The Dorset County Express and Agricultural Gazette.
Dorchester, Dorset, England, 1859-08-02 00:00:00

FRIDAY,

At the morning sitting, on the order for going into
Committee upon the Income-tax, kc., Bill,
Mr. PiGorr waived an amendment of which he had
givim notice, to reduce the proposed assessment on
trades and professions from 44. to 2d. in the pound, but
he protested against this tax being made a part of the
permanent income of the country.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY WM of opinion that if there bad
been • moderate watchfulness over the expenditure, and
a gradual increase of the taxation, an addition to the
income-tax would have been altogether unnecessary.
Colonel SYKES, MY. SPOONER, and Mr. BENTINCE sug-
gested various objections, general and particular, to the
tax, which were replied to briefly by the CHANCELLOR
of the EXCHEQUER, and the House then went into Com-
mittee upon the Bill, the clauses of which were agreed
to, with an amendment moved by the Cusscituou of
the EXCHEQUER.
The House then resolved itself into a Committee of
Supply upon the remaining Civil Service Estimates, the
discussion of which occupied the rest of the sitting.
In the evening, on the motion that the House at its
rising do adjourn until Monday,
Mr. SCULLY &Aril the First Lord of the Treasury
whether the Sovereign of the Rowan States had filially

"tier or deeline'i the ponition et President OM the
Co crate States of Italy ; and whether, in the event
of the :Sovereign Pontiff acoeptin that office, it was
intended, on the part of Her Majesty's Government, to
adopt effectual steps fer establishing direct diplomatic
relation.i with the Court of Mome.
Mr. leenriset inquired whether there was any inten-
tion en the part of Her Majnty's Government to rabice
the naval arrmonent of the country, observing that the
announcement of the intention of the Emperor el the
French to disarui was no reason for reducing our arma-
ments, but that it was the duty el the Government to
continue to put our defences, pulite, and naval, on
an efficient footing. He related, as an argument against
relaxing our exactions, a dialogue between the tweeter
of the French and a rtistinguished person, which bad
been reported to him on the rubject of the French navy.
Mr. LINDSIT, Lord Lorm3r, and Lord ASHLEY
deprecated any reduction of our navy.
Lord PALNYEInTON, in reply to Mr. Scully, said be
was not competent to give an answer as to the intention
of the Pope, as the Confederation had not been formed,
and we bad no relations with the Pope that would lead
him to give us any infortuation upon the subject, and
with respect to the latter part of the question he ex-
plained the state of our relations with the Court of
Rome. In answer to Mr. Bentinck's question, Lord
FA Lill:lien's mid he might cimtent himself with saying
that the question must depend upon • great variety of
circumstances. At the same time, he might say that,
assuming the ground epee which the question was put,
that the Eniperor of the French had declared his
intention to reduce his naval and military establish-
ments, it would be premature for the Government to
give any information as to what they would do in con-
sequence of an event that had not yet happened. He
had no hesitation, however, in saying that it would be
impossible for the Government to enter into any agree-
ment for the reduction of our establishments, naval or
military, dependent upon the measures of another
Government; and the House must remember that other
Powers besides France had navies, and our friendly
relations with them might alter, no that our naval and
military arrangements depended not upon a single
Power, but the Government might be called upon any
day to protect the various iuterests of the country.
Other questions having been put and answered, the
motion for adjournment was agreed to.
NATIONAL DEFENCES. . .

On the motion that the House do resolve itself into a
Committee uf Supply,
Mr. HUSSMAN, after a preliminary review and mitt-
clam of the foreign policy of the Government, referred
to the state of our works of defence at !some and abroad,
the sums expended upon them, their defective condition,
and the time that would be required to complete them
at the present rate of proceeding. If these works were
to be done at all, they ought, he observed, to be done
at once, and, as the Government had plans which had
been well considered and toward which the House had
voted considerable sums, his object was, instead of
voting the money by driblete, that it should be raised
at once, and the works completed without delay He
moved. accordingly, 'That the expense of completing
the necessary works of national defence projected or
already in progress should be met by a fund specially
provided for that purpose, and independent of the
annual rotas of Parliament." He urged with great
earnestness the necessity of carrying our defensive pre-
parations, naval and military, to the highest point of
completeness, believing at some future time in the pos-
sibility of a war with France, because he saw that the
Emperor of France believed in this possibility from the
preparations be had made, all indicative of a gigantic
enterprise, at some day or other, against a great naval
Power. Adverting to the recent announcement in the
Moniker, he remarked that France was as much above
the requirements of • peace establishment as England
was below them, and that, whatever might be done
by any foreign State, there was • minimum of power
below which this country ought never to fall, and the
House ought to raise our defences to that AIR i/OUSt
pOIRS.
Mr. S. HERBERT, declining to follow Mr. Horstnan
into his discussion of foreign politics, and declaring
that the Government had, and could have, no offensive
designs, observed that, if he touched upon the question
of our defences, it was to show the measures we ought
to take to put this country in a state of security. He
agreed in the necessity of putting our great arsenals, the
depositaries of reproductive power for our army and
navy, in a proper state of defence, and in the unpro-
tected condition of seine of those arsenals. The Commis-
-61011 lately voted by the House bad this object in view.
Some members had desired to extend the field of its in.
; but what be wanted was not to shelve the ques-
then, but to have advice upon a specific subject, and the
inquiries of the Commission would be beconfinedto that.
The first thing was to learn from tbe Commission what
was to be dune, and then to do it; but in the meantime
no work was stopped, and no time would be lost. Until
the Cuimishiea had reported, the Government could
not ask Parliament for a vote; they would then give
their moat anxious consideration to the subject.
Sir F. SMITH thought Mr. Hors:lien's motion prema-
ture before the Commission had completed its inquiries.
Sir C. NAPIER dwelt upon the defective manning of
our navy, which he attributed to the mismanagement of
the Admiralty. With a properly manned navy hs in-
sisted that there would be no occasion to waste money
upon fortifications.
Mr. Comae observed that it would appear as if we
had arrived at a state of things when old appliances
were of no use. Enormous sums had been voted for the
army and navy, and, haring done all this, Mr. Horsman
said we lid not the eiMinitim of the establishment we
ought to have, and Sir C. Napier had told the House
that every man in the country must be set to work.
lie rose to suggest to the House whether there :night
not be another view of the subject, and whether gentle- 1
men might not be in a state of panic. He °Leopard
the English navy with that of France in 1852 and 1858,
whence it appeared that, in 1858 we had 288 steamers
more than in 1852, while France bad only 142; of sail-
ing vessels we had three less in 1858 than in 1852, and
France 114. Taking both steam vessels and sailing
vessels, we had 2115 vessels more than in 1852, and
France only *.N. In the calculation of the respective
, 1111Vie4 we bad omitted corvettes, the most important
class of war vessels, for he had been told that our large
line-of-battle ships would in time of war be mere
slaughter-houses. He condemned in strong terms, its
disgraceful to our policy, what he termed the prepara-
tions for war with France while the mouths of our
Ministers were. filled with expressions of confidence, and
even adulation, towards its Sovereign, and lie called
upon the House to give expression to an opinion con-
demnatory of such a state of things. He denied that
there was any ground for supposing that the Emperor
of the French or the French people bad any design to
make war upon this country. Ile admitted that cir-
ounistances gave us • legitimate right to have a larger
marine forte than France by one-third, but France, he
said, bad never pretended to have the same naval
strength as ours. He thought an amicable explanation
would adjust this matter. If, after such explanation,
the French Govermueut persisted in maintaining a naval
rivalry, 'ne would cheerfully vote increased estimates.
But where was the obdade to such explanation between
countries ostensibly friendly? For God's sake, then,
let not the people be burdened one moment longer than
was absolutely necessary.
Sir J. PAKINGTON observed that Mr. Cobden's coup
p?xison of the navel strength of England with that of
}ranee was erroneous)/ reason of his having included
in the number of English vessels gunboats, of extremely
small size, to the number of 160. Mr. Cobden had
spoken of a panic; but did he mean that we ought to
trust to amicable professions, without taking any
measures of defence and making up past arrears ? lie
regretted that Mr. S. Herbert had not said bow far he
concurred in the spirit of Mr. Honiman's proposal, or
whether we were to go on, year after year, spending
driblets of money for the fortifications of our harboers
and arsenals. He warned the Government that alarp
addition to the expenditure for the navy would bo
necessary next year.
Lord C. PAGET corrected the impression which Mr.
Cobilen's statement might have made as to the rela-
tive state of the English and French navies. The
French, be said, had Lk) line-of-battle ships in commis-
and 12 in reserve, equal to ships in commission,
making a total of 32. We had 26 line-of-battle ships in
comundon, and 9 blockships, so that our proportion
was not that to which, in Mr. Cobden's opinion, we
were entitled. But there was another nation which
was increasing her navy,—namely Russia, which had 8
screw line-of-battle ships, 6 screw frigates, and 9 pad-
dle frigates.
Mr. BEN TIBER and Mr. NEWDEG ATE spoke in favour
of Mr. Horsinan's motion.
Lord H. VANE recommended that it should not be
pressed, and
Lord PALMERSTON said he concluded that Mr. Hors-
man had accomplished the object he had in view, to im-
press upon the House the great necessity of completing
the fortifications for the defence of our navalarsenals and
dockyards, and that these defensive measures indi-
cated no desire on the part of this country to go to
war, or to give umbrage to any Power, but were
founded uponthe commonsense principle that a nation
desirous of peace should be able to defend itself against
any sudden attack. He hoped, therefore, that he
would he satisfied with the result—s very useful result
—and not press his motion to a division, winch it
might be inconvenient to affirm in the abstract without
indicating how the fund was to be provided.
A division was, however, called for by 11r. Horsman,
which resulted in the motion being negatived by 167
to 70.
The Report of the Committee of Supply was brought
up and agreed to.
The remaining orders and motions were then gone
through without discussion, and the House adjourned
at 10 minutes past 1 o'clock.