The Stourbridge Observer, Cradley Heath, Halesowen & District Chronicle.
Stourbridge, West Midlands, England, 1873-10-25 00:00:00

THE STOURBRMGE OBSSRVEtt.

walking °abide the park with Mu Doughty, and hays
walked with thorn. I have lean them at Chariton, and at
Cold [Demur.
- -

Trary—itti-4; In what year/
WlMees From 18444 to 1849.
Mr. Justice Lath: Do yos mean every year?
The Lord Chief Julio.: All the three yeart 1
Wltmete:. Yet.

Ai;11-ra.til;i7 of the year could not ha the time.
A Juryman : And Miss Doughty was bore In IS3L
Witness : She spptared to be .but 15 or 16 when I saw
her in 1849. I can give no other description of her than that
she was quite • young lady.
Mr. II swkir.s objected to the evidence.
The Lord Chief Justice : He can't give you any other de-
scription. Your queetloa Is very general.
Mr. Justice Mellor: I have the strongeet opinion that the
e64e.11:41 is Ir.holly irrelevant.

Mr. Kenealy: Your lordship. will we what I have In my
mind. dome youug ladles are marriageable at 18, some hot

-Mr. Justice Lush: She was only 12 years of age In
1246.

Mr. henesly : My question refers to 1540.
Witness: I have stea them walking in the summer and in
the winter. Roger's VNItI to Tichhonie o-eunied shoot 10
days. I don't know that he spent halt his vscati um there.
.11 him about that time and In the evening. I first taw
the defendant In April, IVO, or 1871, at Mr. Jortou's, and
attorney, In Bediord-row,
By Mr. Justice Mellor: I wadi not examined in the Let
irtaL

Witness I did not then have a long interview with him
—scarcely of live miLutes' dur4lon. I roc %Used the
twitching of the rye, the shape of the forehead, and his
habit of pulling his fingers. Roger used to do it when
he was cross, •ered, or stodying. I saw the defendant
in the following Jana at Harley Lodge. I mked Min
If he amid remember the lost time I saw him or spoke
to him; where it wee; If he was standing, sitting, or
rid g; who he was with, and what he did. lie con-
entered for a lOW intimtes, am! said, "The last time
I saw you I was riding with my cousin Kate in front
of Brand's (the keeper) I struck you with ivy whin.
and wished you good-bye." That was correct Roger,
Min Doughty, and mystlf were the only persona then pre-
sent. I asked him whore we went on the last occasion I was
with him, lie replied, "The llohborne Downs public-
house." I asked him what we had to drink, and if we were
smoking. He immediately replied, "We had di plasma of
grog, a cigar, and some tobacco," and added, " I hare slot
paid you for it from that day to this—it was my turn to
stand treat." The whole of the answer was correct.
The Lord Chief Justice You remember the sts glaaies?
Witness: Yen_ _ .

Ti:Or-ci Cirel Jostles: You remember that

With..: Yea.

By Mr. KenyaHy I asked him how he got out evenings.
He said sometime, out of the dining and drawing-room win.
down, and sometimes over the back gates. I flaw him get out
of the drawing-room window and over the stable gates. I
asked him if he could toil me the signal when he
was not oat tie stated immediately that It was •
shrill his/le. It he was not at the appointed spot I
blew a whistle. lie also said, In reply to my question,
that we only had beer at Chick's because It was
an unlieensed house, and that the house we called the
" Hole In the Wall " was at Clitheridge, both of which was
correct. lie also said he met me close to the entrance to the
ehapel adjoining Mill:urns House when ittheridge ran after
him with his !Intl tor beating the cats We had always to run
away from Etheridge, because we were always teasing him
You bad only to say to him, "Hive you finished that little
job, John," referring to something that happened at
Milburn° House, and you had to clear the course. I
allOd the defendant Lf he could remember whether or
not he wont to Guy's after Itherldge's Incident to have
• glass of ale. He said no, we did not, because he fan-
cied, he said, sir Edward was up in the village, and they
went the other may to escape being seen by any of the
family- We went Into a plantation, and laid down and
smoked. It was all correct. We used on these occasions
to most a*veral girls and take • walk with them. The
defendant reminded me of many things that happened.
lie asked me if remembered meeting two girls In Cheri-
too etilage and taking them to Garnby Down, • mile and a
quarter from the village. I told him I did. I asked
him whose arrvents they were. lie replied to the best of
his build that they were Hubbard's (the clergyman), I
asked Alm what time we left there, and where we went
afterwards. He said we called sat Cola's and went back
again to Tichliorne Down. I then asked him how he got
home that night, and he replied, " You went •• far as the
park gates with me, and, in fact, you were nearly tight."

- -
By M. Justlos Mellor; All :indent:Lod, the word
means drunk. _

-Wrin;;;Eliecldedly. my lord. (Laughter.)
Mr. Kenealy And It means loam.
Mr. J.(Mloe Mellor: How do you tuiderstand lt
%Mame Drunt. (Laughter.l

By Mr. Kamm : I think the convenatlon then ended.
We had others on the seine day I wired him what
occurred when the HAL hounds threw cif at Tichborne
Houle—which may they drew. We were walking at the
time. Ile Raid, " Volley," a cover on the top a the hill
I remember the occasion, because there wes a certain young
lady with me then. I was 17 or Id yeas of age at this
time. I left my muter before my live lean' apprentice-
ship expired, on account of • disagreement between my
muter and my friend.. I remember seeing Roger and P 41,.
Doughty at the lovers' Neat OD three or four oocaslons. On
1,110 occasion, in particular, 'then I was not very well pleased,
bee.. I thought he had one of my girls there. (Latighter). I
did uot know at the time who the lady was, (Laughter).
The Lord Chief Justice : Was It late to the evenag
Witness Between four and live o'clock
The Lord Chief Justice : What time of the year?
Witham fiercest time.

il;l7l;i6hT;f—J-u'st-.17a-; What 'ear I
Witheu : I beltave 1,6

By Mr. lionealy I fmt.nd I was mistaken, and I walked
eft down the path From toy stoon.l Int.rvlew alth the
deft, .!ant, I e. 1.0 1.. the eLpeultudi nt that he Is lt,ger Itch-

Hy Vie Lord 0114 Justice I taw him the inwoloi time to
ask him some further question&

Crosewramined by Mr. Hawkins: I called on the defend-
ant at Harley Lodge on the 2Sth April, 1070 or 1871, I
believe. I don't think I could fled It out now. Mr. Gorton
a•ked me to call on the defends nt I beileve It was In
1071 that I saw the defendat t I fix the 28111 of Aprli as
the day I called on biro from no particular reason.
I believe it was on a Wednesday or Thursday, on the 27th
or Llith April. It was en one of thee, days In one of
those years I was not examined at the last trial. I com-
IlltniCakti the remit of my ...int in•erview to Mr. Meow,
I Chi him that I tsellevtd the defendant was Roger
'Claiborne. I believe I told Mr. (halo. the next day. Ile
knew that I wa going to tee the defendant. I did not teU
him the conversation that passed, and he did not sot I
told him I had had a conversation with the defendant. I knew
Gorton was a lawyer, but not whether he was an attorney.
(Laughter) I taw him at Ma oftloe in Bedford row. Ms MM.
WSS on the door. He was not a banister, and of course he
must have been an attorney—l knew he was. Mr.
Scurbough, at,other todator, or attorney, in Spring.
gardens, sent me to Horton. Mr Rule, clerk at the Admiralty,
asked meta call on Mr. ticarbough, and he sent me to Mr.
Gerton at belt g the attorney of the defendant. I went to
him as tut tiorton aaked me to go to ilarley Lodge, and a
week or ten days after I went back to his (Mce and commit-
nioated to to what had paned between me and the defend-
ant at Rule, Lodge, but I was not called as a witness on the
last trial. / AS not min teued. I did not know that Mr
Scarbough was. coeditor of the defendant's. I was a pore°.
Wed in October, Itth, for dye years. I did not leave at •
moment's moths,

Mr flelrldre Where you nos disullered 1
Wltheadi No. .

Mr R.kln How long wss It before you left I
Witnesa Three days I was taken away by my father. I
swear Ilr u not dismissed. It was mutually agreed between
my mother and father that I eh mid leave. My father ob-
jected to my being out so late at night playing billiards. My
master liked It. He tiled to taloa me out very often on
spree& He used to go down to fichborue Downs public-
house.

Mr. Hawkins: To meet these young ladles
Witnese : No. Sometimes my master waited up for me.
Al other time.! got ~vet the gates He died almost directly
I loft In IMO. Both Interviews with the defendant were at
Il.aley Lodge. The first was at (lotion's, audi think once
or twice at Harley Lodge.

- -
Mr. Juatte• Lugh: You aald you tint law him In April at
Gortoa 4, ant at Harley Lodge In June?

Wltn.ss : I had not peen Mr. Scerbough before going to
Gorton's.

--'117.-11astirins You sail Scarhough sent you to him. Yes
—I am thinking—Mr. Scszbough sent me. I first thought I
went to him on my own account I went to the Senior's-
house to see the defendant, and I saw him leave lot
his carriage. It wee summer time. 1 clid not speak
to him became I was twenty yards distant. I had
then no opportunity of seeing him to recognise
him. That was before I went to Gorton's. It must
have been sin months or more before that. Ills
walk In getting to the brouglum reminded me cf
Roger Ylchborne. I mentioned it to many persons,
but I did not communicate it to any of his solicitors. I
wrote to Mr. Holmes in 1887. I made no endeavour to see
the defendant between 1867 and 1870, or 1871. I was living
In 1867 at Portamouth, and engaged In the dockyar.l as a
clerk. I was employed at the Admiralty when I called on
the defendant at Harley L.nige. I was at the Admiralty
in 1870, but curiosity did not take me to me my old
friend, or oommunloate with him or his attorney for
twelve months and more. 1 could not get into
the court. 1 never asked to go Into court. I
came by the court morning after morning fr. no Victoria
Station to see him I did not know that Banter. Rose, and
Norton's °MON were MY:aorta street, I walked no the street
on the chance of seeing my old friend. I don't know when
I first sow Mr. Onslow. It must have been in June, 1870. I
won't swear to it. I don't recollect. I knew Mr. Ouslow
wren I lived at Alresford. I told Mr. Onslow that I knew
Roger Tichborn• when he was staying with oir gdfrard
Doughty, and that I used to be out at night with him.
-- • • • -

•••—•
Mr. Hawkins told the witness not to repeat every ques-
tion before he answered it. It was often don* to gain time.
Mr. %mealy t Perhaps you w say he is speaking falsely /
?dr. Hankins t Very likely.
Wilgus: I will not swear that I told Mr (Miaow shout the
girls I told him 1 had seen Rorer and Miss Doughty
walking together. I told him I had wen them at
the lovers' seat and other places. I did not Is II him
this In June, 1470, but I aid &Romania I saw Mr.
()endow about 20 times or less In 1870. He give Ina
several order. for the House of Comnedis. My brothers
had Mathew relstlons with Mr. Onslow. They worked
for him as builders. I wee not • clerk to the Tloltborne
Defence Fund Committee. I went to the office very often to
see Captain Hunt. I told Mr. °tallow several times that 1
had ACM Roger and Rote together. I assisted the Defence
Fend Committee but I was not paid for IL It was li, April
or May that Miss Doughty Introduced Boger to me 11.4
her cousin from Paris. I sew him there only for • few
days. I did not see them then at the lovers' seat or on
Tichborne pewits. It was In 1840 that I wounded hints
the arm. It was somewhere In the summer I tlon't know
that I have wild It was In May. 1 will not swear to the
Preclae date. I left Roger with Ms arm bleeding whilst I
went • mile Into 1 iehhOrne to fetch some strapping. The
event took piece at • spot halfway between Ain gotta and
Tichborne Holum The beerhouse on Hobbes... Downs was
Gloom!, and when I got back with the strapping he was wait-
ing ohttdde. 11w.. between ten anti eleven o'clock, or •
little later. It was a moonlight night.

By the Lord Chief Justice I thick the wound must have
gone deep into the arm. By moonlight it looked deep. Ike
Iron point of the stick was about half an inch long.
Mr. Hawkins : You looked at the wound on the top of
the arm by moonlight, and then you saw no tattoo
marks under the arm t—Witness : There were none there
This stick was a goad that I had made for protection.
I had beep stopped two or three time, by some men—
eom• robbers when out late at night, and I had this
bait loch spike goad made for protection. I was once robbed
at night by two men. They took all the money I bad in my
pocket, which was not much. It was after that I adopted
the stick. I did not give up going out late at nights. I
really mean what I may. I forget iii gave notice to the police.
I believe I told the sergeant of it, but I don't know if liquiries
were made Etter the robbery. They were never found. Old
Chick, the beerhouse keeper, I believe now lives in Win-
chester. There is the particular trick in the defendant
of raising the eiebrows. They constantly twitched when
I knew him Roger had a high forehead, but I took no
particular notice whether it was square, or anything about
tie nose or chin. lie was very white In the face and
thin. I won't swear If his cheeks were full or tt they sank
In.
Br a Amman : Can you describe his shoulders
Witness: I cannot
By My liawklns: Can you give me the date when you last
tow Roger?

Witness: I won't swear to the date. It was a day or two
before he )(Anon the army. I was returning from Tichborne
House, where I had been with eome goods.
The Lord Chief Justine : What time of the year.
Witness . In September on October.

By Mr. Hawkins : Mr. (Miaow never asked me where I
saw Soler last, and I did not tell Mm. I am not aware
that Gorton asked me the question_ lie might have asked
me, and I might have told him, and what occurred. I
law to-day the statement I made to Mr. Gorton in
Mr. fismourt's poswesaion. I won't swear if it was in
11.47, 1848, or 1848 that I we. with Boger in the rich-
borne Downs public-house. We were there several time. • painter of Alresford, and • man called Alfred
Bryant, were there on one occasion. I can't account for
Um defendant's forgetting my name, and my prodding
him with my stick. I don't know how to answer it.
I remember paying la. 10 for the grog., the cigar, and
the tobacco. It was his torn to pay, but I did net ask
law to pay me when be wished we good-by. I should
have talked him lt Mite Doughty hid not been them

nfflarer

I nun molted how many knobs of -eltallu—
in the grog, bemuse I never take sugar. Ur! tm°.'" •"'
cigar, and I smoked and chewed the Whim.. I can't name
another instance when I recollect the enact amount of Nu ,r
and tobacco consumed, and the amount paid. Ido recollect
ones at the 11. 11. public hones at Cheriton we had lour
allude. each That was nothint.
Br the Lord Chief Justice What, four Flavin ntleh_.,teg!,
W Knees it wasonly four It. glasses. We have "."
arnl6d gleams of gln •nd water. I most have a peculiar
memory to recollect everything.
Mr. Ranking I agree with you.
Witneas Bryant, who In now in Australia, CAB cartoborate
me In the them nocturnal rambles.. I can't mune any ono
- BOMB.

•
By a Juryman: He wait dreseed as usual— generally
with a jacket on—not ID an evening dress. Old John
Etberidgd hod the flail in iota hand when he ran up to
Roger. I don't IMOW if he had it up to strike him. We
also>. gave &hoiden a turn. It Is one of the first
gs I should think IC rger would hale femora-
-1,. ed. I don't knelw the name of the Rev. Mr.
Huiriard's eirvanta I never did. 1 have net seen them
since. I don's know what they were AC long se they
wore in petticoats was eniiugh for Ma. We went veltu
them to Cloud, r-down. They were absent lon their
master's house philandering about llander.down It only
happened ones with them. We Were both tight " when
we got to the park gates, and we licth remembeired it. I
have never had grog and • cl r rtith the defendant at HU-
ley Lodge.
Re.essmined : I have had no inducement held out by
Mr. Ong° w or any other person to give evidence. I
dressed Roger's wiiund in the arm once with ointment.
By the L ird Chief Justin., : I don't know the time of
year Roger came home to fichborue for his holidays. I
never took any particular notice I don't know when
Miss Doughty cart e hornetor her holidays in 1010, VAL and
1818. Before going to Brentwood Hived at Triornton-heath,
near Croydon.
By Mr. Justice Mellor : I wu never asked to glee ',Menne
on the last trial.

WILLIAM HAMM : 1 keep the "twin," at West Peek)
ham. I was in Melbourne I. the latter part of July, 1094.'
I had the gold fever. (Laughter). Tee epidemic win raging;
everybody WU infected. The bay WAS full of shipping widt
ins for sailors. I was at a horse sale at the M'lver dlcgtmge
In 11:05, and siaw a man three who parsed as Arthur Orion.
His master wu a one-eyed man, called L' Blind Oeorgy."
Orton win a tall, nw•boned man, with a light en:opinion.
He had • soar on his face. I knew Chinaman Hat, 12.) miles
from Melbourne. In 18691 there bought, a hone from Orton
for El 5. I took • receipt for It.
Mr. Burkina: And I produce it.
Wanes.: I gave it up to the Treasury. The paper pro
dursed is the lame. The body of it wee written by isi)Cirath,
and signed "A J Reid," an follows :—" Maryport, October
10, 1160. Sold to Mr. William Haycock, • light bay horse,
atar on forehead, branded 40. supposed to be blotched
neat the shoulder on the side of the neck, for XIS. I asked
him why he dtd not sten the receipt In the name I knew him
by. He mid, "You don't go by your right name" I said, .1
know that." Ile and, ' Your right Dame Is not English
BBL " That wee the same I was than going by. Toe C00...241m
...241m then atoned.
By Mr. J nation Lush What became of the horse
Witness : Ile stole it back again
By Ur. Justice Leah: How soon afterwards?
Witness: About three days afterwards. (Laughter.)
By Mr. Kanealy Wceu 1 met him sin we,ka sf car I taxed
him with it, lle asked me what I would glee him if he were
to run it in where I could get it. I and a £6 note. The
defendant does not bear any resemblance to the man who
sold ma the horse.
- -

----
Croes-examtned by Mr. Ilawklns : I hod to keen the horse
close to enjoy It for three days. lie sAel me the horse, then
Mole It, sold It to some one else, and then agreed to steal It
back again. I did not get the horse back, and I did not pay
the L. 5 11 Is • common thing to change names In Aus-
tealta. I did not know any one called Reid. tirton was at
lit 'leer Diggings about. week attending horse sales. I went
by three namna—" Jemmy Docka" (laughter), then English
Bill," and then my own name.
• ---

By Mr. Julie, mono,: I saw Orton three tlmes In Igs7 on
the Big River, 11.,ree dealing. I never elm him with any
thing but horses. I first saw bin, just before Christmse,
1855. I never saw him stock driving. I always signed my
own name, 4. M Miens Lime ,ek."
By a Juryman : I only knew one MALI named Orion.

EDWARD MARSHALL I SDI a shipowner, of North Shields.
I eos i liflo in ittel. I was then captain of the brig Ocean
Child I knew • man nvmed Brown there. 1 was intro
toned to him In llobb's store. I afterwards occasionally saw
him in the streets. I was in London last week, and called
on hint at his boom In ,isttoo.street. I can't swear to his
being the lame man I saw in Rio I had a conversation stilt
hint I was at Rio wheu the Bala galled. I Maw Captain
Birkett. _

by the Lord Chief Juattce : I law Idm the day before the
Bella sailed.

By 2dr..itiatloe Mefloe: Was be a sober or drunken man
Witness I was only in his company one evening. with •
number 4,t other cantatas. I wa. Introduced to Captain
°stem. They mei to spend the tvai.ing si a public house
kept by • widow at Santa Cruz.
RICHARD FOORD lam. farmer at Garton In Hampshire.
I know Sue nalru erected by Colonel George Greenwood. I
knew young MM.:nue, and I saw him avowal times asaisting
lu the cairn. 00 one oa.c.sion I slipped and spoke to them.
I hey hail their arms bare. I lid not see any marks of tattoo
ou Roger's arm. I saw him on one or two oc melons. When
I saw the defendant at Alreelord I thought I recognised Me
smile.
The Court then adj ,ureed.

The further hearing of the COM was rammed on
Tuesday morning.

WILLIAM W. iirLrirr : I ME a banker in Winchester. and
• msgiatrate f r thc c runty of llantia I knew 11., kyr e sales
Elehbome 1 • •,n the defes•dant, and 1 I,lleve Inus
he ,ar It .ger mine D.Aighty lichnonic, Bart. In lebruns7,
18,57, Go.f .ret viii. ii me at Winchester. I did not In an)
~,anuuta,ate tile result of our couvLesation to the de-
fendant, and I es pudiate and deny in very strong terms such
• charge. I remember the dinner at the "Grosvenor" In June,
18.17 0 Ilford said the sealed packet was In London with all
his lettere.

(roes examined by Mr. Hawkins : I can't lay I Was nOt 111
on Friday. I was suffering front rheumatic gout and
Winter e. This was the eels cause of my not going Into
the Court. I hal no medical attendant, I attended to
myself I left the Court immediately alter It broke up. I
dlis ‘is the defendant after the C sort a j June I. I .to not
recolltet having a conversation with the delendent
after my letter was read In Court an Friday. I went
across to the cif] liter was there ; I had • conversation
w:th hhu, but I cool remeenner It. I was at the 1,01,e are
or ten minutes. lam In a state of absolute forgethilnws
.11 the point. I went home by the three o'clock
train. I first elute, lot , the City, to get my let:gage hr .m
my lig club. My illness un Friday was my eole object
for not going 1..t0 the hi I expressed on Friday morn.
lug an unwtilb,gnees to g t into the box. I Old
not wish further t Interfere In the case. I expressed the
sterns unwillingness, no doubt, tn the mhicl'e of the
day. I was In the pawage of the Court remonstrating
eg dust being put rut the wienesa-Ina I wild my evidence,
hi was weak, compared with what hail been
given ou th s trial. I did it say that If I went into the witness,
le.x It inuet be at the peril of tbose who put me In, or any-
thing to that effect. 1 renunstrited against it after
luncheon time. I was first in the passage, but I old Lot
hear my IMMO announced. I was afterwards it Into the
Ball Court on nocourtt of the cold. It was known where
.118. Mr. Lipscomb° Is a medical man at Aire.
fold I don't know If he we. the medical atten-
dant of She Tlchborne family. Mr Llpsoombe is
still alive I have never lead any conversation respect-
ing the subject of t! e trial with Mr. Llpsootube. I only
raw it .ger four or five times e-r,n to hie leaving In
February, 1,53, and then only In the hunting. field. I
never exchanged a word with him. I never saw him In the
hunting field in the spring of 1i.52 or 1853. I can't remember
whether it was In 1852 or 18(3, or how noon It was after Christ.
max—whether it was January, February, or March. can't
say II I aaw him the four or five times in the year. To the
beat of my recollection I new him four or five times. I don't
remember the fint or the last year that I saw him I was in
the habit of hunting once a week,

IV Mr. Justice Lush: Do you remember how he was
dressed ?

Witi ess In scarlet. I can't Ray when I first beard that
the defendant was coming to &gland. I don't know If It was
In the early part or summer of 1866 or the end of that year.
can't tell you. I tint saw htm early In 1687. It was not on
the nith of hi arch. I have sworn it WAS, and corrected it In
my evidence. Al early as the 21.1 July, 1867. I did
Say that I Bret saw him ,n the 28th of March, 1887,
and repeated It on the first trial, and afterwards cor-
rected It. Mr. Holmes made a mistake In my urn lava.. I
saw the defendant on both days, •Is, the 19th of March,
and again on the 28th. I repeated the 28.11 on the trial, and.
I believe, it clamed much oonfualon, and gay. • great deal of
trouble. I now any Vut 1 first saw tam on the 19th Starch
to Mr. Hohnee's office. I first became acqu,loted with Mr
Holmes In January or February, 1887. I have • copy of
my diary which will refresh my meincry by referrlni to It

The Lord Cclel Justice said he could not do so. Re could
refer to his diuy. lie auggeeted wnether It might not be
permitted, without the date waa materiaL

Mr. llawklos sold be preferred having the diary. There were
some witheaces to whom • greater latitude could be given
than to °Wen.

_,.,,—....
Mr. Ketimlyol.jected to such Imputations being made.
The witneu mid he thousht he could rely on his memory.
I don't think I received • letkr from the defendant before
the 10th M arch. The letter produced, addressed to Mr.
Holum., dated 22nd F.bruary, 1867, In in my handwriting. It
reminds me that I must Imm rem Iced • letter from
the derendant, but I don't know where it Is. It doer not
produce an Independent recolkottm of It in my own
Mind. I did not take an ec•ive part in advancing the de-
fendant's cause before he strived in England In 1810. y
don't reeollect causing paragraphs to be Inserted In the
Winchester paper.. I may have done so, bat I have
no recollection about it. I don't mean to deny It, but I
can't remember It. I have no recollection of writing to
the defendant liefore the 10 hof March, 1867. I did not,
so early RS IPA March, 18 7, place e. 600 to hie credit.
Permlialon was given to him to draw to that extent, but
not so early as Maroh, 1807. It ISA fabrication, the sentence
In the defendant's letter to Mr If 'phi,., dated lii h March,
1867, that ho lead received • letter from Mesa.. Belpitt
and HMI that morning. talLiog him that they I ad placed
£.3.00 to Ids credit at the bank at Alresford. I believe it wite
nut done before M Hat or 22,,d March. It RAS about the
limo lane him at Mr. Holmes* ofil C. I mild on the former
trial Stint It was offered • few dm 8 before hew the dean ,ant.
I afterwards corrected It. I don't believe I made the offer of
li.. corny bolero I saw the deft n taint at Mr Holmes', gLinCe.
My 1mpr,...10/11., that I did not. My WM., Is spelt " Bulpett "
lame the eefendarit at Mr. liolmea's on the 19:b. I had called
terms' times M fore to know bow the Tichborne cum walf
going on. I had nothing to do with it icy MA, than any other
public man. l went ihtre las a matter of curiosity. I became
ou good term, sod very friendly with Mr. Holmes and the de-
fendant, ad, I hope, with everybody else,

• . _ •
The Lrd Chief Justice le that the Dense tu which you use
the words "friendly terms" ?

When 'W
—e- meet we are Just as friendly as over we
were. I mean I have more regard for him than mankind in
general. I know hint better then Ida you. (Laughter.) I am
on friendly terms now witi Mr. Holmes and the defendant.
I have only seen him once elect, the last trial, and, then I
met Mtn by accident in a railway carries e and shook hands
with him. It war an accidental circumstance my calling at
Holmes's on the 19th, and seeing the defendant there. I had
previously talked over the matter with HOD,DeII and Spoken
of money, Rod DO doubt I told Min of the offer of £lOO. I
think I discussed with hint what the defendant had been
doing since his arrival In England. I knew that 0 isford had
bad an interview with the defendant early In January at
Gravesend. Mr. Gosford early In February told me that he
had had a deal of cony, mutton with Wm. He occupied two
hour. In salting about the defendant and his I tarview
With him at G aaaaaa nd. Ile might have said that he put a
variety of questions to Nut, but I don't remember that he
repeated them to me. 1 thldit he mentlon.d s imethlng
aivint • ride he had with Roger frorn Tided Farm to
Tichborne, and morn, accident happening, but I don't
remember that he send the defendant could not recollect
it. Gosford told me the circumstances. 1 can't remember
if he called the defendant 'tan Impostor" or Roger
Tichbonie. Something was aide' about Upton, but I
have such an imperfect recollection of it that I can
give no satlataotory DcOopot of it. I know we entertained
different opinions, and at that time I mu wider the tot.
erasion that the defendant was the right man, having
formed my opinion without seeing him. I wu mit in-
terested to know Mr. Goateed's impression after seeing
the defendant. I think he took pains to 'einem me
with the belief that the defendant was not Roger Tick-
borne. He was talking to me about it for two hews.
I d. n't remember Lie mentioning Iho island at Upton,
poacher', or Roger's dogs; but I think Slaughter's name was
mentioned in connection with • dog-cart. It went Is at one
ear and out at the other, and I can't recollect what Goateed
said to me about him interview with the defendant, and
what passed between them. II wee, however, the main
topic of our conversation for two hours. I do not
recollect the particulars in which he said the defendant
was in error. I don't remember telling Mr. Holmes what
Hr. Goaf ord said to me about the interview. Goateed men-
tioned Hopkins's name, but I don't remember IS. being
connected with the will, Goeford saying the defendant
was wrong in stating that !tontine made his will. I
don't recollect if I repeated bionford's statement to
any one. I did not recognise the defendant at
Hohnua's for some 1131nUSOIL lie presented a very dit•
lerent appearance to the yorlDß man I had seen In the
Minting neld. I never wail Roger's banker. (A letter
of the 21t1i of March, 1707, from the defendant to Mr.
Unite° was ref erred to, tu which the defendant mid,
"I met my old banker, Balpltt, of Wiacheile.

fli knew me in • minute sad placed .1600 101
my credit.) I new the defendant on the 20th of
March, entirely by accident, at Mr. Holinea's dace.
theeo her.
n ioLi
m June.
.un, ac.l,
to bleercilte usorteci
oat
:urowdsr drikeirer,
dinner on
together, bet I did not state so In my letter of invitation
to Mr. °Word. 1 mentioned to him mpestatily at
dinner that the defendant was coming with his feta and
that Mhe objected to me et them I would send the home
again, and one evades should net be iderfered with. I
don't think (Wilford proposed to go out for • stroll before
I told him wh as
o w coming. I have no recollection til
any proposal to go out The welter bronslit In three
cards—the defendant's ; Mr. Woad aria • gentleman of
Independent means, something of a Spanish merchatt —he
was not a friend of mine: dui also of a Mr. Wheeler,
• large hop fader. 1 was the instrumetit uuder
the advice of counsel, to obtain the meeting between
G,,sfond and the deldelant. The tact gentlemen on re
to ho witnesses. I attended with Mr. Holmes the con-
sultation with counsel u[mu the point. I did rot tell His.
ford of it. They were strangers to roe. I only knew them
from seeing them at Mr. Holmes's. They were Holmes's french,
said no scqsalutances of mine. 1010 not ascertains if tiny loet
knower Roger. I believe they were ItcoMesie clients, I
d think Hingston and White Were It the cordalta.
then with counsel Mr. Holm, was my advisor on that
point. I went to the consultation at his request. I asked
no questions about it, because I knew Its object was the pos.
sibility of Godord recognising the defendant. That was the
oi Jed of the meeting. At that time Oaf old was indebted to
roe .e6eo or £6lO, mut 1 have duce loran.o that was a folutid•
able sum to him.
To the Lord Chief Justice: Tie course I was to pursue was
pointed out lit consultation and the meeting was droned
with the knowledge of the defendant's mother.
To Mr. Hawkins At that consultation I don't recollect
saying that Goeford had seen the defendant. reported to me
what had passed, and pvinounced him an imposter. lam
not prepared to say whither I did make that observation or
mot. We were under the impression that Got f rd's mind WU
very much unsettled on the point, and that he mieht be
brought over. We thought that if he arid the defendent
were brought together it would be the means of saving a mat
deal of legal expanses, and thereby preventing the estates
being utterly ruined by attorneys and gentlemen of the her.
(Laughter.) My feeling was to do • service. Hoboes knew
I was a creditor of Gmford's.
The Lord Chief Justice I hope that was not stated at the
Consultation Y—lt was not.
His lordship seld he was glad to hear it.
The wituessi having added that It was not mentioned to
connect, said he had suggested bimetal that he would be the
beat person to see Goateed. He had employed Holmes
afterwards as his solicitor, but not to take proceediugs
against Goaded in respect of his debt.
To the Lord Chief Justice : I did not give Gosford's In.
dentedness to mess a reason for my Mug the beat person
to give him the invitation to dinner.
Mr. Jastice Mellor remarked it was an unusual tidos; for a
booker to communicate to another his trahsectious with a
customer.
The witness n-plied that, whether imprudent or not, It
dropped out to conversation with Holmes. He had dined
with White and Holms, at a club to the City before the
meeting at the "Grosvenor." Mr. Buipett was then cross-era-
mit el at great length as to what passed at the dinner, and
especially respecting the sealed packet. Ile admitted that he
said at the time that the question put by Goof ord to the de-
fendant sato timeesied packet was a " straightforward" one.
and also that the d efendant said he did not rein em her anything
aboutthe contents. On the other hand he ass erted that Gm! ord
said he had got the sealed packet among his letters in Lon-
don. Believed Gosford previously replied to the defendant,
No matter where the packet is.' Goeford said that if Its
did not know the contente, he could not be it ogee Tichborne.
Ile did not remember Gosford raying after the meeting that
he believed the defendant was an impostor. the Impression
was that no opinion was given or expreweed that night.
Relieved he had said that Goldoni and the defendant
recognised each other. That was the impression on his ndud.
From iCC spoutane nts and natural sway In which the questions
were put and answered it was impossible, he thought, to
suppose that they did not know each other before.
Give as • single thing which occurred that would satisfy
any human being they knew each other before?
the witness said one thing was the defendant answering
that he j•iined hi. regiment at Canierlinry.
Tile Lord Chief Jnettce : Are you aware he did not join the
regiment there f—No.
Why, that was the bat place he was at, lie jollied the
regiment at Portobello barracks I did not know that.
(L slighter).
Mr. Hawkins : Give us anotherithlng that occurred t—When
Goldoni aslool the defendwit why he left the army no said
because he owed between £3OO and £4OO.
The Lord Chief Justice: Did you know he owed that
money f—l did not.
Asked to mention another instance, he said the defen-
dant spoke of the words that passed between Sir Edward
and his father, but he (witness) did not know anything
about the matter. Crated to give other Instances, he said
he couLit not ie.:oiled unless he was allowed to rater to a
hook containing a newspaper report of his evidence, which
1 e explained was lent to Min by old Reload last Saturday.
Ile di, u. 4 remember at the timed the meeting whether he
"fte wilinslll engaged in raising money for the iiefendaut.
Told Holmes that it was estrange thing that the defendant
if Id not know the cnteuts of the sealed packed. Did not recoi-
led asking either Gosford or the el efendaut w hat the corded'
wore, or saying to Holmes that they ought to ascertain the
c lamas. In July, 1,67, wieirested that Godord should be
crossexamiced broore or 'looped with the object of seeing
what had become of the sealed packet. Iliseett him crown
examined on the Ist, f August, and say that he hat deatroyed
It. Until then herd. heard Mot the defendant hail even
suggested the contents. Th- fide, dant's version f the con.
teats was placed in witness's hands, and he said It bore 13
own Mitt 'ls, with the 10'h of August when he first raw it
Holmes asked him to out h• initial; butt 1,, ord r to Ideutif
It all a tIOCUMeI.t Comitot Ir. in the defendant, In case any-
thing sh mid banjona to him (toluow)
By My Hawkins Am I to Yu deritasd ibid yen put your
Initials to the document fr. In the reason emigne ?
Witness: Yea 1 don't believe that I spoke to the
defendant about It afterwards. Mr. Holmes read the
contents to me. and at lint I hesitated to initial it. be-
cause it was a delicate natter with which I did not wish
to nave sto thing to do lie did not tell nee that
It W. the deioudant's recollection of what was in
the sealed packet. The document speaks for Itself.
There had been no endeavour to recollect the con-
tents of the waled packet, so far as I knew, fr• m the
6th Jane mitt! the 211c1 Augni.t. I did not apply to
Creator-I to know tithe ccutents were there I might have
meetioned the contents to son» one. but l have DO distinct
recollection of it Its contents were known to me and
Holmes hut I don't know if they were communicate-I to ally
one, it might have been mouth nod in oomoany. [here was
• famine abroad as to Its contents. I ilent ronem,wr
who mentioned it as a remorse. I don't remember how idiom
5,,,r Gostor.l It.tmsen the 10th August arid the former trial.
1 have no recolle don of communlcatiog with him about the
contents. I can't explain why 1 did not. I have no
explanation to "den. I made an affidavit on the 2rol of
July. Idr. Boles never segge tied t s me that 005 f ~rd
sh aid lie appled to or that it should he kept secret Ido
not think he eld toil Me to keep the contend secret. 1 never
saw it Irom the 10th August urtti it was produced at the last
trial. by AM 'evil was prepared portly by Adam and partly
by Holmes. It was done in • great hurry, and there were
▪ .me toweling shoat it I believe it was rend over to me
b-fore I signed it I did not immediately identify the defer,-
d ant when he crud. Into Mr. I inm's office, but tome affida-
vit I ~,nee that I di I indne:lately I sew time, and that l.rns so
• it at his identity dist I placed £6OOlO his credit. After
looking at him attentively for • few nitwit. I identified him I
had not given him tow' r t drsw £5OO before that meeting.
That I swear. I sla•ed on the former trill that it was thret
or tom days before I saw hint. I did nt swear it inn my
second examination. I will swear I hail not authorised the
advance before I saw him. On the last trial 1 sw.-re that I
did, but I den't think it was correct I adhere to all I stated
or, thy hat trial. Ido not rentemhr r the row tient put to
me, nor my answers on the last trial now resit to me.
The Lord Chief Justice: There was no definite amount
pinned to the defendant's credit, but be was allowed to draw
to the extent of L5•:0.
Wane., I &nit mention In my affidavit that it struck
me as odd that the defendant did not remember the
c oder,te el the wale I packet. I did not know at the
" Grosvenor ' dinner whether the defendant's answers were
correct. In My affidavit I state that Hi 'ford admitted
that the reasons given by the defendant for leaving the
army wire correct. I have no means now of judging what
my :pinion then was. I did not know that In January,
1061, Gosford's •ftielavlts had been filed In Chancery.
ilou't remember saying to Balgent's father In 1,68 that if I
did not hear from lioelord 1D 11 day or two the law mud take
it• mmrse. I Was not actuated from nr.y P.ty mnii,e lie
Ignored me altogether at the Law Institution, and I thought
he would pay me. The debt was of long standing, mid not
hearing from him I put the matter IoSO the hands of Mr.
Lewis, of the Old Jewry. 1.1 July, PM, I remember
thedefendaht was inquiries about a vesiel caned the Therais,
which picked him up I don't remember if the Mende ut went
to Liverpool_ or that the mate had been fouled. lam not
aware that I oommunicated with Mr. Holmes on the sub-
ject. My memory Is a blank upon It I heard • commissloa
was going to Chill. I did not read the communications from
Atistneila. I received two, :did not being able to read them,
1 forwarded them to Mr. Holmes. I cared nothing dons
them.
The witness's aM lavit in Chancery was put in and read.

Reexamined llosford came to ine because Sir. Hopkins
would not see him, or had refused him admission to his house,
islet that is howl had the two hours inierview with him. I
was Sir James's banker, but not exclusively no. We had
massy hank transactions with Sir Henry. there was a degree
of nucertainty in Glosford• mind that Induded use to have
the last intdrview with hiss. If we hae: known he was
se mucli einbarraased we should perhaps have acted
differently. I hey., no disttuct reeollecdon of the details ot
ti,, consultation. IA WILII mentioned as desirable to bring
about a meeting bete et n Oceford and the defendant Mr.
L c oh Webb advised It la vontultstion, °sal to the
t pineal that prevail.' of Goateed's mind being undecided.
I think tlingston and White were within hearing about the.,
sealed packet, and I think they took notes 01 the con-
versation The &trident declined to give an acoduat of
tins contents of the milled packet. I mean he hesitated
very noich The question was premed upon hon, and
he then AftllL .1 don't remern'es anything about
It," Toe defer &nit was cool and collected during the
'nversatton. Goford made two d &Irani stiteineAs
sees: the sealed packet —one in edaticsey, an I the
t.thee at the Law Institution. My impression Is that
II does told me me. Sly Imp-melon is that Holm,
tom me there was • con,ultati In with unmet and the
defendant alter ()milord's examination at the LAW
I,.sti too, anti they stated that unless the defendant
made a clean breast of It (the seated packet) tiny wdalti
throw up their brief.. At the Law institution Gosford
gored me. I want to him to shake hands wit;,
when It mker anti DdMeson sail, 'oirnko him off, shake !
him off. iii. a breach of faith to speak to him" I turned
and went away. It was alter the censultation un the sealed
pa••ket that the defendant wrote his statement that I after-
wards bins' ed. 0 Word Obi me at the' tico,youter" that the
defendant's answers were true and correct.
_ . . . . . .

rhe Lord Uhler Jostice UI. feet oak; ,t to htvo been
brought out In extutiont'on In chit?, to be trots examined
apom
Mr. Remaly : I lett It for counsel on the other side to get
ou'.

-71i.e Lord Chief Jest!. : Tad la not the right wry to con-
ducts ease.

-
Mr. Keuealy I think It O.
The Lord Chief JetLo: I am ;uro It la not.
WitneFe : Gorford tazd with me. lio+kkr handed the
money over to my clerk.
By a Juryman : I ne,r asked the defendant II the content+
of too document Were true
The Court thtn again adjourned.

The trial was resumed at the usual hour on Wednes-
day m
EDWARD (ityIMICII, son of a wine Merchant In Wirrchester,
said fie was in the employ of Price and backer, auctiw errs
arid storekeepers in Ml,ueoe, in ps-,3 and 1554, and about
September in the latter year he recollected their Tr (wiring
g.yods In store narked Owrey, on account of G. f. Leans, a
Melbourne merchant They were brought up to Melbourne
In lighters, stud consisted of American goods—tin cases of
lobsters, oysters, sod Jams, barrels of flour, she vol handles,
mincing &hovels, doors, awl wiudow-sashes. Part of the
goods were sold by Price and backer
To the Jury r Did not see the bill of lading.

To the Lord Chief Just!ce Did you know how Mr. G. T
Evans become posaessed of the goods—whether they wae
consigned to him or buught by him.

Examination continued : Recollected In the same month
a subscription being got up for some ship erected sailors.
and he subscribed to it. The gold h..ver was strong an
through 18.64, and there were continual rustles from one
diggings to another. in consequence of the great number
of ships in the bay, the staff at the Custom-house was in-
sufficient, and people had great difficulty in getting their
goods passed. In infra he was ill . the service of
another employer, Throckmortun, a lighterman, who
in that year became posseued of an 0.-prof • dis-
mantled ship, evidently of American band. When he
Mat saw her she had been dismantled and turned Into a
,Ighter. U. could not as, how many masts she had, as her
deck had been ripped up. Vessels BO COUVerkil into lighters
were need to convey goods from ships in the bay to the
Queen's Wharf, Melbourne. Her length VMS about 120 feet.
At that time such lighters were used as store ships in the
bay, and he had known good. kept on bow d of there or
three mouths together. Neves saw the Osprey after la.
o,ns-examined by Mr Hankins . La, Ynday ass the
first time he heard about cooing to .•ourt. posainly no might
haos mentioned his story before then. Last Malay week lie
nauatisaml it to Andrews, cuseh builder, of V. Inchester H.
had had a conappondonce with Mx. Gulintoid Onalow on the