The Dorset County Express and Agricultural Gazette.
Dorchester, Dorset, England, 1859-03-22 00:00:00

HOUSE OF coMiloNS.—TuEsDAy.

The House had a morning sitting, at which
Sir J. TUELAWNC moved the second reading of the
Church-rates Abolition Bill.
Mr. (I.IViITii ~,,, ved, as an amendment, a resolution
" That any amendment of the law relating to ChUreli-
rates whieh should exempt persons contributing to the
supprt of some other ji:ace of worship than the parish
church f the payment of the rate, at the -simile tone
that the existing machinery for the support of the fabric
of the Church of England should be continued in opera-
ti ~,, upon the members of her own cot 1111 l union, is worthy
of the consideration of this House." His speech in sup.
port of this Ali 111 l endinent embraces' a great variety of
topics, sonic IJ them new to the debate Infant the
Mr. S. EsTCoe KT teco 11111 l ended Mr. Driffith, as lie
had hail an opport 'ty, for nearly an hour, of stating
lii.. Views, to withdraw his resolution, which could lead
to no substantial result.
After A few observations by Mr. STEVAIIT, the amend-
ment was withdrawn.
Mr. Hoeg then moved to defer the second reading of
the Bill for six 1111 l The cry svitist Cliiirch.rates.
he mid, came from a divided and composite party ; the
skiiintol for the total abolition of the rites he traced to
a political orkitiir.ition. Which employed it as A in
315
to an end—the destruction of Church property. Ile
reviewed the object' to the existing system of raising
the rates. and suggested remedi..s, inelusling the exemp-
tion of Inmenters, protesting againat all achemes which
involved spoliation.
The amendment was seeimiled by Mr. hsrriws, who
wished, lie suit, on the one hand, to afford to Nonesiti-
fsi 111 l ists the relief to which they considered themselves
entitled, out the other, to secure to ChUrclimen the
power to carry out what they regarded as a salutary
mode of maintaining the fabric of the church.
Mr. I tsitiiit V. regretted that the time for pro-
mise upon this subject bad gone liy. It was no resson
however for refusing to slo justice becatnie reclaim, par-
ties rejected all compromise. and lout ulterior objects.
Ile was prepared to debate this question as to the
sality of the tax, which was, he asserted, in its ori•sis
crilinitary. But was the existing state of the law, lie
asl;ed, satisfactory? What was the miss of maintaining it,
when, as lie believed. there w. no danger to the fabrics
of churches? We had the example of Scotland
before us, and the parishes in England where no church-
rstes were levied, yet where the churches were kept in
perfect repair.
Mr. S. WoHrtgv said he hail always contended
against a total abolition of chireli-ratea, and been
anxious for a Cotillion se; lie thought that all
attempts either at Litho; or compr •ses were
now hopel...s. The deciai 111 l upon Mr. Walpole's Bill
was a declaration that this fester would yield to no
remedy but absolute extinction. We had come
to a state of things when the existing law could not be
maintained without injury to the Church as well as
the cs 111111 l unity. After much itelitierati 1111 l he bad arri•
veal at the VinClUsion to vote for the second reading of
the !till.
Mr. S. HERBERT said he would not discuses the history
of church-rates or whether they were legal or illegal.
These rates li;d altered their character i 11111 l enaely
is Willi the last few years ; since a majority in the
parish could decide whether there Al lit he a church-
rate or not, the whole question had changed. The
present state of things, in his opinion, would he prefera-
ble to that wi.ich would be brought about if Mr. Val-
isle's Bill had passed. Ile was not, therefore, in a
hurry to alter the law. Not all who opposed church-
ratea were dissenters ; the rates were resisted from the
col 1111 l on antipathy to a tax. The Bill proposed to
remove an injustice to Dissenters, alid its effect certainly
would he to relicts.. Dissenters ; but how would Church-
men stand ? The real truth was that the Church of
England was parochial in the emintry and congregational
in towns. The nearest *mimed, to an equitable adjust-
ment of this question was the proposal of Sir A. Eltan,
Mal he would urge that every place and virish aliould
be allowed to determine for itself, which will put an end
to all dimension. rules., some Melt change was intro-
duced into the Bill, he must vote against the second
reashimm
Mr. l'xesE and Lord J. MANNERS spoke against the
nee I reading of the Bill, and Mr. Dur.i.swoon in its
favour.
Sir .1. TRFLAWNT replied. and, upon a division, the
second reading was carried by 242 to ICA.
In the evening the house was counted out.
WEDSESD.AI'.

....... _ _ _
The Tramways (Ireland) Biit WAS committed pro
forma.
lln the order for the second reading of the Bank-
ruptcy, and Insolvency Bill. moved by Lord.!. Rcongl.t.,
Mr. BAINES, expressing the feelings and views of the
commercial community in the north of Engbuid, aiJ
the fhll, with the amendments it could receive in the
col ..... ittee, was likely to be an extremely valuable mea-
sure in remedying the defects in the bankruptcy law. In
the district he represented it was proved that under the
present system there was a waste of 50 per cent, of the
104.2 S of the bankrupt's estate. The Bill repealed poi,
tins of 20 different Acts in which the existing law
was to be found, and minced this plicate,' syetem
to a single Act, containing a code of Bankruptcy Law.
The ATT, MN VA-GENERAL concurred in much of what
had fallen from Mr. Baines, especially as to the neces-
sity and urgency of some great alteration in the Bank-
ruptcy law. With respect to its main features, this
Bill. he illought, denrved the sanction of Nigh mt,
though it required amendment f its details in the com-
mittee. He agreed that the amid if the distinctions
between traders and nowtraders and between bank-
ruptcy and insolvency ought to be embodied ill any
Bill that should receive the sanction of the Legislature.
As to the consolidation of the Bankruptcy Law, he should
have an opportunity hereafter, when the other Bill (the
Lord Chancellor's) was before the House, of stating his
views upon the subject. his had no objection to the
second reading of the Bill, with tlie understandin.t that
its further stages should wait until the other Bill was
received from the Isinhc
Mr. VANCE ObjeCrvd to certain clauses of the
Mr. J. Pap:glum cordially concurred in the princi-
ples of the Bill. awl rejoiced to ace iii it a long step
towards the abolition of arrest for debt, except in cases
of fraud.
Mr. tWrORD said the opinion of the mercantile
en ...... unity was adverse to the Lord Chancellor's Hill,
and in favour of the Bill before the House.
Mr. Cowax advocated the Bill.
Mr. MOrrAT said although there was a strong desire
on the part of the mercantile c 1111 l munity to adopt
Ii of this Hill, the object. to it were AO 111.11Orrortis,
that be suggested that it should be referred to a select
committee.
The Hill was supported by Mr. AKROrD, Mr. MEAD
-
LAW, and Mr. Citosstgr.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he bad no objection to the pro.
posal of the Attorney-Generid, that the Bill should not
be committed until the House was in possession of and
hail had time to *insider the Bill expectcd (ruin the
other House. He replied to the objections of Mr. Vance
and Mr. Moffatt.
The Bill was then read a second time.
The Registration of County Voters (Scotland) Bill,
and the Elections, Lc., Bill, were likewise read a second
time.
On the order for going into oommitte upon the Luna-
tic Poor (Ireland) Bill,
Colonel Gamut, after urging various obieetions to

the macltinery and provision,' of the Bill, moved to
defer the committee for ox ((((( tiths.
Lord NAAS said the objections had been iiscussed
fully on the second reading of the Bill, which was founded
'limn the reominnendations of a Commission. Ile
reviewed these rem ttttt nendations, showing the extent to
which they bad beLn adopted in the Bill, and stating the
reason:, for the non•adoptiou of one of the suggestions of
the I• ..sionerc
Mr. J. FirvatuAl.l) could not support Greville's
'notion, which would put an end to the Bill, being of
opinion that there ought to be legislation upon the sub-
ject, and he recommendol its withdrawal, in order that
he 'night "stove that the Bill be referred to • select coin-
inittee, to be empowered to introduce a provision that
the expenses of mai.itaining the lunatic poor in Ireland
ehahi be raiscsl by rates levied in the sense manner as
rates for the relief of the destitute pour under the Irish
Poor Itelief Acts. Ile argued at Ii nth in defence
a thin proposition, and against certain portions of the
losciiiiiery of the Bill.
Col. I:RI:VILLE withdrew his motion, and Mr. FITS-
GIEItALD thereupon
.%ftCr Comiderable discussion, in which the amend-
ment ens strongly pressed by Irish members. Lord Naas
reluctantly gave way, and the Bill was ordered to be
rtteri eft to a select co ttttt aittee without any special
inst ruct
On the order for going into committee upon the Oaths
Art Amendment Bill,
Mr. S. 1:,root•lir asked for an explicit statement of
the reel object of the Bill.
Mr. IPorvvrtir said its .object was to relieve the con-
scienti•ons scruples of Quakers, by altering the font, of
Alliraisat ion required by a clause of the Act of last year,
which had passed pcs• inettridria.
Mr. IlysTINcK doubted whether tbe enactmert was
not an esoeut one, to remedy au important omission,
the welds objooted to being simply an undertaking to
defend Her 31ajesty.
The House went into committe upon the Bill, the
et:towsmi w Melo were agreed to.
Tlw Ikcreatiou Grounds Bill was read a third time
awl loasoNt.
The Saint dames llaldersby Marriage Validity Bill was

read a second time.
.1 conversation arose upon a motion by Mr. ATRTON,
that the Municipal Elections Bill, the amendments of
which in committee stood for consideration, be re-coni.
milted.
The objects awl provisions of the Bill were explained
by Mr. limas, and the tion was withdrawn.
crrtain amendment', of the Bill were agreed to.
The report of the Committee of Supply was brought
up and agreed to.
The Mutiny Bill, the Marine Mutiny Bill, and the
County Courts Bill were read a third time and
The House adjourned at a quarter past 5 o'clock.
c
THURSDAY.
In reply to Mr. LABoITHERE,
Sir B. Lvrrox said Her Majesty's Government, with
the full concurrence of Mr. Gladstone, were of opinion
that to lay that right lion. gentleman's report on the
state of the lonian Islands on the table would be
attended with great injury, and would greatly embarrass
Sir Henry Storks.
Mr. Geeoorte moved for a Select Committee to '
inquire into the reorganization of the British Museum.
As the motion was agreed to by the Government, it
was riot necessary, he said, that he should enter into an
elbaorate statement of his reasons for making it. He
nevertheless gave a description of the state of the seve-
ral departments of the Museum, and indicated the
different subjects which, in his opinion, required inves-
tigation.
Lord ELCHO considered that ample materials were
already at the command of the Government, and that
this was not a time for inquiry, but for action. At all
events, he thought, before the committee was granted,
the subject should be referred to the trustees.
After some remarks by Mr. SLANET, Sir.!. SHELLEr,
and Mr. M. Mr I.NEs,
The Chaseesum of tine Exchequta said be had been
of opini 111 l that, with the information the Government
already bad, and might command, further inquiry was
unnecessary. But the pressure of public business would
prevent them from dealing with the subject this year,
mid he thought the appointment of a committee could
do no liana awl might do good ; it would form no
oltdacle to the Gove ent dealing with the question.
lie therefore did not oppose the motion.
Lord Russuss made a few observations.
Sir G. LEWIn doubted whether the committee would
understand, from the terms of the motion, what Was
the subject referred to them, and thought the objects of
inquiry should be more clearly defined.
Mr. S. ESTCOURT concurred with Sir G. Lewis, and
suggested an annendinent of the motion.
Mr. Giteuines, after sonic further discussion, with-
drew the motion, for the purpose of reintroducing it
mu a different form.
Fir A. ELToN moved an address to Her Majesty, pray-
ing her to give directions that the benefits conferred by
the Royal warrant of the 17th of December, 1855, upon
regimental quartermasters retiring subsequent to the
date of the declaration of the war with ltusssa, may be
extended to those who complettsl the period of service
specified inn the warrant, but had retired previous to that
date, lie thought, he said, it was not worth while to
shut out these few old soldiers during the short re-
maunder of their lives.
At the suggestion of the Speaker the form of the
'notion was altered.
It was seconded by Colonel Noarrt. and supported by
Sir W. tiontixiirou and Sir W. WILLIAMs.
General Prid, said, if lie followed the bent (if his
inclination he nil Id at once acctsle to the motion; but,
if the wsrrant was to be made retrospective, it must be
estimileil to all other branches of the service, stone of
which had equal claims, and all prospective inqinnve-
Menlo would lead to similar applications, lie must,
therefore, "mime: the 'notion.
Lordlm msteuszinx agreed with General l'eel, and
pointed out caNes which showed the inconvenience of
establishing such a precedent,
Sir Esrox withdrew his motion.
Sir J. TiII..LAWN V moved for a Select Committee to
inquire into the nature and extent of certain privileges
enjoyed by Her Majesty's Household Infantry, men-
tioned in the report of at' ',onion of April, 18501, as
"tire Privileges of the Guards ;" also, whether such
privileses have a tendency to produce dissatisfaction or
dimisni:ll the efficiency of tine army. He enumerated
the various points inn connexion with the privileges of
the Gnards to which he thought the inquiries of the
cosimnittee should be directed.
General Peet. said, if the committee were granted it
would be a coisionittee tin inquire not into the privileges
of the Guards, but into the prerogative of the Crown ;
tire mot ion t therefore be altered to one for an
address to the Crown. During the last 1$ years this
subject hail been investigated thoroughly by no fewer
thmi four Commissions. The privileges of the Guards
had been most materially altered by the Warrant of
1543-1. Sir J. Trelawuy had fallen, he said, unto mis-
takes and misapprehensions. Tire motion was uncalled
, for; every information upon the subject was before the
House.
Lord Buhr hoped that the motion would not be
pressed. and adverted to various points respecting which
Sir .1. Trelawney, he said, laboured under mistake.
The lion was opposed likewise by Colonel Nonni,
Sir H. VERNET, Sir W. Conmenros, and Sir W. Wit.-
sits's. and sulmorted by Mr. Coe et;HAM.
Sir .1. TRELAWNri having replied, the House divided,
when the motion was negatived by 133 to 31.
Mr. Basin moved for and obtained leave to bring in
a Bill to amend the laws which regulate tine qualifica-
tion and regiatraf of Parliamentary voters in Ireland.
Mr. IlanErldm en for leave tin bring in a Bill to
enable sergeants and barristers-at-law, attorneys and
solicitors, to practice in the High Court of Admiralty.
The .trrinllNKS-GENEttAI. said it was the intention of
the Government to bring in • Bill that would accomplish
all the objects proposed by Mr. Hadfield.
Leave, however, was given to bring in the Bill, as
well as a Bill to amend the law relating to the convey-
ance of lands for charitable uses.
Mr. SHERIDAN moved fur leave to bring in a Bill to
reduce the duty on fire insurances. lie wished, Inc *aid,
to have an opportunity of laying the Bill upon the
table, in order that the House might see his propoaition.
which he explained, as well as the extent to which it
would affect the reveaue, and the prospect of its repro-
ductiveness by bringing under insurance property
hit Inert° red.
Sir S. Nowlin:oTE opposed the motion, distru4ing the
aasumption that the proposition would lint affect the

revenue.
17pon a division, the motion was negatived by 112 to
10'2.
Sir S. Noterticovit obtained leave to bring in • Bill to
amend the t:alway Harbour and Port Act.
Mr. HADFIELD Mined OM Addlela for • Royal Com-
mission to inquire into the laws, tribunals, prisons, and
adininistration of the public charities of Jersey.
Mr. WALPOLE supported the motion. These subjects,
in his opinion, deserved inquiry. and the Commission
was likely to have a very good effect.
Mr. S. Eiercoenv, On the part of the Government,
offered no opposition, and the motion was agreed to.
Sir S. Noternetrrx obtained leave to bring in • Bill to
contibue an Act, entitled, "An Act to amend the laws
relating to Savings-bankx in Ireland."
A motion by Sir C. NAPIER for copy of letters from
Sir Baldwin Walker, on the state of the Navy, to the
Admiralty, or the First Lord of the Admiralty, which
was resisted by Sir J. PAKINGTON, gave rise to •
rather smart desultory discussion upon the whole sub-
ject of naval administration. terminating in • division,
when the motion was negatived by 177 to Ai.
The House went into oonunittee upon the Law of
Property and Trustees Relief Amendment Bill, and the
' Ecton and Wilton Exchange Bill.
The Oaths Act Amendment Bill was read a third
time and passed.
Other Bills were forwarded a stage, and the House
adjourned at 12 o'clock.
------- -

FRIDAY.
Mr. ROEBUCK moved that the House, at its rising, do
adjourn until Monday. in order, he said, that he might
address some observations to the House, and put certain
ouestions on the subject of Parliamentary Reform.
Lon! .1. Russell had given notice of resolutions which in
form. t 1 di not in reality, would negative the motion
of the l'haneellor of the Exchequer for the second read•
ing of hi, dill. and the result might be that there would
lw ii. eliamw of passing a Reform Rill this year. and the
subject would be put off indefinitely. He proposed to
Lord John to adopt a precedent of his own last year, in
relation to the Hill for the Government of India, and
enlarge his propositions KO AB to lay A foundation for a
new And better Rill ; and he asked the Chancellor of
the Eadiequer whether, if such a course were pursued,
the Government would forego their present Rill, and
bring in another framed on the resolutions adopted by
the House. lie roomed the House that the consequence
of passing the resolutions AS they at present stoat would
be to piece the destinies of the country in the hands of
those who formed the late Government, which he was
not prepaml to do, and, in the present condition of
affairs abroad, a dissolution of the Government, at a
ttttt ment when English opinion kept the world at peace,
might lead to instantaneous war. Under these circum-
stance lie asked Lord John Russell not to persevere in
the course he had proposed, or on his shoulders would
rest the consequences.
After some observations from Mr. Cox on the subject
of the ballot,
Mr. T. Du xcoxillV, in the form of a question, revived
the subject of the Huntingdonshire magistracy and the
borough elections, which led to a discussion relating to
local politics, in which General PEEL and Mr.
FaLLowrs took part.
Lord .1. RUSSELL, in reply to Mr. Roebuck, said it
appeared to him that a question involving a discussion
of a Bill which stood for • second reading on Monday
was at once irregular and Kentature. lie should there-

fore only then say that, in his opinion, the Government
hail taken the right course in Kilt-using a Bill for
amending the representation of the people, and he
trusted that on Monday he should satisfy the House
that he was not wrong in proposing his Resolutions in
the form of an amendment to the nioLion for reading
the Bill a second time. As to the question of the ballot,
lie should never shrink from it, and was ready to give
his vote oisin it. Then, addressing his question to
Lord Stanley, lit-asked whether, as it appeared that the
pacification of Gude was eon/plebs, and the revolt iu
India quelled, it was the intent' of Her Majesty's
Ministers to propose a vote of thanks to the Governor- I
General aoil Lord Clyde, and to the other oaken, civil
and military, who had distinguished themselves in the
late great and glorious campaign. He should have left
this matter, lie adiled, in the hands of the Government
but for certain papers which had been laid upon the
table of the House. He had read with wonder the cold
and sneering tone of the despatch of the 9th of December
to the Governor-General of India.
Lord Patugesrox ,odil he deeply regretted that laird
Stanley should have (At it hisilisty, as IL Minister of the
Crown, to write the sneering, ironical despatch to Lord
Ca gof the 9th of December.
Mr. WISK asked the ruder Secretary of State for
Foreign .11Tairs how that:lo.oW voted mo tl.e estimates
for the Foreign-office messengers was disposed of ; what
was the tenure of the office of 9 teen's Foreign Service
Messenger and what were the regulations which had
been recently made with referents: to the remuneration
of that corps.
Mr. S. Fs trarttittn gave the required information,
adding that on Monday or Tuesday he should lay upon
the table papers upon the subject.
Other questions having been asked and answered,
On moving the order fur going into cominitte upon the
Superannuation Bill,
.Sir S. Northoote explained the principles of the
Bill.
Sir If. Wittounsinv -ed, by way of amendment, a
resolution " That all deductions from salaries in order
to font; a fund for superannuations having been abo-
lished, it Li not expedient to add to the amount of pub-
lic charge by an increase in the scale of *operas:n.7_-
1 lion." . .

Mr. Gt..tmeroNg observed that this was a very serious
question for the consideration of the House, which was
called upon to go into committee upon this Bill without
'Knowing what classes were included within its purview.
and what was the burden about to be added to the heavy
charges upon the public finances. It was the absolute
duty of the House, he insisted, to have the best estimate
the Government could give, and it would not bejustified
in coming to a final vote upon the Bill without such
estimate.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS cordially supported the amend-
mat.
Mr. WILSON dwelt upon the ill-effects of agitation
among public servants, and recommended that the ques-
tion should be settled upon sonic broad principle. He did
not believe, he said, that the Bill would add more
than 12 or 13 per cent, to the present charge, and he op-
posed the amendment.
Upon a division the amendment was negatived by 131
to 29, and the House went into committee 'lll.ll the
Bill, time clauses of which were agreed to, after much
I discussion. .

The Sale of Poisons BiU was eotnmitted pro formd.
Other Bab, were advanced • stage, and the House was
counted out at half-past 1 o'clock.

There will he those who will be 0.4 to return Lim
again at Wsaltington after tune shall have in soave
degree softened the. bitterness of the cup which has
been presented to his bps."