The Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1860-07-27 00:00:00

with the idea and the prospect of it; but how did the
difficulties arise ? When the trade wanted something
like an assurance before they would declare their
willingness to move that they would not be charged a
higher rate than the average which they had
paid, the committee replied -that they Were • a
changing body,, and they -could only express
their opinion that the land would riot cost more, and
that it would be to theiini4egt of the, felt to i retain the
timber trade, by giving them as large an eremint 4f
accommodation as possible. The timber trade could
obtain no assurance that this would be realised, and
therefore said, " No, we are only paying fourpence per
yard here; it will never do to pledge ourselves AO
remove, unless we can have something like an
assurance." The difficulties of the timber trade of the
Brunswick Dock went on increasing, until at last the
necessity became such that it was felt it could not
remain there. When the accommodation was provided,
there came the question of rent. Elentlemen at that
board knew that at the titrie. of the •diselission ahoiit
land liar ocBtipied by the timber trade; £64d i'itien the
ttiat of lad. was fixed, the trade understood that any
further quantity of land which might be required would
not be higher, but lower; and the price of Bd., and
even of 4d., was named.
Mr. BusueLL—A shilling was fixed, but they had
got that lowered to 10d.
Mr. &Arm said the rate had nothing.to do with what
he was discussing. Would any gentleman, tell him

that when the rate of 10d was Ail thought
pat if they Wanted any additiothil lan they Would bEt're
to pay ? If that Was the case, they could not
have had the land occupied at this present Moment.
What the consequences would be he could not say ; that
would have to appear. In his opinion that board was
taking a very narrow view of the question. It was
quite clear that they were buying more land
than was absolutely necesaary for the timbei
trade. oxcic aot itkuly to oe availkble
o other parposes. lie spoke of land to the north of
the Canada Dock. The interest of that board would

be to induce the timber trade not to take the land in
small quantities, but to take it in large quantities at a
moderate rent, and having a 'permanent rent whether the
land wore occupied or unoccupied, that board would get
more 1110116p.4offeriag fair and proper indticettiente to the
trade, than hygetting a high rent fromit6rkige.
Zie appealed to Arr. Rankin, who knew something about
this. If a timber merchant, or timber dealer, had an
abundant quantity of ground at a moderate rent, he
looked upon it as one of his annual expenses, and the
rent did not become an element in the negotiations
for a sale. of timber.; but if they were to have
a high price, every dealer took the smallest quantity of
land which he cpuyi possibly do with, and resorted to
the casual Or* *hen the tiecetsity arose. *hen he
t • •
wus
compelled to go to the casual storage, he would say
that the cargo would cover probably 1,000 yards of
land at so much per week, and it became a question to
be considered in the sale. He appealed to Mr. Rankin
to say whether, in his twenty years' experience, when
he had had to store carper, it had not been a less, and
a very serious One ; and, if he coilld ildt sell his cargoes
tioin the quays, instead of bringing six, he would-only
bring three, and the orders would go elsewhere, and
they would find whether Hull aid Gloucester would not
take a portien,of their trade. Re had WOW pdt them in
po;sessio4 Of the Whole Of the facts of the case, and he
warned them that, if they went upon the principle of
extracting the pound of flesh; they would damage the
interests of that estate more than they had been damaged
by any act of a committee that had sat in that room for
the last twenty years. He, hoped they would he very
careful lept they :load commit tt niiitate,4hidh they
would only find out when it was too late.
Mr. RA.N.tax explained that the reason he moved the
resolution in the committee was that he believed the
rates agreed to were fair and equitable, and, when the
cartage was taken into consideration, about equivalent
to the rates in the centre of the town. .
Mr. BROCILEgAyrt, chairman of the Works Com-
mittee, in his reply, said he had hem guided very much
hY„O the opinion. of the eniqtieer *lie ethisiclifed the.

ainotint 6hd.rged a fair rate for the land to be let at.
He did not think that Mr. Derbyshire or Mr. Boult
could have been members of that board when the great
discussion took place upon the timber question, other-
wise they would not have been the parties to object to
this rent; because it was .very clearly understood that
when, the timber trade, went to the north end they
*Otlid be profiled Ninth thetip 6totitge, iii cotinectien
with land given to them on permanent lease. They
had made the ground more convenient for them
than at the Harrington Dock, by placing rails
through them ; and they were charging them twopence
more. He thought that if, after getting the trade there,
they said the land was more valuable, and we will now
tax your trade with an additim,,i ..,..as oucits,piy
haVe been holiest. With respect to the casual storage,
three-eigttlis 8f a penny *is 16 ty a year ; and it *as
just possible that a larger sum would be obtained for the
estate by that means than could be obtained by the fixed
rental. With regard to the railway company, they were
putting down rails for them for the convenience of carry-
ing on their trade; and, under these circumstances, he
thought 2d per yard was only a fair charge.
The question as to the confirmation of the proceed-
ings was then put, when there appeared eleven for, and
Sl* agaidst the 111db:int behtg as followe
For.—Messra. Arnold, Brocklehank; Bushell, AO-
back, Inman, Langton, Rankin, Rounthwaite, Sogar,
and the Chairman. Against.—Messrs. Boult, Derby-
shire, Laird, Smith, and Evans. •

Mr. EVANS made some remarks to the effect that the
port was losing £ll,OOO a year by the timber trade, and
that this was a piece of the most indecent plunder that

ever

The dhairmati told hiti be Baas aut of ordef, atici in
he same way silenced Mr. Smith, who rose to rcpiy..

MARINE DEPARTMENT.

The proceedings of this committee, which contained
nothing of general interest, were read and conSrmed.

EILOTAGE COMMITTEE.

The proceedings of this committee having been read
and confirmed,

LAlliii rerharied that at the last meetilig lie had
stated that Captain Christie had been refused a certifi-
cate, and Mr. Mondel said that after hating refused a
certificate he got a ship on shore. That was very
damaging to the character of a man of the standing of
Captain Christie. He had received a letter fioni capi.
Christie on the subject, and he would read it to the
Board, as the subject had gone before the public. Mr.
Laird then read the following letter from Captain
Christie

's Works,
City of Dublin Reath Packet Company
Clarence Dock, Liverpool, July 25, 1860,
DaAa Sia,—.l observed in the proceedingaof the Dock Board
of Ttursday last that Mr. Monde] is reported to have stated
g
that the pilot committee were justified in refusingtonint
Captain Christie a pilotage certificate, inasmuch as three
Months subSe4ent to hia exaniination 116 got chit'. of Vac
CoMpany'i
I tertainly must express my surprise at that gentleman
making such an assertion. It has been my privilege to com-
mand steamers in thlti service llD‘rards of
5•777.atee1l y 6611, going in and out at all states of the tides, and
thrc,ugh all kinds of weather, and I can aseuirc3lr, monde
that I never got a vessel aground (ithEr befort Or subsetoica
to my, examinatitm.-1 ami dear tYir, yob} midst , obedient
CeNranki,. S. *. Cfutfrint.
John Laird, Esq. .

Mr. MONDEL said that no one could regret it more
than he did if he had done wrong to a man.
information had came through the Pilot-office, and if
the letter Captain Christie had written was correct, he
could only express his regret, and go back to the Pilot-
office and make inquiry. He bad a 'tell high ppinton
of Captain CtiFisie'i atici woul4 be 7ery
sorry If he hid injured such a man.

DOCKS AND QUAYS commiTTF,r.

From the proceedings of this committee it appeared
that the following letter had been received from Messrs.
Bibby, Sons, and Co.:—

TO THE CHAIRII kN OF FRE LIVERPOOL DOCKS AND HkaßOCa

BOARD (DOCKti AND (WAYS COnMITISE)

referenet to loinr letters of the 29th March, 14th and
iSt'l February, and 30th June last, will
.put Yoti p6sses:-..ion
ofoUr reqUirements for an increased Steam accommodation.
In accordance with, your, imitation we proceed to state Mir
views as to the'best mode of reniedyint: the hican;ieriienec com-
plained cc.
Tte &ny effectual means of providing suffliient accomoda -
tioa for the present and rapidly increasing ;-,trilsioh of our
trades would be the am,-
to our nee of the whole of
the new st:4111 ank, and anything short of this can only entail
the nedessity of our again•tonitat befh?e yoti h'itliin the next
twelve or eighteen months., It• present we, have • at work I
tseentysdne. steaffiers Of aggregate :salacity of N 520 tons.
e sire noi; C4,striCtine six aaditional boats, capatity 21,b00
Cods othich will be ready within the next few months), and are
also contracting for further tonnage.
These boats, it =St be borne in mind, are all essentially
cargo boats, and therefore require proportionately much greater
quay space than passenger ships, and the double revenue
derived—from cargo as well as from the ship—entitle them to
it. Further, it.may be remarked the boats arc all engaged in
ehort trades, and that the tonnage above alluded to represents
in the course of the year an amount of work much greater than
appears at first sight.
We are now running five distinct lines of Steamers, and with
our present curtailed quay space it is perfectly inipossible to
prevent confusion and mixture of goods..
The ceplaiiits from Manchester on this score are such as
cannot be disregarded, and are inflicting infinite injury on the
trade of the port, and corresponding advantage to competing
lines from London and elsewhere.
It is of the utmost importance that this matter be speedily
dealt with, the more especially as we have recently concluded
an arrangement for conveyance at through rates of merchan-
dise from London and other places to the interior of Italy and
Austria—an arrangemezt by which, if proper facilities are
afforded, Ivo entertain not the slightest doubt an immense
additional traffic will be drawn to Liverpool.
Already large amounts of goods which formerly were sent
overland through Hull, &c., have been diverted to our boats
direct from this port, and to enable us to provide efficiently
for this traffic, we would suggest as a temporary expedient
that the south and west sides of Britnley-Moore Dock, with
the space between the Nelson and Dramley-Moore Locks,
roofed over (as shown in plans already submitted to you), be
appropriated to us, in lieu of the south ;side. of the Nelson
Dock, • •
So convinced are we of the extent of our trade justifying
this application, that we arc prepared to guarantee a return
of at least 10 per cent. more revenue on either of the allot-
ments we ask for, than is derived from the average of any
similar space on the Dock Estate.
Either of these suggestions would remove the risk at present
incurred in docking our large ships (350 feet)—a risk which,