The Dorset County Express and Agricultural Gazette.
Dorchester, Dorset, England, 1865-03-07 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

MOwDAT, —Mr. M'Malion legged to ask the President
of the Board of Trade whether he expected the report
of the Special Commission on S.-a Fisheries to be pre-
fronted in time to enable him to carry in this Session •
Bill founded on their recommendations.— Mr. Milner
Gibson said that the Commis-ionerd expected to conclude
their inquiry at Rarer, and that their report might be
expected to be laid before the House in May or June.
He did not think it probable that Parliament would be
able to legislate on the subject this session—The
adjourned debate on Mr. Hennessy's; motion respecting
the state of Ireland was resumed by Mr. Roebuck, who
began bylexpressing his surprise at the statements he
had heard from Irish members and at their mendicant
tone, observing that the propositions in the resolution
implied a complaint against the Governmentof England,
with a call for "something to be done for Irelsnd."—a
phrase of which he had a horror—Lord Dunkellin
insisted upon the proofs of distress visible in Ireland,
and testified to the existence of a general feeling of dis-
trust and dissatisfactionthongh not of disloyalty, among
the people.—Sir H. Cdirns said it appeared to
him that the resolution embraced topics worthy
of the consideration of the House, but if lie
was called upon to pledge himself to its terms he
should have some difficulty in assenting to them.—
Mr. Lowe observed that he could not agree with the
first part of the resolution, calling upon the House to
lament the decline of the population of Ireland. If the
statements made in the course of the debate were true,
that the people of Ireland were in a state of poverty
and destitution, ought the House to lament that any of
them availed themselves of the means of escape? He
looked upon the emigration as an immense good to those
who left the country, and • benefit to those who re-
mained. In considering the evils of Ireland the prin-
cipal cense, in his opinion, had been undervalued—
namely, the climate, which had a material influence
upon the economy of a country that had set its heart
upon agriculture.—Mr. irMahon argued that our fiscal
legislation was not impartial towards Ireland, which
was essentially an agricultural country, while England
was essentially a manufacturing country, and the re-
missioh of taxation and our revenue laws, he contended,
had been to the advantage of manufactures, and to the
disadvantage of agriculture. —Sir G. Grey observed that
the subject under discussion was one of great im-
portance, and that the discussion itself had elicited facts
of moment, and opinions which would, he hoped, induce
the people of Ireland to look for the remedy of evils,
which all deplored, not to Parliament or the Govern-
ment, bet to their own efforts and resources. Sir S.
Northcote questioned the doctrine that the emigration
as it took place in Ireland was an equal benefit
to those who left and to throe who remained,
contending that much suffering and misery must be
oonneoted with it. As to the condition of Ireland,
it should be remembered that Ireland had been
crippled by our legislation, and Parliament ought to ap-
proach this question with a feeling of tenderness towards
Ireland, and a desire to see how far it was possible to
meet her evils.--Lord Palmerston said every one mast
agree that the subject was one of the greatest possible
interest. The foundation of the motion was that great
distress prevailed in Ireland. It did no; but, though
there had been three years of unfavourable seasons,
the last was of a different character. In the condition
of Ireland there was much to be deplored, and the
decline of the population was, in the abstract, an evil.
But some years ago the complains was of a redundant
population in Ireland. Legislation could not counteract
a law of nature, and keep labouring people in one
country when higher wages were given in another.
Then bow could an inducement to remain be created?
Nothing could do it but the influx of capital. And
what prevented this? One great obstacle WEIS the
notion that there was not the same security in Ireland
as in this country. As to the second part of the reso-
lution, he thought the opinion of the House!was'against
the proposal of a grant of public money ; but if a
motion was made for the re-appointment of the com-
mittee of last year the Government would be ready to
accede to it.—Lord J. Mennen concurred in the sugges-
tion, but a division was called for, when Mr. Hennessy's
motion was negatived by 107 to 31.
TURSDAT.—At the time of private business a discus-
sion of much general interest took place on the order
for the second reading of the Metropolis Sewage and
Essex Reclamation Bill. Ultimately thelißill was read
a second time, and, on the motion of Mr. Ayrton, was
referred to a Select Committee of ten, half to he nomi-
nated by the House, and half by the Committee of
Selection, and that the Committee be instructed to
inquire into the most useful and profitable means of
disposing of the metropolitan sewage on the north side
of the Thames.- Mr. Holland gave notice that on ,
Thursday, March 9, he should move for leave to bring in
a Bill for further regulating the use of locomotives on
turnpike and other roads for agricultural and other
purposes.—Sir J. Pakington moved for a Select Com-
mittee to inquire into the constitution of the Com-
mittee of Council on Education, and the system under
which the business of the office is conducted. His
object was, he said, the reorganization of the depart-
ment, no that it might better carry out the in-
tentions of Parliament in regard to the educa-
tion of the people. He referred to the composi-
tion of the Committee of the Privy Council,
consisting of members of the Government who had
other special functions to diecharge,so that responsibility
was dispersed, and he read the opinions of practical
persons (including Mr. Lingen), which showed that the
constitution of the department was defective. Then,
as to its working, he thought there had been something
In it indicating that it was desirable there should be
some change. He noticed the dissatisfaction felt in the
country, and instances in which the want of a single
responsible Minister of Education was, in his opinion,
apparent in order to render the department efficient.
In conclusion lie expressed his assent to the amend-
ment of which notice lied been given by Mr. Walter.
Mr. Walter moved, as an amendment, to add to the
motion, " and also into the best mode of extending the
benefits of Government inspection and the Parliamentary
grant to schools at present unassisted by the Sate."
After stating the reasons which had led him to take this
course in order to bring this subject before the Hondo,
and observing that he had made the terms of the
amendment no extensive as to embrace all plans in the
proposed inquiry, he gave a short history of the
educational grants and of the large amount of
money expended, and the great number of
schools which were without any annual grant.
He urged that it was a fit subject of inquiry
whether the Parliamentary grant should not be extended
to schools without reference to certificated masters.—
Mr. Lowe, after explaining the principles to which
the Committee of Council had hitherto adhered, stated
his objections to the dispensing with certificated
mutters as a condition of the Parliamentary grant, the
mastsr being an agent for the distribution of public
money, and his competency being a security for the
efficiency of the schools. He defended the system of
the office and the constitution of the Department of
Education, in which he could see no fault or
defect, and insisting upon the inconveniences that
would attend the concentration of the functions of the
Committee of Council in a single Minister, he thought
it would not be wise to change the organisation of the
department, of the career and public services of which,
under a constitution that had been alleged to be faulty,
be gave a forcible description. The department, he
observed, was overworked ; the proposed changes
would throw it out of gear and revolutionise the whole
system of public education, under which vast sums had
been spent upon the faith that it would endure.—Mr.
Adderley thought the present constitution of the de-
partment, in his opinion, was not satisfactory, and was
a subject well worthy of inquiry.—SirL. Palk supported
the motion and amendment, and advocated a plan for
enabling small rural parishes to obtain a portion of the
Parliamentary grant —Mr. Bruce did not offer any
opposition to the motion or the amendment, and thought
the very appointment of a committee would serve the
useful purpose of restoring a good understanding
between the House and Education Department.—Lord
R. Cecil claimed for the House of Commons a larger
jurisdiction over the Education Department, and a
greater control over acts affecting such wide interests—
the education of the people and the expenditure of a
large amount of public money. Ultimately the motion,
as amended, was agreed to. Mr. Kinnainl moved a resolu-
tion, "That it bean instruction to the select Committee
on the Courts of Justice Concentration (Site) Bill, that
they have power to make provision for appropriating or
obtaining littera and for the erection of lodging-houses or
other suitable dwellings for the working classes pro-
posed to be displaced by the said bill." The Attorney-
General said if any one could offer any practical
suggestion for remedying this incidental evil, the
vernment would be ready to consider it; but no one
looked at the matter carefully could doubt that in
the long run the evil would rectify itself, and ultimately
benefit the classes displaced. To devise an immediate
remedy was totally impracticable. After some further
discussion, a division took place, when it appeared that
there were not 40 members present, so the Howse
adjourned.
WEDNIADar.—Sir F. Kelly, in moving the second
reading of the Law of Evidence, fto, Bill, stated that
It consisted of eight clauses, which were intended to
carry into effect seven distinct and different measures of
amendment of the law. Upon six of them he believed
that no serious difference of opinion existed; but he
understood that the third, which proposed to render
oompetent as witnesses the parties in all criminal oases
would be opposed by Her Majesty's Government. He
appealed, however, to the Government to postpone
their opposition until the Bill came into committee.—
Mr. Scully regretted to find that the Government, instead

IGovernmeth
who

of taking their plate in the van of legal reform, were
coruiug forward to oppose legal reforms suggested by
lion. members on the Opposition benches. He thought
Her Majesty's ministers would become more sineere and
earnest reformers if they were C.TII relied for a time to
enjoy the retirement of opposition. —The Attorney.
General said he shoat be sorry to see the House deal
with law reforinn as party immtions. Their ohjict wog
to improve the law of the country as farce possible, and
to ascertain wh-ther proposed changes in the law would
secure a better or a worse administretion of justice. He
felt it his duty to state that the Government could
oppose those clauses of the present Bill whiat would
enable persons to he witnesses in criminal cases an their
own favour and sulojiet them to cross-examination, on
tie ground that such a change in the law was repug-
nant to the whole spirit of our legislation, and would
work by no means in the interests of justice.—After
come observations from Mr. Dunlop, kfr. McMahon, and
Mr. G. Hardy, the Bill was then read a second time.—
Mr. Clifford moved that the Bonne go into Committee
for the purpose of enabling him tip bring in • 1111 for
the abolition of fines for non-attenchnce at a place of
Divine worship on Sunday. The hon. member adverted
to the circumstances under which the e fines were
levied, end to some cases which had occurred recently
at I,igh and OriMeld.—Lord Hotham said the case at
Driffield was not exactly that of a person who did not
go to church, but of an agricultural I .bourer who had
made a contract with his mistress that he would go to
.church.—Sir G. Grey said he believed the version given
by the noble lord of the case at Driffield was correct.
After a short conversation the Houie went into Com-
mittee, and leave was given to bring in a Bill.
House adjourned at 430.
TIONSDAT.—Mr.Baiues stated that it was hisinteetion
to postpone the second rending of the Borough Franchise
Extension Bill from the sth of April to the 3rd of hiny.
—Sir J. Pakington put a question to the Secretary for
the Admiralty, relative to the reported loss of her
Majesty's ship Galatea, to which Lord C. Paget replied
that the Admiralty had, that day, received a report
which was so far satisfactory as it appeared that the
Galatea was not lost. He was sorry to say, neverthe.
less, there had been a melancholy loss of life. Two
barges filled with men belonging to the Galatea having
been sent to the rescue of a boat which had broken
from the frigate with one man on board, the barges
were driven by the storm on the beach, off Cape Henry,
and it was supposed all hands had perished. A steamer
sent to their assistance from Norfolk was compelled to
' put back by the storm. —On the motion for going into
committee of supply, Mr. H. J. Baillie moved the
anpointment of a select committee to inquire whether
Her Majesty's ship,' are at present armed in a manner
I suited to the necnssitiea aml requirements of modern
warfare.—Sir J. Hay seconded the motion, and bore hls
! testimony that our ships were so badly armed that
! they could not be regarded as competent to defend
themselves against the navies of Europe or America.—
The Marquis of Hartington contended that inquiries no
! recently and fully made rendered it unnecessary to
! appoint a committee to re-open the subject. The
! labours of the ordnance committee were now approach-
ing a close, and although he did not imagine that it
would be able to decide every disputable point, it would
be most premature to embark largely in a system of
construction or rifling until it was known what the
views of that committee were, He could not see, then,
considering our resources as a manufacturing country,
and that we were constructing guns as fast an they
were required, that there was any ground for serious
elem.—Lord C. Paget saga Government were engaged
in making 200 six-and-a-half ton seven-inch rifle guns.
That gun had within the last few weeks pierced the
Warrior through and through at 200 yards, and he felt
confident that it would be carried on our broadsides.
Eventually he had no doubt they would be able to carry
the 12-ton guns all round the ship ; but we bad not
arrived at that point yet. The Admiralty h!cl addressed
a requi ition to the War Office to supply them with as
many 12-ton guns as they had ships to carry them, and
these would he furnished to the Agincourt, North-
umberland, Bellerophon, Royal Alfred, Prince Albert,
and Scorpion. But if be were asked whether the fleet
would then be armed as he wished to see it he should
unhesitatingly say that it would not. They were also
manufacturing a large number of sixeindm, half ton,
nine-ton, and twelve-ton guns in readiness for rifling,
as soon as the ordnance committee had reported which
was the best system. The House having divided, the
motion of Mr. Baillie was negatived by 57 to 22. The
House soon after went into a committee of supply pro
forma, and adjourned soon after ten o'clock.

FRIDAY.—On the order of the day for going into Com-
mittee of Supply, Mr. Newdegate moved for a select
committee to inquire into the existence, character, and
increase of monastic or conventual societies of establish-
ments in Great Britain. The bon. gentleman entered
at some length into the history of these institutions,
and directed attention to the cases of Mr. Harrison, late
captain of Westminster &hoot, Miss McDermott, Miss
Ryan, and others. He urged that the conduct and
practices of these so-called religious houses were inimical
to the constitution of a Psotestant country,and declared
the establishments them,elves were mere sinks of
iniquity and corruption, in fact demoralised dens.
To show their character he instanced the case of a nun
who escaped from a Benedictine Convent, at Colgate,
in Staffordshire, in 1857. She went to Stafford, and
ultimately to Birmingham, from which place she was
taken back, closely veiled, and watched by Dr. ITlla-
thorne. The case was subsequently taken up by a
solicitor, assisted by the Protestant Alliance in London,
and the nun in question, who had been removed to a
convent near Wimborne, was examined. She stated
that she was kindly treated in the establishment to
which she had been removed. But she did not deny,
on being questioned, that there were subterranean cells
in the convent at Colgate, called "The Grottoes," in
which the nuns were sometimes immured. She was
asked if a nun who had. been put there had not been
found dead, and she remained silent. A anbsequent
examination showed that the greatest severities were
practised in the convent, that the nuns were constantly
imprisoned, frequently kept short of food, and that
more were buried in the precincts of the convent than
were entered in the books of the registrar. It was also
shown that, although none of the inmates quitted the
portals of the convent, carpenters were frequently
employed inside in making packing-cases, which
there was every reason to believe were used as Gallas.
He thought the whole subject one which deserved
a full and careful investigation at the hands of Parlia-
ment.—Mr. Hennessy, in opposing the motion, said the
law provided a remedy for every greivance which could
be complained of in connection with these institutions.
He was not afraid of publicity. On the contrary, lie
thought the more the charges which were made against
the convents were investigated the more groundless
, they appeared. The hon. member read extracts from
the reports of inspectors of schools to show that the
convent schools were highly commended,lfor the moral
training provided. As to the stories of the severities
practised in convents, which the hon. member for
Warwick had related, they were all from anonymous
, sources, and were, in point of fact, pure inventions, got
I up for the purpose of arousing popular indignation
I against certain ladies who were engaged attending
the sick and performing acts of charity. He
accused the hon. member of having planned this
great campaign against oonvimtual establishments
with the aid of the hon. member for Peterborough
Mr. Whalley—whose feelings with regard to the
Roman Catholics were as bigoted as his own.—Mr.
Neste regretted that the State provided no means for
the efficient inspection of convents and monasteries.
In France there were two classes of convents—those
which were authorised and those which were not. The
former were regularly inspected, and could alone enjoy
any bequest that might be made for their benefit. 'He
thought we ought to know a great deal more about
these things than we did, as he believed there were
many cases of oppression for which the law provided no
remedy.—Mr. Whalley supported time motion. He
denied that he had assisted Mr. Newilegate in getting
up his case. No one admired the ability of the hon.
member for North Warwickshire more than he did, but
there were very few hon. members who had less com-
munication with each other than they had. —Sir G. Grey
gave the hon. member for North Warwickshire credit
for the assertion he made, that he was not actuated by
any feeling of bigotry, but that he brought the motion
forward in the honest discharge of his duty. He be-
lieved that the hon. member represented the opinions of
a large number of persons in this country. The lion.
member, however, was acting injudioioasly in pressing
this subject on the consideration of the House, when it
was recollected what took place in 1853, when the same
question was brought forward by Mr. T. Chambers.
The hon. gentleman had not explained the ulterior
object in the event of a committee, and, the informa-
tion he sought being in the hands of the House, upon
what grounds was Parliament going to interpose? Did
the hon. member believe there was a person in a state
of absolute physical coercion in any of the establish-
ment', and that the law was unable to provide a remedy?
He (Sir G. Grey) was of opinion that the law
as it now stood was quite sufficient to deal
with the question, and he reminded the House that
many of the inmates of the convents were ladies of rank
and education, whose relatives, guided by natural
affection and the duties imposed on them as members
of society, would be the first to require investigation, if
improper and illegal practices were resorted to. He
believed no public advantages would be derived from
appointing a committee, and he should therefore oppose
the motion.—Mr. Scully as strongly opposed the motion.
The House then divided, when the numbers were—for
the motion, 79, against, 106, majority against, 27.

A. SPLIT IN THE BALLOT SOCIETY. —We understand
that Mr. H. Berkeley, M.P., has resigned the chairman-
ship of the Ballot Society in consequence of a difference
of opinion between himself and the committee as to the
utility, under preient circumstances, of continuing his
annual motion on the ballot. The society has accepted
his resignation, but has not at present elected another
chairman. We are informed that the whole of the sub-
scribers, so far as the committee is aware, agree in the
opinion that it would be better not to have the question
again discussed in the House of Commons until it can
be done with the concurrence and assistance of all its
parliamentary friends.—Daity News.

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