The Stourbridge Observer, Cradley Heath, Halesowen & District Chronicle.
Stourbridge, West Midlands, England, 1874-10-03 00:00:00

T}Jl TOURFAMGE ORSFFVFIL

Mr. Bernard said the motion for a lineal Board
had been negatived at the Lye.
Mr. Billingham said he had long thought it wotdd
be desirable to take that course dhe formation of a
Burial Board) for Stourbridge and Upper Swinford
only, and leave the inhabitants of the Lye themselves.
It was a long way from the Lye to Stourbridge and
they would have to go a long way on that side to get
suitable ground.
The Chairman said that as far as they could they
cemht to get a cemetery that would afford easy access
to people of limited means. He should also pat that
as a suggestion to the members of the Board. He
asked those present to express themselves as to what
would be acceptable as a cemetery of that kind.
A desultory conversation ensued as to what would
be the best position for a site.
The Chairman said he believed that as a matter of
fact a cemetery was at first always looked upon as a
nuisance, in whatever neighbourhood it was sought
to place it, but that after the place had been properly
arranged,: the people in time would come to it. He
thought there was a very suitable place near the
Roman Catholic Cemetery at Norton, as there was
good dry soil, and it was in every way adapted for it.
If the Lye were added it would alter all their plans
as they would have to have the cemetery in a conve-
nient position for them.
The Chairman pointed out that it was desirable to
have it within a reasonable distance of the town, that
persons of humble rank might not have their troubles
aggravated by the expenses of travelling a long dis
ance to the place of burial.
Mr. Bfilingham said he should like to be distinctly
understood with reference to having a small area;
that was supposing the cemetery was confined to
Stonrbridge and Upper Swinford only. If it was to
be also Ifor the Lye it would, of course, have to be
larger. With regard to the information desired he
had put himself in communication with the Relieving
officer, Mr. Barrett who was a member:of the Romish
Church, as to how the funerals were conducted at
their cemetery. He said that is cases where the
corpse was heavy they were compelled to have Pi men
as bearers,and they would have to have food and drink,
and unseemly results sometimes ensued. With re-
gard to the Roman Catholic Cemetery, they had a
hearse, and as few men HA possible, end& good moral
effect had been produced by that arrangement among
the Roman Catholics of this district. He had asked
one or two parties if, in case they had a cemetery at '
a distance, they would furnish a one-horse hearse at
a cheap rate, and the reply was Yes." He believed
the ratepayers would like a nice cemetery in a pretty
situation within a tolerable distance of the town, as a
place to visit and walk in, as they had no public park
at Stourbridge. He meant within reach of something
like half-an-hour's walk—about two miles.
Mr. Stringer, repeating that he thought the Lye
people could work more economically by themselves,
observed that there was a good situation for a cone-
fery near to the Roman Catholic cemetery at Norton
if their friend Mr. Bernard, and other gentlemen of
the neighbourhood did not object to a funeral passing
their residences.
Ultimately, a resolution—on the motion of Mr.
Turney, seconded by Mr. Billingham—was passed,
to the effect that a committee be appointed to ascer-
taM and report to this board the number of deaths
wnieh have taken place in the townships over which
this Board has jurisdiction during the years 1871-2-3
the number of burials which have taken place through-
out those townships during the same three years;
the number of burials which it is probable may take

place from the same townships during the next fifty
years; and the area required to be provided for the
interment of the dead from those townships for the
neat fifty years, having regard to tne instructions for
Burials Boards, published and approved by the Sec-
retary of State. The chairman, with Messrs. King,
Turney, and Billinghum were appointed the com-
mittee. The Chairman, Vice-Chairman (W. Turney)
and Mr. Evers were empowered to draw up a draft
copy of bye-laws, to be submitted to the Board at
their earliest convenience.

• This Wa9 all the business of importance. It was
arranged that the next meeting be held on the 12th
proximo, at 3 p.m.

THE SCHOOL BOARD MEETING. "
The monthly meeting of this Board was held in '
the Commissioners' Room at the Corn Exchange, 1
on Monday evening last. Mr. McEwen presided.
and there were also present : Messrs. Bißingham,
Stringer, Prescott, and Major Walker. Mr. Scott
also arrived some time after the business had cons-
menced.
Major Walker had not arrived at five minutes
past six, and
The Chairman said as they had rather important
matters to discuss, perhaps they had better wait
until Mr. Wall or Mr. Walker had come.
Mr. Prescott said he did not see why they should
wait. They knew the time. If he was absent they
would not wait for him.
The Chairman: I never knew you to be absent.
You are very regular in your attendance at the
Board. However, if the gentlemen like I will pro-
ceed with the business. We are allowed fifteeen
minutes.
Mr. Stringer said they had better wait. Directly
afterwards Major Walker arrived, and
The Chairman called upon the Clerk to read the
minutes of the last meeting, which, on the motion
of Mr. Stringer, seconded by Major Walker, were
carried unanimously.
The Chairman said the first business on the
agenda was the adjourned correspondence between
the Board and the Education Department, respect-
ing the plans and the modification of plans which
had been sent up for approval by the Board.
, The Clerk read a copy of the letter which had
I been sent by the Board, and also the:reply which
had been received from the Department since the
last meeting of the Board.
It will be in the recollection of our readers that
the Board, having in mind the gradual increase of
population, some time ago ordered their architect,
)Ir. S. Smith, to draw up a plan for schools suffi-
ciently large to accommodate 400chi14ren, instead
of 311, the minimum limit fixed by the Depart-
ment. The plans were prepared accordingly, and
forwarded for approval to the Department. They
were shortly afterwards returned with an accom-
panying note, stating that in them provision was
made for the accommodation of 488 children; the
accommodation for infants being especially exces-
sive. In answer to this the Clerk to the Board was
instructed to write to the Department, asking
them how the Clerk to the Department had arrived
at his figures, as the building was only intended to
accommodate 400 children. In reply to this a letter
had been received from the Department which said
"My calculation was based upon the official basis' ,
of 18 inches desk and bench for each child in the
school room. I am to request that they may be
again submitted for approval. If, on the other
hand, your Board intends to adhere to the plan as
it stands, I am to request that you will communi-
cate with me to that effect, and you shall be fur-
nished with the requisite instructions with respect
to the steps to be taken for obtaining a loan from
the Public Works Loan Commission." Another
letter said, "My Lords are not disposed to inter-
fere with the discretion of the Board if they think
fit to provide accommodation in excess of that re-
quired by the notice published under Section 9 of
the Act.'
Mr. Prescott : Am I to understand that the
plans provide for 488 children, now?
The Chairman: According to the calculation of
the architect to the Department it is so. Accord-
. . .

Aug to the calculation fq our own architect, Mr.
Smith, it is not so.
The Clerk here read Mr. Smith's reply to the
Department, which was as follows :
Stourbridge. July 30ch, 1874.
_ Stourbridge Board School.

Dear Sir,
In reply to report received, I beg to say I Boa
the accomodation provided by the plans for boys and
girls, to be 120 each including the class rooms, (viz)
school rooms 51.3 by 20.0 and class room 136 by 20.0,
(see Department rules for planning schools, Plan C page
18). The infants room is intended t • accomodate 100
infants or thereabouts, to drill itc., altogether. No. 1.
infants' clans room for occasional classes; the 'mooed
class room for the tine of mothers, and babies, in order
to enable elder sisters to attend school. (I think the board
approved of thin—See report, December 10th, 1873).
The reduced cost of school buildings omitting the Berlin-
modation, I find by the quantities will not exceed £lOO,
or thereabouts. I beg to enclose sketch of reduced an-
commodation, should this be preferred, for the consider-
ation of the Department The aXine and other dress-
ings of the exterior work can, with the approval of the
Board be dispensed. with. The windows are of wood,
cenvenient for glazing and cheerful lights.
I am, dear sir, yours faithfully,
Smalmon Smith.

George Perry, Erg.,
Clerk to the Board.

The Chairman said if he understood the matter
rightly, the difference in the estimated accommo-
dation arose from the fact of a babies' room being
provided, and an infants' class room being provided,
and the architect for the Department calculated
the space for those as if it was so much additional
accommodation. There was also a Board room.
The question arose whether they should let the
plans stand, or whether they should have them
altered to accommodate 311 children. It appeared
to him that, though they based the caculation of
the cost at so much per child, that form of calcu-
lation did not hold good all through. The ratio
was not the same for 100 as for 400 or 500 children.
If they were to take in the walls a little, so as to
reduce the size, they would not save much as the
span must be the same height as before, and the
width of the roof would be but slightly diminished.
cherefore, he did not see why they should reduce
the size of the schools, and unless there was a great
saving he should advise them to be let alone. It
had been disputed whether the population of Stour-
bridge was increasing; but if they were to trust
the monthly- report at the Commissioners' meetings
the population was increasing; as the births were
on the average consith rably more than the deaths.
and he was not aware of any tide of emigration
flowing from the town, lie thought they would
make a mistake if they allowed any alterations in
the plans, They had the assurance of their archi-
tect that those plans were as economical—or more
economical—than any other that could be submit-
ted. Although the Government architect had said
at first the plans were expensive, he did not refer
to that again, or give his reasons for asserting
that they were expensive. He (the chairman)
thought the plans should remain as they were, and
he should be very glad to hear the remarks of any
gentlemen of the Board on the subject. He had
no wish to put the township to any more expense
than was necessary. At the same time he wished
to do what he had been sent there to do—to pro-
vide proper school accommodation in the most
economical manner.

Mr. Prescott : The first question we have to
decide is whether this Board has any legal autho-
rity for providing for more than 311 children; and
that is the question to which I must have an
answer to-night.
The Chairman I will answer that question by
reading the words of the Department.
Mr. Prescott : Then, the ratepayers need not pay
a shilling towards a school board rate.
The Chairman said the question was one of ac-
commodation.

In answer to a question, Mr. Smith said that if
the plans were reduced so as to bring them down
to accommodate only 400, according to the esti-
mate of the Department, it would only reduce tho
cost about £lOO.

Mr. Billingham : There is one remark that I
can't see through. Are we in the position that we
Are going to pay £lO per child, and yet are going
to provide for so large au extra number ?
Mr. Smith : Mr. Billingham, allow use to speak %
Mr. Prer,cott No; I think we ought to have the
discussion free, and Mr. Sroith ought to retire. He
had presented
.certain plans, and he ought to retire
whilst they were being discussed. The sum of .£8
per child had been laid down as the cost at which
the school would be built, and as provison had
been made for 88 more than the proper number,
they had a right to assume that the cost to the
ratepayers would be 88 times £8 in excess of the
proper amount. It was no use to talk about con-
tracting walls. The question was, if they were to
ask a builder to '°lye them an estimate for a school
to accommodate 400 children, and then to give an
estimate for one for 500 children, he would guar-
antee they would findamaterial difference between
the two. _ _

_
The Chairman thought that Mr. Billingham had
not understood his remarks. What he had meant
to say was that if 400 children would be provided
for at from .£8 to £lO per head, then the 88 chil-
dren would not be in so large proportion. Vice
versa, neither would the charge of 88 children
alone be at the same charge as 88 children as an
addition to an establishment.

Mr. Smith said the roof of the apartment pro-
jected for the Board room would coves those two
little rooms, and they had three walls already
built. However, as his opinion was not considered
worthy of being listened to he would withdraw it.

Mar Walker remarked that at the meetings
that had been held there the question had been
fully considered, and it was thought desirable by
a majority of them to provide for more than pro-
vision was ordered to be made for by the Depart-
ment. It was thought that it would be more eco-
nomical to provide at once for 400 children than to
have to enlarge the school in a short time, thereby
entailing a very considerable expense, without any
real gain. But when he voted for a school to ac-
commodate 400 children, be understood that they
were going to provide for that number but not for
88 in excess of that. He must say distinctly that
if he had been told at the time that they acre
going to provide for 488 children he should have
opposed it; and now, whether the cost was large
or small, he should oppose the provision for alarger
number than 400. He should, therefore, vote
against the adoption of those plans for providing
for ebd decidedly.

Mr. Smith said this misnnderstandinghad arisen
entirely through the children's rooms. Those
rooms were not class rooms, they were babies
rooms and infants' rooms.
Major Walker said he was not finding fault with
the architect. But he had not voted for the ad-
ditional expense of plans for the 488, for which the
Department said accommodation had been pro-
vided.

The Chairman said the question resolved itself
into this. Two rooms had been provided, Ind it
was a question whether those rooms should be dis-
pensed with, or not. Now, if they were dispensed
with, that would reduce the number at once.
' '

--
Mr. Prescott said that Mr. Walker was right in
his proposition. The Chairman was trying to
make it appear that there were two distinct rooms
which had caused the excess of accommodation;
but in the letter from the Education Department
their Lordships stated that there was a provision
for an extra number of infants. There were ob-
servations wade about the preponderance of births
over deaths; but that had nothing to do with the
question. It was decided at that Board that ac-
commodation should be provided for 400 children,
and there was a general allegation made by the
Department that there was accommodation for
240 infants. There was no talk about babies rooms,
oranything of the sort.
Mr. Stringer said he should be pleased to hays
the architect's explanation upon those points, why
he had made the infants' (or babies') rooms, and
why the Department should have made those re-
marks on the plans.
Mr. Smith said in many of the places in which
Board Schools had been built it was found desir-
able to provide babies' rooms; and as they *might
have been had for a small cost, with a room over
for the use of the Board, he thought it advisable
for them to have them; and they had consented to

it.
Mr. Prescott : Was it before us in the plans

—..-
Mr. Smith: Yes; it was before you in the plans.
Mr. Prescott: Well, you were present and heard
the resolution, and ought not to have made any
other accommodation than what was necessary.
The Chairman (to Mr. Smith): I think your ex-
planation hardly answers Mr. Stringer's remarks.
If I understand him rightly he wants to know if
there was any reason for you to suppose that those
things would be required.
Mr. Prescott here interposed, and asked suppos-
ing the architect answered the question in the af-
firmative, did they suppose the Education Depart-
ment would listen to their man in opposition to the
representations of their own architect. As far as
his experience went as a public man he knew that
they would not give credence totherepresentations
of any other man beside their own. If there had
been a blunder it was better to admit it.
The Chairman: There has been no blunder.
Mr. Prescott: Well, there are people who
decide fly think so.
Mr. Smith I has been said :so outside, and I
have a right to defend myself.

The Chairman : The accommodation in the room
proper is the accommodation required for 400
children.
Mr. Prescott asked the Clerk to read the state-
ment of the Education Department.
The Clerk then read the letter.
Mr. Billingham said he believed the it istake had
arisen because Mr. Smith had made provision for
all the children to be in the rooms at once, whereas
it was well known that they were never all there ,
at the same time.
Mr. Smith said the babies' room was provided
for mothers who were compelled to go out to work.
so that they should be enabled to send their babies
to school to have them tended by the elder children.
He had built a large school at West Bromwich, and
it was found that there the system worked very
well.
In answer to a question, Mr. Perry said there
were only two additional class rooms.
Mr. Billingham : If Mr. Smith's arguments are
right about the babies' room, how shall we deal
with the other room.
Mr. Smith said it was only done in accordance
with what was done in other places.
Mr. Prescott said at Brierley Hill the Magistrates
had tined a woman for keeping her child at home
to mind the younger children.
Mr. Smith said he had provided the babies' room
to obviate this.
Mr. Prescott said he had no right to provide
accommodation for children under_ three years of

-- -
age, or over 13. It was all very well for people who
did not live in the township to propose such a thing
but the ratepayers must be considered. He thought
it was a blunder, and a most unfortunate one; and
it was better to start again.
The Chairman referred to an article which had
appeared in the Daily News, which stated that the
Sheffield School Board School had cost some'hing
less than £lO per child.
Mr. Prescott. But, sir, the article does not touch
the question.

ritle Chairman: It touches the question very
deeply.
Mr. Prescott: Pardon me, Mr. Chairman ; it
rather cuts the other way. It only shows what the
average number of children has been, and it shows
that the question we have to decide here to-night
is one of law purely and solely—whether wedesign
au trustees to spend more money than we are au-
thorised to spend. The time will come when you
will find that 400 is an excess, and you will find the
ratepayers will object to pay when the time for
paying ci!!ne!.

r kale,: Walker said he did not think the Chair-
man, or any other person, had any reason to fear
anything from any ratepayer, so long as what they
did was sanctioned by the Department. But what
he wished to say was this, they had discussed that
question fully, and they came to the decision that
the interests of the town would be met by making
accommodation for 400 children. But when it had
been decided that this was the proper number, he
did object to having to make provision for 4m.
He did not go into the minuthe, for whether the
,st was ..tlO per child, or whether it was Ali per
child, was beside the question It was sufficient for
hint to know that the provision for 448 was in ex-
cess of what was ordered.

The Chairman coincided with Major Waam's
remarks to a great extent, and if there had been
any increase in the number provided for he should
have opposed it; but when he found it was an in-
crease in the rooms, he questioned whether it was
policy to do away with those rooms although they
were apparently in excess. The question of doing
away with or keeping them would not greatly
affect the cost. He should like them to look at the
question in a brighter light than he had put it.
Major Walker If I had been asked to vote for
48S. I should have objected to it.
Mr. Prescott It is superseding in an underhand
sort of way what had been decided upon by the
Board.

Major Walker: If we decided to agree to 4(x) we
can't go into discussion on the same subject again.
It was not a question of cost it was a question of
principle.
_ . . . . .

Mr. Prescott pointed out that a paper lately is-
sued by the Privy Council on education stated that
the average attendance at the Board Schools had
been 30 per cent. less than what provision had been
made for, and yet they were going in excess of
that.

The Chairman said they had discussed the mat-
ter sufficiently to come to a resolution, and he
thought it ought to come in the shape of either
supporting the plans in their present shape, or that
they be reduced to accommodate 400.
Major Walker remarked that according to the
letter from the Department there was undoubtedly
a much larger provision for infants than the De-
partment thought necessary. If it was neces-
sary to provide for that excess of infants there
should also be provision made for a proportionate
number of boys and girls; as the infants were not
in excess in this town over what they were in any
other.

Mr. Prescott : But you see, sir, it is making pro.
vision for more than we are called upon to make.
There ought to be enquiries made as to the num-
ber really requiring school accommodation.
Mr. Billingham reminded him that the time for
making enquiries as to the amount of school ac-
commodation required was past. They were there
strictly to adopt the plans as they were, or have
them altered in accordance with their orders.
_

Major Walker : We. decided to provide for 400
children, and I propose that the plans be altered to
accommodate 400 children.

Mr. Perry reminded them that the architect
stated that he had only provided for 400. One of
those rooms was not intended for educational pur-
poses at all.
Major Walker: I don't profess to be an archi-
tect. All that I say is that we want accommodation
for 400 children. _

---
Mr. Prescott : What was the object of Jrriting
this letter to the Department saying that the
architect has provided for 400 children, when the
Department says he has provided for more.
Mr. Smith You must understand, gentlemen, /
have had authority for the babies' room from you.
Mr. Prescott: But it was distinctly stated, as
Major Walker puts it, that the provision should be
for only 400 children, because I voted against it.
The question was, "Do these plans provide for 400
children ?" and your answer was in the affirmative.
We relied upon your word that the plans provided
for 400 children, and the result is that we shall
have to pay for 88 times 8 more than we were
asked to provide for. . .

The Cle'rk here read the original motion instruct-
ing the architect to provide for 400 children.
Mr. Prescott : That's it, exactly.
Mr. Stringer : It has occurred to me that if the
plans remain as they are and these rooms are re•
duced, we shall get to that number.

The Chairman : It is proposed by Major Walker
that the plans be modified to afford accommodation
for 400 children, in acoordauce with the resolution
in May:last. Is them Lny amendment?
Mr. Prescott : I propose that the aiodification be
such as to reduce it down to 311 chiMreu.
Mr. Scott here entered the room and the Chair-
man informed him of what had taken place.
Mr. Prescott's amendment was not seconded.
, Mr. Scott agreed with Major Walker to a large
, extent. He agreed that there was prudence in
providing for 400 when the minimum was 311.
, But he did not see!why he should vote for school
accommodation for 48ts. Ile objected to the babies
room and the Board Room, being taken as part of 1
the Board School accommodation for children.
The babies' room was simply a vestibule where
children' were left who were not brought under in-
struction, and they certainly could not consider the
Board room as affording school accommodation for
children.
After a lengthened discussion, Major Walker's
resolution was put to the meeting and carried ; there
being for it—Messrs. Billinghani, Stringer, and
Walker; against, Mr. Scott; the Chairman and
Mr. Prescott remaining neutral.
In the course of the discussion, Mr. Scott re-
marked that an architect in London could not give
the same attention to the subject as a local archi-
tect.
Some formal business VMS transacted, and the
following cheques were then drawn, namely, .C. 7.
Ifor rent due to the Commissioners; £3O salary due
to the Clerk; and 168 60 for postages.
There was no other business of importance.