1979-10-09

HOUSE OF COMMONS DEBATES


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FIRST SESSION-THIRTY-FIRST PARLIAMENT 29 Elizabeth II

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Published under the authority of the Speaker of the House of Commons by the Queen's Printer for Canada
Available from the Canadian Government Publishing Centre, Supply and Services Canada, Hull, Quebec, Canada K1A 0S9, at 50 cents per copy or $65 per year
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Tuesday, October 9, 1979
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The Thirtieth Parliament having been dissolved by proclamation on Monday, March 26, 1979, and writs having been issued and returned, a new Parliament was summoned to meet for the dispatch of business on Tuesday, October 9, 1979, and did accordingly meet on that day.
Tuesday, October 9, 1979
This being the day on which Parliament is convoked by proclamation of His Excellency the Administrator of the Government of Canada for the dispatch of business, and the members of the House being assembled:
C. B. Koester, Esquire, the Clerk of the House, read to the House a letter that the Honourable Ronald Martland, Puisne Judge of the Supreme Court of Canada, in his capacity as Deputy Governor General, will proceed to the Senate chamber to open the first session of the Thirty-first Parliament of Canada on this day, Tuesday, the ninth of October, 1979, at 10.30 a.m.
A message was delivered by Colonel T. G. Bowie, Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod, as follows:
Members of the House of Commons:
It is the desire of the Honourable the Deputy of His Excellency the Governor General of Canada that this honourable House attend him immediately in the chamber of the honourable the Senate.
Accordingly, the House went up to the Senate chamber, when the Speaker of the Senate said:
Honourable members of the Senate, and members of the House of Commons:
1 have it in command to let you know that the Honourable the Deputy of His Excellency the Governor General of Canada does not see fit to declare the causes of his summoning the present Parliament of Canada until the Speaker of the House of Commons shall have been chosen according to law, but this afternoon, at the hour of three o'clock, His Excellency the Governor General of Canada will declare the cause of calling this Parliament.

Right Hon. Joe Clark (Prime Minister):: Dr. Koester, the time has now come to proceed to the appointment of a candidate as Speaker of the House of Commons, a privilege long bestowed on the Prime Minister. The Deputy Governor General has just told us that the Prime Minister cannot state the reasons for convening Parliament until such time as a Speaker has been elected, because without a Speaker we are but a group of men and women and not a House of Commons. The Speaker is indeed our spokesman.
The first Speakers elected by their parliamentary colleagues had the responsibility of speaking to the sovereign, because the House had fought for several centuries to wrest from the crowned head of the state the power to rule the country in order to put it in the hands of the elected representatives of the people. It was indeed a dangerous office, requiring an exemplary courage and strength of conviction of those elected to it.
That is why we are electing a Speaker today. According to our tradition, he is supposed to resist the appointment and be accompanied to the Speaker's chair. This reminds us all that our government is a democratic one, that democracy has evolved over many centuries and that each and every one of us must do his or her utmost to protect our democratic rights and privileges.
The Speaker, sir, is the custodian of the privileges, rights, and the honour of the House of Commons, for he presides over the debates of the House and enforces the observance of all of the rules for preserving order in its proceedings. He is the representative of the House in its relations with the Crown, the Senate and other authorities and persons outside Parliament.
The Speaker has to be many things. He must be rigorously and scrupulously impartial in his deliberations. He is the servant of the whole House, not just a particular party. He must have a thorough knowledge of the rules, orders and precedents which guide our proceedings. Since, in the heat of debate, we are sometimes fractious, he must be firm, wise and able judiciously to settle our differences.
I am sure the members of this House will agree that Mr. James Jerome has displayed all of these qualities since he was

October 9, 1979
Election of Speaker
first elected Speaker in 1974. He has been fair, effective and sensitive in presiding over this House through five active years.
It is, therefore, Dr. Koester, my great pleasure to move, seconded by the right hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Trudeau):
That James Jerome, Esquire, member for the electoral district of Sudbury, do take the Chair of this House as Speaker.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!
[ Translation]


Right Hon. P. E. Trudeau (Leader of the Opposition):: Mr. Koester, dear colleagues of the House of Commons, may the agreement between the Prime Minister (Mr. Clark) and myself on the appointment of the hon. member for Sudbury (Mr. Jerome) as Speaker of the House of Commons be a token of harmony during this new Parliament. His appointment is also of historical significance in that, for the first time ever, a member of the opposition has been recommended for that important office by the government party.
I must confess that I feel a little like a father sending a son off into the world, anxious for his well-being but confident in his ability and determination to fight for the common good.
In the context of this Parliament, the hon. member for Sudbury is a natural choice to guide its business, moderate its disputes and uphold its procedures. I think we have made a right choice, for in the past five years he has presided over this House with wisdom, understanding and good humour. It would be a tough act to follow, and it is perhaps provident for all of us that he is following his own act.
Filled with good will as we are today, most of us know this will not be an easy Parliament. I suppose no Parliament is easy, but the experience of the last two decades has shown that minority Parliaments are fascinating, challenging and nerve-racking. Perhaps no-one's nerves are more on the rack than those of the Speaker, who holds the reins to pull the House together.

It can very well be stated and repeated that the government will act as if it had a majority, but the facts remain unchanged. Given that element of suspense, the atmosphere will be electric and the Speaker will have a difficult part to play warding off a storm. It rests with us all to recognize that the proceedings of the House are always vitally important for the country and go beyond mere partisan interests. My right hon. colleague opposite and his party now form the government. As for myself and the Liberal party, we will be playing a new role in the opposition. The roles have been reversed, but I am sure that both sides have had an opportunity to think it over during the past few months.

There can be an honest debate over the many changes of the past decade, but there is no question that change, slow as it always is with the parliamentary structure, has produced benefits for all parties. Rather than stifle opportunity, it has expanded it and past oppositions have benefited in a way to make them, as I well know, much more effective observers of government.
I talk of rule changes, of course, but there are many other innovations which were brought forth in the past ten years to make the oppositions more effective critics of governments, such as research staffs for caucuses, increased office and staff, space in the Confederation Building, offices in the constituencies, certain travel and telecommunications facilities, and broadcasting of the House of Commons. All these have made Parliament more effective, and the oppositions more effective.
Equally as important as change is the interpretation of change to fit the pressures of the House of Commons. In the past five years, the Chair has assessed these pressures in accordance with the Standing Orders and has issued, on a variety of occasions, its view of how procedures are best adapted to the functioning of the House.
In 1975, the hon. member for Sudbury set out in some detail his views on the considerations which should govern the daily question period, which he described as unique. To use his own words:
It is an excellent feature of our Parliament and while we have much to learn from other governmental systems, the question period is one area in which we are in the forefront of responsible government and every effort must be made to preserve the excellence of this practice.
He went on to say:
-any basic principle governing the question period ought to be such that it will enable members to put questions with a minimum of interference.
In a similar manner, he widened the operation of Standing Order 43 when it was agreed, in 1976, to allow 15 minutes to this procedure rather than have it encroach on the question period itself. I use these examples, Mr. Koester, to illustrate how the House has benefited from a flexible approach to its procedures in rapidly changing times.
I wish to assure the hon. member for Sudbury, should the House elect him to succeed himself, that this opposition will strive to follow the interpretations he has set down in the past which always gave a fair shake to the opposition.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: Finally, I would like to touch briefly on another aspect of this nomination which we feel is extremely important. This party has adhered consistently over the years to the underlying principle of the independence of the Speaker. On a number of occasions we have had debates and arguments about what independence means. I know some of my friends in other parties believe it is best achieved by the creation of a permanent Speaker who is above participation in the political
October 9, 1979

process; in essence, a figurehead who has security of tenure no matter how the political winds may shift.
Our view of independence, on the other hand, is that of a Speaker who is one among equals. He has earned his way into the House of Commons through election as a member of Parliament and then, through the confidence of his parliamentary peers, is chosen to serve them as the arbiter of their interests. Through this process we endorse our Speaker with the substance of independence, and 1 commend the Prime Minister (Mr. Clark) for accepting the principle that a member who has had the confidence of the House of Commons as its impartial presiding officer may continue to enjoy that confidence regardless of party affiliation.

My colleagues of the official opposition also join me in supporting the motion respecting the election of the hon. member for Sudbury to the Chair of the House and we can assure him of our support and co-operation.


Mr. Edward Broadbent (Oshawa):: Dr. Koester, I am pleased to give the support of our party to that motion.
I add immediately in this context, Dr. Koester, that under this motion-one which I am sure will be carried unanimously-we shall be reappointing the hon. member for Sudbury (Mr. Jerome) to perform in the present Parliament the duties he so ably carried out for us in the last. I would only add this to what the Prime Minister (Mr. Clark) and the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Trudeau) have said-incidentally, it was interesting to note that the Leader of the Opposition has taken a new-found interest in the fate of the opposition-


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh!


John Edward Broadbent: -1 understand the hon. member for Sudbury has just returned from a visit to China, and therefore he will understand me better than most when I say that the coming Parliament will be one in which we shall be living in interesting times. A man or a woman-in this case, a man-of a judicious nature, fair-mindedness and tough-mindedness is required, and my colleagues and I cannot think of anyone who better fits the bill than does the hon. member for Sudbury.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


Mr. Fabien Roy (Beauce):: Dr. Koester, 1 am very happy to join the mover and the seconder as well as the leader of the New Democratic Party in supporting the motion now before us. 1 think the selection of the hon. member for Sudbury (Mr. Jerome) as Speaker of this House is a very wise one. His experience and competence are known not only in this House but also outside of it. And 1 think that the way he ran the business of the House of Commons in recent years is a sign of his impartiality and his intention that the business of the
Election of Speaker
House be carried out in an orderly and dignified fashion. I am convinced his experience will be very useful to the House, and his role is to consider as well that there are also minorities in this House. There are four political parties sitting here with avowed responsibilities. That is why we rely on the co-operation and impartiality of the Speaker so all members on both sides of the House can be heard and represent their fellow citizens and carry out the role they have been assigned under their mandate.
Dr. Koester, I want to assure him of my support and that of all my colleagues so he may indeed carry out that task with dignity and impartiality.


Mr. Marcel Prud'homme (Saint-Denis):: Dr. Koester, 1 think that the Social Credit Party of Canada having been given the floor it might be agreed that other members participate at this point in the debate and join the right hon. Prime Minister (Mr. Clark) as well as the right hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Trudeau) as well as the Leader of the New Democratic Party and my good friend the hon. member for Beauce (Mr. Roy) in supporting this nomination with great pleasure.
The Clerk of the House declared the motion carried in the affirmative, nemine contradicente, and James Jerome, Esquire, member for the electoral district of Sudbury, duly elected to the Chair of the House.
Mr. Jerome was conducted from his seat in the House to the Speaker's chair by right hon. Joe Clark and right hon. P. E. Trudeau.


Mr. Speaker:: Hon. members, I beg to return my humble acknowledgements to the House for the great honour you have been pleased to confer on me by choosing me to be your Speaker.
It is hard to believe that it is a little more than five years ago that I first spoke those unfamiliar words, and in doing so I reflected at that time on the tradition that those words involve.
I then said, not considering myself at that time to be much of a traditionalist, that in examining traditions those which persist seem always to have an intrinsic value to them which far outweighs their mere ceremonial significance, and that language with which an elected Speaker humbly returns acknowledgements for such a great honour is accurate in every way and significant, just as the tradition of resisting, once chosen by the House, taking on this obligation.
That has as its roots the traditions of the very speakership itself which, even in its terminology, seems to be obscure in meaning because the one thing the Speaker is never seen to do is to speak in the House or, at least, not very often, to the delight of the members, I am sure.
Going back to the early traditions of this great responsibility, initially having to go, on behalf of Parliament, to appear

October 9, 1979
Election of Speaker
before the monarch in his own chosen chamber, and there to demand, on behalf of the people of the nation who had dared to get themselves elected into a House of Commons and, furthermore, dared to try to have a say in how the country might be run-a development which was not particularly popular with the monarch at the time-meant that Speakers were not very popular with the monarch at the time and in fact one of them, on this mission on behalf of democracy, was beheaded.
I say that so that my reluctance in coming to the Chair will be understood, and I have no illusions that on many days during the course of this Parliament that would be a fate which would seem quite acceptable as far as most members of the House of Commons are concerned; and, in fact, on some days there will be some who will be glad to take a hand at the axe.
In any case, 1 am happy to say that the reception which we now receive in the other place is much more cordial. Nevertheless, even this afternoon my first obligation on your behalf will be to appear before the representative of Her Majesty to demand, on our behalf, the rights and privileges we require to carry out our business as elected representatives, freedom of speech in this assembly and the right to carry out, free from interference from Her Majesty or any other powers, our business on behalf of the electors of the country.

Needless to say, it is a great honour to be elected as a member of the House of Commons. And if it is an honour to gain approval from the supreme judges within our democratic system, our fellow citizens, it is an even greater one to be chosen by hon. members to preside over these important sittings.
It is an honour and an obligation which I accept with humility. I accept it on your behalf and I make the commitment to you, as I did five years ago, that I will place the obligation above every other consideration, whether it be of party politics, of family, of friends, or whatever. It is an obligation which I place above every other. I said then that it was one that I never expected to fulfil. Certainly, I never expected that I would be standing here attempting to fulfil it a second time.
In conclusion, may I say, in thanking the right hon. Prime Minister (Mr. Clark), the right hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Trudeau), the hon. member for Oshawa (Mr. Broadbent) and the hon. member for Beauce (Mr. Roy), that it is not possible for any Speaker to preside over this chamber without the good will of the members. Furthermore, it is only possible to succeed, or hope to succeed, on the basis of your desire that the meetings be orderly.
I cannot help but conclude that we have taken a step in these last five years, in introducing television into our proceedings, which has placed us, I believe, in the forefront of the

democratic nations of the world, because the essence and the fundamental principle of democratic government is that it takes place in the open, in full view of the citizens. Television has made that possible in our society in a way that no other single step has been able to accomplish in our history. It has offered us the opportunity to participate together as citizens in this process, but it has also placed upon us the obligation to see to it that in this chamber, where often opinions clash, our meetings are exemplary, not only in the content of our dealings but also in our attitude and our conduct toward each other.
I say to you that it is with your good will and your consensus that we will be able to have such meetings. My ability to preside over them always rests in your hands. This will never change, and the minute I lose that good will or that confidence 1 shall not be able to preside. It is you who make it possible to preside and I offer you my co-operation, as I have tried to give it in the past, because I do believe that together we will make this one of the great Parliaments of our country. I thank you again for the confidence you have placed in me.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


SITTING SUSPENDED
Charles Joseph Clark: Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that the sitting be suspended until 3 p.m. this day.


Mr. Speaker:: It has been suggested by the right hon. Prime Minister (Mr. Clark) that the sitting be suspended until three o'clock this afternoon. Is the House agreed?


Some hon. Members:: Agreed.


Mr. Speaker:: Accordingly, the sitting is suspended until three o'clock this afternoon.
At 11.26 a.m. the sitting was suspended until 3 p.m. this day.


SITTING RESUMED
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The House resumed at 3 p.m.

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Mr. Speaker read a communication from the Governor General's secretary announcing that His Excellency the Administrator of the Government of Canada would proceed to the Senate chamber at three o'clock on this day for the purpose of formally opening the session of the Dominion Parliament.
A message was delivered by Colonel T. G. Bowie, Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod, as follows:
[Stage Direction]
October 9, 1979
Mr. Speaker, it is the pleasure of His Excellency the Administrator of the Government of Canada that this honourable House attend him immediately in the chamber of the honourable the Senate.
Accordingly, Mr. Speaker with the House went up to the Senate chamber. Then the Hon. James Jerome, Speaker of the House of Commons, said:
May it please Your Excellency,
The House of Commons have elected me their Speaker, though I am but little able to fulfil the important duties thus assigned to me.
If in the performance of those duties I should at any time fall into error, I pray that the fault may be imputed to me, and not to the Commons, whose servant I am, and who, through me, the better to enable them to discharge their duty to their Queen and country, humbly claim all their undoubted rights and privileges, especially that they may have freedom of speech in their debates, access to Your Excellency's person at all seasonable times, and that their proceedings may receive from Your Excellency the most favourable construction.
The Honourable the Speaker of the Senate, addressing the Honourable the Speaker of the House of Commons, then said:
Mr. Speaker, I am commanded by His Excellency the Administrator of the Government of Canada to declare to you that he freely confides in the duty and attachment of the House of Commons to Her Majesty's person and government, and not doubting that their proceedings will be conducted with wisdom, temper and prudence, he grants and upon all occasions will recognize and allow their constitutional privileges.
I am commanded also to assure you that the Commons shall have ready access to His Excellency upon all seasonable occasions, and that their proceedings, as well as your words and actions, will constantly receive from him the most favourable construction.
Then His Excellency the Administrator of the Government of Canada was pleased to open Parliament by a speech from the throne.
And the House being returned to the Commons chamber:
[ Translation]
Mr. Speaker:: I have the honour to report that, the House having attended on His Excellency the Governor General in the Senate chamber, 1 informed His Excellency that the choice of Speaker had fallen upon me and, in your names and on your behalf, 1 made the usual claim for your privileges, which His Excellency was pleased to confirm to you.


OATHS OF OFFICE
Charles Joseph Clark: for leave to introduce Bill C-l, respecting the administration of the oaths of office.
Motion agreed to and bill read the first time.

SPEECH	FROM THE	THRONE


Mr. Speaker:: I	have	the honour	to	inform	the House that
when the House did attend His Excellency the Governor
Speech from the Throne
General this day in the Senate chamber, His Excellency was pleased to make a speech to both Houses of Parliament. To prevent mistakes, I have obtained a copy which is as follows:
Honourable Members of the Senate:
Members of the House of Commons:
I have the honour to welcome you to the First Session of the Thirty-first Parliament of Canada.
Canada has been honoured this year by visits from two members of the Royal Family. In April the Prince of Wales travelled to the west and north and to Toronto and Ottawa. In June and July Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother graciously undertook engagements in Halifax and Toronto. Members will be pleased to hear of Prince Philip's forthcoming brief visit this October in preparation for the Duke of Edinburgh's Commonwealth Study Conference in Canada next spring. Meanwhile in November Princess Anne will fulfil engagements with the Canadian Save the Children Fund.
During this year I have had a most memorable opportunity to reinforce my appreciation of the beauty, variety and natural wealth of our country. My wife and 1 have experienced the warm welcome extended to us by each region in its own special way. We have paid official visits to all ten provinces and the Northwest Territories, and we look forward to a visit before long to the Yukon Territory. We have also had periods of residence in The Citadel, Quebec, and in quarters made available in the Governor's House at Lower Fort Garry.
1 am proud, in my capacity as representative of our gracious Sovereign Queen Elizabeth II, to participate in this important ceremony in the life of our nation, which brings together the three elements of the Parliament of Canada, the Crown, the Senate and the House of Commons.
1 look forward to meeting the members of this new Parliament.
My ministers were given a mandate to change the direction of the Government of Canada, as we enter the 1980s. The basic purposes of that change will be to enhance the rights, freedoms and opportunities of individual Canadians, and re-establish the spirit of partnership and renewal which are fundamental to our federation.

The mandate of my ministers is also to build upon the special strengths of Canada. We front on one mass market and three great oceans, with access to the world. Each of our regions contains vast physical resources which can be the basis of industrial strength well into the future. Confident local identities are emerging-rooted in language, custom and community-and yielding a cultural vitality unique among nations. My ministers believe that the way to build a whole nation is to respect our individual parts, and you will be invited to consider measures to build upon the diverse regional and cultural strengths of Canada.
During the past four months, my ministers have made every effort to change the climate of federal/provincial relations which has prevailed in recent years. As a result of their efforts, there has been visible progress. An agreement on lotteries has been concluded and agreement in principle has been reached with certain coastal provinces concerning offshore mineral resources. Bringing about this change in relations is fundamental to my government's philosophy. Working with our provincial partners, we seek practical solutions to concrete problems.
To make federalism work, it is essential to change the attitudes of the past and the federal government must set the example. Accordingly, it is a primary goal of my government to bring about a new era in federal-provincial relations. Consultation and co-operation will be the hallmarks of that new era. The time has come to reconcile our differences. It is time to work together to fully realize our country's potential. It is by building for the future that we will renew Canadian federalism. In this spirit, my government looks forward to the next Conference of First Ministers in Ottawa this year.

Citizens and Parliament can control government only if information is public. You will be asked to approve freedom of information legislation based on the principle that government information should be available to the people, that necessary exceptions to that principle should be limited and specified, and that disputes over the application of those exceptions should be resolved independently of the government.
6

October 9, 1979
Speech from the Throne
To correct inequities currently borne by some Canadian individuals, you will be asked to amend sections of the Indian Act, to extend spouses' allowances in circumstances where they are now denied, to amend certain legislation respecting veterans, and to further protect the privacy of individual Canadians.
You will also be asked to consider reforms to extend the power of Parliament. Proposals will be submitted to the Standing Committee on Procedure and Organization to strengthen the powers and resources of parliamentary committees, to accord more prominence to private members' initiatives, and to make my ministers more accountable to you. The standing committee also will be invited to consider the question of a permanent Speaker for the House of Commons.
To demonstrate the capacity of Parliament, you will be asked to approve the immediate establishment of four small select committees, with the resources and powers necessary to enquire fully into the special needs of handicapped and disabled Canadians; measures to strengthen the role of the voluntary sector in our society; policies with respect to foreign ownership, including the operations of the Foreign Investment Review Agency; and measures necessary to prevent recurring cost overruns on major government projects. You will be invited to establish a joint committee to undertake a broad enquiry into the future development of nuclear energy in Canada. In addition, standing committees of Parliament will be invited to examine Canadian cultural policy, Canadian foreign policy, and the retirement income needs of Canadians in the 1980s. Annual reports of crown corporations, the commissioner of official languages, the Economic Council of Canada and other similar bodies will be referred automatically to the appropriate committees of Parliament.
To broaden responsibility for the management of Parliament, Privy Councillors not members of cabinet and drawn from both sides of the House will be invited to serve as commissioners of internal economy.

My ministers believe the greatest immediate challenge facing Canada today is to restore growth, confidence and jobs to the Canadian economy. While our economy faces serious immediate problems, my government believes the economic potential of Canada is the strongest in the world. My ministers will propose a five-part strategy to build on that potential.
First, my ministers will reduce the burden of government on the economy by better controlling expenditures. A new expenditure management system has been introduced within the government to set strict over-all spending limits, to ensure that all ministers accept full responsibility for spending restraint, and to require that funds for new programs come from savings in existing programs. In that context, you will be asked to approve creation of a Ministry of State for Social Development to better co-ordinate social programs and expenditures.
My government has initiated action to reduce the size of the federal public service and to offer for private purchase and ownership Crown corporations operating in areas where direct government intervention is no longer necessary. Legislation will be introduced to strengthen control over and accountability of remaining Crown corporations. You will also be asked to approve "sunset" legislation to provide a regular opportunity for Parliament to judge whether government programs and agencies need continue in their present form, if at all. The form of the estimates to be placed before you will be improved to provide more accurate information. You will be given projections of government revenues and expenditures for the next four years so that you can judge the probable impact of today's decisions on tomorrow's economy.

Second, my government will place greater reliance on individual initiative to generate growth and jobs for Canadians. You will receive proposals for regulatory reform, designed to ensure that the certainty and nature of government regulation encourages individual initiative and planning. Measures will be introduced to expand research and development in Canada and to further promote exports of Canadian goods and services. You will be asked to approve agreements arising from the Tokyo round of multilateral trade negotiations, including adjustment measures for industries adversely affected by those agreements. The Minister of State for Economic Development will convene a National Economic Development Conference to discuss with the provinces, business, labour, co-operatives and other groups, Canada's economic goals for the decade ahead, and how they might best be achieved in a spirit of full economic partnership. In that same spirit, legislation will be introduced to improve the handling of industrial disputes within federal jurisdiction.
(Mr. Speaker.]
Third, my government will propose measures to help individual Canadians build a stake in our country. You will be asked to approve a program of tax credits for mortgage interest and property taxes. Measures will be placed before you to assist small and medium-size enterprises, and to encourage more Canadians to participate in the ownership of public and private enterprises. You will be asked to consider revisions to the Employment Tax Credit program, the creation of a Youth Employment Secretariat, and other measures to create new jobs for young Canadians. An employment strategy for women will be placed before you. Programs to assist native Canadians to develop and apply work skills will be expanded. Changes will be introduced in the unemployment insurance program to ensure greater equity and to remove disincentives to work.
Fourth, my government will ask you to support programs which build upon the strengths of the regions of Canada. Legislation will be placed before you to strengthen the mandate of the Department of Regional Economic Expansion. You will be asked to consider a white paper on future development of our fisheries resources, prepared in consultation with fishermen, the fishing industry and the provinces. My ministers have begun to overhaul the grain transportation system through appointment of a grain transportation co-ordinator, the signing of agreements for the development of the Prince Rupert terminal, and a significant increase in hopper car capacity. A Seaway Advisory Council will be created to ensure that users and affected areas can contribute to policy concerning this essential waterway. My government will ensure an even flow of work to Canadian shipyards, as we develop an effective Canadian merchant fleet. Measures will be introduced to encourage further mining development in the Canadian north, and to strengthen the capacity of our two territorial governments to manage their own affairs. In co-operation with the provinces and industry, a national tourism strategy will be developed.
Fifth, my government is committed to making Canada self-sufficient in energy by 1990. To that end, in consultation with the provinces, measures will be introduced to encourage a significant reduction in Canada's over-all energy consumption, and to stimulate a major expansion in our capacity to supply and distribute energy in various forms. In bringing forth these measures, my government accepts and respects provincial jurisdiction over resources, as it accepts its own responsibility to ensure economic stability, competitive advantage and other national objectives.
My government views the diversity of Canada as a great national asset, and is determined to encourage, not limit, the development and expression of that diversity. That encouragement will be the beginning principle of the proposals by my ministers for consideration by the parliamentary committee reviewing cultural policies. It will be the purpose of an amendment to the Immigration Act to embed in its preamble the multicultural fact of Canada.
[ Translation]
Legislation will be introduced to encourage fuller provincial and parliamentary participation in telecommunications policy-making. The Canadian Film Development Corporation Act will be amended to significantly increase private sector participation in the corporation and to broaden its mandate to encompass development of the recording and publishing industries in Canada.
Members of the House of Commons,
During the session you will be asked to appropriate the funds required for the services and payments authorized by Parliament.
You will be asked to approve a number of bills left pending at the dissolution of the previous Parliament.
You will be asked to consider other measures.

Honourable Members of the Senate,
Members of the House of Commons,
May divine providence guide you in your deliberations.


Charles Joseph Clark: That the speech of His Excellency the Governor General delivered this day from the throne to both Houses of Parliament be taken into consideration later this day.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.
[Stage Direction]
October 9, 1979

Mr. Speaker:: 1 have the honour to inform the House that since the General Election held on May 22, 1979, communications have been received from several members notifying the Chief Electoral Officer, in accordance with chapter H-9 of the Revised Statutes of Canada, 1970, that the following vacancies have occurred in the representation, namely:
The Hon. Don Jamieson, member for the electoral district of Burin-St. George's, by resignation.
The Right Hon. John G. Diefenbaker, member for the electoral district of Prince Albert, by decease.
Accordingly, new writs of election have been issued.


THE LATE RIGHT HON. J. G. DIEFENBAKER TRIBUTES TO FORMER PRIME MINISTER
Charles Joseph Clark: Mr. Speaker, 1 think it would be appropriate at this point in the proceedings of the first session of the Thirty-first Parliament for the House of Commons of Canada to pause and pay tribute to a man whose presence dominated this chamber for almost four decades, the late Right Hon. John George Diefenbaker. Different Canadians remember different qualities of that extraordinary man. But whatever our other memories over a long and dynamic past I think all of us see him here in this House of Commons in a fighting stance, a House of Commons man who came to symbolize an institution he so often dominated. Here and in the land he was the great populist of Canadian public life who brought vitality to a political process which had all too often become distanced from the people it served. As Canadians, we have always felt ourselves heirs to the spirit of parliamentary democracy as well as to its form, and John Diefenbaker was the symbol of that spirit.

But what is even more fundamental is that he has entirely changed our attitude toward our own country. The development of the north which he initiated, and that of the various regions which he encouraged, demonstrate to what extent he was aware of the very extensive opportunities offered by this great country of ours. Canada is essentially a country of builders, and our strength and outlook as pioneers have never been expressed more vigorously or presented more dramatically than through John Diefenbaker's convictions.

He was an indomitable man, a man of passion with strongly held and vigorously defended views, an unequivocal patriot whose commitment and devotion to Canada were beyond question, a statesman whose stature was enhanced by his warmth and by his personal approach toward the people and the land he loved so deeply. He was a singular man who
The Late Right Hon. J. G. Diefenbaker
entered and enlarged the lives of all of us as no one ever will again. Our people and our Parliament will miss him deeply.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: Mr. Speaker, all of us have expressed in our own way our feelings on the death of the right hon. member for Prince Albert, but it is fitting that one of our first functions in the new Parliament should be to remember him in the context he loved the most. This House was his working home, politically, intellectually and emotionally; it was courtroom, hustings and family parlour all rolled into one.
Almost 40 years is an extraordinarily long time to remain in the nest. Even more extraordinary is the manner in which the right hon. gentleman continued to contribute to this House. Members came and went, were exulted or diminished, performed or languished, but John Diefenbaker marched right along, never missing a step, never missing an opportunity. [Translation]
First elected in 1940, he arrived here full of enthusiasm, dedication and fighting spirit eager to do what he had always dreamed of doing. The winds of fortune may have changed many times over these past 40 years, but John Diefenbaker remained faithful to his personality and convictions. The ele-quence and idealism he had brought from western Canada were still very much in evidence in the last electoral victory which was to bring him back fighting in the House of Commons.
John Diefenbaker will be remembered as a fighter, because that is essentially what he was. He had fought for human rights and for values dear to the hearts of ordinary citizens. He was a man they could understand because he spoke their language. Whenever he stood up in the House to speak on their behalf, other hon. members not only listened well, but took note of what he had to say.

He was a remarkable politician whose strongly held beliefs, ideals and antagonisms were not always shared, though his vigour in holding them was greatly admired. He was more than just a public man. He did not simply touch a person, he got inside him. Indeed, some might say he got under their skin. He was part of this chamber in an almost unnatural sort of way. Even when he did not speak you knew he was here. And when he was not here people would go around wondering what Dief would have said.
I do not know about other members, but I have the uneasy feeling he is still part of this place. Just this morning as I was speaking my thoughts on the role of the opposition when we elected you, Mr. Speaker, I half looked over at the other side expecting to see him shaking his finger at me and thundering, "Never has there been such a conversion since Saul on the road to Damascus."


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh!

October 9, 1979
The Late Right Hon. J. G. Diefenbaker
Mir. Trudeau: He sometimes mentioned to me the loneliness of being the only surviving former prime minister and seemed sincerely keen to have some company. I now know how he felt and sincerely share his keenness.


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh!


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: It is sad that John Diefenbaker is not here today, Mr. Speaker, and we shall miss him. But just speaking of the impact he made on Canadians and upon this House is a happy tribute to a person who knew the joy and satisfaction of doing what he wanted to do with his life and doing it to the best of his ability. What more could any of us wish as a record of our own ambitions and achievements?
On behalf of the official opposition, I extend our sympathy to the right hon. gentleman's family. They can treasure the memory of his career and take comfort from the rich life which he and Mrs. Diefenbaker enjoyed together.


John Edward Broadbent: Mr. Speaker, I join the Prime Minister (Mr. Clark) and the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Trudeau) in extending deepest sympathy on behalf of our party to the members of John Diefenbaker's family.
Although it goes without saying among members of this House who knew him and saw him in action that John Diefenbaker was an extraordinary parliamentarian, it is also important for those of us who are here and who hope to remain to note that at the same time he was an extraordinary populist in the sense that he never forgot that in a democracy it is essential to maintain the closest possible rapport with the ordinary citizen. He did not forget this at any point in his political life. He was also a notable, tough-minded fighter both against his enemies on the other side of the House and, from time to time, as his colleagues will recall, within his own party when he thought a battle was in order. This, too, is something all of us in political life can learn from the memory of John Diefenbaker-that he fought for what he believed in.
He was a man who had an extraordinary sense that Canada is much more than merely the sum of its regional parts. Although he was not always-perhaps I understate it-precise in his vision of what constituted a greater Canada, there can be no doubt that no Canadian was ever left in any question about his own very real passion on that important subject.
[ Translation]
Finally, Mr. Diefenbaker was the first head of government who was of neither British nor French extraction. This fact is very important because, like many Canadians, his ancestors came from another part of the world and they played a very important role in the development of our country.

John Diefenbaker will be remembered and missed by Canadians in every part of our land.


Mr. Adrien Lambert (Bellechasse):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to join with the head of the government, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Trudeau), as well as with the Leader of the New Democratic Party (Mr. Broadbent) in paying tribute to this great Canadian. My leader, the hon. member for Beauce (Mr. Roy), would have liked very much to do it himself, but being a newcomer to this House he did not have the privilege to know as well as I did this great Canadian, Mr. John G. Diefenbaker. It is therefore a great honour for me to pay a posthumous tribute to this great Canadian.
I had the pleasure of meeting him in Quebec City on one of his visits there as a member of Parliament. He gave a lecture at the Chateau Frontenac and as it was open to the public, I went to hear him. I was curious to meet this fellow, if I may use this expression with reference to him, who had a bad reputation in the province of Quebec. He was reported to be hostile to French Canadians. Later on, after getting acquainted with his views and his intentions, I soon realized that this Canadian loved his country, every part of his country.
He was defeated several times prior to being elected on March 26, 1940. That shows that he was a great fighter. Some of us were defeated more than once before being elected. That does not make us any the worse for it, but it does give us many more ideas and more determination to keep on forging ahead.
Mr. Speaker, for 11 years I had the good fortune of knowing him, as we all did, at least those of us who spent those 11 years here and, as the Leader of the Opposition said a while ago, his repartees afforded us truly enjoyable moments even while working hard in this Parliament and fighting for our respective stands. I should like to remind the House that it was under his administration that we were given simultaneous interpretation, a means of unity in this country. I consider it an essential tool in drawing us all closer to one another. I wanted to stress that.
I should also like to remind this House that he set an excellent example by his attendance in this House. When he was in top shape, he came to the House regularly, taking part in the debates and respecting the opinions of others while fighting very courageously for all of his own.
I remember, among other things, that he occasionally held views that differed from those of the members of his own party but that, because of his convictions, he defended his own.
He loved Parliament and he used to call it "this democratic institution". I think that taking our inspiration from his convictions and his courage, we should love this institution and work together at giving our country the best administration possible. On behalf of my party, I should like to extend my sincere condolences to his family. We shall long keep his memory.
October 9, 1979


ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF C. B. KOESTER, ESQUIRE, AS CLERK
Mr. Speaker:: I have the honour to inform the House that the governor in council has appointed Charles Beverley Koest-er, Esquire, C.D., M.A., Ph.D., as Clerk of the House of Commons in the place of Alistair Fraser, B.A., LL.B., resigned.
May I borrow just a moment from the House at this juncture to say two things. First, it is self-evident that no Speaker can survive without the constant counsel, advice, support and assistance of the Clerk of the House of Commons. In all of the Speaker's responsibilities, some of which are very visible in the chamber and many of which are lesser known in administrative capacities, in the direction of the House of Commons personnel and organizations and things of that sort, in every respect a Speaker is lost without the constant support and advice on procedural matters, administrative matters and in every way of the Clerk of the House of Commons.
Having worked with Dr. Koester, I have every confidence that we are in the best possible hands at this moment, and I look forward to his very wise and already demonstrated able counsel in assisting me through the years to come.
May I also say that since I have been the Speaker of this House, and for some time prior to that, I and predecessors of mine were the beneficiairies of the excellent counsel and advice of Mr. Alistair Fraser, who distinguished himself as Clerk of the House of Commons and, finally, just as he was leaving office, I think put a fitting stroke into the history book of our procedures and practices by being a co-editor and co-author of the most recent revision of Beauchesne's parliamentary procedures. It is an excellent work and stands as a tribute to him.
I felt at this moment as we change Clerks of the House of Commons that the House would want to join me in paying tribute to Alistair Fraser for all of his great years of excellent and faithful service to the House of Commons, and at the same time wish Dr. Koester, the new Clerk of the House of Commons, the same kind of success with which Mr. Fraser distinguished himself.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


APPOINTMENT OF ALISTAIR FRASER, ESQUIRE, AS HONORARY OFFICER
Charles Joseph Clark: Mr. Speaker, I naturally want to join in your remarks of tribute not only to Alistair Fraser but also to Dr. Koester, with whom we look forward-and I know I speak on behalf of all members of the House in saying this-to working very closely in ensuring that this House of Commons continues to be an effective and respected institution in the country.
Alistair Fraser, Esq.
I think it is appropriate that we take a moment now to say a few words in tribute to the outstanding service over 12 years of Alistair Fraser as Clerk of the House of Commons. I pronounce that word differently than others do for reasons Your Honour will understand.
Each one of us, whenever we came here, who had the opportunity, to serve with Mr. Fraser have cause to regret his resignation, because he has been not only attentive to his duties but tireless in the discharge of those duties toward all members of the House of Commons.
[ Translation]
He is responsible to a large extent for the structure of the House of Commons as we know it today. Moreover, he looked after programs for parliamentary interns, he extended more facilities to members, he arranged for the broadcasting of our debates, he supervised major changes to the Standing Orders and participated in the drafting of the new edition of Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules and Forms, which will be for us a valuable guide for many years.

I want also to express my personal recognition of his courtesy and his unfailing attention to all matters on which I have consulted him over my years in the House.
It is my privilege to propose the following resolution, which I am sure will meet with the unanimous approval of all members of this House. I move, seconded by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Trudeau):
That this House, desiring to record its deep appreciation of the distinguished and faithful service of Alistair Fraser, Esquire, B.A., LL.B., as Clerk of the House of Commons, designate him an honorary officer of the House of Commons with an entree to the chamber and a seat at the Table on ceremonial
occasions.


Mr. Speaker:: The House has heard the motion moved by the Right Hon. Prime Minister (Mr. Clark), seconded by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Trudeau). Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the said motion?


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: Mr. Speaker, in seconding the motion, we in this party would also like to offer our best wishes and co-operation to the recently appointed Clerk of the House of Commons, Dr. Koester. He is, of course, no stranger to those who have already served in this chamber. We have great respect for his background as a scholar and a former clerk of the Saskatchewan legislature. We welcome him to this important position and I am sure all members of the House join me in looking forward to his friendship and guidance for many sessions to come.
However, today, much as the Prime Minister (Mr. Clark) has done, I want on behalf of our party to say farewell to another good friend of this House, Mr. Alistair Fraser, who retired as Clerk of the House a few weeks ago.

When paying homage to someone, one often speaks of "selfless devotion". That expression has been used so often as

October 9, 1979
Alistair Fraser, Esq.
to become almost meaningless. Yet I believe it to be an accurate description of the way in which Mr. Fraser served the House of Commons as an institution and its members as individuals. He has indeed shown selfless devotion to a task whose origin dates back to the British Parliament at the beginning of the fourteenth century.

Those who accept the position of Clerk of the House of Commons are not allowed to display the range of opinions and emotions which so delight the heart of a politician. Clerks are not allowed to be cantankerous, exasperated or belittling. Rather, they are teachers, conciliators and friends. They do not think of self but bend their will and their stamina to making the House of Commons work. They help each member, regardless of seniority or status, to fit his own aims and responsibilities within the parliamentary framework, bound as it is by long tradition and a maze of complicated rules and procedures.

Mr. Speaker, the description 1 have just given is, in fact, a portrait of Mr. Fraser. In 12 years, he himself became an institution in this House. Apart from the pressures inherent in his position, he was in a sense the key to some revolutionary changes which took place in the workings of the House of Commons and the services to its members. What comes to mind in particular is the creation of the parliamentary interns group, which benefited all parties, the growth in committee staff, the reorganization of the role of the pages of this House, who serve us all, the implementation of the broadcasting service through which our proceedings are broadcast live to the Canadian public.

Mr. Fraser takes with him a unique background and a parliamentary insight which I hope, indeed urge, that he share with others in the productive years which lie ahead of him. He also takes with him the gratitude and affection of members of the House.
I am delighted to second the motion moved by the Prime Minister that Mr. Fraser become an honorary officer of this House, with the hope that he will become a frequent visitor.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


Mr. Stanley Knowles (Winnipeg North Centre):: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the New Democratic Party-and I speak also in a personal sense as one who has known Alistair Fraser for many years-I should like to indicate our wholehearted support of the motion that has been moved by the Prime Minister (Mr. Clark) and seconded by the Deader of the Opposition (Mr. Trudeau). Like each of them, I should like to take a moment first to say that we, too, welcome most warmly the appointment of Dr. Koester as Clerk of the House of Commons. We are already aware of his efficiency and his ability and we look forward to the years when he will be our man at the Table.
With respect to Alistair Fraser, I may say that I am one of those in the House who remembers Beauchesne not just as a book but as a human being.


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh!


An hon. Member:: And not just a spirit.


Stanley Howard Knowles: Dr. Arthur Beauchesne was Clerk of the House of Commons when I came here. He was succeeded later by Mr. Leon Raymond, and both of them served this chamber exceedingly well. They had distinguished careers in that high office, but I am one who can say that Alistair Fraser measured up to the standards that they set.
Reference has already been made to the tremendous amount of expansion and development which has taken place during the past 12 years. This made being Clerk a different job than it had been in earlier times, and I say that this House is doing itself proud to take this moment to pay tribute to the work of Alistair Fraser. We found him in our midst to be one who was extremely friendly to all of us. We found him to be impartial and helpful in the advice that he gave to us as members, and I believe that the same could be said with regard to the advice he gave to the Chair. We also found him to be efficient in the conduct of the House of Commons. We are pleased to give to him the same honour that was given to the previous Clerks whom I mentioned by making him an honorary officer of this House. He is a young man, he has a career ahead of him, 1 am sure, and we wish him well in that career and happiness for many years.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


Joseph Adrien Henri Lambert: Mr. Speaker, personally and on behalf of my party I am happy to second the motion of the right hon. Prime Minister (Mr. Clark) proposing that the new Clerk of the House of Commons be Dr. Koester. There is no doubt in our minds that he will work in co-operation with you, Mr. Speaker, and with each hon. member of the House. I have had the pleasure of knowing him for a few years and I am sure he will fulfil his duties with great competence and dedication to all members of the House.
As for Mr. Fraser, I welcome the motion proposing that he be made an honorary officer of the House of Commons. I have also had the pleasure of working with him for 11 years and he gave me judicious advice. Of course, any newly-elected member has a whole lot to learn. Occasionally, conflicts do arise and hon. members take the advice of the people we usually call the people at the Table who are the link between them and the Speaker. Mr. Fraser fulfilled his duties with know-how, integrity and impartiality. 1 am pleased, therefore, to say these things about him and to thank him for all the help he gave me and my party and which allowed us to better serve our country, to be more efficient in the House and, finally, to be good Canadians. All hon. members are in favour of this

October 9, 1979

motion; that is natural. I am sure that we will always remember Mr. Fraser in our deliberations.


Hon. Allan J. MacEachen (Cape Breton Highlands-Canso):: Mr. Speaker, I have one or two reasons for saying a word about this very felicitous motion proposed by the Prime Minister (Mr. Clark), not only because 1 have been a friend of Mr. Fraser for many years but also because of the association that the Fraser family has had with the province of Nova Scotia. His father served as Lieutenant Governor of Nova Scotia for one term and his grandfather before his father had the same honour, and I have not lost hope that Alistair Fraser, whom we are honouring today, may follow in that tradition.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


Allan Joseph MacEachen: In light of the warm praise given by the Prime Minister, maybe it will happen earlier than I had expected.
Of course, Alistair gave outstanding service to the House of Commons and he deserves the rest he is now receiving in a very beautiful part of Canada, in the town of Guysborough, in the constituency of Cape Breton Highlands-Canso. After having lived in Ottawa for so many years, I have no hesitation in saying that Alistair has definitely improved his residential status.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.

[Stage Direction]
Right Hon. Joe Clark (Prime Minister) presented the following message for His Excellency the Governor General of Canada:
His Excellency the Governor General of Canada transmits to the House of Commons a certified copy of an approved order in council appointing the Hon. Walter Baker, President of the Queen's Privy Council and Minister of National Revenue, the Hon. Roch La Salle, Minister of Supply and Services, the Hon. Sinclair Stevens, President of the Treasury Board, and the Hon. Perrin Beatty, Minister of State (Treasury Board), to act with the Speaker of the House of Commons as commissioners for the purposes and under the provisions of chapter H-9 of the Revised Statutes of Canada entitled: An act respecting the House of Commons.

STANDING COMMITTEES Right Hon. Joe Clark (Prime Minister) moved:
That a committee be appointed to prepare and report, in accordance with Standing Order 65, lists of members to compose the standing and standing joint committees of this House; that the committee be composed of Messrs. Baker (Nepean-Carleton), Kempling, Friesen, MacEachen, Lefebvre and Knowles, and that the provisions of Standing Order 65 (1) be suspended in relation to the number of members on the said committee.
Standing Committees
Fabien Roy: Mr. Speaker, 1 notice that you referred to Standing Order 65, which states:
65.(1) At the commencement of the first session of each Parliament, a striking committee, consisting of seven members, shall be appointed-
If I understand correctly, you have mentioned six members. However, this Standing Order does not stipulate at most seven members, but rather the following:
-consisting of seven members, shall be appointed, whose duty it shall be to prepare and report, within the first ten sitting days after its appointment, lists of members to compose the following standing committees of the House.
Mr. Speaker, I would like you to note that three members, that is the first three members named, belong to the government party. Two are members of the official opposition party and one of the New Democratic Party. There obviously remains one member to be appointed and since our party has always been certain that one of its members would sit on this committee, Mr. Speaker, with your consent, I would like to move the following amendment.


Some hon. Members:: Janelle! Janelle!


An hon. Member:: Order.


Fabien Roy: Mr. Speaker, this is quite in order as it concerns a motion now before the House. The Standing Orders provide that a motion can be moved. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I would move:
That the seventh member of that committee be the hon. member for Belle-chasse (Mr. Lambert).
In making this suggestion, Mr. Speaker, I would like to remind hon. members that some of my new colleagues in this House are very prone to laughter. I would like to tell them this and remind them quite simply that we have-


Some hon. Members:: Order.


Fabien Roy: Mr. Speaker, I would like to give my reason for moving this amendment. I would also like to remind my colleagues in this House that we got a higher percentage of voters-I can see that it bothers some-than the total number of voters who went to the polls in Nova Scotia and the number of people who voted in New Brunswick. Our party got a higher number of votes than the total number of voters in six provinces of Canada.
Nevertheless, I think that in all fairness it is quite simply a matter of principle, of equity, that our party should have a member on that committee to be appointed as you suggested under the terms of Standing Order 65, which calls for a committee of seven members.


Mr. Speaker:: Order. I have to have the written motion before determining whether or not it is in order.

October 9, 1979
Standing Committees
Order. There is no reason not to accept the motion under our procedures. So I must rule the motion in order under our procedure.
I have here the amendment moved by the hon. member for Beauce (Mr. Roy) which is as follows:
Mr. Roy (Beauce), seconded by Mr. Lambert (Bellechasse), moved:
That the motion be amended by adding the name of Mr. Adrien Lambert (Bellechasse) as member of the striking committee under Standing Order 65.
The question, therefore, is on the amendment. The House has heard the amendment. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the said amendment?


Some hon. Members:: No.


Allan Joseph MacEachen: Mr. Speaker, the amendment which has been made to the main motion may appear to be very routine and very simple on the surface, but it must be remembered that this is not a routine motion as indicated by the comments of the hon. member for Beauce (Mr. Roy) and his arguments in support of including a member of the Social Credit group as part of the striking committee.
The motion by the Prime Minister (Mr. Clark) says something very clearly about the political composition of the House of Commons, and particularly about the rights which each element of that composition may enjoy. I do not believe it was an accident or an oversight that the Prime Minister did not include in his motion a member of the Social Credit group.
Here, of course, I want to say that the member proposed to be added in the person of the hon. member for Bellechasse (Mr. Lambert) is a friend of all of us and has participated very effectively in the debates of the House. But we are not at the present time dealing with the status of the hon. member for Bellechasse; we are dealing with what status the members of the Social Credit group, now numbering five, will enjoy in the Thirty-first Parliament of Canada.
It is obvious that if there had been included in the motion a member of the Social Credit group, that would carry with it the implication that in the House of Commons, if it did approve that motion, that group would enjoy a status, particularly the leader of that group, equivalent in standing to that of the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.Trudeau) and the Leader of the New Democratic Party.
We do not, of course, accept the proposition that a spokesman of the Social Credit group should enjoy the same privileges and rights traditionally accorded the Leader of the Opposition and the Leader of the New Democratic Party. It is not a question of denying members of the Social Credit party their rights as members of Parliament. Each of us would fight very energetically to maintain the rights which each member of the House of Commons enjoys as a member, namely, to participate in debates, to ask questions and so on. All members

will enjoy those rights. We have reservations as to whether, with the acceptance of this motion, a spokesman, for example, for the Social Credit group would have the same opportunity following ministerial statements on motions as would the Leader of the Opposition and the Leader of the New Democratic Party.
It is a fact that the matter came before the House in February, 1966, on a point of order raised by the then hon. member for Cumberland who questioned the appropriateness of members of the Ralliement Creditiste and the Social Credit party being permitted by the Speaker to comment on ministerial statements. The Speaker at that time made a ruling which has been in existence since then.
I should, however, underline the fact that the House itself has never had an opportunity to give an expression of opinion on a matter of this kind. This motion, and particularly the amendment, gives the House and each member the opportunity to express an opinion on the appropriateness of a group of five members, in this case the Social Credit group, having the full status of other parties in respect of (a) the question period and (b) statements on motions in response to ministerial statements. We believe that we cannot extend that unqualified right in the present circumstances, and that is why we agree with the Prime Minister in not including a member of the Social Credit group as a member of the striking committee. To do so would be to carry with it the implications I have already described.
For those reasons, Mr. Speaker, and in an effort to provide the sense of the House, and certainly the sense of this group, we propose to vote against the amendment and to vote for the main motion proposed by the Prime Minister.


Stanley Howard Knowles: Mr. Speaker, may I say on behalf of the New Democratic Party that we regard this amendment as unnecessary, to put it in technical terms. I want also to say that we regret that it has been presented, and I shall indicate what I mean by that in a moment.
First, when I say that we regard the amendment as unnecessary, 1 would point out that the striking committee itself really has a very routine job. Sometimes in a whole Parliament it meets only two or three times. What it does is receive the lists from the various parties as to the persons to be put on the standing committees, and then in the name of the striking committee that report is presented to the House and adopted and the memberships are confirmed.
It is not a matter of great importance to be on the striking committee but, as has been indicated by the hon. member for Cape Breton Highlands-Canso (Mr. MacEaehen), there is a principle involved that we have to consider.
The other reason I give for saying it is not necessary to have every group of members in this House represented on the committee is that on former occasions there have been times when various parties, either the Social Credit party or my party, were not on the committee. A number of years ago, for example, when our two parties were about the same size, in
October 9, 1979

fact for quite a number of years, we had a member on the striking committee one year and they had a member the next, and the member who was there saw to it that the other party got its representation on committees. It is not very important to be there, and hon. members of the Social Credit group can rest assured that they will get just as many committee positions without being represented there as they would by being represented. In fact, they might even get more as we might feel we have to show some generosity.
Therefore, this is not an issue, it seems to me, that should engage the House for any length of time, and certainly should not engage the House for the time it would take to have a division on this motion. But, as the hon. member for Cape Breton Highlands-Canso has pointed out, for the House to take a decision on this motion, whether it is a voice vote or a recorded division, would seem to involve the issue as to whether five members constitute a party for the purpose of a number of things.
It is my view, and I have stated it at the meetings of representatives of all the parties which have been held, that there are several such issues and that most of them should really be decided by Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker was helpful in resolving the question of where the various parties should sit in the House, and I think that it was appropriate that he gave his advice on that issue. The next important issue will be time allotted in the question period, and it is important to opposition parties that they know whether a third opposition party has the kind of status that entitles it to lead off questions, that entitles it to questions every day even though it has only five members. In my view it is something that ought to be decided by you, sir.
If we take a vote today, and the consensus seems to be that this motion will be defeated, then you, sir, will have the decision of the House that on the first occasion when the issue was raised it was felt that we should not give to five members the status of a party.
As the House leader for the official opposition pointed out, we are here to defend each other's rights as individuals to speak, to ask questions and to take part in debate. But there are certain special advantages which go with party status which are at issue. We have provision in the statute on pay allotted to members of the House which indicates that it takes 12 members to get extra pay for the leader of any small party. There is no debate about that. The Social Credit party does not have 12 members and, therefore, its leader does not get the extra pay. That is all that section says. While it has come to be thought that 12 members were required for party status, we over-stepped it when the party had only 11 members last time. Now they are down to five. What happens when it gets down to four, three or two? Can a party that has used a name in an election come here and claim all the advantages that go with party status regardless of how small it is?
Frankly, sir, I am raising these questions without feeling that it is my right to give the answers. I believe that the Chair
Standing Committees
should give the answers, especially on such things as rights in the question period, statements on motions and so on. On the question of funds for research, that is up to the commissioners of internal economy. I would think that the part of wisdom would be, in so far as my friends across the way are concerned, not to ask for a vote in this House today, because if we must vote the House will be put in the position of saying no on the first formal occasion that presented itself with regard to five members being treated as though they were a party.
Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I have to join, on behalf of my colleagues, with the House leader for the official opposition in saying that if this question is to be put to a vote we shall oppose the amendment, but that we shall support the motion presented by the Prime Minister (Mr. Clark), which was what we had agreed upon at a meeting of House leaders. The rights of my honourable friends as individual members we shall defend, but party status is something else. That is our position.


Joseph Adrien Henri Lambert: Mr. Speaker, first 1 would like to make a correction. When you read the motion in amendment, you indicated it was seconded by the hon. member for Bellechasse, although it is stated on the sheet the motion is seconded by the hon. member for Rimouski (Mr. Allard). I would like this to be recorded accordingly in Hansard. It would be somewhat awkward for a member to propose himself.


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. The hon. member for Bellechasse (Mr. Lambert) is quite right. It is indeed specified that the motion is seconded by the hon. member for Rimouski (Mr. Allard).


Joseph Adrien Henri Lambert: Mr. Speaker, 1 listened very closely to the two speakers who spoke before me. The hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre (Mr. Knowles) stated at the very beginning of his remarks this was a committee of little significance and the House should not be asked to decide on such a trifle. This is a committee that meets only two or three times in the course of a session. But if indeed the issue is of so little significance, it follows in my view that we should not be refused representation on that committee. This is simple logic. A member on that striking committee, we always had one in the past and we did not fare any worse.
I understand the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre. He is a personal friend, and he always takes care in this House to defend the rights of hon. members, whoever they may be. Indeed I remember that at one time he supported one of my motions so that my party or myself could discharge our duties.
On the issue of my party's status, 1 grudgingly acknowledge the fact that we are a minority party. But looking at the representation in this House, every party is a minority party. Therefore we are no exception to the rule. It depends on the number of persons. We are all minority parties.

October 9, 1979
Standing Committees
Moreover, it is quite true that the status of a party as far as the allowances payable to the leader of a party are concerned-and the Elouse itself passed the legislation and decided that to be entitled to a special allowance, the leader should have at least 11 members in his group excluding himself; that is, 12. However, I feel that it has nothing to do with our duties in the House as a recognized, registered national party.
It is in such capacity, Mr. Speaker, that we are asking to be allowed to name a representative to that committee. It would not hurt anyone, because we all agree that the matter is unimportant. We would then continue to work and bring our contribution to that committee and, strictly speaking, I do not think that it would hurt anyone.
Now, Mr. Speaker, if we consider that the motion is a basic one which could affect the status of our party, I think that we are going beyond the scope of the proposed amendment. In my opinion, the question should not even be raised. It is a mere technical matter and of course when we disagree, the question is then put. Such is democracy. This is why an election is held, because we do not share the same views.
When the members of this House disagree, they ask, of course, that the question be put. If we are not allowed to have a representative on that striking committee, the matter will be settled. As for other issues which could arise later, they will be dealt with in due course.
Mr. Speaker, 1 leave it to you to decide whether the motion is really in order and if we should deal with it right now or if you would rather wait to make a decision. We leave it to your discretion.


Hon. Walter Baker (President of the Privy Council and Minister of National Revenue):: Mr. Speaker, I do not intend to prolong the discussion in the House, but 1 do say that there is here an important matter of principle at stake. The original motion was framed with that in mind. The hon. member for Cape Breton Highlands-Canso (Mr. MacEachen) and the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre (Mr. Knowles) have set out, I believe, the principles quite clearly. They do not need to be repeated. In that sense it is clear, as the government House leader, that I ought to indicate to the House that, based on the principle that is involved, we do not intend to support the amendment.


Mr. Speaker:: The question is on the amendment to the main motion. All those in favour of the amendment, please say yea. [DOT]


Some hon. Members:: Yea.


Mr. Speaker:: All those opposed, please say nay.


Some hon. Members:: Nay.


Mr. Speaker:: In my opinion, the nays have it. And more than five members having risen:


Mr. Speaker:: Call	in the members.
The House divided on the amendme	
which was negatived on the following d
Division No.
 YEAS Messrs.	
Allard	Lambert
Caouette	(Bellechasse)
Gauthier (Roberval)	Peters
 NAYS Messrs.
Alexander	Dionne
Andre	(Northumberland-
(Calgary Centre)	Miramichi)
Appolloni	Domm
(Mrs.)	Duclos
Atkey	Dupont
Axworthy	Duquet
Baker	Elliott
(Nepean-Carleton)	Ellis
Beattie	Elzinga
(Hamilton Mountain)	Epp
Beatty	Evans
(Wellington-Dufferin-Simcoe) Faour	
Begin (Miss)	Fennell
Benjamin	Ferguson
Berger	Fish
Binks	Fleming
Blailde	Flis
Blais	Forres tall
Blaker	Foster
Blenkarn	Fox
Bocks tael	Fraleigh
Bosley	Fraser
Bradley	Fretz
Breau	Friesen
Brisco	Froese
Broadbent	Fulton
Bujold	Gamble
Bussieres	Gass
Caccia	Gauthier
Cameron	(Ottawa-Vanier)
Campbell	Gendron
(Sarnia)	Gilchrist
Chenier	Gourd
Chretien	Grafftey
Clark	Graham
(Yellowhead)	Gray
Clarke	Greenaway
(Vancouver Quadra)	Guay
Comtois	Guilbault
Cook	Gurbin
Cooper	Gustafson
Corbett	Haliburton
Corbin	Halliday
Corriveau	Hamilton
Cossitt	(Qu 'Appelle- M oose
Cousineau	Mountain)
Crombie	Hamilton
Crosbie	(Swift Current-Maple
(St. John's West)	Creek)
Crosby	Hargrave
(Halifax West)	Harquail
Crouse	Hawkes
Cyr	Hees
Darling	Herbert
Daudiin	Hervieux-Payette (Mrs.)
Dawson	Higson
De Bane	Hnatyshyn
de Corneille	Hogan
de Jong	Holmes
Demers	Hopkins
Deniger	Howie
Desmarais	Huntington
Dick	Isabelle
Dinsdale	Ittinuar
Dion	Jarvis
(Portneuf)	(Willowdale)
Dionne	Jarvis
(Chicoutimi)	(Perth)
Roy
(Beauce)-6.
Jewett (Miss)
Johnston
Jupp
Kaplan
Kempling
Kilgour
Killens (Mrs.)
King
Knowles
Korchinski
Kushner
Lachance
Lajoie
Lalonde
Lambert
(Edmonton West)
Lane
Lapierre
Lapointe
La Salle
Lawrence
LeBlanc
Leduc
Lefebvre
Lessard
Lewis
Loiseile
Lumley
MacDonald
(Egmont)
MacDonald (Miss)
(Kingston and the Islands) MacDonald
(Cardigan)
MacEachen
MacKay
MacLaren
MacLellan
Malepart
Malone
Maltais
Marceau
Masse
Mayer
Mazankowski
McCain
McCauley
McCrossan
McCuish
McDermid
McGrath
McKenzie
McKinley
McKinnon
McKnight
McLean
McMillan
McRae
Miller
Mitchell (Mrs.)
Munro
(Esquimalt-Saanich)
Munro
(Hamilton East)
Murphy
Murta
Neil
Nicholson (Miss)
Nickerson
October 9, 1979

The Address-Mr. Fretz
	Messrs.	
Nielsen	Ritchie	TaylorNowlan	(York East)	(Cowichan-Malahat-Nylander	Robinson	The Islands)Oberle	(Burnaby)	TaylorOgle	Robinson	(Bow River)Olivier	(Etobicoke-Lakeshore)	TessierOstiguy	Roche	ThackerOuellet	Rodriguez	ThomsonPaproski	Rompkey	TousignantParent	Rose	TowersPatterson	Rossi	TrudeauPelletier	Sargeant	TurnerPenner	SauvS (Mrs.)	VankoughnetPepin	Savard	VeillettePhillips	Schellenberger	WaddellPinard	Scott	WakimPortelance	(Hamilton-Wentworth)	WhelanPrud'homme	Scott	WhittakerRae	(V ictoria- Hal i bu r t on)	WightmanReid	Siddon	Wilson(St. Catharines)	Speyer	WiseReimer	Stevens	WoolliamsRichardson	Stewart	Yanakis(Humboldt-Lake Centre)	Stollery	Yurko-247.Richardson	Stratas (Mrs.)	(Beaches)	Symes	Ritchie	Tardif	(Dauphin)	
That Fred McCain, Esquire, member for the electoral district of Carleton-Charlotte, be appointed Deputy Chairman of Committees of the Whole House.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.

Charles Joseph Clark: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the President of the Privy Council (Mr. Baker):
That William C. Scott, Esquire, member for the electoral district of Victoria-Haliburton, be appointed Assistant Deputy Chairman of Committees of the Whole House.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.

Hon. Sinclair Stevens (President of the Treasury Board):: Mr. Speaker, I move, in accordance with Standing Order 58:
That this House at its next sitting consider the business of supply.
Motion agreed to.


Mr. Speaker:: I declare the amendment lost.

The question is on the motion. The House has heard the terms of the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the said motion?


Some hon. Members:: Agreed.


Some hon. Members:: On division.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.

Charles Joseph Clark: Mr. Speaker, 1 move, seconded by the right hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Trudeau):
That Gerald Laniel, Esquire, member for the electoral district of Beauharnois-Salaberry, be appointed Chairman of Committees of the Whole House.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.

Charles Joseph Clark: Mr. Speaker, 1 move, seconded by the President of the Privy Council (Mr. Baker):


SPEECH FROM THE THRONE
[Stage Direction]
The House proceeded to the consideration of the speech delivered by His Excellency the Governor General.
Mr. Girve Fretz (Erie):: Mr. Speaker, before I begin I would like to take the time to thank the Prime Minister (Mr. Clark) and his cabinet for the confidence they have placed in me. It is a singular honour and one that is most appreciated, not only by myself but by the constituents of my riding. To have one's maiden speech move the Address in Reply is a privilege that 1 will remember and treasure all my days.
I would also like to congratulate you, Mr. Speaker, on your re-election to that position which you so ably held in the past and which, I am sure, you will continue to fill with distinction.
I wish you every success in your duties and envy you not at all.
Before I go on, it is appropriate to pause and remember a person who is not here, the late John George Diefenbaker. Mr. Diefenbaker, as he himself said, was always a "House of Commons man". He devoted his life and efforts on behalf of the Canadian people to this great institution of Parliament, and we are saddened and diminished by his loss. Those of us who are new members will especially miss the wisdom and counsel he so freely gave. Mr. Diefenbaker's final hours were spent preparing himself for this session of Parliament, a session he was particularly looking forward to as our party had been given the mandate to govern by the people of Canada. We shall take up that mandate and govern in the way that Mr. Diefenbaker would have wished, with concern for the rights of

October 9, 1979
The Address-Mr. Fretz
the individual Canadian. The emphasis of government will return to the recognition and reaffirmation of the fact that individual rights are the cornerstone of our democracy.
In my opening remarks, Mr. Speaker, I made mention of the riding of Erie, the constituency 1 am pleased and honoured to represent here today. In the tradition of maiden speeches, it is my pleasant task to acquaint the members of the House with Erie riding.
As is obvious from the name, we are situated on one of the greatest of the Great Lakes, Lake Erie. Our eastern boundary is defined by the Niagara River which has its beginnings here, as does much of the history of early Canada. Many battles of the war of 1812 took place on the soil of what is now Erie riding. Our early settlers had their numbers swelled by United Empire Loyalists and my own forebears came to this region in 1800.
Not only has the area been blessed with tremendous beauty and historical significance, but we are justly famous for our fresh produce, abundant orchards, and flavourful vineyards. Our fertile soil and temperate climate make the Niagara region one of the best grape growing regions in the world, and form the basis of Canada's wine industry. 1 am sure that yesterday as we celebrated Thanksgiving many of us had turkey and chicken from the riding of Erie.
We also share the Niagara River with the United States and have one of the gateways between that great country and ours. Over 150 years of friendship with the United States are epitomized by the bridge that links our two nations, the Peace Bridge. Being on an international boundary has also been a great advantage in teaching our citizens that great Canadian pastime-smuggling.
Proximity to our American neighbours and the lush beauty of our region have made the Niagara peninsula and Erie riding a natural gathering place for many hundreds of thousands of tourists each year. Tourism plays a major role in the economy of Erie as, in fact, it does in all Canada. The announcement by the Prime Minister of a national tourism strategy is indeed a most welcome proposal.
One of the prominent man-made features of Erie is the Welland Canal, which is 27 miles long, an integral part of the St. Lawrence Seaway and an important facet of our regional economy. Studies by the Niagara regional chamber of commerce have shown that the economic impact of the Welland Canal and the Canadian Great Lakes shipping industry is growing steadily with more than $180 million flowing into the Niagara region annually. The St. Lawrence Seaway Authority alone provides more than 650 jobs while over 3,000 local residents find employment on the ships themselves. The operation of the canal, movement of cargo and construction and repair of ships remain the dominant part of the industry's effect on my riding, yet numerous smaller companies depend on ships and shipping for their existence. These suppliers and contractors provide services essential to the maintenance and operation of the 170 Canadian flag vessels which regularly use

the Welland Canal. It is in this context that I was most pleased to learn of the Prime Minister's intention to set up a seaway advisory council to maintain and improve the viability of this industry which is so important to our region and to the whole country.
The people of Erie riding reflect in both their ethnic makeup and their geographical distribution a common bond with the rest of Canada. The urban areas of Erie are close to the American border while the agricultural and less populated areas are to the north. Aside from this physical similarity to Canada as a whole, the people of Erie through their background and heritage echo the history of our great land. Representatives of our two founding nations dwell here, as do representatives of other nations from all around the world. These people have seen the promise that is Canada and have moved here to realize that promise. Whatever reasons have impelled them to come to Canada, leaving their native lands, whether flight from adversity or a longing for freedom or a sense of adventure, these new Canadians have flocked in their thousands over the years to find that dream, to slake their spirit of adventure, to live in freedom. And they have made Canada, including Erie riding, what it is today, a vibrant, forward-looking land that has taken the strands of diverse experience and culture and woven them into a new, stronger entity, a land and people who are more than the sum of their parts, a land and people who have prospered by recognizing and capitalizing upon their differences. Erie is the living proof that diversity is an asset and I am sure its people join with me in applauding the Prime Minister on his appreciation of that fact. Our multicultural heritage is one of Canada's greatest resources.
In Erie, the people reflect traditional values which were perhaps overlooked by the previous administration. They believe that initiative should be encouraged and rewarded, that a good day's work deserves fair compensation, that individuals should take responsibility for their own lives and that government should impose as little as possible upon the governed. What is good for the individual is good for the country. We can regain our independence. We can depend upon ourselves. We will cease to turn to Big Daddy to solve our problems with the big dollar which inevitably leads to the big deficit. It is a truism to say that one best appreciates something one has worked for-that if the object of desire is given on a silver platter, it is not valued as highly. There is a vast, untapped resource in Canada, with more good ideas than any army of well-paid bureaucrats could produce. It stands to reason that 22 million people will have more ideas and be better in tune with their own needs than self-appointed experts in Ottawa.
The volunteer sector is the perfect expression of a nation's responsibility to itself. Witness the groundswell of support and sympathy for the Indo-Chinese refugees; people organized themselves, set up their own committees, found their own answers and are responding on a one to one level with each other and with those they have been moved to sponsor. Surely this is a more human and more humane way of dealing with each other-to remove the faceless interference from above
October 9, 1979

and to relate face to face. The Prime Minister's announced intention to set up a select committee to study volunteerism in Canada is therefore welcome.
It is my belief that one of the major challenges to be faced by the new government will be to get our economy moving again. Canada's potential is limitless. We have the people, we have the resources. What we need is the will. We need to restore our confidence in ourselves. These are qualities the present government will foster. Our government will be an example for Canadians to follow. It will not be a case of substituting "Do as I say" for "Do as 1 do . A promise was made to privatize certain Crown corporations. That promise will be kept and those corporations will be returned to the private sector where the profit motive is not an alien principle.
The greatest wish of most Canadians is to own their own homes. The promise was made that aid would be forthcoming so that for many this dream could become reality. That promise, too, has been kept.
The promise was made that no longer would civil servants or cabinet ministers be able to hide behind a web of secrecy; no longer could those in positions of influence escape responsibility for their actions and decisions. A freedom of information law is to be enacted as promised with an outside arbiter to decide disputed matters. This will make Parliament more accountable to the people and less a system of divine right of cabinet. Parliament will be strengthened and thus improved. The imperial cabinet will become a thing of the past and our government, by its solicitous attitude toward those who are disadvantaged, will also be an example to the people of Canada. In spite of our determination to improve our economy and to cut back government expenditure, we shall not practice restraint on the backs of those who are truly in need and who, by reason of disability, of age or traditional barriers, have been kept from realizing their full potential and denied the opportunity to benefit from the riches of Canada. We shall not forget or neglect these people.
Those of us who are strong can only be diminished if we do not give proper regard to those in our society who are less strong. For we have not forgotten that we are Progressive Conservatives, and our attitude to social programs and to those who will benefit from social programs will be enlightened and compassionate.
I have already said that indeed it is an honour to move the address in reply. It is also an honour and a privilege to be a member of a team which will have a positive impact on Canada.
I therefore move, seconded by the hon. member for Cardigan (Mr. MacDonald), that the following Address be presented to His Excellency the Governor General of Canada:
To His Excellency the Right Honourable Edward Richard Schreyer, Chancellor and Principal Companion of the Order of Canada, Chancellor and Commander of the Order of Military Merit, upon whom has been conferred the Canadian Forces' Decoration, Governor General and Commander-in-Chief of Canada.
May it please Your Excellency:
The Address-Mr. W. MacDonald
We, Her Majesty's most loyal and dutiful subjects, the House of Commons of Canada, in Parliament assembled, beg leave to offer our humble thanks to Your Excellency for the gracious speech which Your Excellency has addressed to both Houses of Parliament.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


Mr. Wilbur MacDonald (Cardigan):: Mr. Speaker, it is indeed an honour to be here on this occasion and to be afforded the opportunity to second the motion for the address in reply. I wish to thank the Prime Minister (Mr. Clark) and his cabinet for their courtesy in asking me to have this share in the opening of the Thirty-first Parliament. It is certainly an historic occasion for me, for my family and for the people of my constituency of Cardigan.
As we approach the dawn of the next decade this Parliament is confronted with challenging economic and social problems. The Speech from the Throne has indicated that this House will be asked to seek solutions to a wide variety of these. As I listened to the Speech from the Throne I could not help but realize that many subjects, such as fisheries, energy, transportation and regional economic expansion, are important to Canada as a whole but especially important to the constituency of Cardigan.
In area, Cardigan takes in the eastern part of Prince Edward Island, and all but one of its boundaries border on the sea. My constituents include farmers, fishermen, small business people, housewives, labourers, professional people, young and old alike, all hardworking Canadians with strong Christian values and a no-nonsense approach to their jobs.
As a farmer I share this no-nonsense approach to my job in Parliament. One of my tasks and, I suggest, one of the problems confronting this Parliament, will be to end the exodus of young rural Canadians from family farms. The family farm must remain the cornerstone of our agricultural industry in Canada. In this country and in my riding there are men and women willing to work long hours and a full week on their farms. All they ask is a fair return for their labour, fair prices for their produce and a chance to have their children follow in their footsteps.
However, if we continue to import food which our farmers could be producing economically and if we continue to let our small family farms slip needlessly into corporate hands, we will be undermining one of Canada's greatest strengths, its agricultural industry. We have the land. We now have the farmers. Let us see that they get fair prices for their products and a chance to pass their land on to their children. If this is done, we should never have a food crisis in this country, and we should be able to provide food to parts of the world which now have hungry and malnourished populations.
Another subject of special concern to my constituents is the need to create a fisheries policy which will permit fishermen to reap the full benefits of Canada's recently declared 200-mile limit. The key to this policy is intelligent management of the fishery resource. I believe that we in Prince Edward Island have a stake in the expansion of this important industry, and I am pleased that this Parliament will be working to create a

October 9, 1979
The Address-Mr. W. MacDonald
fisheries policy which will maintain Canada's position as the number one fishing country in the world. 1 look forward with great confidence to expansion of the fisheries industry and more year-round employment for our processors and fishermen.
I am also pleased that this House will be attempting to create a favourable business climate in Canada. This is important to all industries in Canada, but it is especially important to small business in this country. In my riding of Cardigan small businessmen include not just farmers and fishermen but also restaurant owners, tourism operators, small shop proprietors, and the list goes on. Not only are small businessmen the backbone of our economy but they also represent and embody the spirit of free enterprise which makes Canada great. It is important that this Parliament formulate policy which will permit businessmen to plan and to expand their operations.
Another important concern of small businessmen in my riding and, I am sure, in other rural parts of Canada is the need for improved transportation systems. If the potato, fishery and tourist industries of Prince Edward Island are to remain viable, our railway and ferry systems must be upgraded. I need not remind hon. members of this House that our railway system was originally planned by the Fathers of Confederation as a tool to assure equal development of Canada's regions. This development is not yet fully realized in Atlantic Canada. The railway is the most efficient means of transporting goods from our province and within our country, and it needs our attention.
We look to the development of alternate energy not only as a means of creating energy but also as a rejuvenation of the forestry industry in Prince Edward Island. An increase in harvesting of our forests, followed by an intensive reforestation program, will result in increased employment and a revitalization of the whole industry.
Finally, the subject of energy is especially important to my riding. My constituents are almost totally dependent on oil for energy and have the highest electricity rates in Canada. It is not important just that we find new sources of oil but equally important that we develop reusable sources of energy which will carry us into the next century. Efficient energy systems are the key to our economic well-being in the decade ahead, as they are to all Canadians. We in Prince Edward Island have the potential for many forms of alternate energy such as wind, solar and wood power. We all recognize that there is no simple solution to energy problems and that this has caused a great deal of concern to all Canadians. I believe that part of the solution lies in the alternate energy field.
We new members of this House, members of the new generation of members of Parliament, have each come as individual representatives of our ridings to this historic chamber to help bring leadership to this nation. We are all proud to be here, determined to continue the development of this country and determined to face the future with confidence. I sense that there is also a determination to keep this nation united and strong. I am sure that is shared by all in this chamber.
I sense also a determination to restructure some of the proceedings of this Parliament. We are not here for glory or honour alone. Neither are we here to waste our time or the time of this Parliament. We come to work with those who have been here before us so that together this Thirty-first Parliament can move forward, providing solutions to the problems which confront us, and as it moves into history we can all be justifiably proud that we were part of it.
I believe that individual Canadians everywhere look to this Parliament for leadership and a sense of direction so that together we can formulate policies to improve the economic, social and spiritual well-being of our citizens as we move forward into the next decade.
I wish to congratulate you, Mr. Speaker, on again being elected Speaker of the House. Your impartiality and guidance are well known to everyone. I wish to thank you for your kindness and patience, as well as to thank hon. members.
Therefore, it gives me great pleasure to second the Address in Reply to the Speech from the Throne moved by the hon. member for Erie (Mr. Fretz).


Mr. Speaker:: The House has heard the motion moved by the hon. member for Erie (Mr. Fretz) and seconded by the hon. member for Cardigan (Mr. MacDonald). Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the said motion?


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: Mr. Speaker, 1 move that the debate be now adjourned.


Mr. Speaker:: Is the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?


Some hon. Members:: Agreed.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.
Walter David Baker: Mr. Speaker, I move that this House do now adjourn.


Mr. Speaker:: The House has heard the motion moved by the hon. member for Nepean-Carleton (Mr. Baker). Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the said motion?


Some hon. Members:: Agreed.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.
Mr. Speaker:: Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 2 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 2(2).


[Stage Direction]
The House adjourned at 5.50 p.m.
[Stage Direction]
Wednesday, October 10, 1979