The Dorset County Express and Agricultural Gazette.
Dorchester, Dorset, England, 1861-03-05 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COONS.-WEDNESDAY.
CHURCH ' MOULMON BILL.

After the presentation of a hoot of petitions, some of
them of • special character, against the total abolition
of Church-rates,
Sir J. Trylawny, in moving the second reading of his
Church-rates, Abolition BOP referred to the nego•
nations he hod entered into ineffectually to bring
about a comproinies upon this question, and recon.•
mended the opponents of the Bill to accept the proposal
he now mode, since, if they rejected it, they would
strengthen the party acting for ulterior ends, whereas
by 'wooing the Bill that oarty would lose a grievance.
Ho erved against the justice and policy of the rate,
throwing doubts al.oo the validity of its nricin, and
contended that the ooncesaions made by its &tendon
hod thrown overboard the principle that Church-raoe
was lose', itable from property, and had reduced the
queoti di to one of espendieney.
The motion was seconded by Lord Fenuoy.
Sir W. Heathcote denied that eoimeesiuns made in
order to get rot oh didlculties and siiiinoaities arising
from Church.ratas could bo said to be • surrender of
ito principle. Sir J. Trelawny had argued that the
abolition of these rates would strengthen the Church
of England ; but many of his supporters regarded this
Kill but as • 1004110 to an end, and ha I avowed that
it was considered es • step to the severance of Church
and Sta•e, so that the scheme was understood by them
ae one of unmitigated hostility to the Church of
England. He put it to the Government whether • tune
tool not arrived most favourable to • conciliatory
arrongement of this question, and he appealed to Ilia
own friends whether it we* nut their duty to consider,
as practical men, what was calculated to reotor• ond
establish peace. He moved we an amendment that
the second reading of Ni. Bill be deferred for sic
menthe.
Mr. Packs seconded the amendment.
Mr. Marsh thought there should be some little con-
cession on both sidep in this question. All great quo-
tions had h.eii compromises, and the irritiltion a hich
Church-rates keit up was damaging the interests of the
Church of England. He proposed as • comprot dor •
niode of exemption analogous to that recommended by
the Lords' ‘!tiiiiiiiittee.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer observed that there
seemed to he on both sides • growing persuaoion that it
would be for the credit of the Legislature that this
quution should be nettled. He confessed that be
remained of the opinion he had always held, and he
should refuse to vote for the second reading of this
Bill. If there were a strung neutinient in favour of the
abolition 4i.: Churcli-ratee, cm the other hand, when the
advocates the rates came forwerd by thousands and
tens of tho ode, asking Parliament to be allowed to
contini eto y them, it showed a strength of principle
anil purpose which Sir J. Trelawny would do well to
take into consideration. To get at the motile
COURT OF EXCHEQUER. Feß. 72. of the Church-rate question, it must be divided
Before the Lord CDIEV llittos mid • Common Jury. into two questions, &I respected two portions of the
country. 10 V 01.010114 'swishes it ridglit be in practice
WOOD C. FoßlitlL had, and he would abandon the principle of the rate '
This was en *enrol brought by the plaintiff, an inn- there ; hot in rural 'tantalum, where the rate was paid
keeper, the oroprietor of the Southompton Anus, in with as much satisfaction as any other public charge,
Chancery lane, against the defendant. the mother of • I why was this ancient law to he aholithed ? What paid
young gentleman, an ensith in the DorsetAire Militia, I the charge in rural parishes? The land, and it was
to recover the sum of 131 130. 2.1., the holonee of an proposed to force 050,000 • year upon the proprietors
account of £4l 130. 21.. for goods sum-lied to the deign. of land. If the law of Church-ratee wu an old and a
dant'o son. The defendent pleaded never intl.-bud. . good low—if it pruvided for Divine ordinances for the
Mr. Powell wing counsellor the plaintiff; Mr. Purrs ben. fit of the poor, warmth.' to a large majority of the
for the defen ant. population. it was too lunch to say that we were to
It si.prared from the elidence adduced on the part of aboliA such i law te meet, not the soruidee, hut the
tlt. pletattlf WM the 4e4ede4s, Mn. Yahoo, via fk eourmiese el iiidividialaP, lie noreled 80M 100

Legislature should begin by converting the power of
the majtirity of the parish into a right, drolly inaintaiii•
nig the right of the pariah to tea duff, giving to thou
parishes where toe luicient Church-rate had lapsed the
lower of raising • voluntary rate.
Mr. Bright °bum il that, as Mr. Gladstone proposed
virtually to &bland* Church-rates, lie should begin by
voting or the II:11. He denied that the evils which
Mr. Gladstone supposed likely to happen if this Bill
peened would happen, or what • deadueas would it argue
in tho population towards the Estalilislied Church !
What did the Dissenters object to? They felt that this
was • struggle for supremacy, a suptemacy asserted on
the part of • great utablialiment which was as inurfi
political as religious. Thu t Church was, be said, •
L'ivided Church, and lie asked whether it was worth
while to take the proposition of the Chancellor of the
Exclwipier, or any other propoaition based upon igno.
ranee of the state of feeling among the Nonconformist
population of England. Any attempt to settle thin
whatnot that left Church-rates unreposled would be •
failure.
Mr. Disraeli said this Bill was an assault on the
independence of parishes and on the integrity of the
Church ; soil on what ground ? The law of Chora-
1-ate was no real grievance to Diuenters, oho, if a
majority in the parish. could resat its imposition, and
if in the minority would yield to the opinion of the
majority,—• principle upon which our whole social
aystiou was bawd. It was impossible to say that any
class was aggrieved by a la' ancient in its character and
founded upon a popular principle. The Church of
Eagland virm a part of our nation 41 i•Atitnt iOll4, ••11 •
berrier against teL oeutralising supremacy which had
been in all ihr CoUtittiex so f,it.if to liberty. It ens
lwesnse thoi Bill we-s repugnant to the-e princii•lea th.it
he should offer to it an uncompromising opposition.
Lord J. Runell observed that this was a question not
of were abstract right, but what was most beneficial to
to the Church. He dish nut think the exemption of
Dissenters would effect • settlement of this question.
It seemed to linii that in assenting to such a plan
the value of a national Church would be overlooked.
He did tint Pee why thou w o differed from wiine of
the opinions of the Church of Englsiiil should not still
ewregtike"siiiir;dgPttillt'ai'kuw"eawiynaitAlgE2ZiOreel:i;ooonciatn.teituanHwalieytbeehadir:deinfiftron.citiri"Gtllireiln:a:Ce‘aili,Muhlftwhittiii:Jeff
England would cause our ancient parish churches to fall
into decay ; he believed that voluntary contributiono
would be forthcoming to ioamtain them. If so, it was,
in Ilia op , a great ativailtAgo to friends of the
Church to get nil of a cause of diffe-euce between them
and the Dissenters. By rejecting this Bill agitation
would not be allayed, and he did not think that the
prosperity 31 the Church of England depended upon the
maiutsnanee Claurch•rates.
. . .

Mr. Walpole said this question was not one of a
particular grievance, for which • remedy was to be
obtained, but simply whether Parliament should take
away what Lur I J. kneel' hail formerly usaintained to
he an obligation cast upon owner of property in
England, without providing • aubstituto or an equiva-
lent ; Lord John had suggested only voluntary con-
tributions, which never could be and never would be a
substitute.

Sir J. Trelawny having replied, upon • division the
amendment wi negatived by 2t31 to 266, and ths Bill
was read • second time.

The House, after some further basilicas, adjourned at
a quarter to 6 o'clock.

THURSDAY.
COlimmis OF SUPPI.T.--BrOUCTION OF PUBLIC
ZIPIINDITURB.

On the order for going into Gin:mitt*. of Supply,
Mr. Caini called attention to the perking defic:ency of
last harveat, and the oonmaluent neassaity for increaaed
economy in the public expenditure, lie described the
failure as having extended to potatoes as well ea the
cereal crops, and the prospects of the future harVent as
not much bettor; with the best weather, he said, we
could not hope for more than an average crop. Under
these circumstances, it seemed to him that there should
be a greater reduction of the public expenditure.

?BENCH occurAnott Irr SYRIA.
Sir J. Fergnswon called attention to Syrian affairs,
expressing his belief that, unless. other Powers inter-
fered to prevent it, the stay of the French troops in
Syria would be prolonged indefinitely, and he thought
it behoved the House to press upon the Government
the duty of interfering. He gave details regarding what
he considered to be the origin of the outbreak, showing
that the Drnses were not solely in fault. In his
opinion. evety day the French troops were kept in
Syria the prospect of its pacification became leas.
Mr. Lsyard, not differing from the Government in
their foreign policy, thought the question of the occu-
pation of Syria of such immense importance that he
could not help *eying frankly that be looked upon the
Convention as • most disastrous event,—disastrona in
It. principle and as a precedent, in the effects it had
already produced, and in the results likely to ensue
front it. Is the outbreak, the Maronites were the re-
sponsible parties, the Drums having offered to matte
their differences. With regard to the results of the
Convention, be thought it would tend to multiply
feuds, and the evils would go on for ever. The Conven-
tion ought to cease at once. The Turks should be left
to govern the country, and if they could net do so, the
country should be left to govern itself.
Lard J. Russell gave explanations on the subject of
Syria affairs. He adverted to the difficulties of the
question ; to the culpable neglect and misconduct of the
Turkish Governor of DaUmaCes, whose troops lmd
joined in the plunder and murder of the Christians.
With respect to the conduct of the French troops, lie
was sorry to say that all hia reports from Syria cooncurred in representing the Marmites, under the Protec-
tion of the French force in the Lebanon. took occasion
to wreak their vengeance on tilote whom they considered
to be their enemies, and that old men, women, marl
children 100 l been murdered by them eithout being
brought to justice. Al the conference upon this subject
the French Minister had ttated that if the troop, went
away the insasacres would be renewed, while the Turkish
Ambassador b. hewed that tranquility hol been restored,
and that there was no reason why the occupation should
not terminate at the period originally fixed. But the
Austrian atubsunador th..m.ht fiirther time should be
allove.l, and that it was desirable that the French should
be allowed, sod that it wits detonable that the French
troops should remain till the hut May. The Turkish
ambassador referred the question to his Government,
and there the matter rested ; but he (Lord John)
should use hit teat endeavours to put an end to the
occupation.

MAYA!. FORCRI OP THR COUNTRY.

Sir J. Elphinstime moved as an amendment to the
isiotion before the House, a aeries of 11 resolutions on
the subject of nav•l administration, pronosing to abolish
the Boar! of Admiralty and to edentate a Minister of
Marine.

of. he was bound to ask the public to suspend their
judgment.
Sir F. Baring explained the ayetein under which tb•
hobbits' wail coniducted at the Board of Admiralty. the
Firat Lord having the pneral direction, li, reepuani•
bility resting with him. Fault., lie observed, wars
imputed to the Board of Admiralty in matron with
which they had nothing to du.
Mr. Henley coil agrimd that what was wanted was
the system which gave most responeibility and real
efficiency. The statements brought forward against the
Admiralty all atopped abort of proving that the present
system wiu the rouse of the alleged evils.
Mr. Ciitininghain called atteni ion to the very unsaMs-
tory relations of the bends of the great departments to
the house of COM MODS.
. . . . . . . .

-
Sir C. Wood did not anticipate that the Committee
would find, any more than the Government, that any
great change was necessary in the constitution of Um
Huard of Admiralty.
Mr. Disraeli was glad that this committee wet to bia
appointed, hut he did not apprehend that the result
WOOL I be any great alteration in the tioanl of Admi-
ralty. He should he sarry if they recminnended the
head of the Board 'Mould be • used °Mc r the neat
step would be to take the chief of that great depart-
ment out of the Homo.

Admiral Dutirminbe and Mr. Kinnard haying mad. a
few obatnrations, the 'notion was agree.l to.
A return was woad for by Mr. Whit, of persona
rearivinig salaries, iwnei.in4.and grants, of public mown%
and ordered, after soma objections by the Chancellor of
the Exclie,,tier.
The Law of Fereizit Countries Bill was read • third
tilfl an I .04.41.

Mr. Linduy, in calling attention to the expenditure
upon the navy, argued that we had not received value
for the large sums voted, mid this excess of ex peuditure
he connected with the present eonstitution of oar naval
administration. He related • conversation he had had
with the Minister of Marine at Paris, whence and from
authentic statements he inferred that the naval power
of France had been very much exaggerated in this
country. In liairofhattle ship, and in frigates our navy
was vastly superior to that of Franc.; and as to iron-
cased vessels, if he SIMI on hoard the Warrior, he said
lie would not be afraid to meet two such reseed/ as the
Glean, the only French iron-cased vessel afloat. He
ridiculed the alarm as to the dangerous designs enter
tained by the French Government upon England, and
treated the idea of invasion as en i lie dream. His con-
clusion was that noise great change in our naval ad.
ministration was necessary; that the House had ad.
delimit evidence to deal with the question, so that it
would be inexpedient to refer it to a Committee, end
that the resolution proposed by Sir J. Elphinetune went
in the right direction.
' Sir J. Pakington thought the House would be better
able to discuss theme complicated matters after they had
heard the views of the Government WI to the policy
that should be adopted. He agreed that, taking the
resolutions propeeed by Sir J. Elphipatone ari • whole,
they went in the right direction. He wished that the
Government should undertake the inquiry into this
subject • but, if they declined, he should prefer •
Itoyal dommission to • select committee.
Lord C. Paget said, as this debate anticipated the
discussion of the Navy Estimates, he should confine
himself to some leading point.. The resolutions, ea
embodying the views of the mover, were extremely
valuable, though he could not say be agreed with the
whole of them. With reference to the statements of
Mr. Lindsay atm to the strength of the French navy, he
pointed out their defects. As to any alarm, he observed
that we had nothing to be alarmed at ' • but, considering
that the French hut 15 iron-sassed ships, some of them
most formidable, and in • forward state, we were
celled upon to make progress and keep pace with them
in this description of vessels.
Mr. Itentinck called the attention of Lord C. Paget to
various points in relation to naval matters.
Sir C. Wood gave an explanation respecting the
respinaibility for the gunboats which had been the
subject of inquiry last year, in answer to • remark by
Mr. Bentinck.
After some oheetvations by Mr. W. Talbot and Sir
H. Seymour,
Sir M. Peto considered that the time had come for
discontinuing the construction of wooden ships
altogether, and devoting our attention to iron-cared
vessels. Every shilling expended upon wooden ships
was money wasted. Iron ships, though. the outlay was
greater at flrat, were cheaper in the end.
The discussion, which was continued by Admiral
Waloot, .‘disairal Duncoinbe, and Mr. Whitbread, was
terminated by the withdrawal ot the amondnierat, and
the House went into comiamitke, when time Chairman
was ordered to report progress.
Several Bills were forwarded a stage; leave was given
to bring in certain Sills, and the House adjourned at
ball-past 12 o'clock.

FRIDAY.
COLLIERY ACCIDIVITI.

On the inotioli for adjournment till Monday,
Mr. Dillwyn oltu,i attention to the frequent recur-
rence and iumgnitMle of colliery aocidente, and to the
importance of the nitwit pereons being on all ocomiuna
select,d am colliery inspectors.
Sir 0, Lewis. in reply to Mr. Dillwyn, explained the
circumstances attending the appointment of Mr. Baker,
woos' came had given rise to the rumours of alleged
favouriti.m.

In ant wering. • question put by Mr. Lomeli respect-
ing Syrian affairs,
Lord J. Russell supplemented the reply be had made
to Mr. 3. Fitzgerald on Thursday as to the condition of
the Christiana in the Turkish empire.
The inotsou for adjournment having been agreed to,

buiRD or ADMIKALiT.

Admiral Dunnomhe moved for a Select Committee to
inquire into the constitution df the BMW of Admiralty,
and the various duties devolving thereon; 'Loss to the
general effect of such system on the navy. His desire
was to !see whether a committee oould not devise a
scheme that would alter or modify the spasm under
which the naval afr,irs of the country were condect,d,
and to have a fearless and iinpartdal inquiry into the
whole aystem.
Admiral Walcott supported the motion.
Lord C. Paget, speaking in the name of the Duke of
Sourirset, said that, so far from objecting to the motion,
he would give every farility in his power to the inqui•
ries of the Committee. He did not say that the naval
adminiatration was perfect; but the Governmaut had
introduced, wad were intra.tesdng improvennuts, and
II)I•A NW Adoejaly TIM iali*