1958-07-28

Mr. Speaker:: In view of the announcement in the house on Saturday last by the Prime Minister that Her Most Gracious Majesty the Queen had designated His Royal Highness Prince Charles as Prince of Wales, it appeared to me that it would be appropriate to amend the wording of the prayer for the royal family to give effect to the change in the title of the heir apparent. May I have the approval of the house to the appropriate change, which I took the liberty of making in reading the prayers today?


Some hon. Members:: Agreed.



PUBLIC SERVICE


[Stage Direction]
Hon.	Donald	M.	Fleming (Minister	ofFinance): I should like to make a statement, Mr. Speaker, relating to the provision which the government intends to recommend to parliament at the present session to increase pensions, based	on	length of service,	offormer	members	of	the civil service,	thearmed	forces,	and	the Royal Canadian
Mounted Police, in those cases where the recipient has been retired for a number of years. The proposed provision will also extend to the widows and children of former members of the three groups on a similar basis.
In the course of long personal study of this subject, I have found it one of the most complex problems which I have faced in this portfolio. It would have been the wish of the government to bring this proposal before parliament at an earlier date had the problem admitted of an easier or simpler solution.
Apart from the relatively minor increase which was made in the pensions of certain former members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in 1925, the measure now proposed is unprecedented in Canada in federal legislation dealing with long-service pensions. Prior to 1945 the pensions of the
three groups I have mentioned were such that there was no strong demand for an increase. Since 1946, however, a combination of the rise in the cost of living and in the general salary levels of the three groups in the public service has led to increasing representations not only by retired members of the three groups but by members of the house and the various civil service organizations.
The representations affect pensions related to length of service, and accordingly the present proposal does not affect pensions payable under the Government Employees Compensation Act, the Pension Act, and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act in respect only of disability or death arising from service, nor pensions payable under part IV of the last named act.
There are, in round figures, 23,000 former civil servants or their widows in receipt of pension. Of these 10,000 are over 70 years of age and 6,700 are between the ages of 65 and 70. The government decided, however, that old age pensions and old age assistance should not be taken into account in determining the proposed increases in pensions based on length of service.
A survey which has been recently conducted shows that in most cases the small pensions are attributable to short service. While at times in the past a pension could be paid for less than five years' service, now under the Public Service Superannuation Act the cases where a pension can be paid for such short service have almost disappeared, and the normal pension is payable on retirement for age or disability after a minimum of five years of service, and a widow's pension is payable if her husband had at least five years of service. Thus a minimum pension of 10 per cent of average salary is payable in the case of a civil servant himself or 5 per cent in the case of his widow.
The survey has also demonstrated that, as a result of the general increases in salaries in recent years, persons retiring in this period can receive higher pensions after shorter service than those who retired from the same positions in earlier years with longer service. This situation has naturally caused dissatisfaction.
It does not seem to the government to be fair to the employee with long service to supplement only the very low pensions.
[Stage Direction]
Public Service-Pension Increase Generally speaking this would tend to favour those who have given a relatively brief portion of their working lives to the service of the federal government, or those employees who rendered longer service in quite junior positions.
It is equally clear that a flat percentage increase in all pensions would be inequitable. It would favour those now enjoying the larger pensions, particularly those who retired recently. Moreover, the pensioners who retired ten years ago have a higher claim for an increase in their pensions than those who have been retired more recently with pensions more closely related to the present higher scale of salaries.
On the other hand, if the basis of increase were a flat percentage confined simply to all pensions commencing prior to a determined date, a pensioner retiring immediately prior to that date would have an unjustified advantage over a person retiring immediately thereafter with the same service to his credit.
There is an additional complication to be considered even for those retiring at the same time, because of the fact that there are six different benefit formulae to be considered when determining what increase should be made in the pensions of the three groups under review, namely former civil servants, members of the armed forces and members of the R.C.M.P. Depending upon the time at which the individual affected qualified under the relevant pension statute, he will have received a pension of 2 per cent of a certain salary or average salary over a certain period for each year of service up to 35. This period on which the average salary is based ranges from the most favourable extreme of the final salary in the case of long-time members of the armed forces and the R.C.M.P. to the average salary over the last ten-year period of employment in the case of civil servants. In between these extremes there are four other formulae using the salary for the last year and the average salary over the last three, five and six years of service respectively. The fact that pensions are payable to members of the armed forces and the R.C.M.P. immediately on retirement at an age which may be earlier than the civil service immediate pension age of 60 makes the usual military or R.C.M.P. pension even more valuable than the usual civil service pension.
In the studies which have been made it has been recognized that those whose salary for pension purposes is based on the shorter period of time will retire on pensions more closely related to the level of salaries at the time of retirement than do the ten-year average cases, and so will have gained a greater pension benefit from general salary increases in their last years of employment.

The government has come to the conclusion that the method of adjustment chosen should take account of these factors, otherwise the disparity in pension as among the various groups would become even greater. For this purpose more than one series of adjustment factors has been worked out in relation to the change which has taken place during the period on which the average salary in question is based. This method has the effect of bringing closer together pensions for the same period of service and salary under the different formulae.
After careful study of all the complicated factors involved, the government proposes an increase of a maximum of 32 per cent of the first $2,000 of the pension of those pensioners who retired in 1945 and earlier years. The percentage of increase will be lower for those retiring since 1945. The effect of this graduation in the increase will confine benefit as follows: To those who retired prior to 1953, on the ten-year average formula; to those who retired prior to 1952, on the six-year average formula; to those who retired prior to 1951, on the five-year average formula; to those who retired prior to 1950, on the three-year average formula; to those who retired prior to 1949, on the final year formula; to those who retired prior to 1948, under the final salary formula. This difference in the cut-off dates arises from the fact that those whose pension formula is based on the shorter average salary period have already gained a benefit from that formula in the form of a higher pension as the result of the introduction in the years just before their retirement of general salary increases which helped to a much lesser extent those subject to the longer average salary period.
It is proposed that the increase in the pension shall be confined to pensions not exceeding $3,000 per annum, and that the total of the increase and the pension combined shall not exceed $3,000.
In the case of widows and children the percentage of increase will be that appropriate to the year of the husband's retirement or death while in the service, whichever is applicable, and will be calculated on the first $1,000 of pension for a widow, with corresponding amounts for the children. The increase will be limited, in the case of a widow, to pensions not exceeding $1,500; and in the case of her child to pensions not exceeding $300. In the case of an orphan child the increase will apply on pensions not exceeding $600. In each of these cases the pension and increase combined will not exceed these respective amounts.
It is estimated that the increases will apply to some 15,000 pensioners, including 12,000

former civil servants, 2,500 former members of the armed forces and 600 former members of the R.C.M.P. These figures include the widows of deceased pensioners. The estimated cost of the increase is approximately $3,300,000, for a full year at present.
The government proposes that the increases take effect from July 1. In view of the advanced stage of the present session the government proposes to insert a special item in the further supplementary estimates which will be introduced in parliament at the present session to provide for the payment during the present fiscal year. Further details will be available at that time. It is the government's intention at the next session to introduce legislation to provide continuing authority for these increases. It is expected that the retroactive payments will be available to recipients in the autumn. The precise date will naturally depend on the course and duration of the present session.
In conclusion I should like to express my gratitude to the advisory committee of the Public Service Superannuation Act for the very helpful advice I have received from time to time from that group, which is composed of equal representation from the official and staff sides of the public service.
Hon. L. B. Pearson (Leader of ihe Opposition):: Mr. Speaker, I happen to be a pensioned civil servant, so perhaps in the strict application of the conflict of interest principle it is not appropriate for me to make any comment upon the interesting statement the minister has just made. Nevertheless, I am very sure that all others concerned will have heard this announcement with great pleasure and satisfaction.
I take it from what the minister has said that the action taken by the government does not extend to C.N.R. pensioners, and I would like to ask him whether there is any intention on the part of the government to include this group of pensioners under this scheme at a later time.


Mr. Fleming (Eglinton):: No, Mr. Speaker, this does not include Canadian National Railways pensioners. They, of course, come under the jurisdiction of the Canadian National Railways. This provision applies to three groups, the civil servants, the R.C.M.P. and the armed forces.


Mr. Erhari Regier (Burnaby-Coquitlam):: Mr. Speaker, we in this group remember how for so many long years the former member for Winnipeg North Centre brought the cause of these pensioners to the attention of the government.


Mr. Murphy:: He was not the only one.
Public Service-Pension Increase


Erhart Regier: We also remember reminding a previous minister of finance that, whereas the parliament and the government of Canada were responsible for the fiscal and financial affairs of the nation, they also had a responsibility with respect to the buying power of the pensioners' money.
We remember the former minister of finance saying that if he could find the solution he would be one of the ministerial marvels of the world. I am now hoping that the present Minister of Finance is one of the wonders of the world.
We welcome most heartily the announcement that has been made and, like the leader of the official opposition, we regret very much that the minister has not seen fit at this time to include in this righting of a long-felt wrong the plight of the retired railroad workers as well.



THE BUDGET


Donald Methuen Fleming: Mr. Speaker, may I by leave of the house table, and ask to have printed in today's Votes and Proceedings for the convenience of hon. members, the amendments which it is proposed to introduce in the budget resolutions when they are reached tomorrow?


Some hon. Members:: Agreed.



MOTION FOR PAPERS


[Stage Direction]
Motion No. 27-Mr. Argue:
For a copy of all correspondence exchanged since June 21, 1957, between any member of the provincial governments and any member of the federal government, concerning the federal-provincial tax-sharing agreements.
Donald Methuen Fleming: Subject to the usual reservations as to the consent of the provinces concerned, there is no objection to this motion. I think it is likely that the greater part of the correspondence has already been tabled, but we shall be glad to see whether there is any remaining within the scope of this motion.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.


Mr. G. H. Aiken (Parry Sound-Muskoka) moved:: That, in the opinion of this house, the government should take into consideration the advisability of introducing legislation to authorize the making of loans, jointly with an approved lending institu-
2760	HOUSE OF
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators tion, to tourist resort operators for the purpose of constructing or making capital improvements to tourist accommodation.
He said: Mr. Speaker, the subject of this resolution is of considerable urgency and interest both to the people of this country and to hon. members of the house. I feel that it has received insufficient attention from a large section of the population and, moreover, I think the subject is one which has not been recently discussed in parliament.
Before proceeding to deal with the financial aspect of the resolution, I should like to place the tourist industry in its proper perspective with regard to the national income. As a direct source of foreign money the tourist industry in Canada ranks third after newsprint and wheat. In 1957 we received in Canada no less than $362 million in tourist funds from all sources in connection with the tourist industry. In 1957 the tourist resort industry came second among Canada's industries in terms of receipt of United States dollars. In that year $328 million came to Canada from the United States in connection with the tourist business. The tourist business comes third in receipt of foreign dollars from all sources and second in receipt of United States dollars.
In the third place, the tourist industry is a major source of employment in this country. The indirect sources of employment are much greater than the direct. For that reason we sometimes do not consider that the published figures are correct. If we consider merely those dollars that come into the country and if we consider merely those dollars received by the tourist industry itself we do not get a complete picture, because we must consider all the money that is spent in Canada by tourists in places that are not tourist locations. For instance, we must consider the merchandise they purchase, the money they spend in restaurants and stores and things of that nature to get a complete understanding of the situation.
The tourist economy is important for another reason. It does not require any outlay by the government or any public services. The product involved in the tourist industry, as it were, is the beauty of Canada's scenery and her rich resources. The only thing the government has had to do thus far has been to advertise, and that has been very well done by various government agencies. The tourist industry does not deplete our natural resources. Those who come to visit Canada, for the most part, come to look at our scenery. They take away with them the memory of a holiday spent in beautiful surroundings, but they


take nothing more of a physical nature except those goods they have purchased.
Another feature of this industry is that we do not have to transport any particular product to market. We do not have to do what must be done in connection with wheat and many other products which have to be shipped to some other country. In the case of the tourist industry the people come here to buy the product.
And finally, the tourist industry is something we in Canada have taken for granted for some time, and therefore through neglect we are beginning to lose the position we held in this industry. As to the future of travel, we must bear in mind that travel has developed from a luxury on the North American continent to a way of life. There has been a general increase in wages and a shorter work week, and employees are now granted longer paid holidays. All these things have combined to give the average individual on this continent more time in which to travel and see the world. Properly managed and planned, the tourist industry could and should become Canada's major industry.
I wish to say a few words by way of comparison between Canada's tourist industry and that of the United Kingdom. The tourist industry in the United Kingdom is without question the most important industry of that country. Let us look at Canada for a moment in its relationship to other countries in terms of this industry. Not very long ago Canada used to be the No. 1 country for United States travellers.
We do not need to extol the beauties of our native country. I will have a few words to say about the particular area in which I am interested, and I am sure other members will also wish to mention those in which they are interested. Every province and territory in Canada has many places which can compare with those anywhere else in the world, but in spite of this we are losing business while others are increasing theirs.
To look at some of the figures, Mr. Speaker, in 1948 about 45 per pent of the United States tourist dollar came to Canada. That was only 10 years ago. In 1951 it was down to 35 per cent. In 1952 we commenced to have a trade deficit with the United States in travel account. In dollars Canadians spent $37 million more in the United States in 1952 than United States tourists spent in Canada. In 1956 our percentage of the United States tourist dollar was down to about 25 per cent and our trade deficit in travel was $82 million.
I should like to point out the significance of these figures. We had in 1956 a trade

deficit on travel of approximately $161 million on a world-wide basis. The United States has a population ten times ours, yet Canadians spent many millions of dollars more in the United States than the people of that country spent in Canada. Our 17 million people spent more than they spent in Canada with their population of approximately 170 million.
On the basis of world-wide travel the situation is the same. From 1926 until 1950 we had a world travel credit balance, but since 1951 we have had a travel deficit with all countries of the world. I am pleased to see from the figures that there was a little improvement last year. Our deficit with the United States dropped from $82 million to $75 million. However, taking the whole picture the position remained the same, with a deficit of $161 million with all countries.
I should like to quote for a minute from a publication entitled, "Travel Between Canada and the United States", issued in January, 1958, which gives preliminary figures for 1957. It says:
Expenditures in Canada by travellers from the United States and other countries set a new record in 1957. First estimates indicate that visitors from other countries spent approximately $362 million while travelling in Canada, an increase of $25 million or approximately 7 per cent higher than the previous year. Receipts from residents of the United States advanced some $19 million, due to higher average expenditures per visit for most classifications in addition to an increase in the number of crossings. The aggregate number of visits advanced some 953,000 when compared with 1956. The estimated figure of $328 million spent in Canada by residents of the United States is an all-time record, although residents of countries other than the United States also increased their expenditures on travel in Canada during 1957. Receipts from residents of overseas countries reached a new record of $34 million, an increase of $6 million over the previous record established in 1956.
This indicates that we have had more visitors to Canada during the past year than in previous years. But I quote again from the same document:
The gain in foreign travel expenditures in Canada was accompanied by a more moderate increase in Canadian travel to other countries, particularly to the United States. Canadians spent an estimated $23 million on travel in other countries during the past year, an increase of $25 million over 1956 or approximately 5 per cent. The increase of travel expenditures in the United States amounted to $12 million or some 3 per cent, whereas expenditures on travel to overseas countries advanced some 12 per cent or about $13 million as compared with the previous year.
While our receipts from travel expenditures are increasing, as they naturally will, our expenditures in other countries have also increased. There has been a decrease in the past in certain classifications of travel to this country. As I previously noted, we had 45
28, 1958
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators per cent of the United States tourist dollar in 1948 and now we have less than 25 per cent.
For a moment I should like to look into what I feel are the reasons for this decline. We are losing business from United States tourists to the European market. There seems to be an increase in the number of people who travel overseas from the United States. We are also losing very extensively to the United States home market. Under the small business administration in the United States hotel or resort owners can borrow up to $250,000 for renovating or refurnishing their resorts, the loan being repayable over a period of 10 years at an interest rate of 5 or 6 per cent. By making funds available to the United States home market people there are enabled to improve their accommodation and offer more attractions for their own tourists.
There are also more Canadians going to the United States rather than travelling at home, and I believe the reason is the same. To illustrate the point I should like to read from the proceedings of the committee on travel trends at the 1956 convention of the Canadian tourist association. In the report there is the following:
There is another area where I suspect we are losing ground-
This refers to the loss of tourist business in Canada.
-although it is difficult to secure figures which will prove it. The areas to which I refer may be described as those playground areas immediately south of the border, just south of the border. Not only do these areas attract Canadian tourists and vacationers, but they also intercept much of the business which might otherwise find its way across the border right into Canada. It is with these areas that we must compete, at least in the near future, and to do so is a sizeable task. We must endeavour to match or better them in a type and decor of accommodation, the meals we serve, the hospitality we offer, the prices we charge, the recreational facilities and planned entertainment, and of utmost importance, the quality and quantity or roads of access from border points and between provinces and vacation areas in Canada.
We cannot expect full measure of success until we meet our competition with a product as good as or better than he is offering, nor until this is done, can we expect to receive full value for our advertising money which we spend seeking tourists to come to Canada or to stay in Canada and to spend their vacations here.
I feel, Mr. Speaker, it is no longer sufficient for the tourist industry and for our country to show our visitors nature's great beauties by day, and ask them to sleep in roadside cabins at night. The travelling public now wants the beauties of nature enhanced by modern buildings, neat gardens and conveniences. The short-term stay is increasing as a result of motor travel, and there are
2762	HOUSE OF
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators many more people touring the country staying by night at enjoyable sites, and perhaps only staying one, two or three days. It is to these people that we must offer accommodation which will be comfortable. It is not necessary for such accommodation to be anything more than comfortable. It can be rustic, as long as the tourist feels he has had a good place to stay, good meals and something which he could not get at home. It is only in that way that we can hope to hold the tourist business.
Our tourist operators are beginning to realize this difficulty. They want to modernize their accommodation. Recently the Canadian tourist association presented a brief to the Minister of Finance containing recommendations for the establishment of a fund similar to that which I am proposing today. Parts of this brief are very pertinent to this subject, so I should like to read a few paragraphs. These paragraphs deal entirely with the need of tourist operators for assistance in improving their plant, equipment and buildings. This is the quotation:
The tourist industry is composed mainly of small businesses. While the few larger establishments, such as the hotels and lodges of the transportation companies, are well known, the greater percentage of restaurants and accommodation establishments are small. Many are family enterprises.
Most of Canada's hotels, resorts and camps are 30, 40 and 50 years old. They were built when our national standard of living was not as high as it is today, when many hotels were not equipped with private baths or even running water in the rooms. At that time, the rooms were much smaller and were not furnished as comfortably as the travelling public expect and demand today.
Today's travellers are also demanding restaurants with the best decor, service and food. To meet this demand the modern restaurant must invest heavily in comfortable furnishings and labour-saving and sanitary equipment.
Most visitors come to Canada by automobile, and this mode of travel creates a greater demand for roadside accommodation of the highest quality. Although many motels have been built in recent years, a substantial percentage of Canada's motels and cabins need to be improved and enlarged.
The expansion and improvement of Canada's tourist establishments, which includes resorts, restaurants, hotels, motels and camps is urgently required. At present, the facilities which are inadequate and outmoded are being compared unfavourably with the more modern establishments which have been built in other countries in the past few years.
I believe that quotation sets out the situation so far as our business in Canada is concerned. Hon. members may say, if these people want to stay in business, what is wrong with them? Why are they not managing? Why are they not making sufficient income so the banks will assist them by way of loans? The answer is one of finances, and it is a rather basic problem.
In the first place, capital improvements cannot be made by these operators from the


moneys received during a season's operations. It is true that the establishments which have been making money in the past few years have been able to go to the bank in the spring and secure a loan to cover the cost of their summer improvements. In this way they can paint up and perhaps build a new fireplace, improve the dining room and so on. Then in the fall, when the season is over, they can repay the bank and have a little bit over on which to live during the winter. I am referring to the smaller establishments. The larger ones do not have this trouble because they are well established and have adequate finances behind them.
You may ask why the mortgage companies will not help these people. I feel there are two basic reasons. In the first place, the tourist business is a seasonal operation and is not classed as a good security or as a trust security by the mortgage companies. It is for this reason that a trust company or a mortgage company which handles trust funds cannot lend money to the tourist operators.
The reason for this is comparatively simple. A lot of these businesses are only as good as the man who operates them. He may have sufficient buildings and sufficient equipment, but if he is not a good operator he will lose money. While the mortgage companies may give a loan on a larger, well established business, when it comes to a smaller one these companies turn him down. As those with legal experience know, the terms of their mortgages do not prevent the owner from selling his property, provided the new purchaser undertakes payment. The mortgage is given, therefore, on the security of the land and buildings that the company finds there. If the company have to rely also on the integrity of the operator they may find themselves in difficulty. They are, therefore, very loath to grant loans to these people because of the fear that the operator, getting that much cash out of his business, may sell subject to the mortgage and someone could take over who might not operate the business in a satisfactory manner.
The mortgage companies do not like trouble, regardless of what some people may think. If they feel that they may run into difficulty on a loan, they would rather not grant it. This is what has happened on a good many of our smaller and medium-sized tourist businesses in Canada. I would say that the operators are completely unable to make improvements to their resorts because the bank can only lend money for the season, a six-month period, and the mortgage or trust company is unable to grant mortgages. These companies are not interested in whether or not this is a good thing for

Canada, and you cannot blame them because, after all, they are in business to make money. Our people who want mortgage money just cannot get it.
Many of these people realize that they have to make improvements. Perhaps they have some roadside cabins or a hotel or restaurant, the standard of which they would like to improve. So they make the effort; they go around from the banks to the mortgage companies trying to borrow money, and they cannot get it. So finally they decide, "Well, if I can't get the money I will just stay on here and get whatever I can out of this business, and not spend any money on it at all". As a result they leave their accommodation in the best condition in which they can put it and they get the odd three or four dollars from somebody who gets stuck on a heavy week end and finds there is no place to go.
I think that is a very bad advertisement for our country. There are not many of these people who wilfully withhold repairs. Most of them would like to make them but 'they cannot get the money. They just have to hang on. I feel that that is the basic cause of a good deal of our loss of the tourist industry. We are losing to overseas markets. We are losing to the United States. Those people are providing accommodation that people will stay in.
I should now like to speak for just a moment in connection with the financial proposal I have put forward in this motion. I am not suggesting, Mr. Speaker, that the form in which the motion is put forward is the final and absolute answer to the difficulty. After the subject has been discussed today and after it has been given some consideration it may be felt that there is some different way in which to help the tourist operators. But the proposition I should like to put forward is that the government give assistance to these people by somewhat the same method as national housing loans are made, where the lending company makes the loan and a certain proportion of the loan is guaranteed for repayment by the government.
This procedure would not cause any outlay in government funds until the point where they were called upon to make good the guarantee on a proposition which had become a loss. This is one proposal, and I think probably it is the best one, because the people who are willing to make these loans will go only so far. Even if they agree to make a loan they will go so far and they will say "Beyond that point we will not go".
The percentage in respect of the average house loan, I would say, in the case of the mortgage company will run anywhere between 40 per cent and 60 per cent of the
28. 1958
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators value of the residential property. But when it comes down to tourist property, if they lend at all it is not only at a high rate but the amount they will lend is very little more than 25 per cent of the value they place on the property. I would feel that the industry could be assisted if the mortgage companies were to make these advances in the percentage to what they would normally make if they were homes and if repayment could be guaranteed by the government.
Other propositions have been put forward to the government, Mr. Speaker. In 1956 the hotel association of Canada submitted a brief to the banking and commerce committee of the house, and at that time they suggested an amendment to the Industrial Development Bank Act by which the tourist business would be classed as an industry and some of the money available under the Industrial Development Bank Act could be given to the tourist industry. That is one suggestion.
This year, in 1958, the Canadian tourist association has suggested a tourist establishment improvement loan act. That is the suggestion from which I read a few moments ago. The tourist association would limit the loans to the improvement, replacement or expansion of existing resorts, restaurants, hotels, motels and camps. I stress the word "existing". Their proposal is that money should not be advanced to a new business. Their reasoning is that those who are in the tourist business and who have been reasonably successful in it will be able to take advantage of government loans and improve their properties and carry on. They suggest that the loss on such a project would be small, because those people who are in the business and who know it-and they admit that it is a seasonal business dependent on weather and a great many other factors-[DOT] can meet these conditions and know what to expect.
Of course we must understand that the Canadian tourist association is made up of associations already in existence, and that they are putting this suggestion forward on the basis that those in existence are the only people who can properly operate. I am not sure that I would be prepared to go all the way with that suggestion. However, there is some need for discretion and direction in the way the loans are made. They cannot be made to any person who decides he wants to go into the tourist business. It is too dangerous, risky and seasonal. When such a loan is made they must be satisfied that the person who is going to take it out can make the business pay under normal operating conditions.
That is the proposition that I intended to put forward, Mr. Speaker. To be fair, I think I should mention some of the objections to it,

Loans to Tourist Resort Operators and there have been objections. If there had not been objections the legislation would have been put through years ago.
The first objection that has been suggested to me is that if the operators cannot make sufficient money to run their business, why should the government step in and help them? In other words, if this is not a paying business why do they need help, and why should we spend public money to give it to them?
I think I have covered the answer. My answer to that question is first that the tourist business is of importance to Canada. The government plays very little part in the tourist business except to advertise it, but it is of very great importance in connection with our foreign dollars. That is the first answer. The second thing is that these people are in an unusual classification by reason of the type of business in which they are engaged. By and large they make money. If they did not make money there would not be so many of them going to Florida and setting up the adverse tourist balance that we already have. I do not think it is those people whom we need to help; I feel it is the smaller person who is struggling with a small business.
There is the second objection I have heard, namely that there are too many government subsidies, that everybody is getting a subsidy from the national treasury. Of course that is a very good answer. As far as I am personally concerned I think the less we interfere with private business, the better it is. To that extent I would agree with the objection. But again, here is a class of people who are, in effect, working for the government to bring money into the country. In so doing I feel that they merit some assistance, quite aside from the fact that they come third as a national income producer.
The third thing I should like to mention as an objection I have heard is this. I have read such objections in the newspapers and in reviews of this situation in other types of publications. It is said that this is a responsibility of the provinces rather than of the federal government.
The tourist business as it relates to a particular province has been very closely guarded by that province; for instance, the provinces do a certain amount of licensing and I know that in Ontario, for example, they have set up an act and a system of inspection which are intended to maintain standards. But I submit that this is a national problem; it is a problem which relates not to this or that province but to the whole country. A tourist coming to Ontario will probably go back to one of the United States or will go to Quebec or another province, and I think these people should be encouraged to stay in this country.

In this connection I would like to raise a few points respecting regulations in some of the provinces. In some provinces a tourist resort operator is told, "You will have to build new buildings, your buildings do not come up to standard. You will have to tear these down because we will not allow you to use them; they are in too bad shape." It is very difficult for a person to be placed in the position of being told he cannot stay in business, yet he cannot get any help. He is told, "You will have to fend for yourself or go out of business." Perhaps in some cases if his business is that bad it is as well that he go out of business, but a great proportion of such operators could carry on and keep their plant in good condition if they were given some assistance. I feel this is a joint responsibility between the federal and provincial governments, and that if some thinking were given to the matter along these lines it might produce beneficial results.
In conclusion I would like to say a few words about my particular riding and my own interest in this subject. While I have spoken in the house several times I have never made what might be called my maiden speech, because I have never had an opportunity to extol the virtues of Parry Sound and the Muskoka area. I would just like to say that the area which I represent includes all of the district of Parry Sound, all of the district of Muskoka and a major portion of Algonquin park.
It would be impossible to mention all the beautiful sections of this country lying between the Loring, Restoule, French river and lake Nipissing areas in the north to the Kahshe and Sparrow lake districts in the south, from the Georgian bay coast on the west to most of the Algonquin provincial park in the east. Georgian bay is, of course, one of the premiere tourist attractions in Canada, particularly for those interested in boating, and Algonquin park needs little introduction to anyone in this house. My riding also includes the Muskoka lakes chain, the lake of Bays and the Magnetawan river system, and thousands of smaller lakes and rivers in the tourist districts. It also includes the Parry Sound harbour area which has a rather unusual potential as a seaway port; but the importance of the area is shown in the fact that the national tourist industry is extremely well represented there. Mr. Dalton J. Caswell, the president of the hotel association of Canada, Mr. Ted Wright, president of the association of tourist resorts of Ontario, and Mr. George A. Martin, director of the Canadian tourist association, all operate resorts in the Parry Sound or Muskoka districts.


Mr. Speaker:: I am sorry to interrupt the hon. member but his time has expired.


Mr. W. L. Houck (Niagara Falls):: Mr. Speaker, I would indeed be remiss if at the very outset I did not say a word of congratulation to the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka for bringing in this notice of motion. I also congratulate him upon his well-chosen and well-delivered words which contain a lot of common sense and recommendations which I trust will be considered by this government. I also hope the government will take quick and justifiable action, and that the requests made will be granted as soon as possible.
Naturally, as a member of this house coming from Niagara Falls, which is the greatest tourist centre in the Dominion of Canada and indeed in the whole world, it might be expected that I would say something on this subject. As I have often said before, we are not jealous or selfish in any respect in my constituency. We like to share Niagara falls with the rest of the world, but we do appreciate its beauty as do our many visitors. In fact I had a dream about Niagara falls recently, and in it I was going up the steps to meet St. Peter-if a politician ever does get up the steps to meet St. Peter -and St. Peter asked me, "Houck, where do you come from?" I told him that I came from Niagara Falls and he said, "That is a very beautiful place, and I don't think you are going to like it here."
The hon. member for Burnaby-Coquitlam, spoke about the Minister of Finance being one of the wonders of the world, but I would like to point out that we are known as one of the wonders of the world at Niagara Falls, and we would have to take that fact into due consideration before we would allow the minister's name to be added to the list. I think we are justifiably proud of the fact that the Princess Margaret has been fit to select Niagara Falls as one of the few places she will visit, and she will be there on Friday next. We are also very glad to know the Minister without Portfolio from Greenwood (Mr. Macdonnell) will accompany the princess when she visits Niagara Falls at that time.
As the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka has so ably stated, the Canadian tourist association has requested the Minister of Finance to submit to parliament a bill to establish a tourist establishment improve-rhent loan act, but I would like to say that I think this title is cumbersome though the request is pithy. I think the government at present in power should act quickly and should see what the association wants. I believe the requests made are reasonable
28, 1958
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators and would benefit not only the people catering to the tourist industry but the Canadian economy as a whole.
As was pointed out by the previous speaker, tourism is a major industry in our dominion, and I would like to emphasize the point made in the association's brief that only wheat and newsprint bring more money to this country than do our tourists. Furthermore, only newsprint brings more money to Canada from the United States than does the tourist industry. Tourism is big business in this country, but it is not as strong as it should be because all the people in this industry do not operate the sort of establishment which builds business. If they hope to improve their plants they must charge stiffer prices, which would mean discouraging business. The answer so far as I can see, and from what the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka said in this regard, would be a business loan. Such a loan, however, is generally difficult to obtain except at high interest rates.
I do not think the association is asking for a hand-out, but it does need a source from which it might borrow money-money which will be repaid but over a longer period and at easier interest rates. It is not asking for subsidization, but it does need help to improve facilities in order to attract more visitors, and that is what we want. We want to keep more Canadians from spending their money abroad, which is something they have been doing rather recklessly in recent years.
All this is simply good business for Canada. Wherever people travel they will buy, and that is why businessmen of all kinds in Canada stand to gain in terms of larger markets for their products if Canadians as well as overseas visitors are encouraged to travel in our dominion. If people do their travelling in this country this is where they will do their purchasing; it is as simple as that. There is a little-tapped source for greater prosperity in the fact that most Canadians still have not seen too much of their own country. Until recently more than one quarter of all adult Canadians had never seen any province beyond their own, yet two thirds of these same people had visited the United States.
Actually Canadians are the world's greatest travellers, and per capita they spend far more on travel outside their own country than do the people of any other nation. If we divide $441 million spent by Canadians outside Canada last year among 16 million, our population, we arrive at a figure of about $20.50 a head. Take the estimated billion and a half which Americans spend outside the United States and divide that by

Loans to Tourist Resort Operators the population of the United States, and the figure works out to something less than $10 a head.
Of the $441 million mentioned as Canadian expenditure outside Canada, $361 million represented the amount spent in the United States alone. Of this sum, $69 million represented purchases declared under the $100 customs exemption privilege for Canadians returning to Canada after an absence of 48 hours. This is actually a smaller percentage spent on duty free tourist imports than in previous years.
One reason for the popularity of foreign travel is, of course, advertising. It is becoming more and more apparent that at least in some parts of this country Canadians represent the fastest growing travel market in the world. For example, there are over 60 travel agencies in the city of Toronto, far more than can be found in a city of the same size in the United States. Cleveland, which is bigger than Toronto, had at the latest count only 23 travel agencies. While these travel merchants do help to sell Canada to Canadians, a greater part of their efforts must necessarily result in the sale of trips to far away places. This is not simply because commissions are greater on world cruises and flights to Florida than on smaller domestic tours, but also because the promoters of far away areas are very conscious of Canadian population centres as a source of tourist visitors and do everything in their power to help travel agents, transportation companies and other travel salesmen to send people their way.
As a result of years, perhaps decades, of promotion the trip abroad has been invested for Canadians with an aura of glamour. Many parts of Canada have glamour too, but no one has troubled to develop it in the minds of Canadians themselves. The Canadian government spends a million dollars or so on advertising to encourage United States residents to visit Canada's vacation attractions. In addition the provincial governments among them spend about another two million dollars. Of these provincial travel promotion dollars, four out of five are spent in the United States. Americans and others are being made aware by conscious effort of the pleasure and virtue of visiting Canada and knowing Canada better, but Canadians themselves are not. The fact that more than 28 million visits to Canada are made annually, seven or eight million of them for extended periods, attests rather obviously to the fact that we do have very real attractions for tourists. It is simply that we are not conscious of them ourselves.

An impressive example of what tourism can mean to Canadian industry was recently given to the Pembroke, Ontario, Kiwanis club by C.T.A. president W. Gordon Wood. Speaking on April 28 Mr. Wood said:
About 7,500,000 Americans came into Canada by car to stay for more than two days last year. If each one of these visitors had been induced to remain just another 15 or 20 minutes to buy a fried egg sandwich, they would have consumed an extra 625,000 dozen eggs, 750,000 loaves of bread and 120,000 pounds of butter.
Don't ever let a farmer say that the tourist industry does not mean anything to him. Tourism benefits everybody.
Then the Minister of Finance, and the minister of northern affairs spoke at the tourist convention held in Ottawa in 1957 and made some very encouraging remarks to that convention to the effect that they, in their official positions, would do anything they could to help the tourist business in Canada; that they realized the obstacles the industry had to face and felt that the industry should be encouraged, and that this encouragement should be supported by some definite action.
In dollar volume, tourism is Canada's third largest industry. It is big business, and it is the aim of the C.T.A. to make it bigger business. No dollar gets into circulation as quickly as the tourist dollar, which is distributed over and over again until it reaches everyone's pocketbook. The wholesaler, distributor, banker, jobber and manufacturer, the butcher, baker and, yes, even the undertaker, benefit from travel, whether from within or without Canada. Tourists add to our tax collections. This means better roads, better schools and a better estate for all Canadians.
And let me tell hon. members that no business is as furiously competitive as the international travel market. The world is now living on one Main street. No land is remote any more. To meet this competition Canada must increase her promotion and improve her plant. The small operators in the tourist business cannot do this by themselves. In Great Britain bankers, industrialists and businessmen have thrown their weight behind the travel industry. Tourists now earn more dollars for Britain than any other business. But Canada, despite its proximity to the world's richest nation, is losing its share of the travel market, as the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka so rightly pointed out.
I wish to add that in my opinion the Canadian tourist association was right when it asked the government of Canada to take action which would relieve the Canadian tourist industry of the very serious disability caused by the lack of financial credit, and thus make it possible for our tourist industry, through expansion and modernization, to

compete effectively in the world tourist market. In its request for assistance the C.T.A. submitted three points for consideration with regard to the travel industry, as follows:
1.	Through travel from other countries it is the source of new found money which creates additional commerce and employment in Canada.
2.	An efficient, attractive tourist "plant" in this country can hold travelling Canadians in Canada and keep in circulation here money which would otherwise be lured abroad.
3.	Travel by Canadians within Canada promotes a deeper understanding of our own country and a greater appreciation of our land and our rich heritage, and it fosters national unity.
The association also pointed out to the cabinet that the important addition made to Canada's wealth from tourist income is unusual in three ways:
1.	It causes very little depletion in our natural resources.
2.	It sells our goods and services without our having to pay the cost of transporting them to market. The "market" pays its own way here.
3.	It benefits almost every phase of our general economy.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I should just like to place a few figures on the record. In 1951 the average spending per person per trip was just under $49. In 1952 that expenditure increased to $62.25, and today it is almost $70. One thing is very important. In order to increase the success of our tourist business we must increase the length of time tourists spend in our country. Some 75 per cent of our tourists spend less than four days here, yet about 73 per cent of our visitors have between 14 and 20 days annual vacation.
Only 10 per cent of our visitors spend from two to three weeks in this country. If we could only induce those who at present spend only one day with us to increase their stay by two more days, it would increase our tourist business by at least 15 per cent. A survey shows that out of the United States tourist dollar 11.6 cents is spent on gas and oil, car repairs and transportation generally; 49.4 cents is spent on accommodation and food; 35 cents is spent on consumer purchases, and 7 cents on licences for fishing and hunting, boats, and so on.
Mr. Speaker, I am very serious about the point I am about to make now, and I think I have a right to bring up this subject. I have often heard it said by Canadians-and I think it is to be regretted that it has been said-that "the Yanks" are crude and boastful and that the United States opinion of us is similar. Nothing can be further from the truth. Generalities are always dangerous and usually founded on half-truths from unreliable sources; certainly they are ill-considered opinion. I am sure that every clear-cut, right-thinking Canadian agrees with me that
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators such statements about our friends from the great republic are utter nonsense. Most Canadians like the people of the United States, and I can assure you that most Americans have a high regard for us as well.
Disraeli once said over 100 years ago, "It is much easier to be critical than to be correct." He also said that individualities may form communities but it is institutions alone that create a nation. I have found through my experience in Niagara Falls in talking to tourists that one of the things our United States visitors complain most about is that in certain sections of our country we are too much Americanized. On many and many an occasion I have heard it said that some Canadian businessmen fly the American stars and stripes on every occasion in order, as they think, to lure the United States trade.
Nothing could be farther from the truth. The reason many people visit the United States or Canada is not that they want to see the same things they could walk down their own main street and see but they want to see Canadians as they live, as they act, as they work and as they really are. I am for things Canadian. To me a Canadian is a person of manners and people with manners do not go around insulting their neighbours, let alone their best customers.
The United States government is certainly to be congratulated because with its recent customs exemptions it has been doing everything possible to assist our tourist industry. United States residents may now take back, once every 31 days, merchandise for personal or household use to the value of $200, duty and tax free, provided that resident has remained in Canada more than 48 hours. An additional exemption of $300, which makes a total of $500 duty and tax free, is allowed once every six months if the resident has been in Canada more than 12 days.
Residents of the United States visiting Canada for less than 48 hours may take back, for personal or household use, merchandise to the value of $10, duty and tax free. Such exemptions must not include more than 50 cigarettes, 10 cigars, one quarter pound of manufactured tobacco, four ounces of alcoholic beverages or four ounces of alcoholic perfumes, whatever that might be. Gift packages may also be sent to the United States if they are plainly marked "gift" and the value indicated if the aggregate value of the articles received by a person in one day does not exceed $10.
The hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka spoke about his riding, and I should like to say a few words about my riding and my experience with tourist
2768	HOUSE OF
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators operators in that area. In the first place, many tourist operators have a short season, with a few exceptions who operate all year round and who generally have some connection or work in a commercial trade to keep them going. Most of the tourist operators in Niagara Falls calculate their season from May 1 to November 1. They reason that if they have not made any money by then they will not make any at all. Naturally, as was pointed out by the hon. member who introduced the resolution, the farther north you go the shorter the season, unless the operators there promote such activities as skiing.
We normally figure that about 6 million people visit Niagara Falls during the year, including those attending conventions. The regrettable fact about this is that only about 10 per cent of these 6 million visitors to Niagara Falls remain overnight. In other words, I do not think we need any more people to visit Niagara Falls, but we should do and are doing everything possible to persuade these people to come and stay overnight. That is where the actual money is, and that is when it reaches the local merchants.
Using all available accommodation in Niagara Falls we can bed down about 7,000 people each night, but I must admit that one of our biggest headaches is the provision of more modern accommodation. It is true that within the past 10 years tourist accommodation has grown in our city by nearly 80 per cent, but I am sorry to say there are still many establishments which could or should be torn down and replaced by up to date services. It is also true that the owners of such establishments spent every cent they could get while they were in the money instead of laying it away for replacements. In the meantime the newer establishments which have been erected have so many improvements that the cost for each new unit runs from $6,000 to $10,000, including equipment, whereas originally some of the cabins would have cost perhaps less than $1,000 had they been constructed 10 years ago or more.
Many of the tourist establishments have good locations but poor conveniences, and these would be the ones which might utilize any loan provision. Some of our up to date motels in Niagara Falls could be greatly improved or extended if more money were available to them. Normally it takes a tourist establishment from three to five years before it begins to get repeat business, and these three to five years are the danger years. Certainly the industrial development bank does a good job for industry and a similar


plan for tourism might be feasible, though it is my belief that the controls would have to be pretty well defined.
In the case of industry there is usually a past history which could be used as a guide, but in the case of a tourist establishment the tourist business is relatively too new to enable one to design the same kind of code. Unfortunately many of the people entering the tourist business have had no experience and have never demonstrated an ability to conduct a motel on a businesslike basis. They would be the greatest headache of the government in considering a tourist loan program. Certainly with the federal and other levels of government making grants and other provisions for municipal development such as those for hospitals, education, etc., there is no reason in the world why this government should not consider making grants to the tourist industry, as it is one of the most economical to operate.
This year in Niagara Falls has been an unusual one from our standpoint. Our chamber of commerce reception office and that of the Ontario government has received fewer inquiries over the counter than in previous years. Mail inquiries are also down to some extent, though not as much as personal inquiries. In spite of this, however, the bridge figures are higher and cars entering the park are more numerous than last year. One can enter the park on almost any day during the tourist season and find cars bearing license plates from every state in the United States and every province in Canada.
This year people seem to be skimping on meals, the purchase of souvenirs, etc., but interestingly enough-and at the same time difficult to understand-our most expensive overnight accommodation seems to be at a premium. We in Niagara Falls have increased the tempo of our publicity and have attempted to advertise our more up to date establishments. Perhaps because of the fact that we are a tourist centre in Niagara Falls, private capital would be easier to obtain than in the northern areas.
I wish now to sum up the remarks I have made. I would reiterate that in the first place the tourist business is much more fickle and much more difficult to assess than is ordinary industry. It depends upon location, the services provided, unemployment and other factors which are not so important with respect to regular industry.
In the second place, if the government establishes a loan system a person who applies for assistance should have some record of a successful business operation, either as a tourist operator or in some related line.

In the third place, there is a great demand for improved facilities, and although people may seem to skimp on some expenses they do appear to want modern, comfortable accommodation.
In the fourth place, the tourist business in Canada generally needs improvement in order to successfully compete with our competitors in various other countries. I would remind the house, though, that much improvement could be shown in other fields as well, such as courtesy and meals.
In the fifth place, I would remind hon. members that the tourist industry is one of the cheapest to operate, yet is a very lucrative source of income for the entire country.
May I say, as I said at the beginning, that I hope this government will take cognizance of the motion presented so well today by the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka. I trust it will be only a matter of a short space of time until we will hear it announced that the government will extend this assistance to an industry which so greatly requires it. I would remind hon. gentlemen opposite that the government has boasted that it would lend assistance to small business. Tourism is a big business, but it relates to and affects 90 per cent of the small businesses in this country. If the government will come to the assistance of the tourist industry many small businesses will be helped, and the Canadian economy will receive an uplift as well. I remember my leader's platform in the last campaign, that we would help small business as much as possible. This is one of the things we would have done. Therefore I plead with the government to give some recognition to what has been said by the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka (Mr. Aiken). Let us not talk out the motion but rather let us have action by the government.


Mr. A. R. Smith (Calgary South):: Mr. Speaker, I join with the hon. member for Niagara Falls (Mr. Houck) in congratulating the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka (Mr. Aiken) for bringing this motion before us. It is often difficult to avoid a repetition in the house when there is a division of opinion but it is almost impossible to avoid repetition when we are apparently in complete accord and, perhaps more important, when some of us have done our homework from the same general report for which I think we should thank the Canadian tourist association.
I should like at this particular time, because I think it is appropriate when a great many people are returning from their holidays, to add a word or two not by way of statistical evidence but as to the general
28, 1958	2769
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators need, so ably put forward by my good friend, the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka. I think that perhaps I would not be accused of repetition if I were to accept as read his case for the necessity for a motion and eventually legislation of this type, but rather deal with the forecast of the potential that we may expect yet even this year and what we may anticipate as well in the years to come.
The fact that we may be losing part of our opportunity to develop this industry has been placed before us in no uncertain terms. In Great Britain the tourist industry is regarded as its most important. In the United States, as has been stated, it is second and in the case of Canada it is exceeded in gross dollars only by wheat and agriculture. Forecasts of what we may expect present an even more interesting comparison in that this year it is anticipated that 2.6 million carloads of United States visitors alone will stay more than 48 hours in Canada and will spend some $350 million on goods and services. In my own city of Calgary it was estimated that in a 90-day period recently they spent some $5 million in that growing centre of the tourist industry. In addition it is anticipated that this year transportation companies will spend another $4 million in advertising and promoting the tourist industry. The government of Canada already has an appropriation of slightly over $1.2 million for the purpose of advertising the advantages of Canada to anyone who wishes to visit our country as a tourist.
The question before us, Mr. Speaker, is how we can best back up that investment, for I think we will have to concede that there is no point in spending this amount of money if we are not prepared first of all to accept the challenge that competition is growing stronger for the tourist dollar throughout the world and, second, that it is no longer sufficient for us simply to make use of posters in a number of countries pointing out the advantages to be gained by visiting Canada unless we are able to provide the entertainment and type of visit these people are going to expect.
We have made a great deal of headway. At long last most of our provinces have recognized the need for improved roads. Many of our provinces have at long last recognized that social changes require more lenient liquor privileges. Many of our provinces have recognized the need for more uniformity in traffic signs and signals. So we come down to the last problem, that of the accommodation plant, whether it be one of the 3,000 motels or whether it be one of the major hotels in our hotel system which house the people who come to our country.

Loans to Tourist Resort Operators
It has been shown that to put up a motel based on minimum standards and with perhaps 10 to 12 rooms requires an investment of something in the order of $100,000 or about $6,000 to $8,000 per unit. You can find any number of requests at the chartered banks by individual businessmen and women who have applied for loans either on a short or long term basis and have been refused or had their requests only partially granted because of the limiting factor that the tourist industry has been considered to be only a seasonal industry. The limitation imposed by the chartered banks is no fault of theirs but is one of the requirements under which they are permitted to operate but nonetheless the limitation prevents these individual businessmen and women not only from building and reconstructing but from improving the facilities they now have.
There are, of course, a variety of methods by which the problem I now present can be solved. They have been enunciated by the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka. The generality of the resolution refers to one method. A system by which we can create wider or more generous provisions for the chartered banks so far as lending is concerned is another. A third, which has been suggested on many occasions, is the utilization of the industrial bank. I think that in principle most members will agree that the industrial bank should deal with the larger borrower, one who is undertaking something of a more substantial nature than an individual hotel or motel.
I am going to leave the case for improving the plant or facilities for a moment to introduce a new thought and to take some of the responsibility for improving the facilities and the methods by which we attract people to Canada off the shoulders of the government and place it on the shoulders of the operators themselves and, in fact, the Canadian public at large. I think that most of us who have looked at this motion have regarded it favourably but with this reservation. How far is the government expected to go in underwriting, subsidizing, supporting financially, giving outright grants to or interfering with a particular business or industry? I am one of those who believe that regardless of political party we are inclined to go too far in this day and age in endeavouring to provide assistance to bail out people, assistance which was never intended to be within the means of the free enterprise system under which we live today.
I think where you find the line of demarcation, and this is the reason that I can lend unqualified support to this motion, is that the government should give consideration

to helping those who are prepared to help themselves on the basis that this money will be returned with interest, but most important on the basis of creating a better understanding between Canadians and of providing facilities which, in themselves, are going to create increased revenues within Canada which will circulate within Canada. All this will build up, as has been pointed out, the second most important industry in our country, and these are firm bases for support of this motion.
I do not not wish to deviate from the point I want to make here. This is not the responsibility of the government alone. We find many of our operators who regard the tourist as something essential only to have a bed occupied, and can hardly wait to have the occupant replaced by yet another tourist in order to collect yet another fee. Fortunately these people are in the minority. Too often we find the services or facilities which are offered are inclined to be restrictive, and not because of the shortage of income. Too often our own Canadian people, and we are no exception in this regard amongst the other countries in the world, are inclined not to realize that they, as individuals, benefit from every tourist who comes to Canada. The moneys which are given directly to the tourist industry filter back into the pockets of the ordinary citizen. The principle of making the tourist welcome so that he will want to come back is still, in my opinion, in relation to this motion the most important quality that we will have to instil into Canadians.
Now, I have had my share of opportunity to travel throughout Canada. In the context in which I have already spoken, one of the most important areas in which we can improve this industry is by showing some imagination. We have developed a number of centres which contain tourist attractions, Muskoka, Niagara Falls, the Calgary Stampede, the great Shakespearean festival at Stratford, the great areas of the maritimes. These centres add much to the imagination of Canadians who realize that they are indeed lucrative sources of income. We, in Calgary as an example, some years ago introduced the white hat. Unfortunately, the other areas of Canada with less imagination have also seen fit to adopt it as their national headgear. Anybody west of the great lakes today is referred to as a Calgarian, regardless of whether or not he wears a white hat, but invariably he does. I think the point I would make is that imagination and initiative to develop ideas, to develop entertainment and attractions, must come from the people themselves so that we will establish what has been described heretofore as a national character.

The people from Europe and the United States do not come to Canada to see us copy a particular type of individual or type of country; they expect we will be different. They expect to see something that will identify us as Canadians and not as a carbon copy of any other country. I suggest that one of the most important things towards which the Canadian tourist association has been working has been not only the improvement of the plant and its operations, but also the frame of mind in which Canadians would recognize the importance of this industry to their own welfare as such they can feel they are a part of this industry. As I said at the outset, we should make the tourist want to come back.
The motion calls for an improved system of providing loans, and I had intended to go into the method by which this could be done. However, that has been so ably covered by the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka that my remarks would only be superfluous. Let me say that there is another area, that of the larger institution in the larger centre which has a potential to draw the tourist and which must also be given consideration. It could come within the confines of this motion, but perhaps it might be more adapted to a widening of the provisions of the industrial bank. Today, Mr. Speaker, I received from the Olympic development committee of my city of Calgary an interim submission to the government of Canada requesting the Canadian amateur athletic association to ask for the winter Olympic games in 1968 to be held in the Banff, Lake Louise and Calgary area.
The potential here is almost unlimited. It will require a capital investment of some size, largely to accommodate the very substantial number of competitors and visitors who would attend such an attraction. One only has to look at the city of Vancouver and the investment of half a million dollars put into the British empire games by the government to realize how important it is to the tourist industry of Canada to lend some support to an occasion of this nature. This group, the Calgary Olympic development committee, have estimated that there will be 2,000 officials; that accommodation for about 100,000 people will be required, and improvements to the facilities not only in Banff but in Lake Louise will require a substantial capital investment.
They point out that only once before have the winter Olympics ever been held on this continent. They also are very conscious of the fact that wherever any form of Olympic games have been held it immediately becomes a great centre for the tourist industry in future years. So, I commend this request
28, 1958
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators by this group, recognizing the advantages that will be gained if this undertaking receives the support of the government, and also accepting the fact that support has already been given to it by the province of Alberta and the municipalities concerned.
I come to the final point which was introduced by the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka, the case for the improvement of plant, which is all that he has placed before us in this resolution. He has emphasized the necessity for making Canada more competitive, recognizing that we have, according to the statistics made available to us, lost part of this business in that a greater percentage of United States tourists have visited Europe since 1953 than have come to Canada. There is not time for us to sit and discuss in future months what we are going to do; action now is essential. It is not sufficient to say that the provisions of this particular resolution do not meet the requirements of the particular section under which we normally award loans. Let us keep in mind, Mr. Speaker, that there was no objection in the last parliament to giving aid to the agricultural industry. Let us remember that we continually provide assistance to other industries which have meant less to us. I think when we look at the advantages to be gained, the natural resources we have in Canada today; when we look at the attitude of Canadians towards this industry, we, as a parliament, should take effective action, not next year or next month, but in this session to provide needed and essential help to keep the tourist industry one of the top industries within Canada.


Mr. D. M. Fisher (Port Arthur):: Mr. Speaker, I am always rather apprehensive when I see the hon. member for Calgary South (Mr. Smith) get to his feet at any time on private members' day because it usually means the kiss of death for the resolution. We will regret this particular kiss of death because this resolution embodies fairly good and sound socialism. Naturally we are going to be for it. We hope the resolution comes to a vote. I think a word of encouragement might be given to the government here to realize the gigantic forces that it has on its benches and to let them vote for these things for which they are so much in favour. This is by hearsay, but I understand that the former Liberal government-that terrible colossus that ruined the country for so long -occasionally used to allow some of these resolutions to come to a vote. I would appeal to the government to let the same opportunity come now, especially for resolutions presented by their own backbenchers.
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Loans to Tourist Resort Operators
I said that this motion had in it a certain amount of socialism. I think you could see the logic of that view if you noticed the two points at which the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka (Mr. Aiken) and the most recent speaker rather boggled. They both gave you the assurance, that, by gosh, they were for free enterprise; they certainly did not want the government handing out things. But the fact remains that you have got to grant that they both want to get their finger in the pie or their hand in the pie and they offered some good substantial reasons, reasons with which we can go right along and we are not so taken aback.
The hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka listed the objections that could be made to the resolution. I think it is always good tactics to outline the objections that will be made to a proposed resolution. But in discussing it he made four points all of which, with the exception of the one relating to provincial responsibilities, revolve around this factor that we notice causing so much general embarrassment in a mild way because they do keep it down, amongst the government members. After all, they are the party of free enterprise, according to their slogans and their doctrine. Yet when they get down here most of them find, as I say, that their main wish is to put their hand in the pie for their constituents whether it happens to be cash advances for prairie farmers or deficiency payments or parity prices or support prices for pulpwood or greater old age pensions.
I notice they applauded today when the Minister of Finance (Mr. Fleming) introduced his increase in pensions for civil service people and R.C.M.P. people. We welcome it but we wonder how these free enterprisers can go along with these things because there is a possibility that maybe these handouts or these subsidies or these increased pensions will sap the initiative and moral fibre of the people. I wonder at these two hon. members who spoke so strongly from the government benches for this resolution, one that we like, that they are not embarrassed about its possible effect on the moral fibre and the backbone of these tourist camp operators.
The tourist industry gives each one of us who has any relationship to a tourist area an opportunity to do a bit of a Cook's tour. I was greatly interested in the remarks of the hon. member for Niagara Falls (Mr. Houck). I was greatly disappointed that he failed to mention where Niagara Falls first made an impact, illustrated by the old song to honeymooners:
To Niagara on the sleeper;
There's no honeymoon that's cheaper, And the train goes slow.


Not once did he mention the fact that Niagara Falls was the great honeymoon centre. I just wonder whether it has slipped into the discard. It seems too bad that what was once the real romantic capital of North America should have been ignored.


Mr. Crouse:: There is nothing to do there now.


Douglas Mason Fisher: I always understood those people always had something to do. The constituency that I represent and its general area I think gives an indication of the trend in the whole tourist business and what the United States business means to Canada. One of the points that has been made by three previous speakers that I have to disagree with is to the effect that Canadians should try to make their country more Canadian so that it will appeal to the Americans. I would suggest that one of the reasons why Canada appeals to the Americans is that they feel at home here because it is so much a North American society. They know that Heinz' 57 varieties will be in the stores. They know that they can get cokes and ice cream very much of the same calibre they get at home. They know that their credit cards are good at the gas stations and that sort of thing. I think that the whole point of trying to make Canada uniquely Canadian and different from the United States in many ways misses the fact that we are a North American country and that we just cannot resolve or unresolve the link that we have with the United States and its whole culture. If you walk into our news stands you will find that practically everything there except the daily papers has been printed in the United States. The trend all the way through is American. I think that is one of the things that Americans like about coming to Canada. I know they appreciate having their picture taken with the mounted police. I know that many of them who have come to Ottawa seem to appreciate the fact that the Prime Minister (Mr. Dief-enbaker) is doing something for the Ottawa tourist season by keeping us here and giving an extra little fillip to the tourist trade in this particular area.


Mr. Macdonnell:: You are doing your bit to keep us here.


Douglas Mason Fisher: The point about the Port Arthur area in which you can see the trend of what I think is the future of Canada as far as the United States tourist trade is concerned is with regard to our areas, especially our wilderness areas developing into what in effect are summer dormitories for the United States. That has been the trend. Knowing what happened 20 years ago when the Americans

first started coming up into northwestern Ontario, they came up to get big fish such as the musky-


Mr. Browne (St. John's West):: Did you say
they came 20 years ago?


Douglas Mason Fisher: Going back 20 years or 25 years.


William Joseph Browne: Longer than that.


Douglas Mason Fisher: Yes; into Nipigon. I am speaking of my birthplace which is west of the lakehead cities. However, they first came to fish in the Nipigon about 1873 when Lord Dufferin was Governor General. He focussed the world's attention on the Nipigon. I know that a development of the tourist industry in northwestern Ontario began just as the depression was welling up there. Most of the people came up for sports fishing, especially to get muskies and trout. What has been the pattern since then? A few fishing camps were developed at which the rates were very high.
The point I want to make in connection with the lakes up there is that now practically every attractive bit of property has been taken up by Americans and they are developing their own camps. Many of them are staying there throughout the whole summer and right into the hunting season or they establish the camp and lend it to their friends. Red Lake road was opened up stretching for a hundred miles from the C.N.R. up into the Patricia district. Almost like magic United States camps popped up all over the place and most initially with boats and guides for fishing. But I visited there just a little bit over a month and a half ago and the amazing change is that while you have this tourist business with guides, that is already slumping down, and there is building up a much larger, what I would call, camping population of Americans with their own property and with their own private camps. I think anyone who looks at the Muskoka area has seen the same thing. Lakes Rousseau and Muskoka in summertime are summer dormitories for the Toronto-Hamilton area and they also get a certain amount of the United States traffic.
I suggest this is one of the phases of the tourist industry which is really going to have an unbelievable expansion, especially when more of the northern roads are opened up. We have, for instance, a new road from Geraldton to Nakina, running a distance of 35 to 40 miles. This is an important moose hunting area and visitors from the United States are coming up to this part of the country. They will soon of course clean out all the moose and the next step will be the buying up of the islands and lakes and the establishing of relatively permanent summer
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators homes. I believe this trend suggests the future of the trade from United States tourists in this country. We must realize we will have more and more Americans living with us in these areas.
That analysis suggests to me that one of the main things we need in order to set up and establish a successful tourist industry is good accommodation for the people who are en route from one part of the country to another in so far as motels, restaurants and small hotels are concerned. I very much agree with the intent of the resolution in this particular regard and we could certainly stand a great deal more in the way of motel facilities in the outer reaches of northern Ontario.
Most people who have established motels in my area have discovered that their year round business is building up; while it is concentrated in July and August they are finding that all sorts of uses are developing for their resorts, in the spring for the early fishing season and in the fall for the hunting season. At the same time more and more Canadians are taking advantage of these sleeping facilities which were largely designed for the use of the United States travellers.
Our particular region is going to be increasingly a summer dormitory and the opening up of the pulp and paper roads has created a tremendous network of roads throughout the area-I would imagine well over 2,500 or 3,000 miles of them. These roads stretch from the Manitoba border east to White River. The Ontario department of highways is taking over more and more of them so that the tourists are getting deeper and deeper into this country. There is a certain conflict of interests at present between the pulp and paper industry and the tourist operators. The tourist people are clamouring for the right to use these roads while the pulp and paper companies are trying to go slowly because they have built them at considerable expense and while they have nothing in particular against the operators of resorts for tourists from Canada or the United States establishing sites on good lakes they do not like the idea of a truck loaded down with 14 tons of pulpwood having to vie with tourists on a relatively narrow gravel road. But the trend is there and these roads are being gradually taken over by the department of highways in my province which is going to accelerate the process of penetration by United States tourists with respect to the more permanent type of summer camp.
The final point I would like to make in support of this resolution-and I am now quoting from something mentioned by the

Loans to Tourist Resort Operators previous speaker, namely the record of proceedings at the 1957 convention of the Canadian tourist association-is a report under the heading of "Government-Federal" by, I believe, Mr. John Fisher, which says that the association has pressed the federal government, amongst other things, for the following:
(e) An amendment to the Industrial Development Bank Act to permit the tourist industry to borrow capital. We have worked on this from many angles and the appearance of the finance minister at our convention is not unrelated.
The Minister of Finance appeared at the convention and made a speech and he concentrated, I do not know if it was properly so or not, upon the difference in the rates between the United States and Canadian dollars, rather than doing anything about what Mr. Fisher had suggested he might do, namely something in the nature of an amendment to the Industrial Development Bank Act. When the Minister of Finance had completed his remarks a gentleman by the name of Mr. Lawson Mackle made a few comments as follows:
Mr. Chairman, Honourable Mr. Fleming, ladies and gentlemen:	I had prepared some remarks
that I would like to have addressed to the Honourable Minister of Finance but I have been given to understand that he has a very important meeting and far be it from me to detain him but I will ask him just for a moment. I will give you the highlight or the thesis of what I was going to say and maybe the rest of the audience will suffer after you have left sir. I am a split personality. I operate a summer resort and I also own a couple of small farms. As a summer resort operator I am not permitted to borrow money for capital expenditures from banks, financial institutions, insurance companies because we are considered a seasonable industry. On the other hand, as a farmer, that's where I become lopsided, they are constantly encouraging me to borrow more money under the farm improvement act on my farm and my great need today is to borrow money on the tourist resort so that we can get a greater first class accommodation in this country in order to entice more people to spend more money here. Now, sir, that is the gist of what I was going to say and I know you are in a hurry and I won't go any further. If you care to, sir, I will give you a copy of the remarks I intended to make and if you have a few spare moments you might read them over.-
We trust that the Minister of Finance did read over these remarks and we are sure they had something to do with loans for tourist resort operators as was suggested in the resolution of the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka.
We are strongly in favour of the resolution and we hope the government will allow the hon. member's resolution to go to a vote; we think it is a good one and like the free enterprisers and private enterprisers who have spoken we have no hesitation at all in saying, "This is good and we support it."


Mr. C. W. Carter (Burin-Burgeo):: I would like very briefly, Mr. Speaker, to indicate my support of this resolution and to compliment the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka (Mr. Aiken) upon bringing it in at the present time. I would also like to compliment my colleague, the hon. member for Niagara Falls (Mr. Houck), on his very fine contribution to this debate. I feel I should however warn him that my colleague from Grand Falls-White Bay-Labrador (Mr. Granger) will dispute his nomination of Niagara falls as one of the wonders of the world because in his riding of Labrador are the Hamilton falls which we understand surpass Niagara falls in majesty and scenic splendour. In the face of that competition I think the Minister of Finance (Mr. Fleming) will have a tough time getting himself on the list of the wonders of the world.
I am very pleased to be able to assure the house that in my province we are much more aesthetic in our approach to the tourist industry than appears to be the case on the mainland. We do not entice people to stay another hour or so or to eat another 600,000 eggs, nor do we entice them to spend another few million dollars. We like them to stay with us because we like people; we are friendly and sociable and we enjoy their company. We want them to enjoy us and furthermore we like them to drink in our natural beauty and to enjoy the pleasure of our outdoor life, which is second to none in this country. Of course if in the process they do spend a few more millions or eat a few more eggs that is all to the good but it is purely incidental.
Those hon. members who had the pleasure of seeing the pictures shown in the committee room last Tuesday, I believe through the courtesy of Senator Pratt, will realize that in Newfoundland we do have very fine tourist attractions. Those hon. members who were unfortunate enough to have missed those pictures will, I hope, have another opportunity in the near future, because I understand there was sufficient interest aroused to request a second showing. As those pictures prove, we do have unsurpassed tourist attractions in the way of hunting for both big and small game, fresh water fishing, boating and deep sea fishing. The opportunity to develop our tourist industry, was, in fact, one of the main arguments put forward in favour of confederation, and to that end the terms of union embodied a provision that the trans-Canada highway should cross the province from one end to the other and that when this route was completed a new and modern car ferry would be built by the federal government and put into service on the Cabot strait. The vessel designed for this service is the William

Carson, and we understand from what the Minister of Transport (Mr. Hees) told us a few weeks ago that it will undertake this service some time in the middle of next month.
The delay has been somewhat of a blessing in disguise, because the tourist industry in Newfoundland cannot prosper until we have sufficient accommodation available for the tourists. That is our greatest need at the present time, but in spite of the lower interest rate tight money still exists as far as the tourist industry is concerned. The hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka gave us some of the reasons why this should be the case, and I think that since this is a national question it is right for the industry to expect some assistance from the federal government.
The industry is not asking for a handout; it is asking for credit which cannot be obtained from the usual sources because of conditions which apply to the tourist industry more than to other industries. The season is short; business takes a long time to become established, and there are, even now, better investment opportunities. There is a definite need here which must be met, and in Newfoundland, and in my own riding in particular, the tourist industry has practically come to a standstill because of the lack of accommodation.
Efforts have been made by the provincial government during the last four years, but because of conditions on the money market these efforts have not been successful, and unless funds are made available to people who are willing to risk money of their own in these ventures, the tourist industry cannot develop as it could properly be expected to develop.
Nevertheless, it seems to me that this industry has today become almost an essential industry; it is certainly an industry of national importance and one which makes a great contribution to both the national economy and the provincial economy not only through the money which visitors spend directly but because of the encouragement which is given to the development of small home industries.
It is now not uncommon for the government to make money available to assist industries which private capital is not prepared to develop, and certainly the tourist industry has a very strong claim for assistance. As the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka has pointed out, the method by which this money is made available is not important; it is the principle which is important, and I hope that the government will recognize the principle embodied in this resolution and, before long, embody it in the laws and statutes of this country.
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators


Mr. J. C. MacRae (York-Sunbury):: Mr. Speaker, the resolution proposed by the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka (Mr. Aiken) reads:
That, in the opinion of this house, the government should take into consideration the advisability of introducing legislation to authorize the making of loans, jointly with an approved lending institution, to tourist resort operators for the purpose of constructing or making capital improvements to tourist accommodation.
This is, I feel, an excellent one, and most timely. I was deeply interested in this resolution when I saw it on the order paper because I have spent all my life in a province which is very tourist conscious. I refer of course, to New Brunswick, which has been called the picture province of the dominion. It has been said by previous speakers that the tourist industry is big business, and that is quite true. That is borne out by figures which have been given, but which, I feel, bear repetition. In 1948 the money which came into this country as a result of this industry amounted to $280 million; by 1957 it had risen to $362 million.
Since the end of the second world war travel has grown from being a luxury of the wealthy few to being an accepted way of life for every portion of the North American population. The increase in wages and salaries, the shorter working week and longer paid holidays have put the travelling vacation within the reach of everyone. Tourism has reached the status of a major industry. In addition to the moneys spent in Canada by visitors from foreign lands, millions of Canadians spend hundreds of millions of dollars every year travelling in Canada. Tourism has a special significance for the Canadian economy and society in three ways:
1.	Through travel from other countries it is the source of new found money which creates additional commerce and employment in Canada.
2.	An efficient, attractive tourist "plant" in this country can hold travelling Canadians in Canada and keep in circulation here money which would otherwise be lured abroad.
3.	Travel by Canadians within Canada promotes a deeper understanding of our own country and a greater appreciation of our land and our rich heritage, and it fosters national unity.
Tourism means much to Canada, but it could mean a great deal more if the tourist industry were more adequately equipped to meet competition in the international market. In the United States, for example, the tourist business in 1956 grossed about two-thirds as much as the whole agricultural and livestock industry, according to the United States department of commerce. If this trend continues, tourism in the United States may soon surpass agriculture as a major industry.
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Obviously, with more potential tourists than ever before, tourism could be very much bigger business in Canada. But under existing conditions Canada is not holding its own, because last year we had a deficit of $161 million in our tourist account. In other words, while those visiting Canada-and these are dominion bureau of statistics figures-spent $362 million, Canadian visitors to the United States and other countries abroad spent $523 million, a deficit of $161 million which is approximately the same figure as in 1956. It has gone up from a balance, on the other side of the ledger, since 1948, of $145 million.
Canada formerly received the largest share of the money which residents of the United States spent in visiting other countries but that is no longer the case. Since 1953 Europe has attracted more United States dollars through visiting tourists than Canada has. Despite the increase in the cost of transportation, spending by United States travellers in all countries outside the United States is almost double since 1949 but during that same period United States spending in Canada increased by only 23 per cent while Canadian expenditure in the United States rose by 144 per cent.
Many reasons can be given for these travel trends. Among the most important and the more obvious in this competition are the romance of distant areas, the speed of modern air travel, the premium on the Canadian dollar about which I should like to speak later, and the comforts offered by facilities abroad. Competition for the Canadian and United States travel dollar will increase as the world shrinks and as North Americans take more to the motor car and as we, as a people, grow more curious about the world itself. This makes it imperative that Canadians who cater to tourists be able to offer the very best services and facilities to those who demand them when they come here.
It is, of course, sound business practice to improve tourist facilities and accommodation. Millions of dollars are being spent every year by governments, transportation companies and other businesses by way of large advertising campaigns inviting our neighbours in that great country to the south of us to visit Canada and inviting Canadians to travel in Canada. Last year the Canadian government travel bureau spent more than $1,200,000 on an excellent promotion campaign in the United States. I believe that it is economic to back up this expenditure with a product of the highest quality. Promotion of this type abroad and improvement to the tourist plant at home are inseparable. Good advertising alone will not sell an inferior product.


We must offer the traveller more when he gets here. We want him to enjoy the longest possible vacation in Canada and, even more important, to return another year with his friends.
I feel that one of the major deterrents to improvement in tourist facilities and accommodation is the lack of credit facilities. The tourist industry needs long term credit at a reasonable rate of interest. Loans of this nature are not readily available from the chartered banks, insurance companies and trust companies. Without long term credit at moderate interest rates, the return on investment in the tourist industry, especially in the seasonal establishments, is not high enough to allow for the extensive upgrading which is required. The prices charged by the older establishments are low in comparison with those charged by newer places and yet, for what many operators have to offer, the rates are perhaps all that the service is worth. Most of these operators realize that their facilities should be improved and they are anxious to carry out a modernization program but they lack the needed resources. Should an operator improve his facilities by borrowing other than from a bank, insurance company or trust company, he is often obliged to pay a bonus of 10 per cent to 12 per cent and interest payments of eight to 10 per cent or higher. He is then forced to charge very high prices in order to be able to repay the loan in the allotted time. This situation gives the tourist industry a bad name and decreases Canada's competitive position in the industry.
In a recent brief presented to the Minister of Finance (Mr. Fleming) the Canadian tourist association advocated that this government should enact legislation to be known as the "tourist establishment improvement loan act". The resolution now being discussed follows along that line. I should like to place on the record the recommendations of the association with respect to the provisions of the proposed act:
Such an act should provide:
(a)	Moneys for the improvement, replacement and expansion of established resorts, restaurants, hotels, motels and camps.
(b)	A maximum on individual loans of not less than $50,000.
(c)	A maximum term of not less than 10 years.
(d)	Loans to be made at a reasonable rate of interest, not to exceed the prevailing rate at the chartered banks.
(e)	Funds to be made available by means of government guaranteed loans through the chartered banks.
(f)	Total amount to be guaranteed by the government of Canada, not less than $15 million.
The Canadian tourist association is the authority on this particular phase of our economy and it is interesting to consider what

it feels the adoption of these provisions would accomplish. The brief states that in the opinion of the Canadian tourist association the adoption of these provisions would reduce the risk factor of the lending program in two ways:
(i)	The operation of tourist enterprises requires specialized knowledge and techniques. It is therefore prudent to guarantee loans only to persons who are established in the industry and have demonstrated success.
The hon. member for Parry Sound-Mus-koka (Mr. Aiken) made that point very well but I feel it bears repetition. The brief continues with these words:
The risk of lending to inexperienced operators, who might fail in business, is therefore minimized.
(ii)	Lending through the chartered banks would also minimize the risk factor. The manager of the local bank knows local conditions, and he is in the best position to assess the credit worthiness of the client-to assess his record as an operator and the improvements which are contemplated.
I feel that a loan of this type would have beneficial results beyond the improvement of many individual tourist establishments. It would assist in making Canada's tourist industry more competitive in the world market. It would generate new income which would ease Canada's international trade deficit, especially with the United States. It would support our extensive travel promotion program in other countries. It would provide construction and employment during the fall and winter months when seasonal unemployment is at its peak. It would stimulate every phase of the national economy.
The question was raised when the hon. member for Port Arthur (Mr. Fisher) was speaking about how long the tourist industry had been a factor in our economy. I can well remember as a very young lad on the Restigouche river in northern New Brunswick-that river which is famous all over the world for its Atlantic salmon, the finest fighting fish in the world-United States sportsmen who came up there summer after summer and who had been coming for years. Their contribution to the economy of that particular region was one of the most important factors in the livelihood of many of the people there. I had a personal interest in it because, as a young teacher in a community on that river, 90 per cent of my salary was paid by the United States sportsmen. I began to realize how much the Atlantic salmon was worth to the people there.
I feel, however, that we in Canada who are interested in the tourist industry-while most of us have no direct connection with it yet we are interested in the economy of the nation and the financial betterment of our country-have missed the boat badly in
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28, 1958	2777
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators several ways. It has been said, and I should like to emphasize it, that we try to be merely carbon copies in too many ways of the United States. Take, for example, in the matter of food served. There is perhaps no finer dish in the world than a freshly boiled lobster recently taken from the sea off St. Andrew's or somewhere else in the east, or perhaps steamed clams or Atlantic salmon. But what do we see served so frequently in many Canadian restaurants? Southern fried chicken! I do not believe that visitors from the United States have come to Canada to enjoy southern fried chicken. I feel they would enjoy much more a St. Andrew's lobster or Atlantic salmon or some other fine Canadian dish. I could continue at some length but I need only say that all of us have had the unfortunate experience of eating in restaurants where the food has been poorly prepared and served although in all fairness I must say that many of our eating establishments are adequate.
As I have driven about the country-and in the last few years I have seen much of Canada-I have been amazed at the number of hotels and motels that are located right beside the road. Perhaps here in Ottawa where there are several fine motels that is necessary but when I go to bed at night I like to be located some distance from the road so my sleep is not disturbed by traffic and street noise. Many people do not seem to give any thought to the location of the tourist accommodation they construct. Perhaps the only thought they have is the cheapness of the land. I think a great mistake is made in this respect.
There is another thing about which I should like to speak very briefly. I think we miss the boat again with respect to the service that is provided in so many of the hotels, motels and restaurants in this country that cater to our people. I do not think there is any substitute for courtesy and cleanliness. At the 1957 annual meeting of the Canadian tourist association it was suggested by one of the panelists that there should be a school for those people who are in this type of service and I can quite appreciate that. As a teacher deeply interested for most of my life in education and teaching others certain skills, I think that is an excellent idea. For example, I think waitresses should be taught that it is not necessary to insert the whole thumb into a bowl of soup but only up to the first knuckle, and other things like that. In a more serious vein, I believe there certainly is scope for improvement in this direction. Too many times it seems to me that restaurant operators, motel operators and others seem to get their help from the cheapest possible source. That

Loans to Tourist Resort Operators may be so; I do not know. But I think if more care were exercised in hiring and training staff it might help.
I come now to another point with respect to which many will perhaps disagree. I think one of the curses of travel is that degrading habit known as tipping. I am told that some 100 or so years ago the word "tip" originated when a box was placed in Lloyds restaurant * at the beginning Lloyds was a coffee house before it became a great insurance firm- with the words "to insure promptness", and from that the word "T-I-P" evolved. On the other hand I have read that thousands of years ago this same practice was in effect. How many times in our travels, have we received poor service and yet have been expected to tip the person who has performed some service for us for which they have already been paid a salary?
I had occasion a few years ago to travel to Vancouver and to stay for a short time at one of the luxury hotels of the west. I do not do that very often because I never felt I could afford it. But in this particular instance in getting from the train to the hotel and then from the hotel back to the train I ransomed my luggage several times from the young lads who carried it. The president of the Canadian tourist association, W. Gordon Wood, who is also vice-president of sales for T.C.A., had this to say about tipping at the 1957 convention of the association:
Perhaps the time has come for us to consider the establishment of a committee to study the abolition of tipping. We are not saying that this is practical-
I think it is practical.
-or whether it is right or wrong-
Personally I feel it is wrong.
-but we *i know this-
This is the point made by this man who is very conversant with tourist affairs in general.
__that if Canada could announce to the United
States tomorrow that we have abolished all forms of tipping, we believe that we could wipe out our travel deficit.
That deficit, as I said earlier, is now $361 million a year. I believe that people who perform a service, whether as a porter on a railway train or as a waitress in the parliamentary restaurant, should be paid a salary commensurate with the work they do. I do not and never have believed in the practice of tipping because I feel it is degrading.
There is another point I wish to put forward and it is strange it has never been mentioned before. I refer to the handling of United States money in our country. When United States tourists come to the border no attempt is made to change their currency

into Canadian currency. A Canadian or anyone else travelling in France would very soon obtain French francs. A person travelling in England would immediately obtain his pounds, shillings and pence or his "quid" and "bob". But when United States tourists come to this country no such attempt is made.
What do we find? We find that because of economic factors their money is not worth as much as ours. The result is that time after time in our establishments we see arguments going on between some poor harassed cashier and a United States tourist because their dollar is only worth 96 cents. We have all had the experience in the past-I know I can remember it as as a youngster-of going across the border to the United States, having our money thrown back to us and being told that it was no good. Possibly that still happens. I do not know. But I believe it would be a very sensible thing for the Department of Northern Affairs and National Resources, the Department of Citizenship and Immigration or whatever department is concerned, to have at the larger border crossing points at least, the necessary facilities so that as soon as these people have been checked through by customs and immigration officials they can change their money into Canadian money. Then they would have the currency of our country as long as they were here and there would not be these arguments and hard feeling-there is hard feeling when United States tourists find that their money is not worth as much as ours.
Going back to my youth many years ago I can well remember living with a farmer who had a rather good mixed farm. He had done well and I asked him what was the secret of his success. He said, "My boy, on a farm like this the whole year round you have always got to have something to sell." I think that in Canada we have a great deal to sell if we package it properly.
Like other members who have spoken today, and as I will perhaps be the only speaker from the province of New Brunswick, I should like to take a few moments to tell about the beauties of my province and what it has to offer to the visitor. I am sure many hon. members have never been that far east. There is the beauty of the Restigouche, Miramichi and Saint John rivers, perhaps second to none on the whole North American continent, -the tidal bore of the Petitcodiac, the reversing falls on the Saint John river, the only phenomenon of its kind in the world the Magnetic Hill, the beauty of the islands of the bay of Fundy such as Grand Manan and Campobello. In fact, so beautiful is Campo-bello that for much of his life the late President Franklin Delano Roosevelt spent his

summers there and, some say, loved it even more than his own country.
There is the beauty of the historic sites, the land that Cartier first saw in 1534, that was first settled in 1604 and to which the Loyalists came when they emigrated to this country. I could talk for many hours about the beauty of the province from which I come. I simply suggest to you, Mr. Speaker, and to all other members that at the earliest opportunity you come to visit us in New Brunswick. I am sure you will receive a welcome second to none in the whole country.
Finally, Mr. Speaker, notwithstanding what was said by the hon. member for Port Arthur, I feel that the resolution of the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka is not socialism. It is merely justice. If it is implemented, and I am sure it will be at some time by this government in its wisdom, and it possesses a great deal of wisdom, it will be a great boon to this most important phase of the life of our country.


Mr. A. E. Robinson (Bruce):: As the representative for Bruce, Mr. Speaker, I am very happy to make a few remarks on this resolution sponsored by the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka (Mr. Aiken). The resolution reads:
That, in the opinion of this house, the government should take into consideration the advisability of introducing legislation to authorize the making of loans, jointly with an approved lending institution, to tourist resort operators for the purpose of constructing or making capital improvements to tourist accommodation.
I should like to say that we in Bruce are very happy to claim the mover of this resolution as an ex-Bruce boy. I should like to compliment him upon the presentation he made. I should like to say also that we in Bruce are very happy that there are two other hon. members in this house whom we claim as ex-Bruce boys. I refer to the hon. member for Kindersley (Mr. Hanbidge) and the hon. member for New Westminster (Mr. McLennan). I am sure that these three hon. gentlemen will back up any remarks I have to make this afternoon.
Bruce is classified as a rural riding. Our largest town has a population of less than 3,000. We have some very reliable industries in these towns, but I would say there is room for a lot more. The riding is about 140 miles long and we have about 300 miles of shoreline. Our county is two-thirds very good agricultural land, and the other one-third contains some very good tourist locations. I should like to say that we in Canada are very fortunate. We have many wonderful places, and one realizes that after hearing so many hon. gentlemen extol the virtues of their locations this afternoon. I am happy
57071-3-175J
23, 1958	2779
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators to say that we in Bruce do not have to take a back seat to any of them.
Now the tourist industry is a very important industry, not only in Bruce but in the whole of Canada. Our federal government spends a considerable sum in advertising Canada as a tourist attraction, as do many provincial and municipal governments. The tourist industry is something that is really good for the world in that it encourages visitors from one country to another, and the people become better acquainted. It is good for our country as a whole, because it encourages visitors to go from one province to another. I think, in the end, a bit of travel is really a very broadening experience.
As I said before, a large amount of money has been spent in advertising, but in addition a large amount of money has been spent by Canadians in visiting other countries. I think it would be good business to take stock of our own locations, and try to make them more attractive. I am sure that if we did so much of the money spent by Canadians in other countries would be kept in Canada. I believe that the old slogan "See Canada first" applies ever more strongly today. Most of our tourist industries in Bruce are run by local people who have started from scratch, and in many cases with very limited means. Under the circumstances, they have done a wonderful job. However, I am strongly of the opinion that if the principle of this resolution is carried through, it will be a boon not only to the tourist operators in Bruce, but also the surrounding district.
I wish to quote part of an editorial which appeared in the Owen Sound Sun Times on July 21,	1958, entitled "Figures Show
Importance of Tourist Industry":
Any centre that is able to persuade a few dozen tourists to stop in its area during the four summer months will reap financial benefits corresponding to the presence, and year's operation, of a small manufacturing plant, says an Ontario department of travel and publicity statement and, it adds, for every dollar a tourist spends, the community benefits in these proportions: food and refreshment caterers, 27 cents; transportation services, including gas and oil at service stations, 22 cents, lodging and accommodation, 21 cents; retailers, 14 cents; theatre and entertainment, 7 cents; tourist attractions, 4 cents and miscellaneous services laundry, etc., 5 cents.
A Muskoka popular resort bought $18,855 worth of food and accessories for the season and "gave the proprietor a reasonable profit and kept the producers of the farm and orchard products and kept manufacturers of many and various materials supplies and equipment gainfully employed."
Now, at the bottom of that editorial it says this:
In the face of such figures one receives a much greater realization of how unfortunate it is that many of our best summer resort areas are under the jurisdiction of councils composed of men whose vision is strictly limited. They deeply begrudge

Loans to Tourist Resort Operators money spent on what they consider the "summer colony", even though such money is many times contributed by direct taxation from those same people, to say nothing of the other benefits shown from the above example.
According to these figures, we find 27 per cent of the tourist's dollars came to over $18,000. It is logical then, to conclude that four times $18,000 was spent by the tourists who visited that one summer resort, and this would represent a total of approximately $70,000.
In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I should like to make a few remarks about civil defence as it ties in with this resolution. I should like to quote part of an editorial from the Globe and Mail dated July 19, 1958.


Mr. Speaker:: Order. The hon. member has made a statement that civil defence ties in with this resolution. I should like to have that developed a little bit before I allow him to proceed.


Andrew Ernest Robinson: If you will permit me, sir, it is a very short quotation and as soon as 1 have concluded I am satisfied you will see I am in order. I quote:
In the event of an impending attack metropolitan Toronto citizens would be moved to reception areas in the Bruce peninsula and to regions north of Brockville, it was learned last night.
I hope the time will never come, Mr. Speaker, when the metropolitan Toronto area has to be evacuated. If it does, we in Bruce would hope to be good hosts, and we will be helped in being good hosts if this resolution carries, thereby permitting us to have bigger and better tourist accommodation. I am very much in favour of this resolution.
Mr. H. W Herridge (Kootenay West): I rise to give this resolution my hearty endorsa-tion and to congratulate the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka (Mr. Aiken) for bringing this matter to the attention of the house. In this resolution, in my opinion, he proposed something that is of value to society and of value to a good many individuals. It is obvious that the great need for the expansion of the tourist industry in this country, under the requirements of the future, is some form of long term credit which is not available, generally speaking, from the orthodox lending institutions in the country; credit which is required, to my own knowledge, in my own constituency for the development of tourist resorts and things of that type. I have listened to the majority of the speakers this afternoon, and it is quite obvious that the condition which exists in my own constituency exists generally in Canada.
I should like to support also what the hon. member for Bruce (Mr. Robinson) said, when you rather cocked your eye, Mr. Speaker, as

though he was getting out of order. As a matter of fact, that same suggestion has been made in our own district and tourist resorts have been registered as areas where people can be sent, if necessary, under certain conditions. We in this country have a tremendous potential to be developed in this respect in our scenic assets and a potential in the development of opportunities provided for swimming, fishing, hunting, boating, mountain climbing and all those other enjoyments that go with the enjoyment of our lakes, rivers, mountains, parks and other natural resources of that type.
Naturally I cannot refrain from becoming somewhat parochial in this discussion in order to illustrate my point and my reasons for the support of this resolution and to bring to the attention of the house-and I trust to some limited extent to the attention of the country in certain directions-the opportunities provided in Canada's paradise, the Kootenays. I made a summary some time ago of the possibilities for the establishment of tourist resorts in my constituency in certain locations. While at the present time we have excellent accommodation in Nelson, Trail, Rossland, Nakusp, Needles, St. Leon, Kaslo, Beaton, Boswell, Balfour, Proctor, Queen's Bay, Kootenay Bay, Gray Creek and so on; there are unlimited opportunities for further development.
In our district we are today largely overlooked, shall I say, by some very interesting mountain ranges which many famous Canadian climbers have taken the opportunity to enjoy by climbing. They include the Selkirk range, the Purcell range, the Monashee range, the Duncan range, the Battle range, the Valhalla range, the Goat range and a number of others. We have many well-known peaks that have been climbed by a good number of people, and largely as a result of the limited development of the tourist industry in my constituency today. They include Halcyon peak, Nelson peak, Akokla peak, Nowitka peak and mount Fosthall.
Then we have some magnificent parks that can be developed to a much greater extent if the facilities are provided. Passage of legislation of this type will make it possible for people who understand the country, competent people, to develop the tourist resources and the accommodation required to provide for the further enjoyment of the things I am mentioning in Kootenay West. We have excellent parks at Kokanee Glacier park, Nakusp hot springs provincial park and a number of other areas. We have hot springs to be developed at Ainsworth, Nakusp, St. Leon and Halcyon, they are magnificent hot springs and in all but one case are largely undeveloped

at the present time because of lack of cooperation-and in one case particularly, an operator has already spent nearly a quarter of a million dollars in the development of one hot spring-lack of opportunity to borrow sufficient long term credit to develop these hot springs to their proper capacity and so on.
We have some famous lakes including the Arrow lakes, the Kootenay lakes, Slocan lake, Trout lake, and Whatshan lake, which provide magnificent boating, swimming and fishing. In the paradise in our district are offered innumerable opportunities for the development of tourist accommodation. I know a number of people who own very suitable sites. In some cases there is no development because of lack of capital and in other cases there is very small development because of lack of capital.
Then we have opportunities for fishing in Howser lake, Beatrice lake, Demers lake, Little Slocan lakes, Wilson lake, Kemball lake, Duck lake, Caribou lake and Sugar lake, just to mention a few of the multitude of excellent lakes in the area which provide fishing for Kamloops trout, lake trout, Dolly Vardens and fish of those species.
As to rivers, we have the Inonoaklin river, the Duncan river, the Howser river, the Lar-deau river, the Kettle river, the Columbia river, the Kootenay river, and the Slocan river which also provide tremendous opportunities for this type of development. We have many natural creeks which contain the famous Kootenay brook trout, to which, when people come once, they return year after year. They include Incomappleux creek, Akolkolex creek, Pingston creek, Kuskanax creek, Hamill creek, Sheep creek, Monashee creek, Meadow creek, St. Leon creek, Halfway creek, Sitkum creek, Slewiskin creek and many, many others which provide the excellent brook trout which is becoming known all across this country.
In addition to that, Mr. Speaker, we have many undeveloped areas that I shall not take the time to mention now. I have just mentioned a few to illustrate the outstanding opportunities in my constituency for the development of the tourist industry and for the provision of accommodation for which this type of legislation is required if the people who are interested in the industry are to have the opportunity to develop it.
I think this is one facet of our development that can be related to planning as a result of co-operation between the federal and provincial governments, particularly those departments that have under their jurisdiction our natural resources of this type and their development and those departments that have under their jurisdiction the
28, 1958	2781
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators development of highways and things of that sort, whether they are trans-Canada highways or provincial highways. It also offers an opportunity for the correlation of that cooperation between provincial government departments with whatever department of the federal government would be concerned with administrating legislation of this type so that the development can be planned and money can be lent for sound projects. I am always in favour of sound business policy. I always believe that two and two make four. Oftentimes people think they have a wonderful opportunity to do something and would like to borrow money with which to do it. But when you investigate it you find out that the possibility for patronage, business and so on is far too limited and that their ideas are largely in the nature of dreams. However, I suggest that there could be some very sound co-operation between the departments of federal and provincial governments that are interested in the development of our national resources, particularly our parks, recreational development and the provision of tourist accommodation.
I suggest that this subject is worthy of further study. I should like to see this resolution adopted unanimously by the house and then be referred to the appropriate committee of the house for further study and for the hearing of the representations of those in the various departments, federal and provincial, who are particularly interested in this problem and the development of these facilities and the hearing of representations from persons interested in the development of tourist resources, owners and so on, and the various organizations that represent their interests. As a result of that inquiry by a parliamentary committee I think the government would be on very sound ground in introducing legislation to give effect to the purpose and the spirit of the resolution moved by the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka.
(Translation):


Mr. Vincent Brassard (Chicoutimi):: Mr. Speaker, a country like Canada which has a very considerable trade deficit with its neighbours to the south should, in order to balance its payments, make the greatest effort to promote the tourist industry, as one of the most efficient means to balance our country's trade deficit. In practically all spheres of our economic activity, the tourist industry acts as a stimulus. Let tourists come over in large numbers and it means more business for hotels, restaurants and, therefore, all who supply food products and services.
There are, of course, areas in Canada that are just about perfectly set up for that pur-
2782	HOUSE OF
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators pose. Indeed, in such areas, the tourist trade is so profitable that in some cases it can be said that it is their chief industry. However, Canada as a whole is far from being perfectly organized in this respect, and there are still large areas which, though extremely picturesque, do not benefit from the economic help this very modern industry could bring them. Why? Because lack of capital has prevented the building of essential accommodation that would draw and hold visitors here. One case in point is my own riding, though I shall not attempt at this time to describe all its features and attractions. Of course, we have first class hotels and restaurants, but just enough to accommodate commercial travellers or businessmen. To open up the kingdom of Saguenay to large scale tourism, several million dollars should be invested in specialized accommodation, and our businessmen lack the required capital to finance such a project on their own.
Until about 10 years ago, the only tourists who came over would sail up the Saguenay in a Canada Steamship Line vessel and used the boat as a hotel even when it put in at Chicoutimi. This is a type of tourists who are profitable only to the steamship company. As for our railway, to which I have referred on a previous occasion, it is far from being the modern, twentieth century transport which is likely to attract visitors to the area. Until that railway has been overhauled or rebuilt, you can be sure, Mr. Speaker, that those who travel over it for the 13 hours it takes to cover the distance from Montreal to Chicoutimi are people who have no choice but to do so. However, for the past decade, a modem highway has linked us to Quebec city by a 2J hour drive. This road, which is open the year round, even in the dead of winter, is one of the most attractive highways in Canada, and at each turn reveals new vistas of unsuspected beauty and grandeur. So far, it has been used chiefly by highway transport operators in competing with our railway, for this area has not been ready to accommodate tourists who, on reaching Quebec city, look for interesting side trips they can make.
Hotel organization is therefore a compelling necessity in our district, and that is why I fully support the resolution introduced by my hon. friend from Parry Sound-Muskoka (Mr. Aiken). This resolution is based on a remarkable realism, because it would help reduce


considerably the commercial deficit of Canada towards the United States, while developing most districts of our country.
I know that, in principle, the federal government must not interfere with private business, but every rule has its exceptions and, with regard to the urgent situation prevailing in several districts of the country, in so far as tourism is concerned, some legislation is imperative to remedy the situation. Tourist establishments are in the same position as any small industry unable to borrow from credit organizations or on the money market. The previous administration had partially dealt with small and medium industries in establishing the Industrial Development Bank. The present government would complete the cycle and would break the vicious circle in introducing some legislation allowing the Industrial Development Bank to finance tourist establishments.
Another good way of killing two birds with one stone-that is to say develop the tourist business and at the same time increase revenue for the Canadian National Railways- would be to build several other large hotels in various key areas of the country, and especially in Chicoutimi, where such an establishment has long been a crying need.
This summer, about 10 conventions, provincial and even national in scope, will take place in Chicoutimi; and we always find it very hard to provide the necessary accommodation for all our visitors. Besides, many organizations that would like to come and enjoy our marvelous climate in summer, our unique landscapes and, above all, our proverbial hospitality, have to be turned down through lack of accommodation.
Mr. Speaker, in closing my brief remarks, I repeat that the government should do all it can to offset our unfavourable trade balance with the United States. This resolution provides an excellent means to do so, and it is our duty to support it, so that Canada may regain the rank it has lost in favour of Mexico, as the country most frequently visited by American tourists.
(Text):


Mr. W. G. Dinsdale (Brandon-Souris):: Mr. Speaker, I believe this is the first opportunity this house has had for a full scale debate on the important subject of the tourist industry in Canada and I would therefore congratulate the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka (Mr. Aiken) for making it possible to have such a debate under the

resolution now before us. It is rather remarkable that we do not hear more in this chamber about tourism. I have been listening to the contributions made so far in the discussions and it is obvious that the tourist industry in Canada is assuming very substantial proportions.
As we have heard from several speakers, in terms of revenue this industry is surpassed only by the wheat industry and the newsprint industry and I think it is time that we in this chamber began to take a more detailed interest in what is involved in its thriving and growing activity. The whole subject of the increase in tourism, of course, arises from the increasing mobility of the people during the last few decades. Our society has been moving in the direction of shorter hours of work with correspondingly longer hours of leisure. The advent of the automobile and suitable roads to accommodate automobiles have made it possible for almost every citizen on this continent to become mobile. Holidays are now a universal pattern and when all these things are taken into consideration they account for the tremendous upsurge in the tourist industry and the incidental development in those important bi-products-trade and industrial activity.
We have heard from members from the maritimes and from the central parts of Canada and I would now like to relate some of the issues they have raised and some of the suggestions they have made in their discussions to our situation in the province of Manitoba. Manitoba is popularly known as the keystone province because of its geographical position, right in the centre of the federation and has become increasingly popular as a mecca for tourists. The geographical position of Manitoba is partly responsible for this because we are also close to the geographical centre of the North American continent and when I say we I mean particularly my own constituency of Brandon-Souris.
Relating the phrase "the keystone province" to broader issues, I have for the past few years been maintaining that this term not only applies to economic things but that it applies also to the political situation in Canada. We have been in a cross current of opinions from both east and west over the years, and as long ago as 1951 I was making the prophecy that as goes Manitoba so goes the rest of Canada. That has certainly been revealed in the political developments which have taken place within the past few months right across the nation. 1 think the same interpretation would result from an analysis of the developments which have taken place in
28, 1958
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators trade and industry in Manitoba, and certainly it could be used to describe the developing situation in relation to the tourist industry.
It is somewhat significant, I think, to recall that the city of Brandon in the southwestern part of the province of Manitoba was originally known as the wheat city of the west. It has long since lost that title to the province of Saskatchewan but I will suggest this afternoon-and present some facts that will substantiate this suggestion-that as the city of Brandon was once known as the wheat city of the west, the area surrounding it is gradually becoming known as a tourist centre, at least of the continental prairie section of Canada.
I say this because we have a highway passing through this area of the province which is rapidly becoming known as the main street of the Americas. It is a highway which extends from South America through Mexico, right up through the United States, into Canada and on to the northern reaches of Manitoba. At the present time the road terminates in Flin Flon, but with the rapid developments which are taking place in our northern mining communities in Manitoba it will only be a matter of a few years before we have an all-season driveway right through to the port of Churchill.
Along that highway are located some of the most attractive tourist areas not only in Manitoba but in the whole of Canada. I am hoping that at some time those who are interested in the tourist industry in Canada- those responsible for the mass media of information; the press, radio, television, films and other media of that kind-will have their attention attracted to this area. Indeed, I hope that this debate today and this particular presentation may be the means whereby their attention will be directed to this area and that they may do a story on the significance of this main street of the Americas. I propose to deal only with the attractions on the Canadian side, of course.
Right at the border on No. 10 highway we have the international peace garden. Hon. members who have been in this chamber for the past few years will recall that I have had occasion to refer to the international peace garden on former occasions. My interest in the development of this tourist area- because it is that, in addition to being much more than a tourist attraction-began long before I came to the House of Commons. My predecessor in the House of Commons, the late J. E. Matthews, was also vitally interested in its potentialities. The peace garden is a joint Canadian-American project on the Manitoba-North Dakota boundary which is

Loans to Tourist Resort Operators dedicated to the symbolization of the universal desire of the human family for peace. I attended the ceremonies at the opening of the garden back in 1932.
It is a spontaneous project originally sponsored by the international gardeners association-I believe that is the name. They had been searching right along the boundary of Canada for a natural area, an area untouched by the handiwork of man, which might prove a suitable location for a project of this kind. Mr. Moore of Islington, along with other representatives of the international gardeners association, visited the area, and immediately saw its natural advantages. That was in the year 1929. In 1932 the official opening took place with the unveiling of a cairn which had been raised from the native stone of the area. The inscription on this cairn conveyed the purpose of the international peace garden in the following words:
To God in His glory
We two nations dedicate this garden and pledge ourselves that as long as men shall live, we will not take up arms against one another.
That is the purpose of the peace garden, as is simply stated in the words on the cairn. I had to become active in the house in behalf of this project because shortly after I came to the House of Commons an annual federal grant of some $15,000 was suddenly removed and we had to take action regarding the restoration of that grant which was one of the important financial measures by which the garden was being developed. The grant was restored after one year, but at a reduced amount of $10,000. I am delighted to see from the supplementary estimates that this grant is to be increased to the original amount of $15,000, and I must congratulate the government and particularly the minister of northern affairs (Mr. Hamilton) on having taken this action. It demonstrates that both the minister and the government are aware of the growing importance of the tourist industry generally.
I could spend some time discussing this particular aspect of the tourist industry in Manitoba, but I must not yield to that temptation other than to say that in recent years it is encouraging to note that as result of growing publicity thousands of people annually are coming from all parts of North America and indeed from many European countries to hold international gatherings of various kinds in the garden. Others merely come to the garden and try to capture the inspiration which motivated the founders to establish it and dedicate it to the pursuit of peace. I have already indicated that this project is more than simply an aspect of the tourist industry.

We have, for example, an annual meeting of students. Students from both Canada and the United States gather there for discussions of international affairs. I should give honour where honour is due and say that the junior member for Queens (Mr. Mac-quarrie was one of the founding spirits of this international conference. Various service clubs and international bodies are also holding their gatherings there. As a matter of fact, if the necessary facilities were available this would be an ideal place in which to hold a summit meeting. The summit is not very high, of course, because although this is on top of Turtle mountain hon. members will realize that with regard to mountains Manitoba can hardly be compared with British Columbia. But the location, and the spirit behind this garden would, I think, create a very fine atmosphere in which the leaders of the nations of the world could confer.
I must mention this point before proceeding with my remarks. A most interesting development has occurred in recent years. I refer to the establishment of an international music camp in the international peace garden. The founder, as one might guess from his name, is a Minnesota Norwegian, Dr. Merton Utgaard, a well-known professor of music from Northern Illinois university. He first got the idea when working in a C.C.C. camp in the depression of the thirties, on the United States side of the garden. During the first week of July musicians from all parts of Canada and the United States including 500 students of music gathered together at this point. The group included such eminent musicians as the leader of the Winnipeg symphony orchestra. The idea behind it is to have not only a workshop for high school musicians but to eventually send these musicians to various parts of the North American continent and to Europe with a view to contributing to the promotion of peace and international good will and understanding through the medium of music the universal language of the soul. That is the animating purpose behind the meeting of the musicians in the international peace gardens.
There is one handicap in the operation of activity of this kind and that is the lack of suitable buildings and facilities. That is a subject I want to direct to the attention of this government. They will be called upon for assistance as concrete proposals of this kind are formulated. That is just the beginning of the main street of the Americas. Extending right up to the northern part of Manitoba we have a series of tourist attractions. All of these demonstrate the tremendous potentiality of this area, the keystone province, as a source of tourist interest.

I should also mention that our neighbouring state, North Dakota, is so enthusiastic about the peace garden to which I have referred that the licence plates for automobiles issued in that state bear the designation, "The Peace Garden State".
Along the main street of the Americas in Manitoba we have such well-known tourist attractions as lake Killarney, as beautiful as its namesake, Pelican lake and Oak lake. Passing through the city of Brandon, whose virtues I need not extol, we are contemplating there in the immediate future construction of lake Brandon which will add to the value of that area as a tourist centre. Next we come to lake Minnedosa in the constituency of my colleague the hon. member for Marquette (Mr. Mandziuk) and Manitoba national park on Clear lake, one of the finest national parks in our whole system. It is second only to the well-known park at Banff in the number of visitors it attracts annually. This weekend I might add the national park in Manitoba has been celebrating the observance of its 25th anniversary. We then continue on to lake Dauphin, to Flin Flon with its many tourist attractions and then come to the north which is a subject in itself.
All throughout this area there is a great need for development along the lines contained in the proposed resolution of the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka. I am grateful that he has provided an opportunity for making some observations in this respect. The problem has been raised by several hon. members concerning just how far private activity should go and to what extent government activity should mingle in this kind of development but that is something that can be sorted out only with experience. The government has already made a large contribution to promoting our tourist industry through the government travel bureau. I believe the publicity that is now being undertaken will assist tremendously in overcoming some of the handicaps that have been mentioned about Canadians going to the United States or even to Europe instead of seeing Canada first. I agree with hon. gentlemen who said we certainly have not been getting the proportion of tourists from that great country to the south of us that we could have expected were the advantages of touring in Canada fully known. The problems of publicity and the provision of adequate hospitality and facilities need solving.
I should make one observation in this regard in which governments should be extremely interested, and that is that the state of our highways in certain areas of Canada leave much to be desired. We know that the roads on the prairies in particular 57071-3-176
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators are not very conducive to providing the kind of hospitality that will invite tourists to return or encourage them to invite their friends and neighbours to come to Canada. It is not a new idea to sponsor the notion that governments on all levels should take a very hard look at the problem of providing roads that are suitable and adequate to meet the needs of this thriving new industry in Canada. If the tourist industry is third in position as a revenue bearer, with a very small outlay and little thought in organization it could easily assume the topmost position. As far as my area is concerned, any assistance of the kind proposed in the resolution will be welcome. It will provide a great boon to the diversification of industry that is so badly needed in that part of the country.
May I call it six o'clock, Mr. Speaker.
At six o'clock the house took recess.


[Stage Direction]
AFTER RECESS

The house resumed at eight o'clock.
Mr. John MacLean (Winnipeg North Centre):: Mr. Speaker, I had not thought I would be following directly another Manitoba member in this debate. Perhaps it is a good thing for by strength of numbers and conclusiveness of argument we may be able to convince members of the house to visit and enjoy our fair province.
With regard to the resolution before us, as many of the previous speakers have pointed out the Canadian tourist association is a nonprofit organization serving the Canadian tourist industry and as the national voice of Canada's tourist industry it represents almost every phase of the Canadian economy. It has been further pointed out by previous speakers that the tourist industry in Canada is an extensive business and that part of everyone's income comes from visitors to our communities and to the country. It has been said that tourism means much to Canada and I agree completely with that statement. However, apart from the national picture as a whole I should like to point out to the house that the tourist trade in the province of Manitoba is an important segment of the national tourist business and, in effect, has been growing larger and larger every year.
Many people across the country do not realize that the city of Winnipeg is located only 60 miles from the United States border and Manitoba as the keystone province in its favourable geographical position and with its abundance of tourist attractions now occupies an important status in the Canadian tourist business. You have heard my good friend,

Loans to Tourist Resort Operators the hon. member for Brandon-Souris (Mr. Dinsdale), extol the virtues of the tourist attractions in his constituency and the area surrounding it in the southwest portion of the province. I do not intend to repeat his remarks but rather I should like to discuss the tourist business in the province of Manitoba as a whole with, of course, some reference to the city of Winnipeg.
In 1957 more visitors came to our province and spent more money than in any previous year. The estimated value for 1957 is well over $31 million and it is considered that this amount was spent by at least one million tourists. For the year 1957 the province of Manitoba had the largest percentage increase in the tourist industry of any province in Canada. Another significant index of the upward trend in Manitoba's tourist volume is that for the first six months of 1958 there was an increase of 12.9 per cent over the corresponding months of 1957 in the number of foreign vehicles coming into the province. This is the largest increase of any province in Canada, with our closest competitor being the province of British Columbia. Present indications suggest that the year 1958 will be the best tourist year in the history of the province. The current period of economic adjustment in capital investment, industrial activity and consumer purchases appears to have had little, if any, reflection on the tourist trade of Manitoba.
It is noted that families and sportsmen are already allocating more money for travel and holidays than ever before. Disposable income available for travel and vacations has increased more than most commodity prices and service charges. The factor of money is not alone in influencing the tourist trade in Manitoba. As is pointed out in the Manitoba tourist industry report, a publication of the department of industry and commerce of the province of Manitoba, "time itself is a big factor".
In the states of the United States closest to our province paid vacations for hourly workers have more than doubled since 1939. Today well over 95 per cent of hourly workers have vacations with pay. Four times as many companies now allow three weeks vacation as did ten years ago. The five-day week has become standard practice throughout business and industry. Thus all facets of the tourist trade, theoretically at least, have a stake in over 120 days of an employee's year. This figure is made up of the annual vacation plus statutory holidays and week ends.
The trend in Manitoba this year is reflecting the influence of these factors. Capital investments in new motels, hotels, resorts, hunting


and fishing lodges, in additions and modernizations to be completed in 1958, will see the greatest amount of investment in tourist facilities ever made in a single year in this province. This in itself is reason enough for me to give serious consideration to the resolution before the house tonight.
The population of our province is approximately 850,000 with roughly half of this number being concentrated in the Winnipeg area. From the Winnipeg of 1874 with 4,000 people to the present Winnipeg with close to half a million people, Winnipeg's growth has been truly amazing. Today greater Winnipeg, which includes Winnipeg proper and its twin city of St. Boniface across the Red river, stands as Canada's fourth largest city and the leading industrial and agricultural centre of three provinces. Every year, and this is a point I should like to emphasize, the city is host to more than 600,000 tourists and, whatever the purpose of their visit, you may rest assured that Winnipeg offers them a warm hearted welcome. The mayor of the city of Winnipeg would, I think, agree with me in saying that the key to our city in effect is available at all times for all visitors to the capital city of the province of Manitoba.
The fact that a great deal more than half of the estimated number of tourists who come into the province of Manitoba visit the city of Winnipeg is also another reason why I, as the member for one of the Winnipeg constituencies, should consider seriously this resolution. The city of Winnipeg welcomes the tourist trade for the city can provide adequate accommodation, is a mecca for visiting shoppers and has within the limits of greater Winnipeg over 1,000 green acres of park made up in the main of spacious Kildonan, St. Vital and Assiniboine parks which I am sure you would all enjoy.
Throughout the year the city of Winnipeg has a wide selection of entertainment ranging from sports as played in our magnificent new arena and stadium by professional hockey, baseball and football teams, namely the Warriors, the Goldeyes and, of course, our famous Blue Bombers,-I may say that Winnipeg is one of the few cities in Canada that is able to support three professional athletic teams-to the new modern Assiniboine Downs race track and, on the more cultural side, the Royal Winnipeg ballet and the outdoor Rainbow Stage at Kildonan park to the latest production at the Playhouse theatre. Of course, the tourist's visit would not be complete unless it included the colour and pageantry of the very interesting and beautiful festivals of the various ethnic groups in our fair city. Whatever the tourist's taste may be, he may rest assured that in the city of Winnipeg he will not be bored.

In concluding this brief resume of the attractions of the city of Winnipeg and the province of Manitoba,-I must admit it is very brief and I could go on for many hours but I have not got that many hours-I should like now to dwell on the resolution with regard to the financial aspects. I have attempted to show the house that we have a tourist industry in our province which is very important to the people of Manitoba. This makes it necessary that I consider this resolution in all its details. Who benefits from the tourist trade? In the first place it should be established that what is called the tourist trade is, in fact, a combination of many private businesses and government services. In most cases, they work independently, but all contribute goods or services which are used or consumed by the tourist.
Whatever one may do for a living, whether it is in industry, farming, the wholesale or retail trade, or some other business or profession, part of your income is derived from the visitors to your community or to our country. The Manitoba government has done a great deal of research on the tourist industry. I should like to take up some of your time by quoting from figures which show a breakdown of every tourist dollar spent in our province. It is estimated that the retail stores all over the province are the chief beneficiary of the tourist spending, in that 31 cents of every tourist dollar is spent in retail outlets. About 24 cents goes for accommodation of one kind or another in hotels, modern hunting and fishing lodges, camp grounds and trailer parks. Restaurants, dining rooms and snack bars collect 21 cents of every tourist dollar. With regard to this last factor, the province of Manitoba estimates that in 1957-how they procured this estimate, I do not know-the consumption of foodstuffs by tourists amounted to 600,000 eggs; 2.5 million pounds of grain products; 1.5 millions pounds of sugar and syrup; 725,000 pounds of butter; 7.5 million pints of milk and 4.5 million pounds of meat and meat products. These figures aptly demonstrate the large and important tourist industry in the province of Manitoba.
Of every tourist dollar spent in our province, there was 15 cents spent for gas and oil. Altogether, in 1957, tourists purchased $5.5 million worth of gas and oil. You can just imagine, on the gasoline tax alone the treasury of the province of Manitoba collected about half a million dollars. I was amazed when I was in receipt of these figures to find that the tourist industry of Manitoba actually was so large. Of the balance of the tourist's dollar, 9 cents was used for entertainment and miscellaneous unclassified 57071-3-176J
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators purchases. From these official figures, it may be seen that the tourist trade benefits many different sections of our economy in Manitoba and, of course, across Canada as a nation.
Conversely, the introduction of these important tourist dollars means a high standard of living for many of our people. It is reasonable to assume that the tourist industry will play an increasingly important role in the future in broadening the base of our economy. We may make this reasonable assumption, and I make it in all seriousness, because of definite trends in high and rising incomes; the allocation of more consumer dollars for vacation and travel; the increase in the number of privately owned automobiles; the growing participation in outdoor activities by both sportsmen and family groups. Of course, so far as Manitoba is concerned, there is the further fact that there is close proximity of a receptive class of prospects for travelling and holidaying in our province. Because of the importance of the tourist industry and the reasonable assumption that it will play an increasingly important role in the future, we are well advised to study this resolution with regard to long term financing for tourist resort operators.
As the brief submitted by the Canadian tourist association to the government concerning a tourist establishment improvement loan act-which is much the same thing as this resolution proposes-points out, the tourist industry is composed mainly of small businesses. While there are some larger establishments, the greater percentage of restaurants and accommodation establishments are small. Many are, in fact, family enterprises. The brief goes on to point out that one of the major deterrents to improvement of tourist facilities is the lack of credit resources. The brief suggests that the tourist industry needs long term credit at reasonable rates of interest. With this suggestion, I am in complete accord.
However, with regard to a long term credit plan, I would point out that it would be preferable for this house to consider at just what point within the tourist industry as a whole, such credit plan would be needed. I have pointed out previously that in the province of Manitoba, the largest portion of the tourist dollar, 31 cents, is spent in retail stores. Surely, if any long term financing plan is needed for the tourist industry, it is most appropriate to consider the extension of such a plan to the independent retail merchant. Even before I was elected to office I had given a great deal of thought to the importance to our economy of the small retail merchant. There are many reasons for my interest in this field, but probably the main

Loans to Tourist Resort Operators influencing factor was that my father had his own retail business in the city of Winnipeg for a great many years. It was only natural that I became aware of his problems, and consequently the problems of the independent retail merchant in Winnipeg today.
As I have pointed out, the greater portion of the tourist dollar is spent in retail outlets. Therefore, I should like to consider this resolution as it affects retail outlets in the city of Winnipeg. It has been forecast that by this time next year there will be an additional $20 million investment in supermarkets operating in the city of Winnipeg. I have no quarrel with this, for the supermarket idea is beneficial to the housewife and to the community at large. This development shows an extreme faith in the future of the city of Winnipeg and the province of Manitoba. To emphasize the extent of this investment, I should like to read from part of an editorial in the Winnipeg Tribune of Thursday, July 24:
The $20 million investment planned here in the next year-


Mr. Speaker:: Order. I ask the hon. member to consider whether he is not getting off the course of this debate if he gets into a discussion of supermarkets?


John Douglas Campbell MacLean: With great respect, I do not think I am. What I am trying to do is point out that if this long term financing plan should be applicable to the tourist industry, then the various places where the tourist dollar is spent should be considered. In the province of Manitoba, the largest portion of the tourist dollar is spent in retail outlets. I am trying, therefore, to make the point that perhaps this long term financing as set forth in the resolution should be extended to independent retail outlets. I am trying to make the point that the independent retail outlets need it.


Mr. Speaker:: I am afraid it is rather remote from the subject under discussion.


John Douglas Campbell MacLean: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, I shall not go ahead with the editorial. However, the point I should like to make, and I think it has been made, is that it is becoming increasingly more evident, and will be more so by this time next year in the city of Winnipeg, that the independent food retailer in Winnipeg has to be competitive with those in the corporate fields. As a matter of fact, in so far as this resolution is concerned, the retail merchants' association submitted a brief along very much the same lines as those incorporated in the resolution before us.
I make this point of the independent retail merchant only to point out to the members

of the house for their consideration the importance of the independent retail merchant to the tourist industry and the fact that consideration of this resolution should not be confined to tourist resort operators only but should include retail merchants and retail outlets in all towns and cities across this country.
I could perhaps go further at this point and dwell on the great needs of small business and industry in Canada today, for some kind of long term financing is drastically needed. It is true that a tourist resort has singular characteristics such as seasonal operation and possibly a higher rate of depreciation. However, in the main, they are at present in the same position as nearly all small business across this country with regard to long term financing. This question has been discussed in this house on other occasions. The government is especially aware of this problem and is busy at the present moment setting up a small business section to consider these difficulties with a view to finding some solution.
As the Canadian tourist association stated in its brief, it welcomes the expressed intention of the government to take measures to alleviate the difficulties which operators of small enterprises encounter for the improvement and expansion of business. It might be possible,-and it is my hope that this possibility will eventually become a reality-with adequate legislation, to allow small business and industry to participate in the financial field in much the same way as do larger corporations.
In any event, I heartily approve of this resolution. The hon. member who proposed it is to be commended for bringing it to the attention of the house. However, I should certainly like to see the resolution broadened to bring in the independent retail merchants and other small business and industry throughout Canada. As I have already pointed out, the tourist in Manitoba spends the greater part of his dollar in the retail outlets, and I believe any consideration that might be given to the tourist resort operators with regard to long term financing and credit should be given to the independent retail merchants across this country.
This subject of long term financing, of course, is something that deserves diligent and careful scrutiny and study in order that some constructive suggestion could be offered to the tourist industry and small business right across this country. If I may do so at this point, I should like to say that I have been in the house all day and have been greatly interested in the remarks of the

various hon. members who have spoken on this resolution which is now before us. One in particular, namely the hon. member for Calgary South (Mr. Smith), referred to the fact that a recommendation has been made that the 1968 winter Olympics be held in the Calgary and Banff area. This would be the second occasion on which such games have been held in Canada. The hon. member for Calgary South brought this suggestion forward with the idea that perhaps the members of this house would support such a recommendation having regard to the boon it would be to the tourist industry in western Canada and Canada as a whole. I only hope that this event comes to pass for it is important not only to the tourist industry but to Canada's status as a nation. I heartily support the recommendation made by the hon. member for Calgary South.
The hon. member for Niagara Falls (Mr. Houck) spoke at great length of the beauty of Niagara Falls and quite rightly so, for it is one of Canada's great spectacles. But as the hon. member for Port Arthur (Mr. Fisher) pointed out, no mention was made of the fact that it was still a rendezvous for honeymoon-ers. We in Manitoba have no Niagara falls but we have some of the world's best fishing, hunting and scenic resorts. We are quite prepared to welcome all the honeymoon couples to come and honeymoon in our province and enjoy our wonderful western hospitality.
The hon. member also remarked on the critical attitude of some Canadians towards Americans vacationing in this country. This is an attitude that must be dispelled at all costs. We in Manitoba-and I am sure this is true right across Canada for the majority of Canadians-welcome our friends from across the border who, we feel, should not be the object of such criticism.
I have not spoken at as great length as I might have spoken with regard to the advantages to be enjoyed by any tourist visiting the province of Manitoba. The hon. member for Brandon-Souris (Mr. Dinsdale) dwelt on some aspects of that matter this afternoon. All I should like to say is that our province has a great deal to offer anyone who is desirous of visiting us. On behalf of the city of Winnipeg and the province of Manitoba I am extremely pleased to invite the members of this house to pay us a visit at their convenience so that they may enjoy what we Manitobans consider to be the finest tourist attractions in Canada.


Mr. Speaker:: Before any other hon. member takes the floor may I recall to the house the subject matter of our discussion. It relates to the lending of money for the purpose of making capital improvements to tourist accommodation. I expect a reasonable amount
28, 1958
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators of oratory from each hon. member about the tourist attractions of his own constituency and undoubtedly that subject is related to the tourist industry. But I would urge hon. members not to engage in full length discussion of the beauties of the spot from which they come but to relate their remarks, if possible, to the capital improvements that are needed in the tourist industry and the loans that are required for that purpose.


Donald Methuen Fleming: Mr. Speaker, this debate which has been going on here today is as good evidence as you could find of the growing awareness there is in the country of the value of the tourist industry as it is and as it can be. The resolution submitted by the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka (Mr. Aiken) is also an indication of the awareness of the necessity for the development of our facilities if we are to maintain the position that we now hold and certainly if we are to improve that situation in the country.
In recent years the tourist industry has become one of our major industries. It is an industry with a tremendous potential; but that potential will be realized only if the facilities to cater to the tourist trade are provided. As has been pointed out here today in many of the speeches, the tourist industry is largely in the hands of the independent or small businessman whose financial resources are limited and who, owing to a relatively short season, is unable to secure from the operations of his business the additional capital that is required for capital expenditures. Consequently, if the very people who will provide the means of expanding our tourist industry are going to be able to do so, they must have access to the money they require.
The resolution suggests that the federal government can make this money available through a system of extending credit. There has been a suggestion-and I think it is a reasonable one-that it is perhaps not entirely the responsibility of government to make this money available, that there are other channels or other sources by means of which funds could be made available to the tourist industry. I feel that we must not lose sight of the fact that the government has not unlimited credit and cannot meet every requirement of business and industry in Canada. Nevertheless, if there is in any industry a branch capable of a development that will return to government more than the cost of creating the necessary development in the industry, then probably there is a good case for federal government participation.
In that case I am inclined to disagree with the hon. member for Port Arthur who suggested that those who support this resolution
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Loans to Tourist Resort Operators are endorsing socialism because by making credit facilities available and by loaning money secured as to repayment plus interest the government would not be giving anything away. It would simply be providing a facility which in its turn will ensure repayment with interest of these loans and this is something which is not necessarily true of socialist ventures.
There are in Canada many areas where there is a highly developed tourist industry including regions which are internationally as well as nationally famed for their beauty and recreational attractions which are perhaps developed as far as is possible. There are other areas which are only now becoming appreciated and it is only recently that people have realized what such areas have to offer to the tourist industry. These regions are being opened by the development of our highway system; the trans-Canada highway alone has provided access to regions which will I imagine in the years to come constitute some of the major tourist areas in Canada. This will only be so, however, if cash advances are available to people who wish to go into the areas and provide the facilities which must be provided. Many such regions are now virtually wilderness without even a gas pump. Everything will have to start from the bare ground and be built up.
A tremendous amount of capital investment will be necessary and, as has been pointed out during the course of this debate, such capital is not at present available to the small operator at a reasonable rate of interest or for a sufficiently lengthy period. Many of these areas are areas which produce primary products only, in most cases supporting only seasonal industries. They cannot support a secondary industry and consequently have but one source of revenue. In order to develop they will of course require further sources of revenue but it may be years before they can be developed to this point. With no factories or like facilities the people who live in such areas have inadequate income at this time but there is one point in their favour and that is that in many places their natural attractions give them a potentiality for development as popular tourist resorts.
The lack of year round industrial payrolls is of course a serious disadvantage but such sources of revenue might be provided by the development of the tourist industry which in turn would provide the funds required to create the necessary facilities with which to satisfy the travelling public. The whole potential of the tourist industry in Canada can be related to these areas which are only now


beginning to be viewed with an understanding of what can be done by the careful expenditure of money and with adequate advertising. Such regions are not sufficiently prosperous to maintain a reasonable standard of living.
For instance, to particularize, there are regions in this country which are primarily farming areas growing seasonal crops and providing employment for perhaps six or eight months a year-some of them even less than that. There is an idea which has started to grow in recent years and which is not a new one-it is perhaps a very old idea but like so many old ideas is now being reconsidered with a fresh approach-that is the development of the farm vacation. No one will argue that in this country there does not exist the need for improving the level of farm incomes and any measure which could increase the income of our farm people will not only be of direct benefit to them but it will also be of benefit to the country as a whole. The farm vacation is only now beginning to be appreciated although that appreciation is limited to some extent to eastern Canada. It is, however, an idea which could spread although there are few farmers who have the necessary additional revenue required to create facilities necessary to cope with the tourist trade.
The idea of a farm vacation sounds very good and I have encountered people who have considered the idea and some have actually begun to develop their farms to provide such vacations. However, when they find out what is necessary in the way of accommodation and in order to meet the provincial health regulations and the demands of the modern travelling public they realize that the farm vacation today is not the same as it was 25 or 30 years ago. Farm incomes are not adequate to provide the facilities which people have come to expect and the farmers have sufficient difficulty in finding the capital they require to cover their ordinary expenditures so that if they are to develop the tourist trade they must have access to additional revenue on a long term basis and at reasonable rates of interest.
A further problem in Canada is the problem of providing employment during winter months. We have heard during the course of the debate that the tourist industry is in many cases a seasonal one, generally speaking, for perhaps four to five months of the year. The largest proportion of our tourist business is done during the summer months but there is no reason why we could not extend our facilities to include more highly

developed winter vacation programs thus providing a valuable source of winter employment. We have the climatic conditions necessary for every type of winter recreation. The Canadian people are in the habit of taking their holidays in the summer months because it is then that facilities are available to them and except in a relatively small part of the country little is done to provide facilities for winter vacations or recreation. There is at present very little encouragement for Canadians as a whole to take winter holidays and much should be done to provide the accommodation so that such vacations could be promoted.
Skiing facilities, sleighing facilities, ice for skating and all the other winter recreations that build up into a typical winter resort town are expensive, and the accommodation which will serve them is expensive. The cost of heating has to be very carefully considered; it has to be done on the most economical basis, and that usually means an expensive type of installation.
There are many regions which are multiple regions for recreation, and if these regions can be helped to extend their season and increase their opportunity for earning income by providing facilities that operate more nearly on a 12 months a year basis then we will have further strengthened the economy of many regions in Canada which now have only a limited or restricted economic basis, regions which will never realize their potential unless some means is found of establishing their economy on a 12 month year.
There is a further benefit. If Canadians find that winter recreational facilities are available to them, we can expect that more and more people will, over a period of time, choose to take winter vacations instead of jamming the greater proportion of Canadian vacations into the summer months, which in turn will mean that important employment opportunities in the winter will be available, at least on a temporary basis, to many thousands of people who will supply the places vacant in our factories, businesses and so on to replace vacationing employees. We will find out also that as we are not only interested in providing recreational opportunities for our own people but also for the benefit of foreign tourists, particularly for those people in the United States who come to Canada in search of something different, I am sure that just as Canadians head south for a winter in the sun, United States citizens would find considerable pleasure in the novelty of a winter in the north. But until we provide the kind of
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators accommodation which they expect and which they are accustomed to finding at home, we will never get them.
It comes back to this; that if we are to realize our potential and if we are to develop this industry which is of proven value to the country we must find the means of aiding financially those who are engaged in the business and who want to grow in the business. The government can provide some of the necessary assistance through a program such as is suggested in this resolution. It is to be hoped that the provinces, realizing the value of the industry, will undertake similar programs. I would also express the hope that our regular channels of finance-the banks, the mortgage companies and financial houses-will take a fresh look at the tourist industry in Canada and realize that though at the present time it operates on a season of four or five months, with the proper kind of encouragement, capital addition and development the industry could function during a far longer season. The season could be at least doubled in many areas.
But this will never occur as long as we approach the problem timidly or without imagination. Therefore I feel that we in this house must consider this resolution with imagination and certainly not with timidity, and I hope the government will realize that there is a tremendous opportunity here, and that much can be done. Although there are limitations on the amount of money which the government can make available to any one sector of the economy, there is reason to believe that whatever is spent in this field will be returned to the coffers of the government many times over.


Mr. B. C. Thompson (Northumberland):: Mr. Speaker, inasmuch as the tourist industry is a very important one in my riding, I am very pleased to support the resolution which has been proposed today by the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka (Mr. Aiken).
In doing so I will abide by your observations, sir, and a proper interpretation of the rules of the house, and not speak at any length on the many beauties of my riding and the many attractions which are offered to tourists and travellers. However, I should like to say in passing without covering all my riding that the areas bordering the Trent canal, Presqu'ile provincial park and the district around Rice lake offer almost anything in the way of a tourist attraction that can be asked for by any vacationer.
The resolution which has been proposed asks for government assistance to tourist operators by way of loans for capital improvement, and I feel sure that any hon. member
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Loans to Tourist Resort Operators who has a segment of the tourist industry in his riding will have been made aware of the difficulties of tourist operators in obtaining loans where necessary for improvement or an extension to their establishments. Long term loans, which seem to be the most necessary, are the ones most difficult to obtain. The banks seem to be reluctant to lend money to these people on a long term basis, although the fact that the industry has managed to survive for so long should be an argument in favour of loans being made available. I think a good case can be made out for the tourist industry in Canada and I should like to cover some of the points which I think support this contention.
The tourist industry in Canada has become the third largest industry. Probably not many of us realize that this is the situation, but over the years the industry has grown slowly and without much publicity until it has reached its present dimensions. The industry is national in scope. It extends from coast to coast, and every segment of the Canadian economy benefits from its achievements. Today, every one travels and takes vacations. In the past it was not possible for everyone to travel or take a vacation and this was perhaps a luxury of the well-to-do. In this day, however, vacations and travel are not restricted to one class of people but are taken advantage of by everyone.
Tourism is promoting trade for Canada and in assisting tourism we can help overcome the trade deficit which we have with the United States at the present time and which has been causing us so much concern.
I have in my hand a copy of a pamphlet published by the Canadian tourist association from which I should like to quote concerning Canada's present status in the tourist trade with the United States:
Canada used to get the largest share of the money which United States residents spent visiting other countries, but that is no longer the case. Since 1953, Europe has attracted many more United States visitor dollars than Canada, even without counting the cost of transportation.
Indeed, spending by United States travellers in all countries outside the United States has almost doubled since 1949. But during the same period, United States spending in Canada increased by only 23 per cent.
Canada's overseas competitors for tourists have not only captured the increased business that we might have had, they have quadrupled their share of travel expenditures made by Canadians themselves.
Spending by Canadians abroad has reached such a point that Canadians travelling in the United States and other countries took more than one-half billion dollars out of Canada, in 1957.
I believe a good case can be made out for promoting the Canadian tourist industry and therefore helping to overcome our adverse trade balance. Also, tourism is a means of


promoting national unity, a means by which Canadians can get to know Canada better. I feel the Canadian people should be encouraged to travel across their country and to see the many beauty spots that can be found here at home.
Another feature of the tourist industry is that tourist income as an addition to the wealth of this country takes little if anything from our natural resources. The services which are provided by the tourist industry do not involve any costs for transportation. As I see it, the task of the tourist industry in Canada is twofold. In the first place, the industry wants to persuade Canadians to vacation in Canada and, in the second place, it wants to persuade others to vacation here. To my mind these objectives can be accomplished in two ways. The first is by advertising and the second is by providing enough of the best possible facilities for tourists.
In order to accomplish the latter objective capital is required for improvements and expansion. I am not going to go into any detail about the improvements that are required but certainly we all know that over the years tourist establishments have come to offer a great deal more by way of comfort and convenience than they did, let us say, 20 or 30 years ago. Providing this capital for improvements is an area in which the government can assist to promote the tourist industry of Canada.
Most of the governments at all levels in Canada at the present time are spending a great deal of money in advertising and attracting tourists to our country. It seems to me that money could be made to do even more than it does now by ensuring that no one in this country who is desirous of improving his establishment is unable to do so because of a lack of a source from which to borrow funds. If we place anyone who is desirous of improving his establishment in a position to borrow funds, in that way we are spending good money after good money.
In other countries assistance is given to tourist establishments. In the United States, for instance, under the small business administration provisions a hotel or resort operator can borrow up to $250,000 for renovating or refurnishing for a ten-year term at an interest rate of 5 or 6 per cent depending on the particular application. The United States has also made money available through the export-import bank for the developing of hotels and accommodation in foreign countries. Other countries including Belgium, Ireland, Norway, Great Britain and Switzerland give assistance to their tourist operators by way of various plans. The economic progress of a country is measured

by the impression that is made on the visitors to that country. In my view that impression is made in the places where the visitors stay when they are visiting the country. I am sure we all want to give a good impression of Canada to those who visit this country so they will return with their friends and have the faith in Canada we want them to have.
Having attempted to make out a case for the tourist industry and for the provision of loans to that industry by the government, let us consider just how this assistance might be given. In the first place it could be given by way of a government guaranteed loan similar to those available under the National Housing Act. Secondly, it could be given under the industrial development bank. The industrial development bank which was established in 1944 makes available loans to industrial enterprises. The preamble of the act which incorporated the industrial development bank reads as follows:
Whereas it is desirable to establish an industrial development bank to promote the economic welfare of Canada by increasing the effectiveness of monetary action through ensuring the availability of credit to industrial enterprises which may reasonably be expected to prove successful if a high level of national income and employment is maintained, by supplementing the activities of other lenders and by providing capital assistance to industry with particular consideration to the financing problems of small enterprises-
Tourist operators do not come within the ambit or scope of this act at the present time but it seems to me that if the spirit and wording of this preamble are to be carried to their logical conclusion tourist operators could well be included within the ambit of this legislation. The interpretation section of the act defines industrial enterprise as follows:
2 (d) "industrial enterprise" means a business in which the manufacture, processing or refrigeration of goods, wares and merchandise or the building, alteration or repair of ships or vessels or the generating or distributing of electricity is carried on;-
That was the definition in 1944. In 1956 the definition was extended to take in even more business enterprises. I believe that this statute could be further extended to give some form of loan to our tourist industry and tourist operators. I hope the day is forthcoming when there will be set up in this country a small business agency in government to provide small business liaison with government and advice on assistance measures as announced and outlined in the speech from the throne. Possibly something will be forthcoming when that takes place. I think the measure proposed by the resolution could not help but be of benefit to the country. Benefiting the tourist industry, it is bound to benefit the country as a whole. Therefore
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators I am very pleased to offer my support for the resolution proposed by the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka.


Mr. H. M. Horner (Jasper-Edson):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to take part in the debate and perhaps attack the problem from a little different angle. I think that the motion proposed by the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka (Mr. Aiken) is very good but in my view it does not go far enough. Because tourism is such a great industry in Canada and can become much greater I think we have to do perhaps a little more than the resolution proposes.
To me the industry has four basic components. First of all, there is the basic resource, your beauty, your recreational facility, your developed resource. Second, there is the problem of transportation because no beautiful spot is of any value whatsoever if people cannot get there to look at it. I feel that the third component of the industry is advertising because again if people do not know the beauty is there they are not likely to go to see it. The fourth and primary component is accommodation of the tourist once he gets here, which is what we have been discussing. I submit that any one of the four can have some effect upon the capital required, the type of capital required and the length of time it may be required. Therefore I feel it would be of advantage to have a look at these four basic requirements to see if we can come up with any answers after we do so.
The first one is the basic resource. We in Canada are richly endowed. We have magnificent scenery from coast to coast, some of which has been set aside by previous governments in the form of national parks. I should like to say something about them later. Certainly we have an abundance of beautiful scenery from British Columbia to Newfoundland, anywhere you want to go. We also have an abundance of natural recreational facilities for fishing, hunting and skiing in every province of Canada. Then there are our developed resources of which we have a great many in Canada. We are in the process of finishing one of the greatest, the St. Lawrence seaway, and we are just starting on another, the South Saskatchewan dam. These will be great tourist attractions in the years to come and must be taken into consideration in any discussion of the Canadian tourist industry.
Other developed resources which we have and need more of are those developed for recreation. We need more and better golf courses right across the country. We need more and better fish hatcheries so that we can stock some of our depleted lakes. Then
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Loans to Tourist Resort Operators we will have the actual resource there when we ask people to come and visit us. In nearly every community there is some resource and all that needs to be done is to advertise it and let other people know you have it. The people of Jasper-Edson feel we have been fairly well advertised by the presence of Jasper national park and we have a particular interest in the tourist industry.
The next natural component of the tourist industry which we should discuss is highways and means of transportation to our beauty spots and recreational facilities. I think highways are the most essential accommodation required for our tourists. We have to provide them with decent highways on which to travel. In that regard I should like to suggest that in my part of the country we are waiting anxiously for the completion of the Yellowhead highway. It will be the greatest boon to the tourist industry in northern Alberta since the inception of the province.
Looking at highways nationally, we are nearing the completion of our first trans-Canada highway. We in the west, especially in the northern part of the prairies, would like to see a start on a second trans-Canada highway. I think these highways are primarily for our tourist industry and not primarily for tourists from outside the country because we are tourists when we go to the next town to see what it is like. It is for this great mass of humanity on wheels that we have to have more and better national highways. That deals with the first two components of the tourist industry.
The third one is advertising. We have been spending a considerable amount of money on advertising but I do not feel we have been spending enough because any good business will tell you that there is a direct relationship between good advertising and the profits which accrue to the business. The more you can advertise the better the results will be. It has already been proven in the tourist industry that by a massive type of advertising the number of tourists going to any one particular area can be greatly increased.
Then we come to the question of accommodation, which is directly covered by the resolution. I support the resolution wholeheartedly, not on a socialistic basis, as the hon. member for Port Arthur (Mr. Fisher) has suggested, but rather from the point of view that the government, acting as a catalyst in the tourist industry, can stimulate it and make it grow.


Mr. Herridge:: That is a nice explanation.


Mr. Drysdale:: "Catalyst", not "capitalist".


Hugh Macarthur Horner: I should like to mention some of the particular problems tourist resort operators have in the national parks because here we have an additional factor over and above those encountered by tourist resort operators outside the parks. I may say that this is a very important matter because according to the statistics 75 per cent of the close to two million people who visited the province of Alberta in 1956 entered one of the three national parks. Therefore the whole administration of our national parks, the facilities provided and the operation of tourist resorts in the parks become very important. The tourist operators in the parks are at a disadvantage for the reason that they do not hold title to their land. They have leases which may vary anywhere from 10 years to a maximum of 21 years, but certainly you cannot get a long term loan when you only have a 10-year lease. Therefore these people are at a particular disadvantage. Yet they have a special responsibility in providing accommodation in these show places of Canada.
At a later date I should like to see the government tackle the serious problem of national parks administration, particularly with regard to the matter of townsites within our national parks. I feel very strongly that we must face up to the fact that we have to have townsites in these parks and therefore it is high time that we had some policy with regard to them and set up some sort of local government so that the people could have a say in what is going on in their own towns. Right now they do not.
They are probably the only people in Canada who have no local self-government. The park is administered by a superintendent, and the superintendent refers most things to Ottawa. People who have their affairs administered by someone who is
2,000	miles away may become angry very quickly over the suggestions and decisions meted out by mail or telephone. This will be a difficult problem in the development of our parks as tourist resorts, and as these parks are used more and more by people, not only from outside Canada but inside Canada, as the result of improved highways.
In so far as Canadians are concerned, these parks were set aside for our use. We would like to see better highways and better accommodation provided. If I may, for a few moments, go back over these points, I would say that these assets of the tourist industry seem to fall into the four categories to which I have referred. I should like to make the suggestion at this time that in view of the importance of the tourist industry the government should give consideration to the

establishment of a separate ministry to look after that industry. This ministry should have control over our national highways; over our national parks; over our Canadian travel bureau, and should have a branch which would look after not only the financing of these tourist resorts but also the education of operators in operation and maintenance according to certain standards. It would be, of course, through our national parks that the federal government would get jurisdiction in this regard. I feel such a proposal is worthy of study at the moment because, as I say, our national parks and our national highways are basically a part of this tourist industry. Of course, our Canadian travel bureau would fit into such a ministry, as well. I should like to repeat the suggestion to the government that they give consideration to the establisment of a new ministry, a ministry of tourism, which would look after our national parks, our national highways, and so on.
There is one other point I should like to make. I am in agreement with what the hon. member for Okanagan-Revelstoke (Mr. Fleming) said to the effect that an attempt might be made to make some of our tourist accommodation available on a year-round basis rather than on a seasonal basis. Naturally capital will be needed for such a change because it will cost quite a bit to provide that accommodation. We, in Jasper, are particularly interested in that aspect of the proposal because we have some of the best undeveloped skiing country that there is. We feel that government leadership in this regard would be worth while. I am in agreement with the suggestion made by the hon. member for Calgary South (Mr. Smith) with regard to the winter Olympics in 1964. I have no quarrel with the suggestion, but I would suggest that the winter games be split between Banff and Jasper because by 1964 we hope to have our new road between Banff and Jasper open. I should like to urge upon the government once again that they give serious consideration to the immediate construction of the Yellowhead highway through Edmonton, Kamloops, to Vancouver.
(Translation):


Mr. J. Marcel Bourbonnais (Vaudreuil-Soulanges):: Mr. Speaker, I take pleasure in congratulating the mover of this resolution requesting the government to consider the opportunity of introducing legislation that would authorize loans to tourist resort operators.
I believe that the tourist resorts in Canada are very well kept, and provide at present for the comfort of travellers. But there is always room for improvement. In fact, we have noticed that Americans, this year in
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators particular, are not as numerous as usual in our country. We can therefore well ask ourselves why.
I think that the chief reason is that, in the United States, many of the tourist resorts are superior to ours. Therefore, if we want American tourists to bring to Canada the cash necessary for the development of our tourist industry, it is important that we improve our resorts. It is also important to encourage Canadians of all provinces, from the Atlantic to the Pacific, to visit their own country before going abroad.
It is always agreeable to travel when resorts offer at least a minimum of comfort. Unfortunately, we note that in several places, due to lack of capital, there is no modern accommodation. I think that a well-organized tourist industry would encourage Canadians to visit one another. This would promote national unity, much more than inflated speeches, especially those of the opposition.
There is no more positive way of learning and of getting to know one another than to travel. In this country we really need to know one another better. This country is huge and with the constant improvement in the road system, travel is getting easier all the time. It is possible to travel over considerable distances without a proportionate increase in costs. This means that if tourist facilities are improved, more and more Canadians will be encouraged to travel over greater distances, to visit their fellow-citizens who live far afield and to learn to know one another better.
We all know that the government has already loaned enormous sums to foreign countries. We have in fact lost several million dollars through those deals.
On the other hand if we look at the various steps taken by the government in order to lend money to Canadian farmers, as well as to Canadians in every walk of life, through Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation, we will have noted in this connection most happy results indeed.
Why then should we not enact a measure designed to assist all those people who at the present time operate tourist establishments so as to make it possible for them to improve their business? I feel I may say that the returns will be assured and that we will have no regrets on that score. To obtain good results, we need only place our confidence in our fellow Canadians. The past has demonstrated that fact and the future depends, to some extent, on the past.
Up to this time there has been some friction between the various groups who make up this Canadian nation of ours. These difficulties are disappearing gradually. I could even add that
27S6

Loans to Tourist Resort Operators for a year or so now they have hardly existed at all. We certainly have to agree and live in harmony throughout this country, and I think we now have here a bill that might establish such conditions.
I would feel remiss if I did not say a word about the province of Quebec, particularly after the bad publicity some people are gratuitously giving us. But if you consider the great number of tourists, American as well as Canadian, from the west and from the maritimes, who come and visit our province, you will easily realize that we can live on good terms with any Canadian from one end of the country to the other.
Therefore, it is obvious that our people in Quebec need a certain measure of encouragement in this field on the part of the national government to help improve their present position.
Vaudreuil-Soulanges, the riding I have the honour to represent is one of the most beautiful not only in the province of Quebec but in the whole of Canada. It is an ideal site for tourists. Thousands of them spend their holidays with us each year, more especially in order to visit a district dear to us, which unfortunately is doomed to disappear in the near future, that is to say the area of the Soulange canal. We need back there some industry to replace the one we are losing and the tourist industry would be well suited in this respect.
I therefore commend the mover of this motion. I also ask all my fellow members in this house to support the motion before us so we may soon benefit from its happy effects.
(Text):


Mr. W. M. Howe (Wellingion-Huron):: Mr. Speaker, at this hour of the evening, after practically a full day of debate on a question such as this, it is rather hard to make remarks that are not repetitious. However, I should like to take this opportunity to commend the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka (Mr. Aiken) for introducing a resolution at this time to authorize the making of loans jointly with an approved lending institution to tourist resort operators for the purpose of constructing or making improvements to tourist accommodation.
I feel that this resolution is an extremely important one, first, because it has to do with an industry which, as so many hon. members today have indicated, ranks third in importance in bringing dollars into Canada. In fact, in that respect, I understand it ranks next to newsprint and wheat. Hence it is of great importance to the people of Canada and to our entire economy.
Second, I feel it is important because, in spite of the natural advantages we have in

beautiful rivers and lakes, unexcelled bathing beaches, tremendous mountain ranges and an abundance of good hunting and fishing grounds, the combination of which make for natural tourist attractions all year round; in spite of all these things the tourist industry in Canada has not kept pace with the tourist industry in other countries.
A great many hon. members have extolled the beauty and the attractions to be found in their own ridings. Coming as I do from a riding in western Ontario, perhaps I do not have quite so many natural attractions of which to boast. However, in that connection, I should like to mention the work that has been done by the Grand river conservation commission in providing three lakes which today are attracting a tremendous number of tourists.
Mr. Speaker, there is one thing that it is rather hard to understand in looking back through the records of the last few years. Although the Department of Northern Affairs and National Resources has been spending a great deal of money in promoting this industry and expects to spend over $1.5 million in the coming year to advertise Canada through the media of newspapers, radio, television and magazines, it is hard to understand why there has been so little discussion in this house on this important industry. As I have indicated and as has been indicated by others, it ranks next to wheat in importance in bringing dollars into Canada. I do not want to belittle the position of our wheat industry but if half the time that has been taken up in this house in talking about wheat had been spent in talking about the tourist industry probably we would not be in the deficit position in that respect in which we are today.
There must be a reason why we are losing out in this industry, why more people are not coming to Canada and why more of our own people are travelling in other countries. I feel that this resolution gives us an opportunity to examine this entire question so that steps may be taken not only to attract tourists to Canada but to make their stay in Canada more pleasant and happy.
This resolution has to do with the provision of tourist accommodation. As the brief of the Canadian tourist association would indicate, some of our present tourist accommodation is many years old. The people who travel make comparisons; and if the cost is not as fair as it is elsewhere, the surroundings not as pleasant, the food not as tasty or not served in as bright and pleasant surroundings and if. the accommodation lacks all the modern facilities for comfort and convenience, then in spite of our natural attractions the tourist may not return and

will not be an advertising medium through which more people will be attracted to Canada.
As one of the briefs presented would indicate, it is of no use to advertise if we cannot handle the customers. It is of no use to build up our plant if we are not prepared to take adequate steps to keep those customers. There are many media through which the tourist's stay and travel in Canada can be made more pleasant. I sometimes feel that our railroads could do more in helping to hold and to increase this very important industry. Too often we find, as in my part of the country, the railroad facilities taking the tourist to the lovely summer resorts on the shores of lake Huron and Georgian bay are uncomfortable and inadequate. Too often we find on busy week ends, when more people are travelling to these resorts, some of the oldest coaches that were ever made are pressed into service, coaches with hard seats and with no modern air-conditioning facilities, and tourists are compelled to use these coaches at the end of a long and tiresome journey. Certainly these conditions do not improve public relations as far as the tourist industry is concerned. No doubt there are many people who, in spite of the beauty of these resorts and the relaxation to be found there, prefer to go some place else rather than take these arduous train trips.
In the same connection, may I say that I sometimes wonder whether our provincial governments in their road-building programs give proper consideration to the fact that considerable inconvenience is caused to the tourist during the summer vacation period, and the heavy tourist season, by broken-up roads and rough, dusty detours.
Today, as figures indicate, more and more of our people from Canada are travelling abroad rather than investigating and enjoying the wonderful natural beauty that we have in Canada. In travelling abroad they will compare the accommodation provided. Does ours compare favourably with what they will find abroad? Is it as convenient and is it as comfortable? Through this resolution ways and means will be provided so that this accommodation in Canada may be improved and as indicated by the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka (Mr. Aiken) and the hon. member for Northumberland (Mr. Thompson) there are indications of what is being done in this connection by means of providing loans in the United States. Many countries in the world appreciate the importance of the tourist industry and Professor L. Dudley Stamp of the London University, London, England, has this to say in a very interesting little bulletin put out by the Canadian tourist association:
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators
Tourism is the most important industry today without any exception whatever. It employs more people and has a larger turn-over of money than any other.
I feel Canada should do something concrete to assist this industry. We are living in a high cost economy; we have money or we have found money for our home builders, our farmers and our industrialists through the medium of government loans and the same principle holds good in respect of the tourist industry where the cost of modern accommodation has gone up by leaps and bounds and it is impossible for the small operator to provide the requirements.
Finally, I would again like to commend the member who, through the medium of this resolution has brought this matter to the attention of the government and I sincerely hope it will receive the consideration it deserves.


Mr. W. G. Beech (York South):: Mr. Speaker, in rising to speak in support of this resolution I would like to say a word or two from the point of view of the travel agent. I do not think I will be called to order for speaking at great length about the tourist attractions of my riding because, although we have some buildings which might be worth seeing, we have not even a post office to show you, a fact which I have mentioned previously in this house. We do have, however, 120,000 people, each one of whom is a potential customer for the tourist operator, which should be of the greatest interest to those concerned.
Much has already been said about the importance of the tourist trade to our economy and if we are to correct the imbalance in this trade as it relates to that of other countries we will have to do everything possible to attract overseas tourists to Canada. To this end the operations of camp, motels, lodges, restaurants and all other establishments catering to the tourist industry must be equipped in order to provide the facilities obtainable in foreign countries. As it would benefit everyone I have no hesitation in supporting the making available of money at the going rate to enable these operators to equip their premises in a suitable manner. One of the immediate effects of lending such funds for this purpose would be that the lenders would be able to exercise some supervision over operations in order to safeguard their interests and the tourist business is a field in which we have been falling down despite the excellent work done by the Canadian tourist association and the various provincial travel departments.

Loans to Tourist Resort Operators
The travel agent constantly receives complaints from his clients about food, facilities, rates and even lack of courtesy in some of our tourist resorts and, as he depends on repeat business for his livelihood, the travel agent is not likely to send clients to places where they will be dissatisfied. At one time a client of mine was telling me about the meal situation in some of our resorts and he made the remark that when you go into some of these places you never know whether you are going to get a burnt offering or a bloody sacrifice. In some cases this is truly indicative of what happens.
It is only recently that in Canada the value of the travel agent has been recognized in the promotion of the tourist trade but we still have a long way to go before the same benefits now accruing to foreign travel as a result of his services will be available to the Canadian travel industry. In Canada there are many tourist resorts which favourably compare with any in the world and many thousands of dollars are spent annually on advertising these resorts through various media. Yet there is very little if any encouragement given to the travel agent by way of information concerning facilities, rates, reservations or commissions. Most of such agents make no charge for their services and depend upon commissions paid by the resort and the carriers in order to operate their businesses. People are now becoming aware of this fact and are going to the travel agent for advice when they consider where to go for their holidays. Needless to say they are being advised to go to places which provide the most profit for their agent and, as pointed out by the hon. member for Niagara Falls (Mr. Houck), the commissions paid by carriers for international travel are in a higher range than those paid for domestic travel. Even with respect to railways the European carriers pay commissions whereas no such commission on rail travel is paid in this country except in respect of the odd excursion, despite the fact that thousands of dollars are collected by the travel agents on behalf of the railways.
While there has been over the past few years a considerable increase in international travel there are still many thousands of our citizens who would prefer to spend their holidays in Canada. This is in some cases because these people have a "see Canada first" policy and in others because their means do not permit them to travel long distances, because their time is limited or because they prefer to spend their time at Canadian resorts. There are thousands who seek the advice of travel agents with respect to where they should spend their long week ends and there are many such places within easy reach which should be publicized and developed. No one
TMr. Beech.]
can do this better than the travel agent if he is given the proper information with which to work. I can only speak with respect to the province of Ontario because that is the only province of which I have any knowledge, but the department of travel and publicity in Ontario issues periodical information concerning motels, lodges and resorts in various parts of the province. This is particularly valuable because many people have no idea where they should spend their holidays and it is very handy to be able to go to a travel agent and get this information.
Complaints have been received that commercial fishermen have been allowed to deplete the stocks of fish in areas which might better have been designated tourist areas and a very good example of this is in the Georgian bay area where millions of dollars have been lost in the tourist business because of the loss of the lake trout fishing. Much of this has been lost because of the depredations of the lamprey, but I think a great deal of it can be attributed to the fact that the commercial fishermen were allowed to work in there, and they certainly depleted those stocks. Another complaint is that in certain provinces the liquor laws are too stringent.
The hon. member for Niagara Falls mentioned the operators who used the United States flag as a come-on. There is another type of operator who has a big sign advertising gasoline for 39 cents a gallon. Underneath, in very much smaller type, is added the fraction "nine-tenths" so as to be scarcely visible until you reach the point where you have to buy gasoline. In my opinion this is a sharp practice. It does not enhance the prestige of the Canadian businessman, and all these things do not encourage tourists to return to our country.
The best advertisement we can get is a satisfied tourist who goes back and tells his friends what a fine time he had in Canada. Tourism should be developed in such a way as to encourage a repeat business. Since everyone benefits as the tourist trade prospers, it is the business of everyone to foster that development, including the operator for whose benefit this resolution is designed. I congratulate the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka (Mr. Aiken) on having introduced this resolution, and on the manner in which he presented it, and I trust the government will give it favourable consideration. (Translation):


Mr. L. J. Pigeon (Joliette-L'Assompiion-Montcalm):: Mr. Speaker, there is possibly no greater source of wealth for a country than its tourist industry. That is why municipal and provincial governments should encourage that industry, and should also encourage the

citizens of this country to put money into the construction of motels, for instance, or other tourist facilities so as to ensure the future of the industry.
I congratulate the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka (Mr. Aiken) for introducing this resolution, though I feel that it would have been just as simple to ask the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Green) to bring in amendments to the Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation Act so as to make it possible for the corporation to make loans for construction of hotels and motels, thereby promoting the development of the tourist industry throughout this country.
To my mind it would also be in order to call a federal-provincial conference on the subject in order to bring all the provincial governments into contact and make it possible for them to exchange ideas so as to implement a uniform policy throughout Canada. Not only would this be more effective in also attracting American tourists but it would attract visitors from other countries.
It is a recognized fact that the national economy of France has been maintained through its tourist industry.
Other countries, all but devoid of natural resources, have developed the tourist trade to such an extent that they have managed to put their natural economy in balance by attracting tourists in various ways.
I would also like the government to continue to develop national historic sites here and there throughout this country. I might point out in this connection that in recent months the Prime Minister (Mr. Diefen-baker) presided at the opening of Cartier-Brebeuf park in Quebec city thereby making the public aware of an important area of this country which up to now had remained unknown. This location has now become a nationally important site and is attracting tourists from one end of this country to the other.
I would also suggest to the hon. Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources (Mr. Hamilton) to erect historic monuments here and there in order that the Canadians themselves may travel from coast to coast and visit those places which have witnessed the deeds of the greatest figures of our national history.
Several important events have taken place this year in our country. In fact, Quebec city is now commemorating the 350th anniversary of its foundation by Samuel de Champlain. British Columbia is commemorating its 100th anniversary. St. Boniface is celebrating the golden jubilee of its foundation. I am of the opinion that these events are bound to stimulate the influx of tourists, not to mention the fact that they
28, 1958	2799
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators will encourage Canadians themselves to visit their own country, while offering them the opportunity of better appreciating, understanding and knowing each other.
It is needless to remind you that the province of Quebec occupies perhaps the most important place from a tourist standpoint, in view of its particular character, history and monuments. Everybody admits that it has greatly developed its tourist industry.
The other provinces are also attaching growing importance to the tourist industry. That is why I believe that if, some day, the provinces should meet on a national level to discuss their tourist programs and exchange their views, this would contribute to stimulate the tourist industry, in other words it would be a service to our country.
Each year, Calgary has its stampede. Each year, in the Palais du Commerce, at Montreal, there is a national agricultural exhibition. Well, Mr. Speaker, the setting up of such organizations calls for much work and sacrifices on the part of those who devote themselves to such tasks. They thus contribute to enrich our country, while offering to tourists, American or others, the opportunity to visit Canada.
Mr. Speaker, a moment ago, I said that France had managed to balance her economy, thanks to the tourist industry. Well, we should pay particular attention to the tourist industry, because I am of the opinion that it is the most important in the country. Our country is young, yet of great historical interest, being the cradle of New France as well as of those people who came from abroad to found here a civilization.
I am sure that all right-thinking Canadians believe that governments, at every level, should invest more money to help private enterprise undertake the necessary construction works and development of facilities required by the tourist industry across the country, in order that foreigners coming to visit our country may be well accommodated and well fed, so that our Canadian tourist industry can maintain its reputation.
When, for instance, Canadians or Americans go to France, they say: "We are happy to go to Paris because there we eat well and we see some lovely landmarks". That, to my mind, is why the government must be encouraged to invest more capital in this great natural resource, the tourist industry.
That is why, Mr. Speaker, I commend the hon. member for introducing his resolution and I also would suggest, if possible, that provincial governments meet at least once a year at the national level, to study their
2800	HOUSE OF
Loans to Tourist Resort Operators various points of view on the tourist industry, which I think is the most important in our country.
I shall conclude my remarks, Mr. Speaker, by saying that after the current session, hon. members from all parts of our country should start giving an example and visit Canada. Those from the west, for instance, could exchange visits with their representatives of central Canada and while giving leadership in this respect they would be able to know and to appreciate each other better.
I would encourage every hon. member of this house and all Canadians to visit my riding which is one of the richest from a geographic, economic and touristic point of view.
Indeed, you will find in my county the town of St. Lin, where our great autonomist, Sir Wilfrid Laurier was born, who would today sit in the ranks of the Conservative party if he were still living.
There is also the College of l'Assomption, where Sir Wilfrid Laurier was a pupil and, of course also the town of Joliette, on the banks of the Assomption river, which was founded by the Sieur Barthelemy de Joliette.
That is, Mr. Speaker, a very brief list of the touristic attractions in my riding.
There is also another place, the old manor of Mrs. McConville, where the late Lord Bennett spent a few days every year. These are resorts which deserve being known.
I therefore again urge all hon. members, as well as all Canadian citizens, to visit the riding of Joliette-L'Assomption-Montcalm which is really a jewel from a tourist's point of view.
We should always keep in mind that the tourist industry is one of the most important industries of our country. Every citizen, whoever he may be, has the civic responsibility to try and make his small community, his home town, his own Canadian country, more attractive.
I therefore want to commend the hon. member who moved the resolution and I am asking the government, whether municipal, provincial or federal, to consider whether it would be opportune to subsidize that kind of private enterprise, so as to give to our municipalities, our provinces and our country as a whole, incomparable attraction which would draw large numbers of tourists to our country where they would spend the amount of dollars necessary to our economy.


Mr. Thsogene Ricard (St. Hyacinthe-Bagot):: Mr. Speaker, although the riding of St. Hyacinthe-Bagot, and not St. Hyacinthe Baghdad, as it has once been called in this house, is not
fMr. Pigeon.]

particularly known as a riding where the tourist industry is of prime importance, everyone would do well to visit it and specially the city of St. Hyacinthe which is rightly called St. Hyacinthe the fair one.
Mr. Speaker, even if this means repeating something that has already been said, I want to congratulate the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka (Mr. Aiken) for his fine contribution in submitting this resolution to the house. His speech was clear, concise and intelligent, as well as realistic. This resolution deserves the serious consideration of all members of the house. I therefore ask hon. members, no matter where they sit in this house, to give full consideration to his resolution.
Everyone is aware of the fact that the tourist industry brings us each year millions of dollars. A large number of small villages which, for the rest of the year, are barely known, become real cities during the tourist season owing to the large number of tourists coming in. It follows, of course, that trade expands considerably in such communities and that farmers as well as tradesmen take advantage of it. Everybody knows, without a doubt, that the province of Quebec offers exceptional attractions for tourists. There is the old Quebec inside Quebec city, which is of particular interest to the tourist. I may say that each year thousands of American tourists go there for a visit.
We have also, as was mentioned by the hon. member for Kootenay West (Mr. Her-ridge) when he was speaking about his own riding, lakes by the thousands where fish is plentiful, where boating is practised on a large scale, and where the scenery is perhaps the main attraction for the tourists.
I therefore wish that this matter of tourist industry be seriously considered by the federal, provincial and municipal governments; I hope they will co-operate closely in order to develop this industry which brings us each year large sums of money.
It has become a common practice in the industry to grant workers and labourers longer and longer holidays, which allows them to put their spare time to good use, by improving their family's general knowledge through visits to these nationally important sites in their province or in the rest of the country.
It is therefore highly important to recognize the value of that industry, which is becoming one of the leading industries in this country, and to provide it with the assistance needed for its development.
For these reasons, Mr. Speaker, I feel that
the resolution put forward by the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka (Mr. Aiken)

would contribute to the development of this country. So, while reiterating once more what I have just said, I would ask all hon. members to support the proposal, as I intend doing myself.
(Text):


Mr. H. C. McQuillan (Comox-Alberni):: Mr. Speaker, I see I have only time to say a very few words.


Some hon. Members:: Question. Ten o'clock. Mr. Speaker: Order. I think it is perhaps too late for the hon. member to commence.
Business of the House BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE


Mr. Chevrier:: Mr. Speaker, the business of the house having already been announced for tomorrow, I wonder if the house leader would indicate what the business will be on Wednesday?


Mr. Green:: No, Mr. Speaker, I cannot do that. It will depend on what progress we make tomorrow.


[Stage Direction]
At ten o'clock the house adjourned, without question put, pursuant to standing order.
[Stage Direction]
Question

[Stage Direction]
The following answer, deposited with the Clerk of the house, is printed in the official report of debates pursuant to standing order 39:

Mr. Rouleau: 1.	Have any contracts been awarded to Canadair company, of St. Laurent, Quebec, since August 10, 1953?
2.	If so, how many, what is the nature of each contract and what was the amount of each such contract?
Answer by: Hon. Raymond O'Hurley (Minister
of Defence Production):
1.	Yes.
2.	(a) The Department of Defence Production has awarded 182 contracts, $10,000 or more, having a total value of $340,060,869.48, from August 10, 1953, to June 30, 1958. The nature and value of each contract are shown on the attached lists.
(b) The Department of Defence Production has awarded 375 contracts, under $10,000, having a total value of $503,493.05, from August 10, 1953, to June 10, 1957; and 91 contracts, under $10,000, having a total value of $107,875.46, from June 11, 1957, to June 30, 1958.
Unclassified Contracts for $10,000 or more Awarded to Canadair Limited, St. Laurent, P.Q., by the Department of Defence Production from August 10, 1953, to June 30, 1958.
Date		Value
of	Item	(per latest
Contract		amendment)

Oct. 9,1953	F-86 aircraft spares	
1,734,306.85Oct. 19,1953	capital equipment to extend aircraft assembly line	
165,341.00May 26,1954	security fencing and rearrangement of floodlighting	
17,490.00May 27,1954	engineering and development of CP-107 (CL-28)	
20,969,100.00May 27, 1954	tooling for CP-107 (CL-28)	
25,265,000.00May 27,1954	production of CP-107 (CL-28)	
103,500,000.00July 9,1954	F-86 aircraft spares	
1,986,659.51Oct. 28,1954	Velvet glove guided missile	
10,437.11Dec. 10,1954	production of F-86E Mk. 6 aircraft	
25,000,000.00Mch. 31, 1955	field service representatives	
254,800.00Apr. 15,1955	engineering, development and manufacture of suspension units	
91,312.72May 11,1955	capital equipment for velvet glove project	
235,271.98July 6, 1955	manufacture, installation, instrumentation and testing of area rule modification onF-86 Mlc.V aircraft	
63,963.81Aug. 23,1955	production of T-33 airframes	
13,776,400.00Nov. 4,1955	design and engineering of aircraft systems trainer for CP-107 (CL-28) aircraft...	526,000.00Nov. 4,1955	design and development of ground handling equipment for CP-107 (CL-28) aircraft	100,000.00Apr. 26,1956	manufacture of aircraft systems trainer for CP-107 (CL-28) aircraft	
1,200,000.00May 7,1956	technical representatives	
268,500.00June 15,1956	design, engineering and production of light snow tractors	
350,000.00May 15,1956	production of CP-107 (CL-28)	
10,000,000.00Feb. 14,1957	vertical take-off and landing design study	
30,000.00Mch. 5,1957	pre-production planning and engineering for Sparrow II missile	
8,000,000.00Mch.	5,1957	tooling for Sparrow II missile	
2,250,000.00Mch.	29,	1957	tooling for Sparrow II simulated aerodynamic vehicles	
52,781.00Mch.	29,	1957	Sparrow II simulated aerodynamic vehicles	
460,044.20July	19,	1957	production of Sparrow II Mod. "D" missile	
800,000.00Oct. 23,1957	license agreement for CP-107 (CL-28)	
294,117.65Nov. 13,1957	design and development of Sparrow II ground handling equipment	
99,572.00Feb. 7,1958	engineering assistance for ballistic missile defence studies	
10,000.00Mch. 7,1958	component for flight simulator	
58,300.00May 29, 1958	engineering and analytical assistance for guided missile research	and systemsstudy programmes	
50,000.00Aug. 13,1953	miscellaneous aircraft accessories	
27,233.85Nov. 26, 1953	Dakota airframe spares	
258,124.42Dec. 17,1953	sling assemblies	
170,046.22Jan. 7,1954	field service representatives	
275,000.00Jan. 8, 1954	preparation and production of technical publication for engine run-up	units for F-86aircraft	
37,000.00Feb. 11,1954	repair, overhaul, etc., of T-33 mobile training unit	
10,000.00Feb. 11,1954	repair, overhaul, etc., of T-33 aircraft in the United Kingdom and Europe	
140,000.00Feb. 15,1954	miscellaneous aircraft spares and accessories (airborne)	
61,550.23Feb. 19,1954	F-86 airframe spares	
308,550.00Feb. 24,1954	T-33 airframe spares	
854,645.00Mch. 26, 1954	preparation and production of instrument accessory publication for T-33 aircraft.	36,917.86Apr. 5,1954	capital equipment for repair, etc., of F-86 aircraft	
165,341.00Apr. 20,1954	aircraft test equipment	
16,753.00Apr. 20,1954	F-86E airframe spares	
2,839,345.00
Question
Unclassified Contracts for $10,000 or more Awarded to Canadair Limited, St. Laurent, P.Q., by the Department of Defence Production from August 10, 1953, to June 30, 1958-Continued
Date	Value
of	Item	(per latest
Contract	amendment)

May	11, 1954	modification kits for J-47 run-up unit	
37,838.91May	13,1954	aircraft spares	
16,736.34June	8, 1954	technical publications	
42,957.64July	9,1954	North Star airframe spares	
75,315.65July	15,1954	aircraft ground handling equipment	
16,418.73Sept.	15,1954	field service representatives	
81,999.61Sept.	30, 1954	technical training aids for F-86 aircraft	
318,838.49Oct.	7,1954	F-86 aircraft general spares	
12,182.05Oct.	14,1954	F-86 aircraft accessories	
85,819.93Oct.	29,1954	Dakota airframe spares	
85,662.09Nov.	5, 1954	technical training aids for F-86 aircraft	
83,716.19Nov.	24, 1954	kits, data and spare parts for C-47 and C-54 aircraft	
729,319.76Dec.	13,1954	aircraft accessories and electrical equipment	
612,075.61Jan.	3,1955	aircraft ground handling stores	
47,361.38Jan.	3,1955	aircraft ground handling stores	
35,050.97Jan.	3,1955	T-33 Mk.3 airframe spares	
1,212,639.63Jan.	3,1955	aircraft armament equipment	
26,281.08Jan.	20,1955	aircraft instruments	
37,934.82Jan.	27,1955	Dakota airframe spares	
83,742.46Feb.	1,1955	reconditioning of T-33 Mk.l aircraft	
300,000.00Feb.	8,1955	ground handling equipment stores	
55,823.22Mar. 2,1955	F-86 modification kits	
200,000.00Mar. 4,1955	F-86 Mk.5 airframe spares	
1,839,252.23Mar. 25,1955	F-86 Mk.6 aircraft spares	
1,000,000.00Mar. 29,1955	T-33 airframe spares and special tools	
320,000.00Mar. 29,1955	C-5 executive North Star airframe spares	
65,000.00Mar. 30,1955	F-86 Mk.2 airframe spares	
670,243.66Mar. 31,1955	North Star airframe spares	
97,830.00Mar. 31,1955	F-86 Sabre airframe spares	
650,000.00Mar. 31,1955	North Star airframe spares	
31,350.12Apr. 15,1955	electrical actuator assemblies	
18,008.15May 19,1955	F-86 spares	
10,682.10June 13,1955	F-86 aircraft spares	
979,519.46July 7,1955	technical publications for F-86 aircraft	
351,660.65July 18,1955	F-86 airframe spares	
465,000.00Aug. 9, 1955	repair, overhaul, etc., of F-86 aircraft and spares	
100,000.00Aug. 10, 1955	aircraft accessories and electrical equipment	
20,019.98Aug. 19, 1955	spare parts and special tools for F-86 aircraft	
13,441,283.84Aug. 31,1955	modification kits	
11,102.65Sept. 1,1955	technical publications	
2,320,000.00Sept. 20, 1955 aircraft instruments and navigational equipment	
14,189.01Nov. 4,1955	aircraft spares	
19,158.26Nov. 8,1955	Dakota airframe spares	
126,500.00Nov. 22, 1955	T-33 modification kits	
17,846.37Nov. 29, 1955	T-33 Mk. 3 airframe spares	
258,040.59Dec. 5, 1955	spare parts for C-47, C-54 and C-117 aircraft	
349,512.19Dec. 6,1955	miscellaneous aircraft accessories	
75,317.02Dec. 22,1955	aircraft general hardware	
11,943.05Jan. 6,1956	wiring harness	
11,519.08Jan. 19, 1956	F-86 Mks. 5 and 6 airframe spares	
243,105.14Feb. 15,1956	F-86 Mk. 2 airframe spares	
173,635.00Feb. 16,1956	miscellaneous aircraft accessories	
44,953.85Mch. 20, 1956	services of technical representatives	
22,388.00Mch. 20, 1956	aircraft modification kits	
14,347.80Mch. 26, 1956	construction of an extension to building	
71,000.00Mch. 27, 1956	F-86 airframe spares	
100,000.00Mch. 29, 1956	aircraft components	
191,600.29Apr. 17,1956	spares for aircraft servicing equipment	
17,278.53Apr. 17,1956	North Star airframe spares	
32,970.80Apr. 19,1956	miscellaneous airframe spares	
11,779.84Apr. 20,1956	aircraft electrical equipment	
12,846.57Apr. 25,1956	technical services	
36,630.00May 11, 1956	repair, overhaul, etc., of F-86 airframes and airframe components	
5,050,000.00May 14, 1956	repair, overhaul and reduction to spares of T-33 airframes and airframe components. 3,230,000.00May 15,1956	airframe spares for CL-28	
5,373,773.50May 22,1956	field service representatives	
130,000.00May 23, 1956	repair and overhaul of F-86 and miscellaneous airframe spares	
900,000.00May 29, 1956	repairs, etc., to North Star airframe spares and components	
2,120,000.00May 30, 1956	repairs, etc., to aircraft mobile training unit	
20,000.00May 30, 1956	repairs, etc., to aircraft mobile training unit	
10,000.002804	HOUSE OF COMMONS
Question
Unclassified Contracts for $10,000 or more Awarded to Canadair Limited. St. Laurent, P.Q., by the Department of Defence Production from August 10, 1953, to June 30, 1958-Concluded
Date	Value
of	Item	(per latest
Contract	amendment)

May 31,1956	miscellaneous aircraft spares	
240,000.00June 14,1956	aircraft ground handling equipment	
850,000.00June 15, 1956	construction of a bridge at Cartierville airport	
75,000.00July 30,1956	aircraft electrical equipment	
54,491.84Aug. 3,1956	aircraft components	
29,348.21Aug. 3,1956	aircraft electrical equipment	
26,763.84Aug. 9, 1956	aircraft spares, technical data, drawings and technical personnel for aircraft repairs, etc	
1,700,000.00Aug. 28,1956	aircraft VuGraph transparencies	
165,000.00Sept. 10, 1956	CL-28 aircraft spares	
713,007.49Sept. 12, 1956	F-86 aircraft spares	
285,000.00Sept. 14,1956' miscellaneous aircraft spares	
40,717.66Sept. 20, 1956	North Star airframe spares	
10,000.00Sept. 25, 1956	services of technical representatives	
131,400.00Sept. 27, 1956	revision of F-86 aircraft engineering orders	
306,618.98Oct. 9,1956	T-33 airframe spares	
198,000.00Oct. 17,1956	revision of aircraft engineering orders	
186,222.90Oct. 17,1956	revision of aircraft engineering orders	
100,000.00Oct. 23,1956	F-86 airframe spares	
625,000.00Oct. 24,1956	Dakota airframe spares	
179,802.00Dec. 5,1956	production of CC-106 (CL-44) aircraft	
24,000,000.00Dec. 10,1956	T-33 airframe spares	
50,000.00Dec. 14,1956	tooling for CC-106 (CL-44)	
10,100,000.00Dec. 17,1956	aircraft electrical equipment	
3,202,720.75Dec. 18, 1956	engineering and development for production	of CC-106 (CL-44) aircraft	
8,500,000.00Jan. 3, 1957	T-33 airframe spares and special tools	
200,000.00Jan. 15,1957	North Star airframe spares	
60,000.00Feb. 4,1957	Dakota airframe spares	
69,637.64Feb. 6,1957	F-86 airframe spares	
315,000.00Feb. 12, 1957	repairs to CL-28 airframes and aircraft components	
50,000.00Feb. 18,1957	aircraft armament equipment	
24,719.75Mch. 22, 1957	capital equipment for use in CP-107 (CL-28)	aircraft	
862,145.00Mch. 28, 1957	repairs to aircraft system trainers	
10,000.00Mch. 29, 1957	F-86 airframe spares	
325,146.00Apr. 10,1957	field service representatives	
169,436.00Apr. 23,1957	Dakota airframe spares	
80,000.00May 2,1957	F-86 airframe spares	
750,000.00May 15,1957	revisions and/or re-issues to engineering orders	
321,300.00June 20,1957	aircraft instrument spares	
329,785.50July 9,1957	revisions or re-issues to engineering orders	
95,000.00Aug. 22,1957	revisions or re-issues to engineering orders	
240,000.00Aug. 22,1957	CP-107 (CL-28) airframe spares	
100,000.00Aug. 29,1957	engineering study and development for aerial	delivery of a light cargo carrier....	21,010.55Oct. 8,1957	F-86 overhaul spares	
276,200.00Oct. 23,1957	float fuel level valve	
25,987.50Nov. 4,1957	aircraft spares	
14*339.47Nov. 14, 1957	aircraft modification kits	
800^000.00Nov. 18, 1957	T-33 airframe spares	
320,995.50Nov. 28, 1957	spares for airborne electronic equipment	
318,568.80Dec. 11,1957	aircraft spares	
15,698.54Dec. 27,1957	F-86 airframe spares	
659,455.00Jan. 15,1957	Dakota exhaust collector rings	
102,399.80Feb. 6,1957	CP-107 (CL-28) aircraft hose spares	
10,560.00Mch. 5,1958	North Star airframe spares	
15,816.70Mch. 24, 1958	Dakota airframe spares	
109,615.75Apr. 1,1958	Eland Convair 440 (CL-66) aircraft	
10,000,000.00Apr. 21,1958	miscellaneous aircraft spares and accessories	
120,000.00May 9, 1958	repair, overhaul, etc., of North Star airframe	spares	
682,000.00May 16, 1958	repair, overhaul, etc., of T-33 airframes and	airframe components	
733,000.00May 21,1958	airframe spares	
10,134.80May 22,1958	repair, overhaul, etc., of F-86 airframe and airframe components	
762,000.00May 26, 1958	repair, overhaul, etc., of F-86 and miscellaneous airframe spares	
451,000.00June 3,1958	T-33 Mk. 3 airframe spares	
63,800.00June 3,1958	aircraft spares	
260,093.03June 11,1958	field service representatives	
96,000.00June 16,1958	F-86 aircraft spares	
16,167.58June 17,1958	aircraft spares	
11,653.25June 24,1958 aircraft spares	
294^ 151.85
Tuesday, July 29, 1958