1950-02-17

Right Hon. L. S. St. Laurent (Prime Minister):: Mr. Speaker, on November 26 last, during the course of the discussion on the bills that were then before the house for the establishment of three new departments, the hon. member for Peel (Mr. Graydon) suggested that when the departments were set up it would be convenient to have charts prepared showing the branches of the service that would be included in each new department.
The departments were set up in accordance with proclamations which were published in the Canada Gazette of January 28 at pages 320 and 321. We have had charts prepared showing the distribution of the branches of the service among the new departments, and I should like to table two copies of each of these charts and to say that they have been made available for distribution to all hon. members of both houses.


Mr. Graydon:: They have been distributed already.



REPORTS AND PAPERS

[Stage Direction]
(For list of departmental and other reports tabled, see Votes and Proceedings, No. 2, of February 17, 1950.)


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Gordon Graydon: Mr. Speaker, I should like to address a question to the Minister of Transport. When may we expect the service of the Canadian National Railways in Canada to be restored to normal?


Mr. Coldwell:: Perhaps the minister might answer at the same time the question I sent him a day or two ago. I will not repeat it.


Hon. Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport):: Mr. Speaker, the leader of the C.C.F. party (Mr. Coldwell) was good enough to send me some two days ago notice of a question similar to that which the hon. member for
Peel (Mr. Graydon) has asked. In fairness to members on this side of the house who have also been pressing for a statement on the subject, I think I should say that at the time I received notice from the hon. member I already had a statement prepared on the situation, because I expected that some such question would be asked. With the permission of the house I should like to read it now.
On December 28,	1949, the Canadian
National Railways announced reductions in passenger train service equivalent to approximately 25 per cent, effective January 9, 1950. These were made necessary by the reduction of the stockpile position of coal on the Canadian National Railways. Neither the government nor myself was previously advised of this decision.
Since the reductions were announced, officers of my department and myself have been in constant touch with the management of the Canadian National on this question of coal supply. I have asked the new chairman and president, Mr. Donald Gordon, to give me a memorandum setting out in detail the events leading up to the decision curtailing passenger train services. At my request, Mr. Vaughan, the former chairman and president, has given me a letter of explanation of the circumstances which brought about the present situation.
I would like to summarize to the house these events.
First of all, the board of directors of the Canadian National Railways, at its meeting in October, 1948, approved an objective of
2,365,000	tons of coal for stockpile as at December 31, 1949-this being about four and one-half months' supply. I am advised that if this stockpile objective had been obtained, a reduction in train services would not have been necessary unless there had been a complete interruption of supplies covering, say, a three or four months' period. Early in June, 1949, Mr. Vaughan, then president, gave instructions to the purchasing department to keep the coal stocks of the C.N.R. at approximately three months' supply. He was of the opinion that such reserve was ample to meet any emergency. The events which occurred in the coal industry, coupled with the decision of Mr. Vaughan, had the effect of reducing the stockpile objective, as set out by the board of directors in October, 1948, from 2,365,000 tons to 1,043,000 tons at December 31, 1949. This meant that a condition of emergency existed, since the coal supply in the heavy traffic
24	HOUSE OF
Canadian National Railways region of the Canadian National was at that time only from twenty-four to twenty-six days. I may say that the over-all position of the Canadian National was somewhat better than the twenty-four to twenty-six days which I have just indicated.
It is well known that there has been a series of work interruptions in United States mines from June, 1949, to the present time. There were work stoppages, vacation periods, a three-day-a-week work program, a fifty-one day strike, a walkout, and at the present time a general strike throughout United States coal fields since February 13.
While orders for the purchasing of United States coal have been held to a minimum in accordance with the government policy of the conservation of United States dollar expenditures, the actual orders placed for Canadian and United States coal generally would have been sufficient to meet requirements if regular deliveries had been maintained from the United States mines. Unfortunately such a condition did not prevail, and late in December the Canadian National had to curtail passenger train services in order to maintain coal supplies. The reduction in passenger train services put into effect totalled some
89,000	miles, bringing about an estimated reduction in coal consumption of approximately 1,000 tons per day. Thq passenger train miles which were cancelled were distributed as follows for the various regions:
Atlantic region	 13,700
Central region	 45.800
Western region	 26,300
United States lines	 3,200
The development of the labour disputes in the United States mines, and the interruption of coal deliveries, found the Canadian National with an inadequate stockpile position, and action had to be taken to conserve system stockpiles and use them to the best advantage so as to reduce public inconvenience to a minimum. I am firmly convinced that the precautionary measure taken by the Canadian National to reduce temporarily passenger train services by 25 per cent was fully warranted by the conditions which I have described, and I also believe that it was only fair that all sections of Canada should be treated in the same way so far as the reduction in passenger train services was concerned.
It is most unfortunate that the situation which I have reviewed culminated in a temporary reduction in the Canadian National passenger train services. I can assure the house that as soon as the coal supply situation improves, the passenger train services which have been curtailed will be reinstated. I wish also to assure the house that at no time did the management of the Canadian National consider reducing its passenger train services


with a view to financial economies. On the contrary the reduction in passenger train services was resorted to in order to conserve the dwindling coal stocks, and to prevent, if possible, subsequent greater reduction in train services, as happened in the case of the railways in the United States.


Gordon Graydon: I should like to ask a supplementary question which is being asked by many people, including the employees of the Canadian National Railways. While train services are being curtailed by the Canadian National, apparently the Canadian Pacific has plenty of coal. Surely there should be some explanation of this error in judgment on the part of the Canadian National management, as a result of which the Canadian Pacific is said to be now getting a great deal more business.


Lionel Chevrier: I tried to bring that out in the statement I have just made; but I would say that the positions of the Canadian National and Canadian Pacific in this country are entirely different. The main mileage of the Canadian Pacific is in western Canada, whereas the greater part of the mileage of the Canadian National is in central Canada, Ontario and Quebec. Speaking from memory, I believe the Canadian National have some
11,000	miles of railway east of Manitoba, as opposed to some 5,600 miles operated by the Canadian Pacific. In other words, for the most part the Canadian Pacific is operating in a region where there are coal mines, whereas the Canadian National is operating in central Canada where there are none.


Mr. Brooks:: I should like to know if it would not be possible to get more coal from the maritime provinces, and why more coal was not obtained there by the Canadian National Railways.


Lionel Chevrier: That is a question which it would require some little time to answer in detail. Generally speaking, however, the Canadian National is taking from the maritime provinces, as well as from western Canada, all the coal it can get at the moment.


Alfred Johnson Brooks: That is not the impression in the maritimes.


Lionel Chevrier: Even if the Canadian National had taken all the coal it could have obtained in 1949 in the maritime provinces and in western Canada, the present position would have been no different.


Mr. Isnor:: Can the minister tell us what quantity of the 2,365,000 tons of coal in the stockpile came from the United States and what quantity came from Canadian mines?


Lionel Chevrier: I am sorry, but I have not that information at my fingertips.

Inquiries of the Ministry


Gordon Benjamin Isnor: Perhaps the minister would be good enough to give it later.


Gordon Graydon: Why not tell us yourself?


Mr. Gillis:: Will the minister say whether in his opinion, in view of the statement he has just made, a 25 per cent reduction in train services in the maritimes was necessary, having in mind the fact that plenty of coal was available there to provide the service?


Lionel Chevrier: My hon. friend bases his question on the assumption that there was plenty of coal.


Clarence Gillis: The provincial government said so.


Lionel Chevrier: I am telling my hon. friend now that according to the information I have in my possession, emanating from Canadian National Railway sources, there was not available in the maritime region all the coal that they hoped to get. They are receiving full co-operation from the maritime region at the moment, and are taking all the coal they can obtain; but that did not always prevail.
As to why the reduction in service was carried out all over Canada, the Canadian National management thought-and I am of the opinion as well-that the fair thing to do was apportion the reduction in all parts of Canada. If that had not been done the transcontinental trains probably would not be operating.


Major James William Coldwell: In view of the circumstances I should like to know whether the government and the railways will give consideration to the greater utiliza'tion of Canadian coal and oil in the operation of our railway systems.


Lionel Chevrier: My hon. friend raises quite
an important point. As he probably knows, it has been the policy of the Canadian National to change from coal-burning to oilburning locomotives in western Canada. I think the hon. gentleman knows that in all British Columbia and in parts of Alberta and Saskatchewan, oil is used exclusively. It would take about six months to convert from oil to coal. In an emergency situation such as this, consideration could not be given to that action. In eastern Canada, by which I mean the central region, the same situation would obtain if we had to convert from coal to oil; it would take several months. The Canadian National had to come to a decision quickly when this emergency position developed, and in the circumstances I think it took the logical and best decision.


Gordon Graydon: If I might impose upon the minister by asking one other question, can
he tell us what proportion of the coal used by the Canadian National is mined in Canada and what proportion is mined in the United States?


Lionel Chevrier: I do not think I can answer that question accurately, other than to say that some 19 million tons of coal are produced in this country, of which some 6,500,000 tons coming from the maritime region and 5 million tons coming from the western region can be used for railway purposes In the past it has been the policy of the Canadian National Railways to get coal for the central region from United States sources, because they were closer. To haul coal all the way from Nova Scotia to western Ontario is not a profitable enterprise. But the Canadian National have tried to buy all the Canadian coal they could; and, following the policy of the government in curtailing expenditures in the United States, in the recent past they have been looking toward a greater consumption of Canadian coal.


Gordon Graydon: Perhaps the minister would give us the percentages later?


Lionel Chevrier: I shall be glad to do so.



COMBINES INVESTIGATION ACT


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Stanley Knowles (Winnipeg North Centre):: Will the Minister of Justice say how soon an announcement will be made concerning the appointment of someone to fill the post of commissioner under the Combines Investigation Act?


Hon. Stuart S. Garson (Minister of Justice):: I can give an estimate, Mr. Speaker. I would say in about one week.


EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. G. R. Pearkes (Nanaimo):: Has the
Secretary of State for External Affairs been advised of the blockade the Chinese national government claims to have established in relation to certain portions of the Pacific ocean adjacent to China? If so, have Canadian shipping interests been advised of the dangers their vessels may encounter in traversing those waters?


Hon. L. B. Pearson (Secretary of State for External Affairs):: We have been advised of that situation, and Canadian shipping companies have been informed of it.

The Address-Mr. Larson


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Gordon Graydon: In view of the interest being taken in the Far East generally, and in the Ceylon conference, can the Secretary of State for External Affairs say when he expects to be able to make a statement to the house with respect to these very important matters?


Lester Bowles Pearson: Mr. Speaker, I hope to be in a position to make a statement on this matter at an early stage in the debate on the address.



SPEECH FROM THE THRONE


[Stage Direction]
The house proceeded to the consideration of the speech delivered by His Excellency the Governor General at the opening of the session.
Mr. F. H. Larson (Kindersley):: Mr. Speaker, in the face of the ability and eloquence that are found in this house, I feel that the task which has been assigned to me this afternoon could have been placed in more capable hands. I would feel much more qualified for this task if I were able to add a few words in French. I hope the members who were born into the oldest society in this country will realize that, although I do not feel capable of using their language, I have the kindest feelings towards them. Indeed I already number many of them among my personal friends. Were it not for the fact that I number so many of the members on all sides of the house as my personal friends, I would have been extremely reluctant to accept the invitation to carry out the task now before me.
I have received several communications from people of my constituency expressing the honour they feel has been done them this day, and I ask your permission, Mr. Speaker, to say a few words on their behalf, as well as on behalf of the western part of this country which is my home.
About the turn of the century, the tide of Canadian growth was pushing steadily westward into the plains of western Canada. Our fathers and grandfathers brought their families to this immense prairie country to settle on farms and make their homes. I should say there are few countries in the world that did not make their contribution to the settlers who poured into western Canada. In direct contrast with central Canada, where

the people came mainly from two great racial stocks, British and French, the people of the plains came from many.
To live together in any degree of peace, these people were determined to understand each other; tolerance, therefore, has become the keynote of cultural development. Personal liberty and freedom are the intense desire of all. The people of Kindersley constituency are typical of this development, and tolerance to their neighbours has eliminated fear of them. They live by either farming or ranching, and those who live in the towns or villages depend on farming for their livelihood. There are several large cattle ranches. In an area in the south of the constituency, large-scale wheat farming is carried on, while in the north there is an area in which the people tend to live closer together and carry on mixed farming, much as you would find it in Ontario.
In the years of prosperity our farmers and ranchers derive a large annual income from their occupation. At this point may I say that they have asked me to tell the minister that, while they do not mind paying their fair share of the income taxes, their methods of bookkeeping are such that it is extremely difficult to keep detailed figures for years back. It would help them immeasurably if, after filing their income tax returns the department would make a final assessment within eighteen months, and, after that, consider the period closed. When a farmer plants his crops he has not the slightest idea what his eventual profit will be from that crop. Even if he tried to estimate it the day before he harvested the crop, he could still not do so with any degree of accuracy.
I believe that if a man is in a position to do so, he should attempt to keep at least one crop in storage on his farm. Then if anything happens to him, in all fairness to his family some part of these salable commodities should be considered as corpus in his estate.
When our people came to the plains, they naturally gravitated towards places which exhibited the same soil characteristics as those which were found in their homeland. Few figures on climatic conditions were available. It was like grabbing out of a hat and trusting you were right. Since that time universities and government departments have carefully tabulated these things. Cyclical theories of climate have been worked out.
From this data our government has accepted the fact that a resettlement program for many parts of the western plains is necessary. Indeed, under the direction of the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner) this

resettlement program is well under way. As I mentioned, Mr. Speaker, the large grain farm and the large ranch provide the livelihood of a number of our people. In time of war or other national emergency, our sparse population produces a tremendous surplus of food to give life to our fighting forces and hope to whole populations that have lived under the shadow of starvation. The sight of millions of acres of waving grain or luscious ranchland brings to the observer a sense of spaciousness and freedom not possible in any other place. It is a mystery to many how all this wealth can disappear and leave desolation, as happened generally twenty years ago and in some areas during the past few years.
It is all a matter of rainfall. We live continually under the threat that not quite enough rain will fall to mature our crops or support our herds of cattle. It is true that those who were fortunate enough to get heavy gumbo land or pasture land have continued to prosper on the plains with few setbacks. Many were not so fortunate; so you are asked from time to time to vote money for prairie farm assistance and prairie farm rehabilitation, in an endeavour to put everyone on a more or less equitable basis. It is the earnest hope of the Minister of Agriculture, whose policies have done so much, that as the years go on, and irrigation, reclamation and resettlement develop, such expenditures as prairie farm assistance will disappear. Then, the plains can fulfil the hopes that the governments of Sir John A. Macdonald and Sir Wilfrid Laurier envisaged when they supported plans to push railroads and settlers into the vast plains country.
It is to be regretted that the very things that make Canada great, far beyond her years, are the barriers to complete understanding and unity of our people. The beauty of our Rocky mountains is unsurpassed by any others in the world. They produce tremendous wealth in minerals, but many people never cross them to know their neighbours on the other side. In the same manner the plains are divided from central Canada by a region tremendously rich in minerals, but many westerners never cross that region to know the people in the east, as we call it. When we think of the maritimes, it is practically a different world.
While these appalling distances tend to divide Canada into virtually several countries, we must realize how much these sparsely inhabited regions contribute to our national wealth, and conscientiously make an effort to overcome the disadvantages. The present government is to be highly commended for its policies which fully recognize
The Address-Mr. Larson the nationhood of Canada, and stay strictly away from attempts to break Canada into its various components.
I feel that I may be open to criticism for not taking issue with the government on some of the matters of a more contentious nature.
I,	however, do not believe that localized matters, where there may be some hardship, should be allowed to colour the entire assessment of the general policies.
I express only my own opinion, but I believe a recent event was used as a field of trial for the policies of this federal government. My good friend, the late Paul Prince, M.L.A. for The Battlefords in Saskatchewan, passed on and I feel that there is not too great a tribute I could pay to his memory. His passing precipitated a by-election. It was apparently necessary to hold the election in the middle of a severe winter, making it a real hardship for the farmers to get to the polls. I am reluctant to rehash elections in this house, but the Liberal leader in Saskatchewan, Mr. Tucker, endeavoured to keep the campaign on a provincial basis; others, however, came in criticizing the federal government as to its agricultural marketing policies and as to all the other contentious matters that were discussed in this house last session. We had to defend those policies.
For years the seat has been evenly divided. All factors tended toward putting the federal government on a real trial. You all know the result. In spite of this the people backed up the policies of the federal government. For this reason I feel that I have no real licence to criticize too severely the policies of the federal government.
The trans-Canada highway is a huge undertaking considering the vast distance involved, and the government's determination to complete this project will do much toward unifying Canada. At this point, Mr. Speaker, I hope you will not mind my suggesting to the minister, if he has any control over the matter, that after the highway leaves Swift Current in Saskatchewan it should turn north to a point directly east of the city of Calgary; in that way the thriving city of Saskatoon would be put within easy reach of its facilities.
It is the duty of every Canadian to support his government in its endeavour to more solidly unify this vast and wonderful country. I appeal to everyone to learn all he can about other parts of Canada, even though he cannot visit them; to understand the problems which face his neighbours one or two thousand miles away; to understand their racial or religious culture and to appreciate their economic successes and difficulties.
I note with great satisfaction the gradual disappearance of the term "fight for the east"

The Address-Mr. Larson or "fight for the west" or "fight for the mari-times" or fight for some other group. The past decade has shown that our thinking on these matters has become more and more mature. I hesitate to state the causes for this gradual binding together of the Canadian people, but there are several factors which definitely enter into it.
I would say that meeting the common danger in the two great wars had a great effect on unifying the people of this country. The moving around of people both in and out of the services also contributed. Air travel has become common, and transcontinental fares have become low enough to allow many people, otherwise confined by press of business and press of affairs, to meet their business associates and friends across the country, and to get to know them.
Your government now carries all first-class mail by air if it will bring your letters to their destination any quicker. This means a tremendous saving especially to businessmen, who can now correspond where formerly they had to wire or telephone. I still feel, however, that the policies I have the privilege to support are the largest single factor. Indeed, I have the honour to move, seconded by the hon. member for Villeneuve (Mr. Dumas):
That the following address be presented to His Excellency the Governor General of Canada:
To His Excellency Field Marshal the Right Honourable the Viscount Alexander of Tunis, Knight of the Most Noble Order of the Garter, Knight Grand Cross of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath, Knight Grand Cross of the Most Distinguished Order of Saint Michael and Saint George, Companion of the Most Exalted Order of the Star of India, Companion of the Distinguished Service Order; upon whom has been conferred the decoration of the Military Cross; Governor General and Commander in Chief of Canada.
May it please Your Excellency:
We, His Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the House of Commons of Canada, in parliament assembled, beg leave to offer our humble thanks to Your Excellency for the gracious speech which Your Excellency has addressed to both houses of parliament.
I am happy to note that once again, as in the past, the policy of the government is to continue to carry out measures to unify this country. At the dominion-provincial conference no attempt was made to force the majority viewpoint on any minority. It is realized full well by the government that to attempt to force any measures through such a council without unanimous agreement would serve only to disrupt the forces of unity in this country. Only the principles which were obviously necessary and concurred in by all were established. Agreement was reached concerning the contentious point that, in any matters which concerned parliament only, the constitution could be amended by parliament 
alone. This was a great step, because there are many in this house who feel that any such move should be made only after consultation with the provincial authorities. The provincial premiers, themselves, however, have agreed that, in a general scheme of amendment, matters concerning parliament alone can be dealt with by parliament alone.
Further, it was established that in fundamental matters the consent of all the provincial authorities should be required and that in any matters, except fundamental rights, which concern parliament and all the provincial legislatures, provision should be made for amendment by an act of the parliament of Canada and acts of such majority of the legislatures and upon such additional conditions, if any, as may be decided upon.
It has now become apparent that the federal government has no intention of forcing its will on the provincial authorities. It also becomes apparent that the entire matter will not be settled at one fell swoop but rather will be a development which will take place over a period of months or even years. It appears to me that the effect will be to foster a condition of mutual trust between the provincial authorities and the federal government. If this tendency can be carried along without violent disagreement, necessary changes of even a contentious nature can be negotiated, thereby fostering within the country the spirit of unity that this government and the citizens of Canada themselves so earnestly desire.
In the broader realm of international affairs we also attempt to show the spirit of neighbourliness which is so important to world peace. With our own country showing this spirit of co-operation within itself, our representatives can go into the councils of the world confident that they can help this spirit to permeate the international councils. It is to be regretted that the United Nations is not yet the final council for settling world affairs. We earnestly pray God that mutual defence pacts within the United Nations will eventually become unnecessary. In the meantime the Atlantic pact nations are to be commended on their ability to ensure a block of peace-loving democracies strong enough to make aggression an extremely hazardous undertaking, while still being able to work within the council as a whole.
It affords a great deal of comfort to the people of Canada, indeed to North America, to know that the signatories to the North Atlantic pact are working so well together, and that plans are well advanced for the defence of this hemisphere in the event it

becomes necessary. However, with the knowledge that those whose activities tend to disrupt world peace might launch a blitz attack with a great deal of force and terror, there is the fact that they are not yet industrially strong enough to carry on a protracted war. The show of strength in the western hemisphere should deter their hand until some formula for settling international differences around the council table can be worked out.
I am a great admirer of both Great Britain and the United States; but we have the almost impossible situation of inconvertibility of our currencies. Commenting on the British position to Beland Honderich, financial editor of the Toronto Daily Star, Sir Stafford Cripps touched on this particular subject, and it appeared in the February 11 issue of that paper. I feel that his actual words portray the situation, and with your permission, Mr. Speaker, I should like to quote them:
The dollar problem is so complex and deep-rooted that no simple or easy solution can be expected. The acceptance by Canada of sterling instead of dollars in payment for some United Kingdom exports would not in itself solve the problem.
This wouldn't really solve anything. It would only defer payment. Some day you would have to tear up the sterling and forget about it or receive payment in some form or other. It is not a permanent solution. It would really be a Canadian credit given without interest.
No matter how rich and powerful the great republic of the United States may be, it cannot continue to lend or give billions to Europe for rehabilitation.
The western nations of Europe are making great strides toward economic recovery but this recovery can never be complete until currencies can be exchanged on the world markets. I am very much afraid if this is not accomplished very shortly the economic result will have a disastrous effect on the strength of the Atlantic pact. Since the United States must take the lead in this move I earnestly appeal, and I know it is with the concurrence of this government, that she make a most diligent attempt to correct this difficulty.
Speaking to the Canadian Society in New York, the Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent) made certain suggestions regarding the solution of this problem of currencies, and I cannot do better than use the words which he uttered at that time. The Prime Minister said:	*
But I do not think we can afford to lose sight of the fact that it is even more important to the economic strength of the free world that the European countries and, indeed, all countries suffering from a dollar shortage, should also be able to export as freely as possible to North American markets.
It is, after all, only by accepting imports from other continents that we in North America can
The Address-Mr. Larson hope to reduce the real cost to ourselves of our contribution to the common security of the free world.
And it is only by accepting imports that we can hope to provide stable and profitable markets outside our continent for those agricultural and other surpluses beyond our own needs which both our countries do actually produce.
Canada, in this matter also, is in a somewhat different position than the United States. Though we still export rather more than we import, our over-all exports and imports are not too far from a balance. But, as I have already said, we in Canada import from the United States far more than we export to this country, and we export to Europe far more than we import from Europe.
That is why Canada, too, has a dollar problem.
We, therefore, have a special interest in freer multilateral trade and, though I am not an economist, that seems to me to mean freer entry to this country both for European exports and for our own.
I would not venture to advocate the reduction of tariff and other trade barriers as any special favour to us. But it does seem to me that such a policy might make a tremendous contribution to the security of the free world generally and the United States in particular.
A century ago, England found herself in much the same position the United States has today. England was then the greatest industrial nation, the wealthiest nation and, therefore, the greatest potential market.
She opened that great market freely to the world and, whether as a result or merely as a coincidence, the world-herself included-enjoyed more than half a century of comparative peace and economic progress.
Might it be possible that history has there a lesson for this continent and this country at the midpoint of the twentieth century?
That is the end of the quotation. The greatest assurance of peace lies on a high level of international trade. The critics of this government say that we are losing our trade, but I believe the policies of the government will insure a high level of trade for many years. If we can, in the not too distant future, sell our food products to Britain for pounds and then pay the United States for our imports in those pounds, I see no immediate cause for worry. This may be theorizing but in my opinion the adjustment is necessary and must be made soon.
In our own defence activities the policy of keeping agriculture and industry at a high level of efficiency will ensure food and equipment in the event of emergency. It would be impossible to retain very large standing forces in Canada. Our industrial efficiency would suffer and our economic position would be impaired. However, we can train, and are training, an adequate number of men in all the services and giving them such training that if an emergency develops we shall have a good number of expert teachers who will soon be able to bring our fighting forces up to emergency requirements.
The policy of developing prototypes in aeroplanes and other equipment and keeping our factories at the ready is the only correct
30	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. Larson policy. In the second war Germany built a huge reserve of planes which were far ahead of their time, but as we developed our aviation we outdistanced them in quality and numbers. The matter of carrying a force to be ready always to withstand the shock of an attack by the aggressor and carry the attack to him is beyond the ability of a nation like Canada. But we can be thankful that our powerful partners, Britain and particularly the United States, have an industrial and economic strength to fill this vital role.
Now, Mr. Speaker, let us examine for a moment our domestic affairs forecast in the speech from the throne. If employment is kept at a high level and agricultural prices are good we have the basis for a sound internal economy.
Let us turn for a moment to the position of labour. During the war employment and wages were at an extremely high level. This winter there has been a good deal of talk of excessive unemployment. I believe that a good deal of this difficulty has come through the extremely cold and stormy winter that we have had west of the great lakes. Also the war drew many men from agriculture into industry. There is talk of unemployment in the larger centres but I find farmers having a hard time to get good men to do farm work.
I also know that many farm buildings and homes in small centres are going unpainted because of lack of men to do the job. Carpenters, plumbers and men in all such trades are difficult to get in the smaller centres.
I am glad to hear that a measure will be brought before parliament to extend the benefits of unemployment insurance. However, I feel that a move of a good deal of labour from the cities to the smaller centres would add security to those individuals and greatly minimize the hardship they may suffer.
In the history of the industrial revolution are many instances of management exploiting labour, and the trade union movement was forced on labour. The result of this movement has been that people who sell their skills have reached the position where they can now walk in the same dignity and the same pride as the richest men in the country. This adds immeasurably to the unification of the nation, because there is nothing quite so disrupting as a large dissatisfied group within a nation. I must sound a warning here: -trade unions are becoming so powerful that they can disrupt the whole economy if they choose to do so, as evidenced by the coal strike in the United States.
I feel that the leaders of these great movements would do invaluable service to the country if they realized that, through their


efforts, they had put labour on an equal footing with anyone in the country, and that there is no longer a struggle for equity. Their position, should now be that of statesmen with the welfare of the entire nation their responsibility. I find it hard to believe that the coal strike in the middle of winter, bringing with it such hardship, was necessary to the welfare of the miners.
In the matter of public health, so vital to the nation, measures are being introduced for the further benefit of all. I strongly urge that, with the greatest possible dispatch, the matter of old age and other pensions be incorporated into an over-all social security scheme.
Veterans' legislation is to be expanded. As a veteran myself, I feel that the treatment of world war II veterans will stand as a monument to the fair-mindedness of the Canadian people in accepting the increased taxes necessary to carry out those great veteran rehabilitation plans.
I do not wish to bore you, Mr. Speaker, by endeavouring to go into every single detail of His Excellency's most gracious speech. I feel that, to the best of my ability, I have covered, in all phases, most of the principles involved, with the exception of agriculture.
I should- like to conclude by speaking briefly on this subject. The entire Canadian economy is perhaps affected more by the economic position of our farmers than by any other single class of people. The downward adjustment in prices of agricultural products, which was not unexpected, has been cushioned by government support, to take up seasonal surpluses. This has the effect of giving adequate prices to the producer when his crops come on the market, and protects the consumer in the cities against prohibitive prices when products are out of season. He can still buy them, ra-ther than leave them on the shelves of a merchant's store.
With reference to wheat, which is our major agricultural export commodity, different methods must be used. We have had a large portion of our wheat under contract direct to Britain. In some ways this method is good, but the idea of a world food pool, out of which importing countries can draw, is probably a more equitable way of distributing food to the world.
It should be noted that, even at -the-price of $2f a bushel, wheat is still the cheapest food people can eat; but at whatever level this commodity is traded, I can safely say that what -the wheat producers desire most is an orderly, steady market for a large portion of our crop. I do not believe that agriculture, organized or unorganized, will ever be satisfied with an uncontrolled open market. We have developed a good market for our cattle

and meat products; and with this industry on such a stable basis I believe it will continue to grow and to develop.
The Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act has taken many of the hazards out of mixed farming by providing farmers with technical help, and has shared the expense of providing water supplies. The community pasture program, linked with resettlement, has stabilized the economy of many communities. I urge strongly that the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act be expanded so that no one will be trying to grow wheat on ranch land. Irrigation is the answer, and I sincerely hope that in the near future all Canada will be receiving benefits from this program of irrigation and reclamation. The maritime marshland reclamation project, as well as that in British Columbia, give definite evidence that the government is behind the move of the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner) in his great undertaking to make most efficient use of those three vital factors in an agricultural economy-people, land and water. I do not believe any department which could be set up to carry out this work could combine as effectively these three vital factors as could the Department of Agriculture.
It is evident from the deliberations of various organizations which have held conferences since the last session of parliament, including the dominion-provincial conference, that that conference as well as the farm organizations feel that the government is doing all within the power of any government to keep our economy, both internal and external, at a high level.
There is evidence that agreement will be reached among the provinces and the federal government on matters affecting constitutional changes. As a nation we are more united than we have ever been in the past. In the light of these accomplishments, and future proposals, and with the knowledge that the Canadian people have confidence in His Majesty's ministers, I take great pleasure in moving the address.
(Translation):


Mr. Armand Dumas (Villeneuve):: Mr. Speaker, it is with deep emotion and a justifiable feeling of apprehension that I rise in this house to discharge the honourable but delicate duty entrusted to me. Needless to say I expected to experience those feelings, which are probably common to all who make their maiden speech in this house. Nevertheless I felt duty bound to accept this mark of confidence and to seize this opportunity of speaking on behalf of my constituents. I am
The Address-Mr. Dumas
convinced the house will not deny me its usual forbearance towards beginners.
I am very happy to second the address in reply to the speech of His Excellency the Governor General to both houses of parliament on the occasion of the opening of the second session of the twenty-first parliament. I am pleased to do so because the honour bestowed upon me is reflected on the population of the district of Villeneuve, which I represent here. This honour is well deserved by the pioneers of northwestern Quebec, whether they be settlers, farmers, forest workers, prospectors or miners. The land surveyors' guild and the association of forestry engineers, both professional groups to which I belong, also feel honoured. On behalf of all of them, I wish to express my sincere thanks to the Prime Minister and the members of his cabinet.
(Text):
My first duty, Mr. Speaker, is to extend to you my salutations and to pay you my respects. Throughout the last session you presided over the debates of this house with great dignity and impartiality, and hon. members are pleased to see you once more in the chair, because they know they can rely on your kind disposition and the manner in which you will exercise your authority.
I should like to add a personal word to the tributes that have been paid to our late colleague, T. L. Church. The confidence which his electors showed in sending him steadily to this house for a quarter of a century is the best evidence there could be of the esteem in which he was held by all. Tommy Church was a model for us all. He was a hard worker; he knew what he wanted, and he wanted what he knew. His memory will remain for ever with us.
The time has now come to congratulate the hon. member for Kindersley (Mr. Larson) upon the brilliant way in which he has moved the address. His substantial expose brings to our minds the golden and nourishing crops of his province, and the logic of his argument suggests the iridescent symphony of wheat fields undulating in the breeze.
There is now missing from this house a familiar personality whose memory I should like to evoke. Hon. Colin Gibson served brilliantly as Minister of National Revenue, Minister of National Defence for Air Services, Secretary of State, and Minister of Mines and Resources. It was in his last capacity that I had the privilege of knowing him well, when during last fall I accompanied him on a tour of the mining establishments located in my constituency. In his new position as
32	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. Dumas justice of the Supreme Court of Ontario Mr. Gibson will honour the judiciary as he honoured this house.
To the hon. member for Grey-Bruce (Mr. Harris) I extend my congratulations upon his becoming a member of the cabinet. There are no doubts in the minds of those who have known him that he will be competent and successful as Minister of Citizenship and Immigration.
(Translation):
On January 10 last, the intergovernmental conference called for the purpose of considering a procedure to amend the constitution opened in this chamber. We all know the importance of that conference and the significance of the decisions taken. The earnestness and discretion shown by the press from the Atlantic to the Pacific in discussing the problems involved is adequate evidence of the concern of the Canadian population and of the common desire to reach a fair and equitable solution. The very future of Canadian sovereignty is at stake.
I am glad to recall the great courtesy and the remarkable political insight shown by the Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent) in directing those proceedings. I would like also to recall how fully co-operative were all our provincial premiers, especially those of my own province, of Ontario and of Nova Scotia. The Canadian people have been pleased with the initial results of the conference. There is no doubt that the intergovernmental committee which was set up to continue its work will carry on with the same concern for harmony, and seek to achieve unity in Canada through respect for the rights of all Canadians. May God assist its members in their endeavours and bless their work.
We hope to witness in the near future the birth of the Canada charter, a model of fairness and justice. May it be flexible enough to guarantee the rights of all the provinces as well as those of the two great races which make up the whole country, while at the same time providing the federal government with the necessary powers to look after the interests of a united Canada, of a Canada whose wealth is a guarantee of strength.
The electoral district of Villeneuve, which I have the privilege to represent, has been named after an illustrious and holy prelate and a great Canadian. It was created during the last parliament by dividing the old district of Pontiac. It is located in the northwest part of the province of Quebec. The people there are engaged in farming, lumber-


ing and mining. Half rural and half urban, Villeneuve county is proud of having, in the order of their foundation, such cities as Rouyn, Noranda, Val d'Or, Bourlamaque, Malartic, Duparquet and Cadillac. The oldest are not twenty-five years old. I could also mention mining villages like Sullivan, Perron and others. Farm settlements are rapidly being replaced by fine, fully organized parishes. A few years hence, Villeneuve county will, from an agricultural standpoint, compare favourably with any other area in Canada.
I would be remiss in my duty, Mr. Speaker, if I failed to praise before the house the courageous people of my constituency for the splendid way in which they have developed, in record time and often under difficult conditions, the vast resources which Providence has bestowed upon the county of Villeneuve. The settlers and prospectors of my constituency, who daily add to our national heritage, show the same courage and perseverance as our pioneering forefathers and the same initiative and endurance as the coureurs de bois who discovered and channelled our wealth.
Because it is not yet fully homogeneous, because it daily faces the problems inseparable from the development of a new country where everything awaits to be done and where the slightest deficiency may prove fatal, because it lacks the security afforded by long standing assets, the population of my constituency, though very industrious, can better than any other appreciate the benefits that stem from social legislation initiated by liberal governments. My -constituents warmly cheer the throne speech proposals to widen the scope of previous enactments.
To mention only housing legislation, for instance, the cities of Rouyn and Val d'Or have, already, to a great extent availed themselves of opportunities offered to them, while the town of Malartic proposes to do likewise within a few months. May rural centres and farming communities soon have their turn!
Though most people in Villeneuve county are of French-speaking origin, a considerable number of them are of British descent. In addition there are in our cities several new Canadians and citizens of tomorrow. Let me proclaim to the country at large the friendly relationship that prevails among us. It is not a feeling based on sentiment, on elegant phrases and platonic wishes but on a practical sense of mutual respect, active cooperation and brotherly help. At Malartic for instance, where I live, and elsewhere in the county, people can sing:	"Vive la Cana-

dienne, et ses jolis yeux doux" and follow up at once with "Oh ye'll take the high road, and I'll take the low road". I can assure you that anyone interested, no matter what his racial origin, can understand, the difference being that, as opposed to the lyrics of the song, the tryst is always kept.
Thanks to federal grants, the towns of Rouyn and Val d'Or now have municipal airports which allow quick transit to Montreal from our district. This service, which is provided by the Canadian Pacific Air Lines, is popular and necessary. However, to be as useful as they should be, these two airports require many improvements. Founded only a few years ago, the towns of Rouyn and Val d'Or have had to meet heavy obligations in order to provide their people with proper municipal services; they may, therefore, be unable to maintain those fields and improve them as they should be.
A look at the map of Canada, Mr. Speaker, will show us that, as the crow flies, Rouyn and Val d'Or lie along the air route which joins the great military base at Fort Churchill to the eastern centres of Quebec, Montreal, Toronto or Ottawa. The Department of National Defence would be well advised to develop those two airports, Rouyn and Val d'Or and convert them into advance bases for the protection of the industrial centres of eastern Canada.
If the county of Villeneuve is part of northwestern Quebec, it is also fully comprised in that vast natural area known as the Canadian shield, and partakes of its economy. That V-shaped region surrounding Hudson bay takes up half of the Canadian territory. It includes part of the province of Newfoundland in the east, covers four-fifths of the provinces of Quebec and Ontario, the greater part of Manitoba, the northern sections of Saskatchewan and Alberta and loses itself in the Northwest Territories, at the mouth of the Mackenzie river.
Before the twentieth century it was said of that area, then a wilderness and an essentially Canadian region if there is one, that it divided Canada. As a matter of fact, the railways hastened to cross it to create an artificial link between the east and the west of Canada. The industrial development of Canada, which started with the first great war, has changed the economy of that region.
First of all, in Ontario, silver was discovered at Cobalt, then nickel at Sudbury, and gold at Timmins and Kirkland Lake. Then came
The Address-Mr. Dumas the tremendous discoveries of copper, gold and zinc at Noranda, Malartic and Val d'Or, and the discovery of gold at Red Lake in Ontario, of iron at lake Superior, of gold and copper at Snow lake, at Flin Flon on the border between Manitoba and Saskatchewan, and finally at Yellowknife in the Northwest Territories. These were followed by the discovery of uranium deposits, which are allimportant for our country, and quite recently by the discovery of iron ore and titanium in New Quebec and Labrador. The Canadian shield, formerly so underestimated because its value was unknown, is now the arsenal of Canada and supplies the raw material of our industry in times of war or of peace.
The fabulous Mesabi iron mines in Minnesota gave rise to the great American industry. Economists already agree that New Quebec and Labrador will do the same for Canada and eventually for the whole of North America. Although not easily accessible these ore reserves would be easy to work. Already the preliminary work has been completed in order to build a railroad of more than 350 miles.
Within a few years, the St. Lawrence will see many ships carrying this ore to central Canada and when the deepening of this great waterway is completed, it will be due to the mining contribution of New Quebec. The tremendous amount of water power available allows us to foresee the day when electrical blast furnaces will be built and the ore smelted locally. At Sorel, in the Richelieu valley, such blast furnaces are being set up and titanium-bearing iron ore from lake Allard will be smelted there.
Spectacular though they be, those discoveries are but a beginning. To mention an example, the county of Villeneuve has been open to prospecting for twenty-five years but it was only in 1947 that the extent of the copper-bearing deposits of the East Sullivan Mines, Limited, near Val d'Or, was established. It is essential that prospecting be continued and any measure intended to facilitate prospecting will increase potential mining production.
While this district is rich in native goldbearing minerals, it is also covered by an evergreen forest which supplies most of our pulp and paper industries and provides lumber for local use and exportation purposes.
The forest resources of the Canadian shield are to be found for the time being in
34	HOUSE OF
The Address-Mr. Dumas its southernmost part, that is, in the provinces of Quebec and Ontario. Thus that wealth benefits Villeneuve county.
Agriculture gradually becomes a basic industry in that part of the Canadian shield. In the northwest area of Quebec and the northeast area of Ontario, for hundreds of miles the soil is covered with a thick layer of clay. In Chapleau county, on the northern border of the district of Villeneuve, the first farming establishments were founded only forty years ago. From Hearst in Ontario to Senneterre in Quebec, the rural parishes are always increasing in number.
(Text) :
It is generally true to state, Mr. Speaker, that the search for gold and the resulting mining industry have attracted the attention of the other regions of our country to the marvellous riches of the Canadian shield. During the war, circumstances beyond our control, arising from the general state of the world's economy rather than from the Canadian economy, caused our gold industry to decline considerably and even threaten to disappear for a time. Happily, however, the Canadian government recognized the importance of the industry in our national development and instituted pioneer measures in the new regions, coming to the rescue with emergency assistance to the gold mining industry. After this beginning the government increased the efficiency and duration of its benefits, and it is owing to this measure that many mines in my constituency have been able to carry on their operations. It is owing to this measure that thousands of miners in my constituency have been able to continue to earn an honourable living, and many of our veterans to build up promising futures for themselves.
My constituents have been pleased to learn of the creation of a separate Department of Mines and Technical Surveys. Is this not an assurance that the government of Canada will pay increasing attention to the mining problem, and will bring about improvements in the salutary measures it has instituted? I take this opportunity to congratulate the hon. member for Renfrew South (Mr. McCann) upon his appointment as head of this important department. He is already familiar with mining problems. I am sure that he will know how to present to the Minister of National Revenue (Mr. McCann)

the difficulties of the mining industry, and that the latter will not fail to listen to his suggestions.
(Translation):
In the county of Villeneuve, the development of agriculture depends on the mining industry, whose financial contribution enables the settler to live through the difficult years when he has to work on virgin soil which will bear fruits only after years of unceasing labour. The settler finds in the mining centres a ready market for his garden produce. The mining enterprises purchase his lumber and provide work for him during the dull season. And so, gradually, the settlement lot becomes a prosperous farm, and the settler, a prosperous farmer. In turn he will help the mining centres to survive, and the mines may then disappear. They will have played their part in our economy. A stable population will remain and there will not be that sorry sight of deserted towns.
That clay belt of the Canadian shield which runs through northwest Quebec as well as through the northeastern constituencies of Ontario is eminently suited to production of fodder plants and consequently to stock farming, either for meat or dairy products. Before very long, a more rational distribution of our farming industry will bring about specialization in market-gardening and small-scale farming in the lowlands of the St. Lawrence valley, while our district will devote itself to large-scale farming and supply eastern Canada. I hope to see more and more model farms in order that their example may help to transform our farming industry. Our people will also welcome any steps taken by the government to increase the number of abattoirs, cold storage plants and centres for the grading of agricultural products.
Finally, so that the farming industry may fulfil expectations, let us hope that a program of drainage will be undertaken with the co-operation of both provincial and dominion governments in the whole preCambrian clay belt, which lies at the height of land. In addition to improving arable land, it would help reforestation and development of large marshlands which are now absolutely useless.
This brings me to a brief discussion of forest management. In 1948, Bishop Labrie wrote:
"There will come a day when mines have yielded their last, but forests will keep on growing bigger and better trees if we take the trouble of caring for them and of managing them intelligently and with foresight."

How true and how timely were his words. Like other mining and colonization settlements, the constituency of Villeneuve has been cleared of far too many trees. Though crown forest lands come under the jurisdiction of the provinces, as a forestry engineer highly devoted to our forests I urge the government of Canada to help them more and more in conserving and protecting our forests without, however, interfering with provincial autonomy. Our people need to be educated in the management, protection and conservation of forests through reforestation.
May I be permitted to draw the attention of the house to the magnificent work carried out in this field by the Association Forestiere Quebecoise, by the Canadian Forestry Association and by other provincial groups affiliated with the latter. If the interest shown by the Canadian public in regard to forestry matters has constantly increased in the last few years, it is due to a great extent to the policies of these various associations. The remarkable Canada Forestry Act passed at the last session makes for closer cooperation between the state and these forestry organizations, and all those who have the conservation of our forestry resources at heart welcome this measure.
The Canadian shield, but recently a desert region, is being rapidly populated and developed. Not only does it provide the whole of Canada with metals, lumber and timber, farm products and furs, but its growing population, its purchasing power, its needs stimulate the manufacturing industries of our cities.
As can readily be ascertained by a look at an up-to-date map, the economic face of the Canadian shield is undergoing a complete change. Wherever a means of access has been opened into that part of the country, we have witnessed a shift of population. I shall only refer to the Hudson Bay railway in Manitoba, to the Northern Ontario railway which goes from North Bay to James Bay, to the Senneterre-Noranda line which traverses my constituency and that of Chapleau, as well as to the mining and agricultural communities whose establishment was made possible through the building of those railways. There are many more districts still waiting for the railways and modern highways which will allow them to play a leading part in our economic life.
I am thinking now of the Megiscane valley, of the Bell river basin, of the great Matta-55946-31
The Address-Mr. Dumas garni lake basin, of the Bachelor lake and Chibougamau regions, of the northern part of the constituency of Chapleau, which I know particulary well. There are in those districts productive lands where thousands of Canadians could settle, virgin forests and mines which should be developed without further delay.
Last year, the Canadian National Railways opened a new line of approximately forty miles from Barraute to Beattyville. Already five or six settlements have been opened because of that trunk line. I firmly hope that this new railroad will soon be extended to Chibougamau in order to connect eventually with the lake St. John system. If the Canadian government undertakes public works, I do not know of any that could be more useful than those aimed at the development of our natural resources. Not only would this give work to those who need it, but new sources of employment would thus be created.
When modern civilization reaches all those new areas, the economy of our country will be entirely changed. The Canadian shield which now divides the natural regions of Canada will become a link and will direct our economy in an easterly-westerly direction which will counteract the present northerly-southerly trend; this will extend the frontiers of Canada while fostering a greater measure of unity. In the economic and social fields, and even in the political sphere, the results of such unification will become a decisive factor in our country's future.
I do not wish to take undue advantage of the indulgence of this house, but I should not like to conclude without recalling that for the great majority of the people of the constituency of Villeneuve and for a considerable part of the people of Canada, 1950 is a holy year. May the whole world soon realize that our civilization will survive only if it puts into practice the teachings of the Sermon on the Mount. While protecting ourselves against the forces of evil and the communist virus, let us hope, for our common honour, that 1950 will recall to our children and great-grandchildren not the universal hatred and destruction' that could be spread by the super-bomb but the defensive union of the north Atlantic democratic countries intent upon maintaining world peace. As far as our people are concerned, the year 1950 will remind them of the signing of a charter which will really

The Address-Mr. Dumas be the acknowledgment of an enduring national fellowship and mark the advent of the Canadian nation. Such appreciation from future generations will be our best memorial.
(Text):
On motion of Mr. Drew the debate was adjourned.



BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

Louis Stephen St-Laurent: the adjournment of the house.
He said:	The business on Monday will be
the continuation of this debate.
Motion agreed to and the house adjourned at 4.45 p.m.

Monday, February 20, 1950


Some hon. Members:: Explain.