The Stourbridge Observer, Cradley Heath, Halesowen & District Chronicle.
Stourbridge, West Midlands, England, 1879-04-05 00:00:00

THE MURDER AT RICHMOND.

EXTRAORDINARY STA.TEMENT BY THE

FEMALE PRISONER,
On Monkday afternoon, at the Richmond Petty
Sessions, Katherine Webster, alias Webb, alias
Shannon, alias Lawless, alias 'Lawler, was charged
with the wilful murder of her mistress, Mrs. Julia
Martha Thomas, of 2, Vine-cottages, Park-road,
Richmond, on or about the 2nd of March, and with
robbing the executors of plate and other articles.
John Church, beerahop keeper, of Hammersmith, was
also charged with the murder of Mrs. Thomas, and as
assisting in the robbery of plate and furniture, the
property of the executors of Mrs. Thomas.

_
All the available roam at the back of the bench was
crowded with gentlemen, only a few ladies being pre-
sent, and the sp Ace reserved for the public at large
was filled to ovetflowing by an anxious throng of per-
sons—the number of women present being quite
equal to if Lot greater than that of the men. Ihe
doors both of tha court-house and the police-station had
been beset during the whole morning by an excited and
somewhat noisy crowd of idlers. On being placed in the
dock Webster was very pale, and looked anxious, though
she did not allow any other sign of emotion torescape her.
She was dressed in a gray silk hat trimmed with
brown velvet and feathers, a brown boa round her
neck, a black cloth jacket trimmed with imitation
fur, and a mauve stuff dress, while over her arm she
carried an ordinary grey waterproof. Church main-
tained almost the same composure as his fellow.
prisoner. During the reading of the statement of the
female prisoner, he cast several glances at her, like
unto indignant surprise. He is a short and some-
what florid man, with red beard and moustaches, and
was dressed in a light tweed suit.

Mr. Pollard, the solicitor for the Treasury, conducted the
prosecution ; Mr. F O'Brien, solicitor, London, appeared for
the female prisoner; and -Church was represented by Mr.
Claydon, solicitor, Bammersmith.—We take the following
report of the proceedings from The Times:—

It was decided to call the woman by the name of " Web-
ster " throughout. Mr. Pollard, in his opening statement,
ap-dogized for the absence of Mr. Poland, who, he said,
would have been present but for an engwzement of an im-
portant character elsewhere, and wou'd prosecute on a
subsequent occasion. Mr. Pollard then detailed the in-
formation at present possessed by the police Towards
the end of January or the beginning of February Webster
entered the service of Mrs Thomas as servant. Webster
had an illegitimate child, a boy, whom she left, when she
went into service, in Eocies-row, Richmond. She remnined
in service for some little time, and no particular attention
was attracted to her conduct until about the let or 2nd
of Starch, when the neighbours missed Mrs. Thomas, who
from that time to the present had never been seen.
On the 4th of March Webster went to the house of
a person named Porter, at Hammersmith, and residing
within two or three doors of the prisoner Church. She carried
a black bag with her, and she asked Porter, whom she had
known for some four or five years, to assist her in carrying
it. Porter and his son, a boy, accompanied Webster to a beer-
shop in the Hammersmith-bridge-road, and she requested
them to remain there while she went on to the bridge to
meet a friend. After being absent for some time she re-
turned without the bag. She stated that she had met her
friend on the bridge and that it was "all right." On her
return she asked to be allowed to take Porter's son to 2,
Vine-cottages, Richmond, the residence of Mrs. Thomas,
promising to send him home that night; and to this Porter
assented. The son accompanied her to the house in Rich-
mond, and while he was waiting there the prisoner went
upstairs and brought down a box of a peculiar description
—a bonnet box of a foreign manufacture; and this peculiarity
induced young Porter to notice it. She asked him to assist in
carrying this box to Richmond-bridge, and when about
the centre of the bridge she told the boy to walk on
a little way. This was about eleven o'clock at night, and
as it was dark the boy did not walk any great distance
away from her. He had, however, not gone many yards
before he heard a splash in the water. A tall gentleman
passed at the time: at present Mr. Pollard could not
say who that gentleman was, but he hoped to be able to
produce him on another occasion. The prisoner in a few
minutes rejoined the boy, and, telling him that it was too
late to send him home that night, told him te return with
her and sleep at the house. On the sth or 6,h of March a
box was found in the Thames, and was identified by the
boy Porter as that which he assisted Webster to carry.
When the box was opened it was found to contain remains
of a human body. On the 18th of March Porter and
Church went to 2, Vine-cott iges, with a van for the
alleged purpose of purchasing the furniture, and no doubt
the things would have been removed had not Mrs.
Ives, a neighbour, seeing Webster carrying things out
of the hou.e, asked her by whose authority she was
doing so, and the consequence was that the prisoners were
deterred from taking away the goods from the house.
Church then_ left the premises. Webster, finding that
something had occurred to interfere with their pro-
ceedings, suddenly left the place, and was not .seen
again until she was in custody. Late on the night of the
18th of March she hired a cab and drove to Itose-gardens,
Hammersmith, to Porter's house, where some four or live
days previously she had left her little boy. She took her
son and a black bag and drove to Hammersmith Railway
Station, where she took tickets for King's Cross. The
police were set to work, and by means of a photograph
and a letter in the pocket of a dress left in the house, giving
the address of her friends in Ireland, the authorities were
enab'ed to trace her. they arrested her near Erinlscorthy,
in Ireland, and in the course of her coming across from
Ireland she made statements at various times, which were
subsequently reduced to writing by Inspector Dowdell, and
were read over by him to the prisoner Webster in the
presence of Church, who came to the police-station on the
Sunday. While the statement was being read over Webster
made various alterations, and it was in consequence of what
she said that Church was charged: Mr. Pollard proposed to
read the statement made by the prisoner Webster.

Mr. Claydon objected to this course, saying that the state-
ment must be proved in the ordinary way, and
The Bench concurring in this view,
Mr. Pollard said he would call the officer, who would
give his evidence.

Inspector John Dowdell, of the Scotland-yard police,
was then called, and said,—l proceeded to Ireland on
Wednesday last, and on Friday joined Inspector Jones,
who had arrived by another route in Dublin. We pro-
ceeded to the county of Wexford, and at Euniscorthy we
found the prisoner Webster in the custody of William'
T 1,1 thsa
that she would be charged with wilfully murdering her
mistress, Mrs. Thomas, who resided at 2, Vine-cottages,
Park-road, Richmond, on or about the 2nd of March. I told
her she would be further charged with stealing from the same
house furniture and other property belonging to her mistress.
She made no reply to the charg2. She was then taken before
the magistrate, Mr. Robinson, and after we had established
her identity he made out tine warrant for her committal
here. We left on Saturday, after going 14 miles in the coun-
try to search the house where she had lived, and came
here. We found a box with clothes, and in the box were a
photograph of the prisoner Church and one of his ad-
dress cards. We arrived at Richmond about eleven o'clock
on Sunday. Daring she journey from EnniscOrthy to Dublin,
the flrat part of the journey to England, the pri-
soner asked me a question; and she made a statement
coming across on the boat At various times darinfr the
journey to Richmond she made statements to me Inspec-
tor Jones reduced the statements to writing at my dictation,
with various alterations made at the request of the prisoner
Webster. I saw the prisoner Church after that statement
had been written out. It was read over, not by me, but by
Inspector Jones, to both prisoners. While it was being read
the prisoner Webster said she wished to make an addition,
and made some alterations and an addition. She then said
that the statement as completed was quite true. Church was
at once taken into custody and charged. I did not hear his
reply to the charge.

Mr. Pollard read the following u the result of the state-
ments the prisoner had made to the witness :

"Richmond!Pollee Station, 30th March, 1879.

_
"Katherine Webster to Inspector John Dowdell, C. I.
Department, on the way from Eaniscorthy to London, and
thence to Richmond, on the 29th and 30th inst.—The prisoner,
after leaving Enniscorthy, said,—• Is there any other person
In custody for the murder?' I said I could not answer that
question. She said,—' There ought to be; the innocent
should not suffer for the guilty.' On the passage in the
steam-packet, between Kingstown and Holyhead, she
said, What would you advise me to do in the matter,
as I intend to speak the truth 2 I have known John
Church for nearly seven years. I first got acquainted
with him when I was living two or three doors from
him, at Porter's. He used to take me out to London
and to various publichousea. I met him again some months
ago, and he came to my mistress a house one night the worse
for drink. After some time I told him he would have to go,
as I expected my mistress home from church. She came
home and knocked at the door and I let her in. Church was
in the back room at the time. My mistress went into the
front room and said, 'Kate, don't you think lam very late?'
I said, 'No, as I have company.' He (Church) had previously
told 1316 to say that he was my brother. Mrs. Thomas said,
'Who have you got here ? and rsaid, 'My brother, who has
come to see me.' At this time he was getting sober. Mrs.
Thomas went into the back room and spoke to him and asked
him to come into the front room by the fire, and she asked him
if he would wish to remain all night. He said, 'No, I must not
stay out all night,' and, turning round to me, said, 'You
know I must. not stay out all night.' I replied, *No.'
Shortly after that he left. A few days afterwards he called
again, and during the conversation I told him the mistress
had no money in the house. He said, 'Could we not put
the old woman out of the way ?' I said, 'What do you
mean?' He replied, 'Oh, poison her.' I said, 'You must
do that yourself. 111 have nothing to do with that.' Church
said, 'We could have her things and go off to America
together, and enjoy it, as I am getting tired of my old
woman.' He left late in the evening, but came again on toe
Monday night, the 3rd of March, and had tea with Mrs.
Thomas. I waited upon them. After teal asked Mrs. Thomas
if I could go out to see my little boy, and she said, 'yes,
Kate, and you need not hurry back.' When I returned late
In the evening I noticed the light was turned down. I knocked
three times, and then Church opened the door, and I saw
Mrs. Thomas lying on the mats in the passage, struggling
and groaning. He said, 'Coma in.' I drew back on to
the steps, frightened to go in at this time. There was a
policeman standing on the opposite side of the road, a
tall, dark man. Church caught me by the arm, pulled
me in, and closed the door. I said, 'Whatever have you
done?' He said, ' Never you mind. I have done it for
her, and if you say a word about it I'll put this knife
into you up to the handle.' That was a carving knife
belonging to Mrs. Thomas. I felt very faint, and
when he said he would put the knife into me I said, 'No,
John, don't ; I won't tell.' Ile offered me what I thought
was a glass of water; I said, 'No, I am better now,'
thinking it was poison and that he was going to serve me
the same as Mrs. Thomas. Shortly afterwards we left the
house together, leaving Mrs. Thomas there,. and took a
cab. I had told him I could not stay in the house by
myself. We drove towards Church's house at Hammer-
smith. He saw me into Mrs. Porter's and I remained there
for the night. I got up early the next morning and went
into Church's house. Mrs. Church remarked that I was out
early. Church was there, and beckoned me to go up the
street. I went up, and he joined me shortly afterwards.
Ile said, 'I cannot get over to your house before one o'clock,
as I got into a row with my wife last night for being out '
so late again, and I must stay at home this morning to make
it up with her.' I said I should not go back to the house by
myself. He had the keys of the front and side doors, and
said he should be down by two o'clock. He asked me
what time I would be down. 1 told him I would not be
down there before night, and we agreed to meet at the
Richmond Hotel, over the bridge. I took the boy with
me, and as I passed the hotel I saw Church inside. I
asked the boy to go on a short distance and wait I Went
into the house (hotel) and spoke to Church, and he asked
me what I would have to drink. I had some whisky.
He then gave me the keys of the house and said I was to
go to thffhouse, take the boy with ore, and I should find a
box in the back roorp, which be had packed up, tied with cord.
The boy was to assist me to bring it away. We were not to
take a cab from the house, but if we passed one on the way to
the bridge we were to takeit. We did not meet one, so we
carried it to the bridge. The boy went away and Church ap-
peared. I said, What are you going to do with the box?' He
said, 'That is my business., There was a tall gentleman on the
opposite side of the bridge. Church said, 'Follow the boy.'
I did so, and heard a splash in the water. I joined the
boy Porter at the foot of the bridge carrying a carpet bag,
which we had also brought from the house, containing
books and meat. We went to the railway station and found
that the last train had gone. The boy asked a cabman what
he would take him home for and he said as. The boy having
only 25., and I no change, I said, 'You shall come home and
sleep with me.' We both slept in one room. On going down-
stairs in the kitchen I found the carpeting rolled up and the
table with a leaf let down, put against the cupboard. The
boards were wet as though tney had been washed, and there
was a fire and a large saucepan on it full of water, but I saw
no blood. About two days afterwards, as I was cleaning the
scullery, I saw some blood on the carving-knife A meat
saw usually hung by the fireside, bat on that day I found
it on a box in the scullery, quite clean. Since Mrs.
Thomas disappeared, Church and Porter and his boy have
been frequently at the house. Church directed me to
order meat as if it was for Mrs. Thomas. It was taken to
his house, cooked, and eaten there, likewise to Porter's.
He called Porter in to value the goods and furniture in the
hiouse, and safd to me, Pool Jpay him for the valuation
I'll pay him.' I payed xe'voral hills. We said, ' rever mind
TisYtha ; pay Mrs. Ms, tbo lamilatly, to keep /1 de