The Stourbridge Observer, Cradley Heath, Halesowen & District Chronicle.
Stourbridge, West Midlands, England, 1872-03-02 00:00:00

THE TICHBORNE CASE.

The hearing of this ease was resumed on Monday morning,
when the Lordlef Justice at the sitting of the court
handed to the Attorney General a paper which had been sent
to him with a request tin it he would hand it to the counsel
for the defendant, the writer saying that he had no other
means of communication. lite lordship added that he had
not read the paper.

The Attorney General, after perusing lt, said: "1 hope the
Welter paid the postage," for it is not worth it.
Lady Katharine Doughty said I am a daughter of the
ninth Lord Anetelell, and married Or Ldward Doughty in
June, IS;1, Who,. Roger was five years old he stayed with
ha for a Short time. In 1838 he came again with Sir James
and Mr. Chatillon. Ile was nine years old. Ile hail an
Issue 'in his arm. It hail Am in kept open, I believe nearly
two years, The effect was that the arm had shrunk, and
was ni11,111019 than the ether, and the chest was drawn awl
thin. Mr. lather, of Poole, a medical man, recommended
that it should he else, at once, and after a correspondence
With Mr. Tichborne it was ehmed. 11 had been kept open
With two pews, imd the wound wan very deep. I believe the
peas were one above the other in depth. There WAS only one
sore. It was towards the shoulder on the left arm. The
mark remained always, so far as I remember. I saw It as
late as 1849 certainly, and perhaps as late on 16.52. The mark
was less In depth, but there was still a depression.
To the jury : It was as large as a shilling, leahould say.
To the Attorney.lleneral lam quite sure that it was a
single wound, and not two, caused by a thread being passed
through. its Mal tattooed on the arm in 1846 with a cross,
a heart, and an anchor; and afterwards he had initials done.
I saw the marks seseral times.

Have you any doubt upm the subject V— None whatever.
They were on the timer stile of the lower part of the left
ann. He said the emblems were done by a sailor on the
coast of Brittany or Normandy. The initials he said were
done by a friend at Stoneyhunt. When I heard the name of
Renew it occurred to me that he said " Bellew did it." Ile
came veer to attend the funeral of Sir Henry, and soon after
he went to Stoneyhurat. At that time ha talked very little
English—very broken English. The last time I saw him seas
the 22nd of June, 1852. Ile then spoke correct English,
but with a foreign accent: latterly, he and I always
talked English. lie talked very good French down to
June, 1632. He spent part of his vacations from Stoney-
burst with us. I recollect Mrs. Tichborue from Faris
corning over against her husband's will. They would
net let her into Tichborne House, and she went to Mr. Hop-
kins'. Roger went between the two houses to make peace.
She drove up to the hack yard at Tichborne, and there was
• disturbance there and afterwards at Alresford. In Sep-
tember amt October, 1847, Roger was with us, and he was
there again In the summer of 1848. lie was there in Septem-
ber and October, 1818. Soon afterwards he left Stmeyhurist
anti came to us at Tichbome, and remained from November,
1848, to the following July. He frequently went over
to Brookwood, Colonel Greenwood's place, and spent
some time there. Sir Edward gave Roger a horse,
and encouraged Mar in country pursuits. We re-
garded him as the successor to the title. Mr. Tilt, • priest,
was a good deal at lichborne House down to 1818. A bet
was made which was the tallest—Roger or Mr. Tilt. They
were measured against the door between the dining and the
drawing rooms. Roger was sft. Slin. ; Mr. Tilt was 51t. bin.
Down to the time that I left Tichborne on Sir Edward's
death, the marks of measurement on the door were still to
be seen. In July, 149, Roger went to Mr. Seymour's, in
Vpper Grosvenor. -street, to prepare for entering the
army. On our way to Scotland we passed through
London, and called upon him, anti spent some boars. lie saw
us on board—Sir Edward, my daughter and myself. In 1.813
Roger read a great deal besides what he read in order to pass
his examination. lie read both French and English, and he
Wrote a good many letters. Ile was fond of music, and he
could read it. lie did not certainly associate with the game-
keepers and servants. Ile was reserved and rather shy. Ile
liked the society that we had, and did not go with the see.
rants. He behaved In society as a young gentleman should.
Ile was at our house occasionally, after he entered the army.
From 1849 there was a constant correspondence going on
between him anti me of the most confidential and cordial
kind. Ile consulted nre about all his affairs. Ile read Racine
and Moliere and Chateaubriand, and he was very fond
of books and traveL He was particulary taken with
" Steven's Central America," and asked that he
might take it with him. Ile 11.'4 to address
me as 'My aunt," laying stress upon "my." I first became
aware of his attachment to my daughter Katherine just
before he joined his regiment, after we had come back from
Scotland. No, it must have been later than that, it was not
until 1851. lie was with us when be came of age in 1830.
Miss Brain was there then. Roger was at Tichborne when
my daughter came home irons school at New Hall in Esaex
in 1851, and he stayed two or three weeks This was in June
or July. On Christmas Eve, 1831, he came again and stayed
only a short time, on the 311th of December there was a ball
given to the tenants. Mr. James Ticuhorne and his two
tams, Roger Buil Alfred, were there. Sir Edward anti I did
not approve of Roger's attachment to our daughter. Sir
Edward talked to him about it, and expressed his wish that
he should leave Ile left in consequence. I was not aware
until that very day that my daughter and he hall come to an
understanding. We parted upon a friendly footing. I was
not present at the interview between Sir Edward and Roger.
Sir Edward was very fond of Roger. It was on the 12th of
January, 1852, that Roger left. On the 21st of that month
Sir Edward was very dangerously ill, and he wished Roger
to be sent for. I wrote to him, and he came. He stayed till
the 11th of February. Ile was with his uncle constantly,
lie sat up sometimes. I sometimes, Alia sometimes both
together.
During these 11 or 12 days he was at Tiehborne was any-
thing fixed, one way or the other, concerning the attach-
ment with his conga 7—Sir Ede ard dictated a written
promise.
Where you aware that his affection remained the same ?
Yes, but his father was not aware of the state of his affec-
tions. It was my wish that as little as possible should be
sail about it. I thought it best that, unless;it was to be,
there should be no misaulderstandiog between the brothers.
Roger went away on the Ilth, and Sir Edward recovered and
liveel for a year afterwards. I next saw Roger Tichborne in
town on the Otis of June. Ile came from Canterbury, and on
the lath of June I again saw him. Ile came up to town anti
went to the Caledonian 1.11. He stayed in town some days,
and went back to Tichborne with us. Sir Edward Doughty

w!is tiL.7n.";-0-F;e". We weu home or the I)th otJuno,aud he

stayed anti! the 22nd.
Then, Roger went away on the 23rd of June I—Yes.
Did you, Lady Doughty, ever see him again I—Never.
A good deal of correaNudence passed between Roger nail
yon after that /—Ves.
You did not consider this as a final parting/-2io. he went
back to his regiment, but he never came back again.
None of the family took it ma final part ingl—N o.
Did you ever see him again I—Lnever ilia ace him again.
, , •

Was there anything dc, ided at this visit about the attach-
ment P—Noth lug FM finally settled.
Was anything settled after that I—lie msented to the ar-
rangement of Sir Edward's, but nothing was to be pressed on
Kettle until she became of age.
You soy 'lie assented ti the arrangement, but it was not
to be pressed. Am I to take it that there was no engage-
Ment ?—There was no engagement.
In your letters you speak of his habits as open to objec-
tion. You tell him that a wife ought to be able to look up
to her husband, and that you had had an interview with
your child, who hail not yet made up her mind about him,
anti so en. Had you hail an inters ills. 5 ith your daughter
when you wrote that —Yes, mid I had ascertained what I
tzdd him to be true.
Did you yourself remain personally on affectionate terms
with him I—Always, up to the very last. I was very much
interested in his character, and I felt a strung affection for
him.

What was there that you objected to in his habits
Lad a habit of drinking spirits, which I thought injured his
health, though I cannot say that I ever saw him the worse
for it except once.
There is a reference in a letter of his to books—" bad
books." Did he read had books 7—Yes, he told me so him-
self—chiefly French hooks.
Did you also kil.)w that he smoked a good deal ll—Yes, but
not so ninth at Tichborue, for Sir Edward had a great ob-
jection to it.
These matters, then, were the matters that you referred to
when you spoke of his not being the kiwi of person you could
trust your daughter to l—Yes, and I was afraid they would
grow upon him. I hoped also that he might correct himself
of them.

And the close relationship was an objection ?Yen ; with
Sir Edward it was a very strong objection.
A meniber of the Church of Rome cannot contraCt a mar.
tiage with a cousin without the leave of the Church—without
setting a dispensation ?—No.

-
All these things annoyed him very much ?—Yes they slid.
In the autumn he determined to sell out of the army to go
abroad ?—Yes, and we objected to that.
Did you then learn that he thought of getting a box
somewhere in Hampshire and huuting t—Yes.
Was that a thing you objected to?—That we decidedly
objected to, and that was what annoyed him most.
What was your objection to that a—lf he were constantly
near Tichborne, and not going to the house, it would have
created observations detrimental both to himself and us, and
that we objected to. We therefore offered him the use of
Upton, which was between fifty and sixty miles off. Ile
went there, but not for long.
When he was pang abroad did you ask him to come to
Tichlmrne ?—Yes, but Ito would not. He said be would see
us at Winchester, and I went, but he had already gone. He
would not are me.
Did you ever see him at Tichborne again before he left?—
o, I once heard that he hail met the hounds somewhere
near, and he had sent his horse on from Winchester, but Ile
cild not come to Tichborne.
What was Roger like when he went away ?-11.3 was very
thin, and his hair was very long and hung down.
Had his hair a tendency to curl ?—lt was particularly
straight. I have stock of it here now. [Lock of hair handed
In by witness.]
Examination resumed He hail very dark, straight hair.
He hail no twitching at the eyebrows that I can recollect
Ile wait months at my house. I now him at all times and
under all circumstances, and I recollect nothing of the sort.
I Lave seen the hair of the claimant, it is wit at all like what
Roger's hair was. Roger was not knock-kneed. It was
always considered that he was weak in the knee. He took a
long step, bending forward. The facts and allusions in the
corremaindence between Roger and myself, which have been
rrail were, I have no doubt, true ; but it is so long since that
I cannot remember them. fhey were meant by me to be true
when they were written. I received letters from hint after
he went abroad. They were affectionate up to the last.
By the Lord Chief Justice The date it the last letter
was Monte Video, lath of March, 1054.
Examination resumed: I was aware of the dowager's
earnest desire for Roger's restoration. I heard of the claim-
ant putting forward his claim. Lady Tichbonte had told
me of it. Mr. larval sent me a letter, and I answered
that I felt sure it must be the long-lost Roger. Ohl
Mr. Tirval awl Mr. James Tichborne were intimate,
and I thought the young men were acquainted.
wrote this letter with the belief that Mr. Timid re-
cognised the claimant. At that time I began to think
he was the man. Then about that time Mr. liaigent
wrote to me to know what I had heard. I answered that
letter. Then a few days after Lady Tichborne showed
me a litter from the claimant with the words " The Blessed
Marla" iii it. The momeot I now it I said, "Ilarriet, this
is not his writing." Lady Tichborne said he might have
forgotten his writing in the hush; but when I came to the
words, "the Blessed Marla," I said, " Roger could not have
written that : it could not have been written by a Catholic."
It showed ignorance, did ii? --Yes; the expression is not
applied in that way. We only ask her prayers, and not ask
her for mercy. I changed nip mind then, and decided the
claimant could not be Roger.
You saw the claiment at the law Institution, and again
In court durilig his eseminatiou and area, examination.
Have you formed any opinion about hint t—Yes, a decided
Opihion.
. . . _

-'What is It f—That he isnot my nephew, Roger Charles
Tichborne.
Have you any doubt !--Not the slightest.
The cross-examination of Lady Doughty occupied the
remainder of the day, and at four o'clockthe Court adjourned
k Ail Wednesday.

The hearing of the case was resumed on Wednesday morn-
ing. Lady Doughty again took her seat in the witness-box,
and her cross-examination was continued by Mr. Gifford,
Who commenced by calling upon the defendant's attorneys
under a xvlbro,in dice, teem,, to produce the draft " proof
of Lady Doughty's evidence.
The Lord. chief Justice said that he had no power to co-
the production of the paper it must rest with the Attorney-
General whether lie chose to produce it or not.
Mr. i;ilfard said his object in asking for the "proof' was
to see whether she gave the same account of the tattoo marks
when her evidence was originally taken down in 1870 as she
had given in the witness box, or whether her mind had been
since refreshed in any way. He cited in support of Ms
right to have the " proof " produced the cases of Spenceley
Shootinburgh, 7 East 357 ; Lest, tinge r Rawlins, 5; Milne
e. Crane and Mackenzie t. Yeo, 2nd, Curtis "Ecclesiastical
Reports"
The Attorney-General contended that this was the first
time that it had been argued that such a document as this
must be produced. The " proof " was a statement taken
down for the purpose of being afterwards introduced in the
brief for the defendant; it was a document which he had
never seen, but he objected to the production upon
principle. If this case should proceed to its natural tormi.
nation there were 200 or 270 witnesses to be produced ; and
the confidential commiinications between all these witnesses
ami the defendant's attorneys might be called for upon the
same principle as this "proof " was now called for. The
learned gentkman relied upon the cases in Greenhough
Gaskell, Wooley e Poole, 14 Common Bench Cossey e. The
Brighton Railway Company, ;:9 Law Journal, Common
Pleas Steel r. Stewart, Ist Phillips, p. 471, and the Chartered
Bank of India n. Rich, 4 Rest and Smith.
flit Lyra ChM Jwitice saki it was a great uortlty to say

compel

that the materials for a brief could be called for by the
opposite side. If this course were sanctioned, then in every
case the draft of evidence of every witness who was im-
peached would be called for, and such a course would be en-
tirely contrary to the practice that had always prevailed ,
daring Ids time. Ile had Tin power to compel the produc-
tion of the document audit ha had snob power it would be
contrary to the practice to force its production. The docu-
ment was simply called for and not produced, and the case
must proceed in the ordinary course without it.
Mr. Serjeaut Itallantlne said if the deCiSi4 ,11 were to pro-
ceed on this ground, he should take some other means of
rai-log the question in a more definite form: for the question
was an important one that must be decided upon its merits
Lady Doughty then said : I think that I received two or
three letters from Moore when in South America, but I
handed theni all over to my solicitor. I remember Moore
writing that he had had a portrait of Roger taken out there.
Mr. thtfani : You wrote to Moore on the 31st of March,
1554, "I am very much obliged to you for your long and in-
teresting letter dated the 30th of January." "I am de-
lighted you had Roger's portrait taken." Did you nailer-
stand there were portraits coming which had been taken at
the instance of Roger and of Moore also ?—1 understood that
they were both taken at the same tune. I received like por-
trait that is in the ease and has been produced and that
one in the oval frame John Moore afterwards gave to me
after his return. When I heard of the supposed return of
Roger I comhated the idea. It was the letters of Mr. Tar.-
ville that made me waver. I and my faintly would have
been glad to see him, but I thought it would be a painful
recollection that lie had been away from us fur so many
years.
Did you not think it a misfortune that he should return ?
I ain sure 1.11.1 not. I knew Lady Tichborne had not given
up the ides of his return.

In your letter of the 20th of October, 12uit, you way : The
mass of evidence I have seen from different parties writing
from Australia, together with what the Dowager Lady Tich.
borne admits, lexves no doubt that this person must be
Roger, but the circumstances altogether make it a painful
event for the family." What was the mass of evidence!—
Mr. Terrine's letters. I don't recollect anything else. I
may have meant the correspondence which she said else had
carried on on the subject. I suppose I thought she bad
reason for believing what she stated. Perhaps I wrote in
a hurry, not having due regard to expressing myself.
Did you waver in your opinion P—l suppose I did for a
moment.
. . .

What did you mean by saying the circumstances will
make it a painful event in the family " ?—1 referred to lais
having been away so lung, and to there having been a suc-
cession to his father. I thought that made Ilia return a pain-
ful event. I had a high opinion of Bogle. I thought he was
a faithful servant to my husband. After his return to this
country I was out of town, and when I came back I did not
see hint. I stopped his annuity by the advice of my solicitor.
Ile was then no longer servant of mine, anti had no claim
upon me. He went into another service, and that is why I
withdrew the pension.
Before that had you not treated the pension as binding on
your conscience, although not binding in point of law ?—I
did not think it was binding on my conscience. I gave it
of my own free will, knowing it was the wish of my
husband.

The learned counsel read a letter of witness of October 20,
105.8, to Bogle, in Australia, in which she said she could not
In conscience keep back his money, even if she had no regard
for bile—Witness replivil that she meant she could not stop
the annuity without giving him notice.
In answer to other questions Lady Doughty said : I have
said the expression, .• May the blessed Marla have mercy on
your soul," which occurs in one of the plaintiff's letters to
the Dowager, is one which no Catholic would have written.
We ask our Blessed Lady to pray to her Son to have mercy
on us, but we do not ask our Blessed Lady herself to have
mercy on us. A good Catholic might say, May our Blessed
Lady protect you." Roger was a well-instructed Catholic,
though sometimes he might have been negligent In his re-
ligious duties. After the second day's examination Moore
told me that he then thought he was Roger. I might have
said, "so much the worse." I told him that I thought he
had better see him again before he made up his mind.
The Lord Chief Justice, before the adjournment, inti-
mated that he should not nit after one o'clock the following
day (Thnrsday.)
Lady Doughty continued : It appears from, letter of mine
that the portrait Boger sent to England never arrived. This
was the portrait sent to Lady Tichborne. I offered, In con-
sequence, to give Sir James the portraits I had received, but
he declined the offer. A journal of Roger's was also sent,
but that did not arrive either. . .

Re-examined : I received me portrait from the hand of an
Englishman trading in Chili, to whom Moore had entrusted It.
After Sir James's death I gave my portrait to Lady Tichborne.
had it copied when tint I received it. I never Saw
Moore to speak to him alter the second day's examina-
tion at the Law Institution. Upon the second day lie came
of his own accord to me. Ile said that up to the time
of adjourning for lunch he dhl not think the plain-
tiff was Roger, but afterwards he thought it was him, lie
said that looks had passed between them, but he also said
he had noticed the mark on the eyebrow, which he thought
he should have seen. Sir Edward had expressed a wish that
I should remember Bogle, and it was therefore that I paid
him £5O a year out of my own money. Sir Edward did not
leave lam any money, but he told me his wish, and ally wish
he expressed I complied with. Sir Edward slid not mention
any BUM that Bogle should have. She heard from Bogle
iii Sydney about the time of the plaintiff making his appear-

mice. -
To the Lord Chief Justice lam now Ti; years of age.
A long discussion took place in reference to the question
whether some pocket-books of Lady Doughty, in which she
had made memoranda, had been put in evidence; and which
discm,sion In the end came to nothing.
The Lord Chief Justice: And this is the hundredth day of
the trial.
The Foreman of the Jury : It is perfectly intolerable the
way in which our time has been wasted.
the Attorney-General: I perfectly agree.
Mr. Serjeant Ballantine: The observation does not apply
to One side only, I suppose.
The Foreman of thy Jury : To both sides.
Lade Doughty confirmed : The dowaevr, before the plain-

tiilT;inie over, told me that they certainly.had lowa' ton
aud that she had plenty of evidence, I,nt she did not shove
:fin any letters or other evidence. I ail quite curtain that
Roger Was not at Tichborne on any occasion in 1652 but
those I have mentioned Roger.. had inflammation of
. . . . _

ii;--ch;g:.-.1;;;.!..e-st-lan.d. I 1.,•,1 hjint that
,t.lriuking

.....
spirits would he had for this. My objections to him were
the drinking of spitits, smoking, and the reading of bad
books. I had no general objection to him on the score of
character, or on any other ground. I was ill in IS, but I
doul recollect that my evidence was taken down on that
occasion. I cannot ON the date when this was done. I cer-
tainly did mention the tattoo marks when twos first asked for
my evidence, bat I cannot say when this was. My impression
is that the initials on Roger's arm were crossways of the
arm, and that the emblems were lengthways, but it is more
than twenty years ago that I last saw theni. lam certain
that the initials were there, built Is only to the bust of my
belief that I saw the initials were crossways.
Now, on consideration, have you any doubt about the
plaintiff'—No, I bare no doubt whatever tlmt he is not my
nephew, Roger Charles Tichborne.
The Lord Chief Justice : Have you any recollection of
Roger's ears and their junction with the face P—l should say
that Roger's ears joined the face so that there was no pen-
dent lobo at all? The mark of the issue was clear and
distinct. It was sunk, and had a raised rim round it, I
think. tam quite sure that it was at the lower part of
the thick part of the arm, and rather Ia the front if the
, arm. lam sure it was not higher up the arm towards the
shoulder. . . ,

Are you certain whether•there was sine or two sores 1- I
am certain that there was only sine sore. The initials upon
Roger's arm were fainter than the emblems.
Your attention hoeing been called to the matter, have
you any doubt whether the initials were on the arms 7—No, I
have no doubt now, I have also no doubt as to the emblems
being there.
Did you ever knew of any light brown mark on Roger's
side never heard of or saw it.
Did you ever know of Roger Tichborne being concerned in
any "Card case at Brighton?"—l never heard it.
Mrs. Lucy Mary Nangle : I am the slaughter of 81r Henry
Tichborne, the seventh baronet, and sister to Sir Edward
Doughty and Sir James Tichbome. In 1623 I was married to
Mr. Nangle. In 18.33 1 went to live in Paris. I have six
children, four sons and two slaughters. 1 continued in l'aris
until 1846. Sir James was living there. I saw a great deal
of him, and also became ac mainted wills Roger. My
youngest son Walter wan particularly Intimate with him.
Roger used to call use "My aunt Naugle." thatillon was
tutor to Roger, and after wards he had two others, but they
only stayed a short time. Sir James Tlchborne hail a
maitre &hotel, or confidential servant. Ile was with him
all the time I was in Paris. the name was Gosaln. M.
Daranza, a Spaniard, was also a friend of Sir James, and
Roger knew him well. Roger went lo the school of M.
Dupauliiup, the present Bishop of Orleans. We had some
relations named De Ilrimont in France.
sir G. lionyman The plaintiff said that the name was
spelled "lßremont," but added, " I believe at times it was
spelt both ways." (Laughter.) Is there any truth in that 1
Witness: None at all.
The Attorney-General said that if they could not sit the
whole of the following day, it would be better in order to
avoid expenses that they should not nit at all. The expense
of sitting half a day would be as much as sitting a whole

The 'Lord Chief Justice stated that he should have to leave
early, in obedience to her Majesty's command.
The sitting was accordingly adjourned until Friday.
[Our space precludes us from giving more than the
foregoing extracts from the examination and cross-
examination of the witnesses.l