1975-01-22

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. May I inform the House of the appointment of Messrs. Reginald Boivin and Maxime Guitard to the position of third clerk assistant.

All hon. members are aware that Messrs. Boivin and Guitard have always carried out their duties most satisfactorily during the many years they have served with the House of Commons.

I am sure that to all hon. members the knowledge of these appointments will be of interest and satisfaction knowing, as hon. members do, the many years of faithful and devoted service that both of these distinguished gentlemen have given to the House of Commons. It is a great pleasure for me to be able to announce these appointments to the House at this time.


STATUS OF WOMEN
Right Hon. P. E. Trudeau (Prime Minister):: Mr. Speaker, as this session of parliament reconvenes, we are entering not only a new year-and I hope it will be a happy one for all hon. members-but a unique and special period, International Women's Year.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: International Women's Year, 1975, was proclaimed by the United Nations. It is a year which has three goals: peace, development and equality. Canada, as a member nation, has undertaken a substantial program of support for this special year, through legislation, through funding of groups and organizations, through the promotion of equality within federal government departments and agencies, and through the promotion of a national awareness of the current status of women.

One of the most evident means the government has at its disposal to improve the status of women is through legislation. Parliament is considering at this time an
omnibus bill on the status of women which aims at amending eight federal statutes. Thanks to this bill, the government will be able to eliminate sections which, in various statutes, discriminate against women. Other legislative amendments are also being considered: one of them will bring about the establishment of a federal commission of human rights.
We are very happy to have nine women sit with us in the House, an unprecedented number. Because of their sex, we are inclined to look upon these hon. members as official spokesmen on every topic related to the status of women, which is quite understandable. Yet, there are 264 hon. members altogether in Parliament, and each and every one of these men and women should lend an ear to the demands of women: do they not make up half of the electorate? The status of women is a national problem which must be of interest to all Canadian men and women.
Discrimination against women is in some ways comparable to discrimination against society's other disadvantaged groups. It is not always overt. In fact, as both provincial and federal governments work to introduce legislation that provides equal rights in many areas, the acts of discrimination themselves often become more subtle and insidious. The crucial and necessary changes are frequently required in areas where no legislation can ever be introduced-in attitudes. Yet it is attitudes that often militate against equal treatment for women and men.
During International Women's Year it is hoped that all the people of Canada will work toward making equality a reality by truly recognizing women and men as equals. Real freedom of opportunity for women will come when society recognizes that women have the same right to pursue whatever goals they may individually choose, be that goal centred on home and family or career or a combination of any such goals. This equality of opportunity can only come about when all Canadians recognize women as full and equal contributors to our society.
International Women's Year is a year in which we can acknowledge the major contributions which women have made to Canada's social, cultural, political and economic development. It is also a time to ensure that as women choose new roles, the doorways are opened so that they may continue to make such contributions.
It would, however, be unrealistic to assume that full equality will be achieved in just one year. It is for this reason that International Women's Year, while being a special year, must not be regarded as an end in itself but must be seen in the context of the government's ongoing program to improve the status of women. This work must
2458

January 22, 1975
International Women's Year
be, and will be continued beyond 1975 until equality exists in fact as well as in law and Canadian women are recognized and accepted as equal partners with Canadian men in the building of our nation.


Hon. Robert L. Stanfield (Leader of the Opposition):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to associate myself and my colleagues with the marking of the commencement of International Women's Year proclaimed by the United Nations. I hope that we will see, during 1975, not only happy members of parliament, as referred to by the Prime Minister (Mr. Trudeau), but very marked progress in the achievement of equality for women in this country and in other countries as well.
Opportunities for careers for women in our country are unquestionably expanding. We must, however, recognize that we are still behind some countries, some societies with regard to the position of women in our society, opportunities for women, and their equality. While it may be that there are now very few careers really closed to women, I think any man would have to admit that in Canada there are many careers in which a women has to be considerably abler, smarter and more industrious than a man in order to succeed.
If we look around us here today, without casting any aspersions upon the qualities or intelligence of those of the same sex as myself I would have to admit that the Commons as it presently exists is not truly representative of this country, in the sense that women are not adequately represented.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


Robert Lorne Stanfield: I probably have to admit, too, that the women who are here had to be a good deal more able, better politicians than me in order to get here. I am surprised that that comment did not receive a great deal of applause, at least from across the way. In any case, let us hope that 1975 will be a productive year in terms of improvement in the status of women, particularly in our own country, because it is in our own country, for which we have responsibility, that we need definite programs. I rather suspect that women in Canada are not now particularly interested in conferences and commissions; they want to see definite, tangible changes and improvements.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


Robert Lorne Stanfield: It is now three or four years since the report on the status of women was tabled in this House. Many of its recommendations still have not been carried out. We must recognize that it is more difficult for a woman in Canada, generally speaking, to achieve an equal place in the world of work than it is for a man. While I would not expect even this government to overcome this difficulty completely in one year, let us hope we see some significant progress in very tangible ways, Mr. Speaker.
Some bon. Members: Hear, hear!


Mr. Edward Broadbent (Oshawa-Whitby):: On behalf of my colleagues, Mr. Speaker, I would like to join the Prime Minister (Mr. Trudeau) and the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Stanfield) in recognizing the importance of International Women's Year. I cannot forgo the oppor-

tunity of saying at the outset, however, that we were not given a copy of the Prime Minister's statement until about seven minutes before 2 p.m.


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh!


John Edward Broadbent: Already I see that hon. members opposite are back to their pre-Christmas form. I cannot help but conclude that if the statement had been made on international trade policy or on labour negotiations within the country, or on a wheat problem, it is probable that we would have had the statement somewhat earlier even from the Prime Minister. However, these hon. members no doubt think they have done their bit for the cause of women's liberation by wearing their buttons in the House. Perhaps I could have some order, Mr. Speaker.


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh!


John Edward Broadbent: They no doubt think that therefore they have done their job.


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh!


An hon. Member:: Simmer down.


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. It is customary for one representative of each party to have the opportunity to reply to a statement on motions.


John Edward Broadbent: The catcalls are even more incoherent than usual, Mr. Speaker. The point is a serious one. If we are making statements on important social questions, members of the opposition, the Leader of the Opposition and myself should receive substantially more notification than we did today. That is all I am going to say on this issue.
Mr. Speaker, on this important human and social question the time has passed for conferences, commissions and slick advertising campaigns. The women of Canada, like women all over the western industrial world, now see themselves, appropriately, as being in a moral, social and economic sense subject to the will of others. It is, speaking quite frankly, a male reaction-and I am part of that reaction-to steps taken by the women of this country and others that is finally, and reluctantly, leading to legislative, social and economic change that will provide real equality for women.
Let us not be under any illusion-and I direct these comments to the women of Canada-that if they want real change and real progress, they will have to keep the heat on this House of Commons and on other legislative bodies. No social group in our history, or in the history of any other country, has had their liberation made for them by others. They get it when they create pressure and force on society to get those with authority and influence to make the necessary changes. I want, in a very specific way, to make ten very brief points.


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh!


Mr. Turner (Ottawa-Carleton):: The manifesto; here it comes.
January 22, 1975


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. Notwithstanding the fact that it is the established custom of this House to permit a reply of appropriate duration to a statement on motions, if the hon. member at this point is proposing to develop ten brief points, I hope, on behalf of members of the House, that they will be extremely brief.


John Edward Broadbent: Mr. Speaker, I would very much welcome your cutting me off after I have used the same amount of time as the Prime Minister.


Some hon. Members:: Shame.


John Edward Broadbent: I would suggest, with respect, Mr. Speaker, that I can make ten points in the time that he took to make none. It is a measure of the lack of equality in this country that the following ten points can still be called for at this time:
First, laws are required prohibiting discrimination because of sex or marital status in the recruitment, classification, promotion, dismissal and advertising of jobs in Canada. They do not exist.
Second, we need child-care centres for children of all ages which are free, community controlled and available on a 24-hour a day basis.
Third, tough laws, strictly enforced, are needed to provide equal pay for work of equal value and to provide incentives to achieve this objective.
Fourth, changes in labour laws are required to provide collective bargaining rights and fringe benefits for domestic and part-time workers. Women in our society find themselves, much more than men, in the category of parttime workers.
Fifth, we need amendments to pension laws to give all women, including those who work at home, the same rights to join and to draw benefits as are enjoyed by men.
Sixth, we need effective guarantees that male and female students are equally entitled to enroll-and I mean effectively equally entitled-in any course of their choosing so that vocations in our society will be equally available to both sexes.
Seventh, we need the elimination, particularly at the elementary school level, of sex stereotyping in text-books. All of us know the kind of examples which could be cited that prevail in our textbooks.
Eighth, we need action taken against advertising which exploits sex and demeans the role and place of women in society.
Ninth, amendments are needed to take abortion out of the Criminal Code so that women are free to act in accordance with their consciences and on the advice of a qualified medical expert.
Tenth, we need the establishment of sex education and birth control centres adequately equipped to advise on family planning, birth control methods, abortion, pre-natal and post-natal care, and ways and means of caring for and supporting a child in the case of an unplanned pregnancy.
Mr. Speaker, those are my ten brief points. Much more could be added but I will conclude with what I said at the
Prime Minister's Swimming Pool
outset: the time for conferences has passed and the time for action is upon us.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


Mr. Real Caouette (Temiscamingue):: Mr. Speaker, my colleagues and I are happy to join the Prime Minister (Mr. Trudeau) and the Leaders of the Official Opposition and of the New Democratic Party in wishing International Women's Year all the success anticipated by this organization.
As the Prime Minister said a moment ago, we are happy to have with us, in this Parliament, women who represent the voters from their respective constituencies.
I believe that the presence of women enhances the quality of the Canadian Parliament. We feel, and I am convinced, that women must fully play their role in our society, whether in the parliamentary, family or business fields and that they are entitled to respect. Mr. Speaker, I also say that women must never be slaves in any society or organization. In some parts of the world, women are on an equal footing with men. For instance, when I was in Russia, I saw women coming out of coal mines. I would not be happy to see a woman working at the Noranda's mine in my own riding, but rather a woman well respected in her own situation. I do not know how the leaders of other parties have organized the political activity of their offices, but in the Social Credit Party leader's office the executive is a woman and she carries out a very important job. All members are in a position to note the efficiency of their office secretary and also to treat equally their male and female employees.
Mr. Speaker, a moment ago the Prime Minister was right to offer his best wishes for International Women's Year, and so do my colleagues and I, not in order that women be better than men, but that they be treated equally throughout Canada.


CONFLICT OF INTEREST
Mr. Stanley Knowles (Winnipeg North Centre):: Mr. Speaker, I ask leave of the House to present a motion under Standing Order 43. The matter is one which came to light a few days after the House rose on December 20 and I feel quite seriously that there is urgency for the matter to be looked into without further delay. I therefore move, seconded by the hon. member for Nanaimo-Cowichan-The Islands (Mr. Douglas):
That there be referred to the Standing Committee on Privileges and Elections the subject matter of the building of a swimming pool at the residence of the Prime Minister of Canada, so that the said committee can ascertain the names of the donors, the amount contributed by each donor, any tax deductibility to be enjoyed by each donor, and the extent to which any conflict of interest guidelines are violated, and that the said committee report its findings within thirty days.
28626 - 21)4

January 22, 1975
Prime Minister's Swimming Pool


Mr. Speaker:: The House has heard the terms of the motion. It being proposed pursuant to Standing Order 43, it cannot be debated without the unanimous consent of the House. Is there unanimous consent?


Some hon. Members:: Agreed.


Some hon. Members:: No.


Mr. Speaker:: There not being unanimous consent, it cannot be debated at this time.


ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE
Mr. Leonel Beaudoin (Richmond):: Mr. Speaker, under the terms of Standing Order 43, I request unanimous consent of the House to discuss a matter of the utmost importance and urgency.
In view of the last mass murder in which 13 victims died as a result of setting fire to "Le Gargantua" nightclub in Montreal, and the fact that this barbaric act is part of a new wave of murders and violence in this country, I move, seconded by the hon. member for Lotbiniere (Mr. Fortin):
That the House ol Commons discuss immediately the possibility of reinstating capital punishment as possible sanction in the case of manslaughter in order to bring under control a situation which has now become intolerable.


Mr. Speaker:: The House has heard the motion of the hon. member. Under the terms of Standing Order 43, the motion requires unanimous consent of the House. Is there unanimous consent?


Some hon. Members:: Yes.


Some hon. Members:: No.


Mr. Speaker:: As there is not unanimous consent, the motion cannot be put.


CONFLICT OF INTEREST
Mr. Tom Cossitt (Leeds):: Mr. Speaker, I rise under the provisions of Standing Order 43 to ask permission to move a motion on a subject that has been touched on by the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre (Mr. Knowles). It is an entirely different approach to the subject. Therefore, I feel there is not in any way a duplication. I ask permission to move, seconded by the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka (Mr. Darling):

In view of the urgent and pressing necessity of establishing whether or not any improprieties or conflict of interest factors exist in connection with construction of a swimming pool at the Prime Minister's residence at 24 Sussex Drive, the House requests that such construction be suspended and not continued further unless or until the Prime Minister makes a detailed statement to parliament on all circumstances surrounding this situation, including full revelation of the identities of all persons involved in anonymously furnishing very substantial sums of money to the project, all reasons and purposes such money is being furnished and whether or not any public funds are included in the reported total minimum expenditure of $200,000.


Mr. Speaker:: The House having expressed a lack of unanimous consent to debate a motion presented by the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre (Mr. Knowles) under very similar terms, I can only conclude there would be an expression of the same sentiment with regard to this motion.


FINANCE
John Napier Turner: Mr. Speaker, under Standing Order 41(2) I would like to table the communiques in English and French prepared following the meetings in Washington of the Interim Committee of the Board of Governors of the International Monetary System and from the ministerial meetings of the Group of Ten, held January 14 to 16.


QUESTIONS ON THE ORDER PAPER
[Stage Direction]
(Questions answered orally are indicated by an asterisk.)
Mr. John M. Reid (Parliamentary Secretary to President of the Privy Council):: Mr. Speaker, the following questions will be answered today: 13, 30, 99, 106, 115, 129, 174, 214,	251,	287,	312,	315,	321,	334,	347,	349,	373,	392,	411,430, 451,	472,	475,	486,	487,	488,	489,	490,	491,	492,	493,	494,495, 496,	497,	499,	508,	527,	542,	563,	580,	581,	582,	583,	584,585, 586,	587,	588,	589,	590,	591,	592,	593,	594,	595,	596,	597,598, 599,	600,	601,	602,	603,	604,	605,	607,	612,	625,	628,	631,646, 674,	677,	698,	725,	727,	761,	764,	778,	779,	790,	794,	798,805, 812,	817,	823,	824,	825,	826,	828,	831,	832,	833,	834,	839,850, 851,	852,	853,	854,	855,	856,	857,	858,	859,	875,	876,	882,885, 887,	888,	893,	896,	899,	901,	907,	910,	917,	918,	922,	923,
961, 963, 966, 967, 976, 979, 980, 988, 990, 992, 994, 1005, 1006, 1019, 1020, 1021, 1025, 1028, 1045, 1046, 1047, 1048, 1084, 1085, 1086, 1087, 1088, 1089, 1090, 1091, 1092, 1100, 1104, 1105, 1118, 1125, 1126, 1135, 1136, 1152, 1160, 1165, 1190 and 1192.
Mr. Speaker, if questions Nos. 24, 37, 65, 68, 121, 192, 269, 303, 319,	323,	329,	331,	338,	339,	364,	398,	498,	507,	523,	558,640, 687,	688,	765,	789,	842,	870,	873,	874,	879,	886,	965,	983,
998, 999, 1001, 1004, 1009, 1095, 1110 and 1113 could be made orders for return, these returns would be tabled immediately.
January 22, 1975

Mr. Speaker, would you be so kind as to call starred questions Nos. 309, 964 and 1148?
I ask, Mr. Speaker, that the remaining questions be allowed to stand.


Mr. Speaker:: In enumerating the 600 range, after question 677 I believe the parliamentary secretary said question 698. Should that be 696 or 698?


John Mercer Reid: That should be 696, Mr. Speaker.


Mr. Reynolds: How many pounds of butter are currently in storage?


Hon. E. F. Whelan (Minister of Agriculture):: As at
September 1, 1974 there were 49,215,000 pounds of butter in storage.


Mr. Cossitt: With reference to the printing on Agriculture Canada paper of an address by the Minister of Agriculture to the North York Liberal Association on April 3, 1974, did the government pay the cost of such printing and distribution and, if not, what individual or what organization reimbursed the Receiver General for Canada for such costs, how much reimbursement was involved, what is the date that such reimbursement was requested and from whom and on what date was reimbursement received?


Eugene Whelan: Yes. All public addresses made by the Minister of Agriculture across Canada are handled in the same manner.


Mr. Allard: Does the government subsidize the Canadian Council on Urban and Regional Research and, if so (a) for how many years (b) through what department (c) what amounts were granted in 1971, 1972 and 1973 (d) did the government make a grant as capital for the Council at the time it was created or at some later stage of its development?


Hon. Barney Danson (Minister of State for Urban Affairs):: Yes. (a) 1973-74 only; (b) Ministry of State for Urban Affairs; (c) 1973-74 $407,879; (d) At a later stage of its development.
I am advised by Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation as follows: (a) to (d) C.M.H.C. made grants totalling $1,361,000 from 1962-1971, to assist in supporting the operations of the Canadian Council on Urban and Regional Research in those years. A grant of $105,000, under Part V of the National Housing Act was made in 1971, to enable the council to exploit the new capacity from 1970 investments in a computerized custom bibliographic service.
Order Paper Questions


Mr. Allard: Does the government subsidize the Canadian Council for International Co-operation and, if so (a) for how many years (b) through what department (c) what amounts were granted in 1971, 1972 and 1973 (d) did the government make a grant as capital for the Council at the time it was created or at some later stage of its development?


Hon. Mitchell Sharp (President of the Privy Council):: 
Mr. Marshall: Is it the intention of the government to remove the requirement which stipulates that World War I veterans must have served overseas for 365 days prior to November, 1918 in order to qualify for War Veterans Allowance?


Hon. Daniel J. MacDonald (Minister of Veterans Affairs):: Any such action would be a matter of government policy and would be announced in the usual way.


Mr. Herbert: How many public servants in the Department of Finance received T4 slips for 1973 showing gross remuneration in excess of (a) $20,000 (b) $30,000 (c) $40,000?


John Napier Turner: In so far
as the Department of Finance is concerned: (a) 85; (b) 21; <c)2.

January 22, 1975
Order Paper Questions


Mr. Orlikow: What was the recidivist rate of males admitted to each Canadian penitentiary in the year 1973?


Hon. Warren Allmand (Solicitor General):: Region
Atlantic
Quebec
Ontario
Prairie
Pacific
National
January 1 to September 30, 1974
Recidivist Rate 30 per cent
28	per cent 32 per cent
29	per cent 25 per cent 29 per cent
Notes: 1. The Canadian Penitentiary Service define a recidivist as an inmate who: (a) had been previously incarcerated in a federal penal institution, and (b) was re-admitted, for reasons other than parole or mandatory supervision violation, within five (5) years of his release from a federal penal institution.
2.	The Penitentiary Service computerized Inmate Record System's data base does not contain data on previous periods of incarceration of persons admitted in 1973, if their previous period was prior to January 1, 1970. Therefore, they are unable to provide data for the period requested and still apply their definition of a recidivist.
3.	Persons sentenced to penitentiary are initially admitted through designated regional receiving institutions. Following a period of assessment, they are transferred to an institution deemed most suitable to their security classification and rehabilitation needs.


Mr. Howie: 1.	In the Armed Forces, what is the basic salary of (a) a corporal (b) a lieutenant?
2.	Is any adjustment planned?


Hon. James Richardson (Minister of National Defence):: 1. (a) A corporal's basic pay, depending on trade qualifications, is $852 to $1,078 a month; (b) A lieutenant's basic pay is $655 a month.
2.	No adjustments are planned since the pay rates of corporals are comparable with the prevailing rates for tradesmen in the Public Service, and the prevailing rates for lieutenants are comparable with pay rates for recent university graduates in the Public Service. The higher rate of pay for a corporal is related to length of service and qualification, a minimum of 4 years of service is required before appointment to the rank of corporal while a lieutenant's basic pay begins on entering service in that rank. Also, a Lieutenant's basic pay while starting at $655 a month increases with length of service more rapidly than a corporal's rate of pay.


Mr. Herbert: 1.	Has it been possible to measure the success of the educational campaign aimed at reducing or eliminating age discrimination in employment?
2.	Is the government considering the introduction of legislation that would include severe penalties for those employers found guilty of age discrimination?


Mitchell William Sharp: 1.	No formal educational campaign aimed at reducing or eliminating age discrimination in employment has been undertaken recently. In the course of their regular activities, Canada Manpower Centres across the country pursue discussions aimed at reducing or eliminating all types of discrimination, including age.
2.	Legislation will be introduced that will include a means of dealing with employers who discriminate against persons on grounds of age.


Mr. McKinnon: Is it the intention of the Department of National Defence to purchase C-130 Hercules Aircraft as a replacement for DC-3s, to be used for training navigators?


James Armstrong Richardson: The Department of National Defence plans to use C-130 Hercules aircraft that are presently in inventory for navigation training. Five C-130 Hercules have been purchased for use by Air Transport Command.


Mr. Hamilton (Qu'Appelle-Moose Mountain): 1.	Did the government make a financial grant to the "Club of Rome" and, if so, what were the terms, conditions and amount of that financial assistance?
2.	Has the government received copies of the so-called "Gabor" report dealing with the findings of a technological group chaired by Mr. Dennis Gabor undertaken under the auspices of the "Club of Rome" which was supported by a grant from the government and, if so, will the government table a copy of the "Gabor" report?


Hon. C. M. Drury (Minister of State for Science and Technology):: 1. Mr. Speaker, the Ministry of State for Science and Technology has committed an amount, not to exceed $25,000, to the Club of Rome as Canada's share of the cost of the study under the leadership of Dr. Dennis Gabor, a Nobel prize winner in physics. The study team includes Dr. Norman Borlaug of Mexico and Dr. Emilio Serge of the United States, both of whom are Nobel prize winners, as well as ten other eminent scientists from many countries. The study entitled "The New Research Imperative" will recommend specific areas of science and technology which may be effective in the solution of global problems that are emerging as a result of the increasing population, resource depletion and environmental changes. The work, when published by the Club of Rome, is to be reviewed by the science ministers of the various countries. This report will become one of the first documents prepared on an international basis that provides practical recommendations for research and develop-
January 22, 1975

ment with positive indications of where government policies could be effective.
2.	At the Club of Rome's annual meeting in Berlin, October 14-17, 1974, Professor Gabor presented a short review of the major results of the study, which is nearing completion and which will be generally available.


Mr. Herbert: 1.	On what date did phase I of the system of the Canadian Construction Information Corporation begin?
2.	How many subscribers were included?
3.	What is the target date for full operation?
4.	What is the total of funds provided to the Corporation to date?


Mr. Gaston Clermont (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce):: 1. The pilot phase of the Canadian Construction Information Corporation started on August 1 in Toronto, September 10 in Montreal and September 12 in Ottawa.
2.	A total of 30 information users were included.
3.	The target date for full operation is April, 1976.
4.	Total funds provided to the corporation to date are approximately $1,500,000.


Mr. Herbert: Are telegrams which cannot be transmitted by telephone mailed with often lengthy delay in delivery and will the government consider measures making it obligatory that the telegraph agency attempt to advise the sender when the message cannot be completed in the normal time?


Hon. Gerard Pelletier (Minister of Communications):: Certain messages which cannot be delivered by telephone are delivered by mail. However, in the case of emergency messages the telegraph company uses every means at its disposal to reach the addressee, and the sender is normally informed of the difficulties experienced by the company to reach the addressee. The Railway Act has been interpreted as conferring jurisdiction on the Canadian Transport Commission principally in the area of telegraph tolls. Consequently, changes in legislation would be required if such sender notification were to be made obligatory. The government does not contemplate introducing such legislation at this time.


Mr. Crouse: 1.	Was Philbrooks Shipyards of Sidney, British Columbia the low bidder on three 65-foot fibreglass protection vessels as ordered on October 4, 1974 by the Department of Supply and Services and, if so (a) were other bids reviewed (b) what was the name of the company and amount of each bid?
2.	What will be provided on these ships in the way of protection equipment when used by the Department of the Environment?
3.	Is it the intention of the government to have these ships operate 12 months of the year and, if so, in what areas?
Order Paper Questions
4.	What assurances does the government have from the builder of seaworthiness of these ships in the winter months?


Mitchell William Sharp: I am informed by the Departments of Supply and Services and the Environment as follows: 1. Only one firm submitted a tender, i.e. Philbrook's Shipyards Ltd.
2.	These vessels will be constructed and equipped in accordance with the applicable regulations under the Canada Shipping Act. These regulations are administered by the Canadian Steamship Inspection sector of the Ministry of Transport. For example, the vessel will be fitted with lifesaving and firefighting equipment as prescribed by the Lifesaving Equipment Regulations and the Fire Detection and Extinguishing Equipment Regulations, respectively. These vessels are too small to be fitted with helicopter landing facilities.
3.	It is the intention that these vessels would operate to meet fisheries protection requirements throughout the year. The vessels will operate from three bases. The first vessel will be based at Port Alberni, Vancouver Island, British Columbia, and will operate off the West Coast of Vancouver Island. The second vessel will be based at New Westminster, British Columbia and will operate in the Strait of Georgia and adjacent waters. The third vessel will be based at Nanaimo, British Columbia and this vessel will also operate in the Strait of Georgia and adjacent waters.
4.	All vessels that are built for the Department of the Environment are built to meet the specifications established by the Canadian Steamship Inspection service of the Ministry of Transport. It is the responsibility of the builder to meet these safety requirements, and the vessel would not be permitted to proceed to sea without a safety certificate issued by the Ministry of Transport.


Mr. Herbert: 1.	Has the government rejected the introduction of tax free bonds and, if so, for what reasons?
2.	Will the government consider tax changes to facilitate the issuance by municipalities of tax free bonds?


John Napier Turner: At the
present time the government does not intend to introduce tax free bonds for the following reasons: 1. In a tax system such as ours, based on graduated rates of taxation the use of tax free bonds would primarily benefit upper income taxpayers, because a non-inclusion in taxable income is more valuable to taxpayers who would otherwise be required to pay a greater proportion of their income in the form of tax. Such a result would introduce unfairness into the income tax system.
2. There is a tendency to overestimate the extent to which a tax exemption for interest would enable municipalities to borrow money at lower rates of interest. The tax exempt feature would not attract tax exempt purchasers such as pension plans or charitable foundations and therefore the market for these bonds would be restricted. Finally, the increased competition caused by the entry of tax free bonds might cause confusion in the capital markets and cause a rise in interest rates on taxable bonds in

January 22, 1975
Order Paper Questions
order to attract investors. Such a result would add to the current inflationary trends in the economy. For these reasons the government is now not considering proposing tax changes to facilitate the issuance by municipalities of tax free bonds.


Mr. Gillies: 1.	(a) What has been the net government expenditure to date on the 2,000 covered hopper cars which the government provided to the railways (b) how many tons of wheat can a fully loaded car carry (c) what is the total weight of a fully loaded car (d) what are the overall dimensions of the car?
2.	(a) What has been the gross expenditure by the government on these cars (b) how much has been recovered to date (c) how much will be recovered, and by what means, in the future (d) do the railways now own these cars and, if so, what did they, or will they, pay for them?


Hon. Otto E. Lang (Minister of Justice):: 1. (a) $45,675,569; (b) 100 tons; (c) 263,000 lbs.; (d) overall length 59 feet; overall height 15 feet, one inch; overall width 10 feet, eight inches; cubic capacity 4,550 cubic feet.
2. (a) $46,091,362; (b) $415,793; (c) Rental payment are received from the railways only when the cars are utilized in grain service east of Thunder Bay; (d) No. The cars are owned by the Government of Canada. The railways pay for the maintenance and repair of the cars.


Mr. Gillies: 1.	(a) On what date were orders placed for 4,000 additional hopper cars (b) on what date are the cars to be delivered (c) how many cars have been ordered with a conventional steel design, from whom, at what cost (d) how many cars have been ordered with a new aluminium design, from whom, at what cost (e) what car orders, already on the suppliers order books, as placed by the railways, did these orders displace (f) what will the railways do for their displaced cars?
2.	Were the railways consulted before these hopper car orders were placed and, if so, did the railways agree that this would be the preferred course of action?
3.	(a) Will the fully loaded cars of conventional steel design be able to operate over any additional miles of off-main-line trackage than the previous cars and, if so (i) how many more miles (ii) for what reasons (b) will the fully loaded cars of the new aluminum design be able to operate over any additional miles of such trackage and, if so (i) how many more miles (ii) for what reasons (c) will the newer cars, of either or of both designs, be dimensioned so that clearance and loading problems will be fully resolved?
4.	Does the government intend to recover the cost of these 4,000 cars and (a) if so, by what means and over what period of time (b) if not, will this not be a direct subsidization of prairie grain movements?
5.	(a) What is the expected per cent utilization, on a car-day basis, for this fleet, by year, for the first five in-service years (b) what is the detailed basis for this expectation?
6.	What arguments can be advanced which will convince the people of Canada that this government action was taken in the National interest?
7.	Can other shippers expect a similar benefit on their behalf from government and, if not, for what reason?


Otto Emil Lang: 1. (a) July 19, 1974; (b) Commencing last quarter 1975, terminating 2nd quarter 1977; (c) 2400, Marine Industries Ltd., Sorel-1,000 Hawker-Siddeley Canada Ltd., Trenton, Nova Scotia- 1400; (d) 1600, National Steel Car Corp., Hamilton,

Ontario. Final delivered prices are not available due to anticipated price escalation. Estimated total cost at date of order $128,400,000. (e) None, (f) Not applicable.
2.	Yes. The car designs were jointly recommended by Canadian National and CP Rail.
3.	(a) No. (b) Yes (i) CN 1775 miles; CP 3800 miles; (ii) Gross weight of car will be within limits of 220,000 track capacity; (c) Yes, except for minor elevator loading- spout modifications for top loading of car.
4.	The operating agreement between the Canadian Wheat Board and the railways is not finalized covering the recently ordered 4,000 cars and is subject to policy review.
5.	Utilization will depend upon the over-all level of grain movement, the degree to which train movements can be planned and the future configurations of the grain gathering system.
6.	The declining number of general purpose box cars available for grain service and the lack of economic justification for railway capital expenditures required an immediate decision to be made by the Government to acquire the cars.
7.	There are no plans to purchase cars for other shippers as similar financial circumstances are not involved.


Mr. Herbert: 1.	When a government department expropriates a small business property which provides the only source of income for the owner, is it prepared to recognize that the price which the owner is awarded will not set him up in business in a new and perhaps unsuitable locality, nor will it replace his building?
2.	Is the government prepared to consider the plight of a person who runs a store or business dependent on local trade who is, from a practical point of view, compelled to accept the price established by the government, since it would be necessary to give up his business if he chose to fight the delays and frustrations of dealing with a bureaucracy and different agencies?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: 1. Under the New Expropriation Act (Chapter 16 RSC 1970), Section 24 of the said Act sets the rules for determining value. When the Crown expropriates a small business whereby the owner operates out of his own building, the said owner will be paid the market value which is determined as follows: (a) the market value determined on the basis that the use to which the expropriated interest was being put at the time of its taking, was its highest and best use, plus (b) the costs, expenses and losses arising out of or incidental to the owner's disturbance including moving to other premises or, if those costs cannot be estimated, an amount not to exceed 15 per cent of the market value determined in (a), plus (c) any value to the owner representing a special economic advantage to him arising out of or incidental to his occupation of the land, to the extent that no provision was made in (a) and (b) above. With regard to the relocation itself, it is the owner's responsibility to find a location where he can continue his business.
2. Under Section 14(1) (b) of the New Expropriation Act (Chapter 16 RSC 1970), the Minister shall, within 90 days after the Notice of Confirmation has been registered, make an offer in writing to the expropriated interest. Such offer is equal to the full amount which, in the opinion of
January 22, 1975

the Minister, represents his interest in the property being expropriated. He can accept the amount without prejudice to the right of claiming additional compensation. Such right is valid for one year after he accepted the original offer. Such procedure allows him to avoid the delays and frustrations of dealing with a bureaucracy.


Mr. Herbert: 1.	On March 31, 1974, how many public servants in the Department of National Defence listed their mother tongue as (a) English (b) French (c) other?
2.	How many listing (a) English (b) French as their mother tongue are considered by the Department to be bilingual?


James Armstrong Richardson: 1. (a) English, 22,981; (b) French 6,476; (c) Other, 1,700.
2. Not available.


Mr. Rodriguez: 1.	What amounts have been allotted under the LIP program for 1974-75, for each constituency?
2.	What is the total amount of money which has been set aside for "entrepeneurial" LIP grants?


Hon. Robert K. Andras (Minister of Manpower and Immigration):: 1. Please refer to Motion for Production of Papers No. 4 tabled in the House October 30, 1974.
2. As at October 10, 1974, no money had been set aside for entrepreneurial LIP grants.


Mr. Cossitt: 1.	Since April 20, 1968, has any member of the staff of the Prime Minister's Office represented himself to any foreign government or to any person acting on behalf of a foreign government, including the USSR, as one who is prepared to act as an agent on their behalf while in the Prime Minister's employ and, if so (a) what is the identity of the foreign power (b) what is the name of the individual (c) what are the dates of his employment (d) what is the full description of all positions held in the Prime Minister's Office?
2.	(a) Who made the decision to hire this individual as a member of the Prime Minister's staff (b) what are the names and addresses of all those who recommended his employment (c) did the Prime Minister have any previous knowledge of him or did he play any part in hiring him and, if so, what was that part?
3.	Was this person in any way misrepresenting himself to the particular foreign power and, specifically, at the time, was he also claiming to Canadian authorities that he was an agent opposed to the foreign government in question?
4.	(a) On what date and for what reason was this individual's employment in the Prime Minister's Office terminated (b) what are the specific details of any subsequent employment that he received from the government?
5.	Did indiscreet remarks by the then Secretary of State for External Affairs to the Ambassador of the foreign power in question have any bearing on bringing about a conclusion to this matter?
Order Paper Questions


Mitchell William Sharp: 1. No.
2 to 5. Not applicable.


Mr. Forrestall: 1.	What is the policy of the Central Travel Service with respect to the use by government officials travelling on carriers other than those of Air Canada?
2.	What dollar level has been directed to regional carriers in each year 1970 to 1974 as a percentage of the total air fare billings made by CTS and in absolute terms?


Hon. Jean-Pierre Goyer (Minister of Supply and Services):: 1. The policy of the Central Travel Service is to make the travel arrangements requested by government officials. Except where considered impractical by the employer, travel on official business is by a Canadian carrier and is not restricted to Air Canada.
2. Air Canada and CP Air agents working out of the Central Travel Service arrange the booking of flights on regional carriers as required. The regional carriers bill Air Canada or CP Air who in turn invoice the Central Travel Service in their monthly billings. The Central Travel Service does not maintain separate records of the amounts paid by Air Canada and CP Air to regional carriers for transportation provided to government officials.


Mr. Forrestall: How does the government view a requirement to do ice-testing in a model environment for government vessels, military and non-military, outside of Canada in terms of security of design?


Mitchell William Sharp: In so far as the Department of National Defence is concerned: At present, there is no requirement for testing in a model environment for Canadian Forces ships. However, if such a requirement should arise in the future, it is probable that, security of design would require such testing to be performed in Canada.
In so far as the Ministry of Transport is concerned: Results of studies and model tests in relation to ship design undertaken by private firms for the Ministry of Transport become the property of the ministry, and are protected by a clause in the work contract to the effect that information on such studies and tests is not to be divulged to others without written consent of the Ministry of Transport.


Mr. Forrestall: 1.	What level of funding is presently provided by (a) program for the Advancement of Industrial Technology (b) Department of Regional Economic Expansion (c) other such programs funded by the government by such program concerned to stimulate and encourage development of Arctic carriers?
2.	What total level of funding in this regard is anticipated over the next five years?
2466

January 22, 1975
Order Paper Questions


Mitchell William Sharp: 1. (a) The Program for the Advancement of Industrial Technology is presently providing $5,053,528 to stimulate and encourage development of Arctic carriers, (b) The Department of Regional Economic Expansion has no programs which are specifically intended to stimulate and encourage development of Arctic carriers. It is possible, however, for the department to provide a regional development incentive to a firm proposing to manufacture transportation equipment for use in the Arctic if the firm establishes, expands or modernizes a facility in a region designated under the Regional Development Incentives Act. (c) The Ministry of Transport is developing guidelines for a possible program to encourage innovation and advances in ship technology that could lead to the development of a class of cargo ship best adapted to operations in Arctic waters.
(a)	(b)	(e)(i) Biophysics	2	1	Salary(ii) Chemistry of Natural Products	6	4	range of(iii) High Temperature Chemistry	5	3	sectional(iv) Instrumentation	3	1	staff is(v) Lichenology	2	1	$5,274 to(vi) Marine Botany I	4	2	$32,395(vii) Marine Botany II	6	4	(viii) Marine Station	5	3	(ix) Mass Spectrometry	3	2	(x) Microbiology	5	2	
(xi), and (xii) See 2. (xi) and 2. (xii)
4.	(a) SI,550,000.
(b)	66%.


[Stage Direction]
2. Projects requiring funding of $10 to $11 million during the next five years are foreseen at this time.


Mr. Holmes: 1.	What are the (a) present salary ranges (b) official duties assigned to each of the following Section Heads in the Atlantic Regional Laboratory Division of the National Research Council (i) Biophysics (ii) Chemistry of Natural Products (iii) High-Temperature Chemistry (iv) Instrumentation (v) Lichenology (vi) Marine Botany I (vii) Marine Botany II (viii) Marine Laboratory (ix) Mass Spectrometry (x) Microbiology (xi) Physiological Chemistry (xii) Chemical Biology?
2.	(a) What was the actual written output produced by each of the above sections from August 1, 1973 to August 1, 1974 (b) how many of these publications (per section) were used by (i) that division (ii) other research sections (iii) the public?
3.	(a) How many persons are presently employed by each section of the Atlantic Regional Laboratory (b) how many persons (per section) were actually involved in the production of the written output for that section (c) what is the salary range for persons employed by these sections?
4.	(a) What was the overall budget, including grants, for the Atlantic Regional Laboratory Division for the fiscal year 1973 (b) what percentage of this budget was used to pay salaries for ARL?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: 1. (a) The salary range for section heads is $23,380 to $32,395. (b) Each section head is responsible to the director for planning, initiating, conducting and supervising research in his section; for the preparation of reports and publications; for liaison with other sections and with scientists in other research organizations and industry.
(a)	(i)	(b) (ii)	(iii)(i) Biophysics	6	6	6	6(ii) Chemistry of Natural Products	11	11	11	11(iii) High Temperature Chemistry	7	7	7	6(iv) Instrumentation	2	2	2	2(v) Lichenology	2	2	2	2(vi) Marine Botany I	6	6	6	6(vii) Marine Botany II	13	13	13	13(viii) Marine Station	8	8	8	8(ix) Mass Spectrometry	7	7	7	7(x)	Microbiology (xi)	Physiological Chemistry (xii)	Chemical Biology	16 16 Not a section Not a section	16	16


Mr. Holmes: 1.	What are the (a) present salary ranges (b) official duties assigned to each of the following Section Heads in the Biological Sciences Division of the National Research Council (i) Animal and Cell Physiology (ii) Associate Committee on Scientific Criteria for Environmental Quality (iii) Biomathematics (iv) Organic Chemistry (v) Cell and Bacteria Culture (vi) Cell Biochemistry (vii) Cell Biophysics (viii) Ecological Kinetics (ix) Environmental Physiology (x) Environmental Secretariat (xi) Food Technology (xii) Immunochemistry (xiii) Molecular Biophysics (xiv) Membrane Biochemistry (xv) Radiation Chemistry (xvi) Radiation Dosimetry (xvii) Radiation Genetics (xviii) X-Ray Crystallography?
2.	(a) What was the actual written output produced by each of the above sections from August 1, 1973 to August 1, 1974 (b) how many of these publications (per section) were used by (i) that division (ii) other research sections (iii) the public?
3.	(a) How many persons are presently employed by each section of the Biological Sciences Division (b) how many persons (per section) were actually involved in the production of the written output for that section (c) what is the salary range for persons employed by these sections?
4.	(a) What was the overall budget, including grants, for the Biological Sciences Division for the fiscal year 1973 (b) what percentage of this budget was used to pay salaries for the Biological Sciences Division?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: 1. (a) The salary range for section heads is $23,380 to $32,395. (b) Each section head is responsible to the director for planning, initiating, conducting and supervising research in his section; for the preparation of reports and publications; for liaison with other sections and with scientists in other research organizations and industry.
	(a)		(b)	
(i)	(ii)	(iii)(i) Animal and Cell Physiology	13	13	13	13(ii) Associate Committee on	Not a section	Scientific Criteria for	see 2 (x)	Environmental Quality	(iii) Biomathematics	7	7	7	7(iv) Bio-Organic Chemistry	15	15	15	15(v) Plant Cell and Bacteria Culture	8	8	8	8(vi) Cell Biochemistry	18	18	18	18(vii) Cell Biophysics	9	9	9	9(viii) Ecological Kinetics	9	9	9	9(ix) Environmental Physiology	1	1	1	1(x) Environmental Secretariat	6	6	6	6(xi) Food Technology	17	17	17	17(xii) Immunochemistry	29	29	29	29

January 22, 1975

(a)	(i)	(b) (ii) (iii)(xiii) Molecular Biophysics	34	34	34 34(xiv) Membrane Biochemistry	12	12	12 12(xv) Radiation Chemistry	11	11	11 11(xvi) Radiation Dosimetry	2	2	2 2(xvii) Radiation Genetics	8	8	8 8(xviii) X-ray Crystallography	14	14	14 14(a)	(b)	(c)(i) Animal and Cell Physiology	12	8	Salary(ii) Associate Committee on	See 2	(ii)	range ofScientific Criteria for	sectionalEnvironmental Quality	staff is(iii) Biomathematics	7	2	$5,274 to(iv) Bio-Organic Chemistry	14	6	$32,395(v) Plant Cell and Bacteria Culture	11	7	(vi) Cell Biochemistry	17	12	(vii) Cell Biophysics	6	4	(viii) Ecological Kinetics	10	7	(ix) Environmental Physiology	7	1	(x) Environmental Secretariat	11	6	(xi) Food Technology	10	5	(xii) Immunochemistry	11	10	(xiii) Molecular Biophysics	7	6	(xiv) Membrane Biochemistry	5	3	(xv) Radiation Chemistry	9	7	(xvi) Radiation Dosimetry	3	2	(xvii) Radiation Genetics	6	4	(xviii) X-ray Crystallography	10	8	4. (a)	$4,194,000.(b)	66%.
Order Paper Questions
the director for planning, initiating, conducting and supervising research in his section; for the preparation of reports and publications; for liaison with other sections and with scientists in other research organizations and industry.
2.
	(a)		(b)
		(i)	(ii) (iii)
(i) Building Materials	32	32	32 32(ii) Noise and Vibration	43	43	11 11(iii) Building Services	85	85	14 14(iv) Building Structures	5	5	5 5(v) Fire Research	68	68	26 26(vi) Geotechnical	28	28	26 26(vii) Construction	not a section	(viii) Design	included in	2(ix)(ix) Building Design and Use	10	10	9 9(x) Codes and Standards	nil-	-codes issued on a	once in 5 years basis	(a)	(b)	(0(i) Building Materials	27	13	Salary(ii) Noise and Vibration	11	7	range of(iii) Building Services	22	10	sectional(iv) Building Structures	8	4	staff is(v) Fire Research	23	15	$5,274 to(vi) Geotechnical	26	12	$32,395(vii) Construction	not a section	(viii) Design	included in	3 (ix)(ix) Building Design and Use	8	5	(x) Codes and Standards	21	see 2(x)



SALARIES AND OFFICIAL DUTIES OF SECTION HEADS IN BUILDING RESEARCH DIVISION OF THE NATIONAL RESEARCH COUNCIL

Mr. Holmes: 1.	What are the (a) present ranges (b) official duties assigned to each of the following Section Heads in the Building Research Division of the National Research Council (i) Building Materials (ii) Noise and Vibrations (iii) Building Services (iv) Building Structures (v) Fire Research (vi) Geotechnology (vii) Construction (viii) Design (ix) Building Use (x) Codes and Standards?
2.	(a) What was the actual written output produced by each of the above sections from August 1, 1973 to August 1, 1974 (b) how many of these publications (per section) were used by (i) that division (ii) other research sections (iii) the public?
3.	(a) How many persons are presently employed by each section of the Building Research Division (b) how many persons (per section) were actually involved in the production of the written output for that section (c) what is the salary range for persons employed by these sections?
4.	(a) What was the overall budget, including grants, for the Building Research Division for the fiscal year 1973 (b) what percentage of this budget was used to pay salaries for the Building Research Division?
4. (a)	$4,672,000.
(b)	71%.



SALARIES AND DUTIES OF SECTION HEADS IN MECHANICAL ENGINEERING DIVISION, NATIONAL RESEARCH COUNCIL

Mr. Holmes: 1.	What are the (a) present salary ranges (b) official duties assigned to each of the following Section Heads in the Mechanical Engineering Division of the National Research Council (i) Mechanics (ii) Manufacturing Technology (iii) Hydrodynamics (iv) Thermodynamics (v) Transportation Technology (vi) Standards and Standardization (vii) Computer Applications (viii) Engineering and Biological Control Systems (ix) Medical and Surgical Instrumentation?
2.	(a) What was the actual written output produced by each of the above sections from August 1, 1973 to August 1, 1974 (b) how many of these publications (per section) were used by (i) that division (ii) other research sections (iii) the public?
3.	(a) How many persons are presently employed by each section of the Mechanical Engineering Division (b) how many persons (per section) were actually involved in the production of the written output for that section (c) what is the salary range for persons employed by these sections?
4.	(a) What was the overall budget, including grants, for the Mechanical Engineering Division for the fiscal year 1973 (b) what percentage of this budget was used to pay salaries for the Mechanical Engineering Division?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: 1. (a) The salary range for section heads is $23,380 to $32,395. (b) Each section head is responsible to


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: 1. (a) The salary range for section heads is $23,380 to $32,395. (b) Each section head is responsible to
28626 -22Vi

January 22, 1975
Order Paper Questions
the Director for planning, initiating, conducting and supervising research in his section; for the preparation of reports and publications; for liaison with other sections and with scientists in other research organizations and industry.
	(a)		(b)	
(i)	(ii)	(iii)Analysis Laboratory	27	27	27	27Control Systems Laboratory	42	42	42	23Instrument Laboratory	40	40	40	7Manufacturing Technology Centre	26	26	26	3Hydraulics Laboratory	16	16	16	13Marine Dynamics and Ship	Laboratory	23	23	23	13Gas Dynamics Laboratory	33	33	33	25Engine Laboratory	33	33	33	28Low Temperature Laboratory	9	9	9	5Fuels and Lubricants Laboratory	78	78	50	30
* The listing in part 1 of question No. 489 consists mainly of a listing of intersection activities. The Council has responded on the basis of existing research sections in the Division of Mechanical Engineering.
3.
(a)	(b)	(c)Analysis Laboratory	11	8	SalaryControl Systems Laboratory	18	8	range ofInstrument Laboratory	31	6	sectionalManufacturing Technology Centre	79	30	staff isHydraulics Laboratory	26	7	$5,274 toMarine Dynamics and Ship	$32,395Laboratory	22	6	Gas Dynamics Laboratory	29	13	Engine Laboratory	36	14	Low Temperature Laboratory	21	8	Fuels and Lubricants Laboratory	27	15	
4. (a) $5,726,000. (b) 75%.



SALARIES AND DUTIES OF SECTION HEADS IN NATIONAL AERONAUTICAL ESTABLISHMENT DIVISION. NATIONAL RESEARCH COUNCIL

Mr. Holmes: 1.	What are the (a) present salary ranges (b) official duties assigned to each of the following Section Heads in the National Aeronautical Establishment Division of the National Research Council (i) High Speed Aerodynamics (ii) Low Speed Aerodynamics (iii) Industrial Aerodynamics (iv) Unsteady Aerodynamics (v) Flight Research Aerodynamics (vi) Structures and Materials?
2.	(a) What was the actual written output produced by each of the above sections from August 1, 1973 to August 1, 1974 (b) how many of these publications (per section) were used by (i) that division (ii) other research sections (iii) the public?
3.	(a) How many persons are presently employed by each section of the National Aeronautical Establishment (b) how many persons (per section) were actually involved in the production of the written output for that section (c) what is the salary range for persons employed by these sections?
4.	(a) What was the overall budget, including grants, for the National Aeronautical Establishment for the fiscal year 1973 (b) what percentage of this budget was used to pay salaries for the National Aeronautical Establishment?
Hon. C. M. Drury (Minister of State for Science and Technology: 1. (a) The salary range for section heads is $23,380 to $32,395. (b) Each section head is responsible to the Director for planning, initiating, conducting and supervising research in his section; for the preparation of reports and publications; for liaison with other sections and with scientists in other research organizations and industry.
2.	(a)		(b)
		(i)	(ii) (iii)
(i) High Speed Aerodynamics	54	54	.54 20(ii) Low Speed Aerodynamics	49	49	49 36(iii) Industrial Aerodynamics*	included in	2(ii)(iv) Unsteady Aerodynamics	22	22	22 22(v) Flight Research Aerodynamics	34	' 34	34 11(vi) Structures and Materials	117	40	25 343.	(a)	(b)	(e)(i) High Speed Aerodynamics	51	13	Salary(ii) Low Speed Aerodynamics	35	13	range of(iii) Industrial Aerodynamics*	included	sectionalin 3 (ii)	staff is(iv) Unsteady Aerodynamics	13	8	$5,274 to(v) Flight Research Aerodynamics	74	21	$32,395(vi) Structures and Materials	55	30	
4. (a) $5,370,000. (b) 65%.
*Not a section.



SALARIES AND DUTIES OF SECTION HEADS IN PHYSICS DIVISION, NATIONAL RESEARCH COUNCIL

Mr. Holmes: 1.	What are the (a) present salary ranges (b) official duties assigned to each of the following Section Heads in the Physics Division of the National Research Council (i) Acoustics (ii) Electricity (iii) Heat and Solid State Physics (iv) High Temperature Physics (v) Instrumental Optics (vi) Mechanics (vii) Optical Physics (viii) Photogrammetric Research (ix) Radiation Optics (x) Time and Frequency (xi) X-Rays and Nuclear Radiations (xii) Cosmic Rays and High Energy (xiii) Larger Molecules (xiv) Laser and Plasma Physics (xv) Metal Physics (xvi) Spectroscopy?
2.	(a) What was the actual written output produced by each of the above sections from August 1, 1973 to August 1, 1974 (b) how many of these publications (per section) were used by (i) that division (ii) other research sections (iii) the public?
3.	(a) How many persons are presently employed by each section of the Physics Division (b) how many persons (per section) were actually involved in the production of the written output for that section (c) what is the salary range for persons employed by these sections?
4.	(a) What was the overall budget, including grants, for the Physics Division for the fiscal year 1973 (b) what percentage of this budget was used to pay salaries for the Physics Division?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: 1. (a) The salary range for section heads is

January 22, 1975

$23,380 to $32,395. (b) Each section head is responsible to the director for planning, initiating, conducting and supervising research in his section; for the preparation of reports and publications; for liaison with other sections and with scientists in other research organizations and industry.
2.	(a)	(b)	(>)	(ii) '	(iii)(i) Acoustics	10	10	10	10(ii) Electricity	4	4	4	4(iii) Heat and Solid State Physics	5	5	5	5(iv) High Temperature Physics	10	5	5	5(v) Instrumental Optics	1	1	1	1(vi) Mechanics	2	2	2	2(vii) Optical Physics	10	10	10	10(viii) Photogrammetric Research	9	9	9	9(ix) Radiation Optics	10	10	10	10(x) Time and Frequency	3	3	3	3(xi) X-Rays and Nuclear Radiations	11	11	11	11(xii) Cosmic Rays and High Energy	Physics	10	10	10	10(xiii) Larger Molecules	9	9	9	9(xiv) Laser and Plasma Physics	13	13	13	13(xv) Metal Physics	19	19	19	19(xvi) Spectroscopy	32	32	32	323.	(a)	(b)	(e)	(i) Acoustics	14	9	Salary	(ii) Electricity	14	6	range of	(iii) Heat and Solid State Physics	17	8	sectional	(iv) High Temperature Physics	10	5	staff is	(v) Instrumental Optics	4	2	$5,274 to	(vi) Mechanics	8	2	*32,395	(vii) Optical Physics	15	8	(viii) Photogrammetric Research	22	11	(ix) Radiation Optics	14	7	(x) Time and Frequency	11	5	(xi) X-Rays and Nuclear Radiations	28	15	(xii) Cosmic Rays and High Energy	Physics	27	14	(xiii) Larger Molecules	7	5	(xiv) Laser and Plasma Physics	13	7	(xv) Metal Physics	23	14	(xvi) Spectroscopy	21	12	
4. (a) $6,348,000. (b) 70%.
SALARIES AND DUTIES OF SECTION HEADS IN RADIO AND ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING DIVISION; NATIONAL RESEARCH COUNCIL


Mr. Holmes: 1.	What are the (a) present salary ranges (b) official duties assigned to each of the following Section Heads in the Radio and Electrical Engineering Division of the National Research Council (i) Laboratory Sections: Data Systems, Electrical Engineering, Electromagnetic Engineering, Electron Physics, Medical Engineering (ii) Astrophysics Branch (iii) Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope Project (iv) Algonquin Radio Observatory (v) Dominion Astrophysical Observatory (vi) Dominion Radio Astrophysical Observatory (vii) Radio Astronomy (viii) Ottawa River Solar Observatory (ix) Upper Atmosphere Research (x) Meteorite Observation and Recovery Project (xi) Spring-hill Meteor Observatory?
Order Paper Questions
2.	(a) What was the actual written output produced by each of the above sections from August 1, 1973 to August 1, 1974 (b) how many of these publications (per section) were used by (i) that division (ii) other research sections (iii) the public?
3.	(a) How many persons are presently employed by each section of the Radio and Electrical Engineering Division (b) how many persons (per section) were actually involved in the production of the written output for that section (c) what is the salary range for persons employed by these sections?
4.	(a) What was the overall budget, including grants, for the Radio and Electrical Engineering Division, for the fiscal year 1973 (b) what percentage of this budget was used to pay salaries for the Radio and Electrical Engineering Division?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: 1. (a) The salary range for section heads is $23,380 to $32,395. (b) Each section head is responsible to the director for planning, initiating, conducting and supervising research in his section; for the preparation of reports and publications; for liaison with other sections and with scientists in other research organizations and industry.
	(a)		(b)	
(i)	(ii)	(iii)(i) Data Systems	9	9	9	9Electrical Engineering	41	41	41	24Electromagnetic Engineering	27	27	27	17Electron Physics	18	18	18	18Medical Engineering	22	22	22	22(ii) Astrophysics Branch	consists of 2(iii) to	2(xi)	incl.	(iii) Canada-France-Hawaii	Telescope Project	not 8	i section	(iv) Algonquin Radio Observatory	included in	2(vii)	(v) Dominion Astrophysical	Observatory, Victoria, B.C.	31	31	31	31(vi) Dominion Radio Astrophysical	Observatory, Penticton, B.C.	9	9	9	9(vii) Radio Astronomy Section	67	67	67	67(viii) Ottawa River Solar Observatory	included in	2 (vii)	(ix) Upper Atmosphere Research	Section	27	27	27	27(x) Meteorite Observation and	Recovery Project	included in	2(ix)	(xi) Springhill Meteor Observatory	included in	2(ix)	(a)	(b)	(c)	(i) Data Systems	27	15	Salary	Electrical Engineering	24	19	ranee of	Electromagnetic Engineering	25	13	sectional	Electron Physics	17	9	staff is	Medical Engineering	11	9	*5,274	*32,395	(ii) Astrophysics Branch	consists of 3 (iii) to	3(xi) inel.	(iii) Canada-France-Hawaii	Telescope Project	not	a section	(iv) Algonquin Radio Observatory	(v) Dominion Astrophysical	included in	3(vii)	Observatory, Victoria, B.C.	43	16	(vi) Dominion Radio Astrophysical	Observatory, Penticton, B.C.	13	5	(vii) Radio Astronomy Section	61	20	(viii) Ottawa River Solar Observatory	included in	3 (vii)	(ix) Upper Atmosphere Research	Section	31	14	
January 22, 1975
Order Paper Questions
(x)	Meteorite Observation and
Recovery Projet	included in 3(ix)
(xi)	Springhill Meteor Observatory	included in 3(ix)
4. (a) $8,131,000
(b) 73%



SALARIES AND DUTIES OF SECTION HEADS IN PRAIRIE


Mr. Holmes: 1.	What are the (a) present salary ranges (b) official duties assigned to each of the following Section Heads in the Prairie Regional Laboratory of the National Research Council (i) Physiology of Root Rot Control (ii) Biologically Active Compounds from Microorganisms (iii) Microbial Degradation of Organic Compounds (iv) Nitrogen Fixation (v) Plant Cell Research (vi) Biologically Active Compounds from plant Sources (vii) Rapeseed (viii) Plant Leaf Waxes (ix) Wood Extractives (x) Fermentation Technology (xi) Production and Utilization of Field Peas?
2.	(a) What was the actual written output produced by each of the above sections from August 1, 1973 to August 1, 1974 (b) how many of these publications (per section) were used by (i) that division (ii) other research sections (iii) the public?
3.	(a) How many persons are presently employed by each section of the Prairie Regional Laboratory (b) how many persons (per section) were actually involved in the production of the written output for that section (c) what is the salary range for persons employed by these sections?
4.	(a) What was the overall budget, including grants, for the Prairie Regional Laboratory for the fiscal year 1973 (b) what percentage of this budget was used to pay salaries for the Prairie Regional Laboratory?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: 1. (a) The salary range for section heads is $23,380 to $32,395. (b) Each section head is responsible to the director for planning, initiating, conducting and supervising research in his section; for the preparation of reports and publications; for liaison with other sections and with scientists in other research organizations and industry.
(a)	(i)	(b) (ii) (iii)Microbial physiology and biochemistry	4	4	4 4Plant Biochemistry	18	18	18 18Chemistry of Natural Products	23	23	23 23Biotechnology	9	9	9 9(a)	(b)	(c)Microbial physiology and biochemistry	16	5	Salary range ofPlant Biochemistry	18	12	sectionalChemistry of Natural Products	14	10	staff isBiotechnology	13	5	$5,274 to $32,395
4. (a) $1,726,000;
(b) 72%
* The listing in part 1 of question No. 493 consists mainly of a listing of intersectional activities. The Council has responded on the basis of existing research sections in the Prairie Regional Laboratory.
[Mr. Drury.)



SALARIES AND DUTIES OF SECTION HEADS IN SPACE RESEARCH DIVISION, NATIONAL RESEARCH COUNCIL

Mr. Holmes: 1.	What are the (a) present salary ranges (b) official duties assigned to each of the following Section Heads in the Space Research Division of the National Research Council (i) Range Section: Churchill Research Range, Resolute, East Quoddy (Nova Scotia) (ii) Rocket Systems: Great Whale Geophysical Station?
2.	(a) What was the actual written output produced by each of the above sections from August 1, 1973 to August 1, 1974 (b) how many of these publications (per section) were used by (i) that division (ii) other research sections (iii) the public?
3.	(a) How many persons are presently employed by each section of the Space Research Division (b) how many persons (per section) were actually involved in the production of the written output for that section (c) what is the salary range for persons employed by these sections?
4.	(a) What was the overall budget, including grants, for the Space Research Division for the fiscal year 1973 (b) what percentage of this budget was used to pay salaries for the Space Research Division?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: I.	(a) The salary range for section heads is $23,380 to $28,735.
(b)
(i)	Range Section
The section head is responsible to the branch head for administration and operation of the following NRC rocket ranges:
Churchill-active
Resolute Bay-currently inactive
Great Whale-active
(East Quoddy-temporary site only, now closed)
(ii)	Rocket Systems Section
The section head is responsible to the branch head for implementation of programs approved by the Canadian Sounding Rocket Planning Group.
2.	(a)	<i)	(b) (ii)	(iii)(i)	Range Section	35	35	35	30(ii)	Rocket Systems Section	25	25	25	253.	(a)	(b)	(c)	(i)	Range Section	10	5	Salary range	(ii)	Rocket Systems Section	5	4	of sectional staff is $5,274 to $28,735	4. (a)	$2,822,000(b)	10 per cent



SALARIES AND DUTIES OF SECTION HEADS IN CHEMISTRY DIVISION, NATIONAL RESEARCH COUNCIL

Mr. Holmes: 1.	What are the (a) present ranges (b) official duties assigned to each of the following Section Heads in the Chemistry Division of the National Research Council (i) Analytical Chemistry (ii) Chemical Engineering (iii) Colloid Chemistry (iv) Metallic Corrosion and Oxidation (v) High Polymer Chemistry (vi) High Pressure Chemistry (vii) Hydrocarbon Chemistry (viii) Kinetics, Photochemistry and Catalysis (ix) Metallurgical Chemistry (x) Textile Chemistry (xi) Chemical Spectroscopy (xii) Molecular Structures (xiii) Organic Spectrochemistry (xiv) Organic Synthesis (xv) Theoretical Chemistry (xvi) Thermochemistry?
2.	(a) What was the actual written output produced by each of the above sections from August 1, 1973 to August 1, 1974 (b) how many of these publications (per section) were used by (i) that division (ii) other research sections (iii) the public?
3.	(a) How many persons are presently employed by each section of the Chemistry Division (b) how many persons (per section) were actually involved in the production of the written output for that section (c) what is the salary range for persons employed by these sections?
4.	(a) What was the overall budget, including grants, for the Chemistry Division for the fiscal year 1973 (b) what percentage of this budget was used to pay salaries for the Chemistry Division?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: In so far as the National Research Council of Canada is concerned, the answer is as follows: 1. (a) The salary range for section heads is $23,380 to $32,395; (b) Each section head is responsible to the director for planning, initiating, conducting and supervising research in his section; for the preparation of reports and publications; for liaison with other sections and with scientists in other research organizations and industry.
(i)	Analytical Chemistry
(ii)	Chemical Engineering
(iii)	Colloid Chemistry
(iv)	Metallic Corrosion and
Oxidation
(v) High Polymer Chemistry
(vi)	High Pressure Chemistry
(vii)	Hydrocarbon Chemistry
(viii)	Kinetics, Photochemistry
and Catalysis
(ix) Metallurgical Chemistry
(x)	Textile Chemistry
(xi)	Chemical Spectroscopy
(xii)	Molecular Structures
(xiii)	Organic Spectrochemistry
(xiv)	Organic Synthesis
(xv)	Theoretical Chemistry
(xvi)	Thermochemistry
(i)	Analytical Chemistry
(ii)	Chemical Engineering
(iii)	Colloid Chemistry (vi) Metallic Corrosion and
Oxidation
(v)	High Polymer Chemistry
(vi)	High Pressure Chemistry
(vii)	Hydrocarbon Chemistry
la		(b)	
(i)	(ii)	(iii)3	3	3	321	21	21	2122	22	22	227	7	7	712	12	12	1215	15	15	1527	27	27	2720	20	20	207	7	7	711	11	11	118	8	8	812	12	12	122	2	2	25	5	5	544	44	44	447	7	7	7(a)	(b)	(c)	10	2	Salary range	14	13	of sectional	10	9	staff is	10	8	$5,274 to $32,395	11	6	9	6	7	7	
Order Paper Questions
	(a)	(b)
(viii) Kinetics, Photochemistry		
and Catalysis	18	10(ix) Metallurgical Chemistry	14	6(x) Textile Chemistry	10	9(xi) Chemical Spectroscopy	4	2(xii) Molecular Structures	6	5(xiii) Organic Spectrochemistry	6	1(xiv) Organic Synthesis	3	3(xv) Theoretical Chemistry	7	7(xvi) Thermochemistry	3	1(a) $4,312,000; (b) 76 per cent.



SALARIES AND DUTIES OF SECTION HEADS IN PROGRAM


Mr. Holmes: 1.	What are the (a) present salary ranges (b) official duties assigned to each of the following Section Heads in the Program Planning and Analysis Group of the National Research Council (i) Long Range Planning (ii) Future Program Analysis (iii) Execution of Various Studies (iv) Collection of Statistical Data (v) Inventory of Research?
2.	(a) What was the actual written output produced by each of the above sections from August 1, 1973 to August 1, 1974 (b) how many of these publications (per section) were used by (i) that division (ii) other research sections (iii) the public?
3.	(a) How many persons are presently employed by each section of the Program Planning and Analysis (b) how many persons (per section) were actually involved in the production of the written output for that section (c) what is the salary range for persons employed by these sections?
4.	(a) What was the overall budget, including grants, for the Program Planning and Analysis for the fiscal year 1973 (b) what percentage of this budget was used to pay salaries for the Program Planning and Analysis?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: In so far as the National Research Council of Canada is concerned, the answer is as follows: Program Planning and Analysis Group was disbanded in 1973.



SALARIES AND DUTIES OF SECTION HEADS IN FINANCIAL SERVICES BRANCHES, NATIONAL RESEARCH COUNCIL

Mr. Holmes: 1.	What are the (a) present salary ranges (b) official duties assigned to each of the following Section Heads in the Financial Services Branch of the National Research Council (i) Program Forecasts and Estimates (ii) Accounting and Reporting Systems: Computation, Duplication, Plant Engineering, General Expenses, Work Shops, Stores, etc. (iii) Publications Sales and Distribution?
2.	(a) How many persons are presently employed by each section of the Financial Services Branch (b) what is the salary range for persons employed by these sections?
3.	(a) What was the overall budget, including grants, for the Financial Services Branch for the fiscal year 1973 (b) what percentage of this budget was used to pay salaries for the Financial Services Branch?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: 1. (a) The salary range for section heads is $21,109 to $23,946. (b) (i) Under direction, the head of the financial planning section plans, organizes and coordinates the work of the unit which relates to budgetary controls and the preparation of estimates of expenditure; supervises the publication sales and distribution unit, (ii) Under direction, the head of the accounting operations

January 22, 1975
Order Paper Questions
section plans, organizes and coordinates the work of the section which relates to general and revenue accounting
including pre-audit functions.	(iii) Included in l(i).	
2.	(a)	(b)(i)	14	*4,857-*23,946(ii)	9	*4,857 -*23.946
(iii) included in 2(i)
3.	(a) *430,000;
(b) 73%



SALARIES AND DUTIES OF SECTION HEADS IN ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES BRANCH, NATIONAL RESEARCH COUNCIL

Mr. Holmes: 1.	What are the (a) present salary ranges (b) official duties assigned to each of the following Section Heads in the Administrative Services Branch of the National Research Council (i) Central Administrative Services (ii) Plant Engineering Services?
2.	(a) How many persons are presently employed by each section of the Administrative Services Branch (b) what is the salary range for persons employed by these sections?
3.	(a) What was the overall budget, including grants, for the Administrative Services Branch for the fiscal year 1973 (b) what percentage of this budget was used to pay salaries for the Administrative Services Branch?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: In so far as the National Research Council of Canada is concerned, the answer is as follows: 1. (a) Salary range for head of: (i) Central Administrative Services, $24,535 to $27,811; * (ii) Plant Engineering Services Branch, $30,250 to $34,500; (b)(i) Under direction, the head of Central Administrative Services is responsible for providing central administrative services in areas such as property management, duplicating service, central filing procurement liaison and conference services, and for providing advice to NRC management on administrative problems; (ii) Under direction, the head of the Plant Engineering Service branch is responsible for the co-ordination of capital construction programs, the provision of engineering and craft support with respect to plant services, facilities and utilities, and the provision of building maintenance.
2.	(a)(i) 130; (ii) 255. (b)(i) $4,978 to $27,811; (ii) $6,389 to $34,500.
3.	(a)(i) $2,787,000; (ii) $4,940,000. (b)(i) 40 per cent; (ii) 42 per cent.
*Following a reorganization in 1973, Plant Engineering Services became a separate branch.



IMMIGRATION STATISTICS

Mr. Hnatyshyn: 1.	What was the number of landed immigrants who were admitted during each year 1971 to July 1, 1974?
2.	For each year, what was the number of landed immigrants from (a) Europe (b) South America (c) Asia (d) the Caribbean (e) Africa (f) other countries?

3.	For each year, how many landed immigrants were in receipt of unemployment insurance benefits and how many such immigrants were in receipt of unemployment insurance benefits according to the area of origin referred to in Part 2?


Hon.   Robert. K. Andras@Minister of Manpower and Immigration: 1 and 2.
1 and 2.	1971	1972	1973	1974 to June 30Europe	52,031	51,293	71,883	41,923South America	5,058	4,309	11,057	6,505Asia	22,171	23,325	43,193	23,295Caribbean	10,988	8,326	19,524	11,082Africa	2,841	8,308	8,307	4,595Other	28,811	26,445	30,236	16,688Total	121,900	122,006	184,200	104,089
3. At the time a landed immigrant first registers with a Canadian Manpower Centre or engages in insurable employment, he becomes a member of the Canadian labour force and as such, is indistinguishable for statistical purposes from any other member of Canada's labour force. Unemployment insurance benefits which are paid to unemployed members of Canada's labour force are based on a recipient's record of attachment to insurable employment and entitlement to benefits rather than on length of residence in Canada or citizenship considerations.



NATIONAL DEFENCE-PUBLIC SERVANTS IN RECEIPT OF VETERANS PENSION

Mr. Herbert: In the last year for which the information is available, how many public servants in the Department of National Defence who received a gross remuneration in excess of $20,000 also received a veteran's pension in excess of (a) $5,000 per year (b) $10,000 per year?


James Armstrong Richardson: The information requested is not readily available and could not be obtained without additional personnel and additional cost.



CANADA WORLD YOUTH ORGANIZATION

Mr. Schellenberger: 1.	Is Canada World Youth Organization presently funded by the government and, if so (a) to what extent is the funding (b) what criteria are used as to age requirements of group leaders or chaperons, their maturity, capability and experience?
2.	Is the budget scrutinized in order to eliminate certain wasteful and unnecessary expenditures such as excessive long distance calls and travel or is the budget left to the discretion of the group leader?


Mitchell William Sharp: I am informed by the Department of the Secretary of State and the Canadian International Development Agency as follows: 1. (a) $400,000 was funded to Canada World Youth from the 1974-75 Secretary of State fiscal budget to cover the final phase of the 1973-74 Canada World Youth program. The Canada World Youth Organization (C.W.Y.), is presently funded by the Canadian International Development Agency which has signed a service contract with this organization to provide $2.8 million for year III of C.W.Y.'s
January 22, 1975

program; this subvention is to be granted partly in fiscal year 1974/75 and the balance in 1975/76. (b) While the administration of the funds provided is kept under close scrutiny by CIDA, responsibility for establishing group leaders selection criteria rests with the CWY, as a private organization.
2. The budget of CWY is seriously scrutinized to establish whether generally the cost of CWY operations compares favourably with other private agencies providing similar services, and to ensure that administrative costs are kept at a reasonable level. It is not possible, however, for CIDA to monitor such items as long distance telephone calls or individual travel.



DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE-PUBLICITY EXPENDITURES, 1972-74

Mr. Symes: 1.	What were the amounts of money spent by the Department of Finance on publicity and/or information in each of the fiscal years 1972-73 and 1973-74?
2.	What were the names and addresses of firms and individuals who received these contracts, what amounts of money were spent in each case and what was the purpose of each contract?
3.	In the case of expenditures for publicity and/or information made within the Department by its publicity or information division, what was the amount in each case and the purpose of the expenditure?


John Napier Turner: In so far
as the Department of Finance is concerned: 1. 1972-73,
$218,622.61; 1973-74, $252,522.92.
2.
Name and Address Purpose of Contract	1972-73	1973-74

B. E. MacDonald To assist and advise the	35,000 36,000
Ottawa, Ontario minister and Department of Finance in providing information to the public concerning all financial and economic matters which fall within the responsibility of the Department of Finance and to undertake special projects for the minister and the department including communications liaison with the office of the Prime Minister and other departments.
Campbell Printing To prepare project signs for Nil 4,047.40 Ottawa, Ontario the Winter Capital Projects Fund.
CIC Screen Printers Ltd. Pointe Claire, Quebec
To prepare project signs for Nil 3,379.20
the Winter Capital Projects
Fund.
3.	1972-73 $183,622.61 1973-74	209,096.32
The above amounts represent salaries and associated cost involved in the departmental information program for publications on the department and the economy presentation of the budget, response to oral and written inquiries, printing and distribution of policy statements and announcements, etc.
Order Paper Questions



DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE-BILINGUAL POSITIONS

Mr. Herbert: How many positions in the Department of Agriculture are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?


Hon. Jean Chretien (President of Treasury Board):: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: Agriculture: Number of bilingual positions, 1,760; number filled by bilinguals, 458; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 141. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.



DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNICATIONS-BILINGUAL POSITIONS

Mr. Herbert: How many positions in the Department of Communications are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: Communications: Number of bilingual positions 863; number filled by bilinguals 216; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals 41. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.



DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE-BILINGUAL POSITIONS

Mr. Herbert: How many positions in the Department of National Defence are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: National Defence: Number of bilingual positions, 3,646; number filled by bilinguals, 1,013; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 283. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the

January 22, 1975
Order Paper Questions
number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.



DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY, MINES AND RESOURCES- BILINGUAL POSITIONS

Mr. Herbert: 
Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: Energy, Mines and Resources: Number of bilingual positions, 1,329; number filled by bilinguals, 371; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 41. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.



DEPARTMENT OF THE ENVIRONMENT-BILINGUAL POSITIONS

['Agreed.']
Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: Environment: Number of bilingual positions, 2,109; number filled by bilinguals, 379; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 360. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.



Mr. Herbert: How many positions in the Department of External Affairs are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: External Affairs: Number of bilingual positions, 495; number filled by bilinguals, 166; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 8. Comments: There is a dis-

crepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.


DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE-BILINGUAL POSITIONS
Mr. Herbert: How many positions in the Department of Finance are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission 4s bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: Finance: Number of bilingual positions, 469; number filled by bilinguals, 188; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 6. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.


DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND WELFARE-BILINGUAL POSITIONS
Mr. Herbert: How many positions in the Department of National Health and Welfare are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: Health and Welfare: Number of bilingual positions, 2,588; number filled by bilinguals, 699; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 74. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.


DEPARTMENT OF INDIAN AFFAIRS AND NORTHERN DEVELOPMENT-BILINGUAL POSITIONS
Mr. Herbert: How many positions in the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: Indian Affairs: Number of bilingual positions, 1,550; number filled by bilinguals, 335; number filled by
January 22, 1975

self-proclaimed bilinguals, 158. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.


DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE-BILINGUAL POSITIONS
Mr. Herbert: How many positions in the Department of Justice are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: Justice: Number of bilingual positions, 448; number filled by bilinguals, 199; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 38. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.


DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR-BILINGUAL POSITIONS
Mr. Herbert: How many positions in the Department of Labour are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: Labour: Number of bilingual positions, 421; number filled by bilinguals, 160; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 6. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.


DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS-BILINGUAL POSITIONS
Mr. Herbert: How many positions in the Department of Public Works are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: Public Works: Number of bilingual positions, 1,932; number filled by bilinguals, 164; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 257. Comments: There is a disorder Paper Questions
crepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.


DEPARTMENT OF REGIONAL ECONOMIC EXPANSION-BILINGUAL POSITIONS
Mr. Herbert: How many positions in the Department of Regional Economic Expansion are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: Statistics for the Department of Regional Economic Expansion are not available at this time due to the recent reorganization in this department.


DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL REVENUE-BILINGUAL POSITIONS
Mr. Herbert: How many positions in the Department of National Revenue are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: National Revenue: (a) Customs and Excise: Number of bilingual positions, 3,082; number filled by bilinguals, 2,315; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 41. (b) Taxation: Number of bilingual positions, 2,429; number filled by bilinguals, 1,200; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 39. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.


MINISTRY OF STATE FOR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY-BILINGUAL POSITIONS
Mr. Herbert: How many positions in the Ministry of State for Science and Technology are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: Science and Technology: Number of bilingual positions, 127; number filled by bilinguals, 31; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 5. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by fulltime employees as shown above. This discrepancy results

January 22, 1975
Order Paper Questions
from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.


DEPARTMENT OF SECRETARY OF STATE-BILINGUAL POSITIONS
Mr. Herbert: How many positions in the Department of the Secretary of State are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: Secretary of State: Number of bilingual positions, 2,676; number filled by bilinguals, 1,426; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 31. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.


DEPARTMENT OF SOLICITOR GENERAL-BILINGUAL POSITIONS
Mr. Herbert: How many positions in the Department of the Solicitor General are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: Solicitor General: Number of bilingual positions, 137; number filled by bilinguals, 61; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 0. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.


DEPARTMENT OF SUPPLY AND SERVICES-BILINGUAL POSITIONS
Mr. Herbert: How many positions in the Department of Supply and Services and the Receiver General for Canada are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to, be bilingual is as follows:
(a) Supply and Services:
Number of bilingual positions Number filled by bilinguals Number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals		2,992 949 49
(b) Receiver General		
Number of bilingual positions	1,279	**Number filled by bilinguals	534	**Number filled by self proclaimed bilinguals	36	**
"Statistics for the Receiver General's Office are supplied by the Department of Supply and Services and represent the situation as of September 30, 1974. It should be noted that these statistics are already included in the total for the Department of Supply and Services.
Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.


DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT-BILINGUAL POSITIONS
Mr. Herbert: How many positions in the Department of Transport are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: Transport: Number of bilingual positions, 3,407; number filled by bilinguals, 990; number filled by self proclaimed bilinguals, 209. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by fulltime employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.


TREASURY BOARD-BILINGUAL POSITIONS
Mr. Herbert: How many positions in the Treasury Board Secretariat are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: Treasury Board Secretariat: Number of bilingual positions, 633; number filled by bilinguals, 229; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 4. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.

January 22, 1975


DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS-BILINGUAL POSITIONS
Mr. Herbert: How many positions in the Department of Veterans Affairs are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: Veterans Affairs: Number of bilingual positions, 1,343; number filled by bilinguals, 585; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 64. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.


DEPARTMENT OF CONSUMER AND CORPORATE AFFAIRS- BILINGUAL POSITIONS
Mr. Herbert: 1.	How many positions in the Department of Consumer and Corporate Affairs are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?
2.	How many positions are designated as bilingual in establishments of this Department on the Island of Montreal?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: Consumer and Corporate Affairs: 1. Number of bilingual positions, 968; number filled by bilinguals, 385; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 4.
2.	Number of bilingual positions in the establishments on the island of Montreal (and including other parts of the Montreal region) 107. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.


DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRY, TRADE AND COMMERCE-BILINGUAL POSITIONS
Mr. Herbert: 1.	How many positions in the Department of Industry, Trade and Commerce are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?
2.	How many positions are designated as bilingual in establishments of this Department on the Island of Montreal?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: Industry, Trade and Commerce: 1. Number of
Order Paper Questions
bilingual positions, 1,267; number filled by bilinguals, 422; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 1.
2.	Number of bilingual positions in the establishments on the island of Montreal (including other parts of the Montreal region), 18. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.


DEPARTMENT OF MANPOWER AND IMMIGRATION-BILINGUAL POSITIONS
Mr. Herbert: 1.	How many positions in the Department of Manpower and Immigration are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?
2.	How many positions are designated as bilingual in establishments of this Department on the Island of Montreal?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: Manpower and Immigration: 1. Number of bilingual positions, 2,647; number filled by bilinguals, 918; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 299.
2.	Number of bilingual positions in the establishments on the island of Montreal (including other parts of the Montreal region), 810. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.


POST OFFICE DEPARTMENT-BILINGUAL POSITIONS
Mr. Herbert: 1.	How many positions in the Post Office Department are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?
2.	How many positions are designated as bilingual in establishments of this Department on the Island of Montreal?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: Post Office: 1. Number of bilingual, 3,390; number filled by bilinguals, 1,453; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 333.
2.	Number of bilingual positions in the establishments on the island of Montreal (including other parts of the Montreal region), 980. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.

January 22, 1975
Order Paper Questions


MINISTRY OF STATE FOR URBAN AFFAIRS-BILINGUAL POSITIONS
Mr. Herbert: 1.	How many positions in the Ministry of State for Urban Affairs are designated as bilingual and, of these, how many are presently filled by bilingual persons?
2.	How many positions are designated as bilingual in establishments of this Department on the Island of Montreal?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The number of bilingual positions and the number of these positions presently filled by persons who have been tested by the Public Service Commission as bilingual or who have not yet been tested but claim to be bilingual is as follows: Urban Affairs: 1. Number of bilingual positions, 223; number filled by bilinguals, 48; number filled by self-proclaimed bilinguals, 1.
2. There are no establishments of this department on the island of Montreal. Comments: There is a discrepancy of approximately 20 per cent between the number of bilingual positions established and those filled by full-time employees as shown above. This discrepancy results from some positions being vacant while others are occupied by term-employees.


GRANTS TO NORTHWOOD INDUSTRIES AT SLAVE LAKE, ALBERTA
Mr. Elzinga: 1.	Will the Minister of Regional Economic Expansion advise how much moneys in the way of grants and loans were given to the Northwood Industries at Slave Lake, Alberta?
2.	On what date were these moneys paid?
3.	Were any of such loans repaid and, if so, on what date?
4.	Are there any unpaid or overdue loans and, if so, what moneys are to be repaid?


Mr. Joseph-Philippe Guay (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Regional Economic Expansion):: 1. Funds provided to Northwood Industries, Slave Lake, Alberta (a) Special Area Grant-$48,053.00; (b) Loan-Nil.
2.	$48,053.00 was paid on August 2, 1973.
3.	No loans were made, therefore, no repayment required.
4.	No loans were made, therefore, there are no overdue loans to be repaid.


ACCESS ROUTES TO MIRABEL AIRPORT
Mr. Herbert: 1.	Are there any discussions with the Government of the Province of Quebec that are continuing or anticipated, concerning cost sharing of access routes to Mirabel Airport?
2.	Has there been any exchange of views on the location of a bridge over the Ottawa River?
3.	Would the attitude on cost sharing change if a bridge joined the Province of Quebec to the Province of Ontario rather than two locations in the Province of Quebec?


Mitchell William Sharp: I am informed by the Departments of Regional Economic Expansion and Public Works as follows: 1. Following the discussions with the province of Quebec under the Cana-
	.
da-Quebec Agreement on the Montreal New International Airport Special Area, the following commitments were taken by the Department of Regional Economic Expansion for cost sharing of access routes to Mirabel Airport:
Following the discussions with the province of Quebec under the Canada-Quebec Agreement on the Montreal New International Airport Special Area, the following commitments were taken by the Department of Regional Economic Expansion for cost sharing of access routes to Mirabel Airport:
Total	Grant	Loan$	$	$Autoroute 13	30,000,000	30,000,000	-Autoroute G40	17,773,000	13,037,000	4,736,000Autoroute015	1,753,000	1,753,000	-Autoroute 50	1,905,000	-	1,905,000Highway 8	771,000	771,000	-Highway 117	6,796,000	5,046,000	1,750,00058,998,000	50,607,000	8,391,0002.	No.3.	Generally the costs of an intraprovincial bridge are not shared between governments W'hereas in principle the costs of interprovincial bridges have been shared.


CONSTRUCTION OF HEAVY WATER PLANT AT GENTILLY
Mr. Lambert (Bellechasse): 1.	Has the construction of a heavy water plant at Gentilly, announced last year, been completed?
2.	To date, how much money has been spent on this project?
3.	On what date will the plant be ready for production?


Hon. Donald S. Macdonald (Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources):: Atomic Energy of Canada Limited reports as follows: 1. No.
2.	Approximately $11 million.
3.	1978/79.


REPRINTING OF POLITICAL ADDRESS BY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE AT NORFOLK-HALDIMAND AND SWIFT CURRENT-MAPLE CREEK
Mr. Cossitt: 1.	With reference to the answer to Question No. 31, what are the reasons that information requested in Parts (a) and (b) was not given?
2.	Who specifically paid the cost of copies of speeches printed on Agriculture Canada paper made by the Minister of Agriculture to the annual meeting of the Norfolk-Haldimand Liberal Party on Friday, February 22, 1974 and the Swift Current-Maple Creek Federal Liberal Association on Monday, February 18,1974?
3.	On what dates were payments received by the government for such printing and how much was received in each case?
4.	What was the exact date that the Minister stopped printing and circulating at public expense copies of his political speeches to Liberal Party meetings?
5.	Did the Minister stop printing such speeches at public expense due to objections received in regard to such use of public funds?
January 22, 1975


Eugene Whelan: 1. The
answers to Questions Nos. 126 and 127 of the Second Session of the 29th Parliament stated the Minister of Agriculture did not make a political address to the Nor-folk-Haldimand Liberal Party and the Swift Current-Maple Creek Liberal Association. However, the Minister delivered an address to both meetings covering agricultural policies, programs and proposals. This was the reason for answering Question No. 31 with a general statement.
2.	Agriculture Canada.
3.	Not applicable.
4.	Not applicable.
5.	Not applicable.


NATIONAL DEFENCE-ENTITLED STUDENTS
Mr. Forrestall: 1.	Since its inception, by year, how many students at what grade levels have been enrolled as entitled students as approved by the Department of National Defence in francophone sections of Canadian schools?
2.	How is an entitled pupil defined by the Department for the purposes of enrollment in such francophone sections?


James Armstrong Richardson: 1. Since 1969, when francophone sections in DND dependants' schools were first introduced enrollments have been as follows:
School year	No. of Students	Grade Levels1969/70	873	Kindergarden-Grade 71970/71	896	" -Grade 71971/72	849	" -Grade 71972/73	751	" -Grade 71973/74	1028	" -Grade 91974/75	1141	" -Grade 9
2. An entitled pupil is defined as a child of a family of a member of the Canadian Forces in which at least one parent is francophone.


DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE-CONTRACTS WITH LAPOINTE TRANSPORT LTD.
Mr. Grafftey: 1.	What transport contracts have been awarded by the Department of Finance to Lapointe Transport Ltd., 105 Industriel Blvd., Longueuil, Quebec, since January 1, 1972?
2.	What was the amount of the contract in each case?
3.	Were public tenders called in each case and, if not, for what reason?


John Napier Turner: 1. None 2. Not applicable.
Order Paper Questions
3.	Not applicable.


DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRY, TRADE AND COMMERCETRAVELLING EXPENDITURES
Mr. Stevens: 1.	In each fiscal year ending March 31, 1972, 1973 and 1974, and for the six month period ending September 30, 1974, what was the aggregate expenditure by the Department of Industry, Trade and Commerce for travel abroad by (a) the Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce and his immediate staff (b) departmental staff (c) the staff of Crown corporations reporting to the Minister?
2.	In the case of an expenditure in excess of $200 (a) what was the purpose of the foreign trip (b) where was it (c) who made it (d) how long was the person(s) outside the country (e) what was the nature of the expenditure (f) how many made the trip?


Gaston Clermont: The
request for information is not readily available. To provide an accurate reply it would cost an estimated $16,000 as well as hiring additional staff to carry out the research.


GREATER MONCTON METROPOLITAN PLAN
Mr. Jones: 1.	What financial or other assistance is available to the City of Moncton and the adjoining municipalities to implement the Greater Moncton Metropolitan Plan?
2.	What are the details of the steps required to be followed to obtain financial and technical assistance?


Joseph-Phillippe Guay: The
Greater Moncton Metropolitan Plan is a comprehensive document that outlines the needs, growth and shape of the Greater Moncton area to 1992. Financial assistance has been and is being provided under the existing Special Areas Agreement to assist in implementing a large number of infrastructure projects recommended by the plan (senior vocational high schools, industrial parks, rail relocation investigation, water transmission improvement, etc.). Technical assistance in implementing the plan is now under discussion with provincial officials, and DREE cost-sharing is now being considered for Urban Planning and Industrial Commission staff support. The elements involved in implementing a metropolitan plan are numerous and varied. Many are within the existing technical and financial capabilities of the communities. Some may be eligible for financial and/or technical assistance through existing provincial, federal-provincial, or federal programs that are known in detail to community officials. The steps to be followed depend upon the nature of the element. Advice on specific steps to be followed will be provided by departmental officials.


CMHC-FINANCING OF MOBILE HOMES
Mr. Brisco: 1.	Is CMHC financing or considering the financing under any program of mobile homes?
2.	Are there any set guidelines for mobile home construction under the National Housing Act or any other act and, if not, are they being considered by the Ministry?

January 22, 1975
Order Paper Questions


Barnett Jerome Danson: 1. Mobile homes are eligible for financing under the provisions of the National Housing Act, provided that the installation and maintenance of all services in a mobile home development comply with the codes and regulations of provincial or municipal governing bodies and, where the lot is leased, the term of the lease is at least five years longer than term of mortgage.
2. The standards of construction for housing, prescribed by C.M.H.C. for use under the NHA, are those contained in the Canadian Code for Residential Construction and the National Building Code of Canada, which are published by the Associate Committee on the National Building Code. The standards apply to all new housing financed under the NHA, both those built on site and those, including mobile homes, which are built in plants.


DEFERRED PAYMENTS TO GRAIN PRODUCERS
Mr. Nystrom: 1.	With respect to deferred payments to grain producers, which of the following bodies earns the interest on those monies (a) the government (b) the grain companies (c) the Canadian Wheat Board?
2.	As of October 1, 1974, how much interest was earned on this Fund?


Otto Emil Lang: 1. When a producer sells wheat, oats or barley to the Canadian Wheat Board on a deferred basis the Wheat Board earns interest on the amount of money deferred from the date that the grain is sold to the board until the date that the producer indicates he will receive the cash. On grain sold to the grain companies on a deferred basis the grain companies earn the interest.
2. As the board have no record of sales made by producers to grain companies it is not possible to determine the total amount of interest earned on deferred transactions. However, the interest earned on board transactions is available and as at September 30, 1974 stands at $15,540,000.


SIGNING OF CORRESPONDENCE BY UNILINGUAL PUBLIC SERVANTS
Mr. Herbert: Are unilingual public servants in non-designated positions required to sign correspondence in both official languages?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: No.


PUBLIC SERVANTS
Mr. Nystrom: 1.	Does the Public Service Commission in its annual report for 1973-1974 state that the total number of employees within the government, under the Public Service Employment Act, was 222,550 full-time and 20,416 term and part-time (of more than 6 months) and, if so, for what reason did the Treasury Board in its latest How Your Tax Dollar is Spent booklet (April, 1974) state that the Public Service had 284 members under the Public Service Employment Act?
2.	As of June 30, 1974, how many Public Service employees, employed by the government under terms of the Public Service Employment Act, were located in the areas (a) Ottawa-Hull (b) British Columbia (c) Alberta (d) Saskatchewan (e) Manitoba (f) Ontario (excluding Ottawa) (g) Quebec (excluding Hull) (h) New Brunswick (i) Prince

Edward Island (j) Nova Scotia (k) Newfoundland (1) Yukon (m) Northwest Territories?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: 1.
Yes, the 1973 Annual Report of the Public Service Commission of Canada gives the number of employees as at December 31, 1973, subject to the Public Service Employment Act as follows: Indeterminate Full-time-222,550. Term (more than 6 months)-15,944; Part-time (more than 6 months)-4,472; Total; 20,416. The booklet, "How Your Tax Dollar is Spent", published by the Treasury Board in April, 1974, states that the number of man-years authorized for the fiscal year 1974-75 is 284,265 for the Public Service. This figure thus indicates the level of utilization of man-years approved by Treasury Board for all programs and takes into account all categories of employees: indeterminate, term, seasonal, casual, full-time or parttime. It does not express the number of employees on strength. Therefore, the figure cannot be compared with the number of employees listed in the Commission's Annual Report for 1973, as this constitutes a summary of persons employed as at December 31, 1973.
2. The Personnel Application Centre, Department of Supply and Services, shows the following distribution by region as at June 30, 1974, for employees hired pursuant to the Public Service Employment Act: Ottawa-Hull, 66,369; British Columbia, 25,497; Alberta, 16,109; Saskatchewan, 6,870; Manitoba, 11,065; Ontario, (excluding Ottawa), 54,434; Quebec (excluding Hull), 40,715; New Brunswick, 7,306; Prince Edward Island, 1,264; Nova Scotia, 14,915; Newfoundland, 4,882; Yukon and the Northwest Territories, 2,162, of which total approximately 35 per cent work in the Yukon and 65 per cent in the Northwest Territories, on the basis of partial data; and outside Canada, 3,339. We thus have a total of 254,927 employees for the Public Service.


CBC-DECISION ON COMMUNITY ACCESS TO CBC TRANSMITTERS
Mr. Reid: 1.	Is CRTC aware of the decision by CBC on community access to CBC transmitters?
2.	Has CRTC prepared procedures to license community groups seeking access to CBC transmitters?
3.	Have these procedures been published and, if not, on what date will they be?
4.	How long is it anticipated it will take for these applications to be processed?


Gérard Pelletier: 1. The Canadian Radio-Television Commission has received a report on this subject, but has not been advised by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation as to whether its policy can be implemented yet.
2.	The commission has done considerable work on the question. It would be in a position to implement a licensing procedure as soon as a formal policy is adopted.
3.	Procedures have not been published. The commission understands that the CBC statement is the basis for a general policy and that no funds have been allocated for its implementation. If the government decides to establish a funding mechanism the commission would introduce
January 22, 1975

appropriate licensing procedures consistent with the Broadcasting Act without delay. These would probably be the subject of a public announcement.
4.	In the event that a government policy were introduced, it would be the intention of the commission to deal with any applications as expeditiously as possible.


UNLAWFUL STRIKES IN PUBLIC SERVICE
Mr. Robinson: Will the government advise of its program to stop unlawful strikes in the public service in terms of the fact they damage the economy and stability of the country and make a mockery of collective agreements?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The vast majority of Public Service employees and employee organizations have respected the provisions in the Public Service Staff Relations Act and the relevant articles in collective agreements, and have not engaged in unlawful strikes. There have been, however, a number of unlawful strikes, which have inconvenienced the public and disrupted the economy. On May 4, 1974, my predecessor, the Hon. C. M. Drury, wrote to all Public Service bargaining agents, outlining the government's intention as employer to deal forcefully with any future unlawful strikes. Since then, we have sought consent from the Public Service Staff Relations Board to initiate prosecutions with respect to several recent unlawful work stoppages. The government intends to continue to use such measures to deal with unlawful strikes, and to ensure that the law is respected and collective agreements honoured.


ANALYSIS OF CANADA'S INFLATION FACTORS
Mr. Robinson: Will the government consider the advisability of undertaking a detailed analysis of Canada's inflation factors in order to isolate that portion of the problem which is important and that portion which can be addressed by domestic fiscal and monetary provisions?


John Napier Turner: It is presumed that the question relates to the advisability of analyzing what portion of the inflation problem is "imported" rather than "important". In the budget speech of November 18, the changing character of inflation in Canada was discussed. This discussion and the economic policy of the government are based upon extensive analysis of the many factors contributing to present inflationary conditions.


BANK OF CANADA
Mr. Caouette (Temiscamingue): For each of the past ten financial years (a) what sums did the Bank of Canada receive as interest payments on its holdings of government securities (b) what sums from the rest fund of the Bank of Canada were placed to the credit of the Consolidated Revenue Fund (c) what sums did the Bank of Canada loan to the chartered banks against the securities they hold and what was the average period to maturity of these loans?


John Napier Turner: Order Paper Questions		
(a) 1964	$131,099,089	1969	$234,791,5651965	144,013,154	1970	261,159,7181966	159,632,177	1971	279,248 ,'0331967	181,524,214	1972	314,183,2631968	191,530,566	1973	377,504,244(h) None. The rest fund for Bank of Canada was unchanged during	the period as the profits for the Bank were transferred directly	to the Consolidated Revenue Fund, as follows:	1964	$128,237,791	1969	$228,734,7131965	143,106,338	1970	250,293,4631966	150,584,613	1971	265,494,3481967	177,024,221	1972	301,073,1161968	186,154,859	1973	372,938,279(c)	Amount Average Term	1964	$ 900,000	7.0 days1965	95,250,000	7.0 days1966	3,000,000	7.0 days1967	34,600,000	7.5 days1968	13,500,000	7.0 days1989	120,100,000	2.8 days1970	175,800,000	2.7 days1971	132,900,000	2.3 days1972	187,550,000	2.8 days1973	377,390,000	2.3 days


UIC-NUMBER OF PERSONNEL
Mr. Stevens: 1.	As of March 31 in each year 1968, 1970, 1972 and 1974 (a) how many were employed by the Unemployment Insurance Commission (b) what would have been their aggregate salaries if all were employed for a full year (c) how many had salary levels of (i) $20,000 or more (ii) $35,000 or more (iii) $50,000 or more?
2.	What was the salary or the salary range for each of the five highest paid employees of the Commission?


Robert Knight Andras: Insofar as the Unemployment Insurance Commission is concerned:
1.
(a)	1968	1970	1972	19745,918	5,421	11,506	10,881(b)	1968	1970	1972	1974$37,593,822 $60,924,000	$116,197,740	$151,928,400	(c)	1968	1970	1972	1974$20,000 or more:	8	8	32	113$35,000 or more:	0	0	1	2$50,000 or more:	0	0	0	0
January 22, 1975
Order Paper Questions
2.	Salary range lor the five highest paid employees of UIC: $ $
31-03-74: DM1-35,750 - 43,750 SX3-30,250 - 38,250 SX2-26,750 - 33,750
31-03-72:	DM1-34,000 - 40,000


SX3-28,000 - 35,000 SX2-25,000 - 31,000 SX1-22,000 - 28,000
[Stage Direction]
31-03-70:	DM1-29,000 - 35,000

[Stage Direction]
31-03-68: DM1-26,500 - 27,500 SX2-19,000 - 24,750 SX1-17,000 - 22,500

Mr. Stevens: 1.	As of March 31 in each year 1968, 1970, 1972 and 1974 (a) how many were employed by the Northern Canada Power Commission (b) what would have been their aggregate salaries if all were employed for a full year (c) how many had salary levels of (i) $20,000 or more (ii) $35,000 or more (iii) $50,000 or more?
2.	What was the salary or the salary range for each of the five highest paid employees of the Commission?


Hon. Judd Buchanan (Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development):: 1. March 31, 1968
(a) 271	(b) $2.:	5 Million	(c) None.		
March 3]	1, 1970				
(a) 290	(b) $3.1	2 Million	(c) 0)4	(ii) none	(iii) none
March 31, 1972					
(a) 315	(b) $4.:	2 Million	(c) (i)6	(ii) none	(iii) none
March 31	1, 1974				
(a) 311	(b) $4.8 Million	(c) (i) 5	(ii) 1	(iii) noneMarch 31	l, 1968	March 31, 1970	March 31	, 1972$13,301-	$15,005	$15,050-	-$17,100	$22,000-	$28,000$13,301-	$15,005	$17,688-	-$20,100	$22,000-	$28,000$13,301-	$15,005	$17,688-	-$20,100	$22,000-	$28,000$16,501t	$18,103	$17,688-	-$20,100	$22,000-	$28,000$17,408-	$18,646	$21,000-	-$25,000	$25,000-	$31,000
March 31, 1974 $25,500-$32,500 $25,500-$32,500 $25,500-$32,500 $25,500-$32,500 $29,000-$37,000


INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT BANK PERSONNEL
Mr. Stevens: 1.	As of March 31 in each year 1968, 1970, 1972 and 1974 (a) how many were employed by the Industrial Development Bank (b) what would have been their aggregate salaries if all were employed for a full year (c) how many had salary levels of (i) $20,000 or more (ii) $35,000 or more (iii) $50,000 or more?
2.	What was the salary or the salary range for each of the five highest paid employees of the Bank?


John Napier Turner: 1. (a) and
(b) Information on the number of staff at the fiscal year end, September 30, is published in the annual reports of the Industrial Development Bank as are actual expenditures on salaries.
(c) and 2. It has not been the practice to answer detailed questions concerning the internal administration of the Industrial Development Bank inasmuch as the Industrial Development Bank Act places the responsibility for its management in the hands of its board of directors.


CROWN ASSETS DISPOSAL CORPORATION PERSONNEL
Mr. Stevens: 1.	As of March 31 in each year 1968, 1970, 1972 and 1974 (a) how many were employed by the Crown Assets Disposal Corporation (b) what would have been their aggregate salaries if all were employed for a full year (c) how many had salary levels of (i) $20,000 or more (ii) $35,000 or more (iii) $50,000 or more?
2.	What was the salary or the salary range of each of the five highest paid employees of the Corporation?


Jean-Pierre Goyer: 1.	1968 1970	1972	1974(a)	119 112	105	92(b) $719,112 $965,776	$975,793	$1,041,142(c) (i)	2 5	7	8(ii)	Nil Nil	Nil	Nil(iii)	Nil Nil	Nil	Nil$	$	$	$2. 25,000-28,000	27,000-30,000	28,000-33,000	28,000-33,00020,000-23,000	22,000-27,000	22,000-27,000	22,000-27,00017,788-21,428	20,000-25,000	20,000-25,000	20,000-25,00017,788-21,428	20,000-25,000	20,000-25,000	20,000-25,00014,441-16,409	20,300-23,000	20,300-23,000	20,300-23,000


CANADIAN SALTFISH CORPORATION PERSONNEL
Mr. Stevens: 1.	As of March 31 in each year 1968, 1970, 1972 and 1974 (a) how many were employed by the Canadian Saltfish Corporation (b) what would have been their aggregate salaries if all were employed for a full year (c) how many had salary levels of (i) $20,000 or more (ii) $35,000 or more (iii) $50,000 or more?
2.	What was the salary or the salary range for each of the five highest paid employees of the Corporation?


Mr. Len Marchand (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of the Environment):: 1. (a) (b) (c) Date	(a)	(b)	(c)(i)	(c) (ii)	(c) (iii)March 31, 1968	nil	nil	nil	nil	nilMarch 31, 1970	nil	nil	nil	nil	nilMarch 31, 1972	28	$221,324	2	nil	nilMarch 31, 1974	29	$312,918	2	nil	nil
January 22, 1975

2.	As of March 31, 1974,
1.	$29,000-137,000
2.	$25,000-$30,000
3.	$19,101-$21,704
4.	$17,153-$19,494
5.	$16,373-$18,573


CANADIAN LIVESTOCK FEED BOARD PERSONNEL
[Stage Direction]
Order Paper Questions

Mr. Stevens: 1.	As of March 31 in each year 1968, 1970, 1972 and 1974 (a) how many were employed by the Canadian Film Development Corporation (b) what would have been their aggregate salaries if all were employed for a full year (c) how many had salary levels of (i) $20,000 or more (ii) $35,000 or more (iii) $50,000 or more?
2.	What was the salary or the salary range for each of the five highest paid employees of the Corporation?

Question No. 823-Mr. Stevens:
1.	As of March 31 in each year 1968, 1970, 1972 and 1974 (a) how many were employed by the Canadian Livestock Feed Board (b) what would have been their aggregate salaries if all were employed for a full year (c) how many had salary levels of (i) $20,000 or more (ii) $35,000 or more (iii) $50,000 or more?
2.	What was the salary or the salary range for each of the five highest paid employees of the Board?


Eugene Whelan: 1.	March 31, March 31, March 31, March 31,
1968	1970	1972	1974(a)	9 12	*20	22(b)	$70,915 $127,21	1 $201,891	$286,241(c)	(i)	0 1	1	4(ii)	0 0	0	0(iii)	0 0	0	02. 1	$16,206-18,180	$18,294-20,523	$19,575-21,960	$22,200-27,8002	13,500-14,000	12,887-16,918	16,690-18,964	23,095-25,9093	8,642- 9,247	15,229	14,988-17,031	19,533-22,1974	8,292- 8,911	15,299	14,988-17,031	19,101-21,7045	6,615- 7,304	9,247-10,873	11,034-12,538	17,153-19,492
* The 1972 increase in personnel represents the transfer of pre-audit employees from the Department of Supply and Services as recommended by the Glassco Commission.


CANADIAN GOVERNMENT ELEVATORS PERSONNEL
Mr. Stevens: 1.	As of March 31 in each year 1968, 1970,1972 and 1974 (a) how many were employed by Canadian Government Elevators (b) what would have been their aggregate salaries if all were employed for a full year (c) how many had salary levels of (i) $20,000 or more (ii) $35,000 or more (iii) $50,000 or more?
2.	What was the salary or the salary range for each of the five highest paid employees of the Corporation?


Eugene Whelan: 


Hon. James Hugh Faulkner (Secretary of State):: As of
March 31, 1968: Not applicable
As of March 31, 1970
1.	(a) 9
(b)	$75,006.06
(c)	(i)	1
(ii)	None
(iii)	None
2.	1-$20,000-$25,000 2-$ 9,000-$11,000 2-$ 6,500-$ 8,999
As of March 31, 1972
1.	(a) 14
(b)	$139,216.65
(c)	(i) 1
(ii)	None
(iii)	None
2.	1- $25,000-$30,000
2-	$14,000-$17,000 1 -$12,000 -$14,000
3-	$10,000 -$12,000
As of March 31, 1974
1.	(a) 14
(b)	$162,007.48
(c)	(i)	2
(ii)	None
(iii)	None
2.	1- $28,000-$33,000 1-$20,000-$25,000 3-$15,000-$20,000


CANADIAN DAIRY COMMISSION PERSONNEL
Mr. Stevens: 1- (a)	1968, 180;	1970, 173;	1972, 221	and	1974, 290(b)	$1,193,000;	$1,505,000;	$1,413,000	and	$1,970,000(c)	(i)	Nil	1	1	and	1(ii)	Nil	Nil	Nil	and	Nil(iii)	Nil	Nil	Nil	and	Nil2.	1968	1970	1972,	19741.	As of March 31 in each year 1968, 1970, 1972 and 1974 (a) how many were employed by the Canadian Dairy Commission (b) what would have been their aggregate salaries if all were employed for a full year (c) how many had salary levels of (i) $20,000 or more (ii) $35,000 or more (iii) $50,000 or more?2.	What was the salary or the salary range for each of the five highest paid employees of the Commission?


Eugene Whelan: 1	$16,906-19,211	$19,100-21,700 $19,400-24,200 $22,200-27,8002	11,096-12,608	13,403-15,229	14,988-17,031	17,153-19,492	i.	(a)	(b)	(C)(i)	(ii)	(iii)3	8,693- 9,878	10,500-11,931	11,742-13,343	13,439-15,271	4	$ 5. 64 per hr.	6.40 per hr.	6.78 per hr.	7.88 per hr.	1968	12	$166,000	4	Nil	Nil5	4.83 per hr.	5.68 per hr.	6.03 per hr.	7.06 per hr.	1970	28	289,000	4	Nil	Nil
January 22, 1975
Order Paper Questions
1972	35	387,000	5	Nil	Nil	As ot March 31,	As of March	As of March	As of March1974	37	419,800	5	Nil	Nil	1968	31, 1970	31, 1972	31, 19741968	1970	1972	1974	2. $26,500 25,250	$29,000-$35,000* 24,000- 30,000	$26,000-132,500" 26,000- 32,500	$35,750-$43,750 30,250- 38,2501.	$22,000-27,000	$22,000-27,000	$25,000-31,000	$25,000-31,000	22,400 21,500	24.000-	30,000 22.000-	27,000	26.000-	32,500 22.000-	27,000	30.250-	38,250 30.250-	38,2502.	20,000-25,000	22,000-27,000	25,000-31,000	23,500-30,000	20,000	20,000- 25,000	22,000- 27,000	26,750- 33,7503. 4.	20.000-	25,000 18.000-	23,000	20.000-	25,000 20.000-	25,000	22,000-28,000 22,000-28,000	23.500-	30,000 23.500-	30,000	'Salary ranges were set up in 1970.	5.	14,000-16,000	16,000-19,000	20,750-23,280	23,500-30,000	**There was no Council Director	on March 31, 1972.


CBC-SALARIES OF PERSONNEL
Mr. Stevens: 1.	As of March 31 in each year 1968, 1970, 1972 and 1974 (a) how many were employed by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (b) what would have been their aggregate salaries if all were employed for a full year (c) how many had salary levels of (i) $20,000 or more (ii) $35,000 or more (iii) $50,000 or more?
2.	What was the salary or the salary range for each of the five highest paid employees of the Corporation?


James Hugh Faulkner: 1. (a) 1968-9058 1970-8964 1972-9168 1974-9842
(b) 1968 -$67,403,000 1970 -$80,606,000 1972-$94,502,000 1974 -$117,879,000
1968	1970	1972	1974(i) $20,000 or more	34	115	247	544(ii)$35,000 or more	1	2	6	23(iii) $50,000 or more	0	1	1	22.	It has not been customary to require the CBC to disclose such details of its internal management and administration.


CANADA COUNCIL SALARIES OF PERSONNEL
Mr. Stevens: 1.	As of March 31 in each year 1968, 1970, 1972 and 1974 (a) how many were employed by the Canada Council (b) what would have been their aggregate salaries if all were employed for a full year (c) how many had salary levels of (i) $20,000 or more (ii) $35,000 or more (iii) $50,000 or more?
2.	What was the salary or the salary range for each of the five highest paid employees of the Council?


James Hugh Faulkner: As of March	As of March	As of March	As of March31, 1968	31, 1970	31, 1972	31, 19741. (a)	84	107	128	217(b)	$666,255	$939,000	$1,246,290	$2,470,283(c)	(i)	5	7	11	22(ii)	Nil	Nil	Nil	1(iii)	Nil	Nil	Nil	Nil


BANK OF CANADA PERSONNEL
Mr. Stevens: 1.	As of March 31 in each year 1968, 1970, 1972 and 1974 (a) how many were employed by the Bank of Canada (b) what would have been their aggregate salaries if all were employed for a full year (c) how many had salary levels of (i) $20,000 or more (ii) $35,000 or more (iii) $50,000 or more?
2.	What was the salary or the salary range for each of the five highest paid employees of the Bank?


John Napier Turner: 1.	(a) and (b).
Information on the average number of staff and actual expenditures on salaries is published in the Annual Reports of the Governor of the Bank of Canada.
1.	(c) and 2.
The Bank of Canada Act provides that "subject to the approval of the Governor-in-Council" the Governor and Senior Deputy Governor "shall be paid such salaries as the directors from time to time determine	Their salaries for each of the dates referred
to in the question were as follows:
March 31,	March 31,	March 31,	March 31,1968	1970	1972	1974$	$	$	$Governor	50,000	75,000	75,000	75,000Senior Deputy Governor	40,000	45,000	45,000	50,000
In respect of these questions as they apply to other employees of the Bank of Canada, it has not been the practice to answer detailed questions concerning the internal administration of the Bank of Canada inasmuch as the Bank of Canada Act places the responsibility for its management in the hands of its board of directors.


ATOMIC ENERGY OF CANADA PERSONNEL
Mr. Stevens: 1.	As of March 31 in each year 1968, 1970, 1972 and 1974 (a) how many were employed by Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd. (b) what would have been their aggregate salaries if all were employed for a full year (c) how many had salary levels of (i) $20,000 or more (ii) $35,000 or more (iii) $50,000 or more?
2.	What was the salary or the salary range for each of the five highest paid employees of the Company?


Mr. Maurice Foster (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources):: 1.

January 22, 1975

Atomic Energy of Canada Limited reports as follows;
Order Paper Questions


ATOMIC ENERGY CONTROL BOARD PERSONNEL
[Stage Direction]
Mar. 31/68	Mar. 31/70	Mar. 31/72	Mar 31/741. (a)	4,656	4,636	4,647	4,900(b)	635,141,259	*41,415,237	*48,058,318	*59,429,489(c)	(i)	12	67	126	550(ii)	1	1	5	15(iii)	-	-	1	12.	Aggregate*	*	152,000	$ 179,000	* 201,500	t 226,000* Aggregate salary is shown because information concerning salaries	
paid Atomic Energy of Canada Limited executives or groups of executives has traditionally been treated as proprietary. To reveal this information could be prejudicial to the Company's position in a highly competitive manpower market.
Mr. Stevens: 1.	As of March 31 in each year 1968, 1970, 1972 and 1974 (a) how many were employed by the Atomic Energy Control Board (b) what would have been their aggregate salaries if all were employed for a full year (c) how many had salary levels of (i) $20,000 or more (ii) $35,000 or more (iii) $50,000 or more?
2.	What was the salary or the salary range for each of the five highest paid employees of the Board?


Maurice Brydon Foster: In so far as
Atomic Energy Control Board is concerned:
March 31, 1968	March 31,1970	March 31, 1972	March 31, 19741. (a)	27	35	45	56(b)	*273,259	*431,586	*620,858	*874,895(c)	(i)	2	2	7	12(ii)	0	0	0	1(iii)	0	0	0	02.	1-*20,500-*25,750 1-	21,750- 24,000 2-	15,225- 18,735 1- 12,100- 15,010	1-*23,000-*29,000 1- 23,760- 26,100 3- 17,590- 22,000	1-*28, 000-*35,000 1- 26,185- 28,775 3- 19,394- 24,245	1-*30, 250-J38, 250 1-	28,500- 36,500 2-	27,650- 30,350 1- 21,750- 26,860


AIR CANADA-FLIGHT 864
Mr. Cossitt: 1.	What was the (a) name (b) job designation (c) length of service of each Air Canada crew member on Flight 864 from Toronto-Montreal to London, England on November 3, 1974?
2.	For what reason were many seat ash-trays, including a number in the "no smoking" section, filled with old cigarette butts when passengers boarded the aircraft?
3.	For what reason were some of the fold-out trays slopped with food from previous flights when passengers boarded the aircraft?
4.	Prior to commencement of Flight 864 (a) when exactly was the last time the aircraft was cleaned (b) by whom was it cleaned (c) under whose supervision?
5.	(a) Who cooked and supplied the dinner served on this flight (b) for what reason was the meat over-cooked and the vegetables under-cooked?
6.	Is this flight typical of Air Canada's overseas service?
7.	Has Air Canada ever made a study of KLM Royal Dutch Airlines' inflight passenger service and aircraft cleanliness with a view to correcting the inadequacies of its own?
8.	Is Air Canada's mechanical maintenance of aircraft engines, etc., conducted in comparable fashion to its inflight service and aircraft, cleanliness on Flight 864?


Mr. Cliff Mclsaac (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport):: The Management of Air Canada advises as follows: 1. It is not normal practice for Air Canada to reveal employee names or to discuss their performance in public. There were five cabin crew members on Flight 864 from Toronto to Montreal and London on November 3, with a combined total of 30 years of flying experience.
2 and 3. Because of a manpower shortage at Toronto airport prior to the departure of Flight 864 on November 3, aircraft grooming was not completed to Air Canada's normal high standards.
4.	It was decided, however, to allow the aircraft to return to service rather than delay a departure. The aircraft used on Flight 864 was last used on a flight from Frankfurt to Toronto. It was thoroughly groomed by contract employees in Frankfurt under the supervision of Air Canada employees.
5.	Air Canada endeavors to cook the food served on its flights to a degree which will appeal to the largest number of travellers. Because individual taste is involved, this unfortunately will mean undercooking to some and overcooking to others. The meal on Flight 864 was prepared by CARA.
3.	Because of the problem with cabin grooming, this flight was not up to the normal high standards established by Air Canada.
7.	Air Canada constantly reviews the service standards of all competing airlines in an ongoing effort to keep its own quality levels equal to or ahead of these other companies.
8.	Mechanical maintenance standards at Air Canada are among the highest in the world, meeting and often exceeding the standards established by the Ministry of Transport, the manufacturer and the regulatory agencies of other nations.

January 22, 1975
Order Paper Questions


IMMIGRATION-HONG KONG STATISTICS
Mr. Stollery: 1.	How many people applied in (a) nominated relative category (b) independent applicant category (c) sponsored dependent category and were successful in their applications and granted immigrant visas by the immigration authorities in Hong Kong for each month January 1973 to October 1974 inclusive?
2.	How many applications were received in total, including rejected applications, by the Hong Kong Immigration Office between (a) January 1 and December 31, 1972 (b) January 1 and December 31, 1973 (c) January 1, 1974 to date?
3.	What was the complete staff of the Canadian Immigration Office in Hong Kong on (a) December 31, 1972 (b) December 31, 1973 (c) October 31, 1974?


Robert Knight Andras: Immigrant Visas Issued to Persons by the Hong Kong Immigration Office
Nominated	Independent	SponsoredRelatives	Applicants	Dependents1973-January	461	158	187February	340	105	204March	529	232	310April	266	147	175May	812	393	402June	411	220	216July	483	238	286August	537	356	234September	821	410	318October	585	287	312November	599	378	273December	384	241	2321974-January	310	165	202February	357	229	182March	283	227	240April	330	279	177May	458	524	303June	537	545	392July	429	378	367August	272	216	221September	410	322	379October	Figures not yet available	2.	Applications received by the Hong Kong Immigration Office (each application represents about 1.8 persons).January 1-72-December 31-72	7,373January 1-73-December 31-73	12,531January 1-74-September 30-74	8,8923.	The following staff totals include Canadian as well as locally engaged staff.December 31-72	25December 31-73	25September 30-74	32


FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACT-NUMBER OF LOAN APPLICATIONS IN ELGIN CONSTITUENCY
Mr. Wise: How many applications were (a) received (b) approved (c) rejected by the chartered banks in the constituency (or County) of Elgin under the Fisheries Improvement Loans Act for each year 1970 to 1973?


John Napier Turner: The
requested data are not maintained by electoral district.


FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACT-AMOUNT OF MONEY LOANED IN ELGIN CONSTITUENCY
Mr. Wise: What were the total amounts of money lent by chartered banks in the constituency (or County) of Elgin under the Fisheries Improvement Loans Act for each year 1970 to 1973?


John Napier Turner: The
requested data are not maintained by electoral district.


FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACT-AVERAGE SIZE OF LOANS IN CONSTITUENCY OF ELGIN
Mr. Wise: What was the average size of the loans to applicants by the chartered banks in the constituency (or County) of Elgin under the Fisheries Improvement Loans Act for each year 1970 to 1973?


John Napier Turner: The
requested data are not maintained by electoral district.


FARM IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACT-NUMBER OF APPLICATIONS IN CONSTITUENCY OF ELGIN
Mr. Wise: How many applications were (a) received (b) approved (c) rejected by the chartered banks in the constituency (or County) of Elgin under the Farm Improvement Loans Act for each year 1970 to 1973?


John Napier Turner: The
requested data are not maintained by electoral district.


FARM IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACT-TOTAL AMOUNT OF LOANS IN CONSTITUENCY OF ELGIN
Mr. Wise: What were the total amounts of money lent by chartered banks in the constituency (or County) of Elgin under the Farm Improvement Loans Act for each year 1970 to 1973?


John Napier Turner: The
requested data are not maintained by electoral district.


FARM IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACT-AVERAGE SIZE OF LOANS IN CONSTITUENCY OF ELGIN
Mr. Wise: What was the average size of the loans to applicants by the chartered banks in the constituency (or County) of Elgin under the Farm Improvement Loans Act for each year 1970 to 1973?


John Napier Turner: The
requested data are not maintained by electoral district.
January 22, 1975


SMALL BUSINESSES LOANS ACT-NUMBER OF APPLICATIONS IN CONSTITUENCY OF ELGIN
Mr. Wise: How many applications were (a) received (b) approved (c) rejected by the chartered banks in the constituency (or County) of Elgin under the Small Businesses Loans Act for each year 1970 to 1973?


John Napier Turner: The
requested data are not maintained by electoral district.


BUSINESSES LOANS ACT-TOTAL AMOUNT OF MONEY LOANED IN CONSTITUENCY OF ELGIN
Mr. Wise: What were the total amounts of money lent by chartered banks in the constituency (or County) of Elgin under the Small Businesses Loans Act for each year 1970 to 1973?


John Napier Turner: The
requested data are not maintained by electoral district.


SMALL BUSINESSES LOANS ACT-AVERAGE SIZE OF LOANS IN CONSTITUENCY OF ELGIN
Mr. Wise: What was the average size of the loans to applicants by the chartered banks in the constituency (or County) of Elgin under the Small Businesses Loans Act for each year 1970 to 1973?


John Napier Turner: The
requested data are not maintained by electoral district.


AMOUNT PAID FOR DEMURRAGE ON SHIPS IN 1972-73
Mr. Stevens: 1.	In the 1972 and 1973 calendar years, what was the total amount paid by the Canadian Wheat Board for demurrage on ships recorded on pages 140 and 141 of the 1972 and 1973 International Shipping and Shipbuilding Directory as being owned by World-Wide (Shipping) Ltd. of Hong Kong, a Company in which Mr. Y. K. Pao is a Director and a substantial shareholder?
2.	Are there any outstanding claims for demurrage on such ships and, if so, what is the aggregate amount of such claims?


Otto Emil Lang: 1. The amount of demurrage paid on ships recorded on pages 140 and 141 of the 1972 and 1973 International Shipping and Shipbuilding Directory as being owned by World-Wide (Shipping) Ltd. of Hong Kong for calendar years 1972 and 1973 is as follows: 1972, $17,692.96; 1973, Nil.
2.	All claims received by the board have been finalized.


AMOUNT PAID FOR DEMURRAGE ON SHIPS FROM DECEMBER 31, 1973 UNTIL NOW
Mr. Stevens: 1.	From December 31, 1973 to the date this question is answered, what was the total amount paid by the Canadian Wheat Board for demurrage on ships recorded on pages 140 and 141 of the 1973 International Shipping and Shipbuilding Directory as being owned by WorldWide (Shipping) Ltd. of Hong Kong, a Company in which Mr. Y. K. Pao is a Director and a substantial shareholder?
2.	Are there any outstanding claims for demurrage on such ships and, if so, what is the aggregate amount of such claims?
Order Paper Questions


Otto Emil Lang: 1. For the
period December 31, 1973 to December 5, 1974 demurrage paid on ships recorded on pages 140 and 141 of the 1973 International Shipping and Shipbuilding Directory being owned by World-Wide (Shipping) Ltd. of Hong Kong amount to $502,042.49. During the period 39 vessels were loaded, demurrage claims were received on 10 of these vessels.
2.	All demurrage claims received by the board have been finalized.


CBC-AUDIO-VISUAL LIBRARY
Mr. Gauthier (Ottawa-Vanier): Will CBC soon announce a new policy which would put at the disposal of the provincial educational television organizations the large audio-visual library, which now lies dormant in the vaults and which contains material restricted due to copyright and distribution rights and, if so (a) on what date will the project be effected (b) who will pay for the copyright and distribution rights (c) how will the distribution of the material necessary for the programming be carried out?


James Hugh Faulkner: The CBC is formulating a policy which could lead to specified further use of certain CBC programs. The extent of this policy is in the process of being worked out along with details concerning copyright and distribution.


ALLEGED TORTURE OF CANADIAN MISSIONARIES IN CHAD
Mr. Macquarrie: 1.	Has the government been made aware of charges of torture and harassment of Canadian missionaries in Chad and, if so (a) from what groups have representations been received (b) have any conversations been held with the Government of Chad and with what result?
2.	(a) How many Canadian missionaries are known to be in Chad (b) how many have withdrawn in the past year (c) how many Canadian nationals other than missionaries are in Chad?
3.	Are any special steps being taken regarding the safety and freedom of movement of Canadian missionaries?


Hon. Allan J. MacEachen (Secretary of State for External Affairs):: 1. No.
2.	(a) Our records show that 61 Canadian missionaries in Chad have registered with our embassy in Yaounde, Cameroun, which is accredited to Chad, (b) We have no information about the number of Canadian missionaries who may have withdrawn during the past year, (c) Our records also show that there are 20 other Canadians in Chad registered with our embassy in Yaounde. This group consists of CIDA and CUSO employees, businessmen, students and others.
3.	No, since, according to the Canadian embassy in Yaounde, Canadian missionaries are not threatened and can perform freely their usual duties.


COMPENSATION FOR DAMAGES TO DAVIES APIARIES, SEELEY'S BAY, ONTARIO
Mr. Cossitt: 1.	What is the reason that the government has not yet paid a compensation claim for damages caused by the spray program conducted by the Department of Agriculture to Davies Apiaries of Seeley's Bay, Ontario?

January 22, 1975
Order Paper Questions
2.	Did Mr. G. Stuart Brown, Supervisor, Survey Section, Plant Protection Division of the Department of Agriculture assure Mr. J. Barry Davies that such a claim for compensation would be paid and in particular did he advise Mr. Davies in a letter dated June 25, 1974: "In the meantime you should maintain an assessment on losses so that we may come to a settlement which is fair to you ..."?
3.	Will the government now take immediate steps to compensate Davies Apiaries for the damage claimed and substantiated in the amount of $5,997.50 and, if not, what is the reason for any further delay?
4.	Has the Department of Justice intervened to hold up settlement and, if so, what right has it to interfere or change a firm commitment given for compensation by the Department of Agriculture?


Eugene Whelan: 1. The
claim is under investigation by the Department of Justice, whose responsibility, by act of parliament, it is to investigate all claims against the Crown.
2.	The extent of the loss depends on the recovery rate of the bees and the import of Mr. Brown's letter was to have the claimant continue to assess the recovery rate of the bees during the summer so that an accurate loss assessment could be made.
3.	The government will take steps to compensate Davies Apiaries for the damage claimed if and when the investigation establishes that the Crown is liable.
4.	See 1. above.


CNR-HAIL SERVICE BROCKVILLE-KINGSTON, ONTARIO
Mr. Cossitt: 1.	Is Canadian National Railways giving consideration, or will it give consideration, to extending the point of origin and termination of the train known as the Ontarian to Brockville, Ontario from Kingston, Ontario?
2.	With reference to the fact that this train at one time did service as far east as Brockville, has CNR, since it discontinued the Brockville-Kingston portion of the route, made any survey or conducted any investigation to determine whether such service to and from Brockville is again warranted and, if not, will it make such investigations as soon as possible?


Joseph Clifford McIsaac: 1 and 2. The Brockville-Kingston portion of these trains was discontinued several years ago since only 6 or 7 passengers per trip were boarding at Brockville and Gananoque. Passengers from these points were accommodated on other trains apparently without serious inconvenience. In addition, daily bus service by Voyageur Colonial Ltd. is also available. At the present time we are re-examining the pattern of train service provided in this area.


CHEMICAL PESTICIDES TO BE USED IN THE CONTROL OF GRASSHOPPERS
Mr. Neil: 1.	Is the Department of Agriculture presently testing any new chemical pesticides to be used in the control of grasshoppers and, if so (a) how many are under test (b) on what date is it expected that the tests will be completed?
2.	Is the Department presently carrying on or sponsoring any research projects to develop new chemical pesticides for the control of grasshoppers?


Eugene Whelan: 1. Yes. (a) In 1974, 35 insecticides, 20 of which were tested for the

first time in a laboratory and 3 of which were tested for the first time in field experiments, (b) The results of these studies and other scientific information will be used for the preparation of recommendations of various pest control practices to farmers in 1975.
2. No.


NCC-CONSULTING ENGINEERING SERVICES
Mr. Alexander: 1.	During the past ten years (a) what were the expenditures by the National Capital Commission for outside consulting engineering services on the matter of waste disposal for the NCC area (b) by year, what fees were paid to what firms?
2.	What is the current yearly rate of expenditure and to what firms?
3.	What is the reason for such expenditures?
4.	For what reason are government engineers from various departments who are expert in this field not being exclusively utilized for this work?


Barnett Jerome Danson: 1. (a) $293,834 with recovery through cost-sharing agreements of $146,312, as follows: Environment Canada, $73,090; Regional Municipality of Ottawa-Carle-ton, 53,346; Communaute regionale de l'Outaouais, $19,876; (b) Paid to James F. MacLaren Limited in consortium with J.L. Richards and Associates Limited, Labrecque, Vezina et Associes and D. William Carr and Associates Limited: Fiscal year-1972/73, $98,078; 1973/74, $120,272; 1974/75, $75,484.
2.	Expenditure of $200,000 expected during fiscal year 1974/75 to James F. MacLaren Limited.
3.	For engineering services: (a) To assist in the preparation of a request for proposals to establish a refuse energyconverting facility in the National Capital Region and the assessment and evaluation of the proposals which were received; and (b) to assist in the preliminary design studies and development of an appropriate energy-converting facility.
4.	N.C.C. staff resources are limited by number and by expertise and for this reason consulting engineering services are utilized. Liaison is maintained with other government departments interested or involved in this activity area. No other department could offer this service utilizing their staff resources.


OLD AGE SECURITY-INCOME-TESTED ALLOWANCES TO SPOUSES AGE 60 TO 65
Mr. Herbert: In reference to the answer to Question No. 356, will the spouse aged 60 to 65 continue to receive an allowance of OAS/GIS after the death of the recipient?


Hon. Marc Lalonde (Minister of National Health and Welfare):: When all details of the proposal to pay an income-tested allowance to spouses aged 60 to 65 of Old Age Security pensioners have been worked out, legislation will be introduced before the House of Commons.
January 22, 1975


MORTGAGE INSURANCE FEES
Mr. Herbert: In reference to the answer to Question No. 210 which stated that in 1972 recoveries from the sale of properties acquired and the approximate market value of properties remaining totalled $25.4 million and that claims paid totalled $26.7 million, will the Minister of State for Urban Affairs now consider reducing mortgage insurance fees which, in 1972, produced revenue of $20.1 million?


Barnett Jerome Danson: I am advised by Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation that the level of mortgage insurance fees is subject to continuing review.


STATISTICS ON SUBJECTS GRANTED CERTIFICATES OF CANADIAN CITIZENSHIP
Mr. Herbert: 1.	Does Statistics Canada publish statistics on the principal characteristics of subjects granted certificates of Canadian citizenship, including province of residence, rural and urban, sex, age, marital status, country of birth, country of former allegiance, citizenship of spouse, period of immigration to Canada and occupation group?
2.	Does Statistics Canada also publish statistics indicating how many of these new citizens speak either or both of the official languages and, if not, for what reason?


Gaston Clermont: 1. Statistics Canada publishes an annual bulletin entitled "Canadian Citizenship Statistics" (Catalogue 91-205) which contains data on principal characteristics (as specified in the question) of persons granted certificates of Canadian citizenship during the preceding one-year period. The most recent issue of this bulletin contains data for 1973.
2. Annual data on the number of these new citizens who speak either or both of the official languages are not published by Statistics Canada because it does not collect such statistics.


STUDY OF METHODS TO ALLEVIATE FLOODING IN MONTREAL
Mr. Herbert: 1.	Did the Minister of the Environment announce in October of this year the beginning of an intensive two-year study of methods to alleviate flooding in the Montreal area?
2.	For what reason (a) was a two-year study considered necessary (b) was the announcement delayed until October?
3.	Was there extensive flooding in the Montreal area (a) in the spring of this year (b) in previous years?
4.	Are monies available from a federal program to assist in the prevention of similar future occurrences?
5.	What action did the government take to prompt the provincial government to utilize federal funds available under existing programs for the prevention of future flooding?
6.	Was the cost of repair of flood damage in Quebec last spring estimated at approximately $75 million?
7.	Will the Department permit the stacking of federal funds for preventive work should there be extensive flood damage during the two-year period of the study?


Len Marchand: I. Yes.
Order Paper Questions
2.	(a) Because of the complexity of the study, a minimum of two years is required, (b) Discussions began in May, 1974, and the press release was timed to allow organization and preparation of terms of reference for the study.
3.	(a) Yes. (b) Yes.
4.	Funds are available in the estimates of Environment Canada for the conduct of the study, but not for the construction of any flood control works. However, the study may determine ways of alleviating the problem without an expensive construction program.
5.	The initiative for the study originated with the Province.
6.	Last spring an estimate of damage that received publicity was $75 million-the total actual shareable damage in the province of Quebec was about $25 million.
7.	There is at present no commitment for preventative work.


ICEBREAKERS
Mr. Forrestall: By 1979, how many icebreakers operated by the government, with a capacity for continuous progress through seven-foot to ten-foot first year ice, will be available and deployed in the Canadian Arctic Archipelago?


Joseph Clifford McIsaac: None.


REQUIREMENT FOR POLAR CAPACITY ICEBREAKERS
Mr. Forrestall: Does the government foresee the possible requirement of polar capacity icebreakers with potential for continuous progress through 7 to 10 foot ice for use in the Canadian Arctic Archipelago by 1979 and, if so, does the government consider that this service would best be provided by (a) vessels of the Government of the United States (b) vessels of the government (c) a mixture of the two?


Joseph Clifford McIsaac: At this time, the government does not foresee a firm requirement for polar capacity icebreakers before the early 1980's. A contract has been awarded to a firm of naval architects to carry out a design study for a polar icebreaker should a firm requirement develop, (a) No; (b) yes; (c) there is no plan on the part of the government to enter into a joint agreement regarding the use of polar icebreaker in Arctic waters.


PROSECUTIONS UNDER COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT
Mr. Reynolds: 1.	How many prosecutions have been started under the Department of Consumer and Corporate Affairs for companies violating the Combines Investigation Act since the Department's inception in 1967?
2.	How many of these prosecutions were successful?
3.	How much were the total fines imposed?
4.	How many people or companies charged went to jail?


Hon. Andre Ouellet (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs):: 2490

January 22, 1975
Order Paper Questions
Prosecutions
started
Convictions
Total
fine
imposed
Misleading Advertising	432	353 $ 258,366 (of whichBefore the Courts	72	SI,900 under(Sections 3G and 37 of the	Under Appel (of	5	appeal byCombines Investigation Act)	which 3 were convictions)	
509	accused)Sections 32, 33, 35, 38	27	28 $1,180,150 (of whichand 30(3)	Before the Courts (of which one conviction sentence to be handed down).	10	$410,000 under appeal by i Crown, $150,000 under appealUnder Appeal (of which 4 were convictions)	6 	
43	by accused)381	$1,438,5164.	Two individuals sentenced to one day each in jail and to a fine of $300 each.


PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE ACT-ASSISTANCE TO HAY AND GRAIN FARMERS, CRESTON VALLEY, B.C.
Mr. Brisco: Are the hay and grain farmers of the Creston Valley (Creston, Canyon, Lister and Erickson, British Columbia) included in the Prairie Farm Assistance Act and, if so (a) did any of these farmers apply for assistance under this Act in 1972-73 and 1973-74 (b) did they receive such assistance and, if so, what was the total sum of this assistance for each year?


Eugene Whelan: Benefits under the Prairie Farm Assistance Act were limited to the spring wheat area of the prairie provinces. This area does not include the Creston Valley area of British Columbia, (a) not applicable; (b) Not applicable.


LOW INTEREST LOANS FOR HOUSING PURPOSES
Mr. Jones: Has the government considered the establishment of a banking authority to provide low interest rate loans (a) to municipalities (b) for home building, home acquisition and mobile home acquisition?


Barnett Jerome Danson: The government is not considering the establishment of a banking authority to provide low interest rate loans to municipalities, or for home building, home acquisition and mobile home acquisition, since long-term financing at preferred interest rates for housing and related purposes is available under the provisions of the National Housing Act through Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation.


NEWS RELEASE, NOVEMBER 5, 1974, BY PRESIDENT OF THE TREASURY BOARD
Mr. Jones: 1.	Did the President of the Treasury Board state in a news release dated November 5, 1974 "... that all of the provinces should encourage the teaching of both official languages in all our schools right from the first year" and, if so, does the minister and the government now agree that steps be initiated by a national uniform integrated school system from sea to sea rather than a separate school system based on language?
2.	With respect to the same news release did the minister indicate that he was in full agreement that bilingualism is an essential qualification for certain positions in the Public Service and, if so, for what reason is the minister promoting the changing of some bilingual jobs in the Public Service in the Ottawa-Hull area to French-only jobs?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: 1.
Yes, this statement was made. Matters related to education are a Provincial responsibility and questions related to integration of school systems fall within their area of jurisdiction.
2. Bilingualism is an essential qualification for some positions. No statement was made with respect to changing bilingual jobs to French essential. What was said was that some jobs previously identified as requiring knowledge of English essential are now opened to persons who have either a knowledge only of English or only of French.


PRIVY COUNCIL-FUNCTIONS OF PARLIAMENTARY AND CO-ORDINATION DIVISION
Mr. Muir: 1.	What is the function of the Parliamentary Enquiries and Co-ordination Division of the Office of the President of the Privy Council?
2.	Is the government satisfied with the operations of that Division?
3.	What steps (a) have been taken during the last year (b) are planned in the immediate future to improve the operations of the Division?
January 22, 1975


John Mercer Reid: 1. See reply to question No. 350 tabled March 31, 1971.
2.	While generally satisfied with the performance of the division, the government is aware of continuing increases in the demands placed upon it and, therefore, is always working towards improving its operations.
3.	Following analytical review of the operations of the division in the recent past it has acquired accessibility to most departmental automated facsimile systems and consideration is now being given to computerizing certain manual systems to facilitate the retrieval or storage of information.


LONGITUDINAL SURVEY-UNEMPLOYMENT RATE OF THE NOMINATED IMMIGRANTS
Mr. Stollery: According to the longitudinal study on unemployment among nominated relatives done by the Department of Manpower and Immigration, what is the rate of unemployment among nominated relatives (a) 6 months (b) 12 months (c) 18 months (d) 24 months after their arrival in Canada?


Robert Knight Andras: The Longitudinal Survey on the economic and social adaptation of immigrants gives the following unemployment rates for nominated immigrants in the 1969, 1970 and 1971 cohorts who remained in Canada for three years.
1969 Cohort 1970 Cohort 1971 Cohort
Males	Males	MalesMonths After	Males	and	Males	and	Males	andArrival	Only	Females	Only	Females	Only	Females6	16.6	15.2	20.6	20.5	10.5"	11.7"12	9.5	9.9	11.6	11.8	8.9"	8.8"24	6.9	7.3	9.4	9.3	7.0"	6.7"36	5.1	5.4	6.4	N/A	N/A	N/AAverage of	above	observations:	9.5	9.4	12.0	13.9	8.8	9.3
There is no avail able rate at the 18-month interval, e-preliminary.


DREE-FINANCIAL PARTICIPATION IN MAINTENANCE OF CANADIAN ARMED FORCES BASE
Mr. Forrestall: Does the Department of Regional Economic Expansion participate financially in the maintenance of any Canadian Armed Forces base and, if so, which ones and to what dollar levels?


Joseph-Phillippe Guay: The
answer for the Department of Regional Economic Expansion is as follows: No.
Order Paper Questions


Mr. Herbert: 1.	In reference to the answer to Question No. 316 (a) how much sugar was shipped in 1973 to Canada from Barbados (b) how does this tonnage compare to the shipment of sugar from Barbados to (i) Great Britain (ii) the United States?
2.	Is the 8,000 tons of sugar shipped from Jamaica to Canada in 1974 a quota for the year and, to the knowledge of the government, how does the export of sugar from Jamaica to Canada compare to Jamaica's exports to (a) Great Britain (b) the United States?
3.	To what extent is it believe that Arab-funded London speculators may be affecting the price of sugar?
4.	To what extent is the Tate and Lyle Organization involved in the setting of quotas?
5.	Is Great Britain refusing entry to the South African sugar that is presently being exported to Canada?
6.	What was the estimated percentage of Canadian sugar imports being received by Canada and Dominion Sugar at the time of purchase of this company by the Tate and Lyle interests?


Gaston Clermont: 1.	1973-Exports from Barbados to	Metric Tons
Canada	4,277
U.K.	102,854
U.S.A.	1,545
2.	No quotas exist in Canada for sugar imports nor do they exist for exports from Jamaica to Canada.
1974-Exports from Jamaica to
(9 mos.)	Canada	10,766(7 mos.)	U.K.	158,463(7 mos.)	U.S.A.	70,708(7 mos.)	Others	6,8013.	Arab countries have purchased sugar throughout 1974 at high prices but no means are available to assess the extent of speculation by these countries.4.	The only quotas currently in effect are under the Commonwealth Sugar Agreement which expires the end of 1974. These import quotas were negotiated between the United Kingdom Government and the Commonwealth Sugar Producers.5.	No.6.	Approximately 38 per cent of Raw Sugar Imports.


COST OF BILINGUALISM PROGRAM
Mr. Cossitt: With reference to press reports on Monday, November 25,1974 on the subject of many millions of dollars being spent by the government in implementing bilingualism in Canada, will the government make public exactly what this programme has cost to date plus an estimate of further costs and (a) if so, on what date (b) if not, for what reason?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: The cost related to implementation of the official languages program in Canada, by fiscal year, since the adoption of the Official Languages Act is:
28626 -23'/z

Order Paper Questions
Fiscal Year
1969-	70
1970-	71
1971-	72
1972-	73
1973-	74
1974-	75
Amount provided in 1974-1
Expenditures ($000)
11,446 16,172 22,599 52,385 66,780 105,219*
estimates.


REFERENCE OF BILINGUALISM PROGRAM TO PARLIAMENTARY COMMITTEE
Mr. Cossitt: Is it the intention of the government to refer the bilingual program to a parliamentary committee for full examination of both the methods and costs of implementation and (a) if so, on what date (b) if not, for what reason?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: (a)
No; (b) Discussion of these items can take place on any of a number of occasions during debates in the House of Commons, also at the time of meetings of the Miscellaneous Estimates Committees.


JASPER NATIONAL PARK-FISH STOCKED IN LAKES
Mr. Clark (Rocky Mountain): 1.	How many fish were stocked in (a) Marjory (b) Annette (c) Edith (d) Patricia (e) Pyramid (f) Maligne Lakes in Jasper National Park in each year 1960, 1965,1967, 1969, 1971 and 1973?
2.	What is the policy of the governement regarding stocking of fish in these lakes?
3.	Is it the policy of the government that, after the wearing out of boats now used on those lakes for pleasure fishing or other purposes, no new boats will be allowed and, if so, for what reason?
4.	Is it the intention of the government to continue to allow non-commercial fishing on these lakes?


Mrs. Iona Campagnolo (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development):: 1.
(a)	(b)	(c)	(d)	(e)	(01960	19,600	33,072	31,221	-	-1965	17,996	20,232	78,287	35,000	28,914	1,000,0001957	7,000	17,450	10,335	204,439	67,100	5,0001969	1,000	4,620	15,150	21,000	7,000	-1971	5,000	16,000	49,500	275,427	59,611	97,9501973	2,000	2,500	10,000	18,000	-	-


CIDA-LOANS TO CUBA
Mr. Kempling: 1.	From 1968 to June 31, 1974, how many loans were made to Cuba by CIDA?
2.	What were the amounts of the loans for each year?
3.	What were the repayment terms and the rate of interest charged for each loan?
4.	Are any loans in default at the present time and, if so, which ones?
5.	Have any loans been written off as uncollectable and, if so, which ones and for what amounts?
2.	Sport angling for visitor recreation will be maintained via stocking only in those lakes which will allow the fish to thrive under natural conditions.
3.	No. Boats and boating will continue to be allowed but as in the past, will be subject to Section 7, Subsection 1 of the National Parks General Regulations.
4.	Sport fishing will be allowed to continue where it can be maintained without detriment to the environmental values of the areas concerned.


Allan Joseph MacEachen: 1. No loans have been made to Cuba by CIDA from 1968 to date.
2.	Not applicable.
3.	Not applicable.
4.	Not applicable.
5.	Not applicable.


OLD AGE SECURITY ACT-RETROACTIVE PAYMENTS
Mr. Herbert: Is consideration being given to amending the Old Age Security Act to grant the Minister of National Health and Welfare the discretionary power to make retroactive payments under the Act to the date at which a person has attained the age of 65 years regardless of the date on which an application is received when it is shown that an applicant has failed to apply at the proper time due to sickness, justifiable ignorance, absence or for other serious and similar reasons?


Marc Lalonde: The Old Age Security Act provides for retroactive payment for up to one year where the applicant was otherwise eligible to receive a pension. There is no consideration being given to amending this provision at the present time.


TOTAL GOVERNMENT DEBT
Mr. Robinson: 1.	What is the total government public debt at the present time and what is the government program to liquidate the debt?
2.	What is the cost on a yearly basis of carrying the public debt?


John Napier Turner: 1. Total gross public debt on a Public Accounts basis, as at March 31, 1974 was $55,557.0 million. The government does not have a fixed program to liquidate the public debt. The public debt is reduced during times of budgetary surpluses subject to the constraints of current economic and financial market conditions.
2. Yearly carrying charges on public debt is currently averaging 6.47 per cent or $3,594.5 million.


YVES GEOFFROY
Mr. Woolliams: 1.	In what institution is Yves Geoffroy now serving time for the crimes of murder and escape?
2.	Following his recapture in Spain, has Yves Geoffroy been granted either a day pass or parole, since his escape, while serving a life sentence for the murder of his wife?
January 22, 1975


William Warren Allmand: 1. Federal Training Centre (Laval, Quebec).
2. No.


CONVICTION OF CHARLES HEAD
Mr. Woolliams: 1.	Was Charles Head convicted of the murder of Tanya Busch and was the appeal dismissed?
2.	In what institution is he incarcerated and has he been granted any further day passes or parole?


William Warren Allmand: 1. Yes. Appeal dismissed February 27, 1974.
2. Saskatchewan Penitentiary. No further temporary leave of absence or parole granted.


PENSION ACT-APPLICATIONS FOR ENTITLEMENT
Mr. Herbert: 1.	What progress is being made in reducing the backlog for the review of applications for entitlement under the Pension Act?
2.	What has been the increase in the size of the Medical Advisory Branch of the Canadian Pension Commission since the date of the passing of the amendments to the Act which resulted in the flood of applications received?
3.	Is the Medical Advisory Branch at maximum intended strength?


Daniel Joseph MacDonald: 1. Substantial progress is being made in reducing the number of claims for pension which are awaiting decision under the Pension Act. As of November 24, 1974 the number of such claims which had not yet been decided was 5,807 although there were 7,617 new claims received in the previous 12 months and there had been 8,085 outstanding as of November 24, 1973.
2.	The Medical Advisory Branch of the Canadian Pension Commission increased from 60 on March 30, 1971 to 82 as at November 24, 1974.
3.	No.


STRIKE STATISTICS
Mr. Herbert: Has an estimate been compiled of the ratio of primary strikers, not counted as unemployed, compared to the unemployed that are lay-offs from companies that are affected by strikes?


Hon. John C. Munro (Minister of Labour):: No. Information is available only for employees on strike and respecting picket lines in the establishment where the strike takes place. Beginning in 1975, information will be available on all other persons idled in the establishment where the strike takes place.


UIC-PERCENTAGE OF PRIMARY OR SECONDARY WAGE EARNERS
Mr. Herbert: 1.	Amongst the unemployed, what is the percentage of primary earners or breadwinners?
Order Paper Questions
2. Has any consideration been given to a varied scale of unemployment insurance benefits that would recognize the special needs of this class of unemployed?


Robert Knight Andras: 1. The Unemployment Insurance Commission does not maintain statistics on UIC claimants respecting primary or secondary wage earners.
2. Unemployment Insurance benefits are increased during extended benefit payment periods for those claimants who have dependents. This, however, does not infer that the claimant receiving dependency rate is, or has been, the primary source of family income support. Unemployment Insurance Benefits are subject to income tax. This automatically provides some adjustments according to a claimant's status as a primary or secondary earner.


PATENTS
Mr. Caouette (Temiscamingue): 1.	Since 1940, has the Patent Office received any applications for registration relating to the reduction of consumption of motor vehicle gas and oil for heating systems and, if so, how many?
2.	How many applications were (a) patented (b) rejected (i) for what reason (ii) on what dates (c) in each case, what savings were forecast?


André Ouellet: 1. Approximately 4,900.
2. It is estimated that it would cost approximately $10,000.00 and many man days to answer this question.


AIR CANADA FLIGHT 2620-ACCIDENT REPORT
Mr. Herbert: 1.	What were the reasons a report was not made public on the investigation into the accident involving Air Canada Flight 2620 from Montreal to Halifax on the evening of Saturday, April 6, 1974?
2.	Was this accident included in the considerations of the independent study group considering possible conflict of interest in accident investigation?


Joseph Clifford McIsaac: 1. The incident was investigated as such, and not as an accident because it did not conform to the definition of Annex 13 of the International Civil Aviation Organization which Canada has accepted. The cause of the incident was reviewed with Air Canada for accident prevention purposes and the data have been included in the flight safety program.
2. The referenced study group had completed its information gathering before this occurrence took place.


RELOCATION OF PARKS CANADA HEADQUARTERS FROM CORNWALL, ONTARIO
Mr. Cossitt: 1.	(a) Is the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development considering moving the Regional Headquarters of Parks Canada from Cornwall, Ontario to another more central location (b) was a study done in this regard and, if so, what were the results?
2.	Was it tentatively decided that this Regional Headquarters would be moved to, and established in, Smiths Falls, Ontario and, if so, on what date will this be done and the necessary public announcement made?

January 22, 1975
Order Paper Questions
3.	Have representations been received from the Secretary of State or any person or persons acting on his behalf or on behalf of his constituency political association requesting that the decision to move to Smiths Falls be cancelled and that the headquarters be moved instead to the City of Peterborough in the Minister's constituency and, if so, will the government go along with the intention to move to Smiths Falls or will political representations by the Minister or persons acting on his behalf prevail?


Iona Campagnolo: 1. (a) Yes. (b) Yes. Internal studies and assessments have been made and have indicated the need to relocate.
2.	No.
3.	No.


FERRY SERVICE-CAPE BRETON AND NEWFOUNDLAND
Mr. MacLean: 1.	Has a ferry been leased recently for the service between Cape Breton and Newfoundland and, if so, from whom has it been leased?
2.	(a) What is the annual cost of this lease (b) how long will it be in force (c) what is the ferry's capacity for (i) passengers (ii) automobiles?


Joseph Clifford McIsaac: 1. The passenger/truck ferry, M.V. Marine Nautica has recently been chartered by Canadian National Railway Company Ltd. from Stena Line AB of Gothenburg, Sweden.
2. The annual cost of the charter is $2,755,750.00 for a period of five years. The ferry has a nominal capacity for 1,180 passengers and 265 automobiles.


LANGEVIN BUILDING
Mr. MacLean: Is the Langevin Building being extensively modernized and remodelled and, if so (a) on what date will this work be completed (b) what is the estimated total cost (c) what is the planned use of this building when the above-mentioned work is completed?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: Yes, extensive modernization and remodelling is being carried out. (a),The work will be completed by October 1975. (b) The estimated total cost is $3,742,000. (c) It is planned that the accommodation will be occupied by the Privy Council and Prime Minister's staff after the work is completed.


FERRY SERVICE-BORDEN-CAPE TORMENTINE
Mr. MacLean: 1.	What is the remaining planned service life of the motor vessel Abegweit, operating on the Borden-Cape Tormentine Ferry Service?
2.	What plans are underway for an additional ferry for the Borden-Cape Tormentine Ferry Service to replace the Abegweit?
3.	What will be the size and carrying capacity of this new ship for (a) passengers (b) automobiles?
4.	On what date will this new ship be completed and brought into service?


Joseph Clifford McIsaac: 1. The remaining planned service life of the M.V. Abegweit is from five to nine years,

depending on the annual expenditures required to keep her in service.
2.	The P.E.I. transportation study due to be completed in July 1975 will indicate the character of the traffic which the new vessel should be built to accommodate.
3.	The size and capacity for passengers and freight will be decided when the P.E.I. study mentioned above has been completed.
4.	Present planning is for this vessel to be brought into service about 1980 but will depend in part on the results of the P.E.I. study.


FARM IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACT-APPLICATIONS FOR LOANS IN CONSTITUENCY OF SWIFT CURRENT-MAPLE CREEK
Mr. Hamilton (Swift Current-Maple Creek): How many applications were (a) received (b) approved (c) rejected by the chartered banks in the constituency of Swift Current-Maple Creek under the Farm Improvement Loans Act for each year 1970 to 1973?


John Napier Turner: The
requested data are not maintained by electoral district.


FARM IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACT-TOTAL LOANS IN CONSTITUENCY OF SWIFT CURRENT-MAPLE CREEK
Mr. Hamilton (Swift Current-Maple Creek): What were the total amounts of money lent by chartered banks in the constituency of Swift Current-Maple Creek under the Farm Improvement Loans Act for each year 1970 to 1973?


John Napier Turner: The
requested data are not maintained by electoral district.


FARM IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACT-AVERAGE SIZE OF LOANS IN CONSTITUENCY OF SWIFT CURRENT-MAPLE CREEK
Mr. Hamilton (Swift Current-Maple Creek): What was the average size of the loans to applicants by the chartered banks in the constituency of Swift Current-Maple Creek under the Farm Improvement Loans Act for each year 1970 to 1973?


John Napier Turner: The
requested data are not maintained by electoral district.


SMALL BUSINESSES LOANS ACT-NUMBER OF APPLICATIONS RECEIVED IN CONSTITUENCY OF SWIFT CURRENT-MAPLE CREEK
Mr. Hamilton (Swift Current-Maple Creek): How many applications were (a) received (b) approved (c) rejected by the chartered banks in the constituency of Swift Current-Maple Creek under the Small Businesses Loans Act for each year 1970 to 1973?


John Napier Turner: The
requested data are not maintained by electoral district.
January 22, 1975


SMALL BUSINESSES LOANS ACT-TOTAL LOANS IN CONSTITUENCY OF SWIFT CURRENT-MAPLE CREEK
Mr. Hamilton (Swift Current-Maple Creek): What were the total amounts of money lent by chartered banks in the constituency of Swift Current-Maple Creek under the Small Businesses Loans Act for each year 1970 to 1973?


John Napier Turner: The
requested data are not maintained by electoral district.


SMALL BUSINESSES LOANS ACT-AVERAGE SIZE OF LOANS IN CONSTITUENCY OF SWIFT CURRENT-MAPLE CREEK
Mr. Hamilton (Swift Current-Maple Creek): What was the average size of the loans by applicants by the chartered banks in the constituency of Swift Current-Maple Creek under the Small Businesses Loans Act for each year 1970 to 1973?


John Napier Turner: The
requested data are not maintained by electoral district.


FARM CREDIT CORPORATION-APPLICATIONS IN CONSTITUENCY OF SWIFT CURRENT-MAPLE CREEK
[Stage Direction]
Question 1,090-Mr. Hamilton (Swift Current-Maple Creek):
How many applications were (a) received (b) approved (c) rejected by the Farm Credit Corporation in the constituency of Swift Current-Maple Creek for each year 1970 to 1973?
Eugene Whelan: The Farm Credit Corporation advises that statistics are not maintained on a constituency basis. However, for rural municipalities located wholly within the constituency of Swift Current-Maple Creek (this excludes the western row of townships of rural municipality 226), the answer is as follows:
Fiscal Year	(a)	(b)	(c)1970-71	101	99	21971-72	111	99	121972-73	193	181	121973-74	275	273	2


FARM CREDIT CORPORATION-TOTAL LOANS IN THE CONSTITUENCY OF SWIFT CURRENT-MAPLE CREEK
Mr. Hamilton (Swift Current-Maple Creek): What was the total amounts of money lent by the Farm Credit Corporation in the constituency of Swift Current-Maple Creek for each year 1970 to 1973?


Eugene Whelan: The Farm Credit Corporation advises that statistics are not maintained on a constituency basis. However, for rural municipalities located wholly within the constituency of Swift Current-Maple Creek (this excludes the western row of
Order Paper Questions
townships of rural municipality 226), the answer is as follows: 1970-71-$2,948,800; 1971-72-$3,252,600; 1972-73- $6,280,600; 1973-74-$12,649,200.


FARM CREDIT CORPORATION-AVERAGE SIZE OF LOANS IN CONSTITUENCY OF SWIFT CURRENT-MAPLE CREEK
Mr. Hamilton (Swift Current-Maple Creek): What was the average size of the loans to applicants by the Farm Credit Corporation in the constituency of Swift Current-Maple Creek for each year 1970 to 1973?


Eugene Whelan: The Farm Credit Corporation advises that statistics are not maintained on a constituency basis. However, for rural municipalities located wholly within the constituency of Swift Current-Maple Creek (this excludes the western row of townships of rural municipality 226), the answer is as follows:	1970-71-$29,786;	1971-72-$32,855;	1972-73-
$34,699; 1973-74-$46,334.


BILINGUAL DISTRICTS
Mr. Jones: 1.	What areas have been officially declared bilingual districts?
2.	What are the criteria for designation as bilingual districts?
3.	What effect does such designation have on public servants and citizens in such an area?
4.	Has the (a) province of New Brunswick (b) province of Quebec or any portion thereof been declared or designated as a bilingual district?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: 1.
Under the Official Languages Act, the National Capital Region has officially been declared a bilingual district.
2.	Under the Official Languages Act, a district may be designated bilingual if (a) both of the official languages are spoken as a mother tongue by persons residing in the area; (b) the number of persons who are in the linguistic minority in the area in respect of an official language spoken as a mother tongue is at least ten per cent of the total number of persons residing in the area; and (c) where the number of persons in the linguistic minority in an area is less than the percentage required (the number of persons who are in the linguistic minority in the area in respect of an official language spoken as a mother tongue is at least ten per cent of the total number of persons residing in the area), the area may be established as a bilingual district if before the 7th day of December 1969 the services of departments and agencies of the Government of Canada were customarily made available to residents of the area in both official languages.
3.	(a) In a federal bilingual district, the ministries, departments and agencies of the Government of Canada must ensure that a number of their employees are capable of providing services to the public in both official languages; (b) Citizens in a bilingual district are assured of being able to communicate and obtain the services of the Public Service in the official language of their choice.

January 22, 1975
Order Paper Questions
4.	(a) No; (b) No.


GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE TO DISTRICT PRISONS IN PROVINCE OF QUEBEC
Mr. Lambert (Bellechasse): Does the government contribute financially to the construction and maintenance of district prisons in the Province of Quebec and, if so (a) under what agreement (b) what amounts were paid for such purpose during the past five years?


William Warren Allmand: No. (a) and
(b) not applicable.


VETERINARIANS EMPLOYED BY THE HEALTH OF ANIMALS BRANCH, DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
Mr. Mitges: 1.	How many veterinarians are employed by the Health of Animals Branch, Department of Agriculture and, of these, how many are engaged (a) in the meat inspection section (b) in the eradication and control of infectious and contagious diseases?
2.	How many meat inspectors, other than veterinarians, are in the employment of the Branch?


Eugene Whelan: 1. Five hundred sixty-two; (a) 278; (b) 272.
2. Nine hundred eighty-five.


DEVELOPMENT OF VANADIUM INDUSTRY IN CANADA
Mr. Saltsman: What action is the Department of Energy, Mines and Resources taking, in view of recent correspondence directed to its officials and the Minister, regarding the opportunity to develop a much needed vanadium industry in Canada controlled by Canadians based on the by-product potential of the Athabasca Tar Sands?


Maurice Brydon Foster: The initiative for the development of a vanadium industry in Canada based on the by-product potential of the Athabasca tar sands must come from the private sector. However, the Department of Energy, Mines and Resources has developed a process for the recovery of vanadium from fly ash, a substance similar to that formed in processing the Athabasca tar sands. A similar process was used on a commercial basis by a Canadian oil company.


T V. SAFETY STANDARDS
Mr. Mitges: 1.	Are there any mandatory safety standards for the manufacture of television sets and, if so, what are they?
2.	What are the safety measures applicable to television sets imported into Canada?


André Ouellet: 1. The Canadian Electrical Code which has been adopted by all the provinces establishes safety standards for television sets.
2. These television standards are developed by, and obtainable from the Canadian Standards Association. They are approved by the electrical authorities of each

province, and apply to both imports and domestically-produced sets.


FIRES CAUSED BY DEFECTIVE TELEVISION SETS
Mr. Mitges: How many fires in houses and apartments for each year 1971 to 1974 to date were the results of defective television sets igniting?


André Ouellet: Based on information provided by provincial fire authorities and compiled by the Canadian Standards Association, there have been a total of 58 TV fires which caused smoke or fire damage external to the sets during the period of concern as follows:
Period	Fires
May 1971 to May 1972	16
May 1972 to May 1973	22
May 1973 to May 1974	12
May 1974 to Dee 1974	8
	58
Of these 58 fires 14 were attributed to definite causes within the TV sets involved. Eight occurred in the 1971-72 period and six in 1972-73 period. Three of the 14fires caused extensive building damage. It should be noted that the remaining 44 fires could not be attributed to specific factors. Some are known, however, to have been caused by defective extension cords, lamps located on TV sets and other factors not related to set design.


ARCTIC SOVEREIGNTY
Mr. Forrestall: With respect to the answer to Question No. 915, are any representations being considered by the government to the Government of the United States with respect to the intended use by the United States Coast Guard of the 60,000 horsepower MAGB-10 and MAGB-11 to support planned commercial interests in the Canadian Arctic Archipelago and, if not, for what reason?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: The government is not considering making representations to the government of the United States with respect to the use of the United States Coast Guard Ships MAGB-10 and MAGB-11. It is the Canadian government's understanding that these vessels will be used in Antarctic and Alaskan waters and therefore there is no basis upon which the Canadian government could make representations at this time.


ARCTIC SOVEREIGNTY-CANADIAN ARCTIC ARCHIPELAGO
Mr. Forrestall: Has the Government of the United States recognized in writing the absolute, unfettered, untrammelled and unqualified right of the government to regulate every aspect whatsoever of movement, commerce, access, shipping, exploration, exploitation and industry in those islands and the waters surrounding them, commonly referred to as the Canadian Arctic Archipelago, as if such land, water and ice were part of territorial Canada, and (a) if so, is the government prepared to make this document public (b) if not, for what reason?
January 22, 1975


Allan Joseph MacEachen: There has been no written communication from the United States government with respect to the matters raised in the question. At the time of the enactment of the Arctic Waters Pollution Prevention Act in April of 1970 the United States Department of State issued a press release concerning Canada's claim to jurisdiction over Arctic pollution. That press release was published as "Appendix A" to the Hansard of April 15, 1970. The Canadian government replied to the United States position with a diplomatic note which was handed to the United States government on April 16, 1970. A summary of that note appeared as an appendix to the Hansard of April 17, 1970. The Canadian government maintains the views it expressed at that time.


EMPLOYMENT OF MR. JOSEPH R. NUSS OR HIS LAW FIRM BY GOVERNMENT
Mb'. Stevens: Was Mr. Joseph R. Nuss, a Quebec Advocate presently with the law firm of Ahern, DeBrabant, Nuss & Drymer employed or retained by the government in any capacity in each or any of the years 1964 to 1974 inclusive or was any law firm with which he was associated so employed or retained and, if so (a) upon what terms and conditions was Mr. Nuss or his law firm so employed or retained for the same years (b) what remunerations or fees were paid Mr. Nuss or his law firm by the government for the same years?


Mr. Gilles Marceau (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Justice):: As far as the Department of Justice is concerned, the answer is no.


LOANS TO INDIAN TO PURCHASE POTASH AND WHEAT FROM CANADIAN SUPPLIERS
Mr. Gauthier (Roberval): 1.	Has the government granted Indian loans of (a) ten million dollars for the purchase of Canadian potash (b) 25 million dollars for the purchase of Canadian wheat and, if so, at what interest rate?
2.	If the sum of 35 million dollars was loaned, was it obtained directly from the Consolidated Revenue Fund or by means of a new estimate?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: 1. (a) The government of Canada signed on November 27, 1973 a $10 million dollar loan for the purchase of Canadian potash fertilizer. The terms of the loan are as follows: zero percent interest; ten years grace; 50 years maturity, (b) On the 28 May 1974, Canada approved an aid grant of $25,000,000 for the purchase of Canadian wheat.
2. Funds for the potash loan ($10,000,000) will not require a new estimate.


DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE-PUBLICATION No. 1527
Mr. Herbert: Will publication No. 1527 of the Department of Agriculture presently available and distributed in English only be made available ultimately in this country's second official language and, if so, on what date?


Eugene Whelan: Yes, on or before March 15.
Order Paper Questions


NUMBER OF CROWN CORPORATIONS AND GOVERNMENT COMMISSIONS
Mr. Gauthier (Roberval): How many (a) Crown corporations (b) government commissions are there?


John Carr Munro: In so far as
Information Canada is concerned, the answers are as follows: (a) 55; (b) 108 (excluding Crown corporations).


REMOVAL OF FEDERAL SALES TAX ON SHOES AND CLOTHING
Mr. Brisco: In what cities, towns and villages is monitoring being conducted to determine the effects of the removal of the federal sales tax on shoes and clothing?


André Ouellet: The field survey portion of the Department of Consumer and Corporate Affairs' study on the effects on prices of the removal of federal sales tax on clothing and footwear has been concentrated mainly in the urban centres of Halifax, Montreal, Toronto, Winnipeg, Regina, Edmonton and Vancouver. Survey work particularly at the manufacturing level has also included a number of smaller centres in both Ontario and Quebec.


DRUG AND ALCOHOL RELATED CRIMES
Mr. Brisco: Excluding non-drug and alcohol related crimes, what is the average number of RCMP Der 1,000 crimes serving in (a) British Columbia (b) each of the other provinces (c) Canada?


William Warren Allmand: Neither the Royal Canadian Mounted Police nor Statistics Canada maintain the type of statistics required to isolate drug and alcohol related crimes. It is impossible, therefore, to provide a reply to the question as asked.


QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS
Mr. Cossitt: 1.	Since January 1, 1971, how many wives of Public Service personnel who are not themselves employed in the Public Service received language training courses, directly or indirectly, at the expense of the government?
2.	How many of those involved took (a) English language courses (b) French language training courses?
3.	What was the total expenditure of public funds involved in this regard?
4.	What are the names of those involved along with the names of their husbands and their husband's positions in the Public Service?
Return tabled.
2498

January 22, 1975
Order Paper Questions


APPOINTMENT OF MR. PIERRE BRISSON TO THE CANADIAN EMBASSY IN CAIRO
Mr. Macquarrie: 1.	(a) On what date was Mr. Pierre Brisson of the Department of Manpower and Immigration posted to the Canadian Embassy in Cairo (b) how long did he serve there?
2.	On what date did Mr. Brisson join the Public Service?
3.	What reason or reasons prompted Mr. Brisson's recall from Cairo?
4.	From what groups or individuals were complaints received regarding Mr. Brisson's performance or public utterances while attached to the Cairo Embassy?
5.	Following his recall from Cairo what was Mr. Brisson's status with the Department and what duties did he perform at Ottawa?
6.	Was Mr. Brisson dismissed from the Public Service and, if so, for what reasons and on what date?
7.	What appeal proceedings were carried out, on what dates and with what participants?
8.	Since the establishment of the Department of External Affairs how many (a) officers of that Department (b) officers of other government departments attached to Canadian Embassies abroad have been dismissed from governmental service?
9.	In each case what were the reasons for such dismissal?
10.	What changes have been made in the personnel of the Canadian Embassy in Santiago, Chile subsequent to the death of President Allende?
Return tabled.


NAMES OF PRINTING FIRMS IN QUEBEC IN RECEIPT OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Mr. Cossitt: What are the names and addresses of all printing firms in the Province of Quebec who received business from the government during the past fiscal year and what was the total amount in dollars paid by the government to each firm?
Return tabled.


PERSONNEL EMPLOYED AT PRIME MINISTER'S OFFICIAL RESIDENCE AND SUMMER RESIDENCE
Mr. Cossitt: What are the names, job descriptions, annual salaries, dates of appointment and any previous government employment of all persons, paid in whole or in part from public funds, who are employed in connection with the operation of the Prime Minister's official residence at 24 Sussex Drive and his summer residence at Harrington Lake?
Return tabled.


NUMBER OF DEPARTMENTAL BOOKLETS PRINTED IN LANGUAGE OTHER THAN ENGLISH OR FRENCH
Mr. Herbert: 1.	How many current departmental booklets and pamphlets are printed for use in Canada in a language other than English and French?
2.	What languages are chosen and what is the basis for the choice?
3.	How many of these same booklets and pamphlets contain no identification of their content in either one of the official languages?
Return tabled.


CANADIAN ARMED FORCES AS OF MARCH 31, 1969 AND MARCH 31, 1973
Mr. Orlikow: How many members of the Canadian Armed Forces were there in each rank as of March 31, 1969 and as of March 31, 1973 and what were the salary ranges for each rank on those two dates?
Return tabled.


PUBLIC WORKS PROJECTS IN ABITIBI CONSTITUENCY DURING 1973-74
Mr. Laprise: 1.	What works were carried out by the Department of Public Works in the constituency of Abitibi during the year 1973-74?
2.	What works does the Department of Public Works expect to effect in the constituency of Abitibi during the 1974-75 fiscal year?
Return tabled.


CANADIAN ARMED FORCES
Mr. Whittaker: 1.	What is the present size of the Canadian Forces?
2.	What was Canada's contribution in terms of cash to (a) NATO (b) NORAD from 1968 to 1974 inclusive?
3.	What is the approximate distribution of our forces in the world?
4.	What was Canada's contribution to the United Nations in terms of cash and fighting forces from 1968 to 1974 inclusive?
5.	What was the total cost of our peacekeeping in terms of cash in the Middle East, Cyprus?
6.	What is the estimated amount of money and forces Canada will need to keep its commitments to the various organizations mentioned above?
Return tabled.


NUMBER OF PUBLIC SERVANTS BY DEPARTMENT
Mr. Orlikow: 1.	For each department, departmental corporation and agency corporation, what was the total number of employees on January 1, 1972 and January 1, 1974?
2.	For each department or corporation, how many employees were located (a) in the Ottawa-Hull capital area (b) outside of the Ottawa-Hull capital area, by place, on January 1, 1972 and January 1, 1974?
Return tabled.
SALARIES AND DUTIES OF SECTION HEADS IN EXPOSITIONS/AUDIO-VISUAL DIRECTORATE OF INFORMATION CANADA

Question No. 323-Mr. Paproski:
1.	What are the (a) present salary ranges (b) official duties assigned to each of the following Section Heads in the Expositions/Audio-Visual Directorate of Information Canada (i) Director (ii) Phototheque (iii) Design Unit (iv) Design Support (v) Theme and Research (vi) AudioVisual Services (vii) Project Unit (viii) Finance and Management (ix) Production, Warehousing and Traffic?
2.	(a) What was the actual written output produced by each of the above sections from August 1, 1973 to August 1, 1974 (b) how many of these publications (per section) were used by (i) that division (ii) other departmental divisions (iii) the public?
3.	(a) What was the overall budget for the Expositions/Audio-Visual Directorate of Information Canada for the fiscal year 1973 (b) what percentage of this budget was used to pay salaries for the directorate?
January 22, 1975

4.	(a) How many persons are presently employed by each section of the Expositions/Audio-Visual Directorate of Information Canada (b) how many persons (per section) were actually involved in the production of the written output for that section (c) what is the salary range for persons employed by these sections?
Return tabled.


NUMBER OF ESCAPEES FROM FEDERAL PENAL INSTITUTIONS
Mr. Coates: 1.	How many inmates escaped from federal penal institutions during the years 1973, 1972 and 1968?
2.	How many have been returned to custody?
3.	How many escaped from each of the following institutions: (a) Dorchester (b) Springhill (c) Cowansville (d) St. Vincent de Paul (e) Archambault (f) Leclerc (g) Laval (h) Kingston (i) Collins Bay (j) Millhaven (maximum) (k) Millhaven (minimum) (1) Joyceville (m) Washworth (n) Stony Mountain (o) Saskatchewan (p) Drumheller (q) Matsqui (r) British Columbia (s) William Head?
4.	How many inmates of federal penal institutions escaped while on temporary leaves of absence in 1973?
5.	How many were under escort while on leave?
6.	Were any escorts of inmates who escaped suspended and, if so, how many?
Return tabled.


USE OF ARMOURIES IN REGINA FOR NON-MILITARY PURPOSES
Mr. Benjamin: In the past five years (a) what individuals or organizations used the armouries in the City of Regina for non-military use (b) for what purposes were the armouries used (c) on what dates did they use the armouries?
Return tabled.


NUMBER OF PUBLIC SERVANTS WHO ATTENDED LAW OF THE SEA CONFERENCE IN VENEZUELA, 1974
Mr. Crouse: 1.	How many public servants and Minister(s) attended the Law of the Sea Conference in Venezuela, 1974, and, in each case, what was the name, position and function of duties at the conference?
2.	In each case, what was the means and class of transportation used and the amount of lodging, travel and food expenses allotted while in Venezuela?
Return tabled.


NUMBER OF PUBLIC SERVANTS WHO ATTENDED BUCHAREST CONFERENCE OF WORLD POPULATION IN AUGUST, 1974
Mr. Roche: 1.	How many public servants and Minister(s) attended the Bucharest Conference of World Population in August 1974 and, in each case, what was the name, position and function of duties at the Conference?
2.	In each case, what was the means and class of transportation used and the amount of lodging, travel and food expenses allotted while in Bucharest?
Return tabled.
Order Paper Questions SHU 74-100 SURVEY 
Question No. 364-Mr. McKenzie:
1.	How many copies of Form SHU 74-100 were printed and at what cost?
2.	By province, how many homes are to be surveyed and how many times?
3.	(a) How many interviewers will be hired in each province and what will be their rate of pay (b) what will be the total cost of hiring the interviewers?
4.	(a) What method is used for hiring interviewers (b) what government department hires them?
5.	Are any of the interviewers hired by recommendation from Cabinet Ministers or government officials or Liberal MP's or any Liberal Party officials?
6.	(a) What will be the total cost of the SHU 74-100 Survey (b) what will be the cost by province (c) what government departments will pay for the survey?
7.	How long will the completion of the survey take?
8.	What is the rationale to the survey?
9.	Does the government expect to achieve lower interest rates and have more serviced land made available from the results of the survey?
10.	Will the results of the survey be made public?
Return tabled.


NATIONAL ENERGY BOARD-HIRING OF CONSULTANTS
Mr. MacKay: 1.	From the 1968 fiscal year to date (a) how many consultants were hired (b) what were the terms of reference and time length of the work assignment (c) what was the amount paid to each (d) what was the name of each for the National Energy Board?
2.	What are the names, positions, number and salaries of public servants for the National Energy Board that held a position similar to that of the outside consultant hired by the government?
Return tabled.


SALARIES AND DUTIES OF SECTION HEADS IN PERSONNEL SERVICES BRANCH, NATIONAL RESEARCH COUNCIL
Mr. Holmes: 1.	What are the (a) present salary ranges (b) official duties assigned to each of the following Section Heads in the Personnel Services Branch of the National Research Council (i) Classification and Collective Bargaining (ii) Employment and Staff Development (iii) Personnel Statistics, Staff Strength and Employee Data Processing Records (iv) Post-Doctorate Fellowships Tenable at NRC and in Canadian Government Laboratories (v) Staff Regulations and Benefits?
2.	(a) How many persons are presently employed by each section of the Personnel Services Branch (b) what is the salary range for persons employed by these sections?
3.	(a) What was the overall budget, including grants, for the Personnel Services Branch for the fiscal year 1973 (b) what percentage of this budget was used to pay salaries for the Personnel Services Branch?
Return tabled.


CANADIAN CONTRIBUTION TO FOOD AID FOR THIRD WORLD, 1973-74
Mr. Hnatyshyn: 1.	With regard to food aid for Third World and developing countries for the year 1973 and the first six months of 1974 (a) what was Canada's contribution (b) to which countries did Canada contribute (c) in each case, what food products were contributed and at what dollar value?
28626 -24j/2

January 22, 1975
Order Paper Questions
2.	What was the (a) administrative cost (b) cost of distribution (c) value of the food product?	,
Return tabled.


NAMES OF COMPANIES ALLOWED TO PRINT FORMS TO BE USED IN CONJUNCTION WITH FEDERAL ELECTION EXPENSES LEGISLATION
Mr. Benjamin: 1.	Which companies have been allowed to print the necessary forms, receipt books, journals, etc. to be used in conjunction with federal election expenses legislation which was proclaimed August, 1974?
2.	Where is the printing being done?
3.	Was the printing tendered or allotted and (a) if tendered, was the work done by the low tenderer (b) if allotted, what would be the basis of payment for the job?
Return tabled.


DEPARTMENT OF SUPPLY AND SERVICES-RESEARCH EXPENSES
Mr. Symes: 1.	What was the total amount of money spent in each of the fiscal years 1972-73 and 1973-74 by the Department of Supply and Services on contracts to outside persons and organizations for research, development and other consulting services?
2.	What are the names and addresses of these outside persons and organizations and what amounts of money were involved in each contract?
3.	What was the purpose of each contract and title of each report submitted?
Return tabled.


MINISTRY OF STATE FOR URBAN AFFAIRS EXPENDITURES ON HOUSING
Mr. Dick: 1.	In each of the fiscal years 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973 and 1974 (a) what was the amount of money that the Ministry of State for Urban Affairs expended on housing (b) what was the name of each program (c) what amount was spent for each such program?
2.	For each of the same years (a) what percentage of Canadians lived in cities or communities of (i) 100,000 or more population (ii) 25,000 to 100,000 (iii) 10,000 to 25,000 (iv) 7,000 or less (b) what percentage of CMHC programme funds were made available to each such city or community?
Return tabled.


CMHC HOUSING EXPENDITURES
Mr. Jones: 1.	How much money has been spent in housing in the present fiscal year by Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation?
2.	(a) How many housing units have been erected through funds from CMHC (b) what is the breakdown in dollars and units for each province?
Return tabled.


PUBLIC SERVICE-MONEY SPENT ON BILINGUALISM DEVELOPMENT
Mr. Jones: 1.	How much money has been spent on (a) bilingualism in the Public Service and agencies of government (b) grants towards bilingualism development?
2.	(a) What is the total amount of money spent on bilingualism during the present fiscal year (b) how does this compare with the amount spent for housing during the same period?
Return tabled.


DREE-SUBSIDIZATION OF CERAMIC TILE PLANT AT TROIS-RIVIERES, QUEBEC
Mr. Schellenberger: 1.	Did the Department of Regional Economic Expansion subsidize of help fund a ceramic tile plant at Trois-Rivieres, Quebec, owned by San Salvo de Madena Company of Italy and, if so, has the Department undertaken a study as to whether the projected output of the plant is in line with the $14 million construction cost?
2.	Did some Canadian brick and tile companies, chiefly from Western Canada, vigorously seek federal assistance to increase their ability to manufacture ceramic tile and other ceramic products and, if so, with what results?
3.	Is it the policy of DREE to encourage foreign domination in this industry rather than helping to improve existing Canadian ventures?
Return tabled.


INTEREST FREE OR NOMINAL INTEREST RATE LOANS TO FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS SINCE DECEMBER 31, 1970
Mr. Caouette (Temiscamingue): 1.	Since December 31, 1970, what sums did the government loan interest-free or at nominal interest rates to (a) foreign governments (b) non-governmental agencies in foreign countries?
2.	What were the countries and agencies involved and the sums received by each?
3.	What criteria were applied in determining the suitability of the recipients of these loans?
4.	On what dates and upon what conditions does repayment of these loans become due?
5.	To date, what proportion of these loans or of loans issued previous to December 31, 1970, was recovered either through the purchase of Canadian products or through direct repayment?
Return tabled.


CONSTRUCTION OF REVENUE POST OFFICES IN NOVA SCOTIA
Mr. MacKay: 1.	How many revenue post offices have been constructed in the Province of Nova Scotia during the past eight years?
2.	How many post offices were constructed in the Province of Nova Scotia in the years 1956 to 1966?
3.	What was the revenue for each of the post offices in the Province of Nova Scotia during the past fiscal year?
Return tabled.
January 22, 1975


TRANSLATION OF DEPARTMENT OF CONSUMER AND CORPORATE AFFAIRS FORMS INTO FRENCH LANGUAGE
Mr. McKenzie: 1.	What documents of any and all description (such as any type of form, records, stationery, employee directives, etc.) within the entire Department of Consumer and Corporate Affairs have to be translated into the French language?
2.	Retroactive to what date will all past records of the Department have to be translated?
3.	At what date must all of these translations be completed?
4.	What amount of money was spent in the years 1973 and 1974 for translating such documents?
5.	What will be the total cost of translating all existing documents, forms, stationery, records, etc. within the Department's entire operation?
6.	What is the total additional yearly cost of ordering all new forms, stationery, etc. in two languages compared to the cost in one language?
Return tabled.


TRANSLATION OF DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT FORMS INTO FRENCH LANGUAGE
Mr. McKenzie: 1.	What documents of any and all description (such as any type of form, records, stationery, employee directives, etc.) within the entire Department of Transport have to be translated into the French language?
2.	Retroactive to what date will all past records of the Department have to be translated?
3.	At what date must all of these translations be completed?
4.	What amount of money was spent in the years 1973 and 1974 for translating such documents?
5.	What will be the total cost of translating all existing documents, forms, stationery, records, etc. within the Department's entire operation?
6.	What is the total additional yearly cost of ordering all new forms, stationery, etc. in two languages compared to the cost in one language?
Return tabled.


TRANSLATION OF DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS FORMS INTO FRENCH LANGUAGE
Mr. McKenzie: 1.	What documents of any and all description (such as any type of form, records, stationery, employee directives, etc.) within the entire Department of Veterans Affairs have to be translated into the French language?
2.	Retroactive to what date will all past records of the Department have to be translated?
3.	At what date must all of these translations be completed?
4.	What amount of money was spent in the years 1973 and 1974 for translating such documents?
5.	What will be the total cost of translating all existing documents, forms, stationery, records, etc. within the Department's entire operation?
6.	What is the total additional yearly cost of ordering all new forms, stationery, etc. in two languages compared to the cost in one language?
Return tabled.
Order Paper Questions


PERMITS ISSUED BY DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, 1974, FOR IMPORT OF EXOTIC BREEDS OF CATTLE
Mr. Neil: 1.	How many permits were issued by the Department of Agriculture in 1974 for import of exotic breeds of cattle?
2.	What were the names and addresses of all individuals who obtained permits?
3.	How many animals passed through each of the quarantine stations from January 1, 1974 to date?
Return tabled.


RIVER GUARDIANS AND RIVER WARDENS-CONSTITUENCY OF HUMBER-ST. GEORGE'S-ST. BARBE
Mr. Marshall: 1.	For the constituency of Humber-St. George's-St. Barbe, what is the meal allowance for (a) fisheries river guardians (b) fisheries river wardens (c) fisheries officers while on patrol and away from their place of residence?
2.	Are river guardians employed only three months of the year and, if so, what protection is provided for salmon spawning grounds after September?
3.	Is any consideration being given to extending the period of employment for river wardens and guardians to provide better pollution control and, if not, for what reason?
4.	During the fiscal years 1972-73 and 1973-74 in the constituency (a) what were the costs for transportation for fisheries officers for (i) vehicle hire (ii) fuel, etc. (iii) helicopter hire (b) what was the record of log hours, dates and costs of helicopter use?
5.	How many Department of the Environment (Fisheries) vehicles are in use in the Humber-St. George's-St. Barbe constituency?
6.	(a) In the constituency, what properties owned by the Department of the Environment (Fisheries) are used as shelter for fisheries guardians and other officers while on patrol (b) what is the condition of this property (c) is it being maintained and, if not, what consideration is being given for future use or disposal?
7.	(a) What are the boundaries of each fisheries district and sub-district within Newfoundland (b) how many fisheries guardians are responsible for each sub-district?
Return tabled.


NAMES OF INSTITUTIONS MAINTAINED BY GOVERNMENT IN FIELD OF FORESTRY
Mr. Oberle: 1.	What is the (a) name (b) location (c) function of each institution maintained by the government in the field of forestry?
2.	Is the Forestry Service involved in funding a number of projects throughout Canada jointly with provinces and/or universities and, if so (a) what are the names of the institutions receiving such grants (b) where are they located (c) what are the activities carried out by the recipients (d) what was the amount of the various grants?
Return tabled.


BILINGUAL POSITIONS IN PUBLIC SERVICE
Mr. Cossitt: With reference to the recent statement by the President of the Treasury Board that approximately 53,600 positions in the Public Service have been designated bilingual, what are all the factors used in determining whether or not specific jobs in the public Service are declared bilingual?
Return tabled.

Order Paper Questions


TRANSLATION OF MINISTRY OF STATE FOR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY FORMS INTO FRENCH LANGUAGE
Mr. McKenzie: 1.	What documents of any and all description (such as any type of form, records, stationery, employee directives, etc.) within the entire Ministry of State for Science and Technology have to be translated into the French language?
2.	Retroactive to what date will all past records of the Ministry have to be translated?
3.	At what date must all of these translations be completed?
4.	What amount of money was spent in the years 1973 and 1974 for translating such documents?
5.	What will be the total cost of translating all existing documents, forms, stationery, records, etc. within the Ministry's entire operation?
6.	What is the total additional yearly cost of ordering all new forms, stationery, etc. in two languages compared to the cost in one language?
Return tabled.


TRANSLATION OF DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS FORMS INTO FRENCH LANGUAGE
Mr. McKenzie: 1.	What documents of any and all description (such as any type of form, records, stationery, employee directives, etc.) within the entire Department of Public Works have to be translated into the French language?
2.	Retroactive to what date will all past records of the Department have to be translated?
3.	At what date must all of these translations be completed?
4.	What amount of money was spent in the years 1973 and 1974 for translating such documents?
5.	What will be the total cost of translating all existing documents, forms, stationery, records, etc. within the Department's entire operation?
6.	What is the total additional yearly cost of ordering all new forms, stationery, etc. in two languages compared to the cost in one language?
Return tabled.


TRANSLATION OF MINISTRY OF STATE FOR URBAN AFFAIRS FORMS INTO FRENCH LANGUAGE
Mr. McKenzie: 1.	What documents of any and all description (such as any type of form, records, stationery, employee directives, etc.) within the entire Ministry of State for Urban Affairs have to be translated into the French language?
2.	Retroactive to what date will all past records of the Ministry have to be translated?
3.	At what date must all of these translations be completed?
4.	What amount of money was spent in the years 1973 and 1974 for translating such documents?
5.	What will be the total cost of translating all existing documents, forms, stationery, records, etc. within the Ministry's entire operation?
6.	What is the total additional yearly cost of ordering all new forms, stationery, etc. in two languages compared to the cost in one language?
Return tabled.


DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS-TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENTS
Mr. McKenzie: 1. What documents of any and all description (such as any type of form, records, stationery, employee directives, etc.) within the entire

Department of External Affairs have to be translated into the French language?
2.	Retroactive to what date will all past records of the Department have to be translated?
3.	At what date must all of these translations be completed?
4.	What amount of money was spent in the years 1973 and 1974 for translating such documents?
5.	What will be the total cost of translating all existing documents, forms, stationery, records, etc. within the Department's entire operation?
6.	What is the total additional yearly cost of ordering all new forms, stationery, etc. in two languages compared to the cost in one language?
Return tabled.


STUDY REGARDING IMPLEMENTATION OF OFFICIAL LANGUAGES ACT
Mr. Horner: 1.	Who will carry out the study, mentioned by the President of the Treasury Board in Hansard of November 21, page 1,519, regarding the implementation of the Official Languages Act, to determine for what reason some persons appear to be unable to learn a second language?
2.	What criteria are used in identifying bilingual positions in the Public Service?
3.	Who is on the Official Languages Committee of the National Joint Council?
Return tabled.


EXPORTS AND IMPORTS OF COAL
Mr. Clark (Rocky Mountain): 1.	What tonnages of coal were (a) exported (b) imported in each year (i) 1950 (ii) 1955 (iii) 1960 (iv) 1965 (v) 1970 (vi) 1972 (vii) 1973?
2.	In each such year, what were the countries (a) to whom Canada exported (b) from whom Canada imported significant amounts of coal?
Return tabled.


TRANSLATION OF DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR FORMS INTO FRENCH LANGUAGE
Mr. McKenzie: 1.	What documents of any and all description (such as any type of form, records, stationery, employee directives, etc.) within the entire Department of Labour have to be translated into the French language?
2.	Retroactive to what date will all past records of the Department have to be translated?
3.	At what date must all of these translations be completed?
4.	What amount of money was spent in the years 1973 and 1974 for translating such documents?
5.	What will be the total cost of translating all existing documents, forms, stationery, records, etc. within the Department's entire operation?
6.	What is the total additional yearly cost of ordering all new forms, stationery, etc. in two languages compared to the cost in one language?
Return tabled.


TRANSLATION OF TREASURY BOARD FORMS INTO FRENCH LANGUAGE
Mr. McKenzie: 1. What documents of any and all description (such as any type of form, records, stationery, employee directives, etc.) within the entire Treasury Board have to be translated into the French language?
January 22, 1975

2.	Retroactive to what date will all past records of the department have to be translated?
3.	At what date must all of these translations be completed?
4.	What amount of money was spent in the years 1973 and 1974 for translating such documents?
5.	What will be the total cost of translating all existing documents, forms, stationery, records, etc. within the department's entire operation?
6.	What is the total additional yearly cost of ordering all new forms, stationery, etc. in two languages compared to the cost in one language?
Return tabled.


MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
[Stage Direction]
Motion No. 13-Mr. Marshall:
That an Order of the House do issue for a copy of all material resulting from the first meeting of the VLA senior management team convened by the Director-General of the Veterans' Land Administration in Ottawa from March 26 to 29, 1973 as follows (a) operational plans in the periods before and after March 31, 1974 deadline for new loan applications (b) further implementation of MBO as the VLA style of management.
Daniel Joseph MacDonald: Mr. Speaker, with regard to notice of motion No. 13, the documents requested are internal, departmental documents of a confidential nature and cannot be produced. I would therefore ask the hon. member to withdraw his motion.


Mr. Speaker:: This relates to notice of motion for production of papers No. 13.


Mr. Orlikow:: Transfer for debate.


Mr. Speaker:: Transferred for debate.


John Mercer Reid: Mr. Speaker, since we have inadvertently dealt with notice of motion No. 13, the others to be called are Nos. 3, 16 and 21.


Right Hon. J. G. Diefenbaker (Prince Albert):: Mr. Speaker, I endeavoured to rise a few minutes ago at the conclusion of the questions on the order paper to deal with one that was answered, or purported to be answered, when I was not in the House. It had to do with the Honourable John Whitney Pickersgill and was answered in such a way as to be a travesty on parliament. I would hope that now that the House leader has learned the rudimentaries of parliamentary procedure by his trip to the United Kingdom, he would have this question reinstated so it can be answered properly and fully, there having been no answer, only an evasion. I can understand that the answer would be embarrassing to the government, but as yet that is not a defence to the answering of proper questions.
Motions for Papers


COPY OF STUDIES FOR ADVISORY GROUP ON EXECUTIVE COMPENSATION IN THE PUBLIC SERVICE
[Stage Direction]
Motion No. 3-Mr. Orlikow:
That an Order of the House do issue for a copy of studies prepared for the Advisory Group on Executive Compensation in the Public Service comparing salaries paid to senior public servants and salaries paid to senior executives in private industry.
John Mercer Reid: Mr. Speaker, the studies prepared for the advisory group on executive compensation in the public service contain salary data taken from several surveys on the movement of executive salaries, both within and outside the federal public service. Data taken from these surveys is considered to be proprietary and I, therefore, ask that the motion be withdrawn.


David Orlikow: Transfer for debate.


Mr. Speaker:: Transferred for debate.


COPIES OF CORRESPONDENCE RELATING TO APPOINTMENT OF FIFTH SUPREME COURT JUDGE, CORNER BROOK, NEWFOUNDLAND
[Stage Direction]
Motion No. 16-Mr. Marshall:
That an humble Address be presented to His Excellency praying that he will cause to be laid before this House a copy of all correspondence between the Ministers of Justice of the federal government and the Government of Newfoundland having to do with the appointment of a fifth Supreme Court Judge to be located in Corner Brook, Newfoundland.
Gilles Marceau: This is the reply to the hon. member for Humber-St. George's-St. Barbe:

That part of the correspondence between the Ministers of Justice of the federal government and the government of Newfoundland having to do with the appointment of a fifth Supreme Court judge to be located in Corner Brook, Newfoundland, cannot be separated from the items of this correspondence dealing with other issues of a confidential nature.

I therefore ask the hon. member to withdraw his motion.


Mr. Speaker:: That is agreed. The motion is withdrawn. Motion withdrawn and order discharged.


COPY OF LETTER ABOUT GRANT TO WOMEN'S GROUP IN SASKATOON
[Stage Direction]
Motion No. 21-Mr. Fairweather:
That an Order of the House do issue for a copy of a letter written by the Minister of Justice to the Secretary of State, dated October 21, 1974, about a grant to a women's group in Saskatoon.
Gilles Marceau: This is the reply to the hon. member for Fundy-Royal:

The copy of the letter, dated October 21, 1974, written by the Minister of Justice to the Secretary of State, about a

January 22, 1975
Oral Questions
grant to a women's group in Saskatoon, deals with legal advice for government use.

I therefore ask the hon. member to withdraw his motion.


Mr. Fairweather:: Transfer for debate, Mr. Speaker. Most of it has already been released.


Mr. Speaker:: Transferred for debate.


John Mercer Reid: Mr. Speaker, I ask that the remaining notices of motions stand.


Mr. Speaker:: Is that agreed?


Some hon. Members:: Agreed.



ORAL QUESTION PERIOD


Robert Lorne Stanfield: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Transport.
The 18-month freeze period applicable to rail freight rates had been initiated at the Western Economic Opportunities Conference, supposedly to give the government time to formulate a new and more equitable transport policy. Is the minister reconsidering his support of the freeze suspension, since no new policy has come up during the last 18 months?


Hon. dean Marchand (Minister of Transport):: Mr. Speaker, if the hon. Leader of the Opposition will refer to Hansard, he will see that our request to the two railway companies not to raise their prices was made before the conference in the west. It was not related to the conference of Calgary, but we made it to the railway companies in order to make an example, because the pressure of inflation was beginning to be felt.
As regards the effect of our request, Mr. Speaker, we were able to analize it afterwards. Of course, during the following months, we realized that that accounted for only 22 per cent of the revenue of the railway companies. The rates that were provided for by contract, the rates that were agreed on with shippers, were in no way affected by the agreement that had been made, and that created an important distortion with the rates established by the trucking companies.
In the circumstances, Mr. Speaker, and since we had made a commitment that the freeze would last only until December 31, I think that policy was not a real policy, but only an example the government wanted to give the Canadian people. If we want a price freeze policy, it will have to be global, and not cover only 22 per cent, but 100 per cent of the economy, not only of the railway rates, but

of other prices also. That is what Canadian voters rejected later on.


DATE OF ANNOUNCEMENT OF NEW POLICY-POSSIBLE MAINTENANCE OF FREIGHT RATE FREEZE
Robert Lorne Stanfield: supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. This is the first time I have heard the government reject selective price controls in favour of global price controls when it suited the government's convenience. In view of the fact that one of the main reasons for the freeze was to give the government time to put a better program in place, did the minister say in Halifax, or has he said, that it is his expectation that he will be announcing a new, improved transport policy late in the spring, or was the official right when he said that it would take more than a year to develop such a policy?


Jean Marchand: Mr. Speaker, what I said in Halifax was that I hoped the policy we are working on will be completed as soon as possible so that I will be in a position to present it to the Cabinet for appropriate Cabinet committee study, and that as soon as possible we can bring in a new transportation program that will correct the shortcomings we have now.


Robert Lorne Stanfield: Mr. Speaker, if we are to get this new program by spring, as reported-


Jean Marchand: I did not speak about any new program, I spoke about policies.


Robert Lorne Stanfield: Mr. Speaker, if we are to get this new improved policy by spring, admitting the weaknesses involved in a continued freeze, why was it beyond the ingenuity of the government to maintain the freeze during the intervening four or five months before we get the new policy rather than subject shippers and consumers to all the dislocations resulting from the increase in rates that are going to take place plus the abandonment of the l.c.l. rate, while we are waiting for this new improved policy of the minister.


Jean Marchand: Mr. Speaker, I do not think the Leader of the Opposition is right when he says this freeze was related to a new policy in the field of transportation. As I stated here, I think this is only an example to the Canadian population of a field in which we can do something, and we wanted to indicate that it was our hope that everybody would follow this example. That was not done and at this time I think there would have been more distortion by keeping this very partial freeze than we now have as a result of lifting it as we did.


Mr. Mazankowski:: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I think I must draw certain things to the attention of the House, and obviously refresh the minister's memory in view of his indication that the freeze had no relationship to the Western Economic Conference. I have a document in my hand, from which I should like to quote in order to straighten out a distortion the minister is trying to perpetuate upon the House of Commons and, indeed,

January 22, 1975
the Canadian people. One of the very first points he mentioned in his speech to the Western Economic Conference was in fact the extension of the railway freight rate freeze for a period of 18 months. Let me quote what he said as follows:
-the Federal Government is discussing with the railways the need to refrain from any new freight rate increases on the so-called across the board items for a period of eighteen months. This will permit us the time to examine with you and to find a solution to those freight rate anomalies which are genuinely detrimental to the West.
That indicates the distortion he is perpetuating in the House on this particular occasion.


Jean Marchand: Mr. Speaker, this is exactly what we did since-


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh!


Jean Marchand: This is exactly what we did.


An hon. Member:: You have lost your marbles
completely.


Jean Marchand: Oh, no, and if you do not know the facts maybe it would be helpful if I outlined them for you. I can tell you that we had many meetings with the western ministers. We instituted a special study of freight rates in order to correct discriminatory rates as far as the west is concerned. These studies are almost ready, and I think the ministers of transport in the west are aware of the fact that there has been a global study made. This is exactly what we have done. Right now I think the ministers in the west are not ready to accept the studies in their present form and would like to make some suggestions. It is my duty to listen to them and wait for their replies.


FREIGHT RATE INCREASES-INTERVENTION BY DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ON BEHALF OF RAILWAYS-MINISTER'S POSITION
Mr. Jack Murta (Lisgar):: Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question to those asked by the leader of this party. I might say that I, for one, and I think certainly all members on this side of the House, do not believe that the government has a transportation policy in the works.


Some hon. Members:: Question, question.


Jack Burnett Murta: Mr. Speaker, my supplementary question has to do with freight rates and the intervention by the Department of Justice that occurred just recently. Does the Minister of Transport consider it appropriate that the Department of Justice chose to intervene on behalf of the railways in a case before the federal court of appeal involving freight rate increases? Does the minister feel that this is an appropriate way to move as far as transportation policy is concerned?


Jean Marchand: Mr. Speaker, I try to run the Department of Transport. If the ministry of justice finds it proper to intervene I think questions should be directed to the Minister of Justice and not to me.


Jack Burnett Murta: Mr. Speaker, I would then ask the Minister of Transport whether he has given serious consideration to
Oral Questions
resigning from his position and allowing someone else to take over?


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


THE CANADIAN ECONOMY
John Edward Broadbent: Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that we learned one day last week that we had a month over month increase in the inflation rate of 11 per cent, and on another day we learned of a substantial increase in the unemployment level, which means that if the two apply for the rest of this year we will likely experience an unemployment average of 7 per cent this year with inflation running at about 10 per cent to 12 per cent, would the Minister of Finance inform the House if these alarming facts have caused his department to reassess its position, and will the minister be in a position soon to come before the House with a new economic policy whose objective is to achieve full employment soon and at least mitigate the effects of this terrible inflation?


John Napier Turner: Mr. Speaker, without accepting the hon. gentleman's predictions based on the facts he has adduced to the House, let me say that if the hon. gentleman would be good enough to re-read my speech of November 18 when I brought the budget down he will see that I forecast a slower economic growth that would result in higher unemployment. He will see also that I repeated to the House the fact that inflation was severely imbedded in our economy and other economies throughout the world to a greater extent than anyone had anticipated six months ago. It was in light of these facts that we added stimulus to the economy, the effects of which should be felt during the year 1975 as time lags are worked out. So the economic policy of the government is fully stated in the November 18 budget in anticipation of the facts recited by the hon. gentleman.


John Edward Broadbent: Mr. Speaker, I would ask a supplementary question in order to have the matter perfectly clear. Notwithstanding anything that has happened since the minister outlined his economic policy on behalf of the government in November, including the new forecasts made from within his own department, as I understand it, the minister has not changed in any way that policy he outlined in the House in November?


John Napier Turner: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman knows me well enough to know that we are reviewing the situation on a day to day basis.


An hon. Member:: That is what we were afraid of.

January 22, 1975
Oral Questions SOCIAL SECURITY


PROPOSAL OF CANADIAN LABOUR CONGRESS FOR REVAMPING PENSION PLANS-GOVERNMENT POSITION
John Edward Broadbent: Mr. Speaker, in the absence of the Minister of National Health and Welfare I should like to direct this question to the Prime Minister. Considering the chaotic state of private pension plans and the inadequacies of the Canada Pension Plan, will the Prime Minister assure the House that as one means of helping those affected by inflation, specifically the pensioners, the government will give serious consideration to the proposals by the Canadian Labour Congress involving a total revamping of pension plans so that Canadians can expect a pension at age 60 based on three-quarters of their incomes during the last years of their working lives?


Miss Coline Campbell (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of National Health and Welfare):: Mr. Speaker, I will take the hon. member's question as notice.


ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE
David Réal Caouette: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Solicitor General.
In view of the frightening situation existing in the country as regards crime, in the province of Quebec and especially in Montreal, where more than 30 murders have been perpetrated within a 22-day period, that is since January 1, does the government intend to revise the legislation on capital punishment in order to prevent those series of murders which are a disgrace to our Canadian society?


William Warren Allmand: Mr. Speaker, we have no intention at present of revising the law on capital punishment, but we are looking seriously at measures-


Some hon. Members:: Shame!


William Warren Allmand: -to prevent the sort of crimes that are taking place in the country.


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh!


David Réal Caouette: Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary. Is it the minister's opinion that a referendum would not help determine the legislative measures of the Canadian Parliament?


William Warren Allmand: No, Mr. Speaker, it is not part of our constitutional system to regulate these matters by referendum.


David Réal Caouette: Mr. Speaker, I should like to put one last supplementary. The night before last, I heard the minister say on television that capital punishment would solve nothing. If Mr. Blass, who has several murders to his credit, were freed today, would the minister hire him in his business or organization to rehabilitate him?


William Warren Allmand: Well, Mr. Speaker, our first goal is to recapture Blass and have him returned to prison to serve the sentence he has at present and to stand trial for any other charges.


An hon. Member:: Oh, isn't that tough!


FINANCE
Mr. Sinclair Stevens (York-Simcoe):: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance. In view of the minister's failure to persuade his colleague, the Secretary of State for External Affairs, to strengthen the terms of a $10 million loan to Cuba as revealed in a series of letters and memos recently made public and in view of the statements of the Minister of State for Urban Affairs that he is making deals with Arab interests to bring mortgage money into the country without apparent reference to the Minister of Finance, would the minister indicate if the Arab financing deals have in fact been referred to his department for approval and, if not, has he secured from the Minister of State for Urban Affairs an assurance that he will abide by his decision when made?


John Napier Turner: There is no problem, Mr. Speaker.


Sinclair McKnight Stevens: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the same minister.


An hon. Member:: Same answer.


Sinclair McKnight Stevens: If there is no problem, I would like the minister to indicate whether in fact he has written to the Prime Minister pointing out his difficulties with respect to certain cabinet colleagues, and specifically that he feels his department should have a stronger voice in cabinet when matters of finance are being dealt with.


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh!


TRANSPORT
Mr. Jack Marshall (Humber-St. George's-St. Barbe):: Mr. Speaker, my question is supplementary to that of the Leader of the Opposition to the Minister of Transport
January 22, 1975

Oral Questions CONSUMER AFFAIRS
having to do with LCL rates. In view of the fact that the removal of LCL rates to the Atlantic region, and particularly Newfoundland, will create hardship to small businesses and increase costs, resulting in increased costs to the consumer, would the minister direct CNR to reconsider the removal of LCL rates and reinitiate them only when he has a chance to come up with the program which he mentioned in the reply to the Leader of the Opposition?


Jean Marchand: Mr. Speaker, I made a commitment to the ministers of transport of the Atlantic provinces, including the minister in charge of transport for Newfoundland. We want to know exactly which sector is affected because the freeze affected only 22 per cent of the commodities moved. We want to know exactly who is affected because, as the hon. member knows very well, this freeze has been a real windfall for certain groups and it did result in increased prices even though the rates were frozen. So, we do not want to apply a blanket freeze at this moment. We want to study each case and we are committed to that. The federal-provincial committee on transportation will make a study, and if anyone is really seriously affected, we will take measures to protect him.


NUMBER OF COMMODITIES ON WHICH FREIGHT RATES WILL BE INCREASED
Mr. Fred McCain (Carleton-Charlotte):: My question is for the Minister of Transport. Since the carriers have announced that this is but one step of many to increase rates on various commodities in the Atlantic area, would the minister advise the House as to how many rates on commodities will be raised in the next 12 months, and then it will be possible to answer the question regarding how bad the situation is and where. What commodities will be going up as a result of the policy of the government?


Mr. Speaker:: That information should be sought on the order paper.


REQUEST FOR ASSURANCE SALE OF OFFICE EQUIPMENT TO CUBA NOT FRUSTRATED BY FOREIGN JURISDICTION
Hon. Robert Stanbury (York-Scarborough):: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce. Can the minister now assure the House that the widely reported sale of Canadian manufactured office equipment to Cuba by the Cole Division of Litton Brothers Equipment Ltd. of Scarborough will not be frustrated by the law of any foreign jurisdiction?


Hon. Alastair Gillespie (Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce):: Mr. Speaker, the U.S. government is very much aware of our views on this individual transaction, as indeed are the directors of the American parent of this particular company. I believe that the American parent has applied to the U.S. government for the export of these particular items to Cuba. We are awaiting their reply at present.


PROPOSED INTRODUCTION OF PARTS OF BILL C-2 AND BILL C-29 TO PROTECT CANADIAN INDUSTRIES
Robert Douglas George Stanbury: May I
direct a supplementary to the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs. Will the minister consider carefully the segregation and introduction immediately of the relevant parts of Bill C-2 and Bill C-29 so as to provide the long overdue protection to Canadian industry and Canadian workers against extra territorial application of foreign law in restraint of Canadian trade? I suggest that perhaps if he is willing to do this, the House would deal with that bill expeditiously-


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


Robert Douglas George Stanbury: -and perhaps without debate. [Translation]


André Ouellet: Mr. Speaker, on hearing the applause of hon. members on both sides of the House, I feel optimistic and trust that Bill C-2 will be passed quickly in committee so that this act, long wished for, can solve many of the problems which now exist in Canada.


EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Mr. Claude Wagner (Saint-Hyacinthe):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct a question to the right hon. Prime Minister.
With reference to the statement made by the Secretary General of the United Nations concerning the possible withdrawal of UN Forces from the Near East next April, and in view of the fact that the consequences which similar action broght about in 1967 could very well repeat themselves in 1975, has the Prime Minister, the minister responsible or any other government official taken the initiative of discussions or contacts with the governments of Egypt or Syria to convince them to give peace another chance?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: Mr. Speaker, I do not understand the import of the question. As my hon. friend knows, the Secretary General was successful in securing agreement from Syria to have the mandate of the peace force renewed, and that is the position until the mandate expires.


APPARENT REFUSAL OF UNITED STATES TO RULE OUT USE OF FORCE TO PROTECT WESTERN INTEREST-GOVERNMENT POSITION
Claude Wagner: I would like to address my supplementary question then to the Secretary of State for External Affairs. In view of the refusal on the part of the Secretary of State for the United States and

January 22, 1975
Oral Questions
President Ford to rule out the use of force to protect Western interests in the face of any specific threat to the industrialized world, has the government, the minister or his colleagues, given any consideration to our national posture in the event of such an undertaking?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. gentleman has misstated in fact the words of the President and the Secretary of State. In any event, the question of the hon. gentleman is hypothetical.


FISHERIES
Mr. Walter C. Carter (St. John's West):: My question is directed to the minister responsible for fisheries. It concerns the deepsea fishermen's strike now taking place in Newfoundland. The minister announced, on I believe December 20, that a $20 million fund would be set up to help the industry over this particular period. Can the minister tell the House, Mr. Speaker, if there is any provision in the terms and conditions of that fund whereby part of that $20 million dollar amount will go into the pockets of the fishermen to help implement the Harris conciliation board report that was presented to the government some time ago?


Hon. Romeo LeBlanc (Minister of State (Fisheries)):: Mr. Speaker, the allocation of money was to help the industry over a difficult period, and helping the industry meant keeping the fishery going. Part of this money was, of course, intended to affect the price for fish paid to fishermen.


Walter C. Carter: In view of the fact that the fish processing companies refuse to accept implementation of the Harris conciliation board report, is the minister prepared to consider withholding any part of that $20 million until such time as he is satisfied that the companies concerned will accept the conciliation board report to pay the fishermen the amount recommended in that report?


Roméo LeBlanc: Mr. Speaker, I am sure the hon. member would not want me to intervene that directly in a dispute which is, of course, a provincial responsibility. I may say, however, that I deplore the fact that the fishery has been interrupted at this time because this diverts attention to this one problem while we should really be looking at midterm or long-term solutions for the very serious problems we have on the east coast. That being said, I would also add that the payments are conditional on the fishery carrying on and fishing taking place, so there is no question of allocating funds to companies whose fishermen are on strike.


SOCIAL SECURITY
Mr. Albert Bechard (Bonaventure-Jles-de-la-Madeleine):: Mr. Speaker, I want to put a question to the right hon. Prime Minister.
Since 1975 is now proclaimed International Women's Year could the government as a first positive step in 1975 put through as soon as possible and retroactive to January 1, 1975, legislation to authorize the payment of a pension to the wife equivalent to that received by her spouse when he is the only one eligible for the Old Age Security Pension and the Guaranteed Income Supplement?


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: I thank the hon. member for his very interesting suggestion, and I would discuss it with the Minister of National Health and Welfare.


EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Mr. Donald W. Munro (Esquimalt-Saanich):: Mr. Speaker, my question is addressed to the Secretary of State for External Affairs. On November 27, about two months ago, in response to a suggestion about the reference of the latest CIDA report to the Standing Committee on External Affairs and National Defence, the Secretary of State for External Affairs said that he would give this suggestion consideration at an early date. I would like to ask the Secretary of State for External Affairs whether that early date has now arrived, and whether perhaps we should now see that report referred to the committee.


Allan Joseph MacEachen: Mr. Speaker, I think that the committee on external affairs should have an opportunity to examine the spending program and the practices of CIDA, and that opportunity will be made available in the course of the session. Whether it will be through the reference of the annual report or some other method is really not the material point. The material point is that that opportunity will be made available.


TRANSPORT
Mr. Andy Hogan (Cape Breton-East Richmond):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct a question to the Minister of Transport because I am not altogether satisfied with the answers that he gave to the Leader of the Opposition on the Halifax conference. He said that the new transportation policy, which he said in Halifax was going to be related to a new deal for economic development of the Atlantic region, will not now be ready until April or May.

January 22, 1975

In view of the seriousness of the present situation, could he now give us at least the main outlines of what this proposed new transportation policy is, because we have been waiting in the Maritime provinces since 1867 for such a policy?


Jean Marchand: Mr. Speaker-


An hon. Member:: Wait till the bicentennial.


Jean Marchand: Notwithstanding the negative and infantile reaction of certain members of the opposition, we are working very hard on the transportation policy. Many people are working on this. It is very complicated. I do not think since confederation ten years have elapsed without a royal commission on transportation. This is a very complicated matter. We are working with the provinces: I met with the western minister; I met with the Ontario minister; I met with the Quebec minister; I met with the Atlantic ministers to discuss those matters. I hope that we are going to find the solution to the problem which, incidentally has not been found by any government, least of all those in opposition who at one time formed the government. There are some elements of solution, but we have no over-all policy, and this is what we have-


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh!


Some hon. Members:: Shame.


An hon. Member:: You have been here since 1963. You have had eleven years.


Jean Marchand: You have only to read the speech that I made on March 9 in the House; it is still true.


An hon. Member:: It is a mess.


Jean Marchand: Yes, of course it is. It still is, and more than you think.


An hon. Member:: Tell us more. What have you done about it?


Jean Marchand: I am very astonished that while the Conservative Party was in power they did nothing to correct this mess.


REQUEST FOR SPECIAL RATE ON STEEL BILLETS FROM NOVA SCOTIA TO QUEBEC
Andrew Hogan: supplementary directed to the Minister of Transport, again in reference to the recent increases in freight rates as they relate to certain products moving out of the Atlantic region. The head of the Nova Scotia owned Sydney steel industry has recently commented that the movement of steel billets to the Quebec market is going to be adversely affected by these freight rates. Is there any way that the minister can give special freight rates in order to protect that government-owned industry and avoid having to advance money to that industry through DREE?
Oral Questions


Jean Marchand: The
hon. member should know that the Atlantic provinces have a special deal in the field of freight rates.


An hon. Member:: It's called raw, r-a-w!


Jean Marchand: There is the Maritime Freight Rates and the Atlantic Assistance Freight Rates Act. There is also a committee, a federal-provincial committee, which has been studying these questions very successfully. We agreed on many things, and the situation is improving. The Port of Halifax right now is really more prosperous than it has ever been before. I think that the population which left the Atlantic provinces a few years ago is coming back. The population is growing, and I think that jointly we are making some very serious efforts to ensure that there is prosperity in the Atlantic provinces.


HOUSING
Mr. Gerard Laprise (Abitibi):: Mr. Speaker, I want to put a question to the Minister of State for Urban Affairs.
Can the minister say whether he accepted the offer of Arab countries of $1 billion for building housing units in Canada and, if so, can he say what are the conditions attached to it?


Barnett Jerome Danson: Mr. Speaker, it is not up to me to accept offers of money from any source on behalf of the government; that is certainly under the direction of my colleague the Minister of Finance. Representations have been made to me by a number of people. I always listen but must be guided by the greater wisdom of my colleague.


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh!


Gérard Laprise: Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question.
In view of the fact that compared with Arab countries, from the rich country it was Canada has become a poor country, will the minister demand that that loan be made free of interest?


John Napier Turner: That still remains a hypothetical question, Mr. Speaker.


LABOUR CONDITIONS
Mr. Allan Lawrence (Northumberland-Durham):: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. Can the

January 22, 1975
Oral Questions
Prime Minister tell the House whether the government has decided to have a public inquiry into the allegations made respecting violence and the hiring practices of the SIU?


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: Mr. Speaker, no decision has been announced or made on that yet.


ALLEGATIONS AGAINST SEAFARERS' INTERNATIONAL
Allan Frederick Lawrence: supplementary question. Because of the time that has elapsed, I wonder if the government has had the courtesy to reply to the Ontario Solicitor General's request made by letter in regard to this matter?


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: Yes, Mr. Speaker, there have been contacts between the two governments at the official levels.


Mr. Speaker:: A final supplementary.


Allan Frederick Lawrence: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the Prime Minister would be good enough to tell the House the nature of those replies to the Solicitor General of Ontario?


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: Mr. Speaker, I will ask the officials to report to me, and perhaps the Minister of Justice, on this matter.


HOUSING
Miss Flora MacDonald (Kingston and the Islands):: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of State for Urban Affairs. In view of the trend in the last quarter of 1974 which shows a decrease of about 30 per cent in the rate of urban housing starts compared to 1973, and of the predictions of a continuing decline in 1975, and given that the minister's only response to this crisis is a one day discussion with provincial counterparts, could the minister inform the House as to the agenda of this conference and the proposals the federal government will be making at that time?


Barnett Jerome Danson: Mr. Speaker, I share the hon. member's concern about the slowdown in housing starts in the latter part of 1974, but to suggest that the meeting of housing ministers is the only response is not quite accurate. There is legislation before the House now which I am sure the hon. member has studied with great interest. We will be discussing it both in the House and in committee. I am not yet in a position to release the agenda of the meeting with housing ministers, but naturally it is going to be directed at the groups benefitting from the implementation of those programs for which they show a considerable amount of enthusiasm, continuing interest and alertness

with respect to the housing situation with which we are all concerned.


POSSIBLE CONFERENCES WITH INTERESTED GROUPS
Flora Isabel MacDonald: supplementary question. Can the minister tell the House if further conferences are planned with groups such as those in the construction industry, developers, real estate representatives, the municipal authorities and groups who are directly involved in housing production?


Barnett Jerome Danson: Mr. Speaker, such meetings have been held. No stone is being left unturned. I have been meeting with every group including consumers, especially consumers and especially the low income consumer, as well as tenants and owners who are equally involved. These are ongoing conversations and I shall continue to have them in an effort to make certain that we at least reach, and hopefully surpass, the objective we have set to maintain the high standards we have in this country.


STATUS OF WOMEN
John George Diefenbaker: Mr. Speaker, having regard to the unanimity with which members from all parts of the House today saluted women's year, I should like to ask the Minister of Justice if he would accept the suggestion of having the lady members of the House join together in a committee with the law officers of the Crown to examine the statutes of Canada that do discriminate against women and thereby enable the House to remove those causes of discrimination?


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


Otto Emil Lang: Mr. Speaker, I think the House leader would be the one to examine any such suggestion. I think that the lady members of the House and the gentlemen members of the House are equally interested in respecting women's rights.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


INDIAN AFFAIRS
John George Diefenbaker: Mr. Speaker, it was the disinterest of the hon. gentlemen in anything but abortion that caused me to ask that question,
I therefore direct a supplementary question to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development. I refer him to the Lavelle case, an extraordinary judgment of the Supreme Court of Canada last fall in which the majority of the judges, with the chief justice dissenting, came to a
January 22, 1975

conclusion that Indian Women were not entitled to the same rights as male Indians. Will the minister have that injustice removed so that we can take one step along the road to assuring women equal rights and make a great many of the platitudes that have been uttered here as to the affection for women and need of them having equal rights, come about?


An hon. Member:: Yes or no?


J. Judd Buchanan: Mr. Speaker, an undertaking was given to all Indian people in Canada that the federal government would not unilaterally alter the Indian Act without consultation with the Indian people. They have given us preliminary proposals, amongst which is a clause providing that the discriminatory aspect be removed in the sense that neither a male or female spouse, on marrying an Indian person, would acquire Indian status, nor would any offspring. They made it clear that that was a tentative proposal and asked us to bide our time until they consulted with all the Indian people before they made a final representation.


John George Diefenbaker: Not necessarily not discrimination, but discrimination if necessary.


SYNCRUDE PROJECT-POSSIBLE INVESTIGATION OF ESCALATED COST-PUBLICATION OF FIGURES
Mr. T. C. Douglas (Nanaimo-Cowichan-The Islands):: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources regarding the Syncrude project in the Athabasca oil sands. The company having announced that the cost is now estimated at $2 billion when a few months ago they were claiming it was $1 billion, and in view of the fact that they say they must have $1 billion by the end of the month or they will wind up operations, I want to ask the minister if the government, his department or the National Energy Board have made any appropriate investigations into the cost estimate or whether they have accepted the cost estimates of the Syncrude company? If so, would these estimates be made available to the House?


Donald Stovel Macdonald: Mr. Speaker, government of Canada officials have examined the figures put forward by Syncrude itself with regard to the project. The hon. gentleman may be aware that the government of Alberta, which is also concerned in the same way that we are, has commissioned a number of outside studies covering the cost escalation of the Syncrude contract among other things. Before a government of Canada commitment would be made, we would like a full opportunity to review the results of those studies so that we could compare them with the result of our own work. At the moment, I am not in a position to give the hon. gentleman figures on either count.
Oral Questions


SYNCRUDE PROJECT-REQUEST FOR DISCLOSURE OF FACTS BEFORE COMMITMENT OF FUNDS AND ASSURANCE OF PUBLIC CONTROL
Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. In view of the minister's very proper decision that the government would want to have all the facts before making a decision, may I ask if the minister can assure the House that before any commitment is made with respect to public funds to assist this project, all facts will be placed before the House or a committee of this House so that a full and complete investigation may be made to make sure that we are not being panicked into supplying public funds to this company?


Donald Stovel Macdonald: Mr. Speaker, if the hon. gentleman is suggesting that a committee of this House would have to report before the government of Canada would go ahead and make an investment in the project, I cannot give that undertaking. If there were a decision for or against investment in the project I certainly would be pleased to have the opportunity of going into it fully in the Standing Committee on National Resources and Public Works.


Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas: final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. May I ask the minister if he could give the House the assurance that in the event of any financial contribution by the government of Canada and/or the provincial government, no such commitment would be made unless we could be assured that there would be majority public control of this project?


Donald Stovel Macdonald: Mr. Speaker, may I say to the hon. gentleman that, at the moment, we are not looking to a scale of investment which would involve majority public control. So far as the Government of Canada alone is concerned, it is looking at a minority position.


WITHDRAWAL OF SERVICES OF OIL COMPANY WORKERS IN SASKATCHEWAN-NEGOTIATIONS BETWEEN FEDERAL AND PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENTS
Hon. Alvin Hamilton (Qu'Appelle-Moose Mountain):: Mr. Speaker, my question is addressed to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources. In view of the withdrawal of services by the workers of oil servicing companies in Saskatchewan as a means of forcing meaningful negotiations between the provincial and federal governments in the taxing of resource companies, has the minister had discussions with the government of Saskatchewan since January 1?


Donald Stovel Macdonald: Mr. Speaker, I have not had such discussions, although I would have to confirm whether or not my officials have been in discussion with the province of Saskatchewan. May I say, in general terms, that there has been no indication on the part of the province of Saskatchewan, as there was by both British Columbia and Alberta, with regard to arriving at some accommodation in the fiscal regime.

January 22, 1975
Oral Questions


Francis Alvin George Hamilton: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Will the minister take the initiative and approach the government of Saskatchewan, as many of these Canadian companies operating in the service field in the province are small companies and cannot survive until April, when the first ministers' conference may arrive at a decision.


Donald Stovel Macdonald: Mr. Speaker, that is a helpful suggestion.



TRANSPORT


Mr. Elmer M. MacKay (Central Nova):: Mr. Speaker, I have a question to direct to the Prime Minister. May I ask the right hon. gentleman if the Minister of Transport was stating government policy less than a week ago in Halifax when he announced that transportation will be a weapon to achieve economic development. If so, will the right hon. gentleman, as leader of this country, give us some idea as to when we can expect details on how this positive goal will be reached, since the matter has great import for the DREE program which, as the government has pointed out in the past, is of great priority in this country.


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: Mr. Speaker, as to the substance of the question, I thank the hon. member for realizing that the minister is right in taking this stand. As to the timing of it, I can refer him to the minister's earlier answer today.



THE CANADIAN ECONOMY


Mr. Gordon Towers (Red Deer):: Mr. Speaker, may I direct my question to the Minister of Finance. In view of the great concern of many Canadians about the present state of our economy, will the minister be in a position to tell this House if we are entering a period of economic recession at this point in time?


An hon. Member:: He doesn't know.


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. The hon. member for Victoria.



NATIONAL DEFENCE


Mr. Allan B. McKinnon (Victoria):: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of National Defence. In view of the fact that on April 16, 1973 the Standing Committee on External Affairs and National Defence pre-

sented a report to the House which recommended, inter alia, a study of the long-term implications of the NORAD agreement, can the minister now advise the House when, if ever, he plans to refer this matter to the committee.


James Armstrong Richardson: Mr. Speaker, that matter will be referred to the committee. I cannot at this time announce a date, before consulting House Leaders.


Allan Bruce McKinnon: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. In view of the fact that the Prime Minister has already made a pronouncement in Washington in favour of extending the agreement, has the minister considered that having the standing committee examine the NORAD agreement would confirm the farce the Prime Minister has already made of the parliamentary committee system in this instance.



REQUEST FOR MORE DIGNIFIED TREATMENT OF SOLDIERS KILLED IN SERVICE

Mr.   Sean@: Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister of National Defence arises from the treatment accorded the remains of three Canadian soldiers killed on Christmas eve in Egypt, where they were serving in the cause of peace. The bodies of these servicemen were returned to Canada in plain wooden crates; they were not even covered with the flag of our country and not one military official was on hand to meet the regular commercial flight in Montreal. While we all hope that no future killings will take place, can the minister assure the House that Canadian servicemen who die in the service of their country are entitled to and will be accorded more dignity than was shown in these tragic circumstances.


James Armstrong Richardson: Mr. Speaker, I do not believe that the facts as presented are correct. I can state that the wishes of the dependents were fully respected. Military funerals were held and there were officers in attendance when the caskets arrived.



AIRPORTS


Hon. Martin O'Connell (Scarborough East):: Mr. Speaker, my question is addressed to the Minister of Transport. Can the minister indicate whether the government has received the report of the airport inquiry commission which is looking into the proposed new Toronto international airport. If so, when will the results of that inquiry be made known to this House.


Jean Marchand: Mr. Speaker, yes, I received the report from the commission of inquiry in Pickering.


An hon. Member:: When?
January 22, 1975


Jean Marchand: I received it. As soon as we have studied it, Mr. Speaker, I hope we will be in a position to make a statement or to table a report in the House.


Mr. Speaker:: Orders of the day.



GOVERNMENT ORDERS


John Napier Turner: that Bill C-39, to amend the Customs Tariff (No. 2), be read the second time and referred to committee of the whole.


Mr. Jack Cullen (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Finance):: Mr. Speaker, at the outset may I thank the hon. member for Edmonton West (Mr. Lambert) and the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre (Mr. Knowles) for the courtesy extended to the minister in enabling him to attend an important meeting today and for the courtesy extended to me in enabling me to introduce this bill on second reading.
The bill before us reintroduces a number of the temporary tariff reductions initially introduced in the February, 1973, budget. Those reductions formed an important part of the comprehensive program contained in that budget. Then, as now, the two-fold thrust of the budget was to provide continuing stimulus to economic growth and at the same time mitigate inflationary pressures. It is believed that these reductions can play an important part on the anti-inflationary side of our two-pronged attack on the problems facing the Canadian economy.
The tariff reductions in the February, 1973, budget covered a wide range of food and non-food products. They remained in effect for an initial period of one year and were subsequently continued for most of the products until June 30, 1974. In the May 6 budget it was proposed that they be extended to December 31, 1974. In the preparation of the November budget the minister reviewed this group of reductions and decided that a large proportion of them should be put back in place and for a longer period, until June 30, 1976, as set out in clause 3(2) of the bill. However, as he said in his budget speech, because of the longer period during which they will be in effect, compared with the shorter period suggested in May, because of the introduction on July 1 of the general preferential tariff for imports from developing countries, and because of certain changed price and supply circumstances about which the minister has received representations, we are proposing a number of exclusions from the May list of reductions.
With the slowdown in construction both in Canada and the United States, particularly the reduced number of housing starts, some products, the demand for which is related to housing starts, have been left out of the present package of tariff reductions. These include plywood, furniture, white goods, house trailers and mobile homes. A
Customs Tariff
number of other products have been left out because competition in our market has been affected by the introduction on July 1, 1974, of the general preferential tariff for imports from those developing countries which have been designated as beneficiaries of that tariff. In this group are batteries, luggage, and toys.
As hon. members are aware, general preferential tariff rates are the lower of the existing British preferential tariff rates or the most favoured nation tariff rates reduced by one-third. To prevent the tariff reductions proposed in the bill from automatically resulting in further reductions in these rates, the bill provides that the current GPT rates will not be altered by the present measure. In the food sector, a number of products such as live hogs, fresh lamb and mutton, fresh pork and other meat products have been left out of the present proposal because of the current difficult market situation for meats.
Tariff reductions on a number of products included in the February, 1973, budget had the effect of reducing or eliminating margins of preference which are bound into our trade agreement with Australia. By "margins of preference" I mean the difference between the rates which apply under the most favoured nation tariff and those which apply on imports from Australia. In the present bill it is proposed that the British preferential rate on meat extracts be reduced to free in order to preserve the margin of preference on Australian exports. Also excluded from the present measure are raisins and currants which are important Australian exports to our country. In return for the margins of tariff preference we maintain for Australia, we receive important trade preferences in that market.
A few other food products were excluded to meet specific problems encountered by Canadian producers. While every effort was made to avoid adverse effects on production and employment in Canada, sudden market reversals in other sectors of our economy could very well occur between now and June 30, 1976. For this reason, the minister is again asking parliament to give authority to the government to restore the pre-budget rates of duty on any particular product or group of products where maintenance of the reduction could result in genuine hardship.
The bill also includes a number of other provisions originally included in the May 6 budget. Undoubtedly, the most important of these, from the general public's point of view, is the substantial increase in the so-called tourist exemptions. Canadians claimed about four million exemptions in 1973, and in that year over $110 million worth of goods were allowed duty and tax free entry under these provisions. We are frequently asked why the tourist exemption is not increased to an even higher level, say to the $100 a month allowance for American tourists. The purpose of our tourist exemption is to enable Canadian travellers abroad to bring back from their holidays, free of duty and taxes, a quantity of goods and souvenirs which the average tourist might hope to purchase incidental to his trip.
With a large proportion of the Canadian population living within 100 miles of the Canada-U.S. border, and with lower retail prices in the United States due to three

January 22, 1975
Customs Tariff
measures, differences in taxation, the greater range of products available, and the effect of spill-over advertising, there would be a strong incentive to undertake shopping excursions if the Canadian exemptions for a 48-hour absence were substantially higher than is now proposed. I might say it is our estimate that our much smaller population spends about as much on shopping in the United States as American tourists spend here.
Another important item in this group is that which will provide authority for the government to allow duty free entry on bona fide handicraft products from developing countries. Because of the difficulty in defining precisely what are handicraft products, we felt that some discretion should be left to the government to ensure that our own craftsmen would not be adversely affected by too broad an interpretation of what constitutes handicraft products.


Hon. Marcel Lambert (Edmonton West):: Mr. Speaker, debate on any stage of a bill amending the Customs Tariff has about the lowest public appeal of any subject. On the other hand, the debate that will follow on continuation of the consideration of Bill C-40, which is to amend the Excise Tax Act, will bring forward many representations from my colleagues. I trust that those who received representations during the Christmas recess will put them before the parliamentary secretary or the minister tomorrow.
Unless there has been a major accord, as there was under the Kennedy round, and which may come forward some years hence when the Tokyo talks are completed and countries have come to some form of agreement with regard to further tariff modifications, we will have a considerably sized volume for the Customs Tariff. If one refers to the consolidated Statutes of Canada to find the Customs Tariff, one is faced with a bewildering array of columns of figures and items. There is descriptive language which possesses unto itself the reputation of that which has been more narrowly construed than any other language of government statute or regulation. We may consider some of these this afternoon.
The parliamentary secretary, on behalf of the minister, has indicated that the items included in this amendment to the Customs Tariff were considered in the preparation of the budget about a year ago to be conducive to fighting inflation. The government did not seem to be so aware of inflation a year ago. I do not know if these particular items, chosen for fighting inflation at this time, were stated to be for the same purpose at that time. Frankly, I do not think any of them are designed to fight inflation.
This amendment will result in a reduction of tax. Hopefully, it will reduce either the price or the pressure for a potential price increase. As far as the Canadian citizen is concerned, he will be affected mostly by increased simplification of the provisions regarding allowances for tourists returning after an absence from Canada. To that extent there has been a simplification. However, the change to $150 from $100, and to $50 from $25 is nothing more than recognition of the degree of inflation that has taken place in the past two years. Therefore, in so far as the Canadian tourist is concerned, he cannot buy abroad, quantitatively, any more today than he did five years ago. I know this from personal experience. As a matter of fact, I had this experience in the past week and saw the effect.

Within the past year or so I have had occasion to return to Canada from abroad three times. When my wife and I returned from the Far East about a year ago, we had acquired gifts for the family. We found it exceedingly difficult to buy anything and not go over the top. On a modest amount of purchases, mostly from Commonwealth countries and all from developing countries, we exceeded the limit and had to pay a fair amount of duty.
I hope this question will be kept under active review. It is part of the move between countries. The United States asked us to do this in the past and they increased the amount American citizens could bring back from abroad. That was a good move. If we are to spend many thousands of dollars to encourage tourists to come here, there must be a corresponding gesture on our part. As we know, Canadians are great travellers. They spend their money abroad, encouraging international trade in that way.
I wish to make a second point. I hope the minister will be able to answer this question at third reading. In fact, he indicated in informal discussions that he would do so. I realize these questions would be better directed to the Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce (Mr. Gillespie) since they deal with the forthcoming GATT negotiations in Tokyo. I understand that the technical staffs have been informed and there has been some difficulty. I would have thought it would have been far better for the Government of Canada to name not only departmental officials to these negotiating bodies but also some practical businessmen.
There has always been a great deal of resentment, as there was at the time of the Kennedy round, that these negotiations were, frankly, some sort of "in" club proposition among the bureaucrats of the departments of finance, industry, trade and commerce, or what have you, of the countries represented in the negotiations. So far as Canada is concerned, one could not get any idea of what was being done; they were as close mouthed as anything. I know that this is a trading game and it usually turns out to be an item-for-item exchange. In many instances, in order to gain a point you have to kill off a couple of Canadian industries or something. A number of industries were badly hurt-fine papers, chemicals, and so on-at the time of the Kennedy round, but I think a great deal more openness and frankness with industry within this country would be of benefit so far as further negotiations on sweeping tariff changes are concerned.
I think we are all generally seeking to improve international trade. We have to do something particularly with the third world countries. I do not know what the answer is. Certainly there is no simplistic answer. It is not a question of the developed countries having to close down their industries and transfer them to the developing countries. That is not going to work. For one thing, the trained personnel are not there, there is adaptability to climate and too many complications of that sort. Frankly, I have never been impressed with arguments from some developing countries that deliberate closing down of industries should take place in the developed countries so they can be transferred to the developing countries.
It seems to me that much greater efforts should be turned toward developing, with expert help, indigenous

industries in the particular countries for which they are best suited. Then we could make the necessary trade and price adjustments with respect to the commodities produced. Frankly, we have introduced a special line of tariffs, which is merely a structure that includes no barriers, regarding many goods emanating from developing countries. If we are in some way to alleviate some of the problems that have arisen as a result of the worldly imbalance of trade caused by the energy crisis last year, which imbalance is still continuing, then we must be one of the nations, I suggest to you, Mr. Speaker, in the vanguard pressing for wide, sweeping negotiations to revise trading patterns, thus restoring some balance and alleviating the problems of many countries. It is not only the third world countries that are facing difficulties; many established economies have been especially hard hit. Thus, it is nonsense to continue with the patterns that have developed.
I think it is unfortunate that we shall see a succession of OPEC-type situations which will result in, not a form of nationalism by one country but, rather, a form of product nationalism by a group of countries who will try to arrogate unto themselves a greater and greater share of the world's economy in some sort of wild scramble. We are seeing this situation developing in sugar and in coffee, and we will see it in cocoa and in bauxite. We have seen what has happened to petroleum. The list may be endless. It then becomes jungle warfare and GATT agreements are just tossed out of the window. As a matter of fact, I am wondering how far the OPEC agreements would stand up to real scrutiny under GATT, if anyone had the desire or the power to bring those countries to task in regard to their commitments under GATT.
Are other countries thinking of getting together to form a world cartel in particular commodities, or is GATT going to be something like the International Monetary Fund under which you solemnly engage to abide by an agreement? As far as such agreements are concerned, I recall two or three different occasions on which Canada opted unilaterally for a floating exchange rate while everybody else was on a fixed exchange rate. We gained all the advantages. But what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Unless some sanity is restored to international trade and some of these zonal or product cartels are suppressed, I foresee the world being in for a great deal of trouble.
I should like to have a report from the minister as to the general proposals Canada is going to adopt in the Tokyo negotiations, and whether there will be an enlargement of the cadre of the negotiators and teams who will be working at the conferences. Would the minister also outline the objectives Canada has in participating in these further rounds? How long does the minister expect them to last? I realize the minister will give what may be an uninformed guess, but at least it will give us the government's thinking on this point.
There is one item I want to raise in the absence of my colleague from Vegreville (Mr. Mazankowski) who has asked me to raise the point with the minister. The only time I can do it is on second reading, and since the item is absent from the bill I can only make representations at this time. It is a rather esoteric subject and one that would hardly be expected to loom large economically. Frankly, it
Customs Tariff
has to do with air conditioners in combine cabs. Yes, Mr. Speaker, they do exist. I dare say that in this day and age it is no longer necessary to have to work long hours, in extreme discomfort, in a combine in late July or August on the prairies where temperatures can get very high.
I might point out that tractor cab air conditioners are admitted under tariff item 40938-1. Air conditioner units are brought in from the United States, which is the sole economic source of supply, under, as I say, tariff item 40938-1, and there follows in brackets, "accessories not otherwise provided for". However, large-sized, self-propelled combines are similarly equipped with cabs and air conditioners. The air conditioners are subject to 15 per cent most favoured nation duty and 12 per cent excise tax. It appears that item 40916-1, which deals with thrashers and combines, does not provide for inclusion of excise as does item 40938-1. Recourse must then be taken under item 42700-1, which is the item in respect of machines generally not otherwise provided for. There is a right of application for remission of the duty, but if the importation is by an individual farmer there is little or no relief.
I have written to the minister, on behalf of my colleague and other members who have drawn this matter to my attention, asking why there should be this distinction in that air conditioners for tractor cabs are free of customs duty and sales tax whereas air conditioners for combines are not. This is a rather silly distinction. Surely the minister's officials to whom I have spoken about this matter are prepared to look into it to see if the situation can be corrected and the two items put on the same footing. Hopefully, this will not be accomplished by making them both subject to the 15 per cent imposition but, rather, they will be admitted free of duty.
I know that some of my colleagues have other points to raise in respect of this bill. This is a rather scattergun approach because we can go through items including bananas, melons, fish, herring, clams, sugar products, dehydrated citrus fruits, and many others. There may be particular points to be raised by some of my colleagues in respect of educational materials. I have been given to understand that there are some distinctions here which are not clear. These matters are of importance.
In any event, I hope that after discussion of this bill we can complete second reading and go into committee. With the hope that the parliamentary secretary will note the undertaking by the minister in respect of third reading, third reading can be postponed until tomorrow in order that we can get answers from the minister at that time. I do not foresee any great difficulty in the passage of this bill, but I think we should have this information on the record.


Mr. Max Saltsman (Waterloo-Cambridge):: Mr. Speaker, Customs Tariff ways and means bills are always interesting to look at, although I suspect there is generally not much interest in them from the public's point of view. In many ways they are outlines of changes in the government's policy and attitude. Customs Tariffs have been used since the beginning of Canadian history in this regard. Another feature of this bill is that it is loaded with all kinds of anomalies, as has been the case with bills of

January 22, 1975
Customs Tariff
this kind going back to confederation. One wonders why many items have continued to be subject to Customs Tariff for as long as they have. I have in mind two items that come in under the most favoured nation and Commonwealth preference. It may be that at some time in the 1800s someone in Canada was manufacturing cricket bats and the government decided to provide some protection, so cricket bats were made subject to tariff. This is now being changed and cricket bats will not be subject to any tariff provided they are brought in from a Commonwealth country.
Another item I have always been curious about is bananas. Why in the world we should have a tariff on bananas coming into Canada when, in fact, except under most extraordinary circumstances, we have no way of growing them here, is something that has escaped me. In attempting to get an answer to this question I asked the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Whelan) why we continued to have a tariff on bananas. He replied that there is competition in respect of different kinds of foods, and if people eat bananas they will not eat tomatoes-and we grow tomatoes here. In any event, I am glad to see that the tariff is coming off bananas.
In the past, Customs Tariffs have been used as instruments of combines policy. The royal commission report in the 1950s suggested that companies which colluded with each other in forming a combine against the public interest should be penalized by having their tariff protection removed. Since then two major cases have occurred, one in respect of the glass industry and the other in respect of the fine papers industry. In neither of those cases was the tariff removed. The companies were permitted to continue in operation, having been found guilty of collusion.
The interesting thing about this bill is that it represents a definite change in government attitude. Apparently the government is no longer worrying so much about industry but is more concerned with protecting the consumer. It is fairly obvious that the proposed changes are designed to lower prices to the consumer. This is in contrast to previous Customs Tariff bills. Certainly, in many ways it is a departure from government policy. To a very large extent, the government has in the past taken the position that it would not change tariffs because it wished to use them as negotiating tools in order to obtain concessions from other countries. By this bill it would seem the government has dropped this negotiating tool approach in favour of attempting to assist consumers. Even in this regard we find inconsistencies which illustrate the conflict which exists in government policy.
As an example, let us consider the situation regarding mobile homes. On the one hand we find that the mobile home industry in Canada is being protected by tariff provisions. When the government proposed the removal of excise tax on building materials, the proposal did not apply to mobile homes. This results in the fact that mobile homes are protected on the one hand and disadvantaged on the other, with the result that from two directions those who have a preference for mobile homes are penalized by having to pay higher prices than would normally be the case. Mobile homes represent an important aspect of housing in Canada, and as such are deserving of consideration. This situation will have to be straightened out

by the government. The industry is penalized on the one hand and rewarded on the other.
I suspect there is not a great deal of opposition to this bill. It does indicate the direction of government policy. Specifically, it indicates the government's concern regarding certain agricultural products-beef, for example. The government intended to remove some of the tariffs on processed beef. That intention was dropped because of the situation in Canada. There is still a substantial tariff in respect of sugar in spite of the fact that the sugar beet industry in Canada is not producing the volumes it once did when protection was required. It seems to me, the price of sugar being what it is, that the government might have removed the tariff on this commodity. I do not anticipate any difficulty in agreeing to the provisions of this bill.


Mr. Roch La Salle (Joliette):: Mr. Speaker, I will take a few minutes only to raise a question closely connected with Bill C-39, an Act to amend the Customs Tariff.
Recently the Cigar Tobacco Producers Association- representing producers not only from my constituency but producers across the country-asked me, through their secretary, to inquire whether the government intends to reduce duties on imported cigar tobacco.
Mr. Speaker, it will be immediately understood that Canadian producers of cigar tobacco are interested in maintaining adequate prices. If the government intends to reduce duties, clearly cigar manufacturers would welcome the opportunity to play competition with imported tobacco. I therefore contacted the department directly, only to learn that a study was underway on the subject. This caused a big disappointment to the Cigar Tobacco Producers Association, because the department implied that the cooperatives concerned had been informed of the proposition and that since they had made no representations or expressed any views, it was felt that these cooperatives would not oppose a reduction of custom duties on imported tobacco. Thanks to that association, a telegram was first quickly sent to the appropriate department to inform them that the cooperatives or producers concerned had not been informed of any such suggestion or recommendation as made by the cigar company.
I therefore think it is my duty to talk about those matters, since quite a few people in my constituency are concerned with that problem, and I think it is in the interest of every Canadian cigar tobacco producer to request from the minister a flat denial to that company which seeks lower tariffs on imported tobacco.
Still in the interest of Canadian producers and for their own protection and also in view of all the hard times our agriculture is going through, I don't think this is a very good time to put that category of producers in a difficult position.
I would therefore take advantage of this opportunity to increase the minister's awareness of that problem and ask him, on behalf of those producers, to say no to that cigar manufacturing company which would be extremely interested in lower customs tariffs.
January 22, 1975

Mr. Speaker, I hope these few remarks will prompt the minister to analyse thoroughly the extent of whatever step might be taken, considering in the first place the interest of Canadian producers. I dare hope the company which is requesting that reduction from the government will not win its case and the producers who need that protection for their culture in the future will get a favourable answer from the minister. As opposed to a cigar manufacturing company, the producers association requests that this tariff be increased by $0.20 to $0.30 a pound of cigar tobacco.
Mr. Speaker, I hope the officials of the department will give every required consideration to the recommendation of the producers association which was duly and properly put forward to them. I also hope the minister will give to the association an answer that will best serve the interests of cigar tobacco producers, and hopefully allow for growth in their operations.
Mr. Speaker, I will conclude these brief remarks with the hope that the Cigar Tobacco Producers Association will receive from the minister an answer that best serves their interests.


Mr. Howard Johnston (Okanagan-Kootenay):: Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak on three different points involving the collection of customs at our borders. I agree with the points raised by the hon. member for Edmonton West (Mr. Lambert) who opened this debate, with one exception. There is rather keen public interest, I find, in the whole business of customs because there are a great many Canadians who pass back through our borders or who receive materials coming into Canada from outside.
During the short time that I have been back here, three specific points have been brought to my attention or have occurred to me, and I would like to raise them at this time. One is the question of duty on imported goods coming into western Canada, British Columbia specifically, from the United States and the fact that duty is applied although the goods in question are not manufactured in Canada and are not obtainable here. If the duty is to protect Canadian industry, that is one thing; but if there is no comparable Canadian industry, that is another matter.
The duty on goods that is designed specifically to protect Canadian manufacturers is suspect in western Canada where there is a long-standing feeling that many of the regulations regarding duties and imports were designed to protect central Canada at the expense of western Canada. So there is an exasperation even in connection with duty where it can be shown that the product is manufactured in Canada. If it cannot be shown that that is so, and attempts are made to find such a product in Canada but it is not possible to purchase it here and it is not necessary to protect a manufacturing process in Canada, and if then it is bought and paid for in the United States and on top of that a duty is charged, this certainly adds salt to the wound. It is one of the questions that I would like to raise. It was first raised with me during a recent visit to my constituency.
Another matter also came up and it is one that I find rather strange; that is, the duty charged on a specific class of gifts that enter the country. The specific category is
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wedding gifts. Ours is not the only society in which it is more than customary to send wedding gifts; it is obligatory to send them. I think that is so, particularly if the couple involved are children or grandchildren of someone who lives far away on another continent. The happiness of the occasion is all too frequently marred by the arrival of unsolicited gifts that are perhaps even unexpected. But unexpected or not, the gifts arrive, necessitating a trip to the nearest Customs station-and that can be a trip of some miles in the interior of British Columbia-in order to pick up the gifts, only to find that the duty is so great that it amounts almost to buying the gifts.
With another kind of gift I suspect there would be a temptation to return them as having been unsolicited, and thus avoid the charge, but a wedding gift cannot be returned without causing a great deal of pain and anguish to the loving grandparents or the solicitous relatives who sent it. So there is really no alternative for the people in question except to pay the duty and to accept the gift and, hopefully, to say nothing about the duty when they thank the relative for sending the gift. Weddings, of course, are kept track of in this country: we have the Dominion Bureau of Statistics which insists on knowing when anyone is married in Canada. Also, licences are obtained and registers are signed. There is a very complex and complicated ritual to go through to prove that a wedding has taken place. So it seems to me that it would be a very simple matter for the Customs officials to ascertain that a wedding had taken place, and also I suspect it would be possible to set a limit at the upper end in order to avoid any unwise practices in the sending of very large and expensive gifts.
However, these are not really what I am talking about; I am talking about the kind of gift that is sent out of a warm heart or a love for absent children or grandchildren, which in turn may to them constitute an unexpected and, I feel, an unnecessary expense. It seems to me that any gift coming into the country, freely sent, of course adds to the country; nothing is lost. I do not feel the amount of revenue involved here would be very large, but the embarrassment, the pain and the surprise of finding that a gift sent on such an occasion is dutiable is something the government should seriously consider as unnecessary, and it should alter the Customs Tariff to take that particular, very limited and, as I say, very definable and traceable category of gifts off the list of dutiable items.
There is another area which I should like to discuss. It was mentioned in the parliamentary secretary's remarks. I refer to the decision to change the allowable value of items brought back into the country by a traveller who has been abroad for some time, and to raise it from $100 to $150. Here, again, there are all kinds of complexities involved in this decision. Why was the allowance raised at all? If there is sufficient justification to raise it, why only by $50? If it is going to be meaningful in today's world of rapid inflation, then surely it should have been raised to something like $500 rather than simply by $50. That will not help anything. If the situation needs some help, why not extend it to something genuine, such as to $300 or $500, a figure that would make sense-if it is going to be moved at all? If it is not just something to provide work for Customs

January 22, 1975
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officials, who I find are pretty harried anyway and do not really need the extra work, then it should be raised substantially.
Of course, we have just been through an election campaign in which this country was told over and over again by members on the government side that inflation was worldwide and it was quite beyond the control of Canada to do anything about it. If the situation was truly so rampant and so outside our control, then it seems to me that this is one of the adjustments that should be taken into consideration in view of some of the remarks that were made during the election campaign. As I say, $50 is certainly no indication of the sort of situation that we were told over and over again was worldwide and which effectively prevented this government from taking any measures within the country to tackle what is certainly the most serious problem facing this nation, and probably the most serious it has ever faced.
There is another aspect of this matter which bothers me personally. I have travelled a fair amount and have come through Customs a good many times; I came through when the allowance was $100, and once during the period when it was increased to $200. If inflation is a problem within Canada, then I suppose when people travel outside this country and spend their money in other countries they are adding to the other country's inflation and not to our own. Perhaps we should encourage people to buy more when they are abroad because they will be hotting up the inflation in Europe, Japan or South America-wherever they are-and they will not be putting the same pressure on inflation in this country for the consumer goods they are purchasing outside. Maybe that is why it is proposed to raise the allowance from $100 to $150, although if that is the reason I think the increase is inadequate.
Quite apart from that, when I come back I read the little slip the Customs people give me-my wife and I always read these-and we fill out the two forms. The slip says "Declare everything", and so we do. We itemize our purchases and put everything down. I will never forget the irritation of the Customs official as I came back into the country and declared $114.90 as the value of the goods I was bringing with me. I had a very strong suspicion that he would have been delighted if I had changed my arithmetic at the last minute and declared $99.98, so that I could then have been whipped through the line with no trouble. But having done what I was told to do by the little card, I was given a variety of forms to be filled out and a variety of wickets to go to, and eventually there was a small cheque to write. I wonder, when the amount is raised so slightly, if it will not mean there will be some encouragement for people to declare $149.99 as the true value of the goods they are carrying with them.
So it seems to me that if there is to be a change at all- and I think there are several rather compelling reasons to make changes-it might as well be to a figure that would be more meaningful in today's inflationary world, rather than moving it from $100 to $150. That will be hardly worth the cost, plus the inflationary cost, of reprinting all the forms that will be necessary for the change. I am sure it will take a long time to collect from the extra $50 the revenue that will be needed just to pay for the changes in the forms.
As the bill is debated, I hope that the minister and the government will consider some amendments. I should like to see one in reference to wedding gifts that would remove what is, I think, in some ways an insulting and painful imposition on Canadians who receive gifts from relatives abroad such as parents and grandparents. Then there is the provision for a person bringing in goods from abroad valued at not more than $100. At least $100 is a good round figure, as would be $300 or $200, but to change it to $150 strikes me as an exercise in futility.


Mr. Gordon Ritchie (Dauphin):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to say a few words on this bill, which I do not think is a very controversial one. I agree with the hon. member for Waterloo-Cambridge (Mr. Saltsman) that in the perennial argument on high tariffs and low tariffs, consumers are now being looked at somewhat more than they have in the past. Looking at conditions in the world and the apparent recession in the United States, which may be deepening, we may witness an increased desire on the part of other countries to ship manufactured goods and textiles to our market in an effort to earn foreign exchange and thus our own industries may exert pressure to be protected from low-cost imports in the next year or so. I hope this will be resisted within reason, although I concede it is difficult to find a solution when an industry in a particular area is being hammered by imports.
The government's policy of seeking greater trade with the European Common Market may be desirable, but we seem to be getting into trade hassles with the United States, our largest customer. This is something we have to consider, Mr. Speaker. We have had an example in the beef industry, where the effect of the application of quotas by both sides, and the DES ban, was probably greater than that of tariffs. I think the situation could have been avoided if both governments had used more good sense. The Canadian beef quota was imposed without much consultation with the industry or interested groups, but I think the American quota was imposed after they held hearings. I do not know if things would have been different if this country had held hearings first. The whole thing was handled poorly by both sides.
I should like to turn now to a specific problem, that of defining farm machinery for the purpose of the Customs Tariff. It seems to be the general understanding that this involves cases where farmers go across to the United States to buy a machine and bring it back here, expecting that it will be free of duty, only to find that duty is charged at the border. The problem arises when Customs officials decide that although the machine may be used on a farm, it may also be used somewhere else and is therefore liable for duty. In such cases the process of appeal is complicated and involved.
I know of one case where a man imported a machine on April 23, 1974, was charged duty, won his appeal, but is still waiting for the refund. Apparently the machine was designated as a multi-purpose dump wagon. Because of the word "wagon" it was defined not as a farm machine but as a general purpose machine by Customs officials, so he was charged duty, which he paid. The farmer appealed and the Customs official's decision was confirmed. The farmer

January 22, 1975

appealed to higher authority, and it was ruled that the dump wagon could in fact only be used as a farm machine, so he was entitled to a refund of the duty paid in May, 1974. He is still waiting for the refund.
I know this is a perennial question that members from the west have raised time and again. The procedures should be easier and quicker, and the final decision should not take so long. If a ruling is made in favour of the applicant, surely he should receive his refund reasonably quickly and the case closed.


Mr. Deputy Speaker:: Order, please. Is the House ready for the question? The hon. member for York-Simcoe (Mr. Stevens).


Sinclair McKnight Stevens: Mr. Speaker, before proceeding further with this bill, I believe it would be wise to draw to the attention of members of the House an item appearing in schedule 1. I do so because I believe that when we get into committee of the whole members will pay particular attention to this item, and I hope the hon. parliamentary secretary will have an explanation for us. I refer to tariff item 87500-1. As I read the item, it would appear that it is contemplated that handicraft goods designated by order of the governor in council, etc., may be exempted from, in most instances, all tariff under such regulations as the minister may prescribe. This appears to be a significant change from the customary way of handling Customs items as parliament, essentially, determines Customs and tariff levels. The cabinet has not been given power to designate items which shall enter duty free; at least, it has not been given the sort of power which is suggested in connection with the item to which I just referred.
As we know, this measure is to expire on June 30, 1976. Nevertheless, it constitutes a precedent which needs to be explained. While the term of the measure is relatively short, this precedent should not be set without adequate explanation. Parliament has the right and duty to legislate in the matter of Customs Tariffs, and in no way will it delegate that responsibility to the cabinet. The item in question is defined nebulously. I doubt whether you can designate handicrafts merely by an order of the governor in council, or say that the definition will be based on certain information which shall be received from various countries. The interpretation of what constitutes handicrafts may be extremely wide and may be subject to misuse later. Handicrafts have not been well defined and I should like to see the parliamentary secretary consider a tighter definition of the term. Unless the parliamentary secretary can show good cause for the inclusion of this item, I think the House ought to challenge it.


Mr. Deputy Speaker:: Is the House ready for the question? I have no way of forcing the parliamentary secretary to make use of his right of reply.


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: Mr. Speaker, I was under the impression that an hon. member who had stood up wanted to speak. The matter which the hon. member for Edmonton West (Mr. Lambert) raised in connection with trade negotiations and
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the United States is one, basically, that should be considered by the Department of Industry, Trade and Commerce. The minister has indicated that he will speak on these matters on third reading.


Mr. Deputy Speaker:: The parliamentary secretary suggested that another hon. member had risen to speak. If the parliamentary secretary speaks now, he will close the debate. If another hon. member wishes to participate before the debate is closed, he ought to do so now, otherwise, the Chair recognizes the parliamentary secretary who will close this stage of the debate.


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: Mr. Speaker, I was under the impression that an hon. member was rising to speak. After the bill has been read the second time, we can discuss it clause by clause in committee of the whole. The minister will speak on third reading and will tell us, so far as he is able to, about the negotiations which are going on or are being contemplated in the area to which I previously referred. I noted the representations which the hon. member for Edmonton West made on behalf of the hon. member for Vegreville (Mr. Mazankowski). He referred to tariff item 40916-1 and spoke of the difficulty in making application for remission. I have taken note of his representations and will bring them to the minister's attention.
The questions raised by the hon. member who spoke on behalf of the NDP were almost rhetorical. He asked a question and, in indicating procedures to be followed, suggested answers. I note with interest that the hon. member for Joliette (Mr. La Salle) is not here at the moment, although I make nothing of that. The representations in question have been made; the co-ops sent telegrams. I will discuss that matter with the minister. According to my information, they had been made aware of the matter referred to. This will be checked into.
An hon. member raised the question of the import duty on goods not manufactured in Canada. He was not specific. If he can make specific reference to any particular case, perhaps I could bring it to the minister's attention. We could then look at the sorts of goods he has in mind. In all probability the kind of thing he is suggesting would need to be dealt with in the budget and considered by the House.
The hon. member who spoke about wedding gifts was concerned about a loophole in the law. I think the hon. member's arguments have merit, as I do not think great advantage can be taken of this provision. In this country one must do certain things before one can marry; therefore, the matter the hon. member has in mind can be looked into fairly easily.
Next I come to the matter of increasing to $150 the amount of goods which may be brought in, under certain conditions, duty free. As I said in my opening remarks, about four million items come into Canada under the $100 limit, and they represent about $110 million worth of goods. Raising the limit by $50 is a matter of judgment. I suppose one could push the limit up to $300, or even to $500 as the hon. member suggests, although the higher limit could damage, not help, those whom we want to help. I, too, have travelled abroad, as has the hon. member for Edmonton West. However, unlike him I did not have the money to bring back $150 worth of goods.

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One of the last members who spoke suggested that this bill will be of benefit to consumers also. As more and more industries feel the pressure, they will want various tariff items to be re-imposed. This bill approaches these questions democratically. Under it, representations may be made, hearings held and consideration given to those representations. That is good. However, the consumer will not benefit if Canadian enterprises are driven out of business by competition from abroad. So there will be a dubious advantage if, because of reduced tariffs, cheaper goods come in from abroad. Such cheaper goods could drive Canadian manufacturing enterprises out of business and in the end we might have to pay more for those goods if they are obtainable only from outside the country. So this is a matter which must be considered.
The Department of National Revenue, which will have responsibility for administering this bill, will also be involved in its interpretation. Some of the points the hon. member referred to should be made to the Minister of National Revenue. The hon. member for York-Simcoe (Mr. Stevens) questioned certain procedures under the bill. In my opening remarks I pointed out why certain procedures are being followed in the present instance. The number of handicrafts involved is not significant, and in any event it may be hard to define precisely what are handicrafts. We do not want to do this in such a way that we end up by bringing in more handicrafts to the detriment of Canadian enterprises. Of course, as I indicated in my opening remarks, the minister must be left with some discretion in order to ensure that our own craftsmen are not adversely affected by too broad an interpretation of "handicrafts." The present provision will decrease rather than increase the level of handicraft imports.


Mr. Deputy Speaker:: Is the House ready for the question?


Some hon. Members:: Question.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to, bill read the second time and the House went into committee thereon, Mr. Laniel in the chair.
On clause 1-Schedule A amended
Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert: Mr. Chairman, there are a number of items on which we would like more information as to why they were included. I refer hon. members to page 4 of schedule 1. These are items which replace those stricken off by the effect of clause 1. We recognize many of these items as having been introduced in the May budget, but what is the motivation to make them free? Why should they be brought in free? I am looking at item 20612-1, bovine intranasal vaccines. We are not trying to be funny by referring to some of these items. They look rather complicated. The question is, in what volume do they move, and why is there any particular insistence on changing their category?
The next item to which I would refer is 42712-1, amusement riding devices of the kinds used at exhibitions or fairs, ancillary equipment imported therewith; parts of the foregoing. Why should these be entirely free, unless there is some question of their being part of a travelling circus

or amusement fair such as the royal American shows which have two strings travelling throughout western Canada. One visits the Calgary Stampede and the Edmonton exhibition, or Klondike Days, and the other goes to Saskatoon, Regina and perhaps Winnipeg. Perhaps that is the case here; I do not know.
There is an extension of that. I know I am getting rather quizzical looks about this, but I heard about two years ago that 44043-1 would be closed off and some terminal date put on it, rather than yearly extensions. These are aircraft and aircraft engines, ancillary item 44047-1. Every year, in every budget, the terminal date is changed. I now go to item 69615-1. Some of my colleagues might be interested in this. It is primarily moving picture films, sound recordings, video tape recordings, wall charts, maps and posters of an educational, scientific or cultural character. There is a change from the original definition. I would like the parliamentary secretary to advise if there is an expansion as a result of the introduction of subparagraph (a) for this particular item. Is there greater precision as to the nature of this material? I know we have had problems with this in the past. The parliamentary secretary will get my list of these at the end.


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: I was going to say it is.


Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert: The next item, 69645-1, represents sound recordings in single copies which are sent merely to reviewers. This has caused problems in the past. It is a move in the right direction. On second reading I spoke about the changes in items 70310-1, 70311-1, 70312-1 and 70313-1 with regard to tourists. However, I want to deal with item 87500-1 which was referred to by the hon. member for Simcoe. He, quite rightly, indicated that the designation of goods under this item is usually by order in council and may be varied by order in council, which is a departure from the normal Customs Tariff procedure. I have never seen anything like this in the whole of the Customs Tariff. I thought I detected among some of the officials a bit of disagreement with my colleague on that point. I want to know precisely what we are moving into with this type of operation.
The hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre was good enough, in informal discussion, to remind me of this; but I recall in 1962, at the time of a financial crisis, the then government moved to shift certain goods from one item to a higher category, working together with the forgiveness clause in the Financial Administration Act. There was great legal controversy about that. The government was actually moving commodities from one item to another within the tariff, and that is not authorized. In 18 years experience with budgets, it has always been my impression-certainly I have always been told this by officials of the Department of National Revenue and by Customs officials of the Department of Finance-that in order to add a particular item, and the air conditioners which I spoke about is precisely one such item, it has to be done as the result of a formal change in the Customs Tariff.
A formal change in the Customs Tariff can only come about through a finance bill following the presentation of a budget or a ways and means motion. In other words, it is
January 22, 1975

then formally out in the open. But this language clearly indicates that we are giving to the administration a completely free hand-I do not care what the motivation is; the motivation may be fine-to widen as much as possible the entry into Canada of handicraft goods from countries entitled to the benefits of the preferential tariff. We know that these countries are developing countries, but why is the House in this instance being asked to give the governor in council the power by order to add or subtract the number or types of these goods? Unless I am wrong, this does not appear in any other item in the Customs Tariff. I think it would be a dangerous precedent to ask the House on this occasion to grant authority to the governor in council to change the Customs Tariff, not by setting quotas, as is already provided for, or as to how goods are to be brought in under regulation, but as to what goods and from what country shall be allowed in free.
If this were done, we would again be confronted with very innocent looking wording in an item asking for the same power in relation to another category of goods. Therefore, the House's authority over the Customs Tariff would be further eroded. It does not matter whether we have in existence a committee on statutory instruments to review these matters; this committee cannot touch an order in council or a statutory instrument as to its merit. It may see that it is legal, that it is within the power of the governor in council to make the order, and so forth, but that is all.
I say to members of this House, as we have in the past, that the authority of this chamber is being eroded more and more. Every time we pass legislation making general provisions regarding orders in council, we are just wrapping the rope around our ankles one more turn. It all sounds very nice and complacent, and government members are prepared to accept it because their master shall tell them to do so. But I already know that some of them are feeling restive at the fact that these innocuous phrases are used with devastating effect on later occasions, and that the practice is continuing. It is a matter of administrative convenience, but I must say that one can pay a very high price for so-called administrative convenience and efficiency.
So, Madam Chairman, I hope we will get from the parliamentary secretary a satisfactory explanation of this item. If he feels that he is not in a position to do so, then we should stand this clause and await the return of the minister tomorrow, who, of course, has the power to make decisions, to amend or to give undertakings. As far as I am concerned, I am not prepared to accept the passage of this particular item in schedule I as it appears and as I have understood it.


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: Madam Chairman, the first item raised by the hon. member was item 20612-1. My information is that this is a new item which will provide duty free entry for bovine intranasal vaccines used to treat respiratory diseases in cattle. Similar bovine vaccines which are administered by injection are free of duty. The intranasal vaccines are administered by means of a spray, for the information of hon. members opposite. I understand these vaccines are made in Canada only by Connaught Laboratories Limited of Willowdale, Ontario, and they do not object to the duty free entry being provided in this area. Like others, I
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wondered how these were administered, and I understand that it is by means of a spray.
With regard to item 42712-1 having to do with amusement rides, again this is a new item providing for free entry for amusement riding devices of a kind used at exhibitions. The item also covers related equipment imported with the rides. The duties on most amusement rides are remitted under the machinery program since they are not available from Canadian manufacturers. Rides not dealt with under the machinery program are dutiable at various rates, depending on the nature of each ride.
With regard to the import aspect, detailed figures are not available but the total is estimated at between $1 million and $2 million annually, and about one-third of these will be dealt with under the machinery program. Most of the duty on the equipment imported by foreign midways servicing Canadian fairs is remitted under the amusement riding devices remission order. Examples of rides covered by this new item are merry-go-rounds, ferris wheels, boat rides, car and train rides, and most roller coasters. Coin operated amusement devices and playground equipment are not covered by the item.


Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert: Could I interject a question here? Would this item in any way assist Canadian operations in the setting up of exhibition packages of the kind you see at the Central Canadian Exhibition here, so we would not have to rely upon big American operations like the royal American shows? Canadian operators would, of course, have a much more limited use of these items.
I would also ask whether there is an expansion of what one might call stationary amusement grounds. In some cities you have municipally-operated playgrounds and parks which more and more are using amusement rides, and I am wondering whether these operators would be assisted. Of course, the fact that they come in duty free means that they will never be manufactured in Canada.


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: The hon. member is correct. The main reason for this item is to facilitate Canadian operators. Just what impact it may or may not have is a question of judgment or conjecture, but most assuredly it has been done to facilitate Canadian operators at municipal or private exhibitions.


The Assistant Deputy Chairman:: The hon. member for Dauphin.


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: Madam Chairman, might I just finish dealing with the matters raised by the hon. member for Edmonton West? With regard to item 44043-1 and item 44047-1, the hon. member asked why we were retaining these items. We are doing so on a temporary basis in order to facilitate possible future negotiations. We felt that this protection had to be given. I also have a comment to make on tariff item 69615-1. Rather than trying to summarize it, I think possibly I should read it into the record and then it will be before hon. members. This item was established to carry out Canada's obligation assumed under UNESCO agreement for facilitating the international circulation of visual and auditory materials of an educational, scientific
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and cultural character, more generally known as the Beirut convention.
Under the item as it is now drafted, the Department of National Revenue, Customs and Excise, has no choice but to accept entry under the item of any of the audio-visual goods specified in the item if they have been certified in accordance with the convention to be of educational, scientific or cultural character. The convention provides that the final authority to decide whether any imported product should be accorded the duty free entry privilege contemplated by the convention rests with-and this is in quotation marks because it comes from the convention- "an appropriate governmental agency" of the importing country.
The proposed amendment is designed to permit the Department of National Revenue to exercise that authority. It has become necessary to give this authority to Canadian Customs because some of the certifying agencies of other state parties to the convention have become somewhat lax about issuing certifications. Postcards picturing Canadian scenery, cities, monuments, etc., printed abroad and imported for resale to the tourist trade have been certified. This gives you some indication of the laxity or tendency to laxity, and that is the reason for this particular section. I understand a movie picture film showing car salesmen how to sell a particular make of automobile has been certified. These are products which were clearly not contemplated by the convention. However, because they have been certified by a designated agency in the country of production, they must be allowed duty free under this item at the present time. Producers of competitive goods within Canada are at a double disdvan-tage since goods allowed duty free entry under item 69615-1 are also exempt from federal sales tax, while the Canadian-made product is not exempt.


Mr. Kempling:: Madam Chairman, I have a question for the parliamentary secretary on this item. I understand what the parliamentary secretary is trying to get at in this regard, but I had a particular example of this on an advertisement that came into my business office, not my office in parliament. This advertisement dealt with a rather delicate subject. In other quarters we might call it a girlie film. At any rate, it dealt with tape cassettes showing nude women in various poses and positions. This material was also available in the form of slide films. On the top of the advertisement there was a typewritten piece of paper which read, "This has been approved by Canadian Customs as educational material". This rather shocked me, as I am not in the educational business but, rather, in the machinery business. Clearly, this material was being advertised for companies to show at business conventions, and so forth.
I first wrote to the Postmaster General as this material came to me through the mail. Much to my surprise, I received a reply from one of the Postmaster General's executive assistants, who happens to be a woman, saying that she was shocked as well but this material had been ruled educational by the Customs people. I am wondering just how far this sort of thing goes.

I am not a "square", by any stretch of the imagination, but I must say it was very embarrassing to have this sort of thing come into my office and circulate among the young people there. I can see this going into a psychiatrist's or gynecologist's office or something like that, but certainly not into the average business office. I am wondering whether the parliamentary secretary could tell us if these films are submitted to Customs and Excise people, and whether in fact they have ruled that they are educational. Also, are the people mailing this sort of material into Canada legally allowed to state in the advertising that the material is admissible as educational material by Customs?


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: Madam Chairman, the hon. member is not a "square", because he obviously viewed the film before he criticized it.


William James Kempling: I just read the advertisement; I did not see the film.


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: That is fine. You have done your duty as a good citizen, and I compliment you for that. It is specifically for this reason that this section is put in here. This was not approved by the Customs for educational purposes, but was approved by the country of origin using the rules under the convention to indicate it was for that purpose. That is an indication of the laxity to which I have referred. Canadian Customs, under the convention, would have no alternative if the sending country had approved it. They would simply be admitting what the sending country obviously felt was educational. Perhaps the film was educational, if the hon. member did not see it, and perhaps there is something we could learn together from it.


William James Kempling: I gather, from the way this rule is applied, that we would be allowed to send the same type of material into the United States, specifically California- from where this advertisement came-if we classified it as educational material.


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: Yes. Specifically, that is where the decision would be made in this country. If that particular film were to be moved from our country to another country under the convention, we would not be so lax as to give that kind of approval. At least, that would be my judgment.


Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert: The important thing in this situation is that power should be given to Department of National Revenue officials to make their own designation as to whether it is for educational purposes and to countermand, shall we say, the lax operations of the country of origin. Otherwise, quite frankly, there would be no benefit. It is bad enough to import somebody else's smut, but to balance it we should not have to export smut or pornography, or whatever you want to call it. We should not, in turn, send such material back as educational material. It might educate some people, but not exactly in the way we might want.


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: That is specifically why we have this section. From our point of view such smut or material is unacceptable as educational material and we would find an appropriate term whereby it would not be permitted as
January 22, 1975

an export to some other country. The next item raised by the hon. member has to do with a whole series of items dealing with what has been called, I suppose for want of a better name, the tourist exemption. These are the items which allow Canadian residents returning from trips abroad to import goods without payment of duties and taxes, or to pay such duties and taxes if they do not meet the conditions for exemption at a single, combined rate.
The changes being proposed are as follows: the quarterly exemption available after a 48-hour absence is doubled to $50 from $25; the annual exemption is being increased to $150 from $100 and will be made available after an absence of seven days, instead of 12; the over-all amount of goods which may be cleared at the flat rate of 25 per cent is being increased from $100 to $150; and, finally, the $5 casual exemption is being increased to $10. Having regard to the 25 per cent flat rate, most consumer goods purchased by travellers would otherwise be subject to Customs duty, sales and excise taxes of at least 25 per cent of the retail value. Duty free imports by returning Canadian residents, as I indicated earlier, amounted to $110 million in 1973, of which about $71.6 million were from the United States.
Judging from the hon. member's comments, he is most critical of those sections thus far objected to by the hon. member for York-Simcoe. Here again, this is not something new as there is already provision under the Customs Tariff Act for withdrawal, for example, of a general preferential tariff. May I say, for the edification of all hon. members, that this can be found in the Customs Tariff Act, section 3(2), and I refer specifically to subsection 2 where the governor in council may, by order in council, from time to time withdraw the benefit of the general preferential tariff in whole or in part from any country to which it has been extended. That would answer the hon. member who, I think appropriately enough, does not wish to see authority drain away from parliament.
What we have tried to do in this instance is see to it that something does not come into the country that we want to restrict. I could name, off the top of my head, things like Eskimo carvings from another country and the impact they would have. It is a handicraft, but we want to be able to say it is not a handicraft within the meaning of this section. I do not know whether or not this is an example of giving one more turn to the rope around the ankles, as was mentioned by the hon. member.
I might say that this item will provide for duty free entry of handicraft products from developing countries, that is, countries which have been designated as beneficiaries under the general preferential tariff. A list of handicraft products to be allowed entry under this item will be established by order in council. An initial list of such products could include wood carvings, basketwork, ceramic articles, pottery, jewellery, glassware, batik prints, shawls, scarves and mufflers. I am happy that my wife has taken up batiking; otherwise I would not have known how to pronounce the word.
For many products it may be difficult to distinguish between handicrafts and other products simply on the basis of their technical and physical characteristics. It is
Customs Tariff
therefore necessary to require certification by a competent authority in the exporting country. So that here again I suspect it is a question of degree. The hon. member for York-Simcoe pointed out that this is a temporary measure covering a particular area. I think it is right to raise it, but it may be making too big a bogey out of this particular operation.


Mr. O'Connell:: Madam Chairman, I do not think you saw me rise because I am behind you. May I ask the parliamentary secretary a few questions on item 69615-1? First, these items are now shown as being free of duty. What was the tariff prior to this change? Second, does the convention require that the items described here enter Canada free of duty, or is it in the discretion of the importing country to establish a tariff item and, if so, are there limitations?
Third, I would like to ask whose designation prevails in the case when it is a question of whether the item, such as a moving picture film, a video tape recording, and so forth, fits these categories. Is it the importing country, that is, Canada in our case, or is it sufficient for the exporting country to so designate, or is it the United Nations? If it is only one of these, what arrangements are there for resolving any differences of opinion as to whether an item fits a category or not? Are there such arrangements? What are the arrangements with the provinces with respect to educational-cultural designations?
Finally, I should like to ask the parliamentary secretary, without unduly complicating his life at this point, the following question. This convention was established in 1948, as I read in the report here. Do we in Canada have many difficulties with the convention that have come to his attention, and if we do, is there any pressure on our part to have it reviewed?


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: I thank the hon. member for his question. Quite frankly, I did not consider, in answer to the question raised, the previous form of the tariff. As the hon. member indicated, either in the late 1940s or early 1950s, since the convention was adopted, these goods have come in free of duty. The convention provides that they come in free of duty, and there is no discretion allowed the host country. Once you sign the convention, the products must come in free.


Martin Patrick O'Connell: There is no change here, is there?


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: No. The main purpose of this provision is to give the Department of National Revenue the authority, which it does not have now, to stop entry of the kind of product mentioned by the hon. member for Hamilton-Wentworth. There is an appeal procedure if a question does arise as to whether an item should or should not have been accepted under the convention. The convention applies to these procedures.


William Gordon Ritchie: Madam Chairman, I should like to put a question regarding tourist exemptions. A year or two ago, in discussions with the United States with regard to trade, the so-called tourist exemption provisions came in for considerable discussion and the question was raised whether or not this was a trade irritant. At that time it appeared that the Americans felt we discriminated unrea-
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January 22, 1975
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sonably against Canadians bringing back goods, mainly from the United States, compared with their nationals. I should like to ask the parliamentary secretary what discussions, if any, there have been with the United States authorities. Second, what effect will the exemptions which are now in effect have on our balance of payments or the relative value of pay-out from tourists back in Canada, versus Americans going home from Canada?


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: I might say to the hon. member that I tried to indicate the amount of money involved, the number of Canadians and the amount spent by Canadians, which is roughly the same, although I am advised by officials that Americans now spend more in Canada. This move was not made after consultation but was a unilateral move by Canada.


William Gordon Ritchie: Could the parliamentary secretary give any indication as to what effect this new ruling will have on the relative spending of these two groups of tourists in each other's country? Have any such calculations been made?


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: I understand that this matter has been studied and there are some figures which I may give when the officials have them. We do not have them here, but I shall provide them to the hon. member.


William Gordon Ritchie: I have a question which relates to a bicycle factory at Rivers, Manitoba, which the hon. member for Marquette raised. There was a combined effort by Japanese interests and the Department of Northern Affairs and Indian Development to attempt to involve some of our native people. There was some complaints that the tariff changes would cause much hardship and perhaps the closing of the factory. I believe that the minister, along with the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, undertook to look into this matter to see whether the complaint was justified and whether any other arrangements could be made. Could the parliamentary secretary give an answer to this question?


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: Yes. Meetings have been held with this industry and with others in a similar industry. My information is that officials in the department and other interested government departments met with Canadian bicycle manufacturers and asked for further information from them. The additional information which has now been received from the manufacturers is being reviewed, and I understand that the minister's officials will be reporting to him shortly on this item. If any change is proposed there is authority to withdraw this provision by order in council.
Some meetings have already been held, but they need more. I understand the information is now in and the officials are to bring it to the attention of the minister. My information is that there is no particular dispute, as I think is alleged in the press, between the departments. It is a matter that they are concerned with and that they are both looking at.


William Gordon Ritchie: Madam Chairman, on the matter of tariffs on sugar and rice, sugar of course has risen rapidly in

price. There have been many consumer complaints, but it would seem that sugar prices will remain relatively high. As I understand it, our sugar industry is protected by a subsidy when there are abnormally low prices. I believe it is a national decision whether or not we have a sugar industry, because the cost of producing sugar in Canada has been very much higher than outside. With this in mind, I was asked what advantage there would be in having a sugar tariff at this time. Even more so in the case of rice, it would seem in the interests of the consumer and of Canada as a whole that rice be admitted duty free. It is hard to see what industries would be adversely affected by the addition of rice as a duty free product.


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: The hon. member is dealing with clause 2. I wonder if we should finish the items in clause 1 first, and we will then go into the item raised by the hon. member.


Sinclair McKnight Stevens: I would ask the parliamentary secretary to return to his explanation of item 87500-1. I believe he gave a precedent. I did not have the advantage of seeing the wording of the tariff item that he was referring to, or the section, but as I understand his remarks there seemed to be discretionary power given to the cabinet to withdraw an item if they saw fit. I believe that is considerably different from the provision we are being asked to pass today, which is going the other way in giving the cabinet the right to include certain handicraft items as they see fit.
I raise this question because I think the wording of 87500-1 is very wide. As I read it, the country from which Canada is importing these handicrafts simply designates what goods should be included as handicrafts. In that way they can take advantage of the section that we are passing which in turn, as I read it, is a straight delegation of authority by this parliament to cabinet to take this action. I was wondering if the parliamentary secretary could be more explicit and indicate whether he has any precedent for the cabinet being given the power to include certain goods not already set out in a tariff schedule in the fashion that has been contemplated under 87500-1.


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: My information is that under section 273 of the Customs Act there is provision to designate materials that can be either reduced or removed, and this reference is specifically to goods to be further processed. I believe this is the precedent to which the hon. member referred.


Sinclair McKnight Stevens: Could the parliamentary secretary indicate if those items are actually shown in the tariff? I think there is a distinction between saying that the cabinet has the right to say that item such and such may be reduced or otherwise dealt with under the schedule-its being mentioned by name-but here we have a broad concept of simply referring to handicraft goods, and I would like to know the precedent for that type of broad power being given by parliament to cabinet to deal, in a discretionary way, with what shall come under the heading of handicraft goods.


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: There seems to be some suggestion that that does not appear. I am informed that it is under section 273, paragraphs (j), (k) and (1). If there is some concern about this item and hon. members wish to stand it, we could do
so.
January 22, 1975


Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert: On this particular point, clause 273 does not appear in the Customs Tariff Act because there are not that many clauses, but if one goes to the Customs Act I would agree that there is a clause 273. It is headed "Powers of the governor in council". But in the revised statutes there is quite a distinction; there is a transfer of materials to lists of free entry provided they are used in articles of Canadian manufacture. Handicraft goods are not; they are already finished. So they are different. Paragraph (k) reads:
-Granting a drawback of the whole or part of the duty paid on articles that have been used in Canadian manufacture-
Paragraph (i) reads:
-regulating the form in which transfers of goods in warehouse or bond from one person to another shall be entered-
Paragraph (j) refers to materials that enter into the manufacture of Canadian articles, Canadian manufactures. This is not just a matter of goods being brought in and then sold. As a matter of fact, it is very interesting to see the type of regulations that the governor in council can make under section 273 of the Customs Act. They are not of the type that is contemplated in this particular item. The parliamentary secretary was correct that the governor in council in many instances, under the Customs Tariff, has the power of making orders in council or regulations as to the manner in which goods may be imported. Certainly, the Minister of Finance under certain sections of the act has the power of setting a quota with regard to any particular commodity, and it is done by order in council. I am in full agreement there. But again I come to the point that this is a precedent for the adding or the subtraction of commodities which are handicraft items. Eskimo carvings, for example, could be produced cheaply, machine-made, but certainly they would not be handicrafts within the description of this item.
I rather think the parliamentary secretary will want to recast his thinking on this particular item. I would agree with his suggestion that this item in clause 1 should stand because of the discussion that has arisen. It can be dealt with later by the minister. I think that if we stood the item we could deal with schedule 2 and clauses 2 and 3, then stand the bill for further consideration of clause 1 in committee of the whole. The committee could then rise and report progress, and perhaps we could see it as six o'clock.


Mr. Haidasz:: I would like to ask the parliamentary secretary, with regard to tariff item 87500-1, whether the handicraft goods referred to in that item would include imported national costumes and rare musical instruments that many ethnic cultural dance and song and musical ensembles have to import into Canada from other countries. Since the multiculturalism program was announced by the government there has been increased interest in these cultural functions, and many of these people have had to pay higher duties on national costumes and musical instruments of a rare kind which are not available in Canada.


Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert: They cannot come in under the general preferential tariff?
Customs Tariff


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: I am advised that provided they met the definition, it is conceivable that they could. We are talking about goods coming in from developing countries and it has to be the general preferential tariff. I draw that caveat to the attention of the hon. member. I do not want to confuse him and say any country could do that, but conceivably these items come within the definition that would make it possible. I thank him for the question.


Mr. Roche:: Madam Chairman, with reference to item 87500-1 I want to ask the parliamentary secretary if this is the main way in which we would import handicraft items from developing countries, in view of the statements by the minister in the budget that such imports would be increased. If so, what would be the approximate trade value of those importations? If all this is aimed at meeting our trade relations with developing nations in an effort to have them plug into the international trade systems of the world in a more meaningful way, what are the criteria for the selection of those developing countries that we wish to help? Which developing countries would benefit most from the specific item we are discussing now?


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: Madam Chairman, I am given to understand that well over 100 countries have been proclaimed to qualify under this provision. I should like to say to the hon. member that this is a small or insignificant factor. The whole series, reducing tariff items on goods coming in from developing countries, became effective on July 1.


Howard Earl Johnston: Madam Chairman, could I return to item No. 70313-1? I should like to know how long this amount has remained at $100? During the years it has gone up to $200, but I do not know whether it has gone below $100. For how many years has it stood at $100?


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: Madam Chairman, while officials are looking up those figures, might I reply to a question asked by the hon. member for Dauphin? In 1971 the over-all balance with the United States, in Canada's favour, was $194 million; in 1972, $104 million; and in 1973, the first half, $77 million. In reply to the question of the hon. member for Okanagan-Kootenay, the allowance has been $100 since 1970.


Howard Earl Johnston: Was it raised, or lowered, in 1970? Had it been a higher, or a lower, figure?


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: It was raised.


Howard Earl Johnston: I still wonder at the reason for this figure. Is the purpose to reduce Canadian spending overseas, or is it related at all to trade deficits? In the parliamentary secretary's earlier reply he mentioned that it had something to do with the total value of goods that came into the country without duty because of this provision. I am wondering why we continue to impose it; why we allow this advantage. If we were running a heavy trade deficit, I should think this might be a factor in an effort to reduce Canadian spending overseas. As I have observed the pressure of traffic at airports in recent times, however, I wonder whether the government might not be under some pressure from Customs officials. When a giant plane comes in, you can see them turn pale at the prospect of all

January 22, 1975
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these instant decisions. If that has anything to do with it, it seems to me that a higher figure might make sense.


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: I might say, first of all, that I was using the figure as an illustration to give some indication to the House of the number of people and the amount of money involved. Secondly, when I was given the earlier figures I believe I said for the first half of 1973 it was $77 million. I should have said that was an estimate. Over-all we are running a deficit on tourist expenditures of $202 million for 1971, $234 million for 1972, and the estimate for 1973 is $290 million. I do not believe it was a question of penalty; I think it was a question of an additional exemption for tourists, an accommodation to them rather than a penalty. If we were attempting to cut down their expenditure, we might move the figure the other way. It is a question of judgment whether we put it at $170, $125 or $200. This figure seems reasonable in the circumstances, and it will be watched.


B. Keith Penner: Shall clause 1 carry, or is it agreed that it shall stand?


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: Madam Chairman, I believe it is agreed that it shall stand so that the minister will be able to deal with the final item raised, 87500-1, tomorrow.
Clause 1 stands.


B. Keith Penner: Shall clause 2 carry?
On clause 2-Schedule A further amended.


Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert: Madam Chairman, as I count it, it is only of 18 months and a bit duration. It is designed as a temporary spur to the importation, primarily from the Caribbean and developing countries, of certain foodstuffs, raw materials, sugar, animal products and fruits. I do not know just how much it will stimulate the importation of goods from those countries against importation from traditional sources. Perhaps we could get an indication from the parliamentary secretary as to the real motivation and why it is only for 18 months. The former rates, particularly in the general tariff, will apply to those commodities once we reach June, 1976. The list is a bit esoteric and varied. The parliamentary secretary might also indicate, for the benefit of some of my colleagues, how
and why certain terms are chosen, because the list appears rather strange and it is a very mixed bag.


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: Madam Chairman, I am advised that this is part of our anti-inflationary move. That is why tariffs are reduced. This does not apply only to Caribbean and developing countries, although some foodstuffs come only from such places. As for definitions, these are consumer products. I suspect that the list is made up as products are exported to this country. The list is probably extended from time to time as particular consumer products come on the market.


B. Keith Penner: Shall clause 2 carry?
Clause 2 agreed to.
Clause 3 agreed to.


B. Keith Penner: Shall schedule I carry?


Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert: On a point of order, Madam Chairman, schedule I cannot carry because we stood clause 1. Schedule I is dependant on clause 1.


B. Keith Penner: Is it agreed that Schedule I shall stand?


Some hon. Members:: Agreed.
Schedule I stands.
Schedule II agreed to.


Jack Sydney George (Bud) Cullen: Madam Chairman, the hon. member for Dauphin raised questions about sugar and rice. I will attempt to bring them to the minister's attention when he is here tomorrow, and he will comment on them. I understand that this question comes under schedule II. In any event, the minister will deal with the matter tomorrow.


Stanley Howard Knowles: Six o'clock.
Progress reported.


The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Morin):: It being six o'clock, this House stands adjourned until tomorrow at two o'clock.
At 5.55 p.m. the House adjourned, without question put, pursuant to Standing Order.

Thursday, January 23, 1975