1949-03-09

PRIVILEGE


Mr. John R. MacNicol (Davenpori):: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a question of privilege, though I am happy to say I seldom have to do so. In last evening's Toronto Star I read an article headed, "Say M.P. in hospital but don't tell him". It refers to a rumour that apparently was circulated both here and in Toronto to the effect that I was ill. I have not been ill in forty to fifty years, though I did have a cold about ten days ago. I am not criticizing the Star for referring to a rumour, but the last part of this article reads:
Today there was a new report: Mr. MacNicol had been rushed to the hospital.
If the House of Commons is looked upon as a hospital-for I rush here daily-that statement is true; but I am happy to say I have never felt better.



ORDERS IN COUNCIL


[Stage Direction]
On the order for motions:
Right Hon. L. S. Si. Laurent (Prime Minister):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to table returns to orders passed on February 24 and March 7 on questions asked by the hon. member for Lake Centre (Mr. Diefenbaker) in respect to orders in council. The question of February 24 was:
How many orders in council passed since July 1, 1948, as at the 18th of February, 1949, were not (a) tabled; (b) published in the Canada Gazette?
The answer is: There were 7,005 orders in council passed between July 1, 1948, and February 18, 1949-including 4,215 minutes of treasury board-of which 6,777 were not tabled and 6,728 were not published in the Canada Gazette.
The second order passed on March 7 read:
1.	How many orders in council were passed between (a) September 1, 1939, and September 1, 1945; (b) September 1, 1945, and date hereof?
2.	Of these orders in council, how many were passed under the provisions of the (a) War Measures
Vet; (b) the several emergency powers acts?
The answer is:
1.	Between September 1, 1939, and September 1, 1945, there were 55,559 orders in council; treasury boards (464) containing minutes totaling 34,988, making a grand total of 90,547.
Between September 1, 1945, and March 4, 1949, there were 19,098 orders in council; treasury boards (245) containing minutes totaling 35,737, or a grand total of 54,835.
2.	Orders in council referred to in 1 (a) and (b) passed under (a) the War Measures Act, 3,332; (b) (i) the National Emergency Transitional Powers Act, 1945, 397; (ii) the Continuation of Transitional Measures Act, 1947, 21.
As promised in the house I am also tabling a descriptive list of the first hundred orders in council and minutes of treasury board passed since the beginning of the period mentioned in the hon. member's question. This list will indicate whether or not these orders in council and treasury board minutes have been tabled or gazetted or both. I am also tabling a summary of the first hundred orders in council and treasury board minutes passed since January 1, 1949. Taken together I think those two lists constitute a good cross-section of the various questions dealt with by order in council and treasury board minutes during the course of a year.
I think perhaps for the better information of hon. members it might be convenient to have these lists published as an appendix to Hansard of today, and if I have the consent of the house I would ask that this be done.


Some hon. Members:: Agreed.
(For summary referred to, see Appendix, page 1317).


Mr.   SI Laurenl@: In order, however, that the answers given in the past, and particularly the returns I have just tabled, may not prove to be misleading, I should like to avail myself of this opportunity to review briefly the procedure followed in the tabling and gazetting of orders in council, so that if this procedure is not satisfactory to the house it may be criticized and that criticism taken into consideration. In this matter, as in many others related to the business of government, the practice followed in Canada has been patterned very largely on United Kingdom constitutional procedures.


Mr. J. G. Diefenbaker (Lake Centre):: In
view of the lengthy and complete statement by the Prime Minister, may I, sir, with your leave and the leave of the house, direct his attention to one thing. As I understand it, in Great Britain a committee of the House of Commons has been given the responsibility of reviewing all orders in council as they are passed, for the purpose of bringing before the house any cases of invasion of rights or suspension of statutes by order in council. I was wondering whether the Prime Minister would consider the tabling of orders in council that are passed while parliament is in session. The members are in a very difficult position because legislative acts are performed under certain orders in council the tabling of which is not considered necessary. In view of the

attitude the Prime Minister has shown, and his desire to be of assistance to the house, would he agree to have these orders in council laid on the table of the house, having regard to the fact there is such a large number of them? It would be neither expensive nor difficult to do it. Hon. members would then know, as they advised their constituents, what the law or the practice is in respect to the various matters dealt with by order in council.


Louis Stephen St-Laurent: If the hon. member will look at the two lists I have produced, he will perhaps come to the conclusion that it would be quite as convenient to have tabled monthly a full list of the orders in council of the preceding month, with the same kind of indications as are given in these lists. Then if in that list there was anything in which any hon. member was interested, he could ask to have the order in council tabled. But as about ninety per cent of the orders in council or minutes of the treasury board are merely administrative acts, I think it would be useless to table all of them and thus increase the store of parliamentary documents that the clerks of the house are obliged to take care of and keep for a long time after they have been tabled. Perhaps the matter could be referred to again. We want to make as full disclosure as will be of any use to anybody; but perhaps the hon. member will find that if he gets that kind of a list monthly he will have in it sufficient information to ask for any orders that were not already tabled and that might be of interest.



FISHERIES


Hon. Robert W. Mayhew (Minister of Fisheries):: I wish to make an announcement to the house about a serious situation which has developed in the inland fisheries of the prairie provinces, particularly Manitoba, and the action the government has authorized the fisheries prices support board to take to alleviate the problem.
Members will be aware that winter fishing operations in these northern lakes are carried on by fishermen taking the fish through the ice. The fish is frozen and stored at the lake under natural conditions until it is moved to market. Normally this movement to market takes care of all the fish before the spring breakup. This winter, largely because of the abnormal weather conditions and some softening of the export market, the Winnipeg trade has not been prepared to handle all the fish, and substantial quantities remain on the Ash-
Fisheries
ing grounds and at the railheads. This Ash must be moved immediately into refrigerated storage in Winnipeg to avoid spoilage.
Of the 2,800 Ashermen in Manitoba, many have suffered a serious decline in their incomes from this operation. This potential loss of food and the plight of the Ashermen was brought to the attention of the government through the Asheries prices support board by representatives of the Ashermen and the Ashing industry in Manitoba and the government of Manitoba which administers the Asheries of that province. The government has investigated and considered the problem and has authorized the board to stand ready to purchase such quantities of Ash as remain in Ashermen's hands or which are held on consignment by the Ash trade on behalf of the Ashermen.
The board has been authorized to offer to purchase the following species of Ash at speci-Aed prices, these being the species reported in Ashermen's hands and in danger of spoilage. The prices are on Winnipeg basis including freight and other handling charges, and are approximately eighty per cent of those which have been paid to date this year: whiteAsh, round, 13 cents per pound; saugers, round, 10 cents per pound; pike, (jacks), round, 6J cents per pound; pike (jacks), headless, 8| cents per pound; pickerel (yellows), round, 14 cents per pound; trout, round, 14 cents per pound; tullibee, round, 43,- cents per pound. The prices which the Ashermen may expect under this arrangement will be these prices less appropriate deductions for freight.
The board is immediately taking steps to set up the necessary machinery for handling this Ash, and will be making further announcements in this regard within the next day or two.


Mr. Coldwell:: If the conditions are the same, will the same policy apply to Alberta and Saskatchewan?


Robert Wellington Mayhew: We know that some Saskatchewan Ash are in long supply, and they are included in this measure.


Mr. Cruickshank:: The hon. member for Lake Centre having made an excellent political speech, may I now ask a question?


Some hon. Members:: Oh, oh.


Mr. Graydon:: The hon. member did not hear the Prime Minister.


Mr. Speaker:: Order.


George Alexander Cruickshank: Those remarks from the opposite side will never bother me. I wish to direct a question to my own minister from

Questions
British Columbia. Will the same consideration be given to the berry growers as has been given to the Manitoba fishermen? I should like an answer to the question.


Robert Wellington Mayhew: I suggest that the hon. member for Fraser Valley direct his question to the Department of Agriculture.


George Alexander Cruickshank: I have done that every day, Mr. Speaker.



QUESTIONS

[Stage Direction]
(Questions answered orally are indicated by an asterisk).

Mr. McKay:: 1.	How much money has been realized by the sale of government property by the War Assets Corporation since its inception?
2.	What did these properties cost the Canadian government either by construction or purchase?
3.	Having no regard for depreciation, what loss was suffered by the government on these sales?


Mr. Mcllraifh:: 1.	Gross sales of Canadian government property by War Assets Corporation since its inception to February 28, 1949, amount to $454,894,247.65.
2.	The cost to the Canadian government of assets declared to War Assets Corporation is not recorded by the corporation.
3.	See answer to No. 2.


NATIONAL HEALTH
Mr. Coldwell:: 1.	What is the total cost per additional bed for each hospital listed on page 83S of Hansard of February 23, 1949?
2.	How much per additional bed will be paid by the dominion towards the construction of each of the hospitals listed on page 836 of Hansard of February 23, 1949?


Mr. Marlin:: 1.	See table below. The wide variation in estimated costs is due to the fact that they cover many different types of construction, ranging from simple conversion of existing buildings to construction from the ground up of the latest type of hospital complete with facilities for the treatment of all diseases.
2.	See table below. In no case will the federal grant exceed $1,000 per active treatment bed project, or $1,500 per chronic or convalescent bed. The wide variation in the estimated federal grants shown in the attached table is explained as follows:
(a)	Amounts less than $1,000 represent federal assistance toward active treatment bed projects which were under construction on April 1, 1948.
(b)	Amounts of $1,000 represent federal assistance toward active treatment bed

projects which were not under construction on April 1, 1948.
(c)	Amounts over $1,000 represent federal assistance toward chronic or convalescent bed projects which were under construction on April 1, 1948.
Average total cost, per additional bed and
average federal grant per additional bed
for hospitals listed in	i Hansard	ofFebruary 23, 1949,	page 836	2.1. Approximate cost as	estimated	Estimatedby hospital	federalHospital	body	grant*$ per bed	$ per bedPrince Edward Island	Beach Grove 	1,205	344Nova Scotia	Eastern Shore Memorial.	5,860	654Queen's	6,005	1,000Lunenburg 	6,457	1,000Twin Oaks Memorial . .	5,494	1,000Guysboro Memorial ....	6,429	1,000Quebec	Hopital Lafleche 	11,553	889Hopital Ste. Marie 	14,595	550St. Joseph des Conva-	lescente 	5,631	1,447St. Joseph Sanatorium. .	10,865	1,251Hotel Dieu de Mont-	magny 	9,475	1,000Sanatorium Cooke 	13,865	716Sanatorium Begin	10,667	689St. Eusebe 	10,393	467Sanatorium de Macamic	14,865	1,388St. Croix 	10,965	841Hotel Dieu Notre Dame	de Beauce	6,704	983Sanatorium St. Georges.	11,409	834Saint-Sauveur 	17,008	836Notre Dame de Lourdes	de Blanc Sablon	10,739	729Youville	15,039	207Ontario	Sudbury General 	8,893	1,000West Lincoln Memorial.	5,250	1,000Hamilton General	5,918	1,000St. Peters Infirmary ....	2,556	852Leamington District	Memorial	7,895	1,000Cobourg General 	1,250	417St. Joseph's General....	7,923	1,000Manitoba	Killarney General 	3,680	173Gilbert Plains 	4,167	1,000Steinbach General-	2,941	1,000Saskatchewan	Assiniboia General ....	3,495	666
*When construction is completed and actual cost is known, the amount of the federal grant will have to be revised in certain instances.

Average total cost, per additional bed and average federal grant per additional bed for hospitals listed in Hansard of Feb. 23, 1949, page 836-Cone.
l.	2.
Approximate cost as
estimated Estimated
by hospital		federal
Hospital	body $ per bed	grant* $ per bedAlberta, Vulcan Municipal	5,659	1,000Olds Municipal 	5,417	1,000Three Hills Municipal..	5,017	326British Columbia Provincial Mental 	2,628	876Royal Columbian 	8,466	745Vernon Jubilee 	4,901	984Langley Memorial 	5,059	729St. George's hospital ...	3,409	641Fernie Memorial	7,562	1,000North Vancouver General hospital 	2,000	667Princeton General hospital 	2,595	865Alberta Stettler Municipal hospital 	5,193	1,000Rimbey Municipal hospital 	6,740	610Manitoba Benito hospital 	6,667	1,000Boissevain hospital ....	6,444	305Altona hospital 	7,252	368Carberry hospital (Fox Memorial)	5,300	1,000Cartwright and District Medical Nursing Unit	5,407	1,000Fisher Branch Outpost hospital 	4,729	1,000Ontario Haldimand War Memorial hospital 	6,522	1,000Trenton Memorial hospital 	9,402	862Alexandria hospital ....	5,951	1,000Oakville Trafalgar Memorial hospital 	6,800	1,000Oshawa General hospital	2,896	264Cornwall General hospital 	7,168	743Quebec L'Hotel-Dieu d'Amos ...	10,665	878Hopital de la Providence	5,126	1,000L'lnstitut Medico-Peda-gogique du Mont Providence 	5,881	1,181Nova Scotia Victoria County Memorial hospital ...	2,983	499
*When construction is completed and actual cost is known, the amount of the federal grant will have to be revised in certain instances.
9, 1949	1295
Questions
RADAR EQUIPMENT Mr. Pearkes:
1.	How many radar sets 268 have been built by Canadian arsenals?
2.	How many of these have been supplied to the different departments of the Canadian government?
3.	How many have been installed, or are being installed in Canada for harbour protection?
4.	In what Canadian harbours, if any, are they being placed?
5.	How many of these radar sets have been sold to Canadian shipping firms?
6.	To what foreign countries, if any, have these sets been sold?


Mr. Mcllraiih:: 1. None. The basic sets were built during the war and, to date, 317 have been extensively modified and completely modernized by Canadian Arsenals Limited.
2.	Department of Fisheries, 1; Department of Mines and Resources, 3; Department of Transport, 5; National Research Council, 7; R.C.M.P., 4; Department of National Defence -Navy, 5; Army, 1; R.C.A.F., 8; Defence Research Board, 2; Canadian National Railways Company, 3; Canadian National Steamships, 3.
3 and 4. The Department of Transport and the national research council have co-operated in the experimental installation of two modified Type 26H sets for harbour protection; one at Camperdown, Nova Scotia, overlooking the outer Halifax harbour, and the other on the Lions Gate bridge in Vancouver, B.C. The performance of both installations is being studied carefully to determine their value to marine shipping and what modifications, if any, are desirable.
5.	Five have been sold and 215 supplied on a rental basis.
6.	Denmark, 3; Sweden, 46 (of which 16 have been delivered); Netherlands, 1; Norway, 1; United States, 1.



NATIONAL FILM BOARD


Mr. Fraser:: 1.	What documentary motion pictures of foreign lands have been produced by or for the national film board during the last eight years?
2.	What are the names of each of these pictures; in what country was each taken and in what year?


Mr. Mcllraiih:: Stand.


Mr. Fraser:: I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Reconstruction and Supply or his parliamentary assistant. This question which has been called "stand" has been on the order paper since the middle of last month, and I should like an answer as soon as possible. Am I not getting an answer because of the poor management of the national film board?

Questions


George James McIlraith: The Minister of Reconstruction and Supply has no parliamentary assistant. On his return I shall direct his attention to the remarks of the hon. member.



FRUIT-EXPERIMENTAL SUBSTATION IN SALMON ARM-SORRENTO, B.C., AREA

Mr. Fulton:: 1.	Has the Minister or the Department of Agriculture received any representation from the B.C. Fruit Growers' Association for the establishment of an experimental substation in the Salmon Arm-Sorrento area for fruit?
2.	If so, is any action being taken to meet the request?
3.	If none is being taken, why not?


Mr. McCubbin:: 1.	Yes.
2	and 3. The matter is under consideration.



WHEAT PRICES

Mr. Fair:: What was the average price of No. 1 northern class II wheat in each of the crop years, 1946-47, 1947-48, and the first six months of the 1948-49 crop year?


George James McIlraith: 1946-	47: $2.43 per bushel basis No. 1 northern wheat in store Fort William, Port Arthur or Vancouver.
1947-	48: $2.88 per bushel basis No. 1 northern wheat in store Fort William, Port Arthur or Vancouver.
1948-	49: The monthly simple daily average of quoted class II prices is:-
August-$2.42 September-$2.37 October-$2.35 November-$2.42 December-$2.41 January-$2.33 February-$2.25
These prices are not related to sales.



EXCESS PROFITS TAX-AMOUNTS COLLECTED

Mr. Williams:: What sum of money did the government collect in excess profits tax during the years it was in effect, year by year and the aggregate?


Mr. McCann:: By fiscal years	Individuals	Corporations	Total1940-41 	$ 147,989	$ 23,847,280	$	23,995,2691941-42 	
3,483,384	131,684,961	135,168,3451942-43 	
11,380,178	443,200,499	454,580,6771943-44 	
21,417,744	447,300,096	468,717,8401944-45 	
24,186,853	441,618,504	465,805,3571945-46 	
28,637,751	465,558,732	494,196,4831946-47 	
27,652,448	421,044,995	448,697,4431947-48 	
13,144,480	213,886,014	227,030,4941948 (to Feb. 28/49) 	
5,859,009	37,161,653	43,020,662$ 135,909,836	$ 2,625,302,734	$	2,761,212,570



POSTAL SERVICE-LOSS IN HANDLING NEWSPAPERS AND PERIODICALS

Gordon Knapman Fraser: Of the estimated loss of $7,460,689 sustained by the Post Office Department during the year 1948 in handling newspapers and periodicals mailed by publishers, what amount of this loss was caused by the handling of (a) daily newspapers; (b) weekly newspapers; (c) magazines and periodicals?


Mr. Bertrand (Laurier):: No information available as to the proportion attributable to (a) daily newspapers; (b) weekly newspapers; (c) magazines and periodicals.
To obtain accurate breakdown of costs into three categories of publications as requested would have added considerably to cost of obtaining information and, moreover, might have delayed mails; accordingly, loss for all publications was determined.



SYSTEM OF MONETARY EXCHANGE


Mr. Isnor:: Has Canada during the past three years suggested to Great Britain that that country consider changing from the sterling form of exchange to that of dollars and cents?


Mr. Belzile:: No.


Mr. Isnor:: 1.	Has Canada, during the past five years, requested the united nations monetary and financial conference to consider the advisability of having Great Britain and other sterling areas change to the dollar and cent system of monetary exchange?
2.	If so (a) when; (b) what was the result?


Mr. Belzile:: 1.	No.
2.	Answered by No. 1.



IMMIGRATION


Mr. Diefenbaker:: 1.	How many orders in council relative to the provisions of the Immigration Act have been passed since the first day of July, 1947?
2.	Of said orders in council, how many have not been (a) published in the Canada Gazette; (b) tabled in parliament?


Mr. MacKinnon:: This question was answered in the return tabled today.


Mr. Speaker:: Answered.


John George Diefenbaker: Mr. Speaker, I have examined the return to which the minister refers and I think he must be mistaken because that question was not answered. I would ask that the question be allowed to stand.


James Angus MacKinnon: The hon. member spoke to me about this, and I am quite agreeable to having the question stand.



TRANS-CANADA HIGHWAY    RESPONSIBILITY FOR MAINTENANCE

Gordon Benjamin Isnor: When the trans-Canada highway is completed, whose responsibility will it be to keep the highway open for traffic-dominion or provincial?


James Angus MacKinnon: This question has not yet been considered. In the past when the federal government has shared in cost of constructing highways in the provinces it has never contributed to the cost of maintenance. The sections of the trans-Canada highway in national parks will be kept open by the federal government.



BUILDINGS DECLARED SURPLUS AT PAULSON, MAN.

Mr. Zaplitny:: 1.	What buildings have been declared surplus at No. 7 B. and G. at Paulson, Manitoba, since January 1, 1948?
2.	Which of such buildings have been sold; to whom, and at what price?
3.	What was the original cost of each building referred to above?


George James McIlraith: 1. None.
2 and 3. Answered by No. 1.



EXPORTS OF CERTAIN PRODUCTS


Mr. Stephenson:: 1.	What amount of apples, tobacco, honey, potatoes, was exported from Canada during 1948, and to what countries?
2.	What markets, if any, have been found for these products during the years 1949-1950?


Mr. Mcllraiih:: 1.	See statement below.
2.	Exports of these products are handled by commercial concerns and the government
Questions
has no information concerning the years 1949-50. It is doubtful that, under present conditions, the firms concerned have been able to obtain export commitments this far in advance.
1. Canadian exports by countries, of specified commodities, during the year 1948:
Item and Country
Apples:	Bbl.
Union of South Africa	 18,064
India	 592
British Malaya	   9,638
Bermuda	 5,207
British Guiana	 26
Barbados	 5
Jamaica	 9
Bahamas	 9
Leeward and Windward Islands	347
Hong Kong	 23,224
Newfoundland	 44,324
Belgium	 3,000
Belgian Congo	 266
Brazil	 92,019
Cuba	 359
Greenland	 44
St. Pierre and Miquelon	 965
Haiti	 37
Japan	 18
Netherlands West Indies	 31
San Domingo	 100
Alaska	 865
Hawaii	 14,937
Philippine Islands	 22,259
Venezuela	 3,352
United States	 515,345
Total	 755,042
Tobacco, raw leaf:	Lb.
United Kingdom	 12,487,642
Union of South Africa	 54,940
Eire	 1,554
British Guiana	 198,707
Barbados	 227,945
Jamaica	 1,194,574
Trinidad	 853,637
Leeward and Windward Islands 146,896
Newfoundland	 652,800
St. Pierre and Miquelon	 100
Belgium	 49,579
United States	 9,320
Total	 15,877,694
Honey:	Lb.
Newfoundland	 3,935
Belgium	 11,200
Japan	 818
Alaska	 96
Hawaii	 240
United States	 14,852
Total	 31,141
Questions

Potatoes, table:	Bu.
Union of South	Africa	 2,834
British Malaya	 1,666
Bermuda	 57,899
British Guiana	 49,046
British Honduras	 1,240
Barbados	 40,740
Jamaica	 8,345
Trinidad	 139,407
Bahamas	 25,702
Leeward and Windward Islands 34,178
Hong Kong	 20,098
Newfoundland		 400,457
Brazil	 5,375
Cuba	 27,975
St. Pierre and	Miquelon	 27,226
Haiti	 1,691
Japan	 1,676
Netherlands West Indies	 1,664
Panama	 616
San Domingo	 10,299
Alaska	 2,493
Virgin Islands of U.S	 681
Hawaii	 58,643
Philippine Islands	 9,946
Puerto Rico	 2,000
Venezuela	 26,281
United States	 1,967,797
Total	 2,925,975
Potatoes, certified seed:	Bu.
Union of South Africa	 49,126
Bermuda	 8,817
Jamaica	 9,775
Bahamas	 83
Leeward and Windward Islands	12
Newfoundland	 10,752
Palestine	 63,593
Argentina	 178,236
Brazil	 5,544
Cuba	 359,571
St. Pierre and Miquelon	 103
Mexico	 22,336
Netherlands West	Indies	 1,941
Panama	 2,257
San Domingo	 9,824
Uruguay	  208,150
Venezuela	 82,109
United States	 4,331^707
Total	 5,343,936



PUBLIC WORKS-OTTAWA-MALE EMPLOYEES RESIDENT IN QUEBEC PROVINCE

Mr. Lennard:: 1.	How many male employees are employed by the Department of Public Works in Ottawa through the George street office?
2.	Of this number how many reside in Quebec?


Mr. Fournier (Hull):: 1.	892.
2.	171.
[Mr. Mcllraith.l



*OLD AGE PENSIONS


Mr. Low:: 1.	Did the Minister of National Health and Welfare receive a copy of a resolution passed by several municipalities at Timmins, Ontario, calling for an increase in old age pensions?
2.	If so, on what day was the said resolution received?
3.	What action is being taken?


Mr. Marlin:: Perhaps I might answer this question orally. The answer to the first part of the question is yes. The answer to the second part is; on February 21, 1949. As to the third part of the question, I cannot say what action will be taken by the provincial governments. So far as this government is concerned, the policy will be announced in due course.



ST. LAWRENCE WATERWAY-SHARE OF COST TO BE BORNE BY ONTARIO AND QUEBEC

Mr. Isnor:: 1.	If the proposed St. Lawrence waterway and power project is proceeded with, will the provinces of Ontario and Quebec be asked to jointly share the Canadian cost of same?
2.	If not, what proportion will these two provinces share?


Mr. Lapoinie:: 1.. No.
2. Under the terms of the agreement signed by representatives of Canada and the United States in 1941, Canada would undertake to complete the all-Canadian portions of the project and a part of the international portion. It would be the intention of the Canadian government, however, to endeavour to conclude arrangements with Ontario and Quebec for turning over to them the power facilities constructed in connection with the combined project, on mutually acceptable terms.	[DOT]



QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS


Mr. Aylesworih:: 1.	How many free lance producers, announcers and continuity writers were employed in the calendar years 1947 and 1948 (a) by the national networks; (b) by the international service of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation?
2.	What was the total sum, before deductions, paid to these free lance persons?
3.	What was the total earned in each of these years by the six most highly paid free lance persons?
4.	How much were these amounts in excess of or less than regular staff salaries paid for the same work?

SHIPMENTS OF LIVESTOCK FOR SLAUGHTER Mr. Merrill:
1.	How many shipments of live horses for slaughter were made from Canada in 1948?
2.	What was the date and port of departure, and the port of destination of each vessel, and what was the number of animals in each shipment?
3.	What steps were taken in connection with each shipment to ensure compliance with the regulations governing the shipment of livestock, and to ascertain the condition of the animals themselves (a) at or about the time of sailing; (b) during the voyage; (c) upon arrival at port of discharge?


FERTILIZER AND CHEMICALS-INTERNATIONAL CONTROL
Mr. Hatfield:: 1.	Is the price and allotment of Canadian fertilizer and chemicals set up during wartime still under international pool control?
2.	If so, what percentage is allotted to the different countries operating under the quota set up by this pool; both mixed fertilizer and chemicals?


Gleason Belzile: Return tabled.



NATIONAL FILM BOARD


Mr. Fraser:: 1.	What was the total cost of production for the films "Canada Carries On" put on by the national film board for the years (a) 1947; (b) 1948?
2.	How many different subjects were produced?
3.	What was the total revenue raised from all sources for the use of these films for the years (a) 1947; (b) 1948?
4.	What was the total amount other than revenues received by the national film board for sale of prints of films made in Canada of "Canada Carries On" (a) sales made to Canadian purchasers; (b) sales made to foreign purchasers?
5.	What firm or firms distributed this "Canada Carries On" series in 1947-1948 (a) in Canada;
(b)	in the U.S.A.; (c) in other countries?
6.	What did each distributor firm pay the national film board for rights, or privilege of distribution?



POLYMER CORPORATION

Mr. McCuaig:: 1.	Is the Polymer Corporation in Sarnia, Ontario, solely owned, controlled and operated by the government?
2.	What was the total cost of construction and building of the Polymer Corporation at Sarnia, Ontario?
3.	Since the Polymer Corporation first started to operate, what was the total production in each year up to December 31, 1948, of (a) rubber products made from grain; (b) rubber products made from oil; (c) rubber products made from natural rubber?
4.	How much of the above products was sold to (a) Canadian trade; (b) the export market?
5.	At what prices were these products sold in each of the years of its operation?
6.	What was the net revenue of the Polymer Corporation in each year of operation?
7.	By what method are their products disposed of?



INDUSTRIAL PLANTS IN OSHAWA

Mr. Williams:: 1. How much money was spent on industrial plants in Oshawa during the years 1939, 1940, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944 and 1945 for (a) erection; (b) expansion;
(c)	equipment?
Orders for Returns
2.	What are the names of such plants and the amount spent on each for (a) erection; (b) expansion; (c) equipment?
3.	What sum of money has been recovered by the federal treasury from each of such plants through sale to them of the plants so erected, expanded or for equipment?



IMMIGRATION


Mr. Diefenbaker:: 1.	How many persons to the knowledge of the immigration authorities have illegally entered Canada since the first of July, 1947?
2.	From what countries did said persons come and what were the numbers from each country?
3.	In how many cases has illegal entry into Canada by said persons been legalized by order in council?
4.	How many of said persons used forged or invalid passports?



WAR ASSETS


Mr. Williams:: 1.	What sum of money did the government expend on the extension, improvement and equipping of the John Inglis plant, including bren guns section, in Toronto, for the years 1937, 1938, 1939, 1940, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1945?
2.	To whom did war assets dispose of this property? If to more than one purchaser, what was the amount received from each?
3.	What sum of money did the government expend on the extension, improvement and equipping of the Massey-Harris plants at (a) Toronto; (b) Weston, for the years 1937, 1938, 1939, 1940, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1945?
4.	What sum of money did this company pay to the government for its present ownership of the properties at (a) Toronto; (b) Weston?
5.	What sum of money did the government expend on the extension, improvement and equipping of the Toronto Shipbuilding Company, Toronto, for the years 1937, 1938, 1939, 1940, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1945?
6.	What sum of money did this company pay to the government for its present ownership of the properties?
7.	What sum of money did the government expend on the extension, improvement and equipping of the John T. Hepburn Company Limited, Toronto, for the years 1937, 1938, 1939, 1940, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1945?
8.	What sum of money did this company pay to the government for its present ownership of the properties?



TOURIST INDUSTRY


Mr. Cruickshank:: 1.	At the port of Huntingdon during the year 1948 how many (a) individuals; (b) motor cars entered Canada?
2.	What was the total revenue at this port during the year 1948?
MONTREAL-ST. LAMBERT, QUE.; HALIFAX-



DARTMOUTH, N.S.    TUNNEL OR BRIDGE CONNECTIONS

Mr. Isnor:: 1. Has the government considered a plan to provide a tunnel from Montreal to St. Lambert, Quebec?

Motions for Papers
2.	If so (a) what is the estimated cost; (b) is it to be used by the Canadian National Railways; (c) on what basis is the cost to be borne?
3.	Has the government considered a bridge or tunnel from Halifax to Dartmouth, Nova Scotia?
4.	If so (a) what is the estimated cost; (b) on what basis is the cost to be borne?



PRICE CONTROL

Mr. Caoueile:: 1.	What controls are still in force in Canada?
2.	What products and what economic activities are still under the control of the federal government?



MOTIONS FOR PAPERS


Mr. Murphy:: For a copy of all current agreements between Polymer Corporation of Canada Limited and any unions representing the workers in said corporation, in respect to (a) wages and conditions of work; (b) hospitalization, superannuation, pension and other security benefits.


Mr. Howe:: This motion presents some difficulty. The Polymer Corporation is a crown company with its own board of directors, and in that way is on all fours with the Canadian National Railways. As you know, Mr. Speaker, it has been the practice not to answer, from the floor of the house, questions having to do with the internal operation of the Canadian National Railways. The situation in this regard is aggravated by the fact that the management of the corporation and its directors have been having labour discussions with the employees; and I feel that any publicity from here might be harmful to the successful conclusion of those talks if they have not already been concluded. I think my hon. friend will see the difficulty, and I hope he will agree to drop the motion.


Joseph Warner Murphy: Very well.


Mr. Speaker:: Dropped.



POLYMER CORPORATION


Joseph Warner Murphy: For a copy of all existing agreements made by Polymer Corporation of Canada Limited with any municipality or other companies or corporations respecting the sale of hydro electric power, water, steam or other energy products.


Clarence Decatur Howe: The same situation applies here as in the case of the previous motion. Polymer Corporation is engaged in a highly competitive business. It has a turnover of some $20 million a year. About one-third of its product is sold in Canada, one-third in the United States, and one-third in several European countries. These agreements represent contracts with various Canadian companies. Perhaps there is no great diffi-
IMr; IsnorJ
culty about these particular contracts, but I should not like to establish the practice of laying on the table of the house contracts between Polymer Corporation and its customers in all parts of the world. I shall be glad if my hon. friend will consent to drop this motion. If he insists on it, perhaps we will do it with the reservation I have indicated.


Joseph Warner Murphy: I prefer not to drop it.


Gordon Graydon: May I ask the Minister of Trade and Commerce a question, based on what he has said with respect to this motion? I do not want to deal with the second reason for not desiring to give the information, because it is a matter of which I have no knowledge. But the first premise upon which he based his argument places hon. members in a most invidious position. How are we to get information unless questions are asked and answered on the floor of the house? On a matter of this kind there is no committee comparable with the railways and shipping committee, which of course sits from time to time. Information is readily available in the sittings of that committee. My question is, where do we get the information?


Clarence Decatur Howe: The committee on railways and shipping, or some other appropriate committee, is entitled to inquire into the affairs of any crown company. The annual report of the Polymer Corporation will be tabled in due course. If an hon. member wishes it referred to a committee, all he needs to do is to so move, and I can assure my hon. friend that I would not object. I think my hon. friend will see that it is practically impossible to carry on a business with the turnover of the Polymer Corporation, the diversity of products which it manufactures, and the multiplicity of markets in which the product is sold, if its day to day business transactions are to be subject to discussion in parliament.
If a committee wishes to look into the Polymer Corporation I shall be only too glad to facilitate that action.


Gordon Graydon: What committee is appropriate to that purpose? It does not come under any of the standing committees.


Clarence Decatur Howe: One can be set up, if necessary.


Gordon Graydon: One has not been set up, though.


Mr. Speaker:: Does the hon. member agree to the motion being dropped?


Joseph Warner Murphy: No.


Mr. Speaker:: I have only one alternative, namely, to put the question to the house. Is it the pleasure of the house to adopt the motion?


Some hon. Members:: Yea.


Some hon. Members:: Nay.


Mr. Speaker:: In my opinion the nays have it.
(And some members having risen):


Mr. Speaker:: Call in the members.


Gordon Graydon: Saved by the C.C.F. again.
Messrs:
Abbott
Arsenault
Baker
Beaudoin
Beaudry
Belzile
Benidickson
Bentley
Bertrand (Laurier) Bertrand (Prescott) Bertrand (Terrebonne) Black (Chateauguay-Huntingdon) Blanchette
Boivin	[DOT]
Bonnier
Boucher
Bourget
Bowerman
Bradette
Breithaupt
Brown
Brunelle
Bryce
Burton
Campbell
Caouette
Castleden
Chevrier
Claxton
Cleaver
Cloutier
Coldwell
Cote (Matapedia-Matane) Cote (St. Johns-Iberville -Napierville)
Cote (Verdun)
Cournoyer
Croll
Cruickshank


Mr. Abbott:: Two to one.



WAR ASSETS


Mr. Zaplitny:: For a copy of all letters, telegrams, correspondence and other documents exchanged between War Assets Corporation and any person, persons or corporations since January 1, 1948, in connection with buildings at No. 7 B. and G. at Paulson, Manitoba.



IMMIGRATION


Mr. Ross (St. Paul's):: For a copy of all immigration regulations and orders in council issued from October 1, 1947, to date regarding the entry into Canada of individuals or groups of people.

Inquiries of the Ministry
SOCIAL SECURITY	VETERANS AFFAIRS



CONTRIBUTORY OVER-ALL INSURANCE  AMEND- . MENT OF BRITISH NORTH AMERICA ACT

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Stanley Knowles (Winnipeg North Centre):: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a question to the Prime Minister? Has the federal government inquired of the provinces as to their attitude with regard to amending the British North America Act if such is necessary in order to make possible the enactment of contributory over-all social insurance? If not, is consideration being given to the making of such inquiries at an early date?


Louis Stephen St-Laurent: The proposal for contributory over-all social insurance was one of those put forward by the federal government at the last dominion-provincial conference and about which it was not possible to reach an agreement. There has been no indication of any change since that time in the attitude of the representatives of the provinces who were opposed to the proposal put forward by the federal government. Consideration is not being given to the reconvening of the conference at this time.


Stanley Howard Knowles: May I ask a supplementary question? I was asking in particular whether any inquiries had been made of the provinces with respect to amending the British North America Act. Was that under discussion at the dominion-provincial conference?


Louis Stephen St-Laurent: That was involved in the proposal put forward at the dominion-provincial conference, and the spokesman for the delegation from one of the provinces said that he would not consider any amendment to the British North America Act, not even one that would be permissive in the sense that it would allow the dominion or the provinces to delegate to each other some of their powers, either permanently or for a period. He would not have even agreed to that, and there has been no indication of any change in his attitude.


Stanley Howard Knowles: Is the government permitting one of the provinces to veto the best interests of the people of Canada?


Mr. Drew:: May I ask the Prime Minister what province that was?


Louis Stephen St-Laurent: That was the premier of the province of Quebec.
[Mr. Ross (St. Paul's) .1



UNIVERSITY TRAINING GRANTS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. E. B. McKay (Weyburn):: I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Veterans Affairs, a copy of which I have sent him. In view of the representations being made to members of the house by student veterans across Canada requesting consideration for an increase in university training grants, would the minister reconsider his decision not to set up a parliamentary committee on veterans affairs?


Hon. Milion F. Gregg (Minister of Veterans Affairs):: I did not receive a copy of the question; and I was not able to hear the hon. member very clearly. I shall take note of his remarks in Hansard and deal with the matter later.



INQUIRIES FOR RETURNS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Douglas Gooderham Ross: On February 9 a question of mine was passed as an order for return. I wonder when I may expect to get it. Will the Secretary of State look into the matter?



CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Douglas Gooderham Ross: On February 23 two questions of mine were passed as orders for returns. I should like the minister to look into these also.


Hon. Colin Gibson (Secretary of State):: shall be glad to look into the matter and ascertain if these returns can be brought down.



UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE COMMISSION


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Stanley Howard Knowles: Will the Minister of Labour look up a motion for the production of papers standing in my name, passed on February 16 of this year and recorded at page 595 of Hansard, and see if the return may be brought down soon?	|

The Address-Mr. Stanfield
Hon, Humphrey Mitchell (Minisler of Mr, Bertrand (Laurier): No, it would not Labour): I shall be glad to try to comply be possible unless we were prepared to with the wishes of my hon. friend.	spend a considerable amount of money, and
I do not think it would be worth it.
ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS	Mr. Fraser: But, Mr. Speaker-



INCOME TAX


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. Donald M, Fleming (Eglinton): On
March 3, on a question of privilege, I drew attention to the fact that a question of mine on the order paper, which had been said by the minister to be answered, had not been answered. Nothing has been done since; six days now have passed, and I ask your direction, Mr. Speaker, that the question be restored to the order paper. It reads:
On January 1, 1949, on how many income tax returns, by years and by district offices, had assessments not been made?

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. G. K, Fraser (Peterborough West): I
wish to direct a question to the Postmaster General in reference to an answer to a question standing in my name on today's order paper. The question has been answered by the statement that a proper breakdown cannot be given. I am going to ask now if the minister cannot give an approximate figure of what it costs his department to carry daily newspapers, weekly newspapers and periodicals.
Ernest Bertrand: It would be difficult to give even an approximate figure, because these periodicals, daily and weekly newspapers, and so on, are not counted. It would probably cost a good deal of money to keep track of them for a year in order to give the approximate loss on each class.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: In regard to-


Some hon. Members:: Order.


Mr. Speaker:: Order. As the hon. member knows, when a question is put to the minister before the orders of the day are called it is supposed to relate to an urgent matter. I do not see any urgency in the question asked by the hon. gentleman, and I suggest that he put his question on the order paper.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: I have already had it on the order paper, and have not been given a proper answer. I should like to know if it is not possible to give even an estimated amount.


Some hon. Members:: Order.


Some hon. Members:: Order.


George Alexander Cruickshank: On a question of privilege, Mr. Speaker, I suggest that there should be a little more decorum and not so many interruptions in the house.



SPEECH FROM THE THRONE


[Stage Direction]
The house resumed from Tuesday, March 8, consideration of the motion of Mr. D. F. Brown for an address to His Excellency the Governor General in reply to his speech at the opening of the session, and the amendment thereto of Mr. Drew, and the amendment to the amendment of Mr. Coldwell.
Mr. Frank T. Sian field (Colchesier-Hanis):
Mr. Speaker, I have only a few observations to add to what I said last evening before the house adjourned. I was referring then to the proposed St. Lawrence ship canal. I know this is a very important question, not only to the people of Canada but to the people of the United States as well. Being a good maritimer, however, I cannot do anything but take the position, which I think is very fair, that this canal will cost a great deal of money, of which the people of the mari-times will have to pay their share, and I think I am safe in saying they will not get any economic value whatever from the expenditure of that money on the construction of the proposed St. Lawrence canal. I for one could not vote for that project if we in the maritime provinces did not get something in return to offset that expenditure of money; and in that connection I suggest the bridge across the strait of Canso. I am not putting that forward as a threat at all, but being a good maritimer I figure it is nothing more than good business.
Now that Newfoundland has been brought into confederation the question of a bridge across the strait of Canso has become a matter of great importance. The people of Newfoundland have to get to and from that island, and that is going to be our responsibility; which makes the bridging of the strait of Canso very necessary indeed. The population of Nova Scotia and the maritimes as a whole has increased considerably, together with the rest of Canada; and if the people down there are to make a good living for themselves they must have fast, good transportation, which will enable them to compete
[Stage Direction]
The Address-Mr. Drope on an equal basis with the rest of Canada. I do not intend to get into any argument on freight rates at this moment, but I must say that if we are to have the St. Lawrence canal deepened I do believe we in the maritimes should have the bridge across the strait of Canso.
There is only one other matter on which I want to speak; that is the reclaiming of our marshlands.
It is my understanding that something was to be done this session by the government by bringing down a bill for the reclaiming of the marshlands. We are very anxious to get the work started as early as possible this spring. As you know, a great many of the farms in Nova Scotia were abandoned during the war because of the high pay offered for other forms of work. We are very anxious to get these people back on the farms, but on good farms, not poor farms. Nothing would strengthen the economy of Nova Scotia more than getting twice as many people on the farms as we have now. The reclaiming of our marshlands would play a big part in any such program because they are rich lands and, worked in conjunction with the uplands, make good farms.
I should like to ask the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. McCubbin) whether or not the government contemplates bringing down a bill of that nature this session. It appears no one wishes to answer that question, Mr. Speaker. I see British Columbia is going ahead with some work of this nature-that is, the rediking of the Fraser river-and I realize that is very necessary; but so is the reclamation of our marshland in Nova Scotia. During the past four or five years many promises of help have been received in connection with reclaiming our marsh area; but so far nothing more has been done than merely helping, on a contributory basis, in repairing some breaks that come in the dikes. We should like to have some action started on the actual reclaiming of these rich marshlands this spring. With that, I shall conclude my remarks, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. R. E. Drope (Northumberland, Oni.):: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to take part in this debate. First, I should like to congratulate the mover (Mr. Brown) and the seconder (Mr. Demers) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne. I suppose this is the first time in the history of parliament that there has been a change of leaders of the two major parties at the same session. I should like to congratulate the Prime Minister on attaining his high office and also the leader of the opposition, who has demonstrated beyond
[Mr. Stanfield.l
the shadow of a doubt that he is a good leader and will be the next Prime Minister of Canada.
In the Globe and Mail, under date of March 5, I noticed an article the heading of which is "Unseemly Row." Some remarks are made in this article about the backbenchers of the Conservative party. I should like to say to this house that the backbenchers of the Conservative party are a fine body of men who observe the rules as well as any other group in the house. Just on this point, I should like to say that it makes little difference whether one is a backbencher or in the front benches. All the members of this house are on an equal footing, and all do their best to represent their constituencies. So far as I am concerned, I do not intend to take a back seat to anybody when it comes to talking about Northumberland county.
In this article to which I have referred, mention is made of the fact that the Minister of Transport (Mr. Chevrier) should have had more time allotted to him. The ministers of the crown are covered by the same rules as the other members of the house. The minister had already spoken for forty minutes-


An hon. Member:: Oh no.


Robert Earle Drope: Well, that is what the clock said, and there are three or four of them in this chamber. After having spoken for forty minutes, the last person to whom more time should be given is a minister. The ministers make statements every day and take up so much time that some of the ordinary members have few opportunities of saying anything. I am one of those who believe that not many people are converted in the last twenty minutes of a fifty minute sermon.
The tourist industry is something in which a great many citizens of Northumberland county are interested. I wish to congratulate the member for Lambton West (Mr. Murphy) on his approach to this problem. United States visitors to Canada should be encouraged. There is no better place in which to spend a holiday than in Canada, and no better place in Ontario than the county of Northumberland.
Much has been heard about the trans-Canada highway. No one need be in any doubt about where this party stands with regard to it, because our leader made our position quite clear. One of the first things we should have is a trans-Canada highway. I would say to the people of Canada that the sooner the leader of this party is Prime Minister, the sooner the construction of a trans-Canada highway will be undertaken.
The mail service is something that is of concern to all people. I should like to go on

record as saying that we are certainly living in the horse-and-buggy days so far as the postal services are concerned. The rural mail routes were laid out about thirty years ago. Everything in the country has changed during the last thirty years, and there have been shifts in the population. Very few changes have been made in the layout of the rural mail routes. The contracts for these routes still call for traveling at least four miles an hour, and that is about as fast as the mail seems to travel.
In my county there is one township in particular for which the mail has to be routed via Peterborough to reach the main line. Some of the boxholders tell me they could walk to Peterborough and back before a letter reaches that point. I brought this to the attention of the Post Office Department, but they are still fumbling around trying to ascertain whether anything can be done about it.
We are becoming so used to taxes on many things that nothing has been done about the tax on soft drinks and chocolate bars. I presume the government believes we are going to accept it as a permanent thing. It was put on during the war but, as most of us know, the war has been over for three or four years. The tax remains in effect, however.
I received a letter in my mail box just before coming into the chamber. It contains an offer from the film board to sell to members of the House of Commons and Senate, at the reduced rate of ten dollars, a film of the opening of parliament. It is said this is far below cost. Considering the amount of money the film board spends, I do not see any reason for offering this film to members of parliament at a reduced rate. Throughout the country the film board shows pictures, quite a number of which are enjoyable. It seems to me, however, that the people in charge of the making of some of these films are not too familiar with the agricultural scenes they are depicting.
Last week a picture was shown in the county of Northumberland depicting life on a modern dairy farm. The farmer put on his white overalls in the morning and went out to the barn. The stables had been all cleaned when he arrived, but I do not know who did that. Then the farmer proceeds to milk his fine herd of Holstein cows. After the milking he takes his herd of cows down to the pasture. The film continues by showing the work the farmer has to do during the day. Milking time comes around again and the farmer goes down to the pasture, but this time he returns with a herd of Ayrshire cows. It is wonderful how quickly the national film board can change the scene.
The Address-Mr. Drope
When we get talking about dairy cows, that brings us to a subject I think I know something about. I was interested in the return that was asked for by the hon. member for Eglinton (Mr. Fleming) under date of February 23. I understand by this return that we imported into this country 15,680,000 pounds of butter. While some people have the idea that butter is too high in this country, I find when we get it over in Australia, New Zealand and Denmark a great deal more is paid for it than the farmers in Canada get. This butter is brought in, and in order to keep it at or below the ceiling it costs the taxpayers of Canada some $866,000. The actions of this government have certainly hit the farmers of this country. If reports are true that one out of six of our population is in some way interested in dairying, a good section of the population is certainly in for a bad time in the months ahead as a result of the action of the present government.
We make some cheese in this country and we seem to be exporting less of it each year.
I would suggest that, instead of putting the cheese up in the usual ninety-pound packages, we should put it up in smaller ones. A factory in my county is putting it up in smaller packages. The cheese could be put up in square packages so that it could be cut into pounds and half pounds, and wrapped in waxed paper. That is something that the average housewife will buy when she goes into the store, if it is wrapped up in a neat package. I believe we could sell more on the home market, which we all realize is the best market of all.
Income tax is the No. 1 problem of practically everybody you speak to. We are taxed to death. Nearly everyone is talking about the way the government is taking millions of dollars more than it needs. We heard that we had a surplus of $675 million. I wonder if the Minister of Finance (Mr. Abbott) credited all that against the debt of this country? If we have had all these surpluses that have been talked about, one would think that our debt would be reduced more than it is. The hon. member for Lambton-Kent (Mr. Henderson) the other day said something about these income tax forms. I do not want to repeat too much of what was said in that regard. I obtained a copy of that form, and I notice that it has been cut down from six pages to four. As to farmers, I think one page with about seven or eight questions would cover the whole thing, and that it would be something the average farmer would understand. If I were doing this, that is the way it would be. There is no need of all these questions. They are merely confusing. I often wonder if it does not cost about $10 to collect $5.

The Address-Mr. Drope
Food is a big problem in the world today. We in Canada probably have not so much to worry about; our biggest problem is finding satisfactory markets. But food is something that is of great concern to the world, and probably the peace of the world may depend upon it. Looking at the matter from the point of view of the world picture, at the present time we are up against a crisis. There is a world shortage of food amounting to famine in some lands, while in others there is a ration scale more skimpy than during the war. We in Canada are likely to think of hunger as a gnawing sensation that sends us with all speed to the nearest restaurant or to the kitchen; and we are surprised when we hear from a displaced person that chronic hunger does not make itself felt in the stomach but rather in the head. After a few months of inadequate diet your mind is robbed of all thought except that of finding something to eat. With that as your main desire, you cannot concentrate on producing goods for export, or on the moral issues in life.
Just last week I heard an appalling story of conditions in China. I heard it from a Canadian who had just returned after visiting that country. This person actually witnessed 89 children being picked up off the streets, they having died the night before from starvation. Twenty-six trucks were working in other parts of Shanghai at the same time and at the end of the trip dumped the dead bodies into an incinerator. That is only one illustration of the terrible misery in the world today. Can there be no solution to the problem of the distribution of food?
Solution of the problem emphasizes not only Ruskin's memorable dictum, "if you want food you must toil for it," but also the need for understanding, education and co-operation. This means that we must realize how utterly dependent we are upon the earth and its fruits. Canadians have a country which, by virtue of the gifts of Providence, is one of the largest suppliers of food to the world market. While many other countries have skidded far down the road toward national suicide by destroying the soil which alone makes possible their survival, we in Canada must constantly be on guard to protect our soil and expand its usefulness. Only a few inches of top soil stand between the human race and oblivion. It is the one natural resource, besides air and water, without which human life cannot exist. The land is not only the source of life-sustaining food; it is the base of our economy. It stores up energy and releases it when we need it. Knowing its capabilities, treating it according to its needs, using the proper methods of cultivating it, conserving its goodness- 
these form the base of the farmer's responsibility to the land.
But the man in the town or city is equally concerned, because no matter what his business may be he depends absolutely on the soil for what he eats. We need to co-operate to see that no productive land anywhere is being wasted. Every acre which goes out of production means that the pressure is increased on the remaining good acres. Unless we understand this, and do something effective about it, the people in barren countries will be driven to poverty, hunger and discord; and this is the condition of which strife is born. Canada is vitally interested in the world's food problem because she is one of the world's main surplus food producers. With a few others like the United States, Australia, New Zealand, Argentina and Brazil, her people have nothing to worry about so far as they themselves are concerned. But in the "want" countries it appears from statistics that about three-quarters of the people went to bed hungry last night, and for years of nights before that. The situation has its effect on the prospects of world peace. A hungry man does not look at life in the same way as he would if he were well fed. There is apathy in his outlook. Interest in public, political, social and cultural matters dies within him. He becomes centred on thoughts of self-preservation and preservation of his family at all costs.
The key to maintaining supplies of food and extending them is a program of soil conservation. Every grain of wheat, every egg, every pound of butter and every piece of beef depends upon an irreducible minimum of earth to produce it. The next few years will be critical in world history. It is mankind's biggest job to ward off world hunger. How to do this is a good subject for discussion in community meetings and forums, not only in country districts but in towns and cities. We are all in the same world boat, with limited supplies of food. Businessmen, housewives, farmers, transportation workers and others are all on one level when it comes to need of food and the preservation of world order.
The most critical danger is that we may forget how short we are of time. Today's crisis calls for an immediate uprising of the idea of conservation and development. Productivity of individuals needs to be increased by provision of modern scientific knowledge and modern tools, and by inspiring them so to work as to become a new source of wealth. There is a stirring need for laymen and women to work with the ABC's of the problem: advance education and industry; balance deficiencies with surpluses; conserve soil and resources.

The food which is produced from our farms, and any form of distribution, should be contributed by the nation as a whole and not by agriculture alone. In order to do this we should encourage our farmers in the great work that they are doing.


Mr. K. R. Daniel (Oxford):: Mr. Speaker, in order to make it unanimous, and to keep continuity in this debate, I should like to join with the other hon. members who have spoken and congratulate the mover (Mr. Brown) and seconder (Mr. Demers) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne. I should like also to join in the courtesies which have been extended to the new members, and to welcome them to their new seats in this house. At the same time may I congratulate the Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent) and the leader of the official opposition (Mr. Drew) upon their elevation to positions not only of great honour but also of great responsibility in connection with the affairs of this country.
In the course of my remarks I intend to refer to several items which are of great concern to the people of my constituency. I shall first say a word on behalf of the old age pensioners. Almost every hon. member who rises in his place in this house says something about old age pensions, and I would not feel that I had done my duty in this respect, even at the danger of repeating what other hon. members have already said, if I did not make a plea on behalf of the old age pensioners in my constituency.
It is common knowledge to all members of the government, as well as to all other hon. members, that these old age pensioners are in destitute circumstances since the cost of living has increased to its present high level. This is a situation which has developed more through government policies than anything else. The pensioners are caught between the anvil of fixed income and the hammer of increasing food, rent and clothing costs; in short, the increasing cost of living. The same thing might be said of all Canadians in the lower-income brackets. They are virtually in the same position. Their incomes have not increased at the same pace that the cost of all the things they have to buy has increased.
The government has permitted this situation to continue and snowball down through the years despite the fact that it has had record surpluses, and despite the fact that it could have made other adjustments in income-tax levels, which would have brought some measure of relief to Canadian workers. It would appear that now some consideration is forthcoming, but the tragedy of it is that it is coming in an election year. No matter
The Address-Mr. Daniel how the government may seek to interpret it, any gesture towards income-tax concessions now can be considered as nothing short of political bribery.
The government has seen fit to give some indication that tax reductions definitely are forthcoming in the next budget. The hint was given in the throne speech itself in one paragraph, which referred to the high level of national prosperity, and the fact that the government would recognize this in its budgetary proposals. This reference in the throne speech constituted an amazing budget leak, but there appear to have been other leaks from the budget. I quote from a news item in the London Free Press of January 19 of this year:
Petrolla, January 19. A "sunshine" budget for Canadians in 1949, and in particular for the rural communities was forecast here today by Robert McCubbin, M.P. for Middlesex West and parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Agriculture.
Further on in the report in the Free Press of January 19 Mr. McCubbin said:
I realize there have been some hard feelings about income tax, but there is no need to fear.
I am sure that that is reassuring news. The report continues:
There is going to be some redress given to those in the lower income brackets. I am bothered by the high rate of taxation and the high cost of living and feel these are matters the government must take in hand. Officials at Ottawa admitted in 1945 that a $2,000 exemption was not too much.
Coming from a parliamentary assistant, a man whose position must be considered an official one, this statement of the hon. member for Middlesex West is almost as amazing as the paragraph in the throne speech. If this is not a budget leak, how else can it be interpreted? At least it is a major concession to have the member for Middlesex West confess that he is bothered by the high rate of taxation and the high cost of living. But for him to say that these are matters which the government must take in hand must strike the people of western Ontario as a belated recognition of "twin" responsibilties of the government, of which the government should have been aware, and with which the government should have dealt in years gone by. It is a little too late now for this government to make any pretence at seeking to come to grips with the problem of the high cost of living.
The fact that the high cost of living was causing all the people of Canada concern was recognized by the government itself a year ago when it set up a committee of this house to investigate what was then described as the recent increase in the cost of living. This committee sat all through the last session of parliament, and this work was furthered by a

The Address-Mr. Daniel royal commission on prices. Now in March of 1949 the government still has not received its report on what caused the recent high rise in the cost of living-"recent" in terms of 1947 and 1948.
As far as the government was concerned, I do believe this prices inquiry achieved its purpose. It removed from the floor of the house discussion of the high cost of living. It permitted the government to sidestep the greatest issue of the day. It is a little too late now for the hon. member for Middlesex West, or any other member of the government, to rise in the commons chamber, or to appear on the hustings, and say that the government now is aware that there is such a thing as a high cost of living, and that it intends to do something about it. The budget of 1949 is a little too late to attempt to salve the wounds inflicted on Canadian taxpayers during the past three or four years. Too little and too late. That summarizes the record of this government.
Incidentally, while I am discussing the subject of income tax concessions generally, I would like to make reference in particular to the latest income tax form. In looking over this form I see the same old questions as were on the form of years gone by, but the printing has become much smaller. They have finally come up with what they call a simplified form. There would appear to be some confusion however in the income tax branch as to what is meant by simplification. After looking over the latest form it would appear to me that simplification, in the hands of the income tax branch, means condensation. The form is condensed and contains tiny type which a chartered accountant friend of mine told me the other day he defied any man over thirty years of age to read. He does a great deal of work on these forms, and it is his prediction that by next year he will probably be next thing to blind. Would I be too inquisitive if I were to ask the Minister of National Health and Welfare (Mr. Martin) if he intends to supply Canadian taxpayers with bifocals, or glasses of some kind, so that they might at least be able to read what is on these forms?
While the radio tax is not a heavy one in itself, I believe it is the one which more than any other causes concern to the people of Canada. They are not so much interested in the amount of the tax as in the way it is collected. I know that around Christmas time some radio inspectors came to my home town. They did not even play fair with the people because, first of all, when they came to town they called upon radio salesmen and at the post office to find out whether John Jones or Dick Smith had bought his licence, or whether he had bought one last year. Then

all they had to do was to go around and knock on doors, scaring the poor housewife half out of her wits. She would think she was going to be arrested, because probably she had told her husband to get one, and he had told her to get one, with the result that neither of them got one. They find themselves in trouble, and a few days later it all comes out in the local paper, stating that John Smith has been charged with a breach of the law.
These people are no respecters of persons, because the millionaires are treated the same as other people, including widows and old people. I know that in about two days in Ingersoll about 120 were picked up. They had to pay fines, and then had to go out and buy a new radio licence.
Another tax to which I should like to refer briefly is the luxury tax on jewelry, one which has been brought forcibly to our attention within the last few days. Many jewelers have complained to me about the hardship it worked on them. They have pointed out how it has reduced sales in their particular line of business. For instance, a jeweler may have an article classed as a luxury by the department. However, one may walk up the street to a dealer who handles a cheaper range of goods, but one which is perhaps along the same line, generally. This man would handle cutlery, dishes, and all kinds of jewelry. At the second store one could purchase almost the facsimile of the article but at a ridiculously low price. But there is no tax on the article in the second store. Therefore I say the luxury tax on jewelry should be abolished immediately.
I should like to come back to the hon. member for Middlesex West (Mr. McCubbin). I hope he does not think I am picking on him particularly. However, he seems to have been doing a good deal of talking around western Ontario in the last few weeks, so I cannot help quoting him.
Again I might cite the words of the hon. member for Middlesex West by way of proof that what this government has done to alleviate the situation for the Canadian taxpayers has been too little and too late. In an article which appeared in the London Free Press, he is quoted as telling the western Ontario agricultural institute that some families in Canada may be just as badly in need of clothes as those families in Britain receiving clothing parcels from this country. If families in Canada are in as sorry a plight as all that, then the member's own words constitute an indictment of this government's policies. It is true the hon. member was attempting to paint a glowing picture of the economic conditions in Britain, conditions

which he saw at first hand on a recent visit to that country. What the hon. member lor Middlesex West had to say on the subject has caused a great deal of consternation and controversy in this country and in Britain. The member's observations, as given to the western Ontario Jersey cattle club, were to the effect that Britain was well along the road to economic recovery, that everybody in Britain was working, was happy and was prosperous, that everybody had money and lots of it.
In another part of his speech the parliamentary assistant said that while in London he was unchaperoned. After reading what he has said, as reported in the Free Press, I am inclined to the belief that not only was he unchaperoned but that he was traveling incognito, and probably wearing rose-coloured glasses as well. Perhaps, after all, what he saw through those rose-coloured glasses was not really caviar, frogs' legs, quail on toast and all that kind of rich food he has spoken about, but rather just some more of the minister's applesauce. It will be recalled that the minister told us he was served applesauce during the two weeks he visited in Great Britain.
I know of no statement which has caused a greater injury to the harmony of Canadian-British relations than that of the hon. member for Middlesex West. It might be well to remind the hon. member that Britain today is getting major Marshall-plan assistance. Without this ERP, and other credits, Britain would be in a more difficult position than she is today. We all hope that she will be able to pull through in her battle of the dollar, as grim a fight as she staged during the war; but her battle has not yet been won. As far as we in this country are concerned, we cannot help wondering what will happen to Britain if and when ERP ceases; and, incidentally, we cannot help wondering what will happen to the level of our export trade to the United Kingdom if these funds suddenly should dry up.
Letters coming to private Canadians would indicate that the British people, rigidly rationed in the purchase of clothes and food, are having anything but a happy time. The rosy picture painted by the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Agriculture left, I believe, an entirely false impression in the minds of many people. It was a disturbing impression, one which cannot but cause misunderstanding.
Another matter I should like to discuss is that of bovine tuberculosis. In 1939 a petition was circulated among the farmers of Oxford county asking the federal government to make the county an accredited area for the purpose of having our dairy herds
The Address-Mr. Daniel declared free of bovine tuberculosis. This petition evidently had the required number of signatures, but before a start was made on the test the war intervened and naturally the project was dropped for the time being.
At that time the amount paid to the owners of these T.B. reactors was set at $60 for a grade animal and $150 for a purebred, but for some unknown reason the government paid only two-thirds of this valuation, or $40 maximum for a grade animal and $100 for a purebred.
I believe that in the house this week the Minister of Agriculture, answering a question of the hon. member for Bruce (Mr. Robinson), stated that the price of a purebred reactor was $100. I believe there must have been some mistake in that, because I am informed it is $150.


Mr. McCubbin:: I do not wish to interrupt, but I believe what the minister meant was that it was two-thirds of $150-the same as it would be two-thirds of $60. I believe there was some misunderstanding there.


Mr. Rowe:: He still gets only $100.


Robert McCubbin: Yes, and only $40.


Kenneth Roy Daniel: The price of a good grade cow was then about $100, so that if the animal reacted to the test and was condemned to slaughter, although the price of beef was very cheap the $40, or perhaps I should say $38, paid by the government was the maximum; and from there it grades down to as low as $10, $12 or $15. I have never heard of a farmer receiving the full $40. Although the price of beef was very cheap, the $40, or perhaps I should say the $38 paid by the government, plus the beef price of $50 average if the animal was passed by the veterinarian as fit for human consumption, made a total of $88. Of course, if the beast was declared useless the only receipt to the farmer for his $100 cow was the $38 government grant.
During the years of the war and since the prices of top grade dairy cattle have advanced to a high# of $250 to $300 per head, but the compensation has remained at the old level of $38 per head. The majority of these cattle in Oxford being of the dairy type, Holstein-Friesian, Jersey or Ayrshire, they never were classed as being particularly suitable for beef. The filet mignons that we sometimes get in Ottawa, and the other juicy steaks, do not as a rule come from beasts of the dairy type. Owing to the fact that they are tested at various stages of their lactation period they are usually rather on the thin side and in most cases are graded by the packing houses as canners or cutters or low-priced beef.
In spite of the comparatively high prices of all beef products the farmer receives only

The Address-Mr. Daniel an average of $100 to $150 provided the animal passes inspection. Suppose he gets $125 from the packer plus the government's $38, that makes a total of $163. Granted that the animal as a milk producer in her own stable is worth $250, that would leave a loss on the transaction of $87.
I realize that there are not many hon. members of this house who are acquainted with this situation. To the best of my knowledge there are only three in western Ontario who realize this situation. I spent the greater part of this morning trying to convince some of my colleagues on this side of the house that the farmer did not receive the full $60 or the full $150 mentioned the other day by the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner). The counties of Perth, Oxford and Middlesex East are the only counties in western Ontario where the test is presently going on.


Robert McCubbin: Middlesex West.


Kenneth Roy Daniel: The counties of Bruce, Huron, Brant and Lambton are applying for the test. I am sure that when those counties are being tested the minister will have many more resolutions coming in to him than he has had from the three counties I have mentioned, and I can assure you that to my knowledge he has had a great many from those three counties.
Many farmers have lost entire herds of from twenty or even eighty cattle or more. When that happens their whole economy is temporarily thrown off balance since they not only lose so much per head but in many cases find themselves unable to replace their herds, with the resulting loss of their monthly milk cheques. This is particularly a hardship on the young man who has just started up when he not only has to lose part of his capital investment but has no income with which to meet current expenses.
The Minister of Agriculture has received many resolutions during the past year from township councils, county councils and the federation of agriculture, but as yet he has made no change in the $38 compensation rate of many years' standing. The minister may remember the statement he made last February at Woodstock when he was the guest speaker at a meeting of the Oxford county federation of agriculture. On that occasion one of the persons who was attending the meeting stood up at the back of the hall and asked the minister a pertinent question in connection with an item we read a great deal about in the papers, something that is sometimes spread on bread. The minister answered that question in what I thought was a very good way.
To the best of my recollection he said that while he did not consider the question was

exactly fair, while he did not intend to commit himself, as a matter of fact he wanted to hear the debate on the matter on the floor of the house and after hearing that debate he would make up his mind as to any decision he might make. Therefore I am taking this opportunity to present to the Minister of Agriculture the position of the farmers of western Ontario and also the position of the farmers of eastern Ontario because I believe the testing will be started there very soon.
He suggested the other day that the government was considering making a change and I submit that either that change should go all across the board or the farmers should be paid for those reactors that become total losses. As it is now, for a $250 cow a farmer may receive only $38 plus $10 salvage for the hide, a total of $48. It is that fact that is causing a great deal of concern to the farmer.
I know of one herd of twenty-eight head in which fourteen were found to be reactors. Those cattle went into the fertilizer tank and the farmer received only $48 per head. If the government should come to a decision to pay more for these reactors I hope that it will be made retroactive so that the farmers of Oxford, Perth and Middlesex East may receive due consideration as well as the farmers in the new counties in which the test will be going on very soon.
In closing I should like to bring another matter to the attention of the Minister of Transport (Mr. Chevrier). The other day the hon. member for Leeds (Mr. Webb) asked the minister to look into a condition that existed in Brockville where Canadian National trains cross the main street and hold up traffic for considerable periods of time. No. 2 highway passes through the town of Ingersoll, and the railroad also passes through that town and cuts it in half practically in the middle. On the north side of the river is located one of,the largest factories in the town, employing possibly a thousand men. There are also two schools located there.
Three or four miles to the east of the town are located three limestone quarries. When the railroad is bringing in empty cars for the carriage of limestone products, crushed stone and so on, they are brought to Ingersoll and then put over what might be termed as the hump. Those who come from Winnipeg or Fort William will know how the wheat cars there are put over the hump for distribution. The result of this is that highwaj traffic is held up, perhaps not beyond the five-minute period, but sometimes it is nearly every other five minutes. I have seen the traffic held up as far back as two or three miles during the busy summer season.

The municipal council have taken up this matter at various times with the superintendent of the London division who has always been most courteous. He comes down to pay us a visit but the day he does come down the railway traffic seems to be very quiet. I presume he goes back to London and reports that the condition does not seem to be too bad, but the next day the traffic is twice as heavy. This is a situation which I wish the Minister of Transport would look into at his earliest opportunity.


Mr. T. A. Kidd (Kingston City):: Mr. Speaker, my purpose in rising to take part in this debate at the present time is to refer to two or three problems which affect my constituency. The first has to do with the foreign exchange control board, and I am glad the Minister of Finance (Mr. Abbott) is in his seat. The second concerns a widow and her child, whose husband and father was killed in action in world war II. The third is the problem of the student veterans attending Queen's and other Canadian universities.
My first reference is to a seizure of $30 in United States funds, and my plea is on behalf of a young lady, Miss Renaud, who is employed at the aluminum company at Kingston. This lady was proceeding to Watertown, in company with two other ladies, on Sunday, July 27, 1947, to visit relatives. The other two ladies had gone to the bank on Saturday to obtain the necessary funds, and there they were supplied with the money and the forms. Miss Renaud had, over a period of time, accumulated an amount of $40 in United States funds, and therefore knew of no reason to go to the bank. When they arrived at the customs at Lansdowne, at the Ivy Lea bridge, the officials on duty asked what amount of currency these ladies were carrying. The other two had the form H, which they produced, while Miss Renaud voluntarily declared that she had $40 in United States money and $5 in Canadian funds.
What happened? She was astonished to learn that she could take with her only $10 in United States currency and $5 in Canadian money, since she did not possess a form H. This was something she had not known at all, and $30 in American money was taken from her. In passing I may say that she is only one of the many who, through lack of knowledge of the foreign exchange control regulations, have suffered monetary losses. She proceeded on her way with her friends, with a total of only $15 in money. On her return a couple of days later she asked for the $30 in American funds which had been left at the customs, and to her surprise was told that it had been confiscated and sent to Ottawa.
The Address-Mr. Kidd
As one who has lived along the border and who has been dealing with customs officials for over twenty-five years, I cannot speak too highly of the older officials, who are courteous and gentlemanly in meeting the public. Many are veterans of the first world war who entered the revenue department with the intention of making it their lifework. These officials now are asked to do a rather distasteful job for the foreign exchange control board, and are given no option in the matter. In order to keep up with the extra work caused by these erratic controls the Minister of National Revenue (Mr. McCann) has been obliged to increase the staff by many hundreds. These orders were put through so fast that there was no time to train the new staff, and as a result the public were confronted with personnel untrained and unfitted to perform duties which require great tact and courtesy. Many of these new officials considered that they had to be a little overzealous and superior in order to have their services recognized and retain their positions.
This loss of $30 by Miss Renaud meant a great deal to her. Friends acting on her behalf came to interview me, and since it comes under his department I wrote to the Minister of National Revenue under date of December 10, 1947. He replied on December 12, stating:
This is a matter over which I have no jurisdiction whatsoever. Our customs officers at border points in enforcing the foreign exchange regulations do so on behalf of the foreign exchange control board and report to them direct. The best I can do under the circumstances is to see that your representations are brought to the attention of the board. I am, therefore, passing your communication to the secretary, Mr. R. H. Tarr.
I then wrote a letter to the Minister of Finance, who confirmed the stand taken by the foreign exchange control board, stating that a great deal of publicity had been given to the requirements at the time. The foreign exchange control board also advised that the Minister of Finance made a statement on May 26, 1947, which was given wide publicity in the daily press and over the radio.
What are the facts? In the first place, order in council P.C. 2045 was passed on May 23, 1947. That was a Friday, and at that time the house was in session. No announcement was made in the house on either Thursday, Friday or Monday by the minister. Instead, he went on the air and made a statement. On Tuesday, May 27, four days later, as the result of a question asked by a member of this house at page 3465 of Hansard for that year, it leaked out that the regulations had been changed. At this point I want to take issue with the minister on his method of procedure. Once more we find that a confidential order in council was


Mr. Martin:: Is the hon. member against family allowances?


Thomas Ashmore Kidd: No. This is a boy over sixteen. The Minister of National Health and Welfare is spending his time with a commission to deal with the high cost of living, when his time would be better spent in forming a commission to see that the taxpayers' money is

The Address-Mr. Kidd equitably distributed to those who are deserving and are justly entitled to it. I mean every word of that. I think the time has come for a check-up on the Canadian pension board. Some of the older members mean well, but they are in a rut and it is time they got out of it. When dealing with the veteran cases, the benefit of the doubt should go to the dependent or to the returned soldier.
If the Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent) were in his seat, I would say this to him. But as he is not, I would say to the acting leader of the house that I think the time has come when the Prime Minister should get the Minister of Veterans Affairs (Mr. Gregg), the Minister of National Defence (Mr. Claxton) and the Minister of National Health and Welfare (Mr. Martin) together and deal with cases like this. There is no co-ordination. Everyone seems to be running his own department. The result is that the widow in this case suffers.


Paul Joseph James Martin: What about the government in the province?


Thomas Ashmore Kidd: I will tell the minister this. If anything happened to that mother today, the public trustee would take this child and look after it. That is their responsibility. This is really the responsibility of the Minister of National Defence. He was the O.C. of this man when he went overseas. The man was killed in action. It should not be for me, as a member of parliament, to fight this case. It is the responsibility of the Minister of National Defence under whom this man served. It is up to him to see that the men who served under him, and their dependents, are properly cared for.


Mr. Claxton:: That is a matter for the pension commission, not for the Department of National Defence.


Thomas Ashmore Kidd: I would point out to the minister that appeals for men are being made. The department is going on the air, over the radio, and advertising. When a dependent of a boy who was killed overseas is refused assistance by a responsible minister of the crown, and when his dependents are not cared for, it is easily seen how this report spreads. It is doing the minister an injustice. This boy should be cared for.


Brooke Claxton: It is doing me an injustice to say that I am responsible.


Thomas Ashmore Kidd: I should like to make reference to the problem of the student veterans who are at present attending Queen's university and other universities in Canada.
The fourth annual national conference of student veterans was held on December 28, 29 and 30 last at Queen's university. Some

50 or 60 student veterans representing various universities across Canada attended. I had the honour to be present at their meetings.
A student veteran who fails to get a B average in the final examination of the year is cut off from the D.V.A. allowances of approximately $60, $90, $108 and so on a month, and therefore is automatically ineligible for assistance from the veterans university loan fund. This loan fund is one allowing every student on D. V. A. to borrow a maximum of $500 per annum or a total of $2,000 during his course. The loan is interest-free up to the January following graduation, and bears interest of five per cent per annum thereafter. The conditions for borrowing are as follows:
(a)	That need be proven.
(b)	That the student shall have completed successfully one year of university.
(c)	That the student in the opinion of the university loan board be of a responsible financial character.
(d)	That the student be still on the D.V.A. allowance.
A student veteran who fails to gain a B average, and who rewrites his examinations, is able to go back to the university and continue his studies, but he is not eligible for the D.V.A. allowance or the loan fund. At the present time there are 102 student veterans, out of a total student veteran population of 1,189, or roughly ten per cent, at Queen's university who have been cut off from both their allowance and the loan fund.
In some cases where the Department of Veterans Affairs has cut off the allowance of the student veteran, the university has come to his rescue by giving him a small loan from the university fund. The investment of the government in the education of veterans and the achievement of a higher standard of education in Canada will be jeopardized if student veterans are forced to discontinue their studies because of inadequate grants. A student veteran who is taking the course in medicine needs further assistance by the D.V.A. This is a six-year course, and the D.V.A. allowance does not cover this period of time.
These claims have already been brought to the attention of the Minister of Veterans Affairs by the national council of student veterans, and it was also their intention to bring them before the committee on veterans affairs; but the minister stated that he was doubtful whether a parliamentary committee on veterans affairs would be appointed by parliament this year. To the minister I recommend that this committee be set up. This matter has already been brought to his attention by the hon. member for Vancouver South (Mr. Green).

The case to which I have already made reference is not an isolated one. I wish to refer to another. We as members of parliament get the borderline cases. Here is another borderline case. I think these things should not happen at all. I should like to bring to your attention the case of a veteran of world war I, that of Private R. A. Baines, regimental number 814552, who enlisted with the 87th battalion on December 10, 1915, and was discharged in 1918 with a five per cent pension.
Mr. Baines was employed by the corporation of the city of Kingston. In July, 1947, Mr. Baines had a medical check-up by his family doctor; and he and his family were shocked to learn that he was in the advanced stage of T.B. His many friends naturally thought he would be taken into the D.V.A. hospital in Kingston. The D.V.A. hospital at that time had over one hundred T.B. cases and thirty-five to forty empty beds. When application was made for admission to this hospital, he was immediately refused on the ground that his discharge documents did not show T.B.
The medical health officer of Kingston found out that it might be possible to provide accommodation for Mr. Baines at the Kingston General hospital. This hospital is one of the finest 500-bed hospitals in Canada. At this time they had a section for some twenty-five or thirty T.B. patients, but it was filled and had a waiting list. Nevertheless the staff at the Kingston General hospital were prepared to provide accommodation for this man. The medical health officer thought it best for Mr. Baines to be placed in a T.B. hospital and endeavoured to have him sent to the Ontario T.B. hospital at Hamilton, but they were filled to overflowing and had quite a long waiting list. Finally, accommodation was provided for him at the Ontario T.B. hospital at Windsor, on July 19, 1947.
On July 21, 1947, the vice-president and secretary of the Canadian legion No. 9, Kingston, of which Mr. Baines was president, wrote to the Minister of Veterans Affairs, requesting permission be granted Mr. Baines for accommodation in the D.V.A. hospital at Kingston. I followed their letter up on July 23, 1947, with a letter to the Minister of Veterans Affairs.
In order for Mr. Baines to be near his family he was moved from the Windsor T.B. hospital and to the Kingston General hospital in January 1948. He was only there a few days when he died. The treatment received by this veteran of world war I was not good enough. This man was gassed in world war I, and there is no mistake his condition was due to war service. His widow, who is
The Address-Mr. Kidd not receiving a pension, should be receiving one. I respectfully request the Minister of Veterans Affairs to have this case looked into.
Here is the point I wish to make. We have a government hospital administered by the D.V.A., which has twenty or thirty empty beds. Here is a D.V.A. patient of world war I, but they will not let him enter that hospital because when they looked up his records they found no record of tuberculosis in his file. Who is responsible for it? Who is willing to take charge? The civil hospitals -the provincial hospitals at Hamilton and Windsor-were willing to take charge, which shows the weakness of the present set-up. These are borderline cases. I know that every hon. member gets these borderline cases, and they should be looked into.
The case of a nurse was brought to my attention. Again, the benefit of the doubt clause goes to the department or the government instead of the veteran. This nurse was taken on as A category in world war II and had two years' service. She was discharged as C category, with a 60 per cent pension. She was actually discharged with a 100 per cent disability due to a coronary heart condition, and is no longer able to carry on her duties in her profession. The pension board decided that her condition was a pre-enlistment one, and was aggravated by service.
The point I would like to bring out is this: Why was this nurse taken on as A category and continued to be in this category for one month, six months, twelve months, and even two years, but on her discharge was classed as a C category?
I am afraid that some of the junior medical officers who desire to remain in the service cater to the whims of the department and are not giving the breaks or the benefit of the doubt clause to the veterans.


Mr. Low:: Mr. Speaker, since it is now six o'clock, I move the adjournment of the debate.
On motion of Mr. Low the debate was adjourned.


[Stage Direction]
At six o'clock the house adjourned, without question put, pursuant to standing order.

Orders in Council

[Stage Direction]
(See page 1291 this issue)
Summary of first hundred orders in council and treasury board minutes passed after July 1, 1948
Subject
Part IV of National Housing Act brought into force in British Columbia
province	
Shipping Act regulations for the protection of workers employed in
loading and unloading ships	
Immigration regulations amended re possession of travel document....
New Brunswick special fishery regulations amended	
Veterans Land Act-sales of lands	
Appointments, etc., in the Canadian army	
Contract for reconditioning, etc., of Wasp aero engines	
Purchase Centaurus engine spares	
Contract for modification of Sea Fury aircraft	
Purchase steel drums for oil storage northern ionospheric stations..
Purchase housing accommodation for Port Harrison radio station	
London, Ont., airport instrument landing facilities; purchase cable.
Pennfield Ridge, N.B., aerodrome development, contract	
Fort William, Ont., Lake head airport development, contract	
Port Hardy, B.C., airport; alterations to buildings	
Regina, Sask., airport runway repairs, contract	
Wiarton, Ont., airport; settlement for lands required as road allowance..
Dauphin, Man., aerodrome; lease portion to town of	
Ottawa, Ont., airport control bldg, refund to Trans-Canada Air Lines re
space not used	
Fort McMurray, Alta., sale electrical energy to Canadian Pacific Air
Lines	
Hay River, N.W.T., sale electrical energy to Canadian Pacific Air Lines.. Embarras, Alta., sale electrical energy to Canadian Pacific Air Lines....
Canal, Welland ship; sale of reserve lands	
Megantic, P.Q., aerodrome development; contract	
National Housing Act, 1944-loan to Senior Citizens Homes Ass'n	
Lethbridge, Alta., Canadian government elevator; purchase flax cleaners
for	
Purchase chaplain equipment	
Contract for reconditioning and reduction to spares of aircraft instruments	
Contract for reconditioning and reduction to spares of Wasp aero
engines, etc	[DOT]
Petawawa, Ont., military camp, purchase concrete pipe for	
Lachine, P.Q., R.C.A.F. station married quarters	
Purchase fuel for the army, Kingston	
Purchase fuel oil	
Purchase North Star aircraft spares	
Electricity Inspection Act, Gas Inspection Act-amendment P.C. 1263,
8-4-48 re verification of meters	
Canadian Commercial Corporation bylaw re signing cheques London,
England, branch	
Vice Consul of Canada at Chicago, 111., app't C. H. West	
'Proclamation only gazetted. tPublished in Canada Gazette under "appointments".
Tabled Gazetted
....	Yes*
____	Yes
____	Yes
....	Yes
....	Yes
Yes
Yest
[Stage Direction]
Orders in Council
Subject	Tabled
Customs Tariff treatment, limestone	
Montreal, P.Q., electrical fixtures installation in 10 Notre Dame E.,
payment Ludger Charpentier for	
Toronto, Ont., lease accommodation 937-939 St. Clair W. from J. H.
Wood	'	
Purchase 2 mechanical refrigeration units for use in experimental cooling of railway refrigerator cars	
Shipping-consolidation of regulations relating to the examination of
engineers	  ....
Resignation of Chaplain III (P) M. G. Butler, R.C.N	
Park, national, Point Pelee; purchase bituminous road material	
Parks, national; employment Stanley Thompson to develop golf courses ________
Park, national, Jasper and Waterton lakes, fire protection; purchase
equipment	  ....
Indian agency, Hobbema, Alta., clerk's residence	
Louis Bull Indian day school, Bighorn Indian day school, established ....
Indian Surrender, Assiniboine reserve No. 76, Sask	
Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act-St. Mary river irrigation development; contract	
Winnipeg, Man., lease accommodation Columbus hall, 244 Smith St	
Pointe Basse, P.Q., breakwater wharf replacement; contract	
Anse a Brillant, P.Q., harbour improvements; purchase timber	
Purchase steamwinch for snagboat "Essington"	
Halifax, N.S., ocean terminals; lease space	in	
Amendments of KR for the army and R.C.A.F. re compliments to be
paid when the national anthem and O Canada are played	 Yes
Regulations waived to permit entry of nine (Asiatics)	
Regulations waived to permit entry of 71 immigrants	
Making available certain crown lands in the Yellowknife administrative district, Northwest Territories, for public parks and school
purposes		 Yes
British Columbia-Yukon-Northwest Territories boundary commission app't B. W. Waugh, surveyor general of dominion lands to _______________
Indian agency Restigouche, P.Q., clerk's residence construction;
contract	
Indian agency	Stikine, B.C., office bldg, construction; contract		....
Indian reserve, Thomas Point No. 5A, B.C. constituting	
Amendment of regulations for the protection of game in the Northwest Territories, establishment of a wild life preserve James
bay region	
Amendment of regulations for the management and working of the Champlain and Lome dry docks, Lauzon, P.Q. (provision for refund of fee deposited with application, when dock is not used) .... Regulations for the Government of public harbours in Canada,
consolidation	
Purchase Thermarine recorders	
Shilo camp, Man., purchase pipe and fittings for	
Port Arthur Canadian gov't elevator, reconditioning of pits; contracts .... Port Arthur Canadian gov't elevator, contract for enclosing the stair well	
Toronto, Ont., international trade fair; purchase beverage units.... ________
Toronto, Ont., international trade fair; purchase fluorescent lighting
fixtures	
Shepard, Alta., W/T Station site; sale	
Esquimalt, B.C., sale surplus lands	
War Assets Corp'n-appointment of directors of	
Toronto, Ont., Regent park area slum clearance-loan to Toronto city
under National Housing Act, 1944	-
Excess Profits Tax Act, 1940 consent to assignment to Industrial
Development Bank of refundable portion	
Boards of Trade Act-change of name of Hudson Bay Jet. Board
of Trade to Hudson Bay & District Board of Trade	
Gazetted
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes

Orders in Council
Subject	Tabled
Air Attache, Canadian Embassy Argentina-app't. G/Capt F. A.
Sampson	
Regulations waived to permit entry of fifty immigrants	
Cold storage, Winnipeg, Man., extension of time for completion		....
Cold storage, Jordan station, Ont., agreement with Vineland Growers'
Co-op., Ltd. for subsidy	
Loan-Canada savings bond series three-co-operation by members
of the public service	[DOT]___ _______
The treasury board, appointments to	
Treasury board minutes-
[Stage Direction]
Retirement of
[Stage Direction]
and
[Stage Direction]
allowance to E. W. Brett
[Stage Direction]
Retirement of
[Stage Direction]
and
[Stage Direction]
allowance to Herbert Groh
[Stage Direction]
Retirement of and allowance to J. G. Lefebvre
[Stage Direction]
Retirement of and adjusted annual allowance to A. W. MacGowan
[Stage Direction]
Allowances to widow and children of the late L. A. Jardine
[Stage Direction]
Resignation of and withdrawal allowance to J. C. Maxwell
[Stage Direction]
Retirement of and allowance to Dr. Leonard Harold Newman
[Stage Direction]
Transfer of A. J. Gates and position from national film board to
Department of Agriculture	
Changing organization of Department of Agriculture by creating three
permanent positions	
The class "Livestock products grader, grade 1" qualified by addition of
a note repayment for incidental services	
Authorizing payment of actual living expenses to J. A. Marcoux for a
three month period	!	
Construction of a house at the laboratory of botany and plant pathology,
St. Catharines, Ontario	
Grants to various colleges and universities for research projects..	....
Retirement of and allowance to Dr. H. H. Gibson	
Retirement of and allowance to Dr. F. Mathews	
Reclassification of certain positions under the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act	
Gazetted t Yes
Summary of first hundred orders in council and treasury board minutes passed after January 1st, 1949
Subject	Tabled Gazetted
$35,000,000 bond issue-Canadian National Railways		....
Loan $75,000,000; issue of treasury bills		....
Post Office air mail service, points in Northwest Territories-contract	....	____
Dredge PWD No. 305-docking and cleaning contract		....
Vocational training advisory council-appointments to		....
Leave of absence Judge Graham, Saskatchewan Court of King's Bench __________ ....
Wheatley, Ont., fishing harbour; purchase lands from Ontario province re ....	____
Loon Lake, wharf site; purchase from Ontario province		....
Gascon Ouest (Anse a la Barbe) P.Q., dredging-contract		....
Esquimalt, B.C., paving of dock	
Cantley Point (East River locks) N.S., exchange of lands with Nova
Scotia province		....
London, Ont., Westminster hospital, Nurses' Home Bldg., extras to
contract		....
Rondeau (Erieau), Ont., east pier repairs	
Thorhild, Alta., lease P.O. accommodation		....
Approval plan and site of pumphouse, etc., to be constructed in bay of
Quinte, lake Ontario		....
Loan $75,000,000; issue and sale of treasury bills		....
Purchase shirts for members of the R.C.N		....
Contract for construction of one icebreaker		....
Mont Joli, P.Q., R.C.A.F. station married quarters construction; contract ....	.
tPublished in Canada Gazette under "appointments".
1320
Orders in Council
[Stage Direction]
Subject
Purchase diesel fuel oil for Churchill, Man	
Purchase steel storage cupboards	
Purchase magnetos	
Purchase Cyclone engine spares	
Purchase dump trucks for Whitehorse, Y.T	
Purchase Lancaster aircraft ground handling equipment	
Oaths required by Civil Service Act-authorizing certain persons to
administer	
The treasury board, appointments to	
Treasury board minute-revisions in salary ranges	
Halifax, N.S., proposed office building construction	
Stonehaven, N.B., breakwater repairs	
Port Daniel, P.Q., fishing harbour construction	
Sarnia, Ont., exchange of lands as between Polymer Corporation Ltd.
and Canadian National Railways	
Welland, Ont., sale women's hostel property	
Settlement with Cranemobile, Ltd., re termination of wartime contracts
Retirement to pension AVM K. MacG. Guthrie, R.C.A.F	
Lease remote radio receiver channel from B.C. forest service, Williams
Lake, to receiving hut in Cariboo district, to B.C. government...
Earlton, Ont., aerodrome; purchase crawler type tractor for	
KR & O for the Canadian army, 1939, amended re inspection of rations..
Yarmouth, N.S., reserve force accommodation; purchase	
Halifax, N.S., Camp Hill hospital, work tables, cabinets, shelving;
contract	
Toronto, Ont., Sunnybrook Park hospital development, re-arrangement
of power lines, provision transformers, etc., contract	
Dorval, P.Q. (Montreal airport), remote receiver building at Cote St.
Remi, construction; contract	
Massett, B.C., radio range and transmitter sites; lease from Mines and
Resources Department	
Canal, Cornwall; purchase lands required for widening the prism Mille
Roches, Ont	
Dartmouth, N.S., marine depot pile wharf, repairs	
Purchase electric cargo winch for aids to navigation, Quebec, P.Q., from
Progressive Engineering Works, Ltd	
British Columbia special fishery regulations amended, trawl net fishing
continued in certain areas	
War Service Grants Act-re-establishment credit of A. Godbehere to be
available to discharge debt due the crown	
Agricultural Products Co-op. Marketing Act-payment to Maritime Fur Pool under agreement covering marketing of ranch-bred fox
pelts produced subsequent to 1-11-46	
Agincourt, Ont., lease P.O. accommodation from Roy Shadlock	
Montreal, P.Q., Queen Mary veterans hospital; final settlement with
Messrs. J. B. Becker, A. Pesner and Edw. Barkoff for lands	
St. Catharines, Ont., lease space in bldg. 33-43 Queen St., to Seymour &
Lampard	
Sutherland, Sask., forest nursery station, water supply line replacement
Chandler, P.Q., wharf extension; contract	
N.	L. Pickersgill-Ad hoc appointment to Canadian pension commission J. M. Forman-Ad hoc appointment to Canadian pension commission...
Purchase caps for issue to postmen	
Leave of absence Lt. Gov. C. A. Banks, B.C. province and app't of
an administrator	
Regina, Sask., agricultural and industrial exhibition-grant to	
Teeswater, Ont., agricultural society-grant to	
Shipping: load line rules for ships, voyages on lakes or rivers	
Shipping: load line rules for ships, international voyages	
tPublished in Canada Gazette under "appointments", t To appear in Canada Gazette of 23rd March, 1949.
Tabled
Ye
Gazetted
Yes
Yes
Yest
Yest
t Yes
t
t

Orders in Council
Subject	Tabled Gazetted
Saint John, N.B., harbour; McLeod-Pettingill wharf, shed, gallery and
gantry; extension to contract	 [DOT] [DOT] [DOT] [DOT]
Toronto, Ont., city delivery bldg, rehabilitation;	extras to contract		....
Ottawa, Ont., Departmental oipce bldg, site; settlement for lots 36 and
37 West Gainsboro Ave		[DOT] [DOT] [DOT] [DOT]
Longueuil, P.Q., post office bldg, addition; contract	
Saskatoon, Sask., federal bldg, alterations; contract		[DOT][DOT][DOT][DOT]
St. Tite, P.Q., fitting up premises for postal accommodation; payment
accounts of J. A. L'Heureux		[DOT] * [DOT] [DOT]
Timmins, Ont., lease post office accommodation from Timmins Theatres,
Ltd	
Fassett, P.Q., transfer proposed wharf site property to original donors,
Annie Corrigan heirs		....
Ottawa, Ont., Rideau Health & Occupational Centre; transfer portion
of property to federal district commission		....
Veterans Land Act regulations, amended authority to the director
to sell chattels repossessed from veterans	 Yes	Yes
Canadian Army-appointments, promotions and retirements	 t Yes
Admiralty Act, 1934-approval general order dated 7-1-49 of Exchequer
Court of Canada re appointment of Registrars	 Yes	Yes
Annuity to widow of the late Judge James Parker	
Veterans Land Act-sale of lands Jack Hassard	
Annuities-confirming for payment contract	
Red Deer, Alta, Agricultural Society-payment to	
Ottawa, Ont., airport; lease space in lean-to of Hangar H-l to Atlas
Aviation, Ltd. for office and workshop	
Ottawa, Ont., airport; lease space in lean-to of Hangar H-l to Atlas
Aviation, Ltd., for housing of aircraft	
Quesnel, B.C., airport and radio range station; purchase electrical
energy from British Columbia Power Commission	
Saint John, N.B., airport development; Municipal Spraying & Contracting Ltd	
Malton, Ont., hangar No. 1 roof repairs;	
Malton, Ont., airport, water supply;	
Milot, P.Q., lease P.O. accommodation from Jacques Tremblay	
Portneuf station, P.Q., lease P.O. accommodation from Jules Thibault ..
Treasury Board Minutes
Authority for construction of the Berry Creek irrigation district by the
Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act organization	
Exemption from section 13 of the Civil Service Act of various positions
of senior veterinarian, Grade 2	
Designating salary of L. R. Tendler, Regina, under the P.F.R. Act...
Designating salary of Harold F. Walker, Lethbridge, under the P.F.R. Act
Designating salary of Rita Moffatt, Regina, under the P.F.R. Act....
Designating salaries of three employees under the P.F.R. Act	
Designating salary of Miss R. L. Fyke, Edmonton, under the P.F.R. Act. Changing organization of Department of Agriculture-creating a permanent position of clerk Grade 3	
Changing organization of the Department of Agriculture by transferring
various positions and incumbents	
Designating salary of Dorothy Richards, Regina, under the P.F.R. Act. ..
Designating salaries of two employees under the P.F.R. Act	
Designating salary of G. C. Simpson, under the P.F.R. Act	
Designating salary of Murray Magill Wiggins, Vancouver, under
P.F.R. Act	
Designating salary of Mrs. C. Hebert, Hull, under the Agricultural
Prices Support Act	
t Published in Canada Gazette under "appointments".
1323
[Stage Direction]
Thursday, March 10, 1949