1959-03-19

Hon. J. W. Pickersgill (Bonavisia-Twillingale):: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a question of privilege. When I was absent from the house yesterday the hon. member for Kootenay West, as found at page 2031 of Hansard, purported to quote something I had said outside the house. I am quite sure the hon. gentleman did not mean to reproduce it incorrectly; I am sure he did not have the full text. It seems to me, since he was permitted to put it on Hansard, that as a member of the house I am entitled to put on Hansard the correct version of what I actually did say. With your permission, sir, I should like to do that. I have here the transcript made from the actual broadcast, and this is what I actually said:
In fact, Mr. Knowles and I had a conversation, which I don't think was private, about this very matter the night of the press gallery dinner. And I said to Mr. Knowles-I said-
"Will you tell me why it was that the I.W.A. chose to go right from British Columbia to Newfoundland, which had the highest wages and which was completely unionized already. All the loggers belonged to unions which had the check-off. Why did they go there, instead of going to New Brunswick or Nova Scotia or Quebec, where there is much less unionization and the wages are lower, if they were considering the real interests of the workers?" And Mr. Knowles said-"That's a very hard question to answer", and he didn't try to answer it.
I have a second point of privilege, Mr. Speaker. The hon. gentleman suggested that my reference to this conversation was unethical. I am not asking him to withdraw that remark or anything of the sort; I am quite willing to have my ethics judged by the public and by this house without defending them in any way. But I believe, Mr. Speaker, that I did not express myself as well as I should have when I said it was a conversation which I did not think was private. The conversation, of course, was private in the sense that Mr. Knowles and I were not conducting a public debate. What I should have said and what I meant was that I did not think the conversation was confidential. I am quite sure that every hon.
member who has appeared on one of these programs will appreciate the fact that one does not have a great deal of time for reflection before making these statements.


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Perhaps because at one time I was secretary to the cabinet I might have become a little confused about the difference between "private" and "confidential". I did not think that particular exchange between Mr. Knowles and me was confidential or meant to be or intended to be such. If Mr. Knowles thinks I have done him any injury, I apologize. But I still would like to hear the answer Mr. Knowles has to give to my question.


Mr. H. W. Herridge (Kootenay West):: Mr. Speaker, on a question of privilege may I say that I apologize to the hon. member for certain inaccuracies in my statement, having missed out a few commas and conjunctions; but the substance, in view of what he read, was essentially correct.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. gentleman did not mention the substance at all, if I might raise another question. The substance related to the other three eastern provinces.


Mr. Speaker:: I think the hon. member has sufficiently explained his question of privilege or his point of view.



MR. MCPHILLIPS    REFERENCE TO PRESENCE OF PRIME MINISTER IN HOUSE

Mr. A. D. McPhillips (Victoria, B.C.):: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a question of privilege also. I think all hon. members of the house will agree with me when I say this. When we see the Prime Minister here this evening, notwithstanding the terrific stress and strain he has been under for so many days, I think it is a wonderful demonstration of devotion to democratic duty, and I suggest that the house show its appreciation in that regard.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.



COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE

[Stage Direction]
Fourth and fifth reports of standing committee on miscellaneous private bills-Mr. McCleave.
2048	HOUSE OF
Trade Agreement with Australia


[Stage Direction]
Mr. J. W. Kucherepa (High Park) presented the third report of the standing committee on standing orders and moved that the report be concurred in.
Motion agreed to.

Hon. Gordon Churchill (Minister of Trade and Commerce):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to inform the house that a review of the Canada-Australia trade agreement is about to be initiated. The negotiations will take place in Canberra, Australia, and a delegation led by Mr. J. H. English, deputy minister of trade and commerce, will leave for Australia in the next few days.
The decision to review the Canada-Australia trade agreement was announced at the commonwealth trade and economic conference in Montreal. This trade agreement dates from 1931, and in essence provides for the exchange of preferential tariff treatment, which has proved of considerable value in our mutual trade. In view of the many changes that have taken place in the economies and trade relations of both Canada and Australia since that time, it is most desirable that a new trade agreement should be drawn up which will take account of these developments and will provide a basis for a further expansion of trade between the two countries.
Canada has close and important trade relations with Australia. Canadian exports to Australia last year amounted to $53 million, and included motor vehicles, wood pulp, newsprint, aluminum, tobacco, canned fish, lumber and chemicals. With the liberalization of import restrictions by Australia and the possibilities of further moves in this direction, new opportunities will be opened up for Canadian exporters. Similarly, the Canadian market is of great and growing importance to Australia. In 1958 Canada imported goods valued at $33 million from that country, the principal products being wool, sugar, meat, dried fruit and wine.
Canada and Australia share common objectives in the freeing and expansion of world trade, and the two countries co-operate closely in the development of constructive policies to resolve common trade and economic problems. I am confident that the review of the Canada-Australia trade agreement will further strengthen the relations between our two commonwealth countries.
[Mr. McPhillips.l



OIL-REPORTED CANADIAN EXEMPTION FROM U.S. IMPORT RESTRICTIONS

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
['On\nbehalf of this group, may I say that we are always pleased to know that governments are discussing, talking and negotiating. I support the remarks of the leader of the official opposition in respect to the United Nations.', 'Inquiries of the Ministry AIR TRANSPORT']
Mr. A. R. Smith (Calgary South):: Mr. Speaker, yesterday in reply to a question as to whether the United States were revising their position on oil import quotas the Minister of Trade and Commerce stated that he was having his officials check into the authenticity of this report. I wonder if he would be kind enough at this time to advise the house whether he has been able to confirm whether or not the United States administration has taken a changed view with respect to the importation of Canadian oil on the basis of national security?


Gordon Minto Churchill: Mr. Speaker, I regret that I have no further information and certainly no confirmation of the report that appeared in the press.


Mr. Hazen Argue (Assiniboia):: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Can the minister say what steps he has taken to ascertain whether or not the report is correct, and whether Canada is making further representations on this important question?


Gordon Minto Churchill: Mr. Speaker, if the report is correct we will get information through the usual channels. We are closely in touch with the officials in Washington and with the state department. We will certainly hear if there is anything valid in the report that appeared in the papers.


Hazen Robert Argue: Mr. Speaker, is this not a rather unusual delay with respect to such an important question? I should have thought the contact would have been almost simultaneous.


Gordon Minto Churchill: Mr. Speaker, I am not sure we should follow up every report that appears in a newspaper. Perhaps my hon. friend has some suggestions with regard to that point.


Hazen Robert Argue: On that point, is it not correct that the minister himself yesterday said that he would initiate an inquiry?


Gordon Minto Churchill: Mr. Speaker, yesterday I said:
We have been in communication with our officials in Washington, but have not had any confirmation of the report.
These words may be found at page 2020 of Hansard. What more rapid action does my hon. friend require?


Hazen Robert Argue: A further question, Mr. Speaker. Can the minister say what reply was given to him by his officials when he made this contact?


Gordon Minto Churchill: The reply was that there was no confirmation of the report, Mr. Speaker.



[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. L. B. Pearson (Leader of ihe Opposition):: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Prime Minister if there is anything he could usefully report to the house about the conversations he has just completed with the Prime Minister and the foreign secretary of the United Kingdom?


Right Hon. J. G. Diefenbaker (Prime Minister):: Mr. Speaker, as the Leader of the Opposition will realize, all I could possibly do is to deal in generalities and not with specific subjects. However, I think hon. members in general will join me in expressing satisfaction that the Prime Minister, Mr. Macmillan, and the foreign secretary, Mr. Lloyd, visited Ottawa before proceeding to Washington, thereby enabling these two statesmen to place before the Canadian government the views they intend to explore with the President of the United States.
The private talks which the Minister of Public Works and I had with them, and the discussions which took place at the meeting of the cabinet, re-emphasized the identity of the aims of the United Kingdom and Canada, and as well illustrated that intimacy and the value of the partnership which exists between the two governments.
In general the meetings were concerned with an examination of the questions of Germany, Berlin, and European security. They began with a comprehensive review of the 10-day visit they recently made to the Soviet union, and outlined the discussions which have taken place between them and Mr. Khrushchev; and I think just this general review indicated most clearly that those conversations and talks had been valuable. They gave an opportunity for a first hand impression of the Soviet position, and they enabled Mr. Macmillan to make clear beyond any doubt that there is unity among the western powers in their determination to safeguard their legitimate interests in Europe. The most important result of the visit was that the Russians appear to have accepted, for discussion at least, a settlement by negotiation and not the threatened settlement by force which theretofore had been feared as the epitome of their views.
Mr. Macmillan also outlined the course of his consultations last week with President de Gaulle and Prime Minister Debre in Paris,
Inquiries of the Ministry and with Chancellor Adenauer in Bonn. In the light of what he had learned in Moscow these discussions with the French and German leaders were most important, in that they led to a reaffirmation of western solidarity as well as advancing western preparations for the wider international negotiations which now seem likely to be held with the Soviet union in view of the statement made today by Mr. Khrushchev.
Our talks were largely in the nature of an exchange of information and a review of the German and Berlin problems and of the various proposals for a settlement of those problems now under study in western capitals and in NATO. I should emphasize that neither Mr. Macmillan nor I attempted to crystallize any British or Canadian position on specific questions under discussion. However, I might add that it is my belief that the United Nations might play some significant role in the solution of the Berlin problem, and that this phase deserves further and more careful study. I think it would be generally agreed that it was clear there was no essential difference in the British and Canadian assessments of the world situation or in the basic aims and policies of our two countries with regard to the complex questions of Germany, Berlin and European security.
I do not think I can add anything more to what I have said. I know the Leader of the Opposition, with his great experience in these matters, will realize that I can go no further than the outline I have just given the house.


Lester Bowles Pearson: Mr. Speaker, perhaps I am not strictly in order, but in view of the importance of the subject and the length of the reply just given by the Prime Minister-and I am not complaining about that-I hope I may be permitted to say on behalf of the official opposition that we have listened with great satisfaction to a statement which indicates that the two governments are close together in what we on this side of the house think is a very sound approach to this important problem.
It is particularly gratifying to hear the Prime Minister say that there may be a way in which the United Nations can, in due course, play a part in this Berlin situation in a manner which would be helpful to peace and security.


Herbert Wilfred Herridge: On
behalf of this group, may I say that we are always pleased to know that governments are discussing, talking and negotiating. I support the remarks of the leader of the official opposition in respect to the United Nations.

Inquiries of the Ministry AIR TRANSPORT



AUSTRALIA


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. Lionel Chevrier (Laurier):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct a question to the Prime Minister. I should like to know if arrangements have been made or are being made to renew the commonwealth air agreement. The Prime Minister will probably remember that the late secretary of state for external affairs on two occasions said that the air agreement had been extended first to February 6 and later to March 11, so that I presume now the government has some answer to the question as to whether or not the air agreement has been renewed or where it stands at this time.


John George Diefenbaker: Mr. Speaker, I am sure the hon. gentleman will allow this to stand as notice. The information I have extends only up to the last few days. I shall endeavour to have an answer for him tomorrow.



ROYAL CANADIAN MOUNTED POLICE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
John Whitney Pickersgill: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Justice. I should like to ask the minister whether in view of his professed concern for the integrity of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police it is his intention to take action against those persons who have made defamatory and libellous statements about the conduct of the police in Newfoundland?


Hon. E. D. Fulton (Minister of Justice):: Mr. Speaker, I shall always of course be concerned about anyone who has made defamatory and libellous statements against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, but the hon. gentleman has not identified the statements to which he refers, and I doubt if it would be proper for him to do so on the orders of the day.


John Whitney Pickersgill: I should be pleased to furnish the hon. gentleman with the press reports, Mr. Speaker.



FINANCE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. George H. Hees (Minister of Transport):: Mr. Speaker, yesterday the hon. member for Laurier asked if the formula to be
[Mr. Herridge.l
followed by the St. Lawrence seaway authority in connection with grants to municipalities in lieu of taxes will be the same as that followed by the Department of Transport. The answer is yes.



BANK OF CANADA


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. W. H. McMillan (Welland):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Finance. According to an article on the financial page of today's Toronto Globe and Mail, Canadian bonds have again declined sharply in the last two weeks, due in some small part to the liquidation of some of those bonds held by the Bank of Canada. My question is, does the government approve of this action on the part of the Bank of Canada?


Hon. Donald M. Fleming (Minister of Finance):: Mr. Speaker, I suggest that this is a highly improper question. The Bank of Canada carries on certain of its operations in the market without any instructions from the Minister of Finance, and it is not inhibited in any way in this regard. That is a matter for its own judgment. There are certain operations, of course, that the Bank of Canada carries out on behalf of the Minister of Finance. But, Mr. Speaker, I think on reflection my hon. friend will realize that the public interest would not be served by going into matters of that kind here.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, I would draw Your Honour's attention to the fact that this is precisely the kind of question that, when he was on this side of the house, the Minister of Finance used to ask Mr. Harris.


Donald Methuen Fleming: Mr. Speaker, never did I ask for information of the kind just asked for by the hon. member for Welland; not that kind of information.


John Whitney Pickersgill: More of the failing memory of the minister.



HOUSING


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. J. R. Garland (Nipissing):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Public Works. Since we are rapidly approaching the building season, can the minister say whether government study of the subject has progressed to the point that it intends at this session to introduce amendments to the National Housing Act that would

permit Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation to insure mortgages on existing or used homes in the medium priced field?


Hon. Howard C. Green (Minister of Public Works):: Mr. Speaker, so far as I know there will be no further amendments to the National Housing Act at this session.



HARBOURS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. D. M. Fisher (Port Arthur):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Transport. It stems from the announcement this week of the names of the lakehead harbour commissioners. Especially in view of the fact that the onus for two of the appointments lies with the municipalities, would the minister explain why the complete slate was announced not by the minister but by the defeated Conservative candidate in Fort William?


George Harris Hees: Mr. Speaker, I suppose it was because the defeated candidate in Fort William was more on his toes, perhaps, than the member for Port Arthur.


Douglas Mason Fisher: I could make some observations there, Mr. Speaker, but I will just ask this supplementary question. Was the announcement forwarded to the defeated candidate from the minister's office or from that of Mr. Grosart?


George Harris Hees: I have no knowledge of it being forwarded from either office, Mr. Speaker.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Just intuition.

The house in committee of supply, Mr. Rea in the chair.
DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS Terminable services-
734.-Purchase of flour to be given to the United Nations relief and works agency for Palestine refugees in the Near East-further amount required and. notwithstanding section 35 of the Financial Administration Act, to authorize payments to be made pursuant to this vote up to the 1st day of April, 1960, $1,500,000.


William Hector McMillan: Mr. Chairman, with respect to item 734 and also item 741, which is very much akin, I think the minister should be able to tell us the amounts that will be spent up to and including March 31. We are not opposed to this vote, but we can vote this amount now and we can also vote one-sixth, one-quarter, one-third or whatever supply is necessary for the following months.
Supply*-External Affairs Items 734 and 741 total $15 million, and that is a lot of money. I do not think we should have juggling around between two years in the accounts.
In support of what I say I would refer the minister to something he said when referring to the elimination of the NATO defence equipment account, as found on page 1240 of Hansard for June 17, 1958:
We believe that in the interests of good accounting practice and the maintenance of proper parliamentary control of expenditures this account should be liquidated during the current year.
I think we should vote the amount of money that will be expended up to the end of March of this year. The minister should be able to give us that amount, and he should be able to tell us approximately what will be spent in the next two months.


Donald Methuen Fleming: Apparently the hon. member is unaware of the fact that the contributions that have been authorized by parliament by way of Colombo plan and similar aid have never precisely fitted the fiscal year, and in almost all cases it has been the practice of parliament to authorize these, so far as the fiscal year appropriation is concerned, on what is called an open end basis. In other words, the authority does not lapse on March 31 of the year in question. It is not possible to make these appropriations fit precisely the fiscal year, and the reason this particular appropriation is brought forward in the 1958-59 estimates is that we wish to move as much of the flour, just as quickly as we can, and as much of it will be moved before March 31 as can be arranged by the Minister of Trade and Commerce. No one can say at this moment precisely how much it will be, but as much will be moved as can be moved.
The same applies to the purchase of wheat and flour under item 741. The Minister of Trade and Commerce is taking up these purchases from the Canadian wheat board and is moving them as quickly as it is possible to arrange for them to be shipped. I think it would be the wish of the house to make this aid effective by speeding it.


William Hector McMillan: Can the minister tell us how much has been moved as of this date?


Donald Methuen Fleming: No.


Mr. Benidickson:: I think this point is very well taken. Surely within two weeks of the end of the fiscal year we can get more precise information as to the probabilities of shipment of this grain and flour than the minister proposes to give at this stage. He has a second alternative. If he wanted to do so he could ask for more than one-sixth of the requirement he thinks will be needed

Supply-External Affairs for the first two months of the fiscal year starting on April 1; but to say that $15 million is required in the estimates for the year ending within two weeks and that he cannot give the house more precise information as to deliveries of flour and grain in the next two weeks is not taking the house into his confidence in the manner that the house deserves.


The Chairman:: Shall item 734 carry?


Lester Bowles Pearson: No, Mr. Chairman. Can the minister not give us some information about this item? I am talking now of item 741, though I gather it is item 734 we are discussing, in conjunction with item 741. Can the minister also give us an assurance that, as this is an item which concerns an expenditure under the Colombo plan that deals with consumer goods, all these shipments will be made with the approval and indeed on the initiative of the receiving country?
As the minister knows as well as I do, the Colombo plan was not designed to provide this kind of assistance to receiving countries. It was a plan for capital and technical assistance. What I want reassurance on is that the increase in the shipment of consumer goods, namely wheat and flour-and I am not complaining about that procedure in itself-[DOT] or the increased amount will not prejudice the capital and technical assistance which the countries are receiving.


Donald Methuen Fleming: This is not a Colombo plan item, Mr. Chairman. I point that fact out to the hon. gentleman. There is nothing here that is going to prejudice any country which is a party to the ordinary Colombo plan. This is a special item. Of course this assistance goes only to those countries with which arrangements have been made to receive it.


Lester Bowles Pearson: Mr. Chairman, I was talking about item 741 because my friend the hon. member for Welland mentioned it.


Donald Methuen Fleming: This is not a Colombo plan item. It is a special item for special assistance in the form of wheat and flour.


William Hector McMillan: Mr. Chairman, can the minister not tell us whether there has been one shipload, ten shiploads or what the number is?


Donald Methuen Fleming: None has gone out of the country, but it is on the seaboard awaiting shipment. As I indicated earlier, I cannot say how much of it will move before March 31. I can say that as much will move as the Minister of Trade and Commerce can arrange to have moved before March 31.


William Hector McMillan: Has any moved from our ports as yet?


Donald Methuen Fleming: I just said that none had moved out of the country as yet.


Mr. Martin (Essex East):: May I ask the
Minister of Finance whether he is in a position to explain to the house what the policy of the government is with regard to this agency whose term under the United Nations resolution will end at the beginning of 1960? Can the minister say whether or not the government has yet formulated a policy as a member of the United Nations, as to whether or not it is prepared to continue the work of UNRWA?


Donald Methuen Fleming: I cannot give any indication of policy beyond the present time. This item is confined to the particular amount indicated, namely $1,500,000. The government desires-and I believe with the approval of the house-to furnish this assistance to this extent by way of this special flour contribution. The matter was outlined fully in the house some ten days ago by the late secretary of state for external affairs.


William Moore Benidickson: Mr. Chairman, this particular item 734 is specifically in contravention of section 35 of the Financial Administration Act. Has the minister in his notes the section which is referred to and which he might read to the house? I do not have it, I must confess.


Donald Methuen Fleming: Section 35 is the section dealing with the lapsing of votes at the end of a fiscal year. This is the type of vote that is frequently used, as I think my friend will recall, in connection with aid programs.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
735.	Canadian government's assessment toward financing the United Nations emergency force in respect of the calendar year 1959 in the amount of $472,287 U.S., notwithstanding that payment may exceed or fall short of the equivalent in Canadian dollars, estimated as of March, 1959, which is $458,118.
Lester Bowles Pearson: This is an amount for payment of expenses, I take it, in connection with Canada's contribution to the United Nations emergency force. While I do not quarrel with the nature or the amount of that expenditure, nevertheless as my hon. friend knows this is a United Nations effort, and the expenditure of these amounts should be discharged by the United Nations; they were meant to be discharged by the United Nations, and I know efforts have been made to spread the cost among its members. I take it that, while making this expenditure, we hope to

get reimbursement from the United Nations. Perhaps the minister could give some indication in that regard.


Donald Methuen Fleming: Steps have been taken to that end, Mr. Chairman. I am glad to say that the indebtedness of the United Nations to Canada in this respect has been substantially reduced. Actually it has been reduced by something like $14 million in recent times, and it our expectation that this amount will be steadily further reduced.


Paul Joseph James Martin: Can the minister say what countries are still in default of their allocation under the United Nations?


Donald Methuen Fleming: No.


Mr. Marlin (Essex Easl):: Well, how does this amount compare with preceding years? Is it exactly this assessment?


Donald Methuen Fleming: I would be glad to furnish my hon. friend with this information.


Joseph Pierre Albert Sévigny: Shall item 735 carry?


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
736.	Canadian government's contribution towards the Far Eastern program of the intergovernmental committee on European migration, $60,000.
Lester Bowles Pearson: Mr. Chairman, item 736 deals with a contribution toward the Far Eastern program of the intergovernmental committee on European migration. It may be difficult for the minister to give this information and have all of these details available, but I have recently seen reports in the press to the effect that Canada has not been paying her fair share in the liquidation of the hard core of world war II refugees. Perhaps on this item the minister could give us some reassurance or otherwise on that score.


Donald Methuen Fleming: Mr. Chairman,
this item does not relate to the movement of European refugees out of Europe. This contribution of $60,000 is to be used in moving European refugees out of China. I may say that since 1952 ICEM, as the intergovernmental committee on European migration is known, has moved to overseas destinations approximately 10,000 refugees, most of whom are white Russian refugees from the bolshevik revolution of 1917, and their children. Over $4 million has been spent already on this program, to which Canada contributed $100,000 during the period 1954-55. There are still an estimated 10,000 European refugees in China, but 6,000 odd already have visa assurance. In recent years this movement out of China, of course, has come almost to a standstill. Since 1957, although visas to leave China were again obtainable, the flow of refugees has been restricted by lack 66968-9-130
Supply-External Affairs of funds. Urgent appeals for funds to move them began in August of 1957. Many countries, including Australia, Switzerland and the United Kingdom, have made extensive contributions since this appeal was made, even though some of these countries are contributing extensively to this problem by accepting refugees. This will be Canada's first contribution since 1955.


Lester Bowles Pearson: I am quite in favour of this contribution. I think it is a worthy project, and it will help liquidate a situation which has existed there for a good many years. But what I have in mind is an assurance that the $60,000 which is being given under this item to the intergovernmental committee on European migration-which is a European committee, although this effort is in the Far East-will not prejudice the funds which we have been allocating to this agency for European migration.


Donald Methuen Fleming: It will not prejudice it. The two matters are looked upon really as independent of one another in this approach.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
737.	Gift of two clerks' tables to the parliament of the West Indies, $2,600.
Mr. Peters:: Mr. Chairman, in relation to
item 737, might I ask the minister how this is arrived at? Does it require an order in council, or what is the machinery for arranging for this type of thing?


Donald Methuen Fleming: This is, of course, a matter for intergovernmental consultation to enable the selection of some form of contribution to the new parliament of the Federation of the West Indies which would be suitable and which would take its part in relation to other gifts which other countries of the commonwealth may be making. As a result of such exchanges it was agreed that the provision of two clerks' tables would be a very suitable action for Canada to take in regard to the new parliament of the West Indies federation.


William Arnold Peters: I have no objection to the gift. I was only inquiring how it was arranged. What is the machinery? Is there an order in council which authorizes the expenditure?


Donald Methuen Fleming: This present item, when voted, will constitute parliamentary authority for the expenditure of the $2,600 the two tables will cost.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
[Stage Direction]
Supply-External Affairs
740.	To reimburse the agricultural commodities stabilization account for dry skimmed milk donated to international relief agencies and organizations, $951,634.
Paul Joseph James Martin: Can the minister tell us whether the government is in a position to make any announcement of its policy with regard to representations made by the federation of agriculture regarding a number of matters of concern to the milk producers? These concerns include this particular item. The milk producers, as the Minister of Agriculture knows, were in the city yesterday and I think the day before, urging various members of parliament of all groups to give consideration to a brief which had been presented on their behalf by the federation of agriculture some months ago. One of the arguments made by the milk producers was that an additional outlet for skimmed milk might be found in the assistance which we give to underdeveloped countries, particularly those countries covered by the Colombo plan. Is there any statement the minister could make on this item with regard to the representations made by the milk producers?


Donald Methuen Fleming: Mr. Chairman, this is not the proper item on which this matter should be raised. Here we are dealing simply with an item to reimburse the agricultural commodities stabilization account for dry skimmed milk donated to international relief agencies and organizations. The matter which the hon. member for Essex East proposes to raise is, of course, one which could properly be raised when the estimates of the Department of Agriculture for 1959-60 are before the committee of supply.


Paul Joseph James Martin: Surely the Minister of Finance is taking a very strict procedural position when he says that we have no right under this item to raise the question I have just put to him. The item reads:
To reimburse the agricultural commodities stabilization account for dry skimmed milk donated to international relief agencies and organizations.
That is the very point. The milk producers have suggested that one way to find additional outlets for their products would be by increasing our contributions to international relief agencies and organizations, such products being directed by the various agencies concerned to receiving countries which could profit by them. Surely the minister is not furthering the passage of this item by resorting to his present procedural attitude. When he was sitting on this side, he would have regarded such an attitude as a serious abridgment of his rights as a member of parliament.


Donald Methuen Fleming: This is not a
serious abridgment of parliamentary rights. The hon. gentleman is well aware of the nature of this item. His subject is something which is entirely different from the matter now before the committee. He will have his opportunity to raise this question, and I am sure it will be discussed to the hearts' content of the hon. gentleman and any other member who is interested. But it is not a matter which concerns this item at all. This is a different year altogether.


Paul Joseph James Martin: My hon. friend takes that position, but I must say I disagree with him strongly. The brief which the producers presented yesterday to members of parliament of all political parties included among other representations-


Douglas Mason Fisher: See page 2.


Paul Joseph James Martin: I thank my parliamentary assistant for that information. In the first paragraph on page 2 of the brief it states:
Statistics show that skim milk powder is the only dairy product which can be definitely classified as surplus.
When they referred to surpluses they were, of course, bearing in mind the observations made earlier by the Minister of Agriculture, who referred to the surplus situation of agricultural production generally, a situation which in his judgment may cause a lowering of floor prices or a reluctance not to provide any floor price for other commodities.


Donald Methuen Fleming: Mr. Chairman, I rise on a point of order. My hon. friend is discussing something that does not arise on this item at all. This item has nothing to do with the subject the hon. gentleman is raising. He is talking about surpluses. This item seeks authority to reimburse the agricultural commodities stabilization account for dry skimmed milk that has been donated hitherto to international relief agencies and organizations. This is not an item that arises in the estimates of the Department of Agriculture. This is one that arises in the estimates of the Department of External Affairs. It does not relate to next year or future policy but to the present year, 1958-59. Further, it relates to something that has been done. These are provisions in favour of international agencies, and parliamentary authorization is simply asked for reimbursement of the cost of those provisions to the agricultural commodities stabilization account. My hon. friend is going on to talk about something entirely different.


Paul Joseph James Martin: Mr. Chairman, I fail to understand how the Minister of Finance can take this position. We could take the

position that until we get a statement of government policy the government ought not to be allowed to proceed as provided for in the item. The Minister should not argue now that we are not at liberty to call attention to what we believe to be inadequacies in government policy. That is surely an unwise course of action. We could suggest that there should be no reimbursement until the government declares its position.


Donald Methuen Fleming: Is that what you propose?


Paul Joseph James Martin: I simply say we could take that position. By referring to this possibility I reveal the weakness of my hon. friend's procedural argument. This is what the brief says in addition to what I have already quoted, and I invite hon. gentlemen to consider if it is not on all fours with the item now before the committee:
Many milk producers are of the opinion that our surplus food should be used for economic aid to underdeveloped countries in the Far East. Large numbers of people in this world are starving in the midst of plenty.
The brief then refers us to an article from the Financial Post on this subject. We on this side point out that if this is the situation, as undoubtedly it is, the government under this item should give consideration to the announcement of a policy that would provide assistance to the milk producers.


Some hon. Members:: Order.


Paul Joseph James Martin: Some hon. gentlemen shout "order".


Mr. Lennard:: I did not say "order"; I said you were stupid.


Paul Joseph James Martin: What hon. gentlemen are now asserting is that we are precluded from urging the government to take a step that does involve reimbursement to international organizations so as to give relief to the milk producers of Canada, who during the past few days have made representations to the government.


Frank Exton Lennard: How stupid can you be?


Douglas Mason Fisher: Mr. Chairman, further to the point made by the hon. member for Essex East may I say I did not mind his reference to me being his parliamentary assistant, as long as I am not identified with the Martin bureau of statistics.
There is a question involved here which, it seems to me, needs to be seen in the light of the reputed statement, at least, of the Minister of Agriculture that you could not even give this skim milk away. I am not going to say that he said that as a matter of truth because I did not hear him say it and 66968-9-130J
Supply-External Affairs I have not been able to find it, but I have been told by some milk producers that he did make that statement. Obviously this item is evidence which indicates that it can be given away. As a consequence I would ask the Minister of Finance the names of those particular international relief agencies. What quantities did they receive, and to what countries in the world did they distribute this particular milk? If he has the information I should like to have it.


Donald Methuen Fleming: Yes, Mr. Chairman. The donations of dry skimmed milk already made or expected to be made by the 31st day of this month are as follows: UNICEF, 9,018,166 pounds; Canadian Lutheran world relief, 2,361,750 pounds; Unitarian service committee of Canada, 224,600 pounds; CARE, 1,512,650 pounds; the Canadian council of churches, 127,600 pounds. It is expected that a further requirement will be sought by UNICEF of 350,000 pounds. This makes a total of 13,594,766 pounds.


William Moore Benidickson: What is the practice of the agricultural stabilization board in the matter of delivery? For instance, what freight charges are accounted for in this vote? What is the practice in so far as shipping and delivery costs are concerned? Where are these things delivered?


Donald Methuen Fleming: The practice in Canada has been to deliver at seaboard; that is to say, the recipient takes delivery at seaboard. This is not a uniform international practice, but it is the practice which Canada has followed.


Paul Joseph James Martin: The Minister of Agriculture is in the house tonight, and one would not expect the Minister of Finance, though his knowledge of these matters is obviously great, to be able to answer all questions dealing with agriculture. Having in mind the complaints which the minister used to make when he was on this side of the house about the minister of finance speaking on behalf of the whole government, would this not be a good opportunity for the Minister of Finance to give his colleagues, those ministers who are responsible for these particular matters, particularly when they are in the house, the opportunity to comment on matters of concern to them. The Minister of Agriculture attempted to rise a few moments ago-


Donald Methuen Fleming: No, he did not.


Paul Joseph James Martin: -to answer the question I put to him and which the Minister of Finance wished to divert for some other occasion. He wanted to leave this

Supply

Finance
matter for the estimates of the Department of Agriculture which may be up some weeks from now.


Donald Methuen Fleming: Maybe tomorrow.


Paul Joseph James Martin: These representations were made during the past few days, and I think what the Minister of Finance ought to do is permit the Minister of Agriculture who, after all, is responsible for this heavy department, to tell the house and the country what is the policy of his department with regard to the use of skim milk, particularly in underdeveloped countries. I think the Minister of Agriculture is anxious to make a speech, and he should be allowed to do so. I would ask the Minister of Finance kindly to signify to the Minister of Agriculture that he gives him permission to answer our questions.


Mr. Harkness:: Mr. Chairman, on a point of order, there is no matter of permission from the Minister of Finance to myself or to any other minister in connection with answering these questions. I should like to make that absolutely clear. The hon. member for Essex East is deliberately trying to create a completely incorrect impression as far as the house and the country generally are concerned. He is attempting to give the impression that there is some matter or difference between the Minister of Finance and myself in this. This is completely incorrect.
As the Minister of Finance has indicated, this is not an agricultural item. This is an item under external affairs. This is not the proper place to go into the operations of the Agricultural Stabilization Act. As the hon. member for Essex East well knows, as soon as we are finished with these supplementary estimates we will be going on again with the estimates of the Department of Agriculture, when he will have full opportunity to get any explanations he wants with regard to any of these transactions.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
741.	Purchase of wheat and flour to be given to commonwealth countries in south and southeast Asia to relieve food shortages and, notwithstanding section 35 of the Financial Administration Act, to authorize payments to be made pursuant to this vote up to the 1st day of April, 1960, $13,500,000.
Lester Bowles Pearson: Is this an item which concerns the Colombo plan appropriation?


Donald Methuen Fleming: No, it is a special vote.


William Moore Benidickson: On this item I want to make the point again that was made on item 734. We have here a very substantial amount of money, $13,500,000, and the statement has been made that it has not been possible to make any deliveries. We know there are only two weeks to go to the end of the fiscal

year for which we are normally asked to make appropriations at this stage of the session.
Members of the house will see the result. The result is a distortion of the over-all accounts for a fiscal year. No doubt other members of parliament will have read recently, as I did, that there was criticism in the United States of an apparent attempt to throw all conceivable and possible items of expenditure into the appropriations for the current fiscal year because of the ambition on the part of the administration there to have a balanced budget in the coming fiscal year. It was said that everybody was reconciled to a big deficit this year, and therefore everything would be thrown into the appropriations for this year in the hope of creating a good effect next year. I have the feeling that perhaps this is in the mind of the minister with respect to this very large item of $13,500,000.
We have had evidence that no deliveries have been possible yet, and I suggest that the minister should be able to estimate a little more carefully what is required up to March 31, the end of the current fiscal year. He could then ask for more than a two months' proportion for the coming fiscal year if he felt that deliveries would be impeded in any way by having less than one sixth of the appropriation.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.

[Stage Direction]
Payments to municipalities-
742.	Grants to municipalities-further amount required including authority for a grant in the amount of $44,382 to the municipality of Port Colborne, Ontario, in respect of the tax years of that municipality commencing on the 1st day of January, 1951, and ending on the 31st day of December, 1954, under section 5 of the Municipal Grants Act as in force on the 31st day of December, 1954, $1.
John Whitney Pickersgill: Before item 742 carries I am going to ask the minister a question which I know in advance is out of order. I simply wish to ask him if he will be good enough to have his officials, not tonight but on some early occasion in the future, prepare a table showing the per capita amount of the municipal grants in each of the 10 provinces. In order to explain what I am driving at, what I mean is that I should like the minister to have someone add up all the grants in Ontario, divide that total amount by the population of Ontario, and do the same for each of the other provinces so we will see precisely what this means to one province as compared with another. I wonder whether the minister would be good enough to answer my question.


Donald Methuen Fleming: My hon. friend indicated at the outset when he put his question that he realized it was out of order. There will be an opportunity for him to take up that subject. That information can be had. I would have expected that he would put his question on the order paper, but certainly we are glad to give information of that nature.


John Whitney Pickersgill: I thank the minister for his courtesy.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.

[Stage Direction]
747. Departmental administration-further amount required including an amount of $3,000 to assist in defraying the costs of the congress of corrections to be held in Canada in 1959, $39,800.
Paul Joseph James Martin: Mr. Chairman, we appreciate your diligence in calling the items, but do not be too diligent, because it does not give us a chance to follow item by item. I want to ask the minister under this item if he can tell us whether or not it has been possible to obtain any information from the government of the province of Ontario that would facilitate the desire of the federal government to appoint an additional judge in the county of Essex.
My hon. friend will remember that the Minister of Justice was asked this question. He indicated that last year parliament had acquired the necessary legislative authority to appoint a judge in that county, but that there was some difficulty arising out of the procedural requirements in the province of Ontario. Can the Minister of Finance, who is serving tonight for all his colleagues, answer what may to him be an unimportant question but which to the people of Essex county is a very important one?


Donald Methuen Fleming: There is nothing in this item for judges' salaries.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Mr. Chairman, this item deals, of course, with the departmental administration of the Department of Justice. I should like to join with the hon. member for Essex East in asking the minister, who is speaking for all his colleagues tonight, if he will make representations both to the Minister of Justice and to the Prime Minister with a view to seeing, now that three months have passed, that a chief justice is appointed in the province of Newfoundland so the courts can function properly and appeals can be heard in the supreme court, where there are only three judges. The minister, being a lawyer, will appreciate quite well that any litigant taking an appeal from a trial judge and having only one other judge to go to is,
Supply-Justice
because of the dilatory conduct of the present government, being denied justice in that province.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR Special services-
750. To provide for expenses of the special services branch including expenses for the promotion of a program for combating seasonal unemployment, the organization and use of workers for farming and related industries and assistance to the provinces under agreements entered into with the provinces by the Minister of Labour with the approval of the governor in council, and the movement, reception, supervision and welfare of workers from outside Canada to work on farms and other essential employment where Canadian labour is not available to meet the need-further amount required, $100,000.
Douglas Mason Fisher: I am interested in what part of this item for the winter works project and the advertising campaign usually wrapped up in the phrase, "Do it now".


Donald Methuen Fleming: It is all in connection with the winter work publicity program.


Douglas Mason Fisher: And it has nothing to do with the billboard signs or anything like that?


Donald Methuen Fleming: It is part of the publicity campaign for combating seasonal unemployment in the winter. It is in addition to the item that was voted at the last session for that purpose.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Can the minister bring the committee up to date as to the number of persons who are employed in the various winter work programs being carried on by the government?


Donald Methuen Fleming: The winter work programs, or expenditures on winter work programs as such, do not arise under this item at all. This is an item that is designed to provide for publicity to draw the attention of the public to the desirability of undertaking their own work programs during the winter and thus meeting the problem of seasonal unemployment.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Do I correctly interpret the minister, then, that this item is for the purpose of providing employment for certain advertising agencies?


Donald Methuen Fleming: No, Mr. Chairman, my hon. friend would not be correct in drawing that conclusion.


Paul Joseph James Martin: Mr. Chairman, I am sure the house would be very happy if the Minister of Labour were here tonight to give' Us some information in connection with this item. As the Minister of Finance has said,

Supply-Labour
this item is not related to the winter work program which has been responsible for placing in employment only some 23,000 people out of almost half a million men and women out of work during the course of the present winter. But as this is a scheme which is intended, and quite properly so, to combat seasonal unemployment it would be very interesting and useful for the house to have some report from the Minister of Finance as to the results of this program.
The amount of this item is $100,000 and if the program were capable of producing employment for a lot of people during the autumn and winter then, of course, there would be the fullest support for it. But as a means of understanding its effectiveness, in view of the fact that unemployment is still a major problem in Canada surely we have the right and indeed the duty to ask the Minister of Finance, who is substituting tonight not only for the Minister of Agriculture but for the Minister of Labour and for the Minister of Justice, to tell us how many men have been put to work under this scheme.


Donald Methuen Fleming: I do not think any hon. member of this house is likely to be misled by the remarks that have just been made by the hon. member for Essex East. But for the record let it be stated that it is the time honoured and invariable practice of this house-and honoured at all times during the time he was a minister-that the supplementary estimates, especially the final supplementary estimates, are piloted through the house in their entirety by the Minister of Finance.


Lester Bowles Pearson: No, no.


Donald Methuen Fleming: Yes; that has been the invariable practice.


Lionel Chevrier: That is so far from the fact.


Donald Methuen Fleming: Therefore I am not substituting for other ministers. I am simply discharging the same function my predecessors have discharged with respect to supplementary estimates, particularly final supplementary estimates, for many a year.
As I pointed out, Mr. Chairman, this is not an item related to an expenditure by the federal government for providing government work. This is an item that relates to appeals that have been made to persons throughout the length and breadth of Canada to undertake their own work programs with a view to providing work during the winter time in order to meet seasonal unemployment. Last summer a national winter employment conference was held in Ottawa. Out of that conference certain recommendations arose.

One of them was that the federal government should extend and intensify the advertising program which it had successfully conducted in the previous winter. This intensified advertising program has been carried on and, I am told, with gratifying results.


Lester Bowles Pearson: I must refresh the minister's memory on one statement he made, namely that the invariable practice, when we were on that side of the house, was to let the minister of finance take care of all the supplementary estimates. He will recall that on many occasions he used to ask me questions on external affairs on the supplementary estimates.


Donald Methuen Fleming: No.


Lester Bowles Pearson: If he will go back and read some of the old Hansards he will find that.


Donald Methuen Fleming: I invite my hon. friend to go back and read Hansard for the month of March year by year, and there he will find the correction of his own statement.


Lester Bowles Pearson: I shall be glad to do that. But perhaps the minister will agree with me that I ought to be able to remember whether I was in the chamber on the supplementary estimates when external affairs estimates came up for consideration, whether or not he was. What I am asking is quite in order, I think, on this item. Can he give us a breakdown of this figure of $100,000?


Donald Methuen Fleming: Certainly. Of this total, $5,000 is for publication of informational material. It is to provide for the printing of additional bulletins and other information material arising out of the expansion of the winter employment publicity program. The other $95,000 is for newpaper, radio, film and other publicity.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Will the minister say whether that is the total amount being spent on the program? Before he answers that question I should like to supplement what the Leader of the Opposition has said. If the minister would care to look up the discussion on the supplementary estimates on one occasion when I was minister of citizenship and immigration, he will find that during the course of a whole afternoon I was subjected to questions, almost all of which were irrelevant to the item, by his colleague the Minister of Justice, and that no exception was taken by the government of that day to that procedure because we believed in giving parliament the information to which it was entitled.


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh.


John Whitney Pickersgill: It seems to me that if the minister is not himself capable of giving the information to which parliament is entitled, we are entitled to have here the minister who has that information. What I should like to know is whether this is the full amount required for this program. I should also like to know how much of this amount is to be paid to advertising agencies, and to what advertising agencies.


Donald Methuen Fleming: On the side of publication of information material, the house provided in the main estimates $10,000. This is an additional $5,000 to make a total of $15,000 for that purpose. With respect to newspaper, radio, film and other publicity, parliament has already appropriated in the previous estimates $140,200. Parliament is now asked to provide a further $95,000 for this purpose, to make a total of $235,200.


John Whitney Pickersgill: The minister has not answered my question about how much is used for advertising agencies and to which agencies it is paid. My colleague the hon. member for Kenora-Rainy River has just drawn my attention to the fact that $600,000 was already voted for this purpose in the main estimates. When another $100,000 is added to that amount it is a sizeable sum merely for promotional activities, particularly when being recommended by a Minister of Finance who, when he was on this side of the house, used to bore us hour after hour with speeches about the unnecessary waste of public funds on publications, information and advertising.
I do not want to distract the minister from getting the information I am asking for. I should like to know the names of the advertising agencies and how much is being paid not merely in connection with this additional amount but in connection with the main estimate as well.


Donald Methuen Fleming: That information could not be provided in full now, anyway, because we have not yet come to the end of the fiscal year; but that is information that is always given in full in the public accounts, and will be so given.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Will the minister give us such information as is now available?


Donald Methuen Fleming: I shall be glad to furnish my hon. friend with such information. I am not in a position to do it at the moment.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Would the minister consent to allowing this item to stand and proceed with some of the others?


Some hon. Members:: No, no.
Supply-Labour


John Whitney Pickersgill: Unless he is able to provide us with the information to which the committee is entitled, I think he should accept my suggestion.


Lester Bowles Pearson: If the Minister of Labour were in the chamber perhaps he would have that information available with respect to advertising agencies, and would be glad to give it to the committee.


Paul Joseph James Martin: The ministers should be in their places.


Mr. Caron:: Can the minister tell us how much has been spent for newspaper advertising, how much for radio, how much for films, what is meant by "other publicity", and how much has been spent for television?


Mr. Robichaud:: Mr. Chairman, I rise on a point of order. Before we proceed further it might be advisable to report to the Speaker that there is a desk out of order, in order that it may be repaired.


Alexis Pierre Caron: I want a breakdown of this item showing how much has been spent for newspaper advertising, how much for radio, how much for television, how much for films and how much for other publicity. I should also like the minister to tell us what he means by "other publicity".


Donald Methuen Fleming: I think my hon. friend is well aware of the fact that this is the form in which this item came before the house and was approved in principle. As to a detailed breakdown, my hon. friend in effect is asking the same question that was asked by the hon. member for Bona-vista-Twillingate. The information will be given, as usual, in full in the public accounts. As to the breakdown, the whole thing will be given there in the proper way.


Alexis Pierre Caron: I do not admit or accept the suggestion that because an hon. member has asked a question which has not been answered, it cannot be asked by any other member. Because the hon. member for Bonavista-Twillingate has asked a question similar to this one, which the minister has not answered, the minister seems to think I have no right to come back and ask that same question again. He tells me that this information will appear in the public accounts. But this is a new item.


Donald Methuen Fleming: No.


Alexis Pierre Caron: It is a new item. It is in addition to the item that was voted. It is a new amount of $100,000. According to standing order 59, subsection 2, we have the right to know the answer.

Supply-Labour
The hon. gentleman laughs. That shows his intelligence; he does not understand anything. It would be a lot better if the minister would stand up and answer. The minister cannot do that. He should not laugh that way, because we have the right to know, and as long as he does not answer we will keep asking. I will keep the house waiting so that the minister will give his reply. Since the beginning of the debate the minister has tried to stop the opposition from asking questions, and is refusing to give answers to questions we have a right to ask. He has not the right to stop parliament by refusing to answer questions.


Joseph Pierre Albert Sévigny: May I remind the hon. members that the use they are making of their desks is not quite parliamentary. Therefore I must ask the hon. members of the house to please refrain from this rather childish display which has been going on for the last five minutes.


Lester Bowles Pearson: Mr. Chairman, I think it has been rather a childish display on the other side in the serious way in which they approach the expenditure of public funds.. What we asked the minister was a perfectly proper question, namely for a breakdown of an expenditure of $100,000 which he is asking parliament to appropriate. In our request for that breakdown we asked him to give us information as to how this money is being spent, and through what private agencies it is being spent. But the minister said, "Wait for the public accounts a year from now". That is a strange constitutional position to be taken by the Minister of Finance, of all people.


Herbert Wilfred Herridge: Mr. Chairman, I want to support the other speakers in this respect. As the leader of the official opposition has just said, the minister replied that we would get the details in the public accounts, which means a year after the money has been voted by this parliament. We in this group think that is an affront to parliament. We are entitled to know the details before we pass the item.


Donald Methuen Fleming: The hon. member is completely overlooking the fact that he is dealing with an appropriation. Parliament is being asked to provide this money. It is something new to have the government asked to give the details of expenditures when an amount is being appropriated for a purpose, only part of which amount has been spent. The proper and constitutional position, and the one which as far as I am aware has always been recognized, is that a breakdown of expenditure is given to the house in the public accounts after proper audit. What the house is now being asked to approve is the

appropriation of a further sum for a purpose already approved by the house.
Mr. Chairman, the house had this matter before it at the last session, when it approved this type of expenditure in principle and approved the amounts that I referred to earlier. This is a request for sums in addition to those previous sums, and these will be fully accounted for to parliament. This is the first time that I recall a request being made for a breakdown of all expenditures made under the main item when a further amount has been asked for in the final sup-plementaries. I have already indicated to the house that this information of course will be given to the house, and if the house wishes this before this amount has been audited or gone through the Auditor General's hands or through the public accounts, this information can be given in the form in which it will be available to us when the money has been expended. But I hope I will not be asked to provide a breakdown of all expenditure when we are asking for an appropriation, part of which only has been expended.


Mr. Hardie:: What do you base your appropriation on?


Donald Methuen Fleming: It is based upon the expanded program which was asked for since parliament met last. Some of this expenditure has been made under appropriation, and we are now asking for this further sum to provide for the cost of the expansion of the program which has been undertaken through to March 31.


Lester Bowles Pearson: Mr. Chairman, the minister must know, as a student of parliamentary procedure, as well as a matter of constitutional propriety, that there is no difference whatever between a supplementary estimate and a main estimate in so far as procedure and constitutional practice are concerned. What we are being asked to do is to vote $100,000 for a stated purpose. That money has to be spent presumably between now and March 31. It has to be spent between the day it is voted and March 31, 10 or 11 days hence. We are asking the minister to tell us how this money will be spent during that short time, through what agencies, and the names of those agencies. The very fact that there is a short time between this date and the end of the financial year, for which $100,000 is being asked of parliament, surely justifies us in our curiosity as to how this money will be spent and in asking for the details.


Donald Methuen Fleming: Mr. Chairman, the hon. gentleman has misapprehended what I

said. I did not say this was all going to be spent between now and the end of March. On the contrary-


John Whitney Pickersgill: Has some of it been spent already?


Donald Methuen Fleming: Yes.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Before it has been voted?


Donald Methuen Fleming: No. This was appropriated in the proper manner. This was provided under miscellaneous minor and unforeseen expenses, according to the vote provided for that purpose by parliament. This is in part a recoupment and in part an estimate of the amount required to carry through the expanded publicity program to March 31.
Now, in dealing with the hon. gentleman's first point, we have had this matter up before. The point of difference between a main item and a supplementary item is that the question of principle is deemed to be decided when the main item is approved. We have had that up for discussion at the present session and it has been the subject of rulings. No one questions at all the right of full discussion of the amount. I was dealing with the difference in the matter of approval in principle of the purpose of an item.


Lester Bowles Pearson: Am I to understand that a part at least of this money-and perhaps the minister may be able to tell us what part- has already been spent under another vote, and that we are now being asked for a new appropriation to cover money already spent under another vote? Is that the situation?


Donald Methuen Fleming: Oh, yes, that is the situation, and it is a situation which constantly arises, year after year, in the case of supplementary estimates; because parliament has for many years made provision in the vote to which I have referred-the vote for miscellaneous, minor and unforeseen expenditures-to deal with amounts, usually not major amounts, which are required during the year to meet unforeseen contingencies.
This is the way in which this item has arisen. The need for an expansion in the program was indicated; it was asked for by the conference which met here last summer, and having regard to the useful results achieved by this expenditure previously, it was deemed desirable that the expenditure be increased as recommended by that conference.


Paul Joseph James Martin: These are important matters, and one regrets very much that the Minister of Finance should have taken the position he has in answering the comments made by the Leader of the Opposition and other hon. members. The situation is not at all altered because of the fact that this is a supplementary item involving a principle with 66968-9-131
Supply-Labour
which we have previously had an opportunity to deal. The fact before us now is that we are being asked to vote an additional sum of $100,000 to provide for the expenditures of the special services branch, and this special services branch item includes expenditure for the promotion of a program for combating seasonal unemployment, the organization and use of workers for farming and related industries. Personnel are being employed by this administration for these laudable purposes, yet the most we have been able to obtain from the Minister of Finance is a statement that the results have been gratifying.
That is not sufficient. We want to know what results justify this statement about gratification, because the unemployment statistics certainly do not support the statement made by the Minister of Finance. We are entitled under this vote to know who are the individuals whose expenses are being provided. We are entitled to know, as the hon. member for Bonavista-Twillingate asked, what advertising companies are being used for the purpose mentioned. We all remember that at the beginning of this session evidence was produced in this house showing that employment was being given in a particular section of Manitoba at the instance of the Conservative party organization, and great complaint was registered against that practice. No objection was taken by hon. members opposite with regard to the allegations made.
Are the moneys we are now being called upon to vote to be used in that manner? The Minister of Finance can satisfy our legitimate curiosity in this matter by giving us the information for which he was asked. If he does not possess that information why does he not call for his colleague the Minister of Labour, who undoubtedly has it at his finger tips? And if the Minister of Labour is not here, then surely, in view of the rights of an opposition and of all members of parliament to know why money is being voted, this item ought to stand.
I suggest to the Minister of Finance, in the friendly spirit I always adopt in any observations I have to make regarding him, that he should take this advice. Simply to expect us to pass a vote for $100,000 for the purpose contemplated in this item when we know there have been abuses in this field in the past-abuses which have been drawn to the attention of the house in respect to one of the constituencies in Manitoba-is asking the committee too much. One president of a Conservative association said he was the man who gave work in a particular constituency. I do not believe that a similar situation exists all over Canada, but we were told, according to the Winnipeg Free Press,

Supply-Labour
and the story was not denied, that this was the practice in that constituency, at least.


Mr. Palletl:: Is the hon. member opposed
to the winter work program?


Paul Joseph James Martin: The hon. member is among those who should be very concerned about providing work for the unemployed. He not only needs work for his constituents in the winter, but he had better see that this government takes steps to provide work in his constituency for a longer period than that.
It will not be sufficient for the Minister of Finance simply to say that he has not this information, or that it can be given in three or four months. We are being asked to vote moneys now, and we are entitled to have all the facts before us in order to enable us to determine whether or not this particular item should be voted as recommended by the government.


Douglas Mason Fisher: Since the hon. member for Essex East has raised the Manitoba question, I might point out that we were given an undertaking some time ago by the Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources that when the hon. member for Brandon-Souris was back in the house he would explain this particular incident in connection with the work program in that area. I wonder whether the minister might take this opportunity of doing so, since the question has been raised?


The Deputy Chairman:: Shall this item carry?


John Whitney Pickersgill: No, no. I have two or three more questions I should like to ask the minister. Surely the minister knows how much has been taken from the unforeseen contingencies vote, and how much new money he is asking. I may say that the Minister of Finance is not the only person in this chamber who has presented supplementary estimates. There are some of us on this side of the chamber who have done so. Certainly anyone who has ever presented supplementary estimates knows that the first question a minister is supposed to be able to answer is why he needs the extra money; and before he can explain that he must, of course, know how much of the main vote has been spent. Perhaps 1 have put that in a fashion sufficiently elementary for even the Minister of Finance to apprehend.


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh.


John Whitney Pickersgill: I think we are entitled to know how much of the original appropriation of $600,000 has been spent, how much has been added and spent out of the unforeseen contingencies account, and how much of this

money it is intended to spend between March 19 and March 31. Surely these three figures can be given right away. If they cannot it means that someone has fallen down in preparing information for the minister to give to the house, because that is the first question any competent minister asks his staff before he brings estimates of this sort before the committee. He says, "How much is left in the main vote, and why do we need this extra money?" It is elementary. It is so obvious that I should have thought even the Minister of Finance, after his 20 months in office and 18 hours of work a day, would have found that out. Perhaps the minister would give us this information.


Donald Methuen Fleming: Perhaps the hon. gentleman would go on to indicate his further questions. I have sent a communication to the official concerned, but he is ill tonight and the information will not be available tonight for that reason. If the hon. gentleman will continue with his further questions and put them on record we will be glad to obtain the information.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Since the minister cannot provide this information tonight I will indicate briefly the other questions I have in mind. They are largely a reiteration of those I have already asked, but I will ask them in a different form so the minister will have no trouble about providing the information.
I should like to ask the minister if he can tell us how much of this money has already been spent. I am not talking about what he proposes to spend, but for the amount spent up to the latest date at which the bills were paid, or any other convenient accounting date. I do not expect the minister to tell us the position as at March 19, but I should like him to say how much has been spent to the latest available date on newspaper advertising, radio advertising and film advertising, and what are the other categories of publicity. In particular I should like to know how much has been spent through advertising agencies, and what are the names of the advertising agencies.
This is the kind of information which hon. members opposite, when they were over here, were constantly seeking. It is something which parliament is perfectly entitled to know before it appropriates an additional amount for a vote of this sort, and it is the kind of information which I think should be provided.
To assist the minister to get on with some of the other items, I suggest he should let this item stand until tomorrow morning, when we can make an intelligent decision about it.


Donald Methuen Fleming: That, in the circumstances, is a course which is agreeable to me. I point out again that the official with whom I have sought direct communication is ill this evening, and that is the situation we are facing.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Is the minister willing to let the item stand?


Donald Methuen Fleming: Yes.
The Depuiy Chairman:	Does the committee agree to let this item stand?


Some hon. Members:: Agreed.
Item stands.
Vocational training co-ordination-
751. To provide for carrying out the purposes of the Vocational Training Co-ordination Act and agreements made thereunder; to authorize the Minister of Labour to enter into agreements with any province on terms approved by the governor in council to provide financial assistance to vocational schools, and training under youth training projects and to provide for the expenditures thereunder and under vocational training agreements entered into in previous years-payments to the provinces-further amount required, $854,856.


Douglas Mason Fisher: I should like to know how much of this appropriation is going to the province of Quebec.


Herbert Wilfred Herridge: While the minister is looking up that information, I should like to say that the members of the C.C.F. group support wholeheartedly the purpose of this item. This supplementary item is for a considerable sum, $854,856, and I should be glad if the minister could inform us whether this means that there has been an increase in the number of vocational training schools or a substantial increase in the number of pupils attending these schools in the various provinces. Can he gives us some idea why this extra money is required? Is it because the act referred to in the item is producing increasing results?


Donald Methuen Fleming: Mr. Chairman, I may say to my hon. friend that the enrolments in apprenticeship training schools during the current year have shown significant increases in the provinces of Nova Scotia, Ontario, Alberta and British Columbia that were not foreseen when the main estimates were approved by this house. I think the committee will be gratified to know that extended use of the facilities provided for apprenticeship training is being made.


Mr. Denis:: Mr. Chairman, do I understand that there is nothing for the province of Quebec in this vote


Donald Methuen Fleming: Part of the increase that is provided in item No. 751 arises by reason of an increase in the enrolment of those particular provinces. I may point out 66968-9-1314
Supply-Labour
that all the provinces share on the same basis according to the terms of the scheme. The province of Quebec has made extensive use of the facilities of this vocational training plan. As I believe the hon. gentleman is aware, it has been a very successful example of federal-provincial co-operation right across Canada.
In reply to the question asked by the hon. member for Kootenay West, I mentioned the increase in apprenticeship training but there is also another matter I might mention. When the main estimates for 1958-59 were passed provision was made for an expenditure of $4,782,000 for vocational and technical schools assistance, including $3 million for capital assistance. Present indications are that payments to the provinces this year for annual and capital projects will total $5,148,484. Included in this forecast of expenditures is the sum of $547,000 relating to 1957-58 commitments which had not reached the point of being paid at March 31, 1958. In addition there is provision here to restore an amount deducted in the main estimates which represented the estimated amount by which the actual payments were expected to fall short of the maximum amount set out therein. That was a figure of $300,000.
As to the final distribution among the provinces for the fiscal year, it is not possible to give that yet. What we are dealing with here is an estimate of the sum required according to these expanded programs for the fiscal year. The actual breakdown as among the provinces will not be available until after March 31.


Azellus Denis: Mr. Chairman, I do not wish to delay the committee unduly, but if the minister has the total amounts surely he could tell us what part of this large sum has been spent in the province of Quebec by agreement of some kind. I am not against this vote, but I am interested in knowing what part of this total amount has been spent in the province of Quebec by agreement with that province.


Donald Methuen Fleming: Mr. Chairman, the total amount required for the vocational training co-ordination payments to the provinces is estimated at $8,210,756 including this proposed supplementary appropriation of $854,856. I cannot give the hon. gentleman at this time the distribution to date. I can obtain the figures for payments made up to the last date of payment. We are dealing here with an estimate of the amount required to carry through the entire program to March 31.


Azellus Denis: Perhaps as a start the minister would be kind enough to give the figures he has, because we are interested in this vote and in getting our share. If it is to

Supply-Labour
be shared by the provinces surely the province of Quebec should be entitled to at least a part of the $8 million being spent by the taxpayers of all Canada.


Donald Methuen Fleming: All the provinces share in this appropriation in accordance with the use they make of it. If the hon. member wishes to know what amount has been actually spent and what the actual distribution is up to the last date of payment I shall be glad to secure that information and send it to him.


Lionel Chevrier: Mr. Chairman, may I ask this question of the minister, which perhaps follows upon what the hon. member for St. Denis has been saying. Following the answer that has been given, does this mean that Quebec is accepting aid for education?


Donald Methuen Fleming: This vocational training plan has been in effect, for some years, as my hon. friend is aware, and Quebec has always participated actively in the vocational training program.


Lionel Chevrier: The youth aspect of this item includes scholarships does it not?


Donald Methuen Fleming: Mr. Chairman, it is vocational training.


Lionel Chevrier: But the item refers to training under youth training projects and to providing for expenditures thereunder. Does that not include scholarships?


Donald Methuen Fleming: No, Mr. Chairman.


Azellus Denis: Mr. Chairman, as we cannot obtain the right figures perhaps it would be a good thing to let this vote stand until a later date in order to obtain details about it. If I am correct in my recollection I believe the province of Quebec has accepted part of this vote in some years and in some other years it has refused it, or has forgotten to renew agreements in some fiscal years.
As far as the fiscal year 1958-59 is concerned, I have a special reason for asking that this vote should stand until we get a precise answer to this question. I must assure the minister I am not against the vote. On the contrary I am in favour of this vote, so much in favour of it that I would like to see the province of Quebec share in this large amount.


Donald Methuen Fleming: Mr. Chairman, the province of Quebec, as the hon. member knows, receives its full share according to the plan.


Azellus Denis: It receives its full share under the agreements it makes, but When there is no agreement it gets nothing at all. Is that what I heard from the- Minister of Finance?	,	[DOT]: [DOT] .


Donald Methuen Fleming: No, that is not what you heard from the Minister of Finance.


Azellus Denis: What did the minister say? Suppose Quebec does not sign an agreement as far as this vote is concerned. Does that mean the province receives its share just the same?


Some hon. Members:: Order.


Azellus Denis: I am waiting for the answer of the minister. I do not have the books with me.


Mr. Stinson:: Get them, then.


Azellus Denis: I am sure the minister could easily obtain this information. It would only require a moment tomorrow for him to tell the committee what is the situation, if this vote were to stand until tomorrow or until the next sitting of the committee. I want the province of Quebec to get its share of a good vote such as this.


Donald Methuen Fleming: Mr. Chairman, the hon. member keeps reiterating that he wants' Quebec to have its full share. The fact is that Quebec does receive its full share. All the provinces share in this vocational train11 ing plan. This is not a new thing. This plan has been in operation for many years. As a matter of fact I think the plan has been in operation during nearly all the time the hon. member has been in this house, because this plan goes away back before the war.


John Whitney Pickersgill: It was started by Norman
Rogers.


Donald Methuen Fleming: Yes, it goes back to the middle thirties, as I recall it. There is nothing new here, and Quebec has always participated in it.


Paul Joseph James Martin: The hon. member wants to know the amount.


Azellus Denis: That is all I ask. To what extent does Quebec benefit during this fiscal year?


Donald Methuen Fleming: Quebec has benefited to the same extent as every other province, Mr. Chairman.


Azellus Denis: That is not an answer.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Mr. Chairman, did I understand the minister to say in reply to the question of the hon. member for Laurier that there were no scholarships under this scheme? Speaking from recollection my understanding is that a part of this scheme, related to scholarships, particularly in the youth training field.
It may be that they have been dropped in recent years, but I wish the minister would clear.'up (that , point..	.	,


Donald Methuen Fleming: I am told that there is a small scholarship fund provided within the ambit of this scheme.


Lionel Chevrier: It follows, then, that a portion of this is being paid toward education.


Douglas Mason Fisher: Mr. Chairman, I should like to ask the minister whether these particular scholarships are what are known as dominion-provincial bursaries. I should also like to know whether any of this extended program, or extended expansion, is going on under what is called schedule "M"; that is, apprenticeship training, not so much for youth but for people who are in effect being retrained under the unemployment insurance commission.


Donald Methuen Fleming: The answer to my hon. friend's question is in the negative. He evidently refers to that type of training which is for rehabilitation purposes, and comes under schemes that are supervised by the Department of National Health and Welfare. The type of program that we are dealing with here is one providing for apprenticeship training and vocational and technical schools assistance.


Douglas Mason Fisher: I understood that schedule "M" was administered by the Minister of Labour.


Donald Methuen Fleming: I am sorry; part of the program does include unemployed workers. My hon. friend and I were at crosspurposes a moment ago and talking about two different things. Here are the items in the schedule which I think is the schedule to which my hon. friend refers. There is youth training; there is apprenticeship training; vocational and technical schools assistance, which is the big item; there is foremanship and supervisory training, which is a very small item; training of unemployed workers; training of disabled persons; training of persons to fit them for the armed forces; training of persons for other departments of the federal government; vocational correspondence courses. These latter branches of the program are quite small in comparison. The large items are vocational and technical schools assistance and the apprenticeship training.


Douglas Mason Fisher: Mr. Chairman, one of the points that interest me in this item and in the previous one that we allowed to stand is that in all our localities we have local committees, usually of interested citizens, to advise the employment officers on certain aspects, especially in initiating works under schedule "M". One of the things I am interested in is this. Are any funds given to those local committees? What budget do they operate under, or what are the facilities and services they use that are provided by the Department of Labour? I am especially interested in
Supply-Labour
knowing whether more money is being given to those local groups to initiate more work under schedule "M"? This has been one of the strongest demands this winter, but it is too late. In my constituency over 30 per cent of the labour force is not working. There is strong pressure for this program of retraining and rehabilitation of the unemployed, but so far as I know this year no one has been able to get the wider program working.
The minister says more money is being spent. I would like to know a bit more about this. If this item is going to stand as the previous one did, I would appreciate it if, when the minister comes back to the house again he would give us more information on these particular points.


Donald Methuen Fleming: I trust there is no need to stand this item. I can give my hon. friend the breakdown of these different parts of the total. I indicated that the total amount, including the present proposed additional item, is $8,210,756. Now, here are the programs into which it is broken down: Youth training, $389,076; apprenticeship training, $1,792,113; vocational and technical schools assistance, $5,148,484; foremanship and supervisory training, $12,992; training of unemployed workers, $499,021; training of disabled persons, $296,112; training of persons to fit them for the armed forces, $42,958; training of persons for other departments of the federal government, nil; vocational correspondence courses, nil. That is the breakdown of this proposed vote.


Lionel Chevrier: After the enumeration which the minister has given and the earlier one he gave in answer to an hon. member, it is not clear, and will the minister not say whether it is clear, that this is undoubtedly a contribution to education?


Donald Methuen Fleming: These are payments to the provinces in pursuance of the Vocational Training Co-ordination Act. Now, I will have to leave my hon. friend to draw his own deductions in his own way and make his own interpretation. He will do it anyway.


Lionel Chevrier: It would be easier if the minister answered the question.


Donald Methuen Fleming: I am not so sure that it would.


Alexis Pierre Caron: Can the minister tell we whether he has received any protest from the province of Quebec about federal assistance to technical schools and vocational training in the province of Quebec?
(Translation):


Mr. Johnson:: Ask Mr. Lesage.


Alexis Pierre Caron: If I did, he would indeed be able to give me an answer.

Business of the House
(Text):
Was there any protest from the province of Quebec against the help given by the federal government for educational purposes, namely educational assistance for technical schools and vocational training?


Donald Methuen Fleming: None that I am aware of, Mr. Chairman. As I have indicated, the province of Quebec has participated in this scheme now for many years.


Alexis Pierre Caron: Therefore when it comes to training of the labouring class there is no protest, but when it comes to higher education there is a protest. Is that what I am to understand from what the minister says?


Mr. Martel:: There is a difference between technical schools and education.


Alexis Pierre Caron: Just as much as there is between an intelligent man and the hon. member.


Azellus Denis: Can the minister give any serious reason why he should not allow this item to stand and go on with some other item?


Donald Methuen Fleming: Yes, I have a very good reason. It is ten o'clock.
Resolutions adopted in committee of supply this day reported and concurred in.



BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

Lionel Chevrier: May I ask the leader of the house what the business is for tomorrow, and perhaps we might get some indication of what it will be for the early part of next week?


Howard Charles Green: Mr. Speaker, tomorrow we intend to move concurrence in the Senate
amendments to Bill No. C-26, to amend the Northwest Territories Act, which appears as the first item on today's order paper. Then we shall continue with the supplementary estimates.
It is always somewhat of a problem to hold the members of the other place here beyond certain days. I think we shall have royal assent tomorrow at 5.45, and we would hope it will be possible to have these supplementary estimates through and the bill passed here and in the other place and assented to. Then we will take agricultural estimates.
Monday will be private members' day. On Tuesday we shall start with item No. 7, the resolution concerning parliamentary secretaries, and then take item No. 8, the resolution concerning freight rates. Incidentally, I think that bill will be sent to the standing committee on railways, canals and telegraph lines. Then we will take item No. 3, the bill to amend the Canada Shipping Act, which will also go to the same standing committee, and then item No. 9, the resolution concerning the Federal-Provincial Tax-Sharing Arrangements Act.


Azellus Denis: In order that the minister may be satisfied may I suggest that the Minister of Finance get the answers to the questions we asked just before 10 o'clock.


Lionel Chevrier: May I ask the minister if on Wednesday we will go on with any of the unfinished business announced for Tuesday?


Howard Charles Green: Yes, Mr. Speaker.


[Stage Direction]
It being three minutes after 10 o'clock the house adjourned, without question put, pursuant to standing order.

[Stage Direction]
The following answers, deposited with the Clerk of the house, are printed in the official report of debates pursuant to standing order 39:

Mr. Argue: 1.	Who are the senior officers of each branch of the national museum of Canada?
2.	What positions do each of them hold?
3.	What are the duties and responsibilities of each?
4.	When was each officer appointed?
5.	What are the qualifications of each of these senior officers for the position he or she now occupies?
6.	What is the citizenship status of each of these officers?
7.	What salary does each officer receive?
Answer by: Hon. Alvin Hamilton (Minister
of Northern Affairs and National Resources) :
As of the date of the question (February 19):
1.	(a) Dr. L. S. Russell, (b) Dr. A. E. Porsild, (c) Dr. H. J. Scoggan, (d) Dr. A. W. F. Banfield, (e) Mr. W. E. Godfrey, (f) Dr. J. Rousseau, (g) Dr. R. S. MacNeish.
2.	(a) Director, national history branch of the national museum of Canada; (b) Biologist 5, (c) Biologist 4, (d) Biologist 5, (e) Biologist 4, (f) Director, human history branch of the national museum; (g) Biologist 5.
3.	(a) Directs the operation of the natural history branch of the national museum of Canada.
(b)	Heads the national herbarium section of the natural history branch, and acts as curator of botany, responsible for the herbarium collection; responsible for the conduct of botanical surveys and research, and for the exhibition of botanical specimens; responsible for the preparation of reports and papers on botany.
(c)	Associate curator of botany in the natural history branch, conducts botanical surveys and research, and supervises the preparation of botanical exhibits; prepares reports and papers on botany.
(d)	Head of zoology section of the natural history branch and acts as curator of zoology; responsible for the conduct of surveys and research in zoology and mammalogy, and for the exhibition of zoological and mammalogical specimens; responsible for the preparation of reports and papers on zoology and mammalogy.
Questions
(e)	Curator of ornithology in the zoology section of the natural history branch; conducts field surveys and research on the birds of Canada and supervises the preparation of ornithological exhibits; prepares reports and papers on ornithology.
(f)	Directs the operation of the human history branch of the national museum of Canada.
(g)	Heads the division of archaeology of the human history branch; responsible for the conduct of surveys and research in archaeology, physical anthropology, ethno-history and ethno-botany; responsible for the preparation of exhibits, and for the preparation of reports and papers on these subjects.
4.	(a) To geological survey, October 1, 1930 to June 30, 1937; to department: July 1, 1950; to present position: November 10, 1956.
(b)	To department: April 7, 1926; to present position: April 1, 1956.
(c)	To department: June 4, 1947; to present position: June 4, 1947.
(d)	To department: May 15, 1946; to present classification: September 27, 1957.
(e)	To department: February 5, 1947; to present position: January 1, 1953.
(f)	To department: January 1, 1957; to present position: January 1, 1957.
(g)	To department: June 20, 1949; to present position: April 1, 1958.
5.	(a) B.Sc., M.A., Ph.D.; (b) B.A., Ph.D.; (c) B.Sc., M.Sc., Ph.D.; (d) B.A., M.A., Ph.D.; (e) B.Sc.; (f) B.A., D.Sc.,(Ph.D.); (g) B.A., M.A., Ph.D.
6.	(a) Canadian citizen, (b) Canadian citizen, (c) Canadian citizen, (d) Canadian citizen, (e) Canadian citizen, (f) Canadian citizen, (g) American citizen.
7.	(a) $11,000, (b) $9,420, (c) $8,580, (d) $8,700, (e) $8,220, (f) $11,000, (g) $8,340.
POSTAL STATION "o", ST. LAURENT, QUE.

Question No. 276-Mr. Rouleau:
1.	Did the postmaster general or other members of the cabinet receive written representations from the mayor of St. Laurent, his honour Maurice Cousineau, requesting that the postal station "O" located in St. Laurent, be named St. Laurent post office?
2.	If so, on what date were such representations received?
Answer by: Hon. W. M. Hamilton (Postmaster General):
1.	Yes.
2.	September 11, 1958.

Supply-Items Passed
[The following items were passed in committee of supply]:


DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
[Stage Direction]
Terminable services-
734.	Purchase of flour to be given to the United Nations relief and works agency for Palestine refugees in the Near East-further amount required and, notwithstanding section 35 of the Financial Administration Act, to authorize payments to be made pursuant to this vote up to the 1st day of April, 1960, $1,500,000.
735.	Canadian government's assessment toward financing the United Nations emergency force in respect of the calendar year 1959 in the amount of $472,287 U.S., notwithstanding that payment may exceed or fall short of the equivalent in Canadian dollars, estimated as of March, 1959, which is $458,118.
736.	Canadian government's contribution towards the Far Eastern program of the intergovernmental committee on European migration, $60,000.
737.	Gift of two clerks' tables to the parliament of the West Indies, $2,600.
738.	Gift of furnishings to the information office of the headquarters of the United Nations educational, scientific and cultural organization, $5,000.
739.	Grant to the Canadian Atlantic co-ordinating committee for organizing a youth conference on the North Atlantic treaty organization, $2,000.
740.	To reimburse the agricultural commodities stabilization account for dry skimmed milk donated to international relief agencies and organizations, $951,634.
741.	Purchase of wheat and flour to be given to commonwealth countries in south and southeast Asia to relieve food shortages and, notwithstanding section 35 of the Financial Administration Act, to authorize payments to be made pursuant to this vote up to the 1st day of April, 1960, $13,500,000.
[Stage Direction]
Special services-
Payments to municipalities-*
742.	Grants to municipalities-further amount required including authority for a grant in the amount of $44,382 to the municipality of Port Colborne, Ontario, in respect of the tax years of that municipality commencing on the 1st day of January, 1951, and ending on the 31st day of December, 1954, under section 5 of the Municipal Grants Act as in force on the 31st day of December, 1954, $1.
Contingencies and miscellaneous-
743.	Telephone service at Ottawa for all departments-further amount required, $28,000.
744.	To authorize the treasury board to delete from the accounts certain debts due to and claims of Her Majesty, each of which is in excess of $1,000, amounting in the aggregate to $907,950.75, $1.
[Stage Direction]
Field services-
745.	Field services administration-further amount required, $20,000.
Special-
746.	Canadian share of expenses of the international commissions, as detailed in the estimates- further amount required, $20,000.
[Stage Direction]
A-Department-
747.	Departmental administration-further amount required including an amount of $3,000 to assist in defraying the costs of the congress of corrections to be held in Canada in 1959, $39,800. Northwest Territories territorial court-
748.	Administration, including administration of justice-Northwest Territories - further amount required, $8,900.
Yukon territorial court-
749.	Administration, including administration of justice-Yukon Territory-further amount required, $19,000.
[Stage Direction]
Friday, March 20, 1959