The Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1860-06-05 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF. LORDS.—YEEMBUDAY.
The Manchester Corporation Water Bill was read a third
time and passed.
The Earl of Rzrox stated that the report of the Commis-
sioners on Military Defences would shortly be laid before
Parliament,
The Bank of Ireland Bill was read a second time. The
Trustees, Mortgages, &c., Bill passed through committee.
The Public Improvement Bill was read. a third time and
passed.
heir lordships adjourned at fifty-five minutes past five
o'clock.

HOUSE OP COMMONS-YESTERDAY.
The Speaker took the chair at four o'clock.
In reply to Mr. O'Donoghue,
Mr. AYRTON said that he should not proceed with his motion
pledging the House to the repeal of the paper duty, till after
the report of the committee on tax bills had been presented.

In reply to Sir J. Elpbinstone,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the Secretary
for War would, on an early day, state the probable estimates of
the exPenses of The Chinese War, which would, under the
present cirturnstance, eiceed the estimates already, stated to
tie ioliie.'
On the order of the day for going into CCrnitaitiie on 418
Reform!Bill;
Mr. 'LUNT rose to move that it be an instruction to this coal-
mittee that they have power to provide increased facilities for
polling at elections.
The SPEAKER decided that this instruction was irregular,
irasmnch 'as the committee had the power already.
Mr. Hunt unwillingly, and after some'dlicussion, gave wee*
Mr. GRIFFITH rose to move a second instruction. ,
This was likewise pronounced irregular by the speaker, to
whose decision Mr. Griffith yielded with a bad grace.
Mr. Bes-rlNck then rose to move a third instrttetiOn4 that the
committee should not proceed further without giVing a larger
share in the representation tO 'the counties. , ,
The SFEAKERy amid some athusernent, ds'clared this
tion also irregular, as any motion Olt the satject could re
lit-might forward in the cottrilittec itself.
Mr. Ettsrmek, however was not to be pit down. fie urged
the matter. first moving the adjournment of the House, thee
putting it to the House whether the decision of the Speaker
was correct. In so doing he was repeatedly taken to task es
out of order by several members from the other side; end!
was not till after two or three definite declarations from the
chair that he was finally turned out. Mr. Bentinch then pro-
ceeded with the fourth instruction, which the Speaker declared
to be regular. It was to the effect that it be an instruction to
the committee that they have power to make provision for the
better prevention of bribery and corruption et elections. lin
argued the question at great length, contending that the sl5"
tematic corruption at borough elections ought to be put down
before anything else was done with the bill, which ',vat°
increase the opportunities of bribery. Amongst other thing'
he said that he should at the proper time propose that 111
minister .receiving a salary under the Crown should have a
vote in that House. . _

'Lord J. Rvssetr. replied that it would be better to treat th°
subject on its own basis, and not to clog one bill with too mans
extraneous considerations. however, he should have no
objection to the subject of corruption in committee on the bint:
The cotnmittee on electoral corruption h'd already itPeTH.
and sent them down some thirty or forty resolutions,
afforded apaple material for a separate bill ;,but he was not veil
sanguine as to the success of legislative, efforts in putting 4
stop t bribery.
Mr. WRITESIDE declared the effect of the bill would be
highly mischievous if the question of bribery were not first
dealt with. Lord Palmerston had already declared that the
cause of bribery lay in the wishes of the poorer electors to to
bribed; and this was the class of electors which the bill tended
largely to increase. He therefore put it to the good sedge 0,
the noble lord to withdraw his bill, to enable them to proceed
at leisure with a bill for the checking of bribery and cor.
ruption.

Sir G. C. Lewis observed that it was a strange mode of Or
porting instruction to a committee to recommend that the
bill on which that committee was to sit should be withdrawn•
As for; the question of bribery, it could be better considered in
a bill for the amendment of the Corrupt Practices Act.
Mr. KNIGOITLEY recommended the adoption of the system of
taking the poll at elections by means of voting papers.
Mr. WYLD considered that the only means of checking cor-
ruption was by the ballot. He should move, as an addition t/
the instruction that votes should be so taken, considering that
Otherwise the bill would only increase existing evils.
The SPEAKER ruled that this addition was irregular on the
ground that the committee had power already.
Mr. MELLOR'Protested against the motion, as not seriously
meant, but. a dishonest attempt to stop the•bill.
Sir R. CECIL supported the motion, declaring that the ques-
tion of purity was inseparable from• that of reform. The hill
would increase the numbers both of bribers and of briberles•
The principal towns in which bribery now prevailed were Pre"
cpely those to the condition of. which it was proposed t°
assimilate the future constituency of the country. The only
way to stop bribery was by public opinion, and that consum-
mation would be only retarded by the bill under which the
higher classes had no other means of counterbalancing the
influence of the lower classes except by their purses.
Mr. A. Mills likewise supported the instruction, which w 35
opposed by Mr. Mellor, and Mr. Bouverie.
Sir G. GREY intimated that the Government would not °pee°
the instruction if it was understood that it was not to be used
as a means of obstructing the bill.
Mr. Cosstss said that so long as the detection and punish-
ment of bribery was left to private members the practice con"
tinned to Sourish.

Lord J. MaigNERS protested against the imputation that the
Conservatives, by these discussions, desired to impede the•pr°
gress of the bill.
Mr. SLAYEY, adverting to the actual position of the bill, and
the objections to the extent to which it lowered the franchis
recommended for the interest of both sides that a compromise
should be entered into, and that a fresh bill be prepared for
next session. _ _

Mr. D. Gnirrirs objected 'to this imperfect machillery for
punishing bribery, contending that the first step to be taken
ought to be for its repression.
Sir M. FAILQUHAR defended the motives of Mr. Bentinak
proposing this instruction, as at once honest and necessary.
The motion for the proposed instruction was then Weed t 43;
Notices of motions for instructions, that the parliamentary
oath should henceforth be an uniform one, had been placed on
the paper by Mr. Ennis and Mr. Hassard, but the Speaker ruled
that they were irregular, as all such motions must pass through
a parliamentary committee of the whole House.

Lord JOuN RUSSELL explained the course which the Govern-
ment intended to take in the matter. They did not intend pro'
eeeding with the Scotch and Irish bills during the present ses.
sion ; as to the English bill, it was to be considered both in
reference to the objections to the provisions of the bill and 10
the position of public business. The objections had been
mainly urged against the lowering of the borough franebir
Now, hitherto the working classes had been very sparingi/
admitted to the franchise, and the leaders of the Conservative
party had themselves admitted that the franchise should be
reduced. That principle had been directly affirmed by the
votes of the previous year. The Government had introduced
a bill in accordance with that opinion, on which they Might:
perhaps, have placed too much confidence in the workins
classes ; but this was a question not of principle but of degree.
This was a question for a committee, and it was competent fa;
House to raise the standard at its discretion, and woul,,
he fairly considered by the Government, which was not blind'!"
devoted to any degree of the franchise. After having passed the
second reading it was clearly the duty of the House of Coinosnri6
to go at once into committee on the bill. He reprobated delay
till the census of 1861 was completed ; the delay would not
be
less than three years, and would do nothing towards reMoli"
the objections to the bill. The £6 franchise would be in 'l°
way affected by the census. It was said that the session vl
too late, and the business before the House, especially that °
'considering the estimates, too heavy to allow of properly
discussing the question of Reform. Admitting the inaliert
ance of the subjects which still lay before the House'
he denied that these afforded any reason for postli°n_,ings
the present bill, and cited from previous sessions preeedem'aci
which showed that the topic of Parliamentary Reform had
been discussed as late as July, and even August. The affect"
tion of an extreme zeal for economy, and an unwonted desi7
to revise the miscellaneous estimates, looked rather like a el'
to defeat the measure upon the collateral plea of delay. re
bill had been already read a second-time after long discussion,:
and if it were thrown over until another session, all the sv°"'
must be gone over again, to the great waste of public tine
and possibly at ,a period when there might not be, as at Pre-
sent., peace abroad and prosperity at home.
Mr. DISRAELI reviewed the course pursued towards the
bill
by himself and the Conservative party. He had alwel
advocated the right of the working classes to the french
This right he had endeavoured to'recognise in the bill brengl
forward last year. He denied, however, that the-pbttr es
whom he acted had thereby committed themselves to_g
principle of the present measure., That principle Wite•hm
upon numbers, and the bill was founded avowedly upon !fft
on,
returns of numbers, respecting whose accuracy very seris
doubts had been entertained ; inaccuracy upon this Pgi'ioit
might result in most important consequences, and the (1.4,e
_„id
to be determined was not whether the working classes 511,1;ey
enjoy the franchise as a personal right, but whether as
as
should enjoy it in such measure as to become predongnaZis,e.
a class among the constituent elements of the rotes"'
system. Lord John Russell, he observed, had himself bec"
lukewarm in behalf of the question introduced with so mush
parade in the beginning of the session ; two out of the *re
Reform Bills were abandoned, those, namely, relation v,
Ireland and Scotland, and even the English Bill seemed le
oi
for the House to deal with as !t pleased. A partial Itefq..,
Bill applied only to one section of the United Kingdom woo::
leave Parliament in a most dislocated condition ; the prop
to take such a step was unprecedented and unwise, and might
prove highly prejudicial to the country. On various account;
he thought the present moment most inopportune to atte
the settlement of a question so important as that of Parlia-
mentary reform.
Mr. MACKINNON moved an amendment,
to the effect that in
order to obtain a safe and effective reform it would be
i neikpe.
client and unjust to proceed further with the proposed legisla-
tive measure for the representation of the people until the
that a much better
us authorised by the
House had before it the result of th
bill now under consideration.
contendedilinformatlon which the census
bill could be framed upon the
at there was no cause to refuse
would impart, and insisted t • 5 were perfectly apathetic on
the delay, as the working classes the
s
the subject.
conded by Mr H. Stracey. •
The amendment was se
en s
id that the argum t b -
Y which tb
The HOME SECRETARY SA
been supported wore in fasts w
to
amendment had arguments had been often
the defeat of the bill.
similarften refuted.
before advanced, and as o The e emus returns
would not be prepared in time for legislation next ser
sion, so that if the amendment was carried, the bill would be
thrown over. for two years; nor would thOse returns'
convey any information bearing materially upon the question
of representative reform. No useful object would be gained
by delay:
Mr. Gaeosom thought the present opportunity for passing 'I
Reform Bill ought not to be missed.
Mr. BAR.ROW wished to • haie the question postponed until I"
well constructed and permanent measure would be laid before
the house.
Sir F. Gotnsmi •it thought that the ground for delallle
which the amendment was founded was utterly baseless.
supported the motion for going into committee.
Mr. Bovno. contended that the Government bill was based
upon imperfect and inaccurate materials. He counselled the
house to wait until they were in possession of authentie dats•
Mr. E. BAINES opposed the amendment. 4 it,
After some remarks from Sir M. Farquhar in supper,
the debate was adjourned until Thursday. ,
On the Sheriff Court Houses (Scotland) Bill a discussio.!
12t'
arose as to whether the measure and some Scotch bills shoni,.s
he proceeded with at a morning sitting on Tuesday the
instant.
102 ;
On a division there appeared, for the morning sitting, ---
against it, 89. Majority, IV.
The remaining business was disposed of, and the rdonee
adjourned at a quarter past one.

LIABILITY OF RIFLEMEN FOIL TOLLS. A rather
singular case was tried at Bourton before the magis-
trates on Friday. An ensign in the Bristol Volunteer
Rifle Corps summoned the collector at the Arno's Vale
turnpike or illegally receiving a toll of 41d. for a 11°11:
and brougham used in conveying him to drill. 111,
ground of exemption (being on her Majesty's serlicPi
failed, the magistrates considering the carriage 01.1110ei
cessary, and directing the plaintiff to pay costae—Sr/8
Zercury,