1958-05-22

THE BUDGET

[Stage Direction]
INQUIRY AS TO PROBABLE DATE OF '	PRESENTATION
On the orders of the day:
Hon. L. B. Pearson (Leader of Ihe Opposition):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask the Minister of Finance whether, in view of the speculation in the press, informed or uninformed, he would be able to give the house any indication as to the date on which the budget will be brought down?


Hon. Donald M. Fleming (Minister of Finance):: Mr. Speaker, I am sure the Leader of the Opposition does not need to be warned against the danger of paying too much attention to press speculation. No date has been set as yet, but when a date has been set it will be communicated to the house.



TRANSPORT


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Harold E. Winch (Vancouver East):: I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Transport, of which I have given him notice. Has the minister received from the clerk of the British Columbia legislature a motion to the effect that the British Columbia legislature requests increased federal responsibility for assisting necessary steamship and air transportation and communication along British Columbia's coast and in the north, with particular reference to the maintenance of basic steamer services and the establishment of air strips in otherwise isolated areas? If so, can the minister advise the house what consideration is being given to this request of the British Columbia legislature?


Hon. George H. Hees (Minisfer of Transport):: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I did receive such a resolution from the provincial secretary of British Columbia. I advised the provincial secretary that the federal government presently subsidizes passenger and cargo services to the north part of the mainland
coast and the west coast of Vancouver island, and has under consideration proposals for extending essential water services to certain other coastal communities.
With respect to air services, it is our policy to encourage and assist their development by assisting in the construction of airports and air strips where such facilities are warranted.
The portion of the resolution requesting assistance in highway construction is not a matter dealt with by my department, and I advised the provincial secretary that I would bring this to the attention of my colleague the Minister of Public Works, whose department is more directly concerned with highway construction matters.



GREAT SLAVE LAKE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. M. A. Hardie (Mackenzie River):: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources is in a position to answer my question of Tuesday last with regard to the Great Slave lake railroad.


Hon. Alvin Hamilton (Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources):: In answer to the hon. member for Mackenzie River last Tuesday, I said I would look into this matter. I have not yet received any answer from the railway companies. It is their report, and it is their property.


Mervyn Arthur Hardie: May I take it that the minister has a report, and that the only difficulty now lies in tabling it?


Francis Alvin George Hamilton: Far from it, Mr. Speaker. As a courtesy the railways gave us this report. It is their property and I have no right to table it without their permission, which I am doubtful they will give.



IMMIGRATION


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. L. D. Crestohl (Cartier):: I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. Is the cut of $4,731,000 shown in the immigration estimates tabled last week an economy resulting from the fact that there are no immigrants available for Canada, or is it an economy resulting
338	HOUSE OF
Inquiries of the Ministry from the stoppage or selectiveness of immigration to Canada as announced by the government last June and again early this year?


Mr. Speaker:: I ask the hon. member to reconsider that question. It seems to me that in the form in which he puts it, it is an anticipation of the discussion of the estimates of the department. If he were asking for information as to the current flow of immigrants it might be different, but in its present form I believe I must count it as an anticipation of the discussion of the estimates.


Leon David Crestohl: Perhaps I could reword my question and simply inquire upon what this economy of $4,731,000 is based?


Mr. Speaker:: I am afraid the hon. member has not fully appreciated my point, because that is strictly a matter which will be raised on the estimates, and I cannot allow the question in that form.



C. G. HANNA  INQUIRY AS TO PRESENT STATUS

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. J. W. Pickersgill (Bonavisla-Twillingaie):: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if I could address a question to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. Could the hon. lady tell the house whether a decision has yet been reached about a permanent landing for Mr. Christian George Hanna?


Hon. Ellen L. Fairclough (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration):: Mr. Speaker, in view of the press reports this morning we have sent for a report on the incident, but this has not yet been received.


John Whitney Pickersgill: That, Mr. Speaker, was not my question.



TELEVISION


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Erhart Regier (Burnaby-Coquitlam):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of National Revenue in connection with the C.B.C. Will the issue of private television stations in Vancouver, Winnipeg, Toronto and Montreal have to wait for a solution until the new agency forecast in the speech from the throne is established?


Hon. George C. Nowlan (Minister of National Revenue):: The hon. member was
good enough to send me notice of this question, Mr. Speaker. The government is giving consideration to this matter of relaxing the regulation concerning competition between television stations in certain areas. I am not committing myself to the geographical locations named by the hon. member, but am


speaking generally to that problem. When a decision is arrived at it will be announced to the house. My own thinking is that if it should be decided by the government to relax this regulation in any way, applications would be deferred until such time as the legislation envisaged in the speech from the throne has been enacted by parliament.



LABOUR CONDITIONS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Lester Bowles Pearson: Mr. Speaker, I should like to address an inquiry to the Minister of Labour. In view of the deplorable number of accidents in the mines in the Blind River-EUiot Lake area, would the minister consider instituting an inquiry into this matter? Last January 29, when this matter was brought up, he said he would consider the matter. I wonder whether he would look into it again.


Hon. Michael Slarr (Minister of Labour):: In answer to the question asked by the Leader of the Opposition, may I say that the same question was given to me as notice by the hon. member for Timmins (Mr. Martin) today. Upon investigation when this matter was raised last year we were advised that safety in these mines comes under provincial jurisdiction. I must say that no consideration has been given as yet to instituting any inquiry into the matter because it comes within provincial jurisdiction.



EXTERNAL AFFAIRS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. H. W. Herridge (Kootenay West):: wish to address a question to the Secretary of State for External Affairs. I must apologize for the fact that I have changed it slightly since sending him notice. I might say that it was conceived in great haste and modified after reflection upon the rules of the house.
In view of the reported statement of Secretary of State John Foster Dulles at his press conference in Washington yesterday, when dealing with the question of the outlook for a summit conference, to the effect that there is now not the same emotional fervour in Europe for a summit meeting, can the minister give to the house any information on this later development?


Hon. Sidney E. Smith (Secretary of State for External Affairs):: I have read the text of the press conference which Mr. Dulles

held the day before yesterday and to which the hon. member refers. In the text of that conference I can find nothing that would indicate that Mr. Dulles had said anything that was not consonant with the discussions we had in Copenhagen at the meeting of the foreign ministers of NATO. Indeed, as I endeavoured to tell the house on Monday of this week in my participation in the debate on the address in reply to the speech from the throne, I experienced at Copenhagen a remarkable degree of co-operation. I can assure the house that the NATO council, the council in permanent session, has been kept fully informed with respect to the discussions that have been held and are still going on between Mr. Gromyko and the three ambassadors of the United Kingdom, the United States and France.


REQUEST FOR RETURN OF CERTAIN
[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. Paul Marlin (Essex East):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask the Secretary of State for External Affairs if he can say whether or not our charge d'affaires in Poland has been handed an aide-memoire by the government of Poland regarding property which that government believes to belong to it? Has a reply been made to the Polish government with regard to its demand for the return of certain properties?


Sidney Earle Smith: Mr. Speaker, we
received only this morning a communication from our charge d'affaires in Warsaw concerning this matter. I have not had the opportunity to examine it closely myself, but I can assure the house that careful consideration will be given to whatever is contained in the aide-memoire.


UNITED STATES
[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. D. M. Fisher (Port Arthur):: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a question to the Minister of Trade and Commerce. What qualitative and quantitative analyses are in hand by the minister's department to determine the truth of the statements made by the United States Secretary of Agriculture to the effect that the United States foreign disposal program of surplus farm goods has created and will create markets for Canada?


Hon. Gordon Churchill (Minister of Trade and Commerce):: Mr. Speaker, this question is just a little difficult to answer in a few
Inquiries of the Ministry sentences. I did notice in the paper a statement credited to the United States Secretary of Agriculture to the effect that their surplus disposal program was creating markets for Canada.
To the extent that the surplus disposal program of wheat, for example, develops a desire to consume wheat in a country which is not normally a wheat-consuming country, that would in the long run enlarge the markets for wheat exporters. I cannot answer the question fully unless I have your permission, Mr. Speaker, to go on at some length, and of course the hon. member for Ottawa West (Mr. Mcllraith) might object if I took more than one minute to answer a question.


Mr. Speaker:: I think the minister is correct in stating that this is not a question which could be answered briefly. It seems to ask really for an opinion. As I understand the purpose of questions it is to elicit information rather than to ask for opinions.


MISSION TO UNITED KINGDOM
[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. W. H. McMillan (Welland):: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if I could direct a question to the Minister of Trade and Commerce, of which I have sent him notice.
On January 29 I asked the minister what was the cost of the recent buying mission to the United Kingdom and what further costs were anticipated. The minister replied at that time that all the accounts had not been received and that the printing of a report was then in the course of preparation, which would be included in the further costs.
I wonder if the minister can answer the question at this time, and if he can say whether a report will be tabled?


Gordon Minto Churchill: Mr. Speaker, I suggest that this is the type of question which requires statistical information and which normally would be placed on the order paper. The approximate cost-and the information will be readily supplied if the hon. member will put his question on the order paper-is in the neighbourhood of $60,000.


URANIUM-ASSURANCE AS TO PEACEFUL USES BY WEST GERMANY
[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Arnold Peters (Timiskaming):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct a question to the Secretary of State for External Affairs. In view of statements which appear in the local newspapers this morning could the minister inform the house what definite assurance

Inquiries of the Ministry has been given that the uranium which Canada is selling to West Germany will be used only for peaceful purposes?


Sidney Earle Smith: Mr. Speaker, I am sorry, but I was otherwise occupied with my desk-mate here. Could the question be repeated?


William Arnold Peters: Mr. Speaker, probably the minister's inability to hear was contributed to by the distance which separates our seats. I wish to ask the minister if he could inform the house what definite assurance has been given that the uranium Canada is selling to West Germany will be used only for peaceful purposes.


Sidney Earle Smith: Mr. Speaker, when I presented to the house at the last session the agreement in that regard I made it very clear that provision had been made, through the machinery that has been established for inspection and control of that material in Germany, to the end that it will not be used for purposes other than those designated in the communication and agreement.


COMMONWEALTH CONFERENCE
[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Hazen Argue (Assiniboia):: I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Trade and Commerce arising out of a statement in this morning's press attributed to the Earl of Home, the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations of the United Kingdom, in which he outlined three purposes which the coming commonwealth economic conference will have. I wonder if the minister would care to comment on these three purposes or themes; and could he also inform the house whether Canada has specific proposals to place before the conference, and whether he believes these will increase our exports to the United Kingdom and commonwealth trade generally.


Gordon Minto Churchill: Mr. Speaker, this again is a subject for rather lengthy discussion. I have seen the press report of Lord Home's speech, but I have no copy of it. Perhaps in answer to the hon. member I might say that the principal matters which the commonwealth countries propose to take up at the conference which is being held in September were set out in the communique issued at the conclusion of the conference of commonwealth finance ministers last fall.
[Mr. Peters.)

They are as follows:
(a)	the significance for commonwealth countries of changes taking place in world trade;
(b)	measures to expand trade between commonwealth countries;
(c)	progress toward the common objective of freer trade and payments;
(d)	the progress and direction of economic expansion in the less developed countries of the commonwealth and the sources of capital and technical assistance that may aid in their further development;
(e)	economic and trade problems in regard to agriculture and other primary productions;
(f)	the prospects and implications, especially for commonwealth countries, of the European economic community and the proposed free trade area; and
(g)	arrangements for continuing commonwealth consultations on economic matters.


NOVA SCOTIA
[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. H. J. Robichaud (Gloucester):: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a question to the Prime Minister. In view of the Prime Minister's reply to my question on May 16 with regard to the surplus of coal in Nova Scotia, can the right hon. gentleman now inform the house whether any decision has been reached by the dominion coal board regarding the disposal of the surplus of coal, which T understand now amounts to well over one million tons in Nova Scotia alone?


Right Hon. J. G. Diefenbaker (Prime Minister):: I have nothing to add to the reply I gave on the date in question, except to say that the matter is receiving the attention of the coal board and also of the government.



SHIPPING


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Herbert Wilfred Herridge: Mr. Speaker, I wish to address a question to the Minister of Justice. My question is based on the fears of certain launch owners in my constituency; it is a question with national significance but provincial application.
In view of the fact that the government of British Columbia is giving consideration to the assessment of yacht club wharves and boat houses for taxation or exemption, and in view of the fact that such publicly-owned marine facilities might properly be considered

as aids to navigation, would the minister inform the house whether under these circumstances such aids to navigation come within the jurisdiction of the federal government?


Hon. E. D. Fulton (Minister of Justice):: am quite sure the hon. gentleman would not expect a reply to his question today. I will refer it to the department, and be glad to give him an answer at a later date.



HARBOURS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. J. R. Tucker (Trinity-Conception):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask the Minister of Public Works when the work on the development at St. John's harbour, Newfoundland, announced by the Prime Minister at the beginning of the election campaign, is going to start.


Hon. Howard C. Green (Minister of Public Works):: We are going right ahead with the preliminary planning for that undertaking. The hon. member need not worry; we shall do it much faster than the former administration.



UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
John Whitney Pickersgill: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if I could ask the Minister of Labour if he could give the house the total number of persons receiving unemployment insurance benefits, either seasonal or regular, at the nearest available date to the middle of April?


Michael Starr: Mr. Speaker, I will be glad to give that information to the hon. member.


Michael Starr: Mr. Speaker, in answer to the question asked earlier by the hon. member for Bonavista-Twillingate, the latest figure we have is for May 8, and at that date the total for all Canada was 715,056.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Mr. Speaker, I think the minister perhaps misunderstood my question. My question was as to the number of persons receiving unemployment insurance benefits as of the date nearest the middle of April, not for the latest date. It also had to do with the numbers receiving benefits, not the numbers registered in the offices.
22, 1958	341
Inquiries of the Ministry HEALTH INSURANCE



STATEMENT AS TO EFFECT OF HOSPITAL PLAN ON TREATMENT OF VETERANS

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. A. J. Brooks (Minister of Veterans Affairs):: Mr. Speaker, on May 20 the hon. member for York-Sunbury asked me the following question:
Can the minister inform this house of the effect the forthcoming provincial hospital insurance plans may have on the hospitalization and treatment of veterans and upon the operation of hospitals administered by his department?
I took the question as notice and now wish to make the following reply. My department has been greatly interested in the effect which the development of provincial hospital insurance plans might have upon the hospitalization and treatment of veterans and upon the operation of departmental hospitals. Officials of my department have been working closely with officials of the Department of National Health and Welfare and the provinces in this connection.
It is my intention that the operation of provincial hospital insurance plans will in no way adversely affect the rights and privileges of treatment which any veteran now enjoys at the hands of the department. Departmental hospitals located in those provinces participating in the federal-provincial arrangements for hospital insurance will be recognized by the province for the provision of insured services to veterans. This means that many of the services now provided, to veteran patients at the expense of the department or of the veteran himself will in future be provided in departmental hospitals at the expense of the hospital insurance plan. It does not mean that the services of the hospital will be extended beyond the present limits to citizens of the province who are non-veterans, or that the services provided to veteran patients will be in any way diminished.
It is a feature of all provincial hospital insurance plans that every resident of the province will be entitled to necessary hospitalization under the plan. Even so, the hospitalization and treatment of pensionable war-connected disabilities will remain the responsibility of the department alone. Such treatment will continue to be provided in departmental hospitals or elsewhere at the expense of the department and will not be charged against the provincial plan.
The veteran who is in receipt of war veterans' allowance and who is a resident of a participating province is entitled to hospitalization under the insurance plan on the same basis as other residents of the province. However, long usage and custom have firmly

Inquiries of the Ministry established the concept that the department has a responsibility under certain conditions for the hospitalization and treatment of this class of veteran. It is not the intention of the department to deny this responsibility. Therefore arrangements have been made by the department to pay, on behalf of the war veterans allowance recipient, any premium necessary to have him insured under the plan. Once the veteran war veterans allowance recipient is thus protected by the insurance plan, hospitalization in departmental hospitals or elsewhere will be at the expense of the plan. Co-insurance charges, where these are in effect, and medical and surgical costs will be at the expense of the department.
All other veterans who are residents of a province having a provincial hospital insurance plan will be covered by the plan as residents of the province. They will have the privilege of admission to departmental hospitals located in their province on a beds available basis, and the cost of this hospitalization will be recovered from the plan. The demand for other general hospital beds in the province will be lessened by the number of veterans who are thus admitted to departmental hospitals.
The existing regulations governing the hospitalization and treatment of veterans will be retained in their present form for the benefit of those veterans who are residents of nonparticipating provinces and for those veterans who, for one reason or another, are not covered by a provincial plan. Suitable provisions will be made to deal with those veterans whose hospitalization will henceforth be a charge against the provincial plan.


Paul Joseph James Martin: I should like to ask a supplementary question. I am sure the minister will agree that this is not a new policy but is the continuation of a policy that was formulated when the hospital insurance act came into being in 1957.


Alfred Johnson Brooks: That is not a question, and I do not altogether agree, either.


Paul Joseph James Martin: May I ask the
minister in what particular my statement of fact is incorrect.


Donald Methuen Fleming: In the usual respects.


Alfred Johnson Brooks: I am sure the hon. member himself knows in what particular.


Herbert Wilfred Herridge: should like to ask the minister a question. In view of the fact that the great majority of veterans prefer to go to the departmental veterans hospitals, and in view of the fact

that the new arrangements will mean a lessening of cost to the department for hospital care of veterans, would the minister consider widening the regulations to allow entrance to departmental veterans hospitals of the many veterans at present denied admission?


Alfred Johnson Brooks: Mr. Speaker, that would involve a change of policy, and is a matter that may be taken up later.



SPEECH FROM THE THRONE


[Stage Direction]
The house resumed, from Wednesday, May 21, consideration of the motion of Mr. Robert Lafreniere for an address to His Excellency the Governor General in reply to his speech at the opening of the session, and the amendment thereto of Mr. Pearson, and the amendment to the amendment of Mr. Argue.
(Translation):
Mr. Noel Dorion (Bellechasse):: Mr. Speaker, yesterday afternoon, after pointing out that the constituency of Bellechasse partakes structurally of the three physiographic regions which characterize the area in which it is comprised, I gave a brief description of the first of these regions, referred to as the St. Lawrence plain, calling the attention of the Ministers of Public Works and of Transport to the urgency of certain undertakings.
Beyond this St. Lawrence plain, and again in a southerly direction, we find the central plateau whose mean altitude, over a distance of 20 miles is between 1,000 and 2,000 feet, the highest point in the area being the St. Magloire bonnet, which has an altitude of 2,700 feet. The surface of that second area is not as flat as the first and gives the general impression of being a rolling plateau. The soil is rocky, difficult to work, and its productivity is relatively low.
Finally, in the extreme southern area, beyond the Buckland and St. Philemon crests, the ground flattens once more to form a large plain. This is called the St. Jean ramp, after the river towards which it slopes. The soil there is better, not as rocky as on the central plateau, and more suited to large scale farming.
In any event, in these latter two regions, the farmer is not always able to live by farming alone. In the winter time a number of them must work in the bush and cut wood for sale to companies. Others operate woodlots on their own land, as on nearly half

the other farms in the province. According to recent statistics prepared by the Catholic Farmers' Union, out of 134,336 farms in the province of Quebec, there are 63,546 whose occupants have to supplement their agricultural revenue with outside work, to a varying degree. To a large extent this supplementary income is provided by the operation of woodlots on the farms themselves.
The pulp and paper industry is one of the foremost resources of the province of Quebec. Indeed, statistics show that, for the years 1948 to 1951, the average consumption of pulpwood was 5,206,000 cords annually. Now then, though the greater part of it comes from land owned by the companies or from the working of crown lands, none the less an average of 700,000 cords annually during the same period, came from farm woodlots, representing 13 per cent of the whole supply. This gives us an idea of the importance to the farmer of the province of Quebec of the pulp and paper industry.
Unfortunately, it must be said that the treatment the farmer receives from the companies which buy his wood is by no means always in accordance with the standards of equity and justice. On the basis of rather detailed studies, the Catholic Farmer's Union maintains that unless he receives at least $20 a cord for pulpwood, the farmer cannot cover his costs taking into account his labour and a small interest on the capital represented by his farm. In 1955, prices paid the settlers and farmers varied between $10 and $17 a cord. Even this year the price being lower than production costs, selling is slow because of the considerable supplies which the companies took care to pile up. Unfortunately, there are at present thousands of cords of pulpwood from farm woodlots along the roads of the constituency of Bellechasse.
The situation is all the more serious because, when they buy, paper companies wait for the right time, for instance in late spring, when the farmer has no choice but to sell, so as to have a little cash to pay his taxes and buy fertilizer or seed. So, while timber cut on crown lands costs the companies upwards of $30 a cord by the time it reaches their mills, they manage to reduce to a third of that sum the price they pay to the farmer.
The report just issued by the Restrictive Trade Practices Commission constitutes an appalling indictment. It shows that certain companies deliberately and systematically
The Address-Mr. Dorion resorted to illegal and objectionable practices in purchasing pulpwood from settlers and farmers, and did so in accordance with a concerted plan, in a clearly unfair and inhuman fashion.
Such procedures should not be tolerated any longer. If I remember well, the hon. Minister of Justice (Mr. Fulton) has, in any case, informed the public that this report was under consideration and that he had the firm intention of taking action if the facts established did come under the provisions of the Combines Investigation Act. I commend him warmly on it, and I may add that repressive measures would be insufficient to correct the situation.
Like some other provinces, two years ago the government of Quebec passed an act called the agricultural produce act. It is, in a way, a transposition of the industrial relations act on the agricultural level. According to this law the producers of each area may form associations, enter into agreement with the buyers of their products and establish yearly terms for their marketing. Dairy farmers, maple and pulpwood producers are now developing this system. The fact remains that sales depend on the market demand and that prices may vary from one area to the other, or even from province to province. I am asking the hon. Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Harkness) if it would not be possible to submit this issue to the federal price stabilization board. By combining the advantages of the provincial and federal acts, we may succeed in helping in a large way that significant group of rural people who have woodlots on their farms. At the same time, we would stress the basic fact, which has but too often been ignored by our opponents, that understanding and harmony are best promoted and the greatest progress is made in the interest of national unity when the federal government and the provinces have a mutual regard for their respective laws and powers.
Once engaged in this direction, the federal government could also encourage our farmers to protect their woodlots and to practice forestry. We have in Quebec technicians trained in our forestry school upon whom the government could draw in order to help create experimental farms for the main purpose of preserving and developing our forests. The southern part of the constituency of Bellechasse would welcome such an undertaking. Our young people would be more inclined to resist the attraction of the cities and would find happiness and prosperity on the farms.

The Address-Mr. Dorion The speech from the throne expresses the government's intention to establish a small business agency. Such an initiative is the more welcome since it can still be of great advantage to our rural population. In the past, handicrafts, in a great variety of forms, were flourishing in the rural areas. They have been almost wholly eliminated by mechanical progress, concentration of capital, and the establishment of joint-stock companies in the larger centres. Nevertheless, there is still room, particularly in our rural areas, for the establishment and development of small businesses. In Bellechasse, we have a few small concerns using hardwood for the manufacture of furniture and kitchen utensils.
The relations between employer and employees are such as to guarantee social peace. There, people are still devoted to craftsmanship, so admirably sung by Peguy, and to that art of workmanship which is as an extension and most concrete expression of human personality.
Those small businesses are very beneficial to our rural population. Not only do they promote the local development of our raw materials, offer markets for some farm products, give employment to many workers and allow the use of local savings for the economic development of the area, but they help maintain a middle class which might become a great bulwark against subversive ideas. They keep in our small communities those who, in time of prosperity, would be dazzled by the great cities and those who, in time of depression, would increase the number of people looking for employment. Thus, by favouring the maintenance of an economic balance and the decentralization of industry and trade, they contribute to the accomplishment of a social work indispensable in a democratic country.
I humbly suggest to the government to give to that proposed board the most extended powers so that it may carry its investigations in our rural centres, find out what could be profitably produced there and bring conclusions whose implementation could promote the establishment of new businesses and the development of existing ones. Why not consider also the establishment of rural industrial credit which could supplement agricultural credit? As early as 1929 Belgium instituted a credit system of this type which contributed very efficiently to reducing the incidence of unemployment and maintaining the remarkable economic equilibrium which that country enjoys.


Mr. Speaker, the Quebec farmer is an element of resistance and of permanency on which the nation can count. A celebrated French economist, Andre Siegfried, once wrote:
By origin and by a tradition to which he remains faithful, he is a true countryman, devoted to the soil, retaining a sense of nature, whether it be a matter of cultivating the soil or of breaking new land.
It is in his person that we may find the old Canadian type preserved from outside contamination. He is rooted to the soil, through love of it as much as necessity. He wants to live on the land and from the land, to bring up his family there and perpetuate his name. He is an element of stability and order, he perpetuates tradition, a culture, a philosophy of life which constitutes an unsurmountable obstacle to Americanization in all its forms.
When in 1867 those who drafted our constitution agreed to form a confederation rather than a legislative union, they thought that in order to ensure the vigour and strength of the Canadian nation, it was necessary that the human type peculiar to our land should remain and perpetuate itself. He needed a legal framework in which he could realize all his potentialities. They thought further that the province he lived in should be endowed with institutions whereby he was to feel perfectly at home. That is why the 1867 constitution has such deep meaning for him that in the guarantees which it offers he finds the very condition of his existence, and that is why he is attached to it by all the fibres of his soul. This is for the Canadian nation a source of inexhaustible wealth. It is in this way that our country has peculiarities and general characteristics which have made of it something unique and incomparable. It has contributed to making it finer and greater.
In one of the brilliant talks which he gave at Oxford around 1926, Sir Robert Borden spoke out vigorously on this matter:
(Text):
-it was futile to expect in Canada the absorption of a virile people deeply attached to their language, their religion, and their traditions. Nor was it in the least desirable that such a fusion should take place. The qualities of the French and the English temperaments are in many respects complementary. Each is capable of distinctive service to the state and each has given it. Not in fusion but through co-operation the highest service of the two races can best be given to Canada.
(Translation):
Faithful to this principle, the present Prime Minister expressed the same thoughts in the

course of the last election campaign before an audience in the metropolis of Canada, when he said forcefully:
I know that one of the great forces of our country is that it can draw from the two greatest cultures of the modern world: the French culture and the English culture, to create a true Canadian spirit.
And he added those particularly significant words:
When I look at the great events of our history, I see no majority nor minorities in Canada but only equal partners engaged in the same undertaking, that of working for the welfare and progress of the country as a whole.
This philosophy, which is at the very source of the alliance which we Canadians of French culture and Canadians of English culture concluded in 1867, explains the attitude of the province of Quebec in the last elections.
After listening for too long to the voice of discord from a few of the very ones who then came here and professed to be champions of national unity, the province heard a voice which spoke words akin to its own ideas, its own feelings and its own aspirations. That voice preached precisely the kind of national unity which is dear to our hearts, the kind of national unity we must cultivate, the only one that can assure our country peace, stability and greatness.
It was the spirit of Sir John A. Macdonald and Sir Georges-Etienne Cartier which blew again in the sails of the Conservative party, this spirit which fits in so well with the virtues of faithfulness, moderation and common sense characteristic of the people of Quebec and which, undoubtedly, will lead us to the realization of the ardent wish that, on the evening of election day, the Prime Minister expressed in French in the following words:
Together, French-speaking Canadians and Englishspeaking Canadians, we will write a new chapter of the history of Canada.
In the pursuit of this task to which the leader of the government called us, we Canadians of French culture believe, like the Prime Minister, that we have an essential part to play. Rooted in the soil for the past three and a half centuries, heirs to a culture which neither conquest, nor internal struggles, nor outside threats were able to uproot, descended by blood and spirit from one of the greatest civilizing nations of the world, we could not remain deaf to this call and stand aloof from the government of a country where we represent more than a third of the people.
We, Conservatives from the province of Quebec, have come here, therefore, in all
The Address-Mr. Roberge confidence and loyalty. In the very words of the right hon. Prime Minister, we want to be with our compatriots of English culture and language partners in the management of the country, in such a way that the rights and liberties of our two ethnic groups be respected and safeguarded, that our political institutions be pervaded with the spirit of the one and of the other and thus achieve at last this national unity for which all Canadians of good will have been yearning for so long.


Mr. Gabriel Roberge (Megantic):: Mr. Speaker, it is with a mixed feeling of apprehension and satisfaction that a new member of parliament rises to take part in his first debate: apprehension because he does not know exactly what to expect and because he is not well acquainted with the atmosphere of the house; satisfaction because as you know, it is the achievement of a very legitimate ambition of whoever represents here his fellow-citizens.
I would ask you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, to convey to Mr. Speaker my most sincere congratulations on his election to the position he now occupies. I was not here last session, but I was able to follow the debates in the official report. I was able to appreciate the fairness and honesty of the decisions that Mr. Speaker made with such an adequate sense of humour. If such qualities were required during last session, I am convinced that they are even more needed in the present parliament to preserve the rights and privileges of the members of the opposition who sit to the immediate left of the Speaker.
I would be remiss if I did not mention, Mr. Deputy Speaker, your appointment to that post, as well as that of the hon. member for Spadina (Mr. Rea) to the post of deputy chairman of the committees. I knew you personally many years ago when we both were students of the revered seminary of Quebec where you earned your first laurels. We met again later when you were serving in the Canadian army and later again when you were seriously wounded. The eagerness with which you fought for liberty on the battlefield is a sure guarantee of the eagerness with which you will discharge your parliamentary duties.
The hon. member for Quebec-Montmorency (Mr. Lafreniere) must be commended for the speech he delivered in proposing the address in reply to the speech from the throne. You
346	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. Roherge will, no doubt, appreciate, Mr. Speaker, that if a Liberal may admire the rhetoric of the proposer, this does not mean that he agrees with his reasoning and some of the political principles he stated.
I also wish to congratulate another young member, the hon. member for Yukon (Mr. Nielsen). I realize that like his leader, the Prime Minister, he had visions, but I am afraid that many a Canadian now settled farther south, and who is furthermore unemployed, will not be willing to follow the paths leading north.
Before making the few remarks I have in mind, may I, Mr. Speaker, put on the record a word of thanks and gratitude to the electors of my riding which I have the great honour of representing here. I want of course to thank particularly all those who, directly or indirectly, have assured my election to the House of Commons. I wish to add, however, that my ambition is to represent here not only the Liberals, but all the electors of the Megantic constituency without any distinction between parties or political creed. I will be constantly at their disposal, and I pledge them again my fullest devotion.
During the election campaign, Mr. Speaker, and since the beginning of this session, we have heard much about unemployment and about recession. Of course, statisticians and still less political speakers do not agree as to the number of unemployed in Canada. The fact is however that through last winter, their number was, and still is, much greater than at the same time in years past. It seems to me that their number is not decreasing as much as we would like.
Many steps have been advocated to bring about a sizeable reduction of the number of unemployed. Without ignoring the public works program announced by the right hon. Prime Minister, I believe that the idea of a tax reduction advocated by the hon. Leader of the Opposition, and particularly its implementation, would be much more likely to reach that goal. As a matter of fact, if we have a look at the list of those public works, we can see readily, as has been pointed out by many previous speakers, that they are regular and normal public works provided for in the yearly estimates. The Conservatives are certainly not the ones who started the tremendous works of the St. Lawrence seaway and much less the Trans-Canada pipe line, to name just those two. The carrying on of those projects and the start of others


cannot, I feel, help solve the problems completely, although the right hon. Prime Minister stated on several occasions, as was so pointedly mentioned by the hon. member for Bonavista-Twillingate (Mr. Pickersgill), that nobody would suffer from unemployment as long as he would head the Canadian government.
As we mentioned during the last election campaign, Canadians as a whole spend whatever is contained in their pay envelope. It is therefore imperative to increase the purchasing power of the Canadian taxpayers, and we believe that a huge cut in taxes would answer that purpose. If people buy more consumer goods, an increased production of such goods would necessarily follow, and as a consequence, there would be more jobs and a greater stability in employment.
The riding of Megantic, which I represent, Mr. Speaker, is partly urban and partly rural. As in all other parts of Canada, there is unemployment there, particularly, as you will understand, in the urban areas. I have not been able to get the accurate figures from the unemployment insurance officers, because part of the riding is served by the Victoriaville office, which is located in the riding of my hon. friend, the representative of Drummond-ville (Mr. Boulanger). Several parishes are under the jurisdiction of that office, so that it is not possible accurately to determine the extent of unemployment in my own riding. But I have before me the figures published on May 13, 1958 by the office in Thetford Mines, which serves a population of approximately 45,000. There are exactly 2,204 men and women looking for jobs, which is a very large number for this season. What public works does the government favour to check the recession and create employment for at least part of these twenty-two hundred jobless people? Thanks to the former government, amounts have been earmarked for the extension and improvement of the Thetford Mines post office. The work is now mostly finished and I must congratulate the government for implementing a project put foward by the former Liberal government.
I am aware also that the Liberal government of the Right Hon. Louis St. Laurent had appropriated some money for the building of a post office in Plessisville. The land was bought and tenders were called. According to some information which, I believe, is in the record of the debates of the last session, the contract had been granted

but later withdrawn, the latter event having occurred in the course of October. The session of last fall went by, the election was held and during that whole period nothing was done, as far as I know, toward the construction of that building during the winter unemployment period. It is only recently that new tenders were called. Judging by recent events, work will not start until next fall and yet this is the very time where unemployment is most serious, where construction workers find themselves without a job in that part of the constituency.
But what are the other public works which the government has in mind for the constituency of Megantic? I have heard nothing or seen nothing which can give me an inkling of its intentions in this regard.
You w'ill allow me, Mr. Speaker, to put forward a few suggestions for the appropriate department's consideration. In co-operation with the municipalities and in full and frank co-operation with the provincial government, the present federal government should establish a municipal lending fund which would help municipalities carry out important and useful public works.
I know many municipalities in my riding which would welcome that government assistance. I suppose that, now that political relations are closer between the federal government and the provincial government, co-operation will be easier than it has been.
To give a concrete example, the government could study the possibility of providing the constituency of Megantic either with an airport or with an helicopter station. As a matter of fact, Megantic stands about midway between Quebec and Sherbrooke, about 150 miles from Montreal. Major public works would help, at least partially, to alleviate unemployment and would contribute to the development of means of transportation in that area.
We have already dealt during this session with unemployment insurance. I do not wish to criticize the stand taken by the government in connection with some supplementary benefits, but I find in the speech delivered by His Excellency on May 12 last that the government intends to bring other amendments to the Unemployment Insurance Act. I would like to offer a few suggestions one of which in particular has been submitted to me by some electors of my riding.
As a general rule, ordinary or seasonal benefits are now paid to workers who are
The Address-Mr. Roberge on the labour market looking for work. Such benefits have been extended by the former Liberal government to those who, while they were without work, fell ill. It seems to me that we should consider extending benefits to those who lose their job on account of illness; then their families would not have them to worry about the difficulties they have to go through in such circumstances.
I also believe that unemployment insurance benefits should be extended to another group of people. According to the existing legislation of most of the provinces, the widow and children cf a workman killed on the job are entitled to a pension but when this workman dies from illness or from any other kind of accident, to my knowledge no legislation provides for a pension to his surviving dependants. In many cases, the workman has paid unemployment insurance contributions for several years and never had to draw any kind of benefits. A system of unemployment insurance could be instituted whereby the widow of a deceased workman could draw benefits on behalf of her deceased husband for a certain time, at least until she has adjusted herself to her new conditions. In my opinion, the government should take this problem under serious consideration, as it could affect a certain proportion of the people, and provide a solution in the sense I have just indicated.
Without criticizing the legislation concerning the extension of unemployment insurance seasonal benefits, I must point out that those who stopped receiving benefits before May 17, 1958, do not draw any more money under the new legislation. I suggest that the government remedy the situation when the other changes announced in the speech from the throne of His Excellency are submitted to the house.
(Text):
Having now dealt with the unemployment situation in Canada, Mr. Speaker, and the situation in that respect in my own constituency, I would like to say a few words about those who are not yet ready for employment. I refer to the children of our country.
If I now address you, sir, in the other official language used in this country, it is probably due to the fact that the simultaneous translation system has not yet been introduced in this house-as far as I can see, anyway. During the recent election campaign I heard over television the Solicitor

The Address-Mr. Roberge General declare that his government had caused an act to be passed in this regard. I would very much like to know the reference to that act, if the hon. member for Three Rivers (Mr. Balcer) would care to give it.
Coming back to the children of this country, I would like to point out that the government has done nothing since it took office with regard to the question of family allowances. If the cost of living has risen for the elderly people, the crippled and the blind, I cannot see how it did not also rise for the children of the country, and more particularly for those responsible for them.
(Translation):
Mr. Speaker, I suggest that the government should improve family allowances in favour of our children, not only those who are very young, but those who are old enough to attend school. Since the adoption of this family allowances system by former Liberal governments, many improvements and additions have been made to it, without in any way upsetting the budget. It is to be noted, however, that this field of social legislation seems to be the only one about which the government did not think at all. I believe it is imperative that the government should think about it. In what proportion should these family allowances be increased? That is up to the government to decide.
I should like to draw particular attention, however, to one category of young people in this country who do not benefit at present from family allowances. I am referring to those children of both sexes who continue to attend school after age sixteen, and who do so until they are eighteen. These young people were, as was advocated by the Liberal party, to receive family allowances in the same way as those who now receive them, and at least on the same scale.
Several of these young people, when they reach eighteen or pass their B.A. want to continue their studies at the university level. I know I am broaching a delicate issue, particularly with regard to the province of Quebec which keeps a jealous watch of its prerogatives in the matter of education. The problem may now seem easier to solve and the co-operation between the central government and the Quebec government might be more efficient in view of the active proof of friendship we recently witnessed.
The right to education belongs first of all to our children and should not depend on the


financial means of their parents but on the young people's talent and future opportunities. With regard to this right there is, of course a corresponding obligation on behalf of parents to provide this education. The state however should play a supplementary part, which belongs in the first place to the provinces.
However, in 1958, when science is fast developing, when artificial moons circle around the earth, when long range missiles can be launched farther and farther, education is becoming more and more an intercontinental problem, and at least an interprovincial problem. I do not see any reason why the central power should not contribute its share in this field, without infringing upon the rights of parents and of the provinces.
If we must give assistance to the children who want to go to university, it is also imperative to assist our universities themselves, which at the present time all complain of lack of funds.
In this respect, the Liberal government of the Right Hon. Louis St. Laurent had provided a sizeable financial help to universities; but, unfortunately, the universities of my province have been able to benefit from those grants only once.
The Prime Minister said in Saskatchewan, not so long ago, that his government would assist the universities of that province. I figure that his statement was not a restricted one, and that, as a consequence, all Canadian provinces can take for granted that their universities will receive their share. I hope that the Quebec universities will be able at last to receive what they are entitled to, and I urge the Prime Minister, as well as his colleagues from the province of Quebec, to see that the governmental authorities of my province co-operate at last towards the solution of this national problem, in the future, and thereby contribute to the welfare of our universities.
As far as the children are concerned, the federal government could, while respecting the autonomy of the provinces as well as the rights of the parents in the field of education, as I have already said, give substantial assistance to those who have talent, as well as the will to succeed and to prepare adequately for the future. This government help could well be implemented through the agency of the national conference of Canadian universities. The government would then have no control whatever over anything save over the amounts which it could put at the disposal of that conference.

Here, Mr. Speaker, are the Liberal party suggestions with regard to these student scholarships and loans.
1.	Establish a large scale national scholarship program for university students. These scholarships would be granted through a public competition held in the two official languages of this country, under the control of the national conference of Canadian universities.
2.	To supplement this scholarship program, a national fund would be set up so as to allow students to obtain loans in order to pursue their university studies.
This government should study the advisability of carrying out this program, thus solving at least in part a very important problem.
Before concluding, I wish to express the sense of deep satisfaction I felt seeing my leader carry an electoral campaign with such vigour under very trying circumstances and not more than fifteen days after his election as our party leader.
I noted with great pleasure that during this campaign he showed special concern for our university students, meeting them in their universities to discuss their problems with them. I offer him my special congratulations for this solicitude toward those who are preparing Canada's future while preparing their own.
(Text):


Mr. J. S. Speakman (Welaskiwin):: Mr. Speaker, I consider it a real privilege to add my congratulations to yourself and to your deputy, and also to congratulate the mover (Mr. Lafreniere) and seconder (Mr. Nielsen) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne. I should like heartily to endorse the remarks made by the hon. member for Yukon, having spent some considerable number of years in the Yukon myself.
The constituency of Wetaskiwin, which was established in 1905, for 37 years sent representatives to Ottawa who sat on the wrong side of the house. This is the first time in its 53-year history that this constituency has sent a Progressive Conservative member to parliament. The constituency which I have the honour to represent is essentially agricultural, although in the past 10 years we have risen to the position of producing over 25 per cent of Alberta's oil. Our principal agricultural products are, however, diversified, so much so that the disposal of surplus grain presents no problem in this constituency.
To turn to oil, the present import restriction imposed by our neighbour to the south has, of course, created some unemployment.
The Address-Mr. Speakman Those engaged in our oil industry are for the most part young men proud of their ability to work. However, these young men feel a high degree of confidence that this government will do all that lies in its power to bring about an easing of these restrictions and thus provide for continuous employment.
At the present time the markets for our agricultural products are very good and prices are very high. Increased livestock production in my constituency has led to the ending of the problem of surplus grain, because we feed not only our grain but to a considerable extent grain produced in adjoining constituencies. Dairying is one of our major activities in these constituencies. Our Wetaskiwin branch of the northern Alberta dairy pool is a consistent winner of prizes for butter production. Our surplus dairy products go, in the main, to the central Alberta dairy pool plant at Red Deer, a condensory which is continually increasing its output. Production from this condensory fluctuates seasonally, and during the period of heavy production a surplus is built up at the plant. We feel that some support should be given to this product in order to keep production at a high level and enable the plant to compete in the export market with the larger producers.
I would like to read figures to show the importance of this industry to central Alberta. The quantity of evaporated milk we have for export would be equal to approximately 500,000 pounds of skim milk powder and 250,000 pounds of butter. This government has put price supports on both skim milk powder and butter. I would suggest to the government and principally to the Minister of Agriculture that he give consideration to placing a support on the price of evaporated milk, which would permit this plant to compete with the larger producers in the export market.
As in other agricultural constituencies our agricultural population is decreasing, and we welcome this government's suggested amendments to the Canadian Farm Loan Act. A large portion of my constituency is in the marginal and submarginal soil areas where an expansion of farm credit will do much to assist in the modernization and developing of the farms and thus keep our young men on the farms so they will not swell the ranks of the unemployed in the urban centres. We have in Canada today a well-trained staff immediately available to implement any amendments brought in to the Canadian Farm Loan Act, in the field staffs under the Veterans' Land Act. In my opinion no country has such a highly trained staff in agriculture so immediately available.
It is in my constituency that the Hobbema and Ma Me O Indian reserves lie. Doubtless

The Address-Mr. Badanai the word "Hobbema" will have a familiar ring to the hon. member for Bonavista-Twillingate, the former minister of citizenship and immigration. The acceleration of educational and other facilities to hasten the eventual integration of these people into full citizenship in Canada will be welcomed in this constituency and amongst these bands.
I must at this point mention the admiration I feel for the churches in the work they have done in educational and other matters amongst the Indian bands.
It is a matter of great pride to me to have come to this house as an elected representative of some of the people of Alberta. My constituency of Wetaskiwin adjoins the constituency of Red Deer from which my uncle was elected to this house in 1921. It is my sincere hope that I can give to the people of my constituency, the people of Alberta and the people of Canada the representation that was given by my late uncle, Alfred Speakman, to his people whom he served for 15 years between 1921 and 1935.


Mr. Hubert Badanai (Fort William):: Mr. Speaker, in my first contribution to the debates of this house I should like to exercise the degree of modesty becoming a new member, a modesty which will not overlook, however, certain facts concerning the constituency which I have the honour to represent. My words are not words of wisdom; they are simply the voice of a student rather than that of an expert. It may not be necessary, therefore, for me to take up the whole 40 minutes allotted to speakers on the speech from the throne. As a matter of fact, if I may express an humble opinion, these speeches could be limited to 20 minutes save and except by leave of the house or when circumstances warrant a longer period, such as when the Prime Minister speaks, or the Leader of the Opposition.
At the outset I wish to extend my personal congratulations to you, sir, for being selected for the most important position in the house, because we believe you represent the very embodiment of fair play so necessary in the conduct of this honourable parliament. I also wish to congratulate the mover (Mr. Lafre-niere) and seconder (Mr. Nielsen) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne for their excellent presentations, and especially do I wish to congratulate the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Pearson) for the masterly way in which he presented the viewpoint of Her Majesty's loyal opposition urging the government to adopt a policy designed to increase the level of international trade by introducing vigorous measures for the expansion of the exchange of goods and services with as many countries of the world as possible.

This is a sure way of helping, if not curing entirely, our present unemployment situation, which notwithstanding all the oratory we have heard to the contrary continues to loom as a serious problem. I have just received a telegram from the director of the national employment office at Fort William confirming the fact that there are still 2,445 unemployed people in that city. Had it not been for the work of the winter employment committee which conducted a successful "do it now" campaign throughout the winter months the figures of unemployed persons would be much higher. I wish to pay tribute to all of those who served on this committee.
Lest I should unwittingly convey a pessimistic outlook concerning the future of Canada I hasten to assure the house that there is no depression in my vision, but I do wish to say there is much room for improvement, and the government has the power and the opportunity to bring about measures which will be beneficial to Canadians everywhere. I believe this can be accomplished if the government will act on suggestions coming from this side of the house, for let it not be said that all the brains of the country are confined to the right side of Mr. Speaker.
During the past few days we have had the pleasure of listening to several fine addresses. They were, by and large, notable commentaries which reflected the thinking of many widely separated areas of Canada, and I in turn am very appreciative of the opportunity of bringing to the attention of the house some of the problems besetting my riding as well as our hopes for better days. In his speech on the address a few days ago the hon. member for York West (Mr. Hamilton) made the following statement, as found at page 49 of Hansard of May 13:
May I say that I hope the day of the personality cult in connection with the administration of our foreign affairs is over . . .
If there has ever been a personality cult in evidence in Canada, Mr. Speaker, I respectfully submit that the present Prime Minister would certainly be head and shoulders above any other candidate because of the admiration showered upon him by his supporters as though he were a Caesar. In fairness to the Prime Minister, I believe it is quite possible that he is a victim of his own popularity, which was exploited rather successfully by his party during the last election campaign.
(Translation):
As it appears to be in order for Englishspeaking members to say a few words in French, one of our two official languages, I undertook this agreeable task with the help of some friends.

I am very much impressed by the friendly attitude of all hon. members, to whatever party they belong.
I am beginning to realize that, if the teaching of French was mandatory at the various levels of our schools, it would be a wonderful thing for Canada. I venture to hope that this will come about in the not too distant future. (Text):
The speech from the throne foreshadowed a busy agenda for this session of parliament. It contained some excellent suggestions, with many of which I am in full accord, especially the one dealing with the establishment of a harbour commission for the lakehead cities of Port Arthur and Fort William and the preparing of that harbour to handle ocean going ships. I had hoped that the speech would at least contain a reference to the plight of the municipalities with regard to the difficulties they face in obtaining loans for municipal improvements at low rates of interest, especially in view of the submission made to the government on February 7 last by the executive of the Canadian federation of mayors and municipalities.
The borrowing capacity of municipalities is necessarily limited, and it is therefore imperative that if they are to continue to provide essential local services the federal government should establish a national loan fund-thus being of inestimable assistance- from which the municipalities would borrow at the federal bond rate of interest to finance projects approved by provincial municipal boards. These boards are the watchdogs of municipal expenditures, serving as a protective force against unwise spending on nonessential projects.
With respect to housing, the speech contained the promise of a vigorous program of house building. However, the legislation adopted in the house last week did not go far enough. My own view is that the government should subsidize interest rates on mortgage loans for houses costing less than $12,000. Anybody who is able to afford a new house costing over $12,000 should be able to meet the going market interest rate. Houses, including site costs, under $12,000 are today in the low cost category and a subsidy of say 2 per cent would bring the effective rate of interest to about 4 per cent.
One of the crying needs of the moment is houses for rent. In our municipality we have taken advantage of the former government's housing scheme introduced in 1950 or 1951, and I was pleased to see that the present government is carrying on with the same formula of 75 per cent federal investment and 25 per cent split between the province and
The Address-Mr. Badanai the municipality. The only trouble is that the scheme, while good, should provide for an increase in the federal government's share of the cost of acquiring and clearing substandard areas for low rental housing projects.
I sincerely hope that the Prime Minister will convene a federal-provincial-municipal conference some time during 1958. Such a conference could accomplish much to solve the problems involved in the growth and development of our urban communities. The municipalities cannot be ignored by the federal government. The complexities of our modern age demand a reassessment of the field of responsibilities of all levels of government.
The speech from the throne, Mr. Speaker, did not make any reference to government policy on immigration, and this is a rather important omission. In view of Canada's economic prospects for the future, as forecast by the royal commission, and even accepting the fact that Canadian women are doing their duty by maintaining the birth rate at a high level, there is substantial evidence to indicate the desirability of selective and steady immigration if Canada is to achieve its destiny as a truly great nation, to say nothing of the great vision of the development of the north so dramatically portrayed by the Prime Minister during the election campaign.
In this connection I wish to submit for the consideration of the government a proposal to establish a policy of bringing in emigrants from any land who will qualify as farmers and who will settle on the land, especially in undeveloped areas such as northwestern Ontario. Specifically I mean in the area adjacent to the city of Fort William, where we have a vast potential of good land for mixed farming. These prospective settlers would be required to sign an agreement to remain on the land for at least five years, and if they should fail to live up to the contract they would be subject to deportation. This policy would prevent crowding of the labour market and would thus create more jobs for industrial workers, who would be kept busy producing and manufacturing for these new consumers. In order to make such a scheme succeed the government should establish a loan fund from which these immigrants would be able to borrow for long terms and at a low rate of interest. This loan fund should also operate for the benefit of established farmers who wish to improve their holdings.
The speech from the throne indicated a desire to assist small business. With this I am in full agreement, and I would add that this classification should include tourist operators, who should be allowed to participate in any loan fund legislation the government

The Address-Mr. Badanai introduces to assist small business. At the present time it is almost impossible tor a tourist operator to keep his establishment up to the standard desired by the department of travel and publicity because he is unable to obtain a loan from banks, mortgage companies or government sources.
The tourist business is considered the third largest business in Canada, pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into the country annually, yet there is practically no form of assistance to it. One large operator in my city recently stated to me that under certain conditions a farmer could get a loan to instal a water system for his pigs, but as motel operator it was not possible for him to borrow sufficient funds to put respectable washroom facilities in his establishment for human beings.
Some of you may ask why I am so interested in the tourist business. The reason is that Fort William and the lakehead area is a real vacationland paradise. The splendor of the scenery is such that I have heard Scottish people say it was a constant reminder to them of Fort William, Scotland, and of the gorgeous bonnie Prince Charles country. This region was practically free of polio even before the advent of the Salk vaccine, and it is a wonderland for hay fever sufferers. There are hundreds of inland lakes, many yet unfished by white men because of a lack of access roads. This lack of roads presents the government with an opportunity to implement promises made during the election campaign.
From time to time, Mr. Speaker, Fort William received assurance that consideration would be given to the construction of a new armoury. The site was made available by the city and arrangements made for the use of the land occupied by the old building. The present armoury building has been condemned as a fire hazard by the fire chief, whose action was supported by the fire marshal of Ontario. Is it the intention of the Department of National Defence to construct a new armoury in Fort William, or must this old building, which was once an arena, continue to be a menace to the business section of the city?
We are somewhat disturbed over the amount of protection the lakehead area can expect in the event of a nuclear war. We cannot agree with the designated role of our cities as a "stand fast" area. We have co-operated in every way possible with civil defence authorities, but always with the reservation that Fort William and Port Arthur are not being called upon to protect the vast food supplies that are stored there. Sufficient thought is not being given to the

proper protection of a vital area. We are in agreement with most cities that civil defence preparedness is not realistic, that the federal government is encouraging apathy amongst the general public and, more important, is actually discouraging a large nucleus of important key personnel from doing a job. A tidal wave of paper is being turned out by the queen's printer which is filled with vague promises and contradictory and misleading suppositions.
Civil defence is the most important service we can provide for the protection of our people, if proper leadership and guidance are given. We are not alone in the civil defence field. Other countries have made far greater progress, why can't we? Surely it is not too costly to provide a proper warning system for every city in Canada. Pumper trucks should be provided by the government for every isolated area, and indeed for all mutual aid areas. Many municipalities cannot afford to provide this equipment, yet it is essential that protection be given. The government should regard civil defence as first-line defence, and be prepared for anything in this nuclear age.
The development of a deep sea harbour at the lakehead is vital to the growth and prosperity of the whole of Canada. For years Fort William and Port Arthur fulfilled their role as the breadbasket of the world. Millions of bushels of grain and millions of tons of iron ore from Steep Rock iron mines have been shipped through the lakehead harbours annually. As far back as 1655 Fort William played an important role in the economy of the nation. At that time the French explorers Radisson and Des Groseil-liers visited the area. In 1678 Daniel Greysolon Dulhut established a fur trading post, and now this whole region stands on the threshold of huge expansion.
It was no surprise to me to hear in the speech from the throne the recommendation that a harbour commission for the lakehead be established. The lakehead is important to the economy of the North American continent because it is a natural gateway to the west and in the centre of the whole continent. Its destiny has been portrayed as the Chicago of the north, and I am sure that destiny will be achieved. The amount of shipping through lakehead ports exceeded that of Toronto and Hamilton by over one million tons in 1957. I was glad to see, as my hon. friends must have seen, an editorial in the Globe and Mail of May 20 referring to the lakehead. It is headed "New Look for the Lakehead", and reads:
A weak spot in Canada's St. Lawrence seaway planning until recently has been the lakehead ports -Fort William and Port Arthur. It has been obvious from the beginning that if the project was

to fulfil its great economic promise to the nation as a whole, and to western Canada in particular, the lakehead ports would have to undergo great improvements-organizational and physical.
The lakehead harbours are 1,250 miles from Montreal by water or 2,250 miles from the open Atlantic ocean. The impact of the seaway will be stimulating to trade and industrial expansion, and will increase the lake-head importance as a distribution centre. However, in order to accelerate this development it is essential that the extension of the breakwater be undertaken by the Department of Public Works as soon as possible. Ocean ships are not unique at the lakehead. They have been calling at these ports for many years, but the deepening of the channels and the seaway will permit much larger ships to penetrate the heart of the Canadian hinterland. It will mean cheaper rates for export grain and will eliminate cargo transfer between the lakehead and Montreal. The estimates are that this may mean as much as 5 cents a bushel.
Natural gas, which is now available at the lakehead, will provide employment for thousands. Notwithstanding all that was said in the famous pipe-line debate of 1956, had it not been for the courage and determination of the former Liberal government to put the bill through this gas would still be under the ground or going to waste instead of enriching our economy. The availability of gas will make it possible for an iron ore processing plant to be established in the lakehead area. The processing of iron ore by gas is a revolutionary new method. Such an iron ore processing plant would make Canada independent of other countries, particularly the United States, and I understand that iron and steel products are largely responsible for our large trade deficit with that country.
I would suggest that the support of the federal government to establish an iron ore processing plant at Fort William would be beneficial to the whole country.
As a prophet, Mr. Speaker, I am not in the same class as some of my hon. friends on the other side of the house. However,
I venture to predict that within the next 25 years the lakehead area will witness dynamic development into one of Canada's greatest, a mighty pillar supporting the economic progress of our nation. The Prime Minister has not misplaced his confidence in recognizing the need of preparing the lake-head for the coming of the seaway.
With the exception of the newest members of the house, every one here knew my good friend and distinguished predecessor, Rev. Dan Mclvor, who for 23 years represented the riding of Fort William in this house.
The Address-Mr. Stewart I am sure this chamber has seen many members endowed with ability and honesty of purpose, but I doubt whether anyone has ever occupied one of these chairs who could even approach the humanity of the former hon. member for Fort William. I know you would want me to convey to him on your behalf greetings and best wishes for a long, healthy and enjoyable retirement with Mrs. Mclvor, a gracious and beloved lady well known in Ottawa. Finally, I wish to express my deepest gratitude to my constituents for the privilege and opportunity to serve them here.
I wish to conclude with a legend concerning an old Indian chief. This chief was growing very old and, feeling that the end was near, he wished to select someone among his braves to succeed him. So he called all the braves of his tribe together and from among them he selected four whom he thought worthy to carry on the traditions of his forebears. To them he said, "Tomorrow morning at sunrise you will climb yonder mountain: you will climb as high as you can, but you must return at sunset". The following morning the four braves started out and at sunset they returned. Of the first one the old chief asked, "How high did you climb?", and the brave answered, "I saw the spruce". Of the second the old chief asked, "How high did you climb?", and the brave replied, "I saw the pine". To the third the old chief put the same question and the answer came, "I saw the alpine brush". Finally of the fourth the old chief asked, "How high did you climb?" Proudly the brave answered, "I saw the sea".
After confederation 91 years ago, under the great Sir John A. Macdonald Canada climbed to the spruce. She climbed to the pine under the great Sir Wilfrid Laurier. Under Borden and Meighen she climbed to the alpine brush; and under the inspired leadership of Mackenzie King and Louis St. Laurent she climbed until she saw the sea.
God grant that during the next four or five years under the Prime Minister, John Diefenbaker, Canada may continue on the road to development, prosperity and security for all Canadians.


Mr. R. D. C. Stewart (Charlotte):: Mr. Speaker, it is my privilege, and I consider it a great honour, to be the first Conservative member to represent Charlotte in 23 years.
I approach my parliamentary duties with a great deal of humility, but as I made no promises during my campaign I have no sins

The Address-Mr. Stewart to answer for. All I intend to do is serve the people of my constituency to the best of my ability.
I want to join with others in extending to you, Mr. Speaker, my sincere congratulations on your election as Speaker of this House of Commons. Although a newcomer to this house I have read with great interest the proceedings of the short parliament, and I could not help but be impressed by your mental dexterity and ability in conducting the affairs of the house.
As has been pointed out, the Speaker of this House of Commons occupies a unique position and, I suggest, one peculiar to the British system of government. He represents all the parties in the house and though he is usually nominated by the prime minister of the day, it does not necessarily follow that such will be the case. With your ability, your fairness and your sense of duty I am sure the affairs of this house will be conducted now, as in the past, in fairness to all with the approval of the whole house.
At one o'clock the house took recess.


[Stage Direction]
AFTER RECESS

The house resumed at 2.30 p.m.
Robert Dugald Caldwell Stewart: I would like at this time, Mr. Speaker, to extend a word of appreciation to the mover (Mr. Lafreniere) and the seconder (Mr. Nielsen) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne. Although separated by a great distance geographically these two gentlemen have two things in common, youth and a manifest desire to assist the people who have sent them to this parliament.
As one of the members from New Brunswick I would like on behalf of the people of that province and the people of my own constituency in particular to voice our appreciation of the magnificent work done by the Minister of Veterans Affairs. He has at all times lent a very sympathetic and considerate ear to our problems. I would also like, on behalf of the people of my constituency, to voice a word of appreciation of the work of the Department of Public Works in my area during the past few months, for the work that is contemplated and for the work that will be done in the next year or so.
I was rather surprised to find that some of the members of the opposition were opposed to the program of public works outlined. It is very significant that the great republic to the south is now engaged on such projects to assist in the current unemployment situation. I can speak with some authority, as during
the period 1944-45 I was engaged as an engineer by the Department of Public Works, operating out of the Saint John office. At that time we were engaged in what was known as the post-war planning development. Unfortunately that scheme was dropped, so that when this depression or recession came about we had no shelf of public works available to us. I know that it is not possible to start public works projects overnight. Surveys must be carried out, plans must be made and estimates obtained, all as preliminary steps to the actual work being started, and had the Liberal government prior to June 10, 1957, established such a shelf of works, then I am sure we would not have had the difficulties we experienced during last summer.
I do not wish the Minister of Public Works or the Minister of Transport to become too complacent about this matter, because I am sure they will find there are still many projects awaiting their attention in my constituency, and if I should be insistent and impatient I hope they will realize 1 am only trying to better conditions for the people I represent.
I would also like on behalf of the people of Charlotte to renew our pledges of loyalty and devotion to the Prime Minister. My words are most inadequate to express to him our feelings for what he has done for our constituency and for the people of New Brunswick generally. While my predecessor was in this house and during the period between the second world war and the 1957 election nothing was done to assist the maritime provinces or the province of New Brunswick in particular. When we asked for power or the money to develop power we were told that we did not have any industries requiring power. When we asked for industries we were told the reverse, that we had no power with which to provide industry.
The present Prime Minister, however, realized the inequalities under which the maritimes area was operating and very generously persuaded his government to make additional grants over and above the amounts called for under the tax rental agreements, and I am sure that was greatly appreciated by the people of my constituency. He has, Mr. Speaker, in my opinion blazed a path of hope across the face of the maritimes which neither time nor political fortunes will ever erase. He has given to the people of the Atlantic area a new hope, a new courage for the future, and I am sure those people, along with the people of the rest of Canada, will join with him in bringing to fulfilment his national policy for our country.
I represent a small constituency in terms of population. It is bounded on the south by

three islands and the bay of Fundy, on the west by the state of Maine, on the north by York-Sunbury and on the east by Saint John-Albert. Although the great majority of my people are fishermen or are engaged in the fishing industry, and for that reason require special consideration, I want to tell this house that they are among the finest people in the world; and I can say that without blowing my own trumpet as I am not a native of Charlotte. It has been my privilege during the past 18 years, however, first as an engineer during the war and then as a practising lawyer, to live among them; and I can assure you, Mr. Speaker, that I speak from the bottom of my heart when I say I am proud to represent these people in this house, and that I know they are deserving of better consideration than they have received in the past.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Robert Dugald Caldwell Stewart: During the period since the second world war several economic changes have taken place in my constituency which have been very detrimental to the peace and security of the people there. I do not entirely blame these changes on political considerations, but it is significant that since 1945, when my predecessor came to this house, great calamity has descended on my constituents. First there was the closing of the Pennfield airport, which in my opinion was closed entirely for political reasons. Then prior to the 1957 election there was the closing of the textile mill at Milltown.
I want to bring to the attention of this house the plight of the people of Milltown. They will shortly run out of all unemployment insurance benefits, and we will have approximately 600 families out of work in that town.
I was rather interested to learn that within the last few days the province of Nova Scotia has decided to build a textile mill in the depressed area of Pictou county, costing approximately $100,000, which they will rent to a textile firm from Italy for the purpose of carrying on manufacturing. Surely this government, in co-operation with the government of New Brunswick, can do something for the town of Milltown, and I am bringing this matter to the attention of the Minister of Trade and Commerce and also to the attention of Mr. Pichette, minister of industry and development in the province of New Brunswick.
We had a third change, also. That was the closing of the army camp at Utopia. During the last campaign that camp was a major issue in the election, but my worthy opponent and my predecessor knew that
57071-3-23J
The Address-Mr. Stewart when the decision was made by his government to make a permanent camp of Camp Gagetown, camp Utopia as an army base would be closed. I have hopes that the facilities and buildings of that camp can still be used for the betterment of the people of my constituency, and plans are now being discussed with the province of New Brunswick whereby this camp may be utilized, thereby avoiding it being a total loss.
I have referred to these three things as affecting the economy of Charlotte county. In 1931 the number of people in New Brunswick living on farms amounted to 44.1 per cent of the total population, but in 1956 this dropped to 23.3 per cent. In 1931 the farm population in New Brunswick was 180,000, while in 1956 in round figures it was 128,000. A corresponding decrease was noted in my constituency where the farm population now stands, according to the latest available figures, at 1,872, occupying 469 farms.
According to the latest available figures from the department of industry and development of the province of New Brunswick, the gross value of manufactured production for 1954 was $287,350,000; and in the breakdown of that table, Mr. Speaker, we notice that the fish processing industry consists of 166 plants employing 2,742 people with a gross value in 1955 of approximately $23 million for the whole province of New Brunswick.
Many hon. members of this house will remember the opposition voiced by my predecessor when the province of New Brunswick obtained the loan toward the Beechwood power development. Whether or not the Beechwood project is sound from an engineering viewpoint, it was certainly not part of my predecessor's duty to oppose it, because it was certainly for the benefit of New Brunswick.
There is another field in which I am vitally interested, and that is the field of education. At the present time I hold the position of president of the New Brunswick school trustees' association. During the last 10 years the cost of education has increased in Charlotte county by 128 per cent, throwing an enormous burden on the municipality. This is a very important consideration for this government, and I am hoping that in some way the Dominion of Canada may see its way clear to advancing additional grants to the province of New Brunswick and to the various municipalities so the burden may be removed from, the tax-ridden local authorities.
The speech from the throne indicated some of the proposed legislation, but it is not allinclusive, and other proposals beneficial to the dominion could be introduced I was-

The Address-Mr. Stewart very interested, as a practising lawyer, in the contemplated bill of rights. As I mentioned before, I have been practising law for 25 years, and in some instances I have found that individual freedom and liberty has been curtailed under our new system of jurisprudence. I think there should be a return to those fundamental rights which were granted to our forefathers and enjoyed by our predecessors; that no one should be dispossessed of his land or punished without a fair trial by his peers. These are matters which cannot be expressed in terms of dollars; they go to the very root of democracy and are the very lifeblood of civilization.
I am pleased to note that an amendment has been adopted extending the period of seasonal benefits under the Unemployment Insurance Act. May I suggest to the Minister of Fisheries that a further amendment be made to provide greater benefits to the fishermen of the maritime area, particularly to those men who are fishermen as well as owners.
The making available of funds under the National Housing Act is also a step in the right direction, because without homes people cannot live. May I suggest for the consideration of this house that we should also establish small industries in various municipalities and communities so that people will be encouraged to enter those communities and live there, setting up homes and raising families.
These are some of the problems facing the people of my constituency. These people do not wish me to come before this house begging; we are not asking for anything we do not deserve. We are asking that we be included once again within New Brunswick and within Canada. My worthy opponent, my predecessor in this house, told Upper Canada, when speaking here on one occasion, that the people of Charlotte were nothing but a bunch of smugglers. That is hardly true. We live, it is true, near the United States border and to some extent certain American influence bears upon the islands. But, as I said before, these are the finest people in the world and they are only asking that they be treated as human beings.
We have great potentialities in Charlotte. We have many tourist attractions, and all we need is a little assistance and help. We now have a great power development in the process of investigation, the Quoddy project, by means of which the tides of the bay of Fundy will be harnessed to make cheap power. We have also, on Campobello island, the old home of the late Franklin D. Roosevelt, which could be made into an important tourist attraction.

I mentioned earlier that we had three islands. One of these islands will shortly be joined to the state of Maine by a bridge which will give to the people of Campobello some of the benefits enjoyed on the mainland. However, the island of Grand Manan is desperately in need of a new ferry with adequate facilities for the transportation of automobiles and cargo.
These are matters which will be mentioned in this house and brought to the attention of the government. All we ask is that we should receive co-operation and assistance so that together with the other maritime areas we can go along with the Prime Minister in his policy of developing the national economy.


Mr. Lucien Cardin (Richelieu-Vercheres):: Mr. Speaker, may I join with other hon. members on both sides of the house in extending to you my sincere congratulations upon your re-election to your high office. I was delighted to hear the Prime Minister mention your name when it came to the appointment of a Speaker. I am sure that all hon. members who were in this house last session were impressed by the manner in which you presided over our deliberations. There may have been other Speakers who were, perhaps, more technically-minded than yourself, but I am sure there was no Speaker who was more fair-minded or more human and understanding than Your Honour, and it is with pleasure that I offer you my congratulations and best wishes.
( Translation):
Mr. Speaker, I also want to congratulate the hon. member for Quebec-Montmorency (Mr. Lafreniere) on having moved in such eloquent terms the address in reply to the speech from the throne. I also imagine that the hon. member does not expect me entirely to share his political views but, even while not sharing them, I may at least say that I respect them. I am happy to wish him a long and brilliant career in our parliament.
(Text):
I should also like to extend my congratulations to the hon. member for Yukon (Mr. Nielsen) on the way he seconded the address in reply to the speech from the throne. I listened with interest to the very interesting speech he made on the northland, and I hope the house will have an opportunity to listen to him often this session.
Now that the election campaign is over and the dust has settled somewhat I indeed want to congratulate the Prime Minister and the members of the government on having won the confidence of the Canadian people and on having obtained not only a mandate but a great majority in the House of Commons. Such a vote of confidence is certainly an

enviable tribute, of which any Prime Minister and any political party might well be proud. But of course, underlying this tribute of the Canadian people there is the feeling of great expectation of things to come, and I sincerely hope the government will be successful in implementing all its policies and promises and that the policies themselves will prove to be effective and in the best interests of the Canadian people.
As a result of the last election the House of Commons has lost from the three opposition parties a great number of sincere and competent, and in some cases brilliant, parliamentarians who have made indelible marks in the political, economic and social structure of our country, and to whom Canada owes a great debt of gratitude. It might be timely to remind the Canadian people that there is nothing shameful, nothing disgraceful and nothing personal for a man in public life to experience defeat in an election campaign and it would indeed be wrong not to pay tribute to those hon. members who have gone down to defeat after many years, in some cases after a lifetime, in the service of their country in the very exacting, largely misunderstood and frequently thankless position of member of parliament.
Canada apparently is now witnessing the end of a political era and the beginning of another, and I feel quite sure every hon. member on either side of the house in looking back over the last quarter century of our country's history will feel justifiable pride in the rapid and extensive steps Canada has taken in its march toward nationhood. I feel quite certain that no country in the world can boast of having developed so much in such a short time. The jobless and poverty stricken people of Canada of the depression era now enjoy the second highest standard of living in the world. From a practically exclusively agricultural country we have developed an efficient and powerful industrial machine and have become the world's fourth largest trading nation. No country in the world of 17 million population enjoys as extensive and comprehensive social legislation as does Canada. In spite of world war II, the economic difficulties of the post-war years and the Korean war the Canadian economy did not falter. Prosperity and employment continued at reasonably stable levels, and there was no serious and lasting post-war recession.
In the international field where world trade, international diplomacy and world peace affect our country more than at any other period of our history, Canada evolved from an internationally isolated and unknown country to take the lead among the middlesized nations of the world. As a matter of
The Address-Mr. Cardin fact Canada as a middle-sized nation has not only effectively supported peace organizations such as NATO and the United Nations, but Canada actually was instrumental in avoiding a third world war during the Suez crisis. I am indeed proud to remind the house that it was the present Leader of the Opposition in his capacity as secretary of state for external affairs who through his tireless, courageous and timely negotiations succeeded in maintaining peace by establishing the United Nations emergency force in the Middle East. With all due respect to the Minister of Transport may I say that the present Leader of the Opposition accomplished this without the estimable help of the present very capable and versatile Prime Minister.
As Canada enters a new political era under a Conservative government the House of Commons presents a practically new slate of members with an average age group apparently lower than it has been for many years. I feel confident, however, that the new members will be able to pick up and carry on where the older and more experienced members of the house left off. There are, of course, new standards to be achieved, new adjustments to be made and new solutions to old problems to be tried out, as more particularly set forth in the government's policy platform and promises. One of these main problems to my mind will be an economic readjustment. I am afraid that Canada will face much stiffer competition in the world and the home markets. Somehow there will have to be a halt to the continually rising prices in our country if we expect to sell our products at home and abroad and maintain the stable economy we have known until now. There will also have to be some serious readjustment of Canada's trading position in view of the probable creation of economic blocs such as the European customs union which I believe will characterize the new era as the political and military bloc characterized the last decade or so. I strongly suspect that the battles between east and west will be fought in the economic and scientific fields rather than in the military field. All this, of course, will not make it any easier for anyone charged with the administration of the country's business.
It might be useful to remind ourselves that it is the earnest desire, the ardent hope and indeed the duty of each member of the house to do his best to ensure that the legislation passed during this present parliament will meet successfully the various problems of these times and will result in even greater economic, political and social stability and progress than we have known in the past. It is quite clear from the speeches and policy declarations made during the campaign that

The Address-Mr. Cardin we will not always agree on the best way of achieving a universally desired objective, and of course under our parliamentary system members of the opposition have not only a right but an obligation to be constructively critical of the government's actions in such a way that the public may be informed of as many solutions to the problems as possible.
During this parliament the government with 208 members has an overwhelming majority over the 57 total official opposition members, but this in no way should imply a diminution or decrease in the rights and privileges to which the opposition is entitled by the constitution, the traditions and the rules and practices of this house. The rights and privileges that were claimed by hon. members opposite when they were the official opposition are equally justified today, and I believe they should be guarded more jealously and more scrupulously than at any other time in our history precisely because of the government's record majority.
It is certainly to be hoped that the attitude taken by the government during the last session is not an indication of what the opposition is to expect during this parliament. In his speech on May 13, as recorded at page 35 of Hansard, the Prime Minister said:
Having done something to restore parliament in the measures which we have in mind-
And so on. I must say I am a little concerned about the measures the Prime Minister may have in mind. Of course there can be no question of not bringing down a regular budget this year, no matter how great a deficit the government may have incurred; and surely the measures the Prime Minister has in mind will continue to give parliament the right to have a debate on the budget, to scrutinize, to question and to vote on all the estimates of all the departments of government. As hon. members know, that was not done during the past session and hundreds of millions of dollars worth spent by governor general's warrants without bringing the estimates of the majority of the departments before the house, leaving an unprecedented gap in the budgetary history of our country. When the Prime Minister speaks of having done something to restore parliament, I wonder whether he has in mind the extraordinary procedure followed by the government in dissolving parliament last February. Those who were in the house or in the galleries that day will realize that there was much more stage setting and more theatri-calism than there was respect for the rights and traditions of parliament, or even fairness in the manner in which the house was dissolved.

Even Hansard could not record the atmosphere that was voluntarily built up around the dissolution of the house-the mystery surrounding the Prime Minister's flight to Quebec, the tension that was allowed to mount in the house from three o'clock on, the time when the Prime Minister arrived from Quebec, the photographers' flash bulbs as the Prime Minister entered the government lobby, his grand march into the House of Commons, the politically tinted valedictory speech he made at that time, and finally the solemn announcement that the members of parliament had been sitting for nothing because His Excellency the Governor General had already dissolved parliament.
Nor could Hansard record the vehement and justifiable protests of the leaders of the opposition groups against having been ruthlessly and unfairly cut off from saying one word in reply, contrary to all the customs and traditions of the house. Even Your Honour could not rule on the legality or fairness of the procedure that was followed in dissolving the house because there was no longer any House of Commons for Your Honour to preside over.
This type of procedure, I submit, may be interesting at Stratford on Avon and might even be justified and useful in a criminal court, but it has no place in the parliament of our country, and is all the more shocking coming from someone who such a very short time ago spoke so eloquently and so forcibly about the necessity of preserving the rights and dignity of this parliament. This incident, of course, did not win the election for the Conservatives and lose it for the Liberals. The Canadian public made their choice and I abide by it. But I feel certain that the people of Canada do not approve of and did not vote for government by tyranny or by drama, no matter how great majority they may have given the present government.
I also wonder, Mr. Speaker, whether the Prime Minister considered he was doing something to restore parliament in his recent attempt to ignore what has always been the accepted traditional and constitutional procedure of the house when dealing with international agreements of the importance of the NORAD pact which, as hon. members know, involves the stationing of Canadian troops abroad. Never before in the history of our country, and I am quite certain the Prime Minister was well aware of this, has Canada entered into an international agreement involving the stationing of Canadian troops abroad without introducing such an agreement in the house by way of a resolution and having the agreement ratified by parliament after a full and formal discussion

in the house; and this, Mr. Speaker, I submit, regardless of whether there was or was not unanimity on the particular agreement.
Never before has any prime minister seen fit to alter the customs and traditions followed by the house even on matters far less consequential than the NORAD pact simply because the prime minister presumed the opposition would be in favour of the agreement or because he considered the opposition not sufficiently strong or numerous to make a difference in the final outcome of the vote. As hon. members know the Prime Minister finally decided, after pressure was put on him by the Leader of the Opposition, to introduce the agreement by way of a resolution. It is, however, difficult to recognize the great defender of parliamentary rights in the words and the magnanimous manner in which the Prime Minister permitted members of parliament to talk on the NORAD pact.
Permit me, Mr. Speaker, to read from Hansard what transpired the other day. The Leader of the Opposition put the following supplementary question as found on page 243 of Hansard of May 20:
Will the Prime Minister not give further consideration to the possibility of the House of Commons discussing this agreement in the form of a resolution for approval or disapproval by the house?
In answer the Primer Minister said:
Mr Speaker, yesterday in answer to the question asked by my hon. friend, the Secretary of State for External Affairs said that further opportunity would be given for discussion. The hon. gentleman now suggests that an opportunity might be provided by a general discussion of a resolution in this regard.
I have looked over the records, and in view of the fact that this is part of the NATO concept-
May I interject here that that is certainly a debatable point.
-I do not think there is any reason why this matter should be dealt with in that way.
This to my mind, Mr. Speaker, is the important part.
Also I would point out that I felt that naturally since the previous government had done all the preliminary work in connection with this matter and had arrived at a tentative arrangement, although it was not placed in the form of notes, there would not be any probability of opposition in the acceptance by the house of the agreement or the notes which have passed between those two countries.
I ask you, Mr. Speaker; have we arrived at a point where because the Prime Minister presumes that the opposition will not object to certain legislation, the Prime Minister can do away with what has always been the practice and the tradition of the house and refuse to bring before the house in the proper manner agreements as important as
The Address-Mr. Cardin the NORAD pact? On page 244 the Prime Minister continued with these words:
However, my concept of my position, in view of the disproportionate percentage of government membership in the house, in the opinion of hon. gentlemen opposite, and also because the opposition seems desirous of having a vote in order to show its opposition to the exchange of notes-
May I also interject that that is a gratuitous statement. If the opposition is to decide to vote for or against, it must first of all have had the opportunity of studying what exactly is involved in an agreement as important as the NORAD pact; and I might say, Mr. Speaker, that the whole question of NORAD since its introduction into the house has been a source of confusion increased only by the inability of members of the opposition to obtain precise, definite, logical and noncontradictory answers from the members of the government. The Prime Minister continued:
is that I would have no objection whatsoever to having a resolution submitted so that hon. gentlemen may have the opportunity to stand up and be counted on this matter.
Well, Mr. Speaker, it is incredible that these words should come from the present Prime Minister after all the speeches and promises he made concerning the restoration of the sovereignty, dignity and prestige of parliament, and concerning the rights of members of the opposition. What the Prime Minister is saying in fact is that after trying to short-circuit parliament he has no objection to following the long established and invariable procedure in dealing with international agreements of paramount importance to Canadians as a whole. The Prime Minister, of course, is trying to create the impression that he is doing a favour to the Leader of the Opposition and to the members of the opposition by letting us understand that he is now condescending to have this resolution brought before the house as a matter of generosity.
It is not a matter of generosity or condescension, it is a matter of right.


Mr. Montgomery:: That is a debatable point.


Louis-Joseph-Lucien Cardin: The opposition has a right to try to find out exactly what is involved in this particular agreement. I submit also, Mr. Speaker, that if this government had not finally decided to introduce a resolution on this matter, then the government would have been involved in an extremely serious and unprecedented transgression of the sovereignty of this parliament. I respectfully submit, Mr. Speaker, that this is a far cry indeed from doing something to restore parliament. I cannot help but say here that there have been more attempts at infringement of the rights and sovereignty of parliament in the

The Address-Mr. Cardin
last 12 months than there had been in 22 years of Liberal administration.


Mr. Murphy:: You had better put closure on the record too.


Louis-Joseph-Lucien Cardin: If it was wrong at that time, then closure is still wrong under a Conservative government.
I must turn now to a subject which is uppermost in the minds of all Canadians and that, of course, is unemployment. The fact that the government recently felt compelled to introduce additional emergency unemployment measures is a clear indication that the government feels the country is facing, even now, something more than seasonal unemployment. However, references to unemployment were conspicuously absent from the throne speech. In his speech the other day the Prime Minister tried heroically to create the impression that if unemployment existed at all, it was merely of a temporary or seasonal nature and no serious problem really existed. If that were so what necessity would there have been for introducing new emergency legislation which, in fact, extends seasonal unemployment benefits to seven months out of the year.
Hon. members who were in the house at the time will recall how desperately the government tried to ignore unemployment back in October and November-


Joseph Warner Murphy: What about March?


Louis-Joseph-Lucien Cardin: -and how finally they ran away from the problem altogether in February of this year. Surely, Mr. Speaker, the government knows very well that it cannot pull the ostrich trick a second time without leaving itself in a very vulnerable position indeed. We of the opposition do not intend to be hypnotized into silence on that subject by the continual wagging of that part of the ostrich which is not in the sand.


Joseph Warner Murphy: You tried to hide from the March report, and that was not in the sand.


Louis-Joseph-Lucien Cardin: As hon. members know, at this time of year there should have been a far greater number of unemployed back in the active labour force than has been the case to date. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, as of April 17, 1958, there were 825,359 unplaced applicants. I admit, and I am very happy to do so, that 74,000 people found employment during the last month. In this morning's Gazette there is an announcement of a decrease in unemployment. I was nevertheless very much concerned about the first sentence in that article. It states:
Canadian employment in April moved ahead of the year-before figure, but unemployment remained substantially higher than in April, 1957.

It is the last part, Mr. Speaker, which I believe is important. Still, there are people who are unemployed who are not considered part of the group usually classed as seasonally unemployed. There is unemployment which is far above the normal seasonal unemployment level.


Mr. Browne (St. John's West):: So what?


Louis-Joseph-Lucien Cardin: So what? What is 820,000
unemployed? It does not matter to you at all.


William Joseph Browne: Yes, it does, but they have the same problem in the United States.


Louis-Joseph-Lucien Cardin: Let the United States look after their problems. It is up to this government to look after ours.


Mr. Baskin:: The Liberals did not make a very good job of it.


Louis-Joseph-Lucien Cardin: In addition to that, if something was wrong during the Liberal regime it would still be wrong now. If members of the government feel they cannot look after these important questions like unemployment, then I am sure we can tell them how that can be done.


Joseph Warner Murphy: What about March 31?


Louis-Joseph-Lucien Cardin: Perhaps if effective action had been taken in October and November of last year, and if parliament had not been paralysed for three or four months in the early part of this year, the situation might not have been as serious as it is today.
The prospects for work in my riding, where there has been alarming unemployment for some time, are far from good. Sorel Industries are contemplating suspending their operations; Marine Industries will of necessity have to make serious cut-backs in their personnel; Quebec Iron and Titanium already have let out some 250 to 300 men, and Quebec Titanium Pigments are extremely worried about the difficulty of liquidating their stocks, so are considering reducing their production. Then, too, the textile mill in Sorel is going through the same crisis as all textile mills in the country.
No matter how eloquently or how often members of the government may claim that unemployment has reached the bottom and recession no longer exists, the people in the plants I have mentioned, and indeed in plants throughout the country, will be extremely difficult to convince that there is really no unemployment.


James William Baskin: What government allowed the textile industry to disappear?


Louis-Joseph-Lucien Cardin: If the hon. member wishes to make a speech he can do so when I sit

down. Everyone in the house and in the country is very anxious to see the number of unemployed substantially decrease, and that as soon as possible. Canadians have a right to expect that the government will tackle the problem of unemployment and solve it, as the Prime Minister promised he would during the election campaign. I can easily understand why the other day the Prime Minister said he did not wish to relive the last political campaign, during the course of which Canada was made to feel that the Prime Minister really had the only solutions to all the problems.
I must say, however, that I was not a little surprised to hear the Prime Minister say, in addressing the house, that he was not going to get into a political argument. Well, Mr. Speaker, if the Prime Minister does not intend to engage in a political argument in the House of Commons, when does he propose to engage in political controversy? Surely he does not intend to call another election within a few months? It was only after the Prime Minister did engage in a political controversy, after claiming that he would not, that we realized he was once again resorting to some sort of figure of speech. The attempt at humour which he uses to slip out from under an embarrassing political argument reminds me very much of another political figure, well known in Quebec, who has the habit of evading serious and well-founded political arguments with what he considers to be humour. The Prime Minister was indeed funny-


Mr. Chevrier:: He generally is.


James William Baskin: He was not funny on March 31.


Louis-Joseph-Lucien Cardin: -when, as reported at page 39 of Hansard he said:
My hon. friends who suddenly developed an interest in tax cuts did not develop it until after they were not in a position to do anything.
That was indeed very funny. Hon. members opposite thought that was quite a cute statement. But I wonder whether that is any funnier than having hon. members opposite develop a tax-cut complex before the June 10 election and promptly forget about it when they were in a position to do something about it.


James William Baskin: They made the first major tax cuts in 20 years.


Louis-Joseph-Lucien Cardin: We are talking about tax cuts. We are not talking about tax scratches such as what the government did at the last session.


Mr. Speaker:: Order. I would remind hon. members that it is not necessary to comment on everything the hon. member says.
The Address-Mr. Cardin


Lionel Chevrier: They don't like it, Mr. Speaker.


Louis-Joseph-Lucien Cardin: Apparently not everyone is of the opinion that the matter of tax cuts is a laughing matter. As reported in the Montreal Gazette of April 21, 1958 we find the following:
A report of the Rockefeller brothers fund called tonight for quick, co-ordinated government and business action-including a major federal tax cut -to end the U.S. recession . . .
The Rockefeller report, prepared by a panel of 17 business men, economists and educators, did not specify the size of the proposed tax cut.
However, the context of the report made it clear that a reduction of several billions of dollars had been meant. Members of the panel said that a $5,000,000,000 figure had been in preliminary drafts, but had been eliminated from the final version because of disagreement among committee members.
Apparently in the United States tax cuts are not considered as being humourous. I might also remind hon. members opposite that tax cuts were not mentioned by anyone in the United States during the fiscal year 1956-57. It is only since the autumn of 1957, when the recession was being felt both in the United States and in Canada, that tax cuts would have been desirable, necessary and effective in combating unemployment and the present recession.
All the Conservative government had to do was follow the former Liberal policy of cutting taxes in times of economic instability or, better yet, follow their own policy of tax cuts, the one they were talking about before the June 10 election. In any event, that course would have been far more effective and more in the general interest of the Canadian people than that of running away from the problem of unemployment last February.


James William Baskin: The Canadian people did not think we ran away.


Louis-Joseph-Lucien Cardin: Today the government has all the power and all the authority it needs to implement policies which it believes will best combat the recession. As a matter of fact there is really only one thing the government cannot do, and that is this. It cannot make the people of Canada believe that there is no recession or that there is no unemployment.


Mr. Graffley:: Your are going to talk us into one.


Louis-Joseph-Lucien Cardin: We would be following your example in 1954 and 1955 if that were the case. But what we are trying to do is to wake this government up and urge it to take the necessary steps it had in mind during the campaign.
(Translation):
Mr. Speaker, I wish to congratulate the hon. member for Longueuil (Mr. Sevigny) on

The Address-Mr. Cardin his appointment as vice-chairman of the house. I am particularly glad to offer him my best wishes, our two constituencies being linked geographically if not politically, and because we both have at heart the best interests of the people of that beautiful part of the province of Quebec, the south shore of Montreal island.
I should like also to congratulate the hon. members for Labelle and Lotbiniere (Messrs. Courtemanche and O'Hurley) on their appointment to important cabinet posts. I shall in no way hesitate to say that the people of the province of Quebec are placing much reliance on those two representatives for the protection of its rights and privileges. I am glad also to wish them good luck and my best regards.
Mr. Speaker, I should like to thank the people of the Richelieu-Vercheres riding for the confidence they have shown me at the last election in renewing my term of office.
I am very happy and proud of the Liberal victory in my riding; for my part, I shall spare neither time nor effort to look after the welfare of the whole population of Richelieu-Vercheres.
Among the Conservative members from the province of Quebec here present there are many who bear the mark of the Union Nationale party, with everything which that entails. I shall not refer to the type of electoral campaign which the Union Nationale party waged in the last election, as I am ashamed to think that our province tolerates this type of political manoeuvring which is in the process of destroying all sense of political responsibility and morality among our population.


An hon. Member:: Order.


Louis-Joseph-Lucien Cardin: But when I look around in this house, I cannot help wondering how much it has cost the treasury and the people of Quebec for the presence among us of so many members of the Union Nationale.


An hon. Member:: Order.


Louis-Joseph-Lucien Cardin: I admit, Mr. Speaker, that I am quite anxious to hear these hon. members tell us on what grounds they would have us believe that the present government is less centralizing than the former, when as a matter of fact the speech from the throne forecasts certain legislation that will draw the government deeper into the provincial field.
Nor will they find it easy to explain how the autonomy of the province is less threatened than before June 10, since financial relations

between the provinces and the present government are exactly on the same basis as they were under the Liberal administration.
(Text):


Mr. Speaker:: Order. I am sorry to interrupt the hon. member, but I must inform him that his time has expired.


Mr. L. R. Crouse (Queens-Lunenburg):: My
first words will be to compliment you, Mr. Speaker, upon your re-election to your high office. Your legal and parliamentary experience and knowledge, your sense of duty and good humour commend you as the unanimous choice of this house. I should also like to congratulate the Deputy Speaker and the deputy chairman of committees, as well as the mover (Mr. Lafreniere) and the seconder (Mr. Nielsen) of the address. I should also like to take this opportunity of thanking the majority of the good people of Queens-Lunenburg who honoured me by reelecting me to this house.
Since the opening of the 24th parliament I have listened with much interest to the many speeches made by the new members as well as the senior members of the Conservative party, and much has been said in which I concur. I have also listened with interest to the remarks made by the survivors of the shipwrecked Liberal party. Some hon. members, as they pop up and down, remind me of a baby whale as it spouts its hot air to the four winds.
During the 23rd parliament I was somewhat amused by the actions of the hon. member for Bonavista-Twillingate (Mr. Pickersgill) as well as other former cabinet ministers of the derelict Liberal party as, one by one, like a lobster with the bait in its claws, they arrived in this house dragging after them the red book of the Conservative party's promises.
Just like the bait that trapped the lobster, that book of Conservative pledges was the undoing of the Liberal party, for every one has been implemented or is in the process of being implemented by the Prime Minister and his party.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Grimm's fairy tales.


Lloyd Roseville Crouse: We have just listened to the hon. member for Richelieu-Vercheres discuss unemployment in Canada. We are all aware of the unemployment situation which is existing in our country today, and there is no member of this house who is not kept constantly informed of conditions within his own riding, but unemployment is not just something which happens of itself. It has causes, and the logical way to deal with it is to search out those causes and try to cure them.

From the results of the election of March 31 there appears to be little doubt in the minds of the Canadian people that the blame for the situation does not belong at the feet of this government. Part of it, however, can be laid upon the fumbling and lack of action of the former Liberal administration, who were indifferent during their term of office to the wants of the Canadian people. We have experienced in this country a number of years of war-born prosperity, enhanced by the rapid development of our natural resources and new technological advances. During these years of easy prosperity our production costs, however, have risen faster than the prices we were receiving, and when the time arrived when we had to reduce our prices in order to make sales we found ourselves saddled with costs we were powerless to reduce. We seemed to have reached the stage at which the markets could no longer absorb our products at the prices we were asking. We had failed to reduce our costs; we had failed to reduce our prices, and we are failing to sell our products.
As our export sales have fallen off unemployment has increased among us. We cannot long continue to shut our eyes to the realities of the market and ask that our purchasing power be increased by increasing the number of dollars in circulation. The only way purchasing power can be increased is by increasing the production of those things which can be sold. In the final analysis it is the sale of goods with which we are concerned, for unless we export we perish economically.
Wage increases are of little value when we consider that all their advantage has been lost because they have caused higher living costs and prices and have brought about a slowing down of sales, increasing unemployment throughout the nation. This is a fact which must be impressed upon all union leaders as well as other classes within this nation, for there are many people in Canada who are unable to increase their incomes by means of union demands. I refer to the unorganized workers, the self-employed, the farmers, the fishermen, the lumbermen, those who are living on their savings and on their pensions. They, in addition to the unemployed, are the greatest sufferers from inflation caused by this continuous increase in wages. It is the responsibility of the government to assist these people wherever possible, and I wish to commend the government for extending the period during which unemployment insurance benefits are to be received. I submit, however, that one of the most important problems facing this government today is the problem of inflation. The incomes and savings of the majority of 57071-3-24i
The Address-Mr. Crouse our people are defined in stated numbers of dollars, and I believe it is the duty of the government to maintain the value of that dollar at a constant level and make certain that no action is taken or policy adopted which will further depreciate the purchasing power of our medium of exchange.
We have heard criticism, and much of it, this afternoon to the effect that no action has been taken to provide work for our people. While I do not believe the government can deal entirely with the situation, it can, working within the framework of industry, provide a stimulus. I have read the speech from the throne, and in my opinion it is the blueprint for progress and expansion throughout every part of Canada from the Atlantic to the Pacific; it is a realization of the economic situation which exists in Canada today and it is a dynamic plan to bring our country out of the economic doldrums and out of the Sargasso sea of uncertainty into which we have drifted in 22 years of Liberal cross currents.
I do not believe that Canada is today adrift in a fog. The plan for our future development is embodied in this throne speech for all to see. It outlines the plan for progress which is indicative of the vision of our Prime Minister and the present government. Plans are being made to accelerate the construction of useful public works and encourage the developing and processing of our vast natural resources. The government's plan to promote housing is commendable, for we know from past experience that this will be of great benefit to the manufacturing and building trades throughout the nation. This plan to further assist in the construction of new homes shows an awareness by the present government of the needs of many Canadian citizens.
Canada's population today is growing at an enormous rate, and this country is now in the world's most favourable position in terms of numbers of people and the resources with which to support them. Canada's annual growth rate was about 2.1 per cent, the highest of any western industrial nation, between 1946 and 1951, and it then hit an amazing 2.8 per cent between 1951 and 1956. Heavy immigration and a comparatively high birth rate accounted for the spurt in Canada's growth in population, which reached approximately 17 million this spring. To these citizens new housing loans will be a blessing.
Assistance to provincial governments for special projects, expansion of airports and airways, increased work on our harbours, rivers and public buildings, the construction of a railway to Great Slave lake, construction of the South Saskatchewan dam, and new research programs to assist in the mineral

The Address

Mr. Crouse development of our Arctic islands, all constitute a broad vision for the better future of Canadians generally. I mention these points, for they seem to have been overlooked by the opposition members when they were making reference to the speech from the throne.
I have the honour to represent the constituency of Queens-Lunenburg in Nova Scotia, which was at one time referred to as "down east". We do not hear this expression a great deal today, but in the days of wooden ships and iron men it was very common and being a down-easter set a man apart as one of the hardy breed who brought wealth and honour to our province and were responsible for many of the Canadian "firsts" belonging to Nova Scotia.
At Port Royal, for example, there was the first white settlement of Canada by the French, and at Halifax there was the first English town. Both the first Roman Catholic and Protestant churches were founded in Nova Scotia, as were the first grist mill, lighthouse, coal mine, law court, newspaper, dockyard and school. There Canada's first airplane flight was also made and the first drama to be written and staged, to name but a few.
With the passing of wooden ships as the most important means of travel, Nova Scotia did fall behind in the new era of industry and manufacture. A generation brought up in the tradition that our destiny was to carry a large part of the world's commerce appeared to be at a loss when the pattern changed. That was only a pause in our development, however, and throughout the whole province a new spirit of progress is awakening. We are looking ahead to see what we can do to make Nova Scotia a worthy home for the people who make up our families, our friends and our neighbours.
To this end I commend the government for outlining in the speech from the throne that unremitting efforts will be made to sell Canadian agricultural and fisheries products in the markets of the world. Our economy in Nova Scotia, and throughout the whole of the Atlantic provinces, is firmly based upon the fishing industry. It is the backbone of our foundries and shipyards and provides work for our wood lot owners who supply the shipyards with native wood for ship construction, as well as keeping a large number of our people employed in the shore fish processing plants.
Throughout my riding, from Mill Cove in Lunenburg county to St. Catherines river in Queens county, many of my people are directly engaged in deep sea or shore fishing. In Queens county the fishermen are mainly concerned with lobster fishing, while in

Lunenburg county the majority of the fishermen are engaged in deep sea or bank fishing. Due to the size of the Canadian population the bulk of the fresh fish catch, approximately 70 per cent, is sold on the United States market. The dried salt cod is still exported to traditional markets in the British West Indies, and in view of these facts all fishermen are deeply conscious of government effort to improve trade relations, not only with Great Britain but also with the United States. We in the Atlantic provinces must export our fish or we die economically.
Our market for salt codfish has now become the federation of the West Indies and this federation, faced with grave constitutional and financial problems, is looking to the new world for help. Their aim is to become a self-governing dominion within the commonwealth, but to do this they will need outside help along with hard work on the part of the some 3 million people of mixed origins in 10 British colonies made up of more than 15 islands in the Caribbean. While these islands are a mere 8,000 square miles of land, they are spread over a thousand-mile area of the Caribbean. The economies of these islands are similar and, outside of bauxite in Jamaica and oil in Trinidad, are based largely on exports of sugar, rum, bananas, citrus fruits and juices, cocoa, coffee, spices, copra and cotton.
In my opinion this new federation presents a challenge to Canada. Here is an opportunity to provide assistance to a people who are determined to take their place in the commonwealth, whose ideas of government coincide with ours, not communistic but democratic, with a parliament modelled after the British parliament. They must overcome terrific problems, for as separate British colonies these islands had erected customs and tariff barriers and also immigration bars against one another. These prevented the free flow of goods among the islands as well as preventing the citizens from moving freely from one island to the other. However, they are getting on with the job, and I commend the government for offering to donate a ship which will be built in Canada after the federation decides the type and size which will be most useful.
I would further suggest to the government that we investigate the possibility of increasing our imports from the new federation of bananas, citrus juices and dried citrus pulp, which is a valuable supplement in the feeding of beef and dairy cattle. Our imports of coffee and cocoa should also be stepped up, to say nothing about the traditional liquid we have imported into Nova Scotia for years.

This action on the part of Canada, will immediately provide the dollars needed to import from Canada potatoes, salt codfish and lumber, to name but a few of the items needed by a growing nation. This activity will stimulate our own economy, provide work for our people in the Atlantic provinces and again create industry in ports such as Liverpool and Port Medway in Queens county as well as the ports of Bridgewater and Lunenburg, where for years shiploads of lumber and fish were carried to the West Indies.
Speaking of fish, our great industry in the Atlantic provinces, I should like to refer to recent articles in the Halifax Herald and the Globe and Mail with regard to the quality at present exported to the West Indies. Complaints were registered by three members of the new West Indies government with regard to the price, quality and flavour of salt codfish presently obtained from Canada. Apparently there has been a decline in the quality of fish received from Canada, and some importers would like to obtain the high quality formerly received from Nova Scotia.
In my opinion the reason for this is the fact that Nova Scotia still uses the dory schooner in the catching of cod for the salt fish industry, though their numbers are declining; only 14 such vessels were in use during last year throughout the maritimes. Their numbers are declining because of inability to secure crews to go in fishing dories. However, it is an accepted fact that larger, better quality codfish are caught by hook and line than by the dragger method, as trawls can be set in areas where draggers cannot operate.
With this thought in mind, I believe encouragement should be given the industry by the government to combine the modern method of long lining, along with the schooner or mother ship. A schooner could accommodate on her deck four long liners, 40 feet in length, which could be loaded by the use of davits. The schooner would need to have a wider beam than usual to take care of the deck load, but this would increase her carrying capacity. The original cost of this combined operation would be rather excessive for private industry, but I believe the construction of a ship of this nature on a trial basis should be encouraged by the government with the hope of re-establishing the cod fishing, as well as strengthening the shipbuilding, industry and all allied industries by providing work in the shipyards of the maritimes.
I should like to say a few words at this time regarding the St. Lawrence seaway, on which I understand three-quarters of the work has been completed. This will cost the
The Address-Mr. Crouse Canadian people some $300 million, and I question whether this will ever be recovered within the 50-year recapture period or longer, regardless of the tolls charged. I should like to point out, however, the serious effects I believe this seaway will have upon our Canadian shipping industry. At the present time Canadian law permits ships of commonwealth registry to carry goods between Canadian ports. Under that privilege, ships of United Kingdom registry are rapidly taking over a growing share of Canada's domestic shipping business. In 1953 ships of United Kingdom registry carried five and one-half per cent of the traffic in the Canadian coastal trade, with 36 ships operating here. In 1954 they sent over 44 ships which carried seven and one-half per cent of the traffic, picking up an extra half million tons of cargo. In 1955 with 52 ships they picked up 10 per cent of the business with an increase of 1.2 million tons, and again in 1956 United Kingdom ships were up to 14 per cent of the traffic with 56 vessels carrying 2.3 million tons more than in 1955.
In 1956 United Kingdom flags carried all the iron ore moved up the St. Lawrence river from Seven Islands; 81 per cent of the coal from Cape Breton to St. Lawrence river ports, and much of the cargo shipped to sub-Arctic regions. The Canadian taxpayer pays part of the freight on Cape Breton coal moved inland under a policy of assisting the coal miner. He also pays much of the freight on cargo going to the Arctic, since it includes supplies used for defence and other government establishments. Yet, the majority of these shipping companies and their employees who move that freight pay no taxes in Canada. Unless this situation is changed it will be a matter of only a few years after the opening of the seaway, which is being built at such great cost to the Canadian taxpayer, until the Canadian coastal and inland lake and river fleet goes the same way as the Canadian deep sea fleet, which is out of business.
At the end of world war II we had the greatest merchant fleet per capita of any nation in the world. However, the former Liberal administration gave no thought to maintaining this fleet and sacrificed it through war assets disposal at prices in some instances below the cost of scraping the barnacles from the hulls. It is difficult today to rebuild this merchant fleet, for at the present prevailing scale of wages Canadian shipbuilders and coastal shipping operators simply cannot meet competition from the more cheaply built and operated United Kingdom ships.
In view of this situation I would urge the government that steps be taken now to reserve the Canadian coastal shipping business

The Address-Mr. Crouse to ships built and registered in Canada. In doing this Canada would be following the example of other highly industrialized countries, and I refer especially to the United States. This action would benefit our many shipyards and shipbuilders, not only in my riding and in the Atlantic provinces but throughout the greater part of Canada.
I should like to say a few words also at this time, Mr. Speaker, about the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. This crown corporation has asked parliament to approve a total expenditure of $61,358,135 for the fiscal year ending March 31, 1959. This is an increase of $19,063,913 over last year, and in my opinion the time has arrived for a closer examination of the operations of this corporation which desires to spend so much of public funds.
I am not suggesting that there is any neglect, fraud or mishandling of public funds. However, I submit to you, sir, that the amounts presently required to produce strictly Canadian programs have become excessive when we consider that we are a nation of *only 17 million people. There is a limit 'beyond which conscience, or common sense, tells us we cannot go; and if we are to govern this nation on a sound, business-like basis, and continue to provide national radio and television service, I would earnestly suggest that this government place a maximum on expenditures of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.
I repeat that $61,358,135 is too much money, by any yardstick to be spent on the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. Some of their productions are very good. Others, however, though lavish in the extreme are neither educational nor entertaining. I believe the expenditure by this corporation of $42,294,222 in 1957-58 to be ample and would request that the government give serious consideration to the reduction of this corporation's expenditures.
At this time I should also like to impress upon this house a matter of great interest to all Nova Scotians, especially those of my riding. I refer to the tourist industry. We have on the south shore of Nova Scotia the finest scenery to be found anywhere in Canada.


John Whitney Pickersgill: Except in Newfoundland.


Lloyd Roseville Crouse: Good highways, excellent salt water bathing beaches at Sommerville, White Point and Crescent Beach to name but a few, the finest of lobster, scallops and other sea food served in cheerful surroundings, the finest of golf clubs and warm summer days and cool evenings offer to the tourist unexcelled opportunity for enjoyment. We are truly Canada's ocean playground, and the fact that the ferry Bluenose between

Yarmouth and Bar Harbor is filled to capacity each trip during the summer months is indicative of the number of Americans who have found this paradise of Nova Scotia and desire to visit and enjoy its beauty. There is ample evidence that the Bluenose alone is unable to cope with the demand for accommodation, and this summer a United States company is also planning to operate a steamship service between Boston and Yarmouth.
This is the age of travel, and in my opinion this demand from the travelling public could well be met by the construction of a second ferry which would provide a continuous service between Boston and Shelburne, Nova Scotia. I make the suggestion because there is no assurance that the United States company will provide its service beyond 1958, and I believe this expansion of tourist facilities could be considered on the basis of federal assistance programs provided in other fields of national development elsewhere in Canada. When making my maiden speech on November 13 last I expressed this opinion, and I wish to again impress upon the government the need of establishing this additional service along the south shore.
In closing I wish to state that the people of Queens-Lunenburg still have many unsolved problems. We have our share of unemployment and difficulty in marketing our pulpwood. Our shipyards are not as busy as in former years, and the prices for fish to our fishermen have not shown a noticeable increase in the last ten years. Our farmers share the same marketing problems experienced by farmers throughout other parts of Canada. However, our people were definitely influenced and impressed by the program of the Conservative party. They were convinced that here was a truly national policy which would take cognizance of the special problems of the maritimes and of the province of Nova Scotia. I believe that as these policies are implemented we will begin to grow and develop and continue to make in the future, as in the past, our contribution to the national economy of Canada.


Leon David Crestohl: Mr. Speaker, will the hon. gentleman permit a question?


Lloyd Roseville Crouse: With pleasure.


Leon David Crestohl: The hon. gentleman has postulated the theory that Canada's economic and unemployment problems are to a large extent due to the fact that we have lost the export market. I would like to know whether the hon. member believes that we should replace the export market we have lost by a home consumers' market, and if he thinks

that the government's policy of closing off immigration will tend to increase the home consumers' market.


An hon. Member:: You can make your speech later.


Mr. Habel:: Good question.


Erhart Regier: Mr. Speaker, may I along with so many other hon. members offer to you, to the Deputy Speaker and to the deputy chairman of committees my very best wishes and congratulations. The people of Canada, in the light of the composition of this house, and in the light of some rather difficult situations we encountered in the past and which we may face in the years ahead, are at this time looking forward with a great deal of confidence to our Speakers of the House of Commons for the maintenance of the traditional rights and privileges of every individual hon. member of this house.
My opening remarks in this debate are an expression of gratitude to the electors of my riding for once again choosing me as their representative. Unlike the hon. member for Charlotte I do not propose to say anything adverse about any of my opponents in the election campaign just completed, or indeed in any other election campaign. Perhaps it is because I come from British Columbia that I am able to say any opponent I have ever had in an election campaign, had he been elected to this house, would have served to the utmost of his or her ability. I always recognize that their intentions in offering their services were just as sincere as mine.
I feel gratitude to the people of my riding in a greater degree than ever before in view of the great emotional wave that seemed to sweep across the country on March 31. Indeed, many of us on April 1 had the feeling that a hurricane has passed over leaving only a few shorn lambs. Nevertheless the harsh realities of the economic uncertainties which are becoming evident in every aspect of our economic structure, including the harsh reality of unemployment, are like cold winds causing a new growth of wool to appear on our backs, and before very long I am sure the people of Canada will be convinced again that they have in this parliament opposition members who are so essential to good government.
I do not feel it desirable to rehash the election campaign just concluded. The decision has been made and I offer my congratulations to the Prime Minister on his accomplishment. Perhaps I should also extend congratulations to the advertising agency that was employed during the course of the campaign. However, for the sake of all of us I wish him and his government well.
The Address-Mr. Regier I believe it is vital that an opposition member always place the welfare of the Canadian people ahead of the welfare of his political group, regardless of how keenly he may feel that he and his political movement have all the answers. I think it may be fairly said of the C.C.F. movement that while adhering firmly over the years to their fundamental principles its members have always expressed acceptance of the ultimate wisdom of the people. The evolution of our society has for centuries rested on the people making progress by means of trial and error. The very essence of democratic socialism is a faith in man's ability-yes, even in his responsibility-to rule himself, and we propose that man ought to rule himself in the economic field as well. Therein lies the basic reason for our denunciation of the principle involved in the rule of either the dictates of capital or the dictates of a political machine.
Having said that may I say, Mr. Speaker, that we also oppose government by the dictation of an individual regardless of who he is, what he has accomplished or whatever ability he may have. At this point I should like, in all seriousness, to utter a word of warning. I do not believe that either personal or public interest is served by the tendency of the present Prime Minister to decide it all and to do it all. Inasmuch as some 23 Conservatives have now been admitted as members of Her Majesty's privy council, surely that ought to confer upon each of them a measure of responsibility and authority, and should mean a little more than merely being obliged to be the parrot or mouthpiece of someone else's thinking.
When the Prime Minister was in the opposition first as the member for Lake Centre and later as the member for Prince Albert he used to be very outspoken in his condemnation of what he regarded as the sins of the Liberal government, in that he claimed that they were violating the rights of parliament, the traditional forms and institutions, and were lacking in respect for the crown. I hold in my hand some of the Prime Minister's election campaign literature. I believe this particular piece was delivered to hundreds of thousands of homes throughout the country. Under the heading "Man of Action" is a picture of what is supposed to be "The Diefenbaker cabinet". It is of some significance that Her Majesty's privy council in Canada is now called the Diefenbaker cabinet. However, that may be understandable in the heat of an election campaign. But of even greater significance to me is the insult to the crown, in that in the centre of the picture of the Diefenbaker cabinet I see a

The Address-Mr. Regier photograph of His Excellency the Governor General, supposedly a member of that cabinet.
Senior members of parliament can well imagine what the former member for Lake Centre and Prince Albert, now the Prime Minister, would have said in the house had any other political party ever had the nerve to include the Governor General as a member of a particular cabinet. I know, Mr. Speaker, that according to the rules of the house the political leanings of the Governor General are not a subject of debate in the house. Therefore I cannot pursue the matter further at this time, beyond expressing the hope that I trust the Governor General will never become a member of anybody's cabinet, not even a member of the Diefenbaker cabinet.
The survival of our society, Mr. Speaker, without the continuation of the suicidal armaments race is, I believe, a subject of paramount importance to the Canadian people at the present time. There seems to be an air of utter frustration. We seem to be at a loss with respect to where to go from here. Those on each side of the iron curtain are devoting so much of their energies not to the promotion of life, not to the promotion of happiness, but to the building of ever more horrible weapons of mass destruction. We are doing this in the light of the lessons of history, which surely show that an armament race has always ended in war and disaster. The disaster that would be caused by a war at this time would be beyond compare in history.
We hate to think of the vast sums of money that we and our allies are devoting to the armament race. In fact when we consider the economies of some of our European allies, notably Italy and France, we begin to wonder whether we are not hurting them possibly even more than we are helping them, in that the armament race is forcing their economies to the verge of bankruptcy. The western world will find that its money has been very poorly invested indeed if in elections in Italy or France the people should elect communist governments. Our whole concept of western defence would then fall apart like a house of cards. In the opinion of many people we have reached a point where we ought to give this matter very serious consideration indeed.
Added to this, Mr. Speaker, are the warnings issued on many occasions by an ever growing number of leading world scientists about the danger of nuclear experiments and explosions, and the possibility exists that even now we are doing more injury to the human race by these experiments than any wa' has ever inflicted upon mankind.

The battle for the survival of our society is being waged on three fronts, the military preparedness phase, the economic phase and the psychological phase. We have apparently reached a stalemate in the armament race, since either side has enough nuclear weapons at its disposal to blow the whole world to pieces. Why they want to go on manufacturing any more I do not know, unless they have evil designs on other worlds. We are not sure which side is ahead in the armament race. However, on the economic and phycho-logical fronts we are becoming convinced that we are behind, that month by month we are losing the race.
We seem to be unwilling to engage in any kind of peaceful competition with the Soviet world. I submit that the reason we are unwilling to engage in peaceful competition with the Soviet world is that this would involve our government assuming a responsibility which we in this group feel it ought to assume, while those in office are unwilling to have the government involved in that responsibility. We contend that if we are sincere in our expressions of belief that free men are able under a freely elected government to offer more to the people than can be offered under a totalitarian government, we should be able to produce results for our people superior to those a totalitarian government is able to offer to its people. I often believe there may be a lack of basic faith in the ability of a free government in a free society to offer more to the people than can be offered by a totalitarian government.
Surely the solution is not a continuation of the already overly dangerous armament race. Surely the solution is a new kind of competition. By all means let us have competition with the Soviet world, but let it be competition to prove to ourselves and to the rest of the world that our type of society is in fact superior. Our finest line of defence, and I believe our only real line of defence, is to prove that we have more to offer, that we are able to do more.
There are others in the world who are not yet committed to our way of life or to the way of life of the totalitarian regimes. These hundreds of millions of others in the world are watching us. I am referring here to the psychological war. These people are watching what we do. They are watching what we are able to offer. I feel it is our lack of faith in our ability to do more than we are doing that is causing us to lose that psychological war.
When those who are watching realize that we had according to the latest dominion bureau of statistics bulletin of May 21, 506,000 people without work in April or 8.6 per cent

of our labour force, and another 501,000 or 8.4 per cent of our labour force who worked less than 35 hours a week, how will they feel? What will they think when they read, as I read, that the Minister of Finance on April 21 admitted in his speech in Hamilton, Ontario, that by the end of 1957 unemployment as a percentage of the labour force was higher than at any time in the post-war period. Under the influence of seasonal factors it continued to rise until about the middle of last month, March, he said.
I wish we could have had that type of realism, an admission of that situation from the Minister of Finance, before the last parliament was dissolved on February 1. At that time, however, we were told not to worry; everything would be all right. In fact, as late as March 12 the Prime Minister, speaking in Exhibition Gardens in Vancouver, thundered to the audience of thousands that despite the statistic-I am paraphrasing his words-"I can assure you we are past the peak". He demanded that the people of Canada have faith in his words. Yet at the end of April we have the Minister of Finance telling us that the Prime Minister was a little less than honest in insisting that the people take his word that we were past the peak.
I am not blaming this government alone for the conditions we have today. The immediate post-war period released a great pent-up demand for consumer goods. This demand resulted in a terrific expansion of our productive capacity in Canada, even at times at the cost of our social needs. We in this group were continually warning the government if necessary to limit this fantastic expansion of our productive capacity in order that our social needs might also be met. However, not much attention was paid to us, and there was this headlong expansion. We had this delayed consumer demand accompanied by the removal of price controls at far too early a date by governments that were willing to appease the selfish desires of those who saw huge profits available to them if they could satisfy these demands and charge all that the traffic would bear.
At that time we began to lose our foreign markets. We failed to extend sufficient credits overseas. We stubbornly refused to accept soft currency until we forced the soft currency nations of the free world to learn to get along without us. They have been doing very well by themselves. This is not the result of their desire but the result of our stubborn refusal to accept soft currency or to extend to them the helping hand which they needed so badly at that time. It is absolutely of our making that there is in existence what is known as the European
The Address-Mr. Regier common market. It was the United States and Canada who were primarily responsible for the countries of Europe knitting their economies more closely together and learning how to get along without Canadian products. We insisted on relying on the United States for our markets, failing to realize that the United States was a market for us only at such times as there was great expansion within that country and they had urgent need of our surplus production. We blandlj refused to do any business with many areas of the world. Even today we refuse to see one-fourth of the people of the world- naturally I refer to the people living in China-and to share responsibility for those in dire need.
We have refused to recognize the growing awareness of our standards of people in other parts of the world, or their desire to attain our standards of living. We refuse to recognize their knowledge that they do not have to continue living on the brink of starvation as their forefathers did for centuries. Once again I must express my appreciation of the honesty of the Minister of Finance. When he spoke in Waterloo on May 15 he made reference to our extended productivity. He said:
The net effect of all this has been that, between 1946 and 1956, productivity per man-year in the private sector of the economy has risen by nearly three per cent annually. The percentage has, of course, varied from year to year. Last year appears to have been somewhat out of line in this regard, but the long-run trend is nonetheless upward.
If it was 3 per cent per year for a ten-year period, that means an increase of upwards of 30 per cent in our productivity, according to the figures given by the minister. Then later on he said:
If account is taken of the increased population, per capita real income has risen by about 10 per cent since 1947, most of the rise occurring since 1950.
In other words, labour has raised its productivity by upwards of 30 per cent in a ten-year period, while the purchasing power of labour has been allowed to grow by only about 10 per cent. Karl Marx himself could not have made a finer analysis than the Minister of Finance did when he spoke in Waterloo. We rob our workers and farmers of their purchasing power by denying them the benefit of their increased productivity. This lost the domestic market for us. Yes, for a time we were able to carry on because we extended credit in the consumer field. The finance companies waxed rich. We offered goods with no downpayment. However, everything comes to an end, and the day has arrived when the average workingman owes so much he cannot add to his monthly payment burden. As a result we have a decline in his purchasing power.

The Address-Mr. Regier
Added to that we have had high interest rates charged by these companies and others which have robbed the people of purchasing power. We have had the growing taxation on homes and incomes, with no rehef over many years. We have had a shortchanging of the short-term small investor by huge corporations, in that they receive less than the corporation net earnings when corporations often keep over half the net earnings in the business to the benefit, I will admit, of the long-term investor but certainly at the expense of the short-term investor. This small investor is often supposed to be the real owner of Canada, although he is not.
There are many reasons that can be cited as the causes of our depression. However, no solution is being offered at the present time by the government in office. The government with its speech from the throne reminds me of the man with the inner tube. It is an old inner tube with many holes in it that have been patched over the years. All that our present Prime Minister had to offer in this election campaign, when the air was coming out of the inner tube at a dozen different places, was this. He simply had a bigger box of new patches than had the Liberals. In our opinion what is needed is a new inner tube, because the old inner tube has patch beside patch and our whole economic system is being kept alive by putting on more patches; and our speeches from the throne, with little patches here and little patches there, are therefore tending to grow longer and longer.
The only other remedy is that of deficit financing. I hope the government realizes the inflationary danger of deficit financing. Deficit financing at a time of deflation can serve a useful purpose indeed, but at a time when we have recession combined with inflation, deficit financing could wreak havoc to the economy of the country.
As to the Liberal amendment, we intend to support it; I am inclined to agree with it. I see nothing wrong with more trade. But I read carefully the speech of the Leader of the Opposition and I notice that he failed to offer one single way in which this government might increase its trade. The Liberal leader calls for increased trade but he does not say how it should be increased.
The whole system, Mr. Speaker, is rapidly breaking down. I find no less an authority for this than again the Minister of Finance. It is amazing how frank the Conservative government can become once it is firmly in the saddle. Some of us remember only too well how brutally frank the last Conservative government was in the years from 1930 to


1935. However, in Waterloo the Minister of Finance had this to say:
One of the charges which are levelled against free enterprise is that it admits of times of economic instability. There may, of course, be a grain of truth in this, . . .
Those are the words of the Minister of Finance, and it is our contention that there is a great deal more than a grain of truth in them. If it is only a grain it must be a mustard seed, indeed which is assuming alarming proportions.
We are often asked the question, "What would you do about unemployment?" I think part of the answer is in our subamendment. We realize that it is good for our country to increase international trade. However, we contend that the main market for the products of Canadian labour and Canadian farmers is right at home. It is for that reason that my house leader submitted his amendment to the Liberal amendment. Increased foreign trade is not enough. Our first responsibility is to our Canadian people. On the home front lies our major solution.
While recognizing the importance of trade with other countries, we have advocated that Canada be prepared to spend as much as 1 per cent of our gross national production in order to win friends for democracy throughout the world, and in order to enhance the prospect of Canadian trade as well. We have advocated the extension of credits, the acceptance in part payment at least of soft currency. I believe we should seriously attempt to align ourselves with the European common market.
I am greatly interested in the Liberal member's resolution on the order paper calling for free trade with the federation of the British West Indies. I note with a great deal of pleasure that the organized labour movement is doing much, through the international confederation of free trade unions, to raise living standards in other areas of the world to the end that the workers of foreign countries shall have an equally high standard of living compared with workers in Canada, and not be able to offer the unfair competition on world markets that is being offered. We have advocated export and import boards and an end to this farce of high tariffs and low tariffs, which to the people of Canada always means high tariffs in effect, regardless of what government is in office.
On the home front we have called for a national investment board so there shall be an even development of the Canadian economy, so that our social needs will be met along with the need to increase our productivity. We have asked for a curtailment of the activities of huge corporations. I see

no reason why we should not be reimposing an excess profits tax in Canada. I feel that no corporation in Canada should be allowed to earn more than 12 per cent on its net capital investment. We have hundreds of thousands of small independent enterprisers and businessmen who would be most happy indeed if they were able to earn 12 per cent per annum on their net investment.
We hear the argument made that they are not making this money. I was greatly interested in this release put out by the united steel workers of America. I have never yet heard anyone say their research department turned out fictitious figures. I believe they are reliable. I note that the five major steel companies of Canada in 1947 had a net income of $28,600,000, and that in 1956 this figure had grown to $142,300,000. In 1947 they received as net income 13.2 per cent of every sales dollar. In 1956 they received as net income 20.9 per cent of each and every sales dollar. These corporations are well able to afford the wages they are paying and in many cases they are able to afford a good deal more. Some of them are also able to afford a reduction in prices which the hon. member for Queens-Lunenburg mentioned as being necessary.
We call for a vastly expanded program of welfare measures, higher pensions for our retired civil servants, for our retired railroad men, retired members of the R.C.M.P. and a fairer deal for veterans. The government still has restored to the veterans only one-half of the buying power they have lost through inflation. We call for a national health insurance program.
I know the old song and story that you are going to bankrupt the country, that the country cannot afford these things. I was pleased to hear the hon. member for Resti-gouche-Madawaska call for higher family allowances the other day. I see, Mr. Speaker, that last year the people of Canada spent over $1,000 million on liquor. If they can spend $61 per capita per annum on liquor they can spend a little more than that on either education or health and welfare. I am absolutely unwilling to accept any argument that the Canadian economy cannot afford decent allowances for senior citizens, for our veterans, for our retired people and for those who are attempting to bring up families.
How long can we afford to operate in our country allowing each branch of industrial enterprise to organize in its own selfish interests without necessarily having any regard for the public welfare? We say the time has come when the people must use the instrument of government to plan their economic welfare. The situation in the world
The Address-Mr. M. Smith is grave indeed, and it affects all mankind. We must with determination resolve our course for our very survival. We have to prove to our people and to others that democracy is worth while. The highest appeals and platitudes will not survive the harsh, cold and cruel realities which dictate the actions of both capital and labour at the present time. If we have the courage to end the exploitation of man by man, if we are aware of our responsibilities and if we will have faith in ourselves and in our people, then the weapon of government will preserve the heritage of the past and may also be used as a mighty instrument for the building of a new society, a society that will make for peace in the world and will make health and happiness for the Canadian people a reality.


Mr. Murray Smith (Winnipeg North):: Mr. Speaker, may I begin by adding my congratulations to the many which Your Honour and your deputy have received. I should also like to congratulate my friends the hon. member for Quebec-Montmorency (Mr. La-freniere) and the hon. member for Yukon (Mr. Nielsen), who so capably moved and seconded the address in reply to the speech from the throne. I have the privilege of sharing my office space-although he says it is his office space-with the hon. member for Quebec-Montmorency, who is also acting as my French tutor, and be informs me that my French is so bad that I had better not attempt to use it today.
This is a memorable moment, but one that makes me, like most new members, nervous. It is a happy moment for me, yet at the same time to some extent it is a sad one, by reason of the fact that one of my best friends and one of the best friends of the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre (Mr. MacLean) did not live to see this day. He worked tirelessly for us during the election campaign in June and worked with us in succeeding months in establishing an organization for our future success. The members from Manitoba and the public of Manitoba will know the name Alf Francis when they hear it.
Not since 1921 has a Conservative member of parliament been able to bring greetings from the citizens of Winnipeg North to this house, and I trust that hon. members in the corner to my right will grasp the significance of this statement, and after relating it to certain statements by the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre (Mr. MacLean) will have a clearer picture of what might lie in the future.
With the indulgence of the house I would like very briefly to tell you, Mr. Speaker, about the constituency of Winnipeg North.
372	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. M. Smith It includes the north part of the city of Winnipeg as well as that part of Winnipeg known as Elmwood; it also includes the city of East Kildonan, a city of some 20,000 citizens, and West Kildonan, an area which is rapidly approaching the size of a city. This constituency includes Canadians of almost every racial background and religious belief; Germans, Ukrainians, Poles, Jews, Czechoslovakians, Anglo-Saxons and others work together in community projects, and at the same time each group maintains its own clubs and portrays its own cultural heritage. I can do no more than pledge my best efforts in representing these fine Canadians in this parliament.
Before I proceed I would like to refer to a couple of statements made by the hon. member for Bonavista-Twillingate who spoke yesterday afternoon. He mentioned that he thought most of the voters in Canada were blinded by the vision. I would like to assure him that such was not the case in Winnipeg North. Many voters in my constituency were not born in Canada, and it is quite likely that certain statements made by the former Liberal minister of citizenship and immigration had a great deal of influence in their voting.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


John Whitney Pickersgill: I am sure, Mr. Speaker, that the hon. member did not wish to misrepresent what I said. I suggested that the majority of members in this house had been blinded by the vision. I meant no reflection on the electors.


William Murray Smith: With regard to his comments on the cost of the campaign- and perhaps he will have a comment on this also-it is common knowledge that in 1957 the Liberals of Winnipeg North spent approximately $30,000 for the privilege of losing their deposit. This year we spent just over $4,000 to win.


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


William Murray Smith: It has been said that the speech from the throne is one of the best ever presented to this house, and I am certain that the citizens of Winnipeg North will heartily concur in this statement. Many of them will derive benefit from the extension of the unemployment insurance benefits, and many more will benefit from the increased funds available under the National Housing Act.
Many of the people in my constituency have been requesting a bill of rights, and the small businessmen will certainly be glad to hear of the small business section to be established within the administrative machinery of government. The opposition in


this house may say what it pleases, but many of the items contained in the speech from the throne are things which the people of Winnipeg North have wanted for some time, and they realized that the only way to get them was to put a Conservative government in power in Ottawa.
I would now like to heartily endorse what my hon. friend the member for Winnipeg North Centre advocated with regard to those persons who have physical disabilities and handicaps. His remarks in this regard may be found at page 222 of Hansard for May 19 last. I was very privileged to have several physically handicapped people on my campaign committee. I know they do not want charity; all they want is a chance to show that they can do as good a job as anyone else. I strongly urge this government, therefore, to consider employing a physically handicapped person in every employment office, whose duty it would be to find jobs for others who are physically handicapped.
During the election campaign prior to June 10, a campaign in which as a newcomer my committee firmly entrenched me in third place, just a mere 13,500 votes behind the winner, I found that many people in Winnipeg North were keenly interested in the field of education.
In November last, when the Soviet union successfully launched two earth satellites, this interest increased tremendously, as it did, I am sure, in the whole world. This interest has not yet subsided in Winnipeg North, for it was one of the main subjects I encountered during the election campaign. Therefore as the representative of some 60,000 electors, the majority of whom are interested in education, and as a member of parliament well under 30 years of age and hence not long out of university, I feel I should speak for a few moments on the subject of education.
I do not propose to give advice to educators, for one of my former professors occupies a seat on the other government side of the house, nor do I propose to give advice to students. But I do propose to make a few suggestions to the government with regard to this matter. I have observed that a few hon. members have spoken on this important subject, and I trust that the opinions of others will be forthcoming either during this debate or on another occasion.
In order to realize the importance of education in our society today, one needs only to look at the tremendous and almost unbelievable advances which have been made in the last few years in one small part of this field, namely the field of science. Man, through his unquenchable thirst for knowledge, has brought the threshold of space before us. He

has brought it together with such exciting and, as yet, almost incomprehensible ideas as space travel which are only a moment away in this eternity of time. He has introduced, too, the shattering prospect of a global nuclear war which could result in the extermination of all forms of life from the earth or the obliteration of our planet from the universe. A vast amount of knowledge and research has been required to bring us this far, and an even greater amount will be required to take us further.
What are other governments of the world doing about education? First let us look at the U.S.S.R., the power which at the moment appears to lead the world in certain technological aspects and which, therefore, must lead the world in education in those aspects. In Russia education is still controlled by the government. It is regimented education. I do not propose for one moment that this government or any provincial government should tell our youth what to learn and how to learn it, but it is interesting to compare education in the U.S.S.R. with education in other countries. Indeed, the government of the United States is already doing this. President Eisenhower has made several telecasts on this matter, telecasts that were carried in Canada. Also, the Prudential Insurance Company produced a lengthy program entitled, "Where Do We Stand?", which compared at length the two educational systems together with the curricula and results.
Periodicals are also making comparisons. I hold in my hand a number of publications containing articles comparing or dealing with the two systems. First is an article in the December 6, 1957 edition of V.S. News and World Report. It is entitled "A Size-Up of What's Wrong With the American Schools" and is written by Rear Admiral H. H. Rick-over, of the United States navy. The second is an article entitled "Education in the U.S.S.R.", which appears in the January, 1958 edition of School Life, published by the United States government. The third publication, The Reporter, is a New York publication and I refer to a contribution in the February 20, 1958 edition in which there are two articles: first, "Are Soviet Schools Better Than Ours?" and second, "A Scientist's Impressions of Russian Research". The fourth publication is the March, 1958 edition of Reader's Digest, which contains an article entitled, "Russia Rings the School Bell", which is condensed from "Inside Russia Today", written by John Gunther. Life magazine for March 24, 1958 contains "a vital new series", as they call it, entitled "Crisis In Education" which contains exclusive pictures of a Russian schoolboy and his United States counterpart.
The Address-Mr. M. Smith
To return, Mr. Speaker, to the book entitled "Education in the U.S.S.R.", this book was published in 1957 by the United States government and is a complete study of Soviet education up to the time of the Soviet economical reorganization initiated in May, 1957. I should like to place certain parts of this work on the record to show the details into which the study goes. At page 67 the study deals with "Curriculum". Paragraph 4 on that page reads as follows:
Whereas the Soviet students graduating from secondary schools in June, 1955 had taken courses in physics for five years, astronomy for one year, chemistry for four years, biology for five years and mathematics including arithmetic, algebra, geometry, and trigonometry, for 10 years, less than a third of the American high school graduates had taken a year of chemistry, about a fourth had had a year of physics, and less than a seventh had taken advanced mathematics.
At page 74 the second paragraph, under the heading of "Arithmetic and Mathematics", reads as follows:
The arithmetic cycle is completed with grade V, which includes fractions, decimals, percentages and proportions. Slide rules and arithmometers are introduced at this time. Algebra and geometry begin in grade VI, continue in grade VII, and are studied in some detail in subsequent grades.
The next paragraph reads as follows:
Mathematics courses continue with algebra and geometry through grade X, and with trigonometry and an introduction to calculus in grades IX and X.
At page 81 under the heading "Physics", the first paragraph reads as follows:
Physics, introduced in grade VI, relates to the rudiments of mechanics and hydrodynamics. In grade VII the branches dealing with heat, light and electricity are introduced. The teaching of physics includes demonstration and experimentation.
The next paragraph reads as follows:
Physics courses continue with a more detailed and systematic study of mechanics-kinematics, dynamics and statics-heat, light and electricity in grade VIII; molecular physics and heat in grade IX; and electricity, optics and sound or aerodynamics in grade X. The amount of required laboratory work is considerably increased.
On page 82 under the heading "Chemistry", we find the following:
Chemistry is started in grade VII, with a short outline of the main chemical conceptions-substances, elements, atomic-molecular structure, oxides, salts, laws of weight preservation, plus a study of oxygen, hydrogen, air and water. Demonstration and experimentation accompany the course. A systematic presentation of inorganic chemistry is required in grades VIII and IX, and an introduction to organic chemistry in grade X.
On page 89 under the heading "Homework", we find:
In 1952 a special decree, was issued setting maximum limits for the amount of homework a Soviet pupil might be assigned as follows: for pupils in grade I, net more than one hour a day; grade II, between one and one and one-half hours; in grades III and IV, up to two hours; in grades V and VI,
374	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. M. Smith from two to three hours; in grade VII, from two and one-half to three and one-half hours; and in grades VIII to X, from three to four hours a day.
The study deals also with such questions as schools tor adults, schools tor working youth, evening schools tor rural youth, schools tor the mentally retarded, blind, deaf or hard of hearing, physical rehabilitation, schools for the exceptionally bright, schools for the artistically gifted, and military and naval schools. It also goes into details on extracurricular work and activities, vocational training, semi-professional training, teacher training, and so on.
I would strongly urge each hon. member of this house who is interested in education to read this publication and the articles I have mentioned. I do not for a moment suggest that we in Canada should follow the system which is now being used in the Soviet union, but it is my belief that the government of this country could do more for education than it is doing at present. As a matter of fact, educational activity in Russia may be beneficial to the whole world, for once people learn to think it is difficult to prevent them from going further. It is quite possible that the processes in operation in Russia will produce in time a democratic government in that country.
I realize that education is primarily a provincial matter, but as I have suggested I believe the federal government can do more for education than it has done in the past. I suggest that the government set up a committee on education. The committee could be a cabinet committee or it could be a committee in the Department of National Health and Welfare. It could even be a committee similar to the one to be set up with regard to small business.
This committee would not in any way interfere with provincial jurisdiction over education; I want to make that quite clear. I would suggest, however, that it could perform some of the following services. It could act as an information centre and do unlimited research in the field of education. It could investigate and report on education in each province of Canada and in some other countries of the world, including the United States or Russia. It could make public its findings and the facts it gleaned from its investigations. Those publications could be made available to the public at large and especially to the ministers of education in the various provinces.
It could be a committee that could be approached by universities with regarding to seeking financial aid. It could be a committee approachable by students when seeking tax cuts or relief from the payment of unemployment insurance. It could seek the


co-operation of the press and the home. I believe the press can play a highly important part in the field of education. If the press devoted as much coverage to the success of students who graduate from universities as it does to students who participate in sports we might find an increased incentive on the part of our students in the universities, with the result that we would produce more trained scientists than we are now producing.
Education is becoming more complicated and costly every day. One could go on to discuss the cost of building schools, the cost of equipment for laboratories, the salaries of professors and so on. But one must also realize that education is much more than what I have mentioned here. I have dwelt primarily on scientific study, but we could devote much time to a discussion of the arts and humanities. I do not pretend to be an expert on education, but in our democracy even the man in the street has a right to express his views, and for a member of this house it is his duty.
I sincerely hope that I have succeeded today in igniting a spark that will be fanned by the opinions of others until together we will have succeeded in lighting a fire that will brighten the hopes and ambitions of everyone who seeks to better himself in any way whatsoever by that process which we call education.


Mr. C. R. Granger (Grand Falls-White Bay-Labrador):: Mr. Speaker, I should imagine that every new member approaches the duty of delivering his first speech in this chamber with timidity and uneasiness. Unless he were a complete extrovert he would have a feeling of reserve and modesty when he remembers how many men of unquestioned ability and experience have been in this house for many years. But I take comfort from the thought that experience and wisdom almost invariably breed tolerance, and I have no doubt but that I will receive a sympathetic and even kindly hearing, and if I should unwittingly essay to be profound I am sure I will be forgiven even if there are some inward smiles.
I wish to join with those hon. members who have extended to the Speaker congratulations on his appointment to his high office. I share with them the conviction that he will discharge his duties with fairness and add to the dignity of this chamber. I would also like to congratulate the hon. member for Queens-Lunenburg (Mr. Crouse) on his speech. I agreed with much of what he said, particularly his remarks concerning fish markets and the West Indies.
I would now like to say a word about the great riding which I have the honour to

represent. To do so is natural, I suppose, but in this case my remarks will be all the more effective because I speak with sincere pride in praise of my riding. Not only is it one of the largest ridings in our nation, but in terms of importance and variety it is one of the greatest areas in North America. From Grand Falls and Gander in the south, all through the district of Green Bay, White Bay south, White Bay north, Labrador south and Labrador north it stretches on to cape Chidley in the far north. It embraces the industrial centres of Newfoundland with their great pulp and paper industry and woods operations, the famous international airport at Gander, the traditional fisheries of Green Bay, White Bay and the Labrador coast, the great military airport at Goose, one of the great bastions of western defence, and the mines and timber and untouched resources and undreamed of wealth of the new and magic world of Labrador.
It is a great riding, larger than many nations, almost as big as some continents, with some of the finest people who can be found anywhere, citizens of whom Canada may be proud. A tradition in which courage and toil are commonplace have bred a race of people whose loyalty and dependability are beyond question. I think it is only right that I should mention the industries which are vital to these people, and some of the things they require.
Most of the people in my riding are fishermen and loggers; and the fisheries, the traditional industry of Newfoundland, are still of paramount importance. Up to the time of confederation the Newfoundland fisheries continued in much the same manner as they had for hundreds of years. It is true that since John Cabot's discovery of Newfoundland in 1497 the cod trap and the gasoline marine engine were invented, but by and large the system remained virtually unchanged. It is also true that the fresh fish business enjoyed a vigorous start prior to confederation, but this new industry was due for tremendous expansion at the same time that the salt cod fishery was to undergo a revolution, for after confederation the fisheries of Newfoundland underwent a great change.
This was due to three factors. I give them not necessarily in the order of importance, for no one can assess which made the greatest contribution, but with confederation several things happened to this ancient industry. In the first instance the return of democratic rule in Newfoundland, as it does everywhere in the world, released energies which heretofore had been restricted, and the combination of self-government, free enterprise and competitive operation opened new vistas for
The Address-Mr. Granger merchants and fishermen alike. Then the federal Department of Fisheries brought to the fisheries of Newfoundland its experience, technical knowledge and the funds with which to experiment, which gave us the laboratory plant always so badly needed, while the provincial government under Premier Smallwood embarked on a wise and bold policy of supplying financial assistance to firms which desired to expand. The result was an expansion in the industrialization of fisheries in eight years unequalled during the preceding four and one-half centuries.
However, unfortunately for the people of my riding the expansion has been largely to the south, its northern position thus far having precluded it from enjoying much of the benefits of modern progress, although some progress has been made.
It may be that this is a geographical handicap and a difficult one to overcome but simply because it is difficult is no reason for it to be forgotten.
One of the great natural resources of Canada is fishing and the waters of northern Newfoundland and Labrador are rich with fish. When John Cabot sailed west he was after gold and precious jewels. He did not find them in Newfoundland but he did find waters teeming with fish which proved to be better than precious metals. I know that Canada has undeveloped resources other than those in the waters of Newfoundland and I realize that these other resources require attention, but I do think it wrong that any great resource should be neglected and despite all that has been done we have merely touched the fringes.
If Canada is to be really great all of her resources must be developed, but the inroads made in our fishery markets by foreign competitors and the multitude of craft flying strange flags in Newfoundland waters today make me wonder if, while gaining wealth on the one hand we are not throwing it away with the other. I am not suggesting that the stranger be deprived of fishing rights but I am suggesting that our way of doing business be so improved as to make it economically undesirable for him to do so. I therefore ask that more serious attention than ever be given to the development, expansion and exploitation of the wealth which lies in Canadian waters. The oldest part of our heritage has been one of our richest and the fishing business can be improved so that it will provide an attractive vocation for our people and so that the fishermen will be not only a valuable man but a well paid man.
One immediate need in northern Newfoundland is more adequate bait supplies, more bait depots and a better distribution

The Address-Mr. Granger agency. This is something that can be done immediately and I hope that the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. MacLean) has plans in this direction for early implementation.
I have referred earlier to the two great airports which are in my riding. Goose is another military airport and is used extensively by the United States air force as well as the R.C.A.F. There is little that I should say here except to make one or two observations. First, I should like to see a higher proportion of Newfoundlanders employed at Goose airport, particularly on construction work. Second, I think it only fair that the town of Happy Valley, where so many of our permanent workers at Goose Bay live, should be allowed to obtain its electricity from the R.C.A.F. plant at Goose. A public wharf at Happy Valley is badly needed but I shall speak of that and other marine works at a more appropriate time. Suffice it to say here that Goose is one of the most important military airports in the western world. Few either know or realize its value but it is one of the great defence fortresses of this age.
Gander, of course, is one of the famous airports of the world. In this air age it is the great gateway to Canada. It is the only part of Canada which millions of visitors ever see. In this rapidly moving twentieth century it already has a long history. The history of Gander is the history of modern aviation. Very few of us have ever had the proper appreciation of Gander's value to the pioneering period of yesterday or its great commercial value today. I think I will be forgiven if I should stress a little here just how important Gander was both to the world of aviation and to Canada in particular. Prior to confederation, at the international conferences in Geneva when routes and landing stations on both sides of the Atlantic were being arranged, it was toward the Newfoundland representative that most attention was directed because Newfoundland, having both Gander and Goose, held the key to the whole over-all strategy. Newfoundland's position was extremely important and her bargaining power was tremendous.
Prior to confederation I believe Canada's representatives at those international conferences attended as observers only. I believe in those days Canada had been unable to receive permission to fly commercial planes over United States territory which would sit down and pick up passengers in competition with United States planes. However, confederation gave Canada the key that unlocked all these doors. The acquisition of Gander by Canada increased her bargaining power so that she was able to negotiate from strength and from then on she was quickly

able to obtain landing rights in almost every part of the world except Russia. Canada was suddenly transformed into one of the great forces in modern commercial aviation. The impact of this change in Canadian civil air power must have had a tremendous economic effect, the results of which must have been very favourable to the whole Canadian economy. Certainly with Canadian planes carrying the Canadian flag into far distant places Canada was receiving the best and most potent advertising possible.
In Gander today a modern town has grown up with new schools, churches, supermarkets and all the trappings of progressive, modern life. Every so often one hears a murmur as to what is the future of Gander. This is something that I shall ask the Minister of Transport (Mr. Hees) to clarify at a later date, but as I see it the future of Gander is secure. It is true that modern, high speed, deluxe transports carry passengers direct from New York to London or Paris or wherever they are going but these represent only a fraction of the growing business of flying.
The great airliners of yesterday are in the tourist trade today. Older planes are carrying freight and the growth of low cost passenger service and air freight is phenomenal. These planes which carry large loads of passengers and freight need to make frequent stops for refueling and all indications are that in the foreseeable future there will be more planes land at Gander instead of fewer and installations at Gander will have to be extended instead of being restricted.
I may say it is particularly gratifying to all Canadians to know that the new terminal at Gander started by the Liberal government will be one of the best in North America. As I stated above, Gander is the only part of Canada which many thousands of people see every year. These people will judge Canada by what they see at Gander. To them Gander is Canada and as Canadians we should be satisfied with nothing but the best at Gander so that we shall advertise ourselves properly. Gander is so important today and, indeed, the Department of Transport has such a heavy interest in Newfoundland that I strongly recommend that it be made a separate region and not be handicapped by being a part of another region and having to do business through Moncton with all the delays which inevitably result from that situation.
Also, Gander badly needs a hotel and the hotel should be built close to the terminal so that passengers arriving fatigued from their trip should not suffer the further exhausting effort of travelling half way around the airport to their quarters. Indeed, they should be able to walk to the hotel.

During the latter part of February and the middle part of March a number of distinguished Canadians visited Newfoundland and gave some attention to the part of Newfoundland which was to become my riding. I fear at the time I did not welcome these attentions with unalloyed pleasure nor was my attitude towards their presence what one would expect from a hospitable Newfoundlander. However, looking back to these visits from the perspective of today I am glad that the Prime Minister (Mr. Diefenbaker) and the Minister of Transport know at first hand what some of the problems at Gander are, and I can assure them that I will welcome their continued attention to them in the future. If I may, I would solicit across the chasm of political differences the interest in these problems of the minister from Newfoundland.
As I said, one need at Gander is a hotel and the other is a hospital. In this connection I should like to read from an editorial that appeared in the News of December 12, 1957 which, under the heading "Facilities at Gander", had this to say:
So far as we can gather, the Minister of Transport disclaims all responsibility for the removal of the hospital and the provision of new hotel accommodation at Gander. These things, it is said, are not obligations of the department.
In ordinary circumstances, that may be true. But Gander is a special case. It is a Department of Transport town whose whole life is centred around a Department of Transport airport. In the circumstances, responsibility for the provision of essential facilities cannot be easily disclaimed.
Take, for example, the hospital which must hold thirty beds available for the use of the department in any emergency. That itself indicates a direct interest of the transport department in the hospital facilities at Gander.
I may say that the leader of our party pledged the support of our party for financial assistance to the Gander hospital. I would hope the government would come to see the justice of that proposal.
I should like to mention now the desirability of providing television facilities for central Newfoundland. At the present time a microwave line is being built across Newfoundland which will bring live television to St. John's and adjacent areas. This microwave line passes right through central Newfoundland. Certainly, arrangements can be made under which the thickly populated areas of central Newfoundland can be given television service, particularly in view of the fact the microwave lines carrying live television programs pass through this area. It may be that a station built on the height of land between Bishop's Falls and Glenwood might be able to serve an area extending from Buchans in the interior and Lewisporte and vicinity in Notre Dame bay. Included in this
The Address-Mr. Granger area, of course, are such places as Badger, Windsor, Norris Arm, Peter's Arm, Botwood and Point Leamington. However, that is a question for the engineers to settle and if one outlet cannot do the job I think two should be considered. In any event, it is unthinkable to ask an area such as central Newfoundland to do without television facilities in this modern age, particularly when television circuits are passing right through the area. It is like putting a telephone line through a town and denying the inhabitants the use of it.
Mr. Speaker, I have just one or two more subjects to mention before closing, and one has to do with the administration of unemployment insurance for fishermen. Unemployment insurance for fishermen was more than just a boom economically. Its establishment by the Liberal government was the righting of a moral wrong because while the labourers who processed the fish were protected, the men who caught the fish were not. It also did much to preserve the fisheries. The granting of this protection encouraged fishermen to remain at or return to their vocation, and this probably saved it from extinction. However, the actual implementation of unemployment insurance for fishermen has not been too satisfactory. In practically every fishing village I have visited there were many instances of fishermen who qualified for unemployment insurance but were not receiving it. Quite frequently this was the result of misunderstandings, forms not properly filled out, or errors which had to be corrected at the headquarters in Moncton. It is the firm belief of many people that the Department of Labour should employ fieldmen who would travel from place to place assisting fishermen and labourers with their claims and adjusting those miscarriages of justice which too frequently have deprived a producer of getting what was legally his.
It is felt as well that too much time is lost and too much embarrassment is caused by offices in Newfoundland having to refer doubtful claims to remote headquarters. The opinion of the people is that Newfoundland itself should be constituted a region for unemployment insurance purposes. The addition of fieldmen would do much to offset the embarrassing mistakes which are universal.
In concluding, I should like to mention briefly the great northland of which Labrador forms an important part. I am pleased to know the government has in mind the development of the north, and I should like to remind them that Labrador is one of the oldest known and most important parts of Canada's great north. The great iron ore developments, and the water power on the
378	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. Macquarrie Hamilton river as well as the tremendous forests to which so much attention is now being directed, all indicate that Labrador is becoming a princely part of Canada's heritage. I should like to read one or two quotations, and the first is by Lord Strath-cona:
It has been said that power, that empire came from the north. Northern people have always stood for courage and unconquerability They have the muscle, the wholesomeness of life, the strength of will.
The second is from the explorer Stefans-son:
We should not regard the Eskimos as foreigners but as friends. They are your fellow citizens. Their future is bound up in our future. If Canada is but a thin southern strip across which plies a shuttle railway we shall have no remarkable future.
Labrador is indeed a great part of Canada and when we realize its vastness and its untouched riches we begin to appreciate just how young a nation we are in development, and just how great a nation we are becoming. We realize what a greater nation Canada will be in the days of our children's children, when the power and fame of a mature Canada will make an even greater contribution to the material wealth, the peace and goodwill of the brave days of the future.


Mr. Heath Macquarrie (Queens):: Mr. Speaker, I happily conform to tradition, and I do so with all sincerity, in congratulating the mover (Mr. Lafreniere) and seconder (Mr. Nielsen) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne. They have followed the high standard which down through the years has been maintained in this parliament. I should like also to congratulate you, Mr. Speaker, upon again being chosen as the first commoner. During the throne speech debate of the 23rd parliament I quoted Sir Robert Borden's criterion that a Speaker must be impartial, firm, courteous, and above all patient. I think our Speaker has displayed all those qualities, plus the saving grace of good humour.
I am happy, too, in the choice of a Deputy Speaker because he comes from a distinguished line in the political field. In the 12th parliament his father seconded the address and made such a fine address that the prime minister of that day, Mr. Borden, declared it to be notable and eloquent. His father then went on to occupy the deputy speaker's chair and later the Speaker's chair. It is gratifying to see the hon. member for Spa-dina (Mr. Rea), my friend and counsellor, in the place which he occupies and discharging the duties which he does so well. I might say, in my present congratulatory mood, a word about an hon. member who
[Mr. Granger.)

spoke just a short while ago. I refer to the hon. member for Winnipeg North (Mr. Smith). Some time ago he was a student of mine when I walked the halls of learning at Brandon college rather than the legislative halls. I believe, sir, you will agree that if I did nothing else, I made a very good job of training and educating him. We take on a new relationship now. Once I was the professor and he the student. Now, he is the freshman and I am the sophomore.
I was quite interested in the remarks made by the hon. member for Bonavista-Twillingate (Mr. Pickersgill) yesterday. It seemed to me he divided his time between two roles. At one time he was the politician and at other times he seemed to be the professor. I may say that I preferred him in the professorial role. I would not for a moment suggest that he was a better professor than a politician because it might be a suggestion which could rebound on me some day.
I was interested in his remarks about the development of Canada's political history. I was interested in what he said and I was impressed by the things which he was able to leave unsaid. I was quite surprised that he could speak even as long as he did speak about Canadian autonomy and nationhood without mentioning the name of the great architect of Canadian nationhood, namely Sir Robert Borden. I noted his comment about the mover (Mr. Lafreniere) and the seconder (Mr. Nielsen) of the address and his suggestion that they have the illusion that there were great gaps in Canadian history, that nothing was accomplished during the days when other than a Conservative administration was at the helm. Later on I noted that he spoke of the parable of the 99 out of 100 sheep. As I listened to him I too was reminded of a parable, namely the one about the mote and the beam. I was interested in his nautical metaphors. I followed him through the various passages, which the ship of state took. Perhaps he has reached that stage of nostalgia about which Lowell spoke when he said:
From the days of the first grandfather, everybody has remembered a golden age behind him.
Perhaps the hon. member looks back to the days when he himself was an officer of the ship of state which went through and passed the reefs which he so well recalled yesterday.
I think, however, that it is an extremely healthy sign that members of this house have devoted some time to contemplation of and reflection on Canada's past. It seems to me that it is only recently that many Canadians have awakened to the recognition of the fact that we do indeed have a past in this country. I think it is surely a healthy sign and I have

been greatly interested in the comments which have been made in this throne speech debate. On occasion I expected to hear more about a certain recent date in the past, namely the date of March 31. On occasion some comments were made about it but often it was passed over. On reflection, I think it is perhaps just as well. The verdict has been given. I think the members of the winning party are to be congratulated. The fact that they have restrained completely any tendency to gloat over or to boast about what has been done and what has taken place on the electoral level is to be commended. There has been no castigating and no crying "Aha" over what has happened. Macaulay once pointed to Peel in the British house and said:
There you sit doing penance for the disingenuousness of years.
That accusation, of course, could never be made against the party which once sat on the treasury benches of this country.
In reflecting upon the election, I find myself in disagreement with the hon. member for Bonavista-Twillingate. I do not think that this past election could be described as a Madison Avenue election. I am rather inclined to think that it is one of the most serious elections which this country has held. I think it has given on the part of the Canadian people a display of intelligent calculation and analysis that is quite unique. I do not say that while projecting my thoughts along to the result. I think there was a particular reason why this election was a serious exercise of intelligence on the part of the Canadian people. The reason was that it was a quite unique experience.
On March 31 the voters of Canada had the opportunity to compare and to contrast two known alternatives. No voter was so young that he could not recall vividly what had been done and what had not been done by the Liberal party in its many years in office. Hence there was no necessity for appraising new panaceas, platforms and programs. The mere exercise of memory was sufficient. The judgment was made and of course we know the result.
I also think that there is developing on the parliamentary scene a seriousness of purpose and a realization of the responsibilities that go with power. This is reflected in the speech from the throne; and of all that document contains, the most important and the most imperishable will be those things which reveal the government's determination to avoid that unhappy state when power turns to tyranny and authority becomes arrogance. I think the Canadian people can be thankful that such determination is there and will be maintained. In days past we can remember that
The Address-Mr. Macquarrie such was not the case. I had an experience similar to that recalled by the hon. member for St. Lawrence-St. George the other day, when we observed the use and the abuse of power in this Canadian parliament. I am sure that we all agree, regardless of our party label, that such should never occur again in this country.
It is a stimulating experience to hear the speeches of hon. members from all parts of this country. I have listened with great interest to the hon. members as they described the glories and virtues of their constituencies. Of course, it is easy to paint such pictures about a great and growing country like Canada. This nation has before it a wonderful future, marked by progress and prosperity within its borders and an increasing importance and significance in the affairs of the world. But the healthy economic development of Canada requires a degree of prosperity in all parts of the country. It is in the national interest to assure that no region in the country falls noticeably below the over-all level of prosperity.
It is possible that one may now anticipate one of these ancient instruments of Canadian politics, namely a speech on maritime rights, that substance on which all maritime politicians are weaned and nurtured. As Canada's history has progressed, the maritime provinces have fallen behind. Sometimes we maritimers-and we are sentimental people at all times-are accused of reminiscing too much about the good old days. Sometimes it is said that a maritimer talks about confederation as if it were an event that had taken place the day before yesterday. But our area once had great prosperity. While perhaps it is easy to confuse coincidence with cause, it is nevertheless true that in economic terms there has been a decline since the time of confederation. This is a theme of great interest to us all.
But I happen to represent the province in which confederation was born. In that great city which is in the riding which I represent along with my senior colleague, the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. MacLean), namely the city of Charlottetown, confederation was born in 1864. But during the years after that great ideal was put into actuality, confederation seemed to move westward from the land of its birth: "westward the course of empire ever stayed". The hinterland of the old Canadian provinces was opened up. Then the march across the prairies began under the distinguished and inspired leadership of the founder of the Conservative party and its great exten-tion was magnificent for Canada, but the gulf between the rest of Canada and the maritimes widened.

The Address-Mr. Macquarrie
The concentration of wealth and population in the central provinces, adverse tariff policies, inadequate and costly transportation, have added to the burdens and increased the disparity. There resulted a further relative depression in the maritime provinces. Our people-among the finest in the land-found it necessary to leave for other parts of Canada and for the United States. Statistics are never popular, but there is one which is so significant that I must ask the forbearance of this house in order to quote it. In the year 1881 the population of Prince Eward Island was 108,900 people. At the same time the population of British Columbia was 49,459. Today our population has suffered an actual decline and there are less than 100,000 people in my province, while in British Columbia there are well over 1,000,000 people. In that simple statistic there is a revelation.
During the years that have passed the people of the maritime area have asked the question: "Are the maritime provinces to become a permanently depressed area; are they only to be a quaint and picturesque community with hospitable and charming people, so well beloved of the tourist, but to lose their rightful place in the modern economic life of Canada?" There was a danger that along with the economic depression there might develop something far more serious-a mental depression among the people of the area.
Happily our outlook is better today. There is a new spirit abroad in the old provinces by the sea. A new feeling of hope, a new sense of purpose and direction are abroad. As the hon. member for Charlotte (Mr. Stewart) mentioned a while ago, this is evidenced by the thinking which found expression at the Atlantic provinces' economic council and was further revealed in the Atlantic premiers' conference. The vigour and vision of these two great maritime leaders, Premier Stanfield and Premier Flemming, have served as a source of stimulation and challenge to all of us. It has been said many times that the administrative costs of four separate governments are very high in the maritimes and indeed have been called simply ridiculous, but there is no possibility of the four little provinces in the Atlantic region cheerfully yielding their identity. They will remain provinces and they will remain distinct, but while they retain their identity there is no reason why they cannot further their co-operative efforts and it is in that spirit that the new developments in the maritimes are progressing.
We all welcome the admission of a new neighbour, Newfoundland. We in Prince Edward Island were particularly happy


because we have surplus of the finest agricultural products and we welcome Newfoundland because there is no one we would more like to have purchase our products. I believe that provincial governments and other groups should stimulate trade between Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland, and I am thoroughly convinced that the possibilities have not been sufficiently tapped or developed.
While self-help is important and this is being developed, the assistance and the initiative of the central government is essential. Herein lies the explanation of both the economic and the political changes in the maritime area in recent months. As I have said, confederation was born in my province but through the years the centre of gravity has moved westward, leaving the maritimes in the periphery of prosperity. How interesting it is that at this historic stage in our development out of the west should come a national leader who saw the vision and took the steps to redress that balance which had left us to one side.
I say the steps he took were in the national interest. Canada is immeasurably stronger today in every way as the result of what this government did in its first few months in office. The Atlantic provinces' adjustment acts, the Beechwood project, the aid to thermal power development and the rest, these brought new hope to our area. Prince Edward Island gained a grant of $2J million. We are very simple and unsophisticated people down there, and none of us will ever say, "What's a million?" What that million meant to us was one-quarter of our total budget and it was the largest single grant which ever came to our province from the federal treasury.
I would like to say that nothing will ever give me a greater sense of pride than to have belonged to the parliament, in a very humble capacity, which in a short time did so much for my province and the Atlantic provinces in general, who have for so long cried out and received not the answer they sought.
This explains why the maritime provinces gave their support wholeheartedly and unreservedly to the man who had sufficient breadth of vision to realize that in the interests of all of Canada this long-neglected region must be given immediate, urgent and ample attention and, if I may be a bit immodest, I cannot help mentioning that my province led the way and that in the election of June 10 Prince Edward Island formed a 100 per cent club of supporters of the Diefen-baker government. We were very happy that our neighbour Nova Scotia, that Alberta and Manitoba also joined this club, but we claim the right to reserve the title charter member.


An hon. Member:: Newfoundland next.


Heath Nelson Macquarrie: Newfoundland will be heartily welcomed.
I would not be a true maritimer, nor would I be a good representative of the historic constituency of Queens if I left the impression with you, Mr. Speaker, or with this chamber or with the government that our needs had all been met and that in the maritimes milk and honey flow gushingly. That is still not the case. We appreciate what has been done; it has given us new incentive, but in many ways it is just the beginning. There are many needs which must be met and I was very impressed in this debate with the way in which members from the maritimes have set forth the needs of the people in that area.
There have been many remarks about the fishing industry, the second industry in the province of Prince Edward Island. We feel confident about the future of the fishing industry because my long-time friend and colleague, the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. MacLean) is assuming responsibility for that important part of our economy. In Prince Edward Island, however, and in the maritimes generally, the question of transportation is of the utmost importance. We must have better transportation facilities so that the products of our farms and the sea may be moved more expeditiously to the markets we have developed.
Down through the years the men who have preceded me have called the attention of the house and of the government to the inadequacy of the transportation between our island province and the rest of Canada.
When Prince Edward Island joined confederation in 1873, part of the understanding was that continous communication should be maintained between New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island. As the hon. member for Westmorland (Mr. Creaghan) pointed out the other day, we do not at the present time have adequate transportation, and the people of my province rejoice that again in this respect the new government moved rapidly. There is going on today an exhaustive survey of the possibility, in all its aspects, of building the causeway which has been projected between Borden, Prince Edward Island, and Cape Jourmain in New Brunswick. We look forward to the day when history will repeat itself and when a Conservative government will establish the most up-to-date transportation link between our historic province and the rest of Canada. It was the government of Sir Robert Borden which gave us our first car ferry, and we look forward to the time when another Conservative government will make possible this causeway
The Address-Mr. Macquarrie
which, some of my more chauvinistic followers would say, will join Canada to Prince Edward Island.
We feel there are sound reasons for this work going forward. Not only would it facilitate the movement of tourists, but it would simplify the movement of our goods. Prince Edward Island is a mecca for tourists, one of those places to which people return again and again. We want to make these visits easier and we also want to facilitate the movement of goods from our farms. Prince Edward Island is sometimes described as the garden of the gulf. We are blessed with a fertile soil, and the products of our soil command top prices on the commodity markets.
There are many items which I could discuss in my present expansive mood, but I do not wish to place too many of the problems of our area before the government at one time. In Prince Edward Island we have one basic problem-the potato. We in this House are still greatly concerned about an industry which was once the leading industry in Canada-agriculture. We are taking a great interest in what has been done for the prairie farmers. What has been done for those farmers deserves to be done. We, in Prince Edward Island and in the east, rejoiced in the legislation providing cash advances on farm-stored grain; we were interested in the Agricultural Prices Stabilization Act and in the assistance given in the matter of freight rates. But we in Prince Edward Island produce another commodity which is our most vital commodity, namely the potato. We feel that producers of the potato should not be in any more precarious a position than are growers of wheat in another part of Canada. Throughout the years the potato industry has been marked by great uncertainty and wide fluctuations in price. At one point a farmer may get $2.50 a bushel; shortly afterwards he may find it impossible to get more than 50 cents. We call upon the government to take advantage of the Agricultural Prices Stabilization Act to stabilize in the best and most practical manner the price of this vital commodity. The potato is not among the named commodities mentioned in the act, but at the present time we face a situation which calls for action, and on behalf of the agriculturists in my province I ask that thorough consideration be given to providing stability and security for these very important producers.
Mr. Speaker, one always tries to live up to the characteristics of the region from which one comes, and one of the characteristics of our people is brevity. I should be very much
382	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. Eudes out of line if I consumed every minute of the time which is allocated to hon. members who speak in this debate. I will therefore close by assuring hon. members that the small province from which I come-the smallest of them all, but not the least in its contribution-will continue to play its part in this broader Canada. We will at no time ask for that which is not ours by right, but we feel that in this great federal structure we have the right, which we shall continue to assert, to ask for those things which are ours and for those things the granting of which will make for a better and a stronger Canada.


Mr. Raymond Eudes (Hochelaga):: Mr. Speaker, may I be permitted at the outset of my remarks to associate myself with other hon. members who have already taken part in this debate and to offer to the hon. member for St. Paul's (Mr. Michener) my most sincere congratulations on his election as Speaker of this house. We all rejoice at the high honour which has been conferred on him. His office is one of distinction, but it is also one of great responsibility, especially in the present circumstances when an opposition very small in numbers has to face the strongest government ever elected in this country; strongest, of course, as far as it is considered in relation to its numerical value.
We, the members of the opposition, are happy to acknowledge that no member of this house is more qualified than is the hon. member for St. Paul's to exercise those exalted functions. Since his election in 1953, and in the course of the last parliament, he has shown a command of the essential and exceptional qualifications required for the post of Speaker. He has integrity, a sound judgment, a clear and profound knowledge of the rules and proceedings of the house, and, above all, impartiality; qualities which are the guarantee that the rights and privileges of all our members, notwithstanding their political affiliations, will be respected and that the basic principles of true democracy will thus be maintained.
The outcome of the last election shows, of course, at first sight a very bright picture of the brilliant victory won by our Conservative friends. Nevertheless it might be of some importance to consider the plain truth and to examine that picture more closely so that we may grasp the real expression of the feelings and consciousness of the Canadian people. Approximately 7,287,135 electors voted on March 31-3,911,195 for the Conservatives, roughly 2,500,000 for the Liberals, 700,000 for the C.C.F. and 225,000 for the other parties. Notwithstanding their


smallness in numbers, the opposition therefore represents in this house 3,375,940 Canadian voters, or 46 per cent of the total electorate.
The members of the opposition in this house have a very definite task to perform, one which was clearly outlined by the Prime Minister (Mr. Diefenbaker) when he was sitting on this side of the house. That task embodies a special concern by members of the opposition to see that under the guidance and protection of the Speaker the voice of that 46 per cent of the Canadian electorate is brought to the attention of the present government.
May I also extend my congratulations to you, sir, as Deputy Speaker of this house. Apart from a common friendship which of course has no bearing whatsoever on the high post with which you have been entrusted, I know that you possess all the required qualifications to fulfil skilfully and in the manner the house expects the difficult tasks with which you will have to cope. I wish also to compliment the mover and the seconder of the address in reply to the speech from the throne. Both have impressed this house with the desire to hear them again. However, those compliments do not imply that I fully agree with everything that was said by the hon. members as being a complete and true image of our historical background.
It is quite true that Sir John A. Macdonald and Sir George Etienne Cartier deserve a special place in Canadian history as fathers of our nation but it is equally true that other great prime ministers have played a useful, brilliant and extremely important part in the building up of Canada. Sir Wilfrid Laurier, perhaps the greatest of them all, William Lyon Mackenzie King and Louis St. Laurent have been successful contributors to the achievement of the aims that have been those of all Canadians who want to live in a country free from fear, disunity, economic hardship and unemployment; the aims of all Canadians who want to live in a country enjoying the complete status of a free and independent nation without at the same time having to sever its intimate cultural and economic links with our mother countries.
As to the Prime Minister, the future alone will identify the place he will hold in our history. I should perhaps repeat what I said to my electors on the evening of March 31 that as one accepting the verdict of the Canadian people at large it was therefore my duty to help the Conservative party in whatever measures it brings before this house for the betterment of the conditions of life for the Canadian people but also that I shall oppose and combat any proposals of such a nature as

to deprive the people of my country, my province or my constituency of the benefits to which they are entitled.
At six o'clock the house took recess.


[Stage Direction]
AFTER RECESS

The house resumed at eight o'clock. (Translation):
Raymond Pierre Eudes: Now, Mr. Speaker, I should like to deal with the most pressing problem now facing parliament, that of unemployment. In spite of the optimistic statements of certain government members-and in this connection I refer more particularly to that made by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Fleming) who stated in Hamilton on April 21 last:
. . . that those elements which have brought about a levelling of economic activity in Canada are, generally speaking, of a temporary nature and for the most part originated outside our own borders; that unemployment is not so much due to an economic recession as to an abnormally high increase in the working force; that the workers' income has increased by 7 per cent, personal income by 6 per cent and, finally, that export trade has reached an unprecedentedly high level.
In spite of such optimistic statements, in spite of a small decrease in unemployment announced in yesterday's newspapers, to be realistic is the course of wisdom. Unemployment exists to an extremely critical degree.
At the end of April, Canadian newspapers reported that one out of ten employables was unemployed. Today, more than 800,000 people are registered with the National Employment Office as seeking work. This is the largest total on record since the inception of this service.
Considering that since the last months of 1957 the number of unemployed has increased at the rate of more than 20,000 per month, we cannot help but feel that the situation will become really alarming.
Did not Mr. C. A. L. Murchison, unemployment insurance commissioner, state in Montreal at the beginning of this month that the Unemployment Insurance Commission fund was threatened with depletion in less than six years, if the present rate of contributions and benefits is maintained. During the fiscal year ended on March 31st last, the Commission has paid out, in unemployment benefits, a higher amount than was paid out during its first 11 years of existence (1940-1951), that is over $385 million.
The hardships caused by unemployment are not, however, so disastrously felt as during
The Address-Mr. Eudes the last depression. Each month, unemployment benefits, old age pensions, family allowances, and benefits of all kinds which, as a result of the social legislation introduced by the previous governments, have put money into the pocketbook of the consumers are a powerful remedy to the hardships which otherwise would inevitably come with unemployment.
However, those social measures, as well as the amendment passed last week to the unemployment insurance act, are only stop-gaps. They do not reach the root of the unemployment problem, and cannot solve it in any way whatsoever.
Moreover, at some definite date, the right to those unemployment insurance benefits will come to an end for every unemployed.
What truly earnest effort, fairly likely to succeed, has the government made to stop or alleviate the swell of unemployment?
Yet, the rate of unemployment is alarming at least since October last. To be convinced, one has simply to refer to the speeches delivered in this house since the opening of this parliament and in particular to the speech made by the hon. member for Resti-gouche-Madawaska (Mr. Van Horne). This unemployment is the most serious economic upheaval that can happen to a country.
Is there a more distressing spectacle than that of a human being, who by nature and God's will was placed on earth to work and who, without being in the least responsible for it, suddenly finds himself unemployed.
As the leader of the opposition has said, a man out of work is not a statistic but a challenge to society. He is evidently unable to play his essential role in the mechanism of society, that of contributing to civilization by his work, however humble, and of supplying his family with food, clothing, shelter and that strict minimum without which no human being can make a fruitful use of his talents. Work is to the city what fecundity is to the family. Every employable human being must be a productive cog.
Yet there is unemployment and, at the domestic policy level, the federal government is thus charged with an imperative, serious and unescapable responsibility. Before anything else, it must become aware of the existence of this extremely painful problem, then study it and finally prescribe efficient remedies.
It would be ridiculous to attempt to share this responsibility, which rests squarely on
384	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. Eudes the central government, with the governments of ten provinces and innumerable municipalities, because of our constitutional system, of particular conditions affecting our economy, such as the need for export trade, of the nature of our production, of the fact that a relatively small population is widely scattered over a huge territory.
But is not that the opinion of the Prime Minister himself? Is that not what we may conclude from his statements before the last parliament and especially during the last election campaign? Did he not proclaim that if the country were to elect him with a sufficiently stable majority, he would solve this unemployment problem immediately? That majority he now has, possibly beyond his wildest dreams.
And now, Mr. Speaker, we are waiting and waiting anxiously for this promise to be fulfilled in order that our country may recover the economic balance it has lost since June 10, 1957.
The solution to this alarming problem of unemploynent therefore rests squarely on the shoulders of the federal government. It would be unreasonable not only to believe but even to imagine that the governments of ten provinces, that municipal councils, in our cities and towns and rural areas, are capable in the least of influencing those factors which affect our national economy, those innumerable factors which are the immediate or remote superficial or deep causes of this preposterous situation. How is it that in a country as prosperous as ours, as well endowed with every kind of possibility, 10 per cent at least of our workers now find themselves without a job?
Of course, if it were possible to determine with mathematical precision the basic cause of unemployment, the problem would be much easier to solve.
However, the causes are numerous and interrelated to such a point that it is practically impossible to say with certainty which is the most important, the one which has set the others into play.
Economists agree, and rightly so, that the immediate cause of unemployment is the excessive unsold inventories intended for the domestic market, or for export markets which are considered as absolutely necessary and as a constant prerequisite to our economic balance . . .


Mr. Harkness:: What are you reading now?


Joseph-Alphonse-Anaclet Habel: You had better continue reading yourself.


Raymond Pierre Eudes: You wish to know what I am reading? Those are my notes . . .


Douglas Scott Harkness: You are doing quite a bit of reading now; what were you reading from?


Raymond Pierre Eudes: Those are my notes.


Douglas Scott Harkness: Did you write them yourself?


Raymond Pierre Eudes: Yes.


Douglas Scott Harkness: That is fine!


John Whitney Pickersgill: I think it is great!


Raymond Pierre Eudes: Indeed our farmers, our fishermen, our manufacturers are producing much more than we can consume here in Canada. Now when this failure to sell our products reaches a certain level it causes an economic disorder: overproduction.
I use the word disorder purposely because overproduction is a sign of disorder, disorder in the minds of producers who, in their estimations, too often forget the essential action of the law of supply and demand, disorder too in the minds of men who having sought, obtained and accepted the difficult task of managing the affairs of the country should now channel our production so that it may find outlets on the domestic market as well as on foreign markets.
Is there no disorder when there is overproduction?
Let us think for a moment of the needs of those millions of people scattered over the world who lack the essential things for their immediate requirements, let us think of this being called man, perhaps a Canadian, whose needs are not only unfulfilled but far from adequate.
This overproduction and this sales slump of our products are necessarily due to lack of purchasing power both at home and abroad.
But then what is, in turn, the cause of this lack of purchasing power? The causes are manifold: first, unsound production programs, based not so much on the needs and desires of the consumer than on the producer's stubborn idea of forcing the public to buy through middlemen and advertising, thus involving expenses that double the actual cost price. Unsound commercial policy, neglecting external markets that might be excellent outlets for the disposal of our products while favouring others, often from sentimental reasons, that actually bring us only rather embarrassing customers. Unsound programs

in the matter of credit which, in some fields is excessive, with attendant dangers of growing inflation, while in other cases it is restricted to the point of paralysing industries which otherwise could activate an easily marketable production and create jobs for thousands of workers.
There are evidently other causes for lack of buying power, which it would be useless to discuss at this time, because they are only corollaries of those already mentioned.
Now production, foreign and domestic markets, credit, buying power and overproduction, all these aspects come under federal jurisdiction.
This government intends to embark on a public works policy in order to check unemployment. Without rejecting this suggestion, I do not believe that such public expenses which, after all, are carried by the taxpayer, will bring about the immediate alleviation of unemployment which it demands. The very planning and preparation of such projects call for a period of several months. They may also make necessary a migration of people who, when the project has been completed, will again be unemployed if other local industries are unable to absorb this labour force when it becomes available.
I believe, Mr. Speaker, that serious consideration should be given to the buying power of the consumer and to his needs, on the domestic as well as on the foreign market. I also believe that producers should be guided by results thus obtained, as to the nature, the volume and the distribution of their production; and that foreign trade should be directed to the countries needing our goods or which, in their turn, are able to sell us the essential commodities we lack.
Those principles are extremely simple but nevertheless hold the key to the unemployment problem.
To those considerations may be added some practical suggestions, for instance the development of small industries, giving the economy a greater individual flexibility by maintaining a class of craftsmen assured of their living, as the fate of the working classes often depends upon the destiny of a single day; care that credit does not unduly sustain the production of articles that might not sell, or that credit does not pave the way for another frightful evil, inflation.
In order to increase at once the purchasing power, several steps come to mind, such as: (a) immediate tax exemption at all levels, which is less liable to produce inflation than public expenditures and which, through the
The Address-Mr. Bourbonnais resumption of business, will in no way affect the treasury, since it will bring about an increase in tax collection at the lower levels, which will offset any losses incurred at the higher levels; (b) extend family allowances until age 18 for students; (c) grant unemployment insurance benefits to those who must quit their work because of illness; (d) grant the old age assistance benefits to widows and spinsters as soon as they reach the age of 60.
In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, the problem of unemployment is, by its very nature, the most alarming problem a government has to deal with in domestic affairs; this is a problem which bears upon its conscience, whether it likes it or not.
The right hon. Prime Minister promised to solve this problem if the people would give him their confidence. He now has this confidence, as well as all available means to put an end to this distressing situation which, in our country, after 22 years of prosperity, of security which we have known under the governments of Mr. Mackenzie King and Mr. St. Laurent, is a challenge to democracy and to mankind.
(Text):


Mr. Marcel Bourbonnais (Vaudreuil-Sou-langes):: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the population of Vaudreuil-Soulanges riding which I represent, 1 wish to offer you my most sincere congratulations upon your election to the high office you now hold. I wish to offer the same mark of respect to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration (Mrs. Fair-clough); the Minister of Defence Production (Mr. O'Hurley); the Secretary of State (Mr. Courtemanche) for their appointments to cabinet posts. I should like also to join with other members in extending congratulations to the Deputy Speaker, the hon. member for Longueuil (Mr. Sevigny). May I add my words of appreciation to those of other hon. members for the wonderful address moved by the hon. member for Quebec-Montmorency (Mr. Lafreniere), seconded by the hon. member for Yukon (Mr. Nielsen).
I should like to express to this house the gratitude I owe to the people of my county for the confidence they have put in me, and may God help me to represent them with respect and dignity. The riding of Vaudreuil-Soulanges has four times elected your predecessor in the chair, Mr. Speaker. I want to ask the whole house to be lenient and not judge him too harshly in the light of the

The Aadress-Mr. Bourbonnais news which appeared in yesterday's newspapers. In all fairness to the people I represent, I must say that the hon. Mr. Beaudoin was not born, brought up or educated in Vaudreuil-Soulanges. My county has elected such well-known politicians as Sir Wilfrid Laurier, Senator Boyer and Senator Wilson.
I am very proud to say that these members were amongst the best of the Liberals who represented Vaudreuil-Soulanges almost exclusively since confederation.
Vaudreuil-Soulanges is typical of the province of Quebec. It is situated at the doorstep of Montreal, bordered by the province of Ontario on the west, on the north by the Ottawa river and on the south by the St. Lawrence river. It is crisscrossed by our two major railroads, the Canadian National railways and the Canadian Pacific railway. It is also the fork of the Montreal, Ottawa and Toronto highways. It is typical of the whole province of Quebec, being populated by approximately one-third of English speaking Canadians and two-thirds of French speaking Canadians and the best of relations are maintained between the two groups.
It it also typical of the province of Quebec because it reacts in the same way as the majority of Quebec. Our main occupation is farming and dairying. A great number of our people earn their living as tradesmen. They have to commute to Montreal from the suburbs to earn their living. A good many of them are office workers. We have few industries inside the county to help our people to earn their living. The Soulanges canal is our most beautiful landmark and one of our major industries, it will cease its operations when the St. Lawrence seaway is open to navigation next summer. The men working on the canal will eventually be laid off, thus increasing the number of those unemployed which is quite impressive as of now. I have confidence in the future; I have confidence that the future will brighten for us because the Conservatives are in power now.
Here, Mr. Speaker, I want to refer back to history. The Soulanges canal was built some 65 years ago by a Conservative government and it brought to my county work and progress. The decision to close it was taken under a Liberal administration and it brought sorrows and worries to very many people. Now that the Conservatives are back in power we have confidence in the future and my election is a proof of the confidence of the people in the Conservative party.
Another question that I have very much at heart is the development of our municipalities in Vaudreuil-Soulanges, in the province of Quebec as well as in the whole

of Canada. I refer to development of our municipalities without breaking the bank account of all our proprietors. I must say that municipal affairs are under provincial jurisdicition, and for that matter they are well taken care of by our provincial government. But in Quebec after 40 years of Liberal administration the actual government of Quebec had to build everything. It had to build new schools at the rate of one a day. It is still doing so and it can hardly keep up with the need. It had to build hospitals by the dozens. It had to spend billions for roads and bridges. It had to take countless measures to help the poor farmers of our province who were left penniless after the depression. It had to spend all kinds of money to help them live. It had to bring the province of Quebec to the level of the other provinces of Canada. For that reason I shall always have admiration and great respect for the premier of the province of Quebec, regardless of all criticism against him from whatever source it may come.
To come back to the subject of our municipalities I want to mention the state of our small towns and villages that seem to belong to the last century more than to this atomic age. Most of them need water systems, sewerage systems, roads, firefighting equipment, playgrounds and so on but they cannot undertake any project of that kind because of the high cost due in part to the high rate of interest charged on loans and the low price paid for their municipal bonds. It so happens that when a municipal corporation has paid up a debt for a project it has paid approximately twice the amount of the original cost. It is very discouraging for the taxpayers.
Since the federal government has found a way to finance construction of private homes, could it not find a way in which to help finance at a fraction of the current interest rate all municipal corporation public projects? I am sure if such a scheme could be worked out a great number of municipal projects now sleeping in as many city halls would be undertaken and started fairly soon. It would also give work to very many as well as activate slowed-down industries.
Before concluding, Mr. Speaker, I should like to express my thanks to the Prime Minister (Mr. Diefenbaker) for so kindly having lent his personality during the last campaign; also to the Minister of Finance (Mr. Fleming), the Solicitor General (Mr. Balcer) and the Minister of Transport (Mr. Hees) for their visit to my county which meant victory for me. May I add my thanks also to the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Pearson) for some wise words as reported

in Time of February 17, 1958, at page 14, which are as follows:
It would be foolish and unfair to try to pin unemployment on the Conservatives.
Those words balanced marvelously some too Liberal publicity directed against us. It would not be fair not to include some thanks to the Toronto Daily Star for the free publicity it gave me during the campaign. Imagine my picture being next to the Prime Minister on the front page of that paper. Now that the Tories have finally wiped out all prejudice between Toronto and Quebec, it is very hard for a Quebecker awaiting the hockey season to leave Toronto alone altogether.
(Translation):
Mr. Speaker, an impressive number of English-speaking members of this house having spoken in the French language I felt that it was the better part of wisdom that I should myself speak in their own tongue. When the system of simultaneous translation begins to function, I will always be pleased to speak in my own mother tongue.
Before closing my remarks, and in order to reassure those members of the house who understand only with difficulty how it is that the Conservative party has suddenly become so popular in the province of Quebec, as well as our respect for the provincial authority of the province of Quebec, I would like to say that for far too long now a large number of Quebec Conservatives voted Liberal for purely sentimental reasons. These times have gone and it is now good Liberals who are voting Conservative, which explains my presence in this house.
For far too long, Mr. Speaker, attempts were made in the province of Quebec to divide those French and English elements which make up the population of this country. Attempts were made to have our religious beliefs favour a particular political party. This procedure has succeeded for too long and today those arguments are obsolete and no longer of any value.
The attitude of our Prime Minister, in considering all provinces as having equal rights, in respecting the racial and religious origins of everyone, in interpreting judiciously the constitution of our country, I repeat, the attitude of the Prime Minister and his cabinet caused the national landslide which, I hope, will rid us forever of language and religion prejudice which is so detrimental to the good development of those who are victims of it.
There is much more that I would like to say but, in order to give some of my colleagues the chance to express their opinions, I shall now conclude my remarks. I thank hon.
57071-3-25J
The Address-Mr. Leduc members for their patience in listening to me and I thank you, Mr. Speaker, for your kind attention.
(Text):


Mr. Rodolphe Leduc (Gatineau):: My first
remarks, Mr. Speaker, will be to extend to you my most sincere congratulations on your re-election as Speaker of this house. I wish also to extend my congratulations to the newly elected Deputy Speaker (Mr. Sevigny).
The mover (Mr. Lafreniere) and the seconder (Mr. Nielsen) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne delivered excellent speeches and I extend to them my sincere congratulations.
(Translation):
Mr. Speaker, in taking part in this important debate I intend to deal with the most serious problem, the problem of unemployment which affects my constituency, my province and the whole country.
I do not intend to indulge in negative criticisms about the policy of the government but rather to offer a few suggestions to contribute to the solution of this distressing problem for my riding. As I said in the house the other day, there are over 3,000 unemployed now receiving unemployment insurance benefits in my constituency. The situation is alarming and it is the responsibility of the federal and provincial governments to find the best possible solution to that problem.
The speech from the throne announces a vast program of public works throughout the country to help the unemployed. In studying it carefully, I find that few of them will be carried out in my riding. The problem will not be solved until there is an agreement between the federal, provincial and municipal governments for the undertaking of realistic and useful works to create employment. Well, I am going to suggest works of federal responsibility which could be carried out in the riding of Gatineau. Public wharves could be built on some lakes and rivers. In the Gatineau district the tourist industry ranks second in importance in the constituency. Thousands of tourists come there each year to spend their vacation, either to rest and admire the natural beauty of our lakes, forests and mountains, or for fishing or hunting. Vacationing attracts thousands of tourists, especially American tourists because part of the constituency is located in the area of the national capital, about 60 miles from the border of the most populous state of the United States, the state of New York.

The Address-Mr. Leduc Those tourists complain that there are no public wharves on many lakes, which causes considerable difficulties. The government should start the construction of four wharves for which plans and estimates have been prepared by the Department of Public Works, that is: one on lake St. Marie, one at Mani-waki, one at Val des Bois, and one at Notre Dame de la Salette.
The development of Gatineau park, the only national park in the province of Quebec, might be immediately carried out, which would give employment to hundreds of workless people. Incidentally, I would ask my colleagues in this house, and particularly hon. members from the province of Quebec, to visit Gatineau national park which is unique in the province.
The public park and beach which last year were given to the Federal District Commission by the town of Aylmer might also be developed right away and jobs be created for a great number of unemployed.
A vast program of public works to be pursued jointly with the provincial and municipal governments might also be launched.
There are roads to build and to improve, bridges to span and protecting walls to erect in order to prevent erosion. Among the very important bridges that we should build let me mention only those that would connect Hull with Ottawa and Deschenes with Britannia.
In several municipalities of my constituency, there are water and sewer works that could be carried out; this would tend to alleviate the unemployment problem and help the municipalities at the same time.
Governments could agree to construct a main sewer extending from the city of Aylmer to the city of Gatineau, which sewer could serve for Aylmer itself, and for the municipalities of Deschenes, South Hull, Hull, Gatineau Point and Gatineau. A filtration plant could also be built for those sewers east of the town of Gatineau, and thus contribute to prevent in part the pollution of the Ottawa river.
The government must be brought to understand that commerce and industry have to be stimulated, that our exports of lumber, paper and other forest products to the United States and other countries must be stepped up.
The province of Quebec produces approximately 50 per cent of all newsprint manufactured in Canada and exports at this 
time 85 per cent of that production to the United States. Last year the export of that commodity to the United States was reduced and will be further reduced this year to an alarming degree. I have here some figures which were provided to me by the Federal Bureau of Statistics with regard to that reduction in pulpwood exports to the United States. In 1957 Canada exported poplar to the United States, in January, February and March 1957, to the value of $8,760,000, and for the same months this year, to a value of $4,646.52. As far as wood chips are concerned, which include poplar, spruce and fir, exports last year to the United States and Great Britain reached a value of $17,000,000 approximately for January, February and March. This year our exports to those same countries were valued at $12,500,000 which means there has been an increase of exports to Great Britain of approximately one half million.
In the financial page of Le Devoir, for May 19, 1958, I find the following:
There has been a reduction in our newsprint industry production for January.
For the month of January, Canadian production of newsprint was 498,274 tons, that is 60,290 tons or 10.8 per cent less than in January 1957.
Canadian shipments were reduced by 38,807 tons, or 7.6 per cent, reaching a total of 474,701 tons. Shipments to the United States were 407,785 tons that is the equivalent of 85.9 per cent of the total, or 4.1 per cent less than in January of last year.
This brings me to say a few words about the report on the inquiry into the trade restrictive practices, an inquiry which I asked in this house in January, 1955, to be made against some pulp and paper companies buying pulpwood in my constituency. The Liberal government granted this inquiry whose report was published on April 29 last. I take advantage of this opportunity to congratulate the officers of the Department of Justice on their ability and their initiative in carrying out this inquiry. I urge hon. members, especially hon. members from rural constituencies of Quebec, to study the report originating from the investigation.
According to the conclusions drawn in this case, 19 companies have been found guilty of joining together to exploit farmers and settlers. It is now up to the federal government and to the Quebec provincial government to act in order to protect the settler and the farmer.
I hope that the present government will implement an election promise made by the Prime Minister in Rimouski during the last

campaign. This is what he said on that occasion, as reported by the Ottawa Journal for February 27, 1958:
(Text):
This is what the Prime Minister (Mr. Dief-enbaker) had to say on this matter at a meeting in Rimouski, and I am quoting from the Ottawa Journal of February 27, 1958:
He said he hopes that an advisory board which will help administer the government's new farm price supports program will consider including farmer-produced pulpwood under the program.
I hope the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Harkness) will include pulpwood in the list of commodities whose prices he proposes to stabilize.


Douglas Scott Harkness: I am always glad to receive the advice of the hon. member.


Rodolphe Leduc: I have read reports in the
newspapers that during the last week of the session of the Ontario legislature an amendment was introduced into the forestry products law to provide that in future pulpwood from farmers and suppliers would no longer be considered in Ontario as a forestry product but as a farm product.
(Translation):
I am therefore asking for a support price that will guarantee to our farmers and settlers a reasonable price for pulpwood.
The main responsibility for having tolerated the exploitation of settlers and farmers by a number of lumbering companies for many years rests with the government of the province of Quebec but I realize that the Union Nationale electoral fund took advantage of that, and as Mr. Duplessis said: "In Quebec, you do not win elections with prayers only".
I had proof of that in the last election.


Mr. Lafreniere:: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. There are in this house 75 members from the province of Quebec and, on several occasions, our hon. friends of the Liberal party have indulged in malicious insinuations against the provincial government. We are not here as representatives of the provincial Liberal party nor of the provincial party of the Union Nationale. We were sent here by the people as their representatives to the federal government and I object to our hon. friends opposite continuing to make unkind insinuations about the government of our province.
(Text):


Lionel Chevrier: On the point of order which has just been raised, it has long been the
The Address-Mr. Leduc practice and custom in this house that hon. members be allowed to deal with any subject pertaining to the speech from the throne, and a large degree of latitude has always been allowed by the Chair. This was the case during the course of today's debate; it was done yesterday, and it was done the day before by members on both sides of the house, and surely the hon. member for Gatineau (Mr. Leduc) is entitled to say what he said concerning the government of another province. It seems to me that the hon. member who raised the point of order should not be so sensitive about these things, to the point where one may not discuss them in the house. In my humble opinion, the hon. member for Gatineau should be allowed to continue his remarks.


Mr. Deputy Speaker:: There is, in fact, a definite latitude permitted during the debate on the speech from the throne in consequence of which the hon. members can more or less cover the field. However, it would be appreciated if as far as possible the hon. members woud limit themselves to matters under discussion and which appear in the speech from the throne.
(Translation):


Mr. Valade:: Mr. Speaker, I too wish to raise a point of order ...


Mr. Deputy Speaker:: I would ask the hon. members to be kind enough to let the hon. member for Gatineau finish his remarks.


Rodolphe Leduc: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The problem I was dealing with is a commercial matter and, in the speech from the throne, it is said that the government will do its best to improve trade, not only with the United States but with all the countries of the world.
If my hon. friends from Quebec claim that what is said concerning the report of the investigation made under the Combines Investigation Act is wrong, let them prove it. Let them prove, if they can do so through their speeches in this house and in the province of Quebec, let them prove to the settlers and farmers that they have not been exploited by the paper companies in that province.


Mr. O'Hurley:: You were in power at the time.


Rodolphe Leduc: Mr. Speaker, I would like to conclude these remarks by putting forward a suggestion for the government's consideration. This would be a long term project for the

The Address-Mr. Leduc good of my constituency and of the Ottawa-Hull area as well as, generally speaking, for the residents of both banks of the river. This suggestion I put to the government because it claimed before the last elections and during the campaign itself that it was unable to undertake long term projects because it did not have a stable majority in the house.
Well, the government has that majority now and I put forward that suggestion which I consider feasible after having studied it with competent engineers. This could be carried out jointly by the Ottawa government, the Quebec and Ontario governments and the municipalities concerned. I refer here to the construction of a pipe line for the transportation of pure water from 31 Mile lake through the villages and the valley of the Gatineau river to serve the whole Hull area and the whole of the Ottawa valley so as to provide the people there with a pure water supply. Water would run down the Gatineau mountainsides by force of gravity, there being a difference of altitude of more than 350 feet between Ottawa and the 31 Mile lake. Consequently, this pipe-line would eliminate filtration plants, pumping units and chlorination plants. That, in my opinion, is the logical solution to the problem of pure water supply for the whole Gatineau area and the Ottawa valley.
Cities like New York bring in drinking water over hundreds of miles from distant lakes to supply their needs, and the city of Syracuse brings in the water it requires through a pipe-line from lake Skaneateles over a distance of 15 miles. This project would cost perhaps 30 million dollars or more, but it would pay for itself and it is the duty of the governments concerned to study the matter and find once and for all the solution to the problem of supplying the whole Ottawa area with pure drinking water.
Mr. Speaker, you are no doubt aware that the city of Ottawa is the only city in this area having a water filtration plant on the Ottawa river. Indeed, Ottawa papers reported yesterday that a new filtration plant would be built in Britannia at a cost of $5 million. Not all cities and municipalities of the Ottawa area have filtration plants. They have to supply water to residents of the area. The Ottawa river is recognized as an open sewer and there are no purification plants for all the sewerage being poured into the Ottawa river. Going down from Aylmer and Britannia, the Ottawa river is polluted as far as Montreal and residents on both shores of the river have to drink that water after a strong chlorine solution has been added to it.
Well, in my opinion, as a means of reducing unemployment and of helping the municipali-

ties, the government should consider supplying all these municipalities with pure water. There is there an inexhaustible reserve of pure water. If the government really intends to help the municipalities prepare for the future according to the plans of the great French town planner, Mr. Jacques Greber- for the Ottawa area will have at the end of this century a population of more than half a million, that is double its present population-then it is time for the government to help them use the methods necessary to provide an adequate supply of pure water. I consider that such a project would promote the welfare, the development and the progress of that area.
(Text):


Mr. W. H. Payne (Coast-Capilano):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to join the many hon. members who have spoken before me in offering my warm congratulations to the Speaker, to yourself the Deputy Speaker, and to the hon. member for Spadina (Mr. Rea). In paying this tribute I wish to add a personal word. It is now 57 years since my late father had the honour and distinction of serving your father in his first election and aiding his political efforts. It was the occasion when the late Senator Michener entered the Northwest Territories council. Mr. Speaker is indeed following the high tradition established by his distinguished father.
I also wish to extend my congratulations to the hon. member for Quebec-Montmorency (Mr. Lafreniere) and to the hon. member for Yukon (Mr. Nielsen) for their splendid speeches in moving and seconding the address in reply to the speech from the throne.
The riding which I have the great honour to represent is perhaps unique in Canada in that in some small way its name depicts its attributes and describes the kind of riding it is. We of Coast-Capilano are proud of the fact that our shoreline stretches from Indian Arm along the north shore of Burrard inlet which embraces the northern part of the great port of Vancouver. It continues along English bay and up the gulf of Georgia almost 160 miles to Bute inlet. From there our beautiful riding extends inland, the boundary lines flowing southward again along a vista of snowcapped mountains covered with great glacial fields. Coast-Capilano is outstandingly beautiful and its name is particularly descriptive. I trust that hon. members will pardon any lack of modesty I display in referring to my riding.
Another unique feature of Coast-Capilano is the diversity of its industry and commerce. One of our primary industries is lumbering. There is the movement of tremendous log booms down the coast to the great lumber

mills situated on the Fraser river and Burrard inlet itself. Our most northerly development is the town of Powell River which has one prime industry, that being the Powell River Pulp & Paper Company which operates the world's largest single pulp and paper plant.
Contrasting with the tugboats and booms, the sport and commercial fishing, the lumbering and the pleasure craft that abound we have on the north side of Burrard inlet a complex metropolitan development which includes among other industries a great shipbuilding yard, the west coast's largest dry-dock and shipbuilding concern. Unfortunately, under the former administration this vitally important sector of the great port of Vancouver was neglected, treated with neglect of an almost shoddy nature. Half of the port of Vancouver was treated in a manner not lending itself to the orderly development of this great west coast port, now and in the future the main port for shipping goods westward across the shipping lanes of the Pacific ocean.
I have great pleasure tonight in saying that discussions have been undertaken with the Minister of Transport (Mr. Hees). He is keenly aware of the harbour problems, problems which have become much more acute during the last six months with the extension of the Pacific Great Eastern Railway to the port of Vancouver. Within a few months there will be an influx of a vast tonnage of sulphur from Taylor Flats in the Peace river block of British Columbia. Tremendous shipments of grain from that same area must find an outlet to the sea. That outlet can well be situated on the north shore, and also be situated in the town of Squamish.
Studies are under way now and we have the assurance that everything possible and practical will be undertaken to serve this need, a need that is not of a local nature at all but something that will contribute to the commerce of British Columbia. To the people of Coast-Capilano this is a tremendous and encouraging thing.
Yesterday the hon. member for Bonavista-Twillingate (Mr. Pickersgill) remarked at some length about the one-man feature of the new administration. So far as transport is concerned, which vitally affects the future development of Pacific coast shipping, there is another man in the cabinet today who is giving consideration to the needs of the nation, something that has not been done for 22 long years.
I referred earlier to the mountainous terrain. Not far from the great metropolitan area of greater Vancouver, indeed just 42 miles by road from that great congestion of population, just 42 miles from the north
The Address-Mr. Payne end of the Lion's Gate bridge lies a hidden treasure land which you have probably read of known as Garibaldi park. Garibaldi park is a great alpine plateau a mere 13 miles inland from the sea and towers to a height of over 9,000 feet. It contains one of the great glacial areas of our coastal range. For those using automobiles it is less than a two hour drive on the new road to the Squamish area and Garibaldi park.
It has been the wish and desire not only of the people of Coast-Capilano but all the other constituencies in the lower mainland that this great treasure land be opened up and developed for the use for all time of the people of Canada. I take pleasure in saying that discussions have taken place with the Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources (Mr. Hamilton) who has shown the keenest interest in discussing the matter and co-operating in bringing into being something of a real and practical nature in that area so that this year-round ski resort on the high plateaus may be opened to the people. He has indicated that such development will be undertaken on the basis of full co-operation with the present holder of that vast tract of beautiful land and with full understanding of their problems. I speak of the government of the province of British Columbia.
I should like to point out to the hon. member who spoke of the one-man machine that another minister in the new administration, the Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources, has taken a vital interest in a matter that received only a negative approach and reaction from a Liberal administration that had 22 years to sit down and do something about it.
Activity in this great area can contribute in a real way to solving the problems inherent in the immediate district. I refer to Howe sound which is within five miles of the heights of Garibaldi park. It is not many months ago that the house had occasion to consider the tragic situation existing in the Howe sound area. I refer to the Britannia mine. Right at the height of the election campaign the mine was closed. I can assure you that during the campaign, despite the humanitarian efforts made by the twenty-third parliament of Canada to relieve the tragic situation in that area, despite every effort made by our great Prime Minister (Mr. Diefenbaker) and the Minister of Justice (Mr. Fulton) who negotiated the arrangements to keep the mine in operation, I was avidly pursued by the gentlemen of the Liberal party and attacked in a most critical fashion throughout the campaign on the basis of the closure of Britannia mine. To the Liberals on my right I should like to say that the

The Address-Mr. Payne people out there had their say in the matter and a Liberal was not returned from Coast-Capilano.
To turn to the details of the speech from the throne, the hon. member for Welland (Mr. McMillan) had a great deal to say to the house the other day as to his lack of faith, belief and confidence in the value of public works but in the next breath he belied his statement because he came forward with the greatest list of public works for Welland that has ever been presented to the house. He seems to have seen the vision after 22 years. The electors of Coast-Capilano sincerely confirm the belief that Conservatives in the house and elsewhere have in the value of public works to develop the capital plant of Canada and at the same time put money in the hands of men who are out of work.
Little has been said by our friends to my right with regard to the National Housing Act. Our north shore area is basically an area of homes. I can assure you that prior to June 10 last a new record low for housing starts had been established, and the figure had been going downhill fast for a period of eight months in the municipality of West Vancouver, the municipality of North Vancouver and the city of North Vancouver itself. Until the 15th of June of last year building starts in those three communities were less than they had been in a 10-year period. Last October, and continuing every month since, building starts in those three communities established an all-time record, not for one month but for each month up to date.
Referring again to the fact that the Liberals feel this government is a one-man operation, I should like to draw to their attention the activities of our beloved hon. member for Vancouver-Quadra (Mr. Green), the Minister of Public Works. During the course of the last two election campaigns I have found myself in a rather unique position in that I have been facing a problem which is of great consequence not only to British Columbia but the whole of Canada. Reference has been made earlier in this debate to this problem by the hon. member for Burnaby-Richmond (Mr. Drysdale), that is the problem of fish versus power. I trust it is our intention, indeed I am sure we will make it so, to divorce the problem of fish versus power on the west coast from the fuzzy-headed histrionics with which it has been connected for the past 22 years. This has been illustrated by a gallant man standing at the bridge, like Horatius, and stating "The Fraser forever for fish". I am not one who advocates the creation of dams and the end of the fishing industry, but I do say it is high time proper studies, with practical tests were undertaken to solve this problem, as solved it can and must be.

For many decades past, and certainly for the 22 years of the late administration, this issue has become more complex and the vying parties have become more violent. No real effort has been made to solve the problem and bring to the people of the west coast both power and fish. Practical tests have never been made in Canada of the creation of artificial spawning beds or artificial spawning itself has never been attempted. These things have been done by others, and I believe a solution of this problem could be reached within a maximum period of 10 years, if the solution were pursued with an open mind. Then the west coast would benefit by having both power and fish. I trust that we will learn a lesson from the lamentable showing, the grossly narrow outlook of the former administration in connection with this matter of fish and power.
The people of Coast-Capilano, and certainly the many veterans living on the Sechelt peninsula, will welcome with great enthusiasm the establishment of a standing committee on veterans' affairs. This move will result in continuity in dealing with the many pressing problems of the veterans, and avoid the lapsing of the committee and the resultant lack of continuity in dealing with problems every time this house is adjourned. In this connection I should like to direct special attention to the problem of the merchant seamen who saw service during the last war in areas which were under enemy attack. During their service many of these seamen were not only wounded but were taken prisoners of war. I should like to refer to a number of specific cases who spent at least three years in prisoner-of-war camps and who are not entitled to hospitalization under the veterans' legislation.
The other day a small point was mentioned by one hon. member on the Liberal benches. I do not want you to think I regard the former administration in a wholly unfavourable light. The hon. member referred to barbiturates or, as I believe he termed it, goofballs. This is not a problem which has come directly to my attention, but it is a problem of mounting seriousness in Canada today. This problem is closely allied, as he so well pointed out, to the tragic situation of those citizens who have fallen before the pressures of modern-day living, have availed themselves of the solace of narcotics, and wound up in the tragedy of drug addiction. I trust that the Minister of National Health and Welfare (Mr. Monteith) in considering the national health scheme has been keeping in mind this vitally important matter as well as taking cognizance of the need for further study throughout Canada of mental health. In saying this I am not trying to magnify

the problem. I profoundly believe it is a responsibility of all parties in Canada to manfully face the issue of treatment for these unfortunate sufferers from maladies brought about by the pressures of our modern-day living. I sincerely feel that the welfare of Canadians is of prime importance because Canadians are Canada's greatest asset.
In closing, I should like to say it is a great honour to be in this House of Commons. I should like to pay a specific tribute to a very great Canadian, the Prime Minister and to his cabinet. I look forward with pleasure to working with all hon. members in this house, and I trust that in some small way I may be in a position to serve this great nation.
(Translation):


Mr. Azellus Denis (St. Denis):: Mr. Speaker, may I be allowed to make a few remarks in connection with the present discussion. I owe it to myself, following the example of my colleagues who spoke before me, to congratulate you on your appointment, without forgetting the deputy chairman (Mr. Sevi-gny), the new ministers (Messrs. Courte-manche and O'Hurley), the mover and seconder of the address (Messrs. Lafreniere and Nielsen). I hope that all, without exception, are more than satisfied with the posts entrusted to them and that they will wish for nothing better. They all have my very best wishes.
I would chide myself not to add a word of sympathy to some other colleagues, Conservative colleagues of course, who were hoping to assume those functions. I commiserate with them. They have been unlucky and the hope they were nurturing has vanished. I wish they may find consolation and comfort comparing their blighted hopes with the rose of which the poet said: "A rose, she lived the span of a rose, the space of a morning."
I shall also congratulate the right hon. Prime Minister (Mr. Diefenbaker) on his phenomenal victory which has almost been unanimous, including Quebec, and, facing such calamity, I shall quote a verse of La Fontaine, from the fable entitled "The Animals Befallen by the Plague". "All did not die, but all were stricken."
However, in the province of Quebec, it is not known yet who is the most popular, the Prime Minister or the Union Nationale. The Prime Minister is aware, no doubt, that the Union Nationale gave a hand in the political struggle and that after such effort 57071-3-26
The Address-Mr. Denis and devotion on the part of both, it is not known who is the more popular of the two. In the constituency of St. Denis, for instance, we did not see the Prime Minister, but we saw the Union Nationale. I do not know if the electors of St. Denis voted for the Prime Minister or for the Union Nationale. In any case, it is unfortunate, Mr. Speaker, that apparently I should not be able to explain to you how this political machine operated in St. Denis and elsewhere.


Mr. Paul:: Could the hon. member explain, while he is at it, the reasons of the Liberal party's defeat in the other areas of Canada?


Azellus Denis: It would be rather easy to give those reasons, but since there are 265 constituencies, if I had to spend five minutes on each of them, I would never come to the end of my explanation. Nevertheless, unlike perhaps the hon. friend who interrupted me, I know what I am talking about, that is the riding of St. Denis, one of the most beautiful. I suppose that my riding comprises, like the others, Canadians of good will. But as far as the popularity of the Prime Minister or the Union Nationale is concerned, I find that in the constituency of St. Denis the rush towards the polls was curiously distributed. The number of electors in the constituency of St. Denis was in 1958 about the same as in 1957. There was about the same number of votes cast in 140 polls. But in about 40 polls, some 30 to 70 of the most loyal, devoted, and dedicated people supporting the Union Nationale or the Conservative party voted in a way contrary to the way people voted in the other 140 polls. Needless to say, Mr. Speaker, that your humble servant was returned with a huge minority in these 40 polls.
Mr. Speaker, I read the speech from the throne with a good deal of curiosity. Thence the admiration I feel for the mover and the seconder who acquitted themselves so well of their task, in spite of the lack of ideas and constructive suggestions to be found in that speech with regard to the solution of the present difficulties.
There is nothing in the speech to show how unemployment is to be solved immediately and permanently. And as far as international trade is concerned, there is nothing there but words about trading with the commonwealth. I will quote here a passage from that famous speech:
"My government believes that the condition of international economic affairs is such as to require major considerate efforts to encourage the expansion of trade."
394	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. Denis
"It is accordingly very gratifying that all countries of the commonwealth have accepted the proposal of Canada, that a commonwealth trade economic conference be held in September of this year in Montreal."
As you will see, Mr. Speaker, there is no talk of expanding our international trade with any other group of countries than the commonwealth. The government does not seem interested in expanding our trade with France for instance or Belgium or Holland or other countries in the world. Moreover, this policy tends to reduce our trade with the United States.
The preceding government was blamed for the trade deficit with the United States, so to remedy this situation the present government decided to divert to the United Kingdom 15 per cent of our purchases in the United States. But even with this 15 per cent diversion, our balance of trade with the United States will remain unfavourable.
If such a deficit is so bad and if the policy of this government is good, why not a diversion of 30, 40, 50, 60 per cent, or of as much as necessary to eliminate this trade deficit with the United States. The sore would have been healed completely, whereas now it is only half so. What is intended in reality is shifting the sore from one place to the other, if there is a sore, and to create a new one. For instance, instead of owing $100 to Uncle Sam only, we will owe $85 to Uncle Sam and $15 to John Bull. In the end, the result is the same with this difference that Uncle Sam our best customer, is dissatisfied and John Bull is not unduly happy. [DOT]
I hope that when the President of the United States visits Canada, the present government will succeed in making him understand that there was nothing serious in this change and that it was made only for the purpose of influencing part of the Canadian people on the eve of an election. Now that the election is over, this matter becomes a mere wish, and to-morrow will probably be denied by those who have advocated that policy. I also hope that during the visit of the President of the Federal Republic of West Germany, this government will tell us that it intends to promote trade with that country just as with commonwealth countries and that if he wants to do business with Canada, he will be welcome to the extent where Canada will be welcome to do business with Germany.
By so doing, the present government will correct the major errors it made when coming into power, and I hope that no similar ones will be made again. We will then be


able to hope that our businessmen and industrialists, free from apprehension about the present unsteadiness of the economy, will start operating again on normal schedule and will take on the thousands of employees they had to lay off.
Meanwhile, the present government cannot do anything better than to pass a bill extending the periods during which the unemployed may receive unemployment insurance benefits.
As another cure for unemployment the government proposes the construction of a highway in the Yukon and of a railway line to the Great Slave lake area which would help develop our ore resources, but it would be necessary then that this government does not act in such a way as to close our doors to the exportation of that ore.
Meanwhile, the best this government could do was to send a Canadian mission to England, not to sell our products but to buy English products.
I wonder what would be the reaction of the unemployed in Windsor if they saw English-made cars swarming over the streets of their beautiful city at a time when they cannot find any work in their Canadian plants.
If the Liberal government was accused, in the last election campaign, of putting all its business eggs in one basket, I respectfully submit that the present government is in the process of putting them in a basket full of holes, and is about to deliver the chicken to London.
Mr. Speaker, before concluding-


Mr. Courtemanche:: Not yet!


Azellus Denis: -I wish to thank the Conservative government (Applause) for having paid tribute to the Liberal party, and this in the speech from the throne, by commending one of the many measures enacted by the Liberals for the greatest benefit of Canadians.
I quote:
My government will continue to promote a victorious program of house building-
This is important and I beg you to listen to it, Mr. Speaker.
-which has already proven to be a strong feature of our economy and which constitutes the best opportunity for increased work in meeting the needs of our people.
This housing program Mr. Speaker-
-strong feature of our economy-

-is the work of the Liberal party as many other measures which have been enacted and have meant prosperity for our beautiful country during 22 years.
Mr. Speaker, I am therefore sorry that this government's attitude tends to paralyse and restrict our trade, to bring about unemployment, without offering in the speech from the throne any efficient, immediate and permanent means to correct the situation. And I am far from being pleased that the government is content to award additional benefits to the unemployed, until, in the next fall, or later, we see a procession of unemployed trekking to the Yukon or the Great Slave lake to work with pick and shovel thanks to the present government.
(Text):


Mr. P. B. Rynard (Simcoe East):: Mr. Speaker, this is my first opportunity to congratulate you on your appointment as Speaker of this house. Yours is a difficult task since all the frictions and frustrations arising on the floor of this chamber must be solved with your good humour and judgment and it is my sincere wish that you will continue to grace this office with the dignity and honour which you have already exhibited. To the Deputy Speaker (Mr. Sevigny) my sincere congratulations. This hon. gentleman has already shown a developing mastery of the fine art of verbal decision.
To the Prime Minister (Mr. Diefenbaker) I wish to express my sincere appreciation for his leadership. He has shown his ability to understand the problems of the Canadian whether in the home, the factory, on the farm or in business and to intepret those problems into policies which will better the lot of Canadians everywhere, no matter where they may live or be temporarily located. May God grant him the wisdom to continue with these wise policies.
To the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Pearson) I would like to express my congratulations on his display of good sportsmanship in accepting the decisive defeat.
I have never before had an opportunity to make a maiden speech in this house and I would like to state that I represent the constituency of Simcoe East, which is a constituency containing both English and Frenchspeaking people. It is a little Canada as it has its share of ethnic groups. It contains the oldest farming land in Canada. The Huron Indians were natives of this area and were growing and selling hemp, corn, tobacco and dried squash when Champlain first visited there in 1613. Six years after Quebec was established they were growing these products and trading them with the Algonquins and 57071-3-26*
The Address-Mr. Rynard other tribes for furs, which they in turn sold to the French. They even traded as far south as Mexico. When Champlain was persuaded to attack the Iroquois, which he did, he was defeated on the site of where Syracuse now stands in the state of New York. A few years later in the month of March the Iroquois came up into this Huron country-a distance of 600 miles-and wiped out the Hurons. A few escaped by way of Christian island to the Sault and were later brought back by the government and established on Christian island where their descendants now reside.
Today in my riding there stands a martyrs' shrine, a symbol and a remembrance of the horrible sacrifices and mutilations suffered by the Jesuit priests who were all martyred in the massacre of the Hurons, and this shrine is visited yearly by people from all over this continent.
Mine is a constituency rich in tradition, bounded on the north by Georgian bay, on the east by the Trent valley canal, and on the south by lake Simcoe and lake Cou-chiching.
It is one of the recognized beauty spots of Canada with three basic interests-tourism, industry and agriculture. I extend to all hon. members an invitation to visit this little Canada and enjoy its beauty and its ideology and, perhaps, seek a home or business there.
However, I must no longer dwell on the beauties of Simcoe East but turn to one of the problems of this area. At the present time we have an epidemic of rabies which affects Simcoe, Muskoka, Parry Sound, Prescott and to a lesser extent the ridings of Algoma, Carleton, Lanark, Manitoulin, Nipissing, Northumberland, Renfrew, York, Waterloo, Essex, Frontenac, Glengarry, Russell, Stormont and Victoria. In my own riding several animals have died from rabies; cattle have had to be quarantined and some have been destroyed. These are cattle which were bitten by foxes. It would appear that foxes are the carriers of this disease, although all animals, both wild and domestic, are subject to it. When foxes and other wild animals become infected they act strangely and will come right into farm buildings. In one case a fox came into a home and was clubbed to death there. There was another case where a cat became infected and scratched a small child on a lawn. The child was rushed to the Sick Children's Hospital where the full treatment of 12 injections of serum was given in the abdominal muscles. This is a painful treatment. The danger to human beings arises from bites or scratches from a rabid animal, or saliva from that animal coming into contact with abraded skin or a wound. Since foxes are usually the infected animals, it would appear that if we could exterminate foxes
336	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. Rynard
we could eliminate rabies. This is the time of year when farmers try to put their cattle out to grass, but a rabid fox can bite a dozen animals in a herd and the farmer receives no compensation for his losses because once an animal has been bitten treatment is of no value.
This is a national problem. The present epidemic began in northern Alberta in 1952, then proceeded southward and eastward to James bay where it was first discovered in 1954. Now it is down in old Ontario in the townships and counties I have mentioned. It is in those areas that we find the greatest concentration of foxes. For example, 85 infected foxes were found in April, 1958 in the territory around Simcoe, and I think we can safely consider that all foxes in this area are infected, at least in theory.
How are we to meet this problem? First, I would suggest by prevention, by the eradication of the foxes in these areas. The strange part of it is that this comes under the department of game, fisheries and wild life in the province of Ontario, while control of the disease rests with the federal government. I suggest we should eradicate these foxes by having the provincial governments work in close co-operation with the federal government and by increasing the bounty to the point where it would pay a hunter to go out and kill them. Secondly, farmers should be compensated for any of their animals which have to be slaughtered because they are infected with this disease. At present the farmer does not get a nickel. Attention to these two points would help immediately to relieve the burden on the farmer who, as things now stand, may find his whole means of livelihood quarantined or, at worst, destroyed under a federal law which does not in any way provide for compensation in respect of the misfortune he may suffer.
Also, since brucellosis testing is now under way in several counties of Ontario I would suggest to this house that for the common good of the people of this country scales of compensation for brucellosis, tuberculosis and rabies be revised in the light of present-day prices. I believe it was about 30 years ago that the present law was placed on the statute books. In that time we have experienced an inflation of more than 75 per cent. As hon. members may know, a farmer today receives compensation amounting to $40 for a grade animal and $100 for a purebred animal. These prices for purebred or grade animals would, as anyone in the business knows, be very small compensation and might in some cases force a farmer out of breeding good dairy cattle. When one considers further that losses are likely to be under five per cent the


amount involved to the country would not be great and might save some young farmers for agriculture.
I wonder if I might ask hon. members of this parliament to give this matter their earnest attention, to the end that this house may come up with the best approach to the problem of rabies and a proper evaluation of compensation when animals have to be destroyed. Further, I would suggest that there should be free vaccination clinics for the protection of human beings in all epidemic areas for dogs and that further consideration be given to the provision of free vaccination of all herds in pasture in such areas.


Leon David Crestohl: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. My point of order is not raised with the intention to be critical, but merely to draw to your attention the fact that some of our new colleagues in the house have been falling into an error which contravenes our standing orders. They have been referring to hon. members by name, and I think, Mr. Speaker, that if you would draw to their attention that under standing order No. 35 and citation No. 293 where it is indicated that while speaking an hon. member must not refer to another hon. member by name it would be a timely reminder of the correct procedure. I know the error has been made in good faith because our new colleagues have probably not had the time in which to become as familiar with the rules as they might be. But I am drawing this matter to your attention in order that we may not slip into a contravention of the rules.


Mr. McIntosh:: On the point of order, Mr. Speaker, I believe we have all heard hon. members and, possibly, the last speaker, use the expression "follow John" and so on. Is that not referring to hon. members by their names?


Mr. Speaker:: The house does not ordinarily consider questions of order unless they are specific. Of course, the practice to which the hon. member for Cartier has referred is a well-established practice, and I know all hon. members will endeavour to observe it.


Mr. H. M. Batten (Humber-St. George's):: Mr. Speaker, I should like first of all to extend to you my sincere congratulations. I suppose you have been hearing congratulations from so many corners of the house and for such an extended period of time that, maybe, they are getting just a little monotonous. I do think, however, that this would not be the right way to feel, because everybody across this country would like to express their congratulations to you on being elected Speaker of this house and first commoner, and I believe the most appropriate

way for them to do it is to express their felicitations through the member who represents them here. It is rarely, I suppose, that a member of the House of Commons has an opportunity to congratulate an hon. member twice in a row for having been elected Speaker.
I also offer my congratulations to the Deputy Speaker and to the hon. member for Spadina (Mr. Rea) as well as to the mover and seconder of the address in reply to the speech from the throne. The hon. member for Quebec-Montmorency (Mr. Lafreniere) and the hon. member for Yukon (Mr. Nielsen) have discharged the responsibilities given to them with honour to themselves, with credit to their ridings and also with honour to the House of Commons of which they are members.
At this time I am going to confine my remarks to a few problems that affect my own riding. For the benefit of new members may I just say briefly that my riding consists of the west coast of Newfoundland or that part of the island which is open to the gulf of St. Lawrence. In the southern part of my riding the industries are farming, fishing and logging; in the central part, papermaking, fishing and logging; and in the northern part fishing and logging. These are the chief industries and I would like to speak about the fishing industry in that part of Newfoundland for a moment.
We are sometimes inclined to measure the importance of an industry in relation to the proportion it happens to be of the total industry in the country itself. I believe it is more significant to measure the importance of an industry in relation to its proportion of the industry in the area in which it operates. Fishing is an important industry in Canada and of course it is a particularly important one in Newfoundland. The fishing industry in that province represents a large percentage of the total fishing industry in Canada. For example, in 1956 the total landed catch of fish in Canada was about
2,000	million pounds of which 27.7 per cent came from the province of Newfoundland. Or if we go back to 1954 we find that of the total landed weight of fish in Canada the percentage caught in Newfoundland was 29.8, in British Columbia 29.4, in Nova Scotia 19.2, in New Brunswick 10.4, in Quebec 4.5, in Ontario 2.3 and in other sections of the country 4.4.
I think these figures serve to illustrate my point that the fishing industry of Newfoundland is an important segment of the total fishing industry in Canada. The industry in that province can be improved to
The Address-Mr. Batten
the point where more people will be engaged in it and in addition to this more people will be able to receive a decent return for the work they do in the fishing industry. In order to accomplish this an effort has to be made by the fishermen themselves, by those who cure and process fish and also by the executives of the fishing industry and of course there must be great effort made by the provincial and federal governments.
There are many ways in which the federal government could assist the fishing industry in Newfoundland but at the moment I am going to briefly discuss just three. In order to engage in the fishing industry in my riding which, as I said, is open to the gulf of the St. Lawrence and a large portion of which has a straight shore it is necessary for the fishermen to use large, heavy boats. If they are to be efficient in their work they must be able to care for their boats other than by having to beach them at night and launch them again the next morning. In other words it is necessary to have harbour facilities which the fishermen cannot provide for themselves so they will be efficient in the industry of which they are a part.
Over the years a great deal has been done and much is being done at present and if we continue providing these harbour facilities the fishermen will increase their efficiency. If in the next year or two we can accomplish what has been achieved in my riding this year in terms of providing facilities for the fishermen I will be extremely grateful to the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Green).
There is a great need for attention being paid on the part of the federal government to markets for the fish industry. At the moment there are some disquieting rumours concerning our markets in Jamaica and Italy. Our Jamaican market is likely to be taken over in large part by the industry in Iceland. I suppose the reason for that is that Iceland has a lower cost economy and its fishing industry is subsidized. If it is likely that we are to lose some of our markets I would propose that the federal government give higher price supports than are now being given to Newfoundland fish or give that support to which the Prime Minister (Mr. Diefenbaker) referred as reported in the Toronto Star of February 28, 1958. He is reported to have said at Charlottetown:
He told the audience of more than 1,100 which crammed the hall above the Roloway Bowling Club that the government was now considering providing the same kind of price support legislation for the fishing industry as it had for the farmers, although he acknowledged there were "difficulties in the way".
398	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. Batten
Or again, as reported in the Halifax Chronicle Herald of March 25, 1958, the Prime Minister said:
His government, he told the audience, was moving to stabilize prices for farm produce, and consideration is now being given to bring about "the application", on a similar basis, of this measure as it affects fish products.
Or yet again, as he is reported to have said by the Halifax Chronicle Herald of March 26, 1958:
"The great difficulty for the fisherman", he said, "is that the price of things he must buy is going up, while the price of what he has to sell is not keeping pace. We have in mind to provide for

the fisherman, legislation similar to that provided for agriculture."
Mr. Speaker, as I am about to move on to another subject may I call it ten o'clock?
On motion of Mr. Batten the debate was adjourned.



BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

Mr, Chevrier:: Mr. Speaker, I take it we shall continue with this debate tomorrow?


Howard Charles Green: Yes, Mr. Speaker.


[Stage Direction]
At ten o'clock the house adjourned, without question put, pursuant to standing order.

[Stage Direction]
The following answer, deposited with the Clerk of the house, is printed in the official report of debates pursuant to standing order 39:

Mr. Fraser: 1. What is the total amount of war savings certificates that have not been cashed as of February 1, 1958?
Question
2. Has the government advertised in the press for the names of those people who have not cashed certificates?
Answer by: Hon. Donald M. Fleming (Minister
of Finance):
1.	$4,107,675.
2.	The names of those who have not cashed certificates have not been advertised but general advertisements indicating that all certificates had matured together with instructions for redemption were carried in all daily and weekly newspapers in June, 1954.

Friday, May 23, 1958