1947-05-14

Mr. SPEAKER:: I have the honour to inform the house that I have received the following communication:
Ottawa, May 13, 1947.'
Sir:
I have the honour to inform you that the Hon. Thibaudeau Rinfret, Chief Justice of Canada, acting as deputy of His Excellency the Governor
Privilege-Mr. Tucker

General, will proceed to the Senate chamber on Wednesday, May 14, at 5.45 p.m., for the purpose of giving the royal assent to certain bills.
I have the honour to be, sir,
Your obedient servant,
.	F. L. C. Pereira,
Assistant Secretary to the Governor General.



PRIVILEGE


[Stage Direction]
mail" of mat 14
Mr. W. A. TUCKER (Rosthern):: Mr. Speaker, I rise to a question of privilege. My attention has been drawn to a leading editorial appearing in the May 14 issue of the Toronto Globe and Mail, in which charges of dishonesty are made in the disposition of farm properties in British Columbia formerly occupied by persons of the Japanese race. I wish unequivocally to deny the charges which appear in this editorial.
Valuations made of these former Japanese lands were based on conditions which existed immediately prior to the outbreak of the war. The appraisals were made in the early summer months of 1942 when the war ivas at its blackest for the allied cause. No one knew at that time how long the war would last, but that these lands had any value for the reestablishment of Canadian veterans of world war II is attributable to the fact that Canada and her allies won the war, a fact which the Globe and Mail seems to ignore so far as Japanese nationals are concerned.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Order.


James Horace King: I would' ask the hon. member not to read from the editorial but just to state briefly his question of privilege.


Walter Adam Tucker: I am not reading any part of the newspaper at all. I am referring to this editorial which appeared in the Globe and Mail.


Mr. FRASER:: This matter is before a committee, Mr. Speaker.


Walter Adam Tucker: This is a question of privilege. An attack was made on the honesty of the Department of Veterans Affairs and the other ministers, and surely I am entitled, on a question of privilege, to draw attention to it.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Order.


Mr. MACKENZIE:: Hon. members opposite do not like it.
Mr. CASSELMAiN: Somebody else does not like it.


James Horace King: Hon. members know that the Speaker is responsible for seeing that the members abide by the rules. I would ask 
hon. members to allow the Speaker to do that. I suggest to the hon. member that according to the rules of the house a member speaking to a question of privilege should be as brief as possible. I would ask the hon. member to state his question of privilege and give his explanation as briefly as possible.


Walter Adam Tucker: I intend to be as brief as I possibly can, Mr. Speaker, and at the same time make my meaning plain. I will say this. I have been assured by the director under the Veterans' Land Act that all former Japanese lands acquired by him and sold to veterans have been sold at sufficient only to cover their actual cost to him. No profit whatever has been made by the Veterans' Land Act administration on the transactions. There are no grounds for the suggestion in the editorial that the lands were resold to the veterans by the Veterans' Land Act administration at "vastly increased amounts". No evidence was submitted to the public accounts committee to this effect, and I protest against such a baseless accusation being made. The facts surrounding the purchase of these lands from the official custodian and their resale to veterans are readily available to the public accounts committee.


Mr. FLEMING:: I rise to a point of order, Mr. Speaker. The matters to which the hon. member is referring are matters which at present are being reviewed by the standing committee on public accounts.


Ian Alistair Mackenzie: That is quite right.


Donald Methuen Fleming: The evidence has not been completed. The hon. gentleman is referring to something that will have to come before the committee in the way of evidence, probably next week. The statement the hon. member is making now is evidence which should be given before the committee.


Walter Adam Tucker: Well, Mr. Speaker, may I proceed with my statement?


Some hon. MEMBERS:: No.


James Horace King: Order. I would ask hon. members to remain silent. They will realize that the hon. gentleman who has the floor is referring to an article which appeared in a newspaper and which apparently contained statements which are contrary to the facts.
I believe it is in the interests of the public, and particularly in the interests of the veterans, to know exactly what the administration intends to do. So I believe it is in the best interests of all that the hon. gentleman be permitted to make his statement.

Questions


Walter Adam Tucker: The facts surrounding the purchase of these lands from the official custodian and their resale to veterans are readily available to the public accounts committee, and the Department of Veterans Affairs would welcome the most searching inquiry. Until this has been done I suggest that in fairness to the public servants involved no such charges, impugning the fairness and honesty of those public servants, should have been given such wide publicity.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Order.
Right Hon. IAN A. MACKENZIE (Minister of Veterans Affairs): Seeing that I was personally attacked this morning in the editorial in question in the Toronto Globe and, Mail, I think it is my right as a member of this free and unfettered parliament to rise on a question of privilege. I intend, sir, to ask the standing committee on public accounts which is now investigating questions having to do with the administration of the custodian of alien enemy property, to subpoena C. George McCullagh, the editor of the Toronto Globe and Mail, to substantiate if he can- and he cannot-the vile, foul, malicious, meretricious statements contained in that editorial.


Mr. A. L. SMITH (Calgary West):: I also rise to a question of privilege, speaking as a member of the public accounts committee, to inform hon. members of this house that under the able chairmanship of the hon. member for Halifax (Mr. Isnor) that committee is quite capable of carrying on its affairs without direction from the minister or his loquacious assistant.


Ian Alistair Mackenzie: My hon. friend apparently is unacquainted with the rules of parliament, which provide that any member of the commons, private member or minister, has the right to appear before any standing committee of this house and make an appeal to that committee, because a committee is only the creature and servant of parliament; and the committee then decides.


Arthur Leroy Smith: Then appear before the committee and make application; we will hear you.



IMMIGRATION


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. T. L. CHURCH (Broadview):: Mr. Speaker, I wish to call attention to an editorial in the Woodstock Sentinel Review of May 6, attributing to me statements about Polish soldiers which I denied two days afterwards in a statement to the house. I was complaining about the lack of shipping and the abuses of priority shipping to the exclusion of British born. I have been a friend of the Polish nation. What I said is borne out by evidence before the labour and immigration committee of the other house on May 6.



REPORT OF COMMITTEE

[Stage Direction]
Second report of standing committee on standing orders-Mr. Bertrand (Prescott).

[Stage Direction]
(Questions answered orally are indicated by an asterisk).

Mr. MACDONNELL (Muskoka-Ontario):: 1.	What were the amounts of treasury bills
issued by the following provinces and held by the dominion of Canada on December 31, 1946: British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan,, Manitoba?	.
2.	What amounts of treasury bills issued by the following provinces and held by the dominion of Canada have been cancelled and forgiven by the dominion subsequent to December 31, 1946: British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba?
3.	What were the rates of interest on the treasury bills cancelled and forgiven and w'as any accrued interest cancelled and forgiven. If so, give the amounts forgiven to each province?
4.	What amounts of treasury bills have been accepted as refunding from the undermentioned provinces, giving particulars: (a) refunded over a term of years without interest; (b) refunded over a term of years with interest, giving the rates of interest on the latter; (b) charged by the dominion government to each of the provinces, British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba?
5.	Were any treasury bills issued by any of the undermentioned provinces and held by the dominion of Canada, cancelled and forgiven? If so. give full particulars as to Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island?


Mr. MAYHEW:: 1.	British Columbia-Loans under relief acts, $34,112,249.99.
Alberta-Loans under relief acts, $25,862,000; subsidy overpayment, $350,000; total, $26,212,000.
Saskatchewan-Loans under relief acts, $70,668,403.20; loans under Saskatchewan seed grain loans guarantee act 1936, $2,637,398.15; loans under seed grain loans act 1937, $7,136,051.09; loans under seed grain loans guarantee act 1938, $10,605,541.48; loans under war appropriation act re Saskatchewan Power Commission, $34,560; total $91,081,953.92.
Manitoba-Loans under relief acts, $24,734,451.82.
Questions


CANADIAN REPRESENTATIVE TO THE VATICAN
Mr. CAOUETTE:: 1.	Has the government reached a decision regarding the appointment of a Canadian representative to the Vatican?
2.	If so, what is such decision?
Mr. ST. LAURENT:
1.	No.
2.	Answered by No. 1.


WORLD WAR II-CANADIAN FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTIONS AND EXPENSES
Mr. NICHOLSON:: 1.	What were the total amounts made available by Canada to members of the united nations in connection with the prosecution of the war (a) as gifts; (b) as loans?
2.	What were the total expenses to Canada m connection with world war II up to March 31, 1947?


Mr. MAYHEW:: 1. Gifts
Under The War Appropriation (United Kingdom Financing) Act, 1942-
United Kingdom	$ 1,000,000,000.00
Under War Appropriation Acts-Gift of wheat to Greece	 19,382,079.19
Mutual Aid
Under War Appropriation (Mutual Aid)	Acts-
Australia	
British West Indies	
China	
France	
Greece	
India	
New Zealand	
Union of Soviet Socialist
Republics	
United Kingdom	
91.119.000.	00 5,518,000.00
26.597.000.	00
23.629.000.	00 12,000.00
18.826.000.	00 15,278,000.00
159,113,000.00
1,870,978,000.00
The above figures differ from those published in the final report of the Mutual Aid Board due to the elimination of the costs of goods on hand and declared surplus at the end of hostilities.
Loans
$700,000,000.00 to the United Kingdom under The War Appropriation (United Kingdom Financing) Act, 1942, which has been reduced by repayments to $419,822,848.83.
$10,000,000.00 to the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics under the War Appropriation Acts for the purchase of wheat, which has been reduced by repayments to $2,500,000.00. Temporary Advances
under Section 3 of Balance Outstanding War Appropriation Acts	April 30, 1947.
Belgium	S 501,006.40
Netherlands	 3,590,717.42
Union of Soviet
Socialist Republics .... 8,815,680.52
Note:	Post-war loans made under the
authority of The Export Credits Insurance Act and the United Kingdom Financial Agreement Act, 1946, and temporary advances made under the authority of section 3 of The War Appropriation Acts, and repaid, are not included.
2. It is impossible to segregate certain demobilization expenditures from war expenditures. Consequently the figures given below include expenditures made from The War Appropriation Acts, The War Expenditure and Demobilization Appropriation Acts and Demobilization and Reconversion votes in the Appropriation Acts.

Questions
Expenditures from War Appropriations
Fiscal year	1939-40	
$	118,291,022"	"	1940-41	
752,045,326"	"	1941-42	
1,339,674,152"	"	1942-43	
3,724,248,890"	"	1943-44	
4,587,023,094"	"	1944-45	
4,418,446,315
Expenditures from War Expenditure and Demobilization Appropriations
Fiscal year	1945-46	S	4,002,949,197
Expenditures from Demobilization and Reconversion Appropriations
Fiscal year	1946-47	$	1,313,188,000
(estimated)
820,255,865,996


DEPENDENTS' BOARD OP TRUSTEES-J. PEMBROKE
Mr. FRASER:: 1.	Did Mr. J. Pembroke make a tour of tbe various offices of the dependents' board of trustees since October 1, 1946?
2.	If so, what was the total cost of such trip?


Mr. LAPOINTE:: 1.	Yes, from Montreal October 14, 1946, for final meetings of regional dependents advisory (voluntary) committees at Port Arthur, Regina, Sudbury, Saskatoon, Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, Victoria, Winnipeg, Quebec, Saint John, Charlottetown, Halifax, London, Hamilton, Toronto, and Peterboro; returning to Montreal November 23, 1946, and on December 4, 1946, at Ottawa.
2.	$957.77 made-up of transportation $511.65 and travelling expenses $446.12. Mr. Pembroke, chairman of the dependents' board of trustees, is not in receipt of salary or personal remuneration.


CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY SECURITIES
Mr. KNOWLES:: 1.	What was the total value of Canadian Pacific securities of all kinds held in the United Kingdom, as at September 1, 1939?
2.	What is the total value of Canadian Pacific securities of all kinds held in the United Kingdom at the present time?
3.	Have any Canadian Pacific securities held in the United Kingdom been acquired by the government of the United Kingdom? If so, what is the value of such securities so acquired?
4.	What is the total value of Canadian Pacific securities returned to Canada from the United Kingdom since September ll, 1939?
5.	What disposition has been made of any such securities returned to Canada?
6.	Are any such securities in the possession of the Canadian government?


Robert Wellington Mayhew: 3.	Information on the ownership of Canadian Pacific securities held in the United Kingdom is not available.
4 and 5. There was no repatriation of Canadian Pacific securities by the government of Canada. The distribution of ownership of shares shows a decrease in the number of shares held in Canada since 1939 and an increase in holdings of ordinary shares in the United States. Any securities returned to Canada since then have been more than offset on balance by shares purchased in Canada by investors in the United States.
6.	None of the securities returned to Canada are in the possession of the Canadian government. However, the government continues to hold a small number of ordinary shares of the Canadian Pacific Railway Company acquired after the war of 1914-18.


DEBERT MILITARY CAMP-PROVINCIAL DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE BUILDINGS
Mr. STANFIELD:: 1.	Has the Nova Scotia provincial government leased or bought from the dominion government those buildings their department of agriculture is now using at Debert military camp? If so, on what terms?
2.	If not, are they being used gratis?


Mr. McILRAITH:: 1.	The Department of Agriculture of the government of Nova Scotia took over certain buildings at Debert Military7 Camp on August 1, 1946 on a rental basis. The amount of rent to be paid and the terms of the lease will be finally determined when the Department of Agriculture has decided exactly what buildings and services are required.
2.	Answered by 1.



QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS


Mr. NICHOLSON:: 1.	What were the total costs incurred by the federal government during the 19th parliament in connection with studying and planning a comprehensive social security programme for Canada, including expenses incurred by the committee on social security?
2.	What have been the total expenses incurred during the 20th parliament of Canada to date for studying and planning social security measures for Canada?


EVAPORATED MILK-PRICE INCREASE
Mr. DANIEL:: 1. What portion of the recent one cent per tin increase in the price of evaporated milk is to be received by the producer, the processor and the wholesaler?
[Mr. Mayhtnv./
2.	What is the same breakdown with regard to the price rise of cheese and butter.
3.	What proportion of the one and a half cent per dozen increase in the price of eggs accrues to the producer and other sections of the industry?


INTEGRATED HOUSING PLAN-ONTARIO
Mr. TIMMINS:: 1.	In what areas in Ontario are builders constructing houses under the integrated housing plan, in 1947?
2.	How many builders are operating under this plan in each said area?
3.	How many housing units under said plan are under construction in each said area?


Mr. McILRAITH:: Return tabled.



MOTION FOR PAPERS


Mr. RAYMOND (Beauharnois-Laprairie):: For a copy of all correspondence exchanged between the city of Salaberry of Yalleyfield, or city of Valleyfield, 'the mayor or any other officer of the said city and the war assets corporation, concerning the purchase or application for purchase of assets in 1944, 1945, 1946 and 1947.



HOUSING


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Right Hon. C. D. HOWE (Minister of Reconstruction and Supply):: Mr. Speaker, last Friday I advised the house that the requirement that a house be fifty per cent completed before a veteran of world war II could obtain formal priorities assistance, was being removed and that full priorities assistance would henceforth be granted.
I am now able to advise that these revised procedures are operative immediately. All veterans who come within the definition of a "veteran" established for this purpose may now make application to the priorities officer of the Department of Reconstruction and Supply for this assistance. To qualify as a "veteran" a man must have a minimum of one year's wartime service in Canada or have had overseas service or be in receipt of a war pension. Men continuing in the permanent force and who have had the required wartime service also qualify.
It will be necessary for a veteran to assure the priorities officer that he is building or will immediately' commence to build a home for his own occupancy and which he himself will own. On an application form, PB-1047, veterans will be required to give the legal description of the land on which their house will be located and to provide copies of an agreement of sale and purchase if they are not already owners of the land.

Inquiries oj the Ministry
Veterans will also be required to state in detail the building materials required for their home and priorities assistance will be extended only for the minimum quantities required to complete a reasonable type and size of house. Details concerning these new procedures are now available from offices of the priorities branch located at Vancouver, Winnipeg, Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa.
Priorities assistance extended to veterans will continue to be governed by priorities officer's order No. P.O. 11B, which order channels building materials from the actual producer, down through the various distributional levels, to the veteran's home.
It should be emphasized that the procedures I have outlined have to do only with individual veterans building single houses for their own occupancy under other than the small holdings plan of the Veterans Land Act. Priorities assistance for the construction of groups of veterans' houses will continue to be available in accordance with procedures established by Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: Would it be possible for the veterans affairs officers in the different districts to have a supply of these application forms for full priorities assistance? It is pretty hard for veterans living a long distance away to get them.


Clarence Decatur Howe: Any organization and any individual may obtain forms from the priorities offices.


Gordon Knapman Fraser: Thank you very much.



REGULATIONS WITH RESPECT TO OCCUPANCY OF DWELLING BY OWNER

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. W. EARL ROWE (Dufferin-Simcoe):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask a question of the Minister of Finance, copy of which I have forwarded to him. Will the minister advise the house if any changes are contemplated in the near future to ease rental regulations so as to permit home owners to gain occupancy of their homes in instances where they are suffering hardship under the present regulations?	.


Hon. DOUGLAS ABBOTT (Minister of Finance):: As I said in the house a week or so ago, the whole question of rental regulations is under serious study by myself and officials of the wartime prices and trade board. I am not yet in a position to make any statement as to what changes if any can be made in the regulations.



CANCELLATION OF BUILDING PROJECTS BY HOUSING ENTERPRISES LIMITED

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. DAVID A. CROLL (Spadina): Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask a question of the Minister of Reconstruction and Supply. The press carried reports this morning that because of the high cost of labour and materials Housing Enterprises of Canada limited has cancelled Greater Toronto building projects which would have housed about 200 veterans' families. My questions are these: First, is the government in any way a party to this decision, and, second, will this reduce the government's objective of 80,000 houses this year?
Clarence Decatur Howe: Mr. Speaker, the short answer to both questions is, no. However, having in mind the public interest in this matter, I feel that perhaps I should make a statement outlining the relationship between Housing Enterprises Limited and the government.
In the summer of 1945 conversations took place between all life insurance companies operating in Canada and the government. It was realized that there was a great need for rental housing. The government explored with the life insurance companies ways and means whereby they might enter this field. The National Housing Act provided for direct investment by the companies under section 11. The companies felt that in view of current conditions they did not care to operate individually under section 11. By a combination of sections 9 and 11 of the National Housing Act, together with subsequent amendment to the act, the life insurance companies formed a wholly owned holding company called Housing Enterprises Limited.
The life insurance companies undertook to construct rental housing for veterans through the agency of Housing Enterprises. The financial arrangement was that a 90 per cent loan for 50 years at 3 per cent was made under the terms of the National Housing Act, and Housing Enterprises invested life insurance company funds for the remaining 10 per cent. Rentals were to be established so that the life insurance companies might earn a limited dividend of 5 per cent- on their share, and the government guaranteed that they would receive at least 21 per cent on money so invested.
By September, 1945, Housing * Enterprises had formed, an organization. By early 1946 some land had been assembled upon which to erect projects. The 1946 programme of Housing Enterprises amounted to 3,276 units, most of which are at present under construction.
Inquiries of the Ministry

When awarding contracts for their 1946 programme it became evident that firm bids could not be secured except at very high levels. To meet this situation Housing Enterprises entered into an arrangement with contractors for a target price whereby any saving in the target price was divided between the contractor and Housing Enterprises. Housing Enterprises were responsible for any costs incurred in excess of the target price.
The 1946 programme is now well advanced, and it is apparent that practically every project will exceed the target price, and that correspondingly high rentals will result.
It had been originally anticipated that although projects by Housing Enterprises would not be in the really low rental field, nevertheless rentals might be of the order of $35 to S40 for a four room unit. Because of increased building costs, rentals calculated upon the formula which I have described earlier are considerably higher than was originally anticipated. Even in their 1946 programme Housing Enterprises felt that it would be extremely difficult for them to fill the need at a rental level which was originally contemplated.
Last fall Housing Enterprises accumulated land for their 1947 programme. The unsatisfactory nature of many of their 1946 cost-plus contracts made it prudent for Housing Enterprises. to require that their 1947 programme be carried out on the basis of firm bids. A firm bid has been received for some 400 units in Hamilton at a price which would result in rentals of S55, S65 and S75 for three, four and five room units respectively. Housing Enterprises feel that the purpose for which they entered the field is not being- fulfilled, and that rentals which result from such high costs are far in excess of those which the scheme envisaged. Unless it is possible for Housing Enterprises to secure considerably lower prices on other projects, they do not intend to proceed with their 1947 programme.
The government is grateful to the life insurance companies for the time and effort which they have given to the operation of Housing Enterprises. Every factor has been unfavourable towards carrying out the original intention. I know that the life insurance companies are disappointed that they have been unable to produce the low or moderate rental housing that was originally planned. Nevertheless, the government appreciates the position of the life insurance companies, and although it regrets losing a potential volume of new rental housing, nevertheless it does concur in the decision which has now been taken by them.


Donald Methuen Fleming: What will now happen to the very considerable number of houses which are under construction by Housing. Enterprises Limited? Will that programme be carried through to completion?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Yes, it is my understanding that Housing Enterprises Limited intend to complete all the projects at present under construction. My hon. friend will appreciate, of course, that Housing Enterprises Limited is a purely private project, carried out under the National Housing Act, and that any decision as to whether houses will or. will not be completed rests with the insurance companies which formed Housing Enterprises Limited.


Mr. TIMMINS:: Is there any obligation on the part of Housing Enterprises Limited, to proceed, with any of these projects they now say they intend to abandon?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I know of no obligation.


Mr. NICHOLSON:: Did the minister indicate how many units had been completed of those which were begun last year?


Clarence Decatur Howe: I gave the figure of 3,276 starts. I cannot say how many have been completed.


Alexander Malcolm Nicholson: Is there any indication of the rents which are being charged in the Toronto area?


Clarence Decatur Howe: They are too high, I may say. They are not in a class of low-rental housing.


Alexander Malcolm Nicholson: How high are they?


Clarence Decatur Howe: Probably about $45 to $55 a month.


Thomas Langton Church: What is the use of building, if you cannot pay the rent?



LABOUR CONDITIONS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. P. C. BLACK (Cumberland):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask a question of the Minister of Labour. Is he, or his colleague the Minister of Reconstruction and Supply (Mr. Howe), in a position to make a statement with regard to the progress of deliberations with respect to the settlement of the coal strike? This is of transcendient importance to all the people of Nova Scotia. I think it is in the public interest that a statement be made.


Hon. HUMPHREY MITCHELL (Minister of Labour):: As my hon. friend is aware negotiations took place in Montreal yesterday.

Inquiries of the Ministry
Conversations were held between myself and the miners' representatives this morning, and they are continuing. That is all I can say now.



EXCESS PROFITS TAX


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. ALAN COCKERAM (York South):: Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask the Minister of Finance if he made the statement attributed to him in a Canadian Press dispatch which appeared in the Montreal Gazette today, to the effect that a change in regulations will allow companies to offset excess profits by deferred maintenance payments?


Douglas Charles Abbott: My hon. friend was kind enough to give me notice of this question. I have looked at the dispatch in question, and it is entirely accurate. The paraphrasing by my hon. friend is not quite correct, but that is no fault of his. A representative of the Canadian Press asked me yesterday whether the government had decided to fix a period under the existing statute within which deferred maintenance work carried out could be charged back to excess profits taxes paid in previous years. My reply was that the matter was under consideration but that no decision had been taken.


William Earl Rowe: Arising out of the question asked by the hon. member for York South, I should like to ask the Minister of Finance if the government is adopting the practice of making important announcements to the press before they are made to parliament, especially on matters of taxation during a budget debate.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Order.


William Earl Rowe: I do not need to be called to order. When someone to your right, Mr. Speaker, asks a question, usually a minister makes a speech in reply. I think I have a perfect right to ask the question. I should like also to ask the minister if the matter which he says is under consideration has not been covered already by an order in council.


Mr. DIEFENBAKER:: 



P.C. 1502.

Douglas Charles Abbott: So far as I am aware no order in council has been passed. Replying to the first part of my hon. friend's question as to why a statement was not made in the house, may I say that Mr. Carnegie, the head of the Canadian Press in Ottawa, asked me a
simple question and I made a simple answer which I would have made to any member of the press gallery. I said that the matter which he inquired about was under consideration.


William Earl Rowe: As a member of the house I should like to ask a simple question of the minister. Was not an order in council passed on April 17 permitting deferred maintenance claims to be made against excess profits taxes? This is the matter which the minister stated was being considered.


Douglas Charles Abbott: The period of time within which deferred maintenance may be charged against excess profits taxes has not, so far as I am aware, yet been fixed by the government. The hon. member for Lake Centre sent me a note asking for information about order in council 1502. I could not recall what it was and I said I would look into it and let him know. I shall do that.


John George Diefenbaker: Would the minister mind tabling that order, P.C. 1502? It has not yet appeared in the Canada Gazette but I think it is a complete answer to the question raised by the member for York South.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I shall be very glad to do it. I think it was passed on the recommendation of the Minister of National Revenue, but I will have the information very shortly.


Douglas Charles Abbott: I wish to table order in council P.C. 1502 which was asked for this afternoon by the hon. member for Dufferin-Simcoe (Mr. Rowe) and the hon. member for Lake Centre (Mr. Diefenbaker). At the same time I confess the error of my ways. I had thought the matter was still under consideration, but I find that while I was busily engaged in the preparation of my budget, and not attending council as regularly as I might, my colleague the Minister of National Revenue (Mr. McCann) on April 17 submitted a recommendation establishing the period within which this deferred maintenance might be taken.



REPORTED SHORTAGES IN BRITISH AND UNITED STATES ZONES IN GERMANY

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. ANGUS MacINNIS (Vancouver East):: In the absence of the Prime Minister I should like to direct a question to the leader of the house. Has the government's attention been drawn to a dispatch in the Globe and Mail this
Inquiries oj the Ministry

morning, sent from London by Herbert L. Matthews, regarding the food crisis in the British zone of Germany? Reference is made also to the serious situation in the American zone and in referring to both zones the item says "they are quite simply starving". I should like to know if the Canadian government has been approached in this matter, and if there is anything it can do in a situation which has economic, political and humanitarian aspects?


Right Hon. J. G. GARDINER (Minister of Agriculture):: The leader of the house has suggested that I should answer the question which has just been asked and in reply I would say that no consideration has been given to the matter reported on in this morning's papers. However, consideration has been given on many occasions to the possibility of supplying more food for Great Britain and for the other countries which are concerned in obtaining food from Great Britain. All the food which can be accumulated under the different programmes that have been set up is being shipped mainly to Great Britain. Most of the food which we are supplying to any part of Europe is going to Great Britain. I have no doubt that the amount of food supplied by this country has some bearing upon what the British are able to do to take care of the position in Germany. With the exception of wheat, and other small exceptions, all the food supplied by this country goes to Great Britain. Wheat is divided up among the different countries, but again most of it goes to Great Britain.


Mr. COLDWELL:: That food is passed on to the British zone under British responsibility?


James Garfield Gardiner: Whatever food is passed on goes that way, except what is arranged for through the cereals committee which meets from time to time in Washington and determines what division is to be made of the different cereals. Then there is another committee which divides up the other food, and our food goes to wherever it is allotted.



SUGGESTED DIVERSION OF FREIGHT CARS FOR MOVEMENT OF WHEAT TO EUROPE

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. P. E. WRIGHT (Melfort):: Has the government given any consideration to diverting more freight cars for the movement of wheat to meet the immediate need for food in Europe which has just been outlined?


Hon. LIONEL CHEVRIER (Minister of Transport):: The movement of freight cars loaded with wheat is far better now than it 
has been at any other time. I know my colleague, the Minister of Trade and Commerce (Mr. MacKinnon), will confirm my statement when I say that within the last month or so the movement has far exceeded the priority agreed upon between the wheat board and the railways during the winter months. In fact, it is well above the 1,200 cars per day mark.



REPORTED CHANGE IN PRICE OF BACON ON BRITISH MARKET

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. K. R. DANIEL (Oxford):: I should like to ask the Minister of Agriculture what effect the recent announcement in the press in regard to the revision in the price of bacon on the British market will have on the Canadian producers of bacon?


James Garfield Gardiner: I did not read the press all through this morning so I do not know what my hon. friend is referring to.


Kenneth Roy Daniel: This morning's press carried a report that Mr. Strachey had made an announcement of a change in the price of bacon.



PUBLIC WORKS

[Stage Direction]
WHARF FACILITIES AT NORTH SYDNEY, N.S. On the orders of the day:
Mr. CLARENCE GILLIS (Cape Breton South):: I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Public Works, arising out of a telegram which I received just before coming into the house.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Oh, oh.


Clarence Gillis: When hon. members are through laughing I will continue in this free and unfettered parliament. This wire is from the president of the board of trade, an important person, in North Sydney, Nova Scotia, and it points out that the harbour facilities there are closed out because of a lack of wharfage. Can the minister tell the house when his department intends to proceed with the building of the wharf which I understand he has in mind for that particular port?


Hon. ALPHONSE FOURNIER (Minister of Public Works):: I have not received any notice of the question, because the hon. member received his telegram only a moment ago. He would not expect me to answer such a question offhand. I will take this as a notice and give the answer tomorrow.

Inquiries oj the Ministry



I. G. FARBENINDUSTRIE INDICTMENT OF OFFICIALS-STATEMENT OF SECRETARY OF STATE

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. E. G. McCULLOUGH (Assiniboia):: On March 20 I received a return in reply to this question:
Is the I. G. Farben Company or any subsidiary of such company operating in Canada?
The answer I received was no, that investigations were still proceeding. Due to press reports that twenty-four top officials of the German I.G. Farben Company have been indicted by the United States government, has the government any further information in regard to the investigations being carried on here in Canada?


Hon. COLIN GIBSON (Secretary of State):: The hon. member was good enough to send me notice of his question. In view of the widespread publicity in connection with the indictment by the United States government of twenty-four top officials of the I. G. Farben Company who were charged with plunder, spoliation and mass murder, I prepared a report which may be of interest to the house.
In the office of the custodian there are records of five patents which stood in the name of I. G. Farbenindustrie which, after the outbreak of the war, were licensed for use in Canada by the commissioner of patents under the patents, designs, copyright and trade mark (emergency) order 1939. In respect to these patents, royalties at the rate prescribed by the commissioner of patents in his licensing order have been collected by the custodian from the Canadian licensees. These royalties amount to a little over S8,000. The only Canadian company in which I. G. Farbenindustrie had any direct share interest was a company in Montreal in which I. G. Farbenindustrie owned sixteen per cent of the capital stock. The shares representing this interest were reported to the custodian by the company and vested in the custodian under the regulations.
There was also reported to the custodian * a contract between a Canadian company and t. G. Farbenindustrie relating to the use of trade marks and technical assistance. All payments under this contract have been made by the Canadian company to the custodian. In this connection it my be stated that a company incorporated in the United States has laid claim to the amounts realized in relation to this contract by virtue of an alleged assignment from I. G. Farbenindustrie
to the American corporation. This claim, however, has not been recognized by the custodian.
My department has not yet an official copy of the recent indictment preferred by the United States against twenty-four senior officials of I. G. Farbenindustrie. The New York Times of May 4, 1947, published extracts and summaries from the indictment. Reference is made in the indictment to cartel agreements with more than 2,000 major industrial concerns in the United States, Great Britain, France, Norway, Belgium, the Netherlands and Poland. The second count of the indictment, relating to plunder and spoliation, mentions the countries involved as Australia, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Britain, France, Denmark, Norway, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Yugoslavia, Greece, the Soviet Union and the United States.
The head office of the I. G. Farbenindustrie at Frankfurt is in the American zone of occupation and it may be inferred that the indictments were prepared after examination of the records available at the headquarters of I. G. Farbenindustrie. It will be observed that in neither count of the indictment ,is there mention of relations with firms or industries in Canada. The Canadian government is keeping in close touch with the situation as it develops but has no evidence suggesting any Canadian firm or company has failed to make disclosure of any contracts with I. G. Farbenindustrie, nor is there any evidence that I. G. Farbenindustrie had anything which could be described as an affiliated or subsidiary enterprise or company in Canada.



UNITED NATIONS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. VICTOR QUELCH (Acadia):: Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Finance tell the house when he will be in a position to table the reports of the International Monetary Fund and the International Bank of Reconstruction?


Douglas Charles Abbott: I cannot say, but they will be tabled as soon as they are available.
(Translation):



GALLERIES OF THE HOUSE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. G. A. CRUICICSHANK (Fraser Valley) :: Mr. Speaker, like the hon. member
for Cape Breton South (Mr. Gillis) I have
The Budget-Mr. Benidickson

just received a telegram: Is a member permitted to occupy a seat in the gallery reserved for senators?
(Text):
In case the minister concerned did not understand, I should like to ask this question arising out of several telegrams I have received, like the hon. member for Cape Breton South, just before entering the house: Has a member of parliament the right to sit in the senate gallery?



WORLD TRADE CONFERENCE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. J. H. BLACKMORE (Lethbridge):: May I direct a question to the Secretary of State for External Affairs? Is the minister in a position to give the house any report concerning the proceedings of the international trade conference at Geneva?
Right Hon. L. S. ST. LAURENT (Secretary of State for External Affairs): No, Mr. Speaker. All I can say is that the conference is still proceeding. It has not broken down, and while it proceeds there is hope for its success.



THE BUDGET


[Stage Direction]
The house resumed from Tuesday, May 13, consideration of the motion of Hon. Douglas Abbott (Minister of Finance) that Mr. Speaker do now leave the chair for the house to go into committee of ways and means, and the amendment thereto of Mr. Macdonnell (Muskoka-Ontario), and the amendment to the amendment of Mr. Coldwell.
(Translation):
Mr. W. M. BENIDICKSON (Kenora-Rainy River):: Mr. Speaker, may I at the
beginning of my remarks say a few words in the beautiful French language, to congratulate my hon. colleagues who have already given the house and the country a fine example the Canadian parliament. That example should be followed in all sections of the country. I hope to improve my command of French, so that some day I may speak at greater length in that language during our debates.
(Text):


Arthur Leroy Smith: Does the hon. member take his French lessons from the same person who teaches the hon. member for Fraser Valley (Mr. Cruickshank) ?
(Translation):


William Moore Benidickson: There takes place during the summer holidays, an exchange of

students desirous of learning both our official languages. Students from Ontario register at various centres in the province of Quebec, while those from Quebec study English under highly qualified teachers.
It is perhaps the best means to know and to appreciate one another. That degree of national unity so much sought after, I am sure, by all Canadians will be attained more readily and more rapidly, because the knowledge of both languages will promote better understanding between the two groups.
And now, with your permission, Mr. Speaker, I shall continue my remarks in my mother tongue.
(Text):
We are now discussing the admirable budget of the Minister of Finance (Mr. Abbott), a budget which has brought a considerable reduction in taxation to a substantial number of our taxpayers, and we are faced with amendments by both opposition parties. I propose to deal this afternoon with two sections of the amendment of the Conservative party.
In his amendment the financial critic of the Conservative party said:
This house regrets that the proposals of the Minister of Finance
(b) offer no encouragement to those engaged in the development of our natural resources, especially mining and agriculture . . .
I shall deal with the subject of agriculture, but I do wish to say something about the record of this government with respect to mining, and the record of the official opposition when they had the chance to administer the affairs of the country. I shall deal also with that section of the opposition's amendment which regretted that there was failure to provide for reconvening the dominion-provincial conference in order to complete satisfactory agreements with the provinces and a dominion-provincial programme of social security, health and public investment.
I think it will be admitted on all sides that mining has certainly been a war victim. The gold mining industry, particularly during the war years, had to take second place to almost every other industry in this country. Now that the war is over, every possible encouragement that can be given to that industry must be given to it, because there is hardly any enterprise which does not receive considerable benefit from the production of our gold mines. Transportation, industry, agriculture, forestry, professional and trained personnel all derive great benefit from the production of gold in this country. Then, an exporting country surely must be thinking in terms of its exchange policy.

The Budget-Mr. Benidickson
Something has been said by the official opposition on the question of parity, which is not in the budget resolutions this year, but which is very much in the thinking of anybody interested in the gold mining industry. Those of us who represent constituencies in which the production of gold is an important factor have, I want to assure you, Mr. Speaker, not been inactive in presenting the point of view of that industry with respect to parity. We also welcome the support in any representations of that kind which we have been receiving from several hon. members of the opposition. If I were to single out individuals I would certainly make reference to the hon. member for York South (Mr. Cockeram) who spoke yesterday, and I hope we shall again hear some words of encouragement for the gold industry from the hon. member for York West (Mr. Adamson). However, practically all the constituencies in which gold mining is an important factor are represented on this side. I want to assure that industry that these members, the hon. member for Chapleau (Mr. Gourd), the hon. member for Nipissing (Mr. Gauthier), the hon. member for Timiskaming (Mr. Little), the hon. member for Port Arthur (Mr. Howe), the hon. member for Fort William (Mr. Mclvor), and so on, have been by no means backward in informing the Minister of Finance as to the desires of this industry in the matter of parity and everything else.
In the course of the debate there were references to the budget not saying anything about encouragement for mining. One of the reasons that the budget has no reference to the gold mining industry particularly is that, as a result of representations made to the Minister of Finance long in advance of the budget announcement, he was good enough to introduce a change in the depletion and depreciation allowances, which have been a decided boon to the mining industry. I wish to say that it is fortunate the minister made his announcement in March instead of holding it back until a later date; some of the mines might have been discouraged and might not have gone ahead with their development programme if the announcement had been deferred to this day.
I read carefully the remarks made by the financial critic of the official opposition. As all hon. members know, he spoke at considerable length, but only four or five lines of his remarks dealt with the matter of mining. In spite of that he thought that industry worthy of a particular clause in his amendment. All he had to say was this; he was very cagey:
I wish to make one other comment of a much more serious nature, ... As far as I could judge on first hearing, it seemed to me there was no beginning to deal with the situation in regard to the gold industry which is so vital in that all important aspect of our business relations, namely, exchange with the United States.
That is all he said on the subject that day. As hon. members know, adjournment of the debate took place; he had an opportunity for further consideration and continued his remarks almost a week later. But when I read the continuation of his contribution to the debate-and as I pointed out he thought that amendment was sufficiently important for him to use it as a reason for saying that we should not go into committee of supply in order to progress in the matter of completing these tax reductions-


Mr. KNOWLES:: Ways and means.


William Moore Benidickson: -I find that the hon. member for Muskoka-Ontario (Mr. Macdonnell) who, as we know, in this playtime or make-believe cabinet of the official opposition is supposed to be the pretender to the ministry of finance, said at page 2803 of Hansard as follows, and I want the people interested in gold mining to pay particular attention to it, particularly the Northern Miner of Toronto.
Finally, I was disturbed with a remark which is attributed in the press to the governor of the Hank of Canada. I want to be very careful on this because it was only in the press and I think it may have been an offhand remark.
I would not take it too seriously, but the governor was quoted as saying that it would be to our advantage-this is in connection with the whole question of exchange-if the price of gold were increased in the United States.
I pause in that quotation to remind the house that I can think of nothing which would be of greater benefit to the gold mining industry than an increase in the price of gold by the United States, which is probably the only country in the world in a position economically to make such an increase. I continue with the quotation from the speech of the financial critic of the official opposition:
That disturbed me very much because, I suppose, there could not be a more inflationary measure and because it seemed to me that i'f that was the only way, or was one of the serious ways, which the government regarded as a possibility of dealing with this thing, or of finding a way out, then it seemed to me the matter was not being dealt with as it should.
He concluded by saying:
Of course we all know that the final solution of exchange is trade . . .
That, of course, is good Liberal doctrine. I am hoping that in the course of the debate not only shall we hear words of encourage-

The Budget-Mr. Benidickson

ment for the gold mining industry from the hon. member for York South (Mr. Cockeram) and the hon. member for York West (Mr. Adamson), as we have been led to expect, but the leader of that party, who apparently saw fit to place the question of mining in an important amendment, will have something to say which is not evasive and not on the fence with respect to their attitude to parity and particularly with respect to their attitude to this question. Does he agree with the financial critic that it would be a bad thing if the United States raised the price of gold? I am hoping that the leader of the opposition (Mr. Bracken) himself will have something to say on this.


Mr. SKEY:: How about the leader of the government?


William Moore Benidickson: We stand on our record, may I say to my hon. friend. I am going to speak of that and I am going to speak of my hon. friend's record the last time his friends were given the opportunity of saying what they would do with respect to the gold mining industry.
However I do not expect a great deal from the leader of the opposition in the matter of a firm statement, because on this issue, as on most issues, to use the wording of one newspaper, he will probably "take refuge in the calculated obscurity of ambiguous silence."


Stanley Howard Knowles: Say that in French.


Mr. IRVINE:: He might as well.


William Moore Benidickson: What is the comparative record of the party in official opposition and the government with respect to their attitude toward the gold mining industry? When that party now in official opposition had an opportunity to show their affection and keen interest in the gold mining industry between 1930 and 1935, what happened? When they took office, the government of 1929 had left them regulations under which there was a fifty per cent depletion allowance for the gold mining industry and a 33J per cent depletion allowance with respect to base metals. The same depletion allowances were available for dividends from those industries. What happened? In five years in office they reduced the depletion allowances to 33J per cent and they reduced the depletion allowances with respect to dividends to twenty per cent. In addition to that, I think the most uneconomic and most vicious tax that was ever imposed on the gold mining industry was imposed by the Conservative government in 1934. It was known as the bullion tax. In 1936, after they were swept out of office- and I think northern Ontario helped in the

sweeping-the Liberal government introduced an important tax concession with respect to gold mining and that was an exemption from tax for three years for new producers. That was a Liberal measure. In addition, there was recognition that a certain period of time was necessary for what the industry calls "tuning-up", getting the machinery going, when a great deal of ore which clings to the machinery and so on is used. That amounts, on an average, to about half a year. So that a decided encouragement was given to the industry. For practically three and a half years a new mine was exempt from taxation.
I also want to point out that there is on the gold mining industry no tax, federally, which is not paid by any other industry in the country. However, that is not true of the administration of our hon. friends in the provincial sphere. In this amendment they are criticizing the government today for failure to give further encouragement to the gold mining industry. When there is only one Conservative government in the whole country, what has that government done? In the last budget it introduced the three per cent tax, the new mining tax of Ontario on gold mines. In addition to that, it eliminated the depletion allowance. I think we can only judge our hon. friends by what they do when they are given an opportunity to administer the laws of the country.
On the other hand, what is the record of this government? The depletion allowance, which I have said was reduced by the Conservative government from 50 per cent to 33J per cent, was this year increased to 40 per cent. In addition to that, there was a per ounce depletion allowance of $4, which means that any mine whose margin of profit is less than $10 receives a better arrangement under that $4 proposition than it does under the 40 per cent one. The result is that, instead of some mines having a depletion allowance of 33J per cent, as they had under the Conservative regime, they have a depletion allowance of 100 per cent in some instances, and 80 per cent in others. This is a decided benefit to the marginal mine.
That, Mr. Speaker, is the reference I propose to make with respect to the inadequacy of an amendment from the official opposition when it comes to the gold mining industry. I think the proof of the appreciation which that industry has for its good friends is in the representation in this house, in that the official opposition is not represented in any part of the country where gold mining is a major factor in the constituency itself.
I propose now to deal with the matter of dominion-provincial relations, another instance in which the official opposition thinks its

The Budget-Mr. Benidickson
resolution should be carried. If that resolution were carried it would mean we would not proceed with the reductions in taxation proposed by the Minister of Finance; and I do not think there is any question that the governor general would consider Mr. Bracken unable to carry on the administration, so that we would have an election.
What is the basis of this amendment? I am going to endeavour to show the house that there seems to be a lack of conviction on the part of the official opposition with respect to dominion-provincial policy, if we go back and look at the policies supported by the leaders in this particular field at a time when they were perhaps not as prejudiced as they might be now, having political motives for presenting an amendment of this kind. First of all, I want to deal with the record of the leader of the official opposition (Mr. Bracken), which I may know perhaps better than most of those now sitting behind him because I came from the province of Manitoba and at one time endeavoured to assist the hon. gentleman in attaining his political desires. Based on fifteen or twenty years of experience with him, I am probably in a position to know as much about his attitude toward dominion-provincial affairs as almost anyone sitting behind him in this parliament. I should like, then, to give just a few extracts to show the attitude taken by the hon. gentleman in 1941, when a somewhat similar situation existed to that which has developed in the last year or so. In 1941, with the war in progress, and so on, there was a desire to have some unification of the taxation proposals in certain fields. As you know, Mr. Speaker, there were great difficulties with certain provinces. I will give the leader of the opposition his due and say that at that conference he represented a province which was prepared to go along with the proposals advanced by the administration which was in charge of the war effort; but there were others who did not see it in that light, and the situation existing today is parallel to the situation in 1941. After that abortive conference, the present leader of the opposition went back to Winnipeg and as premier of the province of Manitoba went on the radio and had this to say-


Mr. COTE (Matapedia-Matane):: As the Tory leader?


William Moore Benidickson: No; at that time he was a Liberal Progressive. He said:
Two weeks ago tomorrow in the city of Ottawa the dominion-provincial conference which was called to consider the Sirois report, was wrecked.
He then went on to deal with the investigation which had been made by that commission, 83166-1974
the reasons for calling the conference, and. so on, and went on to say that there could be no just settlement of the problem without strengthening the powers of the dominion and that to do so, far from weakening, would actually buttress provincial autonomy. Then I have some further extracts. He said if they failed even to make agreements with those provinces that were willing, that the dominion in those circumstances-no; there were no qualifications; he said, "under any circumstances".
Failing the consent of all the provinces, should the dominion enter into agreements with such of them as were ready to make them, or should the dissenting provinces be conceded the right of veto?
What did the present leader of the opposition have to say in that respect? He said this:
Can we suppose that by erecting a Chinese wall around every province in Canada, by Bal-kanizing this country from coast to coast, that we would be adding to Canadian wealth or Canadian prestige or Canadian unity or making Canada a greater country than it has been in the past?
And he said:
The provincial governments are not the only governments in Canada which have a responsibility^ . . Indeed their responsibilities in this connection are of a minor character as compared with that of the dominion government.
Somebody may say that he had in mind simply the emergency of war. In that very radio speech, however, he quoted something said by the Prime Minister of this country (Mr. Mackenzie King); and when I give that quotation I think hon. members will see that he was going far beyond the necessities of the war. Again when I give this quotation hon. gentlemen will appreciate the far-sightedness of the Prime Minister, because this is what he said, as quoted by the present leader of the opposition:
The war inevitably will be followed by a period of reconstruction which will impose new obligations and burdens upon all Canadian governments . . . All I am sure will agree that the sooner we are able to make the necessary adjustments, the better equipped we will be to finance the war and to cope with post-war problems.
That is a quotation from Mr. King that Mr. Bracken gave in Winnipeg following that conference. Then he had this to say:
Is the dominion government to be excused from the discharge of that responsibility by the fact that the premiers of three provinces walk out of a conference? ... If we are to face the post-war period with a governmental system that has proven itself incapable of dealing with the depression years, the dominion government- not certain provincial governments-must bear the responsibility.
The Budget-Mr. Benidichson


Antoine-Philéas Côté: If I may ask the hon. member a question, when this quotation was read was the leader of the opposition still the Liberal chief of the Manitoba government?


William Moore Benidickson: member for Vancouver-BurrarH (Mr. Merritt), the hon. member for Souris (Mr. Ross), and some others who come from provinces from which there is at least a semblance of Progressive Conservative representation- whether they feel that their governments, and the members they have in those governments, have sold their provinces down the river by concluding agreements with the federal government. I believe the finance minister of British Columbia is a member of the Conservative party. I want to know whether they think that either they have been neglecting their province and have made a poor agreement or that the agreement was a good one and that these agreements are robbery as far as the provinces of Ontario and Quebec are concerned. I do not think they are. I do not think the constitutional bogey is the real motivating force when it comes to the opposition which we have been getting from the chiefs of the major provinces. I believe the premier of Ontario disclosed his real objection when he said at the last conference, as reported on page 1206:
I think it will help us reach the agreement which is so essential if we realize that most of the 'beclouding difficulties which still exist between complete settlement and the position we have reached lie in the fact that we do not proceed simply to substitute for one tax agreement another tax agreement to deal with the same problem.
What has led to the increasingly wide circle of discussion has been the introduction into that relatively simple problem of a great number of projected promises in fields which were in no way directly related to the tax agreement which was coming to an end.
What was he afraid of? He was afraid of the proposals for the extension of social services. However, he had time to think about the matter; he went out to lunch; he came back and in continuing that particular speech he said:
We are now faced with the statement that it is essential for the dominion government to have very large revenues because of the undertakings they have given.
He referred to the war costs, and then he went on to say:
I would recall that in addition to these obligations created by expenditures on war itself . . . we realize that beyond all these are obligations that have been incurred since January 6, J944-
That is when he protested that he thought his own government had nothing to fear in introducing itself into social legislation, and he asked for a conference. He went on:
* to the extent of many hundreds of millions of dollars, in regard to which no province was consulted in advance. It may be that the dominion government is committed to the continuance of^ those obligations it has undertaken, a point which means they must carry on.

Then, the following day he went on to say:
I said yesterday that a large part of the difficulty created for the dominion government was that instead of dealing strictly with the tax agreement they incorporated in these proposals a number of extraneous subjects which impose heavy additional burdens.
What is he thinking about? Social services. The proposals that had been made really exceeded the revenues that were ever received from those sources by these governments in days gone by. They claim that there is an invasion of provincial rights, but I say that that claim must be dismissed. I do not think they could find a lawyer who would support them in the statement that there is any invasion in that respect. I am sure that the real reason back of the opposition that we are getting is that they feel they can block the social security programme contained in these measures.


Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER:: I must inform the hon. member that his time has expired.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Go on.


William Ross Macdonald: With unanimous consent.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Agreed.


William Moore Benidickson: I will conclude by saying that I consider it necessary that each government should arrive at some financial agreement. I am the first to say that if a further step is to be taken-and it is promised that it will be taken before the agreements are made-we must have a conference for the parties to decide upon dominion and provincial jurisdiction when it comes to this necessary social services programme. I would not support the agreements if I felt that there was an invasion of the constitution, which I appreciate and which I know the members of the federal government appreciate as being very dear. I am sure that the fight which we have been reading about in the newspapers is a phony fight. The real reason these people are backing out of this conference, the real reason for their procrastinating and so on is that they cannot see that we are moving along very quickly with respect to these wonderful proposals for the people of Canada in the way of social services.


Mr. RODNEY ADAMSON (York West):: Mr. Speaker, before I commence my remarks I want to deal with two things that the hon. member for Kenora-Rainy River (Mr. Benidickson) referred to in opening his speech. First, I want to correct something that he has assumed in error was said by the hon. member for Muskoka-Ontario (Mr. Macdon-

The Budget-Mr. Adamson
nell), the official critic of the opposition. He quoted the hon. member as saying at page 2803 of Hansard:
... I suppose, there could not be a more inflationary measure and because it seemed to me that if that was the only way, or was one of the serious ways, which the government regarded as a possibility of dealing with this thing, or of finding a way out, then it seemed to me the matter was not being dealt with as it should.
The hon. member for Muskoka-Ontario was referring to the governor of the Bank of Canada who was reported in the newspapers as saying that a rise in the price of gold in the United States would be an advantageous thing for Canada. He did not oppose the statement made by the governor of the Bank of Canada; he simply said it was strange that the governor of the Bank of Canada should have said such a thing and it be admitted in the newspapers, because the whole reason for the definite reduction in the price of gold in Canada was that it was an anti-inflationary measure. The reason that statement was made was to show that, on the one hand, we had the government decreasing the price of gold in Canada because increasing the price of gold would be inflationary, and yet saying at the same time that an increased price of gold in the United States would be a good thing. On the one hand, you have the statement by the governor of the Bank of Canada and, on the other hand, you have the actions of the government. They do not jibe. Actually we are dependent, more than many of us like to think, upon the gold mining industry and in a minute or two I shall refer to that in more detail.
There is one other thing I wish to say with regard to the bullion tax put on by the previous Conservative or Bennett administration in the years of the depression. That bullion tax was a wholly iniquitous thing. I said so then and, in fact, I broke with my party on that issue. But let me say that the fathers of that bullion tax, the people who believed in it, the people whose brain child it was, are still officials of the Department of Finance; they are the people who are still responsible for the policies of this government. They are still there and the mining industry is still getting a short shrift.


Douglas Charles Abbott: It is a good thing for Canada that they are still there.


Agar Rodney Adamson: I hope the minister is correct, but I do not think he is.
There was a great contrast in the presentation of the budget this year with the presentation of previous budgets by the present Minister of Justice (Mr. Ilsley). There was a difference not only in the presentation but in the preparation. Previously the budget required a period of confinement, and one would see the Minister of Finance in a state of high emotion, full of care and worry over the secrets he held in his breast. This year the situation was quite different. There was a gladsome cheerfulness, even a spirit of levity before the presentation of the budget and it seemed that the minister sought company rather than the solitude of a lonely cell. The difference in result was equally pronounced and, instead of giving birth to a wild, strangling octopus with a well-fanged voracious mouth which fastened itself upon the vitals of the Canadian people, sucked their blood and ate their sinews, this budget was a more pleasant affair, but it was not the grand, brave, healthy child its parents could have wished it to be. Rather it was a somewhat misshapen infant whose producers were forced to emphasize one part of it, leaving the rest of the body covered to prevent close inspection. It is with regard to what remains covered that I wish to speak today.
Heretofore in this house I have spoken on mining. I have tried to plead with the go\-ernment to save the industry, particularly the gold mining industry. They have not listened; in fact, they have done the very things which are most likely to destroy the industry entirely. I will not go into the figures again, but I merely wish to say that if present mining costs continue at the same rate of increase as they did in the last calendar year, by the end of the year there will be only eight to ten straight gold mines which can operate at a profit. In the beginning of the depression years there used to be a saying in mining circles, "the big eight". It would appear from the government's policy that we are to return to a period when we can say, "not the big eight," but merely "the eight" which are getting by.
To show you, Mr. Speaker, that mining costs are still going up, two increases were made recently, an increase of ten per cent, I think, on dynamite, and another increase on steel. Prices of materials required by the mines are still rising.
The facts are simple, and they are these. If a mine can produce an ounce of gold after taxes and development for less than $34.80 an ounce, it can make a profit. If it cannot do this, it cannot make a profit. If it cannot make a profit, it cannot continue to operate. As a matter of fact, a great many mines will continue to operate, and are, in fact, operating
The Budget-Mr. Adamson

30S4
The Budget-Mr. Adamson

have been rising and the United Kingdom authorities have been drawing much faster than they intended on the United States and Canadian credits. The essence of the difficulty, according to the chancellor, is that the United Kingdom has too much to buy for dollars because too little comes forward from the rest of the world. It has so far been selling too little for dollars, although it is hoped that the results of the international trade organization conference will help by increasing the flow of international trade.
This is a statement of the Canadian trade commissioner and can be assumed to be an official statement. Therefore we have a stark and official statement of the difficulties we are to expect in our international trade this year. I submit that, despite anything that he said, any hopes that he may have, we shall find it almost impossible to obtain gold for sterling without seriously, and tremendously seriously, disrupting the equilibrium of the United Kingdom's financial picture. That is a thing which this government or any government must be very careful about doing.
I do not want in any way to criticize the United Kingdom, but there are certain physical and inescapable, facts which we must recognize. They are not the fault of any government, although, in my opinion, they have been intensified by the nationalization of industry in England; nevertheless they cannot be charged to the Labour government.
The first of these is that, even in the best of times, the United Kingdom cannot grow enough food to feed its population. The second is that, in order to obtain money to purchase the food it needs from foreign countries, it must export goods in exchange for the food. The third is that, to export goods, it must manufacture, and, to keep the wheels of its factories going, it needs primary power which, in England, comes almost solely from coal. The fourth fact is that the production of coal has declined, for physical and political reasons, to a degree where the output is not sufficient to keep the country warm and the industries going.
Prior to the war, Britain drew on her investments abroad to purchase the food she needed to keep her going. All these investments have now been liquidated. These facts, which form a vicious circle, are bound to force the United Kingdom into one of three courses. She can default entirely on the repayment of her loans abroad both to us and to the United States. She can export her industries and, with them, a sufficient percentage of her population to make it possible for the home agriculture to feed those who are left. The third possibility is that she may starve. There is no other way out. If we do not recognize the handwTiting on the wall we shall continue to allow the situ-

ation to worsen and eventually be dragged down into the whirlpool of international bankruptcy.
I want to mention one thing here, and that is that instead of exporting capital to England we should be importing her industries and large parts of her population. If there is one thing that made the Canadian war effort a success, apart from the courage and energy of our people, it was the fact that the Canadian worker could command a great volume of primary power. Every Canadian worker had at his hands several horse-power of energy, whereas the worker in the United Kingdom had only a fraction of a horsepower. This important economic fact has never been sufficiently appreciated. The English today have the skills, and, despite the outbreak of wildcat strikes and other disquieting political phenomena, they still have energy. Not being a medical man or a psychologist, it is impossible for me to say what connection there is between the strange behaviour of the English people from time to time and the lack of food, and whether the political frustration which we find so alarming is not really caused by a condition of semi-starvation.
However, no matter what the reasons are, the results are just the same. Unless steps are taken to bring the British economy into equilibrium, the consequences will be desperate for the whole world but will be an absolute catastrophe for Canada. The first warning of what is to come is in the statement of the foreign exchange control board that our adverse balance of trade to the United States is $603 million.
The United States exchange situation is serious. There are three ways in which the government can stop this continuously accelerating adverse balance of trade with the United States. The first measure is, of course, the imposition of special tariffs against United States goods, which will prevent their entry into Canada. This the government will be loath to do, and, in view of the pious hopes expressed about the Geneva conference, I would think that at the present time it would be a retrograde step.
The next course open to the government would be to devalue the Canadian dollar. This would be tacitly admitting their mistake of last year and, if they have a secret agreement with the United States government, would be impossible. Furthermore, the devaluation of a mere ten per cent now would be wholly inadequate to arrest the adverse trading position.
The third step would be to reimpose wartime restrictions on exchange, and these wartime restrictions would have to be considerably more stringent than those imposed on Cana-

The Budget-Mr. Adamson
dians during the war itself. We would have to make it virtually impossible for our citizens to obtain United States dollars, unless it was for the most vital needs, and we would have to prohibit Canadians from visiting the United States except in cases of the most dire sickness. There are no other ways out of the dilemma.
A great deal of hope has been placed on the international bank and the international monetary fund. The international bank has made its first loan of S250 million to France. This is a reconstruction loan. In other words, it is for relief, and it shows, I think, that the bank is being used as a relief agency. It is assumed that the United Kingdom will have exhausted her present loan by 1948 and will in that year require a further loan of at least $1 billion. Now, Mr. Speaker, the capital of the international bank is given on paper at $10 billion. If the nations already members subscribe their full amount, the capital is reduced to S7j billion. However, in May, 1947, the break-down is that there has been subscribed $720 million in gold, $80 million in hard currency and $800 million in what is called less easily exchangeable currencies. Therefore, to be hard-boiled, the bank's capital, instead of S10 billion, is only about eight per cent of this. It seems to me that, since the United States is the principal backer of the bank, and, in fact, is obligated to put up about thirty-seven per cent of the capital, there will come a time when a political reaction in the United States will set in and, because the bank is dependent on action by congress-public law No. 171 passed by the 79th congress-it seems to me that we are running the extreme danger of having the Americans become rather tired of putting up all this money. We are, I feel, reverting to the old fallacies that we followed after the last war. That is, we are believing that we can maintain prosperity and prevent mass unemployment largely by the export of capital. I think our experience, and particularly the experience of the United States in 1929 and 1930, should be a great warning. If we try this method again I feel we shall have to export capital at an ever increasing rate, and that, once it is started, we shall not be able to stop it without immediately causing an international financial crisis of enormous repercussions.
Despite the fact that it is to be devoutly hoped that the Geneva conference will result in a lowering of tariffs, this in its turn cannot prevent a depression, because it takes away the flexibility which the imposition or the relaxation of tariffs provides for in national industry. I think also that we are whistling 83106-19Si
in the dark to keep our courage up if we expect countries to synchronize their fiscal policies to agree with the over-all policy of the world bank. Frankly, I believe it is impossible, because the economies of countries vary so greatly and their fiscal needs are so different. We cannot expect any government to give up its fiscal autonomy. We see this even in Canada where two provinces are, quite rightly I believe, refusing to abrogate these powers.
Now, Mr. Speaker, what does this add up to? This adds up to the stark fact that we are going into the hole at the rate of 600 million United States dollars a year. We know we shall have to lend more money in goods, in cash and in services to the countries of Europe, and possibly Asia. We hope we are going to be repaid, starting July 15, from sterling currencies transferable at the fixed rate of S4. Even if this happens we are not out of the woods and, unless a radical change in the whole economic picture of the United Kingdom takes place, it does not seem possible that the sterling released will be sufficient, or will continue to be paid in sufficient volume for us to meet our adverse United States balance.
I want to say here that we may, and I expect we shall, come to the point where we are placed in this position. We may be able legally to demand sterling exchangeable in dollars to meet our adverse balance of trade. But by so demanding it, we may so jeopardize the economy of the United Kingdom and of Europe that it will make it virtually impossible for us to do it. Believe me, Mr. Speaker, we in this country cannot in peace time see the United Kingdom face bankruptcy and internal troubles any more than we could in war time not protect the United Kingdom physically with armed force. It is just as vital now that her economy continue in a healthy state as it was that the very life of that island should be preserved during the war. Therefore I say that we are taking one of the most colossal gambles in history. We are making the same mistakes as we made after the last war on a tremendously enlarged scale and, because of our fiscal policy with the United States, we are leaving ourselves vulnerable to squeeze play by that country or by the United Kingdom.
Production and production only can be our salvation, but we must produce the things that the world wants and must have. In an economic upheaval, one of our best and surest safeguards would be an abundant gold production and gold reserves. Our parity policy with the United States is certainly destroying
The Budget-Mr. Jaques

our gold production and, despite the figures for last year, is seriously jeopardizing our gold reserves. To tie the Canadian dollar to the United States dollar at this stage in the reconstruction was one of the most dangerous steps any government could have taken. We have seen the results of the action taken by Sweden, in that she has had to put a complete embargo on all imports. The same forces that impelled Sweden to do this are at work in Canada: and I say to you, Mr. Speaker, that unless and until we are prepared to maintain and stabilize our own currency for the good of ourselves and not for the good of others, we are jeopardizing the whole economic life of the country.	.


Mr. NORMAN JAQUES (Wetaskiwin):: Mr. Speaker, I had intended to confine my remarks to matters dealt with in the budget speech, but as a consequence of my visit to the united nations in New York, and certain incidents which have arisen since then, I shall have to defer my criticism until a later day. I might pause here, however, to compliment the minister on his really amazing versatility in handling one department after the other with such apparent ease.
The subject I wish to bring up this afternoon is a statement which appeared in the press of May 7. I am quoting from the Ottawa Journal, which reprints an article taken from the New York Post in reference to a statement made by the anti-defamation league, and it quotes the league-
-as saying that Jaques had addressed "nationalist" rallies in various parts of the United States recently with Gerald L. K. Smith, leader of the newly organized Christian nationalist crusade. Smith told a press conference here yesterday-[DOT]
That was in New York.
-that the crusade's ten-point programme includes preservation of the United States as a Christian nation, exposure of communism, and the "safeguarding of America against the menace of bureaucratic fascism."
I may say that my reply to the press locally was as follows:
The Zionist terrorists are not confined to Palestine; probably the most poisonous of them are at work outside Palestine, on this side of the Atlantic. Personally, I don't give a damn what they say. I'm not going to try to defend myself, but I am prepared to attack this common enemy of a free people any time or anywhere. This is the Zionist

that is the political zionist-communist front which is just as much a terror here as in Palestine.
Then, as a result of further statements in the press, the leader of this group, made a statement on May 12, which appears at page 2982 of Hansard:

... I want to make it clear that neither the social credit movement in Canada nor the group of Social Credit members in this house takes its lead from Gerald L. K. Smith, nor is associated with him in any way.
I can confirm that statement. I neither take my lead from Gerald Smith, nor does he take his lead from me. Then the hon. member for Peace River (Mr. Low) went on to say:
The social credit movement finds its inspiration in the constructive principles of abundant living as taught by the Saviour of mankind, and in the economic teachings of Major C. H. Douglas of Scotland.
Let me say at once that all social creditors will agree to that. Social credit is the policy of a philosophy and, to put it as shortly as possible, I would say that policy could be defined as a Christian nationalism, that is, Christian in its widest sense, not in any sense of organized religion, but in the sense of the ideals as laid down, in the Christian gospels; while we take "nationalism" to mean loyalty to one's own country. If any member of this house is opposed to Christian ideals and is not loyal to his own country, will he please get up now and testify? Now is the time; if there is anyone who does not agree with that, let him get up and say so or forever hold his tongue on this subject.


Mr. HARTT:: Christianity is more than a form.


Stanley Howard Knowles: It is also international,
not national.


Maurice Hartt: It is international; it belongs to no one. I am going to sit here and listen to this philosopher.


Mr. JOHNSTON:: It might do you some
good.


Maurice Hartt: He might learn more from
me than I would learn from him.


Norman Jaques: I do not want any interruptions, either.


William Ross Macdonald: Order.


Norman Jaques: Why should I be referred
to as a "notorious" Christian nationalist? Why should anyone be notorious who publicly defends the ideals of the Christian way of life, and defends the principle of loyalty to his country? Let me quote from a speech made in this parliament:
I wish to protest against the idea that any flag is a Christian flag. This idea is something that we have heard from many who today are dead but the germs of whose ideas are still being disseminated. Goebbels is dead, but his ideology seeps even into this House of Commons. The swastika was also a flag, and it represented a system of barbarism and persecution.

The Budget-Mr. Jaques
That statement was made in this house by Fred Rose, a convicted communist spy, and it explains why communists hate Christian nationalism. According to the Marxian communists there must be one world flag, the hammer and sickle, the symbol of international atheism and slavery.
Let me give briefly my reasons for addressing meetings in the United States. In the first place, I was invited to address audiences by reason of certain speeches I had made in this house. I accepted, and went first to Detroit, where I addressed a large number of people. I am not going to enter into any details at all, nor am I going to defend my action. I think anyone who is familiar with the situation in the United States will admit, as I found to be the case, that there was and still is a tremendous anti-British propaganda carried on there. I addressed audiences in various cities, including Detroit, Chicago and St. Louis; later on, Los Angeles and cities up the Pacific coast, and quite recently Philadelphia. My reason for going, mainly if not wholly, was to see what little I could do to bring about a better state of feeling between the British and United States peoples. I believe I can make the claim that, at least to some extent, I have brought about a better feeling between our two peoples.
To show the necessity for this, let me quote the words of an American who visited western Canada last fall, and who addressed meetings in various cities in Canada. I take this from the press reports of his meetings. He is reported to have said:
In Palestine the Jews do not believe that the British empire should be preserved. They believe the British should be driven into the sea, and the issue left to the Jews and the Arabs-


Maurice Hartt: That is not true. Why do you quote it?


Norman Jaques: Because he said it.


Maurice Hartt: Who said it?


Norman Jaques: I have told you; please listen. It continues:
. . . and the issue left to the Jews and the Arabs, with Russia in the background. Fascism is immensely strong in the United States today and there is intense anti-Semitism. Anything that happens in the United States is reflected in Canada, and Jews must fight fascism by supporting Russia through labour unions and progressive action on political issues.
Those are the words of Albert Kahn-


Maurice Hartt: That is what Hitler said.


Norman Jaques: Mr. Albert Kahn, formerly editor of the anti-defamation league's radio programme, "The Hour". I do not believe
that Albert Kahn spoke for the majority of the Jews. He spoke for the communist part of them.
Mr. HARTT': That is possible.


Norman Jaques: And I do not believe, either, that the majority of Jews in this country, or in the United States or in any other country are involved in communism, or in driving the British into the sea; because nowhere have they received better treatment than they have in Great Britain and in the British dominions.


Maurice Hartt: We could not live in Palestine without Great Britain, and we know it. It is true.


Mr. LOW:: There is no quarrel about that.


Norman Jaques: No quarrel at all.


John Horne Blackmore: Fight the enemy; we are not your enemies.


Norman Jaques: Let me quote from a 'United States magazine, Destiny, particularly from an editorial headed "Anti-Defamation League", and stating:
Sinister forces in our midst have done their work well, spending millions to suppress the truth, that we Americans may not know the devilish and diabolical programme by which the enemy within hopes to take over this great nation and enslave its people. The activities of this organization reach into every city, constituting a secret police in our midst, watching and listing our citizens. But read the facts, for,free government in the United States is at stake, as well as the life and liberty of millions of innocent men and women. We have time yet to take action, but if we wait much longer it will be too late.
As proof of the power of this anti-defamation league, let me remind the house of meetings which took place in Ottawa a year ago last winter. We remember the meetings of the politioal Zionists, one of which was held in this very house, which was well attended, and for which those who attended received no stigma.
Let me compare that with certain meetings held by the Canadian Arab friendship council. A dinner was held in the Chateau Laurier, to which were invited perhaps a hundred of the key people in Ottawa, including representatives from the churches, the professions, the city government, the civil service and members of parliament. Out of those hundred, I believe there were twelve or thirteen members of parliament. I do not think one businessman, or one representative from the professions or the churches accepted the invitation.
I asked friends of mine who are businessmen in Ottawa, and who were invited to the meeting, why they did not come. They did
The Budget-Mr. Jaques

not hesitate to say that they did not dare to come, beause had they been seen there their credit would have been injured.
The same thing happened in Edmonton. When I returned home from Ottawa I was asked to address a dinner meeting at the Macdonald hotel in Edmonton. This meeting was called by the Canadian Arab friendship league. Again sixty or seventy of the key people in Edmonton were invited to attend, and again less than a handful-a half dozen, I think-put in an appearance. They told me the same thing, that they were frightened of the anti-defamation league. That is the truth, and what is the good of hiding it?


Maurice Hartt: No, it is because the speaker was boring.


Norman Jaques: Very funny! Very funny, indeed!


Maurice Hartt: We will get acquainted.


Stanley Howard Knowles: You are going to be all right, over there.


Maurice Hartt: We are going to be pals.


Norman Jaques: I have no quarrel, nor can I have any quarrel with any one loyal to Canada and to the British commonwealth. But I give fair warning that I will fight any man who is out to betray our country and to [DOT]turn it over to the tender mercies of the communists. I am going to fight him, and I don't care whether he is Jew or Gentile.


Maurice Hartt: That's the boy; we are with you. Stick to your guns.


Norman Jaques: Let anybody get up and-


Maurice Hartt: But don't shake all over the place.


Solon Earl Low: I see you are wearing your pants thin.


Maurice Hartt: I don't follow it.


Solon Earl Low: Don't make foolish remarks, then.


Maurice Hartt: Of that you are a good judge.


Norman Jaques: I do not want to be interrupted continually. What is this criticism? What is this fear? What is behind it? What does it amount to? It is nothing but character assassination, and great principles are involved. Evil men have gained control of propaganda, and they can smear and assassinate the character of anyone who dares to raise his voice against them. Give a dog a bad name, and hang him. Smear a public man by misquoting what he says and prevent him from answering by refusing to publish what he does say, and

he can be destroyed as thousands of honest, patriotic public men have been and are being destroyed. This is nothing but the modern version of lynch law by which honourable men can be morally lynched by the masses, so-called public opinion, which is fed on the lying propaganda of these character assassins. The masses can have no opinion of their own; they are indifferent to the truth and too cowardly to defend it even if they know the truth. Only responsible, free individuals can be brave and just and moral. The masses are mobs and a mob rules by lynch law. That is how dictators gained power in Germany and Russia, and that is how the communists hope to gain control of the world.
What is a fascist? I was surprised when I looked up the definition of the word "fascist" in the encyclopedia and found that it means anti-communist. When addressing audiences in the United States and in Canada I have noticed that when I spoke against communism invariably the word thrown at me wras "fascist". The chief communist smear is antiSemitism. That serves a double purpose. It frightens public men from denouncing the activities of the communists and at the same time it frightens Jews who are not communists-and they are in the majority-into running to the communists for protection and paying them for it. That is well known.
What is a quisling today? I asked that question the other day in the committee. We were discussing displaced persons who had been sifted out in order that a certain percentage might be brought to this country or to the United States. I wanted to know how they had been sifted out, and I was told that the quislings and traitors had been sent back whence they came. Then I said, "What is a quisling today?" It is quite clear that if Russia was helping to do the sifting anyone who opposed communism would be called a quisling and be sent back to Russia for punishment. Hundreds of thousands, not to say millions of people have been sent back to Russia to their death or to worse than death, while the united nations, we included, have stood by and nobody has raised his voice against it because, if they did, they would be smeared by the anti-defamation league.
Communism is not an economic question. In the United States some of the richest men are leading communists, multi-millionaires like Marshall Field, Mr. Corliss Lamont, a partner of Morgan's, and others. I suppose the most communistic community and perhaps the richest community in the United States is Hollywood. I have been there and I know that to be a fact. The essential nature of

The Royal Assent
communism is that it is anti-Christian. Unless we realize that, we cannot understand it nor can we deal with it.
There have always been communist agents working in all groups, in all organizations and in all parties. This is not the first time that I have been threatened by the communist secret police. Some of their agents are working within our movement. One such was detected a few years ago, and among his papers was found a note reading:
There always are certain individuals prominent in the social credit movement who will deserve careful attention. Jaques is one of them. In my opinion this man is most dangerous to our cause.
That is, to communism.
Despite our efforts we have never been able to unseat him. Watch him carefully, he has many followers.
In essence Marxism is anti-Christian and, until that basic truth is realized, we can neither understand it nor cope with it. Karl Marx, the father of communism and socialism, was an atheist. He hated all religion as the opiate of the people, but above all he hated Christianity. The whole issue before the world today is clear-cut. We must choose whether we are to advance according to the ideals of the Christian gospels, or whether we are to retreat to world slavery according to the doctrines of Karl Marx. That is the one allimportant question. All other questions depend upon it and, until it is settled, there can be no peace in the world.
Soon or later we must all stand up and be counted. I have many friends in the United States, fine, fearless people who are fighting the communist enemies of their country and of our country. I should be sorry not to meet them again. But my mind is.made up; I am in a fight to a finish against the red communists and pink fellow travellers. I shall not be stopped by threats. My silence is not for sale at any price. You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.
On motion of Mr. Zaplitny the debate was adjourned.



BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

[Stage Direction]
Mr. MACKENZIE; Last week I intimated that the debate on the budget would be proceeded with without intermission until concluded, but I find there are two important expeditions of adventure in the course of public duty which will take some of our most prominent supporters and adherents away from the chamber. I am, therefore, compelled to ask the permission of the house to vary the promise I gave them last week about the budget debate.
Major James William Coldwell: Will it be called a fruitless expedition?


Ian Alistair Mackenzie: The expedition will be crowned with success.


Stanley Howard Knowles: A wild goose chase.


William Earl Rowe: In view of the expedition, does the minister expect any of his colleagues not to return?


Ian Alistair Mackenzie: No. That is a distinction which my hon. friend once enjoyed but which I have never enjoyed.


William Earl Rowe: I returned to the house, though.



THE ROYAL ASSENT

[Stage Direction]
A message was delivered by Bonner Larose, Esquire, Acting Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod, as follows:
Mr. Speaker, His Honour, the deputy of His Excellency the Governor General, desires the immediate attendance of this honourable house in the chamber of the honourable the Senate.
Accordingly, the house went up to the Senate.
And having returned.
Mr. Speaker informed the house that the deputy of His Excellency the Governor General had been pleased to give in Hi3 Majesty's name royal assent to the following bills:
An act to incorporate Conference of Mennon-ites in Canada.
An act to amend the Inspection and Sale Act, 1938.
An Act to amend the Militia Act.
An act respecting a national wild life week.
An act respecting the Toronto, Hamilton and Buffalo Railway Company.
An act respecting compensation for government employees.
An act respecting British Columbia Telephone Company.
An act respecting the appointment of auditors for national railways.
An act to amend -the Canada Evidence Act.
An act to amend the Canada Evidence Act.
An act respecting export and import permits.
An act to amend the Immigration Act and to repeal the Chinese Immigration Act.
An act to provide for the sale and export of agricultural products.
An act to amend the Canadian Wheat Board Act, 1935.
An act to amend the Patent Act, 1935.
An act to provide for the continuation of certain orders and regulations of -the governor in council for a limited period during the national emergency arising out of the war.
An act to continue the revised regulations respecting trading with the enemy (1943).
An act respecting Guaranty Trust Company of Canada.
Privilege-Mr. Ilsley
[Stage Direction]
An act to incorporate Quebec North Shore and Labrador Railway Company.
An act for granting to His Majesty certain sums of money for the public service of the financial year ending the 31st March, 1948.
On motion of Mr. Mackenzie the house adjourned at 6.08 p.m.
Thursday, May 15, 1947