1964-02-19

Hon. Waller L. Gordon (Minister of Finance):: Mr. Speaker, in accordance with the requirements of the Financial Administration Act I have tabled today volumes I, II, and III, in English and in French, of the Public Accounts of Canada for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1963.
I have also tabled for the first time an abridged edition of the Public Accounts of Canada in English and in French. It is my belief that a wider distribution of some of the data contained in the public accounts will prove of value to those who desire information in summary form of the more significant aspects of the government's financial transactions for the fiscal year. I hope this abridged report will commend itself to hon. members and to the public, and that the practice introduced today will be followed in subsequent years.
I have also tabled the report, in English and in French, of the Auditor General of Canada for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1963.



LABOUR RELATIONS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Righi Hon. J. G. Diefenbaker (Leader of ihe Opposition):: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Prime Minister or the Minister of Labour, and ask whether either of them can explain how it is that Hal Banks is still in his position as head of the S.I.U., and whether there has been any report from the board of trustees in that connection.


Hon. A. J. MacEachen (Minister of Labour):: Mr. Speaker, as my right hon. friend realizes, the authority for the management and control of the maritime transportation unions is vested in the board of trustees, and any course of action with respect to any officer or employee of any of the unions would be a matter for decision by the trustees.
With respect to the second part of my right hon. friend's question, I expect to 20220-2
receive a report of the trustees at an early date, which I will transmit to parliament as soon as I receive it.


John George Diefenbaker: If I might follow that up, Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the minister a question regarding a questionnaire the existence of which was denied by him on December 13 last, and subsequently denied again just before the end of the last session.
Now that we know the questionnaire actually went out I would like to ask the minister whether the information, or any of the information, contained in the questionnaire, or the information secured by the public relations firm which acts for the board of trustees, has been made available to any other union and, in particular, what foundation there is for the generally reported stand taken by various labour men that the seafarers' union membership has been raided as a result of information secured by the board of trustees.


Allan Joseph MacEachen: Mr. Speaker, I hesitate to add a further note of mystification to this particular subject of the questionnaire. It is true that I indicated to the house on at least one occasion, and maybe two occasions, that I had not seen any questionnaire and, further than that, that there had been no questionnaire. I based that on information provided me by the trustees. Subsequently the board of trustees issued a press statement indicating their intention to ask the seamen a series of questions.
To my present knowledge-and I saw the trustees during the recess-no questionnaire has gone out to the seamen from the board of trustees. I base that statement on conversations I had with the three trustees in Montreal. In view of what the hon. gentleman has stated today I will make a further request and ask whether in the interim any questionnaire has gone out. I have not seen any questionnaire, but if one has gone out I will provide information.


John George Diefenbaker: What about the rest of the question? Has any information been given by the board of trustees or by the public relations firm employed by the trustees as to the identity of any of the seamen in consequence of which raiding has taken place?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: I will be glad to ask for that information.

Inquiries of the Ministry


Mr. David Orlikow (Winnipeg Norih):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct a question to the Minister of Labour. Is it the position of the government that the maritime transportation unions trustee board is a quasi judicial board, or is it an administrative board with power to act on the basis of facts and recommendations of other tribunals and bodies such as the Norris commission and the Canadian Labour Congress?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: Mr. Speaker, I would hesitate to give what appears to be a legal opinion on this matter. The law is there, and the trustees are operating under the law that was passed by this parliament.


David Orlikow: A supplementary question. Are they acting under the law as they interpret it, or as this parliament interprets it?


EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. T. C. Douglas (Burnaby-Coquiilam):: In
view of the statement made by the foreign secretary of the United Kingdom while in Ottawa, could I ask the Prime Minister if he would give the house an assurance that no Canadian troops will be sent to Cyprus unless they are under the aegis of the United Nations? Will the right hon. gentleman also assure the house that before any such action is taken there will be full consultation in the house, and the approval of this chamber sought?


Right Hon. L. B. Pearson (Prime Minister):: In view of the hon. gentleman's question and the interest which this whole matter has aroused, perhaps I could make a short statement which would answer the question and possibly add one or two other pieces of information.
As far as sending Canadian troops to Cyprus is concerned, no decision has been taken by the government. It may be premature to speculate on the circumstances surrounding a possible Canadian contribution to a peace keeping force at a time when the whole matter is under discussion in the security council of the United Nations.
It is clear, however, that before the Canadian government would decide to provide a force for peace keeping purposes certain requirements would have to be met. First, we would have to be satisfied that the composition and terms of reference of the force were such as to contribute to peace and stability in the area. Second, we would not wish the commitment of the force to be of

indefinite duration. In addition, we would wish to ensure that the choice of a mediator and his terms of reference would be such as to lead to the expectation that a solution to the dispute in Cyprus might be found within a reasonable time. Third, the arrangements would, of course, have to be acceptable to the government of Cyprus in accordance with its constitutional procedure. Fourth, there should be an association of the force with the United Nations. Finally, if a request is made involving the use of substantial numbers of Canadians abroad, we would bring the matter before parliament before any final decision is taken.


Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas: Would the Prime Minister care to clarify exactly what he means by the phrase "an association with the United Nations"? Would any Canadian peace keeping force which might be sent be under the control and direction of the United Nations?


Lester Bowles Pearson: The matter is under consideration today by the United Nations security council, and I would not wish to say anything which might complicate that consideration. The hon. gentleman knows, of course, that there could be a connection with the United Nations security council which would make the operation of any force quite impossible. On the other hand, there could be an association which would be most important and valuable and which would permit the operation of a peace keeping force. It is that kind of association we would support.


Mr. R. N. Thompson (Red Deer):: Could the Prime Minister or the Secretary of State for External Affairs make any statement to the house which would throw new light on the situation as it is developing around the Cyprus crisis, or on the arrangements which are presently being worked out in the United Nations with regard to it?


Hon. Paul Marlin (Secretary of Stale for External Affairs):: The Prime Minister has suggested that I deal with this question. The security council began its consideration of this matter yesterday afternoon. The council met again this morning when statements were made by the delegations of the Soviet union and the United States. I understand there may be before the security council a recommendation of the secretary general, as well as proposals put forward by the United Kingdom. Until these have been disposed of there is nothing more that can be said now.


Robert Norman Thompson: A supplementary question. This is related only indirectly to the subject we have been discussing, but I am sure we are all concerned about it. Is there anything

which the Secretary of State for External Affairs may have to tell us in relation to the Gabon crisis?


Paul Joseph James Martin: There is nothing I can usefully say at this point.


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Real Caouetle (Villeneuve):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Prime Minister.
Has Canada made representations to France since the recognition of the Peking government by the latter? If so, what is the nature of those representations?


Lester Bowles Pearson: Mr. Speaker, to my knowledge we have made no representations to the French government on this matter since the decision was taken.


Mr. Gerard Chapdelaine (Sherbrooke):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Secretary of State for External Affairs.
In view of recent events, is the government considering, independently of the position of the United States, recognizing red China?


Paul Joseph James Martin: The hon. member knows very well that Canada is a sovereign state; her government will come to a decision in that matter, taking into account only what concerns Canada and what comes under its jurisdiction.


Gérard Chapdelaine: Is the Secretary of State for External Affairs in a position to tell this house where the negotiations stand in respect of this matter?


Paul Joseph James Martin: Mr. Speaker, I answered this question in this house scarcely three months ago, and there is nothing I can add.


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Gilles Gregoire (Lapointe):: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Secretary of State for External Affairs.
Inquiries of the Ministry
Can he tell us if there have been new developments or new talks between the government of Canada and that of Haiti concerning the recent deportation of Canadian Jesuit priests from that country?


Paul Joseph James Martin: Mr. Speaker, all I can say is that the 18 members of the Canadian jesuit mission were all deported from Haiti on February 12 because it was alleged that they had conceived a plan to overthrow the Haitian government. Before they left, I had requested the Canadian charge d'affaires in Port au Prince to hand over to the Haitian minister of foreign affairs a communication in which I declared that we could not accept vague charges to the effect that the mission's activity had been in any way irregular and pointed out that we were dissatisfied with his government's decision to deport missionaries who had been working for some ten years in the interest of the Haitian people. Moreover, on Thursday last I called the Haitian charge d'affaires in Ottawa to my office and told him I could not accept the charge of conspiracy against his government given as the reason for deporting the Canadian Jesuit missionaries. [Text]


Mr. Raymond Langlois (Megantic):: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question. Now that we know what the Secretary of State for External Affairs told the Haitian government, we would also like to know what they answered in reply.


Paul Joseph James Martin: Mr. Speaker, their answer was not satisfactory.


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. T. S. Barnett (Comox-Alberni):: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Fisheries. I would like him to tell the house whether	the	United	States	has agreed	toaccept the proclamation by Canada of the 12 mile territorial fishing limit with the base line drawn from headland to headland, that would include such waters as Queen Charlotte sound and the gulf of St. Lawrence, and whether	the	United	States	has agreed	to
accept some termination date for its so-called historic fishing rights?
Hon.	H.	J. Robichaud	(Minister	of
Fisheries): Mr. Speaker, four meetings have been held with the United States on this important question of the 12 mile limit. Details have still to be negotiated and I do not

Inquiries of the Ministry think this is the proper time to discuss those details, at least not until the negotiations are completed.


Thomas Speakman Barnett: May I ask a supplementary question. When does the minister expect these negotiations will be completed?


Mr. Robichaud:: We expect to complete the negotiations with the United States very soon, and we are already arranging negotiations with other interested countries.



NATIONAL GALLERY


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. Leon Balcer (Three Rivers):: Mr. Speaker, my question is intended for the Secretary of State.
Could he tell the house for what reason, other than political, Mr. Thomas Maher, of Quebec city, has been dismissed from his office as chairman of the national gallery?


Hon. Maurice Lamonlagne (Secretary of State):: Mr. Speaker, I am informed that Mr. Maher has not been dismissed from his position at the national gallery.


Léon Balcer: If he has not been dismissed, could the Secretary of State tell the house what happened exactly?


Maurice Lamontagne: Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member would be good enough to put his question on the order paper, I shall provide him with an answer.


John George Diefenbaker: Mr. Speaker, as a supplementary question to that asked by the hon. member for Three Rivers, I would ask the Secretary of State whether he is unaware of the fact that Mr. Maher was peremptorily and summarily removed from his position as chairman of the board of trustees of the national gallery.


Maurice Lamontagne: So far as I know, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Maher is still a member of the board.


John George Diefenbaker: Would the minister answer the question I asked? Does he know that Mr. Maher was summarily removed from his position as chairman?


Maurice Lamontagne: I do not think he was summarily removed.



DEFENCE PRODUCTION


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. D. S. Harkness (Calgary North):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to address a question to the Minister of Industry. Have any arrangements been made to continue the operation of the Canadian Pacific Air Lines repair facility at Calgary?


Hon. C. M. Drury (Minister of Industry):: No arrangements have been made, Mr. Speaker. As the volume of work which supported this facility in Calgary provided by the Department of National Defence has substantially declined, it is not possible to continue the operation of the C.P.A. maintenance base.


Douglas Scott Harkness: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. I wonder whether the minister has looked into the fact that a considerable number of R.C.A.F. aeroplanes in storage in southern Alberta will continue to need care and maintenance, and I have reason to believe that the C.P.A. repair facility at Calgary could do this more cheaply than if it were done in any other way.


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: Mr. Speaker, I do not think the information in the hands of the hon. member is quite correct. The present storage arrangements can be continued in their present locations much more economically than by moving them to Calgary.


Douglas Scott Harkness: Mr. Speaker, I wonder whether the minister would look into this whole question of what the cost would be in this connection. I doubt very much whether this has been done. I have another supplementary question. What plans, if any, have been made to provide alternative employment for the several hundred men who will lose their jobs as a result of closing out this facility?


Charles Mills (Bud) Drury: Mr. Speaker, I shall be glad to look again into the question of relative costs. In so far as the provision of alternative employment is concerned, there have been a number of conversations between representatives of the Department of Defence Production, the union concerned, the municipal authorities and other representatives from Calgary with a view to exploring all possible avenues of securing alternative employment.



PENSIONS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Stanley Knowles (Winnipeg North Centre):: Mr. Speaker, may I address a question to the Prime Minister. Will the Canada pension plan, which according to the speech from the throne is to be placed before us, be given high priority and proceeded with in the early days of the session.


Lester Bowles Pearson: Yes, Mr. Speaker.



REPORTED ARAB PRESSURE AGAINST SALES TO ISRAEL

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. M. L. Klein (Cartier):: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Trade and Commerce. In view of the fact that a number of Canadian firms, which in the interests of expanding Canadian export trade are desiring to sell Canadian products to the state of Israel, are being subjected to threats-


Some hon. Members:: Order.


Milton L. Klein: -of boycott by the Arab league if they continue to sell Canadian products to Israel, will the government come to the assistance of these Canadian firms, with a view to having these threatening practices removed?


Hon. Mitchell Sharp (Minister of Trade and Commerce):: Mr. Speaker, to our knowledge only a few Canadian firms have had their interests affected or threatened by the Arab boycott of Israel. If a Canadian firm is affected or likely to be affected, the firm's actions should be governed by its own policies and interests. Should a Canadian firm seek the assistance of the Canadian government we would certainly be prepared to consider what assistance might usefully and appropriately be provided in the circumstances pertaining thereto.



REQUEST FOR SUBVENTION ON ADDITIONAL


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Lawrence E. Kindi (Macleod):: I should like to ask the Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys when the coal operators and miners of the Crowsnest pass, who are waiting, may have an affirmative answer from this government concerning the subventions needed for the export of an additional 200,000 tons of coal to Japan.
Inquiries of the Ministry


Hon. J. P. Deschaieleis (Minister of Public Works):: I will bring this question to the attention of the minister and a reply will be given as soon as possible.



NATIONAL DEFENCE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hor.. Gordon Churchill (Winnipeg South Centre): Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of National Defence. Has any recovery been made of the very substantial quantities of arms and ammunition stolen in recent months from national defence property; and second, what steps are being taken by the minister to ensure adequate protection against the theft of arms and ammunition?
Hon. Paul Hellyer (Minister of Naiional Defence):: Mr. Speaker, perhaps I might be permitted to make a very brief statement on this subject. I share the concern of the house over recent armoury thefts. This is, of course, a worrisome situation.
Concerning the theft in Montreal, I directed the army to provide full support to other police forces, federal, provincial and municipal, in the investigation of the crime. The full resources of these organizations have been working on the case. As yet the stolen goods have not been recovered.
I also directed that appropriate action be taken to increase security measures at all military establishments at which weapons and ammunition were stored. At units where it is not feasible to provide armed guards, steps were taken to make weapons ineffective by removing their working mechanisms. Ammunition was removed and put in storage at protected depots. In the Montreal area, because of its special sensitivity, a company of the Royal 22nd regiment from Valcartier is providing armed protection.
Noranda is one of the units where it is not considered feasible to provide adequate round the clock protection to secure the building. The theft there demonstrated the wisdom of precautionary measures to secure the weapons by removing their working parts.
I fully realize the seriousness of this problem and its wider implications. In consequence I established a five man commission to consider all problems relating to security of defence installations, and directed them to report as soon as possible. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police graciously agreed to assist service representatives in their task. The terms of reference of this commission include the responsibility to categorize defence

Inquiries of the Ministry establishments and to make recommendations in respect of the degree of protection which should apply in each case.


Douglas Scott Harkness: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Will the minister tell us how much FN rifle ammunition was stolen from the armoury in Montreal? Also, and perhaps more important, can ammunition of this type for this rifle be bought commercially?


Paul Theodore Hellyer: I am sorry that I do not have that figure at hand, but I can get it for my hon. friend.



INQUIRY AS TO PRESENTATION OF WHITE PAPER

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. Marcel Lambert (Edmonton West):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of National Defence. In the light of the varying estimates as to when we are going to get the white paper on defence, can the minister now inform the house when he anticipates being able to release that document?


Paul Theodore Hellyer: Soon, Mr. Speaker.


Mr. Churchill:: That is what you said last fall.


Mr. W. B. Nesbitt (Oxford):: Mr. Speaker,
I should like to address a question to the Minister of National Defence. Is the minister aware that the Bomarc missile is now being exhibited in a museum of obsolete missiles at Cape Kennedy?


Paul Theodore Hellyer: Mr. Speaker, 1 was not aware that the Bomarc A, an earlier version of the Bomarc B, which was ordered for use in this country by the previous government, was on display there. If I am travelling in that vicinity I will have a look at it.



INQUIRY AS TO ALTERNATIVE TO FRIGATE CONSTRUCTION PROGRAM

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Lloyd R. Crouse (Queens-Lunenburg):: I should like to direct a question to the Minister of National Defence. In view of the unemployment that will be created in Halifax and in Nova Scotia generally by the cancellation of the general purpose frigate program, will the minister tell the house what alternative construction program he has that will be of benefit to the Nova Scotia shipbuilders?


Paul Theodore Hellyer: I do not think this is an appropriate question for orders of the day. First of all, I deny the allegation that there has been a reduction in employment in Halifax. I think the contrary is true. Second, in so far as 
future policy is concerned, if my hon. friend will contain himself for a few days I hope to be able to produce the white paper which will reveal future policy.


Mr. Donald Maclnnis (Cape Breton South):: I should like to ask the Minister of National Defence a supplementary question. He took exception to the statement about layoffs in Halifax. I wonder if the minister would care, later in the afternoon, to meet a person who was recently laid off and who visited my office this morning. He is now being assisted through the courtesy of the Minister of Labour. He has been laid off from the Halifax yard, and the minister can meet him this afternoon if he so wishes.



BAGOTVILLE, QUE.-INCREASE IN STRENGTH OF ESTABLISHMENT

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Maurice Cote (Chicoutimi):: Mr. Speaker,
I should like to direct a question to the Associate Minister of National Defence.
Is it true that the staff at the Bagotville air base will be increased by 300 airmen for the protection of nuclear warheads to be stored there soon?


Hon. Lucien Cardin (Associate Minisier of National Defence):: Mr. Speaker, I am unaware of the fact that the staff is to be increased by so many airmen but, at all events,
I shall inquire on that matter and inform my hon. friend.



ARTS, LETTERS AND SCIENCES SITE FOR NATIONAL CENTRE FOR PERFORMING ARTS

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. Paul Martineau (Pontiac-Temisca-mingue):: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Prime Minister. In view of the controversy surrounding the subject, I wonder whether the Prime Minister could bring the house up to date in regard to the latest development in respect of the choice of a site for the national centre for the performing arts?


An hon. Member:: Parliament hill.


Lester Bowles Pearson: Mr. Speaker, perhaps I could make a statement on this tomorrow in answer to my hon. friend. I should like to get the most up to date information.



UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. Michael Starr (Ontario):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to address a question to the

Minister of Labour. In view of the glaring omission from the throne speech of any reference to the Gill commission report, can the minister advise the house whether the government is contemplating or planning to implement any or all of that report during this session of parliament?


Allan Joseph MacEachen: Mr. Speaker, the answer really to the specific question is yes, but I want to tell my hon. friend that I did state last session that we would want to take action this session in this general field, and that view has not been changed.



FINANCE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. H. W. Herridge (Kootenay West):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct a question to the Minister of Finance in order to clear up a certain fogginess in the public mind. Is the minister correctly reported as giving his blessing to Premier Bennett's proposed bank of British Columbia?


Walter Lockhart Gordon: No, Mr. Speaker.



REQUEST FOR REMOVAL OF SALES TAX FROM AUTOMOTIVE EQUIPMENT

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. A. D. Hales (Wellington South):: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Finance. In view of the brief submitted to the minister by the automotive parts manufacturers association of Canada asking for the removal of the 11 per cent sales tax on jigs, dies and equipment generally, would the minister confirm or deny the report that this tax is to be removed?


Walter Lockhart Gordon: Mr. Speaker, I think it is a little early to make budget pronouncements.


John George Diefenbaker: I should like to ask a supplementary question. Did the minister advise any lumbermen in British Columbia recently that if they would just keep quiet they would not have to worry, that there would be changes made in the sales tax involving the removal of the 11 per cent tax?


Walter Lockhart Gordon: No, Mr. Speaker, the minister did not give such advice to anyone.
Inquiries of the Ministry INDUSTRY



CONSULTATION RESPECTING TAKING OVER OF LABATT BREWING COMPANY

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. R. W. Prittie (Burnaby-Richmond):: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Finance. Was the Department of Finance consulted at all in the matter of the takeover of the Labatt Brewing Company, and has the minister any new proposals designed to prevent this type of takeover?


Walter Lockhart Gordon: Mr. Speaker, neither the department nor the government was consulted, and there is no legislation that would prevent that kind of transaction taking place.


Robert William Prittie: A supplementary question. Can the minister tell the house if the apparently defunct Canada development corporation was designed to prevent this type of takeover?


Walter Lockhart Gordon: Mr. Speaker, the Canada development corporation was not designed to prevent takeovers. I might add, perhaps to answer another question in advance, that the proposal for the Canada development corporation has been and is under active consideration.


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh.


Walter Lockhart Gordon: The timing and nature of any legislation that may be required will be decided in the light of the report of the royal commission on banking and finance.


John George Diefenbaker: Another retreat.



TRENTON, N.S.    REQUEST FOR ORDER FOR RAILWAY CARS

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. H. Russell MacEwan (Pictou):: I have a question for the Minister of Transport. In view of the serious unemployment situation in Pictou county I wonder whether, further to the correspondence I have had with the minister, the hon. gentleman has yet received a report from the Canadian National Railways with regard to the possibility of a railway car order for the Eastern Car plant in that area?


Hon. J. W. Pickersgill (Minister of Transport):: I doubt whether there has yet been time for the railway company to give an answer, but I will prod them.



CANADIAN CENTENNIAL


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Thomas M. Bell (Saint John-Albert):: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Secre-

Inquiries of the Ministry tary of State. In view of the day to day controversy over New Brunswick's decision, and the fact that the New Brunswick legislature is now sitting, will the minister now state the basis for the centennial capital grants to the provinces?


Maurice Lamontagne: Mr. Speaker, the federal government has offered to contribute to a provincial project up to 50 per cent but not more than $2| million. Such project should preferably be of a cultural nature and in the provincial capital, but the authority which will select and initiate the project is the provincial government.


Thomas Miller Bell: May I take it from the minister's statement that this grant does not have to be taken up exclusively in the capital city and exclusively for cultural development?


Maurice Lamontagne: No; I said "preferably".


Mr.  R. Gordon L. Fairweaiher@Royal: supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. In the minister's statement of January 8, 1964, did he not suggest that New Brunswick might wish to build a cultural centre in Saint John, New Brunswick?


Maurice Lamontagne: It might, Mr. Speaker.


Mr. Fairweaiher:: Did the minister not say that?


Maurice Lamontagne: No, I do not think so. I wrote a letter to each provincial minister responsible for centennial projects, and I think the content of that letter was very clear indeed.



NORTHERN AFFAIRS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. L. J. Pigeon (Jolieile-L'Assompiion-Montcalm):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct a specific question in French to the Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources.

Since federal officials, as confirmed by Mr. Rene Levesque, have the Eskimos of Fort Chimo sign a petition objecting to the transfer of jurisdiction, can the minister state whether the administration of Eskimo affairs will remain under federal jurisdiction?


Hon. Arthur Laing (Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources):: Mr. Speaker, I want first of all to thank the hon. member for his courtesy in providing me with a copy of his question. In the light of the fact that we are meeting representatives of

the Quebec government tomorrow, I have prepared an answer which I propose to read.
In reply to the first part of the question, Mr. Speaker, no such petition was circulated by federal administrators and none was received by the minister. The provision by the federal government of schools, health services and other measures for the advancement of the Eskimo resident in the Ungava region of Quebec has been pursuant to a decision by the Supreme Court of Canada in 1939 that the federal government has the same special constitutional responsibility for Eskimos as it has for Indians.
The government of Quebec recently indicated a desire to provide the services that the federal government has been providing as a part of its general administrative responsibilities in the province. Any agreement with the province to this end would include conditions for the protection of the rights of the Eskimos, particularly in relation to schools.
The government of Canada is prepared to make such an agreement with Quebec. This accords with the general objective of the federal government in relation to Indian affairs. If the governments of Canada and Quebec can reach agreement on the terms of a transfer of administration, it would then be necessary to consult with the Eskimos themselves. No change of administration can take place until they have had an opportunity to express their views. This was the unanimous opinion of the governments of the provinces in relation to Indian administration at the federal-provincial conference in November, 1963.



ALASKA HIGHWAY-INQUIRY AS TO NEGOTIATIONS WITH UNITED STATES

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Bert Leboe (Cariboo):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct a question to the Minister of Public Works. He has not had anybody bothering him today. Could he make a report now, or perhaps in a day or two, on the progress that is being made in connection with the paving of the Alaska highway and the negotiations with the United States?


Jean-Paul Deschatelets: I would prefer to take this question as notice, Mr. Speaker.



INQUIRIES OF THE MINISTRY

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Frank Howard (Skeena):: I wonder if I may ask the Prime Minister a question based upon a statement by the United States government that it intended to discontinue

military aid to those countries which continued to trade with Cuba. I should like to ask the Prime Minister whether his government will give support to this position of the United States by returning the Bomarc missiles?


Mr. Gerard Perron (Beauce):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Prime Minister.
Would he outline the duties and responsibilities, in his cabinet as well as before the house, of his one and only Minister without Portfolio?


Hon. Yvon Dupuis (Minister without Portfolio):: He is not the one and only; there are two. The hon. member is ill-informed, as usual.


Gérard Chapdelaine: Mr. Speaker, may I put a question to the Minister of Justice in his capacity as house leader?
Will the hon. member for Three Rivers be recognized by the government as deputy to the Leader of the Opposition, or Quebec leader, or merely as member of the house for Three Rivers?


Some hon. Members:: Answer.


Gilles Grégoire: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Public Works.
In view of the fact that Canada now has a new Sir Georges-Etienne Cartier, does the minister intend to remove Sir Georges-Etienne Cartier's statue that stands at present on parliament hill?



CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. Theogene Ricard (St. Hyacinlhe-Bagot):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Prime Minister. Could he tell the house what standards were used to justify the raise given to the chairman of the C.B.C., whose salary was increased from $20,000 to $40,000?


Lester Bowles Pearson: I do not think I should be asked to answer a question of that nature on orders of the day.
Inquiries of the Ministry


Mr. Speaker:: The hon. member for Lake St. John.


Mr. Marcel Lessard (Lake St. John):: Mr. Speaker, I thank you for having noticed that I had stood up several times; however, my question has already been asked by another member.



HEALTH AND WELFARE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. P. B. Rynard (Simcoe East):: I should like to ask the Minister of National Health and Welfare what action, if any, she intends to take on the report on fluoridation written by J. R. Marier, Dr. Dyson Rose and Dr. Marcel Boulet, referred to in the Globe and Mail of today.


Hon. Judy V. LaMarsh (Minister of National Health and Welfare):: Mr. Speaker, no government action is contemplated at this time. The article in question was brought to my attention a few weeks ago when it first received Canadian attention. It has been discussed with the members of my department as well as with members of the national research council. It is not contemplated that any action will be taken.



REQUEST FOR STATEMENT ON REVIEW OF SITUATION

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Barry Mather (New Westminster):: should like to address a question to the Minister of Trade and Commerce. In view of the continued public concern over the price of sugar, and in view of the boycott threat by the consumers of British Columbia, I wonder if the minister would report on the outcome or progress of the review of the sugar situation which his department undertook last fall.


Mitchell William Sharp: I would be happy to do so, but it is in the nature of a report and it will take me perhaps five minutes to read it.


Mr. Speaker:: I am sorry to interrupt, but it seems to me we need all the available time for quick questions and responsible answers.


Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas: Could there be agreement, Mr. Speaker, that the minister be allowed to table the answer? I think this is information which the house ought to have.

Inquiries of the Ministry


Mr. Speaker:: Is the house agreed?


Some hon. Members:: Agreed.



PASSAMAQUODDY-REQUEST FOR REPORT ON NEGOTIATIONS WITH U.S.

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Robert C. Coates (Cumberland):: I have a question for the Secretary of State for External Affairs. Is the minister in a position to report on the state of negotiations between Canada and the United States regarding the development of Passamaquoddy bay from a power point of view?


Paul Joseph James Martin: There are no negotiations between the government of the United States and the government of Canada on this subject. There have been technical discussions for the purpose of considering the next step only.



BAY OF FUNDY


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Robert Carman Coates: I
should like to ask the Minister of Transport when the house may expect a report from the minister and the Atlantic development board with regard to the investigation being carried out concerning the feasibility of harnessing the bay of Fundy tides?


John Whitney Pickersgill: I will be delighted to give such a report when my estimates are before the house.


Robert Carman Coates: In view of the importance of the development of the bay of Fundy power potential, will the minister give consideration to providing a report at an earlier date than when his estimates are before the house?


John Whitney Pickersgill: This matter, as I think I indicated at the last session, is under study at the present time and the study has not been completed. There would be no advantage in attempting to make a report until there is something upon which to report.



PAYMENT OF GRANT TO NEW BRUNSWICK COMMISSION

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. J. Chesier MacRae (York-Sunbury):: should like to ask the Minister of Transport whether all or any portion of the $20 million grant allocated by the Atlantic development board to the province of New Brunswick for the construction of the Mactaquac power project has been forwarded to the government of New Brunswick, and, if not, when it is expected that this payment will be made.


John Whitney Pickersgill: No payment has yet been made to the New Brunswick electric power commission. The terms of the grant are that accounts will be submitted as progress is made and that a proportion of the costs will be paid by the Atlantic development board.



TRANS-CANADA AIR LINES WINNIPEG MAINTENANCE BASE-COMMUNICATIONS WITH PREMIER

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
David Orlikow: should like to direct a question to the Prime Minister. I should like to ask him the extent of the communications he has had with Premier Roblin regarding the maintenance of the T.C.A. repair base in Winnipeg.


Lester Bowles Pearson: I should not like to do that on a question on orders of the day without notice. On a suitable occasion I shall be glad to make a statement. I believe there is a motion on the order paper for the production of papers in connection with this matter, too.


Stanley Howard Knowles: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a question to the Prime Minister, supplementary to the one asked a moment ago by the hon. member for Winnipeg North. With respect to the T.C.A. maintenance and overhaul base at Winnipeg, the retention of which the Prime Minister has both assured and reconfirmed, can he also reconfirm the assurance given at the last session that the employment levels at that base will be maintained?


Lester Bowles Pearson: Mr. Speaker, the assurances I have given at the last session have been reconfirmed since then, most recently in a telegram to the premier of Manitoba.



REPORTED STATEMENT BY MINISTER RESPECTING SHORT RUNS

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Erik Nielsen (Yukon):: I have a question for the Minister of Transport based upon press reports relating to statements made by him concerning his intention to have T.C.A. cancel short route runs. Can the hon. gentleman tell the house when he intends to commence this decimation of T.C.A.?


John Whitney Pickersgill: I was rather surprised to read what I was supposed to have said, myself. What I did in fact say was that T.C.A. had found in western Canada, as hon. members well know, that there are certain of these short routes which cannot be serviced with modern long

range aircraft. I was not seeking to draw any inferences from that with regard to future policy.


Paul Raymond Martineau: A supplementary question. Did the minister say it was imperative that that be done?


John Whitney Pickersgill: Imperative that what be done?


Paul Raymond Martineau: That the regional carriers replace the national carriers on these small lines?


John Whitney Pickersgill: I made no statement about any future replacement at all. I merely referred to a replacement which had already been made.


Erik Nielsen: Would the minister inform the house what runs cannot be handled by modern aircraft in use today?


John Whitney Pickersgill: I think it is better to leave expert matters of this kind to experts.



CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. W. H. A. Thomas (Middlesex West):: Has the Minister of Transport received representations from the city of London seeking the retention of the Canadian National car repair shops at that point? If so, has any action been taken in connection with the matter?


John Whitney Pickersgill: The answer to both questions is yes; representations have been received and transmitted to the management of the Canadian National.



MATANE-STE. ANNE DES MONTS   CANCELLATION OF PROJECT

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
J.-H.-Théogène Ricard: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a question to the Minister of Transport?
What reasons led the cabinet to cancel the construction of the railway section between Matane and Ste. Anne des Monts?


John Whitney Pickersgill: The hon. gentleman has raised a very large subject, which it would be very difficult to discuss intelligently on the orders of the day.


J.-H.-Théogène Ricard: You will have a chance some other time.
Inquiries of the Ministry EDUCATION



LEGISLATION RESPECTING SCHOLARSHIPS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
John George Diefenbaker: I should like to direct a question to the Prime Minister which arises out of an announcement made yesterday that loans are going to be provided for university students. I would like to ask him whether there is any possibility at this session, in these days of decision, to introduce the legislation promised during the election covering the provision of the 10,000 university scholarships for which so many are waiting and hoping.


Lester Bowles Pearson: Mr. Speaker, I will have something to say about this tomorrow which I hope will satisfy my right hon. friend.


Mr. J. E. Pascoe (Moose Jaw-Lake Centre):: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker.


Mr. Speaker:: Well, I cannot quite see what sort of supplementary arises, but let us try.


James Ernest Pascoe: Mr. Speaker, I wish to address a question to the Prime Minister in regard to the proposed loans to university students. Will the Prime Minister clarify statements in the press this morning referring to interest free loans to university students? Does this mean that there will be no interest charged for these loans at any time, or will there be interest covering the period needed for repayment after graduation?


Lester Bowles Pearson: Mr. Speaker, this will be cleared up when we have a chance to discuss this very interesting and progressive proposal.


John George Diefenbaker: May I ask a supplementary question. Have the provinces been consulted in regard to this plan?


Lester Bowles Pearson: Mr. Speaker, in the speech from the throne there is a reference to consultation with the provinces. Of course this is a matter strictly within the jurisdiction of the federal government, but following our normal policy in dealing with matters of concern to the provinces we thought it would be only courteous to consult the provinces before implementing it.



FAILURE OF CANADA TO SECURE 1968 OLYMPIC GAMES

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Eldon M. Woolliams (Bow River):: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a question to the Prime Minister. Would the Prime Minister advise the house why there was apparently no high ranking Canadian external affairs

Inquiries of the Ministry official or top ranking cabinet minister at the Innsbruck conference to sell Banff successfully as the 1968 winter Olympic games site?


Lester Bowles Pearson: Mr. Speaker, at that conference there were not only high ranking Canadian officials but also a high ranking Canadian cabinet minister.


Mr. Speaker:: The hon. member for Sherbrooke.


Michael Starr: As a supplementary question to the one asked by the hon. member for Bow River may I ask the Prime Minister-


Mr. Speaker:: Order. The hon. member for Sherbrooke.


Michael Starr: It is a supplementary question to the one asked.


Mr. Speaker:: The hon. member for Sherbrooke was already on his feet.


Michael Starr: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Prime Minister, since he has advised the house that there were high ranking officials and high ranking cabinet ministers joining in the representation on behalf of Canada, in view of the fact that Canada lost the 1968 Olympic games can he tell us what they were doing there?


Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas: Mr. Speaker, may I ask a supplementary question of the Minister of National Health and Welfare who, on returning from the games, made reference to the flabbiness of the Canadian people and the need for greater physical fitness in Canada. Does this mean that the government intends to reactivate the physical fitness program which a previous Liberal government scuttled?


Julia Verlyn (Judy) LaMarsh: Mr. Speaker, I should like to say to my hon. friend that I think I never used the word "flab". This was a use of the word made by our friends of the fourth estate. However, I am sure my hon. friend realizes that every person whose responsibility and concern are the health and welfare of the Canadian people knows that anything which would make us a people of better health who could live longer and in greater enjoyment would be something all hon. members could support.


Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas: May I ask the minister
whether she proposes anything more specific than this pious platitude?


Gilles Grégoire: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a supplementary question to the Minister of National Health and
[Mr. Woolliams.)

Welfare. Can the minister tell this house whether her department has taken any decision concerning grants to the interprovincial games?


Julia Verlyn (Judy) LaMarsh: Mr. Speaker, I am not sure that I know to what my hon. friend refers when he says "interprovincial games" although I think I know the proposed games in Quebec to which he refers-not all-Canada games-and this matter is presently being considered by the government.


Mr.  R. Gordon L. Fairweafher@Royal: Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question of some urgency. Will the Minister of National Health and Welfare reassure us that the 5BX exercises are not dangerous?


Julia Verlyn (Judy) LaMarsh: Only if you smoke while you are doing them.



TELEVISION


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. C. E. Millar (Middlesex East):: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a question to the Secretary of State. In view of the fact that a large number of Canadian citizens are concerned about the intention of the C.B.C. to take a look at cable television service, can the minister give any indication to the house of what this look will consist of?


Maurice Lamontagne: Mr. Speaker, this matter is under review now and is before the board of broadcast governors.



AGRICULTURE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Raymond Langlois: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture. Could the minister inform us about the new terms which will be introduced to the house regarding loans to farmers?


Hon. Harry W. Hays (Minister of Agriculture):: Mr. Speaker, this is in the pending legislation which I hope will be handled fairly soon, because it is very important so far as the farmers are concerned.



SUBSIDY ON GRAIN TRANSPORTED BY TRUCK

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Marcel Lessard: Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question for the Minister of Agriculture.
Could the minister tell us about the terms under which subsidies granted for grain shipped by trucks are controlled. An announcement is supposed to be made in the near future. Could we know about it now? What is this policy regarding subsidies granted to truckers carrying grain?


Harry William Hays: This is really important. I think the question is one for the order paper. If the hon. member wants an answer in great detail I would be glad to give it to him, but we should be here until six o'clock.



FEED GRAINS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Raymond Langlois: May I
ask the Minister of Agriculture whether it is the intention of the government to consider establishing an eastern feed grain board early in this session.


Harry William Hays: A decision on this matter will be announced when the policy has been decided.



BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. G. H. Aiken (Parry Sound-Muskoka):: I wish to direct a question to the Minister of Justice in his capacity as leader of the house. Does the government intend to set up the special committee on procedure and organization early this session?


Hon. Guy Favreau (Minister of Justice):: The answer is yes.



PRINCE RUPERT, B.C.-INCREASE IN ELEVATOR CAPACITY

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Frank Howard: I wonder if I might direct a question to the Minister of Agriculture and ask him whether there are any plans on foot in his department to add to or increase the capacity of the grain elevator in Prince Rupert.
Inquiries of the Ministry


Harry William Hays: This is under consideration, but no decision has been made up to the present.



ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Guy Marcoux (Quebec-Montmorency):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct a question to the Minister of Justice.
Has he had time to secure information about the inquiry I had asked the former minister of justice to make about the parole board as well as the study which had been proposed at the same time about the case of Leopold Dion?


Guy Favreau: Mr. Speaker, I must say that this is one of several matters about which I asked for information, which I expect to get shortly, and I will lose no time in informing the house then.



NATIONAL PARKS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Gerald A. Regan (Halifax):: I should like to direct a question to the minister of northern affairs. Can the hon. gentleman inform the house whether the provincial government of Nova Scotia has made sufficient progress in acquiring the necessary land for the proposed national park in western Nova Scotia to enable the federal government to proceed with the construction of the necessary facilities this coming summer?


Arthur Laing: We have been in touch with the government of Nova Scotia which, as far as I can recall, is making splendid progress. There are one or two outstanding properties which they are endeavouring to acquire. There will be no hold up as far as we are concerned because our planning has gone forward parallel with that of the provincial government.



ROYAL VISIT


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Robert Muir (Cape Breton North and Victoria):: I have a question for the Prime Minister. In view of a report in yesterday's press attributed to a Dr. Raymond Barbeau of the University of Montreal that our Queen



Inquiries of the Ministry may be in danger when she visits Quebec in October, would the right hon. gentleman consider making arrangements to have Her Majesty visit Nova Scotia, where she will receive a warm welcome equal to that which I am sure she will receive in Prince Edward Island?
Righl Hon. L. B. Pearson (Prime Minisler):
I am sure Her Majesty will receive a warm welcome in Quebec also.


Louis-Joseph Pigeon: A supplementary question.

Does the Prime Minister intend to have the hon. member for Lotbiniere (Mr. Choquette) accompany the Queen when she visits our country?



TRANSPORT


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Reynold Rapp (Humboldi-Melfort-
Tisdale): Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Transport. Could the minister inform the house whether it is the government's intention to set up a special committee to study the report of the Mac-Pherson commission on railway abandonment before proceeding with the recommendations contained therein?
John Whitney Pickersgill: Mr. Speaker, the government, as I think was indicated in the speech from the throne, has the intention of introducing legislation along the lines that my colleague who is now President of the Privy Council (Mr. Mcllraith) gave notice of at the last session of parliament. It is of course anticipated that this important legislation will go before a committee, but I imagine it will be the standing or the sessional committee on railways.



NEWFOUNDLAND


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Malcolm MacInnis: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Transport. Will the minister be making early representations to the C.N.R. to improve the rail service in Newfoundland and to standardize the railway in that province?


John Whitney Pickersgill: That is a very large question too, Mr. Speaker.



INCOME TAX


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Raymond Langlois: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of National Revenue. Is it the intention of the government to raise the personal income tax exemptions this session?
Hon. J. R. Garland (Minister of National
Revenue): Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. gentleman will have to contain himself until the budget presentation.



SPEECH FROM THE THRONE


[Stage Direction]
The house proceeded to the consideration of the speech delivered by His Excellency the Governor General at the opening of the session.
Mr. Jean-Pierre Cote (Longueuil):: Mr. Speaker, I want to thank all my dear fellow members for their warm welcome.
May I also, Mr. Speaker, tell the Prime Minister (Mr. Pearson) how much I appreciate the singular honour he wished to extend to the constituency of Longueuil by asking its representative to move the address in reply to the speech from the throne. The people of Longueuil are proud, and rightly so, of their territory and its many possibilities in the economic as well as in the cultural and social fields. I think that today, the Prime Minister wanted to recognize its contribution to our national heritage, more particularly as he might be somewhat worried and apprehensive with regard to the contents of my speech because, knowing me, he is aware that I am not afraid of speaking my mind, even concerning the speech from the throne.
I see in this more evidence of the Prime Minister's broadmindedness, and I am happy to reassure him immediately.
Though very brief, the speech from the throne which was read to us by the hon. representative of Her Majesty the Queen, contained, as all hon. members will admit, essential projects for the welfare of every Canadian and for the harmonious development of federal-provincial relations through consultation.
The speech from the throne once again proves that the government has embarked on a serious program and, instead of resting on its laurels, after accomplishing a tremendous amount of work during the first session, continues, even faced with an alert opposition, to carry out its self-imposed task.

Mr. Speaker, I would of course like to seize the opportunity to express before my fellow members some of my main ideas for a better Canada, strong in its unity and great through the respect of the constitutional rights guaranteed to each part of our great confederation.
Mr. Speaker, may I first, on behalf of all hon. members, extend the warmest welcome in this house to the new members for the two Montreal ridings of Laurier and St. Denis. We congratulate the elected members, wishing them every success, and we are sure that they will work without prejudices for the greater welfare of every Canadian.
They follow two men who played an important part in the political development of our country. Their departure leaves a great void in this house. Every one of us will regret the jolly and witty remarks of the former postmaster general who succeeded in giving a new impulse to a department sometimes too little appreciated.
We shall regret also the oratorical talent of the former minister of justice. The talent he had to confound the opposition with such easiness made him a valuable asset to the administration. His experience and his sound judgment were of invaluable assistance to the Prime Minister whose right hand man he actually was.
Both had countless friends, however, because their knowledge of Canadian politics and their broadmindedness in connection with the problems of this country commanded respect and invited friendship. I am sure to be the spokesman of everyone in wishing the new high commissioner for Canada in London and the new senator great success in their important functions.
Mr. Speaker, may I express the same good wishes regarding the two hon. members promoted to the cabinet and to previous ministers entrusted with a different department.
Mr. Speaker, the county of Longueuil lies between two points where, in 1963, were launched two projects which, when completed, can only have the most beneficial effects. Both are of capital importance for the county and for Canada.
I am referring of course to the 1967 world fair to be held on a site which is largely in the riding of Longueuil and, second, to the transfer from the Department of National Defence to the Department of Transport of the air base at St. Hubert, in the neighbouring constituency of Chambly-Rouville.
I should like to say that I was very pleased by the interest shown in the world fair by many members from the other provinces. A large number of them visited the site last summer. I hope the initiative taken by the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Deschatelets) will be taken again this year so that everyone
The Address-Mr. J. P. Cote may see what progress has been made. I should like to invite in particular the hon. member for Skeena (Mr. Howard) to come and meet the mayor of Montreal. He would thus find out that the later is very open-minded and has no racial prejudices. I have known him personally for some 20 years and I am proud to say that he is a very honest and hard working man served by an intelligence of first calibre.
A great lawyer and a fine administrator, Mr. Jean Drapeau has truly been the champion of the world fair and we owe him a great deal for the holding of that event in Canada in 1967.
One would have to be of bad faith to deny that such a manifestation of human solidarity and culture, accompanied by exhibits of the fantastic inventions of the human mind, will bring about a great economic development not only for Montreal or the south shore but for the whole of Canada. That is why I associate myself with all those who have expressed their faith in the future and asked the Canadian people to work together for the success of the world fair which will be inaugurated the very year that Canada will celebrate its centennial. The exhibition should reflect the whole nation. Our share should be national in character, as the fair will be international and is meant to convey the idea to its visitors of Canada's greatness
a greatness which should not be just literature, but an expression of the very soul of Canada.
The transfer of the St. Hubert airport from the Department of National Defence to the Department of Transport, its transformation from a military airfield into a civilian terminal, is another development which will greatly promote commercial and industrial expansion of the south short of the St. Lawrence river and of the metropolis.
That airport is nearer to the centre of Montreal than the present international airport at Dorval, and will be even closer after completion of the new road system which is now being built. Easy access to Montreal from the south shore by numerous bridges is an important factor in the proposed development.
It is therefore important that the Department of Transport should, as soon as possible, change the St. Hubert airport into a civilian and a commercial airport. It will, indeed, become an essential factor in solving all the problems to be expected with the flow of tourists to the 1967 exhibition.
Mr. Speaker, it would be appropriate at this time to recall some of the many bills which were adopted during the last session by this parliament to restore, without undue

The Address-Mr. J. P. Cote favouritism, and without prejudice, a better balance between the provinces. Those bills were really welcome in Quebec. I shall, for instance, point out Bill No. C-107, to amend the National Centennial Act to read Centennial of Canadian Confederation Act, which permits Quebec to benefit from the various grants provided for permanent cultural achievements.
Let us also recall the act providing for assistance in the establishment of technical and vocational schools, which will ensure an additional $65 million to the province of Quebec and, by this very fact, put all provinces on an equal footing.
I also would like to point out the changes in the portable pension plan, aiming at leaving to the provinces, the possibility of organizing their own program or of adhering to the national plan. There is also the option plan for municipal loans, the changes in the equalization system, giving an additional $83 million to the provinces, of which Quebec will receive $42 million. I shall also mention the commission on bilingualism and biculturalism. All that was achieved in a little more than 100 days of session.
Many other bills are required, and a great deal of new legislation can be passed without costing the treasury a cent.
Take, for instance, the amendment to the Criminal Code which would give every province the authority to organize a provincial lottery if it wanted to.
It is unthinkable that a province cannot have a lottery for social welfare purposes while billions of dollars are bet each year at race tracks. And that, not only in Quebec.
The adoption of a distinctive Canadian flag and of a national anthem at this session, Mr. Speaker, even if I see nothing about it in the speech from the throne, seems to be very logical. And the most favourable time would be on the occasion of the visit of the Queen to this country. As far as I am concerned, I would be proud to fly the union jack over my house, during the forthcoming royal visit, if only there was next to it a truly Canadian flag which would be that of my country. I am sure the hon. member for Lotbiniere (Mr. Cho-quette) would gladly accompany the Queen during that tour.
I feel strongly about a distinctive flag, not enough to start fasting until it is voted, but enough to keep pointing out the importance of such a measure to the right hon. Prime Minister and to the government.
I may be overanxious, Mr. Speaker, but I am sometimes inclined to forget that the Liberal party's platform must be carried out during one parliament and that, in fact, we are only beginning the second of the usual four sessions of a parliament.
[Mr. Cote (Longueuil) .1
While we recognize, Mr. Speaker, that the government treated the provinces well during the last session, we must realize just the same that numerous requests will keep on coming through the representatives of the people sitting in this house.
It would be futile to believe that the voices of the provinces will be silent and that the strongest voice-that of reason-will be lost in the time that lies ahead.
But I want to assert to the country that the voice of the extremists-even though it receives much publicity-is not the voice of the vast majority of Quebeckers, though its effect has been to shake the torpor and raise the voice of the moderates, whose duty it is to prove that Quebec has its place in confederation.
I believe, Mr. Speaker, that everybody's opinion is to be respected, even that of the extremists. If they are sincere, it is not in abusing them that we shall make them change their minds. It is up to us to give them concrete evidence that their theory is wrong.
Separatism will not take root in this country because the French speaking Canadian has chosen above all security in solidarity and truth rather than insecurity in isolation and dreams.
But he will not stop fighting for his principles and his culture, and he will redouble his efforts to regain control over his economy.
For the realistic French Canadian, to stay in confederation is a challenge. He has to put up a fight, a fierce fight at times, not for his survival now but to achieve his full development in all fields and to protect his basic right to liberty in security, and this to the exclusion of any demagogic formula.
In his opinion, separatism is in effect a setback. He does not want to fall back. It is on the front line that the dialogue with the English speaking Canadian must be continued. But there cannot be any dialogue among deaf people. The French speaking Canadian wishes to become free, but peacefully, without gaining an independence which would amount to isolation in a very fragile glass shelter.
I am deeply convinced, Mr. Speaker, that the French speaking Canadian is determined to fill the part expected from him within confederation. He is determined to be a Canadian, but without abdicating his rights.
I ask French speaking Canadians-and not only my colleagues, Mr. Speaker-to remain nationalists, because we must be fully and really nationalists to keep our heritage and recover that to which we are entitled. But for pity's sake, let us not make the mistake of falling into sentimental extremism, for it

is a negative process that could but hurt ourselves. We do not have the right to ignore our fellow citizens in the other provinces.
English speaking Canadians-here again I do not appeal only to my colleagues, Mr. Speaker-do try to understand our mentality, our ways, our customs, our language. Do not take offence at our ways or behaviour that may sometimes seem arrogant. You are not faultless, and be sure that we want you to remain English Canadians instead of being American or British.
And to all the other ethnic groups which have accepted as their homeland a bilingual country, the two official languages of which are English and French, I say: you have no right to relinquish your culture, which offers a complement to Canadian culture and which may one day serve as a link between the two founding nations and help make Canada a united power.
Stupid statements, in either of the official languages of the country, can only create a gap which may eventually become insuperable and render coexistence almost impossible.
On the other hand, speeches like those delivered by the Prime Minister in this house during the last session, the hon. member for Burnaby-Richmond (Mr. Prittie) in Vancouver, the Minister of Finance (Mr. Gordon) before the Canadian club in Toronto, are the real leaven of national unity. The same may be said of those speeches which the Minister of Justice (Mr. Favreau) and the Secretary of State (Mr. Lamontagne) gave throughout the country.
On the other hand, I could quote other members, on both sides of this house, whose thoughtless statements are greatly prejudicial to our coexistence.
The action which the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Diefenbaker) has just taken- and I have no doubt he is sincere-in accepting a French Canadian deputy leader, is also a positive action, which cannot but solidify the alliance between the two nations.

I might never have a better occasion, Mr. Speaker, to call upon the elite of the English speaking population of the province of Quebec, Protestant as well as Roman Catholic, to go out of Quebec and say how they are not treated in Quebec as a minority but as equal partners. That would help the French minorities in other provinces who have so much trouble in getting fair treatment in the education of their children.
When I talk like this, Mr. Speaker, do not think I am a fanatic; because during the term I served as president of the Longueuil school board I worked toward the erection of only
The Address-Mr. Basford one school and that one school was for the English students of Longueuil.
We belong, Mr. Speaker, to two nations but we live in one great country. We agreed to get together, for better or for worse, in 1867. If our marriage cannot be one of love, let us make it one of reason. If one of the partners is not happy, we should listen carefully to find out what can be done. One of the reasons la belle province gets mad sometimes and asks for a divorce is that her partner is too tight with the money. We should give her a proper share so she could pay for her own expenses and live on a sound budget. If la belle province is jealous it is because her partner is flirting too much with other nations on occasion and forgets her.
We all feel, Mr. Speaker, that there is something wrong. Let us, therefore, sit together around a table to discuss these matters. Then if things have to be changed, if a new marriage contract has to be signed-after all it is 100 years old-to make both partners happy, let us get together and do it. Let us start a new honeymoon in 1967, the year of our one hundredth anniversary.

Seconded by the hon. member for Van-couver-Burrard (Mr. Basford), I move that the following address be presented to His Excellency the Governor General of Canada:
To His Excellency General the Right Honourable Georges P. Vanier, Companion of the Distinguished Service Order, upon whom has been conferred the Military Cross- and the Canadian Forces' Decoration, Governor General and Commander-in-Chief of Canada.
May it please Your Excellency:
We, Her Majesty's most loyal and dutiful subjects, the House of Commons of Canada, in parliament assembled, beg leave to offer our humble thanks to Your Excellency for the gracious speech which Your Excellency has addressed to both Houses of Parliament.


Mr. Ron Basford (Vancouver-Burrard):: Mr. Speaker, may I first thank hon. members of the house on both sides for the very tumultuous welcome that I have been given this afternoon. Yesterday Her Majesty's representative, His Excellency, welcomed us to the second session of the twenty sixth parliament. I am sure I speak on behalf of all members in assuring His Excellency, through you, Mr. Speaker, of our pleasure in being able to welcome him to this particular parliament and in seeing that his return to health is such as to allow him to personally deliver the speech from the throne.
I should like too, Mr. Speaker, to join with my friend the hon. member for Longueuil (Mr. Cote) in offering to the ministers who are taking on new jobs, and to the new ministers, my very sincere congratulations

The Address-Mr. Basford and good wishes upon entering their new portfolios.
I should like, in addition, to welcome to this house, and to congratulate them upon their election, the two new members from Montreal, the hon. member for St. Denis (Mr. Prud'homme) and the hon. member for Laurier (Mr. Leblanc). I welcome them with more than the usual parliamentary courtesy. The hon. member for Villeneuve (Mr. Caouette) and the hon. member for Lapointe (Mr. Gre-goire) try to tell us that they are the spokesmen of the French speaking people of Canada. Their hysterical and destructive statements are given great prominence in much of the English press of Canada, sometimes to the exclusion of all other statements. The people in my part of the country, British Columbia, often get the impression that the views of these members are the views of all French speaking Canadians. I particularly congratulate the new members because their victory is demonstrative proof of the fact that the hon. members for Villeneuve and Lapointe were turned down by the voters. They are not in fact the spokesmen for French speaking Canadians.
I had hoped that my lessons would have progressed sufficiently far to permit me to congratulate the hon. member for Longueuil in his own language on the very gracious speech he has given. I do feel that anything of beauty should not be spoiled. If I were now to speak in French I would be ruining something of beauty. I do, however, congratulate my hon. friend, who has moved this motion, upon what he has said.
I should like to thank the Prime Minister for honouring the people of my riding of Vancouver-Burrard by asking me, their representative, to second the address in reply to the speech from the throne. I, as a British Columbian, could go on at great length about the beauty of our great province, of which we are all so proud. In fact, in the rest of Canada I believe we are often referred to as the Texans of Canada. The only difference between us and the Texans, sir, is that we do not exaggerate.
Mine is a completely urban riding covering an older section of the city of Vancouver. It contains some, but not very many, luxury apartments as well as many older homes, a number of which are now being tom down to make room for apartments and commercial developments. There are many in my riding who have a very small share of this world's goods, and have accommodation and living quarters that are a disgrace to a rich and affluent society. Like city dwellers everywhere, whether as property owners or as tenants, they are faced with the problem of


an ever increasing burden of municipal taxation. Our cities and towns, facing the rising costs of education, sewers, waterworks, recreational facilities, streets and all the other things our cities so badly need are desperate for financial aid. The burden of municipal taxes on property, either residential or commercial, in many cases is desperate. There are many who are having great difficulty in trying to keep a roof over their heads.
Ways must be found for a greater participation by the federal government in providing financial assistance to municipalities. The municipal loan and development act and the changes in the winter works program, for example, enacted at the last session are a great help. The amendments to the National Housing Act, mentioned in the speech from the throne, are measures designed by the government to remove some of the burden from municipal taxpayers.
One of those chosen to take part in this traditional part of the proceedings last year was from Ontario. I feel that in asking me, a person born in Winnipeg and now representing a Vancouver riding, to participate this year, the Prime Minister is indicating his desire to show in this tangible way the place that British Columbia and western Canada occupies in his thinking and in the thinking of his government.
As a British Columbian I welcome the fact that this government has been able to successfully complete the Columbia river negotations, which had been completely deadlocked under the former government, and welcome the announcement that the treaty and protocol will be submitted to parliament for ratification.
I welcome the reaffirmation that a 12 mile fishing limit will be established this spring, and the announcement of a national fishery development program, and I am sure my hon. friends from the maritimes will agree on this.
As a westerner I welcome particularly the emphasis the government will place on increasing employment and raising the standard of living by strengthening and assisting the secondary industries of Canada. Last session we established the Department of Industry. This year further measures will be taken, and I emphasize that in western Canada our provincial economies are largely dependent on one or two major resource industries, and our desperate need in order to strengthen our economies is to diversify and expand our industrial potential.
I welcome also the statement that the government is negotiating for the expansion of markets for Canadian exports through the liberalization of world trade. In western Canada we produce in our basic industries

far more than can be sold in Canada. I would emphasize to the government that we must follow a trade policy, as we have so successfully done with wheat, which creates and develops markets for our products.
Traditionally our trading policy has been oriented to the European or Atlantic countries. I suggest there is in the Asian and Far Eastern countries, the developing countries of the Pacific rim region, a huge potential for the expansion of Canadian trade. Briefly I urge upon the ministry that it pursue two orientations in Canadian trading patterns, one to the important Atlantic region and one to the growing Pacific region. This is a different and uncharted market. We cannot necessarily apply to it existing and traditional formulas.
Our foreign policy generally, and our foreign aid, investment and credit policies specifically must be complementary to our trading policy if we are to realize the potential of exports to the Pacific rim region. Let us remember that as the underdeveloped Asian countries develop, their need for raw materials and manufactured products is immense. Let us assure that Canada takes part in filling the need they will have.
The hon. member for Burnaby-Coquitlam (Mr. Douglas), the leader of the New Democratic party, has been saying for 25 years that this party is not a progressive party and that it is not prepared to help those in our society who need help. It would appear that because he has been saying the same old thing for 25 years, fewer and fewer people are paying much attention to what he or his party have to say. This speech from the throne, the second instalment of our Liberal program, clearly shows the hon. member to be wrong and clearly establishes this party and this government as the progressive party of Canada, as the effective element of reform in Canada; and I refer specifically to such measures provided for in the speech from the throne as the national labour code, the interest free loans to students, retirement age for the Senate, redistribution, an enforceable limit to election expenditures, the concern of the government for rural development, and last but most important the indicated determination of the government to proceed with a contributory pension plan. These measures all indicate and confirm this government as a progressive, forward looking, reform minded government.
With regard to the pension plan I want- and this being leap year I hesitate-nevertheless I want to pay a particular tribute to the Minister of National Health and Welfare. The fact that we are now able to proceed at this point with the pension plan is due in large
The Address-Mr. Basford measure, I suggest, to the dogged determination she showed in support of that plan, and I hope that in the years ahead the people of Canada will come to realize this.
I want to assure the Prime Minister that the people of my riding want a contributory pension plan, and that the people of this country who work in our offices and factories, in our forests and on our farms, want it. Admittedly they are not the people who have the resources to hire expensive public relations men to try and discredit the pension plan. Admittedly they are not the people whose re-election to some provincial parliament is dependent on large campaign contributions.- They are, however, the people who after a lifetime's work are entitled to look to the government, as they will to this government, to have provided a system by which they can retire in security and with dignity.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I want to turn to three somewhat related matters. The speech from the throne tells us provision will be made for assistance to Canadian periodicals. This surely is related to the much larger question of whether Canadians really want to remain Canadians. We have to ask ourselves whether Canada is to continue as a nation and, if it is, certain things must be done to assure that it does continue as a free and independent nation. This government has answered this question in the affirmative.
This party has a proud record in the historical development of Canada as a free and independent country within the commonwealth. We are now prepared to see that we remain a free and independent country. We have played our part in the establishment of this country; we are not prepared to play a part in breaking it up. We must concern ourselves with the degree of foreign capital and cultural influence in Canada. If we cannot remain economically free, if we cannot preserve a Canadian identity, we cannot long remain politically free. Certainly, Mr. Speaker, we are going to need foreign capital in Canada; but we, as people in so many other countries do, are surely entitled to regulate the type and nature of that capital. We cannot and should not try to isolate ourselves and build a wall around Canada, but as a government we can be and are responsible to see that Canada's national identity is not submerged.
We are, of course, concerned about the means and methods and techniques, but surely we must all be committed to the preservation of Canada and its identity. This will take some sacrifice and some cost on our part, but surely Canada is worth making that sacrifice for and worth paying that price.

The Address-Mr. Basford


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Stanley Ronald Basford: Being determined to keep Canada independent we are on the other hand faced with the problem of keeping it together. One does not have to sit in this house very long to realize that we have a fantastically difficult country to govern. It is a country, unlike others, that has natural influences that pull us apart rather than together, and I refer not only to the present French speaking and English speaking controversy but to the natural economic and geographic influences in Canada. Because of these influences, Canadian governments and Canadian statesmen have had to deliberately and consciously work at national unity. We have had in some cases, almost by artificial means, to tie this country together. We have built railroads and air lines and highways. We have spent millions of dollars on the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation purely as a means to try to explain one part of the country to another, and of trying to work against the natural influences that pull the country apart.
The Liberal party has played a major role in what can properly be called the struggle for national unity. Because of the diversity we have, federalism is obviously the best and only type of government for this country. Provincial governments, provincial premiers, have important functions and responsibilities and they must have the financial resources with which to carry on. The provincial premiers have obligations to protect their provincial rights and interests. It is indicated that the functions and responsibilities of the two levels of government are undergoing a change and that the divisions of responsibility are in some respects outdated and unclear. This government has endeavoured, wherever possible, to co-operate with provincial governments and to understand their problems. The speech from the throne undertakes to continue the series of federal-provincial conferences which have already achieved considerable progress in improving federal-provincial co-operation and in improving the lines of communication and consultation between Ottawa and the provincial governments.
I am, however, disturbed by one attitude which seems to be developing. I do not refer specifically or particularly to the premier of Quebec. I would remind you, Mr. Speaker, that I come from a province the premier of which at the last federal-provincial conference made the greatest demands on the federal treasury. It disturbs me that an attitude seems to be growing that the government of Canada and the parliament of Canada should be nothing more than a clearing house

for the collection and disbursement to the provinces of great sums of money, and that there is a provincial veto over all that we in this parliament try to do. There are matters which should be exclusively within provincial control. There are others which require co-operation between the two levels of government. But, I suggest, there are also national problems with which the government of Canada and the parliament of Canada must have the power and resources to deal. This parliament cannot be allowed to become simply the rubber stamp for ten provincial premiers. I can assure them that the people of this country look to us in this parliament to solve some of the problems besetting Canada. We must be free, I suggest, to enact solutions.
One of these problems is, of course, the question of national unity itself. We must be free and able to propose solutions aimed at keeping this country together. One of the influences which divide us is, of course, the French speaking-English speaking controversy. I am from British Columbia and happen to be an English Anglican. I am proud of my heritage and the history of my people and their contribution to this country. My hon. friend from Longueuil and his French speaking compatriots are naturally and properly proud of their heritage, their history and the contributions their people have made and are making to Canada. There are those who have come to Canada with other heritages from countries in Europe, Asia and Africa who are also properly proud of their history and who wish to play their part usefully in the development of Canada. Surely this sort of pride is natural and proper, but it seems that this very pride is also dividing and separating us.
I hope that none of us come here to take part in the breaking up of a nation. Let us make no mistake; if the province of Quebec were to separate, other parts and regions of Canada would not be long in following. Surely, Mr. Speaker, irrespective of our origins we can also have pride in Canada, pride in the 96 years of nation building which has gone before, and pride in the future that can lie ahead for Canada. Surely we are not going to throw away past efforts, throw away the future that can belong to all of us, because we refuse to be tolerant, because we refuse to try to understand each other, because we refuse to try to communicate and work out ways of working with each other.
Some members of this house, unfortunately I suggest, try to take advantage of this present controversy by stirring up anger and suspicion for their own narrow political advantage. Surely each of us must be dedicated and committed to the purpose of being a

Canadian, of working out ways of preserving Canada and of assuring that the mosaic that is Canada can be kept together.
I have offered some slight advice to the Prime Minister and his government. In closing, Mr. Speaker, from my humble position here on this side I would like to offer a little advice to the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Diefenbaker) who, I suspect, is in greater need of advice than the Prime Minister. We have been presented with one of the shortest speeches from the throne since confederation, a speech bereft of the usual parliamentary niceties and cliches. It is a lean, progressive, businesslike document. I would characterize it as a "let us get on with the job" speech. The government has indicated its willingness, its desire, to go on. The people of this country are now looking to this parliament to address itself to the problems of this country and to get on with the job.
I realize that the Leader of the Opposition has certain important responsibilities but I know, also, that it rests principally in his hands whether this parliament is effective or whether it grinds to a complete standstill
The Address-Mr. Basford in the midst of parliamentary manoeuvring. The people of this country are not interested in having us sit here scoring debating points against each other.


Herbert Wilfred Herridge: What about last fall?


Stanley Ronald Basford: I am surprised at my socialist friends looking back to the past. That is usually the habit of the Conservatives.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Stanley Ronald Basford: I suggest the people of Canada are interested in our proposing and enacting solutions to the country's problems.
With the hope on this side of the house that this parliament will take the speech from the throne and address itself to the work of parliament and the needs of the people, I have the honour of seconding the motion of my hon. friend the hon. member for Longueuil for an address in reply to the speech from the throne.
On motion of Mr. Diefenbaker the debate was adjourned.
On motion of Mr. Pearson the house adjourned at 4.41 p.m.

Thursday, February 20, 1964