The Stourbridge Observer, Cradley Heath, Halesowen & District Chronicle.
Stourbridge, West Midlands, England, 1873-05-17 00:00:00

LORD DERBY ON THRIFT.

There was a large attendance on Friday in last week,
at the tin-t annual meeting of the Provident Know-
'. dge Society in the large hall of Willie's Rooms,
London. The Earl of Derby wee in the chair, and he
was supported by the Lord Bishop of Exeter, Sir
Charles E. Trevelyan, Sir William Fraser, Mr. Thomas
Hughes. M.P., Mr. Baillie Cochrane, M.P., Mr. George
C. T. Bartley, Mr. P. Le N. Foster. Letters of ap-
proval and regret had been received from Mr. Monsen,
M.P., Mr. Plimsoll, M.P., and Dr. Allen.

The Hon. Secretary, Mr. Bartley. being called on to
make his statement, said the society is in brief a pro-
paganda of the Post Office financial schemes, which
it makes known by sending lecturers about the
country, and by publishing papers, 12,000 of which
have been sold, either separately or in batches, to
large employers of labour. It has established 23 Penny
Banks within the last four or five months, and pro-
cured the appointment of one collector, according to
the Act of Parliament relating to such Post Office
Banks and collectors. In 14 of three banks there are
1,000 depositors, and money is coming in at the rate of
£5O per week.
Lord Derby said :
tulles and Gentlemen,—Sorne of you who have come to
this meeting to hear what we have to say, and who have
listened to the report of the secretary, may, perhaps, he In-
clined to ask—and it is • very natural questlon—" %Vhat is
the use of another .octetyl Are we u.,t already overdone
with associations of every sort and land—good, bad, and In-
different , and eau It be either necessary or desirable to add
to the number?' That is the question which would natu-
rally have occurred to me had I come here as a stranger. I
suppose, therewre, It may have occurred to many of }oil,
and I will try and answer It to the Mat of my power. but
shall be shorter than I otherwise would have been because
we have—and I rejoice to see It—the support on this plat-
form of many eminent persona who can speak with greater
authority than I on this subject, and are better qualified to
glee an opinion on the working of this society. Ido not
apprehend that any one Is likely to dispute this
general proposition, that one of our weak p ints, taking
this nation as a whole, is a singular want of frumPity and
prudence In private affairs. The old proverb says, '• Plenty
and pains aellom go together," and posstbly It is because we
make our money faster than mast other countries that we
rprnd it faster also. The Americans equal no, perhaps ex
reed us, In both re-p-ct', ant it rosy Imitate certain absence
of cauttoo, a certain relurt Ince to cohtemplale the posst.
Nifty of things going wrong, • vague or:mildews that the
future must be even more prosperous than the present, are
traits of charact.r inherent In, and Inseparable from, the
natilre of /1 pr.gressive sml enerret,c pulite At any rate,
the charac..ei isiic of whicli I sin ohm. hut a new t e. "else
notices it in a remarkable pamphlet on what ee should now
call the organization of charity, which reads, hating only a
few quaint and obsolete phras,•s, as If it Mel been written
yesterday instead of ne.rly 200 }ears ago. Ile says:—

_
" Goad husbandry is no lingllsh virtue. It may have been
brought over. and In some places where It has ',sin pliit.d
It has thriven well enntieh, bat It Is • foreign species—It
n. ither loves nor is beloved by an Englishman." And he
g scion
. _ .

"This ebiervation I have made between foreigners and
Englishmen, that where an florin holey earns 20, a week and
hue just lives as we call it, a Dutchman grows rich, and
leaves his children in very rood viindition."
I just eliseree in passim? that 20u a week In Denim tltno
would he about equal, taking the altered value of money, to
GO,. a week Dow. Again, he says:—

" 'ltem 's nothing more fregutnt than for an F,^glishman
to work WI he hay got his pot,set full of money, sod then go
and idle, and perhips drink till all's gone, and pm haus him.
self in debt; and sale him in his cups what he Intends, he'll
tell yon honestly he'll drink as long es it lasts, and then go
and work for more."

Now, I don't venture to use such plain speaking as Defoe
did. I hope things are better now . but I quote these pas-
sages to show that the some tendencies among our people
which thoie who know them best moat deeply regret In our
own day existed two centuries ago In full force, and we

not, -therefore, either talk as it we had a new evil to deal
with, a creation of recent ideas and times, or, on the other
hand, as If it were one which we could reasonably expect to
get rid of easily in • few years. For my own part, I am a
great believer In the permanence of national character. I
hold that you may modify It In some degree, you may soften
down its peculiarities and correct its faults, yet you cannot
radically alter it, and in our own can, I must add, I see
no meson why we should wish that were possible. Oar
English people have *limy. been, It they are now, patient
of labour, anxious to rain themselves; not env-lona of
those who succeed (and that I. • great matter ; willing
to make great exertions in pursuit of wealth, nut lima able,
In general, to keep it when acquired than acquire it; and
rather too much inclined to consider the squandering of
capital as • sign via generous disposition, and the propen-
sity to save as evidence of tielflahnesa and menaces. I
don't waste your tens (in this pretence) in atoppmg to refute
that fallecy. I only notice the f let that It is popular and
widespread Ido not suppose that we shall change; and I
must add this, that, In what I have said, I am not at all con.
fining myself to thoPe whom we vaguely describe aa the work-
ing classes. Rich and poor, we are all tarred with one brush ;
and I utterly disclaim the &naive and ungracious odic, of
lecturing only those who have very little to spare on the duty
of laying by for the future, while that same duty is noto-
riously neglected by many thousands in classes wherei ts per-
formance would be comparatively easy. What we contend
for is this, that habits of prudence and forethought in money
matters are far from being common in this country, and that
to et deavour to encourage them is one of the most practical
forms which areal; thoughtful benevolence Can assume.
- -

---
Look, for one thing, at the working of the County Courts.
Why, one.halr their buslueta would be swept away eta atroke
If the custom of buying on credit were to disappear, or, ad.
milting that, in the uncertainty of the labour market, it can.
not be expected to die tppear altogether, If at least it wore
to become the exception and not the rule. Look, again, at
the popular complainte—often very well.founded complaint/
—about the aduPerstion of arttcles of food bought by the
poor. What ts the explanation of frauds of that kind being
possible and even habitual 7 Why, as often as not, the cause
is—one cense at least I.—that the customer is In debt ;
that he meat take the ai tide which Is offered him at the price
at which it t, offered, and that If be refuses, not only will
be get nothing else instead, bet he knows that he mey be
County-courted for a debt which he cannot pay. There Is
the w h .le ae I take it, of the SUCeell of those Well-
toilets which are called co-operative storm. There Is no
magic in the name or in the thing they can sell cheaply
because tiny Emile no bad debt., and they make no had
debts because those who mime to them have no option
except to pay ready money. You niey educate • mau a.
highly rie you please ; y.ei may give him the franchise, and
call upon lean to exercise it as often us you thick lit , you
they provide the beet newspepere in the world to tell him
what Is going on, and museums and galleries without end to
cultivate his taste; but no amount of political freedom, or
of literary culture, or refinement will carry with them the
cense of iudependence or of wit-respect no lobe as he knows
that he le in somebody else's power, that he has on hie
shoulders a burden of debt from which he cannot shake him-
self loom. That is a slavery almost as degrading, and, lam
afraid, almost as common as the kindred slavery of drunken-
DNS And I may nay, in taming, that if temperate habit.
are likely to keep a man from debt, as the afircetles of
temperance are Rhea,, and very truly telling us, so, on OW
other Mend, there Is nothing more likely to create In-
temperate habits than the perpetual hamming, worry, and
anxiety of prcin iary embarrassment., while nothing can
more effectually eoutirm In any man the resolution to keep
meleer than the desire to lay by, in youth and middle life,
what ism be a pre•teien for eickneee, for old age, for the
widow whom lie may leave, or for the children who may
C.41/0 after him. What we contend for, briefly, te this—
that a very large part of the suffering which we all deplore
is cause.l by want of habits of eci nem), and forethooght
that where people have been accustomed for many years to
lire front band to month, it la all but Impossible, aa
rule, to Mile., them to change their habits ; that the ham
of /widow lose to be beforehand with the wort!, if it it to
hr 'saluted at all, must be acquired early ; but that it la
r,owto mqulred, KS a rule, simply Oceans.* in very (OW places
*v.o any sedum, attempt been mete to teach it. It le not
telight by pre ept at school , It is net taught by exempt*, at
home.

Again, we say that It Is, not enou ;h to establish savings-
h nits and expect that people will go to there. We nowt
bring the bank. to the people. If we don't Co that the
meteor is faulty, Just in the name way AB the m stem 01 drain-
age le faulty In some newly built places, wnere sou have an
excellent sewer running under the streeta, tilt where nobody
has taken care to tee that the honsedlrains have any
connection with It. Those who arrepractically conversant
with friendly societies, penny hanks, and institutions of
that kind, could give you curious illustrations of the
willingness of people to avail themselvat of these thing.
II they are brought literally home to their doors, and of
their indifference all I dislike to use them if the using
them involves going only • few hundred yard. out of their
way. One friend hue said to me, 'The people I look
after would be willing enough to use the Post office
Savings-bank, but it la a little way off, across the road, and
they can't take the trouble of going over to it," In the
stridence taken before the Friendly Societies COMllliaaoll, It
Is dated by • renews that 25 per cent. was allowed by •
friendly society in Scotland to persons who would bring their
own subscriptione to the office. But though we generally
credit our Scotch countrymen with being pretty careful of
then. own Interests, it is stated that this allowasce was not
taken advantage of ; the depositors preferred paying a kill •
hilittls:WathyeacnoPpe:stsoirogwohnel; 11."Ilebeli"eyte";htsirin
walking a
the North
of England tnwne a very similar state of things exists, and
that many friendly societies Mad it impoludble to get en with-
out nicking that enormous alloaance, 25 per cent, to the
collector. Wb want to try and re nedy that state of things.
We want to m, kis has ray for • working mart to threat his
spare cash it, • men.ta bank or in. safe Insurance or a de-
ferred annuity fork,. old age, an it a row to invest ill,, a
glees of beer to accompliah the hatter ol feet be I.as seldom
far logo; and •,0 bedreve that there are thonsanes who
would "e glad tneuch, when they get their wager, to put
therreelvea out of the way of tit,ltta,loll 'afar su a part of
their earnings le concorned, who would Wadi, bend them
over to any collector whom they could trips if they were
able to dose un the sp.., but who if that opportunity is Oat
are not likely to have anything in lay by Dela day or the day
after.

One el our ohjects is to suggest and encourage the esta-
blishment of bachelor arnAll savings, commonly callel penny
banks, in every Owe of business where many men are em-
ployed, the collector to beappointed by tb• men Qamseiverk

and it rscoimised, an he probably would be, by the Post-
niece he would also act aa the agent for Insurances and
deferred annuities ander that department. At present
neither of their two useful arrangements has beoome at all
common in the artisan clue, not, I believe, from ally pran
lathe against either one or the other, but almply because
the Idea Is new and has not vet made Its way. lam told
by our secretsry, Mr. Bartley, that in one place where
machinery of this klnd has been established by the Society's
agency and advice, In the Met day SO men out of 400
joined %depositing £6; very shortly afterwards the number
had increased to Ina, and It is still Increasinp. Now, in
this instance all the facilities that DOW wait for laying
hg existed before, with the exception of one, and that ohs
missing link made all the difference. Formerly it was
necessary for all the men tog, to the collector, and under the
new ty±tem the collector toes to them That chows you
what may be done. It lion good to argue, "There are the
savings-banks, people can ye them or let them alone as they
plume." Toot may be enough to cover the resp. nobility of
the Stile; but what we want Is that they shall not let them
alone, that their attention shall be called to Oda duty as It is
tp o. her duties—that they shall be invited awl &WA. I to
do what, uninvited and Unanisted, only a small fraction of
them will think of doing—in short, that employers, and all
others who hove sorial influence, ihall help those under them
to keep out of dieter', 84 they already do, moot willingly and
treat liberally, asetat to hell:them when they fall into distress
I know it la sometimes Said that eniployvra—or rome of them
—do not with t lee their men with a lot of money lin hand,
because then they would be too independent. Thlt ion rael.
fish ••alculatlon it the best, ad I believe very few make it,
tlt teems to one also a mi. osculation It B jest the man
who has scum:AWN laid by, and who is WI, g to it every
week, who is mast reluctant to thom away his emote gt by a
foolish quarrel with the employer. (Cheer. ) Saving men
are silo men, and to mai e a conservative" (ten not use the
word In. a politics! but Ins social sense), there is no better
receipt than a balance at hls banker's.

Now, gentlemen, I leave it to others to tall you more In
(bean of the little work that has been done, and the great
deal of work which we hope will he done, by this new as-
sociation. it has started on a smell scale, Its evidence is
experimental only. Its promoters have not tried to push it
into notice by any of those arta of puffing with which we
are unfortunately only too well acquainted. But so far as it
hae gone, It has found support in many quarters, and I be-
lieve It will not ba allowed to drop. No doubt it has its own
special difficulties to contend against. The most useful
&lees of social exertlen are not always, perhaps not usually,
those which excite the most popular enthusiasm There le
something In the belief of Individual disireasswhich gratifies
our sense of compassion, and perhaps something else which
flattens our self-love. Neither of these sentiments is excited
by the exertions which we make to keep men from falling Into
difficulties, although exertions of that kind are ['ten the
more really and permanently beneficial of the two. You do
not require to be told that the best help la self help; that
no liberality or charity on the part DI the rich can, in the
long run, supersede the necessity for prudence in the
masses; or that. benevolence will always Owl rough to do
in dealing with cases of misfortune that lamed not be pre-
vented or foreseen. It never has done more, and it never
can do more, than mitigate in a small degree the sufferings
with which it deals To be dealt with effeetually they meet
be dealt with by other agencies, and I do not think It is
flattering to the patriotlem of an Englishman to see that in
France, In Belgium, in Holland, in Germany, where wage.
are lower than here, and subsistence in general not easier,
there lea vast reserve of national wealth in the hands of the
working class, while of ours, better paid, better clothed, and
better fed, there Is far to large a portion in a condition
nearly resemb.ing that which Defoe described as existing at
the end of the 17th century.
- - - • • • •• • ••

I hue not touched on ono branch of this subje,t, though its
Importance livery great, because I could hot do justice to
it In a few words—l mean tho lumen, disc mragement to
prudence which arises front the Insecurity and bad manage-
ment of many Instituti•ms In which the saviums of the poorer
classes are largely invested. That Is delicate ground to tread
on, and it Is a question of much difficulty to what extent and
In what form the State would Interfere to protect individual.
against schemes which are plaualble and unsound. It would
be a grave responsibility if our agent. were to go about say-
ing, ' Such and such a friendly a acalety or president society
Is Insecure ; do not true It ;" hut we can say the converse
of that ; we can tell people, "Whatever else is shaky, Go-
veriduebt funds are este ; and while you are dealing with the
Poet-office Minks, or annuities, or assurances, though sou may
get less for your money than Is promised you elsewhere,
you are safe of not losing it." That Is probably all we can
do In the way of caution. MO, though It may not be enough
In all respects, it Is, at least, safe anti useiul so tars. It goes
With these remarks, which I have made longer than I
ought, I will leave this matter in the hands of other
speakers.
- - -

Archbish Manning moved the first resolution,
which affirmed the advantage of establishing penny
banks in all manuf act isles and elementary schools, and
depo,i,ing their receipts with the Post Office, as pro-
vided for by law :
-

The Provilent Knowledge Society. he said, wits one of the
wisest auxiliaries in the eudeavour to rondo!, the domestic
life of Our people, which is utterly wrecked in our large
towns, and our large towels contain half the population f
the country. By teaching them to save we should euab'e them
to form a home and so levve them lees temptation to drink.
lie was glad to see so many Oarsmen present, for every One
of them was a lecturer for the Smiety. and their text-book
was the lick of Proverbs. The late Emperor of the French, in
opening a subscription to the funds to which SUMS SU aniaU
as a nee frmc piece could be Invested, had fond the value
of aggregating small saving. ; and. Lord Shaftesbury, speak-
ing leak year, he thought at Norwich, said that he and his
Mends had induced the children of some 00 schools In
Loudon to net their pmee Into a savings bank. and
at the end , f the 5e vr the SUM amounted to £2OOO. It had
grown like the grass whi h grows by night while men sleep.
Lord :Motu Miley also stated that he saw In Yorkshire 12
skilled labourers in a fact re earning torten or eight guineas
in a week, but 4 was on Fridae, ILI,I the reanufa :tar, sail,
"ii you ask them, you will dud they have not • shilling in
their pockets; they drink " Put two men who lett is the
year before had carried SOO and 700 guineas away with them
retrectiv,lr If the etghtgen millions i greeted in the brew.
in; to d itild tr itte. 1.1 Ltincathire alone were sported
in another wa)—my, to a.r.ollture. the e.tton
turn, and the building of hou.es—employntent would be
given to 215 000 persons at an aversge wage of las. a week.
Mr. Thomas Hughes, MX., eeconded the resolution.
He took a more cheerful view of the economy of the
working clasme, from having been preeent at the re-
cent Easter meeting of co-operative mcietios