1950-03-01

Right Hon. L. S. St. Laurent (Prime Minister):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to table two copies of the decision made this morning by the Supreme Court of Canada with respect to the wartime leasehold regulations.


Mr. J. G. Diefenbalrer (Lake Centre):: should like to ask a question of the Minister of Justice arising out of the submission to the Supreme Court of Canada with regard to the wartime leasehold regulations. In the judgment did the supreme court state that there was in fact an emergency existing, or did they accept the declaration of parliament, or that contained in the preamble to the regulations, of the existence of an emergency, and base their judgment on that assumption?


Mr. Lesage:: Read it yourself.


Hon. Stuart S. Garson (Minister of Justice):: May I ask my hon. friend whether he is referring to the judgment which has just been tabled?


John George Diefenbaker: Yes.


Stuart Sinclair Garson: I regret very much I have not yet had the opportunity to read it.


John George Diefenbaker: Possibly the minister can give us the answer tomorrow.


Mr. Abbott:: Perhaps the hon. member can read the judgment.



INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS


Mr. J. W. Noseworthy (York South) moved: for leave to introduce Bill No. 10, to amend the Industrial Relations and Disputes Investigation Act (reinstatement and compensation).


Some hon. Members:: Explain.


Joseph William Noseworthy: This bill adds a new
section to the Industrial Relations and Disputes Investigation Act. The object of the new section is indicated therein-to give power to the board to make an order requiring an employer to reinstate any employee discharged contrary to the provisions of the act, and to pay such employee the monetary loss suffered by reason of such discharge.
Motion agreed to and bill read the first time.



DOMINION ELECTIONS ACT


Mr. H. R. Argue (Assiniboia) moved: for leave to introduce Bill No. 11, to amend the Dominion Elections Act, 1938 (age of voters).


Some hon. Members:: Explain.


Hazen Robert Argue: The purpose of this bill is to
take into account the superior education and training now given Canadian youth; also the fact that at eighteen years of age Canadians are considered sufficiently mature to serve in the country's armed forces. It therefore seeks to amend the Dominion Elections Act by reducing the eligible voting age from twenty-one to eighteen.


Mr. Pouliot:: Seven is the age of wisdom.
Motion agreed to and bill read the first time.



QUESTIONS

[Stage Direction]
(Questions answered orally are indicated by an asterisk.)

Mr. While (Middlesex East):: 1.	How much money was voted by parliament in 1949 to make payments to livestock owners under Bill No. 147 to amend the Animal Contagious Diseases Act?
2.	How many farmers eligible for payments under this bill have received payments to date?
3.	How much of the money voted has been expended to date?


Mr. McCubbin:: 1.	None.
2.	None.
3.	No money yet voted.


VETERANS-DISTRIBUTION OF FRANCE AND GERMANY STAR
Mr. Harkness:: 1.	Has the France and Germany Star been issued to veterans who took part in the Dieppe operation?
2.	If not, what are the reason* for the delay?


Mr. Blanchette:: 1.	No.

Questions
2.	The regulations tor the award of all campaign stars and war medals were made after consultation amongst the various members of the commonwealth. The France and Germany star was stablished to recognize specifically the campaign in northwest Europe after the Normandy landing, June 6, 1944; therefore participants in the Dieppe operation, August 19, 1942, did not qualify for the award.
Members of the army and air force and personnel of the navy who were engaged in shore operations were, however, awarded the 1939-45 star for the Dieppe operation only, whereas the normal qualifying time for the 1939-45 star is six months for army and navy personnel and two months for the air force. Special recognition was given to personnel who served at Dieppe as follows:
Victoria Cross, 2; Distinguished Service Order, 19; Military Cross, 29; Distinguisher Conduct Medal 20; Military Medal, 65; Mentioned in dispatches, 150; Total, 285.


PRICES SUPPORT
Mr. While (Middlesex East):: 1.	How many bushels of white beans are now in possession of the agricultural prices support board, 1948 crop?
2.	How many bushels of the 1948 crop has the agricultural prices support board sold?
3.	To what countries?
4.	What price per bushel was received in Canadian dollars for those sold?


Mr. McCubbin:: 1.	None.
2.	None. The agricultural prices support board did not sell any white beans of the 1948 crop, but the board purchased 38,000 bushels and, under an arrangement made by the Department of External Affairs, shipped them for purposes of Palestine refugee relief at a total cost to the board of $194,419.88.
3.	Answered by No. 2.
4.	Answered by No. 2.



UNEMPLOYMENT


Mr. Coldwell:: 1.	On what day of the week does the government receive a new estimate of the number of unplaced applicants registered at the national employment service?
2.	What is the lapse of time between this day and the day on which the information is made available to the public?
3.	Have there been any changes in government policy with respect to the availability to the public of unemployment statstics since January 1, 1949?
4.	If so, what changes have been made?


Mr. Cole (Verdun-La Salle):: 1.	Local national employment service offices count the number of live applications

for employment in their files on Thursday of each week. Processed data on a national and regional basis are available to the government ten to twelve days later.
2.	Data, with figures on unemployment insurance benefits and an analysis of the current situation, are released at the middle and the end of each month, about two weeks after date of local office count.
3.	No, except frequency of press releases.
4.	See answer to No. 3.



NORTHWEST TERRITORIES


Mr. Knighi:: 1.	Is there a government board or commission which administers the affairs in the Northwest Territories?
2.	If so, by what authority was that board created?
3.	Who are its present members?
4.	Is' there a local board or committee which acts in an advisory capacity to the government board?
5.	If so (a) who are its members:	(b) what
organizations do they represent?


Mr. Prudham:: 1.	Yes.
2.	The Northwest Territories Act authorizes the governor in council to appoint a chief executive officer, to be known as the commissioner of the Northwest Territories, who administers the government of the territories under instructions, from time to time, given by the governor in council or the Minister of Resources and Development. Under authority of section 8 of the act, the governor in council appointed a council to aid the commissioner in the administration of the territories.
3.	The present members of the council are the following:
Commissioner: H. L. Keenleyside, deputy minister of resources and development.
Deputy commissioner:	Roy A. Gibson,
director, development services branch, department of Resources and Development.
Other members: Stuart T. Wood, commissioner, R.C.M.P.; D. M. MacKay, director, Indian Affairs branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration; Louis C. Audette, Canadian maritime commission; Harold B. Godwin, Department of National Defence; John G. McNiven, Yellowknife, N. W. T.
4.	No.
5.	Answered by No. 4. However, under the local administrative district ordinance, local trustee boards have been established at Yellowknife and Hay River.
The members of the Yellowknife board are: Chairman: Dr. O. L. Stanton; members: Dr.

J. D. Bateman, E. C. Rudd, John H. Winter, Mervyn A. Hardie, John M. McMeekan, J. Guy Wheeler, Albert Thomas Rivett.
The members of the Hay River board are: Chairman: D. J. Martin; members: Edward R. Osborne, Robert W. Porritt, Mrs. M. Thor-steinson, William Clark.



* UNEMPLOYMENT


Mr. Coldwell:: 1.	Has there been any change in the policy announced by the then minister of reconstruction in April, 1945, in the white paper entitled "Employment and Income"?
2.	If so, what changes have been made, and for what reasons?
3.	If not, what is the extent of the "shelf of soundly planned projects" referred to on page 16 of the white paper?
4.	To what extent have projects from this shelf been used to relieve unemployment?
5.	How many men have been employed in such projects?
6.	How many men could be employed in the projects at present on the shelf?
Questions


Mr. Si. Laurent:: Mr. Speaker, after this
question, was placed on the order paper I made a full statement in the house, and the answers are to be found at pages 56, 57 and 58 of Hansard for February 20.


Mr. Speaker:: Answered.



UNEMPLOYMENT


Mr. Knowles:: What was the total number of unemployed persons in Canada, by provinces, as at (a) July 1, 1948; (b) January 1, 1949; (c) July 1, 1949; (d) October 1, 1949; (e) November 1, 1949; (f) December 1, 1949; (g) January 1, 1950, and (h) February 1, 1950?


Mr. Cote (Verdun-La Salle):: The number of persons registered as looking for work at local national employment service offices, by provinces, at the dates specified are given below:
July 1,	Dec. 30,	June 30,	Sept. 29,	Nov. 3,	Dec. 1,	Dec. 29,	Feb. 2,Province	1948	1948	1949	1949	1949	1949	1949	1950Newfoundland	5,400	6,800	7,200	7,700	9,000	14,700Prince Edward Island 	... 800	1,700	1,100	900	700	1,200	1,900	2,600Nova Scotia 	.. 9,200	10,900	9,100	8,700	9,600	11,600	14,900	20,200New Brunswick 	.. 5,300	8,000	8,100	8,600	8,500	11,600	14,000	17,200Quebec 	.. 29,000	55,900	42,400	43,900	51,900	67,300	88,200	109,300Ontario 	,.. 36,700	48,500	41,200	38,200	48,200	61,000	70,200	94,700Manitoba 	... 7,300	10,100	8,200	6,100	8,600	11,200	13,100	18,200Saskatchewan 	. . 3,900	7,200	4,000	3,200	4,600	6,700	9,200	12,800Alberta 	.. . 4,500	6,900	5,200	4,700	6,400	8,100	10,200	16,400British Columbia 	.. . 21,900	37,600	22,500	21,900	26,600	34,400	43,300	69,500Canada 	. .. 118,600	186,800	147,200	143,000	172,300	220,800	274,000	375,600



PATENTS

Mr. Knowles:: 1.	How many applications for patents were filed (a) by corporations; (b) by individuals, during 1949?
2.	How many applications for patents were filed (a) by corporations; (b) by individuals, during the ten-year period ending December 31, 1949?
3.	How many patents were granted (a) to corporations; (b) to individuals, during 1949?
4.	How many patents were granted (a) to corporations; (b) to individuals during the ten-year period ending December 31, 1949?
5.	How many active patents are owned (a) by corporations; (b) by individuals?


Mr. Bradley:: 1.	(a) 2,403; Cb) 10,569.
2.	(a) 12,440; (b) 113,543.
3.	(a) 5,989; (b) 2,371.
4.	(a) 54,706; (b) 21,090.
5.	(a) 97,049; (b) 45,767.



COMMISSIONS ON SALES TO OVERSEAS MARKETS

Mr. Whiteside:: 1.	Does the wheat board sell wheat to Britain or any European country through the grain exchange?
2.	Which companies have been used to put these deals through?
3.	What have these companies received in commissions for their services?


Mr. Mcllrailh:: 1.	No. In selling wheat the board uses the services of shippers and exporters who in turn may be members of or represented by members of the Winnipeg grain exchange.
2.	As stated in the answer to No. 1, there are no wheat deals through the grain exchange. Agents of the board for shipment of wheat via eastern and western outlets are as follows:
Eastern
The Agro Company of Canada Limited
Bunge Corporation Limited
The Canadian Consolidated Grain Company Limited
Cargill Grain Company Limited
Continental Grain Company (Canada) Limited
Federal Grain Limited
Folliott Grain Limited



CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS


Mr. Low:: 1.	Is the Canadian National Railways the owner or considerable shareholder in coal mines in the United States?
2.	If so, what is the location of the mines?
3.	To what financial extent is the Canadian National Railways involved in this ownership of mines or shares in mines in the United States?


Mr. Chevrier:: The Canadian National Railways advise as follows:
1.	Yes-Rail and River Coal Company.
2.	The mine is situated in Belmont county, near Bellaire, Ohio, U.S.A.
3.	Capital stock Rail and River Coal Company: 20,000 shares at $100 per share, $2,000,000. Cost to the company, $1,323,000. Advances by the Canadian National Railways to the Rail and River Coal Company for capital expenditures at December 31, 1949, $3,152,187.



INCOME TAX


Mr. Ross (Souris):: Are farmers allowed income tax exemption on new buildings, equipment or plant expansion on the same basis as is allowed to industries for 1949 or 1950?


Mr. McCann:: No. The capital cost allowances in respect of taxpayers other than farmers and fishermen were set out in the

Questions
regulations published in statutory orders and regulations (part II of the Canada Gazette) of 8th February, 1950.
The capital cost allowances in respect of farmers and fishermen were set out in the regulations published in statutory orders and regulations (part II of the Canada Gazette) of 22nd February, 1950.



ROYAL MILITARY COLLEGE

Mr. White (Middlesex East):: 1.	What was the total expenditure in connection with the Royal Military College in each of the years 1948 and 1949?
2.	What was the cost of (a) pay and allowances for military staff and personnel; (b) civilian staff and salaries; (c) supplies of all and every nature and kind, giving particulars; (d) services, including utilities; (e) maintenance; . (f) any other expenditures not hereinbefore specified?
3.	How many civilian employees were employed at the above college in each of the said years?
4.	How many military personnel were on the staff and establishment of this college in each of the said years?


Mr. Blanchette:: 1.	September, 1948 (date of reopening) to March, 1949, inclusive, $543,903.55; April, 1949, to January, 1950, inclusive, $863,095.41.
2.
(a)	Pay and allowances	
(b)	Civil salaries and wages	
(c)	Equipment, stores and supplies, including clothing and
personal equipment, barrack, hospital, camp and miscellaneous equipment and food supplies	
(d)	Operating expenses of properties	
(e)	Maintenance and repair	
(f)	Other expenses	
3.	Civilian employees	
4.	Military personnel	
1948-49 $ 58,728.69 138,229.01'
168,885.11
40,887.06
67,484.26
69,689.42
28
1949-50 $ 85,235.25 179,708.73
171,195.25
17,622.66
123,252.53
286,080.99
26



RAILWAY SUBVENTIONS ON SHIPMENTS TO ONTARIO AND QUEBEC

Mr. Hansell:: 1.	How many tons of coal were shipped to eastern Canada, i.e., Ontario and Quebec, from each of the provinces of Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia, during the last year, for which there are complete records?
2.	What were the rates paid per ton by way of subventions for coal shipped from each of the provinces?
3.	To what transportation companies in each of these provinces was payment made, and what was the total amount to each company?


Mr. Mcllrailh:: 1.	The following respective tonnages on which subvention was paid during the calendar year 1949 were shipped to Ontario and Quebec from the following provinces: Saskatchewan, 94,957 tons; Alberta, 334,409 tons; British Columbia, 16,767 tons.
2.	The following respective average rates per ton were paid during the calendar year 1949 by way of subvention for coal shipped to Ontario and Quebec from each of the following provinces:
Saskatchewan Alberta British Columbia $0.68	2.17	1.70
3.	The following respective subvention payments were made during the calendar
year 1949 to the undernoted transportation companies for coal shipped to Ontario and Quebec from each of the following provinces: Saskat-	British
chewan Alberta Columbia
Canadian National
Railways	$19,440 $362,696	Nil
Canadian Pacific
Railways	 45,493	340,104	$28,430
Northern Alberta
Railways	 Nil 24,493	Nil



PRINCETON, B.C., AIRPORT

Mr. Jones:: 1.	Were public tenders called for construction of six staff dwellings for departmental personnel at Princeton airport, British Columbia?
2.	If so, from whom were tenders submitted?
3.	What was the amount of each tender?


Mr. Chevrier:: 1.	Yes.
2.	A. G. Turner and R. B. Sauder, Vancouver, B.C.; Dominion Construction Company Limited, Vancouver, B.C.; Kenyon and Company Limited, Penticton, B.C.; A. R. Grimwood Limited, Vancouver, B.C.
3.	A. G. Turner and R. B. Sauder, $69,156.95; Dominion Construction Company Limited, $79,469.75; Kenyon and Company Limited, $86,609.00; A. R. Grimwood Limited, $91,145.50.

Questions



REQUESTS FOR PENSIONS FOR INCURABLES

Mr. Knowles:: 1.	Have representations been made to the government, at any tiine since January 1, 1949, calling for a program of pensions and other provisions for incurables?
2.	If so, from whom have such representations been received?
3.	Has consideration been given to such representations?
4.	If so, what is the result of such consideration?


Mr. Martin:: 1.	Yes.
2.	Mr. L. Bertrand, M.P.-Resolution, orders of the day, House of Commons.
Shut-Ins Day Association of Canada, Goderich, Ontario.
Cerebral Palsy Adult Association, Toronto, Ontario.
Canadian Association of Incurables, Calgary, Alberta.
The Good Will Club, Muenster, Saskatchewan.
Council of the Township of Rainham, Selkirk, Ontario.
Canadian Welfare Council, Ottawa, Ontario.
Council for Guidance of Handicapped, Vancouver, British Columbia.
Society for Crippled Civilians, Toronto, Ontario.
Municipal Council of Galt, Galt, Ontario.
Handicapped Civilians Association, Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan.
Board of Trade, Bow Island, Alberta.
The Shut In Friends Association Inc., Toronto, Ontario.
Council of the City of Stratford, Stratford, Ontario.
Ratepayers of the Municipal District of Forty Mile No. 12, Foremost, Alberta.
Belvedere Women's Institute, Sherbrooke, P.Q.
Muenster Co-Op. Association, Muenster, Saskatchewan.
Farmers' Union of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta.
In addition to the above, numerous letters have been received from individuals, particularly during February, 1949, in connection with a "letter to Ottawa week" sponsored by the Canadian Association of Incurables.
3 and 4. The whole subject is under continual study and review. In this connection it is to be noted particularly that a conference on rehabilitation of handicapped persons has been announced and is to be held in the near future to consider all aspects of this problem.



H.M.C.S. &quot;MAGNIFICENT&quot;-FUMIGATION

Mr. Brooks:: 1.	Was the H.M.C.S. Magnificent fumigated by contract during 1949?

2.	If so. who was the contractor?
3.	What was the amount paid?
4.	Were tenders invited for this work?
5.	If so, what are the names of those who tendered, and amount of each?
6.	What is the cubic capacity of area fumigated?
7.	What fumigant was used and how much?


Mr. Blanchette:: 1.	Yes.
2.	W. E. Mackie Ltd., Halifax, N. S.
3.	$1,500.
4.	Time did not permit calling for sealed tenders but verbal tenders were called.
5.	W. E. Mackie Ltd., Halifax, and Scotia Pest Control, Halifax, were invited to tender, but the only tender received was from W. E. Mackie Ltd.
6.	2,700,000 cubic feet (complete fumigation).
7.	Hydrogen cyanide; 361 forty-ounce tins.



UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE-APPLICATIONS, ETC., DECEMBER, 1949, AND JANUARY, 1950

Mr. Maclnnis:: 1.	How many persons were in receipt of unemployment insurance during the months of December, 1949 and January, 1950?
2.	How many persons made application for un-ployment insurance during the months of December, 1949 and January, 1950?
3.	How many persons had exhausted their unemployment insurance benefits in the months of December, 1949 and January, 1950?
4.	How many persons making application for unemployment insurance in the months of December, 1949 and January, 1950, were not eligible for benefits?


Mr. Cote (Verdun-La Salle):: 1.	This information is not compiled by the month, but is available for a given week as follows:
For the week December 10 to 16, 1949, 125,225; for the week January 28 to February 3, 1950, 218,963.
2.	The number of initial and renewal claims for the month of December 1949 was 139,406; for the month of January 1950, 182,053.
3.	The number of persons exhausting their unemployment insurance benefits for the month of November 1949 was 7,029. (December and January figures not yet available).
4.	December, 1949, 22,404; January, 1950, 31,039.



UNITED STATES BASES IN NEWFOUNDLAND

Mr. Higgins:: 1.	Has any new agreement been reached with the United States respecting the United States bases in Newfoundland, arising out of the visit of the United States-Canadian joint defence board to Newfoundland?
2.	If so, what is the agreement?


Mr. Pearson:: 1.	No.
2.	Answered by No. 1.



SHAUGHNESSY HOSPITAL, VANCOUVER

Mr. Maclnnis:: Who were the successful tenderers and at what price for each item in the call for tenders No. 1162, December 28, 1949, by the Shaughnessy hospital in Vancouver?


Mr. Mulch:: Item No. 1: Kavanagh Soap Co.; $6.10 per 50 lb. bag; terms one per cent discount, 15 days.
Item No. 2: Western Soap Co.; $3.50 per 40 lb. bag; terms net, 30 days.
Item No. 3: Western Soap Co.; $5.00 per 50 lb. pail; terms net, 30 days.
Item No. 4: Kavanagh Soap Co.; $4.70 per 50 lb. case; terms one per cent discount, 15 days.



ESQUIMALT, B.C., NAVAL STATION-TENDERS FOR SUPPLY OF SOAP

['Return as at December 31, 1949. The figures relate to the territory under the jurisdiction of the Vancouver district office of the department, and do not relate to the small portion of British Columbia which lies within the Edmonton district.\n1.\t6,390.\n2.\tReceiving monthly payments under assistance fund (W.V.A.): 880. This figure does not include 317 veterans who have been assisted from the assistance fund (W.V.A.) up to December 31, 1949 but who have been helped by (a) a lump sum payment; Ob) a monthly payment which had ceased prior to December 31, 1949.']
Donald MacInnis: Who were the successful tenderers, and at what price for each item, in the call for tenders R.33-23-34 ( 4), 33-23-34 ( 3), December 29, 1949, by the Canadian Commercial Corporation for supplies for the navy at Esquimalt, British Columbia?


Mr. Mcllraiih:: There are no tender numbers R.33-23-34 (3) and R.33-23-34 (4), but there are tender numbers R.33-29-34 (3) and R.33-29-34 (4), for soap required by the navy at Esquimalt, B.C.
The successful tenderers:
R.33-29-34 (3) Kavanagh Soap Co. Ltd., North Vancouver, B.C.; 10,000 pounds of soft soap at $0-1015 per pound.
R.33-29-34 (4) Hygiene Products Ltd., Ottawa, Ont.; 1440 cakes toilet soap at $0.08 each; Kavanagh Soap Co. Ltd., North Vancouver, B.C.; 100 gallons of liquid toilet soup at $0.88 per gallon.



[Stage Direction]
Questions

Mr. Brooks:: 1.	Were any buildings at H.M.C.S. Stadacona fumigated by contract during 1949?
2.	If so, who was the contractor?
3.	What was the amount paid?
4.	Were tenders invited for this work?
5.	If so, what are the names of those who tendered, and amount of each?
6.	What is the cubic capacity of area fumigated?
7.	What fumigant was used, and how much?


Mr. Blanchette:: 1.	No.
2 to 7. Answered by No. 1.


BONAVENTURE, QUE., FISHERMEN'S WHARF
Mr. Courtemanche:: 1.	Were tenders called in 1949 for the construction or extension of the fishermen's wharf at Bona-venture, Bonaventure county?
2.	If so, what are the names of those who tendered, and the amount of each tender?
3.	Who was awarded the contract, and at what price?
4.	Was the contractor paid any extras over and above the contract price?
5.	If so, in what amount?
6.	Who supervised this work, and on what date was he appointed?
7.	What daily rate was paid him, and what total amount did he receive?


Mr. Fournier (Hull):: 1.	Yes, for the extension of the fishermen's wharf.
2. Fortunat Bernard & Arthur Bujold, $15,306.50; Julien Cavanagh, $15,709.50; J. Romeo Allard, $16,490.
3. Fortunat Bernard & Arthur Bujold, $15,306.50.
4.	No.
5.	Answered by No. 4.
6.	(a) Achille Raymond; (b) January 12, 1950.
7.	(a) $8 a day; (b) $136 for period January 12-31, 1950. (Work not yet completed.)


Mr. Hansell:: 1.	Does any trade agreement exist between Canada and Spain?
2.	What was the value of Canadian exports, if any, to Spain during each of the years 1948 and 1949?
3.	What was the value of imports to Canada from Spain, if any, during each of the years 1948 and 1949?


Mr. Mcllraiih:: 1.	Yes. A treaty of commerce and navigation between the United Kingdom and Spain, signed October 31, 1922 (revised April 5, 1927), providing for exchange of mostfavoured-nation treatment in tariff matters, was accepted on behalf of Canada by the Spanish Treaty Act, 1928, Statutes of Canada, 18-19 George V, chapter 49.
2.	Year 1948, $596,118; 1949, $387,037.
3.	Year 1948, $2,586,163; 1949, $2,426,617.


INCOME TAX DEPARTMENT
Mr. Fraser:: 1. During the year 1949 department use the radio for tising, or otherwise?
did the income tax announcements, adver-
2.	If so, what was the total amount spent by the iq4q?ne *aX department for this purpose during
3.	Is the income tax department engaging the radio for this purpose during the year 1950?
4.	If so, what is the estimated cost for the months of January, February and March, 1950?


Mr. McCann:: 1.	The taxation division, Department of National Revenue, conducted a nation-wide radio advertising campaign during 1949, at a cost of $8,609.73, for the purpose of:
(a) urging taxpayers to file their income tax returns early and avoid the penalty for late filing;

Questions
(b) inviting taxpayers to visit their district income tax office in order to obtain assistance in preparing their returns.
The taxation division is conducting a similar radio advertising campaign in 1950, and the estimated cost thereof, as at 31st March, is $12,000.
2.	Answered	by	No.	1.3.	Answered	by	No.	1.4.	Answered	by	No.	1.


* GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS
Mr. Knowles:: 1.	In connection with how many government contracts let during each year since January 1, 1945, by provinces, have the contractors awarded the same engaged any of their employees for work on said contracts after receiving recommendations from members of parliament?
2.	To whom was each such contract awarded, what was the contract for and what was the amount thereof?
3.	During each year since January 1, 1945, by provinces, how many persons have been appointed to positions in the government service, permanent or temporary, after receiving recommendations from members of parliament?
4.	How many were so appointed at Ottawa?
5.	During each year since January 1, 1945, by provinces, how many persons have been appointed postmasters or mail couriers after receiving recommendations from members of parliament?
6.	How many government contracts let during each year since January 1, 1945, by provinces, have been awarded after receiving recommendations from members of parliament?
7.	To whom was each such contract awarded, what was the contract for and what was the amount thereof?
8.	During each year since January 1, 1945, by provinces, how many properties were purchased, and how many premises were rented, by the federal government or any department or branch thereof, after receiving recommendations from members of parliament?


Louis Stephen St-Laurent: I think I should answer this question orally. I do not think any member of the government would pretend that members of parliament on both sides of the house do not make representations from time to time about contracts, about appointments, and even about men who might be employed by those who have obtained contracts. But such representations have no official character, and do not appear in any official records. From the rumours which reach me from time to time I have gathered the impression that some hon. members, at least on this side of the house, are not always satisfied with the attention that is paid to their recommendations-


Some hon. Members:: Hear, hear.


Louis Stephen St-Laurent: -by ministers or deputy ministers or even by the civil service commission. I think all hon. members will realize -that inquiries of the ministry can be answered

only by reference to official documents; and the correct official reply to this question must be that the information requested is not available.


Mr. Speaker:: Answered.


BONAVENTURE WEST, QUE., HARBOUR PROTECTION FACILITIES
Mr. Courtemanche:: 1.	What amount was spent for repairs to the protection facilities at Bonaventure West, county of Bonaventure, from December, 1949, to February 15, 1950?
2.	Who was the supervisor or foreman of such work?
3.	What daily rate was paid to him, and what total amount did he receive?


Mr. Fournier (Hull):: 1.	$3,994.99.
2.	Phocas Bernard.
3.	(a) $8; (b) $304.


KLAUS EMIL JULIUS FUCHS
Mr. Gagnon:: 1.	Was Klaus Emil Julius Fuchs interned in Canada? If so, on what date?
2.	Was he released? If so, on what date, and for what reasons?


Mr. Blanchette:: 1.	Klaus Emil Julius Fuchs was interned in the United Kingdom on 12th May, 1940. He was sent to Canada by the United Kingdom and interned at their request in a Canadian internment camp on 13th July, 1940.
2.	On 17th December, 1940, he was returned to the United Kingdom at the request of the authorities there.


TRADE WITH GERMANY
Mr. Caiherwood:: 1.	Has the Department of Trade and Commerce given consideration to extending our commercial representation in Germany with a view to the possibility of extending our trade with that country? If so, to what extent?
2.	What was the value of our exports to that country in 1949?
3.	What was the value of our imports from Germany in 1949?


Mr. Mcllraiih:: 1.	Yes. An officer of the Department of Trade and Commerce was first appointed to Germany on February 14, 1947, and an assistant was assigned to him in July, 1949. The officer at present in charge of this post is now, in accordance with the standard policy, due to be moved to another post, and he will be replaced by an officer with more seniority.
2.	$23,451,452.
3.	$ 7,134,030.


NATIONAL DEFENCE
Mr. Fraser:: 1.	Has the Department of National Defence investigated death and injuries of children near Camp Borden caused by hand grenade explosion during the first week in January, 1950?
2.	Have live hand grenades been used by defence department at Camp Borden since 1945?
3.	If so, is a check kept on these grenades, as to number issued, and number exploded?
4.	Is ground where grenades are used checked after each exercise in order to see if all grenades are exploded?
5.	If accident bomb which caused death to children in January, 1950, near Camp Borden came from the camp, is the government paying damages, etc.?


Mr. Blanchette:: 1.	Yes.
2.	Yes, on grenade ranges within the confines of the camp.	.
3.	Yes.
4.	Yes. All grenades used are accounted for either as exploded or returned.
5.	The investigation carried out did not reveal any facts which would indicate that the grenade which exploded could have come from Camp Borden. The question of damages therefore does not arise.


WAR VETERANS ALLOWANCES
Mr. Goode:: 1.	How many veterans in British Columbia were recipients of the war veterans allowance on December 31, 1949?
2.	How many of these were receiving the extra $10 per month?


Leslie Alexander Mutch: Return at December 31, 1949. The figures relate to the territory under the jurisdiction of the Vancouver district office of the department, and do not relate to the small portion of British Columbia which lies within the Edmonton district.
1.	6,390.
2.	Married veterans, or widowers or divorced veterans with a child or children, receiving $15 a month: 153.
Single veterans receiving $10 a month: 123.
Figures do not include 921 veterans who have been assisted from the assistance fund (W.V.A.) up to December 31, 1949 but who have been helped by (a) a lump sum payment; (b) a monthly payment which had ceased prior to December 31, 1949; (c) a monthly payment, in payment at December 31, 1949 at a rate dependent on need other than $10 or $15 a month.


INDIANS AND ESKIMOS
Mr. Dewar:: 1.	What facilities and staff are now available for the care of the health of the Indian and Eskimo population?
Questions
2.	What are the most outstanding effects of the improved health facilities and care which are now available to the Indian and Eskimo population?
3.	What aspects of the Indian health program have been of particular value in the campaign against tuberculosis and other preventable diseases?
4.	Has a new Indian hospital recently been opened at Sioux Lookout, Ontario?
5.	If so (a) how many Indians will it serve; (b) what territory will it serve; (c) how many patient beds will it provide; (d) how many persons are on the staff of the hospital?


Mr. Marlin:: 1.	The Indian and Eskimo population is served by 21 Indian health service hospitals, strategically located across Canada, and by a widely dispersed system of 35 outpost nursing stations.
Indian health services staff numbers 1,000 persons, including 60 medical officers, 5 dental surgeons, 65 graduate nurses in the field and 125 nurses in departmental hospitals.
In addition over 900 doctors and dentists serve part time. In areas where the facilities of the directorate of Indian health services are not available, Indian and Eskimo patients are cared for, under arrangements made by the directorate, in hundreds of hospitals and sanatoria across Canada.
2.	The tuberculosis death rate amongst the Indians and Eskimos has been drastically reduced since 1944-by 40 per cent.
Sharp declines are also taking place in other communicable diseases, such as diphtheria, whooping cough, smallpox, typhoid, etc.
3.	(a) Greatly increased hospital facilities- nine times as many Indian patients are now being given hospital care as were nine years ago; (b) large increase in hospital and field staffs; (c) active participation by all Indian health services field officers in immunization campaigns against diphtheria and other preventable diseases; (d) a very active program for case-finding of tuberculosis among the Indians-over 70 per cent of the Indian population were X-rayed in 1949.
4.	Yes.
5.	(a) over 5,000 Indians; (b) over 100,000
square miles, extending east to Nakina, west to the Manitoba border and north to Hudson bay; (c) 65;	(d) 30.


CONSTRUCTION OF DAMS, MANITOBA
Mr. Winkler:: 1.	What was the cost of (a) the dam on the Pembina river at the east end of Rock lake in Manitoba; (b) the dam or dams on the river at Carman' Manitoba, variously known as the Boyne or the Morris river?
2.	How many acre feet are stored in each case?


Mr. McCubbin:: 1.	(a) and (b) combined:	Construction,
$17,216; land, $4,985; total, $22,201.
2.	(a) 75 acre feet; (b) 200 acre feet.

Questions


CANADA LAND AND IRRIGATION COMPANY
Mr. Hansell:: 1.	Has the purchase of the Canada Land and Irrigation Company been completed?
2.	Did the Canada Land and Irrigation Company have a pension plan for its employees?
3.	Is this pension plan still in operation, and has the government considered continuing payment to pensioners?
4.	How many employees are now receiving pension payments?


Mr. McCubbin:: 1.	No; general agreement has been reached with the company, and exact terms are now being drafted with the expectation that Anal execution will take place in the near future.
2.	It is understood that the Canada Land and Irrigation Company has a pension plan for some of its employees, but the government has no detailed information about it.
3.	(a) No information, (b) No.
4.	No information.


WAR VETERANS ALLOWANCES
Mr. Pearkes:: 1.	How many veterans in British Columbia are in receipt of war veterans allowances?
2.	Of these, how many receive additional payments under the special war veterans assistance?


Leslie Alexander Mutch: Return as at December 31, 1949. The figures relate to the territory under the jurisdiction of the Vancouver district office of the department, and do not relate to the small portion of British Columbia which lies within the Edmonton district.
1.	6,390.
2.	Receiving monthly payments under assistance fund (W.V.A.): 880. This figure does not include 317 veterans who have been assisted from the assistance fund (W.V.A.) up to December 31, 1949 but who have been helped by (a) a lump sum payment; Ob) a monthly payment which had ceased prior to December 31, 1949.



MERCHANT NAVY VETERANS


Mr. Pearkes:: 1.	Are correspondence courses available to veterans of Canada's wartime merchant navy?
2.	If so, In what subjects are such courses given?
-	3. What educational standards are required of the
students before acceptance for such courses?


Mr. Muich:: 1. Yes, provided that the former merchant seaman is resident in Canada and received, or was eligible to receive, a bonus under the merchant seamen special bonus order or the merchant seamen war service bonus order, 1944.

2.	Courses are available in each of the seventy-four subjects formerly provided by the Canadian Legion educational services, including elementary courses in reading, writing and spelling; complete courses in junior and senior matriculation; commercial courses in bookkeeping and shorthand; and technical and vocational courses in such subjects as agriculture, gardening, automotive and diesel engines, electricity and sheet metal work.
3.	There are no prescribed educational standards for enrolment in such courses.



IMMIGRATION


Mr. Hansell:: Has any change been made in regulations respecting immigration of German nationals to Canada since the minister's announcement on September 26, 1949?


Mr. Harris (Grey-Bruce):: No.



QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS


PUBLIC WORKS


Mr. Knowles:: 1.	How much money voted for public works in the fiscal years ending in 1946, 1947, 1948 and 1949, by provinces, was not expended?
2.	In each instance noted above, how much was revoted in subsequent years, but still not expended?
3.	How much money voted for public works for the fiscal year ending March 31, 1950, by provinces, has not yet been expended?



DILLON-BULL'S HOUSE, SASK., TELEGRAPH LINE

Mr. Coldwell:: 1.	Has parliament voted any money for the construction of a telegraph and/or telephone line between Dillon and Bull's House in Saskatchewan?
2.	If so, when was the money voted and what was the amount?
3.	Were tenders called for the construction work or any phase of it?
4.	If so, what were the estimates of each of those who placed tenders?
5.	Who secured) the contract and what were the terms?
6.	When was the construction work begun?
7.	When was it completed?
8.	What is the exact length of the line?
9.	What rate per mile was paid?
10.	When was this rate approved by the government?



UNEMPLOYMENT


Mr. Coldwell:: 1.	Has the government received requests from any provinces or municipalities for assistance in meeting unemployment relief costs since January 1, 1950?
2.	If so, from what provinces and1 what municipalities have these requests been received?
3.	What reply or replies has the government given to these requests?



ROYAL COMMISSION ON ARTS, SCIENCES AND LETTERS

Mr. Pouliot:: 1.	Since the establishment of the royal commission on national development in the arts, letters and sciences (Massey commission), what amounts have been paid to each member of the said commission, to each member of its staff and to each expert in its employ for (a) salaries; (b) travelling expenses; (c) living allowances, and (d) compensation, bonus or indemnity?
2.	What was the total cost of the said commission for the above-mentioned period?
I shall be satisfied to have this question answered privately.


Louis Stephen St-Laurent: I had intended to ask that this be made an order for return. Since others may be interested in the information I have the return ready to table, and I can give my hon. friend a copy immediately so that he will have the information.


Jean-François Pouliot: Thank you.


Mr. Speaker:: Order for return, now tabled.



PRICES SUPPORT


Mr. Wright:: 1.	What agricultural products have been supported by the Agricultural Prices Support Act?
2.	What was the price and method used in each case?
3.	What amount of each product came into the possession of the government?
4.	What amount of each product remained in the possession of the government on February 15, 1950, or the latest available date?



IMMIGRATION


Mr. Gagnon:: 1.	How many refugees and immigrants have entered Canada from September 1, 1945 to December 31, 1949?
2.	What was the cost to the government of recruiting, transporting and establishment of such refugees and immigrants to their place of destination?



CUTTING OF TIMBER ON INDIAN RESERVES AND CROWN LANDS

Mr. Wrighi:: 1.	Were tenders called for by the dominion government or any agency thereof for the cutting of timber or other forest products on Indian reserves and/or national park areas in the province of Saskatchewan in the years 1947, 1948 and 1949?
2.	If so, who were the successful tenderers and for what amounts?
3.	What amounts of lumber, pulp or other forest products were cut on Indian reserves, national park areas or other dominion controlled land in the province of Saskatchewan in the years 1947, 1948 and 1949?



UNEMPLOYMENT


Mr. Knowles:: 

UNEMPLOYMENT-PUBLIC WORKS PROJECTS

Mr. Knowles:: 1.	Has the government received from employment committees of the unemployment insurance commission at any time since January 1, 1949, any recommendations concerning public works projects?
2.	If so, what action has been taken thereon?
3.	What federal public works projects have been undertaken in order to relieve unemployment since September 1, 1949?
4.	What number of persons have been employed thereon?
5.	How much money has been spent thereon?
6.	To whom have contracts for such works been awarded?
7.	In what areas have such works been undertaken?



UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE BENEFITS

Mr. Knowles:: 1.	What is the total number of unemployed persons in Canada at the present time?
2.	How many persons are now receiving unemployment insurance benefits?
3.	What is the average amount these persons are receiving?
4.	How many persons exhausted their benefits between October 1, 1949, and February 28, 1950?
5.	How many of these will qualify for supplementary benefits as from March 1, 1950?
6.	For what average number of days will these persons qualify for such supplementary benefits?
7.	How many unemployed persons who applied for benefits between October 1, 1949, and February 28, 1950, found they had not sufficient contributions to qualify?
8.	How many of these will qualify for supplementary benefits as from March 1, 1950?
9.	For what average number of days will these persons qualify for such supplementary benefits?


Donald MacInnis: How many persons in receipt of unemployment insurance benefits in each of the months of November and December, 1949, and January, 1950, exhausted their benefits before finding employment?



MOTIONS FOR PAPERS


Mr. Coldwell:: For a copy of the mailing list for the publication entitled, "Unemployment insurance commission cumulative monthly report on claims for insurance benefit", as it stood on August 1, 1949, and as it stood on February 1, 1949, together with a statement showing the reasons for any changes made between these two dates.
DILLON-BULL^S house, sask., telegraph line


Major James William Coldwell: For a copy of all correspondence, telegrams, documents and other papers passing between Mr. L. M.

Motions for Papers
Marion and the Department of Transport, any minister of the crown, and any official or employee of the government, from January 1, 1947, to date, with respect to the construction of a telegraph and/or telephone line between Dillon and Bull s House in Saskatchewan.



BONAVENTTJRE WEST, QUE., HARBOUR PROTECTION FACILITIES

Mr. Courtemanche:: For a copy of all payrolls and a statement showing the amount and cost of materials used in connection with the repairs to the protection facilities of Bonaventure West, county of Bonaventure, from December, 1949, to February 15, 1950.



UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE


Stanley Howard Knowles: For a copy of all directives and instructions issued to unemployment insurance offices, since January 1, 1949 having to do with the handling of unemploy-men't, including ways and means of dealing with applications for unemployment insurance benefits, advice as to the meaning of the words suitable employment"; any special directives or instructions with reference to displaced persons, and any other related matters.


Mr.   Coie@Verdun-La Salle: Mr. Speaker, will the hon. member allow this motion to stand until the next sitting? Frankly, I should like to study it in order to ascertain to what extent we can meet the request.


Stanley Howard Knowles: In consenting to the request that the matter stand, I suggest that the parliamentary assistant look back at the records of 1945 and 1946, where he will find that a similar request was eventually met.


Mr. Speaker:: Motion stands.




Stanley Howard Knowles: For a copy of all reports made to the unemployment insurance commission and/or to the Minister or Deputy Minister of Labour, dated since September 1, 1949, having to do with the unemployment situation.


Mr.   Coie@Verdun-La Salle: The construction we have to place on this motion clearly
indicates that it has to do with strictly departmental matters. Upon that ground it would be impossible for us to agree to the passing of the motion as it stands. If the hon. member has something else in mind, or if he would be satisfied with the tabling of communications to or from any external source, we would agree to the amending of the motion, and the passing of it as amended.


Stanley Howard Knowles: Will the parliamentary assistant permit the matter to stand until we can discuss it as well as the previous motion, to which it is related?


Mr. Speaker:: Motion stands.



NATIONAL DEFENCE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Louis Stephen St-Laurent: I should like to answer a question asked by the leader of the opposition on Monday, about a speech delivered by General McNaughton to the Canadian Geographical Society. I had told him that I had not had an opportunity of reading the text of this speech. Since then I have been able to do so and to discuss it with my colleague the Minister of National Defence (Mr. Claxton).
I am now prepared to answer the question.
Hon. members will recall that the question read as follows:
. . . whether the speech made by General A. G. L. McNaughton to the annual meeting of the Canadian Geographical Society in Ottawa on Friday, February 24, was authorized by the Department of National Defence or any other department of the Canadian government. Whether authorized or not, does the government now approve the statements contained in that speech?
There was no official authorization, because the occasion did not call for any official authorization. For some time General McNaughton has been a member of the Canadian Geographical Society. He was speaking to the fellows of that society, and stated in express terms that he was giving them his personal opinion, as appears at page 19 of his text:
I would emphasize that what I have to say represents my personal opinions alone.
Nevertheless I read with a great deal of interest, as I am sure the hon. member did, the text of the speech. After doing so, and discussing it with my colleague the Minister of National Defence, I have to say that we are in full agreement with the views General McNaughton expressed on that occasion.
The leader of the opposition directed my attention particularly to one paragraph which reads as follows:
It is on the peaceful aspects of co-operation, current and long term, that I feel that emphasis should be placed in the organization and functions of the commonwealth-much more so, perhaps, than on the commonwealth as an arrangement for the collective security of its members, which by itself under existing circumstances and present dangers it is not well adapted to undertake. In this connection, with the entry of Newfoundland into confederation we have assumed full responsibility for the solution of the significant problems of the defence of our Atlantic seaboard.
That last sentence, of course, is a statement of fact. That part of our Atlantic seaboard has now become a part of Canada, and it is our primary responsibility to defend our own shores. I believe that paragraph has to be considered with the rest of the text. So

that it may be understood, I believe the part of the text of which that is one paragraph should be placed on the record.
General McNaughton had been discussing the operations of the permanent joint board on defence; the simultaneous declaration about defence made in this house and in Washington, by my predecessor, as prime minister, and the President of the United States in February, 1947; and the establishment in April, 1948, of the joint United States-Canada industrial mobilization committee. He described how they functioned, and then went on:
With these provisions for the free and intimate discussion of defence matters which are of mutual concern to Canada and to the United States, and for their orderly conduct, no one in either of our countries, or in any other country, need fear that any of the precautions essential to the security of North America are being neglected.
As I have said, Canada, like the United States, is fully aware that its security does not rest on the protection of the territory of that continent alone. We realize that this requires continued association with other peoples of good will, who, like ourselves, are devoted to the cause of peace.
In the first place there is the commonwealth. In addition to being a nation of the American continent, and now a member of the Atlantic pact, Canada is also a member of the commonwealth, and she holds to that association with all the firm conviction which has marked the course of our history since early times. She holds to that association as a nation in her own right, exercising full sovereign powers, and happy to co-operate in all matters which make for peace and orderly progress in the commonwealth and in the world.
There are some who may see a difficulty in reconciling our position as a nation on the American continent with our membership in the commonwealth; others may be still further disturbed as to our relation to the commonwealth in consequence of our entry into an Atlantic pact, but I do not share these anxieties.
In the first place, I believe that fundamentally the real interests of the member nations of the commonwealth are very close to those of the United States and likewise to those of the democratic countries of Europe now associated in the Atlantic pact. We all stand firmly for peace, for individual freedom and for democracy as the proper form of government. In the second place, I think we are a practical people ready to deal with each question as it arises on its merits and on the basis of the facts. We see no reason for conflict in interest, and every reason for co-operation between the commonwealth and the United States and with western Europe, and you can be quite sure, with our deep concern for the welfare of each of these great associations of peoples with whom we are so intimately linked, we in Canada will devote ourselves on every occasion to promoting unanimity in view.
Then the paragraph to which reference was made follows:
It is on the peaceful aspects of co-operation, current and long term, that I feel that emphasis should be placed in the organization and functions of the commonwealth-much more so, perhaps, than on the commonwealth as an arrangement for the collective security of its members, which by itself under existing circumstances and present dangers it is not well adapted to undertake. In this connection, with the entry of Newfoundland into coninquiries of the Ministry
federation we have assumed full responsibility for the solution of the significant problems of the defence of our Atlantic seaboard.
I believe that is in line with the policy that has been expressed over the years, not only by the members of this government but by representatives of the other commonwealth nations. We do not regard the commonwealth as a defence alliance. As a matter of fact, unfortunately under present conditions and dangers it is not the fitting organization to provide adequate security for each of its members. That was clearly expressed by my predecessor in an address which he delivered to the members of both houses of parliament of the United Kingdom on May 11, 1944, from which I would merely quote these short paragraphs:
Like the nations of which it is composed, the British commonwealth has within itself a spirit which is not exclusive but the opposite of exclusive. Therein lies its strength. That spirit expresses itself in co-operation. Therein lies the secret of its unity. Co-operation is capable of indefinite expansion. Therein lies the hope of the future.	(
It is of the utmost importance to the commonwealth that there should continue to be the greatest possible co-operation among its members. In like manner it is, I believe, of the utmost importance to the future of mankind that, after the war, there should be the greatest possible co-operation among the nations of the world.
Our wartime co-operation is not the product of formal institutional unity; it is the result of agreement upon policies of benefit to all. Moreover, they are policies that make an appeal "to all sorts of men in all sorts of countries," provided only they are men of good will.
If, at the close of hostilities the strength and unity of the commonwealth are to be maintained, those ends will be achieved not by policies which are exclusive, but by policies which can be shared with other nations. I am firmly convinced that the way to maintain our unity is to base that unity upon principles which can be extended to all nations. I am equally sure that the only way to maintain world unity is to base it upon principles that can be universally applied.
The war has surely convinced all nations, from the smallest to the greatest, that there is no national security to be found in the isolation of any nation or group of nations. The future security of peace-loving nations will depend upon the extent and effectiveness of international co-operation.
That has been repeated time and again by members of this government. As I read General McNaughton's speech, it is an able and well-expressed statement of the same views.



FREIGHT RATES


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Major James William Coldwell: wish to direct a question to the Minister of Transport. For the information of members will he table the decision reached by the

Inquiries of the Ministry board of transport commissioners on the application of the railways for an increase in freight rates? May I also couple with that request a suggestion to the government that, rather than dealing with this matter on going into supply, an arrangement be made by which members of the house may have an opportunity of discussing the decision before the rates go into effect? This is a most important matter.


Lionel Chevrier: With reference to the first part of the hon. gentleman's question, may I say that it has not been the practice to table the judgment of the court, because hon. members can get it from the secretary of the board of transport commissioners. If that is the wish of the house, however, it can be done quite easily.
With reference to the second part of the hon. gentleman's request, I should think that to grant it would be interfering with the judgment of the court. In the past the government has taken the position that it should not interfere with the ordinary process of law or with judgments of the courts. If any parties are aggrieved, they have their rights within the purview of the Railway Act.


Major James William Coldwell: May I ask a supplementary question? In view-of the serious results which may follow the increase in the rates now permitted, and in view of the supremacy of this parliament, will the government not allow, by agreement, a discussion in this house before the rates go into effect?


Louis Stephen St-Laurent: I am sure, Mr. Speaker, that the question was not intended to be taken in any critical way. The government does not feel that it allows or disallows discussion in the house. The house is mistress of its own procedure and its own discussions. If I am to take the question to be this: Will the government endeavour to facilitate an opportunity, under the rules of the house, for discussion of the matter-


Major James William Coldwell: That is right.


Louis Stephen St-Laurent: If under the rules it can oe discussed, we shall be glad to look into it. As I have stated on one or two previous occasions, it was our intention to call each department early so that on one day there can be discussion on everything that concerns it. The Department of Transport is one of the next to be entered into committee of supply. But if it cannot be reached early enough to serve the desired purpose, we shall endeavour to see whether some other opportunity cannot be found that would enable the members

to engage in any discussion about railway matters that would be proper under the rules of the house.


Major James William Coldwell: I want to thank the Prime Minister. My wording of the question was perhaps unfortunate, but the manner in which he took it was precisely the manner in which I intended it.



CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Clarence Gillis (Cape Breton South):: I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Transport. Will he take into consideration the advisability of setting up the committee on government-owned railways for the purpose of discussing the present disruption of service on the Canadian National Railways?


Lionel Chevrier: I presume the hon. gentleman refers to the committee on railways and shipping.


Clarence Gillis: Yes.


Lionel Chevrier: In his question he referred to government-owned railways.


Clarence Gillis: "Railways and shipping" is right.


Lionel Chevrier: If the hon. member refers to the committee on railways and shipping, and if his question is whether the government will give consideration, the answer is that of course it will. But I should point this out to him. The purpose of the committee on railways and shipping is to consider the annual budget of the Canadian National Railways, the annual report of the Canadian National Railways, the report of the Canadian National Railways securities trust, the report of Trans-Canada Air Lines, and the like. Until those reports are ready, it is useless to establish the committee. In view of my hon. friend's interest, and, I am sure, the interest of the house, I will ask the officers of the Canadian National Railways to hasten the report so that we may proceed with its establishment as quickly as possible.


Mr. Graydon:: When was that report brought down last year?


Lionel Chevrier: Certainly not before April.
I am speaking now from memory, but I am sure not in the month of March. My recollection is that at no time since 1945 has the committee been established before April. I say that subject to correction, however.


Donald MacInnis: May I ask a supplementary question? I understand that certain items in

the estimates are referred to the committee on nationally-owned railways. Could not the committee be set up and these items referred to it, and then perhaps the matters referred to by the hon. member for Cape Breton South could1 be discussed under that heading?


Lionel Chevrier: Following what I said a moment ago, I think the committee will be set up fairly soon. In the past it has been the practice to deal, in conjunction with the reports, with the items to which the hon. member refers. I am hopeful that it will be possible to establish this committee fairly quickly.



COLLISION OF EXPRESS TRAINS BETWEEN MONTREAL AND HALIFAX

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. W. J. Browne (St. John's West):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask another question of the Minister of Transport. Has he received any report on the collision that took place between two express trains between Montreal and Halifax on Friday night? If so, is he in a position to make a statement to the house as to the cause of the collision?


Lionel Chevrier: I am sorry I am not in a position to make a report. I shall have an inquiry made, and perhaps I may be able to give the hon. member a reply in a day or two.



POTATOES


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. H. H. Hatfield (Victoria-Carleton):: should like to direct a question to the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Trade and Commerce. Is the report in the Montreal Daily Star last evening correct in stating that Mr. Brannan, United States secretary of agriculture, will fly to Ottawa on Friday to have a conference with the Minister of Trade and Commerce (Mr. Howe) in regard to the international supply of wheat to Japan and western Germany, at the same time taking up the matter of the export of potatoes from Canada to the United States?


George James McIlraith: It will be noticed, Mr. Speaker, that the question asks whether the report in the Montreal Daily Star is correct. The report is a lengthy one and involves a great many matters of conjecture. As there is so much in it I would not wish to say that it is correct or is not correct. I could, however, say that Mr. Brannan, United States Secretary of Agriculture, is coming to Ottawa to meet with
The Address-Mr. Gosselin the Minister of Trade and Commerce on Friday of this week. The primary purpose of that meeting is to discuss wheat. There are also other matters to be discussed, but the United States secretary of agriculture is the only one who can say what questions he proposes to raise for discussion.



INQUIRY FOR RETURN


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Stanley Howard Knowles: I should like to direct a question to the Secretary of State. Will he look into the matter of a question under my name which was passed as an order for return on November 9, 1949, having to do with the total amount expended in Canada on health and welfare?


Hon. F. G. Bradley (Secretary of State):: I should be glad to do so.



SPEECH FROM THE THRONE


[Stage Direction]
The house resumed, from Tuesday, February 28, consideration of the motion of Mr. F. H. Larson for an address to His Excellency the Governor General in reply to his speech at the opening of the session, and the amendment thereto of Mr. Drew, and the amendment to the amendment of Mr. Coldwell.
Mr. Henri A. Gosselin (Brome-Missisquoi):: Mr. Speaker, when the house adjourned last night I said that if our farmers were given the necessary encouragement, as in the past, our sons would not be apt to leave the soil. Since I have only a few minutes remaining I feel it is my duty to continue on a very important question, and to express my views on our natural resources. I believe it is the duty of all hon. members to bend their efforts toward the development of our natural resources for the good of our coming generations. Providence has provided Canada with tremendous natural resources for our future generations. Each province has different natural resources, and I believe it would be regrettable if we neglected to develop these resources for the benefit of our people.
It is our duty to spare no expense in order to develop our natural resources so that our younger element will realize that those wh* are in charge of the affairs of this country have provided for their future and have made it possible for them to share in the future prosperity of Canada. I believe that every hon. member in this house will support the government in its efforts to develop our natural resources. In this country we
360	HOUSE OF COMMONS
The Address-Mr. Gosselin have a population of which we should be proud. We should feel confident that they will carry on in the future to the best of their ability. In the past we have shown that we can be united. Unity is the basis upon which the prosperity of the country depends. The example which was given to us by our soldiers during the last war proves that unity and good understanding assure us of that prosperity which we desire and which we appreciate so much.
My time is just about exhausted. I feel that I should call on all hon. members to unite and to carry on in the best way possible to assure our people that whatever is necessary to provide for their future and welfare will be done. I regret that the time allotted to me does not permit me to continue with what I feel would be a remedy for some of our ills. I still believe that the present government is not neglecting in any way to provide that which is necessarv to provide for the future of Canadians.
I wish to say a few words about unemployment. At the present time, Mr. Speaker, unemployment may appear to be disastrous, but as we look around us we realize that the difficulties of the people are not those which they have experienced in the past. Our people face the future with confidence. They are well aware that adjustment is necessary. They are well aware that the government has to proceed with caution. Our government has to proceed in such a way that its acts will be beneficial, and it is providing security measures against the aggressor. Our people are proud of its actions, because they feel that our enormous wealth will be distributed if possible. Let us join together and give our people the assurance that we are working for their welfare, that we are working to provide for every one of our people and that there is a future for them. By so doing I believe we will be establishing a principle whereby we will be guaranteeing the matter of financing. We will be guaranteeing the future prosperity of those in our country who look to us for an assurance of their welfare and of the opportunity to make an honest living. We will also create friendship in the United Kingdom and throughout Europe among those who look to us to perpetuate the principles for which our soldiers fought so valiantly.
I must now conclude my remarks because the time at my disposal is exhausted. I do so however in the expectation that I shall have the opportunity to join in other debates upon those occasions when I may feel that I can express myself for the benefit of those whom J have the honour tc represent.


Mr. G. S. White (Hasiings-Peierborough):: Mr. Speaker, rising to take part in the debate I should like first to extend my congratulations to the mover (Mr. Larson) and the seconder (Mr. Dumas) of the address in reply. May I also extend my congratulations to ar. old army friend who has been promoted to the post of Minister of Citizenship and Immigration (Mr. Harris). In my opinion this is a well-deserved promotion and, for my part, I wish him every success.
I was sorry to hear the Minister of Veterans Affairs (Mr. Gregg) state the other day in answer to a question that it was not his intention to set up a committee on veterans affairs at this session. Most hon. members are aware that the Legion has presented to the government a brief which deals with various matters connected with veterans affairs, a brief which could very well be considered by the committee.
The announcement has been made in the press that the minister will introduce at this session certain amendments to the War Veterans Allowance Act. These amendments could be considered by the committee. Then, there appears on the order paper a resolution standing in the name of the hon. member for Burnaby-Richmond (Mr. Goode) which states:
That in the opinion of this house the government should give early consideration as to the advisability of increasing the basic rates of the war veterans allowance to $50 per month for single veterans and widows, and $85 per month for married veterans and widows with dependent children.
Anyone who looks over the large number of resolutions already appearing on the order paper will agree I am sure that there is no hope of this most important resolution being considered by the house at this session. If the minister would reconsider his decision and set up a committee, the subject matter of this resolution could be given every consideration. At the last committee on veterans affairs this subject was considered and certain conclusions arrived at. It is my honest opinion, and I believe that of many veteran members in the house, that those conclusions were slightly in error, and that the committee should be given an opportunity to make the necessary change.
If however the minister has finally decided that he does not intend to recommend the setting up of the committee, I would suggest to him that he advise hon. members who are interested in veterans affairs-and that would include every hon. member, no matter where he sits-just why he has chosen to refuse to have the committee set up.
At the last session of parliament, just before armistice day, I asked the Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent) if it was to be considered

a legal holiday, and whether or not the house would sit on that day. The Prime Minister replied that armistice day was a legal holiday, but that the house would sit as usual.
The matter of establishing armistice day as a legal holiday has been considered by various sections of the Legion in my district, and the members of the Legion feel that it should be observed in Canada as a national holiday in the same manner as we observe Good Friday, Christmas, Labour day and other holidays. Armistice day has a deep significance to the majority of people in Canada. However, when the government does not choose to observe it as a national holiday one cannot complain very much when the rest of the country fails to do so.
I have received a copy of a resolution passed by the county council of the county of Hastings, in which I reside, asking that armistice day be observed as a national holiday. I trust that before next November arrives the government will have taken some action to see that this day of remembrance is observed as a national holiday.
While we are speaking about holidays I would suggest to the government the advisability of having all holidays, with the exception of Christmas, Good Friday and armistice day, observed on the Monday closest to the day on which the holiday falls. A statutory holiday in the middle of a week is of little benefit to many people. On the other hand a holiday on a week end, preferably on Monday, not only gives a long week end but makes possible the taking of trips by many people who would not be able to do so if the holiday were permitted to remain in the middle of the week. I understand such a change would involve only a slight amendment to the Bills of Exchange Act. I suggest to the government that these matters referring to the holding of holidays on Mondays and the observance of armistice day as a national holiday be seriously considered.
I would bring to the attention of the Minister of Veterans Affairs the rumoured proposal that the office of the Department of Veterans Affairs in Peterborough be closed. This office serves a large number of veterans in that area, and if it is closed it will be necessary for them to do their business and have their consultations with veterans affairs offices either at Toronto or at Kingston. In many cases, the necessity of travelling to either of these centres would involve long, expensive and sometimes most inconvenient trips. Before the office is closed I hope the minister will give serious consideration to the inconvenience which would be caused to the large number of veterans in that area who take advantage of the Peterborough office.
The Address-Mr. G. S. White
Another resolution from the county council of Hastings which I would bring to the atten-iton of the Minister of Finance (Mr. Abbott) is as follows:
Whereas county homes for the aged are compelled to pay sales tax on all goods purchased to which sales tax is applicable;
And whereas hospitals are exempt from payment of such sales tax;
Be it hereby resolved that the Hastings county council petition the Minister of Finance of the federal government to remove this sales tax in respect to county homes for the aged.
I commend this resolution to the minister in the hope that he will give these homes for the aged the same consideration now given to hospitals.
I see the hon. member for Hastings South (Mr. Follwell) in his seat, and I should like to congratulate him upon his maiden speech in the House of Commons. In that speech he referred to the importance of cheese to the economy of the county of Hastings, and stated correctly that not only does that county produce the largest quantity of cheese of any county in the province, but that it produces the best. Black Diamond cheese, produced and cured in Hastings, is world-famous.
The importance of the cheese industry to the county of Hastings is indicated in a press announcement appearing in the Belleville Ontario-Intelligencer of February 21, 1950, which announced that the first producer storage plant to provide cheese curing and storage facilities, and a research laboratory, is being erected in the city of Belleville.
Mr. Heath, secretary of the Ontario cheese producers association, stated that the warehouses when constructed would serve the following purposes:
(1)	When cheese is assembled in large quantities it enables the producers to classify it according to indications of good keeping qualities, freedom from foreign material and other physical characteristics, and sell it according to classifications, which should encourage competitive buying as the trade could be provided with their preferred requirements.
(2)	It also provides the producers with a building in which to store their cheese should the market at any time appear unsettled and unfavourable.
(3)	It provides the producers with the facilities to investigate new methods of marketing.
In addition to a large amount of cheese, Hastings county also produces many other farm products including a large number of pork products. As Hastings county is largely an agricultural district it is only natural that the farmer producers are most keenly and vitally interested in the falling prices affecting their products. Agriculture is the most basic industry in the world. It produces the greater portion of the food required to feed the world, and Canada despite its industrial growth is primarily an agricultural country. It is one of the few countries left in the world in which
362

The Address-Mr. G. S. White
so do not pass through that office. When one considers that Hastings is an agricultural county, the presence of several thousand unemployed there would hardly bear out those glowing advertisements which appeared before the election.
For nearly ten years the government has sold all the farmers' produce. My county is particularly interested in cheese; and that cheese was requisitioned by the government. With the scarcity of food during the war it was not difficult to sell any farm product; but now that our markets have faded away, and when we are faced with the additional difficulty in connection with the convertibility of sterling, it seems that the whole problem of marketing farm products is to be dumped back into the lap of the farmer producer, and this despite the fact that everyone recognizes that the Canadian farmer made a great contribution to our war effort. The farmer producer was told during the war period that he would be assured of future markets, and in many cases he was forced to accept for his product a price which was below the world market price. So I suggest to the minister that some step must be taken to cushion the shock during this readjustment period.
A drop in farm prices will affect a large number of Canadian veterans who have used their gratuities and re-establishment credits to get started on farms. All these veterans have made heavy financial commitments; and if they are to be successfully re-established in our peacetime economy they must receive a fair and just return on their investment and fair prices for the commodities they produce. If we in Canada, Mr. Speaker, wish to keep all Canadians fully employed, and maintain our standard of living, then I submit that the farmer producer must be put on a basis somewhat comparable to labour. He must receive a fair and equitable return, not only on his investment but on his labour as well.
In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I should like to read a resolution which was passed by the federations of agriculture of Northumberland and Hastings counties, at a meeting recently held in Belleville. The resolution reads as follows:
Whereas, the economic future of the farmer is very unstable and at stake, and, whereas the farmer and his family worked long hours during the war without thought of cost plus as received by industry,
And, whereas over one-third of the armed forces were farm boys who fought and died not only for democracy but for the rights of everyone,
And. whereas many thousands were established on farms and have large obligations to meet,
And, whereas the farmers were assured by the government that their rights would be protected in the years after the war as they had not received cost plus during the war,
TMr. White (Hastings-Peterborough).]
And, whereas many people in Great Britain and Europe and Asia are rationed and short of food, while we have surpluses of farm products accumulating,
And. whereas manufactured goods are advancing in price and labour is receiving the largest weekly pay envelope in the history of Canada,
And, whereas under the present price ratio, an hour's average wage of industrial labour will today purchase more farm products than at any other time since 1913,
Be it resolved that this meeting of the federations of the counties of Northumberland and Hastings commend the federal cabinet for the price support already given, but feel that support prices should be further advanced to be on a parity with labour and industry.


Mr. H. W. Herridge (Kootenay West):: Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the amendment to the amendment moved by the member for Rosetown-Biggar (Mr. Coldwell). I wish to deal particularly with the first two clauses of that amendment, as found on page 68 of Hansard, which read as follows:
We respectfully submit to Your Excellency that Your Excellency's advisers have:
(1)	failed to take adequate measures to preserve and expand markets for Canada's surplus products of farm, forest, sea and mine, and to deal with the problems of increasing unemployment and reduced income to Canadian farmers and other producers: and
(2)	failed to take steps to inaugurate an over-all social security program including national health insurance and the removal of the means test from the old age pension:
Before proceeding with my remarks on the amendment to the amendment, I wish to express my support of the remarks of the member for Rosetown-Biggar, my leader, concerning the international situation, when he was speaking on this address. Without a doubt, thoughtful people everywhere are seriously concerned about international developments. While there is widespread concern over the loss of markets, and unemployment, recent information concerning the hydrogen bomb and its terrible possibilities has focused the attention of the average Canadian, as well as average people everywhere, on the urgent necessity for international control of this frightful weapon of war. I agree, Mr. Speaker, with the member for Rosetown-Biggar when he said there were two alternatives facing us. This is reported at page 66 of Hansard of February 20, and reads as follows:
One Is to despair, to organize our side of the Iron curtain and engage In a furious and intolerable armament race; the other is to bend every effort to find an acceptable plan for international control and inspection, and proceed at the same time to remove from the world the age-old causes of war.
The evidence of growing concern about the development of this terrible weapon comes from many quarters, and those quarters are increasing from day to day. As has been said before, Senator McMahon, the

joint chairman of the United States congressional committee on atomic energy, has made a generous and worth-while proposal. According to his calculations, the United States is spending $15 billion a year on armaments and war preparedness. Quite recently, he proposed that the United States might give a lead by offering the world, through the United Nations, two-thirds of that sum for five years on two conditions. His first condition was a general acceptance of a satisfactory program for the effective control of atomic energy. The second condition was agreement by all countries, enforced by inspections, that two-thirds of their present spending on armaments be used for constructive purposes.
This proposal, Mr. Speaker, continues to receive surprising support from all groups in the United States. It has been welcomed by many individuals and groups in Canada as well as in other countries. In my opinion, the generous spirit of this proposal should receive every encouragement from the government of Canada.
As an indication of the thinking of many Canadians, I wish to quote briefly from some newspapers. I do this because the editorial I wish to read now puts in brief and concrete terms what I have found in letters written to me, and what I have discovered in conversation with my constituents. I am here to present the views of my constituents, Mr. Speaker, so I want to quote an editorial that appeared in the Kootenaian, February 16, 1950. It reads as follows:
Peace cannot be secured through bombs
After the first world war the sincere efforts for world peace of the league of nations were sabotaged by the ruthless agents of International capitalists living in London and New York. Such men in the United States broke Wilson's heart when they steered the support of their country even from membership in the league of nations, and, as they were the world's richest nation, this action resulted in the failure of the league to achieve lasting world peace.
The winning of the second world war was followed by the forming of the United Nations Assembly with whom the establishment of world peace has been entrusted. But the failure of Russia to agree with the western democracies on terms seems to have resulted in stalemate again and there is open talk of a third world war. Entrenched behind possession of the A bomb by the United States, we have been lulled to rest by the fact of United States military might.
We do not wish to enter into an argument over who is right and who is wrong. As we pointed out in our last issue, the great majority of humans in all nations want lasting peace, but it seems that the extremists in both camps keep us from arriving on ground where this can be attained. Is it not inevitable that militarists are the worst possible men to be entrusted with our world peace discussions? And does anyone doubt but that the international armament trusts are again using their large financial powers to keep peace from being established?
The Address-Mr. Herridge
Science up to now has given its discoveries to the entire world, irrespective of national boundaries. Prominent scientists of Egypt, Greece, Italy, France, Germany, Britain, United States and Canada have all contributed to the sum of scientific information that is used universally today for man's welfare.
Now come the A bomb and the H bomb, and they are being treasured up as bolsters to ensure peace. It just won't work. Already the Russians seem to have caught up with the United States in bomb manufacture; and when we imagine them in first place in atomic research, we are brought face up to the futility of such securities for peace.
True peace is a world away from the enthroned materialism which finds expression in militarism and lethal weapons. Peace is the natural expression of culture; it is of the spirit-the spirit of Christianity. We are living (or are we?) in Christian countries; so, if there is any sincerity in our search for peace, why do we not entrust the Christian church with a fair share of the work of establishing it? In our opinion the main missionary strength of the church today should be turned against the pagan influences in our governments and diplomacy, which are gradually but surely driving the world into the biblical Armageddon.
I quote that, Mr. Speaker, because it contains, in brief, passages from many of the letters I have received from a number of people.
Before proceeding further, I should like to quote from the Rural Co-operator, Toronto, February 14, as follows:
But we do believe that peace should be sought at almost any price. We believe that peace in our time cannot be had without paying some price, and with the ever-more-terrifying prospects of the consequences of another war we believe that even a very high price for peace is worth considering.
Then, in conclusion, I see in this morning's Ottawa Citizen a news item headed "York calls for talks on H-bomb", which reads in part as follows:
Dr. Cyril Garbett, Archbishop of York and second highest dignitary of the Church of England, yesterday appealed for an immediate attempt "on the highest level" to reach agreement with Russia on the hydrogen bomb.
Those editorials, Mr. Speaker, and those requests by leading churchmen and church groups, reflect a growing opinion all over the world that our countries on the western side of this world must make every effort possible to see if an agreement cannot be reached before we go on with the greater development of these terrifying weapons of war. In my opinion the belief that the world crisis can be resolved merely by resisting and containing communism is a delusive one. Many have persuaded themselves that this resistance and this containment must take precedence over everything and that Canadian social objectives even must not only be subordinated to the work of containment but, if some people had their way, in many fields sacrificed.
To anyone who is greatly concerned with the whole world situation, and the trend of
36S	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. Herridge social thought and development in our country, it is interesting to read the comments on the present developing situation made in the writings of prominent people. For the information of the house I wish to quote briefly from an article in The Atlantic of August, 1949, entitled "The conquest of America" by Archibald MacLeish, professor at Harvard.
Everyone who has followed that gentleman knows of his high position in the United States and the great contribution he has made there to education and culture. I would advise everyone to read the article because it contains a great deal of thoughtful material.
I read these excerpts because they indicate clearly the dangers that can develop within a democratic society owing to the fears engendered because of the possibility of aggression of other powers:
The inadequacy of the position we have taken, even within its own narrow and negative purpose, is only too obvious. Neither communism nor any other body of positive belief can be overcome in a period of world-wide dissatisfaction and unrest merely by denying it, or by offering, as a substitute, the world of things as they are. It can be fought only by facing it with a true alternative. And the true alternative to communism is not the world of things as they are; nor, even more certainly, is it some other kind of authoritarianism.
The real choice is the choice between all forms of authoritarianism on the one side and, on the other, the dream of a whole and responsible human freedom. . . .
For, by putting the hatred and fear of Russia first we have opened the sacred centre of our lives, our most essential freedoms-the freedoms of mind and thought-to those among us who have always hated those freedoms and who know well how to use our fear of Russia as a mass to cover their disguise attacks. The spread of legalized thought control from points of infection in the congress to state legislature after state legislature across the country is not the work of chance. It is the work of freedom-hating men. And we have laid the nation open to them by our fears ....
It will not be possible for us to argue, when the finger of time is levelled against us, that we did not see what needed to be done. The wisest and soberest and most realistic statesman of our generation warned us three years ago that the job we had to do-the job we had to do whether there were communists around or not-was to make freedom a reality in the post-war world; and Henry L. Stimson did not speak alone.
As one of my correspondents I think so rightly said, at this time if to these problems we are going to have, shall I say, a collective approach which is wider than the bounds of political parties or wider than the bounds of various religious beliefs and faiths, we need a positive and dynamic Christian approach to meet effectively the problems that face us at home and abroad. In my opinion, Mr. Speaker, this government should support to the full the principle of the appeals made by church leaders and statesmen for further efforts toward agreement with the Soviet union.
[Mr. Herridge. I

I wish now, Mr. Speaker, to deal briefly with the first clause of the amendment to the amendment which reads as follows:
(1) failed to take adequate measures to preserve and expand markets for Canada's surplus products of farm, forest, sea and mine, and to deal with the problems of increasing unemployment and reduced income to Canadian farmers and other producers;
Before I conclude I think I can produce evidence which will justify on sound ground the supporting of this amendment to the amendment moved by my leader, the hon. member for Rosetown-Biggar (Mr. Coldwell). The loss of markets and the growing unemployment are evidence of the government's failure to give effect to its former pledges and promises. On that basis, this amendment is fully justified.
First of all, going back to 1945, we had the political promises of the government made during the 1945 election. Throughout this country we had large posters which said "Vote for a new social order", which implied a new social order. In the recent election we had1 posters which said "Vote for more jobs for more people" and posters which said "Vote for markets and prosperity". In my opinion this government, since 1946, has completely changed direction in its attitude to the question of full employment and the question of foreign markets. I shall attempt to prove that statement by a few quotations from various official documents. First of all, article 55 of the United Nations charter has this to say:
With a view to the creation of conditions of stability and well-being which are necessary for peaceful and friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, the United Nations shall promote:
(a)	higher standards of living, full employment and conditions of economic and social progress and development;
(b)	solutions of international economic, social, health, and related problems; and international cultural and educational co-operation; and
(c)	universal respect for, and observance of, human rights and fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language or religion.
Then article 56 reads as follows:
All members pledge themselves to take joint and separate action in co-operation with the organization for the achievement of the purposes set forth in article 55.
We must not forget that our government signed the charter of the United Nations.
Then we come to the white book on "Employment and Income" tabled in this house by Right Hon. C. D. Howe, Minister of Trade and Commerce, early in 1945. I just want to quote from that document briefly:
It has not been possible during the war to accumulate a large "shelf" of ready-planned public projects. The war program has necessarily taken

precedence and the engineering staffs of all governments have been denuded by war demands. Particularly has it been impossible to embark on the planning of new types of comprehensive projects of far-reaching extent. On the other hand, all governments, dominion, provincial and municipal, have a considerable backlog of public projects of the normal sort for maintenance and expansion, which have been deferred during the war years. Some of these are fully planned and others are capable of rapid planning. Governments will wish to carry out these projects as soon as labour and materials are available once more . . .
Accordingly, as an appropriate policy for this period, the dominion proposes to press ahead with the planning of its own deferred works and invites provinces and municipalities to do the same . . .
The deliberate use of public investment expenditures as a permanent instrument in employment policy has to be undertaken experimentally.
Now, after five years, we learn that this program, as set forth in this white paper, has not been fulfilled. We come into an unemployment situation in which the government admits that it has no shelf of public projects planned over a period of years, as there should have been, to which effect could be given when unemployment arose. I will admit that in previous years in the immediate past there was not the necessity to use this shelf of public works; but in 1945 we were promised by this government that they were making plans for a shelf of public works to use as soon as necessary.
I read the Prime Minister's speech carefully. After reading that speech I would say that there is concrete evidence there of a change in direction in government policy since 1945. In 1945 there was emphasis on the necessity for public investment to maintain full employment. Now without question, this government, believing in free enterprise as it does, is emphasizing the ability of private enterprise to provide employment. We must not forget this. Regardless of what the supporters of private or free enterprise, as it is called, say, free enterprise always comes to government to rescue the casualties of unemployment.
What were the proposals of the government of Canada in the green books of August, 1945, Mr. Speaker? I quote again:
In familiar terms, our objectives are high and stable employment and income and a greater sense of public responsibility for individual economic security and welfare. Realization of these objectives for all Canadians, as Canadians, is a cause in which we would hope for national enthusiasm and unity.
The government has clear and definite views on how these objectives can be attained. These views may be summarized very briefly as,
First, to facilitate private enterprise to produce and provide employment;
Secondly, to promote bold action by the state in those fields in which the public interest calls for public enterprise in national development;
The Address-Mr. Herrtdge
Thirdly, to provide, through public investment, productive employment for our human and physical resources when international and other conditions adversely affect employment; and
Fourthly, to provide, on the basis of small regular payments against large and uncertain individual risks, for such hazards and disabilities as unemployment, sickness and old age.
It is quite safe to say, Mr. Speaker, that the government has not taken bold action with respect to providing a shelf of employment projects, and it certainly has not brought before this parliament so far an overall security scheme.
On the basis of this government's statements, on the basis of public statements in the press, speeches by members of this government in 1945 and in the preceding years, 1943 on, various provincial governments in Canada were stimulated to make plans with respect to the post-war rehabilitation period. I know that in the province of British Columbia, as a result of action by the legislature, we formed the post-war rehabilitation council of British Columbia. There was a great deal of enthusiasm and unity concerning the possibilities of joint action between the federal, provincial and municipal governments for the development of an economic order that would provide full employment and markets for agricultural products. That post-war rehabilitation council travelled all over British Columbia. It received briefs from municipal councils; it went to a great deal of trouble to prepare briefs, to outline schemes of development and possibilities for work over the years. It received the same co-operation from trade unions, co-operative organizations and veterans' organizations. I can say that the whole community in British Columbia co-operated to present their views to this post-war rehabilitation council; and without any doubt those efforts were put forth, and that very comprehensive report was drafted, in the belief that this government was going to take the lead in a public investment program in co-operation with provincial and municipal governments. I may say I was a member of the provincial legislature at that time. When we were discussing this question the question of public works was brought to the attention of the government, and it was said that $210 million was to be used for the development of roads and highways. The question came up in the legislature as to how it was to be financed. A member of the cabinet rose at that time and said: "On the basis of the information we have, the federal government will be making generous contributions". That was the expectation.
368	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. Herridge
I want to refer to one or two conclusions in the British Columbia post-war rehabilitation council report. It has this to say with regard to market extension:
Market extension is promised on the conviction that one of the basic principles of reconstruction is that of increased world purchasing power.
Then it continues:
The post-war problems in British Columbia, as elsewhere, will be so complex and complicated they cannot be solved by the government alone. They require the fullest co-ordination between the three governments, federal, provincial and municipal.
I say without any hesitation, Mr. Speaker, that the people of British Columbia, working through their government and organizations representing various groups of people, farming and industrial, made these recommendations in the belief that this government was going to take the lead in a program of national and public investment in this country.
Their report continues-this is a very interesting sentence, in view of what has happened:
One of the other weaknesses of public policy in the last depression was that of public expenditures being too little and too late.
I hope, Mr. Speaker, that history will not repeat itself in that respect, although to a limited extent that is true today because if this government had its plans fully developed it could have relieved to a considerable extent the unemployment that exists in this country at this time, which does not result entirely from seasonal conditions.
What has been the attitude of this government with respect to full employment in the international sphere? I should like to draw to the attention of the house the recommendations of the United Nations which dealt with national and international measures for full employment. The United Nations assembly was urged through the economic and social council to take up the question of full employment and to put forth definite proposals for international projects designed to maintain full employment.
In December, 1949, the five economists to whom the secretary-general of the United Nations referred the matter presented their unanimous report. This report opens up tremendous possibilities and is entirely different from any report that would have been proposed under such auspices a few years ago. In view of the developing economic situation, what these leading economists asked for is an automatic system for the maintenance of world purchasing power to be brought into force at once upon the appearance of any serious signs of recession in any leading country. What they asked was that each 

country shall not only take on measures in its power to prevent a fall in its own domestic level of demand but that it shall guarantee to put at its disposal for the rest of the world a staple surplus of its own currency.
They contemplate the use of such funds largely for advancing development in the borrowing countries and they ask for drastic revision of the statutes of the international bank and of the international monetary fund.
The interesting point of these proposals is the recognition that private investment by the leading countries in the less developed countries is incapable of reaching the volume or stability that the maintenance of full employment requires, and that lending by governments to governments through a neutral international agency provides the only possible answer. That is very clear and definite in the report, and I have read it most carefully, Mr. Speaker.
What was the Canadian government's reaction to the proposals on an international level? As evidence that this government does not believe in international planning, or in domestic plans, to meet the problem of unemployment or markets I want to quote from the Montreal Gazette of January 20, 1950, which deals with the Canadian reaction to the proposals. It is headed:
Canada Snubs Jobless Plan UN Committee told Rigid Work Controls Impracticable Here
Lake Success, New York, January 19-Canada today told a United Nations economic group that rigid automatic measures to counter unemployment are not practicable for the Canadian economy.
John Deutsch, director of international economic relations in Canada's finance department, said Canada's economy is dependent largely on development of natural resources and sale of its products abroad. He said automatic readjustment of taxation and expenditures when unemployment threatens would therefore not be realistic for Canada.
He spoke before the fifteen-member economic and employment commission which is studying recent recommendations by a group of five top economic experts for global and national measures to maintain full employment.
Deutsch urged that the committee refrain from taking direct action on the recommendations, but circulate them among United Nations members requesting views of all governments on the problem.
Turning to the experts' proposals for international action, Deutsch said the unstable equilibrium of world trade and payments is of overriding importance for Canada.
Re-establishment of an adequate flow of international investments as proposed by the experts would be an excellent development, he said. But it does not appear likely in view of the present outlook, he added.
That is the end of the quotation from the Montreal Gazette. But it means this, that the Canadian representative turned down the proposals made by this committee of the

United Nations to deal with the question of full employment as a result of international planning.
What are we doing about the development of our markets? I see my time has almost expired, but before taking my seat I should like to say that anyone who is interested in the question of the marketing of agricultural products would be well advised to read the speech of the hon. member for Acadia (Mr. Quelch), as it is reported at page 190 of Hansard for February 23. As usual, the hon. member gave a most intelligent and comprehensive review of the situation.
The Secretary of State for External Affairs (Mr. Pearson) admits that the standard of living of eastern peoples must be raised and must be improved if democracy is to be developed in those areas. On the one hand we refuse opportunities to develop full employment through international planning and, on the other hand, we see people starving. Yet we admit that if democracy is to be developed these peoples must have access to our surplus products.
What has happened in that respect? We have world food plans. In September of 1946 Lord John Boyd Orr submitted his proposals for a world food board to stabilize agricultural prices of commodities on the world market, and included in those proposals the provision of funds for stabilizing functions, and so on. Time will not permit me to place on record all the details of his plan, but I would comment briefly by saying that the plan was rejected. Canada was elected to the world food council in September of 1947, but hope for the plan was smothered by a revision of these proposals. Nowhere do I find any evidence of Canada's having supported them.
Again, the conference of the International Federation of Agricultural Producers was held at Guelph in June, 1949, and made proposals for intergovernmental commodity agreements providing for an international agency which would deal with the commodities concerned.
In addition, the International Federation of Agricultural Producers recommended special action programs to move surpluses of agricultural products which already exist in certain countries to other countries where people remain ill fed and ill clothed because they lack the means of production and purchasing power. I find no evidence of Canada's having supported those proposals.
The meeting of the food and agricultural organization at Washington in November, 1949, made plans to establish an international commodity clearing house to channel agricultural surpluses into countries where food was
The Address-Mr. Herridge badly needed. The Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner) has made it quite clear that this government is opposed to all such schemes. Referring to the international commodity clearing house the minister is reported to have said, "We don't need that; we can do it ourselves."
Without question our government has turned its back on proposals for international planning, for the creating of full employment and the marketing of world surpluses in what would be considered an unorthodox way.
What is the attitude of the farmer? I have not time to deal at length with that subject, but we do know that the farmers in this country are behind these proposals. The British Columbia fruit growers association at its last annual convention, in January, passed a resolution in which it heartily supported the action of the Canadian Federation of Agriculture, and the resolution passed by that federation was in these words:
Whereas the FAO international commodity clearing house seeks to establish:
1.	The maintenance of a high level of production and employment.
2.	The reduction of trade restrictions, including tariffs and quantitative and monetary restrictions.
3.	An increase in the standards of productive efficiency, particularly in western Europe.
4.	International investment to finance export and import surpluses and
5.	The restoration of convertible currencies and multilateral transactions as a basis of world trade- all of which is designed to feed properly an undernourished world and thus utilize all presently available and potential food and fibre production.
Therefore, the British Columbia Fruit Growers' Association in its 1950 annual convention commends the Canadian Federation of Agriculture for promoting so effectively the world food pool principle and the sixty-one countries which make up FAO for planning to put this world-essential principle into active operation, and urges the Canadian government to give this project its complete support.
The fruit growers of British Columbia are keenly interested in this proposal, because they are facing a serious situation in connection with the returns from this year's crop and the disposal of the new crop. I shall not deal at length with this phase of the matter because the hon. member for Yale (Mr. Jones) intends to do so later in the debate.
To maintain our markets I support the proposal of the hon. member for Rosetown-Biggar (Mr. Coldwell) that, instead of demanding payment in dollars by the sterling area, we accept more goods and part payment in sterling, and the reinvestment of this sterling in the undeveloped sterling areas. That is not a complete solution, but it is an immediate approach to the present world economic difficulties.
In addition to that, we support international planning along the lines suggested by the

The Address-Mr. Herridge international commodity clearing house tor the distribution of our greatly required agricultural surpluses.
In addition to that, and above all, I am sure if we are going to play our part in the restoration of the world economy we will find that in some cases it will be necessary to make gifts to certain countries. I should like to see agricultural surpluses disposed of in that way, and paid for out of taxation, rather than see large sums being spent on unemployment relief. By being able to produce we will maintain morale and do something effective towards solving economic questions.
Before taking my seat I should like to speak briefly about unemployment. At this time we have in Canada about 400,000 unemployed -these are the numbers registered. We have these unemployed, despite our great natural resources, and our great human resources. How does this figure compare with those of the United States and Great Britain? The latest figures for Great Britain show 329,000 unemployed, a labour force of 23 million, and a percentage of 1-4 unemployed. Similar figures for the United States show 4,800,000 jobless, with a labour force of 60 million, and a percentage of unemployed of 7-5. On the basis of 323,000 jobless and a labour force of 5-1 million, Canada has a percentage of 6-3 unemployed.
What about Australia and New Zealand? They are both in a position quite different from ours. There is full employment in New Zealand; and on the basis of information radioed from Australia today they have about
1.000	registered unemployed; but they have
107.000	jobs for which applicants cannot De found.
Let us compare the position in Australia with that of Canada. Here we have greater natural resources and greater opportunities. I will admit that we have seasonal unemployment, a form of unemployment which can be taken care of through the use of the Unemployment Insurance Act. Over and above that however, as evidenced by the mounting numbers of unemployed in the early fall months, we have in this country a genuine unemployment situation which has no relationship to weather conditions.
We believe that the government should1 give effect to the promises it has made commencing in 1945, and should develop public investment policies which can only be successfully developed as the result of planning over a period of time. That is my major criticism of the government. These projects were not planned and developed so that they could be put into operation when the need arose. We know now that the government is proceeding

with the proposal for a trans-Canada highway. It is making expenditures under the Canada Forestry Act, as well as other departmental expenditures. Nevertheless the bare fact is that at this time there are thousands of Canadians unemployed and wasting their ability to labour because the government has not put into effect plans to put them to work.
I now want to deal with my own constituency for a few minutes. In Kootenay West at the present time there are about 2,000 registered unemployed. I admit that undoubtedly some of these men are seasonally unemployed, but I think if the government had given previous consideration to the question many of them could have been working to the advantage of Canada. I suggest that there are projects which are feasible in the winter months. I will admit there are difficulties in the wintertime in carrying out certain types of projects in some parts of Canada, but for the information of the house I shall give a few projects that with proper planning could be undertaken in the district I represent in order to absorb those who are unemployed at this time. For instance, we need a million dollar expenditure on the extension of the river wall alongside the Columbia river to protect the city of Trail. I am not going to lay the primary blame on the dominion government in that respect because I believe the principle the government has established is sound, namely, that provincial governments should place their plans before the dominion government. I believe that the municipalities should deal with the problems first, and that the province concerned should make application on behalf of the municipality. The government has a sound reason for saying that nothing has been done because the provincial government of British Columbia has failed to make suggestions to the federal government as to the need for the building of a river wall at Trail.
Then there is other work in unincorporated areas along the Columbia river which could well be done in the wintertime. In previous years it has been done then. I refer to the prevention of erosion of the banks of the Columbia river at certain points. We also need a new federal building at Trail, but to construct such a building in order to absorb the unemployed in a certain period of the year requires previous planning and, shall I say, an abnormal direction of effort. We also need a new federal building at Nelson. I submit, Mr. Speaker, that these are some of the things that could be accomplished in my own constituency even during the winter months.
I have not time to speak about clause 2 of the amendment to the amendment which criticizes the government for not introducing an over-all security program. One is fully

justified in supporting clauses 1 and 2 of the amendment to the amendment because the present government has not brought before the house proposals for an over-all security program. Are we going to continue to waste our human and natural resources? In the direction of our economic affairs are we going to continue to accept what I would term the philosophy of the money-changers who still have control of the economic policies of the western world? On the other hand, are we going to justify our claim to be a Christian democracy by using our human and natural resources to the advantage of Canadians and of alb mankind? In view of the record of the government and the evidence and facts before us, I think the house would be fully justified in supporting the amendment to the amendment.


Mr. W. M. Molt (New Westminster):: Mr. Speaker, this is the first time I have risen to speak in the house. As one of the junior members on the government side, with only five weeks in the house during the last session and two weeks during this session, I want to say it is a real privilege for me to have the opportunity of expressing my thoughts and views to the house, and also certain ideas I have which may be of some benefit to the whole of the great Dominion of Canada. First of all, I should like to join in the congratulations and expressions of appreciation that have been extended to the mover (Mr. Larson) and seconder (Mr. Dumas) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne. I am certain I could not find words to add to those which have already been uttered in commendation of them. I am sure we are all proud of these two young members and that we all look forward to hearing from them on many occasions in the future.
I have the honour to represent the constituency of New Westminster, which includes three large municipalities in the surrounding area. Over twenty years ago Senator Tom Reid, the previous member for that district, came here as a new member of the house. No doubt on first entering the house he put forward his views as to his constituency. Therefore I think it is only right and proper that I should say something on behalf of my constituents. Hon. members presume, when a member rises to speak about his constituency, he has some knowledge of his subject. Before dealing with that question, on behalf of the citizens of New Westminster and the surrounding district I should like to say how much they appreciate the honour that has been conferred upon Senator Tom Reid by his elevation to the Senate. He served his early term as an apprentice in this house faithfully and well. I am sure
The Address-Mr. Mott the people I represent would want me to convey to the Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent) our appreciation of and thanks for this worthy appointment.
New Westminster is an industrial city and includes the port of New Westminster, the fastest growing fresh water port in the Dominion of Canada today. It is an export and import point, and very little coastal shipping goes in and out of there. Within the bounds of the city there are many industries. We have some of the largest lumber mills in the British empire. There is salmon fishing on the Fraser river, and we have the great salmon canning industry employing about 20,000 of our people. Across the river we have three rural municipalities, Surrey, Delta and Langley, whose main pursuit is farming. They run approximately fifty miles inland along the south bank of the Fraser river, and are bounded on one side by the river and on the other by the international boundary. I mention these three municipalities together with my own city for the simple reason that there are very few things which come up in this house which do not affect them in one way or another. In that district I believe we also have the largest poultry farming area in British Columbia.
I come here, Mr. Speaker, not with experience with the senior government but having municipal experience and the municipal point of view. I served on the council for five years, and as mayor of New Westminster for six years, and for a term as president of the union of British Columbia municipalities. After having spent so much time in municipal life naturally my feelings today are for municipal governments. Therefore I should like to devote part of my time to some of the problems facing the municipalities today.
I listened with a great deal of interest to the previous speaker, who dealt with many of the things I had intended to mention. However, I shall try to elaborate on them from my personal experience. One of the first things I should like to deal with is the financial set-up in the municipalities. No doubt you are all well acquainted with the means by which the municipalities do their financing. Land taxation seems to be the main: source of revenue, though certain large cities have a business tax, while others have public utilities from which they derive certain benefits. In the main, however, their revenue comes from the land; and when under provincial legislation education is left to the municipalities, it means that education must be paid for by taxes imposed on land.
During the recess I visited several municipalities in the west, and for a moment I should like to touch upon one point in regard

The Address-Mr. Mott to unemployment. Much work could be provided by the municipalities if they had ways and means of raising the money to pay for it. As the previous speaker mentioned, it is only too true that a municipality must approach this government through the provincial government, because the province is asked to be responsible for the finances of its municipalities. That prompts me to suggest that we should bring back the municipal aid act that was discontinued in 1937. There is no doubt that if this aid were given today it would go far toward helping the municipalities take care of their unemployed, and thus assist in alleviating the unemployment situation that exists today. This aid was given at a time when unemployment was at a low level. Such work as ditching, brushing and similar projects could be found in any municipality. I realize that this assistance must be applied for through the provincial government; I understand that the municipalities of British Columbia are requesting the government of that province to apply for that aid once more. I am making the same request now, so that if possible the municipalities may have that assistance now or in the immediate future.
I think we all agree that the strongest link in our chain of government is the municipal government. At the last dominion-provincial conference some of the municipalities were left out. I believe some of the provincial governments took their municipalities into their confidence before going to the conference, but that was not the case with all provinces. We in British Columbia were not allowed to submit any requests to our government to be brought forward at that time. I do not see how we can change the constitution of this country as it affects the general dominion-provincial set-up without in some way interfering with the provincial-municipal set-up as well. So I suggest that when the next dominion-provincial conference is held this government should see to it that a representative group from the mayors' association is given an opportunity to present their views, in the form of a brief or otherwise, before final agreements are reached.
As one instance of what I have in mind in this connection I might mention the amusement tax which this government took over during the war. When that tax was dropped most of the provincial governments imposed it for their own benefit. Personally I believe that when the dominion government dropped that tax it intended that it should go back to the municipalities. In a municipality, say the council is called upon to submit a bylaw to the people to find the money to put up a

skating rink or other recreational centre, which may be of value in improving the health of our future citizens, but the ratepayers are still burdened with a 25 per cent amusement tax that was then imposed, merely because professional hockey or baseball is being played there. I am citing one instance to more or less substantiate what I was saying about dominion-provincial-municipal relations.
I should like to say a word about the housing act that was passed last year. In all sincerity, I congratulate the government upon the institution of an act which will do something towards supplying these badly needed homes. I believe that these houses can be of greater benefit in the large urban centres than they can in our fast-growing rural areas. During the recess I had an opportunity of speaking to the representatives of various municipalities. I learned that the big problem in opening up land for building purposes is not the question of repayment of the cost of the necessary utilities, but the question of schools. The building of new homes in communities that are already overcrowded only means increasing an already heavy school burden. I think perhaps this government should do something towards helping to finance these schools.
As one who has served on a municipal council, I should like to take this opportunity of thanking the government for recognizing crown lands and granting assistance in lieu of taxation. It may not be just what we wanted, but at the same time it is a step in the right direction. Action in this direction has been long overdue, and I feel that in starting with the thin edge of the wedge, the government may be induced to go further in helping the municipalities pay for the services that have been such a burden to municipal ratepayers.
I have listened, Mr. Speaker, with a great deal of interest to the many speakers in this house. Since I am a new member and do not know many of them, it is rather difficult to grasp their ideas, or the criticisms which they have aimed at the government. Listening to the speeches here reminded me of the years I spent as a trade unionist, listening to many interesting speeches about the law of supply and demand. Any man who could solve that problem would be held in the highest esteem. As one listens to this debate, one is reminded of the many occasions upon which we have seemed to be on the point of solving that problem, but apparently because something has been left out of the formula, we dropped back. It seems to me that if we could only solve that problem we would be able to go forward at much greater speed,.

It is my intention today to try to offer some few suggestions, first of all, about unemployment. I believe we must look forward to a properly planned program. If we had such a program from one end of Canada to the other, it would go a long way towards solving the unemployment problem. We understand that most of the unemployment today is of a seasonal nature. Nevertheless, we do not know exactly when something more serious is going to happen, and if we have not a program we may be called upon to pay out millions of dollars in the dole. In connection with this planned program,
I believe we could follow the lead of the many municipalities that have adopted town planning programs. That is on a small scale, but we could probably follow some such plan from one end of the dominion to the other.
I should like to mention some of the things which should fit into such a planned program, as I see it from looking at conditions in my own constituency. First of all, it will be necessary to have a certain amount of building construction throughout Canada, regardless of the area or whether it is done by private enterprise, the dominion government or the provincial government. The dominion and provincial programs should be lined up to fit in with the number of trades we have in Canada. If we knew the number of trades that would be involved in any depression, some kind of program could be worked out. I do not believe in this idea of putting advertisements in the paper every spring for tenders on public buildings. I believe that work should be spread over a period of time, and the places selected in which it is necessary to give employment.
I should like to say a few words about another problem that I believe faces us on the Pacific coast. It is something that should be planned for, and that is our export-import trade. What are we doing or what are we going to do for the necessary facilities to handle these cargoes? For instance, in the port of New Westminster we have nine docks. Before the war the largest number of deep-sea ships that ever came into that port was about 550. We are now faced with this problem of trade that we expect will arise with the Far East-that is, with Japan and China- from which most of the trade to that port came before the war. I am certain that the present dock facilities in the port of New Westminster will never be able to handle that trade, and I am quite certain that Vancouver today has not the facilities to handle it. I am only mentioning this matter because it is something else that no doubt should be planned, so that money could be loaned and we would know just where we were going.
The Address-Mr. Mott
I should like to mention another matter which I believe would be of some help to the growth of this country, and which I believe should be investigated; I refer to the matter of a free port or free zone or free warehousing in the various ports of Canada today. We have heard many speakers on this particular problem. We know that in Seattle there is a certain area for this purpose, but I do not believe that Canada has ever gone into the question and made a thorough investigation of a free port or free zone or free warehousing in order to build up our ports. It is not a new thing. It is over two hundred1 years old on the European continent, but I do not believe that we have ever gone into it, to find out whether it would be of benefit to us or not.
Another matter that I believe we should investigate thoroughly is that of railways, not only those nationally-owned but also the ones owned by the provinces. I am not speaking with regard to any other, province than British Columbia. At the present time we have a railway starting from a certain point and1 going a certain distance. There is no doubt that it is the intention of the provincial government to finish the railway which will be of great benefit not only to British Columbia but also to the Dominion of Canada. As to planning the final stages of that railway, I believe it should be done in- conjunction with the federal government here, with our Department of National Defence and perhaps with our friends across the border in the United States. It may not be necessary to call in all those bodies but it is my belief that in planning for the future that is something that certainly should be taken into consideration.
As to unemployment, I have just this one other suggestion to offer with regard to a planned program of work to be done, and *that is a tunnel across the mouth of the Fraser river. Here is a project valued at around $6 million or $7 million. It may not have any direct bearing on the dominion government, but it has on the provincial government. In planning for the future, here is one project that should be given consideration at the present time. An organization of some 350 members and several of our municipalities request this tunnel. The only thing they ask for is $10,000 for a proper survey. The tunnel, which would be paid for by tolls, would give employment to thousands at the present time. It is a project that would cost in the neighbourhood of $5 million or $6 million. It is almost impossible to find out where the help would come from with regard to getting such a project started.
I am not going to say any more at this time, Mr. Speaker. I have a great deal of material before me, such as press clippings. It was my thought at the start that I would endeavour
j74	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. Shaw to speak for forty minutes, this being the first time that I have offered a word at all in this house. As time goes on, however, and as I become more acquainted with the proceedings, I am certain that you will hear further from me. I think I can say on behalf of my own constituency that we appreciate what the government have done and the good work they are doing at the present time. I am sure that the program' enunciated during the last election will be fulfilled. The Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent), in his very able speech on the address in reply to the speech from the throne, mentioned that the promises made during the election would no doubt be fulfilled; at the present time some of them have been fulfilled. I am not going to say anything more, except that I am glad to have this opportunity to address the house, and I hope that some of the suggestions I have made will be given serious attention by the government.


Mr. F. D. Shaw (Red Deer):: At the commencement of my remarks this afternoon, Mr. Speaker, I should1 like to extend congratulations to the mover and the seconder of the address in reply to the speech from the throne. I believe that all of us who heard the hon. member for Kindersley (Mr. Larson) and the hon. member for Villeneuve (Mr. Dumas) will agree that they acquitted themselves in a commendable fashion.
The throne speech itself covers a wide range of subjects. I noted, among other things, reference to the conference with the representatives of the provinces, housing, the trans-Canada highway, international affairs, national defence, employment and unemployment, trade, rent control, veterans legislation, revision of the Indian Act, and so forth. A number of those subjects have already been debated rather extensively during this session, ft is not my desire nor my intention to endeavour to cover them all. In fact, in the forepart of my remarks I intend to depart from them almost entirely. The reference to the Indian Act may have taken my mind back to something which I brought before the House of Commons on December 9 last. Hon. members who were here on that occasion may recall that we were considering the estimates of the Department of National Health and Welfare, Indian health services, and I brought before the house then a specific problem of great importance. It is true that the problem related specifically to my own constituency and affected approximately 350 persons, namely, the treaty Indians of the Sunchild Cree reservation and the non-treaty Chippewa Indians of that area. In the course of my observations in December I laid emphasis upon the extremely appalling health conditions which then prevailed among that 

group of people, and they still prevail. I attributed these conditions to a number of things, among which were inadequate housing and no plans for properly executed enterprise, but above all else, Mr. Speaker, no plans to conduct a comprehensive health survey among these people. Upon that occasion I had intended to deal in great detail with exactly what had taken place during recent months and recent years, and to present to this house a comprehensive analysis of the problem from every conceivable angle. But the Minister of National Health and Welfare (Mr. Martin) rendered such a task on my part unnecessary-at least I thought it was unnecessary-when he interjected the following words which are recorded in Hansard for December 9, at page 3008. I would remind hon. members that he interjected after I had spoken for ten or fifteen minutes:
I wonder if I might say a word, after which my hon. friend may not find it necessary to go a great deal further. He will recall bringing this matter to my attention earlier. As a result a survey was undertaken, and a nurse is to be appointed. We had hoped to get her out there quickly, but she has to leave another post to follow up on that survey. I want to thank my hon. friend for bringing the matter to my attention. I can say also that arrangements have been made with the doctors there which I believe are satisfactory. Following my hon. friend's suggestions I think he will find that we are taking corrective action.
I expressed my appreciation to the minister and to the government and I said that I would not go further upon that occasion. After all, what I was seeking was a solution, but I did conclude by saying this:
I shall go among these Indians and talk to the doctors and the nurse.
The minister said:
I hope you will keep me advised. If not, I shall go out there myself.
Last month I did spend a good deal of time out there and what I learned could cause me to be caustically critical today, but rather my speech will be delivered in an atmosphere of sorrow, sorrow for being taken in the way I was last December.
On January 9 and January 10 and again on January 28 and 29 I went into the Rocky Mountain House district. I conferred with the doctors, I conferred with hospital authorities, I conferred with many persons in town,
I conferred with a number of the Cree and the Chippewa Indians, and I learned this: First, that no arrangements whatsoever had been made with the doctors. To this day they have not had the scratch of a pen from the Department of National Health and Welfare relative to that matter. Second, no arrangement has been made with the municipal hospital for the admission of Indian patients; in fact, they are being excluded in the absence of an agreement. Third, there

was no evidence of any health survey being undertaken, unless it can be said that for a nurse to come into town one day, which is thirty miles from the reservation, and go out the next, is a health survey. Personally, such could not be considered by me as being an acceptable survey at all.
Obviously the Minister of National Health and Welfare has some explaining to do. I realize that he cannot have a personal knowledge of everything that goes on within every branch of his department. I will concede that point. He must depend upon the information which is conveyed to him by the authorities of the various branches within his department. Possibly he was taken in. In any event there is some explaining to do, or else he is going to experience some difficulty in getting out of doing what he said he might have to do, namely, go in there himself.
May I emphasize, Mr. Speaker, what I said upon that occasion, namely, the desperately bad situation among these people. It is not only these people who are affected. Some of them are in town every day, and they are circulating among the white people. Let me remind the house that it is estimated 50 per cent have tuberculosis, and it is conceded that an equally large number are inflicted with venereal disease.
It is conceivable that the Minister of National Health and Welfare, or the officials of his department, may have negotiated arrangements with doctors other than those in the town of Rocky Mountain House. That was not the implication in the statement that was made last fall, because I mentioned the doctors by name. It is conceivable that they may have made some type of arrangement for hospitalization elsewhere than in the vicinity; it is also conceivable that they may have a health survey in operation; but it is one of these things that certainly it is impossible for anyone to detect.
Let me emphasize, the logical place for these people to be treated is locally. The logical place for them to be hospitalized, except of course in advanced cases of tuberculosis and so on, would be there. I would say in cases of tuberculosis the patients should be taken to the Charles Camsell hospital. That would be the proper place for them to be treated. The effect of the failure to negotiate an agreement with the hospital and doctors in this area simply means that 98 per cent of the patients are beyond hope when they reach the Charles Camsell hospital in Edmonton.
Last fall I read case histories of people ranging in age from five years to thirty-six. Those reports would almost make one's blood run cold. I am not going to take further time upon that matter. I trust that the Minister
The Address-Mr. Shaw of National Health and Welfare will be prepared to take action in this matter. If not I am going to press the matter upon every conceivable occasion that I can squeeze it in. I trust that at least before this session of parliament is over we shall be able to say that some concrete action has been taken to solve this problem.
On the same day, December 9, we were discussing the Indian affairs branch, which came under the Department of Mines and Resources at that time. I referred to this health situation and said to the Minister of Mines and Resources: "It will be extremely necessary for the officials of the Indian Affairs branch to give serious and thoughtful consideration to the responsibilities that rest upon them in this connection." At that time I referred to the question of the Chippewa Indians refusing, up to that date, to accept treaty. From what later took place, Mr. Speaker, I know that my remarks were misunderstood, at least in one quarter. I criticized the actions of someone, whom I did not desire to name, in the method of dealing with these Chippewa Indians. At that time I was referring to the former Indian agent, and I was not referring to anyone else. I stated at that time that I was not satisfied with the operation of the agency at that point, and I was not satisfied with the economic aspect of the problem as related to those Indians. I want to pay tribute to the former Minister of Mines and Resources, because he at least took the first and most essential step.
The new agent at Rocky Mountain House possesses, I believe, the experience and knowledge necessary to qualify him for his position. We feel, too, that his generally sympathetic attitude towards the problem will commend him for that post. We hope he will be able to meet and to solve the many acute problems which have existed for too long. But his success or failure will depend upon two things: To an appreciable extent it will depend, first, upon government policy and, secondly, upon the degree of co-operation he receives from his superiors.
I went right into the reservation, which is thirty miles from the town of Rocky Mountain House. It is a heavily timbered area. Upon that occasion I had what is sometimes called a powwow with the Indians themselves, and here are a few of the things I learned from personal observation and from discussion with them. I should hope my comments would be conveyed to the officials of the Indian affairs branch.
I learned, first, that the Indians in that area are asking for only one thing, and that is the opportunity to be self-supporting. May I add in passing that there is very

The Address-Mr. Shaw little evidence of any encouragement being given to them, a feature which is most essential if they are to become self-supporting. There must be an appropriation for livestock. Some time I am going to inquire as to the exact amount of money spent in there. Lands must be cleared under supervision in order to provide feed for the livestock-and I use the word "cleared" because this is a wooded area. Nothing could be more appalling to the individual than to see what I saw there-livestock dying from lack of feed. Nothing could be more discouraging for the Indians than to clear land, as many of them did, on which feed could be grown, and then to have that ground stand for three or four years, and not have it inspected or approved for breaking until the end of the four years. Then it is broken in October. I am sure the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner) will appreciate what happens to land when it is broken at a time when frost is setting in at night, in the month of October.
There must be supervision in the matter of home construction. It is ridiculous to make appropriations for home construction in that area, and then permit to happen that which has happened. Many of these homes have been spoiled because no one has told the Indians how to mix cement. It is mighty hard to stomach a situation where windows, doors, roofing materials and other building materials have been left out in the open for two years, and have deteriorated to a point where they are valueless. These are materials which, I presume, were purchased for the use of the Indians.
Here is one of the worst features of the whole thing. It is estimated that there are 25 million feet of merchantable timber on that reservation-and I have that figure from an expert lumberman. If that timber were farmed, as we say, those Indians would have a million feet of lumber per year for the next twenty-five years, or a half million for the next fifty years. But that timber is
now being murdered-and I can think of no other suitable term. They have a saw mill just outside the reservation, operated by a white man-and incidentally he is one of the best, and is one hundred per cent interested in the Indians. However, he has no authority to set foot on the reservation.
Those Indians are in there cutting the timber, and it would look as though they are just shutting their eyes and swinging their axes. The result is that they are leaving some of the best timber, the large trees, to blow over, after they have taken the rest of it. They have been given no guidance in this matter, with the result that the cost of moving the logs out and making the lumber is almost prohibitive.
Surely it is not too much to ask the department to give the Indians the instruction and advice which is necessary if they are to make the best possible use of that timber. I suggested last fall, and I repeat it today, that assistance should be given to enable them to take one or more smaller, portable saw mills in on the reservation.
I understand some steps are being taken in the matter of education, but little progress is being made. The Indians have been instructed to cut logs about thirty feet long for a school but I doubt very much if they will ever be able to get them out to the proper place, because there is no supervision in their cutting.
As it is almost six o'clock, and I could not possibly finish before that time, I would move the adjournment of the debate.
Motion (Mr. Shaw) agreed to and debate adjourned.



BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

Mr. Fournier (Hull) moved: the adjournment of the house.
He said: Tomorrow we will continue this debate.
Motion agreed to and the house adjourned at 5.55 p.m.

Thursday, March 2, 1950