The Stourbridge Observer, Cradley Heath, Halesowen & District Chronicle.
Stourbridge, West Midlands, England, 1869-07-10 00:00:00

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iy 5 , a' :ter the
11 transa the f the Bola° of Lonls,
.„„.,,te busintss, the LortljuChai Ilor on ti c?Awl of
--le table a bill
rs-- .1 the Charitable Trusts Ar ,t„
wows- el the Earl . it Devon, the C
uo, Atetio,e4
Lull read astound time ettAni,A t
1e63) 3
0
e"'"1:14ion Loans 81 II was read a e
The I'OO Lo'rthe Earl of Deco' t. acond time, on
is of Salisbury a ore,] the F.
lin eond reading of
• I moved al 1 amend
14 Earl of l'"‘"'Un • • Land e Meld to extend ce
TM
,isions a the tato JLot
Ad the Eiirl Airlf; udo pro
it
SLPPr;a noble lord,
pencer said th,.' "Al'ett Joe public-houses of Ire-
lir AA'
ii nluntleiruttroLo'e's,i"l,' .arkon of the Government,
shdll
*l'd is
of Salisbury r ant wens,
Ths 8010 i A:meet:eel a conipronilse, and
10,41 Winchilsea
The Esi? - At, rat a question to the Colonial
secretsil 'rtu'it-.B.„er. • wonviction for so-called lurlous
riding confer
kad eerd ignorance of the eirmimstances of
the lireee.:C ,°:l
'Aii; maid he would make it his duty to in-
i"
edit ° 1,. lie, however, remembered that great
poi 2.4.4 • were made 110111 e years ago of the eler-
:yiug ,oa horses in the park.
Tie 1141°11 4 the Committee on the Titles of Religious
c,,screftet!'o' Act Extension Bill was received, and the Public
forks (ire.' A bill was read a third time.
the 11°'' • then went into Committee on the Irish Church
The tr notion of a new clause after Clause 28 was proposed
he lor • Lifford, with the object of repaying to the Preaby-
gene. body the value of churches and manses erected since
10.; bid it was opposed by Lords Grauville, Kimberley, and
Wept gad withdrawn.
Lu dense 29 the archbishop of Canterbury proposed to
lurow back the date from 5 Inch private endowment* are to
be reserved for the benefit of the new Church BOtly from the
Sr 'sae to the second year of the reign of Queen Elizabeth.
Ii further amendments he proposed - '2, to empower the (70m.
,mheitalers to decide whether an endowment were a private
.übauntratimony not strictly legal : and, 3, to vest. Royal grants
sat as private ones in the new Church Body. Hadenled that
dere exoted any adequate reasons for selecting the former
dan, or, on the third point, that 'there anus real distinction
bet.On private and Royal bounty tithe Irish Church. Ile ad-
ereasid the claims of the Irish Church to retain all such
msg., and from the earlier date, especially Archbishop
Brouhall's and the Ulster gifts, on the grounds as well of
justite not expediency, regard being hail to the number and
penny aid Isolation of the Protestants in Ulster, and to their
info toting attachment to the English connexion.
'The Lord Chancellor maintained that the Revel grants
were made for the suppmed religious advantage of the whole
Irish people. Ile referred to historical grounds for conelud-
no Alchhishop Bramhall's and the Ulster grants to be of
blie alfs, the fruits of oppression by Lord Strafford. or
eess by Eiglish blood and bought by English taxes. Ile
doubted that the Irish Church would gaits much by Arch-
bishop Bram hallb gif co, evelt if conceded.
The eien.p of Peterborough set aside the question of the
islOtint of Archbohop 13ramhall's Om, and the illlnculty
oI triicAng them. The Irish Church must take its chaiseof
tt,t. A. to She Lord Chancellors argument that Queen
• theth meant her gifts for the brown of the entire nation,
be milled that she meant them for the benefit of the entire
nation after one especial fashion—vis , Proteetstes,
pii,Anism. The argument that they were meast for the in-
struction of the entire motion In religion ,
..as a strange one
it, she inbuth of a G oVerinnent whik.ll yr.
~,oto, to
o.rry
out
that Intention by depriVing the en'
..re nation of toe whole
benefit of them for Its religions tear
-Mug.
Lord Grenville offered, In the
Caine of the Government, a
oft of a larce sum of half a' million to the Church in lieu of
After observations
• Lord. Powys and Salisbury, the latter
ef whom t
.o those 11111.1,1-n suggestions by the Govern-
ment, by ding of Lichfield, and by Lord Cairns, who
su'r'ted,: .• the date might be omitted for the present,
Entout t
- Reese being milled on to give any opinion as yet
tbs '
Anerrumeut offer, the Archbishop, on MK undentand-
'" tettltdrew his first two amendments.

die Andibtshop's thirst amendment, to vest Royal as well
pneate grants in the new Church body, was opposed by
terd Dufferin, on the ground as well of the injustice to
ether religions denominations of making so large a present,
amounting ma million sterling, to the Protestant Church, as
of the historical fact that the Ulster grant was, from all
points of view, a public grant.
The bishop of Derry, as art fluter man and an Ulster
'lnsane, maintained the equity of the claim of Ulster Leo-
ante to retain the Royal :rant, and the policy of respect-
leg that claim. He urged the King's competence to snake the
grant, and he appealed to the authority of Lord Macaulay
so sapport of the title of the Church to these lauds. Ulster
bad a particular claim upon the generous consideration of
England, and it owed many of its best characteristics to the
Irish Church.
Lord Monek thought the object of the bill, which was to
Wasolish religious equality in Ireland, would be thwarted by
the success of this amendment, In conjunct' oi with those
alrnady carried by Lords Carnation and Salisbury, which
'Could make the disentlowntent merely nominal.
Lord Dunsany admitted that the amendments already
carried dui interiere with the principle of the bill, lint he
suggested that the Government might withdraw the bill and
Introduce it next Session. Mr. tllasietoue was acknowledged
by his admirers to be wiser in 1569 than in 1666. Why should
lw not be still wiser in 16791
Lord tinny, thinking grants to the Church were grants
made for public purposes, could not admit the episcopal ar-
gument of equity. He considered, however, the argument
ITOLLI policy stronger for the Irish Church, and &talking, as
be did, the voluntary principle, he might have voted on this
ground for the amendment, but for the rejection, which he
deplored of the Duke of Cleveland's amendment Ile an-
ticipated disastrous consequences from the result of Friday's

vote.
Lord Kimberley maintained the unreasonableness of Lord
Orey's anger against the Government for refusing, under the
circumstances, to accede to the Duke of Cleveland's amend-
ment
Led Cairns supported the amendment on the ground not
so much of equity or of policy as of slniple justice to the
setthrs, who liad planted Ulster on the distinct faith of that
endowment of the Protestant religion there.
The Lord Chancellor distuted the historical accuracy of
Lord Cairns' statements, which, moreover, he observed,
ignored the admixture of other Protestant elements in Ulster
besides- that of the Episcopal Church. He argued that the
principles on which Lord Cairns opposed the proposed deal-
ing with these Ulster glebe lands would apply equally
against the whole principle of the bill Then, turning to
Lord Grey's attack on the Government, he denied very em-
pbaticaly that, high-minded as was Lord Grey, that Peer
was entitled to denounce himself and his brother ministers
as not equally high-mhmed. The fact was that he and Lord
Grey had been brought up in very different schools of poli-
tics. Lord Grey's theory of Governnient seemed to be the
patern 1, while sass Government believed that the nation had
aright to judge for itself.
The Bishop of Ely denied that Church property was, though
public. national property. lie believed the State bound to
provide fairly for the Irish Church after casting it loose, and
he rem etted the vote of last F, iday because the conferring of
glebe Muses on the other religious bodies in Ireland would
have taken au ay any semblance of inequality in leaving a
certain portion of endowment to the Church. Ile replied to
arguments mimed in the debate on the second reading, to
the effect that an old Church like the Church of Ireland
would gain by being forced into voluntaryism, as though it
were a Church in the first freshness of its Apostolic graces,
and in which the flock was as poor as the pastor
Ou • division the amendment was carried by 105 to 55.
The 20th Clause was then as amended agreed to, as were
the three folio wing clauses.
On Clause 33, the douse divided on an amendment by
Lord Limerick, to entitle a landowner redeeming the rent'
charge to make a deduction oil account of p 'or-rates from
the redemption money, when the amendment was carried by
91 to 64.
Clause 33 was then agreed to, as were, with verbal amend-
!nods, Clauses 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 30, 40, and 41. Lord
Pitzwalter moved the rejection of Clause 41, but on a division
the clan.° was agreed to-by 146 to 22.
Clauses 42, 43, 44, 45, and after a long conversation on
the rights of deputy-regiatrars of cathedral corporations and
diocesan architects to compensation, Clause 46 was agreed
to, as were, with amendments, Clauses 47, 45, 49, and 50.
The subsequent clauses down to Clause 66 inclusive were
agreed to without amendment, except 52, which was ver-
bally amended. Clause 67 was agreed to as amended by
Lord Cairns, and their lordships adjourned.
In the House of Commons, the following bills were read a
thud tome and passed :—Aberdare and Aberamm Gas Bill,
/Sarum- lamdens 3 Estate 11511. Severn and Wye Railway aild
Canal Bill, Severn Navigation Bill, Walton on Thames and
Weybridge Gas Bill.
The Lord Mayor asked the Under. Secretary for the Colonies.
whether the agreement made with the Governor of Western
Australia to send out emigrants to that colony at the
expense of the Imperial Government had been entirely
Completed; and it not, what number of emigrants had still
to he sent out?
Mr Monsell said that an agreement had been made to send
out a number of free emigrants, subject to the condition that
the colony could absorb and provide for them. The returns
of the colony ahoived that 3,550 more emigrants were re-
quired, hut upon examination it was believed that this num-
ber was erroneous, and that 1,803 would be nearer the mark.
No emigrants wonld he sent out unless proof was given that

the colony could absorb them
The first of the 44 orders of the day on the paper was the
Dublin Freemen Bill, which stood for a second reading. Its
rejection was moved by Sir F. Ileygate, who urged that the
evidence and the report of Justice Keogh did not justify ez
put/ado legislation, and that its real origin was the animus
ot the Liberal party against the Dublin freemen.
A short discussion followed, and on a division the second
Trailing was carried by a majority of 120-246 to 126.
On going into Supply,
Mr. C. Rentinck called attention to the operation of the
twoo'clock morning sittings, which he contended, had so
aoridged the time at the divposal of private members that it
•as literally impossible for theni to carry any business
through. He complained, too, that of late years the Govern-
ment had constantly gone on encroaching on the privileges of
pirate members, and had not taken sufficient pains to keep
a House for them.
Mr. Crawford .leuhted whether the morning sittings had
really been of much service, since the private members had
been driven to encroach on the Supply nights, anti suggested
some restrictions on the facilities for " counting out " At
aii rather period of the evening Mr Newdegate hail com-
plained of the " count-out "of Friday, and drew from Mr.
Gladstone an expression of regret, and an acknowledgment
that it was the duty of the Government to keep a House.)
Mr Kinnaird, on the other hand, feared that, with the
preeeet mese of business, morning sittiege were indispens-
able ; but Mr. Peek agreed with Mr. Crawford that they
were inconvenient tu members engaged in business.
Mr. Gladstone was of opinion that the two o'clock sittings
had worked well, and that on the whole they had not very
much abridged the time at the disposal of the private mem-
bers. The only remedy was to increase the number of hours
in ada, and with the immense maim of business pressing
co the House yearly increasing, und the greater part of
which necessarily paned through the haude of the Govern-
merit, the only alternative to morning sittings was longer
Se/4110116
Mr. Gregory suggested a system of morning sittings earlier
In the Session Mice a week for sub tumble. as Supply; and
}mile Selwireiblietson also made borne mum-Zs on the hard-
to private members.
toe House then went into Committee of Supply, and 11
votes in Class 1. (Public Works and Buildings) of the Civil
Service Estimates were agreed to.
In Committee of the e hole House, the Martinis of Har-
tingten brought in his Money Bill for completing the purskase
of the telegraphs. Premising that the basis of the arrange-
ment of last year was twenty years' purchase of the net
pulite up to June last, he explained the steps taken by the
Post.offiee authorities to ascertain these pr Rts and the
Valor of the stock to be token over. The chief result
of these had been to reduce the claims of the Tele-
graph Compantee from £7,032,977 to £3,715,047, an abate-
ment of £1,320,530, and of this £5,220,109 would be for
the Purchase of profits, and £494,570 for other items.
'The purchase of the rights of the Railway Companies
he put at £700,000, the expense of extensions at £300,000,
and, Maiming compensations to small companies, necessi-
tated by the monopoly clause which the bill would contain,
he ealculated the whole coot of the transfer at £6,750,000.
'f he inquiries of the Post-office showed that the business et
the Telegraph Companies was rapidly and steadily increasing
—ln one cue at lei per cent., aid in another at 72 per cent.
Der annum; but calculating the average increase at lo per
cent., this Mon of £6.750,1u0 Would represent not 20, but
only 17( years' purchase of the profits of logy. The
menet reeenee he put at £673,038. and the expenditure
at £755,04, giving a Let profit of £314,354; and the interest
On £6,750 0011 at 4 per cent. being £270,000, and at 3,} per
cent. £270,330, ii, the one case there would be a surplus of
£44,000, aml in the other of £71,000. The bill would give
power to raise the purchase money by Exchequer bills or
bonds, or by the creation of consolidated stock or terndrianle
anbuitiee, and he anticipated that It would be raised at the
loner rate of 3i per cent., so that the surplus would be
7, 000. Ile went with Wens minuteness into tine details of the
estmatee of revenue and expenditure, and un.ler the first
head he calcolated that by the revision of tariffs and addi-
famlitiee the nuni nee of meevages would he raised from
6.25.000 annually to 0,015,000, which, at an avereee rate iif
le. A. would idee an minuet revenue of £514,234. The revenue
from Continetiml and Atlantic telegraphs be estimated at
1:7109,604, from private wires at £25,, 00, and from transude-
Mee of news at £25,000. After aesuring the Ilouse that the
estimates had all lieen framed on, the most moderate babas,
he Cacluded by a justification of the monopoly clause, men-
tioning among other arguments that the number of offices
would be increased from one in 17,900 to one in 6,000 of the
population.
Alter some remarks from Mr. Hunt; Mr. Crawford, and
Mr. Maelle, the resolution* on which the bill lota be founded
were agreed toe