1953-11-17

Right Hon. L. S. St. Laurent (Prime Minister):: Mr. Speaker, in order to comply
with the request made during the debate yesterday I beg leave to table two copies, in English and French, of the order in council P.C. 1755, dealing with the application of the Canadian Pacific Air Lines and the report, annexed to the order in council, that has been made to the governor in council by the air transport board.



TORNADOES


Hon. W. E. Harris (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration):: Mr. Speaker, the government has been giving consideration to the question of assisting those who suffered loss by reason of the tornadoes, which caused considerable damage in western Ontario on May 21 and May 24, 1953.
The counties of Lambton, Middlesex, Oxford, Perth and Huron set up county relief committees to which donations were made by individuals and municipal corporations. The provincial government has assured a grant being one-half the amount which came into the hands of the county relief committees, from these two sources. Donations totalled $210,425 and the municipal grants $64,500, which means that the provincial grant would amount to $137,462. The Canadian disaster relief fund announced last week that it would contribute $100,000 to the relief funds and this is to announce that this government will contribute the sum of $137,462 for the benefit of those who suffered loss to dwellings and farm buildings, being a like amount to that contributed by the province of Ontario.
Details of the method of payment will be worked out with the Canadian disaster relief fund and the county committees.



UNITED KINGDOM FINANCING, 1953 APPROVAL OF AGREEMENT RESPECTING PAYMENT OF OUTSTANDING BALANCE OF LOANS

Hon. Douglas Abbott (Minister of Finance) moved: that the house go into committee at
the next sitting to consider the following resolution:
That it is expedient to introduce a measure to approve the financial agreement between the government of Canada and the government of the United Kingdom, signed at Ottawa on the thirteenth day of August, 1953, respecting the repayment of the outstanding balance of the loans made to the government of the United Kingdom under the War Appropriation (United Kingdom Financing) Act, 1942.
He said: His Excellency the Governor General, having been made acquainted with the subject matter of this resolution, recommends it to the consideration of the house.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.


Hon. Brooke Claxton (Minister of National Defence) moved: that the house go into committee at the next sitting to consider the following resolution:
That it is expedient to introduce a measure to amend the Defence Services Pension Act to provide for the payment over a period of years of succession duties on the pensions of widows and children and to make certain minor adjustments in the present law; also to amend the National Defence Act to authorize the sale of material under section 11 of the act to international welfare organizations, to provide for a credit of rebates of duties and taxes upon material sold under that section, to make possible more effective administration of the estates of servicemen who die out of Canada, and to make certain amendments with regard to persons accompanying Canadian forces; also to make an amendment to the Visiting Forces (North Atlantic Treaty) Act consequential upon the enactment of the Crown Liability Act; also to amend the Senate and House of Commons Act in relation to time spent by members of the House of Commons on military service; and also to amend the Canadian Forces Act, 1950, to enable members of the regular forces who served in the Korean theatre in the special force to count the time so served for all purposes under the Defence Services Pension Act.
He said: His Excellency the Governor General, having been made acquainted with the subject matter of this resolution, recommends it to the consideration of the house.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.


Hon. Jean Lesage (Minister of Resources and Development) moved: that the house go

Proposed Legislation
into committee at the next sitting to consider the following resolution:
That it is expedient to introduce a measure to amend the National Parks Act to empower the governor in council to authorize the minister to enter into agreements for the development, operation and maintenance in a park of public utility services, and for a supply of water for domestic purposes; also to provide for rights of way for telephone, telegraph and electrical transmission lines; and also to clarify the authority to establish and survey townsites, subdivisions and cemeteries; and further to clarify and expand the power to issue leases and licences of park lands and to authorize the issue of certificates for plots in park cemeteries; and finally to authorize the governor in council to make regulations for use of park lands as camp grounds.
He said: His Excellency the Governor General, having been made acquainted with the subject matter of this resolution, recommends it to the consideration of the house.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.


Jean Lesage: that the house go into committee at the next sitting to consider the following resolution:
That it is expedient to introduce a measure to amend the acts respecting the Northwest Territories to provide-(a) that the governor in council may, after the expiration of two years from the return of the writs of election, dissolve the council and cause a new council to be elected and appointed;
(b)	that the governor in council may make regulations respecting reindeer similar to those already included in chapter 331 of the Revised Statutes, 1952;
(c)	that the living allowances payable to members of the council be raised to $25 as already provided in the said chapter 331; (d) that the governor in council may appoint a member of the council in place of an elected member who resigns; (e) for clarification of provisions of the acts relating to indemnity and living allowances; and further (f) that the act be amended by including therein provisions relating to the holding of land, similar to the provisions now in the Yukon Act.
He said: His Excellency the Governor General, having been made acquainted with the subject matter of this resolution, recommends it to the consideration of the house.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.


Right Hon. C. D. Howe (Minister of Trade and Commerce) moved: that the house go into committee at the next sitting to consider the following resolution:
That it is expedient to introduce a measure to amend the Atomic Energy Control Act to provide

for the carrying on of research and production activities in the atomic energy field by a minister or by companies reporting to a minister; and also for the enlargement of the atomic energy control board to permit representation on it of governmental or other bodies likely to be especially concerned with atomic energy matters.
He said: His Excellency the Governor General, having been made acquainted with the subject matter of this resolution, recommends it to the consideration of the house.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.


Hon. Hugues Lapointe (Minister of Veterans Affairs) moved: that the house go into committee at the next sitting to consider the following resolution:
That it is expedient to introduce a measure to amend the Children of War Dead (Education Assistance) Act to extend the benefits of the act with respect to certain children presently excluded.
He said:	His Excellency the Governor
General, having been made acquainted with the subject matter of this resolution, recommends it to the consideration of the house.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.


Hugues Lapointe: that the house go into committee at the next sitting to consider the following resolution:
That it is expedient to introduce a measure to amend the War Service Grants Act to extend the time limit for the availability on re-establishment credit; also to extend certain benefits of the act to additional beneficiaries; and further to provide for an extension of time whereby certain veterans may take advantage of the Veterans Insurance Act.
He said:	His Excellency the Governor
General, having been made acquainted with the subject matter of this resolution, recommends it to the consideration of the house.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Claude Ellis (Regina City):: I should like to direct a question to the Postmaster General. Since notice of the question was sent to his office I wonder if his parliamentary assistant could answer the question. Has the

Postmaster General received protests from certain postal workers in the city of Regina respecting the delay in introducing the five-day forty-hour week for all such employees and also the delay in granting salary increases? Will the government rectify this situation in the near future?


Mr. T. A. M. Kirk (Parliameniary Assislant to the Postmaster General):: Mr. Speaker, notice may have been sent to the office but it has not yet reached my desk. I shall be very glad at the first opportunity to give any information on the subject that it is possible to give.



WAR VETERANS ALLOWANCES


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. G. R. Pearkes (Esquimalt-Saanich):: should like to direct a question to the Minister of Veterans Affairs, notice of which I have sent. Since the last parliament prorogued have any limitations been placed on the casual earnings which recipients of war veterans allowance are permitted to claim as an exemption from permissible income?


Hugues Lapointe: 1 must say I have not received notice of the question. However, I believe that last night during the course of the debate the hon. member for Royal made a remark to that effect. It has not been brought to my notice that any limitation has been placed on casual earnings. A clearer definition of casual earnings in instructions sent to the district authorities may have been so interpreted. I am having the whole matter looked into today but I can assure my hon. friend that it has not been the intention of the department or of the government at any time to place any restrictions on the application of the war veterans allowance.


George Randolph Pearkes: Will the minister report later?


Hugues Lapointe: I will be very glad to report to the house.



EXTERNAL AFFAIRS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Solon E. Low (Peace River):: I should like to direct a question to the Secretary of State for External Affairs, a copy of which I have sent him. It occurred to me after I had sent it that I might better have sent it to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. In case that is true, perhaps he
Inquiries of the Ministry would like to take the question as notice. Will the minister inform the house what action has been taken with respect to the plea of former Polish consul Michal Krycun and his wife to be granted political asylum in Canada?


Hon. L. B. Pearson (Secretary of State for External Affairs):: The former consul in question has political asylum now in the sense that he has been granted non-immigrant status for a period of six months. At the end of that period the position can be reviewed and the non-immigrant status renewed and eventually converted into residential status. That is the position now.



IGOR GOUZENKO


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Lester Bowles Pearson: Mr. Speaker, yesterday, in response to a question from the hon. member for Prince Albert concerning Igor Gouzenko, the Prime Minister stated that he was not aware that any further representations on this matter had been received from the United States Department of State for Mr. Gouzenko to be interviewed but that he would inquire of me whether that was the situation. I should now like to confirm that, up to the present, we have received no further representations from the United States to interview this man.
I believe that it would be useful if I took this opportunity to say a few words on this matter because yesterday the hon. member for Prince Albert asked if the government was now giving reconsideration to the original request for an interview. As hon. members may know, the government on October 29 received a request from the United States government transmitting a request from Mr. Robert Morris, counsel for the United States Senate internal security subcommittee, to interview Igor Gouzenko in this country. These requests arose out of a statement which Mr. Gouzenko was reported to have made to the reporter of the Chicago Tribune to the effect that he had some further information, and that he would be glad to appear before the United States Senate subcommittee. When this report appeared in the press the Royal Canadian Mounted Police immediately interviewed Mr. Gouzenko to ascertain whether he had such additional information since, if he did, this information should have been passed on to the Canadian authorities and that part of it, if any, of interest to the appropriate United States authorities would have been forwarded to them. The interview
80	HOUSE OF
Inquiries of the Ministry was made by the R.C.M.P. before the request was received from the United States state department-that is, the request which I have just mentioned.
When interviewed, Mr. Gouzenko informed the R.C.M.P. that he had no further information to offer other than that which had already been reported by the royal commission some years ago. He further stated to the R.C.M.P. that he had been misquoted by the Chicago Tribune, and he denied that he had criticized the manner in which his evidence had been used. In the circumstances the Canadian government, Mr. Speaker, considered that the reasons for Mr. Morris' request to interview Mr. Gouzenko had disappeared, having been based on a misunderstanding of the position.
I might add, Mr. Speaker, that any information from Mr. Gouzenko which could have been of value to the United States authorities had originally been forwarded to them as soon as it became available. We have cooperated in the past and will, of course, in the future co-operate fully and in the proper manner with the United States government in these matters.



BERMUDA CONFERENCE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Donald M. Fleming (Eglinton):: Mr. Speaker, may I ask the Prime Minister if the Canadian government has been consulted or informed in relation to the agenda of the forthcoming conference at Bermuda of the heads of government of the United Kingdom, the United States and France? If so, have any representations been made by the Canadian government on that subject?


Louis Stephen St-Laurent: No non-confidential information
has been transmitted to us. Of course, in connection with these matters dispatches are received that are marked secret, and which we have to consider as such, until or unless we get authority to make their contents public. There have been none about which we are in a position to make a public statement.



CRIMINAL CODE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Harold E. Winch (Vancouver East):: should like to direct a question to the Minister of Justice. Has the minister any intention of recommending to' this house a reference to >a committee of the house, the appointment of a special committee of the house or the appointment of a commission to study and


report on the important matter of capital punishment in Canada?


Hon. Stuart S. Garson (Minister of Justice):: The subject matter to which my hon. friend refers, Mr. Speaker, is one of government policy upon which we had thought we might make an announcement when we were discussing the second reading of the bill to amend the Criminal Code. The statement had been made in the last parliament that we were to consider the alternative courses to which the hon. member has referred, and we have been considering them, especially in the light of the rather voluminous report that was recently made by the British royal commission upon the same subject matter. Our analysis of that report is not yet complete, and therefore we think it wise to postpone the announcement of our own method of reference until the second reading of the bill to amend the Criminal Code.



INQUIRY AS TO ESTIMATED DELIVERY QUOTA FOR FARMERS

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. G. H. Castleden (Yorklon):: In view of the urgent need for the people of the prairies to have some indication of their probable income for the next six or eight months, Mr. Speaker, will the Minister of Trade and Commerce give the house an indication, based on present departmental export estimates, of the grain delivery quota which farmers on the prairies may be permitted to make by the end of the crop year, July 31 next?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Mr. Speaker, an estimate has been made, which I think is reasonably accurate, of the cash income of the prairie farmers from the Canadian wheat board for wheat, oats and barley for the calendar year 1953. That income stands at $1,104 million, which is the highest cash income ever enjoyed by the farmers of western Canada for these crops. I am not a prophet, and I cannot guess what the quotas will be. Those are fixed by the wheat board without reference to the government, and therefore I think the indication of income I have given will perhaps be sufficient for the hon. member's purpose.



LABOUR CONDITIONS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. J. W. Noseworthy (York South):: May I
direct a question to the Minister of Labour,

and since I did not send him a copy of the question the answer can be given today or at an early date. The question is this. In view of the government's interest in the gold mining industry, will the minister tell the house what is being done or has been done by his department to assist in the settlement of the gold miners' strike in northern Ontario and Quebec?


Hon. Milton F. Gregg (Minister of Labour):: I have not had notice of the question, Mr. Speaker, but I can say at once to my hon. friend that since the gold mining industry comes within the jurisdiction of the provincial government, and since I have had no communication from the provincial government in this connection, my department has taken no action in the matter.



INQUIRY AS TO LAY-OFFS AT VALC ARTIER AND QUEBEC ARSENALS

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. J. W. Dufresne (Quebec Wesi):: I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Defence Production. In view of the lay-off of hundreds of employees at Valcartier and Quebec arsenals, will the minister tell the house if their employment was temporary, and when these employees will be reemployed?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Mr. Speaker, I have received no notice of this question. I am not aware of any extensive lay-offs at Quebec; in fact, I had understood employment is increasing. However, I shall be glad to look into the matter and if there is any information I think the house should have I shall be glad to communicate it to the house.



SPEECH FROM THE THRONE


[Stage Direction]
The house resumed, from Monday, November 16, consideration of the motion of Mr. A. H. Hollingworth for an address to His Excellency the Governor General in reply to his speech at the opening of the session, and the amendment thereto of Mr. Drew, and the amendment to the amendment of Mr. Coldwell.
Mr. F. S. Zaplitny (Dauphin):: Mr. Speaker, when the house rose yesterday evening I had just presented some facts in connection with the economic position of agriculture in this country and indicated there was a serious downward trend in the income of agriculture in the past two years. This trend, sir, is more noticeable, particularly in the livestock industry today, and I believe that no time
The Address-Mr. Zaplitny should be lost in instituting action to provide a more solid base and greater stabilization for the industry and the production of livestock. I would like therefore to put on record three recommendations, made by the prairie farm unions, of which I believe the government is already aware.
They are as follows:
(1)	The establishment of a national livestock marketing board, upon which the producers from each province will he adequately represented, to be charged with tile responsibility of setting and maintaining a fair and adequate floor price on livestock with fair price spreads for the different grades.
(2)	The adoption of a policy under which the board would establish a price for the products probably required for consumption in Canada, based on a proper and fair relationship to other goods and services within our Canadian economy, the balance to be disposed of in world, markets to the best advantage of the producer.
(3)	The provision for the necessary additional cold storage facilities in western Canada, made available to the livestock industry on much the same basis as government terminal elevators are made available for grain, as part of a national program of orderly marketing of much needed foodstuffs, in the interest of both producers and consumers.
A livestock marketing board is not a particularly new subject in the house. It has been urged upon the government repeatedly, particularly by the former member for Selkirk. However, at this time I think there is more reason for the existence of such a board than there ever was before. As I have pointed out, the sharp decline in returns on livestock is one of the reasons; and there is also the additional and quite important one in the fact that at the present time livestock producers, particularly the producers of beef, have no protection whatsoever in the grading or handling of their product. They do not have the protection given the grain producers through the board of grain commissioners, whereby a proper grading is guaranteed.
As the situation now stands, strange as it may sound it is quite possible to ship a choice steer and have it graded as an old cow; and in such event there is no one to whom the producer can complain. There is no authority at all for the protection of the producer in this matter of grading, and there is evidence to show that in that respect advantage is being taken of the producer.
There are some further recommendations I should like to place upon the record, based upon the study of the situation I have made. I believe that these would have the effect of stabilizing farm income and providing a better position in the future.


Mr. Wood:: Does the hon. member say that there is no grading of livestock, that a steer could be graded as a cow? Has he had any

The Address-Mr. Zaplitny experience in the marketing of cattle through the union stockyards at Winnipeg? I refer to the stockyards at St. Boniface.


Frederick Samuel Zaplitny: No, I have not had personal experience in marketing livestock at the stockyards.


Robert James Wood: Then why do you make the charge? Why does the hon. member say that a steer can be graded as a cow?


Frederick Samuel Zaplitny: Of course I was using a figure of speech.


Mr. Argue:: They would probably call it a canner.


Frederick Samuel Zaplitny: I would hardly imagine that there would be persons who would not know a steer from a cow-although, if one might judge from what he hears at times in the house, he might come to that conclusion.
The situation is simply this, that there is no statutory protection, no legislation to provide for the protection of the producer, so far as the grading of his product is concerned; and I suggest that provision should be made. If the hon. member who asked the question does not think any such protection is required, then of course he is at liberty to say so, and I shall be glad to hear him.
I wish now to move on to another recommendation, and that is that a full investigation should be made into the prices of farm implements and farm fuels. The situation today is that while the income on farm products has been declining sharply, prices of farm implements and fuels have continued to rise. Only recently fuel prices took another upward jump. This places the producer in a squeeze where, eventually, if the trend continues, he will not be able to produce any longer, because his costs of production will catch up to his returns and reach a point where farming will no longer be economical.
However, in making such an investigation- and in what I am about to say I realize my proposal is not new, because it has been made before even in parliament-I would emphasize that I am not interested in a committee or commission or investigation set up for the purpose of creating the impression that something is being done about the problem. That has been done before. I have sat on committees, as I am sure have other members in the house, which spent weeks and months, during which time they did some very valuable research work. But their findings and recommendations are still gathering dust on the shelves of parliament. That is not the kind of investigation in which the farmers are interested. We do not ask for


a whitewashing job: we want an investigation which, if it discloses exploitation or profiteering, will bring forth prompt remedial action. If it is found that profiteering exists, then this parliament should have the courage to reimpose price controls immediately and, if necessary, provide subsidies in order to bring prices back into a proper alignment.
I believe the people of this country are tired and resentful of the fact that there have been numerous commissions and committees set up to investigate a subject; then, when they have done so, and have made certain findings and recommendations, nothing more has been heard about them. If we are going to have an investigation, let us have a genuine one, and let it be followed by appropriate action.
I would also recommend that, as one of the means of keeping the farm population in proper ratio to that of the nation, industry should be introduced to and extended in the prairie provinces. We now have in those provinces some manufacturing and processing; but the possibilities are much greater than can even be imagined at this stage. We have on the prairies many of the raw materials which would be required for the processing and manufacturing of many of those things for which there is a ready market right in those communities. To give an example, I would refer to the manufacturing and processing of vegetable oils, particularly linseed oil, which is so important in the paint industry; and I would also refer to the manufacture of glass, which requires a special type of sand. And, for the information of anyone who might be interested in this particular industry, I would announce that right in my own constituency we have one of the finest deposits of silica sand to be found anywhere in western Canada. We have also some of the finest deposits of pottery clay discovered anywhere in the west.
There are many other raw materials which make it possible to start industries and to provide steady employment, as well as to give economic balance to the economy of the west. At the moment we are too dependent upon production from the soil. There are times when the slack could be taken up, and seasonal employment provided for thousands of people who today have to go either to British Columbia in the west or to the eastern cities to find work in the winter months.
I would point out further that in Manitoba we have one of the best copper producing areas in the whole of Canada. Flin Flon, the copper capital of the west, is a centre which is growing by leaps and bounds. The production of copper has been increasing, and

has been brought to a greater degree of refinement. It would be quite feasible to establish manufacturing industries near the source of supply, and they should be as close as possible thereto.
Lastly, I should like to recommend, as a means of stimulating the proportion of rural population, loans to prospective young farmers, for the purpose of making it possible for them to begin farming. I am quite aware that we have the Canadian farm loan board, and that farm improvement loans are available. It has been the experience of those who have had anything to do with them that the persons who require the loans most are the ones least likely to be able to get them, because the loans are based upon a certain amount of collateral and security which quite often the young man who wishes to buy a farm 'or equip his farm simply cannot provide. It is, again, one of those things like bank loans. It is easy to borrow an umbrella when the sun is shining. Those who do not need the loans can go in and get them, but those who wish to start farming have no collateral, and perhaps no security to offer, and they find that they are simply left out in the cold.
I realize that if we went further and were more lenient in providing loans there would be an element of risk, but whatever little risk would be involved would be far outweighed by the advantage of keeping these young men who are interested in farming on the farms and giving them an opportunity to start on their own in developing the western prairie provinces to a greater extent.
Some people in Canada may be under the impression that there is no arable land left undeveloped on the prairies. I would recommend that they take a trip through the west some time, particularly through the northern portions of the three prairie provinces, and they will find out how wrong they are. There is still a great deal of desirable land to be put under cultivation. Thousands of young men are desirous of going into farming on their own but the prices of land and farm equipment have reached such a height that one must almost be wealthy to start farming, and of course the philosophy is, if you are already wealthy why start farming? A great deal more leniency should be shown. Perhaps an entirely new set-up should1 be established to provide loans for men who do not have any collateral, but who are good moral risks and can be set up on their own.
This does not exhaust the possibilities in connection with agriculture, sir, but I will not prolong this discussion at this time. Before concluding I would simply like to make
The Address-Mr. Stick one reference to a statement that was made here this afternoon by the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration (Mr. Harris). In view of that statement, which is very interesting to me, as it is to hon. members near me, who are familiar with the flood losses that I discussed yesterday, I am wondering whether the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner) would be prepared to make a similar statement in connection with the problems we have out there.


Mr. L. T. Stick (Trinity-Conception):: Before going into the subject matter that I wish to discuss today, may I, Mr. Speaker, convey to you my congratulations on your unanimous election to preside over the deliberations of this house. Those of us who sat in the house when you occupied the Speaker's chair during the last session know that your elevation is an honour well deserved, and I wish to convey to you, sir, my very sincere wishes.
I should like also to take this opportunity to convey to the mover (Mr. Hollingworth) and the seconder (Mr. Villeneuve) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne my congratulations on their splendid effort. Some of us know what an ordeal it is to stand up in this house for the first time and address this gathering. That they acquitted themselves as they did shows that they have a future before them in this house.
Much discussion and much criticism of the length of the debate on the speech from the throne have been expressed in the press and elsewhere. It is said that this debate takes up too much of the time of the house, and therefore costs the taxpayers of this country too much money. There are two sides to this question, as there are usually two sides to every question. It is one of the opportunities given to private members to address the house and to bring to the attention of the house, and therefore to the attention of the Canadian nation, local problems for which hon. members are directly responsible, and also problems which affect the whole of the nation.
It has been said on many occasions that we should adopt the practice of Westminster. I submit that Westminster is one parliament and this is another; that the problems they have to deal with in England are not at all similar to the problems we have to deal with in Canada. This is a vast land occupied by a population which is scattered over three or four thousand miles from coast to coast. Our problems are vast, and this gives an opportunity to private members to bring before the house and the Canadian people some of the difficulties with which they have to deal.

The Address-Mr. Stick And it is vitally necessary to have that opportunity if we are to have a rounded out picture of Canada as it is today. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I make no apology for talking about conditions in my own province and bringing to the attention of this house some of the problems which we have faced in the past and which we are facing today.
I refer now to the fishery problems in Newfoundland' and in the Atlantic provinces. For four hundred and fifty odd years Newfoundland has lived by its fisheries. It was the discovery of great quantities of fish along our shores which brought people to settle in Newfoundland and attracted fishermen from France, Portugal and other European countries. What was true four hundred and fifty years ago is true today. But conditions have changed. We now find that the old methods by which we caught, cured and marketed fish are no longer satisfactory, and if we persist in this method our fishermen will not receive adequate rewards from which they can get a decent living.
It is not a new problem with us in Newfoundland; it has been with us for many, many years. The time has come, Mr. Speaker, when a different policy must be instituted by this federal government and by our provincial government so that the situation which faces us today can be met and the difficulties overcome, and this industry restored to the rightful place it should have in the Canadian economy. Old methods must change. The fishing industry, like all industries, if it is to be successful, must keep pace with modern scientific methods, with modern methods of marketing. If the industry fails in that respect, then the tens of thousands of our fishermen and their families will be living at such a low level of subsistence that something drastic will have to be done about it.
For many centuries our traditional markets were in Europe, in Brazil and in the West Indies. Prior to the first world war those people could afford to pay a decent price for our product and our fishermen received decent wages for their catch and they were able to carry on. But two world wars have impoverished those people. They cannot now pay a price sufficiently high to give our people a decent living. When you realize that today our fishermen receive less than a cent a pound for their fish you will understand that this cheap food at such a price is not able to give them a decent standard of living. That is the condition.
There are signs that the authorities both here in Ottawa and at home are aware of the problem which faces us today. It is gratifying

to note that in the speech from the throne reference has been made to this problem. It is also gratifying to note that a serious effort is being made at least to grapple with this problem. As I said a few moments ago it is not a new problem. It certainly is not a new problem-it is an old problem which requires new and up-to-date methods of handling. Far too long have the fisheries of this country been neglected. We have perhaps heard overmuch about wheat in this house-and quite rightly. Members who come from the wheat-growing prairies bring this matter to the proper authorities of government and the whole house and we do not object at all. It is their duty. However, I think it is time for those of us who come from the fishing areas to bring to the attention of the house problems regarding fishing.
The Department of Fisheries was known in the past as the "Cinderella" department of government. That day has now gone. It is no longer the Cinderella department of government; it is a very important department of government and it is high time that everyone in this house realized it. The fishing industry, since Newfoundland came into union, is worth something like $200 million a year. Neither this nor any other parliament can afford to neglect that industry. Something must be done.
I speak about this matter today and express my views about the problem which faces us in order to see if we cannot bring it to the attention of the house so that we may have the sympathetic consideration of all members of the house on all sides, so that our people not only of Newfoundland but of all the Atlantic provinces may have the better way of life to which they are entitled.
A change has taken place in fishing. The trend is to get away from the salt codfish and get into the fresh fish market. That is as it should be. When you lose your traditional markets, as we have lost and are losing them, you come into a period of transition where you have to change from one system to another. That period is a period of trial not only for those in authority but for those who prosecute the primary industry.
We have a market here in North America representing 170 million odd people. They need this fish and we have to see that we give it to them in a palatable form so that they will appreciate good food when they get it and ask for more. Furthermore, the population of North America-including Canada and the United States-is increasing at about three millions per year. There you have a continuing and growing market. It is up to the government and the industry together to see that this market is supplied with this nourishing food which comes from the sea. There is

a challenge, in the minds of the industry, to this government, the provincial governments and the fishing industry. If this challenge is met in the right way, in a very few years fishing problems will be solved and you will have a well-cared-for and contented fishing population. If the problems are not solved you will have a discontented people, and Canada cannot afford to have discontented people.
Our people back home are very much concerned with the situation as it presents itself to us today-and they are rightly concerned. We who stand up here and speak for our province are also concerned. Their general welfare is our first concern. So, Mr. Speaker,
I have no hesitation in saying what I say today and in appealing for sympathetic consideration of this problem by this house. I want the people of my province, and not only the people of my province but the people of all provinces, to be able to earn a decent living. They are entitled to that. We do not want to be pampered, sir; neither do we want anything that is not our just right. So, when we ask that this government here play its part in conjunction with our provincial government and with the fishing industry we are asking for something within our rights-and we make no excuse for asking for it.
I am glad to note, since I came to Ottawa for this session of parliament, that serious efforts are now being made to tackle this problem and to explore possibilities of better marketing so that our people may reap from the industry the benefit to which they are entitled.
I do not want to herald the subject. I could tell you tales of heroism, and tales of tragedy through which our people have passed many years ago, but I will say this. Over the doors of the entrance to this parliament are the words:
The wholesome sea is at her gates . . .
Her gates both east and west
Whoever was responsible for those words carved in the stone certainly knew something about the sea. The whole meaning of those words is summed up in the word "wholesome". Everything that comes from the sea is wholesome. You go to the sea in summer for your health. When you want to restore tired nerves you go and imbibe the breezes which come from the sea and which invigorate your mind, your body and your soul. You reap the benefit of them and you come away refreshed.
What applies by the seaside applies equally well to what comes from the sea and out of the sea. The food which comes from the sea is nourishing food which the people of this country need for a well-balanced diet.
The Address-Mr. Stick So, the fishing industry of which I speak needs encouragement. It needs looking into, and the problems concerned with it need to be solved. In solving those problems we will help ourselves to a better way of life. Yes; "the wholesome sea is at her gates". It is a wholesome and a nourishing diet we get from the sea. It is up to the fishing industry with assistance from the government to give the Canadian people this nourishing diet. I hope that the plans which were announced will prove successful.
What we need is a new fishing policy at least for the Atlantic provinces. I have no criticism, or very little criticism, of the work of the fisheries department in the past, except perhaps to say that in the past the policy has been to do only what they had to do. If that is going to be the future policy of our fisheries department it will fail. What we need today is an enlightened, energetic, progressive policy, not afraid to take legitimate risks. If we believe in the future of this industry and if we set our minds to it we will solve the problems; but if we take the attitude that we can only do what we have to do, then we will not solve those problems and they will go on as they have done for the past few years.
As I said before, there are signs that at last the problems with regard to the fisheries are beginning to be seriously taken into account. Those of us who come from fishing constituencies will be watching the progress very closely; and we shall be taking a keener interest in it than we have perhaps taken in the past in order that we may play our part here as Canadians worthy of the trust that sent us here.
I have one more matter to bring to the attention of this house, Mr. Speaker, and it is with a great deal of regret that I mention the subject. On a number of occasions in this house I have stated my faith in this country and I have stated the reasons for our coming into union. I do not want ever again to be obliged to stand up in this house and to defend the union which took place a few short years ago between Canada and Newfoundland. But when I read articles such as this one which I shall quote in a moment- in a respectable paper published in Canada and one that is read from coast to coast- I must take exception. It is taken from Toronto Saturday Night of recent date under the heading "Ottawa Letter". It reads as follows. Just listen to this:
Predictions made at the time of Newfoundland's entry to confederation, that it would provide Canadian governments with as many headaches as it did British governments, are coming true. Some years after William of Orange ascended the throne of

The Address-Mr.. Stick Britain, the importunate demands of the Scottish people and their spokesman, the Duke of Hamilton, for financial and other kinds of help so exasperated him that one day he cried out, "I wish to God that Scotland were 1,000 miles away and had the Duke of Hamilton as its King". Unless Mr. Smallwood's ministry can set the island's economic house in order, one of these days Mr, St. Laurent will be saying, "I wish to God that Newfoundland were 1,000 miles away and that Mr. Smallwood or Mr. Pickersgill were its King".
That may be funny. It may be funny to some hon. members but it is certainly not funny to us. Mr. Smallwood does not need me to defend him. He is well able to take care of himself. Whatever thoughts we may have about his policy with regard to Newfoundland, let me say this: he is working day and night to improve the condition of our people.
The Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent) does not need me to defend him nor to defend his action when he brought about union. I want to put the record straight on this matter. In all my association with the Prime Minister, never once, by word or implication, has he expressed any regrets about our coming into union. I have travelled across this country from coast to coast and have met many thousands of Canadian people but I have not found anything of that nature.
We came into union honestly and sincerely. The terms of union were brought about by free democratic processes by free democratic peoples. Let me say here once and for all that we did not have to come here. We could have gone elsewhere if we had wanted to do so. We are not asking for anything that is not rightly our due as Canadian citizens. Furthermore, let me say that we are not second-class Canadian citizens either. When we read articles such as this one casting reflections on our people, it is time for people to stand up in this house and to refute such statements; and the only ones who can do it properly are those who come from Newfoundland. The gentleman who wrote that article is no great Canadian. I call him a petty Canadian and I hope he is here now listening to me.
Time and again I have stated that we want our rights under union. Furthermore, we are going to have them. We have no regrets in union. I hope this will be the last time I will have to rise and speak in this house as I am now doing. We want our rights and nothing more. As I say, we could have gone elsewhere but we did not do so because we wanted to keep our association within the commonwealth. But if articles like this one are continually being written, the result will be to create dissatisfaction among our people back home, and the effects may be bad.
CMr. Stick.]
I did not have the privilege of being born a Canadian. I therefore probably cannot feel for Canada as do other hon. members. But at least I am a loyal Canadian, and probably I am a great deal more loyal to Canada than are some who were privileged to be bom Canadians. I want to say now for the last time that this act of union was an act of faith on our part and on yours. As time goes on we hope that this act of faith will be cemented into acts of friendship whereby our two peoples can be as one, and whereby this country can be united as never before. Unless we have this unity, Canada cannot fulfil the high hopes which we have for her and the destiny which lies ahead.
Finally I want to say this. For many years and many centuries it was our proud boast that we were Britain's most ancient colony. I hope I may never live to see the day that I would regret helping to bring Newfoundland into union with Canada. However, I do hope that I shall live to see the day when we can change that proud boast, which we made for many years, and turn it into this sort of boast, namely, that we are Canada's newest and, I hope, most loyal province.


Mr. G. S. White (Hasiings-Fronienac):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to congratulate you on your election as Speaker of the twenty-second parliament. I regard it as a well deserved honour. From your actions in the past, which have been indicative of your good judgment, your fairness and your understanding of this house, I am sure that in the days to come you will be regarded as one of the best Speakers we have ever had.
I should like to mention, sir, that in the four counties which comprise my riding, namely Hastings, Peterborough, Addington and Frontenac there is at the present time a great mineral development going on. For some time past many Canadian companies have had exploration crews searching for iron and uranium. Much work has been done and much more work is planned for the future. Many claims have been staked. Some of the properties will soon be in development. The most outstanding one is the Bethlehem Steel Corporation development at the village of Marmora,
In December last the premier of Ontario and officials from the mines department visited the property, and on that occasion it was stated that well over $30 million would have to be expended before this iron mine could be brought into production. This large deposit was located by an aeromagnetic survey, and the huge expenditure of money necessarily being made by the company to bring the property into production is just another example of the risk that must be

taken by private enterprise in any mineral development. No doubt there are many other deposits of a similar nature in the same district, which is just on the edge of the preCambrian shield, and I suggest to the Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys (Mr. Prud-ham) that further surveys be made in the area.
Yesterday the Minister of Justice (Mr. Garson) gave a short report in the house on restrictive trade practices. It is interesting to note in this morning's press a report of proceedings in Toronto yesterday in which eight rubber companies pleaded guilty to the charge that they had conspired to fix prices over a fifteen-year period. But what is more interesting are certain remarks made by crown counsel, Mr. T. N. Phelan, Q.C., reported as follows:
Mr. Phelan claimed that the accused had maintained "exact, complete and meticulous control over prices and distribution, destroying every vestige of competition." At the same time, he said, the rubber industry enjoyed a protective tariff of never less than 22 j per cent.
I suggest to the Minister of Justice that he would also do well to look into the question of the price of gasoline in Canada. The average motorist is unable to understand or comprehend why gasoline costs so much more in Canada than it does across the line. Is it due to excessive taxes or profits? The same thing applies to all electrical goods and motor cars. Take the average electric stove, which consists simply of several sheets of metal covered with a type of enamel and serviced by not more than six elements. Yet the retail price is around $300 or more. The same applies to other electrical devices, such as washing machines, refrigerators, toasters and so on.
If you buy a motor car today you are in the super-luxury class. Are the high prices charged Canadians due to excessive taxes imposed by the government or are the manufacturers obtaining huge profits? In a recent matter that came through my law office I was amazed to find that the great Chrysler Corporation of Canada, which manufactures Chrysler, De Soto, Dodge and Plymouth cars, makes no warranty in the sale of their cars. They advised me in connection with this matter as follows:
You will appreciate that the sale of the vehicle is by the dealer and not by the manufacturer. Accordingly the manufacturer does not make any warranty or representation with respect to the vehicle.
In fact, under the terms of the purchase, any such representation or warranty is specifically excluded. I think that will come as a great surprise to the public, certainly as a surprise to the purchasers of motor cars
The Address-Mr. G. S. White because surely every purchaser would naturally feel that when he purchases a new motor car he is not only relying on the skill of the manufacturer of the car but is also relying on the fact that there is an implied warranty that the car is fit and proper and will give the service for which it is intended. But the Chrysler corporation made it very plain to me that no such warranty exists, and if someone is unlucky or unfortunate enough to purchase one of their cars which is defective, a car that is a "lemon", he is simply out of luck as far as the corporation is concerned.
The matter with which I was dealing pertained to a new 1953 De Soto which was apparently one of the first few hundred cars manufactured of a new model. It appeared that everything that could possibly be wrong was wrong with the car. Here are just a few of the things. From the start the car burned oil and it still burns oil. The trunk was useless because it could not be locked. The lid of the trunk was always up. New locks were installed and it still would not work. The trunk accumulates dust, and puddles when it rains.
A new gas tank had to be installed but it is still defective. The windshield wipers would not work. New ones were put in but they still would not work. It is interesting to note that when the man received the car two of the hub caps were yellow and two were red. The corporation took four months to change them. The clock on the car did not work for eight months. The mechanism controlling the rear windows was put in upside down, and when it was adjusted the windows would not stay shut. The two rear doors were not adjusted properly and one had to squeeze into the car. The front seat would not remain locked in position. The windshield wipers would not wipe the glass clean, probably owing to a defect in the glass. The steering gear made most peculiar noises which were not very comforting to the driver. The fenders, hood and doors were not fitted properly, leaving cracks through which you could insert your finger. There were rattles in the car by the dozen which simply could not be eliminated. There was some difficulty with the fan which could not be properly adjusted, and a few other minor difficulties that did not appear to make much difference.
It would appear that an important company such as Chrysler, having turned out a lemon of a car like this, would at least replace it with a new car in proper shape. The purchaser paid a very fancy price and instead of having a new car from which he and his family could derive some pleasure he has a perpetual headache, and he got the very
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The Address-Mr. G. S. White comforting information from this great corporation that it makes no warranty or representation of any kind as to the vehicle it manufactures. I hope that all purchasers of Chrysler products will take notice of the fact that this company makes no warranty of any kind and that the poor purchaser must look to the dealer for any remedy which he can get.
In the speech from the throne mention was made of veterans affairs but there was no indication that the government intends to increase the war veterans allowance. A press report relating to the brief submitted by the Legion to the Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent) and the cabinet a few days ago contains this information:
The Legion recommended that the basic rate of war veterans allowance be increased to $60 from $50 a month for a single veteran and to $120 from $80 a month for married persons.
The Legion also urged that ceilings on total permissible income under war veterans allowance be increased to $1,200 per year for a single recipient and $2,000 a year for married persons. The ceilings now are around $850 and $1,200 respectively. The brief said many war veteran recipients are suffering very real hardship under present basic rates and restrictive ceilings on total permissible income.
The Legion's suggested housing plan would permit veterans to build their own homes on city lots as well as on small rural holdings as provided now under the Veterans Land Act.
A question was asked the minister a few days ago as to whether or not he intended to set up a committee on veterans affairs. At that time he said the matter was still under review. This matter of veterans allowances has been before the house on many occasions.
I do not think any hon. member is going to disagree with the brief submitted by the Legion in which they ask for a basic rate of $50 a month for single veterans and $120 a month for married veterans.
The Minister of Veterans Affairs was asked a question today about casual earnings and I sincerely hope that it is not the intention of the government to reduce in any way the small casual earnings that are now permitted to veterans.
The brief goes on to say that another major recommendation dealt with pensions. It proposes that in cases where pension applicants are found to have disabilities resulting from injuries or diseases not recorded on medical examination at enlistment such injuries or diseases should be presumed to have occurred or had their inception after enlistment. But the pension board, with their great knowledge, are often and practically always able to find that the disability was incurred prior to enlistment, that it was not aggravated by war service and therefore the veteran is not entitled to a pension. The
[Mr. White (Hastings-Frontenac) .1

medical doctors on the pension board make that finding despite the fact that the veteran may have been and probably was A-l on enlistment after a very thorough and complete examination with X-rays.
It seems to me that in far too many cases that clause in the act which stated that the veteran shall have the benefit of the doubt does not apply. I have said before in this house, and I say again, that it should never be necessary for any veteran to have to go to his reeve or to his member of parliament or to anybody else to get his pension or other claim properly adjusted. I regret to say, Mr. Speaker, that in far too many cases that have come to my attention little if anything is done until the veteran's case is brought to me and then in some cases he is roundly abused as to why he went to his member of parliament.
The people of Canada want the veteran to have everything to which he is entitled, and no veteran should have to fight the whole pension board and a host of medical men. Too often when the veteran is called in for an examination he is treated as a lead-swinger and bluntly told to go home, there is nothing wrong with him. But the record shows that the pension board has made many mistakes in the past, and they will continue to make many mistakes in the future. I find that the veteran resents in many cases the very casual manner in which he receives his medical examination. Little or no attention is paid to the reports that he will produce from his home physician.
The matter of small holdings under the V.L.A. is preventing many veterans from receiving the benefit of this act because of the restriction in 'the act as to the number of acres held, and owing to the increase in assessments the veteran finds that he is often penalized in heavy taxes for the extra land that he must have in order to qualify under the act. There are many other matters relating to veterans affairs which in my opinion would warrant the minister setting up a committee on veterans affairs, and I hope that he will announce the setting up of such a committee.
The hon. member for York Centre (Mr. Hollingworth) in moving the adoption of the address, and to speaking of the result of the election, used these unfortunate words, which appear on page 13 of Hansard for November 13, 1953:
. . . the results showed the good common sense and the political maturity of the Canadian people from coast to coast.
Well, despite what the hon. member said, I would say to the government that in my riding the people showed good common sense

and political maturity in rejecting the policies of this government. By their vote they have registered a strong protest against high taxation, the loss of markets, and the waste and extravagance of this government and their drift to socialism and1 paternalism. During the election the government made every effort under the sun to convince the voters of my riding that it deserved their votes. They even went so far as to have the right hon. Minister of Trade and Commerce (Mr. Howe) and the Secretary of State for External Affairs (Mr. Pearson) speak in my riding, and I would like to take this opportunity of thanking the two ministers for their visit. I am only sorry they did not stay longer, because if they had I would have had several thousand more votes.
The Minister of Trade and Commerce, speaking at the village of Marmora, as reported in the Ontario Intelligencer of July 27, said:
Canada is not on the verge of losing her markets abroad. That flat statement was made here on Saturday by Et. Hon. C. D. Howe, Minister of Trade and Commerce and Minister of Defence Production.
It is rather unfortunate that when the minister was in the centre of a very fine agricultural district he did not go on to explain to the dairy producers, the cheese producers and all the other producers just where these markets are today. It would have been very interesting if he had explained to all these producers where they were going to sell their products. There seems to be an attitude on the part of many people that there is no need to compare the prices of farm products with those of other commodities. Certainly high prices exist in other commodities and also exist in some foods and manufactured goods and are the cause of hardship, but for some unknown reason the public expects dairy products to be sold at levels lower than those of other commodities.
We should remember that there are over
400,000	dairy farmers who, together with their families and all the people from whom they purchase, consume large quantities of manufactured products. We in Canada cannot afford to have the income of such a large group of people reduced so that their buying power will be impaired,
The present condition of the companies that manufacture agricultural implements is just an example of what happens when the buying power of the farming community is reduced.
Speaking in the debate last night, the hon. member for Vancouver-Burrard (Mr. Mac-Dougall) mentioned the elimination of the means test with respect to pensions for the blind. I concur in those remarks. I think that all members greatly admire the work
The Address-Mr. G. S. White that has been done by various associations connected with the blind attempting to assist them in their re-establishment. But the blind pension is subject to the means test, which simply means that when a blind person reaches the age of seventy years and is entitled to the universal old age pension he will then lose part or all of his blind pension. The number of blind over seventy years who would need both pensions must necessarily be very small. I am sure those who need it would be most grateful if this means test could be removed. All members have received a brief and a letter in connection with the matter, summarizing it; and I sincerely hope the government will give earnest consideration to this request.
My leader has moved the following amendment:
We respectfully represent to Your Excellency that the welfare of Canada is dependent upon free competition; and that the prosperity and security of all Canadians will be advanced by government policies which will restore markets for primary products and generally promote a high volume of international trade.
I intend to support that amendment, for certainly the welfare of Canada is dependent upon free competition. In this Canada of ours, with its great wealth. of natural resources, there is every opportunity for youth and for all others who are willing to work. But under socialism or state paternalism it would mean that we would take away from our youth all hope, ambition and initiative. It would mean that we would take away from our youth those things they would hope to gain for themselves and their families through the skill of their hands or their brains. If we take those things away from youth, then we will destroy for all time the very essence of those things which exist within each one of us, and which go to make a nation strong and great.


Mr. Daniel Mclvor (Fort William):: Mr. Deputy Speaker, the new Speaker has been congratulated by the hon. member who has just taken his seat, and I second his words. Now I congratulate you, sir, as his deputy. I am sure the house will be well directed both by Mr. Speaker and by Mr. Deputy Speaker, that they will be fair and just to all sides, and that they will be firm with those who attempt to break the rules.
I am happy to be here representing the constituency of Fort William, which is perhaps the cleanest and most progressive in Canada. I would not say that it showed outstanding common sense and prudence in sending me back; but they did so with the aid of two members of the official opposition who came to Fort William, both of whom
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The Address-Mr. Mclvor practically told my constituents that I would be back in the House of Commons. They are both members of our outstanding baseball team, and perhaps they said that because they felt they were likely to lose their places on the team. Anyone could see what that means. However, I can assure them that if I have anything to do with the baseball team representing the House 'of Commons no man who plays good baseball will ever lose his place, no matter what his political views may be-indeed, he might even be a Liberal.
I am happy indeed to have the honour of having as my deskmate a winner of the Victoria Cross. I am happy, too, to know that we have winners of that great honour on each side of the house, thus creating a splendid balance and showing that we are men of courage. Perhaps I might say that I feel somewhat easier, because I know that if I make mistakes my Victoria Cross colleague will guide me.
May I congratulate the Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent) and all the members of his cabinet upon having been elected without making a single promise. Surely that is an outstanding achievement. I congratulate, too, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Drew) upon his election, particularly in a constituency so outstandingly Liberal. I admire him in many ways, and it gives me great pleasure to look across the floor and see him happy in his heavy task.
I congratulate his chief assistant, and pay my tribute to him as one of those men who had something to do with helping to settle the pulp and paper industry strike, which seriously affected the lakehead. I welcome the new members, and I would say to them that those of us who come to this House of Commons, according to the estimate of a former lady member, compare favourably with any other group of men in Canada, not excepting the clergy. Therefore if any man comes to the house a bit unbalanced in his head, I suggest he should go back and take a back seat; otherwise he is likely to be told by someone in his own party to get out, and to get on the water wagon, and to conduct himself honestly as a good representative of his constituency.
The House of Commons, however, will never again be the same to me because of the loss of the former member for Peel.
I did not speak the other day; I felt the occasion was a tender one. But at this time I would say that on many occasions Gordon Graydon visited my room. We belonged to the same branch of the church and held some views in common. He was an outstanding


friend and, in practice, a happy Christian. I pay this tribute to him as one of Canada's greatest men who have crossed the river Jordan to join the others who have gone before. And I should like to add this, that if his good wife, so gifted and of fine character, should accept the nomination in that constituency, I would be greatly disappointed if a Liberal were nominated to oppose her. I hope we will have enough sense not to do it.
I welcome, too, the page boys, all but three of whom are new. Let me say to hon. members that these boys do a good job; do not give them any more to do than is necessary-and do not forget that they enjoy eats and drinks at the right time.
I congratulate the house, too, upon the return to parliament of every member of our baseball team. Surely this is a fine tribute to those who upheld the honour of the House of Commons. I would remind members of the press gallery that they will have to take care of their minds and bodies, and get down to practice earlier in the season, because again this year they are going to have a job on their hands.
As I turn to the speech from the throne I find three things which command particularly my appreciation. The first of these is the reference to trade. I know of course that any department headed by the Minister of Trade and Commerce (Mr. Howe) will do things for the benefit of Canada, no matter who may think to the contrary. As we listened the other day to the great President of the United States, saw his square face and his honest look, and heard his references to trade and other matters, I am sure we were inspired, even to the nerves in our diaphragms. Then when he lifted his eyes from his manuscript and dealt with the winning of the war, and concluded by saying that what we need on this great continent is faith in God and love for our fellow men, I was convinced indeed that the United States has a great president. I know that it will be taken care of. Nothing will be missed. If the opposition, like ourselves, have any suggestions to make, I am sure they will make them freely.
There is another thing in the speech from the throne that I appreciate very much, because we have been after it for a long while. The hon. member who just took his seat and many other hon. members supported the resolution that we have discussed many times. The handicapped people should have a pension. I said last year that I would not support any social legislation of any kind until those who cannot earn a dollar, and

must be completely attended to, have a pension. I thank the Minister of National Health and Welfare (Mr. Martin) and the government for their Christian common sense and for bringing in this much-needed legislation.
I have a resolution on the order paper which will not be needed now.
Another thing that we at the lakehead appreciate very much is the reference to the gas pipe line. We think that we should have an all-Canadian pipe line. Since the announcement has been made in the speech from the throne it is likely that we shall have an all-Canadian pipe line. If I were allowed I would suggest a name for that pipe line. I would leave out the words "Right Honourable" and I would call it the "Louis" pipe line. That would be a good name for it. But I must not forget, Mr. Speaker, that this government has not all the say; the board of transport commissioners has not all the say; the people who are putting up the money, which is usually borrowed money, will have a good deal to say on whether the pipe line goes through or not. They must see a way of making a return for those who invest their money in it.
I should like to say a word or two about Fort William. Things have been happening up there, as you would expect. Few cities in Canada have grown more than we have during the last five years. Again I would congratulate the government on the aid they have given the McKellar hospital in opening a new wing which was badly needed.
Another thing we have at the lakehead- and I might speak for half an hour on it- is this. In the spring we are going to have a cobalt bomb to aid in the cure of cancer. This will be at Port Arthur. Then we have the Institute for the Blind in Port Arthur and Fort William. We have built a new home for the blind and it will soon be ready for work.
Then, we have a male choir at Fort William which stands high not only in Canada but in the United States. They went to the south and they covered themselves with glory and honour and were a credit to Canada. This year they are putting on an associated program with choirs from the northwestern states and Canada, in June, and I have had a partial promise that the rest of Canada will hear this program over the radio, and I hope it will materialize.
We have a rugger football team at Fort William that won out in the Canadian west. It is an intermediate team, but it is amateur. It is the only senior amateur rugger team in Canada that I know of. They have won
The Address-Mr. Mclvor out in the west and they will be coming down here to clean up in the east as well.
To those who have money to invest may I say that I have no apology to make when I assert that there is no other place in Canada that gives better promise than Fort William or Port Arthur. We have cheap power; we have transportation by land and water; we have fine paved highways, the Scott highway and the trans-Canada highway. As far as transportation is concerned no city is better situated than Fort William. As I said last year, we have the finest water supply system in Canada. It consists of a big lake 800 feet up mount McKay. We do not need any pressure to send that water all over the city. All they had to do was to build the viaduct down from the lake. The only thing is, they have to control it. There is no extra charge for quantity used. The more you use the better the water will be. You can start your hose running in the summertime and let it run all night and it will not do any harm to the city water supply; it helps it.
As I said last year, we have perhaps the best care for children, boys and girls and young people in Fort William that is to be found in any city in Canada. We have industrial playgrounds. We have paid workers during June and July, helped by our high school students. But those are well supervised. In the winter we have rinks. The rinks are all built now. We have twenty-four rinks, one rink for skating, and alongside it another rink for hockey, and they are well used. Our city council, backed up by the citizens generally, believe that if you keep a boy or girl busy with their hands and feet the police will have nothing to do. I pay my tribute to one big policeman who last year had charge of three hockey teams and this summer two baseball teams. That shows the relationship between the police of Fort William and our boys and girls.
Then, too, we have churches in Fort William that are on the job, Protestant, Roman Catholic and Jewish. They are on the job not with the object of making money and erecting buildings, but with the one outstanding idea of building up human beings and helping boys and girls to become true Christian Canadians.
We need some things, and I take this opportunity of saying that we need some things in Fort William, because of the coming of the great waterways which we hope will not be delayed very long. We need a new bridge across the Kaministikwia river. That is our first outstanding request. Because of the number of buildings that have to be rented, which cost the government a great deal, we are asking for a new federal building. Because
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The Address-Mr. Mclvor of the great attractions of our country, a citizen out west came into our city and wanted to be given the opportunity of spending $100,000 on a motel in front of mount McKay. We think that is one of the greatest attractions in Canada today. It has outstanding scenery, and opportunities for skiing, with one of the greatest ski jumps in Canada. We think that mount McKay should be a national park.
Then, we have tried to have television. I hope that will come. I hope the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation will give some attention to CKPR Fort William and CFPA Port Arthur so that they may combine to build a television station out there. I hope that will come about.
I have some suggestions to give to the government on behalf of all of Canada. As hon. members who have preceded me have said, I am thoroughly convinced that the outstanding need today is pensions for the blind without a means test. I think it will come, but we have to stick to it and prove that it is necessary and in the best interests of Canada.
I have three things to suggest to help the veterans. Prisoners at Hong Kong receive a pension. I think that prisoners of war in all other countries should have the same pension. It will be observed that the government has already taken steps to bring that about.
I know a young man, an outstanding young hockey player, a real rugged one, a fine athlete, who was shot down in Germany. His leg was broken and he did not have an easy time. One should consider the treatment received by that young man and I think he should have a pension, as would be the case for a prisoner who was confined in Hong Kong.
Mention has been made of the necessity of increasing pensions for our veterans. A single man unable to earn money should receive $60 a month and a married man should receive $120. These men gave their very best and risked everything while others stayed at home. The best that we can do for them is none too good.
Another suggestion with regard to veterans would be to assist those who served in the trenches. I know a man who ate four Christmas dinners in the trenches. He experienced wet feet, wet clothes and wet sleeping ground. That will take ten years from his life and I am therefore going to suggest to the veterans affairs committee or to the Minister of Veterans Affairs (Mr. Lapointe) that a veteran should receive his old age pension without a means test at age 60.
My last suggestion to the government may seem foolish to some but I will make it just


the same. In Canada today we have an abundance of wheat-we have wheat everywhere. It reminds me of the days of the depression when we tried to get bread for boys and girls, men and women, while our elevators were full. Why could it not have been distributed? Why could not a way have been found to buy that wheat and make it into bread to feed the hungry? I think that the Minister of Trade and Commerce (Mr. Howe), the Minister of Finance (Mr. Abbott) and the Minister of National Defence (Mr. Claxton), with the grey matter they possess, could put across this proposal. I suggest that $100 million be taken from war expenditures for the purchase of wheat. We should send the wheat to countries which have need of it. I think that step is absolutely necessary.
Mr. Speaker, ours is a Christian country. This house is opened in a Christian way and if we conclude prayers by saying "Our Father", we should be brothers the world over. There is nothing new about this suggestion. The Christian program is to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, and to aid the sick. If our Christianity is real, let us put this thing across. I am sure it would be the finest cure for war and the finest stimulant for peace.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.


Mr. J. H. Blackmore (Lethbridge):: Mr. Speaker, I am glad the hon. member for Fort William (Mr. Mclvor) closed on the note on which he did close. I wonder if he would back the Minister of Finance (Mr. Abbott) if the minister were to adopt social credit technique in order to get the hundred million dollars' worth of wheat put into the hands of starving peoples. If he would, that would be a great honour to him, for the only device I know of which could be consistently used to accomplish that righteous objective would be social credit proposals.
I wish to congratulate the Speaker on his elevation to the high position that he now holds, and to express my confidence that he will discharge his responsibility in a way highly commendable and beneficial to all concerned. I would also like to congratulate the mover and the seconder of the address in reply to the speech from the throne on the work they have done.
My purpose today is to talk about wheat, the very thing the hon. member for Fort William was referring to. On behalf of the federal constituency of Lethbridge, which I have the honour to represent, I rise to speak regarding the wheat situation as it affects us in western Canada. Today I ask for five main measures to be adopted by the government:

1.	That money be advanced to farmers at interest not greater than 2 per cent for the construction of wheat storage facilities on the farms, storage facilities that will be adequate over a long period of years.
2.	That an early initial payment of not less than 75 cents per bushel be made to the farmer on each bushel of wheat adequately and of necessity stored on his farm.
3.	That on each bushel of wheat adequately and of necessity stored on his farm the farmer be paid storage comparable with the storage paid on each bushel of wheat stored in an elevator.
4.	That where it might appear advantageous, Canadian dollars be advanced to appropriate potential customers abroad with which they might buy Canadian wheat.
5.	That an appropriately similar measure be adopted in respect of any coarse grain or grains in respect of which there may be found to be a surplus threatening the wellbeing of Canadian farmers.
In making these requests I am expressing the desires of a large percentage of the people in my constituency, in fact of practically all people who have taken the trouble to think out this problem realistically.
May I read from an article appearing on page 5 of the Lethbridge Herald, of November 6, 1953, entitled "William Todd Heads Macleod Constituency". The constituency organization which was meeting on that occasion was the Social Credit provincial annual convention. Here is the resolution which they adopted:
The following resolution was passed by the convention and is being forwarded to the Alberta Social Credit League at Edmonton for presentation at the convention:
"Be it resolved that this body of Alberta Social Credit delegates in annual convention assembled does hereby request and urge that the dominion government of Canada, as soon as possible, take measures
(1)	to make available to wheat growers, at a rate not exceeding 2 per cent, funds with which to build granaries, adequate for permanent storage on the farms, of all wheat, for which, at any given time, the wheat board has insufficient storage capacity;
(2)	to make to growers an initial payment of not less than 75 cents per bushel on all wheat adequately and of necessity stored upon farms;
(3)	to pay the farmer on all wheat adequately and of necessity stored upon his farm, storage comparable with that paid on wheat stored in elevators;
(4)	to advance Canadian dollars to commonwealth nations or to other prospective purchasing nations which, because of the wide and increasing variety and extent of Canadian production, find themselves unable to sell Canada sufficient of their goods and services to obtain, through mutually beneficial trade, Canadian dollars with which to buy Canadian surplus wheat.
The Address-Mr. Blackmore
Be it further resolved:
That we urge that the dominion government adopt appropriately similar measures in dealing with other grain or grains in respect of which there may be found to be a surplus threatening the well-being of Canadian grain growers. And be it further resolved that we urge the Canadian government to obtain the money with which to make such provisions respecting our wheat, not through borrowing or taxing, but through the appropriate use of Canada's credit somewhat as Canada's finance minister did in 1917, creating $50,000,000 with which he provided Britain with the means of buying from Canada $50,000,000 worth of Canadian goods for helping to win world war I as stated in the report of the royal commission on banking and currency for Canada published 1933.
May I commend that last paragraph to the hon. member for Fort William (Mr. Mclvor) and to every other person, in the house and in the country who really desires to find a solution for the problem of the surplus production which is accumulating in Canada and in the United States.
On page 5 of the Lethbridge Herald of November 11, 1953, is a report from the Cardston provincial Social Credit constituency association. In this report appears substantially the same resolution as that which I have already read. This indicates that I have behind me from my own constituency considerable support for the suggestions which I have placed before the house today.
There may be those who will say that Canada cannot afford to pay the money which such a set of proposals would cost to implement. May I suggest that Canada cannot afford not to provide the money; even if she has to collect the money by taxation, Canada cannot afford not to spend the money to implement the proposals which I have made. If we do not store our grain on farms and if we do not pay our farmers the full price for the grain so stored, then we are going to face alternatives neither of which, I am sure, any hon. member of this house would willingly contemplate.
The first thing to be borne in mind in connection with this whole matter as to whether Canada can afford the money is this. Wheat is a food unsurpassed in the over-all essentials of nutritive value. Wheat, properly stored and supervised, is almost imperishable. Wheat is easy to store and care for. The wheat with which God has blessed us in such abundance recently is hard wheat, the finest wheat in the world. There is no discoverable limit to the prospective need and potential demand for our wheat. I think there is no doubt about that statement.
We have the gravest possible need for food. Those who say they know tell us that we have an annual increase in the world's population of upwards of 25 million people. They tell us that our population today is
94	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. Blackmore far greater than our food production is capable of taking care of. Those are solemn facts. No member of this house will question them for one minute. I ask any hon. member of this house this question. Do you want too many men and women in this world to get hungry? Hungry men are like hungry animals; they are mighty dangerous creatures to tamper with. That is considering the matter on the most materialistic basis, without considering Christianity at all, and just as a matter of pure national defence. We get up here and prattle along in this house, a good many of us, talking about how we want to defend ourselves against communism. God has given us the very means right here in this country with which we can take measures designed to prevent people like, say, the British Guiana people or the Mau Mau of Africa from going communist; yet we do absolutely nothing about it. How can we consider ourselves to be intelligent when we do things of that sort?
Look across the line. I am not wishing to criticize the administration down there, but every hon. member has read with considerable dismay, I am sure, of the proposed drastic reduction in production in that nation next year in respect of most essential commodities.
I do not wish to speak harshly, but I just wonder how such a measure as that can be classed as anything but international crime, with 1,400 million people going to bed hungry every night, with probably three million of them starving to death every year. With the greatest single need confronting us being that of food, then the nation which above all nations is qualified to produce food restricts the production of it. And that proposal will be right before us here in Canada very soon unless we discover and apply some means of taking care of our abundant production so as to keep it off the domestic market when we want to keep it off, and so as to be able to avoid selling it abroad when we want to do that.
If anyone in the house has a more logical or a more dependable set of proposals than the ones I have advanced, I invite him to rise in his place and tell the house those proposals and show how they will work better than the ones I have suggested. As I said, there is no discoverable limit to the demand for Canadian wheat in the world if we can only learn how to put dollars in the hands of the needy people in order to enable them to buy our wheat. They cannot get dollars from us by the ordinary trading methods because we do not want their goods, even if they have the goods-which many of them have not- to trade with us for Canadian dollars. We rightly refuse to accept their goods because
[Mr. Blackmore.1

they compete with the production of our own industries. If there is anyone who can gainsay that, I ask him to make himself vocal. This indicates that we are faced with a genuine difficulty, and one that just cannot be soothed away by unctuous phrases and beautiful words.
I have said that wheat is probably the greatest single item of real wealth in the world. A bushel of wheat will feed a certain number of human beings just as well in one generation as it will in another. Its value is perpetual regardless of the dollars and cents value which may or may not be attached to it from one generation to another. I say that the most reliable form of wealth any person or nation can hold is a bushel of wheat. Other grains also are real wealth of the highest intrinsic value. I am sure everyone will agree with me in that respect. I refer to oats, barley, rye and flaxseed. Can you think of anything that you would rather have in your storehouse in case of famine, insurrection within your country, or attack from abroad which disrupted your whole social organization? Can you think of anything you would rather have in your storehouse than a good quantity of any one of those grains? They will keep life extant for a long time. Blessed be any country having [DOT]on hand an ample supply of any one of those grains. Many times blessed will be a people having in safe storage a bountiful reserve of -each of these grains. Such a people will have an inestimable advantage in case of crop failure, internal trouble, military attack. Such a people will be able to aid afflicted ones abroad in case of need.
The measures I ask for would ensure and stabilize in Canada just such a reserve. When the Lord is blessing us with great crops, now is our chance to do just that. The measures I ask for would ensure and stabilize markets for our farming areas and therefore for our manufacturers. I think no hon. member will seriously disagree with that. Our farmers might not be able to buy all the products of our manufacturers, but they would go a long way if they were provided with adequate purchasing power. These measures would go far toward cushioning Canada's economy against mishaps of international trade, depressions and the like. They would help to make physically possible in our economy what is financially possible, or financially possible what is physically possible.
It is physically possible for us to produce enough of every kind of grain to lay up a store that would last us for a generation. One thing we hesitate about is where we will get

the money. If a proposal is physically possible, then a realistic financial system will make it financially possible; and if it will not do that then the system is faulty and ought to be changed.
May I now consider in some detail the five requests I listed at the beginning of my talk. The first is loans at 2 per cent for storage construction. When a farmer is put under conditions where he cannot market his grain, why in the world should he not be assisted to the extent of letting him have loans at 2 per cent? In my province of Alberta the provincial government is lending scores of millions of dollars to towns and cities all over the province at 2 per cent with which they can build water works, set up electric light systems and do several other things, all self-liquidating projects. If Alberta can lend money at 2 per cent, then something must be radically wrong with the federal government if it cannot do likewise. To advance loans for the establishment of granaries that would preserve our grain in case of emergency for generations is certainly a self-liquidating project if anything is.
Second, I request an initial payment of not less than 75 cents per bushel. Notice that I said "not less". I do not believe 75 cents is enough. I think nothing short of $1 will be adequate to enable the farmers to clear off the expenses which have been incurred through costs of production and straighten themselves out for the next year of production so they do not have to be hampered, curtailed and restrained at every turn.
My third point is the payment of storage on farm-stored wheat. The ultimate result of that measure would be this: If a farmer sold wheat in a given bin, say a bushel of it, to the dominion government and the dominion government paid him the cost of the wheat in full so that the dominion government owned the wheat and then the dominion government went on paying him storage, such as is now paid1 the great elevators, the time would come, if the channels of trade were not cleared, when the farmer would own that wheat again as a result of his storage. He then would have on his farm a fine supply of wheat. I do not think there is a farmer anywhere living close to the grass roots who does not realize how valuable it is to have on his farm a good granary full of each and every kind of grain. That has been recognized ever since the farmer began to farm.
Why should the farmer not own the wheat? If the government has paid for a bushel of wheat and then through storage has sold it back to the farmer, then the farmer would justly own it. There would have to be an
The Address-Mr. Blackmore understanding, of course, whereby the farmer would not liberate the wheat again into the markets without the express consent and co-operation of the federal government. That would enable such a measure to be used without disrupting the internal price structure.


An hon. Member:: Why grow any more crops? Just start that circle and keep it going.


John Horne Blackmore: Surely anybody with half the intelligence of my hon. friend ought to be able to know that two bushels of grain on your farm are worth more than one. That should be easy to see. I am really surprised at my hon. friend. He has got out of practice since he was in the house the last time. The measure I am proposing, as I have already indicated, would put the country in a position to control the price of grain within the country, because all that is necessary if the price of grain begins to rise too high is to liberate a portion of the grain into the market, as the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner) has demonstrated in respect of butter time and time again-and all credit to him. If it is desired that the price should rise, then the grain can be neutralized so that it will not go on the market and affect the price.
It may be said that is impractical. I am not convinced that it is not practical. If we people who live in an age when we have jet planes and scores of other well-nigh miraculous things cannot discover the financial means whereby to make what is physically possible financially possible it is surely a terrible reflection on us.
The fourth proposal is that the dominion government be prepared to make advances abroad to enable outside peoples to buy our genuine surpluses, the surpluses that we do not feel we want to store on our farms-this will relieve my hon. friend-or surpluses that we believe we really should make accessible to the needy people of the world. These would be genuine surpluses over and above our own local needs either today or next week. To sell these abroad we would make advances of money to prospective purchasers such as India, Japan, Siam, Malaya and any others who are unable to buy enough of our grain, and thus allow them to buy our grain.
Somehow or other many people become greatly exercised when the meaning of this proposal becomes fixed in their minds. I talked with a man on the train on the way down who almost went into a paroxysm when it dawned on him that I was proposing to give grain away, an inconceivable thing to him. I said, "Brother, you do not hesitate a minute to give billions of dollars away in

The Address-Mr. Blackmore airplanes, bombs, tanks, bullets, and human lives. You do not hesitate a minute when a war is on, but when I propose, in order to avoid war, that you give some grain away by an indirect route that is not going to cost you anything financially, you balk at it. How do you make sense out of that?" He has not made sense out of it yet. He has not told me. That is a bald fact.
That is the way people from other planets must look at what we do here, if they are much more intelligent or advanced than we are, as we suppose they are. Some people say such a thing never was done. Well, read the report on the United States economy called "The United States in the World Economy" prepared under the chairmanship of Wayne C. Taylor, and submitted in 1943 to the government of the United States. Read it and see what happened between the United States and the rest of the world between 1918 and 1928. You will read that the United States loaned billions of dollars to nations all over the earth which those nations used to buy United States goods and it kept the United States prosperous, kept their people employed. Only when they ceased to lend that money did depression come, and that depression began to come in the very year they ceased to loan that money. When they loaned it they expected to get it back. They found out they could not get it back and they could not even get the interest, because when the nations who received the money undertook to repay in their own goods the United States shut out those goods because they would compete with their own products.
Read the report. It will be good for all the folks who do not agree with us when we say that a richly endowed nation can without financial cost give goods away. Now, the farmer in the United States, in the case of wheat; did he give his wheat away when those loans were made abroad to buy wheat? Not at all. He got his pay. Everybody in the nation got paid for everything he did. But the nation as a whole loaned money abroad to buy the goods and give him the pay. Now, much the same kind of thing happened in Canada in 1917, a thing many people will be surprised to learn. Take the report of the royal commission on banking and currency in Canada, published in 1933. Turn to page 22, paragraph 47; I am going to read from it to you. It would be good for all to start in and read the whole report right through. I think it would help solve the problem in the mind of the hon. member for Fort William, and I hope he will read it. By the way, I would like to congratulate a man of his age for 
standing up here and giving as good a speech as he did today. I hope some of his friends tell him.
I read from paragraph 47, page 22:
In the war session of August, 1914 . . .
Before we had a Bank of Canada.
. . . parliament raised the partially covered issue to $50 million. Subsequently an issue of $16 million was made . . .
Which means the minister of finance printed subsequently an issue of $16 million.
.	.	. against a deposit of railway securities
guaranteed by the dominion government, as well as an uncovered issue of $10 million for governmental purposes.
That means in effect that the minister of finance printed at that time $26 million, printed it much as the Bank of Canada prints bills now, only the Bank of Canada lends them. He spent them. He printed $26 million and with them helped pay for the war. Now, listen to the second point:
In 1917 an emergency issue of $50 million of dominion notes was made to finance war purchases in Canada by the British government.
I suggest to those people who went prattling around the country jabbering about funny money that before they make themselves nonsensical they read this report and learn something about what Canada did before we were afflicted with the Bank of Canada.
So I suggest that just as we made advances to Britain in world war I we could lend money abroad to needy peoples much as the United States did between 1918 and 1928. That money could be spent in Canada to buy our goods. Everybody would get paid for his goods and services. Some people say that would cause inflation. How would it cause inflation any more than if we sold goods abroad, say to France, and received solid gold in return and then we paid the money out to the farmer? It could not cause inflation. That is the essence of the fourth proposal.
Now, the fifth proposal is that we apply to other grains the principles we have thus far laid down with respect to wheat. Of course you could not be expected to pay 75 cents a bushel for this oats, barley, rye and flax, but whatever amount would be appropriate in relation to the given rate paid for wheat. And where necessary it could be stored away, or where necessary sold abroad, by the same device if we could not trade it abroad in mutually beneficial trade.
I have already told you where to get the money, and let no one scoff at this. In another speech which I hope to give before too

long I intend to trace the financial history of Canada from 1868 down to 1934 and show that every single dollar Canada used during those years was printed by the minister of finance between those years 1868 and 1934, every dollar except what the banks created. Then silly people prattle about funny money! And a good deal of the money after he printed it was spent into circulation rather than loaned into circulation.
There are some who will argue that the farmers do not need financial assistance to a greater extent than they are now getting. That is a common argument being made today. That is the argument implied by the Minister of Trade and Commerce (Mr. Howe) today. I do not know how in the world it is that the ministers have managed to seclude themselves, to isolate themselves in such an ivory tower that they have not heard about some of the things that have come to my attention. May I refer, for example, to the Manitoba Co-operator dated September 3, 1953. I am going to read rapidly what is written there:
Federation Seeks Federal Financial Aid for Farmers
The importance of immediately announcing and implementing a federal government plan to provide short term loans or other means of aid to farmers to meet current operating expenses during the congested marketing period, was urged, August 31, by J. T. McLean, executive secretary of the Manitoba federation of agriculture and co-operation, in a letter to Rt. Hon. C. D. Howe, Minister of Trade and Commerce.
He said that the initial cash receipts this fall will be probably in the neighbourhood of $400 per farm. In view of present high and rigid operating costs and other fall commitments characteristic of the farm, the present financial difficulties many farmers are now experiencing can be appreciated, he added.
Apparently the ministers of the government cannot appreciate these things. I would like to see them out on the farm for five, six or seven years; they would appreciate a lot of these things then, I could tell you.
Now, Manitoba has a good Liberal government. There are sensible people in Manitoba. They do not advocate extreme things like what I am advocating, yet they realize there is trouble there. Here is a statement from Alberta. It comes from a newspaper which has never been accused of being a Social Credit newspaper. It is an editorial dated September 26, 1953, in the Calgary Albertan:
The town of Vulcan, about 60 miles southeast of Calgary, is well known for its "elevator row". Eight grain companies have elevators and annexes there with a total capacity of 1,468,000 bushels, and two more elevators are being built which will raise the figure to 1,588,000. That's enough capacity to supply each person in Canada with about five loaves of bread.
Yet it isn't enough, at least not in this season of abundant production. The congestion is as serious at Vulcan as in most other places.
97
The Address-Mr. Blackmore
Listen to those words.
That total space of about a million and a half bushels is now completely filled, but with old crop. It will stay filled until there's room in the terminals at Vancouver to hold some of the grain. In fact about a quarter of that space is filled with low-grade 1951 crop, according to the Vulcan Advocate, and there's no telling when that will be moved. Apparently there's no market for it, not with so much good wheat available.
The initial delivery quota this fall is only three bushels per cultivated acre, but the Vulcan elevators won't be able to take even a bushel for a long while yet.
About 180,000 acres of farm land is tributary to the Vulcan grain elevators, and about half that is in wheat, another 13,000 acres in coarse grains. The Vulcan wheat crop will average 20 to 25 bushels, the coarse grain crop probably 40. That means about 2,500,000 bushels of grain will be harvested there this fall.
No wonder there's such a rush all over the land to put up farm storage facilities.
Meantime farmers are going into debt. That is a report from Alberta, and it is not a Social Credit report.
Then here is a letter right off the firing line in southern Saskatchewan. It was not written for the perusal of government authorities, but was written as a friendly letter. Indeed, it was not even addressed to a member of parliament. This letter is dated October 2, 1953, and states:
You know they are drilling for oil south of town, and they hit oil yesterday. I don't know how much or what kind.
That is just introductory material. Then it continues:
We have had a grand fall; no rain, and the crops are all harvested, dry but can't sell any.
That does not sound very rosy, does it? Then a little farther down, he says:
Most people here have not sold a bushel this fall, and the businessman is left holding the bag. I have over $9,000 on the books, and the only excuse the farmer has for not paying is that he cannot sell any grain.


Mr. Goode:: Mr. Speaker, I rise to a point of order. I know the hon. member is very interested in what he is reading, but I think it is a rule of the house that when he reads he must give the names of the addressee and the addressor.


John Horne Blackmore: I shall gladly do that, and shall show it to the Clerk. However, I do not think I have to do it. All I have to do is affirm and vouch for it; and that I do.
We were told today by the Minister of Trade and Commerce, in reply to a question, that $1,104 million has been distributed in the prairie provinces in 1953; and the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner) will correct me if I am wrong. The implication there would seem to have been that the people out

The Address-Mr. Blackmore there in the west do not need help. Well, bless my soul, it the Minister of Trade and Commerce knew as much about dirt farming as he knows about hundreds of other things he would know that that money would have gone long ago to pay expenses of 1951 and 1952, leaving the farmer with nothing to pay current expenses.
I make no apology for having set forth these proposals. I feel confident that, if implemented, they would solve our problems in connection with wheat not only today but twenty years from now. And I am afraid no other proposal will solve them, without tremendous suffering and hardship not only among the farmers but among those who provide the farmers with the necessities of life and those things required to carry on. I submit that no group of people such as that should be penalized for having done the job of providing this country with the most valuable thing it has, wheat and grain.
In summing up, let me refer once again to these four proposals. The first was that loans at a rate of not more than 2 per cent be made to farmers to enable them to build suitable granaries. The second was that initial payments of not less than 75 cents a bushel be paid outright to the farmers, not as loans; and that such payments be made on all grain adequately and of necessity stored on the farms.
The third was that farmers be paid storage comparable with that paid by the government in elevators, on all grain adequately and of necessity stored on the farms.
The fourth suggestion was that a similar measure-


Mr. Gardiner:: May I task the hon. member a question? Is his suggestion-and I believe I heard it repeated several times in his speech-to the effect that the government pay a cent a bushel a month for the storage of wheat in the elevators now?


John Horne Blackmore: I did not mention any
amount. I did not refer to that amount, but rather to an amount comparable with that paid.


James Garfield Gardiner: Is the suggestion that the
government should pay it?


John Horne Blackmore: I think there would not
be anything wrong with the government paying it. At the present time I know you make the farmers pay it.


James Garfield Gardiner: It is the farmer who pays
it.


John Horne Blackmore: Oh, I know; you have no consideration at all for the farmer; he is a nuisance. He has always paid everything.
fMr. Blackmore.]

Things are managed in such a way that everything is taken out of the farmer that can possibly be taken out. And I think that is a pretty scurvy way of treating the farmer. When that is compared with the way farmers are treated in the United States, it constitutes a great reflection upon our treatment of the farmers. But the government could pay a cent a bushel, just as easily as not. However, I did not specify the amount.
Then the next suggestion I was about to mention was that Canadian dollar advances be made abroad to enable foreign countries to buy our surplus of wheat, or such wheat as we might desire to sell abroad. And the last suggestion was that similar principles should be applied to oats, barley, rye and flax.
I thank you, Mr. Speaker.


Mr. J. G. Diefenbaker (Prince Albert):: Mr. Speaker, I do not intend at the moment to follow the hon, member who has preceded me by dealing with the situation prevailing generally on the prairies. Indeed, I had intended postponing any remarks on that question until we receive the decision by the Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent) with reference to the suggestion made by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Drew) that a day be set aside for the discussion of that very important matter.
However, in view of the fact that there has been reference to it on one or two occasions during the course of the debate, later on in my remarks I shall make some reference to this very important matter, which affects not only the economy of the western provinces but also that of Canada as a whole.
It is always difficult to speak after an election, particularly when it does not turn out favourably for the party to which one belongs. I am not going to relive or revive any of the issues of that campaign. The Leader of the Opposition yesterday gave the lead when, in a most sportsmanlike way, he paid tribute to the Prime Minister and those associated with him in their victory.
However, having regard to the changed circumstances since the election, the farm situation, and the general loss of markets for agricultural products to which, up to now, several allusions have been made; and having in mind the general position in connection with textile manufactures and the like, perhaps I might be allowed to paraphrase the words of Sir Edmund Hillary who, describing his feelings when he had attained the summit of Mount Everest, said, "The view from the summit was not spectacular." It may well be that the government, looking over the situation and the changes that have taken place since the election, will admit that

Canada faces one of its most difficult periods. In consequence the responsibility of parliament becomes all the greater.
I am not going to relive that election campaign. We are in the opposition; we have our responsibility to discharge, to maintain our constitutional system. There can be no freedom without an opposition, strong and fearless to criticize, and above all to provide suggestions and ideas as an alternative to those advanced by the government.
I am sure that hon. members, and certainly the press of this country, after the election, realized the danger which is inherent in our constitutional system, when on repeated occasions one party achieves overwhelming power. There is one thing particularly that parliament must guard against-and it was perfectly evidenced in the decision made in connection with the Canadian Pacific Air Lines-namely, the philosophy that the big government knows best. That doctrine is a denial of representative government.
The responsibility of hon. members in all parts of the house is to make our democratic system operate. We in the opposition have a tremendous responsibility to examine in detail and to criticize with responsibility at all times the measures introduced by the government. I am one of those who believe that one of the major needs in our House of Commons is that provision be made at the expense of the state to place members of the opposition, who cannot have available to them the research facilities that are in such abundant measure accessible to the members of the government at all times, five or six trained experts in research technology, trade, agriculture and the like. Such facilities should be made available to Her Majesty's loyal opposition so that thereby members of the opposition may be placed in the position of being able to discharge properly, effectively and efficiently the functions and responsibilities resting on them.
Modern parliaments are very complex institutions. What a change there has been here since 1940, when I first entered parliament. Certainly no private member of parliament can, without technical assistance, discharge the responsibility that rests upon him in the extensive and ever-extending field of parliamentary discussion and decision.
I support the stand taken by the Leader of the Opposition when he suggested that estimates should be referred to a special committee, as has been done in recent years with the estimates of the Secretary of State for External Affairs (Mr. Pearson). Some say that to set up such committees would "strike at the root of ministerial responsibility." My 83276-71
The Address-Mr. Diefenbaker answer is that ministerial responsibility in Westminster has not been undermined by establishing a similar system. The committee of the whole is totally unqualified, having regard to its numbers, to examine properly the estimates that come before parliament. I believe that, in the interests of efficiency and good government, something in the nature of or analogous to the system followed in Westminster, the mother of parliaments, should be put into effect here so that a committee similar to the public accounts committee of the United Kingdom might be set up under the chairmanship of a member of the opposition, meeting in secret, far from the fanfare of political partisanship, where estimates could be examined in detail with care and deliberation.
This parliament is young. Many young men were elected to parliament in the recent election. That is what makes parliament live, young men, and women too, who, in the words of Arnold Toynbee "will not accept the inevitability of the present but will as adventurers help to form it."
I know quite well that there are many cynical criticisms of men in public life. The answer to such criticism is in the quality of members of this house, who must serve unselfishly, with an abiding conviction and with personal sacrifice, if this nation is to achieve its true destiny. When I hear people speaking of the alleged wrongs of politics and the shortcomings of public life my answer is that in the field of politics human and moral values are translated into practice; only in parliament can sociological concepts and technological advances be translated into effectuality for the public weal.
All of us were deeply appreciative of the speeches made by the mover (Mr. Holling-worth) and the seconder (Mr. Villeneuve) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne. I do not like to hear repetition in that regard, but each of those speeches represented something worth while in this parliament. What we have to do during the honeymoon period following an election is to refrain from rehashing and repeating the issues of the campaign.
Since the election certain salient events have taken place, and one of these is the denial of an air cargo route to Canadian Pacific Air Lines by the cabinet of Canada. The amendment moved by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Drew) brings into most effectual perspective a major issue facing our country. How far are we to go in this country along the road of state enterprise? Are we to be placed in the position where the future of Canada and its development is to be considered as the patrimony of the Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent) and the cabinet? Is

The Address-Mr. DiefenbaJcer private enterprise going to be given an opportunity to develop, to expand, within the necessary limitations imposed by the welfare of the state being the pre-eminent consideration? Is government to hold back northern development at a time of progress never before equalled?
Those are some of the things that suggested themselves to me when I listened to the Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent) yesterday as he explained why the government did not grant a licence for what had been asked for by thirty chambers of commerce of various cities which would be affected by the granting of this licence.
Are we to be in the position where a paternalistic government adopting a new philosophy is able to say to those who would risk their capital, in effect: It won't be good for you to do that. There is a danger that you will lose money. If private enterprise is willing to enter this new and untried field, the risk is the risk of private enterprise and the loss is not suffered by the people of Canada.
The decision by the government has received more general criticism than any action taken in recent years. I have before me representations from various parts of the country affected. I have in my hand representations of the city of Prince Albert within the constituency of Prince Albert which I now represent. Incidentally, Mr. Speaker, that is one of the two constituencies in Canada that has twice been represented by a prime minister. Quebec East was represented by Sir Wilfrid Laurier and is now represented by the present Prime Minister. Prince Albert for a short time in 1896 was represented, under the name of Saskatchewan, by Sir Wilfrid Laurier, and for many years by the late Right Hon. Mr. Mackenzie King.
Prince Albert was affected by this matter and representations were made by the city through its mayor, Mr. John M. Cuelenaere, and by the Prince Albert board of trade, represented by Mr. David Dalziel. Their representations were to the effect that this route was necessary, that northern Saskatchewan and northern Canada lacked the services which Trans-Canada Air Lines did not meet and could not meet by its southern route. The brief from Prince Albert read in part as follows:
Mining and prospecting in the pre-Cambrian shield of northern Saskatchewan has undergone extensive developments during the past few years.
The brief mentions Uranium City and other mineral developments in northern Saskatchewan including the tremendous resources of uranium so necessary for our survival,


resources that are mined north of Prince Albert. The submission ends:
We therefore submit that it would be in the public interest to grant the application of Canadian Pacific Air Lines Limited for a licence to operate a trans-Canada air cargo service as applied for.
Flin Flon, the city of North Battleford, the city of Prince Albert and all northern areas in Manitoba and Saskatchewan are affected by the denial of a licence to C.F. Air Lines, by the denial of what in my opinion should have been granted. This decision is an arbitrary order difficult to understand. What is the air transport board for? Is it a puppet? The board heard evidence. It did not make an unequivocal recommendation because to do so would be to bring about a change in public policy; but every finding in that report by the air transport board indicated the necessity of this licence being granted in view of the expanding development in northern Saskatchewan, Alberta and Manitoba. The board heard evidence, as it stated:
Some thirty chambers of commerce representing Canada's major urban areas represented to the board, as did the provincial government of Manitoba and many municipalities, private organizations and corporations, that there was a need for greater development of all-cargo services in Canada. Some supported the application of Canadian Pacific Air Lines Limited while others merely spoke of the general need for such a service.
The board sat; it heard evidence; it reported; and, for some reason that has as yet not been explained, the cabinet decided that it is not in the public interest because it might mean that the applicant would lose money.
That is not the spirit that will build northern Canada. In the speech from the throne a worth-while effort is made in connection with the changes to be made in the Department of Resources and Development. On one hand, in the speech from the throne northern development is given additional impetus. On the other hand, and in the same speech, a denial is made of one way which would encourage great development taking place in the northern areas.
Sir, if ever there was a doctrine that is a negation of risk, enterprise, and future development, it is that enunciated yesterday by the Prime Minister, in effect that the government is afraid that it will not be in the public interest. The applicant might lose money in the enterprise which would mean an application for higher rates.
Mr. Speaker, that decision was the most retrograde that has ever been made in connection with the development of northern Canada. Conditions in the world demand that northern Saskatchewan provide much of the uranium required in the years ahead.

The Address-Mr. Diefenbaker
Even now I hope that the government will give the matter reconsideration. It would be too much to ask that the government give parliament the opportunity of deciding this, for certainly members representing the northern parts of Canada in every province would, if they carried out the will of their constituents, demand the granting of the licence asked for, thereby assuring a development which will otherwise be denied or delayed.
The uranium potential of northern Saskatchewan is the second greatest in the world. The development of this and other resources should not be arrested by the autocratic desires of one or other member of the cabinet. Private enterprise should be given the encouragement the state can provide. A major need for northern Saskatchewan is a defence road which would assure that, should war come, the transportation of uranium and other minerals could not be cut off by enemy action.
We have been warned by one of the greatest authorities in Saskatchewan, Professor Mawdsley of the University of Saskatchewan, of the danger in which the continued production of these resources stands unless proper defence facilities are provided. I feel that the government should give consideration to building defence roads in the northern areas which would not only provide for continued expansion and further development, but would assure that in time of war transportation could not be cut off as the result of enemy activities. In peacetime such roads would do more to expand development in the provinces of Manitoba and Saskatchewan than anything else that could be done.
The great development at Flin Flon, in northeast Saskatchewan, the great development of uranium in the north, ask and demand a defence road. That a radar chain is being built is an open secret in northern Canada. When these measures are being taken and defence works are being built why, at the same time, should these areas not have transportation facilities provided by means of a defence road equally useful in time of war and in time of peace? In that northern development we in northern Saskatchewan are affected by the topography or geography which up to the present has made that development of less advantage to our province because the output goes into other provinces.
It is because I believe in the necessity for an economic redevelopment on the prairies that I press for action and bring to the attention of the house and the country once more the vast developments that are taking place. Canada's resources of uranium will
go far to spell the survival of freedom. Our titanium resources must be made readily available, without which there can be no jet aircraft of the kind that we look forward to as being possible within the next three or four years. The shield of freedom can be welded by the minerals that are available there.
While on the one hand the government recognizes the necessity for northern development, as evidenced by the recommendations placed in the mouth of the governor general for the setting up of a new department or at least for expanding the present Department of Resources and Development, on the other hand advance has been bridled by the action taken by the government in refusing to allow the northern parts of our country to have available to them those cargo freight facilities which Trans-Canada Air Lines is not able to provide, for its routes are three hundred or four hundred miles south of the areas which require freight facilities by air.
I re-emphasize to the government the need for doing something now, the need for realizing not only that the setting up of a new department or the expansion of an old department is a step in the right direction, but that in addition there is required air freight cargo facilities which, by the action of the cabinet, have been denied particularly to the provinces of Manitoba, Saskatchewan and northern Alberta. Most Canadians realize that in competition there is survival for us and our way of life; that competition spells the difference between the attainments of freedom-loving people and those who are dominated by the theory that the state is all powerful and its decision is always right.
Russia has tremendous resources. Yet, without the impelling motive of private initiative and enterprise, Russia finds herself in an inferior position to the NATO countries because they are driven by that thing that has something divine in its origin, namely the will and incentive that comes to free men.
Surely this is not the time for the cabinet of Canada to say that there should be a monopoly in an enterprise that the publicly operated T.C.A. has not undertaken as yet. Surely we do not believe that we should continue to spoonfeed the government institution that has not dared enter into the northern freight transportation field. Private enterprise is prepared to undertake a necessary field of service but is denied the opportunity. While the request has been refused

The Address-Mr. Diefenbaker for the time being, I suggest that "the time being" be of short duration so we shall soon be able to say that shortly the decision will be reversed and the right given to Canadian Pacific Air Lines to do that which Trans-Canada Air Lines has not undertaken up to the present and which is so necessary for our northern development.
I now come to one other matter, sir, and I deal with it because the hon. member for Lethbridge (Mr. Blackmore) dealt with it. I refer to the situation relative to the tremendous surplus of wheat that we have on hand. The Minister of Trade and Commerce (Mr. Howe) earlier today was asked a question by the hon. gentleman as to the prospective quota the western farmer might anticipate between now and July. I can understand that the minister was not able to say what that quota would be, but his answer was this: The value of the western farmers' crop is $1,110 million.


Clarence Decatur Howe: I did not say anything of the kind.


John George Diefenbaker: I understood that was what the minister said.


Clarence Decatur Howe: No.


John George Diefenbaker: What did the minister say?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I said that the cash payment to the farmers of western Canada in the calendar year 1953 amounted to $1,104 million. That is quite different from the words my hon. friend was putting in my mouth.


John George Diefenbaker: All right; I accept that correction. I misunderstood the minister. But that was not answering the question. That was just saying that the price of cheese in China is such and such when you are asked what it is in Canada. That is the kind of evasive answer that is frequently given in this house. The minister was asked What the quota would be. He answered it by bringing in something else that had no relevance to the question that was asked. The western farmers want to know within reasonable limits what that quota will be. They have a quota up to the present time of three bushels to the acre; and not many of them have been able to achieve delivery of even that quota.
The small farmer in western Canada finds himself in a difficult position. He realizes something of the world situation. He realizes that Canada has a large amount of surplus wheat on hand. He appreciates the fact that the United States has over 1,728 million bushels of wheat and requires only 700 million bushels for its own consumption. He


realizes that Canada will carry over some 352 million bushels this year, and he is greatly concerned about the disposal of that surplus. He can read the speech from the throne and he will find nothing in it to assist in solving his problem. The throne speech in effect avers that everything is fine but there is a surplus of wheat.
What are the government going to do? What are their trading plans? The United States has its plan for the disposal of certain surpluses, whereby approximately $250 million worth of surplus farm products may, under negotiations now being conducted with the British government, be sold to Britain. What are the plans of this government? What hopes are they holding out to the farmers that this surplus will be a benefit to mankind instead of being a detriment to Canadians? In the speech from the throne there is nothing to indicate government plans. There is not a word of hope, not a suggestion of a promise, but simply a reference in a casual sort of way to the situation.
I realize that it is a difficult problem, as do Canadians generally. No one wants to place the people of Canada in an impossible position. When he was in Winnipeg on October 28 the minister indicated that he was opposed to any system of loans. The distribution of money that was made from the 1952 pool has not met the situation. I know of the difficulties in connection with storage, and they were suggested by the Minister of Agriculture in the question asked a moment ago of the hon. member for Lethbridge. But, sir, within reasonable limits is there not something the government can work out in co-operation with the lending institutions whereby loans within proper proportions will be made available, based on the security of the wheat that is in the farmer's fields or in his granaries? I say to the Canadian people that there is no danger of loss in such a policy because no farmer can sell a bushel of wheat unless he has his permit book.
A loan system must be introduced in the interests of the small farmer, in the interests of the local businessman and retailer who finds himself in the position today of being unable to continue financing the local farmer. Surely there is some suggestion forthcoming from the government that will afford a little hope to these farmers.
What about granary space? I understand that the department of farm management of the University of Saskatchewan has estimated that the cost of new granaries for farmers would be 19 cents per bushel, without taking into consideration farm labour and materials. Incidentally, they have also indicated that the loss on protected field

storage on wheat would amount to 8-7 per cent per year, and on unprotected field piles to 10-1 per cent. Has the government something in mind that has not brightened the pages of the speech from the throne? Is there not something the government intends to do?
I suggest first of all that there should be a loan system. It has been done before by the government. Some may say that the farmers did not use the credit, the last one provided, that they only used a small percentage. Conditions are different today. Second, I see the danger in paying storage which was indicated by the question asked by the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner) a few moments ago, but I should like to see something in the nature of encouragement to the farmer to provide storage. The hon. member for Lethbridge (Mr. Blackmore) says the loan should be made by the government. I think there is a much simpler method than that whereby farmers could be encouraged to build their own facilities through accelerated write-off in the matter of depreciation, so the full write-off would take place in the course of three or four years.
Apparently we are in for a period when surpluses are going to pile up. There are large surpluses in the Argentine and in Australia. There is a surplus in France and the tremendous surplus in the United States. We too are continuing to pile up surpluses, which means that storage facilities must be provided. Is there any suggestion on the part of the government that encouragement along the lines followed in the days of war will be provided, when elevator and storage companies were encouraged to provide necessary storage facilities by income tax inducements?
Surely there is something the government can do, some hope they can hold out. The government is in the wheat business exclusively. They backed up a little recently. A month or so ago there was an order of the wheat board which made a change in marketing so far as the sale of wheat is concerned. It provided for the deferred price, a form of futures marketing wherein the buyer is protected but there is no protection for the farmer.


Mr. Rowe:: A government exchange.


John George Diefenbaker: There is one thing more. There is discrimination in parts of Saskatchewan-and I speak of Saskatchewan now- in the matter of the allocation of the necessary freight cars. I am not saying it is intentional, but I am saying there should be some direction to those in authority that sufficient freight cars should go to areas, particularly in northern Saskatchewan, where
The Address-Mr. Applewhaite farming is not done on a widespread or extensive and enlarged acreage scale. In that district the farmers find themselves in a position where they are not being given their fair share of the facilities at their marketing points.
One word more, Mr. Speaker, and then I shall be through. The farmer cannot understand that while his costs are going up price levels generally are going down. He cannot understand why the consumer pays the high prices he does-and certainly the index is rising month by month-while at the same time farm prices in general are stabilizing downward. I make one more suggestion. When the combines investigation branch runs out of work-


Mr. Croll:: 


John George Diefenbaker: -it would be a fine
undertaking for it to investigate the reason for the very pronounced and, as I see it, inexcusable spread between the price the farmer receives and' the price the consumer ultimately pays.


Mr. E. T. Applewhaite (Skeena):: Mr. Speaker, this is, I believe, the second debate on the address in reply in which it has been my misfortune to follow the hon. member for Prince Albert (Mr. Diefenbaker). I say "misfortune" because it is obviously difficult for one of my limited capabilities to create an impression following the orations which that experienced parliamentarian always delivers. I do not intend to follow him. I have things I should like to say on my own behalf. But I should like to assure the hon. member for Prince Albert that it does not require a postelection honeymoon period for me to tell him very sincerely that we always welcome the facile manner and the flowing eloquence with which he handles the English language.
May I first from my place in the house extend my most sincere congratulations to you, Mr. Speaker, upon your election as the presiding officer and guardian of the rights of the House of Commons. The manner of your nomination and election and the spontaneous applause which greeted it speak more eloquently than I can of how well it was accepted by all members in all parts of the house. I should also like to extend my congratulations to the Deputy Speaker whose election also was a source of gratification to all, and it is with real sincerity that I pay the traditional compliment to the mover (Mr. Hollingworth) and the seconder (Mr. Ville-neuve) of the address. In fact I feel it is almost impertinent for me to undertake to compliment these gentlemen. The hon. member for York Centre made an address which will

The Address-Mr. Applewhaite long live in all our memories. It is a source of shame to me that I was not able to keep up with the hon. member for Roberval and follow him in all his remarks, but it was perfectly obvious to all of us that he was just as efficient and' effective in his mother tongue as was the hon. member for York Centre in his.
May I, as a private member, extend my sincere congratulations to the Prime Minister (Mr. St. (Laurent) upon the result of the August election. There is not one of us sitting on this side of the house who does not realize that very largely we owe our return here to the regard, esteem, affection and admiration with which Canada as a whole regards its Prime Minister. Not for one moment would I want to overlook the accomplishments of the other members of the -cabinet, nor would I want to minimize the great hold which the principles of Liberalism have upon the minds and the enthusiasm of the people of Canada; but I know, and all members of the house know, that it is the personification of those principles in our -great leader which has resulted in so many of us being here today. If I were to follow the unfortunate precedent set this afternoon by the hon. member for Hastings-Frontenac (Mr. White), I suppose I should have to give some credit for our majority to the members of the opposition.
Before entering upon the remarks I wish to make in this -debate, I should like to confess to my difficulty in answering two questions which were aroused- in- my mind by the speech of the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Drew). He said, if I followed him correctly, that the estimates in this house, year after year, are forced through the house with -almost indecent haste in the dying days of the session. That is absolutely true. But, Mr. Speaker, perhaps somebody from that side of the house will tell us why it is when the estimates are brought down, as they were -last session, fairly early in the year, these people who complain -about lack of time for investigating the estimates are the people who would debate every subject under the sun- when the government moves- to go into supply.
The other question which perhaps someone from that side will answer for me is another difficulty left in my mind by the speech of the Leader of the Opposition, and I think to some extent by the hon. member for Prince Albert (Mr. Diefenbaker). The Leader of the Opposition, in a most eloquent and well delivered address, referred to the difficulties resulting from the surplus of wheat. He referred also in glowing terms, with most of which I -agree, to the -advantages and the need for retaining the advantages of the free


enterprise system. The words which I think he would have added to the address are "free competition". What he -did not say was whether or not the wheat surplus was to be left to the tender mercies- -of the free enterprise system and free or unfettered competition, or whether in that instance the government was to commit the unpardonable sin of interfering with business.
I am from British Columbia. I have to admit that in British Columbia, speaking provi-ncially, at the present time we are temporarily an unstable province. Provincially -our -politics are anything but stable. However, I am glad- to say in my district of Skeena the public, recognizing the merits of the record of the Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent) and his cabinet, decided to put public performance ahead of promises and came up with the right -answer. I have no delusions -as to my own importance or effectiveness. I know very well that, with British Columbia in the condition in which it is today, I would not have been here- perhaps some of my colleagues on this side of the house would not have been here-if it had not been for the fact that the Liberal government, over the past 19 years, has created -a record which even temporary political insanity could not let the people overlook.
If I may coin a word we used to use when we were very small children, I have to admit that the province of British Columbia has gone rather wacky. But it is a large province. It is a fine province. It is a growing province, -and it will overcome its present temporary setback. It will survive the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune despite anything that might happen in the next year or two.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I wish to discuss one or two of the problems which arise in my district, and if the house will -agree I would ask you to call it six o'clock.
At six o'clock the house took recess.


[Stage Direction]
AFTER RECESS

The house resumed at eight o'clock.
Edward Turney Applewhaite: Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasant tradition in the house that, in this debate, private members may take their time to present glowing pictures of the beauties of their districts. Representing as I do one of the largest in the country, and definitely the best, the temptation is very great for me to do the same. However, unfortunately I have come to the conclusion that forty minutes is not long enough to do justice to the subject.
The new aluminum development now coming to fulfilment at Kitimat, with the power

development at Kemano, is in itself a subject which has been the material for many forty-minute speeches. The subject has been so well covered by magazines and periodicals in practically all parts of the North American continent that I am confident every member in the house knows as well as I do how important is this new aluminum project to Canada.
And so, instead of describing the many advantages of the riding of Skeena, I shall instead take a few moments to put before the house and the government some little problems which have arisen in that district, and most if not all of which I feel may be common to other similar districts across Canada.
Apparently a majority of the people of the country agree with me that we have a pretty good government. But, believe it or not, even this government is not always perfect, and some little sins of omission will sometimes crop up. That is only natural; after all, that is one of the reasons for our being here, namely to draw the attention of the authorities to those things which have not been done and should have been and, perhaps in a few cases, those things which have been done but should not have been done.
I have one particular instance in mind which I shall lay at the door of the Post Office Department. There is in that department a comparatively new procedure whereby, in a new community which has, we will say, grown up around one operation such as a fish cannery, one logging concern or one mine, the Post Office Department may decide that, while it will authorize a post office, the concern carrying on the operation shall assume full financial responsibility for the running of the post office.
I submit it is a good thing for every department of government, including the Post Office Department, to protect and to save so far as possible the money of the taxpayers of Canada. I would urge, however, that in this instance this unfortunate decision is based upon a wrong premise. When a post office is set up anywhere in Canada it is not set up for the benefit of one business concern carrying on operations in that locality. It is set up for the benefit of every Canadian who is resident in that locality, and who is entitled to obtain and to send mail.
I am sure I could come here to Ottawa and present to the government a new community with five separate industries each employing 15 people, thus making a new community of about 75 people; and in those circumstances Canada would supply a post office at the expense of the taxpayers. Then, if we have one community with perhaps four or five 53276-8
The Address-Mr. Applewhaite hundred people, is it fair that the post office should be supplied at the expense of the employer simply because those four or five hundred people happen to be on the same payroll?
I have no torch to carry for any particular employer; but I think perhaps it is not surprising to find that the opening of a post office is somewhat delayed when that is the position. So I would ask the government to remember that five hundred people working for one employer are just as much entitled to post office facilities at the public expense as are 500 people who may be distributed among five or six employers. I submit respectfully that this should be a self-evident proposition.
I should like to say a few words about search and rescue. I can speak about this subject only as it applies to the Pacific coast, because that is the only place where I have had any connection with it. Search and rescue is sometimes described as a coastguard service, because in the United States of America as well as in Alaska, with which I am more familiar, those services are carried out by the United States coastguard service.
I have two criticisms in this connection, one of which is that, with all due respect, I do not think we are doing as much as we should, and the other-and for this the government and the authorities are responsible-that we are doing a great deal more than is realized by the people.
Search and rescue on the Pacific coast is particularly applicable to marine and air losses. Both ships and aircraft get into difficulties and dangers, and sometimes disappear. The same applies on some occasions to individuals. Hunters, prospectors and tourists will occasionally get lost, upon which occasions the search and rescue service is brought into operation.
I know it would be very popular with my people at home if I were to ask for an unlimited expenditure on search and rescue. Even in respect of that service I do not think one is entitled to ask for too much. I do believe, however, that it is proper to ask for everything it is reasonably possible for Canada to provide, particularly in the light of the fact that, not only in that part of Canada but in all other parts, the population is on the increase. A service provided today for an area in which there are 20,000 people will be supplying 30,000 people in that same area in a few years.
Along the northern part of the coast in particular we find either that the search and

The Address-Mr. Applewhaite rescue service is not as efficient as it should be, or that it is not sufficiently familiar to the marine and aviation people. The result is that they do not know what protection is available.
Both those situations should be corrected. I submit that the most satisfactory and complete service which could be given on the northern part of the British Columbia coast would be the establishment at Prince Rupert or, if it were felt more feasible, on the Queen Charlotte islands, of not only a naval division such as we have at Prince Rupert, but the equivalent of a fleet air arm. I would like to see that supplied with helicopters for search and rescue purposes primarily. My submission is that the training and experience personnel would get in operating those helicopters, in providing search and rescue service, would certainly be of very great value if the navy were required to take part in operations for which it was originally formed, namely combat service.
This gives me an excuse to draw the attention of the house to the reserve naval division at Prince Rupert known as H.M.C.S. Chatham. It is worthy of consideration on many grounds, not the least of which is its proven efficiency. I can assure hon. members it is some satisfaction to me to be able to point out to the house that, as at June 30 last, the standings across Canada for the naval division efficiency trophy indicated that H.M.C.S. Chatham at Prince Rupert rated 127-7 points, whereas the next highest rated 47-18. Therefore I believe I am quite justified in saying that we have stationed there a most efficient naval division, which could be of inestimable value if it were supplied with aircraft of some kind or another for search and rescue purposes.
The Royal Canadian Air Force does not maintain a base right in my district. However, it has been most co-operative and has rendered extremely good service in the matter of search and rescue, and it is only right that it should be given credit for that service. Figures I have for the calendar year 1952, and which I believe to be correct, show that in the Pacific area alone in that year the R.C.A.F. took part in search and rescue missions in the following manner: 12 aircraft cases; 13 marine cases; 23 mercy flights, and 8 miscellaneous cases, including missing persons, making a total of 56 cases, involving 389 flying hours. Incidentally, in the whole of Canada during last year the R.C.A.F. took part in 222 search and rescue operations for a total of 5,453 flying hours.
That is not a bad record, and I suggest it does prove that Canada is not entirely asleep in the matter of search and rescue. But I am wondering whether the Royal Canadian Air

Force, the Royal Canadian Navy and all government vessels are as properly and efficiently tied together as they should be to give us a search and rescue service. I said "all government vessels". I refer not only to the fisheries vessels, the R.C.M.P. and the Indian affairs vessels under the jurisdiction of Canada, but also to the government vessels owned and operated by the province of British Columbia.
If-and I think this is likely-there is on paper or in effect a system whereby these vessels and planes are all available for search and rescue, then I wonder whether we have done our duty in telling the marine and flying commercial people on the coast what is available. I also wonder whether we have not made another little mistake. Have we told the people where they can send their calls of distress? Have we slipped up somewhere so that these calls of distress do not get distributed as widely as they should, so that what is available in the area does not get called as quickly as possible? I do not say that we have; I am not sure that we have not. Therefore one of the criticisms I have to make is that we do not know enough about what is being done.
I should also like to volunteer a suggestion which I think has merit, but which I would approach with an open mind. Many of our cases on the coast have to do with aircraft loss. I got very intimately mixed up with two of them this summer. One was rather spectacular and the other involved the loss of a personal friend of mine for whom I felt particularly responsible, as I had had something to do with his obtaining a licence to operate in the air. The suggestion I am going to make in this connection is that the proper authorities get in touch with local commercial air companies who employ a goodly number of bush pilots, men with an intimate flying knowledge of the area, men with an intimate knowledge of the habits of each other, who would know where a missing man would most likely be because they know what routes he would follow, and so on.
I should like to see these commercial fliers, every one of them, irrespective of whether they fly for a large company such as C.P.A. or a small outfit flying one plane, given a certain amount of authority and the right to exercise a certain amount of initiative, but particularly, with respect to the little fellows, not at their own expense. Perhaps some government supplies could be based centrally so any pilot who heard of a plane missing in that area could go as a matter of right, and take them, whether they were collapsible rubber boats, food, first aid equipment and

parachutes, or anything they might think was necessary because, particularly in the case of lost aircraft-it is so obvious that it need not be said-speed is a matter of great importance, and more particularly should a plane be down at sea. Therefore I am going to ask the authorities responsible for search and rescue to give that particular suggestion immediate investigation, because I believe it has merit.
Another matter of an entirely different nature to which I should like to refer-and here again it is going to call for some increased government expenditures-is the absolute necessity for something in the nature of a living allowance-whether you call it northern allowance or a special cost of living bonus or what, I do not care-for federal civil servants in areas such as the district of Skeena, where the prevailing wages are scores of percentage points above what they are across Canada. Our civil servants have been asking for that for some considerable time.
I would not want to give the wrong impression. They have not received the brush-off, but they have not yet received what we today consider a satisfactory acceptance of their request. Some time ago I received a communication-I have several of them, and I will quote only part of one-from the amalgamated civil servants of Canada, Miller Bay local council. Miller Bay, I should tell the house, is an Indian health service hospital operated a few miles from Prince Rupert. I want to read to the house two paragraphs from their submission and then endorse them. The paragraphs are:
We feel that conditions that fail to attract a high calibre of employees and result in a lowered standard are having, and will increase to have, a serious bearing on the future efficient and economical operation of the government's business.
Outside employers are offering greater opportunities, salaries, and conditions to efficient and trained personnel. This has, and is resulting, in an ever-increasing number of resignations of the best and more experienced people in the service. These people are being replaced by employees who are, in many cases, incapable of obtaining good employment in outside industry.
In other words I base my argument not so much-though perhaps that is justified-on asking that our people receive more money, but on the absolute necessity of giving our employees more money if we are not to lose them to private industry and have to accept only the type of employees whom private industry do not regard as worth more money, and the final end of that situation of course would be most unfortunate for the dominion.
I am glad to say that the speech from the throne mentioned housing. I should like to 83276-8J
The Address-Mr. Applewhaite lay before the house one little suggestion in connection with houses. It might be a somewhat local situation, nevertheless it is important. I have discussed the matter of housing at great length with veterans of my area and with particular reference to the Veterans Land Act. Let me make it clear there is not in Prince Rupert, nor within 50 miles of Prince Rupert, any arable soil. We are not a farming community; we are basically a fishing community, and our terrain is rock and muskeg. There is provision in the Veterans Land Act whereby a fisherman can take advantage of it. I am not speaking of the fisherman at the moment; I am speaking of the veteran, irrespective of his employment.
The veterans come to me and they say: "It is impossible-" and it is physically impossible- "for me to acquire in the Prince Rupert area the acreage necessary to qualify under the small holdings provision of the Veterans Land Act." I endeavour to point out what I will say to the house at the moment, that the small holdings provision was intended to enable the veteran to augment his income a little by growing some of his own vegetables or producing his own eggs, and so on; and that you cannot do in the area I am talking about. But whether it is done under the Veterans Land Act or some other act, I would urge that for the veterans'-I am discussing that one angle of the problem at the moment- a provision at least similar to the small holdings provision under the Veterans Land Act be made whereby they can acquire a home, not an apartment, similar to the homes which veterans can acquire if they are fortunate enough to live in areas which are arable.
As I say, I admit that there is a conflict of principle between the Veterans Land Act and the assisted houses, but a conflict of principle or difficulty of administration should not alone be any reason for this house not finding a satisfactory solution.
Another matter which arises in the district is entirely different, and this I imagine is pretty well peculiar to my area. My halibut fishermen, except the ones with small ships, fish far afield. They fish very largely in the gulf of Alaska and in northern waters. Those of you who are familiar with the map of the Pacific coast of Canada will realize that the Alaska panhandle comes halfway down the coast. I am told, and I believe it is correct, that where a fisherman has to put into a foreign port-in my case an Alaskan port- for emergency repairs, he is only entitled to bring those emergency repairs back to Canada free of duty if it was impossible-and that is the word, "impossible"-to get the ship back to a Canadian port without those repairs. Those who are familiar with halibut fishing

The Address-Mr. Applewhaite on the Pacific coast realize that halibut fishing lasts about 30 or 31 days. If a ship requires repair and has to come back from the gulf of Alaska to a Canadian port it is liable to lose from one-fifth to one-third of its whole year's catch. One-third to one-fifth of our halibut season is only from six to ten days.
The provision has another disadvantage in that it rather encourages ship owners to take chances. They are asked to bring their ship a matter of 400, 600 or 800 miles to a Canadian port instead of doing what one should do when thinking of life and limb; that is running to the nearest port to get repairs. I do not think it is the intention of this parliament, for the sake of a few dollars in duty, to force any bona fide fisherman to lose from one-third to one-fifth of his year's catch. Neither do I think it is our intention to force him to take unnecessary risks. I notice that among other things listed as coming before us this year there are the amendments to the Customs Act. I would ask the minister responsible to give this plea serious consideration if it requires amendment to the act. It may be that the position of which I complain can be cured by amendment of the regulations only.
I have only one other matter that I wish to refer to, Mr. Speaker, and it is in connection with airports generally and one in particular. I wish to express my thanks to the minister and the Department of Transport for the assistance they have given us in making a preliminary survey in connection with the establishment of an airport for wheeled aircraft at Prince Rupert. It is an airport which is going to be built not only for the sake of the pride of the people of Prince Rupert, something which does not count for very much, but also because it will be the only Canadian airport on the mainland north of Vancouver which can serve the country. Further investigations will have to be made, naturally, before even the cost of such an airport can be arrived at. I would urge the department to make those investigations.
In connection with airports generally I think the time has come for Canada to adopt a policy in connection with air transport which I think we adopted many years before my time in connection with water transport; namely, that wherever a community requires, and really requires, air transport we should assist them to get it. After all, where a community on the coast has required marine transportation this government-and I do not mean this Liberal government but the government of Canada over the last sixty years-has not been too slow in providing the necessary wharves for

marine transportation. We have to realize that we are in an air age, and that the same facilities for air transportation will have to be provided within reason.
If I am not over my time I would like to say this, Mr. Speaker. I was greatly impressed by a speech made by Mr. Grant McConachie, the president of Canadian Pacific Air Lines, in which he urged that every little community should not ask for a great big airport. He said the country could not afford it; and besides, big airports are not going to be needed at every stopgap place. He said small ports should be built so that air buses can pick up the traffic, human or freight, at those little places and transport those persons or freight to major places. From there they may travel on main airliners across Canada.
I would ask that this house give the same consideration to requests for small airports as it has given in the past to many requests for wharves.


Mr. Clarence Gillis (Cape Breton South):: Mr. Speaker, first I want to echo the sentiments of those in this house who complimented you on your ascension to the throne. Having been in the house with you for some considerable time I am sure that you will go down in history as perhaps one of the best Speakers this house has ever produced. I look forward to being ruled out of order quite frequently.
In view of the fact that the C.C.F. subamendment points up the necessity for a national health program, I am just going to say a few words about it. The hon. member for Rosetown-Biggar (Mr. Coldwell) made the case for a national health program very well and I have no intention of repeating it, as I have other matters to deal with. However, I would say that in my judgment the establishment of a national health program in this country is a must at the present time. I think 98 per cent of the people of this country would' back the government in bringing down something that would make medical science available to all the people of this country.
Conditions are very bad in that field. The Minister of National Health and Welfare (Mr. Martin) can stand up in his place and say that the government has spent a lot of money in building hospitals and providing more bed space, and that is quite correct. But they have not provided any way for the majority of the people of this country to occupy those beds. Those people cannot get into them. They cannot afford to do so. You are also still far short of bed space, and you do not have to leave this city for proof of that. I think right now you have perhaps 1,600 or 1,700 people

on the waiting list at one hospital, and perhaps 1,500 or 1,600 at another. Those are people who can afford the beds, but in many sections of this country I know there is bed space but people cannot afford to pay the $12 or $14 per day in order to secure the services.
The time has come when something has to be done about it, and I think even the medical profession is realizing that today. One of the most disorganized professions in Canada today is the medical profession. They are in a transition from the old to the new and they know that the new is going to come. For a good many years people with selfish interests have struggled against all progress. I am sure that the government realizes that.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I wish to bring something to your attention. Hansard of the last day of the last parliament will indicate that I asked the Speaker of this house, through the then minister of public works, if when the members returned to the next parliament -regardless of who came back-he would have a television set installed in room 16-


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Clarence Gillis: -so that members who come into this house at eight o'clock in the morning and spend all day here until ten o'clock at night may have a chance to look at television. The industry is in the embryo stages now, and I think members of parliament particularly should have an opportunity to look at those programs and determine just how well or how badly the industry is getting under way.
The minister of public works of that time -and he has now gone to his reward-stated that he would take the matter up with Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker suggested that perhaps something would be done about it. Well, I know that the present Speaker will do something about it, and that all I have to do is to remind him.


Harold Edward Winch: As a brand new member, may I ask the hon. member what is room 16?


Clarence Gillis: I shall be glad to answer that question. Room 16 is just outside this chamber. It is the members' room. It is a place where members can go and sit, listen to the radio, and meet their friends. It is a general recreational room provided for the members of the House of Commons. A lot of other things go on there, too.
Mr. Speaker, as most members of this house know, the throne speech debate is an omnibus affair and is largely designed to give members an opportunity to air the grievances of their own communities; and most of them take advantage of that opportunity. I
The Address-Mr. Gillis notice that considerable straw has been threshed already. At this time I am going to pose to this house a problem that I have brought before it a good many times, but I am going to do it in a little different way this time, because, despite all of the talking I have done about it, it has become worse and worse.
I am going to make two charges. I understand that is a good legal way of doing things, namely to charge people. Then after making those charges I am going to support them with documentary evidence or, as I think the lawyers would say, corroborative evidence. I am going to charge the Dominion Steel and Coal Corporation of Canada-it is not only in Nova Scotia; it is an octopus that roams from coast to coast-with the sabotage of the coal and steel industry of eastern Canada.
That is a serious charge and I am going to prove it. I am going to charge the federal government with failure to protect the public funds they have put into that corporation. You have a statutory provision that appropriates $4 million a year for subvention purposes, and it is paid out. Some of it goes to the railways and a lot of it goes to the company. You have a $7J million investment by way of loan to the Dominion Coal Company. I am charging that the dominion coal board or the Department of Mines and Technical Surveys have not enforced the terms of the bill under which that money was loaned. That bill stated that the project for which the money was loaned must be economically sound, in the best interests of the community and sound from an engineering standpoint. I am charging that all three of those provisions were violated by the federal government, for the department responsible for the administration of that fund has not done anything about it.
The first thing we have to ask ourselves is this; and in doing this kind of thing I am in good company. I am in the company of the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Winters). I notice that at a recent convention in Halifax -he was addressing that Liberal association convention-he too made charges, according to this press dispatch, to the effect that the Intercolonial Coal Company operating in Westville, where about four thousand people are affected, had closed that mine without proving that it was necessary to close it because orders from the Canadian National Railways were still there to be filled and they would have continued that operation for at least four more months, but the company just closed it down. The minister made that accusation before that body. There is a press

The Address-Mr. Gillis dispatch here to that effect, and it is quite recent. I am therefore in good company. That is corroborative evidence.
The first thing we have to prove is this: What about that resource? Has it run out? Is there any coal there? Can it be mined successfully? It is necessary to go back a little way, in my judgment, in order to show what is a gradual, deliberate breakdown of the industry by the company itself. I have here in my hand a copy of the minutes of a special House of Commons committee on reconstruction and re-establishment. I was a member of it. We sat here for some considerable time. These minutes are volume No. 2 of Wednesday, March 17, 1943. On the question as to the resource itself, how much coal is there, the witness on that day was Dr. F. W. Gray, assistant general manager, Dominion Steel and Coal Corporation of Sydney, Nova Scotia; and by the way, he is also a geologist. On the question as to what resources were there and what could be done about them he said this, and I quote from page 26 of these minutes:
I and my boy, who is a geologist, made a very -lose study of that field. We spent together probably about eight years on the study, and I came to :he conclusion that in the Sydney coal field we can produce at about the same rate of output for the next, say, 180 years. That takes into account the question of mining submarine coal and the changes of quality and the persistence in the seams. I think that district offers a possibility of mining, say, five million long tons of coal a year over almost two hundred years. So from the point of view of post-war reconstruction there is no question about the resources, at least so far as Cape Breton is concerned, and more particularly the Sydney coal field.
One hundred and eighty years' supply there! Would produce five million tons a year perhaps for the next 200 years! Let us see what has happened to that industry since. To give you some idea of the importance of the industry to Nova Scotia from the standpoint of dollars here is a little quotation from another official document:
Last year coal production in Nova Scotia was estimated at 6,600,000 short tons as compared with 6,412,113 in 1949. Total mineral production in the province was valued at approximately $60 million last year, of which coal accounted for some $51 million.
So in terms of mineral dollars that industry is extremely important. Let us take a look at the dominant position occupied in that province by that huge corporation that is sometimes referred to in this house as free enterprise. I should like to know who is competing. Dosco employs about 30,000 people, over 16,000 of whom work in Nova Scotia and nearly 2,000 in the iron mines in Newfoundland. The rest work in the central

Canadian plants of the corporation. Approximately 75,000 men, women and children in Nova Scotia are directly dependent on Dosco for a livelihood. That is nearly one-sixth of the population of the province. The areas and towns that are completely dependent on Dosco contain a population of about 130,000 or somewhat over 20 per cent of the entire population of the province.
When you are talking about that organization and its effect on the economy and the lives of the people of that province, you are not airing a grievance; you are making a plea for a reorganization of the economy of the province. It is drastically upset at the present time. What is the reason for this? Why is our coal industry declining? In my judgment it is because the company is no longer interested in mining and selling coal except for their own requirements in the Dosco steel plant at Sydney.
I charge the federal government also with being slack in permitting that corporation to set up in Montreal a wholly-owned subsidiary that is importing United States coal and selling it in the Montreal and Ontario markets and backing the industry in Nova Scotia completely out of the picture.
Let us see what influences may be at work. In my judgment United States capital coming into this country is gaining control of our natural resources to the extent that it is folding them up and marketing its own products in Canada. That is what is happening with respect to coal. Maybe the miners' union was not far astray in a brief they presented to the federal government on June 6, 1948. This organization has a good research department too, and this is what they had to say as found on page 6 of the brief. Incidentally, there will be a copy of the brief in the office of the Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys (Mr. Prudham). They said:
Further decisive evidence of the manner in which the steel plants of the Dominion Steel and Coal Corporation can be expanded, of the urgent need for an inquiry to establish this and of the strong probability that national and provincial interests demand immediate investigation is provided by certain recent developments. There is now ample evidence indicating that American interests control or may shortly control Dosco's huge steel and coal empire.
This was in 1948.
The American Securities Corporation, 25 Broad street, New York, has acquired since its formation in 1946 what we understand is a substantial interest in Dominion Steel and Coal Corporation Limited. Mr. Charles G. Terry, president of American Securities Corporation and chairman of the finance committee of Colorado Fuel and Iron Corporation, is now a director of Dosco. Mr. R. J. Wysor, past president of Republic Steel Corporation, has also received a similar appointment to Dosco's board.

These appointments were in 1948, and the buying into Dominion Steel and Coal company by United States interests took place in 1946. Since 1948 up to the present time the production of steel has not expanded in the maritime provinces. At the present time some 600 men have been laid off in the steel plant, and the coal mines are folding up. I am wondering if it is not because the United States interests have sufficient control today to hold back and scrap the Canadian industry in order to market their own product in this country.
I have a photostatic copy of an advertisement here that sounds rather ridiculous for a Canadian coal company to be putting out. It is a very large advertisement in the Montreal papers and it says:
This year tell your customers to heat with the best eastern Kentucky Elkhorn coal.
That advertisement is signed by the Dominion Coal Company Limited. That company is advertising Kentucky coal in their own economic market, the Quebec markets, when they are closing up their own mines.


Mr. Maclnnis:: Paid for by subsidies from the dominion government.


Clarence Gillis: Certainly; there is no doubt a lot of it would be used for that purpose. That definitely proves that the company has no intention of mining coal with the exception of what it may need for the steel plant. Here is another clipping saying "Prince Edward Island dealers are buying United States coal". Why should they be buying it? It is because they cannot get coal from Cape Breton, so they are importing United States coal and bringing it all the way to Prince Edward Island. It is being sold in Prince Edward Island because the Dominion Steel and Coal company is not even supplying its own local market. Does that not look as if the Yanks had the inside track? It certainly does to me.
Ottawa is doing its share to cut coal out. Another newspaper dispatch indicates that no more coal is to be used at Rideau Hall. The Governor General made a trip to my part of the country a few weeks ago. I was on a few platforms with him. He took a look at the mines, his heart bled for the miners, he was sympathetic, but he came right back, cut coal out and put in oil. That was a practical way of demonstrating his sympathy; and this was only a few weeks ago.
On the other hand I find that another newspaper report indicates that more coal is
The Address-Mr. Gillis en route to South Africa. Ships are coming into Sydney, loading our coal and taking it all the way to South Africa and Brazil, where it is being manufactured into nylons which are then being sold in Canadian and United States markets. Why can we not manufacture them? Where is this great free enterprise, this risk capital and all this competition? United States interests are crossing the border and buying up our resources; and he who has economic control of this continent in the next ten years will run it. We have sold our iron ore deposits to them and we have sold our coal industry to them. They are forcing our industries to close, they are taking over the country, and most of us have not brains enough to see it. One of these days we will wake up with an American military dictatorship wrapped around our necks.
Unemployment in that part of the country is double what it was at this time last year, according to the latest figures from the unemployment insurance commission. What is it doing to these communities? There was no gradual lay-off of people in the mining communities. The general manager of Dominion Coal issued an arbitrary order over the radio closing down a certain colliery. The fact that some 1,400 men were unemployed there and that their families and the whole community, with hospital, schools and so forth, were involved did not make any difference. There was no consultation with anyone. He just said: the mine is finished; it is closed.
Another announcement came only a few days later, making 400 more unemployed. In the particular area that the hon. member for Pictou (Mr. McCulloch) represents every mine has been completely closed. I heard someone from British Columbia say their mines are also closed but that their men have gone into other industries. That is also true in Alberta, but in Nova Scotia there is no other industry. They just sit there. They are on unemployment insurance. The figure for unemployed in that mining area alone is 2,900, but that is only about half the total. That represents those who are registered and who are receiving unemployment insurance. Anyone not in receipt of unemployment insurance is not represented in that figure, and the total is double that.
Unemployment insurance will last a year or nine months for some of them. What happens after that? Where do they go from there? It amazes me to hear hon. members ask for more relief for India, Africa and China because, although I agree with that, charity begins at home. I think the first responsibility
112	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. Cillis of both the provincial and federal governments is to the people of our country, the miners who are out on the street, the steel workers who are being thrown out of work today.
A large percentage of them are boys who donned the uniform and fought for Canadian institutions. They did not do so to come back and stand on the street and live on unemployment insurance or on nothing when unemployment insurance runs out. The part of the country for which they fought is the part in which they live and have their homes. They have built their homes and communities there. Ninety-eight per cent of these people own their own homes, and if they leave there they cannot sell them. Property values are down. If they go to Ontario, Quebec or British Columbia they cannot find a home in which to live. Therefore they are stuck.
I think it would be a good idea for the immigration service to take a look at the unemployed in these areas of the maritimes and determine if it is not possible for the Canadian government to at least treat them as well as the people we are taking in from Europe. We grant such people a year's hospitalization and so on. We give money to the provinces to subsidize their education, but nothing is done for people who for years and years have paid their taxes. They build communities, they maintain hospitals, and overnight there is an arbitrary decision on the part of one of those great democrats in the field of free enterprise who can tell you that you are through working. He who controls your job controls your life under this present scheme of things.
Let us take a look at what happened with respect to hospitals. There are two good standard hospitals in the town of Glace Bay. These hospitals were built by the miners and maintained by them on a subscription basis. Each one of these men paid a dollar a week, which provided hospitalization for them; but with this present lay-off-well, I have a few figures here for one of the hospitals. The closing of 1-B and No. 24 collieries has resulted in the loss of $4,000 per month since June of this year. Income from their subscriptions for the months of March, April and May of this year amounted to $51,927.34. Income from the same service for the months of July, August and September amounted to $39,102.59, a difference of $12,824.75.
In the meantime monthly expenses have remained the same, because they had not curtailed service to the subscribers who were laid off. However, due to the fact they had no reserve funds of any kind this loss of


revenue was reflected in the amount owed the bank each month. Furthermore, the hospital is faced this year with a portion of the cost of repairing the buildings. This will probably amount to something between $12,000 and $20,000. They are trying to carry on but if something is not done to assist a hospital in that position it will have to close. It cannot carry on in that way, and the other hospital in that town is in the same situation. Sydney is finding itself in the same position as a result of closures.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I am going to say this. I think the situation in our natural resources in this country, not only in coal alone but in iron ore-iron ore is basic, as steel is basic, to the whole economy of the country-is worth investigating. Steel runs into everything. It is in all your kitchen utensils. He who controls steel on this continent in the future is going to control the North American continent. We have sold our iron ore resources to United States interests. There is no doubt about that. They are moving in on these resources and they are pushing our coal out of the picture. They are marketing their coal in this country.
I have just shown you that Dosco has very big United States financiers on the board of directors. I am beginning to wonder who is running that organization. It certainly is not being run for the benefit of Canadians. We import billions of dollars worth of steel from the United States, yet there is a basic steel industry down there that has done little except modernize and has made no planned extensions whatever. Right today this industry is laying off between 500 and 600 men at that Sydney plant.
I think the time has come, Mr. Speaker, when a commission or someone else in this country should take an inventory of our resources and ascertain exactly what is happening. We should find out who is running the show. I think the situation today is serious enough for the government to use the Emergency Powers Act. This is one time this act could be used, for this is a dire emergency for a whole province because the very foundation of our economy has been removed. If you declared a state of emergency there you could go in and find out what is wrong. You have some responsibility, at least some social responsibility, and you have the responsibility of protecting the investment you have in that industry.
The company have shown quite definitely that they have no social responsibility. They tear up communities just by arbitrary decision announced over the radio. No one lifts a

finger to do anything about it. The government leases these properties and allows someone to tear them up without any regard for future generations. I think the government should at least take a look at the picture and find out just what is happening to our resources in this country. If I were on that side of the house I would certainly say this is one time we could declare a state of emergency, at least in that province.
Let us examine the coal and steel industry, but not as that royal commission did with a whitewash report and a rehash of old resolutions and evidence that I saw thirty years ago. There was nothing new in that report, not even a new recommendation, except the recommendation to set up the coal board and that recommendation was contained in the minority report. The coal board is all right but it does not work, and perhaps it is not allowed to work.
I have suggested a good many times in this house that the coal industry should be declared a national industry. It should be brought under the coal board right from east to west. This board has the responsibility of developing markets. It could do it, but it is not doing a very good job when one sees United States coal being imported into Prince Edward Island and Dosco being permitted to import United States coal into our economic market in the province of Quebec. It is certainly not doing much about markets. It is time someone woke up and tried to do something.
Coal is not out of the picture yet, Mr. Speaker. The time will come when you are going to need the coal industry, so it should not be scrapped. There is no assurance as to how long gas and oil will last, and if we run into an emergency such as the last war, where you were pouring oil into war machines all over the world, you will certainly need coal in this country as a standby.
According to a press dispatch an eminent authority states that the coal industry has yet to reach its peak. It will come back. That is this man's judgment. Here is another peculiar thing. While we are scrapping our own industry, a press dispatch of recent date from Victoria, British Columbia, states that United States interests are launching a survey in British Columbia and Alberta in order to locate good coal fields. They are going to develop a coal field or use a good coal project in British Columbia and perhaps in Alberta.
Why do we not develop it? These interests will find a market for that coal. While we are scrapping our own industry they will come in and set up an industry in British Columbia and Alberta, and they will sell
The Address-Mr. Gillis Canadian coal to Canadians through United States interests. If the Yanks are coming here in search of coal would it not be a good idea to maintain our own resources?
I am strongly urging the Minister of Labour (Mr. Gregg) that the time has come to extend the Unemployment Insurance Act. I see no ray of hope for the employment of these men in that part of the country. Many of them have come seeking advice. They were going to go to Ontario, but I said, "No, do not go to Ontario, Quebec or anywhere else; you cannot run away from life. You might as well fight here as anywhere else. With the falling off of our defence program, perhaps in another six months Ontario and Quebec may be worse off than we are from the standpoint of unemployment, and if you are going to be unemployed and are going to live on unemployment insurance you had better be in your own home where the landlord cannot charge you $150 and kick you out the first time the rent is not paid. Live in your own home, form committees and live off unemployment insurance." If the federal and provincial governments have not enough imagination and interest to develop something in the way of subsidiary industries, or to protect the coal and steel industry, then perhaps we can do it ourselves.
There is a chain of finance in this country that was made possible by a bill introduced at the last session which established a national credit assistance act linking up all the credit unions across this country. That enabled them to lend money in other provinces, and we have a committee at the present time studying the potential of Cape Breton island, particularly as to what can be done by way of subsidiary industry. Perhaps we can set up a plate mill down there. We threw away the one we had that was built by taxpayers' money. There are many things we can do. The committee is studying that matter now. Possibly it could' be financed on a co-operative basis, and we could run the show ourselves. A great number of our people think along those lines. Once you begin to build something yourself you will find others who will try to set up something to offset it.
I am making only these two requests. I would ask the Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys (Mr. Prudham) to make an examination into what is going on in the Dominion Coal Company, to find whether the terms of the bill under which that loan was made are being carried out. Second, I am suggesting to the Minister of Labour (Mr. Gregg) that he discuss with his officials the

The Address-Mr. Maltais possibility of extending unemployment insurance to cover the period these people in that area may be unemployed; because if something like that is not done the picture looks very bleak indeed for that part of Canada.
(Translation):


Mr. Auguste Maltais (Charlevoix):: Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to offer you my most sincere congratulations on your appointment as Speaker of this house. Your well-known sense of fairness and your experience in the enforcement of the rules of the house surely qualified you as candidate for that high office.
(Text):
I should like for a few moments to speak in the English language, if in doing so I am not out of order. I deliver this portion of my remarks in English because at this time I should like to refer to the last electoral campaign. I shall be as brief as I can. May I point out that during that campaign some of us were visited by opposing speakers, the result of which was that I tried to work even harder to prove to my constituents that I was supporting the right party in my quest for victory.
Among those who visited my part of the country was the hon. member for Broadview (Mr. Hees). The incident to which I shall refer took place on a pleasant Sunday morning. Those who were privileged to make the trip down the Saguenay last year will realize how charming and peaceful is the St. Lawrence. During the campaign I followed the procedure of having people listen on my behalf to what was being said against me or the policies of the government I was supporting, so that I might answer. On the Sunday morning in question the hon. member for Broadview spoke at a rally supporting the Progressive Conservative candidate. It was reported to me by those people who listened to the hon. member, and reported also by the press, that he made the statement that the Progressive Conservative party was going to take office; that in doing so it would name an envoy to the Vatican and-I am stating what appeared in the newspapers-that the French language would be used on the same level as English in the printing of bills, and that there would be established a national flag.
I was greatly surprised to learn all this, but I told my constituents that they need not place much trust in those promises because that party was not going to be returned to power. It was with some surprise that I read in the issue of the Toronto Daily
[Mr. Gillls.l
Star of July 28 the following heading: "George Hees denies saying Tories would name envoy."
I was busy with many other duties at the time, so I did not have the opportunity to check as to the accuracy of this newspaper clipping, or as to whether the hon. member for Broadview really meant what he said. I felt that I would have an opportunity during this debate to find out from him whether he did make that statement, whether it is contrary to what he said in the constituency of Charlevoix, or whether he did not say anything about it.
As I listened this afternoon to the speech of the hon. member for Prince Albert (Mr. Diefenbaker) I noted that, in a few words in his remarks, he asked that his party be given the help of six or seven experts. Let me say that the Progressive Conservative party should feel happy that it has no experts. As I speak tonight about the housing problem I have before me a publication of the Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation, a publication prepared by experts; and I am not using it because it was prepared by experts. AH I could make out in it was the title and the last page. (Translation):
And now, Mr. Speaker, as I stated a while ago my remarks will deal more particularly with the National Housing Act and the pension for invalids.
It is said that the debate on the address in reply to the speech from the throne gives us the opportunity of setting forth some of the needs of the counties we represent, while it affords members of the opposition the opportunity of criticizing the government.
Being a member of the party that directs the destinies of the country, I hope I will be forgiven if I use these few minutes to say some good things about the government, because what happened last August surely shows that I am justified in doing so.
I still recall a famous debate of the 21st parliament, when the members of the house were voting huge sums of money for the defence of the country. I also recall the sacrifices that we then asked the Canadian people to make in order to establish that line of defence, that strong bulwark against Russian imperialism, a measure that has been justly called an insurance policy against any future war.
Now that the years have gone by, and that we are able to look back, we have reason to take pride in this action taken by the government. Recently, we have witnessed

a break in the open warfare in Korea, and we all hope that, as the President of the United States, in his recent visit here, seemed to have indicated, the allied nations will soon enjoy an era of peace and prosperity. I believe all that is the result of the action of the government which, when it was asking great sacrifices from the Canadian people, has managed to bring about amendments to the legislation which have helped our economy.
It is with pleasure that, as I was listening to the speech from the throne, I noted that the government proposed to empower the banks to place further sources of money at the disposal of the Canadian people, in authorizing them to lend money on mortgages. Frankly, I would have preferred that the government had given wider power to the Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation to enable it to grant what we call direct loans.
Since I have the honour of representing a rural constituency, I must admit quite frankly that I have not always agreed with the policy of the Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation. I remember full well the fights I had on my hands to obtain loans in certain rural districts.
The hon. member who seconded the address in reply (Mr. Villeneuve) the other day told of a father who was pointing out to his son that his country was the land in front of him, the family home. I agree with that. I too believe that for any individual the ownership of a piece of land constitutes a bond, something that causes him to appreciate more fully the advantages which a democracy is able to extend to its citizens.
We know there is a great deal to be done yet in this country in order to enable a large number of Canadians to become home owners. A few days ago I was reading a research bulletin put out by the Canadian Congress of Labour. It pointed out that more than
460,000	homes in Canada are in need of repair. It was also pointed out that many Canadians who would like to own their own homes are unable to do so because of lack of funds.
It is true that this new measure will increase the sources of mortgage loans, will help a large proportion of the population, but I wonder whether this will be of any benefit to the people. At the present time, the Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation
The Address-Mr. Maltais guarantees loans up to 80 per cent of the approximate value of a house under construction. Unfortunately, those who can afford the down payment, that is to say invest in such construction the initial amount required by the law, are not numerous. I believe it would be wise for the government to increase that guarantee of 80 per cent to 85 or 90 per cent. This has already been tried with respect to war workers, and I do not see why a similar plan could not be of help to the Canadian population regardless of occupation.
Still on this matter of the National Housing Act, sir, you will allow me no doubt to point out to you an incident, or rather to explain to you the circumstances which followed a fire in the county of Charlevoix.
I still remember with sadness the phone call I received, while parliament was in session in Ottawa, telling me that the municipality of St. Urbain was afire. I left Ottawa immediately and upon my arrival I discovered that about half of the village had been destroyed by fire. Fortunately, the victims of the fire did not lose heart; they went first to their municipal government, then to their provincial government and finally they asked me to get federal assistance for them.
I met the municipal authorities and explained to them the procedure to follow if they wanted to get some help from the federal government, for I knew at that time what was the government's policy in such matters. The established principle is that the federal government intervenes only when the provincial authorities are unable to do anything, and providing the disaster is of national importance. The proper procedure is to forward an appropriate request to the government of the province concerned. Such was the policy of the government and I do not believe it has been changed.
I had pointed out to the municipal authorities that it was advisable to submit their request through the provincial authorities. The tragedy occurred shortly before the provincial elections in Quebec and I do not know how closely that procedure has been followed. However, as far as I could ascertain, the federal government had received no request on that matter. I went back to tell my fellow citizens of St. Urbain that no request had been submitted to the central government. Other representations were then made asking [DOT] me if new attempts could not be made to get from the federal government an amount of money equal to that which had been given by

The Address-Mr. Maltais the provincial government to the victims of the disaster at St. Urbain. Unfortunately the procedure to be followed at the time of that disaster is still the same, as we found out following the fire that destroyed the parish of St. Neree in Bellechasse county. That is why when I think of those calamities, of those disasters which sometimes reach such large proportions that the individual upon whom they fall can no longer cope with them with his own resources, I wonder if it would not be appropriate to establish, here in Canada, what we would call a national relief fund to help those districts or those individuals who are sometimes victims of such calamities.
A couple of days ago I heard an hon. member ask the government if they intended doing something for those who had been victims of infantile paralysis, in Manitoba I believe. That is another typical case, where part of the population suffers from a calamity with which it cannot cope with its own income. To certain people perhaps the plan I am proposing may seem bold, but have we not, at the international level, what we call the Colombo plan, in other words a plan enabling the government to help the underprivileged nations.
I suggest that we should get together, here in Canada, and establish a special fund in order to give assistance as quickly as possible to the people of the districts struck by such calamities, for it is indeed' when one has gone through a misfortune, when one feels low and is at the end of one's resources, that help is needed, and these Canadians in distress should not have to wait for months and even years before being able to get the assistance that they need.
I submit, Mr. Speaker, that it is important -in fact we are in duty bound to do so-to set up a national fund to this end. Then, should disaster strike once more such as has been the case at St. Urbain or St. Neree, we will be in a position to help these people without waiting for the passage of legislation or for the implementation of special procedures to this end.
I was also happy to note in the speech from the throne reference to the fact that the federal government intend to request provincial co-operation in helping invalids. There is nothing sadder than to walk into a home where one of the parents or one of the sons is sitting helpless on a chair because of a disability which has handicapped him or her

for life. These poor people, who are crippled through no fault of their own, are an imposition upon their family. They live in an atmosphere where morale is automatically affected. In the world as it is today I think that the state should help these invalids.
Since the government intends to ask for provincial co-operation in this matter, I do hope that it will go as far as to bring about a plan which will be acceptable, for I am one of those who have known the plight of these disabled. As a matter of fact, allow me to point out that often some blind people write to us to say that their pension is utterly inadequate and that the limit imposed on gains or income that they may earn apart from their pension is unfair.
It seems to me that we should show more humanity towards these disabled persons. I do hope that the provinces will be generous enough to work out some program whereby these disabled persons may have something to look forward to in life.
These were, Mr. Speaker, the few remarks I wished to make in this debate. There are other problems which concern the county I have the honour to represent; I intended to bring them to your attention but I think the opportunity will be more suitable when the estimates are under consideration later on during this session.
(Text):


Mr. F. S. Follwell (Hastings South):: My
first words in this debate will be to congratulate the Speaker on his election in this twenty-second parliament. Those of us who had the opportunity of serving with the Speaker in the twenty-first parliament came to know the capable way in which he would carry out his duties, and I am sure that he will. rule this house with justice but still with firmness.
To those words I add my congratulations to you, sir, as Deputy Speaker of the twenty-second parliament. We of central Ontario, in which your constituency is located, are proud indeed that you have been honoured by your appointment.
I should like, as others have done, to congratulate the mover and seconder of the address in reply to the speech from the throne. I have been privileged to hear several of those addresses moved and seconded, but I am sure all of us who have heard such speeches before will concur in the statement that the mover and seconder did an outstanding and admirable job. Too, I am sure we should

congratulate the new ministers, the Secretary of State (Mr. Pickersgill) who has brought to the cabinet a wealth of background experience in policy making and administration; and also the Minister of Resources and Development (Mr. Lesage) who has served as a parliamentary assistant to the Secretary of State for External Affairs and to the Minister of Finance. He too has had a great deal of background experience, and I am sure both those gentlemen will add great strength to the cabinet.
I also congratulate the new parliamentary assistants: the parliamentary assistant to the Secretary of State for External Affairs (Mr. Pinard), the parliamentary assistant to the Postmaster General (Mr. Kirk), the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of National Health and Welfare (Mr. Robertson) and the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Veterans Affairs (Mr. Bennett). I am sure it is of significance for me to point out that three of those new parliamentary assistants came from what was known as the "rump" group, the Liberal group which sat to the left of the Speaker. I think all who served in this rump group are particularly pleased that three of their members from the last parliament were so honoured as to be promoted to parliamentary assistants and the junior cabinet.
There are approximately 76 new members in this new parliament, I understand, and I am sure I may be pardoned if I take the opportunity of telling them something about the constituency of Hastings South, which I represent. This constituency is situated in the province of Ontario about 120 miles east of Toronto and 230 miles west of Montreal. It is bounded on the south by that great waterway, the bay of Quinte, formed into a bay by the county of Prince Edward. Now that the Murray canal which joins the bay of Quinte and lake Ontario on the west side has been a waterway for many years that county could almost be termed "Prince Edward Island" too.
The constituency of Hastings South, according to the last dominion census, has a population of 57,500 people. The constituency is about equally divided into urban and rural sections. It is bounded on the east by the town of Deseronto and on the west by the western limits of the town of Trenton. There are within this constituency the villages of Tweed, Point Anne, Frankford, Corbyville and Batawa. There are the towns of Deseronto and Trenton and, of course, the capital city of the county, the city of Belleville. Each urban centre plays a very important part in the life and economy of this community and, in turn, in the life and economy of this great
The Address-Mr. Follwell Dominion of Canada. At one time, when the package freighters were plying up and down the bay of Quinte and through the locks, the town of Deseronto was a bustling point. It was a manufacturing centre of woodenware and the centre of a great lumbering industry. That has gone by the boards. At Deseronto we now have a plant manufacturing electronics, and with the proposed development of the deep waterway system it is quite probable that in the near future the town of Deseronto will again be a very busy port on the lake front.
As I say, on the west we have the town of Trenton which this year celebrated its 100th anniversary. Also celebrated at Trenton this year was the 100th anniversary of King Street United Church. King Street United Church was built one hundred years ago, in 1853. Celebrated too with the town's centennial was the centennial of the only newspaper in Trenton, the Courier-Advocate.
Trenton, as I say, is fast becoming a manufacturing centre. Just a few short months ago the Minister of National Revenue (Mr. McCann) came to Trenton to officially open a branch of an English industry known as the Pyro-Tenax plant.
In the constituency of Hastings South there is a Royal Canadian Air Force station at Trenton, which is the largest air force station in the Dominion of Canada. During the war hundreds of commonwealth pilots were trained at this R.C.A.F. station at Trenton, and they went forward to make that great contribution which ended in victory for the free peoples.
This afternoon my hon. friend and colleague the hon. member for Hastings-Fron-tenac (Mr. White) spoke briefly in regard to the mineral developments in the county of Hastings. He mentioned the great iron ore development near Marmora which has been carried out by the Bethlehem Steel Corporation. At the present time there are approximately 500 men working on this project and it is estimated that there is sufficient ore to last at least 20 years. As he said, this ore was discovered by magnetometer on an aerial flight.
In the north end of the county at the present time there is great action with regard to uranium. Throughout the length and breadth of the county of Hastings there are mineral deposits, and over the years they have proved to be very good little industries. A few years ago gold development in the county was active, but it now has petered out. However, who knows what will be discovered in Hastings, as in any other part of this great dominion?

The Address-Mr. Follwell
Last evening, along with several other members of parliament, I had the opportunity of attending a meeting with the textile workers' union of America, at which was discussed the necessity of doing something for the sagging textile industry. Today the textile workers' union presented a brief to several of the cabinet ministers. I have received several telegrams from the textile workers in the town of Trenton in my constituency, and they have informed me that they are now working on short time, with not much prospect of improved conditions. However, I am sure all of us were highly gratified to hear the words of the cabinet ministers who attended the meeting today, which indicated that an amendment to the Customs Act is to be proposed with regard to dumping, in order to protect the textile industry, which has always been a great employer of labour and has made an outstanding contribution to the economy of this country.
I should like to join with those members who have already spoken in this debate with regard to the request by the Canadian National Institute for the Blind. I am sure it would be well to put on record part of the memorandum which was sent to the members on behalf of the blind in this country. It reads as follows:
In 1937, pensions for the blind were established, related to the old age allowances, all being subject to the means test. The blind were permitted an addition to the means test ceiling of $120 per annum, in view of additional living cost due to blindness. From time to time, rate of allowances and ceilings were raised, with proportionate increase in ceiling for both the blind and the aged.
In the legislation of 1951, effective January 1, 1952, the Old Age Pensions Act was superseded by the old age security legislation, with an allowance of $40 per month free from the means test. Coincidentally, the blind of 21-69 years of age were segregated from the old age group and afforded blindness allowance under the Blind Persons Act of Canada, effective January 1, 1952. Under the Blind Persons Act, however, while the allowance was continued at $40 per month, the means test was retained.
On behalf of the blind in the age group 21-69 the Canadian National Institute for the Blind are now seeking justice through the amendment of the Blind Persons Act of Canada to provide a basic federal government allowance of $40 per month, freed from the means test.
The registered blind of Canada were the first seriously handicapped group to be recognized as eligible for special government allowances, and for over 17 years their needs were met in association with the old age group. In fact, their extra living costs, compared to the aged, were recognized through a slightly higher ceiling for the means test.
The net effect of the 1951 legislation was to establish a disadvantageous differential for the blind of 21-69 years of age when compared to the general age group of 70 years and over, with whom they had been associated theretofore.
It is a well recognized fact that the extra living cost due to blindness is accentuated in proportion

to activity related to income earning effort. A blindness allowance free from the means test would provide a basic security and, therefore, would be a source of encouragement in taking fuller advantage of rehabilitation services leading to productivity and additional income.
I am sure hon. members on all sides of the house view this request of the blind in a sympathetic way. I sincerely hope the government will bring in the amendment that is requested by the blind association.
Four years ago, at the first opportunity I had to speak in this house, I suggested that it would be well to broadcast the opening of parliament so that the people throughout the length and breadth of this land, from one ocean to the other, would have the opportunity of hearing their parliament opened. We now have the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation television department. I am sure we will all agree that last Saturday, when the President of the United States was here, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation did an outstanding and admirable job of televising. From those who are able to receive the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation television programs, I understand that the corporation are doing an excellent job in that field. I now suggest again that the opening of parliament be broadcast and, if possible, that portions of it be televised. It might be better if it were completely televised rather than just broadcast.
During the election campaign previous to August 10 I had occasion to tour my riding of Hastings South many times. As many of you know, Hastings South produces the best cheese produced anywhere in the Dominion of Canada. Not only that, but very frequently more cheese is produced in the county of Hastings than in any other county in the Dominion of Canada. In Belleville we have the Ontario cheese marketing board. Cheese has been a commodity that has had its ups and downs, but I am pleased to have this opportunity, on behalf of the cheese producers of the county of Hastings, to thank the Liberal government and the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner) for the way in which they have treated the cheese producers.
You will recall, I am sure, that under the co-operative marketing act of 1939 cheese production was supported to the extent of 24 cents on the basis of legislation permitting 80 per cent of the average price over the last three years. You will recall, too, that last year was a provincial election year for Ontario, so they supported cheese production with an additional 6 cents, making a base price of 30 cents. You will also recall that this year the Ontario government saw fit, whether or not because it was an election

year in the federal field, to withdraw their support of 6 cents. However, in the words of one member of the marketing board which, as I said, has its headquarters in my home city, the federal government came to the assistance of the cheese producers in the way it has always done over the years.
The federal government bought 5,500,000 pounds of cheese of last year's make at 30 cents. It paid 30 cents for that cheese to take it off the market so it would not spoil the sale of this year's make. I am informed that the government has now sold at least half this cheese at between 32 and 35 cents a pound, and the profit that has been made on this deal will now be returned to the cheese producers in the province of Ontario.
Much has been said about the decline in prices. It so happens that in the dairy field the highest prices in the history of the country are being received for dairy products. Coming back to the cheese problem I may say, as I have said in my own constituency, that it is one which is entirely a problem for the province of Ontario. The maritimes do not produce anywhere near the amount that is consumed, so Ontario sells cheese in the maritimes. In Quebec they produce slightly less than the people eat, so there again is a small market for Ontario cheese. The western provinces of course produce very little cheese, and there is a fertile market for Ontario cheese. So I say thanks to the Minister of Agriculture on behalf of the cheese producers of my constituency for the way in which the government has helped them.
During the campaign I think we heard more frequently than anything else a discussion of the lack of housing accommodation. I am sure my constituency is no different from any other. Certainly we need houses. It would be well, I think, for us to review the housing situation and what has been accomplished. It might also be well to read that portion of the speech from the throne in which reference is made to housing. It reads as follows:
While more houses are being built this year than ever before, the growing population of Canada requires a continued expansion of housing. You will be asked to consider measures to increase and broaden the supply of mortgage money so that more people with moderate incomes will be able to find facilities to assist them to build their own homes.
In the field of housing the unprecedented rate of construction which has continued throughout this year may well mean the establishment of a new record level of building accomplishment in 1953. From the beginning of the year until the end of
The Address-Mr. Follwell August nearly 54,000 new permanent houses had been completed, an all-time high for that period of any year and a figure far in excess of last year's eight months total of 41,000 units. The previous record set in the year 1950 was exceeded this year by about 2,250 completions.
During the same month new housing starts totalled 69,500 compared with 53,500 in 1952 and 61,700 in 1950. Another important factor tending to indicate a new completion record is that at the end of August 71,500 housing units were in various stages of construction as against a figure of 56,300 at August 31 of last year. Whether or not a new level of completions is reached this year will depend largely on the extent to which builders concentrate on the completion of these units rather than undertaking the construction of additional housing.
The increased production of new houses this year also reflects rising personal income accompanied by continued stability in building costs. Construction costs, which have spiralled to new levels with each post-war year, increased only slightly in the year ending last April despite the high level of construction. During that period the cost of house building, as measured by the combined index of residential building material prices and wage rates, showed a rise of only 2 per cent. Added impetus to increased house building has also been provided by an increased flow of institutional mortgage funds into the field of residential construction. In the first quarter of this year, mortgage lending for new residential construction in nonfarm areas was valued at $75-4 million and covered 11,500 dwellings. The figure represents a 38 per cent increase in amount and a 36 per cent rise in the number of dwellings over the totals for the first quarter of 1952.
The increase in institutional mortgage lending was particularly notable under the joint loan provisions of the National Housing Act, together with direct loans approved by Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation. The joint lending operations of the lending institutions and the corporation under the act reached a total of 18,500 loans for 27,000 units, and an amount of approximately $200 million during the first eight months of this year. Comparative figures for the same period of 1952 are 16,300 loans for 23,200 units and an amount of $170 million.
The production of building materials has also kept pace with the increase in building activity this year, with the output of 27 of 29 materials under review showing an increase above the figures for the first three months of 1952. Only two items, cast iron

instalments. Single family dwellings, semidetached dwellings, row housing and apartment accommodation may be financed under this section of the act. From 1946 to the end of 1952 loans amounting to $98,082,000 were approved for 20,487 units.
Again, we had the section of the act covering rental insurance. One section enables Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation to enter into a contract to guarantee an annual return on rentals for approved housing projects for a period up to 30 years. Another section provides for direct loans by lending institutions of up to 85 per cent of the lending value of rental housing projects, where such guarantee of rentals has been given by Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation. Projects must have a minimum of eight units and the term of the loan may be up to 20 years with interest at 5 per cent. Repayment for each year of the term is 2-J per cent of the principal advance, with repayment of the balance of principal at the end of the term. Maximum rentals are set by Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation for the first three years after completion of these units. Commitments for 18,269 dwellings had been issued from the inception of the plan in July, 1948, to the end of last year, 1952. Some 10,230 of these were for the Montreal metropolitan area. The estimated cost of construction of the total number of units was $134,982,000, of which $76,760,000 was advanced under section 31 A.
Then we have the legislation under the limited dividend loans.
On motion of Mr. Follwell the debate was adjourned.


[Stage Direction]
At ten o'clock the house adjourned, without question put, pursuant to standing order.
[Stage Direction]
Wednesday, November 18, 1953