1958-05-29

WELCOME TO SECRETARY GENERAL OF NORTH ATLANTIC TREATY ORGANIZATION

Right Hon. J. G. Diefenbaker (Prime Minister):: Mr. Speaker, while ordinarily one does not refer to any occupants of the galleries, this is an exceptional day in that we have present Paul Henri Spaak, secretary general of NATO, to whom I am sure all of us would wish to pay our respects.


Mr. Speaker:: I thank the Prime Minister for drawing our attention to our distinguished visitor. May I express on behalf of the House of Commons our appreciation of the visit to our diplomatic gallery today of His Excellency Mr. Paul Henri Spaak, secretary general of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. We welcome him not only as secretary general of NATO, but as a distinguished parliamentarian, former minister of foreign affairs and prime minister of Belgium, as well as president of the first assembly of the United Nations Organization.
(Translation):
May I express, on behalf of the House of Commons, our great appreciation of the visit to our diplomatic gallery today of His Excellency Mr. Paul Henri Spaak, secretary general of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, distinguished parliamentarian and former prime minister of Belgium. We are happy to be honoured by the presence of this distinguished visitor and to wish him a pleasant trip in Canada.
(Text):
May I remind hon. members that Mr. Spaak has consented to address members of parliament in the railway committee room at 1.45 o'clock today.


Hon. L. B. Pearson (Leader of ihe Opposition):: Mr. Speaker, may I associate myself with your remarks, and those of the Prime Minister, of welcome to the secretary general of NATO. I do so with greater pleasure because I have had the privilege of being an old friend and colleague of Mr. Spaak in international activities.


Mr. Hazen Argue (Assiniboia):: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the C.C.F. group I would like also to welcome this distinguished visitor,
Mr. Paul Henri Spaak, to the diplomatic gallery of the House of Commons. We admire him and we respect him as an international statesman who over the years has been in the forefront of the work for peace in the world.



AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS STANDARDS ACT


Hon. D. S. Harkness (Minister of Agriculture) moved: for leave to introduce Bill No. C-17, to amend the Canada Agricultural Products Standards Act.


Some hon. Members:: Explain.


Douglas Scott Harkness: Mr. Speaker, the purpose of this bill is to extend the act to leaf tobacco so that standards may be established for interprovincial and export transactions.
Motion agreed to and bill read the first time.



CANADIAN FARM LOAN ACT


Hon. Donald M. Fleming (Minister of Finance) moved: that the house go into committee at the next sitting to consider the following resolution, which has been recommended to the house by His Excellency:
That it is expedient to introduce a measure to amend the Canadian Farm Loan Act to increase the authorized capital of the Canadian farm loan board from $4 million to $6 million.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Lester Bowles Pearson: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask the Minister of Finance, now that we are approaching the month of June, whether he is in a position to give us any indication of th'e date when he will bring down the budget.
Hon. Donald M. Fleming (Minister of
Finance): Mr. Speaker, I am not yet in a position to give that information to my hon. friend. We are endeavouring to conclude, I hope by the end of this month, the hearings of deputations who have matters to submit in that regard. We are pressing on with our labours as hard as possible.
610	HOUSE OF
Inquiries of the Ministry


Mr. G. J. Mcllraiih (Ottawa West):: I should
like to ask a supplementary question. Does all this mean that it is the intention of the Minister of Finance to delay the delivery of the budget until after the Manitoba election on June 12?


Donald Methuen Fleming: Mr. Speaker, I think hon. members will know better from experience than to draw the kind of inference that my hon. friend invites them to draw.


Mr. Pickersgill:: What experience?



PUBLIC SERVICE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Erhari Regier (Burnaby-Coquiilam):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask the Minister of Finance a question on the subject matter I inquired about yesterday. Will the minister inform the house as to what branch or officials of his department are conducting a study of the problem of the inadequate pensions of retired civil servants? Will he also indicate what instructions he has issued as to when such studies are to be completed? In other words, who exactly is doing this research and how much more time have they in which to complete it?


Donald Methuen Fleming: Mr. Speaker, it is quite obvious that this is not a proper question.



HOUSING


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. Lionel Chevrier (Laurier):: I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Public Works. Can he tell the house whether the government, through Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation, has suspended agency loans?


Hon. Howard C. Green (Minister of Public Works):: Mr. Speaker, loans under the small home loan plan are, for the time being at least, being made directly by Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation rather than through the various institutions.


Lionel Chevrier: May I ask a supplementary question. Was it not possible for the minister to give some indication of that decision during the course of the consideration of the housing legislation recently before the house?


Howard Charles Green: There is no real difference, Mr. Speaker, except that the loans are being handled entirely through the offices of Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation.



IRRIGATION


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hazen Robert Argue: May I ask
the Prime Minister if he can bring the house up to date on the negotiations with Saskatchewan for an agreement for the construction of the South Saskatchewan dam, and whether any negotiations are taking place with a view to assisting the province of Saskatchewan in financing its share of the cost?
Right Hon. J. G. Diefenbaker (Prime
Minister): Mr. Speaker, the negotiations are still continuing, in particular with regard to the question of financing. Every other difficulty, I believe, has been resolved with the exception of that of the financial assistance which has been requested by the government of Saskatchewan.
So far as the attitude of the government toward the commencement of this necessary work is concerned, may I say that when the supplementary estimates are tabled there will be contained therein an item which will indicate the seriousness with which this government views the necessity for commencing this work shortly.



CIVIL DEFENCE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. Paul Martin (Essex East):: I should like to ask the Minister of National Health and Welfare a question, and possibly he would like to take it as notice and reply later. Does the minister intend to make a statement to the house concerning the matter of civil defence, particularly arising out of the conference he held with the head of the civil defence organization in the United States during the past few days?


Hon. J. W. Monteiih (Minisier of Nalional Healih and Welfare):: Mr. Speaker, I will
make a statement to the house at the time the estimates are before the house.



FISHERIES


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. C. R. Granger (Grand Falls-While Bay-Labrador):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask the following question of the Minister of Fisheries. Can the minister inform me whether or not the government intends to place a floor under salt codfish prices during the current season?


Hon. J. A. MacLean (Minister of Fisheries):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to thank the hon. member for Grand Falls-White Bay-Labrador for his kindness in giving me notice of his intention to ask this question. I may say also that I appreciate his interest in the welfare of the salt fish industry and the difficult position in which the industry finds itself, particularly over the last number of years. I can only say that the whole matter is under very careful study. It is a question of government policy, and when a decision has been taken an announcement will be made as quickly as possible.



DOMINION-PROVINCIAL RELATIONS REPORTED ANNOUNCEMENT OF FEDERAL-MUNICIPAL CONFERENCE

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. H. W. Herridge (Kootenay West):: Mr. Speaker, may I be so bold as to repeat a question I asked of the Prime Minister yesterday, notice of which was taken by the Acting Prime Minister. Is the recent television report correct, to the effect that the Prime Minister, when speaking to the mayor of Edmonton, announced that a federal-municipal conference would be called in September?


John George Diefenbaker: In order to answer that question, Mr. Speaker, I shall have to review the circumstances connected with the undertaking that was given. At the time the Canadian Federation of Mayors and Municipalities made their representations to the government on February 7 there was a discussion as to whether or not a dominion-municipal conference should be called. It was suggested by the mayors, with the realization of the constitutional difficulties that prevail, that a formal conference could conceivably not be in the best interests of all concerned. For that reason they gave as an alternative suggestion the convening of an informal conference. This undertaking was given and was accepted by the association of mayors. When I was in Edmonton the other day Mayor Hawrelak, past president of the mayors' association, asked me with regard to the matter and I said -I was speaking to him personally; the matter was to be announced later-that the government had in mind bringing together an informal conference of representatives of the association of mayors and municipalities in this country to the end that the representations of that body could be given consideration by the government.


John Whitney Pickersgill: May I ask the Prime Minister a supplementary question. Is it planned that this
57071-3-39i
Inquiries of the Ministry should be a conference of municipal representatives and the federal government only, or would there be representatives of the provincial authorities as well?


John George Diefenbaker: This was to be an informal conference at which the Canadian Federation of Mayors and Municipalities would have their accredited representatives place their views before the government.


John Whitney Pickersgill: I wonder if I might ask another supplementary question. Could the Prime Minister explain in what respect that procedure would differ from the usual annual reception given to the federation of mayors and municipalities by the government over the years.


John George Diefenbaker: Mr. Speaker, the federation of mayors and municipalities did not share my hon. friend's feelings in that regard.


John Whitney Pickersgill: I was not expressing any feelings.


John George Diefenbaker: They were very pleased that for once a government would at least hear their representations in this connection.


Paul Joseph James Martin: Since the Prime Minister has decided to listen to representations from municipalities, could he tell the house when he proposes to listen to representations by the provincial governments of Canada?


John George Diefenbaker: Usually my hon. friend is more careful with his phraseology, Mr. Speaker. The purpose was not to listen to municipalities but to listen to the representations of the Canadian Federation of Mayors and Municipalities.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Something which has been done over the years.


John George Diefenbaker: As to the latter part of the question, Mr. Speaker, I know my hon. friend evinced considerable interest in this subject yesterday. May I say that when the decision is made, the house will be made aware of it.


Herbert Wilfred Herridge: May I ask the Prime Minister a further supplementary question. Will this conference be held in public or behind closed doors?


John George Diefenbaker: Mr. Speaker, the attitude of this government is always to give the widest possible knowledge to the people as a whole, and there will be no closed doors.



SPEECH FROM THE THRONE


[Stage Direction]
The house resumed, from Wednesday, May 28, consideration of the motion of Mr. Robert
[Stage Direction]
The Address-Mr. Danforth Lafreniere for an address to His Excellency the Governor General in reply to his speech at the opening of the session.
Mr. H. W. Danforth (Kent, Onl.):: Mr. Speaker, to you, to the Deputy Speaker and to the deputy chairman of committees I must confess that after hearing the congratulations and good wishes that have been expressed by the many hon. members who have preceded me, and noting the real sincerity with which they have been given, I can only add that I concur wholeheartedly. I must say that I admired greatly the manner in which the address in reply to the speech from the throne was moved and seconded, and that I am extremely proud indeed to be associated with these hon. members.
I must also say that a number of others who have since participated in this debate have brought honour and distinction to themselves by their efforts, which seemed to me more like addresses of veterans than those of the novices they profess to be. I have followed with keen interest the subject matters dealt with in this debate and have learned a great deal about this Canada of ours from the hon. members who have dealt at length with the constituencies they represent; and I am very relieved that the constituency which I have the honour to represent is not alone in feeling that this twenty-fourth parliament will provide a means of aiding them with respect to some of their difficulties.
The constituency I represent is the county of Kent, which is the most southerly county in the Dominion of Canada. In fact it is further south than two of the great United States cities, namely Boston and Detroit. Kent county is also further south than approximately one-third of the habitable area of the United States, and 700 miles farther south than its counterpart in England. A line drawn through Chatham, our principal city, if continued across the globe would traverse the south of France. Because of the fact that it is bounded by two of the great lakes, St. Clair and Erie, its climate is temperate to the extent that Kent experiences neither extreme northern cold nor extreme southern heat. It is made up of some 580,000 acres of the best of farm land, and because of its unique situation Kent might be termed a working model of Canada, for here we find nearly every industry and field of endeavour to be found anywhere else in our country, though in some instances to a lesser degree. For this reason our problems are numerous and complex, and the speech from the throne has brought a great surge of hope to the people of this great constituency.

I have stated that we in Kent are engaged in many fields of endeavour. May I point out some of these. In respect to agriculture all grains, from wheat, corn, soybeans, oats and barley to flax and sunflowers are grown there. Fruits are grown from apples, peaches and cherries to strawberries and raspberries; we have specialized crops such as sugar beets, canning tomatoes and tobacco. So far as industry is concerned we build everything from cars, truck and plane bodies to steel boats. The livestock men produce cattle, hogs, sheep and fur-bearing animals whose quality is equal to that produced anywhere else in the world. These are not elaborations on my part, but merely statements of fact.
With your permission, Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak of some of the industries in my area, and offer some suggestions as to how they may be aided in their endeavours by the deliberations of hon. members of this house. I should like to talk for a moment or two about our fishing industry. Dotted along our long shoreline are numerous small ports from which fishing ships and tugs operate into the lake. These fishing vessels are constructed of steel; they are from about 45 feet to 75 feet in length, and vary in value from $45,000 to $60,000. They have five men in the crew and are diesel powered. One port near my home has 22 of these tugs operating from it, and another has 37.
Located at Wheatley, which is the name of one of these ports, is the largest fresh water fish processing plant in the world, which annually processes around 20 million pounds of fresh water fish. The province of Ontario produced approximately $7 million worth of fresh water fish in 1957, and the sales from Kent county amounted to over $3,500,000, or more than half. This industry in Kent needs help in two directions. There needs to be a well-thought out plan of progressive construction of docking facilities for these boats, which in many instances are using makeshift, homemade wooden structures some of which are dangerous and not practical. Some dredging work must be done to deepen the entrances to the ports. I have seen these boats scraping bottom time and time again in their attempts to land, and in one instance this spring I saw a new modern tug put its engines out of commission in such an attempt. When the size of the industry is measured against the size of the necessary expenditures, I am sure something can be done on their behalf.
The second great need is in the field of research work on behalf of the fish industry in lake Erie. Lake Erie has been very productive, but it may be overlooked because

of this very fact until it is too late and its stock of fish is depleted, as has happened in other great lakes. For example, right now we would like to know why in lake Erie smelts are lying dead on the bottom by the millions and why, too, fish are being netted in quantities that were never found there as recently as 15 years ago.
Mr. Speaker, may I take the liberty of dwelling at some length on the subject of agriculture, our basic industry. As has been pointed out before many of our endeavours have been pioneered in Kent county and are, in fact, crops grown by specialists. Tobacco is grown to a large extent, and I heartily support the views expressed by the hon. member for Norfolk (Mr. Knowles) on behalf of the tobacco growers. Sugar beets are also a specialized crop. This industry brings about $30 million a year to western Ontario alone and means a great deal to the economy of Canada. The industry was practically crucified in 1952 and 1953 when great quantities of Cuban refined sugar were imported into Canada. A continuation of these imports would have curtailed and even stopped the production and refining of sugar beets in western Ontario. At that time, and I say it without hesitation, the industry was saved through the efforts of the hon. member for Lambton West (Mr. Murphy) who waged a continuing battle with the then minister of trade and commerce with the result that Cuban refined sugar shipments were finally stopped. We do import some Cuban raw sugar, however.
Last year, within 44 days of the calling of parliament this government placed a support price on sugar beets of 17 per cent sugar content at $13 per ton. This stimulated interest in sugar beet acreage. The sugar beet growers in western Ontario expected that the support price for 1958 would be above the 1957 figure. As a result the growers have planted something in excess of 30,000 acres of sugar beets as against 19,000 acres the previous year. The support price for 1958 should have been announced prior to the planting season, and I contend it should have been above the announced price. I have no hesitation in saying that had the floor price been 100 per cent or more of the ten-year average an additional 10,000 acres of sugar beets would have been planted. This would have been a planting record, and would have meant a great deal to the economy of Canada.
I submit that the farmers in Ontario who suffered many injustices under the Liberal government have now been recognized by our present government. They should be entitled to even greater consideration because of the high cost of production, as many crops
The Address-Mr. Danforth are grown in small acreages, and their particular problems should be studied more carefully by some department of government. I refer in particular to such crops as wheat, soybeans, sugar beets and corn.
Another endeavour pioneered in Kent, one that is comparatively new but of major importance, is the growing and production of hybrid seed corn. The development of the seed for the growing of commercial corn requires the work of skilled agricultural technicians, and we are fortunate in having the very best of these in Kent county. Every time there is an increase in demand of 1,000 bushels of seed corn, one more farm can be placed in the profitable production of this crop.
I am sure hon. members followed with some interest the visit of the Roumanian trade mission to the farms in Kent county, and took note of the remarks made by the Roumanian minister of agriculture. After visiting the major corn seed companies in the United States he said that the field of corn he was then standing in was the best he had ever seen. At that moment he was standing in a 100-acre seed corn plot on the Warwich hybrid farm in Kent county. The result of this has been that Kent county exported seed corn to Roumania that year, and this year the order has been increased to three times that quantity. The truth of the matter is that the amount of single cross and double cross hybrid seed sent to Roumania, developed for use as commercial seed, will seed approximately 1J million acres of corn.
We need help for our corn industry. We have here a crop that produces more grain and fodder per acre than any other crop. We have here facilities to produce the seed in ever-increasing amounts for home consumption and export. We have in the Ottawa, Kemptville, Harrow and Ridgetown experimental stations the men capable of developing strains to push the climatic-restricting boundaries of corn farther and farther back. We have a commercial crop that does not as yet fill our own requirements and which could utilize land and labour going into the production of crops which are in a surplus position. The government could help by putting a reasonable stabilized price on commercial corn and by controlling the importation of corn into Canada, which comes in by the millions of bushels.
The market for our seed corn overseas could also be explored. It offers a great field for expansion, because our greatest competitors there are the seed companies of the United States. The large markets for this seed are in Yugoslavia, Roumania, East Germany
614	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. Danforth and Russia. We can compete successfully because our seed is superior in suitability for conditions in those countries. This is due to the fact that the climate there is wet and cool, somewhat similar to ours. For that reason our seed corn is developed for early maturity and for a cool, wet season, as compared with the United States production of seed for later maturity and growth in a hot, dry climate.
This market is available. Kent county has a very small portion of this market, which nevertheless amounts to thousands of bushels, due to the efforts of one man who visited one country at his own expense. Think for a moment of the potential results of a trade mission representing Canada and well qualified for this task visiting markets abroad.
May I now speak for a few moments on the production of livestock. During the war some of the famous Landrace hogs were taken from Denmark to the Jersey islands to avoid falling into enemy hands. From there some of this stock reached the farms of Sir Winston Churchill. These pigs showed such high feed conversion standards and such quality of bacon that Kent county breeders became interested and at a very high cost imported breeding stock into Kent from these farms by way of Scotland. Work has since gone on at a tremendous rate to develop and expand this stock for breeding. Denmark prohibits the export of this stock, which they have developed to a high degree of perfection, and for that reason it is difficult to obtain this stock on any farm. We in Kent county are extremely proud of the work done in this field. Recently 105 of these animals were crated and flown to Roumania, a repeat order of the nine purchased and shipped to that country last year. Other shipments are continually going to the United States.
Similar developments are occurring in other branches of the livestock industry. Last week in Kent the first Angus and Hereford cattle were being assembled to be shipped to Roumania for breeding stock. In poultry, 17,000 baby chicks were going to the same market. Dairy cattle are continually being exported to the United States and some other countries. These shipments are made possible because of the high standard of quality that obtains in Kent county in all these branches of livestock.
My purpose, sir, is twofold. First I wish to point out the fact that Kent produces a quality of product which is in demand in foreign markets, but I do not wish in any way to imply that this is not true in other parts of Canada as well. Second, I want to illustrate that markets do exist for quality


Mr. D. R. Mitchell (Sudbury):: Mr. Speaker, in saying a few words on the address in reply to the speech from the throne I would be remiss if I did not add my congratulations to you on your re-election as Speaker of the House of Commons. We all know your eminent qualifications for this position and I assure you, sir, that I am quite sincere in my remarks on this occasion. Owing to the exact similarity of our initials, sir, D.R.M., and even the similarity of Michener and Mitchell, when we were first elected to the house in 1953 we did have some difficulty in receiving each other's mail. However, I

The Address-Mr. Mitchell hasten to say that no confidences were revealed when by mistake we opened each other's correspondence. I also extend my good wishes to the Deputy Speaker and wish him well in the performance of his duties.
The purpose of my remarks this morning is to bring to the attention of hon. members the plight of the small businessman. To the best of my knowledge this point has not been touched on in the debate, possibly for the simple reason that there are not enough small businessmen in this house who would be concerned with this condition.
I think you will agree, sir, that a large proportion of the membership of the house consists of representatives of the legal profession, and for that reason I wish to draw to the attention of the house the condition of the small businessman, that being the category in which I put myself. I feel that I am speaking for many others when I refer to this situation.
In the speech from the throne mention was made of a committee to be set up to study the conditions met every day by small businessmen, with a view to improving their position. The reference in the speech from the throne is in these words:
In order to assist small business, there will be established a small business section within the administrative machinery of government. The functions of this organization will be to provide liaison between the government and small businesses, to study the problems of small business and to advise on measures necessary to meet them.
For many years the owner of a small business has been gradually forced to the wall and has seen his business gradually shrink from a level that could be considered sufficient to supply him with a comfortable living. Many of us realize the important position of the small merchant in any community from the point of view of his fellow citizens, and although they may not be directly concerned they can see that he is gradually being forced to discontinue his retail establishment.
This is particularly true with regard to grocers who, as we know, are rapidly being forced out of business by the large chains operating in almost every one of our communities. The grocer does not have the privilege of buying in larger quantities, thereby being able to sell at a price at which he can compete with the chains, and as a non-competitor he is forced to give up his business. The same thing applies in other lines of retail merchandising which I need not mention, as I think hon. members are well acquainted with them.
At the present time, when there is considerable concern regarding a return to so-called orderly merchandising, the purpose

of this committee, after they have studied all the facts, should be to attempt to assist the small man to stay in business and thus continue to be an important cog in everyday life wherever he may have his residence. As a war measure r.p.m.-I do not mean "revolutions per minute" though in some cases I think a little more speed would be helpful-or retail price maintenance was established. It served well during the war years in assisting orderly marketing and helping provide a reasonable profit for all. It served its purpose for the time it was intended, but following the war retail price maintenance was repealed and the scheme of manufacturing, wholesaling and retailing at established prices was discontinued.
At that time it was made clear that such things as loss leaders would not be countenanced and that if such practices were prevalent and could be proved they would not be allowed to continue. However, such does not seem to be the case at the present time. Many small merchants are finding that various items on their shelves are being sold by the larger chain stores at prices with which they cannot compete. If the small merchant should attempt to sell at those prices it would mean a loss to him. I feel it is not the intention of any government to allow this situation to continue, but due to the greater buying powers of the larger organizations this condition is flourishing at the present time.
From my own experience I would mention an article that has been kicked around a great deal so far as price cutting is concerned. I refer to cigarettes. For pratically all smaller businesses the price from the wholesaler is $2.91 a carton which, if he sells individual packages, will gross him $3.30. This in itself is a very small margin, but when he runs into cut prices the situation is considerably worse. By no manipulation can I buy a carton of cigarettes for less than $2.91 but the larger outlets, being on the manufacturer's direct list, can buy them at a 10 per cent discount from the price I am forced to pay. I believe this would mean a net price of approximately $2.62 and they are being sold from $2.69 up, which still represents a profit to them but a definite loss to the small merchant.
Various other articles are in the same category of loss leaders. Possibly they could be looked upon as come-ons to get people into these places of business so they will pick up other items on which a profit can be made. If loss leader selling is to be allowed to continue I believe the combines investigation branch could take some action as I

consider that the practice, so far as the small businessman is concerned, definitely constitutes restraint of trade.
I believe that if we are to make any headway in orderly merchandising we should consider the plight of almost all merchants, other than cash businesses, arising from the fact that people are being invited to buy many articles on time payment plans with, in many cases, not even any down payment. I know that many merchants are concerned about this practice but are forced into it by their competitors. They do not like the idea, but in order to meet competition they are forced to follow suit. I also feel it has a bad moral effect on the purchasing public, in that they mortgage their incomes for some time to come to keep up the payments and therefore have no free money to spend which would assist in relieving the unemployment problem. I believe that price controls could be re-established in a great many cases. In particular, as far as a great majority of merchants are concerned, to enforce larger down payments for articles purchased on instalments would be a step in the right direction.
I must confess that I am thoroughly in accord with one of the items in the Liberal platform of the last election. I refer to the item whereby the smaller businessman when computing his income tax would be allowed accelerated depreciation on improvements, alterations, renovations and so on. This would also help to relieve the present unemployment situation by putting more local people to work, because many merchants would feel freer to undertake improvement of their merchandising facilities if relief were allowed them in the form of increased depreciation.
In comparing the plight of the small businessman in trying to compete with the large chains I must also mention the pride that the small businessman takes in his community and the help he is in all community welfare projects. You will find that he is the backbone of all local welfare campaigns, and not only gives freely of his means to various welfare endeavours but also willingly donates his services to assist in the collection of these necessary funds. In many cases he is the local chairman of such groups and assists in any way he can for the betterment of his community. Many of us can recall, when we were asked to solicit funds for say the Red Feather organization or others, that if we called on chain organizations the routine answer we would get was that the head office looked after such details. How much help to the community are these large chains? They have no local pride. Their profits go out of town, and the only benefit they produce is through the local labour they employ.
The Address-Mr. McQuillan Therefore I say that the committee the government has promised to appoint should be formed at once and study the plight of the small merchant.
In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I must again thank the electors of my riding for re-electing me as their representative for another term in parliament. I have appreciated being their representative since 1953, and there is no other constituency I would rather represent. As you know, the Sudbury riding plays a very important part in the economic development of Canada, and with its vast resources of nickel and copper makes a very important contribution to the welfare of all Canadians. The mining industry is, of course, our largest employer of labour, with approximately
20,000	employees in this industry alone. I must say that our city continues to flourish even under the slight recession being felt in many parts of Canada. Personally I hope this is only temporary, and that all parts of Canada will return to the good times we enjoyed for many years.


Mr. H. C. McQuillan (Comox-Alberni):: Mr. Speaker, I wish first to add my congratulations to the many that have already been extended to you on your election to your high office. I wish also to congratulate the Deputy Speaker and chairman of the committee of the whole. I should like to extend my congratulations to the mover (Mr. La-freniere) and seconder (Mr. Nielsen) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne.
I am grateful for the privilege of representing Comox-Alberni in this house, and grateful as well for the opportunity of meeting other members from all over Canada. I was born in the west and spent most of my life there. I was always told that the east was completely ignorant of the problems of the west. I was told that once you got out of the Rocky mountains no one knew anything about the problems of British Columbia. During the last few years I have wondered if we were not a little ignorant, too. After having spent three weeks in Ottawa I am convinced that we are quite as ignorant of the problems of the east as the east is of the problems of the west.
I want to thank the Liberals particularly in my riding for the assistance they gave me in getting elected. I should like also to extend my condolences to the C.C.F. group upon the loss from their ranks of a man who was a very worthy opponent. He bested me in the election of 1957, but I bested him in this last election. I refer, of course, to Mr. Tom Barnett, the former member for Comox-Alberni.
618	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. McQuillan
Comox-Alberni is one of Canada's two far western constituencies. It joins the constituency of Skeena just south of the paper mill town of Ocean Falls. These two constituencies encompass the greater part of Canada's Pacific coast line. In Comox-Alberni there are something over 7,000 miles of coast. The major portion of Canada's Pacific coast fish catch is made in these waters. We in Comox-Alberni are keenly aware of the inherent problems of the fishing industry, problems that must be solved and solved soon if we are to keep this industry in its proper place in our economy.
Comox-Alberni is primarily a rugged, lumber-producing constituency. There is a small section of agricultural land along the lower east coast of Vancouver island, but generally speaking the terrain is rather rugged. There is more rock, in this area I venture to say, than in any other riding in Canada. The mountains rise from the sea to a height of many thousands of feet within a few miles of the coast, the highest being Mount Waddington at 13,249 feet. It is the highest mountain in British Columbia. These mountains are cut by a myriad of small streams and rivers, in the narrow valleys of which and extending up the mountainside to an elevation of approximately 3,000 feet grows the finest mature stand of timber in the whole of Canada.
Some of the trees are of tremendous size. I recall logging a spruce tree on the Queen Charlotte islands that had over 45,000 feet board measure of merchantable timber in it. I recall another instance of logging a huge cedar windfall on the west coast of Vancouver island, and I think there was something like 14,000 board feet in the log. There were several trees growing over this windfall, and from a ring count made on one of them it was established that the cedar tree had been on the ground for something over 800 years. From a ring count of the windfall it was established that it had been about 1,200 years old before it fell down. We removed the log and from it manufactured bevelled cedar siding. I am sure that the walls of some of the better homes in Ontario are graced with siding from that tree which started to grow over 2,000 years ago.
The logging of these huge timbers in this very rugged terrain presents a difficult problem. We have tremendous breakage and waste at which the average layman looks with horror. However, economic conditions will continue, as in the past, to govern the utilization of this timber. In recent years, as the result of mechanical advances, advances in forest chemistry and a rapidly
[Mr. McQuillan.)

increasing population on this continent, our utilization practices have improved considerably. We have far to go yet, however, before reaching a satisfactory level. I hope economic conditions will be such that we may achieve that goal.
Approximately a billion and a half feet of timber is produced in Comox-Alberni constituency, that is about half the total timber produced in the coastal forest. The value of the end product is tremendous. It is one of the great sources of wealth in Canadaj and one of the great sources of revenue for our national treasury. Many people believe that when the mature stands are logged this wealth will be exhausted. I want to assure you, Mr. Speaker, and the house that this is not true. Succeeding crops will produce far greater wealth for us than the virgin crop. Generally speaking, artificial reforestation is not required in the area. The annual increment in our own forests is undoubtedly the greatest of any forested area in the whole of Canada. When I said that artificial planting is generally not required, I should have made this reservation; except where forest fires had seriously denuded the seed crop.
At this time I should like to ask this government to give every consideration to the problem of forest protection in British Columbia, as well as all other provinces with forested areas. A great volume of the production from the area is transported to Vancouver in flat booms towed by small tugs. Many of you who have been to the coast have probably wondered what we do with all these tugs, but they tow a tremendous volume of timber down the coast every year.
There are three large pulp and paper mills in the constituency, one at Port Alice, at the extreme north end of the island, one at Campbell River, and one at Port Alberni. These mills have been greatly modernized and expanded in the last two years by a tremendous expenditure of private capital. Port Alberni has three large sawmills, a large plywood mill and a large shingle mill. It is today one of the important lumber exporting ports of the world, and as such is entitled to full consideration of its port needs by the responsible department.
The northern end of the island is undeveloped in the sense that there is a lack of roads. Most communities are isolated and can only be reached by water transport or by the use of small float planes. Consequently there is not much in the way of settled communities in the area. The labour that is used in the camps is generally of a transient nature and when the work in the camp is completed returns home to Vancouver and the lower mainland.

There is a desperate need for a road in this area. I think it would be one of the most worth-while investments that could be made by this government and the Department of Northern Affairs and National Resources if they were to assist the provincial government to develop this road. I am sure they would have their investment returned in very short order, as there is tremendous undeveloped wealth in the area in the form of timber and minerals. In addition, as I said before, the great part of our fish catch is made in the waters off that coast line.
At the present time there is probably a population of 7,000 people in scattered communities. I do not think there is a permanent population of that number. However, if we had proper road communications connecting the various logging camps and communities I think I am safe in saying that permanent communities would soon be established in which would dwell a population of up to
30,000	in five years; and I think I can safely say that in ten years the population would be 60,000. I believe this is exactly the kind of program the Prime Minister had in mind when proposing his national resources development program. I think this is one area that really is worthy of any expenditure made on it.
I want to ask the Minister of Transport to be ever mindful of the water and air transportation needs of the coastal area. I will agree that it has a small population and that transportation services quite often require subsidies; but when one considers the wealth that is produced per capita in that area one can see that it is worthy of investment on the part of the Department of Transport.
The forest industries of British Columbia, of which I am speaking primarily because I am familiar with them, do not ask the government to sell their product. However, they ask the government not to put any obstacles their way in selling it. They are concerned, and rightly so, about the danger of retaliatory tariffs or new tariffs for the protection of penny industries which could destroy our big dollar industries.
I have spoken previously many times, not only on political platforms but at industrial conventions, about the much talked about trade with red China. In the last couple of years Russia has begun the construction of five new pulp and paper mills on or near the borders of red China. These mills are being developed solely for the purpose of capturing the red China market. While the previous administration sat on its hands Russia got in there, recognized the potential and built these plants.
57071-3-40J
The Address-Mr. McQuillan
I am not so sure that the present administration is not sitting on its hands with regard to trade with red China. I do not advocate recognition of red China. I am not expert enough in the field of foreign affairs to be as presumptuous as that. However, I feel there is a great possibility of our developing a much larger market in red China. It has been said that if we could only get one toothpick a day into the 600 million mouths of the red Chinese the lumber industry of British Columbia would indeed be prosperous.
I want to remind the Minister of National Revenue that the forest industry is the most highly taxed industry in Canada. In British Columbia, and I believe the same situation exists in Ontario, not only is the industry subjected to the dominion or national corporate tax, but in addition we have a 10 per cent provincial corporate tax on profits from the forest industry. We also have it on the mining industry, but unfortunately in the last year or two the profits of the mining industry have been such that it has not had to pay much. I would ask him not to milk this industry dry, as it brings in more dollars through its exports than any other industry in Canada. It gives us the money with which to buy the much-needed imports that we obtain from so many other countries in the world.
At this time I should like to commend the Minister of Public Works for his housing program. A few days ago I heard one of my party colleagues rather taking the minister and his department apart with regard to their housing program, making comparisons between Canada's housing program and the United States housing program. If I remember rightly the Minister of Public Works stated that Canada expected 147,000 housing starts to be made this year. I follow quite closely the housing industry in the United States. The latest figure available to me indicates 960,000 starts in the United States. If the United States were matching Canada's program they would this year be building
1,470,000	houses. I should truly love to see this situation come about, because very shortly thereafter every whistle punk in British Columbia would have two Cadillacs in his garage.
I also want to commend the Minister of Public Works and his department for the successful removal of Ripple rock.


John Whitney Pickersgill: A good Liberal undertaking.


Henry Carwithen McQuillan: Yes. I should like to tell a little story with regard to something that occurred then. I was given a little lesson

The Address-Mr. Herridge in practical politics. I was driving the minister and his deputy to the scene of the dug-outs from which we were to view the explosion. He said to me, "Harry, if this blast is successful, then it is a Conservative project. But if it is an explosion that blows up the pulp mill and blows all the windows out of the houses, it was a Liberal project".


John Whitney Pickersgill: An honest man.


Henry Carwithen McQuillan: But something else he said shortly after the blast-and it was an extremely successful blast-rather bothers me. Not long after the blast or rather before the dust had really settled he turned to me and said, "Harry, that blast cost approximately $3,200,000. There goes Comox-Alberni's public works appropriation for the next three years". I thought he was kidding at the time, but from a cursory examination of the estimates I am not so sure. I hope his heart softens and that he brings forward some supplementary appropriations.
I also want to thank the Minister of National Defence for the splendid trip to Kingston which he arranged for us last Saturday. It was unfortunate that more members did not partake of his hospitality. It was a great education to me to see our military colleges and schools and what they are doing. I was particularly interested in the soldier-apprentice program. I think it is a worth-while program. These young men are being taught trades which not only are useful from a military point of view but will be extremely useful to them in civil life in the years to come. I was impressed not only by the dedication of the officers and those in charge of the schools and colleges but by the apparent dedication of the lowliest cadet or soldier attending these schools and colleges.
I have at this moment one request that I should like to make of the C.C.F. group. I believe one of the hon. members of that group is a former member of the international woodworkers of America grievance committee, and having in the past had a great deal to do with that grievance committee and knowing the kind of food they insist be put on the tables of our logging camps, I ask him as a personal favour to endeavour to get on the restaurant committee. If he can get half as good food from this cook house as he insists on in the logging camps, I shall be forever grateful.


Herbert Wilfred Herridge: Mr. Speaker, with your indulgence I would like to nibble on this very well-gnawed procedural bone for a few minutes. I might say, in order to save the time of the house, that I sincerely endorse all congratulations and compliments which have been uttered with
[Mr. McQuillan.1
respect to the election of you, Mr. Speaker, and your deputy, and also with respect to the performance of the mover (Mr. Lafre-niere) and the seconder (Mr. Nielsen) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne.
I might explain before proceeding further that with respect to the amendment moved by the Liberal opposition, which we supported yesterday, we did support it as being a step in the right direction as we believed it would bring about some improvement in our present economic conditions. However, so far as this group are concerned we consider that amendment was like moving a motion to wash your face without any soap.
Before continuing I would like to compliment the hon. member for Comox-Alberni upon urging the government to give consideration to the expansion of trade with red China. This has been a very live issue in British Columbia, and when the hon. member urged the government to do something in this respect he was expressing the views of the great majority of the people of that province, regardless of party. I might bring to the attention of this house that the expansion of trade with red China was advocated by this group, years ago and we are delighted to know that Conservative members from the province of British Columbia are supporting us in our long-time interest in this subject. I do hope the hon. member for Comox-Alberni will be listened to with great attention, and that his suggestions will be acted upon by his colleagues on the government benches.
There has been considerable discussion with respect to the contents of the throne speech, and I am not going to be repetitious in dealing with them. Suffice it to say that we are very pleased to note there is going to be a commonwealth conference, because we in the C.C.F. are all for doing everything we can to expand trade within the commonwealth. We are also glad to note there is provision for the introduction of a measure concerning a bill of rights. This is a bit of an enigma at present, for while we like the principle being endorsed in so far as it is announced in the throne speech, we will have to await the details to see if we are satisfied that it will be the kind of bill of rights which we think should be introduced.
We were very glad to note the amendment suggested to the Canadian Farm Loan Act. Such an amendment has been suggested by members of this group for many years, and once again we are glad that even with our small numbers we have had some influence on the former Liberal government and on the present overwhelming Conservative

majority. We are glad to see amendments proposed to the veterans legislation, and I am sure that members in all parts of the house will welcome some improvement in this legislation. We trust the amendments will be in accord with the recommendations of the Canadian Legion and the national council of veterans.
Then there is also provision for an amendment to the Prairie Farm Assistance Act, and I am sure my colleagues from the prairie provinces are looking forward to a full discussion of this question, because if there is one thing that is certain it is that none of our colleagues from the prairie provinces can ever be accused of under-debating any question coming before this house which concerns the prairie farmers and their problems.
We are also very pleased to see that at last provision is to be made for a standing committee on veterans affairs. This measure was advocated by the members of the present government party and the C.C.F. and others in this house for years, when we stood together in opposition, and I and my colleagues are very gratified that we are at least going to have such a standing committee to review annually the problems of the veterans, taking into account the conditions and circumstances which change from time to time.
We are particularly interested in the suggestion in the throne speech that the government intends to further a program of government investment through crown corporations, direct government activity and activity in co-operation with provincial governments. I might say this development is of great interest to many of my constituents, and I wish to take this opportunity to bring to the attention of the government a number of projects which could be undertaken in the very near future as part of this national investment program. In doing so I want to remind the government that they can well afford to undertake some very heavy expenditures in Kootenay West, which is one of the great wealth-producing areas of Canada. I think it is correct to say that in this constituency the residents pay the largest per capita income tax of any constituency in Canada.
First of all, and because of my own great interest in British Columbia and particularly in my constituency, I would like to mention the development of the water resources of the Columbia river, and in that connection we all primarily think of the building, we trust very soon, of the Mica creek dam. This has been under discussion for years; the international joint commission has been conducting surveys since 1945 in co-operation with other government departments, and the
The Address-Mr. Herridge information is all now available. All that requires to be done is the drafting of the plans and so on, as soon as the governments of Canada and the United States come to a mutually satisfactory agreement respecting adequate payment for the downstream benefits in the United States. We do urge the government to make haste in this respect, and we look forward to an announcement very soon by the Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources as indicated in his reply to a question I asked of him some two weeks ago.
In addition, we have a very important airport at Castlegar which requires some urgent improvements. The lengthening of the runway is an urgent necessity in order to meet the needs of the larger planes landing there; and radio truck guidance, I am informed, is urgently required because of the position of the airport between two ranges of mountains and the fact that there is very little opportunity to manoeuvre in the space between these mountains. I am also informed that the expansion and black-topping of the runways is necessary, and I put this forward as another project which might be undertaken in the very near future as part of this national investment program.
I am also glad to suggest again the extension of the application of the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act to all provinces in Canada. This is of very vital concern to many of the people I represent since we have some wonderful lands which are underdeveloped because the act has not been applicable to all provinces. We hear of great expansions in the north with railways running almost to the unknown and great expenditures in isolated places. While we are most anxious to see such improvements and the development of the northern part of our country progressing, we want to bring to the attention of the government the fact that even in constituencies such as Kootenay West there are thousands of acres of land close to transportation which could be developed at relatively little cost, but which are at present lying idle.
I would like to bring forward one or two illustrations. First of all I will deal with the Slocan valley, which is a beautiful valley in my constituency about 30 miles long and varying from one to one and a half miles wide. The whole floor of that beautiful valley is covered with good soil. The Slocan river flows through the centre. The whole valley is served with power, and in addition there is a paved highway and a railroad running the whole length of the valley. Yet with all those facilities provided at public expense, under present conditions a great portion of the acreage in the valley is lying

The Address-Mr. Herridge idle, in fallow, because of the necessity for certain flood control, some minor diking and some drainage operations. I suggest to the government that we need an extension of the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act to meet situations like this, where the expenditure of a relatively small amount of money will bring into production thousands of acres of fertile land which is at present lying idle.
I wish now to deal with the Lardeau valley, another beautiful valley in my constituency. In fact perhaps I should remind new hon. members that I represent Canada's garden of Eden. This valley is also about 30 miles long and contains approximately 16,000 acres of first-class agricultural land, a fact which I have had carefully checked, of which approximately 15,000 are completely unused at the present time. A river and a gravel road run the entire length of the valley, and there is an excellent school. The total permanent population is about 150 persons. Here are thousands of acres of good land close to transportation simply awaiting the expenditure of a relatively small amount of money to bring that extremely fertile soil into production. What is necessary there is the deepening of the bed of the Duncan river, and some drainage and diking for flood control purposes.
To illustrate how little money is required to provide almost exceptional results, I would point out that during the last four or five years the Department of Public Works has been straightening the course of the Duncan river and lowering its bed in a few places in order to provide for the passage of booms, small boats and transportation of that kind. This was done at a cost of approximately $5,000 a year and primarily for the purpose of providing access from Kootenay lake to Howser lake, but the secondary result of that small expenditure was to lower the water table around Meadow Creek, which is about the centre of the valley, by about three feet so that thousands of acres of land can now be cultivated to much greater advantage than they could previously. I do hope the government will give consideration to the opportunities that exist for public investment to public advantage in the Lardeau valley.
Turning now to the subject of provincial parks, we have some beautiful ones in the Kootenays which at the present time are largely unknown to a great majority of the people who live in the district, and certainly to most tourists who visit our area, because of the lack of access roads. I refer in the first instance to the Kokanee park near Nelson, a park of magnificent glaciers and mountain scenery and all those things which delight the eyes of those who relish mountain climbing and recreation of that sort. All that

is required to make that park available for the enjoyment of large numbers of Canadians is the building of a satisfactory access road. In view of the present government's indicated willingness to co-operate with provincial governments in the building of access roads to parks I urge the government to give consideration to co-operating with the provincial government in the building of an access road to Kokanee park.
Another beautiful park is Nakusp hot springs provincial park. I happen to have been the chairman of the board of commissioners of this park from 1925 until three years ago. This lovely park has several hot springs within its confines the chemical content of which I am told is about of equal value to those of Radium. It is in a delightful location, and you can sit by the side of the Kuskanox river that flows for 30 miles and is stocked with brook trout, actually catch a trout in the stream and simply swing it over and cook it in the hot springs. Where else in Canada could you find similar opportunity. I ask the federal government to give consideration to co-operation with the provincial government in the building of an access road to Nakusp hot springs provincial park, another of these beauty spots almost unknown to the majority of Canadians.
There are great opportunities for public investment in roads. I know that federal government policy to date has been to confine its efforts with respect to the building of roads largely to co-operation with the provinces in the building of the trans-Canada highway, and to roads required in the Northwest Territories and the Yukon. However, we in this group think that because of the great need for roads in this country and the fact that the building of many of these roads is obviously beyond the capacity of provincial governments the policy should be changed to include the building of north-south roads connecting with the trans-Canada highway and the other trans-Canada highways which we trust will be built in the near future.
In this connection I want to bring to the attention of the house the Inonoaklin valley, which is about 15 miles long and 1J miles wide, containing thousands of acres of first-class land much of which is being farmed at the present time. Here again, however, these very diligent and hard-working pioneer farmers are denied the opportunity to succeed because of the lack of access to markets for their dairy and poultry products, beef and other agricultural commodities. These markets, of course, are to the south in the industrial areas of Trail and Nelson, but because there is no road many farmers are finding it difficult to make a bare living. There is an opportunity for the building of a road

here which would be part of the north-south road connecting with the trans-Canada highway at Revelstoke, and which would provide access to satisfactory markets for a good number of the farmers in that area.
To illustrate the situation, I might mention that there is a great deal of hay produced in that area. Last winter and at the present time there are hundreds of tons of surplus hay in the farmers' barns in that district. That is hay over and above that required to feed the stock in the valley. There is a good market for hay within 90 miles. The reason the hay remains in the farmers' barns is that the cost of transporting it is so great that it does not pay to ship the hay to the market. It has to be transported by boat a distance of about 40 miles. The cost of shipping it by boat that short distance exceeds the cost of transporting it hundreds of miles on the Canadian Pacific Railway. The construction of an access road about 25 miles in length would connect that valley with the markets that are required for the prosperity and well-being of those farmers. I urge the government to consider extending assistance to provincial governments for the building of such roads.
There is one other matter of importance with which I wish to deal. I am presenting these matters to the government of the day as opportunities which I trust it will seize with both hands. About 5,000 of my constituents have been denied satisfactory radio reception ever since radio reception became possible in Canada. Because of the strength of radio signals from United States stations many of my constituents in the northern portion of the Kootenays are denied the opportunity of listening to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation after dark, and during the day the reception is far from satisfactory. In view of the report of the royal commission on television and broadcasting, and in view of the minister's reply to my repeated questions in the house, I do urge that the government consider the early provision of satisfactory radio reception to the 5,000 of my constituents denied that opportunity at the present time, as part of a public investment program in Canada.
With these very limited requests, Mr. Speaker-I think they are most modest-I now want to turn in another direction. I might say that I am sorry I was not in the house yesterday when the Minister without Portfolio, the hon. member for Greenwood (Mr. Macdonnell), spoke. I must say that I know he has the respect of all hon. members, and as far as this group is concerned, their affection. Two of us-my seatmate, the hon. member for Assiniboia (Mr. Argue) and
The Address-Mr. Herridge myself-came to the house as freshmen members when the hon. gentleman first arrived. Naturally we know one another very well.
I was particularly disappointed at not being present in the house when he spoke yesterday but, as usual, I had a valid excuse. I had some very interesting and important people from the city of Toronto, connected with a strictly non-political organization, come to see me about a matter of serious concern to many Canadians. I had to listen to their representations, and they were very pleased to listen to my advice and suggestions. However, owing to that unexpected interruption at an unfortunate time, so far as my opportunity to listen to the hon. member for Greenwood was concerned, I missed what I found on reading Hansard this morning were his most enjoyable remarks.
I noticed, Mr. Speaker, that he made some reference to the members of the C.C.F. group in a very kindly way, as he usually does. He told a story, something to the effect-we also had very similar war experiences-that owing to battle casualties, on one occasion the rum rations came up for a full company when there were only seven or eight left after the battle had ended. He said the seven or eight consumed the rations sent up to the line for a full company, and as a consequence momentarily lost all their terror and fears of war, and so on. The hon. member rather indicated that that simile could be applied to the C.C.F. because we are few in number. He suggested that we were given rations of information from a rearguard outside this building, which removed our fear of the overwhelming majority of the Conservative party.
I want to tell him that I had a similar experience to his during the battle of the Somme. Our company was very severely decimated during one attack, and a very few men in the company had the rum rations which were originally intended for the almost full strength of the company before it went into action. In this case the rum rations came into the hands of a well-known sergeant whom the Minister of Public Works knew quite well. He tried to drink the full rum jar himself. He did not believe in the redistribution of wealth; and I can well understand it, Mr. Speaker, because at the very time he was serving in the forces he was the president of the local Conservative association in his district.
I have listened with great interest to this debate, Mr. Speaker, and to the contribution made by the new members. I well understand their fear when making a speech in the House of Commons for the first time; but I must say that some of them, in their references to this group, exposed their ignorance and indicated

The Address-Mr. Herridge that they misunderstood what the C.C.F. stand for and what this group advocates and stands for in the House of Commons. I presume that would be occasioned by the environment of Conservative campaign headquarters, which would not be a very suitable atmosphere for the development of logical thinking and thought.


Mr. Cardiff:: Will the hon. member speak a little louder and not just to the C.C.F. and Mr. Speaker, so we can all hear.


Herbert Wilfred Herridge: I am very sorry; I always like to be heard and I want to be heard. Perhaps the policies of this movement, shall I say, in total were first brought to the attention of this house, or introduced in this house, on March 2, 1932, as the result of a debate on a motion moved by the late J. S. Woods-worth; and for the information of the neophytes in the house I am going to read it. It will be found at page 726 of Hansard of 1932. Mr. Woodsworth moved as follows:
Whereas under our present economic arrangement large numbers of our people are unemployed and without the means of earning a livelihood for themselves and their dependants;
And whereas the prevalence of the present depression throughout the world indicates fundamental defects in the existing economic system;
Be it therefore resolved: That, in the opinion of this house the government should immediately take measures looking to the setting up of a co-operative commonwealth in which all natural resources and the socially necessary machinery of production will be used in the interests of the people and not for the benefit of the few.
I say to hon. gentlemen that he was not suggesting that all property and real estate should be publicly owned, but that all property be used in the interests of the people. Undoubtedly the capitalist system has a great many achievements to its credit. I suppose it is correct to say that the problem of production has been largely solved, but the problem of distribution at home and abroad is still unsolved and that is why members of this group advocate the economic policies they do. To prove that point I want to quote from a speech made by a former prominent Progressive Conservative cabinet minister. Mr. H. H. Stevens, former minister of trade and commerce, in a speech to the Empire club in Toronto on October 8, 1930, had this to say:
While one-third of the human race, which might be termed western civilization, including Europe and North America, has so perfected the system of mechanized production that it has more goods than it can consume or sell, the other two-thirds of the human race, which can be classified as eastern civilization, is in dire need of those things which lie rotting in the possession of the other division, and over the whole human race hangs, like a funeral pall, want, poverty, idleness and social disintegration.
That is exactly what is occurring in many sections of the east at present. There has

been very little improvement in the capitalist system and the conditions complained of in this speech by a former minister of trade and commerce in a Conservative administration.
I want to give one other quotation before coming to my brief remarks. Professor Blackett, who is very well known, recently said according to the Economist of September 7, 1957:
The uneven division of power and wealth, the wide differences of power and comfort among the nations of mankind, are the sources of discord in the modern world, its major challenge and, unrelieved, its moral doom.
This is the condition we in this group aim to correct, and it is one of the serious problems that face us at the present time. You know hon. gentlemen, when they were speaking in support of the capitalist system and in criticism of the policies of this group, spoke as if the capitalist system was devised when Adam and Eve were on the earth. As a matter of fact capitalism is a relatively new institution in the history of the human race.
I suppose there were many centuries of feudalism, but I think it is safe to say that capitalism began about 1769, with the advent of the steam engine. So we have had about 189 years of a capitalist society, a very short time in the total lifetime of the human race.
What do we in this group aim to do? I want to deal with that very briefly and then go on to another topic in which we are particularly interested. I am giving this more in the nature of a lecture to a class in economics. We in the C.C.F. aim to develop a politically moral society as distinct from the present politically unctuous society. I think the word "unctuous" is a good word when you listen to some of the statements made by members on the government side with such self-satisfaction, with almost an air of superiority and such confidence in the belief that the Progressive Conservative party is going to be in power from now until eternity.
I must say that we respect the honest convictions of all persons who aim to use our constitutional and parliamentary procedures to improve our social order. We do not question the purpose, intention or integrity of the hon. gentlemen opposite us. We question their judgment, their knowledge of economic history and their understanding of economic and social development today. What does the C.C.F. aim to do?


Lewis Elston Cardiff: Nothing.


Herbert Wilfred Herridge: Mr. Speaker, that is the longest speech the hon. gentleman has made in this house for some years.


John Whitney Pickersgill: And the most intelligent.


Herbert Wilfred Herridge: The C.C.F. offers its program as an alternative to the political dictatorship

of communism and the economic dictatorship of monopoly capitalism. While we hear repeatedly of the free enterprise society and that the hon. gentlemen support the free enterprise society, if you study the facts you know that the genuine free enterprise sections of our economy are being erased, shall I say, day after day by the increasing economic power of fewer and fewer corporations in every industry in North America.
Now, Mr. Speaker, it is fair to say that our program is based on an understanding of Canadian history, Canadian traditions and Canadian psychology. We offer it as a democratic socialist alternative to the policies advanced by the two major parties. There is some difference between our party and the other parties. Our policies are devised at biennial conventions on the national level and at annual conventions on the provincial level. Our policies are the result of long and full discussion at these conventions.
We are often criticized for not being democratic. Well, the convention, the opportunity to discuss and decide, is considered the basis of a democratic society. What about the Liberal party? 1 think it has had four national conventions when it wanted to elect new leaders since 1896. What about the Conservative party? They must be given credit for having had one or two more conventions, but only because they change their leaders more frequently. Anyway, that is the basis of our program and our policy in the federal and provincial fields.
What about financial support? The major parties willingly admit how they obtain their contributions. A prominent member of the Progressive Conservative organization in my constituency informed me of the large contributions received from a certain company in British Columbia, and he considered it was quite proper and quite fair. Where do we get our contributions? We get our contributions from the members and supporters of the C.C.F. or in some cases from people who partly believe in our program but think we are going in the right direction and so on. Ours is a collection of small amounts from the people. Therefore we respond naturally to those people who have indicated their support in that way, as possibly others will respond to the sources from which their campaign funds come.
What do we propose? We propose a mixed economy as the best approach to economic and social problems at the present time, an economy which will contain an expanding area of public ownership in the federal, provincial and municipal fields wherever private interests fail to accept their responsibilities, or wherever it is clearly indicated that it is in the public interest and to the
The Address-Mr. Herridge public advantage to develop a certain project or industry under public ownership. We believe in a great expansion of co-operative ownership because we believe that co-operative ownership is a training ground in the administration of public affairs.
At one o'clock the house took recess.


[Stage Direction]
AFTER RECESS

The house resumed at 2.30 p.m.
Herbert Wilfred Herridge: Mr. Speaker, when the house recessed at one o'clock for bodily sustenance I was just dealing with the triple aspects of the C.C.F. domestic program which we term the mixed economy. 1 had dealt briefly with the matter of public ownership and was then dealing with the question of co-operative ownership, in which the C.C.F. is very seriously concerned. I was going to say that the C.C.F. believes in a vast expansion of co-operative ownership and development in Canada, not as the result of a reluctant government passing legislation that makes this type of ownership legal, but as the result of education, sponsorship and financial assistance on the part of the respective governments concerned.
In addition to the economic values of cooperative ownership to the people of Canada, we believe there is a great value in its development of the understanding of democratic processes, because in co-operative ownership people have an opportunity to understand the administration of democratic procedures both on the political and administrative levels.
Third, we in the C.C.F. believe there is a tremendous opportunity for the expansion of what we term legitimate private or free enterprise. What we mean by that is a situation in which there is a genuine element of competition; where there is no exploitation of the community as the result of monopoly, and where there is a service rendered to the community as there is at present by many small businessmen operating industries, services and things of that sort. Where there is a genuine expression of the principle of competition we believe there is a great opportunity for the expansion of legitimate free enterprise.
As my time is drawing to a close, Mr. Speaker, I must conclude my explanation of C.C.F. policy. I see a member applauding the fact that my time is drawing to a close, and I am rather disappointed. I suggest to the new members of the Progressive Conservative party-I have given up suggesting it to the ancient members of the Liberal party- that if they want to understand our program
626	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. G. Campbell more fully they should read our literature, refer to the pages of Hansard, and listen to our speeches.
Moving from the general to the particular, in view of our great interest in things that are of immediate concern and interest to the Canadian people from day to day, I want to deal briefly with a problem which is of increasing concern to the municipalities across Canada. That is the shortage of funds with which to carry on properly the functions for which they were created. I am reminded of this subject particularly in view of a recent report by the Bank of Canada which I read in yesterday's Gazette. It reads:
Canada's municipalities are going deeper into debt. The money they owed for schools, roads and other essentials rose to $3,128,300,000 at the end of 1957 from $2,785,200,000 at the end of 1956, the Bank of Canada reported today.
I have not the time to elaborate or explain the difficulties facing municipalities. All hon. members know them. We in the C.C.F. believe in action in this respect because of the urgency of this situation. I listened with interest this morning to the Prime Minister suggesting he was going to call an informal conference in September. As a matter of fact, it reminded me of a meeting called in the parish hall by the district nurse for mothers with undernourished children in order to discuss a new bottle formula they will have the opportunity of purchasing at the corner drug store.
Therefore I move, seconded by the hon. member for Assiniboia (Mr. Argue):
That the following words be added to the address:
We respectfully represent to Your Excellency that, in the opinion of this house, consideration should be given to the advisability of presenting legislation at this session to relieve the very heavy financial burden now carried by the municipalities of this country.


Mr. Grant Campbell (Stormont):: Mr. Speaker, may I associate myself with all those hon. members who paid their respects to you on the occasion of your unanimous re-election to the high office of Speaker of the House of Commons. Even my brief and cursory exposure to this house has been sufficient to convince me how well-founded is your reputation for learning, urbanity and fairness.
I take pleasure also in extending my congratulations to the mover (Mr. Lafreniere) and seconder (Mr. Nielsen) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne upon the distinguished manner in which they carried out their tasks. The hon. member for Quebec-Montmorency displayed a wit and eloquence which we expect of members from la belle province. The hon. member for Yukon has the unenviable reputation of having fought


three elections in the space of nine months, and proved himself to be a formidable speaker, a worthy representative of that rugged land.
To the people of Stormont I extend sincere thanks for their support and the assurance that they can count on me at all times to do whatever can be done to help my county and my country. The constituency which I have the honour to represent and serve comprises the whole of the county of Stormont which, along with Glengarry on the east and Dundas on the west, makes up the historic "old eastern district." This area so aptly described as the cradle of Ontario, is equally the cradle of the western provinces. The epitome of this fact is the little village of St. Andrews, about 70 miles southwest of here at the southern end of the county, where both John Sandfield Macdonald, the first premier of Ontario, and Simon Fraser, the celebrated explorer, lie buried. Most of the Nor-West partners either originated in or retired to this area. I could mention many, but the names of William MacGillivray, Angus McGillis, David Thomson, MacDonald of Garth and John Duncan Campbell will suffice. Incidentally, sir, the latter was my greatgrandfather and MacDonald was his father in law.
The earliest pioneers in many parts of the prairies were transplanted from this area, as were the first gold miners in the Kootenays and the Cariboo, such as Cariboo Cameron. The original settlers in Stormont, amongst them my ancestors on both sides of the family, were Highlanders and Palatinates who were forced by the American revolution to abandon their homes in the Mohawk valley for the wilderness of Upper Canada. These hardy Scotch and Dutoh people, along with their French Canadian compatriots who now make up 53.9 per cent of the population of my home town of Cornwall, share the unique distinction of being the only people in the civilized world who have never lived under a republican form of government. The English, after a disastrous experience with Cromwell, have not repeated their mistake.
On July 1 of this year the land on which many of these Stormont pioneers and their descendants have lived will disappear forever beneath the waters of the St. Lawrence as 34,000 acres of land on both sides of the border are inundated within four days. At 4 a.m. on this date a button will be pushed on the Iroquois control dam lifting massive steel gates to let a flow of water from lake Ontario enter the huge lake which will be formed as a reservoir for the power plant at Cornwall. The most dramatic moment in the whole four-year job of building the

St. Lawrence seaway and power project is scheduled for 8 a.m., when 30 tons of explosives will blast two 100-foot gaps in the earthen cofferdam that blocks off the powerhouse area.
Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the city council and the good people of Cornwall may I extend a very warm invitation to as many hon. members as can escape from their onerous duties to attend the inundation ceremonies this July 1 to 4. Our Prime Minister, the lieutenant governor and premier of Ontario and many other dignitaries have graciously consented to attend. I can assure you that both bread and circuses will be provided for your enjoyment and that there will be everything from street dancing to- well, you name it.
Despite some misunderstanding and even injustices inevitable in an undertaking of this size, the Ontario hydro has dealt generously with the people displaced by this project, as is evidenced by the splendid modern communities of Ingleside and Long Sault in which they now live. However, I am not one of those who tend to confuse all changes with progress. We must ensure that the people of Canada, and particularly my constituents who have endured the most, derive the maximum benefit from this vast undertaking. Already some sectional United States interests, the same selfish interests which were violently opposed to the seaway itself and delayed its construction for more than two decades, are trying to promote prohibitive tolls.
The seaway project was advocated and nationally supported in Canada almost entirely on the ground of national defence and because it would increase and improve domestic transportation facilities. The new seaway will in many important instances offer no new benefits to present users. Tolls will only add unnecessarily to the cost of many raw materials which have always been carried through the existing waterways without charges on cargoes. The bulk commodities used by many industries in the lake Ontario area will suffer unfair and costly disadvantage from a toll-encumbered seaway, as will the package freight trade between all Canadian ports from Montreal to the great lakes. The suggestion of tolls was entirely a United States concept, and their acceptance would be unjust and inequitable to Canada, especially on the basis of a joint toll system. Whereas the United States will require to recover only $130 million to repay their costs, there is owing to Canada something in the neighbourhood of $300 million.
To meet these United States terms toll charges would have to be set so high that the seaway would attract little if any traffic
The Address-Mr. G. Campbell in addition to the present freight volume. The effect of this would be to penalize present Canadian users severely without providing any corresponding benefits. Toll rates as recommended by the toll committees who are studying this matter at this time will undoubtedly be proposed on the basis of expected traffic volume. Since future traffic will vary in direct ratio to the economic advantages offered by this new seaway, there will be no reliable guide for estimates based on arbitrarily established toll rates. Trade and traffic patterns take a long time to establish themselves. Once set, they are extremely difficult to change. The immediate imposition of tolls even of an ostensibly reasonable nature might conceivably nullify both the immediate and the long-term benefits that Canada has every right to expect from the seaway. If shipping shuns the seaway from the beginning because of tolls, it might take a very long time indeed to lure it back.
May I therefore respectfully suggest that the best action for our government to take at this stage may very well be to adopt the recommendations made by the toll committees but to suspend the implementation of any toll charges until a reliable traffic pattern has emerged. This procedure is entirely within Canada's rights as a principal partner in the seaway. It should apply to the Welland canal and all seaway locks under Canadian administration, regardless of what is done in the two United States operated locks.
May I also say that some of my constituents regard the huge seaway headquarters building in Cornwall as a monument erected to himself by a former illustrious minister of transport. Others regard this same building as a poor consolation prize for the loss of the canal at Cornwall to the Americans. Rightly or wrongly they attribute the amazing expansion of Massena, New York from a country crossroads to an industrial metropolis to the proximity of this canal. Meanwhile Cornwall has acquired not a single major industry since the last war, and unemployment has been chronic during most of this period.
I look forward to the time when many of these difficulties will be rectified by the construction of an all-Canadian seaway, for which provision has been made by removable gates in the diversion canal which intersects the dike at Cornwall and by the dredging of a 27 foot draft canal in the adjacent natural waters. In addition to the much needed employment which would be provided in the Cornwall area, I understand there are very substantial technical advantages to be derived from a Canadian canal. The downstream entrance would be in slack water and the

The Address-Mr. G. Campbell restricted channel would be confined to a distance of three miles, as compared to 15 miles in the United States system.
Regardless of how soon the all-Canadian seaway is built, my constituents would derive great benefit from the construction of harbour facilities east of Cornwall where shipping turns south to enter the United States canal, and where in the event of a future Canadian canal it would continue west. Such docking space would doubtless create its own traffic, and would be a tremendous inducement to new industry to locate in this area.
This harbour project, in conjunction with a new direct highway linking Ottawa with the partially constructed high level international bridge at Cornwall, which highway I hope and trust the province of Ontario has under consideration at this time, would hasten the realization of our dream of eastern Ontario as a golden triangle of thriving industries, prosperous farms and natural playgrounds. The products of the Ottawa valley would have an outlet at Cornwall both to the United States by road and to the rest of the world by water and tourists in vast number would De attracted via Cornwall or Kingston to the beauties of the Canadian capital, the Rideau inkes, the Thousand islands and the seaway park system.
It was with great satisfaction that I heard in the speech from the throne of the great public works program to be initiated by this government. I am confident that it will give serious consideration not only to these harbour facilities but to the construction of air strips and navigational aids at Cornwall. I believe that a municipal airport would put Cornwall on the air map and would help this area to achieve the glowing potential which is its destiny.
I am proud, Mr. Speaker, to be a supporter of the first government in 30 years to represent all the people of Canada, and the first government in 30 years that has representation from every province in this vast dominion stretching from sea to sea, and from the rivers to the ends of the earth. Two of the problems which have haunted this country since its inception have been largely solved by the victory of the Conservative party under the inspired leadership of our Prime Minister on March 31 of this year. Implicit in confederation are two assumptions; first, a working agreement on the division of powers between the federal and provincial governments, and second, a degree of tolerance as between the two main cultural groups of this country. This election has established the validity of Bamum's dictum, "You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time,


but you can't fool all the people all the time". The old Liberal tactic of divide et impero, of playing one part of the country against the other and of exaggerating sectional and cultural cleavages, is finished. The flood waters of Conservatism have left the Liberals stranded high and dry like branches on a dead tree and have inundated the party of the left. The Progressive Conservative party has come to power and it has done so on the basis of a very general support. It cannot be said that this party won its victory because it was the representative of business or of the affluent classes in Canadian society. It could never have attained this power without the support of a very large part of the labour vote, without a large percentage of the farm vote, and without the support of that other labour class which does not like to be called labour and which suffers more for its pretensions than any other class in this country, the white collar class.
I believe one of the significant aspects of this election was something that, judging from the labour congress which has just come to an end in Winnipeg, the labour leaders have not yet assessed themselves. That is, that the labour population of this country does not follow either its elected or its intellectual leadership. I must confess that I am puzzled about this, but when one looks at the voting history of labour in Canada one must see that with few exceptions it has never supported the C.C.F., which group has often been called the political arm of labour. In Windsor in the last election people supported the Liberals, as they had for years, and in other main industrial centres such as Vancouver, Montreal, Hamilton and Toronto, they helped to pile up this huge majority for the Conservative party. Maybe it is true after all, as many people have said on this continent, that labour at the present time is one of the Conservative forces in our society. A recent Gallup poll indicates that 49 per cent of the labour vote in this country went to Conservatives, so if we have a labour party in Canada at the present time it is the Progressive Conservative party.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Grant Campbell: This, Mr. Speaker, is what labour said when it spoke with its vote and this, I am pleased to say, is one of the reasons I am standing here today.
I wish to urge an expansion of our domestic consumption, but if we are to have such expansion I believe our government must give thought to something which has not been mentioned in the speech from the throne. That is an adjustment of the profit structure existing in our economy. I consider that one of the main causes of the depression of

1929 and of our present recession is the fact that when profits become too large and, as a result, are indiscriminately salted away or ploughed back into producer industry, the consumer does not then have enough money to consume all the goods which our economy produces.


An hon. Member:: That is straight socialism.


Grant Campbell: The only way we are able to consume all the goods Canadian and United States factories produce in such vast quantities is by borrowing, and this condition has caused inflation. I believe it is apparent, if we are willing to face this fact, that a lot of the people who have washing machines and refrigerators, television sets and automobiles, have them not because they have enough money to pay for them but because they are borrowing on next year's income. As long as we maintain an economy on borrowed money we will have to borrow more and more money until the time comes when nobody will lend. When all your salary is going for what you bought two years ago you cannot buy anything now. This, in essence, is just what has happened in Canada and in the United States.
The only way we could consume the goods we are able to produce is if we were to raise the income of the average member of our society to the point where he could buy these things without borrowing. It should be understood, and perhaps it is understood, by those who are in a position to reap profits that if this capitalistic, industrial society of ours is to work then there must be an adjustment downward in those profits. Since world war II it has been very easy to see that the profits of large corporations have spiralled upward at the same rate that those receiving those profits have complained about the spiralling of inflation. Inflation is caused when people continue to buy and consume goods even when they are not earning sufficient to pay for them, and this adjustment must be made if our economy is to enjoy the benefits of full prosperity and employment.
I was most impressed by the government's plan for the development of our north country, but I have been perturbed by some of the talk accompanying this hoped-for development. Such talk is confined to the prospect of digging up minerals and selling them. We should, however, remember that digging up minerals is not going to help our present unemployment problem very much until we can sell the minerals we have already dug out of the earth. I trust any development of the north will be of a kind which will lend itself to the development of consumer industries as well as producer industries in that territory.
The Address-Mr. G. Campbell
We have reached the point where we are really facing a major decision, as to whether we shall remain a country which produces raw material or whether we shall try to develop more fully into a country which processes more of our raw material, thereby developing its own culture and civilization. In all history there is no record of a country ever becoming great by exporting its material resources in their raw state. I know there are grave problems involved in this development, but I believe they can be overcome by a government which has vision and courage.
I was very glad to note in' the speech from the throne that the most obvious and necessary consumer industry, that of home building, has received increased assistance. There has been a very tangible example of such assistance in my own constituency iri the recent announcement by the Minister of Public Works on behalf of Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation arid by the Ontario minister of planning and development with respect to the construction in Cornwall of subsidized low-rental housing comprising 125 units at an estimated cost of approximately $1 million. This is in addition to a 300-unit federal-provincial project already approved in March of this year.
In my constituency the unemployment situation is critical. In Cornwall, the only town of any size-having a population of approximately 41,000 people-there are three main industries; Howard Smith Paper Mills Limited, Canadian Textiles Limited and Cour-tauld's Canada Limited. The latter two are textile firms and the three plants normally employ in the neighbourhood of 2,000 men each. The pulp and paper mill is in a relatively buoyant condition, but the condition of the two textile mills could only be described as distressing.
There are certain misconceptions about the textile industry, especially the primary cotton manufacturing industry, which must be cleared up before any realistic appraisal can be made of the situation. First it must be emphasized, as was substantiated by the Gordon commission, that Canadian textile mills are not only among the most efficiently organized in the industry, but they are also well equipped to produce the highest quality textile products. A number of mills have closed down due to foreign pressure and tight money. When these casualties are discussed they are attributed to the change in trends in consumer uses of synthetics. In fact, however, the new uses for nylon, orlon and the other synthetic fabrics, particularly when blended with the older natural fibres like wool and cotton, have actually strengthened the industry, not weakened it. The manufacturers who use synthetic fibres almost exclusively,

The Address-Mr. G. Campbell have been among the hardest hit in bearing the brunt of this foreign competition.
The producers of Europe and Asia enjoy many advantages over Canadian mills, in that they all pay much lower wages and most are subsidized in one form or another by their governments. United States producers, of course, have the economies of specialization and large scale production due to their vast markets.
Second, and contrary to the opinion of our predecessors on this side of the house, the textile industry is not expendable. In fact since world war II the Canadian industry has actually invested well over $400 million in new plants, equipment and processes. Do not let anyone tell you that the textile people are giving up after more than 100 years of operation in this country! This industry is vital to our economy for several reasons. It is uniquely Canadian in that about 80 per cent of its equity stock is owned by Canadians. It is not subject to the seasonal fluctuations that have plagued the producer industries in this country. It is centred in the smaller towns where there is no alternative source of employment. And finally, it employs a large number of female and unskilled labour which could not find employment elsewhere.
Cotton production is as native to Canada as it is to Lancashire, and dates from the same period. For that matter, it is as native to Canada as aluminum. The cotton textile industry alone comprises 76 mills mostly located in Ontario and Quebec, and it employs
23,000	people while about 88,000 are employed in the whole industry in normal times.
Prior to the war the Canadian cotton mills supplied over 70 per cent of the total cotton fabric market in this country. Today, however, their share is under 50 per cent of the over-all Canadian market. From a total value of $15,500,000 in 1939, United States textile imports into this country have risen to $145 million in 1956; from approximately $15 million to approximately $145 million within a few short years. Canada has become the third largest net importer of cotton goods in the world. Only Australia and Indonesia import more, and neither of those countries has a cotton textile industry of its own.
The third misconception about this industry is that they are urging the construction of a high tariff wall to shelter them from the winds of competition. In fact, however, the proposals made by the cotton producers to the tariff board which is presently sitting are designed to correct anomalies, to rectify unplanned and accidental developments, to take account of technological changes and generally to catch up with the last 30 years since the tariff schedule was last studied as a whole.
[Mr. Campbell (Stormont) .1
Some increases in duty rates are proposed but there are also some decreases proposed, and in some places no change is suggested. Although the cotton tariff schedule has changed little in more than 30 years the industry is stressing before the tariff board that there has been one change of great importance. This is a change in the wording of the tariff item on coloured fabrics, made in the United States trade treaty of 1939. Until that time these cloths were classified in a single tariff item without regard to their value. In 1939 the tariff was divided so that the goods of the lowest value per pound received unchanged protection but reduced duties were provided on higher priced specialty fabrics. Now, with the price increases which have taken place since, almost all imported fabrics are in the higher priced class so naturally they come under the lowest rate of duty.
This means that the reasonable protection intended in 1939 to cover most coloured fabrics made in Canada now covers practically none at all. Instead, almost all are imported at the low rates intended for a few high priced specialties. In any new tariff schedule it is probably preferable that fabrics be classified by construction rather than by value brackets, which could quickly become meaningless by reason of price changes.
Dumping, particularly from the United States, is a major concern of the cotton textile industry. The present anti-dumping regulations can be invoked only if the export sale price of the foreign made product is less than the average price for which it was sold during the previous six months in the home market of the exporter. These regulations can be circumvented in so many ways that it has thrown an almost impossible task on the customs people. Probably the most effective measure would be a return to the original anti-dumping regulations enforced before 1948, which required that the export price include the full cost of manufacturing plus a markup for distribution, selling and profit, together with an adequate customs staff to enforce them. Due to overproduction and the chaotic state of the United States textile industry there has been a flood of imports into Canada recently. The United States mills are actually exporting their depression to Canada. The need for action is urgent.
As my time has just about expired, Mr. Speaker, I shall have to consider the problems of the dairy farmers in my constituency at a later date. I might say that although the agricultural price stabilization bill was generally welcomed by farmers, many adjustments in the administration of the legislation remain to be made before the primary-producer can derive full benefits.

In closing, if what I have said does not sufficiently explain to hon. members of the opposition why they are sitting where they are, another reason is that the people of Canada were tired of being manipulated. They want to be led, and they find in the Prime Minister, as their fathers found in Sir John A. Macdonald, a man with many human weaknesses, generous in his instincts, with the courage to tell us that materialism is not enough; one possessed of that vision without which the people perish, who can express that vision in lofty words and translate it into effective action.
As hon. gentlemen opposite are so anxious to point out, our Prime Minister is probably embarassed by the great numbers and high quality of his supporters.
We must not abuse our powers as others before us have done; but we must be careful that in trying like Caesar's wife to be above reproach we do not stultify action, necessary action, even on controversial problems. Great power can also be a power for good.
The immense resources of talent, youthful vigour and idealism available to this government give it a magnificent opportunity to accomplish great things. I for one would much rather see it go down in history as a government that did many great and good things, even though it made great mistakes, than as a government which never made a mistake because it attempted nothing and achieved nothing. With great privilege comes great responsibility. This is a time for greatness, and the heirs of Macdonald and Disraeli should not shrink from it.
(Translation):


Mr. H. Pit Lessard (St. Henry):: Mr. Speaker, first of all I should like to congratulate you on your re-election as Speaker of the House of Commons. I should also like to congratulate the hon. member for Longueuil (Mr. Sevigny) on his election as Deputy Speaker and my two colleagues who respectively moved and seconded the address in reply to the speech from the throne. I also congratulate my two other colleagues who were appointed respectively Minister of Defence Production (Mr. O'Hurley) and Secretary of State (Mr. Courtemanche).
Mr. Speaker, it is for me a duty to convey here my thanks to the electors of my constituency of St. Henry for putting their confidence in me in electing me to represent them in this house.
The constituency I represent is one of workmen, many of whom are now unemployed. At the end of April, 1957, the Canadian Press reported that one out of ten em-
The Address-Mr. Lessard ployable workers was unemployed. Today, more than 800,000 are registered with the National Employment Service. When we consider that, since the closing months of 1957, the number of unemployed has been growing at the rate of 20,000 workers per month, the situation can be expected to become increasingly alarming. It is for this reason that I should like to submit to this house a project the implementation of which could be recommended by the city of Montreal to the federal government.
I refer to a throughway for Montreal. It would cover, all told, about 14 miles from east to west. It would start at the provincial highway, across Montreal West, follow the street-car tracks along the Lachine canal, then run along St. Ambroise street, Notre Dame street, Commissioners street, then the shore up to Pointe aux Trembles to link with the Montreal-Quebec highway.
Between Place Royale and Bonsecours market, which means a distance of about 3 miles, this superhighway could fit into the harbour development. At that spot, of heavy traffic, the harbour needs vital space. The decrepit houses on St. Paul street could be torn down, to provide space for it. This would also enlarge the harbour area and provide badly needed parking space in that particular area of Montreal.
In the western part, i.e., between Guy street and the Cote St. Paul road, the project could be combined with slum clearance and the renovation of older residential districts where many thousand working families now live. At that site, particularly north of Notre Dame street, between Seigneurs and Atwater streets, and also south of Notre Dame street, between Atwater street and the Cote St. Paul road, there would be enough room for more than 10,000 workers' low rental homes to replace the slums which are hardly conducive to comfort, or physical and moral health.
A throughway along those lines would not only promote prosperity at the port of Montreal, but would also be a factor in civil defence and adequately solve the slums problem and answer the need for low-rental homes for workers. All these matters come under federal jurisdiction.
I therefore urge the ministers concerned to give serious consideration to those brief remarks. I have made them in good faith and they are, to my mind, a realistic approach to present difficulties. The project, if carried out would benefit all Canadians and the government too.

The Address-Mr. Korchinski
(Text):


Mr. S. J. Korchinski (Mackenzie):: Mr. Speaker, as I rise lor the first time may I add my humble words of congratulation to you, to your deputy and to the other officers who have been elected to high offices in this house. Permit me also to extend the heartiest congratulations to the mover (Mr. Lafreniere) and seconder (Mr. Nielsen) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne.
I must confess that I cannot help but note that I have been placed in a rather peculiar position. The hon. gentlemen opposite are in fact with me, or beside me, or vice versa; the hon. gentlemen who are on my right are actually hon. gentlemen opposite, and the hon. gentlemen who are to my extreme right are to my left politically. However, from all this confusion I do hope that some clear-cut and definite proposals may be provided in order that the position of Canada and Canadians may be improved generally.
On this occasion I should like to describe briefly the constituency I represent, in order that hon. members may associate me with that part of Canada and so they may better understand the type of problems that arise and the solutions that may from time to time be proposed.
Mackenzie lies in the northwestern corner of the province of Saskatchewan. It is about 90 miles wide and approximately 600 miles long; in fact, in appearance it is like a miniature province of Saskatchewan. Its physical features too are very similar to those of the whole province of Saskatchewan, again on a miniature scale. The northern part of the constituency possesses an abundance of timber, lakes, rivers and rock formations that may in the near future prove to possess quantities of minerals. Recent activities in the vicinity of Hanson lake have added force to this view. In these areas are settlements where people make a living by fishing, trapping, mining in the area around Flin Flon and in the lumbering industry. Lumbering has always been an important source of income not only to those engaged directly m it but also to those farmers who have been able to supplement their income by finding employment during the winter months, which has helped to finance their farming operations.
You can well imagine the anxiety that was created when the The Pas Lumber Company had to curtail its operations and move to British Columbia. This was further aggravated by the announcement that the Saskatchewan timber board was to have suspended its operations in the town of Sturgis. However, we are very pleased with the recent announcement that a new blockboard (chipboard) factory is to be built in the vicinity of
[Mr. Lessard.)
the village of Arran. Recent surveys would indicate that there is a potential market on the prairies and also in certain areas of the United States that could be supplied where the saving in freight would make it more economical. It is hoped that this plant will provide considerable employment to many in that area. It may be of interest to the house to note that this plant is not a socialistic venture but a free enterprise endeavour.
I was rather amused the other day when the hon. member for Assiniboia said with reference to the election of March 31, as found on page 43 of Hansard of May 13:
A lot of people asked themselves: Should we not give the government a chance? Or, let's give John a chance.
Actually what a lot of people in my constituency were saying was, "Let's give the Prime Minister a chance to rid us of the socialists," for is it not true that farmers are the most individualistic and conservative people in Canada? Certainly they are not true socialists, for they love their independence; and if they did vote to give the Prime Minister a chance is it not an indication of the type of freedom-loving people we have in Canada? Did they not in the past send C.C.F representatives to the House of Commons to give them a chance to see what they could do? Is it not a credit to the people of Canada when they give recognition to a man who has done something for them, even though he had to do it in a short session of parliament?
For years, Mr. Speaker, we in the Mackenzie constituency, and I might say the people of Saskatchewan as a whole, have been wandering from one party to the other like an unwanted child drifting aimlessly from one foster parent to another, in the hope that one day we might be included in the family that now numbers ten. I can assure you, Mr. Speaker, that we have now been adopted by the Conservative party which wants us, which needs us as much as we need it if we are to secure that unity and harmony that is as necessary for a party as it is for a home.
It was not without difficulty that we achieved this. This may be some consolation to the hon. member for Hull, who was so perturbed about Mr. Duplessis. I do not profess to be an authority on Mr. Duplessis, but I can assure the hon. member that we have had to work against a machine also. But unlike the wonderful one-horse chaise that ran for 100 years to a day, this machine ran for only 44 years before it collapsed. This is commonly known in the west as the Gardiner machine.
In my constituency of Mackenzie, where the majority of the people live in the southern

portion, their primary occupation being agriculture, we have some 50 towns and villages dependent on this industry. These people know in what position the Liberal administration placed them. They are certainly thankful to the previous Conservative administration for providing the price stabilization legislation.
These people are largely small farmers who have been carrying on diversified farming. Those who have been producing grain only are calculating the possibility of going into the production of cattle, hogs, sheep and poultry. No doubt they had these ideas before, but there was nothing to guide them under the former lackadaisical, sunbathing Liberal administration which preferred to argue its way out of a situation rather than do something about it. The price stabilization legislation will certainly be a guide to many farmers who can now be reasonably assured that they can produce other commodities without losing the shirt off their back if the market should drop at the end of a producing season.
Cash advances also provided many with money when they needed it. If they have not provided any more money than the farmer would have had ordinarily, they have certainly provided money when he needed it and thus relieved him of the stress and strain that comes with having commitments to meet but no money to do it with.
Businessmen across the country have nothing but praise for this legislation. It has meant that they have been able to collect many accounts where credit was advanced to such a point that they had to close their businesses because of lack of sufficient collateral. Too often I have seen businesses that have been developing for years suddenly come to a grinding halt, unable to carry on because of lack of funds in the hands of the farmers upon whom they depend. Businessmen will certainly be grateful for the small business section that is to be established for the purpose of investigating their needs.
Cash advances have been of assistance to local municipalities, where collections of taxes have improved, resulting in a saving in interest charges. Measures such as these have been needed for years. I am sorry to say they were not provided by the Liberal administration. Because of their lack there has been an effect on the small villages, towns and rural municipalities that may take years to correct.
Problems have been created in the wake. Many businesses have been closed and farmers have left their land. Many of these people have worked for years to develop their farms, their businesses and their homes. They have been forced to leave because of the economic pressure that has been
The Address-Mr. Korchinski applied to them. Many of these men and women have appeared on the labour market, and the effects of this are being felt today.
Behind them they have left depleted communities. Every year the population has dwindled. For example, in the small nine-township municipality where I have served as reeve for the past six years our population has dwindled from 2,200 in 1952 to 1,700 in 1957. I know communities that had eight or nine general stores and now have only three. Unlike communities that suffer from lack of services because of what may be termed growing pains, we have suffered from what I call an overdose of reducing pills.
Problems arise in such a situation because just as many services must be provided but fewer people are left to pay for them. Many of our country schools have had to be closed; in fact many small villages have had pressure applied to them to close their schools, and transportation has had to be arranged to larger centres. As a result many parents have found it more convenient to leave their children at these larger centres for the duration of the school term. This is a situation that is certainly unhealthy and unwise. Growing children do not have the guidance of their parents which is so necessary.
Briefly that is the situation that existed under the supposedly paternal guidance of the Liberal administration. Is it any wonder that we in the west rebelled against their fostering? Is it any wonder that there are no Liberal members from west of Ontario? The situation I have described is serious, one that deserves the deepest consideration of every member of the House of Commons. This situation has undoubtedly been caused by the farmer's inability to meet his day to day costs. Almost continually these costs have been mounting. In spite of the fact that the farmers have continually improved their techniques in order to become more and more economical and to reduce the cost of production, they have been waging a losing battle.
The people of my constituency will certainly be pleased to hear that payments from the barley pool will soon be made. Undoubtedly, they will be just as pleased if this government could see its way clear to making a similar announcement with regard to deficiency payments. I should like to urge the government to give careful consideration to these proposals in order that we may correct some of the existing situation. If we cannot completely eliminate this exodus from the farms and villages, then perhaps we can
G34	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. Korchinski slow it down to a more orderly revolution if that is what we are undergoing now.
It is encouraging to note that this government has been providing salesmanship in the marketing of our wheat. Indications are that in the period from August, 1957 to March, 1958, Canada has provided 36 per cent of the total world wheat marketings. This represents an increase of 11 per cent from the 25 per cent share of the world export market we enjoyed during the same period a year ago. I should like to commend this government for this achievement. It is hoped that grain delivery quotas can be substantially raised as a result of these actions over those in effect last year. If this is done many areas in my constituency will have almost completely disposed of their stock of grain. In an area such as the one I represent this statement would be true mainly because of two factors. First, many of the farmers in my area are small farmers who feed a lot of their grain and who only farm a half or three-quarters of a section. Second, the drought and hail damage experienced last year has left many farmers with very little grain.
This brings me to another point that was mentioned in the speech from the throne, and that is the pending changes in the Prairie Farm Assistance Act. Many inequities exist at the moment as a result of the administration of this act, and until such time as we can implement crop insurance the proposed changes will certainly be welcome.
Another provision mentioned in the throne speech that will certainly be heralded with joy is the proposed amendment to the Canadian Farm Loan Act. Many farmers are experiencing difficulty now in procuring such loans. These farmers go from year to year without improving their position because they are not in a financial position to purchase land when it becomes available or to increase their herd. Actually, they are left in a poorer position as their land becomes older and their machinery depleted. It has been my experience that assistance provided to veterans under the Veterans Land Act has worked fairly well. The majority of these veterans have been able to establish themselves and, because of the availability of credit, are doing fairly well. Something of a similar nature, without the delays experienced under that act, should be formulated for farmers generally.
I should like to take a moment to deal with that portion of the throne speech which mentions the government's plans for the development of the north. I do this because of the efforts of many opposition members to belittle this idea. I feel I must refer to it


since I represent a constituency that extends to the boundaries of the Northwest Territories and because of the statement made in the house by the hon. member for Timmins (Mr. Martin). On page 324 of Hansard for May 21, 1958 he said:
Along the line taken by the hon. member for Bonavista-Twillingate (Mr. Pickersgill) I should like to assure them that in the north we get some lovely views of the northern lights and it is quite possible that their lack of success in the north could have been due to the fact that the good northern people may have mistaken this vision for just another example of these northern lights.
I should like to assure the hon. member that the good people of my constituency have captured that vision of the north. In fact, they caught that vision so well that they recorded a plurality in my favour over both the C.C.F. and Liberal candidates, and they were both honourable and respected gentlemen. The result has left many C.C.F. and Liberals bewildered. I hope, that while they are star-gazing, the dawn of development will soon appear for them. The people of my constituency have certainly caught the vision of the Prime Minister (Mr. Diefenbaker). They have seen their constituency neglected for too long to by-pass the opportunity afforded them. It is only through such a policy of development as was mentioned in the throne speech that roads such as the Hanson road and the Otosquen road will be provided so that access may be gained to the timber and mineral resources. My people are patiently awaiting the time when a second trans-Canada highway will one day cross their constituency, bringing with it a tourist trade. My constituents are certainly aware of the financial assistance that will be provided to the provinces for these much needed developments. This, in turn, should leave the provinces in a sounder financial position to provide assistance for schools, local roads and hospitals. Assistance of this type should provide relief from the heavy burden of taxes which have already reached the saturation point.
The people I represent are looking forward to the employment that will be provided by such projects as the South Saskatchewan dam. If these people find that they must seek employment, then they will appreciate finding this employment in an area near their homes. When these projects are undertaken, they will certainly revitalize the communities that have degenerated in the last few years. My constituents have certainly seen that vision, and it has given them hope. It is this same hope that has been registered in all of Canada and has brought about a unity of purpose unequalled in the history of Canada. This unity will be strengthened by the bill of rights that will be introduced this session. Although we in Canada have enjoyed a

measure of freedom which has been equalled by no others, the religious and ethnic groups will undoubtedly welcome this measure as a great victory for them. It will no doubt provide them with a measure of comfort to know that nothing short of a complete revolution could take away these freedoms.
Canada is a proud nation and we, as Canadians, are proud of our ancestry, whatever it may be. The two great races that helped to mould this nation into one which is jealously viewed by others not enjoying such a measure of freedom and independence, must certainly be proud. They have displayed a degree of tolerance and understanding that serves as a fine example to the rest of the world. With this same understanding we, as members of parliament, should go forward to build a better Canada, to build a better world. I am sure my constituents will agree with that.


Mr. W. C. Henderson (Cariboo):: Mr. Speaker, it is with the greatest of humility that I rise to address this house. First, I should like to congratulate you upon your election to the high post which you now hold. I am sure, judging by what I have seen and heard in this house, that every member will receive a fair hearing. I should like also to congratulate the deputy speaker and chairman as well as the mover (Mr. Lafreniere) and seconder (Mr. Nielsen) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne. I have nothing but praise to offer these two gentlemen. I have listened to many speakers over the past days hoping to learn something of Canada and its problems. I am sorry that I am not bilingual for I should certainly like to acquaint myself with the problems and the good points of that part of the country from which these French-speaking members come.
I should like now, Mr. Speaker, to tell you about the constituency which I represent. It is said that the constituency of Cariboo is the third largest in Canada. It has two cities and numerous small towns, the largest city being Prince George at the junction of the Fraser and Nechaki rivers. The chief industry in the area surrounding Prince George is lumbering. There are 600 sawmills there and enough lumber is piled up in the area surrounding Prince George to build a city as large as Edmonton. Farming and cattlefeeding play no small part in the economy of this section of the country. In the town of Quesnel on the Fraser river there is a plywood plant employing 400 workers. The Prince George planing mill gives employment to thousands of mill hands. Since this constituency is at the mouth of the Rocky mountain trench, great things are expected
The Address-Mr. Henderson when the Wenner-Gren plan gets into its stride. McBride is another centre some 80 miles east devoted to dairying and the growing of grass seeds.
This vast country is rich in minerals and oil at Fort St. John, on the banks of the mighty Peace river, which is a hustling young city. Here there are gas and oil wells stretching north from Fort St. John 500 miles to the Fort Nelson country on the river. Then on to the Lower Post, about 300 miles, this country is serviced by the famous Alaska highway which is no doubt the best and greatest gravelled highway on the North American continent. This country consists of mighty valleys so large that a country the size of Belgium could be dropped into one of them. The Alaska highway goes on into the Yukon. A range of mountains borders this land which abounds with game such as mountain goats, sheep, deer and bear. West to Quesnel we come to the ranching country and its mighty ranches. In that part of Canada we have much larger ranches than the much publicized ranches of Texas.
From Fort St. John you follow the Peace river west to Hudson Hope. There big interests are drilling for footings at the Rocky Mountain canyon. This canyon carries the river through a pass cut through the rocks. These rock walls are immense in height and you can hear the river rushing through the canyon for five miles. It is proposed to harness this river at this point to supply electricity to the city of Vancouver.
Surrounding Hudson Hope are numerous cattle ranches and farms growing alfalfa. A range of mountains divides my constituency, cutting it right down the middle. The state of New York could be placed between the Prince George area and the Dawson Creek area. Dawson Creek is the largest shipping point for grain in the British commonwealth. In the speech from the throne mention is made of the construction of a railway to Great Slave lake. I believe this railway should commence from Dawson Creek to Great Slave lake where it would pass over an immense body of iron ore at Hines Creek.
That part of the constituency which I have just mentioned consists of one of the finest farming areas in Canada. Mixed farming is the order of the day. The feeding of cattle is taking place on many farms and with the price of beef up there is bound to be an increase in the number of cattle being fed. Large acreages are being devoted to the growing of grass seeds. At present the kind most cultivated are Merion blue grass, creeping red fescue, brome grass and various clovers. Across the Peace river there is a large acreage devoted to the growing of wheat,

The Address-Mr. Ormiston flax, barley and oats. This land is being farmed in blocks of 1,000 to 2,000 acres and is really an empire in its own right.
The pipe line carrying gas to the coast runs through this district, coming from the wells at Taylor 20 miles west. The country has hundreds of oil wells as far north as Nelson. At Taylor, there is a large scrubbing plant. It is estimated that thousands of tons of sulphur will be shipped to the coast via the P.G.E. The railway will carry grain, lumber and livestock to the coast.
I think I have told you enough about this wonderful country which I represent. Under the leadership of our Prime Minister (Mr. Diefenbaker) this riding will again come into its heritage. After 23 years of inactivity under the Liberal government, we are now headed in the right direction. We now have a leader who has the understanding of the common people.
I was very pleased to hear in the speech from the throne about the housing program. In my constituency, as I have mentioned previously, we have enough lumber piled up to build a city the size of Edmonton.
I should like to see pensions raised, as the recipients of these would put the money received right back into circulation.
I should like to see the federal government assist in the cost of education. I know whereof I speak as I am, and have been chairman of school district No. 59 in British Columbia for some time. With a birthrate in my constituency higher than that in Delhi, India, we are having difficulty building enough schools.
The grain advances were certainly welcome and showed that the government is going to help the farmer and I believe that the P.F.A.A. should be amended. I am sure that with our present Prime Minister at the helm the Conservative government ship will sail into the sea of prosperity and good times.


Mr. J. N. Ormiston (Melville):: Mr. Speaker, it is a proud privilege to represent one's country in the councils of the nation. As one rises in this great chamber one feels an air of awe, inspired I suppose by those who have preceded us, men and women who have come here, by the democratic process, to make their contribution. Here, indeed, Mr. Speaker, is where the history of our great country has been written. Great men, inspired no doubt to carve their niches in the hall of fame, have set a standard for us to follow. They have played their full part in the onward march of civilization; they have handed to us a great trust, a great heritage. These builders of Canada, the Macdonalds, the Cartiers, the Lauriers, the Bordens and


the Meighens, all have played their full part. They are the mountain summits in the paths of human progress. We honour such men wherever we find them and we feel keenly their loss. One remains among us. I am thinking of the Right Hon. Arthur Meighen whose keen and analytical mind sought to find a greater destiny for our beloved country. In spite of what has gone before, we have not yet reached the crossroads; indeed, we seem but to have reached the beginning. Inspired by our great leader, the Prime Minister (Mr. Diefenbaker) I am sure we are on the threshold of a new and greater adventure in nation building.
This party, this government, I am sure is not going to view Canada in retrospect, except as a guidepost, but we are looking to the distant horizons, to our great hinterland, to the rich treasure which is indeed a challenge to our imagination. Provided with the type of leadership we now enjoy, I am sure Canada will go forward to attain her great destiny.
Millions will come to our shores to share our vast development and native Canadians will share the rich reward that beckons our best pioneering instincts. Speaking of the pioneers, I am not unmindful of our early beginning. I am deeply conscious of those who came to Canada in our early years. They did not seek any easy existence. They faced a great challenge. They accepted their lot and in Ontario and Quebec there was hewed from the virgin forest the beginning. They laid the foundation upon which future generations were to erect a superstructure, substantial in its parts and honourable to its builders. It is worthy of note that we have not failed. Constantly the march forward went on. In two tragic wars this nation gave a full account of itself. It is true that we paid a terrific price. More than 100,000 of our best and bravest lie buried under foreign soil-the lost generation-but they have written lines that will never fade from the brightest pages in Canadian history.
Came the opening of the great Northwest commonly referred to about the turn of the century. With the division of it into provinces in 1905, organized society turned earnestly to the development of this vast western domain. It is not necessary to repeat here mention of the contributions we as westerners have made to the national welfare. Certainly we stimulated activity in the east. Indeed we provided them with the incentive and markets to become a great industrial empire and there has been produced from those western lands billions upon billions of dollars in wealth.
Saskatchewan, my own great province, became recognized as the bread basket of the empire. We now realize that was but the

beginning. These prairies are again going to share with our sister provinces that wealth referred to as black gold by many. In addition there is our natural gas which is now being piped east to improve the productive and industrial capacity of Ontario and Quebec. However, that is as it should be, as far as I am concerned. Let us share our rich treasure. Let us weld ourselves into one great nation. Indeed, let us grow richer together. Yet in growing richer together we must not overlook the fact that while we all recognize that no one section can become richer by making some other part of the nation poorer, we on the plains do not want to be neglected.
That is the vision which captured the imagination of my people; the program, the policy enunciated by my right hon. leader fascinated the western people. Today they look forward with new hope, conscious of the fact that when this government creates, as I am sure it will, the right atmosphere, nothing can hold us back. Westerners are resourceful-of necessity they must be-and, given the incentive and leadership, we will all have cause to view with satisfaction the results of our efforts.
A word now about my own constituency and, incidentally, my principal concern. In June 1957 the pattern was set; by March of this year the rout was surely evident. My right hon. opponent, who had sat in this house since 1935, failed to detect it; indeed, when he issued his manifesto, and I say this with great respect for one for whom I have the greatest regard as a public servant, he said he would like to return to Ottawa to witness the completion of the South Saskatchewan river dam. He, having toyed with this great development for 20 years, prompted some of my speakers to suggest that the dam was not going to be built in Ottawa and that if he wanted to witness the completion of the dam then the best place for him to view the results was right from his lofty perch in Saskatchewan. I presume that my right hon. friend the former minister of agriculture -sometimes also referred to as the minister of elections-will have a good view of the work in connection with this mammoth project, the completion of which we believe will add greatly to the wealth and resources of my province.
The constituency of Melville, which I have the honour to represent, is made up of the best Canadians. I am proud to represent them here and, while I want to play my full part, I am sure I will not be misunderstood if I appear to keep the needs of Melville constantly before me and in particular the problems of western farmers.
The Address-Mr. Skoreyko (Translation):
Mr. Speaker, I feel my speech would remain incomplete if I did not now say a few words in French. This is something which had never been done by previous members for Melville. As for me, I should like in this way to express appreciation for the co-operation I have received from the French-speaking people who live in the valley of Qu'Appelle. It is a very modest way of paying them homage.
Indeed, we owe a debt of gratitude to the members of the first communities in western Canada. I refer to that unquestionably inspired and altogether unselfish work performed by the priests of the Catholic church and especially by the Oblate fathers. They were the first to realize the importance of educating the Indians and the Metis, and for that purpose they built the first school. Today, more than 70 years later, there stands in the village of Lebret one of the most beautiful academic institutions in Canada. It is devoted to the educational needs of the Indians throughout Saskatchewan; it is a monument to those pioneers who had that vision and who worked to prepare the Indians for their future responsibilities as citizens.
Today the presence of one of our Indians in the senate is a justification of the efforts made by the intrepid promoters of that cause. (Text):
You will understand, Mr. Speaker, that this contribution is more or less complementary. I want to feel my way, so to speak; I want to familiarize myself with procedure and to get acquainted with my fellow members. Certainly I want to pay my compliments to you and to express my respects for your great office. As time goes on I may be able to make a greater contribution but for the moment I will content myself in bringing greetings from the grand constituency of Melville in the province of Saskatchewan to each and every hon. member in this assembly.


Mr. William Skoreyko (Edmonton East):: Mr. Speaker, first of all, as a new member of this house I should like to offer to you my congratulations on your election to the office you now hold.
The aim and purpose of the Conservative government, as I see it, is to provide a fair and equal opportunity for all, regardless of differences in religious and racial backgrounds, or position, and of age. This means that we must remember Canadians are no longer just the descendants of a particular nationality. From the fishing banks of Newfoundland to the shores of Vancouver island, Canada is filled with composite Canadians, a product achieved by taking a dozen or

The Address-Mr. Skoreyko more nationalities and mixing them in a pot steaming with ambition, vigour and vision. This product is a real Canadian, with a nationality of his own; a mixture of those people who in countless numbers have emigrated over the decades from Germany, France, the Ukraine, Poland, Holland, Sweden, China and England, to take up their futures in Canada and to offer their faith and their various abilities towards the building of a great nation. It is the mixture of those nationalities which has made possible the diversified disposition of this country's economy. It is people like these who have made this country of ours a proud nation.
Canada has possibly the greatest potential for prosperity and development of any country in the world. We have here in our country more area, more mineral resources, more power resources and more agricultural resources than even the United States. Only Russia can equal our potentiality, but Russia, with its regimentation, does not have the free enterprise which is the incentive for creative thinking in the development of a nation. What greater challenge could we ask of our country? It is the challenge being offered to Canadians by the Conservative government, a challenge born of vision of what the Canada of tomorrow can and will be if we plan and work at this time to bring it about. It is the vision of a country which dates back to the days of Sir John A. Macdonald, the great architect of confederation, who dreamed of joining the scattered provinces and promoting the development of the west. They scoffed at Sir John's proposals; a railway, they said, from wigwam to wigwam. Sir John's administration had the last laugh in his day, and without his rail line what would have been the development of the western provinces today?
Today the opposition, parroting its 19th century predecessors, jeeringly refer to the Prime Minister's (Mr. Diefenbaker's) vision as being only connecting links from igloo to igloo. The Conservatives will have the last laugh in this project also, for these igloos which we will connect up will some day be the foundations for thriving communities, processing plants and refineries. This is all part of the vision of our government, the opening up of our vast northlands and the utilization of the equally vast natural resources of this area.
If our natural resources,-wherever they may be found, in the Northwest Territories, the western provinces, the Atlantic provinces or in old Ontario and Quebec-are developed with vision and vigour, then the general

level of prosperity for all Canadians will be raised to new and appreciable heights. The development of these resources as part of our Canada first policy must be immediately proceeded with if Canadians of this and the next generations are to reap the rightful benefits from the tremendous treasure chest which is Canada. While precious time has already been wasted under previous government administration, we can with hard work look to the fulfilment in our own time of the dreams of those Canadians of yesterday who laid the foundations of this dominion from sea to sea.
It is a policy that puts Canada first, and it is time we put Canada first in our administration, trade policies and foreign affairs. For years now Canada has been suffering increased losses of Canadian business ownership to the United States. We have been selling outright many of our natural resources to foreign powers whose interests are not always the same as ours. The investment is necessary to our growth, but it can go too far. Increasing control by Americans, or any other nation, in Canadian business can rob us of our economic and even our political independence. We must start now to provide measures to prevent such a collapse of our independence. We must start now to develop Canada for Canadians and by Canadians. We believe that such development cannot be left to domestic or foreign private capital alone, but must be stimulated and encouraged by government action.
Our present plans for a second trans-Canada highway from Winnipeg west to Edmonton and Jasper and through the Yellowhead route would shorten by many miles the distance between points in the northern part of the four western provinces to the west coast. Such a road would also be a very excellent military highway from eastern points to Edmonton which is such an important military centre and the gateway to the north.
I represent the constituency of Edmonton East which I believe is the only entirely urban federal constituency in Alberta. This is the constituency that in the outside world gains importance from the fact that it contains Clarke stadium which our Edmonton Eskimos football team calls home. My constituency contains five meat packing plants that process a big precentage of meats sold in northern Alberta and a great deal which is exported. Edmonton East also contains many other manufacturing plants as well as many of the finest residential communities in the city.
I might comment that the extension of unemployment insurance benefits and the further allocation of funds under the National

Housing Act, passed by this house, is of great importance to the working people of my constituency.
May I conclude by saying for the record that I was elected by my constituents because they felt that I could do a job for them and for Canada as a whole in this government. I will work as hard as I can for the people of Edmonton East and for the unity of this great country so that I may be deserving of the confidence they have placed in me.
(Translation):


Mr. Laurier Regnier (St. Boniface):: Mr. Speaker, this being the first time that I rise to address the house, and as I represent a constituency made up of practically equal parts of French-speaking and English-speaking electors, I shall begin my remarks in my mother tongue.
I first wish to congratulate you, Mr. Speaker, and to tell you how impressed I have been by the way in which you preside over the sittings of this house.
I also congratulate the Deputy Speaker (Mr. Sevigny) and the deputy chairman (Mr. Rea), as well as the mover (Mr. Lafreniere) and the seconder (Mr. Nielsen) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne. (Text):
My first duty, Mr. Speaker, is to thank the electors of the constituency of St. Boniface who have chosen me to represent them and I want to assure them I will do all in my power to prove worthy of their confidence. I pray that I shall never be backward in defending their interests and that I may do so in a most effective manner.
I have listened with a great deal of interest to all the previous speakers, those government members on both sides of the house and members of the opposition who sit on the righthand corner of this chamber. In my opinion all subjects and matters mentioned in the speech from the throne have been adequately covered. There is one subject, however, which while given prominence in the throne speech has not been discussed overmuch and it is that part of the speech from the throne that reads as follows:
My government will continue to make unremitting effort to assist the peaceful solution of international problems and in the accomplishment by patient negotiation of a substantial measure of disarmament.
To me this subject is the most important with which this government can deal. It was touched upon last evening by the hon. member for Greenwood (Mr. Macdonnell) who referred to a speech made by Field Marshal Viscount Montgomery on his recent visit to Canada as reported in the Ottawa Citizen of May 15 under the headline "Montgomery
The Address-Mr. Regnier Feels Canada Should Lead Free Crusade" and I quote from that report:
It seems to me Canada is in a unique position to provide robust world leadership. Your nation cannot be charged with the stigma of colonialism: you're lucky that way. You have a very good amalgam of French and British blood; that's good. It is quite clear to me that the nations of the world are looking to Canada for a lead. That is a fact. I am not saying that to please you. I would like to see Canada develop a foreign policy of its own, not tacked on to someone else, and give that lead.
The reference by the hero of El Alamein to the fact that Canada cannot be charged with the stigma of colonialism brings to my mind the first two letters I received after March 31, one in English and one in French, which I would like to read. The first, in English, dated April 2, 1958, is addressed to myself and reads as follows:
In view of the last elections, I salute you with my felicitations. I also would like to emphasize a subject of great importance which has already been overlooked' much too often and too long.
In my belief a flag is to a country like a cross is to a church. A country can't very well hold its proper place behind its mother's skirt, which some pretend England still is to us. A flag also represents the right to talk more freely in world matters.
I'm sure you know the importance of this matter as do many of us, but have been somehow afraid to insult or hurt England. I respect England very much but I think it is time to leave England like it is time for a 25-year old man to leave his mother to lead his own life. We could stay very close to England just the same.
I leave you with this thought which I know as a good citizen and a good M.P. you won't overlook.
I will not reveal the name of the man who wrote the letter as I do not have the authority to do so. The other letter which bears the same date is in French and deals with approximately the same matter. It reads as follows:
(Translation):
I believe you deserve congratulations on the results of the elections. I hope that the Conservative party will lead Canada on the road to progress and help it attain its rightful place in the world.
I should like to speak to you about a matter which I consider quite important if we want to make Canada a better country. I doubt if there is anybody in this country who, while claiming to be a patriot, is opposed to a distinctive Canadian flag. It is high time for Canada to realize that it is a nation in its own right and not a colony, as many distant countries must think.
This would be no insult to England and Canada could still play a very active role in the commonwealth, as was demonstrated by Asian and African countries which take pride in having their own flag.
With the decisive majority you have in parliament, there should be no great difficulty in undertaking a survey to decide what the majority of people think, in schools, in universities, in the streets.
Sincerely-
(Text):
To my mind, Mr. Speaker, a distinctive flag should be an element of greater unity in

The Address-Mr. Regnier Canada and not one of division. Perhaps the delay in choosing a distinctive flag has been the fear that it might create division. In my humble opinion this country is now ready and anxious to let the world know what has been a fact for a long time, that we have achieved full nationhood. The people of Canada are ready for this. I believe the adoption of a national flag would give us a greater voice in international affairs. A flag is a symbol but it represents the true independence of a nation and the voice of this country cannot carry its full weight unless the fact of our independence becomes universally known.
In the election campaign in my constituency we did not make this an issue, and I do not believe it should be an issue of party politics. It should be something that all parties are more or less unanimous about before we can achieve that aim. I hope that under the leadership of the Prime Minister (Mr. Diefenbaker) we shall attain this final objective.
I have heard in this house many discussions regarding who was entitled to the greatest credit for obtaining Canadian autonomy.
I have heard some speakers say it was Sir Robert Borden who was the first Canadian to sign Canada's name on the Treaty of Versailles. I believe Ernest Lapointe signed in Washington on behalf of Canada a treaty connected with fisheries. I think the honour as to working for Canadian autonomy and the glory is divided pretty well equally between the parties in this house. I believe we should all work as patriots to achieve full nationhood, which is a fact, but we still need a symbol.
Before closing, I should like to bring to the attention of the house the fact that the city of St. Boniface will on June 16 celebrate the fiftieth anniversary of its foundation. I know I do not need to talk about the history of St. Boniface. St. Boniface has played a great roll in the history of Canada. In St. Boniface we have the first church established in the great northwest, the first college and the first school. It is really the cradle of civilization in the west. It is the capital of French culture and the largest French speaking city west of the Ottawa river. I could say a lot more but I do not wish to take up the time of the house. However, I should like to quote a few verses from a poem "The Red River Voy-ageur", by John G. Whittier, who has immortalized the St. Boniface cathedral:
The voyageur smiles as he listens To the sound that grows apace;
Well he knows the vesper ringing Of the bells of St. Boniface.

The bells of the Roman Mission
That call from their turrets twain,
To the boatman on the river
To the hunter on the plain!
(Translation):


Mr. V. F. Dubois (Richmond-Wolfe):: Mr. Speaker, may I be allowed, after so many hon. members, to congratulate you on your re-election to the post of Speaker of the house. I also wish to congratulate the hon. member for Longueuil (Mr. Sevigny) on his appointment to the post of Deputy Speaker and chairman of committees, as well as the hon. member for Spadina (Mr. Rea) who has been elected deputy chairman of committees.
I would also like to avail myself of this opportunity to congratulate the mover (Mr. Lafreniere) and the seconder (Mr. Nielson) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne as well as the hon. member for Lotbiniere (Mr. O'Hurley) and the hon. member for Labelle (Mr. Courtemanche) whom the right hon. minister has been pleased to appoint respectively to the portfolio of National Defence and to the Secretary of State Department at the very outset of this session.
I congratulate them with all my heart. I wish their administration every success and I am assured that they will obtain in this regard the co-operation of all their colleagues in this house.
There is one promise which has already been kept by the Prime Minister. The province of Quebec now has five ministers and has been promised one more.
You may remember, Mr. Speaker, that in 1942, from May 11 to October 7, that is to say for five months, the province of Quebec had only one French-speaking minister to represent it, and that was the Right Hon. Louis St. Laurent. Yet, in 1941, my province had given the federal Liberal government 64 members from Quebec out of a possible total of 65. On the other hand, when the Progressive Conservative party was elected on June 10, 1957, having gained at that time only 9 Quebec Conservative members, the Prime Minister immediately appointed three ministers from the province of Quebec. That is why the electors of the constituency of Rich-mond-Wolfe decided to show the Prime Minister the admiration and consideration they have for him by giving him a Conservative member to represent them in the House of Commons and, accordingly, contributing to the great victory of March 31 last.
Mr. Speaker, if I may, I should now like to outline to the house the situation and the needs of my constituency. My constituency is made up of two main groups of people: workers and farmers. If the city of Sherbrooke is considered as the queen of the eastern townships, the constituency of Rich-

mond-Wolfe is considered as one of the finest parts of the eastern townships area, because of its lakes, its rivers, the St. Francis river running through its whole breadth, its many mountains which delight the visitors, its agriculture which shows that the Canadian is still attached to the soil, and its varied industries which provide jobs, not only for workers of their factories, but also for those who supply those industries.
That is why the workers of my constituency were very happy to learn that unemployment insurance benefits had been extended up to June 28 next.
There we have one way of bringing immediate relief to the unemployed. However, the working class of my riding of Richmond-Wolfe want more than unemployment insurance benefits. They want jobs.
They therefore welcome the amendment to the National Housing Act raising from $400 to $750 million the total amount made available to the Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation in 1958. Construction being the yardstick of a country's activities and prosperity, we hope that this first undertaking will mean jobs for as many workers as possible and that by the end of 1958 more Canadians will own their own home.
However, on behalf of those who will remain unemployed, I ask that some very important public works be carried out in my constituency. The St. Francis river, at flood time, causes considerable damage and even loss of life. I wish to remind my fellow members of the sad events which occurred at Bromptonville in 1948 when the St. Francis river overflowed its banks and swept away more than 10 houses, with some loss of life. Other municipalities, such as Greenlay, and Richmond, suffer heavy damage every year, sometimes more than once in a single year, by overflowing. On behalf of all these municipalities, I draw to the attention of the hon. Minister of Labour (Mr. Starr) and of all the hon. members the need for a retaining wall in strategic places so as to obviate the great dangers of loss of life and damage to property.
Among the public works which could be undertaken to stop unemployment, I could mention the construction of a post office at Bromptonville. It would be a magnificent opportunity to commemorate with the population of that town the centenary of the celebration of the first mass. Impressive ceremonies took place there on Sunday May 25th last.
The Address-Mr. Dubois
While providing that little municipality with a government building and giving jobs to its workers, this would leave another memory which that fine population would not fail to recall on great occasions.
Mr. Speaker, the city of Asbestos is the centre of the Richmond-Wolfe riding. It has the largest asbestos mines in the world. It also has the world's largest mill, capable of processing close to 20,000 tons of ore daily. However the city has special needs of prime importance. Although it has 11,000 inhabitants, it is located five miles from the railway. It is therefore deprived of services essential to its greater development. Besides needing a larger unemployment insurance office, it urgently needs a customs office and a telegraph service which would be very beneficial to the population of that constituency.
Another project which would help alleviate unemployment would be to build an armoury at Asbestos. Sherbrooke, Drummondville, Victoriaville have their armouries, but Asbestos has none. This would therefore be a wonderful opportunity to put the unemployed to work in my constituency. Besides those unemployed young men would be glad to spend their spare time acquiring a training that would stand them in good stead and take their minds off the hard times they are going through.
Still in the public works field, there is the matter of level crossings, most of which afford no security at all to the people of my constituency. In the town of Richmond, alone, there are two very dangerous locations which should be attended to, either by putting up signal lights, or building an overpass.
In Danville there is a CNR viaduct, but this is now obsolete, being too narrow, and it should be rebuilt so as to assure that city of all the required safety on its highway network linking Asbestos to all great highways. In Weedon too, there is a pressing need for civilian protection in the form of warning lights at the level crossing on Main street.
Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Sherbrooke (Mr. Allard) impressively outlined the sad plight of the textile industry, stating its numerous problems and suggesting various means which could improve it both in the eastern townships as elsewhere in Canada. Other hon. members also attempted to speak up and state the case of that industry but nobody as yet has referred to the precarious position of the seamless and full-fashioned hosiery industry.

The Address-Mr. Dubois
There are any number of constituencies in Canada-and I have some in my constituency, more exactly in the town of Richmond- which are bound to disappear completely if the Minister of Trade and Commerce and the government do not take action soon.
At the present time we have imports of full fashioned and seamless hosiery from the United States. When these goods pass through customs, exporters and importers claim valuation on them at rates applying to industrial waste of little value. This hosiery which is neither dyed nor pressed, and not yet prepared for commercial merchandising, escapes the attention of the officers and is assessed as practically worthless merchandise whereas it is in fact first quality merchandise. This is unfair competition for the Canadian full fashioned hose and seamless hose industry. It must moreover be noted that because of this devious process, not only does the Minister of Finance (Mr. Fleming) fail to collect the difference between the extremely low rates involved and a proper valuation, as I have pointed out, but he also fails to collect the 10 per cent excise tax. Industry has gradually slowed down and there is growing unemployment not only in that town but in every other town with a similar industry.
Once the ailment has been diagnosed and is known, appropriate remedies must be applied as soon as possible.
These remedies, Mr. Speaker, I now make so bold as to put before the Minister of Trade and Commerce (Mr. Churchill) so that this full fashioned hose and seamless hose industry may continue its activity as it has in the past.
1.	There should only be a few ports of entry allowed for full fashioned hose and seamless hose so that the Canadian importers of those products may be subjected to rigid controls.
2.	In these customs offices, there should be appointed at least one officer who is an expert judge of full fashioned and seamless hose so that proper valuation may be put on the product and duty may be collected on that correct valuation, plus the 10 per cent excise tax.
Customs tariffs should be modified so as to apply to the weight and not the number of dozens as now indicated on entry bills.
I humbly submit those few suggestions to the attention of the Minister of Trade and Commerce.
[Mr. Dubois.)
Mr. Speaker, the farmers of my riding of Richmond-Wolfe welcome the setting up of a Farm Price Stabilization Board. The farmer now has a brighter outlook on life and now wants to establish his sons on the land, instead of letting them desert the farm and swell the ranks of unemployed in the cities. I shall not labour this point because the hon. member for Bellechasse (Mr. Dorion) has very ably described the benefits the Conservative government has awarded the farmers throughout Canada since it took over on June 10, 1957. There is, however, a point which is peculiar to my riding. The rural population are mainly dairy farmers, and this kind of farming is their principal source of income. They must therefore find a market for their produce. They can, of course sell to dairies, but this is not a sufficient market for all the milk they produce. For this reason they are now asking for a cheese factory not like those formerly operating on every country road and manufacturing a product that did not always comply with existing regulations, but a central cheese factory with modern equipment conforming with the specifications of the Department of Agriculture.
While helping the farmers of my constituency, this would cut down unemployment during the building of this industry and afterwards favour competition with the big companies that exploit the farmers of my constituency.
Since every farmer has a woodlot on his farm, he wants to work it, but expects a reasonable return. Accordingly, farmers of my constituency have urged me to ask the house and the price stabilization board to set a price in advance for the next cutting season of pulpwood. I therefore submit their request to the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Harkness) so that all farmers, not only of my constituency but throughout the district, may benefit from a fair and reasonable price.
I should now like, Mr. Speaker, to move beyond the limits of my constituency and consider all Canadians of my country. I would like to deal with the question of obscene literature. On Saturday, May 17 last, before a meeting of the Quebec union of municipalities, in Hull, the Minister of Justice (Mr. Fulton) made a speech which indicated that he intends to put an end to this wave of immorality sweeping over all Canada. It is a highly deplorable situation which prevents civic authorities from doing what they would like to punish those who spread

or publish this trash. The Minister of Justice is aware of the danger this represents, as shown by his words as reported by the newspaper La Presse:
The problem, as I understand it, concerns mainly the youth of our country. I am very much afraid that, if we let this flow of degrading and salacious literature be sold openly on newsstands, without any hindrance we risk losing a whole generation.
To show his great determination to correct that evil and to give support and encouragement to all those who fight against that obscene literature, he added:
We are also considering whether the criminal code should not be amended to include a summary procedure such as now obtains in Great Britain and under which a newsdealer may be summoned to show cause why an order of the court providing for the destruction of the alleged obscene publication found in his premises should not be executed.
Mr. Speaker, I hope that the Minister of Justice will have every possibility to give the Canadian people a clear and accurate definition of the word "obscenity''. I also congratulate him on a very important and magnificent speech.
Mr. Speaker, last fall the hon. Minister of National Health and Welfare (Mr. Monteith) increased some social security benefits, such as the pensions for the aged, the needy, the blind and war veterans. This was most welcome by these people who thereby were given a new lease on life, after years of destitution due to the high cost of living. It took a Conservative government to realize this deplorable situation and to put an end to it.
However, would it not be possible now to increase family allowances to the highest possible level so as to give parents an opportunity to provide their children with the necessities of life? Moreover, if family allowances were extended to age 18 for children still attending school, parents would be in a position to give their children a much more complete education. However the allowances should be geared to the cost of living and be raised to a level which would allow parents to fulfil their great responsibilities when children decide to seek higher education. A sound distribution in this field would certainly help develop talents and give Canada the skilled people we need.
On Monday May 20, I heard the hon. member for Beauce (Mr. Racine) speak about a national flag. He must be unaware that the Liberal party never wanted to give the Canadian people a distinctive national flag. The Liberals were in office for 22 years and in that time received thousands of petitions, requests and resolutions asking for a distinctive national flag; yet they never found a way to provide the Canadian people with
57071-3-41i
The Address-Mr. Kindt such a flag. However, another government, which has only been in power since June 10, 1957, recognizing that Canada is made up of two great races, that there are also two official languages, French and English, recognized by the constitution of 1867 took action and immediately recognized bilingualism in the parliamentary restaurant. Moreover, as outlined in the speech from the throne, it is going to introduce a measure providing for the installation of a system of simultaneous translation of the debates. Such positive action is but a hint of what can be expected from the Conservative government that will provide Canada and the whole Canadian people with a distinctive national flag.
Mr. Speaker, in concluding the first speech I have the honour to deliver in the House of Commons, it is my pleasure to express to every hon. member the appreciation and congratulations of all the electors of my riding. I thank them for the mark of confidence they gave me on the day of my victory. They can rest assured that with a Conservative government and a leader such as the right hon. Prime Minister, Canada will grow, prosperity will come back, and the national unity so well advocated by the right hon. Prime Minister will make Canada the greatest country in the eyes of all the peoples of the world.
(Text):


Mr. Lawrence E. Kindt (Macleod):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to offer my congratulations to you on your re-election as Speaker of this house. I should like also to congratulate the Deputy Speaker and deputy chairman on their election to posts of trust and responsibility. Following the precedent set by those who have preceded me in this debate, I should like to commend the mover (Mr. Lafreniere) and seconder (Mr. Neilsen) for their contribution to this throne speech debate.
I have the honour of representing the Macleod riding in this house. This constituency sent its first representative to the House of Commons in 1908, just 50 years ago, and that representative was a Conservative, Mr. John Herron. I mention this to indicate that my constituency is fundamentally Progressive Conservative because it started out that way.
I hasten to say, however, that out of the past 37 years the constituency has been represented for 14 years by a farmer representative and during the last 23 years by a Social

The Address-Mr. Kindt Credit representative, the Rev. E. G. Hansell. On March 31 the people of the Macleod riding reverted to their former tradition and elected me a Progressive Conservative to this House of Commons with the largest majority that has ever been given a member for that riding.
I am grateful to the people of the Macleod constituency for having elected me as their representative. I should say, in addition, that they felt it was time to return to the two-party system. I appreciate the support I received from people in all walks of life.
It is the custom in this house to say a few words about one's constituency, and particularly the problems which confront the people there. It is necessary to do this on a regional basis and to delineate the different areas in order to bring out particular problems. For instance, there is the Crowsnest area, a region which is familiar to most people in this house. There we have the tremendous coal deposits and coal mines which are experiencing some trouble in finding markets. As a result of the competition from oil, gas and electricity, as well as other competing sources of energy, the demand for coal has gone down so that the mines are finding it extremely difficult to obtain sufficient orders to enable them to remain in existence. As a matter of fact, last week the mine at Bellevue in Alberta was closed, putting approximately 150 people out of employment. I must say how sorry I am, and I am sure I speak on behalf of the government, to see this particular mine closed. I hope that some measures can be taken which will alleviate the hardships these miners are facing as a result of the closing of this mine.
I want to compliment the government on the efforts which they have made to try to find a market for coal. Last July an order in council was passed opening the Japanese market for coal. We had hoped that this step might help with respect to demand for coal in western Canada. I can say that some 50,000 tons of coal were shipped last fall to Japan from Canmore and
2,000	tons were shipped from Coleman. That was a big help. Since then another 50,000 tons are on order from Canmore and 1,000 tons from Coleman. But coal orders are dependent upon the demand from the Japanese. If the steel industries of Japan are in trouble we cannot expect coal orders which will be of a continuing nature or at least of such regularity that the coal miners of Alberta can depend on them as their chief

market for their coal. In other words, despite all that the government has done in the way of subventions it looks as though we are in trouble in the west in so far as the coal mining industry is concerned. Anything which this government can do will, I am sure, be greatly appreciated by those people engaged in the coal mining industry in the west.


Mr, Winch:: Does the hon. member bum coal in his home furnace?


Lawrence Elliott Kindt: I have in time past, sir.


Mr. Winch:: Does he burn coal now?


Lawrence Elliott Kindt: I do, sir on my farm.


Harold Edward Winch: I do also.


Lawrence Elliott Kindt: In answer to the hon. member,
I might add that throughout the west where-ever natural gas is available and wherever oil is available, which is in most parts, there is a tremendous shift from coal to natural gas or oil. With the dieselization of the railroads, I have been told that the C.P.R. will discontinue buying coal from the Crowsnest pass within the next year or so.


Harold Edward Winch: I asked that question because my hon. friend is from Macleod. He was talking about coal. I appreciate the fact that he burns coal because I myself do so and it is Macleod coal that I burn.


Lawrence Elliott Kindt: I am glad to hear that. Turning to other problems of the Macleod constituency, may I say that we have there the Turner valley oil and natural gas area. As you know, that was among the first oil and natural gas fields to be discovered in western Canada. We also have the Flat Top mountain and Savana creek area and the Fincher creek field from which natural gas will be flowing to the homes of Ontario in the not too distant future when the trans-Canada pipe line has been completed.
These tremendous sources of energy-I refer to coal, natural gas, oil, hydro electric and others-raise serious problems which the people of western Canada are anxious to have solved. The solution of these problems rests with the execution of a national development policy which will help in their development. One of the big problems of the oil industry and the natural gas industry is that of finding markets. As you know, when natural gas comes from the ground, only about 10 per cent of the total production, is dry methane gas. That is the kind of gas which is put through the mains. The other 90 per cent is wet gas. It is necessary to scrub this gas and separate the methane, ethane, propane,

butane and sulphur dioxide, all of which aside from methane are byproducts which must find a market. That consideration brings up the question of the establishment and economic development of means for the utilization of these byproducts. By that I mean the development of petrochemical industries throughout western Canada to utilize these natural resources. As you may know, some
10,000	products are produced from these petrochemical industries, and those products are all capable of being produced from the source of the hydrocarbons which are available in the Macleod riding.
I come now to one other large industry which flourishes in the Macleod riding. I would be remiss, if I did not call your attention to the cattle ranching industry. Along the foothills area east of the Rocky mountains the cattle ranching industry of western Canada is largely located. I should say that roughly 75 per cent of the big cattle outfits of western Canada are located in that region. For instance, there is the Bar-U ranch which was started many years ago by George Lane; there is also the Prince of Wales ranch and many others. I should like to pay my compliments to the government on behalf of the stockmen of western Canada for their policies in keeping the United States market open and available to Canadian cattle. It has been greatly appreciated by producers and feeders. May I add that they would desire that, in so far as possible, this government pursue policies whereby they may have the advantage of that United States market.
Turning to grain farming, as you proceed east from the foothills area of the Rocky mountains you get into a relatively level area extending for well over 100 miles in the Macleod riding where wheat is the predominant crop. When we come to consider economic cycles with respect to wheat and farming, may I say that the farm cycle turned down in 1951. It has been down for seven years. This cycle is different from the general cycle. Hence wheat farmers in my constituency have been in difficulties for the past four or five years. May I say that they are anxious that, whatever is done in the way of programs which affect their industry, those programs may have at the centre the question of price. In other words, the farmer is out there to make money. He is interested in price. He is of course also interested in his farm as a way of life. He would like to see a well-rounded co-ordinated program that includes price stabilization, conservation, adequate farm credit, et cetera, which will give to him his fair share of the national income. I shall have more to say on this subject when the estimates are under discussion.
The Address-Mr. Taylor
In conclusion, may 1 say that with the natural resources available in southern Alberta, and particularly in the Macleod riding, we need have no fear of the future and we may look with assurance to a tremendous development in the Macleod riding in the years that lie ahead.


Mr. J. R. Taylor (Vancouver-Burrard):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to have the privilege of adding my name to the long list of those who have spoken before me in paying tribute to Your Honour on the occasion of your re-election as Speaker of the House of Commons and to comment upon the significance of the fact that your re-election to this office was made unanimous by a group of opposition members who experienced such impartial, unbiased and fair treatment from Your Honour during the twenty-third parliament of this country.
Those of us who are on the Conservative side of the house are here today in such large numbers for a variety of reasons and I do not for one moment intend to attempt to exhaust all those reasons. We are here today firstly because we serve our country in the fold of the Conservative party under the leadership of an inspired and dedicated Canadian, under the leadership of a Prime Minister (Mr. Diefenbaker) whose background in his profession and also as a parliamentarian has been dedicated to the rights, under the law, of the ordinary people of this country. We are here today because of a record of accomplishment and of promises fulfilled which has not been equalled in so short a time in the history of Canada. We can boast of that record since June 10 last.
I believe we are here also because of the aggressive steps taken by our government to solve the unemployment problem facing us. I have in mind such measures as the bringing forward of immense public works expenditures, the extension of seasonal benefits, the stimulating of housing and other construction and the embarking upon large development programs in the north. Surely had these not been undertaken our economy would not today be showing the buoyancy which is once again becoming evident.
I notice that the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration (Mrs. Fairclough) is in the chamber and I would like to congratulate her upon her appointment to such an important post in the government. We have heard many wonderful things said of the minister and I know that in the future we will hear many more.
I would like at this point to congratulate the rookies of the house including the 100 brand new Tories, many of whom have added so much to this debate. By now the

The Address-Mr. Taylor newcomers will have found, and rightly so, that the work of a member of parliament is not glamorous, it is just hard slugging and some no doubt are a little nostalgic and homesick. Perhaps this is why my colleague the hon. member for Burnaby-Richmond (Mr. Drysdale) suggested that the house continue its debates this summer in British Columbia. The Ottawa Citizen seemed a little shocked about this suggestion but this outstanding newspaper should not be so moved-everything is going west these days. The nation just recently went west-


John Whitney Pickersgill: Especially the government.


Lionel Chevrier: And the funds.


John Russell Taylor: -to pick a Prime Minister. Royalty this summer goes west and that is also where you will find the team seeking the grey cup. Mr. Speaker, going west would be nothing new to you, sir, as you were born and raised there. If parliament cannot be transplanted to the west then of course a sincere welcome is extended to all hon. members to visit the great province of British Columbia this summer. The visitors will find that a physical revolution is taking place; new industrial cities like Kitimat have sprung up; oil and gas have transformed the quiet farms behind the mountains to the east; surveyors are swarming through the great Rocky mountain trench; to the south the railway builders and the road builders are stitching the province together.
Hon. members who visit British Columbia will also find that it is still that part of Canada where nothing is done by halves, where in every field-in politics and art, in climate and geography and in ethnic make-up -the pendulum swings abruptly and unpredictably from one extreme to the other. It is the all or nothing province, the Texas and at the same time the California of Canada.
I would fail my constituents if I did not take this opportunity to particularly invite to British Columbia this summer the hon. members on the treasury benches. It is so important to me and to my constituents that they grasp the compelling issues in British Columbia. This province, for instance, has the largest percentage of old people in Canada, and also the largest percentage of young married couples; it has the most marriages per capita and the most divorces; the most advanced prison system and the most crime; some of the best social services and some of the worst delinquency; there are proportionately more newcomers in British Columbia than in any other province and, unfortunately, more drug addicts. It is the fastest growing province in Canada and in places it is also the emptiest. This is my

province and it becomes a challenge to this august body to give it good government.
During the centennial year in British Columbia, Vancouver will be the centre of many great attractions. Hon. members who visit Vancouver will find it the most exciting city in Canada from a cultural point of view; it has the potential of becoming one of the most beautiful cities on this continent.
While on this subject I would like on behalf of my constituents to suggest to the Minister of National Defence (Mr. Pearkes) that he give early consideration to the removal of the air force station near the Bur-rard bridge in Vancouver. This area, if transferred to a park, will add greatly to Vancouver's natural beauty. For close to 60 years the town planners and the citizens of Vancouver have dedicated this area for a park, and I am satisfied that had it not been for the war the citizens of Vancouver would now be enjoying this area as a park. I do hope the minister will give careful consideration to the Vancouver city council resolution of, I believe, October 6, 1941-passed during the war-which recorded the terms under which the air force entered this property. The war being over there is, I feel, an obligation upon this organization to move elsewhere. The recovery of this property for park purposes is as important to the city of Vancouver as was the Louisiana purchase to the United States.
May I turn now to another subject. The hon. member for Parkdale (Mr. Maloney) in his brilliant address recently spoke of ethnic groups and of the many people who had immigrated to this country. Since the war we have received over 1| million immigrants- this is a large number-and each immigrant was accepted after having complied with the procedure laid down under the Immigration Act. It is this part of the problem which interests me most-the practice and procedure under the Immigration Act. In the movement of so many people to Canada many become bedevilled by red tape and bureaucratic snags; our immigration laws and regulations cannot, under the best of circumstances, cover all potentialities, but there is strong indication that there is much room for improvement of a large part of them in order to minimize the suffering of people who decide to come to Canada.
Years ago in Canada and in the United States the immigration policy was just a question of come one, come all. It was merely a case of moving people physically from one country to another, from say Europe to Canada.

If the immigrant was breathing upon arrival at the Canadian port he was admitted. The statue of Liberty outside New York recalls the policy of the United States in that era. Inscribed on the statue are these words:
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
During the passage of years the immigration policy of the two countries changed. New acts were drafted, new regulations formulated and new and complicated procedures adopted. It is these procedures and regulations which must now be considered. Skilled legal talent has difficulty understanding the procedural mysteries of the immigration department. Even with the best administrative radar equipment it is difficult to tell who is admissible to this country and who is not. Under the leadership of the American Bar Association the United States government amended its immigration act, its regulations and the administration thereof. The United States practitioner can now find his immigration law in legal directories such as:
"I. and N. Dec." (Administrative decisions under immigration and nationality laws of the United States); Interim Decisions, (Decisions of Board of Immigration Appeals and Central Office prior to publication in "I. and N. Dec."); "L.ed.", (Lawyers' Edition, Supreme Court Decisions) and "Op. Atty. Gen.", (Opinions of the Attorney General).
In Canada there are no such guides. Immigration cases are not reported in any journal so that no healthy body of law can be found other than the act itself. With no reporting service, there is a lack of uniformity. On the other hand, Hal Banks, with a lengthy record, is admitted to Canada while other Americans are deported with a most nominal record. Distressed immigrants or their Canadian applicants find themselves in a contest which has clearly become a struggle against bureaucracy, or to use a modern term "ministerial discretion".
With the advent of the revised act in 1953 many hoped that the evils of uncertainty and the rigid ministerial control which for so many years had plagued the field of immigration would be mitigated. Provision was made for an immigration appeal board. The sections of the old act were rearranged, additional definitions were added and the result appeared to be a better example of legislation. Unfortunately, little of substance was altered and the act together with its regulations remains as one of the saddest statutes in force today. Frustration, bewilderment and confusion have become the common lot of the person engaged in this departmental work. The administration of the act has been carried on in an atmosphere of secrecy which
The Address-Mr. Taylor has provoked sharp criticism from the bench and bar, from the press and from the general public alike.
For a generation now persons having immigration problems have approached the minister. Often these people are represented by members of the House of Commons and too often the cases are disposed of after some informal and sometimes injudicious hearing tinged, I suspect, with partisan feelings. There is no arrangement for a formal hearing. A way must be found to eliminate personal appeals to the minister at least until all remedies under the act have been exhausted. An applicant for admission either qualifies under the act or does not. An applicant should be able to test his admissibility under a proper administrative setup. If he does not qualify he is excluded, and if he does qualify he should be admitted. If there are persons who have been excluded but whose cases involve unusual and compelling circumstances, then a private bill should be applied for. In applying for a private bill all members of the house would know who was applying and what were the special circumstances.


John Whitney Pickersgill: We would certainly have a lawyers' paradise.


John Russell Taylor: Canadians in growing numbers will continue to condemn a policy of administration based on secrecy, refusal of reason, lack of proper tribunals to provide a full and fair hearing and the absence of any appeal procedure. It is obvious that a paternalistic promise to carefully review the application in the light of these submissions is far different from an open hearing before an appeal tribunal pledged to give full reasons for its decision.
There is a complete paucity of rules and regulations governing the admission procedure of dependants of Canadian citizens. As dependants are actually testing their admissibility there must be a hearing and if there is to be a hearing it must be a fair one. If there is a hearing there is no reason why it cannot be in the presence of counsel and, unless security is in issue, there is no reason why the department cannot make available a transcript of the hearing and in due course report its decision in some journal whereby those concerned with immigration law can look to some body of law for precedents. A fair hearing and reported decisions will revolutionize the present procedure.
Canada's immigration policy under the previous Liberal administration was based on the carefully worded statement:
It is not a fundamental human right of an alien to enter Canada. It is a privilege. It is a matter of domestic policy.

The Address-Mr. Taylor
I do not necessarily disagree with this statement but I could find no statement of the previous administration as to rights or privileges of Canadians who apply for immigrants whether they be dependants, relatives or friends. It is now necessary that parliament give consideration to this aspect of the problem. The Canadian Bar Association has already studied and made recommendations in this regard. If we adopt those recommendations many of the irritating and perplexing vexations that face Canadians having immigration problems will be solved.
I have in my desk a picture taken some time ago showing British immigrants lining up by the hundreds around the Canadian immigration office in London.


John Whitney Pickersgill: It does not happen any more.


John Russell Taylor: That is not a comforting scene from a procedural point of view. I would like to recommend that a system and service be designed so that such immigrants would not be obliged or allowed to line up in that manner. I would also suggest that if an air bridge to Canada is to be set up again Canadian carriers be used.
The facts surrounding the Heikkila case are well known to many in Canada and to people of many other countries. Because of the treatment afforded Heikkila in Vancouver, Canada has suffered. The case smacks of the gestapo, the thumb screw and the rack. The main purpose of giving further consideration to this case is to ensure that it does not happen again.
The Heikkila case was primarily an immigration matter and it remained so until he departed from this country. It is hardly good enough for our immigration service to say to the United States escort, "We will not look after him; do what you wish with him". In this case he was taken to the police station. However, the officer could well have taken Heikkila to a local hotel and chained him to the bed. One can imagine all sorts of things happening in the event that the immigration department does not take charge of these cases.
In due course Heikkila may once again find himself in Canada. The Vancouver city officials have decided that no longer will the city jail be available to deportees. I suggest that this time he be kept in the immigration quarters at the expense of the United States government. If goods are imported into Canada, the customs department takes charge of the goods until the duty is paid or the goods vacate Canada. That department does not turn over the goods to another agency. The same principle should follow in immigration matters.

When I last spoke in this chamber I referred to a most pleasant visit to the grand province of Quebec. During the last weekend I made another visit there. My first visit to Quebec was mainly to see Maurice Richard play hockey. The last trip was to see a person in custody and now under order of deportation to Italy. I made my way to the immigration clearing centre on St. Antoine street from the beautiful new Queen Elizabeth hotel. I passed a number of fine buildings, a lovely park, fine trees and finally arrived at the immigration building which lies in the shade and gloom of the built-up marshalling yards of the Windsor station. The area, like the immigration building, is most depressive. A run-down night club and a gambling joint are close by. I have often thought that the immigration building in Vancouver was very deplorable, but it is good compared with the situation in Montreal. I would like hon. members to know that the Vancouver building is situated, as far as the eye can detect, in the freight yards of the Canadian Pacific railway. Freight trains are ever present; they shunt by day and by night. Yet this building, like the one in Montreal, incarcerates persons anywhere from a day to many months. Both buildings lack the facilities of even a third rate hotel. Here is where some of the immigrants get their first experience of Canada. The visitor to the Montreal building will see 20 persons in one room, huddled in double deck beds, where by normal standards four persons ought to be. In Montreal, as in Vancouver, immigration administration has been reduced to a third-class operation, taking its place far down the list from civic squares, city halls, express ways and clover-leafs.
I suggest, that we can do better than this, and I hope the new administration will, after it has caught its breath, give consideration to this situation. I believe we should now raise our sights and plan our immigration collection centres nearer to airports than railway stations, nearer to the country than the city, nearer to fresh air and peace and quiet than the hubbub of the city.
I believe also that Canada should encourage a stowaway law such as has been formulated in the Baltic countries. Under the proposed convention, shipowners of ratifying states would be enabled to land stowaways at the first suitable port of another ratifying state. The authorities there would return the stowaway to the state whose nationality he claimed.
In conclusion, I would like to commend the loyal and hardworking personnel of the Department of Citizenship and Immigration.

They do desire to co-operate and have shown a willingness to be of service. If, of course, the rules and regulations are changed by the new administration, then I feel that they will have the opportunity of giving that type of service that they are often prevented from giving, not so much of their own volition but by the operation of the present rules and regulations. I have come to know many fine officers in the department, men of remarkable stature. Mr. A. L. Jolliffe, now retired would be in that class, but there are others who are also now serving. In passing I would like to pay tribute to my father, who like the rest, made a mistake here or there, but wherever possible emphasized the humanities ahead of the regulations.
(Translation):


Mr. Roger Parizeau (Lake St. John):: Mr. Speaker, it is with great apprehension and yet with great pride that I rise in this house for the first time to speak on behalf of all the electors of the beautiful constituency of Lake St. John.
Allow me, Mr. Speaker, to join all previous speakers in offering you my warmest and most sincere congratulations for the mark of confidence which the members of this house gave you by electing you as their Speaker. I wish also to congratulate the hon. members for Longueuil (Mr. Sevigny) and for Spadina (Mr. Rea) upon their appointment. I would feel remiss if I did not pay tribute to the government for his happy decision in choosing the hon. member for Quebec-Montmorency (Mr. Lafreniere) and for Yukon (Mr. Nielsen) to move the address in reply to the speech from the throne.
Mr. Speaker, the constituency of Lake St. John is mostly a farming community, with a fair number of industrial workers. The farmers and the workers of my riding, proud of the efficiency of the 23rd parliament, made a point of showing their gratitude by electing a Conservative member for the second time since confederation.
Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the farmer, that fine member of society, I congratulate the government and the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Harkness), for that farm price stabilization act. A good farmer of my riding told me the other day: "At last, here is legislation which enables us, farmers, to know in advance, just as every other class of our society, what our annual income is going to be."
That legislation will also enable the farmer's son to stay on the ancestral farm and make a decent living. Well, there is one piece of legislation at least which will solve in part 57071-3-42
The Address-Mr. Parizeau the unemployment brought about by our opponents. We know, of course, that in the past many of our farmers had to go out to the towns and lumber camps to eke out a living.
Mr. Speaker, we know that there is no other industry in this country to match agriculture. If we want to ensure greater prosperity for that industry, we should give more assistance to our farmers. I will explain what I mean. In many cases when a farmer cannot work his farm unassisted, he hires help at seeding or harvest time. The trouble is that erstwhile farm hands are turning away from this work because they are not eligible for unemployment insurance over the winter. I would therefore suggest that the government consider including this class of worker among those entitled to unemployment insurance benefits. Mr. Speaker, another way to help our farmers and our fine Canadian families would be to provide for a substantial increase in family allowances. I will even go so far as to suggest that these be doubled. We know, of course, that the Canadian farmer is proud of his large family.
Mr. Speaker, I congratulate the government on having provided considerable amounts for housing. This is bound to cut down unemployment and help solve the housing problem. However, on behalf of workers, not only in my constituency but throughout Canada, I ask the Prime Minister (Mr. Diefenbaker) and the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Green) to make such improvements as appear possible to the National Housing Act, either by reducing interest rates or by adopting the system already in force in some provinces and which consists in paying part of the interest rate paid by the borrower. Most Canadian wage earners earn between $2,800 and $4,000 a year. It is quite obvious that they cannot be expected to borrow $10,000 or $12,000 and pay capital and interest charges at the rate of $75 or $80 per month, in addition to municipal and school taxes.
The municipalities are faced with a problem as the result of the federal government's great generosity in providing large amounts for housing.
Most municipalities are not prepared for such rapid development. Indeed, most of them are faced with acute planning problems. At the present time they are expanding in a haphazard way, with the result that after a while we will have ill-planned communities. It will then be too late to make things right. That is why I urge the government to pay grants representing half the costs to cities,

The Address-Mr. Parizeau towns or villages who wish to introduce zoning, building and master plans. Construction could then proceed according to proper townplanning standards, and there would be more residential construction in our small municipalities.
We all know that the 24th parliament proposes to launch large public works to relieve seasonal unemployment, and I commend the government for it but I do not believe that large public works of this kind would solve the problem in all parts of the country because several of our constituencies have no harbours, airports, and so on. This means that public works under the federal jurisdiction could not be carried out in all constituencies.
Here is what I would suggest on behalf of rural municipalities: the government could help those municipalities indirectly by voting sums of money for works to be done in those municipalities, specifying the type of works that would be approved, and granting the subsidies on a pro rata basis. The government could also approve certain public works planned for municipalities and assume the cost of labour. The system of payment could be administered by the unemployment insurance office. It means that the municipalities would pay the cost of the materials for those specific projects-and I have in mind sewer and water works-and the federal government would agree to pay for labour in granting the necessary funds to the unemployment insurance offices, on the basis of prevailing salary rates in each zone.
To alleviate seasonal unemployment the government should undertake its public works in the fall and carry them out through the winter so as to absorb the available labour force. I would also ask the government to press the Canadian National Railways authorities to rebuild-and I do mean rebuild- the Quebec-Lake St. John railway. If Mr. Gordon, chairman of the Canadian National would only take a few trips to the Lake St. John district, he would be the first one to demand its immediate restoration.
(Text):
I should like to make it known to all members from the other provinces, that we from Quebec are proud to be known as French but are also very proud to be known as Canadians. Certain opposition members try to make the rest of the country believe that we are divided. In this they are sadly mistaken. Others are trying to convince the


public that we from Quebec are here only to promote our provincial interests, but I would suggest that we are here to work with our colleagues from every part of Canada in the interests of national unity.
Some others have been blaming the defeat of the Liberal party on the premier of Quebec but I would say their defeat came from the people of Quebec and from all other parts of Canada because for the last ten years the Liberal party has been sleeping in the House of Commons and has never paid any attention to the needs of the Canadian people. I should like to remind the hon. member for St. Jean-Iberville-Napierville (Mr. Dupuis) that past Conservative governments have given more to our country than he may realize. As we all know, it was the Macdonald and Cartier government which gave us the Constitutional Act in 1867 and it was another Conservative government which in 1931 gave us the statute of Westminster. To keep alive the spirit of Canadian tradition I hope that the present government will give us a distinctive Canadian flag.
(Translation):
Mr. Speaker, I would like to conclude these brief remarks by thanking all the voters of my riding for expressing their confidence in me at the last election.
During the election campaign, I promised only one thing: to let the voice of the riding of Lake St. John be heard in this house and to fulfil my mission as a member of parliament.
Having served Canada for six years in the armed forces, in Canada and overseas, I thought it was my duty to serve my country again as a member of parliament, and you may be assured, Mr. Speaker, that I will do so to the best of my knowledge, while serving the interests of my riding, of my province and of my country.
(Text):


Mr. R. R. Southam (Moose Mountain):: Mr. Speaker, man is subject to the influences of environment and as I rise to speak in the debate on the address in reply to the speech from the throne this is a moment that I will long remember. I can assure you that I share the same reactions of nervousness, timidity and humbleness that no doubt many of my predecessors have felt in rising to address the House of Commons for the first time.
Before I continue, Mr. Speaker, allow me to add my congratulations to you, the Deputy Speaker and the deputy chairman of committees. I am quite certain that the high responsibilities you have been called upon to perform will be carried out in the highest

traditions of this house. I would like also to add my congratulations to my friends, the hon. member for Quebec-Montmorency (Mr. Lafreniere) and the hon. member for the Yukon (Mr. Nielsen), who so capably moved and seconded the address in reply to the speech from the throne.
I might say in passing that the principles envisioned by the speaker from the Yukon outline something that is very near and dear to the hearts of the people of Saskatchewan. As you know, for years we have been more or less depending on bread alone but with the development of our great northland I feel we will not remain in the category of hewers of wood and drawers of water. I see the Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources (Mr. Hamilton) on the other side of the house and I can assure him on behalf of myself and my colleagues that we will be solidly behind him in the pursuit of his duties along this line.
For a few moments, I would like to say something about the great constituency of Moose Mountain which I have the honour to represent in the house. When I use the word "great" in referring to my constituency it means that I have always thought a great deal of that area of Canada because I was born there and because of the fine people who reside there, but since March 31 I am even more appreciative because on that day I was elected to represent Moose Mountain as the first Conservative member of parliament since confederation. I can assure you that if I have my way, and with the aid of the good government policies being laid down by the Prime Minister (Mr. Diefenbaker) and his many colleagues in the next few months, I will not, I hope, be the last Conservative elected from Moose Mountain.
Geographically my constituency is located in the extreme southeast corner of Saskatchewan and is one of three long rectangular shaped constituencies whose area stretches the whole breadth of Saskatchewan. Its southern boundary commences in the southeast corner of Saskatchewan and follows the United States border due west approximately 110 miles, then goes due north about 60 miles, then directly east again for 110 miles and then due south along the Manitoba boundary to the starting point. Within its boundaries is a population of 45,000 people living on farms, in 79 towns, villages, and hamlets, and one city, Estevan, our largest urban centre of 8,000 people.
Basically agriculture is our chief industry but we also have a large soft or lignite coal mining industry situated at Bienfait and Estevan which provides employment for several thousand people. This coal area is one 57071-3-42J
The Address-Mr. Southam of the largest in western Canada. There has been a change over the past few years from deep seam mining to surface mining and recently it has been a very interesting sight to see some of the largest dragline shovels on the North American continent biting out great gobs of coal weighing up to 25 tons, the clay having first been taken off the surface and piled up in huge mounds. This available source of coal provides cheap fuel for a large part of Saskatchewan and is shipped as far east as Winnipeg, Manitoba, where large quantities are used, especially in the stoker size.
Another fast developing and important industry is oil. Large and valuable finds have recently been made in this part of Saskatchewan and development in a number of areas has recently taken place. Estevan is the centre of activity of the oil business but many other and lucrative fields include Good-water, Midale, Frobisher, Oxbow, Alida, Carnduff and Nottingham. To cite an example of one small area, Steelman at the present time has well over 300 producing wells. Unfortunately for the individual, most of the oil rights are held by the crown. However, quite a few early settlers or their descendants, especially in the eastern part of Moose Mountain, held their mineral rights and in some cases where they did not dispose of them or lease too early they have greatly enhanced their economy through the recent development that has taken place there.
The Saskatchewan Power Corporation is presently building a $40 million power development project known as the Boundary dam, four miles south of Estevan. This plant, designed on the steam turbo basis, will utilize about 100,000 tons of soft coal per year and the resulting power production will not only be a great asset to Saskatchewan in the near future but could quite conceivably lead to a chemical industry being established in that area because of the ready availability of oil and gas by-products.
In so far as our farm economy is concerned, it is mostly on a mixed farming basis with considerable wasteland being utilized by some fine cattle herds and a number of hogs being raised. There has been a trend away from dairy herds during the past few years, but the recent decline in farm income has caused people to again take a look at this side of the farm prospects. Wheat is by far the largest grain product, with flax, oats and barley being extensively grown, as well as some corn and grass seed. Poultry has been in low production, but recently a few farmers have established large turkey flocks which have proven to be a reasonably good addition to their economy.

The Address-Mr. Southam
In considering the general economic situation of the western farmer I should like to say that the farmers in my constituency were pleased to learn of the Conservative government's awareness of their problems last fall when they immediately set about introducing legislation making available interest-free cash advances on farm-stored grain. Although this was not a cure-all by any means, it did make some ready cash available when it was needed most.
The most far-reaching, positive, and practical piece of farm legislation ever passed was Bill No. 237, the price stabilization act. I should like to take this opportunity of congratulating the Prime Minister (Mr. Diefenbaker), the members of his cabinet and the advisory board upon this magnificent achievement. Despite the sometimes slanderous and derogatory remarks, as well as the stiff opposition put up for purely selfish political motives by one of the small opposition groups, the bill was passed and I think the electors' reaction to this legislation was clearly demonstrated on March 31.
I was very happy the other morning to hear the Minister of Trade and Commerce (Mr. Churchill) say, in answer to a question, that the government was seriously considering the question of deficiency payments on western grain. Regardless of how effective the farm stabilization act may be, it still does not cover the western producer's basic commodity, wheat. A recent study made by the Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba wheat pools, a group that handles the biggest share of western grain, has brought to light some very practical figures which clearly show the need for some additional assistance. I should like your indulgence, Mr. Speaker, to read into the record the details of the case put up by the western wheat pools.
I would suggest in passing that should a deficiency payment plan be established by the government it should cover the two years 1955-56 and 1956-57. In other words, two moderate payments made retroactive for the two years mentioned would be better than one larger payment made for one year. I suggest this because Saskatchewan has such a large geographical area that in one section we find that in a certain year good yields were received, while in another section poor yields were received in the same year. If the deficiency payments were smaller but covered the two years it would be of the most benefit to the most people.
The case for deficiency payments as set forth by the wheat pools is as follows:
The plan for deficiency payments on wheat, oats and barley delivered to the Canadian Wheat Board for the seasons 1955-56 and 1956-57 proposed by the Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta wheat pools

is based on the submission made to the government by the three prairie wheat pools on January 13, 1958.
It should be noted that the basis for determining the level of deficiency payments is related to Saskatchewan farm prices. It is assumed that if the plan is implemented, Canadian Wheat Board figures for the three prairie provinces will be used instead of Saskatchewan figures. Preliminary checking indicates that the figure for the three provinces would be approximately the same as for Saskatchewan.
The case for deficiency payments is based on some of the following factors:
(a)	Since 1947 there has been an increase of 50.3 per cent in the cost of goods and services used by farmers.
(b)	During the same period there has been a 20.8 per cent drop in the average price of wheat on the farm. The average price for barley has dropped 27 per cent and oats have dropped 36.7 per cent.
(c)	Only once in the history of western Canadian agriculture has the purchasing power of a bushel of wheat been lower than it is now, and that was in the great depression of the 1930's.
(d)	It took one box carload of grain to buy a small combine in 1946. Now it takes 2] carloads. (1,845 bushels compared with 3,963 bushels).
(e)	The farm income problem is not directly related to lack of markets. The average annual deliveries from the farm for the last five years amounted to 391 million bushels. The 35-year average was 319 million bushels.
(f)	Average exports of wheat for the last five years amounted to 292 million of wheat annually compared with an average of 257 million bushels annually for the past 35 years.
While these developments have been occurring which adversely affect the position of the farmer, other segments of the economy have been able to offset increase in costs:
(a)	Since 1947 the average weekly earnings of those employed in industry exclusive of the primary production industries have increased by 77.3 per cent.
(b)	The gross national product which may be regarded as the barometer of economic activity has more than doubled.
(c)	The general wholesale price index has risen 39.5 per cent.
(d)	General freight rates have increased by about 116 per cent.
The case for deficiency payments is based on the principle that grain producers should receive a return from the production of the farm that will bear a fair relationship to their costs of production and to Canadian living standards.
This was submitted on April 30, 1958 by the Manitoba pool elevators, the Saskatchewan wheat pool and the Alberta wheat pool. I would suggest that these grain marketing agencies represent about 185,000 of our farm population.
In the light of the Baker commission report which indicates a complete agrarian change is taking place, especially in Saskatchewan, I strongly urge that if a deficiency payment is made, and I seriously feel it should be, we have a ceiling placed on whatever payment formula may be set up. Once a level of payments has been approved, the machinery of the Canadian wheat board could be used to

determine the exact amount of money involved and also make the distribution. "
Another serious problem we have in western Canada, as was pointed out in the Baker commission report, concerns the exodus of the young farmer from his normal farm environment to the larger urban centres. In so far as Saskatchewan is concerned, quite often he has moved right out of the province. The result of this has been that Saskatchewan over the last 10 years has shown a decrease in population compared to the large increases in other provinces. In order to rectify this situation I should like to endorse some plan that would make available to bona fide young farmers, and those in the middle age groups who wanted to increase their holdings, a long-term low-interest rate loan. This is something that is badly needed and is long overdue.
Another suggestion I should like to make, now that the federal government is taking over responsibility for helping to eradicate brucellosis in cattle, is that this policy be speeded up. Some teeth should be put in the act apparently because there seems to be some laxity in the application of the law applying to this disease, with resultant heavy losses in cattle herds in some parts of Saskatchewan.
I should like to say that after listening to the hon. member for Winnipeg North (Mr. Smith) on May 22, I heartily concur with his remarks pertaining to education. I have always maintained that the best asset a country has is the people who live in that country. It is a government's basic responsibility, therefore, to see that all the people have the opportunity of having a healthy body and an informed mind. These two things, tempered with some Christian education by their parents and churches, will give us the type of Canadian citizen about whom posterity will not have to be too much concerned.
In so far as health services are concerned, I should like to suggest that the government should give early consideration to a plan for the payment of depreciation costs on buildings and equipment, in conjunction with the program for building new hospitals.
Since the history-making events of March 31 I have heard quite a number of opposition groups express concern over the fact that the Prime Minister and his Conservative group have such a large majority in this house. I would hasten to say that since I come from Saskatchewan it has been my privilege to know the Prime Minister for some considerable period of time, and I can assure those who may be concerned that this large majority will only provide an extra incentive for him to work harder in
The Address-Mr. Drouin co-operation with his colleagues to implement the far-reaching policies of our party, rather than to take advantage of this situation about which they are worried. As proof of this contention I would cite the fact that the Prime Minister has presented, through the speech from the throne, the most far-reaching, positive and practical legislative program that this house has had the opportunity of debating in many years. Another indication of the fact the government does not intend to take undue advantage of its numerical superiority is the fact that they invited the opposition to appoint one of their members to be chairman of the committee of supply. This is the first time this has been done in the history of our parliament, and it is a very significant and most democratic gesture.
In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I should like to say that as a member of this government I feel it is our responsibility to see to it that all citizens living within the boundaries of this great land of ours should have an equal opportunity.
In working towards this end in co-operation with my colleagues, I feel I shall be accomplishing the most for my constituency in particular, and Canada as a whole, and that we can all join in looking forward to this second half of the twentieth century as the dawn of a bright new era in Canada, this place we call our home.
(Translation):


Mr. Noel Drouin (Dorchester):: Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasant duty, moved by feelings of the sincerest and deepest gratitude, to thank the electors of Dorchester most gratefully for the confidence they expressed in me on the elections of March 31 last. They can all rest assured of my entire devotion so that we may avail ourselves of the benefits of an efficient administration.
On my constituents' behalf, Mr. Speaker, I wish to congratulate you for the confidence which the house has once more placed in you in re-appointing you as its Speaker.
My congratulations also go to the members for Longueuil (Mr. Sevigny) and for Spa-dina (Mr. Rea) who were respectively chosen chairman and deputy chairman of committees of the whole. The hon. members for Lotbiniere (Mr. O'Hurley) and for Labelle (Mr. Courtemanche) have received portfolios. We trust that, with their experience and their innate sense of devotion to their work, they will co-operate with their cabinet colleagues in solving the problems which beset Canadians at this time.

The Address-Mr. Drouin
Mr. Speaker, I also wish to congratulate the mover (Mr. Lafreniere) and the seconder (Mr. Nielsen) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne for the magnificent way in which they have acquitted themselves of their task.
I thank my constituents for providing me with this opportunity of sitting in the Canadian parliament, following in the footsteps of the great men who have already represented the constituency of Dorchester and whose names are inscribed in the golden book of the province of Quebec. I refer to the hon. member who represented the constituency of Dorchester in 1911 and whose son honours at this time the House of Commons as its Deputy Speaker. I refer also to the first citizen of the province of Quebec, the present lieutenant governor who sat here for Dorchester between 1930 and 1935.
Mr. Speaker, the constituency of Dorchester is a fine constituency situated on the southern shore of the St. Lawrence, whose landscape is graced by several rivers flowing against the background of the Appalachian mountains.
As neighbours I have the pleasure of having to the north, a great lawyer, the hon. member for Bellechasse (Mr. Dorion), to the west, the hon. member for Lotbiniere, the Minister of Defence Production, to the east, our good friends the Americans and to the south, the hon. member for Beauce, Mr. Racine, to whom I would like to wish a very happy stay in this house. I do hope that he will receive the gift of wisdom, so that he may rest at peace with himself during the four next years of the life of this parliament.
Mr. Speaker, my constituents live by agriculture, lumbering, maple syrup production and some local trade. I would like to point out to the house that even if the constituency of Dorchester is beautiful to the point of engaging a poet's fancy, it is nevertheless an extremely poor area since it has always been neglected and since its geographical location makes it impossible for it to benefit from large scale public works as has been the case in other constituencies.
Mr. Speaker, the Liberal government which was in power for 22 years was never too liberal with the constituency of Dorchester. There is not a single breathing soul who could, at this time, in the constituency of Dorchester, bear witness to the existence of that government. And yet in 1957 and 1958 we heard our hon. friends to the right singing the praises and extolling the virtues of the Liberal government. Oh! it was something, Mr. Speaker, to hear those descriptions


of Liberal government achievements! We were given to understand, or at least such was my impression, that it was a highly precise mechanism, a masterpiece made by certain highly trained specialists who had managed to set up a kind of fascinating scientific instrument. We were told that the country was prosperous, that taxes could not be lowered, that agriculture was in a wonderful position-according to the hon. member of Montmagny-L'Islet (Mr. Lesage) -and that moreover, the Liberal government had had the wisdom to name wise men to look after Canada's interests abroad.
Yet, Mr. Speaker, a few months with a government bent on saving Canada for Canadians were enough to show decisively that the theories of the last government were wrong. Taxes were reduced and Canadians breathe easier. The present agricultural legislation is worthy of the wisdom of a Solomon. In the haven of peace, vigilant lookouts stand on guard to prevent a recurrence of past catastrophes.
Mr. Speaker, it seems inconceivable that the hon. member for St. Jean-Iberville-Napierville (Mr. Dupuis) should claim that the Conservative government has always brought depression to our country; uncontrovertible facts prove the contrary. In 1929, under a Liberal government there was a memorable market crash which plunged the whole country headlong into a baleful depression. In 1930, the economic depression sank to even greater depths. For five years, the Conservative government did its best to correct the mistakes of the Liberal government. In 1935, the Liberal government was back in the saddle on the strength of statements that no other party could pull the country out of the depression. Yet, conditions remained just as hard and deplorable, and the number of unemployed reached astronomical proportions, up to 1939. In 1956, the Liberal government's carelessness touched off a new economic depression.
Mr. Speaker, I resent the snide remarks of my friends over here who claim there is a definite difference between the members from the province of Quebec and those from the rest of the country. To a certain extent, Mr. Speaker, I agree with the hon. members of the opposition. It is indeed true that they themselves consistently strive to tear pieces out of the most sacred document we have in this country, the British North America Act, a document responsible for the unity, the enlightenment and the peace of Canada.

Mr. Speaker, allow me to thank the government and its leader for the excellent legislation enacted since they came to power.
Allow me also to draw the attention of that same government to the urgent needs of the constituency of Dorchester. We are well located geographically and there would be room in my riding for heavy industry. It would make up for the mistake of the former government which put all its eggs in one basket or, in other words, concentrated the whole industry of Canada in a rather restricted area, a very unhappy situation from a strategic point of view.
It seems to me that the people of eastern Canada also pay taxes. We are big buyers, and as far as industry is concerned, we are not getting our fair share. Every day we witness the breakdown of families whose children have to seek work in factories abroad, manufacturing the plough that will be used in tilling the ancestral land.
I should like to urge upon the government the processing of our raw materials here in Canada and specially not to export raw steel from the province of Quebec because, at the same time, we export employment.
I would also ask the government to impose severe penalties on companies who exploited our farmers in the purchase of pulpwood, especially in the constituency of Dorchester.
May I also ask the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Harkness) to restore the subsidy on aluminum buckets for maple syrup, which subsidy was abolished by the Liberal government in 1954.
Mr. Speaker, I would like the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Green) to have a look at the public works started way back in 1933 by the Conservative government, in the constituency of Dorchester, and which was left unfinished, like Schubert's symphony. The Liberal government never had the courage to complete the public works started from 1930 to 1935 by my illustrious predecessor.
I would also like to remind the government with particular emphasis of the greatest weatth of our country, a wealth greater than all our mines, greater than all the wheat of our western prairies, namely, our young people. It seems to me that it is our urgent duty and absolute obligation to invest money in an asset so rich, so promising, that nothing else in this country can pay higher dividends.
In my opinion, if family allowances were doubled, it would be easier to open to these young folk the doors of our schools and of
The Address-Mr. Yacula our universities. There would be less juvenile delinquency, fewer prisons and, on the other hand, more teachers and more scientists.
Mr. Speaker, I submit those few remarks to the government and to its enlightened leader, hoping to see them acted upon.
Mr. Speaker, I should like to express in this house, on my own behalf and on behalf of my constituents, the confidence we have in our right honourable leader. We know that he is in the same class with the Macdonalds, the Bennetts, and so on. We know that he will bring the light of day to our country. We know that he is a great star, shining over Canada, enlightening it and making it a better country to live in.
(Text):


Mr. W. V. Yacula (Springfield):: Allow me, Mr. Speaker, to join with the other speakers in extending to you, sir, my felicitations upon your elevation to the high position of Speaker of this house. It is certain by now that you use excellent discretion and possess great wisdom.
May I also congratulate those others with whom you are associated, and especially do I wish to direct my congratulations to the mover (Mr. Lafreniere) and the seconder (Mr. Nielsen) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne. From both of these hon. gentlemen have I gleaned much knowledge concerning themselves and their constituencies.
May I also take this opportunity of extending my heartfelt thanks to my constituents for bringing their constituency up to date with the last election trend which swept Canada on March 31 last. May I say in passing that it was a glorious victory and that the people of Canada can rest assured the great majority accorded to us will not be used for purposes of power or dictatorship. I want to say that it was not power we sought, but rather the permission to go full steam ahead and in this way to give the Canadian people an efficient and effective government.
The Social Credit party in Manitoba is now a thing of the past. As someone has said, they not only lost their "propagander" but also their "propagoose". The C.C.F.'ers, however, fared somewhat better, and they should find solace and comfort in the fact that when they file their political income tax return to the government they can indicate on the balance sheet a net loss of 17. To the group of eight may I quote the

The Address-Mr. Yacula words of Professor John Jewkes of Oxford, as reported in the Reader's Digest of June, 1953, as follows:
On my recent trip to the U.S.A., I have found an uncomfortable feeling that something is happening in American society which is familiar to me because it happened in Great Britain.
There seem to be in American colleges these days many teachers who speak of the virtues of a centrally planned economy with the starry-eyed enthusiasm and the almost touching innocence regarding the realities of economic life which were so apparent in British universities between the wars. There seems to be a growing contempt for profit making, a growing irritability with the pains of readjustment which a system of free enterprise makes inevitable as, in the course of progress, it continually bursts out of its skin to take a new form. And I begin to ask myself: Is it conceivable that the American people, having provided so strong a proof of the virtues of a free economy, are gradually becoming unaware of, or indifferent to, the secrets of their own greatness?
Perhaps I am all wrong about this-I profoundly hope so. It would be tragic if socialist ideas, like the movements of men, were destined to travel westwards.
During the election campaign the Liberals were laying all the blame for the ills of this country on the Conservative party.
At six o'clock the house took recess.


[Stage Direction]
AFTER RECESS

The house resumed at eight o'clock.
Val Yacula: Mr. Speaker, when the house adjourned at six o'clock I was saying that during the election campaign the Liberals were laying all the blame for the ills of this country on the Conservative party but let me now quote what the hon. member for Algoma East (Mr. Pearson) said in an article published in the January 1958 issue of Fortune magazine when a number of thinking people were asked to name the most important economic problem confronting the United States in the next 20 years. You will note that the recession is not mentioned by the hon. member. He said, in part:
The most important economic problem facing the United States economy during the next 20 years will be that arising from its growing reluctance to rely on international specialization and trade.
If this becomes a fixed and permanent policy, then other countries will inevitably draw the conclusion that the United States is not going to accept its responsibilities as the world's leading creditor nation by the adoption of appropriate trade policies.
Such a conclusion can be reached in spite of the amazing generosity of the American people- unparalleled in history-in their aid program for less fortunate nations.
What, however, is required is trade, not aid, and this means changes in United States policy. Without such changes there will be economic conflict, rather than economic co-operation, between the
[Mr. Yacula. 1
United States and its friends. And without economic co-operation it will be increasingly difficult to work together politically and for collective defence.
The final decision rests with United States firms themselves. They should agree to invest more capital abroad in the form of loans and bonds and less in the form of equity capital.
They should be content with less ownership and control in other countries.
In such an event without forfeiting the legitimate reward which they have a right to expect for their efforts, they will avoid those undesirable political repercussions in the economic field which can have unhappy political consequences.
And again, as reported in the Ottawa Citizen of May 22,
The hon. member for Algoma East was one of the few voices coming out strongly to say that American protectionism is damaging western unity. Why is it, he asked, that Americans are prepared to spend large sums to aid other countries but will do little trading with them? He said that Americans will take action to protect a single group in the United States of America without considering that this action might mean "disaster for another country which is a friend of yours."
Mr. Speaker, I want to say a few words in regard to my constituency of Springfield, one of the largest in Canada, embracing an area roughly speaking west of the historic Red river from Emesville and Rossdale to the Ontario boundary line and south from the new No. 1 highway north to Berens river.
We Canadians are proud to possess two of the greatest assets:	one, our natural
resources without which no country can contribute freely either to its citizens or to the world at large, and the other our population which is the greatest asset any country can possess. Canada is proud to have within her realm a population made up of various backgrounds, a veritable mosaic indeed. A pot containing the best soup in the world. Look within the walls of this parliament and you will see representatives of various colours, races and religions representing different sections of this country. One such section among the 265 is my constituency of Springfield which today I have the honour and good fortune to represent in this great parliament of Canada, a parliament which does and will continue to play an important part in the affairs of this country and outside of Canada as [DOT] well. Our two greatest assets are, then, our natural resources and our people.
My constituency is rich in natural resources but these must be developed by means of governmental direction and vision. At the extreme north of my constituency are deposits of great mineral wealth as witness the San Antonio mines. But these resources need roads to get to them and bridges over which to cross the waters. In the town of Bissett is

an industry giving employment and developing another fine community of splendid men, women and children but they need our praise and encouragement.
Travelling south from Bissett we come to Pine Falls where a large paper mill is in operation giving employment to hundreds of farmers, wood cutters, truckers, transportation agencies, et cetera. Pine Falls is a beautiful town indeed and a great asset, not only to my constituency but to the growth and development of the province of Manitoba and Canada as a whole. But up to now this great industrial town has not had a decent road and it is roads that create and establish friendship, neighbourliness and unity in any district.
In that same area we have a great historical river rushing into lake Winnipeg. On that river within my constituency are five power plants, the Pine Falls plant, the Great falls plant, the MacArthur falls plant, the Pointe du Bois plant and the Seven Sisters falls plant supplying power to Winnipeg and the surrounding districts. These areas also have great scenic beauty and are important tourist attractions but we, as Canadians, lack the initiative, courage and vision to build roads into these areas in order to transform these century-old -if I may use the term-sedentary resources into human usefulness and reality. I trust that when my government undertakes its great national development scheme the term "north" will include the northern area of my constituency.
I have other things to relate about my constituency. In the village of Whitemouth there is a fine brickyard and in Julius, a moss plant that has been giving employment to farmers in their spare time enabling them to earn much needed dollars. This plant makes use of our marshes and swamps which for centuries were characterized as useless in the production of valuable and necessary products. But this enterprise has had very little encouragement from outside sources and worst of all it too needs roads which could be maintained by the industry. In fact, there is no sign on the highway to attract the attention of tourists.
One of our major municipalities, St. Clements, has the Canadian Industries Limited plant and a power plant is under construction. Lac du Bonnet has a rice processing and alfalfa plant. The Brokenhead municipality is noted for Garson and Tyndall stones. You will find that the walls of this parliament building are built of Tyndall stone. Other areas are noted for mixed farming. Gonor and Narol-the latter one of the largest villages in Canada-are especially famous for market gardening. Beausejour is, as it were,
The Address-Mr. Yacula the capital of my constituency. It is a town with electricity, sewer and water, a hospital, recreational and educational facilities, hotel accommodation and a most attractive area for new industrial establishments. Here is located one of the largest farm markets in eastern Manitoba, an excellent place for buyers and sellers to meet. Lockport is a great recreational centre but the bridge there needs widening to permit an ever-increasing number of cars to pass over it. It is a veritable bottleneck now.
In referring to my constituency I cannot neglect mentioning what is being done for the Lac du Bonnet district, for my constituency, for Manitoba, for Canada and perhaps for the North American continent by a gentleman named Mr. Fred Gauer who is in the process of building and establishing one of the largest turkey farms in the world. The establishment will consist of modern, up to date buildings of fireproof and steel construction. Turkeys there will live an ideal turkey life. The farm and processing plant will be capable of processing 250,000 turkeys. This will, indeed, help Lac du Bonnet and Mr. Gauer is indeed doing his share as a great Canadian in promoting industry and giving employment to a number of people in the constituency of Springfield.
But do we appreciate as administrators of government what he is doing for us? Not too much. He needs a road able to handle the heavy traffic necessary over which to deliver supplies of feed stores, oil, et cetera. This is where good government should come in. Why have I mentioned these things? It is because we as a government should encourage and help to make these industries bigger and happier so that they may go on expanding and hiring more people and thus go on building larger and better up to date communities.
The population of this country is one of our greatest assets. Our boys and girls must have food, clothing and shelter, but these must be provided by their parents and the parents must have work. This work must be provided by individuals and private industries or establishments and the whole panorama of activities must be looked after or supervised by the government. In this way the whole circle of our economy will run efficiently. I say that when we can wage wars successfully we ought to be able to fight recessions and depressions just as successfully and effectively, in fact more so. For wars destroy and things destroyed must be replaced, but during times of peace we do not destroy, we create.
Food, clothing and shelter in fair abundance will eliminate and eradicate communism
658	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. Yacula and unrest but starvation, rags and slums are hotbeds for the dissemination of reactionary ideas. I, therefore, suggest that the government go full steam ahead into the things we promised our people to do, to bring about better times, better fortunes and above all, a bigger Canada.
Realizing that the new and young are always ready to give those who are older than themselves the full benefit of their inexperience, may I suggest that we look ahead and try to win the battle which is going to confront us. Let us not believe in the policy that it is the survival of the slickest, rather let us believe that it is the survival of the best and the fittest. Who is the fittest? I say to you, Mr. Speaker, it is the present government! The present Progressive Conservative ' party is a purely Canadian party. It was born on June 10, 1957 and it will be a robust one-year old Canadian on June 10, 1958. This one year old Canadian will be able to stand up for serenity, sympathy, simplicity, sincerity and security.
This one year old has passed the farm bill No. 237 which will provide a flexible price support program to provide stabilization of prices of agricultural commodities. Action was taken to protect our pea growers and poultry farmers. Action was also taken to set or extend price supports on butter and butterfat, sugar beets and eggs. More money was set aside with which to build new houses and unemployment benefits were extended recently. These are just a few of the things that this government did. And why Mr. Speaker? Because we have a great Prime Minister (Mr. Diefenbaker). In the Prime Minister we have a man of dynamic personality, a man of generous thought, a man of sincerity, a man of vision, a man of faith, a unifier. The Prime Minister has united this country again. In passing, may I say he has even united the Ukrainians. Whereas previously their representation in parliament consisted of one Conservative, one Liberal, one C.C.F.'er and one Social Crediter, today there are six and they are all Conservatives.
I am for a great national public works undertaking. It is roads that cement us together. It was the C.P.R. that saved Canada and united her from coast to coast. It was Sir John A. Macdonald, who without the present availability of capital and skill, equipment and population, sir, went ahead and achieved the magnificent feat of laying steel from one sea to another in a period of ten years.
And yet during the 23 years of Liberal regime, with all the easy availability of capital, engineering skill, tools of precision and heavy machinery, what have they built


in the way of a national highway? The trans-Canada has been under construction for years and what have they done? They merely patched and patched and patched. They built a patch-quilt, a trail. Have we in western Canada seen cars from Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Quebec? Is Canada, whose population will soon reach the 20 million mark, going to be satisfied with a No. 1 highway? And why, sir? Because the Liberals lacked faith and vision. Even today they think of Canada in terms of igloos and wigwams.
It was this dilly-dallying, indecision and lack of vision that cost the ratepayers of this country millions of dollars extra. I refer to the Winnipeg post office. Had this been built years ago it would have cost this country $3 million instead of $9 million. I say that that is why we became regionalized and sectionalized, if I may use these words, during the late Liberal government.
Before concluding I would suggest that the government give consideration to the possibility of trading with Russia and China. Here are two important countries, ready to do business with us. The recent visit of Canadian businessmen to Russia strongly suggests such an undertaking. Since Russia has risen from a peasant state to one comparable with any of the modern powers in the field of culture, sports et cetera and since Russia is here to stay we should be able to co-exist with her. Diplomatically we have accomplished that; politically we have not.
Let me quote from a submission to the Canadian government on May 28, 1958, by the interprovincial farm union council. At page 7 we find this:
Anything that will encourage development in Canada, increase the population and keep the general economy at a high level is beneficial to agriculture. There is no better market than our home market, but international trade is also of great importance to Canadian agriculture. Anything that can be done to encourage international trade will work to the benefit of agriculture and will enable us to sell more of our products on the world market. In the light of the current general economic situation, it is imperative that we re-assess our national trade policies.
I shall conclude by saying, first, that the throne speech is an excellent document of action, and is certainly superior in both quantity and quality to the one read on January 8, 1957. Secondly, I wish to thank the Minister of National Defence (Mr. Pearkes) for giving the members of this house the opportunity to become acquainted with the activities and establishments under his jurisdiction. The visit to Kingston on May 24 was a great success, and the courtesy shown throughout the tour by all concerned was beyond description.


Lester Bowles Pearson: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member who has just sat down-and I congratulate him on his maiden speech-has just stated that the Liberal party lacked faith in this country. The Canadian record of the last 57 years denies the validity of that observation. We do, Mr. Speaker, share the faith of other Canadians in this country. We have demonstrated that faith and will demonstrate it in works rather than in words.
But it was not to prolong the debate in this way that I have ventured to rise on this occasion. Indeed, most hon. members will be relieved by the knowledge that the debate cannot be prolonged much farther. But I do wish to declare the position of the opposition in regard to the amendment which is now before us, and also to indicate the significance of the vote that we shall be casting at 9.30 in favour of the address in reply to the speech from the throne, I would not wish there to be any misunderstanding about the significance of that vote.
We will support the amendment. It reads:
We respectfully represent to Your Excellency that, in the opinion of this house, consideration should be given to the advisability of presenting legislation at this session to relieve the very heavy financial burden now carried by the municipalities of this country.
This amendment merely recognizes the fact, a fact which no one can deny, that the municipalities are in financial difficulties, and suggests that something by legislation should be done about it.


An hon. Member:: It took 22 years to see it.


Lester Bowles Pearson: It is also a fact that these financial difficulties of the municipalities have been greatly increased by the recession and by the burden of unemployment-


Mr. Pallell:: Brought on by the Liberals.


Lester Bowles Pearson: -which increased the
demands made on the municipalities.


An hon. Member:: Brought about by the Liberal government.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Nonsense.


Lester Bowles Pearson: That is to say the least a debatable interruption. It is also undeniable that the tax burden on real estate in municipalities is heavy and, on the other hand, that there are a great many municipal projects which should be proceeded with and which the municipalities desire to proceed with.


An hon. Member:: You never proceeded with them.


Lester Bowles Pearson: We did not take control of the municipalities when we were in power. While this is true, anything that is done in this respect by legislation should, of course, respect
The Address-Mr. Pearson
the rights and jurisdiction of the provinces of whom the municipalities-and this is sometimes forgotten-are the creatures.
One way of recognizing this problem, of facing it and of putting ourselves federally in a position to do something about it would have been to hold, as the government stated they would hold, a federal-provincial conference at which the municipalities' problems could have been discussed and at which their representatives could have been present as part of provincial delegations. That conference which was promised by the government has not been held and we have had no information that it is going to be held. It is true that we got an announcement from Edmonton the other day that there would be a federal-municipal conference. That announcement, I think, was greeted with some surprise as indicating perhaps a new agency of government activity under our federal system.


Herbert Wilfred Herridge: A new vision.


Lester Bowles Pearson: But the Prime Minister (Mr. Diefenbaker) explained away that announcement this morning by saying that this would merely be a meeting at which the federal government would receive representations from the mayors in accordance with a procedure which is very well established already in this country and, indeed, I suspect just following up the meeting which was held last February with the federation of mayors and municipalities.
As I have said, we on this side do recognize these municipal difficulties. Already outside the house and during the election campaign we have put forward some concrete proposals which we believe would help the municipalities and perhaps if the amendment carries this would be the kind of legislation that the government would be happy to introduce for that purpose. I know the government is always anxious to receive and act on the constructive proposals from this side of the house.
For one thing, we said that a Liberal government would establish a municipal loan fund in order to make available additional finances on a long term basis for major municipal improvements at reasonable rates of interest.


An hon. Member:: When?


Lester Bowles Pearson: Well, perhaps it would have been done by now if the results of the election had been a little different. In any event, as it is not going to be possible for us to do it directly perhaps we can do it indirectly through my right hon. friend and his government. This would mean readier availability of funds which would make possible an immediate start on municipal projects, of

The Address-Mr. Pearson which there are a multitude in Canada now awaiting financing, and thus quickly provide jobs throughout the country. That is the kind of local public works program that would provide immediate jobs and it would also help to bring about a rapid expansion of urgently needed municipal services which in many cases have been long delayed because of lack of funds.
The exact scope and administrative set-up of this fund would have to be settled, of course, in consultation with representatives of the provinces and the municipalities. That could be done at the federal-provincial conference which we still hope the government will be calling one of these days to deal with these and related problems.


An hon. Member:: Why didn't you call one?


Lester Bowles Pearson: Well, we have a very good answer to that question. The reason we have not called this conference is that we are on this side of the house at the present time.


An hon. Member:: You had 22 years to do it.


Lester Bowles Pearson: And during that 22 years, we called more than one provincial conference and during that 22 years this country went through the greatest period of national expansion in the history of Canada. That is something that is so often forgotten. My hon. friends opposite think that Canadian history began on June 10, 1957. I am quite ready to confess, Mr. Speaker, that a new chapter of Canadian history began on June 10, 1957 but we are not very confident that the things that will be written in that chapter will be as greatly to the advantage of our country as those that were written in the chapter which preceded.
There was something else we on this side of the house proposed during the election campaign, and this is another idea which is given without any requirement of acknowledgment by my hon. friends opposite. It has been pointed out already by this side in the short debate we had the other day on housing problems that there is an urgent need to speed up the redevelopment of blighted areas in our cities. In order to promote this redevelopment program we proposed if we were in a position of responsibility to do it to amend the existing legislation to provide for greater participation by the federal government in this activity. In particular, we proposed to increase federal participation in slum clearance schemes from 50 per cent to 75 per cent and to provide for federal sharing in the cost of water, sewer and street services in the area concerned. Also we proposed to ease the present restrictions on redevelopment so as to permit redevelopment for commercial and other purposes as well as for housing if that were considered advisable.

So when I say that we on this side support an amendment which advocates legislation to ease the burden on municipalities we at the same time make concrete proposals to that end.
In a few minutes, we will be voting on the address. As I have said, we will vote in favour of the address but I also want to remove any possibility of any misunderstanding as to the significance of that vote. The motion that we will vote on is merely this:
That the following address be presented to His Excellency the Governor General of Canada:
To His Excellency the Right Honourable Vincent Massey, Member of the Order of the Companions of Honour, Governor General and Commander-inChief of Canada.
May it please Your Excellency:
We, Her Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the House of Commons of Canada, in parliament assembled, beg leave to offer our humble thanks to Your Excellency for the gracious speech which Your Excellency has addressed to both houses of parliament.
In other words, this is simply a word of thanks and appreciation to His Excellency for the speech addressed to both houses at the opening of parliament. It is nothing more and nothing less than that. It follows the traditional pattern in that regard and the vote, of course, will follow that traditional pattern. Perhaps hon. members, especially the new members, may be interested in learning that in 1946 there was an explanation by the prime minister of that day, Mr. Mackenzie King, as to the significance of this kind of vote at this time. In that explanation Mr. King quoted from a work by Todd on parliamentary government, and I read from page 354 of Hansard for March 28, 1946. He said:
It has now become a well-established rule, to regard the speech from the throne, and the address in reply thereto, as reciprocal acts of courtesy between the crown and the houses of parliament, and the address itself as the unanimous and respectful expression of the deference with which the house should leceive the first communication of the session from the sovereign, and as pledging the house to nothing, save the serious consideration of the matters referred to therein.
Again from that work, Mr. King quoted the following:
Accordingly, it has gradually become the practice to refrain from moving an amendment to the address in answer to the royal speech, "unless some great political objects were in view, and likely to be attained"; or, unless some assertion were made in the address to which the opposition found it impossible to assent.
We have moved our amendments, Mr. Speaker, and when those amendments are disposed of one way or the other, then there remains the vote on the address in accordance with the custom and convention laid down in the words I have just read. In the course of

his remarks in 1946, Mr. King was interrupted by the leader of the C.C.F. party, Mr. Cold-well, who said:
May I ask the Prime Minister a question? Does he then regard the passage of the address, without division, as an expression of confidence in the government?
Mr. Mackenzie King, who was prime minister and not leader of the opposition at that time, said:
Most certainly not.


Mr. Coldwell:: That is the whole point.


Mr. Mackenzie King:: I wish to make that clear. Nor does the passage of the address without division commit any member to anything expressed in the address. An amendment affords an opportunity to take exception to what appears or does not appear in the speech from the throne and to the government's policy, but when amendments which have been proposed are rejected and there is nothing left but the simple expression of thanks to His Majesty or His Majesty's representative for having come to parliament and opened its proceedings, it certainly places the Commons in an anomalous position vis-a-vis the crown to refuse to thank His Majesty or His Majesty's representative for that act of courtesy.
Mr. Speaker, we in the loyal opposition do not wish to be placed in that anomalous and disloyal position, and for that reason, and for that reason only, we will support the address.


John George Diefenbaker: Mr. Speaker, I shall be returning in a moment or so to the observations of my hon. friend, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Pearson). Suffice it to say this: it is a matter of great interest to me to find Mr. Mackenzie King again quoted by the Liberal party as an authority because he has been left in abeyance for a number of years. In recent years we have found in this house that the opinions that he uttered from time to time on constitutional and other matters did not receive the same degree of obeisance as was accorded them this evening by the Leader of the Opposition.
I rise for the purpose of dealing, in particular, with the amendment moved by the C.C.F. party. I read that amendment:
We respectfully represent to Your Excellency that, in the opinion of this house, consideration should be given to the advisability of presenting legislation at this session to relieve the very heavy financial burden now carried by the municipalities of this country.
I say at this point that in so far as that amendment is concerned, whatever the nature of the amendment, it is a vote of nonconfidence in the government and as such I hope and expect that the house will not give it any other credence than that it is, in fact, a vote of non-confidence. In the last few days during the progress of this debate I found that an unusually good contribution had been made by members in all parts of the house. The new members
The Address-Mr. Diefenbaker of the house have made a contribution that presages a greater contribution for them in the years ahead.
There is little to answer at this time, however, in the arguments advanced by the official opposition, for no serious criticism has been made. Oh, there have been some matters dealt with. There have been rehashes of the speeches that were made in the recent election campaign. There has been little serious criticism. This can be well understood, for generally speaking the press of this country has indicated that no speech from the throne within memory has contained so many prospective subjects of worth-while legislation as the one that opened the present parliament. For that reason, criticism would naturally be uncertain, aimless, if not picayune. This has been characteristic of the criticism that we have heard in the last few days. Most of it has been a simple rehash of those things that were dealt with during the recent election campaign.
I shall do no more in answering them than to say that they were, in fact, of the essence of the opposition campaign during recent months. As I listened to my hon. friend, the Leader of the Opposition, enunciating the feeling of that opposition, that feeling for the municipalities of this country; that solicitude for their needs and requirements; that feeling that action should be taken in the matter of slum clearance and the like, I wondered what the government of which my hon. friend was a member did with respect to those things while it was in power. I have before me a book-and I assure you, Mr. Speaker, I do not intend to quote very much from it-which represents what I choose to call the promises and commitments made by the Leader of the Opposition during the campaign of February to March.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Worthy emulation.


John George Diefenbaker: I missed that observation from the pundit from Bonavista-Twillingate.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Mr. Speaker, I would not like to deprive the Prime Minister; I suggested it was worthy emulation.


John George Diefenbaker: Mr. Speaker, agriculture was discovered during those days of the election; the difficulties of the farmer were discovered during that election campaign. Observations were made by my hon. friend concerning the need for assistance to the western farmer, the eastern farmer, to the fisherman and to the people of practically every part of the economy of this country. Action should have been taken with respect to these matters during the days, the latter days particularly, of the last administration of which my hon. friend was a member. Why
682	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. Diefenbaker did they not act on these matters? Unless I am pressed to refer to them in detail, I do not intend to do so.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Go ahead.


John George Diefenbaker: There is the matter of action with regard to the municipalities. My hon. friend mentioned the promise. It is necessary, he said, to establish a municipal loan fund in consultation with the provinces and municipalities to help finance major municipal improvements on a long term basis to supplement present methods of municipal financing. Why did you not do it when you were in power? The municipalities were asking for this over and over again.


Lester Bowles Pearson: That was before the depression.


John George Diefenbaker: I will read what the municipal convention said and the representations they made to the government of my hon. friend from 1945 on. They received none of this solicitous consideration that the cold shadows of opposition have caused the opposition to express. I rather expected my hon. friend to say that there was a reason why they did not act. I read from the statement to the government of Canada made on February 7, 1958 and to which he just made reference. I read from page A-4 as follows:
Since 1945, and increasingly with every passing year, the pressures for urgent and costly programs of local improvements and modern community facilities have continued to mount. There is little prospect that any substantial proportion of these needs can be provided unless facilitating financial assistance can be made available to municipal governments.
Then it deals with the factors, all of them continuing since 1945. They are as follows:
1.	Growth in urban population and the consequent unprecedented demand for new schools, new roads, new hospitals, new water and sewerage systems and other essential municipal facilities.
They were asking for assistance in this regard. They made an annual pilgrimage to the former government and what did they receive? They did not get action. They did not receive promises either, I will say. They simply were asked in effect to return another year. The next one is this:
2.	Spread of urban blight and obsolescence, particularly in our older and larger cities and which has a depreciating effect on property use and property values with serious revenue decline to municipal governments.
That is the point my hon. friend makes now, namely that the situation in the cities is serious and that action should be taken in order to remove these urban blights. It is passing strange that some action was not taken in this regard.
	,


An hon. Member:: What are you doing today?


John Whitney Pickersgill: What about Regent Park?


John George Diefenbaker: Since 1945 these presentations have been made to the government of Canada in successive years.
3.	Flight to the suburbs which has added vast new capital municipal needs to an already large backlog born of depression and war.
4.	Technological advances which have outmoded much of the standard municipal plant and facilities of an earlier period.
And so on. The presentation this year goes on to set out the situation that had been placed before the government over and over again. Yet tonight my hon. friend rises in his place and in lacrimose tones speaks of how terrible these conditions are and of how they require action. Successive meetings of the Canadian federation of mayors and municipalities placed these situations before the government of which he was a member without getting any action. I am going to read further from this foreword as follows:
The Canadian Federation of Mayors and Municipalities is a national organization set up by the municipal governments of Canada to provide the means of inter-municipal co-operation between and among the municipalities of all provinces-
-the federation, over recurrent years, has come before the dominion government for the purpose of presenting resolutions passed at its annual conference and, generally, to place before the cabinet the point of view of municipal governments with respect to diverse municipal problems which, directly or indirectly, fall within the scope of the dominion government's jurisdiction. Many of these matters are of a financial nature. Others have to do with trends and developments which, while they particularly affect urban communities, are of no less concern to the nation as a whole,-
My hon. friend says these conditions are recent. Let me read the next paragraph:
In earlier submissions to previous governments, the federation outlined in considerable detail the background problems, particularly the financial problem, which have plagued municipal governments ever since pre-war depression years.
Let us have no more of this nonsense, that this is a recent condition. This is a matter that throughout the years was brought before the government of which my hon. friend was a distinguished member and which, in so far as the municipalities were concerned, gave them an attentive hearing and nothing more.
When these people appeared before us they made representation as to what they would like to have done. They asked for the convening of a conference. I am going to refer to the nature of the conference they asked for:
Finally, the municipal governments desire to reiterate, once again,-

And I underline and emphasize those words "once again".
-their request, made to previous governments on earlier occasions, that a dominion-provincial-municipal conference be convened for the sole and express purpose of considering ways and means whereby municipal governments of Canada can be placed in a position to more adequately discharge the responsibilities which devolve upon them.
This is not a recent matter. As is stated in this brief, it has existed since pre-war depression days and has continued down to the present time.
The need for such a conference has been cumulatively pressing during recent years.
Why the sudden solicitude on the part of my hon. friend? Over and over again the municipalities asked for action. It has become a matter of considerable urgency. If the municipal governments throughout Canada are to cope with the growth and development problems which confront them, such a conference-whether it is on an informal or formal basis-has become imperative and cannot be long delayed.
The municipal governments are of the view that it is in the national, as well as the provincial and local interest, to reassess the field of responsibility which properly belongs to municipal governments in these days and to establish for these purposes an adequate revenue and finance structure.
Only so can municipal governments properly plan to adequately discharge their responsibilities to the citizens who comprise their communities.
Over and over again the municipalities asked for bread and what did the last government give them? It gave them not bread but a stone.


John Whitney Pickersgill: It gave them hundreds of millions of dollars.


Lionel Chevrier: It gave them hundreds of millions of equalization payments.


John George Diefenbaker: The hon. member for Bonavista-Twillingate at one time had a position behind the throne and, later on, one on the throne. While he continued in both of those positions, the municipalities asked for action and action was not given to them. Now my hon. friends ask me what stand we have taken in this regard. I am going to outline the stand that we have taken and the assistance we have given to the municipalities. I am going to deal with the steps we have taken and the assistance we have given to the municipalities.
The first has to do with a matter which particularly affects the various municipalities of this country and which over the years has been requested by the various delegations which have come to Ottawa, namely a measure to provide for an increase in the railway grade crossing fund and in order to
The Address-Mr. Diefenbaker assist the municipalities in this particular regard we increased the amount available in 1958 from $5 million to $15 million.
The municipalities pointed out the tremendous cost of hospitalization and the first action we took was this: we increased, under the national health plan the federal grant for hospital construction from $1,000 to $2,000 per hospital bed in order to assist the municipalities in that particular regard.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Who started it?


John George Diefenbaker: The next thing we did was to remove something which had been requested over the years. At the dominion-provincial conference held last fall we removed the .45 threshold provision for unemployment assistance, which was of immediate fiscal assistance to the municipalities.
The next thing we did was with respect to one of the most serious problems of our municipalities, namely the tight money policy of the last government which placed the municipalities-


Lionel Chevrier: That is not what the governor of the Bank of Canada says.


John George Diefenbaker: I will come back to my hon. friend in a little while. I understand the sense of frustration he feels.


Lionel Chevrier: We have heard that often now.


John George Diefenbaker: I can understand that, my hon. friend having given up the position of chairman of the St. Lawrence seaway.


Lionel Chevrier: That is a great retort.


John Whitney Pickersgill: This is the new dignity of parliament.


John George Diefenbaker: What was the interjection?


Lionel Chevrier: I said that was a great retort.


John George Diefenbaker: No, it was not a retort; it was just a statement of fact. The next action we took was in regard to this tight money policy-


John Whitney Pickersgill: What action?


John George Diefenbaker: Mr. Speaker, my hon.
friend is here most of the time. You would have thought he would have learned by this time. We took action which had results. The municipalities of this country found themselves throttled by the cost of borrowing money. We asked for action on the part of the previous government in this regard. They took no action; they placed the municipalities in a position where the rates which the municipalities had to pay added an extra and very large burden on the resident of every municipality in the country.

The Address-Mr. Diefenbaker


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


John George Diefenbaker: They wouldn't relax it; they wouldn't take any action.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Neither did you.


John George Diefenbaker: Today they have solicitude, but my hon. friend from Bonavista-Twillin-gate (Mr. Pickersgill) does not have much solicitude for the cities because there are none in his particular area. I am speaking of the cities and of the towns of this country.


John Whitney Pickersgill: That was a most statesmanlike observation.


John George Diefenbaker: They were in the position where there was no way for them to borrow except by paying tremendous rates. Today those rates are down and as a result the municipalities find themselves in a better position than they have been in for a very long while.
The next action we took was to accept their suggestion. My hon. friend ridicules the calling of a meeting such as the one I referred to previously today. That was what was asked for on behalf of the municipalities. I referred to it a moment ago.


John Whitney Pickersgill: That was not what was promised in 1957 by the right hon. gentleman.


Lester Bowles Pearson: Get the facts.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Of course this is all a mere rehashing of the right hon. gentleman's speeches.


John George Diefenbaker: I am not going to answer that because there is no reason to do so. I am saying what we did.


John Whitney Pickersgill: But it is not what you promised.


John George Diefenbaker: I am going to refer to something I mentioned previously with respect to a formal dominion-provincial-municipal conference. As I stated to this house, they came here and it appeared impossible-


John Whitney Pickersgill: To carry out the promises.


John George Diefenbaker: -to act on the question of provincial jurisdiction which arose, the municipalities being the creation of the provincial authority. To that end I promised and undertook-and they accepted this as a necessary step forward-their suggestion that if a formal gathering could not be convened, then in that case they would be very happy to have an informal meeting. This we intend to convene in order to give the municipalities an opportunity which they have not had in the past to place their views before the government of Canada and the people of Canada in an open gathering,

convened for the very purpose of giving them just such an opportunity.
That is what we intend to do, but these are not the only actions we have taken. Over the years the municipalities have been asking for financial assistance and over the years that assistance was not given to them. They had no direct representation at the conference held here in the month of November last, but they were represented because many of them had been among the appointed personnel of the provincial representation and their views were outlined. The president of the mayors' association and other officials of that organization were present. We placed before them at that gathering our views in general and then in January of this year we made available to the provinces-over and above that which they had any right under their agreements to expect-a large sum of money payable to each of the provinces to the end that this was a means whereby the demands, the just demands, of the municipalities could be met by the federal authority.
In other words, one of the reasons advanced in November last on the part of the provinces for an additional share of the tax income of this country was the additional expenditures required to be made in municipalities which found themselves hampered, indeed throttled, by the failure of the last government to act. They pointed out these demands and in order to make provision for assistance for the time being, instead of staying within the terms of the agreements which had been entered into by the former government and which still had four years to run, we made provision for assistance to the various provinces in a manner which met with the support of the people of those provinces, regardless of the appeal it had at that time or has today to the opposition in this House of Commons.
My hon. friends opposite said there was nothing to the proposition which we advanced in January; this meant nothing to the provinces.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Who said that?


John George Diefenbaker: 
Paul Joseph James Martin: Mr. Speaker, would the Prime Minister (Mr. Diefenbaker) permit me to ask him a question? Does he now suggest that this government has fully met the demands made by the province of Ontario when the premier of that province has said he wants an additional $78 million from the government of which my hon. friend is the head?


John George Diefenbaker: There is nothing particularly difficult about that question, Mr. Speaker.


Paul Joseph James Martin: Well, answer it.


John George Diefenbaker: The provinces will naturally place the very best claim they possibly can place before their people and the country as a whole. There was no conclusion to what we did last fall. There was no conclusion in the additional funds that we voted in January. That question is simply designed to take me away from the problem I am dealing with now.


John Whitney Pickersgill: It seems to have been successful.


John George Diefenbaker: At any time my hon. friend wishes to have an opportunity to deal with this question I will be very happy to discuss it in detail. The hon. gentleman went across the country and spoke of the dreadful ogre and what was going to happen and how we were tied up to the province of Ontario but, that did not work in any of the other provinces.
I am simply pointing out what we have done within a few months. We have made possible assistance to the municipalities which they were denied throughout the years; in respect of which they made representations throughout the years and which representations received nothing more than passing consideration on the part of the former government. The problem was never faced and the plight of the municipalities did not appeal to their hearts as it finally did on February 11 of this year when my hon. friend unveiled this as
The Address-Mr. Diefenbaker another item in that list of promises concerning matters on which the government of which he was a member spurned action and to which it gave no consideration.
Then finally in 1958 we have members of that party suddenly discovering the needs of agriculturists, the needs of civil servants, the needs of education, the needs of the fisheries, the needs of housing, the needs of municipalities and the need of a national development policy. These matters suddenly commanded an interest which theretofore had not held a primary position in the thinking of the government to which the hon. member for Essex East (Mr. Martin) belonged. And speaking as one representing a Saskatchewan constituency, I cannot resist commenting that my hon. friends even discovered the Saskatchewan dam.
We faced the issue in regard to municipalities by the temporary action that was taken. May I point out to the hon. member for Essex East that the action taken is a step along the road to recognition of the serious position in which the provinces and municipalities find themselves in consequence of the degree to which the former government gobbled up the sources of the tax dollar in this country.
I have dealt with a few of the matters in connection with this particular amendment. The association of mayors and municipalities when it was here was very well satisfied with the opportunity of an informal meeting. They had asked either for a formal or an informal one. They appreciated the argument that had been advanced by various provinces with respect to the fact that municipalities are institutions of provincial creation and therefore any representations that should be made in so far as a national conference is concerned should be made through the medium of the provincial governments.
My hon. friend harked back to the question as to when another dominion-provincial conference will be called or a continuation of the last one provided for. As I have already said, that matter, in the words I quoted of Mr. Mackenzie King-who received the approbation of my hon. friend tonight-the words he used on one occasion when I asked him this same question, "That matter will receive consideration in due course."


Paul Joseph James Martin: That is not what you said in the election.


John George Diefenbaker: As far as the subject matter of this amendment is concerned, we acted immediately. We made available to the various municipalities through the indirection of assistance directly to the provinces of national funds. Having done so we intend, following the convening of this meeting
666	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. Diefenbaker to which I have made reference, to give further consideration to the problem when it will have been placed before us in the fullness and with the sense of responsibility that has always characterized the association of Canadian mayors.
We have brought before the house amendments similar to the one now before us while the late government was refusing to act. From 1950 to 1957 on at least two occasions, as I recollect, we brought up a motion in connection with assistance to municipalities and my hon. friends opposite, some of whom still sit on that side of the house, voted against any consideration being given to the municipalities or any regard being taken to the plight of those municipalities as revealed during the arguments that were advanced in that behalf at that time.
This amendment is simply a vote of nonconfidence in the government which has been the first to act in the field of assistance to municipalities, which has given evidence of its realization of the problem that faces the country in this regard and which had made possible the calling together of representatives of the association of Canadian mayors. In a community of council we may, in addition to those things already done, take such further action as may be found necessary following the meeting with the municipalities.
The government at this session does not intend to present further legislation in respect of the subject matter of this amendment. The meeting which I hope will be convened with representatives of the association of Canadian mayors cannot take place until after the commonwealth conference which is fixed for September. As soon thereafter as it is possible to do so the municipalities of this country are going to be given the opportunity to place their views before the government, and before the people of Canada, to the end that we shall be able to do something factually to meet a problem, complex in its amplitude, difficult as it is, which will provide them with further opportunities to carry out their constitutional responsibilities.
I realize that during the period from 1935 to 1957 the municipalities have year by year found themselves caught in a position which is detrimental to the discharge by them of their responsibilities under law. In that period of time the municipal share of the taxation dollar has continued to diminish to a point where there is need for some action to be taken to meet the very great challenge that faces municipalities in the discharge of their responsibilities.
I simply rose for the purpose of referring to the amendment and also to say a word to my hon. friend in appreciation of the
[Mr. Diefenbaker.l	1

solicitude that he now has for the municipalities of this country which during the period of office of the late government were the forgotten bodies in this country. I say that we have given an example of facing the issue, as we did in January last in the extra assistance given to the various provinces, and thereby indirectly to the municipalities. This is evidence of our desire to assure them a degree of fairness, justice and equity which will in the years ahead characterize the relations of the country as a whole to the municipalities.
I do not fail to remember that when we brought in the legislation to give extra assistance to the maritime provinces, $7,500,000 to three of the provinces and $2,500,000 to Prince Edward Island by agreement and the additional amounts provided by changing the taxation basis from 10 per cent to 13 per cent, my hon. friends opnosite said those things would not be appreciated; they were practically of no importance. I found that wherever I went in this country there was a new attitude, a new realization on the part of the people that this government intended and will continue to carry out its promises to the end that this confederation will be assured of the strongest possible fiscal relations in so far as the provinces and municipalities are concerned. We wish to bring about the achievement of a new development policy, which is the aspiration and desire of the members of this government, the members supporting this government and I think generally the Canadian people.


Lester Bowles Pearson: May I ask the Prime Minister a question before he resumes his seat. Now that he has given a definite statement on the informal meeting between the municipalities and the federal government, can he also give us at least some indication of the date of the federal-provincial conference.


John George Diefenbaker: Those who have ears to hear and do not hear have nothing on my hon. friend. I told him several times that there has been no determination in that regard.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Mr. Speaker, I am rising to take part very briefly in this debate not because of the clock but merely because the Prime Minister (Mr. Diefenbaker) made a statement a moment ago that the main assistance which he claimed the present government had given to the provinces was through an increase in the equalization payments and the special grants to the Atlantic provinces. I think perhaps the Prime Minister's memory was playing him tricks when he said that anyone on

this side of the house said that was not a useful thing to do. I have the debates right here in front of me.


John George Diefenbaker: Read them.


John Whitney Pickersgill: I have been looking them over very carefully, and Mr. St. Laurent who was then in the house and who, in the absence of the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Pearson), spoke first after the motion was introduced, welcomed this increase and welcomed the fact that it was based precisely on the formula that Mr. Harris and Mr. St. Laurent had devised. And, sir, if that 10 per cent increase, which was a substantial increase, that $62 million added to the $631 million that went to the provinces under the Liberal legislation, was helpful to the municipalities, surely the original $631 million was also helpful to the same end.
The view which Mr. St. Laurent, Mr. Harris and every speaker for the Liberal government took over the period was precisely the view that the right hon. gentleman has now learned since he came into office, namely that the municipalities are the creatures of the provinces. When the Prime Minister was over here he did what the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Pearson) did not make the mistake of doing tonight. When he was over here he talked as though the federal government could enter into direct relations with the municipalities in these matters.


John George Diefenbaker: Will you please quote me.


John Whitney Pickersgill: He soon discovered that was not possible. All he has been able to salvage out of his promises in the 1957 election campaign is an informal conference with the mayors and municipalities, exactly like those that have been held ever since 1945. That is all the Prime Minister's speech amounts to. The fact of the matter is, if my memory serves me, that there was less than $100 million paid in 1945 to the nine provinces under the federal-provincial arrangements then in force. When we went out of office it was $631 million. It is true there were ten provinces at that time, but there was well over $600 million for the nine. It had been multiplied by more than six times in the period since the war.
When hon. gentlemen who used to sit over here talked about the unfair division of the tax dollar they never took into account the very large sums which were collected by the federal treasury and paid out under the tax rental agreements and which most of the provinces in turn shared with the municipalities. That has been the way, the classic way, the right way, to aid municipalities, and I was very pleased to hear the right hon.
The Address-Mr. Kucherepa gentleman tonight admit that it was the only effective way of doing it. In so saying he was paying a very high compliment indeed to the government which had devised those relationships.
If these relationships, which were so unsatisfactory to a few hon. gentlemen from the province of Quebec and were the cause of protests on their part when they were over here on this side of the house, are now supported by them when they are in the government, I think we can be grateful for this great act of unification. I remember what the Minister without Portfolio (Mr. Mac-donnell), said yesterday about national unity. If the Conservative victory is going to have the effect of making it possible for the people of Quebec and especially for the government of Quebec to accept these sensible arrangements for the division of revenues between the federal and provincial governments which have meant so much to the progress of this country and the municipalities in the ten years or more since the war, if they are now going to be accepted all over the country, perhaps that is not too high a price to have paid for the government we now have.


Mr. J. W. Kucherepa (High Park):: Mr. Speaker, may I first of all congratulate you on your re-election as Speaker of the House of Commons. Your abilities in this office were well demonstrated during the short life of the memorable twenty-third parliament. May I also extend my best wishes for every success to the Deputy Speaker and deputy chairman of committees of the house on their election to their respective positions. I should also like to commend the mover (Mr. La-freniere) and seconder (Mr. Nielsen) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne for the way in which they have acquitted themselves of their tasks.
I should like also to take this opportunity to congratulate the Prime Minister (Mr. Diefenbaker) on the magnificent victory he won as leader of the Progressive Conservative party on March 31 last. I sincerely hope, as I am sure all hon. members do, that he will long retain his strength and health and that he may be able to give our country that kind of leadership for which he has already become renowned.
The last speaker, the hon. member for Bona-vista-Twillingate (Mr. Pickersgill), made mention of the question of national unity. Much has already been said on this question during this parliament and the last one, and I should like to reiterate words I uttered in this connection in the house on November 12 last. At that time I said, as found on page 1008 of Hansard:
I think most hon. members have heard on countless occasions exalted speakers of the Liberal party
668	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. Kucherepa
announce and reiterate the achievements of national unity amongst the people of Canada, which they claimed were built on rugged foundations which would forever hold. Now that the Liberal party has suffered a defeat at the polls It seems that in the opinion of some of the hon. members of that party this means the end of national unity in our country. If anything, I would say those revealing and startling remarks made by some of the hon. members opposite merely serve to underline the fact that the Conservative party which now forms the government has, as those speaking the truth always will, emerged as a great Canadian party which represents all the provinces and all the groups which constitute this great Canada of ours.
I want to say that our party by virtue of its composition, built as it is on this broad national foundation and having as it does representatives from not only the two great ethnic groups of which some hon. members have spoken but also from other important groups, ethnic and otherwise, will jealously guard the rights of all minorities, big or small, notwithstanding the fact that a particular group may, on occasion, and for quite plausible reasons, support more strongly some other party.
I do not think there is anything remarkable in this regard about the results of the June 10 election. Nine of our ten provinces contributed most of the increase in the number of seats held by the Conservative party in the House of Commons. The people of Canada wanted to change their government, and they voted for a Conservative administration. In so far as the people of Quebec are concerned they did what I consider to be rather a common thing in free elections; they supported what is known in political parlance as "their favourite son", a man who is a great Canadian and who has always commanded a great deal of personal support in his home province, even as some other outstanding hon. members of this house, past and present, have commanded support in other years and in other parts of the country. That man, of course, is the right hon Leader of the Opposition (Mr. St. Laurent).
I believe this is a common condition existing not only in Canada but in other democracies. What *	*s unfortunate for the members opposite
is that right now, at least, there is not one among them who could possibly emulate that distinguished Canadian of whom I have just spoken. Therefore I have every confidence that when the opportunity presents itself the good people of the province of Quebec will join the people of the other nine provinces in supporting, in equal measure, the Conservative party which is today the living symbol of national unity.
I went on to say:
In conclusion I appeal to all hon. members of this house not only to preach national unity but to practice it inside and outside these walls; for i*1?rml,y belleve>
as do most Canadians, that although there is not uniformity in all things amongst us, there is full agreement among Canadians in all those things which unite us.
We have heard some very interesting remarks during the last half hour or so on the question of municipalities and I should like to say something in that regard.


Mr. Speaker:: Order. It being 9.30 o'clock p.m., it is my duty, pursuant to section 5 of standing order 38, to interrupt these proceedings and forthwith put every question necessary to dispose of the main motion.


Mr. Speaker:: I declare the amendment lost. The question is on the main motion. Is it the pleasure of the house to adopt the motion?


Some hon. Members:: Carried.


Paul Joseph James Martin: On division.
And more than five members having risen: Mr. Speaker: Call in the members.
Hon. members may have noticed that I had not called for the yeas and nays on the earlier division but Votes and Proceedings will show them as having been called. I take it there is no objection to that course being followed.


John George Diefenbaker: That the address be engrossed and presented to His Excellency the Governor General by such members of this house as are of the honourable the privy council.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.

Lionel Chevrier: Mr. Speaker, I take it that the business for tomorrow is as was announced last night?


Howard Charles Green: Yes, Mr. Speaker. The first question will be item No. 6 on today's order paper, the motion to add to the standing committees; then item No. 4 on today's order paper, the hospital insurance resolution; then the act to amend the Canada Agricultural Products Standards Act, which appears under introduction of bills on today's order paper; then the resolution concerning the Canadian Farm Loan Act which appears under government notices of motions; and then, finally, the resolution which appears as item No. 5 under government orders dealing with amendments to the Department of Transport Act.


An hon. Member:: All before noon?


[Stage Direction]
It being ten minutes after ten o'clock the house adjourned, without question put, pursuant to standing order.

[Stage Direction]
The following answers, deposited with the Clerk of the house, are printed in the official report of debates pursuant to standing order 39:

Mr. Chevrier: 1.	How much land was expropriated by the St. Lawrence seaway authority on the south shore opposite Montreal between Longueuil and Preville?
2.	How much of this land will be used for (a) seaway purposes; (b) industrial purposes; (c) residential purposes; (d) park, recreational and other purposes?
3.	Will any of this area be landscaped for recreational purposes? If so, how much?
4.	Has a landscape engineer been appointed? If so, when?
5.	Has he made a report to the seaway authority?
6.	Has an agreement been reached between the city of St. Lambert and the seaway authority covering the use of the land expropriated by the seaway authority in front of the city of St. Lambert?
V. Are negotiations with the city still in progress?
Answer by: Hon. George H. Hees (Minister of Transport):
The St. Lawrence seaway authority advises as follows:
1.	Approximately 564 acres of the bed of the river.
2.	(a) Approximately 369 acres; (b) none; (c) none; (d) not yet determined.
3.	No decision has been reached at the present time.
4.	Yes. McFadzean-Everly (Canada) Ltd., landscape architects and land planners, Montreal, P.Q.
5.	Preliminary sketches only.
6.	No.
7.	Yes.


ST. LAWRENCE SEAWAY  TOLLS
Mr. Chevrier: 1.	How many meetings did the St. Lawrence seaway authority and the St. Lawrence seaway development corporation have since the 1st of May, 1957?
2.	When was the last such meeting?
3.	What was discussed at these meetings?
4.	How often did the tolls committee meet in 1957 and 1958?
5.	Who are the present members of the tolls committee. United States and Canada?
6.	Has an agreement been reached on the subject of tolls?
7.	When will the announcement be made?
8.	Will tolls be collected by the St. Lawrence seaway authority on its behalf and that of the St. Lawrence seaway development corporation over the whole seaway?
9.	Will tolls be charged on the Welland canal?
Answer by: Hon. George H. Hees (Minister of Transport):
Questions
The St. Lawrence seaway authority advises as follows:
1.	Five.
2.	February, 1958.
3.	Progress on works in which both entities are concerned.
4.	Sixteen times.
5.	Canadian tolls committee: J. C. Lessard, chairman; G. A. Scott; Col. D. F. Purves.
U.S. tolls committee:	E. Reece Harrill,
chairman; E. A. Bacon; Dr. C. A. Taff.
6.	7, 8 and 9. Answers not available until the recommendations of the Canadian tolls committee are determined.


ST. LAWRENCE SEAWAY  NAVIGATION AIDS
Mr. Chevrier: 1.	Will aids to navigation be required when the St. Lawrence seaway opens to 27-foot navigation in the spring of 1959?
2.	What aids will be required in the various sections of the seaway?
3.	Has any agreement been reached between Canada and the United States in the international section concerning the establishment of aids to navigation and the servicing thereof?
4.	Who will be responsible in Canada for aids to navigation in the international section, the St. Lawrence seaway or the Department of Transport?
5.	Who will be responsible in the United States for aids to navigation in the international section?
6.	What liaison will be established for the operation of aids between the two countries?
Answer by: Hon. George H. Hees (Minister
of Transport):
1.	Yes.
2.	Shore lights, pier lights, and lighted and unlighted steel buoys will be established. Lights in the first two categories that will be necessary after flooding on July 1 have been erected and are ready for operation. The floating aids that can be placed prior to the flooding will also be installed and the balance will be established during and after the flooding process. Some floating aids will be in temporary locations pending completion of the dredging program.
3.	No formal agreement has been made. Each country is building, maintaining and operating its own aids.
4.	Lights on canal structures and their approaches will be the responsibility of the St. Lawrence seaway authority. Aids to navigation will be the responsibility of the Department of Transport.
5.	It is the understanding of the department that, in the United States, responsibility for the construction of fixed aids rests with the United States corps of engineers as an agency of the seaway development corporation. The establishment of all other aids and

Questions
the maintenance of all aids will be the responsibility of the United States coast guard as an agency of the corporation.
6.	The close informal liaison which has existed between the United States coast guard and the marine aids to navigation division of the Department of Transport is being continued.


ST. LAWRENCE SEAWAY-PERSONNEL
Mr. Chevrier: 1.	When the seaway is opened to navigation, will the canals he operated by the Department of Transport or the seaway authority?
2.	How many persons will be required to operate and maintain (a) the St. Lambert lock; (b) the Cote Ste. Catherine lock; (c) the Lower Beau-harnois lock; (d) the Upper Beauharnois lock; (e) the Iroquois canal and lock?
3.	How many of these will be permanent, and how many casual?
4.	How will this personnel be recruited, by the civil service commission or by the seaway authority?
5.	Will consideration be given to the seniority of the present employees of the canals now in existence and will these be assigned to the new positions?
6.	Has a committee been established to consider this problem?
7.	If so, who are the members of this committee?
Answer by: Hon. George H. Hees (Minister
of Transport):
The St. Lawrence seaway authority advises as follows:
1.	In general the main line canals will be operated by the seaway authority.
2.	Proposed establishments not yet finalized.
3.	Answered by No. 2.
4.	The St. Lawrence seaway authority.
5.	Yes, dependent upon qualifications and requirements.
6 and 7. A working group has been established composed of a representative of the seaway authority, of the personnel branch and of the canal services of the Department of Transport.


BRIDGE CONSTRUCTION, CORNWALL, ONT.
Mr. Chevrier: 1.	Are the plans and specifications ready for the new bridge over the north channel of the St. Lawrence river at Cornwall, necessitated by the construction of the St. Lawrence seaway?
2.	By what firm are these plans and specifications prepared, and when was this firm appointed?
3.	What route will the bridge follow?
4.	What will the bridge cost?
5.	How long will it take to construct?
6.	When will tenders be called?
Answer by: Hon. George H. Hees (Minister
of Transport):
The St. Lawrence seaway authority advises as follows:
1. No.
2.	Dr. P. L. Pratley-February 28, 1957.
3.	Via Brookdale avenue in the city of Cornwall, then southerly to Cornwall island.
4.	Preliminary estimate, $6,000,000.
5.	Between two and three years.
6.	After completion of plans and specifications.


ST. LAWRENCE SEAWAY HEADQUARTERS, CORNWALL, ONT.
Mr. Chevrier: 1.	When will the seaway headquarters building at Cornwall be ready for occupation?
2.	What units of the seaway authority will be moved to Cornwall?
3.	What units of the Department of Transport will be moved to the headquarters building in Cornwall?
4.	Will all of the personnel of the Ontario-St. Lawrence canal now housed at Cornwall be moved to the new headquarters building?
5.	In all, how many persons will be moved?
6.	Where will the tolls be collected?
7.	What personnel will be required to collect tolls?
8.	What personnel will be required to administer the new building?
9.	How will they be recruited, by local selection, by the civil service commission, or by the St. Lawrence seaway authority?
Answer by: Hon. George H. Hees (Minister of
Transport):
The St. Lawrence seaway authority advises as follows:
1.	About July 1, 1958.
2.	Head office will continue to be established at Ottawa. Other engineering, operating and administrative staffs (other than those located at canals) will occupy the office building at Cornwall.
3.	4 and 5. Information not yet of record.
6 and 7. Answers not available until the
recommendations of the Canadian tolls committee are determined.
8.	A superintendent, stationary engineers, and cleaning and maintenance services as required.
9.	The St. Lawrence seaway authority.


AIRPORT SURVEYS, CORNWALL, ONT.
Mr. Chevrier: 1.	Have any surveys been made In the vicinity of Cornwall, Ontario, for the establishment of an airport?
2.	If so, how many and what was the date of each survey?
3.	Which site was found to be the most appropriate?
4.	What would be the cost of an airport?
5.	In view of the importance of Cornwall as the centre of the seaway, has the government decided to establish an airport there without cost to the municipality?
6.	Has an item been included in the estimates of the Department of Transport to construct an airport at Cornwall?
7.	If so, how often and on what dates?

Answer by: Hon. George H. Hees (Minister of Transpori):
1.	Yes.
2.	One engineering survey, August 1952; three preliminary investigations in June 1952, July 1954, and September 1954.
3.	The Bonville site.
4.	Not determined.
5.	The government has made the same offer to the municipality that it has made in the
Questions
cases of other comparable airports elsewhere in Canada, namely that the municipality should assume responsibility for acquisition of the land and for operation of the airfield if the government agrees to construct the runways.
6.	Yes.
7.	In 1953/54 and 1954/55 for airport construction, and in 1955/56, 1956/57, 1957/58 and 1958/59 for engineering surveys.
675

Friday, May 30, 1958