The Dorset County Express and Agricultural Gazette.
Dorchester, Dorset, England, 1860-04-03 00:00:00

WEDNESDAY.

After the presentation of • vast number of petitions
on the subject,
Sir J. TKILLAWNT moved the order of the day, that the
House do reiolve itself into • Committee upoli the
Church-rate's' Abolition Bill.

Mr. Pacer. urged various objections to the measure,
which he considered to lie unnecessarily large, and, with
referenee to the amount of public opinion in favour of it,
he observed that, in mine of the most populous towns
and boroughs whence petitions had been presented upon
this question, which he contended was • purely religious
one, upwards of one half of the inhabitants attended no
place of worship whatcyrr.
Mr. tit:mixt:aye moved, as an amendment, a rerolu-
tion,—the name he had brought forward last year,—that
"this House will, to- 1111 l rrow, resolve itself into a Com-
mittee to consider the propriety of establishing, in lien
of church-rates, thenceforth to he abolished, a charge on
all hereditament* in respect of the occupancy of which
church-rates have been paid within the last seven years,
' to be levied with the country rate at a uniform rate of
poundage, the occupier being entitled to deduct the
amount of the charge levied on his occupation." fie in-
sisted that Church-rates were a charge upon isroperty,
and by proposing to assess owners instead of occupiers
lie had, he said, followed a principle adopts:a by the
House of Lords.
The amendment was seconded by Mr. CROSS, who ex-
plained the reason why he did so, having voted against
the resolution last year, and discussed the other bubeti-
totes suggested for church-rates.
Mr. iiillll4llAN observed that the Home had admitted
that • settkinent of this question was desirable, and that
it could only be effected by • Government measure;
why, then, lie Asked, aholild it be allowed to go into the
hands of a private member' While some regarded this
as a question of principle, others looked upon it as
rather a political clap trap. The time, however, had
c 1111 l e when some settlement ought to be made, and he
thought Sir J. 'rrelawny ought to appeal to the Govern-
ment to bring in a measure for that purpose, it b. ing a
loss of time to leave the matter in the hands of a private
member. . .

Sir.!. TRELAWNY said he bad from the beginning
urged the Government to deal with this question, but
their measures would not have settled the question, any
inure than Mr Newdegate's proposition, his objections
to which lie stated.
The amendment was supported by Mr. HENLEY, and
opposed by Lord HENLEY, who said lie opposed the
proposal now, As lie hal done last year, because he con-
sidered it • bad one, total abolition being, in his
opinion, the only satisfactory iumle of settling the ques-
tion.
Mr. PtimPrit, although lie thought Mr. Newdegate's
plan was liable to some objections, in the absence of any
other plan for a substitute for church-rates, should, he
said, vote fur the amendment. . .

Sir 31. PETO sail nothing would satisfy Dissenters
but the unconditional and absolute repeal of an impost
which, being a perronal rate, affected their con.
sc paces._ . . . .

Mr. WATLINGToN admitted that a plea of a conscien-
tious grievance was a strong one ; but this Bill would,
he said, give a relief and an advantage to the few by in-
dicting an injustice upon the niany. He could not, how-
ever, support the amendment.
Mr. EVAN 8, though mit wedded to any particular men- ,
sure, supported the Bill, desiring that this vexatious and
annoying question, which kept alive an agitation in-
jurious to the country, should be settled.
Lord J. MANN ims said, retaining all his objections to
the principle and details of the Bill, be must myose,
though reluctantly, the amendment, considering that,
as that House had assented to the principle of the Bill,
it would be better that it should be vent up to the !louse
of birds so they found it. Ile should prefer the Bill in
its naked simplicity to taking it with the amendment
proposed by Sir (:. GREY, to auteditute pew-rents
fur church-rates, which would affect the rights of the
poor.
Sir G. Geer said he should be prepared in the Com-
mittee to demonstrate to Lont J. Manners that his fears
in relation to his proposal were unfounded.
Mr. M mum denied that church-rates were, an alleged
by Mr. Newilegate, a etotzge upon property, in the pro-
per sense of the term, and the amendment promaied to
convert this rate into a fixed charge upon land, without
regard to the scruples of Dissenters,—a proposal which
could never settle the pies .He thought the ('hurch
would sustain no injury by the abolition of church-rates,
&nil by leaving it free action.
. Mr. A. Mtht.s supporksl the amendment, observing
that it did not lie upon the friends of the Church to ',ro-
pe*. a compromise upon this question.
Mr. WALTER sail, the more lie heard this subject dis-
cmensl, the more lie ass convinced that there were but
two mode., of dealing w ith the quest —to repeal the
decision of the House of Lords in the " Braintree cave,"
lor to abolish church-rates altogether. Ali the former air
ternative was wholly impossible, he thought it a loss of
time to discuss the other. The amendment adopted
principle inapplicable to church-rates. He had no doubt
that voluntary contributions would provide a substitute
for the rate, but he maw no reason, in theory or pric,
tic.', why a limited recourse should not be had to pew-
rents.
After a few words from Admiral WALCOT, the House
divided, when the amendment was negatived by 222 to
49.

The House then went into Committee upon the Bill,
the clauses of which having been agreed to,
Sir G. tinLY moved three new clauses, authorising
the cli4rging of •ppropriati.4l pews with rents,. to be
applied to the repair of the fabric of the church, and to
other purposes to which church-rates would have been
applicable.
The proposal encountered a very strong opposition
from Mr. EATC.9I.wr, Mr. WALPOLV., Lord MANNEns,
Mr. iIInVOIAN. and other members, and the first of
the clauses was negatived, deciding the fate of the other
two. _ . .

In •Co Its of Supply votes on account fur
Arusy Estimates were are to after a short conversa-
tion. . .

The House then went into Committee upon the Income
tax
.11ill, the elati.es of ahich were. agreed to.

The r1;1-11-Al1111114 Hill having been poded of, the House
adjourned at ti o'clock.

THURSDAY.

After a long preliminary discussion respecting the
order of proceeding with the business of the evening,
lenel SAIrLs moved for copies of papers on the
subject of the reorganisation of the army of
which, he said, were absolutely necessary to enable the
House to pronounce its judgment upon the subject.
The motion was seconded by Mr. Burros, who added
various arguments in favour of a local army.
After smile observations by Sir WILLOUGHBY, Sir
H. Vv.mc El, Mr. BRIGHT, and others.
Lord PALIIKUSToN gill this question did not merely
regard the interests of India ; it was an Imperial quer.
tion, and must be decided upon grounds of military and
political expediency, co:meriting the empire at large.
He noticed and replied to arguments urged in favour of
• local force in India. and objected to the production oi
the papers •ed for, as containing only partial infor-
mation. tending to mislead.
The discussion was continued by Colonel NORTH, Mr.
KIN:WM), and Mr. VANSITTART, and ultimately the
motion WO% negatived.
Mr. LINDSAY moved an address to Her Majesty,
1 praying that she would be pleased to enter into nego-
tiations with the Emperor of the French, with the view
of making a treaty fur thc reciprocal abrogation of all
disc m ting duties levied upon the vessels and their
cargoes of either of the two nations in the ports of the
other, and for procuring such alterations in the naviga-
tion laws of France as might tend to faciliate the coin-
inereial interemorse and strengthen the friendly relations
between England and France. Having given a history
of our own navigation laws, and described the success
which had followed their relaxation and final abroga•
ti,,,,, he explained the restriction imposed by France
upon foreign shipping, British ships being practically
excluded from certain parts of the trade of France;
and lie alt or,sl what she hind lost by her protective
policy. France, lie observed, had u greater sea-board
than any other country in Europe, guided with ports,
and might have a large mercantile navy ; hut the ship-
owners depended upon the Government, instead of them-
selves ; the French people were taxed to an enormous
extent to create a merchant service, and they were
beginning to understand that this was a mistaken
policy. He believed that the entire repeal of her navi-
gation laws would be beneficial to the sLipowners of
France. .

- e
, .....--.
Th,,,, tion was seconded by Mr. litiesexid..
Mr. 11. Ginsox, on the part of the Government,
offered no opposition to the motion; they wuuld, he
mid, use their utmost endeavours, at a fitting opportu-
nity, to effect its object.
The tion, after some discussion, was agreed to.
Mr. l'Aitows.t.t. moved for leave to bring in a Bill to
amend the law relating to the tenure and improvement
of land in Ireland. The Bill would be prospective only.
With respect to prospective improvement, he believed
it was absolutely necessary that the landlord should
have • right to object ; but he thought the improving
tenant tii4lit be asaurred of a certainty of compensation
by a cheap and simple process, the machinery of which
he explained.
Lord FERMOT objected that the Bill would not give
sufficient protection to the improving tenant ; that it
siould, in fact, legalize ejectment. He would rather
leave the law as it was.
The O'Dosuogux strongly objected to the last part of
the Bill.
Mr. LONGRIRLD expressed a favourable opinion of the
measure, objecting to • part of the machinery, which
was a matter of detail.
Mr. MAUrlitr., admiring the first two portions of the
Bill, had beard the latter portion with disappointment
awl pain. It would, in his opinion, sow the seeds of
future ilrils.
i Mr. MoNsigm, was of opinion that the measure would
' not give any satidaction to the people of Ireland. It
would not encourage the tenant-at-will to expend money
on the land.
Mr. Wurroeux disapproved the latter portion of the
Bill.
• Mr. DEAMT corrected a misapprehension respect-
ing that part of the Bill, which would not give, he said.
114 soppose I, any increased facilities fur ejectment. All
that was intended was that the landlord should have the
power of exercising his judgment as to any projected
tin prove men's.
The iliscioodon was continued by Mr. BOWTHR, Mr.
BL % KR, Mr. Crone, and Mr. llnsessr.
Mr. Illat.ixs, looking at the improved condition of
Ireland, suggested that this should be *general measure,
assimilating the law of England and Ireland.
Mr. rAnDwett., in his reply, stated that the Bill
would give no increased power of eviction.
ILeave was given to introduce the Bill.
Mr. LEARY obtained leave to bring in a Bill to Con-
lolidate and Amend the Law of Landlord and Tenant
I in Ireland i and
' Mr. P. URQUHART had leave to introduce • Bill to
Amend the Law of Eisiblementa in Ireland.
Mr. llottsemd. moved the second nadirs( of the
Pawnbrokers' Act Amendment Bill.
t Mr. Jamas moved to defer the second reading for six
I months.
The seem(' reading of the Bill was supported by Mr.
Mrttuit, and, upon • division, it was carried by Ild
to T.Z.
On the order for considering the Income-tax Bill, as
amended, a desultory conversation arose as to the
I course of public business, which ended in the adjouot-
I went of the debate upon the Bill.