The Stourbridge Observer, Cradley Heath, Halesowen & District Chronicle.
Stourbridge, West Midlands, England, 1871-11-25 00:00:00

11_

THE TICHBORNE CASE.

The hearing of this owe was continued on Monday
morning, and it was the forty-seventh day that it has
3ccupied the attention of the judge and jury,

Jeremiah Cole was the first witness. He miii I am a
gardener. I wan twenty-live years and nine months in the
Carbineens. I recollect Roger Tichborne joining In Dublin,
but I was more acquainted with him in Canterbnry I was
an officer's servant and waited at mesa. !saw Mr. Tichbonie
every day. I saw the plaintiff last Friday, and I say that he
is Sir It. Tichbonie—the same I knew in the Carbineers.
had but little conversation with him. I was with him about
forty minutes. l have only been with him that once since
his return. I have no doubt of his identity.
The Attorney-Oeueral You have no more doubt that he
is Roger Milburn,: than that you are Jeremiah Cole ?—No.
Ws features are very much like what they used to be. Ills
Valk is much better than It used to be. The tone of his voice
is clearer than it was. I recollect the twitching of his eyes
when he was at Canterbury. Ile had no other trick " that
rec,ilect. I was sent up from Nottingham to see the claimant
In consequence of a gentleman certifying that I was the father
of the child that was euffocated In the Canterbury barracks.
liras eurfocated in the closet. Mr. Houghton certified.
He did it in consequence of eeeing my name in the paper in
the claimant's evidence. Ile wrote to hauler, Rose, and
Norton about me, and so I came up. When I saw the
claimant he dial not begin to remind me of the child. He
talked about the child. I was not aetonished that he re-
membered it, because everylenly in the barracks knew it. The
child was suffocated in November, 1553.

To the Lord rider .Justiee lam quite sure about the year
ml also about the month.

The Attorney.Oeneral What makes you certalo of the
date? If you hat a child suffocated, you could remember
the date. - I was certain he was the man because no one
could recollect It who was not in the barracks.

To the bord Chief Justice The claimant did not say any-
thing about the date when this happened. The child was
two years and a half old, anti its christian name was John.
It was buried at Canterbury, in a churchyard just below the
barr.ichs.

Mr. liareldine Sharpus : I live at York and am an architect
and building surveyor. For ten years I was architect in
Ripon, and am brother of Mr. Shamus who was mayor of
Scarborough. In 1053 1 went out in the Crow. to Mei-
-out-tie. I was going on to Sydney, but I did not think the
Teasel safe. From Melbourne I went to Sydney and then
returned. I Was in Melbourne in July, 1854. I landed at
Sandridge pier. It was originally Liardet's landing-place.
In July, 155.1, I remember being on board the steamer called
the Cornet. I used to run front llobson's Bay to Melbourne.
I came from Williamstown. The Comet took men off a
vessel in the bay. She was a rakish.looking vessel, low in
the water and three masted. She was schooner-rigged and
had a round stern I was below when the Comet came
beside the vessel, but came up and saw sme persons
coming down the paddlebox, evidently sailors. When
they got on board Sonie of them went aft, while
some of them stood about the chimney. I went
aft. I saw one of the men Was well &eased, anti there
was a young gentleman with hint dressed as a sailor, but
evidently not a miler. I was talking to another party
when the young gentleman turned ro ..... I and made an
observation, lie had is decidedly French accent. I saw him
lift his eyebrows. It struck me front that that he was in-
terested in what I was talking about. I was at the York
races in August last and saw the plaintiff. lie was sitting
on the balcony, at the grand stand, and I had my opera
glass. Everybody was hunting at him. I formed no opinion
as to him then. Since then I have conversed with plaintiff,
and have come to the conclusion that he is the name person
I saw at Melbourne on board the Comet iii 10.4.

Mr. Serjeanttontine: Now, tell me what was the con-
versation on board the Comet between you and the young
gentlemen.

The Attonieptieueral oldected to the reception of the
evidence.

Mr. Serjeant Ballantine contended that the plaintiff having
proved that he was at MeThorne at this time, and that being
one of the questions in the cause, the evidence was admissible
in support of his statement.

The Loni Chief Justice if identity were established. then
the evidence would be admissible; but then that was the
question in the cause. lam of opinion that at present the
Identity is not suthciently made out to admit the evidence.
I therefore reject the evidence if the objection is premed.

The .%ttorney-General, after some consideration, said he
would withdraw his objection, though he himself thought
that the answer would not be evidence. Ile added that he
would withdraw his objection if his lordship had any doubt
as to the evidence not being admissable.

The Lord Chief Justice said that he thought that the an-
swer would not be evidence, though there might be some
doubt about the matter. If the evidence were pressed he
would admit it.

-Mr. Ocejeunt Itallantlne said that he would accept his
lordship's ruling, and would not press the evidence.
The question was then withdrawn for the present.
Witness continued : I first saw the plaintiff's photograph
In a shop window in York, in the early part id this month.
I recognized the portrait as like the party I saw on hoard the
Comet. The copy of the portrait that I purchased on Satur-
day keeps this impression on my mind. I knew Mr. Liardet
In 1549 and lea%

What was the name of the vessel from which the sailors
disembarked ?—The Op''!/. When I saw the plaintiff on
Saturday I talked with him for about three-quarters ,•f on
hour. I talked to him about what I have said to-day ;
but I cannot recollect the words I sold. Ile told me
that the gentlemanly man with him on the Comet would be
the captain of the Ovrey. I had given no description of
him except that he was a well-dressed man. I said that the
young gentlctuan was with a well-dressed man when he
talked to me lie said that he would be the captain. I
have generally a good memory for faces.

•
What is your impression ?—That the plaintill was the young
man on board the Comet.

Tee Lord Chief Justice : The only undoubted portraits of
Roger Tichborne are the two daguerreotypes taken in Ame-
rica : but the photograph produced by the witness is not
taken from either of them. It is like them, but it is not
copied from either of them perhaps some person can throw
some light as to what this was copied from? The coat is
not in the same position as in either of the daguerreotypes.

Mr. (Arrant Your lordship should know that photo-
graphers eau dress any portrait as they please.
The Lord Chief Justice : Can that then account for
some appearances in the many photographs I have already
seen in this ease.

Mr. (Ward It was a very common form id libel in Paris
to put the heads of distinguished porsons upon grotesque
bodies.

Witness continued Looking at the dagnerreotypes, I am
still of the same opinion as to the plaintiff's identity.

In answer to questions from the Attorney-General, the
witness said that he shipped brandy to Melbourne. He had
previously kept an hotel at Hull. Ile went to MeMourne be-
cause he was ordered to take a sea voyage for the benefit of
his health. He thought he learned the name of the Oxpreq
only on the day after the persons he had mentioned came
aboard.

The Lord Chief Justice : You never saw her name f—l
can't say that I did.
The ford Chief Justice: flow many altogether came on
board the Comet I—l should say half a dozen, but I cannot
speak for certain. I cannot say what became of them at
Melbourne. I landed at Sandridge and walked up. My own
Impression is that all the passengers landed there. I never
saw the well-dressed young man from this time until the
York races. Before the York races I had heard about this
case. I had read the cross-examination of the plaintiff about
Melbourne.

Did it Interest yon!—Yes, it brought back old recollections.
I heard two or three years ago of the plaintiff being picked
up and carried to Melbourne. It did not interest rue.
People about that time were often picked up. I only heard
about the plaintiff being picked up since this case.
When did it occur to you that he might be the same
person you saw on board the Comet I—When the Osprey was
mentioned in the papers.
Was that the first time yon heard the Osprey mentioned 1—
Yes; It then came to my niind. This was in the claimant's
statement. I have no recollection of hearing the Ovrey
mentioned before that. I have forgotten whether I had. I
never took any interest in this ease until it had been opened.
I never had my interest awakened in the case until the
plaintiff mentioned the Ogpre y.
The cross-examination was continued at great length, and
the letter of the witness to the plaintiff was read. It stated
that the writer begged to my that he was on Board the Comet
steamer from the Bay of Mellmurne on the very occasion of
her carrying the crew of the Brno and added, "I spoke to
you about the narrowness of the Yarn, and think I told you
that the pelicans had loft the Bay In consequence of so much
shipping, but that they could be shot sometimes up the Salt-
water river. I remember asking some of the crew of the Bella
If you were a Frenchmen on account of your slight accent,
and was told that you were a passenger and an Englishman.
I yesterday saw for the first time a photograph of you when
you were not so stout as when [saw you on the Grand Stand
at York on the first day of the races at York in August last.
I feel confident I shall know you as the person I saw on the
Coinoe, I think, in June, 1654."

- Witness continued : When I saw the plaintiff I spoke to
him about what was in the letter. Ile said hiB memory was
not very coml. We both talked. I spoke of Liardet, but
the plaintiff did not remember him. Ile remembered him
on the C.net. Ile gave me no account of the shipwreck.
Ile talked about riding in the bush and the horse getting
Into a wombat bush. I did not go to the plaintiff to be satis-
fied of his identity. I was satisfied. I cannot say I put any
quest' to him. I spoke to Mr Liardet of Buckley, the
man who was found among the natives., and who had
forgotten his mother tongue. I said that I thought it quite
possible this should happen. I wrote my letter to the
plaintiff without memoranda, and off-hand. I had kept a
diary, but I had lost it. I also had a letter which reminded
me of dates. I have sent for it, but it has not come. I
afterwards found the letter, and it :Mewed ins that
It was not June, but July, 1854, that I was on board
the Comet. When I wrote to the plaintiff I had
read the evidence of Liardet and Lockhard. I re-
ceived a letter In reply to mine from Baxter, Rose, and
Norton, in which they say —"Dear sir, Serjeant Ballantine
has handed us your letter of the 111 k, and we ask you to be
kind enough to come to town by the first train to morrow,
In order that we may confer with you on the subject of
your letter,' and a remittance for travelling expenses was
enclosed.

Witness When I came I told them what I knew. We
did not .confer." My letter was read over, and I corrected
ml said it was July. 31y attention was not called to the
tact of June being an incorrect date.

Did Mr. Spofforth say If it was In June it must have been
some one else ?—Certainly not. I corrected the date from
having found the letter. I found it a day or two after I
wrote. When I did not get an answer for two or three days,
I did not expect to hear any more about it. My letter is
dated the 11th, and Messrs. Baxter, Rose, and Norton's is
the 10th. I did not write to correct the date of June after I
found the letter I have spoken of. I never corrected it until
I was in London. The plaintiff reminds me of the person I
saw in 1854. ills eybrows remind me. On truant the Cornet,
when I spoke of the pelicans, he lifted his eyebrows nail
seemed interested. When I saw him on Saturday there was
the same thing. We talked of pelicans.
And when you mentioned pelicans, up went the eyebrows?
—Yes. (A laugh.) I detected no French accent. Ills sine
dill not remind meet the poring man nn the Oon.t. Ile Wail
fattiah this man. I noticed that on the Comet he had not
the bearing of a sailor. There is something in the mimes-
Mon of his face which I cannot describe, that satisfied nie
that he is the same. The plaintiff has the same expressinn
In his eyes that he had in 1c54. Ile is stouter and older, but
there lithe same face, the same expression.
Re-examined I have resided in York since laid March. I
was born at Ripon. Plenty of people In the neignlmurhood
knew where to find me. My son, who was on board the
Cornet, Is dead. I did not know my evidence would be of
consequence until I saw the Osprey was mentioned. Na one
at Mr. Spofforth's office made any summation to me as to my
evidence. I had no communication with nay person previous
to my writing my letter. I was not satisfied alma the date,
and therefore I looked for a letter, and found one. I have
written home for It, but it has not come. I have formed my
opinion upon the general appearance of the plaintiff.
Mr. Serjeant Ballantine tendered as evidence some ship.
ping detriments and testimonials which the witness had
enclosed In his letter as vouching his authenticity and re-
spectability, but after some discussion it was not pressmi.
Witness to the foreman of the jury : I have made more
than one voyage to Australia, and am acquainted with the
appearance of seamen.

•
T. b said you saw the seamen embark over the paddle.bes
Did pm °beery° that they brought their sea chests, kits, sail
so on saw none. They might have gone by lighters. he
dean., Wan 0111 y a small one.

Had they nothing with them?—They might have had a
bundle urtwo.

Was there anything inconsistent in the appearance of those
men with the story of their having been picked up a lea?—
No.

Did you read in the newspapers an account of it?-1 can-
not say I did. The young man had on a pica jacket. Ilia
dress was not widely different from that of the sailors. Ile
stood away from the other men, and his gait and bearing
were not those of a seaman. I did not notice that he had
any kit. The ‘npn o might he half-a-mile from Sandridge
pier or INIt I lout know or ally sullen' home or place where
shipwrecked sailors would l taken care 4,f. They might go
to Lloyd's agent.

WilLjnnbnvtn I was In the Carhineers from 1849 to 1801,
and went through the Crimean and Indian mutiny campaigns.
1 knew Mr. Tiehh ,rne in the regiment, and I was In his uom-
pany four boon to four-and-a half looms A lay for twelve
months. I have seen the plaintiff, and I told him if he
would answer two questions I put to him he must be

the man or the devil. (Laughter'. tinequestion was about
a young donkey being put Into his bed. (Laughter). I
asked him if he could tell me the man who fetched the young
donkey out of his bed. Ile mid, '• William Davis, I be-
lieve." That is me. I did fetch the donkey out :I aaked
him what he gave me three days drill for. Ile said he did
not recollect, but afterwards he said he had given me three
days' drill for rubbing an oil rag on my horse's leg to make
It shine. I had done It to hide the dirt. It was the serjenut-
major who found me out and brought me before Mr. Tieh-
borne. It was nerjeant-Major TM. Ile was killed in the
Indian Mutiny.

Crosa-examined: I am living at Danhy, in Staffordshire,
and work W 9 yard. below the surf ace. of. the earth.

Mr. Hawkius : Then you are very glad to be here. I sup-
pose you are not seen much about Hawley?

Witness: I see the sun once a week on S lays. I came
up in consequence of a letter (von Mutter, Rose, and Norton.
I wrote to them In Slay about my being in the Carbincers.
I received cry letter from Messrs. Baxter, Rose, and Norton
hod Frblay, when I was 509 yards down in the earth, and
1,100 yards trim the shaft. and I came at onte. I was told
on Friday night schen I arrived to go to Mr. spofforth's oitice
by ten next morldw. I did not then see the plaintiff nor
Mr. Bahrent to the best of cry knowledge. I don't know
why I went on Saturday morning except that I was sent for.
I talked with a man and his wife there. I asked him whether
he had been in the Carbincers or whether his wife had. (A
laugh.)

„ .
Mr. Hawkins : Ten thought that she was a ” white ser-
geant ? "—Nu! did nut. They chatted together, mid I thought
tu myself--
What did you think ?—Where I should go that night.
Laughter). I slid not speak to them attest the donkey
story. Net a man in the werld knew of the donkey ex-
rept Mr. Roger Tiehherne and I at the time it happened.
He asked She to say nettling almut it, and I kept my
word. Of course Heise who put it into the bed knew
about it.

Was your impression down to Saturday last that no one
but yourself and Mr. Roger Tiahborne knew f the donkey
story ?—Yen. very probably those who put it in might en-
quire how it got out.

The Lord Chief Justice What did you do with the donkey?
—When Mr. Tichborne went in he dropped the candle, I sup-
pose in his fright, and ran out calling to me, " Sentry, sentry
(I was the sentry , the Devil Is in my 1.1." (Laughter.) I
said to him, " I lout want to see the Devil, sir." (Renewed
laughter) But he says, " tai must fetch him out of my
bed." I said, " Sir, it is death for a soldier to desert hill pest
until he is properly relieved : you must get me relieved." I
did not want to go, for I was no lie, then, and I did not
want to see the donkey, or Devil, as he called it. (Laughter
Ile told me he would be answerable for my post, and I had
to they him. When I went in I picked up the candlestick
and the candle fell out, and I was expecting every moment
that the Devil would take hold of me• Laughter.) Ile
shouted to me, " you, you have put the candle out."
,Laughter.)

The Lord Chief Justice : What did you do with the don-
key? Renewed laughter.)
Witness: The donkey was tied down to the bed. I undid
the fore-legs first, and there was a night cap on the donkey,
(Laughter . I undid the fore-legs Id the donkey, and he sat
up, Mid Sir Roger looked in and bolted again. Laughter,. I
shouted to him, "It is a young donkey, sir," and when he
came in a second time the little donkey was going piddle.
paddle about the room, and he said " - yell, don't you
let him kick up 'a row there, let us carry him down.' I
said, 'Take the fors part, it is the lightest (a laugh, " but
he said, " No, I will take the hind part."
The Lord Chief Justice : But what did you du with the
donkey? (Laughter.) We carried It down, and put it Into
the barrack-yard to run about.

To Mr. Hawkins : I wrote to the plaintiff in consmmence
of hearing that an impostor '• was claiming the estate, and
I could identify him. A bookseller wrote to use.

To the Jury : I did not mention to the bookseller the inci-
dents I could identify the plaintiff by,

. -
To the Lord Chief Justice : I mentioned it to a man who
works with me, Ind he did not mention it to anybody.
Mr. Joseph Tapwell : I have a pension from the 6th
Dragoon Guards, and keep a public-house in Bath. I was
farrier-major when Mr. Tichborne joined in let/. I knew him
fnim that time till he left in ISM. I shod Mr. Tichborne's
horses. I only saw him once this nineteen years, and that
was at any brewery in Bath. It was in October, 1067. 1
talked with him in my own house fir about an hour, and
afterwards I went to the hotel with him. He came in and
asked for Mr. Togwell. When I came In he said, How are
you Togwell ?" I said I was InAter than I had hotai. Ile
said, " Do you recollect any young officers joining in
1,49." I mentioned Mr. Norbury and another and poling
Tichborne, and as soon as I spoke his name I saw a movement
in his brow, and I said, " By God, sir, you are the nom," and
he said, " I am." I did not know he was coming, and I
recognised him Inn three minutes. I have never Seell him
since. I hail seen the case in the papers. 1 know Allen. He
never t 4 Obi me that he had had a long conversation with the
plaintiff before I saw him. The wiliness was questioned as
to ant affidavit he had made. For some time he refused to
look at it, and when compelled to do so he said the signature
was not his, that he Valid not write SO well. In eonclueion
he said, "The signature is not mine; I cannot write so
well.'

To the Lord ChiefJustiee : I swore an affidavit in October,
I believe. Not on the 2sth November, the date id the affi-
davit. I swore it before Mr. John Stone, who has signed
the affidavit. My wife was asked to make an affidavit, but
she declined.

Witness continued I will swear that I never in all my
life wrote to the plaintiff.
_

Miss Brain was called and asked whether the letter was In
the plaintiff's writing. Al ter c..nsiderahle hesitatinn she said
she believed it was the plaintiff's writing, but there were
many Imitations.

This letter, which was roblressed to Mr. Rouse, said :
" My dear friend, I received a letter from Mr. Tuvwell,
he don't wish Mts. Tugwell to make affidavit, SO it &fit
matter."

Witness: I still persist in saying that I never wrote to
the plaintiff, nor he to me. The clerk at the pension-office
might write, but not me.
Mr. Hawkins Did your wife write to you ?—Never; it
won't do. (Laughter.) The pension clerk said he hail re-
ceived a letter asking for my address in Bath. I bail no
conversation with Mr. Allen about this case before I made
this affidavit.

Re-examined I could not write so well as the signature
of the affidavit. It is not mine, It imitates my hand very
much, but I think it is too good for me. I believe the affi-
davit (after it had been read to him) is in substance the same
as the one I made, but I think the signature is too good for
me, but I would not swear.
The court adjourned soon after tour o'clock.

The trial was resumed on Tuesday, and the first witness
called was George Tike. He said lam now a printer, but in
ISt) 1 was in the Carbineers, and remained there till isr,3.
I knew Mr. Tiehhorne in the regiment, at tioldin and at
Cadar. In Ik:tuber, !Sat. I saw the plaintiff at the waterioo
Jermyn.street. I believe hint to be the linger VA-
borne whom I knew in the Carbineers. 1 ant satisfied of
this, front the answers that he gave to my questions, which
no man hut lie could have answered.

In cross-examination the witness said that Inc had mil-
versed a ith Serjeant.Nlajor Marks :Omit the case, lent did
not know that he told him an)thing about the claimant.
When he had his interview a tin the claimant at the Waterloo
Hotel. Marks was half an hour with the claimant before Inc
witness went in.

Did it strike you u strange that Marks, having already
seen the claimant, should be half an hour with the claimant
before.y, 01 went in ?—N.. After the claimant Mid answered
my questions I agreed to make an affidavit in his favour.
I was there three-quarters of an hour. I have not seen Lim
since.

l'homas Marks: I was a private in the sth Dragoon
Guards, but 1 originally enlisted In the 6th Drage". in
January, 1,47. I remember Mr. Tichborne joining. Ile was
cornet in the regiment I belonged to. I saw him daily, lie
was my squad officer. I continued to see him up to April,
1810. 1 have a good recollection of his features and appear-
ance. I saw the claimant at the Three Owe Hotel, COl-
che,ter. Carroll, Colonel Swinfen's servant, came tor me to
see if I should knew him. At six the next morning I saw the
claimant at the hotel, and at once recognized the claimant
among ten or twelve persons.
Have yen now any doubt almut him ?—Not the slightest.
No mere than I have of my own existence.

Cross-examined : Carrot came for me to Colchester bar-
racks. Ile was with me half an hour. lie hail aeon moody,
I ladieve, before in the barracks. I cannot any whether
he had seen Robinson. Carrot told me he had seen the
claimant, but I cannot say whether this was as early as 1867,
at Croydon. lie did not tell noe that he had seen McCann.
Ile did not say that the plaintiff had grown " enormously
stout." He never mentioned a word of the net, Ile said
that he had got 'much fatter." (Laughter.) There
were only four old Carbineers at Colehester—Carrol, Niarks,
Robinson, and Momly. I sun the Marks. When we went to
the hotel, a gentleman came tin the door, and said we were
loTidge for ourselves whether there was any gentleman we
had known before. The whole four of us were together.

You knew who you were going to ace ?—I was told that
such a person would be there, but I had to judge whether be
was there or not.

To the Lord Chief Justice : I was told that Sir R. Tich-
borne would be there.

Witness continued : We were half an hour outside the
room before we were let in. WO dill not talk about rich-
borne while we waited. I don't believe we mentioned his
name. I rather think we did not.

Did you are anybody as big as the plaintiff in the room ?
I believe that he was the biggest man in the rout. There
was no one approaehing him in size there.. _

In your alai* you say that you 7: instanteously " re
cognised him—That is correct.

Charles Phillips I am now a warder of the Kent county
prison, and was formerly in the oth Dragoon Guards. I was
Sergeant-Instructor hi Musketry. I joined in February,
1W.2, and Lieutenant Tiehborne left in February, isra.
saw him frequently for six months. I drilled with him both
mountLd and dismounted. I next saw him again after his
leaving the regiment last Friday. This was at the Water-
loo Hotel.

Have no any doubt about who he 181—Not the least. He
is Lieutenant Tichborne, of the Carl pincers.
In el....examination the witness said I should say that
I was about ten minutes before I knew the plaintiff. I
knew I was going to see him it took me this time to re-
cognise him because his hack was to the light. Thin was at
one o'clock last Friday. I got him more into the light and
then I was certain. I should have known him in the
street.

Mrs. Elizabeth Inglis My first husband was In the Carbl-
neers. I had ninny opportunities of seeing Lieutenant
Tiehborne. I saw the plaintiff last Friday. I believe he is
the name. I asked him if lie recollected anything aliout a
child, and after thinking a few minutes, lie said " Yes, I do,
hut it was not my horse that hurt the child, it tumbled
down in a fright." This was the fact.
In cross-examination the witness mid the accident she hail
mention.' was not much talk.' about; horsea are always
running away. It was a day's talk.
Mr. Hawkins : Well, a day's talk might be enough about
a child that was wit killed. (A laugh.) Mid you talk to
Stretch (witness's first hesitant) about It cannot say.
While I was waiting at Laster, Rose, and Norton's we
chatted about men who had been in the regiment. We did
not chat about the donkey being in the bed and things of
that sort. I never heard Mr. Tichtiorne's name mentioned.
We were there ha two hours and a half.
Answering further questions, the witnem sahl she would
haveknown lbs plaintiff if she hail met him in the street,
provided she were near enough to him. There was a great
increase in Ids size, hut look (the witness continued) how
long a time has passed.
Lo:you know any gentlemen who have increased like this?—
! know that several gentlemen at Rochester are getting stout.
(laughter.)

William Robinson lam a labourer at Coventry. I joined
the Carbineers in 1043. I knew Mr. Roger Tichborne in the
regiment where I was in 1051. Ile joined in 1048. T had
many opportunities of seeing him. I saw the claimant in
MS, at the Three Cups, colehester, and I identified him
U Mr. R. Tichborne by his expression, his walk, and the
quivering of his eyebrows. I Raw him three days, and had
two or three days conversation with him.
Cross-examined : I was not in the same troop with Mr.
Tichborne. I had a horse that was supposed to he glandered,
and it wagtail in the gun-chest at Portoliello, and no one was
allowed to go near it. I cauth died Mr. Tichborne that he must
not go there. There was every opportnnity of knowing him.
I used to see him also at Cahir. Major Swinfen first spoke to
me about going to the Three Cops. We knew that the person
coming said he was Roger Tichborne When 1 went into the
room there were three sr fourgentlemen there. I*ent in bymy-
self. I wastibont three hours with the plaintiff at Croydon in De-
cember, 1867. Ile was a man who never talked about his affairs.
I had heard about Tichborne having come back, but not
from Carroll. We old Carbineers did not talk about it :
not • word, till I was appointed to see him at the
Three Cups. I might have talked with Marks in the
canteen, hut net with Moody. Moody was of higher rank,
and not allowed to come to the canteen. I told Marks I
should knew Tichborne by his French talk, his knees, and
his eyebrows. This was about six days before the plaintiff
came. Nlajor Swinfen had told us that he was coming. I
toast ill the plaintiff the same kind Id eyebrows, knees, and
talk. Ile talked at Colchester much liken Frenchman. Ile
was much the same man, except that he was stouter. Ile woo;
when at Colchester 11l stone weight. I talked with the plain-
tiff about nine hours altogether. (Laughter. I was three
days with him, and more than three hours a day. We talked
about several affairs that happened in the regiment and the
MOll In the regiment, and all about them.

Mr. James Morley: lam a farmer and maleterer at Hinton.
Smithampton. I have been acquainted with the Tichhorne
family dace I was thirteen. I was In the service of the

two Sir Henry's twenty-one years. I am now about sixty-
live. I knew Roger, but did not talk much with him. I saw
the plaintiff about two years after he came hack, at the
Swan at Alresford. I have seen hins since anti talked with
him. I recognise him by the upper part of Isis face and
features. I have no doubt about him.
Cross-exansined the witness said I never gave Roger tin,
ami I always said that aomethlog would turn up that Ise
would come bark again. People told inn that he had got
enormously stout.
The witness added that when he met the plaintiff the
latter knew him directly he went in. lie called him by
name and shook hands. He called by appointment.
What did you particularly notice in the elannant f—The
upper part of the feet: alld there Was a little ini,ement its
late of his eyes, the sonic as Isis uncle Robert used to have.
I had noticed that when Ise was little boy. Ile only moved
it occasionally. I cannot say whether it weenie right or the
left eye. There was an alteration in the plaintiff's nose
where Inc had had a crack. There is the mark there now. I
ale not aware that anybody told lee about the nose. I don't
recollect whether Roger were a moustache before he went
away. At the Swan the plaisitiff asked me ill reeollected
about sir Henry changing some land, and his father did
not has it. I knew that his father did not like it. lie
asked me if I recollected Stephens building an inn, anti
having no right of way to it. He talked about the sale of
Tichbeme-street in London. He asked me what it fetched,
I thought s:16,000. He said it wan Xls,ooo, and it was worth
double now. I said what a pity it was the Alresford pond
was soul away from the family Ile said, "Morley, the pond
never belmmed to us." I said, "It must at one time, for a
forefather of mine was keeper there to the Tichbothes.” He
said they hint only a fishing and swan right, and it was sill
200 years ago. I knew that the Tichlsornes had only the
await and fishing right, bat questioned him to test him.
My father had told me that they had only the swan and fish-
ing right.
Mr. Thomas Parker: I ale a corn dealer, near Alton, in
Hampshire. I knew Rog...r Charles Tiehbonie about the year
1,:0. Ile used to come to my house riding with Mr. John
Godwin, of Tiehborne, one of. the tenants. I sold Mr. Tic].
borne a hunter. I now the plaintiff at Alresforti on the 2.;t
of Septelober. 1867. I had a short eonversation with him.
I came to the conclusion that he was the same gentlentan I
knew in 1850. He described the horse he bought exactly,
also the pony he was riding. He rode his uncles pony when
he went Vs tee the horse go. I asked him if he remembered
buying a horse of me, anti Ise said " Yee," and tlmt he rode
Ins un4a's ismy then. I have not the slightest doubt of the
plaitstin identity. The upper part of the face is exactly
the same, and thereto the ta itching of the eyebrow.
• • • • .• -

cross-eminined I sold the ire e .111,11t:' I,W. 1 (1.0111
know who was his groom then. I left the horse in the
stable, but I don't know in In, took it. I sold the horse
after a clay's hunting at Tichborne. Mr. Tichborne Ire-
citiently canto to my house before lie went away. The plain-
tiff said that the horse was a o lark brown one, and he said
Inn, rerollected my leaving the horse because he would not
ride it home. The plaintiff did not, that I recollect, say
anything about the price of the horse. Ile said that he was
at the time riding his uncle's pony, ° Louisa." It was a bay
pony.
The servants at Tichborne would know almut thist—
I have made ingliiry of a servant, named Lillywhite, and
found the name of the pony was correct. I saw Carter
the same day that I saw the plaintiff. Mr. Rinse, also,
was there. I might have been there half an Muir before
I saw the plaintiff. Ile was out shooting. Rouse
knew me, but I did not know Carter. Acted, the
butcher, told Carter who I was, and that I was anxious
to see Sir Roger. I dare say he told Carter my name. I
might have mentioned the horse before I went there to
several persons. I did not menti ~,, it whilst I was waiting
there. Rouse might have known about the horse. I recog-
nised the plaintiff after a few minutes. The upper part of
the face has not altered exeept that he is older and stouter.
The lower part of the face is fuller. Roger Tichborne had
an occasional twitch. You couloi not talk to him a litarter
of as hour without seeing it. The plaintiff had a very slight
French accent when I saw him at the Swan.

Re-examined I knew the plaintiff after I had talked to
him for a minute or less. The first time I saw Carter wan at
the swan, and I did not know Muston.

- -
To the Lord thief Justice : I had not heen ask“l to go to
the Swan so ace the plaintiff. I had not mentioned that I
was going there. I had not previously tried to see the

Robert Bromhy lam an out-door officer of the customs
at Poole. I have lived at Poole all my lifetime, and I know
I pton well. I knew Mr. R. C. Tichhorne. I have often
seen Itini at Upton, and also at Poole. I now the plaintiff on
Poole Quay, at Po .le. There were two gentlemen with
hint. I was afterwards told that the two were Mr. Rouse
and Mr. Holum.. He wan standing on the quay talking
with Ifolmea and Rouse. They said something shout Bran k-
sea. The plaintiff spoke, and I called Nlr. Holmes and Nle.
house, and said," Is not that Sir R. Tichlornie that formerly
lived at Upton ?" tine of them tapped him on the shoulder. and
said, here is somebody that seems to know you. He talked
to me and Said, 'What may your name be f' I said, "My
name is Bromby." Ile said, "What, son of Bromby,
the hoatnian on West Shore ?" I said, "Yes; I am,'
We walked up the quay together as far as nu heat Tall. and
Sir. Holmes said he should like to see meat the London Hotel
next day. I went, and had an hour's conversation with the
plaintiff about boats, shooting, and an island near Upton.
We talked of wild-fowl shoritingoind also rabbit oluvoting, on
the island. I asked him if he recolleeted toy landing at Upton
offers goose that I had crippled. Ile noel "Yes, I recollect
the circumstances very well. It wash, November, was it not ?"
I then said, " You attempted to take the goose from nie."
Ile said " I 41i.1, and we naill a hit a tussel over it." I said,
"We did. I thought myself as good a man as you, lint I
found you were too good in match for me." /Ie said, " You
found it no.' I then said, " You gave me up the goose."
Ile said, " I cautioned you not to come there again. as
I had seen yon many tine-s on the island before." I asked
him it he recollected Hie canoe that he had. He Pahl,
" What, the old black one ? " I sail, " Yes, the one that you
wanted my father to come aml repair on a Sunday." He said,
Ile did not come," I Bahl, " No, my father wool.] not come
on Sunday, but he went on the Monday." Ile said, " Sou
went to the house after that—did you riot?" I said "We
and lie said, " You got jolly well tight before you
left." (Laughter.) What the plaintiff told me strut the
prose and getting tight was true. When I saw liinl no the
quay I had no more thought of seeing him than you. I
recognised him as Roger l'ichhorne by his features, his like-
ness to Sir E. Doughty, his twitching of his eye, and his
walk. I have no doubt whatever of his identity.
Joseph Smith I an, a gardener with Canim Fisher, at
l'ilshott. I was under.gardeller to Sir E. Doughty for six
years. I knew Sir. Roger Tiehlmrne before he joined the
army. I saw him very often when ne was stripping at rich-
issue, and on the Ist February, 1070, in dermyil.
street. I was sent by Sir. Guildford I Inalow. fie
told me I should see Sir Roger coming out of a
house in Church-walk. I went to see him, and stood is,
derrnymstreet. Ile came out if a house and g. 4 into his
carriage. I did net speak to him. Sir. thislow said I was
not to ; that I should see him afterwards to speak to him.
r•le"/IIIisli bins lip his wdlk tmd bona: no ...Au hiss sir IL
Tiebborne. I have she, seen the plaiotitt at Alreaford, and
have no thollit of hi noleirlita.

Cross-examined It was October of last year when I saw
him at Alms:ord. I have only seen the plaintiff on these
two occasions until 1 saw him come out of the court yester-
day. Retire Roger joint,' the army I saw him almost every
morning walk through the garden. Ile was there more
than a mouth at the time.

Ind you ever exchange a word with him until 1870 I.—Not
that I can recollect. I have heard him speak many times if
people he might be with. I 11:11I heard that it was supposed
that Roger Ticllimrne was drowned. I heard that the plaintiff
was coining home, and afterwards that he had come home,
and that Lally Tichborne had recognised him as her son. I
di.l not know Mr. (Meow till I went to see him at the Reform
club. Cooper, who has been examined, came for me.
C.mper came about 00 miles to see me about this matter.
Ile said Mr. finslow had sent him. It., asked me if I thimght
I should know Roger Tichborne if I raw him, lie said he
had seen him. lie said he was much stouter than when he
left. Ile did not tell me at salt the twitch. I had never
noticed that nor the upper part of the lace. I knew
him more by his walk, and by the turn in the knee. Ile
rather turned one of the knees in. Sir Henry also bad
a turn in the knee. I never !noticed ally ~ther knock-
kneed men loft the Tichbornes. I told Cooper that f should
know ldm by his walk if I knew him at 1111, cooper did
not tell me that I can recollect about the plaintiff turning
his knee in. I think Cooper said that he had recognised
him in a moment. I don't think that he said how. Ile
did not say that he turned one knee in. Mr.
onslow told me to stand in Jermyn-street, at the bottom
of Church.walk, wait till I had seen thesplaintiff, and then
tell lum what 1 thought. Mr. onslow did not lint me in
Jermylostreet, but he did go with me to the top I Church-
walk, and directed me to stand at the bottom. I saw him at
the top of the walk after I had seen the plaintiff. I don't
think Mr. Onslow told me that the plaintiff would conic ont
of a house in Church-walk. He did not. I did not know
whether he would come tint of a house in the walk or in
Jermyn-street. the told me I should see him get into a
carriage, and the carriage was standing there.

The court again aajourned a few minutes past four o'clock.

The hearing of this case was resumed on Wednesday
morning, when Mr. Wm. W. Bulpitt gave the following
evidence am a member of the firm of linteat and Hall,
at Winchester, bankers. lam also a Justice of the Brace
for the county. I remembor Sir henry and Lady Tichbonte
living at Tiehborne for many years, with six of the hand-
somest young ladies in England for daughters. (Laughter.)
I had seen Roger before he left England, hunting four or five
thorn. I recollect his features. When the plaintiff came
to England I heard of It like other people. In March, 1,0;7,
I was at Mr. Holmes office to ask how the case was nioving,
I had no intention of seeing the plaintiff. While I was
there, Sir R. Tichborne's name was announced. Ile came in,
RIM Mr. Holmes formally introduced him to me. I said,
"Sir Roger, you have got your bark to the WindOW. I must
ask you to change places with me. I want to well Imk
you over." Ile changed places, and I stared at him anti
thoroughly examined him, and said, "I have great pleasure
in recognizing you as Roger Ovules Tichborne, the same
man I saw in the hunting field." I recognized him without
any sort of hesitation. I did not at that particular time
advance him money. I procured an interview between him
and I losford. A great deal of conversation took place be.
tween them. I remember the plaintiff asking Gosford if he
remembered leaving him at Southampton when he left Eng-
land. Cosford said, "I don't adndt it." Gosford said,
" Do you remember leaving with me before you left Eng.
land a browmpaper parcel containing a letter 3" The
plaintiff said, "I do." Bosford said, "Do you remember
the contents of the letter in the parcel?" Gosford pressed
him two or three times with the question. The answer,
after some hesitation, was, " I don't at this moment recol-
leet." Gnsford said, "I have some other letters of yours
about selling out front the army " t said, "Where is the
parcel and letter?" Ile said, " With my other papers and
letters in London." In answer to other questions the plain-
tiff said that Ile was at Canterbury when he quitted the
army, and he wanted to quit because he was in debt Von or
Lion. Bosford asked whether there was not a difference
between him and his father npon it. He said " Yes." (ion'
ford asked if the plaintiff at the moment was tint disposed to
ren min in the regiment, and the plaintiff said, " Yes, because
the regiment wasordered to India." Bosford asked why he did
!Mt go with it, and the plaintiff said, " Because the order
was countermanded." flosfoni, in answer to me, said that
these answers were perfectly true awl correct. At the in-
terview I had and at the present time I have to, doubt of the
claimant's identity. I desired my clerk at the Alresford
Bank to place I:500 at his tlisposal to assist him in claiming
his rights. The claimmit said he had been very much twitted
with not meeting monitors of his family, and he said he was
willing to meet Mrs. Radcliffe, Mr. Stourton, and others, at
any time and place, and he desired Mr. Bostonl to make
arrangements for the meeting. I void, " You had better
have it third disinterested party at the interview," and he
asked me to go with him. I agreed to go. Mr. 00,fonl
said he would get the interview, and afterwards I saw Mr.
Buffington, the solicitor to the Donghty estates, lett there
TIDA no such interview that I know.

cross-examined : I visited at Tichborne during Sir James's
time, but not I hiring the time of the other (coronets Ile
banked with me, bat his dowager did not after his time.
The occasion that I noticed Roger in the hunting-tleld was
when he lost his hat and rode without it most of the day.
It was a boisterous rough day. I noticed his hair, ft was
a hazel colour and looked as though there was a great deal
of pontatum upon it. I mly heard of the plaintiff coining
home in connection with the rest of the people. I heard
lie hail been to Paris, and that the dowager acknowledged
laim. I first saw the claimant at Mr. Holmes's. I knew
nothing of Mr. Holmes hilt so the claimant's attorney. I have
been often at hie .111171.1 t ask what Man IT'S wing. This was more
from curiosity than anything else. I only took an interest in it
as one of the public. The meeting with the claimant and
Mr. Holmes was purely accidental. There were no regular
days when I came to town and might be expected to call
there. I recognised the claimant when I saw him in two or
three minutes, and congratulated him, and hoped soon to
see him in his old family seat. I had no conversation with
him before I recognised Itim. I was always struck w Hit the
length of his eyebrows ; his eyelids I fancied were long, awl
his mouth. I recognised hint by his features genenally ; Ids
nvnith, and his appearattoe generally.
What did you think about his head ?--i thought nothing
particular shout his head. I placed the L5OO to his credit in
March, I think. I think it was almut the name time that I
saw

To the Lord I %tiff Justice • I think that It was the day or
two before I saw I . 111 tile 1.1•Ist 14 nay recollection I wrote
a letter to the plaintiff telling him what I had dyne. I think
I hail wrath,. to him that I had placed £5OO to his credit
before I saw hint.

Mr. Serjeant Ballantine said that he would take care that
the date I ,f the advanm should he ascertained definitely.

Thu Attorney General you offer to advance him
twenty times WI much ?-42ertainly not
Ind you ever intimate to him or anybody you wordo ad-
vance twenty tunes as much t—roople used to joke me for

having advanced him £5OO, and I might have said that
would advame him .000,000—said it as a Joke. I was not
Roger's tanker before he went away. I don't suppose he
bad a banker. There is no other Bulpitt. a banker, at
Winchester. After the .k&o0 I advanced the plaintiff sIOO
more 4550 is all I advanced.
• -
- -

Did you afterwards make any proposals for an advance?—
The dowager was anxious that I should advance more nwney,
hut I said I could not without security. I said, "If you
Insure your life, I will consider It," but she declined to un-
dergo an examination, Midi nothing more was heard of it. I
don't recollect that I made any proposal myself. I cannot
say positively whether I made soy proposal to the dowager;
but 111 did It came to nothing. I will not undertake to any
positively that I made no pnmosal. lam satisfied that I
have not done so on the part of the hank. I may have said.
"1 will find you money out of my private estate," but!
don't recollect.
- -

Did you ever make a proposalgolng to the extent of £5,000?
—I perfectly remember stating to the dowager that I would
find money, lint that was when the ilissuranee was talked of.
To the best of my recollection, I do not remember any other
pniposal. Messrs. Barclay were my agents. Now their name
is mentioned, I do remember going to Barclays' and asking
them whether they would advance 0,000 or £l,OOO, and.there
was an end. I lid not ask anybody else lint them. 1 never
proved my debt under the plaintiff's bankruptcy.
•

. . - , .
On the 26th of June, 1667, did the claimant ask you to ad.
vance him £100?-1 do not recollect it. I think that there
war an advance made by other people, but I declined to go
further.

(The claimant's pass-book was at this period put in. The
£5OO credit was not entered, but the lint draft against it
was the 2lith of March, 160.,

'
In your affidavit you any. "On the 28th of March, 1887, I
was in the ,dlice if Mr. Holmes, the plaintiff's solicitor, but
not expecting to see the plaintiff. Ile, however, was an-
nounced during my visit, and on his entering Mr. liolittes's
room I at once recognised hint, particularly by the tipper
part of his face and head, as Mr. Roger Tichbonie, the eldest
son of Sir James Francis Doughty Tichborne, whom I fir-
surly knew and 1 tent with." Is that right ?—No, it is a
Illi.takt, ill drawing it.

But you have sworn to lt.—l know I have.
And for the purpose of displacing Ali. Alfred Tlchhorne's
sou. You also say that " I dined with him several times,
and so convinced was I of his Identity that I placed A:500 to
credit." Is that right: It all wrong.

But this affidavit was printed and circulated, and I dare
say you hilt. copy.--I dare say I did. The £5OO was placed
to his credit hire I saw the plaintiff. It emit he a mistake
in drawing the affidavit. I lit not take the affidavit hook to
Barclays to induce them to advance the Vi.lloll. I did not
tell them that I had made an affidavit in support of the
claim. I hold no security for any advances from the plaintiff
or the dowager. I nes er asked for security.

Did you, as stated in the affidavit, have much intercoune
with the plaintiff bet oven March, 1607, and June 1667?-1
have no doubt I saw him several times. know WI% Mayne,
a magistrate for Hampshire, and Mr. Moody, librarian of
the museum at Winchester. I don't recollect having had a
conversation with them, but I do not deny it. Mr. Mayne
might have asked me if I should know the plaintiff, but I
don't recollect.

Did you say you should not be able to recognise hint, an
you had only seen him In the hantinglleld, and had no
conversation with him, and that you had no Moe of his tea•
tuft's, awl therefore could not identilly hint ?—1 never said
anything of the sort. Mr. Moody is n:tw dead, but Mr.
Mayne is alive. This matter was one of very general
conversat in Hampshire, and therefore I cannot recol-
lect all I said and all the people I spoke to. I was
at the interview at the Grosvenor in June, 1067. Mr. Ink-
stone was there. 1 don't know who he is. I have met hint
In Mr. Holmes's office. I cannot say whether he was in the
law. Mr. Goldoni and a Mr. White, who I have been told
is a large hop factor, was there. Mr. White was almost a
stranger to me, but I think that I had met him with Mr.
Holmes. a clerk fit the City. I had met there Mr. I nkstone
also. The question of raising n 1111 l ey may have been dis-
cussed at the club, but I knew nothing of it. Ido not re-
collect It. I did not know that those gentlemen had
advanced money till afterwards.
We have hail proof that they each claim f 3,000 under the
bankruptcy ?—f did not know it. The letters handed to toe
are from me to Mr. Gosford. The letters were dated the
24th May, and lilt June, 1007. The first said :—" My dear
sir, I should very much like to Meet you. Will you come
mid dine with me at the Grosvenor on Monday, the 3rd of
June, or any day excepting Saturday ; and the other said, "
shall be happy to see you at the Grosvenor II utel no Thurs.
day."
- - - - - - • •

Witness continued Mr. Gosford only expected to meet me
at the Grosvenor. lie owed me money at the time—perhaps
£5OO. It had been more. Ile was a needy man, I should say.
I had pressed him for the money. I cannot say whether I
had threatened that the law must take its course. It did
afterwards take its clause. Sly object in getting Sir 6o-
ford there was to place him in close contact to talk of the
500 things they must know together to prevent the lawyers
ruining the property.
To the Lord cldel Justice : It was that they might identify
each other.

The witness was asked whether his opinion had been
affected in any way by what passed on the occasion, and he
answered: " My opinion of the plaintiff has never been
affected from the time I first saw him at Mr. Holmes's
Office. If what passed at the Crosvenor had any effect it
was that my opinion WM doubly confirmed. It was most
decidedly confirmed over and over again by what passed that
night. They could not have talked to Isle another as they
did without having known each other for years.

bid you know the life the plaintiff had led and the com-
pany he had kept for the previous SiA months ?—No, I did
not know McCann or Carter had been with him. I under-
stood tingle was living in his house. I knew Rouse hail
Tichismte's entire contblenee. and even opened the plaintiff's
letters when he was away for a few days. I know Mr.
itaigent had been much with him. I had conversation with
Mr. Gosford before the plaintiff came.
The Attorney-General now proposed to ask the question
whether Mr. Gosford said that he had asked the plaintiff at
Gravesend who had made his will, and whether he answered
Mr. llopkins, of course; but this, question being again with-
drawn upon objection, the witness was asked if his opinion
would have been shaken if this haft passed —Witness sail
I knew to Ailing of the will. It Mr Hopkins had not done sip,
it anti he simply a falsehood, and would not affect identity.
If the answer had area untrue, it would not have affected my
opinion as to his identity.
‘Vould it not have suggested forgetfulness upon a subject
on which forgetfullness would have been difficult can
hardly say what would have been suggested to my nand ; it
is a niece speculation.
The eross.ext 111 l i l talon of the witness was continued until
a quarter to four o'clock, when the Court again adjourned.

[The witnesses were examined and cross-examined at
great length each day, but our space precludes us from
giving inure than the foregoing outline.]