1926-12-15

ATHABASKA ELECTION

[Stage Direction]
On the Orders of the Day:
Hon. ERNEST LAPOINTE (Minister of Justice):: In compliance with the request
made yesterday by the hon. member for Peace River (Mr. Kennedy) I lay on the table of the House the interim and final report of Mr. Justice Clarke, commissioner appointed to inquire into the alleged existence of corrupt or illegal practices in the electoral district of Athabaska, and also the certificates of the Acting Attorney General of Canada, respectively.



CHRISTMAS ADJOURNMENT

Right Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING (Prime Minister):: I move that when this
House adjourns on the eve of the Christmas holidays it stand adjourned until the 8th February, 1927.


Hon. HUGH GUTHRIE (Leader of the Opposition):: I am sure the House will not
object to granting a reasonable adjournment.

Athabnska Election
There are special reasons at the present time why a comparatively long adjournment should be granted. We are all aware that the Prime Minister has been out of the country practically from election day to the present time, and the government have not had the necessary time for preparation. The date suggested would suit me very well, but a great many hon. members on this side of the House consider that an earlier date would suit their convenience and the convenience of the House better than the date now suggested. May I ask my right hon. friend to consider whether he could not make the date a week earlier, say February 1, or better still the last week in January. I think either of those two days would probably suit the convenience of most members of the House better than the date he has now suggested.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: The government considered very carefully the point my hon. friend has just mentioned of endeavouring to suit the convenience of the members of the House by fixing as early a date as possible. We did think of asking the House to permit the adjournment until the 15th of February, but, on ascertaining the views of different members and conferring between the tw'o sides of the House, we concluded that a week earlier than that would be preferable, and for that reason we have fixed the 8th of February. I ought to remind the House perhaps that there are a number of matters requiring the consideration of the government to which the government has had so far no opportunity to give consideration. All of this year has been taken up pretty much with matters of political discussion either in the House or outside of it. Many departmental matters which should receive the attention of the ministers have necessarily had to be left over until an opportune moment came for their consideration. The estimates for the coming year have to be prepared with care. It will take some little time for the ministers to determine finally the amounts to be placed in the estimates. We would like to have the estimates in readiness to be brought down as soon as parliament reassembles. It is not an easy matter, as hon. members opposite who have had experience will know, to decide on such matters as the estimates while parliament is actually in session. I would ask the House to show to the ministry that degree of consideration to which I think it is entitled at this time in allowing the extra week, which will mean a great deal to many of us in getting the sessional business in shape for the reopening of parliament. I can assure the House that it will be the effort of the government just as soon as parliament reassembles to have all its business in readiness to go on with immediately.


Hugh Guthrie: Hear, hear.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: May I remind the House that we are through with the formalities attendant on the opening of the session, we are through with the debate on the address, and we will be at the point on February 8 that in previous years has not been reached until well on in February or March. So by reopening the session on February 8 we will really be very much in advance of what we have been for many years past at that period of the year. I would not ask the House to support the motion as introduced if I could not say honestly that we have given the matter very, very careful consideration and feel that in the public interest we should ask for an adjournment until that date.


[Stage Direction]
Motion agreed to.

Hon. J. A. ROBB (Minister of Finance):: Mr. Speaker, may I at this time ask unanimous consent of the House to proceed with the bill for supply so that once it is disposed of it may be sent over to the Senate?


Mr. SPEAKER:: By unanimous consent.
Motion agreed to and the House went into committee of supply on Bill No. 3 for granting to His Majesty a certain sum of money for the public service for the financial year ending March 31, 1927, Mr. Johnston in the chair.
Section 1 agreed to.
On section 2, $64,590,350.74 granted for 1926-27.


Mr. GARLAND (Bow River):: Mr. Chairman, I understand that last night the Minister of Finance (Mr. Robb) agreed that any item upon which an explanation might be desired by members would be open for discussion so that the explanation might be given. I am sorry, however, to notice that the Minister of the Interior (Mr. Stewart) is not present, as I should like to ask him why $18,000 is provided for in the estimates for the movement of coal when only a shipment of 2,000 tons was moved. The share the federal government was to bear was one dollar per ton, or $2,000 in all. Why the $18,000 in the estimates, and what is going to happen to the balance?

Supply Bill


Mr. KING (Kootenay):: Mr. Chairman, I wish to inform the hon. member and the committee that the Minister of the Interior has been ill during the past week and is not able to attend to-day. I regret that I have not the explanation referred to by my hon. friend.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: May I say to my hon. friend that the fiscal year is not yet at an end, and some of that money may still be required between now and the end of March.


Edward Joseph Garland: In this case, Mr. Chairman, I should like to remind the government of the order in council which was passed, I think, on February 13 of this year, p.c. No. 225, which specifically instructed the railway board to immediately inquire and report to the government upon the question of the cost of transporting coal from both the maritimes and the west to the central provinces. Some delay ensued, a natural delay, for the preparation of counsels' briefs, but I understand that at this moment counsel on all sides are prepared to go on. The case could be disposed of for action at this session of parliament. If the Board of Railway Commissioners do not consider this matter of sufficient importance, even in view of the declaration on the part of the Privy Council of its immediate necessity, then no action can be taken until after the general rates inquiry is disposed of, which will delay any action on the transportation of coal for at least a year, thus losing two seasons' movement. I think, Mr. Chairman, it is of the utmost importance that the Prime Minister should assure the committee that he will use every effort to see that the instructions of the order in council of last year are carried out by the Board of Railway Commissioners at the earliest possible moment.


William Lyon Mackenzie King: Mr. Chairman, my colleague, the Minister of Railways and Canals (Mir. Dunning), may be able on behalf of the government to give an answer to my hon. friend on that point.


Mr. DUNNING:: There are, Mr. Chairman, a number of rate cases now before the Board of Railway Commissioners. The one to which my hon. friend refers I believe, if I heard him correctly, has to do with coal rates.


Edward Joseph Garland: The order
in council.


Charles Avery Dunning: Exactly. My information is that at the present time the board is considering an application that that particular case be taken up forthwith. But there are 
a number of orders in council referring various matters to the railway board, orders dated approximately the same date, and in some cases the decisions of the board with regard thereto have been appealed to the Privy Council, that is, to the government. I expect before the House meets again following the adjournment that the government will have to arrange to hear counsel representing the provinces of Alberta and British Columbia on one appeal and on another appeal the provinces of Alberta and Saskatchewan in connection with this matter. The government is becoming a sort of court of appeal from the Board of Railway Commissioners-not a very happy position to be placed in. The briefs are very voluminous, and apparently the government must under the law constitute itself a court of appeal. I will be glad to look into the question raised by my hon. friend, but I doubt very much if the government is justified in interfering and saying to the Board of Railway Commissioners, " You shall hear this case or that case first," except on a proper appeal being taken from the decision of the board as to the date of hearing that particular case.


Mr. EDWARDS (Frontenac):: Mr. Chairman, I have no desire to take up more than a few minutes of the time of the committee, for I realize the general desire to close business this afternoon; but in regard to putting through these estimates, while I appreciate the fact that since the war there have been very many calls on the national finances which have prevented the government from giving consideration to very just claims for the spending of money in various parts of the country, yet I do want to say this, that these places which should receive consideration cannot be put to one side if money is to be spent in other places where it is needed less. Twelve years ago a lot was bought in the village of Sydenham in Frontenac for a post office. Nothing has been done since. Again, I say that I do not find any fault because of that delay, having regard to all the circumstances.
I wish to impress upon the government this fact, that there are many places throughout Canada where small sums of money should be spent for the proper accommodation of the public, and these conveniences cannot be indefinitely postponed. I shall register my very strong protest against, for example, any disposition to spend any sum of money, large or small, in making changes in the city of Ottawa, such as have been suggested in the way of tearing down one or two blocks and putting up new buildings. I should not feel that I was doing my duty if I allowed works of that kind to go on and money to be spent

Supply Bill
in that direction without offering any protest, after I have waited twelve years for an expenditure of five or six thousand dollars for a post office in my county, which expenditure is not forthcoming. There are many places that have had to wait, and with good reason. I do not want to offer any captious criticism of the estimates; on the contrary, the government will find me disposed to expedite their business along that line. But I expect from them a square deal and fair play, notwithstanding the fact that I am sitting temporarily on this side of the House. The county I have the honour to represent has never received one single dollar of public money from Confederation down to the present time, and in view of the fact that $1,000 was voted and paid out for a site for this post office I submit that my proposal for the expenditure of five or six thousand dollars as a very modest one, I want to impress upon the Minister of Finance (Mr. Robb), as I have already impressed on the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Elliott) and members of the government generally, the necessity for fair consideration of this matter when they come to prepare their estimates for the coming year.


Mr. LANCTOT:: May I tell my hon. friend from Frontenac (Mr. Edwards) that I represent a constituency whose case is somewhat similar to his, the only difference being that mine is older by a few years. The site in my constituency was purchased in 1912 by the Hon. Mr. Monk, then Minister of Public Works, and we have waited ever since for some expenditure, just as my hon. friend has done. But as he points out, money has been scarce.. Now I submit that if money is spent on a public building in the hon. gentleman's constituency I have a right to ask that the same thing be done for the people I represent. I shall have to ask my party to go ahead with the work in my constituency if similar works are proceeded with elsewhere.


Mr. COOTE:: There has been a growing
demand among the people of southern Alberta that the power of Spray lakes 'be developed. As the ownership of this power is in this government, I would like to ask if it is the policy of the government to allow development of power at Spray lakes.


John Warwick King: This matter is
one that comes very largely under the Department of the Interior, and as the minister has been ill for the past week I would suggest that the question be brought to his attention so that he may advise the House and the hon. member at the earliest possible date.
32649-7i


Mr. GARDINER:: Has the Minister of
Agriculture any knowledge as to 'how much has been spent in connection with the destruction of animals under the tuberculosis test? If he has not that information will he briefly outline the policy of the department in this matter? Is it the same as it has been in the past or does the department intend making any changes?


Mr. MOTHERWELL:: Under the Health
of Animals Act the amount usually paid out for the destruction of animals is between $600,000 and $700,000 annually.


Robert Gardiner: Is it intended to
continue that policy or does the department purpose looking into new developments in that direction?


William Richard Motherwell: We have a number of policies, one with respect to cities, one with respect to accredited herds, and one with respect to restricted areas. The latter policy we are extending very considerably, our hope being to have it apply in time to the nine provinces. The restricted area was introduced three years ago in Manitoba, under the provisions of which regulations all cattle are tested. Every animal that reacts is killed and compensation paid therefor. The area includes four municipalities of that province. This policy was extended to three counties in Quebec, and the whole of Prince Edward Island has been similarly dealt with. Later on the Fraser river valley district in British Columbia was made a restricted area, and six months ago another area was established east of Long lake in Saskatchewan. As I say, we hope to be able to apply it to every province in the Dominion. We plan then to take up the matter with the provinces with a view to dealing with the Dominion generally.


Robert Gardiner: Is there any policy in
the department looking towards further research, more particularly in connection with preventive work?


William Richard Motherwell: Yes. Doctor Watson is conducting a very important research in Hull, Quebec. We are constructing a laboratory there to extend activities, and I understand from Dr. Watson that he is on the verge of very important discoveries in connection with immunizing vaccines to prevent the spread of tuberculosis among cattle. We believe that immunization and prevention will be far better than any policy of paying compensations after the animals are diseased. However, this is a matter of investigation at the present time. As my hon. friend (Mr. Tolmie) knows, research is going on in this
Supply Bill

direction throughout the civilized world, and as Doctor Watson has made a record for himself in discoveries of a similar character, we are anticipating a good deal from his present investigations.


George Gibson Coote: With further reference to
the power at Spray lakes, I would urge upon the government the desirability of reaching a decision as soon as possible. There has been a great deal of agitation in Alberta for the development of that power. I would ask the Minister of Labour (Mr. Heenan) another question, which is of very considerable importance. I refer to a serious explosion which took place in one of our coal mines in Coleman, Alberta, a few weeks ago in which ten men lost their lives. The mine had to be flooded to put out the fire that resulted from the explosion and considerable damage occurred. I know the Minister of Labour has received a request from the relief committee in the town asking the Dominion government to make a small grant to meet the distress. Has this request received the minister's favourable consideration, and will a small grant be made to assist the people of Coleman to relieve the distress caused by this disaster.


Mr. HEENAN:: Mr. Speaker, as the hon.
member has stated, we have received such a request and we are waiting for further details. The matter is under consideration.


George Gibson Coote: I would like to ask the Minister to give it his very best consideration. I would like to emphasize the fact that this is a very grave disaster. The miners in this town were working only three days a week for about two months prior to the accident, and the closing down of the mine has thrown them all out of work. Most of the men left families dependent upon them, in some cases aged parents, with very little means of support. The town is absolutely dependent upon the mining industry; I know that in the rush of departmental business sometimes these things are not given the consideration to which they are entitled. The government of the province of Alberta, after careful consideration has seen fit to make a grant to this relief committee. I might also remind the government that in 1924, at the time of the serious disaster at Hillcrest, a disaster much worse than this, when sixty men lost their lives, the government of the day made a grant of $50,000 to the sufferers. We are not asking the government to make any such grant, but we trust that they will be as generous as was the provincial government.


Mr. WOODSWORTH:: May I call the attention of the new Minister of National Defence (Mr. Ralston) to item number 89, "Cadet Services." In the main estimates $400,000 is provided, of which $100,000 was supplied through interim supply, and $252,587 under governor general's warrants. It would take a considerable stretch of the imagination to understand that this was a very necessary service in Canada. Notwithstanding the reiterated protests in this House with regard to the policy of cadet training, that amount has been expended. It is not my desire at present to delay the House with regard to this policy-


John Wesley Edwards: May I ask
the hon. member a question? When did this House enter a protest against that service?


James Shaver Woodsworth: I stand corrected;
members of this House protested. I would like to say that the organized bodies of labour and farmers in Canada have again and again protested against this policy.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: No, no.


James Shaver Woodsworth: Yes, yes.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: No, no.


James Shaver Woodsworth: If necessary, I can read the resolutions in that connection, and I will do so when I am speaking again on this matter. What I should like to reiterate is that these large representative bodies, as well as other bodies of citizens, have taken a strong stand on this matter and have laid their protests before the government. Therefore I would suggest to the new Minister of National Defence that in the preparation of next year's estimates he give due consideration to those protests.
Sections 2, 3 and 4 agreed to.
Bill reported, read the third time and passed.



ROYAL ASSENT

[Stage Direction]
SUSPENSION OF SITTING
Hewitt Bostock: I have the honour to
inform the House that I have received the following letter:
Sir,-I have the honour to inform you that the Right Honourable F. A. Anglin, acting as deputy of His Excellency the Governor General, will proceed to the Senate chamber to-day at 3.15 p.m. for the purpose of giving the royal assent to certain bills.
I have the honour to be, Sir,
Your obedient servant,
James F. Crowdy,
Asst. Secretary to the Governor General.

Vacancies


William Lyon Mackenzie King: (Prime Minister):	Mr. Speaker, you have
just announced that the deputy of the Governor General will attend in the other House at 3.15. I assume that there is no other business which hon. members wish to transact in the interval and in the circumstances I would suggest that proceedings be suspended until that hour.
At 2.45 p.m. the sitting was suspended until 3.15 p.m.
The House having resumed:


Hewitt Bostock: I regret to inform the
House that owing to a death in his family, Major A. R. Thompson, the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod, cannot attend this afternoon. I have therefore received the following message from the Senate:
Resolved that a message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that it is the Deputy Governor's desire that they attend him immediately in the Senate chamber.
A. E. Blount,
Clerk of the Senate.
Accordingly, the House went up to the Senate,
And having returned,
Mr. Speaker informed the House that the Deputy of His Excellency the Governor General had been pleased to give in His Majesty's name the royal assent to the following bill:
An act for the granting to His Majesty a certain sum of money for the public service for the financial year ending 31st March, 1927.
On motion of Mr. Mackenzie King, the House adjourned at 3.40 p.m., until Tuesday, February 8, 1927.
Tuesday, February 8, 1927