The Dorset County Express and Agricultural Gazette.
Dorchester, Dorset, England, 1879-07-15 00:00:00

THE COLLEGIATE SCHOOL DISPUTE.

FIRIDAY.
This morning the cress-examination of the Rev Talbot
Greases was resumed by Kr. Hastings. Action he said had
been rendered necessary by the threat of some of the bond.
holders to call in their bond,; and Kr. Talbot intimated
on his visit to him that they would probably have to sell
the buildings to pay them off.
You have known Mr. Talbot a great many yearn—Yes.
He was your churchwarden I—Onoe or twice.
And he stated at the meeting of the trustees what we
have heard that you said about being blessed with large
means, and your determination to spend eyery 6d. to turn
Elia out I—Yes.
Now did you not may that to him I—l did not
Nor anything like it did not.

DidiT:•; in any-1;;; ih;esten-i; hum him out I—l did
not.
. .

üow
wasn't there a good deal of excitad dismission
between you and Mr. Talbot at the beginning of this inter-
view t—Kr. Talbot was very excited.
Hadn't you made up_ your mind that Mb should bring
the boys back to St. Mary's wee very anxious that he
should.
Kr. Hastings than read the witneee's letter of November
Mb, 1174. to Dear Mr. Ells, in which he .aid althongh
he (Ellis) objected to Um school being under the Minister-
ial .uperviaio 04 tha Rector of St. Maria, the
at a dense
which provided for the attendance of the s St
Mary's (except on wet Sundays when he was at liberty to
go to Christchurch), aeon. 04th. trustees he should never
axpeen.l to waive.

At llinTy—ou were determined never to give it up!—
Yes. I was anxious not to.
NO. were you not so when Mr. Talbot called on you on
the 21s1 May. 18751—1 was very anxious. but if the
trustees bed agreed differest I would have consented. In
fact I was one of the first to propose to waive It. I had
not made up my mind Irrevocably on the subject.
But is it not • matter of fact that that was the only
lineation between you—this new agresment I—Oertainly
not. Mr. Ellis objected to our Unsocial arrangements.
But there were never any letters or suggestions u to Buff
—Mb. yel•
What trace have you of any such letter I—l haws not
the letters here, but the letters to the Secretary eri I alfilvir
it.
Bat you have never raised any each thing in your plead-
ings I—Mr. Ellis. engagement terminated in 11, and
during 1875 no real arrangement was arrived at, and during
that time letters were written in which be objected to the
financial arrangements of the trustees.
But wasn't the boys going to St Mary's the only
question between you I—l think not.
Was not that the only question Mr. Talbot CUM to you
about I—Yeg
. . .

th;tt—w. es the only object I—No, I think the main
object was to oak mato withdraw the inhibitiodand he (Yr.
Talbot) stared II I would withdraw it all personal sutra Dire-
mild would be at an end.

;;; it Tb7n the meetink took DO ;Mg ; did you
take two and•ivh•lf hour. oonsidesinz that I—l never wad it
did take two sod-s-hall hours, but it was • long manillas.
When Mr. Talbot told you the boys would he take to
Christchurch, did you not lay bow do I know that-- why
he's always about with that fellow R&111001• "—I did
not.

—fiothing wail mid about him t—l ham segue dine
recollection that something was mid about Mr. Ranaoto• ;
but! ur.iver said that fallow."

-711;e7Liii-nesa of your recollection does not permit you to
ray who said it I—No. Mr. Talbot might have said "
don't know that, as it would be further to his church,"
meaning Mr. Ransomo's.
Will you my you did not tell Er. Talbot that the bore
should go to fit. Mart's I—Very probably I said I wee
not prepared to waive the regulation.
Hid you refer at all ti your " means" at any of those
interviews I—Kr. Talbot told me that the probability was
that the buildings would be sold as the bondholders would
call in their mousy, and that probably Ellis's friends might
purchase the building. I replied that if the building
we. sold it would be by auction and that it wan quit...
competent for me to purchase them an for Mr. Ellis's
fries& That lathe only &Huai= I made, ai far.. I know,
L wry means.
Have you Widnes to the best of your recollection the exact
words you teed I—l have.
Did not you ask every member in the room to proposer
the resolution except Mr. Talbot —What I did trim this,
after a full diecuasiou Mr. Hansel 'Lydell rose and con-
demned strongly the conduct of the defendant (Ellis), and
stated that there appeared to him to be no other course
open be the trustees but to remove him from the head-
mastership. I believe I than enquired whether any of the
trustees wished to propose a distinct resolution for the
dismissal of Hr. Ellis. Some conversation then passed
between the various trustees present, and after that Kr.
"Lydell moved the resolution.
Did you put the resolution into his hand 7—No,
It was the resolution which had been brought ready
, written /—I can't swear to that.
But you have worn it 1-1 believe it was
1 Who do you soy brought this to the meeting I—Ey own
be is that it wee Mr. Maned gnat
you Meer you did not pat (tint. his handst—l believe
not, I have iio recolleetion to the bast of my memory. It
Is not is.., se Mr. Talbot has stated, that I put it into Mr.
Kimmel 'Lydell's hand and it le not tna• to ow I ',shad
tech one round the bible to second it. but they show, spa,
heeds.
What were Mr. lElia's "gross pervonalithe I" —He
charged me with want of truth and very bitter persamthket
el him.
What did he my I—l can't give the word,; they were
angry charm of want of truth and bittre hostility. He
said I had forbidden my curets to speak to him, and he
also indoAted in very unhandsome language with regard
to Hr. Eliot mowing him of treitorous or treacherous

That was atter Mr. Richard Eliot had repeated the
convened= at the Bank I—Decidedly so.
I believe be awned him of treachery in keeping back •
letter which he had sent to the trustees 1--I hare • dear
recollection 5.! that.

His Lordship • Do you gay that se &fact or brit:gluey I
—I fool morally 'certain of it
Did he at any time charge Yr. Richard Eliot with
keeping heck • letter I—He did.
When you say" morally certain" do you put it in this farm
as ring unable positively to say so /—Yes ; I should not
like to swear to it
' .

Crosem— --xamcniaon continued: Were there any other'
personalities I—l think these were the chief.
Did Mr. Ella say be would publish the correspondent m
—Tee; he threatened to expose me.
Ho being requested to send in his resignation was
equivalent to. dijmli. wee it not I—l believe so—it was
a more delicate way of putting it
De you recollect Mr. Pleydisil asking whether suns
arrangement could not be come to with Mr. Ellis, sad I
roar saying "Hush. husk it is too later could swear '
I never gave that answer, or ono to that effect.
And de you recollect Mr. Talbot thanking him for the
I do Dot,
'ICUS:. John Lynes, a retired clergyman, living at
Wsgnioetb, and one of the trustees, examined by Mr. I
said he was one of the Council meembled at the I
...tug in question. Before Mr. Ellis arrived ;he their-
Mr. Grew's% "specially cautioned us as members of
I the in no Why whatever to interfere with en,
I remarks Mr. Ms might make, end that little incident
confirms me in the statement, which I solemnly make,
no we...option whatever was offered Mr. Ellis during his
statensent.- When Mr. Dreams said "we can't go Into
thay. he was "morally oertale—(laneliter)--it was after
MY. Milts had made his statement When Mr. Ellis came
In he seemed under a little excitement, and when he left
sell suffering from great irritation, he tat the room, he
thought, rather rudely. With regard to the Middle I
School he affirmed there was no roavereka of it to the I
standard of the Collegiate School with regard to its I
teaching': sot cal, would be never bamboos. party to it,
but be would have opposed it most decidedly in every
way. Mr. =is stateming was made most completely I
sad entirely without lalntrnities from say ens in the
MOM There was an anali eallanteni object to view as the
geosectics of the welkin of the Middle Bohai sad Mr.

MU, at the impose of the Collegiate School and Kr.
Ellie. He had debentive in Um Collegiate School.
nothing whatever in the Middle School. AA to the alleged
Influence of Mr. (hearse, he would state that he WU
DtWer in any way ariflisenoed t.ohLrritt. '' He left me to my
own ideas, rehictions, and ta, with no other in-
fluence except that afforded indirectly by the fact that I
highly esteem him as • man and a clergyman, and highly
appreciate the work he is doing in Weymouth."
Croce-examined : You are • member of Mr. Oreaves's
congregation, I presume I—l am not.
You have been have not.
You live in his pa:Uhl—l do wit. (A laugh.)
It. considered that among other things Mr. Ellis kept
the trustees very much in the dark as to the distribution
of prism. H. remembered Mr. Pleydell getting up and
nuking • speech, endearing Mr. Ellis was not At to remain
at his post. Be remembered the fact because he got nn
his illl4l, which was =tune' with them. They generally
sat in their chairs and discussed matters. Mr. Ellis stid
he would not make any explanation as long as Mr. Miller
remained in the room, and—
Mr. Karalake : You say in your Interrogatories hit
manner was very violent I—l don't think "violent" is the
bee, adjective.
Can you say what were the gram personalities I—l coo'
eider it grossly personal to say what he did of our chair.
Man. but I judge more by his tone and manner. I was
vie 7 mucli—exosedingly grieved. I came to the =shine
beWiving from the b Atom of my heart that the matter
would be settled if Mr. Ellis woad only face Mr. Miller.
Nothing would have rejoiced me more if the two had
come and confronted each other, and I was perfectly
astounded when Mr. Ellis would not hear Mr. Miller.
—As regicide any warmth be could only judge by his own
state of mind. He was very distressed.
Oh, no doubt your state cif mind was calm and judicial.
Crossexamination orritioned
complaint &rabid Yr. Ellis in his treatment S 4 head-
master of the tuition or management, or internal discipline
of the school.
The Court then adjourned till Monday.

Mr. George Andrews, of the firm of Andrews,
Barrett, sad A we, solicitoni, of Weymouth,
was the first Wks.. examined. His evidence was
aim at eddy a repetition of that which has
so often bmn given before the Court lie denied that tlae
change of name of the Middle School involved any change
in the character of it, work- It wee untrue to say that
at the meeting of October the Mamma rrfesed to listen
to Ellis. He had ample time to make • proper,
not an angry statement; but he loft the room in • hid d
He was not aware of any scheme devised by Greavis to
remove Ellie from the beedmearterahip. There was no
" undue inflame:a' exercised over him by Grooved, nor be
believed over any of the others. He was certainly not
canvassed by him as to the way he should vote. Mr.
James Robertson, one of the trustee., ...not in court; he
was paralysed and it would Wye been cruel to ask him to
some. Cress-examined • In Kay, 11.6'5, he attended •
meeting and with Mr. Gres... and Sir lobo Clod. voted
for Mr. Ellis's &wised: Mr. George Mot and Mr.
Robert Eliot voting &must it. They had buys endeavour-
ing (or a 12 month to arrange term., louteueld notimoceed.
It was not in reference to the boys going to StiLary's ; that
had been conceded months previously. He prepared •
, resolution for the meeting of October. He had much to
do with pub/is meeting., but he was not aware of ever
haring prepared one before for the disclaims! of • public
officer. Ile did this at Mr. R. Eliot's request, but that
gentleman preferred one he had himself prepored,and that
one was the one that wee carried. Ile had heard Mr.
Ellis', and Mr. Talbot'. accoulat of this meeting, and he
did not agree with it. In fact Mr. Ell .s was in such an
excitedstete that he doubted if he could remember what
took place. He could scarcely speak sometimes.
Mr. Hastings: That's what be says; he was interrupted.
(Laughter.) In the discussion between Mr. Talbot and
Greaves relative to the expenditure of meow Mr. Talbot
got excited but ()reeves kept his temper wonderfully.
He (Meares): might however, have got • little warm
towards the end. Ellis charged him with writing a letter
to which he took exception, and was asked to produce it.
After pulling out a bundle and searching for it he said he
could not find it. At the same time that Mr. IL Eliot
said Mr. Ellis had made the statement in the Bonk he did
with regard to Kr. Grego& be (Mr. Eliot) said that Ellie
upon that owed= also gam him the lie. Witness was
reminded that Mr. Eliot had said nothing of this in his
examination, but be adhered to his statement He wee
liable with the others for the money expended on the
Melcombe Reeds School. There were no liabilities for the
Collegiate He did not consider this teaching of Greek in
• school a criterion of its being • classical school—ladies
sometimes learnt the Greek Testament If you taught a
Greek play bethought it would be. Mr. Robertson is •
magistrate and occasionally attends the meetings of the
Bench. He did not knew that he was out on board
• steamer Saturday.
Mr. John C. Maneel-Pleydell, a magistrate for the
county, and who had been high shwal. said he wee •
Cruet*. of the Generate School. He was present at the
meeting of the 16th October, ICJ He had not heard the
other witnesses gave their evidence. Mr. Pleydell then
favoured the court with his version of the proceed-
ing. In the course of it he said the whole of the arrange-
ments of the trustee, with regard to the Middle School
were objected to by Ellis, theme complaints were listened
to with the greatest &Mention and no interruption was
offered him. Then a personal discussion arose between
Mr. Ellis and Mr. Eliot, what really was said he could
not tell, it took place so long ago. Afterwards Ellis
became very excited and was called to order by Mr.
Greaves, and that was the only time he was interrupted.
He (witness) was not influenced_ by Mr. Gnaws in voting
for the defendant's dismissal ; Its had had no conversation
1 with him. After the meeting was over he said to Mr. R.
Eliot he hoped the resolution teas not final, but that they
would be hble to come to terms, and he also expressed the
same feeling, saying he not only hoped so but believed so.
The course he took with reference to the resolution was
to protect the debenture holders,sis he thought the Intermits
. of the school were being imperilled front the way in
which thinge were going on.
Cross-examined by Mr. Baiting.: As one of the trustees
of the school he had never any complaint against Mr.
Ellis—not in the least, nor had he ever heard of any with
to his position beadingter. Preview to Mr.
regard
making his statement, Mr. Greaves told him he must
confine himself within the limits of the subject matter of
the meeting. He could not recollect exactly what toot
place when the stories of the bank and Mr. Talbot were
told—there was such • hubbub and confusion. Mr.
Grooves denied the statements, to the" moan.," and then
Mr. Talbot repeated it with expletives. Mr. Greases did
not get excited—in fact, he was quite pleased to as. him
keep his temper so well, after the gross insults put upon
him. .

—..—
goeetioned as to the " grow penenalitiee " o( Mr. Ellis,
he said he meant by that, Mr. Ellis "rebutted '' several
thing' stated by Mr. Grieves; the way i.n which he
addressed him was certainly not " courteous.
"

4;_
atings: I am eorry to say that doesn't convey
anuch to me; whet were the gross porsonalitiesf--Charges
against Kr. Graves.
If they had been true would you still have thought it
grossly personal to have made them I—Yee, I should.
Were they made before or after Mr. Eliot had made his
charges against Mr. Ellis. and Mr. Talbot against Mr.
Greavee i—Oh after, certainly.
If Mr. Greene or anyone had proposed that Mr. Elia
should have been retained and an amusement come to,
be would have voted for it--in fact, he thought it was quite
within Mr. Ellis's power to have brott this about.
Failing that, he looked upon the resolution ail the natural

Thii wee the whole of the evidence, Mr. Dickenson said,
heihro=tscall
then addressed his lordship on behalf of
the defendant After the lengthened time the cam had
occupied, and the patient bearing it had received, he
should not feel it right to beeper upon his lordship's
attention, except for • few momenta. It would be a waste
of time to go into the minute differences between the
evidence of one witness and another, for his friend on the
other side no doubt from inadvertence, had not thought
it worth while to cross-examine Mr. Ellis upon some
points upon which he and Mr. Greaveis witnesses were at
yeriame. But the real question was this—What were the
positions of the parties when they went into the Bank
wean:, October 16, 1877? At that period there seemed to
have been three very scum members of the Council—Mr.
Gramm, Mr. Andrews, and Mr. Richard &lot With
regard to Mr. Greases, it had been abundantly proved
that—certainly on the Nth May, 1.75, at least—he enter-
tained the very strongest possible opinion with regard to
the subject of the boys attending St. Mary's rather than
Christ Church, in which, to use the words of his letter of
the 24th May, a young and inexperienosd member of the
ministry officiated. It was • subject of regret at all
events to him, that Mr. Ellis did not value his ministry
more. And he thought it must be obvious to any
impartial mind that that was the spirit which filled Mr.
Dreams throughout. True it was that, premed by hie co.
trombone he did consent to the alteration in the agreement
of January, 1976, as to the attendance at church; but it
was a matter of common sense and observation that
one could not pereuede a man mount his will,
and there could not be a doubt that through-
out he entertained the same feelings. It must
not be forgotten that the letter in which he
said he reals a final effort to restore peace and
withdraw the Inhibition, also contained an intimation le
ambiguous terms that if Mr. Ellis did not himself elect to
attend St Mary's it would be the duty of the trustees to
submit the resolutions and his decision to some arbi-
trator or at any rate that the meeting of the bond-
holder, was regarded as a menace, and had left the
trustees no alternative but immediate legal action. What
was the fleet thing that was done by Meows. Gramma
Andrews, and It Eliot after the new agreurent had been
entered into? Why to change the name of the Middle
School under circumstance. which, rightly or wrongly,
led Kr. Ellis to think that a name meant a great deal
more than it did. Now, coupling with that the facts that
in 1973 previous Yr. asked for a change of name,
and upon Mr. Ellis protesting it was disallowed, and then
the change was made without saying a word to Mr. Ellis
on the subject, he thought it would sufficiently indicate
the sort of spirit which actuated the three plaintiff, he
had named in the conduct of that matter. Than, as to
Mr. Ellis' letters, he contended there was nothing what-
ever improper in them. The one containing the passage
that he paid his rent under protest MY the only ono
which, in Mr. Lmees judgment, was of an offensive
character. Mr. idea evidently was that if he did
not at once utter some protest whist what he oonaidared
a trench of agreement, he would be told afterwards that
he ought to have spoken at the time. The fact that the
triumvirate, Mr. Dreams, Mr. Andreae', and Mr. Eliot
took upon tbennielves to return to Mr. Ellis a letter which
he had addressed to the trustee., he said, wad an indica-
tion of animua which he inked his lordship not to over-
look. The reason suggested by Mr. Miller in the box for
inserting the advertisement with the words, "the
modern side of a public school," that he wished It to be
understood that it was not a classical school, wee not
altogether satisfactory. Anyone who had been to • public
wheel would know there wee very much more than that
meant. It meant that a clams of education was Imparted
such as would be mat with at Winchester, or at Harrow,
or any of the great public schools, and that would un-
doubtedly change the character of the tuition- And they
had the evidence of Mr. Miller that there was that change,
What was Kr. Dreams' duty on receiving elm mmplaintt
Why, to have called a meeting of the tru•thes at NNW
Instead of which he put it of for seven or eight maths.
They meld not fail to me the feeling evinced in the
matter, however much Marrs. (Smarm, Andrews, and
Eliot might chows to euphonies it. Then Mr. Ellis wee
told he had not paid his rent. Well, his reply was that
the wrens,/ generally inked him for It Then that he
had not furnished • list of the boys. Well, that had not
been done for 10 years, the numbers being over the to. for
whom there was • capitation fee. But there was also the
fact that the number' were sent in a communication
forwarded to Mr. (heaves, which that Jgentlemen with his
usual returned unread. Up to the 16th of
octopi, he where was there any line. of newt
-
zoo., to the enehomty of the trustees There was not • •
tittle of evidence to support such a charge It was
entirely disprove ! by Mr. Lyn.. and Mr. Playdell, who
said not only that they had not a single complaint to
make mainst Mr. Eltis, but further had never heard of
any. What pared at that meeting? The resolution was
put into the bands of Mr. Pleydell, the most good.
natured man in the room, and he seconded it, evidently
without the slightest idea of what the result was to be.
He put that cut and dried resolution to put a stop to what
he considered a disagreeable meeting. Mr. Lynes bed also
told them that until he heard Mr. Miller's evidence Intl.,
, box he did not know what was the dispute between jon,
1 and Mr. Mts. So that there they had five trustees out of
seers who we, to pair meteors, unite unfitted for the
minim duty for which they were called togetherPleydell said he intended the resolution as • means of
intervention between Mr. F2lis and the trustees, but how
was it treated by Mr. Eliot after he had heard what Mr.
Pleydell had said? A mere forma copy and nothing snore
imoo In that 1
h.dlotorusetioc in
.7.trezhistotannitd:iboi:sec....liwlyrfa.k:Elim'euyp;boy.c.rrybacklast!thi!rnmaidbino: oalf
the rector of the parish, of the beaker of the rector. and
of the solicitor to the rector. With regard to Mr. Ellia's
allegations in his counter claim u to thisoanvereation. th
ry
k upon paying
hreff-e-gitinee What difference was the;* whether it w
taught in school hours or out It must clash with th.: emir school, and the therms, in the number, of the one
biansediately sites. GM the demean in the await= el the

__.__.............• other, Mowed that itthere--
said that Mr. Ellis had substeatiated his mei Let feWin
made in hi. defence that be Lad been iajorod by -
conduct of the trustee', sod that he vise satilledtha
receive on the counter claim. That was a man le
but what was of material sad vital icapertanc. to Isr;
Ellis WY that he should know that no single met • could be made amines him as a meter eitheriZAl
tuition or the internal maimgement of the dime,
the bug period of years which he preeided ever it
Whatever might be the result of the action he felt
„thdied Hie Lordship wool d take that Mew. He ao.
hot 11, stated that whatever may be the mono& opm which they heed their dismissal of Mr Ellis. they ere.
not anythiag like resentment of the authority of tao
tn.t.... or tacapeorry, ineMcleacy. or mi•coaduct ix my
respect as heed-master, acid thst, di...nisei er L, ...
from that school, it was simply and solely bee... 1
certain number of trurees had eontrived no anboosity
which led to " want of harmony," and it was beanie es
that he hod been disguised, and not on account of eat
own whatever reflecting upon him eon or-hokum* a
clergyman, and • gentleman.
Mr. Wood, who appeared for Mr. Talbot, mole s soo remarks as to the position that gentlemen uo'opied m the
action and in the witness-box lie had suffned, he geog more than once from serious WM:MM. end therefore Hy Lordship would, be honed, maks allowance. for t
defective memory, for it was quits clear he lost his hem
In the box, and we unable to say prorisebt whether'
take. piam. With regard to the story be related of K.
Greeted' it mull be remembered that Mr. Clot first
introduced the apple of diecord into the assembly. igh.
Greene, when cross-examined. admitted • cooveretari
had taken place to the effect the h• au ~it. .
well able to boy the schools as K,. Ellie*. frimds. No.
that. he thought, woul 1 Moe that • couvereates al
the kind Mr. Talbot alleged had Yarn pia., mt Gt....
pitting Mem!' against the bondlioldm. It was hardly
pom tie Mr. Talbot could have invenkol my 444 expression or have dreamt it. He thought His Lome', would be slow in saying that Mr. Tallest we not richt ie
reetaiderdog these disputes good rearm for not vatic, 1,,,
Mr. Ellis'. dismissal.
His Lordship Men delivered