The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1855-08-28 00:00:00

which the Chamber laid down for itself when established.
The chairman then rapidly sketched the proceedings of the
chamber, undertaken in concert with other similar bodies, to
obtain this end. The general result had been very much to
simplify the proceedings of commercial law, and to introdue to
a certain extent some economy of expenditure and time. Still,
the root of the evil had not yet been touched. He was sorry
to see there was an impression abroad, especially amongst the
legal profession, that that chamber was hostile to it, and that
it would arrogate to itself the duties of that profession. That
was a mistake. Nothing could be further from their object.
(Hear, hear.) So far from their efforts having tended to lower
it, in his (the chairman's) opinion, the legal profession now
stood much higher than it ever did before. With respect to
the bar of England, who of them did not feel proud of its
position in the eyes of the world ? Who of them had not
found, amongst the members of the legal profession, the wisest
counsellor, the warmest friend, in the hour of tribulation and
peril—aye, even in the hour of death ? (Hear, hear.) Their
anxiety was simply, to use a phrase becoming very popular, to
see " the right man in the right place" in the administration
of commercial law, and one of those measure he had referred
to was one by which they could have the full advantage of
the legal profession at the least expense of time and money
The chairman then referred to what he termed " the means of
administering justice by itinerant courts," and maintained
that the progress of the town demanded that we should have
permanent local courts for commercial decisions,also suggesting
the desirableness of the chamber taking the matter up. The
next topic touched upon was the character of the surveys
made upon cargoes of damaged goods 'arriving at this port.
The surveyors, he thought, were not in their right position ;
for if they were to be heard in a court of law, they would
only be allowed to give their opinions as witnesses, while the
practice here had constituted them judges as well as wit-
nesses. The law only allowed them to give a certificate
generally, that the damage was owing to bad stowage, with-
out allowing them to state the circumstances which might
influence such stowage. He thought the present custom very
defective, and that it would be better to appoint a number of
gentlemen to give decisions after hearing evidence, instead of,
as at present,•where they merely had the bare opinion of the
surveyor, given frequently from memory or very imperfect
memoranda taken at the time of the survey. (Hear, hear.)
At the same time he could not use a word of disparagement
against the persons who filled the office of surveyor here, but
he must observe generally that they were, when appointed,
men past the middle stage of life, and when any new trade
arose, or a new species of goods were imported, their ideas
were found old-fashioned, and they had to learn their trade
over again, as it were. (Hear, hear.) The chairman then
moved the adoption of the report.
Mr. T. B. HonspALL, M.P., said he had great pleasure in
seconding the motion for the adoption of the report. There
were one or two parts of it to 'which he might naturally be
expected to refer. First, as 'to the reference which it made to
the law affecting bills of lading. The gentlemen present would
probably be aware that, under the old law, as it stood previous
to the last session of Parliament, the bill of lading, though it
carried the right to property to which it referred, yet the party
holding it had no right to recover against the owners or captain
of the vessel, foreign vessels especially, for any damage which
might be done to the produce on board the vessel, or for any
short delivery. It was considered desirable that that should be
altered. A deputation on the subject was sent up to London,
by the American Chamber of Commerce. He (Mr. Horsfall)
had the honour of accompanying them to wait upon the
President of the Ward of Trade, who said that the govern-
ment were not willing to propose such a bill, but would not
oppose it, if brought forward by the members for the borough.
Accordingly, a bill was drawn up and entrusted to Mr.
Baring, Mr. 'Wm. Brown, Mr. Cairns (of Belfast) and himself.
This bill provided that the holder of the bill of lading had a
right to recover the value of the property in ease of damage
or short delivery. That was the law as it now stood. (Hear,
hear.) The promoters of the bill were anxious to carry it a
little further, and they wished that power should be given
under the bill to detain any foreign vessel until the claim for
damage er short delivery had been settled. To that Mr.
Bouverie, the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, objected,
and considerable discussion took place in the house upon it.
It was -a question which did not appear to be generally well
understood in the house ; but Mr- Cairns, to whom they were
so much indebted for his exertions in reforming commercial
law, thought it better to take the sense of the house upon
the subject. They divided, and were in a minority of
eighteen ; but on looking over the 'list which composed
the majority, they found there were eighteen members of the
government, and two honourable members who had intended to
vote with them, but by some mistake voted against them.
(Laughter.) It so happened that this bill did not come on
until very late, until after the Scottish Education Bill. It was
mot a very interesting bill to manymembers—but perhaps he
ought not to betray the secrets of parliament. ( Go on.")
Well, he was sorry to say that, during the discussion many
of the members of the House of Commons were asleep
(laughter), and those two members, who were friendly
to the bill yet voted against it, always told him that
when they awoke and went into the lobby they thought
that they were voting upon the Scottish Education
Bill. (Laughter.) He (Mr. Horsfall) mentioned these
little things, to show that there really was not such a
majority against the bill as might appear. However, the bill
as now passed was much better than the law as it stood
before. (Hear, hear.) The next subject was that of dock
extension. (Hear, hear.) He weed not tell them that the
parliamentary committee devoted every attention to the-sub-
ject, and that if they had not arrived at conclusions satisfac-
tory to everybody., it was not from a want of desire to do
justice to everybody. On his (Mr. Horsfall s) part, he-rejoiced
at the purchase of the Birkenhead property, because he
believed that it would do away with much jealousy and ill-
feeling that had existed on' both sides of the Mersey, and benefit
the whole commerce of the port. With regard to the subject of pos-
tal extension, he must acknowledge the great courtesy always
shown by the late Postmaster-general, and he rejoiced ex-
ceedingly at the appointment of Lord Canning to the Gover-
nor-Generalship of India, because he believed he would bring
the same urbanity and business:capacity to bear upon his ad-
ministration, as he had brought 'to bear upon the post-office
department. With the address to Mr. Arnaud he entirely
concurred, and hoped his successor would follow his steps—that
while looking with a jealous eye-to the interests of the reve-
nue, he would watch also and promote the commercial interests
of the port. (Hear, hear.) Amongst other things which he
might with advantage endeavour to get altered was the low-
ness of salaries paid to revenue-officers, who were. often placed
in exceedingly tempting and dangerous positions. He (Mr.
Horsfall) had been called upon to present many petitions on the
subject, and they must see that-these persons weretoo ill paid,
many of them worse than similarly classed persons in their
own private employ. He thought this was a fit subject for
government to take up. What was the result-of the post-
office application? Lord Canning sent down a commission to
Liverpool to inquire upon the spot, and-the result was not
only satisfactory to that establishment, but also to the com-
mercial community. (Hear, hear.) Regardingtheilimited lia-
bility and alterations of partnership bills, he must confess that
considerable difficulty existed in speaking upon this subject,
on account of the differences of opinion that existed in Liver-
pool on the point. He could only say that, as one of the re-
presentatives of Liverpool, he sent copies of each of those bills
to the various chambers and commercial associations of this
port. He only received an answer from the council. of that
chamber, an answer which would probably be --familtar to all
in that room. Mr. Horsfall then read the followingextracts
from the communication referred to :
"The preamble of these bills is so brief, and the•clauses so few,
as to give the impression of their being intended to serve the
purpose of an outline to guide legislative deliberations, rather
than to be the actual statutes themselves. * * Many
defects of the law of partnership hare been pointed out by the
Chamber, and brought, at various times, under the notice of the
authorities, for which no remedy is provided by either of these
bills, such as inability of partnerships to sue and to be sued in
the name of the firm, the disability of partners to sue each other
in the Common Law Courts, and the absence of some more sum-
mary means of dissolving partnerships than the tedious and
expensive process in Chancery. Considering the important
changes these two bills are calculated to effect in the law and
practice of partnershia, it will be much to be lamented should the
opportunity be lost of remedying these defects, respecting.which
all parties are agreed, :whatever may be their opinions on the
question of limited liability."
So entirely did he (Mr. Horsfall) concur in these Observations,
so convinced was he of the defective character of these
two bills, that he felt it his duty to give notice that they
should be referred to a -select committee, and he communi-
cated to the chairman (Mr. Heath) his intention. He did not
receive any official answer to that, but he did neceße a
letter from a friend, a member of that chamber, whose opi-
niontmsouiggaghnetsottedhiter
nthosaet
st
sipoionfstopohfenpo(a rhi
a.
ei
nHeo
ntr lelrs)ant
ipohrnee s so(exfdrrt.his notice,
always had weight with him, and he (the friend)
bills
l'Hes:)
rs
consented to withdraw his notice of motion. He confessed
himself that he was one of those who believed the principle of
limited liability should be, •to some extent, adopted. (Hear,
hear.) That. despotic power of the board of trade should be

•done away with. -For instanoe, the board had liberty to grant
half a dozen gentlemen a 11ssater of limited liability, and to

another half dozen it could refuse it. (Hear, hear.) He
thought such a despotic privilege ought to be done away
with. (Hear, hear.) He once asked the secretary of the
board what regulation there was observed in refusing such
privileges. Ile replied jocularly, h` Well, Mr. Horsfall, there
is no actual regulation, unless it is tradition." (Laughter.)
He (Mr. Horsfall) could only say, if this community
would ,exprers to him what their wishes were, it would be
his anxious desire to carry them out. (Hear, hear.) Although
suffering from great indisposition, he felt it his duty to go
down to the house and vote for the second reading of the
Limited Liability Bill. (Hear, hear.) That bill was now the
law of the land, but he did not think the amendments upon it
passed in the Lords were any improvement. (Hear, hear.)
He did not see why twenty-five gentlemen should be neces-
sary to form a joint-stock company any more than five,—
(hear, hear)—which was one of the amended clauses intro-
duced, he believed, by Lord Grey. Knowing the importance
of the changes about to be introduced, he (Mr. Horsfall) had
ventured to suggest to her Majesty's government whether it
would not be advisable that the bill of Limited Liability
should pass that session, and that the Law of Partnership
Bill should be allowed to stand over. He did not at all
presume to say that it was through his suggestion that they
had withdrawn the Latter bill„but it would assuredlyeome on for
discussion early in the next session of parliament, and the
community ought to place their members in the fullest pos-
session of their wishes upon this point. (Hear, hear.) Mr.
Horsfall next referred to two letters which he had received

on the subject of the restrictions imposed by the Privy
Council upon the export of iron. He knew that, whatever the
opinions of the people of Liverpool were, originally, as to the
war, they were willing to submit to any necessary taxes or
necessary restrictions, but he also knew that they were not
willing to submit to any unnecessary restrictions. (Hear,
_

,
hear.) He knew that Russia was an iron-producing country,
and did not need to import iron; and. the restriction im-
posed was most injurious to the iron trade of this country,
and at the same time inflicted not the slightest injury on
Russia, (Hear, hear.) Those connected with the iron trade

knew full'well that Germany, Belgium, and Holland had been

some of our best customers, but from the exportation being
now restricted, they were opening new furnaces iu those coun-
tries to supply themselves. He (Mr. Horsfall) was requested
to form one of the deputation to Lord Palmerston_ upon the

subject. There were gentlemen from Scotland, Yorkshire,
Liverpool, and Manchester. They were received with the
usual courtesy by the noble lord, and told that the matter
would receive the greatest consideration from government.
(Laughter.) They had heard nothing more, though that was
six weeks ago, but they found that the restriction, instead of
being lessened, had become more stringent. (Laughter.) In
conclusion, Mr. Horsfall seconded the adoption of the report,
and sat down amid loud applause.
The effAIRMAW remarked that within his own knowledge
Russia was a country importing iron from England, such as
boiler-plates, ke. With respect to the relief sought for by
the Liverpool exporters, they had, with considerable discre-
tion, limited themselvea to that portion of the trade which
was carried over long sea distances, such as to the East Indies,
Agetrolial South America, and tile United Stem The' did