The Stourbridge Observer, Cradley Heath, Halesowen & District Chronicle.
Stourbridge, West Midlands, England, 1876-10-14 00:00:00

-.....,..wisainiimilaii=

MR. W. E. FORSTER, M.P., ON THE
EASTERN QUESTION.

On Saturday afternoon the Right Hon. W. E. For-
ster, ALP., addressed a meeting of his constituents in
St. George's-hall, Bradford. The hall which is capable
of accommodating 5,000 persons, was densely crowded.
Alderman Law presided, and introduced Mr. Forster,
who was received with prolonged cheering.—We give
the following extracts from the hon. gentleman's
speech :

Ladies and Gentlemen, I want first to explain that I hope
no one, either in Bradford or oat of it, will understand that
I think because I have taken a short journey in the East I
have any special right to address my countrymen or my con-
stituents upon this question. I certainly, finding myself at
Pesth, the capital of Hungary, and hearing of the meetings
here, had to choose between coming back to take my share
in them or going, on and seeing whether I could get a little
more information ; and I thought upon the whole I had
better take the latter course, although when I left England I
had no intention of doing so. I therefore went on to
Belgrade, and went through Roumania, and then on to
Constantinople for a few days. Now, it would be absurd
for any one to suppose that a few days' visit gives
any special right to speak upon this question, but I don't
thiek it diminiehes one's information. I saw eminent per-
sons, so far as I could, that were engaged in these matters
upon both sides. I heard all that I could bear in the short
srace of time, and I certainly feel that I don't know less
thin when I went out, and perhaps a little more.
Another remark before I enter into the real business of the
meeting. lam not going to make any attack upon her
Majesty's Government—(cheers)—but in not either attack-
ing the Foreign Office or the Prime Minister with regard
to their policy you must not consider that I therefore ap-
prove everything that has been said. (Renewed cheers.) I
must say this much, that what I heard while I was away
makes me wonder rather more than I did before at the
answers that were given by the Prime Minister to the
questions asked by use and by others upon Bulgarian
affairs; and I confess teat I was also somewhat surprised
at the speeches that have been made, especially by the Prime
Minister, since Parliament rose—(aear, hear)—and all the
Information that I have been able to obtain increases my
regret, and also my surprise, that the Government did
not cling more closely than they did until very lately to joint
action and co-operation in this most dial:alit matter among
all the six Christian Powers. (Cheers.) I must just say this
much, but I wish to say nothing farther with regard to the
past action of the Government at this time It may become my
duty and your duty to debate that on a future occasion, but
ree the present moment the immediate future is of such
Menge importance, and the actual position of the different
countries Is so important in guiding us to an opinion upon
the immediate future, that I will confine myself to that
matter, which is difficult enough to occupy us this after-
noon. And lam the more glad to do that because I must in
candour acknowledge that the last public expression of
opinion that has been made by any member of the Government
—the speech of Lord Carnarvon—le one to the tone of which
no man eau object, and which all who feel deeply in this
matter mu-at aamire and approve. (Cheers.) lam also very
glad to see Lord Derby's despatai this morning, though I
wish I had seen it several weeks ago. (Cheers) With regard
to the actual position of the different countries, I dare say
you will ask me, "Did you hear and see anything that would
lead you to suppose that in any way the opinion of the
country with regard to those Bulgarian atrocities, as they are
properly called, is to be modified? Is it possible that, alter
reading Mr. Baring's Report, there is anything to be said in
excuse or palliation, or has there been exaggeration ? " Well,
I will at once state that there is no exaggeration whatever,
and that has been the case from the beginning of this sad
story. One or two of the details that were first given to the
public by Mr. Pears, the correspondent of the Daily News,
to whom we owe so much—(applause)—may have been ques-
tioned. Ido not think that even the details have been dis-
proved, but the substantial accuracy of those statements
has been abundantly proved ; and if there has been a mistake
found in any detail, alas I there has been a discovery of other
details of other atrocities, far more than supplying any
mistake that intht possibly have at first occurred. Why,
we know very well that if any remarkable event occurs in
our own neighbourhood—if there be a fire in a village,
the account of that fire is exaggerated, and not
stated exactly as it occurred ; nevertheless, there was a
fire, and there were these atrocities. And I must
state with regard to the first informants, their accuracy in
their first descriptions was extracrdinery, and we must
lament the fact that the more we have examined into them
the worse they are found to be. (Hear.) lam not going
to dwell upon them. Ido not think it necessary to do so.
I believe the public are entirely convinced of their existence,
and that all that we have to deal with is the question,
what is it our duty to do to prevent their recurrence?
("Hear, hear," and applause.) I saw several gentlemen
who were what we may call " phlio-Turks." I dare say you
have heard that expression. I also saw members of the
Turkish Government—men for whom I confess I felt much
sympathy, for they were of the very few of those officials
In Turkey who are engaged in the reparation, I may almost
say the hopeless task of attempting to reform the Govern-
ment of that country and to have anything approaching to
good government. They naturally gave me what defence
or what palliation they could, but I have almost felt for
them 'while they were doing so, because the attempt at
defence was actually the greatest accusation. I will give
one instance. I will not mention the gentleman's name ;
I t woald not be fair to do so, but he was an official
holdisg a very responsible station in the Turkish Govern-
ment. Ile wanted to explain to me that the Central Govern-
ment had little or nothing to do with these murders and out-
rages, and he brought forward that special cafe of the
village of Batak, of which you have all heard, where at
least 3,040 people were mnrelered, after every kind of
outrage, out of 4,000. And his defence of the Central
Government was this—he said they knew nothing about it,
and not only the Central Government knew nothing about
it, but, although it was within a few hours' walk of Pailippo-
polls, the chief town in the district, although it was under the
Government of Phiiippopolle, although it was upon the
valley which runs from Philippopolis, yet this gentleman
declared to me that the Government of Philippopolis knew
nothing about the horrible outrages until days, if not weeks,
after they had occurred. Well, I told him in reply, "1 do
not dispute your statement, because I have heard it from
other sources, but I confess if I repeat it to any audience in
England, I shall hardly expect to be believed." (Cheers.)
But suppose It to be true, what does It show? It shows an,
absolute want of Government; of a centralizing Government
that chooses to have all the nominal authority vested in itself,
and yet does not fulfil any one of the functions of govern-
ment, because not only does it not prevent the greatest
outrages, but it does not even provide Reel with informa-
tion that the atrocities have happened. (Hear, hear.) But
when I heard that statement I could not help thinking of
what I sometimes hear in our own country, and a Parlia-
mentary illustration suggested itself to me. We have
heard of cases in which members of Parliament have been
accused of bribery, and in which they have succeeded and
get into their seats by the help of bribery; but they have
known nothing about the bribery. (Laughter and cheeks.)
Their ears have been absolutely closed. (Laughter) They
have escaped any consequences on petition, and the bribery,
though they had nothing to do with it, has been for them a
success. (A laugh.) Well, these terrible massacres in Bul-
garia would have been a success for the Turkish Govern-
ment if they had not only closed the ears of the offloials
at Constantinople, but if they had suoceeded in closing the
ears of European', and especially of Englishmen. (Ap-
plause.) They would have been a great success. I have
no doubt whatever that when the Servians began their war
they relied more than anything else upon the assistance of
Balgaria. (Hear, hear.) Ido not for a moment deny that
there was a conspiracy for revolt in Bulgaria, and that they
had grounds for hoping that they would be assisted. But
by this terrible way In which the insurrection was
stamped out redefines was made almost Impossible;
and I cannot but believe that those officials in Constantinople,
although it is quite true that the Government is conducted
In a manner which we should suppose hardly possible, yet
that they bad a very shrewd idea that what they had set on
foot would end in the most terrible suppression of any pos-
sibility of insurrection. The Prime Minister of &reels, M.
Beatles, told me himself—he said, "We have made a great
mistake. We were greatly misled. We expected Bulgaria
to rise, tut Bulgaria could not rise, such was the alarm
and such were the terror and fears of the inhabitants."
Now, this suppression of the Bulgarian insurrection has
astonished everybody, and astonished England, though, if
we had read Turkish history it ought not to have astonished
us. (Hear, hear.) Dins been the usual manner in which
the nuke have put down insurrection, It was what
happened in Greece. The massacre of &los was what
freed Greece more than any other fact ; and if you
look back from the time when the Turks lint came to
Europe, when they first conquered Constantinople, you will
see that it has been in this manner that they have always—l
may say always—put down rebellions. I see that Lord Derby,
In his dispatch to-day, demands compensation for the victims,
demands punishment on the offenders, and demands that
steps shall be taken to prevent a recurrence. (Cheers.) But
I very much doubt, netwithstanding that despatch, whether
any real compensation will be given to the victims, whether
there will he any real punishment to the chief offenders, and,
what is of far more importance, I very much doubt whether
there will be that disarming of the Turkish population which
Is absolutely necessary in order to prevent a continuance of
these outrages. (Cheers.) They have not ceased. They do not
occur upon the great scale that they did in the month of
May. We do not hear of villages being destroyed; but
over and over again while I was there I heard of cases of
outrage upon men and wlemen and robbery of propearntyd.
°coaxing day after day, and I think it was generally
admitted both by the Turks and by Christians that so
long as these irregular volunteers, these Baahi-Bazenks re-
main armed, these outrages must be expected;
such is the present position of the 'Turkish Govern-
ment that their own friends were compelled to acknowledge
that it would be the most difficult task possible to disarm
these men.
. ......... . . .
What about Berrie, you will ask? What about the little
State that is waging this war with this great Empire? Well,
you know what Lord Beaconsfield said of that war. He said
In his late speech, "Ills an outrageous and wicked war, for
of all the wars that ever were waged, there never was a war
less justifiable than the war made by Servia against the
I am not prepared to say that Servia
oughtl'or te.
"to(Hhisasves* )
have this war but I do say, and I
would appeal to Lord Beaconsfield himself whether
that h
t tisensoe h
t tavreere a
y forts- Serviasidedet id not la
statement. Ldeetcusre war juswt
remem-
beruntil
after the insurrection had been going on for months upon
its borders in Bosnia and Herzegovina until its existence
and is peace had been endangered for months by
the insurrection. It did not declare war until these
Bulgarian massacres had occurred and its people had been
excited—l may say inflamed—by the knowledge of what had
occurred and- it did not declare war until Turkey, by tho
refuse' of the Berlin Memorandum, had, at any rate, sus-
pended the attempt which Servia np to that time had
thought was made by the European powers to settle the
question. I think those three facts ought to be recollected,
and that those who condemn Servia in such unmeasured'
terms should at least consider whether there are not many;
populations, and many members of our own population,
that would bare acted as the Servian Ministers and the
Sorvian people acted. ("Hear, hear," and applause.) I.
shall be asked, "After all, is the war popular in Servia ?"'
This is an exceedingly difficult question to answer. I •
should wish to be perfectly candid and not one-sided in my
statements. The whole population of Servia—the whole
malebftbterbwitht
0, o.
them pdanntl
yba teri ooeanpvi
tit
vfe,te.flirycoge.he.ltdtitinntllgmaelay.
dgg eiodn—ui
bhl
tti ahk vee ed
withathte
whole
nave
neocrafay belleda sogprpopulation
paut
utpwl
ontlroti
drio.
forced into the as
my, severe measures veryand
thh (cruel
thtaev
jeasbtetefyn
lan gireeracithdgetahle
soef
having wounded themselves, hurt
men to fight, and we have the ugly
order to escape fighting. Well, all thtehs
facts of several men
eeirtaettrsigmgeardefimngeerr,eriny
sorrowlal, for the war made one very
counted
whether the
Governmentthey began
ho.if
tS
war,erviabhu at delstueffir catleinltlas
nt the cost when
foanveo
urcooe:):llJdopngvpienaceenetdo thatthl that
ietewoceo
vneoryt-
servia was polled through at this mom
mwintchhstdaneudibntgita,ilbettheetseenfyacrtsa,teb.ehino
country without most earnestly desiring
we went down the Danube, it was just after the success
of the Turks before Alexinatz, and we heard of the
Army being in the fertile Morava Valley; we heard of
the hundreds and thousands of fugitive men, womtn, and
children who had fled from the villages that the Turkish
army were burning, and I am sure most earnestly did
dubs to hear of an armistice when I beard of this army

,TA

.W` KOUIIO.I T2Li

coming up this valley with its cloud of six thousand Bashi-
Bazonks and Circassian' hanging upon its skirts. But I need
not have been very much alarmed for the safety of these
Servians. My friend Colonel Muir, who I hope will soon give
the public the benefit of his experience, had been for some
two or three weeks in Sortie. Be had travelled amco get
those villages, and by his description the civilization of
those villages is much advanced—very much advanced—as
compared with their Turkish neighbours. &hoots are scat-
tered over the country • they had even passed a compulsory
school law. (Laughter) They were making great progress
in civilbsetion. and it was sad and sorrowful indeed
to find all this was stopped by war waged
old middle-aged principles of ferocity. But, Ine
peat, I was more alarmed for them than it was
necessary to be • because—and this hot we ought to bear in
mind—the Tarlis when they win a battle seem to be utterly,
unable to mace use of their victory We expected when we.
went down the Danube that they should be la some of the
fortresses, if net immediately before Belgrade. When we got
down to Constantinople one of the surgeons who went
with Colonel Leyd-Lindsay—a most able and energe,
man—gave me this experience. Be was at the front of the
Servian line at the Battle of Alexinatz on the Ist of Sep.
tember. Lie saw what he supposed was their total defeat,
altheugh it is believed now that that defeat was rather,
exaggerated in the accounts which were given of it. About
a fortnight afterwards he had gone round to dispose of his
stores to the Turkish Army, and got to the Turkish front, and
in this fortnight these conquerors bad managed to ad--
vance only, two miles. ,Why do I say .this,?. Because ir
forming an opinion on this matter we must consider
actual post, ion of the different forces in action. I den
know whether any still hold the opinion that Lord Beacons-
field held at the time he made his speech, but it there is it is
certainly not the correct one (cheers.) In that speech I see
he says, "The moment that Her Majesty's Government ascer-
tained that Servie was beaten and exhausted, and hi a state
of such despair, we communicated," and so and so. "Turkey
was triumphant, and she had crnshed these ungrateful sub-
jects of the Suzerain." The fact was they were not crushed
and not defeated, and up to this time it is very much a drawn
battle. (Cheers.) There is no doubt that the Turkish soldiers
are more drilled, and, upon the whole, fight better than the
Servian soldiers. (A Voice.—" No. Russian." Cheers.) I
will speak about Russia afterwards. And one cannot
mention Turkish soldiers without some remark of admira-
tion. It would be difficult, from all accounts to find
men who fight more bravely, and who have in many
respects higher qualities—more obedient, more patient,
and also more sober. I will say this for the Turks, that,
whether you go into the Army or into the streets of Con-
etantincple, you will see, I am sorry to say more drunken-
ness in a village in Yorkshire than you will see in the whole
city of Stamboul, and I am afraid you will see more
drunkenness in a small regiment of British soldiers than
you would see in a Turkish Army. (Cheers.) We must
allow in candour these virtues to the Turks. At the same
time I regret to say that it was clearly proved that some of
the atrocities committed in Bulgaria were committed by
the regular soldiers. I believe it was generally supposed
that it was by the Arab soldiers, and I must also add
this—that in every case, so for as I could learn, the
officers were much more to blame than the men. But
when we consider the question of the chances of the war
between Sends and Turkey we must take the facts as we
find them. We find the Turks good soldiers, but with
Generals who are utterly unable to make use of their
victory. We find them also badly supplied with stores.
They are much worse fed than the Servians, and therefore
we have to deal with this fact, that it no foreign Power
interferes Sends can keep the Turks at by until the
winter sets in, which means that they can keep the war
on till Spring. A gentleman said, "There are the Russian."
There are very many Russian volunteers. They have
Increased much more within the last week or two. I saw
them as I went down the Danube, and there was then some
appearance of concealment about it. They generally went
with the mark of the Red Cross, and I saw them with the
Red Cross on the steamer one day, and in the Servlan
uniform the next. (Laughter.) But I don't for a
moment justify Russia in allowing these volunteers to go in
such large numbers. (Applause.) I think it is a kind of as-
sistance given by one nation to another—given by a professed
neutral Power to a belligerent, which is an exceedingly bed
precedent as regards international warfare, at which other
Powers have a right to protest. (Hear, hear.) But take the
whole ef these Russians into account and put them at the
very highest possible number at which they have been esti-
mated—when I went down the Danube I don't think there
were 6000; when I came back there might be 15,000; and it is
a signs of very great weakness on the part of the Turks
that even with this reinforcement of 15,000 men the Ser-
vians are able to defy the Turkish. Now, tbal brings
us to the position of Russia, and here I want you to bear in
mind that we have two Russias to deal with. We have the
Russian Government and the Russian people, and it would
be the greatest possible mistake to forget that fact. lam no
especial friend of the Russian principles of government.
(Hear, hear.) In this hall we have protested against them,
and I dare say we shall protest again. I have no wish to
see the despotic rule of the Czar increased over other coun-
tries. (Hear, hurt . . . When I was at Bucharest, I was told
by men who seemed to know what they were talking about,
that the actual subscription in money in Russia was a
million sterling of our pounds. (Cheers) Well, Russia is
not a rich country, and that shows a very strong feeling. I
heard of a regiment giving up four days' pay and men
giving half their income in such a matter. I only mention
this. I am not justifying it, lam not condemning it. I am.
only mentioning it as a fact that we have to take into ac-
count. I believe this enthusiasm to exist, and I think it is
very reasonable it should exist; and I further think, if we
were in the position of the Russians, with men of our own
language, or almost our own language, of our own race, and
of our own creed, subjected by a race with whom we had
been for centuries more or less upon terms of enmity—l
believe that we should have the same feelings as have the
Russians. (Cheers.) This is a fact with which diplomatists
and politicians have to deal, and it is not enough to say to
the Czar, "You must stop this proceeding.' You must
admit that it is not altogether easy for him to do so
I believe that the Emperor of Russia is himself in a very
difficult position. A gentleman told me that he had heard
a Russian, of somewhat high station, say, "This is a very
serious matter for our Government. This movement on
behalf of Benda is the first time that the people of Russia
have had a policy distinct from the Government of
Russia, and, what is more, contrary to what they
know to be the personal wish of their Emperor."
Tots is thought to be a very serious fact in a
despotic country like Russia. (Rear,hear.) . . . .
In the course of his speech Mr. Forster said that if
no intervention took place he does not despair of the
Porte yet accepting the proposals of the Powers; but
he believes that absolute autonomy of the provinces
must he preceded and accompanied by foreign occu-
pation. He considered Lord Derby's proposal of local
self-government secured by a treaty right to the
Powers to interfere the wisest proposal that could be
made, and he heartily approved the Foreign Secre-
tary's disposition to cling to the principle of joint
action of the six Christian Powers.—Mr, Forster thus
concluded his speech :
We certainly do not look upon what happens in Turkey in
Europe as we would in other foreign countries, because we
have had much to do with preserving the Burks in Europe;
therefore, our conscience has been appealed to, and I am de-
lighted it gives me hope for the future of England that the
appeal has been responded to by the people of England. If
we had left it merely to the politicians, it we had left it
merely to the frequenters of the London clubs, there would
have been no response to that appeal. But there has been it
response by the people, and this meeting increases my con-
viction that this is one of those causes which the British
people have taken to heart, and that they have come to the
conviction that this is a matter in which the fulfilment of
Eogland's duty is the beat protection of English interests.
)Loud cheers.)

-, the 1
I don't I