1943-01-29

Right Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING (Prime Minister):: On the concluding day of the last session the then leader of the opposition, the hon. member for York-Sunbury (Mr. Hanson), asked me a question with respect to the treaty between Canada and the United States governing the extradition of criminals. I said I would give my hon. friend the information at an early day this session. The fact is that the treaty, as the hon. member for 
York-Sunbury mentioned at the time, was signed on April 29 of last year. It was tabled in this house by my colleague, the Minister of Justice (Mr. St. Laurent), August 1 last. The treaty has been approved by the senate of the United States but it has not yet been ratified. It will be presented to this house for approval before it is ratified.
I might give the house this additional information with regard to the present position. Following the publication of the provisions of the treaty, the government received representations from many organizations in Canada who are interested in the marketing of securities. Extensive briefs were filed asking among other things for a modification of the provisions in so far as they might touch upon matters which could properly be regarded as legitimate Canadian business. These briefs and other representations, some of which have been recently received, have been the subject of careful study by the interested departments of the government. These studies are continuing. It is not possible at present to state the position which has been reached in this matter. Before ratification, the treaty will, as I have said, be submitted to parliament for approval, but it is unlikely that it will be possible to present it to parliament at an early stage of the session.



BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. GORDON GRAYDON (Leader of the Opposition):: I should like to ask the Prime Minister if the government will take appropriate action to expedite the establishment of the various standing and select committees of the house.
I recognize that the rule has been that these committees are not officially constituted until the debate on the address in reply to the speech from the throne has been concluded. However, at this first opportunity I should like to indicate that it is the desire of the opposition members to have all the committees formally constituted so as to begin work this session with a minimum of delay. Too frequently in the past there appears to have been a great time lag between the formal constitution of the committees of the house and the actual commencement of their work. Indeed, some standing committees, having within their jurisdiction very important subject matters, have failed on some occasions to hold more than simply pro forma organiza-

Committees-Revision oj Rules
tion meetings. Last session standing committees were formally constituted on February 19. The first committee to meet was the committee on printing, on March 4. The committee on agriculture and colonization met first on March 17; the committee on standing orders on April 30. The committee on banking and commerce did not meet until May 13; the committee on miscellaneous private bills did not meet until June 5; and the committee on railways, canals and telegraph lines held its first meeting on July 8. Six standing committees, namely, those on privileges and elections, public accounts, marine and fisheries, mines, forests and waters, industrial and international relations, and the debates committee did not meet at all during last session.
On March 2 of last year I asked for the appointment of a select committee on radio broadcasting. The committee was appointed on March 13, and did not hold its first meeting until almost two months later, on May 6. The first evidence was taken in that committee on May 14, and considerable criticism of the delay in this instance was voiced in the committee itself when it met. While I am on this point I wish to urge upon the government the acceptance of the recommendation of the last radio broadcasting committee's report, that a committee of the house review the policies and operations of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation annually from now on, and particularly as soon as possible this session.
The fact that six of the committees did not meet last session and that other committees held very few meetings indicates the urgent need for some better plan of enlisting the services of members generally in the 'work of the committees of the house. The need is more apparent than ever in a war-time session of parliament, and I ask the government to take immediate steps in this direction.
Some early consideration, in my opinion, should also be given to reviewing and modernizing the whole of our parliamentary procedure. The war is bringing many changes in the lives of our people and in our entire national structure. Parliament, therefore, in my opinion should not only bring itself abreast of these changes but should show that it is not afraid to give leadership to them in its own internal conduct.
I ask the Prime Minister if he will give sympathetic and careful attention to the points which I have, raised.


Right. Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING (Prime Minister):: I am pleased to say to my hon. friend that I heartily approve the suggestions which he has made. Indeed, the government itself has felt that it was most desirable to have committees meet at an early day, and care will be taken to see that they are constituted as soon as the debate on the address is concluded, if not, by arrangement with my hon. friends opposite, before that time.
As to some of the committees not having met last session, that in no sense is a reflection on the government. As my hon. friend is aware, any member of the house has a right to ask that certain matters should be refeired to the appropriate committees. If no request is made for a committee to meet, and matters are not thereby referred, there is obviously no need of calling a committee together.
My hon. friend has spoken about some delay in constituting the committees. I am quite prepared that we on this side should take our share of the blame, if such is to be given, for any delay; but I wish to point out to him that time and again the appointment of committees has been delayed because of the inability to get from my hon. friend and his supporters opposite the names of the members of his party whom they desired to have serve on committees. However, he no doubt intends to see that they act promptly in these matters and we may be spared that delay on this occasion.
As to the number of committees that are to meet, I imagine that a good deal of the time of members of the house this session will be taken up by service on the different committees, because there are some committees the work of which will require considerable time. I do not think the business of the house is expedited at all by having a very large number of committees, with members serving on two or three committees at one and the same time. Rather, I should think it would expedite matters to have the committees properly attended by limiting their number. I ihight mention immediately the committees which this year will be of special importance.
My hon. friend has asked that the committee on radio broadcasting should be appointed again this year. The government fully intends to see that it is reconstituted. The speech from the throne has mentioned the reconstitution of the committee on rehabilitation and reconstruction. It also indicates another committee, a very important committee, on social security. The committee on war expenditures will also be reconstituted, as well as the committee on the Defence of Canada regulations. In addition to these there will be the committee on railways and

War Labour Board

shipping. It is possible there may be a committee on canteen funds. I do not think it will be necessary this year to have a special committee on land settlement, or one on vocational training, nor will there be the necessity of a special committee on the plebiscite. My hon. friend will recollect that that subject took up a large amount of time last year, and it accounted in very large part for the delay in constituting some of the other committees.
While I am speaking on the question of committees, I may say that the government has had under consideration the appointment of a committee on estimates, but before making any final decision in the matter I should like to have a word with the leader of the opposition and the other leaders in conference together.
There is one other committee to which reference has been made: a committee to revise the rules of the house. We have, as I stated on a former occasion, thought that a time of war was not the best time to revise the rules of the house. The rules of the house are designed to apply in ordinary times; in a time of war they have to be modified considerably. We hope the war is not going to continue for so many years that the house will be embarrassed in any way by having its rules remain as they are for the present, modified by agreement to such extent as has been the case in previous sessions. However, I do not wish to say a final word on that just now. But it is the present view of the administration that this is not the best time to have a committee consider the rules of the house.



NATIONAL WAR LABOUR BOARD


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Gordon Graydon: May I direct a further question to the Prime Minister? In the press of January 25 of this year there appeared a report with regard to the settlement reached in the steel strike, and one of the points mentioned was the appointment of a new chairman of the national war labour board. I was wondering if the Prime Minister would acquaint the house with the progress that has been made in that regard.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: I may say to my hon. friend that the government is in communication with a gentleman who I hope will find it possible to accept the position. I hope to be able to make an announcement of his name to the house on Monday.



SHORTAGE IN WESTERN CANADA-DELIVERIES IN SASKATCHEWAN AND ONTARIO

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. J. G. DIEFENBAKER (Lake Centre):: I wish to direct a question to the Prime Minister in regard to the serious fuel shortage, particularly in the prairie provinces. What steps are being taken by the government to relieve that situation and to ensure that adequate deliveries, or at least some deliveries, are made to cities and towns in Saskatchewan that are almost out of fuel?


Mr. FRASER (Peterborough West):: Ontario also.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: Perhaps my hon. friend will be agreeable to having his question stand as a notice. A committee was appointed by the cabinet some little time ago to deal with the problem just referred to. Steps have already been taken to meet the situation, but I should prefer not to make a statement offhand as to what those steps are.



GRAIN POLICY


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. J. A. MacKINNON (Minister of Trade and Commerce):: Mr. Speaker, I desire to make a statement with respect to the government grain policy for 1943-44-that is, with reference to the crop year commencing August 1, 1943.
This policy relates, in part, to the marketing problem and programme and, in part, to the production programme already announced by the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner).
I shall deal first with the marketing aspects. Later, on behalf of my colleague, the Minister of Agriculture, I shall refer to phases of grain policy for the coming year that have to do especially with production.	[DOT]
My purpose in making a statement on this subject at this early date-so far in advance of the actual commencement of the next crop year-is to assist producers, as far as possible, to plan their 1943 crops. The government has arrived at its 1943-44 grain programme after very careful consideration on its own part; after full discussion with the Canadian wheat board; after having received the recommendations of the advisory committee to the Canadian wheat board; after a conference between federal agricultural officials and provincial agricultural officials and the Cana-

Grain Policy
dian federation of agriculture; and after consultations between the United States and Canadian agricultural authorities.
The 1943-44 programme involved some important adjustments as compared with the 1942-43 programme, but retains the same general objectives. The marketing policy is definitely related to the general farm production programme announced by the Department of Agriculture.
1.	The fixed initial price of wheat under the Canadian Wheat Board Act will remain at 90 cents a bushel for No. 1 northern wheat basis in store Fort William-Port Arthur or Vancouver.
2.	Marketings of wheat in western Canada in 1943-44 will be restricted to 14 bushels per authorized acre. The limitation of marketings to 14 bushels per authorized acre, instead of using a total marketable quantity, will greatly simplify administration and each producer will know exactly how much wheat he can market.
3.	The most important change in policy is in connection with wheat deliverable in 194344. Under the present regulations only wheat grown in 1942 may be delivered against the
1942-	43 quota of 2S0 million bushels. Under the new programme any wheat which the farmer has on hand produced in 1943 or in any previous year will be deliverable within the quotas fixed for the crop year 1943-44. The government feels that this feature of its
1943-	44 policy will result in a further reduction in wheat acreage and will enable producers to devote more of their land to the production of other crops which are required. Most producers in the west will have wheat on +heir farms at the end of the crop year, and consequently will be able to further reduce their wheat acreage in 1943 and still fill their 1943-44 delivery quotas. The general farm production programme contemplates a reduction of at least three million acres in the area sown to wheat in 1943 as compared with 1942.
4.	Minimum prices for oats and barley in 1943-44 will be continued at 45 cents a bushel for No. 2 C.W. oats, basis in store Fort William-Port Arthur, and 60 cents a bushel for Nos. 1 and 2 C.W. barley, basis in store Fort William-Port Arthur, with lower grades in their proper relationship. Old crop as well as 1943 production of oats and barley may be delivered during the coming crop year.
5.	The fixed price for flaxseed in 1943-44 will be continued at $2.25 a bushel basis in store Fort William-Port Arthur.
6.	In connection with its policies in respect to delivery quotas, the use of available storage
space and shipping facilities, the Canadian wheat board will give first consideration to the movement of those grains or grades of grain which are most in demand in 1943-44.
May I now turn to those aspects of the grain policy for 1943-44, which relate primarily to production and in regard to which, on behalf of my colleague the Minister of Agriculture, I wish to state the main decisions that have been reached.
The agricultural programme for 1943 announced following the conference held in Ottawa on December 8 and 9, 1942, required that there be an increased production of hog, cattle and poultry products in 1943 which should be continued into 1944.
The considered opinion of those best informed in the United States and Canada is that if we are to reach our objectives in live stock production in 1943 and 1944 there must be an increased acreage of coarse grains in Canada in 1943.
We are asking a 12 per cent increase in oat acreage and an 11 per cent increase in barley acreage. This is being encouraged by guaranteed. minimum prices on barley and oats as last year.
In order to make provision for the required acreage we are asking farmers to reduce their wheat acreage by not less than 3,000,000 acres. To encourage this, the Minister of Agriculture will submit amendments to the Wheat Acreage Reduction Act, 1942, to provide payment of $2 an acre on each, acre by which land seeded to wheat in 1943 is less than land seeded to wheat in 1940 based on the same acreage. If there is new breaking involved, 80 per cent of it will be counted as wheat and 20 per cent as coarse grains. No payment will be made in respect of abandoned land.
There is no assurance that flaxseed from an additional acreage can be disposed of in 1943. We are, therefore, not asking farmers to increase flax acreage over 1942. If there is any change in the requirements of flaxseed, farmers will be notified later.
Some difficulty is experienced in disposing of rye. We are, therefore, suggesting that rye acreage be reduced by 31 per cent.
Finally I wish to make a statement on the question of wheat farm storage .payments, from this crop year of 1942-43. Due to altered circumstances affecting the marketing of this year's crops, it has been decided on the strong advice of the Canadian wheat board not to make payments for the farm storage of wheat.
In the past two crop seasons, farm storage payments were made because of congestion of country elevator space early in the crop year. At the beginning of this crop year, there were about 170 million bushels of empty storage
Grain Policy

space, less working space, in western country elevators for the receipt of the new crop. Apart from a few persistently troublesome dis-' tricts, it has been possible to advance quotas rapidly. Over one-third of the western delivery points now have their full wheat delivery quota of 14 bushels per authorized acre. Only 154 out of 2,149 points remain on an 8-bushel basis.. In addition to wheat deliveries of 152 million bushels, western farmers have been able to sell 10 million bushels of flax and 100 million bushels of other grains. These alternative and additional revenues and the advance in the price of wheat have helped the farmers' position so that the conditions of 1940-41 were not applicable.
If farm storage had been paid this crop year, serious difficulty in accepting deliveries of 280 million bushels was anticipated. In all probability, the payments would have had to be accompanied by a required delivery date on certain percentages of the farmer's quota and this feature, in turn, would have been a considerable offset to the scheme. It has already been necessary for the Canadian wheat board to urge producers to deliver grain within their existing delivery quotas wherever there is available space at their local delivery points.
Prompt filling of available storage space has two important advantages. It brings forward more of the kinds of grain and grades which can be quickly disposed of in domestic and export markets, and thereby serves to increase the total sales of grain by having them on hand for shipment forward when required. It also helps the Canadian wheat board in making it possible for producers to deliver 280 million bushels of wheat in the 1042-43 season. This cannot be accomplished if producers withhold a substantial volume for delivery in June and July.
Mr. MARK C. SENN (Haldimand): There is one point on which I am not clear. Do I understand that there is to be a bonus of $2 an acre on any increased acreage of spring grains, that is coarse grains; and will that apply only west of the great lakes or throughout Canada?


Hon. J. G. GARDINER (Minister of Agriculture) :: The statement made on behalf of the Department of Agriculture was that legislation will be introduced in the house to provide for the payment of $2 an acre. There will be an amendment to the present act, which provides for payment only in the western provinces on the reduced wheat acreage.


Mr. E. E. PERLEY (Qu'Appelle):: I am sure this house, the west and the country generally will appreciate getting this state-

ment from the minister at such an early stage of the session. On no previous occasion has it been brought down so early, and I think it is a fine thing. I am sure, however, the minister could not expect us to follow the lengthy statement closely enough to ask questions on it now, but in one or two points I think it will be very disappointing to western Canada. I should like to ask a question or two. Did I understand the minister to say that about one-third of the delivery points have received the full 14-bushel quota that they were to receive on the seeded acreage of last year?


James Angus MacKinnon: I did not say that. I said that over one-third of the western delivery points now have their full wheat delivery quota of fourteen bushels per authorized acre. In other words, the quota is there for the farmers to deliver.


Ernest Edward Perley: Could the minister state when it would be possible for the other points to take the full fourteen bushels? There is a serious situation in certain districts, where the quota is only eight bushels.


Mr. SPEAKER:: Order. I would direct the attention of hon. members to the fact that this is a statement by the minister, and there should be no debate in connection with it.


Mr. ROBERT FAIR (Battle River):: There is one question which I believe is of vital interest to a number of farmers in western Canada who, because of weather and labour conditions, have not been able to get their 1942 crop threshed. I should like to ask the Minister of Trade and Commerce (Mr. MacKinnon) if he will not immediately bring in an amendment to the wheat board act permitting farmers to deliver, on their 1942 quota, any grain they may have in their bins, whether grown in 1940, 1941 or 1942.


Thomas Vien: That is a question which should be placed upon the order paper.



GOVERNOR GENERAL'S SPEECH


[Stage Direction]
The house proceeded to the consideration of the speech delivered by His Excellency the Governor General at the opening of the session.
Mr. W. E. HARRIS (Grey-Bruce) moved:: That the following address be presented to His Excellency the Governor General of Canada:

The Address-Mr. Harris (Grey-Bruce)
To His Excellency Major-General the Right Honourable the Earl of Athlone, Knight of the Most Noble Order of the Garter, a member of His Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council, Knight Grand Cross of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath, Grand Master of the Most Distinguished Order of Saint Michael and Saint George, Knight Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order, Companion of the Distinguished Service Order, one of His Majesty's Personal Aides-de-Camp, Governor General and Commander-in-Chief of the Dominion of Canada.
May it Please Your Excellency:
We, His Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the House of Commons of Canada, in parliament assembled, beg leave to offer our humble thanks to Your Excellency for the gracious speech which Your Excellency has addressed to both houses of parliament.
I should like first to express my thanks to the Prime Minister (Mr. Mackenzie King) for the great kindness he has shown in asking me to speak to this motion. It is an honour which he has conferred upon the constituency of Grey-Bruce; but I know that every elector in that constituency will join with me when I say that the honour was actually conferred upon the armedl forces of the dominion, for in all probability, as the Prime Minister has said, in 1943 all our armed forces will be in action, and for that reason this will be perhaps the most memorable year in the history of the dominion.
Up to the present time the Canadian army has not taken a prominent part in the war, but this year it will reach the peak of its strength, when it will be composed1 of two army corps. When it goes into battle it will have more tanks and more mechanized1 equipment than any other army of like size in the world, and in most instances, if not in all, the equipment which it will take into battle will have been made in Canada. It will be led by young officers, most of them younger than I am, who, along with their troops, have been trained for that day by one of the greatest soldiers of the British empire. More than that, our army has been planned and equipped by one of the ministers of this government who knows what an army ought to be, and who has created it accordingly.
The admiration and respect for the Canadian army which I met on all sides in Great Britain were based to some extent, it is true, on the reputation made by the Canadian corps in the last war, and I must say that every member of the Canadian army hopes that he will measure up to that standard. If he does, the Canadian army will take a leading part in the effort of the empire in this war.
While I was overseas I had the pleasure of
being principally with English army units and in English schools, but I did get around to the Canadian army at various times. If I were to mention only one incident in par' ticular it would be the three delightful weeks; I spent with the regiment from the home' town of the hon. member for Three Rivers; (Mr. Ryan). That regiment was placed under, I suppose, rather strange circumstances. The boys were keen for battle and were prepared for it. Their morale was exceptionally high. May I state generally that the morale of the Canadian army was high when I went over' there, and it was much higher when I came-back, a condition I believe entirely due to the Dieppe raid. In that battle we found that the heroism of the Canadian soldier under the most trying circumstances is equal to any task he may be given. If there is one thing which does depress a soldier it is to find, after he has been completely trained, that he must spend a period of inactivity, during which time he is not being used in battle. Nevertheless when I say this, I am not saying that the Canadian soldiers in Great Britain are dissatisfied with the present condition. Each one, without exception, appreciates the great honour the war office has conferred upon him in saving him to act as the spearhead of the attack when we seek to liberate the peoples of Europe from German domination. That understanding of his ultimate goal and ultimate honour has made the Canadian soldier curb his impatience, and eager to train against that day.
Naturally when overseas I took the opportunity to compare the three armies, that of Great Britain, the United States troops which were present, and our own. I also had some time to see what the civilian population was doing, and if the house would permit I should like to tell briefly what I saw. The male civilian in Great Britain is either in war industry or medically unfit for that work, and is carrying on an essential civilian occupation. He is a member of the home guard and takes his turn at fire watching, checking blackouts and performing similar duties. As a member of the home guard he drills on at least one-and sometimes two nights a week, and1 in the' summer months from Saturday afternoon until' Monday morning he is in the field with the active army receiving instruction in further defensive tactics. That is a weekly programme sufficient to test the strength of many people listed as category A in the active army. His duties, however, are increasing rather than diminishing, because each member of the home guard in Great Britain realizes that in a short time nearly all the armed forces of
14	COMMONS
The Address-Mr. Harris (Grey-Bruce)
Great Britain and her allies will leave those islands, and that they will then have to defend themselves against possible German invasion.
The women of Great Britain are in war industries. They have replaced the men in civilian occupations, particularly those in the transportation systems. They belong to Red Cross organizations and' more particularly to organizations distributing food and clothing sent from this country and the United States. So perfect is their organization that when a family is bombed out, but is fortunate enough to survive, although deprived of all their belongings, with the possible exception of the few clothes they may be standing in, within an hour or so, no matter what time of the day or night the bombing may have taken place, the family is placed in new quarters and supplied with a variety of clothing of the correct sizes and provisions for the coming day. This is done by married women who probably in the day time have looked after the children of other married women in war industry, have done some Red Cross work and have managed to keep their own households going. I can think of no contribution being made in this time of war equal to that <of the married woman of Great Britain who mot only works the hardest and is the lowest jpaid, but who is doing her work cheerfully, and in full realization of the dangers just :ac.ross the channel. Therefore, if this afternoon I make some comparisons, I do so with a full knowledge of the great efforts being made not only by the civilian population but by the three armies of which I have spoken.
Having all that in mind, I should like to tell the house that from what I have seen the Dominion of Canada can be justly proud, of her civilian war work as well as of the fighting qualities and numbers of her troops. We have overseas over 200,000 soldiers, sailors and airmen, and we shall have more shortly. We have another 200,000 under arms in Canada either in training for overseas service or on active service defending our country. To the very last day of the war we shall require a considerable number of them, to defend our coasts from Alaska to British Columbia and from the maritimes to Newfoundland, and shall have to keep troops in those localities. That is essential, and the duty they are performing is equal to any contribution that will be made.
I understand that last year our enlistments exceeded those of 1941. What is even more important is the fact that the enlistments of the last half of 1942 exceeded those of the first half. That is a record which this country did not have toward the end of the last war, and ,one of which we may be exceptionally proud. 
It does not seem long ago that the Minister of National Defence for Naval Services (Mr. Macdonald) announced in the house his programme for the expansion of the Royal Canadian Navy. We now have 46,000 men and over 500 ships in the Royal Canadian Navy. The duty they are performing, if not greatly publicized in this country, is one which the people of Great Britain fully realize. They have a great appreciation of the protection afforded the transportation of food which has maintained that country. I do not know of any person engaged in war who undergoes a strain equal to that of the man serving in the navy. Those of us in the other services undoubtedly have moments of danger; but for long continued danger there seems to be none equal to that of the man who goes to sea over long periods of time and under a constant submarine menace.
In the Royal Canadian Air Force we have
150.000	men, a force which I believe fully justifies the planning in the fall of 1939 and justifies the hope of the Prime Minister expressed at that time that the training programme would expand and might very well be the largest single contribution of this country to the war effort. The Royal Canadian Air Force is now growing in the number of squadrons under its command, and in addition to that we have a great many men in the Royal Air Force. There is something exceptionally comforting in the knowledge of a fighting man that he has friends overhead in time of danger.
I understand the Royal Canadian Air Force has served on every front and at all times, and has performed the perhaps less glorious but nevertheless essential and important duty of going far out to sea in the protection of our coasts.
I understand that we have enlisted and enrolled over 700,000 people for military service in this country. On any basis of population we may wish to take, that is a record which will compare most favourably with that of any of our allies. In addition to this I believe we have over 900,000 people directly engaged in the war effort through the manufacture of munitions, and the like. Another
150.000	are engaged indirectly in the services essential to these manufacturing concerns. This makes a grand total of people directly engaged in the war effort in the Dominion of Canada of well over a million and a half. That again is a record of which we need not be ashamed. On the contrary, while pride is not expected of our own efforts, I assure you, sir, that all this is appreciated in Great Britain and by everyone there to whom I have spoken.

The Address-Mr. Harris (Grey-Bruce)
The speech from the throne indicates that this will be a session of post-war planning along with the maintenance of our present war effort, and in this connection I should like to say that one of the greatest things that we can do is to continue the close relationship that we have with the United States. We are greatly indebted to the United States for the efforts she has made in this war, and we shall be more indebted as time goes on. At the same time the United States is indebted to us for having maintained Great Britain with food and supplies from the fall of France to the end of 1941. In this mutual respect for each other's contribution lies the greatest hope for our future relationship, in particular in connection with our trade arrangements with the United States.
Some three years ago the people of this dominion were called upon to choose a leader for the coming four or five years. At that time many reasons entered into the choice, but I think there was one on which we all agreed, that is, that at that critical time in our history it was essential that we should have as a leader of this country some one who was well known and whose talents and honour-were respected in the United States and in Great Britain. If that were true then, as it undoubtedly was, it is equally true at the present time, because in the post-war period, being among the united nations which will plan the future, Canada will need someone with experience and who is held in the same high regard by the nations which will make the decisions.
There has been some undue optimism about the duration of the war. There has been some quite sound optimism over the conclusion of the war, but it is unfortunate that many people, some of whom have the public confidence, have been making guesses as to the duration. This past summer the German army launched one of the greatest offensives in military history and caused grievous loss to our Russian allies and made great gains. If at the present time the German army is retreating and forfeiting most of those gains it is not due to the cracking of that army; it is due to the heroism and military wisdom of our allies and the material support which this country, Great Britain and the United States have given to Russia. There is no sign in my opinion of the German army cracking permanently, nor is there yet any sign of the morale of the German people cracking. We should carry on the war on that basis and with that belief.
As the war proceeds it will be Inevitable that along with our allies we shall redeem certain lands now occupied by Germany. The north African campaign demonstrated that along with carrying on military efforts it is necessary to supply food for the civilian population, and this will be necessary with other civilian populations that we temporarily take under our control. Only the United States and Canada have the means to do this. It is fortunate that we have set up a joint committee of our agricultural departments so that we may work in conjunction with the United States.
It seems to me that despite the discussion this afternoon about our surplus of wheat, it is essential that we produce more food in this country, perhaps of other kinds, in 1943 and 1944. To do this it is necessary that the farmer obtain more labour than he has at the present tipie. I am sorry to say that in my own constituency the production of food fell off slightly during the past year. It would have fallen off more had it not been for the extra efforts of the farmers themselves. I know that this is a great problem, but I know that the government realizes its importance. It is a man-sized1 job, and I notice a man-sized man is taking care of it. But if my own riding is to be taken as a sample of rural Ontario, I assure the government that they cannot expect increased production unless some labour is provided for the farmers.
I do not presume to make suggestions to the committee on post-war planning, but I should like to refer to the great numbers of people in Europe who undoubtedly will want to come to this country when the war is over. Many look back upon the period of 1900-1910 as the period of greatest progress in the dominion, but many people said that we could not assimilate the people who came here at that time. After the last war there was a similar opinion that the large numbers of people who entered the United States could not be properly assimilated into their population. The test of both these worries has come during this war. Many of the people who came to this country from Europe and many of their descendants are in our armed forces, as great a percentage as the percentage of those who came from the British isles. The same condition obtains in the United States. I do not think we need to fear the coming to this country after the war of the people of various races. As has been said many times, we have exceptionally large quantities of raw materials which are awaiting manufacture and export. It seems
16	COMMONS
The Address-Mr. Harris (Grey-Bruce)
to me that these can be turned to profit by creating a population here much larger than we have at the present time.
If I may, I should like to say what I think the Canadian soldier expects when the war is over, and I intend to give the thoughts of soldiers with whom I have been in contact for the past thirty months. He is fully aware that at the present time his pay and dependents' allowances is on as high a level, if not higher than that of the soldier of any other country. He knows the standard of living in this country is as high, if not higher than that of any other country. Therefore he expects that the income to himself and to his dependents will be on a like level. I know the government is well aware of this. I suggest, too, that pensions might be reconsidered because it may be that the present pension level does not bear the ratio it should to the pay and allowances.
However, when the Canadian soldier returns-I include also the Canadian sailor, the Canadian airman and all the women who have joined the auxiliary services-he will naturally expect his old employment back. We have provided for that by statute. But the house will understand that few soldiers who come back after three years of war will want to reengage in the employment they left. Their horizons have widened, and their ambitions are greater. They would like better employment and, without resentment, they hope they will get it. That is all that the Canadian soldier expects. His own talents are sufficient to do the rest.
I am very glad to see that social insurance occupies a prominent place in the government's programme. Our soldiers in Great Britain have learned that in Great Britain milk and fresh fruits are rationed to hospitals and children, and as a result the health of the children in Great Britain has shown a decided improvement. I suggest to this house that it should be our purpose to see that all children born in Canada have a sufficient supply of these foods at least so that the health of this nation will improve greatly within the next twenty years. It is surprising that with our good climate our health standard was not so very much higher than that of other armies of the world. It is a first essential that the health of this country should be improved, and may I make bold to say that if it requires the expenditure of public money, whether by way of subsidy to maintain the production of domestic foods or to purchase foodstuffs from abroad, it is our duty to provide the money. 
Mr. Speaker, we have demonstrated] in this country that two great races can live side by side and progress so long as the minority respects the majority and so long as the majority is zealous to maintain the rights of the minority. That is a lesson which has yet to be learned in Europe, and it is a lesson which we should try to teach many peoples. Along with the United States we have shown that political differences do not need to interfere with mutual trade and mutual respect, and I am sure that our two countries can show that we have a higher standard of living on this continent and that we have also the proper approach to post-war planning.
In connection with many of the speeches one hears about democracy I suggest to the house what I said last year, that we represent democracy as it is known in Canada, and in our name there are going to be many sacrifices made this year. I hope, indeed I am sure from the past record of this house, that its deliberations and the decisions made at this session will be on a sufficiently high plane to justify the sacrifices which are going to be made this year, and those decisions I am sure will be directed to making a greater Canada, not for the sake of greatness, but because we can contribute something to the welfare of humanity.


Mr. MAURICE HALLE (Brome-Missis-quoi) (Translation):: Mr. Speaker, it is with
great pleasure that, on the occasion of my maiden speech in this house, I second the motion which the hon. member for Grey-Bruce (Mr. Harris), my brother in arms, has just made with such ability and eloquence.
I believe the Right Hon. Prime Minister (Mr. King), when he charged me with this pleasant task, intended first to pay a tribute to the electors of Brome-Missisquoi, who, in this war, as in the 1914-18 conflict, elected) to this house a member of His Majesty's armed forces. In 'both cases, the people of my constituency, willingly forsaking their immediate interests, knew that by returning a soldier they would in all probability have to do without the services of their representative for an indefinite period of time.
Only a few hon. members of this house have been personally acquainted with the valiant representative of my constituency in 1914; but I am sure that every one of us has had the opportunity of admiring the splendid bronze monument erected near the entrance to this house to the memory of Lieutenant-Colonel George Harold Baker, member for Brome, commanding officer of the 5th C.M.R.

The Address-Mr. Halle
fallen on the field of honour on June 2, 1916. On 'behalf of all my constituents, I have to-day the honour of publicly rendering to his memory the homage of our admiration, and his name will ever remain for us a symbol of patriotism and devotion to duty.
May I be permitted to add, on behalf of all the sailors, soldiers and airmen hailing from the picturesque valleys and mountains of Brome and the fertile plains of Missisquoi, that we shall have no rest in the present conflict, until the enemy has been vanquished again and we hope, rendered powerless to start another war.
The people I represent do not differ from the population .of any other agricultural constituency; they are peaceful, industrious, frugal, loyal, slow to enthusiasm and anger; however, once they realize that they have to deal with a cruel and ruthless enemy, bent on systematically destroying all the free institutions which they respect and consider as being essential to life and happiness, this same people suddenly become warlike and thirst for vengeance and, for them, peace would henceforth be but an empty word, unless it were brought about by a victory as complete, as total, as the war itself.	,
Personally, I aspire to one thing only, the privilege and honour of being worthy of such electors and of such a predecessor as Colonel Baker.
Mr. Speaker, on many occasions since the outbreak of war I have had the privilege of meeting my electors, publicly and privately, in their homes or on my own farm, in workshops, in army camps, in places of amusement, at exhibitions and on the street. I have always made it a point to discuss with them the serious problems which confront us at this time and I am sure that I understand quite well their reactions.
I have had lengthy conversations with people who own prosperous farms and large herds of cattle, whose sons are in the army and who often must, together with their wives, their younger sons and their daughters, and with what little farm help is available, toil from five o'clock in the morning to eight o'clock at night in order to maintain their normal production or reach the output which is so earnestly requested of them by the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner). Transportation facilities are very much curtailed, spare machinery parts are almost impossible to obtain, feed is expensive and scarce, amusements are non-existent, expenses are high while income is low, but nevertheless
those farmers and their families have told me that they considered themselves fortunate to be able to make at least some contribution to victory.
I have talked with railroad men, who are numerous in my constituency, men who, night and day, on Sundays or week days, in fair or foul weather, and under conditions which are sometimes almost intolerable, are endeavouring to cope as efficiently as possible with the tremendous task of transporting the army, the civilian population, the war material and the ordinary trade goods, and they have assured me that, in their opinion, no sacrifice will be too great for the triumph of our cause.
On various occasions I have endeavoured to ascertain the opinion of the workers in factories and workshops, of merchants, civil servants, clergymen, barristers and physicians, and from all of them I have had the same reply: "We will do whatever is necessary to win this war-we will do our utmost."
A deep significance underlies those outspoken and gratifying utterances, for our people are not unlike others, and if they accept all the sacrifices requested of them, it is because they are firmly convinced that such sacrifices are absolutely necessary. Mr. Speaker, I wish to convey to this house the inner thoughts of my constituents, so that my fellow members may compare them with the feelings of their own electors, for provided a spirit of selfsacrifice in the face of the dire needs of war is shown from the Yukon to Nova Scotia, among French- and English-speaking Canadians and in the various classes of people, we shall then be able to assert unhestitatingly that such a population is united and shall never be vanquished.
The nefarious work of the axis powers has been described as follows by one of our church leaders, His Eminence Cardinal Villeneuve:
An attempt at world-wide destruction, morals of barbarous ferocity, a philosophy substituting greed for judgment, a despotic enslavement of all liberty by fire and sword, an atheistic cult glorifying brutal force and selfishness.
The Canadian people, Mr. Speaker, realize more and more how this description carries no exaggeration with it and has now come to appreciate the fact that the future existence of our free institutions both Christian and democratic are at stake, perhaps for centuries to come. Surely, in such great peril, any thought of personal ambition and professional gain does seem futile and despicable. One thing now matters: national welfare-and I mean national as opposed to sectional interests.
The Address-Mr. Halle

Such is the first of the motives I had referred to, motives which prompt our people willingly to accept all sacrifices required of them by our leaders.
Such success as the leaders of enemy countries have attained until now they owe to their diabolical ability to instil into the minds of the unfortunate people under their domination a boundless faith in their nefarious doctrines. Against this powerful and fertile root of evil works, against this faith, if we want to win, we must set up a faith that is stronger still- a faith in liberty: political liberty, liberty of conscience, liberty of thought and action, all liberties which appear so natural to us nowadays that it took a long time and irreparable catastrophes for a great number of people to realize that civilized nations such as Germany, Italy and Japan had deliberately planned their destruction. Such is the faith in liberty which dwells in the hearts of our people.
War has taught us a great lesson in solidarity-that is to say that liberty is the common good of all peoples-and that should one nation have its liberty taken away we are immediately threatened with the loss of our very own. Without liberty for every people on earth, peace is unthinkable, and without peace can there be no question of true liberty? If we would continue to enjoy peace and liberty we must suppress once and for all time every source of aggression and domination. We must immediately devote all our efforts to that one end. We must cease right now wasting our vital energies in futile and dangerous demands for advantages which in final analysis are but the normal consequence of the liberties enjoyed in common by all Canadians.
Such are the principles which inspired our gallant Canadians at Dieppe with the courage and heroism which they so brilliantly displayed. The opposite principles are those which inspire certain exponents of theories having nothing whatever in common with the successful pursuit of the war. Fortunately, their subversive ideas find no adepts among us, for the people I was referring to a moment ago and who, in their humble sphere, endeavour to cooperate to the best of their ability in the common enterprise, who willingly accept more and more sacrifices for the sake of victory and who were telling me there was nothing they would not do, are quite convinced that the present struggle is directed against principles which are destructive of all freedom, against totalitarianism, that is, against the absolute negation of what we claim to be our rights as free men, as free partners in the task of establishing a Canadian nation.

Such is the deep conviction which makes it possible for them to carry stoically the growing burden of taxation, the material restrictions in ever increasing numbers and the prolonged absence, sometimes without hope of return, of some members of their family.
Those who see in the present conflict nothing but a struggle for commercial or territorial gains are greatly mistaken. Our foes' ambition shall not be so easily satisfied. They aim at something far more dangerous to our national life, for there is no secret about the axis plans and they are in every way opposed to our national aspirations.
A new order would be established all over the world, in Canada as elsewhere, an order wherein there exists no room for liberty as we understand it. When liberty is mentioned before us, we immediately visualize a sacred and fundamental privilege which the Canadian people have cherished above all else ever since the beginning of their eventful existence and even before ever having set foot and settled in the New World. It has been said, as a matter of fact, that the vast majority of settlers who left France for Quebec in the 17th century did it from a love and spirit of freedom and to escape the growing encroachments of an absolute government. They loved freedom and liberty more than riches, more than security, more than life itself.
Ever since they settled in Canada, there followed a ceaseless struggle for self-government and a minimum of interference from Metropolitan France and the Sovereign Council. One need but read the history of Canada under the French regime to realize the marked difference already existing at the time as between Frenchmen and Canadians. The French considered Canada as a crown property and meant to be its undisputed masters. The Canadians claimed that this was their homeland and in their non-cooperation policy they went as far as to refuse to wear the king's uniform. The government authorities had even found themselves compelled to describe the Canadians under the name of " habitants " instead of " subjects," the latter term applying only to Frenchmen temporarily residing in the colony. When they waged war, and they were efficient soldiers, they did so alongside France and as Canadians, not as Frenchmen. That struggle was still going on in 1759. I believe that my English speaking fellow-citizens should ponder the fact that even under the French rule, we were inclined to have our own way.
The English rule which prevailed at the end of the 18th century and the political evolution of the 19th century did not bring about any

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change and to-day a similar touchiness is evidenced among the various classes of our population. That is why, at the beginning of this war, and probably on account of the fact that it seemed impossible, nowadays, to witness the disappearance of freedoms we had gained through the course of time and by dint of hard struggles, it has seemed that the French-speaking population considered the present conflict as just another imperial venture conducing solely to more favourable geographical arrangements and to trade adjustments.
However, our church, government and military leaders; I mean our real leaders, Lapointe, God'bout, Power, Cardinal Ville-neuve, Mgr. Charbonneau, Vanier, Leclerc, Panet, LaFleche, to mention only those that readily come to my mind, those leaders, I say, were quick to tell our people that the present conflict is a total war threatening the political, social and moral institutions of all countries of the world, without excepting Canada or the province of Quebec; a war which is the most serious challenge to our civilization based on human freedom.
Our population then realized that it had the same reasons to oppose Hitler as had heroic Russia who now amazes the world by its marvellous courage, its incredible tenacity, its military prowess and its victories. The time had come for the axis countries to meet on their destructive march another people prizing freedom above life itself. My constituents greatly admire the Russians and the same feeling is noticeable in the ranks of every unit of the Canadian army.
The history of the world shows very clearly that American countries are privileged. All but a very few were founded and have lived in freedom. They have not, as Russia, been forced to tear down before rebuilding. To them freedom comes as naturally as the air they breathe or the rays of the sun that give them light and comfort. If they are generous at heart, and who would claim they are not, they should lead the fight for the rights of a free and Christian world. That is exactly what our town and country people understand and1 which gives them the courage to face the difficulties of the hour.
In October, 1942, I was permitted, as an observer, to be present at the American army manoeuvres in the state of Tennessee. In a few weeks, I soon learned the extent of the common aspirations and convictions of the nations of America, how well the gigantic and
planned effort of Canada in this war was valued and admired, and also what the Americans will expect from us when our troops finally come into contact with the common enemy. I also became gradually aware of the real meaning of the expression: brotherhood of nations, for the American is truly the brother of his Canadian neighbour.
I was very much impressed by the rapidity with which that great nation built its military and economic organizations, but what impressed me most was the following opinion expressed by a sergeant of the American army:
When every free man will understand that his mind be in unison with the mind of those who give their lives for liberty on the battle fields, when every free man will understand that the main goal of all free men calls for the same fervour, the same perseverance, the same firmness and the same toughness that we find in our armed forces, it w'ill then be the beginning of the end of the war, not before.
I sincerely think, Mr. Speaker, that the Canadian people have reached that stage and when the moment is ripe for action, nothing will stand before them. Speaking for my comrades overseas and myself, as I shall be with them in a few days, may I express the wish to witness that hour very soon.
The French speaking Canadians of my riding have gone through the same evolutions of thoughts and sentiments as their English speaking neighbours, and it is with joy and pride that they have learned of the steps personally taken by the Minister for National Defence (Mr. Ralston) to give them, in the conduct of the armed forces of our country, a share proportionate to the increasing number and experience of our French speaking soldiers. Accordingly, we have witnessed the creation of infantry brigades, artillery regiments, and I am proud to be in command of one of them, battalions of engineers, tank regiments, army service corps and signals, hospital and field ambulances, of one bomber squadron, also of camps, naval stations and training schools for sailors, soldiers and airmen of French language, in command of French speaking officers. This task is carried on every day; but for its final achievement we still need the unanimous and unreserved support of all my French speaking fellow-countrymen, including those who are at present more worried about post-war conditions than about the efficient pursuit of the war itself.
I can only mention here the complete cooperation existing between the officers of the two great races of this country. Indeed, this
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valuable cooperation is maintained between all the races found in the armedl forces. I want to mention this fact because it seems to be ignored by some of my compatriots. In my estimation, it is no overstatement to say that owing to the direct influence of the Minister of National Defence, the problem of the French-speaking minority has become practically non-existent in the Canadian army. I wish to thank him therefor publicly. He may be assured that this new measure of unity will have a strengthening influence upon our army.
I have spoken so far on behalf of my electors, who, I know, share the views of Canadian citizens in every other section of Canada. I have also spoken as a soldier-and here again I am convinced that both the soldier and the civilian have but one object in view -victory. Before bringing my remarks to a close, I wish to say how gratified we felt upon hearing that immediate provision is to be made, in order that the post-war period may be one of well-controlled readjustment, because both the members of our armed forces and the civilian population are somewhat apprehensive, and justly so, at the thought of the difficulties they will have to face.
We do not need any inside information, Mr. Speaker, since the Casablanca meeting, to realize that the war is coming to a climax. Our Russian allies are hurling back to the border the German armoured legions. Rommel has been driven out of Egypt and Libya. Tunisia has become one of the world's most important battlefields. Japan is ready to pounce again in the Pacific. In western Europe the rumble of approaching battle is in the air. The Dieppe raid was a double warning, a warning not only to the enemy but also to us; for the breaking into the occupied continent will exact a heavy price from us, no less than it will inflict punishment on them. In Great Britain our Canadians who have until now been playing a defensive role are being transformed rapidly into an army of assault. In Canada the people are being told to brace themselves for less food and more work. I have shown that they are ready for this. On every side and in every way we are turning out for the fight to a finish. As this climax draws nearer it is well to ask ourselves this most important question: Is our present leadership equal to the task? Speaking for my constituents and for myself, speaking as a soldier in the Canadian army, I say to the government: Go on with the good work. We 
feel that every single minister in the cabinet is doing a great job and doing it in the right way.
I have only this to add. Many of us in Canada and overseas have as yet done little or nothing for victory. Some of us are better off than we were before; some of us are even working less than we used to and being better paid for it. It is unlikely that we shall be lucky enough to get off, in the end, as lightly as we have done so far. We have a lot of slack to take up, not only in rations and privileges and money, but in physical sacrifice as well.
It is well to remind ourselves, as the climax of the battle of freedom approaches, that this government will demand from us greater endurances and sacrifices than most of us have hitherto suffered, or even contemplated. Unless we count that cost, we are paying less than our share of the heavy price of victory. But we are all ready to accept it. All we need is for this government to go on telling us what to do.
On motion of Mr. Graydon the debate was adjourned.
On motion of Mr. Mackenzie King the house adjourned at 4.45 pun.
Monday, February 1, 1943