1951-04-18

EFFECT OF BUDGET PROPOSALS ON PRICES


Mr. J. M. Macdonnell (Greenwood):: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a question of privilege. Speaking in the budget debate on Monday I said, among other things, as reported at page 2051 of Hansard:
I understand that the taxes on chocolates were reduced two cents a bar, but the price came down only one cent a bar.
It has been brought to my attention by the confectionery industry of Canada that that was a mistake. I wish to read a brief extract from a letter I received:
Before the interim budget was brought down last September, candy bars were selling at seven cents, with popular acceptance, as evidenced by sales.
The reimposition of the excise tax of 30 per cent meant an increase in cost to the manufacturers of 29 cents a box of 24 bars, or 1-21 cents per bar. The candy manufacturers passed on to the consumer 24 cents per box, or one cent a bar, making bars eight cents, thus absorbing five cents per box.
Due to public resistance to this tax increase and subsequent alarming decrease in sales, manufacturers reduced bars to seven cents, thus absorbing the entire tax.
The relief given the industry in the present budget is half a cent a bar, which the manufacturers cannot pass along, having absorbed the tax already.
I wish, Mr. Speaker, to express my regrets to the house and to the confectionery industry for this mistake.



RAILWAYS AND SHIPPING

[Stage Direction]
Second report of the special committee on railways and shipping owned, operated and controlled by the government.-Mr. Cleaver.

['That the petition to incorporate the Ukrainian Catholic Episcopal Corporation of Saskatchewan, presented on April 17, 1951, together with the report made thereon by the clerk of petitions on April 18, 1951, be referred1 to the standing committee on standing orders for such recommendations as may be deemed advisable.']
Hon. Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport) moved:: That votes 493, 495 and 501 of the estimates approved and reported upon this day by the sessional committee on railways and shipping owned, operated and controlled by the government be referred back to the committee of supply.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.

Mr. R. R. Knight (Saskatoon) moved:: That the petition to incorporate the Ukrainian Catholic Episcopal Corporation of Saskatchewan, presented on April 17, 1951, together with the report made thereon by the clerk of petitions on April 18, 1951, be referred1 to the standing committee on standing orders for such recommendations as may be deemed advisable.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.

[Stage Direction]
(Questions answered orally are indicated by an asterisk.)

Mr. Higgins:: 1.	Are installations being made by the United States at Goose airport?
2.	If so, what installations, and when are they to be made?
3.	What is the amount of the proposed expenditures for same?


Mr. Blanchette:: 1.	Yes.
2 and 3. From time to time the U.S. air force does work on existing buildings or adds to accommodation as required in accordance with arrangements agreed to by the Canadian government. It is not considered necessary or desirable to obtain or give detailed information including amounts of proposed expenditures being made by another friendly country in accordance with these arrangements.


PENSIONS AND FAMILY ALLOWANCES
Mr. Pouliot:: 1.	What amount has been paid in each one of the constituencies of the city of Winnipeg, for (a) old age pensions; (b) pensions to the blind; (c) family allowances?
2.	For the last twelve months, what was the number of recipients, of (a) old age pensions; (b) pensions to the blind; (e) family allowances, in each one of the constituencies of the city of Winnipeg?


Mr. McCusker:: 1 (a) and (b); 2 (a) and (b). The only recorua in connection with old age pensions and pensions for blind persons furnished to federal authorities by the provinces are the monthly

Questions
paylists and related accounting and statistical information. These records are provided solely for the purpose of enabling federal auditors to determine the amounts of federal contributions at the end of each quarter.
The Manitoba paylists show the names of persons receiving pensions from the provincial pension authority arranged in numerical order. The information requested cannot therefore be obtained from the records furnished federal authorities by the Manitoba authorities.
1 (c) and 2 (c). Family allowances statistics are maintained on a province-wide basis only. The information requested therefore is not available.


CHIROPRACTIC
Mr. Poulin:: 1.	Has the Department of National Health and Welfare contributed financially, since 1940, to the training of technicians in chiropractic?
2.	If so (a) where were such technical courses given; (b) how many persons took same; (c) how many have obtained a certificate; (d) what amount of grant is made to each holder of a certificate; (e) what is the duration of such course; (f) where did these persons practise after obtaining certificate?


Mr. McCusker:: 1.	No; no projects have been submitted by the provinces under the general health grants program for the training of technicians in chiropractic.
2.	See answer to No. 1.
Name Blue Foam Blue Spray Blue Surf Mustang Zebu Zibet Zerda Zebroid
Boston Hornet Dingo
Nor deaster I Nordeaster II Pennyson 1 Violet Dicks Tem
3.	Varieties caught are cod, haddock, rose-fish, hake, halibut and sole. Information as to quantities caught by individual trawlers not available.


ARREST OF CANADIAN NUNS IN CHINA
Mr. Gagnon:: 1.	Has the Canadian government received any report from the foreign office or other sources con-


CANADIAN ARMY
Mr. Fulton:: 1.	What were the totals of transfers by months since August 1, 1950, to date, from the Canadian army active force into the Canadian army special force?
2.	Are these totals included in the figures given of the totals of enlistments in the Canadian army special force?


Mr. Blanchette:: 1.	August, 1950	 38
September	 110
October	 170
November	 464
December	 147
January, 1951	 157
February	 236
To March 31	-	65
2.	No.


NEWFOUNDLAND
Mr. Browne (St. John's West):: 1.	What are the names of the trawlers operating out of Newfoundland?
2.	Who are their respective owners, and out of what ports do they operate?
3.	What varieties of fish, and what quantities of each were caught by each of the said trawlers in 1950?


Mr. MacNaughl:: 1 and 2.
Port from which operated St. John's St. John's St. John's Burin Burin Burin Burin Burin Burin Burin
Harbour Grace Harbour Grace Ramea St. John's Burin * 2 3 4 5
cerning the arrest of Canadian nuns in China, since March 20, 1951?
2.	If so, on what date, and what is the tenor of such report?
3.	Have any protests against the conduct of the Chinese government in this matter been sent to the United Nations council?
4.	If so, when, and in what form?
5.	Is the government taking steps in order to help these nuns, and to repatriate them if necessary?
Owner
Northlantic Trawling Co. Ltd. Northlantic Trawling Co. Ltd. Northlantic Trawling Co. Ltd.
Fishery Products Ltd.
Fishery Products Ltd.
Fishery Products Ltd.
Fishery Products Ltd.
Fishery Products Ltd.
Fishery Products Ltd.
Blue Water Shipping Co. Ltd.
North Eastern Fish Industries Ltd. North Eastern Fish Industries Ltd. John Penny & Sons Ltd.
A. Wareham & Sons Ltd.
Christensen Canadian Enterprises Ltd.


Mr. Lesage:: 1.	Yes.
2.	Canadian trade commissioner, Hong Kong, March 20, April 2; Canadian consulate general, Shanghai, March 28; United Kingdom foreign office, March 29, April 2 and April 3. Information about the tenor of these reports is contained in the answer made by the Secretary of State for External Affairs on April 16 to the question of the hon. member for Saguenay (Mr. Brisson).
3.	Under article 35 of the charter of the United Nations, a member of the United Nations may bring a dispute or a situation to the attention of the security council only if the continuance of that dispute or situation is likely to endanger the maintenance of international peace and security.
4.	Answered by No. 3.
5.	Yes.


CANADIAN ARMED FORCES
Mr. Fulton:: 1.	What were the totals of enlistments in the Royal Canadian Navy, the Canadian army active force, the Canadian army special force, and the Royal Canadian Air Force respectively, for the month of March, 1951?
2.	What were the totals of all releases from each service as above for the same month?


Mr. Blanchette:: 1 and 2.
Enlistments Releases
Royal Canadian Navy . .	. . 591	158Canadian Army	. . 1,056	580Royal Canadian Air Force	. . 1,245	79
Recruiting for the special force was carried on only to a very limited extent subsequent to the month of September, 1950, and was stopped entirely on March 21, 1951.



Mr. Fulton:: What were the total expenditures for each of the first three months of the current year on recruiting advertisements and posters for all three services, including reserves and cadets?


Joseph-Adéodat Blanchette: January, 1951, $172,401.89; February, 1951,	$223,170.47; March, 1951,


$315,177.32. QUESTION PASSED AS ORDER FOR RETURN NEWFOUNDLAND    EXPORTS OF FROZEN AND FRESH FISH
Mr. Browne (St. John's West):: 1. What was the export value of frozen and fresh fish exported from Newfoundland in 1950?
Questions
2.	What was the quantity and value of lobsters exported from Newfoundland in the years 1946 to 1950?
3.	To what markets were the same exported?


Mr. Mcllrailh:: Return tabled.


MOTION FOR PAPERS
Mr. Diefenbaker:: For a return showing a list of all (a) real property; (b) buildings, _ sold or disposed of by War Assets Corporation to the value of $25,000 or more between the first day of January, 1946, and the first day of April, 1951, and the names and addresses of the persons to whom such sales, or disposal, were made.


George James McIlraith: Mr. Speaker, I have spoken to the hon. member who is moving this motion, and I would ask that it be permitted to stand.
Motion stands.



POSTAL SERVICE


Mr. L. Langlois (Parliamentary Assistant to the Postmaster General):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to refer to a question which was asked on Friday last by the leader of the opposition (Mr. Drew), as reported at page 1987 of Hansard. I indicated at that time that I was going to investigate the matter and report to the house. I had planned on making a statement yesterday, but as the hon. member was not in his seat I thought it preferable to wait until today.
The existing legislation provides a rate of four cents on a letter, and makes an exception when the letters are not transmitted through the mails but are posted and delivered at the same office. In the latter case the rate known as the drop letter rate is three cents. Postage rates on letters are therefore statutory, and the Postmaster General has no latitude.
Letter carrier delivery is an expensive service, and it would be unnecessarily wasteful and economically indefensible to grant letter carrier delivery to every residence within municipal boundaries. Furthermore, there are certain conditions which govern the establishment of the letter carrier delivery service, such as:
1.	The area to be served shall be immediately adjacent to the existing letter carrier delivery boundaries.
2.	It shall be compactly built up, so that the letter carrier is not traversing vacant spaces in giving delivery.

Postal Service
3.	The average distance between points of call must not exceed forty yards.
4.	In the proposed letter carrier delivery area there must be good walking conditions, namely, sidewalks, paved or good gravel roads, open and traversable under all weather conditions.
5.	There must be suitable walks from the street line to the residences.
6.	Houses must be systematically numbered, and before delivery begins must be equipped with mail receptacles or slots in the doors.
7.	Streets must be named, and the names must not conflict with street names already served by letter carrier delivery.
8.	Streets must be labelled at intersections.
These involve a certain amount of co-operation on the part of the residents themselves; but when the conditions are complied with, and the area is such as to justify any necessary expense involved, the department is always willing to give the matter the most favourable consideration.
The postal needs of the added areas have been very carefully studied and, as I stated here on Friday last, the result has been fully and satisfactorily explained to a delegation representing the city of Ottawa, which included His Worship the Mayor. A full statement of the position at that time was contained in a follow-up letter to the mayor, a copy of which was sent on February 27 to the leader of the opposition.
Our latest reports indicate that before long some of the areas will have complied with the conditions and will then receive the promised service.
Dealing particularly with the city of Ottawa, the boundaries have been extended to an unusual degree. To grant the drop letter rate to all residences within the area would, as indicated a moment ago, not only be inconsistent with the provisions of the act but would create an undesirable precedent, and it is not felt that there is any justifiable reason for treating one city differently from other cities in Canada so far as this question of the drop letter rate is concerned.
In conclusion may I be permitted to add that the difficulties experienced by residents of the districts involved could to a great extent be avoided if they always gave their correct post office address on their letterheads or stationery, and each time gave their address, such as Westboro post office, Wood-roffe post office, Carlington post office, etc., instead of simply using their street address and ''Ottawa".


Mr. George A. Drew (Leader of the Opposition):: Mr. Speaker, I would point out that the answer given by the parliamentary assistant does not cover one very important consideration. I pointed out to the Postmaster General (Mr. Rinfret), in the letter in which I brought this matter to his attention most recently, that if there is any difficulty in dealing with this question an amendment could be made, as parliament is now in session.
My question was directed also to whether it is the intention of the department to cure this very real injustice, because there is no way in which a person living in these areas, whether it be Ottawa or anywhere else, can prevent the payment of penalty postage in addition to the ordinary extra postage when circulars and catalogues and things of that sort are sent to him by commercial houses in the city under the natural assumption that the same postage rate applies throughout the whole city.


J. G. Léopold Langlois: I have made it clear in my statement that there is no discrimination against one city or another, or against Ottawa in particular. The Post Office Act applies equally and evenly to all cities and sections of Canada. The hon. member surely realizes that an amendment such as he suggests would be a matter of government policy. It is not, however, to my knowledge that such an amendment is contemplated.


Mr. Graydon:: May I ask the parliamentary assistant whether any revision of the Post Office Act is under contemplation for introduction during this session? I understand that some work is being done on the matter by government officials.


J. G. Léopold Langlois: That, again, is a matter of government policy which will be announced in due course.


Gordon Graydon: May I ask the parliamentary assistant if he is aware that the Post Office Department's public relations have now reached a new low?



TORONTO MAIL CARRIERS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. J. W. Noseworihy (York Souih):: In
the absence of the Postmaster General I should like to direct a question to his parliamentary assistant. Will he give us a report on the result of the department's investigation of the working hours and other working conditions of the mail carriers in Toronto, and tell us what, if any, changes have been made as a result of the investigation?


J. G. Léopold Langlois: I respectfully submit that such a question should be put on the order paper. However, I received no notice of it but I will take the question as notice and answer it in due course.



VETERANS AFFAIRS


Hon. Alphonse Fournier (for the Minister of Finance) moved: that the house go into committee at the next sitting to consider the following resolution:
That it is expedient to introduce a measure to amend the Veterans Business and Professional Loans Act to make the act applicable to a greater number of veterans and to enlarge the period within which guaranteed loans may be made under the act.
He said: His Excellency the Governor General, having been made acquainted with the subject matter of this resolution, recommends it to the consideration of the house.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.


Right Hon. L. S. St. Laurent (Prime Minister) moved:: That in relation to the adjourned debate on the motion of the Minister of Finance that Mr. Speaker do leave the chair for the house to resolve itself again into committee of ways and means and any amendment or amendments thereto, on the budget brought down Tuesday, April 10, 1951, the provisions of standing order 28 be suspended until the said debate be concluded.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.	.


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. E. B. Huffman (Kent, Onl.):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Transport. In the Globe and Mail under date of April 18, and on the radio, it has been stated that all freight service for farm produce from rural centres in the London district, which includes the greater part of southwestern Ontario, will be discontinued on Saturdays as of June 1. Can the minister say whether this statement is correct, or will the present service be continued?


Lionel Chevrier: Mr. Speaker, I did not read the statement in the Globe and Mail to which my hon. friend has reference, but I heard it 80709-138
Inquiries of the Ministry over the radio, and the statement made over the radio is inaccurate. From the information I have, when both railways put the forty-hour week into operation they will not in any way affect carload shipments. In other words, the regulations as to carload shipments or more will remain in operation as they are at present. Less than carload lots will be affected to this extent, that instead of receiving shipments on six days of the week they will be received on five days only.



QUESTION AS TO OFFER MADE BY CANADA TO INDIA

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
John George Diefenbaker: Mr. Speaker, I wish to direct a question to the Secretary of State for External Affairs arising out of a press dispatch with reference to a statement made in the parliament at New Delhi, India, by the deputy food minister, Mr. Rao, with respect to Canadian wheat being shipped to India in order to relieve the starvation faced by some forty million Indians. Are negotiations proceeding with a view to providing wheat under the Colombo pact in order to alleviate the conditions in which so many of our fellow members of the commonwealth find themselves today by reason of food shortages?


Hon. L. B. Pearson (Secretary of State for External Affairs):: Mr. Speaker, the position in this matter remains as stated by me on April 9 in answer to a question by the hon. member for Rosetown-Biggar. I have seen the reports to which the hon. member for Lake Centre refers, but have not had any confirmation of them from official sources. In any event, I think these reports would not contradict what I said on April 9. They merely indicate that the Indian government prefers not to take as part of our contribution to the Colombo plan class 5 and 6 wheat now but rather to wait until later in the year when they might be able to get wheat of a higher grade.


John George Diefenbaker: Has the Indian government agreed to accept wheat from Canada later in the year as part of the Colombo plan?


Lester Bowles Pearson: Yes, they have agreed to accept wheat as part of the Colombo plan, the proceeds from the sale of which would go into capital development in India.



POULTRY


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. G. R. Pearkes (Nanaimo):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the

Inquiries of the Ministry Minister of Agriculture. Are officers of his department using a British vaccine with the idea of curbing Newcastle disease in British Columbia? If so, will the minister say what results have been achieved?


Right Hon. J. G. Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture):: The hon. member was kind enough to send me a copy of his question, and I have had an answer prepared. British vaccine is not being used to curb Newcastle disease in British Columbia. Vaccine used is produced at the animal diseases research institute, Hull, province of Quebec, and is known as the Doyle-Wright vaccine, being made according to the formula of Doyle and Wright, British scientists.
The original issue of this vaccine was found of too high a potency for British Columbia poultry and did not protect as expected. The potency of the vaccine was reduced as of March 31, 1951. Since that date up until today there have been 124 flocks, comprising 81,068 birds, vaccinated with the modified vaccine. No outbreaks have so far occurred among any of these birds, therefore it may be assumed that the results following the use of the modified vaccine have been quite satisfactory.



REPORTED ARREST OF MISSIONARY SISTERS BY CHINESE COMMUNISTS

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Edmund Davie Fulton: Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Secretary of State for External Affairs. Today's press carries a report that further Catholic sisters in China have been arrested, on the same sort of malicious charges concerning their orphanage as the five Canadian sisters who were previously arrested, and that some of these sisters just now arrested are also Canadians. Is the minister in a position to confirm or deny these reports?


Lester Bowles Pearson: No, Mr. Speaker, but we are looking into the matter.


Gordon Graydon: Can the minister give some indication offhand as to the number of Christian missionaries still in Red Chinese territory?


Lester Bowles Pearson: I have no idea how many Christian missionaries there are in Red China.	We have an estimate of the
number	of	Canadians in Red China,
but I should not like to give that figure offhand. I will see if there is any information that can be obtained, and I will give it to the house at a later date.



AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Arthur Laing (Vancouver South):: Mr. Speaker, in the absence of the Minister of Finance I should like to direct a question to the parliamentary assistant. It arises out of an answer made by the Minister of Agriculture on Monday last dealing with the winter killing of fruit trees in the Okanagan valley. Has the Minister of Finance given consideration to a revision of the provisions of the Farm Improvement Loans Act to provide for the removal of dead trees as well as the purchase and planting of replacements.


Mr. James Sinclair (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Finance):: The Minister of Finance (Mr. Abbott) and the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner) have been giving consideration to the proposal made by the hon. member for Vancouver South on behalf of the fruit growers of the Okanagan valley. Hon. members will recall that the Farm Improvement Loans Act does permit the chartered banks to make loans for the purchase and planting of new trees and also for clearing land. The Minister of Finance, therefore, thought it was reasonable and within the intent of the act to extend the regulations to cover also loans to be made for the removal of the frost-bitten trees before the purchase and planting of new trees.


Edmund Davie Fulton: May I ask why the Minister of Finance waited until the hon. member for Vancouver South made that request, in view of the fact that when the matter was discussed earlier in the house-


Mr. Speaker:: Order.


Edmund Davie Fulton: -on the amendment to the Farm Improvement Loans Act, I made exactly the same request?


Some hon. Members:: Order.


Edmund Davie Fulton: I am sorry, Mr. Speaker; I did not observe that you were on your feet.


Mr. Speaker:: I could not hear all the question, but I do not think it is one that should be asked at this time.



ESSENTIAL MATERIALS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. G. K. Fraser (Peterborough West):: should like to ask the Minister of Trade and Commerce what safeguards are being maintained by the government of Canada to see that essential materials are not shipped out

of Canada to communist countries, such as the five carloads of wool rags worth $77,000 which, according to a report from Washington, have been held up at Boston by United States authorities?


Right Hon. C. D. Howe (Minister of Trade and Commerce):: Under the Export and
Import Permits Act very tight control is imposed on shipments to countries behind the iron curtain. In the case of the wool tops the shipment was made to what was believed to be a reputable house in Boston. Through some juggling of the export permits the material was being transshipped to one of the communist countries, I believe Poland. In co-operation with the United States authorities the situation was investigated, the shipment was halted, and consideration is being given to a prosecution as soon as the facts are made clear as to responsibility.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: Will this firm in Boston now be put on the blacklist so far as shipments of that kind are concerned?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I cannot say as to that. It will depend on the action that may be determined upon by the authorities of Canada and the United States.


Gordon Graydon: May I ask the minister if this is the first case of this kind that has come to the attention of the government?


Clarence Decatur Howe: It is the first that has come to my attention.



THE BUDGET


[Stage Direction]
The house resumed, from Tuesday, April 17, consideration of the motion of Hon. Douglas Abbott (Minister of Finance) that Mr. Speaker do now leave the chair for the house to go into committee of ways and means, and the amendment thereto of Mr. Macdonnell (Greenwood), and the amendment to the amendment of Mr. Coldwell.
Mr. Ralph Maybank (Winnipeg South Cenire):: Mr. Speaker, the expression "swan song" is apparently of ancient lineage. It has been suggested that philosophers of very olden times came to believe in the idea that swans sang, by a process of deductive logic which ran like this: All birds sing; a swan is a bird; therefore swans sing. But no one has ever heard a swan sing. Hence these ancients squared their logical conclusion with the failure of any person ever to hear a swan sing, by asserting that since no one was ever about when the swan died, probably it was at the time of death that she burst into song. This idea apparently was accepted and 80709-138J
The Budget-Mr. Maybank gained great currency. Poets and writers have popularized it from that time onward. Only recently I was reading "The Isles of Greece" by Byron, and I ran across this line: "There, swan-like, let me sing and die".
The swan is a beautiful bird. The swan is about as graceful a creature as we have. Usually we picture her as pure white, and, indeed, she is taken as an emblem of purity.
I lack any and all of the attributes of a swan.
Again, according to lore, her song is a deathbed lament, or dirge. While I cannot foresee, being neither a prophet nor the son of a prophet, I do not feel as though I am going to die soon. Because of my unswan-likeness, and the fact that I am still pulsating with life, I do not give the name "swan song" to my remarks today; but this will be my last appearance in the house.
Before bidding farewell, however, I should like to express myself on one or two questions that are before the house and the country at this time.
The first of these is old age security. We are engaged in, what for us, is a very large program of preparation for conflict, and we have the hope that preparation will avoid that conflict. There is no disagreement as to the essentiality of what we are attempting. But we must not allow ourselves ever to say that the essentiality of old age security is less than the essentiality of guns and ammunition.
I have been privileged to see a number of reforms since coming into this house. I have seen many old age pension improvements. I have seen love and appreciation for children translated into concrete legislation in their behalf. I have seen health improvement plans instituted, and I have seen them bring great benefits. I have seen unemployment scientifically attacked by unemployment insurance. I have seen enacted for veterans the best legislation known to the world.
For all this and more the governments and parliaments which did these things are to be praised, and I do praise them.
A good system of old age pensions such as is now proposed by the government can be the coping stone of the edifice so far erected. I hope and expect that will come about this year. I have worked unceasingly for such a measure, and I take pride in the knowledge that it is near. I adjure everyone to press forward the plans. Do not let the fabrication of war materiel be financed by continued penury of aged people.
Before us is another great humanitarian project. Its locale is outside the boundaries

The Budget-Mr. Maybank of Canada, but it will return to Canada incalculable spiritual, political, and economic benefits. I refer to that splendidly conceived program for the uplift of people who live in darkness, squalor, poverty and disease, and every kind of misery in south and southeastern Asia.
It is known as the Colombo plan, and I love the knowledge that it was born while I was here. It can signalize a new day for all the world.
In this scheme for aid we have come completely around the circle from the political ideas which obtained in and prior to the year 1776. At that time Adam Smith wrote that "beggar my neighbour" was the chief motive of government policy. Fortunately civilized people repented of that motive and broke away from it. Mankind came to hold it was not a good motive for government action; but a very bad motive. There, however, we stopped. We did not go on and declare that "uplift my neighbour" was a good maxim of government; and, of course, we did not frame policies to any such end. But lately mankind has begun to talk about the "interdependence" of nations, and this idea of interdependence is gaining wide acceptance.
With the advent of the Colombo plan, we in Canada, with a number of other nations, are proceeding to act upon the true interdependence idea. We are making the idea dynamic. We are seeking to uplift our neighbours.
Let me ask you for just a few minutes to look at the problem, the plan itself, and at the hoped-for results from it. In south and southeast Asia there are 570 million people. That number is one-quarter of the world's population. Their economic level is very low, but I would not say they are the poorest in all the world. Amongst the other three-quarters of the world population there are millions even worse oil than these. Even amongst the white race, which is a peculiarly favoured segment of the human race, we have great sections of poverty and suffering. On this continent we are a good deal like a rich suburb surrounded by slums. Neither this country, nor any other, can afford to have, within its boundaries, permanent slums. There must be clearance. Nor can the world continue to have vast slum areas. Either those at the bottom will be lifted up or those higher up will eventually be pulled down.
The one-quarter of the world's population now envisaged is not poor in natural wealth, but its potential has not been touched by the revolution in methods which in the last hundred and fifty years have catapulted the western world ahead. Poor even as they are in south and southeastern Asia, they export

nearly all the world's jute, and most of the world's natural rubber. From them we get three-quarters of the world's tea, two-thirds of its tin, and one-third of its oil and fats. Rice, cotton and sugar are likewise produced in quantity, but industrial production is negligible. The 570 millions cannot live on what is produced; indeed they can barely exist.
The situation is worse even than such a statement suggests. The 570 million are increasing. The count of mouths for food goes up, and ever up; the measure of food to fill mouths goes down, and ever down. When one thinks of the vast number of people of Asia, he will think of malnutrition and disease; of rickets and tuberculosis; of vermin and filth and squalor. All such abound. One will think of blindness and maimed bodies; of hunger and thirst to the point of chronic torture. Everywhere there is helplessness and hopelessness to the point of despair. There is not even clothing. In Pakistan people must make-do with no more than nine yards of cotton in a year. Of course, shelter is terrible.
Some people appreciate or apprehend a condition better from a statistic than any other way. For them some comparisons may be offered. Whereas Britain is served by roads to the point of 3-7 miles per thousand of population, in Pakistan they have one-tenth of a mile. As to telephones, the United States has 261 for one thousand people, Britain 98 and Canada somewhere between the two, but in Ceylon there are only 2-2, and only a small fraction of that in India and Pakistan. So, one could go on to give similar figures for all these commodities, the consumption of which is used to measure national welfare.
However we view it, the picture of the plight of these people is enough to break one's heart. But if the horror of it all will not break a man's heart, it ought to frighten him in his mind. Any man who looks at this sort of conditions with complacency is a fool. Widespread misery is bound to have its effect on others. As inexorable as the flow of the tides of the sea is the certainty that misery of this sort will destroy the wellbeing of people like ourselves. The island of luxury will be engulfed by the stinking flood of poverty around it.
We talk today as if communism were our sole foe. That is nonsense. Certainly it is our enemy, and we must stop it or perish. But do you think we shall be secure when we have destroyed that devil? Well, we shall not be secure then, and incidentally if that is the sum total of our aims we shall not deserve to be at peace and to be secure.

Anyway, we cannot stop communism with a gun. It is an idea, and guns cannot be sighted on an idea. Russian imperialism we can down, but to put down the idea which gives strength to that imperialism we have to remove the conditions which nourish it. We must remember that while we see tyranny as we look at Russia and her system, millions of outcasts see liberation from rapacity of overlords. They see a plan. They will believe that the plan may end their misery. Tyranny does not frighten them; that is all they have ever known.
The first important feature that strikes me about the Colombo plan is that it is co-operative; both the recipient and those who give are working together. Some of the beneficiaries will help others. No one will assert that merely doling out largess is the best way to help people. This is a fault sometimes found with the endeavours of the United States, sincere and charitably motivated as they are. It is always better to help people help themselves. The proposal under this Colombo plan is to spend $5 billion over a period of six years. Each commonwealth nation will subscribe its share. The nations which benefit will put up what they can. Our share is $150 million, which is $25 million per year. This comes to a little less than $2 per head per year for Canadians. Our share is no more than it should be, or could be. The Canadian people would willingly contribute more if they were made to see the need and the benefits. The world cannot suffer from too much benevolence.
I should never like to be caught, and I should not like any Canadian government to be caught, in the way a certain rich man was caught when he went to heaven. He had difficulty, when he came to the gate, in thinking up data about his own charities. The admitting seraph was a little bit dubious about allowing him into the celestial regions; so he sought the advice of St. Peter. He reported that the only benevolence the rich man had been able to recall was a ten-cent gift, one time, to a beggar on the street. St. Peter was reading-probably one of the Winnipeg daily papers-and he looked up from the sheet. Laconically he addressed the angel and said: "Oh, give him back his dime and tell him to go to hell."
In respect of this matter and this project, sir, I should hope that it will be found, before the end of the story is written-as has been the case in many other instances-that Canada will be doing more than she has contracted to do.
It will be of value to glance at the uses to which the $5 billion will be put. The various
The Budget-Mr. Maybank benefiting nations naturally are proposing different ways of applying the money. Pakistan will use 32 per cent of her allotment in improving agriculture, and 20 per cent in improving transport and communications. One scheme is to build a great barrage across the Indus, in order to irrigate three million acres of land. Another project will irrigate 700,000 acres. Pakistan also proposes to develop industry and mining. Fuel and hydroelectric power will absorb a large part of the fund.
India with her population of 350 millions will spend the largest proportion in the improvement of industries. She will harness some of her great rivers and open up some of her rich mineral sections. Ceylon, Singapore, Borneo and other places will make appropriate uses of the money allocated to them.
As an end result of some of the developments to be undertaken we shall find such an increase in wealth creation as to be startling. At the present time people over there use, as I have said, only about nine yards of cloth per person a year. This can be increased to seventeen yards. They will have thirteen million acres more land under cultivation. Thirteen million acres more will be under irrigation. Food grain production will be increased by six million tons. Bear in mind that food consumption is of the low average of 2,000 calories a day. Twelve ounces of cereals per day is often the total supply of food for a man. Kilowatt hours of electricity will be increased by 1,100,000. Many more direct benefits will result. The accrual of indirect benefits will be almost endless.
As is said in a little booklet put out by the British government:
Help being forthcoming, there is real ground for hope that the peoples of these areas will gradually succeed in winning for themselves a higher material standard of living than they have known in the past. A long road lies ahead of them, and there are many difficulties and dangers to be overcome, but with the support and encouragement of the other free peoples of the world, they will surely prove equal to the challenge and achieve the measure of prosperity and well being which is their due.
Looking at the whole picture one can state with assurance that, because of what we now do, millions of people will enjoy a better standard of living than ever before in the history of these countries, and, further, that such a result will be an inspiration for other acts to be undertaken, so that this which shall have been done will be but an earnest of that which will afterward be accomplished.
Any who have a part in such a project are entitled to be proud. There is no higher form of service. Burke's studied panegyric

The Budget-Mr. Mayhank on Fox is the only rhetoric that comes anywhere near adequacy in describing actions of persons responsible for such a beneficence as this, as well its conception, its development, its enactment into law, and its execution. Burke spoke of Fox in terms of praise to a degree that probably no orator has ever equalled, let alone surpassed; and, after it would seem he had reached the zenith of his peroration, he coupled with the name of his then friend the House of Commons itself, in these words:
In confess I anticipate with joy the reward of those whose whole consequence, power and authority exist only for the benefit of mankind; and I carry my mind to all the people, and all the names and descriptions that, relieved by this act, will bless the labours of this parliament and the confidence which the best House of Commons has given to him who best deserves it. The little cavils of party will not be heard where freedom and happiness will be felt. There is not a tongue, a nation or religion in India which will not bless the presiding *care and manly beneficence of this house and of 'him who proposes to you this great work. Your names will never be separated before the throne of the Divine Goodness in whatever language or with whatever rites pardon is asked for sin and reward for those who imitate the Godhead in His universal bounty to His creatures. These honours you deserve, and they will surely be paid when all the jargon of influence of party and patronage are swept into oblivion.
The whole eulogy will well repay anyone's reading, and its terms, with appropriate changes for time, and place, and persons, apply to those who are today taking part in this magnificent beneficence.
I wanted particularly, Mr. Speaker, to speak of certain matters of public concern. I have done so. I have said what I intended to say upon matters of public importance. May I now be permitted to make some remarks of a personal nature.
This is my last opportunity to make public confession of my feelings towards my colleagues in this house and the many other pleasant and esteemed persons with whom I have been privileged to associate for all or part of sixteen years. I would emulate Art Smith of Calgary in expressing my appreciation to all those persons attached to this building in serving in one way or another the members of the House of Commons. There is no exception I could make in applying to men and women about us the adjectives "smiling, considerate and courteous."
Entering the front door of this building on either of two levels, one is invariably met with a cheery greeting. Post office employees offer help before it is asked. Down the corridors, in the carpenter shop, the barber shop, the mailing room, at the accountant's desk, everywhere, pleasantness is invariable. I have a special word of praise
[Mr. Maybank.l
for one, namely, the master of the keys. I am continually losing mine. As for the stenographic pool, as hon. members know, there one gets charm as well as friendship. I do not know what institution could be better served than we are by the messenger service we have; it is prompt, efficient and courteous. You do not have to make yourself believe you are dealing with gentlemen when you are dealing with one of them; you just know it the moment you deal with him. Gentlemanly service at all times is what you get.
I agree with what Mr. Smith said about Hansard, its reporters and its editors. I have never had the hardihood to do what he asserted he did. He said he read some of his own speeches and that Hansard had made them into good oratory. If they have done that with mine, I should like to compliment them now on being able to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
As to the officers of the house, the Clerks, the Sergeant-at-Arms, and the page boys-if we have bothered them, as we must have done many times, they have never shown that they noticed it. The impression I have always had among those who are about us in the house is that there seemed to be a vying one with the other to be of service to us.
Not all persons can be named in a speech of this kind, but I should be remiss if I failed to mention the purveyors of food. In the cafeteria and the restaurant everybody is so nice to us always that, if at any time one is low-spirited, he has himself mentally facelifted when he receives their service and their food.
After sixteen years I can do some reminiscing, and I should like to mention a few members who have been here in my time. I well remember R. B. Bennett, later Lord Bennett; and what I remember particularly about him was his astounding ability to fight and never stop fighting. I have heard him join issue on questions here as many as a dozen times a day, and always with great energy. We of the party to which I belong did not generally agree with him, but he was a great Canadian.
Jim Woodsworth was another-no question in my mind about that. I knew him for many years, long before I came to the house. I knew him well in the house. I suppose our disagreements with him were as great as they were with R. B. But he, too, was a great Canadian.
I remember with much pride my association with men like Mark Senn, Karl Homuth, Ewen Matthews and Lester Douglas, who left

here but lately, but whom I remember for a long time back * and it was a privilege to know them.
Going back further there was Sam Jacobs. He was a great and colourful commoner. He remarked philosophically at one time, when he was not appointed to the Senate despite the urgings of many Gentile friends that he should be appointed: "Oh, it is all right; I haven't any complaint. I feel I have been given Jew consideration".
There have been many good men, so many good men whom I have met here that I cannot begin to name them all. There is one, however, who is still living in British Columbia, in retirement, whom I should like to name; I refer to Hon. Grote Stirling. I have great respect for him. Mr. and Mrs. George Black, both of whom were M.P.'s, must close my list of celebrated people I have known in the house, but I feel guilty about the many I have failed to mention.
I have deliberately kept below cabinet level, in the main, as befits one below that level himself. Mr. Speaker, I should like to leave behind me a few wishes and hopes. I have mentioned the page boys, and in respect to them I have the wish and hope that the kindly guardianship of our respected friend from Fort William (Mr. Mclvor) will continue over them, and that they will accept him as their mentor. They can't go wrong on the advice of the lakeshead sky pilot.
I have some other wishes.
About six months ago I changed my sartorial habits; I began to wear bow ties. This change occurred through the generosity of the Secretary of State for External Affairs (Mr. Pearson). He began to pass on to me the ties he was discarding. Now that I am leaving these parts, I wish he would distribute his old neckwear to the members generally. I used to wear them in order to acquire an air of distinction. He need not give any to the Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent); that gentleman is distinguished enough already.
It will not surprise anyone when I say I wish well for the leader of the opposition (Mr. Drew). Although we have not always seen eye to eye, I have for him feelings of regard and esteem. I am pleased to say publicly, as I have already said to him privately, how much I appreciated his sportsmanship and good humour when, at Christmas, after the general election, he sent to all of us a bit of rhyme in which he sort of joked at his own expense over his not-so-good election fortunes. I considered it very sporting; it showed his head was bloody but unbowed. I wish him every success. I mean, of course-and I know he will take no
The Budget-Mr. Maybank offence over this qualification-I mean every success as leader of the opposition. May he long be spared to lead His Majesty's Loyal Opposition.
To the other groups in the house, and to their leaders, I also express my best wishes. I have no objections to the existence of a threat on the flank; I think it is a good thing, but I am not in favour of its developing to anything more than a threat.
I wish the Secretary of State for External Affairs would do something about making the hon. member for Moose Jaw (Mr. Thatcher) another parliamentary assistant in * his department. This is because that member can get fast action in foreign countries. Newspaper headlines about a week ago said two things: No. 1, "Thatcher attacks General MacArthur";	No.	2, "Truman	fires
MacArthur".
There is a member on this side of the house respecting whom I should like to say something, and to whom I would ask you, Mr. Speaker, to direct your attention.	Our
member for Dauphin (Mr. Ward) has started to catch and process whales. The steaks from these whales are valuable in more ways than one. First of all, they are good substantial food. Secondly, this meat is filled with hormones-or "hormonees"; I am not sure as to the correct pronunciation. It is said even to be an aphrodisiac. When whale meat is fed to male minks their potency is greatly increased; and when it is fed to female minks their litters are larger. I wish success to the hon. member for Dauphin, and I hope he distributes his product widely. He will relieve much pressure from the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration (Mr. Harris), if he does. After this plug by me, I think the hon. member will experience a terrific senatorial demand for whale steaks.
After the turr debate a little while back, I heard someone speak of men from the big eastern island as "turreadors." No offence is intended. For all of our brethren from Newfoundland I wish that they would come to my province and we will let them shoot all the grain-fed duck, prairie chicken and partridge that they may wish. They are better than turrs. If there are any interfering laws in Winnipeg, Newfoundlanders need not worry. They are grand people and we will not enforce the laws where they are concerned.
I did not mention the press when I was paying my respects to the various people here who serve us. I wish to say now how well the fourth estate has always behaved towards this House of Commons. With the thousands

The Budget-Mr. Maybank of reports made and articles written, doubtless comprising millions of words, it is a matter for special remark how seldom anyone has to claim misquotation. I take pleasure in testifying that I have always and everywhere been treated by the press, not merely with fairness but indeed with generosity. It is not amiss I think that I should offer a wish for the gentlemen of the gallery, in addition of course to the very natural one that springs to mind immediately, of continued good relations with this house.
The fraternity has had some domestic trouble lately, and one would wish for them that there should be no more. It must be very sad for this family to be struck at, even if not struck down, from within their own midst. Let us hope that iconoclasts will find other icons to topple over rather than the fourth estate itself. With all the trouble of dealing with this government, this opposition, these opposition groups, and all these members of parliament, the men of the press have a sufficiently heavy "Cross" to bear already.
Facetiousness aside, let me express to all in this house, with some particularity, and generally, the sentiments I entertain. For you personally, Mr. Speaker, it is difficult for me to adequately express my admiration. Comparisons are invidious, and I shall make none, but I will say that it would be impossible to find a presiding officer of any deliberative or legislative assembly who could rise above yourself in all those qualities which we attribute to the ideal Speaker. I know that as long as you grace the throne here we will have dignity in the house, debate will be decorous, and good humour will prevail.
I have always believed that in times of special need the right man is found for a country, and I can confidently appeal to history to support me in this belief. Churchill and Roosevelt are two names that come to mind at once to bear witness. Canadian experience will also supply us with several examples, but no example is better than the one before us today in the person of the Prime Minister of Canada (Mr. St. Laurent). We are in times that require the highest qualities of heart and mind, times that need profound understanding of all kinds and sections of the population. This and much more we have in our first minister, and J have been and am happy and proud to call him my chief.
But at once I think of the opposition, and I have a word for them. I should like in humility-a quality in which I admit I do not excel-and in all sincerity-a quality which I can claim-to thank all sections of


the opposition, and all members of the oppositions, for their treatment of me in the many years I have faced them across the floor of this house. I know I am truculent, though good humoured enough when I am not fighting, and that I am provocative. I feel I am provocative to a degree that may often have been objectionable. No fight, however, has left continued anger, or appearance of anger. I have never been unfairly treated by opponents, and I wish to express appreciation to members of all oppositions for the way they have treated me at all times throughout the years.
I depart from this chamber with deep regret. I have always enjoyed what I was doing. Words of John Ruskin which I read long ago come to my mind:
If a man is rightly employed his amusement comes out of his labour.
I always felt rightly employed and my employment was my recreation.
I have not read any newspaper articles or stories about my retirement, but I have been told that some writers have suggested that I am dropping out of parliamentary life because of frustration, or disappointment, or something of that sort. Any such explanation is wide of the mark. In fact, such an explanation is so wide of the mark that it is not even near the target. I would have been quite content to keep on working here, either at today's level or at the level of former days. I should have continued had it not been for what I shall now state.
The simple truth about my retirement is that I have a wife and three sons to whom I have been only a part-time husband and part-time father for 21 years. In addition to the 16 years in this chamber, I was 3 years in the legislature of Manitoba and 2 years an alderman on the Winnipeg city council. I feel that the condition I have just described should be remedied. My sons are very decent towards me-so is my wife-and have been good enough to say that they would like to have me around more than has been my custom. In fact the youngest one told me not so long ago that he regretted sometimes that I was not handy always, as he put it, because on several occasions he had problems or questions which he had wanted to talk over with me. I want the enjoyment I can get from being in my own home. "Reunion in Winnipeg" is the name of the play on which the curtain rises today. What I have said is the alpha and omega of my decision. It is just as simple as that.
I have been associated with several ministers in departmental work. I could very well be called the peregrinating parliamentary assistant. I fear I did not give them full

assistance at times. I record my gratitude to them for their consideration and forbearance. This particularly applies in the case of the minister with whose name my own is coupled at the present time. He has not had much from me in the way of assistance. I, on the other hand, have had great help from him. The Minister of Resources and Development (Mr. Winters) is one of the truly outstanding persons in Canada's cabinet galaxy. I predict great things for him and that he will go far in continued advancement in this business of government.
I am glad that the Minister of Justice (Mr. Garson) is absent from the chamber today. It leaves me freer to speak of him. He was good enough to say some kind things about me at a certain meeting in Winnipeg, and I had no opportunity of speaking in reply. Among other things, he said I had always given him loyal support, and he extolled me for it. He said I had always given him good advice. I do not know about the advice, but the other statement was factual, I admit. And why would I not be loyal? He earned loyalty. People nearly always invite the treatment they get. The Minister of Justice (Mr. Garson) has always acted towards his colleagues, and to me in particular, in a way to deserve loyal friendship. Any loyalty from me to him was no more than his due, and I would have been an ingrate if I had acted differently.
I repeat that I leave this house with much regret. As I have said, I have always enjoyed what I was doing. I enjoyed the association with all of you. There is a camaraderie here that would put anyone in thrall. I cannot express my desires for you, to you, in the way I should wish. There is, however, a famous character in fiction whose words come to mind and help me. I adopt them, slightly paraphrased, and apply them to all of you. The famous character is Tiny Tim, and with him I say: God bless you every one.


Mr. A. Earl Catherwood (Haldimand):: Mr. Speaker, as the first member to speak following the hon. member for Winnipeg South Centre (Mr. Maybank), I should like to congratulate him upon the very excellent address he has just made. Parliament is a great institution, and although we disagree often on political matters nevertheless we are Canadians first. It is only with mutual respect that parliament can function and discharge its responsibilities. It has been my privilege to have known the hon. member for Winnipeg South Centre for some two years since I became a member of the house in 1949. I can say that I respect him very highly, and along with many other members of the house I hold him in high esteem. I
The Budget-Mr. Catherwood think that must also apply to the people of his constituency who have elected him as a member of this house continuously since 1935. In assuming the new duties he is undertaking, I know that every member of the house joins with me in wishing him the very best in his future activities.
There is one thing about the budget that I can say I really and truly like, namely, that it gives us an opportunity of speaking not only on the budget itself but on other matters that we feel are of considerable importance to our constituencies and to parliament. This is also true of the debate on the speech from the throne when we have a similar opportunity to speak on matters that we consider are of public interest. I should like to commend the hon. member for Lanark (Mr. Blair) on the splendid address he made on Monday evening of this week. I think he outlined the position of the dairy industry in Canada perhaps as well as it has ever been explained in this house. These are things that should be brought to the attention of parliament, and I believe the people of Canada and the great dairy industry in particular will appreciate the remarks he made on that occasion.
I should like to add a word to the remarks he made with respect to the production of butter in our country, and the decrease in that production during the last three years. The hon. member told us that our butter production had decreased about 36 million pounds since 1948. This is a very serious matter. I think that every member of the house has had representations made to him from the many dairy organizations throughout Canada requesting a floor of at least 62 cents a pound for butter. I believe that all members of the house will agree that their request was very reasonable, and that it should be acceded to by the government.
I believe that the Minister of Agriculture will give consideration to this matter because, in speaking to a meeting of the crop improvement association in Toronto about two and a half months ago, he assured those in attendance that conditions as to a floor price for butter had helped materially to adjust the uneven supply to the even demand, and these same conditions would apply to the floor price in 1951. I hope the minister was sincere when he made that statement. I believe he was because I was present at the meeting. In fact I had the privilege of moving a vote of thanks to him following his address. I know he will consider this matter, and I hope he will advise the cabinet of the necessity of setting a floor price that
2152	HOUSE OF
The Budget-Mr. Catherwood will not only encourage but stimulate production to the point that it will halt the present decline in milk production all across Canada.
There are three points that I think should definitely be considered in setting a floor price. First the price should be sufficiently attractive to encourage and extend production. Second, there is the problem of short hours and high wages that have attracted labour away from the farms to urban industries. Third, there is the present disparity in prices and costs in the dairy industry compared with other agricultural sources of income. I should like to discuss very briefly one phase of agriculture that concerns not only those who are actually engaged in agricultural production and represent agricultural ridings but concerns, I feel, all members of the house. I refer to the gradual disappearance of our export trade, particularly as it applies to Great Britain and the other commonwealth nations.
The question we have to ask ourselves is whether Canada has come to the parting of the ways with respect to the imperial preference that we have enjoyed for many years for our surplus farm products. Every hon. member knows that Canada has made important trade concessions with the country that lies to the south of us, the United States of America. That in itself is excellent. It would be difficult to analyse our position with respect to trade if we had not had that alternative market in the United States. However, we cannot help but be conscious of the fact that there is a very definite split with respect to the dealings between the dollar and the sterling areas, particularly Great Britain, the United States and Canada. This trend can have serious and grave repercussions in that it cannot fail to have its effect on Canada's exports of agricultural produce.
As was pointed out in an article by Mr. Kenneth Wilson in the Financial Post of April 7, the threatened Torquay breakdown may magnify the situation, as the reciprocal Trade Agreements Act will expire this summer. Although President Truman is endeavouring to seek an extension for three years, all indications point to the fact that the agreement will not be renewed. Canada's position is simply that we are practically barred by the restrictions that operate against the hard currency nations. As has been brought to the attention of this house on many occasions, the market for agricultural products in Great Britain, which has been the stabilizing factor and a fortifying 

influence in maintaining the economy of Canada for generations, is practically a thing of the past.
As I mentioned previously, we have been most fortunate in being able to market our surplus production in the United States. That is very acceptable for the present; but owing to the similarity of our production

and I think all hon. members will agree that agricultural production in the two countries is very similar-dependence upon this market in the long-range view is not at all wise. Since normally we are a large exporting nation I believe the government should immediately open negotiations with a view to retaining at least a portion of the British market which has meant so much to us in the past. I was greatly disturbed and even astounded to learn last week, through questions placed on the order paper, that in January and February of this year Canada imported 3 million pounds of pork products from the United States, while at the same time our shipments to Britain have been reduced almost to the vanishing point.
The farmers of Canada have proven beyond any question of doubt that they can deliver the goods if they have an assured market. We had ample evidence of that not long ago, when in one year we exported to Britain between six and seven hundred million pounds of bacon. Recently in a speech delivered to a conference in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner) made the statement that America is the only area producing surpluses of food, and the part of that area producing the surplus food which can be transported is mainly Canada and the United States. Then he added the very significant remark that it remains for governments to assure the distribution of food to other food-buying countries, with all obstructions removed; and I should like to emphasize those last words. That is the duty of governments. Then in a speech just last month the Minister of Finance (Mr. Abbott) suggested that Britain might well consider easing the restrictions on dollar imports from Canada, and with that I think we can all agree. When these restrictions were applied it was understood and expected that it was a temporary measure, as was the action of the government of Canada in restricting imports from the United States three years ago. The situation as between Canada and the United States improved very rapidly, and within a very short time those restrictions were removed. The situation as between Canada and the United Kingdom also has improved substantially. In 1946 Britain's exports to

Canada were down to $150 million. In 1949 Britain's exports to Canada amounted to $300 million, and by 1950 were well over $400 million. On the other hand our exports to Great Britain amounted to $704 million in 1949, and by 1950 were down to $469 million. These figures are taken from the trade of Canada statistics. This means a reduction of over 30 per cent in one year in the value of our export trade with Britain. Our total export trade with Britain now is only approximately one-fifth the pre-war total.
With the trade picture what it is, with the views expressed by the two ministers, which I quoted, I think we might be entitled to hope for some indication that the government will now be favourably disposed toward giving consideration to the motion presented to parliament on February 28 last year by the hon. member for Lake Centre (Mr. Diefenbaker), in which he asked that a commonwealth conference be called to discuss trade relations. This proposal was supported by all members of the Progressive Conservative party and by our friends of the C.C.F. and Social Credit groups, but was turned down by a majority vote of the government. I believe it would have served a very useful purpose, and I should think it would be even more necessary today. Ever since confederation Britain and the sterling area countries have been a vital outlet for Canadian agricultural products.
There are many other items we should be selling to Britain in addition to agricultural commodities, including mineral and manufactured goods, which we cannot hope to sell permanently in the United States in sufficient volume. But, as has been pointed out by other hon. members, we cannot hope to revive this trade unless Britain withdraws the restrictions that were intended to be only temporary. There has been a great deal of talk about freeing the channels of trade with the sterling area. I think it is about time that we translated that talk into action, and Canada should give leadership in this regard. To again quote the Minister of Finance, such translation in these boom times could be accomplished without any serious upset or dislocation, for even if we wanted to we could not possibly flood the British market with goods at this time. Our real desire is to have concrete evidence of the determination of all our trading partners to move as rapidly as possible toward the exploration of every possible means of breaking down the barrier that stands between the dollar and sterling countries. That should be the declared policy in our relations with the commonwealth countries.
I have some figures I should like to put on record in connection with our trade. Our
The Budget-Mr. Catherwood total agricultural exports to the United Kingdom in 1949, excluding animal products, were $340 million, while in 1950 they were $228 million. Our total exports of agricultural products in 1949 to all countries, excluding animal products, were $773 million. Our total agricultural exports to all countries in 1950, excluding animal products, were $636 million. So the decrease in our exports to all countries was $137 million. The total of our exports of animal products to the United Kingdom in 1949 was $72 million, while in 1950 it was $53 million. Our exports of animal products to the United States in 1949 totalled $200 million, while in 1950 they amounted to $253 million. Certainly there is a definite trend toward marketing in the United States, which I am afraid is not a stable market in the long run for our products. The similarity of our production to that of the United States is so pronounced that should a surplus of any of the commodities I have just mentioned develop, or if there should be even slight overproduction there in dairy products, we could easily find ourselves in the position we were in back in 1922, when the Fordney-McCumber tariff suddenly cut off our market in the United States for beef cattle. This has happened before; it can happen again. The American is a shrewd businessman. If he feels that the interests of the United States are jeopardized in any way whatever there will be no hesitation in bringing into operation laws that will correct the situation.
So I urge the government to leave no stone unturned in their efforts to salvage at least a portion of those markets which have been practically lost. I think we must all agree that those markets are vital to the long term security and welfare of Canada. We must remember that when markets are once lost, it is almost necessary to move heaven and earth to regain them. So I hope the government will see fit to put into effect some of the recommendations I have made.


Mr. Robert Fair (Battle River):: Mr. Speaker, as one of those who came to the house back in 1935, at the same time the hon. member for Winnipeg South Centre (Mr. Maybank) came here, on behalf of this group I want to extend all good wishes for his future success and happiness. As has been stated by others, he has been a nice member to get along with here. I am sure the cafeteria will miss his patronage, because every time I went there I saw him with his cup of coffee looking for a place to sit down and enjoy a little conversation. I wish him every happiness in his life after he leaves here.
Returning now to the budget which was introduced by the Minister of Finance

The Budget-Mr. Fair
(Mr. Abbott) on April 10, I may say that I have received a number of letters expressing disappointment at the heavier taxation. When I listen to some of the government members speaking of the Minister of Finance, I think he might be compared with the king who could do no wrong. I think that is a mistake. It is following the blind political path of accepting what is provided without any criticism, and without any thought of the effect it will have upon the constituents who sent the various members to this house. All members have a definite obligation when they come here to examine all the proposals of the government. I feel that the letters expressing disappointment came partly as a result of the terrible licking our wheat growers have taken under the five-year contract just concluded. I am not going to discuss further a question which Mr. Speaker has ruled must not be discussed again at this session. Do not forget there are other sessions coming, and we shall not lose sight of this grievance which has not been rectified. Another 32 cents a bushel will help to rectify it.
On Monday last we heard the financial critic of the Progressive Conservative party, as well as the leaders of the C.C.F. and Social Credit parties, make an analysis of the budget. During their discussions they made some very thought-provoking remarks. I thought the member for Peace River (Mr. Low), who is my leader, made an exceptionally fine analysis of the effects of inflation and the proposed taxation levies. On my own behalf I should say that the minister read his speech very well, but it will take more than a good reading of his address to make people swallow the pill that was delivered that night. It will take a lot of candy coating to make us swallow this pill when we realize the damage that is being done to us, individually and collectively.
The minister stated that the expenditures for the current fiscal year will amount to $3,700 million, and he has proposed taxes to collect $3,900 million. I can clearly recall that when I came to this house fifteen or sixteen years ago the total expenditures of government for all purposes amounted to $450 million or $500 million a year. Last year expenditures were estimated to be $2,400 million, and that is approximately five times what they were when we came here about fifteen years ago. In order to make provision for these expenditures, the minister states that he proposes to place a surcharge of twenty per cent on corporation earnings as of January 1, 1951. It must be remembered that in the baby budget brought down last September the minister also placed additional

levies on corporations, but did not raise the personal income tax at that time. He has done double duty by the personal income tax this year, because he proposes a ten per cent defence surcharge for this year, while for next year, and we do not know how many years to come, a twenty per cent surcharge.
I feel that the purpose of the heavier taxation levied in this budget is to make preparations to prevent communist aggression. In my opinion the proposed levies will do more than anything that has been done here for some time to build up the communist organization in Canada. On different occasions it has been stated in this house that one of the best ways to destroy our capitalist system, and our democratic way of life, is to levy heavier and heavier taxes. I think the minister and his colleagues are co-operating to a great extent in bringing this about.
There is one thing I should like to say on my own account at this time. I have not discussed it with my colleagues, but I do not feel the men who are overseas fighting our battles should have to pay income taxes on their army pay, either at the old rate or at the new rate. Think of all the sacrifices that are being made by these men day after day, night after night, and then when they come back they will not only have to dig in with the rest of us to make a living but they will also have to help pay the cost of the fight over there. Personally, I want to say that I do not believe these men should have to pay one cent of income tax on their service pay, because we are levying enough taxes in other directions. We all know that a large percentage of our population are today, and perhaps for some time in the future will be, in the low income brackets. Before these proposed taxes are levied they have had to bear the effects of uncontrolled inflation.
The other day the hon. member for Peace River placed some rather interesting figures on the record. At the time I did not realize how interesting they were, but upon looking over them later I find that the confiscated purchasing power per capita from inflation in 1946 amounted to $150; in 1947, to $215; in 1948, to $326; in 1949, to $353; in 1950, to $384. The estimate for 1951 runs up to $426 per capita. Up to the present time people have not realized the ill effects of this inflation. I believe those figures should make them do a little thinking on their own behalf. When speaking on the address in reply to the speech from the throne I said that I hoped that under these circumstances the minister would not reduce the exemptions on personal income tax. I am glad to see that the minister did not make any reduction on this occasion, but he certainly has not gone as far as I

wanted him to go and that was to leave the income tax without any increase. He has placed a very heavy burden on the people of this country, particularly those in the low income brackets.
Dealing with 1939 levels, and based on the present 56 cent dollar, exemption of $1,000 for a single person for income tax purposes amounts to $560 per year; for the married person who now has $2,000 exemption, that would amount to $1,120 per year. As we have advocated before, it would be preferable to have exemptions of $1,500 for single persons and $3,000 for married persons instead of the heavier tax, because that would give a single person the benefit of $840 in actual purchasing power as an exemption, and $1,680 for married persons.
I turn now to the little man. Someone said not very long ago that God must have loved the little people because he made so many of them. Perhaps we should also deal with the 25 per cent increase in sales tax. During the first election campaign in which I took part, I can well remember the Liberal candidates raising old Ned, if one can use that expression, with the Conservatives for placing a six per cent sales tax on the statute books. Those who came in here at that time or who were in here before that time will remember that one of the first acts of the Liberal government at that time was to increase the sales tax to 8 per cent. The proposals in the present budget increase it again to 10 per cent. I think it is about time for all the supporters of the government to do a little bit of thinking in the interests of the Canadian people.
We have at the present time, and have had for years past, a number of young people trying to start up. By looking around here in the city of Ottawa or in our respective constituencies we can learn readily of the trouble many of these people were having, even before this budget was brought down. Their wages are not sufficient to give them a decent standard of living; and those who are trying either to pay rent or to build a house under present conditions are up against an almost impossible situation. I therefore feel that the Minister of Finance (Mr. Abbott) did not do a particularly good job.
Looking over the proposals for raising money we find the following, as set out at the top of page 1812 of Hansard:
We propose to make no changes in the present scale of taxes on alcoholic beverages. Last September we increased these taxes by $22 million a year. The rates are now high, and I am aware that whenever we change these taxes we impose a good deal of inconvenience and some confusion upon the provincial authorities.
The Budget-Mr. Fair
May I say, Mr. Speaker, that had the minister neglected to take cognizance of the trouble that would be imposed upon provincial governments and had he placed slightly heavier taxes there, I believe that he would perhaps have been doing the country a good turn. If we look at the newspapers from day to day, we shall find that the consumption of liquor is responsible for many of the car crashes that occur on the highways from time to time, and even deaths. Slightly heavier taxes on that dangerous luxury would have been accepted much better by the people than are some of the other taxes that have been levied.
Then the minister went on to tax tobacco. I am not interested in that commodity either. My neighbour behind me here says: "go easy there." In connection with tobacco I want to point out that a large percentage of fires in Canada every year are caused by cigarette butts carelessly thrown away or perhaps by cigarettes used by people who are half soused and go to bed or sit in a comfortable chair or chesterfield, and the fire starts there- once in a while burning up the smoker himself.
The minister continued, as reported on the same page of Hansard:
Next I come to what we call the special excise tax, that is the tax now imposed at a rate of 15 per cent on such things as motor cars, radios, household electric appliances, cameras, jewelry, cosmetics, and so on. We propose that this tax be increased to a rate of 25 per cent.
The Minister of Finance is again placing barriers in the way of our people who are trying to start up housekeeping and who are trying to make an honest living. Again I say that the Minister of Finance and his colleagues are contributing to the promotion of communism in this country by imposing taxes that make it almost impossible for people to get along and to have even a reasonable standard of living.
Then in the next paragraph the minister said:
The house will also recall that last September we deliberately decided not to place this special tax on refrigerators, stoves and washing machines. I regret that we can no longer afford to leave these entirely free of extra tax, and I am recommending that a tax at 15 per cent be levied on all mechanically operated domestic refrigerators and washing machines and on all domestic cooking stoves except those designed to use coal or wood only.
That is still furthering the old program followed by the minister. I am sure that if the minister would place himself on a low salary such as that received by many of those people about whom I have already spoken, he would then see that something was done to keep down taxes on those necessary items for everyday use.

The Budget-Mr. Fair
A little further on in his speech he talks about the 30 per cent tax which he placed on candy so that he could take candy away from the kiddies. Now he finds that is too big a penalty, so he cut the tax to 15 per cent. Nevertheless we find that manufacturers, in many cases, are taking the benefit of the reduction of the tax on candy; the kiddies will therefore be robbed of that sweetmeat.
As reported at page 1813 of Hansard the minister said:
The other tariff proposals include changes which would widen the application of certain items pertaining to farm equipment. They would provide for the free entry of such things as grain or hay driers, individual sprinkler irrigation systems and several items of dairy equipment when for use on the farm.
On behalf of the farmers and the people of Canada, I want to say that this reduction in tariff, even though on a small list, is greatly appreciated and will perhaps help to even up some of the burdens that have been placed upon our farmers.
I wish to say something about that class of people mentioned by the horl. member for Winnipeg South Centre (Mr. Maybank) this afternoon, namely, the old age pensioners, the potential old age pensioners-those between 65 and 69-and many others who are unemployed or who are perhaps physically incapacitated and unable to work. Again this increased taxation places a heavy burden upon them.
I have in my hand a clipping, under the heading "The Castaway". May I say that the description will probably fit many of these old people to whom I have referred. It reads as follows:
The Castaway
Cast off, forsaken, left to die.
Unloved, forgotten, and alone,
I do not ask the reason why,
Nor find I where I might atone.
A wcmout, wasted human frame,
Useless for labour in the mart:
All fruit of age-Is that a shame?
And yet I'm quaintly set apart.
I do not rant, nor do I rave;
Call down no curses others on:
I'll stem the tide, I'll breast the wave,
I'll run, alone, my marathon.
I'll win the race-the goal is death-
I'll pass beyond the searing pain.
When I breathe out my last faint breath, Home, love, good cheer, I shall attain.
So, homeless, friendless though I be,
I still may travel on my way;
May pat stray puppy dogs and see Friendly response to castaway.
Then life is not a loss complete, Companionship may yet be had,
By country lane, or city street,
A friendly pup may make me glad.
(Mr. Fair.]

I feel that we have a duty toward our old age pensioners, potential old age pensioners and many others who are unfit to work and to take care of themselves. We have not hesitated for a moment to send millions- yes, even billions-of dollars to countries overseas while at the same time neglecting many of our own people right here at home. It will be found that a farmer takes care of his faithful work horses by giving them good feed during the winter and turning them out on green pasture in summer. But we have not given even that consideration to many of our old people who have been instrumental in building up to its present state Canada which, in my opinion, is the best country in the world today and which should provide some better standard of living for those who have helped to build it up.
In addition to higher prices, we find that the quality of the goods that we buy, even at inflated prices, is going down; and so far as I know, no attempt is being made to check the quality of the goods sold. The people selling those goods are free to sell any quality the people will buy, and charge any price people will pay.
Then, as a result of the increasing prices and the new taxes being levied, we find many of the labour organizations are preparing again to ask for high wages. We find that certain sections of the civil service are making plans along the same line, and we cannot blame them, when their dollar is cut down to 56 cents. We understand that the St. Laurent two-dollar note is being printed and will come into greater use. It will be a handy instrument to have, when one requires two dollars to buy one dollar's worth of goods. And so the vicious circle continues, and rolls right along.
I was keenly interested in the speech delivered on Monday by the hon. member for Lanark (Mr. Blair), upon which occasion he placed on record a straightforward and honest case for the dairy farmers in his constituency. Many of the statements he made should be pondered by those in office on the other side of the house. It must be kept in mind that farmers throughout Canada, during the past year and indeed ever since I came to this country, have been treated as poor relations. At last the farmers are becoming aware of the fact that it is not up to them to feed the people of Canada at prices far below the cost of production. I have here some proof that similar ideas are held in the United States. An extract from the Rural Co-Operator of February 27, 1951, under the heading "Farming Said Most Exploited", reads:
Agriculture has been the most exploited industry in the whole modem world, Jerry Voorhis, Chicago,

executive secretary of the Co-operative League of the United States, told the annual banquet of the Co-operative Union of Ontario in Toronto on February 15.
"When prospects are poor the farmer produces as much as usual and takes his chance on price," Mr. Voorhis said. Industry lays off people, cuts production and nobody says that a law of God has been violated because people can't get shoes that manufacturers have stopped producing.
"But when a wheat farmer stops producing that's a different story. Everybody thinks that a law of God has been violated."
Mr. Voorhis suggested that the farmer is the only businessman in all history to buy retail his business supplies. By organizing co-operatives to purchase farm supplies the farmer is able to compete to some extent with other businesses, he added.
This will show clearly that there are people in the United States in exactly the same position as we are, with the exception that the government in that country is doing something to provide parity prices or, to use an expression the Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent) likes better, to give an even break to the farmer, as compared with other people.
I do not think there could be any better way for the government to go about increasing the production of butter than to reduce taxation on farmers. Many people do not realize that the farmer must work overtime, not only in the evenings but in the mornings as well. He must do some work before breakfast. Then he goes out and does a full day's work, following which, in the evening, he must put in more overtime in order that the cows may be milked and the hogs-I believe some people use the word "slopped"-and the poultry cared for. Yet the farmer is never allowed one cent for the overtime he puts in.
In my part of the country there has been a concentration of income tax officials who have been checking, rechecking and crosschecking so that the farmer will not get away with a flve-cent piece when, in fact, those farmers have paid to the government thousands of dollars, to which the government are not entitled. Farmers are not bookkeepers; income tax inspectors are. That makes all the difference in the world, and I think the practice being carried on by those inspectors should be stopped immediately.
When one looks over statistics in connection with payment of income taxes he will find that prairie farmers are being persecuted in this connection. Recently I have received complaints in connection with the expenses incurred by patients who have to go to hospital. People in cities such as Ottawa do not realize that on the prairies we have some small hospitals which do not have the equipment or the medical personnel sufficient to take care of all cases. Provision is made in respect of those hospitals to send patients to hospitals in cities or to points outside the
The Budget-Mr. Fair
smaller districts. We find in many cases patients who have to pay railway fare, and must pay board and room in city hotels while they wait for a chance to get into hospitals, are not allowed to show those expenditures as exemptions for income tax purposes. This is a matter which I suggest should be attended to.
Then, again in connection with income tax, when a bachelor hires a housekeeper so as to free himself to take work outside I say he should be permitted to show the board and wages of the housekeeper as a proper deduction when making his return for the year.
I had intended on this occasion to deal with another matter which has been before the house for some time, namely the British wheat agreement. Mr. Speaker has ruled, however, that this subject cannot be discussed again at the present session. There is however another agreement still alive, and that is the international wheat agreement. Before it is too late I would make a suggestion in line with the brief presented recently by the farmers unions of the three prairie provinces to the Prime Minister and the cabinet, upon which occasion they asked that from year to year a review of the prices under that agreement be made.
At the time it was entered into provision was made for a maximum price of $1.80 a bushel and a minimum of $1.40, for certain quantities of wheat in each of the years ending, I believe, on July 31, 1953. The agreement also makes provision whereby the price per bushel shall drop ten cents per bushel per year, without any thought whatever being given to the increasing costs of the things the farmer has to buy to produce that wheat.
I believe a mistake has been made in that connection. The hon. member for Acadia (Mr. Quelch) suggested to the government, before the agreement was entered into, that a certain number of staple articles should be selected and their prices indicated in comparison with the price of wheat, and that the price of wheat should be permitted to fluctuate so as to keep pace with the prices set out in the selected list. Neither the Minister of Trade and Commerce (Mr. Howe) nor any other minister has taken any notice of the suggestion. Until something like that is done, we will not have equitable prices for our wheat. There is no reason in the world why we should continue to subsidize the consumers of Canada who, speaking generally, are much better off than the farmers who are providing the wheat.

The Budget-Mr. Rousseau
In the four crop years between 1946 and 1949 it has cost the wheat growers of Canada approximately $137 million to subsidize the consumers, by supplying cheap wheat to the millers so that they could mill flour to maxe cheap bread. That program is still continuing. In my opinion that should also be revised and we should not ask the farmer to continue to provide cheap bread for the people of Canada.
Some of the newspapers have referred to these subsidies as a sop. I am not allowed to mention the $65 million which was recently paid, but the fact is that it is only a drop in the bucket because we need approximately $450 million to square up that steal.
I feel that what we have asked for for a number of years will have to be put into effect if agriculture is to get the kind of deal to which it is entitled, and I refer to parity prices. Many people today think that agricultural prices are higher than they should be, but the best information we can get from the bureau of statistics indicates that about 25 per cent of the people of Canada, those living on the land, receive between 10 and 15 per cent of the national income. That is not good enough. If we are going to have the Canada we should have, a united Canada, a Canada where all people enjoy the decent standard of living which this country certainly can provide, it is about time that active consideration and action was taken to provide parity prices for agriculture.


Mr. J. H. Rousseau (Rimouski):: Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that a newly elected member making his maiden speech in the House of Commons has the right and privilege of using his maternal language. Being a Canadian of French descent, I am going to exercise that right and I shall speak in French.
(Translation):
My first words will be words of thanks to the two hon. members who introduced me in the house and accompanied me to your throne. And to you, Mr. Speaker, I extend respectful and cordial thanks for your kindness and generosity on my behalf. Indeed, you kindly consented to come down the four steps of your throne to welcome me, thus welcoming also the 30,000 electors of the county of Rimouski whom I have the pleasure and the honour of representing in this house.

Next summer, when I visit the various parishes of my constituency, I will make a point of drawing your fine gesture to their attention.
I also wish to thank all hon. members of the house, ministers and private members, for the sympathetic manner in which they welcomed me into this chamber, and more particularly on the occasion of my first vote. I have been deeply moved by the genuine spirit of fellowship which exists among all hon. members of this house. A newcomer is perfectly at ease from the outset.
It would be discourteous of me not to thank the Minister of National Defence (Mr. Claxton) for our interesting trip to Montreal, when we visited the Canadair plant. We witnessed the various steps in the manufacture and assembly of jet planes, as well as the incredible feats of the airmen who fly those speedy craft. The officials of the company gave us a rousing welcome.
There was also another interesting trip that took us through the large army equipment depot. After extending courteous greetings, the officers showed us, with maps, how the different departments were administered and then escorted us around the building.
There, we saw how much time and money are saved in the administration of this large depot. A striking instance of economy is found in army footwear, for instance. Formerly, used or slightly broken boots were discarded. Now, they are repaired at a cost of $2 a pair. Two hundred pairs are reconditioned daily. As a new pair costs $10, this means that expenditures will be reduced by $8 a pair and that a saving of $1,600 will be effected on the 200 pairs which are repaired every day.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I believe it is my duty to make profession of my political faith, and after having done so I shall tell you why.
For the past fifty years I have shared in the struggles of the Liberal party, in twenty-nine major fights both in the provincial and federal arenas, both in Quebec and in New-Brunswick. In those twenty-nine fights I have never insulted an opponent because I have always thought that politeness and gentlemanly behaviour were the best means of persuasion.

I am every inch a Liberal, a Liberal in the Laurier tradition. I have had the priceless privilege of being a friend, I might almost say an intimate friend of Sir Wilfrid. His lieutenants of 1904, the hon. Messrs. Lemieux, Bureau, Prefontaine, Beland and Fielding, to mention but a few, considered me as a friend and knew I was an earnest, ardent and devoted Liberal.
The late lamented father of the hon. Minister of Veterans Affairs (Mr. Lapointe), the Hon. Ernest Lapointe, was almost a fellow-townsman of mine, since his native parish, St. Eloi, had been parcelled out of Trois Pistoles, my own birthplace.
Like him I entered the fray in 1900. Like him I put off my wedding for a year because of the 1904 campaign. He had a great liking and consideration for me, knowing that I was a genuine Liberal, that I shared his political principles and would remain faithful to them forever. With him and for him I took part in several campaigns.
I remember that in the course of an intimate conversation I had with Sir Wilfrid Laurier at the Chateau Frontenac, in Quebec, Sir Wilfrid said to me: "Herve, when I am gone, keep your eye on Mackenzie King." That is what I did throughout the 27 years this great man was at the helm of the Liberal party.
Have I been, am I now a true supporter of the present Liberal administration headed by the right hon. the Prime Minister? Mr. Speaker, allow me to answer in the affirmative and to prove my statement.
During the general election of 1949 I had occasion to assure the right hon. Prime Minister that I was a wholehearted supporter of his. In so doing I was in worthy company since the whole country asked the right hon. gentleman to continue what he had so well begun. At this point, Mr. Speaker, allow me to recall a fact that is very little known to the public but which I claim as correct in all particulars.
While he was a law student, the right hon. the Prime Minister was doing his clerkship in the office of the Hon. Louis-Philippe Pelletier, who had1 been a minister in the provincial legislature and later assumed the office of minister in the cabinet of Sir Robert Borden. Let me add right away that Mr. Pelletier was and had always been a true blue Conservative. Mr. Pelletier was then a professor at Laval university, and the facts I am now reporting date back more
The Budget-Mr. Rousseau than thirty years. Mr. Pelletier was one of my fellow citizens, as he was born, like myself, in Trois Pistoles.
One afternoon, during the holidays, Mr. Pelletier and' I were talking casually on his veranda when he told me: "Herve, at one time Mr. Louis St. Laurent was a clerk in my law office. I can tell you that of all the students who have gone and will go through Laval university, none so far has ever shown and probably will never show such legal comprehension as he. I consider him a genius in the field of law and I think he will go far." Such an appraisal becomes even more eloquent and valuable since it came from a man who, apart from being level-headed, harboured political ideas different from his clerk's.
That prophetic utterance was true. It was confirmed when this man, whom we admire so much and who has been so gifted in the choice of his colleagues in the various fields of political activity in the country, was unanimously chosen by all the provinces as their leader.
Why did I make that profession of faith? Well, because I have been a Liberal for fifty years, because I have always supported the Liberal party and advocated Liberal principles, my constituents did not much relish the word "independent" coupled with my name by some newspapers. I did not particularly like being called by that unwarranted term. I hope I will not have to uphold my own political party for another fifty years before I can prove that I am a Liberal.
Some local papers even went so far as to say that I was in disgrace in this house. As far as I am concerned I never did take offence at being given a seat in one particular section of the house, because I think that a member's political beliefs retain their strength whether he sits close to or far from the government benches. Mr. Speaker, the Liberal electrical current which has always held me to my party was as strong from my seat over there as if I had sat next to the Prime Minister and his colleagues of the cabinet. An alternating current is as strong at the end of a line as it is when it comes out of the generator.
I am now here through the explicit and formal wish of the electors of Rimouski county; they have asked me, by a substantial majority, to take the place of the late Mr. Gleason Belzile, who had represented the riding so worthily since 1945.

The Budget-Mr. Rousseau
The designs of Providence are inscrutable. Mr. Belzile, who enjoyed the affection of his family and the admiration of his party, was carried off at a time when he was constantly earning new laurels.
The fine gentlemanly qualities, the seriousness and the competence of my distinguished and lamented predecessor had been noticed by his superiors. He had already attained the important office of parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Finance (Mr. Abbott), the nation's tireless and distinguished treasurer.
I remember what the Prime Minister said when he visited our constituency in 1949, accompanied by his charming wife, Mrs. St. Laurent. I quote: "Ladies and gentlemen, I ask you to elect Gleason Belzile; we need him in Ottawa. He has already attained a high position, but we want him to go much higher."
In answer to that call, I, who now have the honour and pleasure of speaking to you, did all in my power, and went all out, if I may use a popular phrase, to ensure Mr. Belzile's victory.
What I did in 1949 was done at the special request of our distinguished Prime Minister and to make up for the inertia evident in others. Judging by the flattering letter he wrote to me after the election, we must have succeeded remarkably well.
May I, Mr. Speaker, be permitted to interject in this profession of faith in the Liberal doctrine my own patriotic profession of faith: five of my sons were on active service during the last war, four of them overseas and one of them in Canada. The one who married Miss Belzile spent three and a half years as a prisoner in Germany. He was an observer in the R.A.F.; eight days before he was brought down over Hamburg, the King had honoured him by chatting with him in French for almost half an hour when my son, the only French-speaking Canadian member of his squadron, told him he came from Canada.
Let me say also that the last honours paid by the province of Quebec to Their Majesties the King and Queen were paid at Trois Pistoles by the person who has the privilege of addressing you at this moment. The mounted police had asked me to prepare vocal and band music to salute Their Majesties when the royal train made a stop at Trois Pistoles during the night, to replenish its water supply. At the time, I

had seventy-five youngsters, accompanied by the band I have been conducting for 50 years, sing God Save the King, O Canada, and Alouette for the Queen.
Personally, during both world wars, I prevented an act of sabotage which might have had most harmful effects on Canada's war effort. Let me explain.
At Trois Pistoles, there is a high bridge on the C.N.R. line. When, during the first world war, German submarine activity was preventing the sending of American soldiers to Europe through New York, American troops took the C.N.R. to Halifax. One day, to the west of the village, there settled a man who claimed to be a veterinary surgeon. I was rather dubious about the real reason for his stay. I thought that this stranger had some other idea in his mind than just looking after sick animals. I took him for a spy entrusted with the job of blowing up the railway bridge.
I then came to Ottawa, at my own expense, in order to acquaint the authorities with my misgivings. Sir Eugene Fiset, a personal friend of mine, was at the time deputy minister of militia. The session was on and parliament sat in the national museum, the parliament buildings having burnt down. Sir Eugene then introduced me to the Hon. Sam Hughes, to whom I communicated my misgivings, and a few weeks later the stranger disappeared.
One Sunday afternoon, during the last war, I dislodged from under the same bridge a stranger who had settled there with his easel and paint brushes to paint the bridge. I immediately notified the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and, a few hours later, the intruder had been shooed away and the bridge was left standing.
Before giving you, Mr. Speaker, as true a description as possible of my county to make it better known, I have a very pleasant duty to perform, in the name of my electors as well as in my own name, towards the hon. member for Gaspe (Mr. Langlois).
During the long and painful illness of the late Mr. Belzile, the hon. member agreed to look after the interests of Rimouski county as well as those of his own constituency. It was a heavy task and he did a wonderful job. I might even add that it has affected his health. For that hard and tiring work, I offer him once more my thanks and those of my electors.
As I do not wish to impose upon his kindness, and knowing besides that his new duties as parliamentary assistant to the Postmaster General mean more work for him, I am willing to look after all the work pertaining

to my county. However, I shall still be asking for his help and his advice, and I know that he will give me both.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I am proud to tell you about my county, 312 square miles in area, with a population of over 61,000, including nearly 30,000 electors.
Between Trois Pistoles, its western boundary, and Mont Joli, its eastern boundary, the distance is 60 miles facing the beautiful St. Lawrence river, the average width of which, at this point, is 35 miles.
As the waters of the river begin to get salty at L'Islet, 150 miles farther west, it is really salty at that point of the St. Lawrence river. My county extends 52 miles to the south.
This area of 312 square miles comprises 34 well-organized parishes, 34 churches, 25 convents, 1 classical college, 1 seminary and 1 bishopric.
This reminds me that last fall, the Rimouski diocese mourned the loss of its archbishop, the Most Rev. Courchesne. He passed away in November. In March, Rome appointed her new representative, Most Rev. Parent whose school examinations I had the honour to supervise when he was six years old.
A few hours after he had been appointed, I went to Rimouski to offer him my respects on my own behalf and on behalf of my electors. He then recalled having met the Speaker of the House of Commons in Rome during the summer. He urged me to offer him his regards, which I am most glad to do.
Now, if I may continue: 1 school of agriculture, 1 technical school, 1 school of commerce, 1 navy school, 4 commercial schools. There are 210 male teachers, 7 female teachers, 141 schools and 6,271 children attending those elementary schools. We have a hospital, a sanatorium, two newspapers, three homes for the aged. There are 3,500 farmers, 697 settlers, 2,459 day-labourers. There are also 342 farm tractors, 11 butter factories, 9 cheese factories, 80 industries, 10 tinsmiths, 22 shoemakers, 23 blacksmiths, 205 merchants, 36 hotels, 114 professional men-doctors, notaries, lawyers, surveyors, agronomists-and 73 restaurants.
Although I have represented Rimouski for the past six months only, I have tried to be well informed in order to give immediate answers to the legitimate and reasonable
The Budget-Mr. Rousseau requests of my constituents. Mr. Speaker, if I may judge from the hundreds of letters I have received since I was elected, I am considered by all the electors as their representative with the government. My electors and myself are convinced that the present Liberal government will be pleased to consider the requests submitted by the representative elected by the majority.
On the St. Lawrence, there are three cities, Trois Pistoles to the west, Mont Joli to the east, and Rimouski practically in the centre. Mont Joli takes its name from its beautiful, lofty site; a little to the west, on a great height there is the St. Georges sanatorium, an impressive building accommodating nearly 600 patients who receive remarkable care and attention from the religious authorities, the director, nurses, doctors, attendants and the whole staff. I had the opportunity to visit this fine institution and I was truly amazed by the splendid work accomplished there for the recovery of our dear patients.
I know the Department of National Health and Welfare has paid hundreds of thousands of dollars toward this hospital. I understand there will be other requirements and I know my requests will be well received by the minister of health when I submit them.
The railway terminal and divisional point of the C.N.R. are located at Mont Joli. A good many of its citizens are railroad employees, still on the payroll or retired.
I know that a large number of the retired employees will ask the government, if they have not already done so, for an increase in pension. Their request is justified and I shall consider it a duty and a pleasure to support their claims.
Yesterday afternoon, in the railways committee, I had the pleasure of learning from Mr. Donald Gordon, chairman of the board of the C.N.R., that a committee of representatives of the C.N.R., of the Canadian and international union of railroad employees, had been set up. It is already at work revising the pension of all classes of C.N.R. and former Intercolonial Railway pensioners, with a view to granting all of them a pension in keeping with present standards of living. Mr. Gordon is honest, fair and a real businessman. We are confident he will treat everyone fairly.
During the last war, the Department of National Defence built an airport which I know the people of Mont Joli wish to preserve



The Budget-Mr. Rousseau and expand in order to take care of the increasing volume of business that comes from the north shore.
My lamented predecessor, Mr. Belzile, had succeeded in preventing several buildings from being torn down, even though some people hoped to do away with them. He had even obtained funds for improvements. I am determined that this work will continue, perhaps on an even larger scale, and I am confident that the Minister of National Defence will agree to my request.
A handsome modern building, much of it occupied by the Post Office Department, was inaugurated last September in the centre of Mont Joli.
There is still space available in that building for the staff of an unemployment insurance officer. They could do an excellent job in helping those who have the chance of benefiting from the provisions of this act. There have been urgent requests for the opening of such an office and I hope these requests will be granted in the near future. In the very same building, the people of Mont Joli would like to see and, as a matter of fact, they urgently request the opening of a customs office. Here again, I will take all the necessary steps to have this request given proper consideration.
Mont Joli is also faced with the matter of improving the viaduct in the centre of the town. The municipal authorities have sent me an urgent plea for improvements to this viaduct, now forty years old and no longer meeting the requirements of the people. I will make the necessary representations to the board of transport commissioners in order that they may take the necessary steps to improve this viaduct.
From Mont Joli, Mr. Speaker, you go in a straight line to Ste. Fla vie sur Mer. You will find there a fairly long wharf, which does not seem, however, to ensure adequate protection to the coasting vessels that have to stop there. Should a wharfhead be built in an easterly direction, for a distance of a few hundred feet and thence back landward, you would have there almost a true seaport where these coasters could safely put up, load and discharge cargo even in the heaviest weather.
I have seen that kind of a wharf in New Brunswick. It is of great service to seafaring people. I know that works of that description

would be most useful in that part of my constituency; I intend to request them from the Minister of Public Works. I consider this establishment at Ste. Flavie as being useful to national defence since the coasters transporting war material can easily stop off there.
Leaving Ste. Flavie and going in a westerly direction-always along the river-one comes to Ste. Luce sur Mer, which really rivals "Old Orchard" with its beautiful rockless sandy beach, and its thousands of visitors * during the summer season.
In the fall -and the spring the flood-tide undermines the shore and even the highway.
I understand that the Department of Public Works is going to be asked to build a retaining wall. This matter is also urgent, and I will support that request with all the energy at my command.
Leaving Ste. Luce, again in a westerly direction, and before reaching Rimouski, one comes to Father Point, where the transAtlantic liners pick up or let off the pilots.
I have been told that work has to be done on the wharf at that strategic point. I shall submit the request to the Minister of Public Works, the Minister of National Defence and the Minister of Transport, as these three departments are interested in that work.
After passing through Rimouski, with which I shall deal further on, we come to Sacre Coeur, an interesting summer resort where real comfort can be found at the Rocher Blanc hotel.
Then you reach Bic. The wharf there needs to be repaired and we shall see to it.
At the entrance to the bay there is a small island on which there is a cave where human bones were discovered a few years ago. According to Relations, a daily record kept by the Jesuit missionaries, it was in this cave that the Iroquois exterminated the last of the Hurons. Before taking refuge in this cave where they thought they would be safe, the Hurons came down the great river-Trois Pistoles river-right to its mouth and had spent three weeks on lie aux Basques. Thinking that the Iroquois had lost their trail, the Hurons came right down to Bic, travelling on the ice, but the Iroquois followed them to the mainland, caught them and exterminated them in this cave.
From Bic we come to St. Fabien, a pretty summer resort, then to St. Simon and to Trois Pistoles.
I will not mention all that could be said of the other parishes in my constituency that do not border the coast; that would be

too long. I can assure you, though, that the people in all of them are most interesting from every point of view. That is where farmers and settlers, especially, are located.
Now, Mr. Speaker, before speaking of the county seat itself, I wish to acquaint you with Trois Pistoles. I will tell you the meaning and the origin of the name. The pistole was a French coin. In the early days of the colony, to go from the village of Trois Pistoles you had to cross a river that the Hurons had called the great river. One day a missionary, crossing that river, tried to draw salt water with a silver goblet. He inadvertently let the goblet fall into the water. Whereupon he told the boatman: "When the tide ebbs, you will find the goblet and keep it as fare." That goblet was worth three pistoles. That true story can be found in the history of Trois Pistoles, written by a member of parliament, the Hon. Charles A. Gauvreau, who married the adopted daughter of Sir Wilfrid Laurier and who, for 27 years, ably represented the constituency of Temiscouata in the House of Commons.
For the past 18 years that city has become a sort of smaller Canada. Young men and women from all over Canada come to Trois Pistoles and spend eight weeks there to learn French. When they arrive, from the various English-speaking provinces, they do not speak French at all. Living in families where no English is spoken, they must, of necessity, become familiar with that new language and with the home life of those families. As a result, when they return home after that eight-week course, they speak French fluently. May I say, Mr. Speaker, that these summer courses were inaugurated eighteen years ago by Western university of London, Ontario. At that time, its president was Dr. Sherwood W. Fox, who had dreamed, in his youth, of achieving unity and understanding between the two great races that live in Canada. This patriot always felt that if people were better acquainted, if they could chat together and understand one another, harmonious relations would prevail. With this ideal in mind, he inaugurated the summer school at Trois Pistoles in 1933. These classes, which have continued from year to year, have given wonderful results in the field of good relations.
We have among us here in parliament a former pupil of the school who attended
The Budget-Mr. Rousseau classes in 1935-1936. He did not speak French when he first came to Trois Pistoles, but he learned to express himself fluently in that language which now, fifteen years later, he still speaks very well. I refer to the hon. member for Halifax (Mr. Dickey) who is still an eligible bachelor.
This school is directed by Dr. H. E. Jenkins, one of the professors attached to Western university in London. In recognition of his admirable and patriotic work in the sphere of education, Quebec's Laval university conferred on him an honorary doctorate.
May I add, Mr. Speaker, that the university authorities were kind enough to come to Trois Pistoles in order to confer this honorary degree upon this distinguished gentleman, an unprecedented event in the history of the university. The generosity of a Catholic university towards a gentleman of another faith is a fine example of the friendly relations which exist between these races, without religious or racial distinction.
I cannot help but tell you and I am proud so to proclaim: the generosity of Western university towards Monsignor Vandry, rector of Laval university of Quebec, and towards one of my distinguished fellow citizens of Trois Pistoles, chief inspector Epiphane L'ltalien, was equal to that of Laval, since that institution conferred the handsome degree of Doctor of Laws honoris causa on those two gentlemen.
Just recently Western university did itself proud by writing on its honour roll the name of another distinguished doctor of laws, that of the right hon. the Prime Minister of Canada (Mr. St. Laurent).
In so doing, I know that the authorities of Western university have wished to grant recognition to the great administrative qualities and more particularly to the great legal mind of the Prime Minister of Canada, thus confirming and underlining the judgment passed more than thirty years ago by the Prime Minister's former employer.
Pleasant things were said on that occasion. The Prime Minister was so kind as to speak of Trois Pistoles, my native town. I thank him most sincerely for that.
If the Liberal government were to grant a few thousand dollars as an encouragement to these summer courses, taking care however not to infringe upon the educational rights of the provinces, they could not make a more patriotic gesture. The Carnegie Institute of

The Budget-Mr. Rousseau New York has been granting, these last three years, substantial sums to encourage these summer courses. That generous gesture was not interpreted as an infringement upon the rights of the provinces.
The lumber trade adds to the importance of Trois Pistoles. It is the most important dressed lumber exporting port in the eastern part of the province and even in the eastern part of the country. Each year, more than 125 million feet of lumber are dressed there, part of the lumber being sent in transit from the maritimes either by rail or water.
The service given by the C.N.R. is good, but the wharf needs to be extended and improved in order that the schooners and other coasting vessels coming from the north shore may load and unload. I am grateful to the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Fournier) who favoured us with a visit three years ago in order to see for himself the work which had to be done, 'and I thank him for what he gave us. However I would like to suggest to him that he should not stop there; I know that he will pay attention to my request and grant us that which is part of the war effort of this country.
For the last fifty years there has been a daily steamship service between Trois Pistoles and Les Escoumains. The ship starts to operate when the ice is still in the river, on April 15, and stops when the river is freezing over, on November 15. That steamship service is very valuable to the parishes on each side, both for mail and passenger transport.
In the spring when the trains cannot get through on the north shore because of the swollen rivers, the mail which is delivered by land is often two or three days late. The ship from Trois Pistoles picks up the mail from Quebec, Montreal and Toronto at 4.30 a.m. and delivers it at Les Escoumains, for Baie Comeau. Thanks to the Postmaster General (Mr. Rinfret) and to my hon. colleagues from Gaspe and Saguenay, this service has been renewed this year and I sincerely thank those hon. gentlemen.
Now, last but not least, we come to Rimouski. Mr. Speaker, you are aware of the great disaster which befell this beautiful and prosperous little town last year. Fire, that great destroyer, caused several million dollars worth of damage, and the people of the county seat have not yet recovered from the effects of this catastrophe. I know the government has been generous. I even know that the kind-hearted Prime Minister went to the scene of the fire to see the damage for

himself, and the plight of these good people. I thank him for what has already been done and again I convey to him the thanks of all the poor victims of that disaster. I understand that the need is still great and urgent, but I know that the government will not turn a deaf ear to the requests I may be asked to make.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I come to general politics. I am aware that Canada, like other democratic countries, is faced with a most distressing problem.
I feel that the United Nations' decision to keep a well equipped army on a war footing in Europe under the able leadership of General Eisenhower, the greatest general and strategist of modern times, and of his assistant Field Marshal Montgomery, is bound to reassure us in regard to the actual threat of war, and when the Prime Minister tells us he believes and still hopes that war is avoidable, he does so not only to reassure the people, but because he has good reasons to think so.
We must truly place our confidence in the government. The members of the cabinet have shown, in the past, that they have the interest of the Canadian people at heart. The Canadian people have confidence in the government which they returned to power two years ago. As far as I am concerned, as the representative of 30,000 electors, I have complete trust in the straightforwardness, honesty and competence of those who make up our government. That is why, during my electoral campaign, I stated I was a Liberal, I accepted and endorsed the Liberal party's actions, the party in which I had put all my trust. As such, Mr. Speaker, I was elected and as such I have voted for the government. This was indeed the mandate I received from my electors and I wish to remain true to it.
I am not surprised at the government's reticence as regards steps to be taken for the defence of our country and as a member of the United Nations. At the beginning of the second great war, I was in the office of the late Hon. Ernest Lapointe. As he seemed tired, I asked him what was worrying him. He replied: "If the people knew what news comes to us ministers, every twenty-four hours from England, France, Belgium, they would be desperate". Today, the situation is less critical. We should therefore have confidence in those we have honoured with our trust.

I know, Mr. Speaker, that all hon. members, like myself, have received from their electors letters about the high cost of living, requesting the establishment of price controls. Again, Mr. Speaker, I am confident that the members of the government are aware of the situation and will make the necessary decisions at the proper time.
In closing, I wish to congratulate the hon. member for Gloucester (Mr. Richard) on his interesting speech and especially on the part dealing with his visit to Rome last year.
He suggested that Canada send a representative to the Vatican.
I heartily support the hon. member's motion. I do so not as a Catholic but because the Pope, whose reign is so glorious, is considered by every right-thinking nation as one of the greatest diplomats of modern times.
One of the most famous and renowned of American presidents, the late Franklin D. Roosevelt, who, at the request of his people, served during four consecutive terms-something unique in American history-was not a Catholic. Yet, every month, from the beginning to the end of the war, his confidential representative, Mr. Myron Taylor, a non-Catholic, was sent to call on the Pope and ask his advice.
In these critical times we need the advice of wise and impartial persons. His Holiness Pope Pius XII is one of the wisest men on earth.
It is therefore proper and reasonable that he be consulted. I will therefore support
The Budget-Mr. Rousseau the resolution for the appointment of a Canadian representative to the Vatican.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I am happy to say that I will do as I have done since I came to this house and will support the government on the budget issue.
I congratulate the Minister of Finance (Mr. Abbott) for his ability in securing acceptance of an operation that could have been more painful than it turned out to be. With his usual smile, he reminds me of a dentist who is sure to hurt his patients, but who knows how to divert their attention with fine words.
Nevertheless I will make so bold as to suggest to him that he modify that part of the budget which concerns the increased tax on refrigerators, electric stoves and washing machines, which are absolutely essential domestic appliances. To compensate that increase, he should raise the tax on alcoholic beverages.
This tax would increase our revenues and would help to prevent much criticism. In so doing the minister would please an immense number of housekeepers who would be eternally grateful to him for having taken that step.
(Text):
On motion of Mr. White (Hastings-Peter-borough) the debate was adjourned.



BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

Alphonse Fournier: Tomorrow we will
continue this debate, Mr. Speaker.


[Stage Direction]
At six o'clock the house adjourned, without question put, pursuant to standing order.
[Stage Direction]
Thursday, April 19, 1951