1968-09-13

INTRODUCTION OF GOVERNMENT BILLS IN BILINGUAL FORM

Hon. Donald S. Macdonald (President of the Privy Council):: Mr. Speaker, I have had conversations with hon. members in various corners of the house and I understand that the house generally would agree to have government bills introduced in bilingual form.


Mr. Speaker:: Is that agreed?


Some hon. Members:: Agreed.


Mr. Speaker:: It is so ordered.



PROPOSED CONTINUATION OF PROVISIONAL RULES FOR CURRENT SESSION

Donald Stovel Macdonald: Mr. Speaker, the government has put before members of the opposition parties a number of suggestions with respect to dealing with the procedures of the house, both dealing with them on an interim basis-that is to say for the period of this particular session-and to provide a framework within which suggestions for procedural reform could be considered and dealt with by the house.
It is my understanding, Mr. Speaker, that there is not general agreement to the full nature of these suggestions put forward by the government, but it would be, in my opinion, perhaps reasonable if we could, on these particular discussions at least, proceed from the known territory in which the house has been operating for the last three sessions; that is to say, from the basis of the provisional rules which were in effect in the house up until the dissolution of parliament on April 23.
On that basis, Mr. Speaker, I suggest to the house that we adopt that particular proposal and put into effect the provisional rules as they stood on April 23, 1968 for the period of the current session, unless of course in the interim the house makes any changes. If there is agreement to that proposition then I
would be prepared to move a motion along that line.


Mr. G. W. Baldwin (Peace River):: Mr. Speaker, may I have the leave of the house to make some comments which normally I would not be able to do. We in this party are in accord that some interim arrangements should be made as soon as possible covering the 1968 session. We are not in agreement with the government as to the nature of those interim arrangements. We also feel that as soon as possible measures should be taken to undertake basic, fundamental and far reaching reforms.
[DOT] (11:10 a.m.)
These two questions are tied together and ought to be the subject of discussion and debate in the house as soon as we can reach an arrangement under which this issue may be debated.


Mr. Stanley Knowles (Winnipeg North Centre):: Mr. Speaker, I rise simply to make it clear that we in this party were willing to agree to the immediate reinstatement of the provisional rules. Since there was not unanimous agreement that this be done, we are prepared to participate in further negotiations, hoping we can arrive very shortly at something upon which we can all agree.


Mr. Real Caouelle (Temiscamingue):: Mr. Speaker, we, of the Ralliement Creditiste, have no objection to continuing with the procedure we have been using during the last session. Therefore, we are not opposed to keeping the provisional rules in force until parliament has made a decision on the necessary changes to procedure and, until then, we have no objection to using the provisional rules, as we have been doing.



EXTERNAL AID


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. Robert L. Stanfield (Leader of the Opposition):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct a question to the right hon. Prime Minister. In

September 13, 1968
Inquiries of the Ministry view of the tens of thousands of Biafrans dying weekly of starvation, and in view of the failure to date of the government of Canada to pursue with energy and concern any plan to bring assistance to those starving civilians, will the Prime Minister tell the house what measures the government of Canada proposes to take even at this late date to avert what threatens to be one of the great tragedies of modern times?


Right Hon.   P.-E. Trudeau@Prime Minister: Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Secretary of State for External Affairs to answer this question.


Hon. Mitchell Sharp (Secretary of State for External Affairs):: Mr. Speaker, no government has been more active in trying to bring to an end this horrible war in Nigeria, and no government has been more generous in providing relief supplies to deal with the great suffering and starvation existing in that country.


An hon. Member:: Can they reach Biafra?


Mitchell William Sharp: Unfortunately it has been
impossible for the International Red Cross, which is the association we have agreed upon as being the instrument best suited for the purpose, to reach agreement with the Nigerian and Biafran authorities as to an adequate route for the provision of supplies. I regret this very much. We have been working to bring about agreement, but this has not yet been possible.


Robert Lorne Stanfield: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. What pressures has Canada brought to bear on the governments of Lagos and Biafra to encourage a mutually acceptable arrangement for the shipment of relief supplies to Biafra?


Mitchell William Sharp: As much pressure as we could bring to bear, Mr. Speaker. We have been in constant contact with the government in Lagos. Nevertheless, I think the Leader of the Opposition will agree that the best instrument which can be of help in these circumstances is an international agency such as the International Red Cross, the motives of which are beyond reproach. That body could do this work most effectively. I take it that hon. gentlemen on this side of the house and on the other side will agree that we ought to continue to work through the International Red Cross.


Robert Lorne Stanfield: A further supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Does the Secretary of State for External Affairs not agree that this matter is of such concern to the conscience of mankind that steps ought to be taken through the United Nations to bring pressure to bear on Britain, the U.S.S.R. and all those who supply arms to the combatants in Nigeria, and to bring pressure to bear through the United Nations to permit international agencies of the United Nations to bring relief to the starving people of Biafra?


Mitchell William Sharp: I agree with the hon. gentleman who leads the opposition that it is incumbent on all the peoples of the world to try to bring to an end this conflict which is causing so much suffering. I can assure the hon. gentleman that the Canadian government is as active in this connection as any other government in the world, and it is our desire, as it is his, that this conflict be ended. At the moment, however, the situation is this. The question has been referred to the Organization for African Unity, and the people of Africa have an even greater interest than have the people in any other part of the world in bringing this conflict to an end. We believe that if efforts are to be made to bring this matter before the United Nations that action should be taken, at this time at least, by those who are seized with the problem immediately, that is to say the African states themselves.


Robert Lorne Stanfield: Am I to understand that the position taken by the government is that the niceties of international arrangements are to stand in the way of the relief, or of effective pressure to bring relief, to tens of thousands who are in need?


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please.


Mr. Andrew Brewin (Greenwood):: Has the
Canadian government been requested to lend or supply Hercules planes to transport supplies to areas of Nigeria affected by the hostilities? Has it agreed to do so and, if not, why not?


Mitchell William Sharp: The government of Canada has been asked by the International Red Cross to provide Hercules planes for the airlift which that organization had hoped to arrange. Unfortunately for all of us, after agreement has been reached with the Nigerian government the Biafran authorities refused to agree to the airlift. In these circumstances the question whether we should supply Hercules planes is at the moment hypothetical.

September 13, 1368



However, just as soon as arrangements are made for the use of an airstrip we shall be glad to provide additional aircraft.
Mr. B rewin:	May I ask the minister
whether in view of present conditions in Bia-fra the consent of the Nigerian government to the sending of planes to that part of the country might not be dispensed with in the interest of humanity?


Mitchell William Sharp: I think the hon. gentleman misunderstood me. The objection is coming from the Biafran authorities, not from the Nigerian government.


Mr. W. B. Nesbitt (Oxford):: Is the minister in a position to tell us whether any Canadian aid supplies have as yet reached Biafra? If so, can he indicate their extent?


Mitchell William Sharp: The supplies we provided were first landed in Lagos. They have now been moved forward by the International Red Cross to areas to which that body has access in Nigeria. They are being used very effectively, I can assure the hon. member, for the relief of suffering in that part of the country. I regret very much, as I am sure we all do, that these supplies have not reached Biafra, but all the fault is not on one side in this connection.


Wallace Bickford (Wally) Nesbitt: What are these supplies? Can the minister tell us?


Mr. Bernard Dumont (Frontenac):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the right hon. Prime Minister.
Could the Prime Minister say whether the government intends to intervene as concerns England-which he knows well-to stop the shipment of arms to the federal troops in Nigeria now guarding the Shell Company oil wells?


Right Hon.   P.-E. Trudeau@Prime Minister: Mr. Speaker, I should merely like to mention that the Secretary of State for External Affairs has already replied to this question, but that he might like to add something.


Bernard Dumont: Mr. Speaker, has the Shell Company contributed to the election fund of the party?


EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
David Réal Caouette: Mr. .Speaker, I wish to put a question to the right hon. Prime Minister.
Inquiries of the Ministry
The Prime Minister recently criticized rather strongly some of the activities in Manitoba of a certain Mr. Rossillon, from France. Can he tell us whether the government has lodged an official protest with the French government concerning Mr. Rossil-lon's visit to Canada?


Righi Hon.   P.-E. Trudeau@Prime Minisier: Yes, Mr. Speaker, there was a meeting between officials of the Department of External Affairs and the French ambassador to Canada, and the Canadian policy is as outlined by me during a press conference some days ago. There is a cultural agreement between France and Canada, and we are glad that France is willing to promote the development of the French culture of Canadians. We wish it would do so through cultural agreements, and we made this known to the French authorities.



LABOUR CONDITIONS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. David Lewis (York South):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the right hon. Prime Minister. In view of the absence of any reference to unemployment in the speech from the throne, and in view of the cancellation of the municipal winter works program, can the Prime Minister inform the house of the plans the government has to deal with the increase in the already high rate of unemployment which is anticipated to take place in the winter months?


Righi Hon.   P.-E. Trudeau@Prime Minisier: Yes, Mr. Speaker. There are many references in the speech from the throne to the manypronged attack on the problem of poverty. One will be to ensure that there is increased productivity and, as the hon. member knows, there are already programs under way under our manpower department to attack the problems of unemployment. The whole purpose of the government is to replace programs which are a burden on the public purse and which are not as productive as the programs with which they are being replaced and will be replaced in the future.

September 13, 1968
Inquiries of the Ministry


David Lewis: As a supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that some of the suggestions made in the throne speech are bound to take some considerable time before they have effect, has the government any immediate plans to deal with the increase in unemployment this winter by the provision of some works that would be productive and useful, or does it have any other plans that would absorb unemployment this winter?


Mr. Trudeau:: As I just said, Mr. Speaker, the other plans are that we have manpower retraining and manpower mobility programs, and in the winter months these are being increased. They will be used to employ the unemployed in a productive way and make them more productive to the economy than was the case before.


Hon. Martial Asselin (Charlevoix):: Mr. Speaker, since the winter works program is a shared cost program with the provinces, could the Prime Minister tell us if the government consulted the provinces before deciding to bring it to an end?


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: Mr. Speaker, the winter works program was discussed several times with the provinces. They knew that each year the possibility of putting an end to such works and replacing them with more productive ones was discussed and we informed the provinces this year of our decision.


Martial Asselin: Mr. Speaker, were the provinces advised before the Prime Minister made a statement? Were the provinces consulted?


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: Mr. Speaker, as I said, the provinces knew that the program was being reviewed and they were waiting for our answer. We gave them our answer, which was negative.


David Réal Caouette: Mr. Speaker, after the many protests received from Canadian municipalities, could the Prime Minister tell us whether the government contemplates reconsidering the matter of the winter works program, especially for the coming winter, with a view to using this program to fight efficiently against unemployment?


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: No, Mr. Speaker, we do not contemplate returning to that program.
(Mr. Trudeau.]
There were many protests but also a great number of congratulations from several municipalities which realized that the winter works program had not, in recent years, served its true purpose, that is the productive employment of Canadian workers in centres where the need was the greatest.



SUGGESTED INCREASE IN FEDERAL MINIMUM WAGE PROVISIONS

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. George Hees (Prince Edward-Hast-ings):: Mr. Speaker, I would like to address a question to the right hon. Prime Minister. Since the Prime Minister has stated that he agrees with the finding of the Economic Council of Canada that poverty in Canada is a national disgrace, and since the commission has reported that a great deal of this poverty occurs because people who are working are not receiving sufficient wages to enable them to bring up their families in decency and reasonable comfort, do the Prime Minister and the government intend in the very near future to increase the minimum wage as it applies to industries under federal jurisdiction, particularly as this would be an incentive or an example to the provincial governments?


Right Hon.   P.-E. Trudeau@Prime Minister: I will have to ask the Minister of Labour whether he has that under consideration.


Hon. B. S. Mackasey (Minister of Labour):: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Labour is always conscious of the needs of the working man in this country, and will give consideration to the suggestion of the hon. member.


George Harris Hees: Does the Prime Minister in the very near future intend to call a conference with the provincial premiers to discuss this very vital problem?


Pierre Elliott Trudeau: The question asked by the hon. member is one relating to wages, costs, prices and incomes. Our attack seeks to ensure that inflation will be curtailed in Canada. We believe this will be the best attack on the problem.


George Harris Hees: Can we take it then that the Prime Minister and his government intend to do absolutely nothing in this regard?


Mr. Speaker:: Order.
September 13, 1968	COMMONS



PROPOSED STEPS TO TRANSPORT AND DRY CURRENT CROP

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Jack Horner (Crowfoot):: Mr. Speaker,
I have a question for the Minister of Trade and Commerce. Having in mind the recent expensive wage settlement can he assure the house and the country that every effort will be made to get grain moving off the prairies, in view of what apparently will be a very difficult harvest and because it is of the utmost importance that grain begin to move in huge quantities?


Hon. Jean-Luc Pepin (Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce):: It goes without saying that every effort will be made to get it off. The chairman of the Canadian Wheat Board a few weeks ago indicated that this was a "wheat crisis" situation, and that 175 million bushels had to be put in position for export purposes before the closing of navigation in the seaway. This will be done in the most efficacious and most dynamic way possible.


Hon. D. S. Harkness (Calgary Centre):: What steps have been taken or are planned to handle the very large amount of damp grain likely to be harvested in western Canada this year?


Jean-Luc Pepin: I have a list of 16 items, but I think I would be cut off short if I attempted to list them now. The Canadian Wheat Board and private grain firms are at work in every part of the world in an effort to obtain new sales. As everybody knows, we have some difficulty in respect of the implementation of international grain arrangements. A meeting of exporters is taking place at Canberra this week and another meeting will take place in London in a few weeks of the price review commission question. At the same time as we try to protect fbe price structure, every opportunity is being explored to maximize our sales.


Douglas Scott Harkness: I do not know whether the
minister caught the import of my question. I asked what steps have been taken or are being planned in order to handle the large amount of damp grain which is likely to be harvested. In other words, have the interior elevators been cleared so their drying facilities and so on will be available?
DEBATES	17
Inquiries of the Ministry


Jean-Luc Pepin: I am sorry if I did not catch the purport of the hon. gentleman's question. The drying facilities are mostly at the lakehead, and in the past weeks have not been available because of the strike. I am informed, however, that these facilities will be working on a 24 hour basis now to dry as much grain as possible.


John (Jack) Henry Horner: Can the minister assure the house that during the long strike and wage negotiations no markets for Canadian wheat were lost?


Jean-Luc Pepin: I cannot give this assurance, because this is an area of psychology. I do not know whether because of the strike some importers decided to buy elsewhere. They will not tell us, anyway. However, I know of no specific case of the specific loss of a market because of that strike.


John (Jack) Henry Horner: Then, I assume there must
have been losses.


Hon. A. P. Gleave (Saskaloon-Biggar):: Mr. Speaker, since the strike at the lakehead tied up all grain movements for 57 days and the same route was also tied up prior thereto by the seaway strike, what special action is contemplated by the Minister of Transport or the Minister of Agriculture to ensure that maximum movement takes place through that channel for export and domestic use until the freeze-up ties up the waterway?


Hon. Paul Hellyer (Minister of Transport):: Mr. Speaker, every effort will be made to see that every available ship is used to transport the maximum amount of grain before freeze-up and to minimize the effects flowing from the strike to the maximum possible extent that weather will allow. We shall also add any days at the end of the season that are feasible.


Mr. John Burlon (Regina East):: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Is the minister aware that the president of a major shipping line, Mr. Peter Dalgleysh, has advocated the extension of the shipping season at Churchill? Is consideration being given to the extension of the shipping season there in order to facilitate the movement of grain?


Paul Theodore Hellyer: I am not aware of this suggestion but I know that the question of extending the shipping season at Churchill is under study with regard to both the short and the long term, as well as the possibility

September 13, 1968
Inquiries of the Ministry of using new icebreaking techniques to assist in extending the season. That matter has been under study by the department for some time and is one of the more interesting research projects that we now have under way.



PUBLIC SERVICE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Stanley Howard Knowles: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Finance. Is the government giving consideration to taking early action to increase the pensions of retired civil servants as recommended unanimously by a joint committee of the last parliament?


Hon. E. J. Benson (Minister of Finance):: This matter is under continuing consideration by the government. No decision in the matter has been made at this time.


Stanley Howard Knowles: May we expect a decision on the matter in the next few weeks?


Edgar John Benson: In due course, Mr. Speaker.



RESEARCH


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Bruce Howard (Okanagan Boundary):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources. What are the government's plans regarding the future use of the Mount Kobau site and the Queen Elizabeth observatory in British Columbia?


Hon. J. J. Greene (Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources):: Mr. Speaker, we are consulting universities, government departments and our own astronomers have under very serious consideration a more useful application for this site. Investigations are not yet complete but every effort will be made to find a valid and useful application for it.


Mr. Frank Howard (Skeena):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask the minister whether he would be prepared to make public these studies by scientists into this program and its discontinuance. Will he make those studies public?


John James Greene: I will consider the hon. member's suggestion.


Gerald William Baldwin: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask the minister whether he does not think it essential to keep this instrument in service in order to keep in touch with the high cost of living.


EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Lloyd R. Crouse (South Shore):: Mr. Speaker, in view of the unrest in western Europe over the rape of Czechoslovakia by the Soviet union I should like to ask the Secretary of State for External Affairs whether any action has been taken by the Canadian government to strengthen our commitment to NATO in the interest of restoring world peace?


Mitchell William Sharp: Mr. Speaker, the Canadian government continues to be a member of NATO and is participating in all the discussions which are taking place in respect of the implications of the invasion of Czechoslovakia. Our position in that respect remains unchanged.



IMMIGRATION


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr.  R. Gordon L. Fairweather@Fundy-Royal: Mr. Speaker, has the Canadian government made arrangements with our embassies in Europe to make sure that the Czechoslovakian people who want to come to Canada may do so easily?


Mitchell William Sharp: I could answer that question in part, but I think if would be more properly directed to the minister of immigration.


Mr. Fairweather:: I would like an answer, and I do not really care who gives it.


Hon. Allan J. MacEschen (Minister of Manpower and Immigration):: Mr. Speaker, let me assure my hon. friend that special arrangements have been made with all our immigration officers in Europe to treat Czechoslovakian refugees on a priority basis. A
September 13, 1968

relaxation of procedures has been undertaken so that refugees interested in coming to Canada may be processed as speedily as possible.


Robert Gordon Lee Fairweather: Did these special
arrangements include having the embassy in Vienna remain open on Labour day?


Douglas Scott Harkness: Mr. Speaker, what special financial arrangements have been made to assist these Czechoslovakian immigrants to come to Canada and to establish themselves here after they arrive?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: Mr. Speaker, special
arrangements have been made and we are attempting to treat these refugees as the Canadian government treated Hungarian refugees some years ago. Where necessary financial assistance will be available to help them or to pay their transportation costs and the settling-in costs of these refugees in Canada.


Douglas Scott Harkness: What is the per capita financial assistance that is provided?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: Mr. Speaker, there is no way of determining the per capita amount. Each refugee will have to be treated as an individual case. Normally we would help or pay the transportation costs and their settling-in expenses in Canada, at least until they are able to obtain self sustaining employment. We have not enough experience as yet to know what the per capita cost will be, and I am sure it will vary in individual cases.


Douglas Scott Harkness: Has the minister any idea what length of time this support will continue after the refugees arrive here and until they find employment, learn the language and so forth?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: I do not think it is possible to say how long this will be necessary. We may get a very adaptable group of refugees with a high degree of skills, and it may be in many cases that it will not be necessary to provide any kind of settling-in assistance. I cannot give any estimate of the required length of time.


Frank Howard: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask the minister whether he is prepared to make available these very generous provisions and the relaxation of the regulations to assist those refugees who have
Inquiries of the Ministry escaped from red China and are now in Hong Kong. Perhaps the minister did not hear my question or does not intend to answer it. Would he like me to rephrase it?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: I have not given that question any consideration as yet.


Frank Howard: Obviously.


Mr. R. N. Thompson (Red Deer):: Mr. Speaker, while we are dealing with the subject of Czechoslovakian refugees perhaps I could ask the minister of immigration or the Secretary of State for External Affairs whether the flow of refugees already arriving in Canada includes only those Czechoslovakians who were caught outside that country at the time of the Russian occupation, or whether there are refugees coming now who left after that occupation.


Mitchell William Sharp: Mr. Speaker, we are prepared to deal with all Czechoslovakian refugees on the same basis. I think the hon. gentleman will also understand that our concern is in respect of the Czechoslovakian people as a whole, including those who got out of the country and those who remain. He must also be aware that we should be very careful in dealing with this question so that we do not in any way prejudice the safety and well being of those Czechoslovaks who cannot get out.


Francis Andrew Brewin: Mr. Speaker, would the minister of immigration inquire into the allegations that Czechoslovakian refugees who have applied to Canadian offices in Dusseldorf, Cologne and Vienna have been told it will take at least two months before they obtain visas?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: I think this situation may have prevailed before the special instructions went out to all immigration officers. Certainly at the present time there is no justification whatever for this statement being made or for this practice to be followed. It is not necessary to wait that length of time at all.


Robert Lorne Stanfield: Mr. Speaker, would the minister indicate to the house when these special instructions went out to which he has just referred?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: I do not have the date before me, but certainly the instructions went out early last week, just as soon as it was possible to determine the extent of the problem and to examine the procedures

September 13, 1968
Inquiries of the Ministry necessary to meet it. These instructions are now in application, and refugees in Europe will be treated under these relaxed provisions.



DOMINION-PROVINCIAL RELATIONS CHURCHILL, MAN.-NEGOTIATIONS ON DEVELOPMENT OF TOWNSITE

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Robert Simpson (Churchill):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask the Prime Minister whether he is in a position at this time to indicate when representatives of his government will be ready to confer with representatives of the province of Manitoba in relation to the recommended development of the townsite of Chin-chill, Manitoba?


Right Hon.   P.-E. Trudeau@Prime Minister: Mr. Speaker, I talked to the premier of Manitoba quite recently, and I indicated to him as I indicate to the house that I will look into this. It is a new problem for me, but not for the government. We will make sure that any undue red tape is cut away and that the matter is dealt with expeditiously.



TRANSPORT


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. J. A. MacLean (Malpeque):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to address a question to the Minister of Public Works and ask when he will be in a position to make a statement with regard to the progress being made as to means which will be used by the government to honour its commitment to build a causeway to Prince Edward Island.


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh.


Hon. Arthur Laing (Minister of Public Works):: Mr. Speaker, I thought the hon. member might have addressed this question to his colleague the hon. member for Hillsborough (Mr. Macquarrie), who I think made a statement on this subject the other day. I want to tell the house that the hon. member for Hillsborough apparently knows more than I do.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Mr. Coates:: What else is new?


Arthur Laing: I am surprised that hon. members opposite applaud

a statement by a member of their party that the project is not being proceeded with. I would assure the house that this matter is under continuing and most intense study in relation to other projects that are contemplated to relieve the economic situation in that area. When a decision is taken, I am quite certain it will be made in this house.


Mr. Donald Maclnnis (Cape Breton-Easi Richmond):: Mr. Speaker, I would ask the minister what he did with McNaughton's bulldozer.


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh.



AIR TRANSPORT


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Wallace Bickford (Wally) Nesbitt: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Transport. In view of the fact that the unpleasant habit of hijacking aircraft has now spread to Canada, would the minister look into the possibility of ensuring that passengers armed with dangerous weapons do not go aboard aircraft?


Paul Theodore Hellyer: Mr. Speaker, this would be extremely difficult to do, but I can assure my hon. friend that all the people concerned about this trend, the air line pilots, the Department of Transport, the air lines themselves and the Canadian Transportation Commission, are continuously monitoring every possible, reasonable step that can be taken in this regard. I think my hon. friend will appreciate the difficulties involved. The people concerned in this sort of situation are usually, in a sense, irrational, and it is very difficult to preconceive all the circumstances under which an incident might arise.



INDIAN AFFAIRS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Frank Howard: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development. In the light of the conferences which are currently taking place under the Indian Act, which are attended by native Indian people and officials of the Indian affairs branch, will the minister take steps
September 13, 1988

to ensure that members of parliament interested in this field have an opportunity, officially, to attend these conferences- because parliament will be the body which has to legislate in this respect-in order that they may glean the views of the native people?


Hon. Jean Chretien (Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development):: Mr. Speaker, at each of those consultations, I sent an invitation to the members concerned in the province where they were held and I intend to continue inviting all the hon. members of this house to attend the consultations at the provincial level.


Robert Simpson: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. I wonder whether the minister would give consideration to the provision and paying of legal counsel for the Indian band representatives attending these meetings.


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: Mr. Speaker, we are taking all the necessary means to help the Indians be well prepared for those consultations.
As for the consultations now under way, they are the first series. This is an entirely new process for the Indians. We understand their difficulties, but I can assure the hon. member that there will be a second series of consultations and, at that time, the Indians will be still better prepared to contribute to the conferences.


Robert Simpson: A further supplementary
question, Mr. Speaker. I wonder whether the minister could assure the house that this request which I have put forward will be given consideration, and that it will be legal counsel of the Indian people's choice?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: Mr. Speaker, I shall examine this possibility.



AIRPORTS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Gilbert Rondeau (Shefford):: Mr. Speaker, my question is addressed to the
Inquiries of the Ministry Minister of Transport. Could the minister inform the house about an eventual decision of his department as regards the construction of an international airport at Farnham, or in the eastern townships?


Paul Theodore Hellyer: Mr. Speaker, I am not yet in a position to indicate to the house which site will be chosen for the international airport. A number of regions were studied by the consulting engineers who were retained for that purpose. They have made their recommendations to the department. More recently we have been in consultation with the provincial government to discuss with them the provision of ground services-for example, the ground transportation-to whatever site might be chosen. These discussions will continue at the technical level, and it is my hope that we can take a decision with respect to the site sometime before the first of December.


David Réal Caouette: Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question. Could the minister also consider the construction of an international airport at Rouyn-Noranda?


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. Hon. members will notice that I have exercised considerable leniency this morning, but I hope hon. members will not take advantage of the situation to promote the construction of airports in all the constituencies of Canada.


Mr. Andre Forlin (Loibiniere):: Mr. Speaker, could the Minister of Transport tell me when construction will begin for the Vic-toriaville regional airport?


Mr. Speaker:: Order. May I suggest that this question be entered first in orders of the day.



REQUEST FOR INCREASE IN CASH ADVANCES On the orders of the day:


Mr. R. R. Soulham (Qu'Appelle-Moose Mountain):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to

September 13, 1968
Inquiries of the Ministry direct my question to the Minister of Agriculture. In view of the fact that western farmers are suffering from a dire shortage of cash due to the low grain marketings, would the minister assure the house that the proposed legislation to provide double the amount of interest free cash advances on farm stored grain will receive top priority in the government's legislative program for this session?


Hon. H. A. Olson (Minister of Agriculture):: Mr. Speaker, with regard to the priorities of the government's legislative program, I suppose this question would be more properly directed to the house leader or the Prime Minister. However, I think indications have been given a number of times through the press that this matter does have high priority now.



TRANSPORTATION


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Robert Carman Coates: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Transport. Can the minister indicate the government's intentions with regard to the chronic and long time problems relating to transportation in the Atlantic provinces?


Paul Theodore Hellyer: Mr. Speaker, we are concerned with this subject. It is one of very real importance not just to the region involved but to all of Canada. The Canadian Transportation Commission is undertaking studies in relation to the transportation problems of the Atlantic region and I hope they will have a report, at least of an interim nature, perhaps some time later this year.
In addition, we still hope some ideas will be coming forward from the Atlantic premiers. We can discuss later all the ideas which are available, in the hope that we can do something constructive to improve the transportation facilities in that part of the country.


Robert Carman Coates: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Would the minister indicate whether it is his intention to have the standing committee on transport and communications once again visit the area and receive briefs? Would he also indicate whether the government intends to provide any special assistance with regard to the l.c.l. rates that have

been imposed, which are exorbitant and are causing great hardship at the present time to shippers in the Atlantic provinces?


Paul Theodore Hellyer: On the first question, Mr. Speaker, the government's position has not changed in respect of a possible visit of the parliamentary committee to the Atlantic region. This is a matter that will have to be considered by the committee when it is formed and has chosen a chairman. We will be glad to discuss with the committee, through the chairman, what might be done once the committee is formed. With regard to the second question, I am not in a position to comment in detail at this moment.


Mr. James McGrath (St. John's East):: Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question. Could the minister indicate whether he has received protests regarding the abandonment of the C.N. passenger service in Newfoundland and the decision of the Canadian Transport Commission in relation thereto, and what action is contemplated by the government?


Paul Theodore Hellyer: I have received protests, Mr. Speaker. I think my hon. friend will agree that we all regret the abandonment of passenger services in various parts of the country. This is part of a change in the way of living of our society to which it is difficult to adjust, but my hon. friend will also agree that technological changes are taking place in our society and that the trend is to the greater use of aeroplanes and road transportation. It is also a fact that as the cost of train travel rises and the number of people who use the train service declines, it becomes increasingly impossible to maintain all the services which have been provided in the past. That is the reason, I presume, the Canadian Transport Commission has allowed the abandonment. I regret, as does my hon. friend, the inconvenience caused to some people, but it seems to be part of a trend that is more or less irresistible.


James Aloysius McGrath: Mr. Speaker, I have another supplementary question. Would the minister give consideration to withholding a decision in this matter until the committee has had a chance to sit in Newfoundland?


Paul Theodore Hellyer: I am not sure I have the power to do that, Mr. Speaker. I think this is a matter for the Canadian Transport Commission. However, I believe this decision is subject to appeal, and to the best of my
September 13, 1968

Inquiries of the Ministry
knowledge-although I could be wrong-no	NATIONAL PARKS
appeal has been launched up to the present	Quebec-negotiations respecting
time.	ESTABLISHMENT


Mr. John Lundrigan (Gander-Twillingale):: Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question which I wish to direct to the Minister of Transport, asking why only the Newfoundland railway passenger service was discontinued in view of the fact that all C.N. rail passenger services across Canada are costing money. Bearing this in mind, when are plans to be finalized for the discontinuance of railway passenger services in other provinces of Canada?


Mr. Speaker:: Order. This question might be considered argumentative.



INQUIRIES OF THE MINISTRY

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Roland Godin (Portneuf):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the hon. Minister of Forestry and Rural Development.
Could the hon. minister inform us of the results of his conversations with the premier of the province of Quebec in June last concerning the Lauzon shipyards?


Hon. Jean Marchand (Minister of Forestry and Rural Development):: Mr. Speaker, I believe this is public property and was published in the newspapers.


Mr. Rene Matte (Champlain):: Mr. Speaker, has the Prime Minister considered the possibility of applying some Social Credit financial solutions to achieve his just society?


Gilbert F. Rondeau: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct a question to the right hon. Prime Minister.
Could he tell us whether he intends to introduce at an early date legislation providing for the creation of a commission to look after the political appointment of defeated candidates in the next election, as often happens these days?


Right Hon.   P.-E. Trudeau@Prime Minister: 


Mr.   Speaker-Mr. Speaker@: Order. The question is out of order.
On the orders of the day:


Mr. Gilles Marceau (Lapointe):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development.
Is it true that negotiations are under way at the present time between Quebec and Ottawa, as to the establishment of national parks in the province of Quebec?


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien: Mr. Speaker, I will meet the hon. Minister of Tourism of the province of Quebec, here, next Wednesday, so as to discuss this very important subject.



ARTS, LETTERS AND SCIENCES

[Stage Direction]
REQUEST FOR GRANT BY FOLK ARTS COUNCIL On the orders of the day:
Mr. Stanley Haidasz (Parkdale):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask the Secretary of State whether he is in a position today to announce whether the Treasury Board will support the urgent request of the Canadian Folk Arts Council for a federal grant to travel to Mexico to take part in a cultural program at the Olympic games.


Hon. Gerard Pelletier (Secretary of State):: Mr. Speaker, maybe this question has not been settled to the complete satisfaction of the Folk Arts Council, but the department acted to the best of its ability and knowledge.



VETERANS AFFAIRS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Right Hon. J. G. Diefenbaker (Prince Albert):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Veterans Affairs-prefacing it by my congratulations to him on assuming that portfolio-and ask him whether, in view of the serious situation among many veterans, the government proposes to bring in legislation in this session to implement the recommendations of Mr. Justice Woods.

September 13, 1968
Inquiries of the Ministry


Hon. Jean-Eudes Dube (Minister of Veterans Affairs):: Mr. Speaker, I am grateful to the right hon. member for Prince Albert for his kind remarks. Of course I will do my utmost to be worthy of the confidence which has been vested in me, and will work for the welfare of veterans in Canada in a just society.
In reply to his question may I say it is our intention to have the Woods committee report referred to the House of Commons committee on veterans affairs as quickly as possible, and to act on the recommendations of that committee as soon as we receive them.


Mr. H. Russell MacEwan (Central Nova):: Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question. I wish to ask the minister whether he or the government is taking action at this time to provide further funds for veterans under the Veterans Land Act.


Jean-Eudes Dubé: Mr. Speaker, the amount made available under the V.L.A. was $74 million, which is 25 per cent more than the average for the past five years. This amount is being taken up very quickly, but we must remember that the veterans will have until 1974 to avail themselves of this fund.


Stanley Howard Knowles: I have a supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. When the report of the Woods committee is referred to the veterans affairs committee, will that committee also be given authority to consider the position of those living on the war veterans allowance?


Jean-Eudes Dubé: Of course it is up to the house to specify the exact terms of reference which will be made to the committee.



PROHIBITION ON SALE OF CANADIAN TURBOT IN U.S.

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
James Aloysius McGrath: have a question for the Secretary of State for External Affairs. Has the minister made any recommendations to Washington regarding the recent decision of the U.S. government to prohibit the sale of Canadian turbot on the U.S. market under the brand name of Greenland halibut? This represents about $11 million a year to the Canadian fisheries.


Mitchell William Sharp: I can assure the hon. member that this matter has been very much

engaging the attention of the Department of External Affairs, which has been working on behalf of Canadian producers.



HARBOURS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Barry Mather (Surrey):: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Transport. Can he say whether representations have been received from municipalities and other groups in British Columbia protesting the proposed route of the Roberts Bank railroad? If so, what consideration has been given to this matter?


Paul Theodore Hellyer: Representations have been received from a number of groups and from a number of British Columbia members of parliament, one of whom was the hon. member for New Westminster. The siting of the proposed railway line is a provincial responsibility in so far as it is a provincial railway being built within a province, and therefore the choice of the site and the responsibility for it comes under the jurisdiction of the provincial government. At the same time I do not think anyone could disclaim interest in this problem, which is of considerable importance to the people in the lower mainland and indeed to all Canadians. I can tell my hon. friend that as late as yesterday, I believe, the two major railways involved have again been in consultation with the local municipalities concerned, and discussions are continuing. I understand also there is now a liaison with the regional planning board for the lower mainland.



HOUSING


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
David Lewis: Mr. Speaker, I have a question to direct to the Minister of Transport in his capacity as minister in charge of housing. In view of the absence of any specific reference to housing in the Speech from the Throne, is he preparing any legislation to put before this session of parliament to deal with the growing housing crisis and the very serious, galloping increases in rents in Canada?
September 13, 1968


Paul Theodore Hellyer: Mr. Speaker, the conclusion should not be drawn, because there is no reference in the Speech from the Throne, that there will not be legislation dealing with this subject.


David Lewis: This is why I am asking the question.


Paul Theodore Hellyer: I should like to answer it if the hon. member will give me the opportunity. The task force which is beginning its work in Ottawa on Monday will, I hope, report to the Canadian people and to the government of Canada by the end of the year. It is my expectation that following this report legislation will be introduced in parliament, probably in the latter part of this session but hopefully in time to have some influence on next year's construction program.


David Lewis: Will the minister inform the house whether the object of the task force, which I understand from press reports he is heading, is to find some solution to the problem or for the minister to indicate to the people coming before it what his solutions are?


Paul Theodore Hellyer: I am sure my hon. friend would not be so lacking in charity as to believe that this inquiry is not a genuine search for the facts related to this very serious problem in our country, and also to obtain from all interested parties everywhere in Canada all of the ideas they may have in respect of possible solutions. This is the purpose of the task force. If in the process I can make any contributions, along with the other members of the task force, the hon. member can be assured I shall be happy to do so.


David Lewis: May I ask a further supplementary question? In view of the many inquiries undertaken and reports published over the years on this problem, will the minister be kind enough to inform the house what areas of facts he is so ignorant about that he requires a further task force?


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please.


Mr. Robert McCleave (Halifax-East Hants):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask the minister about the studies conducted by his predecessor in this field. Is there no information available from these studies that could assist the minister in arriving at a decision on this subject?
Inquiries of the Ministry


Wallace Bickford (Wally) Nesbitt: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask the minister whether he is making any plans, prior to receiving the report of the task force to which reference has been made, to alleviate the very urgent housing situation in Canada, and particularly with regard to the possibility of funds being made available for the conversion of old homes into emergency housing emits?


Paul Theodore Hellyer: Every effort is being made to increase the supply of housing, which in the long run is going to be the best solution to the housing crisis. I am sure the hon. member will be pleased to know that the anticipated rate of production this year is going to exceed the government's goal of 175,000 units and may go as high as 185,000 units. This is a step in the right direction, and it includes the whole range of construction from apartment buildings to single family units, reconversions and so on. I think we are making giant steps forward but the need is great and there is more to be done.


Mr. Lome Nyslrom (Yorklon-Melville):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Transport who is also in charge of housing. Is anything being done about the housing crisis that is facing university students? As the house knows, this is a very serious problem all across Canada, especially at this time of year. Is anything specific being done in this connection?


Paul Theodore Hellyer: Yes, Mr. Speaker. Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation is making loans in the amount of millions of dollars for this purpose.


Lorne Edmund Nystrom: A supplementary question. Could the minister indicate whether any students have camped on his lawn in the past few days?


Paul Theodore Hellyer: Many of them.



CONSUMER AFFAIRS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. A. D. Hales (Wellington):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs. Has the minister taken or does he propose to take any steps to prevent an increase in the price of bread to Canadian consumers, who are already overburdened by high food costs

September 13, 1968
Inquiries of the Ministry while our western granaries are filled to capacity?


Hon.   Ron. Basford@Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs: Mr. Speaker, the questions of prices and costs were referred to in the Speech from the Throne. A further statement on these subjects will be made by the Prime Minister.


Alfred Dryden Hales: May I ask a supplementary question? Can the Prime Minister advise the house when we may expect this statement?


Right Hon.   P.-E. Trudeau@Prime Minister: Mr. Speaker, consultations have been conducted with our officials and representatives of the provinces. I have also begun consultations with representatives of labour and management. Our aim is to draw up a white paper which will be submitted for consideration as soon as the consultations have proven conclusive one way or the other.



AGRICULTURE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Don Mazankowski (Vegreville):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask the Minister of Agriculture whether any consideration has been given to restoring immediately to its former level the bonus on premium grade hogs. If not, is any other form of incentive being considered by which we might encourage the production of quality bacon?


Horace Andrew (Bud) Olson: Mr. Speaker, I am sure my hon. friend is aware of our new grading procedures for determining high quality hogs. I am sure these will be beneficial in encouraging production of the kind of hog that is most acceptable to the consumer.



MANITOBA-PROVISIONS FOR HARVESTING GRAIN AND POTATOES

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Ed Schreyer (Selkirk):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Agriculture. Can he say whether officials of his department are engaged in drawing up contingency programs to be applied in the event the grain and potato harvesting situation in Manitoba worsens?


Horace Andrew (Bud) Olson: Yes, Mr. Speaker. Of course the Department of Agriculture has responsibility for the Board of Grain Commissioners, which in turn
[Mr. Hales.)
administers the terminals at Moose Jaw, Saskatoon, Calgary, Edmonton and Lethbridge. There are in those terminals facilities for drying about 7,000 bushels of grain per hour. We are taking steps now to make sure there is sufficient space around these drying facilities so they can be used if and when they are needed. What we need even more, however, is three or four weeks of bright sunshine, which would obviate the necessity for using these facilities. I can assure my hon. friend that steps are being taken to make the maximum use of the facilities.



QUEBEC-INQUIRY AS TO DAIRY POLICY

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Gilbert F. Rondeau: Mr. Speaker I should like to put a supplementary question to the Minister of Agriculture whom I congratulate on his new appointment.
While the minister is reviewing the western grain policy, could he also consider a dairy policy for eastern Canada and the province of Quebec and let us know about it in the near future?


Horace Andrew (Bud) Olson: We have had consultations with the Canadian Dairy Commission and with many producers in Quebec as well as elsewhere in eastern Canada concerning their particular commodities and problems. As a matter of fact, about a week ago I made a trip to Quebec city and I had interesting discussions with some farmers who were there that evening. As a result I am better acquainted with some of their problems.


David Réal Caouette: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a supplementary question to the Minister of Agriculture who will easily grasp its meaning since he is a former Social Crediter.
I would like to know if the Minister of Agriculture knows about the matter and if he is now making some arrangements to have the subsidies paid to the milk producers, as they are complaining that they have not received anything since April and it is now almost October.


Horace Andrew (Bud) Olson: If there are any Quebec producers who are not receiving their payments from the dairy commission, I would be very happy to have the matter investigated if the hon. member would send me the names of the particular producers he has in mind.
September 13, 1968



FARM MACHINERY


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Paul Yewchuck (Athabasca):: Mr. Speaker, I should also like to address my question to the Minister of Agriculture. It concerns the prices of farm products and farm machinery. As the house knows, prices of farm products have not gone up in the past 15 to 20 years to any significant degree; yet prices of farm machinery have more than doubled in that period. Could the minister tell me what specific steps he is taking to introduce some measure of stability in regard to the price of farm machinery so as to enable the farmers to continue their farming operations?


Mr. Speaker:: Order. I suggest that this question as asked should be answered by way of a statement on motions rather than by way of an answer at this time.



INDUSTRY


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Edward Broadbenl (Oshawa-Whitby):: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce. Has the auto pact between Canada and the United States been renewed? If not, is it likely to be?


Jean-Luc Pepin: It is not necessary for the agreement to be renewed, since it was signed for an indefinite period. What we saw these past few days was a review of the Canada-U.S. agreement, and I feel that the review, as already mentioned, has been concluded to the satisfaction of Canadian producers.
There were talks also between the minister and Canadian manufacturers of automobiles and parts. Those talks are to be resumed at the beginning of next year. This is to make sure that the automobile agreement will bring the best possible results in the best interest of Canadians.


John Edward Broadbent: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. In the recent negotiations or discussions did the Canadian government make any effort with the Canadian automotive companies and also with their parent
Inquiries of the Ministry firms in the United States to bring about, if possible, similar pricing policies on both sides of the border, that is to say, policies established by the companies themselves and not by the dealers?


Jean-Luc Pepin: Mr. Speaker, this is a very broad problem. I was not on my feet at the right time this morning, Mr. Speaker, and I was supposed to table, as I will do on Monday, letters received from the automobile manufacturers in Canada giving me assurance that they fully agree with the spirit of the present operation of the pact and that they intend to continue to do so. I have also said previously to the press that I have received from the three or four most important manufacturers some idea of their intentions for the year 1969. These intentions have been reviewed and have been found satisfactory by the department and the minister. I also met with the auto parts manufacturers and answered most of their questions, I think. In this morning's Financial Post they declare that they are optimistic about the future. So I think that the situation in this field is one in which we can all take pride. Pricing policies are not under my control, but I understand that the differential between U.S. and Canadian prices is getting narrower.


David Lewis: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Would the minister also consider tabling, either on Monday or some day soon, the result of the review of the auto parts agreement which he said had already been concluded? Have there been any changes, etc. and, if so, can we see what they are?


Jean-Luc Pepin: Mr. Speaker, I issued a
communique about two weeks ago and I will table it at the same time as the letters to which I referred.


EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. David Anderson (Esquimalf-Saanich):: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Secretary of State for External Affairs. The press reported recently that the Canadian government had received an invitation from the government of Nigeria to send observers to the areas of conflict in that country. Would the minister inform the house whether or not such invitation has been received and, if so,

September 13, 1368
Inquiries of the Ministry whether or not the Canadian government intends to send observers?


Mitchell William Sharp: Mr. Speaker, the Canadian government and the governments of Britain, Poland and Sweden, the United Nations Organization and the Organization for African Unity all received invitations of this kind. As the Prime Minister stated in his press conference yesterday, we have very serious misgivings about this proposal and are not altogether satisfied that the conditions relating to the activities of such observers are adequate for the purpose. We want to be sure that the observer can have freedom of access and so on.
However, acceptances have now been received by the Nigerian federal government from Sweden, Britain and the United Nations Organization, and notwithstanding our misgivings we feel that if there is going to be an international team of this kind we should participate. Its purpose, as the house knows, is to observe the conduct of the military operations and to avoid slaughter if possible.
Therefore, Mr. Speaker, the government has decided in principle to send an observer. He is Major General W. A. Milroy, who is currently commandant of the Canadian land forces command and staff college at Kingston, Ontario. I will be issuing a statement today on the conditions relating to Canadian participation.


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. William Knowles (Norfolk-Haldimand):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of National Revenue but in his absence perhaps I may direct it to the Minister of Agriculture inasmuch as it concerns both departments. My question relates to the importation of United States corn into southwestern Ontario at the time of our harvest season. I am sure the minister is aware of this situation. What steps are being taken to speed up action by the department concerned to impose protective duties on a temporary basis so that our corn harvest may proceed in an orderly manner?


Horace Andrew (Bud) Olson: Mr. Speaker, I do not think the solution is quite as simple as putting up temporary barriers for this harvest season. One of the basic problems with corn marketing in southern
[Mr. Anderson.)
Ontario is the need for an orderly system of marketing that will assure the users of this commodity a uniform supply and quality. There is also need to equate the returns on corn to the growers with the requirements of the users including the feeders who, I am sure my hon. friend realizes, must remain competitive in the North American market.
This problem has been under active consideration. I have had two meetings with representatives of the corn producers and we are exploring several suggested ways of dealing with the problem as a result of the market price having been lowered this year.



THE CANADIAN ECONOMY


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mrs. Grace Maclnnis (Vancouver-Queens-way):: Mr. Speaker, my question is addressed to the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs. In view* of the continuing rise in the cost of living would the minister say what immediate steps he has in mind to protect the living standards of the consumers, and does he plan to contact the provincial governments in regard to this matter?


Hon. Ron Basford (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs):: Mr. Speaker, the government, as the Prime Minister stated just a few moments ago, is having consultations on the question of prices and costs. In the course of the summer a number of our officials consulted with the provinces on this question.



EDUCATION


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
André-Gilles Fortin: Can the
Prime Minister tell us whether he considers closed the intervention of the federal government in the matter of St. Leonard?


Right Hon.   P.-E. Trudeau@Prime Minister: Mr. Speaker, as concerns the protection of public liberties, the task will not be over so long as we have not reached our aim: the insertion in the Canadian constitution of a charter of public liberties binding on all levels of government. As regards school matters specifically, the hon. member knows that they do not come under our jurisdiction and that not only is the matter not closed but that it has not yet started.
September 13, 1968	COMMONS



POST OFFICE DEPARTMENT


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Norman Cafik (Ontario):: Mr. Speaker,
I wish to direct a question to the Postmaster General. During the time of the postal strike a number of rural mail carriers in my riding who are under contract with the Post Office Department were available for work but did not receive payment. I wonder whether the minister intends to make certain that these people are paid. If not, why not?


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Hon. Eric W. Kierans (Postmasler General):: Mr. Speaker, obviously any strike affects not only those who go on strike but all those whose operations are affected thereby. An automobile strike affects parts manufacturers, and so on. It is true that those letter carriers, both rural and in city service, who contract to deliver mail were not paid during the time of the strike because there was nothing for them to do. No letters were mailed and no such services were needed.


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh.


Eric William Kierans: Prior to the strike the department advised all those with whom it had contracts that their services would be suspended for the duration of that strike. One good example is the Rod Service strike. The strikers rebelled against the company and the company itself made an ex gratia payment. The government will not lose thereby.


Alfred Dryden Hales: A supplementary question to the Postmaster General. When the government drew up these contracts with the rural mail carriers was there any provision in them to take care of such a situation?


Eric William Kierans: In the contract there is a clause which says that the Post Office Department can change routes, lengthen them, diminish them or reduce services partially. In these cases there would obviously be a change in the rates of payment.


Mr. Robert Muir (Cape Breion-The Sydneys):: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Is the Postmaster General not aware that many of these rural mail carriers were told to stand by? Some of them had to be on call every day. This prevented them from taking 29180-3
DEBATES	29
Inquiries of the Ministry other employment. Would the minister also please reply to the letter I sent him some weeks ago on this subject?


Eric William Kierans: We advised all field directors and postmasters to advise those with whom they had contracts that the services they perform would not be needed. In one case in particular the postmaster of an area interpreted the contract badly and we have stood by our responsibilities and undertaken to pay that contractor who was told to be on standby, although we shall do so only when the proof is made available to us.


Mr. Gerald Laniel (Beauharnois):: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Postmaster General a supplementary question.
Is he aware of a clause in the contracts providing that the Postmaster General will have to give a 50 per cent compensation for breach of contract in case of failure to give three months notice? Consequently, I daresay this clause might allow the department to grant a 50 per cent compensation to the contractors.


Eric William Kierans: That clause does not apply in the case of a strike or in the case of services rendered by contractors, where rural and urban services are concerned. That particular clause applies only when it is decided to cancel the contract.


Gérald Laniel: Mr. Speaker, I wish to put a supplementary question.
In my opinion, the notice which was sent by the Post Office Department to the contractors for a discontinuance of service, represents all the same a temporary breach of contract.


Mr. Speaker:: Order. This has developed into an argument, a debate.



AGRICULTURE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Bernard Dumont: Mr. Speaker, I wish to put a question to the Minister of Agriculture.
In view of the feed grain harvest in eastern Canada, has the minister agreed to grant priority to the transportation of livestock feed grain to eastern Canada?
September 13, 1968

The Address-Mr. Corbin


Horace Andrew (Bud) Olson: Mr. Speaker, I am not sure how much grain the Canadian Feed Grain Board had to bring into eastern Canada by rail while the strike was on at the Lakehead but I know they were taking steps to make certain that a sufficient quantity of feed grain was on hand to meet immediate requirements. They have also advised me that they are taking steps to make sure that sufficient quantities are in position to take care of the ensuing feeding season.


Mr. Speaker:: Orders of the day.


Donald Stovel Macdonald: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, in view of the time and considering that the house would normally rise at one o'clock, I think there might be general agreement in the house not to rise at one but to permit the hon. gentlemen to complete their customary speeches even though that may mean that we sit beyond the customary hour of rising. Perhaps that could be made an order of the house.


Mr. Speaker:: Is it agreed?


Some hon. Members:: Agreed.



SPEECH FROM THE THRONE


[Stage Direction]
The house proceeded to the consideration of the speech delivered by His Excellency the Governor General at the opening of the session.
Mr. Eymard Corbin (Madawaska-Victoria):: Mr. Speaker, first of all I wish to congratulate you on your election as Speaker of the house. The remarks made yesterday by the right hon. Prime Minister Mr. Trudeau, by the hon. Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. Stanfield) and by the leaders of the other parties showed beyond any doubt that you will have the wholehearted support of the members of this house in the discharge of your duties.
Mr. Speaker, the honour which is mine in moving the Address in Reply to the Speech from the Throne is reflected upon the proud population of Madawaska-Victoria, which I represent here, and upon the whole of New Brunswick. I therefore thank my colleagues for the welcome they gave me.

The right hon. Prime Minister probably entrusted me with this task partly sis a result of the warm welcome which he received in June from the people of my riding. He was only the second prime minister of Canada to come to Edmundston to meet the constituents; the first one wsis Sir Wilfrid Laurier, at the end of the last century. I wish to join my colleagues and my constituents in congratulating the right hon. Prime Minister on his victory and that of the Liberal party at the June 25 election.
The number of new people and young faces which we see for the first time in the house today makes us realize that the June election brought about a welcome rejuvenation in Canadian politics. This perhaps establishes a precedent, but it is also a sure sign that Canadians of all ages are anxious to take an active interest in the affairs of the country. I think that the youth of our Prime Minister, his dynamic personality, his tenacity, and the courage with which he faces our many problems as well as the sincere determination of the members of his cabinet to work for the country have given us a new confidence in Canada as it enters into its second century.
I must also offer my best wishes to the hon. leader of the official opposition and congratulate him upon his personal victory. I am sure that I will find in him a good colleague from the maritimes.
Allow me, on behalf of my colleagues from New Brunswick, to congratulate my predecessor who represented Madawaska-Res-tigouche for six years and is our new Minister of Veterans Affairs (Mr. Dube). I am pleased also to call attention to the presence among us of the young 23-year-old member for Gloucester (Mr. Breau) who inherited the riding from the former minister of fisheries (Mr. Robichaud) who is now sitting in the other place.
Mr. Speaker, the short time at my disposal does not allow me to praise my riding as I would like to do. I will therefore summarize my thoughts in words used so many times by other hon. members in praise of their own ridings and fellow citizens: "You could not find a more beautiful region in the whole of Canada."
My riding is adjacent both to the American border and the Quebec provincial borders, so that we do not think of ourselves as being
September 13, 1968	COMMONS
ordinary Canadians and we often pride ourselves on living in the "Republic of Mada-waska", without pretending however to an international mission or role. We have very cordial relations with the Americans of the state of Maine. On the other hand, a high percentage of our people comes from the province of Quebec, and we are fortunate to maintain excellent relations with these neighbours as well.
One factor which contributes greatly to a Canadian-American rapprochement in the "land of Madawaska" is, besides three international bridges, a ubiquitous American television station with its network of retransmitting stations, broadcasting its programs from the other shore of the St. John river. We are lucky to be able to enjoy that service and it often happens, however paradoxical it may seem, that my fellow-citizens are better informed of events taking place in Portland or in Washington than of those occurring in the national or in the provincial capital.
Such a condition can be explained by a lack of a reliable service provided by a far-reaching French-Canadian television station. There is a good national English network service. We are not complaining about that. But in a constituency where 80 per cent of the population is of French origin and culture and is French-speaking, we must admit that we are far from being satisfied with the French television service at the present time.
There would be several possible solutions, but I will not bother you with that to-day.
What must be well understood in the first place is that the French language television services in Madawaska-Victoria and in New Brunswick are generally inadequate, if not downright disappointing. Considering the justifiable complaints received for more than 12 years from the French population all over New Brunswick, we shall soon have to find a solution acceptable to the majority. Perhaps it will not surprise you either, Mr. Speaker, to hear that in New Brunswick an ever growing number of English-speaking citizens would really like to enjoy the French culture and the French language. In fact as far as the citizens of New Brunswick are concerned,
I believe this would give a real boost to national unity.
Hearings by the Canadian Radio Television Council are to be held soon on that point in Moncton and we trust that a remedy to this situation will at last be found.
With regard to present modes of communication between Madawaska-Victoria and the
29180-3J
DEBATES	31
The Address-Mr. Corbin rest of Canada, one must say that the situation has not evolved very much since 1867 compared with the rest of the country. The railroad remains the best mode of transport between Edmundston and Quebec, Montreal, Toronto and Halifax. There is a total lack of air transport. Still, we look more and more to this mode of transport to alleviate our isolation.
On the other hand, the planned corridor road to the neighbouring state of Maine, between the south of New Brunswick and the eastern townships in Quebec, would not likely help our regional economy. The individuals or groups supporting the construction of this route are in earnest about the success of this project, but I oppose it with all my might and I am convinced that my colleague for Temiscouata (Mr. Gendron) agrees wholeheartedly with me in this regard. The so-called Maine corridor-route would indeed be detrimental to the economy of Madawaska-Victoria, to that of northern New Brunswick, of Temiscouata, and all the people settled along the traditional line of communieaiotn between the Maritimes and the heart of Canada would be harmed. If there is a transportation problem in the Maritimes, and we all agree there is, it should be worked out through a Canadian solution.
[DOT] (12:30 p.m.)

I wish to take this opportunity to say how proud I am to represent the Indians of my riding. There are two Indian bands in Madawaska-Victoria. The largest, and perhaps the most progressive of all the Indian communities in the maritimes, is located at Tobique; a much smaller band of Maliseets is located near my home in Edmundston. It had been my intention to talk about some of the very real problems affecting the social evolution of the Indians of New Brunswick, but these problems are not specific to our area. Furthermore, since the seconder of the address, the hon. member for Kamloops-Cariboo (Mr. Marchand), is himself privileged to be a descendant of Canada's first citizens, and the first Canadian Indian to sit in this house, I feel he is most qualified to speak on the subject and I have no hesitation in declaring that the Indians of Canada will have a strong voice to speak on their behalf.

Mr. Speaker, I welcome with a great deal of satisfaction and a deep gratitude, the proposed reform of the Official Languages of
September 13, 1968

The Address-Mr. Corbin Canada Act which is mentioned in the Speech from the Throne. That new Official Languages Act will be based on certain recommendations oi the royal commission on bilingualism and biculturalism of which the late Mr. Andre Laurendeau was one of the architects. I never met Mr. Laurendeau but I always read his columns with a great deal of interest. The man is gone but his spirit remains. I am confident that the new legislation on the official languages of Canada will further strengthen our national unity and will bridge the few gaps brought about by repeated attacks against our federative system. It is in that sense that I am especially happy to read in the Speech from the Throne that constitutional reforms remain the best long-term guarantee of Canadian unity and that discussions with the provinces will continue in that direction.
Those statements, Mr. Speaker, were quite warmly welcomed by French-speaking residents in New Brunswick. The contents of the Speech from the Throne are, no doubt, also comforting for all the French Canadians living outside Quebec. It is desirable that English-speaking people living within majority French-speaking groups may also be able to avail themselves of all the benefits provided to them by this new legislation.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Eymard G. Corbin: I represent here the English element of Madawaska-Victoria. Already, I know that my English-speaking constituents approve these projected reforms, which guarantee their own rights as well as those of the French language. It is in this direction that we want to advance in New Brunswick and in Canada. We had to wait a long time for such reforms, but are happy to see that they will finally be seriously submitted to the house.
I have given special attention to the recent statements of the right hon. Prime Minister to the effect that regional economic disparities may threaten national unity, as much as our linguistic and cultural differences.
[DOT] (12:40 p.m.)
Those are true words for us in the Mari-times who are looking forward to moving again towards the benefits of a just Canadian society and of a prosperous national economy.
We all noticed in the Speech from the Throne these words emphasizing the necessity of taking fundamental steps toward the
fMr. Corbin.]
betterment and welfare of the Canadian people, the straightening out of possible deviations, the redeeming of sins of omission and the atoning of past mistakes so as to give every citizen an equal opportunity.
I have not yet had the chance to learn about regional problems throughout Canada, but the presence here of members from every part of the country will give me this opportunity. The fact remains however that the economy of the Atlantic region is greatly in need of help, above and beyond anything that has been done for it so far. We shall not be necessarily satisfied with new programs. It is quite possible that rectifying mistakes might bring about more quickly that just society so greatly desired by Canadians and of which this government gives us the assurance.
There has developed in our riding of Madawaska-Victoria in particular, as well as in other regions of Canada, in the last several years, an attitude which I call one of stretched out hands to the government. That way of life has met with the disapproval of many citizens. I am not discussing here the necessity and the real value of numerous public programs of social welfare in which several levels of government take part but I see to what extent an important sector of the population-not to say whole regions-has become completely dependent on the government.
We are really privileged to live in a country which can afford such programs in the first place. But one knows to what extent abuse and dependence on social welfare programs can lead to a real deterioration of human activity and how such abuse shows scorn for those who earn their daily bread by the sweat of their brow. That is why we must continue to search together for solutions such as, for instance, the retraining of manpower and other similar measures bringing about tangible and lasting results.
To face this problem, a group of well-informed and far-sighted men set up in my riding, hardly three years ago, a regional development council for north-western New Brunswick (CRANO). Farming has been rapidly outdistanced in the last decades by the tremendous improvement of technology and weakened, as everywhere else in Canada, by the ever-increasing problems of marketing, which put small farms out of business.
CRANO is now considering all areas of economic activity in the designated areas and defining a development plan which will have
September 13, 1968	COMMONS
far-reaching effects if it can be implemented. Of that, I am quite sure.
Just to give you an example, CRANO is endeavouring to create a touristic industry, since the geographical attractions have remained so far utterly unexploited. In this connection, an important touristic project looks auspicious at Grand Falls, in Victoria county, and our citizens are very seriously considering other sites.
We are dealing, Mr. Speaker, with people anxious to study the best ways to better their condition. These people do not want to rely any more on government's charity alone. They have shown up to this day their desire and their ability to assume their own responsibilities. Their action will, in the end, reduce considerably the number of people depending on social welfare.

Mr. Speaker, I am Canadian, first and foremost. I belong to that generation, still young, born between the great depression and the second world war. It is with a very deep sense of concern that I sit in this house with colleagues devoted to the growth and the unity of our country. I feel a certain apprehension before the enormous task that lies ahead, and yet we must now get down to serious work.
tTranslation]
Before coming to this house, Mr. Speaker, I worked as a newspaperman. I have always found that journalists and politicians both play a very significant role in the general guidance of public opinion and the common weal. Journalists must concern themselves with telling the facts and commenting them in the light of the people and events affected by them. Politicians and political decisions are quite often at the centre of things. To gain favour with the public, politicians and journalists must be mainly concerned with having a highly developed respect for truth, not always an easy thing nowadays.
However, it is with such an attitude and frame of mind that I wish to represent my constituents of Madawaska-Victoria and to work in the general interests of my country. Besides I can not see how, in the present situation, what would be good for Madawaska-Victoria would not also be good for Canada as a whole.
DEBATES	33
The Address-Mr. Len Marchand
Before I yield to the hon. member for Kamloops-Cariboo (Mr. Marchand) and with his support, I move:
That the following Address be presented to His Excellency the Governor General of Canada:
To His Excellency the Right Hon. Roland Miche-ner. Chancellor and Principal Companion of the Order of Canada, who was awarded the Canadian Forces' Decoration, Governor General and Commander-in-Chief of Canada.
May it please Your Excellency:
We. Her Majesty's most loyal and dutiful subjects, the House of Commons of Canada, in parliament assembled, beg leave to offer our humble thanks to Your Excellency for the gracious speech which Your Excellency has addressed to both Houses of Parliament.
[DOT] (12:50 p.m.)


Mr. Speaker:: The hon. member for
Kamloops-Cariboo.


Mr. Len Marchand (Kamloops-Cariboo):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. members of this house for the warm welcome they have extended to me. I am deeply conscious of the honour that has been paid to me in being allowed to speak at this time, an honour shared by my family and my constituents. I should like to thank the Prime Minister (Mr. Trudeau) and his Cabinet colleagues for extending it to me.
Canada has seen many changes in the years since confederation. There have been many changes in society and many changes in government; but there is a special significance in the change brought about by the last election. We have now our first prime minister who was born in this century, a man who may very well be the agency through which Sir Wilfrid Laurier's famous phrase that the twentieth century belongs to Canada may come true. In any case, Canada now truly belongs to the twentieth century.
Our new Prime Minister has shown that Canadians who are dedicated to purposes beyond their own selfish ends can rise rapidly in public life. He has shown that Canadian people will respond to a challenge when that challenge is made clear to them. His career is a demonstration of what we have all known; that in Canada there are thousands, millions of people who believe in the destiny of our land, who believe that we can live together as civilized people, and who believe that we can overcome the barriers of the past-the barriers of language and of prejudice, barriers set up in too many places, and barriers which may hold back those who are not of the majority.
34	COMMONS
The Address-Mr. Len Marchand
Here in Canada we may seek our goals and, so long as they are not in conflict with the public good, we are free to press onward. When the Prime Minister came to my riding of Kamloops-Cariboo he spoke to the people as though he had known them all his life, and they responded as though they had known him all their lives. Indeed in a certain sense they had, for he is to us all the exemplification of all the best that is present in the Canadian people and of all that is good in Canadian education. He is a man of many talents, a man for all seasons, a man of his times, and above all a man for his country and his countrymen. I am proud that my party, the Liberal party, has found this man who so specially meets the needs of our country, a man who has the special qualifications to meet the problems of today.
There is another historic point this session. We have, for the first time, a Speaker elected on a non-party basis. Mr. Speaker, I congratulate you, sir, for you have richly earned the confidence of the house.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Len Marchand: I have watched Mr. Speaker from another part of the house many times. I was going to say from up above, but perhaps it might have providential implications. He has always shown unfailing courtesy, tact and wisdom; he has brought the house through many a tricky and sometimes difficult situation. This promises to be a great parliament, a parliament with many challenges, many problems, much work and much to do, but with a great deal of capability to meet the challenges of the times ahead.
Mr. Speaker, as you know, I represent the riding of Kamloops-Cariboo. I am conscious that this part of British Columbia has returned great men to parliament. I am conscious that I am taking the place of a great parliamentarian, a man of whom my constituents have been justly proud.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Len Marchand: I hope I can fulfil the expectations of those who supported me, for there were many of them. As I stand here today to speak on behalf of all persuasions in my constituency I am mindful of the obligation and responsibility I have accepted. My constituency is large; it is a rich and varied part of a great and prosperous country; it has within it mines, forests, people engaged in the raising of cattle, sports

DEBATES	September 13, 1988
fishing, hunting	and recreational areas
unsurpassed in all of Canada.
The natural wealth of this area is being developed by people who have the virtues which made it possible for Canada to be the country it is. Within the borders of my riding lies the first settlement in the interior of British Columbia, the site of the gold rush of the 1850's which began the real development of that great province. The spirit of those who came first, of those who opened that country, lives on in the hearts of the people today; not the greed which sometimes drove man to the goldfields but the courage, perseverance and the will to endure that enabled man to press on through the unexplored wilderness and make his home. My ancestors were there to greet them.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Len Marchand: Working together the people have created a vigorous community, a community of people who are not afraid of the future, people who believe in Canada and who love it deeply.
There are in British Columbia abundant natural resources. These are richly rewarding, not just to those who work directly to develop them but to all Canada. Although they are rich and although they are abundant, these resources require wise management. They must not be torn from their natural setting with no thought for another day.
[DOT] (1:00 p.m.)
If we are to continue with our prosperous life, our resources must be developed and used for the maximum benefit today, as well as the maximum long term benefit. This means planning. This means direction and leadership so that the planning will be in the best interests of all. We have abundant water in Kamloops-Cariboo, but others are not so fortunate. To divert and use this water without adequate planning would serve no one. The only way to benefit all who depend upon this resource is to plan the use in the best interest of the area affected. It is self-evident from our over-all abundance that the needs of Canadians can be fulfilled. It is equally self-evident that in fulfilling these needs we must consider future needs, which may not always be clear without full study.
I am confident the government will show the way by continuing the work of the water resources branch of the Department of Energy, Mines and Resources. I am confident that
September 13, 1968

the government will provide the way by continuing the regional planning and resource use studies which have been so helpful in recent years. With the security of knowing that the best advice possible has been obtained, resource use can be planned in the best interests of all.
This planning must extend to other matters than the use of our resources. It must extend to the future of our economy so that the capabilities of the people are utilized to the best possible extent. An example of the planned benefits which can assist an area can be found in the extension of assistance to truck haulers who bring feed grains into British Columbia. This has meant that the cattle rancher is no longer only a herdsman, but can now get the maximum from his herd. He can fatten his stock and prepare it for the marketplace.
In my riding there is unexcelled range land. The hills and valleys are excellent for raising animals. With the opportunities now available the feed lots will expand and Kamloops will become one of the important areas providing meat for Canadian tables. I hope that members will not misjudge me when I say that the sun-soaked Thompson valley, the wooded north Thompson and the upper reaches of the Fraser make the finest and best riding a member can have the honour to represent.
The people who live in this area are Canadians with all the virtues and defects that other Canadians share. We are no different from others, and we are first of all Canadians. Most are English speaking, at least that is their primary language in day to day life. However, when the Prime Minister spoke to them, partly in French, they cheered. Many of them have told me they intend to learn to speak French. They want to make their fellow Canadians from any part of Canada feel at home when they come to visit, and they want to feel at home in any part of Canada they visit.
These do not seem to be extravagant demands. In fact they seem small. If we can approach our problem of unity in this spirit, other problems can be solved. And they can be solved by the good will of the people, because the people insist that this is one country with two official languages. This country contains divers peoples, some of whom speak French, some of whom speak English and some who speak other languages. Some of them speak Cree and some speak Shuswap, but all are Canadians. I said that
The Address-Mr. Len Marchand when the people heard their Prime Minister speak French they cheered. They cheered even though few understood what was being said; they cheered because his message came from the heart and they recognized this. With this spirit who could say we cannot solve our problems?
Among our problems are those which concern the Indian people. I am the first Indian to sit as a member in this house and I am conscious of my responsibilities. I recognize that the people of Kamloops-Cariboo did not send me here to represent only a segment of that population. I know I must strive on behalf of all my constituents. However, I have an obligation which I could not escape if I wished to, and that is my obligation to my fellow Indians. I am an Indian who is a member of parliament. I am not just the Indian people's member; but I must speak as well on their behalf.
Hon. members know that the situation of many Indian families is deplorable. We all know that in respect of income, standards of health and living conditions many Indian people are below that standard of acceptability in this country. They are isolated from their fellow Canadians and they are shut off from many aspects of Canadian life. I do not think that racial discrimination is a factor. In view of the honour the people of Kamloops-Cariboo have paid me how could I feel otherwise? It is just a cruel historical fact of life beyond the control of the Indian people. The efforts to bring them into the world of today and to their rightful place in Canada must continue.
I must pay tribute to the right hon. gentleman who sits on the opposite side of the house and who is responsible for extending the right to vote to my fellow Indians and myself. This was a recognition of a people who needed to be recognized and who needed the assurance that they were not forgotten.
I should like also to pay tribute to the former prime minister, Mr. Pearson. It was during his term of office that the Indian people began to move ahead as they had not moved ahead before. The former minister of Indian affairs, now the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Laing) and the former prime minister did more to help the Indian people than has been done in any comparable period of Canadian history; and the Indian people responded. The last two prime ministers initiated many programs on behalf of the Indians. I know this work will continue and will become more effective in the years ahead.
September 13, 1968

The Address-Mr. Len Marchand
I would like also to pay tribute to another former minister, Hon. J. R. Nicholson, now Lieutenant-Governor of British Columbia. I should like to wish him well in his new duties.
Let me also make reference to some of the great work done by two former members of this house who have gone on to the happy hunting ground, Hon. Guy Favreau and Hon. Rene Tremblay. Much of this great work that was done during Mr. Pearson's regime, was started when these men were in office.
The cost of neglecting this social problem, left unsolved for too long, is very great. This cost in terms of unproductive lives and misery is more than Canada can afford. I have confidence in the present Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development (Mr. Chretien). He is a man with much human understanding. I have confidence that he will do his utmost with the resources parliament makes available to ameliorate and eventually repair this damage to that part of Canadian fabric. I have confidence as well that the Indian people will respond.
Indians are a proud race. We have much in our past of which we are proud. Our culture can make an even greater contribution to Canada than the very considerable one it has already made. There is much about Indian life that is good and there is much for Canadians to learn about it. We have been held back but we are on the move today.
Consultations are now taking place with the Indian people to determine their views about the kind of Indian Act they believe will work best in their own communities. The fact that they are being consulted on such a scale and to such depth augurs well for the future. I do not believe that any country has ever before made the attempt to ascertain so thoroughly the needs of a group of people as has been the case during these discussions. Meetings have been held in the Northwest Territories, the maritimes and Ontario, and next week a team will meet with the spokesmen for the Indians of Saskatchewan. I believe that very few understand how much this means to the Indians. We can speak at those meetings of the effect of the Indian Act on our own communities, and we have an opportunity to explain the needs and the aspirations of our people. Parliament will be better prepared to debate this Indian Act than it has ever been. There is an urgency


here and I hope the new act will not be long delayed.
Not all our problems can be solved by the passing of an act by parliament. If they could, I am sure most of them would long since have been remedied. The solution to the problems of the Indian people will require a combination of effort on the part of all levels of government, of all Canadians including the Indians. With the available resources, this government has shown ample signs of being willing and ready to supply help. I believe Canadians will help when shown what is wanted of them, and the Indian people are showing many signs of their willingness to do their share. Ultimately it will be the efforts of the Indian people that will result in the solution of their problems. Ultimately it will be the Indian people, striving to overcome the barriers, who will make a solution possible.
Mr. Speaker, I hope it will always be possible for me to speak on behalf of my constituents and on behalf of the Indian people. I hope it will be possible for me to discharge both my obligations, for I am very conscious of them.
[DOT] (1:10 p.m.)
It is not important to the house that a member is, or is not, an Indian. It is not really important to the people of my riding whether I am Indian or not. It is important to the Indian people to know that one of us can become a member.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Len Marchand: It is
important for the younger Indians who are in school and at university to know that, with reasonable hope, they can aspire to become whatever they wish to become and are capable of becoming. It is important for all Canada to know that this is not a land of bigotry and prejudice. It is important for all Canadians to keep it that way.
Although the Indian people once held all this land and now have but little of it, although the Indian once was the master of his environment and is no longer, it is less than helpful to repine for a past that is gone; it is less than useful to yearn for other times when things were different. No one can turn back the clock. The useful, the important and the right thing to do is to master the environment that is. The younger Indian is using the opportunities provided for his schooling. He is taking advantage of education and of
September 13, 1968	COMMONS DEBATES	37
The Address-Mr. Len Marchand
training programs so that he can become economically independent. He is looking ahead, not looking over his shoulder at the past. In doing so, he is not giving up any of his Indian heritage. He is making that heritage into a useful instrument for living in the world of today. He is applying the good things of the past to the problems of the present to make a better future.
In this we are no different from others. All Canadians are looking forward, looking ahead into the brave world of tomorrow. We have confidence that we can solve the problems that face us, confidence in our ability to repair the damaged fabric of society.
Mr. Speaker, I am sure every member of the house agrees that Canadians today, English speaking Canadians, French speaking Canadians, Indian Canadians, every kind of Canadian-all of us are looking ahead with the confidence born of a certainty that our country is capable of doing what has to be done, of correcting the defects of today to make a world in which we can be even
prouder of being what we all are, Canadians, living in a great and fine land, a land which has much to offer the world, a land which has some problems but none that cannot be solved.

I wish I could speak French as well as my hon. friend from Madawaska-Victoria (Mr. Corbin) spoke English. Although my name is Marchand, I do not speak French very well.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Len Marchand: With
those words, Mr. Speaker, I take great pleasure in seconding the speech of His Excellency the Governor General so eloquently and graciously delivered yesterday.
On motion of Mr. Stanfield the debate was adjourned.
On motion of Mr. Macdonald (Rosedale) the house adjourned at 1.17 p.m.
39

Monday, September 16, 1968