The Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1860-08-03 00:00:00

THE DOCK BOARD.

The weekly meeting of the Mersey Docks and Har-
bour Board was' held yesterday at the Dock-office,
Canning-place, Mr. Charles Turner presiding. There
were also present Messrs. Rankin, Arnold, Littledale,
Laird, Brocklebank, Tobin, Evans, Inman, Rount6
Waite, Mondel, Forwood, Boult, Bushell, Darbyshire,
Smith, Segar, and Lockett.
WORKS COMMITTEE. ,

The proceedings of this committee included recom-
mendations to accept the tenders of Messrs. Matthews
and Co. for whale oil, of Messrs: Francis Manden and
Co. for roofing felt, of Messrs. Willis and Co. for hair
felt, of Messrs. Wm. Blackstock and Co. for slates, of
Mr. John Jones for slates and tiles, and of Messrs.
Goodall and Co. for whitewashing and colouring the
huts on the quays. The proceedings contained a further
recommendation to lay down rails at Birkenhead for the
accommodation of the coal trade upon the low level
system, and to provide three machines for raising coal
for shipment by hydraulic power at a cost of about
£20,000.
Mr. BROCKLEBANX, in moving the confirmation of
the proceedings, referred the board to the very elaborate
report of the engineer with respect to the shipping of
coal at Birkenhead. He had visited almost every place
where coals are shipped, and had come to what he (Mr.
Brocklebank) considered a very judicious conclusion,

which was unanimously adopted by the committee, and
the rails at Birkenhead were to be on the low level
system, and the coal to be lifted by hydranlie power;
His estimate for six machines and the rails in connection
with them was £20,000 ; but it was suggested by Mr.
Rankin that the space of 180 feet between the machines
was saareely great enough. The engineer subsequently
made a plan for live lifts instead of six, leaving intervals
of 225 feet instead of 18Q feet: This would seem to be
an improvement, and the cost of the thyee 114 s, kith
the rails in connection with them, would be £12,45Q.
. Any future addition they might make would be in the
same proportion. Perhaps the best way would be to
give the engineer authority to construct the five lifts, but
to carry out three at once, as recommended by the
Works pcnin4Wee,
Mr. RANKIkI Sec9Oded Asp proposition and said the
suggestions of Mr. Hartley were yery yOualile. He
had always been under the impression that a high level
railway was necessary, but from the remarks made by
Mr. Hartley, it appeared that the plan was equivalent
to the high level, provided the cranes were sufficiently
strong to lift a sufficient load without breakage. The
cranes at the lower docks were found insufficient, and
one of tbern broke down on the previous day. He
observed that the con mittee lied declined to extend Mr.
Logan's lease of laud at Birkeuhead Ropjf, and would
have preferred more encouragement being given to
Logan, or any other gentleman introducing a new and
valuable trade.

Mr. Bouvr said that he had always had a preference
for the 140 level, but was perfectly satisfied that the
plan which Mr. liertleY proposed would be found
efficient. He should like to have nonce eisplarration with
respect to Mr. Logan's lease. Mr. Brocklebank had
not stated what rent Mr. Logan was paying at present,
nor the reasons why they had rejected his application.
There was not q.n. inch of land on the Birkenhead side
which he should not be oldighte4 0 let at is. 6d. a
yard for fourteen years, and he was very sorry to hear
of such an offer having been refused.
Mr. FORWOOD said that Birkenhead seemed pecu-
liarly adapted for the coal trade of that port, and asked
why the whole plan of the engineer was not to be
carried out at once, and he expressed a wish to know
also what quantity of coal the lifts proposed to be con-
structed would be capable of shipping.
Mr. LAIRD suggested that the report of the engineer
should be read.

The CHAIRMAN then read the following extract from
the report

•
'timing now described the various methods which are in use
at the Pd.laelPel coal ports, it remains for me to consider what,
under all circtulatefiee3, ;0 the best for adoption at Birken-
head. It appears to me that unless some great and over-
powering advantage can be she to arise from .the
4doptilen
of a high-level system at Birkenhead, where the existing rail-
ways are all upon the level of the quays, and where we have
yet to learn what will be the various descriptions of trades and
shipping for which we shall be calledupon to find accommoda-
c
non, it would be unwise for the Mersey Board to split up and
destr destroy
t 4 general use of a large extent of their quays by the
erection of the superstratftnre which would be necessary for
such a purpose, so long as equal despatsh can be given to the
shipment of coal from railways upon theleiei of the Q,443';, at
no increase of cost. So far as I can learn, even the high-fevel
system of, shipping coal at all the ports has its limit of speed
in the time required for trimming the coal in the ship's hold.
This is also the case with coal shipped from the low level by
the hydraulic •liCig,t/ °9 that even was there an advantage in
rapidity in the one syslegt oz 7r the other; which I believe
gq W9l e
greetQf4c
avail in the time
rethcieureiriesdnfootr,
loading
daYarita
vessel
Another
advantage which
arises from the low-level system and hydraulic hoist is, that it
in no way interferes with the present method of loading coal
adopted at Birkenhead; whilst the means of bringing the
coals forward for shipment would be common and applicable
to both modes, •whiett would not be the case with the high-
level process, as separate approaches and railways would be
required. It must also be borne in mind that ;13, soise cases,
and more especially as regards the South Wales steam coal, it
is very questionable whether the extra cost of shipping it; as
is now practised at Birkenhead, is not more than repaid by the
freedom from breakage which such a system insures, whilst
the coal is not only loaded into the ships, but also trimmed
*during the same operation ; and 4 is stated in some of the
memorials which have been referred to me qn this ewhiect, that
the coal trade which has been created at Birkenhead owes its
increase to the method of shipMent pursued, as the coals are
loaded with' a minimum amount of breakage. The next question
to be considered is that of cost. A high-level railway system
to command all classes of shipping that may be expected to
take ip goal must not be less than 20 feet above the level of the
dock quitys.,:tii permit ef coals being raised to that level by
locomotive power an inclined plane rising lin at the least
would be required, giving a length of 700 !ilk of approach.
Then supposing, for the sake of comparison, we take a plan
showing the appropriation of the quay to the south of Gill-
brook recess, at Birkenhead; for six loading berths, and apply
this plan to both systems, the cost i 3 estimated as follows :
•--* high level railway upon timber framing, commencing
With an inclined plane, and running up 1 in 35 to a height of
20 feet above the quay; the main line to be distinct and branch-
ing off to six loading berths; each berth t:9 he provided with
self-acting drop, turntable, and weighing machine, is estimated
to Cost £42,500 0 0
A low-level system, similar in the extent of
accommodation in every respect, viz., six loads •
jug berths, with branch railways, each being
Nri)ishel with an hydraulic hoist to lift a wag-
g9n 20 feet alloye the Quay, a weighing machine
And turntable, togetheY vit4 the cot of the
engine for producing the hydraulic kkatifg;
accumulator, pipes, we., is estimated at £2O,lQO Q 0

Then the interest at 41a per cent. upon the first
cost of the high-level would he £42,500, at 44
per cent
£1,912 10 0
Wear and tear, say 1 per cent. upon first cost 425 0 0
barge £2,337 10 0

The interest woo the oltl!.7 upon the low-
level system £20,100, st fi per ,Cent £lo4 10 0
Cost of supplies and expenses sttendantpp hydraulic power, 40-horse, at Xt2
Wear and tear, say 14 per cent. upon first
cost, being more expensive machinery to keep
in order 3Ol 10 0

Annual charge £1,686 0 0
After considering these figure,, and bearing in mind the very
great difference of opinion which exists amongst the members
of the coal. trade themselves as to the description of accomoda-
tion that should be prov.cied ; looking also to the fact that no
advantage is iabied by the high7level system either in speed of
loadinror in any other respect except the remote one of being
lielhaeting, and not dependant upon crcate4”power ; arid, not
forgetting that whatever you may do is, to a great extent, an
experiment, you Will, in my opinion, take wisest course by
adopting the low-level system, as now in operation at Newport
and Silloth, and partially at Cardiff.
One of the most serious matters for consideration in connec-
tion with the coal trade at Birkenhead, should it ever approach
the magnitude spoken of, is the removal of ballast from vessels.
The mere discharge of the ballast is readily arrived at by the
erection of one or two hydraulic cranes, worked in connection
with the coal hoists; but its removal. and more especially the
Prpyiding space upon which to deposit it, are difficulties which
do not seirnly way to overcome, as our land is not only too
Yalu able but inapplicable tor 4fe recepg9U of ballast ; besides
which the accumulation of it will, necessarily, become large in
. course of time. In all the coal ports which I have visited, the
ballast is unloaded and removed by the parties owning the
docks. At Birkenhead, I think it would be advisable that you
should provide the means for its speedy discharge, but leave
the removal and disposal of it to others.---I am, sir, yours
respectfully, Joux B. HARTLEY.
Dock-yard, 27th July, 1880.

CRATR3IAN said there would be no loss of time
if only three of the lifts were proceeded with at once—
the other two could be added at any time when required.
The committee thought that three would be sufficient in
the first place, and, if five were found necessary, the
other two could be immediately added. With regard to
Messrs. Logan's lease, as he moved that the lease should
not be extended, he would give his reasons for so
doing. There were three leases upon that part of the
pool. The lease to Messrs. Logan was originally granted
to Messrs.. Holme, who transferre4 it to Mr. Logan.
The land was not let at is 6d for the whole of the period.
The original lease was for fourteen years, three of which
had expired. During the period that the water was.
out of the float, they had agreed that Messrs. Logan, as
the assignee of Mr. Holme, were entitled to an extension
of time.

Mr. LAIRD—That was an agreement made with the
Corporation of Liverpool.
Mr. BROcKLEBANK—I believe there was no such
agreement.

Mr. LAIRD—It was produced the other day,
The CRAIRXAN said that an unsigned deed was pro-
duced. The lease enabled Mr. Logan to go down to
the margin of the quay. Mr. Laird had secured an
extension of his lease for fourteen years, from the time
the float was opened, and he must confess that Mr.
Laird had get the best of the Corporation, for he was
not entitled to anything more than to the extension of
lease for the time water was out of the float.
T
on the other side of the float was Messrs.
hispeh
te 'party
pwahoyse lease expired in seven years. Mr. Hartley
and the Works Committee were all very strongly 91 the
opinion that, looking at the enormous amount of money
which they were eTpepdiOg upon the entrances to the
float, the pock ought to lei.lf• possession of the
quays of the whole of that space. 113, the arrangement
which they had made with Messrs. Todd, Naylor and
Co., they preserved 100 feet of ttie sip), space,
appropriating that quay epace as far as' was
necessary for their trade, and when it was not

occupied, they should have the privilege of sending
other vessels there. It was a great object that
all the other quays should be in the same position.
Gentlemen would recollect that the rent was not
ls. 6d. for fourteen years ; it was Is. 6d. for three years,
but three years from eleven years hence. Mr. Holme's
lease was a lease beginning at a small rental and
increasing. There was no doubt that for the last three
year of the lease Mr. Logan would give ls. 6d. a year,
but he was not willing to take a lease from the present
time at ls. 6d. per yard. For these reasons, and par-
ticularly for the first reason, that these three leases
would be an incubus upon the proper management of
the Birkenhead estate, he would, if it were his estate,
get rid of the leases and make others on more advan-
tageous terms. They might make any arrangement
with Mr. Logan at the end of eleven years ; but sup-
posing they grant this extension to Mr. Vogan, Mr. Peto
would ask them to extend his for seven years, and the
whole of the quays would thus be kept out of the hands
of the board. He did not go the extent of Mr. Hartley,
but Mr. Hartley, even, thought it would be better to
buy up the leases and thus get rid of them.
Mr. DARBYSHIRE thought they ought to forward the
interests of those who would come forward and take
land on the other side, and expend a large amount of
money in improving the- trade of the port. If they
conceded the request to Messrs. Logan could not some
arrangement be made by which such a portion of the
quays as might be thought necessary might be placed at
the disposal of the Board ? He believed Messrs. Peto
had no works on the land; and if they brought forward
plans which would he for the benefit of the trade of the
port lie did not see why they should not entertain the
application.

Mr. TOBIN believed that such an arrangement as that
suggested by Mr. Darbyshire could be made, as Mr,
Logan had signified acquiescence in such an arrange-
ment. But there was a greater difficulty, the land was
in three divisions ; there was a small dock at the Canada

...
' works, which at the eTpiratien of seven years, if it was
thought desirable, might be improved ; but if Messrs,
Logan's lease was renewed, the board would be pre-
cluded from this improvement. This seemed to him to
be the great objection. Mr. Logan expressed his
desire to concede the river frontage; but that would
have been comparatively of very little use if the other
property was not in the same position. There was a
question asked by Mr. Bonit which the chairman had
not answered, with respect to the anionnt of coal which
could be shipped by the machines. taeh of the lifts
would be capable of shipping 1,000 tons per day, which
with the three lifts, would be equal to 900,000 tons per
annum. He did not think that would be accomplished
for some years; and the Works Committee believed
three would be sufficient for some short period. He
bad, on a former occasion, spoken in favour of the high
leycl system 9f shipping coal, and thought it right to
state, that he was ' satisned with the Riau proposed by
the engineer, because be had previously only considered
whether they should be contented to continue shipment
by barrows, or take it on the high level method.
Mr. LAIRD suggested that the report should be printed
and the plans lithographed, and both circulated among
the coal proprietors e,nd nents. Mr. Brocklebank had
not. stated that.althotigh the committee thought three lifts
would be sufficient, they had determined to lay doini
the rails of the other two, so that the shipment could
pon in the usual way. With regard to Messrs.
Logan's lease, he bad contendeg for the extension of
that lease, and be intended to divide the committee
upon it, because he thought it advantageous to this
port, because he thought they ought to encourage works
of that kind over the water ; and they ought not to
consider whether they could screw out of Messrs. Logan
6d. or ls. more at the end of eleven years, but that they
ought, ._llO7 that there was a 444110.444(44 to go to fgt.-
kenhead, to enconpge parties to go they?) fOr s tile rent
obtained at present with the amount they received from
dues would make the rent four or five shillings a yard.
With regard to the remarks of the Chairman, in reference
to his lease, he did not know whether they were made
offensively or not.
The CHAIRMAN—Oh, not at all.
Mr. I.,,Atan—You said you considered that I had an
advantage over the `Gorporatinn.
The CHAlRMAN—Certainly,
Mr. LAIRD—That would lead to the conclusion that
I had taken an undue advantage of the Corporation.
The CHAIRMAN—Oh, no.
Mr. LAIRD explained that he had taken the lease at
the request of the Corporation, and said that if they
would ask the Town clerk they w 041.4 be inf9rrne4 that
he acted in a straightforward and liberal manner,
instead of attempting to take any advantage. He gave
them fair notice that every yard of land which they
refused to lease at Birkenhead they increased the value
of his property, se that on that occasion, instead of act-
ing for his ewn interest, he was rather acting in the
• . ,
other way.
Mr. BUSHELL, in committee, had seconded the chair-
man's proposal. He believed that he was not usually
accused of doing anything likely to be prejudicial to the
Birkenhead estate : he was rather considered as belong-
ing to thoae who were always advocating Birkenhead.
That was not so. ite only regarded Birkenhead as an
integral portion of the estate. His principal 'reasons for
not wishing the lease extended had already been stated
by the chairman. He totally differed from Mr. Laird
in ins views on the subject. It must he borne in mind
they had already leased land to Messrs. Tod, Naylor,
and Co., and they were perfectly willing, had Mr. Logan
been free, to make equally liberal terms with him.
How, then, could it be said, in refusing to give Mr. Logan
this extension of his lease, that they were driving his,
or any particular trade, from Birkenhead. They were
most anxions to encourage trficiQ tq them Mr. Logan
took the course he thought best ; he did not come to
that board for his lease, but, bought it from some private
individual. When he bought it he knew how many
years of that lease were to expire. Where, then, was
the hardship which, it was said, they were inflicting
upon Mr. Logan. He could not pretend that any
inducement, had been held out to hint by the board to
buy that lease, or a promise that the term of years
should be extended. The trade would come whether
they extended the lease or not. But what was the
other side of the question ? Should they demise im-
properly, before they saw their way, a portion of their
quays on the other side ; and when they might reason-
ably anticipate a great extension of business, If the
buildings were away, and the dock open, it would he
one of the greatest boons which could be conferred, Rot
only upon Liverpool, bat the commercial world at
large ; and were they not to look forward and se, care-
fully as to their dealing with this new portion of their
estate ? What would be said of them if, eleven years
hence, they had a physical harrier as an impedi-
ment in their way to accommodating that trade
which Mr. Laird said they were driving
aw-ny. If he mild let his personal feelings inter-
fere with leis pqblic duty, he 'shopld have voted for
the extension of that lease ; but as an honest trustee,
taking the view which he did, he could not consent, from
any personal feeling, to yield this matter to Mr. Logan.
The commercial part of the question they could consider
for themselves. They had Mr. Hartley's strong opinion,
given much more strongly than usual, upon the ques-
tion ; and he said that, so far from extending for a
siagle day any of those leases, he should be for taking
them back to themselves, as they might already be con-
sideied a dieadiantage. tog tq the coal lifts! Mr. For-
wood, by a reference to the report, would see that they
could lift 1,000 tons of coal per day, which would give
them something approaching half a million tons a
-year.
After a few words from Mr. Mendel and Mr. Laird,
Mr. SMITH was one of those who voted in the
minority, and as an amendment was now proposed, he
did not feel he should do his duty if he were to give a
silent vote. The facts of the case were these. Mr.
Logan, who was about to enter into a trade of which
they had hitherto had very little, and was likely to have
a very extensive trade in that respect; and it was a
trade, and one of the few trades which could be con-
ducted at Birkenhead as conveniently and advantageously
as' upon any portion of the dock estate. Mr. Logan, in
the pursuit, no doubt, of his own interest, purchases
from the Messrs. Holme a lease of the land which they
originally obtained from the Birkenhead Dock Company,
just as Mr. Laird had done. Mr. Laird, it so happened,
taking time by the forelock, and proving to the Cor-
poration that he was in a condition to claim compensa-
tion by the abstraction of water from the Great Float,
which thus barred him from carrying on that business
which he contemplated when he took it, made an
arrangement with the Corporation which was intended
at the time to be mutually advantageous. Mr. Laird
had now a lease of fourteen years. His land
adjoins that which Mr. Logan had purchased from
Messrs. Holme. Messrs. Holme might, no doubt, have
made the same arrangement, but neglected to do so.
There.was an agreement actually engrossed on parch-
ment to giant them that extension instead of compensa-
tion, and they would have had no difficulty in making
the same arrangement with the Corporation as Mr.
Laird did. It was not done, and their position was just
this. Messrs. Holme's leale has only eleven years to
run, while Mr. Laird has one of the adjoining pieces of
land which has fourteen years to run., Mr. Logan, with
a view to provide for the large trade he anticipates—that
of ore-crushing-7which it was their interest to encou-
rage as much as possible, for they not only got rental
for the land, but got dock dues on the ships and dock
and town dues on the. goods,—Mr. Logan, finding that
the land he had taken from Messrs. Holme was not
sufficient for his purpose, so extensive were the works
he intended to construct, took a piece of land from Mr.
Laird; and upon those two pieces of land it was his
intention, he believed, to construct works which would
cost from £6,000 to 0,000. But could anybody not
see, if Mr. Logan constructed property of that kind
upon two 4iiitingt leases, one expiring at one time,
another three years subsequently, what would be his
difficulty. He would have 'to come to that board. He
would be at the !card's mercy; 4114 they knew pretty
well what it 745 tq be at the mercy of a changing body
like that ; for he could contrast the epinions 4 that
board fifteen years ago with what they were now, and
he could see that it was a broken reed to trust upon.