1935-03-06

Mr. S. W. JAOOBS ('Cartier) moved:: That the petition of Austin Eugene Stans-field. presented on the 5th instant, praying for a bill of divorce from Laura Lougheed Stans-field, together with the report of the clerk of petitions thereon, be referred to the standing committee on standing orders for the purpose of considering the suspension of standing orders 92 and 93 (3) (a) and (c) in relation thereto.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.
Questions

[Stage Direction]
(Questions answered orally are indicated by an asterisk).

Mr. LAPOINTE:: In reference to the reply given by the Minister of Marine, page 1297 of Hansard, with regard to works in the harbour of Quebec under the Public Works Construction Act, what are the names of the firms or persons who were asked to send tenders?


Mr. DURANLEAU:: The following firms were invited to tender for works being done in the harbour of Quebec under the Public Works Construction Act:-
Delphe Maranda, Romeo Vachon, Colonial Construction Co. Reg'd., Cummings Construction Company, Joseph Nolin, Amedee Latu-lippe, Amedee Demers, Abel Ratte, Morton Engineering & Drydock Company, Frontenac Lumber Company.


IMPORTATIONS OF ALCOHOL
Mr. CARMICHAEL:: 1.	What quantity of alcohol both absolute and non-absolute, was imported into Canada in 1934?
2.	What was the total value of the 1934 alcohol importations?
3.	From what countries did we import alcohol in 1934 and what w'as the value and quantity from each such country?
4.	How much alcohol ivas manufactured in Canadian distilleries in 1934?
5.	Wliat was the value of the alcohol distilled in Canada in 1934?


Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):: Calendar year
1.	1934
Butyl alcohol		. ..Lbs. 1,915,794	
Other industrial alcohols:		
Pf. gals			25,208
Gals			37.593
2. Calendar year 1934,	$274,279.	
3.	Calendar	year 1934Butyl alcohol-	Pounds	$From United Kingdom.	201,600	28,470United States	1,714,194	169,521Total	1,915,794	197,991Other industrial alcohols-	(In proof gallons)	Pf. gals.	$From United Kingdom.	8	41United States. ..	20,296	13,434France	49	298Jamaica	4,855	16,720Total.. . 	25,208	30,493
Other industrial alcohols-
(In gallons)	Gals.	$From United States. .	.. 37,503	45,673China	. 90	122Total	,. 37,593	45,7954 and 5.	Calendar	year 1933Pf. gals.	$Non-potable alcohol.. .	. 1,429,602	599,698Denatured alcohol. .. .	. 2,141,537	956,605Total	. 3,571,139	1,556,303
Note.-No information available respecting production of alcohol in Canada in 1934.


IMPORTATIONS OF PETROLEUM OILS
Mr. CARMICHAEL:: 1.	What was the total importations into Canada for the year 1934 of (a) crude or partially refined' petroleum oils; (b) coal tar benzol; (c) tetraethyl lead, etc.; (d) refined gasoline?
2.	What was the value of each of the four items in the above question?
3.	What duty was collected on each of the four items in the above question?
4.	From what countries did these importations come, and what quantity of each of the items in the above question was imported from each country?
5.	What were the total gasoline sales in Canada by the retail trade in 1934?


Mr. HANSON (York-Sunbury):: 1.	Year ended March 31, 1934:
(a)	1,063,539,693 gallons.
(b)	No information available.
(c)	1,398,928 pounds.
(d)	15,108,093 gallons.
2.
(a)	$24,962,149.
(b)	No information available.
(c)	$981,064.
(d)	$1,329,095.
3.
(a)	$317,537.37.
(b)	No information available.
(c)	$98,106.40.
(d)	$377,701.31.
4.
(a) Imports from-*	Gallons
United Kingdom	 4,200
United States	 732,115,085
Alaska	 3,640
Colombia	 108,165,158
Dutch West Indies	 35,336,880
Mexico	 855,666
Peru	 116.555,315
Russia (U.S.S.R.)	 1,958,368
Venezuela	 47,853,793
Trinidad and Tobago	 20,691,588

Questions
(b) No information available.
(c) Imports from-	Pounds
United States	 1,398,928
(d) Imports from-	Gallons
United States	 12,776,327
Alaska	 21,020
British East Indies	 376
Dutch West Indies	 2,310,370
5. 481,126,000 gallons.


TOBACCO EXPORTS
Mr. SEGUIN:: What quantity of tobacco was exported to the United Kingdom in 1930 and in 1934 respectively: (a) from the province of Quebec; (b) from the province of Ontario; (c) from all parts of Canada?
Mr. MATTHEWS;
Canadian Exports to United Kingdom of Unmanufactured Tobacco in the Fiscal years ended March 1930 and 1934 .	Fiscal Fiscal
year 1930 year 1934 pounds pounds
(a)	Through ports in the
province of Ontario.. 1,458,678	582,716
(b)	Through ports in the
province of Quebec.. 707,282	3,938,091
(c)	Through all Cana-	.dian ports	
5,293,167	8,288,753
(a) and (b). The figures represent exports
through ports of exit in these provinces. No information is available from departmental returns, showing separate amounts of goods exported originating in each province.


HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR CANADA
Mr. POULIOT:: 1.	Were any increased powers entrusted by the dominion government to the High Commissioner of Canada in London since 1930?
2.	If so, what are they and when and why did it occur?


Sir GEORGE PERLEY:: No change has
been made in the powers of the High Commissioner as set forth by (43 Vic., cap. 11) the statute creating his office, and by order in council P.C. 330 of the February 10, 1922, which provided that "all the official activities of the various agencies of the Canadian government in the United Kingdom should be placed under the supervision of the High Commissioner." Administrative steps were taken in 1931 to ensure more effective execution of order in council P.C. 330.


IMPERIAL ECONOMIC CONFERENCE (1932) AGENDA
[Stage Direction]
Mr. POULIOT;
1.	On what date was the complete agenda of the Imperial Economic Conference (1932)
forwarded for the first time by the Canadian government to the Right Hon. J. H. Thomas, Secretary of State for the Dominions?
2.	Was it by mail or by cable?
3.	In the latter case, why?
4.	On what precise date was it completed?
George Halsey Perley: 1 and 2. On May 23, 1932, a draft provisional agenda for the imperial economic conference was telegraphed simultaneously to the Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs, London, and to the governments of Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and the Irish Free State, together with a request for the views of the governments on the proposed agenda. The agenda was communicated by mail to the government of Newfoundland.
3.	To secure simultaneous receipt of the proposals by all countries to be represented at the conference.
4.	Following an interchange of views by
telegraph between all the governments represented at the conference the final provisional agenda was completed on July 2, 1932, and published by unanimous consent on July 12 1932.	'


CANADIAN FARM LOAN ACT-QUEBEC APPLICATIONS
[Stage Direction]
Mr. ROBERGE;
1.	How many persons in the province of Quebec applied to the federal government for a loan in 1934, under the terms of the Farm Loan Act?
2.	What was the total amount involved in such loan applications?
3.	How many persons secured a loan?
4.	What was the total amount loaned to such persons ?
Mr. RHODES:: Statistics are kept by fiscal years only. In the year ended March 31, 1934, there were 779 applications for loans aggregating $1,541,711. The number of loans granted was 140 and the amount $222,900.
- L'lSLET COUNTY, QUE., POSTMASTERS
Mr. FAFARD;
1.	What are_ the names of the postmasters of Sainte-Perpetue, Saint-Pamphile and Saint-Ad'albert, in the county of L'lslet, province of Quebec ?
2.	What salary is paid' to each such postmaster?


Mr. SAUVE:: 1 and 2.
Post office-Name of postmaster-Salary-
Sainte Perpetue, Mrs. Victoria M. Legace, $612.86; Saint Pamphile, Joseph Pierre Choui-nard, $1,135; Saint Adalbert, Michel Duval, $195.87.

Questions as Orders jor Returns


REVENUE FROM GOLD TAX
Mr. MacLEAN:: 1.	What was the total amount of money
received from the gold tax up to January 31, 1935?	,
2.	What are the names and addresses of the different companies paying this tax, and the amount paid by each up to January 31, 1935?


Mr. RHODES:: 1.	$5,883,711, subject to adjustment in respect of income tax.
2.	The companies included in the category of those liable for the tax are as follows:
Consolidated Mining and Smelting Co. of Canada, Ltd., Trail, B.C.
Dome Mines, Ltd., South Porcupine, Ont.
Hollinger Consolidated Gold Mines, Ltd., Timmins, Ont.
International Nickel Co. of Canada, Ltd., Copper Cliff, Ont.
Lake Shore Mines, Ltd., Kirkland Lake, Ont.
McIntyre Porcupine Mines, Ltd., Schumacher, Ont.
Noranda Mines, Ltd., Noranda, Que.
Pioneer Gold Mines of B.C. Ltd., Pioneer Mines, B.C.	.
Premier Gold Mining Co. Ltd., Premier, B.C.
Siscoe Gold Mines, Ltd., Siscoe, Que.
Sylvanite Gold Mines, Ltd., Kirkland Lake, Ont.
The Teck-Hughes Gold Mines, Ltd., Kirkland, Ont.	[DOT] ,	,
Wright-Hargreaves Mines, Ltd., Kirkland Lake, Ont.
It has long been the practice not to disclose the business of individual companies by making public the amounts of taxes paid by each.



QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS


Mr. POULIOT:: 1.	What countries (a) were and (b) were
not contracting parties to the treaty of Versailles?	.
2.	What was the number in each case?


George Halsey Perley: Return tabled
herewith.	.



CLARKSON, GORDON, DILWORTH AND COMPANY

Mr. POWER:: What amounts have been paid' by the government of Canada or any department thereof to the firm of Clarkson, Gordon, Dilworth & Company, or to any member of the said firm during the fiscal years 1929-1939, 1930-1931, 1931-1932, 1932-1933, 1933-1934, and from the end of the fiscal year 1933-1934 to date?
tMr. Sauvf'.J



PRICE SPREADS AND MASS BUYING COMMISSION -NORMAN SOMMERVILLE K.C.

Mr. GOLDING:: 1.	How many days did Norman Sommerville,
K.C., act as counsel for the committee and royal commission on price spreads and mass buying?
2.	What was his remuneration per day?
3.	What was his expense allowance per day?
4.	How many days did the committee sit?
5.	How many days did the royal commission sit with Mr. Sommerville acting as counsel?
6.	What was the total amount paid him for services and expenses?



MOOSE JAW SASK. POST OFFICE

Mr. VALLANCE:: 1.	On or about the 10th of September, 1931,
was one C. T. Karsgaard given a contract to make certain alterations to the post office at Moose Jaw?	.	.
2.	If so, what was the contract price?
3.	Was the work proceeded with?
4.	Was a contract let for the same or similar alterations during the year 1934?
5.	If so, what was the work to be done and what was the contract price?
6.	Who was the contractor?
7.	How much has he been paid?


Mr. STEWART (Leeds):: Return tabled herewith.



REMOVAL OF CIVIL SERVANTS

Mr. McPHEE:: 1.	How many civil servants have been removed from their positions since the present government came into office by: (a) dismissal; (b) superannuation; (c) death; (d) other causes?
2.	What are the names of the deputy ministers removed from their positions since the present government came into office by:	(a)
dismissal; (b) superannuation; (c) death; (d) other causes, showing the department of which each was deputy?


Mr. CAHAN:: May I ask that this question stand as an order for return. I should also like to have some information regarding it. The question refers to civil servants, and in the Civil Service Superannuation Act I find the term "civil servant" defined as follows:
(b) "Civil servant" means and includes any permanent officer, clerk, or employee in the civil service as herein defined,
(i)	who is in receipt of a stated annual salary of at least six hundred dollars, and
(ii)	who is required, during the hours or period of his active employment, to devote his constant attention to the performance of the duties of his position and the conditions of whose employment for the period or periods of the year over which such employment extends preclude his engaging in any other substantially gainful service or occupation.
In ordinary parlance the term * civil servant" is sometimes used as applying also to temporary employees doing only part time

Motions for Papers
service, or to those who are employed at certain daily or hourly rates. I should like to know whether the hon. member wishes to have the information to cover the civil servants as defined in the act, or whether he wishes included the information regarding the temporary employees or others excluded by the terms of the act.


Mr. McPHEE:: Civil servants according to the statute.


Charles Hazlitt Cahan: Thank you.



MOTIONS FOR PARERS


Mr. NEILL:: (1) For a copy of a letter, order, or circular, alleged to have been issued by the board of railway commissioners on or about February 15, 1911, to the effect that section 358 of the Railway Act was to be put into effect. (2) Copy of a circular issued by the same body on March 28, 1911, instructing the railways not to bother filing their records as stated by the Minister of Railways on pages 1211 and 1212 of Hansard of date February 22, 1935.	(3)
Copy of the regulations made by the Department of Trade and Commerce governing rates, tolls, schedules, etc., of steamers subsidized by the government.



EIGHT HOUR DAY

Mr. LAURIN:: For a copy of all correspondence, letters, telegrams, and other documents, passed between the federal government and the provinces, between 1919 and 1935, respecting:	(a) the
application of the eight-hour day; (b) the forty-eight-hour week; (c) minimum wages; (d) unemployment insurance.



HAMILTON ONT., PUBLIC BUILDING

Mr. GARLAND (Bow River):: For a copy of all letters, correspondence, telegrams and other documents, exchanged between the dominion government, or any member thereof or other persons, relating to the proposed construction of the $1,700,000 federal building at Hamilton, Ontario.



CLEMENT POST OFFICE, WRIGHT COUNTY

Mr. CHEVRIER (for Mr. Perras):: For a copy of all letters, telegrams, correspondence and other documents, in the possession of the Post Office Department, and dated from 1st of December, 1934, to date, in connection with the change of postmaster at Clement post office, county of Wright.



MILITIA UNITS-YARMOUTH, N.S.

Hon. J. L. RALSTON (Shelburne-Yar-mouth) moved:: For a copy of all reports, memoranda, letters, telegrams and other correspondence,, in the possession of or under the control of the Department of National Defence, dated since June 30, 1913, respecting accommodation for militia units at Yarmouth, Nova Scotia.


George Halsey Perley: I have no objection to this motion passing, but of course, according to the usual practice, confidential letters and memoranda cannot be included in the return.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Alfred Duranleau: Mr. Speaker, on
the 25th of February last, the hon. member for L'lslet (Mr. Fafard) asked me if I had been informed that the pillar at St. Roch crossing had recently been carried away by the ice and if the Department of Marine intended rebuilding it for the opening of navigation. Officials of the Department of Marine have ascertained that it has been carried away by ice. I wish to inform my hon. friend that pending the decision of the department regarding the rebuilding of this lighthouse, should such rebuilding be deemed necessary, a lightship will be placed at that point to ensure the absolute safety of navigation.



ALASKAN HIGHWAY

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. THOMAS REID (New Westminster):: I would direct a question to the Acting Prime Minister. According to press dispatches a bill has recently passed the United States Senate foreign relations committee authorizing the expenditure of $100,000 for a survey and $2,000,000 on the construction of the proposed Alaskan highway, also authorizing the president of the United States to negotiate with the dominion government for the passage of a road through British Columbia. My question is this: Are any negotiations in progress at the present time with the president of the United States, and if so would the minister kindly inform the house of the government's attitude towards the proposed highway.


Right Hon.   S@: As far as I know there have been no such negotiations, but I shall make inquiries.
British Settlers



BRITISH SETTLERS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. JOHN VALLANCE (South Battleford):: Mr. Speaker, on Friday last I directed a question to the Minister of Immigration. I notice that he is not in his place to-day, and I am therefore directing my question to the acting leader of the house because it is very imperative that this question be answered in the near future, if not to-day. My question of Friday was this:
It has been drawn to my attention that there are in northern Saskatchewan some British settlers who were brought in under the Three Thousand British Families scheme, and who now find themselves destitute. These people, because of the fact that they have been in Canada over five years, have no further claim on the scheme under which they came, and the municipalities have refused to accept any responsibility for them. Therefore I would ask the Acting Minister of Immigration (Mr. Gordon) if he has any knowledge concerning them, or if he will have the matter looked into. The answer of the minister was this:
I know something of the situation to which the hon. member lias referred. I have been in correspondence with the settlers. In view of the question asked I shall look into the matter again and make a more extended reply on Monday or Tuesday.
I waited till Monday and Tuesday, and it is now Wednesday, aDd I have received no further answer. These people are asking for some assistance or for deportation, and I direct my question now to the attention of the acting leader of the house.


Right Hon.   S@: I personally know nothing about the matter but I will see that the hon. gentleman's further inquiry is brought to the attention of the minister.



CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. CAMERON R. MeINTOSH (North Battleford): Mr. Speaker, I have a question to direct to the Minister of Railways and Canals. The question concerns the construction of railways in northern Canada. My question is this: May I ask the Minister of
[Sir George Pcrley.l
Railways if he has given any consideration to the construction of Canadian National Railway facilities in north western Canada, particularly in the great, developing and fertile belt of territory lying between Edmonton and North Battleford where a good deal of grading was done years ago and where the business men and farmers to a man are in special need of more adequate railroad accommodation?
Hon. R. J. MANION (Minister of Railways and Canals):: It is needless to say, Mr. Speaker, that the hon. gentleman has already drawn this matter to my attention a number of times. The matter is of course engaging the attention of the management rather than of the government, though the government is just as much interested in it as my hon. friend. This project is in exactly the same position, as other extensions to the railways which are needed, or which are thought to be needed in various parts of the country. The railway management up to the present has not recommended further expenditure on the branch lines suggested by the hon. gentleman any more than they have on other branch lines which have been projected but construction of which has been held up due to the depression. However, the estimates of the Canadian National Railways will be before the select committee of the House of Commons in a very short time, and the whole matter can be gone into there. I frankly cannot tell the hon. gentleman whether there is anything in the estimates for that railway. There may be a small amount but I certainly cannot promise a very large amount due to the very heavy drain on the Canadian National Railways because of world conditions generally and the business depression.



ANYOX SMELTER AND MINE

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. OLOF HANSON (Skeena):: I have a question to direct to the government. Has any information been received from British Columbia concerning the possibility of the closing down of the Any ox smelter and mine, which would throw over a thousand men out of employment?


Right Hon.   S@: I have seen a copy of the telegram that was sent on that subject to the hon. Minister of Labour. It seems to me that the obvious answer at the present time is that the provincial government should immediately look into that question themselves.

Elections Act



ELECTORAL LISTS-PRINTING

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Right Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING (Leader of the Opposition):: I should like to ask the hon. Secretary of State how he is getting along with the printing of the voters' lists.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: Why bring that upl


Charles Hazlitt Cahan: Up until March 4 there were 4,201,639 names in type, and lists comprising 3,029,690 of that number have been printed, bound and delivered to the franchise commissioner. While I have not the exact figure, I understand that the total number of names on all the lists will be about 5,800,000. As a matter of fact I believe that four or five lists have not yet been delivered to the printer owing to some irregularity, and of course we can only print them when we receive them from the franchise commissioner. If the total number is
5,800,000,	that will leave 1,600,000 names to be put in type, and we can put those names in type at the rate of 90,000 or 100,000 a day, so if we are pushed to the limit we can put them through in from sixteen to twenty days. But if it is not necessary to work so many hours a day, including night work, we probably will not have the lists completed before April 1.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: How did my hon. friend know that I was going to ask that question?
Mr. OAHAiN: I did not know that the right hon. gentleman was going to ask the question, but I receive daily a little slip like that to which I am referring. It so happens that this slip was delivered to me late last evening and I put it in my vest pocket.



WESTERN POULTRY MARKETING

[Stage Direction]
On t'he orders of the day:
Mr. W. G. WEIR (Macdonald):: May I ask the Minister of Agriculture bow he is getting along with the plebiscite in the western provinces?


Hon. ROBERT WEIR (Minister of Agriculture) :: If the hon. member will look up Hansard, my last answer still stands.
Mr. W'EIR (Macdonald): May I be permitted to ask the Minister of Agriculture another question with respect to this plebiscite in the western provinces. I believe that some time ago he stated that the responsibility for declaring whether or not this
scheme would be made operative rested with him. Is he going to be able to announce the result of the vote before declaring whether or not the scheme will be put into operation?


Robert Weir: That will be taken into consideration. At the present time I do not think I can add anything to what I have already said. We shall have to wait until the returns are completed. The answer I gave the hon. member was to the effect that as soon as the returns were completed an announcement would be made.



DOMINION ELECTIONS ACT

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Edward Joseph Garland: Can the Secretary of State inform the house whether the government has under contemplation at the present time any further amendments this year to the election act?


Charles Hazlitt Cahan: It may be under consideration, but I have not known of any material alterations to the election act which are likely to be proposed.


Edward Joseph Garland: Or to the franchise act?


Charles Hazlitt Cahan: I do not think that any amendments to the franchise act or to the election act have been drawn up in the form of a bill. I have heard discussions among members on both sides of the house as to whether, in relation to the preparation of new electoral lists, the lists as now being prepared and printed should not be deemed to be the official lists for the present year. As to whether the franchise act might not be amended so that the preparation of the new lists would begin at a later date than April 1 of this year, that is merely a matter which I have heard discussed, but I do not think that any decision has been reached with regard to it, and I do not know that it has become a question of discussion by the members of the government.



CANADIAN RADIO COMMISSION

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. W. D. EULER (North Waterloo):: I noticed in the press the other day a statement to the effect that the radio commission proposed to expend $1,000,000 on public broadcasting stations. Will t'he Minister of Marine tell the house whether that statement is founded on fact.
Supply-Railways-Tourists


Alfred Duranleau: There is nothing definite yet. I know that the commission has some scheme of construction in order to give better service to the country at large.


William Daum Euler: Any construction?


Alfred Duranleau: There is nothing definite yet.



RAILWAYS AND CANALS

[Stage Direction]
The house in committee of supply, Mr. MacDonald (Cape Breton) in the chair.
To assist in promoting tourist business in Canada, $200,000.
Robert James Manion: I intend to make a brief statement
to the house in regard to this item inasmuch as it is a new branch of government activity which is of the utmost importance, I think, to the whole dominion. In a sense, the tourist traffic has become an industry on a very large scale. For example, it is stated by our department of statistics that in 1929 the tourist industry was worth to Canada
8309,000,000; that is to say, $309,000,000 was spent by tourists coming to this country.


Samuel William Jacobs: That was before the repeal of the Volstead Act.


Robert James Manion: Yes, but even with the
repeal of that act tourists have come regularly; and to be fair to those who have been coming into the country I may make this statement. I well remember looking into the question on one occasion, and it was found that a very small proportion of them, even in the days of the Volstead Act, bought liquor permits in Ontario; I should think the proportion was about fifteen per cent I make that statement in justice to the tourists. In other words, they came to see this great country rather than to indulge in anything but the pleasure of travelling.


Mr. WOODSWORTH:: Can the minister
give us some basis on which these estimates are formed? I have heard estimates, but I have not heard any reasonable basis for them.


Robert James Manion: I understand that the
method followed by the department of statistics is something of this sort. They make inquiries of a large number of tourists coming to Canada from the various sections of the United States, and by averaging these returns they get a general estimate; and naturally it must be general. I do not sup-

pose there is any possible way of obtaining exact figures in this regard, but I have no reason to doubt that in a general way the figures given by the department are reasonably correct.


Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver):: There
are also the various provincial organizations.


Robert James Manion: Yes, they get information from various provincial organizations in all sections of the country, and they approach the matter as accurately as they possibly can. I will repeat the figure. For 1929 it was over $309,000,000, but owing to the depression, from which the tourist business as well as other industries has suffered, the returns estimated for 1933, four years after the crash, amounted to $117,000,000, on the same basis of computation. It is estimated however that in 1934, this past year, the tourist traffic had gone up twenty-five per cent as compared with 1933, and it is hoped, and I think with good reason expected, that the tourist traffic in the coming year will be very much higher than it was in the past year.
I made it my business this morning to get some figures from the department of statistics in regard to exports from Canada of various products, just in order to enable hon. members to compare our tourist traffic with our exports of certain lines of commodities. I have already given the tourist figure for 1933, and in 1934 it was supposed to have increased by about twenty-five per cent over the previous year, so that the figure for 1934 should be in the neighbourhood of
8140,000.000 or more. I have not the actual estimate of the department of statistics, but on the basis on which they have made their calculations it should be 8140,000,000. Our exports of wheat in the past year amounted to 8131.000,000; newsprint, 882,000,000; nickel, $29,000,000; planks and boards, 826,000,000; wood pulp, 825,000,000-all round figures. We also exported bacon and hams to the value of $23,000,000; fish, $21,000,000 or $22,000,000, and whiskey, $20,000,000. I notice that if the items comprising forest products -newsprint, planks and boards and wood pulp-were added together, it is probable that the figure would be in excess of that given for the tourist traffic. But the figures that I have given I think demonstrate to the committee quite easily the great importance to the dominion of this invisible export, the tourist traffic.
I may at this .moment pay my respects and compliments to the committee in the other house led by Senator Dennis, which inspired

Supply-Railways-Tourists
the government toward this new line of endeavour. I may say quite frankly that for many years I have felt the dominion under all governments has been neglectful in regard to the encouragement of tourists coming into Canada. This traffic has always appeared to me to be something to which we should have given vastly more attention than we have. But Senator Dennis called together a committee largely made up of newspaper men, if I remember rightly, which met for the first time in May of last year. Before the Senate adjourned, the committee made to that body a report which was passed on to the House of Commons, and by August 1 we had on their recommendation organized the tourist branch of the Department of Railways and Canals. I want to offer great praise to Senator Dennis and his committee and indeed to the other house for the splendid work they did in this regard, because they urged upon the attention of the Canadian people the importance of this industry, and by their unanimous support they convinced the government that it was an industry upon which we should spend a good deal of money and which we should encourage in every possible way.
May I say in that regard-and I may as well say this here as elsewhere-that the daily press of Canada also deserves a great deal of praise for the splendid cooperation which they have given not only to the Senate committee but to the tourist branch of my department and to the government in general to encourage this work. They have, without return on their part or at least without return in anything like a proper proportion to the services they have rendered, done splendid work in that regard to spread the tourist psychology, if you will, throughout this country. I think the newspaper's of all political colours, of all religious sects if you like, and newspapers, financial and otherwise deserve a great deal of credit from the dominion for the splendid work they have done in this respect.
Having organized the tourist branch of my department by August 1, we appointed, again on the unanimous recommendation of Senator Dennis and his committee, Mr. Leo Dolan as director of tourist traffic. Mr. Dolan had been for some years in charge of the tourist industry in New Brunswick where he had done splendid work, and it was the opinion of the Senate committee, comprised as it was of all political colours, that Mr. Dolan would be a most suitable appointee. While I did not know him at all, I was glad, after discussing the matter with the Senate committee and
others, to have Mr. Dolan appointed, and he was appointed. He has done wonderful work. Incidentally he has travelled throughout the country. On a number of occasions since Mr. Dolan was appointed and made his trip to Vancouver and Victoria, incidentally dropping off at various points and addressing service clubs of many kinds, various hon. members opposite as well as a number on this side have written to me complimenting the government upon the fact that one with so much enthusiasm, so much knowledge of the subject, had been appointed to deal with this question. Due to his visit, due to the Senate committee's report and due to the splendid cooperation of the daily and weekly press of Canada, we have I think given to the country a leadership whicih cannot help but be useful to Canada as a whole in the returns which we shall get.
I may make it quite clear at this point that it is not the intention of the dominion government in any way to replace the work of the many tourist organizations throughout the dominion. We have for example provincial organizations in all the provinces; we have also many municipal organizations; the railway and steamship companies in addition have branches which assist in bringing tourists to our country, and there are many other organizations of one kind or another which must in the aggregate spend many millions of dollars in encouraging tourist traffic to Canada. Therefore it is obvious, since last year at least we were given $100,000 to utilize for this purpose, it could not be and was not the intention of the government in any way to replace these organizations or to take upon ourselves any of the work done by these individual associations for their own sections of the country. It is merely the desire of the government and the tourist branch of my department to coordinate so far as we can the work of these different bodies.
We have had on many occasions complaints from certain sections of the country that in the advertising we did we were not doing sufficient to call attention to their splendid tourist opportunities. But we have made it clear that in all our advertising we must be national; it cannot relate to any particular section of the country, because if it did so we would be taking on the work of the tourist organizations in those sections. Therefore, so far as we can and without fear or favour to any section, our advertising has been of a national character, and it has been and continues to be our desire as far as possible to make our advertising national.

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It is obvious to all the members of the committee that no government would dare to do more than that. I make this statement here so as to clear the air so far as any individual section of the country is concerned in regard to the illustrations which we have sent out and the advertising which we have done in the past and are doing to-day. The first advertising copy in one of the United States magazines came back to me this morning, and I am sure my hon. friends who see it will be pleased with it. We have given illustrations of various sections of the country; we have endeavoured to touch in a national way the maritimes, Quebec, Ontario, the prairie provinces and British Columbia, all of which have their claim upon this expenditure. But we have not specified, even in the advertising, where these scenes lay in our country. It is our endeavour to avoid if possible anything in the shape of unfair preference of one section to another or to do anything that may make one section feel it is being neglected by our boosting some other.
To illustrate again the importance of the industry, may I say to the committee that the oil interests of the United States last year distributed 50,000,000 road maps to people purchasing gas at their stations. This illustrates the immensity of this industry. California estimates that the tourist industry is worth $250,000,000 a year to that state even at the present time. Maine, a little state which in a sense projects up into Canada, estimates that the tourist industry at the present time is worth well over $100,000,000 to it, and anyone who has visited that delightful state knows its people have many reasons to be encouraged by the splendid work they have accomplished. But I give those figures to illustrate to the committee the vast proportions to which this industry can be built in our dominion; in fact it has been estimated that provided business comes back as we all feel it is doing and a recovery takes place as it seems to be doing at the present time, within the next few years, say five or six, the tourist industry ought to be worth to Canada something in the neighbourhood of $500,000,000 per annum. That will illustrate perhaps better than any other idea that I can give, the importance of the matter.
It is estimated that 30,000,000 to 40,000,000 people of the United States travel during the vacation period from one section of that country to another or from their country to others including of course Canada. It is worth while remembering that for years our people in a sense have not recognized the
[Mr. Manion.J
value of this industry to Canada, and to-day due to the activities of the Senate committee, the government department, and the daily and weekly press, the people generally throughout the country are becoming tourist minded.
May I say at this moment that I should like to emphasize three items that appear to me to be of the utmost importance to the dominion if we are to do all we can to encourage this industry. In the first place we must have courtesy on the part of all our officials, I mean customs and immigration officials, and I say at once that this is not said with any idea of reflecting on any of them, because the reports we are receiving from all parts of Canada are to the effect that those officials from coast to coast are endeavouring at all times to be so pleasing to the people who pass through that they are winning the hearts of the tourists who come here. But every now and then some individual, overly officious, does some little thing which is not entirely of sendee to the dominion. Another matter which I think is of the utmost importance-and incidentally I have run across the odd exception to it- is that we must have honesty - and fair dealing among our merchants, hotel keepers, hot dog stands if you will, and so forth. In other words, we must endeavour to see that our people, in the interests of Canada as a whole and of their own section in particular, treat the stranger coming here fairly and squarely as they would treat their own nationals. They must not endeavour to take all the traffic will bear. An incident which occurred when I was motoring in a certain section last summer will serve to illustrate the point. My wife and I stopped at a little hotel for lunch. The price seemed rather extravagant for the kind of lunch we had, and out of curiosity when I stopped up the street to get gas I asked the gas station attendant how much the hotel charged for lunch, and he named a price one-third less than I had paid. It does not help the tourist traffic if any of our people do that sort of thing; it leaves a bad taste in the mouth of a visitor and does not lead to favourable publicity. Another feature which I think is of the utmost importance is the general courtesy of the people. May I say to the people of our sister province of Quebec that on a number of occasions when I have visited Quebec by motor car, nowhere in the world have I been shown greater courtesy, have I found a more charming politeness or a greater desire to please. In other words, due no doubt to the immense tourist traffic that they have,

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probably the largest in Canada with the exception of the Niagara frontier; to the magnificent highway around the Gaspe peninsula; to the fact that they have been reaching out for tourist traffic and that they border on the great rich state of New York, the people of Quebec have become tourist minded. I think it is only fair that the rest of our people should know of the courtesy which the people of Quebec show to everyone driving through there, the anxiety of everyone of whom you ask a question to help and to oblige in every possible way, in order that the rest of the country may profit by that example and practise the same.
That our people generally are endeavouring to be pleasant to those who come within our borders is well illustrated in a letter which I shall take the liberty of reading to the committee without giving the name of the gentleman who wrote it. I hope I shall be forgiven and not called to order for reading this. It is dated January 26 last addressed to Mr. Leo Dolan, the director of our Canadian travel bureau:
My short visit to Canada in 1934 and my slightly longer visit in 1932 were marked by nothing but the greatest courtesy on the part of everyone with whom I came in contact. The graciousness with which your office complied with my request for automobile road maps was the first step; thereafter my contacts with Canadian officials of all kinds, immigration officers, policemen, traffic officers, customs officials, etc. were uniformly pleasant. It is perhaps a little out of place for me, a native born citizen of the United' States, to say that I only wish that our officials were as courteous as the corresponding Canadian functionaries. Having travelled extensively in Europe I find that the Canadians have the happy faculty of combining old world politeness with new world progressiveness. In the United States we are so busy doing heaven knows what, that we do not seem to have the time enough to be courteous. Maybe we will some day acquire a little Canadian courtesy. I hope so.
I look forward to visiting your wonderful country again and hope some day to see Banff and Lake Louise, the great beauty of which I have heard from many of my friends. When that time arrives, I will again avail myself of your kind offer.
I read that not to make comparisons, which are odious at any time, but such a pleasing letter from an American to a Canadian official certainly is cause for gratification and satisfaction. If that spirit towards incoming visitors is generally shown it cannot but help this great and important industry.
Canada with its great stretches of woodland, its hunting and fishing areas, and its splendid lakes and rivers, is a magnificent vacation land.


Mr. DUPUIS:: And its handicrafts.


Thomas Reid: And do not leave out the
mountains.


Robert James Manion: Yes. Not long ago, in
our boastful Canadian way, I said at a club luncheon that I had been about Europe a great deal-I have visited it several times, and have seen most of its beauty spots-that I thought a counterpart of any of them could be found in Canada. A European who was present spoke of it afterwards with a rather pitying laugh; yet I think that anyone who has travelled from coast to coast in our country and visited the mountains or the lake regions-I do not wish to specify particular sections, but in various parts of our country, or that beautiful valley in Nova Scotia of which we all know-


Ernest Lapointe: And the rock of Quebec.


Robert James Manion: I do not wish to start
mentioning provinces, but those who have visited any of our delightful tourist sections will I think agree that generally speaking we have scenery equal to that of any other part of the world. After all, when you think of the immensity of our country and the splendid work done by nature during the ice age, I take it, in shaping the lakes and the courses of the rivers and making huge waterfalls and pushing up the Rockies, there is no reason why we should not have just as fine scenery as any other country of the world.


Mr. GOTT:: And the greatest bird sanctuary in the world, and the world's greatest naturalist.


Robert James Manion: However, without dealing
with individual sections I feel we have a splendid opportunity to develop in Canada a great vacation land.
Ninety per cent or more of our tourist traffic comes from the United States. That is natural, and that being so we should and we are seeking particularly to attract tourists from the country to the south. After all we have common tastes and to a large extent a common language and common business interests and instincts. Our frontier restrictions are few. And in reaching ever larger numbers of tourists from the United States not only do we stimulate the tourist business but it is a very useful advertising medium; when we encourage Americans to come here for their vacations in the summer, they may return later for business and make investments.
Indicating the importance of the tourist traffic to the agriculturist, an estimate was given to the tourist committee in th" Senate
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by one economist that in one year tourists visiting Canada consumed 4,000,000 pounds of butter, 18,000,000 pounds of meat and 4,000,000 dozen eggs. Those are large figures, but they show that even the farmer, who may not seem to get direct benefit from the tourists, does actually benefit to a large extent.
In regard to the advertising campaign that has been and will be carried on, I may say that we endeavour to advertise in such a way that all sections of the country are served. Last year we got organized too late to bring anybody here for the summer, but there was still the hunting and perhaps the late fishing season and we put advertising in newspapers. from coast to coast. We advertised in forty American papers in twenty-three different cities and seventeen states, and according to the circulation figures of the papers in which this advertising was carried we reached over
10,000,000 readers. We are confining our advertising largely to the northern half of the United States, because with rare exceptions the people who visit Canada come from that section. That is proven by the inquiries which we received as a result of that advertising. We received just under a thousand inquiries as a result of one series of advertisements just before the hunting season last year. In the number of visitors the state of New York naturally leads; next comes Illinois, then Ohio, Wisconsin, Indiana, Iowa, Maryland and Minnesota. This shows the states from which we are going to get our heaviest tourist traffic.


William Daum Euler: Is it not possible that the
reason the majority of inquiries came from the northern states is that the advertising was confined to those states? My suggertion would be that if you advertised in the southern states as well you might get a proportionate number from there.


Robert James Manion: I think there is reason in what my hon. friend says, but at the same time it seems apparent that we shall naturally get a large number from the states more or less adjoining our own borders. Therefore with the limited amount of cash available last year we felt we should limit the advertising to the northern states. Just this morning a telegram came from Vancouver urging that we extend our advertising further south adjacent to British Columbia, and as far as we can we shall gladly do that. But as long as the funds available are limited, as they naturally are at the present time, they will be spent chiefly in the northern part of the United States. That however does not mean that we do not reach the southern section, because, especially

at the present time, we are advertising in magazines, which of course circulate in the south as well as in the north.


William Daum Euler: What magazines are you
using?


Robert James Manion: I can give the list if my
hon. friend will ask me a little later.


Mr. SPENCER:: I understand that the
parks branch of the Department of the Interior had been doing a certain amount of advertising prior to this organization being formed. To what extent has the advertising been increased?


Robert James Manion: The parks branch was doing a certain amount of advertising, but so far as I know they did not have any distinct vote for that purpose. Certainly the parks branch did a splendid work in encouraging tourist traffic, and particularly the traffic directed towards the national parks of Canada. At the present time however we are endeavouring to bring about a coordination of the different branches which in the past took part in tourist work, and since the setting up of the tourist branch of my department we have taken under our service a number of employees from the parks branch. In the first place, we availed ourselves of the services of Mr. Dolan.
Although I had no intention to discuss the matter from this angle at the moment, probably this would be the proper point to state that after a discussion with departmental offioials it was decided that we should take over certain of the officers of the parks branch. We have therefore taken over four or five offioials of that branch, with the result that to-day we have an organization of eight people, two of whom are new and the remaining six formerly officers in different departments. One man came from the Department of Railways and Canals, and the balance from the parks branch. I believe the result is a very compact and efficient organization set up for the .purpose of advertising not only tourist advantages in general but the national parks of Canada. I believe in a general way I have answered the hon. member's question.


Henry Elvins Spencer: I take it the parks branch will not do any overlapping? The whole of the advertising will be taken care of by the organization about which the minister has spoken?


Robert James Manion: Yes. Of course we are assisted even yet by the parks branch, because there will be certain inquiries coming in from different parts of the neighbouring republic which could best be dealt with bv the parks

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branch itself. Generally speaking however, so far as possible we shall endeavour to do the greater part of the work, and to do all of the advertising in the United States.
May I say to the hon. member for North Waterloo that in a few moments I shall give him a list of the magazines. It seems to me that in addition to advertising in the United States we could, without offending the people of that country, encourage a certain amout of interprovincial traffic. Hon. members will realize that if we advocated among our own people that they should limit their movements to interprovincial travel there would be a possibility of retaliation by the other country. However, I believe we can encourage a certain amount of interprovincial travel without in any way interfering with a fair amount of traffic to the United States, and so far as I know without fear of retaliation from that country, so far as people from the United States coming to Canada is concerned.


Henry Elvins Spencer: The minister mentioned retaliation; is he afraid of retaliation from the United States?


Robert James Manion: Oh well, I think any person with a little sense in his head must realize there is always the possibility of retaliation. One does not need to carry out his idea to the point where there would be any possibility of retaliation on the part of the United States. Of course, I understand the hon. member's reference, but I do not suppose I am any more frightened of the United States than other people are. At the same time I say common sense must be used in all these matters.
So far as interprovincial traffic is concerned may I say that the decision was made, and carried out, to give to our Canadian papers a certain amount of advertising. I believe most of our daily papers in Canada did some advertising for us, for which they did not receive heavy remuneration. I believe also that some of the weeklies did some advertising. Generally speaking however I would say that 85 per cent or 90 per cent of the money for advertising will be spent in the United States. In addition to that however the amount of advertising we have done in Canada has focused Canadian attention on the importance of this matter, and as the result we find throughout Canada to-day that boards of trade, service clubs, chambers of commerce and other organizations of that type are asking for literature, asking for Mr. Dolan to address them, or for some other member of the department to appear before them and outline the latest information concerning the tourist business. Never before so far as I know has that happened in Canada.
The hon. member for North Waterloo asked about the magazines being utilized. I believe 'I have the complete list under my hand, but I do not intend to name all of them. I believe without reading t'he complete list I can give him a clear idea as to the type of magazine used. The magazine with the greatest circulation in the United States is t'he Saturday Evening Post, and in it we do some advertising. Also, our advertisements appear in Colliers, which I believe has the second greatest circulation, in the National Geographic, in Cosmopolitan, Time, Fortune, The Sportsmen's Magazine, Good Housekeeping, and so on. That list will I believe give a general idea of the type of magazine used. I believe we have picked the best type of magazine1-and of course when I use the expression "the best type" I am referring only to circulation. I am not advertising the Saturday Evening Post, but when we consider that magazine we must take note of the fact that it has a weekly circulation of nearly
4.000.000 copies, and the others I have named are in proportion. Of course advertising rates of those publications are in proportion to their circulation. Then, in addition to the advertising we give them, for which we pay the usual rates, we get a good deal of reading matter. For instance, only recently in some of t'he magazines of the United States I have seen some first class articles written by Canadian writers or by American writers who have visited this country. Of course that is the best kind of advertising we could possibly get. lit is not prepared by us, nor is it put out for advertising pin-poses, but it 'has the good effect of stimulating interest.
For example, only recently hon. members may have read accounts in the daily press regarding the achievements of that splendid force, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, upon its recent visit to New York city. These articles emphasized the fine achievements of these troopers in the city of New York, and as a result of their work many articles appeared in United States magazines. As a matter of fact I have noticed a series of articles running in Cosmopolitan.


James Layton Ralston: Hearst's International.


Robert James Manion: Yes.


James Layton Ralston: That is the Cosmopolitan magazine.


Robert James Manion: I did not know that. These articles to which I have referred are first class and must stimulate interest in the United States concerning this country.
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Although my observations have been longer than I had intended them to foe there is another matter which comes to my mind and which I believe should be mentioned. We have had an interprovincial conference on tourist matters, and may 4 say that it was not paid for by the dominion government. Those delegates who came from Victoria and Vancouver on the west and Halifax on the east came at their own expense. The holding of the conference cost the federal government nothing. The enthusiasm at the conference was high, and all delegates went back to their respective provinces with the determination to encourage in every way tourist traffic to their own section. While here however they worked together and offered suggestions which were of the utmost value to the federal officials.
The suggestion has been made to me that in addition to the utilization of the daily press and weekly publications we should utilize the services of the radio. So far we have not done so, because the charge for time on an American radio program is very high, and up to the present time we have been of the opinion that we are getting better publicity from the daily press and magazine publications than we could get' over the radio. We have decided to publish a booklet costing about S20.000, because from all points in the United States and Canada we receive requests for compact information. The booklet now being prepared will be issued upon completion.
I may observe at this point, as well as any other, that some complaints came from one or two sections of the province of Quebec to the effect that the literature issued did not appear in the two languages. In reply may I say that it must be obvious to all hon. members that as our tourist traffic comes chiefly from the United States there would be no value in having the information prepared in both languages. A very heavy expense would be incurred and no good purpose would be served. The traffic for which we are reaching and which we hope to get-and I am sure will get-is from the American republic.
Then, in addition, we have a number of minor endeavours being carried on. For instance, the Keystone Automobile Club of Philadelphia have put up a proposition whereby we may reach all the hotel directories, such directories having a circulation of 250,000 copies throughout the United States. Some of the publications contain travel stories. Then, there is the counter distribu-

tion of travel literature concerning the Dominion of Canada. For only a small expenditure the American Automobile Association has agreed to distribute maps of Canada to people who may desire them. I do not believe I shall take up further time of the committee, but I thought hon. members would be interested in obtaining the information *1 have endeavoured to give in a compact form.
I believe members of this chamber and members of t)he Senate could do much towards giving assistance to organizations which are connected with this very important industry in the Dominion of Canada.


Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):: Of course,
Mr. Chairman, I am deeply interested in the statements of the minister. I am somewhat surprised however to note that he seems to have awakened to the fact that tourist traffic is of great importance to Canada. The minister seems to be of the opinion that this is an innovation on the part of the present government. The strange fact is that according to figures he supplied, and which were received from the department of statistics, the tourist traffic in Canada in the year 1929 was valued at $300,000,000. I have no complaint to offer in connection with anything the minister has said. I believe the government are taking a step in the right direction, and I hold the further belief that they were recreant in their duty when they did not continue the policy which was in operation when they took office in 1930. Had they done so I do not believe there would have been a drop in the tourist traffic. To be quite Kir to the minister and the government, may I say that I recognize conditions which prevailed in Canada as well as in the United States were bound to have a depressing effect on tourist traffic. But I do just want to point out that there is not one single thing which the minister has announced this afternoon which was not being undertaken in 1923, 1924 and onwards.


Robert James Manion: There was none of it undertaken.


Charles A. Stewart: I beg my hon. friend's pardon.


Robert James Manion: I shall deal with that when my hon. friend sits down.


Charles A. Stewart: I shall be
very happy to have my hon. friend do so. I want to point out to the minister that through the coordinated efforts of the boards of trade in the1 various cities of Canada this organization, while not set up under the control of one individual as my hon. friend states

Sup-ply-Railivays-Tourists
will now be the case, was working in conjunction with the railways which spent very large sums of money; and this country was widely advertised through the immigration agencies of the United States and through the lecture tours conducted by Major Rogers, who went into every state of the union where his services were required. The happy condition that prevailed in 1929 would have been impossible without the efforts that were made in that direction. Next I want to say to my hon. friend that there was an organization in the Department of the Interior, an organization that this government scattered throughout the various departments and whose work ceased from the time this government took office because no effort was made by this government to continue that work.


Robert James Manion: It continued just exactly
as my hon. friend and his department had carried it on.


Charles A. Stewart: I beg my
hon. friend's pardon, because I happen to know something about the Department of the Interior and the parks branch. The parks branch continued, yes, but not the work of the officials of the Department of the Interior who were particularly engaged in tourist work. Not only that, but the efforts put forward to bring industries to Canada were not continued because these gentlemen were moved to other departments and their efforts in that direction ceased.
I am behind every effort that will be put forth by this government to secure tourist traffic, but I must take exception to some of my hon. friend's statements. The committee of the Senate met long ago, I think it was in , 1933, and did practically the same work that was done recently, as mentioned by my hon. friend, and it is not correct for my hon. friend to say that no coordinated effort was ever undertaken by the government of Canada. True, we did not have $100,000 to spend, we did not have $30,000-


Mr. CASGRAIN:: You did more work
with less money.


Charles A. Stewart: I do not
m'ake that statement at all because naturally more work can be done with more money, and I am behind this vote to the fullest degree. I am simply saying that the statement of the minister was unfair. I am glad to hear him say that men who were formerly in the Department of the Interior and who were removed from their positions are going to be taken back into this organization. As for the man who is in charge, I happened to 92582-94
know him in the old days. He was a very efficient officer in his sphere of activity in the maritime provinces, and we could not afford to leave out any province in our endeavour to encourage tourist traffic.
The only complaint I have to offer is with respect to my hon. friend's statement to-day that this is something new, that it is another new deal, as we hear so often these days when the government is speaking of old things dressed up in new clothing, I will admit, but carrying on in exactly the same way as they did before this government ever took office.
I hope that under the management of the minister now placed in charge a more earnest effort will be put forward. Indeed, I am sure it will, because the minister is energetic; he is connected directly with the railways, which is important, and he can work acceptably I am sure with the parks organization; so I think we can look for splendid success in this endeavour. But what I am complaining about is that men who have really put a lot of effort into this thing, men who brought about the happy condition when, according to the minister's own words, we had very substantial return from the endeavour, much more substantial than to-day-although I am not critical on that score-these men are left altogether outside the sphere of the minister's statement, exceipt that he did say, when it was drawn to his attention, that the parks had done something in this connection. There was very much more activity than that outside of the parks altogether, and even at this late date I, myself am getting requests as a result of the maps that we distributed, which the minister mentioned as one part of the activities, and a splendid activity it is to send maps into every part of the United States-I am getting letters to-day as a result of the maps we sent out, which I simply turn over to the Department of the Interior. Now that the government has decided to change the minister in charge-and I am not complaining about that because that is their business-I hope he will embody in his organization these men who have received such splendid training and give them a chance to put into use their knowledge and experience in this connection. I hope that he will cooperate most closely with the railways, because the railways and railway advertising are very helpful in encouraging tourist traffic. But the minister has really announced nothing new except that he is armed with more money, with which undoubtedly he can carry on a much wider and more effective scheme of advertising.
REVISED EDITIr"
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Robert James Manion: Mr. Chairman, I do not wiah to get into a political discussion in any shape or form in connection with this matter, and furthest from my mind was the thought of reflecting on the hon. gentleman opposite in anything I said. I studiously tried to avoid that very thing, not that I had anything to reflect on him about, but the last thought in my head was to make a comparison between the old government and the present. I must, however, take exception to the hon. gentleman dragging in some of the statements he did. I hope we Shall not allow this to degenerate into a political discussion because it is one subject upon which I think that all members of this house from all sections of the country and representing all parties are agreed. The tourist traffic is for the good of the country generally, and I hope that we shall not allow this to degenerate in any shape or form into a political discussion. I did not rise this afternoon with any thought of making political capital out of it. I did mention the parks branch and say that they had done good work, so my hon. friend was not fair in his reference, and he is all wrong in saying that the work was not being carried on under this government as it was under the old government. That work has always gone on. We did not do away with it at all.
My hon. friend also said that there is nothing new in this and that we have just awakened to the importance of the tourist traffic. Personally I have fedt that this government as well as the late government neglected doing just what we are now doing. I am not saying that for political reasons at all. The figures I have given show the importance of this industry to Canada, and we should do * all we can to encourage it.
The hon. gentleman brings up, unwisely I think, the fact which I pointed out myself, that our tourist traffic decreased greatly between 1929 and 1933. I gave the figures showing that it had, and I admitted it, but that had nothing to do with this government or with the late government. It was due to the crash that came in the latter part of 1929 and to the world depression when people simply did not have the money to travel. People who were struck by the stock market crash, people who lost their business, naturally were not in a position to travel into Canada or from Canada to the United States.
The hon. gentleman also referred to the splendid work that the Department of the interior under the late government were doing in regard to endeavouring to bring industries to this country. May I say to him that I know some work that they did
	,	; __ulJ
that was very costly and just as useful as a boil on the neck. I remember when the hon. gentleman was in charge that his department, for example, made an industrial survey of the city of Fort William, which cost thousands of dollars.


Charles A. Stewart: No, it did not.


Robert James Manion: I know differently.


Charles A. Stewart: May I correct my hon. friend? That survey was made by a paid official of the Department of the Interior in conjunction with the board of trade of Fort William, and the cost was divided. No money was expended by the government of Canada except the salary and expenses of the individual.


Robert James Manion: The salary and expenses
of the individual? Well, he spent almost a year doing it and he brought out two volumes which nobody on earth would ever read, and which were just as useful to Fort William or to this government or to anybody as a boil on the neck. But I do not want to get into a political discussion.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Oh, no.


Robert James Manion: I do not think my hon.
friends across there will accuse me of being unfair if, the hon. gentleman having criticized me unfairly, as I think he did, I retaliate to the extent of showing that there were useless things being done under his government that we are not carrying on. But I want to keep this discussion on the plane on which I started. My hon. friend dragged politics into it, but I have certainly no desire to do so. We might, of course, if we wanted to do so, get a little political advantage out of it, but for the sake of this country I do not want politics to enter this discussion at all. I shall not deal any further with my hon. friend's statement except to point out that when he says I neglected the railways-


Charles A. Stewart: I never
said that you neglected the railways. I merely said that as Minister of Railways the hon. gentleman was in a splendid position to coordinate the work.


Robert James Manion: He mentioned the railways and steamships and implied that I had neglected them.


Charles A. Stewart: No, I did not.


Robert James Manion: Then I will accept the
hon. gentleman's word and withdraw, because

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I do not wish to get into any dispute about it. I simply wish to say that we have been cooperating with the railways and the steamship companies. In fact, in all the literature we send out we ask the people in the United States to call at the nearest railway or steamship office-because the Canadian Pacific Railway, the Canadian National Railways, the Canada Steamship Lines, the Clark Steamships and some other lines have offices in various sections of the United States, catering particularly to the tourist traffic, and that saves us a great deal of effort. People can go to whatever tourist or ticket office may be in their neighbourhood and obtain such information as they may desire. I do not wish to turn this subject into politics. Earlier in my remarks I made certain complimentary references to the efforts of the Senate committee, and I stated that the government had endeavoured to carry out their report. Indeed, I gave all the credit to Senator Dennis' committee for the splendid work they had done, and I hope my hon. friends will endeavour, as I will, to keep this subject on a plane other than the political, endeavouring to assist this great industry as far as we possibly can.


Charles A. Stewart: I want to
refute one argument which the hon. gentleman has made, and that is with reference to the man who was employed by the Department of the Interior to assist the boards of trade in an economic survey of their localities. He never went except at the request of the boards of trade, and the statement that he was months making his survey cannot possibly be true. To my certain knowledge, he was never more than two or three weeks in any city. Of course, he had the active cooperation of the officers of the boards of trade, and if my hon. friend will look up the files of the Interior department he will find there many complimentary letters with reference to the services which this gentleman rendered. I have no desire to make this a political controversy. My hon. friend rather misunderstood me. What I wanted to direct his attention to was the suggestion that this was the first attempt on the part of the government of Canada to encourage tourist traffic into Canada, and in reply to that I merely refer him to the fact that there would not have been
1300,000,000 worth of tourist traffic in Canada at the time his government took office if there had been no coordinated effort.


Robert James Manion: I did not say that, but
I did say that we had a committee appointed now for the first time.


Charles A. Stewart: I must
take exception to that statement. I want to be absolutely fair, and I think my hon. friend wants to be fair too-


Robert James Manion: And he is.


Charles A. Stewart: -and that is not true.


Mr. STINSON:: I am very much interested in this vote, as there is in my riding one of the finest tourist districts in the dominion, namely, the Kawartha lakes and the highlands of Haliburton. That whole section is dotted with lakes and rivers and has all the natural beauties which appeal to the tourist. The county of Haliburton has 550 named lakes and just as many unnamed, waiting for the tourist to christen them. This is a vote that should commend itself to all members of this house by reason of the annual crop to be harvested from it and its possibilities for increase. The Dominion Bureau of Statistics shows that in the peak year 1929 Canada's tourist trade had a value of $309,379,000. By 1933 this had shrunk to $117,124,000. The evidence before the Senate committee last year set $500,000,000 as the objective of a progressive, permanent program of Canadian tourist trade promotion. We should set up a tourist bureau to "sell Canada" to the world, as no other country has more to sell by way of scenery or a greater variety than we have. Ontario has been getting between seventy and seventy-five per cent of the tourist trade coming into Canada. In 1929 we had in Ontario 11,685,000 persons, which figure in 1933 dropped to
7,796,000.	Now therefore is the time to make a strong effort for this trade. In 1929 the American tourists spent outside their own country $869,000,000. Ontario has many ports of entry easy of access. Within twelve hours we have 20,000,000 persons adjacent to the province of Ontario-tourists who may come from the states of Michigan, Illinois, Ohio New York and Pennsylvania. These states all have paved roads right through to Ontario. Ontario has 6,000 miles of paved roads to take care of them when they arrive. The tourist crop is an annual crop which does not impoverish the land. It is not a wasting asset like a gold mine or an oil well. You can sell the scenery year after year and your only expense is advertising and developing ways and means of attracting the tourists. The road wear and tear they pay for in the gasoline tax. Everybody benefits from the tourist traffic-the transportation companies, hotels, oil and gasoline refineries, bus lines, department stores-and it is said by some
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that the tourist trade helps every man, woman and child in Canada, whether they make sewer pipes or grow onions. When you consider the possibilities of increasing that trade up to $500,000,000, it is something worth going after in a big way, as it represents the sale of 700,000,000 bushels of wheat at 70 cents a bushel, which is a two year wheat crop for Canada. We have the lakes and rivers and the fish, which delight the American tourist. Let us build a national business out of it. At Bobcaygeon, which is a very progressive village on Sturgeon and Pigeon lakes, where the fishing is good, a wonderful tourist business has been built up over a number of years. An American from southern Pennsylvania, who has been going there for years to fish, got into an argument with an American from New York city as to the merits of the latter city. The man from Pennsylvania, who cares more for good fishing than for anything else in the world, said that New York could never be an important place to him because it was too far away from Bobcaj'geon. Any hon. members who doubt the beauty of the Kawartha lakes and the highlands of Haliburton I invite to spend their next vacation there. I am sure they would say with the Pennsylvanian that New York can never be great in the summer time when it is so far away from Bobcaygeon Let me say once more that this item should commend itself to every member of the house by reason of the return it will give in dividends to the citizens of Canada. I think we should all support it and endeavour to increase our tourist trade to at least $500,000,00C per annum, which would bring a dividend in some form to every citizen of the dominion.


Eccles James Gott: I suggest to the hon. member that the onion grounds to which he has referred would be well worth the attention of any American. They are six feet below the level of the lake, something which the Americans do not realize, and they are beautiful to look at.


Mr. ARTHURS:: I agree with the Minister of Railways that this item is of vast imporance to the people of Canada. We have a large tourist trade, and the hon. member for Muskoka-Ontario, who is unavoidably absent to-day, and I, represent one of the oldest playgrounds in Ontario. People have been coming there for years, and we are in the satisfactory position at the present time of having lost only a very small percentage if any of our ordinary tourist traffic. But there are immense possibilities not only along the Muskoka lakes and Georgian bay and the

famous French river country, but possibilities in vast territories not yet open to tourist traffic. This vote is therefore a move in the right direction. In the past, so far as I am aware, the efforts to secure tourists have been confined largely to the individual resort proprietor and to the railways, with possibly some slight assistance from the provincial governments and from the parks branch of the Interior department. I would suggest to the minister that as far as possible these various efforts should be coordinated. Copies of advertisements issued by his department should be sent to these various agencies I have mentioned, the railways, the resort proprietors and the provincial governments, and they in return should and, I believe, would supply this department with copies of any advertisements they issue. Thus we might coordinate our efforts, saving money and probably covering a good deal more ground. There is another point I would press on the committee and that is the advisability of advertising our own provinces in Canada. Many of us have no doubt been in the province of Quebec and have seen the great scenic beauties there, and I am sure we feel better and have a higher appreciation of that province by having visited it.
The same is true of the west, even the great mountain ranges and the beautiful resources they have there. In like manner many of our people in the west have never visited Ontario and Quebec, and I think there is at present being spent outside Canada a great deal of money that could profitably and wisely be spent by our tourists by staying at home and seeing their own country first. I do not think this will raise any controversy in the republic to the south. For many years advertisements have been published in the United States magazines under the caption: See the United States first, the same thing has been true of various other countries, and there is no reason why we should not encourage that sentiment among our own people and show them the advantage of visiting those parts of Canada which they have not already seen. By this plan there would be kept in Canada money which would be just as useful to this country as money brought here from any foreign land.
I would also point out that in my section in particular we find that a very considerable proportion of those visiting it become property owners. They acquire a small piece of property in that district and build thereon summer residences, some perhaps small, others costing many thousands of dollars. In this way they become almost regular citizens of our

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country, and they give employment to many others such as the caretaker of the cottage, the man who puts in the ice, the man who cuts the wood, the farmer who supplies the vegetables and probably meat during the summer months. This has become a regular traffic in many places giving regular employment during the summer season.
I do not propose to detain the committee further. I would only say that I am entirely in favour of this appropriation, and in doing so I think I am voicing the opinion of ninety per cent of the people of Canada.


Mr. HANBURY:: Coming as I do from
the one spot in the whole of America that needs no praising as it is recognized by people all over this continent as the one chief mecca of the tourists of this country, I wish to offer my congratulations to the government on having established this tourist bureau. I wish to congratulate the minister upon the presentation of his report to the committee and also on having chosen Mr. Leo Dolan as director of this tourist bureau. I had the pleasure of listening to Mr. Dolan when he was addressing the tourist bureau in British Columbia, and when this department is extended to the degree to which I think it should be, I would suggest that Mr. Dolan will require assistance. I believe in the Minister of Railways we have an equally enthusiastic tourist booster, so I would suggest to him that even after the change of government at the next election we may well have some place for him.


Samuel William Jacobs: It all depends on his
politics.


Ian Alistair Mackenzie: He might change again.


Wilfred Hanbury: I believe the report that has 'been placed on the records to-day by the Minister of Railways will appeal to all of us as a matter of the utmost importance. The tourist traffic is an industry that is more capable of development than any other line of endeavour we have in Canada to-day. We know the world is filled with what we have to sell and we have difficulty in selling it, but as the minister has stated, we have in this industry something that is capable of development to the point where we can all benefit to a greater extent than we have done in the past. We have the illustration of other countries. The minister mentioned the state of Maine, and we all know of Switzerland in Europe. We have our Switzerlands and Maines in Canada, and all we have to do is by advertising to show to the peoples of the world
what we have to offer them. But in doing that we have certain duties, and one of the most important-and I believe it ought to be a federal duty-is to provide the proper roads for motorists who come to Canada, so that they will see our country to advantage and return. Unquestionably tourists going from the eastern to the western part of America in too many cases use roads on the United States side. They have the very finest highways it is possible to have, and I do not think in portions of this country we can lay claim to similar roads. I believe the importance of the tourist traffic to the dominion will make it necessary for the federal government in the very near future to take over certain trunk roads, to construct certain trunk roads and to maintain them and see that they are properly operated.
The minister has referred also to the necessity for the Canadian people extending the greatest courtesy to all our tourist friends. He has referred to our officers in the customs and immigration departments and the extent to which they are cooperating with all of us in encouraging our United States and other friends to visit Canada. One other point I would like to make in that particular connection-and the minister has touched upon it- is that in tourist traffic as in trade of all kinds you cannot buy without selling, nor can you sell without buying. In other words there must be reciprocity. Reciprocity means that we must not discourage our own people from visiting the United States, and if we are to encourage our people to visit that country and to reciprocate with our cousins there, this means also that our customs and immigration officials must be equally courteous to returning Canadians, something that is not always a fact. Therefore I suggest to the director of the tourist bureau and to the minister that steps should be taken to see that returning Canadians are extended the same courtesy as that shown to our visiting friends.
There is one feature I would like to point out in connection with advertising for tourist traffic and it has not been touched upon particularly here to-day. It is a fact that throughout Canada our railroads are suffering for want of traffic and our hotels for want of trade. I believe every dollar spent in advertising for tourists will bring 'a return not only tenfold but a thousandfold and will have a tendency to fill our hotels and to make our railroads more profitable than they have been in the past. In that regard I wish to congratulate the minister again on having received authority from the government to increase this item by one hundred per cent, but I
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suggest to him and to the members of the committee that we should give this appropriation very serious consideration. I 'believe not only should we double the present appropriation, but we should even add to that; instead of $200,000, this item might very well be $500,000. Such a sum could be spent to the best advantage and would probably be the best investment we could make during the present session. I would ask other members of the committee to support, me in my suggestion that the minister submit to the government the possibility of a larger appropriation being made, and I believe if proper emphasis is given to the importance of the matter, the government will accede to the request which I know the Minister of Railways will make, so that we may have a proper contribution in order to induce tourists to come to Canada.
I wish to close with just one or two words about British Columbia. Many hon. members have not as yet visited my province; many have. To those who have been there, it is unnecessary for me to make any remarks. In British Columbia we have another Switzerland; we have everything they have in any other part of the world. Leaving the very centre of Vancouver on any day in May and sometimes in June, by taking a motor drive of thirty minutes to Grouse mountain, the tourist or the citizen or the member of parliament, may be in a winter resort where there is skiing, sleighing and the most beautiful view that the eye can see.- We have to the United States boundary and through the interior of British Columbia some very fine highways, but roads that are not to my mind sufficient for the industry which we hope to develop in the tourist traffic. We have the historic old Cariboo road; we have Vancouver island which is a beauty spot in itself, and as a matter of fact any person familiar with British Columbia and with the beauties of so many parts of that province, could talk for hours and still touch only the fringe of the subject.
The reason for my remarks in that connection is that I believe it is incumbent upon this government or any other government, this year and every year, to do more to encourage members of parliament and public men in Canada to visit the various parts of the country until we learn what we have. In that connection I wish to make a further suggestion. We are very anxious to cooperate in every way with our friends in the United States. Not only do we want them as tourists, we want them also as business partners, we want to trade with them. The people of the United States in many cases know little of

Canada. To many of them Canada signifies nothing but an expanse of ice and snow; they think there are only Eskimos and Indians up here. I suggest that some way be found whereby the members of the Senate and the Congress of the United States could be given the courtesy of the Canadian railroads so that they may become familiar with the -people and conditions in Canada.
I congratulate the government and the minister on this vote, and hope they will go much further than they have already; they will have my hearty support in doing everything possible to develop tourist traffic, and I trust the item we have under consideration at the present time will be increased.


Mr. CHURCH:: I should not have taken part in this debate were it not for the absence of the hon. member for Muskoka-Ontario (Mr. MoGibbon) who has taken a great deal of interest in this vote. In the development of the tourist industry is to be found a solution of one of the economic difficulties of this country, namely that of seasonal unemployment. I am glad to see the reception that this vote has got from hon. members representing many parts of Canada. I agree with the hion. member for Vancouver-Burrard (Mr. Hanibury) that his province is rich in its attractions for tourists, as are also the mari-times and in fact all the provinces. There has been an unfortunate failure on the part of various governments, both dominion, provincial and municipal, to make the best of this great resource. After all the wealth of this country does not consist only in its material resources of sea and soil, forest and mine, its harbours or its internal trade; one of the greatest is the character and vigor of our people. But a large number of our working people, owing to the peculiar economic conditions in large cities, receive no benefit from our salubrious climate and the great outdoors. I am glad to see the minister giving this matter his consideration. After all it is not a new topic. When I first came to the house in 1922, I urged that commutation tickets should be sold on the steam railways to give to every city of the dominion what they have on the island of Montreal and I introduced a bill to that end. The great industrial population of that city have under the Railway Act something which no other city has, a system of commutation tickets covering the district ail along the river, enabling the working people bo get out and enjoy the attractions to be found there for four or five months of the year. I wish to commend the present minister who gave his support to that bill which I introduced. The people of the United States,

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England and France after the war were given cheap fares on the railways for week-ends and holidays and if the same thing had been done in Canada it would have been of the greatest value to the railways, giving them a considerable income. But what happened? The railways ignored the opportunity, with the result that a system of good roads was established, and now motor buses and trucke are robbing the steam roads of a great volume of traffic, especially in the summer. Take the sporting events, such as the hockey and football games between Toronto and Hamilton, Montreal and Quebec, or Montreal and Ottawa; do those teams use the railways? No, they can take a bus right from the clubhouse door to the scene of the game and come quickly back in less than half the time necessary by railway.
Coming from the province of Ontario, I believe in the principle of confederation; each for all and all for each. What is good for tourist trade on the Pacific coast is good on lake Winnipeg and the great lakes and the maritimes. There is no country in the world with greater attractions for tourists and sportsmen than Canada, both winter and summer. But we are far behind England and continental oountries and even the United States in the development of tourist trade. We have spent billions on railways and canals and ships, but we are not making full use of them. We have the great lakes with their possibilities. In earlier days on lake Ontario there were many large passenger boats; on the line between Toronto and Niagara millions of people were carried by three or four large boats, but to-day that trade is taken care of by one large boat and one smaller one. The city of Toronto has pioneered in this work, it has established the great Canadian National exhibition, which has been the backbone of tourist trade as far as that province is concerned. Toronto has spent nearly $20,000,000 for extensive grounds and magnificent permanent buildings and exhibits without any help from this parliament and little from the provincial government. These grounds and buildings are owned by the taxpayers of Toronto. We have also established a great winter fair which attracts tourists in the winter. Critics say there is nothing like it except in Chicago and New York. I do not see my hon. friend the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Weir) here or his predecessor (Mr. Motherwell)but I say the only help that the winter fair got from this parliament was a contribution towards one of the smaller buildings. Toronto has also a fine harbour and has established a beautiful island which is a priceless asset to the city.
I am referring to Toronto as an illustration of what can be done by a municipality, because this vote should be supplemented by the provincial and municipal authorities from the Atlantic to the Pacific. We have got to take a leaf out of the book of the United States. The great Theodore Roosevelt was the first to realize what the tourist trade could mean to the United States in connection with the Panama canal, which is paying its way to-day owing in some considerable degree to the tourist trade. They have been pioneers. The people of the United States, like the British-born, take a great deal of pleasure in attending sporting events and going to the country for week-ends. This vote is but a little one, it will be used mainly in advertising. In the session of 1922 a return was brought down in the house, moved by the hon. member for Sherbrooke, showing the proportion of cash taxes paid by the central provinces of Ontario and Quebec, and that proportion was 79J per cent. As I say I believe in the principle of each for all and all for each. Here are two provinces that have been overlooked as far as tourist trade goes. Ontario has the great lakes, the Muskoka district and the lake Simcoe and Georgian bay district. Up to a few years ago there was not a good road in the whole region but it has now a magnificent system of roads. Just last week after a meeting with my hon. friend the member for Muskoka-Ontario (Mr. McGibbon) at Brace-bridge, I moved for an order of the house for a return relating to a national park in the Muskoka-Georgian bay area. There should be a large park for tourists there in connection with the national railways. To my surprise I found that in that great province little or nothing has been spent. The only park that they have in older Ontario is a small island in Georgian bay, the Thousand islands and Point Pelee in lake Erie. Now that is a very small contribution. The main revenues of the national railways are from Ontario, yet we have little or nothing along this fine.
This vote will help to solve a great economic problem, namely the need for an inrcease of markets for the farmers. I refer hon. members to page 55 of a work written by a great Conservative in England, W. S. Morrison, of whom I spoke the other day. He refers to Oliver Goldsmith and what he said in the seventeenth century. In supporting this vote we are seeking to be real conservatives, because in doing so we are attempting to save our natural resources for the people, and to develop them to the point where they will be valuable both in summer and in winter. We are trying to encourage the people to use
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our great public services, our natural resources which are to be found in rivers and streams, and around the summer resorts of our country. As Mr. Morrison states in his text book, one of the greatest results of the tourist trade in England has been the benefit it has given to the English farmer. The way money has been spent on the tourist trade, on good roads and good hotel accommodation has, indirectly, been beneficial to the farmer.
In the city from which I come only about five per cent of the people ever see lake Ontario, despite the fact that the city of Toronto is situated on the shore of that lake. We spent $26,000,000 on our harbour, fifty per cent of which was spent in industrial development and the other fifty per cent for the development of sports facilities, and so on. Toronto was the home of Ned Hanlan, whose name lingers in the minds of our people, and after whom a part of our Toronto island was named. About a million passengers are carried1 across the bay to the island in the summer time, but because they have to avail themselves of a ferry service and because *there is no bridge accommodation only a small proportion of the 'people of the city visit the island. The people who work in our industries, the men and women in factories, and the white-collar workers have no place to go for recreation. That condition is brought about by a lack of transportation facilities.
A few years ago, the national railways could to a great degree take care of the tourist business. Years ago, along the north shore of lake Ontario, from the city of Toronto to the city of Brockville there was a boat service carrying the tourist trade. Those boats carried excursions, Sunday school picnics and the like. To-day however that service does not exist. The same would apply to the boat service which used to operate between Toronto and Hamilton, Toronto and Grimsby, and Toronto and Port Dalhousie. To-day on the Toronto to Port Dalhousie service there is an old boat being used, the Northumberland. That service is used for transportation to the Canadian Henley. But it is as much as your life is worth to get on that boat. We need good, fast boat service along the great lakes. At the present time sixty-four boats of Canada Steamships are tied up. Those boats could be utilized on the lakes to solve a great deal of the seasonal unemployment.
Only a few days ago the hon. member for West Edmonton (Mr. Stewart) was speaking of student labour. The operation of these boats, I suggest, would do more towards a

solution of the student labour problem than many other suggestions which have been made. These boats run in the summer time and would offer seasonal employment to a greater extent than any other vote now before parliament. I know, as a matter of fact, that some of the .best doctors in our country worked dhring the summer months on the boats running on tfhe great lakes. Many of those iboys were our 'best students. Only a few days ago I saw a man right here in the city of Ottawa who had worked on the boats. In conclusion) I should like to read three or four sentences from the observations of Mr. W. S. Morrison concerning the development of the tourist traffic in the old land. He deals, too, with railway traffic and railway earnings, and the solution of casual unemployment by the proper development of summer resorts and institutions of that kind. Some of his observations are directed to student labour. In part 'he states:
A sign which used to flourish over some of the inns of Merrie England was called "The five alls." There were depicted the king who ruled all, the priest who prayed for all, the lawyer who pled for all, the soldier who fought for all and the farmer who fed all.
Note the expression "the farmer who fed all." A development of summer resorts would mean an increased revenue for the farmer. He continues:
The thirsty wayfarer as he entered was by these rude symbols bidden to meditate on a profound economic truth. The provision of an adequate supply of food is the basis of all culture and civilization. The king, the priest, the lawyer, the soldier faint and grow weary when there is no food. But we are a large people in a small island and at present we can feed our people for about one month out of twelve. It seems a hopeless task to attempt to raise supplies adequate to so many mouths. But if the peculiar virtues of this island are considered the problem takes on a new light. It is a most fertile place, where food grows despite all efforts to discourage it. Even now, in spite of the industrial revolution, in spite of square miles of asphalt and cobble imprisoning the kindly soil, agriculture employs more people than does any other industry. The value of the product of island agriculture is higher than the value of the agriculture of any other part of the empire consumed in this country year by year. The capacity for food raising in these island's is immensely beyond anything contemplated.	It is a powerful spring
depressed by a century of economic anarchy and its rebound has already proved startling, with the first hints of a more ordered and simpler mode of national existence.
That extract from the observations of this economist goes to show the great economic truth, namely that the development of tourist trade would be greatly to the advantage of the farmer.	That would be true of the

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farmers in the Muskoka district, the district around lake Simcoe, around the summer resort section of which Bigwin Inn is the centre, and in the Niagara district. Where do the tourists obtain their dairy products, their butter, their eggs-even the land upon which they may erect their tents? All these things they must obtain from the farmers who live around lake Simcoe, Georgian bay and in the Muskoka district, and even up into the Lake of Bays district.
I am sorry to note that the vote is so small. It is altogether too small, but possibly it represents only a beginning. At this point possibly I should refer to the open season which has obtained since the opening of the session when all three parties have been calling for social reforms. All hon. members seem to be taking part in this race. We must not forget, however, that social reform, like all other economic questions, is subject to the law of diminishing return. The more all parties combine to exploit it, the more quickly will it be worked out and die a natural death. At that point it becomes aimless, unworkable and unprincipled.
This economic truth might apply with equal force to the failure of the steam railways in Canada adequately to develop our natural resources, and to demonstrate the possibilities of summer and winter resorts. The tourist trade which would use the hotels, the cottages and other facilities would give a great amount of seasonal and casual employment during the months of May, June, July, August and September, and in some of the resorts the employment would continue during the winter.
The hon. member for Vancouver-Burrard spoke about the opportunities offered in Victoria and Vancouver. In those observations he was quite correct. As a house of commons, as a senate and as a parliament we must grasp the true significance of the great assets we have within our borders, and the possibilities they offer towards the solution of seasonal and casual unemployment. I say that this problem could be solved during at least five or six months of the year.
At an earlier point in my observations I mentioned the boat service and the fact that boats are tied up. In that connection I referred to only one city, the city of Toronto, but I have no doubt the same condition applies at other points. I note the vote has been increased from $100,000 to $200,000, but I would say that if we spent $10,000,000 or $20,000,000 we might go some considerable distance towards solving the problem of casual and seasonal unemployment. Especially
would that be true of the student class, the young man attending the universities and high schools. Boys and girls leave these schools in the middle of June and do not return until about the middle of September. As a house of commons I suggest we might do a great deal towards helping to place them in some sort of employment. The interest of industry should be directed towards the youth of eighteen years.	In
England that condition now exists, and has been brought about through the efforts of the Conservative government in that country -while the government may have a Labour leader, yet I say that it is the Conservative party in England which has solved the problem. How have they done it? They have created throughout the country an interest in the youth of eighteen years. However,
I shall not elaborate upon this point, as I wish to conclude my observations. May I state briefly, however, I believe as a house of commons we might do something towards solving the problem of obtaining work for the high school pupils who have no employment in the summer months. Despite the millions of dollars spent in technical education, they have difficulty in finding work.
I have touched on only two or three of the principal topics which arise under this important vote, but I hope at the next session we will see in the estimates provision for an expenditure of $5,000,000, $10,000,000 or $15,000,000.


Eccles James Gott: Mr. Chairman-


Mr. CAMPBELL:: Mr. Chairman-


The CHAIRMAN (Mr. MacDonald, Cape Breton):: The hon. member for Frontenac-
Addington has the floor.


Eccles James Gott: If you had eyes in the back
of your head you could see me any time.


Milton Neil Campbell: I do not wish to take
up much of the time of the committee in joining in this provincial scenery selling publicity, or in the discussion now taking place, but I do feel as much could be said about my constituency as may be said about many others. The hon. member for Leeds knows what the Rideau lakes district is like. I believe my section of the country will receive a large share of the tourist traffic coming to Canada, and can advertise itself. My reason for rising at this time is to point out to the minister that in each province at the present time there are what might be described as publicity or tourist bureaux, each of which carries on a similar work to that which it is proposed the federal bureau will perform.
14S4
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I was wondering if it would not be advisable to have some sort of cooperation between the provincial bureaux and the one under federal supervision, so that there would not be too much duplication.


Robert James Manion: That is being considered
at the present time. To a large extent that is the object of the federal bureau.


Milton Neil Campbell: I should like to endorse the observations of the hon. member for Van-couver-Burrard; I feel the vote should be increased. As the hon. member pointed out, it may be possible to build up an advertising agency which would be more central. This afternoon nothing has been done or said to indicate that radio has been used as a medium for advertising. It may be that radio advertising would be expensive, but if some of this vote were judiciously spent for radio advertising, by means of which a first class word picture of certain points in Canada might be given, it would have the effect of drawing large numbers of tourists from other points on the American continent, thus resulting in better returns for the money spent


Mr. SHAVER:: Mr. Chairman, it is a
pleasant interlude in the political controversy which has been raging in this house most of the time since the beginning of the session to see the unanimity with which members of all shades of political opinion are agreed as to the necessity of a large vote for promoting tourist traffic in the Dominion of Canada.
Many members have dwelt upon the scenic beauty of the districts from which they come, and I am sure we are all agreed that no country of the world has such a variety of scenery to delight the tourist as has Canada. But there is one point that has perhaps not been mentioned to any extent and that is the fact that no country on the American continent has so many historic places as Canada has. I well recall the thrill which I received when I visited the old historic city of Quebec and thought of how it was linked up with the very birth of civilization on the north American continent. These historic places impress our friends from across the line, though perhaps not to the same extent as they do Canadians, but still to a very great extent indeed. Go to any of these historic places and you will find American tourists by the score, visiting them, taking notes and taking snapshots of places of interest.
The county which I have the honour to represent is a very historic part of the province of Ontario. It was settled first by the United Empire Loyalists, and there are many

places there to attract the attention of the tourist and to which tourists frequently come. One of them is the old historic church of St. Andrews, a Roman Catholic church about six miles north of Cornwall. The old church, which is now used as a parish hall, was built in the year 1789, and it is a fine old building. In the beautiful cemetery adjoining it the first premier of Ontario lies buried, also Simon Fraser, that great explorer with whose name I am sure our friends from British Columbia are familiar because he gave his name to the great Fraser river which flows through their province. There is also the Cornwall grammar school, founded by Bishop Strachan. over a century and a quarter ago.
But I am particularly interested in this vote because in my constituency is located the only bridge across the St. Lawrence river in the international section, the bridge at Cornwall which was opened last summer by His Excellency the Governor General. Many members of the House of Commons were present at the official opening. The bridge is connected with all the main trunk highways in northern New York and fronts upon No. 2 highway in Ontario, running along by the St. Lawrence river on the Ontario side and connecting up with the city of Montreal. It is the most natural route for any American tourist to take who is coming to Canada from all the central and eastern sections of the United States. Crossing that bridge to get to highway No. 2, and turning to the right, you go to the town of Cornwall, and then straight for about eighty miles into the city of Montreal. If on leaving the bridge you turn to the left you can follow No. 2 highway to Toronto, or going to Morrisburg you can then turn straight north to the city of Ottawa. Taking another road slightly different you can go to the Seigniory club or to other scenic spots in Quebec north of the Ottawa river.
The minister mentioned that most of the advertising which the department has done in the United States has been confined to the northern states. I think it is a very good idea that part of the advertising at least should be extended to the southern states as well. One living on No. 2 highway, as I do, has many opportunities of forming an estimate of from what sections of the United States the tourists come, and it is a very common thing to see cars from California, Carolina, Texas, Georgia and other southern states. They are attracted by our northern climate and are likely to come in increasing numbers if the beauty of our country is held out to them.

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There are two bridges on either side of Cornwall island, and connecting these bridges there is a fine paved highway across the island, the whole making a driveway of great scenic beauty. Many compliments have been paid by tourists to the courtesy of the officials on the Canadian end of the bridge, both customs and immigration officers. The minister has spoken of the fact that a great deal of advertising has been done by booklet, the distribution of maps, advertising in magazines, and in other ways. I would strongly urge upon him, if he has not already done so, the advisability of marking upon the map particularly the Cornwall bridge, because, as I said, it is the only bridge in the international section of the St. Lawrence river and the attention of tourists should be drawn to it because it provides a very safe and convenient method of getting into Canada.
I would also mention that eighteen miles west of Cornwall at the village of Aultsville, where I live, a convenient ferry crosses a placid and very pleasant portion of the St. Lawrence river. Any tourist who prefers to cross by ferry might choose that method of crossing and perhaps find a little bit of romance in it if he has not crossed on a ferry before. I would like if it would be possible for this point on the river also to be marked on the maps.
I agree with what other hon. members have said as to the necessity of encouraging as much as we can tourist traffic to this country. It means a lot particularly to the people situated along these highways. It means considerable additional revenue for them during the summer months, and there is an educational value to it as well because many of these Americans stop for a time and in conversation with our Canadian people we learn something of that great land to the south of us.
It was suggested by an interjection in the debate that perhaps the tourist trade from the United States to Canada had fallen off since the repeal of the Volstead Act. I would not agree with that at all, because it seems to me that the proportion of our American friends who came to Canada in order that they might escape the effects of the Volstead Act in their own country was very small indeed. I think that at least ninety-nine per cent of our American friends come to Canada because of its scenic beauty and historic spots, and that they may become better acquainted with their neighbours north of them and help in establishing that bond
of international good will which I am sure we all wish to develop between these two great nations.


Mr. McDADE:: Mr. Chairman, may I congratulate the minister upon the clear-cut and comprehensive review which he has presented to this house of the activities of the Canadian travel bureau. I recall that last year when the special committee of the Senate was set up under the chairmanship of Hon. W. H. Dennis to study this question, various witnesses from all parts of this country came before that committee to give testimony. The initial meeting of the special committee was on the second day of May, 1934. The report was submitted to the Senate on the twenty-second day of May and was approved by parliament on the third of July, and a director, Mr. Dolan, was appointed on the twenty-fourth day of July. I mention these facts, Mr. Chairman, to point out that when a man of the capacity and energy of Mr. Dennis sees fit to tackle an important project he discharges his duties in an eminently satisfactory manner. I agree with the remark of the minister that Mr. Dennis is one of our public spirited citizens. He is a man of large business interests, running, as he does, the Halifax Herald, one of the most important of the daily press of the east and indeed of the dominion.
Coming from the province of New Brunswick I naturally take special pleasure in congratulating the Minister of Railways upon his selection of Mr. D. Leo Dolan as director of the Canadian travel bureau. Mr. Dolan is a native of the celestial city of Fredericton, the capital city of the fair province of New Brunswick, and in addition to other qualifications he is a convincing platform speaker. He is an outstanding organizer, a former newspaper man in the east, known in other parts of Canada, and withal he is an energetic worker. It is therefore with pardonable pride that as a former newspaper associate of Mr. Dolan in Fredericton and elsewhere, and a former official reporter of the legislative assembly of New Brunswick, I take this opportunity- to make these few observations and to express my thanks to hon. gentlemen opposite for their flattering remarks with regard to the director. Of course, I appreciate the fact that the appointment is in no sense a political one, nor is this question in any way a political issue. I submit however that this is the first time in the history of this country that the various tourist activities carried on by boards of trade, railway tourist departments and other agencies have been coordinated under one head. It is true that in the past some
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work has been done by various organizations, town councils, boards of trade and chambers of commerce, but it was only last year, under the chairmanship of the committee in the other house, that a concerted effort was made to coordinate these various interests, and I think it can be said that the results already achieved indicate the wisdom of the step then taken.
It would be perhaps unfair if, in view of the remarks we have heard this afternoon regarding the beauties of particular sections of Canada, someone from the east did not rise to stress the advantages which we enjoy in that part of the country from the tourist point of view. We have in New Brunswick some of the greatest big game hunting grounds in the world; that is admitted. We have, particularly in the Miramichi and Restigouche sections of New Brunswick, probably the best rivers for salmon in eastern Canada, ideal from the angler's point of view. And in Miramichi and Tabusintac bay we enjoy the best duck, brant and goose hunting. There are also first class hotels and splendid boarding houses. I can assure my hon. friends that a characteristic Miramichi welcome awaits the visitor, and at any time that hon. gentlemen on either side of the house wish to spend a pleasant holiday we shall be quite pleased to welcome them. I can promise them a cordial reception.
I should not like to take my seat without making some further reference to the facilities for goose and brant shooting at Tabusintac bay. This is one of the ideal spots in the world for goose and brant shooting, and some of the wealthiest sportsmen in the United States make annual trips to that area for this form of recreation. The outfitters are well equipped to provide them with everything they require, and one of the best camps to be found anywhere is included in the ample accommodation.
I hope that funds will be available to the Canadian travel bureau to extend its work to the continent of Europe, because I believe that there are possibilities there for tourist traffic to Canada. I am happy to associate myself with the previous speakers in endorsing this vote, and I am glad to have had this opportunity to say a few words regarding our striking scenic beauties, our big game hunting grounds, and the facilities for shooting and fishing in New Brunswick.


Eccles James Gott: I wish to apologize to you,
Mr. Chairman, for the rude remark I made to you a moment ago. Having risen eleven different times, and in my opinion having been first on my feet each time, naturally
[Mr. McDade.}
like many other hon. members I lost my equilibrium and directed to you the remark, "If you had eyes in the back of your head you could see me." I beg to offer you my humble apologies.
With such unanimity of sentiment in this house on this question it would be a pity that there- should be any note of discord, but the hon. member for Temiscouata having just come in, he may oppose the vote. Let me say that I represent a part of this country that advertises itself without any vote for tourist purposes. I have the honour to represent a constituency ini which there is the greatest bird naturalist in the whole world, because in my riding there- is the sanctuary of Jack Miner, which attracts thousands and thousands of tourists every year. We do not need a vote in the House of Commons to draw people to the Miner sanctuary. I am not going to oppose the vote, whether the hon. member for Temiscouata opposes it or not, except to say that it is too small. In Essex county we have some beautiful parks. Point Pelee national park and those at Kingsville, Leamington and Amherstburg, and we have delightful swimming beaches, bathing beauties and large mosquitoes.


An hon. MEMBER:: And onions.


Eccles James Gott: Well, we have probably the
largest and finest onion fields in the whole Dominion of Canada. While I am on that point, I want to correct my hon. friend from Toronto East (Mr. Church); Point Pelee is not an island. The hon. gentleman should study geography a little closer; if he does he will find that Point Pelee is part of the mainland, though there is an island known as Pelee island. They also grow onions at Pelee island, but the onion fields at Point Pelee are worth a visit. I would commend it to anyone crossing the border. I would also suggest that hon. members of this house who have not done so should see our huge tobacco fields and the corn belt in Essex and Kent counties as well as our beautiful orchards, not to mention the different grains we produce in Essex and Kent. A visit to these counties would be well worth their while. As regards the Peace bridge and the Rocky mountains, and their scenic beauty, I venture to say that they have none of the exquisite pastoral beauty of the onion blossom. We have the only alkali plant in the whole dominion at Amherstburg.


An hon. MEMBER:: Alcohol?


Eccles James Gott: I did not say alcohol, but we have one of those too. There is in the riding I represent the largest tomato plant in the
MARCH 6, 1935	14S7
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world, purchasing every year over a million bushels of tomatoes from the farmers in that section. Altogether, the beauties that are to be found in the county of Essex, not only the Miner bird sanctuary, but our beautiful river and lake drives, are well worth the while of any tourist who comes across the border. We have several direct routes of communication. There is a vehicular tunnel between Dertoit and Windsor, the ferry service, the railway tunnel and the international bridge, all ideal means of communication between the United States and Canada. On behalf of the people of Essex county, I extend to hon. members of this house and to visitors from the United States a cordial invitation to visit us. I congratulate the minister on bringing down this vote and on the fact that he has secured the services of one who is so thorough in his work to take charge of this department, in the person of Mr. Dolan.


William Daum Euler: It is perhaps unnecessary for me to enlarge upon the tourist industry since all hon. members who have already spoken are entirely in favour of this vote. I might suggest here to the minister, or perhaps to Mr. Dolan, who has been so highly spoken of, and properly so I suppose, that he might very well avail himself of tire propagandist activities of some of the members of this house, using them next year throughout the United States to advertise the beauties of their own particular districts. I do not propose to do that myself, because the advantages of the community from which I come are so well known as to make that quite unnecessary. I rise to make merely one or two observations which I think are of some importance.
There are to imy mind three or four essentials in the promotion of the tourist industry as it is called. The first is perhaps to enhance as much as possible the natural attractions which we have in this country; second, to make them accessible by the construction and maintenance of good roads. It seems to me that that is absolutely necessary. The third is to make those attractions thoroughly well known, especially in the United States, by means of advertisements and otherwise. While I am speaking of that I would say this-and this is what I rose to say perhaps more than anything else-the very best advertisement we can get for Canada as a place for tourists to visit is to satisfy those tourists when we once get theim. There are several ways in which that may be done. In the first place, When they enter the country, the way in which we treat them is of the utmost importance. I can remember very well some years ago in
the Department of National Revenue, when a tourist entered Canada with a motor oar he could get a permit for only thirty days, a period which in many cases was not long enough. We increased that to sixty days and later to three months. Then again we made the tourists bond their sporting equipment, rifles, cameras and things of that kind. Those regulations have all been wiped out, and I have no doubt that the practice then adopted is now being continued by the Department of National Revenue. The same principle should be adopted by the Immigration department; that is, put as few obstacles as possible in the way of the tourists at the border and once you have them in the country, let them be given accommodation that will make them go away thoroughly satisfied. It might be quite possible for the minister by means of some of the appropriation now being voted, by a species of propaganda right in this country to impress upon those who are serving the tourists, to give them a fair deal and not to try to extract extravagant prices by way of rates for hotels or meals along the highway. That is very important. Any tourist who leaves Canada feeling that he has been imposed upon, although this may be some very little matter, goes home and talks to his neighbours. If he can say a good word about his trip, that will do more good to the country generally than anything that can be done by way of advertising.
That is all I had intended to say except this, in conclusion. If this industry can be brought to such large proportions as some have suggested to-day, such as $300,000,000, or $400,000,000, or perhaps half a billion dollars, it is worth while to spend a little more money than we are 'being asked to vote now to bring about that result. Last year the appropriation was $100,000; this year it is being increased by another $100,000, but $200,000 is a mere bagatelle when one considers the proportions which the industry may reach by means of more advertising and other ways of promoting it. I would like to say to the minister, if this is any satisfaction to him, that I and I think all hon. members on this side are quite in accord with what he desires to do. I think nearly all of us would be quite willing to vote a huger sum, believing it would be money thoroughly well spent if it were properly spent in the promotion of tourist traffic, and in order to obtain for this country such a large income as from $300,000,000 to $500,000,000.
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Olof Hanson: Touriste are not interested in turnips.	[DOT]


Mr. MYERS:: I might go on; we are proud of having the best mutton and lamb to be found anywhere in Canada. Then one of the attractions is the passage from Cape Tor-mentine, New Brunswick, in that palatial car ferry the Charlottetown, run by the Department of Railways. It is a real treat to cross in that magnificent ship. On one deck there are three railway tracks which can accommodate sixteen standard railway cars; you drive your automobile right on the upper deck under its own power, and that deck carries from fifty to sixty automobiles. So you have no trouble in getting across. The only weak link is the railway between Sackville and Tormentine, which is not up to the standard. On another occasion, possibly when the estimates of the Minister of Railways are up, I may have an apportunity to register a protest with reference to the service we are receiving on that line.
In conclusion, in order to make way for my hon. friend from Marquette, let me just say that one's education as a citizen of Canada is incomplete until he has visited Prince Edward Island.


Mr. MULLINS:: We have listened to a
description of the beauties of Prince Edward Island, Ontario, and the lower parts of Canada, but I say to hon. members that until they have visited Manitoba and the great west they have not seen Canada. Although hewn out of the forests only a comparatively few years ago, one of the most beautiful spots in all Canada is the Riding Mountain national park, situated in the constituency I have the honour to represent. We have also an international park in the southern part of the province. We cannot go back to the days of Jacques Cartier and Cabot or those historic events in the early history of Canada, but we can show you wild life in its natural state. We show you the buffalo, the elk, the moose, all within a few miles in that park. And we can show you one of the most beautiful lakes in all Canada, called Clear lake-not salt water. We have also in that park-and it was taken care of by the Minister of the Interior-a well the waters of which will cure a wooden leg. Go and drink of that water and I care not what is wrong with you, it will cure you of anything in the way of inward troubles.


Vincent Dupuis: Would it cure even the
government?


Henry Alfred Mullins: I hope the minister will include in his estimates a sum to help us in Manitoba. We have tourists coming into the park from the Dakotas and from Minnesota and all that western country, and once they come they always want to come back. I can guarantee that if those of you who live in the east and w'ho think so much of your country down here will come to Manitoba and take one look at that beautiful lake and Riding Mountain national park, you will enjoy it as we do.


Henry Elvins Spencer: May I remind the committee that the largest and finest buffalo park in the world is in the centre of Alberta, in my constituency.


Robert James Manion: Apparently it is the desire of the committee to go on a little longer with this, but before six o'clock I would like to say a word or two in reply. May I first express my deep and sincere appreciation of the kindly cooperation shown by hon. members from all parts of the house, and their interest in this great industry. I do not think by any means that this discussion has been a waste of time; the opinions expressed by hon. members on both sides have been helpful. It has been suggested that the amount of money appropriated for this purpose should
Questions

be increased. I hope the time will come to do that, but I doubt if there is much chance this year. I have received many suggestions that would be useful, and I thank hon. members for their advice and cooperation. I do not want to talk out my own estimates, so I shall sit down.


Olof Hanson: This seems to
be a free for all, and as so many have risen to compliment the minister on this vote I should like to say a few words on behalf of British Columbia. If it is too late now I would like to reserve the right to speak next time.


Robert James Manion: Then call it six o'clock
and we shall go on another day.
Progress reported.


[Stage Direction]
At six o'clock the house adjourned without question put, pursuant to standing order.
Thursday, March 7, 1935