The Dorset County Express and Agricultural Gazette.
Dorchester, Dorset, England, 1858-06-15 00:00:00

TUESDAY.

- -
At the morning witting, the adjourned debate on the
third reading of the Church-rates Abolition Bill was
resumed by
Sir J. TRILAWNT who defended the ootine taken by
the supporters of the Bill.
Sir B. Saloom oppose the Bill, and moved to defer
the third reading for six months.
Mr. Pine seconded this amendment.
Hr. AILBOYD considered that the Bill was defective in
that, while it did an act of justice to Dissenters it per-
petrated an injustice to the Church. It, moreover,
enabled Dissenters to nominate churchwardens, a right
which should rest with the oongregation. There was
no necessity, he contended, for this wholesale confisca-
tion, and for handing over £300,000 a year to the land-
holders.
Sir J. GRAHAM thought it would be wise to relax the
Statute of Mortmaha, and enable the owners of lands in
fee and tenante for life to charge their estates for the
maintenance of the parish church. Hitherto, the
Church had had no reason to repent her reliance upon
the voluntary principle ; she had never yet called upon
her members to contribute to her necessities and found
them slow to respond. Although he had always re-
sisted the abolition of Church-ratee, he could not fight
the battle to the last extremity, but was ready to make
a concession for the sake of peace, and he should, there-
fore give his vote in favour of the Bill.
, dr. WALPOLI believed, and appealed to recorded
testimony in support of that belief, that oonscient ous
scruples were not the sole ground of objection to church-
rates—that there was an ulterior object, to fight the
question of an establishment on the field of church.
rates, and he was surprised and regretted that Sir J.
Graham should have joined in an opposition the real
object of which was to break up our ecclesiastical
establishment. . . .

Mr. AYRTON supported the Bill, insisting that there
could be no aomp-omise.
Mr. GLADSTONE Observed that if OhtlYCh-TAROA Were
abolished for the voluntary principle, tithes must be so
too, nor would • better principle be got by relaxing the
Statute of Mortmain. Some would be unable to charge
their &dates, some unwilling, and some would still plead
conscientious scruples. If the question was looked at
in • practical point of view, there need be no difficulty
In framing • scheme, in a spirit of conciliation, that
would not force consciences; but if there was to be no
oompromise, there would be difficulty.
Sir J. TRELAWNY having replied, upon • division, the
amendment was negatived by 266 to 203, and the Bill
was read a third time and passed.
In the evening, in reply to Mr. WISE,
Mr. S. FITZGERALD explained the oircumetance
under which the Minister to Tuscany had permission
to leave hia_poat.
Mr. H. BERKELEY repeated his annual motion for
leave to bring in • Bill to cause the votes of Perlis,-
mentary electors to be taken by way of ballot. He
founded his advocacy of the ballot, he said, by which he
meant emphatically secret voting, upon one sound axiom
—that Parliament had no right to create a funotionary
without giving to that functionary adequate protection
In the dischargept his clam. He contended that under
the present mode elections went for nothing, end the
nation was not fairly represented. He illustrated his
arguments by familiar examples of the application of
what be termed the "screw."
The motion was seconded by Mr. W. P. MARTIN, who
expressed his belief that the Ballot was not only a just,
but, as it appeared to be in Australia, a Conservative
measure.

'117.117 Earoounr maintained that the tranohise wu
a publio trot, and that all publio trusts ought to be
openly
owennemniud e
timidation end bribery, wiliadoloitt would d Diont
putroduoe evils of ite own ; the principle would work ill
for the public, and cause inisunderstandinp, jealoueles,
and heart•burninp.
Sir A. ELTOr supported the motion. There ohould,
he said, be no artilloial restraint upon the free lotion of
the voter. .. . . . . .

defied any one to show that there
would be any other result from the Ballot system ex-
apt that it would be perfectly impossible under it to
detect systemstie bribery.
Oeneral Tnoncsox observed that there was no wish
to prevent a voter from making his vote public ; all that
was desired was that the me of voting should be such
that the vote could not be known unless the voter
pleased.
Mr. HOPI denied that SUOMI had attended the ex.
periment of the Ballot, which had been tried repeatedly
In France. If introdued into England the Sret stone
would be laid of that edifice of oligarchy and deepolism
which existed in America.
Sir 0. Lune contended that in the United Slate*
the Ballot was not a system of secret voting. With ex-
action of one State, the votes taken by Ballot were
practically as public as in England ; the real difference
was that, in the United States, the Ballot being a Moe
of paper, is put into a box, and there is no authentic
and cadet record of the vote, so that there could be no
indictment for bribery. In other requite, voting in the
United States and in England was practically id-entail.
The Ballot did not secure universal secrecy in the
United States.
Mr. HARSH deseribed the working of the Ballot in
Australia, where, he said, it had produced not good,
but harm.
Mr. ATITON supported the motion. He argued that
the Ballot, if it would not extinguish, would cheek big-
buy, and would be more effectual in putting down in.
timidation. The Ballot proposed by Mr. Berkeley
would secure, not only secrecy but socountability.
Lord PALIIIRSTON could not concur in the motion.
The Ballot would not accomplish the object of secrecy,
and, if it did, it would convert electors into hypocrites,
and put an end to public) and party spirit in the
country.
Mr. BRIGHT would have this measure considered with
reference to the conditions of our own society, and he
insisted that this country, where there were so many in-
centives to undue influence, and so little power of re.
slating it, was of all countries that in which this ques-
tion ought to be fairly oonaidered, and if the remedy was
good, it should be applied. To maws of the population
the franchise would be of no use without the Ballot.
Was it not a fact, he asked, that in every petition for
Parliamentary reform the House was eked to include
the Ballot, and that at almost every public meeting held
for years past the establishment of secret voting by the
Ballot was made cardinal point Would the House
disregard this As the Ballot was no sawed principle,
but a mere matter of machinery, no member, he ob-
served, could be charged with inconsistency in consent-
ing to try this great experiment.
Mr. WALPOLE contended that in order to prevent the
corrupting intimidating influences exerted during elec.
tions there must be the means of detection and punish-
ment. He could not consent to the introduction of the
BilL .

Lord J. RusexcL considered that the change would
not be for the better, but for the worse. It was strange,
he remarked, that the advocates of the Ballot were not
able to show a completely satisfactory example that
where the Ballot was established there were more facili-
ties for dismission and greater liberty of choice than
under our own imperfect system.
Mr. BNRICELET having replied, the Mouse divided,
when the motion was negatived by 294 to 197.
Mr. Pam, obtained leave to bring in a Bill to encou-
rage and facilitate the erection and improvement of piers
and harbours in Great Britain and Ireland.
A discussion arose upon a motion of Sir J. ELPHIN•
STONE for a Select Committee to inquire into the opera-
tion of the law by which the property of Government,
In the boroughs of Greenwich, Chatham, Portsmouth,
Plymouth, Devonport, and other boroughs is rendered
exempt from local rates and taxes.
Mr. RUNT obtained leave to bring in • Bill to abolish
freedom from arrest in ease of members of Parlia-
ment.

The House adjourned at &quarter past 1 o'clock.

WEDNESD4Y.

The adjourned debate on the second reading of
the Tenants' Compensation (Ireland) Bill was re-
sumed by
Mr. Sergeant DEASY, who supported the Bill, arguing
that, although the legislation it proposed was exemp-
tions', Parliament was bound to legislate exceptionally
for Ireland in this matter, to remedy the abuses which
sprang from the poissession of irresponsible power,
and which, by creating a sense of insecurity, ob-
structed the flow of capital for the employment of
labour._ . _ _

--Mr—, *Donne, considering that the effect of this and
similar measures would be to interfere with the rights of
property, and to transfer property from one man to
another. declared his decided opposition to the Bill.
Mr. lifoNsitt supported the Bill. Praetically, the
reactions between landlord and tenant were different In
Ireland from what they were in any other country in
the world.
Captain Daus wee propared be support anything
like reasonable compensation to a tanank, but be thought
that the matter wee one for arbitration rather than
leffklatioui

Hr. Wiirrzninc declared that, in hie *aim, it
would be impossible to carry it out priaalV, and if
carried out it would be unjust, and more misehievous to
the tenant than to the landlord. He could not therefore
assent to the second reading.
Mr. fiLioutza having replied, and the House having
divided, the amendment of Biz J. Walsh, that the
eisoond reading be deferred for six months, was emboli
by 200 to 65; so the Bill is lost.
The House adjourned at 6 o'clock.

THURSDAY.
Mr. B. Frrsonlahu, in reply to Mr. Gregory, stated
that the independenoe of Herat had been fully recog-
nised by the Persian Government_ ; and
Lord STINLIT, answer to Sir B. Perry, said that
no oalcial document' whatever had been received by the
last mail relating to the pacification of Onde. He
believed a private letter from Lord Canning had been
received, addressed to the Chairman of the Court of
Directors of the Ent India Company.
On the motion of Mr. FITZBOY, • copy of the record
of an adjudioation of bankruptcy against Mr. John
Townsend, the member for the 'borough of Greenwich,
was ordered to be laid before the Rouse.
Mr. L. Son, in moving that the Counq Franchise
Bill be read • second time, shortly 'need reasons for
inducing the House to mike this small concession of
reform.
Mr. Di) CASI moved "the visions question." Short
as the Bill was, he observed, it involved one of the most
Important cLuestions submitted to the House during the
present session. He did not deny that the county fran-
chise might be very beneficially extended ; that there
were anomalies and inconsistencies in It; INA the
greatest
anomaly was that, of late year., 'mill Woe
begun to usurp • predominating influence wet
county elections.
This amendment was seconded by. Mr. MILLI.
Lord PALIMBTON said the Bill of last year bad •
different title and a different intentlon—thst of assimi-
lating the county and the borough trenches ; but this
Bill only reduced the county qualification so as to
extend the franchise for counties. The late Govern-
ment, when the Bill of last year was introduced, con-
templated a Reform Bill, and were of opinion that the
House should trust them, and wait for that measure.
The present Government, however, were not pledged to
produce nth a measure, but only to consider the ques-
tion. He held that this Bill was not the mu of last
year, and that a person who voted against that Bill might
consistently vote for this. As he wax one of those who
thought it might be advisable to reduce the county
franchise and to extend the constituency, be was pre-
pared to agree to the second reading of the Bill in
order to see in what degree the county }Tsushima could
be reduced consistently with the wailers of the country
and the henna of interests.
Mr. 111/11.1.1' charged Lord Palmerston with incon-
sistency. He had sot said what was the figure at which
he would az the county franchise in the committee.
The House divided upon the question, "that the
question be now put," which was owned in the affirma-
tive by 298 to 106.
The main question was then agreed to without •
division, and Use Bill was reed • mond time.
On the order for the snood reading of the Union.
since (Scotland) Bill,
Mr. Bhiex detailed at muse length his objections to
the Bill. He moved to defer the reading far ex
months.
The details rather than the principle were diseased.
The Lonts-AuvocAn made • general reply in Nippon
of the SUL
Mr. BLACK having withdrawn his amaximeet, the
Bill was read • noond time.
The Draughts on Bankers Law Amendment Bill and
the Law of Property Amendment Bill wete read a
second time.
toautpohthenereEmio:Kvalreczpo:lymip:e.ourbPtulneortonsiedmol....;:
Mr. ESTOOI7IIT Moved for a Select Committee to
Inquire into the operation of the Acts 9th and 10th of
Victoria, 10th and 11th of Victoria, and llth sod 12111
of
VlaWitCirEANTeofol:l:l:oBlBl
toE.ThThelihriiben: :time Bwillasfoa‘rer releasing t 7. the Commissioners of the
granted in aid of their funds.
The House adjourned at 1 o'clock.