The Stourbridge Observer, Cradley Heath, Halesowen & District Chronicle.
Stourbridge, West Midlands, England, 1876-09-16 00:00:00

_4IIIL.

MR, GLADSTONE ON THE ATROCITIES

IN BULGARIA.

Mr. Gladstone addressed a large meeting of electors
of Greenwich on Saturday afternoon, on Blackheath.
Resolutions were passed denouncing the Turkish
atrocities, censuring the British Government for want
of promptitude and energy, and urging the Govern-
ment to adopt measures in concert with the other
Powers of Europe to provide against the recurrence of
the atrocities by excluding the administrative action of
the Turkish Government from Bulgaria, Bosnia, and
Herz3govina. An address to the Queen was also
adopted.
Mr. Gladstone commenced by alluding to the cen-
sure that had been passed on the Crimean War, and
said that he had come in for a full share of that
censure; but on a proper occasion he was ready to
defend his participation in that policy—but that for
the present they might leave that battle unfought, and
he would only say he considered that the Crimean
War had entailed on us most solemn obligations, and
it was for the fulfilment of those obligations that he
was there to address them that day. Mr. G!adstone
then proceeded to remark that he had witnessed many
vivid movements of the popular mind, but never one
to compare with that which during the past fortnight
had taken its commencement, and had swollen with
such immense rapidity, and such legitimate rapidity,
to the dimensions of a national movement. —After
some further observations, in which he remarked that
it was idle to deny or disparage the character of this
movement, and that it was absurd to connect it with
the mere action of any political party however power-
ful, Mr. Gladstone proceeded with his speech, from
which we give the following extracts :

Now, my good friends, the first point to make good in our
present proceeding is that we should in our own consciences
and understandingsbe able to give a rational and well-con-
sidered answer to this question,—Are these horrors proved to
have occurred ? It is a very serious matter to make charges
such as I have made, and am about to make again (cheers)
upon my fellow creatures. The laws of justice, in my opinion,
know no distinction of country, of race, or of religion, and
we ought to be satisfied with the proof of these atrocities
before we presume to denounce them. Let me briefly remind
you how stands the case. The intelligent and careful
accounts given by the journals of this country, and above and
before all by one among them, the name of which livery well
known to you—l mean the Daily Sews (cheers)—have re-
mained before the world now for a part of the mouth of Jane
and for the whole of the months of July and August. If those
accounts are untrue, why have they not been confuted?
The Turkish Government is in possession of power enough,
It is ruling Bulgaria with the sword, and if strangers have
been there and ventured to make untrue charges against
them, why have they not confuted those charges? I have
read three official reports of the Turkish Government upon the
subject—l wish to Heaven you all could read every one of
them, but I do not know that you would thank me for imposing
such a task upon you—but I will presume to say that in those
three reports, and I am ready to point out to any one the
documents I mean, there is not one of the charges of the Daily
News which even so much as a serious and substantial
attempt has been made to refute. (" Shame ") They are vague,
self-giorllying declarations that they have been humane and
merciful (laughter), and that the allegations of atrocity are all
humbug and nonsense. In my opinion those allegations are the
greatest aggravation of the case. (Hear) Well, then, gentle-
men, I must say that we, the English, through our Consular
authorities, have moved but with halting steps; but Mr.
Baring has, at any rate, sent to us some statements which
prove to WI, not the details, but which prove to us, in his
judgment, that in the main the bulk of those statements
must be true. A very important witness has come into the
field. His report produced. I mast say, the most marked
impression on my mind, in convincing me that the time had
come when for me, as one of the authors of the Crimean war,
the responsibility of longer silence was too great to be borne
(Hear, hear.) I mean the Commissioner, the United States'
Conseil or Commissioner, who represents a nation that we
rejoice to call our brethren, and whose personal character
and trustworthiness, as I have taken pains to ascer-
tain, are worthy of the office he holds and of the
people whom he serves. (Hear. hear.) Having,
thin, read these documents, and having heard the
opposite party—having heard what the Turkish Govern-
ment had to say, and finding that it only aggravates
the case, I say that we are in a position to assert that these
horrors are proved, and to consider what duties are incum-
bent upon us in consequence of that proof. (Hear, hear.) It
may be said that we have not got very clean hands ourselves.
There is no nation in the world, my good friends, that has
perfectly clean bands (hear, hear) ; and I am bound to say
that, though I think the English and the people of the three
kingdoms are a very great nation, I do not think that we are
entitled on all occasions to such uniform and peculiar credit
for humanity as we sometimes claim for ourselves. (Hear,
hear.) I make that eonfession frankly. I will not refer to
the misdeeds of other nations', but we see it now said that
there was a dreadful massacre at Glencoe, that there were
great atrocities perpetrated at Badajoz in the Penin-
sula War; and, coming down to later times, I am
bound to say I cannot defend the proceeding. that were
taken either in what was called the revolt in Cephalonia or
In the more recent revolt in Jamaica. (Hear, hear.) I
cannot, and I will not, defend each and all of those pro-
ceeding.; but, good heavens I to pretend to compare those
proceedings with what we are now dealing with Is an in-
sult to the common sense of Europe. (Hear, hear.) They
may constitute a dark page in British history; but if you
could concentrate the whole of that page of every one of
them into a single point, and a single spot, it would not be
worthy to appear upon one of the pages which will here-
after consign to everlasting infamy the proceedings of the
Turks in Bulgaria. (Cheers.) So much, therefore, for clean
hands. Ido not overlook the question. But I say that it
does not absolve us from whatever other duty may
be incumbent upon us in reference to the great subject
now before us. (Hear, hear.) Upon the question as to
whether the horrors have been sufficiently demonstrated, I
may, by the bye, be content now to be bound by the declara-
tions of the members of the Government themselves. Mt
Bourke, the Under-Secretary of State, has described them in
language the strength of which it would be very difficult to
surpass. Lord George Hamilton, speaking the other night
at Sheffield, and delivering what our friends in America I
think commonly call a sprightly speech (laughter), said that
these horrors were dreadful beyond description. He used
the same language that we use

The next question it--Who are implicated in these atroci-
ties? Now I have taken another opportunity of setting out as
well as I could the facts of this case so far as it may be con-
sidered a question internal to ourselves, in order to define
with as much accuracy as possible the special obligations
of the British people growing out of what has recently oc-
curred. I will not now say one word upon that subject.
I will keep, or endeavour to keep, the pledge with which I
set out, that I would try to treat the question as a question
in which all Englishmen have a common interest, and I
will strive to avoid saying anything that can give pain to the
mind of any Englishman whatever. (Hear, hear.) The ques-
tion is, and ills *very great question, is the Turkish Govern-
ment implicated in these atrocities? I will tell you why I
hold they are; and they are so deeply implicated in them
that it is impossible to draw an effectual distinction between
the men whose hands perpetrated the deed and the central
Government of the country from the course they have pur-
sued with regard to it (Hear.) In the first place, they
might very well have anticipated what was to take place.
They knew, if we did not know, the men whom they were
employing. But I will not de ell on that, but on what
they have done since these deeds were blazoned in the face
of the whole world. In the first place, they have taken
every possible measure to conceal them—(" Hear" and
"Shame ")—in the second place, they have punished all those
who endeavoured to divulge them; and I have myself
printed, within the last three days, the actual original
document which suppressed a newspaper at Constantinople
liecause it bad questioned a statement made in this country
in partial mitigation of the charge against Turkey. And in
that original document, issued on the 11th ef last August, the
Turkish Government had the audacity to speak of the pre-
tended excesses in Bulgaria. Therefore they have concealed
the acts, they have kept back the knowledge, they have
punished those who endeavoured to supply their defect of
duty by enlightening the world of what had taken place.
That is pretty complete, I think but there is one act besides
—one worse than that, and worse than every other, they
have rewarded ("Shame"), they have promoted, they have
deccrated with what they call their honours ("Shame")
the very worst miscreants who perpetrated soma
of the chief of these horrors ; and when that
has been done—and it cannot be denied; the three names
are perfectly well known, and have been printed over and
over again—it is utterly ridiculous to contend that we are
not to regard the Government of Turkey itself as deeply
dyed, in hand and arm, with blood that has been shed and
covered with the cloud of shame that has descended on that
degraded land. Well, I think these are some of the facts on
which your action should depend, and I address you as a
specimen of the people of England, because the sentiments
that beat in your breads are throbbing in every other Eng-
Bin and British heart `.

Have you read the detestable proceedings that are re-
counted in the jaurnals of the last few days? You may
say we have not got the authority of the Government
about them. I wish to Heaven we had. We have an
officer of high rank and great distinction in the Tur-
kish camp—General KembalL I am truly sorry we have
no report yet from him, any more than we have from Mr.
Baring. Bat you will see that, generally, what is done
may be described its an attempt to treat Servia as another
Bulgaria. You will see that illumination attends the
march of the Turkish army, and that illumination Is the
flame that arises from the burning of every village, so that
the few whom the sword and torture shall spare may, if
possible, perish by starvation. I would not dwell longer on
this painful subject, but this I say—that if it be true that
the same horrcrs which are so described in the news-
papers of the last few days are now proceeding in Servia
tbey ought to be stopped. (Cheers.) They ought to be
stopped; and those who do not stop them, if they have the
power, will be responsible for them. (Hear, hear.) This
Is a matter, gentlemen, in which time is of the utmost im-
portance. You know not on what day events of the most
vital character and consequence may occur in Servia.
Whatever happens, you must not be put off with excuses
and halting declarations. Whatever we ask of oar autho-
rities, one thing we must ask them above all—that they
be prompt; and another thing that they be intelligible. It
Ii the duty of Europe and of the rowers of Europe to stop
what we now denounce. is not your duty to remon-
strate against that. When that great warehouse was burnt
down
almost
b the
ownnear London Bridge a few years ago, and the Thames
wit inll acme
be an
awgirteht
itelzo
the floating ; y
ee casks,mtg dbitd
just you remon-
strate w
ell
have remonstrated with those flames as remonstrate with
the Turkish Government with reference to those things
which are nnw going on--(lou4d clbliers)—and the Govern-
ment ought to know and w
whether they are or not. Then m
be to
tethistbe or p
diplomacy,without rebf eerbeenecre yoPe'atalr:merYatior is know,
that movement of
are
tosaybiower, whatsoever its
tPbrariti a gkeerd to occur
name, that first steps In to
perfect knowledge
I do not say that they
kis to be
them. (Cheers)
whenenytb
anything
they
udto not.
conviction Idonot
and a
of the facts but if the facts be so, that, iniezaounpdinol,gies
the conclusion to be drawn. My lords,
men, what are the measures that we ought to lieknett
order to prevent the recurrence of these atceeitiasy 11l my
QPlllicilt Wel ought W be the bald* N which till 4 oft

admits, but they ought Se be effectual measures (hear,
hear) ; and if I were, unfortunately, compelled tof udge
between that which ie mild and that which is effectual; if
I found that I had the power of lodging, which I have not
—I speak simply as an individual to my constituents and
fellow-citizens and fellow-men—if I had tke power of judging
and deciding—H I found; that that which was mild would
not be effectual, and that which was effectual could not be
mild, my choice would not be long in making. I most take
the effectual, and I must put aside the mild. (Cheers)
Nevertheless, I do not deepen of measures which I call mild,
and which may, I trust, be effectuaL You have read, per-
haps—at any rate, you have heard of—the letter in The
Times to-day of Lord Stratford de Redcliffe, whom I may
with truth call my distinguished and venerated hien(
Lord Stratford de Radcliffe, who was himself among al
English statesmen the most jealous of the power of Russia
holds and contends that these States in which Turkey has bee:
perpetrating such unheard-of outrages must be protected, not
by the idle farce of a renewal of promises, not by the son, jest
of issuing more firmans, but by positive measures of a nature
which will take it out of the power of Turkey again to redden
and blacken the annals of mankind by similar recitals. (Cheers)
Lord Stratford de tedcliffe leans—as I gather from his letter
—to the appointment of a foreign commission, representing
the Powers of Europe, and appointed to exercise a conclusive
control over all Turkish operations and proceedings in these
Provinces. ("No, no.") Well, my respect for Lord Stratford
de Redcliffe's authority in such that I am ready to say that,
If such a measure could be adopted as we did adopt in Syria
when Lord bafferin was sent there, I should be very glad to
see that. At the same time, lam very doubtful whether we
should by such a measure be conferring any favour on the
Turks. I think their position would be a very awkward one.
I think the position of the authorities In this borough or in
London would be very awkward if they could not take
any metuntro for the government of the metropolis with-
out the assent of a foreign commission. We should
not like that at ale (Laughter and "Hear?) I know
that Lord Statford de Redollffe has always looked
to that measure without repudiating others, and
that it is a very great question whether the simplest
course is not that which I have presumed—for It is presump-
tion on my part—to recommend, that all Turkish authorities
should walk out of the place. (Cheers) That is what they
have done in Roumania. Fours millions of people there are
as completely emancipated from the practical control of the
Turkish Government as you and I are. It is true the Sultan
is their suzerain—it is true that they pay him, I think,
MCi,OOO a year for discharging the duties. That is a great
deal too small a matter to ask you to come to Blackheath to
meddle with and lam in favour of retaining that suzerainty
If we can, because I am afraid the harmony of the Courts and '
Powers of Europe would be too severely strained were there
a quantity of plunder going and it came to a question of the
distribution of spoils. (Laughter and cheers) If any
one asked me how I would distribute the spoils,
my answer would ha—l would not distribute them
at aIL These Provinces were not destined to be the
property of Russia, or of Austria, or of England :
they were destined for the inhabitants of these Provinces.
(Cheers.) They are not; as you have been unwisely and
untruly told, savages. On the contrary, they are a well-
conducted and industrious people, and they are a people
who know how to manage their own concerns—at any rate
very decently and tolerably, if only they had the oppor-
tunity. I say, therefore, let our measures be as mild as they
may, but let them be effectual measures. (Hear, hear.)
If it can be done by a foreign commission taking the govern-
ment of these Provinces virtually into their own hands, let
it be so done. I myself lean to the simpler method of saying
to the Turk—which I believe to be very good terms for
him—" You shall receive a reasonable tribute, you shall
retain your titular sovereignty, your Empire shall not be
invaded; but never again, while the years roll their course,
so far as it is in our power to determine, never again shall
the hand of violence be raised by you, never again shall the
floodgates of last be opened by you, never again shall the
dire refinements of cruelty be devised by you for the sake cf
making mankind durable in Bulgaria." (Cheers.) . . . .
I come now to the question—if there is to be this effectual
prevention, and lilt can only be had either by putting a
double bridle on the acts of Turkey in Bulgaria, or, as I
think better, by requiring that the exercise of that authority
should cease—by whom is this to be done? It must be done,
it can only be done with safety, by the united action of the
Powers of Europe. Your power is great, but what is above
all things essential is that the mind and heart of Europe
in this matter should be one. I need now only speak of
the six we call great Powers—Russia, Germany, Austria,
France, England, and Italy. The union of all is not only
important, but almost indispensable for entire success and
satisfaction; yet there are two of these great Powers whose
position is such that they stand forth far before the rest in
authority, and in the means of effectively applying that
authority, as well as in responsibility, upon this great question
and those two Powers are England and Russia. (Cheers) I
wish, above all things, to be plain and honest with you. It
may be in the power of any of these six important States to
mar and to frustrate the wise settlement of this question ;
and undoubtedly it is in the power either of England or of
Russia to make a good settlement impossible; and, moreover
Ii they have so bad an inclination in them, it is in their power
to make a good settlement impo‘sible, and to do that venh
Impunity. If we were wicked enough to prevent it, nobody
could punish us for our misconduct. The Almighty, who has
said, " Vengeance is mine," will take his own time for settling
the account. The same is the case with Russia—lf Russia
entertains the diabolical schemes, or even the selfish schemes
which many people are so fond of imputing to her; and
I am not such a dreamer as to suppose that Russia more than
other countries is exempt from selfish ambition; she has
also within her the pulse of humanity, and for my part I
believe it is the pulse of humanity that Is now throbbing
almost ungovernably in her people. And a good settlement
of this question depends. not upon a mere hollow truce be-
tween England and Russia, but upon their concord and their
hearty and cordial eo-operation. Their power is immense.
The power of Russia by land of acting upon these coun-
tries as against Turkey is perfectly resistless. The
power of England by sea is scarcely less important at
this moment; for I ask what would be the conduct of
the Turkish army if the British Admiral now in Besika
Bay were to inform the Government in Constantinople
that from that hoar, until atonement had been made,
until punishment had descended, until justice had been
vindicated, not a man nor a ship nor a boat should cross
the waters of the Bosphoran or the cloudy Enxine, or the
bright 2Egean to carry aid to the Turkish troops—Cloud
cheers)—those armies of Asiatic hordes that are now de-
solating Beryl& and are endeavouring to reproduce the
horrible portraiture they have left behind in Bulgaria?
To stop the passage of these waters at once cuts off the
vital source of what is called Turkish power. Such is the
power of these two Staten I rejoice to think that the people
of this country have lifted themselves up to a level far
higher than that of ancient recollection of blood and strife.
Why, gentlemen, we fought with Russia in 1854, and a gal-
lant defence she made, though she was beaten ; why should
we not respect her as a foe. Why should we not act with
her for good. Why should we not reserve suspicion and
resentment for the time when they are justified by some acts
of hers, and not merely by old and invidious recollections?
Why, think of the case of our great neigbour across the
Channel—the case of France—not 100 years have elapsed
—just 90 years —since one of the most enlightened British
statesmen—l mean Mr. Charles James Fox—was suffi-
ciently under the influence of traditional prejudices to
describe Franca in the House of Commons as "our natural
enemy," and for 30 years after that time, for the greater
part of that SO years we were locked in deadly conflict with
France. But what is the case now? The whole of those
ancient animosities have died away, and the very recollec-
tion of them is so pale in our minds that I have no doubt
I raise in you a sentiment of surprise when I refer to that
declaration of Mr. Fox. We look back upon France with
respect for her great military powers, and we say if she
fought so well against us, she will fight equally well with
us, and I for one, for the purposes of justice, am ready as
an individual to give the right hand of friendship to
Russia, when her objects are just and righteous ; to say,
in the name of God "Go on and prosper." I believe that
is pretty nearly the state of the case, so far as I am able to
describe it. I ara convinced that the main object lathe
concord of England and Russia; but that concord itself
would be worthless, unless it were to address itself
decisively and immediately to the solution of the necessary
parts of this problem. Allow me to say I have quite
enough faith in this country to know that when the nation
has a good purpose in view, its actual leaders, or some
leaders, will be found to lead to the result desired being
accomplished. (Great cheering.) Gentlemen, I have re-
frained, and I have advisedly refrained, from bringing
before you those details which in rank abundance have
been published of the misdeeds that we feebly attempt to
describe. I hope you will understand that it was simply
from a desire not to shock the natural feelings, both of
women and men, by recitals which are scarcely fitted to
pass from the month of a human being, much less to enter
Into his beast to accomplish. How we shall all rejoice if for
the painful, doubtful, and often harrowing considerations of
the past few months, we are permitted by the mercy of
Almighty God to see a state of things in which right and
might shall join their hands and march together to the ac-
chievement of a great and jut and holy work, not forgetting
prudence, for prudence never can be forgotten without
offence against justice—not forgetting prudenee, but ap-
plying that prudence to the effectual attainment of the
end in view. Never, so far as lam able to form any feeble
judgment, never have I known a great object, so pressing
in its urgency, upon which the Powers of Europe and the
peoples of Europe were so cordially united as they are
upon this. Of those six States there Is not cne from which
we have tceanticipate anything but cordial and sincere con-
currence. . . .
This is not the first time in the course of my life
that I have had to meddle with a matter of this kind. (Hear
hear.) Sir and twenty years ago I endeavoured to di;
you up with respect to the abuses of government in Italy ;
but let me render this justice to defunct dynasties, that it
would be a cruel sin and shame to compare for one moment,
or in any one respect, that government of the Bourbon
dynasty in Naples with the atrocious system that has been
desolating Bulgaria. (Cheers.) In Italy you see, aye, in Its
capital, in its great historic City of Rome, the people have
taken your and our method of expressing their own opinions;
and from the very first outbreak of these difficulties in the
East, the sympathies of Italy have been given to the
oppressed, You have, indeed, before you, as I have already
said, an arduous task, but for the performance of that
arduous work we have every encouragement. It is beyond
our single power, but within our united power. Without
anion we cannot attain, but with union we may, under God,
attain the end. Go forward, then, gentlemen, with British
pluck and resolution—go forward you have much to do.
You have error and neglect to repair, but you have a great
purpose to accomplish, which, if you shall happily achieve,
yen will once again add to the glories of your forefathers, and
make a solid contribution to the happiness of mankind.
(Loud cheers.)
Mr. Gladstone spoke exactly one hour.

a she

The address was put, and agreed to. A vote of
thanks was moved to Mr. Bell, the chairman; and
the Rev. Newman Hall, being loudly called for for-
mally seconded the motion. This vote, followed by
three cheers for the Queen, terminated the proceed-
ings at a quarter to five o'clock, and the assembly
then dispersed.

The Times of Monday (in a leader) says the magnitude of
She crowd that assembled on Blackheath on Saturday was
no mean attestation of the horror and resentment exci.:ed
throughout the country by the atrocities in Bulgaria. The
substance of Mr. Gladstone'a speech was necessarily a repeti-
tion of the substance of the pamphlet published last Wed-
nesday. It is needless to add that Mr. Gladstone showed the
same vigour in speaking that he had done in writing, and
though we know the number of his years from the
almanack, no one could suspect from Saturday's address
that there was any ground for putting in that
plea of age which he advanced to the Lancishire excur-
sionists at Hawarden. He had, of course, the sympathies of
tpheanduingge. It
has
with him, and he was not unconscious that
the sympathies of the whole British nation supported his
ie
undoubtedly come to be true that English-
men are now of one mind in resenting the barbarities of the
Turks in Bulgaria: and it seems to be also true that thsy are
, agreed in the conclusion that Bosnia, Herzegovina, and Bul-
garia must, in some fashion or other, be withdrawn from the
administrative control of Turkey. England and nasals
united can insure a satlsfactory settlement of the Eastern
, Question, and the present Emperor of Russia is,
fortunately, a man only too anxious to work with
England in securing for the disturbed provinces of
Turkey guarantees of peace and good government.
The establishment of self zovernment in Bosnia, Herze-
govina, and Trans-Balkan Bulgaria is not really difficult on
account of the j-alousie. of neighbouring Powers, though
these jealousies cuss: the difficulty lies in the disorganiza-
tion and opposition of elements found in these provinces.
The hope of effecting anything like a veal settlement of the
Eastern difficulty lies, as Mr. Gladstone emphatically said on
Saturday, in the concord of England and Russia; although,
he added, that concord would be worthless unless it were to
address itself decisively and immediately to the essential parts
of the problem. The Tunes hopes that our Government has
realised these truths, and is no longer halting in paths
of indecision. It is necessary that the guaranteeing
tottiranbeagdrpeeromvienneteosn;tahnertulttfituLaoterdforormerboyf
rmtsesenhiton of u
a come e
the
tiv
disturbed
suggestion of the terms of this agree-
menttsFaeoktwtelsee
h
he may retrieve any ill affects of his former refusal to
j, in the other Powers. He can no longer plead Ignorance of
the mind and will of his fellow-countrymen on the subject,
and, as he professed his desire to be instructed by the Judg-
ment of the nation, he may now be called upon to fulfil his
declaration.

A convention of fish-cnltnriate will be held in Phila-
delphia on the sth and 6th of next month, when a dinner will
be given at which the menu will be entirely composed of flab.
It is expected that every variety of edible fish caught on the
Atlantic or Pacific coast of the United States will be pre-
sented, supplemented by European fish. Some of the
foreign commbalouen to the Ciltltrellial
Oen

iaLidiFeoi 4,C01, cY

LORD DERBY ON THE EASTERN
QUESTION,

On Monday Lord Derby received two large deputa-
tions at the Foreign Office, when his lordship spoke at
length upon the course taken by the Government in
relation to the subject which is now agitating the
world—the Eastern Question. Both deputations bad
attended to speak in regard-.to different points of this
Ation—one being from the London Trades'
mists, and leading representatives of the working
Asses, conjointly with some of the gentlemen gsso-
ciated with the City of London movement; and the
other being from the Working Men's Peace Associa-
tions. Lord Derby desired to receive the deputations
as one and give his answer to both, but to this the
Trades' Unionists demurred, and his lordship received
them separately. With the first were Sir John
Bennett, F. R S., the Rev. Mr. Denton, Mr. J. Merri-
man, Mr. George Potter, Mr. George Howell, Mr.
Lloyd Jones, M. D. Guile, &c.—Mr. George Potter
read the following address to the Minister :
My Lord,-.-This deputation, consisting of leading men con- i
nected with working-class movements, have not come here
to question the past policy of the Government on this
Eastern Question. We have not come in any wrong sense of
the word as party politicians. We are here simply as men
connected by position and sympathy with that large section
of the British public called working men. We profess to
know something of the thoughts of this class of our country-
men, as our intercourse with them has continued over many;
years, and, with meat of us, extends nearly all over the king-
dom ; and we may add that it has always been intimate—we
might even say, confidential. On all great public questions
we think we may say that our thoughts and feelings fairly re-
present theirs, and it is therefore we have asked this inter-
view that their sentiments expressed by us may, on this
Eastern Question, meet with some consideration from her
Majesty's Government
,s
We hope, my lord, you will believe us when we say that
we are not here in the slightest way to suggest to you how
the duties of your important oftice should be performed; nor
would we attempt to instruct the Government as to the pre-
cise manner in which it should act on a great question of
foreign policy like that which is agitating the public mind at
present. You stand in closer relation to the facts than we
do, and, we presume, understand them better. We believe,
too, that you desire strongly to maintain the nation's honour,
to promote her interests, and to make her power legitimately
felt in promoting the progress and general welfare of other
nations and peoples
Looking at this Eastern Question we think we may say
that British citizens of every sect and party deplore the atro-
cities committed by the Turks; and taking the horrible
acts that have been described in the newspaper press with
such shocking minuteness of detail, as evidence of a spirit of
barbarism, out of keeping with the ordinary usages of nations,
even in a state of war, bad as these frequently are. We hold it
to be the duty of all Governments, but more particularly of
the British Government, and especially of yourself, my
lord, as the head of the Foreign Department, to act in
this matter so as to render such hideous barbarities impos-
sible for the future. We do not say that the Turks have
been in any way encouraged by the past policy of
the British Government, but we do say that we oonaider
it the duty of our Government to leave nothing undone
that may be necessary to prove to the Government and
people of Turkey that every British instinct, every determi-
nation of Englishmen's minds, and every impulse of their
hearts, prompt them to cry out indignantly against such
inhuman ferocity; and that should such actions be re-
peated, the English people will insist on their Government
taking such action, in concert with other civilised Govern-
ments in Europe, as may be required to control a power
chiefly felt by its abase, to restrain a Government which
seems to be degenerating into an organisation of imbecility
and crime.

I My lord, we should have been here to urge these views had
1 Liberals been in office, because we feel that the British
nation is degraded and compromised by even the slightest
apparent toleration of a Government capable of permitting,
without reprobation and punishment, Bach crimes as have
, been perpetrated by the larks in the villages of Bulgaria,
1 and In Servia.

We believe that your lordship is an earnest friend to peace,
and we, as working men, believing that peace means a more
active and more profitable industry, urge on your lordship
the duty of promoting peace in the East. But we wish it to
be understood at the same time that no consideration of
policy, or of class Interest, can ever obtain from us sanction
or approval, or anything but the most determined opposition
to any Government or policy that equivocates with such
awful wickedness as the Turks have enacted in Bulgaria and
Beryl& Whatever else Turkey may be she is rot strong as a
nation deprived of the countenance and support of England
—and whatever these may be worth, so far as we can prevent
It, we are determined they never shall be used In support of
evil doing whoever the actor or actors.
We speak to you my lord, as we feel; and if we have
spoken with undue warmth we ask you to excuse us. Our
object is to make our feelings, our thoughts, our determine-
tion known to you. We make no offers of support to the
present Government, nor do we threaten opposition In re-
gard to anything that may be done; but on this subject our
feelings are. strong, our thoughts are clear, and our deter-
mination is fixed. Oar final word is no complicity with
crime, no cfilcial inaction, when outrages against liberty or
humanity call for suppression. Several plans have been
mooted for the limitation of the power of the Truk in
Europe. We do not pretend to say here which is the best
or fittest for the G 3vernment to adopt We simply urge im-
mediate action that shall be effectual, and that may in its
effects be permanent.
After some observations had -beim made by se.
members of the deputation, the Earl of Derby, in
reply, said :

I by

ter-

)veral I

i have listened, I need not say, with care and attention to
the remarks which you have addressed to me. I have
listened, moreover, with considerable interest, knowing the
representative character of this deputation. lam bound to
acknowledge the courtesy and fairness of the language which
you have held towards the Government, and I willingly accept
the assurer ce which you have given, and which, indeed the
language of your address rendered almost superfluous, that
you have not come here in any party spirit, but are simply
here to impress upon those who are responsible for the con-
duct, as executive authority, of foreign affairs, your view of
the situation in which we are placed, with regard to the pre-
sent crises. Now, that being so, you will not expect me to waste
your time and my own in defending myself or my colleagues
against the various imputations which have been thrown
out against us, by many writers and speakers, in the excite-
ment of the time. But these imputations have so frequently
been repeated—and I think, although in courteous language,
they have received some support from the speech of the
gentleman who addressed us last—they have been so con-
stantly repeated out of doors, and I have so few opportunities
of addressing the public, that probably you will not think I
am unnecessarily occupying your time if I touch upon the
subject ter a moment (Hear, hear.) Now, lam not going
to complain of the utterances to which I have referred, how-
ever wild and vehement some of them may have been. It is
natural enough that people should be deeply agitated and
pained by the knowledge, especially when presented in skilful
and artistic narratives, ot theta lamentable and disgusting acts
of which we have heard so much, and ills equally natural that
when people are in that excited vein they should wish to have
somebody to find 14113 with—somebody whom they could
make responsible, and as they cannot do much in that way,
and as they cannot in any practical manner make the Turkish
Government responsible, it is not unnatural that they should
wish to throw the blame on those who are the Government of
the day. Now, we have been told that we have shown in-
difference to these grave crimes which have been moving the
people to demonstration, and that we have rendered our-
selves liable as accomplices in those acts. Considering we
never heard of them until after they had occurred, I am
quite unable to understand what is the practical meaning
of that charge, or in what manner any public dis-
play of our feelings in regard to them would have
bad a practical result. I would just point out,
setting aside for the moment all other considera-
tions, that English Ministers are the very last men
who can be indifferent to such acts as those to which you
have referred. (Hear, hear.) Whatever else they may have
done, there can be no question that these acts have increased
enormously the difficulties of the situation already com-
plicated enough to deal with. No one can doubt that the
British Government is sincerely anxious to bring about a
peaceable and satisfactory settlement of these Eastern dis-
turbances, and nobody, 1 suppose, doubts that the feeling
created by these Bulgarian atrocities has placed fresh
obstacles in the way of such a settlement, and therefore to
tell us that we are indifferent to these acts is in effect to tell
us that we are indifferent as to whether we succeed or
fail in the objects we have In view, and that it is to
us a matter of unconcern whether or not the situation is
fraught with danger to the whole peace of Enrope. Then,
again, we are told—and Mr. Denton referred to that charge
—that we are in some measure responsible, as we are a
party acquiescing in It, for what has occurred, inasmuch as
without the assistance of English sy mpatb y and support the
Turks never would have ventured on committing the acts
which they have committed. The argument was, as well as
I understood it. "You supported the Tarkish Government
in opposing certain propositions which were made; you sent
a British fleet to Bulk& Bay, and by so &deg yen gave moral
and, in a oertain sense, material assistance to Turkey, and
you are therefore responsible for those outbreaks of the
fanatical spirit among the Turkish population." Now, lithe
people who argue in that way will only take the trouble—and
it is not much to ask—to lcok into She narrative of what
actually happened, they will see that that theory is rendered
untenable by the simple fact of the dates of the various events
occurring. We had, in the winter, so far from supporting
Turkey, agreed in the Austrian proposition, which was
naturally very unpopular with the Porte. Our refusal to join
in the Berlin Memorandum, which arose from something I
will refer to presently, was not announced until the lath of
May, and it was not reported by Sir Henry Elliot until the
date of the 19th of that month. The fleet, which was sent
for by Sir Henry Elliot—sent for, I need scarcely remind you
with the concurrence of all the other Ambassadors, who
also telegraphed for their fleets to come also, and sent for
for the express purpose of protecting the unarmed popula-
tion against the outbreaks possible at that moment—did not
begin to arrive until the 26th of May; to the best of my
recollection only two or three ships had arrived by that
date, and the rest of the squadron came afterwards. Now,
the great bulk of these wretched excesses occurred in the
early part and in the middle of the month of May,
according to the statements before us—that is, some
days before the British Fleet had been sent for, or
before anybody could possibly have known that it had
been sent for, and before our refusal to assent to the Berlin
Memorandum could possibly have been known. What the
Public is asked to believe is, that these occurrences were
caused in part by the actlen of the British Government—
that action not having, in fact, occurred until the majority
of these atrocities had been perpetrated. I might push that
part of the argument a little further if it were necessary. I
might ask you to judge for yourselves how far you would
think it possible that a horde of ruffians—savages who could
not read or write, or who have never seen a newspaper in -
their lives—could have been influenced in their acts by the
relations between the English Government and the Porte.
It the Turks counted on our support, or upon the neutrality
of soy European Power, it stands to reason that they would
have abstained from the commission or the perpetration
of those acts which have alienated them from all European
sympathy. On the other hand, if they believed all Europe
to be against them, oe that there was a combination of all
the Christian population to drive them back Into Asia,
that weuld be exactly the circumstance which would lead
them to break out into excesses prompted by revenge and
despair—outbreaks such as are sustainable even by savage
races so long as they have nothing to lose, which they
indulge in freely when they know that their cause is hope-
less and that everything is lost, and that they have
nothing more to look to except the gratification of revenge.
I have said it before and I repeat it now, that the convic-
tion, even so far as that conviction existed, that England
only wished to see fair play between the contending parties,
has done more than any other circumstance in pre-
venting this unfortunate war assuming the charac-
ter of a religious war, and in preventing the com-
mission of many of those acts of which we have
been speaking in many Provinces instead of in one. Ido
not know whether it is worth quoting. but I have heard it
remarked by a gentleman who spoke just now, among
others, that we were especially responsible for Turkey, and
that we had, as it were, become surety for her. Ido not
exactly understand on what that statement is based. We
did not make the Crimean War alone; we made that war In
concert with France. It was, no doubt, a popular war in
this country, but everybody knows that the Power which
mainly pushed on that war in the beginning was our ally,
the Emperor of the French. I do not know that that is
very material; but I must protest, on behalf of the British
Government, against it being considered that we hold an
exceptional and peculiar situation in regard to our relations
to Turkey arising out of that war, different from that of
any other Power. Well, it is a very minor matter to deal
with; but I have seen it asserted "Why were these things
happening? Why have you not a Consul properly to
report at once to you, so as to interfere in time ? "
My, answer to that is, that it was a mere accident
that these massacres occurred in that particular dis-
trict; they might have occurred in any other district
where an Insurgent population existed. We cannot have
a Consul in every town in Turkey, and, as a matter
of fact, the district is one in which there are no
British residents to protect, and no British interests to
serve. This I venture to say—though I do not want my
words to bear in the slightest degree a party oanstruction—
but'l venture to say that if we had years ago had a British
Coneul in Phillipopolls, I am quite sure that our predecessors
in power, in the exercise of their zsal for retrenchment in
the public service, which I consider very laudable zeal,
for economy sake would not have left that Consul
there. So tar as I can make mot, the massacres occurred
at a moment when there was entire anarchy preveiling at
Constantinople ; the Batten was notoriously insane, and
war aucl ..royolutica wara kmown $e be !Mean 14444ril

()di Oh ()Mi.

and officials of all kinds, from those Who held high
offices at Constantinople down to the local pashas
in all the ProviLces, had been so repeatedly changed and
shifted from post to post, hardly anyone remaining in
the same post for more than a fortnight or three weeks, all
administrative power and all authority were in abeyance,
and, in fact, the country was in a condition of administrative
anarchy. As to Sir Henry Elliot, I know that for one re.
monstrance that has been recerded, he made a dozen not
recorded; he again end ag4n warned those in power of the
extreme danger that we arise from the employment of
these irregular troops, I at this particular time, as I say,
there was nobody practically responsible for the exercise of
t authority, and those irregular troops wore levied and
suited in all directions without being 'subjected to
proper discipline. Although I do not at all acqalt
the Government of the Porte from having been cut.
pably negligent and remiss in repressing the atrocities
and punishing the perpetrators of these outrages, still it
is not the fact, as far as I can learn from any infor-
mation in my possession, that these acts were in any sense
dictated or encouraged by any one at Constantinople. I
believe those who are in power have sense enough to know
the enormous mischief which those outrages would do their
cause, and that from a selfish point of view, if for no other,
they undoubtedly tried to atop such acts Ido not know that
I need detain you any longer with regard to past events, and
as to these I shall only say that we do not come before the
country, and we shall not come More Parliament in the
minion of persons who have anything to unsay that we have
imid in the past, or anything to regret in what we have done,
In the three acts of this .Eastern drama, so far as it has been
performed in the acceptance of the Austrian Note, in the re-
jection of the Berlin Memorandum, and in the assembling of
he British Fleet in Beaika Bay, the country has, I believe,
inmost unanimously concurred. These acts were laid with
all necessary explanations before Parliament, and they
were concurred in, I venture to say, by all except a small
minority, and I cannot see that the justification of any one
of them is affected in the slightest degree by the subasquent
coming to light of transactions with which we had nothing
to do, and of which at the time we knew absolutely nothing,
and which, as I have already explained, horrible and detests
able as they were, were due rather to the weakness than to
the will of the Turkish Government. I ought to apologise
to you for having dwelt so long upon this subject, but it you
can fancy the daily correspondence which I receive, to say
nothing of the language used in public meetings, you would
begin to think, as I do, that there are a great many people
in England under the impression that Lord Bsaconsfield lathe
Sultan, and that I am the Grand Vizier. We have exactly the
same right and the same power of interference with regard to
acts of this kind connected with the internal administration
of Turkey, that is possessed by every other great Power. I
do not know whether in France, Germany, Italy, and other
countries people are crying out, as they do here, and de-
nouncing their Governments as being accomplices in these
atrocities. Now let me remind you what has been the attitude
taken throughout by the present Government, and taken
not only by them, but by their predecessors, with regard
to the Turkish Question. I think there is a good deal of
confusion in the public mind between two things which
are essentially distinct. One is the question of the territorial
integrity of the Ottoman Empire, and the other is the
relations between the Porte and the various races of
which that Empire is composed. (Hear, hear.) Many
persons here present have judiciously abstained from
holding language of that kind, but undoubtedly many have
advised us to abandon our policy of the last 50 or 60 years,
to wash our hands of the whole affair, and to let the terri-
torial integrity of the Ottoman Empire take care of itself.
I am bound to tell you that I think that it would be as
great a mistake now as at any former time. The reasons
which induced us to sets value on the territorial integrity of
Turkey are constant and permtuient. The last word on the
Eastern Question is, "Who is to rule in Constantinople?"
(Bear, hear.) No great Power would be willing to see it in
the hands of any other great Power, and joint occupations,
which sometimes receive countenance, are at the best very
dangerous expedients. You will see at once that that is not
In any way affected by the insanity of the Sultan, by the
maladministration of the lurkish Government, or by the
crimes committed by the Turkish troops. Any attempt to
partition Turkey would in all probability be the signal for a
European war; at any rate, it could not be without the most
imminent risk of bringing about such a war ; and I hold, there-
fore, that it is as sound pclicy now, as much as it was 20 years
ago, to adhere to that which diplomatists call the territorial
status quo. It is possible that the language which is being
used may induce foreign politicians and Governments to
think that England has changed her mind upon the sub-
ject; I think that if that is changed it would be a misfortune
to us and to all the world. But as to the relations of the
various races within the Turkish Empire to the Government,
that is an entirely different question. These relations have
been repeatedly modified within the last few years. and they
may be modified again. The Turkish Empire, as I need not
tell you, is not a homogeneous whole. Egypt has one Con-
stitution, the districts ef Lebanon have another, Crete has a
system of local selagovernment which, I believe, is worked
practically well. The only complaint that I have heard is
not that the Constitution Is not sufficiently liberal and just,
but that its Firmans are not observed. I need not refer
tos Servia and Montenegro, for you know the situation of
those Provinces well enough; but I will say this, that every
one of those arrangements have been settled with the con-
currence more or less, of the guaranteeing Powers ; and I
am quite sure of this, that you will not find a word uttered
by me or by any of my colleagues—nor, I believe, by those who
have preceded me in office—which tended to show hostility
In principle upon our part to any further extension of such
constitutional changes there that circumstances admit of
oln point of fact, I think that one ot the last that occurred
WW2 8 in 1867, the abandonment by the Porte of its right to
toeep a garrison in Belgrade. That change was brought
bout by the united action of the Powers in that year. The
vernment of this country was a consenting party, and I
oiled to deal with that arrangement in the office that I hold
' now, nor did we object in practice to a modification which
has been spoken of, beyond this- but, for my own part, I
never will be guilty of the quackery of putting my
name to a scheme which I believe in my conscience
will not work merely because it has a plausible appear-
ance. So much, therefore, of what as been said of
the relations of the present Government and the Christian
races in the East. Shortly before this war broke out I was
asked in the House of Lords what would be the course of
policy with regard to Turkey and Servia, and I said that as
between the insurgents and as between the Government that
our line would be one of strict neutrality so long as the war
lasted until mediation became possible. That is the course
which we took with regard to Bosnia and Herzegovina; and
I only the other day, just before the close of the Session, I was
. asked by a foreign official, a diplomatist, what we should
I have to say to a proposal of what he called administrative
autonomy in these Provinces of Bosnia and Herzegovina, to
which I gave answer—which you will find in the Blue-book—
to the effect that, in point of principle and policy, we, the
British Government, saw no objection to such an arrange-
ment, although, at the same time, it was mentioned that
there were various difficulties of a local character which
must be removed, to which I know those who are best
acquainted with the East attach the greatest importance, but
until we saw our way to get over this difficulty we were not
prepared to commit ourselves toads. And if any one says that,
as between the Christian races of Turkey and the Government
of Turkey our policy has been one of hostility to any
arrangement between those races, I say that is a charge
which I defy you to quote from any words uttered by me or
by my colleagues. (dear, hear) As to the future, we are
doing all in our power to bring about an armistice and
peace as soon as may be, and in that respect I think I am
able to say that all the Powers of Europe are cordially united
with us. As to the arrangements to be made they must be
t dependent on the concerted action of all Europe, and so you
will understand that the nature of them is not such as is pos-
sible for me to enter upon at present. For these unfortunate
Bulgarians who have suffered so much, they have no doubt
a right to such reparation as it is now possible to make.
(Cheers.) They have also the undoubted right to the
signal, conspicuous, and exemplary punishment of those
who have been the offenders, and I think they may also
fairly claim, in one manner or the other, that we should take
steps such as will prevent the recurrence of similiar ac-
tions. (Hear.) For the general question, 11 I were speaking
to men who take a less calm, rational view of the situation
than you seem to take, I should remind them that if humanity
is a virtue, justice is a virtue also; and I have no doubt
you will consider that it is not reasonable nor just, to say
nothing of prudential considerations, to denounce a whole
race—or rather all those who hold one religion, the Maho-
medans of Turkey—and make all suffer for the crimes of a
few. lam sorry to say I have heard very often of late in
language that would be hardly justified—people say it, and
a gentleman said it to-day—that Turkey should be blotted
out from the map of Europe. But do you suppose they
would rea without a struggle? Da you believe you could
bring about a revolution of that kind without provoking a
religious war 2—a war which would excite feelings of fana-
ticism between the two races of the very highest pitcla,
and it is possible in all probability that you would
, have massacres committed of a character compared to
1 which what has been done already in Bulgaria would be
1
nothing. Even if that were the result at whatever cost
or advantage, if there were no Turkish Government re-
maining anywhere in Europe. still the Mahomedan pro-
blem would not be solved. Whether you like it or not, the
Mahomedan population would still remain; there would be
mixed up as in Asia Christians and Mahomedans, and the
same as in India, where there are millions of Mahomedatue
and Christians mixed together, and who must of necessity,
so remain. I do not think you can do this Eastern Ques-
tion a greater injustice, Ido not believe that we can do,
anything that would prejudice our position more than if, '
in our well-meant and kindly feelings of indignation against ;
the atrocities, we were to hold language and display a feel-
ing against the whole Turkish and Mahomedan races such 1
as would excite feelings of mutual animosities between the ;
two religions. Say what you will, you can hardly say too '
much in condemnation of those who have been guilty, but do
not let us confound the innocent with the guilty; and let me
add just this word more, do not suppose that because we are
looking at these questions from a friendly, if not a purely
philanthropical, point of view—do not suppose that all
foreign Powers and foreign politicians are looking at it with
the same view. I say do not ask your Government to do that
which is impossible, because if you take that course you will
put it out of our power to do anything at all. Now, gentle-
men, I think I have gone through the various topics to which
you reverted, and it only remains for me to apologise for
having oocupied so much of your time.
A Memeer of the Deputation asked what chance there was
of the Canstitutional reforms of Midhat Pasha being ac-
cepted.
Mr. .1 Merriman said he was sure that it was the wish of
the deputation that no interrogations should be put to the
Minister. (Hear, hear.)
Lord Darby rejobsed(to the questioner: If my friend knows
what are the Constitutional reforms which Midhat Pasha
Proposes to carry out, he knows more than I do. (Laughter.)
I am quite aware that Midhat Pasha has very large and
liberal ideas as to the introduction of reforms into the
Ottoman Administration, but I am not aware of the
character of his proposals, and, even if r knew them, I
should not be prepared to say anything upon them without
some previous examination and study. (Hear, hear.)
IThe deputation thanked the Minister and withdrew.

iiild
lut

I thafl
recruit

Immediately after the first deputation had with-
drawn, the noble lord received a deputation from the
Working Men's Peace Association, which was intro-
duced by Mr. Cremer, who, after explaining that
each member of the deputation represented a branch
of the association, the agencies for which existed in all
parts of the country, said that by means of those
agencies they had been able to gather the opinion of
working men in regard to the Bulgarian atrocities and
the position of the Eastern question, which were em-
bodied in the memorial as follows :

[do.
the
dew
tom

"MY LORD.—A low months ago many of our country-
men feared there was a danger of our once more inter-
-0
tering in the Eastern struggle on behalf of Turkey.
Subsequent events, however, have so completely changed
the =rent of public opinion, that the tendency becomes
every day greater of our being called upon to actively
oppose
her. Against, however, any armed intervention
1 on either side, we, with the experience of the past to
guide us, have again and again protested. Today, while
expressing our satisfaction that this country has refrained
from taking any active part in the struggle, and our great
regret that the Christian races of Turkey should have
thought an appeal to the great Powers of Europe for a re-
dress of their grievances would have been useless, and
therefore that they have felt the neceuity of an appeal
to arms, we nevertheless deeply lament that our Government
should have refrained from placing on record its immediate
and emphatic protest against the horrible atrocities com-
mitted by the Turks in Bulgaria—atrocities by which the
Turks have placed themselves outside the pale of civilization,
proved that they were unworthy the support accorded them by
, Western Europe in the Crimea, and demonstrated how utterly
1 Jutile and wicked was the effort to uphold such a corrupt
flovernment, and maintain the power of such an immoral and
1 cruel race of fanatics. The more especially do we regret the
' absence of such immediate protest, as we remember with
shame and confusion that it was our national folly which twenty
years ago bolstered up and prolonged the existence of the
Turkish empire, and that, but for our interference justice
I would have been done to the Christian races of the East,
and the world would have been saved the thrill of
'horror which is now running through it. Whilst, how-
ever, reprobating in the highest degree the fiendish con-
duct of the Turks, we cannot but regard such conduct
and the horrors incident to all warfare as the outcome
of the institutions of force which rulers persist in up-
bolding and employing for the settlement of their dis-
*ttes. Our immediate object in addressing you, is to ex.
, press the earnest hope that the Government will not allow
' another day to pass without the withdrawal of our fleet from
)136s1ka Bay, and further that, in the interests of peace, the
:Government will use its influence in conjunction with the other
Powers to secure the absolute independence of Herzegovina.
'Bosnia, Bulgaria, and Servla ; so that the chronic state of
warfare between the fatalism of Turkey and the progressive
Melt of hoz °novice, Okla thruotalii CM Rug 412Q11 400
,
.1i4.4.410(

th;

involve Western Europe in strife, may be terminated, and the
Eastern Question settled on a satisfactory basis. More-
over, we believe, justice demands that the Turkish
Government should be called upon to indemnify to the full
extent of their losses those whom they have so cruelly plun-
dered and outraged, and in the event of Turkey refusing to
concede the complete independence of her subject races and
making restitution to them, that our Ambassador shall be
Withdrawn from Constantinople until such concession be
made; and the Tarki,h Government informed that so far as
this country is concerned no further protection will ho ac-
corded her. And we trust that no special regard for the inte-
rests of bondholders, undue j-alousy of Russian influence, fear
of disturbing the balance of power, or of alienating the
Mahomedana of ladle will prevent our Government from
ioing its duty by expressing its righteous indignation at
,e monstrous cruelties of the Turks, and using its best en.
yours to settle the Eastern dlfticulty on the basis of tab
tplete independence of the Christian races of Turkey."
• After some observations had been made by Mr.
Lucraft, Mr. Savage, Mr. Hancock, Mr. Joiner, Mr.
Pratt Evans, and Mr. Passmore Ed wm di, Lord Derby,
after making a few preliminary remarks, said :
With regard to the war that is now going on in Servile I
have seen some reports of rather a vague character as t 3 the
misconduct of the Turkish troops, and I have this morning
telegraphed to know if there is any truth in them. We have
• dist!". welshed military officer at the Turkish Head-quarters,
and I may tell you—for I do not know that it should be any
secret—that my principal object in sending him there was
that I thought his presence at Headquarters would exercise
a favourable influence and that more care would be taken in
.reventing any such lamentable excesses as those of which we
eye heard, as there would be leas likelihood of such things
isappening under the eye of an English officer. When we
send a military man in that position I need hardly tell you
he has absolutely nothing to do except to look on and report as
to what he may see. Mr. Lucraft tell* us of the &alive of
working men to war—a dislike with which I cordially Byrn-
. thin ; but when he goes on to denounce standing armies
generally I am obliged to make some reservation. In the
first place, I do not see why we are to disarm unless our
neighbours disarm also. England, too, has charged it-
self with immense dependencies not yet accustomed
to constitutional government, and with such de-
pendencies I do not see how we can dispense with a standine
army to keep order and protect civilization. It does not at all
follow that those who are least sensible of the evils of war
are those who shrink from committing themselves to any
assertion as to the right or wrong of all ware. I am very much
afraid that we are not at present likely to see the end of war;
but, at the same time, there has been a very marked ten-
dency to settle European affairs by general conference of the
leading Powers. (Hear, hear.) That has been the tendency
of Europe certainly within the present generation, and this
utmost has been done under all British Governments to en-
courage the feeling. I must notice the remark of the gentle-
man who said that an impression was existing in the minds of
some people that England was standing in the way of the
settlement of this Turkish quarrel. That is not the
elate, and never has been the case. We have always
been willing to act with the other Powers, but it
could not be expected that we should entirely surrender
our own judgment in deference to that of others. We dis-
sented from a proposition that emanated from Berlin, and
stated our reason for the dissent, as the proposition
appeared to us to be one of an impracticable character; but
we never have abandoned either the hope or the wish to
arrange this matter by common consent. We are acting in
that manner now, and are trying to obtain an armistice in
the hope that arrangements may be made that will lead to
immediate negotiations for peace. As to same of the remarks
in this memorial I should not be treating you with the frank-
ness I feel you deserve if I did not state my dissent from
what you say about the Crimean War. I think the Crimean
War was an unfortunate event, and it might perhaps have
been avoided by frank and open explanations between the
Powers—(hear, hear)—but I cannot agree in calling it a
national folly. I would rather not say what I think might,
perhaps, have happened to the Christian races if the war
had not occurred. Neither do I think that the English fleet
ought to be withdrawn from Besika Bay. As I have ex-
plained again and again, it was brought there, together with
the fleets of other nations, at the request of the British
Minister, and to act as a check upon any acts of fanaticism
that might have arisen in the revolution that appeared im-
pending when the 'Sultan was notoriously insane, and a
change of government was imminent. That state of things
then caused the utmost alarm among the Christian popula-
tion, and Sir Efenry Elliot received the warm thanks of the
leading Christians of all classes for having taken that step
for their protection. With regard to obtaining Independence
for tholse Provinces, and so settling the Eastern Qaestiorr
in a day, I think that is a very sweeping proposition.
I can only say those gentlemen must take a very
sanguine view of matters to think this can be settled in a day.
I can hardly at the present moment tell you what would be
the terms far a settlement; but we shall act with the other
Powers, and shall endeavour,
,to the utmost of our ability, to
act in accord with them, and so that when our united voices is
heard it is sure to be respected. Something has been said as to
the Bulgarians and as to what they ought to claim by way of
reparation for the sufferings they have undergone. I agree in
the general prinolple of the idea, and am of opinion that
reparation is due to them. (Hear, hear.) I think we
have a right to demand the punishment, at any rate, of
the leaders in these crimes, and we have a right to claim
security against similar outrages for the future. For the
rest you must remember that I cannot express to you the
views of the Government It would be unwise for it to put
forward Its own opinion and commit itself to any proposed
terms of peace without consultation with the other Powers.
We are in consultation with the various European Powers,
and I shall be heartily glad if the end of it is that a matte-
factory peace can be concluded. I think that is all that I
can say on the matter.

I a cilitti

The deputation retired, after thanking the Minister
for his reception of them.

A CORRECTION.

The preceding report of Lord Derby's speech in reply to the
deputation of working men, is taken from The Times of
Tuesday. In connection with it The Times of Wednesday
publishes the following letter
notice in your report of my answer to the
deputation of working men at the Foreign Office
yesterday a few errore, the more important of which I
shall be glad to correct.
Speaking of the various Provinces of the Turkish
Empire which have separate Constitutions, I am re•
ported to have said :—"I need not refer to Servia and
Montenegro, for you know the situation of these Pro-
vinces well enough." The countries I mentioned were
" Servia and Roumania."

After alluding to the abandonment by the Porte in
1867 of the right to keep a Turkish garrison in Bel-
grade, I went on to say :
"Nor have we objected in practice to modifications such
as I speak ef being extended beyond the limits in which they
have taken place. But, for my own part, I will never be
guilty of the quackery of putting my name to a scheme
whica I believe in my conscience will not work, merely
because it has a plausible appearance, and looks well on
paper."
Subsequently, in dealing with the proposal to expel
the Turks from Europe, and in referring to the lan-
guage which has been employed in regard to them, I
used words to the following effect
"And recollect, even if that result, at whatever cost,
were accomplished—even if no Turkish Government were
left remaining anywhere in Europe—still the Mahomedan
problem would not be solved. Whether you like it or not,
whether you wish It or not, there will still be Asia—l do
not speak of India—bat there will be in Turkish Asia many
millions of Christians and Mahomedans living mixed
together, and who must of necessity so remain. Ido not
think we could do these Eastern Christians a worse service,
or do anything more calcnlated to prejudice their position
than if, in any however well-meant and kindly feeling
towards them, or in natural resentment against the atroci-
ties that have been committed, we were to hold language and
display feeling against the whole of the Mahomedan races of
Turkey, such as would excite and keep alive that mutual
animosity between the two religions which It is our object to
diminish as far as possible." •
Towards the conclusion I am reported to have said:—

"Do not suppose, because we are looking at these questions
from a friendly, it not purely, philanthropical-point of view,
that all foreign Powers and foreign politicians are looking at
it with the same view."

The words I believe myself to have used were :

"Do not suppose, because we are looking at these ques-
tions from a mainly, if not purely, philanthropic point of
view, that all foreign Pcwers and foreign politicians are
looking at it exclusively from the same point of view."

I am, Sir, your obedient servant,
Foreign Office, Sept 12.

DERBY.