The Dorset County Express and Agricultural Gazette.
Dorchester, Dorset, England, 1858-04-13 00:00:00

THE COUNTY LUELTIO AMON.

Mr. FLOYITt, in presenting the quarterly report of the
Visitors of the County Lunatic Asylum, expressed regret
that the duty should have devolved upon him in conse-
quence of the resignation of the chairmanship by the Rev.
Mr. Templer. However, the interest that gentleman
had taken in everything connected with the county
asylum for upwards of 90 years was not at all dimi-
aiahed ; and when his health would permit he would
yet be one of the Asylum Visitors, giving the committee
the advantage of his great knowledge and experience in
the matter. Mr. Floyer then read the subjoined report:—
The Asylum, during the past quarter, has been con-
ducted in all respects to the entire eatistaetion of the
Visitors. The accounts for the past year have been
audited as directed by the statute. The Asylum con-
tinues. as for many veers past, utterly insufficient for
the proper accommodation of the pauper lunatics of the
county—there being no less than 57 patients for whom no
provision can be made at Foniton, and who are, therefore,
placed under the care of Dr. Finch, at Fisherton, at an ex-
pense of upwards of £2,000 per annum. The total expen-
diture on amount of maintenance during the last quarter
has been £1,095 10a. 3d.' which has been met by • rate
of 7e. 7d. per week for each patient, leaving • sum of
£3 is. 7d. to be carried to the Contingent Fund. The
following bills were ordered to be paid by the County
Treasurer .
£ L .
Dr. Finch, difference above weekly rate
James Noriliover, mason ... 7 3
Mr. Monday, timber merchant ... 17 18
Mr. dalpin, repairs ... ... 217
.
Mr. Moffatt, I;rehiteol for Plane ... 80 0
Mesas. Hicks, ditto ... 20 0
Mr. Wyatt, report on plans 25 0
Mr. Sheridan, half-year's rent of field,
leas Lioome Tax ... 914
Mr. Ffooks "Case and Opinion" ... ... 714
--
The Balance in the Contingent Fund is... 496 1
Ditto Perm Account... ... 33 7 1
Ditto Charity Fund...... 338 l2
The number of patients in the Asylum at the end of
the last quarter were—
Males. Pent. Total.
71 88 159.
A dmitted since 4 5 9

Melee. Fem.

- -
75 93 168

5 6
5 6 11

Permitting in the house March 30 70 87 157.
At Atherton, 23 males, 94 females, and 1 male son-
ic pursuance of the authority given them at the last
Quarter Sessions, the Visitors desired the Clerk of the
Peace to take Counsel's opinion upon :he proper manner
of charging the stuns of money by which the weekly
cost of the patients in confinement at Fisherton exceeds
the cost of those in confinement in the County Asylum,
and also in regard to the proper manner of charging all
rates and taxes upon the asylum.
The opinion was that the sums of money above referred
to are payable from the County Stook in the hands of
the Treasurer; and in accordance with that opinion the
Visitors have, as heretofore, ordered the payment by
the Comity Treasurer of the difference of cost, amount-
ing, as already mentioned, for the past quarter, to
£2ll 14s. 9d.
The Salary of the Chaplain, hitherto paid out of the
County Stook, has been charged to the Maintenance
Amount.
In addressing themselves to the important subject of
the enlargement and improvement of the Asylum, as
directed by this Court, the Visitors were of opinion that
they should sot most in accordance with the views and
wishes of the Court by taking a general review of the
whole question, rather than by attempting to carry out
without further consideration, the somewhat conflicting
decisions of the Court upon it. After • careful and
lengthened consideration of the various Sans and pro-
F
bons that have been made, they arrived at the fol-
ooncluaiona :-
1. That it is not expedient to carry oat the resolutions
at the Midsummer and Michaehuas Sessions,
na5.764
, with regard to the purchase of land and the
ent of the Asylum.
lal2l.llCt it is expedient to provide the required addi-
tional scomnmodation on the land proposed to be pur-
chased of Mr Sheridan, and that Mr. Donaldson, the
ambits* be requested to prepay'? • bleak plan and
estimates for such additional buildings to secommodate
2SO patients.
A plan and estimelies, with a report, wea wcoyaingiy
prepared by Mt Donaldson, and token into eonsidera-
tion by the Visitors at the quarterly meeting held et
Arston on the 30th of last month. After much dis-
ension it was resolved, that in aonniquanee of the high
edituete fir the proposed alteretions, amounting, eneln.
sive of the purehase matey for the bad, to nearly
mow and the elpirldeed by Mr. Donaldson,
itowerde the A. , aa to the fitness of the
raten9r, so lOW Um, in whist: doubt the
~ =din% 0
iige Or" 41111"b1.4
t
. iimetniii
whz 11 Vangeotthehe
preeenaiihun,l
mare advantageous to rimers the
thedspionomeratlatose rag;
a hub ids. Tha with lids view

\ll
Sessions be moved to authorise th Visitors to lane
advertisements inviting offers of lan end ff a suitable
site, in the opinion of the Vieitoft, obe obtained, for
plans and estimates for hitilding •n. e Asylum.
Mr. Floyer elarietired upon the report, that if the Court
were of Opinion that the Visitors' reco rnendation, vii.
—to isdvertise for offers of land for a ‘ h site, and if
they found a desirable and proper one
to,advertiie for •
block plan and rough estiurate—were god for present
action, it would be unnecessary for him to enter into the
question so often discussed in this Court. And he
thought magiskstes would be glad to be tared the die.
mission, at any rate for one session. If, however, it was
thought desirable to act upon Mr. Donaldson's plan
which, with the report thereon were laid on the table,
or on Mr. Moffatt's plan, or In way to enlarge the
asylum at WI present site, the dissuasion should now be
brought on. Whilst to advertise for plans and
estimates of a good site would be money wasted,
supposing msgistrates were prepared to carry out any
plan of enlarging the present structure. The reasons of
the committee for not proceeding with Mr. Donaldson's
plan were stated in the report. The committee thought
the stun for enlarging the building, £23,000, was so
large, in addition to which there would be the oast of
buying Mr. Sheridan's land and also purchasing other
land, if thought desirable, for the employment of the
patients. Hence the Visitors believed they should con-
sult the advantage of the county and the wish of the
Court if, before enlarging the present building, they in.
gained and ascertained at what expense a really new
asylum could be built. As he detailed, about 18 months
ago, large sums had been expended by different counties
in building new asylums • but it had been said, and by
high authority—the noble lord whose presence would
be of great advantage if discussion on the subject en-
sued had given some countenance to the idea—that
the expense of building a new asylum would be very
much less than what had been spent in many counties
upon similar institutions. On referring to the last
report of the Commissioners in Lunacy that me details
of expenses of building new asylums, for 1854, he (Mr.
Floyer) found that although some asylums had ranged
as high as £2OO per patient, ooating counties not much
larger than this from £70,000 to £BO,OOO, yet in the
adjoining county of Hampshire, for building alone, the
cost was something more than £lOO per patient. In
that county the asylum was built for 400 patients at •
cod, for building, of £42,800—t0 which no doubt would
have to be added the item of fitments, perhaps £12,000.
Magistrates, however, nnuit not believe that in Mr.
Donaldson's estimate of £23,000 that • large sum was
calculated for fituients. The expense of building and
fitments varied etinsiderably. In Somerset • new
asylum had been built within • few yews for 850
patients at a cost of £40,000 for building alone—or
about £lOO per patient. Taking these for guides be
thought • new asylum might be built in this county for
something like £30,000. He had always thought that,
with SO/110 objections to it, certainly, the present site at
Foretop was not an undesirable one. In alone parts it
was cramped ; but could Mr. Start's ground have been
obtained in • manner satisfactory to the Court, he (Yr.
1 Floyer) thought the site would have presented very few
material objections. If the enlargement. contemplated
' in the direction indicated were given up, and the en-
largement continued towards the north, the objections to
the site were more serious, The Visitors he thought
' would hesitate mud) in recommending a removal from
Fenton unless a good site were obtained. Hs did not
think they would be desirous of removing the asylum to
' any wild spot upon the heath where the water was very
uncertain of supply in dry weather. Water was looked
upon by many pastime as of the greatest importance,
and at Foretop there was a most abundant and excellent
supply. At the same time he was not prepared to say
1 that if, by now giving the county notice —as public at-
, &lotion had been drawn to the question—offers of land
' same in, the Visitors, fin hag • site decidedly an iTIV
prevenient upon Forston and upon which an asylum
could be built at about £30,000, might not, aided by the
Court, be able to make up their minds as to the best
course to be pursued. He concluded by moving that
the report be received and adopted.
Mr. Faanrrom asked if the proposition for purchas-
ing Mr. Devenish's land opposite the asylum, improving
it, and cutting • shorter road-way across bad been en.
tertained ? _

Rev. J. A. Totems: It has been discussed.
Mr. OILZDON said the Visitors examined the ground
lately, and found it would never answer. An immense
cutting through • hill would have to be made.
Mr. FLOYILR replied, no doubt the plan spoken of
could be carried out, and he wu instructed that Mr.
Devenish was prepared to do all in his power to enable
the Court to purchase the land; but that was not the
pinch. The pinch was first of all the expense; then
there was the closeness of the valley—it would limit the
employinent of patients in sheds. He regarded the
places in which patients were employed as of the very
greatest importance next to the asylum itself.
The CHAIRMAN inquired if the Visitors assumed that
they had a right to come upon the county treasury for
the difference between the 13s. paid to Dr. Finch and
the 7s. 7d. per head which was the establishment cost
at Foretop, on account of the 58 patients? The ques-
tion involved a large amount of the county Me.
Mr. PLOT=: Yes ; I believe so.
Lord PORTMAN believed from the Cheirman'a intima-
tion be was willing to have the question npon Mr.
Butt's opinion raised.. At the hot Quarter Sessions he
(the noble Lord) took the liberty to bring the subject
before the Court. He had mien Mr. Butt's opinion,
and, of course, had very great respect for that opinion;
but hie Lordship was quite sure that, if they were to have
a new asylum at no very distant time it would occasion
, greatdifiloulty should the question be litigated as between
, the county and the parishes. His Lordship felt bound
to say that had Mr. Butt been at his Chambers in Lon-
don, with his books around him, or had heard the matter
argued, instead of being on the Western Circuit, and
without those fasilieies, when **opinion was given, the
opinion would have been different It wee a very
I guarded opinion. He (Lord Portman) repeated that it
was very inexpedient to get into anything like trouble
on the point if they were going to have, as he hoped
they were, an asylum which would save them from pay-
ing the difference between 13a. and 7s. 7d. per head ;
and hence as far as he was oonoerned, he should not ad-
vise any ratepayer to raise the question. It was due to
the Visiting Magistrates to hear the opinion of the
Chairman, who, since seeing Mr. Butt's opinion, had
given much time to the point- and if the Chairman's
mind was quite made up that Mr. Butt's opinion
was wrong, it might be desirable further to consult Mr.
Butt. A question was asked Mr. Butt with reference to
rates and texas. Now if he (Lord Portman) understood
the *wingers opinion rightly, it was that the rates and
taxes were not chargeable upon the parishes, but to ex-
es to which the counsel referred. If he (the noble
Lord) were to argue the case before Mr. Butt he should
be reminded that the word " lodging " was the first
component of the rates and taxa+. But how they were
to get the " lodging " without the rates and taxes it
was herd to know: and he held lodging to be • charge
ejesdem geaeris. If it came to be discussed with Mr.
Batt, he (Lord Portman) did not think it would be
then considered to be a permanent charge upon the
tenuity ; and if there was • sabetantiril doubt hereon it
would be worth consideration. With regard to the
question of, in the asylum or out of the asylum, it would
soon pass away, unless there was a strong cause to
press that opinion. Ha hoped Mr. Moyer, as Chairmsn
of the Visiting Justices, would kindly consider whether
" lodging" did take the item out of the charge efissiksit
proem-
Mr. PORCHER said the "whole lodging" wise certainly
• strong wont.
Lord POSTMAN added, in reference to the committee's
recommendation, the first motion he brought forward on
the subject, and it was acquiesced in by Mr. Tenn her
wee that advertisements should be put forth asking for
a new site. He believed the Visitors were unanimous
that insane should be taken to ascertain if • better site
for • new asylum could be found.
The CHAIRMAN proceeded to give at length his opinion
upon the disputed question. The report presented, hi
said, involved the very important consideration whether
the difference between 13.. now paid for 58 pauper
pitienta at Dr. Finch's and 7s. 7d per week, which
those patients would cost if confined in • county whim,
whether the Si. sd. should fall on parishes to which the 1
patients belonged, or be paid by the county. A case here-
on bad been drawn and submitted to • most eminent
counsel, Mr. Butt, whom all were proud to acknowledge
as an influential member of this Court. As to whether
the difference was to be paid by the county it was quite
clear by referring to section 42 of 18 and 17 Vie. esp. 97,
that section empowering Visitors to contract for the re.
oeption of pauper lunatics into asylum in other counties,
and money payable under such contract beyond the
weekly stuns charged in that Act (beyond the To. 7d. for
lodging, maintenance, medicine, clothing, and care of
lunatics at Foretop) belonging to the county to which
the lunatics belong, should be defrayed from the county
funds. Had the statute stopped at this point there
would be no doubt that this Court could sanction the
payment asked by the Visitors. But another question
was pat to Mr. Butt—whether the Visitors under the
54th section should or should not fix the weekly sum to
be charged for midi pauper lunatics, se that the amount
might be sufficient to defray the whole expense of patients
at Dr. Finch's and, until all the expenses of all the
lunatics exceeded the rate of 14s. for each, dividing the
sum for each particular parish—dividing the sum total
by the !umber of patients, and letting the quotient be
the only AWN chargeable upon the perishes, not taking the
first cart of the 58 patients and charging it separately to
the particular pari.hes those patients belonged to. Mr.
Butt's reply to this was—that • committee of Visitors
could fix a weekly sum for the expense of each peuper
lunatic confined in the county asylum (now fixed at
is. 7d. • week). The 54th section allowed the com-
mittee to fix • greater weekly sum to be paid for lunatics
not taken care of in the asylum, not exceeding 14s. per
week, with power to justices in Quarter Sessions sasem-
bled to increase that rate; and Mr. Batt thought it
would be in compliance with the Act for Visitors to fix a
weekly sum to be paid for each patient upon a calcula-
tion of the whole expense for in and out pauper lunatics,
that • weekly sum might be fixed for the maintenance of
each patient in the house, and at that rate every parish
was to be charged whether or not the pauper was taken
care of out of the asylum or in. The important part of
the section referred to was that Visitors were to provide
for the lodging, maintenance, mediciee, and clothing, at
an amount sufficient to meet the whole expenses, the
sum to defray the cost of &Boers and attendants, "and
such committee may" (it was only a permissive power)
"from time to time alter the amount of such weekly
sum as occasion may require." This was clear, but it
only affected paupers resident at the county asylum.
The section went on to provide that such committee
might if they thought fit fix a greater weekly sum to be
chargedin respect of pauper lunatics other than those sent
to such asylum provided the sum did not exceed 14s. •
week. It appc:ared hence, that • new and permissive
power was given to Visitors, and for what purpose? If
given it wee meant to be exerciae.d....yae(iaxerctliz cased,a 13s.
wee larger sum were to be fixed and .
was taken) beyond the maximum of 145., applicatio
then to be made to the Court of Quarter Swab:ins,
who were empowered to make an order or orders they
deemed y to be enatersigned by the Clerk of
the Yews If such orders were to be served and not re-
asi:&rorti,mdArand
purpose. r. abeatervieppfo:a
this new question had not been raised. He (the Chair-
sulin
wubeMPll"Bruttht'seyowpinereiont°
to Mr. Batt, that they thOeld have puts
man) thought, with great deference to
.thoeu who draw
lip the ease
third question. The Visitors having the power to
assess & larger sum than the maintenance at oai •
qd have cork, and the Court being empowered en:
tu the sum upon *boo were the 9edele be he served?
geth Danko of the Lel ta treeeeMe did act In-
pear to have been attended to. lk the 1111.0110deld
ba
the perish
(96) e
iveri
im=s hiAritrae wlier tobethatanlet 18

patients sent to Dr. Finch's by this section were held to
be chargeable to the parishes whence sent. Well, how
were thou parishes to be dealt with ? Were they to be
let off with the smaller payment of Is. 7d. a week, and
the ratepayers of the county at large to make up the
difference of ss. 5d.? The 96th section declared that
it wee lawful for any justice under whom • pauper
lunatic should be sent to the asylum according to the
powers of that Act, or for any two justices of the
borough or county in which the registered hospital or
asylum wherein he should be confined or from any part
whence Le should be sent, or two Viaitors of such asylum,
to make en order upon guardian' of the union or over-
seers of the parish from which the lunatics had come—for
payment to the treasurer or proprietor of the licensed
house or registered hospital. for reasonable charges for
maintenance, medicine, clothing, and care, in such low, or or hospital, or house in which such pauper might be
returnable or prevented ; and the guardian/ or overseers
upon whole the orders were made should from time to
time pay to snob officers the charges named. The inference
he (the Chairman) drew from these sections, it might be
• very erroneous opinion, wee—it Visitors chime, and
especially by consent at the Court appointing them, to
think it equitable that the parishes whence the 58 pau-
pers were not sent should not be compelled to pay ss. sd. •
week more than the sum such patients would out at the
county asylum, considering that those patients were not
sent from the parishes of the county generally but from
a certain number of parishes, he believed, taking the
section 54 in connection with section 96, it was in the
power of Visitors to assess that sinn upon the parishes to
which the paupers belonged. Magistrates would find
section 95 contemplating the condition of paupers be-
longing to the county who were not in the county asy-
lum but were sent to a foreign asylum. There was
power to fix. • greater weekly sum to be charged for
their maintenance. Why should there be the power
to fix • greater sum if the greater nun were net
to be paid? Then, under section 96, came the power to
compel overseers of parishes the paupers belonged to to
pay to the treasurer of such asylum • certain sum.
The Court must either assume that parishes not the
canoe of sending the paupers to the foreign establish-
ment ought not to pay, then they would make the order
upon the treasurer, or assume that the ratepayers of the
county should pay the enormous SUM recited in the
Visitors' report—nearly £B3O. Whether it would be
wise and equitable to exercise the power of section 96 to
make an order compelling the particular parishes to pay
the proprietor of the asylum where the particular pau-
pers were, or for the Visitors to make a greater sum to he
charged to the county for raainbmance, Ara., of pauper
lunatics, it wee for the Court to determine.

Mr. FAMISH said there was another construction to be
put on the 51th section. He imagined that the power
to fix and charge a greater weekly sum was in respect of
patients who might be received and brought in from
another county. (Hear, hear, hear.) It was, therefore,
highly proper that if Donetshire afforded 'commode-
tion to either Wiltshire or liampihire that those
counties should be charged a larger sum. But he was at-
• loss to and, either in equity or law, that they should
charge particular parishes the extra, bateau not having
made • county asylum they were obliged to put patients
in a registered house. (gear, hear.) He should sug-
gest that the order referred to in V•e. 54th section wee
not the order referred to in section 97 to be made on the
different parishes, but the order to be made in respect of
comity patients. Hs thought this was a eotatruction
which it would bear, and which would put on the matter a
rather more fair and equitable sigailloation. If allowed
to give his idea on the whole statute it waa this—that
the first plain, • scale was to be Bud. The Visitors
might fix their scale or rate. He thought there was •
14tU confusion in the word "order" and the word
"rate." The "order" referred to the pneral notice to be
given, to be made by the Court, and the Visitors Axed
a "rate" or scale and might not go beyond the maximum of
14a. If the Court of Quarter Sessions found that maxi-
mum of 14s, did not go fu enough, then the Court might
fix • higher. "Rate' being synonyncons with the ward
"scale.' And then, all patients in respect of the
county, all who did not come from a foreign county,
were to pay the same "rate" or scale. The "order" for
the payment of that scale was to be made by the Visiting
Justices or by two Justiceasuording to section 96,upou
each separate parish, and the ofiloar of each separate
parish was to pay it to the treasurer of the asylum.
Then, whatever there might have been altered, the scale
fixe becoming payable under any contract which the
Visitors might have made—as he read it—that was to
be paid out of the county rate. (Hear, hear.) He
apologised for making thew remarks, but it was not
desirable to go into any litigation on the matter.

Lord PORTMAN quite agreed with Mr. Ferrer that the
words " they may if they think fit" applied to denizens
and not to county people. If the rate in Dorset were
7s. 7d., on • Wilteltireman coming he might be charged
9s. 9d. But the difficulty he (Lord Portman) felt was,
by the first principle of taxation no property could be
charged with • tax which was not definable as able to be
taxed • and he thought magistrates would find that in the
Lunatic Act there was no power to charge the county
rate except in certain specific oases (one of which was for
the buildings, for the repairs, &a.), when the rate of pay-
ment exceeded Its, per week. When it was less than
14s. per week they were to charge per parish per patient
such sum al magistrates appointed by the Court were
authorised to charge. Therefore, be (Lord Portman)
believed the Court ought to take the total cost of all the
expenses and all their lunatics and divide the total
money by the total number of lunatics. This was his
notion, and it was founded on the presumption that
they mold not charge the county rate, because the
county rate was only specifically charged for • specific
sum. Supposing they were to go on with the aid of Dr.
Finch and not have an asylum of their own, he (lord
Portman) thought it should be ascertained whether
the item ought to be charged per pariah per patient.
Mr. FLOYSII did not think it advisable to saddle the
particular parish with the whole expense. (Hear, hear.)
Hitherto the practice had been to make the rate upon
patients at Forston, see in what that expense 'differed
from the rate upon patients confined at Fisherton,
and then to charge that difference upon the ootnty.
This system had been sanctioned by late Chairman
of this Court, and, it was believed, by the present Chair-
man.

—Lord PORTMAN : That is under the other tot.
Rev. J. A. TIMPLEZ : The words, my lord, are the
same under each oat.

Mr. Rory& aoquiosoed in what the noble lord said
relative to the "whole lodging," do. But the statute
seemed to override its own order. Clause 42 enabled
Visitors to contract with keepers of other asylums for
the reception of patients the Visitors oonld not and
room for. Having done so, when they thereby found
greater expense entailed upon them, that extra ex-
pense, as it appeared to him, should be charged to the
oonnty ; and this was oontained in one clause. All,
however, turned on the word " may." The Visitors
concurred with him in thinking that they might go on
and charge the sum as heretofore.
The Castaitau had not presumed to raise the
question as to the justice or otherwise of charging the
difference between 7s. 7d. and 134. upor. the parishes
to which the 58 paupers belonged ; but he said that if
magistrates stopped at the 42nd section they woul I do
wrong. lie could not help imagining that the hon.
member who introduced section 54 must have done so
without knowing of the existence of section 42. Under
the circumetantes, he did think that the Court might
come to the conclusion that they had the power of
making the supplemental order referred to in section
96. In putting the ?notion for the adoption of the report,
the Chairman said it involved the granting of power to
the Chairman of the Visitors to advertise for a new site
for a lunatic asylum, so that when magistrates met at
Midsummer 8011101111 the Court would have before
them all information and a perfect knowledge of the
coat of removal.
Motion affirmed.

The Earl Of SHAPTEBBUIT rose and said : As this
report has been received and adopted, and I think very
much indeed to the credit of the county, perhaps you
will allow ins to make one observation with reference
to what fell from me chest I last had the honour of
attending the quarter sessions, and which I am sorry to
say lies been inienn.leretood. In the first piece permit
me to say that, this morning I visited the asylum and
allow me to say it ix • perfect model of care and cleanli-
ness. (Hear, hear.) It reflects the highest possible
credit upon the county, for the liberality with which
they have acted towards those unfortunate objects, and
unbounded credit on the gentleman who has charge
of it. Ido not think there is within the 'singe of
all the establishments of England • superintendent
so entitled to respect and gratitude as that excel-
lent man who presides over it, Mr. Byrnes. (Ap-
plause.) But what I wished to state was this : I recol-
lect something was said relating to the cost of asylums,
and I suggested that an asylum could be built with all
the modern advantage', equally convenient, and on •
much less expensive scale. I said something about
buildings inferior only in point of cost—not in site. not
with regard to arrangeinents—in which many of the
chronic patients might reside, and in which you could
carry out the improved classification. I was un-
derstood to say that those buildings were to be detached,
and would necessitate a separate staff, thereby swelling
the expense to an enormous amount. I intended to say
nothing of the sort. I intended to say that, under the
same roof they might be constructed, it may be, con-
ducted by the same superintendent, and managed by
the same staff ; and so might, instead of lading to an in-
crease, lead to • decrease. I am quite sure that if you
would construct your establishment on the modern princi-
ple, bearing in mind that there will always be • certain
number of chronic eases, and that 75 cases out of 100
will thus be speedily cured and restored to their friends,
I believe the proposition now made will eventually issue,
not only in greater economy to the county, but in the
large restoration of many of those unhappy sufferers to
the business of life, the care of their families, and the
duties of good citixena A little cower propre will
allow me to make one other remark. I think I sug-
gested that you might look out upon the heath for some
situation which I was sure would present itself for your
new asylum. My worthy friend Mr: Floyer says he
trusts you won't go to some wild heath, and where the
water it very brackish. That is assuming the very
thing which I deny. I maintain that on these heatlui,
if you look for it, you will find, not only very good
water, but the best of water. And with regard to heaths,
I need only mention that her Majesty's Government,
under the advice of her Majesty's Commissioners in
Lunacy, have determined to build a large asylum for
the reception of criminal lunatics—from all parts of the
kingdom—and the Commissioners of Lunacy have
recommended a site on Bagshot heath, which is just as
wild and just as unprovided with water, according to
received notions, as any spot found elsewhere. But it
does so happen that it possesses every advantage of soil
and water that can be had. There cannot be found •
spot more eligible throughout England tam Bagshot heath.
I only say this, because Mr. Irloyer seemed to think I
had advocated Wareham heath, wild, and un provided with
water, and fit only for the habitation of owls, and the
dens of wild beasts. (Laughter and applause.)
• • •

Mr. FLOYLa said he wss not present when the noble
earl made the remark. Had he known who it was he
(Mr. Floyer) should have qualified his words somewhat.
He only understood that wine strong expressions
had been made upon the subject of water, and his friend
Mr. Frampton, who lived dose by the heath, said be
knew perimeally the difficulty of getting water. But he
(Mr. Floyer) knew nothing at all about it, and did
rather discourage the idea of the heath. The question
of a good supply of water was of great importance. The
eensamplion of mi/k by the asylum inmates was known
to he considerable. and be should not torment, thereto's,
le pt to laad wheitbesapol7d water yes peer ; yet
ts—sh• mkt Ale on breed heath land well
Teetered be should wiry it would be undesirable.
The matter tbs. dropped.