The Stourbridge Observer, Cradley Heath, Halesowen & District Chronicle.
Stourbridge, West Midlands, England, 1872-02-17 00:00:00

CO-OPERATIVE STORES IN LONDON.

On Friday afternoon a deputation, consisting of the
executive committee of the National Chamber of
Trade, waited upon the Chancellor of the Exchequer
in Downingsstreet, and brought under his notice the
circumstances under which co-operative associations
formed and conducted by members of the Civil Service
were now trailing, and the results that were likely
thereby to arise. The deputation was headed by Mr.
Thomas Chambers, M.P., the Deputy Recorder of
London, and Mr. Arthur Kinnaird. M.P., and
included, among many others, Mr. A. B. Daniell,
Mr. Gotto, Mr. A. J. ('opeland, Mr. T. A. Simpson,
Mr. Savory, Mr. Slack, Mr. John Jones, Mr. Pepler,
Mr. King, Mr. IL Hanson, Mr. R. M. Curtis. Mr.
Dyer, Mr. Kent, Mr. Kell, Mr. Ellis, and Mr.
Arthur k Beckett, the secretary of the association.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer WWI accompanied by
Sir William H. Stephenson, chairman of the Board of
Inland Revenue.
Mr. Chambers, in introducing the deputation, said the
National Chamber of Trade represented the different branches
of manufactureis and commerce, and especially the extensive
retail busineas carried on in the metropolis and in the large
provincial towns. The gentlemen who formed that depu-
tation desired to bring to the notke of Her Majesty's Govern-
ment the constitution and recent development of certain
co-operative societies, which, though doubtless acting with
perfect legality. Sad engaged in operations not to their mind
altogether legitimate. The suldect was well worthy the
attention of the Chancellor of the F.xchequer, for not only
were hardships inflicted upon certain classes of the cam-
muuity, but the revenues of the country were materially
affected. They were aware that in a legal point of view they
had no redress, but they asked him to afford them in another
way some measure of relief. However illegitimate the earlier
stage of the existence of co-operative societies might have
been, their recent development had attained a form which
was never originally contemplated. He had to ask the
Chancellor kindly to hear and consider the statements of the
deputation.
Mr. A. Beckett, the secretary of the Chamber, said the
deputation had waited upon the Chancellor in consequence
of Wresolution passed at a meeting lately held In Exeter-hall,
at which it was determined to draw the attention of the
Government to the injustice inflicted upon private interests
by the civil servants of the Crown engageing themselves in the
management of large trading establishments. The Civil
Service Supply Association, of Monk well-street, City, and
Long-acre, was formed in 1865 under the provisions of the
Friendly Societies Act which was passed to relieve the
physical wants of the poorer classes, but to show to what
lengths it had grown it might be stated that, while in 1869
the grocery sales amounted to £152,010. and the sales of fancy
goods to .03,096, the same isles in 1871 were respectively
£908,000 and £lOl,OOO. The articles sold were advertised as
the best, end of these what might be called luxuries were by
far the greater number. The streets in which the stores
were situated were crowded by carriages daily. The
Association, it was believed, did not pay ally Income-tax,
and it therefore hada great advantage over individual trades,
men.
Sir William Stephenson ;interposing) said that was a
mistake, for the Association paid its full amount of Income-
ta
A Member of the deputation said E 500,000 was withdrawn
annually in this way front legitimate trade, to the serious
detriment of the national revenue.
Mr. Alleckett went on to say that the directors of that
Association received incomes in addition to their bonuses as
shareholders. In the Civil Service Co-operative Society,
whose stores were in the Haymarket, the chairman was the
Director-General of Stores at the India Office, who received
a salary of £4OO, and the managing director was a clerk in
the Adniiralty, who was paid VW. Five out of seven of the
directors were in the Civil Service in various positions. As
civil servants they were likely to have official information
which would give them opportunities, in the interest of
their societies, of purchasing articles at a cheaper rate than
ordinary tradesmen ; of obtaining valuable statistical know-
ledge, Fold of gaining front the Income-tax returns knowledge
which they might apply to the benelit of the stores with
which they were connected.
Sir William Stevenson said it was impossible, as a matter
of fact, that any civil servant could have access to those re-
tuna.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer said evene person hold-
ing his oilice could not for his life get a sight of tha returns
of any alle for Income-tax. It was a popular superstition
that the Government collected the Income-lax, but that was

ammo.
Mr. A'Beekett, continuing, remarked that the Lord (han-
cellor dismissed a gentleman holding a high position in the ,
Bankruptcy Gant for being engaged at the same time in
private financial business, and that the authorities of the
War Office Issued a memorandum three or boor years ago
forbidding any clerk or officer in that department engaging
In any agency, trade, or profession without the consent of
the head ~f the Department, and threatening dismissal to
any one infringing the order in that respect. :The Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer said that had never yet been a rule
In the Civil Service.) Now, the society in the Haymarket
had in 11507 about 2,500 members, and in 19;8 5.800, while in
1871 there 'acre 110 leas than 1100. Last year the sales of
grocery goods amounted to £031,000, of wines £41,000, and
of drapery goods £50,000, making a total of £322,000. The
gross profits were £30,500 and the expenses £00,123, leaving
a balance of £10,370. The association in Monkwell.street
sold last year grocery goods aniounting to £208,000 hosiery,
£120,002; fancy goods, £101,000; and wine, £53,000. He
added that the action of these societies had created wide-
spread discontent among a large body of taxpayers
Mr. Daniel said the deputation did not desire to enter a
protest against the formation of co-operative associations on
a fair and reasonable basis, but against the practice of per-
SOUR who were paid out of the taxes being in a position to
earn simultaneously by trade salaries ranging from £2OO to
£lOO a year. 'they were either overpaid by the Hovernment,
or their public duties were so light as to place at their dis-
posal for their private convenience a considerable amount
of time. Tile deputation wished the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer to cause an inquiry to be made as to the hours of I
work in the Civil Service, and to forbid public and Hovem-
meet officers trading. ale thought that the mere fact of a
Man carrying on a private business would effectually debar
him from being engaged in tier Majesty's Service, and if
that were it, why was the same principle not followed in
the present instances ? The establishment of cooperative
associations was undoubtedly a loss to the revenue, for those
bodies traded at a much smaller profit than tradespeople
could afford to trade for, and, therefore, from the same
quantity of goods a less amount of income would be dei
The question was whether the civil servants should he al-
lowed to trade in competition with those who were so
heavily weighted with taxation, and who list such large ex-
penses to meet. In certain classes of things it was utterly
impossible that tradesmen could compete with the socie-

ties.
Mr. Grotto said tne societies traded at a profit of 41 per
cent., but it was quite impossitele for tiadesmen to live upon
such a sum.
Mr. John Jones asked that the salaries of all the servants
of the Crown might he re-assessed by : ornament. Those
salaries, as they at present stood, had been calculated with
reference to a certain cost of living but, as a new system
had been started by which that cost a as considerably altered,
it woe only fair to t ispayers that there should be au equal
alteration in the salaries. On the other hand, the burden of
taxatien had been much increased, and people were now
being assessed unmercifully.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer said that did not come
from his Department, but from the Land Tax Commissioners,
with whom his only connection was that of having the plea-
sure of being abused for what they had done. ,A laugh.)
Mr. Jones continulug, said, taking into consideration the
annual "holidays, the Government officials worked on an
average of the year Si hours a day, and they thus had suffi-
cient time to interfere in matters of trade. It was an instance
of the saying:—
" Satan Rods some mischief still
For idle hands to do."
(A laugh.) As far as he was aware, the societies paid no
licence for their goods.
Sir W. Stephenson remarked that they took out licences
for everything they sold.
Mr. Jones said at all events they were people who, being
supported by the ea.nings of the public, and protected by
the State, had banded themselves together to injure society.
De added that the cm-operative principle, if largely odopted,
would bring about a social revolution, aud would have the
effect of creating a few rich masters and an enormous num-
ber of mere servants, and of abolishing the middle class of
tradesmen, to whose trade the revenue of the country was
so much indebted.
Mr. Kinnaird, MV, urged that the mere fact of the
sect ptance of an appointment in the Civil Service implied
an undertaking that the official should not engage in trade,
In banking and mercantile affairs the clerks were not al-
lowed to carry on private business, and he could not under-
stand why there should be any exception in favour of Go-
vernment officials.
Mr. T. A. Simpson said the deputation would not object to
the civil servants ea-ea:toting with a view to their own con-
venience, but they did object to stealthy people from the
outside being taken in. A great deal of public tinie was
wasted by these clerk-directors, and the system he believed,
was winked at by the heads of Departments. Great !mischief
was thus being worked, and he predicted that a Parlia-
mentary inquiry would expose a large amount of corruption
and wrong-doing.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer, in reply, admitted that
Ii Wag an improper thing that one of the co-operitive ease-
ciaiions mentioned had been formed under a provision of
the Friendly Societies Act, which statute, he said, was
either loosely framed or loosely administered. It was clearly
never intended to apply to such a class of persons as those
in the Civil Service Association. It was not for him to con-
sider what he might personally wish in the matter. The
Government paid the civil servants for their duties during
office hours, got as much work out of them as they thought
right and proper, and had not attempted to prescribe what
they should do in the rest of their time. Some of them wrote
books and plays, and another was an editor of u review.
It had not been hitherto the practice of the Govern-
ment to interlere with them. Without entering into
the question whether it was right for civil servants to carry
on business at au, lie confessed that his individual opinion
was against that practice. (Cheers.) But he believed
that if ever imeh a system existed it had now been stopped.
(. No, no.") However that might be, he had no power to
stop it As long as the clerks did their duty, he had no
right at present to interfere with them. He hod no doubt
that lie might disagree with many of their pnrsoits after
Mike hours (a laugh), tint it was not for hint to inter-
pose. It was a matter resting principally with the heads
of the Departments, but it was also a question of contract
between the Government and the clerks, by whidli, if
the latter did their duty, they hail no other control over
them. The complaint of the deputation might be very
just, but their real remedy waste go before Parliament and
state their case. ,Ilear, hear.) ite agreed with a great deal
they hat said, hut he repeated he had no power in the
matter. Ile laid been trying for three years to improve the
public service, and he hoped with some success, but he had
done no in the interests of the service itself, and not for any
collateral object. (Hear, hour.) He advised them, there-
fore, to put their case before the House of Commons, who
would deal with It in theiriVisdom. Ile admitted that It was
natund that they should feel much annoyed and distressed
on the subject, and he had given them the best advice that
he could.
The deputation, through Mr. Chambers, M.P.,
thanked the Chancellor for isis COlll teone epth in, and
withdrew.

The above meeting has; evoked revival letter: iti the
various London papers, from which we select the fol-
lowing :
Please allow a Civil servant a few words of reply to the
complaint brought against the Civil Service Supply Associa-
tion by the Committee of the National Chamber of Trade.
The association, as is well known, was formed in order to
agent servants of Government. who have fixed and limited
Income, a means of supplying themselves with netessaries