The Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1860-07-31 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS.-YESTERDIY

Lord Clyde took the oaths and his seat

The Marquis of NORMANBY moved for copies or extracts
from the despatches of her Majesty's ministers in Tuscany in
1855, 's64and '57, referring to the condition and administration
of the Roman States. his object was to complete the informa-
tion already produced as to his own conduct and that of Mr.
Lyons in these communications with the Papal Government.
Lord WODEHOUSE offered no objection, and the motion was
agreed to.

Lord St. LEONARDS called attention to the state of the law
respecting the duchy of Cornwall, especially as regards crown
debts.

The Lord CHANCELLOa said that he should have no objection
to any alteration in the law which could be shown to be con-
ducive to the public interests.

Lord BROUGHAM, in moving for certain returns connected
with the county courts, remarked upon the enormous amount
of business there transacted, and suggested the policy of trans-
ferring the court judges, as vacancies occur, to the superior
courts.
The returns were endorsed.

The Prisons (Scotland) and the. Titles to Land (Scotland)
Bills passed through committee ; as did the Municipal Corpora-
tions (Ireland) Act Amendment Bill, and the Party Emblems
(Ireland) Bill, and the County Courts Bill. The Highways
(South Wales) Bill, the Manchester Cathedral Church Bill,
the Felony and Misdemeanour Bill, the Postage, Army and
Navy, Bill, the Medical Act Amendment Bill, and the High-
way-rates Act Continuance Bill were read a third time and
passed.

Lord DENMA3, on the order of the day for the second read-
ing of the Stipendiary Magistrates Eill, asked the House to
consider it of sufficient urgency to suspend the standing order
prohibiting bills after the 17th of July from being reads second
time.

Lord Redesdale, Earl Yowls, and Lord Stanley of Alderley
opposed the motion, not thinking the bill of sufficient urgency.
The order was discharged, and the House adjourned at
eight o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-YESTERDAY.

The Speaker took the chair at four o'clock

In reply to Mr. B. Osborne and Sir C. Napier,
Lord JoHN RUSSELL said Lord Dufferin had been appointed
to represent this country in the Commission about to proceed
to Syria, for the settlement of the difficulties in that quarter.
Lord Dufferin had already been in Syria, and was well
acquainted with the people.

On the order of the day for resuming the debate on going
into committee on the European Forces India Bill,
Mr. Honsmax moved the adjournment of the debate, for the
purpose of urging the Primier to follow up Ms late speech, by
putting the national defences in order without delay. So
startling a speech had never been made in the House of Com-
mons, and he was astonished at the carelessness with which it
was received. The right hon. member was proceeding to make
one of his ordinary attacks on the ministers, when the Speaker
interposed, and told him that he was out of order in thus dis-
cussing a matter totally foreign to the subject.
Lord PALMERSTON thereupon observed that he was as
anxious as Mr. Horsman that the question of the national
defences should be settled, and as they were both of the same
mind on this matter, he trusted that the order of the day
might be allowed to proceed. The important question of the
Indian army once settled, no time would be lost in bringing
forward that of the defences of the kingdom.

The adjourned debate on the Indian Army Bill was then
resumed by

Mr. DANBY SEYMOUR, who complained that the object of the
Secretary for India seemed to be the possession of absolute
power. It ought to be the endeavour of the House to limit
that power. With this view he supported the instruction of
Mr. M. Milnes.

Colonel S/KES took a similar view as to the impolicy of
sting the Secretary for India with such exorbitant powers.
He pointed out the immense advantages which had already
resulted from the possession of a local Indian army, well
acquainted with the habits, the prejudices, and the supersti-
tions of the natives.
Sir C. Woon said that the appointments to the Indian army
were not altered by the present bill. With very few excep-
tions, the instructions would preclude the appointment to the
Indian service of officers of experience who happened to be in
England at any critical juncture.

Mr. Bras urged the withdrawal of the various amendments,
that the House might at once proceed with the committee on
the bill.

After some observations from Sir E . Colebrook, the motion
was negatived without a division.

Sir J. FERGUSON then moved that, in the opinion of this
House, it is inexpedient to proceed further with legislation re-
specting the European troops in India until the whole plan of
the Government for the regulation of the military force of that
country skull have been submitted to the consideration of Par-
liament. He objected to the proposal of the Government that
it was a gigantic scheme of centralisation, under which neither
the civil nor the military service of India could be adequately
carried on. That scheme had never been submitted to the
Indian Council, though it had been submitted to the Cabinet;
and he protested against this slight on men who had held such
hivh offices, and were so well acquainted with the true policy
of India.

The amendment having been seconded by Mr. T. Baring, it
was put by the Speaker.

Sir J. Elphinstone rose to sneak; but the Speaker decided
that he was too late.

The Howe then divided, when the amendment was negatived
by 88 to 50.

Sir J. ELPKINSTONE moved the adjournment of the House,
for the purpose of explaining a previous debate, and repeated
his objections to the course of the Government as most improper
and unconstitutional.

The motion for adjournment was seconded by Sir E. Cat-
brooke.

Sir H. WILLOUGHBY told the Secretary of State for India
that he had made a great mistake in not consulting his council,
and vehemently opposed the bill as unsettling everything, and.
settling nothing. He pointed out the enormous expense which
world be incurred by the proposed change, especially in the
transpoit of the regiments. The mode of carrying out the
amalgamation of two armies conducted on dieferent prin2iples
had never been explained, and no one as yet had ever attempted
to explain it.

Lord PALMERSTON rose to speak on the question, which was
that of the adjournment. He put it to the House, whether
they were not striking at the root of constitutional govern-
ment when the decision of the majority was not allowed to
prevail. In countries not accustomed to constitutions minori-
ties aid force. The present minority acted u 1 on a similar
principle, though differently carried out. He appealed to the
country as to the propriety of this course, and declared
that he should resist, as long as health and strength permitted,
what he must gall a factious opposition.
•
Sir J. ELPHINSTONE withdrew his motion.
Mr. Maums, disclaiming all factious apposition, objected cu
constitutional grounds to the measure, because it had been
introduced by the minister without taking the advice of hi*
council, and against their unanimous opinion. The rights of
the council, as created by the act of 1858, were ignored, and
the council itself practically abrogated, by the proceeding of
the Secretary of State.
The discus ion was continued by Lord C. Hamilton, Ccilonek
Sykes, Mr. Vanstittart. and Col. Dunne.
After some explanations from Sir C. Wood, in reply to,
various points raised during the previous discussion, followed
by some further observations by Colonel P. Herbert, Mr. Pa,r.
ker and Mr. Torrens, the house went into committee on the
bi'l.

:tit*. HENLEY moved the following proviso. Provided that
the provis ons made for the sons of persons who have served
in India, and the advantages as to pay, pension, allowances,
privileges, promotion and otherwise secured to the military
forces of the East India Company, by the Act of the 21st ansl
22nd years of the Queen, Cap. 106, Sec. 35, 58, and 58 respea,
tively shall continue and be maintained in any plan for the,
r eorganisation of the Indian Army, anything in this Act con,
tarred notwithstanding.
Sir C. Woo observed that all the pledges already given to
any class of persons, on account of the Indian, army establish-
ments, would be faithfully kept. As placing that determina-
tion on record, he assented to the intervention of the proposed,
proviso.

The bill was then pased through committee.
Lord PALMERSTON stated, in reply to questions, that he
intended to move the third reading of the bill on Thursday;
and if no very protracted debate arose, to take the Fortifica-
tion Bill afterwards.

The Senior Member of Council (India) Bill, the Superannua-
tion Act (1859) Amendment Bill, and the Admiralty Jurisdiction
(India) Bill, were pectively read a third time and passed.
In committee of the whole House, a resolution was agreed to,
preliminary to the introduction of a bill respecting the transfer
of East India stocks. The Ecclesiastical Commission Bill was
considered as amended, and ordered to stand for third reading.
The other orders of the d.s.y were disposed
and the House
adjourned at ten minutes past two.