The Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1860-03-14 00:00:00

THE SAVOY QUESTION.

Referring to the incessant introduction of the Savoy
question in the House of Commons, the Times remarks
that it seems to be the object of the Opposition to pro-
voke a war, and that the Ministry shall be saddled with
the responsibility of it. Let the war party bring the
question to a division, (which would show what the
opinion of the country really is,) to enable all foreign
powers to put a true estimate upon the intemperate
speeches that have been made.

' After May Ist the Express Tidal Service between
London and Paris will be performed in ten hours.

In some experiments, last week, one of Sir William
Armstrong's guns sent a shot through 41 inches of
wrought iron.

Lord Elgin will return to tawn at the end of the
present week, and will leave for the East at the close of
the month or the first week in April.
An influential meeting of merchants and capitalists
was held yesterday, with the view of considering the
desirableness of forming Banks of India.
A circular. has, been issued, signed by George Potter,
ni—behalf of the United Building Traded, suggesting
the continuance of a small weekly subscription for the
purpose of maintaining the present organisation.
The 4beflle thf Iforj, p4bli.hed at St. Petersburr„
has an article to show that Germany has no interest in
the maintenance of Austrian rule in Italy, 'and that the
arguments used by the Cabinet of Vienna 'in support of
it are without weight.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF lOEDS.—YEsTERDA.r

Lord CHELMSFORD introduced a bill for the Preven-
tion of Sunday Trading. The great incentive was, he
840? the ilityntent of vfagel on Saturday night--ra prac-
tice he greatly deprecated. His bill aligwed §hoir tq
be open only till 'fine on Sunday niernings.
The Attorneys 40 Solicitors dill ils.secl through
committee, as did the Medical Acts Aniendruent

The Administration of Poisons Bill was read a third
time, and passed.
Some other bills Were forwarded a stage ; and the
House adjouined at half-past six. •

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-YESTERDAY.

The Speaker took the chair at four o'clock.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, in reply to Mr. Newdegate,
stated that by article five of the commercial treaty, goods
Of other countries, besides those of France and Algeria,
he adniltt,e4 to this country,
Itqrd d. EussE4, laying papers on the tahle, took the
copper tquity to nialse his promised statement on the subject
of Savoy. Lordltalmesbary, he said, had been inforined
of the proposed anneiatien and bad failed in obtaining
any satisfactory assurance that France entertained no
designs upon that, territory. It was true that he was ,
informed that there was no treaty; but it did not follow
that there was no understanding between France and
Sardinia. Objections had been made to his own poliCil
that, by favouring the annexation of Tuscany to Sardinia,
he had prepared the way forthe annexation of Savoy
to France. He had no such policy. His simple policy
fi as tO'PerinitltalyTto work out her own independence.
yn corrohoration of this declaration;' alleged that'an
interview which he had had with the Tuscan aient,
when he endeavoured to persuade him that the son of
the Grand Duke might be admitted to the Government of
Tuscany. The agent replied that the ducal family had
so entirely identified' himself with the Austrians, that
his return was impossible. When, therefore; he foiind
that the Italians were so determined on their own
opinion, he had. no alternative but t.z), 4bstain froM
th~artgug their wishes. f;or 11P (elf,
9io Sar-
dinia, with 'Lombardy alone gposed to the fegtrisse4
of the Mincio, woad be in 'an unsafe and precarions
condition. They were of opinion that nothing short
of the addition of Tuscany, Romagna, and the duchies
of Parma and Placentia, would have sufficed to have
formed a government sufficiently strong for the purpose
of maintaining order in Italy. Still they had never
been hostile to the restoration of the Grand flake.
They had persisted in their policy of pernaitting the
Italians to work out their qwn independence. They,
thought that the people elmild have the opportMitY of
expressing their opinion by vote. He had been accused
of negligence as to the Savoy annexation, Now be 144
long been acquainted, by letters, with the intention of
,the French,Emperor to ask Savoy, in the event of Sar-
dinia acquiring the States of Central Italy. On the
isubject, in July last year, Count Walewski had declared
1 that the contingency of the annexation of Tuscany to

Sardinia was possible, though at another time he
seemed to admit its probability, as the annexation of
Savoy to France depended upon that of Tuscany
to Sardinia. It was not only useless, it was absurd, for
them to have entered into, protests upon a chance so
remote. When the matter was again brought forward
at the late period, they again stated their decided
objections to the annexation of Savoy. They never
concealed their opini,ms frOm the Emperor of the
French. As for the other Powers, they had not been
consulted by France ; and her Majesty's Ministers
would have gone out of their way to warn those
Powers. It was a matter which lay between them and
France. The Ministers had been further accused of
having neglected the true interests of Europe in favour of
chimerical views of their own regarding the indepen-
dence of Italy. At the Paris Conference of 1859,
though Italy was not properly their subject, yet Lord
Cowley thought it his duty to point out the evils of the
actual condition of the Peninsula—the presence of
foreign troops, and the misgovernment of Naples
Austria would not listen to the proposals for altering her I
conduct, and the late war was the result. After the
Treaty of Zurich the Ministry felt that it was an
European, and therefore an English, object to establish
the position of Italy on a broad and sound basis. They
felt it of so much importance to raise a people so long
trampled down, and to secure the independence of a ,
people so long oppressed, that he felt that they had
done no more than their duty in the course they bad
taken.

. _
Mr. WHITESIDE admitted the soundness and excellence
of the despatches of Lord J. Russell, but complained of
the weakness and negligence with which he followed
them up. The -statements of Count Cavour and the

French Emperor—the one denying. the other admitting
that there was an understanding as to the annexation,
under certain contingencies—were directly at variance ;
and he was bound to say that he believed the Emperor.
Those Contingencies were the annexation of Tuscany to
Sardinia; and her Majesty's Government, by furthering
that annexation, had furthered the annexation of Savoy
to France by a necessary consequence, This was the
argument of the Emperor himself, and it made the British
Government responsible for the confusion which has
followed.' He reprobated the policy of Lord J. Russell,
which gave to all nations the right whenever they chose
to adopt ane wform of government by universal suffrage—
how could they under such a policy expect the reduction of
their war expenditure, or -114 e, fur the tranquillity of
Europe ? He could understand the conduct of the
French Emperor, who had larger views in giving free
trade to England in return for Savoy and Nice. He did
not think the conduct of our .Foreign Minister. was
judicious, and he therefore justified the inquiries which
had been made fOr definite information.

Mr. M. MILNES defended the policy of her Majesty's
Government. lie defended Count Cavour from the im-
putation of Mr. IyhtteSide7his assertions would easily
he reconciled with those of the Emperor. The annexa-
tion of Savoy to France was one of those old national
traditions which no other nation would understand.
The annexation was not new to French history ; it was
proposed by limy the Fourth to Queen Elizabeth,
and acceded to by the British sovereign. It was a sub-
ject which excited the interest of every French citizen,
and it was riot to be wondered at if Prance took the
opportunity and stbmitted the; question to the diplomatic
consideration of Europe. ,
Mr. B. COCHRANE protested against the doctrines
that a nation might at any time change its rulers.
There was no knowing where the principle of a
geographical boundary, Once adopted, would stop.

Mr., HORSMAN admitted the difficulties of the
position of lord John Russell, and would Mid in any
way increasing those difficulties ; but there was, he
believed, an 'alternative besides that of open war--:-.-a
silent acquiescence. There was not a man in the house
who would advocate the former alternative ; but the
present frontiers .of France had been fixed in 1815 on
the principles of European tranquillity, and Sardinia
had no right to grant 13PlIsion which interfered with the
arrangements then made. The great inestion of
frontier involves considerations much larger than
the possession of a small territory. Lord John
Russell had pointed out the danger of further
annexation. Our remaining alternative was to form
alliances with those powers who had an equal interest'
in checking the advance of ;France. This was the.tra-
ditionary policy of former times. What we ought to
hive done was to have formed a direct alliance 'with
Prussia, for the purpose of preventing future danger.
While we ought to have been doing this we were bag-
ging a commercial treaty. While we would not go to
war, a silent acquiesence would be cowardly and undig-
nified, and we ought to have told the Emperor of the
Fren,ch that if be persisted in his design, the conse-
quence would be a European Confederation against him.
Lord HARRY VANE said that it was important, with
a view to the consequence that the House of Commons
should express its opinion. He regretted that so much
of the correspondence had been carried on in private
letters. He trusted that every important ministerial
conversation on the subject of the annexation would be
reported to the lionse,
_ _

After .a few words from Mr. D. Gyiffiths and Mr.

Kinnaird,
Lord PALMERSTON defended the silence of the Govern!!
meat so long as there was any prospect of a Congress ;
but wheti the idea was given I,lp, the Government had
no alternative, but to repeat her remonstrances. It was
admitted on all hands that they aught not to go to war
to prevent the annexation; nor could he coincide in the
opinion that European combination ought to have been
formed. This would only have irritated France, and
caused her to make it a point of honour not to surrender
Savoy. On this subject he agreed in every respect with
the despatches of Lord ,T. Itussell, deeply regretting
that the Emperor had not been contented with his first
success. As for national boundaries, history told them
that they were no defence at all. If other Powers
joined with Piedmont against France, they would not
attack - her through the Savoy passes ; but he did not
believe in the possibility of any such combination.
The danger of the annexation was not a direct one to
England : it arose from the principle and the precedent.
If the principle of identity of language were adopted,
there was no knowing where it wool} step, 4s to
the independence of Switzerland, they would net
make terms on that point while the annexation
was still undecided. They were not yet come to this
point.- In reference to the annexation of the States of
Central Italy to Sardinia, it should be remembered that
the sovereigns of the several states had run away, and
•the people were determined that they shOuld apt come
back. The principles, therefore, which applied tg
those 'states did not apply to Savoy. He con-
tended that all along the Government • had
pursued the proper course in urging on France the
earnest and friendly remonstrance of this country
against the annexation of Savoy, He was persnaded
that the OW Powers would bold the same firm and
dispassiouate opiiiion, and he c 4414 nut divest himself
of the impression that the government of France would
see that it would gain more by preserving. the pod
opinion'of Europe, and disarming its suspictons, than
by acquiring a comparatively unimportant territory.
As to the Italian question, he trusted that the creation
of a great northern power in Italy would place her in
the position of greatness and civilisation she had already
twice occupied during the Roman Empire and the period
of the revival of literature. He bore testimony to the
temper and statesmanlike qualities, during the past year,
of the Italians in general, and defended the conduct of
Ct h it Cavour in particular.
DISRA.Ep said that he 1,4 neither advoCated
War qr finltirqpean confederagy against pie annexation of
Savoy. He had reCoMmended a protest, Mit the same
course had been Firsiled by Lord obn #tissell himself
in the case of Cracow. The noble lord, in his explana-
tions of to-night, seemed to hate fnrgoften Savq3'.
altogether-he gaye no information. Ile did not
deny that be had ample and complete notice of
the .plans of the French government ; and an indif-
ference on the subject, and the careless manner
in which he treated the ' information, argued a
great want of judgment and perception. His
silence to that House and' to foreign powers was
equally to be blamed. He strongly reprobated the
practice of diplomatic correspondence in private letters,
affording an excuse for the withholding of information.
At the beginning of the present year when Switzerland
was urgerit'in her anxiety, he did not 4nd that anything
was done to remonstrate with the French Emperor,
v%-hile' at the sante tiine, the GidTeriuneht was pOsuing
q ell to bring
about. the annexation of savoy to France. Ile
course • in: /ta Y best Ole lat '
the very
denied that the Gevei-nnient ha any right to coin-
-Plain of these discussions as irritating to foreign powers.
The house, without expressing approval or blame, had
a right to demand information, and, when that infor-
mation was supplied, had the further right to demand
explanations. The policy of France throughout
had been frank, open, and straightforward. She
had given timely notice of her intentions, and we
had nothing to complain of in her proceedings. She
had renounced the policy of annexation, except in the
'Case of the ultra-aggrandisement of Sardinia by the
:addition of Tuscany and the uchies. This might be
-the test' tnlicY for It 'D
,1%1!1 §4llal, rte tbe
annexation of Savoy as the price of ostahlisnment of
a great power in Italy ; but we had no right to turn
round and accuse France, France could vn ot be irritated by
these discussions, though they might injure some one else.
The policy of France involved the great principle of the
natural boundaries of empire, and required to be watched'
with the ° 0-reatest consideration. We had no reason to
complain of France, but her policy was none the less
fraught with danger; and the Government which had
assisted that policy was responsible to history and the
ii.INgLAIs.:E said that it was gratifying to believe
that the annexation would not take place without the
consent of the Great Powers, as he inferred from the
msiniterial statement. But why was this not brought
at once to an issue ? He denied that those who brought
forward the question were in favour of war; and asked
why the Government trusted rather to the Emperor of
the French than to the House of Commons. The
official correspondence had nothing in reality about it,
for it was evident that the
Emperor of the French paid
•no ttention 'Whateyei p the remonstrances.' - '
Mr. S.FTTZGERALD said that it was now evident that
Fraiice inteided te tiroceed to the annexation--withcriit
pensultiug eit4,r the Great Powers
or the people Of
Savoy,
After some remarks from Mr. B. Osborne, and a few
words in reply from Lord J. Russell, the papers were
laid'upon the table.
Colonel SYKES moved for some returns connected
with the Indian army, and was, proceeding with his
remarks ifben the Tiotoe was counted out at 10.15,