1967-05-09

MAIN ESTIMATES, 1967-68

[Stage Direction]
A message from His Excellency the Governor General transmitting estimates for the financial year ending March 31, 1968, was presented by Hon. E. J. Benson (Minister of National Revenue and President of the Treasury Board) and read by Mr. Speaker to the house.

Hon. Paul Martin (Secretary of State for External Affairs):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to table exchanges of letters with the government of Rumania dealing with consular matters and claims. These follow the exchange of letters tabled in the house on April 4 concerning the establishment of diplomatic relations between Canada and Rumania.


Mr. Speaker:: Has the minister leave to table these documents?


Some hon. Members:: Agreed.


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. Michael Starr (Ontario):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to address a question to the right hon. Prime Minister, and ask him whether the government of Canada has made representations to His Majesty King Constantine II of the Hellenes for the immediate release of all elected political representatives and other citizens unconstitutionally arrested, and for the immediate restoration of the constitutional rights of the Greek people, their parliamentary procedures, and their right to schedule free elections.


Right Hon. L. B. Pearson (Prime Minister):: Of course we have an embassy in Athens which is keeping in touch with developments, but we have made no representations to the government of Greece of the kind suggested by the hon. gentleman.


Michael Starr: Then I would ask whether the government is considering withholding the $1.5 million granted to the Greek army as economic aid under the NATO defence assistance program until such action as I suggest has been taken.


Lester Bowles Pearson: That is another question. I shall be glad to look into it and see whether in fact those are the accurate figures.


Mr. H. W. Herridge (Kootenay West):: should like to ask the Prime Minister whether the government has received any information as to the attitude of the government of Great Britain in these circumstances.


Lester Bowles Pearson: Perhaps this information is available in the Department of External Affairs. I have not seen it as yet, but I will look into that aspect.


Mr. Eric A. Winkler (Grey-Bruce):: I should
like to direct a supplementary question to the Secretary of State for External Affairs or to the Prime Minister. Is the government aware of cases in which Canadians of Greek origin are currently being detained in Greece and, if so, is any action being taken to alleviate their situation?


Lester Bowles Pearson: I am informed we have no knowledge of any Canadians of Greek origin being detained, but we shall make direct inquiries.


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. T. C. Douglas (Burnaby-Coquillam):: May I direct a question to the Secretary of State for External Affairs regarding a press statement attributed to his parliamentary secretary to the effect that Saigon had turned down a tentative offer of a childrens' rehabilitation centre by insisting on a military hospital instead. May I ask whether this statement has reference to the children's rehabilitation centre which was proposed by Dr. Gingras and, I believe, endorsed by the minister?


Paul Joseph James Martin: Yes. As the hon. member
May 9, 1967

Inquiries of the Ministry knows, the government had been anxious to contribute to this rehabilitation centre. I have in my hand a letter which has just come in, and which I have seen for the first time, from the minister of health in South Viet Nam. It says that our proposal for a separate rehabilitation unit is an undesirable means of producing the result we have in mind. We do not agree with this, but we shall continue our discussions.


Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas: On January 9 I asked the minister a question as recorded at page 11536 of Hansard:
Is the government of South Viet Nam withholding approval in respect of Dr. Gingras' proposal because of an insistence that the doctors and members of the staff come under military medical personnel?
The minister's answer was "No, Mr. Speaker". I want to ask the minister whether the situation has changed since then.


Paul Joseph James Martin: That must have been one of the days when I was not hearing well. What was the date again?


Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas: The date was January 9. Has the situation changed, or was the minister misinformed at that time?


Mr. David MacDonald (Prince):: Yesterday the minister was reluctant to answer a question I put to him, one which suggested a solution to this problem. Can he tell us today when we may expect a report on the possibility of bringing these Vietnamese civilians to Canada for rehabilitation?


Paul Joseph James Martin: I think I indicated that this suggestion was being examined.


David Samuel Horne MacDonald: But when may we expect a final report on it?


An hon. Member:: In due course.


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. A. B. Patterson (Fraser Valley):: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources. Could he indicate to the house any decision that was reached at the recent federal-provincial conference regarding measures to be taken in the event of a flood emergency in the Fraser river valley?


Hon. Jean-Luc Pepin (Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources):: Mr. Speaker, this question should have been directed to the Minister of Industry, who is responsible for EMO. May I ask him to answer it.


Hon. C. M. Drury (Minister of Industry):: Mr. Speaker, some time ago a telegram was sent from the Prime Minister to the premier of British Columbia offering the assistance of the federal government in respect of the potential flooding situation in British Columbia. I would be glad, if it would be of interest to the house, to table that telegram and the reply to it from the premier of British Columbia. Both these have already been published, and with leave I would like to table them.
I might also add that recently during discussions between Mr. Williston of the British Columbia provincial government and my colleague the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources, Mr. Williston assured my colleague that all the necessary steps in respect of planning and preparation for floods were being taken by the province which of course has primary responsibility, and that the fullest co-operation was being exhibited between the federal and the provincial governments.


Mr. Speaker:: Has the minister leave to table the communications to which he has referred?


Some hon. Members:: Agreed.


Mr.   Paiferson@: As a supplementary question may I ask if the question of the implementation of the recommendations in the Fraser river board report was discussed in that conference?


Jean-Luc Pepin: That is under my responsibility, Mr. Speaker. I can say that the ministers have come to agreement on a certain project and Mr. Williston and myself are going to take up this project for approval by both our cabinets.


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Right Hon. J. G. Diefenbaker (Leader of the Opposition):: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Prime Minister. Some weeks ago it was stated that early action would be taken by the government regarding the case of Mr. Justice Landreville. Has the government now made a decision as to the action
May 9. 1967	COMMONS
it intends to bring before the House of Commons, and will this matter receive early attention immediately after the speech from the throne has been voted on?


Lester Bowles Pearson: Yes, Mr. Speaker, this matter will receive early attention and I hope to make an announcement before long.


John George Diefenbaker: Is the Prime Minister in a position to say that the matter will be placed before the House of Commons by way of impeachment?


Lester Bowles Pearson: Mr. Speaker, I would prefer that the right hon. gentleman wait until I make the announcement in the house concerning the course we will recommend to parliament.



FINANCE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. Marcel Lambert (Edmonton West):: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance. Since the passage of the Canada Deposit Insurance Act have the minister, his officials or any of the officers of the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation had any discussions with the government of the province of Quebec with regard to the separate scheme which that province has indicated it wishes to set up? In addition, is it the minister's information that the federally incorporated chartered banks will be subject to a double impost in the event of there being a provincial scheme?


Mr. Speaker:: Order. I suggest to the hon.
gentleman that the question should be placed on the order paper.



REQUEST FOR REPORT ON GENEVA TARIFF NEGOTIATIONS

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. E. D. Fulton (Kamloops):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask the Minister of Trade and Commerce whether he can make a report to the house in respect of the current tariff negotiations at Geneva and, in particular, whether he can say if a breakdown is as imminent as seems likely from this morning's news reports. If so, what initiative is the Canadian government taking to protect Canada's trade in wheat and other important commodities?
DEBATES	13
Inquiries of the Ministry


Hon. Roberi Winters (Minister of Trade and Commerce):: Mr. Speaker, the negotiations at Geneva have reached another of their delicate and critical stages. The secretary general has just issued a communique saying he still is hopeful that agreement can be reached through concerted effort and good will on the part of those concerned. Most negotiating teams have returned to their countries to receive further instructions. It is expected, however, that negotiations will resume later this week, probably on Friday. Sunday has been set as the termination date. It is hoped that agreement in some degree can be reached by that time.
So far as the role of the government is concerned, we have been in close consultation. I have been in Geneva myself a number of times, as have some of my colleagues. I am returning to Geneva tomorrow and will be accompanied by the chairman of the Canadian Wheat Board. A number of wheat board officers are there now, and it is likely that by the end of the week I will be joined by the Minister of Agriculture.


Edmund Davie Fulton: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a supplementary question to the minister. Apart from the movement of bodies does the government plan any new initiatives?


Robert Henry Winters: Mr. Speaker, this has been a process of continuing initiatives. I think the role of Canada is clearly understood by all our negotiating partners.


Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas: Mr. Speaker, may I ask what progress is being made toward agreement concerning cereal grains. I have particular reference to the statement which appeared in the press to the effect that the two groups of governments which were bargaining were getting close to a figure which has been mentioned as $1.72 to $1.74. Can the minister give us any information on this rather strange figure which has been quoted in the press?


Robert Henry Winters: That is purely speculative. We never have revealed the precise figure because we are negotiating; otherwise there would be no negotiation. We are, however, asking for a substantial increase over the present price under the I.W.A.


Mr. Nesbitt:: Mr. Speaker, could the Minister of Trade and Commerce tell us whether he will still be receiving the advice of the Minister of Agriculture on or about May 24?
May 9, 1967

Inquiries of the Ministry


Mr. E. Nasserden (Roslhern):: Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question for the Minister of Trade and Commerce. Did he authorize the premier of Saskatchewan to indicate that the increase in the price for wheat under the international agreement would be 20 cents?


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please.



THE BUDGET


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. George Hees (Northumberland):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct my question to the Minister of Finance. Could the minister advice the house when he expects to present his budget to the house.


Hon. Mitchell Sharp (Minister of Finance):: Mr. Speaker, the date has not yet been fixed.



DOMINION-PROVINCIAL RELATIONS STATEMENT BY QUEBEC MINISTER ON CULTURAL EXCHANGES WITH FRANCE

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Real Caouetie (Villeneuve):: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the hon. Secretary of State for External Affairs.
Is the minister aware of the wild statement made by the Quebec minister Jean-Noel Tremblay to the effect that cultural exchanges with the French government concern Quebec only, and can he state categorically what attitude the central government has adopted with regard to that touchy matter?


Hon. Paul  Marlin@Secretary of Slate for External Affairs: Mr. Speaker, I have read a report on the speech the minister made in Montreal last Sunday. If I am not mistaken, I believe he criticized us because we decided to grant subsidies to a benevolent organization known as AUPELF. I feel that in the interest of unity and amongst French-speaking countries, the help and initiative of the federal government should be supported.


David Réal Caouette: I have a supplementary question, Mr. Speaker.
Could the minister tell the house what prevents the province of Quebec from taking its own stand in this particular matter, without turning to federal members of parliament?


Mr. Speaker:: Order. The question is out of order.


Mr. Maurice Allard (Sherbrooke):: Mr. Speaker, I have asupplementary quetsion for the Secretary of State for External Affairs in connection with the statement he has just made. Can he tell the house what prevents the central government from consulting the Quebec government, as regards other French language countries-


Mr. Speaker:: Order. The hon. member's question is as much out of order as the previous one.


Maurice Allard: They are afraid to answer, Mr. Speaker. The government is lousy.



CONSULTATION RESPECTING CULTURAL AGREEMENT WITH BELGIUM

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Maurice Allard: Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question for the Secretary of State for External Affairs on the recent cultural agreement between Canada and Belgium. Has the central government consulted the provincial governments in general and the Quebec government in particular before concluding such an agreement?


Mr. Speaker:: Order. This question should be put on the order paper.


Maurice Allard: At ten o'clock, Mr. Speaker. [English]



AGRICULTURE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Eric Alfred Winkler: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Agriculture. Did he receive a request from the U.C.C., the O.F.A. and the O.F.U. for a meeting on May 24 and, if so, what was his reply?


Hon. J. J. Greene (Minister of Agriculture):: Mr. Speaker, I received such a request and also a request from the dairy farmers of Canada for a meeting, which was held last Friday afternoon. I suggested several alternative dates to the other organizations and I am awaiting their replies in this regard.


Eric Alfred Winkler: I have a supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Is it true that the reply to this request on the part of these three recognized organizations was sent on the evening of May 5 but dated May 1?


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. That question is not in order.
May 9, 19G7



FINANCE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Frank Howard (Skeena):: Mr. Speaker,
I should like to direct my question to the Minister of Finance. In view of the disastrous effects of the Carter commission report on the mining industry, particularly in British Columbia, will the minister be making an announcement soon regarding the government's intentions in respect of that aspect of the commission report relating to taxation of mining companies?


Mitchell William Sharp: Mr. Speaker, I am not in a position to answer that question today.



EXPO '67 REPORTED UNDERWORLD CONNECTIONS OF ASSOCIATED FIRMS

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Raymond Langlois (Meganlic):: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Trade and Commerce or the Solicitor General, and relates to the statement last week by the former minister of justice of Quebec, Mr. Wagner. He suggested that four companies in Montreal working at Expo were fronts for the underworld. Is the government making any inquiries in this regard and, if so, will the minister report to the house on this matter as soon as possible, if not today?


Hon. L. T. Pennell (Solicitor General):: Mr. Speaker, I have been informed by Expo officials that these allegations are being investigated by the Quebec provincial police and Expo security officials. As have officials of my department, I have been in touch with Expo officials, and the R.C.M.P. are co-operating in this investigation.


Raymond Langlois: Will the minister give further details to the house regarding this matter when the reports have been received?



CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
John George Diefenbaker: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask the Secretary of State whether the

Inquiries of the Ministry Canadian Broadcasting Corporation has entered into an arrangement or agreement with the Soviet union or the Kremlin in connection with broadcasting, and what are the terms of the arrangement, if any?


Hon. Judy V. LaMarsh (Secretary of State):: Mr. Speaker, I do not know whether they dealt with the Kremlin, but I read in the newspapers that such an agreement had been negotiated. I will have to check the information in this regard.


John George Diefenbaker: It could be with no one else if it was with Russia.



NATIONAL PARKS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Lawrence E. Kindt (Macleod):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, asking whether he has received a petition signed by 324 residents of Banff protesting his policy with respect to leases. What does he plan to do about this matter?


Hon. Arthur Laing (Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development):: Mr. Speaker, I have received a number of letters from individuals, but if a petition with 324 names has been sent this has not been drawn to my attention.



LABOUR RELATIONS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Gilles Gregoire (Lapointe):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to put a question to the Minister of Manpower and Immigration as member of the special cabinet committee inquiring into the Canada Labour Relations Board.
Is the minister in a position to say, further to the charges made by the C.N.T.U., of which he is a former president, that it could not be heard nor present its requests in French before the Canada Labour Relations Board, whether he now intends to take the necessary steps to have the French language recognized and to have simultaneous translation of the proceedings of the Canada Labour Relations Board?
May 9, 1967
Inquiries of the Ministry Mr. Speaker: I hardly think that this question is so urgent, and the hon. member may agree to put it on the order paper. If he feels I am making a mistake, he may bring it up at ten o'clock.


Gilles Grégoire: Mr. Speaker, I am putting this question precisely in view of the fact that the C.N.T.U., through its television and film employees union, is to appear in the next few days before the Canada Labour Relations Board. Consequently, it is urgent to know whether the mother tongue and the rights of these workers will be recognized.


Mr. Speaker:: Order. The hon. member has made representations to the minister.



HOUSING


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Heward Graffley (Brome-Missisquoi):: Mr. Speaker, in view of the continuing housing crisis in the country I would ask the Minister of Labour whether the government is seriously considering acting on the measures discussed in the speech from the throne, in order to stimulate spring housing starts.


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. The question is much too general in its terms and cannot be accepted.


William Heward Grafftey: It is not very general when you are looking for a house; it is a very specific problem.


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh.


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please.


Mr. J. R. Keays (Gaspe):: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the government house leader. In view of the great emphasis on housing in Canada and its problems, is the government giving consideration to setting up the standing committee on public works and housing so that we may go into this problem thoroughly and try and find some solution to it?


Hon. A. J. MacEachen (Minisier of National Health and Welfare):: Mr. Speaker, the matter of house committees is under consideration.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.



FISHERIES


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. J. M. Forrestall (Halifax):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct a question to the Minister of Fisheries. I wonder whether the minister could advise the house of the extent of the storm damage sustained by lobster fishermen particularly on the eastern and western shores of Nova Scotia; and could he advise the house whether the damage is of such proportions that the government might consider taking some immediate action to offset the loss of the season?


Hon.   H.-J. Robichaud@Minister of Fisheries: Mr. Speaker, I am fully aware that there have been a series of storms in that section of Nova Scotia which have caused serious damage to the lobster traps. I have asked the officials of my department to assess the damage and report at the earliest possible date. I am sure the hon. member is aware of the fact that any loss or disaster of this kind is also a responsibility of the province in assessing the damage and making representations to the federal government if it is found that the damage sustained is of disaster proportion and is away beyond the means of the provincial government to deal with.



BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Robert Muir (Cape Breton North and
Victoria): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the right hon. Prime Minister. Now that we have had the throne speech and the Cape Breton Development Corporation has been mentioned, can the right hon. gentleman advise us what position this legislation has on the house agenda and how soon we may expect such legislation to be introduced?
Lester Bowles Pearson: Mr. Speaker, we are making progress and will be able to make an announcement shortly.


Mr. Muir (Cape Breton North and Victoria):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct a supplementary question to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources. May I ask him whether the personnel of the corporation will be appointed prior to or after the introduction of the legislation.


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. I doubt that this question is in order.
May 9, 1967	COMMONS



WATER RESOURCES


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Herbert Wilfred Herridge: Mr. Speaker, I wish to address a question to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources which is of urgent and prime national importance. Is it correct that the federal government has accepted in principle a resolution that has been placed on the order paper for over five years by the hon. member for Kootenay West, by an agreement in principle between the federal and provincial resource ministers to establish a national advisory council on water pollution? Can the minister inform the house of any such proposal or agreement?


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. I do not think the question and the hon. member's assertions are acceptable at this time.


Herbert Wilfred Herridge: I have a supplementary
question, Mr. Speaker. In view of the interest in the water pollution council would the minister be prepared to ask the consent of the house to return to motions so as to answer my question?



FISHERIES


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. D. W. Groos (Victoria (B.C.)):: Mr. Speaker, if I may phrase my question in the idiom of my friend the hon. member for Kootenay West, I have a question for the Minister of Fisheries, of which I regret I have not given him notice, which is of vital interest to thousands upon thousands of sports fishermen everywhere and sportsmen particularly in the west. Has the minister received a telegram from the Amalgamated Conservation Society of British Columbia expressing their intense concern over his department's proposals on commercial salmon fishing boundaries in the straits of Juan de Fuca; and if so, is the minister prepared to discuss this matter further at a meeting with the society before arriving at a final decision, which he must do soon?


Hon.   H.-J. Robichaud@Minister of Fisheries: Mr. Speaker, I have received not one but a number of telegrams and letters from sports organizations regarding the matter referred to
DEBATES	17
Inquiries of the Ministry by the hon. member. A meeting has taken place between officials of my department and representatives of these sports organizations. While no definite decision has been reached, the matter is under study, and at this time I am not in a position to assure the hon. member that a further meeting will be held before a decision is reached.



CO-OPERATIVES INQUIRY AS TO INTRODUCTION OF LEGISLATION

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. S. J. Korchinski (Mackenzie):: Mr. Speaker, I have a question that I wish to direct to the Prime Minister. On April 4 the Prime Minister, in reply to a question asked by the hon. member for Lisgar (Mr. Muir), indicated that the hon. member should await the throne speech to see the proposals regarding legislation affecting co-operatives. In view of the absence of any specific mention of co-operatives, is it not now the intention of the government to proceed with any legislation in this regard?


Lester Bowles Pearson: Mr. Speaker, there are a good many pieces of legislation with which we propose to proceed that were not mentioned specifically but were included in the omnibus paragraph toward the end of the speech from the throne. Perhaps tomorrow I will be able to mention them all specifically.



HEALTH AND WELFARE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Reid Scott (Danforth):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of National Health and Welfare concerning a subject I have raised now in the house for some five years.


An hon. Member:: It cannot be urgent, then.


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh.


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please.


Reid Scott: I do not understand the reaction, Mr. Speaker, but the subject is even more urgent today than when it was first raised five years ago. It concerns the continual and continuing critical shortage of hospital beds in metropolitan Toronto, where there are long lists of people awaiting urgent
May 9, 1967

Inquiries of the Ministry surgery. In view of this continuing crisis I wonder whether the minister is now prepared to reconsider the somewhat niggardly grant made by the government-


Some hon. Members:: Order.


Reid Scott: -toward the construction of hospitals so the municipalities can expand this construction and try to take care of the long lists of people who are urgently awaiting surgery.


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. The hon. member might want to put the question on the order paper.


Reid Scott: As a supplementary question, Mr. Speaker-


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. The hon. member might also put the supplementary question on the order paper.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Reid Scott: Ten o'clock, Mr. Speaker.


Reid Scott: Mr. Speaker, I should like to rise on a question of privilege, if I may, and ask Your Honour, in view of the ruling you made on my earlier question, why it is that the health and welfare of some two million people is not a subject which can be raised as a matter of urgency on orders of the day.


Mr. Speaker:: The question raised by the hon. member is not a question of privilege, as I am sure he knows, and he should rephrase his question.



ALBERTA-NEGOTIATIONS RESPECTING FREIGHT RATES ON SHIPMENTS TO JAPAN

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Eldon M. Woolliams (Bow River):: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Transport. In view of the question asked by the hon. member for York South in reference to the important matter of the export of coal from western Canada to Japan, and in view of the minister's reply that his answer might be involved, would the minister be prepared in the next few days to made a statement on motions in reference to this large contract with Japan which has now been usurped by the C.P.R.?


Hon. J. W. Pickersgill (Minister of Transport):: Mr. Speaker, I would think that in the course of the next day or two the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources or I would be able to make some statement about this matter. I certainly hope so.


Lawrence Elliott Kindt: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Could I ask the Minister of Transport whether in making his reply he will include any discussions he has had with the Canadian Pacific Railway with respect to running a coal type commuter train between the Crowsnest pass and Port Moody, B.C.


John Whitney Pickersgill: It was not a commuter train; it was a unit train. But I think that is what the hon. member really meant.



NATIONAL DEFENCE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. L. R. Sherman (Winnipeg South):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask a question of the Minister of National Defence. I would ask the minister, in view of the excellence of the armed forces tattoo now touring the country, whether the government has given any consideration to the preparation of a film of this event so as to made it available to Canadians in smaller communities across the land.


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. I do not think this suggestion to the minister should be made by way of a question at this time.



AIR CANADA


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Thomas M. Bell (Sainf John-Albert):: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Transport. Will United States pilots be used for the DC-9's leased by Air Canada from the United States? If so, have Canadian pilots filed injunctions against Air Canada in this regard, and what is the attitude of the government?


John Whitney Pickersgill: There are so many "ifs" "ands" and "buts" in the hon. gentleman's question that I think I should get advice before answering it.


Thomas Miller Bell: Will the minister report to the house on this?
May 9, 1967	COMMONS



REPORTED U.S. PRESSURE TO REDUCE IMPORTS FROM CANADA

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
George Harris Hees: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources. In view of the repeated press reports of pressure being exerted on the Canadian government by the United States government to curb the growth of oil imports from Canada into the United States, can the minister assure the house that these oil exports to the United States, which are so necessary to Canada's economy, will be continued?


Jean-Luc Pepin: What I can say is that conversations between Canada and the United States regarding oil are now in progress, and each side is pressing its views with vigour.


Eldon Mattison Woolliams: I have a supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. In view of the importance of the question and the minister's answer will he be prepared to made a full statement in the house with regard to the government's policy on petroleum, if it has a national policy at the present time?


Jean-Luc Pepin: Mr. Speaker, I think I can make it now. Our policy is to sell as much as we can in the United States, which is part of the national oil policy.



MANITOU SEED WHEAT-REQUEST FOR REMOVAL OF EXPORT EMBARGO

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. George Muir (Lisgar):: I have a question for the Minister of Agriculture. In consideration of the fact that even at this late date there is still a large surplus of Manitou seed wheat in the hands of Canadian growers, is it the government's intention to lift the export embargo on this grain going to the United States?


John James Greene: Mr. Speaker, the last official information I had in this regard was to the effect that the agricultural association was satisfied with the policy being pursued. However, I will be glad to give it a current look.



INQUIRY OF THE MINISTRY

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Eric Alfred Winkler: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Secretary
DEBATES	13
Inquiries of the Ministry of State for External Affairs. Inasmuch as subsidized transportation costs have been mentioned in the speech from the throne I wonder whether the minister could tell us if this subsidization will be available to the 500,000 unemployed people of Canada?


Mr. Speaker:: Order.



ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Stanley Knowles (Winnipeg North Centre):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Prime Minister. In view of his indication yesterday morning that he would look into the parole aspect of the Steven Truscott case, may I ask whether he is yet in a position to make any announcement on this matter?


Lester Bowles Pearson: Mr. Speaker, I have discussed this matter with the two ministers concerned and it is not our intention to take any action at the present time.



HAL BANKS-INQUIRY AS TO LAYING OF PERJURY CHARGE

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
John George Diefenbaker: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Solicitor General. It has to do with the phantom Hal Banks. Is it true that the R.C.M.P. has come to the conclusion that it has sufficient evidence upon which to charge Banks with perjury and that it has already laid or is about to lay the necessary information?


Lawrence T. Pennell: Mr. Speaker, I have nothing to add to what the Minister of Justice stated just before the recess in reply to a similar question. If I remember correctly, at that time he informed the house that members of the R.C.M.P. were awaiting further advice from the attorney general's department.


John George Diefenbaker: May I then direct my question to the Minister of Justice. Is it a fact, as reported in the press, that the R.C.M.P. has advised the attorney general's department of Ontario that there is sufficient evidence to indict Banks for perjury, and that the R.C.M.P. has laid or is about to lay the necessary information to start the wheels of justice turning?
May 9, 1967

Inquiries of the Ministry


Mr. Speaker:: Order. I believe the question as asked is not acceptable. The right hon. Leader of the Opposition is asking the minister to confirm or deny a press statement.


John George Diefenbaker: Mr. Speaker, I was doing that to help. May I then ask the minister the following question. Is it true that the series of questions I asked are based on fact?


Hon.   P.-E. Trudeau@Minister of Justice: Mr. Speaker, the right hon. gentleman knows that in this case the administration of justice is in the hands of the provincial attorney general, that in this particular investigation the R.C.M.P. which is acting as his agent is reporting to him, and that it is he who will have the answer. Personally I do not know whether the allegations to which the right hon. gentleman has referred are well founded.


John George Diefenbaker: The government of
Canada has been very solicitous of Banks.



FINANCE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. C. S. Smallwood (Baffle River-Camrose):: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Finance with reference to the policy of the former minister regarding the investment of United States capital in Canada. Can the present Minister of Finance inform the house what steps are being taken to control United States capital investment in Canada, which according to estimates by the United States commerce department reached a record of $2.3 billion in 1967?


Mr. Speaker:: Order. The hon. member's question is much too large in scope and I do not think it can be asked now.



BANKRUPTCY


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Raymond Langlois: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Registrar General. I asked it in the latter part of the last session, and Your Honour advised me to ask it in the new session, which I am doing now. Is it the intention of the Registrar General and the government to establish a special committee in this new session to study the complaints against bankruptcies which have been made all across the country?


Hon. John N. Turner (Registrar General):: Mr. Speaker, a three man committee has been sitting for over a year studying the question of a general revision of the bankruptcy law. However, I will be glad to take the hon. member's suggestion into consideration.



EXTERNAL AID


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Wallace Bickford (Wally) Nesbitt: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Secretary of State for External Affairs. I wonder whether he can now bring us up to date on the case of the broken flour bags in India. I ask this question in view of the fact that according to press reports the minister has issued a denial of the allegations in this regard, but press reports still continue that a large quantity of our flour is being dispersed out of broken flour bags.


Hon. Paul  Marlin@Secrefary of Slate for External Affairs: Mr. Speaker, I have already made a statement on this subject. I will see whether, in view of this question, anything further should be added. However, I do not believe there is anything I can add.



PILOTAGE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Barry Mather (New Westminster):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct my question to the Minister of Transport. Now that we are in the new session I wonder whether the minister has any new information regarding the long awaited report of the pilotage commission, and when we can expect it.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Yes, sir, I have. I happened to meet the chief commissioner by accident at the launching of a ship in Quebec the other day, and he told me he hoped to have the report ready some time in June. I hope so, too.



VETERANS AFFAIRS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Alexander Bell Patterson: should like to direct my question to the Minister of Veterans Affairs and ask whether
May 9, 1967	COMMONS
he has yet received the report from the committee which is studying the question of pension rates.


Hon. Roger Teillel (Minister of Veterans Affairs):: No, Mr. Speaker, I have not yet received it.


Alexander Bell Patterson: I have a supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. I should like to ask the minister whether he would now consider the advisability of further interim increases in view of the delay in receiving this report.


Mr. Speaker:: Order. The hon. member is now making a submission, not asking a question.
[DOT] (3:20 p.m.)



SPEECH FROM THE THRONE


[Stage Direction]
The house proceeded to the consideration of the speech delivered by His Excellency the Governor General at the opening of the session.
Mr. Don Jamieson (Burin-Burgeo):: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the hon. member for Nicolet-Yamaska (Mr. Cote):
That the following address be presented to His Excellency the Governor General of Canada:
To His Excellency the Right Honourable Roland Michener, Governor General and Commander-inChief of Canada.
May it please Your Excellency:
We, Her Majesty's most loyal and dutiful subjects, the House of Commons of Canada, in parliament assembled, beg leave to offer our humble thanks to Your Excellency for the gracious speech which Your Excellency has addressed to both houses of parliament.
This, Mr. Speaker, is my first speech in this house and I know I can expect from you the tolerance and understanding for which you are so widely and properly noted.
It is my privilege to extend the thanks of this house to His Excellency the Governor General. We are proud, I am sure, that the duties of opening this historic session were performed so well by one who was so recently a member of this assembly. No one is more aware than he that he follows a truly great Canadian. Our deep sorrow at the passing of General Vanier is revived today by the proceedings of this new session. We recall the many previous openings at which he presided and the inspiration that flowed from him because of his love of country and his deep sense of dedication.
DEBATES	21
The Address-Mr. Jamieson
We remember too his most gracious wife. This house will never be more unanimous than in expressing the nation's gratitude to the Honourable Madame Vanier.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Donald Campbell Jamieson: May she enjoy many tranquil and happy years secure in the knowledge that she is held in deep affection by all Canadians.
Our new Governor General is a fitting inheritor of the tradition of selfless service. Our respect and our best wishes go with him and his charming lady as they undertake the heavy responsibilities of this centennial year.
It goes without saying, Mr. Speaker, that I am honoured to have been chosen for this assignment. I even dare to suggest that, in some respects at least, it is appropriate that at this centennial session this task should be performed by a Newfoundlander. My province has a centuries old loyalty to the crown and we are pleased, as are all Canadians, that Her Majesty the Queen is going to participate in our national celebrations.
We Newfoundlanders, sir, also have a deep and lasting loyalty to Canada. Although we have been a province for only 18 years, it is encouraging and I am sure heartwarming to all of you to know that 500,000 of your newest citizens are participating enthusiastically and with enormous pride in centennial observances.
I have to confess, Mr. Speaker, that my own loyalty to Canada was given grudgingly at first. I voted twice against becoming a Canadian. When this status was thrust upon me against my will, I had to assay Canada's worth. A stubborn recalcitrant, I demanded that this country demonstrate that it justified and warranted my loyalty. After 18 years, and against this background, let me say without qualification that today I would choose Canadian citizenship over that of any other country on earth.
I and my fellow Newfoundlanders took little part in the achievements of Canada before 1949. Therefore I can say with less self-consciousness than most that Canadians deserve to be proud of what they have done. This country has survived and flourished because its people have been prepared to fly in the face of conformity. The very existence of Canada, I suggest, proves the claim that most worthwhile things in this world are done by people who, when they are told that their dreams are vain, go on to realize them anyway.
22	COMMONS
The Address-Mr. Jamieson
This belief is not foreign to us in Newfoundland, Mr. Speaker. Our forefathers may-well have invented it. No people have clung more tenaciously to their traditions or worked harder to wrest a living from what we all know can be a cruel sea and a stern and forbidding land. By joining with you we have reaffirmed a truth that is as old as confederation. We Newfoundlanders, I believe, have demonstrated that in order to gain the new it is not necessary to disregard or eliminate the old, that new experiences can enrich an established and proud culture. Today, Mr. Speaker, while we in Newfoundland continue to give our loyalty to the land that made us we are totally committed also to the broader national objectives with which we are all so deeply concerned in this house. Thus, I suggest that the promise of confederation has been renewed and also the wisdom of its founders vindicated.
The speech from the throne made reference to the importance and value of unity with diversity. No Canadian embraces this concept with more enthusiasm than Newfoundlanders. We know that if we are to preserve those rights which we hold so dear we must show the same respect for the rights and distinctive ways of other Canadians.
The speech from the throne makes many references to the various aspects of federal-provincial relations. It seems to me that among the most important of these are the plans to continue study of the involved constitutional question. To the extent that the layman thinks about this matter, I believe it creates a measure of bafflement and perhaps vague concern-indeed, perhaps something of both.
It is imperative, of course, that this country have a workable charter, but I suggest that unless it reflects a true concensus and unless it is the product of painstaking deliberations it may well be a patchwork of harmful compromises seeking vainly to meet diverse and transient needs. It has become commonplace to say that Canada is in a period of transition, but the statement is no less true on that account. In these circumstances the decision to refer this matter for further intensive study and exploration with the provinces is a wise one.
What we do in this house, Mr. Speaker, to define national goals can have an immeasurable effect upon the resolution of constitutional problems and questions. We represent all the people of Canada. I believe we know better than most what Canadians want for their

DEBATES	May 9, 1967
country. I believe that in our frequent encounters with our constituents we learn that where needs exist it is not enough to tell our constituents that in denying them aid the various levels of government are performing in their proper constitutional manner. An appropriate division of powers is essential, of course, in our confederation, but I believe that Canadians would not long endure a system so rigidly enforced that it threatened our nationhood.
Let us make no mistake about it, Mr. Speaker. As one who has travelled widely in Canada, from the background I have described I am convinced that the basic desire of all Canadians is one of pride in the whole country. There is across this land an anxiety for and a commitment to unity. It would be tragic if specific regional needs, legitimate as these may be, were used to suppress the growing concern of Canadians with the wellbeing and welfare of their fellow citizens everywhere.
[DOT] (3:30 p.m.)
I am pleased that the speech from the throne reflects this broad outlook. I welcome the news of new regional programs. No part of Canada demonstrates more than my own riding the economic justification of such programs. Before confederation nothing stood between the people of Burin-Burgeo and stark, terrible poverty but an uncertain fishery. Today, with government assistance, many modern fish plants have been built. There are 12 within 500 miles in the southern part of my riding. Many trawlers equipped with all modern aids and equipment steam in and out of harbours where tall-masted schooners formerly sailed. Our fishermen have been freed of the curse of immobility by far reaching government programs, and in all respects a liability has been converted into an asset. A group of decent, hard working Canadians has been given an opportunity to earn a living, which is all they ask.
I say there is economic justification for these regional programs, and I welcome the strengthening of such organizations as ARDA and the Atlantic Development Board. The Atlantic Development Board has helped enormously in my riding. Today we have a massive new power development at Baie d'Espoir, resulting in the more ready availability of hydro with new benefits and new industries, the effects of which are felt throughout all Canada.
Perhaps the greatest economic revolution that has been brought about in my province
May 9, 19S7	COMMONS
has been as a consequence of the completion of the trans-Canada highway. This government is also committed to a program of trunk roads, the economic effects of which will be as great as those of the trans-Canada highway. I am sure that the benefits to the economy of my riding and to other parts of Canada will be profound.
The problems of our rural areas, Mr. Speaker, are in sharp contrast to those of our tangled urban regions. In every great metropolis and in many cities of smaller size a host of problems has come together to create a baffling and intricate crisis. No part of the speech from the throne is more important than that emphasizing the need for action in this extremely critical area. The elements of the crisis are well known to us, and the solution will require imagination, boldness and creativity. The standard answers of the past will not do nor, I suggest, is this a time for hair splitting over areas of authority. The test of leadership at all levels may be the manner in which we deal with the problems of urban development.
There is truth in the contention that even the greatest problem can be turned to advantage. The very magnitude of our difficulties in the cities gives us an opportunity to change the entire nature of our urban environment. Expo '67 graphically demonstrates that we have the talent to reshape our cities in the image of tomorrow. I hope we take advantage of our talents. I hope that in redeveloping our decayed built-up areas and in conceiving new residential sections we are not afraid of the unconventional. Let us draw on the vivid imaginations and farsighted genius of those who can add new dimensions of enjoyment to our way of life.
Here we have an opportunity, it seems to me, to free ourselves from the stifling mediocrity of most large centres. I believe that we can restore to our children of the streets their rightful heritage of broad open spaces and good, clean air. But this will not be done by cold-blooded theorists or by slide rule administrators. This is not something that will appeal to those who believe that man is content with clothes on his back, three square meals a day and a roof over his head. The challenge is to those who would free the human spirit and relieve the monotony of our every-day lives. It is to those who would create new horizons of beauty to delight the eye, new cultural experiences to stimulate the mind, and peaceful havens where we can relieve the tensions of our hurried pace. That

The Address-Mr. Jamieson dream has stirred the hearts of men since the beginning of time, and I believe that if we have the will we have the ability to make it a reality. Nothing could be a greater challenge in this our centennial year.
I am not unaware of the difficulties. I have been a member of this house now for nine months. During that time I have heeded the advice of Ecclesiastes that "there is a time to keep silence." I have also followed the advice, and good advice it is, of the right hon. Leader of the Opposition who maintains that a new member ought to keep his peace for a considerable time. There is much to learn here and much from past experience to forget. I am more conscious than before of the complexities of our system, of the intricate way in which each life touches every other life in our society and of the need not only to act but to contemplate reaction. It has been a sobering, humbling and altogether salutary experience.
I have a greater appreciation for the value of our parliamentary system and a much greater respect for those men of all parties who have devoted their lives to service in this house.
Most, I am sure, will agree that there has been a decline in public esteem for parliament. Nine months ago, as a brash observer from the outside I was prepared to assert without qualification that this house was the author of its own misfortunes. I am no longer certain. I agree, as all hon. members do, with that part of the speech from the throne which says that we must move quickly to change our rules and procedures and equip ourselves with the means of doing our task more rapidly and effectively. Since coming here I have been impressed by how much has been accomplished despite the present frustratingly slow methods. The record of the last session was one of the best in a hundred years. The work of the committees was excellent. Yet there continue to be those who regard parliament as a noisy cockpit where members are obsessed with senseless bickering and the pursuit of personal vendettas.
We are not without sin of course, but by the same token I believe we are the victims of an increasingly cynical and sceptical age. It may be cold comfort, Mr. Speaker, but parliament shares with the church, educational establishments and other institutions the ill concealed scorn of the iconoclast, the doubter, the disbeliever. The reasons for this widespread mood are varied, deep-seated and in many instances justified. It is sufficient today, sir, because of the limitation of time, to observe that material progress alone is not
May 9, 1967

The Address-Mr. Jamieson enough to solve public unrest. An increasingly acquisitive society is an increasingly uncertain society. Greater security and a higher standard of living give us more time in which to reflect on and regret the inadequacies of our way of life. At the same time, sir, we are becoming increasingly conscious of our neglect of many of those elements contributing to the totality of human existence.
The speech from the throne offers many proposals which are designed to improve the quality of our national life, and I believe that in this centennial year these may well be the most important. If we were to follow simply the dictates of materialism I suggest that we would be hard pressed to defend the case for independence. Since becoming a Canadian I have become aware that there is a rationale behind our continuing efforts to maintain our identity. It is the justifiable conviction that we can build on this part of the continent a better society than would be possible under any other arrangement. This, sir, is not a chauvinistic view, nor does it suggest that we are intellectually superior to other men. It is simply an acknowledgement that faith, geography, history and the wisdom of our founders have created a set of circumstances almost unparalleled in the opportunities they offer.
[DOT] (3:40 p.m.)
More and more Canadians are becoming aware of this potential. Not many are clear yet as to how it can be achieved. But our young people in particular are convinced that the standard, routine methods are not the answer, nor do our present values bear any great relevance to the conception they have of national objectives. This, I suggest, is why many institutions, including this house, are held in something less than awe by the younger generation which now makes up such a large part of our population.
We ought not to ignore or dismiss as inconsequential the ideas of these young people, most of whom are committed to the future of their country. They believe in it. Our task is to involve them constructively in the nationbuilding process. We must be prepared to listen to them and must convince them that they can learn something from us. Most young people know that protest is not enough. They are aware that the path to progress is not across the ruins of every value which has been built up over the centuries by wise and dedicated men. What they ask is that we re-examine the old values and add new ones which will enable us to eliminate what the 
speech from the throne calls "social injustice, cultural mediocrity and spiritual poverty."
These young people are deeply involved with the world around them. Theirs is an outward-looking nationalism which possesses a kinship with the whole of mankind. We might well emulate their desire to share our bounty not only with those who come among us but with those in other lands who in this shrinking world are in every sense our next door neighbours. I hope and believe that this house will endorse wholly and enthusiastically the plans in the speech from the throne to humanize still further our immigration policies and to expand our foreign aid commitments.
The role of Canada in the world, however, does not consist merely in providing money, supplies and skills to the underdeveloped countries. We have demonstrated repeatedly that we in this country possess a great capacity for making a substantial contribution to the preservation of world peace. The idea of a United Nations force conceived originally by the Prime Minister (Mr. Pearson) has proved invaluable, and I am sure every Canadian takes pride in the fact that we have contributed effectively to every one of the United Nations peace keeping efforts. I believe the day will come when we shall be able to make a decisive, important and constructive contribution to a settlement in Viet Nam.
All Canadians are aware of the problems in that tortured land. All of us are conscious of the death and destruction and of the threat to world peace which must exist as long as that war continues. I believe too that there is a sense of national depression because the efforts of so many men of good will from many lands have failed to turn the participants toward the paths of peace. Surely we can agree wholeheartedly with the statement in the speech from the throne that we must pursue every avenue which may lead to a solution. I believe we are doing just that. The Secretary of State for External Affairs (Mr. Martin) has advanced many constructive, well thought out proposals and suggestions. I believe he also made it abundantly clear that we must persist in our present quiet and little publicized efforts to find a basis which will bring the parties together and result eventually in a settlement. This attitude may not be welcomed by those who condemn the actions of the United States or, indeed, by those who ask that we be totally committed to the United States point of view. The role of the peacemaker is never easy. But I am satisfied, and I am sure most hon. members are, that it
May 9, 1967	COMMONS
is an appropriate role tor Canada in the world and, what is more important, it is one that is exactly in tune with our national temperament. I am sure that the policies we are following in this most difficult area meet with the approval of the vast majority of the Canadian people.
The tragedy of Viet Nam and the high emotion it generates reflect what I believe to be a communications crisis. It is one of the supreme ironies of our time that with more ways of communicating than ever before we seem to be talking at each other with little apparent effect. There are many reasons for this, and I think we shall find they exist in our national fife as well.
The speech from the throne makes reference to dozens of proposals requiring complex negotiations between various groups of people. The secret of the success of these programs lies in the effectiveness of the ability to communicate. This is the vital element. Yet so frequently prejudice and stubborn singlemindedness as well as a subjective concern with our own desires are blocking the flow of free and full expression. We seem increasingly to be rejecting concepts which do not fit wholly into our preconceived notions and ideas. If this is so there are many contributing factors, and one of these is broadcasting.
We are shortly to introduce new legislation in this field, and I hope to have an opportunity to comment on it in detail at that time. Today let me simply call the attention of the house to the effect of broadcasting upon what I have described as the public mood. I have been involved in broadcasting all my adult life and have grown up in television. I do not pretend to know all the answers by any means. But I want to say to this house with all the conviction at my command, and with the plea that hon. members accept my sincerity, that what we know about television is dangerously little. I am appalled by the comments made so frequently by so many people, and with such conviction, on the basis of so little hard evidence.
I am held in awe sometimes by the power of this medium, by its ability to reach millions of Canadians at the turn of a switch. I shudder at the casual, offhand manner in which television sometimes deals with issues which can affect the survival of mankind. We hear a great deal about television's "hidden persuaders" and their ability to induce people to buy brand A in preference to brand B, a quality which is frequently condemned. What is too often overlooked is that those same
DEBATES	25
The Address-Mr. F. Cote hidden persuaders can also be used to sell ideas and doctrines which are not necessarily in the public interest. I do not suggest that television is being used subversively. The tragedy is that even if it were we do not possess enough knowledge to know.
I urge the government, when it brings in its legislation, to make provision for comprehensive and objective research which will enable us to know not only what broadcasting is doing to our society but will let us know with some certainty how it can be used more effectively to advance national goals.
Unfortunately there is not time in which to deal with all the matters referred to in the speech from the throne. Perhaps hon. members will say that is fortunate. But there is scarcely an aspect of national life which is not affected by broadcasting. Many of the matters we have before us now which deal with the greater recognition of the human being, the individual, are matters in which broadcasting can be of great assistance.
[DOT] (3:50 p.m.)
We in this house ought to remind ourselves more often than we do that it is in fact the people's house and that everything we do here affects the lives of people. The great grey, anonymous bureaucracy may have no alternative but to deal with statistics and references to units of population, samples, cells, and all the other jargon of the trade, but as members of parliament we are involved and must be concerned with human beings. The machinations of our political parties, the conflicts that occur between parties and between individuals naturally attract a great deal of attention, but they are really the froth of public life. The substance lies in what we do here and, Mr. Speaker, I can only hope that 100 years from now when this house, as it will, continues and those of that day look at the history of this centennial session they will agree that it was one that made the nation proud.


Mr. Florian  Coie@Nicolet-Yamaska: Mr. Speaker, I was extremely happy to learn that the right hon. Prime Minister intended to honour the riding of Nicolet-Yamaska by asking its representative here, in this house, to second the mover of the address in reply to the speech from the throne. I am all the more happy to do so because this is the centennial session of our Canadian parliament and it will probably leave a lasting imprint on my memory.
May 9, 1967

The Address-Mr. F. Cote
May I be allowed first, in the name of the people of the constituency of Nicolet-Yamaska and in my own, to express our deepest sympathy to the family of His Excellency General Vanier and to wish them the necessary strength to overcome that most severe test. I should also like to pay our highest respects to the man who has accepted the heavy responsibilities of governor general of Canada.
To you, Mr. Speaker, I wish to offer my warmest congratulations for the impartial and intelligent way in which you chair the debates in this house.
I should also like to take this opportunity to congratulate those who have accepted such high posts as those of Minister of Justice, of Solicitor General, of President of the Privy Council and Member of the Administration, as well as the two new parliamentary secretaries.
I am quite sure I am expressing the feelings of all the liberal members from Quebec in congratulating most warmly the hon. Jean Marchand (Minister of Manpower and Immigration) our new leader. His appointment pleases the whole population.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Mr.   Coie@Nicolei-Yamaska: My congratulations to the member for Burin-Burgeo (Mr. Jamieson) for the great ease and easy command with which he proposed the address in reply to the speech from the throne. Truly, Mr. Speaker, I wish I had his ease, his fluency, in order to express myself as eloquently as he did. But let us say that Providence did not mete out its blessings equally and that I accept what little talent it has given me. The fact that I have been asked to second the motion for the address in reply to the speech from the throne, in a different language, is evidence that here in Canada, no matter what language we may speak, we can unite our forces to build a greater Canada.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Mr. Cole (Nicolei-Yamaska):: The interest taken by the right hon. Prime Minister (Mr. Pearson) is not limited to asking me to second the motion for the address in reply to the speech from the throne. In fact, since the coming into office of the Liberal party, all my constituents, mainly those in the rural areas, have been pleased with the numerous advantages they have had, as they were perhaps the group most forsaken in the past.

Since my election I have not taken part in the debates very often, and the same is true of the hon. member for Burin-Burgeo. Perhaps I understood the statement of the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Diefenbaker), and I did not speak often, although I could have done so on many occasions, in view of what I know about farming. I do not wish to offend anyone but I will try to dot my i's and set the record straight about various things I did not find quite normal in some speeches made in this house. However, when some hon. members in great flights of oratory criticized the farm policy of the present government, I could have taken the floor quite often on some particular points and proved to those speakers that they did not know anything about rural life in eastern Canada.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


John Cole: Instead, I
tried to understand them, but I realized that what possibly mattered was simply to filibuster. Yet, when they had the opportunity during six years they were in power, from 1957 to 1963, to implement the great appreciation they had for agriculture, particularly for eastern Canada, they did not act. So, to me who sat and listened, it was difficult to take these statements seriously because, after all, for us who live in eastern Canada, perhaps in a rural environment, we have built much and brought forward claims which were not considered at the time by those who now create this opposition.
Listening to the speech from the throne, I noted that many beneficial measures are provided for, particularly as far as the rural people are concerned, the people whom I represent being from Nicolet-Yamaska.
Nicolet-Yamaska is a constituency bordered by the St. Lawrence river to the north, to the east by the constituency of Lotbiniere, so well represented by the present member (Mr. Choquette), and to the south by the constituency of Drummond-Arthabaska, represented by the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources (Mr. Pepin), who so ably supports the efforts of our leader here in the Canadian parliament, and by the constituency of Rich-elieu-Vercheres to the west.
[DOT] (4:00 p.m.)
The people of Nicolet-Yamaska, a riding which is agricultural to the extent of 80 per cent, are deeply attached to the finest French-Canadian traditions. Their generosity prompts them to share in every joy as well as in the greatest hardships. We take pride in many institutions, such as the two seminaries
May 9, 1967	COMMONS
of Nicolet; several religious orders, the Agricultural School, educational institutions which have always shown an untiring devotion to duty. I am not overlooking either the test and experimental plant of the Department of National Defence in Nicolet, and the most recent investment of $106 million, wholly financed by the federal government, for a thermo-nuclear plant in Gentilly.
Mr. Speaker, I had the privilege, a week ago, of being present at the benediction of a cultural centre. The federal government had provided $50,000, that is, 50 per cent of the cost of construction. The centre was built in Saint-Gregoire, in one of the seven municipalities of the new town of Becancour. The heaviest Canadian industries may settle in that town, which came into being only a year and a half ago, for there are plans for building ironworks there.
Nevertheless, as I was saying earlier, the county remains agricultural. In fact, it is a potato growing and hog breeding county, but dairying is the main occupation. Since I am a farmer, I could not help but deal in my speech with matters connected with agriculture. I thought of everything the present government has done in that field. I must say I am proud of it, even if we have not yet achieved the objectives which the farmers are claiming through their professional association.
To illustrate that point, I will refer to 1957. Again, I do not want hon. members, especially those on the other side of the house, to feel that I am trying to criticize systematically, because I do not think it is normal for a citizen to try to build something by destroying everything. I would not want to be like that. But in the light of the facts and of the speeches I heard, I must try to draw a difference with what I have experienced, because you must keep in mind that the figure to which I will refer are figures I have experienced.
In 1957, on my own farm, I was selling milk at $2.90 per hundredweight; with a production of 300,000 pounds of milk, that meant an income of $8,700.
Six years later, in 1963, 1 was selling the milk at $2.76 per hundredweight. That decrease, after six years of administration, brought down my income to $8,280. That was a difference of practically $400, and yet, the cost of living had risen for farmers as well as for other classes of society.
From 1963 to 1966, under an administration which perhaps understood the problems of
DEBATES	27
The Address-Mr. F. Cote eastern Canada and of the Canadian dairy industry, I could sell milk for $4 per hundredweight for a production of 300,000 pounds of milk, which means that I could receive an income of $12,000.
If I refer now to the dairy policy announced by the hon. Minister of Agriculture in March 1967, that price was raised to $4.75. Therefore, anyone who produces 300,000 pounds of milk will now receive $14,250. This is a rather large increase, and I think that it is fair to mention it. No other member knows better than I do the needs of our agriculture, because I personally experienced those problems.
In the light of those figures, perhaps I can appreciate the soundness of the policy or of the measures put forward by the present government.
The situation was the same in hog breeding in 1957, when the then government handed over the administration of the country to another government. We farmers in eastern Canada and throughout the country were guaranteed at least $23 per hundredweight. No one could not make ends meet with $23, but at least we were sure the price would not fall below $23.
In 1958, agricultural specialists went around in my area, as they probably did everywhere else throughout Canada and told us: Farmers, produce milk, produce pork and your prices will be paid, because the government plans some sort of evolution in agriculture. We put our trust in the government, and what were the results? In 1959, more specifically in the second week of January, I sold my pork for $17.80; the following week, for $18.10, and that under a government in which Canada had placed its trust.
It was sad to hear a father tell his sons that they were going through what he had experienced in the years 1929, 1930, 1931 and 1932. Maybe we had to exert quite a bit of pressure, so much so that we who lived in rural areas had the reputation of always complaining. That is why I will be proud in a few moments to come back to a question put by someone opposite in order to clear up a few things.
Ever since I first came to this house and started listening to those who formed the government during the time we called "the dark period", it has been difficult for me to take them seriously. How many other pieces of legislation did we not ask for? For instance, a Canadian board for the dairy industry, a government agency for the distribution of
May 9, 1967

The Address-Mr. F. Cote feed grain in eastern Canada, unemployment insurance for farm workers.
As for pressures, I exerted some myself, since I was an official in my own professional association and I cannot understand how those who, today, understand fully the farmers' problems, seem to be anxious to help them but did not understand them while they had the opportunity, when we voiced our requests; today, we are faced with a kind of understanding which seems to stem from the change of government.
Therefore, it is difficult for us, from the rural areas, to know exactly what is going on. That is why I am proud to be here, to find out what really happened and that is why, Mr. Speaker, I could, on a number of occasions, have risen on specific points as I stated before, but I chose to wait and try to understand, and today the light is bright enough.
I would now like to add a few words, not as a Liberal member or as a representative of a Liberal party, but as a farmer.
I heard a little while ago a member asking the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Greene) whether he knew about a date; he mentioned May 24.
Mr. Speaker, I am asking all the hon. members not to use the agricultural class, the farmers, as a political football. The producers of manufacturing milk will perhaps be coming here, in the national capital, to voice their needs and not do as many may think, that is to criticize the government. On the contrary, farmers are more intelligent than that. They will support this government in its efforts to help them in the face of all other classes of society.
[DOT] (4:10 p.m.)
And I would not want to see somebody rise in some corner of the house and try to prove that the march that the farmers are going to make on Ottawa is a strong criticism of the whole government policy. I was surprised at the comments of those who did not understand us. In fact, it is said that it would not be logical for the government not to grant $5 per hundredweight. But if we farmers had asked for $6, there is no doubt that some hon. members would have risen and said: It takes $6. If we had asked for $7, others would have risen and said: It takes $7. And had we asked for $8, perhaps the hon. member for Lapointe (Mr. Gregoire) would have risen and said: It takes $8. But that is not what we farmers are asking for.
We are only asking to be able to live like the other classes of society. We are, I think
[Mr. C6t6 (Nicolet-Yamaska) J
among those who were elected to administer Canada. We must remember that within that same Canada there is what is called the rural community. And it may be the social class which contributes the most to the country's economic progress.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Mr. Cote (Nicolet-Yamaska):: I would like it to be understood on both sides of the house that if we of the government party, who administer the business of Canada, are responsible for deciding that such or such a thing must be done, then we must also decide where the money will come from. We must also ask ourselves what will be the repercussions of this or that step we will take. It is not for us only a matter of saying: We must do this. No, we must administer and to administer means to anticipate.
When I think that the farm income has increased in the past three years and a half and reading over the speech from the throne, I have no hesitation in visiting every part of our rural areas, because farmers are aware of what the government has done for them.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Florian Côté: I should not want to overlook a certain part in the speech from the throne, the one about our relations with foreign countries. In fact, I am happy to note that in the field of diplomacy, Canada will stress its efforts, particularly through the United Nations, to promote world peace. That long-sought peace, we have experienced it, so to speak, on the opening day of Expo 67 when everybody rejoiced.
At the Place des Nations, after the usual speeches and the official opening by His Excellency the Governor General, as every country taking part in this great world event was named, we could see floating in the blue sky the flag symbolizing its pride. All participating countries were named. The last one was ours, and our flag, the flag of all Canadians was raised to the sound of cheers. Then a complete silence ensued. Perhaps everyone present was meditating on his participation in that world event. And this joy through which we have lived, Mr. Speaker, we owe it to a great Canadian, the hon. Prime Minister of Canada.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Florian Côté: We also owe it to the Liberal members who have fought
May 9, 1967

night and day to obtain this flag, a symbol of our independence and a source of national pride.
Mr. Speaker, for all these reasons and many others, it is an honour for me to support earnestly the address in reply to the speech from the throne.
The Address-Mr. F. Cote

On motion of Mr. Diefenbaker the debate was adjourned.
On motion of Mr. MacEachen the house adjourned at 4.17 p.m.
31

Wednesday, May 10, 1967