1969-02-26

[Stage Direction]
Second report of the Standing Committee on Miscellaneous Estimates, in French and English-Mr. Fernand-E. Leblanc (Laurier).
[Stage Direction]
Third report of the Standing Committee on Broadcasting, Films and Assistance to the Arts-Mr. Reid.

[Stage Direction]
Right Hon, P. E. Trudeau (Prime Minister):
Mr. Speaker, on February 14, immediately following the conclusion of the constitutional conference, I laid on the table of this house a document entitled "Consensus of the conference". The secretariat of the conference now informs me that that document contained an error in the text of one of the resolutions and has asked me to apologize to the house for any inconvenience that this may have caused. That office has now prepared a corrected version, in bilingual form, which is available for distribution to all members, and I wish to table this today.


Mr. Barry Mather (Surrey) moved: for leave to introduce Bill No. C-176, respecting the control of lobbying.


Mr. Knowles (Winnipeg North Centre):: Expliquez.


Barry Mather: Mr. Speaker, the purpose of this bill is to require registration with the Clerk of Parliaments of all lobbyists; persons employed by others in an attempt to influence the public's elected representatives for or against enactment of laws. It would in no way interfere with lobbying or the right of
citizens to express their wishes to members of parliament, but as is done in several of the United States now, it would require the identification to the public of the private interests and motives of paid lobbyists.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to, bill read the first time and ordered to be printed.

Hon. Donald S. Macdonald (Rosedale):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to announce a change in the business of the house, which occurred as a result of discussions this morning. In view of the fact that we did not complete the debate on second reading of the Criminal Code last night, we agreed this morning that it would be desirable to change the order so that the debate on second reading might be resumed today in the hope that perhaps a decision will be taken before the close of this day. If that decision is taken we will then call the bill amending the Financial Administration Act for consideration during the balance of today.
The timetable in respect of the proposed government organization act will therefore be set back one day. We will commence the debate on that tomorrow. If it is not completed through the appropriate stages by tomorrow night, we will continue with that debate on Friday.
There were also discussions as to the manner of debating the government organization act. Perhaps I might take advantage at this time to put the suggestions on record. There might be general agreement on a relatively short discussion at the second reading stage, with possibly only one speaker from each party. Instead of lengthy and varied discussion on the first clause in the committee of the whole it might be agreeable that we deal with each part of the bill as an integral unit before proceeding to the next one. In this way we hope that the chairman of the committee might be more lenient in permitting a more general debate on the clauses at the beginning of each part, in respect of each department, than would normally be the case. It would seem possible in this way to deal with this in a more systematic and structured fashion.

February 26, 1969
Questions



QUESTIONS ON THE ORDER PAPER

[Stage Direction]
(Questions answered orally are indicated by an asterisk.)

Mr. Caoueile: Did the government grant financial aid to classical colleges of the Province of Quebec and, if so, what colleges received aid and how much did they receive over the past five years?


Mr. Robert Stanbury (Parliamentary Secretary to the Secretary of State):: During the past five years, no operating grants were paid by the Government of Canada to classical colleges of the Province of Quebec either under the per capita university grants scheme (to 1966-67), or under the provisions of Part II of the Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act, 1967 (from 1967-68). Any payments to classical colleges would have been made by the Government of the Province of Quebec.


DEFENCE-EXPENDITURE ON MODERNIZATION PROJECTS
Mr. Broadbenl: 1.	For each fiscal year, what have been the number of projects and annual expenditures of the Industry Modernization for Defence Exports Program established in 1963 in the Department of Defence Production and transferred over in 1967 to the Department of Industry?
2.	For each fiscal year, what have been the annual expenditures of this program shared by the federal government and the defence industry?


Hon. Jean-Luc Pepin (Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce):: 1.
Federal
Year	No. of Projects	Expenditure $1964/65	19	474,0001965/66	40	2,440,0001966/67	98	8,000,0001967/68	95	10,581,000
Note: This Program was established in the fall of 1963 and no money was spent until FY 1964/65.
2.	Project costs under this Program are shared equally by the Federal Government and the defence industry.


NATIONAL ARTS CENTRE FINANCING
Mr. Beaudoin: 1.	What was the government's share in the financing of the National Arts Centre?
2.	Was the federal government the only contributor to the financing of the National Arts Centre and, if not, who were the other contributors and what was their share?
3.	What is the date set for the inauguration of this National Arts Centre?
4.	What person or persons have been appointed for the internal management of the National Arts Centre?


Robert Douglas George Stanbury: I am informed by the National Arts Centre as follows: 1. The Federal Government paid all the construction costs of the National Arts Centre.
2.	While the Federal Government was the only contributor to the Centre's construction cost, the City of Ottawa contributed 89,917 sq. ft. of the 254,649 sq. ft. of the Centre's site.
3.	The Centre's inaugural festival begins Monday 2 June, 1969.
4.	The operation and maintenance of the Centre is the responsibility of the National Arts Centre Corporation consisting of a Board of Trustees composed of the following persons: Members appointed by Order-in-Council: Mr. Lawrence Freiman, Ottawa, Chairman; M. Paul Hebert, Montreal, Vice-Chairman; Mr. Leonard A. Kitz, Halifax; Mme Andree Paradis, Montreal; Mr. William Teron, Ottawa; Dr. Robertson Davies, Toronto; Mile Madeleine Gobeil, Ottawa; Mr. Anson C. McKim, Montreal; Mrs. Percy Genser, Winnipeg; Dr. Dorothy Somerset, Vancouver; Dr. Arnold Walter, Toronto. Members ex-officio: the Mayor of the Corporation of the City of Ottawa: His Worship Donald B. Reid; the Mayor of the City of Hull: Son Honneur Marcel D'Amour; the Director of the Canada Council: M. Jean Boucher; the President of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation: Dr. George F. Davidson; the Government Film Commissioner: Mr. Hugo McPherson.
The Board of Trustees appointed Mr. G. H. Southam as Director of the Centre for a term of five years effective 1 April 1967.


COMMERCIAL PILOTS-COST OF TRAINING PROGRAM
Mr. Lewis: 1.	What was the cost to the Department of Manpower and Immigration (a) per trainee, and (b)
February 26, 1969



the total cost of training 20 men to commercial pilots license standard at Lakehead Flying School (the class graduated in June of this year)?
2.	Are future courses of this nature contemplated and, if so (a) where (b) what are the dates?
3.	How many unemployed pilots were registered with the Canada Manpower Centres at the time the course referred to in part (1) above was begun?
4.	Of those commercial pilots registered with Canada Manpower Centres at the time in question, how many subsequently gained employment as pilots through the efforts of Canada Manpower Centres?
5.	What is the procedure followed by Canada Manpower Centres in attempting to place a pilot?
6.	On what basis were the students referred to in part (1) above selected and were they (a) members of the Air Cadet League of Canada (b) currently licenced as private pilots (c) other, please specify (d) did they go before a competent selection board or did they simply apply for such training?
7.	Was the flying school involved a member of the Royal Canadian Flying Clubs Association?
8.	By whom were the pilots graduated from the course referred to in part (1) employed and at what salary?


Hon. Allan J. MacEachen (Minister of Manpower and Immigration):: 1. (a) Average cost per trainee $2,343 (Training cost $1,811.20- Training Allowance $531.82); (b) $51,546.50 for 22 trainees starting the course.
2.	Not in the foreseeable future.
3.	143-pilots in all categories, not necessarily "bush pilots". Many seasonally unemployed or not interested in moving to Northern Ontario.
4.	11.
5.	Manpower counsellors keep in touch with the needs of the industry and contact employers on behalf of clients who are seeking new positions. Applications with details of the pilot's training, licence, endorsements, experience, flying hours, etc., are, when the client is interested, circulated to Canada Manpower Centres where opportunities might exist. Pilots who lack the training, experience or licences with the endorsements required by employers are helped to obtain other types of employment. Pilots who follow the occupation on a seasonal basis are also assisted with their search for alternative off-season employment.
6.	The availability of the training and the selection criteria were broadcast by Radio
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Stations CFTA, CKPR and CJLX, Television Station CKPR-TV and published in the Port Arthur News Chronicle and the Fort William Times Journal, to attract potential trainees who would be suitable for "bush flying" operations.
The criteria were: Valid private pilot licence-minimum requirement; Medical category to Commercial Pilot standard; Academic standing-functional Grade 10 (determined by mature adult test) or higher; Suggested age 35 or under. Actual decision made on the basis of experience or physical ability to handle "bush pilot" position which includes loading and unloading freight; Flight test; Motivation and definite willingness to accept employment in bush operations in Northern Ontario, (a) Not known; (b) Yes, minimum requirement; (c) Four trainees had commercial pilot licences; (d) Trainees were selected by a competent selection board from applications received.
7.	No.
8.	Twenty-two pilots commenced the course and 13 of the 20 graduates obtained employment with nine employers in Northern Ontario. The salaries of the 13 were as follows; one pilot, $250 per month plus four cents per mile; four pilots, $250 per month plus three cents per mile; 1 pilot, $10 per day plus four cents per mile; 1 pilot, $500 per month; four pilots, $400 per month; one pilot, $300 per month plus room and board; earnings of one pilot unknown.


QUEBEC-FEDERAL AIR POLLUTION PROGRAMS
Mr. Beaudoin: Has the government any programs to combat air pollution in the Province of Quebec and, if so, what is the nature of each such program?


Hon. John C. Munro (Minister of National Health and Welfare):: No. However the
Department of National Health and Welfare provides financial assistance to the Quebec Department of Health through the national health grants program for support of research and other projects in the field of air pollution. A list of current projects is attached.
5966	COMMONS DEBATES	February 26, 1969
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Environmental Health Applications To The Public Health Research Grant Department of National Health and Welfare
Name	Project No. Title of Project	Amount
Requested
Air Pollution Studies	$
BARIL, Marcel (Dr.)	604-7-674	N-Sure and swift methods of identification of pollutants (particularly dusts) in the air of urban residences	8,836JEGIER, Sigmunt (Dr.) JEGIER, S. (Dr.)	604-7-663 604-7-603	N-Effects of atmospheric pollutants on antiproteolytic and neurohumor al enzymes. T-Formation in the atmosphere of oxidizers harmful to public health	21,350JEGIER, S. (Dr.)	604-7-602	C-Evaluation of the degree of atmospheric pollution by photosynthetic measures	18,950PANISSET, Maurice	(Dr.)	604-7-679	N-Determination of the amount of air pollution from a given outlet by means of altitude observations	16,540PANISSET, M.	604-7-593	C-Air Pollution and Heat Islands	31,000PANISSET, Maurice	(Dr.)	604-7-678	N-Study of the precombustion of aliphatic hydrocarbons with a view to modifying the amount of aldehydes, non-saturated hydrocarbons and "NO" in burned gases	16,340WHITE, F. T. M.	604-7-608	C-Studies in Industrial Dustiness	9,500(a)	Comparative Evaluation of Assessment Techniques.(b)	Abatement of Dusts by the Application of Froths and Foams


POST OFFICE LOCK BOXES
Mr. Macquarrie: 1.	What is the cost to the Post Office Department of administering post office lock boxes?
2.	What revenues are derived from rental of these boxes?
3.	What portion of the costs mentioned in reply to part 1 are capital costs?
4.	What portion of the costs mentioned in reply to part 1 are operating costs?
5.	What are the principal factors making up these operating costs?


Hon. Eric W. Kierans (Postmaster General):: In so far as the Post Office Department is concerned: 1. For the fiscal year 1967-68, $4,633,074.30.
2.	$2,497,700.

3.	Nil.
4.	$4,633,074.30.
5.	Collection of rentals, administration and services rendered by other government departments such as, accommodation, equipment, maintenance and installation principally provided by the Department of Public Works.


CANADIAN FORCES SUPERANNUATION FUND
Mr. Coates: 1.	Was a decision made by the federal government to increase the contribution rates under the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act and, if so, for what reason?
2.	How much additional revenue will be provided to the fund in a full fiscal year?
February 26, 1969

3.	What was the balance in the fund on March 31, 1968, and did the fund increase in the fiscal year from March 31, 1967 and, if so, by what amount?
4.	What would have been the estimated increase in the fund from April 1, 1968, to March 31, 1969, without an increase in the rate of contribution and what will be the additional increase in the fund as a result of the increase in the rate of contribution?


Hon. Leo Cadieux (Minister of National Defence):: 1. As announced on 22 November, 1968, it is the government's intention to propose an amendment to the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act to increase the contribution rates under the Act.
2,	3 and 4. This information will be available when the Bill to amend the Act is before Parliament.


IVORY COAST REPRESENTATIVE
Mr. Fairwealher: What is the name of the representative of the Ivory Coast referred to in the answer to Question 1,104?


Hon. Mitchell Sharp (Secretary of Slate for External Affairs):: It is not normal practice to specify the names of representatives of foreign governments coming to Canada for con-
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fidential discussions and in any case it would be inappropriate to name the person referred to in the reply to question 1,104 without the concurrence of the government concerned.


COMPLAINTS ABOUT C.B.C. FESTIVAL SERIES
Mr. Coates: 1.	How many complaints were lodged with the CBC by individuals and organizations in Canada over programs appearing in the Festival Series on television during the present season?
2.	What is the break-down in complaints for each of the dramas to date?
3.	What is the estimated cost for the series of programs that will be produced for Festival and what has been the cost of each program shown to date?
4.	What has been the revenue obtained from advertisers for the Festival Series?


Robert Douglas George Stanbury: I am informed by the C.B.C. as follows: 1. As of February 6, 1969, viewers' letters and telephone calls to C.B.C. about the current season's Festival play totalled approximately 650 favourable to Festival and 900 unfavourable.
2.
October 30, 1968	The Write-Off	48 favourable	6	unfavourableNovember 6, 1968	Yesterday the Children Were Dancing	39	33	November 13, 1968	A Scent of Flowers	16	121	December 11, 1968	Reddick	77	72	January 1, 1969	A Penny for a Song	7	14	January 15, 1969	Neighbours/The Basement	64	611	January 29, 1969	Cancellation of "Noises of Paradise"	394 protesting cancellation	10	supporting cancellationFestival series in general	5 favourable	32	unfavourable3.	The approximate total cost of each Festival drama, including cost of production staff, talent and studio facilities, is $93,000. Each drama in the series has been produced within this average budget figure.4.	Nil. The Festival period is not available for sponsorship.
and 1968 because of the inability of sub-trades to collect money owed them by sub-contractors of bonded contractors?


Hon. Jean-Eudes Dube (Minister of Veterans Affairs):: 1966, none; 1967, none; 1968, one.


BRITISH COLUMBIA-VETERANS LAND ACT COMPLAINTS
Mr. Rose: How many complaints did Veterans Land Act Offices in British Columbia receive in 1966, 1967


REGISTRATIONS FOR SECOND CLASS MAILING
Mr. Macquarrie: 1.	As of September 1, 1968, how many publications registered successfully for 2nd class mailing

February 26, 1969
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privileges in each of the following classes: general news, religion, sciences, agriculture, forestry, fisheries, literature and the arts, public health, business and trade, trade unions, co-operatives, church congregations, political parties, others?
2.	As of February 1, 1969, how many publications in each of these classes were using 2nd class mailing privileges?
3.	How many publications were refused second class mailing privileges?


Eric William Kierans: In so far as the Post Office Department is concerned: 1. As of 1st September 1968 a total of 5,291 publications were authorized to mail at a second class rate of postage. The records of the Department have not been maintained in such a way as to permit a breakdown by class as of the date requested. Commencing 1st April 1969 departmental records will be maintained in such a way that such information can be provided.
2.	As of 1st February 1969 a total of 5,267 publications were authorized to mail at a second class rate of postage.
3.	79 publications were refused mailing privileges in 1968.


C.B.C. FESTIVAL SERIES, &quot;NOISE OF PARADISE&quot;
Mr. Coates: 1.	For what reason was "Noise of Paradise" cancelled as the drama on the CBC television series Festival on January 29, 1969?
2.	What is the explanation for the delay in reaching the decision in question and did the final decision relate in any manner to complaints lodged with the CBC over other programs previously shown in this series?
3.	Did the CBC make payments to any individuals or firms in regard to "Noise of Paradise" that will result in a loss to the corporation if the drama is not televised at a later date?
4.	Were any advertising revenues lost as a result of the cancellation of this program and, if so, what was the amount of the loss?
5.	Have any advertisers cancelled their patronage with the CBC as a result of programs that have been shown on this series and, if so, what is the estimated loss in revenue from these advertisers to the CBC?


Robert Douglas George Stanbury: I am informed by the C.B.C. as follows: 1. "Noises of Paradise" was withdrawn for review. It may be rescheduled on the network at a future date.
2.	Senior C.B.C. officers screened the program immediately they became aware of possible concern over its content. This was done as a result of reaction to previous Festival dramas together with complaints about on air
[Mr. Macquarrie.l
promotion based on scenes from this particular production.
3.	As stated above, the drama may be rescheduled at a later date. If this is not done there will be a loss.
4.	No. The Festival series is not sponsored.
5.	No.


MONTMAGNY WHARF-DREDGING
Mr. Lambert (Bellechasse): 1.	When was the dock and access channel to the Montmagny wharf last dredged?
2.	What was the total cost of this work?
3.	What company carried out the work?
4.	How many days did the work take?
Hon. Arthur Laing (Minister of Public
Works): 1. During 1959-60.
2.	$411.
3.	The work was carried out by rental of bulldozer on hourly basis.
4.	About one week.


C.B.C. FRENCH LANGUAGE BROADCASTING STUDY
Mr. Serre: 1.	When did the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation establish an internal committee to study French language radio and television broadcasting?
2.	Who are the members of this committee?
3.	When is it expected that the study will be completed?


Robert Douglas George Stanbury: I am informed by the C.B.C. as follows: 1. March, 1968.
2.	The committee was composed of 15 members, five from the Corporation's Quebec Division and French Networks, seven from other C.B.C. production centres across the country and three from Head Office. These people were drawn from the programming, technical and administrative areas. It has not been customary to require C.B.C. to list the names of individuals assigned to internal studies.
3.	The committee reported at the end of October, 1968. The suggestions and recommendations contained in this internal document are being evaluated as to feasibility and cost.
February 26, 1969


TORONTO AIRPORT PASSENGER RAMPS
Mr. Skoberg: 1.	For what reasons are the enclosed passenger ramps at Toronto International Airport not in use at all times for the convenience of passengers arriving and departing?
2.	For what reasons were the enclosed ramps not in use for the convenience of passengers arriving and departing on Flights 906 and 400, on February 3, 1969?


Hon. Paul Hellyer (Minister of Transport):: The management of Air Canada advises as follows:	1. Passenger ramps, or loading
bridges, are located only at Finger 6 at Toronto International Airport and this Finger has no access to Customs and Immigration areas; therefore they can only be used for domestic flights. Work is presently in process which will make it suitable for international flights.
2. The passenger ramp was not used for Flight 906, February 3, because the aircraft was to be routed onward to New York for a
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trans-border flight, which is normally precleared at Finger 4; therefore the incoming aircraft for Flight 906 was positioned directly at Finger 4 in preparation for its departure.
Flight 400 is operated with Vanguard equipment and the passenger ramps at Toronto International Airport are not suitably constructed for use with this type of aircraft.


POTATO EXPORTS
Mr. Corbin: 1.	How many (a) seed potatoes (b) table potatoes
(c)	processed potatoes (in cwt) were exported in the years 1960 to 1967 to South American Countries, to the West Indies, to Europe?
2.	What is the name of each country?
3.	Of this amount, what percentage was exported from (a) New Brunswick (b) Prince Edward Island (c) other provinces?


Jean-Luc Pepin: 1 (a), (b), (c) and 2.
Exports of potatoes are recorded in the following export commodity classes:-
Commodity Class	Year	Commodity Class	Yearsseed potatoes	1460	1960	91-80	1961 to 1967fresh potatoes	210	1960	91-82	1961 to 1967potato products, frozen	92-80	1963	92-82	1964 to 1967
The full details of these exports by countries are published in the December issues of Trade of Canada, Exports by Commodities (Dominion Bureau of Statistics catalogue No. 65-004). These publications are obtainable from the Queen's Printer, Ottawa, and available for reference in all public libraries and in the Parliamentary Library.
(a), (b),	and (c).	The percentage of	exports	of "potatoes" from	New Brunswick.Edward	Island,	and other provinces	are as	follows:-	Year	OtherNew Brunswick	Prince Edward Island	Provinces1960	61.8%	19.9%	18.3%1961	47.2%	24.3%	28.5%1962	64.5 %	13.8%	21.7%1963	55.1%	17.1%	27.8%1964	58.2%	14.1 %	27.7%1965	38.2%	25.0%	36.8%1966	56.2%	14.2%	29.6%1967	44.8%	20.4%	34.8%
February 26, 1969
Questions


PRESERVATION OF MALISEET LANGUAGE
Mr. Corbin: Has the federal government been asked to contribute to the preservation of the Maliseet language in New Brunswick and, if so, what contribution has been made and when?


Robert Douglas George Stanbury: Yes. However, no contribution has yet been made as this request is still under consideration.


STATIONS CBAF AND CBAFT, MONCTON
Mr. Corbin: 1.	How many persons were working with radio stations CBAF and CBAFT of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation in Moncton in December 1968?
2.	What was the number of men and women in each of the positions?
3.	How many persons were from (a) New Brunswick (b) Quebec (c) other Maritime Provinces?


Robert Douglas George Stanbury: I am informed by the C.B.C. as follows: 1. As of December 31, 1968, there were 14 C.B.C. employees at radio station CBAF and 17 at television station CBAFT plus 21 integrated radio and TV personnel, several of whom also have responsibilities with respect to the C.B.C. English language radio station CBA at Moncton.
2.	Of the total of 52 employees, 41 are male and 11 are female.
3.	(a) New Brunswick, 39; (b) Quebec, 10; (c) Other Maritime Provinces, one; plus two from Ontario.


LA RONGE AND URANIUM CITY TELEVISION SERVICE
Mr. Korchinski: 1.	What are the present plans for extension of television services in Northern Saskatchewan, particularly as they affect the areas of La Ronge and Uranium City?
2.	Are there any plans to initiate improvements serviced out of Prince Albert by the relay station at Green water?


Robert Douglas George Stanbury: I am informed by the C.B.C. as follows: 1. A C.B.C. application to establish a "frontier coverage package" TV station at La Ronge will be submitted to the Canadian Radio-Television Commission by February 25, 1969, and it is expected that this can be considered by the CRTC in June. The C.B.C. has been operating
[Mr. Pepin.l
a similar station at Uranium City since October 1968.
2. The C.B.C. is aware of technical problems recently experienced by the privately-owned affiliate CKBI-TV, Prince Albert, which controls several rebroadcasting stations including one at Greenwater Lake. The station is attempting to correct these difficulties which are not within the purview of C.B.C.


THETFORD MINES, QUE., AIRPORT
Mr. Dumont: 1.	Have studies been made by the Department of Transport into the possibility of constructing an airport at Thetford Mines and, if so, what decision has been arrived at by the Department?
2.	If the project has been approved, what amount of the assistance has been provided for construction of the airport?


Paul Theodore Hellyer: 1. Yes. The studies concluded that a contribution of $75,000 would be justified. However, an engineering study has shown that the minimum cost of developing a suitable facility would be $114,000. It was therefore concluded that until additional evidence becomes available of either reduced cost or increased potential use by air travellers or air carriers, it would be necessary to accord a relatively low priority to Thetford Mines.
2. Answered by "1".


APPLICATION OF SALES TAX TO MUNICIPALITIES
Mr. Mongrain: Are municipalities exempt from the payment of federal sales tax on the purchase of materials for use in municipal works and, if so, under what circumstances?


Hon. Jean-Pierre Cote (Minister of National Revenue):: Not all materials for use in municipal works are exempt from sales tax, however, Part XII of the Excise Tax Act provides for exemption from sales tax in respect of the following: 1. Certain goods sold to or imported by municipalities for their own use and not for resale, as follows: (a) culverts; (b) equipment, at a price in excess of five hundred dollars per unit, specially designed for use directly for road making, road cleaning or fire fighting, but not including automobiles or ordinary motor trucks; (c) fire hose including couplings and nozzles therefor; (d) fire truck chassis for the permanent attachment thereon of fire fighting equipment for use directly in
February 26. 1969

fire fighting; (e) goods for use as part of sewerage and drainage systems, and, for the purposes of this exemption, any agency operating a sewerage or drainage system for or on behalf of a municipality may be declared by the Minister to be a municipality; (f) laminated timber for bridges; (g) precast concrete shapes for bridges in public highway systems; (h) structural steel and aluminum for bridges.
In addition, the sales tax paid on materials used in constructing a school or other similar education institution and public libraries operated on a non-commercial basis is refundable.


CANADIAN ARMED FORCES STRENGTH
Mr. Beaudoin: 1.	What is the strength of the Canadian Armed Forces in the following Divisions (a) sea (b) land (c) air?
2.	What is the strength of the Reserve Forces?
3.	What is the strength of the Regular Forces?
4.	How many and what types of aircraft are employed by the Armed Forces?
5.	How many and what types of ships are employed by the Armed Forces?
6.	How many Canadian servicemen are stationed outside the country and at what locations?
7.	What is the annual salary of a Private in the Armed Forces?
8.	What is the annual salary of officers, according to rank?


Mr. David Groos (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence):: 1. As
of 31 December 1968 (a) 17,740; (b) 37,751; (c) 42,350.
2.	As of 30 September 1968, 27,158.
3.	As of 31 December 1968, 97,841.
4.	CSR110 Albatross, 9; CP107 Argus, 32;
CC115 Buffalo, 15; CF100 Canuck, 43; CF101 Voodoo, 60; CF104 Starfighter, 183; CC108 Caribou, 8; L19/L183 Cessna, 24; CF5 Freedom Fighter, 10; DHC1 Chipmunk, 51; CC109 Cosmopolitan, 9;	C47 Dakota, 76;	C45
Expeditor, 53; C45 Falcon, 7; Cl30 Hercules, 23; DHC3 Otter, 38; T33 Silver Star, 213; CT114 Tutor, 179; CC106 Yukon, 12; CS2F Tracker, 69; H21 Vertol, 6; H34 Sikorsky, 3; H44 Vertol, 4; CH112 Nomad, 20; CF113A Voyageur, 9; CH113 Labrador, 6; CHSS2 Sea King, 38; H04S, 5; CUH1H Iroquois, 10.
5.	CVS (aircraft carrier), 1; SS (submarines), 4; DDH (destroyer helicopter carrier), 9; DDE (destroyer escorts), 13; AOR (operational support ship), 1; ARE (escort maintenance ship), 2; YMT (diving tender),
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1; FHE (anti-submarine hydrofoil), 1; PCS (patrol craft), 4; MCS (coastal minesweepers), 6; YMG (gate vessels), 5; QW (training yacht), 2; AGOR (research vessels), 6; AO (oilers), 2; Tugs, 27; Auxiliary Vessels (miscellaneous civilian manned working craft), 99.
6.	As of 17 February, 1969, there were 12,191 Canadian servicemen serving outside of Canada in Australia, Belgium, Bermuda, Britain, Cambodia, Cyprus, Czechoslovakia, France, Germany, Ghana, India, Israel, Italy, Japan, Jordan, Korea, Laos, Lebanon, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Pakistan, Poland, Sweden, Tanzania, Turkey, United Arab Republic, U.S.A., U.S.S.R., Vietnam, Yugoslavia.
7.	The minimum annual salary of a private is $2700, the maximum, $5460.
8.	The basic annual salary of officers is
as follows:	Officer Cadet, $2,316; Second
Lieutenant, $4,668; Lieutenant, $7,116; Captain, $9,348; Major, $11,952; Lieutenant Colonel, $14,388; Colonel, $18,012; Brigadier General, $21,444; Major General, $25,320; Lieutenant General, $27,684.


DEFENCE CONSTRUCTION CONTRACTS
Mr. Caouetie: 1.	What was the total number and the respective amounts of the contracts awarded by Defence Construction (1951) Limited for each of the last four years (a) to Canadian contractors (b) to contractors in the Province of Quebec?
2.	How many of the contractors who were awarded contracts during these years went bankrupt while carrying them out, and what were the losses suffered by (a) Canadian contractors (b) contractors in the Province of Quebec?


Léo Alphonse Joseph Cadieux: Insofar as Defence Construction (1951) Limited is concerned: 1. (a) Canadian contractors: 1965, 341, $20,347,956.54; 1966, 397, $19,150,596.02; 1967, 381, $19,930,310.52; 1968, 301, $12,242,526.53; (b) Quebec contractors: 1965, 57, $3,027,229.57; 1966, 78, $3,221,710.29; 1967, 66, $3,730,108.00; 1968, 61, $2,792,902.28.
2. (a) 1965, 4; 1966, Nil; 1967, 1; 1968, Nil; (b) 1965, 3; 1966, Nil; 1967, Nil; 1968, Nil.
The losses suffered by the contractors is not known.


APPLICATION OF TAX ON BUILDING MATERIALS
Mr. Caouette: 1. Does the 11% federal tax on building materials apply to works of art and, if so, what was the total sum received to date from this source by the Department of National Revenue?

February 26, 1969
Questions
2. Does this tax apply to materials used in the making of frames for works of art and, if so, what is the sum received from this source?


Hon. Jean-Pierre  Coie@Minisler of National Revenue: 1. The sales tax of 11 per cent on building materials applies when these materials are used in producing works of art.
The amount of revenue is not determinable since manufacturers of building materials rarely sell materials directly to persons who produce works of art.
2. Sales tax at the rate of 11 per cent on building materials and 12 per cent on other materials used in the making of frames for works of art applies. It is not possible to determine the amount of sales tax received from this source for the reasons outlined in 1 above.


CANADIAN FORCES INSTRUCTION STAFF
Mr. Robinson: 1.	In what countries does Canada provide Canadian forces staff for instruction and/or information purposes?
2.	Does Canada provide any (a) supplies (b) installations (c) equipment for the Armed Forces of any other country and, if so, to what extent and what is the cost to Canada for each country?
3.	Does Canada provide exchange officers and/or personnel from the Canadian Forces for training purposes in other countries and, if so, which countries are involved and is the arrangement reciprocal?


David Walter Groos: 1. For
instructional purposes: Ghana, Malaysia and Tanzania.
2.	Canada provides a Mutual Aid Program to support the T-33 Silver Star training aircraft being flown by the Royal Hellenic Airforce and the Turkish Air Force. The cost of this support program for the calendar year 1968 was $439,000.
3.	Yes, reciprocal arrangements exist between Canada, Britain, France and the United States of America to exchange officers and men for training purposes.


MILITARY INSTALLATIONS TRANSFERRED TO FRANCE
Mr. Robinson: 1. What was the total cost of military installations, buildings and equipment utilized by Canadian forces and subsequently turned over to France?

2.	Has any agreement been made between Canada and France whereby Canada will be reimbursed for installations, buildings and equipment?
3.	What was the original arrangement and/or agreement whereby Canada would locate Canadian force personnel in France regarding (a) duration of arrangement (b) provision of installation, buildings and equipment (c) removal of installation, buildings and equipment?
4.	What is the cost to Canada to relocate the Canadian forces for installations, buildings and equipment?


David Walter Groos: 1. The
capital cost for Canadian financed facilities at Metz and Marville was $11,014,000.
2.	Not yet, this matter is still under review.
3.	Canadian Forces were located in France under the provisions of the Franco-Canadian Airfields Agreement of 14 May, 1952. (a) The Agreement was to remain in force as long as the two governments were bound by the North Atlantic Treaty signed in Washington on 4 April 1949, or until it was terminated by agreement between the two governments; (b) and (c) Under the provisions of this Agreement, Canada retained the right to remove any equipment, facilities or other moveable property, including prefabricated structures, which Canada had financed, and to which the NATO Common Infrastructure program did not apply.
4.	$5,000,000.


CHANGES IN ONTARIO MEDICAL PLAN TO ENSURE ELIGIBILITY FOR MEDICARE
Mr. Kaplan: What changes would be required to federal medicare legislation and regulations to make eligible for federal contribution, the provincial medical insurance plan presently in force in Ontario?


John Carr Munro: The provincial medical insurance plan presently in force in Ontario, OMSIP, covers approximately thirty per cent of the population of Ontario.
In order to permit federal contributions to be made, either present coverage would need to be increased to meet the initial ninety per cent requirement of the Federal Act and minor adjustments made to portability provisions, or the Federal Act would need to be modified in these respects.
February 26, 1969


TOTAL REVENUE FROM TAX ON BUILDING MATERIALS
Mr. Lalulippe: What is the total amount of the tax on building materials collected in all of Canada and in each province?


Hon. Jean-Pierre Cole (Minister of National Revenue):: Sales tax applicable to building materials is not segregated but is included in the total sales tax collected.



QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS


Mr. St. Pierre: 1.	How many federal government employees lived in the Yukon and Northwest Territories during the last year for which full records are available?
2.	What was total payroll in that year for these employees?
3.	Of this total, how much was Northern Living Allowance or similar type of bonus?
4.	What was the value of free or subsidized home rentals, free or subsidized home heating and other similar benefits supplied federal employees in these regions?
Return tabled.


DOUGLAS AIRCRAFT COMPANY-FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE
Mr. Skoberg: 1.	Has the Government of Canada provided any financial assistance to the Douglas Aircraft Company of Canada since its formation in 1965 and, if so, for what purposes and under what conditions?
2.	Is the Government of Canada presently considering financial assistance to the Company and, if so, for what purposes and under what conditions?
Return tabled.


EMERGENCY MEASURES ORGANIZATION-COMPOSITION AND POLICY
Mr. Robinson: 1.	What is the policy of the federal government regarding the Emergency Measures Organization?
2.	How many sub-units of EMO are established in Canada?
3.	What are the terms of reference of each EMO unit?
4.	Where are each of the EMO units located?
5.	What was the cost of each of the units during the years 1960-68 inclusive?
6.	Does the federal government provide any grants to municipalities that have EMO units?
7.	Do municipalities contribute financially to the EMO undertaking in their municipality?
Questions
8.	Do municipalities provide assistance by way of buildings and/or service to EMO and where are such provided and what is the value of same?
9 What was the total cost of EMO to Canadians in each Province of Canada for each of the years 1960-68 inclusive?
10.	What was the cost of EMO in each of the following cities: Montreal, Toronto, Winnipeg, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, London, Windsor, Ottawa, Quebec City, Victoria, Halifax, Saskatoon, Regina and St. John's?
11.	Does the federal government propose to continue this program?
12.	What service does EMO provide?
13.	How many Canadians received training through EMO in each of the years 1960-68 inclusive and what kind of training was received and what qualifications were given?
14.	Was any money spent on advertising EMO in 1960-68 inclusive and, if so, how much was spent for each of the years?
15.	What courses of training are offered by EMO and who is eligible to take the training?
16.	Is EMO co-ordinated with the Canadian Forces, are any joint exercises held and, if so, when and where was the last one held?
17.	What is the composition of EMO?
18.	Who are the Directors?
19.	How many people are directly involved in EMO?
20.	How many sub-units are there (a) where are they located (b) who is in charge of each unit
(c) how many staff people are at each location
(d) what training is carried out at each location
(e)	what courses are offered?
Return tabled.


STANDARDS FOR RADIATION
Mr. Reid: 1.	Are there standards governing the amount of permissible radiation, including X-Ray, emitted by television sets in Canada and, if so (a) what are such standards, and by what means were they arrived at, and (b) if there are no standards, for what reason?
2.	Is there a difference between Canadian standards and those of other countries, and, if so, what are the reasons for such differences, and does the government intend to change Canadian standards to bring them in line with standards of other countries and, if not, for what reason?
3.	Does the government operate a system of checks to ensure that television sets produced in Canada, and imported from abroad, conform to government standards and, if not, for what reason and, if so, what is the means of operation of this system of checks?
4.	Is the government aware of any research designed to cut down the amount of radiation and X-Ray emitted by television sets, and does the government keep a running check on developments of this nature and, if so, how does this system operate and, if not, for what reason?
5.	What department of the federal government is responsible for this problem?
Return tabled.

February 26, 1969
Motions for Papers



MOTIONS FOR PAPERS

Mr. Yves Forest (Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Privy Council):: Mr. Speaker, notices of motions Nos. 77, 78, 80 and 81 for production of papers are acceptable to the government, subject to the usual reservations concerning privileged papers and authorization of the government authorities concerned.


Mr. Speaker:: Subject to the reservations or conditions expressed by the parliamentary secretary, is it the pleasure of the house that notices of motions Nos. 77, 78, 80 and 81 be deemed to have been adopted?


Some hon. Members:: Agreed.



CORRESPONDENCE IN FIELD OF PUBLIC RELATIONS

[Stage Direction]
Motion No. 77-Mr. Howard (Skeena):
That an Order of the House do issue for a copy of all correspondence, telegrams and other documents exchanged between the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and any person or company engaged in the public relations field since July 1, 1968.
Motion agreed to.
CONTRACTS IN FIELD OF PUBLIC RELATIONS Motion No. 78-Mr. Howard (Skeena):
That an Order of the House do issue for a copy of all contracts entered into since July 1, 1968, between the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and any person or company relating to the general field of public relations.
Motion agreed to.

[Stage Direction]
Motion No. 80-Mr. Howard (Skeena):
That an Order of the House do issue for a copy of the document entitled "Employment of Indigenes in Territorial Industries" prepared in the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development.
Motion agreed to.

[Stage Direction]
Motion No. 81-Mr. Orlikow:
That an Order of the House do issue for a copy of all letters, communications, reports including 
contracts signed, exchanged between the Government of Canada and/or the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and the following companies (a) Williams and Wilson Limited, Vancouver, B.C. (b) Crockett Writers Company, Winnipeg, Manitoba (c) Berger, Tisdale, Lesly, Toronto, Ontario (d) Jacques Gay Incorporated, Quebec, P.Q.
Motion agreed to.
Yves Forest: Mr. Speaker, would you kindly call notices of motions Nos. 69, 71, 72, 73, 74 and 75?

HOMICIDES AND ASSAULTS IN PRISON Motion No. 71-Mr. Howard (Skeena):
That an Order of the House do issue for a copy of the report resulting from the study of a survey of homicides and assaults in prison.


Hon. G. J. Mcllraith (Solicitor General):: Mr. Speaker, the reports referred to in notices of motions for the production of papers Nos. 71 to 75, inclusive, are not yet complete. Therefore there are no such reports at the present time with which to meet the terms of the motion. I would ask the hon. member, in the circumstances, if he would withdraw the motions.


Mr. Frank Howard (Skeena):: Yes, Mr. Speaker. Reference was made to these documents in the annual report of the Commissioner of Penitentiaries, and I therefore assumed they were available. But in view of the explanation of the minister and conversations we had earlier about this matter, I withdraw them.
Order discharged and motion withdrawn.
BREAKING AND ENTERING OFFENDERS Motion No. 72-Mr. Howard (Skeena):
That an Order of the House do issue for a copy of the report resulting from a comparative study of Indian versus non-Indian "Break and Enter" offender types.
Order discharged and motion withdrawn.
GUARD-INMATE COMMUNICATION Motion No. 73-Mr. Howard (Skeena):
That an Order of the House do issue for a copy of the report resulting from a study of guard-inmate communication in a correctional institution.
Order discharged and motion withdrawn.
February 26. 1969	COMMONS



PAROLE AS A CORRECTIONAL INSTRUMENT

[Stage Direction]
Motion No. 74-Mr. Howard (Skeena):
That an Order of the House do issue for a copy of the report resulting from the study of the effectiveness of parole as a correctional instrument.
Order discharged and motion withdrawn.

[Stage Direction]
Motion No. 75-Mr. Howard (Skeena):
That an Order of the House do issue for a copy of the report resulting from the study of the effect of length of imprisonment on recidivism.
Order discharged and motion withdrawn.
Yves Forest: I ask, Mr. Speaker, that the remaining notices of motions be allowed to stand.


Mr. Speaker:: Shall the remaining notices of motions be allowed to stand?


Some hon. Members:: Agreed.



ORAL QUESTION PERIOD


Hon. Robert L. Stanfield (Leader of the Opposition):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Transport arising from the statement courageously made by the minister outside the house after the question period yesterday to the effect that the public housing proposals were being held up by the federal government because one province was trying to grab as much money as possible. I ask the minister whether he made that accusation when he met the provincial ministers last weekend, and if so what explanation he received in reply.


Paul Theodore Hellyer: Mr. Speaker, I do not think it serves any useful purpose-


An hon. Member:: Don't give us that.


Paul Theodore Hellyer: -I think it is a matter of public record that one province has availed itself of the opportunities presented in the act perhaps more vigorously than some of the others.


An hon. Member:: What a crime.
DEBATES	5975
Inquiries of the Ministry


Paul Theodore Hellyer: I do not think there is anything wrong with this, except perhaps that it should be considered in the future whether or not some more appropriate balance should be worked out. I am sure my hon. friend would agree with that because his province is just as much in need of housing as are the others.


Robert Lorne Stanfield: I have a supplementary question. I wonder whether the minister would identify the province to which he referred in his statement, or whether he takes personal responsibility for the statement of one of the anonymous shadows of his office, that the province to which he was referring was Ontario.


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. I am not sure whether this line of questioning-


An hon. Member:: Oh, come on.


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. There are
rules, and these rules have to be respected by all hon. members. There is a standing rule of course that some restraint must be exercised in asking questions on statements made outside the house, and the Leader of the Opposition-


An hon. Member:: Stop making difficulties.


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. The hon. member for Edmonton West should wait to put his question of privilege until the Chair has finished speaking. I suggest to hon. members that I have exercised considerable leniency in even allowing the first question. I am not sure to what extent the line of questioning should be pursued. This is the caution which I thought I should bring to the attention of the Leader of the Opposition.


Robert Lorne Stanfield: If I may speak to the point you have raised, sir, I submit that the rule forbidding the asking of questions concerning statements made by ministers outside the house is becoming more and more irrelevant in view of the deplorable practice of the ministers of rushing out of the house following the question period, and either answering questions they would not answer in the house, or giving answers different from those they gave in the house. I submit that this rule was developed under different conditions, and was certainly not intended to apply under conditions such as we have today. I suggest in all sincerity that when a minister leaves the house and gives information on a subject on which he has been questioned inside the house, his answers should be treated for this
February 26, 1969

Inquiries of the Ministry purpose as if they had been made inside the house.
I also believe, Mr. Speaker, that I and other members of the opposition should be allowed to pursue a reasonable line of questioning.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Mr. Speaker:: Without entering into any discussion on the point raised by the Leader of the Opposition, may I say that it is because a situation of this kind was taken into account by the Chair that the original question was allowed.


Robert Lorne Stanfield: May I just ask the minister one further question, as far as I am concerned. Having regard to the statements he has made outside the house on this subject, as to these projects being ill-conceived and creating all kinds of psychological and sociological problems, will he make a statement to the house on motions at an early date justifying his position so that it can be discussed and dealt with here in this chamber?


Paul Theodore Hellyer: I shall be glad to give consideration to that suggestion. I think a more thorough discussion of some of these issues would be well worth while. If the hon. gentleman would consult with his unofficial member of the task force I think it will be found that he came to many of the conclusions which were reached by the other members of the task force, and it would be a good idea to discuss them on a suitable occasion.


Mr. T. C. Douglas (Nanaimo-Cowichan-The Islands):: In view of the fact that the minister's statement outside the house gave a great deal more information than the answers he gave inside the house, I should like to ask him now whether all the housing projects awaiting federal approval come within the category of being ill-conceived, and temporary only.


Paul Theodore Hellyer: No, Mr. Speaker. There are many which are perfectly good, and first class, and they are being processed in the normal course. What I said in that context applies, I would say, to only a small minority of projects, though to a considerable number of units.


Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas: Can the minister tell us what is holding up federal approval of the rest of the projects, since the ones to which the minister has referred represent only a small part of them?


Paul Theodore Hellyer: I think largely the length of the question period, Mr. Speaker.


Some hon. Members:: Shame!


Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas: On a question of privilege, Mr. Speaker. Here is a minister who consistently refused to answer questions put to him yesterday by the Leader of the Opposition and myself, and who then went right outside this chamber and proceeded to give information to the press. Now he refuses to answer questions arising out of the statements he made to the press. I submit that the kind of smart-alec, offhand reply-


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas: -which we have just heard is not in keeping with the dignity of this house or with the responsibility of the office the minister holds. We have tried to abide by the rules of the house and, under your very able guidance, to follow the procedures laid down for our conduct, but if smart-alec replies of this kind are to be allowed as answers to questions the opposition will have no recourse but to press matters even beyond the rules as you have outlined them today.


Mr. G. W. Baldwin (Peace River):: I have a supplementary question for the minister, Mr. Speaker, arising from the request of my hon. friend the Leader of the Opposition that the minister should make a statement on this subject. In view of the fact that, under the guise and subterfuge of dollar items, the supplementary estimates contain provision for the expenditure of many hundreds of millions of dollars under the housing program, will the minister come into the house at the beginning of next week, when these supplementary estimates will be before us, to justify and defend his position?


An hon. Member:: Some chance.


Paul Theodore Hellyer: Yes, if it is the wish of the house I would be delighted to do so.


Hon. George Hees (Prince Edward-Hastings):: A supplementary question to the Prime Minister. Is the refusal of the Minister of Transport to answer questions today in keeping with what he had in mind when he told the electors that this government intended to engage in more dialogue with parliament and the Canadian people?


Mr. Speaker:: Order.
February 26, 1969	COMMONS



INQUIRY OF THE MINISTRY

Mr. Real Caouelle (Temiscamingue):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct a question to the Minister of National Health and Welfare.
According to the supplementary estimates (B) presented to us on Monday, his department gets an increase of $2. The main estimates provided for an amount of $1,647,324,300 and the supplementary estimates adds $2 to it.
Would the minister tell us whether this amount of $2 will be used to increase family allowances in Canada?



HEALTH AND WELFARE


Mr. P. B. Rynard (Simcoe North):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to address a question to the Minister of National Health and Welfare. In view of the serious medical manpower shortage, has the minister had any meetings with the provincial ministers of health and officials of the universities to establish the feasibility of operating the medical schools during the summer months?


John Carr Munro: Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member is aware, a federal-provincial task force that is going into the whole question of medical manpower and costs has been set up and is composed of federal and provincial officials. The Ontario government is participating fully in this study.


George Harris Hees: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. In view of the serious situation of medical complexes that are trying to produce more medical graduates to alleviate the acute shortage of doctors, will the government give consideration to restoring the $2,000 per bed grant which the government cut off, as this is vitally important to producing the doctors that the country needs?


John Carr Munro: Mr. Speaker, I should like to indicate that there are much higher priorities in the education and training of medical personnel than the $2,000 per bed for hospitals.


Robert Lorne Stanfield: A supplementary question. If this is so, why has the minister and his government seen fit to reduce the annual rate of this assistance?
DEBATES	5977
Inquiries of the Ministry


John Carr Munro: As was indicated at the health ministers conference held recently, there is some necessity over the next year or year and a half, as the Leader of the Opposition has himself often said, to limit costs and expenses.


George Harris Hees: A further supplementary question, Mr. Speaker.


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. I suggest to the hon. member that there have been a number of supplementaries, and that this line of questioning is developing into a debate. I should like to pass on to another subject.



VIOLENT DISTURBANCES


Hon. Marcel Lambert (Edmonion West):: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Solicitor General. In view of the bombing of the premises of the Queen's Printer in Montreal and the earlier bombing of many other premises, including military armouries, can the Solicitor General tell the house the extent of the active investigation by the R.C.M. Police of this whole series of bomb attacks, and is there any intention of significantly increasing R.C.M. Police activities in these investigations?


George James McIlraith: Mr. Speaker, there are a great many questions wrapped up in that rather lengthy question, and if the hon. member would find it agreeable I would prefer to take this question as notice, and see whether I can bring forward a carefully worded reply at a later date.



FISHERIES


Frank Howard: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Fisheries. Could the minister recount to the house the situation on the west coast as a result of the seizure and arrest yesterday by the Department of Fisheries of a Japanese longliner that was fishing inside Canadian territorial waters or fishing zone?


Hon. Jack Davis (Minister of Fisheries):: Mr. Speaker, about this time yesterday the Canadian Fisheries Protection Vessel Tanu intercepted a Japanese fishing vessel that was operating within our 12-mile fishing limit. Its crew boarded the Japanese vessel which has
February 26, 1969

Inquiries of the Ministry been taken into Prince Rupert. The department is presently requesting that the Department of Justice take action under section 3 of the Coastal Fisheries Protection Act concerning disposal of the vessel and its cargo.


Frank Howard: Mr. Speaker, may I ask a supplementary question that is related to the entire matter of our territorial sea and fishing zones. What progress is the minister making towards the establishment of straight base lines?


John (Jack) Davis: Mr. Speaker, we are making considerable progress. The matter is under active discussion at cabinet level. I think the interception of the Japanese vessel within the 12 mile limit and the use of our new fisheries protection vessels will also make our position clear internationally.


Mr. David Anderson (Esquimalf-Saanich):: A supplementary question to the Minister of Fisheries, Mr. Speaker. Has the government of Canada given to the government of Japan or to Japanese fishing companies charts showing the area confined by the 12 mile fishing limit, which comes within our exclusive fishing zone?


John (Jack) Davis: Mr. Speaker, we have made it quite clear that our fishing zones extend 12 miles from our shores.


Mr. Lloyd R. Crouse (South Shore):: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a supplementary question to the Secretary of State for External Affairs. Can he indicate what progress is being made in his discussion with other countries towards agreement on our continental shelf rights and our straight base line legislation, which was brought before the house in 1964.


Mitchell William Sharp: Mr. Speaker, as the Minister of Fisheries has already said, there is active discussion of this matter at cabinet level. We have already had a number of discussions with various countries. They do not all agree with our position, but we are pursuing the matter.


Robert Lorne Stanfield: And getting nowhere, I suppose.


Mr. Paul St. Pierre (Coast Chilcolin):: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a supplementary question to the Secretary of State for External Affairs. In view of recent newspaper reports that the United States government does not

fully accept Canadian sovereignty with respect to the 12 mile limit off the Arctic islands, will he inform this house whether our position on this matter is being made clear to the United States government.


Mitchell William Sharp: Yes, Mr. Speaker. We have had a number of discussions wtth the United States government about the definition of our territorial waters and fishing zones. As I said, we do not always obtain agreement on our position, but we are pressing it as effectively as we can.



CANADIAN COAST GUARD


Mrs. Grace Maclnnis (Vancouver-Kings-way):: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a supplementary question to the Minister of Transport, which arises from earlier questions. Will the minister on an early occasion give us a progress report on the government's present and future plans for the coast guard service on the West coast.


Paul Theodore Hellyer: Mr. Speaker, there has been no substantial change recently, and I fail to see the urgency of discussing this matter before the estimates of the department are considered. Nevertheless, if there is some particular aspect of the question my hon. friend wishes to deal with, that could be considered.
ITranslationf



EXHIBITIONS


Mr. Georges Valade (Sainfe-Marie):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct my question to the Prime Minister, in the absence of the Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce. As press conferences on Man and His World are scheduled simultaneously in Montreal and Quebec for three o'clock, could the Prime Minister inform the house of the decision to be made by the government, through the Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce, so that parliament may get the news before the press?


Right Hon. P. E. Trudeau (Prime Minister):: Mr. Speaker, I am afraid I cannot, since the federal minister has negotiated various positions with the provincial government and the municipality and the decision to be made depends on the positions to be taken by those two authorities. Our position is known to us
February 26, 1969	COMMONS
but is conditional, of course, upon the acceptance of some proposals by other authorities on whose behalf I cannot speak.


Georges-J. Valade: A supplementary question. Can the Prime Minister tell us if the minister is to come back to the house before holding a news conference about this decision?


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: That would seem rather difficult to me, Mr. Speaker, since the news conference must take place at three o'clock. As for us, we have negotiated once more with the municipal and provincial authorities and they are as eager, I think, as the hon. member to know the outcome of such a discussion. There is no need, I believe, to wait till tomorrow at 2:30 p.m.



EXTERNAL AFFAIRS


Mr. R. N. Thompson (Red Deer):: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a question to the Secretary of State for External Affairs which is a sequel to the one I asked yesterday about the bombing attack on the Canadian T.B. hospital in Viet Nam. The Prime Minister and Secretary of State for External Affairs referred to this matter previously. Since there are conflicting reports about the well-being of Canadian personnel in the hospital, can the minister inform the house whether Canadian personnel are safe. What is the general situation, as it relates to this Canadian aid project?


Mitchell William Sharp: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to report that the two Canadians serving at the Canadian T.B. Centre at Quang Ngai, Dr. Michel Jutras and Mr. Arthur Ludwick, are well and uninjured. There was a night attack on February 23 in the vicinity of the town of Quang Ngai, apparently directed at military establishments, which resulted in damage amounting to an estimated $16,000 to the equipment T.B. Centre. Arrangements are Canadian T.B. Centre. Arrangements are being made to repair the damage and it is considered by the Canadian Medical Director of the project that there should be no interruption in services. The situation which is being kept under continuous review does not appear to warrant any evacuation of Canadian personnel at this stage.
DEBATES	5979
Inquiries of the Ministry NATIONAL CAPITAL


POSSIBILITY OF REVISION OF BUILDING HEIGHTS LIMITS
Stanley Howard Knowles: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a question either to the Minister of Public Works or to the Minister of Forestry and Rural Development in his capacity as minister responsible for the National Capital Commission. In view of recommendations made yesterday to Ottawa city council concerning building height limits in the City of Ottawa may I ask whether the federal government will revise its plan with respect to the height of the National Defence tower and other public buildings, in order to conform with these recommendations?


Hon. Jean Marchand (Minister of Forestry and Rural Development):: Mr. Speaker, this report will be studied by the National Capital Commission, which will no doubt make recommendations to the minister who in turn will inform the cabinet. We shall also have consultations with the city of Ottawa, but for the time being the situation remains unchanged.


BANKRUPTCY
Mr. Henry Latulippe (Compton):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask a question to the Minister of Justice. Would he tell the house if his department intends to take steps to intervene directly and determine why the number of bankruptcies among retail furniture dealers doubled during the first nine months of 1968?


Hon. John N. Turner (Minister of Justice):: The administration of the Bankruptcy Act, before criminal proceedings are taken, comes under the jurisdiction of my colleague, the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs.


GUYANA-SHIPMENTS OF BAUXITE TO CANADA
Mr. W. B. Nesbitt (Oxford):: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Secretary of State for External Affairs. What measures are contemplated by the government with respect to the reported announcement by the government of Guyana that all exports of bauxite to Canada will be cut off in the near future. I ask this
February 26, 1969

Inquiries of the Ministry question, Mr. Speaker, because of the serious economic consequences to Canada, and in particular to the aluminum industry, that would result if this threat were carried out?


Mitchell William Sharp: Mr. Speaker, may I take the question as notice. It is the first I have heard of the matter and I should like to examine its authenticity, as well as its possible consequences.




Mr.  R. Gordon L. Fairweather@Fundy-Royal: Mr. Speaker, is the Solicitor General able to answer the question I asked on Monday?


George James McIlraith: Mr. Speaker on Monday last, as appears at page 5847 of Hansard, the hon. member asked me the following question:
In view of assertions made publicly by Mr. Paul Akehurst of Canadian Contemporary News concerning depositions in a civil case in California indicating possible abuses of diplomatic privileges by Canadians abroad, including a possible connection with narcotics offences in Mexico, will the minister consider making a statement to the house tomorrow on this serious issue?
I replied that I would be very glad to obtain the necessary information and bring forward a reply either Tuesday or Wednesday, depending on how quickly I could get the information.
I have examined this matter carefully. The facts are that the husband of the person involved in the civil case now before courts in California is a public servant who had been posted abroad prior to 1951, but who has not been posted abroad since that time. Nothing in the files involved him in any questionable activity and there were no abuses of diplomatic privileges by him. Allegations of abuse of diplomatic privilege were brought to the government's attention many years ago and were investigated at that time, but no evidence was found to support them. Those allegations only indirectly concerned him and did not directly or indirectly involve anyone else in the Canadian diplomatic service.
The allegations concerning narcotics offences involving the party to the California litigation were investigated at the time they were made, and no basis for criminal action was discovered. The investigation did indicate that the person concerned was under the care

of a physician, and drugs that were not narcotic drugs were being prescribed for the medical condition.
Although the question by the hon. member for Fundy-Royal did not ask about other investigations, I think 1 should add that there have been investigations relating to a bankruptcy in November 1966. This last mentioned matter is still current.
As to the civil proceedings now before the courts in California, I am sure the house would not wish me to make any comment.


Mr. Fairweather:: Mr. Speaker, may I direct
a supplementary question to the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs. Did the Trustee in Bankruptcy, Phillip Marglese, formally recommend in 1967 a prosecution on this aspect of the case on the grounds of fraud and misrepresentation? If so, what action was taken as a result of that recommendation?


Hon. Ron Basford (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs):: I am not sure, Mr. Speaker, exactly what the hon. member is referring to. To which precise recommendation of fraud is he referring, and against whom was the charge to be preferred?


Right Hon. J. G. Diefenbaker (Prince Albert):: In the course of the investigation did the Solicitor General find anything messy in this case to justify the use of the word
"messy"?


George James McIlraith: Mr. Speaker, I did not use
the word "messy". I do not know where the "messiness" arose.


John George Diefenbaker: Since it has been stated that there is little foundation for some of the allegations which have been made, would the minister be willing to secure a copy of Mr. Akehurst's broadcast text and table it, so that the house may have full information.


George James McIlraith: Yes, Mr. Speaker. I obtained it immediately after it was made. I read it over carefully and I wonder whether the association with "messiness" might not lie in that text?


Mr. David Lewis (York South):: A further supplementary question arising from the minister's answer. May I ask the minister whether he has looked into or, if not, will look into certain debts alleged to be owed by the person referred to, but not named in the reply which he gave this afternoon? Certain debts are alleged to be owed by this person
February 26, 1969

to Air Canada. How long have those debts been owed, and what, if anything, has been done to collect them? Were the R.C.M.P. involved in this?


George James McIlraith: No, Mr. Speaker, the
R.C.M.P. were not involved in this. I did look into the matter. I tried to look into all aspects of it. There is a judgment of the court against the person involved. I believe that judgment has not as yet been paid. It is a current matter.


David Lewis: A further supplementary, if I may. If the minister has looked into the matter, would he inform the house how long that court judgment has been in effect and whether any steps have been taken to collect the money on the basis of that judgment?


George James McIlraith: I believe the date of the judgment, Mr. Speaker, is March 13, 1968. This is a matter of public record in the Supreme Court of Ontario. Subsequent proceedings were taken and instructions were given to the solicitors. I do not have a report and do not know what stage the solicitors have reached in carrying out their instructions.


BIAFRA-CO-OPERATION WITH CO-ORDINATOR IN RELIEF OPERATIONS-ACTION TO TERMINATE HOSTILITIES-EXECUTION OF REFUGEES
Mr. Andrew Brewin (Greenwood):: I have a question for the Secretary of State for External Affairs. In view of the statement made by President Nixon that a special co-ordinator had been appointed to aid relief operations of the Red Cross and other organizations in Bia-fra and Nigeria, will this government consider keeping in close touch with the co-ordinator, with a view to assisting any efforts he may recommend to relieve human suffering in those areas?


Mitchell William Sharp: We have been very closely in touch with all relief efforts relating to Nigeria and Biafra. We have offered to co-operate with any of those who will be making donations. I do not think it would be appropriate for us to keep in touch especially with United States co-ordinator. If there are international co-ordinators, we will keep in touch with them. There are voluntary and government relief efforts here in Canada and they are very well co-ordinated. We do not anticipate any problem in that direction.
29180-379a
Inquiries of the Ministry


Robert Lorne Stanfield: I would like to ask the Secretary of State for External Affairs if he can tell the house whether he or the government have taken any initiative with regard to bringing about a solution to the struggle in Nigeria instead of repeatedly saying that it is necessary for them to agree among themselves to stop fighting?


Mitchell William Sharp: As I said on many occasions, Mr. Speaker, there is no lack of mediators. There is lack of agreement on certain fundamental conditions. When the leaders of the Nigerian government and the Biafra authorities agree on the basis for negotiation, then we can proceed. So far there has been no fundamental agreement. There is nothing we can do about it. We stand ready to help in any way we can, once they decide they would like to get together.


Robert Lorne Stanfield: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Am I correct in assuming from what the Secretary of State for External Affairs has said, that nothing is being done with regard to this matter?


Francis Andrew Brewin: A further supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. This relates to a question I asked the minister the other day as to what had been done to implement the minister's promise given in the house on November 26 that the government would work toward a better legal framework within which humanitarian assistance could be provided to people affected by civil conflict. The minister said he would consider this and give me an answer. I am wondering if he is ready to give this answer now?


Mitchell William Sharp: Yes, Mr. Speaker. I have had an answer for a number of days. I hoped my hon. friend would ask the question again.


Mr. Woolliams:: You have your book of notes. Go ahead and read it.


Mitchell William Sharp: May I answer another question while I look for that one?


George Harris Hees: You haven't even got it? What a government!


Mitchell William Sharp: The other day, February 19, the hon. member for Egmont asked me a question which I promised to answer. He is more diligent than the hon. member for Greenwood in
February 26, 1969

Inquiries of the Ministry following up his questions, so I will answer his question first.
The hon. member for Egmont asked me whether I would investigate a recent report. I quote the hon. member's words:
All male Blafran refugees in Port Harcourt are in danger of being executed?
The report originated in a Radio Biafra broadcast of February 17 which alleged that all able bodied men in a certain refugee camp had been transferred to Port Harcourt for execution and that 120 men were executed during the week beginning February 10 at Port Harcourt.
First I would note that the Lagos government denied these reports on February 18. Second, General Hamilton, the Canadian representative on the Observer Team which visited Port Harcourt February 18 to 20 inclusive has informed me that the team visited the federal prison in Port Harcourt, and two refugee centres, the latter housing 3,000 and 4,000 refugees respectively. There was no evidence to support an allegation that all male Biafran refugees in Port Harcourt are in danger of being executed. Refugee camps appear to be well administered and are receiving medical aid and food from the Nigerian Red Cross and the International Red Cross. Many male refugees were seen and ample opportunity was afforded to them to voice their complaints or fears. None was offered. The team spoke to many civilians, including the head of the I.C.R.C. there. If 120 male refugees had been slain rumours would certainly have reached them.


Mr. David MacDonald (Egmont):: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, relating to the ministers' reply to the Leader of the Opposition with respect to the conditions being attached by both sides in order to effect some kind of cease fire. In view of the statements made last Friday by foreign affairs commissioner Arikpo referring to new proposals for a cease fire allowing for more latitude than previously mentioned by the Nigerian military government, has our government or its representatives taken any steps, particularly at this time when there is a two day truce, towards initial discussions for a cease fire?


Mitchell William Sharp: Nothing would please me more than to see an agreement between the two sides upon which the initiatives could proceed.

Now may I answer the question of the hon.
member for Greenwood-


David Samuel Horne MacDonald: I rise on a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the minister's concurrence with my view but I wonder whether he would answer my question concerning whether we are making use of the opportunity to further such discussions.


Mr. Speaker:: I remind the hon. member and the minister that we are running out of time and I notice there are a number of other members who seem to be anxious to rise to ask questions.


Mitchell William Sharp: Mr. Speaker, perhaps I might now reply to the question of the hon. member for Greenwood of February 4. We have been actively engaged in consultations with representatives of certain other countries, both at the United Nations and elsewhere concerning the co-ordination of relief to civilians who may be suffering as a result of armed conflict. We have also been in touch with the International Committee for the Red Cross. Consultations are continuing and I hope arrangements will be worked out soon for some solution of this problem in an appropriate United Nations body. The Economic and Social Council is to meet shortly. Canada is not presently a member, but some of the other countries which are represented on ECOSOC are taking the initiative for us.


CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION
Mr. Les Benjamin (Regina-Lake Centre):: Mr. Speaker, may I ask the Minister of Labour if he can advise the house whether or not he has received a report of the conciliation board in respect of the dispute between the C.B.C. and ARTEC? If he has not received this report can he tell us when he expects to receive it, and can he report to the house on the state of the situation at the moment.


Hon. Bryce S. Mackasey (Minister of Labour):: I have not yet received the report of the conciliation board headed by Professor Arthur. When I will receive this of course is entirely within the competence of the chairman of the board of conciliation to decide but indications are that it will be very soon.
February 26, 1969	COMMONS


TELEVISION
Mr. Oza  Telraull@Villeneuve: Mr. Speaker,
I would have liked to put a question to the Secretary of State, but in his absence I will direct it to his Parliamentary Secretary.
Could the Parliamentary Secretary tell us whether a final decision has been taken to provide the towns of Chapais and Chibouga-mau in the Villeneuve constituency with free television service in 1969?


Mr. Speaker:: In my opinion, that question should be put on the order paper.


VIOLENT DISTURBANCES
Mr. Roch La Salle (Jolieiie):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Solicitor General.
In view of the work done by the municipal and provincial police as well as by the R.C.M.P. as a result of a series of bombings in Montreal, could the Solicitor General tell us whether the Province of Quebec has requested that the public buildings be watched by members of the Canadian armed forces? If not, does he recognize t.hat it is essential that public buildings in Montreal be watched by the Canadian Army?


George James McIlraith: Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of any request having been made by the province for army surveillance around federally occupied buildings,-if I understood the question correctly; but there is quite close co-operation between the police forces on this whole question of bombings in the area.