The Daily Times.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1860-06-06 00:00:00

TOWN'S MEETING-
YESTE'•RDAY.

PROPOSED - CORPORATE OFFICES IN
DALE - STREET, AN'D SCHEME OF
PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTT• .

In compliance with a requisition- very numerously
signed, the mayor, yesterday, called a public meeting
of the burgesses and ratepayers, at the- ,Sessioa.s-house,
for the purpose of adopting such proceedings relative to
the proposed Corporate-offices in Dale-street, and to the
scheme of Public Improvement in the borough, as to
such meeting would appear fit. There was to good, but
not very crowded attendance. T. D. Anderson, Esq.,
the mayor, presided, and amongst the gentlemen present
We observed Aldermen Dover, Bennett, Gardner, And
• Turner; Councillors Aspinall, Nieksan, Mosley, Belons
Livingston, Kitchen, Steains, Shell, Robertson, Wood-
• ruff, Clint, and W. Earle. (Mr. Jeffery, it is understood,
was absent from severe indisposition.) Messrs._ John
Bigham, Joseph Boult, Denton, Shepherd, S. B. Jackson,
Chesney, Brown, James Thompsern- Charles Willmer,
McClellan, Yates, Bairstow, Britten, Wadham, Haylock,
Greenwood, Urquhart, &c., &c.
The Ton-N-ceeng read the requisition convening the
meeting, which had appended to it 880 signatures.
The Maroa then rose and said that, in compliance
With the requisition that they had just heard read, and
• Which was very numerously and respectably signed, he
had called the meeting. In deference to the wishes of
many parties the Council had postponed their decision
Upon the proposed corporate offices, until the ratepayers
should have had an opportunity of expressing their
opinions on the subject, which he hoped the public
Would fully appreciate. The gentlemen who had sent
the requisition, he believed, were desirous of stating
their opinion upon two subjects, both of them of very
considerable importance to the interests of the inhabi-
tants generally of the town. The one was that with
regard to the centralisation of all the corporate offices,
and the other was that of a scheme of town improve-
ments. He believed that the gentlemen who had
asked him to summon the meeting were prepared
With resolutions upon those different heads, and, in order
to enable the gentlemen present to conduct the discus-
,,sion with regularity and order, he would suggest that
the speakers keep these heads distinctly in view, and
'confine their remarks to the one under discussion. It
`Was his wish, and would be his endeavour, to give every
.gentleman who wished to speak a fair hearing. He
hoped the meeting would support him in doing so ; and
that the different speakers would not be interrupted.
The Mayor then called on
Mr. Mattel( to move the first resolution. In doing
In, he said that when first asked to take a part in the
Itoceedings, he felt some difficulty in doing so,
seeing that he had retired for the last five
er six years from public life. He had, however,
Consented to do so ; and he was convinced that
'the speakers would be able to lay a case before the
ratepayers, which would warrant the requisition which
!as sent to the Mayor. The Mayor had said that the
Public would appreciate the kindness of the Council.
clo, no.) He had heard the word " appreciate " fall
From the Mayor, and he really thought they ought to
.appreciate the conduct of the Council very highly, after
the remarks which had been made by some members of
the Council in regard to the present meeting. One
lueuxber, who had obtained a spurious popularity, and
sonmei a position of dictator to the whole Council, and
Nit& fain arrogate to himself the dictatorship of the whole
town,—had csarged the promoters of the present move-
tEient•with being "ignorant" . Another gentleman whose
ilutecedents world certainly have ledone to think differeut
**him, had said-that he was " tired hearing of it." But
Whether this was the case or not, the promoters consider
?hey ought to expret that the opinions expressed at that
• meeting would be istened to. It was a common saying
!list the stnestn was not one of to-day, and it was true
that the question had. been before the public for the last
4, re or six years, but is had only lately assumed its pre-
le, lit shape. It was true that the Council had consented
St' one time to spend some few thousand pounds—
the subject was discussed at their meetings ad Nauseam
----.l3nt the amount had gone on increasing until the
Zimate for land alone now readied £141,000.
lPere the ratepayers to be blamed, or to be
"caged with inconsistency, Incense the Council had,
'fortunately, not been able to sell a certain portion
1; land which unfortunately they bad purchased ?
ere they to be blamed because the estimates for this
-traprovement" had increased froir, about L 21,000 to
4411dredS of thousands? He would wish to call the
attention of the meeting particularly to the case
.411 it stood. Government had positively refused to
bike a portion 'of the reeently acquired lands of the
t?Wil, and etneequenor it was Left in their hands. The
Lf4 ees in Cornwallis-siCet Were to be removed, and it
likelythat the whole establishment would be removed
4130. Now, that involved the erection of other Wild-
'
;13gs for the business of the town, and also an official
tesidence for the Mayor for the time being, and that was
S4rafitted to involve a continually increasing expense.
'pinions were divided as to how the improvements were
be carried out—some wanting one thing and others
telnething else. Now, would it not be well for the pro-
tketers to know what they wanted themselves before
:tar. ging. any of the ratepayers with ignorance. (Hear,
„ear.) The position of matters was simply this, that
`4l'Mesre called upon to abandon their offices in Corn-
'is-street and go to Dale-street, and that without
mi
clete •
. ned course of action on the part of the corn-
141ttee themselves. This committee, by a simple majority
,0
•one had brought up a report recommending the
erection of new offices, and he was 'surprised to find a.
ttfutleman like Mr. Jeffery advocating the expenditure
jlarge sum of money for any such purpose. The
elincil would not consent, however, to adopt the recom-
• Ittesliaticar until the present meeting was held. Now, the
fact Was that, at the present time, the town was losing
t;,2,000tt a year or £l,OOO a month. How had this
ptea ? He would say that it arose from the incoms
iitncy of the Council in the first place, a mis-calcu-
inlon the second place, and wild promises in the
third place. He could point-to instances in which the
713 oration had acquired property, such as at the bottom
: Shaw's-brow—the buildings were taken down,
in the case he had mentioned, the ground had
Grained vacant for ten or fifteen years, and, of course,
rent was being received. Could the ratepayers
be blamed in any way for this ? Then, with respect to
‘‘‘it Wild expectations, some members of Council had
dem_- • .
red that ay cL:erving out the improvements indicated
sea
• would save about Z6,661:1 Per annum in salaries;
and
the Town-Clerk was absolutely hold enough to
rind • that statement, and to say that he cO!ild save
s1)000 a year ie his own department. Well, perhaps
lownsurerre worms corsasesee ss, ssaass.., Las
(1,-ftterY• (Hear, hear, and laughter.) If he did so, he
Bigham) would then certainly give hiss ,credt for
1/11;11cerity in making that statement. (Renewed laughter.)
e Was not one whoasaid that the Town-Clerk was
„ many
but there was no disguising the fact that
'ally in. the iDICII. thought so. (Hear, hear.) Where
!at/ this saving of £4,000 to be effected ? He
:041d ask Mr. Jeffery or the entire Town Connell
Petits finger upon any committee that could accom-
plish the saving mentioned. As to the expense of this
skiprovement, he would refer them to the authority of
-Afr. Picion—a gentleman whose judgment could not
13e 'impeached. Mr. Pict= bad made a valuation, and
said that if once this scheme was commenced it would
volt the town between £400,000 a 400,900 before it was
trashed, and in the end something like a million would,
to all probability, be spent. (Hear, hear.) He objected
the public being taxed with an annual rate. The
e4mlncil had been multiplying pennies and half-pennies
4Pon them, that the taxation seemed to be going on
Uleressenig ad infinitum, until the ratepayers were out of
their common senses, as Mr. Jeffery said they already
*ete• (Laughter.) Mr. Bigham then condemned the
Prit'etice of lending out the money of the town
at *a
certain rate of interest, and at the same
71 e proposing to burden the town with additional taxa-
;:ett• He maintained that the present was not the time
imposing an additional tax on them. If they wanted
1 borough,
accommodation for transacting the, business of the
let them turn the Town-hell to some account.
1101:ear, hear.) Let it be altered so as to give ample room
all the officials connected with- the establishment. He
Irckld not disturb the Mayor ; and though some were
averse to granting him £2,000 for expenses connected
tith his office, he would not deprive him of it. The
'`‘ayor could also could still have an official chamber,
Ilea a room in which to receive his friends. As for the
1!ealleil, they could easily and a chamber in St. George's-
a$--the ball-room, for instance, would answer the
Appose very well. These alterations would answer all
~.,the Purposes required, and they could be executed ate very
Ong expense. He urged that this was not the time for
eeUlraencing so large an outlay, as not only were the funds
of 'the town in an unsatisfactory ante, WI calls were
111ing upon them which must he met. They should also
consider that the iliCWaie of business might cempel
them to build and make considerable alterations in the
sheet su9.ning parallel with the docks. It might also
e necessary tg improve Park-lane, and the street run-
frOmCwest to east up to the north end of the town.
it his would require to bp done by some one, and he
lelieved that it would fall upon the ratepayers. Refe-
rence had been made in the CoUncil to the manner in
Ithich Edinburgh was beautified by the expenditure of
a large sum of money; but he would remind them that
'Oat city had almost, at one period, become bankrupt,
from the burdens under whieh it laboured. The addi-
tional tax had been advocated by Mr. Earle and other
members of the council ; but he did not think Mr.
ssai de would have done so if he had sat and heard the
sPneals from poor people for the reduction of the rates.
The rates were not paid by Mr. Earle, Mr. Jeffery, or
ibme Wealthy merchant, but by those who could ill afford
:eel. (Hear, hear.) He did not want to impute
`motives, but he could not help noticing the fact that
:cluse• of the most zealous advocates of the measure
is/elled-property in localities which would be affected.
ge protested against any such reckless and extravagant
expenditure
of the public money. The ratepayers might
ignorant, but they could well understand that if

this project was entered upon it would result in another
St. George's-hall—(hear, hear)—or another improve-
ment on the water supply—(hear, hear) ;—for once let
the Council get their hands in the pockets of the inhabi-
tants, and there was no,saying where it might end. He
could not think- that Mr. Jeffery would so far forget his
antecedents as to continue his advocacy of this move-
ment, and especially he -could not overlook the
sentiments of a meeting such as that now assembled.
He considered, also, that the resultef the meeting would
have great weight with the Council ; it was no political
meeting, or composed of one party, but represented all
classes. He would also suggest that it would be scarcely
fair for any members of Council present to enter into
any discussion which might arise. If they did so the
public might claim the right of entering into debate
with them in their own chamber. Mr. Bighara con-
cluded by moving the following resolution :—" That, in
the opinion of this meeting, the cost of all • buildings
which are erected for municipal pu.vposes, and therefore
p..ortiotis of the corporate estate, should- be defrayed out
the principal of that estate; if it should be clearly
proved to the 'own Council, by detailed and accurate
estimates of the probable reduction in annual expen-
diture, that it is desirable and expedient to erect new
public offices, all the costs of that erection should there-
fore be met by the proteeds of the sale of other portions
of the corporate estate. At-the same time, this meeting
desires to record its deliberate opinion that it is very
undesirable there should be either two Town-hall estab-
lishments or an-official residence for the Mayor."
Mr. F. J. RiEBORD seconded the -motion. He was
one of the largest rate-payers in Liverpool, and ques-
tions of this sort were of great import to the class to
which he belonged. Gentlemen who paid sums, large
or small, for their offices, could not iodge the question
like those who had to pay upon the rental. Mr. Big-
ham had fairly shown, he thought, that the Town-hall
could be so used as to obviate the necessity for increased
buildings, and St. Georie's-hall was suitable for the
hospitalities of the town. lie did not know but that
our local parliament, which was coping with a larger
legislative body, might not go on to such an extent but
that we should be, having an official residence for the
town-clerk and the borough engineer ; and the fine pile
might be galled Parliament-street. (Laughter.) He could
not see his way to any saving of expenditure by the proposed
arrangement, and he hoped that it was not to be effected
by reducing the salaries of already under-paid officials.
He blushed when he read the list lately pi_blished, and
certainly felt ashamed to find that gentlemen of their
attainments, and who had to discharge the Aides which
they were required to do, were many of them paid little
better than porters on the dock quays. Therefore,
though a friend of economy, for God's sake don't let
them begin at that end. Mr. Bigham had exhausted
the subject. With the liabilities which they had to
meet, it would be rashness to enter upon such a heavy
expenditure; and lie hoped that everything svonld be
economised that could be without meanness.
Alderman DOVER said, if it was the opinion of the
meeting that the town councillors should not take a
part in the discussion, they would be excused voting one
way or the other: If they were not expected to open
their mouths, it should be understood that they were
not to be accountable for any decision. -
A GENTLEMAN thought it could not be the wish of
the meeting that the town councillors' mouths should
be shut. -
Mr. Tuotsorr—Mr. ,Bigham cannot dictate to this
meeting ; certainly not.. ,
Mr. Btouam---It was not his intention.
Mr. BRARELL said his feeling was adverse to the
views of Mr. Bigham; and he thought they should
court the opinions of thosein our local parliament, of
whom he saw several present. Ife should certainly like
to hear Mr. Earle, as a gentleman who had taken great
interest in town improvementi. (Applause.)
Mr. Eantn should be glad- to say something when
the time came. He was not afraid of the requisitionists
on a November day. He had shown that clearly before.
The MAYOR said it seemed to be the opinion of the
meeting that gentlemen of the Council might take part
in the discussion if they wished to do so. (Applause.)
Mr. WILLIAM BROWN, a gentleman who used to
take a prominent part in the annual Vestry meetings,
said although he signed the requisition it was not with
the intention of frustrating any of the proceedings of the
Council, but rather to give an opportunity to the ratepayers
to speak upon the minor point, with regard .to eaaries,
The requisition was framed with a double.purpose. If it
had been simply to negative the erectiOn of the new
public offices, or the proposed improvements, be should
not have signed it. He had been a resident of Liver,
pool five-and-twenty years, and during -that '4ine had
heard the inhabitants blaming the Council for not being
more active in improving the town ; but it seemed to
him to be impossible for them to select the right time :
it was either too soon or too late—(heig, hear);—and
whilst he agreed with the resolution, as to the mode et
raising the means, be would rather give his vote in
favour of any plan of improvement which would give
them value for their money. (Hear, and applause.)
There was no doubt that this town way behind
every other town in the kingdom, as regarded its
approaches. His suspicion was rather aroused at
the preliminary meeting in respect to the requi-
sition. The moment almost he was in the room,
an impression was made upon his mind that it was not
altogether gust what it seemed. He • was struck with
the fact that .a large proportion of the promoters of the
movement hold property in the immediate neighbour-
hood of the Haymarket. They had been looking at the
Free Library, and were afraid that was the beginning
of a high level bridge, which would be injurious to their
interests. He did not agree with them, With regard
to salaries, he thought we paid in the higher class of
salaries more than we ought. A number of the officials
of this borough were thus placed in as good a position
as those who had to risk £lO,OOO or £20,000 of capital
in business, and !night probably lose it all, where the
officials had nothing to risk, but simply give their
services to the public ; and he thought if illoy4 OfPrence
were paid to the great bulk of the ratepayers, and a
little more .censideration shown-to the taxation of their
pockets, we should come to a nearer balance between
the position of those who paid and these who received
the money. At the same time, he would uot be mean
or stingy in paying a man for his services.
Mr. BaIRSTOW observed, with regard to the remarks
just made by Mr. Brown, he might say that, feeling a
great interest in the matter of public improvements,
and living in the neighbourhood Mr. 4rown had speci-
fied,

better.

The liAyoh asked Mr. Bairstow if he could Rost
reserve his remarks till the second resolution.
Mr. Bainnow merely *ished to remark that the
movement did not originate in that locality.

Tu... M • •-•••— T.% -- - •••••• I, nfil ni• tonnl.lnrnnn IT; AI 4.n
speak on the first resolution ?

Alderman DOVER did not rise to oppose the motion,
but merely to make a remark or two, that the public
might be in lassession of the facts of the case in regard
to the proposed 'public offices, f t originated ,in this.
The Cornwallis-street Offfoes were totally inade-
quate to the business to. be performed there7tot4lY.
inadequate ; and either they must lay out 'several
tbousand pounds upon that building, or they must
adopt the aiternatiye of removing the public offices
to ;ome other 3uarter. ?h.O Council having deli=
berated upon the point, resolYed not to spend, any blather
Means upon Cornwallis-street, but as they had at
that time a large plot of land in hand upon which
Hengler•'s Circus u:Ff stapds, by the advice of the
Health Committee, the Council consented to 411pvy
such of the officers as were stationed in pgp.w4llip7
street, to be tritusferred to a building to be erected upon
that spot. Well, 44 idea, was started—naind, not by
the Council, but by the Chamber of Commerce, which
was supposed to represent the feelings of the commercial
classes of Liverpool—of having a Post-office more
central than the present one, and with greater accom-
modation than it affords; and this was a view which
gentlemen should take in a growing place like Liver.:
pool, that what was
,#t and preper thia year might not
be fit and proper neat year, with our increasing popu-
lation and increasing business. Well, the commercial
classes finind the post-office totally inadequate to the pur-
pose for which it was Ogivally intended, and the idea was
started that it should be removed to 'pale-street. That
caused the Health Committee and the Council to take a
different view of the subject altogether. They said, if
that is the ease, the land on which the Saracen's
Head stood, will not be sufficient. They should
reqiiire more laud ; and it was thought by combin-
ing the two together, namely, the public-offices and
the post-office, they were justified in acquiring other
portions of land in that locality. Well, that was
done. They could not help the Government breaking
faith; but he said deliberately, that if any commercial
gentleman had gone so far into a treaty as the Govern-
ment did, he should bold himself 'bound in honour to
carry the bargain through. The Goyernment declining,
and as they had so much more land on their hands,
they thought they should still more centralise the public
business, 444 thereby ecnnotniss th enenditnre, by
concentrating the whole of the public Ofhces on one
spot. Mr. Bigham had just put into his (Alderman
Dover's) mouth words which he never used. He went
as far,----he went farther, he believed, than any gentle-
man in that meeting. He would not only do away
with the Town-hall, so far as the business of the Town-
clerk and the Mayor's office was concerned, but he
would Sell the whole of that building, and let it be
.•
converted for commercial purposes. (" Hear," and loud
cries of "No, no.") He was going to say that he was
before his time,—that the public were not prepared for it.
(A Voice: "Certainly not.") But he wanted to show that
in point of economy he went further than Mr. Bigham,
because he was for selling the whole of the old Tdwn-hall.
This was the basis of his calculation. If such land was
worth £5O or £lOO, and land could be bought for their
purpose at £3 a yard, it would be a good exchange ;
but from the echo of the meeting, the town was not
prepared for such a sweeping reform as that ; therefore
he should be sorry to obtrude his opinion upon either
the Council or the public. Then, if they would not
give up the Town-hall altogether, they must apply it
to such purposes as it afforded convenience for, New,

it was totally impossible to conduct the public business in
Cornwallis-street, arid it. was thought by the Council
that if they could hive the whole of thepublicoffices on one
spot, they should save, by centralising, several salaries. A
very great inconvenience also arose from officers having to
pass back and forward between the Town-hall and Corn-
iiiillis-street. He did not go to the extent'of believing
that by concentration they could effect a saving of £6,000
a year; but it was quite evident to all acquainted with the
practical working of the business of the Corporation that a
very great saving would be effected, not only in the number
of Clerks, but in loss of time occasioned by transit from
one office to another: But there was another thing. As
Mr: Bigham had challenged the inquiry, he must out
with it.. They had documents and muniments in that
Town-hall which were not safe, if such a calamity hap-
-pelted as once before did, and for them they wanted a
place erected and prepared. (A Voice—" Get a
Milnees _ safe," and. laughter.) But if that meet-
. ing. represented
,the feeling of the town, and if
they, should say at once, you must take only a certain
portion of the offices away from the Town-hall, the
othersinist.reinain, he forrine should how to the decision.
The interests of the ratepayers'and of the Council were
identified; and he thought the meeting should feel safe
in leaving the subject in. their hands. He was sm.,
Prised to hear Mr. Bigham speak of the Council cham-
ber as he bad done. He thought they were perfectly
nuaniinous,---he., tad never heard a dissenting opinion
that the council chambet. was unadapted for meetings
of the Ceiincil. There was seare.gy a day in which
those who stayed 41.940g:int fo do their duty there did
not leave worse than when they enro in for his part,
he always snffered for a day or two afterwarda. The
chamber was not intended for a meeting of silty-four
gentlemen, besides the reporters and other officers ; it
was originally intended for only forty-one gentlemen. It
was not for him' to say -whether the forty-one gentlemen
were wiser than they—(a laugh)—they certainly did
not sit so long, or make so many speeches. It
was neither safc.cientiy large nor ventilated for the num-
ber who attended ; arid if it were the feeling of the
town that the Council chamber should remain where it
is, they must not be surprised if they went to the expense
of niahing it as fit as it ought to be. He was rejoiced
at these rsteetings,---he was glad to know what the
feeling of his feliow7tewnsmen might be ; but he would
warn. gentlemen that there 'night be such a thing
as false economy. A might ae xiiey 4ig4t thwart
the transfer of the offices from Cornwallis-street-that the
Council might be forced to sell that land; and, if so,
they might find some ten years after, when perhaps
they wanted it, that they could not get that land for £7
or £8 a square yard, 'but •would have to pay £l2 or
£2O fatt.. N-r. Dover then proceeded to argue, amidst
cries of " Oh, Op" that as to whether the expense
came out of the ratepayers' p9oketa as a rate, or
out of the corporate estate, it was the saw thing,
because the Council could only appropriate their surplus
income to the redaction of the rates. (Mr. Bigham :
" Nonsense ;" and cries of "Time.") He did not know
that he bed any more to say---(A Voice : " That will
do")--and should not have thought proper to rise if his
name had not been mentioned by Mr. Bigham.
Alderman Tunisnis wished to correct- the rnisvpre-
hension of Alderman Dover that the. Council-phaniber
was originally adapted for forty-one persons only. It
was not erected as a Council-chamber, and under the old
Corporation it was the court where the Mayor sat to heer
police cases. The old Corincil-chamber was the Mayor's
room-et present, and the ante-room adjoining.
Mr. Conncillor H. 0. pEpoE, who was received with
applause, said he thoaght he had very inu.eh 94qtaken
the feeling of that meeting, if he did not andersfAnd
from it that it was perfectly it could be
prwrecl necessary on the orie hand, and economical on
the other-,-thet Mil, offices should be concentrated and
built, for the purpose of conducting the pilhlie business
of the town ; but he was delighted with the phreseologf
of the resolution, because it blended with that principle
the most vital doctrine which could be spoken of
to the burgesses of Liverpool—that was, that if
they wanted to build public corporate buildings, they
mist he built and_ paid for out of the corporate
estate. (Applause.) That resolntien toughed everything
he thought, which a ratepayer' on the one hand, or a
trustee for the public on the other, could require. It
said, " If it can be proved it is desirable and expedient
to erect
.new public offices, the cost of erection, includ-
ing land, should be met by the sale_ef some other portion
of 'the'. -corporate property?? 'LoOk at the building in
they ;
which stood. u thcl,pit.of Deiembet that build-
ing would be tenantless and re..rigels;.,:-The yaiw, of that
building -would more than erect the new pudic offices
which we want ; and Vi7a" to be
building is to be sold for so much cash, lent out at four
per cent., and yon are to be taxed for the erection o:
public buildings.?" (Hear; and applause.) The gentle
man, whoever framed that. resolution, had earefull,
thoughtfully considered the true interests, not only o.
the corporate estate, but of the burgesses of Liverpool;

- -
therefore he should support it. (Loud applause.)
Mr. BIOHA claimed a right to reply. lie was not
going to occupy many minutes, ut vished to point oup
the fallacies of Mr. Dover. He had said that the
Cornwallis-street ot4ces were totally inadequate ; but
there was plenty of space therefor extensioa. (]rear, hear,)
Mr. Dover had said that he rejoiced at that meeting.
Why, who dared say, in a great meeting like that, that
the ratepayers had not a right to meet, and that he was
glad to see them ? Yet Mr. Dover had voted, within
the last month, against that meeting !
Alderman DOVER—That I beg leave to deny most
distinctly.

Mr. BioaFA4—Was there not a question put to the
Council that all discussionup4 this. subject shquld be
postponed till this meeting was held, and does uOt Mr.
Dover's name appear in the division

Alderman DOVER explained. A motion was made by
Mr. Jeffery, the.chairman of the committee for removing
the Public Offices. He was a member of that com-
mittee, and Mr. Bigham knew perfectly well the
etiquette was that unless a member bad divided a sub-
committee, he was not at liberty to 49 otherwise in the
Council thau vote for the confirmation,

Mr. BIGHAM—Then the sooner you alter it, the

Alderman DOVER further explained that both he and
Mr. Jeffery would have concurred in Mr. Avison's
amendment if he would have conseuted to alter it. •

Mr. BrguAm added, that the whole question had
been put in a few words by Mr. Beloe. Jf it could be
proved that the removal of the offices was essential, 'they
were willing ; but they went further, and said, you
shall xiot 'to us while ygu have property that eati'bg
applied.mly lopßpla.zne4
The
put the motion, which was carried
unanimously—a result bailed with cheers.

said :—Allow me to express my surprise at Mr. Brown's
remarks. I am sorry that he has put his name to a
document without understanding better what he was
doing ; and I certainly may say with confidence that nei-
ther the mover no the seconder of the 41.4 resolution,
any more than myself, can be implicated in any sinister,
motives n taking the part'we do here to-day. If it be.
true that large bodies move slowly, it is no less true that
if their. progress be accelerated, by the application of
some adequate force inadequately controlled, a momen-
tum is acCinired Which may terminate in m4chicf. The
burgesses of Pverpeol area 4rge body; 0.29 y. (3,99ec1p
large powers to their representatives in the COun.cil ;
they cheerfully place at its dispoSal a' large revenue of-
rents and rates for the public service, and nothing will
move them to mnrinnr? or to combined'oppositiou, Intt
the application of those revenues to such ¶ilcl scbumes
as the hike, the Rouleyards, IPA the 'imposed public,
offices, When they de speak, therefore, they do net
speak rashly ; they speak as considerate, reflecting men,
and in one way or other, in June or in November,
they will make themselves heard. (Hear, hear.) But
the figures with which I set out may illustrate the-
progress of sanitary and town improvenlents under the
corporation of Liverpool for the last 30 years. At
the beginning of that period, and when the resources of
the corporation were far in excess of what they have
been since the withdrawment of the town dues, the
movements of our local authorities in the direction of
such improvements were e*entely stow. The money
went, hOwever, somewhere—mainly, no doubt, in im-
proving the port, and wording faCilities for its rising
trade. A small portion went to the djminution of
rates, and the rest Inipt be fonll4 tc the debit of
snch questionable Undertakings as the filling up of
the cad Pock, the erection on Its site of that
huge dark pile the Revenue-buildings, the erection also
of churches, of a market for fish in Deane-street, after-
wards condemned and abandoned to the pedlars ; the
purchase of the Newsham-house estate ; the external
enibellishings awl
dismantling of -embellishments about St. gegrge's:
'lll.l and the cruel Pke. (Hear, hears
Meanwhile our oioWd m
ed and unarmed courts and lanes
were becoming hotbeds of diease ; and fever, cholera,
and a rate of mortality almoA unequalled in the king-
dom, were the penalty ea. the natural consequences;
By these means the attention and energy of the autho:
rities were brought to hear on the more yigorons prose-
cution of sanitary improvement. A: formidable staff of
engineers, surveyors, and inspeCtors was organised, the
engine of social science was applied, Parliamentary
powers set the train in motions the steam was well up, and
away Nye went at a tremendous rate, ripping up streets,
lanes, and courts, demolishing houses ; the rough places
were literally made plain, and the crooked things straight.
Well, all this has been good, and we have not com-
plained, though we bare suffered by. the cast. A vast
amount of abominations have been cleared away which
might huye been prevented, and a vast amount of benefit
has been realised which we might sooner have enjoyed,
and at a tithe of the cost involved, had the public
authorities bestirred themselves with energy at an earlier.
period. The burgesses at large, but especially the'shop-
keepers, have paid handsomely for the improvements; yet,
to suppose that the rates have paid for all, or nearly all,
would, I suppose, be a gross mistake and a cruel ignoring
of the sacrifices of hundreds of thousands of pounds
which the owners of property have been compelled to pay
in addition to extraordinary rates for the drainage, flag-
ging, lalteratio, recopArtlctipn, 41.1.4 gcticiegottiol 91

their property. (Hear, hear.) In 11 years from the taking
effect of the Liverpool Sanitary Act there had been con-
structed 146 miles of sewers, 100 miles of streets added,
all at least 30 feet wide; 257 streets had been entirely
paved and flagged ; a cemetery had been provided for
Toxteth Park, at an outlay of about £30,000; one near
Walton Gaol of about the same extent, and another of
86 acres for Liverpool, the outlay on which will be about
£75,000 ; and on sanitary works, water-works, baths,
parks, and the like, the Corporation had, during those
11 years, spent nearly £3,000,000 sterling. To say
nothing of the effects upon the limited means of the bur-
gesses in general, of greatly enhanced rents; and a double
income-tax, such considerations as those to which I
have adverted will constrain every prudent and hu-
mane man in the Council to forego such metropolitan
luxuries as boulevards and the proposed Public-
offices, and to postpone the consideration of new
projects until those in hand, and those for which powers
have been obtained, and are most urgently called for,
are accomplished. The Rivingtou works are far from
finished—(shame) ;—so also are the approaches to St.
George's-hall. Limekiln-lane, Shaw's-brow, Hatton-
garden, Vauxhall-road, Water-street, Paradise-street,
Church-street, Park-lane, and Berry-street have yet to
be dealt with. The contractors for the present workhouse
are still waiting on Mr. Holme, or Mr. Weightman, or
some other persons known to them, for measurements,
and their money. Mr. Gladstone also, I believe, is still
waiting for the report of the whole estate of the Corpo-
ration, and both the Chancellor and the Corporation
are forcing upon our consideration the proverbs,—
" Many littles make a mickle," and if we " take care
of the pennies the pounds will take care of themselves."
(AWanse.) He concluded by moving the following
resolution That it is extremely undesirable any
extensive scheme of public improvements, or of
other works, which involve any addition to the existing
heavy burdens on the ratepayers, should be undertaken
until the expenditure still required in connection with
the supply of water and in the vicinity of St. George's-
hall has been accurately determined and provided for ;
until those improvements which are already commenced,
or for the execution of which powers have been con-
ferred by Parliament, shall he completed; and until it
has been ascertained bow far the landed property of the
corporate estate can be made available, in conjunction
with the property of other landowners, this meeting
being of opinion that all property, which is benefited by
improvements in roads and thqroqghfares, or by the
formation of parks and boulevards, should be made con-
tributories to the cost as far as may be practicable."
Mr. JOSEPH liannlsosr seconded the motion. In
the course of a few observations ho said that •the pro-
moters of the opposition movement might be considered
frivolous and Ve4atioil3, for daring to express aa opinice
publicly with respect to the local legislature, but they
wanted those gentlemen to be a little more considerate
ICirtlilhe pockets of the bmgesse§. The shopkeepers of
Liverpool had very much to complain of. He had
taken the liberty, in company with Mr. Graves, of
calling upon Mr. Earle on the subject, and that gentle.
man said that as the inhabitants of Edinburgh sub-
mitted to a 2s. 6d. in the pound taxation, he could not
see how the people of Liverpool should object to it.
c4d T:4 4.9 sQ. T!.?yer adyocated a
tax of 2s. 6d,
Mr. HARRISON, in continuation, said he did not envy
the people of Edinburgh under the 2s. 6d. He then
referred to the water works at Rivington, which had cost,
he said, £1,707,549, and to the building erected through
the exertions of that noble spirit, William Brown.
(3pplause.) He r:id not grumble at the penny in the
pOund charged fOr education. That building had cost
the town .£19,000, but if it had cost twice that amount
they would not complain. The Corporation had never
made five miles of streets, indeed he hardly thought
they had made 5,000 yards at their own cost. The
owners of land had to make the streets, and the owners
of land had also to P 4, six shillings per yard frontage
for the sewers. He would also remind them that they
had already a debt of £393,388 upon the paving and
sewerage rates. He also pointed out the expense con-
sequent on the new police building in Dale-street, and
contended that sufficient accommodation was ag'ardael
the Town-clerk's officials in Corriwallis-*eq.
The MAYOR interrupted Mr. liarrison, Saying that he
had departed from the question.
Mr. HARRISON said they were so closely connected
that he could hardly separate them. What he wanted
to show them was, that the public should not be sub-
jected to any extraneous taxation.
11!.r. Es..nre then rose; and said that he considered it
would be rather inipor'tant for tile' iwn resolutions to
which the Town Council had come on the subject to be
read to the meeting, in order that the nature of affairs
might be exactly explained. When this was done, he
would occupy a short portion of their time.
The Mayon—ls it the pleasure of this meeting that
the resolutions should be read (Loud applause.)
Mr. EARLS—I think it is best that the meeting
should know the precise nature of them.

Alderman BENNETT called attention to a large plan
of the proposed improvements, which was hung within
the hall.
The Tony-ct,EaK then read the resolutions, both of
which have appeared seriatim in our columns.
Mr. EARLE rose at the conclusion of the reading of the
resolutions, and said that he had been instrumental in the
original formation of this Improvement Committee, and
he was induced to take the subject in hand in consequence
of numerous comments which were made iu the daily
papers hardly one of which appeared for some time thLt,
did not contain a, auggeatiou as to the improveMeiii.
These were, uo donhf,' originated by persons who were
interested in the work; but it was quite clear that the
improvements were necessary, and shoe he had had a
seat in the Council he had frequently brought the sub-
ject forward, and if it had been done many years ago
they would have saved a very large amount of money.
He would take a case in point. He had purchased
some property between Church-street and Paradise-street
many years ago, as au investment fora branch of hie
family. The late Town-elc4 v,-us passing onti cfaY; and
he (Mr. Earle) had said to him if that property was
necessary for improving 'that portion of the town, he
would willingly let the Corporation have it at what be had
paid for it. They did buy it of his hands, and it was now
returningithem sor 6 per cent, per tinnuni: They would see
that the committee haye not recommended a great nitro-
bei- of the things that' were suggested, merely on account
of the expense which would be entailed, and he could
not think that the rate which was now proposed for
improvements would be felt to be a serious burden
upon the people of Liverpool. It wrfs all very fine to
talk. of the lower orders,':! and the heavy charges they
are called upOu.'to Pay,' but he would tell Mr. Bigli&nt
that the " higher orders" have a very considerable
amount to nay, and he a uestioned very
those pct.)... hml not contributed greatly to the taxes.
Lately, he had seen in a Liverpool paper a statement
showing how very small was the aura paid even upon
£2O houses. There was no doubt that; with all classes
of the community there 'Would he some causes of hard-
ship. But let them 414 at the present state of the town.
It was impossible that it could continue in that state
for a much longer period, Perhaps it would be no
impediment to allow the interior of
,the old town to lie
as it is for a short time, but if they delt.y.E.d improving
the districts of the towrl, in all probability the ground
which they. wanted to acquire would be built upon.
Even the line of boulevards referred to had Some build-
ings upon it. He was reminded that some years age,
certain of the inhabitants advocated betote.i.he improve-
ment committee, of which MEr. Belot and himself had
been 174mithem mast of the improvements now suggested.
The inhabitants a Liverpool had done so, and why did
they now object to it.

Mr. BrouAm—We do not object to the improvements.
Sell the Newsham-house estate and we will agree, You
gave £150,000 for it.

Mr. EARLE-1 cln; not obliged to take what you say
for go,spel, "(Laughter.) Ho would remind them, how-
ever, that one of the improvements he was now advo-
cating would improve the Newsham-house estate ; it
would make a road to it. The Earl of Derby and the
Earl of Sefton were making fine roads, but only for
themselves, so as to be improvements on their large
estates. In carrying out the present proposed improve-
ment, however, they would have to go through the
lands of different proprietors, some of them owning only
a single field. It could not therefore be expected that
they would make roads in the same way as the
Earls of Derby and Sefton; and it was quite
evident that the longer they delayed making the im-
provements, they would have to pay the more. He
contended also that it would not be a hardship upon
Liverpool to pay a small rate. [Here a gent;inan in
the hall gave a token of disapproval.]. They might
shake thc.ir liE.aci,s, but he believed it to be a fact, and of
course they could not gain imprOvements without pay-
ing for them. When on the continent lately he had
received a paper, in which be saw that his friend Mr.
Stewart had pronounced it to be a "theoretical project."
Did he aAegrk to, call the widening' of the streets "thee-:
retical ?"
Mr. ; but the boniev.wis are. (A laugh.)
Mr. EARLE-4 beg your pardon ; nothing is said
about the boulevards at all. Mr. Stewart had also said
that "he regretted the Corporation had become a rating
body at all." He (Mr. Stewart) therefore said, " you are
not to take any of the corporate property," Arid yet, he
objected to laying a rate. What did lie Mean ?
Mr. Brouitm-11e des not wani.YoU to spend money
at all.

Mr. EARl.—That. is very. possible, Igo iciloNtra what
the value of money is very well,
(Laughter.) Then
Mr. Stewart 404 again tbg "14 turtst raise his voice
against making roads fo the benefit of the proprietary
of the laud. He thought that the landowners generally
ought to join with the public in doing anything in the
way of improvement." But they could not call upon a,
person who had only one or two fields to ro to si,xpence
in making roads. They talked about eixpeuceL-look at
the Highway Board that si.-cut £lOO,-000, where what
they did was ric,t worth 100. pence.
Alderman DOVER—Mr. Earle, you were a member of
that board. (Laughter.)
Mr. EARLE—He had always dmouiiced it as an
abominable board. (eUevt:ed lauglifer.) He did not
care about saying any Pad about the dead, but when he
mentioned that thgt Ward was presided over by Mr, Johr

Home, they could easily underitand the character of the
board generally. (Signs of disapprobation.) Why, at
his own house a sewer was made only eight feet deep,
and he was obliged to sink a cess-pool directly under
his dining-room windows. (Laughter.) But when the
present engineer came to manage matters—and he con-
sidered that the engineer and the committee were now
entitled to the thanks of the community—he made a
sewer twenty-eight feet deep, and the consequence was
that the cess-pool was removed. He would not detain
them much longer, else they might begin to think that
other than corporate bodies were slow. He would
therefore leave the matter in their hands, hoping that the
burgesses would exercise a wise discretion in allowing the
project to go on. The improvement was necessary for many
reasons, among others for raising the poorer classes from
those abominable holes in which too many of them
resided. Mr. Earle resumed his seat amid applause.
Alderman BENNETT said he was exceedingly glad to
see so large an attendance of his fellow-townsmen,
which convinced him of the deep interest that was taken
in a subject of so much importance. He regretted the
distinction which Mr. Bigham had drawn between the
members of the Town Council and the people of Liver-
pool—the "we "of the people and the " they" of the
Town Council, as if there was a wall or partition
between the two. For himself he wished, to be
considered one of the "we," and he believed that
every member of the Council was actuated by the
lama feeling. (Hear, hear.) When they considered
also that few occasions occurred on which the people
met to discuss the proceedings of the Town Council, it
proved that on the whole they were satisfied with their
representatives. (Hear, hear, and Oh, oh.) He had
taken a great interest in town improvements. He was:
happy to hear Mr. Jackson and others, who had followed
in the same track, as they had clearly pointed out that
some improvement was required. Alderman Bennett
then entered at some length on the improvement that had
been made in Liverpool since the year 1769, directing at
the same time the attention of the audience to a plan of
the town made in that year. At that time Oldhall-street
was an alley, Castle-street very narrow, Brunswick-
street did not exist. Fenwick-street was constructed,
improvements were made about Derby-square, and D,ale-
street was widened. Now, when these improvements
were carried'out at that time, surely they should not be
deterred at the present time from going to Parliament
for power to carry out the project proposed. In the act
passed in the reign of George IV., authority to make
Manchester-street and Strand-street was given. Then,
again, in 1837
tSimouthrioCaasele-hstz
thewens ob trna improved e
for
do
and since that
the same purpose, fer the • act of 1846 only
included the powers which were embodied in that
of 1837. The consequence therefore was that the
town was retrograding, and not prospering ; they were
not keeping pace with those who had precaded there
and they were enjoying the lebeare and expense-of. the
generation which had gene by. Alderman Beintetethen
described the nature of the iritproeinezits contemplated,
referring the andience to the plan. The first was a road
between 'West Derby-road and the Botanic Gardens,
being nearly a mile in extent. Then there was a street
from Grafton-street, sixty feet wide,epdina.
at the street
which ran east and west, -l t g- the intention of the
C4lllllliltee t^ tali'iy this street into Great George's-street,
giving a through course of traffic into that great town
artery front the extreme south of the tosyn. That
could now be benght. at, it 414'1411U/a of cost com-
pared with what- it ss-oald be after this. Next was
the only matter which was expected to cost a large
amount of money, viz., to widen Church-street from
Lord-street up to St. Peter's Church ; and anyone could
see that this was an improvement that was highly
desirable. Then there was the formation of a road
which would not cost much, as it would go through
land of little value. The last was a serious matter, and
it was one which must be treated, and 'serioiislY too, in
a very short time. Ile alluded tathe apprOaches to the
landing-stage, 'and a Safer transit to the Cheshire shore.
It was a very large question ; it brought them into con-
tact with the Mrsey Docks and 'Harbour Board; .and
there were difficulties surrounding it which 'made. him
fear that they would net lie to include it as a part
of their bill. :fie tiptoed the necessity for the improve-
menis'indicated; and concluded by expressing a hope
that the public generally would have confidence in the
committee and in the Town Council, and would give
their consent to allowing these very desirable impacee-
ments to be carried out,
Mr. BarissTova said :alderman Bennett had proved the
case of the requisitionista to perfection. He had pointed
out tiethe meeting what great improvements bad taken
place without an improvement rate. Mr. Earle had
said, "how can these Ise.done except by a rate ?"—but
we ought not to-day to be asked to go to Parliament to
spend £300,000 on improvements which might have
already been done and paid for—aid he would tell them
why. St. Geoage'sshall was projected to cast 490,600,
but the Corporation had already paid 'spoil the building
and the aproildies.X4oo,Qoo. He said arty architect
or any builder would tell them that such a building
as that could be produced for £150,000. That would have
been a saviug of £l6o,ooo—just one half of the amount.
now required. Then he found that the Town Council
had pulled down property in Shaw's-brow, the Old
Haymarket, and Dale-street, of the annual rateable
value of upwards of £2,000. li.ad they purchased
that property 4014 an improvement acts and kept it like
wise men in their hands; they iiroitld have had £20,000
More, Again, he asked, how came it that the Corporate
committees had paid £8 a-yard for their land in Dale-
street? Why, he need only refer them to the opposite
side ;—the land on which those splendid offices were
built, the police-offices, was scarcely £3. Mr. Thom-
son, who had always an eye to corner lots, and to
good corner lots--(a laugh)--gave for a corner lot
fronting three streets £8 'per yard: a's- (Mr: Thom-
son ; "At the top of Manehester-stteet.") Fronting
Dale-street, within fifty yards of that back rubbishy
property which they had paid £8 per yard fol.. (salut-
ing they had paid the extreme price of £5 a Yard
for it, (and they had 17,000 yards), they would have
saved £60,000 more ; and with the interest of the
Monty ~uuk iu uther absurdities, 1.,„1
their £300,000 worth of improvements completed to-day.
(Applause.) What the people of this town wanted, was
a wise economy in the administration of their funds, and
not fooling their money away as they saw it fooled in
his own neighbourhood. It was his misfortune, shOuid
he say, to reside in a locality cursed by town improve-
ments. They had removed the inhabitants and left the
property' in a state of dilapidation ; end he said it was
unfair, n,nwisse; and unjust in any public body of men to
do 'that • Which they were doing. (Applause.) They
were perpetrating the same iniquity in Park-lane ;
h they ought
ino. a handsome sum from, and had
ttohle hadre receiving
down property which
built up a blank wall What were they doing further ?
Some time ago, Mr. Henry Booth, a gentleman who
felt great interest in public matters, particularly in the
neighbourhood of St. George's-hall, said that the Council
had unfortunately got some toys', and that they must
find a place to put them an. They hadlions—(laughter)
—they ijad candleStiO(reneWed laughter.) He (Mr.
ilairStoAl did' not know where they were remove o,
but he supposed, the inhabitants some fine day would
formerly- ht be
Called upon to find a place to p.,u.t. them. they
had a magnificent stone bainstrade, w
sur-
rounded St. Qeoage•a-ball; and, if gentlemen would
ua ymagnificent present
oal go, into his neighbourhood, the would see
y
of Mr. 113-elim, they had ac put up a _
plat-
form,
applause. ito exhibit the stone balustrade. (Laughter And
people t.o get
intoo
t the
) He supposed, as a kind of finish to the beau-
tiful end of the platform which fronted his house, they
would ornament it with the two candlesticks. (Loud
laughter.)
- • it - trifle to put monuments of the
Well, after doing that, he should most
certai s4bsen 0 a
r;
q,d
chairman and deputy-chairman of the committee
and
committees who were so extravagantly hod,,
(Laughter and loess
the tops of the candleatictt_
as.
wilfully:and wastefully expendisn,e. tite public money,
upon
money he
applause.) 4av,is"4sttemt their
rEeirler;iii that the. town might look upon them and
say, "these are the ?lieu who have perpetuated this
folly," aa,d would be as a warring
to succeeding
o'eneratious. (Applause.) Let the Finance Committee
furnish the members of the corporation with a list of
their estate ; and then, like the George Inn, in Dale-
street, individual members might put their fingers upon
some e
if sold, might pro-
duceit
rtg
ebnitt) o
wf
ih propertywo enable'dWhir
them to improve
the r,eoiimirlic'Od and' improve the corporate lupde
Now; 'he said it Was a wise administration, of the r. r.
-
'
porate estate that was the want and if t4ey did thin,
they world not have to ask, fen a rate ; but by economical
rSatiagerießt, any
be reps rte feu who,in day and generation,
their
actiug as faithful stewards, they would
had spelt the public money as it ought to be spent.
(Loud aid protracted applause),
Mr. :AMES THOMSON said—Mr. Bennett says he
does hop this year you will go to Parliament. I sip-
cerely tape you won't go to Parliament this year.
There ar some splendid hotels there ; and an etteisse toot
one, but man
go to Paliament will ka,-i.Te year by year. I
y
that
is most ,iaga.abefill. 'lir. Earle is pleased to say Now
ccuamitt4es ; and the money spent theren
small 'lases do not pay much towards rates. d
that
the rental of £2.08
t
I looker this morning at a paper, which showe t at
the rats paid upon a nett annual
amountd to £4O 14s. Does Mr. P:41.1e, calf that a
small paportion ?
for taxes. (Loud
Mr. IscialsoN—They 'are assessed
Mr. lARLE—What are, they assessed for ?
d I
to tell tITe distance
think M Earle will be kind
linilgoliutl. (Mr. Earle t
laughter'Then, with respect to those new road I
from th Tunnel Hotel going
he kinds enough to ask your
yeah) Thep will you
brother a make that road himself; it is through his
own lad. Loud laughter, and applause.) Mr.
might be made without costing them a
Thomson concluded by showing how a road twenty
yards
shilling. He hoped the meeting would set their faces
against
Mr my cheap trip to London.
Mr. I+ have been.. very witty,
on many occasions.si!, at my
ex
-11 rid been charmed With'itennesieb. (Laughter.). I have heard your wit before in
cop
I beg to:diyoin as far as my prOperty goes, the public
81141 do ith it as Mr. Stewart, or any other indepen-
dent rai, may say is fair between, man arid map.
(Appian) lam no advocate of my own interest ; I
am an ar, s. for the, public, good, and shall do all I
oceefe
sire to pmote it. I scorn such insinuations.
Mi. 66:i Wlantai,3o, thought that there was only
one ;spina in tha doom,--that it was desirable to have
public itgovements on the same terms that they had
had she hitherto. There was a marked distinction
betweenhe past and what was proposed for the future.
Up to ti present time a corporate property had found
the neat of making the improvement;, Taxatiim had
incrrasetenormously,—for sanitary purposes and other
olsjats, There was 4 point When the retev,ayfAs
food i wa; ;ucenyeuieut, to pay farther increased
ta.xtiou and he insisted that that point of time
w the' iresent. He far one fel', the time had arrived
whn' thy should ally as cane man make a stand, and say
• the world, not endure increased taxation. (Cheers.)
Aso,niniber two improvement, the Corporation had a
la)a estate called " Newsharn-house Estate." Why
meal that and buy the lands on either side of th 3 road
wth thy proposed to cut through, and sell it to what
MEarle and others had been pleased to call more than
on "ferry builders?" Th.e Corporation had a large
incest iu reversions lika those in Catherine-street,
Psy-street, and tliford-street. Now, the improves
mts were all made there ; and what was the necessity
tceelding these reversions ? Why not sell the free-
lid, and buy the land by the side of-those roads which
it,as proposed to improye ? Until' the funds were
bier administered it teas ircipiident,'in his opinion, for
tiratengyorsi fe consent to the proposal which had been

fr. ALPAss was certain that if the town could be
p(e'd upon the question submitted to them—whether
not they should for some definite period put a stop
toll improvement—he was sure a majority of the rate-
prci would be againA the resolution, (Hear, hear.)

The majority were in favour of well considered and
judicious improvements. Not a gentleman had addressed
them but admitted that he was a friend to well consi-
dered improvements; but if they adopted the resolution
they stopped improvement for an indefinite period.
Some of the arguments urged he had been surprised to
hear,—especially from the gentleman who spoke
last. No man knew better, that it was impos-
sible to deal with owners of land in laying out
streets without an act of Parliament. They would
not sell their lands, or they would only do so upon
ruinous terms. Therefore, for speakers to argue it was
unnecessary. to go for an act of Parliament, showed that
they were in perfect ignorance. They could not deal
with the smallest of these improvements without an act
of Parliament. (Hear, hear.) He should not conclude
without an amendment, so that the feeling of the
meeting might be tested upon the question. He felt
satisfied that there was not one of those improvements
—with the exception of that marked number 6 (the
approaches to the river), which he contended the
Cheshire folks had more to do with than we have—
which all would not be ready to admit ought tolbe
carried out. And, as had been urged, now was the time
to do it. Hesitate for two years, and he knew of his
own knowledge that No. 2 would cost them double the
money. It was madness to stand still.in these matters.
The traffic of the streets was increasinv'aildqh6 =popu-
lation of LiVerpool did not stand still ;while, they were
making ap,,Lheir minds. The increase of the districts
increased thrtraffic in the centre of the town, and now
was the time to begin with what he thought was not a
large or extravagant matter. He moved " That the
meeting approves of the improvements marked Nos. 1,
2,3, 4, and 5 on the map exhibited, and requests the
Town Council, with a proper regard to ecmionly, to
carry them out as early as convenient," Re trusted he
should find a seconder. He was certain, if the meeting
came to a resolution which would have the effect of
stopping all improvements, they would commit a great
mistake. (Hear, hear.)
A gentlaman in the gallery; of the nano' Of Simons,
said he should have great pleasure in seconding the
amendment, if the mover would add to it—" after the
improved approaches to the St. Ileorge's-hall shall have
been completed."
Mr. ALPASS said when St, George's-hall would be
finished he defied any man to tell. He did not think
the further annual expenditure upon St. George's-hall
could he very great. Still, seeing what it had
for the last seven years, he could not but agree to. affix
such a condition to his amendment.

Mr. William Evans seconded ;lie amendment, which
was put and lost ; only about twelve hands being held
up in favour of The original motion was then put,
and carried amid great applause.
Mr. CLARKS Asi,n4-Ai.t. then, in a highly complimen-
tary speech, proposed Et vote of thanks to the Mayor.
ills- Worship responded; and the meeting, which
had lasted for three hours, then broke up.

SAYERS AND HEENAN AT THE
ZOOLOGICAL GARDENS.

• . ,
Yesterday the twn redoubtable' champions of the P.R.
exhibited themselves at the Zoological Gardens, on which
occasion, notwithstanding the high price of admission,
th4e was a very numerous and respectable audience.
The " entertainment" consisted, besides a sparring exhi,
bition or " set-to" between Sayers and Heenan, of
athletic and acrobatic feats by Messrs. Murray and Hyer,
and the ceremony of the presentation belts. There was
a baud also present. M. d. M. Morris presided, and
read the addresses. Of course the great thing was the
sparririn by which both men showed their tact, talent,
and science. 'Six rounds were sparred.
In round 1 both men were well up, and, after some
hitting and stopping, Heenan's long left arm succeeded
in reaching Tom'a month,
2nd Round—Heenan was again on Tom's face.
;3,14 Vvon,n;i—A good deal of feinting, and at last
Sayers lunged out, hit Heenan on the face, and nearly
knocked him down.
4th Round—Blows exchanged on ±,b,e. face.
sth Round—Sayers on HaP, —l's face again.
6th Round—The hitting was really grand in this last
round. Three. several times did Heenan hit Sayers on
the, forehead; and as many times did Sayers hit Heenan.
ria)th men came to close quarters and theca refixed,
whereupon they were loudly cheered.

TOXTETH 1101.kR.I) O,F HgALTIL

Tiitl monthly meting of this board was held yester-
day, in the board-room ef the Public-offices, Park-road.
Mr. S. itlpass presided ; and the other members
present were Messrs. F. Woodhead, E. Hill, G.
Walker, Hargreaves, IW. D. Smith, Jos. Boult, ex,d,
John Rogers.
Before the ordinary business wall proceeded with,
Mr. EDWARDS, of WaYertkee, rose to lodge complaints
against the conduct of Mr. Monkhouse, the surveyor
for the board. In doing so he believed he was per-
forming a public duty to society in general. He would
truly detail the circumstances of the case that they
might form a right judgment upon it ; and he would,.
first mention that a day or two before the events corn-

, •
plained of took place he was passing down Wellington-
road, and remarked what au improvement was being
made, He even said to, one of the labourers that he
wished, hp could get up a subscription to complete the
road and extend the improvements to the end of it. He
saw Mr. Monkhouse on the following day, and although
that gentleman was not then impertinent, he was rude
in his manner. On Tuesday, the 22nd ultimo, he was
going down Smithdown-lane in a car when he overtook
a friend, Mr. Janion, who got in and accompaniedhim to
the place where the men were workng. He then got
~.4, ~.,.1 4,,, ~,, r.--....2ea giAu .1,7 ca;rnig Lt. e folio. tte
said to Mr. Monkhouse, who, was standing by, " I
will have a dinner,party at may how, and I shall
be very glad if you will ttuv• the rut filled up."
. To, which M. Monkhouse replied, " I will attend
to that," Mr. Edwards then said, " The nights
are, very dark now, and it is easy to place a light
near these altwations." Mr. Monkhouse said—" We
do not do that here." He (Mr. Edwards) then con-
tinued—" Why, even in my country, where they do
some strange things, they have lights, " Mr. Monk-
house, in reply, made some observations to, the effect
that they Ittapvi: how te, do things in this cauutry, Mr.
Etiwards—" I believe you mean to he impertinent."
Mr. Is replied,—," 'Von cl-,,.--. liar, if you do
not walk on I will pull your nose." The speaker then
said, that, having a great dislike to the operation referred
to, he called, Mr. Monkhouse a " confounded ruffian ;"
to which that gentleman replied, " If you don't walk on
this instant I will kick your backside." Nwe words
followed, but the speaker chiefly complained of those we
have given. Had he forgotten his position he would
certainly have chastised 114. Monkbouse in such a way
as to prevent him, from being impertinent to his betters
in ktare, lie thought he had describedeverything that
took place. Mr. Janion woald, have. appeared at the
board to confirm his statement, but he had been called I
out of town, as thl follming letter would show :

TO TENISON ESQ.

"ay dear Sir,— -I regret P.Ntremely that, in consequence of
my having to go up to London to-day, I shall not be able to
accompany yoll to the meeting of the Board of Health for Tox-
teth-oark to-morrow, to bear testimony to the unprovoked and
gross impertinence which you experienced in my presence t•om
the overseer who was superintending the re-making of
~„,, asa.ctuuUß, toe Und ult. ; but this I
can say, that no description of big impertinence can exceed the
reality. Should the board adjourn the reconsideration of your
complaint to aonAe future day after next week I shall be happy
to atterdk, fS, I consider you are performing a public service in
bringing this matter before the boarck.-,4 aria, my dear sir,
yours Taithfully, ROBERT C. JANION.

_ .
Wellington Lodge, Wv,vertree, 4th June, 1560,
Mr, Motikhca.lisa peribrmed duties for the • board which
tpxy they were supposed to perform themselves.
lie Would therefore ask them to inflict some punishment
to prevent that person from insulting tha public again.
He would suggest a fine, the money to, be devoted to
some charitable subscription, or. by. any other means
which might strike the bpa,rd as being desirable.
Mr. MoNv.novsa said he believed he was the person
against whom the complaint was made. It was two or
three weeks ago, when two gentlemen came along Wel,-
lington-road, to where they were working at th,e repairs ;
and one of them asked him whether. he was going to
have the rut filled up, to which he. replied "Yes." The
same gentleman (Mr. Edwards), made remarks about the
mode of making the roads, and said he had never seen
worse ones in Ireland. Some further conversation took
place in which he (Mr. Monkhouse) was called "a d-
impudent scoundrel." He was ready to take his oath
that he was first called "a d- scoundrel." He then
told Mr. Edwards he would pull his nose if he didn't go
away. He considered that he was the party who. had
received the provocation.

Mr. EDWARDS most distinctly, denied all that Mr.
Monkhouse had said, wild conrieted him of
.posiatixe
falsehood. Mr. Janion, who was the other gentleman
referred to, could corroborate his statement if he were
present, but unfortunately he had been called out of
town,

Mr. SmITH proposed that the matter be, adjourned
until there was some further evidence.
The nkotioaa was seconded.

Mr. BOVLT said they might have some difficulty in
dealing with this question. By Mr. Edward's own
statement he was certainly overstepping hiis duty in
remarking upon the way in which th 4 xoad; was made.

Mr, EDWARDS—I deny making any unfavourable
comments.

Mr. Botaa• continued that his opinion was directly
opposite, lfter hearing Mr. Edwards' first statement.
They knew that a parson was apt to get annoyed when
a stranger eamo in criticise his proceedings. It seemed
to him to be a case in which the board could not inter-
fere. Mr. Edwards said Mr. Monkhouse first used
impertinent language, and Mr. Monkhouse said Mr.
Edwards first used the impertinent language. As far
as he could see Mr. Monkhouse's statement was ac,
much to be relied upon as that of Mr. Edwards, He
would therefore move that they proceed wi,th the ordi-
nal y business.
Mr. HAROREAVES seconded the motion.
Mr. EDWARDS—The ge4tlernan who has just addressed
you, and of whom I have personally no knowledge, has
assumed that I contradict myself about the road. On
the contrary, I never said one word against the way in
which the repairs were being made,
Mr. BOULT hoped that the board would not give
encouragement to proceedings of this kind by deferring
the matter. Supposing it turned out that Mr. Monk-
house's stateruPuc was the true one, what jurisdiction
had they over Mr. Edwards ?-
The votes were then tAken, and found to be decidedly
in fav,onr of Mr. Boulea motion, namely, that the ordi-
nary business be proeeeded with.
Mr. EDWARDS regretted that the board bad not more
respect for themselves than to allow their servants to
act in this way. Ile then left the room.
The ordinary business, which was merely of a formal
nature, was then transacted,