1966-04-20

QUESTIONS

[Stage Direction]
(Questions answered orally are indicated by an asterisk.)

Mr. Ormiston: 1.	Have copies of Peter Newman's "Renegade in Power" been purchased by departmental and Crown corporation libraries and, if so, how many?
2.	Have copies of George Grant's "Lament for a Nation" been ordered and/or purchased by departmental and Crown corporations libraries and, if so, how many?
3.	Have copies of Peter Newman's "Renegade in Power" which are government property been placed in External Affairs offices and Trade Commissioner offices abroad and, if so, how many?


Hon. Judy V. LaMarsh (Secretary of State):: I am informed by all departments as follows:
1.	Yes; 16.
2.	Yes; 96.
3.	No. One was presented to the embassy in Washington and placed in the chancery library.


BUTTER PRODUCTION
Mr. Caouelie: 1.	What was the production of butter in Canada during the years 1963, 1964, 1965 and 1966 to date?
2.	Is Canada exporting any butter and, if so (a) where (b) what were the total exports for the years 1963, 1964 and 1965?
3.	What was the percentage of consumption of butter in this country for 1963, 1964 and 1965?
4.	What happened to the unsold production for the years 1963, 1964 and 1965?


Hon. Robert Winters (Minister of Trade and Commerce):: 1. Production of creamery butter in Canada during 1963, 1964, 1965, and 1966, to date, is as follows:
Year	Production '000 lb.
1963	351,919
1964	351,822
1965	336,666
1966	not available
2.	Exports of butter by countries during the calendar years 1963, 1964, and January to October 1965 (latest figures available) are shown in the following table.
3.	Percentage of consumption of creamery butter in Canada for 1963, 1964 and 1965.
	Percentage of Consumption
Year	to Production
	%
1963	99.8
1964	101.51
1965	105.91
Represents some out of storage movement.
4.	Unsold creamery butter in 1963 moved into storages in Canada.


EXPORTS OF BUTTER BY COUNTRIES DURING THE CALENDAR YEARS 1963, 1964 AND JANUARY TO OCTOBER, 1965.
[Stage Direction]
Export Class Number	Description	Country	1963	1964	Jan.-Oct., 1965	Quantity	Value	Quantity	Value	Quantity	ValueCwt.	$'000	Cwt.	$'000	Cwt.	$'00051-29	Butter	United Kingdom	55,987	1,720	364,614	12,551	27,813	989Norway	nil	nil	nil	nil	5	*British Guiana	"	"	88	7	Honduras	"	««	185	12	<<St. Pierre and Miquelon.	98	6	680	38	1,172	68United States	2	*	12	*	15	1Totals	56,087	1,726	365,579	12,608	29,005	1,058Amount too small to be expressed (less than $500.00).	
Questions
[Stage Direction]
April 20, 1966

Mr. Crouse: 1.	What was the total amount of money expended by the Department of Fisheries during 1965 in Newfoundland for the provision of fresh fish collection centres and community stages for salt fish?
2.	What was the total amount expended for similar installations in (a) Quebec (b) New Brunswick (c) Nova Scotia?
3.	What was the total amount spent by the federal government in Newfoundland during 1965 on buildings, marine works, wharves, breakwaters, practical research and demonstration, to accelerate fisheries development activity?
4.	What was the total amount expended for similar fisheries development in (a) Quebec (b) New Brunswick (c) Nova Scotia?


Hon. H. J. Robichaud (Minister of Fisheries):: 1. 1964-65, $489,374.14; 1965-66, $717,651.91. These amounts include works, where necessary.
2.	(a) Nil. (b) Nil. (c) Nil.
3.	Fisheries expenditure included in 1 above.
4.	Re fisheries, answered by No. 1.


FISHERIES STATISTICS
Mr. Tucker: 1.	How many fishing communities are there in
(a)	Newfoundland-Labrador (b) Nova Scotia (c) New Brunswick (d) Quebec (e) Prince Edward Island?
2.	How many fishermen are there in (a) Newfoundland-Labrador (b) Nova Scotia (c) New Brunswick (d) Quebec (e) Prince Edward Island?
3.	What is the number of fishing boats not decked in operation in (a) Newfoundland-Labrador (b) Nova Scotia (c) New Brunswick (d) Quebec (e) Prince Edward Island, by inshore fishermen?
4.	What is the number of decked fishing boats up to 75 feet in length in operation in (a) Newfoundland-Labrador (b) Nova Scotia (c) New Brunswick
(d)	Quebec (e) Prince Edward Island?
5.	What is the number of fishermen in operation and using boats not decked in (a) Newfoundland-Labrador (b) Nova Scotia (c) New Brunswick (d) Quebec (e) Prince Edward Island?
6.	What is the number of fishermen using decked boats up to 75 feet in length in (a) Newfoundland-Labrador (b) Nova Scotia (c) New Brunswick (d) Quebec (e) Prince Edward Island?
7.	What the average income of fishermen using boats not decked in (a) Newfoundland-Labrador
(b)	Nova Scotia (c) New Brunswick (d) Quebec
(e)	Prince Edward Island?
8.	What is the average income of fishermen using decked boats up to 75 feet in length in (a) Newfoundland-Labrador (b) Nova Scotia (c) New Brunswick (d) Quebec (e) Prince Edward Island?


Hédard-J. Robichaud: 1. Not available.
2.	(a) 22,615 in 1964; (b) 13,333 in 1964;
(c)	5,790 in 1964; (d) 3,512 in 1964; (e) 3,329 in 1964.
3.	Not available.
4.	Not available.
5.	Not available.
6.	Not available.
7.	Not available.
8.	Not available.


C.B.C. PUBLIC RELATIONS STAFF
Mr. Keays: Are there any public relations officials in or connected with the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation and, if so, how many and what are the names and addresses of each?


Julia Verlyn (Judy) LaMarsh: I am informed by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation that its public relations is largely carried out by the management group as a basic responsibility. The corporation employs two full time public relations people who assist in this work: Mr. Jack Lusher, 1500 Bronson Avenue, Ottawa, and M. Paul Dumont-Frenette, room 1425, Place Ville-Marie, Montreal.


REPRESENTATIONS RESPECTING MARITIME PROGRAM
Mr. Howard: 1.	Has the government received any briefs or presentations since January 1, 1964, relating to a Maritime Program for Canada from (a) the National Metal Trades Federation C.N.T.U. (b) the Marine Workers Federation C.L.C. (c) the Shipyard General Workers Federation of B.C., C.L.C.?
2.	If so, what was the date upon which each such brief or presentation was received and the date and nature of any response?


Julia Verlyn (Judy) LaMarsh: I am informed by the Department of Transport as follows:
1.	Yes.
2.	On March 25, 1964, representatives of the three unions presented to a number of cabinet ministers a brief entitled "Build a Merchant Marine Now!-A Maritime Program for Canada". Mr. J. K. Bell, secretary treasurer of the Marine Workers Federation (C.L.C.) was informed that the brief would be considered by the interdepartmental committee appointed to make representations with respect to government policy on shipbuilding. The government announced on January 17, 1966, a revised program of assistance to the shipbuilding industry.
April 20, 1966

Questions


IMMIGRATION, 1964 AND 1965
Mr. Caouelle: 1.	How many immigrants were admitted to Canada in 1964 and 1965?
2.	What were the countries of origin of these immigrants in 1964 and 1965?
3.	What criteria are applied to refuse an immigrant admission to Canada?
4.	What requirements of admission must be set by a person who wishes to immigrate to Canada?


Mr. J. C. Munro (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Citizenship and Immigration):: 1.	In 1964 there were 112,606 immigrants admitted to Canada. In 1965 the number was 146,758.
2.	See the following list.
3.	Prospective immigrants are refused admission to Canada if they come within any of the prohibited classes of section 5 of the Immigration Act or if they do not come within any of the classes of section 31 of the Immigration Regulations.
4.	To be admissible to Canada as an immigrant, a person must comply with the provisions of section 31 of the Immigration Regulations and not fall within one of the prohibited classes listed in section 5 of the Immigration Act.
Country of last permanent residence of immigrants admitted in 1964 and 1965
Country of Last Permanent
Residence	1964	1965Algeria	3	10Arabia	7	7Argentina	461	489Australia	1,855	2,150Austria	1,099	1,472Barbados	422	560Belgium	989	977Bermuda	82	120Brazil	428	587Britain	29,279	39,857England	20,481	28,820Northern Ireland	1,847	1,934Scotland	6,698	8,363Wales	236	682Lesser British Isles	17	58British Guiana	614	609Bulgaria	6	13Burma	3	39Ceylon	80	126Chile	61	73China	184	197Colombia	74	47Cyprus	101	239Czechoslovakia	91	68Denmark	717	859Egypt	1,855	1,378Finland	353	504Fiji Islands	209	304France	4,542	5,225Germany	5,992	8,927Greece	4,391	5,642Hong Kong	2,490	4,155Hungary	424	453Iceland	20	7India	1,154	2,241Indonesia	7	7Iran	31	136Iraq	19	73Ireland (Republic)	680	861Israel	871	822Italy	19,297	26,398Jamaica	912	1,214Japan	138	209Jordan	49	69Kenya	83	112Kuwait	10	7Latvia	2	4Lebanon	347	602Lithuania	0	2Luxembourg	36	22Malaysia	68	96Malta	1,162	1,055Mexico	136	147Morocco	1,092	834Netherlands	2,029	2,619New Zealand	448	561Norway	259	324Pakistan	282	423Peru	48	53Philippines	237	1,502Poland	1,944	1,975Portugal	5,309	5,734Rhodesia	169	89Roumania	57	55St. Pierre and Miquelon	16	19South Africa-Republic	417	545Spain	674	837Sweden	325	361Switzerland	1,446	2,169
April 20, 1966
Questions
Country of Last Permanent
Residence	1964	1965Syria	37	71Tanzania	10	42Trinidad	467	775Tobago	4	5Tunisia	38	12Turkey	304	469Uganda	13	18Uruguay	84	89U.S.A.	12,565	15,143U.S.S.R.	77	157Venezuela	336	310Yugoslavia	1,187	1,230Zambia	86	37Africa, n.e.s. (1)	108	119Asia, n.e.s. (1)	107	194British West Indies n.e.s.	(1) 267	372Central America n.e.s. (1)	34	39Europe n.e.s. (1)	6	9North America n.e.s. (1)	2	2Oceania n.e.s. (1)	0	5S. America n.e.s. (1)	151	214West Indies n.e.s. (1)	127	169Other countries n.e.s. (1)	10	6Grand Total	112,606	146,758
(1) n.e.s. means "Not Elsewhere Specified". [English]


REAL ROUSSEAU
Mr. McCutcheon: Is one Real Rousseau, who according to the Canadian Press on June 23, 1965, was identified in the preliminary hearing of Hon. Yvon Dupuis, in the pay of the federal government and/or has he been at any time during the last two years and, if so (a) where is or was he employed and (b) what are or were his duties?


Julia Verlyn (Judy) LaMarsh: I am informed by all departments as follows: No.


SALARIES OF POSTMASTERS
Mr. Caouetie: 1.	What are the standards by which the salaries of postmaster and assistant postmaster are established?
2.	Do these standards apply to the whole of Canada?
3.	Does the Minimum Wage Act apply to the Post Office Department?

4.	If not, what category of employees is not covered by this act and why?


Hon. Jean-Pierre Cote (Postmaster General):: 1.	The classification of Post Offices is based on the volume of postal business transacted. The salaries of the Postmasters and Assistants are based on the classification thus determined.
2.	Yes.
3.	The Minimum Wage Acts of Provincial Governments do not apply to Post Office Department employees. The Government, as a matter of policy, has established that minimum wage standards within the Canada Labour (Standards) Code would be extended to Federal Government employees.
The Civil Service Regulations have been amended with respect to annual vacation, general holidays and a minimum wage of $1.25 per hour to conform with the conditions outlined in the Code and these new regulations apply to Post Office Department employees who are subject to the terms of the Civil Service Act. They do not apply to small Revenue Postmasters and Sub Postmasters.
4.	Revenue Postmasters are paid on the basis of postal work performed rather than on time required to be available to provide service. They are available to provide service for 40 hours per week but they may engage in other gainful employment when not required for postal work. Many of them operate stores in conjunction with the Post Office and where the Post Office is located in a home, there is little interference with the performance of normal household activities. On the basis of the hours required to perform postal work, they are paid in excess of the minimum wage of $1.25 per hour. Sub-Post Offices are usually operated in conjunction with another business and, like Revenue Offices, Postmasters are not required to devote full-time to postal work. They are paid a basic amount plus commissions on the sale of postal values. The status of these two groups in so far as the application of the Labour Code is concerned is still under review.


CORRELATION OF FAIRS, ETC. AND EXPO '67
Mr. Thompson: What plans are being made to relate major Canadian events, such as the Calgary Stampede, the Canadian National exhibition, the Pacific National exhibition, and other fairs and festivals to Expo '67 next year?
April 20, 1966


Robert Henry Winters: A very active program is in progress to promote Expo '67 at major Canadian fairs and exhibitions. It is the intention to have prominent displays at the Calgary Stampede, the Pacific National exhibition and the Canadian National exhibition. Expo '67 will be participating jointly with the Ontario government at the Canadian National exhibition, and at other fairs and exhibitions across Canada. All Expo '67 exhibits will include reference to its role in the Canadian centennial.
In addition, Expo '67 and the centennial commission are co-operating in several major national projects: (a) one which will result in national and international performing groups playing in several major centres of Canada as well as at Expo '67; (b) a series of folk art festivals; (c) the youth travel program under which hundreds of Canadian students will be assisted in travelling to various parts of Canada, some of whom may visit at Expo '67 when going through Montreal; (d) the canoe pageant; (e) a centennial guide book and the Canadian armed forces tattoo.
These and other events are described in the third annual report of the centennial commission for the fiscal year 1964-65.


GRANT REQUEST BY MEDICAL RESEARCH COUNCIL, 1965-66
Mr. Brand: 1.	What amount was requested by the medical research council for grants in aid of research for the fiscal year 1965-66?
2.	Of said amount, how much was granted by the government?


Hon. C. M. Drury (Minisier of Industry):: 1.	The proposed programs for departments and agencies of the government are discussed during the course of the year with the staff of the Treasury Board and, in the light of total moneys available, agreement is reached by the government on the allocation of these total moneys as between the various departments and agencies. It is not the practice to disclose either the tenor or content of such discussions.
Estimates for the medical research council have been increasing substantially year by year as the appropriations below show:
1963-	64-$ 5,100,000.
1964-	65-$ 6,935,000.
1965-	66-$ 9,250,000 in the main estimate.
$ 3,000,000 in the supplementary estimate.

Questions
2.	See No. 1 above.


GRANT REQUEST BY MEDICAL RESEARCH COUNCIL, 1966-67
Mr. Brand: 1.	What is the total amount of the request by the medical research council for recommended grants for the year 1966-1967?
2.	Has the government made any decision as to how much will be made available?
3.	Will the government give consideration to the making of supplementary appropriations so that the medical research council budget will be able to meet the necessary and scientifically acceptable plans which the council has placed before the government?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: 1.	The proposed programs for departments and agencies of the government are discussed during the course of the year with the staff of the Treasury Board and, in the light of total moneys available, agreement is reached by the government on the allocation of these total moneys as between the various departments and agencies. It is not the practice to disclose either the tenor or content of such discussions.
2	and 3. The main estimate for 1966-67 is $12,350,000.


ALANIS OBOMSAWIN
Mr. Howard: 1.	Is one Alanis Obomsawin either by that name or the names of Helen Riley, Helen Robert (s) or Helen Robert Riley, a member of any Indian band in Canada and, if so, what is the name of that band, the date of birth of the said person, and the process by which her name appeared on the said band list?
2.	If the answer to part 1 is no, does the government or any agency or department thereof have any knowledge of the origin of the said person and, if so, what is (a) her original name (b) her current name or names (c) her place and date of birth (d) her date of entry to Canada if she were born in or came from another country, and (e) her ethnic origin from the point of view as to whether or not she is of Indian descent?


Julia Verlyn (Judy) LaMarsh: I am informed by the departments of Northern Affairs and National Resources and Citizenship and Immigration as follows: 1. No.
2.	The Indian affairs branch has no official information about the personal history of this person.
The Department of Citizenship and Immigration has no file or record of entry of any person named Alanis Obomsawin. Because the other names listed are fairly common

April 20, 1966
Questions
ones, it would be impossible to identify the record of any one particular person, so named, without the benefit of other personal data such as date and place of birth or parents' names.


EXEMPTION APPLICATIONS UNDER LABOUR CODE
Mr. Loney: 1.	How many companies and firms have applied for exemptions from the sections of the Canada labour code which concern minimum wages and hours of work?
2.	How many exemptions have been granted?
3.	What is the total of employees who are exempted from the provisions of the act as a result of exemptions granted up to March 31, 1966?


Mr. B. S. Mackasey (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Labour):: 1. Five hundred and forty submissions covering 4,239 establishments have been made under section 51 of the Canada Labour (Standards) Code for deferment or suspension of the operation of part I of the code.
Two hundred and forty-two submissions covering 279 establishments have been made under section 52 of the Canada Labour (Standards) Code for deferment of the operation of section 11 of the code.
2.	Eight orders have been made under section 51 of the Canada Labour (Standards) Code deferring the operation of part I of the code.
Twenty-nine orders have been made under section 52 of the Canada Labour (Standards) Code deferring the operation of section 11 of the code.
3.	Information is not available. Most submissions did not contain information on the number of employees affected.


C.N.R. PURCHASE OF CLEANING COMPOUND
Mr. Monieiih: 1.	What companies tendered for sale of 123,500 lbs. of "extra heavy duty cleaning compounds", (specification No. 475-13A, of December, 1953) called for by the Canadian National Railways, such tenders having closed August 17, 1965?
2.	Who was the successful tenderer?
3.	What was the amount of the successful tender?


Mr. J. A. Byrne (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Transport):: The management of Canadian National Railways advise as follows:-
A contract was awarded to Pennsalt Chemicals of Canada Limited, of Oakville, which
[Miss LaMarsh.l
had submitted the low tender following an invitation to bid which had been sent to 40 firms. It is not the practice of the company to disclose the names of companies submitting tenders nor to divulge prices which it pays for materials which are purchased by tenders, as to do so could be prejudicial to the competitive position of the supplier and in future transactions would restrict the Canadian National's ability to buy on the most advantageous terms to the railway.


REGISTRATION OF DRUG MANUFACTURERS
Mr. Harley: 1.	Is the government giving consideration to registering drug manufacturers, as recommended by the special committee on food and drugs?
2.	If so, what action has the government taken in this regard?


Hon. A. J. MacEachen (Minister of National Health and Welfare):: 1. Yes.
2.	Based on the recommendations of the special committee on food and drugs, it is the government's intention to enact regulations requiring an annual report or notification by drug manufacturers of all their products for sale in Canada including imported drugs. Drug manufacturers have been advised of this.


COST OF PRINTING BY GOVERNMENT BUREAU
Mr. Ricard: 1.	What is the total cost of printing done by the Canadian Government Printing Bureau during each of the years 1961, 1962, 1963 and 1964?
2.	What is the total cost of printing done outside the printing bureau for each of the years 1961, 1962, 1963 and 1964?
3.	What is the total cost of all other government printing jobs done by the printing bureau during each of the years 1961, 1962, 1963 and 1964?
4.	What is the total cost of all other government printing jobs done outside the printing bureau during each of the years 1961, 1962, 1963 and 1964?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: 1.	Information provided is based on fiscal year ended 31 March-calendar year information not currently available. 1961-62, $10,202,504; 1962-63, $9,709,872; 1963-64, $10,122,903; 1964-65, $11,177,181.
2.	According to D.B.S. Publication (August 1965) "Commercial Printing Industries", Cat. No. 36-209, Table 8, the value of Printing, Publishing and Allied Industries: 1961, $887,727,860; 1962, $925,442,673; 1963, not yet available; 1964, not yet available.
3.	Nil-Included in (1) above.
April 20, 1966

4.	No record is maintained by Canadian Government Printing Bureau of total printing done on behalf of other departments, agencies and Crown Corporations. Printing let to outside printers by Department of Public Printing and Stationery on behalf of these Departments, agencies and Crown Corporations was: 1960-61, $5,887,672; 1961-62, $6,493,153; 196263, $6,771,874; 1963-64, $6,423,875.


AMENDMENT OF SECTION 21 OF INCOME TAX ACT
Mr. Bell (Carlelon): 1.	Have representations been made by any organization or association to the Minister of Finance and/or the Minister of National Revenue, since January 1, 1965, seeking amendment to the provisions of section 21 of the Income Tax Act respecting the joint assessment of income of a husband or wife when one spouse is employed in the business of the other?
2.	If so, by whom, and what was the nature of the representations in each case?
3.	What consideration has been given by the government to these representations?


Hon. Mitchell Sharp (Minister of Finance):: 1.	Yes.
2.	The Canadian Federation of University Women recommended that salary paid to a wife employed by her husband (or a partnership in which he is a member) be treated as separate income in the wife's hands when the services are actually performed and the compensation is not greater than would be paid to another person for the same services.
The Canadian Federation of Business and Professional Women's Clubs urged that subsections (2) and (3) of section 21 of the Income Tax Act be repealed and that the act be amended to provide that where the service is actually performed and the compensation is not greater than would be paid to another person for the same service the remuneration received by the employee spouse shall be deductible from the taxable income of the employer spouse, and shall be treated as separate income in the hands of the employee spouse.
The Canadian Chamber of Commerce recommended that remuneration received by an employed spouse be treated as separate to the extent that services are actually performed and the compensation is not greater than would be paid to an unrelated person for the same service.
3.	These submissions were carefully considered but it was decided that decisions involving important changes of this nature
Questions
should be deferred until the government has the benefit of the recommendations of the royal commission on taxation.


DIRECTOR OF POLICY AND PLANNING, ARDA
Mr. Bell (Carleton): 1.	Has a director of policy and planning in the agricultural rehabilitation and development branch of the Department of Forestry been appointed recently?
2.	If so, who, and by whom was the appointment made?
3.	If by the Civil Service Commission (a) how many applicants were there in the competition (b) who were the members of the rating board (c) what positions do such members of the rating board hold?
4.	What is the salary level of the position?
5.	What position did the successful applicant hold immediately prior to this appointment?
6.	Did the successful applicant previously hold positions in the civil or public service?
7.	If so (a) what positions (b) during what periods of time (c) at what salary levels?
8.	While employed previously in the civil or public service, did the successful applicant or anyone on his behalf apply for reclassification of his position.
9.	If so (a) when (b) with what result (c) what reasons were given for the decision in this respect?


Julia Verlyn (Judy) LaMarsh: I have been given the following information by the Civil Service Commission: 1. Yes, on April 12, 1966.
2.	Mr. G. J. Lemieux, Ph.D.-by the Civil Service Commission.
3.	(a) 26. (b) and (c) Mr. F. J. Doucet, director, program division, Atlantic Development Board. Mr. A. T. Davidson, assistant deputy minister, ARDA, Department of Forestry. Mr. B. J. E. Lavigne, administrator, feed grain assistance program, Department of Forestry-(adviser to Mr. Davidson). Mr. J. E. Cote, Civil Service Commission officer, Civil Service Commission.
4.	$15,370-$19,080.
5.	Director, bio-physical research, Eastern Quebec Planning Bureau, Mont-Joli, P.Q.
6.	Yes.
7.	(a) (b) and (c) Seasonal Employment: Summers of 1952, 1953 and 1954 as survey assistant and forest engineer 1.
Salary History
Continuing employment: 1.1.55, Forest engineer 1, $3360; 1.7.55, Forest engineer 1, $3540, semi-annual increment; 1.4.56, Forestry officer 1,	$3900, economic revision and
change in class title; 1.7.56, Forestry officer 1, $4050, semi-annual increment; 30.9.56,

April 20, 1966
Questions
granted educational leave with half pay; 1.4.59, Forestry officer 2, $5580, reclassification; 1.1.60, Forestry officer 2, $5880, annual increment; 1.6.60, Forestry officer 2, $6240, economic revision; 1.11.60, Research officer 2(F), $6240, change in class title; 1.1.61, Research officer 2(F), $6540, annual increment; 1.1.62, Research officer 2(F), $6840, annual increment; 1.1.63, Research officer 2(F), $7140, annual increment; 13.2.64, Research officer 2 (F), $7140, salary on termination.
8 and 9. In April, 1959, the Department of Northern Affairs and National Resources requested the reclassification of Dr. Lemieux's position, among others, from forestry officer 1 to forestry officer 2. The reclassification was approved as it was in keeping with the duties performed.
No further request for his reclassification was received after that date. However, the Civil Service Commission understands that a further recommendation for Dr. Lemieux was under consideration in the Department of Forestry at the time of his resignation, effective February 13, 1964. This recommendation was related to the fulfillment of the academic requirements for the obtention of a Ph.D. degree in ecology. Dr. Lemieux resigned from the public service before completing these requirements, but he has since satisfied them and was awarded his Ph.D. by the University of Michigan in May 1964.


FEDERAL GRANTS, PORT ELGIN, ONT.
Mr. Loney: What amount in grants, in lieu of taxes, on federal property was paid to the municipality of Port Elgin, Ontario, for the year 1965?


Mitchell William Sharp: 


$560. COST OF C.B.C. MUNSINGER COVERAGE
Mr. Thompson: 1.	What was the cost to the C.B.C. for its coverage of Gerda Munsinger in Germany?
2.	How much was paid for the interview with Mrs. Munsinger?
3.	How much was spent on transportation and expenses for interviewer or interviewers?
4.	What is the cost of the technical services, camera crews, etc.?
5.	How much else was spent on the general C.B.C. news coverage of the Munsinger case in Germany?
6.	How much television time to date has the C.B.C. devoted to the Munsinger affair (a) in direct newscasts (b) in special public affairs programming?


Julia Verlyn (Judy) LaMarsh: I am informed by the C.B.C. as follows:
1.	Total cost was $9,050.
2.	$5,000 was paid to Mrs. Munsinger's agent and $3,000 was paid to the Toronto Daily Star. The C.B.C. recovered $2,000 through sale of the program material to the N.B.C. network in the United States.
3	and 4. The combined cost for transportation, staff expenses, etc., for coverage in Germany was $3,050 for providing coverage on four networks, English and French, radio and television.
5.	Nil.
6.	(a) 1 hour and 28 minutes in regular newscasts, plus 19 minutes in two special newscasts, (b) None in special public affairs programming, although the subject was dealt with in regular public affairs programs.


C.B.C. TELEVISION COVERAGE OF QUEEN'S VISIT TO WEST INDIES
Mr. Thompson: 1.	How much television time did the C.B.C. devote to the visit of Queen Elizabeth II to the West Indies (a) in direct newscasts (b) in special public affairs programming?
2.	How much was spent for the required technical services, camera crews, etc.?


Julia Verlyn (Judy) LaMarsh: I am informed by the C.B.C. as follows: 1. (a) Two minutes and 55 seconds in regular newscasts, (b) Nil.
2.	Nil. News film was obtained through a British TV news agency.


PUBLIC WORKS CONSTRUCTION, SOUTHWESTERN ONTARIO
Mr. Nesbitt: 1.	Is the Department of Public Works intending to commence the construction of any buildings in southwestern Ontario within the next six months?
2.	If so, what are the details of the projects?


Hon. G. J. Mcllrailh (Minister of Public Works):: 1. No.
2. Not applicable.


C.B.C. INTERVIEWS WITH MR. MUNSINGER
Mr. Thompson: What did the interview or interviews with Mr. Munsinger, including transportation, camera crews, technical services, etc. cost the C.B.C.?


Julia Verlyn (Judy) LaMarsh: I am informed by the C.B.C. that the interview with Mr. Munsinger, shown on a special
April 20, 1966

Questions
T.V. news program and on "This Hour Has 3- Was more than one tender accepted from the Seven Days", cost $4,000 including costs of successful bidder?
transportation, interview, studio rental, etc 4- Were two sets of Prices accepted from one
company and, if so, for what reason?


TENDERS FOR PEAS, INDIAN AID PROGRAM
Mr. Enns: 1.	On what date did the Canadian Commercial Corporation call tenders for peas in the Indian aid program and on what date were the tenders closed?
2.	What was the amount and price of the tenders of (a) the Ottawa Valley Grain Company of Renfrew (b) Northern Sales (1963) Limited and (c) the B.C. Pea Growers Limited?
F.A.S. Saint John-Grade 2cw $136.20 "	3cw	$134.35Extra	"	4cw	$132.50"	4cw	$130.65
Lot 2-750 long tons combination of grades:
F.A.S. Saint John-Grade 2cw $143.20 "	3cw	$141.35Extra	"	4cw	$139.50"	4cw	$137.65


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: 1.	Invitations to tender were called by telegram on January 10, 1966 and were closed on January 14, 1966.
2. The following offers were received: (a) Ottawa Valley Grain Co. Lot 1-1250 long
tons combination per long ton	of grades: Revised $135.20 per	long tonii * it	$133.35	it	" "ii ii it	$131.50	"	it iiii ii if	$129.65	ii	a aper long ton	Revised $140.05	per	long tonii if ii	$138.20	it	a iiit it if	$136.35	"	ii ita a a	$134.50	a	ii it
Lot 3-50 long tons grade 3cw: F.A.S. Saint John-$192.60.
(b)	Northern Sales (1963) Limited. Lot 1- 750 long tons grade extra 4cw: F.A.S. Saint John-$133.95 per long ton. Lot 2-100 long tons grade 4cw: F.A.S. Saint John-$132.16 per long ton. Lot 3-75 long tons grade 4cw or better: F.A.S. Saint John-$134.40 per long ton (Lot 3 not acceptable as offer was based on supply of green peas rather than yellow which was specified in the invitation to tender).
(c)	B.C. Pea Growers Limited. Lot 1-1200 long tons grade 3cw: F.A.S. Montreal $184.80 per long ton; or F.A.S. Saint John or Halifax $189.95 per long ton; or F.A.S. Vancouver or New Westminster $192.64 per long ton. Lot 2- 450 long tons grade 3cw: F.A.S. Montreal $145.60 per long ton; or F.A.S. Saint John or Halifax $150.75 per long ton; or F.A.S. Vancouver or New Westminster $153.44 per long ton.
3.	Two lots of 1250 long tons and 750 long tons were accepted from Ottawa Valley Grain Co.
Two lots of 750 long tons and 100 long tons were accepted from Northern Sales (1963) Limited.
4.	Yes. More than one set of prices were accepted from each of the two firms. The prices were dependant upon the geographic origin of the peas as opposed to the location of the processing plants and inland transportation to F.A.S. point, storage, etc. The price differential is also due to the different lot quantities of peas available at various locations as well as the types of grades offered.
Ottawa Valley Grain Products Ltd. revised its prices downward to reflect savings in storage insurance and interest when specific shipping dates were known.


LANGUAGES SPOKEN BY IMMIGRANTS
Mr. Laprise: 1.	From 1940 to 1960, year by year, how many immigrants on their arrival in Canada were (a) proficient in French (b) proficient in English (c) proficient in French and English (d) conversant with neither language?
2.	During these same years, year by year, how many of these immigrants settled in Quebec and of this number how many spoke (a) French (b) English (c) French and English (d) neither English nor French?
3.	Does the government have an immigration policy which favours alike the two ethnic groups of Canada and, if so, does the same policy apply to each of the provinces of Canada?

April 20, 1966
Questions
4.	In what way does the immigration policy of Canada take into account the French ethnic group in Quebec?


John Carr Munro: 1. Statistics on the languages spoken by immigrants on their arrival in Canada are not available prior to 1962.
2.	As explained in the answer to part 1, the precise information requested is not available. However, shown below are figures on the total immigration to Canada from 1940 to 1960 and the numbers of immigrants who were destined to Quebec Province.
	Total Immigrants	Immigrants destined
Year	Canada	to Quebec1940	11,324	2,5561941	9,329	1,9311942	7,576	1,3391943	8,504	1,3691944	12,801	2,0661945	22,722	3,4281946	71,719	9,7121947	64,127	8,2721948	125,414	24,6871949	95,217	18,0051950	73,912	13,5751951	194,391	46,0331952	164,498	35,3181953	168,868	34,2941954	154,227	28,4191955	109,946	22,1171956	164,857	31,3961957	282,164	55,0731958	124,851	28,4431959	106,928	24,8161960	104,111	23,7743. There	is no difference in	Canada's immigration	policy with respect	to the twomajor ethnic groups of Canada. The same	policy applies to all provinces	of Canada.4. Canada's immigrant selection policy is	not based in any way upon the	ethnic originof immigrants. The policy is to select those	immigrants	who are likely to	become selfsupporting	members of the Canadian com-	munity regardless of their ethnic origin.	
[English1


CANADA-U.K. TAX AGREEMENT
Mr. Fairwealher: 1. Is the recently abrogated agreement between Canada and the United Kingdom about double taxation being renegotiated?

2.	If so, when is the agreement expected to be ratified?
3.	Will the new agreement be retroactive to the date the former agreement lapsed?
4.	Does the government contemplate taxing people living in Canada permanently but receiving income from sources in the United Kingdom?


Mitchell William Sharp: 1. The terminated 1946 Canada-United Kingdom income tax agreement has been renegotiated in part and replaced by a limited agreement, signed on December 6, 1965, that deals with four classes of income.
Both governments have expressed the hope that the limited agreement will soon be extended to include the subjects usually covered in a comprehensive agreement, and arrangements are now being made for holding meetings with a view to negotiating such an agreement.
2.	The limited agreement will not be ratified by an exchange of instruments of ratification but will come into force after each contracting government has been notified by the other that all the things that have to be done to give the agreement the force of law in Canada and the United Kingdom respectively have been done. The governing date is expected to be the date on which the Canadian bill to implement the agreement is given royal assent.
It cannot now be determined when any comprehensive agreement that may be negotiated will come into force.
3.	Yes, with respect to the subjects covered in the limited agreement. Not known, with respect to the subjects to be covered in any comprehensive agreement that may be negotiated.
4.	Yes. The Income Tax Act provides that residents of Canada are taxable on income from all sources; it also provides that tax credits shall be allowed in respect of taxes paid to foreign governments on income from foreign sources.
The limited agreement provides that certain pensions from the British government received by Canadian residents shall be exempt from Canadian tax, unless it is more favourable to the pensioner to be taxed by Canada instead of Britain.
April 20, 1966


FRENCH TELEVISION SERVICE, PONTIAC COUNTY, QUE.
Mr. Lefebvre: 1.	Was a study made by the C.B.C. into the possibility of providing the population of the northern area of Pontiac with French television network service?
2.	If so, what was the result of such study?
3.	If no study was made, does the government intend to make one?


Julia Verlyn (Judy) LaMarsh: I am informed by the C.B.C. as follows:
1.	Yes.
2.	A preliminary study indicated that the cost per capita would be much higher than for other unserved areas, due to the very small, scattered population.
3.	N/A.
tEnglish]


GOVERNMENT OF CANADA PERPETUAL BONDS
Mr. Bell (Carleton): 1.	When were the 3 per cent government of Canada perpetuals issued?
2.	At what price and yield?
3.	What amount of these bonds is now outstanding?
4.	At what time and under what terms has the government an option to redeem these bonds?
5.	Have any representations been made to the government by or on behalf of the holders of these bonds?
6.	If so, what is the nature of such representations?
7.	What decisions have been taken by the government in respect of these representations?


Mitchell William Sharp: 1. September 15, 1936.
2.	96.50 to yield 3.11 per cent.
3.	$55,000,000.
4.	The bonds are subject to redemption by call at the option of the government, as a whole or in part, at 100 and interest on 60 days' notice on September 15, 1966, or at any time thereafter.
5.	Yes.
6.	Representations from perpetual bondholders generally request that these bonds be called on September 15, 1966.
7.	Under the terms and conditions of the 3 per cent perpetual bond issue, the government of Canada is required to give notice of intention to redeem the bonds by advertisements in the Canada Gazette and in daily newspapers, once in each fortnight for four
Questions
consecutive fortnights with the first publication to be not less than 60 days prior to redemption date. Holders of perpetual bonds will be advised in this way if and when the government decides to exercise its option to call the bonds on September 15, 1966 or at any time thereafter.


FEDERAL GRANT, WIARTON, ONT.
Mr. Loney: What amount of grant in lieu of taxes on federal property was paid to the municipality of Wiarton, Ontario, for the year 1965?


Mitchell William Sharp: 


$948. STUDEBAKER CORPORATION
Mr. Jorgenson: 1.	Was there any agreement of any kind between the federal government and Studebaker Corporation at the time the Studebaker plant was established in Canada?
2.	Were there any inducements or concessions to Studebaker Corporation for locating in Canada?
3.	Who was responsible for the decision to close down the plant?
4.	What was the reason for closing the plant?
5.	Are there any plans for future use of the plant?
6.	Does the government know whether existing guarantees on all models of Studebaker cars manufactured in Canada will be honoured by the Studebaker Corporation, and will the government take steps to ensure that these guarantees are honoured?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: 1. Crown Assets Disposal Corporation reports that: Yes, the plant was sold to the Studebaker Corporation of Canada Limited by His Majesty the King in right of Canada by an agreement of sale dated the 28th day of February 1946.
2.	No.
3.	The decision to close the Studebaker plant at Hamilton was made by the board of directors of the Studebaker Corporation.
4.	The reason given for closing the plant was that steadily declining sales had made it impossible to stem recent automotive losses.
5.	I am informed that the company is considering a number of offers for possible use of the plant.
6.	The Studebaker Corporation has indicated that it will continue parts production to meet all obligations under the guarantees of warranty on cars sold by the company which were produced in Canada.

April 20, 1966
Questions


MAIL DELIVERY CONTRACT, SEPT-lLES, QUE.
Mr. Allard: 1.	Did the federal government recently grant $60,000 to Clarke Steamship Lines for mail distribution in the Sept-iles area?
2.	What firm previously had that mail delivery contract?
3.	Were there any tenders before the contract was given to Clarke Steamship Lines, and (a) if so, who were the tenderers (b) if not, why were tenders not called for regarding this contract?
4.	Did the government find fault with Captain Jourdain of Cape Diamant, who formerly held that mail delivery contract?


Hon. Jean-Pierre Cole (Postmaster General):: 1. A contract was entered into with La Compagnie de Transport du Bas St-Lau-rent Ltee, a subsidiary of Clarke Steamship Company Limited, on 30th September 1965, for an amount of $67,000.00 per season.
2.	During 1965 the Post Office Department had agreements with two steamship operators to convey mails between Sept-iles and Blanc Sablon. One trip each week was performed by La Compagnie de Transport du Bas St-Laurent Ltee and the other trip was due to be performed by Captain Jourdain.
3.	No. In accordance with Section 29 of the Post Office Act, the Postmaster General may, without public advertisement enter into a contract for conveying mail with any person operating a railway, air, steamboat or bus service, (a) Not applicable, (b) The company to which the contract was awarded was adjudged to be the only one which had the necessary vessels to provide reliable, regular service on the required frequency of two trips per week.
4.	Captain Jourdain agreed to transport mails on a frequency of one trip per week during the 1964 and 1965 navigation seasons under temporary arrangements negotiated before the opening of each summer season. The Department was not satisfied with Mr. Jourdain's service. After giving assurance that he had a suitable vessel to perform the required services, starting in April 1965, Captain Jourdain was unable to fulfil his agreement. During the period April 16 to May 28, Captain Jourdain arranged for fill-in service but from June 4 to July 2 a total of four trips he failed to provide the agreed-upon service and the trips were performed by La Compagnie de Transport du Bas St-Laurent Ltee, a subsidiary of Clarke Steamship Company Limited.


GRAZING LEASES, CAPE CROKER INDIAN RESERVE
Mr. Loney: 1.	What are the terms of agreement on land leased for grazing purposes on Cape Croker Indian reserve?
2.	What is the number of acres involved?
3.	What is the amount of money paid to the band?


Hon. Arthur Laing (Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources):: 1. The 13
grazing leases in effect on this reserve are for terms running from 2 to 6 years.
2.	Approximately 1,514 acres.
3.	$625 is paid annually to band funds and $260 is paid annually to individual Indians.


GRANT TO PEACE RESEARCH INSTITUTE
Mr. Woolliams: 1.	Has the government been asked for a contribution in reference to a drive for peace by the Canadian Peace Research Institute of which Dr. Norman Alcock is a member?
2.	Has a contribution been made by the federal government in reference to this organization and, if so, how much?


Mr. D. S. Macdonald (Parliamentary Secretary to Secretary of State for External Affairs):: 1. See answer to question No. 72 given to Mr. Howe, member for Hamilton South, by the Secretary of State for External Affairs on March 2, 1966. The Canadian Peace Research Abstracts Journal is a publication of the Canadian Peace Research Institute.
2. No.


R.C.M.P. INQUIRY, TROIS-RIVIERES, QUE.
Mr. Mongrain: 1.	Was an allegation made that a citizen of Trois-Rivie';res was struck by a member of the R.C.M.P. while being questioned on January 31, 1966?
2.	If so (a) was an inquiry made into this matter
(b)	what were the results of this inquiry (c) have instructions been given to forbid the use of such methods during interrogations?


Hon. L. T. Pennell (Solicitor General):: 1.
Yes.
2. (a) Yes. (b) It was determined that this allegation is without substance, (c) All members of the R.C.M.P. are instructed as to the proper method of conducting an interrogation.


MARITIME MARSHLAND WORK AT GREAT VILLAGE, N.S.
Mr. Crossman: 1.	Does the Maritime Marshland Rehabilitation Authority have work planned or underway at Great Village, Nova Scotia?
April 20. 1S66

2.	If so, what is the nature of that work?
3,	Have tenders been called and, if not, when will they be called?


Hon. Maurice Sauve (Minister of Forestry):: 1.	Yes (planned).
2.	Construction of dike, aboiteaux and ancillary works (for marshland protection).
3.	No-scheduled for late May, 1966.


POST OFFICE EMPLOYEES, ST. CYRILLE DE WENDOVER, QUE.
Mr. Caouette: 1. How many employees were hired by the post
Questions
office of St. Cyrille de Wendover, Drummond county, in 1964?
2.	What were the names of these employees?
3.	What were their wages?
4.	During what period did each of these employees work at that post office?


Joseph Julien Jean-Pierre Côté: 1.	Six.
2,	3 and 4:
Name	Salary	From	ToMr. Hilarion Lemire	$4260.00	January 1, 1964	December 31, 1964Mrs. Diana Daunais	1353.33	January 1, 1964	September 19, 1964Mrs. Therese Rutherford	929.95	January 1, 1964	December 31, 1964Miss Lise Genereux	189.84	November 30, 1964	December 31, 1964December 15, 1964	December 18, 1964Mr. P. Archambault	22.86	December 21, 1964	December 23, 1964July 13, 1964	July 24, 1964Mrs. Therese Lemire	59.50	(Total of 40 hours)	August 24, 1964	November 28, 1964
(Casual employment-Total of 16 hours)


CAPITAL COST ALLOWANCES FOR AIRCRAFT
Mr. Forreslall: 1.	Will the government examine section 11 (11) of the Income Tax Act which provides that certain taxpayers are eligible to claim capital cost of an automobile that is used in the course of their employment to help earn income, and consider amending the act to provide similar capital cost allowances for those individuals who substitute an aircraft for an automobile for the same purpose, by including the words "and/or aircraft" immediately after the word "automobile" in section 11 (11) of the said act?
2.	For what reason or reasons was mention of aircraft omitted from section 11 of the Income Tax Act which now applies only to a taxpayer's use of an automobile?


Mitchell William Sharp: 1. This has been examined in answer to representations made in past years and the decision reached was to propose no change.
2. The subsection referred to permits certain employees, who require transportation from place to place as they perform their employment, to claim capital cost allowances in respect of an automobile acquired for use in the performance of their duties. It has been considered sufficient to allow this deduction in respect of the means of transportation most
generally used and unnecessary to allow a deduction in respect of the capital cost of a boat or aircraft acquired by an employee for use in his employment.


OLD AGE SECURITY FUND
Mr. Howe (Hamilion South): As of March 1, 1966, what was the balance of the old age security fund?


Mitchell William Sharp: The balance at the credit of the old age security fund as of March 1, 1966, was $193,591,673.61.


EXPO '67-RECORDING OF R.C.M.P. BAND
Mr. Macaluso: Will the Minister of Labour use his offices with the American Federation of Musicians in order to obtain permission for a recording to be made of the R.C.M.P. band at Expo '67 as a cultural contribution to Canada's centennial year since this permission has been given to the United States army, air force, navy and marine corps for cultural purposes?


Hon. J. R. Nicholson (Minister of Labour):: Mr. Speaker, I have used my offices in this connection. Representations have been made to the American Federation of Musicians in

April 20. 1966
Questions
relation to the proposed recording of the R.C.M.P. band. The policy of the musicians union is that persons who are not members of the musicians union are not allowed to record since it would be in violation of the recording agreement between the recording companies and the union. The members of the R.C.M.P. band do not belong to the musicians union, and their participation in a recording would therefore violate the agreement between the record producers and the union.
In answer to the second part of the question, in the case of personnel of the military service bands in the United States, they are members of the union and therefore would be permitted to record.


RONALD B. RAMSEY-APPEARANCE ON C.B.C.
Mr. Laprise: Did the C.B.C. pay the travelling expenses of Ronald B. Ramsey when he went to Toronto recently for the purpose of participating in the program "This Hour Has Seven Days" and, if so, how much?


Julia Verlyn (Judy) LaMarsh: Yes. I am informed by the C.B.C. that the return air fare, $56.00 economy class New York to Toronto, was paid by the Corporation.


FEDERAL BUILDING SITE, AMHERST, N.S.
Mr. Coates: Has a site been selected for a new federal building to be constructed at Amherst, N.S. and, if so, (a) where is it located (b) what was the cost
1961	1962
(a)	1	0
(b)	Not available
(c)	"	''
*Estimate based on 1964 survey.
2.	No.
3.	No.
4.	Not available.
5.	No.

of the site in question (c) to whom were moneys paid in the securing of the site and in what amounts?


George James McIlraith: Yes, (a) Negotiations in progress to acquire a site located at the corner of Havelock and Prince Arthur streets, (b) and (c) Since the acquisition of the five properties concerned has not been finalized it is not possible at this time to determine the amount which will be paid to each property owner.


RABIES DISEASE
Mr. Laprise: 1.	Annually, since 1960	(a) how many deaths
have been caused by rabies (b) how many people required treatment after being bitten by an infected animal (c) how many people required vaccination against this disease (i) in Canada (ii) in Quebec (iii) in the constituency of Chapleau?
2.	Has the federal government helped financially the victims of the disease and, if so, to what extent?
3.	Has an agreement been entered into with the province of Quebec for joint assistance to the victims of this disease and, if so, what are the terms of this agreement?
4.	What is the aggregate amount of compensation received annually since I960 by victims (a) in Canada (b) in Quebec (c) in the constituency of Chapleau?
5.	Has an agreement been entered into with the province of Quebec to find preventive measures to eradicate the possibility of human beings catching the disease and, if so (a) what are the terms of this agreement (b) what sums has the federal government spent annually since this agreement came into effect?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: 1.
1963	1964	19650	1 Not	available0	*1,155 "	tf0	* (i)	1,155 "	it(ii)	153	(iii)	Not available	
[English1


INCORPORATIONS UNDER DEFENCE PRODUCTION ACT
Mr. Ryan: What corporations, if any, have been incorporated under part I of the Companies Act with the
April 20, I960



approval of the Governor in Council pursuant to the powers given by section 7 of the Defence Production Act?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: Defence Construction (1951) Limited by order in council P.C. 2269 dated May 10, 1951.


MAIL CONTRACTS, EASTERN PROVINCIAL AIRWAYS
[Stage Direction]
*
Mr. Forrestall: 1.	Are any mail contracts at present held by Eastern Provincial Airways and, if so, how many?
2.	What is the travel detail of each contract?
3.	What is the dollar content of each contract?
4.	What is the volume by weight, of each contract?


Joseph Julien Jean-Pierre Côté: 1. Yes, 9 contracts.
2.	(1) Serving intermediate points between Gander and Nain and return on a weekly frequency with the exception of Change Islands, Fogo and Stag Harbour which are served semi-weekly and conveying all classes of mail during the season of closed navigation. (2) St. John's-Goose Airport via Deer Lake and return, frequency 5 trips per week conveying all classes of mail. (3) St. John's- Wabush via Deer Lake and return, frequency 5 trips per week conveying all classes of mail. (4) Deer Lake-St. Anthony and return, frequency 2 trips per week conveying all classes of mail. (5) Wabush-Twin Falls and return, frequency weekly conveying all classes of mail. (6) St. John's or Gander-St. Albans and return, frequency daily except Sunday conveying first class mail. (7) Moncton-Charlottetown-Halifax via Summerside and New Glasgow and return, frequency 3 trips per day except Sunday, Moncton, Charlottetown and one trip Sunday. Daily except Sunday service between Charlotteown and Halifax conveying first class mail. (8) Moncton-Goose Airport and return, frequency 2 trips per week conveying all classes of mail. (9) Moncton- Magdalen Islands and return, frequency daily except Sunday conveying all classes of mail.
3.	(1) .003 cents per pound mile, annual cost, $231,093.74; (2) .24 cents per pound, annual cost, $45,128.70; (3) .34 cents per pound first class 10 cents per pound other classes, annual cost, $30,059.00; (4) .13 cents per pound, annual cost. St. Anthony airport closed part of year due to construction, $136.40; (5) .003 cents per pound mile, annual cost approx. Not in operation for a full year, $8,500.00; (6) St. John's-St. Albans, 11 cents per pound, Gander-St. Albans, 7 cents per pound. Estimated annual cost, $821.52. Service
Questions
established December 22nd, 1965; (7) $8.55 per ton-mile, annual cost, $111,278.94; (8) .24 cents per pound, annual cost, $70,736.40; (9) $1.30 per ton-mile, annual cost approximately $85,000.00.
4.	(1) 390,181 pounds; (2) 194,119 pounds; (3) 232,863 pounds; (4) 248 pounds; (5) 26,000 pounds approximately; (6) 11,736 pounds approximately; (7) 477,304 pounds; (8) 294,735 pounds; (9) 744,358 pounds.


LETTERS OF COMMITMENT, CANADIAN CAR MANUFACTURERS
Mr, Hales: Has $260 million of additional Canadian value been added as outlined in the letters of commitment between the government of Canada and Canadian car manufacturers and, if so, what portion has been achieved to date by each of these car manufacturers?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: 1.	The companies producing motor vehicles in Canada, which are covered by motor vehicles tariff order 1965, have undertaken to achieve an increase in their annual level of Canadian value added in the production of motor vehicles and original equipment parts in Canada, in an amount equal to $260 million, by the twelve month period ending July 31, 1968.
Reports received to date, which are confidential, indicate that the companies are making satisfactory progress toward meeting their Canadian value added commitments under the program.


MAIL SERVICE, GRUNTHAL, MAN.
Mr. Jorgenson: Has there been a request from the village of Grunthal, Manitoba, for the improvement of mailing delivery services and, if so (a) did the request include better facilities and mailing delivery services in Grunthal (b) were representations made by anyone other than the Chamber of Commerce
(c)	were any representations written or otherwise opposed to the improvement of the facilities and mailing delivery services?


John Cole: (a) There has been no request from the village of Grunthal for the improvement of mail delivery services. However, the Grunthal Chamber of Commerce made representations for better facilities and mailing delivery service, (b) No. (c) No.

April 20, 1966
Questions


UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RECEIPTS AND PAYMENTS
Mr. Godin: 1.	How many Canadians paid contributions to the Unemployment Insurance Commission in 1963 and in 1964?
2.	What was the amount received throughout Canada for each of these years?
3.	In the same period, what was the amount paid to unemployed persons by the commission?
4.	In 1963 and 1964, how many persons registered at the unemployment office in the city of Quebec, and of these how many were from Portneuf county?
5.	Among those who registered in the city of Quebec and who were from Portneuf county (a) how many were eligible for benefits (b) how many were turned down?
6.	Since the institution of the Unemployment Insurance Commission, how many contributors have died without receiving any benefits?


John Robert (Jack) Nicholson: I am informed by the Unemployment Insurance Commission as follows: 1. This information is not available.
2.	Contributions paid to the unemployment
insurance fund during the fiscal year 1963-64 amounted to $355,902,875-1964-65,	$372,-
901,531.
3.	Unemployment insurance benefits paid
in Canada during the fiscal year 1963-64 amounted to $365,654,718-1964-65,	$335,-
030,187.
4.	5 and 6. This information is not available.


ILLEGAL STILLS SEIZED
Mr. Godin: 1.	How many illegal stills were seized monthly during the years 1961, 1962 and 1963?
2.	What was the total number of illegal stills seized during 1964 throughout (a) Canada (b) the province of Quebec (c) St. Maurice-Laflcche county
(d)	Portneuf county?


Lawrence T. Pennell: 1.
1961	1962	1963January	12	32	29February	18	21	34March	18	22	22April	23	23	23May	19	21	28June	13	11	12July	16	15	27August	15	19	16September	15	12	22October	19	15	24November	14	33	28December	33	41	38(a) 247, (b) 45,	(c) 7,	(d) None.


LETTERS OF ASSURANCE TO NOVA SCOTIA BUSINESSES
Mr. Bower: 1.	Have any businesses in Nova Scotia received letters of assurance as at February 28, 1966, that their plans for projects, if carried out, would meet the requirements of section 71H of the Income Tax Act or the Area Development Incentives Act and, if so (a) how many (b) how many in the federal constituency of Shelburne-Yarmouth-Clare?
2.	Have any further letters of assurance been sent out to businesses in Nova Scotia since February 28, 1966, and, if so (a) how many such letters have been sent (b) in particular, how many have been sent to firms located in or planning to locate in the federal constituency of Shelburne-Yarmouth-Clare?
3.	Is the government aware of any further public announcements by firms of their intentions to establish in designated national employment service areas in Nova Scotia and, if so (a) what are the names of these firms (b) where in Nova Scotia are they located?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: 1.	(a) and (b) Fifteen businesses in Nova Scotia had received letters of assurance as at February 28, 1966, that the plans for their projects, if carried out, would meet the requirements of section 71A of the Income Tax Act or the Area Development Incentives Act. One of these refers to a firm which plans to establish a project in the geographic area covered by the federal electoral constituency of Shelburne-Yarmouth-Clare.
2.	No additional letters of assurance have gone to businesses in Nova Scotia since February 28, 1966.
3.	No.


QUALIFICATIONS OF PENITENTIARY INSTRUCTORS
Mr. Orlikow: What qualifications are required by the vocational training instructors and industrial instructors who are employed by the federal penitentiaries?


Lawrence T. Pennell: Vocational Training Instructors: Grade 12 or equivalent; matriculation from technical high school preferred. Trade background of at least five years at the journeyman level. Valid certificate of qualification of the trade in which he is to be employed. Valid teacher's certificate; verified teacher training or experience in instructional techniques. Knowledge of apprenticeship methods and training systems, including ability to plan, organize and teach courses; demonstrated knowledge and experience in man-management. Good character, sound judgment, acceptable personality. Good physical condition.
April 20, 1966

Industrial Instructors: Grade 10 or equivalent. From 3 to 5 years experience as a journeyman in the trade. Good working knowledge *of all phases of the trade. Good working knowledge of the care, safe efficient use, running repair and maintenance of all machinery and equipment used in his shop. Fundamental knowledge of bookkeeping practices, first aid, safe working practices. Ability to provide on the job instruction. Good character, sound judgment, acceptable personality. Good physical condition.
VOCATIONAL TRAINING IN PENITENTIARIES Question No. 1,194


Mr. Orlikow:: 1.	How many inmates of federal penitentiaries are now receiving training which is recognized by provincial and federal apprenticeship boards?
2.	How many vacancies are there at present for vocational training instructors and school teachers in the various penitentiaries, and in what institutions do these vacancies exist?
3.	How many hours does an inmate actually spend in vocational training shop per day, excluding taking counts and movement to and from place of training?


Lawrence T. Pennell: 1.	Full time formal trade school training, 371. Part time, on the job, and apprenticeship training, 383. Total, 754.
2.	Vacancies are as follows:
Vocational
Training
Instructors Teachers *
*Springhill	9	4
*Special correction unit (Quebec)			2
Cowansville Institution	8	4Federal Training Centre	1	-Collin's Bay Penitentiary	2	-Saskatchewan Penitentiary	-	1British Columbia Penitentiary	1	Matsqui Institution-male	11	4*Matsqui Institution-female	5	2Matsqui Institution- Pilot project	2	--Total	39	17
*These institutions have an authorized establishment but are not in operation as yet.
3.	7.12 hours.
Questions


TRAINING OF PENITENTIARY STAFF
Mr. Orlikow: 1.	Is remunerative recognition given to professional penitentiary staff who have qualifications exceeding the minimum requirements of the penitentiary service?
2.	Are there monetary incentives provided for custodial staff in federal penitentiaries to improve their education and training for greater proficiency in job performance?
3.	Do all custodial officers in correctional institutions receive training in the behavioural sciences by qualified professional staff?
4.	Does the federal government contemplate the provision of training grants and bursaries for its employees in the field of correction and welfare in view of the fact that moneys are now made available to the provinces for similar training in these fields?


Lawrence T. Pennell: 1.
Yes. The salaries of teachers, instructors, psychologists and classification officers are based on their education and experience. Leave with pay is granted to teachers to attend educational courses once in every third year.
2.	Yes. In accordance with the correctional officers training plan, the custodial officer is given the opportunity to increase his knowledge and experience through regularly planned steps, both at the institution and staff colleges. He may then be placed on a regional eligible list for promotion as soon as a vacancy occurs.
3.	Fundamentals in human behavioural sciences are taught in staff college courses. Follow up training is conducted at the institutions by psychiatrists and psychologists according to the needs at each institution.
4.	In the case of the Canadian penitentiary service, financial arrangements have been made for officers in order that they may take postgraduate training in the field of corrections and welfare. A few selected officers attend universities full time and are granted allowances related to their salaries together with tuition fees.


JUVENILE OFFENDERS IN PENITENTIARIES
Mr. Orlikow: 1.	How many juvenile offenders are now in federal penitentiaries?
2.	In how many cases did the court have presentence recommendations from social workers, probation officers, psychiatrists, etc.?
3.	What facilities, if any, are there for segregation of these juveniles from the adult inmates?

April 20, I960
Questions


Lawrence T. Pennell: 1.
87.
2.	This information is not available within this department.
3.	No separate facilities exist as such. However, in the Montreal area, many are transferred to the federal training centre, an institution for young offenders and an attempt is made to segregate them from the older age group. In other institutions, attempts are also made to segregate juveniles from the adult inmates, as far as circumstances permit.
A new medium security institution at Cowansville has been recently opened and will accommodate young offenders and selected adults; some juveniles will likely be transferred there also. Three more institutions of the same type as Cowansville, at Springhill, N.S., Warkworth, Ontario, and Drumheller, Alberta will be opening in the next few months.


HOURS OF WORK OF PROFESSIONAL PENITENTIARY STAFF
Mr. Orlikow: How many of the psychologists, psychiatrists, physicians and dentists employed by the federal government work full-time at the penitentiaries and, of those who work part-time, how many hours per week does each work in the penitentiaries?


Lawrence T. Pennell: There is a total of 15 psychologists, psychiatrists, physicians and dentists employed full time by the Canadian penitentiary service. A total of seven are employed part time and they work 15 hours per week. In addition, the penitentiary service has contracts with 29 individuals, i.e. psychiatrists, psychologists, physicians and dentists, for professional services in accordance with requirements.


HALIFAX AIRPORT TERMINAL ELEVATOR
Mr. Forreslall: L Was provision made at the Halifax international airport terminal, at the time of its construction, for an elevator?
2. If so, would the government give consideration to its installation?


James Allen (Jim) Byrne: 1. No.
2. The department has under review a proposal to instal a passenger/freight elevator to serve the restaurant and lounge and to carry personnel and equipment to the Department of Transport offices on the upper floor.


AIR CONDITIONING AT AIRPORT TERMINALS
Mr. Forreslall: 1.	Which Department of Transport airport terminals now have air-conditioning systems?
2.	Does the government plan to extend such installations to any other terminals and, if so, at what locations?
3.	Are any such installations being made at the present time and, if so, where?


James Allen (Jim) Byrne: 1. Air conditioning systems have been provided for the operational and/or public areas of the following air terminal buildings:	Gander, Nfld., Halifax,
N.S., Fredericton, N.B., Quebec City, P.Q., Montreal, P.Q., Ottawa, Ont., Toronto, Ont., London, Ont., Windsor, Ont., North Bay, Ont., Sault Ste. Marie, Ont., Lakehead, Ont., Winnipeg, Man., Regina, Sask., Saskatoon, Sask., Edmonton, Alta., Victoria, B.C., Port Hardy, B.C.
2.	No provision has been made in the current (1966-67) fiscal year estimates to instal air conditioning systems in other air terminal buildings.
3.	Yes, Moncton, N.B.


MARRIAGE ALLOWANCE FOR R.C.A.F. OFFICERS
Mr. Tucker: 1.	At what age can an R.C.A.F. officer receive marriage allowance?
2.	Is there another subsistence allowance less than the marriage allowance available for married officers not eligible for marriage allowance?


Hon. Leo Cadieux (Associate Minister of National Defence):: 1. 23.
2. No, however, married officers who do not receive marriage allowance due to the age limitation are entitled, when married quarters are not available, to subsistence allowance but at a reduced rate which varies according to rank.


ARDA PROGRAM, MONTMAGNY-LTSLET
Mr. Berger: 1.	How much money did the federal government spend under the ARDA program in Montmagny-L'lslet in 1965, and for what specific purposes was this money spent?
2.	What is the estimated expenditure of the department concerned in regard to Montmagny-L'Islet for the year 1966?


Maurice Sauvé: 1. See the following list.
April 20, 1966

Questions
2. As it is the responsibility of the province ects and programs under ARDA, this into initiate and carry out the majority of proj- formation is not available.


PROJECTS APPROVED IN MO NTMAGNY-L'ISLET IN 1965
[Stage Direction]
Project No. 5005
Approved
March
June
General Area of
Description Category Activity
Study of farm Research Islet, Ka-woodlots to im-	mouraska,
prove manage-	& Rivierement and yields	du-Loup
Counties
Socio-economic Research ITslet Co. survey of population activity-St.
Marcel municipality
Total
Cost
[Stage Direction]
Federal
Contribution

Mr. Ballard: 1.	Are there any professional clinical treatment personel (i.e., those eligible for membership in their professional associations), namely, psychiatrists, psychologists, and social workers, in the Canadian penitentiary service and, if so, what are their names and present appointments?
2.	What is the establishment for personnel in each of the above professions in the Canadian penitentiary service?
3.	Do any vacancies exist at present and; if so, how many?
4.	Does the Canadian penitentiary service have provision for bursaries for personnel to take postgraduate professional training at Canadian universities?


Lawrence T. Pennell: 1. (a)
There are in the Canadian penitentiary service eight psychiatrists and all are members of a professional association. They are: Dorchester, Dr. Philippe Michel, part time; Dr. R. G. Crandall. St. Vincent de Paul, Dr. Bruno M. Cormier, part time; Dr. D'a Voyer. Kingston Penitentiary, Prison for Women, Joyceville, Collin's Bay, Dr. George D. Scott, full time; Dr. R. J. MacCaldon, part time; and consultants when required. Manitoba, Dr. S. D. Schultz, part time psychiatrist. Saskatchewan, Referral made to North Battleford Institution and to Yorkton Institution. British Columbia, Dr. D. C. MacDonald, part time psychiatrist. Matsqui Institution, Dr. D. Craigen.
(b) There are eleven psychologists in the penitentiary service. They are: Dorchester, Mabey, D. E. Regional headquarters (Que.),
Morin, J. A., Ligonde, P., Tremblay, J. L. J., Charron, M. O. A. I. (Miss). Regional headquarters (Ont.), Martinez, Paloma R. (Mrs.), Benson, M. (Miss). Saskatchewan, Geddes, J. H. Regional headquarters (west.), Des-Lauriers, Dr. P. L. Matsqui, Ross, W. J. Gardy, T. T.
(c) In addition there are 81 classification officers including 23 who have postgraduate degrees in sociology, education or social work and work in a professional capacity. They are: Dorchester Penitentiary, M. J. Gallant, K. H. Chappell, Z. J. A. Gaudet. St. Vincent de Paul Penitentiary, G. Lemire, J. R. R. Nadeau, J. A. M. E. Gosselin. Cowansville Institution, J. M. G. E. Abgral, J. P. M. A. Lafleur. Federal Training Centre, J. M. G. Lemire. Leclerc Institution, J. R. R. Martin, J. L. R. M. Roy. Regional headquarters (Ont.), S. M. Farrell. Prison for Women, Mrs. M. E. Batstone. Manitoba Penitentiary, O. M. Chaudhry, C. E. Dumaine.
Saskatchewan Penitentiary, E. C. Tremblay, W. M. Reydon. Regional headquarters (west.), W. Mort. Matsqui Institution, C. L. Clegg, J. F. M. Edwards-Evans, B. C. Murphy, D. R.
MacGregor, Miss D. Kvietys.		
2.		Establishment
	Psychiatrists (part time)	8
	Psychiatrists (full time)	1
	Psychologists (full time)	30
	Classification officers	92
3.		Vacant Positions
	Psychiatrists (part time)	4
	Psychiatrists (full time)	-
	Psychologists (full time)	18
	Classification officers	11

April 20, 1966
Questions
4.	The Canadian penitentiary service does not have bursaries as such but financial arrangements are made tor officers in order that they may take postgraduate training at universities offering correctional and welfare courses. A few selected officers attend universities full time and are granted tuition fees and allowances equal to their salaries. Three officers are completing master degrees this year under this plan.


MENTAL HEALTH RESEARCH GRANTS
Mr. Orlikow: Are any psychiatric research projects being conducted by the universities, governments, and private foundations being financed by federal health grants for the current year and, if so (a) what is the value of each grant (b) what is the total value of these grants for mental health research being done in each province (c) what is the total value of these grants for Canada?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: Yes. Under the public health research grant, the Department of National Health and Welfare has allocated funds in 1966-67 toward the conduct of research into the prevention and treatment of mental illness and for the promotion of mental health in Canada at various Canadian universities, hospitals and other health agencies,
(a)	Seventy one research projects are being supported with the values of the grants varying from $975 to $41,440. (b) Newfoundland, $13,673; Prince Edward Island, $11,269; Nova Scotia, $29,690; New Brunswick, Nil; Quebec, $158,963; Ontario, $186,300; Manitoba, $48,758; Saskatchewan, $118,016; Alberta, $45,970; British Columbia, $139,538; Northwest Territories, Nil; Yukon Territory, Nil. (c) $752,177.


MENTAL HEALTH GRANTS TO UNIVERSITIES
Mr. Orlikow: 1.	Are any psychiatrists in training for the current year in receipt of training grants from the federal government and, if so (a) how many (b) what is the value of each grant (c) what is the total value of the grants (dj what are the plans for next year's grants?
2.	Have any commitments been made for the next five years to the universities and the medical colleges, in the field of mental health?
3.	Have any requests been made by the medical colleges for the next five years in the field of mental health?
4.	Have any requests from the medical colleges in the field of mental health gone up, year by year in the past five years and, if so, how much?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: 1. Yes. (a) 67. (b) Payments to trainees taking professional training

are set by the provinces according to the need of the individual, but they are not to exceed $250 monthly for persons without dependants and $300 for persons with dependants. Besides a bursary, a trainee may receive travel expenses to and from the place of training only once during the training period; transportation costs to and from the place of training when a trainee is out on field work outside his training centre; tuition fees as actually charged by the training institution; and an allowance for books and technical supplies not exceeding $50 for the full course. Bursaries may be claimed for trainees during the period of actual training. This period may include a reasonable period of travel to and from the training centre. It is understood that the provinces in certain cases supplement the federal assistance. For short training courses, the duration of which does not exceed three months, actual reasonable living expenses may be requested. Living expenses are to be accounted for on the basis of provincial regulations governing travelling and maintenance expenses, (c) $55,565 for 1966/67. (d) The national health grants represent a federal-provincial program. Provincial plans for the submission of project against next year's and, to some extent, subsequent years' grants are presently under study in all provinces. The resulting submissions of projects and consultations with provincial planners will begin in December of this year.
2.	See answer 1 (d).
3.	The annual submissions of projects received from the provinces on behalf of training, research and health services in medical colleges, request the continuance of federal assistance in subsequent years, although a five year period is not always specified.
4.	The following funds were made available on the request of the provinces to Canadian universities and their medical colleges in the field of mental health: 1961-62, $1,141,793; 1962-63, $1,246,549; 1963-64, $955,342; 1964-65, $895,033; 1965-66, $825,243.


APPLICATIONS FOR RESEARCH GRANTS
Mr. Orlikow: Has the Department of National Health and Welfare received any applications for grants to finance research projects and, if so (a) how many in each of the past three years (b) what was their total dollar value (c) how many were approved in full (d) how many were approved in part only (e) how many were refused, and in each case, for what reason or reasons?
April 20. 1966

Questions
Hon. A. J. MacEachen (Minister of National
Health and Welfare): Yes.
(a)	1963-64
(b)	$4,665,989
(c)	85
(d)	106
353

A few projects were cancelled or altered at the request of the researchers on their sponsoring provinces.
Research projects do not receive approval as submitted under the national health grants when they exceed the funds allocated for this purpose or when they are considered by appraisers, consultants and advisory committees to be poorly designed or unsound research.


DRUG PURCHASES FOR VETERANS AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT
Mr. Brand: Will all purchasing of drugs for the Department of Veterans Affairs be transferred to the Department of Defence Production on April 1, 1966 and, if so (a) will there be a qualified pharmacist or physician on the purchasing staff (b) will all purchasing be done by regular personnel?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: 1. Yes, responsibility for the purchasing of drugs for the Department of Veterans Affairs was transferred to the Department of Defence
Production on April 1, 1966 excluding emergency requirements and requirements of a non-recurring nature costing less than $25 per order, (a) Yes, there is a qualified pharmacist on the purchasing staff, (b) Yes, all purchasing will be done by regular personnel augmented by personnel transferred from the Department of Veterans Affairs including the qualified pharmacist. In addition, technical assistance is available from professional personnel in the customer department.


PAYMENTS TO ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES COMMISSION EMPLOYEES
Mr. Bell (Carleton): 1.	Referring to the answer to question No. 481 (Hansard, page 2920 for March 21, 1966) are the persons employed by the electoral boundaries commissions paid salaries and expenses by cheques issued by the comptroller of the treasury?
2.	If so, what are the names of the persons to whom the comptroller of the treasury issued cheques for such salaries and expenses during the years 1965 and 1966, and what was the amount of the cheques issued to each person for salaries and expenses?
3. If such persons are paid otherwise than by cheques so issued by the comptroller of the treasury, by what technique are they paid salaries and expenses?


Mitchell William Sharp: 1.	Yes.
2.	Details are in the attached listing.
3.	Not applicable.
Electoral Boundaries Commission
Names, Salaries and	Expenses	of Persons	Employed	Name	1965	1966 to March 31st	Manitoba	Salary	Expenses	Total	Salary Expenses	TotalGilpin, George Ernest Devion, Sandra Anne Beresford, Henry Edward	7,110.00 3,133.88 840.00	435.65	7,545.65 3,133.88 840.00	1,200.00	1,200.00Saskatchewan	Malone, Edward C.	8,280.00	550.50	8,830.50	1,020.00	1,020.00Geddes, Virginia Viminitz, Max	892.50 140.00	892.50 140.00	61.25	61.25Alberta	Head, Ivan L.	8,310.00	2,153.81	10,463.81	1,020.00 256.75	1,276.75Cameron, Ann M. O'Sullivan, J. F. B.	4,169.75 1,725.00	654.30	4,169.75 2,379.30	301.75	301.75Orobko, W. P.	350.00	330.45	680.45	48.00	48.00
Questions
Name
British Columbia
Wilson, Robert Wilson, Mrs. Robert Gracey, Barbara Doreen Cherry, D. H.
Moore, M. V.
Nelson, J.
Official Court Reporter Newfoundland Burridge, John C.
Wade, J. Timothy Moore, Dorothy
Nova Scotia
Anderson, Donald De Blois MacDonald, Heather J. Lawson, Kenneth G. Martin, Patricia Pauline March, John E. R. Blackie, Gordon Fisher, Andrew Wodolawski, Marie
Prince Edward Island MacLeod, Ian M. MacKenzie, Carroll A.* Tweedy, C. S. Mrs.* Brophy, J. A.
McKenna, J. C.
Scott, Alex Simmons, Joyce M.
New Brunswick Turnbull, Wallace S. Bonnycastle, Hilary Ann Pierce, M. Elizabeth Leblanc, Lorraine C.
Quebec Caron, Yves Allard, Therese Langlois, Claude Tanguay, Gerard Martel, Fernand
Ontario
Gadsby, Sidney J. Tappenden, Charles W. Dell, Sophie

Salary	Expenses	Total4,986.00	783.90	5,769.905,971.50	484.09	6,455.59141.77	141.7788.00	88.00111.50	111.50637.80	637.80700.00	700.007,560.00	590.70	8,150.70698.25	698.258,370.00	404.50	8,774.502,999.62	124.90	3,124.5247.25	49.53	96.78194.30	194.301,085.00	1,085.0080.00	5.20	85.2080.00	23.85	103.858.40	8.408,280.00	169.30	8,449.303,306.00	3,306.0025.00	25.0025.00	25.0025.00	25.0085.50	5.90	91.408,460.00	651.55	9,111.552,932.50	308.10	3,240.60669.75	669.75376.00	300.20	676.208,388.00	548.50	8,936.503,960.00	3,960.0070.00	70.00490.00	52.80	542.80490.00	90.40	580.408,496.00	542.30	9,038.30385.00	385.004,130.00	4,130.00
April 20, 1966
1966 to March 31st Salary Expenses Total
110.00	110.00
915.00	915.00
90.50	90.50
870.00	870.00
42.00	42.00
720.00	720.00
427.50	427.50
810.00	810.00
11.75	11.75
900.00	900.00
720.00	720.00
900.00	900.00
700.00	700.00
* Same person i.e. subsequent to Dec. 1965. Tweedy (nee MacKenzie) Carroll W. Mrs.


REGINA, SASK.-SECURITY BOND ON HOUSING DEVELOPMENT
Mr. Brand: 1.	Did Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation require a labour and material payment bond by the 
contractor, G. Barker Construction Limited, for the benefit of sub-contractors supply labour or material required in the performance of the contract for the low rental housing development, block A, Glen Elm Park south, plan 63-R-25686, Regina, Saskatchewan?
April 20. 1966

2.	If so (a) what is the name of the insurance company acting as surety to Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation (b) what is the amount of the bond (c) was the surety obliged to make payment under the bond to subcontractor claimants and, if so (i) what total amount has been paid to the said claimants (ii) what are the particulars of payments made (iii) do any claimants remain unpaid by the surety and, if so, what are the particulars of same with amounts claimed?
Questions


John Robert (Jack) Nicholson: 1. Yes.
2.	(a) The Dominion Insurance Corporation,
(b)	Performance bond, $712,119.88; Labour and material payment bond, $712,119.88. (c) Yes. (i) $173,592.01.
(ii)	Payee
Amount
Particulars

B.	B. Torchinsky & Assoc. Ltd.	18.00
Precast Concrete Limited	373.12
Drummond & Reeves Limited	335.70
Mackenzie & Thayer Limited	101.85
Ross M. Rodger Limited	85.31
City Lumber Yards Limited	3,294.14
C.	F. Sterne & Sons	2,451.47
Pilot Butte Sand & Gravel Co.
Limited	388.86
Con-Spec Sales Limited	346.61
Peacock Electric	5,928.45
Clark Roofing (Sask.) Ltd.	5,068.55
Furnasman Limited	2,989.69
Silverline Decorators Co. Ltd.	800.00
Modern Insulators Limited	697.12
Redi-Mix Concrete Limited	12,994.14
Cindercrete Products Limited	13,395.42
Stewart Reeson Masonry Prod. Ltd. 5,613.35 Dominion Lime & Brick Ltd.	4,724.10
Ontario Culvert & Metal Prod.	5,300.00
Saskatchewan Steel Fabricators Ltd. 2,226.87
Mechanical Dry Wall (Northern) Ltd. 2,340.00
Marshall Wells of Canada Ltd.	386.40
William S. Salmon	21,488.08
Workmen's Compensation Board	179.66
B.	B. Torchinsky & Assoc. Ltd.	20.00
Fred Kroeskamp (labourer)	99.32
Arnold Kroeskamp (labourer)	55.60
Western Aluminum Products Ltd.	32,135.22
Pawliw Excavating	3,000.00
Rogers Lumber Company	41,327.45
Machenzie & Thayer Limited	700.00
C.	N. Weber Limited	2,840.99
Hauser Trenching & Excavating	64.00
Westeel Products Limited	1,822.54
Testing of concrete.
Supply of precast concrete material. Supply of clean out doors and thimbles. Supply of white exterior stucco. Particulars
Supply of Bostitch staples.
Supply of lumber.
Supply of mortar buff.
Supply of brick sand.
Supply of Cop-R-Flash and Sure Klean. Supply of electrical equipment and labour.
Supply of roofing materials and labour. Supply of heating equipment and labour. Supply of labour (painting).
Supply of insulating materials and labour.
Supply of Redi-Mix concrete.
Supply of concrete building blocks. Supply of brick, tile and cement.
Supply of brick.
Supply of window wells and gates. Supply of screen stops, angle frames, hinge assemblies and canopy posts. Supply of vapor barrier and labour. Supply of hardware.
Supply of plumbing and heating equipment and labour.
Assessment by Workmen's Comp. Board. Testing of concrete.
Supply of labour.
Supply of labour.
Supply of aluminum windows, sills and casings.
Supply of labour and including equipment.
Supply of lumber.
Rental of equipment and payment for equipment lost on site.
Supply of hardware.
Supply of labour.
Supply of damp-proof courses and miscellaneous flashings, and structural steel frames.

Questions

April 20, 1966
(iii) Yes.
Payee	Amount
D.	Schouten	Included
in
Gormans
Ltd.
claim
on
Saskatoon
project
($7,800)


SASKATOON, SASK.-SECURITY BOND ON HOUSING DEVELOPMENT
Mr. Brand: 1.	Did Central Mortage and Housing Corporation require a labour and material payment bond by the contractor, G. Barker Construction Limited, for the benefit of subcontractors supplying labour or material required in the performance of the contract for the low rental housing development in Saskatoon?
2.	If so (a) what is the name of the insurance company acting as surety to Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation (b) what is the amount of the
Particulars
This claimant apparently was an independent contractor in Regina and the claim is subject of litigation in conjunction with the Saskatoon claim. (See Question No. 1,221).
bond (c) was the surety obliged to make payment under the bond to subcontractor claimants and, if so (i) what total amount has been paid to the said claimants (ii) what are the particulars of payments made (iii) do any claimants remain unpaid by the surety and, if so, what are the particulars of same with amounts claimed?


John Robert (Jack) Nicholson: 1. Yes.
2. (a) The Dominion Insurance Corporation; (b) Performance bond, $515,266.00; Labour and material payment bond, $515,266.00. (c>
yes. (i) $28,871.89;
(ii) Payee	Amount

Mechanical Drywall (Sask.) Ltd. 6,991.85
Con-Spec Sales Limited	216.82
Asphalt Services Limited	429.00
City Lumber Yards Limited	90.58
D.H.I. Limited	1,500.00
Metro Painting (Brantford)	15,935.46
Bennet Floors	3,604.18
Redi Mix Concrete	104.00

(iii) Yes.
Payee	Amount
Winnipeg Supply & Fuel Co.	-
Gorman's Limited	Approx. $7,800.00
Particulars
Compromise settlement because of back charges by Barker and Metro Painting. Basically payment is for gypsum wallboard and vapor barriers.
This is for liquid sealer.
Asphalt paving of play area.
Lumber supply.
Materials supplied-windows and glass inserts. Compromise settlement $1,500.00.
Compromise settlement of supreme court action for painting and holdback. $5,340.00 paid to Metro Painting and D. F. Miller, Q.C. $10,595.46 paid to Metro Painting.
Materials.
Compromise settlement-materials.
[DOT]*-a.:.
Particulars
Have started action against Barker in Regina. Default judgment. Garnishee order against CMHC. Paid $5,686.44 into court. Credits $1,250.00. Offer to compromise is made.
This is a supplier to a subcontractor (Schouten) and the matter at the present time is in litigation. Compromise indicated. (See Question No. 1,220).

April 20, 1966


*CONTROL OVER TECHNICAL SCHOOL DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS
Mr. Forresiall: Are any controls, regulations or legislation at present in effect in Canada to ensure that federal moneys extended to the provinces on a cost-sharing Stasis for technical school development programs are used for this specific purpose and, if so, what are they?


John Carr Munro: Yes. Control over the uses to which federal contributions toward technical and vocational training projects and programs are put by the provinces is exercised through the provisions of the Technical and Vocational Training Assistance Act and the technical and vocational training and apprenticeship training agreements made thereunder with the provinces. The act and the agreements authorize federal contributions to be made only in respect of costs or expenditures incurred by the provinces for purposes specified therein. The act describes these purposes in general terms; the agreements describe them in detail and also make provision for individual approval of capital expenditure and certain other projects by the minister or administrators of his department. The agreements further require that the provinces maintain full records of all expenditures and commitments made as well as revenues and refunds received in respect of such agreements, and that the provinces permit access to such records, documents and files as may be deemed necessary by the comptroller of the treasury, the Auditor General of Canada, or other authorized officers of the federal government for the audit of expenditure under the agreements.


NATIONAL DEFENCE PREVAILING RATE WAGES
Mr. Madill: 1.	In areas of Canada where the Department of National Defence is the largest employer of a single trade or occupation, what methods are used In determining wage scales for prevailing rate employees in that trade?
2.	What base is used for determining the wage rate for prevailing rate painters at Camp Borden?


Julia Verlyn (Judy) LaMarsh: In so far as the Department of National Defence is concerned: 1. Under the present government prevailing rate policy, the Treasury Board approves pursuant to section 4 of the prevailing rate general regulations, prevailing rates of pay for public service employees.
Questions
Those rates are determined by the Treasury Board following surveys by the Department of Labour of the wages prevailing in the private sector for similar trades in all departments in that area. The fact that one employing department may be the largest employer of a single trade or occupation in the area has no bearing on the wage determination. The exceptions to this method are found in the two naval dockyards where the trades engaged in ship repair or allied work are determined on the basis of rates paid in shipyards either on the east or west coast as the case may be. Although the basis of determination varies in these two cases, the Department of Labour still retains the responsibility for recommending the rates for Treasury Board approval.
In so far as the Department of Labour is concerned: 1. In such areas, the rates recommended for payment to prevailing rate employees are based on rates paid by private employers to employees doing comparable work in the area of employment. If there is insufficient local data on which to base recommendations, a wider area is used.
2. Barrie, Ontario.


UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE FUND
Mr. Crossman: What was the total amount to the credit of the unemployment insurance fund on January 31, each year since 1956?


Mitchell William Sharp: January 31, 1956, $885,542,796; 1957, $916,429,488; 1958, $838,917,441; 1959, $586,990,921; 1960, $445,885,387; 1961, $283,742,150; 1962, $135,877,305; 1963, $71,803,065; 1964, $42,895,204; 1965, $75,796,646; 1966, $161,919,787.


UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE. NORTHWEST TERRITORIES
Mr. Orange: 1.	Does the government have any plans to open one or more permanent unemployment insurance commission offices in the Northwest Territories and, if not, for what reason?
2.	Were any claims paid by unemployment insurance commission offices in Canada in the years 1964 and 1965 for persons resident in the district of Franklin, district of Keewatin and the district of Mackenzie, and, if so (a) how many (b) of these how many were with respect to Eskimo and Indian residents of these areas (c) what was the location of the offices paying such claims?


John Robert (Jack) Nicholson: 1.	The unemployment insurance commission

April 20. 1966
Questions
advises that it has no immediate plans to open one or more permanent offices in the Northwest Territories as the requirements for service could not be justified at this time.
2.	(a) and (b) This information is not available, (c) The district of Franklin is serviced by the Ottawa local office. The district of Keewatin is serviced by the Winnipeg local office. The district of Mackenzie is serviced by the Edmonton local office.
REVISION OF UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE ACT Question No. 1,236


Mr. Ballard:: 1.	Does the government intend to implement the recommendations of the Gill report on the Unemployment Insurance Act?
2.	Does the government intend to submit to parliament a bill revising the structure of the Unemployment Insurance Act and, if so, when?


John Robert (Jack) Nicholson: 1. Careful consideration has been and is being given to the Gill commission's recommendations and the results of such consideration will be reflected in the proposed legislation on unemployment insurance.
2. The Speech from the Throne contains the assurance that the government intends to proceed with legislation amending or bringing up to date the Unemployment Insurance Act.


MONCTON, N.B.-OPENING OF AIR TERMINAL
Mr. Coates: 1.	On what date will the new air terminal, at present under construction at Moncton, New Brunswick, be opened for use by the travelling public?
2.	Has a date been set for the official opening of the new air terminal and, if so, what is that date?


James Allen (Jim) Byrne: 1. It is expected that the new terminal building at Moncton will be opened to the travelling public in July, 1966; but the exact date has not been determined.
2. The official opening date will not be determined until after the date has been established when the building will be opened to the public.


VIEILLES FORGES SAINT-MAURICE HISTORICAL SITE
Mr. Mongrain: 1. Does the government intend to contribute to the restoration of the historical site known as Vieilles Forges Saint-Maurice in Trois-Rivieres?
(Mr. Nicholson.]
2. If so (a) what measures will the government take (b) has work on this project now begun and, if not, for what reason?


Arthur Laing: 1. This
historical site is owned by the province of Quebec; the federal government has not been asked by the provincial government to make any contribution in this matter.
2. N/A.


REDUCTIONS IN HEALTH DEPARTMENT GRANTS
Mr. Orlikow: 1.	During the last fiscal year, were any projects not approved, or reduced in amount, because the Department of National Health and Welfare did not have funds allocated to assist the provinces with an orderly development of their mental health programs and, if so, how many?
2.	During the last fiscal year, were any hospital construction projects refused, or reduced in amount, because the Department of National Health and Welfare did not have funds allocated to assist the provinces with an orderly development of hospital facilities and, if so, how many?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: 1. No. The provinces submitted projects for the development of their mental health programs within the amounts of allocation for the year 1965-66.
2. No. All projects submitted by the provinces for federal assistance on behalf of hospital construction have been approved under the terms of the hospital construction grant.


SOCIAL WELFARE TRAINING
Mr. Orlikow: Has any money been allocated under the welfare training grants to help pay for the education of people desiring to improve their qualifications in the field of social work and, if so (a) how much
(b)	how many people are now at recognized professional schools under the provisions of these grants (c) what are the amounts of the bursaries provided (d) has any money been allocated for research projects in the field of social service (e) have any plans been developed for research into appropriate use of sub-professional staff in the field of social welfare?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: Yes. (a) $280,265 was approved for the fiscal year 1965-66 to assist persons taking full time graduate training at schools of social work, (b) 223 persons.
(c)	The bursary, training grants scholarship and fellowship provisions are used to assist persons taking social work training. Costs of bursaries and training grants are shared with
April 20, 1966

the provinces. Scholarships and fellowships are a 100 per cent federal responsibility.
The amount of a bursary is determined by the provincial welfare authorities. The federal government shares up to a maximum of $1,500 for a calendar year, plus $500 for dependants. The provincial welfare authorities also determine the amount of training grants with the federal share not to exceed $4,000 for a calendar year, plus $500 for dependants. These grants are reduced proportionately for periods less than one year. Necessary travel costs are also paid.
Scholarships and fellowships are awarded by the Minister of National Health and Welfare. The maximum amount of a scholarship is $2,000 for a calendar year, plus $500 for dependants. The maximum amount of a fellowship is $4,000 for a calendar year, plus $500 for dependants. These awards are reduced proportionately for periods less than one year. Necessary travel costs are also paid.
(d)	Yes. In 1965-66 research projects totalling $133,472 were approved, (e) Yes, through the technical and vocational training agreements of the Department of Labour and the welfare grants program of the Department of National Health and Welfare, provincial departments received assistance in 1965-66 to undertake programs of training for sub-professional personnel, and these programs will be evaluated in terms of their effectiveness in producing competent personnel for the welfare field.


SALES TAX ON DRUGS
Mr. Howe (Hamilton: South):
Has the government received representations from the Canadian Pharmaceutical Association regarding the removal of the 11 per cent sales tax on drugs and, if so, what has been its reply?
Answer: Yes. The budget speech, as reported on page 3387 of Hansard for March 29, 1966, reads as follows:
I renew the undertaking given last year by my predecessor, the hon. member for Davenport (Mr. Gordon, that if the considerations of the special committee of the house on food and drugs lead it to recommend that drugs should be exempt from sales tax as part of a comprehensive and effective program to reduce the prices of drugs, then the government would be prepared to recommend such action by means of a special statute covering all the measures required to give effect to such a program.
Questions


WHARF FACILITIES. DALHOUSIE, N.B.
Mr. MacEwan: 1.	Does the government intend to construct a wharf and docking facilities at Dalhousie, New Brunswick, during the present fiscal year?
2.	If so, what will be the size of the facilities and the estimated cost of same?
3.	Will these facilities be operated by the government, or by private interests?
4.	If by private interests, what is the name of the person or company who will operate same?


George James McIlraith: 1. No.
2.	Not applicable.
3.	Not applicable.
4.	Not applicable.


MULTIFORM EXUDATIVE ERYTHEMA
Mr. Isabelle: 1.	Has the food and drug directorate of the Department of National Health and Welfare received recent complaints about several cases of multiform exudative erythema?
2.	Has the directorate found that the drugs sulfa-dimethoxine and sulphamethoxyphyridazine, when taken alone or with some other product, are in any way connected with these cases and, if so (a) has the directorate alerted the medical profession in this regard (b) has the directorate warned the manufacturers of these drugs and what was the nature of the warning?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: 1. Yes.
2. Yes. (a) Yes. The Department of National Health and Welfare on February 4, 1966, informed all doctors in Canada that the Food and Drug Directorate had received published information that Stevens-Johnson syndrome (erythema multiforme exudativum) had been associated with the use of lojig-acting sul-phonamides as well as other drugs, (b) The manufacturers of long-acting sulphonamides have been informed that their labels must carry suitable warning statements such as:
(1)	Stevens-Johnson syndrome has been associated with the use of long-acting sulphonamides as well as some other drugs; (2) the dosage recommended should not be exceeded, and (3) the patient must be closely observed, and should any adverse reaction develop, the drug should be discontinued immediately.


ALEX STORM, NORTHERN AFFAIRS EMPLOYEE
Mr. McCleave: 1.	Was Alex Storm, an employee of the Department of Northern Affairs and National Resources at

April 20, 1966
Questions
Louisbourg, Nova Scotia, at any time within the last five years sent at Departmental expense to Paris, France and, if so, for what purpose?
2.	Was equipment of the department, or information in its possession, used by Mr. Storm to carry out a successful search for treasure trove near Louisbourg?


Arthur Laing: 1. No.
2. No.


NATIONAL PARKS POLICY STATEMENT
Mr. Horner (Jasper-Edson): Did the Prime Minister make a statement in Calgary in October, 1965, in regard to National Parks policy and, if so, what was that statement?


Right Hon. L. B. Pearson (Prime Minister):: Yes. Such a statement was included in my speech at the Palliser hotel in Calgary on October 20, 1965, during the election campaign. Following is an extract from the transcript of what I said:
There is another matter worrying you out here, and I understand you are worried, and that is that we are interfering in the administration of public parks in a way which will violate the rights of certain people who have vested interest in those parks. I understand this worry and anxiety and I have written one of our candidates who is particularly concerned with this, and I would like to read what wrote him, and this is a week or so ago.
I said: "I want to dispel this anxiety. There will be full opportunity for park residents and others concerned to make their views known before any final decision is taken by government". And I repeat that. I am glad to give that pledge. "In many cases" I said, "there are difficulties in reconciling the long term interests of Canadians generally"-and we have a responsibility in the federal government for the interests of Canadians generally and their interests in public parks-"the difficulty of reconciling that with the legitimate rights of individuals who have acquired very specific interests, such as leaseholds in the parks. It is not easy to solve such problems to the satisfaction of all concerned but every effort will be made to do this, and to this end the government will give careful consideration to the views of all those who are concerned, before deciding what further action it should take in the light of the provisions laid down by parliament in the National Parks Act".
I hope this commitment on my part will remove some of the understandable anxiety that is felt.


FEDERAL MEDICAL INSURANCE PLAN
Mr. Thompson: Under the medical insurance plan which covers federal government personnel, what is the premium for each of the following groups (a) R.C.M.P. (b) armed forces (c) postal employees (d) civil servants generally?


Mitchell William Sharp: (a)	and (b)	Member
Main plan
(1)	Member with one dependant $2.05
(2)	Member with more than
one dependant	3.07
Optional plan in respect of persons insured under The Saskatchewan Medical Care Insurance Act, 1961
(1)	Member with one dependant $ .37
(2)	Member with more than
one dependant	.56
(c) and(d)	Employee
Main plan
(1)	Single employee	$1.35
(2)	Employee with one dependant 3.65
(3)	Employee with more than
one dependant	4.35
Optional plan in respect of persons insured under The Saskatchewan Medical Care Insurance Act, 1961
(1)	Single employee	$ .26
(2)	Employee with one dependant
(a)	both resident in Saskatchewan	.63
(b)	employee only resident in
Saskatchewan	2.31
(c)	dependant only resident in
Saskatchewan	1.72
(3)	Employee with more than one dependant
(a)	all resident in Saskatchewan	.82
(b)	employee only resident in
Saskatchewan	3.33
(c)	one dependant only not resident in Saskatchewan	1.91
(d)	employee only not resident
in Saskatchewan	1.91


EASTERN FEED GRAIN AGENCY
Mr. Latulippe: Does the government intend to comply with the request of the Farmers' Union to establish an eastern feed grain agency and, if so, when will the decision be made known?


Maurice Sauvé: The notice of motion introducing the livestock feed assistance act providing for the creation of a Canadian livestock feed board has appeared in Votes and Proceedings No. 56 of the House of Commons of Canada, April 5, 1966.
April 20, 1966


SAFETY IN CONSTRUCTION FIELD
Mr. Latulippe: 1.	Has the government received a request from the president of the Confederation of National Trades Unions (CNTU) for an inquiry on safety in the construction field?
2.	Has the federal Department of Labour specific regulations on this subject and, if so, what are they?


Bryce Stuart Mackasey: 1. No such request has been received in the Department of Labour.
2. No.


CREDIT FOR FARMERS
Mr. Latulippe: Does the government intend to institute interest-free credit or credit at cost for farmers?


Hon. J. J. Greene (Minister of Agriculture):: Credit is now provided to farmers through the Farm Credit Corporation at or below cost. If there should be any change in this policy, it will be announced.


NATIONAL DEFENCE-VISITS BY MINISTER TO N.S. BASES
Mr. McCleave: Have major bases in Nova Scotia been visited by the Minister of National Defence and/or the Associate Minister of National Defence and, if so (a) what bases (b) on what dates?


Hon. Paul Hellyer (Minister of National Defence):: 1. The Associate Minister of National Defence has not yet visited any major bases in Nova Scotia. Those visited by the Minister of National Defence are listed below: HMC Dockyard, Halifax, January 22 and 23, 1964; HMCS Stadacona, January 22 and 23, 1964; HMCS Shearwater, January 22 and 23, 1964; HMCS Cornwallis, January 23, 1964; RCAF Station Greenwood, January 24, 1964.


DEFERMENT APPLICATIONS UNDER LABOUR CODE
Mr. Maclnnis (Cape: Breton South):
Up to March 31, 1966, were any applications received by the Minister of Labour under section 52 (1) for the deferment of the operation of section 11 of the Canada labour code and, if so (a) how many (b) how many orders, if any, granting such deferment were granted by the minister (c) what were the names of those who made application (d) what were the names of those to whom the orders were granted?
Questions


Bryce Stuart Mackasey: Yes (a) 242
covering 279 establishments; (b) 29; (c) A list of these applications can be found in part I of the Canada Gazettes of August 28 at page 2,831, November 6 at page 3,623 and December 11, 1965, at page 4,071; (d) One general order respecting feed mills, feed warehouses and seed cleaning mills was published in the Canada Gazette part II of February 23, 1966; In addition orders were granted to the following: CJPM-TV Inc., CHSA-TV Ltd., CKRT-TV Ltee., CKTR (1958) Ltee, The Galt Broadcasting Company Ltd., Goodwill Broadcasters of Quebec Ltd., Radio Temiscamingue Inc., Sask-Alta Broadcasters Ltd., Abitibi Provincial Inc., Atomic Transfer Ltd., Central Truck Lines Ltd., Easson's Ltd., Gates and Watson Ltd., Husband Transport Ltd., J. Kearns Transport Ltd., The Patricia Transportation Co. Ltd. Pontiac Bus Lines Ltd., Nu-Way Express Ltd., Reimer Express Lines Ltd., Renfrew County Bus Lines Ltd., Rimou-ski Transport Ltee., Sarlon Coach Lines Ltd., Scott Interprovincial Truck Lines Ltd., S M T (Eastern) Ltd., Soo-Security Motorways Ltd Star Delivery (Ottawa-Hull) Ltd., Western Canada Whaling Co. Ltd., Northern Telephone Ltd.


DEFERMENT ORDERS UNDER LABOUR CODE
Mr. Maclnnis (Cape: Breton South):
1.	How many orders of deferment or suspension of part 1 of the Canada labour code have been issued by the Minister of Labour under the provisions of section 51 of the Canada labour code up to March 31, 1966?
2.	What are the names of the applicants to whom such orders apply, and what is the respective period of deferment or suspension in each case?


Bryce Stuart Mackasey: 1. 7.
2. One general order respecting flour mills, feed mills, feed warehouses and seed cleaning mills was published in the Canada Gazette, Part II of February 23, 1966. This order defers the operation of part I of the Canada Labour (Standards) Code for a period of eighteen months from the 1st day of February, 1966. In addition, orders were granted deferring the operation of Part I to the following for the periods hereinafter set out: Canadian National Railways (longshoremen employed at ferry terminal, North Sydney, N.S.) 18 months from October 1, 1965. CKRT-TV Ltee., to December 31, 1966; Goodwill Broadcasters

April 20, 1966
Questions
of Quebec Ltd., to September 30, 1966. Mystery Lake Broadcasting Ltd., to December 31, 1966. Sask-Alta Broadcasters Ltd., to December 31, 1966. CKSA-TV Ltd., to December 31, 1966.


APPLICATIONS UNDER SECTION 9(1) OF LABOUR CODE
Mr. Maclnnis (Cape: Breton South):
As of March 31, 1966, were any applications received by the Minister of Labour under section 9 (1) of the Canada labour code and, if so (a) how many (b) what were the names of the applicants
(c)	with respect to such applications, how many permits were issued (d) what are the names of the applicants to whom such permits were issued?


Bryce Stuart Mackasey: Yes. (a) Thirteen (b) Atomic Energy of Canada Limited, Pan American World Airways, Inc., Saskatchewan Wheat Pool, Stanrock Uranium Mines Limited, The St. Lawrence Seaway Authority, The Bell Telephone Company of Canada (c) Eleven (d) Atomic Energy of Canada Limited, Pan American World Airways, Inc., Saskatchewan Wheat Pool, Stanrock Uranium Mines Limited, The St. Lawrence Seaway Authority.


INQUIRIES UNDER LABOUR CODE
Mr. Maclnnis (Cape: Breton South):
Were any inquiries initiated under the provisions of section 51, subsection 2 of the Canada labour code up to March 31, 1966 and, if so (a) how many (b) in how many such cases has the governor general in council deferred or suspended the operation of part 1 of the Canada labour code (c) what are the respective federal works, undertakings or businesses and classes of employees therein, with respect to which such orders in council have been made?


Bryce Stuart Mackasey: No inquiries were initiated under the provisions of subsection 2 of section 51 of the Canada Labour (Standards) Code up to March 31, 1966.


APPOINTMENT OF LIEUTENANT GOVERNORS
Mr. Bell (Carleton): 1.	What is the accepted technique whereby the Governor General is advised in respect of the appointment of Lieutenant Governors and/or provincial administrators?
2.	How long has this technique been in use?
3.	Has any other technique been used?
4.	H so, what techniques and on what specific occasions?
[Mr. Mackasey.)
5.	Has any Lieutenant Governor ever been appointed pursuant to an instrument of advice?
6.	If so, what Lieutenant Governors, and when were they appointed?


Lester Bowles Pearson: 1. Minute of council.
2.	Since July 1, 1867.
3.	No.
4.	See answer to part 3.
5.	No.
6.	See answer to part 5.


SECOND NEW ENGLAND-NOVA SCOTIA FERRY SERVICE
Mr. Bower: 1.	Has the Department of Transport received the Margeson report on a second New England-Nova Scotia ferry service?
2.	If so, what action is being taken to provide a more comprehensive service?
3.	When is it estimated that this service can be put into effect?


James Allen (Jim) Byrne: 1. No.
2 and 3. Not applicable.


DISCREPANCY IN RE-ENLISTMENT BONUSES
Mr. Smith: Is the government giving consideration to a plan permitting airmen and sailors to re-enlist at the end of the third year of their first five year enlistment period so that the apparent discrepancy between soldiers on one hand, and airmen and sailors on the other hand, in the payment of reenlistment bonuses may be removed?


Léo Alphonse Joseph Cadieux: Effective 1 May, 1966, the enlistment and re-engagement period for soldiers, other than apprentices and junior bandsmen, will be five years. The five year period will then be standard throughout the Canadian armed forces.



QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS


Mr. Ormiston: 1.	What are the names of all advertising agencies used by the federal government and crown corporations in the fiscal year 1962-1963?
2.	What remuneration did each advertising agency receive during the fiscal year 1962-1963 and from what parliamentary votes were funds made available?
April 20. 1966

3.	What are the names of all advertising agencies used by the federal government and crown corporations since April 22, 1963?
4.	What has been the total remuneration received by each of the advertising agencies used by the federal government and crown corporations from April 22, 1963 to date, and from what parliamentary votes were these funds made available?
Return tabled.


BILINGUAL NAMES OF GOVERNMENT COMPANIES
Mr. Caouelle: 1.	What are the government companies or organizations which have no bilingual names as yet?
2.	What are those which have received a bilingual name during the last five years?
3.	Does the government intend to translate into French the names of the corporations which still have only an English name?
4.	Can an act of parliament compel the companies incorporated by letters patent to adopt a bilingual name?
Return tabled.


RECOMMENDATIONS OF FAUTEUX COMMISSION
Mr. Groos: Of the Fauteux commission recommendations numbered 1 to 44 which recommendations have been implemented and which have not been
implemented?
Return tabled.


RESEARCH INTO WATER AND AIR POLLUTION
Mr. Barnett: 1.	What departments or agencies of the federal government are conducting research into (a) water pollution control (b) air pollution control?
2.	What amounts for each of the last five fiscal years (including an estimate for the current fiscal year) have been spent by each of these departments or agencies in each of these fields of research?
3.	What amounts in each of these fiscal years for these fields of research have been paid by the federal government to bodies other than departments or agencies of the federal government?
4.	What are the names of such bodies and, of such amounts (a) what amounts are included in the figures requested above (b) what amounts are in addition to the figures requested above?
Return tabled.


STUDIES OF WATER POLLUTION
Mr. Fulton: 1.	How many branches or agencies of the federal government, including crown companies, are engaged in the study and/or control of the pollution, use, or disposition of the waters of Canada, with 23033-2571
Orders jor Returns
respect to fresh water, rivers and lakes as distinguished from the oceans and seas?
2.	What is the name or description of each such branch or agency, to what department or ministry does it report, and under what statutory or other authority does it operate?
3.	What is the same information as requested in parts 1 and 2 with respect to the oceans and seas?
4.	Is there a cabinet committee on water use policy and, if so, when was it constituted?
Return tabled.


NATIONAL CAPITAL GREEN BELT
Mr. Bell (Carleton): 1.	What is the total acreage, as now defined, of the green belt in the national capital region?
2.	Of this total acreage, how many acres have been
(a)	acquired and the former owners paid in full
(b)	acquired but settlement of price still under negotiation or other proceedings, except court proceedings (c) acquired but settlement of price still under consideration in court proceedings?
3.	What is the total number of individual properties involved under each of the headings (a), (b) and (c) of part 2?
4.	Are there any properties within the now defined limits of the green belt which have not been acquired by purchase or expropriation?
5.	If so, where are these properties located and who is the owner in each case?
6.	What properties within the green belt have been resold, specifying location of each and to whom sold, the acreage sold, and price of each sale?
7.	What properties within the green belt have been leased for terms beyond five years, specifying location of each such demised property, lessee, acreage demised and terms of lease?
8.	What is the total amount expended to date in the acquiral of the green belt?
9.	What is the estimate of the remaining cost of acquiring the green belt?
Return tabled.


ALLOCATION OF SITES, NATIONAL CAPITAL GREEN BELT
Mr. Bell (Carleton): 1.	Referring to part I of the sixty-fifth annual report of the National Capital Commission at page 12, what sites in the greenbelt, giving description in detail, have now been allocated for (a) recreational purposes (b) government purposes (c) reforestation purposes (d) conservation purposes?
2.	What areas have been set aside for use by the city of Ottawa for garbage collection?
3.	What area has been marked for development by the township of Nepean (a) as a community centre (b) as a municipal forest park?
4.	With whom did the National Capital Commission consult before making these allocations setting aside, or marking for development?
Return tabled.

April 20, 1366
Orders for Returns


PERMITS FOR PESTICIDE USE
Mr. Dinsdale: 1.	Are permits required for the use of certain pesticides on Canadian farms?
2.	What pesticides require such permits?
3.	Who issues the permits?
4.	What research is underway in Canada with respect to the use of pesticides?
5.	Are pilots engaged in crop dusting required to hold a chemical rating?
Return tabled.


ONTARIO-LOANS AND GRANTS FOR SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION
Mr. Sianbury: 1.	What amounts were paid by the federal government in each of the years 1960-65 inclusive toward construction and equipment of schools in (a) the townships of Scarborough, North York and Markham respectively (b) the town of Lea-side (c) the village of Markham?
2.	What amounts were so paid in each of those years toward construction, equipment and operation of universities in each of those municipalities?
3.	How much of each such amount was paid by way of (a) loan and (b) grant?
4.	What were the general terms of any such loans?
Return tabled.


N.C.C. EXPENDITURES, PONTIAC COUNTY, QUE.
Mr. Lefebvre: 1.	What federal funds were expended by the National Capital Commission in the county of Pontiac, P.Q., since its inception under its present name for each year to date?
2.	What major projects did the commission sponsor in 1964 and 1965?
3.	What is its major project for 1966 in Pontiac and what sum has been allocated for this project?
4.	How many employees will be needed by the N.C.C in Pontiac during 1966?
5.	How are such employees hired?
6.	What rate per hour is paid by the N.C.C. for labourers and tradesmen?
7.	What are the boundaries of the N.C.C. in the county of Pontiac?
Return tabled.


RATING PERCENTAGE FOR BILINGUALISM
Mr. Bell (Carleton): 1. Has the civil service commission established a procedure whereby up to 10% of the total selection rating score is being accorded to bilingual proficiency in certain areas?

2.	If so (a) when was this procedure established (b) pursuant to what authority (c) in what areas
(d)	does the procedure have the approval of Her Majesty's ministers?
3.	Have instructions of a similar nature been given to commission officers or other public servants performing selection duties under delegated authority of the commission?
4.	If so, what in detail is the nature of the instructions?
5.	Were the staff organizations consulted before the procedure was established?
6.	If so, when, under what circumstances, and with what result?
7.	If not, for what reason?
8.	Upon what basis of evaluation was the percentage of 10 chosen rather than another percentage?
9.	Since the establishment of the procedure, what competitions have been held pursuant to the procedure, and what was the competition number in each case?
10.	In each of these competitions, how many of the applicants (a) were bilingual (b) spoke one language only?
11.	Who was the successful candidate in each competition?
Return tabled.


CONSTRUCTION OF FEDERAL BUILDINGS, OTTAWA-HULL
Mr. Choqueite: 1.	How many federal buildings have been built in the Ottawa-Hull region since 1955?
2.	What was the estimated cost?
3.	What was the actual cost?
Return tabled.


CENTENNIAL PROJECTS, MARITIME PROVINCES
Mr. Dube: What centennial projects in (a) New Brunswick (b) Nova Scotia, and (c) Prince Edward Island, have been approved by the centennial administration?
Return tabled.


WINTER WORKS, MONTMAGNY-L'ISLET
Mr. Berger: 1.	In the constituency of Montmagny-L'Islet, what municipalities were assisted by the winter works program during 1965-66?
2.	What was the nature of the works performed?
3.	What amount was spent for each program?
Return tabled.


WINTER WORKS, GATINEAU COUNTY, QUE.
Mr. Isabelle: Have any municipalities in the county of Gatineau been assisted under the winter works program
April 20, 1966

for 1965-66 and, if so (a) which ones (b) what was the nature of each project (c) what amount of money was spent on each project? (d) what amount did the federal government contribute for each project?
Return tabled.



MOTIONS FOR PAPERS

Mr. Bechard:: Mr. Speaker, notice of motion for production of papers No. 116 is accepted by the government.
I ask that the remaining notices of motions be allowed to stand.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.
[Stage Direction]
BILINGUALISM IN CIVIL SERVICE Motion No. 116-Mr. Loney:
That an order of the house do issue for a copy of all correspondence and telegrams received by the Prime Minister and the Minister of Public Works and replies thereto on the subject of bilingualism in the civil service since the 1st of January, 1966.
Motion agreed to.


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Robert Muir (Cape Breton North and Victoria):: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Industry. May I ask the minister whether he is aware of the statement in today's press by Mr. J. E. Chubb, president of Dosco Industries Limited, that the Wabana ore mine in Newfoundland will cease operations on June 30. If so, what steps have been taken by the minister's department or what steps will be taken by the government to try to retain this industry? Finally, Mr. Speaker, have any consultations been held between the government and the corporation concerned on this very serious matter?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: Mr. Speaker, I am aware of the prospective closing of the mine at Bell Island recently announced by Mr. Chubb. I may say that for some time the government, and by that I mean principally the Department of Industry, has been assisting in the search for techniques to beneficiate the Bell Island ore in such a way that it can be marketed. Unfortunately the decline over the last nine months in world prices for iron ore has made this further pursuit impracticable, and has made economically necessary the closing of the mine at Bell Island.
Inquiries of the Ministry
We have been in consultation with the government of Newfoundland. At the present moment there is a meeting going on with representatives of various departments of the federal government with a view to providing urgently the best possible solution to the problems of the inhabitants of Bell Island.


Robert Muir: May I direct a supplementary question to the future minister of manpower. What steps will be taken by his department and by the government to assist the 850 employees who will be left unemployed in this situation, which is another in the series of economic blows to the Atlantic provinces?


Hon. Jean Marchand (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration):: Mr. Speaker, we shall immediately advise our national employment service in Newfoundland, and we shall try to do all we can to help these workers.


Mr. T. C. Douglas (Burnaby-Coquitlam):: supplementary question to the Minister of Industry. May I ask the minister whether the closing of the mine in Bell Island is due to the grade of the ore. The general demand for iron ore has not lessened materially. Has this closing to do with the grade of the iron ore? If so, is any research being done to see whether this particular grade of ore can be used?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: It is because of the nature of the ore, and particularly its high content of sulphur. Research directed toward beneficiat-ing this ore, which I have mentioned, has been carried out. It has not, however, been possible, because of the decline generally in the price of iron ore throughout the world to get the cost of removing the sulphur content down to an economically acceptable level.


Mr. Heath Macquarrie (Queens):: Could I ask the Minister of Labour what representations he has received from the premier of Newfoundland in reference to this most unfortunate and deplorable situation, and what suggestions he is making with respect to federal initiative in providing economic assistance to this area whose economic prospects have now been rendered so bleak?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: I have discussed this matter with my colleague in the cabinet from Newfoundland and with other ministers. We have given the matter considerable thought. When there is anything concrete to be announced, an announcement will be made.
April 20, 1966

Inquiries of the Ministry FINANCE



EFFECT OF POSSIBLE U.S. TAX ON TOURISTS

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. Marcel Lambert (Edmonton West):: question to the Acting Prime Minister or to the Minister of Finance, as the case may be. Has the minister or the government been advised of the rumour which is circulating in the United States press and which has now appeared in the Canadian press, to the effect that the United States government may be considering a tax on United States tourists going abroad; and has the government considered the possible effect this might have on Expo '67? Would the minister tell us, too, what representations may have been made to the United States government in the light of these circumstances?


Mitchell William Sharp: I should like to assure the hon. gentleman and the house that there is the closest possible consultation between Canada and the United States on all aspects of the balance of payments problems of our two countries. I can tell the hon. member that this particular matter which is mentioned in a newspaper article this morning has not been raised by the United States in its discussions with us.


Mr. Lamberi:: Has the minister become aware of this report from sources other than the press? Is this subject upon which there has been any informal discussion? Has it been brought to the hon. gentleman's attention as a possible means of solving certain balance of payments problems?


Mitchell William Sharp: This idea of a tax on tourists is not new; it was put up as a trial balloon some time ago. But I wish to assure the hon. gentleman that it has not been raised between the United States administration and ourselves.


Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert: One final question. What would be the attitude of the government if such a step-


Mr. Speaker:: Order. The question is hypothetical.



CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
David Orlikow: wish to ask the Secretary of State whether in

view of the proposed strike of C.B.C. producers she would suggest to the president of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation that he agree to arbitration of the dispute between the corporation and its employees in order to arrive at an equitable settlement and avoid what could be a crippling strike.


Julia Verlyn (Judy) LaMarsh: In the first place, I hope there will not be any strike, and that the differences between management and some of the employees will be resolved within the administration. I was informed that the statement put out by the producers was conveyed to the president of the board of the C.B.C. at the meeting in Halifax this week, but due to some error in transmission the telegram was not received there until about one o'clock today. Up to the time I entered this chamber I had heard nothing of the response made by the board.
Yesterday when the leader of the New Democratic party raised the question of arbitration the vice president of the corporation was present in the official gallery of this chamber, and I understand he transmitted the essence of the question to the president. I would hope that notwithstanding the heat engendered on all sides the management will be able to resolve this matter, as in the past, without any disruption of viewing or programming in any way.


David Orlikow: Should it become obvious that this matter will not be resolved without a strike, is it the minister's intention to leave this question to the corporation, or will she take some active part in giving a lead to the corporation so as to avoid what might be a serious situation?


Julia Verlyn (Judy) LaMarsh: I suppose the reason for the rule about not answering speculative questions is that it is so very difficult to give an adequate answer.


Mr. Real Caouette (Villeneuve):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct a supplementary question to the Secretary of State.
Should the C.B.C. be faced with a strike following the dismissal of two employees from that Corporation, would not the minister feel that such a strike would be welcome?


Mr. Speaker:: Order. The hon. member is basing his question on a hypothetical situation, and therefore it cannot be accepted.
April 20, 1966	COMMONS


David Réal Caouette: Mr. Speaker, my question will be very simple. Would not the minister believe that, in the present circumstances, in the case of the C.B.C., it would be time to accept the strike in order to clean up the C.B.C.?


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. The hon. member for Red Deer.



LABOUR RELATIONS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. R. N. Thompson (Red Deer):: Mr. Speaker, I believe my question is of great national urgency, and I direct it to the Minister of Labour. In view of the 13 week old teamsters strike, in view of the breakdown in talks with the seaway workers, and in view of the threatened rail strike, I would ask the minister whether he has made a reply to or considered the appeal that was made to him this morning by the teamsters union members in regard to the critical situation concerning that strike, an appeal for intervention on the part of the federal government.


John Robert (Jack) Nicholson: Mr. Speaker, I hesitate to say it because my hon. friend is usually so accurate in his statements, but no such representations were made to me today, nor have I heard of any today.


Robert Norman Thompson: Mr. Speaker, supplementary to my original question to the Minister of Labour, even though he may not have received this appeal, which I understand was made to both the provincial and federal governments, could the minister inform us whether his department is taking any initiative to bring this transport situation under control or arbitration?


John Robert (Jack) Nicholson: A board of arbitration
already has been set up. It has made its recommendation in this particular case. This board was sponsored jointly by the federal and provincial governments. The strike resulted from the fact that the report of the board of conciliation was not accepted by the union. The federal government has been working with the provincial government in respect of negotiations concerning the truckers' strike. We had hoped the strike would be settled over the Easter week end. Difficulties,
DEBATES	4067
Inquiries of the Ministry however, have intervened, and I am hopeful negotiations will be resumed at a relatively early date. I cannot go beyond that today.
Eight of the 12 members of the bargaining team for the unions approved of the terms of a settlement and said they would recommend it to the membership. When the vote came the union truck drivers in eastern Ontario voted to accept the settlement. However, the majority of the truck drivers in Ontario voted against it. Negotiations have not been resumed yet, but I am hopeful they will be at an early date.



HOUSING


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Righi Hon. J. G. Diefenbaker (Leader of the Opposition):: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Labour and has to do with a number of representations I have received regarding N.H.A. builder loans not being available. One of the representations from Ottawa is to the effect that the situation is critical. One company has laid off 58 men, and if money is not available shortly another 62 men must go. This is so across the country, as to the seriousness of the situation regarding moneys not being available for N.H.A. housing. What has the minister to say in this regard?


John Robert (Jack) Nicholson: Mr. Speaker, through C.M.H.C. the government is making moneys available comparable in amount to what was made available last year. The problem arises out of the fact that notwithstanding an increase from 6-1 per cent to 6J per cent in the rate at which C.M.H.C. can guarantee loans by approved lenders, and the fact that in the six or eight weeks following the increase such loans increased, private investors now seem to find other investments much more attractive. It is not that the government is not putting up the same amount of money. One or two approved lenders are putting up more, but the great majority are not, and the matter is under study in the light of the representations that have been made.


John George Diefenbaker: I thank the minister for a very full explanation and ask him what is the government doing to meet the situation. I have mentioned this Ottawa case. Of course I cannot go into detail on orders of the day, but men are being laid off because of the
April 20. 1966

Inquiries of the Ministry shortage of mortgage moneys. What is the government's plan? What is it canvassing? What ideas has it to meet a situation that is apparently nation wide and serious?


John Robert (Jack) Nicholson: The problem seemingly has become nation wide within the last few weeks due to the fact that builders have not been able to get funds from the private sources from which they were receiving them for a number of years. The situation to which the right hon. gentleman has referred is becoming more acute and the matter is receiving active consideration at the present time.


Mr. G. L. Chatterion (Esquimalt-Saanich):: As a supplementary question, can the minister give an assurance that if the situation becomes even worse, as is certainly anticipated in British Columbia, more direct loan money will be made available by the government?


John Robert (Jack) Nicholson: That is a question of government policy which will have to be announced in due course. It depends in part on whether the winter works housing incentive program will be extended for another year.


David Réal Caouette: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct a supplementary question to the Minister of Labour.
Is the Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation now able, under the present legislation, to get funds from the Bank of Canada to help finance the construction of houses or the construction-


Mr. Speaker:: Order. That is an argument rather than a real question.


David Réal Caouette: On a point of order. Is it not in order to ask the minister if the Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation has the right to get or borrow funds from the Bank of Canada to build houses or buildings?


Mr. Speaker:: That question is out of order. The hon. member is asking for the explanation of a point of law, a legal opinion. That is why it cannot be accepted.


David Réal Caouette: I am not mentioning a point of law. I am simply asking if the Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation has the right-


Mr. Speaker:: Order. That question is out of order.


[English1



FEDERAL SUPPORT FOR APPLICATION FOR OLYMPIC GAMES

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Eldon M. Woolliams (Bow River):: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask a question of the Minister of National Health and Welfare. I directed a notice to the Prime Minister's office, and I understand it has been passed on to the Minister of National Health and Welfare. My question is in the field of international affairs, but it does affect the minister's department.
Would the minister advise the house what support, personnel, monetary and otherwise, his department has assured to the Canadian Olympic committee to assist them in their successful bid before the international committee in Rome for the 1972 winter games to be held in Banff, Alberta, in view of the fact that such a successful bid will broaden Canada's image as a trading nation and as a nation known for its winter sports resources.


Allan Joseph MacEachen: Mr. Speaker, the government of Canada is extending every possible support to the application for these games.


Eldon Mattison Woolliams: How much?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: At the moment I cannot give my hon. friend the exact figure, but at present I am discussing with members of the government the most effective way in which the views of the government of Canada on this matter can be presented to the meeting of the Olympic committee this week end and next week in Rome. Just as soon as a decision has been reached on the question I wil) be glad to communicate it to my hon. friend.


Eldon Mattison Woolliams: May I ask a supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Would the minister tell us what personnel from his department are going to assist the committee, or perhaps the minister for external affairs will tell us what personnel from the Department of External Affairs would be going over to assist the Canadian committee.


Mr. Speaker:: Order. I do not think it is a matter of national urgency to find out who the people would be on the delegation. I suggest the hon. member might be able to obtain that information in some other way.


Eldon Mattison Woolliams: Is the department sending personnel to support the committee?
April 20, 1966


Allan Joseph MacEachen: Mr. Speaker, the Canadian ambassador at Rome is being fully briefed at the present time with regard to the views of the Canadian government, so that at the appropriate time if necessary he may be able to present those views. In the meantime some consideration is being given to whether it might be possible for a member of the government to be present in Rome.


Eldon Mattison Woolliams: I would hope so.


Allan Joseph MacEachen: I have to consider whether it might be possible for me to go, and if I am able to make arrangements I will let my hon. friend know.



EXTERNAL AFFAIRS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
John George Diefenbaker: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct my question to the Acting Prime Minister, the Secretary of State for External Affairs. With regard to the apparent worsening of the situation in Rhodesia, will the government give assurance to the house that Canada will not resort to force without parliament being given the opportunity to give consideration thereto?
Second, in connection with the blockade and the embargo which is in effect, to what extent is the embargo successful? I ask this because I have before me an advertisement for corned beef, a product of Rhodesia, which apparently is coming into Canada because of the tremendous increase in food prices in this nation. Has the government made any representations in this connection, and is the embargo being enforced?


Hon. Paul  Marlin@Secretary of State for External Affairs: Mr. Speaker, the embargo is being enforced; the embargo is successful. I will look into the particular story-


John George Diefenbaker: Advertisement.


Mr. Martin (Essex East):: -to which the right hon. gentleman directs our attention, but I have no hesitation in saying the embargo is very successful.
With regard to the first part of the question, as is known the Security Council by a resolution of April 9, acting under chapter 7, has imposed a mandatory obligation on all member states of the United Nations with regard to a particular situation, namely the diverting of ships carrying oil destined for 23033-258
Inquiries of the Ministry consumption in Rhodesia. What other action may be taken by the United Nations is, of course, a matter which would depend on events.
The action thus far taken under chapter 7 seemingly is proving effective for the purpose intended. Under the National Defence Act practice there is an obligation that Canada will not send substantial numbers of troops outside the country without seeking the approval of parliament. If that kind of action were in contemplation, and I do not believe it is, the Canadian government would, of course, observe the practice of that act. The kind of force which is envisaged, however, I hope would not be of that order.


John George Diefenbaker: Mr. Speaker, I have another question. Then is it perfectly clear that there will be no Canadian troops sent regardless of any UN declaration, without parliament making the affirmative determination?


Paul Joseph James Martin: I do not wish to give the impression that the government has any reason to believe there is any likelihood of a request being made of Canada for the dispatch of troops in respect of this situation in Rhodesia. I do not believe that kind of situation is in contemplation. The kind of force which is envisaged under chapter 7 could be an extension of the economic sanctions in addition to oil as now provided for in the mandatory direction given by the security council.


Mr. Raymond Langlois (Meganlic):: Mr. Speaker, may I ask a supplementary question. In view of the situation which has come up, and since the house is faced with the possibility of sending troops, would the minister consider sending an all party delegation to that country to assess the situation there and also in Zambia?


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please.


Raymond Langlois: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I believe that this question could be put differently, and thus be acceptable to the minister. Would the minister consider favourably a recommendation from the external affairs committee to the effect that the committee should go there before an untenable situation develops?


Mr. Speaker:: That question is based on a hypothetical situation which is not under consideration at this time.
4070	COMMONS DEBATES	April 20. 1966
Inquiries of the Ministry
[Translation]	might the house expect an announcement in
INQUIRY FOR RETURN	this regard?
On the orders of the day:


Mr.   J.-A. Mongrain@Trois-Rivieres: Mr. Speaker, may I ask a question of the Secretary of State, or perhaps of her Parliamentary Secretary, to whom I gave notice of my question?
On February 2, the house issued an order for return concerning the correspondence exchanged between the provincial Department of Highways and the Corporation of the Trois-Rivieres Bridge. I would ask the minister or her parliamentary secretary when I can expect those papers which I have not heard about since then?


Hon. J. W. Pickersgill (Minister of Transport):: Mr. Speaker, since I think I am responsible for this return perhaps I might be allowed to say that I am trying to get the very voluminous documents ready as quickly as I can.


EXPO '67 REFUSAL OF PERMISSION TO RECORD R.C.M.P. BAND
[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. H. W. Herridge (Kootenay West):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to address two questions to the Minister of Labour, as a firm supporter of organized labour but also as a proud Canadian. My question arises out of the answer the minister gave with respect to the right of the R.C.M.P. band to record in Canada. My first question is, does the government agree with this decision of the international headquarters of the musicians union? My second question is, if not, would the minister consider discussing this matter with his opposite number in the United States in order to provide appropriate guide lines to meet this type of situation?


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. This question can be placed on the order paper.


CANADIAN CENTENIAL
[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. L. M. Brand (Saskatoon):: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Secretary of State. Has the centennial commission yet forwarded to the minister a satisfactory proposal for a centennial youth parliament; and if so, when


Julia Verlyn (Judy) LaMarsh: I had forwarded to me by the centennial commission Mr. Fair's report, which was not satisfactory to the centennial commission nor to myself. Since that time I have had a number of conversations with Commissioner Fisher and other interested people, and have asked for a memorandum from various individuals. During the last week or so I have been considering the possibility of inviting a group representing all parties in the house to meet with me to lay out some guide lines in this regard-


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Julia Verlyn (Judy) LaMarsh: -because I feel that a youth parliament is itself an extremely good idea, but the work that has been done so far is far too ephemeral; it does not give us any basis on which to proceed. It might be that if all parties have interested members I would ask the government house leader or the whip to consult with their opposite numbers and obtain the names of those interested so we might talk about the question with a view to having a youth parliament in 1967, not in 1977.


Mr. Forreslall:: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Several weeks ago I asked a similar question of the Secretary of State, and whether any additional proposals had been presented to her at that time. She told me there had been. Since proposals other than that of Mr. William Fair have been presented to the Secretary of State, I wonder whether she has considered them as well.


Julia Verlyn (Judy) LaMarsh: Yes, Mr. Speaker, there was one produced by the centennial commission, which I found not much more satisfactory. The real difficulty is what responsibility, if any, sitting members of this house ought to have in the selection of the personnel and agenda for such a parliament. This is why I feel it might be useful if representatives of all parties had an opportunity to discuss it.


NATURAL GAS
[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert: Mr. Speaker, yesterday I asked a question of the Prime Minister in the absence of the Minister of Trade and Commerce, but I think
April 20. 1966

my question should be directed to the Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys since I have now discovered that he is responsible for the National Energy Board.
What concerns me are the hearings before the United States federal power commission with regard to the transmission by a Canadian company of western Canadian gas for consumption in eastern Canada, but subject to United States federal power jurisdiction and contending American interests. Just what action is the Canadian government taking in this regard?


Hon. Jean-Luc Pepin (Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys):: Mr. Speaker, I was about to answer this question. The energy counsellor of the Canadian embassy in Washington is attending these hearings of the federal power commission in the United States and is keeping our officials in Ottawa informed of their progress. The status of the energy counsellor is that of observer, since it is not the normal practice of the government of Canada to intervene or to be formally represented in such regulatory proceedings in the United States.


Norman Platt Lambert: Is it the intention of the government of Canada to make any representations to the government of the United States with regard to this question of the transmission of Canadian gas for Canadian consumption?


Jean-Luc Pepin: Not to my knowledge, Mr. Speaker. A similar hearing, as the hon. member knows, took place in Canada before the National Energy Board, and a decision will be rendered on that hearing in the coming weeks.


Norman Platt Lambert: A further supplementary question-


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. The hon. member for Charlevoix (Mr. Asselin).


LABOUR CONDITIONS
[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. Martial Asselin (Charlevoix):: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Justice.
The Quebec government has decided to authorize Sunday work in Quebec pulp and paper mills. I would like to know whether the Quebec government consulted with the
The Budget-Mr. Basford federal authorities of the Department of Justice before arriving at its decision?


Mr. Speaker:: Order. I suggest to the hon.
member to put his question on the order paper.
LEnglish]


NORTHERN AFFAIRS
[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. J. R. Keays (Gaspe):: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources. Due to the fact that the minister has announced the construction of a replica of the Grande Hermine and that it will be berthed eventually at the Cartier-Champlain park, Quebec city will the minister now consider rescinding that decision because of the complications in getting it on site, and find it a haven at Gaspe, the birthplace of Canada?


Mr. Speaker:: Order, please. Hon. members will be interested in reading about the Grande Hermine on the order paper.


THE BUDGET
[Stage Direction]
The house resumed, from Tuesday, April 19, consideration of the motion of Hon. Mitchell Sharp (Minister of Finance) that Mr. Speaker do now leave the chair for the house to go into committee of ways and means, and the amendment thereto of Mr. Monteith.
Mr. Ron Basford (Vancouver-Burrard):: Mr. Speaker, may I first congratulate the Minister of Finance on his first budget speech, both as to its presentation and content. The amendment before us is obviously an attempt, a very hard attempt, to find something that is wrong with something that is very good and a budget that is very much required for the very tricky economic conditions that we have in Canada today. I want to devote the whole of my speech to considering that budget in the light of the four western provinces of Canada. I make no apology for speaking on behalf of the four western provinces, the fastest growing and most exciting provinces of Canada.
During the course of the minister's speech he referred to the question of tariff policy for Canada and the Kennedy round of tariff negotiations being sponsored by the members
4072	COMMONS
The Budget-Mr. Basford of GATT. The Kennedy round seems to me to have almost become bogged down in a round of endless negotiation and discussion and, as the Minister of Finance very rightly warned us, the powers accorded the United States government by the U.S. Trade Expansion Act expire in 1967.
I know the minister will give every impetus to our Canadian negotiations to assure that the Kennedy round is as successful as possible in causing multilateral reductions of tariffs and the creation of freer and more liberal trade. The minister said in his speech, as reported at page 3376 of Hansard:
But at a time when we are engaged in one of the largest international tariff negotiations in our history I think the house will appreciate the desirability of using whatever tariff reductions we contemplate to help us obtain better access to foreign markets for our own exports.
[DOT] (3:20 p.m.)
With that statement, Mr. Speaker, I am in general agreement, particularly when we look at our markets in Europe and the United States. However, I should like to draw the minister's attention to one area of the world to which I think this tariff program is not necessarily applicable, namely, the numerous so-called Pacific rim areas, Japan and the underdeveloped areas of Southeast Asia. I suggest that to have access for Canadian products to these markets it is not necessary for us to engage in bilateral tariff negotiations. We in Canada have traditionally been oriented to our Atlantic and European markets. This suggestion is not new with me. Our trading policy in Canada must also be oriented to the vast potential markets of the Pacific ocean area. Access to these markets for Canada, unlike our traditional markets, is not so dependent upon international tariff negotiations.
To gain access to this area we would not have to engage in bilateral or multilateral tariff negotiations. I suggest they play a minor part, and rather more important is that our foreign policy generally and our foreign aid and credit policy specifically must be complementary to our trading policy. As an export market for the raw materials, the mineral concentrates, potash-I compliment the minister for removing the tax on potash extraction-chemicals, the wheat and grain products of western Canada, we do not believe that eastern Canada and the Atlantic community provide the answer but we look rather across the ocean to Japan, southeast Asia and western Latin America.

DEBATES	April 20. 1966
We on the west coast are bordering on one of the most populous regions of the world. As the underdeveloped Asian countries develop, their need for raw materials and manufactured products will be immense. In western Canada we want to assure that Canada fills a high proportion of those needs.
Surely it is in Canada's interest to do everything possible to realize the potentials of trading into this area. In order to do so we must undertake a realignment of some of our traditional trading patterns, and I want to make three specific recommendations. We have, as stressed by the minister, a difficult and dangerous balance of payments problem with the United States which must be solved. In referring to longer term solutions to our balance of payments problem the minister said, as reported on page 3379 of Hansard:
Our basic approach is twofold; first, through industrial, commercial and manpower policies, to adapt the structure of the Canadian economy to exploit effectively the most rapidly growing markets at home and abroad;
As an aside, Mr. Speaker, I almost wish he had said we would use industrial, commercial, manpower, water and transportation policies to adapt the structures of the Canadian economy to exploit all of these markets. It certainly seems to me, at this particular time, that it is idle chatter to discuss the export and sale of western Canadian water which is going to be needed in the four western provinces for the agricultural and industrial development of western Canada.
I suggest that possibly the most rapidly growing markets abroad are in industrial Japan and the developing nations of southeast Asia. I suggest to the minister that many of the products we now buy from the United States, and which contribute to our balance of payments problem, could well be bought from Japan, a country with which we have an overwhelmingly favourable balance of trade. I should like to quote briefly from the Journal of Commerce, an important western publication for March 26, 1966, in which the changing pattern of Pacific trade is discussed. The Journal said:
These products are finding an increasingly important place-
Referring to the new products coming from Japan.
-in western Canadian markets. They range from motorcycles and automobiles to heavy tractors; from small upright drills to large turret lathes; from insulators to electric generators; from steel plate to huge diameter pipe.
April 20, 1966

At the same time, Japan has become an important market for Canadian raw materials, as well as finished and semi-finished goods. Japanese industry is teaming up with Canadian investors to explore and develop many resources, thereby putting mines, pulp mills and other industries here into full production.
In 1964, Mr. Speaker, only 9 per cent of Canada's textile imports came from Japan, only 4 per cent of our sundries came from the same source and Japan supplied only 2.3 per cent of our total Canadian imports. Even in view of these surprisingly low figures and our continuously favourable trade balance with Japan as well as our dangerous imbalance with the United States, Japan is asked to impose upon itself voluntary quotas on its exports to Canada. I suggest that this is principally in order to allow some of our marginal and often antiquated industries to continue to struggle along.
Canada's trade with Japan last year amounted to $350 million in exports and $220 million in imports, leaving a trade balance in our favour of $130 million. These are the latest available 1965 estimates. In line with the minister's policy announcement of taking industrial, commercial and manpower policies to exploit effectively the most rapidly growing markets abroad, and since Japan is one of those markets, I recommend to him in the strongest possible terms the immediate removal of voluntary quotas on Japanese imports to Canada and the removal of other tariff impediments to Japanese trade. Japanese-Canadian trade, Mr. Speaker, is good for Canada. We should remove immediately any impediments to that trade.
As a second specific recommendation, it seems to me that many of our industrial and commercial concerns are afraid of the impact upon their business of the importation of products from abroad without tariff protection. It is trite to say that trade is a two way street and in order to sell we must buy. It is understandable that the owners of businesses which will be affected by increased importations, and the workers in those industries, would be concerned about the future and security of their capital or of their jobs.
I think that we in Canada have not yet developed the proper techniques for dealing with this problem. President Kennedy's trade expansion act, which was designed to provide a lowering of United States tariffs and to bring about increased imports into the United States, provided machinery by which the government could assist those industries and
The Budget-Mr. Basford those jobs affected by lower tariffs. I recommend to the minister that we in Canada must also develop similar techniques. In recommending increased imports from Japan, for example, I am not unmindful of the problems, or at least the concern, created, for example, in the Canadian textile industry. We must develop machinery to assist those people who would be affected or who think they would be affected.
This government's labour mobility program and other programs, for which I compliment them in that they are new, imaginative programs, will be of some help in this connection. However, I believe we must go farther than the existing policies in assisting the relocation of capital and of jobs that will be affected by freer trade. We need newer techniques to eliminate the understandable human concern of some people for the future of their business or of their jobs. We need also a policy directly aimed at assisting capital and workers in moving from one productive process to another.
Third, Mr. Speaker, in order to develop our export markets to the fullest it is essential that we develop transportation policies and facilities that can get the products of western Canada to those markets of the Pacific Ocean area speedily, cheaply and on guaranteed delivery schedules. On December 13 last year the Minister of Transport (Mr. Pickersgill) announced an integrated study of Atlantic provinces transportation problems. I should like to quote from the press release of that date:
The integrated study of transportation problems and requirements of the Atlantic provisions was officially launched...
Acres Research and Planning Limited... will combine forces with the Economist Intelligence Unit of London, England, to carry out this major transportation study...
The over-all objective of the study is to assess the effectiveness of the present transportation systems and to determine how they can best be developed to foster the economic growth and wellbeing of the Atlantic provinces.
[DOT] (3:30 p.m.)
Farther on there is this statement:
Adequate transportation links between the Atlantic provinces and the major economic areas of the continent are essential to the growth of these provinces. Rising production and consumption are reflected in greater traffic flows. It is recognized that existing networks of road, rail, air and water transportation will have to be improved and extended. This may require major revisions involving considerable capital expenditure. The Atlantic provinces' transportation study will review the transportation problems against the background of the prospects for growth in the primary and secondary industries of all four provinces.
April 20. 1966

The Budget

Mr. Basford
The Atlantic Development Board, the government of Canada and the premiers of the four Atlantic provinces have seen the need and the wisdom of such a study for the Atlantic provinces. I suggest and specifically recommend that if Canada is to exploit its foreign markets to the fullest such a study is urgently required for the four western provinces.
The rapidly rising export from western Canada of grain, metal concentrates, potash, gypsum, sulphur and chemicals has already led to transportation problems, bottlenecks and lack of facilities. We need only recall the debate on box cars in this house not so many weeks ago. This situation seriously limits or endangers many of our overseas transactions, and I suggest that in the future it will become even more serious.
Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I propose that there should be a comprehensive analysis of all of the transportation, storage and handling systems which are or will be involved in moving and distributing western Canadian resources and products to inland and overseas customers. The specific objectives of the proposed study should be to develop recommendations on a short, medium and long term basis to lead to actions to (a) increase western Canada's capacity for transporting its products to local and overseas customers; (b) increase the speed of our deliveries; (c) increase the reliability of our deliveries, and (d) reduce to the lowest possible level the costs of delivery to keep our products competitive.
Such a study would involve a review and analysis of western Canada's future sales and potential market areas over the next 15 to 25-year period and a determination of our transportation requirements to fulfil these maximum sales and reach these market areas. It would involve, therefore, a careful review and analysis of all of the links in our transportation chain, a study of our local and pool elevators, a study of our present and future extractive resource sites, the future sites of mines, refineries and pulp mills, our rail operations including both their possible abandonment and curtailment and also, more importantly, their development into new resource areas, the economy and efficiency of unit trains for the movement of bulk cargo, a study of the capacity of the Fraser Canyon rail lines and methods of increasing that capacity by either twinning the tracks or using one track eastbound and the other westbound.

This review and analysis would also involve a study of our trucking operations, both as a means of delivery to intermediate or final loading points, and the need for and best location of a second trans-Canada highway; the place of fluid pipe lines and, even more exciting, the role of solids pipe lines for the transportation of coal, chemicals and even grain, on which the Alberta Research Council and others have already done such valuable work; inland shipping, direct ocean shipping; the terminal, storage, transfer and handling facilities of our Pacific ports of Vancouver, New Westminster and Prince Rupert for both general cargo and, probably more importantly, bulk loading facilities; the examination of new port sites such as the presently discussed Sturgeon Banks off the lower mainland of British Columbia, and our Pacific port handling facilities not only for today's vessels but for the type of vessels that will be arriving, or at least should be arriving, on the Pacific coast in the future.
Each part of our western transportation system, Mr. Speaker, both publicly and privately owned, should be studied to determine and assess its present capacity, operation and effectiveness and the extent and speed with which the capacity and effectiveness of each facility can and should be increased. We should determine the bottlenecks and inadequacies of our transportation system and the sequence in which these bottlenecks should be eliminated or the inadequacies filled.
The Atlantic transportation study which I mentioned is being conducted by Acres Research and Planning Limited in consortium with the Economist Intelligence Unit of London, England, and I am sure there are other firms working either singly or in consortium which would be suitable for such a study of western Canadian transportation.
I am not suggesting, Mr. Speaker, another full-dress royal commission on transportation facilities; in fact, I would deplore the appointment of such. As an aside I might almost say: God preserve us from the present ones we have working. I want and I am advocating rather a comprehensive and coordinated study, by knowledgeable and expert consulting engineers and transportation and market analysts, of our transportation needs in western Canada both present and future and how best our transportation systems, co-ordinated on an economic and feasible basis, can foster the economic growth,
April 20, 1966	COMMONS
prosperity and development of the four western provinces.
Such consultants as I am advocating should divide their recommendations into short-term, medium-term and long-term proposals so that within one or at the most two years recommendations and action plans could be designed for a group of immediate improvements. Then during subsequent stages of the examination, over say three to five years, longer term recommendations could be devised and a continuing analysis of the implementation of previously approved recommendations could be made.
In the time allowed to me, Mr. Speaker, I have recommended three specific things in connection with the increasing and total exploitation of the markets which are available to the products of western Canada. I have suggested the removal of voluntarily imposed quotas on Japan and the removal of all tariff impediments to Canadian-Japanese trade. I have suggested policies to assist those industries and workers which would be affected by freer trade so that they would not oppose the liberalization or freeing of our trade. Third, I have recommended transportation policies so that western Canada can maximize its endeavours to gain access to the markets of the Pacific ocean area. These are specific proposals, Mr. Speaker.
In conclusion may I say to the Minister of Finance in a general way, and I know he is not unsympathetic to this view, that in working out his budgetary proposals for this country and in shaping the fiscal, tariff and monetary policies of Canada he must always remind himself that we live in a very vast country composed of five quite different economic regions, the interests of which are not always compatible and sometimes conflict. He must also remind himself, and I emphasize this, that that which is good for central Canada is not necessarily always good for the extremities of the country, such as the Atlantic provinces and British Columbia, and also the prairies. Yet the extremities of the country both east and west, the Atlantic provinces and British Columbia, and also the prairies, have a right to look and must be able to look to him as minister and to the government of Canada to initiate policies which will assist, foster and strengthen the industrial, commercial and trade development of the far eastern and far western regions of Canada.
DEBATES	4075
The Budget-Mr. Nielsen [DOT] (3:40 p.m.)


Mr. Erik Nielsen (Yukon):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to discuss today a national resource before I discuss generally the provisions of the budget. My remarks are directed specifically to the Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources, who I am very happy to see is in his seat, and to the government. My remarks, sir, are directed as well to all members of this house and also to you.
There is some misunderstanding, I believe, with respect to a matter I raised on one or two occasions in the house before the Easter recess with respect to the pilfering by commercial organizations in the city of Edmonton of the Klondike theme.
There can be no doubt about the responsibility of the government of Canada for the development of northern resources. There can be no doubt about the exclusiveness of the jurisdiction of the government of Canada over the development of these resources. It follows, therefore, that there is a direct responsibility on the minister and on the government in the resource development field. Unlike the provinces where exclusive jurisdiction over resource development resides entirely within the jurisdiction of the provincial legislatures, the responsibility here is clearly that of the government and of the minister.
I therefore suggest, sir, that when the matter is raised in the house, and when I make these remarks I cast no reflections whatsoever upon the Chair, I am merely endeavouring to inform the Chair of the national nature of the subject matter which has been raised by me on previous occasions, on each occasion that the matter is raised it must be determined whether it is one of sufficient urgency to be raised on orders of the day.
It is also quite clear, sir, that tourism is a resource. The extent to which tourist revenues in this country increased under the previous government to a point where for the first time in history our balance of trade with the United States was on the credit side is a matter of record.
There is also, sir, no doubt that throughout the whole world the romantic ring of the Klondike remains despite the passage of 68 years. The Klondike and all that that era stands for remains in the minds of people throughout the world. It is a great tourist drawing card. It is a potential tourist revenue earner in an industry the development of
April 20, 1966

The Budget-Mr. Nielsen which is vital to bringing the Yukon out of what the minister himself has described as a deficit area.
That the Klondike is in the Yukon can also not be doubted. That the whole of the Yukon tourist industry is built around the Klondike is also quite clear. Any extended effort, therefore, by any agency whatsoever to attempt to drain off by the exploitation of the Klondike theme tourist revenues from the Yukon will seriously impair not only the development of that industry in the Yukon but will also seriously impair that day when the Yukon can call itself economically independent and that day when the Yukon can look forward, because of that fact, to selfgovernment.
I am sure that the commercial organizations in the city of Edmonton and the city fathers were well meaning in choosing the theme of the development days of the Klondike when three years ago, I believe, the federal government evidenced a declining interest in the promotion of several projects in which the government of Canada had invested substantially. The Yukon had been developing its Klondike tourist industry for many years before the city of Edmonton commenced what I have called on previous occasions this larcenous exploitation of a resource which in no way belongs to it.
It would be different if this exploitation were a one-night stand. It would be different if it were on isolated occasions that the theme was exploited. It has been exploited in almost every province and in many cities and communities throughout Canada; in fact, it has been exploited not only in Canada but throughout the world. However, this is an extended and continuing effort by the city of Edmonton with, I must assume, the condonation of the province of Alberta to exploit something to which they have absolutely no proprietary right.


An hon. Member:: Are you saying there are a lot of bootleggers?


Erik Nielsen: They are claim jumpers. That is what they are. This continuing exploitation, sir, is hitting the Yukon hard. The minister will agree with that. It is syphoning off tourist revenues that otherwise would go to the Yukon. The argument is, of course, that we are adopting a dog in the manger attitude.
Sir, we do not have the resources in the Yukon that the city of Edmonton has within its municipal boundaries in order to fully

exploit this resource. Our efforts must be combined and are being combined with those of the previous government and this government to exploit this resource for the benefit of the economic future of the Yukon. Many tourists the world over under the impact of the tremendous publicity campaign now being carried on by the city of Edmonton will stay in Edmonton, enjoy the Klondike days which have been organized there and go home thinking they have seen the Klondike. The result will be a distortion of Canadian history.
The Klondike is not in Edmonton, nor does that famous and fabulous era of Canadian history have anything to do with Edmonton. It was not Edmonton that made the contribution in the way the Klondike did to the over-all economic development of this country during the gold rush days.
The promotional literature I hold in my hand, sir, is an expensive, coloured brochure issued by the Edmonton Exhibition Association and it leaves the clear impression that the Klondike is in the city of Edmonton. They have stolen Klondike Mike. They have stolen Klondike Kate. They have stolen the Chilkoot mine. They have even stolen the Yukon.


An hon. Member:: That is hard.


Erik Nielsen: It has in large print: "Ride The E.Y. & P." Then in small print it says:
A small version of the famous Edmonton, Yukon & Pacific steam train chugs and hisses around the half mile-
And so it goes.


An hon. Member:: But it is still in Edmonton.


Erik Nielsen: The White Pass and Yukon route is the railway of history that chugged its way through the days of the Klondike gold rush.
Another advertisement says that you can visit the Chilkoot mine of those famous days, even though very few Edmontonians involved in this commercial exploitation know the geographic location of the Chilkoot pass. It is said that you can pan for real gold nuggets. Well, sir, they would have to be imported because there are none in Edmonton.
Under the heading, "Lively Downtown Celebrations", is the following:
Local citizens wear costumes of the Klondike era-recalling the fabulous excitement of the gold rush era.
April 20, 1966

[DOT] (3:50 p.m.)
When did Edmonton have a gold rush era? They like to say, sir, that many prospectors and sourdoughs who travelled to the Yukon passed through Edmonton. Sir, the cities of Seattle, San Francisco and Vancouver played a much larger part in that history than the city of Edmonton ever did. In another part of this brochure they invite the citizens to "return to the lively days of the gold rush." Again, this is in the city of Edmonton. How can we in the Yukon compete with the Mounted Police musical ride which has been imported for the purpose of this immoral and illegal exploitation? I am surprised that the Mounted Police would lend themselves to such an unlawful purpose and I mean no reflection on the force when I say this. "Bonanza", too, has been stolen. Under all this material we find the inscription of the Edmonton Exhibition Association whose motto is printed here as being "Pro Bono Publico", for the public good.
It does a disservice to Canada to allow this kind of exploitation to continue. Neither the citizens of the Yukon nor the government of the Yukon can endorse a continuance of this kind of illegal and immoral exploitation. When I say "the government of the Yukon" I mean the minister and his representative in the Yukon together with the Yukon legislative council. I believe the minister has received a resolution passed unanimously by the Yukon legislative council asking him to take action. The government of the province of Alberta cannot be left out because we are not speaking of the Yukon versus Edmonton in this issue; we are speaking of the Yukon and the province of Alberta. We can no more speak of the Yukon and Edmonton than we can of Dawson and Edmonton. I suggest to the minister that he has an obligation to act, and to act now, on the request of the people of the Yukon made known to him through the Yukon legislative council. He has an even greater responsibility. It is to retain intact a resource which comes under his personal protection as a member of a government which has direct responsibility for resource development.
The council has asked the minister to intervene with the government of the province of Alberta. It has asked for his intervention with the city of Edmonton. It has asked for his intervention with those responsible for Expo '67. Instead of allowing the city of Edmonton to anticipate the establishment of any kind of display at Expo '67 which would

The Budget-Mr. Nielsen involve the exploitation of the Klondike, the minister should himself be considering taking action at Expo '67 similar to that which was taken during the last Grey Cup parade. He advertised the Yukon in that parade, and quite properly. He should take the same attitude now and give this matter his most serious consideration.


Arthur Laing: Would the hon. member be agreeable to calling it "the real Klondike"?


Erik Nielsen: There is only one legitimate Klondike. Anything less than that is a hoax. Anything less than that is an immoral if not an illegal offer made by agencies so as to deprive an area coming under the minister's direct responsibility of its proprietary right to a resource the responsibility for the development of which lies upon the hon. gentleman's shoulders.
That legal action is possible should not escape the minister's consideration. I ask him to look at section 306 of the Criminal Code which deals specifically with frauds of this nature.


Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert: Oh, that is carrying it a little far.


Arthur Laing: May I ask the hon. member whether he has made any representations to the members of parliament from the Edmonton area?


Erik Nielsen: I have, sir. We in the Yukon are ready to believe that those who originated this exploitation did so in a well meaning fashion. But we also believe they do not appreciate the serious and deleterious long range effect this kind of thing will have on the development not only of this specific resource but of the Yukon as a whole. We asked them to reconsider that poster. This is not a dog in a manger attitude we are taking. Many thousands of taxpayers' dollars out of Canadian pockets generally have gone into the building up and exploitation of the tourist resource in the north. Our tourist resource in this part of northern Canada, the Yukon, is built solidly, squarely, specifically and exclusively on the Klondike area. Any attempt to mislead tourists into believing that the Klondike area exists elsewhere is bald fraud.
As to the Budget generally, I have studied this Budget trying to find a clue to a coherent fiscal or economic policy, and I can say it makes trying to find a needle in a haystack an absolute cinch. They took the tax off false teeth. After the new taxes no one will need their teeth, false or otherwise. At present food prices teeth are a waste of time.
April 20, 1966

The Budget-Mr. Nielsen
A serious question affecting mortgages was raised today by my right hon. friend, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Diefenbaker). The minister in charge of housing, the Minister of Labour (Mr. Nicholson), said today

I believe I heard him correctly-that the problem was nation-wide and had become so in the last few weeks. This can be attributed directly to the policies of the present government outlined in the Budget and to the ruinous acceptance by this administration of guide lines emanating from Washington.
While I am referring to the Minister of Labour I am compelled to add that he is the Only minister now in charge of a skeleton department. Some have skeleton staffs but the Minister of Labour has a skeleton department. In this connection I should refer in passing to the report on the Department of Labour by Woods, Gordon and Company dated November, 1965, in which it is stressed that manpower and labour relations must be closely integrated. This government completely ignored that report in setting up a separate department of manpower. Here is a massive survey undertaken at a great deal of public expense and completed no later than November last. Yet immediately after the election it is thrown out of the window for reasons of pure expediency.
I submit that the Budget tackled inflation at the wrong end. The problem of inflation is to equate production with demand. Hon. gentlemen opposite are cutting down demand instead of helping production. Canadians are being penalized in an era of plenty because this government has no confidence in the capacity of the economy to produce enough to meet demand.
[DOT] (4:00 p.m.)
Canadian industry and Canadian labour can produce. There can be no doubt on that score. The real problem confronting us today is that costs of production have risen. Why have costs of production gone up? They have gone up because the cost of everything the working man must buy has gone out of sight. Never before in the history of this country have we had not only such a high cost of living but, over a few short years, such a remarkably accelerated increase in that cost of living. The costs of food, clothing, recreation and accommodation have soared. Food costs alone went up 7 per cent in the past year. The result is that labour has been forced to ask for higher wages in order to make ends meet. No one can blame labour for that. People who work for a living have a 
right to a fair share of the present prosperity but under this government, with high taxes, high prices and high costs, this has been denied.
Why do we have high prices? It is because the government increased the money supply in Canada by 12 per cent in 1965 compared with 6 per cent in 1964.


Mitchell William Sharp: Would the hon. gentleman permit a question? Could he square the statement he is now making with his earlier complaints about the lack of money in the economy?


Erik Nielsen: I did not catch the minister's question.


Mitchell William Sharp: Earlier the hon. gentleman was referring to the scarcity of money. Now he is complaining about the fact that we expanded the money supply by 12 per cent.


Erik Nielsen: I was speaking of a specific situation in the housing industry which should be met. I criticized it and I shall be advancing a constructive suggestion. That situation should be met in the way the Conservative government met it when it injected many millions of dollars into the housing industry, which had dramatic, exciting results and did not cause the tremendous impact presently being caused by tight money.


Mitchell William Sharp: May I ask the hon. gentleman another question? Was it not true that during that time there was a great deal of unused resources and high unemployment in Canada?


John George Diefenbaker: What about the United States?


Erik Nielsen: I do not believe the minister can deny that there was more done during the term of office of the previous government to accelerate resource development than was ever done before, and all this government has done in the three years it has been in office is simply to endorse and/or expand those policies which were developed during the days of the previous government.


Mitchell William Sharp: Was that why there was so much unemployment in those days?


Erik Nielsen: In the first place, the unemployment which confronted the previous government when it took office in 1957 was a legacy of those now sitting on the treasury benches, in particular of the minister who was then a deputy minister in that administration. In the second place, the minister
April 20, 1966

himself would admit that the upswing in the economy began in 1961, two years prior to his government taking office. His colleague, the ex-minister of finance, has admitted this many times. I am simply saying one thing, sir, that when you have too few dollars chasing too few goods you have inflation, and that is precisely what we have in Canada at the present time.


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: Such an economist.


Erik Nielsen: Mr. Speaker, I am described by the hon. member for Verdun (Mr. Mack-asey) as the new economic expert. He will have an opportunity to expose his own knowledge in this field.


The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rinfret):: Order. The hon. member for Verdun.


Bryce Stuart Mackasey: I realize I am out of my seat-


John George Diefenbaker: Mr. Speaker, is the hon. member in his seat? He cannot speak from there.


The Acting Speaker (Mr. Rinfret):: Order. The hon. member for Verdun knows that if he wishes to take part in the debate or ask a question he should be in his seat.


An hon. Member:: Now he is moving over.


Bryce Stuart Mackasey: I rise on a point of order, Mr. Speaker, only because the hon. member for Yukon alluded to a statement he thought I made which I did not make but which I wish I had made. The reference that was made was to new economic policies. I remember the hon. member for Yukon saying that when too few dollars chase after too few goods inflation is the result. I thought at the time that this was a new monetary policy.


Erik Nielsen: It may have been the influence of the Minister of Industry (Mr. Drury) on the hon. member for Verdun. At any rate, Mr. Speaker, this government has simply not attempted to cope with the situation. It increased the money supply for the simple reason that under the ex-minister of finance a deal was made whereby Canadians would not undertake large scale borrowings in the United States.
The government accepted guide lines and directives from the United States curbing direct investment in Canada. It increased the money supply in order to make up the deficiency and to provide a spurious prosperity
The Budget-Mr. Nielsen prior to the election. Now Canadians are being asked to pay for it.
The government imposed an 11 per cent sales tax which has produced rising costs at every stage of industrial manufacture, not only making it difficult for Canadian producers to compete internationally but making it possible for them to be undersold in the Canadian market by imported United States products. That is why we have had at one and the same time, sagging export figures and soaring import figures.


Mitchell William Sharp: Mr. Speaker, may I ask the hon. gentleman to give us the sagging export figures of which he complains?


Erik Nielsen: Mr. Speaker, I believe the record speaks for itself.


Mitchell William Sharp: It does.


Erik Nielsen: Yes, it does. The hon. member for Northumberland (Mr. Hees) has raised this matter on previous occasions. The hon. member for Wellington South (Mr. Hales) and several other hon. members on this side have raised it.


Mitchell William Sharp: Equally erroneously.


Erik Nielsen: The minister asks me to quote figures which I do not have at hand. He hopes to win a point, but he does not.


Mitchell William Sharp: There are no such figures of sagging exports.


Erik Nielsen: There are such figures and they are on the record. The minister likes to cover up the situation that exists.


Mitchell William Sharp: No. I am asking you to give the figures.


Erik Nielsen: The automobile pact was supposed to help ease our balance of payments deficit with the United States but since the pact was introduced in January, 1965, we have brought more American cars and parts into the country than at any time in our history. Those cars still cost the same in Canada as they did previously. At the same time, parts that used to be made in Canada are now being made in the United States. Our deficit with the United States is the highest it has ever been and our world deficit is over $1 billion-


Mitchell William Sharp: Not as high as it has been.


Erik Nielsen: -on account of that. This is a situation that will seriously strain Canada's international credit.
April 20, 1966

The Budget-Mr. Nielsen
What the government should have done was to remove immediately the 11 per cent sales tax on equipment and material in order to reduce costs to industry. Instead it has promised to cut it down to 6 per cent in April, 1967, and to remove it by 1968. This, I suggest, is too little and too late.
What has happened is that the Budget completely failed to take into consideration the real needs of Canada's economy. We must maintain, not curb, expansion. We must do it without allowing inflation to continue unchecked. The minister's approach was purely that of a bureaucrat eager to cure the symptoms without considering the real nature of the disease. There is a very real possiblity that the shortsighted and negative approach in the Budget will endanger Canada's economic expansion and place this nation's economy in a strait-jacket. Already there are signs of that happening.
[DOT] (4:10 p.m.)
This is a government, sir, which gives the appearance of fearing expansion. A timid, fearful and negative attitude is the very antithesis to what is required at the present time. We must preserve the prosperity which Canadians have worked so hard to achieve and at the same time maintain a reasonable balance between costs and prices. We must remove taxes which serve only to hinder and not encourage the smooth flow of economic expansion.
As a Conservative I am particularly concerned about the effects of this negative and overly-cautious approach, because it was our policies which made prosperity possible; it was our policies which enabled the ex-minister of finance to say that the upswing in the economy began in 1961, which I do not believe the minister will dispute.


Mr, Sharp:: May I ask the hon. member a question? Was it not the policies of the previous administration which brought about the exchange crisis?


Erik Nielsen: It certainly was not. It certainly was not this party which did such a disservice to Canada's image internationally as was done by those now occupying the treasury benches in their political campaigns in 1962 and 1963 by disparaging the devaluation of the dollar, a situation that the minister now has no intention of altering. A great thing has happened as a result of the devaluation of the dollar; yet the minister and those surrounding him in those election

campaigns certainly were the severest critics of the action taken at that time.


Mitchell William Sharp: Only of the exchange crisis.


Erik Nielsen: And in so doing did a great disservice to Canada's image internationally.
The present expansion, as the minister knows, is now in its fifth year having begun in 1961, two years before the Liberal government took office. It commenced as a result of, first, the massive wheat sales, wheat sales that were strongly criticized from across the way when that policy was announced by the previous government. It began as a result of capital development programs such as the Saskatchewan dam and the Pine Point railroad, which again were severely criticized by those opposite when they sat on this side of the house.
Another factor in the expansion was the assistance to shipbuilding, seriously curtailed since this government took office. There were also incentives to exploration and development, another program commenced by the previous government and only enlarged upon in a meagre manner by the Minister of Northern Affairs and National Besources (Mr. Laing) since that time. I can sympathize with him and the difficulty he has in coping with the myopic attitudes of his cabinet colleagues in this regard. Other programs dealt with the retraining of manpower, vocational training and municipal winter works. All of these projects were the foundation for what the government is attempting to take credit for now. Devaluation of the dollar provided a tremendous impetus to Canadian exports and gave us new records in overseas trade.
All this is in danger of being thrown away on account of the unrealistic, timid and uninspired policies of this government. The Budget is an attempt simply to maintain the status quo. This is not good enough. In the affairs of men and nations, to stand still is to fall back, and where the government has not been standing still it has been leaping sideways.
The Aciing Speaker (Mr. Rinfrei): Order. I regret that it is necessary to inform the hon. member for Yukon that the time allotted to him has expired.
Mr. R, N. Thompson (Red Deer): Mr. Speaker, having listened to the hon. member for Yukon (Mr. Nielsen) in the last few minutes, I think the Minister of Finance (Mr. Sharp) ought to be thankful he does not have
April 20. 1966

the hon. member for Yukon and the hon. member for Verdun (Mr. Mackasey) on his staff. When they look at Hansard I believe some of their inflationary definitions may be kind of hard to follow.


Erik Nielsen: I am sorry I do not have a printing press.


Robert Norman Thompson: I should like to say to the hon. member for Yukon that if he really wanted to do something for his very important territory, aside from complaining about Edmonton's so-called usurpation of a tourist theme, he and I might get together in an effort to see that the government finishes the Alaska highway. In that way we would do more for that northern part of the country than all the Yukon days put together from now until the end of time.


Erik Nielsen: And pave it too.


Robert Norman Thompson: Let us hope that the
Minister of Finance has some influence on the members of the government and will be able to get them to realize that this project is one that has been long neglected and overlooked by the government which concentrates its interest on the eastern part of the country, and that the completion and paving of this highway could do a great deal for the economy not only of the west but of the whole country.
I was most interested to hear the hon. member for Vancouver-Burrard (Mr. Bas-ford) classify himself as the spokesman for the four great western provinces. If he took a little closer look at things I think he would realize that the prosperity of his own province is due largely to the imaginative, impressive and progressive government of that province. Probably this is true of all the western provinces. What bothers me as I go over the Budget speech and hear the contributions to the debate made by various members is the fact that the policy of holding back or retarding the so-called economic boom in Canada comes from the federal minister in direct opposition to the over-all, sound provincial administrations across the country which I think are basically responsible for the degree of prosperity we have in Canada at this time.
The reverse ought to be true, and I think it is perhaps because of this fact that we feel we need leadership and direction from the federal government and do not have the degree of unity or national identity that we

The Budget-Mr. Thompson so desperately need. I am sure the Minister of Finance is viewing the Budget debate as a really worth-while educational experience. I hope to add a little to the debate myself.
I should like to say to the minister that I think he has made a grave mistake in stepping on the brake in an effort to control the prosperous era in our country and that he would have been much better advised to take hold of the steering wheel instead and attempt to redirect certain areas of it so that it would not end up in what could be a very undesirable situation; it is one which might be effective in some areas and completely ineffective and harmful in others. Where there is a situation of inflation, particularly in respect of the control of the spiral of prices, something needs to be done. However, Mr. Speaker, it is the contention of those of us in the Social Credit party that to apply inflationary pressures to the extent that we might burst this economic bubble is more dangerous than what the Minister of Finance is attempting to correct at the present time.
[DOT] (4:20 p.m.)
I cannot quite understand the minister as he talks about us having reached our productive capacity, because when the Minister of Trade and Commerce (Mr. Winters) gave us his guide lines in respect of United States subsidiaries operating in Canada he spoke of the need of Canadian owned companies and United States subsidiaries alike to strive for a maximum realization of the potential for full participation in the life of the Canadian economic community. To say that at this time that we have in any way reached the capacity of our productive machine is, I think, a completely false assumption because I am sure we could without any real difficulty increase our productive capacity in practically every area by 50 per cent in the next couple of years.
If the economy is operating at capacity, why is the government involved in a war on poverty? Why is the ARDA program almost swamped with requests for rehabilitation projects? Why is it that in Canada we still have
340,000	unemployed? It is not that we have a dearth of skilled labour; the fact is that we have not speeded up our retraining and educational programs nor have we applied the right incentives in the right areas to reduce this tremendously large surplus of employable labour so that the over-all picture of the economy may go forward at an even more rapid pace than is the case at the present time.
4082	COMMONS
The Budget-Mr. Thompson
The number of ridiculous paradoxes in our economy shows clearly that it is redirection this economy needs rather than reduced speed. We find the construction industry now having to slow down because of manpower shortages in certain areas; yet the growth in the civil service and in other governmental employment areas in Canada goes forward by leaps and bounds. We are urged to buy Canada back from the United States, but the provisions of the Bank Act make it necessary for industry and government as well to turn to the United States for the kind of risk and development capital that is needed in this country. It seems to me that Canadians are more willing to invest in the national debt because the return is higher and more secure than investing in resource development.
I think the assumption made by the hon. member for York South (Mr. Lewis) yesterday, when he cried out against the so-called profiteering and gangsterism in the economic picture of this nation, is completely ill-founded, because what we need today is to encourage private Canadian capital to move into the development of Canadian resources. As evidence of this, Mr. Speaker-and I draw this point specifically to the attention of the Minister of Finance-there is the fact that Canadian borrowing on the United States market during January and February of 1966 was 11 times more than it was during those two months of 1965. Yet we learn from statistics published in the press, I think only the day before yesterday, that savings deposits in Canada amounted to nearly $10 billion at the end of February and personal savings deposits during last year increased by something like $800 million.
Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I say that what we need is redirection in a way that will encourage Canadians to invest their savings in the development of our resource wealth. Without this type of encouragement and governmental policy we have to run to the United States to obtain our capital. Those of us who believe there should be a greater degree of economic nationalism in Canada hear many people complaining about the investment of the American dollar in this country, but I do not believe this is a legitimate complaint as long as Canadians refuse to invest their savings in their own country. How can we blame someone else for investing in the resources of Canada if we apparently do not have the courage necessary to do so ourselves?

DEBATES	April 20, 1966
I believe that exports are necessary to improve our balance of payments situation, but tight money policies and taxation combine to put the Canadian producer in a non-competitive situation. In this connection I wish to refer for a few moments to the oil industry of Canada. I wonder how much concern there is on the part of Canadians with regard to the take-over of this Canadian industry by American companies, an industry which is the third largest in this country at the present time? I do not believe there is too much concern-apparently there is not -because of the reluctance of Canadians to invest in our oil industry. Even those who fear that it may eventually lead to a political take-over are cautious in their assessment of the situation. From a strictly business point of view most of them regard the capital inflow as a blessing and, in the realities of our economic life, had it not been for the willingness of Americans to invest capital in these resources they would not have been developed to the extent we see today.
I think it is an indictment of Canadian governmental policy that we have not been able to induce Canadian people to invest their savings and provide a sufficient amount of capital to develop at least half of our oil industry, and at the same time provide incentives that will encourage them to take over an even greater part of it. Without American capital where would we be in the development of our natural resources? I mention this fact only because I believe that rather than a slow-down policy or a braking of the economy there should be a redirection of the economy so that Canadians would be more willing to invest in our natural resources. Canada has had a great deal of money lying idle in savings accounts all through this development period. Billions of dollars have been lying idle. Unfortunately this has been largely caused, I believe, by the policies of the federal government, and as a result Canadians have been more interested through the years in investing in American development rather than the development of Canada.
At the present time the per capita investment in the United States by Canadians is two and a half times the per capita investment of Americans in Canada. For this reason I believe the Minister of Finance should have directed his energies and policies toward encouraging Canadians to play a greater part in the development of the resources of this country. Today the need is not to slow down production but rather to step up and
April 20, 1966

facilitate the distribution of what we can produce. One economist commented recently, "We are learning to live with prosperity, but we do not know as much about managing it as we do about getting there."
The general policy of slowing down the boom is a dangerous one. It is dangerous because the case for an inflationary situation has not really been made. The Minister of Finance says that we face the threat of dangerous inflation. I do not believe that in the traditional meaning of the word "inflation" this is true. With due respect to the attempt by the hon. member for Verdun (Mr. Mackasey) to define "inflation," I would say the inflation to which the Minister of Finance refers, but which is not really the case is caused by too many dollars chasing too few goods. If this were the case in Canada today, why are we borrowing from the United States market the tremendous amount of money that we have borrowed for our capital development?
In the first two months of this year we borrowed from the United States market $172 million. The amount was large last year but this year there has been a general increase in borrowing from the United States. I believe that we have in Canada today not an inflationary situation but a deflationary one. I do not think we have enough capital to carry on our normal commercial and industrial activities and at the same time carry on the resource development needed in this country. What we face in Canada today is an inflation of prices. It is this inflation of prices that is causing concern all across the country. In fact, Mr. Speaker, I think the general increase in prices that has been evident this year is just a beginning. It is in this area that we should be attempting to find an answer and employing the necessary slow-down in an effort to keep the cost of living in some sort of equilibrium.
[DOT] (4:30 p.m.)
The Economic Council in its second report clearly stated that there are not yet sufficient means for judging the economy to be in a phase of general inflation. The council warned the government, and I had hoped the minister would have taken more heed of this warning, by arguing that we should not be too quick to implement anti-inflationary policies. The council wisely said that fiscal and monetary policy should be aimed at sustaining economic growth over a prolonged period of time instead of using monetary policy in an attempt to control short term fluctuations
The Budget-Mr. Thompson in economic activity. Instead of attempting to slow down the entire economy, the government should have recognized the need for priority areas. In so far as expansion or maintaining the status quo is concerned, there can be no place for slowing down the productive growth of Canada. The development of our resources must go ahead with an increased rate of growth. It is the only means by which we can provide new jobs and an increased standard of living.
In this regard the attempt to apply in Canada a policy that is used in Sweden, namely, the withholding of a percentage of the earnings of corporations, I think is not going to accomplish the intended effect in any way whatever. The 5 per cent of earnings which is going to be held in a position of trust is only going to provide the security for new borrowings in foreign markets. Companies are already moving toward this idea in order to overcome the adverse effects of this particular policy. I do not believe it will work. Corporations will merely borrow on this accumulated credit.
I believe that those in this house who use Sweden as an example of the ideal controlled economy, which results in greater government control and ownership of industry, are completely wrong. The fact remains that today Sweden is basically a free enterprise country with over 90 per cent, in fact nearly 95 per cent, of her total productive machinery owned privately by the Swedish people.
I suggest to the minister there is another area of capital development which we cannot, we dare not, slow down. I am referring to essential capital development for such projects as schools, hospitals, universities and for research. We cannot slow down this type of economic development. While this is non-productive development, it is the pre-requisite for future productive development. I think the present policy of slow-down is going to run into difficulties because it is going to slow down these two areas of our economy that really should not be slowed down at all. The first one, again, is required for the productive sector of our economy and the development of our resources. The second is for the essential type of capital development which may be non-productive today but which is vitally connected with the productive process tomorrow.
There is a third area which should be considered in these areas of priority which might strictly be termed non-productive development and which could well be slowed
April 20, 1968

The Budget-Mr. Thompson down. I am speaking here of the construction of government buildings and the type of construction that is concerned with the World's Fair in Montreal as well as the centennial celebrations of our country.
This type of construction, which is truly non-productive in the sense of increasing the productive value of our economy, could well be slowed down. It could well be spread out over a longer period of time. I think what the minister should have done in his Budget was to give a new direction to the economy in these areas of priority and to have encouraged on the one hand a greater degree of expansion while on the other hand slowing down those areas that are not so much concerned with direct productive increase of the over-all economy.
In this regard it is interesting to note what is happening in connection with Expo '67. According to press reports yesterday the deficit for Expo '67 is going to be approximately $82 million, and the federal government is going to be responsible for half of that. I am not saying that construction of Expo should be slowed down, but this is the type of development that is really getting out of control. The construction of government buildings and that type of thing is all in this area as well. In fact, I think the danger that we face in Canada as a result of the Budget introduced by the minister-this is the reason I cannot agree with Budget policy-is that it will put this country into real difficulty instead of solving present problems.
There are certain areas where the expansion program is going ahead much faster than in other parts of the country. The two western provinces lead Canada in this regard, and Ontario is close behind, so far as a percentage increase is concerned. We should not be slowing that down; we should be encouraging that to go forward because that is where we are going to increase the value of our over-all economy which is going to help those areas that do not have the same increase in production.
I am concerned that the government in the Budget has seen fit to decrease the external aid program. Our external aid is not going out in the form of dollars to be spread across the world. We are using what we are able to produce and using our own personnel to help other people. This aid, therefore, comes right back to help us. I feel that this kind of aid program has some real hope of doing something big. We are using the wrong approach by reducing our aid; we should be increasing

it because it is also part of our international responsibility.
I believe, Mr. Speaker, there is another area in which the government should be applying the brake. This is the area of government expenditure as it relates to the increasing size of governments in Canada. The cost of government on the federal scene this year, along with the normal amount of supplementary estimates we can expect to be added to the proposed Budget, will bring federal expenditures into the neighbourhood of $10 billion. If we add that to the municipal and provincial budgets, we will find that in Canada today the prospect is for government expenditures to be at a level of approximately $20 billion. I do not believe we can afford this kind of luxury at this time.
I believe the Senate proposal for a basic annual income for senior citizens was the logical way for the government to help this area of our economy. The amendment to the amendment upon which we voted last night would have affected the entire structure of the economy. It was out of place at this time and therefore we could not support it.
I do believe the government should have been taking more care to slow down the increase in expenditures which have nothing to do with the productive increase in our economy. Along with this there should have been certain areas of tax reduction. I think it is interesting to note that the Alberta government has instituted a policy under which it is eliminating its share of death duties. I noted a statement in today's business section of the Gazette, in the column written by John Meyer, in which he suggests that succession duties might be one area in which we could decrease taxes and increase our own ownership of the economy.
This article says that the implementation and retention of death duties has done more to contribute to the sale of Canadian assets to foreigners than any other factor. More would be gained toward maintaining Canadian ownership by modifying these, indeed by dispensing with them altogether, than any number of Canada Development Corporations. This article refers to the differences in government about whether to go ahead with the Canada Development Corporation, and apparently these differences do exist. This type of tax reduction, I feel, would have done a great deal to speed up the productive sector of the economy instead of running the risk of slowing it down and sending this country into
April 20, 1966

another deflationary period, which I do not believe we could risk.
[DOT] (4:40 p.m.)
In this regard I also think something might have been done by the government to decrease the tremendous debt load at the present time. Last year I believe we spent $1,180 million by way of paying for the cost of our national debt. On looking at a report issued by the Tax Foundation I find that the forecast is that our national debt will increase next year at a much more rapid rate than it increased last year. This means that we are going to find ourselves involved in an ever-increasing debt load which draws capital out of productive use and throws it into that kind of dead expenditure which is the cost of government. Debt charges during the coming fiscal year will amount to approximately $60 for every man, woman and child in the country, just for the national government alone.
I suggest that had the government adopted a policy which would slow down this increase in our national debt then we might have been doing something important toward giving the right kind of direction to the economy and speeding up its productive value. I think that the government is using a monetary policy at the present time which will work in the opposite direction from that which is intended. Because of this we stand in danger, as a result of this slow-down type of budget, of pushing the country into a deflationary economic situation which we all agree we do not want. Our need in Canada is not to hold back but to move ahead. The distribution of goods and services is a field in which we are only beginning to tap our potential. Smugly we pat ourselves on the back for being good businessmen while we rationalize our own trade deficits and slow down our production.
The disposing of surplusage is a narrow and old fashioned way of assessing our tremendous production potential. What about the many other countries which do not provide their people with enough to eat? What about the vast and continuing world markets for both primary and secondary products? The time has come to institute policies to bring about a freer sale of surplus commodities and to pioneer in the field of world-wide distribution of goods from wherever they are produced to wherever they are required. This is the challenge of the age so far as the international scene and our own national economy are concerned.

The Budget-Mr. Thompson
The Globe and Mail business section of today's issue carries a series of articles which illustrate the need for clear thought and action in relation to trade. The Prime Minister of Barbados speaking yesterday in Canada said that the 1926 Canada-West Indies trade agreement is hopelessly out of date. Then the Minister of Trade and Commerce talks about the necessity of increasing our trade with the Communists behind the Iron Curtain.
What are we doing in this regard, Mr. Speaker? Are we merely gauging our trade policies in certain parts of the world on surplus commodities, or are we gearing our trade policies to the real needs of the world and our ability to meet those needs? What real efforts are being made by the government to use trade as a means of providing lasting and realistic support for developing nations? The kind of imagination and the kind of policy which we in Canada need are to be found in a policy which will not slow down in any way, or cause the government to say that they must slow down, the productive capacity of our over-all economy.
In considering the proposed amendment to the Budget motion, Mr. Speaker, I would say that the amendment actually outlines the shortcomings of the policy of the Minister of Finance. Until we can aim our policies toward relieving these particular problems which are outlined in the amendment we are not going to have a satisfactory financial situation in this country.
Behind all of this is the need for bringing in a realistic monetary policy geared to the distribution of goods instead of geared to a debt system which holds back our potential productivity. We heard last night from the hon. member from Prince Edward Island about the pockets of poverty and the financial and economic situation which exists in that province, a state of affairs which can hardly be tolerated in an era of affluence such as the present. Therefore I cannot stress too strongly the danger of slowing down the economy and, instead of decreasing the cost of living or at least holding it steady, pushing ourselves into a truly deflationary period where there is not adequate capital to move what we are able to produce, with a resulting further upward spiral of living costs.
In closing I would again re-emphasize that we need to adapt our monetary policies to a greater degree of productivity and to hold back on those non-productive developments
April 20, 1966

The Budget-Mr. Leblanc which I think can be spread over a longer period of time. Such policies relate to trade, to the Bank of Canada, to the amendments which must be made to the Bank Act and to an over-all economic policy which is geared to expansion. At the same time it requires from the federal government leadership including tax reduction where necessary, bringing about an over-all production which will not just tend to hamper and to hinder the policies of some of the provinces but which will let all of the provinces work together and go forward with the type of expansion which the country needs. This is the kind of financial policy and the kind of Budget which 1 had hoped the Minister of Finance would bring down but which I do not think he has brought down. I think his present Budget will work to the detriment of the nation rather than toward the objective which he has outlined to the house.


Mitchell William Sharp: Mr. Speaker, may I ask the hon. member who has just spoken one question?


Mr. Deputy Speaker:: The time allotted to the hon. member has expired.


Mr. Fernand E. Leblanc (Laurier):: Mr. Speaker, the annual period of waiting and suspense in Canada is over since Tuesday, March 29, when the Minister of Finance (Mr. Sharp) announced to the Canadian people how he intends to levy the revenues required to administer the country during the fiscal year which began on April 1.
It goes without saying that the government's receipts must be sufficient to enable it to administer the country and also to make the necessary expenditures which, in many cases, are very important incentives in the national economy.
Every year, the period preceding the bringing down of the budget is marked by temerity, anxiety, anguish, speculation and all kinds of forecasts.
[DOT] (4:50 p.m.)
Editorial writers and economists vie with each other in setting forth the reasons which, in their personal opinion, justify a relief, a stabilization or an increase of the fiscal burden.
It is obvious that no budget could ever meet with unanimous approval in a country as diversified as Canada. However, most Canadian economists and editorial writers

have praised the first budget brought down by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Sharp), and I am glad to quote a few of their comments:
Ably presented document-the least partisan of all budget speeches heard in the Commons in recent years-clever innovations-appropriate budget-Mr. Sharp takes inflation seriously-expert budgetputting on the brakes-Mr. Sharp is a realist- cautious and conventional budget. If many have criticized certain measures contained in the budget, nobody rejected its general idea in order to maintain that the threat of inflation was imaginary- good doctor-in more ways than one, the Sharp budget is an act of faith.
I join with all these Canadians to commend the Minister of Finance for his courage in presenting such a budget that will ensure a continuing and progressive economic growth in this country.
I should like, Mr. Speaker, in this, my maiden speech on the budget, to briefly state to the house my concept of the relationship between government and private enterprise.
I am pleased to note that the present Liberal government favours private enterprise and provides the assistance required for complete development. Protecting private industry has always been a Liberal tenet.
One hundred or even 50 years ago, most people could live blissfully unaware of political crises in provincial or federal capitals. Today, if politics are ailing, economic and social pursuits are also affected. In the twentieth century, the state exerts a constant influence on the happiness and well-being of every businessman and individual, whereas in the nineteenth century, private initiative enjoyed complete freedom and the state simply acted as a referee between the parties.
In certain areas of the world in the twentieth century, under full socialism, private initiative is completely suppressed and taken over by the state. In Canada, our infinitely varied and mixed system must be maintained and I believe the system is perfectly justified by current economic conditions.
These days, it is not easy to find a clear and satisfactory definition of private enterprise, because under present conditions of our modern life, all economic systems are unavoidably restricted one way or another. As a rule, however, these restrictions should not, in any case, discourage private initiative or destroy freedom of action. I feel that I should quote to hon. members what His Holiness Pope John XXIII had to say about this in his encyclical Mater et Magistra. His Holiness said, and I quote:
At the outset, it should be affirmed that, in economic affairs, first place is to be given to the
April 20, 1966

private initiative of individual men who, either working by themselves, or with others in one fashion or another, pursue their common interests.
In this modern and complex world of business, it seems to me the state should co-ordinate the various forces and merely complement private enterprise, not replace it. By always echoing the claims of part of the population, it is easy for the state to forget the importance of free enterprise in the national economy. The state must not listen to the well-meaning who would like to refashion society through state intervention in economic affairs. The state must, on the contrary, fulfil with competence and dispatch its duty as legislator and, up to a point, as supervisor. The state and private enterprise must cooperate in a spirit of progress. The state must never forget that man is not made for the glorification of the state, but that the state exists for the glorification of man; and we, as legislators, must seek to bring the capitalist system to serve the whole population.
The role of the government in a competitive system, such as we have in this country, is to ensure the maintenance of conditions favourable to private initiative. To what extent the state should intervene to discourage that private initiative which made possible the economic progress all Canadians are enjoying at the present time is the big question mark.
Mr. N. R. Crump, president of the C.P.R., stated as follows at the 36th Annual Convention of the Canadian Chambers of Commerce:
Free enterprise has been the basic factor in Canadian development. Business growth, as far as the public is concerned, may be due to the particular situation of Canada as compared to other countries. For a country which had no future either economically (because of American inducements) or politically (because of a diffuseness inherent in bilingualism and biculturalism), Canada, nevertheless, accomplished some remarkable achievements.
The Canadian government should, with foresight, establish a clear economic policy creating a climate favourable to investments. It should stimulate, co-ordinate and develop the sense of responsibilities, the love of work and savings, but never try to absorb or destroy creative energy and the sense of responsibilities. In North America, as you know, private enterprise created the highest standard of living in the world, even if it has not yet completely eliminated poverty and unemployment; and Canada, like the United States, should be a bulwark of private enterprise.
Suggested National Indian Day
Therefore, it must set up a list of priority for its expenditures in order to ensure its participation in the improvement of the competitive situation in our Canadian economy, because its initiatives and its legislation affect the whole population; it can have a determining effect on our industrial expansion, by using wisely its tremendous purchasing power.
The state must co-operate with the public and private sectors. It must exercise a wise control, based on the general interest and with the experience of the private sector, in order to make its initiatives more dynamic and efficient. I have confidence in the type of co-operation which has always existed in Canada between government and private enterprise, and I earnestly hope to see the continuation of this type of co-operation, so that our country may attain full economical development. The government must continue to assist our industry in order to create activities liable to bring about other satellite activities. It must continue to promote the expansion of Canadian enterprise through an acceleration of its program of industrial research and its program of services for technical consultations. It must also continue to use the tax factor.
You will all agree with me when I say that the intervention of the state is obvious, at the present time, but that such intervention must necessarily be restricted to areas and a method of operation-


Mr. Depuiy Speaker:: Order, please. I
apologize for interrupting the hon. member but as it is now five o'clock the house will proceed to the consideration of private members' business as listed on today's order paper, namely, notices of motions and public bills.


CANADIAN CENTENNIAL
Robert Muir: That, in the opinion of this house, the government should take into consideration the advisability of appointing a day during the course of our centennial year as a "National Indian Day", to mark the presence among us of our first citizens and to recognize their outstanding contributions to our national life.
[DOT] (5:00 p.m.)
He said: At the outset, Mr. Speaker, I advise hon. members that I do not intend to
April 20. 1968

Suggested National Indian Day speak for long on this resolution. This will give other members a greater opportunity to take part in the discussion. I would express the hope that other speakers will not take up too much time, and thereby talk out the resolution.
This resolution may seem strange to some who have never investigated or appreciated the role which the Canadian Indian has played in our nation. There are probably very few of us who realize that there are more than 200,000 Canadians of Indian descent in our nation, in other words, one in every hundred, and that their numbers are increasing at a rate greater than the national average. In the years before and since nationhood the Indian has, I feel, been misused and abused by those of other origins who have had the responsibility of determining policies for our successive governments. Some may say: "That is just a cliche; every once in a while someone gets up and says that." I am not in the habit of talking in this manner but I sincerely hold the views I am expressing on this subject.
At this stage in Canada's development, when every nationality in our population appears to desire a unique position for its contribution, there is no group of individuals which stands higher in my estimation than the Canadian Indians. It is for this reason that I propose we should have a national Indian day in our centennial year.
It has been my privilege since my election to the House of Commons in 1957, and even before, to have been associated with those who make up the Indian community in my constituency and to realize their determination to make Canada a better place in which to live, to realize their dedication and loyalty to our nation. This is exemplified by the fact that during the first world war every eligible man of the Micmacs of Cape Breton Island volunteered to fight for his country in time of peril. Further, in the second world war many of the Indian people from my constituency and throughout Canada served with distinction in our armed forces overseas.
I have been concerned to learn of the discrimination and neglect that this race has been forced to suffer during our years of nationhood. It is not uncommon to hear people say that the Indians are lazy and slovenly, that they do not wish to help themselves. I have heard this said by white people, but I do not agree. I condemn this line of thinking and I condemn those who say such things. In any race one will find people who are lazy,


people who are slovenly and who do not wish to help themselves. I am glad to see that the thinking of Canadians is slowly changing, that we are getting away from the attempt to transform these people into "white men", as it were, and beginning to develop a pride in them and a recognition of their rights.
If we hope to develop the Indians into a well-adjusted community with pride in their cultural heritage we must continue to act along the lines recently announced by the Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources (Mr. Laing) when he produced a program estimated to cost the federal government in excess of $100 million over the next five years. Undoubtedly some people will be shocked at the size of the amount which the minister has indicated is necessary for the provision of better housing, water, sanitation facilities, electrification and improved roads in the Indian communities throughout this country. But this shock could lead to a reexamination of the degree of neglect the Indians have had to suffer during the last 100 years because governments were unwilling to recognize the just claims made on them and provide the consideration which the Indians demanded but did not receive. At this point let me commend the minister and the government on this forward step. I hope there will be many more to follow.
I should also like to commend the extension department of St. Francis Xavier University, the laymen and the clergy who have been doing tremendous work since 1957 in my own area of Cape Breton in the field of community development and in other matters in co-operation with government.
A national Indian day will not in my opinion eliminate in any way the inequities which exist in our nation so far as Indians are concerned. But it would, I believe, add luster and honour to the race and focus public attention on the tremendous contribution which Indians have made toward the development of our country. I do not suggest that this should be another "national apple day" or celebration of that kind. I suggest this be made truly a national Indian day, a day upon which all the people in Canada would recognize our Indian brothers in a proper manner.
I mentioned a few moments ago the contribution which has been made by the Indian people. There are some who might wonder what this contribution has been. It is not generally well known that any contribution of significance has been made. Indeed, if one
April 20. 1966	COMMONS
were to inquire of most Canadians they would probably indicate that according to their understanding the Indians are a drain on the federal treasury, a problem everyone would like to eliminate if only someone would suggest an easy solution, one which would not cost too much money or take too much time. This attitude is not in keeping with the facts and we need only look at some examples of the kind of man the Indian population of this nation has been able to produce. I should like to name just a few. Many of these people will not be quickly associated with the Indian communities. Indeed, some Canadians would be much more anxious to classify them as white men.
In the Senate we have Senator Gladstone who was outstanding as a leader in Alberta, I understand, before he became a senator and was a prosperous rancher. In the British Columbia legislature we had Frank Calder. I am glad to hear the hon. member for Skeena (Mr. Howard) say he is still a member of that legislature. In Ottawa we have had for many years Dr. G. C. Monture, a distinguished civil servant and world authority on mineral resources development who at the present time is an adviser to the Atlantic Development Board. There is Jack Beaver, a nuclear engineer; Leonard S. Marchand, the first Indian ever to be appointed to the personal staff of a minister of the Crown; Mrs. Mildred Gott-friedson who in 1963 was selected mother of the year and, from the Eskasoni Band in my own constituency, a number of young men and women who have shown promise of making further contributions of significance. Among them are John Lewis who received a $1,500 scholarship to study engineering at St. Francis Xavier University, Joan Johnson who received a scholarship to Mount St. Bernard College and Janet Morris, now working in the civil service here in Ottawa who was chosen "Miss Indian Affairs Branch" for 1965.
I should also mention Miss Kahn-Tineta Horn, an outspoken and talented model; Dr. Ahab Spence, a clergyman, the first Indian to receive the degree of doctor of law; well known artists such as Gerald Tailfeathers and George Clutesi, and a great number of clergymen, lawyers doctors, dentists, school teachers, nurses, stenographers, hairdressers as well as members of a variety of other trades and professions. At this time of the year perhaps it is fitting to give special recognition to George Armstrong, a Mohawk Indian who has been an outstanding hockey player, a man who has gained a special status
DEBATES	4089
Suggested National Indian Day by being selected as captain of his team and who has always proven to be a gentleman both on and off the ice.
As I say, it is my hope that the government and all hon. members will give serious consideration to the merits of my proposal. It is definitely non-partisan in character and I believe there will be no dispute among members of the various parties in the house as to the value of the action I propose.
[DOT] (5:10 p.m.)
I have taken only a few short minutes in which to deal briefly with the resolution before us and the aims intended for it. My purpose has been to allow an opportunity for those who wish to speak on the resolution to do so while still enabling us to conclude our discussion before the time allotted for the private members' hour expires at six o'clock, at which point we could possibly vote on this motion. It is my hope the government will take the unique step of saying the resolution can be adopted today and that the necessary action will be taken, in keeping with the commendable announced intentions of the Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources, to set aside one day during our one hundredth year to give Canada's Indians the recognition they deserve.


Mr. Enns:: Would the hon. member permit a question? What action does he envisage which might properly take place on such a day? I ask this question in support of the resolution; it is not my intention to be critical in any way. What steps does he think can be taken so that the whole country can properly recognize this day? Does he visualize using the services of television and other media?


Robert Muir: I have many suggestions in mind and I would be pleased to outline them once the resolution has been adopted. The hon. member mentioned the news media-radio, television and the press. I think we should devote that day to the Indian people and take the opportunity to do a proper public relations job on behalf of the Indian people. We should explain, as I have tried to do in a few short minutes, what has been done by the Canadian Indians and the contribution they have made. This is a function which could be performed right across this country from one end to the other. I think this should be done in a serious way as an annual event to instil into the minds of the Canadian people regard for the traditions and culture of the Indians and an
April 20, 1966

Suggested National Indian Day awareness of the part they have played in our history and which I believe they will play increasingly in the future.


Siegfried John Enns: Would the hon. member agree that the Indians themselves should be allowed to take the initiative in planning such a day and that the government should be invited to lend some financial support in the promotion of these activities?


Robert Muir: Certainly. I think the Indian people, possibly the national advisory Indian commission, should be consulted on all phases of this proposal. We should certainly work in close co-operation with them and I believe the government should definitely provide funds for a project of this type.


Mr. Ian Watson (Chaleauguay-Huniingdon-Laprairie):: Mr. Speaker, I rise to express support for the initiative which has been shown by the hon. member for Cape Breton North and Victoria (Mr. Muir) in putting forward this resolution. I believe this is indicative of the complete support which he will find for his resolution among members of all parties. I think his idea is an excellent one. Perhaps, as has been suggested by the Canadian Indian Youth Council, we might incorporate a national Indian day as the culmination of a national Indian week.
A national Indian week would be a buildup and would focus attention on activities which I believe should be spread over a few days because all of them could not be packed into a single day. It should become an annual event and our centennial would provide us with reason to initiate it next year.
I have received a couple of suggestions about the timing of such a week. It seems that the second or third week of August would be the most satisfactory time each year. For example, during that period this year the National Indian Council will hold its annual conference, and about the same time there will be the Fort Qu'Appelle powwow. I think the various Indian tribal and provincial organizations could co-ordinate their activities around such a proposed national Indian week.
Quite frankly I prefer the idea of a national Indian week because it would arouse more attention than a single day's events. There are other reasons for suggesting a period of a week. Many exhibitions are held in various parts of Canada around the middle of August

and they would provide a good setting for many Indian activities. There could be exhibitions of Indian handicrafts and dancing, but more than that the exhibitions would provide meeting places for Indians all across Canada. [DOT] (5:20 p.m.)
Personally, I should like to see more stress placed on the future role of young Indians in Canada. I think we tend to stress the past too much when we speak about our Indians; it is the future which certainly is most important. With most of our Indian population under the age of 25 I think it is essential that national Indian day or national Indian week be used to provide our Indian youngsters who are just about to emerge into the Canadian mainstream of life with some idea of how they can fit into this life.
Since I have indicated my support for the proposal of the hon. member for Cape Breton North and Victoria, I would hope that he and other members would support an idea which has been circulating among various Indian groups in Canada for some time now. I refer to the formation of a national Indian dance troupe. There is no question in my mind but that such a dance troupe could bring about a flowering of Indian talent in Canada. If it were well run I think it could become selfsufficient fairly quickly and at least at the international level I think it could attain a fame which perhaps even our national ballet could not.
In the minds of most Europeans Canada is still associated with Indians more than the United States is, and I believe this is a good thing. Some people think it is a poor image for Canada to have in Europe but I think the reverse is true. I believe it is an excellent thing and we should capitalize on it. I believe an Indian dance troupe most certainly could act in the role of a Canadian ambassador abroad and would stir even more interest in our country among Europeans.
In my own constituency where Caugh-nawaga and St. Regis reserves are located, because of the world exhibition in Montreal the centennial year naturally is creating much interest. There are now fairly well advanced plans at Caughnawaga to receive Indians from across Canada. A residential village is planned and the people of Caughnawaga hope to play host to Indians from across Canada who will be attending the world exhibition and participating in it.
A month or two ago I was extemely happy to discover that our government had decided
April 20, 1966	COMMONS
to invest a substantial sum of money in an Indian pavilion at the world exhibition site. The amount mentioned in the announcement is approximately $1 million. I am confident this pavilion will do honour to all our Indian citizens and I am sure it will be one of the most visited places at our world exhibition. The show promises to be top notch. It' I am not mistaken, we will have Indians from every province in Canada including representatives from British Columbia with their famous totem poles. We will have exhibitions of the varying cultures which exist among our Indian population in Canada. All in all I am confident the pavilion will be one of the smash hits of the 1967 world exhibition, and I am extremely happy that the government has decided to go along with the idea of building a pavilion.
I think the most important thing which will result from the creation of a national Indian day is that it will help to stimulate self-pride and help preserve the various cultures which exist among our Indian population. Over the years we have heard a great number of solutions proposed in respect of the problems which beset our Indian people. The solution which continues to come forward in one form or another is complete assimilation and integration into our society, with the disappearance of the reserve system.
I certainly think it is to the advantage of our Indians if they are integrated into our economic way of life and this necessarily implies social adaptation and integration on their part. This is a process which has been going on gradually for a long time. The explosive growth in the population of Indians now necessitates much more rapid economic and social integration.
What the Indians fear and what often turns them against this necessary social and economic integration is that their culture too will be integrated and assimilated and therefore disappear. This is a justifiable fear. It is for this reason that I personally favour the retention, at least in southern Quebec and southern Ontario where I know the situation, of the reserve system because I believe it is only within the reserves that there lies any hope of cultural preservation. The creation of an Indian day for Canada would contribute to this necessary cultural preservation. It is this problem above all which I think concerns so many of the educated and articulate young Indians who now are emerging from our educational system and who are taking their part in the mainstream of Canadian life.
DEBATES	4091
Suggested National Indian Day [DOT] (5:30 p.m.)
It would be my hope that the creation of a national Indian day would contribute to the self-pride and self-confidence which our Indian people must have if they are to preserve their culture and be able to enter into the mainstream of life. There certainly is no lack of self-confidence among the Indian people of Caughnawaga or St. Regis whom I represent. I think there is a lack of self-confidence among Indian people in other parts of Canada. This is probably the thing that holds Indians back from playing a full role in our society and economy. I believe that the Canadian government in its policies toward Indians over the years is in large part responsible for this lack of self-confidence. The paternalism which guided the policies of the Indian affairs branch until very recently did far more harm than good to our Indian people. I believe that if they had been left completely on their own for 75 years up to 1963 our Indian people would have been far better off.
However, Mr. Speaker, this paternalism has come to an end. The head of the department is, I think, an excellent man and the budget of the department has recently been more than doubled. I am fully confident that in the next few years the so-called Indian problem in Canada will largely disappear and we will see a full flowering of Indian culture throughout this country.
There is one other point I wish to make. I hope this matter is not open to criticism too much longer but another measure that continues to hold back our Indian population is the Indian Act. I do not believe that anywhere in Canada are the inadequacies of the Indian Act more evident than in its application to the reserve at Caughnawaga. Here is a reserve that is part of Montreal suburbia; yet the people living there are subject to the same rules and regulations that apply to marshland Indians living in the James Bay area or east or west of Hudson Bay.
The application of this act to Indians living on a reserve such as Caughnawaga just does not make any sense. It is essential that the Department of Indian Affairs and the government now move rapidly to alter the Indian Act radically. In fact, I think the whole thing should be thrown out and we should start anew with an act that can be applied to southern reserves and those in less developed areas in which our Indian people reside.
April 20, 1966

Suggested National Indian Day Certainly the present act is completely outdated so tar as the people I represent are concerned. The act is holding back development in my area because we find, for example, that our local Indians are unable to have their own police force, they are unable to set up a municipal type government that will serve them so much better than the present one, they are unable really to take over control of their own reserve, which in the case of my constituency would be the best solution. Caughnawaga is quite capable of looking after its own affairs but the present Indian Act prevents the Indians there from so doing.
It is my hope that with wholesale changes in the Indian Act, with the change in emphasis from paternalism to self-help, with stress on a national Indian day, a national Indian week, stress on the richness of the Indian culture that exists in this country, we will very soon have a completely different Indian in this country. We will have an Indian who will feel completely self-confident but will remain completely Indian, one who will be able to go out into our economy and earn a living that is as good as that of any other Canadian citizen but will at the same time feel free to go back and enjoy the life, the hunting and fishing on his own reserve. We will have an Indian who can combine the best of both worlds. His world is a good one but the world in which we live is a good one too and there must be some adjustment between the two.
I am confident that the Canadian Indian is capable of finding the role that will enable him to enjoy the best of both worlds. It is my earnest hope, and one that I am confident is shared by all hon. members, that not only will our Indian peoples be able to preserve their various cultures but as they assume a full role in our economic and social life there will occur a flowering of the many Indian cultures in Canada in a way that will enrich our national fabric.


Mr, Frank Howard (Skeena):: Mr. Speaker, after listening to the long dissertation of the hon. member for Chateauguay-Huntingdon-Laprairie (Mr. Watson) I wonder whether enough time is available for a vote on this motion. I think it is imperative that this motion, if no other during this parliament, should be the subject of definitive action by parliament by way of a formal vote on a private member's motion indicating what I [Mr. Watson (Chateauguay-Huntingdon-Lapralrie) .1

hope will be our unanimous support for the principle and concept of the motion.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Mr. Howard:: The concept of a national Indian day perhaps had its origin among the native Indian peoples on March 4 and 5, 1965, when at a meeting of the Indian advisory committee to the Centennial Commission the idea was proposed by Mr. Guy Williams who was then and is now the president of the Native Brotherhood of British Columbia. I think it is appropriate and coincidental that Mr. Williams is in Ottawa today and is in fact a guest of the House of Commons in the gallery, together with three extremely attractive, young native Indian ladies.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Frank Howard: In the past few years there has been a growing interest among nonIndian people in the affairs of the native Indian population of Canada. There is certainly a growing and developing interest among members of parliament. I have noticed a decided change in that more members have in recent years paid attention to and spoken about Indian affairs than was the case just six or eight years ago. There is also a growing interest by native Indian people in their own affairs, in their own well being, their own stature and progress. This is excellent, because we all know that only from among and within any group of people will come the leaders of that group. They will not come from outside but from inside.
[DOT] (5:40 p.m.)
I think the history of the development of Canada shows, even to one who has read it scantily, that our development as a nation is very closely interwoven with the history, development and culture of our native Indian peoples in all parts of the country and that the two are inextricably mixed together in the fabric of this nation. Even though I believe there must be unanimous support for this motion, in my opinion the best way we can, in the words of the motion itself, "recognize their outstanding contributions to our national life" is not exclusively by a national day, a national week or participation in our centennial year. Canada could give them recognition by doing everything possible to help the development of self-government amongst our native Indian people, by doing everything possible to bring about the time when there is no Indian Act, no more
April 20, 1966

government bureaucracy to stand in the way of progress so much needed by our native people.
We can develop recognition of their outstanding contributions as individuals by reading a little of the history of our native people. If we read that history we will understand and admire their culture, thir philosophy and their way of life. Believe me, if the members of this House of Commons had even half of the philosophic concept of life that our native people had years ago, we would not have nearly the trouble we have within this nation. They had a philosophy, an understanding and a concept of life that far surpasses anything we have been able to develop. We need not be patronizing or paternal in our attitude any longer. Rather we should accept this group of people because they are human beings and a part of life on this planet. They are not just a particular group of people with a particular ethnic background.
It has become commonplace, Mr. Speaker, in this parliament and in others which preceded it for motions in the names of private members to be talked out, in other words, not allowed to come to a vote. So far as the New Democratic party is concerned, and I have consulted with our members who are here, we are desirous of having this motion come to a vote. We have only one person to make a few comments, namely, myself, and we hope other members will be equally brief in their remarks. This is not the time for parliament to be speaking with a forked tongue, as the saying goes amongst some native tribes; this is the time for parliament to show by action that we do not only talk in favour of the recognition of the cultural development of the native people but we act as well.
I sincerely urge that even if parliament votes upon no other motion in the name of a private member, no other private member's public bill, no other business of a private member, we would be well advised to vote on the motion before us now. Then the native people would know we have respect for their contribution and that we recognize fully their historical development and cultural contribution to Canadian society.


Mr. A. B. Patterson (Fraser Valley):: Mr. Speaker, I am very happy to rise at this time and speak in support of the motion introduced by the hon. member for Cape Breton North and Victoria (Mr. Muir). I note that the objective hoped to be achieved by the motion is the marking of the presence among us of 23033-259
Suggested National Indian Day our first citizens and the recognition of their outstanding contribution to our national life. I believe there is an increasing awareness amongst the general population of Canada of the existence of the native people and a corresponding desire to atone in some measure for the attitude which we in general have taken toward them, either consciously or unconsciously, in the past.
The motion before us has to do not with our responsibilities to the native people from an economic point of view but with a recognition of their cultural contribution and the importance of this human resource in our midst. As we think of the motion before us I believe we must recognize the very important contribution that has been made to Canadian life by the native people. We must recognize also the fact that the native people are able to make an invaluable contribution to the various segments of our economy in which they move. This has been pointed out by the mover of the motion in referring to the number of native people who have made an outstanding success in their chosen vocation, profession or trade.
I believe that the adoption of this motion and the proclaiming of a national Indian day will not only bring to these people a sense of satisfaction through knowing that we do appreciate their contribution and recognize their abilities but it will assist the non-Indian population of Canada to have a greater appreciation for and and a greater knowledge of the contribution the Indian people are making. I am therefore not going to take further time and thereby contribute to talking out this measure. I simply want to indicate clearly that we are in full support of this motion and we hope we will have an opportunity of so indicating by voting on it before six o'clock.


Albert Béchard: Mr. Speaker, first of all, I want to congratulate the mover of this notice of motion stressing the impotrance of the contribution of the Indians to the building of our country, since they were its first inhabitants.
We will celebrate next year the centennial of our country's confederation and the Centennial Commission, which is responsible for the preparation of the various programs and celebrations which will mark in 1967 the various events of that period of our history, wants to stress the importance of each of the
April 20, 1966

Suggested National Indian Day ethnic groups which make up our country. That is why the Centennial Commission looks very favourably on this motion moved by the hon. member for Cape Breton North and Victoria (Mr. Muir).
In March 1965, the Centennial Commission met in Ottawa with 18 Indian leaders from all parts of Canada to get their advice on the participation of the Indians to the centennial celebrations. One of the most important recommendations made by that group reads as follows:
That a National Indian Day be appointed;
Considering that a National Indian Day would recognize the contribution made by the Indians to the Canadian civilization.
In November 1965, another national meeting was held in Winnipeg and the Indian leaders from eight provinces attended. Even if the main subject of discussion dealt with the Indian folklore, as reflected today in Indian festivals, reconstitutions and powwows, and their integration in the centennial celebrations, one of the resolutions passed at that time provided for the proclamation of a National Indian Day. The resolution was sent to the Indian National Advisory Council, whose members are appointed by the Indians throughout Canada, with the recommendation that the Indian Affairs Branch be invited to implement it. The Indian National Advisory Council met again at the beginning of January 1966 in Ottawa and strongly recommended to the Indian Affairs Branch to create a National Indian Day.
Quite recently, the Centennial Commission once again met in Ottawa, on April 18 and 19, 1966, with 22 Indian leaders from eight provinces to follow up the work undertaken at the conference of March 1965, in order to evaluate the progress made with regard to the projects devised by the Indians for the centennial.
At that meeting it was suggested that a National Indian Day be proclaimed. Everyone agreed that since the treaties with the Indians were signed during the reign of Queen Victoria, the most appropriate and most significant date would be May 24. It was therefore unanimously agreed to include in the minutes of the meeting a request to the Centennial Commission and the Indian Affairs Branch to support the recommendation to the effect that May 24 be recognized throughout Canada as National Indian Day.
That recommendation is now being studied by the Indian Affairs Branch as well as by the officials of the Centennial Commission.

[DOT] (5:50 p.m.)


Mr. Deputy Speaker:: The hon. member for Parkdale.


Frank Howard: Mr. Speaker, could I rise on a question of privilege? We have had representative spokesmen from each of the parties except the Ralliement Creditistes and two spokesmen from the Liberals. Could we not dispense with further comment-there are only five minutes left-in order that a matter both vital and important might be voted on and parliament given an opportunity to express its opinion?


Mr. Deputy Speaker:: Order. I recognize the point made by the hon. member for Skeena but the Chair has no authority to curtail debate. The hon. member for Parkdale.


Robert Muir: Mr. Speaker, before the hon. member commences his remarks may I at this time appeal to the minister who is present in the house-


Mr. Deputy Speaker:: Order, please.


Robert Muir: -and to the government to allow this matter to come to a vote.


Mr. Deputy Speaker:: Order, please. I
should point out to the hon. member for Cape Breton North and Victoria that if he speaks now he will close the debate.


Frank Howard: Go ahead.


Mr. Stanley Haidasz (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources):: Mr. Speaker, I welcome this opportunity to join with my colleagues in this house in expressing my tribute to the Indian people


Robert Muir: You can express it by voting.


Stanley Haidasz: -for their contribution to the development of this country. They have played a commendable role in the history of Canada and should therefore be recognized especially by their fellow Canadians at this time when we are on the eve of the centennial of the confederation of Canada and making preparations for our one hundredth birthday.
I want to join with hon. members who have spoken before me in the tributes which they have paid not only to the Indian people and their leaders but also to the present government and the Minister of Northern
April 20, 1966

Affairs and National Resources (Mr. Laing) for having launched a massive program to improve the economic and social conditions of the Indian people. I refer, Mr. Speaker, in particular to the program which will devote $112 million in the next five years to this end, as announced by the Superintendent General of Indian Affairs, the Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources.
I also wish to stress the fact that the government will be organizing a special program to honour the Indian people, their culture and their contribution to the history of Canada by erecting an Indian pavilion at Expo '67. This has already been announced in a special press release last month, and I am happy to state that the appointment of the chief of the Caughnawaga Indian Band Council has been approved as the Commissioner General of the Indians of Canada pavilion at Expo '67. Chief Delisle's primary responsibility will be to ensure that the Indians of Canada pavilion will be truly representative of the views and aspirations of the Indians and will give visitors from across Canada and from the entire world a faithful picture of Indian life and culture in this country.


Robert Muir: Would the hon. member permit a question? May I ask him how many of our Indian people in British Columbia, in Nova Scotia and all across the country who are not close to Montreal will see this pavilion or have any part in it? It is a very good thing,
Suggested National Indian Day but how many of our Indian people will participate? The hon. member has one minute left, so can we vote?


Stanley Haidasz: In the programs and projects organized by the centennial committee I am happy to state that there are several Indian Affairs projects across Canada not only contemplated but already approved by the Indian bands. For example, I should like to mention a pictorial history of the Canadian Indians and a joint Canada-United States Indian conference in the summer of 1967. An Indian editors' conference has already been held and there will be other Indian projects, such as Indian powwows and the famous Canadian Indians exhibit at the Canadian National Exhibition.


Frank Howard: Question.


Stanley Haidasz: All members have spoken in complimentary terms about the resolution presented to the house by the hon. member, and I have not heard any dissenting voice on this matter. However, Mr. Speaker, it is my opinion that this resolution should first of all be studied by the government and referred to the National Indian Advisory Board of Canada. May I call it six o'clock?


Mr. Deputy Speaker:: Order. The hour for the consideration of private members' business has expired.


[Stage Direction]
At six o'clock the house adjourned, without question put, pursuant to standing order.
4097
[Stage Direction]
Thursday, April 21, 1966