The Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1860-03-23 00:00:00

dealers on Saturday next, to allow a deputation ftiomll it was•strongly opposed lythe Radicals. . Mr. .Livesey
the board of directors to wait 'upon them on, the same was a particular friend of a person named Waugh, whose
day and he would be glad :to be informed on \vhat f. Wile and ehildreu had been left dhargoabi:a to the Parish,
terns the 'Mersey board would -root to the, company "and a shameful affair it was." The witnesg had been
4, portion of the dock (gays'. at .RirketilieUdi together anspeetini. of writing -the libel, and was served with a
itith sdnie Of theeits4,,i- mid ltalt htiso 1 ropost,4 cq be, *it, bat ii-,:yrri3;)vithdrawn, because, as the defence.
6 •ee,te.d. by. the hogcl.--7-Mr. Tobin thought it wonlil b in-inatittd, . Vie yfitntA,,gaVa inforinrition against the
itjiAntfer of Conve,nionee to reeeive.the deputation ofthe. .present.defenciant. •
direetors'at the nle.cting► :on Saturday; alorig with the'' Mr John Turner, printer,' Of RoeUdale'; s,4llhePripted
coal dealers.--31r. Rrocklebank was of cpinioa that itl the ja..Litard containing the libel; tll.e manuseriptteirlg
would.l)c desirable to sec the parties separately; and, on furnished by the. witness Niohols-oa:
his r sinestion the, letter was rcierrect to t 4; Works Mr. Livesey, the plaintiff, was then oalle, merely, it
~ ._ .
Cdminittee. Appel/roc!, to be examined by the othei; .side. Ile was

.....
An appii4 ,tion, for an jitercase ,of ,salary was read
r,kont Mr. Fov 'Wellint; ton Dock,
on the groundic, dock master' of. th
of low* service, and that e had *‘ a
trge and increasing etrnily."--Ntrc -Evans=We shall
s')on 'haie the laigCgt farttilf tdfatiihioA anybody
ei.r ceept Athun. (Latighter.)--zflic letter wag
rell'orcd to. the Dicks .and Quays. Corcvnittee • and a
siiniiar appEe tion from Al... Johnson, superintendent of.
the tele:.Taphi ill Wales, was referred to the. Marine
-CO.umittee..
This conelmled the public lmeinesi. •

very much- Oirir,iged,trud flirt at the ConVerSaiion respect-
ing personal aggrandisemout.
Mr. John Helgate and Mr. Roberts,
,g"cdicitors, of
Rochdale, were, then examined ; and they denied that
they had ever received any bribe from Mr. Livcscy in.
retartt fOtseciiring his election as guardian.
Mr. Moii4. up the. case. tiirid the 'defendant
dare not-venture to come into tlie,-Piitr,
His Lordship' recommended the jury to give feasona-
ble damages, in; order to cotupensate the plaintiff for his.

appearaneein that court.
nejury.found.for the plaintiff;: 40s. damages; they
ha+ing ascertained. that "was the lowest amount
in' this particular cask, t Ould carry'eosts.
la the case of ' Rattigan and Another .6. 13d mondson,"
a verdict was taken by consent for the amount claimed.

SOUTH LANCASHIRE
ASSIZES.

4
The Assizes :.-cenmenced here yesterday, Mr.
JuStice fill piel4ding in the Crown Court, and
Mr. Justice filackthird iii the Nisi Prius Court;
,
The follo*ing ,gentleitim , were sworn the
drrid Miry - • ,„
Sir Thomas B. Birch, The Idats4es, Pte-cot, (Foreman).
Thomas 1). Ar.dcrson, E-q., The• Dinglt, 1.14.;erp
Charles .Ellis Ashton, Esq., Woolton-hall, LiVerpool.
Thomas Rynier Boorpe, Esq'., Liverpool.
James Bourne, Esq.; Ileatlifi,id hous,,, Liverpool.

THE

LICENSFD YIOTUALLERS.
- 4 -

11I5ORTAilt MbEitiNG ItSTERI)A4

large and influential theatingent . the Lidensed_Vic-.
thallefs of.this town Wa:s,heldieeiteiday, CternMon
Hall, Illackin's:be±: Ttifs hiequigelyaseconVened by the
committee of the associationrand was called-tor therm-
pose of considering the bill that has lately.- hen Intro-
diteed for the extension of wine anti spirit licenses to
refreshnicnt-rooins. Among the gentlemen on the
platform 'were 11. Daimon, James Sykes T. Carter,,._B. Balretow, bomb, W. Coward, G. Entwistle, J.,
Smith,leurnb, 1. rarbeek; W; Cole, Air; Bair-
4esi, Look the chair; and; iii,Ebe flint Mace, Galled upon.
the seeretMl td reed the eh-Cider Convening the rtiteting,
`tiftr-Wifiell he err/ iiieeediftely -stiffs, that some .
gentlenimijnore able than. myself ha; not bt.en Called
Upon to preside over the dtttY., "heW-
'kireirj. of ev.ere;• .17:;rglii.thina0i.'take 'his Pe.4 fu a . good
Work, and .th&efdlq,,; legated the pffice, We are
called together to consider the hill for the lieensing
of refiVshnient houses to sell wine which has
ibeenT intro hood--by .the...,present:
nicht: SarrOunded ass 4:: am by gentlemen who are
sp, much more- -able and much better acquainted
withi'thE's/flteet than' Myself; 1 Think it will be better
to curtail niy, OWII rentaTtis dramiirgethi sproce4dings
to-day. This question, I think, is equallytntt•re,ffing to
the 'public as to ourselves, and it is well knoWn that the
public have for the last few years taken a.great interest, 1
is it. I can only look upon this, bill simply -as an
extension of the heerhouse system, and 'I think the
public Mitst loek at it in the same alga. The question
has bebn taken into .Coneitleration ; the public are wide
awake its itriporinee,- chief the have directed their
attention to it. We hate had oc._l4t6fhoilgt sr-sorti
inquire tuto~rbßei-sons well versed in the tatibtis
posltigni of its Operationilmid, a, Measifre vas ultimately
brought .:forward -to. rep:lath eale df;tsvints' and
spirits, As I said before, I look upon .a-coball as an
extension of the beerhouse system, for it is well known
that if any person, who ,occupies a boerhpuse' likeseto
leave the remnants of his. dinner in the window, and
;unit a -refreshment. house, be can get a license for the
sale of This. question be viewed also from
our own'peenliac fO:nt tit .tit;sy ; and in this respect we
occupy a position which has men toit,ed titot:t,ns ttv the
public,. and by the restrictions Parliament has Oecesl
upon us from time to time. We have each an mon-netts
amount of capital invested in .our business, and the
public have. thought proper that our sales should be
tinder many, restrictions. ..They haVe made 'these restric-
' andt egtilattd ain't as they pleased, and now they
seek, to ruin. our bttsiness by inserthig the thin end of a
wedge :which. Must tiltinititely dd so. Yon all ittritrtbat
me. so lithe ago th 6 Ve9riki.pgluettion in this town carne
into such a state, that thrOuthh be interference of the
magistrates it was made much worse than clot".
trade was thrown open,
,and weSaye four or five public-
houses almost almost nekt'door to each other. This state of
things being, so unsatisfactory, Parliament appointed a
committee which submitted a report, according to which
hOweVer they had net the reanlilleSs to act. But I trust,
gentlemen, Aitin taking the matter into your considera-
, 40t1,,Joit Will to-clay look at it all Its hearings, and
whatever yditf. Wisddirt Ott thiiik, proper: to do onthis
occasion. . let it be- nut cnlr fit .otir:oWn, inteiests, but
for the interests of the public at large, I Will now Ball
upon Mr. Denson to move the first resolattioli.
• ---filr.l3/otsoNib—iiiTgeT and after reading tale
resolution—" That thiS.:ineeting is of opinion that the
hill_introdueed into the House of Commons .by Govern-
ment, entitled 'Refreshment Houses and Wine Licenses
Bill," is calculated to destroy the property of Licensed
Victuallers, the great majority of whose houses are _held
at high-rents, under stringent agreements, and for long
potiOds,;in em additi to being subject to' heavy penalties
incurred fen. atiy iriffactioit of the laws relating to
liCenses. The meeting is thriller' of opiniqn that the
experiment, is unwise and unjust, has not Veen-Balled
for by any public requirement, and will disappoint the,
,-expectations. of its promoters," said--I have been
requested, by 'the committee, to move this reso-
lution, and our :object upon.- this 'occasion lgo:.--ing
to express our-opinions upon those principles involved
in the mode 'of legislating. upon the licen'sing system, I
trust yon, will all agree to it. As many of you as have
read the very talented inernciri;ii which has been drawn
up onthis subject,;will see, that it is there emphatically
stated that evil must result from a constant, tinkering
with the ,question. It certainly is tinkering to. see it
./iist taken up by .total abstainers, then by the magis-
trates, and then hi, • Mr. , Brown ; and if thake
gentlemen had not heen predeterniirled to oppose the
licensed victualler, they would have ,been conviticed
that the question, if it required to 'be dealt with at
certainly:required a very different mode_of operation,
to that which had been followed:, It .is intended that
.this hill shall be read a second titne On Friday night,
and it is therefore very desirable that no time should be
lost ; and as we are expressing our opinion to the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer and the House of Com Mons, it
is 'also desirable that we should be most explicit and
determined in oar ebjections, that 'they may mot be able
•
to say we are interested from purely selfish Motives.
This is always th 2 case with regard to the licensed vie-
tuallerS ;-' they can never say anything about their busi-
ness but they are called "a selfish lot." This is not the
case in most of the other great interests of the country.
In the Chamber of Commerce, for instance, they talk of
the great concerns of commerce, and their importance to
the empire,. These matters are dwelt upon; and very
properly, too, without the cry: of selfishness being
raised. But I' siippose the people think that licensed
victuallers' ought -to trade, not for -profit,:bur -Ter
honour and' glory 'and the good of mankind. Do they
suppose that because a man sells rum and brandy
and wine he does so solely for the benefit of the public ?
If they do think, this they have a much higher .ptulon '
of us than even we ourselves have. Now, 6-eeentlernen,
for a number of years I have endeavoured toliglit your
battles, and I belieVe I have done it' consistently; and
I have always been ,encouraged in supPorting.-7yOur
laims by, the conviction that I was ale's advocating that
which would he for the good of society in general'.
The measures I have supported have not only been
fOr tsur,ins,terest, ,but for the welfare of the publio
also. Before proceeding further I must say .;that
we have-great reason to complain of the Chancellor
of the"' Exchequer's •e'cinduct, for the, .great want
of faith he'has exhibited to us in this matter. He told
us most distinctly, and reiterated his promise over and
over again, that the bill should be considerably amended,
and that .we would have ample tint a to-. consider its
provisions and make 'suggestions thereon. Thisewas
told us so distinctly and so frequently, flint/ I am 'Sere
everrgentleman feels with me that the Chancellor of
the Exchequer has-departed frOuilaiiPrOmiSe. In nine
daysethie bantling of the legislature was. to he brought
forward for a second reading. Was 'that giving us
ample time for consideration and suggestion.? Suell
proceeding may be honest in official life, but we simple
people cannot 'call it so. I contend that it is -simply
dialßafeSt; forlie told us we should have_plenty_ofitime,
and' now be allows it, to be.hrought forward fora second
reading. nine days after its first. And now we atel4r6.
met T-together, a very hae,ty niantidt; to 'consider What
steps we may, take to convince the Government that they
are inflieiw, a great wrong upon a large and important
'section -of the community.. 'We told the Chancellor of
the'Exchequer 'that there.'Wislittle dWerence between
this bill`and the beer 'bill. maintain that, this is
only extending the worst. evils of „the beer hill in
their most objectionable form. ;The; twelfth clause of
this' hill shows npon what gronnels • Any 'person can
obtain a license You will, see:
,that there is no
definition of a refreshment room. ,A man has Merely-to
send in. an application, to' the rriaVist,rates 'and to the •
supervisors of excise, which must: lv,,aceompanied.by a •
description of his premises. Mr. Gladstone told us that '
definite questions should be answered as to the character
of the person applying for 'license. , l3tit'NChat is the
condition ? , It IS simply this, that the magistrates may
object,
,On, the ground of character, within, thirty' days
'from the application ; or they may do so if they think
the house is note proper one. But the magistrates are
not forced to do this--the Making of the objection is left to
be optional on their part; and from what we have seen,
of the conduct of magistrates in such cases, can we say"
that this is a sufficient safeguard ? Do you believe that
any bench of magistrates will take upon themselves to
object to an apparently respectable petitioner on the
ground that he is an improper character ? there
• is no attempt whatever made to force the magistrates to
make the objection even though they believed it to be A
good -dne:l-'So. that a man had only to Whitewash' his
Charectei,'and make the house look as busier as-like as
possible, to obtain a license to sell wine ! The very next
day he might turn the house into a brothel, and at the
end of the year his license is, of course, taken away ;
but' a pal of his own, with a similar character, takes the ,
place, and thus the proceedings are continued from year
to year. The license is given to the man, and not to the
honk,
,as it is with the licensed victuallers; and the pro-
perty, thei'efore, cannot be seized or destroyed. In the
case of these beenlicenses,,therefore, a man may spend
a great deal in fitting up his house, because he knows it
eamot be seized, and at the end of the year he changes
the name, the house being, of course, the same as ever.
The magistrates have not the power to, shutn it up. 'The
licensed -victuallers, on the contraryt ;are placed under
greatrestrietioni; *and I do not complain of thew, because
a man maieget anhonest living notwithstanding. But
what we CoMplain of is, that these reserietions have been
placed upon us to damage the business Of the very men
who have been sanctioned by the State for the last two
centuries. The old licensing system was not in any way
found wanting, but was quite equal to the requirements
of the ease. Bpt they say we are always complainiug of
Jaw, but of that tinkering with. the legislation which
something. 'Yes, we have been
We
conipdloainniontge,onoinptl‘aoifnoef
the manner in which-theY have
ttehtennfoetg.
tittpire(,n)dsu;ebtiurteooff
been carried out. ,Many of our friends have been ago::
nished that the Chancellor of the 'Exchequer should
allow men who take beer-licenses to be also licensed to
pointsell` vitle. This lnarlY. Pressed upon
notice w"
zt't our interview 'with him
Chairmanieing.
irnetmroadrukceeda,
but ,he merely answered, " Gentlemen, I have
nothing to do with .beer." All our efforts turned
now tieing
th' k
out to be vain ; and, as :the
wthheicthhinwo. eduigde
eovfentthueaillyvedrgueinlytahseifirp
business, 7•
;however, that the complete wedge is being introduced;
which will be followed in no long time by.a larger and
more destructive one. The Chancellor of the Exchequer

Adam Gladstone, gsii., •Liverpool. ,
Robert Gladstone, .Esq., Manenester. :-
James Heywood; Ear., Ardwiek• Green, .Manchester. . . __ .

Ti)Toinlis Cittledale, Eeq.. Liverpool.
Frederick Avon, Esq.;. Li therland,. Liverpool..
Duncan 31! Vico i*; litq• i A bere to it bie-squate, LiVerpool.-•
Tlioni is LO. wardsiatiTs4,;• Esq.,. lionv,halt,
Reili€rt
Peter Ontro ,4'Esq),;Ohanaber-liall; Bolton-to- oar::
Theodore Woohnon WailibOne,:Etiq., A lleit on, Priory, Liverpool
Henry, Royds, Esq., Elnihouse, avertree, Liverpool.
_ .

Franca Shand; Esq:; Wootton Wood, Liverpool. •
Sanctil Henry Thomson; Esq.; Liverpool.
.lAne,S Tob.n, 11,, q. Li reroool.. ,
Charles liiiner,;Esti., Dingle•Heittl. Liferpoot: ~!, , ;
John G orge Woodhouse. Esq:, Liverpool.
Warr or Shand, ESq.; Liva'po
. The proclamation against:vice and immorality having
been-road, . - • -
His Lordship addressed'the ,rand jury as follows
Foltraii-atlet ClOgtitlerrtett of the.;Urand-Sttry,---7The
ealendar_which_ is__about to occupy itotif Attention,
althongh,not light initself, tither. as'respeott the number
of prisoners contained therein, or the character of,
the offences which it more; particularly designates; yet I
am informed that it is. lighter than the calendar usually
is, in this diVision .of the county at this season of the.
Year, This in itself is a matter of much congratulation.,
I am happy to think -them is no case in the .present
Calendar ititested'*ith any partictile legal diffichlty, on'
which it.. Will lie riedeSstify tot me to- offer
obserYatiens. There are .two cases in whiff pei ions
are Chaigkid With nittidef. Otib of these; NO.: 0 the
calenclaF, arose thit of n niere broil in _.a in
which one. of tlieunfortnuate inmates tell a victim and
was killed. The only question in this case is, whether
the-crime amounts to' manslaughter or murder ? That
One woniari,met her death through the violence of the
prisoner is perfectly clear from ,the deposftions; but it
does not appear that the prisoner used any deadly
weapon. If .Yinfr thA the .offencej,s, pot
'Murder, yon will not find. ktrue eliarge, but
pray to have _the indictment altered to "one_Of -man,
slaugter. If, however, upon inquiry, you think that
.the 'charge of murder ought to be further investigated,
you Will return a bill accordingly. . The other case is one
peculiarly deserving. of your attention. It is No. 66 in
thecalendary in which a Mother is charged with having
murdered her child in drier to tonteal its birth. The eir=
ennistanees depOsed to by the witnesses shot a clear ease
dfCotieealdieht Of birth: Belt, if the stirgeen; Whose depo-
: sitiana are now before-me, is Called as a Witness, ilier6.is
no evidence whatever to show either murder ot man-
slaughter ; because this witness says in his depositions,
—" My opinion is that the child died from suffocation,
which might have been produced by neglect or helpless-
ness On the part of the mother." -by
that if death. was
produced by helplessness on the part of the mother,
ther6.l9"no pr6tenbe for chargifig her with-murder;"dud
i,f this fact mil out oh the tridl bereft the petty jury,
should dert4l,ll2?- tell iiii3itiailt4.o9tild ria,-eonviet,
Theyo, is also one case -in the .*.alender WhereA rildri
belonging to the coal pits is charged With manslaughter,
in couse.inenee of raising, the' engine without giving a
proper signal. In' snelveases the rule efthelaw is, that
(c)Q person charged. with manslaughter Must be guilty
of culpabe There is a class of cases to which
I. need not more particularly ref 6-, namely, that of
outrages upon wonien, which always call_for partienhir
attention tr.?m,the grand jury. For, unless there are
strung grounds for a etnigiction, it most undesirable
to bring the case into court in consequense of the
!rude disclosures Which must there talo. place. You
will, therefore, I am sere give particular attention to
these cases, especially when the 'prosecutrix comes
befdre you herself, and you have a better opportunity of
ascertaining the justice of her. charge, and considering
the probability of her story. His lordship then went
on to' say that he 'was not awarobere were any other
.
Cases uPon which it was necessary for him to remark ;
and he would advise the. jury to consider the smaller
-eases first;- inrerderAhat -the trials mimlit be proceeded
0
with.