1931-06-01

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The clerk of the house laid on the table the report of the clerk of petitions stating that he has examined the following petition presented on the 29th day of May, and finds that the time for receiving petitions for private bills under standing order 92 having expired, it should not be received:
Of Annie Bick Bardeir, of Montreal, Quebec, now residing in London, England; praying for the passing of an act to declare her marriage with Kenneth C. Border, of Montreal, to be dissolved and that she be divorced from him.- Mr. Heaps.
Mr. A. A. HEAPS (North Winnipeg):: moved:
That the petition of Annie Bick Border, of Montreal, Quebec, now residing in London, England. praying for a bill of divorce from Kenneth C. Border, of Montreal, together with the report of the clerk of petitions thereon, be referred to the select standing committee on standing orders for the purpose of considering the suspension of standing order 92 in relation thereto.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.

[Stage Direction]
SUPPLEMENTARY RETURN TO ORDER OF THE HOU/3E
Hon. E. B. RYCKMAN (Minister of National Revenue):: Referring to the inquiry on Thursday last of the hon. member for St. Denis (Mr. Denis), concerning return No. 277, the return as brought down includes a copy of all the documents on the official departmental record relative to the retirement of Mr. J. A. Bernier, inspector of customs and excise at Montreal. On making inquiry, however, it has been ascertained that the

chief inspector was advised verbally and confidentially that Inspector Bernier's expense accounts were inaccurate, and in order to ascertain the facts the chief inspector instructed Inspector C. E. Lafontaine by letter to make a confidential investigation. A copy of the chief inspector's letter and of Inspector Lafon-taine's confidential reply are now produced.
The officials who prepared the return had no knowledge of the correspondence on the chief inspector's file.



PRIVATE BILLS


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Bill No. 77, respecting the construction and maintenance of a bridge over the St. Lawrence river between the island of Orleans and the coast of Beaupre, in the province of Quebec.-Mr. Dorion.

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Bill No. 75, for the relief of Barbara Wallace Barlow.-Mr. Factor.
Bill No. 76, for the relief of Ray Finkel-stein.-Mr. Factor.


Hon. C. H. CAHAN (Secretary of State):: As requested by the hon. member for South Essex (Mr. Gott), I now table supplementary answer to question answered on the 4th May, 1931, as it appears in Hansard at pages 1233 and 1234.


Mr. GOTT:: 1.	How many pounds of tobacco, raw leaf, were imported into Canada for the 12 months ending March 31, 1931: (a) from the United States; (b) from other countries?
2. How much manufactured tobacco was imported for the same period from all countries?
3.	How much excise tax was collected on cigarettes for the year ending March 31, 1931?
4.	How much in excise or other taxes was collected by the government of Canada, all branches, from the tobacco industry, all branches, for the same period?
5.	How much tobacco was exported from Canada during the same period?
6.	To what countries was it exported?


Mr. CAHAN:: 1.	Canada's imports of tobacco, unmanufactured, by countries, for the year ended March 31, i931, were:

Questions
Countries	Pounds	$(a) United States.. ..	15,092,356	4,335,903(b) Other countries-	Argentina	8	4Belgium	15,552	8,232Brazil	157	53Bulgaria	607	273Cuba	1,179,884	923,340Germany	3,109	1,605Greece	10,735	5,155Italy	50,604	18,790Netherlands	68,616	81,501Dutch East Indies.	83,809	76,701Russia	306	105Spain	5	5United Kingdom..	74,646	37,282(b) Other countries.	1,488,038	1,153,046Total imports. ..	16,580,394	5,488,9492. Canada's imports	of tobacco,	manufactured, by countries,	for the year ended	March 31, 1931, were:	Countries	Pounds	$Aden	. .. 16	29Alaska	. .. 84	101Belgium	... 201	1,011British South Africa	. .. 100	57British West Indies-	Jamaica	. .. 496	2,859Other Br. W. Indies.. 68	288China	. .. 7,680	2,562Cuba	. .. 12,955	92,429Egypt	. .. 513	2,681Finland	. .. 54	107France	. .. 715	737Germany	. .. 5	7Hong Kong	. .. 18,451	6,644Irish Free State.. .	. .. 25	77Netherlands	. .. 64	40Dutch East Indies.	. .. 15	25Newfoundland... .	. .. 42	24Norway	. .. 30	23United Kiijgdom. .	. .. 189,450	620,883United States. .. .	. .. 176,211	244,214Total imports	
407,175	974,7983.	There is no excise tax on cigarettes as in the case of cigars. There is a consumption or sales tax of 1 per cent on cigarettes but the amount collected is not available as separate statistics for each commodity are not maintained. Excise duty collected on cigarettes during the fiscal year ending March 31, 1931, $30,499,222.84.4.	$631,236.90-Import duty, $42,489,989.38. This amount includes the excise tax on cigars
in addition to the excise duty on all tobacco, including cigars.
5.	Canada's domestic exports of tobacco for the year ended March 31, 1931, were:
Classification	Pounds $
Unmanufactured tobacco-
Burley	2,357,496	417,661Bright, flue-cured.. ..	1,515,363	660,544Dark, air and fire cured.	2,021,571	403,831Other unmanufactured tobacco	156,889	23,558Stems .and cuttings (tobacco)	576,200	4,840Manufactured tobacco- Cigars	1,556	3,631Cigarettes	282	387Plug and twist	15,343	8,452Other manufactured tdbacco	247,805	50,201Total tobacco. ..	6,892,505	1,573,1056. Canada's domestic exports of tobacco, by	countries, for the year ended March 31, 1931,	were: Countries	Pounds	$Unmanufactured tobacco to	Belgium	949,829	70,213Canary islands	32,510	1,300China	41,999	4,457Denmark	11,070	941France	110	24Germany	10,203	575Malta	2,418	242Netherlands	133,958	9,371Nigeria	16,435	657St. Pierre & Miquelon.	200	61Switzerland	27,649	1,217United Kingdom. ..	4,820,202	1,415,103United States	4,736	1,433Total exports	6,051,319	1,505,594Stems and cuttings (tobacco) to United Kingdom. ..	20.000	813United States	556,200	4,027Total exports.. ..	576,200	4,840Manufactured tobacco to Australia	28	119Barbados	120	72Belgium.. ,	57	77Bermuda	318	200British South Africa..	17	39Ceylon	7	24China	227,610	33,092
The Budget-Mr. Bennett

Countries	Pounds	$
Manufactured tobacco to		
Denmark	4	9France	4	7Hong Kong	5	9Jamaica	1,041	707Japan	
..	2,525	1,277Newfoundland	26,480	17,506New Zealand	649	905Panama	12	15St. Pierre & Miquelon.	245	263Switzerland	356	488United Kingdom. ..	206	363United States	5,320	7,499Total exports.. ..	264,986	62,671



THE BUDGET


Right Hon. R. B. BENNETT (Minister of Finance) moved:: That Mr. Speaker do now leave the chair for the house to go into committee of ways and means.
He said:	Mr. Speaker, in moving that you
do now leave the chair for the purpose of enabling the house to resolve itself into a committee of ways and means to make good the supply to be granted to His Majesty for the twelve months ending March 31, 1932, I will, follow the traditional practice of making a general survey of the financial and business operations of the Dominion during the last fiscal year. I will also indicate the ways and means which the government proprose to utilize in providing the necessary revenues to meet the appropriations made by Parliament. I shall discuss these matters under five heads:
1.	The financial operations of the Dominion for the fiscal year, April 1, 1930, to March 31, 1931.
2.	The balance sheet of the Dominion on March 31 last showing assets active and nonactive and liablities direct and indirect.
3.	Trade and commerce.
4.	The estimated revenue and expenditures for the twelve months ending March 31, 1932.
5.	The ways and means which will be adopted for the purpose of providing the necessary revenues to meet the proposed expenditures.



FINANCIAL OPERATIONS DURING FISCAL YEAR

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The period of national financing under review is the twelve months from April 1, 1930, to March 31, 1931. This was a period of sluggish commercial activity, with commodity prices steadily declining throughout the world. The consequences are shown in the Dominion's balance sheet, for eighty-three per cent of the consolidated fund receipts in 1930-31 was derived from taxation, the major portion being obtained by ad valorem assessments on the monetary value of business transacted. Therefore, the revenue collections from every tax, with one exception, were substantially less than in the preceding year. The exception was the income tax, where the assessment was on earnings and profits made in the calendar year 1929. To find a parallel to the revenues in the past fiscal year, it is necessary to turn back ten years to the fiscal year 1921-22, and in that year the revenues were $26,000,000 greater than the collections in the past fiscal year.
On the expenditure side, comparatively little advantage could be taken of declining commodity prices. This is due to the fact that fixed and uncontrollable charges constitute so large a proportion of the expenditures. The interest on the national debt was over 121 millions; war pensions amounted to 46 millions, and other uncontrollable expenditures absorbed an additional $36,895,000. To these may be added the cost of civil government and other services where a somewhat lengthy time lag exists before declining commodity prices are reflected in reduced costs. These services involved an expenditure of 78 millions. In other words, 282 millions were expended during the year without the government gaining any offsetting advantages from the causes which brought about such substantial decreases in revenues.
Taxation Revenues
The major source of Canadian revenue is the customs tariff which last year produced 131 millions of dollars. This was 48 millions less than in the preceding year. A study of the imports of Canada during the period indicates that there was a substantial decline in the importations of nearly all commodities. One of the chief sources of customs revenue is the duty collected on alcoholic beverages, and in the year under .review the revenue thus derived was 20 millions, as compared with 25 millions in the preceding year.
Recently our customs receipts have shown less fluctuation and the daily decreases are not

The Budget-Mr. Bennett
so substantial as in the last fiscal year, when the monthly decreases, as compared with the previous year were:
Month	Decrease
April, 1930	$3,591,000
May	 5,300,000
June	 2,884,000
July	 4.356,000
August	 4,919,000
September	 3,115,000
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	$24,165,000
October	 6,408,000
November	 4,117,000
December	 3,424,000
January, 1931	 2.687.000
February	 3,766,000
March period	 3,653,000
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 24,055,000
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The decrease during the first six months of the fiscal year was $24,165,000; during the last six months of the fiscal year it was $24,055,000.
It will be recalled that the tariff changes made at the special session came into effect during September although in certain cases, where uncompleted contracts were outstanding, the new rates were not levied until several weeks later. A comparison of the customs revenue for the two six-months' periods has this significance, that the changes did not make any material reduction in the receipts during the two six-months' periods of the year.
Excise Duties.
The excise duties are largely assessments on alcoholic beverages and tobaccos manufactured in Canada. The total collected during the year was $57,700,000. During the year excise collections on tobacco remained practically stationary at about 42 millions. Of the amount, duties on cigarettes produced $30,500,000. There was a decline of over $7,000,000 in excise duty collections on alcoholic beverages produced in Canada. On and after the 1st of July, 1930, clearances were denied to vessels having on board any intoxicating liquors destined for delivery in any country into which the importation of such liquor was prohibited. The enforcement of this law to a great extent explains the decline in the excise revenues.
Income Tax
The income tax ranks first in productivity amongst the war taxes and produced 71 millions in the year. As a matter of fact, this
sum has been exceeded only once since its imposition and that was in the fiscal year 1921-22. It is a case of history repeating itself. The fiscal year 1922 was also a dark one in respect to total revenues, but income tax assessments were on the earnings and profits of 1920, the peak year of the postwar boom. In the past year total revenues were again reduced, but income tax assessments were levied on the earnings and profits of a peak year, that of the stock market boom. Of the $71,048,000 of income tax collected, $26,600,000 was paid by individuals and $44,400,000 by corporations. In the fiscal year 1921-22, when $78,600,000 was received, individuals paid $39,820,000 and corporations $38,863,000.
Sales Tax
No tax more quickly reflected the declining commodity prices than did the sales tax. The shrinkage in the volume of business transacted, coupled with the decrease in values, made it apparent at the beginning of the calendar year 1930 that with business shrinking and sales contracting, the sales tax could not be depended upon to produce revenue to the same degree as in the previous year. This loss, instead of being compensated by an increase in the rate when the budget was brought down on May 1st, 1930, was aggravated by the rate being reduced from 2 per cent to 1 per cent. The result was a decline of over 24 millions in sales tax revenues during the year under review, the collections being somewhat over 20 millions, as compared with 44 millions in the previous year. It is perhaps desirable to point out that a change has been made in the accounting methods this year in respect of sales tax. Commencing in the fiscal year 1924-25 the payments made in April by licensees on sales made in the old year were credited to the fiscal year then last ended. This practice was not in harmony with that followed in respect of other public revenues and has been discontinued. Had it been followed, the revenues from sales tax credited to 1930-31 would be approximately $1,700,000 greater.
Tax Summary
The other taxes represent small amounts, being, not infrequently, paid by the use of excise stamps, and are difficult to allocate. A statement of the revenue received from taxation for the last five years follows:
22110-136J
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
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Customs.. .		
Excise	
War tax revenue-
Banks	 [DOT] [DOT] *
Trust and loan companies.. ..
Insurance companies	
Business profits	
Income tax	
Sales tax	
Tax on cheques, transportation tax, etc	
Total receipts from taxation.. ..
Public Service Revenues
The sum of $53,000,000 was collected by way of revenues from public services maintained by the government. The main contributor was the Post Office Department. The gross collections for postal services were $37,500,000 and the net revenues $30,200,000. Compared with the previous year, there was a decrease of $3,100,000 in the net revenues. On the expenditure side the postal service costs were $36,300,000, an increase of $1,300,000. Therefore, the fiscal year ended with the Post Office Department showing a [DOT]deficiency of $6,100,000. To achieve an absolute calculation of the department's operations, a substantial sum, representing the [DOT]expenditures of the Public Works Department for equipment, buildings, maintenance, etc., necessary for the handling of mails throughout Canada, would have to be added. On the other hand, the department is en-
1927-28	1928-29	1929-30	1930-31
	(000 omitted)		
$156,986	$187,206	$179,430	$131,20957,401	03,685	65,036	57,7471,225	1,243	1,408	1,429345	8	"74999	895	74	956	455	173	3456,571	59,422	69,021	71,04872,100	63,646	44,859	20,78518,123	19,361	18,550	13,950$364,706	$395,921	$378,551	$296,276
titled to a substantial credit for the handling of government mail.
Interest on investments realized $10,400,000. Of this, $2,000,000 was on sinking funds and $1,299,000 on loans to Roumania and Greece, which were made during the war period. The harbour commissions, other than Quebec, paid $3,492,000 in interest on the $88,600,000 loaned by the dominion to them. The major reduction in revenues under this group heading was in the interest paid by the chartered banks for advances under the Finance Act, although the amount collected was $15,000 in excess of the collections in 1928. In 1929-30 the banks paid $2,234,000, while in 1930-31 the payments were $539,000.
The transfer of the natural resources to the western provinces materially reduced revenue from dominion land, there being a decrease from $4,139,000 to $1,655,000 in the year under review.
A division of the 43 millions of revenues from the public services, by sources, is:-
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Revenue
[DOT] 	1926-27	1927-28	1928-29	1929-30	Estimated 1930-31Non-Tax Revenue-	*	$	$	$	$Canada Grain Act	2,582,984	2,677,877	2,992,540	2,047,207	2,179,047Canada Gazette	68,312	81,243	80,214	93,890	71,197Canals	961,694	1,355,677	1,230,333	1,043,647	1,026,671Casual	3,310,633	3,626,236	4,041,095	4,300,710	3,685,000Chinese Revenue	13,228	14,179	18,224	14,345	21,996Dominion Lands	3,327,273	3,688,595	4,070,339	4,139,104	1,655,401Electric Light Inspection	538,917	563,913	563,964	546,957	632,151Finos and Forfeitures	504,310	568,140	655,485	748,343	433,712Fisheries	175,213	119,144	109,300	110,724	73,937^ Gas Inspection	76,880	85,716	92,398	100,763	94,255Insurance Inspection	120,334	123,768	131,626	138,780	148,942Interest on Investments	8,559,401	10,937,822	12,227,562	13,518,205	10,421,225Marine	264,083	191,564	182,810	184,637	186,892Mariners' Fund	195,080	222,048	236,808	209,322	201,768Military College	18,239	20,232	20,204	19,820	19,882Military Pension Revenue	128,387	128,017	155,830	158,881	158,872Ordnance Lands	29,703	14,206	24,830	30,277	29,384Patent and Copyright Fees	517,930	495,792	530,239	574,918	559,646Penitentiaries	170,338	177,933	178,449	181,024	183,288* Post Office	29,069,169	31,562,580	30,611,964	33,345,385	30,212,326Premium, Discount and Exchange	649,337	594,211	568,846	531,366	521,078Public Works	422,864	395,281	414,085	408,151	374,500Royal Can. M.P. Officers' Pension	8,769 392	6,144 172	6,373 81	6,471 5	6,357Weights and Measures	333,034	361,690	399,247	407,248	419,750Total Non-Tax Revenue	52,046 504	58,012,180	59,542,8461 62,860,180	53,317,277
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The Budget-Mr. Bennett
The consolidated fund receipts may now be summarized. In the fiscal year just ended these amounted to $349,593,000, as compared with $441,411,000 in 1929-30. In other words, there was a decrease of $91,818,000.
Special Receipts
During the year certain special receipts came into the treasury which must be added before the total revenues for the year are given. The most important of these were the payments received on reparations, amounting to $6,500,000. This was a larger sum than had been received in the preceding year, due ro the success of the German international 5J per cent loan 1930 making it possible for
Receipts from taxation	 $346,649
Non-tax revenue	 52,046
Consolidated fund receipts.. ..	398,695
Special receipts	 1,934
Grand total revenues	 $400,629
the creditor countries to receive a cash payment on future reparations account. Canada's share thus acquired was $2,173,000. The acceptance of the plan involved the establishment by Canada of a small credit, amounting to $272,000, in the Bank of International Settlements. This has been done. The amount received on ordinary reparation account was $4,395,000.
Adding these special receipts to the corn solidated fund, revenues for the year make a grand total of $356,215,000, as compared with $446,182,000 in the preceding year, a decrease of $90,000,000. A comparison of revenues for the past five fiscal years is:
1927-28	1928-29 (000 omitted)	1929-30	1930-31$364,706	$395,921	$378,551	$296,27658,012	59,543	62,860	53,317422,718	455,464	441,411	349,5937,129	5,476	4,771	6,622$429,847	$460,940	$446,182	$356,215

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The past fiscal year was marked by substantial increases in the expenditures for the public service. Some of these increases were to provide for new services or undertakings, others were a consequence of statutory enactments causing greater demands to be made upon the treasury. Apart from certain expenditures in connection with unemployment relief, those incurred on authority of governor general's warrants and some items approved by parliament on the closing days of the fiscal year, all expenditures were incurred on the authority of the previous administration.
Ordinary Expenditures
Ordinary expenditures for the year were $394,000,000, as compared with $357,780,000 in the fiscal year 1929-30. This was an increase of $36,220,000, the more important items which show increases being:
Subsidies to provinces	$4,900,000
Department of Indian Affairs.. ..	700,000
Old age pension	 4,100,000
Lighthouse and coastal services.. ..	500,000
Air services	 1,225,000
War pensions	 5,550,000
Treatment and after-care of veterans. 1,280,000
Post Office	 1,265,000
Public Works	 5,640,000
Maritime Freight Rates Act	 2,925,000
Department of Trade and Commerce. 1,690,000 Unemployment relief	 4,432,000
There was an increase in the subsidy paid to Manitoba of $4,970,027.62, as provided by legislation in connection with the transfer of natural resources to the province. The
transfer of the natural resources made no change in the annual subsidy payments to the provinces of Alberta and Saskatchewan, although the dates of payments have been changed from March 1 and September 1 to January 1 and July 1.
The increase of expenditures, amounting to $700,000, in connection with the Department of Indian Affairs, falls under two heads. During the year $2,750,000 was spent in the construction of schools, which is $424,000 more than in the preceding year. For the relief of destitute Indians, the providing of hospitals and medical services, an additional $220,000 was expended.
The major increase in expenditures on account of old age pensions was due to larger payments being made in the province of Ontario. The act, during the fiscal year, applied to five provinces, and, in addition, small expenditures were made in the North West Territories. A statement of the expenditures, by provinces, is:
1929-30	1930-31
Ontario	$ 355,829
Manitoba	 427,143
Saskatchewan	 333,287
Alberta	 62,555
British Columbia		357,801
North West Territories	558
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$1,537,173	$5,658,142
The increase of slightly over $500,000 in the lighthouse and coast services was mainly due to the purchase of a lighthouse boat to be used in connection with the St. Lawrence
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
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river channel. The expenditures on that account, together with the purchase and erection of new lights, amounted to $480,000.
The increase of over $1,200,000 in air services falls under three headings. In connection with air services generally there was an increase of $394,000: for civil air services $387,000, and for air mail routes $494,000. The sum of $180,000 was expended in connection with the airport at Trenton, Ontario, and the establishment of new air mail routes made it necessary to establish and maintain new landing fields at various points throughout Canada. Other expenditures, due to increased use being made of the services of the air division, involved greater expenditures for supplies and equipment and also made it necessary to increase the personnel.
There is a unanimous sentiment that Canada shall provide adequately for those who served and suffered during the war, and annually the amount expended on account of pensions and after-care of veterans increases. In the year under review pension payments increased $5,558,000, and after-care accounts by $1,280,000, thus making a total expenditure on these two accounts of over 55 millions in the year under review. Since the outbreak of hostilities the dominion has paid $460,000,000 on account of European war pensions, and 182 millions for treatment and after-care of returned soldiers. In addition, sundry expenditures on account of soldier land settlement adminstration, battlefield memorials, the Imperial War Graves Commission, etc., amount to $29,000,000. These items of expenditure reached a grand total of $671,000,000 to the close of the fiscal year.
The increase of expenditures amounting to $1,265,000 on post office account may be divided into three groups. Approximately $322,000 was expended in settling overdue accounts with the printing bureau. These overdue accounts had accumulated over a series of years, and at the close of the fiscal year a supplementary estimate was authorized by parliament to bring the accounts into balance. An increase of $570,000 in expenditures was due to the extension of air mail services, and $375,000 was spent in salary increases, mainly to those in the outside service.
The expenditures on ordinary account by the Public Works department were $5,600,000 in excess of the expenditures in the previous year. Of this, the additional expenditures in connection with the erection and improvement of public buildings amounted to $3,425,-
000.	On harbour and river works expenditures showed an increase of $2,100,000 as compared with the previous year.

The expenditures in respect to the Maritime Freight Rates Act in 1929-30 were $7,400,000, and in the year under review they were $10,327,000. The increase divides itself under two heads: $627,000 was an account carried forward from the previous fiscal year, having been received too late to be included in the accounts for that year, and the balance, $2,300,000, represented the additional amount payable as provided by the act for reductions in tolls and deficits on eastern lines.
The expenditures in respect to penitentiaries increased by $676,000. During the year the penitentiary population increased 527, thereby requiring larger staffs and supplies. Of the increase, $125,000 represents expenditures in connection with the erection of a new institution which was established during the year.
The Department of Trade and Commerce administers the Canada Grain Act, and during the year there was an increase of $1,085,000 in its expenditures over those of the previous year in connection with the providing of elevators at Lethbridge, Moose Jaw and Saskatoon. An additional $100,000 was spent on national research and $126,000 in connection with the Canadian display at the exhibition at Buenos Aires.
The special session of September last provided for the expenditure of $20,000,000 to relieve unemployment. As a result, at the close of the fiscal year, the contracts initiated in consequence of this legislation amounted to $69,690,948, and at the end of March,
248,000	persons were employed. However, at the close of the fiscal year only a small portion of the total expenditures authorized had been presented for payment. In all, $4,431,000 was actually paid, the money being disbursed as follows:
Alberta	1
British Columbia.. ..
Manitoba	
New Brunswick	
Nova Scotia	
Ontario	
Prince Edward Island.
Quebec	
Saskatchewan	
Yukon	
186,600 17 259,040 82 305,638 53 250,233 67 62,066 05 1,219.433 18 21,529 88 319,452 87 535,698 95 20,000 00
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Canadian National Ry. Canadian Pacific Ry. . Grade Crossing Fund. Paries Branch, Interior
Administration	
352,961 82 345.420 00 500,000 00 36,996 81
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 1,235,378 63
16,582 32
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May I add the records show that at the end of April employment had been given to
25,000	additional persons as compared with those employed on March 31.

The Budget-Mr. Bennett
A statement of the expenditures, by services, on ordinary account for the last five fiscal years now follows:
Expenditures
					Estimated
Items	1926-27	1927-28	1928-29	1929-30	1930-31Consolidated Fund Expenditure-	9	$	$	$	$Finance-	129,675,367 12,516,740 963,252 24,013	128,902,945 12,516,740 884,532	124,989,950 12,553,725 923,363 67,254	121,566,213 12,496,959 1,015,766 72,976	121,289,844 17,435,736 920,136 19,477
Premium, Discount and Exchange			42,233			
Superannuation No. 1 (Act of 1870)...	677,692	625,005	577,661	531,253	492,101Superannuation No. 3 fPrintingBureau)	20,789	19,038	17,792	15,930	14,413Superannuation No. 4 (Act of 1920)... Superannuation No. 6 (Widows' Annu-	770,121	723,825	671,611	631,293	592,846130,946 11,576,140 6,487,766 1,751,147 2,704,698 4,199,541	140,570 11,819,981 7,201,566 1,974,118 2,631,967 4,598,292	142,708 12,258,009 9,286,746 2,274,294 2,757,331 5,134,553	140,167 12,628,562 9,143,977 2,261,817 2,255,249 5,866,21910,865,757 5,838,941 1,437,179 2,338,992 3,869,394	
Interior-					
	4,251,663 717,000 233,541	4,082,752 733,919 249,642	4,986,962 793,594 317,725	5,479,835 816,515 434,789	4,967,569 817,052 545,605
					
Government of N.W. Territories						
Government of Yukon Territory	
Justice-	189,120	178,511	184,181	186,374	201,4512,201,141 1,685,556	2,190,810 1,755,763	2,203,209 1,807,655	2,198,909 2,561,115	2,214,268 3,236,816
Labour-					
	1,047,536	965,955 131,452 313,620	1,152,165 832,687 364,819	413,287 1,537,173 415,939	391,397 5,658,143 509,980
					
	404,879				
Legislation-					
Senate, House of Commons, etc		2,699,262 1,844,536	1,995,707 45,485	2,264,008 62,454	2,292,633 26,292	2,427,781 2,234,767
Marine-					
	2,566,730 2,463,558 243,233 121,961 558,695	3,749,105 2,771,031 270,276 131,065 624,184	3,683,256 2,812,900 287,908	5,136,332 2,874,623 316,706 140,253 805,748	3,638,911 3,391,875 367,620 143,763 789,327
					
					
			141,485 679,179		
					
National Defence-					
	9,141,220	10,151,975 1,702,225 3,891,861 116,199 142,736	11,044,334 1,836,488 5,040,505 102,735 138,715	11,032,749 3,013,396 5,920,670 226,952	10,979,659 3,597,591 7,151,163 103,562 217,521
	1,597,407 2,197,645 149.779 137.779				
					
					
Government of N.W. Territories					140,161 13,130,611 40,406,565	
	10,130,430 37,902,939	11,801,331 39,778,130	12,876,760 41,487,323		13,206,442 45,964,868
					
Pensions and National Health-					
Treatment and after care of returned					
	6,976,762 695,219 31,007,698	6,958,811 771,435 31,782,968	7,901,957 924,003 33,483,059	8,494,277 1,021,371 35,036,629	9,775,228 943,384 36,292,604
					
					
Public Works-					
	11,178,054 918,580	14,037,366 942,544	17,003,254 939,985	18,134,359 924,110	23,763,284 936,020
Charges to Collection of Revenue	 Railways and Canals-					
					
		3,471,401 2,366,744 2,535,361	7,177,538 1,120,376 2,405,272	7,401,034 1,279,867 2,459,990	10,327,457 1,199,560 2,911,228
	1,581,688 2,152,015				
Charges to Collection of Revenue	 R. C. M. Police						
	2,097,887	2,300,439	2,600,525	2,901,817	2,957,087
Soldier and General Land Settlement					
	1,250,787	1,334,008	1,441,951	1,362,122	1,300,148
Trade and Commerce-					
Canada Grain Act, Exhibitions, etc.	4,168,047 164,791	4,015,985 82,807	4,476,131 79,290	4,894,120 40,030	6,585,958 92,181
Mail Subsidies and Steamship Sub-					
	1,008,999 4,863,799	844,591 6,385,211	1,026,375 7,104,311	1,083,437 5,054,973	1,314,169 5,344,739 4,431,655
Other Expenditures						
Unemployment Relief						
					
Total Ordinary Expenditure		319,548,173	336,167,961	350,952,924	357,779,794	393,992,377
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
[Stage Direction]
Expenditures on Capital Account
Parliament, for the fiscal year 1930-31, appropriated the sum of $33,484,000 for capital expenditures. In the year $28,222,000 was actually expended on that account. These expenditures, for the purpose of convenience, may be classified under the following heads: (1) Railways, (2) Canals, (3) Public Works, and (4) Marine.
Taking first the railways:	On this account
over $6,000,000 was disbursed, and of this amount $2,500,000 was spent on the Prince Edward Island ferry and terminals, and $4,137,000 on the Hudson Bay railway and terminals. The investment in the Hudson Bay railway and terminals at the end of the fiscal year amounted to $43,880,000.
The expenditures on canals amounted to $9,800,000, of which expenditures on the Welland ship canal represented $9,600,000.
The expenditures in connection with Public Works capital account were largely those
Canals	  $13,846
Railways	 2,792
Public Works	 2,921
Total	 $19,559
in connection with shipping, although at Ottawa $2,500,000 was spent on the new Confederation building and the National Research Council laboratories. The expenditure in connection with the Burlington channel, lake Ontario, amounted to $1,151,000, while over $3,000,000 was disbursed in connection with the lower lake terminals at Prescott. Expenditures of approximately $400,000 in each case were also made in connection with harbour improvements at the head of the great lakes and at Sorel.
In connection with the capital expenditures of the Marine department, it may be said1 that practically all were in connection with the St. Lawrence ship channel, for $3,464,000 was spent on dredging the channel, etc,, and $400,000 in the construction of regulating and retaining dams in the St. Lawrence river below Montreal.
A summary of the capital expenditures for
the past	five fiscal years	is:	1927-28	1928-29	1929-30	1930-31(000 omitted)	$13,763	$13,164	$ 9,324	$ 9,8463,592	6,302	6,663	6,3673,281	3,343	6,574	12,009$20,636	$22,809	$22,561	$28,222
Special Expenditures
The special expenditures amounted to $12,358,000. The most important item was $8,599,000 which represents 30 per cent reduction in soldiers' indebtedness to the Soldier Settlement Board as authorized by chapter 42, Acts 1930: $2,067,000 represents the government's contribution to the civil service superannuation fund:	$639,000 was spent on
Adjustment of war claims....	$ 242
Cost of loan flotations	 3,278
Miscellaneous charges	 4,537
Reparations, claims for compensation	
Total	 $8,057
account of railway grade crossings, and $105,000 was the amortized discount on the loan flotation made in New York in October last. The other important item was the payment of $500,000 for civilian war claims-in the previous fiscal year $6,700,000 was disbursed on this account.
A summary of these expenditures compared with previous years is:
1927-28	1928-29 (000 omitted)	1929-30	1930-31$1,861	$ 120	$ 95	$ 11113	11	17	1931,692	2,056	3,027	11,5546,700	500$3,566	$2,187	$9,839	$12,358
Loans and Advances Non-active
The final group of expenditures are those which are treated as loans and advances, but, being non-interest producing, are treated as non-active, charged as expenditures of the year, and not treated as assets in establishing the net debt of the dominion. In the (Mr. Bennett.]
year under review the amount advanced was $5,500,000. Of this $3,491,000 consisted of loans to the Quebec harbour commissioners, and $1,826,000 to the Canadian Government Merchant Marine and the Canadian National (West Indies) Steamships, this being the amount required to meet their deficits.

The Budget-Mr. Bennett
A comparison of the loans and advances non-active for the past five years is:
Loans to Canadian National
Railways	 $10,000
Loans to Canadian National
Steamships	 427
Loans to Quebec Harbour Commissioners	 680
Miscellaneous non-active	accounts	26
Accounts carried as active assets
transferred	to	non-active..	.	436
Total	 $11,569
1927-28	1928-29	1929-30	1930-31
	(000 omitted)	$2,933	
$ 1,000	$ 758	2,491	$1,8271,458	2,888	2,821 17	3,491 17016,035	10,000	$18,493	$13,646	$8,262	$5,488
Summary
Grouping the 1930-31 expenditures together, it will be observed that total expenditures amounted to $440,060,667, as compared with $398,442,247 in the previous year. With respect to these expenditures, it may be said that for none of them is the present government responsible, with the exception of $4,431,000 for unemployment relief, $681,000 under governor general's warrants (mainly for ex-soldiers' relief), $2,000,000 for the Welland ship canal, $288,000 for Port Arthur and Fort William, harbour improvements, and a number of smaller items included in the supplementary estimates brought down at the end of March, these amounting to less than $100,000.
It will be noted that ordinary revenues were $44,398,879 less than ordinary expenditures, and that total revenues were $83,844,358 less than total expenditures. It should perhaps be noted that $8,599,385 of this deficit is brought about by the writing down of soldier land settlement loans advanced in previous years, so the balance, namely $75,244,973, is really the amount of the deficiency for the fiscal year period. Minor adjustments have yet to be made before the accounts are officially closed, but the foregoing is anticipated to be within a few thousands of the final balances for the fiscal year 1930-31.

[Stage Direction]
The fiscal year under review was marked by a change in circumstances in respect of the national debt. For several years there had been a surplus of revenues over expenditures which could be applied to maturing obligations. Such was not the case in the past year.
In January, 1929, the Canadian National Railways were in need of money for capital requirements and, as will be recalled, interest charges were then at abnormal heights. The government, therefore, between that date and May, 1930, advanced to the railways $33,000,-
000, taking demand notes as security. In June, 1930, the Canadian National Railways carried out a borrowing operation and repaid the dominion $11,839,458, leaving a balance of $21,160,542 payable to the dominion. On July 1st, with $5,000,000 thus received, the government repurchased $5,000,000 at par of the 4 per cent treasury notes which were to mature on December 1st, 1930. This transaction represented a net saving of $83,000 in interest.
Last autumn, the New York money market for railway securities was unreceptive, but, with the company reporting deficits each month and with large capital undertakings of the railway proceeding, provision had to be made for the company's financial requirements. The dominion decided it was in the public interest to continue the providing of funds for the Canadian National and in October sold to a syndicate, headed by the Chase Securities Corporation and the Banc-america-Blair Corporation of New York, an issue of $100,000,000, 4 per cent, thirty year bonds, but callable at the end of twenty years. The amount realized was $93,646,000, or a cost of approximately 4-38 per cent. This rate is the best which has been secured by the dominion for any long-term financing since the outbreak of the war.
The sum of $10,000,000 was immediately advanced to the railways and before the end of December a further $15,500,000 was loaned to the company.
Due to the fact that the requirements of the railways had made it necessary for the government to make a large public offering earlier than had been planned, the dominion did not require to refinance immediately all of the $45,000,000 of three-year treasury notes which matured on the 1st of December. It was found practicable to retire, permanently, the $5,000,000 which had been purchased on the previous first of July, and a new loan was arranged with a group of Canadian banks. An issue of four per cent two-
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
[Stage Direction]
year treasury notes for $40,000,000 was authorized; $13,300,000 was sold on December 1st, $10,000,000 on January 1st, and the balance, $16,700,000, on February 15th.
The transfer of the natural resources to the three prairie provinces during the past fiscal year vested the responsibility for the administration of the school land funds in the three ' provincial governments. The Dominion Lands Act provides that sections eleven and twenty-nine in every surveyed township in Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta, shall be set aside as an endowment for purposes of education in those provinces. The act also provides that all moneys, from time to time, realized from the sale of such school lands shall be invested in securities of Canada and the interest arising therefrom, after deducting costs of management, shall be paid to the provinces towards the support of schools organized and carried on in accordance with the laws of such province.
The agreements with the provinces, as ratified at the last general session of parliament, provided that the transfer of these moneys might be either by cash of securities. The amount involved was over $33,000,000.
Until 1917, the fund moneys were carried in the cash working accounts of the dominion and 3 per cent interest was paid. The war had greatly altered money values, and the provinces submitted a request for a higher rate of interest. This was granted by the government of the day, on the authority of an order in council dated June 7th directing that the moneys, then in the fund, be invested in 5 per cent debenture issue which had been created in 1916 and which would mature on the 1st of October, 1919.
In 1919 the government, by order in council dated March 12, directed that the moneys which had accumulated in the interval be invested in the 1916-1919 debenture issue. On December 1, 1919, an executive direction was given that the moneys of the fund be invested in debenture stock to mature on October 1, 1922. The rate was again 5 per cent.
On September 25, 1922, an order in council was passed which, after reciting the December 1, 1919, order in council, continued:
In view of the approaching maturity of the said debenture stock, tile minister recommends that authority be given to continue the payment of interest at the rate of five per cent per annum on school land funds held from time to time by the Minister of Finance in trust for the provinces of Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta.
No further action was taken and the records do not disclose the reason. Whatever may have been the cause, the fact is that

when the present administration took office the fund was in the same state as in 1922. The amount was entered annually in the public accounts as a liability of the dominion; five per cent interest was being paid and there was no dispute as to the amount which was to be paid, but there were no certificates which could be transferred to the provinces.
The provinces were consulted to ascertain whether they desired settlement in cash, or the transfer of the fund by securities of Canada. It was agreed that, until an arrangement could be made, the dominion would continue to pay interest at the rate of 5 per cent. Early in April last, representatives of the provinces met with the dominion and it was arranged that a new debenture issue would be created for the amount of the capital account of the fund on the dates of the transfer of the resources to each of the provinces. This has been done, and the provinces receive certificates for the following amounts:
Manitoba	$ 5.919,862 65
Saskatchewan	 17,809,039 00
Alberta	 9,564,569 20
[Stage Direction]
The maturity date is July 1, 1934, and the interest is at the rate of 5 per cent, payable half-yearly on the first of July and January.

[Stage Direction]
While the actual settling of the $25,000,000 loan which had been obtained in New York in 1916 took place on the first day of the present fiscal year, might it be pointed out that the financial operation of last fall provided the money for that purpose. The loan was a five per cent issue, while the cost of the re-financing was at the rate of 4-38 per cent. This means a saving in the annual interest charges of $155,000.
1931 CONVERSION LOAN
The only funded debt to be refinanced in the present fiscal year is the $52,929,600 falling due on October 1, and the success of the conversion loan recently completed leaves less than 15 millions to be refinanced. At the present moment it would appear that this can most profitably be done by the use of treasury bills.
The debt conversion operation, which commenced on May 11 last, does not properly belong to a review of the financial operations of the last fiscal year, but it is a matter of general interest at the present time. The basis was: in exchange for bonds maturing in 1931, 1932, 1933 and 1934, new securities

The Budget-Mr. Bennett
were given, bearing interest at the rate of 4} per cent per annum, and maturing twenty-five years after the due date of the bonds surrendered for conversion, the dominion having the right to redeem after fifteen years. The holder was, naturally, guaranteed all the benefits, including difference in interest rate, associated with his old bond to the date of its maturity. The first offer to the public was for $250,000,000. The success of the operation was assured at the close of business on the first day, and it became necessary to increase the amount the government was prepared to accept for conversion. The subscription books remained open until the advertised closing date, Saturday, May 23. It was a remarkable success, it . being estimated approximately 640 millions were converted. Until all adjustments are madle and the overseas subscriptions actually delivered to the department, a final statement cannot be presented, but at the moment the report is:
Amount
Total Surrendered Year of	Amount	for
Maturity	of Loan Conversion
1931	$	52,929,600	$ 38,762,5001932	
73,323,150	37.011,4001933	
446.659,950	272,989,1001934	
511,910,650	278,703,500t	$1,084,823,350	$627,466,500
Not yet distributed as
to maturity.	12,350,000
[Stage Direction]
The dominion sponsored the conversion operation and paid a commission of one-half of one per cent, except on conversions of bonds maturing on October 1st, 1931. No commission was paid to any one for the $38,000,000 of bonds of this issue which were surrendered for conversion.

[Stage Direction]
The financial provision which it was necessary to make in the fiscal year for the Canadian National Railways and Steamships, and the various harbour commissions, reached important dimensions. So far as capital expenditures are concerned, they represent the carrying out of the extensive programs of construction approved by parliament in previous sessions, and where payments have
been required for operating deficits, the amounts naturally reflect the unfavourable situation.
Canadian National Railways
The accounts of the Canadian National Railways for 1930 have been presented to the house. The company failed to earn its fixed charges to the public by $29,219,738. This figure is exclusive of the operations of the eastern lines of the accruing interest on the cash advances of $604,000,000 which the government has made to the company in previous years.
The deficit on the system, exclusive of eastern lines, was financed by the company and is not reflected in the government accounts for this year.
The general budget of the railways for 1930, which included provision for deficit, general additions and betterments and miscellaneous debt retirements, amounted to $63,010,400.85, of which $51,600,000 was authorized at the 1930 session and the balance, $11,410,400.85 was passed at the present session as a supplementary provision to cover over-expenditure due to the unanticipated falling-off in receipts. In respect of these requirements, guaranteed bonds to the amount of $51,600000 were issued and the sum of $11,410,000.85 has been financed temporarily by a bank loan.
The expenditures just referred to do not include those incurred on branch lines and terminals authorized by special statutes. For these purposes the actual expenditures in 1930 amounted to $21,112,073, financed from the proceeds of guaranteed bonds. The total amount of bonds issued in the past fiscal year for these purposes was $32,577,779, a substantial amount having been provided for expenditures on these accounts in 1931.
For the purposes mentioned above and to refund certain maturing and temporary loans, the company issued $120,000,000 of securities in the period of our fiscal year to which the guarantee of the government, in accordance with the authorization of parliament, was given. An issue of $50,000,000 4J per cent 25-year bonds was sold in June, 1930, and an issue of $70,000,000 4J per cent 25-year bonds was sold in February, 1931.
The following statement summarizes the purposes for which these issues were made and the total amount of securities issued in each case:
[Stage Direction]
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
Canadian National Railway Company Guaranteed Bond Issues, 1930-31
Authority
Railway loan appropriation, 1930 budget.. ..
Special Projects-
Branch lines construction:
Special acts, 1927-30 program	
$	226,166 83Special acts, 1929-32 program	
13,524,749	04Toronto Terminals Railway Act	
3,650,000	00Can. National Montreal Terminals Act..	..	12,300,000	00Northern Alberta Railways Act	
1,589,904	62St. John & Quebec railway acquisition..	..	1,286,959	00
Refunding-
Temporary loan, railway loan appropriation,
1929 budget	 $ 7,171,181 67
Can. National (Central Vermont) Financing
Act, 1930	
8,609,000	00Can. National Refunding Act, 1930	
20,042,038	84
Securities Issued $ 51,600,000 00
32,577,779 49
35,822,220 51 $120,000,000 00
As in former years the company financed the purchase of new equipment to the extent of seventy-five per cent of the cost thereof, by the sale of equipment trust certificates not guaranteed by the Dominion government. An issue, authorized in June, 1930, of $15,750,000 4-i per cent certificates was made for this purpose.
Canadian National Steamships.
The operating loss on the Canadian Government Merchant Marine, Ltd., 1930, involved a cash payment by the government of $834,210.89. We were also called upon to advance $992,730.62 to the Canadian National (West Indies) Steamships, Ltd., this amount being the cash deficit resulting from the 1930 operations of the company after absorbing the contributions made by the colonies under the West Indies trade agreement towards the cost of the service. The sum advanced does not, however, represent the whole cost of this service which, including depreciation, amounted to $1,362,655 in 1930. The operation of these two organizations in 1930 resulted in a charge of $1,828,941.51 on the government accounts for the year.
Harbour Commissions.
Advances to harbour commissions on capital account for the development of port and terminal facilities, totalled $15,606,600. The following statement shows the amount advanced in 1930-31 to each of the commissions:
Advances, 1930-31
Chicoutimi	$ 846,000 00
Halifax	
3,539,000	00Montreal	
2,291,000	00Quebec	
3,491,000	00St. John	
1,094,000	00Three Rivers	
1,543,000	00Vancouver	
2,802,000	00
[Stage Direction]
In July, 1930, the sale was made of a further $500,000 5 per cent guaranteed bonds of the harbour commissioners of Montreal for purposes of the Montreal harbour bridge, bringing the outstanding debt for this project to $19,000,000. The revenues of the bridge in 1930 were not adequate to meet the interest charges and, consequently, on November 1, 1930, the government was called upon to implement its guarantee to the extent of providing $170,000.

[Stage Direction]
During the year, the government advanced $2,600,000 to the Canadian Farm Loan Board, being the balance of the $5,000,000 initial capital which the act provided that the government should supply for the operations of the board. Subscriptions to capital stock of the board under the terms of the scheme, involved a further payment of $199,839. Apart from the initial capital subscribed by the dominion government and capital stock subscriptions made by the dominion and provincial governments and the borrowers, respectively, the board is to be financed by the issue of farm loan bonds to be sold either to
[Stage Direction]
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
the public or to the Minister of Finance. In view of the difficulties at the moment of securing a favourable market reception for farm loan securities, the government has undertaken to purchase on a 5 per cent basis farm loan bonds to finance the 1931 operations of the board. The amount of bonds purchased
Receipts-*
Cash balances in banks, March 31, 1930.. ..
Loans and advances repaid:
Canadian National Railways temporaryloan	
Provincial Housing Loans	
Government of Greece	
Soldier Settlement Loans	
Loan Accounts Receipts:
4 per cent 1930-60 New York Loan proceeds	
School Lands debenture Stock	
Annuities, Insurance and Superannuation Funds-net accretion	
Miscellaneous Accounts	
Revenues for year 1930-31	
Payments-
Reduction in Liabilities:
Post Office Savings Bank withdrawals. . .. Post Office Money Orders, etc., redeemed.. 4 per cent Treasury Notes redeemed.. .. Bonds and Stocks acquired for sinking
funds	
Overdue bonds and stocks redeemed.. .. Overdue coupons redeemed	
Payments on Active Asset Accounts:
Bonds acquired and held	
Loans to Harbouir Commissioners	
Loans to Canadian Farm Loan Board. . .. Bullion and Specie, increase in surplus held. Ottawa Mint Bullion advance account. . ..
Expenditures 1930-31, exclusive of $8,599,385 Soldier Settlement Loans written off.. .. Cash balances in banks, March 31, 1931.. ..
prior to the end of the fiscal year was $300,000, bringing the total capital furnished by the government to the board in the year, to $3,099,839.
The transactions involved in the year's operations are now summarized in the condensed cash statement which follows:
[Stage Direction]
225.000	00 285,904 06
[Stage Direction]

 22,210,960 84
93,646.000	00
509,000	00
[Stage Direction]
 94,155,000 00
9,835,077 39 533,639 93 356,216,299 00
[Stage Direction]
23,288,227 96
431,461,272 00 44,597,909 41

[Stage Direction]
The assets and liabilities . of the Dominion are set out in the balance sheet published in the public accounts: active assets comprising cash balances and specie accounts; loans and advances that are realizable or income-producing, and other miscellaneous accounts. These assets are taken as an offset against the gross liabilities of the dominion in arriving at the net debt. The balance sheet also
sets out non-active assets that are not considered as an offset against the gross liabilities, as they represent loans and advances that are neither realizable nor income-producing and the large capital expenditures made on government-owned properties. Taking first the active assets, the statement is, and I think the house will be somewhat interested in this statement of our assets that are regarded as having value:
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
[Stage Direction]
Active Assets on March 31, 1931
Cash balances in banks	
Specie Reserve	
Advances to Banks under Finance Act
Loans to Provinces for Housing.. ..
Loans to Foreign Governments:
Greece	
Roumania	
Loans to Harbour Commissioners:
Chicoutimi	
Halifax	
Montreal	
St. John	
Vancouver	
Three Rivers	
Canadian Farm Loan Board	
Soldier and General Land Settlement.
Seed Grain and Relief Advances.. ..
		$44,597,909	41
$ 81,457,889	05		
6,500,000	00		
		87,957,889	05
		10,671,687	72
6,640.000	00		
23.969,720	00		
		30,609,720	00
2,161,000	00		
4,841,000	00		
55,977,000	00		
3,407.000	00		
20,607,900	00		
1,679,600	00		
		88,673,500	00
		5,608,862	00
		48.150,885	44
		2,426,508	29
For seed grain and relief advances this amount only is being carried as an active asset.
Advances for working capital and Miscellaneous-
Advances to Royal Mint	 $ 4,221,401 34
Canadian Government Railways, Open and
Stores Accounts	 15,748,921 60
Miscellaneous Advances, etc	 4,265,215 87
Unamortized discount on 4 per cent loan,	6,248,100 00
1930/60
[Stage Direction]
I shall now make, as I think it is desirable, a short statement with respect to each of these items in the statement of active assets that I have just placed on Hansard.
Gash balance in banks.
Cash balance in banks, $44,500,000 is the amount of cash at the credit of the Receiver General in the several banks at the close of the fiscal year. Of the amount $25,000,000 was paid out on April 1, 1931, to retire the 5 per cent Public Service Loan which matured in New York on that date.
Specie Reserve.
Specie Reserve is the gold held by the Department of Finance as security for Dominion Notes in circulation and Post Office Savings Bank deposits. At the end of the year there was $81,000,000, an increase of $15,000,000 for the year.
Advances to banks under the Finance Act.
Advances to banks under the Finance Act-, amounting to $6,500,000, are made by issue of Dominion Notes against approved securities deposited by the banks with the department as collateral.

Loans to Provinces for erection of houses.
Under authority of appropriations granted in 1919 and 1920 advances were made to the provincial governments to encourage the erection of dwelling houses throughout Canada. The loans were repayable within twenty years and carried interest at the rate of five per cent per annum. Advances to the amount of $23,500,000 were made. Repayments received have reduced this to $10,600,000 on March 31, 1931, made up as follows:
British Columbia	$ 1,701,500
Manitoba	 1,475,000
New Brunswick	 1,057,000
Nova Scotia	 1,017,000
Ontario	
Prince Edward Island	 36,500
Quebec	 5,384,688
[Stage Direction]
Loans to Foreign Governments.
Following the termination of the Great war, the Dominion government made available to certain foreign governments credits for the purchase of Canadian products. A number of the countries that took advantage of these
JUNE i, 1931
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
credits have already repaid the amounts advanced. There is still $6,600,000 owing by the government of Greece, and $23,900,000 by the government of Roumania. Arrangements were made with the government of Greece in 1924 which provided for semiannual payments on account of principal so that the debt will be retired by 1.948. Interest at 5 per cent and redemption payments have been made when due..
The Roumanian debt was funded in 1922 on a 4 per cent basis, and since then interest has been paid regularly. These bonds mature on April 1, 1968, and a provision is made for a sinking fund to redeem them on or before the due date.
Loans to Harbour Commissioners.
Prior to 1921 the policy had been to provide for necessary harbour improvements by direct government expenditures, except at the ports of Montreal and Quebec to which the funds required were loaned by the government. In 1921 the harbour commission of Vancouver was added to those receiving aid by way of loans. Harbour commissions at Chicoutimi, Halifax, St. John and Three Rivers have since been added to the list. The amount which had been so loaned is carried as an active asset, and reached the figure of $88,600,000 on March 3)1, 1931. This is exclusive of advance to the Quebec Harbour Commission which is carried as a non-active asset.
Canadian Farm Loan Board.
The financial requirements of the Canadian Farm Loan Board have been met from the federal treasury and the board has, so far. received $5,600,000. This is made up of $5,050,000 of initial capital and advances; $250,000 in subscriptions to capital stock, and $300,000 in purchase of farm loan bonds.
Soldier and general land Settlement.
The Soldier Land Settlement Act of 1919 provided for the granting of financial assistance by way of loans to returned soldiers who were desirous of settling on the land. Up
to the 31st of March, 1031, loans to the amount of $116,500,000 were granted, against which $32,800,000 has been realized. As the major portion of the advances was made at a period of inflated values it became necessary to afford measures of relief. Accordingly in 1925, 1927 and 1930 the Soldier Land Settlement Act was amended to provide for reduction in the amounts of loans outstanding to settlers. As a result of these amendments $18,900,000 has been written off to Consolidated Fund.
Substantial losses have been experienced in resale of farms, stock and equipment that reverted to the board. To provide for these losses $16,600,000 has been transferred to nonactive assets. There is left $48,200,000 as an active asset out of a net capital investment of $83,700,000.
Seed Grain and Relief Advances.
Advances for seed grain and relief have been made from time to time to needy settlers in western Canada. These advances are repayable with interest, and, on March 31, 1931, $2,400,000 was carried in the account as realizable.
Advances for Working Capital and Miscellaneous.
The remaining assets carried as active total $30,400,000 under the general heading of advances for working capital and miscellaneous. The chief items under this category are amounts advanced to the Ottawa Mint for purchase of precious metals, the stores and open accounts of the Canadian Government Railways (now entrusted to the Canadian National Railways for operation) and the unamortized discount on the 4 per cent 193060 loan sold at a substantial discount, which will be absorbed over the life of the loan by annual charges to income.

[Stage Direction]
The liabilities of the Dominion as of March 31, 1931, may be summarized as follows:
Liabilities of Dominion on March 31, 1931	[DOT]
Dominion Notes Outstanding	$	141,066,256 69
Bank Circulation Redemption Fund	 6,788,162 46
Insurance and Superannuation Funds:
Government Annuities	$23,306,954	65Insurance Fund, Civil	Service	
6,373,647	19Insurance Fund Returned	Soldiers	
9,249,236	10Retirement Fund	
6,271,610	87Superannuation Funds	
35,056,489	12
80,257,937 93
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
[Stage Direction]
Liabilities of Dominion on March 31, 1931-Concluded.
Trust Funds:
Indian Funds	$13,764,581	06Common School Funds	
2,668,449	17Contractors' Securities Deposits	
1,712,817	35Other Trust Funds	
2,473,324	90Contingent and Special Funds	
Post Office Money Orders, Postal Notes, etc., outstanding
Province Accounts	
Post Office Savings Bank deposits	
Funded Debt-Unmatured	$2,319,279,007 20
Matured but not presented for payment. ..	555,882 04
Interest coupons matured but not presented for payment.
20,619,172 48 1,285,406 40 4,135,347 92 9,623,816 77 24,750,226 97
2,319.834,889 24 2,427,700 58
Total liabilities
[Stage Direction]
It may be 'well to make a brief explanation of these items. I may say, Mr. Speaker, that part of this labour is taken because this is a new parliament and there are a large number of young members who seem to take considerable interest in the financial structure of the country. Therefore I thought it desirable that they might have this record of the position as it existed on the 311st March, 1931, Although this has involved a very considerable amount of labour, I think they will regard the information thus afforded as being of value to them when they are considering the public questions of the country.
Dominion Notes Outstanding
At the close of the fiscal year, dominion notes in circulation amounted to $141,000,000. This is a reduction of $33,000,000 in the amount of notes outstanding at the commencement of the year. The decrease is more than accounted for by the reduced demands of the banks for notes under the Finance Act, which dropped from $50,200,000 at the commencement of the year to $6,500,000 on March 31, 1931. During the same period, the gold held as security for the redemption of the notes increased from $63,000,000 to $80,000,000, so that, while on March 31, 1930, gold reserves represented 36-30 per cent of the total notes in circulation, this percentage was increased to 56-90 per cent on March 31, 1931.
Trust and Special Funds
Each year the Dominion government derives a substantial amount of receipts from trust and special funds. These funds are not earmarked in any way, but are deposited in the general cash fund and are used to meet the current financial requirements of the government. These deposits create a liability which the government will be required to meet by

future disbursements. During the past year the treasury received a net amount of $10,000,000 from these sources. The amounts standing at the credit of these accounts on March 31, 1931, were:
Bank Circulation Redemption Fund $ 6,788,000
Government Annuities, Insurance
and Superannuation Funds..	..	80,257,000
Trust Funds	 20,619,000
Contingent and Special funds..	..	1,285,000
Post Office, Money Orders, Postal
Notes, etc., outstanding..	..	4,135,000
[Stage Direction]
Province Accounts
In the dominion books, a liability of $9,-
623,000	is carried representing the capital debt assumed by the dominion when the provinces entered confederation in respect of the assets taken over. The obligation is discharged by annual interest payments forming part of the subsidies.
Post Office Savings Bank Deposits
Deposits in the post office savings banks have continued to decrease. The reduction for the year amounted to $1,300,000, leaving deposits of $24,750,000 on March 31, 1931.
Matured Funded Debt and Interest Unpaid
As at March 31st, our accounts carried as a liability $555,000 for unpresented matured bonds and $2,400,000 for matured coupons outstanding.
Unmatured Funded Debt
The unmatured funded debt on March 31, 1931, was $2,319,000,000. This shows an increase of $92,000,000 compared with the debt on March 31, 1930, but in the issue that was floated in New York last October, provision was made for the retirement of the $25,000,000, 5 per cent public service loan which

The Budget,-Mr. Bennett
matured on April 1, 1931, after the end of the fiscal year. When allowance is made for this retirement, the increase is reduced to $67,000,000.
Sinking Fund
Provision is made for a sinking fund contribution of one-half of 1 per cent per annum on $254,000,000 of sterling debt payable in London.
The annual contribution of $1,272,263.57, together with the interest derived from the bonds and stocks held, are invested each year by the Bank of Montreal, London, acting as fiscal agent for the government. There is no sinking fund provision for the remaining $57,215,000 of sterling debt outstanding. The total investments on account of sinking funds on March 31, 1931, was $59,-
700,000,	of which $3,670,000 was purchased during last year.
After the three 5 per cent domestic war loans were issued in the years 1915 to 1917, a sinking fund of one-half of 1 per cent per annum was authorized by the governor in council. Certain investments were made on account of this sinking fund but purchases were discontinued when the bonds sold above par. No sinking fund provision has been made for the remaining domestic issues nor for the issues made in New York.
A statement showing the unmatured funded debt and the annual interest charges thereon follows:
Date of Maturity		Name of Loan
1931-April	i...	Public Service Loan 1916..Oct.	i...	War Loan 1916-31	1932-Nov.	i...	Renewal Loan 1922	Dec.	i..	Two Year Notes	1933-Nov.	i...	Victorv Loan 1918	1934-June	i...	Loan of 1884	Nov.	i...	Victory Loan 1919	1935-Aug.	i...	Bond Loan 1915-35	1936-Feb.	i...	Loan of 1926-36	1937-Mar.	i...	War Loan 1917-37	Dec.	i...	Victory Loan 1917	1938-July	i...	Loan of 1888	July	i...	Loan of 1892	July	i...	Loan of 1894	July	i...	C.P.R. Loan	1940-Sept.	i...	Refunding Loan 1925	1943-Oct.	15.. .	Refunding Loan 1923	1944-Oct.	15...	Refunding Loan 1924	1946-Feb.	1...	Refunding Loan 1926	1947-Oct.	1.. .	Loan of 1897	1950-July	1...	Loan of 1930-50	1952-May	1.. .	Loan of 1942-52	1960-Oct.	1.. .	Loan of 1940-60	Oct.	1...	Loan of 1930-60	Demand...	Debenture Stock School Lands	late	Where Payable	Amount of Loan	Amount Interest Charges%	$ cts.	$ cts.f5	New York	25,000,000 00	1,250,000 00f5	Canada	52,929,600 00	2,646,480 005§	Canada	73,323,150 00	4,032,773 254	Canada	40,000,000 00	1,600,000 00t-5l	Canada	446,659,950 00	24,566,297 253*	London	23,467,206 27	821,352 225i	Canada	511,910,650 00	28,155,085 75|5	Canada and N.Y.	874,000 00	43,700 004i	New York	40,000 000 00	1,800,000 00t5	Canada and N.Y.	90,166,900 00	4,508,345 00f5i	Canada	236,299,800 00	12,966,489 003	London	8,071,230 16	242,136 903	London	18,250,000 00	547,500 003	London	10,950,000 00	328,500 0031	London	15,056,006 66	526,960 2341	Canada	75,000,000 00	3,375,000 005	Canada	147,000,100 00	7,350,005 0041	Canada	50,000,000 00	2,250,000 0041	Canada	45,000,000 00	2,025,000 0021	London	4,888,185 64	122,204 6431	London	137,0.58,841 00	4,797,059 435	New York	100,000,000 00	5,000,000 004	London	93,926,666 66	3,757,066 674	New York	100,000,000 00	4,000,000 005	Canada	33,129,000 00	1,656,450 002,378,961,286 39	118,398,405 34Payable in Canada	
Payable in Canada and New York
Payable in New York	
Payable in London	
1,711,252,250 00 91,040,900 00 265,000,000 00 311,668,136 39
[Stage Direction]
Less Bonds and Stocks of the above Loans held as Sinking Funds..	59,764,439 00
fTax Free.

[Stage Direction]
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
[Stage Direction]
Of the funded debt 13.10 per cent is payable in London; 11.14 per cent in New York; 3.83 per cent in either New York or Canada, and 71.93 per cent in Canada. The following summary sets out the amount of debt outstanding at the different interest rates:
$	4,888,185 64 at 11%
37,271.230 16 at 3 % 175.582,053 93 at 3i% 233,926,666 66 at 4 %
210,000,000 00 at 4J% 449,099,600 00 at 5 % 1,268,193,550 00 at 51%
. .$	122,204	64..	1,118,136	90..	6,145,371	89..	9,357.066	66..	9,450,000	00..	22.454 980 00..	69,750,645	25

[Stage Direction]
The gross liabilities of the Dominion on March 31, 1931, were $2,610,700,000 as against which there were active assets of $349,180,000, to which reference has been made. The difference $2,261,600,000, commonly referred to as the net debt, but which is really the net debit balance in the accounts, is briefly accounted for under three heads.
First, there are loans and advances made for various enterprises which are not presently realizable, yield no direct return to the
treasury, and in the presentation of the accounts are treated as losses. These total $673,000,000, the chief of which are $614,000,000 to the Canadian National Railways, $15,-
500,000	to the Canadian National Steamships, $24,400,000 to the Quebec harbour commission and $16,600,000 soldier land settlement loans.
The second division is comprised of the aggregate of capital expenditures made on canals, railways, public buildings and harbour and river improvements, which total $927,-
300,000.	Another item of $88,000,000 is shown as "Railway Accounts (Old)", which refers to railway capital expenditures made in the early history of the country, the fruits of which were by legislation transferred to certain railway companies, hon. members will recall the transaction with respect to them during the Grand Trunk arbitration.
Then there is the balance of $572,500,000 at debit of consolidated fund on March 31, 1931. This is the accumulated deficits since the commencement of the accounts, or since confederation. All expenditures arising out of the world, war have been absorbed in this balance. A tabulation of the non-active assets follows:
Non-Active Assets on March 31, 1931
Canadian National Railways	$
Canadian National Steamships	
Harbour Commissioners:
Quebec	$24,429,995 68
Montreal and Three Rivers	 251,760 97
Seed Grain and Relief Advances	
Soldier and General Land Settlement	
Miscellaneous Advances, etc	
Capital Accounts:
Canals	$233,782,788	90Railways	
435,687,262	93Public Buildings, Harbour	and	River Improvements	
235,898,706	71Military Property and	Stores	
12,035,420	50Territorial Accounts	
9,895,947	68Railway Accounts (old)	
Consolidated Fund, balance at debit of, March 31, 1931
614,406.239 42 15,550,748 55
24.681.756 65 1,128,829 50 16,648,957 95 995,678 82
927,300,126 72 88,398,828 78 572,497,150 33
Net Debt March 31, 1931

[Stage Direction]
Hon. members will recall I spoke of obligations direct and indirect. Having dealt with the balance-sheet position of the dominion, its direct liabilities and the liquid and income-producing assets offsetting these in part, there remain for consideration the contingent or indirect liabilities. As at March fMr. Bennett.]
3-1, 1931, these indirect liabilities, as represented by securities guaranteed by the dominion outstanding in the hands of the public, amounted to $954,892,779. If to this figure there be added that part of the funded debt of the Canadian National Railways which does not bear a dominion government guarantee, a total of $1,268,748,433 is reached, accounted for as follows:-

The Budget-Mr. Bennett
Securities Guaranteed by the Dominion Government:
Harbour Commissions
Montreal Harbour Bridge	
New Westminster Elevator	
St. John Harbour Improvements	
Canadian National (West Indies) Steamships
Canadian National Railways	
954,892,779
72,184,488
63,240,571
88.808.374
7,480,621
82,341,600
Total of which $1,237,513,315 is Canadian National Debt to the public.. .. $1,268,748,433
Total Securities guaranteed by Dominion	
Canadian National Railway Debt not guaranteed by Dominion:- but for which of course we are liable-otherwise the property would cease to function-
Guaranteed by provinces	
Unguaranteed debt-
Perpetual debenture stock	
Mortgage bonds and debenture stock	
Other miscellaneous indebtedness	
Equipment trust notes & certificates	
.$19,000,000 .	700,000
.	2,135,118
21,835,118
9.400,000
923.657,661
The operation of the Canadian National Railways as an amalgamated unit dates from 1923. In January of that year, the former administration, by order in council, declared the preference and common stock of the Grand Trunk Railway Company of Canada to be the property of the Minister of Finance in trust for His Majesty and thereupon the amalgamation of the Grand Trunk with the Canadian National took place. It may be well for us to examine briefly the results of these eight years of operation, having regard particularly to their association with and reflex upon the dominion's financial position.
The period has been one in which a large sum of money has been made available to the system for capital investment, and there has been a corresponding increase in the debt of the company. In eight years some 400 millions of dollars have been added to the Canadian National Railways investment account for the construction and acquisition of lines, for terminals, hotels, new equipment, etc. This increase in debt has resulted in an addition to the annual interest charges on the system of almost 20 millions of dollars or about 55 per cent, so that when we consider the result of operations over the period, we must have in mind, on the one hand, the advantages expected to accrue from the assumption of a heavy additional obligation and, as an offsetting factor, the annual carrying charges resulting therefrom.
The balance sheet of the Canadian National Railways, through the profit and loss account indicates a loss in the eight-year period of 346 millions of dollars. The first and largest item making up this loss consists of 253 millions of dollars charged in the railway
accounts-but not paid-as interest on the sum of 604 millions of dollars of direct assistance by way of cash loans which the government has given to the company. As between the government and the system, this is only a bookkeeping item. The actual burden of this liability was taken over by the dominion and has been carried by the taxpayers of the country.
The balance of the loss, totalling $93,000,000, is made up of $86,000,000, being the actual deficiency of earnings in the eight-year period after charging interest due the public, but leaving aside the interest due the government, and $7,000,000 representing the net debit of adjustments through profit and loss account. These figures leave out of consideration the operations of the eastern lines since the passing of the Maritime Freight Rates Act in July, 1927, from which date the government has contributed directly to operating losses on these lines, apart from the 20 per cent reduction in tolls, the sum of $17,500,000.
The situation, therefore, is that since 1923 an additional capital liability of 400 millions of dollars has been assumed in respect of the railways, involving an increase in the annual interest charge of 20 millions of dollars. The system has failed to earn its interest charges during the period by a round sum of 86 millions, and the government has itself borne the carrying charges in respect of 604 millions of dollars contributed direct to the system, as well 'as, since 1927, operating losses of $17,500,000 on eastern lines.
It is well known and fully realized that the difficulties of transportation systems are not unique to Canada or to the Canadian-owned
2160
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
[Stage Direction]
system. To realize that in 1980 the gross revenues of the system were less than in the year 1023, notwithstanding the addition of 400 millions of dollars to the investment in
the property, serves only to impress the seriousness of the problem.
The following is a statement of these indirect obligations:
Bonds Guaranteed by Dominion Government as at March 31,1931
Date of Maturity	Issue	Interest Rate	Sept. 1, 1934	Canadian Northern	% 4 41	$ cts. 17,060,033 33 17.000.	000 00 25.000.	000 00 24.743.000	00 24.793.000	00 25.000.	000 00 700,000 00 667,953 04 9,359,996 72 50.000.	000 00 26.000.	000 00 9,400,000 00 50.000.	000 00 70.000.	000 00 65.000.	000 00 7,896,564 81 3,149,998 66 34,229,996 87 34.992.000	00 8,440,848 00 35.000.	000 00 60.000.	000 00 60,000,000 00 19.000.	000 00 18.000.	000 00 30,534,780 67Feb. 15, 1935	Canadian Northern	Sept. 1, 1936	Grand Trunk	Oct. 1, 1940	Grand Trunk	Dec. 1, 1940	7	July 1, 1946	Canadian Northern	6i	April 1, 1948	Aug. 1, 1952	July 10, 1953	Feb. 1, 1954	Sept. 15, 1954	41	Mar. 1, 1955	June 15, 1955	Canadian National	41 4i	Feb. 1, 1956	July 1, 1957	Canadian National	July 20, 1958	Canadian Northern	3i 3h 31	May 4, 1960	Can. Nor. Alberta	May 19, 1961	Can. Nor. Ontario	Jan. 1, 1962	Jan. 1, 1962	Dec. 1, 1968	Canadian National	4i	July 1, 1969	Canadian National	Oct. 1, 1969	5	Nov. 1, 1969	Feb. 1, 1970	By tenders or drawings...	Canadian National	2	Various dates, 1932-54	City of Saint John Debs, assumed by Saint John Har-	Serial-	bour Commissioners	various	1,467,164 96
Feb. and Aug. 1, 1931-			
38				11,250,000 00 60,833,333 33 20,782,491 67 13,252,322 67 119,839,014 33 1,499,979 67
Perpetual				
((			
((			
ft			
M			
			
			954,S92,778 73
Now, Mr. Speaker, at this point I should like to point out that there is a tendency on the part of the press supporting hon. gentlemen opposite to allege that the government is opposed to the Canadian National Railways. May I venture to declare that no man is a good Canadian who does not take time to study and realize the extent of the obligations which are being laid upon this country by this parliament. The Canadian National Railways' management cannot be charged with responsibility for this. The Canadian National Railways Act provides that the governor in council takes the position of shareholders under the Railway Act, and when I point out the sums that have been expended and the obligations that have been 
created during the last eight years, I do so because it has been done at the initiation of the government which is now the official opposition. Bear that in mind. I do think there is a failure on the part of the Canadian people to understand and appreciate the extent and character of the obligations which have thus been placed upon them. There you have $86,000,000 of a deficit in interest earning power in the last eight years, in addition to which the people of this country paid interest on $604,000,000 advance for the running of the enterprise.
Now, I submit, sir, I would be derelict in my duty, and I believe any hon. member would be derelict in his duty, if he did not analyze and ponder these matters. And the

The Budget-Mr. Bennett
blame must rest with the government of the day for the management of railway companies are always prone to submit requests for larger sums than they expect to get. Yet so far as I have been able to ascertain, not one single capital request made by the management of the Canadian National Railways during the last eight years was refused by the late government-not one. Is that so in any privately owned road? Go through the requisitions made on the Canadian Pacific Railway or on the Union Pacific, the Southern Pacific or the Santa Fe, and you will not find that state of affairs existing. Yet the late government, for reasons best known to themselves, have put the country in the position that I have just pointed out. And I do suggest that there is no business of the nation which should so concern hon. members-who represent the shareholders in a larger way than does the governor in council-as that resulting in figures to which I have just directed their attention. I certainly think, and this government certainly thinks, it is most unfair and unjust, and, what is more, inimical to the well-being of the enterprise itself, to say that because you direct attention to those figures and the effect of them that therefore you are an enemy of the enterprise. The best friend any business enterprise has is that shareholder who carefully scrutinizes the expenditures made by the directors during the year.
[Stage Direction]
Canada at the close of the year 1930 again ranked fifth among the nations in the volume of international trade. There were substantial decreases in the dollar value of trade, as compared with the year before, but were a graph made by use of quantities it would present a jagged picture. The fiscal year 1929-30 closed with an unfavourable balance of visible trade amounting to 103 millions. In the year under review the unfavourable balance was 89 millions.
The United States was the principal customer of Canada during the year, taking 44i% of our exports and in turn Canada purchased over 64% of its imports from the United States. In dollars, imports from the United States amounted to 584 millions, and the exports 364 millions. This left an unfavourable balance in the trade with the
United States of 220 millions. In the pre

ceding year imports had amounted to 847 millions and exports to 536 millions.
Trade with British Empire
Trade with the British Empire was unevenly affected during the year. On the import side, while there was a decrease from 252 millions to 204 millions, this decrease was largely in the imports from two countries-the United Kingdom and New Zealand. There was a 40 million dollar decrease in imports from the United Kingdom, $3,000,000 being in iron products, 8 millions in alcoholic beverages and 19 millions in textiles. The balance was spread throughout a wide list of articles. From New Zealand the decline was in imports of butter which decreased $9,700,000.
The exports to the British Empire amounted to 295 millions, a decrease of 86 millions from the year before. The countries to which exports fell off the most were: United Kingdom (62 millions), Australia (9.6 millions), New Zealand (6.4 millions), West Indies (3 millions), and Newfoundland (1.5 millions). Naturally, the greatest falling off in exports to the United Kingdom consisted of food stuffs. The decrease in exports of grains amounted to- 41 millions, in meats to $3,-
900,000,	in milk products to $4,400,000, in paper to $2,300,000, and in iron and its products to $2,800,000. The principal decreases in exports to other parts of the British Empire were in food commodities such as flour, paper and wood products, automobiles, farm implements, etc.
The trade of Canada in the fiscal year, when calculated by means of percentage, was divided as follows:
Imports Exports
With-	%	%British Empire	. 22.6	36.1United States	. 64.4	44.5Treaty countries	. 9.2	14.1Other countries	. 3.8	5.3100.	100.Imports of Commodities	Ten product groups make	up in value the	major part of the imports into Canada	, and acomparison over the last	five year	period
emphasizes the material reductions which took place.
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
[Stage Direction]
Group
Sugar and products	
Alcoholic beverages	
Cotton and products	
Wool products	
Textile products, other.. .
Iron products	
Non-ferrous metal products
Coal and products	
Petroleum	
Chemicals	
1927	1928	1929	1930	1931
	(in	millions)		
40.4	38.8	31.7	27.9	25.129.3	45.9	48.8	45.0	35.454.1	58.2	63.2	54.0	35.250.5	48.8	54.4	46.6	33.678.9	79.8	88.7	84.5	61.8229.4	259.5	346.6	316.8	194.952.7	60.1	75.4	87.9	59.668.6	64.8	63.1	64.1	58.154.4	53.5	64.0	78.7	62.731.8	33.5	37.7	39.9	35.6
Exports of Commodities A study of the exports shows every activity to have been touched by the decline in values -the products of the farm, the mine, the
Group
Grains	
Flour	
Milk and products	
Lumber, logs, etc	
Paper	
Fish	
Rubber products	
Non-ferrous metal products
Iron products	
Wood pulp	
forest, the fishery and the factory. Again summarizing under ten groups, the record of
the past	five years	shows:	1927	1928	1929	1930	1931(in millions)	394.4	391.6	476.1	232.7	180.868.7	59.8	65.1	45.4	32.841.6	34.0	35.7	27.4	18.7107.8	99.3	91.6	89.7	60.7123.2	134.9	148.3	151.5	131.934.5	33.5	34.9	34.7	27.826.6	28.6	30.5	32.2	21.080.6	90.8	112.7	154.3	95.674.2	62.7	82.2	78.5	38.949.9	47.3	44.9	44.7	35.1
Imports of Certain Goods
In the month of September, changes were made in the rates of over one hundred tariff items. A comparative statement is difficult because some divisions were previously incorporated into general items. With this reservation, the imports under the 129 items amounted to $112,271,000 in the period from
Year
1927..
1928.. 1929. .
1930..
1931..
New Industries Established in Canada Since August, 1930, there has been a marked influx of new concerns from outside countries into the dominion. It will be some time before full details in regard to capital invested, number employed, etc., can be secured since some are still in process of organization, but eighty-seven such concerns have already been listed by the dominion bureau of statistics and the number continues to grow. Of the eighty-seven, seventy-four are United States manufacturing concerns, eleven are British- seven manufacturing and four non-manufacturing-and two are French.
These firms represent considerable diversification in industry. United States firms in-
October 1st, 1929, to March 31st, 1930, and in the same period commencing October 1st, 1930, and ending March 31st, 1931, the imports were $61,920,000.
Summary of the Trade
A statement of the world trade of Canada in the past five years follows:
Imports
[Stage Direction]
1,030,892,505
1,108,956,406
1,265,679,091
1,248,273,582
906,612,681
Total
Exports
%
1,267,573,142
1,250,598,034
1,388,896,075
1,144,938,070
817,003,048
Balance
[Stage Direction]
+ 236,680,637 + 141,641,568 + 123,216,984 -103.335,512 - 89,609,633
elude eight in the vegetable produots groups- such as foods and rubber-two animal products, eight textile, eight wood and paper products, twenty iron and steel, twelve nonferrous metals, three non-metalldc minerals, nine chemicals and allied products, two mining and two miscellaneous. British firms include three textile, six iron and steel, one chemical and one miscellaneous. The two French firms are textile manufacturers.
List of New Concerns Establishing in Canada since August, 1930 United States
A.	Vegetable Products:
1.	Campbell Soup Co., Ltd., New Toronto, Ont.
2.	Fine Foods of Canada, Ltd. (Minnesota Canning), Windsor, Ont.

The Budget

Mr. Bennett
A. Vegetable Products-Cone.
3.	Hill Nut Co., Ltd., Toronto, Ont.
4.	Liberty Cherry Co. of Canada, Ltd., Toronto, Ont.
5.	Newton Products, Toronto, Ont.
6.	Stedfast Rubber Co., Granby, Que.
7.	Stedman Flooring Co., Farnham, Que.
8.	Teabury Chewing Gum Co., Sherbrooke, Que.
B.	Animal Products (Exceipt Textiles):
1.	Cantilever Shoe Co. of Canada, Ltd., Toronto, Ont.
2.	Sohwegler's Hatchery, Bridgeburg, Ont.
C.	Textiles:
1.	Aero Corp. of Canada, Kitchener, Ont.
2.	B. Edmund David, Hawkesbury, Ont.
3.	Dominion Webbing Co., Ltd., Kingston, Ont.
4.	Donahue Corp. of Canada, Ltd., St. Hyacinthe, Que.
5.	Henry Hamer & Sons, Ltd., St. George de Beauce, P.Q.
6.	Esmond Mills, Ltd. of Canada, Granby, Que.
7.	Herbert Hosiery Mills, Ltd., Toronto, Ont.
8.	Westminster Hosiery Ltd., Mount Denis, Ont.
D.	Wood and Paper Products:
1.	Belleville-Sargent & Co., Ltd., Belleville, Ont.
2.	Brown & Bigelow Ltd., Toronto, Ont.
3.	Dixon Pencil Co., Newmarket, Ont.
4.	Eagle Pencil Co. of Canada, Ltd., Drum-mondville, Que.
5.	Hardware, Woodenware and Toys, Ltd., Coaticook, Que.
6.	Schaeffer Ross Co. of Canada, Ltd., Toronto, Ont.
7.	Schlegel Co. of Canada, Ltd., Toronto, Ont.
8.	Venus Pencil Co. of Canada, Ltd., Toronto, Ont.
E.	Iron and its Products:
1.	A. B. C. Washer Co., Granby, Que.
2.	Burr, Patterson & Auld Co., Walker-ville, Ont.
3.	Castings of Canada, Ltd., Smiths Falls, Ont.
4.	Cross Coal-O-Matie Co. of Can., Ltd., Montreal, P.Q. _
5.	Dominion Hoist & Shovel Co.
6.	Dominion Motors Ltd., Toronto, Ont.
7.	Fedder Mfg. Co., Toronto, Ont.
8.	Heaters of Canada, Oakville, Ont.
9.	Hump Hairpin Co., St. Hyacinthe, Que.
10.	Hupp Motor Car Corp., Windsor, Ont.
11.	Johnson (S. T.) Oil Burners of Canada, Ltd., Montreal, P.Q.
12.	Lodge Motor Co., Ltd., Walkerville, Ont.
13.	Lynn Canadian Products, Ltd., Brock-ville, Ont.
14.	Metal Textile Corp., Hamilton, Ont.
15.	Radiator Specality Co. of Canada, Toronto, Ont.
16.	Reo Motor Co. of Canada, Toronto, Ont.
17.	Taco Heater Ltd. of Canada, Toronto, Ont.
18.	D. D. Terrill Saw Co., Pembroke, Ont.
19.	Tower Oil Burner Co. Ltd., Montreal,
Que.	[DOT]
20.	Stewart Truck Corp. of Canada (Assembling), Fort Erie, Ont.
F.	Manufacturers of Non-Ferrous Metals:
1.	Curtis Lighting Co. of Canada, Ltd., Toronto, Ont.
2.	Dennison Electric Co., Toronto, Ont.
3.	Dictograph Co.	of	Canada,	Ltd.,(Assembling),	Toronto,	Ont.4.	Eastern	Power Devices,	Ltd.	(Formerly
Sales Office), Toronto, Ont.
5.	Hammond Co. of Canada, Ltd., Toronto, Ont.
6.	International Resistance Co. Ltd., Toronto, Ont.
7.	Leland Electric of Canada, Ltd., Toronto, Ont.
8.	Noma Electric Co. of Canada, Toronto, Ont.
9.	General	Railway	Signal	Co.	of	Canada
Ltd., Toronto, Ont.
10.	Packard Cable Co. of Canada, Ltd., Toronto, Ont.
11.	J. P. Seeburg Corp., Toronto, Ont.
12.	Wheeler Reflector Co., Toronto, Ont.
G.	Manufacturer or Non-Metallie Minerals:
1.	Messrs. Bundy Insulators Co., Oshawa, Ont.
2.	Master Builders, Ltd., Toronto, Ont.
3.	Tranco Manufacturing Co. (Canada) Ltd., (formerly sales office), Leaside, Ont.
H.	Chemicals and Allied Products:
1.	Canadian Bitumels Co., Ltd., New Toronto, Ont.
2.	Everett & Barron of Canada, Ltd., Toronto, Ont.
3.	Fyr-Fyter Co. of Canada, Ltd., Hamilton, Ont.
4.	The A. W. Higgins Co., St. John, N.B.
5.	Mallinckrodt Chemical Works of Can., Ltd. (formerly sales office), Toronto, Ont.
6.	Mum Mfg. Co. Inc., Windsor, Ont.
7.	Ober Fertilizer Co., Welland, Ont.
8.	Sheffield Bronze Powder Co., Ltd., (formerly sales office), Toronto, Ont.
9.	Summers Fertilizer Co. Inc., St. Stephen, N.B.
I.	Miscellaneous Industries:
1.	L. G. Balfour Co., Sherbrooke, P.Q.
2.	Film Laboratories of Canada, Ltd., Toronto, Ont.
J.	Mining and Metallurgical:
1.	Northwest Stellarene Co., Coutts, Alta.
2.	Parco Oil Co., Ltd., Calgary, Alta.
List of New Concerns Establishing in Canada since August, 1930
Great Britain
C. Textiles:
1.	Hield Bros., Kingston, Ont.
2.	G. H. Hirst &* Co., Carleton Place, Ont.
3.	Hiram Leach & Co., Huntingdon, Que.
E. Iron' and Steel Products:
1.	Imperial Typewriter Co. (Canada), Ltd., (Non-Mfg.), Toronto, Ont.
2.	Quasi-Arc Co., Ltd., (Non-Mfg.), Toronto, Ont.
3.	Taylor Instrument Co. of Canada, Ltd., (Non-Mfg.), Toronto, Ont.
4.	Warwick Time Stamp Co., Toronto, Ont.
5.	Wright's Canadian Ropes, Ltd., Vancouver, B.C.
6.	Zanogen Steel Co. of Canada, Ltd., Toronto, Out.
H.	Chemicals and Allied Products:
1. British Drug Houses (Canada) Ltd., (Non-Mfg.), Toronto, Ont.
I.	Miscellaneous:
1. Bovil & Hood (Canada), Ltd., Montreal, P.Q.
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
[Stage Direction]
France
C. Textiles:
1.	Canadian T.S.R. of Lyons, Ltd., Cap de la
Madeleine, Que.	-
2.	Henry Potez of Canada, Ltd., Cap de la Madeleine, Que.
Mr. MACKENZIE KING:: They are
practically all in Ontario and Quebec, are they not?


Richard Bedford Bennett: With the exception of
two, I think. Now, may I just meet a few words of criticism in advance, although perhaps it is unnecessary. The extent of investment in Canadian industry by United States, other foreign countries and Great Britain is a subject of far-reaching importance. All young or undeveloped nations have been dependent on large capital investments by outside countries for the development of their natural resources and for assistance in the establishment of the diversified industry necessary to all-round national development. Without such assistance industrial progress would be slow and desperately difficult. The hardships being endured by the Russian people to-day exemplify the sacrifice which an undeveloped nation would be called upon to make, not for five but many times five years, if that nation were to strive to become industrialized through its own savings of capital. Canada has for many years received large investments from other countries. Fear has sometimes been expressed that these outside nations by starting industries in this country or investing their capital in various Canadian enterprises, commercial, governmental, financial or other, are obtaining a menacing position in our economic life. The facts of the case reveal these fears to be entirely unfounded. A recent bulletin of the bureau of statistics shows that in January, 1930, there were located in Canada 1,199 British, United States and other foreign branch, subsidiary and affiliated firms concerned with manufacturing or production. Of these, 1,023 were from United States, 162 from Great Britain and 14 from other countries. The capital employed in these concerns amounted to 11,818,000,000, ownership of which in individual firms ranged from less than 50 per cent to 100 per cent. In all, 68 per cent or $1,239,000,000 was owned in the United States, 17 per cent or 8317,000,000 was owned in Canada, 14 per cent or $257,000,000 in Great Britain and $6,000,000 or less than 1 per cent in other countries.
Even in such branch or subsidiary firms Canadians held nearly 20 per cent interest, and it is a well known fact that the Canadian proportion tends to increase. There have been many instances of firms established in

Canada by outsiders eventually passing into Canadian hands.
To see such facts in their proper perspective, however, it is necessary to compare the figures with those of the geographical distribution of ownership of all capital employed in Canada. It is estimated that the amount is $17,500,000,000. This sum includes the bonded indebtedness of Dominion, provincial and municipal governments, investments in railways, manufacturing concerns, mines and metal industries, public utilities, trading establishments, finance, insurance, etc. It includes private capital in domestic enterprises such as farms and homes. Of this sum it is estimated that 65 per cent or $11,500,000,000 is owned in Canada, 20 per cent or $3,500,000,000 in the United States, 33 per cent or $2,200,000,000 in Great Britain and 2 per cent or $300,000,000 in other countries. It is obvious that the control of our enterprises is very predominantly in our own hands. If the basis of comparison be our total national wealth, foreign and British investments are still less significant. Our national wealth is now probably in the neighbourhood of $30,000,000,000; British and foreign investments of capital in Canada are $6,000,000,000 or just 20 per cent. Even of this 20 per cent many millions of dollars are represented by bonds which do not ordinarily carry with them direction or control of industry.
I believe, sir, that any member of this house reading these figures must be impressed with the resource and courage and enterprise of the Canadian people in industrial, agricultural and manufacturing fields of endeavour. Of sums so vast, I do not believe there is any record on the part of any other population equally small and scattered over an area so great.
May I point out now that Canada carries on its business at home and abroad by the application of principles that vary with the administrations of the day. So far as this party is concerned, it directs, and will continue to direct its operations from three angles: first, we believe that we have, been entrusted with great resources which it is our duty to develop to the greatest possible extent; secondly, that Canadians are entitled to carry on that development, enjoying an equal opportunity with the other peoples of the world engaged in the development of their respective countries; and, thirdly, that Canadians are entitled to fair competition in carrying forward that development. We meet the last requirement by dumping legislation; we meet the second requirement by tariff legislation; and we meet the first requirement by the courage and enterprise of our people.

The Budget-Mr. Bennett
Now it has been customary, in the course of very many centuries, for trading peoples to negotiate agreements or treaties with others who are engaged in commerce; and in this regard the Canadian people have not been unlike others. But may I point out this: that Canada, by reason of being a part of the British Empire, has treaties applying to our trading enterprises somewhat different from those that exist in other parts of the world. For instance, Canada has treaties which were made direct by this dominion. That is fact No. 1. We have a treaty with France made on December 15, 1922; one with Italy made on January 4, 1923; one with Belgium made on July 3, 1924; one with the Netherlands made on July 11, 1924; one with Czechosla-vakia made on March 15, 1928; and one, modus vivendi, made, with Cuba, November
1929.
Then Canada has a second kind of treaty -a treaty made by Great Britain on behalf of the British Empire but which provides that this part of the empire is bound by it only when we accede thereto. Of this kind of treaty we had two, one with Japan, made on April 3, 1911, to which we acceded on May 1, 1913, and one with Spain, made on April 5, 1927, to which we acceded on August 1, 1928.
Again, we have another, a third form of treaty, namely, that which contains a clause providing that the most-favoured-nation terms shall be accorded to Canada if similar treatment is given by this dominion to the country with which the. treaty is made. Such treaties we have with Finland, Esthonia, Hungary, Jugoslavia, Latvia, Lithuania, Portugal and Roumania.
Lastly, we have that class of treaty which was made by Great Britain before we became a confederation, or before we negotiated treaties on our own behalf-treaties that bound every part of the British Empire when they were made by Great Britain, long years before we became a dominion. The list is interesting. Of such treaties, there is one with Argentina, made on the 2nd day of February 1825; one with Colombia, made on the 16th day of February 1866; one with Denmark, made on February 13, 1660; one with Norway, made on March 18, 1826; one with Sweden -the oldest of all-made on April 11, 1654; one with Switzerland, made on September 6. 1855; and one with Venezuela, made on April 18, 1825.
These trade treaties exist for the purpose of extending trade and commerce on mutually advantageous terms. For instance, the late government made a treaty with Australia which was extended to New Zealand by order
in council on October 1, 1925. It was withdrawn by order in council on October 12, 1930, after it had been in force a little over five years.
Now, the difference between my hon. friends opposite and ourselves is this: we believe in trade treaties that are mutually advantageous to the parties to the treaty. And we believe that the only method by which you can understand and appreciate just what the effect of treaties will be is to have a clear conception of their possible implications; for nothing could be more ruinous than what has transpired during the last few months in connection with the treaties with Australia and New Zealand. We negotiated a treaty with Australia. I may say for the information of the house that that treaty was never signed. That probably was merely an accident or an oversight. The treaty consisted of so many pieces of paper-some twenty-five in all, I believe. Difficulties were experienced; differences arose, parliament was in session, and it became necessary to complete the matter before the rising of the house. And so we passed the statute that ratified that Australian treaty, and made provision therein whereby, by order in council, it might be extended to other countries. On October 1, 1925, it was extended to New Zealand. The right hon. member opposite who leads the opposition to-day (Mr. Mackenzie King), shortly before that, in Woodstock, Ontario, declared that he could not conceive it possible-and he honestly so believed-that the extension of the treaty to New Zealand could be inimical to the trading interests of Canada. But let us see what happened. At that time New Zealand had no channel of trade with Canada for butter. Now, a channel of trade is like any other channel that may be created: it is something which once created cannot as a rule be changed without injury. That channel not having been established in 1925, they began just as an individual would do, to widen and deepen such a channel by sending forward their butter under that treaty at 1 cent per pound. By that means they began to create a channel of trade. That channel grew in size until the imports into this country year by year expanded, reaching at last so colossal a figure as to amount to several millions of dollars for butter alone.
There you have a well-defined, well-established channel of trade between the sister dominion of New Zealand and Canada, with the result that this trade was injurious to the Canadian producer. And the government of the right hon. gentleman opposite- not this government-gave notice terminat-
The Budget-Mr. Bennett

ing that treaty. They gave notice in April of last year while this house was in session, because the right hon. gentleman was himself convinced that the treaty should be denounced, and he gave six months' notice under the terms of the treaty, terminating that arrangement with New Zealand. With what result? With this result-that when we came into office New Zealand bitterly complained of the situation; they said that they could not entertain the idea that their butter should not continue to come into this country as it had done before. We endeavoured to explain to them that Canada believed that this dominion should also be on an export basis for buter. We pointed out that we were a dairy country and that they must not think that they could displace Canadian produce for their own, excellent though it is. Having pointed that out to them, we continued in our efforts to make some arrangement, some modus vivendd, by which we could carry on reciprocal trade. But for some reason, best known to its government, New Zealand believed that Canada must-I use the word advisedly-buy butter from New Zealand. Either to-day or tomorrow the parliament of New Zealand will refuse the British preference to Canada and they will do so because we are not in a position to let their butter come into this country practically free to supplant our own product. Who is to blame for that? Who is to blame for the unfortunate difficulties which exist between the two great dominions? The gov-vernment that did not foresee the implications of the treaty it made, and the government that terminated that treaty thereby creating the condition to which I have referred. Let there be no shaking of heads-did or did not the former government terminate that treaty? If it did, then it must accept responsibility. The result is that New Zealand says-very properly so, I suppose, from their standpoint, thinking of themselves alone- that they are not going to permit Canada to have a British preference in their markets unless we allow their butter to come in here.
I cite that for the simple and obvious reason that it becomes necessary to realize that when treaties are made there should be a clear understanding and appreciation of their implications. That is one of the reasons why we endeavoured while in England and since, to arrive at some arrangement with our great sister dominion, Australia, which would not make it necessary to destroy channels of trade and bring about the hard feelings which no doubt would prevail and have prevailed in connection with New Zealand. During the last few months, while he has been in health,

the Minister of Trade and Commerce (Mr. Stevens) has been engaged constantly in endeavouring to insure that a reasonable treaty may be made between Australia and Canada. I trust that in furtherance of the unanimous view expressed by the overseas dominions at the Imperial economic conference last year we may be able to negotiate an agreement which will be mutually advantageous to both countries. It is my earnest hope and my confident belief that before this house rises we will submit such a treaty or agreement for the consideration of this house. I cannot permit this opportunity to pass without stating that we are really under an obligation to the government of Australia for the manner in which they have treated us during the last year in connection with butter and its products. They have made it possible for the channels of trade not to be destroyed in such a way as to bring about that condition of mind on the part of their country which now prevails in New Zealand. We are under a great obligation to them for what they have done in that regard.
I mention also another treaty which stands in a somewhat similar position, namely, the treaty negotiated with France. The French treaty provides that a fixed and definite rate must prevail and that we cannot grant to any other country a different rate without violating the provisions of that treaty. In the budget presented to this house in May last there was an interference with the provisions of that treaty, to which the great republic very properly directed our attention. A treaty containing provisions such as that cannot, I submit, ever be a sound treaty because it disregards the fundamental rule which must always obtain in connection with trade treaties and which we propose to continue so far as we are concerned. That rule is this: Treaties must be mutually advantageous; if they are not they fail, and unless there is a clear appreciation of that fact there cannot be other than failure. This rule was stated very clearly the other day by the president of the United States Steel Corporation. Speaking to the National Foreign Trade Convention on May 28, he said:	It is a sound economic principle to sell in markets where the product is needed for consumption and where there is no surplus of the same commodity
May I point out to the house that all the domestic trade of this country which represents imports is foreign trade to some other country. If hon. gentlemen opposite will only get in their minds that fundamental thought they will realize that this government on the one hand, desires to maintain the

The Budget-Mr. Bennett
economic principle to which Mr. Farrell referred and on the second hand, to realize to the full that every import brought into this country from abroad represents foreign trade to some other country. Our business is to see that we do not expand the foreign trade of any other country when we ourselves are producing or can produce the goods so imported.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: How does my right hon. friend propose to expand the foreign trade of Canada under rules of that kind?


Richard Bedford Bennett: It is very simple. Does the right hon. gentleman for a moment mean to say that there are not countries which do . not produce the commodities which Canada produces and which they require? That is what he is trying to say, and I can tell him that the whole theory upon which trade within the British Empire will ultimately be built up is upon the proper appreciation and realization that the requirements of each part can be filled by requisitioning the production of such commodities from other parts of the empire. The foreign trade of Canada can be built up, just as Mr. Farrell said, by making our arrangements with countries which have to have what we produce and which do not come in competition with the surplus they themselves produce in their own countries.
Hon. gentlemen opposite seem to find some difficulty in working that out. Of course they will find difficulty, for the simple and obvious reason that for nine years the colossal failures they made themselves indicate their inability to do so, and that is why we are here to-day.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: The colossal
trade was not a colossal failure.


Richard Bedford Bennett: The loss of trade was exactly the same-


William Lyon Mackenzie King: I said colossal trade.


Richard Bedford Bennett: *-in Canada as in other countries of the world, and we are still the fifth trading country of the world. In other words, the ten millions of people inhabiting this vast territory are the fifth trading people in the world. I will admit that the right hon. gentleman and his friends opposite would like that not to be. They would rejoice if it were not so because it would be of some political advantage to them. Their constant fear seems to be that by the application of business principles to these matters we will insure success, and they have made every effort they could to bring about failure with respect to the Imperial economic conference.
Their every effort has been directed in an endeavour to bring about if possible a failure in order that they may derive some political credit. What is more, that is well understood in the various parts of this empire.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: Could my right hon. friend have asked for more in the way of a free hand than what he had at the last Imperial conference?


Richard Bedford Bennett: The right hon. gentleman has failed to appreciate what I say

the former Minister of the Interior (Mr. Stewart) never could understand it-hon. gentlemen opposite must realize that I am referring to their efforts to belittle and if possible destroy the adjourned conference at Ottawa. That fact is fairly well understood.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: Is there to be a conference this fall?


Richard Bedford Bennett: The hon. gentleman
knows that I cannot be diverted by that from this budget. Let me proceed.


Mr. POWER:: The hon. gentleman is giving us considerable diversion.


Richard Bedford Bennett: The hon. gentleman's
wit is greater than his understanding.
May I now, having reverted to the question of trade, point out the position which this country occupies amongst the nations of the world and the result of the efforts which were made in September last to ensure that there should be less of other people's products come into competition, on terms that are injurious and destructive to our own industrial well-being, with the products we ourselves produce.
Having done that, I shall now speak of two matters further and then I shall have done in that regard. A few months ago I [DOT] pointed out that the republic of France, realizing the weakness to which attention was directed with respect to the treaty, had undertaken to increase their purchases of wheat from this country during the current wheat season, and prior to the end of April they had bought six times as much wheat from Canada as during the preceding year. Moreover, notwithstanding the statements that have been made as to the difficulties under which we labour, the statement made by the former Minister of Trade and Commerce that this country could do nothing to sell wheat-selling wheat is something he could not do-all I can say is this: The net result of the situation to-day is that we have sold
The Budget-Mr. Bennett

at least one-third more wheat than we did for the same period the year before. That is the lowest estimate, and it is increasing very rapidly.


An hon. MEMBER:: What about the
price?


Richard Bedford Bennett: The price is just as low this year as it was last with respect to the other countries of the world, but we have endeavoured as best we could, although opposed by hon. gentlemen opposite, to secure the markets, and as a matter of fact, as is shown by the increased exports of wheat, we have to some extent secured them.



WAYS AND MEANS FISCAL YEAR 1931-32

[Stage Direction]
I now come to what probably to some is the most interesting part of our discussion, namely, to what ways and means we shall resort for the purpose of providing the money to carry ' on the public business. I shall come first of all to a statement of anticipated revenues and expenditures. I will admit that this is the first time for many years that this country has had a budget.
["I take it that when the\nhouse meets at eight o'clock we shall revert to questions.\nAt six o'clock the house took recess.\nAfter Recess\nThe house resumed at eight o'clock."]
Some hon. MEMBERS:: Oh, oh.


Richard Bedford Bennett: Will any hon. member on the other side of the house say that last year there was any estimate given of expected revenues? Was there any estimate given of expected expenditures? Was there any word given of a 375,000,000 deficit? What did they do? What the then government did was merely to bring down estimates for moneys to be raised by taxation without any estimate of what was to be realized. I said frequently in this house in those days, and I now repeat, that not in any municipal council in this country would the people tolerate their mayor
Ordinary expenditures	
Unemployment relief	
Capital expenditures	
Special expenditures	
Loans and advances non-active
and councillors conducting business without giving an estimate of expected expenditures and revenues for the current year. It is the basis of responsible government, it is the basis upon which representative institutions have been established, and that responsibilty can only attach when there is some estimate as to what is being received by the country from the taxation imposed and as to what expenditures are to be made. So I propose under the heading which I have given to draw attention to these matters. I shall ask hon. gentlemen to go through the record of my predecessors in that regard during the last seven or eight years and see if they can find any such record there. I could have easily escaped doing so. All I would have had to do would have been to follow the example of my predecessors during the past eight years, and I would have escaped all responsibility for giving any figures of what the proposed income and expenditure will be during the present year.
On the basis of existing taxation rates, the anticipated revenues in the present fiscal year will be $325,120,000. A division of the amount by sources is:-
Customs	$117,000,000
Excise duties	 59,500,000
Income tax	 54,000,000
Excise taxes	 38,000,000
Post Office	 30,500,000
Interest on investments	 8,800,000
Miscellaneous revenues	 13,276,000
321,076,000
German reparation payments and
miscellaneous receipts	 4,044,000

The expenditures for the year, including all statutory charges, are estimated at $430,457,828. A division of these, and a comparison with the actual expenditures last year, are:
Actual

Estimated

It will, therefore, be noted that with estimated revenues of $325,120,000 and with estimated expenditures of $430,457,828, parliament must take under consideration ways and means to secure added revenues if the accounts are to be. balanced. The sum of $105,337,828 will be required if all expenditures are treated as charges against the year's revenues. On the other hand, if the $18,484,243 on 
capital account, plus the $1,700,000 estimated to be required by the Quebec harbour commission, which in the foregoing table is included in Loans and Advances non-active are treated as permanent improvements, and paid from borrowings, the. additional amount required is $85,153,585. The new imposts to be authorized by the resolutions about to be tabled will, it is hoped, produce an additional

The Budget-Mr. Bennett
estimated amount of $78,175,000 and for the purpose of showing the increases by sources, a summarized list is now given:
Customs duties	 $ 5/000,000
Excise taxes
Sales tax	 52,500.000
Tax on imports	 7,500,000
Stamps	 1,000,000
Income tax	 9,500,000
Post Office	 2,175,000
Other taxes	 500,000

On the. basis of the ipresent volume of business, it is estimated that these additional taxes will yield S94,000,000 in a twelve months' period.
To give a comparison of the estimated total revenues for the present year, with the. actual revenues of last year, the following is submitted:
	Actual	Estimated
	1930-31	1931-32
Customs duties. . .. Excise duties	 Excise taxes		$131,209,000 57.747.000 34.735.000 71.048.000 30.212.000	$122,000,000 59.500.000 99.000,000 63.500.000 32.675.000
Post Office	 Interest on Invest-		
ments	
Miscellaneous II eve-	10,421,000	8,800,000nue	14,221,000 $349,593,000	13,776,000 $399,251,000German reparation	payment and MiscelLaneous receipts.	6,622,000	4,044,000$356,215,000	$403,295,000
With estimated expenditures of $410,273,000 exclusive of expenditures on capital account and advances to Quebec harbour commission, but including the balance of $13,000,000 of the unemployment relief appropriation of 1930 and estimated revenues of $403,295,000, the deficiency in revenues under expenditures, based upon the estimates made, will be some $7,000,000.
The $13,000,000 for unemployment relief is a commitment actually made in 1930-31, and would more properly be considered in the accounts of last year, but under the government's system of book-keeping, the actual disbursements not being made until this year due to the time necessary for the usual accounting formalities, they serve to add to the expenditures of the present year. Taking this into consideration, the figures presented indicate a balancing of the budget by a substantial margin in respect of expenditures properly applicable to 1931-32, after excluding capital.
While on the subject of oui commitments for the year, let me say that contractual
obligations entered into by the harbour commissions of Halifax and St. John under the former administration involving millions of dollars of expenditure for which no parliamentary sanction was in existence will add materially to our financial requirements. It will be necessary for the government to ask parliament to make provision for the implementing of these contracts. The whole matter is under investigation and report but it is possible to say that the amounts involved in these contracts and in ancillary expenditures which are recommended to render the main projects of commercial value will be over $6,000,000 divided about equally between these ports. Also, in respect of the elevator built in 1927 at New Westminster but not yet in operation, some $300,000, in addition to $700,000 already provided by way of guarantee of securities, is asked of this administration to meet commitments made but not provided for.
Included in the expenditures to which I have referred, contemplated for this year, are those provided by the main estimates, and the additional sums which we have provided for supplementaries, besides a sum for old age pensions, increasing our contributions to the provinces from 50 to 75 per cent for this year only in respect of the total sums that are paid. We propose to implement the promise made by the Conservative party at the convention which was held at Winnipeg and at which during the succeed'ng election I became the mouthpiece of that party and its policies by providing a further sum of $1,800,000 for coal subsidies.



[Stage Direction]
On coal movements from Alberta and the eastern area of British Columbia to the Manitoba market some 100,000 tons have been moved since June of last year.
We now propose to grant a higher rate of assistance on Canadian coal shipped to this market and at the same time extend the area as far east as Fort Frances and Sioux Lookout. The increased assistance now provided should do much to extend the market for Canadian coals. The assistance provided in this case is by the payment of I of one cent per ton per ton per mile on coal to Manitoba and $ of one cent per ton per mile on movements eastward as far as Fort Frances and Sioux Lookout.
Maximum $2 per ton into Ontario.
Maximum $1.50 per ton into Manitoba.
The Bud,get-Mr. Bennett
[Stage Direction]
Saskatchewan
Shipments of lignite from the Saskatchewan field will be assisted by a payment of £ of one cent per ton per mile on movements to Manitoba and that part of Ontario just mentioned. The previous assistance granted amounted to a straight bonus of 50c. per ton applying only to the Manitoba market. This is now extended as far east as Fort Frances and Sioux Lookout.
Maximum SI per ton.
British Columbia
It appears that with reasonable assistance the coal industry of British Columbia can be improved and with this end in view the government has decided to assist by granting the sum of 25c. per ton on sales of coal sold for fuel, for ships' stores or for export to foreign countries. This assistance will not apply on exports to the United States of America.
There again one is confronted with a situation of great seriousness. The people of the Pacific slope, when they substituted oil for coal, probably did not realize the extent of the injurious effect upon the coal industry. Therefore, along the coast of British Columbia oil burners have been substituted for coal grates, and changes cannot be made without causing tremendous lasses in a period of great depression. The same thing applies to other matters, so much so that when the new hotel was built at Vancouver, the pressure to burn oil succeeded over the pressure to have coal used until my hon. friend the Minister of Railways reversed the decision and provided that coal should be burned. There are great merits to the use of oil as a fuel, but it is imported into this country and when the gasoline is taken from it the crude oil becomes available for fuel purposes. Industries have been established using that fuel, and to change back to coal would involve tremendous losses at this time.
Seasonal Movements 1928; April 15 to July 15.. 1929; Jan. 15 to July 31.. ..
1929-	30; Dec. 1 to July 31..
1930-	1931; Oct. 25 to July 31
New Brunswick
The assistance previously granted to the eastern coal industry did not extend the markets for New Brunswick coal. The assistance now authorized is by a payment of £ of one cent per ton per mile on movements to points in the provinces of Quebec and Ontario.
Maximum 81.50 per ton.
Nova Scotia
Goal movements from the province of Nova Scotia to points in the provinces of Quebec and Ontario are further encouraged by a payment of £ of one cent per ton per mile to Quebec and £ of one cent per ton per mile to Ontario from St. Lawrence ports. An all rail winter movement is also provided by the payment of £ of one cent per ton per mile.
Maximum 75 cents on the £ rate; maximum $2 on the £ rate; maximum $1.50 on the £ rate.
Summary
If, under this assistance, the total potential coal markets are secured it should provide a movement of nearly 1,800,000 tons of Canadian coal at a cost of approximately $2,000,-
000.
That extends until the year 1033, as will be indicated further as we progress.
Shipment of Alberta coal to Ontario at $6.75 freight rate
Order in council P.C. 439, approved 16th March, 1928, authorizing $6.75 rate for seasonal movements of coal from Alberta to Ontario for not less than three months in each year during a period of three years.
Provisions were extended for another year by P.C. 1268 of 5th June, 1930.
Cost to
Tonnage Shipped Government
	 '32,101	$47,509 50
	 37,115	82,390 55
	 26,156	No payments as yet
	 12,167	No payments as yet
Provisions have been made for a continuous movement from August 1, 1931, to March 15, 1932.
Findings of Cost by Railway Board In respect of the 1928 movement the Board of Railway Commissioners reported that pay-

ments were to be made by the Government on the cost basis of $8.23 per ton, making $1.48 per ton as the amount to be paid by the government to the railways.
With respect to the 1929 movement the railway board's finding was on the cost basis

The Budget-Mr. Bennett
of $8.97 per ton, making $2.22 per ton as the amount to be paid by the government.
No decision has been handed down for the 1930 movement.
The third matter to which attention might be directed is that touching the movement of wheat. There has been a succession of bad harvests in some parts of western Canada, and during the last few weeks lack of moisture-I speak subject to correction, I hope- has caused a loss of this year's prospective crop in a great deal of that area. My advices by telephone were that very few days would determine the fate of a considerable portion of the crop. In some parts of the country this is the third crop failure and the reserves of the people are entirely exhausted. Two things must happen:	First, provision
should be made to assist those who have a crop, because they have considerable obligations, taxes, etc., which must be discharged. Other methods will be taken to deal with the situation of the provinces which are not in a position to assist those who with their reserves exhausted and their crops a failure for the third time are practically ruined. We therefore propose to provide that the freight rates shall be adjusted by this country absorbing five cents per bushel on all wheat that is exported of the crop of this year. That provision is effective this year. That amount is taken into consideration in the estimates I have given of the expenditures for the year.
We propose therefore to indicate now to the house the methods to be adopted for the purpose of raising necessary revenue to meet expenditures. We believe that if the revenues show any appreciable expansion the budget will be balanced at the end of the year. At the most however the expenditures which will be called upon to be met by short date treasury bill transactions will amount to less than $10,000,000. I thus come to the ways and means by which we propose to make good the supply.
Two principles have to be borne in mind; the first is that however tempting the field may be, in a period of great depression departure from known practised methods of taxation should be as slight as possible. In other words there should be as little dislocation of business as possible and the taxes imposed should be those with which the people are familiar. The second is that taxes should be as light as possible having regard to the conditions which prevail. One of the paradoxes of a situation such as the present one is that when money is required, most,
the people are least capable of paying it in the form of taxation. That is the condition found in periods of universal depression.
Applying these rules first of all we take up customs duties, or the tariff. By this government the tariff is used for the purposes I have indicated. I should have liked to have a complete revision of the tariff, as I indicated at the short session would take place. However circumstances and conditions over which we had no control made such a revision impossible at the present moment. With that in mind we have undertaken revision of only such items as it was necessary to deal with to ensure the maximum of employment by reason of the operation of the new rates. A similar result was obtained by our action during the last session. I pause at this time to ask hon. members opposite what the condition of this country would have been had there been no short session. I just put that question to my hon. friends. The number of items with which we have dealt and which deal with rate-making included in the resolutions number about two hundred. A feature of the amendments is a provision for the collection of duty by which we follow the modern practice adopted in other countries whereby for duty purposes containers are treated as contents. That provision applies to cheese, powdered milk, macaroni, dried fruits, soap and the like. In almost every case, with only two or three exceptions, changes of rates are confined to the intermediate and general tariffs; in other words, the British preference has been left untouched. In connection with agricultural and other food products there are increases under the intermediate or general tariff, or both, in respect to numerous commodities. The more noticeable items in this class are live hogs, fresh meats, bacons, hams and shoulders; shell eggs, cheese, hops, powdered milk; peas, Indian corn, hay; field, root and garden seeds; canned fruit and vegetables, raisins, oranges.
Another item which has involved much discussion is that concerning the automobile industry. Hon. members will recall that a few weeks ago certain changes were made in the automobile schedule under an order in council which provided that the discount to dealers should not exceed 20 per cent for duty purposes. As is known, automobiles subject to duty at the present time are divided into two classes, those valued up to $1,200 and those ranging from that figure upward. We propose for duty purposes to divide automobiles into three classes: first those valued up
[Stage Direction]
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
to SI,200, second, from SI,201 to $2,100, and third, above $2,100. In connection with the first named class there are no changes in duties. In connection with the second group the general tariff is increased from 27J per cent to 30 per cent. On the third group the intermediate and general rates are increased to 30 and 40 per cent respectively. The automobiles in this latter group are what my hon. friend's refer to as luxury cars.
Now I come to the question of drawbacks. It will be recalled that on more than one occasion the hon. member for Macleod (Mr. Coote) pointed out that the drawback of 25 per cent on all the imported commodities which went into the production of an automobile operated, if at all, unfairly on Canadian industry. What we propose to do is this: first, the drawback shall not in any event exceed 60 per cent, and second, the drawback shall not apply to commodities which I shall hereafter enumerate. As indicating the extent to which this country has made progress in the way of developing its industries I should like the house to consider the items upon which drawbacks will not be granted. The articles to which I have referred are as follows:
Rubber tires; wheel rims; wheels, including hubs and drums; tire carriers; tire covers; wheel carriers; brakes, service and emergency; brake linings; brake pedals and operating levers; chassis springs, between frame and axles; shock absorbers, chassis frames; front axles, forged type only; clutch and clutch pedals; universal joints; propeller shafts; transmissions; gear shift levers; rear valves, except banjo housings; radiator cores; exhaust pipes; mufflers; gasoline tanks; running boards and covers; front and rear fenders; bumpers and bumperettes; steering gears; head and tail lights, not including lenses; dome lamps; electric light globes; electric wiring and cable; spark plugs; batteries, starting motors; electric generators; drag links; motor fans; motor fan belts; thrust bearings, ball or plain; motor hoods, sheet metal; motor hood clamps; anti-squeak braids and strips; moulded rubber parts; lubrication fittings; wheel hub caps; sand castings; drop rolled or pressed forgings; bolts, nuts, screws, tacks and studs; head pins and clevis; cotter pins; plain washers; coil springs and seat springs; wood frames for bodies; rubber and pyroxilin covered or doubled top fabrics and curtains; windshields complete; upholstering fabrics and materials other than printed fabrics; rubber tubing and windlaces; floor boards; carpets;

window shades; paints and varnishes and solder; stampings of all kinds other than radiator shells, and cowls and body stampings; tool kit equipment, including jacks; robe rails and foot rests; curtain and carpet fasteners; rear view mirrors; gear shift lever knobs; felt parts; clocks, stem winding; window finishing strips.
The list I have given comprises items made in Canada and which it is proposed shall hereafter be used in manufacturing automobiles if duty agreements are not to be made. Canadian manufactured cars using those parts will not receive any drawback, with respect to the other items which have to be used to produce cars in this country the drawback will be 60 peir cent instead of 25 per cent.
Closely associated with the automobile question is that of used automobiles. Endeavours to dump such cars into this country have been very noticeable during the last few months. We propose to place used automobiles on the prohibited list, hereafter no used automobiles will be imported into Canada except as settlers' effects or travellers' vehicles.
We come now to another item which will greatly interest the house, I am sure-that is coal. It is proposed to impose a duty of 40 cents per ton on anthracite coal and $1 on coke under the general tariff-free under British preferential tariff. It is proposed that the rate on bituminous coal and coal screenings shall be raised to 75.cents per ton, and that the general tariff rate on charcoal be $7.50 per ton.
The leather schedule secures increased rates under all tariffs, the alterations affecting kid, upper leathers, sole leathers, East India kips, belting leather and belting, glove leathers and leather garments.
We come now to another matter which has been given much attention by legislators during the last twenty^five years, namely, the importation of magazines and periodicals. I was told the other day that at one newsstand there were 350 different magazines and newspapers on sale. As to a very large number of them, certainly some people would be better off if they did not read them.
An hon. MEMBER:: All people.


Richard Bedford Bennett: Yes, all people. We therefore propose that magazines and periodicals shall be made subject to a specific duty of 15 cents per pound, under the general tariff, except in the case of such as may be placed on an exempted list by order in council. At the present time the censor undertakes to exercise some control over these matters-a control

The Budget-Mr. Bennett
that at times has been more or less difficult. That provision of the tariff as to prohibition of the importation of such publications will remain as at present. Under the direction of the governor in council magazines for educational and scientific and religious purposes will be allowed to enter free.
Tariff changes affecting iron and steel include increases on steel plate, wire netting, machinery, safes and miscellaneous manufactures of iron and steel, with decreases on green saw steel, hot rolled strip steel for cold rolling, various kinds of steel wires and bessemer steel billets.
One of the items that I mentioned in September last about which there has been much discussion in this country is furniture. Last summer I had an opportunity to see many of the furniture factories of this country I found that they were working a very limited time per day but making quite as good furniture as is made in any part of the world, if not better-


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Hear, hear.


Richard Bedford Bennett: -but they were subject to dumping competition that certainly was interfering with their trade. We propose to make some slight change in that regard, particularly with respect to furniture, including metal furniture, veneers, ply wood, clothespins, golf clubs, tennis rackets, and so on.
The textile schedules are limited, and the changes very few, the significant one being increases on linen fabrics and articles, excepting damasks, all of which are made in Canada. Damasks,-a tariff on which might affect the trade of northern Ireland-have not been touched. We propose to see that there shall be no increase in price, but that the Canadian industries shall have an opportunity to com-'pete fairly with their competitors. The changes also involve increased tariffs on fabrics of pure silk, with decreases on mohair yarns. With respect to pure silk, we desire to protect our manufacturers from competition with dumped silk from abroad which is sent in here at almost any price. Our silks are the equal of any made in the world; in fact a branch factory in this country is a subsidiary of a company that employs some 50,000 people in the United States.
Prepared roofings, wallboards, insulating materials, and so on, are increased in rates, as are wallpapers and containers.
Building stone of all kinds, both rough and finished, as well as building brick, magnesite and ground feldspar, will bear higher rates than formerly.
No changes are made in respect of farm implements, although the item covering repair parts is extended in point of time. That is, when we increased the duty last year on agricultural implements, we found there were certain repair parts made by companies that had no factory in Canada. I am happy to say they are likely to open one at no distant date. In the meantime parts to repair their machines will continue to come in under the old tariff for another year.
The tariff on clocks and watches is revised, the rate being increased, and provision is made for increases on window glass and laminated glass. I should think there would now be a noise on the other side of the house.
The tea schedule is radically revised, the former free entry of bulk teas under the British preferential tariff being cancelled and replaced by rates of 4 cents, 8 cents, and 8 cents per pound on teas imported direct from place of growth or imported from the United Kingdom, and rates of 10 cents, 10 cents, and 10 cents per pound on teas otherwise imported. It will probably be remembered that at [DOT] the last general session one item only in the tea schedule was touched, and that tea unless it came in in packages of a certain weight was still subj ect to a high tariff; it was made free in respect to other packages. It is now proposed to revise that schedule by placing a duty of 4 cents and leaving the rates for other tea items just as they stood, except as to making the tariff applicable to all packages regardless of their weight.
The rates on the so-called "basket" item, that is, the rates covering everything not specified, has been increased to 25 per cent. That is only in keeping with the conditions now obtaining throughout the world.
. I have given the principles which govern the application of the tariff to protect Canadians. I put this question to every member of this house: Can Canada in a protected world be other than a protected country?


Mr. YOUNG:: Yes.


Richard Bedford Bennett: Then if that be so it
merely means that we are inviting all the protected countries of the world to destroy our own. There is no gainsaying that. It is an unfortunate thing perhaps, but it is true that all the countries of the world are now protected countries, and Canadian products may find access to their markets only by paying very high tolls. Can this country afford to be an unprotected country against the competition of the protected countries of the world?

The Budget-Mr. Bennett


Some hon. MEMBERS:: No.


Richard Bedford Bennett: We have answered that
question in the way I have indicated, and by that answer we stand or fall. By the application of this tariff we are of the opinion that we shall receive substantially increased revenues as I have indicated in the table I have just given to the house.
I next pass to the income tax. We propose to raise additional revenue by increasing the rate on corporations from 8 to 10 per cent- an increase of 2 per cent. The United States rate at the present time is 12 per cent. That additional 2 per cent we will make payable between now and December, free of interest, on the present tax returns. That, we believe, will yield us an additional $8,000,000.
We also propose that there shall be a modification of the present income tax by providing that a 2 per cent rate shall be levied on the returns of all investments made by nonresidents in this country. All other countries of which I am aware have such a tax, usually higher than 2 per cent; but in order to attract, if it be necessary, additional capital to this country for safe investment, we are asking that the rate be only 2 per cent. In other words, those from abroad who have formed companies here or put their moneys in trust companies for investment will contribute to our revenue 2 per cent of such income derived from their Canadian investments. We believe that is not an unreasonable rate, to charge under existing conditions, being, as I have said, somewhat less than that obtaining in other countries. I am reminded by my friend the Minister of National Revenue (Mr. Ryekman) that those who pay on their Canadian income 2 per cent will receive credit in their own country, wherever it may be, so far as we are able to ascertain, certainly in Great Britain, France and the United States-for the. tax thus paid in this country upon production of satisfactory evidence that it has been paid. That is the principle adapted by other countries; on investments made in Great Britain by Canadians the tax paid is credited against their tax bill in this country when they come to pay their income tax.
I may add that it is proposed also during the present session entirely to amend the Income Tax Act. Family corporations will be abolished; it is about time. In addition to that we propose to present a new schedule, of rates based upon the experience of the commissioner of taxation. Mr. Walters was asked to prepare, with the aid of his officials, what he. conceived to be a proper tax rate for this

country, having regard to known conditions. He has done so, and the government proposes to adopt his recommendations. The exemptions will be somewhat increased, but it is thought desirable that the rate should start at one per cent, with another one per cent added with each additional $1,000 of income until the maximum is reached, which will be 25 per cent. In other words, on the larger incomes 25 cents out of each dollar will be paid to the state.
It may amaze the house, to learn-and perhaps it will be interesting to hon. members, as it was to me-that the amount of income tax collected in this country since the tax first was put on the statute books, including the business profits war tax, has reached the huge sum of $902,000,000 collected at a cost of $24,000,000. The rate I have mentioned is a little, but not much, greater than the rate prevailing in the United States. There the exemption is $1,500 for unmarried persons and $3,500 for married persons. On the first $4,000 of income the rate is 1J per cent; on the next $4,000 the rate is 3 per cent, and on the balance the rate is 5 per cent, with a surtax to a maximum of 20 per cent on incomes in excess of $10,000.
In addition it is proposed that dividends from Canadian corporations, up to $10,000, shall be exempt from taxation, to the extent of one-half the income of the taxpayer. In other words, if a man has an income of $20,000 per annum, of which $10,000 is derived as dividends from Canadian corporations, he will not pay a second tax on his dividends, because it has already been paid through the tax paid by the company. That was the law at one time and still is the law in most countries. The limit, however, is $10,000, and the exemption granted shall not in any case exceed one-half of the total income of the taxpayer. If a taxpayer has an income of $30,000 he will be able to obtain credit only for $10,000 of Canadian dividends.


Charles Gavan Power: May I ask when these
changes will come into effect?


Richard Bedford Bennett: On the 1st day of July; I was just coming to that. The first item I mentioned, that is, the two per cent additional which corporations must pay, will be between now and December 31, with interest, and the other items will become effective on the 1st day of July. The new act will be introduced for the purpose of dealing with next year's taxes. There will be no change in the present individual rates; they will remain for the current year.

The Budget-Mr. Bennett
I pointed out a moment ago that the Post Office Department has a very substantial deficit. We propose to meet that deficit first of all by adding one cent to the postage rate. That is, the tax is one cent, as it was and is on drop letters, the full rate being two cents, one cent for postage and one cent for tax. We propose to make that of universal application and put back the one cent tax where if was before it was taken off a few years ago. It will be recalled that the government of Great Britain declined to reduce the postal rate in that country from three cents because the revenue was required. The Prime Minister of Australia told me this rate was required also in Australia in order to balance their postal budget. So we propose to obtain the additional revenue by adding the one cent tax, which is now applicable only to drop letters in the city, making the rate three cents in the one case and two cents in the other.
We also propose that the Post Office Department, which every year has lost millions of dollars in the transportation of newspapers and magazines, now shall be reimbursed as far as it is possible to do so, by the payment first of all of a cent and a half per pound instead of one cent per pound on all newspapers and periodicals having a net circulation in excess of ten thousand. The first ten thousand will carry the present rate of one cent, and the weekly newspapers will continue to be carried at the rate in force at this time. The new rate will be one and a half cents, subject to the exception of religious, agricultural, scientific and educational papers and magazines. By these methods we believe we will make nearly a balanced budget of the Post Office Department.
We have then added an additional one per cent special excise tax on all imports that pass through the customs of the country, free or otherwise. That is a special excise tax of one per cent on the invoice price passed by the customs. We have also provided for increase of an additional three per cent in the sales tax. This will put it back where it was some years ago, as hon. members will recall. Last year it was reduced one per cent, and one per cent reductions have been made in other years. We are putting it back to four per cent, adding three per cent to the present rate.
We believe that, with one more addition, these changes will provide a very substantial increase in our revenue. I refer to the stamp tax on cheques. You will recall that the law now provides that cheques for an amount of less than S10 pay no tax, while cheques for 22110-1381
over $10 pay two cents. Many people who receive their embossed cheque books have been in the habit of not differentiating between cheques for less than $10 and cheques for more than that amount. It is now proposed that all cheques shall pay two cents, as it is in England. Probably the embossed cheque will enable everyone supplied with cheque books by the banks to carry on their banking operations without inconvenience, and this will add greatly to the revenue of the country. Referring back to the sales tax for a moment, of course that tax is subject to exemptions, which are somewhat circumscribed as compared to those now provided.
Sir, I think it will be agreed that the record of the performance of the Canadian people during the last fifty or sixty years is such as to command the pride of every Canadian and the admiration of most people throughout the world. We now face a period of world wide depression, and it becomes important for us to face what lies before us with courage, with determination and with faith. I am sure there is no Canadian who has not sufficient faith in his country to believe that we cannot fail in building up a great nation; I am sure there is no Canadian who does not realize that to do so we must have not only faith but courage, persistence and determination. Above all we must have that unity of thought and purpose which is so essential at a time like this. Differences of political opinion we can readily understand, but there is a side to the lives of all of us which is not purely political. We are citizens of a great Dominion, and I think we can with fairness-and I trust with a great deal of assurance -appeal to all Canadians regardless of their political views, to unite in the common purpose of insuring that this country, in the greatest trial it has ever had in peace time, does not fail. It must not fail; and if I read a few words which I have extracted from the Chronicles of the Pilgrim Fathers, written over three hundred years ago, I think the house will agree with me that they truly indicate the attitude of mind which we Canadians should all take to the problems that confront us. With these words I will conclude what I have to say:
It wonderfully eneourageth men in their duties, when they see the burthen equally borne; but when some withdraw themselves, and retire to their own particular ease, pleasure, or profit, what heart can men have to go on in their business? When men are come together to lift some weighty piece of timber, or vessel, if one stand still and do not lift, shall not the rest be weakened and disheartened? Will not a few idle drones spoil the whole stock of
The Budget-Mr. Bennett

laborious bees? So one idle belly, one murmurer, one eomplainer, one self-lover, will weaken and dishearten a whole colony. Great matters have been brought to pass, where men have cheerfully, as with one heart, hand and shoulder, gone about it, both in wars, buildings and plantations; but where every man seeks himself, all cometh to nothing.
These words were written some three hundred and ten years ago at a time of great strain and stress in the new colony that had been founded by the efforts and labours of those who, coming out from the old country, landed at or near Plymouth. They are applicable to-day; and if many of the observations I have made are highly disputatious, as they may be, I feel quite certain that in this great crisis that now faces us, men will not for a single moment be governed and guided entirely by political considerations but rather that they will have an enduring faith in their country, a courage and determination that it shall not fail in the great task in which we are engaged, and that all Canadians, men and women of good will, will unite for the common purpose of advancing the common interest of all our citizens.
I beg to give notice that when the house resolves itself into committee, I shall move the following resolutions:
The Minister of Finance, in Committee ot Ways and Means:
Resolved, That it is expedient to amend the Income War Tax Act and to provide:-
1.	That the rate of income tax applicable to the income of corporations and joint stock companies for the year one thousand nine hundred and thirty and thereafter, be increased from eight per centum to ten per centum.
Resolved, That it is expedient to amend and consolidate the Income War Tax Act and to provide:-
1.	That the Consolidated Act be known as the Income Tax Act (1931) Consolidated;
2.	That the exemption for persons presently entitled to three thousand dollars be raised to an exemption of three thousand five hundred dollars;
3.	That the provisions relating to family corporations and personal corporations be repealed;
4.	That in respect of fiscal periods not coincident -with the calendar year the return of income and payment of the tax may be made within four months from the close of the fiscal period and if not so made and paid interest on the tax payable therefrom shall be paid to the thirtieth day of April in the next succeeding calendar year at the rate of six per centum per annum; or to the time of the filing of the return and payment of tax, should such filing and payment be made before the said thirtieth April but in any case the return must be made on or before the thirtieth day of April in the next succeeding calendar year;
5.	That income, by way of dividends, rentals, interest, royalties or other like income not
[Mr. disclosed by the taxpayer in his return of income shall be added to the other income of the taxpayer in double the amount and the whole taxed under the provisions of the act;
6.	That net dividends from Canadian companies liable to corporation tax to the extent of one-half of the taxable income of a taxpayer, shall be exempt from tax up to ten thousand dollars thereof, provided that the exemption shall be allocated, in calculating the tax payable, five hundred dollars to each successive tax rate as in the first schedule to the act provided, commencing with the lowest rate and bracket of income of one per centum until like successive allocations of the dividend income, or fraction thereof, shall have exhausted the dividend exemption provided for;
7.	That a tax of two per centum be collected at the source on dividends payable to nonresident shareholders, such deduction to be effected by the companies paying the dividend or trustees receiving the dividend for and on behalf of non-resident persons. The tax shall be deducted at the time of the paying of the dividend by the company or on receipt of the dividend by the trustee and within thirty days thereafter paid to the Receiver General of Canada. Failure to remit the tax deducted shall render the company or trustee personally liable to interest thereon from the date when it should have been paid to the date of payment at the rate of six per centum per annum. Failure to deduct the tax shall render the company or receiving trustee personally liable for the tax which should have been deducted, together with interest thereon at six per centum per annum until paid.
8.	That when the assets or shares of a company, having on hand undistributed income at the end of one thousand nine hundred and twenty-nine, are sold directly or through an intermediary to a company, wdiieh company issues shares, bonds, notes or other like documents as fully paid up by capitalizing the said undistributed income, then on the redemption of such documents the company redeeming shall pay a tax of four per centum on the amount of such documents redeemed.
9.	That in respect of the income for the year one thousand nine hundred and thirty-one and each year thereafter the rates of tax at present imposed on individuals be repealed and the following substituted in lieu thereof:-
"On the first $1,000 or any portion thereof, 1 per centum;
On the amount in excess of $1,000 but not in excess of $2,000, 2 per centum;" and so forth to-
"On the amount in excess of $24,000, 25 per centum."
(See statement attached).
10.	These resolutions shall be applicable to the income of the taxation period one thousand nine hundred and thirty-one, with the exception of resolution numbered seven, which shall come into force on the first day of July, one thousand nine hundred and thirty-one.
First Schedule
Rates of Tax Applicable to Persons other than Corporations and Joint Stock Companies
On the first $1,000 or any portion thereof, 1 per centum;
On the amount in excess of $1,000 but not in excess of $2,000, 2 per centum;

The Budget-Mr. Bennett
On the amount in excess of $2,000 but n excess of $3,000, 3 per centum;
On the amount in excess of $3,000 but n excess of $4,000, 4 per centum;
On the amount in excess of $4,000 but n excess of $5,000, 5 per centum;
On the amount in excess of $5,000 but n excess of $6,000, 6 per centum;
On the amount in excess of $6,000 but n excess of $7,000, 7 per centum;
On the amount in excess of $7,000 but n excess of $8,000, 8 per centum;
On the amount in excess of $8,000 but n excess of $9,000, 9 per centum;
On the amount in in excess of $10,000, On the amount in in excess of $11,000, On the amount in in excess of $12,000, On the amount in in excess of $13,000, On the amount in in excess of $14,000, On the amount in in excess of $15,000, On the amount in in excess of $16,000, On the amount in in excess of $17,000, On the amount in in excess of $18,000, On the amount in in excess of $19,000, On the amount in in excess of $20,000, On the amount in in excess of $21,000, On the amount in in excess of $22,000, On the amount in ill excess of $23,000, On the amount in in excess of $24,000,
On the amount in centum.
excess	of $9,000	but
10 per	centum;	
excess	of $10,000	but
11 per	centum;	
excess	of $11,000	but
12 per	centum;	
excess	of $12,000	but
13 per	centum;	
excess	of $13,000	but
14 per	centum;	
excess	of $14,000	but
15 per	centum ;	
excess	of $15,000	but
16 per	centum;	
excess	of $16,000	but
17 per	centum;	
excess	of $17,000	but
18 per	centum;	
excess	of $18,000	but
19 per	centum;	
excess	of $19,000	but
20 per	centum;	
excess	of $20,000	but
21 per	centum;	
excess	of $21,000	but
22 per	centum;	
excess	of $22,000	but
23 per	centum;	
excess	of $23,000	but
24 per	centum;	
excess	of $24,000.	, 25
not
not
not
not
not
not
not
not
not
not
not
not
not
not
not
not
not
not
not
not
not
not
per
Resolved, That it is expedient to introduce a measure to amend the Special War Revenue Act and to provide:
That in addition to the tax imposed by Part XIII of the said Act, a Special Excise Tax ol 1 per cent be imposed, levied and collected 91* duty paid value of all goods imported into Canada, payable by the importer or transferee who takes the goods out of bond for consumption, at the time when the goods are imported, or taken out of warehouse for consumption.
Resolved, further, that any enactment founded on the foregoing resolution shall be deemed to have come into force on the first day of June, one thousand nine hundred and thirty-one; and to have applied to all goods mentioned in the foregoing resolution imported or taken out of warehouse for consumption on and after that date and to have applied to goods previously
imported for consumption for which no entry for consumption was made before that day.
Provided, however, that the said tax shall not apply to goods, the duty paid value of which does not exceed twenty-five dollars, unless more than one entry of such goods be made by one importer at one time from one source, in which case the tax shall be applicable;
Provided, further, that this tax shall not apply to articles on which other excise taxes are imposed by Part XI of the said act, nor to British and Canadian coin and foreign gold coin, to donations of clothing for charitable purposes, nor to goods enumerated in customs tariff items 700, 702, 703, 704, 705, 705a, 706 and 707, but shall apply to all other articles of whatsoever nature, which are imported.
That schedule I of the said act be amended by adding thereto:

Boats, yachts, and motor boats, 5 per cent;
Provided that the tax shall not apply on such boats, yachts, and motor boats upon proof satisfactory to the Minister being produced that these articles will be used for trading or commercial purposes exclusively. This exemption not to apply to these goods when sold to boat liveries or other persons for hire or rental.
That section 86 of the said act be amended by providing that the rate of consumption or sales tax be increased to four per cent;
That the said tax shall apply to sales and deliveries, and that the purchaser shall be furnished with a written invoice of any sale, which invoice shall state separately the amount of -such tax, and the tax shall be payable by the purchaser to the licensed vendor and by the licensed vendor to His Majesty, but, in the event that such licensed vendor fails to collect the said tax, it shall be payable by him to His Majesty in accordance with the provisions of section 106 of the said act.
That provision be made whereby all wholesalers will be required to be licensed under the act, and to account for the consumption or sales tax on their sales, excepting those otherwise exempted by the said act.
That the provisions of section 88 of the said act, and all orders in council providing for the payment of 50 per cent of the rate of consumption or sales tax imposed on certain goods, be repealed.
That schedule III of the said act is hereby repealed and the following substituted therefor:
Schedule III
Bread;
Flour, including self-raising flour, oatmeal, rolled oats and cornmeal;
Rolled wheat, buckwheat meal and pea meal;
Animals living;
Live poultry;
Meats and poultry, fresh;
Milk, including buttermilk;
Cream;
Butter;
Cheese;
Lard;
Eggs;
Vegetables, fruits, grains and seeds in their natural state;
Bran, shorts, middlings, alfalfa meal;
Oil cake, oil cake meal;
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Grains mixed or crushed for cattle or poultry feed;
Hay, straw;
Nursery stock;
Manuscript;
Bees;
Honey;
Sugar;
Molasses;
Maple syrup;
Corn syrup;
Salt;	.	.	,
Other farm produce sold by the individual farmer of his own production;
Ice;
Fish and products thereof not canned or medicated;
Ores of metals of all kinds;
Fuel of all kinds, not to include fuel for use in internal combustion engines;
Gold and silver in ingots, blocks, bars, drops, sheets or plates unmanufactured;	_
British and Canadian coin and foreign gold coin;
Logs and round unmanufactured timber;
Fence posts, railroad ties, pulpwood, tan bark, and other articles the product of the forest, when produced and sold by the individual settler or farmer;
Newspapers and quarterly, monthly and semimonthly magazines and weekly literary papers unbound;
Radium;
Electricity;	,
Gas manufactured from coal, calcium carbide or oil for illuminating or heating purposes;
Artificial limbs, and parts thereof;
Artificial eyes;
Donations of clothing and books for charitable purposes;
Settlers' effects;
War veterans' badges;
Memorials or monuments erected in memory of soldiers who fell in the Great war;
Articles imported for the use of the governor general;
Articles imported for the personal or official use of the High Commissioner for the United Kingdom in Canada, ministers of foreign countries or consuls general who are natives or citizens of the country they represent and who are not engaged in any other business or profession;
Fertilizers;
Raw furs;
Wool not further prepared than washed;
Insulin;
Calf, cattle, hog or poultry feed;
Cream separators and parts thereof;
Vegetable plants;
Pot barley;
Pearl barley;
Split peas;
Barley meal;
Woollen rolls or wool yarn milled for a producer of wool from such wool supplied by him for his own use;
Bakers' cake and pies, not to include biscuits;
Official stationery imported by His Majesty's Trade Commissioners in Canada from His Majesty's Stationery Office in England;
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Crushed stone, sand, gravel or rubble, produced or manufactured by any municipality exclusively for use in building or maintaining its roads or sidewalks, and not for sale.
Bibles, missals, prayer-books, psalm and hymn books, religious tracts, and Sunday school lesson pictures.
Bells, when imported for use in churches only.
Apples, dried, desiccated or evaporated.
Goods enumerated in customs tariff items

173. Books, embossed, and grooved cards for the blind; and books for the instruction of the deaf and dumb and blind; maps and charts for the use of schools for the blind;
409a. Milking machines and attachments therefor; centrifugal machines for testing butter fat, milk or cream; pasteurizers for dairying purposes; complete parts of all the foregoing;
409b. Cultivators, harrows, seed-drills, horse-rakes, horse-hoes, scufflers, manure spreaders, garden seeders, weeders, and complete parts of all the foregoing;
409c. Ploughs: farm, field, lawn or garden roller; soil packers; complete parts of all the foregoing;
409d. Mowing machines, harvesters, either self-binding or without binders, binding attachments, reapers, harvesters in combination with threshing machine separators including the motive power incorporated therein, and complete parts of all the foregoing;
409e. Spraying and dusting machines and attachments therefor, including hand sprayers for farm purposes only; animal dehorning instruments: fruit or vegetable grading machines and attachments therefor; apparatus specially designed for sterilizing bulbs; pressure testing apparatus for determining maturity of fruit; pruning hooks; pruning shears; and complete parts of all the foregoing;
409f. Hay loaders, hay tedders, potato planters, potato diggers, fodder or feed cutters, ensilage cutters, grain crushers and grain or hay grinders for farm purposes only, post hole diggers, snaths, stumping machines and all other agricultural implements or agricultural machinery, n.o.p., and complete parts of all the foregoing;
409g. Incubators for hatching eggs, brooders for rearing young fowl, and complete parts of all the foregoing;
409j. Fanning mills; peaviners: corn husking machines; threshing machine separators, including wind stackers, baggers, weighers and selffeeders therefor; complete parts of all the foregoing;
409k. Windmills and complete parts thereof, not including shafting;
409n. Portable engines with boilers, in combination, for farm purposes; horse powers and traction engines for farm purposes, n.o.p.; and complete parts of all the foregoing;
409o. Equipment for generating electric power for farm purposes only, viz.:	engine,
gas tank, generator, storage battery, and switch-board; and complete parts of all the foregoing;

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439c. Farm wagons, farm sleds, logging wagons, logging sleds, and complete parts thereof;
439d. Freight wagons, drays, sleighs, n.o.p., and complete parts thereof;
464. Steel dies, of a class or kind not made in Canada, valued at not less than one thousand dollars each, for use exclusively in stamping metal sheets or metal plates. . . . Provided that such dies sha-ll be exported from Canada under customs supervision within three months from the date of import entry;
480. Crutches or specially constructed staffs for cripples;
538. Binder twine or twine for harvest binders;
695a. Paintings in oil or water colours and pastels, valued at not less than twenty dollars each; paintings and sculptures by artists domiciled in Canada but residing temporarily abroad for purposes of study, under regulations by the minister;
700.	Animals and articles brought into Canada temporarily and for a period not exceeding three months, for the purpose of exhibition or of competition for prizes offered by any agricultural or other association. . . . Provided a bond shall be first given in accordance with regulations prescribed by the minister, with the condition that the full duty to which such animals or articles would otherwise be liable shall be paid in case of their sale in Canada or if not reexported within the time specified in such bond;
701.	Menageries, horses, cattle, carriages and harness of, under regulations prescribed by the minister;
702.	Carriages for travellers, and carriages laden with merchandise, not to include circus troupes or hawkers, under regulations prescribed by the minister;
703.	Travellers' baggage, under regulations prescribed by the minister;
704.	Apparel, wearing and other personal and household effects, not merchandise, of British subjects dying abroad, but domiciled in Canada; books, pictures, family plate or furniture, personal effects and heirlooms left by bequest;
Articles admitted to free entry under customs tariff item-
692. Coins, cabinets of; collections of medals and collections of postage stamps; medals of gold, silver or copper, and other metallic articles actually bestowed as trophies or prizes and received and accepted as honorary distinctions. and cups or other metallic prizes (not usual merchantable commodities) won in bona fide competitions;
That any enactment founded on the foregoing resolutions shall come into force on the first day of June, one thousand nine hundred and thirty-one.
Resolved, That it is expedient to amend the Special War Revenue Act, chapter one hundred and seventy-nine of the revised statutes of Canada, 1927, as amended by chapter fifty of
the statutes of 1928, chapter fifty-seven of the statutes of 1929 and chapter forty-three of the statutes of 1930, and to provide:-
1.	That every insurance company, other than life and marine insurance companies and fraternal benefit societies, shall pay for consolidated revenue fund a tax of one per centum upon the net premiums received by the company in Canada, on and after the first day of October, 1931.
2.	That every person resident in Canada who insures or has insured his property situate in Canada, or any property situate in Canada in which he has an insurable interest, other than that of an insurer of such property, with any British or foreign company, association of persons or underwriters not licensed under the provisions of the Insurance Act to transact business in Canada, shall, on or before the first day of March in each year, pay for consolidated revenue fund, a tax of fifteen per centum of the gross premiums payable during the preceding calendar year by such person for such insurance effected or in force on or after the first day of October, 1931.
Resolved, That it is expedient to introduce a measure to amend the Special War Revenue Act, chapter one hundred and seventy-nine of the revised statutes, and to provide that the stamp tax on each cheque, receipt for money paid by a bank, money order, traveller's cheque, or post office money order shall be two cents, and that the stamp tax on each postal note issued shall be one cent; thereby removing the exemption from stamp taxes of such instruments issued for amounts not exceeding ten dollars, provided for in parts six, eight and nine of the said act.
Resolved, That it is expedient to introduce a measure to amend section seventy-one of the Special War Revenue Act, chapter one hundred and seventy-nine of the revised statutes, and to provide that there shall be levied and collected on every letter for transmission by post for any distance within Canada a tax of one cent, in addition to postage payable.
Resolved, That it is expedient to amend the Post Office Act, chapter one hundred and sixty-one of the revised statutes of Canada, 1927, and to provide:-
That subsection three of section twenty-three of the said act be repealed and the following substituted therefor:-
(3) Newspapers and periodicals which are required to be transmitted for a greater distance than is mentioned in the last preceding subsection, or the publication of which is of greater frequency than once a week, and the newspapers and periodicals described in the immediately preceding subsection, upon any copies in excess of the circulation of two thousand five hundred copies, shall be subject to postage at the rate of one and one-half cents on and after the first day of July, one thousand nine hundred and thirty-one,
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for each pound weight or any fraction of a pound weight, and such postage shall be prepaid by postage stamps or otherwise as the Postmaster General from time to time directs; provided that the newspapers and periodicals in question which have a circulation of not more than ten thousand copies per issue shall remain subject to postage at the rate of one cent for each pound 'weight or any fraction of a pound weight as heretofore; provided, further, that the newspapers and periodicals in question which are devoted to religion, the sciences, or agriculture, shall remain subject to postage at the rate of one cent for each pound weight or any fraction of a pound weight as heretofore.
1.	Resolved. That it is expedient to amend the Customs Tariff, being chapter forty-four of the Revised Statutes of Canada, as amended by chapter thirteen of the Acts of 1930 (first Session), and chapter three of the Acts of 1930 (second Session), by repealing sections two to eighteen, inclusive, thereof and by substituting the following therefor:
"2. In this Act and in any other Act relating to the Customs, unless the context otherwise requires,
(a)	"free" in any one of the said tariff columns means that the goods opposite which the word appears, and to which the tariff in the said column applies, may be imported and taken out of warehouse for consumption in Canada, without duty;
(b)	"gallon" means an Imperial gallon;
(c)	"hoop, band and strip" when applied to iron or steel mean flat forms not more than fourteen inches in width and less than .1875 inch in thickness;
(d)	"in diameter" -when applied to pipes and tubes means the actual inside diameter;
(e)	"iron" includes "steel";
(f)	"M. ft." represents and has the meaning of the words "one thousand feet board measure";
(g)	"n.o.p." represents and has the meaning of the words "not otherwise provided for";
_ (h) "p.e.' in any one of the tariff columns in Schedule A to this Act represents and has the meaning of the words "per centum, ad valorem" ;
(i)	"plate" when applied to iron or steel means a rectangle, circle or sketch as cut in a plate mill, more than fourteen inches in width and .1875 inch or more in thickness, with variations from such thickness not exceeding . 015 inch;
(j)	"proof", "proof spirit" or "proof spirits", when applied to wines or spirits of any kind, means spirits of a strength equal to that of pure ethyl alcohol compounded with distilled water in such proportions that the resultant mixture shall at a temperature of sixty-two degrees Fahrenheit have a specific gravity of 0.9187 as compared with that of distilled water at the same temperature;
(k)	"rolled iron" or "rolled steel" means iron or steel hot rolled only;

(l)	"sheet" when applied to iron or steel means a rectangle more than fourteen inches in width and less than a plate in thickness;
(m)	"ton" means two thousand pounds avoirdupois.
2.	The expressions mentioned in section two of the Customs Act, whenever they occur herein or in any Act relating to the Customs, unless the context otherwise requires, have the meaning assigned to them respectively by the said section two; and any power conferred upon the Governor in Council by the Customs Act to transfer dutiable goods to the list of goods which may be imported free of duty or to reduce the rates of duty on dutiable goods is not hereby abrogated or impaired.
3.	Subject to the provisions of this Act and of the Customs Act, there shall be levied, collected and paid upon all goods enumerated, or referred to as not enumerated, in Schedule A to this Act, when such goods are imported into Canada or taken out of warehouse for consumption therein, the several rates of duties of Customs, if any, set opposite to each item respectively or charged on goods as not enumerated, in the column of the tariff applicable to the goods, subject to the following conditions, viz.:-
(a)	The rates of customs duties, if any, set forth in column (1), "British preferential tariff", shall apply to goods the produce or manufacture of the following British countries when conveyed without transhipment from a port of any British country enjoying the benefits of the British preferential tariff into a sea, lake or river port of Canada:

(i)	The United Kingdom,
(ii)	The British colony of Bermuda,
(iii)	The British colonies commonly called
the British West Indies, including the following:-
The Bahamas,
J amaica,
Turks and Caicos Islands,
The Leeward Islands (Antigua, St. Christopher-Nevis, Dominica, Montserrat and the Virgin Islands), The Windward Islands (Grenada, St. Vincent and St. Lucia), Barbados,
Trinidad and Tobago,
(iv)	British Guiana,
(v)	British India,
(vi)	Ceylon,
(vii)	Straits Settlements,
(viii)	New Zealand,
(ix)	Union of South Africa,
(x)	Southern Rhodesia,
(xi)	any other British colony or possession
admitted to the benefits of the British preferential tariff in Canada, in the manner hereinafter provided; Provided. hourever, that goods entitled to the benefits of the British preferential tariff shall be accorded such benefits when such goods are shipped on a through bill of lading consigned to a consignee in a specified port in Canada when such goods are transferred at a port in a British possession, and conveyed without further transhipment into a sea, lake or river port of Canada;
(b)	The rates of customs duties, if any, set forth in column (2), "Intermediate tariff,"


19S1
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shall apply to goods the produce or manufacture of any British or foreign country to which the benefits of such intermediate tariff shall have been extended in the manner hereafter provided, when imported direct from such foreign country or from a British country;
(c)	The rates of customs duties, if any, set forth in column (3), "General Tariff," shall apply to all goods not entitled to admission under the intermediate tariff or under thd British preferential tariff;
(d)	Proof of origin, as prescribed by the minister shall be furnished with the bill of entry at the custom-house for goods admitted to entry under any of the tariffs in Schedule A; and the decision of the Minister shall be final as to the tariff or surtax applicable in any case to imported goods by reason of their origin;
(e)	Goods for which entry is claimed under the intermediate tariff must be bona fide the produce or manufacture of a country which has been admitted to the benefits of the intermediate tariff;
(f)	Every manufactured article to be admitted under the British preferential tariff must be bona fide the manufacture of a British country entitled to the benefits of the British preferential tariff, and a substantial portion of the value of the manufactured article must have been produced by labour in one or more of such countries.
2.	The governor in council may make such regulations as are deemed necessary for carrying out the provisions of the several tariffs mentioned in this section.
"4. The governor in council may, by order in council,
(a)	from time to time, extend the benefit of the British preferential tariff to any British country not named in paragraph (a) of section three, and from and after the publication of such order in council in the Canada Gazette the British preferential tariff shall apply to goods the produce or manufacture of such British country, subject to the provisions of this Act;
(b)	from time to time, w-ithdraw the benefit of the British preferential tariff from any British country, other than the United Kingdom, which has received the said benefit, and from and after the publication of such order in the Canada Gazette, the general tariff or the intermediate tariff, as mentioned in the said order, shall apply to goods the produce or manufacture of such British country, subject to the provisions of this Act;
(c)	from time to time, extend the benefit of the British preferential tariff to any territory administered under a mandate of the League of Nations by any British country, to which British country the benefit of the British preferential tariff has been extended; and from and after the publication of such order in council in the Canada Gazette the British preferential tariff shall apply to goods the produce or manufacture of such territory, subject to the provisions of this Act;
(d)	from time to time, withdraw the benefit of the British preferential tariff from any territory administered under a mandate of the League of Nations which has received said benefit; and from and after the publication of such order in the Canada Gazette, the genera! tariff or the intermediate tariff, as mentioned
in the said order, shall apply to goods the produce or manufacture of such territory subject to the provisions of this Act;
(e)	from time to time, extend to any British country the benefit of rates of customs duties more favourable than those of the British preferential tariff, and from and after the publication of such order in the Canada Gazette, the rates of duties so ordered shall apply to goods the produce or manufacture of such British country, subject to the provisions of this Act;
(f)	from time to time, withdraw from any British country to -which they have been extended rates of customs duties more favourable than those of the British preferential tariff, and from and after the publication of such order in the Canada Gazette, the British preferential tariff or the intermediate tariff, as directed in the said order, shall apply to goods the produce or manufacture of such British country, subject to the provisions of this Act;
(g)	from time to time, extend the benefit of the intermediate tariff, in whole or in part, to any British or foreign country the produce or manufactures of which have previously been subject to the rates of customs duties set forth in the general tariff, and from and after the publication of such order in the Canada Gazette, the rates of duty set forth in the intermediate tariff, so far as they are mentioned in the said order, shall apply to goods the produce or manufacture of such British or foreign country, when imported direct from such foreign country or from a British country, subject to the provisions of this Act;
(h)	from time to time, withdraw the benefit of the intermediate tariff from any country to which it has been extended, and from and after the publication of such order in the Canada Gazette the rates of customs duties set forth in the general tariff shall apply to goods the produce or manufacture of such country, subject to the provisions of this Act.
"5. The importer of goods entitled _ to the benefits of the British preferential tariff shall be entitled to a discount of ten per centum on the amount of duty computed under such tariff, when such goods are conveyed without transhipment from a port of a country enjoying the benefits of the British preferential tariff into a sea, lake or river port of Canada.
2.	Goods entitled to the benefits of the British preferential tariff shall be entitled to the discount authorized by this section, when shipped on a through bill of lading consigned to a consignee in a specified port in Canada, when such goods are transferred at a port in a British possession and conveyed without further transhipment into a sea, lake or river port of Canada.
3.	The discount mentioned in this section shall not apply to duties on any of the following articles, viz., wines, malt liquors, spirits, spirituous liquors, liquid medicines and articles containing alcohol; sugar, tobacco, cigars and cigarettes.
4. The said discount shall not apply in the case in which the duty does not exceed fifteen per centum ad valorem, or, in the case of a specific duty or a specific and ad valorem duty combined in which the computed rate does not exceed fifteen per centum ad valorem, or to
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[Stage Direction]
goods admitted into Canada which have the benefit of reductions provided for in the Canada-West Indies Trade Agreement, 1926.
"6. In the case of articles exported to Canada of a class or kind made or produced in Canada, if the export or actual selling price to an importer in Canada is less than the fair market value of the same article when sold for home consumption in the usual and ordinary course in the country whence exported to Canada at the time of its exportation to Canada, or is less than the fair market value or value for duty thereof as determined under the provisions of section thirty-six of the Customs Act, or is less than the fair market value thereof as fixed by the Governor in Council under the provisions of section thirty-seven of the Customs Act, or is less than the value for duty thereof as determined by the minister under the provisions of paragraphs (a) and (e) of section forty-one of the Customs Act, or is less than the fair market value thereof as fixed by the minister under the provisions of section forty-three of the Customs Act. there shall, in addition to the duties otherwise established, be levied, collected and paid on such article, on its importation into Canada, a special or dumping duty, equal to the difference between the said selling price of the article for export and the said fair market value thereof or value for duty thereof; and such special or dumping duty shall be levied, collected and paid on such article although it is not otherwise dutiable.
Provided that the said special duty shall not exceed fifty per cent ad valorem in any case, and the following goods shall be exempt from such special duty, viz.:-
Goods of a class subject to duty under the Excise Act.
Provided, notwithstanding, that on importations from Australia under the Australian Trade Agreement Act, 1925, the said special duty shall not exceed fifteen per cent ad valorem in any case.
Notwithstanding anything in this Act contained the levying and collection heretofore of special or dumping duty in cases where the fair market value of goods was determined by the minister, acting or purporting to act under the provisions of section forty-seven A of the Customs Act, as enacted by section three of chapter eighteen of the Statutes of 1922 (section forty-three of the Customs Act, R.S., 1927). is hereby ratified and confirmed.
2.	Excise duties or excise taxes shall be disregarded in estimating the market value of goods for the purposes of special duty when the goods are entitled to entry under the British preferential tariff, intermediate tariff, or any tariff more favourable than the general tariff.
3.	Customs duties of the United Kingdom shall be disregarded in estimating the market value of wines for the purposes of special duty when the same are entitled to entry under the intermediate tariff or any tariff more favourable than the general tariff and are bottled in bond in the United Kingdom and imported direct therefrom.
4.	"Export price" or "selling price" in this section shall be held to mean and include the exporter's price for the goods, exclusive of all charges thereon after their shipment from the place whence exported directly to Canada.

5.	If at any time it appears to the satisfaction of the minister that the payment of the special duty by this section provided for is being evaded by the shipment of goods on consignment without sale prior to such shipment, the minister may in any case or class of cases authorize such action as is deemed necessary to collect on such goods or any of them the same special duty as if the goods had been sold to an importer in Canada prior to their shipment to Canada.
6.	If at any time it appears to the satisfaction of the minister that any person owning or controlling or interested in a business in Canada and also in any other country, or any person carrying on a business in any other country and owning or controlling or interested in a business operating in Canada, and by reason thereof is enabled to import goods for further manufacture or assembling or for resale, and while complying with the legal requirements on importation disposes of such imported goods, whether in the form as imported or as further processed, assembled or manufactured, at prices below the duty paid value thereof as entered at customs plus or including all charges upon the goods after shipment from the place whence exported directly to Canada, including sales, distribution and advertising costs, and plus, if any, the cost of processing, assembling or further manufacturing in Canada, the minister may declare that goods of such class or kind were and are on importation subject to an additional special or dumping duty not exceeding fifty per cent and authorize such action as is deemed necessary for the collection thereof.
7.	If the full amount of any special duty of customs as herein provided has not been paid on goods imported, the customs entry thereof shall be amended and the deficiency paid upon the demand of the collector.
8.	The minister may make such regulations as are deemed necessary for carrying out the provisions of this section and for its enforcement.
" 7. Goods imported into Canada the product or manufacture of any foreign country which treats imports from Canada less favourably than those from other countries, may be made subject by order of the governor in council in the case of goods already dutiable to a surtax over and above the duties specified in Schedule A to this Act, and in the ease of goods not dutiable to a rate of duty, not exceeding, in either case, thirty-three and one-third per centum ad valorem.
2.	Goods the product or manufacture of any foreign country imported into Canada in vessels admitted to registration under the laws of such foreign country may, if such foreign country imposes higher duties of customs upon goods imported into such country in vessels registered in Canada than upon the like goods when imported in vessels of such country, be made subject by order of the governor in council in the case of goods already dutiable to a surtax over and above the duties specified in Schedule A to this Act, and in the case of goods not dutiable to a rate of duty, not exceeding, in either case, thirty-three and one-third per centum ad valorem.
3.	Within the limitations in this section hereinbefore prescribed any such goods may by such order in council be made subject to a

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surtax or rate, as the case may be, differing from the surtax or rate to Which another class of goods may be thereby, or by any other such order, made subject.
. 4. The governor in council may make regulations for carrying out the purposes of this section and may by order in council suspend the surtax or rate in whole or in part from application to the goods of such foreign country or any class of such goods.
5.	The decision of the governor in council shall be final on any question which may arise regarding the application of the surtax or rate imposed pursuant to this section.
"8. Notwithstanding anything in this Act, fish and other products of the fisheries of Newfoundland may be imported into Canada free of customs duty until otherwise determined by the governor in council, by order published in the Canada Gazette.
"9. Fish caught by fishermen in vessels registered in Canada or owned by any person domiciled in Canada, and the products thereof carried from the fisheries in such vessels, shall be admitted into Canada free of duty. The Minister may make such regulations, if any, as are deemed necessary for carrying out the provisions of this section.
"10. Notwithstanding anything in this Act, goods other than tobacco, cigars, cigarettes, spirituous or alcoholic liquors and articles specified in Schedule A of the West Indies Trade Agreement Act, the produce or manufacture of British Honduras, Bermuda, the Bahamas, Jamaica, Turks and Caicos Islands, the Leeward Islands (Antigua, St. Christopher-Nevis, Dominica, Montserrat and the Virgin Islands), the Windward Islands (Greneda. St. Vincent and St. Lucia), Barbados, Trinidad and Tobago, and British Guiana, when imported direct therefrom shall not be subject at any time to more than fifty per centum of the duties imposed on similar goods as set forth in the general tariff under regulations by the minister.
"11. The governor in council may by order in council make such reductions of duties on goods imported into Canada from any other country or countries as may be deemed reasonable by way of compensation for reductions on Canadian products granted by any such country or countries.
"12. On the materials set forth in Schedule B to this Act. when used for consumption m Canada for the purpose _ specified in that Schedule, there may be paid, out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund, the several rates of drawback of Customs duties set opposite to each item respectively in that Schedule, under regulations by the governor in council.
2. If pig iron imported into Canada mixed with pig iron made in Canada has entered into the manufacture of mowing machines, reapers, harvesters, binders and attachments for binders, the drawback payable in pursuance of this section, under regulations by the governor in council, may be computed on the total quantity of pig iron, including pig iron made as aforesaid entering into such goods; provided, however, that the total drawback payable shall not exceed ninety-nine per cent of the duity paid on all the pig iron imported and used by the manufacturer of such goods in manufacturing such goods and other goods.
"13. The importation into Canada of any goods enumerated, described or referred to in Schedule C to this Act is prohibited; and any such goods imported shall thereby become forfeited to the crown and shall be destroyed or otherwise dealt with as the minister directs: and any person importing any such prohibited goods, or causing or permitting Diem to be imported, shall for each offence incur a penalty not exceeding two hundred dollars.
"14. The governor in council may, from time to time, prohibit the importation into Canada of any goods originating in and exported directly or indirectly from any country not a contracting party to the Treaty of Ver-saiilles. executed at Paris, France, on the 28th day of June, 1919, and any order of the governor in council prohibiting the importation into Canada of any goods from any such country shall be published in the next following issue of the Canada Gazette. Any goods imported in violation of the terms of this section shall be- forfeited to the crown and shall be dealt with as the minister directs.
"15. Whenever the governor in council deems it to be in the public interest to inquire into any conspiracy, combination, agreement or arrangement alleged to exist among manufacturers or dealers in any article of commerce to unduly promote the advantage of the manufacturers or dealers in such article at the expanse of the consumers, the governor in council may commission or empower any judge of the Supreme Court, or of the Exchequer Court of Canada, or of any superior court or county court in Canada, to hold an inquiry in a summary way and report to the governor in council whether such conspiracy, combination, agreement or arrangement exists.
2.	The judge may compel the attendance of witnesses and examine them under oath and require the production of books and papers, and shall have such other necessary powers as are conferred upon him by the governor in council for the purpose of such inquiry.
3.	If the judge reports that such conspiracy, combination, agreement or arrangement exists in respect of such article, the governor in council may admit the article free of duty, or so reduce the duty thereon as to give to the public the benefit of reasonable competition in the article, if it appears to the governor in council that such disadvantage to the consumer is facilitated by the duties of customs imposed on a like article.
"16. The governor in council may from time to time, as he deems it expedient, order that goods of any description or class specified in such order, imported into Canada, shall be marked, stamped, branded or labelled in legible English or French words, in a conspicuous place that shall not be covered or obscured by any subsequent attachments or arrangements, so as to indicate the country of origin; and said marking, stamping, branding or labelling shall be as nearly indelible and permanent as the nature of the goods null permit.
2. All orders made by the governor in council under this section shall have effect from and after the day on whidh the same are published in the Canada Gazette, or from and after such later day as is appointed for the purpose of such orders, and during such time as is therein expressed, or if no time is ex-
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
[Stage Direction]
pressed for that purpose, then until the same are revoked or altered.
3.	All such goods imported into Canada after the date of the coming into force of any such order of the governor in council which do not comply with the requirements of such order, shall be subject to an additional duty of ten per centum ad valorem to be levied on the value for duty purposes, and in addition such goods shall not be released from customs possession until they have been so marked, stamped, branded or labelled under customs supervision at the expense of the importer.
4.	If any person shall violate any of the provisions so established relating to the marking, stamping, branding or labelling of any such imported goods, or shall deface, destroy, remove, alter or obliterate any such marks, stamps, brands or labels, with intent to conceal the information given by or contained in such marks, stamps, brands or labels, he shall be liable on summary conviction to a penalty not exceeding one thousand dollars, or to imprisonment no! exceeding one year, or to both fine and imprisonment.
5.	The Minister may make such regulations as are deemed necessary for carrying out the provisions of this section and for the enforcement thereof.
"17. In the event of producers of goods talcing advantage of any duty imposed under this Act to increase the price of such goods to the consumer, or using any such duty to maintain prices at levels deemed by the governor in council to be higher than should prevail, having regard to general economic conditions in the country, the governor in council may reduce or remove such duty.
2. In the event of any one such producer violating the provisions of this section, the
governor in council may impose upon all the products of such producer, or any of them, an excise duty equivalent to the amount of customs duty which would be paid by such goods if the same were imported into Canada under the provisions of the general tariff, and the same shall be collectible, as a tax, and the provisions of the Income War Tax Act as to the collection of taxes shall be applicable hereto.
Provided, that neither subsection of this section shall apply to agricultural products.
2. Resolved, That Schedule A to the Customs Tariff, being chapter forty-four of the Revised Statutes of Canada, 1927, as amended by chapter seventeen of the Acts of 1928, chapter thirty-nine of the Acts of 1929, chapter thirteen of the Acts of 1930 (first Session) and chapter three of the Acts 'of 1930 (second Session), be further amended by striking thereout tariff items 2, 6, 7, 8, 10, 15, 16, 17, 20a 28a, 29a, 35, 39, 48. 55. 63, 67. 69, 71, 71a, 72| 72a, 72b, 73, 74. 75, 76, 89, 90, 99a. 99c* 99d! 101, 105d, 106, 120. 139, 168, 184, 192. 195, 199b 207, 210, 210b, 230, 238a, 265, 282, 296b-, 296c, 296d, 305, 306. 306a. 306b, 307, 308, 318, 326b, 327a, 348, 348b. 348c, 356, 366, 368. 380, 386 (f). 386 (g). 386 (m), 386 (n),3S6 (o). 402a, 403b, 409e, 409q, 412, 422a, 427a, 438a, 438c, 438d, 440c, 440j. 445a, 445e, 446a, 451a, 451d, 461, 476b, 479. 506a, 507, 507a, 511, 516, 519, 521a, 536, 550d, 560a, 564, 569c, 578, 586, 588, 597, 604, 605, 605a, 606, 607, 608, 609, 613, 624. 651, 651a, 652, 653, 655, 665a, 670, 682a,' 711, 796, 798. The several enumerators of goods, respectively, and the several rates of duties of customs, if any, set opposite thereto, and by inserting t'he following items, enumerations and rates of duty in said Schedule A:
Tariff
Item
British
Preferential
Tariff
Intermediate
Tariff
General
Tariff
9a
9b
15
16 17
20a
Domestic fowls, pure-bred, for the improvement of stock, homing or messenger pigeons, and pheasants.
Live hogs	per pound
Meats, fresh, n.o.p.:
(a)	Beef and	veal	per	pound(b)	Lamb	and	mutton	per	pound(e) n.o.p	per	pound
Canned meats, poultry or game; extracts of meat
and fluid beef, not medicated	
Quails, partridges, and squabs, dead or alive, n.o.p. Rabbits, frozen, when imported exclusively for foxfeeding purposes	
Meats, prepared or preserved, other than canned:-
(a)	Bacon, hams, shoulders and other
P°rk	per	pound(b)	n.o.p	per	poundBeeswax	Eggs in the shell	
per dozenCheese	per pound
When in packages weighing two pounds, each, or less, the weight of such packages to be included in the weight for duty.
Butter produced from the cocoa bean	per pound
The governor in council may, when satisfied that cocoa butter is produced in Canada in quantity and quality sufficient to meet Canadian require-Jnents, by Order in Council direct that there be substituted for this item in Schedule A to the Customs Tariff, the following;
Free
Free
4 cts.
4 cts.
2 cts.
15 p.c. 10 p.c.
12} p.c.
Free Free 15 p.c.
2	cts.
3	cts.
Free
Free 1} cts.
6 cts.
6 cts. 2} cts.
30 p.c. 20 p.c.
17} p.c.
lj cts. 3 cts. 20 p.c. 5 cts.
7 cts.
2 cts.
Free 3 cts.
8 cts. 8 cts. 5 cts.
35 p.c. 30 p.c.
20 p.c.
5	cts.
6	cts. 20 p.c. 10 cts.
7	cts.
2 cts.
[Stage Direction]
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
Tariff Item	-	British Preferential Tariff	Inter- mediate Tariff	General TariffButter produced from the cocoa bean	per pound	3 cts.	4 cts.	4 cts.28a	From and after the publication of such Order in Council in the Canada Gazette, this item as it appears in said schedule at the time of the passing of this Act shall be repealed and the provisions of the said Tariff Item as it appears in the last preceding subsection of this section shall be substituted therefor. Tea, imported direct from the country of growth and production or purchased in the United Kingdom	per pound	4 cts.	8 cts.	8 cts.29a	When in packages weighing five pounds, each, or less, the weight of such packages to be included in the weight for duty. Provided, that tea shall be entitled to entry under the British preferential tariff upon evidence satisfactory to the Minister that such tea has been produced wholly in the British dominions, colonies or possessions, and not otherwise. Tea, n.o.p	per pound	10 cts.	10 cts.	10 cts.35	When imported in packages weighing five pounds, each, or less, the weight of such packages to be included in the weight for duty. Hops	per pound	8 cts.	16 cts.	16 cts.39	Starch, including corn starch, potato starch, potato flour and all preparations having the qualities of starch, the weight of the package to be included in the weight for duty	per pound	1 ct.	2 cts.	2 cts.43a	Powdered milk, the weight of the package to be included in the weight for duty	per pound	2J cts.	5 cts.	5 cts.48	Peas, n.o.p	per pound	Free	i ct.	1 ct.54a	Indian com, imported by manufacturers of starch or of cereal foods prepared for human consumption, for use exclusively in their own factories in the manufacture of starch or of such prepared cereal foods	Free	Free	Free55	Indian corn, n.o.p	per bushel	Free	20 cts.	25 cts.63	Rice, cleaned	per one hundred pounds	50 cts.	90 cts.	$1.0067	When in packages weighing two pounds, each, or less, the weight of such packages to be included in the weight for duty. Macaroni and vermicelli, containing no egg or other added ingredients	per one hundred pounds	Free	$1.25	$1.50G9	When in packages weighing two pounds, each, or less, the weight of such packages to be included in the weight for duty. Straw	per ton	Free	$1.75	$2.0069b	Hay	per ton	Free	$1.75	$5.0071	Hemp seed for agricultural purposes	Free	Free	Free71a	Timothy seed	per pound	Free	2 cts.	2 cts.71b	Clover seed, including alfalfa seed	per pound	Free	3 cts.	3 cts.71c	Tree seeds for reforestation purposes only	Free	Free	Free71d	Seed potatoes, imported for use exclusively for propagation purposes, under regulations by the minister.	Free	Free	Free72	Field and garden seeds not specified as free, valued at not less than five dollars per pound, in packages weighing not less than one ounce each	5 p.c.	10 p.c.	10 p.c.72a	Aromatic seeds which are not edible and are in crude state, and not advanced in value or condition by grinding or refining or by any other process oi manufacture, viz.:-Anise, anise star, caraway, cardamom, coriander, cumin, fennel and fennugreek.	Free	Free	Free72b 72c	Seed peas and seed beans, from the United Kingdom Seed of the sugar beet, for agricultural purposes	Free Free	Free	Free72d	Millet and rape seed	5 p.c.	10 p.c.	10 p.c.72e	Bent-grass seed	15 p.c.	30 p.c.	30 p.c.73	Field seeds, n.o.p., when in packages weighing more than one pound each	5 p.c.	10 p.c.	15 p.c.74	Seeds, viz.:-Beet (excepting sugar beet), mangel parsley, parsnip and turnip, when in packages weighing more than one pound each....per pounc	Free	5 cts.	5 cts.75	Seeds, viz.:-Cabbage, radish, cucumber, leek, lettuce, carrot, borecole or kale, when in packages weighing more than one pound each	
per pound	Free	10 cts.	10 cts.2186	COMMONS
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
Tariff Item	-	British Preferential Tariff	Inter- mediate Tariff	General Tariff76	Seeds, viz.:-Cauliflower, celery, onion, pepper and tomato, when in packages weighing more than one pound each.	.per pound	Free	25 cts.	25 cts.76a	Root, garden and other seeds, n.o.p., when in packages weighing more than one pound each. per pound	Free	10 cts.	10 cts.76b	Seeds, viz.:-Field, root, garden and other seeds, when in packages weighing one pound, each, or less.	15 p.c.	225 p.c.	25 p.c.76c	Annatto seed and mushroom spawn	Free	Free	Free89	Vegetables, prepared, in air-tight cans or other airtight containers, the weight of the containers to be included in the weight for duty:- (a) Beans, baked or otherwise prepared.per pound	Free	2 cts.	3 cts.(b) Corn and tomatoes	per pound	Free	2 cts.	3 cts.(c) Peas	per pound	Free	2 cts.	3 cts.(d) ts .o.p	Free	275 p.c.	30 p.c.90	Vegetables, prepared or preserved: (a) Dried, desiccated or dehydrated, including vegetable flour, n.o.p	15 p.c.	275 P-c.	30 p.c.(b) Pickled or preserved in salt, brine, oil or in any other manner, n.o.p	20 p.c.	325 P-c.	35 p.c.(c) Vegetable extracts or juices, liquid mustards, soy and vegetable sauces of all kinds	15 p.c.	325 P-c.	35 p.c.(d) Pastes, hash and all similar products composed of vegetables and meat or fish, or both, n.o.p. .	15 p.c.	32$ p.c.	35 p.c.99a	Plums or prunes, dried, unpitted	per pound	Free	1 ct.	1 ct.99c	When in packages weighing two pounds, each, or less, the weight of such packages to be included in the weight for duty. Raisins and dried currants	per pound	Free	4 cts.	4 cts.99d	When in packages weighing two pounds, each, or less, the weight of such packages to be included in the weight for duty. Dates, dried, unpitted, in bulk	per pound	Free	i ct.	} ct.99e	Dates, n.o.p., the weight of the package to be included in the weight for duty	per pound	1 ct.	If ct.	2$ ct.99f	Figs, dried	per pound	Free	1 ct.	i ct.101	When in packages weighing two pounds, each, or less, the -weight of such packages to be included in the weight for duty. Oranges	per cubic foot.	Free	35 cts.	35 cts.101a	Lemons	Free	Free	Free105d	Jellies, jams, marmalades, preserves, fruit butters and condensed mince meats	per pound	2fcts.	3J cts.	5 cts.106	Fruits, prepared, in air-tight cans or other air-tight containers, the weight of the containers to be included in the weight for duty: (a) Apricots, peaches and pears	per pound	2 cts.	4 cts.	5 cts.(b) Pineapples	per pound	2 cts.	4 cts.	5 cts.(c) N.o.p	per pound	2 cts.	4 cts.	5 cts.120	Anchovies, sardines, sprats, pilchard and herring, (not including kippered herring in sealed containers), packed in oil or otherwise, in sealed tin containers, the weight of the tin container to be included in the weight for duty: (a) When weighing over twenty ounces and not over thirty-six ounces each	per box	35 cts.	5 cts.	6 cts.(b) When weighing over twelve ounces and not over twenty ounces each	per box	25 cts.	4 cts.	4$ cts.(c) When weighing over eight ounces and not over twelve ounces each	per box	2 cts.	3 cts.	35 cts.(d) W'hen weighing eight ounces each or less per box	1} cts.	2 cts.	25 cts.123a	Crabs or clams in sealed containers	n\ p.c.	40 p.c.	40 p.c.139	Glucose or grape sugar, glucose syrup and corn syrup, or any syrups containing an admixture thereof,	J ct.	15 cts.	15 cts.168	Malt flour containing less than 50 per centum in weight of malt; malt syrup or malt syrup powder; extracts of malt, fluid or not; grain molasses-all articles in this item upon valuation without British or foreign excise duties, under regulations prescribed by the Minister	per pound	3 cts.	3 cts.	3 cts.181a	Pictorial post cards, greeting cards and similar artistic cards or folders	and 25 p.c. 22$ p.c.	30 p.c. 32$ p.c.	35 p.c. 35 p.c.and, per pound	5 cts.
[Stage Direction]
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
Tariff
Item
British
Preferential
Tariff
Intermediate
Tariff
General
Tariff
184a
192b
199b
200a
208h
208i
210b
219c
238a
265a
282a
296b
296d
Newspapers and weekly literary papers, unbound tailors', milliners', and mantle-makers' fashion plates, when imported in single copies in sheet form
with periodical trade journals	
Periodical publications, in the English or the French language, consisting of magazines or fiction, unbound or paperbound	per pound
Provided, that the Governor in Council may from time to time by Order in Council exempt from the duties specified in this item such of the periodical publications herein referred to as are deemed by the Governor in Council to be of a religious, educational or scientific character. Provided, further, that the rates of duty specified in this item shall not have force or effect until July 1, 1931.
Provided, further, that nothing in this item shall affect in any way the provisions of Item 1201 of Schedule C to the Customs Tariff.
Tarred paper and prepared roofings (including shingles), fibreboard, strawboard, sheathing and insulation, manufactured wholly or in part of vegetable fibres, n.o.p	
andpaper, glass or flintpaper, and emery paper or
emery cloth	
Paper hanging or wall papers, including borders or
bordering	
and, per pound
Containers wholly or partially manufactured from
fibreboard or paperboard	per pound
Provided, that when imported under the general
tariff rate the duty shall be not less than	
Regenerated cellulose in sheets, not printed	
Provided, that the governor in council may, when satisfied that regenerated cellulose is being manufactured in Canada in quantity and quality sufficient for Canadian requirements, by order in council direct that there be substituted for tariff Item 200a the following:
Regenerated cellulose and manufactures thereof...
Blood albumen and dried blood	
Ethylene glycol, when imported by manufacturers of anti-freezing compounds to be used exclusively in the manufacture of anti-freezing compounds, in their
own factories	
Animal glands, wet or dry, when imported by manufacturers of pharmaceutical and medicinal prepara tions for use exclusively in the manufacture of such
preparations, in their own factories	
Peroxide of soda; silicate of soda in crystals or in solution; bichromate of soda; nitrate of soda or cubic nitre; sulphide of sodium; nitrite of soda; arseni-ate, binarseniate, chlorate, bisulphite and stannate of soda; prussiate of soda and sulphite of soda.
Barilla or soda ash; sal soda	per pound
Proprietary or trade-marked preparations, nonalcoholic, such as are used only for disinfecting, dipping or spraying, when in packages not exceeding three pounds each, in weight, the weight of such packages to be included in the weight for duty Castile scap, the weight of the cartons and wrappings to be included in the weight for duty... .per pound Manufactures of celluloid, or of which celluloid is the
component of chief value, n.o.p	
Oil, whale, including spermaceti	
Fish oils, n.o.p	
Building brick and paving brick	
and, per ton
Manufactures of clay or cement, n.o.p	
Magnesite, dead-burned, sintered, caustic-calcined or plastic magnesia; magnesium carbonate, basic
or otherwise, excepting crude rock	
Feldspar, ground but not further manufactured...
Free
15 p.c. 15 p.c. 22* p.c.
1 cent Free
20 p.c. 5 p.c.
Free
Free
Free 1/5 ct.
15 p.c.
1 ct.
15 p.c. 12* p.c. 12* p.c. 12* p.c.
12| p.c.
20 p.c. Free
Free
25 p.c. 22b p.c. 32* p.c.
1* cts. 10 p.c.
30 p.c. 7* p.c.
Free
Free
Free 3/10 ct.
25 p.c.
1 ct.
32* p.c. 30 p.c. 20 p.c. 20 p.c.
20 p.c.
27* p.c. 20 p.c.
Free 15 cts.
35 p.c.
25 p.c.
35 p.c. 2 cts.
1* cts.
35 p.c. 10 p.c.
35 p.c. 10 p.c.
Free
Free
Free 3/10 ct.
25 p.c.
2 cts.
40 p.c. 30 p.c. 22* p.c. 22* p.c. $1 00
22* p.c.
30 p.c. 30 p.c.
2188	COMMONS
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
Tariff Item	-	British Preferential Tariff	Inter- mediate Tariff	General Tariff
305	Flagstone, sandstone and all building stone, not hammered, sawn or chiselled, and marble and			
306	granite, rough, not hammered or chiselled	
xMarble, sawn or sand rubbed, not polished; granite, sawn; paving blocks of stone; flagstone and building stone, other than marble or granite, sawn on not	10 p.c.	121 P.c.	20 p.c.306a	more than two sides	
Building stone, other than marble or granite, sawn on more than two sides but not sawn on more than	Free	20 p.c.	35 p.c.306b	four sides	per one hundred pounds Building stone, other than marble or granite, planed, turned, cut or further manufactured than sawn	10 cts.	20 cts.	25 cts.306c	on four sides	per one hundred pounds Marble, not further manufactured than sawn, when imported by manufacturers of tombstones to be used exclusively in the manufacture of such	30 cts.	45 cts.	50 cts.307	articles, in their own factories	
Marble and granite, n.o.p., and all manufactures of	Free	15 p.c.	20 p.c.marble or granite, n.o.p	30 p.c.	35 p.c.	40 p.c.308	Manufactures of stone, n.o.p	20 p.c.	30 p.c.	35 p.c.318	Common and colourless window glass	
Prqvided, that the Governor in Council may, when satisfied that common colourless window glass is being manufactured in Canada in quality and quantity sufficient for Canadian requirements, by order in council direct that there be substituted for this tariff item the following: Common and colourless window glass: (a) in sheets not exceeding 80 square inches in	7i p.c.	121 pc-	121 P-c.area	per pound (b) in sheets exceeding 80 square inches but not	11 cts.	11 cts.	11 cts.exceeding 120 square inches	per pound (c) in sheets exceeding 120 square inches in	21 cts.	3 cts.	3 cts.322a	area	per pound Laminated glass, sheet or plate, and manufactures	31 cts.	41 cts.	41 cts.thereof, n.o.p	171 p.c	25 p.c.	35 p.c.326b 348	Glass eyes for human use	
Copper scrap, and copper in pigs, blocks or ingots; cathode plates of electrolytic copper for melting	Free	Free	Free348c	per pound Provided, that nothing shall be deemed to be copper scrap except waste or refuse copper fit only to be remanufactured in furnaces. Brass scrap and brass in blocks, ingots or pigs; copper in bars or rods, not less than six feet in length, unmanufactured, n.o.p.; copper in strips, sheets or plates, not polished, planished or coated; brass or copper tubing, in lengths not less than six feet, and	1 ct.	11 cts.	11 cts.356	not polished, bent or otherwise manufactured	
Nickel in bars or rods, not including bars or rods depolarized or otherwise processed for use as	5 p.c.	10 p.c.	10 p.c.anodes, and nickel in strips, sheets or plates	Free	Free	Free366	Watches of all kinds	
Provided, that when imported under the intermediate or the general tariff, the duty shall be	20 p.c.	30 p.c.	35 p.c.366a	Watch actions and mo\ ements, finished or unfinished Provided, that when imported under the intermediate or the general tariff rate, the duty	Free	15 p.c. 40 cts.	15 p.c. 40 cts.366b	Parts of watch movements, finished or unfinished,	368	not including plates	
Clocks, time recorders, clock movements, clock-	Free	15 p.c.	15 p.c.work mechanisms, and clock cases	
Provided, that when imported under the Intermediate or the General Tariff rate, the duty shall	20 p.c.	30 p.c. 50 cts.	35 p.c. 50 cts.369	Parts of clock movements or of clockwork mechan-	376a	isms, finished or unfinished, not including plates... Chromium metal and tungsten metal, in lumps, powder, ingots, blocks or bars, and scrap of alloy metal containing chromium and tungsten, when imported by manufacturers for use exclusively for alloying	15 p.c.	25 p.c.	25 p.c.purposes, in their own factories	Free	Free	Free
[Stage Direction]
The Bridget-Mr. Bennett
Tariff Item	-	British Preferential Tariff	Inter- mediate Tariff	General Tariff377d	Billets of steel of Bessemer quality, when imported by manufacturers of seamless steel tubes for use exclusively in the manufacture of seamless steel	5 p.c.380	tubes, in their own factories	
Plates of iron or steel, hot or cold rolled:-	Free	5 p.c.	(a) Not more than 60 inches in width, n.o.p.per ton	14.25	$6.00	$7.00(6) More than 60 inches in width, n.o.p	per ton	Free	$3.00	$5.00(c) Flanged, dished or curved, n.o.p	
Provided, that the governor in council may, when satisfied that iron or steel plates are being rolled in Canada up to a width of 120 inches, and that the same can be rolled in quantity and quality sufficient for Canadian requirements, by order in council direct that there be substituted for sections (a) and (b) of this tariff item the following:	10 p.o.	25 p.c.	30 p.c.(a) Not more than 120 inches in width, n.o.p.per ton	S4.25	$6.00	$7.00386f	(6) More than 120 inches in width, n.o.p... .per ton Hoop, band or strip rolled or drawn, coated or not, when imported by manufacturers of mats for use exclusively in the manufacture of mats, in their	Free	$3.00	$5.00386g	own factories	
Sheets, plates, hoop, band or strip, not tempered or ground nor further manufactured than cut to shape, without indented edges, when imported by manufacturers of saws or straw cutters for use exclusively in the manufacture of saws or straw cutters, in their	Free	5 p.c.	5 p.c.386m	own factories	
Sheets of iron or steel, cold rolled, when imported by manufacturers for use exclusively in the manufacture of sheets coated with tin, and sheets, hoop, band or strip, of iron or steel, hot rolled, when imported by manufacturers for use exclusively in the manufacture of sheets, hoop, band or strip coated with zinc or other metal or metals, not	Free	Free	Free386n	including tin, in their own factories	
Hoop, band or strip, hot rolled, in coils not less than than 100 feet in length, when imported by manufacturers for use exclusively in the manufacture of	5 p.c.	71 p.c.	10 p.c.386o	cold rolled iron or steel, in their own factories	
Hoop, band or strip, cold rolled, electro-galvanized, six inches or less in width, in coils of not less than 100 feet, when imported by manufacturers for use exclusively in the manufacture of rolling doors of	Free	5 p.c.	5 p.c.399b	steel, in their own factories	
Tubing, ct wrought iron or steel, not more than one-half inch in diameter, in lengths not less than six feet, coated with metal, not polished, bent nor further manufactured, when imported by manufacturers to be further processed, in their own	Free	71 P-c.	71 p.c.399c	factories.	
Pipes and tubes, not exceeding two inches in diameter, made from puddled iron, when for use exclusively	Free	71 p.c.	71 p.c.402a'	in casing oil wells	.	
Woven or welded wire fencing, of iron or steel, coated or not, n.o.p.; wire cloth or wire netting, of iron or	Free	Free	Free403b	steel, coated or not	
Flat or woven flat, including steel strip, in the coil, coated or not, -064 inch in thickness or thinner, with tolerance not to exceed -002 inch, when imported by manufacturers of corset clasps, steels, wires, and dress stays for use exclusively in the manufacture of corset clasps, steels, wires and dress	25 p.c.	35 p.c.	35 p.c.403e	stays, in their own factories	
Steel wire, when imported by manufacturers ol machine card clothing for use exclusively in the manufacture of machine card clothing, in their own	Free	5 p.c.	71 p.c.409c	factories	
Spraying and dusting machines and attachments therefor, including hand sprayers; fruit or vegetable grading machines and attachments therefor; apparatus specially designed for sterilizing bulbs pressure testing apparatus for determining maturity of fruit; pruning hooks; pruning shears; animal dehoming instruments; and complete parts of all the	Free	Free	Free22110-	foregoing	
139	Free	15 p.c.	25 p.c.
21W	COMMONS
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
Tariff Item	[DOT]-	British Preferential Tariff	Inter- mediate Tariff	General Tariff409q	Complete parts for repairs, if imported on or before the thirty-first day of March, 1932. (i) For the implements or machinery enumerated in tariff items 409c, 409e, 409f, 409g, 409j 409o, 409p, and 439c	Free	10 p.c.	10 p.c.(ii) For the implements or machinery enumerated in tariff item 409b	Free	71 p.c.	71 p.c.(iii) For the implements or machinery enumerated in tariff item 409d	Free	6 p.c.	6 p.c.(iv) For the implements or machinery enumerated in tariff items 409h and 409n	Free	10 p.c.	15 p.c.(v) For the implements or machinery enumerated in tariff items 409i and 409k	n\ p.c. Free	17* p.c. Free412	Machinery, being presses for use in the printing of newspapers, of not less value by retail than $1,500 each, of a class or kind not made in Canada	Free	422a 427	Concrete road-paving machines, self propelling, end loading type, with a capacity of 21 cubic feet of wet concrete or more; concrete and asphalt road finishing machines; form graders: sub-graders; trench and ditch excavating machines, round wheel or vertical or ladder boom, chain and bucket type, for digging vertical or sloping bank ditches; back filling machines and equipment, mounted on self-propelling wheels or crawling traction, semi- or full-revolving boom and scraper type; steam or air driven pile hammers or extractors; well-points; truck turntables; all the foregoing of a class or kind not made in Canada, and complete parts thereof	
All machinery composed wholly or in part of iron or steel, n.o.p., and complete parts thereof	Free 15 p.c.	10 p.c. 271 p.c.	12* p.c. 35 p.c.427a	Rolling mill rolls, when imported by proprietors of rolling mills for use only in rolling iron or steel....	Free	Free	Free438a	Provided, that the governor in council may, when satisfied that rolling mill rolls for rolling iron or steel are being manufactured in Canada, by order in council direct that this tariff item be cancelled. Automobiles for conveying passengers only, n.o.p., valued at retail at place of production, when new, with standard equipment complete, at more than twelve hundred dollars each but not more than twenty-one hundred dollars each; chassis for same	15 p.c.	22J P-c.	30 p.c.438c	Automobiles and motor vehicles of all kinds, n.o.p.; chassis for same	15 p.c.	30 p.c.	40 p.c.438d	Horns, distributors, instrument board lamps, oil gauges, gasoline gauges, thermostats, oil filters, carburetors, purifiers for oil, purifiers for air, annular ball bearings and parts thereof, lock washers, speedometers and parts thereof, vacuum tanks, composite gaskets of copper and asbestos, steering wheels and rims therefor, one piece welded axle housings, machined or not, instrument bezel assemblies, dash heat indicators, electric ignition locks, cylinder lock barrels and keys, bearing spring shackles and automatic radiator shutter assemblies, all of a class or kind not made in Canada, when imported by manufacturers of goods enumerated in tariff items 438a, 438b, 438c, and 438e for use only as original equipment in the manufacture of motor vehicles enumerated in tariff items 438a, 438b, and 438c	Free	Free	Free438e	Tops, wheels and bodies, n.o.p., for motor vehicles enumerated in tariff items 438a, 438b and 438c...	20 p.c.	27J p.c.	30 p.c.440c	Racing shells or oars therefor, when imported by a bona fide amateur rowing club in Canada for use exclusively by such club	Free	25 p.c.	25 p.c.440j	Trawls, trawling spoons, fly hooks, sinkers, swivels, sportsmen's fishing reels, bait and hooks, and fishing tackle, n.o.p	20 p.c.	25 p.c.	30 p.c.445a	Electric head, side and tail lights; electric torches or flashlights and complete parts therefor	20 p.c.	30 p.c.	30 p.c.
[Stage Direction]
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
Tariff Item	-	British Preferential Tariff	Inter- mediate Tariff	General Tariff445e	Electric and galvanic batteries, n.o.p., and complete parts thereof, including separator walls of wood, cut to size or not	15 p.c.	25 p.c.	273 P-c.446	Electric steam turbo generator sets, 700 H.P. and greater, of a class or kind not made in Canada, and complete parts thereof	Free	15 p.c.	20 p.c.446a	Manufactures, articles or wares, of iron or steel or of which iron or steel or both are the component materials of chief value, n.o.p	15 p.c.	273 P-c.	35 p.c.451a	Needles, of any material or kind, n.o.p	15 p.c.	30 p.c.	35 p.c.451d	Papier mache shoe buttons, shoe eyelets, corset eyelets, shoe eyelet hooks, shoe lace wire fasteners...	Free	Free	Free461	Safes, including doors; doors and door irames for vaults; scales, balances, weighing beams and strength-testing machines of all kinds, n.o.p	10 p.c.	30 p.c.	35 p.c.475c	Plates and electrotypes of metal, for printing music..	Free	Free	Free476b	Surgical suction apparatus including motive power; prepared surgical catgut; nitrous oxide; ethylene; ethyl chloride; operating room lights designed to minimize shadow, not including bulbs; all the foregoing of a class or kind not made in Canada, and complete parts thereof, for the use of any public hospital, under regulations prescribed by the minister	Free	Free	Free479	Materials and articles, when imported by manufacturers of artificial limbs or parts, for use exclusively in the manufacture of artificial limbs or parts, in their own factories	Free	Free	Free506a	Clothespins and parts thereof	per gross	Free	9 cts.	10 cts.511	Fishing rods, walking sticks and walking canes, of all kinds; golf clubs and finished parts thereof; skis; racquets and racquet frames and baseball bats....	20 p.c.	273 p.c.	30 p.c.516	Blinds of wood, metal or other material, not textile or paper	Free	30 p.c.	35 p.c.507	Single-ply, sliced or rotary-cut veneers of rosewood, mahogany, walnut, oak or Spanish cedar, not over five-sixteenths of an inch in thickness, not taped nor jointed	Free	10 p.c.	10 p.c.507a	Single-ply, sliced or rotary-cut veneers of wood, n.o.p., not over five-sixteenths of an inch in thickness, not taped nor jointed	10 p.c.	20 p.c.	20 p.c.507b	Veneers of wood of any kind, not over five-sixteenths of an inch in thickness, taped or jointed	15 p.c.	25 p.c.	25 p.c.507c	Plywood made of two or more layers of veneer or lumber of wood, glued or cemented together, but not further manufactured	17§ P.c.	30 p.c.	35 p.c.519	House, office, cabinet or store furniture of wood, iron, or other material, in parts or finished	20 p.c.	30 p.c.	45 p.c.519a	Wire screens, wire doors and wire windows; cash registers; window cornices and cornice poles of all kinds; hair, spring and other mattresses; curtain stretchers, furniture springs and carpet sweepers...	20 p.c.	273 p.c.	30 p.c.536	Batts, batting and wadding of wool, cotton or other fibre, n.o.p	123 P-c.	223 P-c.	25 p.c.540b	Fabrics, wholly of flax, or of hemp, or of flax, hemp and cotton, viz.: towels, towelling, glass cloths, table cloths, luncheon cloths, sheets, sheeting pillow cases, pillow casing, in the web or otherwise unbleached, bleached, coloured, crested, or otherwise, not including table damask	223 P-c.	30 p.c	323 P-c.and, per pound	3 cts.	33 cts.	4 cts*549e	Filter press cloth made from human hair, importec by manufacturers of linseed oil for use exclusively in the manufacture of linseed oil, in their own factories, under regulations by the minister	20 p.c.	273 P-c.	30 p.c.551b	Mohair yarns, imported by manufacturers of cut pile fabrics for upholstery purposes for use exclusively in the manufacture of such cut pile fabrics, in theii own factories	Free	10 p.c.	12J p.c.Provided, that the governor in council may when satisfied that mohair yarns are being produced in Canada in quantity and quality sufficien for Canadian requirements, by order in counci 1 direct that this tariff item be repealed..	
22110- mj
2192	COMMONS
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
Tariff	British	Inter-	-	Preferential	mediate	GeneralItem	Tariff	Tariff	Tariff560a	Woven fabrics wholly or in part of silk, not to contain	wool, not including fabrics in chief part by weight	27\ p.c.	40 p.c. 10 cts.	45 p.c. 10 cts.and, per lineal yard Woven fabrics wholly, or in chief part by weight,	564	of silk or artificial silk, or both, imported in the web in lengths of not less than five yards each by manufacturers of neckties, scarves, or mufflers, for use exclusively in the manufacture of such articles	m p-c.	20 p.c.	20 p.c.Provided, that the governor in council may, when	satisfied that the fabrics specified in this item are being manufactured in Canada in quantity and quality sufficient for Canadian requirements, by order in council direct that the provisions of this tariff item be repealed.	569c	Hat braids, of a class or kind not made in Canada,	whether woven, knitted or plaited, not exceeding four inches in width, imported for use exclusively	in the manufacture of hat bodies or shapes, but not for use in the ornamentation or trimming of such bodies or shapes, under regulations prescribed	Free 45 p.c.578	Regalia, badges and belts of all kinds, n.o.p	271 p.c.	30 p.c.	586	Coal, anthracite or lignite, n.o.p	per ton	Free	40 cts.	40 cts.587	Coke	per ton	Free	$1.00	$1.00588	Coal, n.o.p., including screenings or coal dust of any	kind	per ton	35 cts.	75 cts.	75 cts.589	Charcoal	per ton	Free	$7.50	$7.50597	20 p.c.	27j p.c.	30 p.c.Provided, that when imported under the inter-	mediate or the general tariff, the duty shall be	$75.00	$75.00597a	Musical instruments of all kinds, n.o.n.; phonographs,	graphophones, gramophones and finished parts thereof, including cylinders and records therefor;	20 p.c.	27} p.c.	30 p.c.304	Belting leather in butts or bends; sole leather; and	all leather further finished than tanned, n.o.p	15 p.c.	25 p.c.	25 p.c.605	Leather produced from East India tanned kip, un-	coloured, when imported by manufacturers of boots and shoes for use exclusively in lining boots and	606	shoes, in their own factories; genuine reptile leathers	124 p.c.	15 p.c.	15 p.c.Leather produced from East India tanned kip, n.o.p..	20 p.c.	25 p.c.	25 p.c.607	and, per square foot	4 cts.	4 cts.	4 cts.Glove leathers, when imported by manufacturers of	gloves for use exclusively in manufacturing gloves, in their own factories	5 p.c.	7} p.c.	10 p.c.Provided, that the governor in council may, when	608	satisfied that the glove leathers specified in this item are being produced in Canada in quantity and quality sufficient for Canadian requirements, by order in council direct that there be substituted for this tariff item the following Glove leathers, when imported by manufacturers of gloves for use exclusively in manufacturing gloves, in their own factories	5 p.c.	7} p.c.	20 p.c.Leather not further finished than tanned, and skins,	n.o.p	10 p.c. 20 p.c. 20 p.c.	17} p.c. 30 p.c. 35 p.c.	20 p.c.609	Belting, of leather	611b	Leather garments, lined or unlined	35 p.c.613	Manufactures of leather, including manufactures of	raw hide, n.o.p	20 p.c.	35 p.c.	35 p.c.624	Bead ornaments, and ornaments of alabaster, spar.	624a	amber, terra cotta or composition; fans of all kinds; statues and statuettes of any material	20 p.c.	27} p.c.	30 p.c.Dolls and toys of all kinds	20 p.c.	30 p.c.	40 p.c.651	Buttons of all kinds covered or not, n.o.p., including	recognition buttons, and cuff or collar buttons.. ..	20 p.c.	35 p.c.	35 p.c.651a	and, per gross	5 cts.	5 cts.	5 cts.Buttons of vegetable ivory	20 p.c. 5 cts.	35 p.c. 5 cts.	35 p.c. 5 cts.653	and, per gross	Brushes of all kinds	17} p.c. 15 p.c. 15 p.c.	30 p.c. ^5 p.c. 35 p.c.	40 p.c. 27£ p.c. 35 p.c.655	Pens, penholders, and rulers, of all kinds	655a	-<ead pencils and crayons	
[Stage Direction]
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
Tariff Item	-	British Preferential Tariff	Inter- mediate Tariff	General Tariff665a 670	Fuse, not metallic	
Grinding wheels, stones or blocks, manufactured by the bonding together of either natural or artificial abrasives; manufactures of emery or of artificial	Free	25 p.c.	30 p.c.682a	abrasives, n.o.p.	
Net floats of aluminum or glass of a class or kind not made in Canada, for use only in deep-sea or lake fishing, not to include floats for sportsmen's use.. All goods not enumerated in this schedule as subject to any other rate of duty, and not otherwise declared free of duty, and not being goods the im-	15 p.c.	25 p.c.	30 p.c.711	Free	Free	Freeportation whereof is by law prohibited	
Provided that duty shall not be deemed to be provided for by this item upon dutiable goods mentioned as "n.o.p." in any preceding tariff item. Provided further that when the component material of chief value in any non-enumerated article consists of dutiable material enumerated in this schedule as bearing a higher rate of duty than is specified in this tariff item, such non-enumerated article shall be subject to the highest duty which would be chargeable thereon if it were composed wholly of the component material thereof of chief value, such "component material of chief value" being that component material which shall exceed in value any other single component material in its condition as found in the article.	15 p.c.	25 p.c.	25 p.c.3.	Resolved, that Schedule B to the Customs Tariff, being chapter forty-four of the Revised Statutes of Canada, 1927, as amended by chapter seventeen of the Acts of 1928, chapter thirty-nine of the Acts of 1929, chapter thirteen of the Acts of 1930 (first session) and chapter three of the Acts of 1930 (second session),
and by order in council, be amended by striking thereout tariff items 1050 and 1055, and by repealing order in council, P.C. 1201, dated the seventh day of June, one thousand nine hundred and ten, and by inserting the following items, enumerations and rates of drawback of customs duties in said Schedule B: -
Item
No.
Goods
When subject to Drawback
Portion of Duty (Not including Special Duty or Dumping Duty) Payable as Drawback
1055
Sugar, viz.: raw sugar produced in the British Empire, or sugar refined in Canada from raw sugars produced in the British Empire.
Materials, including all parts	
When used in the manufacture of wine in Canada	
When used in the manufacture of goods enumerated in tariff items 438a and 438b:
Provided, that no drawback shall hereafter be paid under this Item unless at least fifty per centum of the cost of producing the finished article, not to include, after September 30, 1931, duties paid upon imported materials, has been incurred in Canada;
Provided, further, that no drawback shall be paid under this Item on importations of any of the undermentioned articles: Rubber tires: wheel-rims; wheels, including hubs and drums; tire carriers; tire covers; wheel carriers; brakes, service and emergency; brake linings; brake pedals and operating levers; chassis springs, between frame
99 p.c.
2194	COMMONS
The Budget-Mr. Bennett
Item No.	Goods	When subject to Drawback	Portion of Duty (Not including Special Duty or Dumping Duty) Payable as Draw bacK
		axles; shock absorbers; chassis frames; front axles, forged type only; clutch and clutch pedals; universal joints; propeller shafts; transmissions; gear shift levers; rear axles, except banjo housings; radiator cores; exhaust pipes; mufflers; gasoline tanks; running boards and covers; front and rear fenders; bumpers and bumperettes; steering gears; head and tail lights, not including lenses; dome lamps; electric light globes; electric wiring and cables; spark plugs; batteries; starting motors; electric generators; drag links; motor fans; motor fan belts; thrust bearings, ball or plain; motor hoods, sheet metal; motor hood clamps; anti-squeak braids and strips; moulded rubber parts; lubrication fittings; wheel hub caps; sand castings; drop rolled or pressed forgings; bolts, nuts, screws, tacks and studs; head pins and clevis; cotter pins; plain washers; coil springs and seat springs; wood frames for bodies; rubber and pyroxylin covered or doubled top fabrics and curtains; windshields complete; upholstering fabrics and materials other than printed fabrics; rubber tubing and wind-laces; floor boards; carpets; window shades; paints and varnishes and solder; stampings of all kinds other than radiator shells, and cowls and body stampings; tool kit equipment, including jacks; robe rails and foot rests; curtain and carpet fasteners; rear view mirrors: gear shift lever knobs; felt parts: clocks, stem winding; window finishing strips. Provided, further, that any claims for drawback that have accrued or may accrue up to and including the 30th day of September, 1931, shall be paid in accordance with the provisions of the Tariff as existent on the 25th day of May, 1931		60 p.c.
i.	Resolved, That Schedule C to the Customs Tariff, being chapter forty-four of the Revised Statutes of Canada, 1927, he amended by adding thereto the following tariff item:
1215 Used or second hand automobiles and motor vehicles of all kinds, manufactured prior to the calendar year in which importation into Canada is sought to be made.
Provided, that this item does not affect in any manner automobiles and motor vehicles imported under tariff items 702 or 705a, or under tourists' or travellers' vehicle permits.
5.	Resolved, That any enactment founded upon the foregoing resolutions shall be deemed 
to have come into force on the second day of June, one thousand nine hundred and thirty-one, and to have applied to all goods mentioned in the foregoing resolutions taken out of warehouse for consumption on and after that date.
Mr. RALSTON:: Mr. Speaker, I beg to
move the adjournment of the debate.


Richard Bedford Bennett: Perhaps the hon. gentleman will let us know what day suits his convenience to proceed.

Questions


James Layton Ralston: I understood that Thursday had been suggested.


Richard Bedford Bennett: Very well.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: I assume, Mr. Speaker, that when the house resumes at eight o'clock we shall revert to the beginning of the order paper.


Richard Bedford Bennett: I take it that when the
house meets at eight o'clock we shall revert to questions.
At six o'clock the house took recess.
After Recess
The house resumed at eight o'clock.



QUESTIONS

[Stage Direction]
(Questions answered orally are indicated by an asterisk.)

Mr. DORION:: 1.	Did Mr. Maurice Tetreau, Montreal lawyer, from December 29, 1921, to August 1, 1930, represent the federal government, or any of the departments of the government, before the courts of Quebec province?
2.	If so, in what cases was he acting, and what was the amount paid to him?


Mr. CAHAN:: 1.	No.
2.	Answered by No. 1.


QUEBEC HARBOUB COMMISSION-OIL PURCHASES
Mr. BOUCHARD:: 1.	Does the Quebec harbour commission purchase the whole or a part of its oil and gasoline supplies from the Shell Oil Company?
2.	Does the said Shell Oil Company refine in Canada?


Mr. CAHAN:: 1.	The Quebec harbour commission does not purchase any oil or gasoline from the Shell Oil Company. On March 4, 1930, the Quebec harbour commission purchased one barrel only of winter black oil from the Shell Oil Company.
2.	No.


CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION-ELIGIBLE LISTS
Mr. PERRAS:: 1.	Was any examination held by the Civil Service Commission early in 1930 for clerks grade 1 and grade 2 positions?
2.	If so, in how many centres was such an examination held?
3.	How many of the successful candidates were placed on the eligible list for appointment as clerks grade 2. in 1930?
4.	When will the list of eligibles expire?
5.	Is it a fact that the 1930 eligibles for grade 2 positions have been disqualified by the Civil Service Commission and had to qualify again for the same position, recently?
6.	Is it a fact that the Civil Service Commission opened up 700 new positions for the next census for census clerks and clerks grade 2, although about 200 clerks grade 2 were already available?
7.	How many of the successful grade 2 candidates on the 1930 list of eligibles have been appointed by the Civil Service Commission?
8.	If examinations are held far in advance of the civil service requirements, and if candidates duly qualified are disqualified in being compelled to write at another examination, is it the intention of the Civil Service Commission to reimburse the examination fees paid in by successful candidates?


Mr. CAHAN:: 1.	Yes, on April 1 and 2, 1930.
2.	Olerk grade 1, 35; clerk grade 2, 42.
3.	235.
4.	The eligible list which ordinarily would have lapsed on the 22nd May, 1931, has already been extended to 22nd November, 1931, and will probably be extended for further periods up to a limit of possibly three years.
5.	No.
6.	Seven hundred and five positions were advertised for the census on January 27, 1931. These positions require an examination in arithmetic; checking, computing and comparing; geography and English, and those who had qualified in the examination for clerk grade 2 were not considered eligible unless they demonstrated their ability to pass in the subjects not covered by the clerk grade 2 examination.
7.	23 permanent, 17 temporary.
8.	No. The Civil Service regulations make no provision for the return of examination fees except where a candidate is unable to write on an examination as provided in section 15, subsection 2.


CIVIL SERVICE-STUDENT MUSEUM ASSISTANT
Mr. PERRAS:: 1.	When was the last examination held by the Civil Service Commission for the position of student museum assistant?
2.	In how many centres was such an examination held?
3.	How many candidates were successful at said examination and placed on the list of eligibles?
4.	How many candidates were appointed by the Civil Service Commission as student museum assistants, and if any, (a) who were so appointed, (b) in what order of merit, (c) and on what date or dates?
5.	If no appointments were made who cancelled the requisition, and why?
6.	Will the government ask the Civil Service Commission to extend the eligible list No. 20403 for another year if no one has been so far appointed?
Questions

7.	When examinations are held much in advance of the Civil Service requirements, is there any provision in the Civil Service Act towards extending the life of eligible lists?


Mr. CAHAN:: 1.	April 19th, 1930.
2.	Two.
3.	Five.
4.	None.
(a), (b) and (c) answered by No. 4.
5.	The Civil Service, Commission advised the Department of Mines when the eligible list was available, and received a reply that, "Considering our appropriations and commitments to date, it would seem inadvisable, for a few months at least, to authorize any new continuing disbursements. For this reason I regret to say that no assignment will for the time being be requested."
6.	Eligible list No. 20403 lapsed on the 21st May, 1931.
7.	Section 31 of the Civil Service Regulations provides for the continuance of the list if, in the opinion of the commission, the public interest will be served by its continuance.


STE. ANNE DE BELLEVUE HOSPITAL PHYSICIAN
Mr. DUGUAY:: 1.	Was Doctor Dunn appointed by the Civil Service Commission as permanent physician of the Ste. Anne de Bellevue hospital?
2.	If so, when?
3.	At what place and on what date were his examinations held?'
4.	Did Doctor Dunn serve overseas during the Great war?


Mr. MacLAREN:: 1.	Yes.
2.	1st April, 1931.
3.	16th December, 1930, and 11th March, 1931. Office of Civil Service Commission, Ottawa.
4.	Yes.


NATIONAL DEFENCE RETIREMENTS
Mr. ROSS:: 1.	How many permanent officers of the Department of National Defence have been permitted to retire voluntarily since 1919?
2.	How many received full pension on such retirement?
3.	How many were allowed reduced pension on such retirement?
4.	How many were retired without pension?


Mr. SUTHERLAND:: 1.	Royal Canadian navy, 1; Permanent active militia, 61; Royal Canadian Air Force, 13.
2.	Royal Canadian navy, nil; Permanent active militia, 2; Royal Canadian Air Force, nil.

3.	Royal Canadian navy, nil; Permanent active militia, nil; Royal Canadian Air Force, nil.
4.	Royal Canadian navy, 1; Permanent active militia, 59; Royal Canadian Air Force, 13.


SCHOONER DOROTHY
Mr. HANSON (Skeena):: 1.	How long has the schooner "Dorothy" been employed by the International Fisheries Commission?
2.	How much money has been paid per season?
3.	How many days each season has she been under charter ?
4.	How much is paid for the vessel?
5.	How much is paid for the captain, engineer, and crew per man?
6.	Does the price paid the vessel include officers and crew?
7.	How many Canadians, if any, have been employed ?
8.	How much has been paid for the supplies?
9.	How much of it has been spent in Canada?
10.	How much in the United States?
11.	Why is this charter not alternated between a Canadian and an American vessel?
12.	Why are no Canadians employed as officers, or crew on this vessel?
13.	What proportion of the total cost is paid by Canada?
14.	How many people are employed in various positions by the International Fisheries Commission?
15.	How many of them are Canadians, and how many Americans?


Mr. RHODES:: 1.	and 3. In 1927, 82 days; 1928, lllf days; 1929, 64 days; 1930, 129 days.
2.	In 1927, $17,493.84; 1928, $19,792.74; 1929, $8,385.53; 1930, $21,969.67.
4.	In 1927, $60 per day; 1928, $50 per day; 1929, $50 per day; 1930, $55 per day.
5.	It varied slightly in different years, In
1930 the rates were:	Captain, $250 per
month; Engineer, $200 per month; 1st Mate, $200 per month; 2nd Mate, $160 per month; Oilers, 1 at $140 per month; 1 at $125 per month; Cook, $175 per month; Deckhands, $100 per month; Wireless Operator, $140 per month.
6.	No.
7.	Not known as the crew was engaged by the owner who was responsible for the vessel.
8.
1927-	28 (fiscal year)	$8,299.151928-	29	"	"	
4.965.211929-	30	"	"	
6,066.961930-	31	"	"	
4,571.21

Questions
9. and 10.
Fiscal Year	Canada	U.S.	Not known1927-28	81,475.22	$6,823.93	1928-29	4,863.63	$101.531929-30	953.15	5,037.83	75.981930-31	2,748.08	1,823.13	$5,176.45 $18,548.52	$177.5611. There	was no Canadian vessel suitable	
for the work in which the "Dorothy" was engaged. The Canadian vessels being adapted for fishing on the nearby banks, are too small for use on the western banks. A Canadian vessel was employed whenever the work to be done could be carried on by a Canadian fishing vessel.
12.	Answered by No. 7.
13.	One-half.
14 and 15. Varies. On the permanent staff there are 4 Canadians and 2 United States citizens. In April last there were 12 temporaries, of whom 3 were Canadian and 9 United States citizens.


DOMINION CONVERSION LOAN
James Layton Ralston: What is the cost to the government of the present conversion loan per each $1,000 par value converted, stating separately the cost of (a) advertising, (b) brokerage, (c) other expenses?


Richard Bedford Bennett: A statement respecting
the conversion loan is being made in connection with the budget. Aocounts have not yet been rendered for advertising and other expenses.


ST. JOHNS, QUE., MILITARY QUARTERS- BREAD SUPPLIES
Mr. RHEAUME:: 1.	Who had the contract for supplying bread to the military quarters at St. Johns, Quebec, from April 1, 1930, to September 30, 1930?
2.	Were tenders called at the expiration of contract?
3.	If so, what were the names of tenderers and their prices?
4.	To whom was the contract granted?
5.	Were tenders called in the month of March, 1931?
6.	If so, what were the names of tenderers and the prices submitted?
7.	To whom was the contract granted?


Mr. SUTHERLAND:: .
1.	Messrs. Bissonette Freres.
2.	Yes.
3.	A. E. Chaput at 5-5 cents per pound,
4.	A. E. Chaput.
5.	Yes.
6.	A. E. Chaput at 5} cents per pound; Pierre Daneau at 6 cents per pound.
7.	A. E. Chaput.


SIR GEORGE PERLEY AS ACTING MINISTER OF RAILWAYS-ORDERS IN COUNCIL
Mr. POULIOT:: 1.	On what dates and at what time of the day did the Right Hon. Sir George Perley act as Acting Minister of Railways and Canals last fall, and particularly in October, 1930?
2.	What was, (a) the date, (b) the number, (c) the subject matter of each order in council submitted to him while acting as such, to the privy council during that period?


Mr. MANION:: 1.	From October 7 to October 11, 1930.
2.	One order in council: October 8, 1930, P.C. 2370, re tenders for addition to station at Levis, P.Q.


QUEBEC PUBLIC WORKS-PUBLICATION OF CALLS FOR TENDERS
Mr. CASGRAIN:: 1.	What are the papers in which the Department of Public Works advertises the various calls for tenders in relation to public works to be done in the province of Quebec?
2.	By whom were these papers recommended to the Department of Public Works?
3.	In what papers did the Department of Public Works advertise calls for tenders in respect to the above-mentioned works, last year up to July 28?


Mr. STEWART (Leeds):: 1.
Location-Name of Newspaper Buckingham, Post; Chicoutimi, Le Progres; Granby, Leader-Mail; Lachute, Watchman; Montmagny, Le Peuple; Montreal, Gazette; Montreal, La Patrie; Montreal, Llllustration; Montreal, Star; Montreal, Citizen of Notre Dame de Grace; Montreal, Le Petit Journal; Montreal, Le Nord; Montreal, La Terre de Chez Nous; Montreal, Monitor; Montreal, LTtalia; Ormstown, Bulletin; Quebec, Chronicle-Telegraph; Quebec, L'Evenement; Quebec, Le Journal; Quebec, Semaine Commerciale; Quebec, Le Franc Parler; Rimouski, Le Progres du Golfe; Rimouski, La Voix de Gaspe; Riviere du Loup, Le St. Laurent; St. Hyacinthe, Le Courrier; St. Johns, News; Ste. Marie de Beauce, Le Guide; Shawinigan Falls, L'Echo du St. Maurice; Shawville, Equity; Sherbrooke, Record; Shebrooke, Forum; Sorel, Le Sorelois; Thetford Mines, Le Canadien; Three Rivers, Le Nouvelliste; Three Rivers, Le Bien Public; Three Rivers, Chronicle; Three Rivers, Le Drapeau.
2.	The department selects these papers from the newspaper directories.
3.
Location-Name of Newspaper Arthabaska, L'Union des Cantons de 1'Est; Beauceville, L'Eclaireur; Buckingham, Post;
Questions

Chicoutimi, Le Progres; Coaticook, Observer; Granby, Leader-Mail; Hull, Le Spectateur; Hull, Le Progres; Huntingdon, Cleaner; Jo-liette, L'Etoile du Nord; La Malbaie, Le Cour-rier du Nord; Levis, Le Quotidien; Montma-gny, Le Courrier; Montreal, La Terre de Chez Nous; Montreal, Le Mederic; Montreal, Le Canada; Montreal, La Riposte; Montreal, Herald; Montreal, E. I. C. News; Montreal, Jewish Eagle; Montreal, Petit Journal; Montreal, L'Autorite; Montreal, Le Bulletin; Montreal, Canadian Railroader; Montreal, Shipping Register and Travel Guide; Orms-town, Bulletin; Quebec, Le Soleil; Quebec, Bulletin de la Ferme; Quebec, L'CEil; Quebec, La Semaine Commereiale; Quebec, L'Action Liberale; Quebec, Les Affaires; Quebec, Le Voyageur de Commerce; Quebec, Guide de l'Acheteur; Quebec, L'Avenir; Richmond, Times-Guardian; Rimouski, Le Progres du Golfe; Riviere du Loup, Le St. Laurent; Rock Island, Stanstead Journal; Shawinigan Falls, L'Echo du St. Maurice; Sherbrooke, Record; Sherbrooke, La Tribune; Sorel, Le Courrier; St. Lambert, So. Shore Press; St. Hyacinthe, Le Clairon; St. Jerome, L'Avenir du Nord; St. Johns, Canada Francais; St. Justin, L'Echo; Thetford Mines, Le Canadien; Trois Rivieres, Chronicle; Valleyfield, Le Progres; Waterloo, Le Journal.


RIVIERE DU LOUP WHARF
Mr. POULIOT:: 1.	What amount was paid each month in 1930, (a) for truck service, (b) for taxi or automobile service, out of the vote for repairs at the Riviere du Loup wharf?
2.	What amount was paid to each taxi or automobile owner or chauffeur each month?


Mr. STEWART (Leeds):: 1.	(a) November, 1930-$150, trucking pile driver to and from Levis, P.Q., (b) Nil.
2.	Answered by No. 1.


FRASER RIVER PROTECTION WORK
Mr. REID:: 1.	Have any of the contracts which were let last year in connection with the protection work on the Fraser river been subsequently sublet by the original contractors?
2.	If so, what are the names of the subcontractors and what portion or portions of the contract work have been sublet?
3.	Was permission granted to the said contractors before any of the work was sublet?
4.	If so, by whom was permission granted, and what was the date of such authorization?
5.	What are the names of the contractors who have sublet any of the original contracts?


Mr. STEWART (Leeds):: 1.	No information.
2 to 5.-Answered by No. 1.
[Mr. H. A. Stewart.}


MONTREAL HARBOUR COMMISSION-DISMISSALS
[Stage Direction]
Mr. ST-PERE:
1.	Did the Montreal harbour commission dismiss some employees?
2.	If so, how many?
3.	How many employees of the Montreal harbour commission were on duty in the month of May, 1930?
Hon. Mr. DURANLEAU:: The following answers have been furnished by the Montreal harbour commissioners:
1.	Yes.
2.	Eleven employees were dismissed.
3.	1,661.


TELEGRAPH OPERATORS AND REPAIRERS-DISMISSALS
Mr. CASORAIN:: 1.	Were male and female operators and telegraph line repairers dismissed from their work since July 28, 1930, in the counties of Montmorency, Charlevoix, Saguenay and the north shore ?
2.	If so, why were they dismissed?
3.	By whom were complaints made?
4.	What was the nature of these complaints?
5.	Who are the new incumbents appointed in each case, in each county?
6.	By whom were they recommended?
7.	Did the new incumbents pass the examinations of the Civil Service Commission?


Mr. STEWART (Leeds):: 1 to 7. One. The telegraph office at Cariboo Islands, P.Q., was transferred from the residence of Johnny Jourdain to that of Joseph Chouinard from where it was transferred in 1926.


RIVIERE DU LOUP WHARF
Mr. POULIOT:: 1.	Who were, (a) the carpenters, (b) the labourers employed at the wharf at Riviere du Loup, Quebec, since September 8, 1930, to December 31, 1930?
2.	What amount has been paid to each person or firm for materials for repairs at Riviere du Loup wharf from September 8, 1930, to December 31, 1930?


Mr. STEWART (Leeds):: 1.	(a) Alexandre Ouellet, Emile Madore, Alfred Pelletier, J. B. Roussel, Alfred Potvin, Ludger Desrosiers, O. R. Nadeau, Jean Lepage, Philippe Soucy, Francois Cimon, Damase Cimon, Napoleon Danjou; (b) Guillaume Boucher, Armand Roussel, Joseph Beaulieu, Francois Meunier, Albert Carrier, Leonce Langevin, Philippe St. Laurent, Charles La-rouehe, Amedee Beaulieu, Joseph Marcotte, Arthur Fortin, Wilbrod Ouellet, Joseph Chasse, Francois Thorail, Alfred Dube, Elzear Belanger.

Questions as Orders jor Returns
2. La Ferronnerie Riviere du Loup, $257.31; South Shore PulLp & Lumber Oo., SOSO.04; Aime Dionne, $1,917.54; The Chinic Hardware Company, $559.67; C. E. Desjardins, $16.65; Paul Hodgson, $15.31; Emile Dube, $401.62; Fonderie & Machinerie Montsarrat, $8,13; Garage Marquis, $15.41; J. O. Nadeau, $7.50.


ROYAL GRAIN COMMISSION
Mr. BEAUBIEN:: 1.	What was the total cost of the Stamp commission appointed by the government to investigate the trading in futures?
2.	What amounts were paid to each of the three commissioners, (a) for fees, (b) for expenses ?
3.	What lawyers were engaged by the government or any department of the government on the commission, and what was paid to them, (a) for fees; (b) for expenses?


Richard Bedford Bennett: As the accounts are not
yet complete, the total cost of the commission cannot yet be stated.


Mr. BEAUBIEN:: The answer does not
convey the information requested.


Richard Bedford Bennett: That is the answer.


Charles-Philippe Beaubien: Why not leave the question on the order paper until the accounts are received, and then furnish the answer?



CANADIAN FARM LOAN ACT

Mr. CASGRAIN:: 1.	What are the names of the persons, in the parish of Sacre-Cceur, county of Saguenay, who have applied for loans on their properties under the provisions of the Farm Loan Act?
2.	For what amounts were loans requested?
3.	Were these applications granted?
4.	If so, when? If not, why?


Mr. CASGRAIN:: 1.	What are the names of the persons, in the parish of Bergeronnes, county of Saguenay who have applied for loans on their properties under the provisions of the Farm Loan Act?
2.	For what amounts were loans requested?
3.	Were these applications granted?
4.	If so, when? If not, why?


Mr. CASGRAIN:: 1.	What are the names of the persons, in the counties of Montmorency. Charlevoix and Saguenay. who have applied for loans on their properties under the provisions of the Farm Loan Act?
2.	For what amounts were loans requested?
3.	Were these applications granted?
4.	If so, when? If not, why?


Richard Bedford Bennett: These three questions relate to matters not of government record but having to do with the business of the Canadian Farm Loan Board. Further, it is not considered in the public interest for the board to give out information in detail respecting the applications received from and loans made to individuals.


Mr. RINFRET:: As the hon. member asking this question is not in the house I would suggest that it be allowed to stand.
Question stands.



CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS-NOEL PLOURDE

Mr. POULIOT:: 1.	Is it the intention of the Canadian National Railways to reinstate Mr. Noel Plourde, ex-conductor?
2.	If so, when?


Richard Bedford Bennett: Mr. Speaker, this question reads: "Is it the intention of the Canadian National Railways to reinstate Mr. Noel Plourde." Surely we have reached the stage where such a question should not be asked.


Mr. POULIOT:: I should not like to ask a question which causes discomfort to the cabinet.


Mr. MANION:: The cabinet has nothing at all to do with the question.



TORONTO FAIRS

Mr. LUCHKOVICH:: 1.	What were the net earnings and profits of the two Toronto fairs?
2.	What were the net earnings and profits of the class A fairs in Canada?
3.	What were the net earnings and profits of the class B fairs in Canada?
4.	What grants are the Toronto fairs now receiving?
5.	What grants are the A class and B class
fairs receiving?	.
0.	Where are the A class and B class fairs situated?


Mr. WEIR (Melfort):: We have not the information asked for in questions 1, 2 and 3.


Mr. SPEAKER:: That information can be given when the answer is furnished; in the meantime the question can stand.
Question stands.



QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS


Mr. VENIOT:: 1.	Has the government any record of production of grass seeds and clover for marketable purposes in different provinces of Canada during the calendar years 1928, 1929 and 1930?
2.	If so, what were the amounts for the different provinces, and what were wholesale prices in provinces where these seeds were produced?
Questions as Orders jor Returns

3.	What were the amounts of grass and clover seeds imported into Canada during the fiscal years ending March 31, 1929, 1930 and 1931, and what were the countries of origin?
4.	Have any increases or decreases in customs duties been made since March 31, 1921?
5.	If so, in what years and to what extent?
6.	Was any action taken on these items during the special session of September, 1930, if so, what was nature and extent?


Charles Hazlitt Cahan: Mr. Speaker, I file the return forthwith.


PENSION TRIBUNALS-APPEALS
Mr. MACKENZIE (Vancouver Centre):: 1.	How many appeals have been heard by the pensions tribunals up to May 15, 1931?
2.	What is the total cost of operating the pensions tribunals, including all travelling expenses, staff, salaries of members, etc., up to May 15, 1931?
3.	What is the total cost of operating the Pensions Appeal court, including all travelling expenses, staff, salaries of members, etc., up to May 15, 1931?
4.	How many pensions are actually now being paid to pensioners who have appeared before pensions tribunals and whose claims have been allowed?
5.	Is it the intention of the government to use any of the members of the former federal appeal board for the balance of their unexpired contract in any reorganization scheme the department may have in mind?
6.	At the present moment, how long would it take for an appeal filed now to be heard by the pensions tribunal if taken in its turn?


CANADIAN NATIONAL AND CANADIAN PACIFIC TRAIN SERVICES
Mr. BLAIR:: 1.	How many trains have been taken off the lines of the Canadian National railways since January 1, 1931?
2. How many trains were taken off the Canadian Pacific railway lines during the same period?
3. How many men were laid off by the Canadian National Railway since January 1, 1931?
4.	How many men were dismissed or laid off by the Canadian Pacific Railway during the same period?


Mr. BLAIR:: 1.	How many train services were curtailed or discontinued: (a) on the Canadian National railways; (b) on the Canadian Pacific railway, during the calendar year 1930?
2.	How many men were dismissed or laid off: (a) by the Canadian Pacific Railway; (b) by the Canadian National Railways, during the calendar year 1930?


Robert James Manion: Mr. Speaker, both these
questions refer to the Canadian Pacific as well as to the Canadian National Railways. We have no information as to the Canadian Pacific Railways, and the questions should stand as orders for returns so far as the Canadian National Railways is concerned.


TARIFF ON BUTTER
Mr. POULIOT:: 1.	What is the highest tariff that was levied on butter?
2.	On what date?
3.	What -was the lowest price at which butter sold, (a) during the last ten years, (b) during the last twenty years, (c) during the last thirty years ?
4.	Give the details showing when the price was lowest in each period?



WORLD WHEAT CONFERENCE-LONDON MEETING

Mr. CASGRAIN:: What was the cost of the wheat conference held recently at London, including the cost of cablegrams and telephones exchanged between the Prime Minister of Canada and Canada's representative in England, the hon. G. Howrard Ferguson?



UNOPPOSED MOTIONS FOR PAPERS


Mr. THAUVETTE:: For a copy of all reports and correspondence in the possession of the Postmaster General, regarding rural mail routes numbers 1 and 2, Vaudreuil station, village of Vaudreuil, Quebec.



STE. JUSTINE POSTMASTER

Joseph Thauvette: For a copy of all telegrams, letters, complaints, requests for inquiries and all other documents, exchanged with the Post Office Department and any member of the government, regarding the dismissal of Mr. Dollard Menard, as postmaster of Ste. Justine, and the appointment of his temporary or permanent successor.



ESTIMATES, 1930-31

Jean-François Pouliot: For a return showing a detailed list of items included in section (d) of vote 323 of the estimates 1930-31 with the amount of each item.
For a return showing a complete list of items included in section (d) of vote 65 of the supplementary estimates, 1930-31, of the Canadian National Railways, with the amount of each item.



ST. REMI, NAPIERVILLE, RURAL ROUTE NO. 1

Mr. DUPUIS:: For a copy of all reports, tenders and correspondence, in the possession of the Post Office Department, regarding rural route No. 1, of the parish of St. Remi, in the county of Napier-ville, Quebec, since August 1, 1930.



LA HAVE, NOVA SCOTIA, SEIZURE OF SUGAR

Charles Gavan Power: For a copy of all letters, telegrams, memoranda, correspondence, reports, etc.; regarding the seizure of some 55 bags of sugar at La Have, Nova Scotia, in the year 1930, between the minister and officials of the Department of National Revenue at Ottawa and the officials of

Unopposed Motions for Papers
said department and any other person or persons in the province of Nova Scotia, as well as the copy of instructions issued by the said department regarding the seizure, advertising and sale of tender of said sugar, the cost of said advertising and sale, and the gross and net proceeds of said sale.



INDIAN HEAD AND SUTHERLAND FORESTRY NURSERIES STATIONS

Mr. GARLAND (Bow River):: For a copy of all correspondence, letters, telegrams, memoranda and other documents passing between the Dominion-government and the province of Alberta since January, 1929, in which reference is made to the forestry nurseries stations at Indian Head and Sutherland.



GRANDES-BERGERONNES RIVER-STONE DREDGING

Joseph Philippe Baby Casgrain: For a copy of all correspondence and other documents in the possession of the Department of Public Works, at Ottawa and Quebec, in connection with certain stone dredging works in the river Grandes-Bergeronnes in the summer of 1929, and the payment of the sum of-$50 to be made to Mr. Victor Guay, mayor of the parish of Grandes-Bergeronnes, in the county of Saguenay, for doing the said works.



LES EBOULEMENTS-CHARLEVOIX TRANSPORTATION OF MAIL

Joseph Philippe Baby Casgrain: For a copy of all correspondence, calls for tenders and other documents, in the possession of the Post Office Department at Ottawa and Quebec, regarding tenders called for the transportation of mail from the wharf of Les Ebou-lements to the railway station of Les Eboule-ments, in the county of Charlevoix.



ST. SIMEON-ST. CHRETIEN MAIL CONTRACT

Joseph Philippe Baby Casgrain: For a copy of all documents in the possession of the Post Office Department at Ottawa and Quebec, regarding calls for tenders for the mail contract between St. Simeon and the post office of St. Chretien, in the parish of St. Simeon, county of Charlevoix.



ILE-AUX-COUDRES PIER, CHARLEVOIX LIGHTHOUSE KEEPER

Joseph Philippe Baby Casgrain: For a copy of all correspondence and other documents, including a copy of examinations passed by the various candidates who applied for the position of lighthouse keeper of the Ile-aux-Coudres pier, in the county of Charlevoix.



SAGUENAY COUNTY INDIAN RESERVES

Joseph Philippe Baby Casgrain: For a co.py of all correspondence and other documents, including pay lists, in the possession of the Department of Indian Affairs, under the
control of the Interior department, regarding construction and improvement works done during the year 1930, within the limits of the various Indian reserves in the county of Saguenay, and on the north shore of the St. Lawrence river.



CLEEVES, SASKATCHEWAN, POST OFFICE

Mr. VALLANCE (for Mr. McIntosh):: For a copy of all correspondence, letters, telegrams, reports, requests, and other documents, exchanged between the Post Office Department and any other person or persons since July 29, 1930, with reference to the post office of Cleeves, Saskatchewan.



GLASLYN, SASKATCHEWAN, POST OFFICE

John Vallance: For a copy of all correspondence, letters, telegrams, reports, requests, and other documents, exchanged between the Post Office Department and any other person or persons since July 29, 1930, with reference to the post office of Glaslyn, Saskatchewan.



POINTE-AU-PIC, PUBLIC BUILDING

Joseph Philippe Baby Casgrain: For a copy of all correspondence, letters, telegrams, requests and other documents, in the possession of the Public Works department at Ottawa and Quebec, in connection with the construction of a public building for the use of the Post Office Department, at Pointe-au-Pic, county of Charlevoix.



POINTE-AU-PIC, CHARLEVOIX, RURAL ROUTE NO. 1

Joseph Philippe Baby Casgrain: For a copy of all correspondence and other documents, including calls for tenders, in the possession of the Post Office Department at Ottawa and Quebec, regarding rural route No. 1, at Pointe-au-Pic, in the county of Charlevoix.



BAIE STE. CATHERINE, SAGUENAY COUNTY, WHARF

Joseph Philippe Baby Casgrain: For a copy of all correspondence and other documents, in the possession of the Public Works department at Ottawa and Quebec, and the minister or officers of the Roads Department at Quebec, with reference to the construction of a wharf at Baie Ste. Catherine, in the county of Saguenay.



CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS-RIVIERE DU LOUP STATION

Jean-François Pouliot: For a copy of all correspondence exchanged between (a) the right honourable Prime Minister, (b) the honourable Minister of Marine, (c) the honourable Postmaster General, (d) the honourable Solicitor General, (e) the honourable Secretary of State, (f) the private secretary of each one of them, and Mr. C. E. Dube, regarding the construction of a new Canadian National Railways station at Riviere du Loup, from Julv 29, 1930, to date.
Motions jor Papers


Jean-François Pouliot: For a copy of calls for tenders, notices published in the papers, estimates, and forms of tenders, in connection with the construction of a new Canadian National Railways station at Riviere du Loup, Quebec, which the Department of Railways and Canals has refused to sanction.


Jean-François Pouliot: For a copy of the letter or telegram sent by the honourable Minister of Marine to Mr. C. E. Dube, of Riviere du Loup, in reply to his letter on October 2, 1930, with reference to the Riviere du Loup station.


Jean-François Pouliot: For a copy of the correspondence exchanged between the honourable Minister of Railways and Canals and Mr. C. E. Dube, of Riviere du Loup, said correspondence having been mentioned in a letter of the said Mr. Dube to the honourable Minister of Marine, under date of October 2, 1930, with reference to tenders for the construction of a new station at Riviere du Loup.


Jean-François Pouliot: For a copy of the letter written by the honourable Minister of Railways and Canals to Mr. C. E. Dube, after October 18, 1930, in reply to his letter of October 14, 1930, regarding the station of Riviere du Loup.



MOTIONS FOR PAPERS


Jean-François Pouliot: For a return showing a complete list of the Canadian National Railways estimates, totalling between $8,000,000 and $9,000,000, which were voted by the House of Commons last year and which were switched to other purposes, as referred to by the honourable Minister of Railways and Canals on May 22, 1931, Hansard, page 2061, second column.


Robert James Manion: In regard to this motion and some of the others of the hon. member for Temiscouata, the national railways have represented to me that it would take weeks of the time of many of their clerks to secure the information asked for. Under the circumstances they protest against being asked to use their employees for purposes of this kind.


Jean-François Pouliot: It would relieve unemployment to answer these questions.


Robert James Manion: The employees that would have to do this work are employed at present.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: I think we
agreed the other evening that the practice of what is called "switching votes" was not a wise one. It would probably set the directors of the national railways to thinking about this if they were asked to give an accounting.


Richard Bedford Bennett: The practice has been going on for several years.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: But the sooner
it is stopped the better.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.

Joseph Philippe Baby Casgrain: For a copy of all correspondence and other documents in the possession of the authorities charged with the administration of farm loans, with regard to applications for loans made by virtue of the Farm Loan Act, in the counties of Montmorency, Charlevoix and Saguenay.


Richard Bedford Bennett: This motion as submitted cannot properly be carried. It strikes at the very foundation of the business of the Canadian Farm Loan Board. It has not been customary for private organizations to make public the names of people who apply for loans and who may or may not have been successful. The essence of the maintenance of this organization is that business is conducted in a businesslike way. The hon. member is not in his place, but I cannot see that that can make any difference. This is a farm loan board; it is a separate organization in which we are merely shareholders, and it is not in the public interest that the information should be given.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: The motion may be
allowed to stand in the absence of the hon. member.


Richard Bedford Bennett: I cannot see that that will make any difference.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: When the hon. member reads what my right hon. friend has said, he may drop the motion.


Richard Bedford Bennett: Yes.
Motion stands.



LES EBOULEMENTS, CHARLEVOIX COUNTY, MAIL SERVICE

Joseph Philippe Baby Casgrain: For a copy of all correspondence, calls for tenders and other documents in the possession of the Post Office Department at Ottawa and Quebec, with regard to tenders called for the transportation of mail from the station of Les Eboulements to the village of Les Eboulements, in the county of Charlevoix. .


Charles Hazlitt Cahan: Perhaps it is lack of understanding on my part, but this motion seems to be already covered by No. 10 which has been passed, in reference to the same matter. They seem to be exact duplicates.


Charles Gavan Power: They are not the same.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.

Motions for Papers

Joseph Philippe Baby Casgrain: For a copy of all correspondence and other documents, report or reports made by the chief regional engineer of the Canadian National Railways, regarding certain improvement works to be done on the shores of Riviere-du-GoufFre, at Baie St. Paul, in the county of Charlevoix, for the protection of bridge piers, the property of the Canadian National Railways.


Richard Bedford Bennett: This motion should not be passed. Reports made by engineers, in the course of their employment, to their chiefs have been held in the courts to be privileged under certain circumstances and it does not seem to be conducive to the proper conduct of the business of the Canadian National if an engineer's reports to his superior in connection with contemplated undertakings are to be brought down to the house. It is not quite fair to the railway company, and I trust the hon. member who is asking for the information will realize this. Any representation, of course, for the expenditure of money has to be laid before the house. We have no knowledge of the records and the Canadian National very properly complain that if engineers' reports for the guidance of the executive of the company are brought down to the house, this is putting them in a different position from that of their competitor with regard to their business.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: Perhaps this
request might be brought to the attention of the national railways.


Richard Bedford Bennett: I know that that is their view with respect to many requests made this session, and they want to know where it is going to end. That is why I mention the matter. I think the hon. gentleman will see the force of the objection to the production of an engineer's report to his superior. Of course, if action is taken, the executive of the railway must be responsible for it, and in some instances the capital has to be found by us; in others it may come within the sphere of maintenance operation. I think the hon. member who made the motion is not present, and therefore it may stand, but I think it should not pass.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: In the absence of the hon. member in whose name the resolution appears, it will stand. Possibly he may withdraw it in view of what has been said.



CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS-RIVIF.RE-DU-LOUP STATION

Jean-François Pouliot: For a copy of letters written by Mr. C. E. Dube, of Riviere du Loup, to Mr. W. U. Appleton, general manager of the Canadian National Railways at Moncton, New Brunswick, on August 23 and 30, 1930, regarding tenders called for the construction of a new station at Riviere du Loup.


Richard Bedford Bennett: This is a question about which the house should at least think before it adopts a motion of this character. A private citizen writes a letter to the general manager of the railways. It is now asked that that letter be brought down to the house. We should consider where such a procedure leads and I leave it entirely in the judgment of the house whether they think the railway business should be conducted in that fashion.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Dropped.


Jean-François Pouliot: I cannot drop the question because those letters have been partly published in a newspaper, so that it was the intention of the writer of the letters to make them public. As they have been made partly public, they must be published as a whole. That is why I ask for copies of those letters. Moreover, my right hon. friend told me this morning that the Canadian National will come to parliament again asking for money. Therefore we wish to know what is going on and that is why we are asking for information that has been made partly public by the writer of the letters.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: Perhaps the Prime Minister will agree there is a difference in this case, in that the letters referred to in the motion have already in part been made public by the writer.


Richard Bedford Bennett: There is nothing to that effect in the motion.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: I suggest it might be inserted in the motion. If part of the communication has been made, public, the whole of it should be brought down.


Robert James Manion: The Canadian National Railway is being treated as if it were a private enterprise such as the Canadian Pacific Railway Company. What right has an hon. member to demand the production of a letter from a private citizen to one of the officials of the Canadian National Railways? If I were an officer of the railway company I should say that I would not produce any such communication, and that would be the end of it.
Sir EUGENE F1SET:	The Minister of
Railways should remember that he is dealing with the eastern division of the Canadian National Railways. I think it has been the practice to deal with that division differently from the others. It has always been the practice to furnish more information with regard to the eastern division.
Motions for Papers


Charles Gavan Power: There is-


Pierre Édouard Blondin: The motion is not debatable. The Minister of Railways has raised a point of order to the effect that the resolution is not in order. I sustain the objection and order the motion to be stricken out.
Motion dropped.


Jean-François Pouliot: For a copy of the letter of Mr. C. E. Dube, of Riviere du Loup, ito Mr. W. U. Appleton, General Manager of .the Canadian National Railways at Moncton, dated September 12, 1930, regarding the station at Riviere du Loup, and also a copy of Mr. Appleton's reply to said letter.


Richard Bedford Bennett: The motion is similar to No. 24.


Robert James Manion: Yes, it is the same as No. 24.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: The same objection is
raised as was offered to the previous motion.


Jean-François Pouliot: I wish to say a word or two before any disposition is made of the motion. A letter from Mr. Dube to Mr. Appleton has been published in the press, but the reply has not been published. That is why I ask for the information.


Robert James Manion: I object to the passing of this resolution.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: I sustain the objection and order the motion to be stricken off the order paper.
Motion dropped.


Jean-François Pouliot: For a copy of the letter -written by the Right Honourable Prime Minister or by any other person acting under his instructions, to the Honourable Minister of Labour transmitting to. him the letters of Mr. C. E. Dube, dated August 25 and September 11, 1930.


Richard Bedford Bennett: The words "or by any other person acting under his instructions" might be somewhat out of order. At this date it may be difficult to secure the information desired, but if there are any letters we shall be glad to produce them.


Jean-François Pouliot: My right hon. friend knows I will do any thing in the world to please him, provided it is not against my convictions.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.

Joseph Philippe Baby Casgrain: For a copy of all documents, telegrams and other communications exchanged between the Prime Minister of Canada and Canada's representative in England, the Honourable G. Howard Ferguson, regarding the wheat conference held recently at London.
[Sir Eugene Fiset.l


Richard Bedford Bennett: I think it is a matter of common knowledge that the information here sought cannot be supplied. Communications between representatives of this country in England and the government here are privileged. Of course any action that is taken is a proper subject of comment, but if communications of this kind were made public, government could not be carried on. I inquired this morning and was told that the communications could not be supplied, and that it had never been the practice in the past to request that such be done.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: Is it the pleasure of the house to adopt the motion?


Richard Bedford Bennett: No.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: In the absence of the hon member in whose name the resolution stands-


William Lyon Mackenzie King: I agree with the remarks of the Prime Minister with regard to communications between this government and the high commissioner in London. Such communications, unless quite evidently intended otherwise, have always been regarded as privileged.


Richard Bedford Bennett: Yes, I am so informed.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: The resolution will be stricken out.
Motion dropped.
st. mary's road, p.e.i.-postmistress


Mr. MacLEAN:: For a copy of all orders, correspondence, reports, memoranda and letters; also a copy of all evidence, in the possession of the Postmaster General or any member of the government, regarding the dismissal of Mrs. Rosana MeGuigan, postmistress at St. Mary's Road, King's county, Prince Edward Island; also a tabulated statement giving .the expenses of each person attending .the trial and the amount paid to each, including the commissioner who carried on the investigation.


Richard Bedford Bennett: Unless information is
desired over a long period of time, the date should be put in.
Mr. MacLEAN; Since last August.


Pierre Édouard Blondin: The motion will be
amended by the addition of the words "since August, 1930".
Motion as amended agreed to.



CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS


[Stage Direction]
Right Hon. R. B. BENNETT (Prime Minister) moved that the house go into

Air Mail Service
committee of the whole at the next sitting to consider the following proposed resolution:
That the governor in council may authorize the guarantee of securities of the Canadian National Railway Company to an aggregate principal amount at any one time outstanding of $68,500,000, to meet expenditures made and indebtedness incurred during the calendar year 1931 (where amounts available from net operating income or investments may be insufficient), by or on behalf of the Canadian National Railways or any company controlled by or any company comprised in the Canadian National Railways, or in respect of Canadian Government railways entrusted to the Canadian National Railway Company.
He said:	His Excellency the Governor
General, having been made acquainted with the subject matter of this resolution, recommends it to the favourable consideration of the house.
Jean-François Pouliot: Before the motion is
adopted I would like to ask the right hon. Prime Minister-


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Order.


Richard Bedford Bennett: This is only a notice.


Jean-François Pouliot: Very well; my remarks also will be only a notice.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
William Lyon Mackenzie King: Mr. Speaker, may I ask the Prime Minister if it will be possible, in connection with the schedules involving tariff changes which he laid on the table this afternoon, to have printed as a part of the table containing such schedules the present rates so that it will be easier to compare them with the rates as proposed in the budget?


Richard Bedford Bennett: The resolutions would not be changed from the terms in which they are submitted. However, before they are taken up an effort will be made to comply with the suggestion of the right hon. gentleman. I spoke to the officials of the department along those lines on Saturday last.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: I suppose the same course will be followed as was followed at the special session; comparative tables will be printed in the votes and proceedings?


Richard Bedford Bennett: They could not be printed in the votes and proceedings for to-morrow.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: But at the
earliest date?


Richard Bedford Bennett: At the earliest possible date, yes; that will be done. In fact had it not been for the exceptional circumstances we should have been able to do it.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: Probably it
could be done by Thursday? I do not think it would take the department very long.


Richard Bedford Bennett: I do not like to promise my right hon. friend, but an effort will be made to do it.



BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Richard Bedford Bennett: Owing to the fact that Wednesday
will be the last of the short sitting days and that on that day a garden party will be given by Their Excellencies which hon. members will wish to attend, we should be able to sit only about an hour. I propose therefore to give notice that to-morrow at the adjournment we will move to adjourn until Thursday at three o'clock. I have spoken to my right hon. friend opposite concerning the matter, and we have thought that rather than sit for only one hour it would be advisable to adjourn from Tuesday evening until Thursday.



AIR MAIL SERVICE


[Stage Direction]
On the orders of the day:
Hon. P. J. VENIOT (Gloucester):: May
I ask the Prime Minister a question in regard to the air mail service? I hope his answer will be in the negative. There is a report in the press stating that air mail services are all to be cancelled.


Richard Bedford Bennett: I am glad the hon. member has
brought the matter up, because the report in the press was not correct. The truth is that instructions have been given that on June 15 a notice of cancellation be given with respect to all air mail contracts because the contractors have intimated that they might be able to carry on the work on a different basis from that which now obtains. Before any action was taken it was thought desirable that the government should be free to continue or discontinue the services, as it might deem wise. For those reasons not cancellation but merely

. COMMONS
Embargo on Russian Goods
notice of it within the terms of the contracts has been given with respect to all air mail services.


Peter John Veniot: For one month?


Richard Bedford Bennett: Yes. I think one contract extends for sixty days, but one month is the usual term. It does not follow that all air mail contracts are to be cancelled, but means that the government is in a position to deal properly with the matter.


Peter John Veniot: The newspaper report has
left an improper impression.



RAILWAYS AND SOPPING

Mr. R. W. GRAY (West Lambton):: Can the hon. Minister of Railways (Mr. Manion) tell us when the special committee on railways and shipping will begin their sittings?


Robert James Manion: The committee will be called together very shortly, probably this week, and at least they will be able to deal with last year's expenditures.



EMBARGO ON RUSSIAN GOODS-GOVERNMENT BY ORDER IN COUNCIL-AMENDMENT, MR. BOURASSA

[Stage Direction]
The house resumed from Wednesday, May 27, consideration of the motion of Mr. Guthrie (for the Minister of Finance) for committee of supply, and the amendment thereto of Mr. Bourassa.
Mr. ARMAND LaVERGNE (Montmagny): Mr. -Speaker, I ask the indulgence of hon. members in discussing the amendment of the hon. member for Labelle (Mr. Bourassa), especially as I have to answer one of the oldest and most eloquent members of this house, and to follow the impressive speech which has been delivered this afternoon by the right hon. leader of the government (Mr. Bennett).
I am not one of the upholders of the church of which the hon. member for Labelle spoke last Wednesday; I wish I were. I am merely a poor sinner in that respect and would not like to take away from the crown of those who deserve them the laurels that they have self-imposed upon themselves. In fact I would not have spoken at all if the hon. member had deemed the question which I put to him the other day fit for an answer. I must confess that I remember the days when he would have been quite ready to furnish an answer, but I suppose times have changed. After an

assertion by him I asked for some information, but he refused it, and this forces me to impose upon the house my few and short remarks to-night.
The hon. member for Labelle asserted, if I remember correctly-and he will correct me if I am wrong-that revolutions were always organized in the country involved and were brought about in an effort to redress intolerable grievances. I was just rising to ask him was this assertion quite correct, when he silenced me by referring me to the rules of the houses. These do not prohibit one member from putting a question to another, but undoubtedly he was within his. rights in declining to answer. If I remember well, the French revolution, quoted by him had not its origin in France but, as has been abundantly proven, was organized in Germany, in England and in Austria. The Russian revolution-I would not say it was dear to the heart of the hon. member, but he quoted it frequently in his speech-was not organized in Russia; it was organized by Lloyd George in England, by certain persons in Germany-
An hon. MEMBER:: And by Premier
King in Canada.
Mr. LaVERGNE :	It may be that birds
of a feather flock together; my hon. friend knows better than I do. Certainly it was organized by Germany, because to-day everyone knows that Rasputin was a paid agent of the German government. It follows that my very modest question could have been answered in a word and the house would have been spared the trouble of hearing me tonight.
The amendment moved by the hon. member for Labelle is very general in its terms and expresses the view that government by order in council should not be prolonged and that such government is contrary to our institutions. I cannot say whether this is intended as a reflection on the past government, which it is not my province to defend, or a slur on the present government; but I can say this, that the order in council barring Russian goods was approved by the Quebec government, the Catholic hierarchy, and authorized by this house at the special session last September by the legislation that was then enacted.
But I am just wondering whether there was not an ulterior motive to the hon. gentleman's motion. There is no doubt, Mr. Speaker-and no one knows it better than hon. members to your left-that the preamble of the order in council passed by the present government barring Russian goods

Embargo on Russian Goods
staggered our hon. friends of the Liberal party in Quebec and put them in a very awkward position. Was the amendment moved by the hon. member for Labelle for the purpose of restoring to them a little of their lost courage and putting them again on their feet? I would not say so, but in my opinion it looks somewhat as if that were its purpose. I may say to my hon. friends to your left, Mr. Speaker, and especially to my hon. friend from Temiscouata (Mr. Pouliot), whom I see in front of me, that their allies, the Taschereau government, took the lead in this question. The hon. member for Labelle, who speaks for the church, forgot to endorse the action taken by the Archbishop of Montreal, Monseigneur Gauthier, who also condemned Russia. In attacking the government I wonder whether with his courage of old he goes to the very bottom of the question, because I claim not only the privilege but the honour to have been the first person in the Dominion to present my congratulations to the government of Canada upon the action they took in barring Russian goods and saying in effect: We will have no truck or trade with the bolshevists. I would have been happy for more than one reason if, instead of denouncing the Pharisees, of which I am one I suppose; if instead of denouncing the hypocrites, of which I am one also I suppose, the hon. member had told us whether he was in favour of trade with Russia-he forgot to tell us-and whether he was in favour of Canada, a Christian country, encouraging what is going on in Russia at the present time. That was what we expected from him in the province of Quebec, and that is what we have not heard. That is where we were highly disappointed, I must say. It is easy to throw sarcasm at the government, based on the variations of the past government, which accepted trade with Russia, refused it and accepted it again. That does not settle the question. The question is higher than that; it is the fight between two civilizations. There is the civilization of Russia, if it may be so called, and the materialistic ideals, if such exist, on the one side, and the great civilizations which we defend, on the other. The hon. member for Labelle may have said, with laughter in his voice and irony in his mind, that this government were crusaders. I may be very reactionary; I may be only a humble habitant of the province of Quebec, representing humble habitants, but I am glad and proud to have been the first to say and to repeat that when the government of Canada stopped trade with Russia, the government acted as crusaders. It is all very well to say that a government
2211C-1401
which cannot sustain its acting by deeds has no power; I think the hon. member was quoting the late Mr. Guizot, who said:
A self-governing nation does not speak unless it is capable of making its word good.
I claim first of all that we have made our words good. I also claim that we gave an example to the world, and I have not learned at the school of the hon. member for Labelle -though I have been there for the last twenty years-that one should stop doing a good deed because it seems impossible or not feasible. The thing is to do right; to thine own self be true. Try to do what you think is right. If it is not feasible or if it is not possible it does not matter; you will have tried and done your best. Men may pass republics may pass, even monarchies may pass, but the eternal words of truth and justice remain, and the day will come when they will be accepted.	;
We have been told by several hon. members that we are ignorant of ^what has gone on in Russia. I have in my hand a book by Mr. Sokoloff, having to do with the official investigation of the assassination of the czar of Russia, his son, his wife and three danghters. I do not know whether or not hon. members have read it; I am sure some have. I ask you, Mr. Speaker, if there is one modern monstrosity of horror and disgusting crime, such as that revealed in this book. None denies it; no, no one denies it, but there are many people on the other side who get up and defend it. No one denies it; no one defends it, but there are many members willing to rise in their places and say, "Let us put the clean hand of Canada into the bloody hand of a murderer."


Charles-Philippe Beaubien: Is it not a fact that the representative of Russia slept with Mr. Ferguson during the wheat conference?
Mr. LaVERGNE: My hon. friend probably knows more about people sleeping together than I do. I will come to that presently.


Charles-Philippe Beaubien: They dined together-
Mr. LaVERGNE :	They may have dined
together.


Charles-Philippe Beaubien: -and wined together.
Mr. LaVERGNE: Yes, and wined together, which is probably more shocking. By the way, may I say to my hon. friend from St. Denis that it is very easy to defend the French people and the French language in this house when no one attacks them. The hon. member should have got up in the good old days of the Liberal party, and spoken in the province of Quebec and in other places as I did. Then
Embargo on Russian Goods

he would not be so noisy in the House of Commons. It is easy to be elected by a majority of 17,000, by prejudice and appeals to passion.


Mr. BOUCHARD:: If my hon. friend speaks like that he has no title to call himself a habitant from Quebec.
Mr. LaVERGNE: No title to it? I think I have a title just as good as that of my hon. friend. My family have been here for three hundred years. They were all habitants except myself, and they were not paid habitants, as some others are. That title is as good as any on the other side of the house; my hon. friend knows to whom I refer.
I shall not deal further with the assassination of the emperor of Russia, together with his family, in a cellar in Russia, by friends of my hon. friends opposite. Now I take up a book written by a bolshevist; it is called "Naked Russia", by Panait Istrati. My hon. friend .from Kamouraska, who is a very well educated man, knows what this author says, I am sure. This man is a bolshevist who has gone back on Russia.


Mr. DENIS (Translation):: In what year
was this book published?
Mr. LaVERGNE (Translation): In 1929.


Louis Édouard Fernand Rinfret: My hon. friend could not read a bad book.
Mr. LaVERGNE: Quite right; can he read at all? This book is written in French; if it were in Russian probably my hon. friend could understand it better. Speaking of the five-year plan so much eulogized in this house, I see the following at page 315, where Mr. Istrati quotes Lenin a member of the Soviet government, as saying:
Au eontraire, 5. la base du plan il faut admettre que notre pays aura a defendre le socialisme les armes a la main.
The translation is, "At the basis of the five-year plan we must admit that our country will have to defend socialism with the force of arms." Are we going to help them with force? They know very well that their five year plan is doomed to failure. They know very well that it is based on communism and slavery. They know it is dependent upon forced labour.


Edward James Young: Why are you afraid of it
then?


An hon. MEMBER:: Do you wish it?
Mr. LaVERGNE: Let me answer the hon. gentleman. I am opposed to it for three reasons. In the first place-and I know my hon. friend will not like this-I am a Con-

servative from the province of Quebec. Perhaps that is not a good reason. Well, secondly, I am opposed to it because I am a Christian.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Oh, oh.
Mr. LaVERGNE:	My hon. friends laugh;
I see nothing amusing in that statement. And in the third place, I am not a socialist. But I will mention another reason. I was not going to speak about this but my hon. friend forces me to do so. I did not intend to quote the pope, and I do not suppose he is an authority whom the hon. gentleman would accept. But the pope was quoted the other day by my hon. friend from Labeille; and the pope, who is an authority so far as I am concerned, has condemned three things in his encyclical.


Jean-François Pouliot: If you quote the pope,
Long Lake will not support you.
Mr. LaV'ERGNE: I have heard that sort of argument in the province of Quebec for the last twenty years. May I say, Mr. Speaker, that I have more sympathy with and respect for members of this house who are of Anglo-Saxon and Protestant origin, more respect for the Ku Klux Klan, than I have for Canadians of my race who during the last twenty years have not had the courage to defend that race. Does my hon. friend wish to have me go into details?


Joseph-Arthur Denis: No, I do not
require them.
Mr. LaVBRGNE: No, he does not; he is too wise to ask for them. In the interruption from my esteemed friend from Temiscouata (Mr. Pouliot), you have, Mr. Speaker, some idea of what the Conservatives of Quebec have had to fight against in the last twenty years. This has been the attitude: "You English-speaking people are too fanatical to give us our rights, because you are not educated enough;" and at the same time hon. members were willing to accept anything coming from that quarter so long as it was sugar-coated enough for them to swallow. My hon. friend from Beauce (Mr. Lacroix), who is one of the wealthy members of the Liberal party, knows that in 1905 I was a Liberal. Does he know why I abandoned that party? Let him ask my hon. friend from Labelle.


Joseph-Arthur Denis: It was a good
riddance.
Mr. LaVERGNE: No doubt it was a good riddance-so good that a year or two afterwards that party lost power. But this, Mr. Speaker, is beside the question. I am quite willing to answer questions, but I hate to see

Embargo on Russian Goods
my hon. friends like so many hens on a hot griddle. Now I will come back to the question I was discussing a moment ago, the pope's encyclical. If I can get my hon. friend from Weybum to accept this authority I shall have at least one conversion to my credit. First of all, the pope condemned communism, and in the second place he declared that no man could be a Catholic and a socialist at the same time. And thirdly-I am sure my hon. friend read the letter, and on this third point I am sorry for my hon. friends from Quebec -he condemned liberalism.
Mr. ST-PERE: Not the way you understand it. The pope condemned liberalism in his interpretation of the word.
Mr. LaVERGNE: I know one thing. I may understand it one way and my hon. friend another, but I think we can agree that the pope condemned it.
Mr. ST-PERE: You have been speaking for the last fifteen minutes against your Quebec compatriots. You are not the only one on the side of orthodoxy.
Mr. LaVERGNE: There is a great deal of difference between the holy father and the St.-Pere.
Mr. ST.-PERE: There is no difference so far as doctrine is concerned. Let me repeat that my hon. friend is not the only one who is on the side of orthodoxy.
Mr. LaVERGNE: I do not pretend to be at all.
Mr. ST.-PERE: That is what the hon. gentleman has been pretending for the last twenty minutes-that he is the Simon Pure of Quebec.
Mr. LaVERGNE: The other day we were condemned as hypocrites because we repudiated bolshevism and would not trade with Russia. It has been suggested that I am a pharisee. May I point out that it is not I who brought up this question; it was first brought up by the hon. member for Labelle and then by the hon. member for Weyburn who asked me a question. I do not see why my hon. friends would get cross. It was not I who condemned liberalism; it was the holy father of our own church.


An hon. MEMBER:: The hon. member for Long Lake (Mr. Cowan).
Mr. LaVERGNE: I do not know whether the hon. member for Long Lake did.


Charles-Philippe Beaubien: Does my hon. friend
mean to say that a man cannot be a Catholic and a Liberal at the same time?
Mr. LaVERGNE: So far as the letter indicates, a man cannot be a good Catholic and a socialist at the same time. So far as I am concerned, a man cannot be a good citizen and a Liberal.


Charles-Philippe Beaubien: May I ask the hon. member another question. During the time he was-


Pierre Édouard Blondin: Without the permission of the hon. member for Montmagny (Mr. La-Vergne) the hon. member may not interrupt him. The hon. member for Montmagny has, I think, allowed great latitude.


Charles-Philippe Beaubien: The hon. member has sat down, and I take it he allows the question. He said a man could not be a Liberal and a good citizen or a good Catholic. May I ask him this: While he was a Liberal, was he or was he not a good citizen and a good Catholic?


An hon. MEMBER:: Liberalism was different then.
Mr. LaVERGNE: The hon. gentleman has asked a question. My hon. friends will not allow me to answer. I wonder if they have ever heard of a man named Paul of Tarsus.


An hon. MEMBER:: Does the hon. member mean Saul?
Mr. LaVERGNE:	He changed his name
and his convictions, so did I.


Charles Gavan Power: He only did it once.
Mr. LaVERGNE:	He only did it once,
but he maintained the same attitude. I wish the hon. member for Quebec South (Mr. Power) would do the same.


Charles Gavan Power: I am not comparing myself to Saul; I do not know the man.
Mr. LaVERGNE:	It is worth what it is
worth, although it may not be worth very much.


An hon. MEMBER:: We agree with that
statement.
Mr. LaVERGNE: I am accustomed to all these arguments, I have heard them long, and I am surprised that the hon. members did not bring sticks and stones with them as in days gone by in Quebec.


An hon. MEMBER:: Come back to the
embargo.
Mr. LaVERGNE: If I have left the embargo it is not because of any fault of my own. I dare any hon. member to condemn this order in council in the province of Quebec. I dare them to stand up whenever they want to, or wherever they want to; I dare
Embargo on Russian Goods

them to take this attitude in Quebec. I give that dare beginning with the noisy senseless one and ending with the noiseless noisy ones. This fight is not a new thing in the province of Quebec, it is as old as the eternal battle between good and evil. If hon. members desire to be sarcastic and call this a mere gesture, I reply that it is only our duty to set an example to the world. As Christians, as Canadians, as a civilized people we should have nothing to do with a nation of murderers and atheists. If this government had done nothing else it would deserve the approval and gratitude, not only of Canada but of the whole civilized world. Hon. members say that we had no mandate to take this action, but let them get up and condemn this so-called gesture. The Catholic hierarchy has approved of it and our mandate as Christians is imperative. They will not get up and condemn this openly, but by coming in the back door they try to minimize it by sarcasm or ridicule. Let them come straight to the question.
I am a member of a race which has been in this country for three hundred years. We have been taught to respect authority, to respect the king, to Tespect the law and to believe that wealth is necessary and should not be looked upon with hatred, jealousy and envy. Do hon. members believe they are going to settle this social question by teaching hatred and envy? Every man is equal, but when? Not until death. Everyone has not the wonderful health of the hon. member for Beauce. Everyone has not an equal amount of wealth.


Mr. LACROIX:: The hon. member should
not be jealous.
Mr. LaVERGNE: I am not jealous why, my capital has not got to go begging the oanks on the eve of fortune, but I do not contend that we should look upon wealth with envy. My only capital is my honour and I would not exchange that for all the wealth of any hon. member.


Joseph-Arthur Denis: You remind me of a person who, having lost his political standing in 1911, is endeavouring to recover it.
Mr. LaVERGNE:	I am sorry the hon.
member does not understand what I am saying.


Joseph-Arthur Denis: I will repeat my remarks in
the English language.
Mr. LaVERGNE: I think I understand the French language as well as does the hon.

member. I rose in my place to restate and to reaffirm my confidence in the government and the Prime Minister (Mr. Bennett) in having passed this order in council. Jacques Cartier, a Frenchman, came to this country four hundred years ago and planted a cross on the shores of Gaspe. That cross is still there and as long as I have breath in my body and blood in my veins it shall remain.
Amendment (Mr. Bourassa) negatived.
Motion (Mr. Bennett) agreed to and the house went into committee of supply, Mr. LaVergne in the chair.



DEPARTMENT OF FISHERIES

[Stage Direction]
Civil government-Fisheries, salaries and contingencies, $212,860.
Mr. DUFF:: I notice an increase of SI,000 in the salary of the deputy minister. Will the minister explain that?


Hon. E. N. RHODES (Minister of Fisheries) :: Unless one were to say that the work of the Department of Fisheries were less important than that of other departments and the consideration less important, I can see no good reason why the salary of the Deputy Minister of Fisheries should not be placed in line with those of deputy ministers of other departments. Having in mind the importance of the fisheries, the importance the government attaches to it, I felt that this office ought not in the matter of salary to be placed in a position inferior to that of similar offices in other departments of government.


William Duff: If the minister's argument is good, the amount should be 810,000 instead of $8,000. The salary should be the same as that, for instance, of the Deputy Minister of Finance, or of the Deputy Minister of External Affairs. The only objection I have is that this year, when we are talking about economy, when conditions are not as they should be, when, as the Minister of Finance said this afternoon, we are going to have a deficit of something like $75,000,000, is not the right time to increase the salary of the Deputy Minister of Fisheries. It must be remembered that only two years ago this gentleman was receiving a salary of $6,000. Last year the government increased it to $8,000, and now there is another increase of $1,000. Under the circumstances $8,000 should be sufficient for this position.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: If the question is one of economy, I may say to my hon. friend that we have saved this amount several times over

Supply-Fisheries
in the department itself, because, for example, there is included in this item the salary of a secretary to the minister amounting to S3,960. As a matter of fact I have no private secretary, and I hope to be able to carry on without one, that is to say, without a private secretary brought into the department. I am using a clerk whom I already found in the department, and he is carrying on the work at an additional salary of $600 a year, so that I am saving 83,360 on that one item. A number of deputy ministers receive $9,000, and my explanation to my hon. friend was the exact explanation I gave to my colleagues, namely that it would be inconsistent with the value of the fisheries to the country if with respect to salary we deliberately placed the deputy minister in a position inferior to that of deputy ministers of other departments of government.


William Duff: But he was in that position last year and the year before. He had less than the others.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: What are all these extra sundries?


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: The Department of Fisheries has not hitherto had a minister, and this is only for the purpose of placing the department in position comparable to that of other departments which have ministers. There was [DOT] a minister, but for only a short time, and this department has never been placed in line with other departments with respect to that item.


[Stage Direction]
Item agreed to.
To assist in the conservation and development of the deep sea fisheries and the demand for fish, $190,000.
Peter John Veniot: On this item I should like to discuss the question of salmon fisheries. The committee will remember that in the last three or four weeks I drew the attention of the Minister of Fisheries to the new set of regulations which have been adopted by the department in connection with the salmon fisheries, particularly in the province of New Brunswick. I made the suggestion that the matter should be further looked into, as the regulations were not acceptable to the salmon fishermen generally. I was not at that time referring principally to the drift net fishermen but to the fishermen who fish along the coast and open bays and in the rivers by net. The minister told me at that time that it was his intention to send Mr. Found or some other representative of the department to look further into the matter and see if the hardships complained of could be met. Mr. Found went down, and he did meet quite a number of complaints. I understand he held meetings as Charlo, Chatham and St. John. On his return he recommended doing away with the new licence, as well as with the regulations which had been rather strict concerning the placing of nets out of fishing gear. In doing that however he substituted another regulation. I hold in my hand a memorial, a copy of which was sent I believe to the Department of Fisheries, objecting to the new regulation which calls for the placing of nets out of fishing gear. In the past the nets were supposed to be out of fishing gear from sundown on Saturday night until sunrise on Monday morning. Even then the regulation was very difficult to observe. Many times it was impossible to raise the nets along the shores and bays on Saturday nights owing to frequent storms in the Baie des Chaleurs. The same did not apply where nets were being used for salmon fishing in the river. The fishermen in certain portions of the Miramaehi would not be affected as much as those in the estuary or the bay of the Miramaehi, along the Baie des Chaleurs, in the Restigouche bay or up as far as Heron island. As I say the regulation was difficult to observe. The fishery wardens were very generous however in their treatment of the fishermen when they say it was imposible owing to storms to comply with the law. Where it was obviously impossible to comply with the law, violations were not recognized. Under the newly amended regulations which have come into effect since the visit of Mr. Found to the province of New Brunswick the fishermen are required to raise their nets out of fishing gear on Saturday morning at eight o'clock and leave them in that condition until eight o'clock on Monday. In order to have them properly out of fishing gear however the regulations designate that ten feet of the nets shall be separated or open. Fishermen are complaining, especially along the bay shores that that regulation is unreasonable. In order to comply with the regulation and be within the law they would have to readjust their nets at considerable cost. The lacing of a portion of their nets to the lead would have to be done, and such lacing would have to be taken off each Friday night or Saturday morning at eight o'clock^ If a storm came on the regulation could not be complied with. Should a storm arise on Sunday or Monday and continue as it often does in Baie des Chaleurs for two or three days at a stretch, the fishermen have their nets out of fishing gear for three or four days in-
Supply-Fisheries

stead of only two days. Salmon is caught within one or two miles of my home, and I have had occasion frequently to visit salmon stands, especially those stands which are held by poles and not weights, as we have in some sections of the bay. Besides, the fishermen are often required to have their nets out of order for two or three days during the week, because the regulations provide that if nets cannot be put out of fishing gear on Saturday might and be left out for two days, then on Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday the fishermen shall put them out of fishing gear to make up for the two days lost between Saturday and Monday. According to the fishermen in my locality such a regulation is impracticable and cannot be complied with, and to insist upon it would simply drive them put of business. It is for that reason I appeal to-night to the minister to go carefully into the matter. I understand that this is regarded as one method of allowing the salmon to have free access to the spawning grounds. Nobody wishes more than myself to see the salmon given sufficient access to their spawning grounds, but the protection afforded to the salmon for that purpose in connection with the fishing nets along the shore is not carried out in relation to the spawning grounds themselves. It may 'be said that drift net fishermen have caused a great deal of destruction of the salmon on the way to the spawning ground, and to some extent that is said also of the net fishermen along the shores of the bays and im the rivers. I am told that this argument is based on scientific research. I hold in my hand a book on scientific research, "A Survey of Salmon Fisheries in Eastern Canada," by W. L. Calderwood. I have also another book written by two professors, "A Report on Salmon Fisheries of the Bale des Chaleurs and Adjacent Waters," by Earle B. Phelps, of Columbia university, and L. Belding of Boston. The minister was kind enough to pass me these two books and told me if I made a study of them he was sure I would be convinced that stringent regulations were necessary. I have gone through them and studied them carefully. In one of them I find the following report:
On the other hand our scientific knowledge of the conditions upon which the productivity of the salmon in Canadian waters depends is far too meagre to permit of any definite statement concerning the quantitative effect of any given catch by the drifters or others upon the river stocks.
The report continues:
The present governmental restrictions limiting the fishing to certain areas to five nights of the week during the season, May 15 to August 1, and to nets of specified dimensions,

is admitted by dominion officials to represent their best judgment in the absence of scientific data. In particular, information has therefore been entirely lacking as to the actual course of migration of fish on their way to the various rivers. In fact, some doubt has been expressed by certain students of this problem as to whether the fish taken in the drift nets are actually migrating to the rivers for the purpose of reproduction or whether they are really in their open-sea environment.
That being the case, how can the department issue regulations based upon that knowledge and that research for the purpose of putting out of gear the nets along the shore and in our rivers? I think the department ought to hesitate until they have further knowledge on which to base such strict regulations. The minister must not forget that there are hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in this industry by our own people, and such regulations as these, especially the regulation which forces them to place their nets out of gear in the manner I have described, will drive our people out of business. If in order to protect the salmon spawning grounds strict regulations must be enforced, then I would advise the departmental officials to see that strangers coming into the country strictly observe the laws in connection with the spawning grounds, because these men make their camps within a gunshot of those grounds.
It may be argued that the salmon rivers leased for sporting purposes are well guarded. That is true. I do not believe that there * are better fish wardens and guardians in any part of the dominion than on the upper stretches of the Miramichi, and Restigouche, and the Nipisguit and Tetagouche or Middle rivers. But there is the place where the greatest care should be exercised, and a limit imposed on the number of salmon caught by those anglers. If in order to make sport more "sporty"-if I may use the word-for these men during their week or ten days fishing, we must enact regulations to put our own people out of business, then it is time a very searching inquiry should be made.
I know another argument will be used, that the drift salmon fishermen are increasing almost without limit, as are their boats and the size of their nets. But I understand the net fishermen under those regulations are allowed to operate only within a certain number of miles of the mouth of the bay. It will be pointed out that owing to this fishing by drifters, as well as by the shore-net men, the salmon have been depleted in the rivers. I have here a table extracted from one of the books loaned me by the minister, giving the number of boats using drift nets for the years 1922 to 1930. This is the table:

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Year	No. of boats
1922		 49
1923		 50
1924		 50
1925		 52
1926		 52
1927		 80
1928		 108
1929		 136
1930		 149
I am told that calculated on the observations of 50 boats, 142,000 salmon were caught by drift nets in 1930. But I claim that that estimate is not correct, and cannot be used to prove that the salmon were fewer in number in the rivers where they go to spawn, because in that year took place the largest catch in the history of anglers on the Restigouche river. In 1928, with 108 boats engaged, there were only 27,600 salmon caught; that is the smallest catch on record with the exception of that of 1926, 23,400. In 1928 not an angler on any of the rivers, the Miramichi, the Nipisguit and the Restigouche, ever complained of the number of the salmon decreasing, while the number of salmon caught by the drift netters increased. This record shows at the same time there never was a season in which the salmon were so plentiful in the Restigouche as in
1930.
That being the case, if these reports are at all correct, and if the department is relying upon them as the foundation for initiating these stringent regulations, then I say it is not because either of the drifters or of the shore net fishermen that salmon are scarce in the rivers that I have mentioned. Local conditions are the cause, and very often the present cause. For instance, especially on the Nipisguit river, and to a large extent on the Restigouche, and the Miramichi years ago but not to-day, a large quantity of lumber comes down. On the Nipisguit the salmon go up as far as Nipisguit falls; they cannot get beyond that point. Their spawning grounds are to be found at the foot of the falls and in the Papineau branch of the Nipisguit. The immense quantity of lumber coming down the Nipisguit river is all stored or boomed between Papineau falls, five miles above the present mill, and the mill site, and there up to last year the quantity of lumber was so great that the water being low the salmon had no passage and could get up to the spawning grounds only in very small numbers. The same is applicable in some years to the Restigouche river. In addition, there are seasons when we have low water in the rivers, when the spring freshets run off swiftly and we
have no rains in June and July. The water becomes so low that in some of these rivers the salmon cannot get back to the spawning grounds.
What has happened in the county of Gloucester? Entering into the bay of Chaleur we have four rivers, the Tetagouche, Middle river, Little Nipisiguit and Big Nipisiguit. Up to four years ago we never caught any salmon and saw only an occasional salmon in the Tetagouche river. To-day the Tetagouche is not only a salmon fishing river but a spawning ground as well, which was not the case five or six years ago. Until a few years ago a salmon never had been caught in Middle river, but to-day it is a salmon river. The Little Nipisiguit, where salmon have been caught at odd times during the past few years, to-day is filled with salmon every season. There is almost as good salmon fishing on the Little Nipisiguit, when the water is reasonably high, as there is on the Big Nipisiguit river.
I am pointing out these facts to show the reason why salmon do not always go up such rivers as the Restigouche to the spawning grounds in large quantities. This is due to local conditions, and the report referred to is sufficient proof that the department has no scientific grounds for adopting regulations to protect the salmon on their way to the spawning grounds, which will throw the fishermen of our coast out of business and cause them to lose the capital they have invested.
I could go on giving reasons why these regulations should not continue, but let me show the scope of the inquiry by these professors into conditions on the Miramichi and the Restigouche in northern New Brunswick. They did not include the Nipisiguit, Tetagouche or Middle rivers, all good spawning grounds. Why was it these scientific men left out some of the best spawning grounds in the province of New Brunswick when they were investigating the conditions under which salmon .went up those rivers? They did not make that investigation; the report does not show it. On page 9 there is a paragraph referring to the catch in the Restigouche by anglers. They say that in 1922 there was a good catch on the Restigouche river and a poor general catch; that is, a poor catch by the nets along the bay of Chaleur. That is another proof that local conditions govern entirely. Then they go on:
In particular we note that the low years, 1919 and 1928, on the Restigouche cannot be attributed to local conditions.
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Why do they say that? They give the reason:
The year 1930 established a new high record for thirty years.
Is that a good argument? Is that any proof that the conditions existing in 1922 were not due to local reasons? The very fact that in 1930 a record was set for the past thirty years seems to me directlly contrary to the conclusions they have drawn. I do not want to take up too much of the time of the committee, but certainly I do wish to implore-I will go that far, and use that word-the minister to go more fully into this question. I have every confidence in his deputy in a miatter of this kind, but I fear the deputy does not sufficiently grasp the local conditions along the bay of Chalieur and the rivers I have mentioned. It is an easy matter for the fishermen in a river which is land-locked, like the Miramichi-and if any fishing were allowed by nets in the Nipisiguit the same would apply-to put their nets out of commission between Saturday and Monday. There are no great storms on those land-locked rivers which would interfere with the placing of those nets out of gear, but when you take the whole shore of the bay of Chaleur on the New Brunswick side, beginning away down and following right up through Gloucester county, through Shippigan, Grande Anse, Stonehaven, Salmon Beach, Lower Beresford, Green Point, Belledune and up as far as Heron island in the county of Restigouche, the whole shore is exposed to all kinds of storms and it becomes impossible for the fishermen to observe these regulations.
I hold in my hand the last memorial sent to the minister, or at least, I think he has received it. It comes from Mr. George Chalmers of Gharlo station, New Brunswick, and here is what they say:
Whereas the present salmon net fishing regulations are in some ways either impractical or absolutely impossible to perform, thus placing the fishermen in such a position that they cannot fish in a legal way without great hardship, and in some cases making it absolutely impossible to fish without infringing the regulations of the Fisheries Act, _ the Restigouche Net Salmon Fishing Association-
Which also extends to the county of Gloucester, which I have the honour to represent.
-unanimously resolve as follows:
1. Section 17, subsection 8(a) of the Fisheries Act at present provides for a tie-up from 8 a.m. Saturday to 8 a.m. Monday. We would like to respectfully point out that it is impractical to set a definite time for a tie-up, as it is difficult and in many cases impossible for anchored nets to be tied up at high water or when there is a strong tide running, or for the

stake nets to be tied up at low water. We suggest that to enable the fishermen to comply with the law, this section should provide for a tie-up at nearest low water following 8 a.m. Saturday in the case of anchored nets and the nearest high water following 8 a.m. Saturday in the case of stake nets.
2.	Section 17, subsection 8(d) providing for the method in which anchored nets shall be tied up, is impractical to follow out exactly in many cases, as for instance the case where the net is particularly deep, or when there is a strong tide running. As to having a ten-foot section removable, this is absolutely impractical, due to the amount of labour involved as this removable section would have to be laced to the rest of the net each time, otherwise the nets would not fish. We suggest that this section should read that the fishermen are to tie up as near as is possible in this manner and not that they are to tie up strictly in this manner as the act reads at present.
3.	Section 17, subsection 8 (e) provides for a two day close period during the week if it is impractical to tie up on Saturday on account of weather conditions. We do not feel that this is just. Weather conditions will prevent lowering nets on Monday morning just as many times as it will prevent tie-ups on Saturday. In this 'way when it is impossible to lower the nets on Monday morning the tie-up will extend to three or four days and in the end these longer tie-up periods will make up for those times when it is impossible to tie-up on Saturday, thus making the average tie-up two days anyway besides, if the weather is rough enough so as to make it impossible to tie-up on Saturday, the nets are not in fishing condition. The average tie-up is going to be two days anyway, as pointed out above, without forcing the fishermen to tie-up in the middle of the week. These suggested mid-week tie-ups would work a further hardship on the fishermen in that a great many of them hire labour which would have to be paid anyway during this two day mid-week tie-up.
Section 17 subsection 8 (f) provides that all fishermen who do not adhere to the present tie-up regulations shall not be eligible for renewal of licence.
Let us take a supposititious case. I do not know of anything of the kind having happened, but an officious ftshwarden might have something against a fisherman and all he would have to do would be to report a violation of a law which it was impossible to observe, with the result that the following year that fisherman would lose his licence.
As for the reasons pointed out above it is impractical and in many cases absolutely impossible to carry out certain present regulations of the Fisheries Act according to the letter of the law, it is felt that the fishermen's licence should not be placed in jeopardy due to circumstances over which they have no control, and that it would be very unjust, and we would firmly oppose retaining this section in the Fisheries Act, unless the act is modified as suggested above to enable the fishermen to comply strictly with the law.
I do not intend to trespass further on the time of the committee. I will leave the matter

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in the hands of the minister and his officers, and I am sure that when they have had an opportunity (to look carefully into it they will realize that there are hardships which should be met in some way. I have not seen the report submitted by Mr. Found on his return from New Brunswick, but it may be said that the fishermen were met, that matters were discussed, and that they were agreeable to certain regulations. I am sure, however, that if the effect of these regulations had been pointed out to them they would there and then have raised the objections they are now bringing forward in this memorial to which I have referred. As I say, I leave the matter in the hands of the minister, but before sitting down I wish to thank him for the attention he has already given it. I am thankful on behalf of the fishermen of my county at least for the changes that have been made in the regulations which were inaugurated last January, I believe, and I trust that now the case has been laid before him the minister will go more fully into the matter with a view to removing these hardships.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: I am grateful to the hon. member for the very fair manner in which he has .presented his case. I would not for a moment attempt to pit my knowledge of fishing conditions in Gloucester against his, although I have had considerable experience in contact with the fisheries regulations. I think we start from common ground when I say to the hon. member that there never was and never will be a set of satisfactory fisheries regulations. I think we had better begin on that assumption. Our objective ought to be to secure a set of fisheries regulations designed reasonably to serve the fisheries so as to make them perpetual in character, and regulations which will impose the least hardship on those engaged in the fishing industry.
I knew full well, when it was reported to me that there should be changes in the regulations in New Brunswick, what a difficult task I was approaching, and as evidence of that I would point out that we called, after due notice, a conference in Ottawa two months ago, at which there were present the Deputy Minister of Fisheries of New Brunswick; Mr. Gibault, representing the Department of Fisheries of Quebec; our chief fisheries supervisors, and representatives of riparian associations in both Quebec and New Brunswick; and in addition we paid the expenses of nine representative fishermen who were in a position to speak for the fishermen themselves. We sat in conference all day long and the matter was threshed out with the officers of the department. While I will not say that there was cordial unanimity, there was at the conclusion of the conference an actual unanimity with respect to the regulations then proposed. And to test public opinion they were promulgated. It was then that we found where the main sources of objection lay. It was following that conference, as my hon. friend will recall, that the deputy minister made the trip to New Brunswick which resulted in these revised regulations. I think my hon. friend will grant that I was keenly interested personally, apart altogether from the interest I took in the matter as Minister of Fisheries, in the conservation of this wonderful fishery. I think he will agree that I am just as interested as he is. Now, our objective is to conserve the fisheries.


Mr. YENIOT:: We agree on that.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: Yes, I think we are agreed on that. And we shall have gone a long way when we have reached the point where the fishermen themselves realize that there should be no conflict between net fishing on the one hand and the angler on the other.


Clarence Joseph Veniot: You will have to keep the angler out of the picture.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: I think it will one day be realized that the interests of the angler and of the commercial fishermen are identical.


Peter John Veniot: They are getting nearer
that point.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: One cannot exist without
the other, for each has a contribution to make to the welfare of the fisheries. It was from the point of view of the welfare of the fisheries themselves that these regulations were attempted. In the first part of his remarks my hon. friend raised a very serious objection to the method of tying up nets for a space of ten feet. I may observe that this point was threshed out carefully at the conference of which I have spoken. I was an attentive listener, and the officials of the department were able to convince beyond peradventure any of those who made objection that this was a perfectly feasible method. Moreover, I was at pains to find out that in Scotland, under exactly similar conditions, for a period of over half a century they have done not only this but very much more. There they make them take up the whole leader and Carry it ashore on Saturdays, bringing it back on Monday mornings, a much more onerous task.


Mr. NEILL:: That is due to religious
scruples.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: Whatever may be the
motive behind the method, the fact remains
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that physically it can. be done and is there done without objection. It is the accepted method of performing this work in Scotland. My fishery advisers tell me it is a perfectly feasible method and will not work a hardship on the fishermen, and I may say to my hon. friend that, with the exception of the district which he represents, there has been very little complaint. I am just as anxious as my hon. friend is to see that no injustice shall be done to the actual commercial fisherman. Not only do I propose to inquire carefully into this matter in conjunction with the officials of my department, but it is my intention to investigate on the ground this summer if I am spared. It is my purpose to visit every one of these districts and make myself acquainted with the exact Situation and the difficulties existing. When that is done I can assure my hon. friend that if I am of the opinion that these regulations are working a hardship, I will not hesitate to revise them. We must keep in mind, however, the welfare of the fisheries, and we must have regulations designed to conserve them in perpetuity.
My hon. friend spoke of the reports of Messrs. Caldenwood, Belding and Phelps. He did not make it clear to the committee, and perhaps I should do it, that these reports were not departmental reports. Mr. Calder-wood, as perhaps most of the members of the committee know, was for many years in charge of the salmon fisheries in Scotland and is regarded as the best informed man in Scotland as to the Atlantic salmon fisheries. These men vie re engaged by the riparian association, at their own cost.


Clarence Joseph Veniot: That makes my argument all the stronger.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: My hon. friend must bear in mind the fact that they did not come here to attempt to tell the department what ought to be done; I am happy to say they cooperated most cordially and sympathetically with the officials of the department and of the Biological Board. The result was that they were able to pool their knowledge, and while it by no means follows that as the result of one year's experience they acquired sufficient knowledge to be able to say the last word, as it were, with respect to the salmon fisheries in New Brunswick, they made a very good start and they propose to carry on their work during the coming year in conjunction with the officials of the Fisheries department and of the Biological Board. My hon. friend referred to the fact that they conducted their investigation only in the Restigouche river and on the Miramichi.


Clarence Joseph Veniot: And out in the bay.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: One must walk, however, before he runs, and it does not follow that because the work was started that is going to be the end of it. It is the purpose of the department to carry on this work in all the rivers of New Brunswick, and what was done was only a start. It is with some diffidence that I point out to my hon. friend, who is on the ground and has been in contact with this industry for many years, that the regulations which prevailed for a number of years with respect to the tying up of nets-they will be found on page 8 of the fishing regulations of the province of New Brunswick-are pretty stringent, and if carried out would have been far more onerous than the regulations as laid down for this year.


Peter John Veniot: Oh, no.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: We must hope to agree to disagree in that respect.


Peter John Veniot: I have had personal experience.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: In the report of Mr. Calder-wood there are photographs showing the difference in the lifting of nets in one area as compared with another. I will not name these different areas, for reasons which will be obvious; but the fact is that the regulations have not been respected in certain places and it was our desire to get a form of regulation which would be general in application and respected all around.


Peter John Veniot: I admitted that in my remarks.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: I do not propose to enter into a discussion with my hon. friend as to whether or not certain fisheries are being depleted, but as a matter of fact the records show that the catch in that very area has been diminishing very materially. If my hon. friend will look at the fishing statistics for 1929 he will find the following figures showing the catches made in New Brunswick:
Hundredweight
1925		 30,073
1926		 25,131
1927		 22,464
1928		 12,557
1929		 18,308
There was a slight jump upwards for the last year.


Peter John Veniot: That is the number of
fish?


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: I am speaking of hundredweights of salmon caught in the province of New Brunswick.

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Peter John Veniot: That does not agree with
the information upon which these scientific men have based their report.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: I will come back to that
scientific report in a moment. I have quoted the figures for 1925 to 1929 inclusive, but the report which my hon. friend has before him is for the year 1930.


Peter John Veniot: The other years are shown as well.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: My hon. friend mentioned
the diminution in the fisheries. The records show that there has been a very marked diminution in the Restigouche area. I was amazed to find that the fisheries in the Restigouche area had diminished by almost 70 per cent up to the year 1925, and I felt that this called for very careful investigation. I have fished this river myself on different occasions, and I hope to be spared to fish it again in the future.


Mr. HANSON (Skeena):: What part of
this item is to be spent in British Columbia?


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: Does the hon. member
mean the item in question?


Olof Hanson: Yes.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: Part of the item would
apply to British Columbia, but not the regulation under discussion.


Olof Hanson: What portion
of the item is to be expended in British Columbia?


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: Would my hon. friend
defer his question until I have concluded my reply to the hon. member for Gloucester?


Peter John Veniot: Will the hon. minister
please give me those figures again?


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: They will be found on
page 31 of the fisheries statistics. My hon. friend can obtain that publication from the distribution office.


Peter John Veniot: Was it the number of
salmon caught each year?


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: No, the figures are given
in hundredweights; they have no reference to the number of fish.
With regard to the regulations regarding drifters, these were not imposed as a result of the Calderwood or the Belding and Phelps investigation; they were designed solely with a view to providing proper methods of conservation. Anyone who has the welfare of the salmon industry at heart must pause and think when he considers the rapid increase in the number of drifters in that area during the
last few years. In 1925 we had only 52 drifters in that area, but the number increased year by year until 1930, when it reached 170, an increase of over 200 per cent. I have not questioned the estimate contained in the report of Messrs. Belding and Phelps that 142,000 salmon were caught in that area last year; as a matter of fact that estimate was referred to in the conference. Among those who were present at the conference was Mr. Loggie, a son of a gentleman who for a number of years occupied a seat in this house. He is a commercial fisherman and he never questioned the figures. The total may not mean much to our hon. friends from British Columbia who are accustomed to number salmon in the millions, but when one realizes that 142,000 sport fish were caught it causes one to ponder, having regard to the fact that the total catch in the Restigouche river in the best year amounted to something less than
2.000,	and in some years has dropped to below
1.000.	I am speaking from memory, but I
believe I am correct when I say this:	The
scientific investigation of several hundreds of these fish showed that they were in precisely the same condition as were the fish taken in the river. They were all spawning fish and were heading far up the rivers to spawn.


Peter John Veniot: The figures that the minister has given cannot include the amount ' of salmon caught by the net fishermen and the drift net fishermen, because they certainly do not agree with the report.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: I shall be glad to examine that report afterwards in the light of these figures. I do not know that that is so material especially in view of what I am saying in respect to the alarming increase in the salmon drift netting. I say this on my own responsibility as head of the Department of Fisheries, that instructions were issued that no more drift net licences were to be granted in that area until we were able to demonstrate that the fisheries there could stand the toll that is being taken at the present time. It is true that has been varied only in one respect. It was pointed out subsequently that some seventeen men, not knowing this regulation was put into force, in good faith and anticipating that as a matter of ordinary routine they could secure drifters' licences, had proceeded in the course of the winter to build boats, to equip them, to purchase nets and to go to considerable expense. In the light of those facts, as a matter of grace, it was decided to enlarge the number of drift netters by adding 17 to the 170, but with the understanding that as and when those drift licences fell in, they
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would be reduced to the point where, after careful inquiry and scientific investigation, it was demonstrated to us that we could not safely go beyond a given point in taking toll of the fish by that method. The hon. member for Gloucester tried to view those regulations in the light of an officious fish warden. We all know there are men of that description.


Peter John Veniot: They are generally pretty
good.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: Yes; but, as my hon.
friend knows, there is the exception. You find a man who has not good judgment; his breakfast has perhaps not agreed with him; he starts the day wrong, and he gets into trouble with some of the fishermen. But I think it is not fair to view regulations in the light of their application by a man of that type. We must assume that regulations are being enforced by reasonable men animated in the main by proper motives.
I think I have covered fairly completely the several objections raised by the hon. member for Gloucester, and I shall conclude so far as he is concerned by saying this: He may rest assured I shall be at pains personally to inquire into this matter to the full, the idea in mind being solely to conserve this great industry so that it may be of enhanced benefit to the very people for whom he is speaking to-night.


Peter John Veniot: I like the kind way in
which the minister has taken the remarks I have made. They were made not by way of captious criticism but rather in order to bring to the attention of the minister a matter of great importance to the people of New [DOT] Brunswick. He has promised that he will visit these areas. I am pleased to hear that. When he comes to Gloucester county, if I am at home I shall be glad to do anything I can to bring him into touch with the fishermen, and also to provide him with a good day's salmon fishing on the Nipisguit river.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: Tf I may interrupt, the
invitiation is accepted here and now.


Peter John Veniot: But when he does come to northern New Brunswick I would suggest that he do not be convinced by the arguments of the lawyers representing the anglers of Gloucester county. In northern New Brunswick and in the province of Quebec there are certain gentlemen who receive fees for looking after the interests of the anglers, and those gentlemen, as lawyers earning their fees, have to do the best they can. There are other

lawyers who represent the shore fishermen, and from the knowledge some of them have of the hardships that the shore fishermen have to endure, they are in many cases acting for the shore fishermen without fee, while the others that I mentioned receive big fees from large organizations. The delegation that came to Ottawa in January or February .included lawyers representing fish pool holders or riparian owners who have fishing rights on some of our rivers. There were also some representatives of the net fishermen. When I went home later on at Easter.I met some of the representatives of the net fishermen. This was after the regulations bad been promulgated, and they told me that if they had had any idea thiat the interview which they had at Ottawa -would have resulted in these regulations, they would never have come to this city; that they certainly misunderstood what was going on. This is why they are now objecting so strenuously.
May I point this out in order that the minister may have the fact in mind; he has reported as to the number of hundredweight of salmon caught in New Brunswick in certain years. T think he gave the figures down to 1927 or 1928.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: 1929.


Peter John Veniot: I did not catch the quantity for 1929.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: 18,308 hundredweight.


Peter John Veniot: The salmon caught by the drifters in 1929 is given in the report as 5,790 hundredweight. The amount caught in 1930 is given as 17,012 hundredweight. I am now quoting from the report of Mr. Theeps, on which he based his recommendations, not to the department, as I now find out, but to those who had engaged him to come and look into the matter in their interests, namely, the anglers. They engaged these gentlemen and got them to visit New Brunswick, go over the Baie des Chaleurs salmon fisheries and make this report. Notwithstanding the fact that they were engaged by the anglers, there is only one paragraph in the report in which they say that salmon caught and opened were salmon in the same condition of productivity as salmon caught and opened on the rivers. They attempted tagging, but that did not succeed in convincing them. After all, this report is based on estimates so far as quantity is concerned; it is not based on facts, bearing upon the habits of the salmon. Those gentlemen cannot teach the fishermen of northern New Brunswick anything about the habits of salmon. The fishermen have

Supply-Fisheries
been brought up in that locality and they know the habits of the salmon better than those gentlemen do. When those gentlemen axe sent by an organization such as the anglers to make a report on the conditions they find; when the report is not definite and does not bear out the contention of the anglers then I say there is all the more reason for the department to hesitate to put such strict and impracticable regulations into force. I am glad the minister stated that he will personally look in'to the matter and visit the districts affected.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: In citing the figures contained in the report of Messrs. Belding and Phelps, my hon. friend unwittingly compared things which are not equal at all. For example the figures I cited were hundredweights.


Peter John Veniot: Yes, that is what I said.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: No, the figures I cited referred to hundredweights of salmon caught in the whole province of New Brunswick, whereas the figures cited by my hon. friend from the report of Messrs. Belding and Phelps referred to pounds.


Peter John Veniot: I changed the pounds into hundredweights.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: There is no comparison at all, Mr. Chairman. The figures cited by my hon. friend from the report of Messrs. Belding and Phelps concerns the salmon fisheries of the whole province of New Brunswick.


Peter John Veniot: I converted pounds into hundredweights and my argument went to show that either that report of hundredweights is not correct or the statistical report of the department is not correct. I am prepared to accept the statistical report of the department.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: This is not a statistical report of the department; it is a report as furnished to the bureau of statistics. Either I will have to have a new system of arithmetic or my hon. friend has a system I do not understand, because my statement still holds good with respect to these comparative figures.
I did not take exception to the remarks of my hon. friend regarding the lawyers who came here. While I have no great sympathy for lawyers, yet I was one once myself and perhaps I should be inclined to treat them more generously than would my hon. friend. I will say however that out of a deputation of thirty only two were lawyers, and only one of them spoke. He did not speak from the
viewpoint of clients, or any particular person. On the contrary I thought he made a very broad and conciliatory speech. I think my hon. friend will accept the statement that there is really no point of conflict between the welfare of the angler and that of the commercial fishermen.


William Duff: The commercial fishermen should come first.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: I will say to my hon. friend from Antigonish-Guysborough that the respective positions of anglers and commercial fishermen remind me of the old problem of which comes first, the hen or the egg.


William Duff: No; the commercial fishermen are earning their living by fishing, whereas the anglers are having a good time.


Edgar Nelson Rhodes: On the other hand, the
anglers are making a real contribution so far as conservation is concerned. The number of fish they take is negligible compared to the number taken by the commercial fishermen.
I do not complain, of course, because the fishermen have a right to engage in their business. I say however that the interests of anglers and fishermen are identical inasmuch as they both want to build up and conserve a permanent industry. I assure my hon. friend that there is nothing in his suspicion that the voice of the high paid lawyer was heard to the exclusion of the voices of the fishermen themselves. By no means do I wish to contend that the regulations are ideal or thoroughly satisfactory, but I can assure my hon. friend that they were designed just as much in the interests of the commercial fishermen as any other body of men or group of individuals.


Mr. McLURE:: Under this item I wish to direct the attention of the committee and the Minister of Fisheries to an item which probably does not deal directly with salmon. The matter to which I shall refer is one which has been brought to the attention of two and probably three ministers of fisheries in the last few years. While in some cases the ministers have given their decided opinions in the matter, yet the parties who have been injured have not had their claims satisfied. I refer to the subsidized fishing steamer, Amla. The owners of this particular fishing steamer had a contract made in the year 1929, and under their contract they interviewed the fishermen of Prince Edward Island. We find that the contract was not carried out in detail and that the people who were injured were
Supply-Fisheries

the crew of the subsidized steamer Amla. I shall read the memorandum of agreement:
Memorandum of Agreement in duplicate mad* and entered into on the fourteenth day of May in the year nineteen hundred and twenty-nine between His Majesty, King George V, represented herein by the Honourable P. J. Arthur Cardin, Minister of Marine and Fisheries, of the Dominion of Canada, hereinafter referred to as the minister or the party of the first part, and the International Fresh Fish Corporation Limited, Georgetown, Prince Edward Island, owner of the boat "Amla", hereinafter referred to as the party of the second part;
Witnesseth that for and in consideration of the covenants, agreements and stipulations herein contained on the part of His Majesty, the party of the second part, themselves, their successors and assigns do hereby covenant and agree to and with His Majesty, his heirs and successors in the manner and to the effect following, viz:
To provide and operate at their own cost the steamer "Amla" for collecting and transporting fish.
The "Amla" shall operate as above indicated along that portion of the north coast of Prince Edward Island from Alberton to Souris or Georgetown, making at least three trips per week, and calling at the different fishing points in order to collect and purchase the catch from the fishermen and bring the same to Souris or Georgetown, where the fish can be shipped by rail in special refrigeration cars.
The "Amla" shall be equipped with refrigerating compartments and have on board a special fish instructor and inspector to instruct and guide the fishermen.
The party of the second part guarantees to the fishermen a price of at least one cent per pound for fish as it comes from the water and 2ic. per pound for lightly salted fish.
Payment for fish purchased from the fishermen shall be made by the party of the second part on a basis of at least once in every two weeks.
The party of the second part agrees to submit to the minister or the party of the first part a certified cheque on a chartered bank in the Dominion of Canada or other security satisfactory to the. minister for the amount of five thousand dollars to be held as a guarantee for the faithful performance of this contract and that the fishermen shall receive payment as indicated above for the fish purchased from them and also to protect the fishermen against loss should the party of the second part fail to fulfil its obligations, which certified cheque or other security shall be forfeited, as w'ell as any moneys due under this agreement should the party of the second part fail to carry out any of the terms of this contract.
The party of the second part agrees to transport fish and other products for other producers and to facilitate the collection and shipments of potatoes and similar farm produce during the fall to the nearest railroad station, it being distinctly understood that the transportation and collection of fish must at all times be given preference.
The party of the second part shall maintain a sufficient crew on the "Amla" to properly operate the boat and handle the fish with proper expedition.
[Mr. McLure.l
The "Amla" is to be properly insured against loss, and it is a condition of this agreement that the party of the first part assumes no liability for damage to the "Amla" by act of God, fire, reasonable wear and tear and all and every other dangers and accidents of the seas, rivers and navigation of whatever nature and kind soever, provided that if the said boat be totally lost or damaged to such an extent as to justify abandonment thereof as for a constructive loss, this agreement shall thereupon be deemed to have expired and the party of the first part shall be subject to no further liability thereunder.
This agreement shall be effective from the first day of June, nineteen hundred and twenty-nine, to the thirty-first day of December, nineteen hundred and twenty-nine, or for such length of time as may be determined by the minister or the Party of the first part, in consideration whereof His Majesty represented herein by the minister as aforesaid agrees to pay to the party of the second part a subsidy at the rate of one thousand eight hundred dollars per month of lawful money of the Dominion of Canada, it being understood and agreed that, in the event of any trip or trips, or a portion of any trip or trips being missed owing to it being impossible to perform the same on account of weather or ice conditions, upon satisfactory evidence to that effect being furnished to the minister, he may direct that no deduction shall be made from the subsidy otherwise payable for the trip or trips so missed. But in the event of a trip or trips being missed through accident to machinery or the vessel, a deduction shall then be made from the subsidy provided in this agreement, said deduction to be made on a pro rata basis, the number of days so missed to be taken as fractions of the month.
Where the context allows, the expression "minister" shall include the Deputy Minister of Fisheries and the successors in office for the time being of the minister or such deputy.
In witness whereof the party of the first part, the minister as representing His Majesty as aforesaid, and the party of the second part have hereunto signed their names and set their seals.
Done this fourteenth day of May in the year of Our Lord, nineteen hundred and twenty-nine.
Signed and sealed by the minister in the presence of:
F. J. Petry.
Wm. A. Found, Deputy Minister of Fisheries.
Signed and sealed by the said party of the second part in the presence of
I. A. Ryan.
O. W. Nordin,
President.
International Fresh Fish Corporation Ltd.,
Owner.
I read this memorandum of agreement to show that the boat Amla was subsidized to dievelop the fishing on Prince Edward Island, to take care of the catch and to help in the marketing of it.
Afterwards O. W. Nordin came to Prince Edward Island and interviewed several fishermen, farmers and others, told them of the

Supply-Fisheries
agreement and then produced it. On the strength of the agreement he succeeded in shipping his crew, and it is on behalf of those men that I am placing this matter before the hon. Minister of Fisheries. Nordin hired the crew on the 23rd of April. The following are particulars of the crew, their length of service, and the wages owing to them:
W. P. Burke, captain Charlottetown-
5 months wages at $150	$750
4 months board at $25	100
(April 23rd to Sept. 23rd)	


L. Winchester, engineer Charlottetown-
5	months wages	at	$150	$7504	months board	at	$25	100(April 23rd to Sept. 23rd)	
$850
John Skerry, cook Alberton-
5	months wages	at	$80	$4004 months board	at	$25	100
Peter Parrington, mate Lower Montague-
4 months wages	at	$65	$2603	months board	at	$25	75
-$335
Daniel Jarvis, seaman North Rustico-
4	months wages	at	$60	'.$2403 months board	at	$25	75
Lome Flood, seaman Southport-
2 months wages at $60	$120
1	month board at $25	25



James McCabe, fireman Charlottetown-
2	months wages at $80	$1601	month board at $25	25
Edward Smith, fireman Charlottetown-
2	months wages at $80	$160
1 month board at $25	25



These are the claims totalling $3,365, by the men against the ship and against the owner personally or under his firm name of the International Fresh Fish Corporation, Limited. After the crew had worked for a month naturally they asked for their wages. Mr. Nordin told them that the government had not yet sent his subsidy, but in a few days he would receive it and they would be paid their wages. Time went on without the men receiving anything and they became anxious, and finally, through their solicitor, they appealed to the courts and had the ship seized. She was sold in September, but the price realized was only sufficient to pay the legal expenses and some minor repairs. Thus after five months' service the crew were left without any recompense. As soon as this was known several people became interested in their plight. Delegations were sent to different quarters, and I am advised that a
delegation interviewed the government here. However, there was a letter sent by the members of the crew to the Minister of Fisheries, stating what they were up against and the loss they had sustained. I want to read this memorandum to the minister, which is dated Charlottetown, December 6, 1929, and addressed to Hon. P. J. Cardin, Minister of Marine and Fisheries, and also to members representing Prince Edward Island. It reads: Honourable and dear sirs:
Mr. O. W. Nordin, president of the International Fish Corporation, came here and stated that he had a contract with the Department of Fisheries and was being allowed $1,800 a month as a subsidy. On the 23rd of April we went to work on the steamer Amla (Ex. C. G. S. Brant) to get her ready to fulfil the contract. On the latter part of May we tried to get some wages, but although Mr. Nordin promised several times to pay us, we got nothing.
We are informed by several persons, and on good authority, that the company was not solvent and that we had better look out for our wages. On June 8th we applied to the admiralty court for a settlement, and after waiting until September 10th, the steamer was offered by sheriff's sale but did not sell. On or about the 23rd of September she was sold by private sale, but up to the present time we have not received our wages.
It is now nearly eight months since we started work and we have practically lost a season's employment through the International Fresh Fish Corporation's failure to carry out their contract.
We are enclosing a statement of wages-*
That is the statement I have already read. 

which will show that some of the crew were compelled to leave without any remuneration whatever before the steamer was sold.
As the International Fresh Fish Corporation had submitted bonds for the faithful performance of the contract, which they failed to fulfil, we respectfully request that these bonds be estreated to such an amount as will satisfy our claim for wages.
Trusting to have your favourable consideration as soon as possible, we remain your most humble and obedient servants,
(Signed) W. P. Burke, master
Lemuel Winchester, engineer John Skerry, cook Peter Parrington, mate Daniel Jarvis, seaman Lome Flood, seaman James McCabe, fireman Edward Smith, fireman.
To supplement this letter a large petition was circulated throughout Prince Edward Island, and I should like to read part of it to show how it supports the letter written by the crew. It is addressed to Hon. P. J. Cardin, Minister of Marine and Fisheries, at Ottawa, and also to members representing Prince Edward Island, and reads as follows:
We, the public and supporters of the Liberal party in the province of Prince Edward Island,

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are conversant with the facts as contained in the enclosed letter from the crew of the S. S. Amla, ex C. G. S. Brant, and we consider their request only fair and just before our members, to be paid their wages from these bonds.
We understand that Mr. Nordin was president of the International Fresh Fish Corporation, and further that this company had a contract with the Department of Fisheries and was granted a subsidy of $1,800 (eighteen hundred dollars) per month, which induced the crew to hire with the above company, and also induced the merchants of Charlottetown, to supply her with fittings, to prepare the ship for her work. We are also informed that the company gave bonds, for the faithful performance of the contract, which among other things were to protect the fishermen.
The company never functioned, and we ask you in the name of our king and country, that these bonds should be used, or as much of them as possible, toward paying those poor men.
We would respectfully request you to give this petition your most favourable consideration, so that the crew, who have completely lost their summer, through the failure of 0. W. Nordin. Some of these men have served their King and country for over three years.
A labourer is worthy of his hire and their wages should be paid.
I have a copy of this petition but I will not read the signatures, since it is signed by over three hundred people throughout Prince Edward Island. In addition, there were numerous other letters and telegrams sent to members of parliament; the crew of the . Amla were led to believe that they would be paid, but so far that has not been done. An election was approaching; the letters became very numerous and very promising, and I want to read some of the letters received by members of the crew. By doing so I will show that some assurance must have been given by the Minister of Fisheries that the crew would be paid. A short time ago I noticed that the hon. member for Prince was very anxious that agreements with the government should be lived up to. Here we have an agreement with the members of the crew of the Amla, but as yet they have not been paid. On May 9, 1930, the hon. member for Prince wrote Captain Burke as follows:
Dear Captain Burke:
I received the information to-day from the Minister of Marine and Fisheries that he will endeavour to arrange to have your claims adjusted, and I suppose he will have to put this in the supplementary estimates, and until those are through it would not be safe to give out any information.
However, I thought it well to let you know that the minister's intentions are good and that he will do his best on your behalf.
Yours truly,
A. E. MacLean.
You will note that according to this letter no information was to be divulged at that time.


Mr. AHEARN:: Pardon me, but was the
letter marked personal?


Winfield Chester Scott McLure: No, it was not. As election day drew near, another letter was written, under the date of May 12, 1930, this time to the engineer of the boat. This letter reads:
Ottawa, May 12th, 1930. Mr. Lemuel Winchester,
Charlottetown, P.E.I.
Dear Mr. Winchester:
I received your letter and may say in reply, that the minister has given me the assurance that it will be attended to and that provision will be made for same in the estimates.
I trust that things will work out satisfactorily and that all the men employed on the boat will be paid.
Yours truly,
A. E. MacLean.
I wish to place on record another letter to show that these men on the Amla were being assured from time to time by the members from Prince Edward Island that they were going to be . paid the wages due them. Here is a letter of July 5, 1930.
Summerside, P.E.I., July 5th, 1930. Mr. F. Skerry,
c/o Howard Clark,
Alberton, P.E.I.
Dear Mr. Skerry:
Regarding pay for the work Amla, may say that I have received a letter stating the minister had issued instructions to have cheques issued.
If you do not receive yours in the course of a day or so, kindly let me know, and I will again take the matter up.
Yours truly,
A. E. MacLean.
That was just prior to the election and would therefore be a nice letter for the crew to receive.


Alfred Edgar MacLean: Why pick out A. E. MacLean's? Read the others.


Winfield Chester Scott McLure: If the hon. member will
wait I will read some more of his.


An hon. MEMBER:: Read them all.


Winfield Chester Scott McLure: It would take a couple
of days to read them all.


Alfred Edgar MacLean: We support every one of
them.


Winfield Chester Scott McLure: If the hon. member for
Prince does not wish to take credit for all the letters, I will give him a rest and read others which may back up his own statement that the crew should be paid, that they were promised to be paid, and that, as the writer says, he had the assurance of the minister that the cheques were issued and was told that if the men did not get their cheques

Biological Board Act
the crew should notify the hon. member and he would see the matter was attended to.


Alfred Edgar MacLean: I did not say they were
issued.


Winfield Chester Scott McLure: Here is another letter of
May 24, 1930:
Ottawa, May 24th, 1930. Mr. Lemuel Winchester,
Charlottetown,
Prince Edward Island.
Dear Mr. Winchester:
I acknowledge your letter of May 22nd and can only repeat what I said before, that this claim would be paid.
The Justice department has now given a decision that the bond which Nordin furnished can be collected on and they are now going after the guarantee company, but apart from all that, even if it is not collectible, the amount will be paid. Our friends must understand, however, that a vote must he put through the house, otherwise the Auditor General will not certify it with the accounts.
Yours sincerely,
R. H. Jenkins.
That letter was from another member of parliament at that time. Here is another letter dhted May 30, 1930:
Ottawa, May 30, 1930.
Captain W. P. Burke,
148 Elm Avenue,
Charlottetown,
Prince Edward Island.
Dear Captain Burke:
I beg to acknowledge your letter of May 27th and there is no doubt whatever your claim will be paid. It is fully expected that the government will be able to collect on the bond, but whether they do or not it will be treated in a compassionate way and the minister informed me that it will be paid.
Yours sincerely,
R. H. Jenkins.
Progress reported.


[Stage Direction]
At eleven o'clock the house adjourned without question put, pursuant to standing order.
Tuesday, June 2, 1931