiy for internal legislation,
nor was it fitting that they should interfere to give
additional profits to certain traders in England at the
expense of the revenue. If they retained this clause they
might rely upon it that ultimately the finances of this
ronntry would be embarrassed to make up the deficiency
that would be thereby occasioned. There was not the
means in India of creating a new tax as a substitute em the
abolition of another : and besides, there was a great indis-
position iu India to pay a new tax."
The Earl of ALBEMARLE regretted that the clause
should be considered an interference with Indian
finance, as he believed that the salt duty was a tax
from which the natives ought to be relieved, and
whose pressure occasioned much hardship and
deprivation.
The clause was then struck out, and the bill passed
through committee.
TRANSPORTATION.
In committee on the Transportation Bill, upon
Tuesday last, Lord PALMERSTON explained the cha-
racter of the measure, and stated the changes which
the Government proposed to introduce in this sec•
tion of our penal jurisprudence. No subject. was
more difficult or important than the question of se-
condary punishment. Adverting to the sanguinary
and barbarous system under which criminals were
dealt with in earlier states of society, and to the
milder feelings which had succeeded as civilisation
advanced, he observed that the infliction of the penalty
of death had now been restricted to offences of the
most flagrant kind, and that minor punishments had
been largely substituted. This question was one of
extreme difficulty. It was desired to make punish-
ment penal upon the offender, and to render it a de-
terring example ; but it was also desirable to avoid
shocking the feelings of the community ; and the
endeavour ought also to be made to combine the
principles of punishment and reformation. The
transportation system had been therefore devised,
and for a long series of years persisted in, until a
change of circumstances, habits, and relationships
with the dependencies thus employed had rendered
some modification indispensable. Our colonies
which had been found eligible to supply the means
of transportation became less so as they advanced in
prosperity, civilisation, and influence. As we had
conceded ►self-government to the colonies, we must
also submit to its consequences. Independently of
this, the discovery of gold would have necessarily
led to a reconsideration of our existing system, for it

AM no longer a punishment to send amen to regions
where the exercise of a small amount of manual la-
bour was likely to create a splendid fortune fur the
transported convict. Under these circumstances, it had
been found necessary to give a careful consideration
to the question, and the result was a proposal that
criminals, after a preliminary imprisonment, should
have tickets of leave in this country for the remain-
ing period of their respective sentences, should their
conduct merit such indulgence. The bill, therefore,
gave power to the criminal judges to alter the nature
of the sentences they pronounced. Hitherto the
Secretary of State had modified the decisions an-
nounced from the judgment-seat, the practice being
that when a culprit was sentenced to transportation
for a given term he never actually left the country as
a prisoner, but, after undergoing confinement for a
time varying from eighteen months downwards, was
then transferred for a further period to slime public
works, and subsequently sent to Australia with a
ticket of leave, entitling him, after some additional
probation, to a full and unconditional pardon. But
now, as offenders could not advantageously be sent
abroad, it was proposed that a certain period should
be assigned corresponding as far as possible with the
interval of the sea voyage and ticketrof-leave prgbor