The Press.
London, England, 1853-08-06 00:00:00

THE PRESS.

diplomatic relation, and that it would be better not to enter
upon such a conference ucless the Emperor of Russia, by
invading the principalities, should for the time, at least, put
an end to the status quo of Europe. When that event oc-
curred the Government of the Emperor of Austria, in con-
tOrmity with the declaration to which they had previously
given expression, announced their willingness to hold the
proposed conference ' . and at Vienna, accordingly, the re-
presentatives of the four other great powers of Europe as-
sembled for the purpose of taking into their consideration
the present state of affairs with respect to RUSSIA and the
Porte. The minister of his Majesty the Emperor of Rus-
sia did not attend upon that occasion ; but the ministers
of France and Prussia and England took part in the con-
ference. Certain terms were then agreed to by the repre-
sentatives of those four powers, which, in their opinion,
might with honour be accepted both by the Government of
Turkey and that of Russia Those terms have been as-
sented to both by the Governments of England and France,
and, according to our belief, have been transmitted from
Vienna to St. Petersburg and Constantinople. In this po-
sition of affairs I think that the house will feel still more,
even than they did upon a former occasion, that it is quite
impossible for me to give it as my opinion that it is de-
sirable to have a discussion upon this question, or to tix a
day upon which a debate may take place with respect to it
in this house. I can assure the house that as the time for
the prorogation of Parliament approaches her Majesty's
ministers will be ready to lay before theta such information
as they may deem it proper to afford before the prorogation
takes place. (Hair, !Intr.)"
Mr. DisuAzu inquired whether the Government
could say at what time an answer to the despatch
which had been transmitted to St. Petersburg might
be expected to reach this country ?

Lord J. RuSSELL : I should not like to hold myself re-
sponsible for naming the particular time at which the an-
swer to which the right hon. gentleman refers may arrive,
or with respect to the number of days which the Russian
Government may take to consider the proposals which
have been submitted to them. Those proposals should
have left Vienna, I think, on Sunday last. The right. hon.
gentleman can, therefore, calculate for himself the time
which will probably elapse in their transmission to St. Pe-
tersburg.
➢lr. IfisitAELl : A phrase occurred in the answer of the
noble lord the meaning of which was rather obscure to
hon. members upon this side of the house. The noble
lord stated that the proposition to which he had alluded
had been agreed to in Vienna, and had received the appro-
bation of the Governments of France and England. It
does not appear, from the statement of the noble lord, that
the Governments of Austria and Prussia had signified their
assent to that proposition.
Lord J. RUSSELL: The proposition was an Austrian pro-
position, although it carne originally from France. 1 have
no doubt that the Government of Prussia is likely to give it
their consent.

CHARITABLE TRUSTS.

This bill, which originated in the Upper House,
stood for committal on Tuesday in the Commons.

Lord J. Russell., in moving that the Speaker leave
the chair, explained the nature and objects of the
measure. Ho reminded the house that, at an
early period of the session, in announcing the gene-
ral views of the Government with respect to educa-
tion, he had urged the necessity of establishing a
better management and an improved application of
the funds of charitable trusts—a subject which had
for more than fifty years engaged the attention of
Parliament. He had stated that it was proposed, as
many of these charities had reference to education,
that the body entrusted with the direction and super-
intendence of their administration should he the
Committee of Privy Council for Education, with the
necessary legal assistance. This bill, while before
the Peers, had been referred to a select committee,
who had paid very great attention to the subject,
and they had recommended, in order to separate
the questions of administration and superintendence
from politics and party, that there should be persons
named by the Crown, and holding office during good
behaviour, to whom the general administration
_

should be confided; in which suggestion the Govern-
ment. had concurred. One or two alterations, how-
ever, he intended to propose in the bill. As it stood,
three salaried commissioners were to be appointed;
but as, after a time, the necessity for so large a staff
might cease, he suggested that one of these appoint-
ments should be made only temporary. Another and
more important change would consist in the omission
of all Roman Catholic charities from the operation of
the bill :

" He was sorry to find on inquiry that these charities
could not he placed under this bill without affecting
pecuniary interests, or unless special provisions were
made with respect to them. The house was, no doubt,
aware of the laws which restricted and limited the manag►-
ment of charities and although these Roman Catholic
charities were very useful, and were such as, he was sure,
the house would wish to continue, yet, f►om their not
having been enrolled under Lord Hardwieke's Act, or front
their not having been made in compliance with the direc-
tions of the law, they were liable entirely to be withdrawn
and destroyed by the operation of this act, unless great
care was taken. Ile did not wish, at that period of the
session, to enter upon the great and important question as
to how far th►►se charities should be maintained. He
therefore proposed doing that which had been done in
the act of DM. appointing the commission of inquiry—
viz., to omit Homan Catholic charities. He did so, not
with the view of omitting them permanently, beesuse he

SATURDAY,

thought great advantage would arise from placing them
under a body of this kind, and that Roman Catholics
would be greatly benefited by any measure which would
prevent the object of their charities being altogether lost
sight of. That, however, would require a separate
bill, and very special proviaious. For the present, there-
fore, he proposed to exempt Roman Catholic charities from
the bill.' _

Going into committee, the house proceeded to
examine the clauses of the bill, which were succes-
sively passed, the consideration of the 66th clause,
involving the amendment respecting Roman Catholic
charities, being deferred, after some debating, to a
later stage.
On Thursday the bill was brought up " for consi-
deration as amended," when Lord JOHN RUSSELL
submitted his modification to the house, having thrown
it into the form of a proviso enacting that Roman
Catholic trusts should be entrusted to persons of
that persuasion.
Sir F. THESIOER expressed some alarm at the pro-
posal. If Roman Catholics were so favoured, why
not Quakers and Jews? He considered that the
clause was not necessary, and, viewing it with rela
tion to other contemporary attempts and incidents,
hinted that it excited serious suspicion as to the
nature of the influences that had been at work upon
the Ministerial mind.

Lord J. RtTssma. explained and defended the
alteration. The Roman Catholics, he said, had been
exempted from the operation of the measure because
they complained and proved that it would seriously
imperil a large number of charitable institutions. If
other sects had advanced similar complaints and
proofs their case would have been equally con-
sidered.

MT. NEWDEGATE protested against a measure by
which the house would give its sanction to the autho-
rity claimed by Cardinal Wiseman, as the nominee of
Rome to deal with Roman Catholic trusts.

Mr. HEADLAM, approving of the change, proposed
an amendment limiting its operation to two years, to
give time for the consideration of some permanent
arrangement.
The proviso, thus amended, was adopted by a
majority of 11, the numbers being 87 to 70, and the
bill was ordered to stand for third reading on
Monday next.

EPISCOPAL AND CAPITULAR ESTATES BILL.
The second reading of this bill being moved on
Wednesday, in the House of Commons, the motion
was opposed by Mr. WIORAM, who adduced various
reasons weighing, not against the principle of the
measure, but against the time of its introduction or
the working effect of some of its details. The session
was too far advanced, he contended, to permit the
full discussion of so important a bill. A commission
issued by the Crown was also still prosecuting in-
quiries into the state of collegiate and cathedral
churches ; and next year the act for facilitating the
enfranchisement of ecclesiastical estates would expire,
with the inevitable consequence of bringing the
whole subject once more under debate. Respecting
the bill itself, though approving of its object, he ob-
jected to some of its machinery. The proposal to
transfer the management of the whole number of
estates in question to a board sitting in London was
extraordinary and hazardous. He feared that such a
scheme could not be carried out without occasioning
an enormous waste of Church property, and leading
to a violation of the duty which the present generation
owed to those who should come after them. He
moved an amendment that the second reading be
postponed to that day three months.
Sir R. H. Isom seconded this amendment, enter-
taining much more serious objections to the bill than
those urged by Mr. Wigram. All the capitular
bodies in the kingdom, he declared, considered the
measure to the last degree inexpedient and unjust.
Mr. S. HERBERT fully admitted that the system
now existing was very faulty, but doubted whether
the noble framer of the bill (the Marquis of Bland-
ford) had devised the most appropriate remedy.
There was, however, no time to discuss the subject
now, nor could the discussion be advantageously
completed before the commissioners had prepared
and presented their report :

" The principle of the bill was twofold: it proposed to
take the whole of the episcopal property of the country,
and to place it in the hands of commissioners ; and it also
proposed to deal with the property of chapters. He was of
opinion that it would be impossible for Parliament satis-
factorily to enter upon the consideration of any scheme
connected with the subject until the report of the com-
missioners had been laid upon the table of the house.
Under those circumstances, he hoped the noble loni would
see the propriety of not pressing the second reading of his
measure. If he should, however, decide upon taking that
course, he ( Mr. S. Herbert) should feel himself compelled
to vote, although reluctantly, against its being read a
second time.
The Marquis of Bt./ism:oat) explained his billomd
vindicated the expediency of allowing it to pass the
second reading. All that he wished the house to
affirm at present was the principle that the land now
in the hands of ecclesiastics should be placed under
the management of laymen. To the admission of

AUGUST 6, 1853.

this principle he conceived no possibility of objection,
since it merely tended to secure the incomes of those
who were connected with the Church in a manner
more befitting their spiritual character and duties
than the mode in which the payment of those incomes
was at present regulated.
Sir B. HALL congratulated the Legislature upon
the advance they were making towards Church reform,
and, after citing some instances of alleged extreme
abuses in relation to Church properties, endeavoured
to extract from Lord J. Russell a recognition of the
necessity of placing on a better footing the distribu-
tion of the enormous capitular and episcopal estates.
Lord J. RUssE►.t., however, would only express his
regret that the supporters of the bill should still
press for a second reading. Detailing the changes
which had been effected in the administration of
Church revenues through the machinery of the Eccle-
siastical Commission, he remarked that the ques-
tion involved in the bill, so far as the members of the
episcopal body were concerned, related, not to the
a►nount of their incomes, but to the mode in which
they were to receive it :

" The original principle to which Parliament adhered
was that laid down by Mr. Burke—that Parliament had no
more right to inquire into the revenue of a bishop than
they had to inquire into the income of a private proprietor.
hoTat principle had been entirely abandoned in the reports
f the commissioners in 1t435 and in subsequent years ;
and it had at length been admitted that, if those revenues
could be distributed inure usefully for the Church, they
should be applied in a new mode for Church purposes,
with the condition, however, that the life interest of the
existing holders was to be respected. But in applying that
new principle the bishops had thought that it could not be
desirable that they should appear as the mere recipients of
salaries for state purposes. They had considered that
episcopal revenues should still be connected with the land;
that bishops should still have the power of managing the
estates of their sees ; that whatever was the sum which
Parliament might think pmper to affix to their offices, their
actual receipts should be allowed to fluctuate according to
the rents which they might receive ; and they wished par-
ticularly that bishops should not be induced to mismanage
their property in any way."

That the system organised by the commissioners in
the first instance was susceptible of improvement
might, he acknowledged, be possible; and the sub-
ject would fairly come for discussion before the
Legislature hereafter. But he questioned whether
the proposition embodied in the bill would tend to
such improvement; and, at all events, was not then
prepared to give any decided opinion on the matter.

Mr. AOLIONBY liming briefly supported the bill,
The Marquis of BLANoroan yielded to the Minis-
terial appeal and consented to withdraw the motion.

The bill is consequently thrown over for the present
session.