The Stourbridge Observer, Cradley Heath, Halesowen & District Chronicle.
Stourbridge, West Midlands, England, 1875-03-06 00:00:00

,:s'.l( s: rjp
AR. 6, 1875:-

(r'?

pulsory by-law. Mr. Fawcett disclaimed the advocacy of
universal School Boards, but he contended that some kind
of compulsion was needed to get the agricultural children
to school. This he enforced by citing the reports of the
Inspectors and dwelling on the anomalies of the Agricul-
tural Children's Act.
Lord F. Cavendish, in seconding the motion, also argued
that the Agricultural Children's Act is a failure, and ap-
pealed to the country gentlemen opposite to make rural
education more effective in the interests of their labourers
and of religious education.
Mr. Pell, as an amendment, moved that it is undesirable
to withhold from children employed in agriculture the ad-
vantages secured to children employed in other branches of
industry by the services of Her Majesty's Inspector of
Factories. He admitted that the enforcement of the Act
could not be left to the squire and the parson, and suggested
that eight new Insr ectors of Factories should be appointed
for the purpose. School Boards and compulsion, Mr. Pell
admitted, were very unpopular in the rural districts, never-
theless he insisted with much earnestness that the country
gentlemen and the farmers were not opposed to the spread
of education among the labourers, and dwelt on the gradual
improvement visible in the rural districts in this respect,
and the growing dislike of the labourers to send their women
and children to work in the fields.
Mr. Cross commented on the vague and indefinite
character of Mr. Fawcett's abstract resolution, which made
no kind of suggestion how what he urged was to be ac-
complished. Public opinion, he pointed out, was gradually
advancing in the matter of education, but he feared that if
fresh legislation were attempted before the Agricultural
Children's Act had been three months in operation, there
would be a risk of creating a condition of public
opinion unfavourable to the general adoption of the
Education Act. He dwelt on the danger of re-
viving female labour which might result from too
sudden an interference with boy labour, and he
showed that in the absolute numbers of attendance there
had been a great stride in the agricultural districts. As to
Mr. Pelt's amendment, he objected to the appointment of a
new Army of Inspectors, but he 'mentioned that he had
recently issued instructions to the Inspectors to report espe-
cially on the working of this Act. He reminded the House,
too, that a Royal Commission on the Workshops Acts
was about to be appointed, and, on the whole, before taking
any further steps, he thought it better to wait for further
information.
After remarks from several other hon. members,
Mr. Forster contrasted the stringency of the law protects
ing the factory child with its neglect of the agricultural boy's
education, and in answer to the argument that the farmer-
must not be harassed into opposition, he pointed out that if
the manufacturers had been listened to the educational pro-
visions of the Factory Acts never would have been carried.
In this matter special knowledge was too often special plead-
ing. But he believed that opinion was more ripe in the coun-
try districts than had been represented. Mr. Forster next
"took stock" of the progress of education in regard to school
accommodation and attendances since the passing of the
Education Act, and showed that the problem had been com-
pletely solved only in the great towns where direct compul-
sion had been adopted. On the value of compulsion Mr.
Forster dilated with much earnestness, laying down the
principles on which he believed a general law might be enacted
and incidentally he expressed a general approval of the new
Code circulated yesterday as apparently a wise and judicious
endeavour to raise the standard of Education.
Lord Sandon repeated the Home Secretary's argument
that, while the Agricultural Children's Act had only been
eight weeks in operation, it would be unwise to take another
forward step, and pointed out that the factory legislation
had been gradual and tentative At the same time, he gave
some details tending to show that the quality of education in
rural districts surpassed that in the towns, and he referred to
various passages in the Report on the Employment of Women
and Children illustrating the practical difficulties of
applying the compulsory principle to agricultural pur-
suits. He deprecated precipitate action, because it was
evident that the opinion of the labourers was just on the
turn in favour of education, and the mind of the country was
on the poise in regard to universal compulsion. The Govern-
ment would carefully watch the operation of the Agricul-
tural Children's Act, but they must not be hampered by an
abstract Resolution, and he appealed to the past achieve-
ments of the Party as a title to confidence in this matter.
The Marquis of Hartington expressed his dissatisfaction
with the vague declaration of the Government, and urged
Mr. Fawcett to take the opinion of the House upon it. Mr.
Fawcett replied, and Mr. W. Egerton and Mr. Storer en-
deavoured to address a few words to the House, which were
unheard amid the loud cries for a division, after which Mr.
Fawcett's motion was negatived by 229 to 149.
Another division was taken, after some confused* conver-
sation as to the most fitting mode of procedure, on Mr.
Pell's amendment, which was negatived by 226 to 150. Mr.
W. Egerton then moved a further amendment—" That con-
sidering the limited period of the existence of the Agri
cultural Children's Act it is undesirable that there should
be any further legislation at the present time" Mr. Locke
declared himself unable to decide a question which was so
suddenly started, and moved the adjournment of the debate
Mr. Forster spoke in favour of Mr. Locke's motion, which
he thought the Government bound to support, after their
claim to be left untrammelled to watch the operation of the
Agricultural Chadren's Act. On a division the motion to
adjourn was negatived by 227 to 144, whereupon Mr. Mac-
gregor moved the adjournment of the House.
Mr. Disraeli remarked that this Session had hitherto been
so quiet that he had not felt inclined to interfere with a
course of tactics a little more exciting. But as the House
had disposed of the main business of the evening by very
decidedly rejecting Mr. Fawcett's motion, he thought the
best thing it could do now was to adjourn. Mr. Sullivan,
however, objected to this course, as it would prevent cer-
tain returns being moved for which were necessary to esta-
blish Mr. Mitchell's qualification. On a division, however,
the motion was carried by 224 to 41, and the House adjourned
at ten minutes to one o'clock.
ferfse

UNIVERSITIES (SCOTLAND) BILL,
In thellousE OF COMMONS, March 3, Mr. Cowper-Temple
moved the second reading of the Universities (Scotland)
(Degrees of Women) Bill, the object of which was, he ex-
plained, to declare that it should be, and ought to be, in the
power of the authorities of the Scottish universities, if they
should think fit, in their d iscretion with which it was not
proposed to interfere to extend the power of admission to
the universities of female students, and so to remove that
badge of illegality and invalidity that had been stamped
on the proceedings of tee universities by the Scottish courts
of law. Dealing with the objections to the measure, the
right hon. gentleman stated that the main opposition to it
came from tile medical profession, who alleged that women
were not competent to practice in the profession, though
their principal reason was no doubt the fear of competition.
With regard to the latter point he urged that there was
a large sphere of action into which females might enter
without interfering with medical professors of the other
sex, the treatment of the diseases of women, for example,
many cases of which in their lighter form were at present
not attended to at all ; while in India there was a great
field in the attendance upon native women, whose relations
or guardians would seldom allow them to be seen by Eng-
lish medical men. As to the ground of competency, he con-
tended that incompetency arose only from lack of oppor-
tunity, and quoted examples showing that women had
proved themselves capable of receiving a high education
when the chances of acquiring it lay in their way.
Mr. Maitland moved that the Bill be read a second time
this day six months, and, remarking that lie had no desire.
to check the education of women, he contended that the
present measure had been framed by persons who were
altogether unfamiliar with the Scotch Universities, and
that, were it passed, it would lead to the constant popular
agitation. lie denied the statement in the preamble of
the Bill, that doubts existed concerning the admission
of women to the Scottish universities, and stated that
women were, and always had been excluded from them.
He objected to the bill on the ground that it was an en-
abling bill, that would give power to the University Court,
which he considered was not a proper controlling body. He
had no objection to the training of women, but urged that
Parliament itself should provide for it, and not leave the
decision of such a question to a university over which the
Lord Rector for the time being—who might be a man of
genius without possessing sterling common sense—would
have an overruling power.
Sir W. Anstruther seconded the amendment, and urged
that if the question of the higher education of women were
to be considered by this House, it should be on its merits,
and that a great national change such as the Bill proposed
to make, and which would seriously affect the great schools
of Edinburgh and Glasgow, should not be carried by a side
wind. It would render necessary a double staff of professors,
and in Edinburgh the building of a new hospital.
After remarks from Dr. Cameron, Mr. Forsyth, Mr. Beres-
ford-Hope, Mr. M. E. Neel, Mr. Orr-Ewing, Mr. Mark
Stewart, and Mr. MeLagan,
Dr. Lyon Playfair said the House; could not be aware
of the nature of the Bill, if he might judge by many of
the speeches made with regard to it. The scope of the
Bill did not consist in the admission of women to the
medical profession; it proposed to allow them to gra-
duate in arts, medicine, law, and divinity. The Bill would
alter the constitution of the universities in a most
profound way and deal with them in a most trivial way,
and it was an alteration and not a declaration of the law
that the House was asked to make. This Bill of one clause
would override the whole constitution, habits, and tradi-
tions of all the Scottish universities, and place the power in
the hands of the University Courts. He declined to discuss
the large question of female education on a small bill which
the universities did not require, and he pointed out that the
measure would necessitate changes that it made no provision
for. He opposed the Bill.
Mr. Stansfeld warmly supported the Bill, and objected to
the trades union feeling that he considered existed among
professional men, and among no class more so than doctors.
Hon. members had, he said, pointed out the fitness of women
for nursing the sick, but they declined to go a little further
and say that if women could nurse they could prescribe.
The plain question to be settled was this the
University of Edinburgh proposed to admit certain
ladies to the university, the supreme court of law in Scot-
land decided against the action, and that it was ultra vires ;
and this Bill proposed to put it within the power of the
Scotch universities to admit those ladies, and to meet the
legal question that had been raised. He had no doubt that
if the Bill were carried the University of St. Andrew's would
accept it and carry it out.
Mr. Roebuck asked what the objections to this Bill were.
They might be covered as hon. members pleased, but at the
bottom they sprung from a trades union opposition; money
was at the bottom of it, and it was a " coward fear" on the
part of the medical profession that they wovid have more
competition to contend with when women were against them
In the field. They would leave a stain upon this House if
they refused to allow women to use their own intellects to
gain their livelihood.
The Lord Advocate denied that the opposition to the
measure proceeded in any way from a spirit of trades union-
ism ; on the contrary, lecturers had given their services for
the teaching of ladies at one of the universities, and it was
only when they found that the experiment could not
be worked without preventing them from doing justice to
a large number of students that they discontinued them:
He objected to the spirit in which legislation on the
question was undertaken, and asked why the movement
should be directed solely against the Seotch universities,
instead of including those of England as well. lie
admitted that in 1869 he had attempted to deal
with the question in connection with the University Courts,
but experience had since proved that great difficulties would
have to be overcome before satisfactory arrangements could
be made for extending the educational advantages of the
Scotch universities to women. If the Bill were a right one,
lie thought it ought not to be permissive but compulsory.
Regarding it as an attempt to bring about legislation in
favour of women without having considered the conse-
quences, he hoped the House would not consent to read
the bill a second time.
Mr. Cowper-Temple briefly replied, and the House divided,
when the numbers were : For' the second reading, 151 ;
against, 194 ; majority, 43. The Bill was accordingly re-
-ected.