1931-04-16

Right Hon. R. B. BENNETT (Prime Minister) moved:: That the recommendation submitted by the Civil Service Commission under section 12 and section 61 of the Civil Service Act for the classification of the position of assistant chief of the debates translation branch and laid on the table of the house on March 23, 1931, be approved.
Those who have been following the proceedings of the chamber will have observed in the journals of March 23 the report submitted by the Civil Service Commission some tivo years ago. That classification was made, and for the better organization of the staff now working in that branch it is regarded as essential by the Civil Service Commission, by you, Mr. Speaker, and by those in charge of the house that this classification now should be made effective. It involves an increased charge on the revenues of S260 per annum.


Right Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING (Leader of the Opposition):: Who is the
official?


Richard Bedford Bennett: He will have to be appointed by the commission. This is merely the authorization.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: I suppose the
Prime Minister could not indicate who the appointee is likely to be.


Richard Bedford Bennett: I am bound to say, Mr. Speaker, that since the advent of the new government we are never able to anticipate the actions of the commission.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: I was just about to remark to my right hon. friend that I assumed the appointee would be a Liberal.


Richard Bedford Bennett: If history and custom
are to be followed certainly there will be no chance for a follower of any other party.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.


[Stage Direction]
Bill No. 26, respecting the Restigouche Log Driving and Boom Company-Mr. Hanson (Y ork-Sunbury).
Bill No. 27, respecting the Subsidiary High Court of the Ancient Order of Foresters in the Dominion of Canada-Mr. Chevrier.
Legislation in Saskatchewan

Mr. SPEAKER:: I have the honour to
inform the house that I have received the following letter:
Ottawa, April 16, 1931.
Sir:
I have the honour to inform you that Hon. Mr. Justice Neweombe, acting as deputy of His Excellency the Governor General, will proceed to the Senate chamber on April 16, at 3.45 p.m. for the purpose of giving the Royal Assent to certain bills.
James F. Crowdy,
Assistant Secretary.



LEGISLATION IN SASKATCHEWAN


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. OSCAR U BOULANGER (Belle-chase) :: Before the orders of the day are
called I wish to put a question to the right hon. leader of the government (Mr. Bennett) based upon statements made by followers of the government and even by ministers of the crown in relation to recent laws passed by the legislature of Saskatchewan. In those statements these laws have been condemned and the hope has been expressed that they may be repealed. My question, therefore, is this: In view of these statements is it the intention of the government to take steps to have these laws repealed, either by disallowance by the governor in council under section 90 of the British North America Act or through the enactment by this parliament of remedial legislation in accordance with section 93, paragraph 4 of the British North America Act?


Richard Bedford Bennett: Mr. Speaker, I intimated some days
ago that I was wholly in accord with the hon. gentleman's own chief in his statement made some years ago that questions as to policy or having to do with the intentions of the government should not be put on the orders of the day. However, I can assure the hon. gentleman that his representations will be given due weight. I gather that he suggests that the power of disallowance, which has been in abeyance now for half a century, should be used by this administration. I refer him to history, and he will ascertain in that way what is the correct course to be followed in a ease such as he has suggested.



ASSISTANCE TO RETURNED SOLDIER

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. P. J. VENIOT (Gloucester):: I have
a case I should like to submit to the government, having to do with a returned soldier

who was all through the *war; who was in the army of occupation in Germany and who returned home incapacitated but never applied for a pension. Lately, under the new act, he applied for pension and his case was heard, but the decision was unfavourable. The case is now in appeal, but last winter he was so incapacitated that he could not support his family, which consists of four or five children, and he was helped out by friends and relatives. Now he wishes to do a little farming, but he i3 not in a position financially to secure the necessary seed. Can some arrangement be made to help him out, either by the Department of Pensions and National Health or under the arrangement which has been made to provide seed to needy farmers in the west?
I do not expect an offhand reply to this request, but I would ask that the Minister of Pensions and National Health, or perhaps the right hon. Prime Minister acting in his capacity of Minister of Finance, take the matter into consideration and let me know ii anything can be done in such a case. I do not wish to put on record the name of the man; I think it would be humiliating to him, but I will submit the name to the Minister of Pensions and National Health. I can assure him that I am conversant with the whole case and that it is meritorious.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: Order. The matter to which the hon. member is referring is one for correspondence rather than a subject which may be properly brought up on the orders of the day.


Peter John Veniot: All I ask, Mr. Speaker, is whether the matter will be considered.


Hon. MURRAY MacLAREN (Minister of Pensions and National Health):: If the hon. gentleman will give me the name privately I shall have the matter looked into and give all the information I can.



AIR MAIL SERVICE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
William Lyon Mackenzie King: I desire to ask the Prime Minister a question which I intended to raise yesterday had we reached the orders of the day. In the morning Citizen of April 15-yesterday-there appears a statement by the Postmaster General (Mr. Sauve) concerning which I should like to make an inquiry. The item reads:
A statement from the Prime Minister on the government's policy with respect to the air mails will be made in the House of Commons,

Air Mail Service
probably to-day or Thursday, declared Hon. Arthur Sauve, Postmaster General, when asked if the reduction in respect of this service in the estimates for the current fiscal year indicated that any or all of them would be discontinued. Mr. Sauve himself would not say what action %vas contemplated.
Then appears in quotation a statement which the Postmaster General is alleged to have made:
"It is the function of the Prime Minister, in his capacity of Minister of Finance, to make any statement in connection with this. I have nothing to say," Mr. Sauve observed.
The question I wish to ask my right hon. friend is, first, whether he has a statement which he will make to the house on the subject referred to; and, secondly, whether the statement of the Postmaster General, as reported, represents the theory of ministerial responsibility as entertained by the Prime Minister in agreement with his colleagues. Is it to be understood that, on matters which are 'departmental, as well as on matters of general policy, all information will be given to parliament through the Prime Minister and not by the minister in charge of the department concerned? To make my meaning clear, I quite understand that the Prime Minister, as Minister of Finance, would make a statement of general policy with respect to financial or other matters. But when it comes to departmental matters, the custom heretofore has been, and I believe the British custom is, that the responsible minister in charge of a department is the minister of the crown holding the portfolio, and that he should be the one to advise parliament and the country on departmental affairs.


Hon. ARTHUR SAUVE (Postmaster General) :: If the right hon. the leader of the
opposition (Mr. Mackenzie King) will allow me to see the statement he has read, I will answer in proper time.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: The Postmaster General is very kind. Would he tell me what the proper time would be? Can he tell me that offhand without first speaking to the Prime Minister?


Arthur Sauvé: I may inform the leader of
the opposition that I will give the information in proper time, on the estimates.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: On the estimates? That may be several months from now. This is a pressing matter at the moment.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Order.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: The item which I have just read to the house refers to a 22110-41
statement which it was said by the Postmaster General himself would be made in this house either yesterday or to-day. Is that correct or is it incorrect? Part is in direct quotations.


Arthur Sauvé: That is my answer to-day.
Mr. CAMERON R. McINTOSH (North Battleford):	Mr. Speaker, I -have a question
to ask further to that asked by the right hon. leader of the opposition (Mr. Mackenzie King) in connection with the -air mail developments. The other day I put a question to the Postmaster General (Mr. Sauve) but I was declared to be out of order. I suppose that ruling was made because my question bordered somewhat too close to a request for a declaration of policy by the government. I have no desire to have that interpretation put upon my question. I was wondering whether or not the Postmaster General has any definite information with regard to these western air mail developments, and if he can give us an approximate idea as to when he will make a statement to the house and to the country.


Mr. ERNST:: Mr. Speaker, I desire-


Mt. McINTOSH:: We -ought to have something definite on this matter.


Mr. CASGRAIN:: Is that the New Postmaster General standing in his place?


Pierre Édouard Blondin: No question has been
directed to any minister of the crown.


Cameron Ross McIntosh: Mr. Speaker, my question-


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Order, order.


Cameron Ross McIntosh: -was directed to the Postmaster General and he is a minister of the crown.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: I understood the h-on.
member to say that he was wondering in regard to a certain matter; that requires no reply.


Cameron Ross McIntosh: Another excuse.



IMPERIAL CONFERENCE

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. PETER McGIBBON (Muskoka-On-tario):: I wish to ask the Prime Minister
whether the report in one of the Ottawa newspapers on Tuesday last, that the Imperial conference would be adjourned by reason of the adoption in England of the quota system of purchasing wheat, had any foundation in fact.	.



Dominion-Provincial Conference


Richard Bedford Bennett: There is no foundation for such a
statement as far as the government is aware.



DOMINION-PROVINCIAL CONFERENCE

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. ERNEST LAPOINTE (Quebec East):: Will the Prime Minister say when we may expect the report of the recent Dominion-provincial conference?


Richard Bedford Bennett: I do not know that any report will
have been prepared until such time as the resolution is submitted to the house for approval. I may inform the hon. gentleman that the conference was called for the purpose of considering section 7 of the Statute of Westminster. That section was not prepared in England. It was left to us to prepare, and a meeting of the representatives of the provinces and of the Dominion was called for the purpose of drawing up such clause. That clause has been prepared. The premier of one of the provinces desired, while approving of it, to submit it to his colleagues, and he expected that by the 22nd day of April they would have had an opportunity to express their opinion with respect to it. I will not say immediately, but as soon as the business of the house will permit thereafter, the resolution embodying approval of the statute as drafted wall be submitted to the house for its consideration.


Ernest Lapointe: Then no official proceedings of the conference have been recorded?


Richard Bedford Bennett: Except in this sense, that a secretary was appointed who kept minutes of the proceedings, the submission of a draft clause, the appointment of a committee, and the arrival of a conclusion. That is all.


Ernest Lapointe: Will that be kid on the table?


Richard Bedford Bennett: The secretary has not
prepared any formal draft of it, because nothing was done except to consider that one clause, and that will be laid before the house.



TRACADIE, N.B., DREDGING

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Peter John Veniot: I wish to call the attention of the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Stewart) to a series of resolutions which I received to-day in the mail from the board of trade of Tracadie, county of Gloucester, New Brunswick, in relation to dredging going on there. I will not read these

resolutions but will pass them on to the minister if he wishes. However, I will read the first paragraph:
Having been informed that the work of dredging carried on by Dredge No. 12 in Tracadie harbour has been ordered discontinued by the Department of Public Works, this board in special meeting assembled do hereby strongly protest-
It goes on with a series of whereases. If the minister will accept this resolution from the board he may let me know later on what the intentions of the department are.


Hon. H. A. STEWART (Minister of Public Works):: I shall be pleased to receive the
communication from the ben. gentleman and have the matter investigated.



PEACE RIVER OUTLET

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. OLOF HANSON (Skeena):: I wish
to ask the Minister of Railways and Canals (Mr. Manion) whether he has received the report of the Peace River-Pacific outlet railway survey. I asked him the same question before the house adjourned for the Easter recess. He informed me at that time that he was in communication with Premier Tolmie of British Columbia and expected to receive an answer from him as to how the survey was progressing. If he has not yet received that report, I should like to know whether it will be tabled when he does get it.


Hon. R. J. MANION (Minister of Railways and Canals):: Prior to the hon. gentleman's question I had written to Premier Tolmie and I am informed that the report is before that government. It is rather voluminous and they have not had time properly to go into it. It has not yet been tabled in the provincial house and therefore I am not in a position at the present time to table a copy of it. When I am able to do so I shall lay it on the table of the house.


Olof Hanson: Will it be presented?


Robert James Manion: When I get it. I have
not yet received it.



AGRICULTURAL CREDIT

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. A. L. BEAUBIEN (Provencher):: In
his capacity as Minister of Finance, will the Prime Minister inform me whether we can get any details, if it has started to function, with respect to the financial corporation formed last winter?

The Address-Mr. Parent


Richard Bedford Bennett: The financial corporation to which I
fancy the hon. gentleman refers is a credit corporation created by private enterprise and not through governmental action. The last advice I had, which was verbal, was that they had succeeded in securing subscriptions amounting to some $3,000,000 and that the corporation would function at a not distant date.


Arthur-Lucien Beaubien: It has not functioned
yet?


Richard Bedford Bennett: Not so far as I am aware.


Mr. JOHN VALLANCE (South Battle-ford) :: In view of the fact that it was mentioned in bis speech at Regina, may I ask the Prime Minister whether he is in communication with the financial corporation at all times?


Richard Bedford Bennett: The answer would be in the negative.



TELEPHONE DIRECTORIES

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Mr. JEAN FRANCOIS POULIOT (Temis-oouata) :: Mr. Speaker, may I inquire of the
hon. Minister of Public Works (Mr. Stewart) if the members will be supplied shortly with new telephone directories for the House of Commons.


Hugh Alexander Stewart: Mr. Speaker, I shall take the hon.
gentleman's request into consideration and hope to be able to meet his wishes in this respect.



DAMAGES BY FRENCH TRAWLERS

[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
William Gordon Ernst: Mr. Speaker, I desire to direct the attention of the hon. Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Rhodes) to despatches which appeared in the Halifax papers to the effect that French steam trawlers operating off the coast of Nova Scotia were doing serious and wilful damage to trawls and other equipment of the Lunenburg fishing vessels. I took the trouble to telegraph to find out whether or not these reports were accurate and I have been informed that such damage is being done and apparently wilfully. I realize that this is an international matter, but I would ask the hon. minister whether any action is contemplated.


Hon. E. N. RHODES (Minister of Fisheries) :: Mr. Speaker, so far as I am aware no communication has been received either by myself or by my department from Captain
Parks. I observed the reference to this mattei in the press, and in addition to that I received a telegram from Mr. Mosher of North Sydney directing my attention to the situation. Communications have been sent both to Mr. Mosher and to Captain Parks asking for full details as to the vessel's names, the names of the trawlers, and if possible the location and extent of the damage. As soon as this information is at hand the necessary representations will be made through the proper channels.


Mr. DUFF:: As a shareholder in the vessel in question I am very pleased to hear that answer.



SPEECH FROM THE THRONE


[Stage Direction]
The house resumed from Tuesday, April 14, consideration of the motion of Mr. Max D. Cormier for an address to His Excellency the Administrator in reply to his speech at the opening of the session, and the proposed amendment thereto of Mr. Mackenzie King.
Mr. L. E. PARENT (Terrebonne) (Translation) :: Mr. Speaker, In resuming my remarks on the address, interrupted by the adjournment of Tuesday evening, I draw your attention once more to what the speech from the throne says concerning cooperation and unity in Canada. I repeat the quotation:
In prosperity they were united. In adversity that union is made still stronger by the spirit of cooperation and mutual understanding which is the surest bulwark of the nation's welfare and happiness.
The right hon. Prime Minister (Mr. Bennett) who is the author of the speech from the throne and who put these fine phrases into the mouth of His Excellency has not, in the past, practised what he preaches. Did the right hon. Prime Minister and his Conservative followers preach union, cooperation and mutual understanding for the safeguarding of Canada's welfare and happiness during the last campaign? They did not. Wherever they addressed public meetings, before election day, our opponents went to unbelievable lengths of crowd-baiting in their determination to uproot the people's trust in those who had governed the country for the past ten years. They showed the situation in a false light, they appealed to prejudice, they stirred up the most baneful leanings of the populace; they went so far as to twist public opinion in a very harmful way. Were they striving thus to ensure the happiness of Canada's citizens?
The Address-Mr. Parent

I state it as my sincere belief that this spirit of harmony and confidence was the result of ten years of good government under the prosperous Liberal regime.
The speech from the throne goes on:
These attributes of Canadianism are national assets of real value, and, upon their possession, I do profoundly congratulate you.
This paragraph of the speech from the throne makes His Excellency pay a well-deserved tribute to the Liberal party who endowed our people with these national assets of Canadianism.
Mr. Speaker, these "attributes of Canadianism" are in large part due to the policy of peace and harmony of the Liberal administration, unfailing in their consideration and respect towards minority groups in matters' of language, of education and of creed.
Canadianism is a word pregnant with meaning, like patriotism, like "Canada First"; but it is upheld by acts, by deeds; it is not an empty cry and, mayhap, a deceitful one.
Mr. Speaker, Canadianism is to be found only among those who understand and truly observe the prerogatives handed down to us under the British flag which every Canadian subject is proud to wave beside our own national emblem.
Where is the Canadianism of our Conservative friends? Let us take as a sample these biting words, born of hate and anger, uttered by the right hon. Prime Minister on June 10th, at Calgary, and reported in the Leader Post. Speaking of the Liberals, he had this to say:
They make a plaything of people's lives, why? Do they realize that they are playing with lives, with food for women and children, with hunger? Nine years of wasted effort before the great betrayal. Judas took less time.
Mr. Speaker, is that preaching union, cooperation and mutual understanding to the country?
Or, take what he said of the Liberal party at the outset of the election campaign:
This group of mercenaries who hang on to power through sham and subterfuge, look upon them as traitors to your cause.
When a political leader uses such language, which is beneath his dignity, is he upholding the spirit of cooperation and mutual among the citizens of his country? Is this sort of low spell-binding the proper method for safeguarding the welfare and the happiness of a nation, does it enhance respect for authority? To excuse the author we would fain believe that he had lost control of himself when he used those regrettable words.

Why all this anger, all this hatred, merely to win votes in an election? At any rate, these unfortunate words may very well unleach the passions of the masses and destroy all respect for authority; and the day when the people will have lost all respect for constituted authority, the gates will be thrown wide open to communism and to bolshevism. Such language has never before, to my know-' ledge, fallen from the lips of a political leader who wished to be respected; apologies are in order. I ask the presumed author of these words, the right hon. Prime Minister, to specify what members of the Liberal party deserve the opprobrious epithet of Judas. Mr. Speaker, there is no Judas in the Liberal party.
I deplore this excess of language, I consider it an insult to a great many Canadian citizens; and I repeat that the insult should be withdrawn, I trust the author will withdraw the epithet " Judas ", I suggest to the right hon. Prime Minister that he seek out the Judases in our political life and that he obtain the cooperation of his colleague from Mont-magny (Mr. LaVergne) who has some knowledge in the matter.
One after another the Conservative candidates and the right hon. Prime Minister proclaimed throughout the length and breadth of Canada, during the last campaign, that the Liberals had ruined the country through their carelessness; that the Liberals were to blame for the economic depression, for the unemployment crisis; that our industries were going to the wall, that trade was stagnant; that foreign markets must be found for our farm produce, that an outlet for our western wheat was imperative, and they added: "Elect us to office and we will soon set matters straight, or perish in the attempt." That is what they said before the election, Mr. Speaker, to win the people's votes. But all these statements were contradicted by the hon. ministers of the crown themselves, once the elections were over. As proof of this I intend quoting to the house a paper published not in Canada but in Japan. They went quite a distance from Canada to tell the truth after the election.
I have now to revert to the English language.
I have in my hand the front page of a journal published in Japan under the title of the Japan Times and Mail. This is what it has to say under date of Monday, October 27, 1930:
Canada's Export Trade Stands on a Firm Foundation.
Each year it grows in the volume and in importance to every community in the Dominion.

The Address-Mr. Parent
Export business provides millions of Canadians with their livelihood. Nearly a third of Canada's annual production is shipped to other
Each year the volume grows. From $740,000,000 in 1922, it has grown to $1,363,700,000 in 1929. For the first ten months of 1929 the export of manufactured and partly manufactured goods has increased by $46,500,000, while the export of raw material has decreased by $70,700,000.
In foreign lands the demand for our goods and products is at a premium.
I shall not quote further from this journal, because to do so would use up all my time, but it would be very interesting if the article could be published in the newspapers of the Dominion so that every Canadian could take cognizance of it.
(Translation) Mr. Speaker, this happened a few days after the election. And I beg you to note that this advertisement was published by the department of Trade and Commerce under the signature of the present hon. minister in the Bennett cabinet (Mr.Stevens), and that of his deputy; so that the statement is authentic, and it flatly contradicts what all the Conservatives and all the members of the government were saying all through the country during the campaign, in their efforts to mislead the people. After the election our Conservative friends discover that Canada's foreign trade is prosperous.
If this Japanese paper had been shown to the voters in different ridings, in Quebec province and elsewhere, in East Kootenay, for instance, or Chambly-Vercheres, Two Mountains, Montmagny or other constituencies, would the hon. members of the government occupy a seat in this house, I wonder. But there is more to come. I am going to quote another hon. minister; not what he said on the floor of the house; so far most of the ministers have abstained from addressing parliament; one is lead to imagine that silence is enjoined upon the hon. ministers in the House of Commons. Listen to what the hon. Minister of Marine (Mr. Duranleau) had to say in clubs and at banquets. In November 1930, speaking at a banquet given by the Sauve club in the Mount Royal Hotel, the hon. minister, after telling of Canada's wealth, went on to say:
Canada leads the world in agricultural products. It is second in importance among the manufacturing countries of the empire; first in the export of wheat, newsprint, nickel, asbestos; first in national wealth per capita.
There you have the truth, Mr. Speaker but it flatly contradicts the assertions of his leader and of all the Conservative candidates in the course of last summer's campaign. If the
hon. Minister of Marine had been as accurate with the voters of Chambly-Vercheres, would he be an "honourable" to-day?
Coming back to the speech from the throne,
I quote further:
The fact that in this period of universal distress Canada has been spared the same acute degree of hardship which many other nations have been called upon to bear, will not, I know, blind you to the fact that between this country as it is and as it should be, there is a gulf to be bridged by the industry and zeal of all those who have the welfare of the nation in their keeping.
The situation has changed, says His Excellency in the speech from the throne. Indeed there have been changes, Mr. Speaker, since our Conservative friends came into power! Let us glance at a few eloquent figures which go to prove this. I am speaking now of the adverse change in the export of our domestic products. In January 1930, under a Liberal government, our exports were valued at $73,000,000; in January 1931, under the Conservatives, this had fallen to $44,000,000: a reduction of 30 percent. In February 1930, under the Liberals, $66,000,000; in February 1931 under the Conservatives, $43,000,000 :	30 per
cent less. We are told that the national treasury faces a deficit of $100,000,000; quite a change from the surpluses built up by the Liberal administration. The government have to borrow to make up the deficit: the Liberals were constantly reducing our national indebtedness. We may expect an increase in taxes; tax reduction was the order when the Liberals were in office. There has been a pronounced weakening in the prices the farmer receives for his produce, just the opposite of what the Conservatives promised and foretold when they were out looking for votes. Canadian products, our agricultural products in particular, have lost nearly all their foreign markets, thanks to our exorbitant tariff increases. Canada is no longer a ranking nation in the matter of export trade.
In a word the change has been much for the worse; the situation fosters foreboding and causes much more uneasiness than did the crisis at election time.
Mr. Speaker, the speech from the throne asks us to set ourselves zealously to the task of filling this void; it says that certain factors of a domestic character were responsible for our present economic ills. I ask the honourable members on the other side to point out to us, if they can, what domestic factors contributed to this trade depression. They will try to make us believe that the Liberal administration is to blame for the sorry state of affairs brought about by the loss of our foreign markets. My reply is that it was the Liberals
The Address-Mr. Parent

who opened up these markets for our Canadian products and that the markets have been lost since the Conservative party came into power. And I quote, as proof, the statement of a man whose authority and knowledge in the matter is unquestioned. The general manager of the Bank of Nova Scotia, speaking before the general meeting of the shareholders, in Montreal, on January 28th, 1931, said what follows:
In ten years the proportion of Canadian products sold in foreign markets had increased from 25 to 30 per cent.
This was under the Liberal regime, since 1921. The gentlemen opposite must agree that times are changed indeed! In its monthly letter, published recently, the Bank of Montreal points out Canada's foreign trade has decreased by 36 per cent.
Mr. Speaker, we should look for the cause of all our ills in the action of the present government: they boosted the customs tariff to such a height that other countries refused to go on buying Canadian products, since we no longer bought theirs. We are isolating ourselves, that is what it amounts to; and Canada is producing a surplus of manufactured and agricultural products which we cannot sell abroad, to such an extent has our foreign trade fallen off. Prices are tumbling, factories are laying off their hands, unemployment is on the increase. There you have the fruits of a high protective policy.
The members to your right, Mr. Speaker, realizing the disastrous results of their shortsighted policy, and the terrible pass to W'hich they have brought the country, are seemingly bent on appealing to clairvoyants.
I quote for you what was said by the honourable Minister of Marine,.at that same banquet tendered by the "Club Sauve", in Montreal, on the 27th of last November, as reported in La Presse. He had just spoken of the hardships people were undergoing in a rich country like Canada; he continued thus: We needed a clairvoyant mind, a man of action who would know how to give form and expression to the people's thought.
And he mentioned Mr. Bennett's name.



ROYAL ASSENT

[Stage Direction]
A message was delivered by Major A. R. Thompson, Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod, as follows:
Mr. Speaker, His Honour, the deputy of His Excellency the Governor General, desires the immediate attendance of this honourable house in the chamber of the honourable the Senate.
Accordingly, the house went up to the Senate,
And having returned,

Mr. SPEAKER informed the house that the deputy of His Excellency the Governor General had been pleased to give in His Majesty's name the royal assent to the following bill:
An Act for granting to His Majesty certain sums of money for the public service of the financial year ending the 31st March, 1932.


[Stage Direction]
The house resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Max D. Cormier for an address to His Excellency the Administrator in reply to his speech at the opening of the session, and the proposed amendment thereto of Mr. Mackenzie King.
Louis-Étienne Parent: I ask the hon. Minister of Marine to tell us when he speaks on the floor of the house-and we are anxious to hear him-just what the present government has done for Canada since it came into power. I suppose his reply will be: protection. I maintain that the protective policy shackles foreign trade, that it has prevented the sale of our manufactured products to the detriment of the consuming public, the farmers, especially, who have to pay high prices for everything they buy, while their own products must be sold on a steadily weakening market; the farmers' candle is being burned at both ends.
I maintain, Mr. Speaker, that agriculture, a3 the basic industry of this country, should receive first consideration at the hands of our government, before any other group.
I believe that if the hon. Minister of Marine's "clairvoyant" had foretold the present condition of the farming class in Chambly-Vercheres, Two Mountains, and other Quebec constituencies, we would have fewer Conservative representatives in this house to-day.
If the hon. Minister of Marine answers: "Unemployment relief," I will quote him the words spoken by the right hon. Prime Minister at Victoria on the 16th of June last ("Colonist"):
Is there any excuse for hard times in this country, if the government does its duty?
and at Sarnia on July 16th ("Mail and Empire") :
Someone is responsible for unemployment; not individuals but the government. Because of their majorities in parliament governments must answer for every bit of legislation passed.
I grant you that the government passed a law for the relief of unemployment. But what

The Address-Mr. Fortin
does it amount to? I state here and now that the government did not beep their promise to end unemployment; they did not assume the share of liability they pledged themselves to assume under the unemployment relief act. They threw all the burden on the municipalities; most of the latter were unable to negotiate loans and to contribute an equivalent amount to that put up by the federal and provincial treasuries. That is not what was promised on the campaign platform.


An hon. MEMBER:: You were free to take it or leave it.


Louis-Étienne Parent: But that is not all. What was the net result of the unemployment relief act? According to statistics, 18 days of work were furnished to 228,351 men, or an average of merely $50 or $50 to live on for six months. Is that what you promised the voters of this country?


An hon. MEMBER:: It is better than nothing.
Mr .PARENT: These facts speak for themselves; they are real: statistics do not lie. Mr. Speaker, my time will soon be up; I have only a few minutes left. I wish to speak of the statement made by another member of the government, the hon. Minister of Trade and Commerce (Mr. Stevens) who invokes the authority of economists:
The chief cause of the present trade depression is not overproduction, but faulty methods fo distribution.
He adds:
Certain countries, among others China, India, Mexico and certain parts of Latin America are in need of goods which other countries possess in abundance. The main difficulty is to reach these markets. The problem of straightening this state of affairs should receive the attention of economists.
This is the same hon. minister Mr. Speaker, who had a full-page advertisement published in a Japanese newspaper, under his own signature ; in that advertisement, which I mentioned a while ago, it is said that the markets of the world are open to Canada for the export of her surplus product. During the campaign the Conservatives, were very generous with their promises. They made any number of nasty insinuations against the Liberal party; but they have never been able to charge the Liberal administration with dishonesty. They sought in vain: they could find no pretext for any such accusation. The Conservatives showed things and events in a false light. They made all sorts of statements which they contradicted themselves, once the elect ions wem safely behind and they were in
the seats of the mighty. But the Canadian people have had their eyes opened; they see now the difference between the two administrations; between the Liberal regime from 1921 to 1930 and the disastrous consequences of only six months of Conservative rule. This government has lost the confidence of the Canadian electorate.
Mr. Speaker, with a full sense of the duties and responsibilities I have assumed I am willing to cooperate with the government and with the hon. members to your right on all measures of public interest submitted to the house because as a Canadian I have the hopeful ambition of doing my share to hasten the return of our former prosperity and to help our country reach the high destiny which we all trust is hers.


Mr. EMILE FORTIN (Levis):: (Translation) Mr. Speaker, from my seat in this house, I wish to pay a tribute to my constituents in Levis I wish to tell them how I appreciate the honour they conferred upon me when electing me as their representative, and that they can rely on my unremitted devotion at all times.
In rising to speak for the first time in this house, I do so with a deep feeling, as I happen to be the first Conservative member returned by the constituency of Levis since 1882. This feeling is easily accountable for when I recollect that I have been called upon to succeed the Hon. Dr. Blanchet, grandfather of the Solicitor General (Mr. Dupre), who is the minister from my district. As I am thus evoking the memory of my illustrious predecessor w'ho so fittingly occupied the chair you now adorn, Mr. Speaker, it is indeed my pleasure to offer to you my congratulations for your election to that office.
I desire to extend my felicitations to my fellow countrymen who, in delivering their speeches in their mother tongue have set the example, and had I a reproach to express, it would be addressed to the hon. member for Labelle (Mr. Bourassa), and even to the hon. deputy speaker of this house (Mr. LaVergne), who could at least have delivered part of their speeches in French. However, upon further thought, I felt that the hon. deputy speaker had used the English language in order that his remarks might be understood and to defend us more efficiently. I take this opportunity to express the hope that our esteemed deputy speaker shall speedily recover from his illness. I wish to inform him that his valuable help shall still be required in our national contests. Norris was the idol of the Liberals, even of the French Canadian
The Address-Mr. Fortin

Liberals, but ourselves, we shall stand up against Anderson. And it is my sincere wish that the hon. prime minister of Saskatchewan may remember that we have at Rideau Hall a lady of the manor of French origin.
I was rather shocked, if I may use the term, when I was asked by several members, Liberal and Conservative, from Ontario and other provinces, where the constituency of Levis was located and other information concerning same. For a few moments, let me take you on a journey through my constituency. The county of Levis is separated from Quebec by the St. Lawrence river. It has two means of communication; first, the Quebec bridge, and in second place, the ferry service. When reaching Levis from the ferry boats the first building to be seen, and that is rather significant, is the Canada National Railway station; we also see the up-to-date customs house, and on our left, the yards from which coal is being shipped to all parts of the province of Quebec. A few steps farther, one may board a street car of the Levis Tramways Company and proceed to Lauzon where are located the famous Lome and Champlain dry docks. You may know or may not know that the Lome and Champlain dry docks are the most up-to-date in the world; at this same place may be seen also the shipyards where skilled workmen are now	engaged	in	building, for the	Canadian	National	Railways,	a car ferry ofsome	500 feet	in	length.	It was on	behalfof these workers, that, at the first caucus held	during the	special	session, I	called
the attention of the Prime Minister and of the Minister from my district (Mr. Dupre) to the opportunity of exacting a duty of 25 per cent on all foreign naval construction. Quite recently, I noticed in a newspaper that a manufacturer, more experienced than myself, had suggested that we should follow the example of the United States and apply a duty of 50 per cent. At the caucus above mentioned I was promised-and the Conservatives, as a rule, keep their promises

that action would be taken accordingly, and the matter was discussed at the interprovincial conference held recently.
Let us leave the Lome and Champlain dry docks and proceed to the military camp at Lauzon, where the various regiments of the Quebec district hold their annual drills. This camp has been in existence for a great many years and it is surrounded with old forts that are now classified as historical sites, but which ought to be kept in a better condition by the hon. Minister of National Defence (Mr. Sutherland) for I would be

ashamed to ask tourists to pay a visit to these forts.
Thence, we proceed to the armouries which are the general headquarters of the Quebec and Levis regiments. We then go to the Quarantine where is disembarked the grade live stock imported from foreign countries. A little further on, one may see the Breakey-ville mills and those of the Gravel Lumber Company, and some distance away the large Canadian National Railways workshops, of great size, forsooth, but unfortunately idle. If the hon. Minister of Railways (Mr. Manion) was at his seat-


Some hon. MEMBERS:: He is here.


Émile Fortin: -I would pause to call his attention to the fact that exceptionally large sums of money are being expended by the Canadian National Railways outside of the constituency of Levis, and this because of the presence in our district of unqualified men who instead of having the necessary repairs mado at Charny take the cars and locomotives to Montreal, Joliette and other places. I hope that the Minister of Railways will take up the matter and see to it that we get fair treatment in that respect.
We now have practically reached the limits of my constituency and come to the famous lighthouse of the Department of Marine at St. Nicholas. This is the point from which, after our journey through the county, we retrace our steps via the well known Quebec bridge. It is to be hoped that the mention of the famous Quebec bridge shall bring to mind the constituency of Levis and that I shall no longer meet people saying to me: Where is the county of Levis? What about that constituency of Levis?
The county of Levis has also given the country quite a number of men of great distinction. Many of them went through the College of Levis, from which both the hon. Solicitor General and my hon. friend, the member for L'Islet (M. Fafard), graduated. Among such famous men may be also included Sir Lomer Gouin who was prime minister of his province, Minister of Justice in the Dominion government and lieutenant-governor of the province of Quebec. One may also mention Sir Frangois Lemieux, chief justice of the superior court of the province of Quebec, and the Hon. Adelard Turgeon who for so many years was president of the Legislative council. There are also justices Belleau, Bernier and Geliy, and we also can boast of having the first Canadian cardinal, cardinal Begin, who was born in a small

The Address-Mr. Fortin
parish of my constituency. And lastly, I could not overlook our national bard, Louis Frechette.
Speaking of my Alma Mater, I wish to bring out the fact the college of Levis has made for itself quite a reputation in the intercollegiate contests held for some years back. Twelve students from our Alma Mater were awarded the Prince of Wales prize.
The unfortunate thing about the constituency of Levis is its close proximity to Quebec, as well as its being included within the boundaries of Quebec harbour. When it comes to secure a construction or improvement of some kind, complications arise. Only recently, having come to the conclusion that a deep water wharf would be of great advantage, the electors for Levis petitioned me to that end. Before applying to the place where I expected a favourable reply, I had to visit several offices.
I was first asked to see the department of my hon. friend the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Stewart) who, after a delay of three or four weeks, told me that he could not deal with the matter owing to the fact that Levis is within the boundaries of Quebec harbour and that the Minister of Public Works has no authority to undertake any work there. A few days later, I went to the Department of Marine and there I was told by the hon. Minister (Mr. Duranleau): "Go and see the harbour commissioners and have the matter settled by the chairman and manager of that board." In other words his advice to me was that I should go and solicit from the president and manager of that board a favour which they mean to keep to themselves. I may state, Mr. Speaker, that for the last twenty-five years we have asked for deep water piers at Levis and the matter is of the utmost importance, it being the key to the successful development of our industrial and commercial establishments.
Recently I had a conversation with the Hon. Senator Lemieux who said:	"Levis
is a splendid county, Levis is a beautiful city, but when one comes to the lower part of the town, the sight of its dilapidated wharves is disgraceful." In reply, I said to him: "I took steps in order to have this state of affairs remedied." I may be too pessimistic in my forebodings, though I have not seen anything in the estimates; otherwise I might lose the sympathy of the minister representing my district; however, I have not lost hope of succeeding for, as the hon. member for Dorchester was telling me the other day: "The supplementary estimates are yet to come."
The deep water wharves in question would only cost a trifle as compared to the $20,000,000 that have been spent in the harbour of
Quebec. This work being requested not only by Levis but by the south shore, by the constituencies of Bellechasse, Dorchester, Lot-biniere and Beauce, it seems to me that the government ought to grant my request.
My predecessors, Mr. Speaker, have not neglected their duty. I am aware that they applied to the government for the very thing I am asking for this day, but always without success. If, as a member for Levis, I must make requests and never secure anything, I say frankly that it is not my intention to act as a footstool to those who have political ambitions.
I now wish to refer briefly to the length of the speeches heard in this house. I find out, for the greater part, they are too long. I shall begin with the right hon. leader of the opposition (Mr. Mackenzie King) who, yesterday, after he had listened to the communistic utterances, to the revolutionary speeches delivered here, rose to his feet to say that the cause of the whole trouble lies in the fact that the right hon. Prime Minister (Mr. Bennett) called the session too late.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Hear, hear.


Émile Fortin: Yes, it is a fact, but if
the apposition was not obstructing as it does since four weeks.


An hon. MEMBER:: It is their duty.


Émile Fortin: We now have entered the fourth week of the session and we have practically done nothing! It seems to me that the hon. gentlemen on the other side may be blamed for this just as much as the government.
What has the right hon. leader of the opposition done? He delivered a splendid speech, most interesting, but which in fact was a lecture on the imperial conference and on the speech of the Right Hen. R. B. Bennett during the last election, and he spoke along these fines for at least two hours or two hours and a quarter. The right hon leader of the opposition devoted at least three quarters of an hour to an essay on the word "humbug". He said he had collected all existing dictionaries in the British empire in order to find a definition of the word "humbug". Do you not think, Mr. Chairman, that this is a waste of time?
I now turn to the hon. member for Quebec-East (Mr. Lapointe) whom I am always prone to call Minister of Justice because, indeed, a man of Mr. Lapointe's worth, cannot be belittled. What did the hon. member for Quebec-East say? He said; "There are our prophets". Well, yes, I hope we are prophets, and when we shall have restored to Canada
The Address-Mr. Fortin

its prosperity of former days, it will be our turn to say to the opposition:	"What nice
prophets you are"!
The Hon. Mr. Lapointe's mind is beset with the imperial conference and for at least a year he has given thought to nothing else. He had fancied that no one else in Canada, apart . from the right hon. leader of the opposition and himself, could attend the imperial conference. Mr. Speaker, the people have given their reply and it seems to me that Mr. Lapointe should make the best of it. If his trouble is due to indigestion, he should take a laxative in order to relieve himself from his conference. The hon. member for Quebec-East wasted the valuable time of the House with an eulogy of Sir Wilfrid Laurier. The life story of Sir Wilfrid Laurier is known to all of us, and we all know that he was a great man, statesman of exceptional merit. But if we, on this side of the house, should start to proclaim in long speeches the virtues of all our famous public men, I dare say the session would last the twelve months of the year. As to the hon. member for Temiscouata (Mr. Pouliot) I should make no reference to him; however, since we are bound to speak even of those who are the vaudeville performers in the house, it occurs to me that he should be less prodigal of what little time we have to devote to the discussion of public affairs, instead of spending forty minutes in telling us about the station at Riviere-du-Loup. During the nine years of Liberal administration he surely had plenty of time to secure the building of that station.
I shall refer briefly to the hon. member for Hull (Mr. Fournier) who exceeded all others when he said: "Instead of being beneficial to my constituency, the 820,000,000 have done it harm."
Mr. Speaker, let an unemployed come to you and give him $100; two days later he comes back to tell you that you have done him harm. Speeches of that type are hurtful rather than helpful. You have heard the speeches, or the lectures, of the hon. members for St. Denis (Mr. Denis) and for Portneuf (Mr. Desrochers), and even the utterances -I was not in my seat at the time, but I was told about them,-of the hon. member for Lotbiniere (Mr. Verville). It is said his remarks were quite interesting and that he endeavoured to help his party. I quote these instances, Mr. Speaker, and I do so designedly because I wonder if an agreement could not be entered into, a rule laid down whereby the length of the sessions would be limited to three months instead of venturing on a session without knowing how long it may last. I would 
be pleased to have an answer to that suggestion from the Minister of Justice (Mr. Guthrie), or from some legal gentleman, in order to ascertain if what has been done in respect to the length of speeches could not also be done concerning the session.
I am somewhat reassured when I find that the right hon. leader of the opposition seems in sympathy with the idea for, in the last part of his remarks, he was saying to the Prime Minister: "We trust you; we know that you are sincere; we know that all your intentions are good; but your policies are unsound."
The policy of the right hon. Prime Minister has been accepted and endorsed by the people and I hope that the right hon. leader of the opposition shall adhere to it until further order.


Mr. FOURNIER:: Would the hon. member allow me a question? Did you read the following sentence in my speech-


The DEPUTY SPEAKER:: The question
must be a direct one.


Alphonse Fournier: With your permission, Mr. Chairman, and with the consent of the hon. member, I wish to point out that in my speech, as reported in Hansard of the 24th March, page 263, I said the following:
It is said that the unemployment situation has improved, thanks to the grant ot $20,000,000. I think so. Everybody will admit that it helped.
The hon. member should withdraw that part of his speech in which he states that I said that the grant caused harm.


Émile Fortin: The hon. member for Hull has only read one line of Hansard and I am not prepared to withdraw my words because I heard his speech.


Alphonse Fournier: I request from the hon. member the withdrawal of that part of his remarks.


Émile Fortin: And I know that he inferred-


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Withdraw, withdraw !


Émile Fortin: And I trust, as I was saying a minute ago, that the Right Hon. Mr. Mackenzie King-


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Withdraw. Order!


Armand Renaud La Vergne: The hon. member for Hull having made a statement to the effect that the hon. member for Levis had misunderstood him, the hon. member for Levis cannot put a different construction on his words. He is bound to accept the statement of the hon. member for Hull.

The Address-Mr. St-Pere


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Withdraw, withdraw ! "


Émile Fortin: In that case, I accept the explanation of the hon. member.


Mr. DORION:: Hear, hear!


Émile Fortin: I was saying that the Right Hon. Mr. Mackenzie King was quite in sympathy with the government and that he was endeavouring to safeguard the interests of all. I expect that the people will soon give him further proof that the Liberal party is failing fast. I mean when the elections take place in Quebec and the Hon. Taschereau is defeated and has to make way for Mr. Camillien Houde.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Never.
Mr. BOUCHARD r Count on that as you did on your wharf; it will turn out the same way.


Émile Fortin: In order to set a good example, and without taking too much of the time of the house, I wish to pay my respects and offer my thanks to the hon. member for Southeast Grey (Miss Macphail) for her kind and flattering words concerning the French-Canadian. Our hon. friend stated that she admired the facility with which the French-Canadian took up English, while at the same time, I surmise, retaining their own language. I shall suggest to my hon. friend that she should set an example to her English speaking colleagues, by becoming specially proficient in the use of the French tongue, to the point of delivering a speech in French by next session.
Mr. E. C. ST-PERE (Hochelaga): (Translation) Mr. Speaker, the member for Hochelaga is glad of this opportunity to join his voice to the chorus of congratulations which have greeted your elevation to the honourable, and honoured position of Speaker of the House of Commons.
If I choose to pay my respects to you in my mother tongue, despite my ready knowledge of both languages, this choice of mine was induced by my noticing not only that you gave proof of broadmindedness and intelligence in taking up the study of French, but also that the interested attention with which you follow every speech delivered in French shows that you appreciate more and more the beauties of our tongue.
You have given to the entire country a magnificent lesson in bonne entente. You have, moreover, made it clear that the language that is dear to you will work side by side with our own mother tongue, in
Canada as in the League of Nations, for peace, harmony and fraternity among the different racial groups who go to make up this Canadian nation.
I followed with very great interest also the speech of the hon. member for Res-tigouche-Madawaska (Mr. Cormier). His exposition of Conservative policy was more than a profession of faith in a political doctrine: he showed the whole country that Memramcook College, an institution which numbers him among her most brilliant graduates, endows her students, as do all our French colleges in Canada, with a bilingual education. His presence here in this house is proof, moreover, of the survival of the French group who, since the great disturbance, have never ceased, from the plains of Acadia to the most remote bayous of Louisiana, to grow in numbers and in influence.
The seconder of the address also belongs to the new generation of public men who refuse to believe that parliamentary custom is something which cannot be changed. The designated mover of the address made way for the honourable member for Restigouche. This gesture, truly Canadian, is a sign of the times. There is no question of racial superiority in Canada; and I would be happy to know that in the future this rotation will be an established thing in the House of Commons.
The debate has been mild, Mr. Speaker, particularly amongst us French-Canadians from Quebec, representing the two political groups of the province. If an epithet has been dropped here and there, from one side or the other, if there has been a little teasing, it has all been couched in that genuine politeness which drew from one English governor the opinion that we were "a race of gentlemen".
There must be a debate, Mr. Speaker. Was it not the fabulist Lafontaine who wrote: "Discussion is a valuable help; without it we would sleep through life"?
Before entering into a discussion of the respective merits, or demerits, of the speech from the throne, let us glance at the conservative platform whence came all the speeches of the last election campaign.
At the last session of 1930 the two main features of the Conservative program were discussed on the floor of this house, our opponents refused to recognize that unemployment was an international problem and they claimed that the butter problem-God knows the province of Quebec was covered with butter during the last campaign-was due to the carelessness of the William Lyon Mac-
The Address-Mr. Sl-Pere

kenzie King administration. I must frankly admit that our Conservative friends were well prepared. It is always a clever move to flood the country with propaganda, not quite truthful; be that as it may I think our opponents were well prepared and, thanks to circumstances, they, who for years had been striving to get into office, reached their goal.
The right hon. Prime Minister did me the honour of opening his campaign in a Montreal district, next to my riding. I listened attentively to his speech, over the radio, in my humble home. He appealed to the unemployed; he surely intended to kill two birds with one stone, speaking in Maisonneuve county, adjacent to Hochelaga; but the workers in these two electoral districts gave a negative answer to the Conservative party, and your humble servant and the hon. member for Maisonneuve (Mr. Robitaille) won the support of the voters once more, to the cause of the Right Hon. William Lyon Mackenzie King, to the cause of the Liberal party which, of all the political parties, has most often bent down to humble folk and lent them a helping hand.
The mentor of that evening was the hon. member for Maisonneuve in the provincial legislature. He asked several questions of the Conservative chieftain. He asked him, particularly, if he pledged himself to build in Canada the ships Canada needed. The Hon. Mr. Bennett replied that he saw no Objection to that. But I am still wondering where those ships are, since most of the former employees of the Vickers shipyard are still without work.
Everything imaginable was promised the employees of our large textile mills; they were told that thanks to protection their wages would go up, that the waters of the Pactolus would replace those of the St. Lawrence which flow behind the mills of St. Anne and Hochelaga. I must admit that, lured by all these promises, a few of my friends deserted me for a moment, but they are looking forward to an exemplary revenge at the next federal election.
Protection was offered as a cure for all our ills. It was the hon. member from Compton (Mr. Gobeil), I believe, who recently made the statement that the province of Quebec was, in fact, protectionist.


Charles Napoléon Dorion: That is true.
Mr. ST-PERE:	The hon. member for
Montmorency exclaims "That is true." I have no reason to change my opinion, Mr. Speaker. In a number of speeches on the floor of this house I have said that the difference between the two parties on the tariff 
question-I made the same statement during my last campaign

was that the Conservative party was the party of high protection while the Liberal party sought after the happy medium of moderate protection. Here are the answers the Liberals made to the arguments of our Conservative opponents: That the William Lyon Mackenzie King administration had reduced our national debt; that since 1922 the Liberal government had accumulated surplus after surplus; that the reports of our banks, etc., showed that Canada enjoyed a high degree of prosperity, and that our position in international trade was the envy of the world.
But the King government, in spite of all it had done for Canada, was defeated. Mr. Speaker, the masses are moved because their feelings are easily stirred; hence it is not difficult to swing their allegiance. The hero carried in triumph to the capital is dashed to death from the Tarpeian Rock, with the same enthusiasm. The Conservative party organizers-it is useless to blame them: that is their business-knew well how to put into practice the advice contained in their lines of Charles de la Vigne:
Employez ees grands mots, ces phrases, ces formules,
Dont la solennite trompe les moins credules.


Charles Napoléon Dorion: The Liberals know something about that; they made use of those words for such a long time.
Mr. ST-PERE: The hon. member for Montmorency will surely have occasion to discuss these matters again in the budget debate. If he will please remain in his seat for a few minutes I will acquaint him with certain statistics that he will find edifying.


An hon. MEMBER:: The Dominion Textile.
Mr. ST-PERE: A few days after the victory the Right Hon. Mr. Bennett proceeded to appoint his army generals. But there was one missing, the general who was to lead the army of workers. During the struggle the Liberal party had retained the support of the workers in our big cities. Not a single workers' candidate was elected under the Conservative banner. But our opponents are never at a loss, apparently. The commander-in-chief sought among those who had been retired; and the hon. Minister of Labour of the Great War period, the Hon. Gideon Robertson, took up the task once more. A senator, who is not responsible to the people! The workingmen of Canada deserve better treatment than that at the hands of a government which claim it is truly democratic. I will remember how

The Address-Mr. St-Pere
much our opponents protested in the province of Quebec because the Hon. Mr. Perron accepted a portfolio while he was a member of the upper provincial house. He yielded to the popular demand and, nothing daunted, marched into Montcalm and carried away the mandate for that county. Let our friends opposite show themselves as consistent as did the Liberal party in Mr. Perron's case in Quebec province; then our workers will be represented in this house by something better than a light under a bushel.
Mr. LaVERGNE : In 1919 you were going to reform the Senate.
Mr. ST-PERE:	Many reforms put forward
are never accomplished.
Right after the election, the government lost no time in calling a meeting of the national employment council. In my capacity as the representative of a large labouring constituency I was at the meeting. On the recommendation of the council, the government accepted the methods of assistance that Mr. Hoover and his advisory committees had already decided upon for the unemployed in the United States. In their accepting their recommendations the present government who, throughout the campaign, had maintained that the unemployment problem was not international, recognized that the problem was, in fact, international.
There was nothing extraordinary about the short session. Called under the pretence of relieving unemployment it was nothing but a camouflage, its real object being to satisfy the imperious demands of those who had backed the Conservative party during the campaign. The tariff must be increased, whatever the cost; the ransom must be paid. God knows if the country has found out the cost of having listened to the pleadings of certain capitalists who, to-day, form the backbone of the Conservative party.
Far be it from me to deny the usefulness of the $20,000,000 voted for unemployment relief; but between that and making the people believe that an end was to be put to unemployment, there is quite a gap.
The Imperial conference. Being myself a newspaper man, I leave to our lawyer friends the analysis of constitutional law. I confine myself to the one remark that in leaving our shores the Right Hon. Prime Minister was bound for certain failure. The "non possumus" of the Right Hon. Mr. MacDonald told the Hon. Mr. Bennett and all his friends that Great Britain has no intention of changing her fiscal policy, the policy of every British government, Liberal, Conservative and Labour alike, since the repeal of the Corn Laws.
The "humbug" of Mr. Thomas. I think there is a bit of irony in the frequent repetition of this word "humbug" used by Mr. Thomas. We have often heard of this reply of the Secretary of State for the Colonies to the Canadian Prime Minister's tariff proposals. The right hon. leader of the government cannot fail to know that the hon. Mr. Thomas, this one-time engineer on the Great Western Railway, is, according to one of his biographers, "rather blunt, but a good-natured soul," and that he adhered fully to the program of the Labour party that the British voter could read as follows:
The labour vision of a well-ordered world encompasses the nations presently torn by strife and quarrelling. Hence the labour party demands a policy of international cooperation.
These two last words explain the failure of our prime minister. The British Labour party, no matter what may be said to the contrary, prefers international to imperial cooperation.
There you have it; you must admit the plain fact that John Bull will restrict his trade to no special zone; he wants the whole world for a customer. Such are the traditions, the methods and the endeavours toward international peace, that the Gladstone party embodied and applied in days gone by.
"This practical idealism"-the very words that appear in the pink manifesto-has always had a strong hold on British opinion. The British people have always been equally moved by the consideration of their own interests and by the demands of their sentimental temperament.
Let us wait for the next economic conference, the only hope left the Conservative party of succeeding in disposing of our wheat in the markets of Great Britain.
During the campaign the Hon. Mr. Bennett stated there was no excuse for unemployment in Canada, with a government who did its duty. Has there been an end of unemployment, I ask the hon. member for Montmo-[DOT] rency (Mr. Dorion)? Factories are closing down everywhere. Representing as I do, the largest manufacturing section of Montreal, rubbing elbows every day with workers and foremen, I know something about the situation. Moulders, carpenters, cabinetmakers, mechanics, all are idle to-day. The Pactolus has ceased to flow. Imports and exports are falling off, which makes serious inroads into our national exchequer. Our high tariff closes the Canadian market to foreign goods and in retaliation our products find no sale abroad. Result: unemployment is rampant, ever on the increase, and the purchasing power of the Canadian consumer has fallen so low that he can no longer buy even our own Canadian made goods.
The Address-Mr. St-Pere

Now let us glance a moment at the textile industry, ever the spoiled child of the Conservative party. The Montreal Star, Conservative organ in the metropolis, gave its special protection to this industry. The McLeod pamphlet, addressed to all the members of parliament was, I might say, an insult to the public conscience and to the common sense of the workingmen in my riding. This paper claimed that the workers in the cotton mills earned an average salary of $20 a week. I absolutely deny that statement and since proof of the contrary is the best answer I lay here on my desk pay-envelopes from the big cotton mill of Hochelaga. These hands worked from ten to twelve hours a day in the mill in question where the bosses apply the advice once given by William Pitt to the English textile manufacturers who were complaining of the high salaries they had to pay adult men and women:	"Employ children." The
Dominion Textile Co, has always employed child-labour. Not one of these envelopes mentions a higher wage than $37.50 for fifteen days' work.
Several hon. MEMBERS:	For shame!
Mr. ST-PERE: It is interesting to note also that on the backs of these envelopes the employees are advised: "Spend your wages for made-in-Canada goods." Worthy advice, indeed. Shameful advice, I say, when addressed to workmen whose weekly budget-according to the Labour Gazette-should not fall below a minimum of $20-$21; telling them to buy other things when their pay will barely keep body and soul together. The hon. member for Montmorency-


Charles Napoléon Dorion: Will my hon. friend allow
me a question? What was done by the provincial Minister of Labour in Quebec?
Mr. ST-PERE:	It is not for me to deal
with provincial matters. I hold no brief for the Hon. Mr. Taschereau's administration; neither is it my business to lay charges against the city administration in Montreal. I say only this: it is my duty to deny the statements made by the present administration on the floor of the House of Commons.


Charles Napoléon Dorion: Defend Taschereau and his government.
Mr. ST-PERE:	The hon. member for
Montmorency

Mr. LaVERGNE: Will the hon. member show us those envelopes?
Mr. ST-PERE: They are my private property.

Mr. LaVERGNE : I rise to a point of order. The hon. gentleman has quoted a document which he ought to disclose.
Mr. ST-PERE:	I merely said that none
of these envelopes represented more than $35 in the way of salary for two weeks.
Mr. LaVERGNE; I will drop the point of order. The hon, gentleman does not want to show the document.
Mr. ST-PERE:	I know that if I showed
it, revealing the salaries, these fellows would be out of their jobs to-morrow.
Mr. LaVERGNE : When the hon. member says that he is not fair.
Mr. ST-PERE:	The other day the hon.
member from Montmorency told us that the number of workers in the mill at St. Gregoire had doubled.


Charles Napoléon Dorion: Not at all. I beg your
pardon, I never said that.
Mr. ST-PERE:	What is it you did say?
Increased?


Charles Napoléon Dorion: Increased.
Mr. ST-PERE: Very well, I withdraw the word "doubled." Here are the comparative statistics of 1930 and 1931 furnished by the Department of Labour, Quebec. How many ' persons were employed in the Dominion Textile mills at Montmorency, at the end of July, 1930? Answer 1,347. How many employees were there at the end of February, 1931? Answer:	1,349. An increase of two workers,
under the high protective policy of the Right Hon. Mr. Bennett.


Charles Napoléon Dorion: And that statement comes from the Minister of Labour at Quebec?
Mr. ST-PERE:	I have every reason to
believe that the hon. Minister of Labour at Quebec is just as honest as the member for Montmorency, when he submits a document.
* The member for Stormont (Mr. Shaver) told us that people were prosperous in the eastern part of the town of Cornwall. Unfortunately for him, my sporting activities in the past often brought me to Cornwall:	I
know what is going on there as well as I do what is taking place at home. Three of my good Cornwall friends have assured me this very week that the famous weekly wages of $30 was inexistent; that the only employees in the big Cornwall mill to earn any such figure were the engineer who repairs the machines, and a few other engineers. The Dominion Textile Co., in spite of the high protection which it enjoys, is never lavish with wage increases.

The Address-Mr. St-Pere


Charles Napoléon Dorion: Just like the paper-mills
in Quebec.
Mr. ST-PERE:	You can keep the papermills.


Sir. EUGENE FISET:: Especially Price
Bros.
Mr. LaVERGNE: They are friends of yours.


Eugène Fiset: Yours	too.
Mr. ST-PERE (Translation): Now, to listen to our Conservative friends one would think that the $20,000,000 voted at the special session would, by some process of spontaneous generation, double in value under the magic wand of the right hon. Prime Minister (Mr. Bennett). What about the charities of our St. Vincent de Paul societies? What about the assistance given by all the large social organizations of the city of Montreal and elsewhere? What about the self-sacrifice that the Montreal property owners are making, at present? I am proud to mention, in this respect, the devotion of a number of property owners among the working class of my riding who, since unemployment is prevalent in Canada, shelter without charge those among them who suffer from this world-wide crisis. Mention is made of unemployment statistics. Have you ever read, Mr. Speaker, the articles published by certain distinguished economists who contend that it is impossible to gather reliable statistics on unemployment?
I should very much like to discuss the Russian embargo. However, I shall postpone my comments on this subject.
Mr. LaVERGNE (Translation): Sometime, somewhere.
Mr. ST-PERE (Translation):	Until I discuss the budget. Since the Deputy Speaker of the house and the hon. Solicitor General (Mr. Dupre) wish to know the views of the Liberal members for Quebec in this respect, I shall ask them to wait patiently until the budget is brought down.


Charles Napoléon Dorion: The fiddles
are out of tune.
Mr. ST-PERE (Translation):	Much has
been said about national unity. Does it truly exist? I am sorry to have to refer to it and I ask my English-speaking friends throughout this country who know me to take note, that if I refer to this subject now, it is that circumstances compel me to do so. The hon. Solicitor General spoke about appeals to prejudice. An article which
appeared in "La Presse" with reference to conscription was mentioned. Who was the first to refer to conscription at the last Dominion elections, if not the hon. member for West Toronto (Mr. MacNicol), he stated when he was chosen as a Conservative candidate in Ontario:
Next time war breaks out, conscription will be resorted to "right off the bat" and it will be conscription of capital as well as that of men.
No one in our province spoke of war or conscription. It was in Toronto that they discussed it. Why should it now be a French Canadian from Quebec who should charge the Liberals with appealing to prejudice?


Charles Napoléon Dorion: Name the
member who made that statement.
Mr. ST-PERE (Translation):	Mr. Mac-
Nicol. The hon. member for Dorchester (Mr. Gagnon), in a well thought out and clear cut speech, reminded us of the statement which the hon. Senator de Boucherville made on February 17, 1879, as to the obligation under which the Conservative party were of fulfilling the pledges made to the Canadian people. Like in 1878 and 1879, it behooves the Right Hon. Mr. Bennett and his friends to fulfil, to-day, that duty. We Liberals, who are oppositionists, not negationists, patiently await the appearance of that midnight sun which will disperse this would-be gloom spread throughout Canada by the King regime. Once for all, let this column of fire appear, which is to lead us to this promised land of the Right Hon. Mr. Bennett, a pledge made during the last elections.
We, Liberals, are willing to help. We are quite aware that the initiative must come from the government, and since they contend not to be a one man government. Let them ponder over this line of Virgil: "Non nostrum inter vos tantas componere lites." "We are not called upon to arbitrate between you on such momentous issues."
I recognize that the right hon. Prime Minister is, at present, labouring under difficulties. I fully understand his silence. There is nothing astonishing that at times he keeps his own counsel. Racine's verses could well be applied to him, under the present circumstances:
" Tant de coups imprevus m'aecablent a la fois, Qu'ils m'otent la parole et menlevent la voix."
Work, it behooves you.
Conservatives of Quebec who boast of having destroyed this so solid bloc which represented our province at Ottawa since 1922, it
656 7	COMMONS
The Address-Mr. Weir (Macdonald)
devolves on you to find not only a remedy but a complete solution to the unemployment problem which you boasted to settle three days after assuming power at Ottawa. It rests with you to persuade your large industries so highly protected, to give full satisfaction to the claims of the working classes, let the industrialists acquire wealth, but let them be careful that it does not become their master. That is they should pay better wages to their employees. Work, the people have their eyes on you, they will judge you, and should you neglect to settle those important questions which you have pledged yourself to do, four years hence the country will punish you, you will be defeated not for your sins of omission, considering that many of these pledges could not possibly be carried out, but for making those inconsiderate pledges.


Mr. W. G. WEIR (Macdonald):: Coming
as I do from one of the older rural constituencies in western Canada, I desire to make a few observations.
I have listened with a good deal of interest to the debate so far, and particularly to the h'On. member for Marquette (Mr. Mullins); and without in any way reflecting on that honourable gentlemen or the constituency he represents, permit me to say that the constituency of Macdonald is quite as good a constituency as Marquette, and in many respects better. The electors are just as intelligent, and there are very few, if any, cowless, sowless, chickenless farms.
I would like to indicate briefly to this house the very definite efforts the farmers of Macdonald constituency are making towards stabilizing their agricultural business, and I think it applies equally well to the rest of Manitoba.
It may not be generally known that the first bovine tuberculosis free area to be established in the British Empire was established in the constituency of Macdonald a few years ago. This area has served as the centre from which several agricultural activities of far-reaching importance have been developed. It has gradually been extended both locally as well as in other parts of Canada. This same area has for some time been recognized as an improved sire area, and when the provincial government introduced its system of agricultural representative, it was one of the first to take advantage of it. There have for many years been established sire clubs of one kind or another, making possible the securing of the best sires in the country in a cooperative way.
Very tangible evidence of the efforts of the farmers of my constituency can be gleaned

from the recent exhibition held in the city of Brandon. In looking over the list of prize-winnings in grains and grasses, fully 25 per cent have been won by farmers in Macdonald constituency; including the championship in barley, won by Mr. John Wiener of Miami,-a member of the Miami Cooperative Barley Growers Association. A similar honor was won by Mr. George Knox of the same place at the Toronto Royal last fall. The farmers of Miami district have for years paid particular attention to producing high quality barley for malting purposes as well as for seed, and have annually some 40,000, to 60,000 bushels for sale.
Looking further afield, one can note that the farmers of Manitoba have established a very enviable reputation in the larger Canadian and American exhibitions in winning more than their share of the prizes. Manitoba butter-makers have a most enviable reputation in the larger butter shows of Canada, the creameries of Macdonald constituency being well among the winners as well as the Manitoba cooperative dairies. The honey producers of Manitoba have established for Manitoba honey a reputation that is second to none in the world.
In the matter of quality hog production Manitoba stands high. Car lots of bacon hogs selected from the products of the boys' and girls' clubs, as well as of individual exhibitors, have been consistent winners at the Toronto Royal. And I venture the assertion that there is not another area in western Canada that consistently ships to the market as high a percentage of bacon type hogs as does the constituency of Macdonald.
I do not mean to imply that the farmers of Manitoba or the constituency of Macdonald have reached perfection as regards quality production, but I do say they are doing their part, and that the farmers of this older, longer established district should be in as good a position as any farmers in western Canada to withstand this period of depression.
I am setting out these facts to indicate that so far as the farmers of my constituency are concerned they are at least doing their part. They are producing high quality products which the markets of the world demand and it is only fair for them to say to the governments of this country, both provincial and dominion: "We are doing our part. What are you going to do for us?"
We have, however, areas even in Macdonald constituency quite unsuited for live stock, and one area in particular that presents a serious problem on account of drainage. Three years ago the people there could not put in a crop because of flood conditions.

The Address-t-Mr. Weir (Macdonald)
The next year they got in their crop but could not take it oS because of water lying in their fields. Many farmers had to bring their stock into the bams during the month of August and to keep it there until such time as the water receded. As an indication of what these flood conditions mean, I might state that the Sperling cooperative elevator handled in 1927 approximately 400,000 bushels of grain while for the following two years that mark was reduced to something in the neighbourhod of 100,000 bushels, and much of that had to be resold locally for seed and feed. This district now has drainage facilities but their installation has increased taxes to such an extent that the farmers cannot carry the load under present conditions. That problem will have to be handled by someone very soon or one of the best wheat growing areas in western Canada will be abandoned.
Strange as it may seem, so far as live stock production is concerned, even considering the flood conditions during certain seasons, this area has no permanent supply of water for stock. There are no wells, creeks or rivers; they have to depend wholly upon dug-outs for their water supply, which I think everyone will agree does not offer an adequate or reliable supply for mixed farming.
I venture the assertion that the farmers as a whole have put in a reasonably good winter. I do not suppose that very many on the farms have suffered from hunger during the past few months, nor do I suppose that many have suffered from the cold; but it has been a mild winter. One coal dealer told me that hi3 business had been reduced some 50 per cent during this last winter. So far as the farmers in my district are concerned, they have spent very little for clothes or anything which was not absolutely necessary. In the majority of cases, any money spent for ordinary living expenses was money which should have gone to pay taxes and interest on mortgage indebtedness.
During the past six or eight months I have met many farmers, who have pioneered this country, established good homes, educated their families, and contributed much to their local communities as well as to the country as a whole. I am sorry to say that these same men, ordinarily considered as well established, successful farmers, are greatly concerned and worried at the present time. They tell me that they are unable to pay their taxes or their interest charges and that the banks are reluctant to loan them money. They inquire as to the advisability of putting in a crop; they say that in the main they can put in a crop but they cannot afford to take a loss again this year as they have for
2211ft-42
the past two years. Their greatest concern, Mr. Speaker, is their lack of security in their homes and holdings. Homes they have spent a lifetime in building up are subject to such mortgage indebtedness that they are fearful of being dispossessed. That is what is bothering the western farmer at the present time.
Is it any wonder then that the farmers are Baking what this government is going to do for them? They see tariffs raised to help the manufacturer, and money paid out for unemployment relief, and they naturally want to know what the government is going to do with respect to agriculture. Before Christmas I was telling these men to wait until December 30, but since that time I have been forced to say that I do not know what the government's policy is going to be. These men do not want to put in another crop under uncertain conditions and they are still waiting for an announcement from the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Weir) or from some other member of the government as to what the policy of the government is going to be in respect to agriculture.
The situation confronting the western farmer is one that requires the most serious consideration on the part of this government and something must be done immediately^ in order to renew his confidence-something that will have immediate effect. To that end I feel it is essential that our Dominion and provincial governments give assurance without delay that they will protect the farmer in the security of his home and holding. To that end, it may be necessary to declare some form of moratorium. Of course, that is only delaying the evil day but it may serve the purpose until something else can be done or until world conditions improve. It would give the farmer a renewal of confidence and courage and enable him to carry on.
As a second measure of relief, I wish to associate myself with those who have already contributed to this debate in urging a reduction of interest rates. It is the accumulation of debt that is bearing down the western farmer; it is interest added to principal and interest on principal and interest added to that again. The farmer has been obliged to carry the whole load of this depression without being able to pass it on. A reduction in interest charges would mean much to him and in the long run I think it would mean a good deal to those people from whom he has borrowed.
As a further suggestion, I would associate myself with those hon. members who have been urging a reduction in our domestic freight rates, particularly on the shipment of

658	COMMONS
The Address-Mr. Weir* (Macdonald)
our western feed grains to eastern Canada and British Columbia as well as interprovincially, coupled with an extensive campaign on the part of this government to popularize western barley among eastern feeders. Allow me to pause to congratulate the hon. member for Souris (Mr. Willis) on the very valuable contribution he made to this debate a few days ago with regard to the feeding value of our western barleys, as compared to corn. Our agricultural colleges are doing a great deal in an experimental way to demonstrate the value of western grains for feeding purposes, and the more information that can be gotten out, such as that given by the hon. member for Souris the other night, the better. We in the west always have been obliged to use these grains and I do not think anyone can say that they have not been reasonably satisfactory.
Mr. Beatty of the Canadian Pacific Railway has come forward with a plan for a revolving credit scheme to assist the western farmer to go into mixed farming, particularly for the purchase of live stock. An offer to reduce the domestic freight rate on feed grains within Canada would have been much more acceptable. In speaking to my constituents I find that they are not at all enamoured of this idea of a revolving credit scheme. To them it means more debt, and debt is what is worrying them at the present time. What the western farmer is looking for is lower interest rates, lower freight rates, lower tariffs and an opportunity to pay his debts and at the same time maintain a reasonable standard of living.
I would like also to urge upon the government the necessity of gathering more world Statistics with regard to live stock, dairy products and poultry. We are furnished with statistics with respect to wheat and other grains but we need more information concerning other farm products. More attention should be paid to the gathering of world-wide statistics in this regard.
I would urge upon the Minister of Agriculture the necessity of doing something towards assisting the marketing of hogs next fall. The farmers of western Canada this summer have gone extensively into hog raising and there will be a tremendous increase in hog production by next fall. They have attempted to use up their low priced feed grains, and in this they have been encouraged .by local institutions, including the banks, the mortgage companies, the railways and the governments.
I think it is essential that our Department of Agriculture come forward with some scheme
IMr. W. G. Weir.]
which would assist in the marketing next fall of the largely increased supply of live hogs. If the minister can offer a scheme which will assist this situation, I, for one, will lend him my wholehearted support.
Just here I should like to emphasize the remarks made by the hon. member for Southeast Grey (Miss Macphail) in respect to an agricultural policy, particularly that part where she states:
All farm or agricultural colleges should to-day teach cooperative marketing of farm products as aggressively as in the past they taught, and are still teaching, greater production. As the central idea of their programs they should have cooperative marketing of farm products, and the government should lend its full moral support to any efforts made along the lines of cooperation.
Those are exactly my sentiments. I do not think a successful agricultural policy can be established that does not take into consideration (the actual producers on the land, nor do I think any agricultural policy can be successfully carried out that does not return to the producers the highest possible proportion of the price which the consumer has to pay.
The farmers of Manitoba are looking to the government to see that Fort Churchill has a fair opportunity to operate particularly in respect of rail rates to and from Churchill as well as ocean rates and marine insurance. As a further effort to develop trade at Churchill, the advisability of making it a free port might be taken into consideration. I understand that it costs from S100 to 81,200 for harbour dues at some of our larger ocean poi'ts, and if charges like those are made to apply at Churchill, this would impose quite a heavy burden upon the boats using that port. If, on the other hand, this being a wholly government-owned port, the government could forego those charges, at least in the initial stages of the development of the port, that would go a long way toward developing trade there and perhaps have favourable effect on ocean rates to and from Churchill.
In closing, let me repeat what I said at the beginning: the farmers in my constituency, which is one of the oldest constituencies of the province, are doing their part honestly and conscientiously-and I know the same is true of the farmers of the whole of Manitoba as well as of western Canada- but they are not going to be able to carry on for very long under present conditions. In fact, some of them have not been able to carry on thus far. The government has given assistance to the manufacturers and to

The Address-Mr. Simpson (Simcoe)
the unemployed. Surely the farmers are equally entitled to some consideration and assistance from the government.
At six o'clock the house took recess.
After Recess
The house resumed at eight o'clock.


Mr. J. T. SIMPSON (North Simcoe):: I desire in the first place, Mr. Speaker, to extend my congratulations to the mover (Mr. Cormier) and the seconder (Mr. Porteous) of the address in reply to the speech from the throne. It has been repeatedly stated during this debate that the French-speaking members who understand and speak both ' official languages have a considerable advantage over the English-speaking members of the house, and that advantage was clearly demonstrated by the mover of the address who spoke very fluently in both languages. To him and to the seconder of the address, whose riding adjoins my own, and who redeemed that riding for the Conservative party, I extend my heartiest congratulations. The hon. member for North Grey (Mr. Porteous) is a young and able man, very popular in his own riding, and for him I predict a long and useful representation in this house.
During this debate we have listened to many speeches and to some able speeches. Coming to this house as I do, a new member, one gets the impression that the opinions of many of the members are local and provincial. That is not to be wondered at because each of us is more concerned with his own particular riding and his own locality. However, I also gather that all the representatives in this house, are here for the common good of Canada, and I can assure the Prime Minister (Mr. Bennett) that so far as this side of the house is concerned, at least, he has a united and loyal party supporting him and his policies.
We have heard many complaints from hon. members opposite as to the conduct of the elections in their own ridings, and as to how they were treated by their opponents during the campaign. I myself could unfold a tale of woe, but it would not be instructive, nor do I think the members of this house would be particularly interested in it. Many of the complaints which have been made, it seems to me, come from those who tried to put something over their opponents and were disappointed at not being able to do so. They have received a chastisement at the hands of their electors and are still smarting under the sting.
22110-42j
Much criticism has been made of the present administration and particularly of the leader of the government himself, personally. The hon. member for Southeast Grey (Miss Mac-phail) during her address took occasion to thank the Prime Minister for a certain appointment that he had made, that of the Hon. G. Howard Ferguson, to be Canada's representative in Great Britain, or, as the hon. member saw fit to style him, Canada's minister plenipotentiary to the court of St. James. She thanked the Prime Minister from the bottom of her heart, she said, for having made that, appointment. She said that it was a great relief to the province of Ontario, but it was very hard on the court of St. James.
I have no brief to speak for the Hon. G. Howard Ferguson, nor do I think the hon. member for Southeast Grey and the members who supported her in that statement have any brief to speak for the electors of the province of Ontario. The Hon. G. Howard Ferguson was Minister of Lands and Forests in the province of Ontario from 1914 to 1919 in the government of the Hon. Sir William Hearst. At the provincial elections in 1919 Mr. Hearst's government W'as defeated and the United Farmers of Ontario came into power in the province of Ontario. Not only was the Hearst government defeated in that election, but Sir William Hearst himself and more than half his ministers met personal defeat at the polls. The United Farmers of Ontario had the largest group of elected members in the house, and that party was asked to form a government. No member of their own party elected at that time would undertake to form a government, and so the party called on one Mr. Drury to lead the government, which he did. Perhaps the fame of that government has reached Ottawa. Some of the members here may have heard of it. At any rate Mr. Drury formed a government, which carried on for four years. After the election of 1919, only 21 per cent of the candidates elected were Conservatives. The Conservative group was the smallest in the province. The United Farmers of Ontario had the largest group and the Liberals the second largest group, and they were therefore the official opposition. Mr. Ferguson after that election was asked to take the temporary leadership of the Conservative party. He did so reluctantly, and led the party in opposition for four years. During those four years the government in power did everything they could to blacken Mr. Ferguson ami his political life before the electors of Ontario. Commissions were appointed and investigations held into Mr. Ferguson's administration
660	COMMONS
The Address-Mr. Simpson (Simcoe)
of the Department of Lands and Forests under the government of Sir William Hearst, but during all these investigations and in all the reports by different commissions there were no charges proven against Mr. Ferguson's administration. In 1923 the United Farmer government of Ontario appealed to the electors of the province for a renewal of their confidence, but the result of that election was that instead of 21 per cent of the elected members being Conservative, more than 50 per cent were returned supporting the policies of the Hon. Howard Ferguson as leader of the Conservative party. The Lieutenant-Governor asked Mr. Ferguson to form a government, which he did. That government administered the affairs of the province for three years, and then appealed to the electors. At that election Mr. Ferguson was returned, not merely with 50 per cent of the elected members as Conservatives, but with over 70 per cent of the elected members supporting him and his policies. He carried on for another term of three years and again appealed to the electors of the province of Ontario. Instead of 70 per cent, 85 per cent of the elected members of the province of Ontario were elected to support the Hon. G. Howard Ferguson. During his administration his policies had been altogether at variance with those of the party to which my hon. friend from Southeast Grey and her supporters belong. No members in or out of this house have a record such as his, and considering his record I think it is not very fitting that hon. members should speak of the Hon. G. Howard Ferguson as they have spoken of him in this house. I am one of his admirers and supporters and I feel that the affairs of the Dominion of Canada in Great Britain are safe in his hands. The Prime Minister of Canada is to be congratulated on making that selection and appointment.
Many times during this debate mention has been made of the present depression in our Dominion. It has been insinuated that the present government is responsible for that condition. The hon. member for South Perth (Mr. Sanderson) after telling the house that his was a rural riding, that the farmers in his constituency were noted for their thrift, and that the soil in South Perth was noted for its fertility, said that the farmers were very bitter towards the present administration because of the low prices they were receiving for their produce. He said that if there were an election at the present time the result would be different. I want to say to him that he and his colleagues should get down on their marrow bones and thank their Maker that the general election was held in the year 1930 	.
and not in 1931. If the election had been postponed until 1931 there would not have been enough Liberal members elected to form a corporal's guard. They would have been banished to the shades of opposition where they would have remained for a considerable time.


Mr. SPENCE:: And will remain.


Mr. SIMPSON (Simcoe):: The hon. member for Southeast Grey made some comparison between the present depression and that existing between the years 1921 and 1924. In the comparison she stated that in the previous depression the high prices that the farmers received for their produce had provided them with a surplus with which they were able without serious effects to tide over the period of depression. She said that at the present time however they had no surplus and consequently they were in very bad straits indeed. On the other hand the right hon. leader of the opposition (Mr. Mackenzie King) in his address to this house dwelt at length on the prosperity of Canada during his administration, and quoted figures to support his contention. He gave figures concerning the amount of goods exported -from Canada in the year 1922, the first year of his administration. The right hon. gentleman told the house that in that year we exported $740,000,000 worth of goods. In 1923 the value of exports was $931,000,000; in 1924, $1,045,000,000; in 1925, $1,069,000,000; in 1926, $1,315,000,000; in 1927, $1,252,000,000; in 1928, $1,228,000,000; in 1929, $1,364,000,000, and in 1930, $1,120,000,000. In other words when the -present leader of the opposition came into power Canada's exports amounted to $2,000,000 daily, and during the last year he was in power they amounted to $3,000,000 daily. He stated further that when the policies of his government began to become effective there had been a surplus from year to year. His first surplus, -amounting to $36,000,000, occurred in the year 1924. From that he had a surplus every year until 1930 when the surplus was $47,740,000.
From this picture hon. members might think that Canada was in a very good condition financially, but the right hon. leader of the opposition did not give the house a full statement of the facts. He should have told the house the amount of goods imported into Canada during the same time. In the year 1922 the imports and exports were about the same in value. Exports were valued at $740,000,000 and imports at $748,000,000. The imports increased from year to year until the year 1930 when the goods imported into the Dominion of Canada amounting to $1,248,000,000. In other words when the present leader

The Address-Mr. Simpson (Simcoe)
of the opposition came into power the imports were about $2,000,000 daily and during the last year they were about three and one-half million dollars daily. To my mind that fact has had a very pronounced effect on the conditions in Canada at the present time. During the last year of the late administration we were selling goods valued at $3,000,000 daily and paying out three and one-half million dollars daily for imports. That is the results of the policy of the late administration. To that policy is to be attributed to a great extent the conditions existing in Canada to-day. We have been buying in other countries what we should have been producing and manufacturing at home.
The late administration claimed that they reduced taxes from year to year and still had a surplus. No government, institution or individual likes to end a year with a deficit. What advantage is it to the fruit growers in British Columbia, central Canada or the maritimes if by showing a surplus at the end of the year they are robbed of their market? When the product of the fruit growers is ready for the market he finds that his home market is flooded with fruit imported from other countries. Those countries on account of their fortunate geographical locations have climates in which fruit ripen earlier than it does in Canada, and those fruits are allowed to enter our country before our product is ready for the market. Under the late government they were allowed in under a small customs duty. The same statement may be made concerning manufacturers. What advantage is a surplus to the manufacturer if when his goods are ready for the market there is no home market for them? The same could be said concerning market gardeners and labourers. Goods may have been imported into Canada so as to create a surplus, but those imported goods may have caused the labourer to be out of a job in the factory where he had previously been employed. This is the effect:	If you buy an article
in a foreign country, you get the article and the foreign country gets your money. If you buy the same article at home you get the article and the money is kept in circulation in your own country. The hon. member for Wetaskiwin (Mr. Irvine) in his address the other day mentioned that the Dominion of Canada might be self-supporting and practically live within itself. I think we could do that to a very great extent, and that fact was very clearly illustrated by the hon. member for Souris (Mr. Willis). He told the house that a large amount of barley was
for sale in western Canada, and he gave some comparisons which showed that tests made of Canadian barley and imported corn showed that barley was almost as good as the com for feeding purposes. I would commend that point very favourably to the feeders in Canada. Our own barley might be used in almost every case where corn is used at present, and by so doing we would keep circulating in our own country the money which we pay for feed. The hon. member for Macdonald (Mr. Weir) also mentioned the fact that more of our home grain might be used for feeding in our own country.
The fact that the increased tariff has been a benefit to Canada was very clearly illustrated by the hon. member for Lanark (Mr. Thompson), the hon. member for Stormont (Mr. Shaver) and by other members who have contributed to the debate. They cited concrete cases where factories had been opened and men were being employed at a good rate of wages because of the increases which were made in the tariff during the special session last September. I have here, sir, an article from one of our Ontario papers headed:
United States Newspaper Discusses Bennett Tariff
The article is as follows:
People in the United States are taking notice of what the Bennett tariff policy is doing for Canada. They realize that it has effectively safeguarded the Canadian market for Canadian workers without raising prices to consumers; they knowr that it is transferring a number of industries from their side of the international border to our side.
That is, from the United States to Canada. The article proceeds:
In neighbourly fashion the Times-Press says that it cannot regret Canada's good fortune and that it wishes the Dominion all progress and prosperity.
The article in the United States newspaper goes on to point out that every one of these new companies established in Canada is taking jobs from hard-pressed United States workmen in order to improve Canadian conditions. Then follows an appeal to the readers, many of whom are industrial workers, as follows:
Two American motor cars, formerly equipped with Akron-made tires, are to be made in Canada now. Their tires will be made in Canada and not by you. The men who earn wages by making those tires will be spending in Canadian stores and not in yours. They will be buying life insurance from Canadian agents and spending Canadian money to build and furnish homes, instead of patronizing v<w
662	COMMONS
The Address-Mr. Simpson (Simcoe)
That is one of the results of the increased tariff. I would also like to read an editorial that was printed in one of our newspapers during the recent recess. It states:
The King government was turned out of office because it lacked constructive force, because it lacked vision and vigour. There were those who predicted that Mr. King would lead a much more useful opposition than he did a government. Even they must be disillusioned. His own marathon speech of twenty-seven thousand words offered not a single constructive thought to assist the Bennett administration to successfully meet present conditions. For nearly five hours Mr. King indulged in carping criticism, but not one concrete suggestion of helpful character did he venture.
It was evidently a Liberal "keynote" speech. For two weeks his supporters have entertained parliament and in all the records of Hansard their addresses show no more constructive nature than did that of their chief. They awakened to conditions in 1931 to which they had been blind for at least a year, but even with the awakening, they found no solution.
It begins to appear that in opposition, as in government. Mr. King has nothing to offer in the way of constructive statesmanship.
The hon. member for Macdonald, in his address this afternoon, mentioned the fact that in his riding there were quite a few hogs being fed on the cheap coarse grains of Manitoba, and he asked what would happen next autumn when those hogs were ready for market. I will answer him in this way: In Great Britain there is a market for all the bacon Canada can produce for some years to come. We will have to feed a great many more hogs than we are feeding at present if we are to over-stock that market. Great Britain imports over 900,000,000 pounds of bacon annually, and two-thirds of that amount is supplied by Denmark. When the late administration came into power Canada supplied over 200,000,000 pounds of bacon annually to the English market, but during last year that export almost ceased.
We in Canada should have a great advantage over the Danish farmer in the production of bacon, because at least eighty per cent of the grain fed to the hogs in Denmark is imported, and a great deal of that grain comes from North America, from the United States and Canada. When you consider the long freight haul of those grains it is plain that we should be able to produce bacon for very much less than it can be produced in Denmark, but to do so we will have to educate ourselves to the bacon requirements of the British market. Every hog between snout and tail will not produce Wiltshire sides, the kind of bacon required for the British market. A bacon hog requires a certain depth; it must have a certain length and depth of side; it must be not too thickly fleshed and not too 
lean. The people of Denmark, in order to produce that type of hog, went to a great deal of trouble to educate the farmers in the right type of hog to raise and also in the art of feeding, because breed in a bacon hog is not everything. The feeder has to have a certain knowledge of feeding before he can produce the required article.
There is in Great Britain a great future for the bacon industry of Canada; there is no reason why we should not supply at least half that 900,000,000 pounds of bacon imported annually by Great Britain. This is a matter which perhaps calls for assistance by the Department of Agriculture, but it cannot be done by that department alone. The hog producers of Canada must produce the article required by the British consumer. There is a great opportunity in this regard for cooperative pork packing establishments such as are operated in Denmark.
The hon. member for Macdonald said that in catering to the consumer it was necessary to supply quality products, and that statement applies very definitely to the production of bacon. You must supply an article of the right quality.
The hon. member for Queens (Mr. Myers), during his address the other evening, had something to say with reference to the production of potatoes in his province. What he said then applies also quite definitely to the potato growers in the province of Ontario. In my riding there is considerable land which is well suited to the production of potatoes. It is not every kind of land that will produce a good potato; the soil must possess certain qualities before it is possible to secure a good crop. When I was farming on my own account we did not pretend to grow potatoes in a commercial way; the soil was not suited to the purpose. But we grew enough for our own private use, and if possibly we produced them at a loss we were not, at any rate, driving on the roads consuming gas and wearing out the tires of cars. We stayed at home, and perhaps that was to our advantage.
I do not pretend to speak about the production of potatoes; I am concerned more with the market. I would ask the Department of Agriculture, in this connection, to insist upon the enforcement of the law regulating grading. I would make it an offence for anyone transporting potatoes on the highways by truck to any market if he failed, in the case of every sack of potatoes, to have a tag attached disclosing the grade of the potatoes and the name of the producer. One unscrupulous shipper from any district will do grave injury to the whole district, and there

2'he Address-Mr. Simpson (Simcoe)
are in my riding growers who are so particular in the shipment of their potatoes as always to have their produce a little over rather than under grade. When they offer potatoes for sale there is no difficulty about their securing a market; the wholesalers accept their potatoes without question, for they know that the producers can be depended upon, and they know that the purchasers will be satisfied. For this reason the market is continuous. I repeat, I would commend to the Department of Agriculture and the minister a rigid enforcement of the regulations in this respect.
A good deal has been said during this session about old age pensions; different hon. members have had something to say about the matter. We are not particularly concerned at this time with the question whether the old age pensions act was good legislation and ought to have been put on the statute books; the fact remains that it is there. AVe are not discussing to-night the reasons for its having been put there. Reading the reports of the proceedings of parliament in 1930, I read that the leader of the opposition made the statement that the system was a vicious one.
I could not make out precisely what he meant by its being a vicious system; I did not know whether he meant that it was a vicious principle to give pensions to old people, or that it was vicious for the Dominion of Canada to contribute a portion of the pension and allow the province to administer the act. At any rate, the act stands as we have it, and is in force in all the provinces except Quebec and the maritime provinces. Those provinces contribute to the amount paid by the Dominion government to Ontario and the western provinces, and in order to make the application of the principle general the Prime Minister in the campaign said that he would have the Dominion pay the full cost of pension. The leader of the opposition in his address stated that every old man and woman was promised full pension. The present act does not go that length, nor did I understand the Prime Minister to say that; the principle was only to be extended so as to cover the whole Dominion.
I have had something to do with the administration of the act in our county, and I think it leaves room for amendment in many respects. The old age pensions legislation is a good thing for many old people. Many of these old people were pioneers in this country; they hewed out homes for themselves, raised families, sometimes large families, and in some cases were unable to accumulate any property. The result is that now they have
grown old, and can no longer earn a livelihood as they formerly did, they are without means to support themselves. I know from experience in our own county that in many cases the provisions has been of great benefit to a good many of our old people, who have done more perhaps in building up the Dominion than many of those who at the present time are driving around in expensive cars. It is making their declining days a little easier for them, so that they need not worry about where their bread and butter will come from.
I might mention one case in the town of Barrie. One of the old pensioners was receiving $20 a month. He had no family; his wife was dead, and there was no one to look after him. He takes his pension, rents a room and provides his own food. He pays something like $10 a month for a heated room in winter and prepares and cooks his own meals, and he told me that in one month, doing this, he had saved $2 over and above providing for himself. He pays for his washing. He has a cleanly appearance and dresses comfortably, and he has been able to finance himself as I have stated. A man of that type should be made finance minister. But there are some things in the old age pensions act which to my mind could be amended, and when the legislation is brought down I shall have something to say with respect to certain of its provisions.
It is said that we are passing through a period of depression; and while the late government did not administer the affairs of the country in the best interests of the people, nevertheless we should not feel the pinch as we are feeling it now. There is something for the individual to do for himself: he should be given to understand that he must live within and not beyond his means. One thing which we as a people have not been doing is precisely this; we have not been living within our means. Consequently we are feeling the pinch particularly hard at the present time.
It has been said that the present government came into power at a very inopportune time. To my mind it came in at a very opportune time; for I believe that, with its policies, and taking hold of the problems of the Dominion as it is doing and managing them in a business way, we shall in due time have a prosperous, happy and contented people.


Mr. W. A. FRASER (Northumberland):: As a new member addressing the house for the first time I respectfully ask the indulgence of this honourable assembly. I trust, Mr. Speaker, you will permit me to voice my appreciation of the dignity and fairness with
664	COMMONS
The Address-Mr. Fraser (Northumberland) .
which you discharge the duties of your office, which sometimes must be a bit uncomfortable. Before proceeding, may I pause to express my deep regard for my French Canadian colleagues in this parliament. They lend much charm to the proceedings by the eloquence of their addresses.
I have the honour to represent, on this side of the house for the first time in over forty years, one of the most important agricultural, fruit-growing and industrial ridings in the province of Ontario-Northumberland county. Cobourg, the beautiful county town, is the most important deep water port between Kingston and Toronto, serving all central Ontario, and providing a year-round base for the twice-daily Canadian National car and passenger ferries between Canada and the United States. The people of Cobourg are vitally interested in the development of the St. Lawrence deep waterway and I am anxiously waiting any announcement by the right hon. the Prime Minister (Mr. Bennett) regarding this great and necessary undertaking.
I believe the people who elected me expected that I would make myself heard in this house both in the interest of my county and in the interest of this great Dominion, not as a narrow partisan but as a sincere Canadian citizen, endeavouring in his humble way to serve them and his country, to the best of his ability. This I intend to do according to my judgment.
I have followed with keen interest the proceedings of this house and the policies of this government, both here and in London. I have endeavoured at the same time to keep in touch with the people of my riding, and I can say most emphatically to this house that they are waiting for the Prime Minister to fulfil his many election promises. This, I believe he knows to his sorrow is beyond his capabilities to do. As a representative of the people, I believe it is my duty to assist if it is within my power to improve the conditions in Canada, and with this honest purpose in view, I submit for the consideration of this house my thoughts regarding our future. I believe we should have at this time definite suggestions to place before the administration for consideration and that wise counsels should prevail.
I disclaim any special knowledge of statesmanship, but with some knowledge of both business and public matters, I cannot see why the affairs of this country should not be conducted exactly as successful business is administered.
fW. A. Fraser.]
First, Mr. Speaker, I submit the greatest possibilities for trade expansion lie with Great Britain, and that the surest, safest and most logical place for us to concentrate our efforts, in peace as in war, is with the empire. Our policy should not be Canada alone, but Canada leading the way within the British commonwealth of nations for the advancement and security of all on which our welfare depends; in this way Canada can be first. A most illustrious citizen, speaking at a Canadian Club banquet in London, said that Canada was the cornerstone on which rests the great edifice of the empire. In this I fully agree. Let us live up to this position and make the edifice the greatest structure this world has ever known. In this way, and in this way alone, can we promote our Canadian interests in trade and commerce and make sure the safety of our future. In this way we develop markets with 460,000,000 people for our surplus agricultural and manufactured products; we will have our trade lanes protected by Great Britain, and we will be doing as much business as possible with the people on whom, in my opinion, will in the future depend the very existence of civilization as we know it. Canada, situated as it is, extending from the Atlantic to the Pacific, lying in the path of empire progress, with its great railway systems, vast natural resources, industrial centres, wonderful agricultural expansion and undaunted man power, must blaze the way.
Having had to make my living in business, I do not believe business can be done by blasting. I never blasted myself into a single order in twenty years, and never tried. Blasting only results in retaliation. I am a firm believer in the principle that business is done for mutual advantage. It is much easier to do business with friends than with strangers, and we generally do our utmost by friendly relations and the quality of our goods to increase our business with our best customers, especially when selling them twice as much as we buy from them. Business is a matter of give and take; nations are only collective individuals, and sometimes you have to give more for the present to get more in the future. It is poor business to antagonize your best -customers and seldom, if ever, .can you have all your own way. Alter all, the giving and taking must be pretty well 'balanced.
Never were trade relations between corporations and individuals maintained over a period of years except by -cordial understandings, plus mutual profit. I would like to quote, with commendation, the words of the Acting Prime

The Address-Mr. Fraser (Northumberland)
Minister of Japan, who, addressing the Canadian trade delegation at a farewell dinner in Tokyo a few months ago, said, in part:
Friendship is a greater thing than trade. Without it the springs of trade will be frozen. Trade can thrive only in a genial atmosphere of mutual good feeling, and friendship rests on knowledge.
The Prime Minister is a very able lawyer and has much to do with big business, but I doubt if he has had anything to do with actual salesmanship.
Let us take stock of Britain, the customer who bought $281,838,000 of products from us last year and sold us $189,180,000 worth. Britain, during the period of 1914 to 1919, stood the brunt of the world war, in which she suffered more than any other country. She sacrificed the flower of her manhood; she lost most of her foreign trade; she lost a large part of her shipping; she financed her allies and she is paying her war debts. Other countries, to supply the needs of their people previously supplied by Britain, built industries, many of them not adapted to the country in normal times, and they have since endeavoured to protect them with high tariff walls. The United States, with war profits and nearly forty per cent of the world's gold, a country over-industrialized, took advantage of Britain's position to make a drive to expand her foreign trade before the motherland could recover.
Where does Britain stand to-day? Last year Britain's overseas trade amounted to nine billion dollars-greater than any country except the United States, and greater than the United States in manufactured products. She built 35 per cent of the world's ships, and carried nearly 50 per cent of the world's shipping. She increased her foreign investments by over' a billion dollars and she developed at home the most efficient industrial system in the world. She has less unemployment pro -rata than that high protected country the United States, and had a favourable trade balance of $195,000,000. Far from being decadent, as the Hon. Howard Ferguson will learn, she is fast regaining her pre-war position.
When Britain succeeds, Canada succeeds. Britain is a trading nation, and while we need her as a consumer she is also necessary to us as a broker to resell our surplus, manufactured or otherwise. She is a clearing house for our products on the markets of the world, and more so now than in the past.
World conditions are changing. The importance of Russia as a competitor is becoming more serious. As so well stated by His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales when opening the British industrial exhibition at Buenos Aires, artificial trade barriers which are
a menace to commerce to-day must be modified and the world economic system must be readjusted. Let us get together with Britain, before she is forced into further trade treaties with European and other foreign countries by our foolish Canada-alone policy, with its blasting methods which have made it more impossible for her to do business with us, and join the other dominions in working out the possibilities of increasing our trade within the empire, so there can be control for the benefit of the whole, even if it hurts in spots.
I submit for the consideration of this government for the adjourned Imperial economic conference the following proposal:	that a
non-political empire trade council be formed, comprising the following members from Britain and each dominion: one government representative, one outstanding industrialist, one outstanding financier, one prominent agriculturist, one outstanding economist, one outstanding transport man, and one outstanding labour representative, to study the foreign trade of their respective countries and the possibilities of encouraging the exchange of commodities with other parts of the empire; the council to meet in London within twelve months, to draft recommendations to be considered and acted upon by their different governments, these recommendations to include tariff readjustments, trade treaties, and other arrangements that they consider will further develop empire trade.
There is something like $14,000,000,000 of trade annually within the British Empire. Britain has the same right to determine her policy as Canada has. The Prime Minister knows we cannot dictate the course she is to follow; she knows her business better than we do, but she will welcome sane, reciprocal trade considerations as will our sister dominions. Britain protects our ocean trade lanes and the empire has a great world responsibility at this time.
I submit for the consideration of the government that a thorough investigation be made to devise ways and means of diverting a greater percentage of our overseas trade through Canadian ports. Last year $205,163,170, or 34 per cent of our overseas exports, and $9,849,889 of our imports, were handled by United States ports. Canada has excellent port facilities on bath the Atlantic and the Pacific where millions of dollars have been invested. Railway rates should be so adjusted as to divert the traffic through these gateways instead of through United States ports. If this is done, it will certainly help to solve the problem of unemployment. Our railways are laying off men. They need the
656	COMMONS
The Address-Mr. Fraser (Northumberland)
traffic, ouv terminal men require this work, and the sooner Canadian freight is handled by Canadians in Canada, the sooner will more of our people find employment. The Canadian railways should increase their proportion of through freight rates with United States railways. I submit to the Minister of Railways and Canals that is one of the most important policies in connection with the transportation problem in the Dominion of Canada. It is absolutely necessary for Canada to find markets for her products and to increase her foreign trade in order to cure unemployment. This can best be accomplished within the empire, with the assistance and cooperation of Britain. The influence and benefit of trade must be considered fairly in all its ramifications, and not only from a manufacturing viewpoint. The handling of imports as well as exports provides work and increases business, and in some oases much more labour is employed in handling imported commodities from the seaboard to the consumer than would be used to manufacture the same commodities in Canada. The use of Canadian raw materials and the amount of labour employed should be the yardstick of tariff protection.
I am going to issue on the floor of the house a warning in connection with protection. If the manufacturers of Canada seek and procure increased protection from the government, then the government-and this thought applies to every administration-should procure from the protected Canadian manufacturers the assurance that they will consider and put into practice the purchase of Canadian materials for every branch of their operation. Protected Canadian manufacturers should realize that the responsibility lies with them to protect and to give to Canadian labour every advantage of their protection. In this I mean not only the labour that is employed in turning out their own product, but the Canadian labour that is employed or that it is possible to employ in the production of every article that is used in their industry. My contention is that many Canadian manufacturers are free traders when they are purchasing the materials that enter into the products of their factories and protectionists when they are selling the products of those factories to the Canadian public. I am not making in this house statements that I am not in a position to verify and I state emphatically that the perspective of many Canadian manufacturers is narrow and selfish; it is antiCanadian and diametrically opposed to the policy they themselves advocate. They wish to help with employment, if they can use [Mr. W. A. Fraser.}
men profitably in their own industry, but they do not give a thought to the number of Canadians who could obtain work if they purchased as much Canadian material as possible on equal terms from other Canadian manufacturers and producers.
I agree with the Prime Minister that this is a time for action; it is a time for sane, logical and consistent action. The republic to the south of us has made it harder and harder for us to get the products of our farms and factories into their country, yet the Canadian manufacturers continue to play into the hands of United States industry. Like the Prime Minister I feel that it is a time for plain speaking and clear thinking as to the economic policy of this country and its political effect, particularly as regards Great Britain and the empire of which we are proud to form a part. First let us put our own house in order, then let us strengthen the empire so that we can in part, and as a whole, formulate a policy that will promote the interests of the British commonwealth of nations, if necessary against the rest of the world.
In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, unemployment will cease only when our trade increases. I have endeavoured to place before this house three definite ways in which employment of labour in Canada can be increased. Within the empire we have every product and commodity that is required by the people of the empire to trade. Britain is a naturally industrial and trading country; Canada has vast resources but is immature, and will naturally be so for many years to come until our population is capable of consuming a greater proportion of the product of our industries and until our population is so distributed as to lessen the distances that exist between populated centres. Our policies will have to be worked out slowly. No one has more confidence in the future of Canada than I, but we are not quite in a position to dictate to Great Britain what she shall do, and certainly we should not attempt it as long as we rely on the British navy to protect our overseas commerce. I believe in Canada as being allimportant in service and strength to the empire. Our population is made up of descendants of the two great peoples of the world, the British and the French, and we are capable of leading the way within the empire. The union of the United States on one side and the progress of soviet Russia on the other is forcing an economic alliance of the countries of Europe. A lowering of trade restrictions between the countries of Europe will mean a further decrease of Canadian trade with these countries. As a Canadian citizen and a mem-

The Address-Mr. Both well
ber of this house I state emphatically that it is the essential duty of this government to have ready to submit at the economic conference to be held in Ottawa this coming summer, definite proposals that will be acceptable to Great Britain and the other parts of the empire, for the increase of trade within ourselves.
I submit that the Prime Minister will have to change the attitude he adopted at the London conference, and I suggest that he adopt the attitude of the Hon. Charles Dunning when he said, in part:
We do not intend to meet the other countries of the British commonwealth of nations in a spirit of petty bargaining, but rather in a broad spirit of willingness to become in ever increasing measure good customers to those who treat us in like manner. This is the spirit in which we desire to meet all nations, but we believe that within the British commonwealth of nations lies the greatest measure of opportunity for development of trade, because of our common heritage, kindred institutions and a common patriotism.
A man who considers his own interest and his own interest alone, seldom succeeds; never over the long run, and it is not otherwise with nations.
With all the emphasis that I can express I desire to say that it is the bounden obligation of the present government to make sure that the economic conference to be held in Ottawa during the coming summer will be productive of ways and means whereby we can solidify the British Empire in trade as well as in sentiment.


Mr. C. E. BOTHWELL (Swift Current):: Mr. Speaker, I am taking part in this debate in the belief that it is necessary for each member of the house to bring to the attention of the government the situation as he sees it in his own constituency so that conditions in all parts of the country may be placed before the government. Everybody realizes that we are going through difficult times. No one I think blames any particular party in Canada for that. Parties may be to some extent responsible but we have a world-wide condition that must also be considered, and we must realize that no party can solve in a few days the difficulties which confront us. During the election campaign last July many of the electors in Canada I believe supported Conservative candidates in the various provinces on account of the pledges that were given at that time by leaders of the Conservative party. The people realized that Canada was in much the same position as some of the other countries in the world, and they believed that the promises that were made by the leaders of the Conservative party
throughout Canada would be carried out. Instead of going over many of the promises that were made to the electors in my constituency,
I should like to give in a sentence or two some of the representations that were made by the Conservative party's candidates in appealing to the voters of that constituency.
This is an advertisement that appeared in the press: "Bennett will win on July 28. Why? He will sell Canada's wheat crop. He will solve the unemployment situation. He will build a highway across Canada. He will keep Canadian trade for Canada and make employment for your sons and daughters." Just what influence that advertisement may have had on the electors of the constituency I do not know, but I believe that it had considerable. In any event the electors there were entitled to take at their word those who were responsible for that advertisement and expect that those pledges would be carried out. I want to deal for a moment with some of those pledges and see what has been done by the government of the day to carry them out.
We have looked in vain for any move on the part of the government that will sell Canada's wheat crop. We in the west who are dependent upon wheat have not been able to see that the government of the day has done anything to assist in disposing of our wheat crop. We still have our wheat, and we have not found a market for it. There is possibly an intimation in the speech from the throne that something along that line is going to be done. The speech in one paragraph says:
My government has explored the origins of our difficulties and is firmly of the belief that many of our problems do not arise out of world-wide depression, but are antecedent to it; and that domestic factors have also largely determined the degree of economic distress from which this country is suffering.
That may mean that the government believe that they have found a solution for some of those difficulties. The speech from the throne also says:
My ministers have had under anxious consideration the means by which an orderly marketing of the wheat crop of western Canada may be assured, and have already taken such effective action towards that end as the circumstances appear to justify. My ministers are aware that changing conditions in the world's markets may necessitate further intervention by my government, which is prepared to render whatever additional assistance may be deemed advisable in the national interest.
That, I say, contains an intimation that something will be done to enable Canada to dispose of her wheat, but up to the present time we fail to see that anything has actually been done. W'heat is to-day at almost its
The Address-Mr. Bothwell


Pierre Édouard Blondin: I must ask hon. members, and particularly those on my right at the present time, to refrain from loud conversation when an hon. member is addressing the house. Such action is not fair to anybody.


Charles Edward Bothwell: I quote:
Mr. Bennett, departing for Britain, expressed confidence in his mission, and up to the very end, when the failure of the conference became clear to all, faith existed that somehow he would induce the British government to purchase the bulk of the dominion's wheat surplus.
Mr. Bennett within the restricted ground of his "Canada first" policy, undoubtedly did his best. His offer to the British people of a preference in Canadian markets, based upon a 10 per cent increase in the duties upon all foreign products, was sincere. The weakness of the plan, so far as the British people were concerned, was that while it involved a guarantee that the British would buy Canada's wheat, there was no corresponding guarantee that the Canadian people would buy British goods. On the contrary, the actual position was that, taking account of the tariff increases imposed by the special session of the Canadian parliament, the barriers against British goods were higher than before.
In the circumstances. Canadian opinion did not greatly blame Britain for rejecting the Bennett plan.
Then,, further down in the same article I find the following:
So Mr. Bennett has returned to a Canada which has still some 250,000,000 bushels of unsold wheat, which has an acute unemployment problem, and whose declining revenues threaten an enormous deficit at the close of the fiscal year. The weakness of his position is that, like Mr. Hoover in the United States, he took office on a platform of prosperity. Mr. Bennett, electionteering told the Canadian people that failure to market the western wheat crop and prevalence of unemployment were the fruits of the Liberal ministry of Mr. King. After four months in office, and despite millions voted for unemployment relief, unemployment is still acute, and the wheat of the west remains unsold.
Even after that conference we of the west still hoped that something would be done. Towards the close of the year the newspapers throughout Canada, and particularly those of the west, heralded the visit of the Prime Minister to Regina. Through the press we were told that he was going to bring some sort of policy to the people of the west which would give us help. Everybody looked forward with hopefulness to that meeting on December 30 in the city of Regina. I believe interest was as great in all parts of the west concerning the visit of the Prime Minister as it was in my particular district. People who were not able to go to Regina to hear the speech drove miles where necessary, to hear it over the radio. We expected that we were going to hear something. I had the opportunity of listening to that address, and while it did not convey very much to me because there was nothing very definite as to the policy or plan which would be followed, nevertheless I still had hopes that the Prime Minister had something in mind which he was not in a position fully to divulge at the moment.
On January 2, I received a letter from one of my constituents, a great admirer of the right hon. Prime Minister, in which he addresses me as follows:
The Address-Mr. Bothwell

Beaver Flats, December 31, 1930. Mr. C. E. Bothwell, K.C.,
Federal Member for Swift Current.
Dear Sir:
We listened with interest to Mr. R. B. Bennett last night at Regina, and we want to be among the first to take advantage of his scheme to get into diversified farming. As you will no doubt have the particulars please let us have application forms and particulars.
Also could you tell us about the federal farm loan board or what you call it.
How about a job taking 1931 census?
This ought to be a happy New Year. Let us hope so.
I replied to that letter telling him that I did not know what this proposal was that Mr. Bennett had made in Regina on December 30, any more than he did. The only information I had was what I was able to gather over the radio, but I gave him an answer in connection with the farm loan board and told him at the same time that I was writing the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Weir) to find out what this scheme was. I directed the following letter to Hon. Mr. Weir-


Mr. CAHAN:: Mr. Speaker, I think we
might conform to parliamentary practice. It is against the rules of the house to refer to any member of the house by name; he should be referred to by his constituency.


Charles Edward Bothwell: I am sorry, Mr. Speaker; I should have referred to the hon. gentleman as the Minister of Agriculture. However, the letter refers to Hon. Mr. Weir. It is addressed as follows:
Swift Current, Sask.,
January 2nd, 1931.
The Hon. Robert Weir,
Minister of Agriculture,
Ottawa, Canada.
Dear Sir:
_ The Right Hon. R. B. Bennett, in bis address in Regina on the 30th ultimo intimated that a scheme had been worked out for enabling farmers of the west to get into diversified farming through governmental assistance.
That was the way I understood the Prime Minister's address.
I have a letter from one of my constituents to-day, Walter Smith of Beaver Flats, Saskatchewan, stating that he listened to Mr. Bennetf's address over the radio and he wants to be among the first to take advantage of the scheme. In his letter he mentions that I will, no doubt, have the particulars and he wished me to advise him just what the scheme is, and forward to him the necessary application forms.
I would be glad to have any information you can give me in this connection so that I can advise Mr. Smith.
That letter was written on January 2. On January 14, a letter was written to me by the Minister of Agriculture as follows:
[Mr Bothwell.]
Assistance to farmers in the nature of seed grain, etc.. I understand, will be made through the machinery of the provincial government as they are closer to the problem and will save the Dominion government a good deal of expense in duplicating machinery.
I hope hon. members listened to the reading of my letter and the reading of the letter in reply from the Minister of Agriculture. There is not a single word in that reply with reference to the questions which I asked. However, the minister stated that he understood that assistance in the nature of seed grain would be made through the machinery of the provincial governments. I wanted to know then what the provincial government knew about this plan which had been announced by the Prime Minister, so I wrote to Regina. The provincial legislature was then in session and a question was put on the orders of the day in order to find out what they knew about the situation. This was the question:
Have arrangements been made by the federal government with the provincial government in connection with implementing the promise made by the Hon. R. B. Bennett, in bis address at Regina on December 30, 1930, of assistance to farmer's in securing seed grain, etc.?
The answer was:
Discussions have taken place between members of the Dominion government and the provincial government regarding seed grain, and information is being asked for rural municipalities in order that appropriate action may be taken.
So still I had no information. To-day, Mr. Speaker, a question was asked of the Prime Minister as to how this finance company, or whatever it is to be called, was getting along, but apparently as yet it is not functioning, and we do not know whether or not it ever will function. In any event, if I understood correctly the answer given on the floor of the house to-day, there has been no relief of any kind given to any farmer at any place in Canada under the scheme announced by the Prime Minister last December. As a matter of fact, I believe that speech was made by the right hon. gentleman following a speech made by Mr. Beatty in London, Ontario, on December 5, when Mr. Beatty said:
To me, an unprejudiced and unofficial but not disinterested observer, it seems indisputable the Dominion government should not hesitate to intervene with an offer of assistance as a national public duty. In recent years assistance, as I have indicated, lias been given in one way or another for the removal of disabilities of manufacturing interests, of the dairy and fruit farmers of the east and British Columbia, and of the maritime provinces. More recently direct financial aid has been provided for unemployed workers. Special pro-

The Address-Mr. Bothwell
vision for the farmers of the west, suffering from difficulties which they could not foresee nor avoid, should be regarded by other groups in the country as a simple act of justice.
Yet, Mr. Speaker, although we had the definite promise that the Conservatives would sell our Canadian wheat, they went to the conference and fell down. We had the announcement in Regina on December 30 of last year that some assistance would be given to the west right away, but outside of some seed grain and possibly some gasoline provided through the municipalities there has been no relief of any kind, so far as I know, given to the west other than what assistance they received under that $20,000,000 unemployment relief bill. In that connection, I do not know but what the position to-day is worse than it was before the 820,000,000 was voted. It seems to me it is going to be impossible for the municipalities of the west to carry through such unemployment schemes again. Any person who observed the public works that were being carried on last winter under the scheme must have come to the conclusion that the municipalities could have done the work just as efficiently and as well for the amount of money they themselves were spending, without the assistance which was granted by the provincial or federal governments. That added assistance was simply being used by the workmen in order, shall I say, to lie down on the job. The work did not progress as it should. I believe it would have been cheaper for Canada if the unemployed had been put on direct relief instead of working under that Unemployment Relief Act.
I did not and do not now object to the appropriation of $20,000,000; I believe it to be the duty of this government to take steps to remedy the unemployment situation in Canada. If this cannot be done by governmental policies, then it will be necessary to do it by appropriations, because we cannot allow people in Canada to starve when we have all kinds of food in the country. However, realizing the difficulty with which the west is faced; with the western premiers coming down to Ottawa; with farmer organizations from one end of the country to the. other sending in resolutions and with deputations of farmers coming to Ottawa pleading with the government to fix the price of wheat, why was not something done? They did not hesitate in 1.917 and 1918 to peg wheat prices. They did not hesitate then when it was in the interests possibly of other people to handle our wheat. We do not know yet whether the allies got the benefit of the reduced price or whether the government got it. None of the questions asked on
the orders of the day have been answered. Ever since I have been in the house my experience has been that most of the questions asked on the orders of the day, in the course of routine proceedings, would have been answered. To-day, if you ask a minister the amplest kind of question he says, "Put it on the order paper"; and we'have not been able to receive answers to important questions asked in this house, any more than I was able to get answer to the questions which I submitted on January 2. It is time that hon. members in this house brought forcibly to the attention of the government the situation which Canada is in at the present time, and demanded some action. We believe it is the duty of this government to fix the price of wheat if they cannot do anything else. Are they not in a position to enable us to sell our wheat at fair prices after we have contributed to the manufacturers from one end of the country to the other since the inception of these tariff regulations? Surely they cannot expect us after that to go down tc defeat in the west and abandon that country just because, in a year or two of stress, the government will not come to our assistance and fix a price.
Last winter, organizations of various kinds throughout western Canada held meetings at different points, and I myself have a record of forty-three different meetings held in the constituency of Swift Current. Resolutions were passed at these meetings. I did not attend any of them with the exception of a board of trade meeting at Swift Current; but as I say, at all these meetings resolutions were adopted and forwarded to the government. I received copies of them-resolutions from boards of trade, village and rural councils, farmers' organizations and so on. Let me quote one resolution which was adopted at Pennant, Saskatchewan, on December 17, 1930, requesting that certain things be done:
1.	That the federal government guarantee a minimum fixed price of wheat for this year's crop at one dollar ($1) per bushel f.o.b. Fort William.
2.	That a board of standards be set up whose duty it will be to arrive at a proper relationship between the price which the farmer has to pay for the commodities which he purchases and the price which he receives for the commodities which he has to sell.
3.	That we urge the nationalization of currency and credit.
4.	That we demand a moratorium until such time as proper adjustments have been made.
5.	That the legal rate of interest at 7 per cent as set out in the Bank Act be enforced, and that no one shall be allowed to charge higher than the legal rate of interest.
The Address-Mr. Bothwell

6.	That the federal government, in conjunction with the provincial governments, institute a form of crop insurance.
7.	That we ask for the nationalization of the Canadian Pacific Railway Company and the re-valuation of the Canadian National.
8.	That we continue our efforts to secure for the growers 100 per cent control of the marketing of their products; first, by demanding that a grain marketing act, as suggested by the wheat pool, be placed on the statutes; secondly, that a primary products act be placed on the
. statutes.
This is the type of resolution which was passed at each of these forty-three meetings. The resolutions vary in some respects, but so far as I know there has never been received, from any member of the government, an answer to a single one of these resolutions forwarded here since December last. I cannot tell to whom the various resolutions were sent, but I have copies of them. They were directed to the attention of the government but there have been no replies.
Now, we are immersed in spring work at this season of the year and the farmers have been looking for some information from the government. They wish to know what they are to do. They do not know whether or not to seed a crop. The weather conditions are not propitious, and in any event they are taking a chance in sowing a crop. Surely, then, they are entitled to some encouragement from the government of the day in order that they may react favourably, so to speak, to the weather conditions as they are. But they can gelt no information. I repeat, Mr. Speaker, that a number of these questions that are asked on the orders of the day should be answered without our having to wait for replies through the ordinary publications of the house. These questions should be answered on the floor of the house; they are questions that concern the farmers throughout the west. Hon. members desire to send information to their constituents but they cannot do so, and it matters not whether you go to the department or ask questions on the floor of the house, you do not seem to be able to obtain any information.
I have here a letter written on April 2, and in this connection I wish the hon. member for Marquette (Mr. Mullins) were in his place to hear it. I should not like hon. members of this house to believe that the conditions throughout the west are as the hon. member for Marquette would have us understand. The letter in question is dated, at Swift Current, Saskatchewan, April 2, 1931, and is addressed thus:

Hon. R. J. Manion,
Minister of Railways, Ottawa.
Hon. J. A. Merkley,
Minister of Railways, Regina.
C. E. Bothwell, K.C.. M.P., Ottawa.
Hon. W. W. Smith, M.L.A., City.
Re-South Saskatchewan Railway and Traffic
Bridge and Southwestern Saskatchewan Development
Honourable Gentlemen:
Adverting to our previous resolutions a memorandum of which is enclosed; and as the estimates will soon be up for consideration at Ottawa and in view of the continuation of present depressed condition of agriculture, labour and business, it is imperative that some projects be undertaken in this city and district to relieve the unemployment situation, augment the circulation of money, bring about needed facilities and maintain a spirit of confidence and encouragement of our people to say nothing of absolute want and poverty of a very great section of our people. Our board most urgently request that further relief of some kind be found as other relief measures are now exhausted being only temporary relief and that now larger projects must be undertaken to enable people to earn a livelihood and at the same time afford the district and city service facilities that will be of use for all time.
The letter goes on to refer to railway construction works that should be proceeded with, such as are indicated in the resolutions that were sent down and in the corresipondence alluded to in the letter. I wish to bring this matter to the attention of the government in order that they may realize, if they have not already done so, that the situation in the west is indeed serious and that it is time something was done to encourage the people in that part of the country, especially at this time of the year when they feel that, if they are to have anything to live on this winter, they must put in a crop. They are entitled to the information they require if they are to realize out of their crop enough to pay expenses.


Mr. C. B. HOWARD (Sherbrooke):: In discussing the speech from the throne and the amendment thereto proposed by the leader of the opposition (Mr. Mackenzie King) I am not unmindful that Canada is going through one of the severest world-wide economic depressions she has ever known- this in spite of the fact that during the last election campaign Conservative candidates in the eastern townships of Quebec claimed that this depression was due entirely to the administration of the late government. I do not wish for one moment, Mr. Speaker, that you should consider me a pessimist. I am not in the least a pessimist. I know that of all countries in the world Canada, with all its troubles, is possibly best off at the present

The Address-Mr. Howard
time. With our undeveloped natural resources; with our hard-working, thrifty, kind-hearted population; with our increasing gold production and our enormous mining possibilities, to say nothing of our agricultural areas, which are second to none, we shall emerge from this crisis as we have emerged from similar situations in the past; and I am perfectly satisfied that when we get out of this depression conditions in Canada will be better than they have ever been before.
As to my own section of the country, I believe, notwithstanding the general depression that exists there also, and especially in Sherbrooke, that we are possibly better off than any place else in Canada. In my remarks, therefore, what I wish to prove is that the promises made during the last election campaign by the Conservative party have not been kept, and that the way in which the present government is handling the affairs of the country is retarding the comeback into our regular stride. The right hon. leader of the opposition (Mr. Mackenzie King), the hon. member for Quebec East (Mr. Lapointe) and other hon. members of this house have shown where these policies might carry us in our empire relations, but I want to show this house how the policies of the present government have affected my own constituency in southern Quebec.
I am not a protectionist Liberal, as most people say I am, nor am I a free trade Liberal, as others think I am, but I believe that free trade is just as bad for Canada as is the present high protection. The only policy which will benefit this country in the long run, or even at the present time, is one which is between the two extremes, one on a par with the old Liberal policy.


Mr. DUPRE:: That is what we are doing.


An hon. MEMBER:: Oh, no.


Charles Benjamin Howard: I think credit is due to
the Prime Minister (Mr. Bennett) for his sincerity, because I believe he is sincere in his ideas of what is best for Canada. But I do think, and I shall attempt to prove my argument in the short time at my disposal, that his policies are detrimental both to my own section and to Canada as a whole. The present government is in power for two reasons: First, because of the extraordinary unemployment situation which existed, and second, the falling prices of farm products, which prevailed at the time of the elections. I will not quote the many promises made by the Prime Minister, but I do want to refer to some remarks he made at a meeting held in my home town. The following is a quotation
from the paper which supported the present government during the last elections^ the Sherbrooke Daily Record, and I would particularly call the attention of the house to it:
What is the use of advertising in the town paper that John Smith is sick, without sending ior the doctor? Send for the doctor. He is the Conservative party.
The following is a remark made by the Prime Minister at that same meeting:
Canadians want the right to work and when a government fails to correct the causes of unemployment over which it has control that government can justly be charged with negligence.
The other Sherbrooke paper, La Tribune, which supported the Liberal party, in reporting that same meeting said:
Vte wish to call a special session to put an end to these conditions, because the people want work and not doles.
Bennett:	Exactly. What you want is
work and not a conference. I am not making you pledges, lightly. Should I not keep them, J ask the members who you elect to withdraw irom me their support.
This meeting was reported- to have been attended by about 12,000 people. It was held in the 54th armouries, which is situated in the centre of the industrial section of Sherbrooke. The Prime Minister then became more brave, walked to the front of the platform, pointed in the direction of one of the industries, and said: "I know I am speaking within a stone's throw of some of the finest industries in Canada; I know that those industries are on short time, and if I am elected on July 28, within thirty days the men, women and children will be going back to those industries and getting the work they should get." Mr. Speaker, two hundred and sixty-two days have expired instead of thirty and the situation is worse than it has ever been.
In the city of Sherbrooke there are 42 industries. Without taking particular examples, I desire to give the house certain information in connection with twelve of the main industries in the city of Sherbrooke.
In 1930, one of our specialty steel companies employed 125 hands, and on February 15, 1931, their employment had dropped to 100 hands.
Our largest steel manufacturing industry employed 488 hands in July of 1930; in February of this year, their payroll had dropped to 400.
One of our cotton industries employed 363 hands in July, 1930, while to-day they are employing only 323.
Another specialty steel industry employed 150 as against 125 to-day.

The Address-Mr. Howard

Another company's payroll dropped from 70 to 58.
Another large steel company was employing 119 hands only fifteen days before the last election, and on February 15 last, they were employing only 27; from 119 to 27.
A rubber company dropped from 80 to 65 and another machinery company from 30 to 10.
A silk company employing 490 in July of last year was employing that number in February of this year but it was working on shorter hours. The same would apply to other companies.
From the date of the elections to the present day there has been a decrease in employment affecting 321 hands. Most important of all, these same industries have dropped from 149,174 weekly hours to 106,904, or a slackening off of 42,270 hours per week. Figured at the ordinary price paid for labour, that represents a shrinkage in the payroll of 12 out of a total of 42 industries, amounting to over $12,000 per week. In other words, over $12,000 per week less money is being paid out to-day in the city of Sherbrooke than was being paid when the promises were made by the present Prime Minister that the unemployment situation would be cured.
In another section, close to Sherbrooke, where is produced one of the articles of which Canada boasts of controlling a large percentage of the world's supply, the candidates stated on all the hustings that because Mr. R. B. Bennett was connected with the big business men of Canada he would supply with his friends the necessary capital to put these mines on their feet as they had never been before. I do not intend to discuss this situation because the hon. member for Megantic (Mr. Roberge) will probably do so, but in Thetford Mines to-day they are producing asbestos at the lowest rate ever prevailing since the Conservatives were last in power. More than that, in the town of Black Lake, not one single mine is operating and the asbestos industry is practically ruined in that section.
If the Prime Minister were in his seat I would direct his attention to the statement he made yesterday on the floor of this house. He said that he would never consent to unemployment insurance, but I say to-night that if the manufacturers of Canada have to take on unemployment insurance in the near future they can date the cause back to the present government's attitude towards the needs of this country.
I have every respect for the hon. Minister of Labour (Senator Robertson); he is a personal friend of mine, but I say that the Minister of Labour of the government of

Canada has no right to be anywhere else than in a seat on the floor of this house. In view of the present conditions prevailing he should stand up and tell us what he intends to do.
Another cause of our defeat during the last campaign was the drop in agricultural prices, and in this connection I would like to give a few comparisons. The first thing the eastern township agriculturist has to sell is stock. I do not mean paper stock; I mean live stock. The prices on the 15th day of July, 1930 and on March 1 of this year in the town of Len-noxville, the marketing centre next to Sherbrooke in the eastern townships, were as follows:
Prices paid Prices paid
	Julv	March	
15.1930	1. 1931	Decreaseper pound	per pound	per poundLive stock	cents	cents	centsFat steers. .	6 to 8	4 to 54	2 to 24Fat cows . .	4 to 6	2 to 34	2 to 24Fat heifers .	5 to 7	3 to 44	2 to 24Canners. . .	24 to 3	1 to 14	14Veal calves .	8 to 10	5 to 7	3Drinkers . .	4 to 5	2 to 3	2Hogs....	9 to 10	5 to 6	4Sows....	74 to 8	4 to 5	34Lambs. . . .	7 to 9	44 to 64	24Sheep. . . .	44 to 54	2 to 3	24Let it be	remembered that this year in	
the month of March we should be getting a fairly decent price for these products, and I am comparing them, I think not unreasonably, with summer prices.


An hon. MEMBER:: Will the hon. member say where he is quoting the prices?


Charles Benjamin Howard: I have covered my last point and that is the reduced purchasing power. The other day I was riding on the train and went into the smoking car where there were six other men discussing that most popular question, the existing situation. They were discussing what this government was doing, what the other government had not done, and so forth, and one of them said, "Can you tell me why, with eggs at 15 cents a dozen and all other farm products at the lowest prices they have been for years, the people do not start to buy and live on these products?" I leave it to any man in this house to say how many eggs or how much lamb or pork or any other food a man with five children and a wife to support could buy with $8.88 for a week's work. Do you know what they have to do, Mr. Speaker?-and I am proud to say that they can do it. They buy a big piece of heavy meat, with the bone in the centre, a piece of extra good quality at the lowest price, and of that they make the most nourishing food, which is soup, and they buy bread and use it without butter, hoping for the time when the Liberal government will be back in power again and men will get at least a living wage.
In case some hon. gentlemen may think that these cases are overdrawn, let me say that I am not speaking of men who started to work only a few weeks ago. A man recently came to my office who had been in the service of a certain company for sixteen years. He was a sober, hard-working, industrious man, and for sixteen years, almost the best part of his life, he had been working for that same concern. He worked fifty-five hours and he drew $15 for a whole week's pay, after sixteen years of faithful service. Before the last election that same man, doing the very same job for the very same company, drew a minimum of from $23 to $25 a week, so there was a shrinkage of $10 a week in his pay since this government came into office. When the previous government was in power he was running two slubbers in a cotton mill; to-day he is running four slubbers at a reduced wage of $10 per week. I tell you, Mr. Speaker, that these are things that make one wonder where we are going to get off at.
The hon. member for Brome-Missisquoi, speaking in this house the other evening, took a great deal of credit for industries which he said had recently been established in the town of Farnham. Everybody rejoices when new industries come into our towns, especially in the eastern townships; but let us have the facts as they are. One of those industries, is a plush
[Mr. Howard.1
factory. It was established in the town of Farnham in 1929, under the administration of my right hon. leader who now sits on this side of the house. Another industry is the big linoleum concern. That was astablished in 1930, before the present government came into power, before it was ever dreamed that it would come into power. The other industry is the silk factory. It is true that that factory in the hon. gentleman's riding is fairly prosperous, but he did not tell this house that this silk company got an increased protection, and reduced the wages of every man 25 per cent. The men went on strike, and they only came back to work two weeks ago Monday at the reduced rate. The enamel industry, the only other industry in that part of the country, was started back in 1922, under the administration of my right hon. leader. My hon. friend had a special way of conducting his campaign. I suppose anybody can conduct his campaign as he sees fit, but speaking at Knowlton he said, "To hell with the national debt, but let us do something for the farmers." I ask him now what has this government done for the farmers of his constituency. My hon. friend stated on every platform in Mansonville, Brome, Knowlton and other places, that the King government was paying only 60 per cent compensation for cattle that had been slaughtered for tuberculosis, and he said that he had the right to say on behalf of the Right Hon. Mr. Bennett that if that gentleman came into power his government would paj' the balance of 40 per cent for every cow slaughtered in his constituency. Naturally the farmers voted for him. I would like to ask him- if the government have yet paid any of that balance.


Mr. PICKEL:: Mr. Speaker, I deny that statement totally, and I ask the hon. gentleman to withdraw it.


Charles Benjamin Howard: Speaking at Sherbrooke, as reported in the Sherbrooke Daily Record-


Mr. GUTHRIE:: A point of order has been raised, Mr. Speaker, and we ask you to decide it.


Charles Benjamin Howard: I will withdraw, to save time, Mr. Speaker.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Oh, oh.


Charles Benjamin Howard: The Sherbrooke Daily
Record, which supported my hon. friend, which indeed was one of his very best friends, reported my hon. friend as follows-and I ask the members from western Canada on both sides of the house to pay particular

The Address-Mr. Howard
the associated boards of trade in Sherbrooke, he said:
The western farmers also came in for considerable criticism. They were termed the greatest menace that the east has to contend with at the present time, and it was the opinion of Dr. Pickel that although everything had been done for them they would never be satisfied.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Do you deny
that?


Mr. MOORE (Chateauguay):: May I ask a question?


Charles Benjamin Howard: I did not intend to make the following statement, but as my hon. friend from Chateauguay-Huntingdon (Mr. Moore) is on his feet, I will state this: The other night he compared the offices that were being held at the present time by the Hon. L. A. Taschereau, Premier of Quebec, with the offices held by the Prime Minister of Canada, and said that they were exactly the same. But there is this difference. Mr. Taschereau has been doing double work, has been acting as premier and also as provincial treasurer because in the county where he tried to elect his provincial treasurer they turned him down. But when the next election comes in that province, the same man, Mr. Gordon Scott, will run again and will be elected as provincial treasurer. Mr. Taschereau, all honour to him, has been carrying the two portfolios in order to preserve an old tradition, that the provincial treasurer should represent the English protestant minority in that province.


William Henry Moore: May I ask my hon. friend a question?


Charles Benjamin Howard: Turning now to trade
figures, our imports have dropped 8290,000,000 and our exports have dropped $296,000,000 since this government came into power. For the past six months our trade figures were as follows and I would like to underline this in view of the publicity which the present government has received throughout Canada: The imports into Canada in the six months just ended were valued at 8465,000,000 and the exports at only S449,000,000. That is the story, Mr. Speaker.
In closing let me say that the so-called "Canada first" policy of the Prime Minister has increased unemployment in Canada since the election. That same so-called Canada first policy has lowered the prices of agricultural products and in every case has caused injustice to our farmers. That same so-called Canada first policy has placed our Canadian wheat at a price lower than that of the United States. It has decreased Canada's world
trade; it has lowered our standard of living and it has lost to Canada some of her very best markets. We have heard a great deal about the money which was granted by this house to help unemployment. I do not wish to be critical. I will do better than that. I promise the government of to-day my cooperation in any scheme they put forward before next spring which will remedy the situation I see coming. Of the money which has been given out at the present time the city of Sherbrooke was to receive $87,500, and two-thirds of $21,000, or $14,000 in direct relief. They hare borrowed the money, and taken care of the people, but they have not received one single nickel up to the present time.


Cameron Ross McIntosh: What about the farmers?


Charles Benjamin Howard: Now I have a word to say to my hon. friend on the other side of the house, the hon. Solicitor General (Mr. Dupre). My first words are to congratulate him on the splendid sentiments he expressed in this house the other day. He said:
I regret the attitude taken recently, and even during the last eighteen months, by a coalition government in one of the western provinces.


Cameron Ross McIntosh: They call it a cooperative government.


Charles Benjamin Howard: The quotation continues:
The laws enacted against the French language-one of the two official languages- by the government of Saskatchewan are an insult to the true Canadians established here for fourteen or fifteen generations. It Was in the name of God, but in the French language, that first cross was consecrated on Canadian soil. Against these laws I must protest.
As a French Canadian the Solicitor General was voicing his true, honourable sentiments. As an English Protestant Canadian I want to say to-night that those are exactly my sentiments. But then the Solicitor General added these words:
And I hope these will be repealed.
I would like to remind him that to-day he is sitting in the seats of the mighty. If he is sincere in those remarks it is within his power to accomplish his wish and to have those laws repealed. I would like also to suggest to him that one reason why his government is in power to-day may be found in the help they received from Saskatchewan, from the very man who placed that law on the statute books of that province. I want to go one step further and say that the people in Saskatchewan who are fighting the battle, not for the French Canadian but for liberty in Canada, are the Liberals iu Saskatchewan.
The Address-Mr. Hackett

I will go even further and say that I trust my English speaking friends in Saskatchewan or in any other province in Canada will accord to our French Canadian friends the same fair treatment as the old French province of Quebec has accorded to the English speaking minority in that province.
Mr. JOHN T. HACKETT (Stanstead): Mr. Speaker, since the twelfth day of last month I have listened to about ninety speeches. I am somewhat loath to address the house. My reluctance is not entirely due to diffidence, nor is it attributable to a belief that all has been said which can be usefully said. I find it more interesting to listen. It was not my intention to speak during this debate but my good intentions have yielded to the provocation-or inspiration-of the words which have fallen from the lips of the hon. member for Sherbrooke (Mr. Howard). He and I have the advantage of coming from a part of the country which, in common with all who have visited it, we believe to be the most beautiful part of the whole Dominion. It is interesting for reasons other than its topography. It is a thumb nail of Canada; .vith the possible exception of deep sea fishing there is to be found within those half dozen counties the entire range of activity of the whole Canadian people. There lumbering, farming, mining, milling, industry in factories, trade in the shops, finance, and transportation engage the attention of an active and energetic people. Moreover there is in the population a diversity of origin and outlook which makes for nicety and consideration in the relationships between man and man.
My hon. friend from Sherbrooke has spoken of this miniature Canada; he has told us his version of conditions prevailing there. My friendship for the hon. gentleman is not of yesterday, he knows that my feelings for him are both deep and sincere, but I now have for him a feeling of profound commiseration if lie believes all he has said to-night, and if he believes that all he has said is all that may be said with regard to conditions in the eastern townships. Mr. Speaker, why does my hon. friend draw a veil over his remarks? Why does he refer to industries and individuals in hazy and indefinite language? For the benefit of the house, and to establish accuracy and truth, I shall endeavour to place upon the record the names of corporations and individuals who to-day are infinitely better off and whose hundreds of employees are better off as a result of the policies of the present government.

My hon. friend has told us there is a tool company in Sherbrooke which is not doing much work. That is true. The Rand Drill Company specializes in mining equipment, and unfortunately, due to over-production, the mining industry is not being carried on as actively as it has been in years past. Because there is no demand for mining equipment there is no work for the Rand Drill Company. Is the government to blame for that? My hon. friend has told us there is a cotton mill in Sherbrooke not doing much work. Without doubt he refers to the Sherbrooke Cotton Mills-a large part of whose output is fabric used in the manufacture of automobile tires. Because there is slight activity in the automobile manufacturing industry.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Why?


Charles Benjamin Howard: Would the hon. gentleman permit a question?


Mr. HACKETT:: Very well.


Charles Benjamin Howard: Is it not a fact that for
two years they have been manufacturing no tire fabric, but are in a new product?


John Thomas Hackett: No, it is not. The Oshawa and Windsor factories are not very active at present, and because this factory specializes in a typical kind of product for which there is a limited demand, at present its employees are on short time. There is also another industry in Sherbrooke known as the Fairbanks Scale Company, whose principal product is scales used in grain elevators. Unfortunately the grain business has not been as thriving for the last year or two as it has been in the past, and the construction of grain elevators is not being carried on. In consequence there is not to-day the demand that there has been in the past for scales. Is the government to blame because the people in the west are not constructing grain elevators?


Mr. YOUNG:: Because they cannot sell
their grain.


John Thomas Hackett: Because they cannot sell their grain? They cannot sell their grain for the same reason that gentlemen in the east who have been producing newsprint cannot sell their product; they have both been producing for a market which is glutted; they have produced a commodity for which there is no market to-day.
However, my hon. friend was very careful, after mentioning these different industries, not to mention the oldest industry in Sherbrooke, the Baton Mills, one of the very few woollen mills which survived the regime of the govern-

The Address-Mr. Hackett
meat which came iato power ia 1896. My hoa. friead well kaows that ia this mill, where employment a year ago-stood at 40 per ceat oa the basis of a 55-hour week, it staads to-day at 110 per ceat. Two huadred aad seventy-five breadwinners of families in the constituency represented by my hoa. friend thank God each night for legislation which set the looms in operation in that mill and gave to the wee children of that city the food which they were denied under legislation which obtained until this government came into power.
Then, Mr. Speaker, there is the largest industry in Sherbrooke, the Kayser Company, Limited, which employs 800 hands and in which there was the slightest diminution of employment of any industry in Sherbrooke save the one in which my hon. friend is so heavily interested. That industry came back to 100 per cent employment when it got from the September session the additional 5 per cent protection which it said it required. I do not blame my hon. friend; I do not criticise him because another beneficiary of that protection was the Canadian Silk Products Company, of which my hon. friend is an honoured and esteemed shareholder and to whose success his brain and energy have contributed so largely. My hon. friend says he is not a Liberal protectionist or a protectionist Liberal. . He is the kind of Liberal who enjoys protection and wanted and got it for the industries in which he has invested his money. When he speaks in Sherbrooke to his own electorate he finds it more stimulating to express the sentiments-I know he entertains them-which marked the end of his speech than to discuss economic and fiscal problems.
I ask my hon. friend to come with me to territory which is quite as familiar to him as it is to me; I ask him to come with me to the county of Stanstead, whence his forebears came. I know him too well to fear that he will deny for one moment that the legislation put on the statute books by this parliament last September gave abundant, generous and life giving employment to a large percentage of the population of that riding. He knows that in Magog, where less than 1,000 hands were employed by the Dominion Textiles Limited, 1,600 people are engaged at the present time, with over-time several nights a week. He knows that in the town of Coaticook the Belding-Corticelli Company is more busily engaged than it has* been for years, and he knows why. He knows that in the same town the Neidner Company, which manufactures fire hose now gives generous employment to the inhabitants which it could not give before, and he knows why.
He knows that in other towns throughout the eastern townships, including the towns referred to by the hon. member for Brome-Missisquoi (Mr. Pickel) the towns o:f Drum-mondville, Actonvale, Granby and St. Hyacinthe, this depression which, as he said, weighs upon the whole world, has brought less trouble and less suffering than it has elsewhere.
I did not intend, Mr. Speaker, and I do not wish, to indulge in a discourse at this time.
I have listened to the speeches which have come from hon. gentlemen opposite; they all have been vastly interesting to me. I have found however that many of them were so flavoured with party wine that they intoxicated the speakers, if not the house.
I have listened to criticism, both candid and catholic, which in its range has gone from the meagre notes used by the hon. gentleman who moved the address-I may tell the right hon. gentleman who uttered that criticism that I envy greatly the gentleman who had the notes and I wish I were in his happy position at the present time. That criticism has extended, Mr. Speaker, from the use of notes by a novice away overseas to the members and even mannerisms of one of those who were sent to the Imperial conference. Criticism has even knocked at the door of our ministers to foreign lands. References that have been made in this house to our minister to Great Britain, to our minister to the United States, have not been suited, however intended, to enhance the repute of Canada in those countries. To those who are better versed than I in matters of this kind, such language may seem commendable; but to a neophyte, standing on the threshold of the temple and still charged wtih respect for all who wear his country's livery in a foreign land, it seemed clumsy if not intemperate.
I have listened, Mr. Speaker, to this criticism; I have listened to gentlemen set forth their points of view; I have felt, notwithstanding their sterile criticism, that they are desirous of doing something to alleviate human suffering which, possibly for purposes of debate-and it may be that all sins of that character are not on one side of the house-has been somewhat exaggerated. Just exactly what is to be done to afford employment, and just how unemployment is to be obviated in the future, is a matter which will have to be carefully studied and considered. I believe, Mr. Speaker, that unemployment must be a charge or a partial charge on industry. Just so long as municipalities, just so long as government, just so
The Address-Mr. Hackett

long as private charity and suffering humanity are to be made to bear the total burden of unemployment, I fear that it will persist.
I believe that we must regulate industry. I believe we must find a plan which will extend over a number of years and give steady employment: employment when there might otherwise be unemployment, and to prevent overwork when work is abundant. Long hours and night shifts are unnatural, and brutalizing. I believe a system of this kind will have to be worked out and legislation enacted to implement it. Just as this Dominion has led the way in other realms, just as it found a way to end industrial disputes, with their ravages both to labour and capital; just as it led the way in the realm of governmental improvement, growth and development-because it was Canada that pointed the way to all other dominions, even the old land itself, to autonomy within the empire-I believe Canada can find a way out of the difficulties of the present day and find a specific which will preclude a recurrence of them.
There is one other subject to which I should like to refer before taking my seat. It may be because of my lack of experience in this house that I marvel that no one has yet referred to it. We have heard much about wheat; we have heard much about the troubles that beset the west; and I may say to hon. gentlemen from the west that we sympathize with them. And I, for one, envy them that organization which makes them vocal when they suffer-equal hardship in the east is not quite so expressive. I desire, Mr. Speaker, to refer very briefly to an aspect of our national life which seems to me worthy of every consideration. I refer to our great national system of transportation. Recently there has been laid upon the table of the house a document called the Annual Report of the Canadian National Railway System. If there is one thing which has contributed more to the financial and fiscal difficulties of Canada, possibly even more than the war itself, it has been the rivalry in the construction and operation of railways. That rivalry, carried on under the smile and even the protection of government, brought about such a chaotic condition that government went into the business of transportation. I know full well that many members in this house will not agree with me; but I am of those who believe that if a. government make wise laws and administer them wisely it has fulfilled the principal function of government.
I believe that government should not enter competitive business, whether it be liquor, hydro-electric, transportation, or any other of

a dozen ventures in which provincial governments are engaged at the present time. Be that as it may, it is well that we in this moment of depression, at a time when we are seeking for means to pay Canada's way, when our estimates have been cut, to use a very trite expression, to the bone, when all public works have been abandoned-it is well, I say, that we should take stock of this enterprise which is making such a terrible drain upon our financial resources.
I find, Mr. Speaker, that the total liabilities of the Canadian Pacific Railway are $950,000000; I find that the total liabilities of the Dominion of Canada-I am not speaking of the net debt-are $2,544,000,000; I find that the total liabilities of the Canadian National Railway System are $2,S70,000,000; I find that the funded debt of this railway, the debt upon which interest is owed to the public, is something over $1,200,000,000; I find that the interest owing to the public, interest that is to be paid annually, is $51,000,000; I find that the interest upon the debt of the Canadian National Railways is over $80,000,000 a yearsomething over $10,000,000 a year in excess of the total revenue from the income tax in the most abundant year of which we have, records. I find from the last departmental report that this debt is forever increasing.
I pause here to lament that these reports should be so difficult to understand, There is a fiscal year for the Dominion government which ends on March 31, and there is a fiscal year for the railways which ends on December 31, and betwixt December 31 and March 31 there is a bedevilment which no ordinary man is able to disentangle or understand. I commend a form of report more simple and better suited to reveal rather than to conceal the facts of the year under review.
I find in the last report which has been laid before the house, the report of March 31, 1930, that the long term debt of the railway for which the government is responsible was increased during that year by some $163,000.000. I find that in 1914 the total debt of the Dominion of Canada amounted to $335,000,000. I find that in seven years the liability of the Dominion of Canada has been increased by nearly twice that amount by reason of the inordinate and lavish expenditure of the Canadian National Railways.
I find in the statute of 1929 authorization for the construction of a passenger station and terminals in Montreal and I find even now that that consuming rivalry which has made such demands upon the fiscal and financial life of

The Address-Mr. Hackett
our country is about to grab another $100,000,000 for purposes of dubious utility. We find that a passenger station and terminals are to be built in the city of Montreal for the Canadian National Railways within a stone's throw of another railway's passenger station.
If Montreal needs a terminal, it needs a union terminal. We know from recent sad experiences that when undertakings of this kind are set afoot they sometimes require more than double the amount anticipated, and while the statute, provides for an expenditure of $50,000,000, those who are best informed tell us that this scheme cannot be carried to completion for less than $100,000,000. When this expenditure has been made, not one car will have been added to the carrying capacity of the railways, not one additional passenger will have been found for their, carriages, not a penny added to their coffers. We have shut off immigration; we know that passenger traffic is dwindling; we know that automobile and air traffic are impinging upon the erstwhile predominance of locomotive traction and conveyance. All it means is this: that a few passengers may be attracted to that glittering monument from the rival across the way, and that that rival will have to erect a similar edifice to folly to protect itself against the allurements of this child of our statute. Is it necessary?
I for one feel that this matter should be very carefully investigated. Some years ago we were told by hon. gentlemen on both sides of the house that the railway committee had not the technical information or knowledge to decide matters of engineering which were essential to the good administration of the railway. That was the reason given for the creation' of the Board of Railway Commissioners, and yet this, the largest railway undertaking in eastern Canada, has been embarked upon without reference to that technical organization.
We are told now that a project to girt the island of Montreal with a second and altogether unnecessary line-it may be said that I have no quality to express an opinion, but surely my qualifications are equal to those of the hon. members who passed the legislation -is to come before the Board of Railway Commissioners on the twenty-seventh of this month. To the best of my knowledge, the recently appointed chairman of the Board of Railway Commissioners has not yet arrived in the city and the board has not been completed by the appointment of a member from the
province of Quebec. In these scant ten days there is no time for preparation of a case against the proposed 'belt line or for a union station. I for one protest against this unseemly haste. I ask this house: why should we be dragooned into expenditures of ten, fifty or one hundred millions of dollars when money is not available for other purposes which are more urgent? I want to know what useful purpose is to be served by this terminal and by this second belt line. Is it going to reduce the rate on wheat from the west? Is it going to give employment to people in Toronto, in Winnipeg or in Vancouver?


An hon. MEMBER:: What about Montreal?


John Thomas Hackett: It may give some employment in Montreal, but my hon. friend must remember, and I am sure that he does, that the curse of such log-rolling ha9 been holding this land in its grip for the last sixty years. Montreal must have a terminal because Toronto has one! and the country must pay the piper. I for one protest against such action. I do not say that the terminal is not necessary, but I want to hear that it is necessary from people who know and who are disinterested and not from people who are interested in supplying materials which are to go into their construction, not from people who may achieve self-glorification from participation in a huge enterprise. It seems to me that this matter should be discussed without undue haste at this particular moment when money is so scarce and when we are taking stock of all our sins of omission as well as of commission. Before it is proceeded with I want to be told by expert opinion, by those who have had time to consider this project, that it is necessary and that p union station is impossible. I have no desire to see the Canadian National Railways subjugated to the Canadian Pacific Railway. I have no desire to see the Canadian Pacific Railway subjugated to the Canadian National Railways, nor do I want Canada subjugated [DOT]to either. If it is necessary, let us call into existence an operating or terminal company, a third and independent entity which would mete out equal justice to all: to the Canadian National, to the Canadian Pacific, to Montreal and to Canada.
On motion of Mr. Nicholson the debate was adjourned.
On motion of Mr. Manion the house adjourned at 10.50 p.m.
Bankruptcy Act

Friday, April 17, 1931