The Stourbridge Observer, Cradley Heath, Halesowen & District Chronicle.
Stourbridge, West Midlands, England, 1883-02-24 00:00:00

Carey's testimony has caused great consternation
among the Irish in New York.

On Monday the prisoners who appeared on Saturday
were again placed in the dock, and the proceedings
were renewed with the cross-examination of Carey by
Messrs. Walsh and Mamie, solicitors for Timothy
Kelly and George Smith.—We take the following
account of the days proceedings from Vie limes of
Tuesday
The magistrates sat punctually at twelve o'clock, and the
prisoners were brought in. They entered the dock with a
firm, bold step and shook hands with each other when they
were all assembled. Joe Brady was first to enter, and his
companions were James Mullett, Henry Rowles, Thomas
Martin, Timothy Kelly, Peter Carey, E. .M'Caffrey, Edward
O'Brien, Joseph Hanlon, Lawrence Hanlon, Peter Doyle,
Wm. Moroney, Daniel Delaney, Joseph Mullett, Daniel
Curley, George Smith, Michael Fagan, Patrick Delaney,
James Fitzharris, Thomas Doyle, Thomas •Caffrey, and
Joseph Smith. John Dwyer was not present, being ill in the
infirmary.
The charge against them was again read, "that they, with
others, did conspire, confederate, and agree to murder certain
public officials of the Government and others, and that in
pursuance of the said conspiracy they did, on the 6th May, 1882,
feloniously, wilfully, and of their malice aforethought, kill
and murder Lord Frederick Cavendish and Thos. H. Burke,
and, in further pursuance of the said conspiracy, they did on
the 27th November, 1882, feloniously cut, stab, and wound
one Dennis J. Field, with intent to murder.

When James Carey entered the court he was saluted with
a chorus of jeers, such as " How are you, Jeml"" Well,
jem I " and some hitses, When Carey took his seat in the
witness-chair,

Mr. Murphy, Q.C. said—There is order to be preserved in
the dock as well as in Court. I shall ask that there be only
seven men placed in the dock at a time. Some course must
be pursued in order to preserve order. .
Carey was then examined by Mr. Walsh, solicitor, on be-
half of Timothy Kelly and E. M'Caffrey, as follows :

You joined the Fenian organization in 1861 /--I did. When
I joined the Fenian Brotherhood I was sincere. I had no in-
tention of betraying my comrades until they betrayed me.
Some of my comrades were less sincere. I was in the Dublin
Directory a portion of the time. I was never a member of the
Supreme Council. A. report that I said I was is incorrect. I
was about 18 years connected with the Fenian Brotherhood.
I was connected with it from 101 to 1878. I was not trea-
surer all that time. From 1869 to IS7B I was treasurer, with
the exception of about six months. During that time
the funds came in slowly. Before I joined the Fenian
Brotherhood I was a member of the Society of St. Patrick.
My object in joining the Fenian Brotherhood was to
assist In separating Ireland from England. It was not
from any selfish object I joined. It was not from personal
ambition. It was not to make money; it was for the good
of Ireland.

Did these men who were associated with you take the same
view ?—I am not answering for anybody but myself.
Did you believe it was for the good of Ireland ?—I do not
know.

Were these otlier men ever in a police-court before f—l do
not know. I considered them to be decent, honest men.
Some of them were traders. I cannot say their object was
the same as mine. I cannot answer for their object. In
1861 1 Was earning nay day's wages. I earned Is. a day. In
1879 I ceased to be a member of the Fenian Brotherhood. I
became a Town Councillor a few months ego. I resigned my
treasureship of the Fenian Brotherhood I was not called
upon to resign. Niy reason for resigning was a personal matter,
I was offended by some of the members of it They did not blame
me for not aceounting for thp money ; it vies from a disagree-
ment gave up the tepai,nrership. It tms wR,h the object ef
serving my country I joined the havincibles. At that time
Ireland was in a very bad state. The Coercion Bill had
passed and some of the popular leaders were in prison.
Parnell, Dillon, and others were in prison, and the right of
public speech was prevented. Any man might be arrested
without warning and thrown into prison. It was because I
despaired of any coustitional means of saving the country
that I joined the Society of the Invincibles. There would
not be so many recruits only for that. I had no personal
animosity against Earl Cowrer or Mr. Forster, and, as

far as I know, none of the men in the dock had any
feeling of personal animosity against those gentle-
men. They were simnly bound to obey their orders
according to the oath. The violation of that oath was death.
I was astounded when I heard that it was Lord Frederick
Cavendish who was killed. I had no idea that gentleman
was in the park at all that day, and not one of the men in
the park that day had a remote idea that Lord Frederick
Cavendish was to be there. I had been a member of the
association called the Irish Home Manufacture Association.
I remember moving at a meeting to suspend the standing
orders; that was in November. I meant it honestly.
There was the affair in Abbey-street on Saturday night,
and the attack on Mr. Field on Monday night, and this was
on Tuesday night.

Do you consider it a mistake to have assassinated Lord
Cavendish ?

Witness: Well, I think it was. had nothing whatever
to do with that. I made up my mind to give information
when every one else did it. That was in prison.

Cross•examined by Mr. M'Cnne : There was a meeting of
that association after the Field affair. I was, on November
28, chairman of that association. At that time I did
not propose a resolution condemning the recent outrages
In the city. I suggested that there should be one, and
that suggestion was not adopted by the meeting. I was
not at that time a member of this Invincible organization.
I was a member of the Tuvincibles before that meeting,
but had ceased to be a member. I ceased to be a mem-
ber at the end of June; at least, I tendered my resig-
nation in June, 1882. That resignation was not fully con-
firmed. Though it was not fully confirmed, still I did not
continue to be a member of it. I continued to be a passive
member of the organization. Ido not know who it was that
had the peculiar privilege of confirming the resignation.
My resignation was confirmed at the end of September or
the first week of October—by whom I don't know. It was
by "No. 1." I gave it in at Blacirrock. My occupation pre-
viously was a contractor. When I was canvassing the electors
to become a Town Councillor I stated publicly that I did not
go in upon political principles I went in for the good of
the working men of the city. Very little money was spent
at the time on my behalf in canvassing the electors. The
man Smith that I refer to as being in the park on the sth
of May was Joe Smith. When asked the question on Satur-
day with regard to George Smith I did not hear him speak
out from the dock and say he never saw me before till he
saw me in prison. He was not in the park at all on the 6th
or 6th of May. lam not prepared to swear that I saw him
that day.
Mr. Murphy: I want to ask you a question. You stated
that, so far as you know, the men associated with you had no
personal animosity against these men marked out for assess'.
ration.—Witness : Certainly not,

When did you resolve on the assassination of Mr. Burke?
—When we read in the Freeman's Journal on the 2nd of
May that all the officials in the Castle should be removed.
(Witness here produced from his pocket a copy of the
Freeman of the date mentioned.) We got the order on
the 3rd.

The cross-examination having concluded, the deposition
was read over to the witness.

On reaching that portion where the witness said Mullett,
M'Caffrey, "No. 1," and he often met, Carey said he had
read over a report of his evidence, and that Mullett was in
prison at the time.
Dr. Webb asked that the information as it originally
stood should be read over before this was struck out. .

The Clerk read out that portion to the effect that Mullett,
M'Caffrey, "No. 1," and witness often met.
Dr. Webb: The witness has just stated that he has been
resding over his informations as they appear in the Press.
We have read them over and over, too, and we discover that
Mullett was in prison at that time, and therefore the evi-
dence could not be correct. Therefore I submit the witness
Is not at liberty on an essential point like that, on reeon-
sideration, to alter what he has deliberately stated, merely
• because on subsequently reading his information he found
he would be hit on that point. I submit the prisoners
should have the benefit of that discrepancy in his evidence,
and that the matter should stand as it originally stood.

Mr. Murphy: It is quite possible that he might be hit,
as Dr. Webb says, on that point; but the only persons
who could hit him on that point would be Mullett or
M'Caffrey. If No. 1" is produced to hit him on that point,
well and good, of course. It is necessary and essential that
the information should be read over to the witness in order
that he may correct any mistake he has made by error or
otherwise. if Dr. Webb is able afterwards to hit him on
that point, let him do it, and we shall perhaps aid him in
the production of "No. 1."
Dr. Webb: Let him add to his information if he likes, but

not alter it.
Mr. Keys: He may say now, on reconsideration, that "In
my belief Mullet was not there."
Mr. Murphy: Of course. What are the informations read
over for, but to correct mistakes?
Mr. Keys Is makes just as much for you, Dr. Webb, as
against you.
Dr. Webb: All I ask is this, that the information given by
this man be taken consecutively. Let everything he says
appear, in order that we, who are the constitutional de-
fenders of the parties implicated by this man, may have the
benefit of the full information that he has given. And I
submit the words should not be expunged, but added to.
That clearly is what justice demands.
Mr. keys: I do not think there can be any objection to
that.

Mr. Murphy assented to this.
The reading of the depositions was then continued. At
the sentence—" At these meetings we discussed about Earl
Cowper, Mr. Forster, and Mr. Burke, and the beat way
of removing them. We gave most prominence to Mr.
Forster. '
Mr. Murphy said the witness had this ramming corrected
that himself, and stated that Mr. Burke's name was not
mentioned till subsequently.

Dr. Webb: I object to any change in the depositions.
The information of the witness has been extracted from
him already by the Crown counsel, and it would be perilous
in the extreme if a witness is on the alert, as this witness
has shown himself to be, that he sbouid be allowed to
make a correction that is not suggested by himself but
by counsel for the Crown. We have a right to say for
the priseners, "That is what you said," or "Did you
say that ? " But that is not the privilege of the Crown
counsel, particularly when the witness, bestowing all his
attention to the deposition, makes no exception to it as
read by the ofileer of the Court. Our only safety here is
to see that everything be done regularly and in order, and
that there is no infringement of principle, and I submit,
with great deference to my learned friend, that there is no
necessity ; this is far too serious a matter for professional
rivalry or temper.

Mr. Murphy: I submit the witness should be asked what
exact arrangement was made to substitute Mr. Burke's name
after Mr. Forster left.
Mr. Woodlock : On the last day the witness stated that at
their meetings they discussed Mr. Forster, Earl Cowper, and
Mr. Burke, but that the first names mentioned to them were
Mr. Forster's and Earl Cowper's, and that Mr. Burke's was
subsequently substituted for Mr. Forster's.
Mr. Murphy: That is quite right. Mr. Forster was to be
first. He was to have precedence, as it was expressed, and
the witness stated that Mr. Burke was afterwards intro-
duced by themselves. It is perfectly right to state that at
the meetings the propriety of removing Earl Cowper, Mr.
Forster, and Mr. Burke was discussed. That is my recol-
lection of it. Mr. Forster and Earl Cowper were mentioned
the first, and then Mr. Burke was introduced, the witness
stating, "We ourselves introduced Mr. Burke."
Dr. Webb: It Is of the utmost importance that this matter
should be fully explained.
Mr. Murphy: I will leave it altogether in the hands of
the Coast.
Dr. Webb: My point is that if there is to be any alterations
in the deposition, it should be at the suggestion of the wit-
ness, and not at the suggestion of counsel, and that the de-
position should remain as taken down by the officer of the
Court. If any alteration is to be made, it should be
appended to the end of the deposition.
The Court and counsel for the Crown assented to this.
At a subsequent passage in which the witness said, "I
afterwards saw the persons there who were to execute," the
last words were objected to as containing only an observation
of the witness.
Mr. Murphy consented to have the words expunged. The
witness having stated that it had been arranged at previous
meetings that Mr. Forster was to be assassinated, it was
enough that Carey swore that he saw the men whom he named
there after the arrangements,
At a subsequent part the witness referred to the fact that
Mr. Forster's carriage had been watched, and it was found
he was not in it, wad he added, "If he had been he would
not be alive."
Dr. Webb objected to the remark, as it was only matter of
inference, and it was struck out.
When the clerk read out the statement by witness that he
'knew that cheques had been sent by the Land League to the
prisoners, one of the men in the dock exclaimed, "The Sus-
tentation Fund,"
After the passage was read in which Carey referred to the
article in the Freeman of the 2nd of May, and stated that
next day they received orders to remove Mr. Burke, Mr.
Murphy asked from whom did they receive the orders.
Witness: From No. 1. The witness further amended his
information by adding, "1 do not think No. 1 ever met
James Mullett."
JOSEPH NEILL, a labourer, said: On the 6th May I was
coining into town in the evening with a man named
Patrick Murray. We came down the main road from the
Phcenix. I was between the Phoenix and the Gough statue at
twenty-five minutes to seven o'clock. I noticed a cab and
horse standing there on the right-hand side as you go into
town, opposite the Viceregal Lodge. I saw a man near the
horse. 1 sea the man in the dock whom I saw there—the
man with a blue muffler. (Identifies Fitzharris.)
Cross•examined by Dr. Webb: I have been here nearly
since the investigation started.
Re-examined : I recognized Fitzharris the very moment I
saw him in the dock last Saturday week.
Mr. Murphy having asked that Joe Brady, Timothy Kelly,
Patrick Delaney and Thomas Caffrey be placed in front of
the dock,
GEORGE GoDpEll, who was examined on a former day, was
recalled, and deposed as follows: I stated in my former
examination that [was entering the Chapelizod gate when I
heard a car approaching. The road is very crooked there—
in fact, it forms the letter "5," or very nearly so.
Counsel : Did you see so as to recognise the faces of these
four persons on that car?
Dr. Webb objected to the question on the ground that the
witness had said he only recognised one prisoner.
Mr. Murphy read the depositions, which stated that he
saw two men on the car and only recognized one in the court.
Mr. Murphy observed that the second man had not then
been arrested.
The witness was then directed to say if he saw any othe
man on the car. He identified Thomas Caffrey, and said that
his hair and beard were much longer when he saw him on the
car, and he had on a soiled white muffler, apparently a
woollen or worsted muffler.
The witness, who was the last produced for the prosecu-
tion, was not cross-examined.
Mr. Murphy, QC. : My learned friend and I now pro-
pose to close the inquiry before your worships, and to apply
to have the prisoners committed for trial, all with the
exception of Patrick Whelan and Joseph Smith. I think
that you gentlemen who appear for them need not trouble
yourselves about them at present, It is stated that
Joseph Smith did not know why he was brought there.
Joseph Smith says eo himself, and we believe him, and we
will accept his account of the transaction when we think it
necessary to bring * forward. It is not necessary for me
now to refer to the evidence. Of course, it vu with great
regret that we adopted the evidence of any witness who
could be looked upon in the light of instigator or per-
petrator of this tragedy. But it has been done with a due
regard to public safety and to the public alone, and I trust,
from the course that has been adopted, that the Executive
will have it in their power thoroughly to penetrate the
organisation out of which these terrible crimes have sprung,
and to make amenable to justice those who, ar, leaders and
principals, were concerned ae well b the plotting and insti-
gation as in the perpetration of these assassinations. With
respect to the man Patrick Whelan, he has stated—and I am
glad to say we fully believe it—that he had no part at all in
this organization which has been the immediate subject of
our inquiry. The evidence given against him as to another
charge—that of-treason-felony—ii very strong and conclu-
sive. We shall ask that he be committed oi that aharge,
but we are ready to accept a reasonable Offer of bail for his
appearance. It may be necessary to alter the informations
so far as they relate to him.
Mr. Tineler pressed the magistrates and Crown counsel to
accept the prisoner's own recognizance, observing that he
was shut out from all communication with his employer or
his friends ; that he had lost his employment, and had no-
where to ge when released from gaol but to the poor-lionse;
and there could be no doubt that he would be forthcoming
when called on to thee his trial.
Mr. Murphy reminded the bench of the serious character
of the charge of treason-felony against him, and the fact that
his place was a IT nlar arsenal in which rifles, revolvers,
cartriges,
,and daggers were stored, De thought the Crown
would be dealing very mildly with him in consenting to his
being admitted to bail himself in £5O and two sureties in £25
each.
The magistrates observed that it was necessary to.; tem
to put on record the fact that they acceptad bail with the
consent of, and-at the request of, counsel for the Crown, as
the Act of Parliament was very distinct.
Mr. Murphy said he would accept the responsibility.
Mr. Woodlock : With respect to Joseph Smith, he is to be
discharged altogether. Is that your application?

Mr. Murphy: No. It would be very inconvenient to him
H he were discharged.
Mr. Woodlock : Then, with respect to all the others, ycu
ask us to commit them for trial on the charge of conspiracy
to murder and murder.
•

Mr. Murphy: On the charge of conspiracy and the overt
acts that followed it. I should be known that any one who
enters Into a conspiracy, if overt acts follow, is guilty.
Mr. M'Cune asked to have bail taken for George Smith,
but Mr. Murphy declined to agree, and the magistrates
refused to do so.

D. Keys observe that it would be necessary to read the
depositions over from beginning to end, and it was arranged
that this should be done on Tuesday.

Dr. Webb then said he thought it right at the close of
this momentous investigation to express, on the part
of those who were intrusted with the duty of de-
fending the prisoners from this terrible charge, their
appreciation of Ils constant endeavour on the part
of the Court to secure a patient and impartial hearing on
behalf of the accused and of the uniform courtesy,
Indulgence, and patience exhibited towards their counsel.
They. had no intention at this stage of the proceeding of
opening their case, or revealing their defence, or comment-
ing upon the evidence. Mr. Murphy had intimated the
nature of the policy which he had ventured upon pursuing
and the nature of a large portion of the evidence on which
the Court would be called upon ta commit the prisoners
for trial. The man Carey objected to being called an in-
former, and technically he was correct. Ile was not an
informer, but he was infinitely worse. He was an accom-
plice. [The prisoner Curley here exclaimed, "lie was a
principal."] He would ask that there be no interrup-
tion from any part of the court. Counsel then quoted
passages from Taylor on Evidence and from Philips to
justify the observation that Carey was an infamous wit-
ness. He disclaimed the imputation of having used any
language unbecoming his profession. He then, addressing
the Press, said : I would appeal to all the nobler mem-
bers of the Press and remind them of their duty. Public
indignation in this case requires no fanning. The public
mind in this case requires not to be instructed, or, if there
Is any instruction which it requires, it is this—that this is
a pending trial; that, though they may be overshadowed
by the terrible cloud of suspicion, yet, in the eyes of the
law, the prisoners in the dock are still Innocent; that any
attempt to prejudice the fair trial of these men is an out-
rage upon public justice; that any comment upon the
evidence should be regarded as a high contempt of the
criminal jurisdiction of the Queen. And, appealing to the
whole public, I say this—if justice requires any sacrifice to
be made upon her altar, let the sacritice be made with
judicial solemnity and judicial awe.
Mr. Woodlock ; It will be necessary that all the deposi-
tions should be read over in the presence of the prisoners.
It will be the merest formality. The witnesses will be here,
and these will not be any corrections.
Dr. Webb : As the tree has fallen so it must lie.
The Court then adjourned to Tuesday.

The Dublin Correspondent of The Times, in noticing
the day's proceedings, says that when James Carey
was leaving the Court Lawrence Hanlon cried
out, "Won't you leave us a lock of your hair ? "
and the whole party enjoyed the joke. Another
said, "Don't go that way ; " and a third, "What
about a cocked hat ? "—alluding to his civic cos-
tume—and again they laughed. While the wit-
ness Godden, who was recalled to identify Caffrey,
was passing by the dock, Brady jeered at him, and
made some remark to Carey's brother, who was beside
him, aid to others, who seemed to relish the fun of it.
Delaney now had the same grave and dejected look
which he has exhibited throughout the inquiry.

The wife of James Carey was interviewed on Mon.
day. We make the following extracts from the
report : _

She states that her husband is about 38 years of age.
His father, Francis Carey, was a working bricklayer
from Celbridge, county Kildare, but the subject of the
present sketch was born in Dublin. He is married,
and has•seven children living, while two died. He has
been 18 years married. His eldest child is a boy 16
years of age; his last born is only two months old.
His wife was a Miss Margaret M'Kenny. He has two
brothers and three sisters. One of his brothers,
Francis, is a master builder, and occupies a respec-
table position in his native city. His other brother,
Peter, who has been charged with complicity in the
assassination conspiracy, Is a foreman bricklayer, in
the employment of Mr. Meade, the former em-
ployer of the approver. His three sisters are married,
one living in San Francisco, another in Australia, and
the third resides in Dublin. James Carey was in
Meade's employment for eighteen years, after which
he started in a builder's business on his own
account in Dublin. He was always an active and
attentive workman, and in the building trade
he was generally selected as spokesman at all
political and social gatherings at which that trade had
a representation. Since he set up trading on his own
account he has been fairly successful, and had some
rather large contracts, working as a rule for public
bodies, such as convents and poor-houses. Carey at
present holds considerable house property for a man
in his position. He also rents from his former em-
ployer, Meade, a large number of houses in dif-
ferent parts of the city, which he lets in
tenements. Mrs. Carey says positively that nntil
her husband entered the witness-box last Satur-
day she had no idea of his becoming an approver.
Since his imprisonment she has had no communica-
tion whatever with her husband, and only caught
glimpses of him as he entered and left the
court. Mrs. Carey states that her husband was
a member of the Committee of the Home Manu-
facturers' Association since its formation, while he
was a prominent member of the Amnesty Society.
As an evidence of the interest he took in Irish ad-
vancement, she stated that he held ten shares in the
late Irish National Exhibition. The afflicted woman
declared that her husband was a loving father, and to
her always very kind, while he was eizemely tem-
perate, and she further stated tint he was never absent
from his home except during his incarceration as a
Auspect under Mr, Foraters Act for a period of
elev, ,1 weeks. Mrs. Carey appears much careworn
and depreEiseci,