The Press.
London, England, 1855-06-09 00:00:00

THE WAR.

The adjourned debate on the amendments of Sir
F. Baring and Mr. Lowe to the original motion of
Mr. Disraeli was resumed on Monday by Mr. MINER
GIBSON, who began by expressing his want of confi-
dence as to the definite views of either patty, and
his objections to the wording of both the amend-
ments. He protested against the doctrine that if
the House of Commons expressed an opinion on
pending negotiations it would thereby interfere with
the prerogatives of the Crown—such a doctrine, he
thought, would deprive the house of its most impor-
tant privileges. He then argued against the assump-
tion that we were bound at all hazards to defend the
integrity of the Ottoman empire, an assumption
which would compel us to defend the Sultan whether
right or wrong, and alienate from us the sympathies
of the whole Christian population of Turkey. He
defended the peace party from the charge of having
encouraged the Russian aggression, which was rather
due, he said, to the systematic attacks of the public
press on France and its rulers, and the opinion
countenanced by Lord Palmerston himself that Eng-
land would never undertake a war for the defence of
Turkey. He ridiculed the notion that Russia was
to override the west of Europe, and asked why Lord
Palmerston had formerly characterised the policy of
the Czar as "wise, disinterested, and beneficial to
Eutope." He then adverted to the danger to the in-
dependence of Turkey from the presence of the al-
lied armies, and said that, now the immediate peril
from Russia was passed, the Turks themselves had
changed their opinions, and that every impulse was
now swallowed up in the desire to get rid of the
Western armies. As to the various proposals !for
peace, he believed that the Russian proposal for
opening the Black Sea to vessels of all nations would
offer the best security to Turkey. He could not un-
derstand how France and England could order Russia
to disarm without disarming themselves. Why not
assimilate the Black Sea to the Baltic? He con-
tended against all assertions to the contrary that
free access to the Black Sea would effectually limit
the preponderance of Russia. Looking back to
former relations of the West with Turkey, he could
not believe her altogether safe from attacks from
that quarter, and he instanced the support given by
France to Mehemet Ali, when England willingly
availed herself of the interference of Russia. After
pointing out the practical difficulties of a treaty
founded on the limitation basis, he once more de-
manded a clear and definite statement from the
head of the Government as to its intentions—con-
tending that Turkey was now safe, that we had enough
of glory, and that the prolongation of the war could
only bring disaster on the country,
Sir W. MoLeswoarn recapitulated the alleged ob-
jects of the war, and the defence of the allied
Governments. Arriving at the third point, he said
that. there were two proposals—one for a perpetual
state of petce in the Black Sea, the other for a per•
petual state of war—the propositions of France and
England involved the first, that of Russia involved
the second. The four allied powers had unanimously
rejected the Russian proposals. By the first proposal
Russia would be able to send a fleet of any amount
into the Mediterranean, the allies must keep up an
equal fleet to watch it, and a collision would inevit-
ably ensue sooner or later. The tendency of such
an arrangement would be, not to limit Russian in-.
fluence in the Euxine, but to increase it in the Me-,
diterranean. As to the second Russian proposal, it
was simply to revert to the status quo ante bellunt.
The acceptance of such terms would impose upon
us all the burdens of continued war. The expedition
to Sebastopol was undertaken with the sole object of
destroying Russian preponderance in the Black Sea,
and whatever advantages we might have gained else-
where the Russian fleet at Sebastopol would still
have remained as the standing menace to Turkey.
Nothing but fear would have any effect upon Russia
—it was fear only which had extorted from her the
concessions she bad made; and we must continue the
war till we had secured its objects, unless we would
forfeit our position in the world, which rested on our
moral influence and the general opinion of our in-
vincible determination.

Mr. JOHN MACOREOOR thought that any proposal
for limiting the number of Russian ships would be
illusory ; that it was sheer folly to expect any
aggressive action from Austria; and that we must
under all circumstances destroy Sebastopol. Look-
ing to the perfidious conduct of Russia, he thought
that we had a right to demand a full indemnification
for the expenses of the war, which would be an
effectual means of lowering the power of Russia.
Mi. H. VERNON, concurring in the justice of the
war at the outset, felt that for that very reason we
should be especially cautious how we made a single
false step. The propositions of Russia had they
been made by this country would have been received
in a very different spirit. We must beware lest at
the close of the contest we should find that we bad

WU Maui n.+w.w....r.0...0 was.. --

538

in which both Count Buol and the French envoy saw
the elements of adjustment. Rumour had asserted
that their rejection was due solely to the English
Government. He thought the present moment favor-
able for peace, and declared that if the honour of
England was to be consulted, so was that of Russia.
If peace were proclaimed to morrow, the lesson war
would have taught all parties would be worth its
sacrifices. This done, the great test, he considered,
of future statesmanship would be to make adequate
provision for the fall of the Turkish empire in Europe.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL, admitting the magnitude of
the concessions of Russia, and the alteration in her
tone, repeated the opinion which he had already
expressed at Vienna, that her reverses had not yet
been of sufficient magnitude to compel her to agree
to what they were bound to demand. The negotia-
tions were begun in accordance with the under-
standing with Austria. He defended the policy of
the terms offered to Russia ; but said that the
arrangement on the fourth point was by no means
so certain and easy as Sir J. Graham had assumed,
and he pointed out the practical difficulties which it
would have encountered in its solution. As to the
third point, it had at first been proposed to neutralise
the Black Sea as regarded vessels of war altogether;
but as Russia's acceptance of such terms was utterly
hopeless, the limitation proposal was adopted ; and
what other, he asked, could have been chosen to
cause the cessation of Russian preponderance? The
first proposition of Russia, to throw open the straits,
VMS out of the question. To accept that of the 26th
of April, to permit the Sultan when menaced to call
in the fleets of other nations, would have been prac-
tically to revert to the original position, leaving the
Russian preponderance untouched. Count Buol had
himself pointed out its inadmissibility. He acknow-
ledged the difficulty of defining the exact terms
calculated to give security to Turkey. He cited
Napoleon and Wellington as testifying to the danger
to the world of a Russian occupation of Constanti
nople, and said that in the terms to be proposed we
must be guided by circumstances and the events of
the war. He denied that the question was one of
honour to Russia ; it was the abandonment of the
projects entertained by Catherine and Nicholas, and
almost avowed by the present Emperor. He de-
fended himself from the charge of carelessly
exciting hopes and passions in his former reference
to Poland, the facts connected with which, as an in-
dependent man, he was at liberty to use. He
concluded by asserting that we should still make the
four points our object so far as they provided
material guarantees fur the security of Europe.
At this stage of the debate Mr. Roebuck moved its
adjournment. Lord Palmerston objected, that the
final papers of the Conference would shortly be laid
upon the table, when the question might be finally
debated. To this Mr. Disraeli replied that these
papers had nothing to do with the amendment under
consideration, and Mr. Bright asserted the right to
answer Lord John Russell, who had, he said, as
usual, laid himself open to a conclusive reply. The
debate was then adjourned accordingly until Thurs-
day, when—
It was resumed by Mr. ROEBUCK, who commented
upon the speeches of Mr. Gladstone and Sir James
Graham, contending that after, as Ministers, having
commenced and vindicated the war, they now urged
the country to a course which would appear in the
eyes of the world an acknowledgment of weakness
and defeat. With respect to the general question,
he argued that having embarked in hostilities it was
discreditable as well as unwise to accept peace on
the basis offered by Russia, which allowed the armies
of the enemy to retire undefeated and undiminished
behind the Pruth. The conduct of Lord J. Russell
he declared to be unworthy the envoy of a free
people, especially as regarded his consent to terms
which would have deprived the inhabitants of the
principalities of all control over their own affairs.
Austria, he believed, could have been brought into
an active co-operation with the Westetn powers by
the skilful use of three spell-words—Poland, Italy,
and Hungary. Exonerating the Prime Minister
from the charge of vacillation, Mr. Roebuck exhorted
him to persevere in a vigorous policy, and to remem-
ber that while crippling Russia we were fighting the
battles of the world.

Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT defended the course adopted
by the ex-Ministers, urging that they had aided in
carrying on hostilities so long as the war was strictly
defensive, an'! were justified in opposing it now that
its character was changed. He described the con-
fusion in which the whole question had been
enveloped, and the different shades of opinion which
existed on all sides. He contended that we had
underrated our successes, and enumerated the
several reverses and checks of Russia. Adverting to
our late successes , and admitting their importance,
he argued that if England obtained any signal
triumph the public would care nothing about terms
in the midst of their satisfaction. He read some
confidential despatches to Admiral Dundas from
himself, with the view of exculpating himself from
the charge of indifference, and explained that, from