1986-06-20

Hon. Lloyd Axworthy (Winnipeg-Fort Garry):: Mr. Speaker, I want to bring to the attention of the House a matter that would have a devastating impact upon intercollegiate sports in both western Canada and the Atlantic region. The Minister of State for Fitness and Amateur Sport (Mr. Jelinek) has decided to reallocate substantially the travel subsidy that is used to support athletic teams in both western Canada and the Atlantic region to move from university to university. The Minister made that decision without any prior consultation at all with the CIAU or the universities involved. They have sent him numerous telegrams asking for a meeting. If they do not have a meeting by June 27 intercollegiate sports in the Atlantic region and western Canada could come to an end.
This morning I call on all the Members of this House to make every effort to have the Minister of State for Fitness and Amateur Sport meet with the CIU and come to grips with this very important issue before we Find collegiate sports are destroyed in Canada; and that Minister will be held responsible.


REFUGEES
Mr. Dan Heap (Spadina):: Mr. Speaker, one month ago the Minister for Immigration (Mr. McLean) announced a program for reducing the backlog of refugee claimants in Canada.
Unfortunately it seems that he did not follow through with action. According to immigration lawyers in Toronto the regulations that were to be gazetted this week so refugee claimants, their lawyers, and immigration officers could know what they are doing, have still not been gazetted and will not be gazetted until next month or later. There is dreadful confusion. No new staff has even been hired, as promised, so that the existing staff is hopelessly overloaded. No new office has been opened, as promised.
The Refugee Status Advisory Committee, having made space in its calendar, is receiving no fast-track cases.
Clearly, false refugee claimants are coming in literally by the plane load, at nearly 1,000 per month, and the Minister has done nothing to stop this. What is the Minister doing to carry out the program he promised?


AGRICULTURE
Mr. Dave Nickerson (Western Arctic):: Mr. Speaker, subterranean agriculture may well become a growth industry in western Canada. Experiments in worked-out areas of the Potash Corporation of Saskatchewan mines appear to be showing positive results.
The advantages of such underground culture include a steady 80 temperature, no snow, hail, tempest or other natural occurrence which could damage crops, and an environment which is free of insects and other pests.
Light, fertilizer, and a growing medium must, of course, be provided. Cucumbers are said to thrive, and good results are being obtained with other vegetables, seedlings, and flowers.
Such innovations which, if successful, could add significantly to Canada's range of agricultural products, are certainly to be applauded.


VETERANS AFFAIRS
Mr. William G. Lesick (Edmonton East):: Mr. Speaker, when the Canadian Ukrainian veterans of the wars held their reunion and meetings last week, it was the first of its kind in Canada. Delegates, men and women of Ukrainian origin from across the country and even the United States and England, arrived in Edmonton to discuss mutual concerns and assistance for those in need. Naturally, old acquaintances were renewed, many for the first time in over 40 years. Also present were two veterans of World War I.

June 20, 1986
One of the highlights was the sod-turning ceremony at the Ukrainian Heritage Village, 35 miles east of Edmonton, where a statue of Michael Luchkowich, the first Member of Parliament of Ukrainian racial origin, will be erected. Another highlight was the official opening of the veterans' section in the Ukrainian Museum and Archives documenting the many contributions made by the Ukrainian veterans during the wars.
Ukrainian Canadians served with courage and pride, defending freedom for Canada. We pay tribute to them.
[DOT] * *


APARTHEID
Hon. Bob Kaplan (York Centre):: Mr. Speaker, I rise to talk about the situation in South Africa. The Government has indicated in the last few days, through the Secretary of State for External Affairs (Mr. Clark), that its present position is that Canadians should be called on to react in the light of certain revelations about what certain Canadian companies are continuing to do or not do in South Africa.
On behalf of my Party I want to say that we consider that an inadequate response by the Government of Canada. This is a time for the Government to show leadership, not to fall back and call on Canadians generally to take action. I know that Canadians will take action and express their indignation about events in South Africa and the role of Canadian companies in South Africa that continue to have investments and employees there.
Nevertheless, there is a time for leadership in the deteriorating situation in South Africa today-


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. Sixty seconds.

[ Translation]


AIRPORTS
Mrs. Lise Bourgault (Argenteuil-Papineau):: Over the past fifteen years, Mr. Speaker, the constituency of Argenteuil- Papineau has had to endure every kind of insult from the previous Liberal Government.
First it was Mirabel and barbaric expropriations, now we read newspaper headlines concerning the Bell Helicopter problem which we inherited from our predecessors.
And yet, Mr. Speaker, those who today stand sanctimonious and insist that our Government settle this matter quickly did not hesitate to use Canadian taxpayers' money to launch an advertising and electoral campaign at Mirabel. This message
was splashed across billboards-A $514-million investment,
3.000	permanent jobs.
Since 1984, Mr. Speaker, 30,000 Canadians have sent applications to Bell Helicopter in the hope of finding employment. The Liberals deceived the public with its own money.
In concluding I want to reassure Canadians, Quebecers and especially my constituents by telling them that the Minister responsible is discussing with the province to settle this matter in the near future. The outcome will be 600 real, conservative, safe, lasting, rational and promising jobs.


UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
Mr. Svend J. Robinson (Burnaby):: Mr. Speaker, over
10.000	farmworkers in the Lower Mainland of British Columbia, as well as other seasonal workers such as loggers and fishers, have recently been dealt a very serious blow by the Conservative Government. The new rule requiring 16 weeks to establish eligibility for UI on a repeat claim will have a devastating impact on these workers many of whom are sponsored immigrants of East Indian origin and are thus ineligible for welfare. The new rule is based on totally unrealistic unemployment statistics. Farmworkers are already excluded from most basic legal protections.
I wish to join with members of the Canadian Farmworkers Union, and its President Sarwan Boal, in calling upon the Conservative Government to recognize the serious problems facing the unemployed in B.C. and take immediate steps to rescind this harsh and punitive new rule.


THE ECONOMY
Mr. Jean-Guy Guilbault (Drummond):: Mr. Speaker, the latest economic indicators point to sustained economic growth in Quebec. Since the advent of this Government, 160,000 new jobs have been created in Quebec. The unemployment rate now stands at 10.6 per cent, the first time in five years when it is under 11 per cent.
The value of building permits in the first quarter of this year rose by 54 per cent. Additional investments in the building sector in 1985 topped $833 million. Building starts in May 1986 were 69 per cent higher that in the same month last year.
June 20, 1986

Farm bankruptcies in Quebec have gone down 50 per cent since 1984.
And 33.2 per cent of small businesses in Quebec had additional capital investment projects in the first six months of 1986.
These positive results flow from our economic renewal policy.
Oral Questions
In the interim, in order to ensure that we have all the facts, the Canadian Government should immediately join those other nations of the world which have already sought access to the Waldheim files of the UN War Crimes Commission. To do anything less would be a betrayal of what the victims of World War II died for, and for what this country and its soldiers bravely fought. Justice must be done.



Mr. Guy Ricard (Laval):: Mr. Speaker, the 1986 Montreal Economic Summit came to a close yesterday. During this Summit, business participants expressed their views and reached a consensus on many issues.
The representatives of those involved proposed resolutions which were adopted unanimously on matters such as the establishment of business zones, recognition by the Federal Government of Montreal as the Canadian centre of the aerospace industry; the creation of a high technology education centre; and the use of incubators, to name but a few.
Mr. Speaker, if we recall the interventions of the federal Conservative Ministers, we find that they have also made commitments on these same matters. It follows that the Conservative Government is aware of the concerns of the people of Montreal, that it knows the aspirations of the business participants and that it takes action to help them.


POSITION OF LIBERAL PARTY
Mr. Gabriel Fontaine (Levis):: Mr. Speaker, "yesterday evening, before the Ottawa Carleton Board of Trade, the Liberal Leader remained silent about the position of his party on the development of trade between Canada and the United States." This is what Manon Cornellier said this morning in the newspaper La Presse.
Mr. Speaker, the Liberal Party must really be weakened if it is unable to take a position on negotiations with our major trading partner. We export for $95 billion a year to the United States, which accounts for 80 per cent of all our exports.
Mr. Speaker, when the Liberal Leader can only talk gibberish about the negotiations, it shows incompetence. When his associates go around in circles, it shows gross complacency. When the Liberals put their thirst for power before the development of trade, it is a betrayal. In this area as in all others, the Liberals are disciples of Janus.


EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Mrs. Sheila Finestone (Mount Royal):: Mr. Speaker, immediately after the election of Mr. Kurt Waldheim as President of Austria I made a statement in the House calling upon the Canadian Government to direct its United Nations Ambassador to press for a thorough, independent, international investigation of the serious wartime allegations which have been made about Mr. Waldheim.
The Secretary of State for External Affairs (Mr. Clark) expressed support in the House for the thrust of my statement. In view of the report released yesterday in Montreal by civil rights lawyer, Professor Irwin Cotier, calling for an international tribunal to investigate the accusations about Mr. Waldheim, there is further cause to convene such an inquiry. Even Mr. Waldheim and the world-respected Simon Wiesen-thal have stated that it would be welcome.



ORAL QUESTION PERIOD


Right Hon. John N. Turner (Leader of the Opposition):: Mr. Speaker, we have the opportunity of asking a question of the Prime Minister. During this week, in general discussion about trade with the United States, the Government appears to have forgotten the particular plight of the shakes and shingles workers in British Columbia. I ask the Prime Minister, did he or his Minister instruct our chief negotiator, Mr. Reisman, to raise the issue, at the beginning of the talks in Washington this week, concerning the 35 per cent tariff which has put 4,000 men and women out of work in British Columbia? And did he raise the issue directly with the Vice-President of the United States, Mr. Bush, when he was in Ottawa?

June 20, 1986
Oral Questions


Right Hon. Brian Mulroney (Prime Minister):: Mr. Speaker, yes, indeed, I had a very direct and vigorous and, I hope, profitable exchange of views with Mr. Bush on this issue. I think he acknowledged his point of view in this regard at the press conference. I indicated to him that there had been an undertaking by the Government of the United States, in Quebec, that there would be no such action, and that this kind of action had an adverse effect upon workers in British Columbia, which we did not accept; and that, for whatever internal, political reasons motivated that, it remained unacceptable to the Government of Canada and we would continue to work in every way with them, through tribunals, working directly with the administration, (a) to bring correction to that situation on behalf of the workers in British Columbia, and (b), to ensure that it never took place again.


Some Hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


John Napier Turner: I hope we get some results from that, Mr. Speaker.


NEGOTIATOR'S INSTRUCTIONS
John Napier Turner: Mr. Speaker, on the issue of what is on the table and what is not on the table, there is growing confusion resulting from comments made on both sides of the border and by the chief negotiators for each country, and that confusion is provoking uncertainty in the business community of this country, as to where investments and if investments are to be made in our industries.
Would the Prime Minister be prepared to make a definitive statement on what his instructions are to Mr. Reisman as to the areas to be negotiated and not negotiated, so that some certainty can be returned to the business community?


Martin Brian Mulroney: Mr. Speaker, I think, in fairness, that if there is any confusion or dismay among the business leaders of the country, it was after watching the Leader of the Opposition on television on Monday night.
We have given a mandate to a very accomplished individual, Simon Reisman, who has served with distinction, with my right hon. friend in Finance, and elsewhere, who is deeply wedded to the national interests, the promotion of those objectives that we have set, talked about, in this House. I cannot prevent an American ambassador, an American functionary, from saying "we want to talk about" such and such a thing. It is a free country. It is a free world. They can do that.
Our instructions to our people are clear and were designed to create jobs and greater wealth in Canada, if possible, through a new, bilateral, comprehensive trade arrangement.


John Napier Turner: Just a final weekly example of the confusion.


An Hon. Member:: Oh, knock it off.


FINANCIAL SERVICES INQUIRY
John Napier Turner: Mr. Speaker, the Minister for International Trade said yesterday, "As far as we are concerned, we intend to negotiate financial services". He admitted in the same breath that the Americans did not want to negotiate those services. Perhaps I could ask the Prime Minister, or the Minister, to explain how he squares that particular position.


Martin Brian Mulroney: Mr. Speaker, not even the serious enemies of this Government- and we have a few-would suggest that we have lacked the clarity or courage on this issue when compared with the Liberals, who have demonstrated absolutely nothing.


Some Hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


Mr. Gray (Windsor West):: You didn't answer the question.


APARTHEID
Hon. Donald J. Johnston (Saint-Henri-Westmount):: Mr. Speaker, my question is also directed to the Prime Minister. The situation in South Africa continues to deteriorate daily, and Canadians have now seen the House of Representatives unanimously support the imposition of severe economic sanctions. Canadians are wondering why it is necessary to delay further a leadership role for Canada and the imposition of effective economic sanctions at this time.


Martin Brian Mulroney: Mr. Speaker, I regret to hear my hon. friend say that there is a denial of a leadership role for Canada. We tried to play the traditional Canadian role played by my predecessors in other circumstances when we were in Nassau.
In this case there are two important considerations. Of course the dismantling of apartheid in South Africa, a grave and growing evil, is the objective of all Hon. Members of the House. How we do it as members of the Commonwealth is also an important strategic consideration. We may be wrong, but it is our judgment that we can best accomplish this quite noble objective by making sure that the Commonwealth stays together and that there is unity of purpose and action. That requires the measured, reasonable course of action that we have been following and on which the Secretary of State for External Affairs has set out.
I will be meeting with Mrs. Thatcher on the 13th followed by a meeting of the seven Heads of Government of Commonwealth countries in London the first week of August. It is our hope that we can contribute substantially toward advancing in
June 20, 1986

real terms serious measures that will bring about an end to this corrupt and degrading system that exists in South Africa.


POSITION OF UNITED KINGDOM PRIME MINISTER
Donald James Johnston: Mr. Speaker, the concern is that that timetable does not reflect the sense of urgency people feel about the South African situation. 1 wonder if the Prime Minister could tell the House whether he has been in touch with Mrs. Thatcher and whether he has a strategy for bringing Mrs. Thatcher on board. Her public statements reflect a position which would seem to make it impossible to have the kind of unity of which the Prime Minister speaks. Could he share with us his views as to whether or not he can bring Mrs. Thatcher on board, and could he tell us whether or not he has spoken to her?


Martin Brian Mulroney: Mr. Speaker, in Nassau I had the occasion to work quite closely with, among others, Prime Minister Hawkes of Australia, Prime Minister Gandhi of India, and Kenneth Kaunda. They played key roles. Prime Minister Hawkes, for example, was the person who advanced the concept of the Eminent Persons Group.
These people are, like all of us, deeply committed to progress. They are key players in the next step. I have been in close touch with them. I have spoken by telephone to Prime Minister Gandhi at length, with Prime Minister Hawkes, with President Kaunda and with others. As I say, we are working in a measured and, I hope, a productive way toward making a contribution to the next step which must be the visible resolution of an unacceptable situation that defiles human beings. There must be some significant light shed on this matter.


MEDICAL CARE
Mr. Nelson A. Riis (Kamloops-Shuswap):: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Right Hon. Prime Minister who will recall that in January, 1984, the Canada Health Act was passed unanimously by Parliament. It specifically states that extra billing is against the principles of universal access to health care, and provides for penalties to those provinces that allow extra billing. Will the Prime Minister use the authority of his office to urge the doctors to put down their placards, to end the lockout of the sick, and to get back to providing health care to the people of Ontario?


Hon. Jake Epp (Minister of National Health and Welfare):: Mr. Speaker, I feel that as the Minister responsible for health care I answered that question yesterday. The Province of Ontario and the doctors of Ontario are involved in an issue which they must resolve.
Oral Questions
The Hon. Member has said that patients are being locked out, but that is not a correct statement. I can only repeat what I said yesterday. I checked yesterday with the office of the Minister of Health in Ontario and was informed that every emergency centre that is reported in the press as being closed has a medical doctor resident, and services are being provided under conditions which are now prevalent in Ontario.


ONTARIO HOSPITAL INSURANCE PLAN-SITUATION OF CONTRIBUTORS
Nelson Andrew Riis: Mr. Speaker, my supplementary question is directed to the Minister of National Health and Welfare. The Minister will know that doctors in Ontario are shutting down emergency wards are asking doctors in other provinces not to accept Ontario health insurance cards and are now threatening to accelerate their actions.

What action is the Minister taking to ensure that the principles of the Canada Health Act are being respected and that people are not being locked out from receiving proper health care?


Arthur Jacob (Jake) Epp: Mr. Speaker, again the Hon. Member uses the words "locked out", and again they are not the correct words to use in the circumstances. With regard to portability, I explained my responsibilities relative to portability, and that under the Canada Health Act there are two methods whereby Ontario residents outside Ontario can obtain medical help. I have been assured by Ontario that it will honour direct billings from doctors outside Ontario, and accept the bills which Ontario residents might have been required to pay. The portability conditions under the Canada Health Act are being met by the commitments of Ontario.


FEDERAL FUNDING
Nelson Andrew Riis: Perhaps the Minister should explain that nobody is being locked out to the woman who lost her child when she was unable to obtain access to the appropriate hospital earlier this week. My supplementary question is directed to the same Minister. Would he confirm that when the legislation banning extra billing is passed later today in the Legislature of Ontario the people of Ontario will be eligible for approximately $100 million, because of the funds which have been denied them as a result of extra billing, to enhance health care in the Province of Ontario?


Arthur Jacob (Jake) Epp: Mr. Speaker, I think all reasonable people who know the very tragic case which the Hon. Member cited, including members at Queen's Park and members of the Ontario Medical Assocation, have some question on whether the delay would have prevented the miscarriage.

June 20, 1986
Oral Questions
I,	as the Minister of Health, say to the Government of Ontario and to the doctors of Ontario that I would very seriously hope they would resolve their differences. I know the health care system is better served when men and women see their responsibilities, both public and professional, and sit down at the table, no matter how difficult the circumstances might be, to resolve those differences and get on with their responsibilities.


Some Hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


GOVERNMENT EXPENDITURES
Mr. Don Boudria (Glengarry-Prescott-Russell):: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Prime Minister. On a daily basis the media are reporting the excessive abuse by the Prime Minister in spending taxpayers' money on hotels, airplanes, videos, limousine rentals, caviar, and champagne, as if he had won the 649 Lottery. Will the Prime Minister now put a stop to the spending orgy of taxpayers' money? He spends it as if it were his own money when it clearly is not. When will he do this?


Martin Brian Mulroney: Mr. Speaker, for instance, as far as the Sommet de la francophonie is concerned, we first had to establish some important links with France, to pave the way for the first Sommet.


Mr. Ouellet:: And caviar with everything!


Martin Brian Mulroney: It was very important for us to project Canada's image internationally, especially within the context of a summit where our francophone dimension would be highlighted. We had a delegation representing all political groups, Francophones outside Quebec-


André Ouellet: They didn't run up those bills!


Martin Brian Mulroney: -and the Public Service. As far as I am concerned, Mr. Speaker, for me as a Quebecer and a representative from Quebec, this was a major event, where the emphasis lay on our relations with France, the Francophonie and the 40 member countries.
As far as I am concerned, I can say that we conducted ourselves with dignity and always bearing in mind the interests of this country.


REQUEST THAT PRIME MINISTER MAKE COMMITMENT
Don Boudria: Mr. Speaker, speaking on behalf of all Canadians who are out of work, all Canadians who are living on unemployment insurance and all those who have had enough of this wasteful spending, I urge the Prime Minister to rise in the House today
and give Canadians the assurance that this kind of spending will not be repeated because Canadians have had enough. Is he prepared to commit himself now?


Martin Brian Mulroney: Mr. Speaker, inasmuch as my hon. friend refers to personal expenditures, all I can do is tell my hon. friend to ask the media who were with us, or even my own worst enemy. They will give me one thing, I get up early and work all day non stop. My friend mentions spending. Let me say that we have conducted ourselves according to all of the norms. The spending is open to be analyzed and criticized.
With regard to my personal expenditures, I think my belief in that is best justified by action. I am the first Prime Minister of Canada who took a 15 per cent pay cut and who pays for his own food at 24 Sussex Drive.


Some Hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


SOCIAL SECURITY
Svend Johannes Robinson: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Right Hon. Prime Minister and concerns the Boubou Macoutes.
The Prime Minister is aware that women's, religious, labour and community organizations in Quebec have condemned this operation to check up on welfare recipients at their homes.
Considering the federal funds Quebec receives for social assistance, when is the Prime Minister going to condemn this bureaucratic terrorizing of the neediest in that province?


Arthur Jacob (Jake) Epp: Mr. Speaker, I apologize to the Hon. Member that I was not in my seat at the beginning of his question. The situation in Quebec- we have been informed and we have been checking it very closely- is that under the provisions of the Canada Assistance Plan Quebec is well within the regulations that form the basis of joint agreements between Quebec and Canada. While the situation needs monitoring on a day by day basis, what Quebec is doing is well within the Act.


FUNDING OF COMMON FRONT-GOVERNMENT POSITION
Svend Johannes Robinson: Mr. Speaker, my supplementary is directed to the Right Hon. Prime Minister.
June 20, 1986

Since these humiliating investigations are probably illegal and unconstitutional, is the Prime Minister prepared to pay a contribution to the common front that intends to attack this practice by the Quebec Liberal Government before the courts?


Arthur Jacob (Jake) Epp: Mr. Speaker, I think in the area of where a province administers social benefits we have to recognize that, within reasonable limits, provinces have a responsibility both to the provincial taxpayer and to the federal taxpayer to see that those people who genuinely need help and need social assistance receive it. That is the bottom line for the federal Government.
What I think we have to keep in mind is that these systems are jeopardized by a very small number and percentage of people who try to rip off the system. If that is what Quebec is going after, I think it is right in that respect.


GOVERNMENT EXPENDITURES
Robert Phillip Kaplan: Mr. Speaker, I want to return to the Prime Minister on the question of this grotesque spending on travel which he indicated is justified on the basis of the hard work he did and the success that he achieved. I want to ask the Prime Minister about the guidelines of the Department of Supply and Services which limit other Canadian officials to a per diem of $55 Canadian in New York- these are current Supply and Services per diems-and $60 Canadian in Paris, for meals and incidentals. The guidelines recommend hotels of under $100. Although the Prime Minister has worked hard and been successful, other Canadian officials work hard and seek to be successful-


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. Has the Hon. Member a question, please?


Robert Phillip Kaplan: What kind of an example does the grotesque luxurious lifestyles of the rich and famous that have been revealed show for his officials and for the officials of the Government of Canada, Mr. Speaker?


Martin Brian Mulroney: Mr. Speaker, while in New York for the fortieth anniversary of the founding of the United Nations, I stayed at the Pierre Hotel for two reasons. First, it is Canadian owned. Second, Mr. Trudeau used to stay there all the time.


Some Hon. Members:: Oh, oh!


Some Hon. Members:: Hear, hear!
Oral Questions


APPLICATION OF GUIDELINES TO OFFICIALS
Robert Phillip Kaplan: Mr. Speaker, is the Prime Minister telling us that these guidelines set by his Government for Canadian officials no longer apply and that they are also eligible to live the lifestyles of the rich and famous?


Martin Brian Mulroney: Mr. Speaker, the guidelines are there. They apply to whomever pursuant to objective facts set down by the Public Service. I can just tell my hon. friend that, for example, in Paris we were placed by the French Government in a given hotel for security reasons. I stayed in exactly the same hotel, I ate exactly the same food as the Liberal Member, the Hon. Member for Saint-Denis, who was part of our official delegation.


Some Hon. Members:: Oh, oh!


Some Hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Ms. Pauline Jewett (New Westminster-Coquitlam):: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. In light of the report compiled by Professor Irwin Cotier and released yesterday it is becoming increasingly apparent that the Conservative Government in 1958, and Liberal Governments during the decade before that, knew about the war crimes allegations against Kurt Waldheim. Is the Prime Minister prepared to launch an immediate investigation into the question of Kurt Waldheim's credentials, first, as Minister and then as Ambassador to Canada? Why were those credentials accepted without question?


Martin Brian Mulroney: Mr. Speaker, the Secretary of State for External Affairs is en route to a memorial service in Ireland and is presently securing the information. I will be happy to be in touch with him as quickly as possible and provide what information I can to my hon. friend.


REQUEST FOR INVESTIGATION OF WARTIME ACTIVITY REGULATIONS
Pauline Jewett: Mr. Speaker, given the very serious nature of these allegations, would the Prime Minister consider having Canada encourage the establishment of an international tribunal, of which Canada should be a member, to investigate fully the war crimes charges against Mr. Waldheim?


Martin Brian Mulroney: Mr. Speaker, I think the commitment of the Government of Canada in this area or the sincerity of our commitment ought

June 20, 1986
Oral Questions
to be judged against results. For 40 years there were allegations about war criminals residing in Canada, and very little, if anything, had been done. This Government was the first to appoint a royal commission to get at this issue right here in Canada.


Some Hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


MEDICAL CARE
Mr. Jean-Robert Gauthier (Ottawa-Vanier):: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Health and Welfare. It concerns the directive to all hospitals and doctors not to accept OHIP health cards but rather to bill the patients directly. Would the Minister use his influence and give the leadership that we expect of him, and tell all Canadian doctors that to use the health care system of Canada as a political arm or a political tool is both unethical and immoral?


Arthur Jacob (Jake) Epp: Mr. Speaker, I believe I have already indicated that I do not see the use of an OHIP card or any other card from a resident of another province as being an action whereby a patient, a person who needs medical assistance, should be put at risk. That is the public health care system that we have which has been endorsed by all Parties in this House and endorsed by the provinces of Canada. I have said very clearly-and that is why I had it checked to make sure-that the portability requirements of the Canada Health Act were being observed. They are being observed, from all the knowledge that I have and that I have received.
There is obviously a position that I take as Minister of Health. I expect Canadians to receive the medical care to which they are entitled whether they are inside their province or outside their province.


REQUEST THAT GOVERNMENT PERSUADE MR. GROSSMAN TO SUPPORT BILL 94
Jean-Robert Gauthier: Mr. Speaker, now that the issue extends beyond the Ontario border and involves Canada's national interest, does the Minister not feel, in view of his duties and responsibilities, that he should phone the President of the Canadian Medical Association to ask him to withdraw this directive, and perhaps also Mr. Grossman, the Tory Leader of Ontario, to ask him to get to it and support Bill 94?


Arthur Jacob (Jake) Epp: Mr. Speaker, I do not think the last statement about my phoning the Leader of the Opposition in Queen's Park is any more valid than whether the Member has phoned the Premier of Ontario and asked him to be reasonable and try to come to some agreement between the doctors and the Ontario Government. That kind of statement is just not helpful. The point that must be made is, as I said to the Member earlier, that I expect the doctors of Canada-


André Ouellet: The Minister of Health is for extra-billing.


Arthur Jacob (Jake) Epp: The Member for Papineau is as ridiculous today as is his reputation in this House and across the country.


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please.


André Ouellet: You're for extra-billing. That's what you are saying.


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please.


André Ouellet: Sit down.


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please! The Hon. Minister knows that such a personal comment is out of order.


Arthur Jacob (Jake) Epp: If I am out of order, I will gladly withdraw and leave the Member to search his own conscience.


Some Hon. Members:: Come on.


Mr. Penner:: That's no good. It must be unequivocal.


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. Order! The Chair has not found that the Member said anything unparliamentary. Such comments, as the Hon. Member knows, are out of order.


AGRICULTURE
Mr. Stan J. Hovdebo (Prince Albert):: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Right Hon. Prime Minister. The Prime Minister recently appointed a new Deputy Minister of Agriculture. Was Mr. Noreau speaking for the Prime Minister and his Government when he recently indicated that the Government's priority is no longer the protection of the family farm, but rather to help farmers get out of production?


Hon. John Wise (Minister of Agriculture):: Mr. Speaker, I welcome the opportunity to respond to that question and set the record straight. The statements of the new Deputy Minister of Agriculture were taken out of context. The Deputy
June 20, 1986

Minister was explaining another very important initiative taken by the Government. I refer to the Canadian Rural Transition Program.


FARM DEBT REVIEW PROGRAM
Stanley J. Hovdebo: Mr. Speaker, my supplementary question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture. Could the Minister tell us if the need to identify the approximately 20 per cent of farmers that the Government has decided will have to leave farming is the reason that there is a lack of effective deterrence in the Farm Debt Review Program which he put before the House?


John Wise: Mr. Speaker, I am amazed that we continue to hear questions of this kind. In the past the previous Government, aided by the New Democratic Party-


Mr. de Jong:: But you guys were going to be better.


John Wise: -did absolutely nothing for Canadian agriculture. As a result of mismanagement by that Government interest rates increased from about 10 per cent to 24 per cent. They added an input cost of well over $2 billion. They sat idly on their hands, with the support of the NDP, and did absolutely nothing.


Mr. Althouse:: What support of the NDP? You guys supported the Bank Act. We were the only ones who opposed it.


CAPE BRETON DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION
Mr. Lawrence I. O'Neil (Cape Breton Highlands-Canso):: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Acting Minister of Regional Industrial Expansion. Yesterday the Minister indicated that he was taking a course of action which he hoped would resolve the occupation of the mine building owned by the Cape Breton Development Corporation. Can the Minister tell the House whether those efforts have been successful?


Hon. Don Mazankowski (Acting Minister of Regional Industrial Expansion):: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to inform all Members of the House that the sit-in has been discontinued. Arrangements are now being made for representatives of the miners, management, and the board to meet with senior officials of my Department. I would like to thank the Hon. Member, Premier Buchanan of the Province of Nova Scotia, and other Members for the interest they have shown in this very important matter.
Oral Questions


CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS
Mr. Fernand Robichaud (Westmorland-Kent):: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Transport.

Yesterday the Minister accused me of distorting figures when I used the figure of 600 to represent the jobs lost at the Moncton shops. Does the Minister deny that 225 jobs were lost last fall and that a further 437 jobs will be lost on account of the sale? To what total do these figures amount? He may use a pencil.


Donald Frank Mazankowski: Mr. Speaker, I am not sure what that has to do with the recent announcement made by CN. I stand by the statement in the CN press release. Mr. Lawless, the President of CNR, said that when the agreement is reached between CN and Canadian General Electric, all 1,022 shop employees should either retain jobs or be accommodated through existing benefit plans. I stand by that.


Herbert Eser (Herb) Gray: That means the jobs are going. [Translation]


Fernand Robichaud: Mr. Speaker, the answer to my first question is 662.


MINISTER'S POSITION
Fernand Robichaud: Mr. Speaker, when is the Minister going to stand up and act like a responsible Minister and protect the jobs of Atlantic Canadians? Is he saying that as the Minister responsible for regional development and transport he is going to wash his hands of the whole matter and let CN do whatever it wants?


Donald Frank Mazankowski: Mr. Speaker, unlike the Hon. Member opposite who obviously does not want to have a locomotive manufacturing plant in Moncton-


Some Hon. Members:: Oh, oh!


Donald Frank Mazankowski: -we are taking positive steps to ensure that there is a long, stable future for the workers of Moncton-


Mr. Dingwall:: Oh, sit down.


Donald Frank Mazankowski: -and indeed for the Moncton area.


Some Hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


PROTECTION OF EMPLOYEES' RIGHTS
Mr. Les Benjamin (Regina West):: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Transport. We hope
14764

June 20, 1986
Oral Questions
that the development of a locomotive manufacturing plant in Moncton succeeds.


Miss MacDonald:: Then you are different from the Liberals.


Leslie Gordon Benjamin: However, when questioning CNR officials yesterday they sounded like a fellow who is going to lose his house and is trying to find someone else to take the keys.
Would the Minister prevail upon the management and board of directors of Canadian National, in their negotiations with Canadian General Electric, to ensure that the employees and their unions will retain successor rights under their new employer and that there will be no employees of CGE brought in from the United States?


Donald Frank Mazankowski: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased that the Hon. Member has adopted a positive attitude toward this because I think it is a positive development for the city of Moncton and its future industrial base.
As the Hon. Member knows, CN has indicated its intentions to enter into negotiations with Canadian General Electric within certain parameters which were approved by the board. All these things will be taken into consideration during the discussions. I am sure that CNR will be interested in the representations of the Hon. Member, and I will ensure that they are received.


Leslie Gordon Benjamin: Mr. Speaker, Canadian National said no yesterday to the question I just asked the Minister. I ask him to get them to change their minds.


CONTRACTUAL WORK INQUIRY
Leslie Gordon Benjamin: Mr. Speaker, Canadian National also said that it was going to convert the Point Charles plant into a contractual plant. Would the Minister be good enough to try to get Canadian National to do the same thing for the remainder of the shop operations in Moncton in an attempt to have the best of both worlds, both locomotive manufacturing and contractual shop work with other railroads in North America?


Donald Frank Mazankowski: Mr. Speaker, I am not sure whether the Hon. Member has been delegated to act as a bargaining agent for the unions or is just assuming that role. I will certainly convey his comments to the management of CN. I am sure they will be interested in them.


BANKS AND BANKING
Guy Ricard: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of State (Finance). In his last budget, the Minister of Finance had proposed to set up an International Banking Centre in the Montreal area. 1 should like to know wether such is still his intention. If so, when can we expect it?


Hon. Barbara McDougall (Minister of State (Finance)):: Yes, Mr. Speaker, the Government has indeed decided to facilitate the establishment of international banking Centres. As a matter of fact, my colleague the Minister of Finance has made public Messrs. Rasminski and Lawson's report to be used as a working paper. Now, we want to seek the advice of all interested parties, and the consultation process has already started.


CANADIAN JOBS STRATEGY
[Stage Direction]
Hon. Warren Allmand (Notre-Dame-de-Grace-Lachine
East): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Employment and Immigration. Yesterday the Ontario Minister for Skill Development joined the long list of those harshly criticizing the Jobs Strategy Program, not only for the cut of $800 million over three years but also for the bungled administration of the program.
When will the Minister start taking these criticisms seriously and honestly re-examine the Jobs Strategy Program to meet the criticisms leveled at it?
Flora Isabel MacDonald: Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to have the opportunity to quote the Ontario Minister of Skills Development. At the time we signed the National Training Act agreement he said: "It is good to see that the Minister of Employment and Immigration has indicated her Government's intention to increase the level of training provided in this province under the Canadian Jobs Strategy." He went on: "We are also pleased with the assurances we have received that Ontario's public training institutions will have a fair and realistic opportunity to compete for training purchases by the private sector under the Canadian Jobs Strategy."


MINISTER'S POSITION
[Stage Direction]
Hon. Warren Allmand (Notre-Dame-de-Grace-Lachine
East): Mr. Speaker, the Minister should read what he said
June 20, 1986
[Stage Direction]
yesterday. He was misled, like many Canadians in the last election.
Some Hon. Members:: Oh, oh!


Mr. Allmand:: How can the Minister say this is a good program when in a recent poll only 28 per cent of Canadians approved of it, when only three provinces have signed training agreements with her after one year, and organizations all over the country are criticizing the program? Who approves or supports the program besides the Tory caucus?


Flora Isabel MacDonald: Mr. Speaker, I know very well that the Hon. Member does not approve of the program. He would like to go back to the old programs which simply qualified people to go back on unemployment insurance. We have changed that. 1 realize he does not like that change or the fact we are contributing to the creation of more than 600,000 new jobs. I realize he does not like the fact that unemployment is coming down, and that the unemployment rate has dropped 3 per cent from what it was when he was in office.


ABORIGINAL RIGHTS
Mr. Jim Manly (Cowichan-Malahat-The Islands):: Mr. Speaker, in the absence of the Minister of Indian Affairs my question is directed to the Prime Minister. He has committed himself to protecting the rights of aboriginal people. While the Government proceeds with proposals to have the Goose Bay Airport and military base become a major military training centre for NATO, the interests of the Innu or Montagnais, the aboriginal people in the area, have not yet been taken into account. The Government has known of long-standing Innu complaints about low level flying, its detrimental effects on their environment and economy, indeed their total way of life. Therefore, will the Prime Minister assure the Innu that they will have full participation in impact studies before any decision is made about the future of the base?


Arthur Jacob (Jake) Epp: Mr. Speaker, I will take note of that question on behalf of the Minister of Indian Affairs. However, I think the Member should be aware that a process involving FEARO has been announced to check some of the points he has made as well as those made by the native people.


CONSULTATIVE PROCESS
James Douglas Manly: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct my supplementary question to the Prime Minister who is responsible for the over-all direction of the Government. I ask him if the consent of the Innu people
Oral Questions
will be secured before any decision is made concerning that base which will so vitally affect their total way of life?


Arthur Jacob (Jake) Epp: Mr. Speaker, I mentioned the FEARO process. As has been indicated, I should say that the people concerned are going to be very closely consulted. That is necessary so that we know the facts and we can make decisions based on facts. They will be very closely involved in the process, and that assurance I can give him on behalf of the Government.


TOURISM
Gabriel Fontaine: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of State (Tourism).
His Department has launched an advertising campaign directed to the United States to try and sell Canada's tourist potential. Is this investment beginning to yield positive results, and will they be felt in Canada and more particularly in the province of Quebec and, as a priority, in Quebec City which is the only North American city with outstanding fortifications?


Hon. Jack Murta (Minister of State (Tourism)):: Mr. Speaker, last year tourism contributed some $3 billion to the Province of Quebec. In the first quarter of 1986 it is up by some 13 per cent, or an extra $100 million. When it comes to tourism, hospitality and marketing are the cornerstones of what we are doing. Canada is doing a marvellous job this year and Quebec is right at the forefront.


Donald Frank Mazankowski: So is the Minister.


AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY
David Charles Dingwall: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Acting Minister of Regional Industrial Expansion. The Canadian auto industry is very important to the health of the Canadian economy. In order to ensure that sector continues to grow, is the Minister prepared to extend the existing import limitations on foreign automobile makers, including Korea, until such time as they meet all the provisions of the Auto Pact?


Hon. James Kelleher (Minister for International Trade):: Mr. Speaker, I can advise the Hon. Member that we are presently having discussions with Korea and Japan with

June 20, 1986
Oral Questions
respect to their auto exports to Canada. I hope that within the next several weeks we will be in a position to announce what has transpired.


AUTO PACT PROVISIONS
David Charles Dingwall: Mr. Speaker, I thank the Minister for his answer but can he explain to the Elouse the fairness of having two sets of rules, one for Canadian auto manufacturers and one for the offshore manufacturers? Is there not a great disparity there, and will he stand in his place and give us a commitment that the rules will be set for all auto makers as per the provisions of the Auto Pact?
Hon. Don Mazankowski (Acting Minister of Regional
Industrial Expansion): Mr. Speaker, it is clearly in the interests of those who are investing in Canada to achieve Auto Pact status because in doing so they open up the U.S. market. We are working with the automobile manufacturers and encouraging them in the expectation that Auto Pact status will be reached. However, that takes time, and I think the Hon. Member recognizes that.


GOVERNMENT EXPENDITURES
Mr. Ian Waddell (Vancouver-Kingsway):: Mr. Speaker, I would like to return to February in Paris and the Prime Minister's $3,400 hotel room.


Some Hon. Members:: Oh, no!


Ian Gardiner Waddell: The Government has guidelines for civil servants, MPs, cabinet Ministers, companies doing business in South Africa, indeed for just about everything. Given that, would it not be reasonable for the Prime Minister to set guidelines on extravagance for his travelling entourage?


Martin Brian Mulroney: Mr. Speaker, there were some, I think, regrettable constructions placed on some accounts submitted. The fact is, for example, that in the case of Mila and myself, we had for our use one bedroom and one bathroom. Everything else assigned to us by the Government of France was used for working purposes involving visiting Heads of Government, public servants, representatives of the French Government, and security considerations. The Mulroneys used one bedroom and one bathroom and that was it. I do not think Canadians want anything less.


Some Hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


HOTEL ROOM BILL
Ian Gardiner Waddell: Mr. Speaker, my supplementary question is to the President-rather, to the Prime Minister. Is he denying that the room cost $3,400, and can he tell us what you get for $3,400? Do you get chocolates on the pillow, for example? Why $3,400 for a hotel room?


Martin Brian Mulroney: Mr. Speaker, for that amount of money you get the NDP Member for Kenora-Rainy River down the hall.


Some Hon. Members:: Oh, oh!


Martin Brian Mulroney: He was an official member of the delegation, in the same hotel, attending the same-


Some Hon. Members:: On a per diem.


Martin Brian Mulroney: -as we did. We were assigned a suite of rooms by the Government of France. My wife and I occupied the two rooms I told you about. Everything else was used for other purposes, and I do not have the slightest intention of apologizing to you or anyone else because what we did was good effective work for Canada abroad, "we" being all members of the delegation.


Mr. Speaker:: The Hon. Member for York South-Weston, one question.


DISASTERS
Mr. John Nunziata (York South-Weston):: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Prime Minister and concerns the Air-India tragedy. While we appreciate the fact that the Secretary of State for External Affairs is travelling to Cork Ireland to participate in the memorial service, we are disappointed that the Government has refused to charter a boat to allow the families of the victims to travel from Cork to the actual crash site.
Can the Prime Minister explain this apparent lack of sensitivity? Will he make immediate arrangements to ensure that a boat is available in Cork on Monday to transport the families of the victims to the actual crash site to accommodate their emotional and religious needs?


James Francis Kelleher: Mr. Speaker, I can advise the Hon. Member that my colleague, the Minister of State for External Affairs, who is presently on his way to the memorial ceremony, discussed it with me last night. He advised me that Canada and India had examined that possibility very carefully. We did look into it.
June 20, 1986

We are completely aware of the sensitivities, the concerns, and feelings of the relatives.
Both countries, after a thorough examination, felt that it was not a practical thing to do. It was not workable under the circumstances, and the two countries together decided not to proceed with that plan, but to go ahead with the memorial service.


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. Twelve o'clock.


Mr. Marcel Prud'homme (Saint-Denis):: The Prime Minister having left, Mr. Speaker, I will wait, preferring to raise my question of privilege when he is here.

The first opportunity is now to pose a question of privilege, but I like to practise civility and I would like to do it in the presence of the Prime Minister (Mr. Mulroney). I will be guided by you, Mr. Speaker.


Mr. Speaker:: Order. The Hon. Member is claiming a question of privilege arising out of Question Period. He has the right to do it now, or he has the opportunity to send me a notice about it. If he is now saying that he knows it now his obligation is to raise it now.


Marcel Prud'homme: I will be very brief. I will reserve my right to elaborate at the appropriate time, except to say that as it is customary I was a delegate at the French Summit and everybody knows all the Members of Parliament in attendance there, ten of us, were on a per diem. I will reserve my right to say more in due time.


Mr. Speaker:: There is no such right. That is the Member's question of privilege? I am trying to say to the Hon. Member that if he has a question of privilege arising out of Question Period he has to raise it now.


Marcel Prud'homme: Mr. Speaker, when I say I will elaborate later that does not mean here. As I was saying, I am not the type to get excited over these issues. However if I heard it properly, the Right Hon. Prime Minister is saying that the Hon. Member from Saint-Denis (Mr. Prud'homme) ate the same food and stayed at the same place. Well, it is not exactly according to the fact. I do not want to get over excited about it. I was, like any other Member of Parliament, ten of us, on a per diem, and I stand my case there for the moment.


Mr. Speaker:: The Hon. Member knows that is not a question of privilege.
Statements by Ministers


PETITIONS
Mr. Doug Lewis (Parliamentary Secretary to President of the Privy Council):: Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 106(8), I have the honour to table in both official languages the Government response to six petitions, Nos. 331-525, 331540, 331-541, 331-542, 331-544 and 331-546.



STATEMENT BY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT


Donald Frank Mazankowski: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to remind the House, and all Canadians, of a tragic yet important anniversary in the aviation world.
On Sunday, June 23, 1985, Air-India Flight 182, enroute to England from Toronto and Montreal crashed into the North Atlantic off Ireland killing all 329 persons onboard.
On this anniversary of the Air-India disaster all Members of this House, and indeed all Canadians, feel again the deep sorrow and sadness at such a tragic loss of life.
The observation of the anniversary involves three countries, Canada, India and Ireland. On June 23, 1986 Canada will be participating in the benediction of a special memorial erected on land donated to Canada and India in perpetuity by the Government of Ireland on the seaside of Dunmanus Bay 200 miles west of where Flight 182 plunged into the grey Atlantic a year ago. The memorial bears this simple inscription, "In honour of those who died in the Air India flight".
At this time I want to extend once more our thanks and appreciation to the Government and citizens of Ireland for their tireless efforts in assisting with the search and the compassion and concern which they showed to the relatives and friends of the deceased while at Cork.
The Air-India tragedy, the bombing of Canadian Pacific Air Flight 003 at Narita Airport in Japan, and subsequent international terrorist attacks against civil aviation have generated a need for improved airport and aviation security throughout the world. For our part we have responded to this new reality and have continued to upgrade and improve our security procedures and equipment. Our desire is sincere and our efforts are unceasing to ensure that Canadians do not suffer from international terrorism in the future.
As we once again turn our minds to Cork and the Atlantic where the victims of the Air-India disaster perished we think of the sadness and sense of loss endured by the relatives and the friends of those victims. We pledge to them, to this House, and to all Canadians our Government's continued commitment and

June 20, 1986
Committee Reports
dedicated efforts to ensure the safety and security of our air transportation system.


André Ouellet: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Official Opposition, the Liberal Party of Canada, and on behalf of all my Liberal colleagues in the House of Commons, I want to express again to the families of the victims our deep sorrow and sadness for the tragic loss of these 329 lives.
I must comment at this time on the regretful decision by the Government to reject a plea for help from 70 grieving Canadians who want to make an ocean ferry pilgrimage to the crash site of the Air-India Flight 182, and perform last rites for family victims in accordance with their religious beliefs. I think it is regrettable that the Government was not able to find the $60,000 necessary for such a trip. It has just been confirmed by the Government, but they still have the weekend to think it over.
I think the Government should indeed reflect during the weekend, and make this money available. After all, as the organizer of this pilgrimage said, it is not a very large amount very big thing considering the magnitude of the tragedy and the fact that they are Canadians from coast to coast who have this compelling and emotional need.
I appreciate the efforts of the Government to try to improve security at our airports. I will have other occasions to say that 1 am not too happy with what the Government is doing. 1 have long felt that security at airports should become the total responsibility of the Government instead of being the responsibility of private companies who are submitting bids and are trying to make money out of the performance of this duty. I think because of worldwide terrorism it would be justifiable now for the Department of Transport to take over this responsibility and pay for it.
In closing, I want to say that this tragic incident, which so terribly affected so many Canadian families, should not be repeated. Our sorrow and our thoughts on Monday will be with these families of the victims. Indeed, I hope that in the few hours that are left, the Government will come back with a favourable decision. It is tourist season and the cost for many of these families to go to Europe is heavy. The Government should make the appropriate accommodations for them in Ireland to respect their religious way of paying respect to their families.


Some Hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


Leslie Gordon Benjamin: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of my colleagues, I join with the Minister and the Official Opposition in renewing our heartfelt sympathies and regrets. We send our best wishes to the friends and families of those who died in the Air-India disaster one year ago.
I know all of us in the House and all Canadians well remember the day of the crash and how we shared in Canada and with people around the world, particularly in India, the
horror and shock of the magnitude of the tragedy. Our memories about this will be long, as they should be. Hopefully we will learn and profit from our memories of those who died.
I want to add our gratitude to the Government and the people of Ireland for their great efforts and their gesture. It is something that should happen more often in the international scene.
The Minister knows that he will be supported by Members on this side of the House with any intiatives he undertakes to minimize the risk of air travel and the risk at airports. We also continue to push, as we have for a number of years, to have Transport Canada and the RCMP entirely responsible for airport security instead of the airlines themselves. However, the debate of how best to achieve those results will continue at another time.
I hope the Minister and Canada will provide even more leadership in the international scene, with international agencies in other countries, to strengthen airport and airline security in many more nations. There are still too many nations where that security is not very good.
Let us remember the incident and the great responsibility that has been thrust on all of us to do more in the hope that this will never happen again. As we do so, let us also remember that we hold the key to minimizing the grief of those who lost loved ones by ever being on guard against those few who would use this tragedy or any similar tragedy to broadly label cultural and religious groups. Many innocent people died in that Air-India flight. Let us also treat fairly in our hearts and minds the innocent who live among us here today. Again, our best wishes for a better future for the friends and families of the victims of the Air Indian disaster.


Some Hon. Members:: Hear, hear!



ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS


Mr. Scott Fennell (Ontario):: Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present the fortieth report of the Striking Committee in both official languages.


JUSTICE AND SOLICITOR GENERAL-FIRST REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE
Mr. Blaine A. Thacker (Lethbridge-Foothills):: Mr. Speaker, I have the honour of present the first report of the Standing Committee on Justice and Solicitor General, regarding subsection 24(2) of the Access to Information Act.
[Editor's Note: For above reports, see today's Votes and Proceedings.]
June 20, 1986


PETITION
Pauline Jewett: Mr. Speaker, we are still receiving petitions requesting the Government to restore the Katimavik program. I have the honour today to present a petition from a number of residents of New Westminster, Coquitlam, Port Coquitlam, Pitt Meadows, Maple Ridge, and other communities in the lower Fraser, humbly calling upon the House of Commons to request the Government to reinstate with full funding the Katimavik program for the young people of Canada.


QUESTION PASSED AS ORDER FOR RETURN
Philip Derek Lewis: Mr. Speaker, if question No. 571 could be made an order for return, the return would be tabled immediately.


Mr. Speaker:: Is it the pleasure of the House that question No. 571 be deemed to have been made an order for return?


Some Hon. Members:: Agreed.


CONTRIBUTIONS TO CULTURAL AND ARTS ORGANIZATIONS
Ms. McDonald: 1.	(a) Since September, 1984, has the Department of Communications made contributions to cultural and arts organizations and, if so, to which ones (6) what contributions went towards (/') their regular operations (11) the holding of conferences and meetings?
2.	Is it the policy of the Department to pay for dinner or other entertainment functions where the Minister or his representative speaks and, if so, since September, 1984, what functions did the Department financially support?
Return tabled.


Mr. Caccia:: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I want to ask the Parliamentary Secretary when he might answer my question P-26 for the production of papers dealing with the Environment Canada study carried out under the auspices of the Deputy Prime Minister (Mr. Nielsen) who, two weeks ago in the House, indicated that he would have no objection to the tabling of that report.


Philip Derek Lewis: Mr. Speaker, I have caused inquiries to be made as to when we might be able to table that document. I am not exactly sure what form it is in at the present time and it may
Point of Order-Mr. Greenaway
be that it has to be translated into both official languages. I have set this inquiry in motion to see exactly when we can table it.

Mr. Speaker, I ask that the remaining questions be allowed to stand.


Mr. Speaker:: Shall the remaining questions stand?


Some Hon. Members:: Agreed.


POINT OF ORDER
Mr. Lome Greenaway (Cariboo-Chilcotin):: Mr. Speaker, I want to point out to the House that on June 17 a meeting of the Standing Committee on Environment and Forestry had to be postponed because there were no interpreters.


Mr. Speaker:: The Chair and the House are aware of that matter. I indicated earlier, in response to a similar comment about another committee by the Hon. Member for Trinity (Miss Nicholson), that part of the problem is that we now have so many committees that there are more committees than the Secretary of State can provide translation for. Translation is provided to the committees and the House, not by the House itself, but by the Secretary of State.
That matter is currently under discussion with the Department in order to try to resolve these matters.


Victor Fredrich (Vic) Althouse: Mr. Speaker, I believe that when we began the legislative committee process there was an understanding among Members of the House that we would attempt to have the legislative committees meet when the House was sitting, while the standing committees and other committees would meet when the House was not sitting. I note that many standing committees are not doing that and I think this is putting some pressure on the Translation and contributing to the problem. I wanted to make certain that we all understood that that may be contributing to the problem.


Mr. Speaker:: I thank the Hon. Member.
Before proceeding to Government Orders, because of the ministerial statement, this day's sitting will be extended by nine minutes.

June 20, 1986
Bell Canada Act