1970-05-08

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS


Hon. Jean-Eudes Dube (Minister of Veterans Affairs):: Mr. Speaker, 25 years ago today the armies of the allied nations in Europe stood at ease after five years of fierce struggle. Victory had been achieved, but at a fearful cost. Nearly 45,000 Canadians had given their lives in the horror-filled days and nights since September, 1939. The end of fighting in Europe, VE Day, was a day of wild exultation, of joy and of thanksgiving, because peace with liberty had been won. We and all coming generations must remember this day some 25 years past. We remember and celebrate not because we seek to glorify war but because we must never forget the horror of war and we must ever be vigilant to maintain peace.
I was vividly impressed this past week by the tremendous sacrifices made by Canadians in this struggle for peace. As hon. members are aware, a Canadian delegation was invited to Holland to participate in ceremonies marking the liberation of their country. One very moving function in which we participated was at the Canadian War Cemetery at Groes-beek. There is the final resting place of more than 2,000 Canadians. This impressive ceremony with our Dutch friends enabled us to pay tribute to those who fell and also to cement our very warm relations with the Dutch people.
This evening on Parliament Hill a very impressive ceremony will be held to mark this twenty-fifth anniversary. Naturally it is our wish that as many Canadians as possible of all ages take part. The event will be telecast on both national networks of the CBC. This ceremony has a dual purpose; it will pay silent tribute to those who made the supreme sacrifice and it will also enshrine the jubilation which was felt 25 years ago when peace was achieved.
I hope the events which will take place in Ottawa this evening will adequately express the gratitude of this nation to those who served. I also hope this ceremony will create in the hearts of all Canadians a firm resolve to move with all humanity toward a world of lasting and universal peace. All members of both Houses, of course, have been invited to attend and I hope that as many as possible will be able to be present.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Mr. G. W. Baldwin (Peace River):: Mr. Speaker, we subscribe to the sentiments which have been expressed by the minister. I am sure all Canadians everywhere will join in saying amen to what he has said today.
I was among those who were privileged to be with the minister in the party that went to Holland. It was a very memorable and stirring series of occasions, particularly as we were accompanied by people like General Simonds and other senior retired members of the armed forces who played such a distinguished part in the last war.
[DOT] (11:10 a.m.)
I was personally interested in the visit to Groesbeek since it was my first visit, as it was for other members of the party, in 25 years. It was a particularly memorable and emotional experience when after the completion of the services, Dutch children decorated each of the almost 2,400 graves with a flower. I am sure there were very few people there, even hard-bitten parliamentarians, who had dry eyes when that ceremony was completed. The grass grows green on those graves and the reception of the Canadian people by the people of Holland was very generous and kind. There is still a very warm place in their hearts for the people of Canada and for the soldiers, airmen and sailors who helped in the liberation.
One parting sentiment I should like to express is that one could not see those graves without thinking that the cost of cure is very high. Sometimes the cost of prevention also seems high, but I believe we must all take into account that prevention is cheaper than cure in matters of this kind.

May 8, 1970
VE Day Ceremony


Mr. Max Sallsman (Waterloo):: Mr. Speaker, it is a great privilege to speak on behalf of the New Democratic Party and to join with our colleagues in the House in honouring the bravery and the memory of those Canadians who died in the second world war and in celebrating the victory of 25 years ago.
Despite the horrors of war, those who served in the military services will recall the deep friendships that were made among people in the services, the lack of cant, and how the reality of human existence took on a new meaning. I recall that when the war ended on VE day I was in Flensburg on the Danish border. It was not a surprise to us that the war was over. We had anticipated it for quite a while. We won that war not only because we had marshalled brave men but also because the nation at home had marshalled its resources to win the victory.
It has always been a source of regret to me that we have never been able to do the same kind of marshalling of our resources for the purposes of peace, for the purpose of ending poverty, for the purpose of removing injustices from our society, as we have been able to do in war. It seems to me that to truly honour the brave men who gave their lives for peace we should emulate their sacrifice, we should emulate their dedication, and marshall the resources of our nation in order to achieve the victory of humanity that is possible to us. We should not forget that although we cannot do anything for the dead-they are gone-there are still veterans who are living today in dire circumstances, and we should take the noble words that we utter in the House and translate them into something more tangible to show our gratitude to those men who offered their services and their lives to our country.


Mr. Rene  Malle@Champlain: Mr. Speaker, on this anniversary, I wish to pay a tribute to the veterans who were actively associated with the victory of the Allied forces.
However, if we analyse all the events of the past 25 years, we must unfortunately realize that war has not yet ended and that freedom does not exist everywhere in the world. Indeed, we only have to note what is going on at the present time in Viet Nam, in Cambodia and elsewhere to realize that we have perhaps too much ignored the human factor when real problems have to be solved.
We find among other things that the vanquished in this last war have risen from it with greater success than the victors. We find that affluence deriving from war cannot be achieved in time of peace, and this thought will prevent us from rejoicing at the victory achieved 25 years ago.



PRIME MINISTER


Gerald William Baldwin: On a
question of privilege, Mr. Speaker, may I be permitted at this time to wish the Prime Minister well on his imminent trip and to tell him I am sure he will find the accommodation quite satisfactory on the aircraft in which he will be travelling. I believe it is the one on which I had the privilege of travelling in returning from Holland.
I tell him that when he travels abroad he will travel as the representative of Canada and all Canadians. I wish him well on his mission. I tell him that we will, of course, miss him during the question period. Hopefully, Mr. Speaker, he will have an opportunity to attend the sessions of the parliamentary and democratic institutions wherever he goes-


Mr. Fairweather:: We can speed Hansard to him by air.


Gerald William Baldwin: -and it may be that he will have a different approach to the question period when he returns. On behalf of the members of this party may I say that we hope he will have a good trip and we wish him well on his mission on behalf of the people of Canada.


Mr. T. C. Douglas (Nanaimo-Cowichan-The Islands):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to echo the sentiments just expressed by the hon. member for Peace River and to say to the Prime Minister that I am sure we are speaking for all Canadians when we wish him well on his journey. He will be going as the head of the government of Canada, speaking for all of us, and we know he will do Canada proud.
I do not know whether he will miss us; we will certainly miss him. However, perhaps he could arrange with his office to send him our questions when he is away, although we would probably get the same kind of replies that we get when he is here.


Mr. Whelan:: If they are the same old questions.

May 8, 1970	COMMONS


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh!


Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas: It may be, Mr. Speaker, that in the company of geisha girls the questions will take on a new meaning.


Mr. Groos:: Tell us about it.


Some hon. Members:: Explain.


Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas: Mr. Speaker, I can assure the Prime Minister that he goes with the best wishes of all of us and we wish him bon voyage.


Mr. Gerard Laprise (Abiiibi):: Mr. Speaker, the members of the Ralliement Creditiste extend to the Prime Minister their best wishes for a "Bon Voyage". I hope that his trip to Japan will serve the best interests of Canada.
We are convinced that he will endeavour to make Canada better known and appreciated, and that on his return, he will give us an account of the favourable impressions he will receive during his visit.
[DOT] (11:20 a.m.)


Right Hon. P. E. Trudeau (Prime Minister):: Mr. Speaker, I am very moved by these words of kind farewell. I do not know if it is a combination of spring and the celebration of VE Day, but peace has obviously fallen over the House. I promise I will do nothing in the next three weeks to disrupt that feeling. When I return I shall be looking forward of course to the same kind of welcome as this send-off. I can tell the House that I will be reading Hansard, every day and learning more and more, no doubt, about the superiority of our procedures over those of the countries I will be visiting.

I also want to thank the hon. members for their good wishes.

I was interested to hear that the hon. member for Peace River had been flying in the plane in which I will be travelling. As an additional precaution I shall ask the crew to check the fuel.
DEBATES	6733
Canadian Radio-Television Commission HOUSE OF COMMONS



PRESENCE IN SPEAKER'S GALLERY OF MRS. MARY DELANEY

Mr. Albert Bechard (Bonaventure):: Mr. Speaker, it is with great pleasure that I wish to bring to your attention and to the attention of this House the presence in Your Honour's gallery of a distinguished Canadian, one who during the last war gave eight children to this country, seven boys and one girl, namely, Mrs. Mary Delaney of New Carlisle in the beautiful county of Bonaventure. She was invited to attend officially the ceremony in Ottawa today in commemoration of the twenty-fifth anniversary of VE day.



MOTION TO ADJOURN UNDER S.O. 26 CANADIAN RADIO-TELEVISION COMMISSION IMPACT OF RULINGS AND REGULATIONS

Mr. P. M. Mahoney (Calgary South):: Mr. Speaker, I ask leave, seconded by the hon. member for Prince George-Peace River, to move the adjournment of the House under Standing Order 26 for the purpose of discussing a specific and important matter requiring urgent consideration, namely the divisive impact of recent rulings and regulations and announcements of proposed regulations by the Canadian Radio-Television Commission upon Canada and the indications by the chairman of that commission that such rulings and regulations and proposed regulations are in compliance with the mandate given the commission by Parliament in the Broadcasting Act, and that if Parliament does not like the way the commission is interpreting its mandate it is up to Parliament to change the mandate, not up to the commission to change its interpretation.


Mr. Speaker:: The hon. member for Calgary South has given the Chair the required notice of his intention to propose this motion. As hon. members know, the matter raised by the hon. member for Calgary South is one which is now before the Standing Committee on Broadcasting, Films and Assistance to the Arts. Indeed, the various statements referred to by the hon. member were statements made before the committee. What is being proposed, therefore, is that committee evidence be discussed by the House at this time under the terms of Standing Order 26.

May 3. 1970
Inquiries of the Ministry
My suggestion to the hon. member for Calgary South is that the subject matter of the motion is one that raises questions of general policy which the House may very well want to discuss in due course but in my view it should not be the subject of an emergency debate at this time. I suggest to hon. members that the circumstances referred to in the motion do not meet the requirement of urgency called for in Standing Order 26.



ORAL QUESTION PERIOD


Gerald William Baldwin: Mr. Speaker, after this infringement of patent by the hon. member for Calgary South, (Mr. Mahoney) and to raise the level of discussion and negotiation in the House to the proper degree, may I direct a question to the President of the Treasury Board in order that we may resume our usual discussions and negotiations at the right level. Would he report to the House on the present state of discussions and negotiations with the postal workers and the situation as it stands today?


Hon. C. M. Drury (President of the Treasury Board):: Mr. Speaker, yesterday there was released for publication the report of the conciliation board, which was not a unanimous report. In most of the conclusions, there was a majority view, but on the question of wages three separate recommendations were made. This report, having been studied for a short period by the parties concerned, will now form the basis for continuing negotiations which we are arranging with the Council of Postal Unions.


Gerald William Baldwin: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. While recognizing the problems which are faced, is the minister able to indicate to the House and country that any steps will be or can be taken in the event of a strike to ensure that we have at least a minimum measure of mail service?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: Mr. Speaker, I think the question assumes a strike, and I think that to assume or presume at this juncture that a strike will take place perhaps would not help the course of the negotiations.


Gerald William Baldwin: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a final supplementary question to the Prime

Minister. Before he goes, has he given any consideration to placing a helmsman in the presently empty wheelhouse of the Post Office Department?



POSSIBLE NATIONAL STRIKE-CONSIDERATION OF ISSUE OF JOB SECURITY

Mr. David Lewis (York South):: Mr. Speaker, may I direct to the President of the Treasury Board a question that could be supplementary to one of the questions already posed. The President of the Treasury Board referred to the wages question as an issue. Is it not the case that the problem of job security is also an issue between the parties? Also, in view of the unanimous recommendation of the conciliation board that the parties continue discussing this matter and amend the present articles in the agreement in some way to ensure job security, is the minister instructing his negotiators to negotiate on this matter?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: Mr. Speaker, the answer to that, of course, is yes.


David Lewis: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Considering the difficulties which have arisen out of the provisions in the relevant legislation, which do not permit a conciliation board to deal with the subject of job security in its various forms, is the President of the Treasury Board ready to negotiate some provision in the collective agreement and is he also ready to consider the necessary amendments to the legislation to put these matters into collective bargaining?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: Mr. Speaker, I do not think I should say that the government is ready to make concessions in any particular field. This is the subject for negotiation. With respect to the legislation, the extent of items which may be bargained or bargainable are covered by the Public Service Staff Relations Act. As the hon. member knows, this Act is being continuously kept under review.


Mr. David Orlikow (Winnipeg North):: have a question for the President of the Treasury Board. In view of the fact that the difficulties with regard to job security being experienced by the postal employees are similar to the difficulties being experienced by members of the Public Service Alliance and the Professional Institute, is the government giving active consideration to amending the relevant sections of the Act so that questions of job security and promotions can be the subject of collective bargaining under the agreement?
May 8. 1970


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: Mr. Speaker, one of the problems about that is semantic in that people's concept or understanding of what is meant by job security covers a wide range of topics. Some aspects of it are immediately subject to negotiation and provision made in the collective agreement. Others must of necessity apply across the whole range of bargaining units in the public service and consequently are not susceptible to individual bargaining negotiations.



WAGE POSITION OF FORMER LAPALME EMPLOYEES NOW WORKING FOR GOVERNMENT

Mr. Thomas M. Bell (Saint John-Lancas-ter):: Mr. Speaker, may I ask a supplementary question. The minister may have seen in Hansard the question I asked yesterday of the Postmaster General. What is the status of the four former Lapalme drivers who accepted the government's offer of $3.25 an hour? I ask this question because of the over-all picture. Will they be frozen at this level or will they get the benefit of the new increased offer which has been made?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: Mr. Speaker, I have not seen the question and am not sure I understand its full import. I would like to take it as notice.


Thomas Miller Bell: Mr. Speaker, may I rephrase it in a general way. How does the minister reconcile the $3.25 an hour and the new increases that do not match that at all across the country?


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. I would think that the question as asked is argumentative.



NATIONAL PARKS


Gérard Laprise: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development.
Could he tell us whether the negotiations with regard to establishing a national park at Forillon have been or will soon be resumed with the new Quebec government?


Hon. Jean Chretien (Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development):: Mr. Speaker, I do not know as yet who will be the new ministers of the Quebec government, but I have every reason to believe that
Inquiries of the Ministry negotiations will be resumed without delay for the establishment of one or two national parks in Quebec and I am confident that they will prove easier with the new government.


Gérard Laprise: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask a supplementary question. Could the minister assure the House that he will speed the negotiations to guarantee that the development of the park will be undertaken before the next federal elections?


Mr. Speaker:: Order.


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: While I am on my feet, Mr. Speaker, I should like to make a comment on the question put to me by the hon. member for Abitibi.
When I referred to the former Quebec administration, I was not thinking of the Minister of Tourism, Fish and Game, with whom I have entertained very good relations, but of some of the other ministers who went down rather quickly a few days ago.



LACK OF FINAL WHEAT PAYMENT

Mr. Craig Stewart (Marquette):: My question is for the Minister without Portfolio in charge of the Wheat Board. Because of the fact that this year is the first time in over 20 years farmers have not received a final wheat payment, can the minister tell the House if the reason for no final wheat payment this year is that he is buying a lot of champagne for his office?


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please.



FINANCE


Hon. Marcel Lambert (Edmonton West):: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance was here a few moments ago.


Gerald William Baldwin: He left to get another 1,000 letters on the white paper.


Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert: In the
absence of the Minister of Finance I will direct my question to the Prime Minister. Does the reduction in the margin requirement for stock market operations indicate the first

May 8, 1970
Inquiries of the Ministry easing in the financial credit restrictions that have prevailed for the past few months at the direction of the government?


Gerald William Baldwin: Here he is now.


Hon. E. J. Benson (Minister of Finance):: Mr. Speaker, the government of Canada was not consulted by the stock exchanges with regard to the easing of their margins. Of course they do not come directly under the control of the federal government.


Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert: A supplementary question. Will the minister please explain if there is approval of these reductions in credit restrictions? Will he also explain the apparent contradiction in the easing of stock market operations, usually the preserve of the more affluent, and the government's proposal to introduce consumer credit restrictions as an anti-inflationary measure which will hit particularly at lower income groups in Canada?


Edgar John Benson: Mr. Speaker, there is no approval by the government of these reductions.


Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert: A further supplementary. In light of the massive layoffs that have been announced in the electronics manufacturing industry, does the minister agree that consumer credit controls to restrict purchases of television sets, stereo sets and other recording equipment will further aggravate this serious situation?


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. The hon. member's supplementary question is argumentative.



QUEBEC-REFUND OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT TAX

Hon. Martial Asselin (Charlevoix):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to put a question to the Minister of Finance.
Since it is estimated that, the implementation of the medicare program in Quebec will cost close to $250 million before the end of the year, and since the new Premier has obvious difficulties in preparing his budget, does the Minister of Finance intend to give back to the government of Quebec the $200 million collected from Quebec taxpayers under the so-called "social development" tax in order to help the Premier of that province balance his budget?


Edgar John Benson: Mr. Speaker, I have answered this question many times in the past. There is no intention of turning over additional taxes collected to any province except through the equalization payments. Of course, Quebec's equalization will be higher in the forthcoming year. Also, in the budget which I presented the figures we used assumed that Quebec would be coming into the medicare plan.



AMENDMENT OF CANADA STUDENT LOANS ACT IF SUFFICIENT SUMMER JOBS NOT AVAILABLE

Max Saltsman: I wish to direct my question to the Minister of Finance. It concerns a statement made by the Minister of Manpower and Immigration to the effect that there will be an attempt to increase the number of summer jobs for students. In view of the uncertainty about employment generally and for students in particular, is the minister prepared to amend the Canada Student Loans Act if students are unable to get jobs this summer and consequently are unable to attend university?


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. It seems that the hon. member is anticipating the debate we will be having on this subject fairly soon.



UNITED NATIONS


[Stage Direction]
Mr. Warren Allmand (Notre-Dame-de-
Grace): My question is directed to the Prime Minister. Considering the fact that today is the twenty-fifth anniversary of the end of World War II and the government is undertaking extensive ceremonies to mark this event this evening, will the Prime Minister advise whether the government is planning any ceremonies to mark the 25th anniversary of the signing of the United Nations charter which took place on June 26, 1945 in San Francisco and which was an attempt by all mankind to avoid further wars like we experienced from 1939 to 1945?
Pierre Elliott Trudeau: I thank the hon. member for the question. The answer is yes. On that occasion there will be ceremonies both in Parliament and outside to mark that important event.
May 8, 1970



ADOPTION BY CANADA OF DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS

Mr. John Gilbert (Broadview):: Will the
Prime Minister pursue his good intentions with regard to the United Nations by having Canada adopt the universal declaration of human rights, following the lead of 55 other countries throughout the world?


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: As the hon. member may have noticed, during the past two years we on the government side have been attempting to insert into our constitution a binding declaration of human rights. We welcome any support from the hon. member and his party.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!



APPOINTMENT OF PRESIDENT OF PANARCTIC OILS LIMITED

Mr. Steven E. Paproski (Edmonton Centre):: My question is for the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development. What action is the government taking to fill the position of president of Panarctic Oils Ltd.?


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. I am not sure this is urgent. In view of the fact I am not in a position to judge, the minister might be permitted to answer.


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: My
answer is rather simple, Mr. Speaker. It is not up to the government to appoint the chairman of that company; it is the responsibility of the officers and I hope they will make the appointment as soon as possible.



CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION


Mr. J. P. Nowlan (Annapolis Valley):: My
question is directed to the Prime Minister. In the interests of peace and harmony between the CBC and Radio-Canada, would the Prime Minister like to look at the translation of his answer in Hansard of Monday, May 4, when he is reported as having said that he received no invitation from the French network of the
Inquiries of the Ministry CBC to comment on the Quebec election? Is that a correct translation and in accordance with the facts?


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: Generally yes, Mr. Speaker, it is in accordance with the facts. I do not know if there is a comma left out. I do not understand. If the hon. member will set himself out as an expert on translation and tell me how this can be improved, I will gladly listen.


John Patrick (Pat) Nowlan: A supplementary question, again in the interests of peace and harmony. I do not set myself out as an expert on translation but I ask the Prime Minister if he was not in fact interviewed by Lucien Millet for the radio and television sections of Radio-Canada for six minutes and ten seconds, and that the interview appeared twice on the French television network and was heard three times that evening on French radio? Is that not really more in accord with the facts than the report in Hansard for May 4?


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: Mr. Speaker, what happened was that, after leaving the House, as is so often the case I was invited by people with microphones and cameras to answer certain questions. Rarely do I know in advance what they will be. It is true that I did on the day after the election, I believe, speak in the Commonwealth Room before a battery of cameras and microphones. I was not invited by the CBC French network as such, but I was invited by the English network to participate in a program on the subject mentioned, as I was equally invited by Channel 10 in Montreal.


Martial Asselin: Mr
Speaker, I have a supplementary question for the Prime Minister. Did he ask officials of the CBC French network why he was not invited to make some comments, as he was by other stations?


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: No, Mr. Speaker. I replied in good faith to questions asked in good faith by members in the House.
I referred certain matters to the Secretary of State as he answers to the House for the CBC. I should want to assure hon. members that I am not making any attempts whatsoever to go against CBC employees who are doing their best.
However, several members seem to think that results are not always satisfactory and,

May 8, 1970
Inquiries of the Ministry in my opinion, the authorities should be advised that if the employees work well the results will be better, we hope.



INDUSTRY


Mr. J. Edward Broadbent (Oshawa-Whil-by):: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of National Revenue. Could the minister inform the House whether the recently begun study into abuses of the United States-Canada auto trade pact has been completed? If so, would the minister make a statement to the House soon?


Hon. Jean-Pierre Cole (Minister of National Revenue):: Mr. Speaker, I said that the committee had been looking into certain allegations of abuses in the importation of auto parts, but I have not received any report as yet.



AUTOMOTIVE MANUFACTURING ASSISTANCE REGULATIONS-EXTENSION OF EXPIRY DATE

John Edward Broadbent: Mr. Speaker, I have a further question which, in view of the absence of the Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce, I will direct to the Minister of National Revenue. Is the government considering extending the deadline for the automotive manufacturing assistance regulations? If so, would the minister assure the House in the near future that no such extension will be granted unless a similar extension is granted to workers involved in the TAB agreement?


Hon. Jean-Pierre Cote (Minister of National Revenue):: Mr. Speaker, I am not the minister who answers for that matter but I will bring it to the attention of the minister concerned.



PROVISION OF ORDERS TO CANADAIR TO FORESTALL EMPLOYEE LAY-OFFS-MARKET FOR WATER BOMBER AIRCRAFT

Hon. J. A. MacLean (Malpeque):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to pose a question to the Minister of Supply and Services. Does the government have any plans at this time to place orders for equipment with the air industry in time to forestall the necessity for large lay-offs such as the anticipated lay-off of two to three thousand employees of Canadair?
[Mr. Trudeau.l


Hon. James Richardson (Minister of Supply and Services):: Mr. Speaker, we are concerned about the reduction in the workload at Canadair, but there are no particular contracts in view at the present time which would increase the work force of that company.


John Angus MacLean: In the absence of the Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce perhaps I could pose my supplementary question to the Minister of Supply and Services. Has the minister any success to report regarding the attempt to find further export markets for the water bomber aircraft for forest firefighting which was developed in Canada by Canadair?


James Armstrong Richardson: Mr. Speaker, I think that is a question that should be referred to the Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce, and I will be glad to bring it to his attention.



TAXATION


Mr. Robert McCleave (Halifax-East Hants):: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance and arises out of answers given by the hon. gentleman in the House when asked about points dealing with the white paper on tax reform. Is the minister going to reconsider the white paper proposals in light of any suggestions from the committees of both Houses now studying that document?


Edgar John Benson: Yes, Mr. Speaker.



WHEAT-CONTINUANCE OF ACREAGE REDUCTION PROGRAM BEYOND PRESENT YEAR

Mr. S. J. Korchinski (Mackenzie):: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister without Portfolio from Saskatchewan. In light of the discussions which were held in Ottawa on Monday and Tuesday, in view of the projected increases in wheat sales for the coming year, and also in view of the fact that the farmers have to make plans for this year and for next year, can the minister give the House at this time some degree of assurance that Operation Lift, which has caused so much depression and despondency in the west, will not be repeated next year?


Hon. Olio E. Lang (Minister wilhoul Portfolio):: Mr. Speaker, when Operation Lift was
May 8, 1970

announced it was indicated that the intention was to operate the program for one year. Nothing that has happened since that time has changed the situation. It was also indicated that certain provisions would have to be made to assure that some appropriate relationship was achieved between production and requirements during the next year, as no doubt will have to be the case in the years ahead. The meetings which were held were encouraging. The exporting countries recognized their share of the burden in regard to production problems, but this does not affect our program.



WHEAT-ACREAGE REDUCTION PROGRAM-ESTABLISHMENT OF APPEAL BOARD

Stanley James Korchinski: Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question which I will direct to the Minister of Agriculture. Can the minister inform the House whether the appeal board has been set up and the members named so that the people who may be affected can make applications and formulate their plans? If not, why is there such delay in making appointments to the appeal board?


Hon. H. A. Olson (Minister of Agriculture):: Mr. Speaker, the appeal board has not yet been set up but it will be set up in time to consider the applications that come in.
I should like to correct any misunderstanding that may be implied in the hon. member's question. The appeal board will not be set up for the purpose of considering or interpreting the regulations in advance. All of the decisions of the appeal board will be made- hopefully-within the regulations. If there is any further explanation that a producer needs in order to make seeding plans for this year, he can get in touch with the PFAA office in Regina, with my office, or with the office of the Minister without Portfolio from Saskatchewan. But that is not the function of the appeal board.



CONFERENCE OF WHEAT EXPORTING COUNTRIES-LONG-TERM COMMITMENTS REGARDING PRODUCTION CONTROL

Mr. A. P. Gleave (Saskaloon-Biggar):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister without Portfolio from Sas-katoon-Humboldt. In view of the recent meeting attended by several wheat exporting countries earlier this week, did the Canadian government at that meeting make any longinquiries of the Ministry term commitments in regard to continuing or maintaining controls over wheat and grain production?


Otto Emil Lang: Mr. Speaker, we indicated to the other countries at that meeting what our program is but went in no way beyond what we indicated when the program was announced in the House.


Alfred Pullen Gleave: A further supplementary question. Did any of the exporting countries that attended the meeting give any commitment that they would reduce acreage, either individually or collectively, in their respective countries?


Otto Emil Lang: Mr. Speaker, the meeting was not held for the purpose of making commitments, but the other countries that were represented did indicate what their plans were. In many cases where, unlike ourselves, these countries had not made sufficient progress in dealing with the production problem, they indicated what their plans were for the future to tackle the problem.



WHEAT-PROVISION OF BOXCARS BY CNR AND CPR

Donald Craig Stewart: A supplementary question for the minister. Is there a lack of co-operation in supplying boxcars for grain movement by either the CPR or the CNR?


Otto Emil Lang: Mr. Speaker, my recent conversations with the co-ordinator of the block system indicate that the railways have been cooperating in supplying the equipment requested to this date.



WHEAT-ACREAGE REDUCTION PROGRAM-AMENDMENTS TO WHEAT BOARD ACT REGULATIONS

Mr. John Burton (Regina East):: I have a supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Last Friday, in the absence of the minister, the Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce took a question of mine as notice. My question was: In view of the fact that the regulations tabled in respect of the wheat inventory reduction program cover only one portion of the Operation Lift program, can the minister indicate if the amendments to the regulations under the Canadian Wheat Board Act, also involved in this program, have been passed and when they will be made available to the farmers and members of this House?
May 8, 1970

Inquiries of the Ministry


Otto Emil Lang: Mr. Speaker, the regulations referred to have been put in final form and are being processed. I will have to check to determine exactly where they stand and at what stage they can be brought to the attention of hon. members.



PROVISION OF FOUR-BUSHEL QUOTA TO ALL ELEVATOR POINTS BY JULY 31

Mr. Lome Nyslrom (Yorkton-Melville):: Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question for the Minister without Portfolio from Saskatchewan. In view of the minister's previous commitment to western farmers that all country elevator points would have a 4-bushel quota by July 31, can the minister still guarantee this commitment?


Otto Emil Lang: Mr. Speaker, the reference to the four-bushel quota was, of course, an announcement by the Canadian Wheat Board indicating what it considered would be possible in the current portion of the crop year. I have no reason to doubt it will still be possible to do this.



FINAL PAYMENT ON DURUM WHEAT

Mr. A. B. Douglas (Assiniboia):: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the minister in charge of the Wheat Board. In view of the fact that Durum producers were encouraged to expect a final payment and in view of the serious cash shortage among prairie grain farmers, can the minister reassure the producers that this payment will be forthcoming and can he indicate how soon the Wheat Board payment will be made?


Otto Emil Lang: Mr. Speaker, the figures in respect of the actual amount of the final payment for each grade of Durum are now in the process of being finalized. I would hope that an announcement about the final payment may be forthcoming before long.



FINANCE


Mr. Gordon Ritchie (Dauphin):: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a question to the Minister of Finance. Does the government intend to proceed with credit curbs on durable household goods in view of the widespread slackness in that industry and, if so, when will such an announcement be made?
[Mr. Burton.)


Edgar John Benson: Mr. Speaker, the legislation with regard to commercial credit is presently under preparation. We have consulted with the interested parties and I would hope to have the legislation before the end of this part of the session.



EASING OF BANK LENDING POLICY IN SLOW-GROWTH AREAS

Mr. John Lundrigan (Gander-Twillingale):: Mr. Speaker, my supplementary is directed to the Minister without Portfolio in charge of the administration of the small business, fish, and farm loans acts. Can he say whether he has had any success in his negotiations with banking officials in order to ease credit at least in the slow-growth areas of Canada through the government loan acts.


Hon. Herb Gray (Minister without Portfolio):: Mr. Speaker, I have had conversations with the executive director of the Canadian Bankers Association and a senior officer of the bank that is among the most active in the hon. member's province just the other day. I hope this will lead to some improvement, but I hope to have a more definite report shortly.



VETERANS AFFAIRS


Mr. Harold E. Winch (Vancouver East):: Mr. Speaker, may I address a question to the Prime Minister. In view of the eulogies, and rightfully so, uttered today by spokesmen for all parties and supported, I am sure, by all members of the House, in memory of those who died on behalf of Canada in the second world war, and in view of the fact that there will be a memorial service on Parliament Hill this evening, may I ask the Prime Minister if he feels he is in a position to give the House some indication of when Parliament can pay its greatest homage and provide its greatest memorial through the passage of legislation beneficial to the dependants of those who died and those who returned disabled?


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: Well, Mr. Speaker, I agree that that type of legislation would be the greatest homage we could pay to these people, but on the substance of the question I cannot make any announcement to that effect today.
May 8. 1970



ATOMIC ENERGY


Mr. Rod Thomson (Ballleford-Kindersley):: Mr. Speaker, this question is directed to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources. In view of the fact that there is almost no mention of atomic energy in the report of the Department of Energy, Mines and Resources, will the minister say in a statement on motions what plans the government has for promotion of Candu atomic energy plants at home and abroad?


Mr. Speaker:: The question is in order only to the extent that the minister is invited to indicate whether he will make a statement.


Hon. J. J. Greene (Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources):: Mr. Speaker, I do not have any present intention to make such an announcement. However, if the hon. member would look at the annual report of Atomic Energy of Canada Limited I think he might see a great deal there that would be of interest to him.


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please.



CRIMINAL CODE


John Edward Broadbent: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Prime Minister. In view of the decision of the Minister of Justice not to meet with the representatives of the women's cavalcade on abortion, would the Prime Minister consider taking time tomorrow to meet briefly with these women to hear their views on this very important question?


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: Well, Mr. Speaker, I have already met briefly with some of these women on my last trip to Vancouver.


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh!


Gerald William Baldwin: Are those the women who are coming here now?


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: It was out in the open, Mr. Speaker, at the airport.


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh!


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: Does that make it worse?


Gerald William Baldwin: As long as it was not under
cover.
Inquiries of the Ministry


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: However, I cannot meet them tomorrow as they suggest. There are procedures whereby it is possible for me to meet groups from time to time who come to make representations to cabinet. Such a meeting has to be arranged in advance on a date convenient to all parties. Tomorrow, as the House knows, is the eve of my departure for an extended absence from Parliament, and I shall be too busy with other things. I cannot meet them.


John Edward Broadbent: Mr. Speaker, I fully understand the Prime Minister's reasons, but in view of the seriousness of the question I wonder whether he might consider delegating another minister who might be available tomorrow to meet with these women and have a more cordial discussion with them than the one the Prime Minister had?


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: Mr. Speaker, I do not know on what basis the member says that my meeting with them was not cordial and comprehensive. We did discuss, although briefly, the subject matter and did discuss the law and the possible remedies. I told them the position of the government, that we had amended the law in respect of abortion during the recent session and that we did not intend to make any further amendment at the present time. I shall see whether any minister is available, but I must warn the House and the people who wish to have such meetings that they cannot just set a date themselves and expect us to meet them automatically. There would be too many meetings with groups all the time. That is the reason we set appointments with people or groups who want to meet with the cabinet or individual ministers. But the date must be set in agreement with both parties.



INDIAN AFFAIRS


Gerald William Baldwin: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development. Is the minister able to assure the House that he will have discussions with the new government of Quebec concerning the position of the Eskimo and native peoples of northern Quebec, and in particular will he assure the House that he will give the strongest possible consideration to referring to the appropriate commission dealing with Indian treaty rights the claim of these people, as set out in the transcript of the proceedings taken in the
May 8, 1970

Inquiries of the Ministry north, that they should receive some benefit, having regard to the fact that treaties were not executed, in regard to the rights of the people concerning the land and natural resources of northern Quebec?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: Mr. Speaker, as soon as the new cabinet is set up, I shall enter into talks with the new minister responsible for matters concerning the Indians and the Eskimos of New Quebec. I hope we shall be able to find a solution acceptable to all those concerned.


Gerald William Baldwin: Would the minister please reply to the last part of my question? I asked him for an assurance that the rights of these native peoples of northern Quebec would be considered in light of their contention that there has never been any treaty with respect to natural resources and lands, that their claims to their property have never been acknowledged and that some consideration is coming to them, as they have claimed at the meetings which have been held.


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: Mr. Speaker, the Indian Claims Commissioner has been appointed by the government. He is directly responsible to the cabinet and particularly to the Prime Minister rather than to me. As for those who have claims to lodge they can apply to the Commissioner who will decide whether he will hear them or not.



AIR TRANSPORT


Mr. Louis-Roland Comeau (South Western Nova):: I have a question for the Acting Minister of Transport. Although it is a parochial question, it is quite urgent. I wish to ask the acting minister whether the rumours circulating in Yarmouth that the instrument landing service at the airport will be moved to Charlottetown will be stopped after the P.E.I. election next Monday?


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. The hon.
member knows that he cannot ask the minister to confirm or deny a rumour, even if it relates to a parochial matter.
[Mr. Baldwin.)



SOCIAL SECURITY


Mr. Stanley Knowles (Winnipeg North Centre):: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a question to the Prime Minister. Two weeks ago today I asked the right hon. gentleman if he would do his best to expedite the publication of the white paper on social security. His answer was: "Yes, Mr. Speaker". I wonder whether the Prime Minister can report on what success he has had in connection with this matter?


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: I made sure, and I will make sure, that the cabinet committee dealing with this subject will continue dealing with it with all due diligence.


Stanley Howard Knowles: Could we have an assurance that the white paper will be tabled before we rise for the summer recess?


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: No, Mr. Speaker. I understand the member's impatience, but we prefer to take the time that is needed to do the job on hand.


Mr. Speaker:: Orders of the day.



GOVERNMENT ORDERS


Steve Eugene Paproski: That this House, regretting the government's failure to adopt just employment and fiscal policies which would permit our young people to contribute to national productivity and to their own economic independence, thereby encouraging both pride of country and confidence in our institutions, calls upon the government to take immediate and effective steps to help students at all levels to find and develop employment.
He said: I need not remind the House of the seriousness of the situation regarding summer employment for students of post secondary institutions in this country. Only the other day, the Minister of Manpower and Immigration (Mr. MacEachen) underscored the seriousness of the situation when he paraded a number of statistics to impress us with the effectiveness of his department in dealing with the problem.
Unfortunately, his statement did not impress, and I can only conclude that again
May 8. 1970	COMMONS
we have evidence of the government shovelling a problem of considerable magnitude under the rug. The end product of government action or lack of action is to be the misery of thousands of young people walking the streets this summer looking in vain for work. I do not expect that the arrogant and contemptuous front row over there will appreciate what this means. The minister said that approximately 641,000 students may be seeking employment this summer-an increase of 60,000 over last year. I have noticed a great tendency on the part of government ministers to deal with statistics which are completely meaningless unless we can relate them to the human factor.
So, let us think about that figure of 641,000 for a moment. It slides off the tongue easily enough, but not so easily when we remind ourselves that this is considerably more people than are to be found in, say, the province of New Brunswick or in Canada's third largest city, Vancouver. Perhaps this fact adds perspective to the problem. I refer to a problem, but that is probably an understatement. This country has a crisis on its hands. Perhaps that is of no great concern to a government whose front row financiers say they can live on $30 a week or who can still sleep at night when there is a national unemployment rate of nearly 7 per cent and three times that rate in many despairing regions of Canada. It may well be that the government would like to see more students adding to the ranks of the unemployed. After all, one must admit that these additions to the statistics would look mighty impressive in the government's campaign against inflation.
But such thoughts might be interpreted as being somewhat facetious, and it is certainly not my intention to make light of such a grave situation as that facing the youth of Canada today. Thousands upon thousands of students throughout this country are already looking for jobs, and thousands upon thousands of them are already finding that there are no jobs. It is a scandalous situation, contributing to the many problems of our present day society and retarding efforts that have been made in recent times to bridge the so-called generation gap.
The greatest failure of this government is lack of imagination. We are running this country as if it were a rummage counter at a church bazaar. Surely, it is time for Canada to wake up and get in the swim. I am concerned about the lack of policy and lack of planning for young people. We would like our
DEBATES	6743
Student Summer Employment young people to take pride in our country, but many are fast losing confidence and becoming disenchanted. In these days of militant protests, I see ahead of us troubles that can be offset only by strong, imaginative steps by this government. There are many young people seeking pegs on which to hang protests, and history has shown that unemployment may be tolerated for a short time by some but it cannot be tolerated for a long time by all.
I find it hard to believe, when I view the government's attitude and action in respect of student employment, that we are indeed living in the year 1970. Nothing has changed over the years. Correction, Mr. Speaker, the number of those students seeking employment has increased substantially and the number of available jobs has decreased because of automation and because of the government's cold, deliberate plan to slow down the economy at the cost of wrecking lives and families. Remember, 641,000 students looking for three months work is the equivalent of another 150,000 persons looking for year round work.
So, we must ask the question: does the government care? I do not seek a smart alec reply from the government benches because we know already that they do not care about the unemployed, the senior citizens on fixed income, and many others who are fast finding that they are the expendable, front line troops in the fight against inflation.


Gerald William Baldwin: No compassion, no heart.
[DOT] (12:10 p.m.)


Steve Eugene Paproski: I charge that the government does not care. I charge that the government is going to muddle its way through this situation as it did last year and the year before that. Oh, yes, it is all very well for government to trade off its usual, dreary statistics that have the familiar ring of telling only half the story.
The 1969 summer employment survey of post-secondary students, carried out by the Department of Manpower, tells us that 95 per cent of male students and 90 per cent of female students who sought summer employment actually found jobs. But I can eat and digest my hat more easily than I can swallow these statistics. A couple of weeks' work in an amusement park or picking berries is not what I regard as summer employment and I know, after speaking to a goodly number of students, that this was their lot last year.
Many students who managed to find employment last year did not work for as
May 8, 1970

Student Summer Employment long as they would have liked. And when you consider that many are working to try to pay their way through university, I would guess that many had to drop out because they were not able to make enough to pay for their books, let alone their tuition fees. We have heard the minister's grand plan to help find employment for students, but I would say it is still too little and too late. It is time we stopped looking at this as a problem that raises its ugly head every year, and regarded it as a problem we have to live with and to beat. In short, it is about time we engaged in some long-term thinking and planning, not just sticking our fingers in the dyke hoping the tide will go down.
The government should stop looking in its rearview mirror as it tackles this problem because that reflects only past mistakes, past failures. Where, in 1970, is the imagination and the creativity that helped make Canada in the first place? If the government had more initiative and spunk, we might not have to live with such grave issues as this. Why do we still have to accept this summer bottleneck of job seeking and heartache? Has the government given consideration or has it given any direction to the provinces that the trimester system, that is, a year-round operation, might be applied to the universities and schools across Canada?
As far as I know, the trimester system is in operation at two Canadian universities, Simon Fraser University in Burnaby, and Guelph University. Students at Simon Fraser who do not wish to help flood the summer job market have the opportunity to attend university and to work toward a full compliment of credits. It means they can take the fall semester off from their studies to find work, or it means they can continue their studies through the fall and take off in the spring. Certainly, the trimester system has its problems, and most of them because society is not yet geared to accept it. But our society is moving at an incredibly fast rate, and all praise to these universities for helping to set the pace. I only wish we could say the same for the government.
Perhaps we should jump on this trimester bandwagon, particularly today when we are faced with such grave problems in finding jobs for the regular labour force, when many schools and universities are bursting at the seams through spiralling enrollments, and also when more people are moving toward annual holidays at times of the year other than summer. Should not the federal govern-

ment really get its feet wet in dealing with these questions rather than shifting from one foot to the other and saying, "These things are the affairs of the provinces"? That may well be, Mr. Speaker, but I cannot think of a province that would not be grateful for or receptive to positive suggestions that would help overcome some of their problems.
There are many who say that students should receive salaries from the government-you might say a form of guaranteed income. I do not dismiss this idea and I would like to see it explored, but there are other avenues that must also be explored. Should we not be thinking of creating greater government incentives for students hard put to finance their way through university? Where are the scholarship and bursary opportunities that can make the difference between living and plain existing for a good many of the young people who cannot afford to pay their way through university?
Students may claim their fees as a deduction on their income tax returns, but not the parent who pays the tuition fees for his son or daughter. Surely, some of these parents can afford it; on the other hand, many deprive themselves so that their children can benefit. Lack of job opportunities will increase the burden for many parents. I would like to see the government give consideration to every idea that could alleviate a growing problem. For instance, there may be merit in using our young people to help open this vast country of ours and, at the same time, help give all young people an equal chance of higher educational opportunities.
You may accuse me of being an idealist but I would ask you to give serious consideration to a plan that would have our young men and women working to build new roads, new cities, new hospitals, new clinics, and new research facilities, all for the price of a university education.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Steve Eugene Paproski: Let them work for this country on a voluntary basis. For every six months work, whether it be helping to open the great northlands or whether it be acting as anti-pollution agents in the cities and on the waterways, let Canada give them a year's free university or vocational school training. Two years work for Canada would give them four years free university and a healthy regard for the new Canada they have helped to build. I would be happy to discuss this matter with anyone who is interested. I
May 8, 1970	COMMONS
believe in the youth of Canada, and I believe Canada should play fair with them and give them an important part to play in shaping our future.
My motion calls upon the government to take immediate and effective steps to help students at all levels to find and develop employment. I simply ask that the government use some imagination in creating employment opportunities or providing incentives to the young people so that they can have a stake in the future of this land, their land.


Mr. McBride:: Before the hon. member resumes his seat, would he accept a question?


Steve Eugene Paproski: I don't think we have too much time today, Mr. Speaker.


Lorne Edmund Nystrom: Mr. Speaker, within a few brief minutes I wish to point out a number of problems that students are facing in their efforts to find employment this summer, and to offer the government a number of possible solutions it might investigate to see whether or not some of these ideas can be initiated.
First of all, student unemployment this summer will reach a chronic level. Statistics tell us that about 640,000 students expect to be looking for jobs this year. To begin with, that is 60,000 more than in 1969. We also learn from government releases and press stories that the federal government is "trying to hold the line" on hiring students to do work for it in 1970, and that probably most provincial governments will be offering fewer jobs to students this year than last year. The situation faced by university students means, for many of them, the difference between continuing their studies and having to drop out of university. This has caused many of them a great deal of frustration. The problem has reached chronic proportions in many parts of the country.
During the last few days and weeks, I have phoned a number of university students across the country and I have discovered, particularly in some of the regionally depressed areas, that students will have a real problem finding jobs this summer. As a matter of fact they will be worse off this year than they were in 1969. In general, Mr. Speaker, I think that the government, and in particular the Department of Manpower, are a bit optimistic when they talk about all students having an opportunity to find work this summer. I do not think this is going to be the case at all.
DEBATES	6745
Student Summer Employment
[DOT] (12:20 p.m.)
The first thing we must look at is over-all unemployment. The difficulty students find in obtaining work is only a natural by-product of total unemployment in Canada and of the government's entire economic and financial policies. The latest unemployment figures show that 6.7 per cent of the Canadian work force is unemployed today. When the government says that in order to defeat inflation we must tolerate a certain level of unemployment, this makes it very difficult for students to obtain jobs for the coming summer. The entire economy is affected and, as the Prime Minister (Mr. Trudeau) has said, unemployment is just one of the unfortunate consequences of fighting inflation.
It turns out that young people, and the unemployed in general, happen to be this unfortunate consequence. This is one of the things we must change, not only for students but for all the unemployed in this country.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Lorne Edmund Nystrom: When this type of financial policy is being pursued by the government there is a general hiring freeze in most industry and business across the nation. In my own province, many people who formerly hired two or three students will not do so this summer because they are not optimistic about business for the next year. This is something that affects the whole student employment picture across the country.
The second thing that I want to point out to the minister through you, Mr. Speaker, is the special problems in different areas of the country. Here, I emphasize in particular the Maritimes, rural Quebec and the Prairies. Perhaps the best example is the general picture in the province of Saskatchewan. From talking to university students and personnel in the universities, in Saskatchewan, I know that this year they are having a real problem in finding jobs that will give them enough money to continue studies in the fall. There is a problem here because of the over-all economic situation in the province and because of the slow-down in the agricultural sector which is affecting everyone in the province. We must do something to revitalize the economy of some regional areas if we want to tackle the whole problem of unemployment. If we do not realize this, we are only tinkering with the matter and fooling ourselves. The government must co-ordinate its programs as much as possible with provincial governments in all
May 8, 1970

Student Summer Employment areas if it is to capitalize fully on employing students in the various positions that are available.
I should like to suggest that the government consider the possibility of moving students out of some areas, such as the prairies, the maritimes and rural Quebec, into areas that may have summer employment available for students. Some people have suggested that tobacco farms in Ontario, orchards and places like that, may have extra jobs. Maybe students could be moved from areas without employment into these areas. Of course this would require the co-operation of the federal and provincial governments, but it is one thing that might be given serious consideration.
Another point is that even if a student has a job, that does not necessarily mean it will provide him with enough money to return to school. The minister said that last summer about 93 per cent of students requiring and desiring summer employment were able to obtain it. I think perhaps half of these people had what they considered adequate employment for the summer. Many were only employed for two or two and a half months on a part-time basis; some were only employed for a few weeks and others had low-paying jobs.
Another problem which is often overlooked in the whole field of summer employment for students is that women once again are on the short end of the stick. They do not have the same opportunities as men. They cannot drive a truck, work in construction or work in the oil fields. They have a special problem and it must be faced. We must make a concerted effort to find summer jobs for women students, jobs that will provide them with enough money to go back to university in the fall. To substantiate my argument, I should like to quote a paragraph from a report that came from the office of the Minister of Manpower and Immigration (Mr. MacEachen) on March 23, 1970. Page 2 of the report reads:
The detailed study indicates a distinct disparity between earnings of male and female students. Male students, for example, earned an average $1,110, while female students earned only $620.
As you can see, that is about half as much as the male students earn on the average for the summer. The report continues:
In consequence males saved more. Male students managed to save an average of $520, while girl students saved $300.
If you were to research the number of males and females who obtained work, I
[Mr. Nystrom.l
think you would find that the men have more chance for jobs than the women. This is only one of the many areas which the government must examine in order to find a solution. As you can see, Mr. Speaker, the problem of student unemployment is chronic. I think we have to begin to look for new solutions, to initiate new plans that will deal with that problem as well as the problem of unemployment in general.
At this time I should like to offer two or three suggestions for long and short term plans to the government. The first thing I should like to suggest, and this does not refer only to the Department of Manpower and Immigration but includes the government in general, is that we undertake a massive construction program this summer to build houses in cities where they are needed, to build schools and hospitals. These things are needed in Canada, and if a massive construction program were initiated it would employ not only the tens of thousands of students needing summer employment, but also unemployed people in the regular work force. These people must be given an opportunity to get into the employment market, to make a few dollars and make a contribution to society. This type of crash program would stimulate the entire economy. It would stimulate cities, would provide better housing, better schools and more hospitals across the country. We must seriously consider this type of project.
So far the government's fight against inflation has produced results which are not what they hoped. It is time the government realized that a new approach is needed. If it does not, more and more people will be unemployed and we will have greater problems involving the students and the regular work force.
Next, I think the government should consider starting some student work study program. Something like this would enable students to do practical work in the community whilst studying in post-secondary institutions. One example is Frontier College, and I want to take a minute to commend the work it has done in the past. I should like also to call upon the government to give Frontier College a grant, extra money to employ students this summer. They could do some social reconstruction work in areas where it is needed. This is one example of the many programs in the whole field of social development that could be pursued by the government. In strict economic terms, I am sure financial minds would say that this is a very important
May 8, 1970	COMMONS
investment. We must have more work study programs like this which would enable students to get a job but not compete with the regular work force.
I have in mind projects like Frontier College, but they could also do work on pollution control, conservation or reforestation. They could work in community plans and organizations. These things would fit in very nicely with the university and post-secondary programs that the students are taking at school, and would employ thousands of people in the summer. Students could be used on many research projects this summer which would not interfere with the regular work force. This is just one of the many things that could and should be done if we are to tackle the student unemployment problem in a positive way.
Because of the general unemployment picture in Canada this year, Mr. Speaker, I suggest that the government begin some kind of student work study program that would put students to work and allow them to make a real contribution to society. Of course, if that were done our programs would have more relevance for students and their opportunities for work.
[DOT] (12:30 p.m.)
I suggest that we can do this. We have the money in this country, the resources and the technology. I do not see why we should not combine all these factors and create a really good program which would benefit not only the students but the people of this country in general. I know if a war broke out tomorrow we would have money for all sorts of new programs. We could afford to put our people in uniform. Why could we not do something similar on a social level, domestically in Canada today? If we are to do good things on a long term basis, we must begin by doing some of them immediately.
In any long term approach, the first thing we must do is reduce the number of students who are seeking jobs at any one particular time. Of course, there is a problem when too many students come on the labour market at one time. We might solve the difficulty by staggering the school year, by asking the universities to set up a trimester system and by making sure the government is involved in student work study programs. If some students teach while others go to university, that would take a great deal of pressure off the labour market. Fewer students on the market would enable those looking for work in the
DEBATES	6747
Student Summer Employment summer to gain employment and conditions would be much easier for the average working man looking for work.
In conjunction with this we must, as part of our long term solution, think of supporting in some way those who go to university or institutions of post secondary education. As a society, we must be willing to provide the amount of money that is required in order that students may be allowed to attend universities. Post secondary education must be available to students regardless of financial or social barriers. I think it is of fundamental importance that we help students. A summer job should not be crucial in a student's decision to continue university or other studies. We must make more money available through loans and bursaries. We must encourage provincial governments to eliminate tuition fees and, eventually, provide living allowances to enable students to pursue the studies they want to pursue.
Those are only some of the things that ought to be done on a long term basis. As more and more students enrol at universities and post secondary educational institutions, the summer employment picture for students will become worse each year. Every year we encounter the same problems and we must work out long term solutions. We must look closely at our priorities in education. We must institute student work study programs which will enable students to become involved in a more meaningful way during summer months with society; their earnings would enable them to continue their university studies, and thus benefit society in general. If we could remove more students from the labour market, those looking for regular jobs would not face so much competition.
Before sitting down, may I say something about the entire unemployment picture that affects young people? The latest statistics relating to unemployment in Canada show that about 40 per cent of the unemployed are under the age of 25. This is something about which we ought to be very much concerned. Many of these young people under 25 who are unemployed are without skills. They need to participate in special training programs, and they must be given opportunities. Not only are people without skills unemployed, but university graduates and teachers are finding great difficulty in obtaining employment this year. Many of these people have families and many of these people need help if they are not to be pushed down into the vicious cycle of poverty.
May 8, 1970

Student Summer Employment
In this country we promise our young people many things, through television, through the theatre, through magazines and by the example of our way of life. Young people who expect much on stepping out into the world are disappointed when unemployment slaps them in the face, and they find that many of the promises are not fulfilled. It is very important for us to realize the extent of the problem facing young people. As I say, financial considerations should not determine whether young people obtain a university education. Many of them have families; many have great hopes and expectations from Canada, and many of them are threatened with poverty at this time. As a result, many of our young people are becoming frustrated not only with the type of government we have, but with the type of life they can live in this society. Many become dropouts, thus adding to the fund of alienation to be found among young people. This, in turn, contributes to the unrest we have in Canada, the type of unrest evident all across the western world. We must make a real effort to understand our young people, to understand their priorities and their needs. We must communicate with them, because communication is part and parcel of the entire problem in this area that we are discussing. We must try to involve young people in Canadian society and allow them to do many of the things they want to do.
There is too great a tendency in Canada, as there is in the western world and the United States in particular, to just condemn young people for being restless and for participating in demonstrations and protests of one sort and another. We do not try to understand what is actually bothering them and what they want. I think we ought to begin by reorienting ourselves and setting new priorities, and we must do this as soon as possible. We must not adopt the attitude that has been adopted by the vice-president of the United States. He has called student demonstrators "bums". He says, "they are really just bums". That sort of attitude only makes the situation worse.
The entire problem in this field merits the immediate attention of the minister. He will not solve anything over night, especially if he adopts a piecemeal approach. I, therefore, suggest that we must institute a crash program to employ students across the country. We must begin constructing houses, hospitals and schools so that students may be employed for the summer, as well as other working
[Mr. Nystrom.l
people of this country. We must also begin instituting student work study programs which would allow students to contribute to the well-being of society as well as to their own well-being. We must also take into account the many regional problems and difficulties being faced in the Prairies, in Quebec and in the Maritimes, because students in those areas may be unable to find summer employment opportunities. Even if they find jobs, they may be only part time jobs. So, I appeal to the minister to outline to us, when he replies later today, some of the new approaches that will be used in the solution of these problems that affect not only central Canada but all Canada.


Mr. Deputy Speaker:: Order, please. The hon. member's time has expired, but I see that he has concluded his remarks.
[DOT] (12:40 p.m.)


Mr. Rene Matte (Champlain):: Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member who has proposed this motion as it offers us the opportunity to discuss the urgent problem of employment and particularly of student employment.
We hear more and more about the generation gap. Many among us tend to minimize this serious problem. We hear the usual commonplaces: The young have to sow their wild oats. We were like them at their age. It is the teen-age crisis. They will finally settle down and say "enough of this nonsense".
We must admit that a great number of young people today are irresponsible, particularly, and this is paradoxical, in our colleges and universities. There is no use deluding ourselves: the leaders of yesterday as well as those of today have for a great number of years sowed the seed of dissatisfaction and anarchy if not of revolt. If no change is made in the very near future, we shall reap the bitter fruit of such seed.
Mr. Speaker, I may sound pessimistic, but I am sincerely trying to help the government prevent a catastrophe. And I come to the urgent need there is of finding work for thousands of students, not only during the holidays, but particularly when they come on the labour market. If we do not succeed in finding a summer job for one student in ten, what will happen when they all have completed their studies?
The government must therefore make every possible effort to find a reasonable solution
May 8, 1970	COMMONS
and, at this point, I take the liberty of repeating the proposals of the Ralliement creditiste. We recognize the government's willingness to look for solutions, but we also find that such willingness is not enough. Problems are only shifted. Yet, if partisanship could be put aside, the Creditiste solution would perhaps seem like the only cure.
Is it possible that such a wealthy country as Canada has to face such difficulties? Immensely rich, sparsely populated, ready to be developed, what does it lack? Raw materials? One would have to be unaware of the extraordinary wealth of our subsoil, our inexhaustible forests, our most fertile lands and our numerous rivers. Canada is one of the richest, if not the richest country in the world. Is there not enough manpower? That question should be directed to the unemployed and to the people on social welfare. But what is missing then?
As we have been saying over and over again for 35 years, credit should be released in Canada. It is ridiculous to claim that there is no money to develop all materially feasible projects, it would be just as much so to suggest that beavers might stop building dams. Are we then less intelligent than beavers? No. Let us grow up. It is no longer possible to throw dust in the eyes of the people.
I should now like to prove how the people are fooled sometimes. Here is part of a clarificafion made by Mr. Marcel Faribault and published in be Devoir of 7 May, 1970. I quote:
Right after the election-
That is, Quebec's provincial election,
-my comments would not add much to what you have read, seen or heard. I only want to underline that the firm Lafferty-Harwood, so-called investment consultants, by recommending the transfer of securities outside the province, lay itself open to ridicule. When I learned about it on my departure for Europe at Montreal airport on the evening of April 3, I just had time to advise the Montreal Stock market by telegram that this recommendation was stupid, hysterical and partial, and that those responsible should be suspended immediately. On my return last Monday, I was amazed to find that the advice given by those gentlemen had been followed and that the English newspapers had waited almost one month- until the eve of the election-to denounce that operation. This was further evidence that it was or had become a partisan scheming designed to spread confusion, uncertainty and fear among the people. I condemn such methods which I consider dishonest.
But the recommendation was especially stupid, because it only meant the transfer of paper. Well, what is involved? Bank deposits, share and bond certificates. But a bank deposit is the right to sign
DEBATES	6749
Student Summer Employment Cheques and to receive notes, in other words, to make or to be in a position to make payments. At the time it was possible to receive gold from a bank, the transfer or even the deposit of gold would have made sense. Nowadays, those transfers of deposits are sheer nonsense.
I wanted, when I quoted that article, to explain how ridiculous it is to suggest there is a shortage of money. It is as ridiculous as to have Quebecers believe in a flight of capital when tons of paper are transferred to Ontario in Brink's trucks.
We therefore suggest the following solution: We ask the government to authorize the Bank of Canada to grant low interest loans to the companies willing to invest so as to create jobs. Many employers would need additional manpower, but they are unable to pay adequate salaries. Therefore, the government might help them. The capacity for production and consumers' needs exist, the only thing missing is an adequate purchasing power.
Young people are quite willing to work for the welfare of all Canadian citizens by increasing the production, in order to contribute to raise the standard of living. In this way, everyone would enjoy more comfort which is normally what everyone should be entitled to.
Therefore, we are in favour not of austerity, but of generosity. Let the government loosen its purse-strings and promote full employment for all students, without fear of spending too much money.
[DOT] (12:50 p.m.)
Mr. Speaker, to my knowledge, highways, buildings, construction and engineering works are not made with money but with raw material, labour and talent. I say to those who maintain the contrary that I have never travelled in my life on a highway paved with money, and have never seen anywhere $10, $20, or $50 bills or even cheques piled up one on top of the other. To my knowledge, a highway is made up of stone, gravel, concrete or asphalt. I do not see any money in there. If we have all those materials and apart from that the necessary labour to build and thousands of unemployed students, what else do we need to carry out those works for the benefit of all Canadians? The only thing lacking is credit.
And that is the reason why we have repeated for years that if money is the only thing needed, why wait longer to issue it?	:
6750	COMMONS
Student Summer Employment
If they finally understand the need of using money properly, putting it at the service of the Citizens instead of putting the citizens at the service of money, we shall in the end solve the numerous problems we have to face every day.
The Ralliement creditiste is always ready to co-operate in any worthy project. Thus the whole population would be grateful to the government and to Parliament if they decided at last to consider in a realistic way the possibility of changing what is really at the base of all our problems, of all our evils, namely the economic system and the financial system, a change we refer to as monetary reform.
Mr. Speaker, I urge the government to consider that aspect of the problem and to stop saying all the time how sorry they are not to be able to do more, because of the lack of money. Credit could be issued on the basis of pur real credit which is worth billions of dollars.
Why not consider seriously making financially possible what can physically be achieved? Then no student would be without work, unemployment would be reduced to the strict minimum, and even Canadians on social welfare could at long last earn their living in dignity. Such an achievement would bring peace to our country, and throughout the world since, through our example, we would encourage other countries to imitate us.


Mr. Roch La Salle (Jolieiie):: Mr. Speaker, in my turn and, as objectively as possible, I should like to express my views on the topic now being discussed.
Could a more judicious topic have been chosen at this time of the year? Allow me to congratulate those who had the wonderful idea of giving all hon. members the opportunity to discuss this topic, and to invite the government to exert ever greater efforts with a view to allowing the young people to gain their freedom in an important field, that of labour.
Official statistical data prove that a record number of young people are looking for work this summer. We, members of the opposition, see no cause for concern in the figures on student unemployment, in view of the fact that the situation is only temporary.
Unfortunately, I am afraid that this is all the government is doing to solve the problem of our students.
They indulge in futile rhetorics but never manage to bring about any truly efficient results. In a society like ours it is unthinkable

DEBATES	May 8. 1970
that we should deny our youths the opportunity to work and to help in some active way to promote the Canadian community.
The students are, in my opinion, an indispensable factor in the social and economic development of the country. The present tax policy is partly responsible for the difficult circumstances now prevailing in Canada.
The anti-inflationist measures applied by the government are also, to blame, to a certain extent, for the increase in the unemployment rate.
May I be allowed to express my concern about some of the proposed answers. We certainly do appreciate the merits of the publicity campaign aimed at calling the attention of the public to the needs of our students. We welcome the co-operation volunteered by the various intermediary bodies and by private enterprise in order to improve the situation.
We would like however more attention to be paid to the students from the deprived sectors of our population.
Under the present circumstances it would seem to be only fair to give priority to the students whose parents are in the low income bracket. It is always easier for a student coming from an affluent environment to make his way successfully in society.
If the government fails to help the have-nots, nobody will do it. We should have a fairer distribution between the students from the great industrial urban centers and those from the poorer areas. For the latter, the openings are practically nil. We therefore suggest to the government to invest money in pilot projects, in order to allow students to take part in the economic expansion of the community.
In our opinion, there is no other choice for the administration. New jobs must be created, or subsidies to education will have to be increased.
A few years back, a university chancellor stated that education is no longer a luxury. Now, in this era of specialization, it has become a necessity. No young person should be deprived of the sacred right to education, for lack of financial means. Even in the midst of an austerity period, one must remember that the student of today is the pillar of tom-morrow's society.
The climate of insecurity and uncertainty promoted by the present policy can have but deplorable effects on the faith of the young people in the future of this country. If noth-
May 8, 1970	COMMONS
ing succeeds in improving their lot, we will not be able to prevent them from protesting vigorously and denouncing strongly and firmly the failure of our institutions, because we know that they will be right.
By its attitude, arrogant at times, by the enactment of inadequate legislation, is the government trying to induce in some groups of youngsters a reaction which will be reflected in demonstrations and perhaps violence? I hope not!
It is not all to project the image of a just society; this projection must also be translated into facts, by a greater understanding of the problems with which the young generation is concerned.
I will take advantage of this day devoted to the opposition, while this serious subject is examined, to invite all members to co-operate and to offer excellent suggestions both to the responsible minister and to the government. This co-operation is absolutely necessary. In the last resort, the government will have to be forced to act, if that becomes necessary.
Mr. Speaker, I believe that bitter and cutting remarks about some government members, whether justified or not, will not serve the best interests of Canada.
I am not one of those who might wish to limit themselves to such remarks or make charges that are, in the end, useless. I believe rather that the interests of the Canadian people have considerable precedence over those of a political party.
I must recognize the efforts presently made by the government on this matter. It is altogether too easy, for an opposition member or anyone else, to say that a government remains idle. The question is whether it could do better or more.
In the circumstances, with close and genuine co-operation from all hon. members, we shall be able to do better and more.
For instance, I note that the federal government, in the province of Quebec, will create some 2,000 jobs within the armed forces. And it is also said that most of the 150,000 Quebec students will get work this summer.
However, we know that about 60 per cent of them will be unemployed.


Mr. Deputy Speaker:: Order, please. The hon. member may want to call it one o'clock. It being one o'clock, I do now leave the Chair until 2 p.m.
At one o'clock the House took recess.
DEBATES	6751
Student Summer Employment AFTER RECESS
The House resumed at 2 p.m.


Roch La Salle: Mr. Speaker, I hope that my hon. friends will applaud me as strongly when I complete my remarks as they are doing now.
I admit that extraordinary efforts are being made, particularly in my area, in order to solve the problem. Service clubs, businessmen and spokesmen for industry are showing commendable interest in this issue, and their activities are co-ordinated of course-and I say this with satisfaction-by the Canada Manpower Centre.
Again I urge all members, who are already making magnificent efforts in my province and elsewhere in the country, to contribute still more if possible in order to fulfill the hopes of our youths who are still waiting.
These young people are expecting much from us. Unfortunately, we have too often deceived them with political partisanship and pettiness. They are right when they expect from this House an objective opposition and an enlightened government. Prompted by those feelings, we shall be able to adopt proper measures for the greater benefit of the young people who are relying on those who represent them.
The disenchantment experienced by young people was creating an atmosphere of dissent. Yet, we all know how beneficial it would be to find them decent occupations for the holidays and to get them ready for constructive tasks instead of destruction.
It is unthinkable that young people, at one moment, should waste their time and be a nuisance to those who paid such a high price for our institutions and I think that it is up to us to find solutions to this problem.
In my opinion, if each student could earn a certain amount of money during the holidays, it would be at least as valuable as a scholarship or loans plan, which is very important when you think of the efforts of the government to provide these youths with scholarships and loans.
If during this summer, these young people could find satisfying jobs, it would allow them, with self-satisfaction and pride, to show their elders that they are able to do their work, and meet financial commitments entered into in order to be able to continue their studies.
6752	COMMONS
Student Summer Employment
I believe it is not only normal but fair that each hon. member should strive to find solutions for this problem. Of course, I recognize the efficiency of the Department of Regional Economic Expansion which spends millions to establish industries, but I wonder whether it has not been overlooked that many existing industries are losing ground and facing great difficulties as a result of imports of foreign products, etc.
I wonder whether there should not be an effort to revitalize these industries which furnished a livelihood to thousands of workers in Canada.
In my view this would be less costly and quicker if one considers a short term policy. It is desirable that the Department of Regional Economic Expansion should continue to dispose of considerable amounts of money for investments and for the creation of new industries.
We should at first examine carefully the possibility of giving our industries the means to go on by granting to them certain services in order to increase their profit-earning capacity.
I would like to invite the minister and the cabinet to give particular consideration to the creation of youth centers, which would imply the creation of jobs for various instructors.
What kind of education will we be able to give to the young people who need it? What kind of education should they have in our opinion? Those youth centers now under provincial jurisdiction should be established with the co-operation of provinces. Indeed, no province would object to the federal government giving out some money for the building of such centers.
I am sure we all wish for a bright future for our children. We shall succeed when we are able to speak in this House as responsible men and not as politicians.
When political capital-seeking is no longer put ahead of the common good, we shall have taken a big step ahead. Once again, I ask all hon. members not to spare any effort so that the young might rightly believe that the future is theirs.
[DOT] (2:10 p.m.)
I therefore urge hon. members to give some thought to those words I read recently, and I quote:
To live and to act are the only ways of identifying oneself with the universe. The modern young man finds in total action his full satisfaction as

DEBATES	May 8, 1970
a man, namely to be alive in the first place, Acting is therefore the aim in life, acting to start using all his energies, to identify oneself with all that exists, acting to produce.
Reading these lines from time to time could only improve the quality of the members of this House and that of the system in which we live to the great benefit of the people and mainly of the young people who expect quite a lot from us.


Mr. Grant Deachman (Vancouver Quadra):: Mr. Speaker, the motion introduced by the hon. member for Edmonton Centre (Mr. Pa-proski) affords the House an opportunity to discuss a subject which is of intimate interest to members who have universities and other institutions of higher learning in their constituencies. As the member for Vancouver Quadra it is my honour to represent the University of British Columbia in this House. That university now has 21,000 students in regular courses throughout the wintertime.
It is interesting to note that at present in Canada there are about 294,000 students in regular courses at universities and diploma institutions of higher learning, and an additional 320,000 undertaking part-time courses during winter, leading to degrees or diplomas. If you convert those figures to full-time equivalents, the total number in winter programs, seeking degrees and diplomas, is over 328,000. By 1975 or 1976, this number will have gone up to 632,000, according to a recent projection made by the DBS. In other words, about one-third million students are seeking degrees or diplomas, and by 1975 or 1976 two-thirds million students will be seeking degrees and diplomas in Canadian universities.
For the most part, students do not come from wealthy homes which can support them in university throughout the year. For the most part, students come from workingmen's families, from families that have never had a university student in them previously. It is not a question of a professional father sending his son or daughter to university but a question of the student himself helping to earn the money to pay for fees, board and room, and books. These students are able to do this by working in the summertime, and occasionally by getting a little work during the winter. A recent survey at UBC showed that about 86 per cent of its students worked last summer. From this we can see that there are almost 300,000 students across the country who must have some kind of employment if
May 8, 1970	COMMONS
they are to continue their university education, and by 1975 or 1976 some 600,000 students will need employment.
When I checked today by telephone with the University of British Columbia, I was told that there are 3,600 students, who are looking for summer jobs, registered with the university employment service. Most of the students made applications for jobs long ago, but 3,600 Students are still looking for jobs at this late date.
Let us take a look at what a student must earn during the summer. The UBC survey indicates that at that university-it may be a little more expensive there than at some other universities-the barest minimum a student must have is $1,700 or $1,800 for the university year. If students are taking professional courses such as engineering, medicine and the like, where fees, books and equipment costs are higher, they need considerably more than that. The student living at the rock bottom minimum must have $460 for fees, $800 or $900 for residence on campus, including board and room, plus $150 for books. On top of that, he needs money for clothing and transportation. What can a student earn in the summertime? I am told that at the University of B.C. the average earned by women students in summer is $600, and the average earned by men students is about $1,300. I am quite sure that the Royal Commission on the Status of Women has done some studies in this field and will have something to say about the disparity between the $600 that a woman student can earn and the $1,300 that a man student can earn.
[DOT] (2:20 p.m.)
As the student population increases, as the number registered with employment services increases, as we look at the well known figures which indicate what students must have in order to attend university, and as we look at the well known figures which indicate what they can earn, we see that the prospect for young students in Canada, hoping to get through university on their own earnings, is hot very heartening. This debate this afternoon, therefore, is a very pertinent one and one that is very significant in many homes in Canada today. What can be done about it? I will listen to this debate today with interest, and I hope that many ideas will be projected from the speeches of members here from which some actual steps can be taken to improve the situation because I do not think it is the reluctance of government at the fed-22375-10
DEBATES	6753
Student Summer Employment eral, provincial or city levels that prevents them from tackling this program in a larger way. I think that, to some extent, it is a problem of finding the best ways to cope with the situation.
Let me indicate to hon. members one drawback in the problem of coping with summer employment for a student. The province of British Columbia is not like the province of Ontario, highly industrialized by secondary and tertiary industries. So, we do not have this large field in which to absorb many students in the summer time. The primary industries such as construction, mining, forestry, and so on, have become much more highly mechanized, so even the student with a strong back is not really all that welcome in those industries today. The jobs in primary industry are becoming more and more the jobs of very skilled men operating big, expensive machines of a fulltime basis. More and more it is not a case just of summer employment for these men but of year round employment. It is not really possible for us to take hordes of students in the summer and send them into these industries and for those industries to say that the union man who has a family to raise, responsibilities of his own and perhaps a student of his own to send to university, can be put aside in order that a student may have a job for a month or so during the summer. The very industrialization of our society and our ability to organize labour in Canada on a year round basis tends to impede our ability to employ students during the summer months.
I have one suggestion which I would like to leave with the government today. I think that, within the framework of government, in many departments there are many projects of an exploratory nature, a survey nature, of a development nature, a statistical gathering nature, that could be oriented toward summer jobs for students. I think that the government, in the same way that it has looked so ably at the question of distributing our labour force across the 12 months of the year instead of in the warm summer months, could look at surveys of all kinds, Arctic exploration, pollution studies, studies in agriculture, sociological studies among the indigenous peoples of Canada, and statistics gathering in all sorts of fields and ask: would it be possible for us to so engineer these studies as to make them the special preserve of students? This work would not be done by a full time force the year round but would be put to rest during the winter time, brought out again during the
67S4	COMMONS
Student Summer Employment summer time and set up for students as ongoing programs. In this way we might be able to find a class of project which distinctively belonged to the university class within our society, designed not only to assist students with their employment during the summer time but also to enable them to work at the kind of project in which they were involved in their university studies. We would be turning away more and more from the idea of a student spending the summer working in a beanery, hopping cars in a drive-in, cutting the heads off fish in a cannery, and other brilliant and brain working tasks of that kind.
I leave this thought with the government, that at the federal level, the provincial level and the city level, as well as in the ranks of industry, special projects be set aside for the student and regarded as the preserve of the student. This could be handled so as not to injure the working man who must work the year round and bring the bacon home to his family. In that way, we could begin perhaps to tackle the vast problem of keeping in work and providing some funds for a student population that will reach two thirds of a million by the middle of this decade and will be up to a million by the end of the decade.


Louis-Roland Comeau: The opposition motion which I rise to support underlines the broad and destructive errors that mark the national economic policies of the present government. I should like to restate the motion before emphasizing its relationship to the fundamental complaint of the student, the poor, and of honest Canadian liberalism against this government's economic policies. The motion reads:
That this House, regretting the government's failure to adopt just employment and fiscal policies which would permit our young people to contribute to national productivity and to their own economic independence, thereby encouraging both pride of country and confidence in our institutions, calls upon the government to take immediate and effective steps to help students at all levels to find and develop employment.
Within the fullest perspective, this motion outlines the challenge we now encounter. We on this side of the House do not see the student as simply an embarrassing employment statistic. We do not hold the attitude that the thousands of young and talented Canadians looking for work are nuisances and a miserable difficulty requiring ad hoc policies and rhetoric. The position my colleagues and I hold is that all capable young Canadians have an equal right to higher education.

DEBATES	May 8, 1970
Further, we suggest that reliable opportunities for our young to be productive and earning members of the Canadian society are absolutely essential to the optimum development of the social and economic goals of Canada. Furthermore, these conditions are essential if our students are to hold a positive respect for our country and have a creative partnership in building the Canadian nation. I am reasonably certain that these goals and conclusions will be taken up by the rhetoricians opposite. However, I hold that it is evident that these positive and expansionist proposals about the place of young Canadians in our economy do not guide or excite this government.
The preoccupation of this government, at the expense of social goals and national productivity, is its ineffectual campaign against inflation, a campaign that is rife with antiquated and immoral tactics and economic insights which would lead a doctor to prescribe bandaids as a cure for pneumonia.


An hon. Member:: Who wrote that for you?


Louis-Roland Comeau: If the hon. member did his research as, I do, he would not have to ask the question. Before making a speech I prepare for it and therefore I know what I am talking about.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.
[DOT] (2:30 p.m.)


Louis-Roland Comeau: While General Charles de Gaulle lives in self-imposed retirement, Gaul-list monetary policies are now theology in Ottawa. Yet, the effects of the fiscal and monetary decisions of the government on the grave problems and frustrations plaguing students today are vicious, all-pervasive and unnecessary.
The Trudeau government has been fascinated with demand, with psychology, and greed, as an explanation of inflation, while ignoring the goals and ingredients of a healthy and just Canadian economy. In consequence, the increasing supply of talent and labour has been viewed by this government as a nuisance rather than, if properly employed, the essential factors to the achievement of a fulfilled society.
Demand patterns preoccupy this government while supply problems are ignored and manpower opportunities are squandered. Trudeau's economic strategies are equivalent to the insistance upon "bleeding" as a medical cure. Viewing his righteousness, we may
May 8, 1970	COMMONS
expect the high theologians of this government to describe those of us who advocate transfusions as dangerous heretics.
David Crane, the respected economic journalist-at least I respect him-pointed out the perversity of the government in a review of the latest pseudo budget of the Minister of Finance (Mr. Benson). I think what he said is very important. I quote:
As for his measures introduced last night, one can agree that they are in line with the clear downward trends in the economy and will further encourage the decline in spending in Canada. At the same time, it is probably fair to say that the consumer credit curb will be more important for its psychological impact rather than its economic impact.
Cooling demand in the country is one way of fighting inflation. But there is another side of the coin-improving the forces of supply and enhancing the productivity of the country. On this side, the government clearly has been and continues to be remiss in its duties.
The present method of fighting inflation-by cooling spending or demand-is a cruel one. It increases unemployment, chokes off new opportunities, deprives the pensioner of a fair standard of living, in short, it ruins or severely damages people's lives.
It is the price we pay for neglect in the past and continued neglect today. Inflation in Canada results, at least in part, because we have used and continue to use our resources badly.
I might add to this, Mr. Speaker, that we are still without a good science policy for Canada, promoting development. We continue to lack policies in the textile industry; we continue to lack good sound policy in the electronics industry and we continue to lack a good sound import/export policy. Let me continue with the quotation, Mr. Speaker:
Manpower planning and training is one approach. There have been severe shortages of labour in some parts of Canada, severe shortages in specific skills in others. When for example there was a shortage of computer programmers in recent years their salaries rise rapidly, and everyone else in the same office complex had to get a raise too. No one in the federal manpower department seemed to know the computer was coming.
Industrial organization is another example. Canadian industry is in many instances badly structured, inefficient. Only now are we starting to talk about changes in our industrial policy. It will likely be years before we see changes.
Housing is another example. A short supply of housing drives prices up. We need more housing money to stabilize prices. We fight inflation by building fewer houses. Surely the need for change is obvious here.
Canadians have good reason to be dissatisfied with this government and its recent predecessors. Day to day responses to short term problems, not considered planning to change the direction of economic growth, have been the order of the day.
22375-10J
DEBATES	6755
Student Summer Employment
Behind the prose of progress used by the current government, cabinet ministers appear to be in the throes of uncertainty. Our current fight with inflation is a cruel one. It will be crueler still if we learn nothing from it.
Now, I think, Mr. Speaker, it would be safe to add to what Mr. Crane has stated that within this government's neglect of supply policies generally, is a dangerous lack of attention to the pivotal importance of effectively employing and integrating the university student and university graduates into our national economy.
The Trudeau government must be ignorant of the fact that its indifference here will divide our country and will surely frustrate its own policies. Otherwise, the government would be introducing a reliable student employment plan; would be presenting income support and incentive schemes rather than threatening consumer credit restrictions; and would have long ago placed the Department of Manpower and Immigration in a frontal position and with an influential minister to fight against the long term problem of inflation. The minister is here, Mr. Speaker, and I know he is listening. The fact this department is nothing more than an appendage in the Trudeau government is starkly revealed in its response to the, now annual, student employment crisis.
On May 4, the peripheral Minister of Manpower and Immigration announced his second ad hoc reply to the student employment crisis. The conclusions and breadth of this statement clearly reveal the bankruptcy of this government's concern and imagination in this area of human supply policy. As a reason for action, the minister stated:
Some hon. members will have total and immediate recall of the importance and urgency of obtaining suitable summer employment as a means of providing for college or university tuition fees and other costs. Some others, although obliged to cast a little farther into the mists of time, will, I am sure, be able to sympathize with the desire of young people to work in order to finance next year's college or university term.
Well, there is the challenge-the practical access of students to university this fall. However, the minister went on to say:
In my last report I outlined the success of last year's campaign which resulted in some 93 per cent of nearly 350,000 post-secondary students who sought work being successful in obtaining it.
There is the basis for not taking any really new ventures or giving specific guarantees this year. Supposedly, the present attention of the government has been adequate. Yet, such a judgment cannot be implied or asserted. *
6756	COMMONS
Student Summer Employment
The government did not establish any meaningful criteria to determine whether their plans really succeeded last year and is employing the same forthright evasion now. The minister can only report in September that their plans have succeeded because their standards are inexcusably permissive. The goal must be to productively employ those students who need or desire work. Furthermore, this objective requires standards of achievement far more precise and ambitious than the single one of the minister that the student gets a job-whether or not for two months, two weeks, or a day; and whether or not for $1.00 or $4.00 or $250 or $600 a month. It is not enough to say a student has to get a job. Many students will not return to school because the minister's policies outline a stupendous insensitivity to the financial requirements of higher education today.
[DOT] (2:40 p.m.)
Does the minister believe a fourth year science student can afford to enter a faculty of medicine this fall on the income derived from cutting lawns for four months? Does the minister believe a student working in a logging camp for four weeks can save sufficient money? Does the minister really believe women students earning at the minimum wage rates across Canada can simply return to university this fall? Yet he has had the audacity to tell us and the country that the government's plans have worked and will work this year without giving us any direct assessment of the incomes or attainable savings that the 93 per cent of the student force achieved last year. On this question, the hollowness of his assurances are creating inevitable cynicism among our young people about the quality and the integrity of our public institutions.


John Patrick (Pat) Nowlan: Those assurances are as
hollow as a Grecian urn.


Louis-Roland Comeau: The problem and the opportunity is immense.


An hon. Member:: Did you research the matter?


Louis-Roland Comeau: You are dam right. There is research money available, and we use it and spend it wisely.


John Patrick (Pat) Nowlan: We have not half as much money for that purpose as the Minister of Finance needs in order to reply to criticisms of his white paper.

DEBATES	May 8, 1970


Louis-Roland Comeau: If other hon. members had used these funds as well as I used them, we might have better speeches in the House.
The problem and opportunities are immense. There are approximately 641,000 university students who are seeking summer employment. Furthermore, anticipating that there will be high school graduates who will be seeking summer employment which is necessary if they are to enter university this fall, I submit that it is likely that about three quarters of a million Canadian students will be available for summer employment this summer. Of course, we are only talking about summer employment. Our students have a hard time finding jobs. They will be looking forward to working this summer in order that they may expand their academic education this fall, and expand their education now. And, Mr. Speaker, they will be competing for jobs with the half million people, the 542,000, who are already unemployed. If that number of people are looking for work now, can we expect our students to compete with them for jobs? I do not know. How we can reasonably expect our student summer employment program to be fruitful this summer? Having said that, I ask, what can we do to alleviate the problem and use the opportunities available?
First, I think the House of Commons must shake the government's complacency about the situation. This is necessary because the plans announced by the minister do not assure or establish income and employment requirements that are necessary for those students, nor do they outline the goals of this government toward the optimum employment of this vast summer resource of talent and energy.
Second, we urge the government to reverse its restrictive monetary and fiscal policies and to concentrate on expansionist supply policies in order to meet unemployment generally, while grappling with the problem of inflation.
Finally, I believe the government should convene a national conference of governments, employers and student representatives to develop adequate immediate programs and to immediately establish long term goals for the optimum utilization of this exciting reservoir of human talent and energy, our employable student community. In establishing or convening such conference, several criteria must be kept in mind if positive and optimum goals are to be taken up seriously.
First, the task must be seen as of creative importance to the development of the country. Thus, the ultimate responsibility for the
May 8, 1970	COMMONS
objective of effectively using this human resource of three quarters of a million young Canadian citizens must be frankly accepted by the government. Such a conference and the present efforts of such groups as the Canadian Chamber of Commerce must not be used to confuse the fact that the inalienable responsibility for this critical goal rests with the government.
Second, such a conference should be a catalyst to public discussion around the question of the under employment of students. At this time, students are not included at all in the investigations that are going on with regard to the proper economic and human productivity we should achieve for such workers as fishermen, secretaries and even housewives. This is self defeating and unfortunate. If we are to become concerned about the quality as well as the statistics relating to student employment, we might begin by asking some timely questions. For instance, would it not be more efficient and enlightened to develop incentives and assistance plans for some students to work on pollution abatement programs, instead of leaving all students to compete for employment with those who are already employed in such places as restaurants and smelters.


Mr. Deputy Speaker:: Order, please. I must interrupt the hon. member because his time has expired.


Louis-Roland Comeau: May I have one more minute, Mr. Speaker?


Mr. Deputy Speaker:: Is there unanimous agreement?


Some hon. Members:: Agreed.


Louis-Roland Comeau: Mr. Speaker, I have not presented all the alternatives I have before me. The government is always asking for alternatives. May I present two more points?
Third, to achieve an optimum employment policy would require planning, of course, continuous, deep and broad planning.


John Patrick (Pat) Nowlan: The hon. member is asking for too much.


Louis-Roland Comeau: My colleague says I am asking for too much. Such a conference would have to begin on that assumption and, therefore, not view the situation as another crisis but as a measurable and manageable annual fact.
Fourth, such a conference would have to accept the perspective that the most effective employment of university students must be
DEBATES	6757
Student Summer Employment seen as an integral part of both the goals and problems of our total national economy. When the government restricts student housing construction, it forces students to compete for low income housing. This is self defeating. Similarly, when the government is careless about summer employment for students, it is contradicting its very concern for the income and employment opportunities of those who are already employed. This can be avoided, of course, if the government and all those concerned acknowledge these and many other interrelationships that are involved, even if not understanding them fully.
Fifth, whether we succeed or not, such a conference would devolve on the government the responsibility of renewing the confidence of our university community in order to show them that our public institutions are honestly prepared to undertake the solution of the problem and are trying to "see as it is" the present state of student employment opportunities. Of course, this I consider my main point, because confidence seems to be lacking on our university campuses as to the effectiveness of our institutions. We have witnessed recent incidents across the United States; a conflict exists there between students and the government.
While I have been talking of "resources" and "optimums", I hold that possibly the major issue regarding student employment concerns the vitality of the trust of Canadian students in the institutions of our political community and the respect they hold for them. I am convinced that we must decide honestly and compassionately to face up to the very personal concerns of the student population now or accept the responsibility, ourselves, for the growth of hostility and disrespect on the part of young people.
In concluding, Mr. Speaker, may I say that questions involving the adequate summer employment of our students are a large part of that choice that all of us in public life must make. My colleagues and I appeal for positive measures to help our student population, because choosing to accept the course of division and hatred that is becoming established elsewhere, would mean for Canada the loss of her dignity and her purpose.
e (2:50 p.m.)


Mr. Mark Rose (Fraser Valley West):: Mr. Speaker, I welcome this opportunity to participate in this academic discussion this afternoon. I have a personal interest in this particular debate, since I have two daughters
May 8, 1970

Student Summer Employment attending university and I wish they would both get jobs. One oi the difficulties for any member who speaks later in a particular debate is that many of the gems and points that he has thought about to support his argument have often been covered by previous distinguished speakers. This, of course, will not dissuade me from making the points I wish to make. I think that the points that have been made, several of them excellent, bear repetition. If I have nothing new or creative to add, I hope I can put it in a different context because the need is real, the problem is there and, in fact, we face a crisis.
It may be too late this year for a debate of this kind to have effect. One of my daughters, who attends the University of British Columbia, has been out of school for two weeks. Although she does not have to work, she would like to and I would like her to work. Nevertheless, she has no job. She is looking for one. My personal experience can be replicated in thousands of homes across this country. I am sure the minister is impressed with the problem. The facts speak for themselves. However, the conclusions drawn from these facts, the solutions and answers, are something else again. It is a dismal picture. It will be compounded when the high school students get out approximately one month from now.
Student unemployment is not a separate and distinct problem. It is part and parcel of the whole problem of unemployment in Canada. According to the lastest figures I have been able to acquire, the unemployment figure is 6.7 per cent. I am sure there are more tragic regional differences. Every student who gets a job may deprive some breadwinner of a job which he needs to support his family. A number of speakers have touched on that point and I will not enlarge on it. The nine municipalities which I represent all report burgeoning welfare rolls at this particular season. I understand they have reached a point not reached at any previous time. The national economic problem, then, which is part and parcel of the student summer employment problem, is probably responsible in large part.
The plain facts of the matter are that unless we change our policies, a large number of students are simply not going to be employed and a growing segment of our population will be either permanently or temporarily unemployed. The contradiction is that the ethic of our working society flatly rejects redundancy and waste of human

resources. Most people take the idea of being useless as a personal affront to their dignity. They have a right to take this stand.
We need hundreds of things in Canada. Other speakers have touched on these. Underutilized people could produce things such as housing and anti-pollution measures. Various kinds of community services cry out also for some kind of positive assistance. Apparently such items are far down on our list of government priorities. Far too little is being done about them. I believe that stockpiling idle manpower is as useless and immoral as stockpiling wheat in a hungry world.
We are confronted daily with media reports of student unrest. For the most part the students are protesting about the right things; war, poverty and pollution. I know some of us are disturbed about student dissent. However, are we not often more concerned about how they wear their hair than about the type of questions they are asking. The fact that they question our priorities in this the best of all possible worlds shakes some people. I think that perhaps the most ill-defined, ill-articulated and vague concern that most young people harbour is that they are really not needed. That they are the first redundant generation troubles them. They ask what kind of society is this that "cons" them into going to school for longer periods of their lives and after they are finished, jumping through often phoney educational hoops, there exists no place for them in it. What do we say to the young people in Ontario who qualified to teach school after having worked years to prepare themselves? How do we answer them? There are no jobs for them because, since the war, our training facilities in Canada and trained teachers we have stolen from other countries have seemed to fill all our apparent needs. Do our big cities not need smaller classes, special classes and more teachers? Are our native people educated to their highest potential? I doubt it.
Every member in this House is familiar with the problems associated with the various groups who are at the bottom of the economic totem pole. We must get away from the idea that universities and university students automatically take summers off just because that practice happens to conform to a habit that we perhaps inherited from our Scottish ancestors. Summer was a convenient time for the harvesting of oats in Scotland. But to have the summers off for a financial transfusion is inconsistent with today's realities. We
May 8, 1970	COMMONS
are not providing the financial transfusions quickly enough to students who need them.
The hon. member for Vancouver Quadra (Mr. Deachman) spoke about the fact that industries are becoming highly technical and that the broad back of the unskilled student is no longer needed by basic primary industries. Even in industrial areas in the country, many plants do not operate to full capacity in summer. In fact some close down for maintenance and refurbishing during that time and this compounds the problem.
Employment opportunities, however, do increase during the summer. No one questions that. However, I question whether employment rises high enough proportionately to meet the needs of the extra large number of people who find themselves without employment each summer. There are other people in addition to students constantly seeking employment. We know the students are going to be disappointed. Those who are disappointed often drop out of school permanently. Later we may urge these same students who dropped out of school into some kind of manpower retraining program to fit them for a job. Would it not be simpler if we took the lead in establishing a semester or quarter system so that students who must work their way through school, and many if not most do, could work when work is available? They need not always work during the summer. I am sure all hon. members agree that the real work of students is not washing dishes or on the end of a pick and shovel. Their real work is studying. They can gain more from that than in any other occupation.
e (3:00 p.m.)
In most provinces the general public pays now 80 per cent of the cost of post-secondary education. Some countries believe that in paying all the post-secondary cost of education on behalf of the students, the benefits greatly outweigh the public cost. Their argument, aside from the accessibility argument, is that existing facilities would be used to greater capacity and that this is a step toward efficiency. A greater number of students are accommodated at university, or the existing number graduate in three-quarters of the time now required-three years instead of four.
In addition, students are able to enrol at college on the basis of ability to be able to learn, rather than ability to be able to pay. I suggest that is an important concept, one with which we have not yet come to grips. Univer-
DEBATES	6759
Student Summer Employment sity students are not representative of society as a whole; the selection is biased greatly in favour of those from the middle and upper income groups. This is true even at UBC. The poor are grossly under-represented. Equality of educational opportunity is largely a myth for many young people. Although we have taken great strides toward achieving equal opportunity, we have not been nearly as successful in the matter of accessibility or equality of condition. This point could be enlarged upon, but I do not have time to do so at the moment. There are more smart but poor kids in Canada than there are smart but rich kids, simply because there are more poor kids. But these poor kids are the students who are most threatened by the scramble for summer jobs and the ones most likely to lose out in that scramble. There is often room in the make-work projects for the boss's son or daughter, but the door is often closed to others.
I mentioned earlier that I had two daughters at university and so I can speak with some authority on the cost of keeping them at school each year. The hon. member for Vancouver Quadra mentioned a figure of $1,700 as the basic minimum at UBC. I would agree with him. I was going to put the figure somewhat lower, at around $1,500, but perhaps the cost of educating daughters is not as great as educating sons. However, I do know from figures provided to me in connection with student loans that the popularity of Canada student loans during the last three years has increased markedly. Let me just quote some round figures. In 1967 there were 64,000 students served through the Canada student loans legislation, in 1968 there were 91,000 and in 1969 there were 110,000. So more and more students have found it necessary to put themselves in hock in order to get themselves through university. I think this condition may indicate two things: first, that the Canada student loans legislation is becoming increasingly popular, and second that perhaps our economy has been on a downward trend and as a result more and more students need loans because of their inability to find employment or other sources of funds. As bleak as the job picture is for the boys, as other speakers have mentioned, it is even blacker for girls. With their pay scales they find it much more difficult to earn even part of the annual cost of their education.
We will have to decide what kind of society we want in Canada. Unless we do, we may find ourselves in the same position as some of the developing countries, in which some of
May 8. 1970

Student Summer Employment the more educated members of the population are forced to emigrate to other countries because for the employment opportunities existing in their native country they are overtrained.
At this point I should like to put on Hansard a short extract from the Toronto Telegram of February 28. It was already apparent even in February that we would have a student employment problem this year. The headline of this article is, "Top U of T grads face job shortage". The article continues:
The shortage of jobs for the best-educated graduates at the University of Toronto is slowly reaching crisis proportions-*
I hope I am being loyal to the article and not taking any extracts out of context. The article goes on:
Canada's branch-plant economy does not generate jobs in research and development here. The bulk of the high level research is done in the U.S.
Increasingly, graduates who want to stay here are being reduced to a technician role, the report claims-
Added competition has been created by the tightening job market in the U.S. More Americans are coming to work in Canadian universities and they are accorded a privileged treatment by having a two-year tax-free period, the report says.
During a previous oral question period I asked the minister about the lack of reciprocity that limits opportunities for Canadian artists who are members of ACTRA, and also the problem they have with our immigration regulations. The same lack of reciprocity between Canada and the United States is apparent in fields other than the performing arts. I know the minister is aware of this problem, and I trust he will look into the matter, because it is a factor to be considered.
To be a little more positive, surely some special projects are urgently needed at the present time for those students who will be unable to find jobs. We shall have to consider such matters as making grants for summer school purposes and implementing special employment projects of various kinds.
I should like to refer to a letter I received from a student which outlines an interesting suggestion. Again I shall quote only a sentence or two. He says:
Thank you very much for your comments on my little essay about some sort of a Canadian youth task force-
I see the task force dealing more in areas of physical development.. .possibly because my jobs in the north have been in connection with hydroelectric development and with mineral exploration. I enjoy very much my summers in the bush. My summers are exciting and I feel are a sort of adventure-

I think there should be more opportunities for young Canadians. Perhaps some sort of subsidization for a regional exchange of students for jobs across Canada would be a partial answer.
So students are thinking about these things, too. Concern over this question is not confined to debates in Parliament. If it were, what we do here would be as irrelevant, as a lot of people think it is. Since we are talking about summer employment, I should like to close by making an examination of the government's record in the matter of employment and layoffs following the austerity measure directive issued last summer by the Prime Minister (Mr. Trudeau). I should like to refer to an Order for Return that I received in response to a question of mine. I had asked two questions involving a number of departments. My question was:
1.	How many students employed by the federal government during the past summer were released prior to their original understanding of their terms of employment?
2.	How were these students notified and how many days' notice were given to these students?
I should like to refer to the replies received from some of the departments concerned. For example, the Department of Energy, Mines and Resources answered my first question in this way:
The employment of approximately 250 students, employed during the past summer by Geological Survey, was terminated as of August 22, 1969. These students had not been given a specific understanding as to the length of the term of employment.
Their reply to my second question about notice was:
Notice of separation was given orally by their supervisors on up to four days' notice.
Up to four days' notice-isn't that wonderful? As far as the Department of Fisheries and Forestry is concerned, they released 70 students prior to what the students originally thought was their term of employment. Thirty-three were given two weeks' notice in writing, 30 were given three weeks' notice orally, two were given 10 days' notice orally and five were given one week's notice orally. As far as the Dominion Bureau of Statistics was concerned, 56 students who had expected to be employed all summer were released at the end of August. Twelve of these were given four days' notice orally and three days' notice in writing, 29 were given three days' notice orally and 15 were given two days' notice orally. I received replies from a number of other departments but I think the trend is clear, namely, that even the govern-
May 8, 1970	COMMONS
ment was putting the lid on student employment at the end of last August. I think in some agencies or any business we might expect this behaviour, but I do not think a government need be concerned with its example in respect of student employment and employment termination practices.


The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bechard):: Order, please. I regret to interrupt the hon. member, but his time has expired.
[DOT] (3:10 p.m.)


An hon. Member:: One minute.


The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bechard):: Is there unanimous agreement that the member continue?


An hon. Member:: More.


The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bechard):: It is
agreed?


Some hon. Members:: Agreed.


Mark Willson Rose: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and members of the House. I do not need more than one minute. I am sure a number of members will be pleased to hear that statement. I just wish to comment briefly on various statistics. We are told that about 650,000 students are looking for work. I have heard contradictory statistics this afternoon. Ontario is reputed to have 500,000 students looking for work. Obviously there is something wrong with these figures: perhaps they include high school students. More than that, judging from some of the information outlined this afternoon I think there is something basically wrong with the system and that not enough is being done to find solutions to this problem. I believe we either agree that the government has a responsibility for full student and general employment, or we do not. If we do agree, I think we will have to take much greater steps to ensure that this problem is resolved and that fewer educational tragedies and interruptions result.


Mr. Judd Buchanan (London West):: Mr. Speaker, I am happy to make a few remarks on the motion of my colleague from Edmonton Centre (Mr. Paproski). Unfortunately, I feel that the thrust of the idea contained in his motion is totally wrong. I am extremely sympathetic to the problem of students. All of us receive many letters from students in our ridings. However, I must be honest and say that I am even more in sympathy with the parents who are unemployed and seeking jobs.
DEBATES	6761
Student Summer Employment I think the problem rests with the educational system. We are tied to an educational structure which was put together 50 or 75 years ago when our society was primarily agricultural. Each spring it was necessary for the students to go out and plant as well as take part in the harvest in the fall. The students now live in a technological, urbanized society. The students basically are pawns in this system. I believe it is time the provincial governments which are charged with the responsibility for education dragged it out of the nineteenth century and brought it forward into the latter part of the twentieth century.
There are many ways in which I feel the problem to which we have been referring today could be tackled. The first would be by making use of the semester system. Our universities should become oriented more toward a semester system in which their students might be taken through to the same degrees in two-thirds of the time. This system is made much greater use of in the United States. For instance, Stanford University functions for 9J months of the year, whereas the bulk of our universities operate at full capacity for seven months. Not only is it apparent that there is an incredible waste in respect of the use of our facilities, but there is also an incredible waste of the time of the students.
Another area to which I think we should be giving serious thought is the implementation and extension of the type of program currently in vogue at the University of Waterloo in their engineering training. This is a program whereby the student spends part of his time receiving theoretical training at university and then goes out on a directly work-related vocation for the balance of the year. Such a program could be adapted to many other programs presently in use at the universities. There is no reason why a similar program should not be adopted for the training of lawyers, dentists, mathematics students as computer specialists, and so on. Such a program could be extended substantially, and I believe our students would benefit proportionately.
With the semester type of program many students would go straight through university rather than taking time off. We should take a second look at the matter of financial assistance for our students. I believe the program should be modified and extended to assist a student in deciding whether he would like to
May 8, 1970

Student Summer Employment stick with his studies for 9J or 10 months and go straight through instead of missing semesters.
I have a non sequitur written down here. I am not quite sure where it should fit in my comments. It is suggested that "the solution to every poor boy's educational program is a rich girl." I do not know whether that applies or not.


An hon. Member:: That is just Robert Bourassa.


J. Judd Buchanan: There is another area
wherein the student loans program is inequitable. I made reference to this in making my comments on the Minister of Finance's budget. I think there are far too many students who have families which can help them at university, while others who do not have parents to fall back on are more deserving of financial assistance. I think the modifications to be considered should bring that program into line as well.
One of our colleagues referred to the repayment of student loans. He objected to the fact that students were compelled to pay interest on these loans. I believe another area we should give serious thought to is the development of a method whereby there could be a surtax on a graduate's income tax whereby he or she would repay the loan during the working years. This method of repayment would be a more equitable system. It is particularly true in respect of women that when they graduate they find they are saddled with a considerable debt, and then they get married and have a family and the family starts off with the debt. It would seem to me more reasonable if there were a surtax which would be paid on earnings after completion of university.
I believe the guts of the problem is the fact that our educational system has been highly reactionary and has failed to keep in touch with the times. We will have to alter the system and stop throwing all these young people onto the labour market at one time. The system must be modified so that they enter the labour market at different times throughout the year. Some would come out in the winter months, some would come out in the spring, some would come out in the fall, and so on. This could be arranged if students had the option of continuing straight through and taking their education without interruption or missing semesters.
I feel this is really where the problem lies.
It cannot be solved by an attempt to create 

artificial jobs for which our schools have not trained the students. We are faced with the problem of an ever-increasing number of students being brought into the labour market every summer and because of technological advances the number of jobs for which they are suited is diminishing. I think proper pressure should be brought to bear on these institutions so that they are able to adapt far better to the 1970's.
[DOT] (3:20 p.m.)


Hon. W. G. Dinsdale (Brandon-Souris):: Mr. Speaker, I want to support my colleague, the hon. member for Edmonton Centre (Mr. Paproski), in the important discussion this afternoon. I think it is most timely that he has introduced his resolution at this particular period in our parliamentary session, because we are on the eve of the graduation of the class of 1970 across Canada. During the next few weeks thousands of students will be pouring from our institutions of higher learning looking for their place in the sun in the Canadian body politic.
While the hon. member who has presented this resolution this afternoon has concentrated on the employment aspect of the problem, I think there are other matters that we might take into consideration. Useful employment, of course, is basic to any meaningful life and it is inevitable, unfortunately, that at a time when the economy generally is in a state of recession, when unemployment figures are rising-as we have noted in recent debates in this House of Commons-to a level that even in some respects compares with the days of the dirty thirties, our students are caught in the tragedy of unemployment.
The only solution for that difficulty is a more positive program on the part of the government in dealing with the twin curses- they are serious enough to allow me to describe them in those terms-that are tearing at the vitals of the Canadian economic system. I refer to runaway inflation which has not yielded to the blandishments of government policy up to the present time, and the resulting unemployment from the slowdown of the Canadian economy.
Apart from the unemployment problem there are aspects of the difficulty today which have parallels in other periods of Canadian history.
I think the hon. member for Fraser Valley West (Mr. Rose) in his contribution to the discussion this afternoon suggested that this was the first time in Canadian history that we had
May 8. 1970

a generation emerging from our universities, or involved in higher education, which had no suitable place for it in the scheme of things. That is not quite accurate. I would point out to the hon. member-because those of us whose memory goes back to the 1930's remember that the designation that was used for that generation was almost the same-that in the 1930's they were referred to as the forgotten generation.


Mark Willson Rose: You are older than I am.


Walter Gilbert Dinsdale: I have spotted the hon. member who is now sitting on the opposite side of the House. He says that those who can suggest this afternoon that they were members of the forgotten generation are older than he. I would like to remind the hon. member that age is not a matter of chronological years; it is a matter of vitality of the mind and spirit-and youth is not restricted to chronological years.
We have been disturbed, in addition to this general problem of unemployment, by the events that have been in the headlines in recent days. There is no time to stress them here this afternoon. Unfortunately, in this day and age of instantaneous mass communication the more violent and extreme section of our young population tends to get the headlines, and in recent days practically the whole attention of the mass media and of the press has been concentrated on the tragedy that took place at the Kent state university in Ohio.
Let me go back to other, earlier periods in Canadian history. I recall that there was radicalism in those days as well, a radicalism which was tinged with idealism. I remember, for example, during the dirty thirties, the period of the so-called forgotten generation, that one of the resolutions that emerged from the university campuses of that day was the famous Oxford resolution which went something like this: Under no circumstances will we take up arms for king and country. Most of the young Canadians who were in universities at that time subscribed to that resolution.
A few years later those who had expressed themselves in such idealistic terms became members of the generation that was referred to as the fighting generation. We were recalling the sacrifice, the service and the contribution that that generation of Canadian youth made as we began this session today in our recollections of the twenty-fifth anniversary of VE day. We should not be too pessimistic

Student Summer Employment with respect to the direction that young people are taking at the present time. It was Bernard Shaw, a cynic of another generation, who said that youth is such a wonderful thing that it is a shame to waste it on the young.
I would say that if the government of Canada and all those in authority across the nation- this includes governments at the provincial level as well-ensure the economic climate and environment which provides the opportunities for our younger people, they would respond to the new challenges and the new problems with the same courage and idealism as the generation we have commemorated today.
Education is essential to this process. In the short time at my disposal I will not outline the precise, ideal program that should be followed in the educational process. But we do know today, with the rapid and almost revolutionary changes that are taking place in society, that higher education, continuing education, or adult education-however you wish to describe it-will be of increasing importance. Governments have already responded in substantial measure to the challenge. For example, our National Parliament introduced a program of grants to higher education. We introduced an extensive vocational training program. We have provided a student loans program to make it possible for an increasing number of young Canadians to have the benefit of higher education. There has been a promise for the last seven or eight years on the part of the present government to provide 10,000 scholarships. This promise has not yet been fulfilled by the Liberal administration. Now, when we have a slowdown in the economy and when job opportunities are limited, the government might do well to implement this promise.
[DOT] (3:30 p.m.)
I feel that the students themselves, when given an opportunity will provide the kind of leadership that the government or this Parliament has not been able to give in coping with the tremendous problems of the latter half of the twentieth century. When we see the new activism, based on idealism, of Canadian young people, emphasized in programs such as CUSO which has international implications -it is one of the most effective programs conceived and operated by students themselves-and when we see our young people taking the initiative in meeting the challenge of pollution to our environment, these are
May 8, 1970

Student Summer Employment positive signs that if we give them half a chance they will carry on in the traditions that have been peculiar to all succeeding generations of Canadian youth.
I know we have the lunatic fringe of hippies and yippies, the types who get the attention of the mass media because they are controversial. I know there are many psychopaths who might be described as rebels without a cause, or revolutionaries without a goal. These are a small minority. By and large, if the government of Canada will provide the opportunities I am convinced that the majority of Canadian youth will respond and provide the leadership as they have in the past.


Mr. Henry Latulippe (Compton):: Mr. Speaker, I am happy of this opportunity to take part in this debate on the motion put forward by the Progressive Conservative party.
This motion is typically conservative and the Progressive Conservative members knew beforehand that it was useless to discuss it.
If building permits, namely money, did not cost three or four times as much as the building itself, we could hope to be able to provide work for students.
It is only logical to wish to find employment for students, but in order to be able to undertake such works, the municipalities, the federal government or the provincial governments must borrow money at 9J, 10 or 10i per cent and even 15 per cent, when they can barely pay the interest on the debts they already have.
Today, there are thousands of unemployed in Canada, a large number of them in the province of Quebec.
At the same time, many students are coming out of universities and schools, hoping to earn a living, or at least a few cents during the holidays, to pay their studies and fulfil themselves as others have done.
But that has become impossible in our system of running into debts. Indeed, if we want to create jobs, there are all kinds of possibilities. We could give the students countless jobs by undertaking to recondition our rivers and to prevent the pollution of those that are still safe. A project of that kind could give thousands of jobs to the unemployed and the students.
But we do not have that "scrap of paper" which is nothing but an entry in the books, under the name of so and so, and a cheque in

circulation. And when the finance companies receive the cheque, they deduct from the account of one person to add to that of another.
In a proportion of 96 per cent, money is but a mere accounting operation, but the government refuses to assume its responsibilities in that field. In fact, it has given the control of that accounting to private institutions which only allow money to circulate provided it comes back to them, padded by the exorbitant interest rates we know.
That is the main reason why we cannot carry out certain projects in which students could participate during the summer. If we could, we might then take advantage of the students" abilities to involve them in research and in the development of the huge natural resources available in the country and which can only be exploited through hard thinking and initiative.
But we cannot launch such projects because we lack the necessary "scraps of paper". If we really want to take action, we have to borrow these "scraps of paper", we have to get further into debt, we have to impose further taxes on people already overtaxed in every field.
In the field of industry, many students could, during the holidays, help to build new plants or to enlarge existing ones. In the long run, it would provide work for the unemployed.
As for the field of industry, it is still impossible to be concerned about it. Indeed, the federal government now has to deal with a surplus of products worth $34 billion in 1969-70. The government prefers to pay unemployment insurance benefits or welfare allowances. The government does not have the necessary funds to provide employment for students. If students are given jobs, new products will be created. The government does not want that on account of the surplus. This shows the lack of adequate purchasing power. Such purchasing power is not available, because the governments, the ministers, the federal and provincial administrators have not assumed their financial responsibilities.
Technology has invaded all economic fields. Every year thousands of new graduates are unable to find jobs in Canada. About 30 per cent of these graduates, on whom much money was spent, have to leave the country in order to earn a living. Yet we need their science to build and progress.
Unfortunately we lack the necessary funds for settling this problem. Only the Creditistes
May 8, 1970	COMMONS
are concerned about this problem. They are the only ones to bring up those matters. When it is necessary to solve problems and to bring an end to situations that are as alarming as this one, when thousands of unemployed and of students could be working to accomplish something and to ensure the progress of science, we move backwards or do nothing because we lack scriptural money and we cannot find the way to put some scraps of paper into circulation.
e (3:40 p.m.)
When the building permit, that is the money, costs three times as much as the building itself, it is rather difficult to keep on building. Indeed, it is rather difficult to make use of the talents of university graduates, to apply their knowledge, because we do not yet have the financial means of doing so. If there was some logic in Parliament, if government was truly geared to human needs, our first concern would be to present a motion aiming at studying the present economic system and at making financially possible what is physically feasible.
If Creditistes were heeded, it would be possible to continue to give work to students and build something, because financing would come about as something would be built.
That is the crux of the matter. As long as university people who have never looked into this problem go out saying that we are confronted with a fools' problem, we shall remain locked in a fools' system. We have been submitting to it for a long time. It should have been changed a long time ago. No government in the world has been able to cope with that problem. The financial system is wrong; it does not reflect things as they are and does not enable us to build whatever we want to.
Everything needs to be built. We could build arenas for our young people. Many Canadian cities, especially in the province of Quebec, have none, while they are in need of them. We could have students work on such projects.
Many other construction programs could be carried out: wharves for boats, harbour facilities along our lakes and rivers. We should even have marinas for pleasure-boats and dry docks. On Megantic lake there are wharves which have been in bad repair for seven or eight years. There is no money to rebuild them. They should be repaired for the benefit of the citizens. There is no marina at Lac

Student Summer Employment M6gantic, where I live. A few years ago, there was one, but it is no longer in use. I urge the federal government and, in particular, the Department of Public Works, to repair the wharves. Nothing is being done, and the population does not get anything. Money is lacking. Students could work to rebuild the wharves and do many other things we could mention.
Work should also be provided to students in summertime in order to promote tourism. Indeed, students could work on all kinds of facilities along lakes, roads and camping grounds. Dams could be constructed on rivers, in order to raise the level of water, to allow for fish-breeding, and a lot of other things.
Numerous projects could materialize, such as the building of bridges and roads.
My constituency is divided into 24 parishes. Only the main roads are covered with asphalt; the secondary roads are still unfit for traffic, being gravel or dirt roads. We could create thousands of jobs, but we do not have the money to do so. The policy pursued by the government is a policy of road-stretches. Roads are surfaced with asphalt in short stretches, every five years. Therefore, for 50 years stretches of roads have been paved but only a small number of roads are completely covered, because there is not enough money. In that respect, we are deep in debt, because these works are paid three or four times to finance.
As I said, citizens, members of Parliament, persons responsible, administrators, in other words, all those who have been chosen to administer the country should open their eyes and their ears, and put into effect in Canada a logical economic system based on reality.
Mr. Speaker, I have still much more to say, but I know that other hon. members wish to speak. Therefore, I shall conclude my remarks by urging all members and all those in government in Canada to really take their responsibilities and to seriously consider the necessary improvements for a sound administration of the country and the creation of jobs to the extent that we have materials, engineers and workers, provided the question of money does not hold us back as it does now everywhere. Let us make financially possible all that is physicaly feasible. In so doing, we shall perform our duty and other problems should automatically settle themselves. In fact, it is only a "scrap of paper" that is wanting and our economic system that is proving inadequate. Let us remedy the flaws
COMMONS DEBATES	May 8, 1970
Student Slimmer Employment
of our economic system and the other difficulties will settle themselves.


Robert Jardine McCleave: Mr. Speaker, my words will mercifully be few, but I should like to heartily endorse the resolution that is before us this afternoon in the name of the hon. member for Edmonton Centre (Mr. Paproski) and on which a number of members have already spoken rather eloquently. I think the message they bring to this House and to the government, if it will listen, is important-one that cannot be sloughed off to be revived only at this time of year when students are moving out of universities into the labour field. As members before me have said, this problem cannot be solved so late in our parliamentary session by pronouncements of the minister. I thought the hon. member for South Western Nova (Mr. Comeau) made the strongest point in the whole debate-


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


Robert Jardine McCleave: -and he agrees with me, when he said that the major issue regarding student employment concerns the vitality of Canadian students trust in and respect for the institutions of our political community. I think this is an important point indeed, particularly when we are in this rather curious era known as the age of the just society-or perhaps the age of the former just society, because I have not heard that particular term used for some time.
I know that the Prime Minister (Mr. Trudeau) flew into the hearts and minds of a good number of young Canadians in the last election campaign and persuaded them to follow him. This was much the same as when 60 to 70 years ago a great English playwright invented the character who flew into the bedroom of a young English family and persuaded the children to fly away with him to a land where pirates and Indians engaged in all sorts of strange enterprises.
[DOT] (3:50 p.m.)


An hon. Member:: Like Toronto.


Robert Jardine McCleave: So it is not likely that the people from the universities who flew once with the Prime Minister are apt to fly with him again, unless he puts some meaning into the just society. I raise this point because many hon. members opposite, dear as they
[Mr. Latulippe.)
are to me as friends, are capable of some of the most outlandish gimmicks ever seen on the Canadian political scene.
This remark is not confined to federal members, because their provincial counterparts can come up with some equally outlandish gimmicks. I went through election campaigns in which Diefendollars were talked of around the riding. Now, as one looks back, one sees that that was really the gold age. I wish I had saved them because they are the only currency worth anything today. In a recent provincial election campaign blank notes or partially blank notes were distributed. I point this out to show that the gimmicks of the just society involve utilization of spurious, bogus currency. This partially blank money seems to epitomize the dilemma of those at the university level with regard to the just society. They, in turn, are now part of the blank part of the currency, so to speak.
The students, the veterans, the aged and those least able put up a fight against inflationary pressures are in their turn, the victims of it. Is this the definition of the just society in Canada today? I suggest that it is. I suggest that it is a very apt illustration of the facts. Certain people are asked to bear the brunt of the war against inflation-and students, the people with whom we are particularly concerned, are very much pawns in this war.
The minister, who was a university man, in whose riding a university is a very important part of a person's life and who holds his and other universities dear, has my sympathy. I think it must bother the life out of the minister, who is trying to do a good job for certain people coming under the responsibility of his portfolio, to know that he is associated with this so-called just society. Probably when he takes part later in the debate he will let us know the amount of stress he is under and we will be able to give him a hand and say, "Go back to the cabinet and fight for what you regard as justice for university students," for whom we are looking out this afternoon.
It is probably ironic that the crowd on which the skilful propaganda touch of the Prime Minister had such impact in the last election is probably one of the first to feel the might of his fist when he does not, temporarily at least, need its votes. He is now in a position to exercise power. Is that not ironic? I am sure it must strike you so, Mr. Speaker, and hon. members opposite. Of course,, it is very apparent to members on this side of the House. The young people are the shock-troops
May 8. 1970	COMMONS
in the war to be fought once every four years, yet when the war is over they are left to walk up and down the highways of Canada trying to find jobs that will enable them to attend university in the winter.
I thought the hon. member for South Western Nova (Mr. Comeau) put the problem very Well when he noted that about 641,000 university students are seeking summer employment.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


Robert Jardine McCleave: I am glad to see the hon. member for South Western Nova so thoroughly agreeing with me when I agree with him. He noted a few minutes later in his speech of which I made copious notes that these students will be in competition with 542,000 people, at least, who are already unemployed.
I think the NDP member who spoke also pointed out the dangers and frictions that will arise in trying to thrust one group into competition with the other in obtaining the few jobs that are available. I think that was a useful and good point and reinforced what the hon. member for Edmonton Centre and the hon. member for South Western Nova have been trying to tell the House.
In planning, it is important that we should not emphasize that students should merely take any type of job that comes along because that, sir, would only alienate the people for whom work the year round is important. Students must work merely to tide them over, so that they may attend university. That is the important thing for them. Therefore the objective that the minister, his department and the government must aim at is not the piling up of impressive statistics which might seem to solve the students' problem for a short period of time but not the problem of non-student unemployment, if I might coin that phrase; the objective must be the working toward ends that are in the interests of students while not alienating the two different parts of the labour force.
The hon. member for South Western Nova in calling for a special conference on student unemployment made a very useful contribution to our discussions. I reject the idea of bleeding sections of the economy in the fight against inflation. This is an old-fashioned concept, somewhat older than the Keynesian concept of economics and old when compared with the plight we face in Canada today. When people in future look back at this period of time and find that we sacrificed the old people, the veterans and the students
DEBATES	67S7
Student Summer Employment because of a mistaken notion about the problems of inflation, I think that anyone in Parliament who endorsed the Prime Minister's economic theories will be roundly berated, as well he should be. Those of us who had sense enough to fight those theories and to propose motions such as the the hon. member for Edmonton Centre proposed this afternoon will find themselves among the blessed.
I hope our fight this afternoon is not a futile one. I hope the points we are making will reach the conscience of the government through the Minister of Manpower and Immigration (Mr. MacEachen) and that he will tell the government he is not satisfied with its efforts and the direction it is taking in finding jobs for students.


David Orlikow: Mr. Speaker, as we meet today more than 600,000 university students either have completed or will shortly complete their studies for the previous school year. More than 90 per cent of them will be looking for employment which will help them finance their next school year. Some time before the end of next month an equal number of students will be finishing high school, technical, vocational school training or CEGEP courses and looking for work. They will find it extremely difficult to find work because according to the latest figures 542,000 adults, or 6.7 per cent of the labour force, are already out of work and are looking for work.
[DOT] (4:00 p.m.)
This is not the first time in modern times that Canada has had unemployment. However, it is certainly the first time since the depression years of the 1930's that we have had unemployment induced and encouraged by government action. To a very large extent our unemployment is caused by the government's deliberate policy to fight inflation. The government adopted this policy on the advice of its economic advisers who obviously have read nothing more recent than the words of President Hoover of the United States when determining how to deal with the economic difficulties of unemployment. They certainly have not heard of John Maynard Keynes. They have not studied the western European countries, none of which has more than 2 per cent unemployment. In Canada 6.7 per cent of the labour force is unemployed. This figure does not take into account the large number of university students now looking for employment.
6768	COMMONS
Student Summer Employment
The figures show that in March 542,000 Canadians were seeking employment. This represents 6.7 per cent of the labour force. The latest breakdown that I have for the provinces indicates that 8.7 per cent of the work force in the province of Quebec is looking for work. Is it any wonder that on April 25 the Parti Quebecois received so many votes? No wonder they got 23 per cent of the total vote and 33 per cent of the Frenchspeaking vote in that province. In the month of January, 14.4 per cent of those looking for work in the age group 14 to 19 years were unemployed. Of those looking for work in the age group 20 to 24 years, 8.1 per cent were unemployed. Those are precisely the people to whom the Parti Quebecois appeals-the new graduates and the university students.
It is precisely because of the short-sighted policies of this government that the Parti Quebecois had such marked success, particularly among the young people, teachers, professors and groups such as social workers. These people saw this happening in the province of Quebec. They are aware of the absolute unconcern of this government about the problem. They know this government is encouraging unemployment in the futile and stupid hope that more unemployment will cool down the so-called inflation and in some magic way stop the rise in prices and create more jobs later.
In addition to our protest the economists in the universities, labour leaders, social workers and the mayors of the major cities of Canada have been protesting. A few weeks ago a delegation representing the Canadian Federation of Mayors and Municipalities met with the Prime Minister (Mr. Trudeau) and his cabinet. An article in the Toronto Globe and Mail dated April 21, 1970, and headlined "Unemployment Cripples Cities, Mayors tell PM" reads in part as follows:
A group of Canadian mayors yesterday told Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau that rising unemployment across Canada is crippling growth of their cities.
Mayor Sidney Buckwold of Saskatoon said major urban construction projects "are grinding to a halt" because of unemployment.
I remind the minister that Sidney Buckwold can hardly be called a partisan opponent of the government: he was the Liberal candidate on several occasions.


An hon. Member:: He is a fine man.


David Orlikow: He is a fine man; however, the people of Saskatoon in their wisdom did not see fit to elect him even though there

DEBATES	May 8. 1970
were rumours that if he were elected he would be appointed to the cabinet. The article continues:
"Representatives of cities across the nation have said that architects' offices in their areas are just not busy."
Mr. Buckwold said municipal leaders in Canada are deeply concerned about the construction prospects for 1971. "The work is just not building up."
One does not need statistics to know that, Mr. Speaker. Housing starts are down drastically-50 per cent or more. In every Canadian city the starts on large projects such as office buildings, factories and shopping centres are not taking place at the usual rate. We are faced with a very serious situation.
Our post-secondary education has been built on the basis, as an hon. member pointed out, that 80 per cent of the university educational process is paid for by the state. However, the student or his family still has to pay a substantial university fee to enable him to attend university. The student or his family must find the money. Since 1945, more and more university students have been depending on work with fairly adequate wages for the 41 to 5 months of the year when they are not attending university. Until recently it was relatively easy for most students who wanted to work, to find employment. This matter should be discussed some time in the House or in committee to see whether it is the best way to operate our educational system. Possibly we have passed the time when students should be attending school seven months of the year and away from school the other five months. I do not have the time, and this is not the place, to go into detail. Suggestions were made earlier today about a trimester system. The suggestions have merit.
It is not the fault of the university students if the federal and provincial governments have not worked out alternative systems to the one in practice today. This is something the students have a right to expect because we want them to attend university. If one reads the newspaper, listens to the radio or watches television he is told that if one wants to succeed in this world and obtain the best job, he must have a better education.
[DOT] (4:10 p.m.)
How many times have we heard speeches from the minister and from others-and I have made my share-which have pointed out that the largest percentage of the unemployed comprises those with the least education? We
May 8, 1970

have been encouraging our young people to attend university, technical and vocational schools or community colleges, and implicit in our encouragement was the belief of ourselves and our students that students would be able to find work during the period when school was closed.
As I said earlier, over 600,000 students are now looking for work and I presume another half-million will be looking for work at the end of June. As at last March there were 542,000 people looking for work, and the figure for May is probably higher. So there is not only potential, but real competition for the jobs available between those who want full-time work and university or high school students who want part-time work.
Last year and the year before the Department of Manpower and Immigration conducted a fairly effective drive to find jobs for university students, and I cannot fault them for that. But when one examines the record to see what happened, while nobody actually lied about the success of the program-certainly not the department or the minister-we would be exaggerating if we were to pat ourselves on the back and say we did a successful job.
Let me refer, as I am sure the minister will, to the summer employment survey of postsecondary students in Canada, 1969, prepared by the Department of Manpower and Immigration. Looking at the survey one finds that last year almost 350,000 students were looking for summer work. This figure represents about 90 per cent of those young people who were at high school or university. Looking further, one sees that in Canada as a whole 93 per cent of our students who sought work obtained paid summer work in Canada.
I am sure the minister will use that statistic, or something very similar to it, when he rises to speak. The position was, of course, much worse in Newfoundland where only 79 per cent of the students who were looking for work found paid work; but nevertheless that figure does make the situation look pretty good. At least, it does until one notes the next set of figures in the report, which show that the average time worked by male students was 12 weeks during the summer of 1969, and by female students only 11 weeks. I am not a mathematician, but one does not need to be a mathematician to realize that since most university students have five months away from school, this gives them 20 weeks in which to

Student Summer Employment work. Yet we find the average period worked was 11 weeks for women and 12 weeks for male students.
I	suggest to the minister, through you, Mr. Speaker, that this situation represents a disaster. Our students need work for the whole summer if they are to continue their studies in the coming year without having to bear a debt or to impose a real burden on their families. I am sure that the minister, who himself was a university professor before entering politics full time, knows something about the expense involved in being a student. He knows how much a set of books costs, regardless of the course being taken by the student. He knows something about upkeep costs and about how much money a student, no matter how modest his needs, must have for spending purposes. So that if students can average a work period that amounts to only 60 per cent of their available time, the situation is really disastrous.
I see my time is nearly up, but I want to suggest to the minister, while giving the officials of his department high marks for effort, that the department's efforts are doomed to failure and that the problems facing our students will multiply unless and until the government drops its short-sighted policy of combating inflation by encouraging, in fact by forcing, higher unemployment. The burden of such a program must by the very nature of things fall most heavily on students and part time workers.
I suggest to the minister that instead of a very elaborate and extensive program that is designed to find work for students at a time of substantial unemployment, the minister should direct his very considerable efforts and ability to persuading the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance (Mr. Benson) that they are adopting the wrong course by embarking, with the support of the governor of the Bank of Canada, the chairman of the Prices and Incomes Commission and the Deputy Minister of Finance, upon a deliberate policy of creating more unemployment than this country has had for many years. If our unemployment figures continue to spiral they will soon be compared with the very heavy unemployment suffered in the pre-World War
II	depression period.
In light of this situation, the task of finding employment for university and other postsecondary education students is doomed to failure. The government ought to reverse its present policy and instead adopt a policy of full employment. The government should
May 8. 1970

Student Summer Employment expand the economy and meet the needs of our people for housing, recreational services, and so on. This sort of policy would not bring on large-scale student unemployment and we would not need the kind of specialized programs that the department is planning for this year.


Hon. Allan J. MacEaclien (Minister of Manpower and Immigration):: Mr. Speaker, I have listened to the debate on the motion moved by the hon. member for Edmonton Centre (Mr. Paproski) and I thank hon. members for the seriousness with which they have treated the subject of student summer employment. The motion was somewhat broader than the particular problem of student summer employment and could have embraced in its discussion other activities of the department, including our "Operation Retrieval", our student exchange program with other countries and our efforts to find a permanent place for graduates of universities in the Canadian labour market.
Naturally, hon. members have focused their attention on the immediate question now before the House, namely, the problem of providing jobs for the very large number of students who will be coming on to or are presently on the Canadian labour market. I am pleased that once again the opposition has directed the attention of the House to the programs and policies of the Department of Manpower and Immigration.
[DOT] (4:20 p.m.)
It is not surprising that the members of the opposition should refer back again and again to the programs and policies of this department, because we do administer a variety of complex programs which affect very closely the lives of many Canadians. Sometimes I wonder whether people fully realize the extent of our contact with the public in all phases of the department including immigration as well as manpower.
I hope this motion will have the effect of drawing greater support for the programs that are already in effect in Canada to assist students this summer. The motion is a bit too late to have any influence on programs that could be put into effect for this summer. However, in the department over the winter months, beginning last fall, we have been at work preparing a summer program. We have been in contact with a variety of organizations in preparing this summer program. So while we appreciate the somewhat belated [Mr. Orlikow.l
motion on this subject put forward by the opposition, we hope it will have the effect of encouraging the highest possible employment for students this summer.
Mr. Speaker, the problem is clear. There is an increasing number of students entering the labour force for temporary employment as a result of two factors, namely, the increasing youthful population in Canada and the increasing participation of Canadian youth in the educational process. When the schools and universities close in the spring, the students come on to the labour market for temporary employment. They come on to the labour market in order to obtain jobs so that they can earn money with which to continue their education in the fall. This problem, which became acute last summer, may remain acute this summer and will probably become more acute later in the 1970's. This summer there will be a total of 641,000 students on the labour market.
I should like to draw to the attention of the hon. member for Winnipeg North (Mr. Orli-kow) that his estimate was highly exaggerated. The estimate in respect of secondary, post-secondary and university students is about 641,000. Of that figure 385,000 are in university now or will be in university in the fall. The remaining group is composed of high school students in secondary institutions down to grade 10. This number is about 256,000. Therefore, it is important to retain that figure in mind, that is, that the number of students who will be going to university and who will be seeking jobs this summer is about 385,000. That is an increase over last year.
In the government's hiring policies we give priority to students who are now in university or who are about to enter university. These students have the first chance at jobs in the government because their need in respect of income obviously is greater. So of the total of 641,000 there is a total of 385,000 students now in or entering university this fall, plus an additional 256,000 students at the secondary school level. This is the problem we must face.
I do not agree with the hon. member for Winnipeg North when he says that in the present structural arrangement it is not necessary to have a special program. Unless there is a drastic reorganization in the university and school system, which is within provincial jurisdiction, to assist in this problem we will have this temporary demand on the labour market every summer for a grow*

May 8. 1970
ing number of jobs for students and we will have to have a special program for this special problem.
I should like to say that we should not "knock" the success of last year's student employment program. It was not perfect; we admit that improvements are needed, especially in respect of lengthening the period of employment available to students. But there were pretty encouraging results. The results were much more encouraging than the doleful predictions which had been made by members of the opposition as we entered into the summer period last year. I was greatly worried concerning the performance, or the possible performance of our program last summer.
I was greatly heartened by the result of the survey to which the hon. member for Winnipeg North referred. At least in his judgment it was a fairly effective drive. I think it was better than that.
In order to test the adequacy of our program, very early in the summer-in the spring-we decided to have a survey carried out at the universities and colleges in order to find out from the students what their summer experience had been. My hon. friend has referred to this survey. We have not tried to conceal its results. It has good parts, and there are parts we would like to change. It indicated that 93 per cent of the students in colleges and universities who wanted jobs, obtained jobs last summer.


David Orlikow: For part of the summer.


Allan Joseph MacEachen: The survey also indicated the number of students who had jobs for the whole summer, for half the summer and for less than half the summer. There is a major improvement to be made in our performance in the direction of lengthening the work experience of each student. With that I agree with the hon. member for Winnipeg North.
I believe in their speeches this afternoon hon. members have taken a somewhat pessimistic attitude. Perhaps their intention was to urge us on to greater efforts.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear!


Allan Joseph MacEachen: It may also have the effect of creating a pessimistic attitude about the labour market for students this summer. The results last summer were pretty good; even the hon. member for Winnipeg North described them as fairly effective. I should like to congratulate the hon. member for Red Deer (Mr. Thompson) who, when we announced our program in July last summer,
Student Summer Employment took note of our efforts and made a positive statement about the probable results of our program last summer. The positive results did take place; jobs were obtained by 93 per cent of those who sought jobs. The students who were employed last summer earned $300 million. This is rather important; it is not a trivial sum. To suggest that the effort, not only by the federal government but also by the provincial governments, the university associations and the employers, brought about a trivial result I believe is totally inaccurate and damaging to the efforts we are making this summer.
[DOT] (4:30 p.m.)
Ninety-three per cent did get jobs-all for as long as they wanted-and they earned $300 million. We say now that with the difficulties we face in the general labour market, plus the increased number of students-the 10 per cent that are coming out this summer-we are bending our efforts to do as well, and hope to do better this summer. Our program was announced on May 4. Hon. members dismissed it as if it were of no consequence. It is of some consequence. We have put out $250,000 in advertising to draw to the attention of employers in Canada the need of taking on students in order to meet the social issues that have been raised throughout this debate. It is not a question of a job; it is a question of the approach of society as a whole to this particular generation and the evaluation of the contribution it will make to Canada as well as its confidence in the ability of this generation to make a contribution to the productive machinery.
We try to set the pace federally. We are taking on 11,365 students this year. Last year we took on quite a number. Over a two-year period since 1968 we have increased our hirings as an employer by 27 per cent. That is a pretty good record. If employers and provincial governments in Canada would do as well, there would be practically no student summer unemployment problem in Canada in 1970. These students who will work for the federal government this year will earn about $12 million. In my department I am taking on 570 students. About 400 of them will be working in Manpower centres across Canada, helping other students get jobs. Surely if the students are as keen on getting jobs for themselves as we think they are, this body of almost 400 students will have a major impetus to do what we propose to do.
I want to go back for a moment to the results of a survey that was made last sum-
May 8, 1970

Student Summer Employment
mer. The survey showed that 72 per cent of the students founds jobs in private industry, 14 per cent with provincial governments, 7 per cent with the federal government and 7 per cent with municipal administrations. Governments provided close to 30 per cent of the jobs. The rest must come from private industry. It would be foolish on my part to develop a strategy without taking into account the fact that the major contribution to the resolution of this problem must take place within the private sector of the Canadian economy.
I am delighted to tell the House that the Canadian Chamber of Commerce very early this year, not suddenly in May or in April but in December or early this year began to promote its Operation Placement, a student summer employment program. The program is under the chairmanship of Mr. Scrivener, the president of Bell Canada and he and his committee have taken the question of student employment very seriously. They have put out a booklet called "Operation Placement". It is a new effort this summer. In this booklet the problem of student employment is analysed in the way that it has been analysed today and the numbers of students and the importance of solving the problem are studied. They go on to say:
It goes without saying that the Canadian businessman holds the solution to this problem.. .Every effort must be made to find as many productive openings as are economically feasible.
An hon. member touched upon the necessity of meaningful employment. It seems to me to be dangerous to take on students merely for the sake of taking them on without giving them something meaningful and substantial to do. In my own department we take on students for the summer and we are attempting to work out meaningful jobs so that at the end of the summer, even though they will have earned $1,000 or more, they will not have also developed a contempt for an organization that has put them in the system and does not give them anything meaningful to do. What Mr. Scrivener and his committee are saying in this booklet is that these openings must be economically feasible. He goes on to say:
It has been suggested that, since the student labour force in 1970 will amount to approximately 5 per cent of the national labour force, a "5 per cent guideline" be established as a target.
They have gone to their membership and have said that every employer belonging to the Canadian Chamber of Commerce should take on a student-equivalent of 5 per cent of its normal labour force. If the employers in [Mr. MacEachen.l
Canada will do that, as requested by the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, and if employers in Canada will do as the federal government has done, there will be no student employment problem this summer. The key to this problem, no matter how much we can do as governments at the federal, provincial and municipal levels, will depend upon what private employers will do in planning their efforts to take on an increasing number of students.
We know that the hon. member for Edmonton Centre (Mr. Paproski) is interested in the question of student employment. He has helped in that field in the past. What can Members of Parliament do to help, in addition to making speeches and drawing the attention of the country to this problem? They can do what I hope the hon. member for Edmonton Centre will do, that is call by phone employers throughout the country and throughout their constituencies and ask, "Will you take on 5 per cent? Will you do what the federal government is doing? Will you do what the Canadian Chamber of Commerce recommends?" It would be a very important part of the program now if we got this impetus from Members of Parliament who appreciate the importance of summer student employment.
We have talked about what the government is doing, what we did last year, what we are hoping to do this year and what the Canadian Chamber of Commerce is proposing to do. I want to say a word about a person who has not been mentioned yet, that is, the student himself or herself. We still believe in individual responsibility.


Walter Gilbert Dinsdale: They will provide the leadership. Give them a chance.


Allan Joseph MacEachen: I want to draw the hon. members' attention that the most effective element in this program is the student himself or herself.


Walter Gilbert Dinsdale: That is what we said.


Allan Joseph MacEachen: The most effective person in the job getting field is the student. As we talk about all these programs, let us remember that the boy or girl who gets the job this summer is the boy or girl who goes and digs for the job. I received a letter last week or the week before from a lady in Chilliwack, British Columbia. She had been watching our TV commercials showing a group of students talking about summer employment and saying, "We need work," or words to that
May 8. 1970	COMMONS
effect. She wrote something that I thought was very important:
[DOT] (4:40 p.m.)
As I watch this film I ask myself these questions:
1.	Why aren't they portrayed at least making an attempt to find work for themselves?
2.	What do they appear to have done to equip themselves for summer work?
As a mother of a 17 year old girl who worked hard towards her Royal Lifesaving medals since she was 12, I can tell you she has no trouble getting a summer position. However, she has planned ahead for her high school and university summer vacations.
The average employer is looking for young people able to sell themselves, because they in turn will be able to sell his merchandise or services.
I quote those paragraphs merely to underline to hon. members that the underpinning of our program is the quality of the student, the way he puts himself forward and the efforts he will make to get a job this summer. I firmly believe that a sincere attempt by students will get a sincere response from most employers.
The hon. member for South Western Nova (Mr. Comeau) made a pretty good speech. The only parts I did not like were sections which I thought I heard the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Stanfield) deliver a year or so ago on the same subject, but the rest of it was pretty good.


Thomas Miller Bell: They have the same ideas.


Allan Joseph MacEachen: I have no complaint, but 1 regret that anyone would describe the speech as containing anything other than research from former editions of Hansard. But that is sometimes a pretty good place to go. The hon. member asked for a national conference on employment. Well, Mr. Speaker, the National Employment Committee met yesterday in Ottawa. Where are these bright research boys who are not watching what is happening?
Our National Employment Committee met yesterday. It is working effectively in order to bring together what is required to have a successful program this summer. My department was represented along with the Association of College Placements, the Economic Council of Canada and the Canadian Chamber of Commerce. They reviewed our common program, including the government, business and the universities. There has been a good response, for example in the advertising field. I am quoting from a rough report from this meeting but I think it might give hon. members a sense of what is happening in this country. First, with respect to advertising
DEBATES	6773
Student Summer Employment they say that in addition to the promotion gained from our $260,000 campaign it was reported that the Financial Post had devised a letter encouraging student employment and a reprint of our major newspaper advertisement was sent by it to 13,000 subscribers and businessmen across Canada. That is one effort-a small effort, but a very important one.
The representative of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce reported that their program, Operation Placement, has been put into motion and that at least 160 Operation Placement committees have been established by the Chamber across Canada, all working closely with Canada Manpower centres. Some 60 of these are in the province of Quebec, but all the committees are located in major communities and student density areas. The representative of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce pointed out that the intention of the federal government to employ so many students this summer has been of great help in their program when approaching employers across Canada.
I do not want for a moment to underestimate the nature of the problem or the importance of solving it this summer. I hope we will be able to do as well this year as we did last year. Co-operation will be required. Cooperation has already come from business and industry. I hope it will be forthcoming from hon. gentlemen opposite and from hon. gentlemen on this side of the House, many of whom are active in areas where the hiring of students comes within their purview.
It has been pointed out that this is a serious matter for students. While there are loans and bursaries, all students are not able to avail themselves of these avenues of financing education. Indeed, while some students have access to loans and bursaries they would much prefer to graduate without any financial obligations and enter life without that additional encumbrance. We give them credit for that. The problem of financing their education is a serious and important one. We have taken action to give jobs in the government. Private industry is taking action to assist in getting jobs as well. We know that as a government we cannot solve the problem alone. We cannot solve the problem of poverty alone. It involves the active co-operation of the private sector.
I should also point out that there are students who may not want to take jobs this summer. The world is changing. Travel is becoming more popular. Affluence is apparent

May 8, 1970

Student Summer Employment for some students. This is not just a poverty-stricken class totally. For example, last summer some students wanted to become better acquainted with the world in which we live and 14,000 of them went travelling. I am glad that there is that kind of opportunity. When I was a student, the thought of going travelling for the summer was out of the question. But according to our survey 14,000 Canadian students last summer were able to put the question of work out of their minds and go travelling.
Some 5,000 students did voluntary work. For one reason or another they were in a position to take on voluntary work. Another group of about 24,000, either because they had to catch up on courses or because they wanted to accelerate their education, stayed on at university. There is a whole spectrum to the problem. It is a very dynamic process. There is an interaction between the community and the employers and the world, and the world does not impinge as much upon the Canadian student as it does upon the rest of us.
The comment that the government does not care, cannot be taken seriously. We are proud of our young generation. We are proud of the students of Canada. We are not as young as we used to be, but we still appreciate the idealism and the sensitivity of young people. Certainly this government wants to maintain its links with the young generation and wants to maintain a sensitive approach, not basically for political purposes but because, as has been pointed out in the debate, the very survival of our country and of our institutions depends upon the confidence that the young people of Canada have in these institutions.
As one person, one member and one minister, I have great confidence in the youth of Canada. I am grateful that they are not embroiled in the difficulties in which, unhappily, the youth of the United States find themselves.
[DOT] (4:50 p.m.)


Thomas Miller Bell: Mr. Speaker, may I ask the minister a question. He mentioned that one of our members made use of part of a speech of the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Stanfield). May I ask the minister if he will give the House the assurance that portions of the speech he just made have never before been used by anyone? In other words, is it not one of the minister's old, warmed-over sphhches?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: Mr. Speaker, all I can say
is that it is still as fresh and as vibrant as it was the first time.


Thomas Miller Bell: That is the same as the speech of the Leader of the Opposition.


Lorne Edmund Nystrom: Mr. Speaker, would the minister answer a question?


An hon. Member:: A fresh one?


Lorne Edmund Nystrom: Yes, it is fresh. During the course of his remarks the minister referred to some of the very real difficulties in places like Saskatchewan. I wonder if he could inform us whether there are any settled programs to take account of the regional difficulties in places like Saskatchewan, the Prairies or the Mari times?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: Mr. Speaker, I know there is a great deal of mobility in the student population, but we do not have a special program for helping students to move. From my knowledge of the labour market I know that students from the Atlantic provinces, for example, travel all over Canada to take jobs in the course of the summer, and that is a very good thing.


Gerald William Baldwin: How many are working for Benson writing replies to those letters about the white paper?


Lorne Edmund Nystrom: It has been pointed out a number of times today, Mr. Speaker, that women students who work in the summer earn only about half the wages paid to men. I wonder if the minister, in liberating women, could tell us of any special programs he might have in mind that would help women students get a fair share of employment in the summer. Does he have any such programs in mind?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: Mr. Speaker, I should be glad if the hon. member would advise me on that subject. He is more of an expert than I am.


The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bechard):: Since it is five o'clock, it is my duty to inform the House that pursuant to Standing Order 58(11), the debate is deemed to be concluded.
At 5 p.m. the House adjourned, without question being put, pursuant to Standing Order.

Monday, May 11, 1970