The Dorset County Express and Agricultural Gazette.
Dorchester, Dorset, England, 1858-01-12 00:00:00

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select eommitbse,
Mr. grow% the olerk, WOO made a like moonlit request,
whieh wee ordenel alio to be referred to a mime committee.
The Rey, Mr. Templer then proceeded to read the
subjoined edrreepondesiee in the following order, nits.
rating, ea he Went &lane, explanations contained either
In the letter of Mr. Brown, or in that written by him.
self Du. 1:

J,4.1

Office of Commissioners In Lunacy,
19, Whitehall Place,
let December, 1867.
flm,—Tbur letter of the 26th October last has been under the
oonsidenstion of the Cemmlesionere. In reply, I am directed
to refer you to the letter of the 22ad Octobs, addremed to you
from thA office, in which the power. of the Committee to
purchase and take • lease of lands are specially adverted to and
diseuesed. The Cobunterloners continue to entertain the same
opinion as is mtproieW In that lest mentioned letter. The
Committee of Vlelbors derive their sole power to take and hold
lead from the Lunette Asylums Act, 1868. They can only Pur-
chaos land (in consideration of money paid or of a rent
reserved), or take $ lesee thereof for 60 years, or (for the mks
of employing patient..) rent land from year to year. Beyond
them liming preeenbed by sec. 82 and 88 of the Act, their
power, In the opinion of the Commiscioners, does not extend.
At the mama time, it will be obeerved that the 86th section of
the Act enables the Visitors to deal with parties " haring
limited interests ;' and the ViAtent will probably think it light
to consult their legal sdvlsere how fir this section facilitates
their acquiring land from Kr. Sheridan as euggeeted In your
letter; not, however, for 14 year., but for f' yearn, or in fee.
The Commissioners Mire been informed that • Biro, rum of
money hoe been voted for the pummels of the County Asylum,
and they assure themselves that the amount will be expended
In such k way as will beuielit in the greatest degree the insane
poor of Dermeshire.
It seems obvious that to obtain the fee-simple of a sulhcient
quantity of land at • cheap or moderate roes will best promote
the intermits of the patients as seen as of the county heel?. The
Comrekerionere are metalled that • coneidemble amount is
neceessry in order to Justify the Vinton he adding materially
Wills present buildings. And they would not be able, or
dispoeed„ te recommend to Secretary Sir George Grey, that the
portion of land now proposkd for purchase shooldlie When
other than set small Fart only of the lend to be acquired pre-
viously to their commencing the intended additions to the
buildings.
lam to add-that the amount of purchase money Intended to
be given to Mr. Stitreand Kr. Sheridan haring been reported
to some members of this Board wi being very large in propor-
tion to the contity of,iffind to be obealned. I an, aluthd to
Inquire tv wiesteuxua meter be paid to thmegentletnen
respectliely:and "upon setwit grounds such sums (If exceeding
the usual rate for rand) havir been deeided upon
I am, Sir, your obedient Servant,
JOHN FORSTER,
Secretary.
Mr. John Etroyrn,
Clerk to Visitors, Dorchester.

Dorchester, Forstori Asylum, llth Dee., 1857.
But,-1 lowg.to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the
let MM.; leb hoe been eubmitted fo the Chairman of the
Vieltors, awl De by directs u. o raplyth.., and to state—
that iroun the cormspoodenee which has4manated from the
Boerd. of the fitaptioledoneas to Lunacy it eppears to baths&
optokm thaa the 'Minim of Visitors to amain- land for' Val pur-
wwwit br Lanatio hulking; It ehottelled aad !hatted exploited),
by the Lunatic daylunta' Act, 1853, and that they dlant4

avail themselves of the 19 and 20 Vie., e. 120, aa regard@
leasing, dc.
The Commissioners We also of opinion that it will hest pro-
mote the interests of the patients, as well as of the county, to
purchase the fee in preference to leasing.
They have also intimated that before they would feel disposed
to sanction any plan, for the enlargement of the Asylum a
considerable portion of land must be obtained, which ought to
be at the ratio of not less than one acre to every four patients.
Another very important miggestion has been made by the
Coinnuesionen, vlx.,—that instead of enlarging the present
buildings, it would be more beneficial and economical to have
detached and auxiliary building. erected.
The Commissioners have been Informed that the Visitors of
Porston Asylum have, after many meetings and consultations,
agreed on certain plans for the enlargement of the Asylum,
and that the Court of Quarter fieselons have approved thereof,
and voted the necessary money for carrying them out; as also
for the purchase of land in fee of l'ilr. Sheridan and Mr. Blurt
as a alto for the proposed new budding% contiguous to, and
edjoining the present building.; and it may be observed, that
this piece of Mr. Sheridan's land will vest in the Visiton the
right of water for the uffie of the Asylum, which is now in a
Krintemmessa.ure dependant on the courtesy of Mr. Sheridan and

The Commisidoners have also been informed, that the Visitors
on obtain land from Mr. Sheridan and Mr. Stud for agrioid-
tura! purposes, es also (on the opposite eide of the turnpike
road) from Mr. Devenish.
Mr. Sheridan cannot lease for more than 14 years, unless
with the aid of the lends Clauses Consolidation Act; he can,
however, eell in fee, but has stated that he would not be
willing to sell more than 12 screw
Mr. Sturt has the control at his property, and can either
lease or isell, but it is believed he would not be willing to sell
a very lerge portion of land, which would tend to depreciate
the value of his farm; but, perhaps, he would not object to sell
12 sore.; this would make up, with Mr. Sheridan's and the
Asylum lands, about 95 acres.
As retrards Mr. Devenislis hind, it h. been stated that he
must obtain nopevial Act of Parliament to give • title, and he
has nientioned his willingness to procure one.
Under thee circumstances the Visitors feel quite unable to
proceed further in the businees, until the Commissioners in
Lunacy have stated positively what they will require (in fact,
an ultimatum), especially upon the two points before referred
to, via. —the number of acres, and the detached buildings.
The Chairman has already informed the Commissioners that,
supposing the plan of detached buildings should be adopted, it
would involve • considerable outlay of money, as well as •
serious alteration of the present buildings for requisite
offices, de.

I am requested respectfully to submit the whole for the
consideration of the Commissioners in Lunacy, who rasy, pee-
hope, on on consultation, deem It advisable to have the opinion
of their architect, and direct him to visit the Asylum, view
the same, aad the lands, and report thereon to them.
The Visitors will now await the Commissioners' answer,
which they hope soon to receive, SY their quarterly meeting
will be holden on or about the DM instant, and the Quarter
Sessions on the fah of January.
In reply to your inquiry respecting the purehase.money
intended to be paid to Mr. Stun and Mr. Sheridan for the
land necessary for enlargement of the buildings, As., the valu-
ation was made as follows :
Mr. Sturt, 4 acres of land .. . L6O
Ditto for new buildings, on removal of the present
farm-house and appurtenanees, stable, barn, cot-
tage., As., to another site .. 6,686
£6,086

Mr. Sheridan, 2 acres of land
Ditto for new buildings, on removal of dairy-house
and appurtenances, stables, Sc., to another Ate 1,000

E 1,270
I remain Sir, your most obedient Servant,
Jiro. BROWN,
Clerk to the Visitors.
John Forster, req.,
Secretary to the cgeoiienfonere in Lunacy,
10, WlltebmJl Plam, London.

(COMMIAIIIONNAIe ULTIMATUM.)
Office of Comadaeloners In Lunacy,
19, Whitehall Place, &W.,
rd December, 1817.
fink—Your letter of the Ilth Instant has been laid before
the Boned, and was considered at their brat meeting.
Upon the first point as to whieb the Visitors of the Dorset-
shire Asylum now &sire to receive • final answer, the Com-
missioners direct sue to Inform you that they still entertain the
opinion referred to In your letter, That the quantity of land
attached to the Asylum ought not to be leas than in She pro-
portion of one acre to four patients; but they are so unwilling(
to add further to the delays which already have too long In-
tercepted the supply of proper accommodation for the pauper
lunttice of the county of Dorset that they do not feet they
should be instilled In recommending the Secretary of State to
refuse his =notion to the erection of additional buildings on a
site compiislng altogether SS acres. At the rune tune the
Commiailoners c•nnot altogether put aside the hope that Mr.
Sheridan and Mr. hurt may yet be induced to sell. larger
portion of their Pinda If the Viggitors found it still prac-
ticable to obtain an amount of land more nearly approxi-
mating to the proportion abovenamed, the Oommiedenere
are well assured that In a oounty where so many of the inmates
are necessarily drawn from the agricultural class, the ultimate
advantage of the arrangement would amply compensate for
any additional expense that might for the present be involved
In It.

—Adverting to the second point, of providing accommodation
by means of detached and auxiliary buildings, on which the
Visitors desire also a. final reply, and in reference to which
they lately addressed the Board, I am direkted to inform you
that the nature of the suggeetion made on this subject hag
been misunderstood. lam Instructed, therefore, though with
no wish on the part of the Board to re-open any discussion on
the point, to request you to explain to the Vleitors that, to
give effect to what the Commissionere intended would not
have necessitated either the " considerable outlay of money "
or the " serious alteration of the present buildings" to which
your letter of the 11th inst. alludes. The suggestion had
reference particularly to that portion of the patients who are
habitually and regularly employed upon the farm, or in the
wash-houses ; and it originated in the conviction of the Com-
missioner. that a very eimple and inexpensive description of
accommodation would euflice for this class of Inmates. And
they too strongly feel this not again to impresa upon the
Visitors the expediency of keeping it in view in designing
the plena for the enlargement of the Asylum. The detached
buildings should be provided In connection with the coech-
house on the female side, and in proximity to the farm on the
men's side ; and it oocurs to the Commissioner., that a great
saving might be effected by rendering available for this pur-
pose the farm-house, dairy-house, and .table, now existing on
the proposed ate, Instead of removing altogether those emo-
tions, as would appear to be the intention of the Vialtore.
I am, Sir, you obedient servant,
JOHN FOFtSTER,
Mr. John Brown, Dorehestar. Secretary.

December 1, 1667.
Li—The Yalta,* of the Dorset Asylum are much obliged
for the lithograph and the letters from the superintendent.
They do not, however, five that minute information on several
!natters which would enable them to oorns to • oorreot eon-
elusion, nor could they amertaln this without sending the
superintendent to visit some, If not all, of thorns places men.
Monad, I myealf do not at present see how the plans would
suit um, beau' the whole scale of our Asylum is inadequate
even for the proem{ numbers, and wholly so for any enlarge-
ment. The kitchen, larders, board-num, store•room, laundry,
wash.houes, baths, washinprooms, attendente' aporttnents-4n
short, every sooommodation that en Asylum require. musks
new ; and more than all, • ohapel, of which it prawn* we
have none, and the patients go to the neighbouring shun:hes,
Now, if all these reoplumosiations are to be provided in each of
these amanita building*. I do nut i.e In what they differ from
two lunatic asylums in which Remade complete estehilehments
would his required, and 1 cannot conceive that such buildings
entild be greeted for 16 pauper ;meanie or even for 60 I cad
should think this the enlargement of our meant Asylum ma
be effected cheaper time Mese cull worst* Asylums,
Hut, whetaver our determination nay be regarding the bull&
ice, the landluseition mud first be settled; cud I reepectfully
urge on the sttention of the Oommimeionsre to rive WI en
OfliWOT, whether they will be estialled 11,1 to Out the ileesione
hive riven their anima to, that le ie.-
• - -

I.P.
To purchase of Me. Start on the north gide of
she Adylum , , 6 0 0
Plat of Mr, Ihsvklon on the south ado 1 0 0
Land belonging to She aliquot I 0 0

11 0 0
To ronl of Kr. IThorldlan and Yr. I4trl for
arlaulitinn porno= movoot. k 0 0
• •

Ms dial ibon tsaishblal ao bur on out own frwbold land,
ani_tr
A;l49llh2riu,v7t7Enstx
I am, 111 r, your obodlonloorronl,
JAMS AOLAND
Cholnnen of As Doted oounir Luna Asylum.
To J. World., 1184.

The Rm. Mr: Templer remarked that the Cominie.
lioness' Ultimatum ainoluted to thie—MM they were
astiefied with what the Vieikwe proposed, but the quer
non wee, could they obtain Mr. Sheridan's lend on a 60
yea& Mr. Sheridan had power to lease for 14
yam, end wee willing, sib. might be empowered by
the Londe Clawed Sof, to leme for 91 year' but under
any otreumetaneee he sould not lame for 40 years, and
wee unwilling to sell hie 19 and 14 soma The part of
the Commiasfoners' liner relative to one awe being r.-
gained for every four petiants wm4 equivocal and not dear.
Did they require by one more to four patients that men
women and Andrea should be inoltided among the
patients? or wee it on. acre to each four able working
patients?
Lord Poaixtii In the last melons we hed all that
out when Mr. Gordon and Lord filhefteebury were
hme.
Mr. TIIMYttll did not understand so, for he had sent
letters to about 14 or 15 soloing in the aunties of
Bucks Lancashire, Rants, Devon, Somerset, and others
specifically inquhing how many male patients each
asylum had ; how many awes were under cultivation; how
many males on an /Xenia engaged in agriculture; how
many aorta under spade husbandry by patient.; 'mold
more land be so cultivated, and how many eerie; did
they employ horses; how many implement. in hus-
bandry, Ito. The objeot was to tart the Commissioners'
returns, and the replies did not at all agree with the
Commlisioners' statements. The rev. speaker held a
return which made him bound to say that 35 acres would
be amply euffictient for anyptupose desired by the Court.
Generally speaking two patients and a half were needed
to cultivate one acre. At present about 20 patients
were employed, and the average just given by him
would be the same if the Dorset Asylum were doubled
and they had 40 so employed. Hence, but two acres
for five patients were requisite, and he therefore con-
cluded that if the Court obtained the proposed 35
acres it would be adequate. He did not think they
could employ more pataenta than the whole 40. Re
oonfessed a penchant for what was called spade hus-
bandry, and contended that any other system necessita-
ting hired labourers and hired horses would involve the
' Court in extensive affairs, they would be better with-
mt. Instead of the Court becoming regular farmers,
which was neither desirable nor for the good of the
county, he held that the object of their land cultivation
was simply to employ such patients as were sufficiently
' eonvaieneent to accomplish it. Submitting, then, that
the quantity of land named by hiss was enough, the
only question for consideration was, he must say,
whether or not Mr. Sheridan would sell his land. That
gentleman was not present, and it was known that he
would not cell; but that hon. gentleman was willing to
lease land for 21 years. As, by one clams of the Act,
the Court had power to lease by the year, he thought
the Commissioners ought to be satisfied with all years'
lease. The land of Mr. Sheridan was deemed by Mr.
Luolcham and the rev, speaker the best for the purpose
in question • and the laud chosen was situated on • fiat
hill-top, whereas Mr. Sturt's land was very steep and
necessitated a road through it, which would be highly
objectionable. He thought the county by securing the
land selected would obtain all that was required- but
what oould be done ; what oould they do ?
Lord PORTMAN : The best thing we can do is to re-
ceive your report first of all. (Hear.)
Mr. TIMPLIS continued—The Court was in this case,
if Mr. Sheridan would not sell nor Mr. Stark then that
proposition was thrown into the gutter.
Lord PORTMAN : Had not we better take this report
first and discuss these two or three points afterwards
Mr. TIMPLER then moved that the report be re.
oeived.
The CHAIRMAN said the question before the Court
was very simple—namely, that the report be remised.
If this were 'Armed the iinportant matters tuned in
the report weld be then considered_ This Court, he
believed, was fully of opinion that at the expiation of
eight years it was high time that the great natation

should be decided, and finally, as to what was to be
done towards enlarging the County Lunatic Asylum,
and providing accommodation for pauper lunatics.
The motion was put and affirmed.
Lord PORTILIN said—As the Committee of Visitors for
the ensuing year had now to be appointed, and as he
had to move the addition of a great many more names
thereto, he would read the list of Visitors of the County
Lunatic Asylum as appointed last year. He believed
them to be—the Rev. Mr. Templer, Rev. Mr. Yeatman,
Mr. Robert Williams, Rev. Mr. Cambridge, Mr. Augustus
Foster, Mr. Moyer, Mr. Sheridan, M.P. Mr. Middle-
ton, Mr. H. C. Goodden, Mr. Porcher, Lord Digby,
Mr. Herbert Williams, Mr. Calcraft, M.P., Mr. James
Henning, and Mr. J. Edward Bridge. The noble Lord
continued: I wish to state to the Court that I felt it my
duty to write to request a copy of this list to be fur-
-1 nished to me as one of the magistrates of the county, for
the purpose of knowing who were the gentlemen to
whom the county had to look for the performance of the
, duties under the County Lunatic Asylum Act, and I
received for answer that the clerk was directed not to
I give me that information. I, of course, had no right to
ask it except as a private favour. No magistrate has
I any right to interfere except in this public Court • but
I I thought it would tend to the convenience of the (Lurk,
' to me, as a magistrate, and also to the Court, if I
happened to have the list before we met. Not being
able, however, to receive it in that form, I applied to
the Clerk of the Peace, to whom I had a right to apply,
and he furnished the list which I have now read; and
' most convenient for the Court it has turned Out, for I
see none other—the Chairman not happening to have
the names. Now, my object in asking for the list was
this : I thought it was most desirable that something
efficient should be done in reference to the Lunatic Asy-
lum. And I believe we can do nothing efficient unless
we strengthen the body of the Visitors by the addition
of gentlemen who will really take some pains to carry
out the work connected with the asylum. I hope to
get • magistrate from every division of the county, that
all may be represented in this great question. At the
same time I wish to state that I wanted to see what sort
of attendance the Visitors of the Lunatic Asylum had
given to their duties. As I had no means, however, of
ascertaining what the attendance of Visitors has been,
I assume—and I wait to be contradicted if I have
assumed it wrongly—that they have not acted in accord-
ance with the law, and that two justices have not once
in two months visited the asylum, and examined into all
the details which the law requires. Ido not know what
their attendance has been at the asylum, but I assume
that they have not attended, and until lam contradicted
I say they have not done what the law requires. Now,
if there is one thing required for the due management
of the County Lunatic Asylum, it is that the magistrates
entrusted with the duty shall perform that duty: for
if you look at what happened to Scotland, and the tre-
mendous reproach which has fallen on that part of the
empire through the neglect of the lunatics, I am quite
sure that the magistrates of the county of Dorset only
require to be told that those gentlemen, who, probably,
scarcely know that their names are on the list, have been
reappointed Visitors of the asylum, and have not done
that which the law demands • and I think the few who
are on the list will not be found fault with should they ask
other magistratee to be joined with them to accomplish
what the law peremptorily requires. And let me say that
if there are any gentlemen who, knowing their responsi-
bility, refuse intake any part, we must an a whole body
take our turn, and eitablish a rota or attendance for the
purpose of carrying out such an important ACC of Par,
munent. A magistrate may perhaps say, "It is exceed-
ingly inconvenient for Inc to attend in such a month."
Well, o/ course, suitable arrangement could be wade if
Visitors, who undertake the les Ibility of the 144
in would meet once the year fix amts. They oo
then divide the, attendance amongst theinself es an
comply with the statute • and should a gentleman acci-
dentally be unable to attend on the day when by rota he
ought to attend, he, as • matter of course, would get
some other gentleman to take his place and attend for
him, so as to make stire the Act of Parliament is obeyed.
But if the matter is to be left to chance, if one gentle-
man is ill, and another is absent, and nobody goes to ful-
fil the behests of the law, we shall be liable to a very
heavy censure. I may add that • similar occurrence
took place at this Court in respect to the trial of pri-
soners, so few magistrates remaining on the bench. A
great deal was said about it, and I remember saying as
now: "Put upon us all the duty; let us all hove the
rota; let every magistrate take his turn, and i/ he
cannot come himself let him get • friend to attend for
him ; but do not let us flinch from doing that which is
positively required." Had I known what the attend-
ance of Visitors has been I should have been able to say,
no doubt, that there are magistrates who do not, who
never can, and who never would attend. Now, as I
cannot ascertain this I hope in what I am about to pro-
pose I shall not leave out any; and if I do not propose
a magistrate from every division, and if I omit a name
from any part, I hope you will fill iip the gap. I beg to
propose that Mr. J. Gundry, Mr. Sorrell, Mr. Okedon,
Mr. Marwood Yeatman, Mr. Allford, Mr. James Far-
quharson, jun., the Rev. C. W. Bingham, Mr. J. Han-
sel, Mr. C. Parke Mr. C. J. Parke, and Mr. Falwasser
be added to the list of Visitors of the County Lunatic
Asylum for the ensuing year.
Mr. PORCHRR was sure the noble lord had made ob-
servations which no one on the Committee of Visitors
did not value and entirely concur in. It was very im-
proper for Visitors to undertake duties they were not
ready to perform. He (Mr. Porcher) felt himself to
blame, inasmuch as during the last year he had been
absent. With regard to the objection mentioned by
the noble lord, the committee, of which he (Mr. Porcher)
had, pending the illness of the Rev. Mr. Templer. acted
as Chairman, the clerk having been asked to send the
book that the noble lord might see the attendance—
_ .

Lord PORTMAN : Oh, no, no—not the book. I only
asked him to give me • list.
Mr. PORCHICB oontinued to explain that the clerk ap-
plied to the committee in referenoe to Lord Portman's re-
quest, and he (Mr. Percher) who acted as temporary
Chairman certainly did object, because he did not
know whether the book might be removed, as the Com-
missioners might visit at any time whilst the document
was away. He however said, let Lord Portman have
all he requires except the whole book; and he (Mr.
Poreher) had no wish that every publicity should not be
given to the doings of the committee.
The Rev, Mr. TLIIPIAK seconded the motion made by
Lord Portman. During the whole of the lost quarter
be (Mr. Templar) had never been near the Asylum, and
he had been ill all the time. However, he hoped for
the future if his health wee better he ehould not have to
so put off what he had to do. There was a clause in the
Act of Peril/unapt he freely confeseed had never been
carried into execution, and that well the clause to the
effete that two Visitors at least should visit once in
every two months the asylum for lunatioe. Ono. or
twin he had picked up gentlemen in driving about—
Ur. /Myer was one—to oomply with the lams but this
was a fault into which he trusted Viaitora would not
again fall, It was of advantage that Visitors should go
to the asylum, because ailing in when preparation had
not been mule had the effect of keeping the ataff alive
and it wee easy for a Visitor to give the ofiloials proper
praise or otherwise. Hut though desirable tile duty had
certainly not been marled into execution, The best thing
they could do wee to do better for the future, (Hear,
hear.) That was what he was for, The auggaudlon of
the noble lord, relative to a rota fixing the attendance of
Visitors anording to satisfactory arrangement, was one
which he should be happy to fall in with nips, heartily,
for he knew very well that he ('Mr. Templer) had some-
times been the only Visitor during a half year,
Mr. COLOItat Jr M.P., desired to have hi. name *sok
from the lilt, Not acutely he had felt the just remark,
of the noble lord, for he wag sorry to ley lm did not go
to the ',glum ones lad year, Living SO mile. oiell was
extrans4 ineonvailent to attend, and he hard know
that it was of much use having pntlimurn on t sow
whew who irregularly attended. (The hon, membcr's
napalm ageordlngly.withdrewn.)
Lord POtirltall said Mr, Harley had **wanted to ad
mad Mr. Cartwright.
The Ciaittlialf prooeeded to put the motion, Veda
the statute the Court °odd not appoint less then Erten
Visitor., but any number above that might be appointed,
He wee very thankful to the noble lord for alluding to
one matter of very_ great important*, It would be
highly
.convenient it a rota of inagistratea eould be
adopted and arrangemente arrired at 40 A/ to ensure a
lull attendant* when the Wart sat for the trial of pri-
soners, It happened that the gravest offences were
often taken at the end of the guidons and dorhu the
led twelvemonth he mid his learned' friend had 'been
left In a very unfortunate position when needing the
great wisdom and experienos of Indian best qualified
to conduct particular oasee—frequently only two meets.
tratu being on the bench when dames of the utmoat
complicity, involving the hurled sentenoes, had to be
dealt with, He hoped 7or 8 magistrates Would remain
to the end of the present sessions, when he had reason to
know several important oases would some under tout.
deration. His name was second on the list of Visikirs,
but he should be happy to make Way for • more efficient
attender. He always visited the auluin once • year,
but lie assured the Court his duties apart from those of a
more public, nature were very onerous, and took up
many hours every week.
The Rev. Mr. Taman said the object of the com-
mittee was to mum gentlemen who would attend.
Hence gentlemen residing in the neighbourhood of the
asylum had deen selected.
The new oommittee was then agreed to.
Lord PORTMAN apprehended that at the last sessions
when considering the lunatic asylum matter the Court
quite made up their mind that the 5 And 30 acres should
be settled, and, as far as he mild collect from all the
letters read and referred to, 5 and 30 acres had been ac-
cepted. The question, then, between the Commissioners
in Lunacy and the new committee would be—the lease of
Mr. Sheridan's land. This would be • question for the
new committee to dud with, and the Court had better
leave it to them. The Court would accordingly at the
next sessions see what result had been arrived at. He
(the noble lord) must take this opportunity of congratu-
lating the Court on one point, and a very important one
—the Commissioners had directed that Mr. Moffat
should be paid his money, and Mr. Moffat had certified
that he had been paid. Mr. meat, therefore, was done
with. This was no small source of congratulation to
those who knew anything about the minor matters con-
nected with the asylum question. He (Lord Portman)
was sorry to say be had • further point to start, which
would affect the county. In reading the county sheet
he found a charge made for expenses of remora rent
and taxes, £2291*.- Bd. ; insurance, a 4a. 3d. •f, eee for
consecrating new burial ground in Charminster Church-
, yard, £46 es. 44. ; Rev. D. Clemetson, chaplain, £6O;
maintenance of 9 pauper lunatics, £186; Dr. Finch,
£582; removal of a pauper to Fisherton, £2 Sc. 9d.—
making • total of £1,1015 14s. 6d. To this sum the
ratepayers of the county would look with anxiety. He
had looked at the other aide of the sheet to see if there
was • corresponding charge to meet this payment.
Finding no corresponding payment he turned to see whe-
ther the charge was legal. The result was that he be-
lieved the charge to the county was not legal; and he
thought that if the Chairman of the Finance Committee
and the Finance Committee had adverted to the Lunatie
Asylum Act under which the Court now proceeded., and
if the Visitors of the asylum had likewise consulted the
Act—they would not have charged the county with tine
payment. Under the old Act of Parliament there was
a doubt upon the subject, and it was brought before the
Court specially by Mr. Templer, as Chairman of the
Visiting Committee, and Mr. iankes, who was the
Chairman of Quarter Sessions at the time, having some
doubt upon the point, took an opinion—
The Rev. Mr. TiMPLIS : My apprehension is that he
took Sir William Follett's opinion.
- -

Lord PORTMAN : Be it at might, it was an opinion,
and an order was made under an old Act of Parliament,
under te existing statute no man living, his lordship
believed, could set up that such payments were legal,

' except, perhaps, that for the nine pauper lunatics at
Is. Id. • day which was charged upon the county. As
he read the County Asylum Act, and he tr.ought it
would be found by others to berm too, it appeared that
out of the county rate was to be taken, under a specific
arrangement by mortgage or otherwise, all monies re-
quired for the purpose of building a lunatic asylum,
and all sums for the patients, whether in that county
asylum or any other asylum, were to he paid for entirely
, by the payment ordered to be made by the parishes for
I each pauper lunatic and which must not exceed 14s. e week.
I The Act was so specific upon the subject that 14s. a
Iweek should not be exceeded—that there was no pro-
vision whatever for paying any surplus. So that if the
I expenses exceeded its, a week, instead of raising more
I money to meet this inCrease, the expenses must be di-
minished. Thus, the law laid down, in point of fact, a
limit which could not be passed. Now, he (Lord
Portman) believed that limit included every charge for
the maintenance, the care, and the payment of officers,
of every lunatic patient under the charge of the county
of Dorset. Hence, the Money to the chaplain, £5O a
year, to Dr. Finch £582 18e. 7d., should come within thin
limit. He was not positive about the item of £229.
d forand
dthe es,
same way.
he
He
was not quite sure that the repairs of the asylum ;would
pertaining
it tdougthl:tretoPileirspar,
' not come out of the county rate, but upon the other
points he believed there was not the possibility of doubt
that they might not be charged upon the county rate-
payers, and they should be charged upon the parish
whose patient was in the asylum. Well, what was the
fact' Simposing 7s. 7d. per heed per week, or some such
amount—the charge made for every pauper patient in
the asylum—were insufficient, and instead thereof, say
Sc. 9d. had been charged to the parishes, all those ex.
' penses would have been paid out of legitimate funds.
Keepingdowntothe minimum charged for the patientein
the asylum, all the excess on account of patients sent to
Dr. Finch had been paid out of the county rate. Now,
as far as he could understand the law, he be-
lieved there was no power to charge the large expenses
he had pointed to upon the general county fund. •By
the 54th section of the Act—which was what be espe-
cially wanted to 0:11 the Chairman's attention to-Lit ap-
peared "that the total amount of such Weekly earns
for defraying such expense may also be sufficient to pay
the salaries of the officers and attendants." The "offi-
cers" included the chaplain, because in one other clause
were the words "the chaplain and other officers."
Therefore, if the chaplain were described as an "officer,"
it was quite clear he was one of the officers of the asy-
lum. .He (Lord Portman) believed, the whole matter
had arisen from proceeding under the old Act of Parlia-
ment, and that gentlemen' in the common finance and in
the lunatic matters, had not adverted to the change of the
law, and so made, if his lordship rightly interpreted the
statute, what was an illegal payment. There was no
doubt whatever thatboth would take tare no such charge
was made on the county ratepayer again. Ile did not
suppose any ratepayer would appeal to the rate and to
the Court on any of these questions, but let that which
was right be done forthe future; and say as Mr. Templer
said just now, "we have not been very careful hereto,
fore, but itis never too late to mend—the sooner we mend
the better it is for all parties." If there was any other
explanation needed he (Lord Portman) would be bevy)) to
give it, but he would not longer detain the Court with
explanations, as he was quite sure there could be no
doubt on the point lie hid mentioned.'
The Rev. Mr. TntlPLlnt admitted that, fir* ea. 14s.
a week was allowed, but if that sum were found inink
clehtlthe Visitors had a right tO ripply to the Court Of
Quarter Sessions for more. HO did not bold with thie
noble lord in regent to another point. He (Mr. Tent!
pled) well remembered bringii4oizrtlestion before thil
emit and the parishes cern thitt it would be
hard for them to pay Dr. inch for aceommodatinja
When it was the duty of the county to find ample diens
for all patients. The subjoet was debated two Or three
times, andlir. Banks,, who was then eliairearin said " Tltif
is a question which I shall pot answer off hand;" but
Mr. 'Templer WilB to hear from him at the following
Sessions. Meandhile Mi. Bankes had taken in opinioix
which he (Mr. Templer) believed to be that qf the At.
torney-General at the time, Sir W. Follett. The '
Chairman then said It had been justly argued that the,
county of Dorset not haviag found any building wherein '
to place lunatics, it was very hard for the parishes to be
called upon to make good the deficiency; and he ended
by pronouncing this opinion, that the extra sum above
the maintenspoe--7s. tod. or whatever the charge at Fors-
ton—should be placed to the county and that the counbr '
Might legally to pay it as in part of a building fmd.
This opinions Mr. Templer held; but the noble lord I
contended that such was illegal under the present Act.
Before, however, he (Mr. Templer) charged that item to
the parishes he would be prepared to move that the
Chairman take the opinion of some very good counsel
upon the point, and at sornefuture session, either himself
or the Clerk of the Peace, declare the result. Such a
step would be most satiafactory—net relying upon a law-
yer so good as the noble lord, nor on one so bad as him-
self (Mr. Templer). As to the new Act he had not
even compared it with the old one, and was unprepared
to say whether it was right or wrong. The best plan,
doubtless, would be to have another legal opinion, still
it was quite clear that the extra sum above what was
charged at Forston was paid by the county. The cost
to the county in one quarter had amounted to
£233 16e., or £960 a year. 'ruis was &large sum to pay
Dr. Finch annually for the hire of his buildings be-
cause the county had not a place to put the patients in.
Another year, if lunacy went on as of late, the sum
would be larger and reach £l,OOO, for ever since the ex-
istence of the asylum there had been an increase of
six patients per annum. At the last sessions they were
under 49 at Fisherton, whereas now there were 58
patients there ; but this rate next year would be
64; and before the contemplated building was
finished there would be he knew not how many.
Lord POETWAN : It Is only a reason for not charging
the county more than you ought.
Rev. Mr. Taunt% ; Oh, no Somebody must be
charged for it. We pay him so much for the secommo.
dation of his buildings when we ought to have them of
our own. I hag leave to propose that it would be more
satisfactory that an opinion be taken, to be delivered at
the next sessions, as to what is the right course for us to
take. _

--Lord PORTMAN t We will hear what the Chairman
bas to say. Probably Mr. Yealman will be able to tell
what is hia view upon it. If he haw any doubt at all
then it will be well to take the opinbn of the best lawyer
upon it. Bat always bear this in mind—that if you
charge this Ti. 7d. to the rano of the eounty that there
may bee refusal to pay the alone.
The CHAIRMAN apprehended the question was one of
the ximplest rissoripinn, it being the point whether the
eatery of the ohaplein should be charged to the ratepayers
of the eounty, as for Nome sonsiderelole time peat it had
been charged, or whether a eoinponoist paii•eharge
should be made against well respective perish to whielt
the several paupers might be found to belong. Whatever
might have been the praetioe of the Court under the an.
temelent statute and 0 Vie, eap. 106, that statute had
been repealed In Solo—with one single exeeption as to
the appointments made under it—by the lb end 17 Via
sap. V 7, which we' the only AM of Parliament the
Court and the Visitora could act by at present. And by
the Nth me, of this atatute, which waa of the 'Moonlit
deeeription, every committee of Vhdtore shall he A "um
to be °harped for the lodging, maintenance, noedleins,
oh/thing, care, and other expensea of each pauper lunalle
of any asylum I that the sum of sloth amount chill be
suMelent to defray the whole expenee:trialte for saeh
that
pauper lunatic at the total amutint siteh weekly
Mains to be levied upon overseers and gu lin" of parishes
to defray inch rowneel, may also be suffisisnt to pay the
salaries of the often and attandants I rush committee
may from tims to {tine vary tits amoimt of lush weekly
awns m oe..eion :nay rostra provided the casualties do
Cut Ile A larger sum than lee. a week and lithe les, a
week chill not be suffisient for the purpom, an applioa•
don is to be made to the Court of Quieter ilesidons
when a majority of NAVIN can Warp the lir. Thi
simple point te determine wee w kyilt Of 1101 the person
salad -the chaplain lams legally under the word
"Asir." By looking it (MAU eeEtion. of the Ask he
(the Chairman) tumid- powertiliesporiven to the Vtatem
to remove or dismiss peelione A ntusl, and the word
" eervafit" wee employed to er the term " abet"
Be (the Chairman) must my that he sever hide more
simple we to smokier, whether sitting in his own arm
shalt., or 111 Chairman of the Petty Sessions al Startitin•
eter or In the more imporermt position m Chairman of
Quarter Mission" i and be thought there could not be
the least doubt that among the Alan" the shaplain
In question MY one. Mr. Templer had asked tot an
opinion of monal to be taken. He (the Cheartnan)
when eluting in the adjoining Court often had applies,
llots from the bar in settlement eases playing for a meg
for tiouniel's opinion to be granted and not only had
he oonstantly refused to grant the applioation when the
me was seen to be so clear, that he who ran might reed
it, but when aoua was granted if gentlemen looked to
the Queen's Bench reports they might lee how many
Cowie of Quarter Sessions received raps over the
knuckles, the higher Court laughing at the oases sub.
!flitted. Now, it was possible that the great majority of
justices present would construe the alause as he had
oonstruerl it, and judge "chaplain" to come under the de-
nomination of "officer.' If so there was no need to
consult °anneal, and the sum involved, khO a year, might
readily be ditided into shillings to be paid by 010
VIITiOUS parishes according to the number of lunatics
they sent.
Mr. H. WILLIAMS begged to ask Lord Portman, for in-
formation simply, if the "any such mylum" found in
the 84th section, and to which the matter in discussion
related, included, in the particular ease of this county,
Dr. Finch'.?

_ .
Lard PORTMAN : Now you see the difficulty. First of
all assume it is • County Lunatic Asylum. A number
of people are sent to the County Lunatic Asylum, and
by the County Lunatic Asylum Visitors removed to
mme other asylum. The Visitors have power to remove
patients to another, and, pro tam°, that asylum is the
same as the County Asylum, and therefore liable in the
lame way.
Mr. WILLIAMS : That is just it.
Lord POSTMAN: And I can go on to suppose that it is
certified to certain justices who are examining a pauper
that the asylum is full. That patient must go to some
asylum, and he is sent. That is • charge upon the
parish and not • charge upon the county; and it cannot
be that. lonian, passing through Forston Asylum to tor.
Finch's can be leas • charge upon the parish than if he is
at once passed to Fisherion.
Mr. WILL/AMS : I cannot have the slightest doubt
about it.

Lord PORTMAN If the Court like to have an opinion
of counsel upon the point of law, of course, it cat be
had, but I would not have started the =hied now if I
had not known it to be BO clear. The new Visitors will
have an Opportunity of saying what is the amount, and
so pay all this.
The Rev. Idr. TZMPLIR : I still don't feel quite oon-
vinoed, and I shall still move, if I stand alone, that an
opinion be taken. With regard to the chaplain' as the
Chairman said, it is not • matter of very great conse-
quence and he has been paid long before I was Chairman
of the Visitors. - .

Lord PORTMAN : I give notice to the authorities—to
the Chairman of the Finance Committee, and to the
Chairman of the Visiting Committee—that they have
done wrong.
The Rev. Mr. TiOrtitsi : Very good.
Lord PORTMAN : And I have no doubt it will be
found that they are wrong. I make no motion upon it;
but after the matter is made public to the whole of the
ratepayers of the county, and if now persisted in, there
is no doubt some steps will be taken in the way I have
indicated.

Rev. C. W. BINGHAM If the Visiting Justices tlnd
there is any doubt in their minds upon the point, let
them be at liberty to take an opinion upon it.
Rev. W. : The chief point Is Dr. Pinch'.:
whether that is to be oherged to the county or not ?

Mr. PORCHER : The question is, our buildings being
full, whether or not we are justified in charging upon
the county rate the excetus of county charge incurred
there over and above what you are paying for
Forston.

Lord PORTMAN : That is exactly what I say you are
not, _

POHCHER : I don't say that is at all shown upon
it.
Lord PORTMAN : I have no doubt, if Mr. Bingham's
suggestion is taken, that when the Visitors come to look
into the matter they will find on difficulty. This is
not at all • strained opinion of the statute.
Sir J. LETHBRIDGE remarked that Lord Shaftesbury
said the county mould save £lO,OOO by adopting &pro-
posal submitted by the noble Earl. The old • saying
declared shat "Union is strength," and instead of hav-
ing two buildings, which could not be desirable, it had
been suggested to abandon the plan altogether and have
a new site, whereby a more convenient lunatic asylum
could be obtained, and at a reduction of £lO,OOO. So
let them adopt it.
ROT. Mr. TIMELIER : I think you must mean £lO,OOO
increase. (A laugh.)
Mr. JOHN GOODDEN : Why cannot we take the 35
sores agreed to from Mr. Devenish and build something
simple and plain, after the form of almhouses for
chronic patients, 'Which *mild save, it appears to me, a
very large sum of money, instead of taking Mr.
Sturt's and Mr. Sheridan's land, which those gentlemen
do not want to sell!

The CaAIRMAN, at considerable length, reviewed the
history of the Forston Asylum question. Some of the
letters read to-day, so far as he had understood them,
had surprised him. The Commissioners in Lunacy ap-
peared to have rules of their own' and to have artiness-
selves above the law ; but a perusal of their two last
, annual reports showed that Dorset was by no means
singular in falling under the rod of those gentlemen,
who still remained in a state of adverse pugnacity. He
was ready to bring the matter to an issue, and for the
purpose of building, purchasing land neeeenry, and for
the purpose of cultivation, employing paupers on land
rented. The statute did not compel the Court tO do
mOre. If the Connhissioners were resolved to Oppose
the Court let them do so, and move the Court of Queen's
Bench (or a mandamus. He advised the Court to make
a positive stand against the Comminioners, because he
believed they were requiring from the Court more than
the Act of Parliament demanded. The matter would
go on for seven or eight years as It had travelled for the
past seven or eight anima a bold front were shown to
the Commissioners. He should be glad if a gentleman
would move a declaratory resolution, showing that the
Court would do what was necessary in the purchasing of
land to build on and nothing more, and renting land for
the emplornent of the inmates of the asylum; and let
the Commissioners reed and digest the resolution if they
liked. The Commissioners never had proceeded against
any Court of Justices in England sad Wales; but if
they ware determined to do so now he was perfectly con-
vinced this Court would come scathing out of the con-
flict.

7Rev. Mr. TEMPLER : The words "Commissioners
.in Lunacy" are not mentioned in this Act, nor are they
recognised I believe, nor their consent necessary; but
'there is a person whose oonsent is necessary, and that is
the Secretary of State. What is the process edopted
by the Hence Secretary to enquire information When
anything relgiag lunstio asyknos comes up he
invariably refers it to the Commissioners in Lunacy,
and he acts upon their °Pinion. The COMmissionerit
:could not fake on to do anything, nor is their content
'absolutely neoaseary.
The CHAIRMAN: No; but by their complaint they.
;can call upon bruit to do it. It CMOS to the same
int Mr. TI(PLKIt • It was that very clause of the
Act which *as in our minds when we emit that proposal
to them wanting .to rent land year by year and hive
plenty of fresh d ).end to build upon. And they say
'No • you eh not redt frmn year to year, but have
!a lease of not Isee than 80 years." The objeetimi tO
; which is as stated—that . Sheridan has not the
power to lease for More than 4 years' but by the Lands
Masse Act.he coidd leads for 21 years, widdh he it quite
willing to grant.
Mr. H. WILLIAMS and Sir J. LETHBRIDGE here,
amidst roars of laughter, asked the Chairman "What's
the motion before the Court"—a question which seemed
to stagger some of the officials somewhat for a brief
space. At length
The CLERK of the PSACS replied—The motion for
obtaining an opinion. (Renewed laughter. No one
seconding Mr. Templer's proposal the subject dropped.

COUNTY FINANCES.
Mr. FARQUHARBON read the report of the Finance
Committee. The Committee had examined the Trea-
surer's account and found it correct. Daring the last
quarter the expenditure had amounted to £3,661 Is. lid.
The receipts were
£ a. d.
Balance in Treasurer's hands at
Michaelmas ... 4,325 13 21
County rats of one farthing in the
Justices' clerks' fees ... 124 3 6
Fines and penalties ... ... 53 17 9
5,343 2 51
Leaving balance in Treasurer's hands 2,281 16 61
3,661 5 11
Two farthing rates ... 1,678 16 0
---
Left available for next quarter 3,960 12 61

The Committee recommended the levying of three fez.
thing rates, yielding together £2,518 de, payable a
week before the next Quarter fiesaions. Mr. Farquhar.
son in moving the adoption of the report and it. mom.
mendation, laid on the table, In conformity with the new
rules of Ciotti, aliat of audited actiounte paid.
The CHAIRMAN, after putting the motion and it. being
affirmed, said he was sure he anticipated the pleasure Of
the Court in proposing the re.appointment of the
finance Committee and them= Chairman,
Mr. IL WILLIAMS asked the Clerk of the Pew* to
read the names of the Committee. The Clerk appearing
unable to produce the llct In question,
Mr. FARQUHARSON said Iv. asked once or twice,
but I can't aeoertain who are the members, I know
who attends. (Loud laughter.)
The Minn of the PIACI t They have been appointed
from time to time, and their namea appear in various
parts of the record.
Mr, H. WILLIAMS thought it would be well for Mr.
Farquharson to have • new oommittae.
Mr. FARQUMARION I No, no.
The CRAIINAN fouled a peed long liat had better be
had while the Owl woo about it,
MT. FARQUHARSON MAS afraid that the businesa wu
not very well dons now, and if a long list of committee.
men were adopted he did not know that the work
would be done better.
The CHAIRMAN mid by the lOth rule the committee
were to be named annually at Epiphany liassions,
Ilealtleo the Chairman, the county member,, the Chair.
man of the Bridge and Building Committee, who were
cc op* members, the committee were to OIMISAI of
sine other Julius three of whom should go out by
rotation, lush retiring juetioes to be eligible for map.
pointment, VASSIOISI could be filleti up at other
Quarter ileepions,
'lite following gentlemen were thon appointed mem.
hen of the 'Manes Committee i—Mr. 7arQuhareon,
Chairman Mr. Pusher, Mr, Myer, Rev, Mr, Templer,
Mr. 11. C. Uudden, Mr. Eliot, Mr. FTAISPIOII, Mr. Mid.
dleten, Mr, X. William., and Mf. Chindry—in addition
to the co t(t)leio member. inentitmed above,

4 mewed AMA .
AO beri quail:lt _
A 00fIlifptilltlettail MAIM —A Thliten in. Mr Omani&
Women In FM , uwdqfros Ihe lend of °Metier to the
Ineel of ,n6wThtlet pMeel Maltz por_Lieti
.lartli
a llta
l'utitgig lanißiPlii red j from witrei re
'lt wo
that the I ern I itA NM Waring of Intut for leat
then 110 Pear% arse adobe Ilts ;wahine In hie I and that they
reatanemenet damehed byttAttnits for tiounble
_pottorti. Thal
its. mjl4.r OW met of the buildltuts on Mr. Murrill Mnd
•onflflmjs, loin. IdeM of dotkohed bun-dingo Warn thrown 0110
by Mr 7g:re In Lunacy ; but they atm appenred to the
Vlettorncif for imbetd:3 buildings ao Wipe Inetltutlana,
bugeot le Do Me nosed r aeylum of Mix -00W*.
ntl2 moommen the rut! to pay to 11r. .
'WI of 110, and that the plsho bit-Mama kr
and , - of 410 to Mr. NNW, in ''—' emend /
nu of dill be paid to 7
to rillllll WI I)'ill 11 fee. The
', it widow r