1922-04-19

PRIVATE BILLS


[Stage Direction]
Bill No. 48, respecting Aberdeen Fire Insurance Company.-Mr. Manion.
Bill No. 49, respecting Armour Life Assurance Company.-Mr. Manion.
Bill No. 50, to incorporate The Sisters of Saint Mary of Namur.-Mr. Demers.

[Stage Direction]
(Questions answered orally are indicated by an asterisk.)

Mr. MACDONALD (Pictou):: 1.	What quantity of coal was imported into Canada during the calendar year 1921 front

Questions
the United States for the Canadian National Railway, exclusive of the Grand Trunk?
2.	What was the cost per ton of the said coal at the border?
3.	What amount was paid for said coal?


Hon. Mr. KENNEDY:: 1.	977,696 net tons.
2.	$5.10 per net ton.
3.	$4,992,694.97.


NOTES FOR INCOME TAXES
Mr. HALBERT:: 1.	Has a note been accepted in payment of income tax from any firm or individual other than the Riordon Pulp and Paper Company?
2.	If so, from what firm or individual?
3.	On what dates, and for what amounts?


Hon. Mr. FIELDING:: Several notes
were received, which were regarded by the officials as an acknowledgment of indebtedness, but not as payment. No such notes are now received.
The Minister of Finance has doubt of the propriety of making public transactions between the Government and citizens respecting income taxes. In England it is understood such information is regarded as confidential. The right of Parliament to full information regarding public business being recognized, a predecessor of the present minister held that if information of this kind was desired a motion for it should be placed on the order paper, and upon discussion the House should judge whether
the public interests required it to be brought down.


CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS- PASSENGER TRAFFIC
Mr. STEWART (Leeds):: 1.	How many different passenger rates are in effect on each of the systems of railways under government ownership in Canada?
2.	Under what titles or headings are the classifications made, and what is the rate per mile for each classification?
3.	What percentage of the total number of passengers carried during the last financial year is embraced in each class?
4.	What percentage of the total yearly revenue of the last financial year was derived from each of such passenger rates?


Hon. Mr. KENNEDY:: 1.	See attached statements, "A" as to Canadian National Railways, and "B" as to Grand Trunk Railway, Canadian Lines.
2.	See above-mentioned statement "B" as to Grand Trunk and "C" as to Canadian National Railways.
3.	Existing methods of accounting do not provide for the separation of the number of passengers in accordance with the various classifications of rates. To secure such information would require an analysis of all the original detailed records, such as conductors' train reports, etc., for the entire year. Information, therefore, is not available.
4.	See answer to No. 3.


STATEMENT &quot;A&quot;-CANADIAN NATIONAL LINES.
[Stage Direction]
Regular Passenger Fares		Special Passenger Fares	
Number of rates	Description	Number of rates	DescriptionCanadian Northern Ry	3 [DOT]	First class one way	33 30	For details see Statement "C" in connection with Question 2.Grand Trunk Pacific Ry	3 {	One month return	
First class one way	1 Second class one way	>	Canadian Government Rail-	l 3 {	One month return	J First class one way	
Second class one way	1	36	ways.	l	One month return	
Questions

[Stage Direction]
Classification of Passenger Traffic on Grand Trunk Railway System Lines in Canada Showing Current Rate per Mile for Each Class (April 7, 1922)
Classification	Rate per mile	Classification	Rate per mile
	cts.		cts.
	3-45		2-3
	3-00		1
	2-30		[ 1-725
	2-587		
One Month R.T	3 105	Rescue Officers Salvation Army Women	Commercial Trav. RT (Wk. End)	1-725	Entertainment Parties visiting Military	1-725Mileage Ticket	2-100	Hospitals.	Commutation, 50-R	0-85 (a)	Live Stock Attendants returning Western	1-725" 40-R	0-425(a)	Canada.	" 10-R	2-50 (a)	Men in charge perishable fruit returning	1-725Excess Baggage	0-48	to points east of Levis and Megantic.	Cert. Plan Arrangements-	Missionary, Eleemosynary, etc	1-7253-105	2-32-587	1-725Military and Naval-	Soldiers Land Settlement	1-03-0	0-6 (b)2nd Class	2-33	Dominion Provincial Employment Ser-	2-70350 or more-all ranks (over 100 miles).	2-0	vice.	Royal Can. Mounted Police (R.N.W.	2-5	Empire Parliamentary Association, one-	1-725M.P.).	way.	Charitable Homes (inmates)	2-3	Empire Parliamentary Association,	1-725Charitable Homes (attendants and	1-725	Round Trip.	Officers).	(a)	Minimum per ride 7\ cents except where local fare of 5 cents exists.(b)	Minimum fare of 50 cents applying for distance of 90 miles or less.
[Stage Direction]
Questions

[Stage Direction]
-	1st Class Per Mile	2nd Class Per Mile	One Month Return Per MileCanadian Northern Railway-	c.	c.	c.3-45	Nil	3-105Exceptions-	Line Tannis to Brazeau and Main Line Wolf Creek-Vancouver. ..	40	Nil	3 6Lines in Quebec, also Hawkesbury-Ottawa	3	Line Hudson Bay to Le Pas	3-5	Nil	315Grand Trunk Pacific Ry.-	All lines	3-45	Nil	3 105Exceptions-	Line Wolf Creek to Prince Rupert	40	Nil	3-6Canadian Government Railways-	Intercolonial Ry., 1 to 200 miles	3-45	2-3	2-795Prince Edward Island Ry.-	201 to 300 miles	3 105	2-070	2-515301 to 400 miles	2-875	1-917	2-329401 to 600 miles	2-760	1-84	2-236601 to 800 miles	2-645	1-763	2-143801 and over miles	2-530	1-687	2-050Exceptions-	Line Montreal to Levis, inclusive	30	Transcontinental Ry.-1 to 225 miles	3-45	2-3	2-795Line Moncton to Charny-	226 to 300 miles	3-335	2-223	2-702301 to 400 miles	3-105	2-070	2-515401 to 500 miles	2-99	1-993	2-422Transcontinental Ry.-	Line Quebec to Hearst	3-45	3-0	3-105Line Hearst to Winnipeg and Fort William	3-45	Nil	3-105Cape Breton Ry	3-45	Nil	3-105Quebec and Saguenay Ry	3-45	Nil	3-105Lotbiniere and Megantic Ry	3-45	3-0	3-105Salisbury and Albert Ry	3-45	Nil	2-795Elgin and Havelock Ry	3-45	Nil	2-795Moncton and Buctouche Ry	3-45	2-3	2-795St. Martins Ry	3-45	Nil	2-795St. John and Quebec Ry	3-45	Nil	2-795Caraquet and Gulf Shore Ry	4	Nil	3-6International Ry. of N.B	4	2-75	3-6York and Carleton Ry	4	Nil	4
Questions
STATEMENT "C" CANADIAN NATIONAL LINES-SPECIAL FARES Exhibit "B" Special Fares
Class	Applies over lines indicated by "X"	Territory	Bases of Fares	Can Nor. Ry.	G.T.P. Ry.	Can. Gov. Ry.	One Way	Round Trip1st	X	X	X	(a) From Eastern Canada to Western Canada and Pacific	(6) From Prairie Provinces to	first class one way fare less 10%. Double regular first class one way fare less 10%.1st	X	X	X	Port Arthur, Armstrong, Ont.	2-3c. per mile... Blanket rate of $25.00 to Edmonton, Calgary and inter m e d i ate points.plus 2c. per mile to points beyond 2 cents per mile. $16.00 to Edmonton and $17.90 to Calgary, plus 2c. per mile to points beyond. 2 cents per mile.	2nd	X	X	X	(а)	From Montreal, Toronto, Niagara Falls, Windsor, Sarnia, and other points in Eastern Canada to destinations in Western Canada. (б)	Winnipeg, Port Arthur, Brandon, Calgary, Edmonton and Regina to destinations in Western Canada. (c) Vancouver to destinations	2nd	X	X	(a) From Calgary, Edmonton or Saskatoon or destinations in Western Canada (to bona fide settlers from Europe).	2nd	X	X	X	(a) From Eastern Canada to Western Canada.	One-half regular first class one way fare.	2nd	X	X	X	(6) Between Stations Port Arthur, Armstrong, Ont., and West.	« l-725c. per mile.	2nd 2nd	X X	X X	X X	Ont., Montreal and East on Can. Govt. Rys. also from Can. Nor. Ry. Stations in Ontario to Can. Govt. Rys stations east of Levis. From Montreal and Quebec to destinations Winnipeg and West. Between Stations Port Arthur. Armstrong, Ont., and West,	One-half regular first class oneway fare*	1st 1st	2-3c. per mile... One-half regular first class one way fare. 2-3 cents per	2-3c. per mileeach way. Regular first(а)	From stations in Ontario and Quebec to destinations in Northern Quebec. (б)	From stations in Ontario and Quebec to destinations in Northern Ontario. (c)	From stations in Quebec to destinations in Matapedia Valley. (d)	From G.T.P. stations in Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta to destinations in British Columbia (Tete Juane to Terrace inch).	class one wah fare. 3-45 cents pemile. u	mile.Two thirds of	One and one2nd	regular second class one-way fare. 2 cents per mile	third regular second-classk one-way fare. 2 cents per mileto E d s o n, Alta., plus 2 cents per mile beyond.	to Edson plus 3 cents per mile beyond each way.
Description
1. AH Year Tourist Fares	
2. Barnardo Homes,Inmates of	
3o. Canada Land Settlement Agency (Applies for bona fine settlers from the United States).
fide settlers from Europe).
, Caretakers-L i v e Stock (Returning to their homes after accompany ing shipments.
Freight.
for export.
" Fresh fruit Vegetables Liquors, Minerals and aerated waters.
5.	Charitable Homes-
Inmates of
6.	Charitable Homes-
Officers and Attendants of
7.	Colonization...
Mr. W. C. Kennedy.]

Questions
STATEMENT "C" CANADIAN NATIONAL LINES-SPECIAL FARES-Con.
Description	C ass	Applies over lines indicated by "X"	Can. Nor. Ry.	G.T.P. Ry.	Can. Gov Ry.8. Commutation fares-	9. Commercial Travellers One-Way and Week-End Return.	1st	X	X	X10. Conventions-150 or more in attendance	1st	X	X	XConventions-75 or	1st	more in attendance	11. Employees of Rail-	1st	X	X	Xways and Steamship Companies.	or 2nd	12. Empire Parliamentary Association.	1st	X	X	X13. Entertainment Par-	ties visiting Military Hospitals. 14. Excursions and Pil-	1st	grimages Organized.	15. Exhibitions and Fall Fairs.	1st	X	X	X16. Family Summer Resort and Seabathing 10 Round Trip Tickets.	
Territory
Bases of Fares
(e) In commutation zones on Can. Northern and G.T.P Railways.
Between station not more than 50 miles apart on Intercolonial and Prince Edward Island Railways (east of St. Hyacinthe).
(6) " " "
All stations in Canada.
(c)
(d) New Glasgow-Trenton Westville District.
(a) All stations in Canada, except locally Cochrane, Armstrong, Ont. and Cap-reol, Port Arthur, Ont. inelusive.
Exception:
(1)	Wolf Creek, Alta., Vancouver, Prince Rupert, inclusive.
Tannis, Brazeau, Alta., inclusive.
(2)	Hudson Bay Junction. Sask., The Pas, Man., incl,
(а)	Quebec, Levis and West Canada.
(б)	East of Quebec and Levis.
One Way.
2$ cents per mile minimum rate per trip, 7$ cents.
4J mills per mile, minimum rate per trip, 7$ cents.
8Jmiljs per mile minimum rate per trip, 7 \ cents.
Approximately
If cents per mile.
2-587 cents per mile.
3 cents per mile mile.
2-625 cents per mile.
Round Trip.
All stations in Canada.
All stations, Port Arthur, Armstrong, Ont. and East.
East of Quebec and Levis, Que. only.
To points of Exhibitions in Canada, from adjacent territory.
From Montreal, Quebec, .. Halifax, or St. John to Summer Resort at Seabathing points east of Quebec and Levis.
One half regu-I a r fare charged G e n e r ' Public.
One half regular first class oneway fare.
Regular first class one-way fare for weekend and return tickets.
Regular first-one-way fare and one half.
Regular first class one-way fare and two-fifths.
One half regula
fare charged
General
Public.
Regular first class one-way fare.
Regular first class one-way fare.
Railway accepts regular first class one-way fare from Organizers, who sell to the Public at r e g u 1 a r first class oneway fare, plus 15% with maximum of 75 cents retaining the difference to defray expenses.
Regular first class one-way fare and one third.
egular first class one-way lare and one-third per each round trip.
59i
932	COMMONS
Questioyis
STATEMENT "C" CANADIAN NATIONAL LINES-SPECIAL FARES-Con.
Description
17. Farm Laborers.
18. Field Crop Competi-titions, judges of
19. Homeseekers.
20. Immigrant fares for Passengers from Europe.
Class
2nd
21. Indians..
22. Indian Hop Pickers.
23.	Laborers under direction of _ Dominion Provincial Employ ment Service.
24.	Male Ex. Members
and Ex-Nursing Sisters of Canadian Expeditionary For ces receiving treatment or training at Hospitals or Institutions of Department of Soldier's Civil Re-Establishment.
25.	Male Members of
Canadian Expeditionary Forces under medical treat ment travelling on Furlough.
26.	Market Return Fares
27. Mileage Books-1,000 Miles	
1st
2nd.
1st and 2nd
3rd
2nd
2nd
2nd
2nd
2nd
1st
Applies over lines ind cated by "X"
Can.
Nor.
Ry.
1st
2nd.
1st.
1st.
[Stage Direction]
Ry.
Can.
Gov.
Ry.
Territory
From Eastern to Western Canada to assist in Harvest operations	
To points of Exhibitions in Canada.
From Eastern Canada.
to Western
Bases of Fares
One Way Round Trip
Going - F rom Quebec, Levis and West $15 to Winnipeg. From St. John N.B. $20 to Winnipeg. To points west of Winnipeg i thorized rate to Winnipeg plus one half cent per mile.
From Halifax, St. John, Quebec and Montreal to destinations in Canada.
From Halifax, St. John, Quebec and Montreal to stations Winnipeg and West in Cana-ada.
(а)	Intercolonial Ry. Prince Edward Island Ry. and International Ry. of N.B (stations Levis and East).
(б)	Can. Nor. Ry. (Ruel to Port Arthur only).
(c)	Port Arthur, Armstrong, Ont. and West, in Canada, also from Transcontinental Ry. stations Goodwin, Ont. Winnipeg, Man. inc.l. to Coch rane and vice vers.
(d)	Can. Nor. Ry. (Stations Vancouver to Albreda, B.C. incl. only).
All stations in Canada...
Regular 1st and 2nd class oneway fares not however to exceed fares authorized from New York and Portland, Me. $35 from Port of Landing to Winnipeg plus $ cent per mile 1*15 cents per mile.
All stations in Canada..
One half lowest regular one way fare.
2*3 cents
mile.
per
Returning-From Points West of Winnipeg $ c. per mile to Winnipeg plus authorized rate East of Winnipeg. From Winnipeg, $20 to stations Quebec, Levis and West-and $25 to St. John, N.B.
Regular first class one way fare and one third.
Regular second class one way fare and one half.
2-7 cents per mile, minimum $4.
All stations in Canada..
Between stations on Intercolonial Rly. (Ste. Hyacinthe and East).
(а)	Stations in Canada, Port Arthur, Armstrong, Ont. and East.
(б)	Canadian Government Railway Stations (Ste. Hya-cinthe and East).
3 [DOT] 1 cents per mile.
3 [DOT] 1 cents per mile.
Lowest regular one way fare.
2-3 cents pe mile each way
Regular one way first class fare
Regular first class one way fare.
Regular first class one way fare.
Approximately 2-05 cents per mile each way
[Stage Direction]
Questions
93b
STATEMENT "C" CANADIAN NATIONAL LINES-SPECIAL FARES-Con.
Description
Class
Applies over lines indicated by "X"
Can.
Nor.
Ry-
[Stage Direction]
Ry.
Can.
Gov.
Ry.
Territory
Bases of Fares
One Way
Round Trip
27. Mileage Books-Con. Lumber-Workmen
2nd.
2nd.
[Stage Direction]


28. Militia and Forces.
Naval
1st and 2nd
29. Missionary, Charit- 1st
able-Eleemosynary Workers.
30. Press, Members of	1st
the.
31.	Royal Canadian
Mounted Police.
32.	Salvation Army-
Rescue Officers (Women).
33.	Salvation Army-
Prison Gate Officers.
34.	Second class return
fares.
1st
1st
1st
2nd
35. Sisters of Charity, Nuns and Deaconlst
36.
37.
esses.
Soldiers' Land Set- 1st tlement (for ExMembers of C.E.
F.)	_
Summer Tourist 1st Fares.
(c)	Stations on International Railway of N.B.
(d)	Stations on Transcontinental Railway. (Quebec City to Nottaway, Que. inch)
All stations in Canada	
2-875 cents per mile.
3 cents per mile.
First Class- 3 cents per mile.
Second Class-2$ cents per mile.
Exception:	For Bodies of
Troops by special train numbering 350 or more and travelling distances over 100 miles.
All stations in Canada	
All stations in Canada	
Exceptions: Wolf Creek, Alta. Vancouver-Prince Rupert, inch Tannis-Brazeau, Alta, inch Hudson Bay Jet., Sask. The Pas, Man. inch All stations in Canada	
2J cents per mile
One-half regular first class one way fare.
2-3 cents per mile.
21 cents per mile
21 cents per mile
All stations in Canada	
All stations in Canada	
Between stations on Prince Edward Island only.
One-half regular first class one way fare.
One-half regular first class one way fare.
All stations in Canada.
All stations in Canada-for distances of not less than fifty (50) miles.
One-half regular first class one way fare.
1 cent per mile..
First Class-3 cents per mile each way.'
Second Class-2| cents per mile each way.
21 cents per mile each way.
Regular first class one way fare.
2[DOT]3 cents per mile each way 21 cents per mile each way.
21 cents per mile each way.
Regular first class one way fare.
Regular first class one way fare.
Approximately 2-05 cents per mile each way
Regular first class one way fare.
1 cent per mile each way.
To summer tourist resorts and stations in Canada.
Double regular first class one way fare less 10%.
Questions

Mr. PUTNAM:: 1.	What quantity of railway ties have been purchased by the Canadian National Railway in Nova Seotia since November 30th, 1921?
2.	What are the names of the parties from
whom said ties were purchased and the quantity in each case?
3.	What was the price paid?


Hon. Mr. KENNEDY:: 1.	150,130.
2.
Contractor	Quantity	Price	No. 1	No. 2	No. 31,000	60	50	25Bent, C. M 	10,000	70	60	30500	60	50	3010,000	70	60	3510,000	70	60	303,000	60	50	30300	60	50	30000	60	50	301,000	60	50	302,000	60	50	302,000	60	50	302,000	60	50	3025,000	70	60	30200	60	50	30500	60	50	308,400	60	50	302,500	60	50	302,000	60	50	30880	60	50	30300	60	50	30McCabe, C. A 	2,500	60	50	303,000	60	50	3015,000	70	GO	3010,000	70	60	30400	60	50	30600	60	50	30350	58	48	282,000	65	55	30500	60	50	30500	60	50	30400	60	50	30800	60	50	301,000 100	60	50	3060	50	30. 300	60	50	30500	60	50	305,000	65	55	27)15,000	70	60	3510,000	70	60	303. See answer to question No. 2.	orders IN COUNCIL


FREIGHT RATES
Mr. STEWART (Lanark):: Is it the intention of the Government to introduce legislation at this session to continue the provisions of subsection (5) of section 325 of the Railway Act, 1919, or to in any way further suspend the freight rate provisions of chapter 5 of the Statutes of Canada 60-61, passed on the 29th of June, 1897, which would become operative on and after July 6 next, or to repeal or vary or in any way amend said chapter 5?


Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE KING:: The
subject of freight rates is being referred for consideration to a committee of the House, and is receiving the consideration of the Government. Should it be found necessary or desirable to introduce legislation at this session, intimation to this effect will be given in due course.


Mr. CHAPLIN:: How many Orders in Council have been passed by the present Government since it came into office on the 29th day of December, 1921, up to and including the 31st of March, 1922?


William Lyon Mackenzie King: Orders in Council-
Establishing regulations under
legislation	 35
Administrative	608
Routine	 91

	734
Treasury Board minutes-
Administrative	497
Routine	129

 626
Total	1,360

Questions


Mr. ANDERSON:: How many Orders in Council were passed by the late government during the months of January, February and March, 1921?


William Lyon Mackenzie King: Orders in Council passed during January, February and March, 1921:
Orders in Council-
Administrative	878
Establishing regulations under
legislation	 30
Routine	 62

	970
Treasury Board minutes-
Administrative	247
Routine	 53

	300
Total	1,270


DOMINION NOTES
Mr. SPENCER:: 1.	How many dollars in Dominion notes were passed over by the hon. Finance Minister White to Mackenzie and Mann on the guaranteed bonds of the Canadian Northern Railway?
2.	How many dollars in Dominion notes did Mr. White, as Minister of Finance, pay to the Grand Trunk Railway on bonded security?


Hon. Mr. FIELDING:: 1.	Under authority of Orders in Council detailed hereunder, $10,000,000 by way of the issue of Dominion notes were paid to the Canadian Northern Railway company, on the security of $12,500,000 bonds of the Canadian Northern Railway company deposited with the Minister of Finance.
Date and number of	Amount
Order in Council	of advance
Sept. 5, 1914,	P.C.	2325	
$2,500,000Sept. 26, 1914,	P.C.	2450	
2,500,000Oct. 24, 1914,	P.C.	2670	
2,000,000Nov. 20, 1914,	P.C.	2921	
2,000,000Dec. 16, 1914,	P.C.	3170	
1,000,0002.	Moneys were advanced about the same time to the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway company, but not to the parent Grand Trunk Railway company.^


CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION-CHIEF OF ORGANIZATION BRANCH
Mr. FOURNIER:: 1.	What is the name and age of the chief of the Organization Branch of the Civil Service Commission?
2.	When was he first appointed to the commission, in what capacity and at what salary?
3.	Was he appointed after competitive examination?
4.	What experience had he fitting him for this position?
5.	On what date, month and year, was he appointed as chief of the said Organization Branch, and at what salary?
6.	Was his appointment retroactive?
7.	If so, to what date, month and year, and on whose recommendation?
8.	Did he receive any back pay?
9.	If so, what amount?
10.	What increase has he received each year since 1918?


Hon. Mr. COPP:: 1.	C. V. Putman, 33 years.
2.	Temporary, to assist in classification work November 15, 1918, at $1,500.
3.	Yes, when permanently appointed.
4.	Six and a half years' banking experience, eight years of. engineering experience; nearly two years of experience in classification work.
5.	January 11, 1922, at $3,840.
6.	Yes.
7.	April 1, 1921. The Civil Service Commission.
8.	Yes.
9.	$450.
10.	1918-Answered by No. 2.
1919-	Appointed Acting Chief, Organization Branch, March 1919. Temporary $2,700.
1920-	Appointed Assistant Chief, Organization Branch, and Acting Chief, March 1920. Permanent $3,060.
1921-	Promoted to Chief, Organization Branch, permanent, at $3,840.


VENEREAL DISEASES
Mr. ROSS (Kingston):: 1.	What amounts are contributed yearly by
the Department of Health to provincial authorities for purposes of combating venereal diseases? *	.
2.	What amount of such sum is unexpended by each province for the year 1921?
3.	Has the federal Department of Health any control of the amount contributed?


Hon. Mr. BELAND:: 1.	For 1921 the following amounts were
contributed:	New Brunswick, $7,517.83;
Nova Scotia, $10,573.86; Alberta, $11,979.62; Manitoba, $12,611.20; British Columbia, $14,628.19; Saskatchewan, $15,361.63; Quebec, $47,388.80; Ontario, $57,473.68. The province of Prince Edward Island declined to enter into the scheme; therefore, no contribution was made to that province.
2.	None.
3.	Yes.
Questions


ST. THOMAS-NIAGARA FALLS HIGHWAY
Mr. CHAPLIN:: 1.	Has any federal grant been paid on the cost of the provincial highway from St. Thomas to Niagara Falls, Ontario?
2.	What is the distance from the Village of Canboro to the Village of Allanburg, via Dunn-ville and Welland, how many railway crossings are there, and has any federal grant been paid towards the cost of this section of the said highway?
3.	What is the estimated cost of this section of the said highway?
4.	What is the distance from Canboro village straight east, following the old Canboro or Talbot road to the village of Allanburg. How many railway crossings are there on this section, and was any estimate prepared for this route?
5.	Why was such a big bow put in the road between Canboro and Allanburg villages, at such an increased mileage and expense?


Hon. Mr. KENNEDY:: 1.	No.
2.	36.9 miles; eight railway crossings; no federal grant paid.
3.	This section has not been separately estimated. Portion from Canboro to Dunn-ville estimated to cost at rate of $29,918 per mile.
4.	25.8 miles. Four railway crossings. This department has no information of any estimates made.
5.	Road was located through Dunnville and Welland for following reasons: 1st. Following practice of the provincial government of reaching county seats and larger centres of each county. 2nd. With object of connecting in future with an extension of the provincial system on the old Garrison road through townships of Bertie, Humberstone and Wainfleet to Fort Erie.


WELLAND CANAL-TONNAGE
Mr. CHURCH:: How many vessels, and of what 'tonnage, passed through the Welland Canal during each year since 1913?


Hon. Mr. ROBB:: Year	Vessels		Cargo in Tons
	No.	Registered T onnage	
1913	3,229	3,164,530	3,570,7141914	3,692	3,635,695	3,860,9691915	2,922	2,855,195	3,061,0121916	2,939	2,513,619	2,544,9641917	3,251	2,776,261	2,490,5421918	3,192	2,595,389	2,174,2981919	3,213	2,616,014	2,170,7791920	3,124	2,528,256	2,276,0721921	3,770	3,329,371	3,076,422

STEAM RAILWAY FREIGHT-TORONTO Mr. CHURCH:
What was the total gross freight tonnage entering and leaving Toronto on steam railways since 1914?


James Alexander Robb: Information in full not available, but a record begun in the Dominion Bureau of Statistics, September, 1920, shows the following for the year ended October 31, 1921:-
Freight loaded on cars in
Toronto	 1,155,599 tons
Freight unloaded from cars
in Toronto	 4,600,301 tons
VICKERS DRY DOCK Mr. MARLER:
1.	WThat subsidy, if any. was paid per annum by the late government to Vickers Dry Dock, Montreal?
2.	On what valuation was this subsidy based?
3.	What does said valuation include in the way of plant, tools, machinery, fixed assets and so forth?
4.	Was subsidy originally intended to be paid only on construction of actual dock?
5.	Is the subsidy to be continued?
6.	If so, on what basis and on what valuation?


Hon. Mr. KING (Kootenay):: 1.	$105,000.00.
2 and 3. Valuation includes: Buildings, $561,075; fixed plant, $199,915; machine tools in machine and ship departments, $479,955; electrical equipment, $178,495; patent self-docking floating dock of 25,000 tons lifting capacity, $1,775,000; rent to be paid, capitalized at 4 per cent, $353,015; interest, during construction of plant, 5 per cent for half year on $3,000,000, $75,000; total, $3,622,455.	'
4.	No.
5.	Yes.
6.	The value established was $3,000,000, and under the Dry Dock Subsidies Act 9-10 Edw. VII., chap. 17 (1910), a subsidy at the rate of 31 per cent is payable annually for a period of 35 years from January 1st, 1914.
PARLIAMENT HILL MONUMENTS Mr. St. PERE:
1.	Is it the intention of the Federal Govern-merit to erect on Parliament Hill monuments of our celebrated statesmen?
2.	If so, when will the monument of the late Sir Wilfrid Laurier be erected?


Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE KING:: 1.	The policy pursued in' the past will be continued.
2.	In the near future.

Questions


MR. E. BERTRAND
Mr. PREYOST:: 1.	Is Mr. E. Bertrand a permanent official of the Labour Department at Montreal?
2.	If so, does he receive a lower salary than others holding similar positions at Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto, and what is the reason for the distinction?


Hon. Mr. MURDOCK:: 1.	Mr. T. Bertrand is a permanent official of the Labour Department at Montreal.
2.	Mr. Bertrand was classified by the Civil Service Commission as "Junior Wage Investigator and Mediator," with a salary range of $1,500 to $1,860. The Fair Wages Officers at Vancouver, Calgary, and Toronto were each given, by the Civil Service Commission, the classification "Wage Investigator and Mediator," with a salary range of $1,980 to $2,400.
Mr. W. E. CAMPBELL


Mr. BOWEN:: 1.	Has W. E. Campbell been recently appointed to advise the Minister of Railways or Deputy Minister of Railways, or the Board of Railway Commissioners in regard to traffic matters, or has he been appointed in any capacity, and for what duties?
2.	If so, is such appointment permanent or temporary, and if the latter, for what period?
3.	Is Mr. W. E. Campbell the gentleman who has held the position of Secretary of the Canadian Freight Association, Western Lines?
4.	If so, has he resigned such position?
5.	Is Mr. Campbell's appointment for the special purpose of advising the government regarding the Crow's Nest Pass agreement?


Hon. Mr. KENNEDY:: 1.	W. E. Campbell has been appointed as a rate expert to assist the Board of Railway Commissioners in an advisory capacity.
2.	Is employed by the month for such period as may be found necessary.
3.	Was secretary of the association in question until September 18th last, when he was appointed chairman.
4.	At present Mr. Campbell is on leave of absence from his late duties.
5.	No.


CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS-KAM-LOOBS-KELOWNA BRANCH
Mr. McBRIDE:: 1.	What has been the total amount of expenditure in connection with the Kamloops-Kelowna Branch of the Canadian National Railways?
2.	When does the Canadian National Railway Board intend to complete the said branch?


Hon. Mr. KENNEDY:: 1.	Expenditure to December 31st, 1921, $5,268,156.45.
2.	Completion of this branch as well as other branches deferred until financial conditions permit construction.


CIVIL SERVICE RETIREMENT FUND-INCOME TAX
Mr. CHURCH:: 1.	Did the Department of Finance, during the month of March, send out a circular letter to the accountants of the several public departments at Ottawa enclosing a statement showing the amount of interest added for the calendar year 1921 to the Retirement Fund accounts of the several employees of the public service, from whose salaries Retirement Fund reduction is made monthly?
2.	Did such circular letter request the accountants of the several departments "to notify the employees concerned that the amount of this interest is to be included in their declaration of income tax for 1921, providing they come within the scope of the Dominion of Canada Income War Tax Act?
3.	Upon whose authority was such letter communicated to the several departments?
4.	Before the notification was sent out, was it submitted to the Honourable the Minister of Finance for his approval?
5.	Was the opinion of the Department of Justice obtained as to the legality of such notification? If so, what was the opinion of that department?
6.	Is it obligatory or optional on the part of any permanent employee of the Government not on the old "Superannuation List" to come under the Retirement Fund?
7.	If obligatory, can an employee paying to the Retirement Fund deduct from his declaration of income the amount of his annual contribution to such fund?
8.	Is the interest allowed on Retirement Fund contributions paid annually to the officials affected, or is it retained by the Government?
9.	Is a Civil Servant who has to pay income tax annually upon the full amount of his income, less the statutory deduction, taxed both for Retirement Fund principal and Interest withheld from him by the government?


Hon. Mr. FIELDING:: 1.	Yes.
2.	Yes.
3.	Upon the request of the Commissioner of Taxation for the convenience of the members of the Civil Service concerned.
4.	No.
5.	No.
6.	Obligatory.
7.	No.
8.	Interest on Retirement Fund accounts is retained by the Government and added to the amount at the credit of the respective officials.
9.	A civil servant's salary is subject to income tax law and no allowance is made for deductions on account of Retirement Fund. The annual increment of interest on retirement fund balances is considered as part of income and subject to income tax law.

Questions


CANADIAN NATIONAL RAILWAYS-PENSION FUND
Mr. GAUVREAU:: 1.	Is it the intention of the Department of Railways and Canals or the Board of Commissioners of the Canadian National Railways to reorganize the pension fund of the said railways so as to increase the pensions to employees?
2.	If so, when?


Hon. Mr. KENNEDY:: 1.	Investigation is now being conducted, and it is hoped shortly to present for consideration a complete pension scheme for the Canadian National Railways.
2.	Answered by No. 1.


Mr. GAUVREAU:: 1.	Is it the intention of the Department of Railways to increase the pension paid to the old employees of the Intercolonial Railway?
2.	If so, when?


Hon. Mr. KENNEDY:: 1.	The current estimates of the Department of Railways includes a vote of $50,000, the same as last year, to provide for increasing the minimum compensation from $20 to $30 per month for employees who have been superannuated under the present Provident Fund Act of the Intercolonial Railway.
2.	Answered by No. 1.


GRAND ANSE, C.B., MAIL SERVICE
Mr. JONES:: 1.	When were tenders received by the Post Office Department for carrying the mails from Grand Anse. via Arichat and West Arichat, Cape Breton?
2.	From whom were tenders received and for what amount in each case?
3.	To whom was the contract awarded, on what date, and what was the amount of the tender?


Hon. Mr. MURPHY:: 1.	November 4, 1921.
2.	(a) C. J. Terrio, $1,742; J. Doiron,
$1,765; S. A. Boucher, $2,000; E. C. Reinhardt, $2,000; G. Landry, $2,200.	(b)
These tenders being considered somewhat excessive for the amount of work involved the tenderers were given an opportunity to modify their offers and the following were received:	C. J. Terrio, $1,700; J.
Doiron, $1,700; S. A. Boucher, $1,750; E. C. Reinhardt, $1,878; G. Landry, $1,900.
3.	C. J. Terrio, the present contractor, having rendered satisfactory service and having completed arrangements to carry on the work, the contract was awarded to him on April 10, 1922, at the rate of $1,700 per annum.


POSTAL RECEIPTS
Mr. ARTHURS:: 1 What were the total Post Office receipts during each year, from 1911 to 1921, inclusive, in the town of Parry Sound, Ontario?
2. What towns or cities in Canada, having equal or less average Post Office receipts, have public buildings used for Post Office purposes?


Hon. Mr. MURPHY:: 1.	Parry Sound, Ontario,-1911, $6,951.36; 1912, $6,790.81; 1913, $7,397.54; 1914, $7,906.29; 1915, $7,743.09; 1916, $15,919.55; 1917, $17,807.23; 1918, $18,418.46; 1919, $17,844.86; 1920, $14,906.44; 1921, $14,443.80.
2.	Acton, Ontario, $6,728.04; Alexandria, Ontario, $8,729.45; Almonte, Ontario, $9,392.21; Amherstburg, Ontario, $8,267.11; Arnprior, Ontario, $14,301.65; Athens, Ontario, $3,983.06; Aurora, Ontario, $11,192.40; Aylmer West, Ontario, $12,897.70; Bowmanville, Ontario, $12,672.36; Burford, Ontario, $2,715.55; Bracebridge, Ontario, $12,668.39; Cardinal, Ontario, $5,058.06; Carleton Place, Ontario, $13,424.05; Cayuga, Ontario, $4,754.35; Chesley, Ontario, $8,586.80; Clinton, Ontario, $9,138.11-: Deseronto, Ontario, $5,749.12; Dresden, Ontario, $6,230.82; Eganville, Ontario, $5,568.90; Elmira, Ontario, $6,213.97; Elora, Ontario, $6,287.63; Essex, Ontario, $8,997.06; Fergus, Ontario, $14,644.76; Glencoe,-Ontario, $5,766.47; Grimsby, Ontario, $11,126.71; Hanover, Ontario, $13,112.12; Harris-ton, Ontario, $10,147,95; Hawkesbury, Ontario, $9,321.04; Kemptville, Ontario, $6,488.07; Kincardine, Ontario, $9,869.27; Lakefield, Ontario, $4,705.47; Leamington, Ontario, $14,279.30; Listowel, Ontario, $11,738.86; Markham, Ontario, $3,751.86; Milton West, Ontario, $8,932.00; Milverton, Ontario, $5,050.58; Mitchell, Ontario, $8,374.85; Mount Forest, Ontario, $10,139.10; Newmarket, Ontario, $14,897.91; Norwich, Ontario, $6,692.70; Orangeville, Ontario, $10,725.61; Palmerston, Ontario, $6,304.04; Park Hill, Ontario, $7,021.85; Petrolia, Ontario, $13,213.95; Port Col-borne, Ontario, $13,933.98; Port Perry, Ontario, $5,764.97; Prescott, Ontario, $11,284.25; Seaforth, Ontario, $10,447.91; Shelburne, Ontario, $7,186.21; Strathroy, Ontario, $11,580.97; Tilbury, Ontario, $5,414.10; Tillsonburg, Ontario, $14,588.54; Uxbridge, Ontario, $8,555.87; Walkerton, Ontario, $11,046.75; Whitby, Ontario, $11,631.47; Wingham, Ontario, $10,875.13; Acton Vale, P.Q. $3,176.67; Arthabaska, P.Q. $3,393.82; Aylmer East, P.Q. $3,476.40; Berthier (en haut), P.Q. $5,715.66; Buckingham, P.Q. $7,249.63; Coaticook,

Questions
P.	Q. $10,899.58; Cookshire, P.Q. $6,39545; Drummondville East, P.Q. $7,569.51; East Angus, P.Q. $6,156.29; Farnham, P.
Q.	$8,413.70; Granby, P.Q. $14,707.63;
Iberville, P.Q. $3,044.45; Jonquieres, P.Q. $5,033.70; Knowlton, P.Q. $5,316.55; La-chute, P.Q. $7,829.12; Lake Megantic, P.Q. $6,853.85; La Malbaie, P.Q. $4,544.47; La Prairie, P.Q. $3,154.18; Louiseville, P.Q. $3,676.73; L'Assomption, P.Q. $2,687.87; Levis, P.Q. $7,557.21; Magog, P.Q. $8,782.20; Marieville, P.Q. $2,865.69; Matane, P.Q. $5,418.60; Montmagny, P.Q. $7,397.36; Nicolet, P.Q. $5,109.35; Pierreville. P.Q. $3,109.47; Plessisville, P.Q. $4,807.22; Richmond,	P.Q.	$10,082.27;	Rigaud,	P.Q.$3,118.18; Rimouski, P.Q. $9,482.42; Rober-val, P.Q.	$7,869.25; Rock	Island,	P.Q.$8,517.62; Riviere du Loup (en bas), P.Q. $7,018.48;	Ste.	Agathe des	Monts,	P.Q.$8,380.99; St. Eustache, P.Q. $2,883.59; St. Gabriel de Brandon, P. Q. $2,663.47; St. Jerome, P.Q. $8,505.02; Ste. Therese de Blainville, P.Q. $4,872.75; Shawville, P.Q. $4,273.92; Sorel, P.Q. $11,188.16; Terrebonne, P.Q. $5,080.10; Valleyfield, P.Q. $10,587.32;	Victoriaville, P.Q.	$12,-744.07; Annapolis Royal, N.S. $6,750.37; Ariohat, N.S. $1,763.72; Baddeck, N.S. $2,787.91; Canso, N.S. $4,589.84; Digby, N.S. $8,670.45; Guysboro, N.S. $2,662.09; Inverness, N.S. $4,436.21; Liverpool, N.S. $9,524.69; Lunenburg, N.S. $11,327.67; Parrsboro,	N.S.	$6,487.50;	Pictou,	N.S.
$13,253.04; Shelburne, N.S. $4,865.60; Springhill, N.S. $9,073.12; Sydney Mines, N.S. $9,638.99; Trenton, N.S. $5,343.76; Westville, N.S. $6,611.07; Wolfville, N.S. $11,806.23; Bathurst, N.B. $11,829.73; Chatham, N.B. $12,938.56; Dalhousie, N.B. $4,988.22; Fairville, N.B. $4,831.16; Grand Falls, N.B. $5,605.47; Hampton Station, N.B. $2,685.32; Hartland, N.B. $4,778.99; Hillsborough. N.B. $2,880.97; Maryville, N.B. $2,194.21; Milltown, N.B. $2,314.69; Newcastle, N.B. $12,891.64; Richibucto, N.B. $2,754.80; Sussex, N.B. $14,361.47; Georgetown, P.E.I. $1,450.40; Montague, P.E.I. $4,839.36; Souris East, P.E.I. $4,709.13; Tignish, P.E.I. $2,593.95; Carman, Man. $8,560.72; Emerson, Man. $3,936.73; Minnedosa, Man. $9,457.22; Morden, Man. $7,495.58; Neepawa, Man. $11,538.85; Selkirk, Man. $7,717.51; Souris, Man. $8,68986; Stonewall, Man. $4,912.16; The Pas, Man. $6,897.13; Virden, Man. $9,674.04; Battleford, Sask. $9,585.57; Gravelbourg, Sask. $8,591.96; Humboldt, Sask. $11,719.28; Lloydminster, Sask. $9,913.14; Maple Creek, Sask. $10,746.59; Melfort, Sask. $12,965.21; Bassano, Alberta, $7,050-
96; Westaskiwin, Alberta, $14,777.99; Ashcroft, B.C. $5,131.48; Chilliwack, B.C. $13,151.34; Comox, B.C. $1,024.00; Cumberland, B.C. $6,504.98; Duncan's Station, B.C. $11,700.71; Grand Forks, B.C. $7,857.73; Greenwood, B.C. $2,765.48; Ladysmith, B.C. $5,963.30; Port Alberni, B.C. $4,618.32; Rossland, B.C. $8,480.85; Union Bay, B.C. $1,636.73.


CANADIAN MERCANTILE MARINE-PASSENGER TRAFFIC
Mr. MARTELL:: 1.	Was any person employed or any Commission appointed by the Board of Directors of the Canadian National Railway during the year 1921, to proceed to England to Investigate or report upon the question of passenger traffic on the Atlantic Ocean in connection with the Canadian Mercantile Marine?
2.	If so, who was appointed?
3.	What amount was paid for services rendered?


Hon. Mr. KENNEDY:: 1.	No.
2.	See answer to No. 1.
3.	See answer to No. 1.



QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURNS

Mr. LOGAN:: 1.	What was the quantity of coal imported from the United States into Canada in the years 1918-19, 1919-20, 1920-21 by the Government of Canada for use upon
(a)	Railways;
(b)	Federal buildings and public works?
2.	What was the amount of coal imported by the Government of Canada from United States during the above mentioned years for the use upon railways
(a)	East of Lake Superior;
(b)	West of Lake Superior?
3.	What was the cost of coal per ton imported by the Government of Canada from the United States during the above mentioned years
(a)	At point of production;
(b)	At point of Canadian delivery?


Mr. LANCTOT:: 1.	What is the total amount of the bonus paid to civil servants up to April 1, 1921?
2.	What is the total amount paid to civil servants on account of annual statutory increase for the fiscal years 1918, 1919, 1920 and 1921?


Mr. SHAW:: 1.	What offices, buildings or parts of buildings are rented for Government purposes in the city of Calgary?
2.	From what owners and through what rental agents are such offices, buildings or part3 of buildings rented?
3.	What rental is paid in each case?
4.	For what period are such offices, buildings or parts of buildings rented?
5.	Which of such leases, if any, have been renewed by the present Government?
Wheat Board


Mr. SUTHERLAND:: 1.	What amount of compensation has been paid out of the vote for health of animals, for cattle slaughtered affected with tuberculosis, during each of the years ending March 31, 1920, 1921 and 1922?
2.	What proportion of this amount was paid for animals slaughtered in herds supplying milk to the people in cities, towns and villages; not necessarily pure bred animals, during the years referred to?
3.	What proportion of the total grant paid was for animals under what is known as the accredited herd system of pure bred animals, during each of the years referred to?
4.	What was the amount paid out in connection with each of the pure breeds for which compensation was paid during each of the above years?
5.	What was the average compensation per animal paid in connection with each breed referred to in question four, during each of the above years?
6.	What was the total compensation paid in connection with each breed in each province during each of the three years referred to?
7.	How many veterinary inspectors have been employed by the health of animals branch of the Department of Agriculture in connection with the health of animals during each of the three years referred to?
8.	What has been the total amount paid in salaries to inspectors under the health of animals branch during the years above mentioned?



THE GRAIN TRADE


William Lyon Mackenzie King: With reference to the fourth
report of the Select Standing Committee on Agriculture and Colonization, in which the House concurred on the eleventh instant, I may say that the Government has obtained the written opinion of the law officers of the Crown upon the question thereby suggested as to the constitutionality of the reconstruction of the Canadian Wheat Board, and that opinion is now submitted for the information of the House. I would ask the permission of the House to have the opinion printed in Hansard so that it will be available in that form to hon. members.


Mr. SPEAKER:: Is it the pleasure of the House that permission be granted for the publication of this document in Hansard?


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Carried.
(The document referred to is as follows) : Ottawa, April 17, 1922. Memorandum for the Minister of Justice:
The House of Commons on 11th instant having concurred in a report of the Committee on Agriculture and Colonization recommending " that the question of the constitutionality of the reconstruction of the Wheat Board, with

the powers conferred thereon by the Orders-in-Council establishing or extending the same, be referred to the law officers of the Crown for their reasoned opinion", I submit for your consideration the following statement of my opinion.
The Canadian Wheat Board to which the resolution refers was constituted under authority of an Order-in-Council, No. 1589, of July 31, 1919, which was sanctioned, as therein expressed, " under and in virtue of the War Measures Act", and there are several^amending Orders, the principal one being No. 1741 of August 18, 1919. The powers, duties and rights of the Board as set forth in these Orders-in-Council were by the terms of an Act respecting the Canadian Wheat Board, Chapter 9 of 1919, second session, continued in force for eighteen months from the passing of that Act, November 10, 1919, and the Governor-in-Council was thereby empowered to fill vacancies and to make regulations for the extension, conduct or management of the business of the Board. The Orders-in-Council and the rules, regulations and orders made thereunder by the Board were moreover by the provisions of an Act concerning the Canadian Wheat Board, Chapter 5 of 1921, ratified and confirmed as and from their respective dates, and it was also thereby enacted that the Board should continue to exercise its powers so far as might be necessary and convenient for winding up and concluding the business of the Board.
By the Orders-in-Council the Board was empowered to make such enquiries and investigations as were necessary to ascertain _what supplies of wheat were or might be available from time to time; the locality and ownership of these supplies; the transportation and elevator facilities available therefor, and generally the conditions connected with the marketing of wheat.
The Board was also empowered to buy and sell wheat or wheat products at any point in Canada; to pay therefor the prices to be scheduled by the Board and approved by the Govemor-in-Council; to sell wheat to the millers in Canada at prices and upon conditions fixed by the Board; to store, transport and market wheat: to sell quantities in excess of domestic requirements to purchasers overseas or in other countries at such prices as might be obtainable; to provide for the retention and distribution in Canada of seed wheat required for the season of 1920 ; to fix maximum prices or margins of profit at which flour and other products made from wheat delivered to millers might be sold, and to fix standards of quality of flour; to purchase flour from millers at prices to be fixed by the Board, and to sell the flour in Canada or in other countries; to take possession of and to sell and deliver wheat stored in any elevator or warehouse, or in railway cars or Canadian boats, and to deal with the same as if acquired by the Board in ordinary course ; to control by license or otherwise the buying and selling of wheat and wheat products in Canada, and the export and sales of flour outside of Canada; to allocate Canadian lake tonnage and to distribute cars for rail shipments ; to provide that no person, firm or corporation other than the Board should buy wheat, operate any elevator or warehouse where wheat is received, or handle wheat on commission or otherwise, unless licensed by the Board ; to require that any wheat sold or purchased in Canada should be delivered to the Board, or to its order, in accordance with such regulations as the Board might make; to re-

Wheat Board
quire every licensee of the Board accepting delivery of wheat to pay the purchaser by way of an advance or cash payment such sum or sums as might be directed by the Board; to order any person holding wheat stored in any elevator or warehouse or in railway cars or Canadian boats to sell and dispose of the wheat to any purchaser named by the Board on such terms as the Board might direct, and it was provided that any such order of the Board should pass to the purchaser the property in the wheat therein described.
The Board was also empowered to prohibit the export out of Canada, or the importation into Canada, of any wheat or wheat products otherwise than in accordance with the orders or regulations of the Board, and to prescribe penalties for contravention of the orders or regulations of the Board.
There were some other powers conferred by these orders, of a subordinate or incidental character, which need not be more fully set out because the foregoing statement indicates sufficiently for present purposes the objects of the board and the scope and character of its powers.
It will be perceived that these powers naturally group themselves under two heads; there are enabling or facultative provisions, and there are compulsory provisions. As to those of the former class, I apprehend that Parliament has undoubted authority to constitute a board for the purpose of buying and selling, and to enable it to contract and to exercise such powers as are necessary or incidental to a voluntary undertaking.
The board is, however, invested with compulsory powers, and for the purpose of considering the authority of Parliament to constitute a commission clothed with these powers, it is well to mention some of them separately. They include (a) the fixing of maximum prices or margins of profit at which flour may be sold by the millers; (b) the compulsory taking of wheat in store or in transit subject to compensation fixed by the board, including power by order of the board to transfer the property in any wheat so stored or in transit to such purchaser, and upon such terms, as the board may nominate and prescribe;	(c) prohibition of
buying and selling wheat in Canada upon commission or otherwise, and the operating of elevators or warehouses for wheat, except by license of the board; (d) authority to require delivery to the board of all wheat sold or purchased in Canada; (e) regulation by the board of the dealings of its licensees.
These coercive powers would be exercisable by the reconstructed board in the provinces, and they directly affect property and the exercise of civil rights in the provinces; they enable the board generally, not only to have a monopoly of the trade in wheat, but also to regulate the price of flour manufactured in a province, even from wheat grown in that province ; they may be exercised to forbid trading in the provinces except by Dominion license. They are therefore powers of the character described by the British North America Act 1867 as relating to matters coming within "property and civil rights in the province," or "matters of a merely local or private nature in the province." Consequently, upon well established principles or interpretation, the reconstruction of the board with these powers is competent to the Parliament of Canada only if the necessary enacting authority be found in
the enumerated Dominion powers of legislation, in which case the prima facie provincial powers are overborne.
Comprehensive authority is conferred upon the Parliament of Canada to make laws for the peace, order and good government of Canada in relation to all matters not coming within the classes of subjects assigned exclusively to the provinces, and moreover there are enumerated subjects as to which the authority of Parliament is exclusive; one of these is the class of subjects described as "militia, military and naval service and defence," including the necessary or incidental powers exercisable in time of war for the defence of the country. No question is suggested as to the authority of Parliament, or of the Governor in Council under the War Measures Act and the confirming Acts, ' to give effect to the Orders in Council under which the former Wheat Board was established and exercised the powers expressed to be conferred upon it. The temporary nature of these powers is evidenced, not only by the Orders in Council themselves, but also by chapter 5 of 1921, whereby the Orders in Council were continued in force merely for the necessary and convenient purpose of winding up and concluding the unsettled business of the board, and thus it is plain that the provisions affecting the former board were sanctioned only as war measures.
The present inquiry is concerned with the question as to whether Parliament may in the existing circumstances reconstruct the board with its former powers, and it does not appear whether it be proposed to reconstruct upon a permanent or a temporary footing; that consideration, however, becomes immaterial if, as I think, the board cannot now be reconstituted as a war measure.
It might have been suggested that the exclusive power of Parliament with regard to "the regulation of trade and commerce" would extend to regulation of the wheat trade in the manner provided by the Orders in Council, but this power, comprehensive enough in its mere statement, has been limited by judicial interpretation ; and, compatibly with the decisions, it does not comprise the powers which would be necessary for the reconstruction of the Wheat Board.
The insurance trade was regulated by means of a system of licenses under the provisions of a series of statutes enacted by the Parliament of Canada from the time of the Union until 1910, but when the Consolidated Act of that year came to be reviewed by the courts it was held, both by the Supreme Court of Canada and by the judicial committee of the Privy Council, that the legislation was ultra vires, and their lordships of the judicial committee in pronouncing the judgment held that, as a result of the decisions, "it must now be taken that the authority to legislate for the regulation of trade and commerce does not extend to the regulation by a licensing system of a particular trade in which Canadians would otherwise be free to engage in the provinces." Attorney General for Canada vs. Attorney General for Alberta, 1916 Appeal Cases, at page 596.
Similarly in the recent case with regard to the Board of Commerce Act, and the Combines and Fair Prices Act, although the judges of the Supreme Court of Canada were equally divided in opinion, it was held by the judicial committee that the legislation, which was designed to prohibit the hoarding of the necessaries of life and to require the sale of them
Wheat Board

at fair prices, could not be upheld under the power to regulate trade and commerce.
It may be observed that the wheat trade is in some of its aspects not merely loca within the province of production. The greater part of the crop in the wheat growing provinces is exported, not only from the province of growth, but from the Dominion, and the trade thus assumes an interprovincial or foreign character; it is also a trade of great dimensions and importance affecting the interests of the whole Dominion; but in like manner the insurance trade in itself was not the less interprovincial or extra local; and moreover the fair distribution of the necessaries of life at reasonable prices, which seems to have been the dominant motive of the Board of Commerce and Fair Prices legislation, was a project of general importance and of common interest, potentially affecting the whole body politic.
In the Prohibition Case, 1896 Appeal Cases, at page 3*61, their lordships of the Judicial Committee expressed their conviction that "some matters, in their origin local and provincial, might attain such dimensions as to affect the body politic of the Dominion, and to justify the Canadian Parliament in passing laws for their regulation or abolition in the interests of the Dominion"; and apparently their lordships upheld the Canada Temperance Act, which was then under consideration, upon the ground that the dimensions of the liquor trade were such as to withdraw the particular subject matter of that Act from provincial powers. We are told however that the principle enunciated by the Prohibition Case is to be applied with great caution, and with reluctance, and that its recognition as relevant can be justified only after scrutiny sufficient to render it clear that the circumstances are abnormal. A constitutional power which is beset by these conditions, and which moreover depends upon the dimensions of its subject matter, is not a very safe one to rely upon; the principle has in fact been made effective only with relation to the Canada Temperance Act, notwithstanding that it was afterwards advocated in several cases where the subject of the enactment in question was held to remain provincial, although not lacking in growth, magnitude or general importance. Therefore I do not think that the dimensions doctrine can be successfully invoked to reconstitute the compulsory powers which were possessed by the Wheat Board,
It is clear that so long as a subject matter of legislation finds place within the enumerations of provincial powers it does not belong to the Dominion under its general authority to make laws for the peace, order and good government of Canada. It is certain that the essential compulsory powers of the Wheat Board are prima facie included in the provincial enumeration of property and civil rights or local matters in the provinces. In my opinion these powers do not lie within the field which may be occupied by the execution of the Dominion power to regulate trade and commerce, as that power has been expounded in successive decisions by the ultimate tribunal of appeal; and I think it may be affirmed without uncertainty that the necessary reconstructive powers are not comprehended in any other of the Dominion enumerations. While I do not suggest a doubt that conditions of export from the Dominion and foreign trade relations may be regulated by Parliament, I

am impressed wTith the view that these powers cannot be made a cover for legislation which denies the freedom of contract, capacity to buy and sell and the maintenance and exercise of proprietary rights which exist under the provincial laws. The powers of criminal legislation which belong exclusively to the Dominion are in their application to this case of an ancillary character and cannot as such be invoked to afford a sanction for measures in themselves ultra vires. Consequently it is my opinion that the reconstruction of the Wheat Board in the present circumstances with the powers conferred thereon by the Orders-in-Council is a project constitutionally incompetent to the Parliament of Canada.



E. L. NEWCOMBE.

[Stage Direction]
I concur,
Sir LOMER GOUIN,

[Stage Direction]
NOTICE OF MOTION TRANSFERRED On the motion:
For a copy of all letters, telegrams, memoranda, reports to Council, Orders in Council and other documents in the possession of or under the control of the Government, relating to the alleged application of the British Empire Steel Corporation for incorporation under the Companies Act or any other Statute of the Dominion of Canada.
Mr. L. H. MARTELL (Hants):: Mr. Speaker, I asked that this notice of motion for the production of papers be transferred to the debatable motions, and I understood that an order of the House was issued accordingly. I should like that to be done if possible.


Hewitt Bostock: The motion will be
transferred accordingly.
UNOPPOSED MOTIONS FOR PAPERS Mr. PUTNAM:
For a return showing a list of the amounts paid, and the persons or firms to whom they were paid, in respect of maintaining the price on the stock markets of Victory Bonds, from the year 1916 to the end of the year 1921. Also a copy of all letters, telegrams, accounts, receipts, memoranda, agreements and other documents relating to this matter.


Mr. SIMPSON:: For a copy of Timber License issued to the Union Bank of Canada or any other parties to cut timber on Indian Lands in the Township of Laird, District of Algoma, together with a copy of all correspondance, letters, memoranda, telegrams and other documents, passing between the Indian Agent at Sault Ste. Marie, the Licensees or any other parties, and the Department of Indian Affairs, in connection therewith. Also a statement of all dues paid the Department in respect to said License.



DAYLIGHT SAVING

Mr. W. F. KAY (Missisquoi) moved:: That, in the opinion of this House, it is desirable that legislation be introduced during

Daylight Saving
the present session to prohibit the adoption of Daylight Saving Time in any part of Canada.
He said:	Mr. Speaker, the resolution
which stands in my name is, I think, of the greatest interest to the people of Canada at the present time. During the war daylight saving was introduced in Canada as a war-time measure, in order that the people of this country should be able to devote an extra hour of the evening to cultivating land, especially in the cities, where, by working on garden plots during this extra hour of daylight, people were able to cultivate a good deal of ground in the aggregate, and so help production. At that time this Parliament enacted a measure enforcing daylight saving throughout the country, and the people without exception accepted the change of time. Since the war ended, this Parliament has not seen fit to re-enact daylight saving legislation, but many of the cities have adopted the change. We find that as a rule the larger cities, through an order of their municipal councils, adopt daylight saving for themselves, but the smaller towns and villages all go by standard time. The result is that there is no uniformity in the clock, of this country, and this causes a great deal of confusion, and even some cases of unhappiness. I submit that if we must have daylight saving time-and I for one do not approve of it-the change should be adopted throughout the whole country, as it would be better to have a uniform time than the present bungle.
The railways, as members of the House all know, are still running on standard time, but in order to meet the convenience of their terminals, which are, of course, always in the cities, they advance their schedules one hour commencing with the first of May, so that on and after the first of May if you are going to leave Ottawa or any other city by a train scheduled to leave the station at three o'clock railroad time, that train leaves at four o'clock city time. If you leave Ottawa at four o'clock and travel to a station an hour's distance away, you will find that according to the local time there it is still four o'clock, whereas by Ottawa time it is five o'clock. This discrepancy creates a great deal of confusion in the minds of the people. As indicating the feeling of people throughout the Dominion on this matter, since giving notice of this resolution I have received a great many letters from all parts of the country commending me for bringing the motion
forward and expressing the hope that legislation will be introduced during the present session to prohibit any municipality from advancing its clocks at will. I do not wish to weary the House by reading all these letters but it may be worth while to quote from a few of them. I will commence by reading an excerpt from a letter from the county of Chateauguay:
It is a matter for congratulation to have at least one member of Parliament who is brave enough to rise in his seat and make a stand in favour of the general public. The so-called "Daylight Saving'' fad is class legislation of the worst kind, as its chief beneficiaries are the class who already have leisure enough. It is certainly not a measure calculated to be the greatest good to the greatest number, and is without doubt a detriment to agriculture. We wish you success for the manly stand which you have taken and trust that you will keep on with the good work.
Here is a communication from Ontario:
All success to you with your Bill to prohibit forever and ever the so-called daylight saving which is nothing else than a death knell to all people and especially children. Is there one who can come forth and show where anything was gained by such outrageous Acts? Who first put the clock back? Was it not Germany? Why should any civilized people follow their method? Since reading in Thursday's paper I have spoken to a great many, and have heard the greatest praise for the noble stand you are about to take. I will venture to say if a vote was taken nine out of ten would vote against any such measure; and the voice of the people is what all governments should seek on all important questions. I hope no dissenting voice will be heard when you bring in your notice.
Here is another, from New Westminster:
We, Local 134 of Amalgamated Associates of Street and Electric Railway Employees of America, endorse your stand on Daylight Saving. Passed at our regular meeting.
I have a letter from the city of Toronto which reads:
Notice in Mail and Empire of 23rd you are going to bring in a bill to prohibit daylight saving in the Dominion, and I, and thousands of others, earnestly pray that you will succeed in carrying it, as daylight saving is the worst fraud that ever was imposed on white people. We have a member here called T. Church. His hobby is daylight saving. He has tried to run this city-


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Oh, oh.


William Frederic Kay: -and will try and run the House in Ottawa, so please tell him where he belongs.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Name.


William Frederic Kay: Get every farmer member to work and vote against that cursed daylight saving, for if it carries we might as well leave the country. So
Daylight Saving

please fight, it to the last ditch, and you will confer a favour on thousands of the sensible, thinking people of this Dominion.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Name?


Thomas Langton Church: I would ask my hon.
friend, who is the writer of that letter? I think my hon. friend should lay the communication on the table.


Some hon. MEMBERS:: Oh, oh.


William Frederic Kay: From another letter I take
the following:
I learn that you are good enough to interest yourself in what has become, and proven to be, a great hardship and annoyance to the working classes in Canada. May I ask that you make a special effort this session of Parliament to have daylight saving prohibited in every city and town in the Dominion. ... It is a fight of the weak against the strong with money influence only. As a mother of five growing children, labouring from si* o'clock a.m. sun time every day in the year, you will appreciate how a thing like this wrecks one's nerves, especially women and children, not speaking of the hardship worked on the many who go to their daily occupation at a very early hour. The movement is purely a pleasure one to benefit those with time and money. It inconveniences no one by the abolishing of it. And why should the poor and less fortunate classes of this country be bumped around to 'please a certain set?
Here is a quotation from another letter:
Your proposed prohibition of daylight saving is the first actual attempt that I have seen to stop the growth of the idea that the farmers are a class of ignorant peasants whose interests do not deserve any consideration when they conflict with those of the superior beings who dwell in the cities.
Another letter contains the following:
As a reader of the Parliamentary news I wish to state that I am delighted to see that you are taking steps to prevent the further imposition upon this country of what is known as "daylight saving." Your action, if successful, will prevent further interference with "Standard Sun Time," and from what I personally know of conditions, I feel sure that you should receive the support of every member, whether Liberal or Progressive or Conservative. Personally, I feel that any member failing to support you would surely be untrue to his constituents. The farmers are the backbone of our country, and it is the time requirements of the farmers which should therefore be considered first, last and always.


Sir HENRY DRAYTON:: I rise to a
point of order. In the first place, I desire to ask a ruling upon the question whether or not the hon. gentleman is in order in reading anonymous communications, particularly communications reflecting upon members of the House. It has been held, I think, upon more than one occasion that this is entirely out of order, and should be deleted from Hansard, and, on previous

occasions such letters have been deleted from Hansard. I also desire to raise a question as to the competency of the House to deal with this matter. If we cannot deal with the question properly and authoritatively, we ought not to waste our time.
I desire a ruling as to whether this matter is within the competency of the Dominion Parliament.


Mr. PARENT:: No point or order-it
is a speech.


Henry Lumley Drayton: What is
asked is that the municipalities should be prevented from changing the time. I would like to know whether we have anything to do with that, and whether that is not a question of. provincial authority?


Hewitt Bostock: 
Henry Lumley Drayton: I take it, Mr. Speaker, that the signatures of these letters must be given.


Hewitt Bostock: The custom is, when
a letter is read to the House, that the signature must be given.

Daylight Saving


William Frederic Kay: I was going to deal with
the question of the golfing enthusiasts in a short time. I quite understand that the member from West York, (Sir Henry Drayton) being a very enthusiastic golfer, would strenously oppose any curtailment of daylight saving in this country. That, Sir, gives some support to the articles I was going to produce with reference to daylight saving, and those who are chiefly in favour of it. As far as I can find out, those people who have a good deal of leisure, those people who are so fortunate as to be able to come down to their offices at nine or ten o'clock in the morning and to leave at four or five o'clock in the afternoon are the people who are most strongly in favour of daylight saving, and in that class I place my hon. friend from West York. It is a curious thing that those people in this country who have the greatest amount of. pleasure are the people who are most keenly in favour of daylight saving. On the other hand, I find in the cities as well as in the country that people who rise early in the morning and get down to work at seven o'clock are almost unanimously opposed to daylight saving. After all, Sir, it is the toilers who work the longest hours who should be considered in a question of this kind. I do not know, Sir, whether your ruling is that I should not read any more letters, but I have three or four letters here, and, as my hon. friend from West York is not in his seat, perhaps I may continue reading one or two. My next letter reads:
I was very much pleased to read in this morning's paper of your intention to bring in a resolution to prohibit this daylight saving fad in any part of the Dominion. I have always thought that is the proper place to deal with it and put an end to a hardship for the many who are affected by it. The confusion of time throughout the Dominion caused by this fad is to say the very least a nuisance and in many cases an actual loss to commercial and other men.
Years have been spent in a successful effort to work out a standard time for the Dominion which is most satisfactory and no local faddists should be allowed to interfere with it.

I hope your resolution will become law and be applicable to 1922.
Then another letter reads as follows:
You are on the right track, and X hope you sucoeed in obtaining legislation that will abolish fast time for all time. Looking back to a period before standard time came into existence, and having in mind the chaos that existed in time regulations, I would opine that the majority of present-day citizens have little idea of how or why standard time was adopted.
The daily routine of ordinary life could be carried on in any community under any
standard time, but when business interests became interlocked over the country, a set time for all became an important item. This was a matter that affected railways more than any any other line of business. Railways were the first to seek a remedy. Standard time was the outcome of conferences in Canada and the United States, In 1883, an International Conference of railwaymen of the United States and Canada, was held at Washington, D.C., October, 1883, and adopted standard time to take effect at noon on November 18, 1883. The general public fell in line with the railways and standard time was almost universally used throughout the United States and Canada. Many of the 'States passed laws for its adoption. It does not seem we have a Canadian statute making standard time a legal time for the whole Dominion, 'which is desirable.
I agree with the last remark that a standard time for the whole country is most desirable. I am told that, in the city and also in the country, daylight saving time is very injurious to the health of children, for the reason that children cannot be made to go to bed by daylight saving time. They wish to stay up until the usual hour, as they know it under standard time, arrives. Mothers of large families find it very difficult, under daylight saving time, to get their children off to school and to ensure that they receive the required amount of rest, and this, Sir, in my opinion, would alone be a sufficient reason for the prohibition of daylight saving in this country. The future of Canada rests with our children the rising generation; and if they are deprived of sufficient rest, they will become unhealthy, nervous and unfitted to carry on their work as the future workers of this country. If this Parliament has not power to prohibit daylight saving time or to enforce standard time throughout the country, I would strongly recommend that the British North America Act be amended to give this Parliament that power.
As I said in my opening remarks, it would be even better than the state of confusion through which we passed during the previous summer, to have one standard time; and if the majority of the people desire to have daylight saving time, I would regretfully acquiesce in its being passed, so" long as that time is legal throughout the length and breadth of the land. I am sure I need not tell hon. members that the farmers of this country cannot successfully carry on their farm work under daylight saving time. One often hears golfers and other city men, who are so much in favour of daylight saving, say: "Why cannot the farmers go on the old time? They

Daylight Saving

are not obliged to go on daylight saving time on their farms." But many farmers, who ship their produce to the cities, are obliged to rise in order to catch the early morning train into the city, and as the railroads advance their time one hour, the farmers are compelled to rise that hour earlier. It is not a fad with the farmers to object to daylight saving; they do not object to the city men getting an extra hour for their golf; but during the harvest season, it is absolutely impossible for the farmer, if he is operating on the early time, to get his crops in, because the sun does not rise on the crops any earlier on account of our putting our clocks forward one hour. The sun goes on the same old time and the crops are cured by the sun, so that if we are working on daylight saving time, we lose an hour of the best time of the day. Another argument that I have heard is: "Oh, well, the farmer works from daylight to dark anyway, so what difference does it make to him what time it is by the clock?" My experience, as a farmer, is that nowadays men do not work from daylight to dark; they stop work at the same time as other workers do, and I would not feel that I was doing my duty if I asked my men to work eighteen to twenty hours a day, because the farmer is entitled to the same hours of work as any other labourer in this country.
I hope this resolution will receive the support of many hon. members. I am not so optimistic, as some people who have written me are, who expect that ninety per cent of the membership of this House will support the resolution. But I feel that this is a very serious question, a big question for the country; and, notwithstanding the opinion of the ex-Minister of Finance (Sir Henry Drayton) who thinks we are wasting our time in this House by discussing it, I for one, feel that it is a question which deserves the serious consideration of this House at this time.


Thomas Langton Church: I had not intended taking part in this debate, but since the hon. member has deemed it fit to read an anonymous letter from a newspaper, I think it my duty to say a word or two on the subject. I was surprised that the hon. gentleman should read such a letter, because it is contrary to the rules of the House; and I shall ask you, Mr. Speaker, before I conclude to give a ruling on the question. This letter appeared in an evening newspaper of Toronto, 
a newspaper that for two years advocated daylight saving, not only from the health and economic standpoints, but for many other reasons. Now, I did not introduce daylight saving in the city of Toronto. The railways started it one year and the city followed. The people voted on the measure and it carried by a majority of ten to one. We had petitions from all classes; from the working people in the city over which I had the honour to preside, from the health officers, from the soldiers' organizations, and from others; and it was during the war that the principle was introduced. The military authorities, the [DOT]board of trade of the city, the patriotic societies, the railways, and many other public bodies were unanimous in the request that the mayors of the municipalities should, by proclamation, introduce daylight saving in their various localities. There was no federal or provincial law on the subject, nor were there any municipal regulations. The municipalities adopted the scheme simply through proclamation by their mayors. I shall not go into the history of daylight saving, which had its inception in Germany in 1914, about the time the war broke out. At that time Great Britain also adopted it, the House of Commons and the House of Lords unanimously favouring the principle. France, Holland, and twelve other European countries followed suit, and today daylight saving is observed in the Mother Country and on the Continent. Great Britain a short time ago passed a measure making for uniformity with France and other countries. The principle was thoroughly investigated by a committee of both Houses of Parliament in the Mother Country, a copy of whose report I have here. This committee made a study of the practical working of daylight saving in England, Germany, France, Holland, and other countries which had adopted it of necessity, because of considerations of health and economy, and they unreservedly recommended it for Great Britain as well. The difficulty in connection with the practice of daylight saving in Canada is not due to any inherent defect in the system itself, for all the large cities in Canada adopted the principle by large majorities; and I know that it has proved a success in the city over which it was my privilege .and honour to preside. The first year it was introduced I did not receive a single complaint from any public body or any private individual; and, as I have said, the letter which the hon. member read was published in a newspaper that for two years favoured daylight saving in Toronto, but, evidently

Daylight Saving
currying favour with a certain section of the labour organizations-the socialistic section-afterwards changed its attitude. There were four anonymous letters published in that newspaper, written in the newspaper office, one of them being the anonymous communication which the hon. member has read. The second year the plan worked just as satisfactorily as before, and we asked the people to vote upon it, the result being that they endorsed it by a huge majority.
Now, Mr. Speaker, the difficulty of enforcing daylight saving in this country is due to the lack of co-ordination between the various parts of the Dominion and to lack of nation-wide enactment. As I say, the principle itself is perfectly sound, and in practice has proved a success in Europe and the United States, as well as the other countries I have named. It was investigated by the United States Senate, the Interstate Commerce Commission, the Chamber of Commerce at Washington,- which has a membership of between forty and fifty thousand business men-and by Various boards of trade throughout the country. These bodies were all agreed that from the standpoint of health, from the standpoint of economy, in the saving of light and power, and because of the benefit that accrues to the children of the country, to the farmers, to the business community, daylight saving is not only desirable but necessary. In the absence of federal or provincial law on the subject in this country, many municipalities adopted daylight saving, largely for health reasons and because of the recreation it afforded the labouring population, as well as for the reasons I have stated; and in Montreal, also in my own city, and in other places in Canada, the children have benefited to a very great extent by the lengthening of the day. In 1917, Sir George Foster introduced a nation-wide bill which, I understand, did not pass. It is a pity that that measure was not adopted, because it sought to make the application of daylight saving nation-wide. If it had carried, I believe that even the farmers would not have the objection which they seem to have to daylight saving in some parts of the country. Technically speaking, the railways have no daylight saving, but in practice they have, because in summer they advance
4 p.m. their timetable an hour in Montreal, Toronto, Hamilton, London and other places, so that the smaller centres have to fall in line. If the United States
have daylight saving our time should synchronise with theirs.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I was surprised to hear a supporter of a Liberal administration speaking in favour of prohibition in this regard. We had a declaration the other day from the Prime Minister (Mr. Mackenzie King) in which he said that he was opposed to prohibition in this country. And I agree with him. After all is said and done, there are too many prohibitory laws and interferences with the liberty of the subject to-day; if we keep on in this course, pretty soon men will have no liberty whatever. A man should be able to do what he pleases so long as he interferes with nobody's rights and interests. I contend that this Parliament has no power under the British North America Act to pass the legislation which this resolution recommends. At any rate, if it is passed, I trust it will be treated as a mere "scrap of paper," because there can be no law to prohibit me from advancing my watch ten minutes or ten hours if I choose to do so. Soon we shall have laws prohibiting a man from going to church or going to work. I really cannot see any reason why this resolution has been introduced. Ottawa, Montreal, Toronto and other cities have had daylight saving, and I have read in the last few days that the municipal associations in the country are in favour of the system.
Daylight saving has been a great success wherever it has been observed, and if we made it nation-wide in Canada I have no doubt that its benefits would be appreciated. Any defect in its operation is due to the lack of a nation-wide enactment co-ordination between the various parts of the country and the United States. The Minister of Finance (Mr. Fielding) the other day, in answer to a question I asked, said that it was not the intention of the Government to adopt a measure of national daylight saving, but he said that where a municipality had adopted daylight saving, the local government offices, such as the customs house, the post office, etc., would conform. The government of Ontario have adopted this policy and all provincial government offices are under daylight saving where a municipality so endorses a daylight saving measure.
Now, Sir, I am going to ask for a ruling as to whether an anonymous letter can be read and incorporated in the records of the House. I feel this to be contrary to rule. Latterly the railway companies have been communicating with the municipalities, ask-
Daylight Saving

ing them, if possible, to have their daylight saving run concurrently with the summertime schedules of the railways. In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I would ask for a ruling on that point of order before the debate closes.


Hewitt Bostock: I have already ruled that the letter in question might be read during this debate, because I find in it nothing reflecting upon the character of any hon. member. If there were anything in it of that nature, I certainly would not permit the reading of it. Bourinot says that while a member should not during the course of a debate abuse the privilege of reading letters and documents, he may, subject to certain limitations, read extracts from documents, books or other printed publications as part of his speech, provided that in so doing he does not infringe any points of order. I do not see any point of order in the present instance, because the letter in question bears directly on the subject which is now being debated, a subject which is a matter of public interest, affecting the whole of the Dominion. On the whole, and without prejudice, I think the hon. member for Missisquoi (Mr. Kay) has presented a fair case, without in any way reflecting upon the character of any hon. member. If anything in that letter did reflect upon the character of a member of the House, I would have it expunged from Hansard.


Right Hon. ARTHUR MEIGHEN (Leader of the Opposition) :: I do not rise to question at all the propriety of your ruling, Mr. Speaker, that this motion is not out of order in the sense of contravening any of the rules of this House, because, in the first place, your Honour's ruling has been given, and, in the next place, I think the ruling is right. I am of opinion myself that a resolution proposing to do even what is beyond the competence of Parliament is, nevertheless, not for that reason a resolution that is without the rules of Parliament. This House might resolve to do something which was purely within the powers of the provincial legislature, or might express opinion by resolution thereon. Certainly, the provincial legislatures have adopted the practice of resolving on many things that are wholly within the competence of this Parliament-such as reciprocity in trade, reduction of railway rates, and the like- and it would follow from that, if from no other reason, that we would have corresponding rights here.

But what I do rise to say is this-this resolution and the debate upon it are necessarily and manifestly futile. There can be no question, to my mind, that this Parliament has no right to restrain any municipality or public body that desires, if it chooses, to adopt within its limits daylight saving. I do not think any member of this House would say that we had any colour of right to act in that respect. We have certain rights, as you, Mr. Speaker, have defined, in relation to the daylight saving question. We could, for example, establish daylight saving within those institutions under the control of this Parliament. Possibly we have still further rights than that; I do not need to discuss that question-we have that right, anyway. But to say or suggest that we have any right to pass legislation putting it out of the power of a municipality to adopt daylight saving-* well, is to suggest something that does not admit even of argument or of serious consideration. Consequently, where are we going, what are we doing, when we are absorbing time of this Parliament in discussing such a resolution as this? I submit, it is waste, and that we would do ourselves better credit, and would better discharge our duties if the debate, without further discussion, were to close.


Mr. THOMAS VIEN (Lotbiniere) :: Mr. Speaker, I think the right hon. leader of the Opposition (Mr. Meighen) has " changed arms," as we say in military phrase. I remember a hot debate which took place in this Chamber a very few years ago on this same question, and the right hon. gentleman then fought the battle of the measure that we now oppose. A bill was introduced by the then Conservative government under the Right Hon. Sir Robert Borden. It was introduced by Sir George Foster, who exercised himself for over two hours to convince the House that the measure should pass in the interests of the whole country. I remember that quite a few hon. gentlemen who were sitting then behind the Treasury benches, and who are still in the House, sitting behind their hon. friend on the other side, had to be whipped in to vote for the measure, even though it was a government bill. I remember, for instance, if my hon. friend will allow me, the member for Fort William (Mr. Manion) rising and saying: "I am against the measure; I stand for freedom."


Mr. MANION:: May I correct my hon. friend? I am sure he does not wish to misquote me. The only two times-in fact,

Daylight Saving
I think the only time-I ever spoke on this question in the House, I supported daylight saving.


Thomas Vien: Yes; I was just going to say in what way the hon. gentleman did support it. He stated that he was against the introduction of legislation in favour of daylight saving, but that if it were a question of confidence he was not going to put the administration out of office on a measure relating to daylight saving.


Robert James Manion: I think my hon. friend is misquoting me. I may be wrong, but I do not think so. I would like to have him quote me, if he will.


Thomas Vien: I will get Hansard and I will quote my hon. friend's very words, in a few minutes. But the hon. gentleman will not contradict me when I say that he stood up in the House and asked the then leader of the Opposition, Right Hon. Sir Wilfrid Laurier, if it was a question of confidence. Sir Wilfrid Laurier answered that it was not a question of confidence. A few minutes later Sir Robert Borden came into the House and objected to an hon. member sitting behind the Treasury benches inquiring from the leader of the Opposition whether or not the question involved a vote of want of confidence.


Robert James Manion: May I again interrupt my hon. friend? I am sure he will permit me, because I know he does not wish to be under a misapprehension. I remember the incident he speaks of; it was not with regard to daylight saving at all, but with regard to titles. My hon. friend from Quebec East (Mr. Lapointe), I think, remembers that very well. It was with regard to the question of titles that I took that stand, not with regard to daylight saving.


Thomas Vien: I think my hon. friend's
memory does not serve him well. At any rate, I remember that Sir George Foster had a hard time to convince his own friends, and only by a long and laborious exercise could he summon around him sufficient support to have the measure introduced. My right hon. friend who now leads the Opposition was not at that time objecting to the measure. He thought then it was quite within the powers of this Parliament to enact such a measure.


Arthur Meighen: Will the hon. member not permit a question? The measure was a federal measure of daylight saving, within the powers of the federal parliament.
It was no measure endeavouring at all to restrain the rights of municipalities. That is a wholly different question, and the hon. gentleman, as a lawyer, knows it as well as I do.


Thomas Vien: At any rate the questions involved were the same.


Arthur Meighen: Oh, no.


Thomas Vien: The object was similar, and the principle underlying the measure introduced by the late government was the very same. The question was of introducing legislation to compel people to advance their clock one hour in order to save daylight. Now, in the province whence I come, daylight saving is repugnant to public opinion, for several reasons. In the first place, it is hypocritical, because you advance your clock one hour, you know that you do it, you know that your clock lies to you, and yet you go by that clock. In our province hypocrites of any kind are not well liked. Daylight saving is like a number of other measures-prohibition, for instance, of which my hon. friend from Toronto (Mr. Church) spoke a moment ago. Prohibition is repugnant to us because we do not like anything which restricts liberty, and prohibition does restrict liberty. It does not make men any better; it makes them hypocrites, and if I am well informed, it has not increased the number of saints in any province where it has been adopted, not even in that pious Queen city of Canada.
There was also another objection to daylight saving, connected with the patron of the measure, Sir Robert Borden. In the rural ridings of Quebec-and I am the humble representative of one of them-we used to distinguish standard time from daylight saving time by calling them respectively, "l'heure du bon Dieu," and "l'heure de Borden"-the good God's hour and Borden's hour-and we were opposed, of course, to Borden's hour usurping the good God's hour.
The measure was also repugnant to the rural ridings, at least-and I shall limit myself to speaking on their behalf,-because it was anti-liberal. The word "liberal" means freedom, and daylight saving is not a measure that makes for freedom. It is compulsory in its character, and founded on a lie. It rests on a false principle; it is anti-liberal; it is hypocritical in its character.
It is fraught with many other evils, so far as the rural population at large is con-
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cerned. In the rural districts, at all events, you cannot advance the hour of sunrise by advancing your clock, yet your work must be regulated by sunrise and sunset. Even if you advance your clock one hour, the dew will not dry off the fields any earlier, nor until the sun has done its work; and those of us who have to engage city labour very often find that the city labourer likes to follow the hours he has been used to in the cities. He takes advantage of the fact that he has no work to do early in the morning under daylight saving time, and when the clock strikes six at night, when it is only five o'clock standard time, he wants to go home or get an extra hour's pay. In that respect, therefore, the measure is fraught with evil so far as the rural ridings are concerned.
Even in the cities, where daylight saving has been much advocated, it causes a great deal of inconvenience. Take the educational institutions, for instance. They have regular hours for opening and closing. The usual hour for closing is nine o'clock, because at that time it is dark and the children can go to bed and get to sleep immediately, but under daylight saving, if the children retire at nine o'clock, when it is really only eight, it is still full daylight and the children do not sleep. The personnel of the institution is consequently kept awake, but they have to get up in the morning no matter whether they slept on retiring or not. I know as a positive fact that that was a serious objection to the adoption of the measure in some of our cities. I know as a positive fact that our educational institutions object to daylight saving to-day because they contend they cannot compel the children to go to sleep in daylight, and they have a lot of difficulty in keeping them ruly and quiet.
There is the same objection from the mothers. They have to get up in the morr. ing at six, and if you advance the clock they are compelled to get up at five to prepare the meals and get the children ready for school. At night the children want to play in the streets as long as daylight lasts, and the mothers have great difficulty in getting them home and to bed at a proper hour. That also causes a great deal of inconvenience.
What is the reason for wanting this change in the cities? What is the cause of the whole trouble? As my hon. friend the mover of the motion (Mr. Kay) has pointed out it is to allow those who like to enjoy the evening hours to leave off work at an

earlier hour. There is nothing to prevent them doing that now, without daylight saving. Let them get up and go to work an hour earlier, and retire an hour earlier at night. It may be urged in reply, "If everybody would do that well and good, but you cannot compel your neighbour to get to his office at eight if he is used to getting there at nine. I would do it if everybody else would." I say that there is nothing to prevent the civic authorities of any city advancing their work one hour; there is nothing to prevent the banking institutions from advancing their opening hour, if they choose to do so. There is nothing to prevent the public bodies in any city or province from getting together and making an agreement that all the public offices shall open at a certain hour; but they should not compel their neighbour to do what he is not inclined to do or what will inconvenience him to a great extent. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, because daylight saving is badly patronized, because it is hypocritical in its nature, because it is antiliberal in its compulsory character, and because it is attended by many evils and inconveniences for the cities as well as for the rural districts I am opposed to it and am strongly in favour of the motion. As the leader of the Opposition has pointed out, the resolution only seeks to express the opinion of the House; and if the Government finds it appropriate to introduce legislation along the line suggested, surely they will see to it that such legislation is confined to those powers which are within the purview of Parliament. For all these reasons I shall gladly support my hon. friend's motion.


Mr. W. D. EULER (North Waterloo) :: It is not my intention to debate the merits or demerits of daylight saving as a principle, but I find it difficult to appreciate the argument advanced by the hon. member for Lotbiniere (Mr. Vien). He argues in favour of freedom. He says that if the clock is turned forward we are hypocritical -that the clock lies. Does he not know that whether we adopt daylight saving or not the clock lies all the time in most parts of the country? The clock as we have it in this Chamber does not exhibit the time according to the sun. It does so only at certain fixed places; so that that point, it seems to me, is not well taken. My hon. friend speaks in favour of freedom and refers to daylight saving as being a measure for compulsion. There is no law in this country to-day for daylight saving;

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there is no intention to enact such a law. If there is anything compulsory in what is before us to-day it is the motion of the hon. member for Missisquoi (Mr. Kay) who would exercise prohibition, which is compulsion, and who would prohibit municipalities and others from adopting daylight saving if they wish to- a matter of local freedom, I submit. The hon. member for Lotbiniere declares that the province of Quebec is opposed to daylight saving. My hon. friend says that province is opposed to prohibition. That is the privilege of the province of Quebec. If the hon. member for Lotbiniere, after making his argument in favour of freedom, had said that he was opposed to the resolution as it stands on the Order Paper, then I think he would have been quite consistent. My hon. friend says there is nothing to prevent the city folks from getting up and retiring according to daylight if they wish without changing the hands of the clock. That is perfectly true. On the other hand it is just as true if applied to the people in the rural sections, because they can do exactly the same thing. I am not making an argument for or against daylight saving but I do contend, and in this I agree entirely with the leader of the Opposition, that this Parliament should not have the right to dictate to the people of any city, large or small, with regard to this matter. If the people of the city of Toronto, by a vote of nine to one, declare that they desire to observe daylight saving I do not deem it to be within the province of this Parliament to combat that desire. In my own city of Kitchener the people have voted upon this question and have declared in favour of daylight saving. I know that many of the farmers in the country districts in my riding are opposed to daylight saving; and I think their position would be quite well taken if they resisted compulsion on the part of this Parliament to the enactment of daylight saving. But there is no compulsion on them to observe daylight saving. If they desire to leave their clocks as they are that is quite within their right, and I for one am prepared to defend that right at any time. On the other hand, I think it is just as logical to say that if the great majority of the people of a town or city desire to put their clocks forward at a certain specified time upon the proclamation of the mayor it should remain their right to do so. I do not desire to be misunderstood. I am not arguing the relative merits or demerits of the principle but my point
is this entirely-that we should not interfere with a city or of a town if it locally desires to turn the clock forward one hour in the spring and to turn it back one hour in the fall. There is no compulsion in favour of daylight saving now; there should be no compulsion against it. For that reason I am opposed to the resolution.


Lewis Herbert Martell: I submit that unless there is uniformity in a matter of this kind it will tend to create a great deal of confusion. As an illustration of that, we have only to look at what the effect of the law relating to banks and banking would be under daylight saving. We find that the banks are compelled to remain open at certain hours of the day for the transaction of business. Now, let us suppose that in a certain municipality the clocks are put one hour ahead, whereas the farming population allow their clocks to remain at standard time. A farmer drives to town, having business to do with a bank probably in the way of meeting a note or something of that kind and, as he thinks, gives himself sufficient time to do so. But when he arrives at his destination he finds that the bank has closed for the day because the town is running on daylight saving time and doubtless the note he intended to take up has been protested owing to non-payment. I submit it is not in the best interests of Canada to have the towns, or urban centres, adopting daylight saving when it is not carried out in the country districts.
The leader of the Opposition has made a statement with respect to the relative * rights of the provinces and of the Dominion as regards the enactment of such a law. The right hon. gentleman is a lawyer of great standing in the country, and has been instrumental in placing many laws upon the statute books. I submit, however, with all due deference to the excellent legal acumen and ability of the leader of the Opposition, that it is a debatable point whether the provincial legislatures or the federal Parliament have the right to enact such legislation as a daylight saving act. In the legislature of Nova Scotia I remember it was a debatable question; and some two years ago, if I am not mistaken, a bill was enacted providing for the exercise by the Lieutenant Governor of such power as he might have, or which could be given to him by the legislature, to put such an act into force. Now, I maintain that this is a debatable question and was so held by the Nova Scotia legis-
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lature; and when the leader of the Opposition tells us we are only wasting time by debating a question of the kind, that is only his individual opinion. We have had ad-dreses from one or two men who are probably equal to the leader of the Opposition in legal ability and they do not regard it as a waste of time to discuss such an important matter. The question is an important one, let us not get away from it. It is a matter which affects the people- those who live on the farms of the country and those who labour, in our industries. The only good thing that I can say of daylight saving is that it makes the farmer and the labouring man rise an hour earlier in the morning in order to enable the city people to put on their golf and tennis clothes and go out and enjoy the summer evenings. I submit that in the interests of the producers of the country it is fit and proper that we should debate a resolution such as this in order to get the opinion of Parliament; and I hope that opinion will be that the tillers of the soil, the men who bear the burden and the heat of the day shall have laws enacted in this country which will be for their welfare and not simply in the interest of an oligarchy.


Hon. CHARLES MARCIL (Bona-venture) :: I wish to state on behalf of my constituents that they are unanimously against daylight saving. I have discussed the matter with them on various occasions, and they have refused to agree to the daylight saving proposition. The whole of the province of Quebec, the rural parts especially, and some of the towns, refuse to advance the clock, and it remains at standard time. This remark applies to municipal institutions, and so on. Of course, this action resulted in confusion generally throughout the province. The rural parts of Quebec are a unit against daylight saving. I had the honour to be one of the administrators of the city of Montreal, and, at the request of the commuters, who leave the city and go out to the country in the summer time, and the railways, we agreed to it, but the experience is not satisfactory. Later we received protests from all parts of the city. I know that in my own household I was very much blamed for having granted the request. I think that, under the circumstances, an expression of opinion from this Parliament would go a long way to 'bring back normal conditions, and if a vote is taken, after the experience I have had, I will vote in it vour of the resolution.


Mr. O. R. GOULD (Assiniboia) :: I wish to associate myself with the mover of the resolution and with hon. gentlemen who have supported the proposal which it embodies. I recollect quite well the actual experience when the former bill, which gives rise to this resolution, was introduced, and daylight saving was forced upon the people of Canada. Evidently the debate which took place in this chamber was very, very exhaustive, and many arguments had to be presented before Parliament would allow the resolution to pass. It seems to me that, when hon. members attempt to compare our conditions here in Canada with conditions in France, Great Britain and the older countries of Europe, the comparison is unfair. When daylight saving was introduced in the West and forced upon us, we, as agriculturists, living in sparsely settled districts, met with many difficulties. It worked to our injury as a class in the western country. I am not speaking simply for dwellers in rural districts, but for those in small villages and towns. Later on, it must have been recognized that evils did arise from that legislation, for a form of local option was adopted which permitted municipalities to exercise their choice in this matter. While local option did cure many of the evils existent at the time when the law was federal in its application, many of these evils still obtain in the country. Some of these have been cited in this debate. Others will occur to hon. gentlemen. A few of them were related by one of the members from Nova Scotia, and they obtain la'll over Canada. It seems to me this is largely a question between city dwellers and rural dwellers, because I have noticed that many of the urban dwellers can see nothing whatever except the idea of daylight saving, and endeavour to force their will upon the rest of Canada. It may benefit the people who claim the privilege of donning their golf clothes late or early in the afternoon; but it is a fact that we who dwell close to towns that in the exercise of their local option have adopted daylight saving, suffer inconvenience, in that often we find business places closed up when we get into the town, at an hour which is early according to standard time. It is no use for gentlemen to argue that it does not affect us, for it does affect us, and injuriously, too. It seems to me that if daylight saving were as beneficial as it is claimed to be, the business people Who now favour it would have initiated it years ago. But, in fact, they had to wait until some individual in

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this House explained to them the benefits that would accrue to them by adopting the daylight saving plan. I do not know whether that Scotch poet, Harry Lauder, had daylight saving in mind when he said, "Oh, how I hate to get up in the morning."


An hon. MEMBER:: Don't call him a poet.


Oliver Robert Gould: It is certain he could not have had the "benefit" of daylight saving in his mind. Whether he spoke as a labourer or moneyed man or rural dweller, certainly the thought occurred to him; and I wish to associate myself with him, and, as one who has had to get up very early in the morning, object to any law to compel me to get up any earlier.
I wish to associate again myself with the sentiment expressed that we do not want any more laws which gives privileges to certain districts, but we want general universal laws. I think the sun rises plenty early enough for us. It was the idea of the Creator when the sun rose at a certain time that we should abide by that and conform to it. When we do that we will find that we have time for a full day's work and no more. I believe the sentiments expressed by those supporting the resolution are the sentiments of those people of Canada as a whole, and I am quite sure the people who have sent our little group down here would stand unanimously by the sentiments expressed in the resolution.


Mr. W. F. MACLEAN (South York) :: With regard to the point of order raised by one hon. member, I did not understand that the speaker ruled that a name had not been given when asked for. I believe the practice in the past has been-and I hope to see it preserved-that the name should be given when so requested. I do not believe there has been any change in practice. If a letter is read and an hon. member asks the name of the writer, I believe he is entitled to get it, and I do not understand the ruling this afternoon destroys that right.


Hon. MEMBERS:: Louder, Louder.


William Findlay Maclean: I say that if a member asks for the name of the writer of a letter he is entitled to get it. The impression might have been left in the House this afternoon-although the Speaker's ruling would not justify any such impression- that we are not entitled to have the name, but I hope the right to have the name will be preserved.
In regard to daylight saving, I have not very much to say one way or the other, but I think we ought to have standard time in this country. A more important question is the one which has been raised in this debate: has parliament jurisdiction in regard to that question? The question in regard to measurement of time has been raised in a good many parliaments in Europe, as to the acceptance of the Julian Calendar. I do not know whether we would have the power to deal with the question, but the question is coming up in this House. I understand the feeling in Europe is in favour of its reform, and Cardinal Mercier had charge of the proceedings. These questions of time, while they have not been defined, perhaps, by the British North America Act, will have to be dealt with, and the reform of the calendar will have to be considered. We will have to do what they have been doing in the States, and in other countries, in the way of getting a standard time. We must have standard time in this country if for no other reason than that our railways are a national proposition; they are certainly within the jurisdiction of this Parliament, and it would, therefore, be a mistake if we had several kinds of time in this Dominion. Accordingly, we must have some standard time, and some legislature in this country must have charge of it. I believe this matter is well within the jurisdiction of this Parliament, and it is not wise to have local authorities changing the clock, because it is in the general public interest that our time be standardized. While I think there is good reason for the adoption of daylight saving, I am rather surprised that the farmers in this House have not expressed their views on the subject. I thought the main reason given for its adoption was that it was in the interest of the farmers; and if that is not the case, I think the House is entitled to have the information. Perhaps, the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Motherwell) would be prepared to express the opinion of farmers in regard to the matter. What I wish to say mainly now is that some legislature in this country ought to have charge of the time; that the law should be uniform, and that the time throughout the country should be standardized.


Mr. R. J. WOODS (Dufferin) :: Mr. Speaker, in my opinion, the resolution under discussion at the present time is entirely unnecessary. For this reason:	I
am in touch a good deal with conditions in
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rural districts and smaller centres such as villages and small towns, and so far as I can understand, public sentiment is at present so strong against daylight saving that there is not much danger of our small urban centres adopting it. They have found it detrimental to the best interests of business affairs in those small centres. Therefore, I have no doubt that what we have known in the past as daylight saving, which has been adopted in many urban centres, will very soon fall of its own weight, and we shall not hear very much more about it.	.


Robert King Anderson: Mr. Speaker, it does not appear to me that the question of the merits or demerits of daylight saving is under discussion. That was discussed in this House a few years ago; and we know that the rural sections of the Dominion are not in favour of it, and that some of the larger cities are in favour of it. The hon. member for Dufferin (Mr. Woods) has just said that there is not much danger of rural municipalities and smaller towns adopting daylight saving, and I think the Government will be entirely unwise in passing any legislation prohibiting any municipality from putting daylight saving into force. I was surprised at an hon. member from the province of Quebec speaking in favour of prohibition. The people of Quebec are not in favour of prohibition. This is a prohibitory measure and we already have enough of prohibition in this country. We want no more of it in other lines, and it would be very unwise on the part of the Government to put on the statute books of this Dominion a prohibitory law with regard to something that is not in existence or in force at the present time. I am therefore opposed to the resolution.


Mr. D. W. WARNER (Strathcona):: Mr. Speaker, we are discussing something that I deem much more important than some other things that we have been spending time on. I live in a district where we can read a newspaper at half past ten o'clock in the evening without any artificial light, so why should we want to save daylight? I am a farmer, and I know conditions that exist on the farm are such that daylight saving would not be of any advantage. We are supposed to be an agricultural nation; at the present time more than half of our population is on the land, and I should like to see more there instead of less. If we are an agricultural nation, I am quite positive that daylight saving is not to the

best interests of Canada. Some things have been said regarding disturbance of work on the farm, and I have heard hon. gentlemen state that the dew will not go off earlier in the morning even if you set your clock ahead. There is no difference with regard to that; but the loss of that hour in the evening makes a difference. When harvest time is on in my district, we are not very often able to go to work with a binder before ten o'clock, and if our men cannot be properly employed in the morning, there is a difference if we have to pay for the extra hour at night. We have a legal time in this country, namely, standard time. While I feel we have no right to say to people: "You should not set your clocks ahead;" I believe we have as good right to say that they can get up an hour earlier in the morning as they have to say that we must disturb our time by setting our clocks ahead. If the banks are closed when one gets to town, there is a difference, -it makes a difference whether the banks close at two or at three o'clock. It does not make the day any better to close the banks at two o'clock instead of at three. We have a legal time for children to go to school; our children are supposed to be in school at nine o'clock in the morning; and if that means eight o'clock instead of nine, we are interfering with what is already legal time as regards school hours.
There is no question that our work on the farm is more or less disturbed by having town time different from farm time. I live close to the city of Edmonton, and if I go into town and find that the stores have closed an hour earlier than they usually do, surely that makes some difference; it disturbs time. In a district where one has to work as long days as they do in that part of the country, we have daylight enough without setting our time ahead. Nature has arranged our time; we have to work with nature more or less on the farm, and if farmers in that district are interfered with, there is an interference with the advantage and benefit of the whole country. We are yet an agricultural country, and I do not think agriculturists anywhere in Canada are asking for the time to be set ahead. People who want to play golf and to have longer time in the afternoon can get up an hour earlier without disturbing us in any way. We do not object to their getting up earlier, but we object to having our time set ahead.


Mr. H. A. STEWART (Leeds):: Mr. . Speaker, this discussion is somewhat pro-

Daylight Saving
longed, but the matter is an important one. I think, however, the wording of the resolution is a little bit unfortunate inasmuch as it tends to develop the debate along two lines. I think that opinion in Canada is against daylight saving, and if the resolution had been confined to that, I am sure there would have been very little opposition to it. But it involves the other feature, of a prohibitory action on the part of this Parliament in a field of doubtful jurisdiction. It does seem strange that we should attempt to prohibit a municipality from adopting daylight saving if in its wisdom it considers it expedient, in its particular circumstances, to do so. I think that the peculiar wording of the resolution has led to this conflict in the debate. If the resolution had been worded somewhat to the effect that in the opinion of this Parliament daylight saving should not be adopted unless it were made universal, then I think we could all agree with it. Great confusion and inconvenience undoubtedly arise because of the adoption of daylight saving in some localities and not in others. Speaking for the constituency I have the honour to represent, which is about half rural and half urban, I am well satisfied that the opinion is strong against daylight saving, and I sincerely hope that it will not be adopted in this Parliament. At the same time, I do not think that Parliament should go so far as to say that it will prohibit any municipality in Canada from taking action along a line which is perhaps well within its jurisdiction.
Mr. JAMES J. HUGHES (King's,P.E.I.) : No matter what some people may do with the hands of the clock, no matter what some municipalities may do, and no matter what resolutions some town councils may pass, the men and women who are engaged in farming and in rural occupations cannot leave off work early in the afternoon. They are compelled to work until late. They would be only too glad to quit early if thereby they could make ends meet under present conditions in Canada. For that class whom often, when we want to flatter them, we describe as the bone and sinew of the country, there is no daylight saving The tendency in Canada to-day is for people to leave the land and flock to the cities, and we believe that that is against the best interests of the country. We all say that, and I suppose we all believe it. One of the tendencies of daylight saving, one of its worst features, is to make young
men and women dissatisfied with farm life and rural conditions, and consequently to lure them from the farms and locate them in the towns and cities. This is one of the effects of daylight saving; it emphasizes the difference in conditions between farm life and city life. I think, therefore, that it was a very unfortunate thing indeed that the daylight saving fad was ever introduced in Canada,-because, after all, it is only a fad. If there are groups in the cities, such as golf or other sporting clubs,-or clubs of any other kind, which are of course, quite legitimate,-that desire to exercise the rights and privileges of citizenship and to arrange among themselves to play golf, say, in the afternoon, there is no reason in the world why they could not select any hour they please for this purpose instead of changing the hands of the clock. They could select four o'clock or five o'clock, or three o'clock, or any other hour that would suit them. But why act this childish part of pretending to ourselves that it is five o'clock in the afternoon when we know that it is not so? Those women of the country who have to do their own work, take care of their own households, prepare breakfast and other meals for their men folk, and after breakfast get their children ready for school, find it very hard indeed to rise at any early hour in the morning. Nevertheless, they are obliged to get up at six o'clock, and in some cases perhaps earlier; and it is an unwarrantable hardship to compel them to get out of bed an hour earlier than their accustomed time, simply in order to conform to a condition of things that is not real.
There is something else to ibe considered, and that is the effect of daylight saving on the convenience of farmers in their relations with the railway service. Throughout the country districts, I believe, the railway stations are closed about four o'clock in the afternoon, and the farmers find this too early, when they have to leave their work to transact any business at the station, either to deliver or take possession of freight. But if they find the stations closed at three o'clock their condition is so much worse. Whatever other people may do, I would ask the railways at least to observe the regular time, and try to manage their business in such a way as to suit the convenience of country people. I know that a great deal of hardship has been experienced by farmers who have driven seven and eight miles to get some special business done at the railway
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station, only to find that the
5 p.m. station was closed five minutes before they arrived. Sometimes it happens that the station master is just closing: the place, and, as an hon. member suggests to me, refuses to do any more business. This is a matter that inconveniences a large number of. people. I repeat, the emphasis that daylight saving lays on the difference between country and city life tends to drain the farms of young men and women. Daylight saving is one of the things that tend to make the young people think that conditions in the cities are so much better than they really are, while it increases the feeling on the part of the rural population that they are supporting an idle and pleasure-loving class in the cities. I agree with the hon. member who immediately preceded me, that this resolution is badly drafted. That is unfortunate, because we can hardly support it in its present form, seeing that it interferes with the rights of others. At the same time, I am in favour of the idea of the resolution, and if it stated that in the opinion of the House daylight saving should not be adopted unless it were made nationwide, then I think it would pass. At any rate, I want to put myself right; I intend to vote for it, even as it is. But I would ask the mover of the resolution to change the wording of it, if he can do so.


Hon. J. B. M. BAXTER (St. John City and Counties of St. John and Albert) :: Mr. Speaker, I hope that whatever form the resolution may take, it will not be adopted by the House in the form in which it has been proposed. It is a direct challenge to, a direct interference with, powers which under the British North America Act are sacred to the local legislatures. It may be that daylight saving has been dealt with by Parliament or the federal government on a previous occasion; if so, it would be only under the extraordinary circumstances of war, which seemed to give some extension of the federal power. Perhaps it did give such extension, and perhaps not. But take the case of my own province: there we have an act which makes the time of New Brunswick the time of the 60th meridian. It has the effect of giving daylight saving, if you will, for an average of about twenty-four minutes throughout the province. Certain municipalities adopt what they call daylight saving. There is no authority of law; they simply adopt it by resolution or by-law, and it binds no one except their own officials, but usually the community
rMr. Hughes.]
conforms to the wish of the local municipality in that respect. Now, the House is asked to adopt this resolution, and what would" the Government do if, in accordance with the resolution, it acted as it naturally would be expected to act? It would introduce a bill to prohibit the legislatures of the respective provinces from varying any form of standard time. That is an impossible thing; the Government could not, I should think, consider for a moment any such legislation. Now, this is not a question of party tactics; it is a question, I think, of the common sense of the House. If every member of the House would like the time to be in accordance with the meridian of the place in which he lives, what is the sense of asking Parliament to pass legislation which it is not competent to pass, forbidding the provincial legislatures to deal with a subject which is entirely within their jurisdiction? That is not the way to get at the problem; it is only a way to make ourselves ridiculous.


Mr. P. F. CASGRAIN (.Charlevoix-Mont-morency) :: Mr. Speaker, I also have received numerous letters similar to those read to the House this afternoon by the hon. member for Missisquoi (Mr. Kay). I have received protests from various parts of the province of Quebec, especially from the district which I represent, the counties of Charlevoix and Montmorency, with regard to daylight saving. Daylight saving as adopted in 1918 was largely a war measure; in the United States, Europe and other countries it was thought necessary to have a measure of this kind in order that the needs of the war could more readily be met. But now that we are in the post war period it would, in my opinion, be a serious mistake to bring in any measure providing for daylight saving. It is true that last year and the previous year some districts, some municipalities, towns and cities, adopted a system of daylight saving. But many unfortunate results have come from its adoption in some of these places. In the city of Quebec the clock was advanced one hour, but in my county, a comparatively short distance away, the time was the standard time. Great troubles and misfortunes have been experienced by different persons on account of these differences in time. I think that, on the whole, the people of this part of the country, particularly in the province of Quebec-and I speak especially of the rural districts, as did the hon. member for Bona-venture (Mr. Marcil) and the hon. member

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for Missisquoi-are against daylight saving. There are many hon. members from rural districts in the province of Quebec who will hear out my contention that any measure which would put daylight saving in force would be against the will and the wish of the people of those districts.
The resolution now before the House is a good one, but, in my opinion, it might have been drafted in better form. As has been suggested by some hon. gentlemen, it would restrict the power of municipalities, towns or cities which would like to enact a measure of daylight saving. It would have been better had the resolution simply stated that in the opinion of the House it would be better not to introduce any further measures of daylight saving. But the resolution is before us, and, although it is not framed in the best possible terms, I submit, for the reasons which I have given as well as those which have been put forward by hon. members who have preceded me, that we should support the resolution in its present form.


Mr. W. F. CARROLL (Cape Breton South and Richmond) :: Mr. Speaker, if
the mover of this resolution (Mr. Kay) is desirous of getting an expression of opinion as to whether daylight saving is a proper thing for this country, I fear that he has couched his resolution in the wrong language. If the resolution simply stated that in the opinion of this House daylight saving was or was not a good thing for this country, one might vote upon it with the idea of expressing either his support of or his opposition to daylight saving. But in the resolution as drawn you are asked to prohibit local areas from giving expression to their desire to have daylight saving. While I am myself against the principle of daylight saving, I shall have to vote against this resolution, because we in this House have no right to prohibit either the provinces or such local areas as incorporated villages or towns from expressing their view, by resolution in council or otherwise, for or against daylight saving.
The hon. member for Lotbiniere (Mr. Vien) said he was in favour of the resolution because he did not like prohibition in any form. Well, if he votes for this resolution he is voting for a prohibition; he is voting to prohibit a city or town or organized district from adopting daylight saving. I think that the hon. member who brought this resolution to the attention of the House would be well advised if he
changed its language in some respects and simply asked for an expression of opinion on the question whether we should legislate either for or against daylight saving. I am not, of course, advising my hon. friend to take that course, but I believe if he did he would get more support than he could otherwise obtain.
Much has been said about putting the clock ahead or putting it back. Some hon. gentlemen have said that they did not desire to be placed in a position where they would have to put the clock ahead to meet the views of their friends. Well, I am one of those who think that the very greatest freedom should be given to all in the matter of what time they get up in the morning. If daylight saving were made effective in this country to-day, it would not change the natural inclination of the person who wants to get up at four o'clock instead of at five, or of the person who wants to get up at six o'clock instead of at seven, or at seven o'clock instead of at six.
I rose merely to say, however, that I entirely agree with the leader of the Opposition (Mr. Meighen) and other hon. members who favoured the idea that he presented to the House, that no expression of opinion either for or against daylight saving can be had by voting for or against the resolution as proposed by the hon. member for Missisquoi.


Hon.   S@: Mr. Speaker, I would have thought we should have wanted to turn this discussion to something of importance, to some practical purpose. Surely it is perfectly plain that Parliament is not going to interfere with the provinces which already have their statutes and their regulations fixing the time in their respective districts, some being in advance of and some behind the meridian. I would have thought it perfectly clear that municipalities, creatures as they are of the provinces, are entirely in the hands of the provinces. It is idle to refer to what was done under the War Measures Act. That may have been right or may have been wrong, but it is obvious that any jurisdiction taken under the War Measures Act is something that is past and gone. We cannot now pass legislation upon this subject unless we seek, without the shadow of a right, to infringe upon the provihcial prerogative. There is one practical way in which the Government, if it desires, can register its views upon daylight saving. The city of Ottawa
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has adopted daylight saving to go into effect on the 30th of April, and the only practical thing that can he done with this resolution by gentlemen who have taken their stand upon the subject is to say that the ordinary rules shall not apply, that the House will pay no attention whatever to the daylight saving regulation passed by the city government. That is one practical thing we could do, hut I apprehend the view that the Government will he, as I think they have already expressed it, that as this is a provincial and a local matter, the provincial and local time shall prevail.


Lewis Herbert Martell: Will the hon. gentleman tell me where he finds his constitutional authority for the statement that this is a matter wholly of provincial jurisdiction?


Henry Lumley Drayton: I would point out to the hon. member that we have been a Confederation now for some time, that we have provincial laws dealing with the subject of standardizing time, but no Dominion law, and if any such law was introduced in conflict with what has been the custom and practice of the provinces, it would undoubtedly be an interference.


Mr. WILLIAM DUFF (Lunenburg) :: It seems to me that we have had a very interesting discussion on this subject this afternoon. We in this House who are laymen can come to only one conclusion, and that is that we are not quite clear whether we should vote for or against this resolution. One thing, however, I think we are satisfied of, and that is that this resolution revolves around the clock. In view of the fact that I am not quite clear about this matter, in view of the fact that many constitutional lawyers and legal men of high standing in this country have said that this resolution has not been properly drawn, and for certain other reasons, before I sit down I intend to move an amendment.
As far as I personally am concerned, and as far as my constituents are concerned, we do not care whether we have daylight saving in Canada or not. Most of my constituents do not go by the clock. They work from daylight until dark, or from before daylight until after dark. We have no six-hour men in my constituency. We have farmers, and labourers and fishermen, who start work before daylight, before they can see the clock, and work until after the sun has set, and they have to light the lamp to see whether it is time to quit.
I do not know very much about farming, but I am told, and I think it is a fact,

that farmers in this country cannot work by daylight saving time. They must get up- very early, at daylight or before, to look after their work on the farm. They cannot make hay by the clock in the summertime; they have to arrange their work to take advantage of the sun. It would be a nice state of affairs in this country if, when four or five o'clock, all the hired men on the farms were to down tools and say, "In the cities the Civil Service officials have all gone to the golf links or for an automobile ride, so we are going to stop forking any more hay into the barn for to-day."
Somebody has said that it would not be fair to interfere with by-laws or regulations passed by city or town councils. That is all well and good, hut my idea of legislation is that it should be based on the principle of the greatest good to the greatest number, and in my humble opinion, when a city or town passes a by-law advancing the clock one hour from the 1st of May to the 1st of September, it is not in the best interests of the great majority of the people in those towns and cities. It may have been done in the past, to allow certain gentlemen to leave off work at three or four in the afternoon and to go to the golf links or for a long motor ride or take some other form of recreation, while we poor people have to slave from daylight to dark, but I say that it is not good legislation.
While we cannot perhaps pass an act to prohibit daylight saving being brought into force in different parts of Canada, as it might interfere with provincial and municipal rights, it seems to be that this House should express the opinion that daylight saving is not in the best interests of the great majority, and I think we should by our votes show to, the people of this country that we are standing for the rights of the common people.
What shall we find when daylight saving is adopted in the city of Ottawa? As we leave our work in this chamber in the afternoon-it would be five by the clock-the city officials would have all left their work, but it is a well-known fact that the flags on the public buildings cannot be hauled down until sunset. Why should the poor man who is getting two dollars a day to raise and lower the flag have to stay till sunset wihen you and I can leave our work at five o'clock and go and enjoy ourselves for the rest of the evening? Even on the farm they tell me that the cows know when it is time to come home to get milked; if

Daylight Saving
you leave them alone they will come in themselves at sunset to be milked.
If we cannot pass a law on this subject, we can at least give a clear expression of opinion. I said at the outset of my remarks that as far as my constituents are concerned we do not care whether daylight saving is in force or not. We do not care very much about the sun, for most of my constituents work by the moon and the stars. Some of them work by bells, getting up at eight bells in the night and working till four bells, and then resting till the bell rings eight times again. We do not require any clock. It is not fair that there should be any distinction in this free country, so that some people can go to work and leave off at a certain time by the clock, while other people have to work from daybreak till dark. I therefore beg to move, seconded by Mr. Turgeon:
That all the words after "that" be struck out and replaced by the following: In the opinion of this House it is not desirable that daylight saving time should be adopted in any part of Canada.


Mr. D. A. LAFORTUNE (Jacques-Car-tier) (Translation) :: Mr. Speaker, this is the first opportunity that I have had to address this House since you were chosen as Speaker. With the consent of the hon. members, I wish to say, Sir, that I was pleased and happy to witness your election to the speakership of this House. I have been your comrade for twenty-five years and more. I have always taken an interest and pride in your career and you have done credit to us wherever you went. You have been in political life for twenty-five years, and unfortunately, I have spent already forty years in the same way. This will convey to you, Mr. Speaker, that I am not without knowledge as to what has transpired in your career as well as in the country at large. I shall restrict myself to these few remarks, as I fear I might be out of order; however, what I have said will prove to you, Sir, that your humble servant was one of those who rejoiced the most at your elevation to the Speaker's chair.
My learned friend who moved this resolution, the hon. member for Missisquoi (Mr. Kay) accused the hon. leader of the Opposition of having altered his views. Well, let us give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he has not changed his opinion on this question. Nevertheless, I must admit he was dangerously near doing so. Another hon. member was less generous towards him, he expressed himself very
well, only he used rather a harsh word, when referring to the leader of the Opposition, he said it was but hypocrisy on his part. It was perhaps going too far. Let us give these gentlemen the benefit of the doubt; let us call it "camouflage". The Toronto members are not hypocrites, bu' they have very odd ideas which makes i'_ rather difficult for us to agree with them.
As an hon. member so well expressed it, we have in the country where I also live two different designations of the hour: the right hon. Sir Robert Borden's time and God's time. There was a great fuss as to which we should adopt. Finally God's time won. People placed more confidence in the latter than in the former, God's time was older and more respectable, we therefore adopted it.
I do not think that amongst all the members of this House but specially the farmer members, there can be found any in favour of this new system. Those who know and understand the economical side of farming cannot possibly uphold this new system, and, I ask myself who is the gentleman that first conceived the idea of altering the time. Let me tell you that he was by no means a genius, and the sooner we abolish it the better. In my own village we were blessed with a good common sense parish priest who rejected this daylight saving system; the mass is held at the usual hour, God's time. It is my humble opinion that the resolution moved by the hon. member for Missisquoi should necessarily be adopted. Most of the hon. members sitting on your left, Mr. Speaker, say this regulation will die a natural death. So much the better; however, there are extremists all over the country, men who are always at variance with others; they hold so-called new ideas-they term this progress-and if we do not check them in their thirst for progress, each session the same question will pop up. Now and then, Mr. Speaker, you will have this question of daylight saving brought up. Why not curb these gentlemen who are always on the look out for proposals which we cannot entertain, that every reasonable being opposes.
It was stated a short while ago that there were men of good common sense in the province of Quebec. That is so, but there are also men of good common sense in the other provinces, indeed a great number of them and we entreat these gentlemen to join and help us. Those who understand the economical side of farming should come forward and support the resolution of the hon. member for Missisquoi. Try, Mr-
9G0
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Speaker, to have your domestics rise earlier than usual. You will find that it is not an easy task. No, Sir, it is impossible to get them to rise earlier than what is a reasonable hour. Who is the loser in all this? The master. We are forced to submit to the whims of these gentlemen, our employees. If you are not satisfied, Sir, they leave. If they find fault with the old system, they go, and leave you in the lurch. The employers now, are no more masters of the situation, we are governed by the employees. We must submit. If you seek to enforce this new time system on the farm hands, you will not succeed, the thing is impossible. In the morning we cannot start them to work before the usual hour, but in the evening the case is different when six o'clock comes-that is five o'clock-they grab their hat, the pick and shovel drop, everybody stops working, goodbye, it is six o'clock, let us go. In this last instance they do not require to be coaxed. What happens then? Those who understand farming know that the farmer's day does not end with the field work. He goes to supper, takes a little rest while smoking his pipe, but he has to visit the outer buildings, take a look in the stables, in the cattle house, in the pig-sty and in the henhouse; he has to see to everything, look to the doors being closed, the beds made, the cattle properly watered, find out if an animal has not strayed away, finally he has to oversee everything that has to be done. Then if you allow your men to go out too early after supper they dress up, stroll away to the village, and as you are aware in most of the villages there are now moving pictures. The men depart saying: Do not worry, boss, we shall not be long away. That is what they say, but they act differently; they come in late. Do you suppose the work is carried out? No. If the farmer does not go to the trouble to see for himself what is being done, the work 'is neglected and the men have played you the nice trick of leaving undone what formerly they were in the habit of doing. It is therefore impossible to uphold tsuch a system. Otherwise, close your doors, sell your farms and give up farming, if you do not wish to bring ruin upon yourself. It was clearly established that in the early morning you cannot work in the fields, you must allow the dew to evaporate. No one will contest this fact, the ground is not in a fit condition. You must wait until about nine or nine-thirty and sometimes ten o'clock before starting work in the fields. Well, [Mr. Lafortune.l
what are your men doing all this time? Nothing, absolutely nothing. Amongst all the western members, who are practical and business men, there is not one, I am sure, who wants this change in time, for if it were otherwise they would only show proof that they do not understand farming. I have now been farming for the last forty years and have always had farm-hands on my land which comprises an area of about 200 acres. I therefore know what is going on. I have a very good knowledge of the economical wtay of rearing all kinds of cattle which are to be found on a farm, and I say that to make some success, it is neces* sary to rise early and retire late.
Mr. Speaker, I do not wish to say unpleasant things to any one, it is not my practice. I am getting too old to pick up new habits, specially when they are not good ones. I asked myself who is the gentleman that invented this new daylight saving system. I do not contend that the idea originated amongst lazy people, but it must have originated amongst those who shun work and wish to be free to seek pleasure after five o'clock-old time. These pleasures conflict with the interests of the farmer as well as those of the employee himself. Why do we meet with so much evil? Why do we witness so many crimes? Why do we see immorality invade specially the large centres? It is because youth is allowed too much time to joy ride. Youth takes advantage of these conditions and craves for pleasure. It does so against its best interests, to the detriment of its health, transgressing the laws of sobriety and heaping upon itself all kinds of misfortunes. Formerly, we watched over the employees. We were able to follow a little their movements and gave them goc.d advice. To-day artisans in cities drop work at six o'clock in the evening. Then after having taken supper they leave, between seven and -seven-thirty, to enjoy themselves at the movies, at the theatres, or in doubtful company. At present you are unable to guide or control any one, yet we know what is taking place. Crime in large centres is on the increase from year to year, and where lies the blame? It is mostly due to too much liberty we allow the workmen, and', it seems to me that instead of seeking all kinds of methods to protect these gentlemen, we should as much as possible hold them in check. We are -asked why trouble abou-t this legislation-? We should not enforce it, it will be a dead letter. True, but it would not be so if everybody wesre reasonable, if every one would help; unfor-

Daylight Saving
tunately there _are extremists not only in this House hut everywhere, even in municipal councils. In the latter men are to be found who specialize' and seek by all means possible to create obstacles. It is therefore to prevent these evils that it is necessary that the resolution of the hon. member for Missisquoi (Mr. Kay) should be adopted.
Mr. Speaker, in the country we cannot have any fixed hour which would be convenient to the farmers. When the weather is threatening, do we cease work at six or seven o'clock? We work up to eight or nine o'clock if it is necessary. Rain is threatening, the haycocks are ready to be drawn. If the farm hand refused to carry out his work before the danger had disappeared or the hay had been drawn to the barns, he would simply be dismissed. Let him rest during the morning or through the day, if necessary; but when the danger is near, the rain 'is coming, at any cost, the crop which is ready must be brought to the barn.
The same thing applies to the cold weather. When we are threatened with frost and the tobacco is in the field in right condition for curing, do we stop work at six, seven or eight o'clock? No, we would work up to midnight if need be; we draw as long as it is necessary to protect tbs crop that lies in the field. You therefore, see, Mr. Speaker, under what conditions the farmer labours. The idea of fixing a set hour for farm work should not be entertained.
Those who work in large cities, in trades for instance, are perhaps exceptions. There is no rule without exceptions. Those who are employed and are at liberty to leave work early may be considered lucky; but they are in the minority, and all laws in a community should aim to protect the majority. The latter consists of the farming class in this country. It seems to me, Mr. Speaker, that it is not necessary to add anything further so as to persuade the hon. western members, and those of all the, different provinces who are connected in some way with the farming class, but I specially appeal to the members of the province of Quebec, to put an end to this discussion, an unfortunate one, and to adopt this resolution. I agree with the hon. member of Missisquoi and shall support with pleasure this resolution.


Robert James Manion: Before the debate closes, I should like to correct my hon. friend from
Lotbiniere (Mr. Vien) in regard to the quotation which he made from my remarks in Hansard. I stated when he was speaking that I thought he was mistaken. Since then I have looked up the Hansard report of the debate on daylight saving on the previous occasion, and I find he has misquoted me entirely. I did not take the attitude that he stated I took. While I am on my feet, I should like to say that I do not agree that we in this House have any right to prohibit any municipality from doing anything in a matter of this kind. Taking the case of my municipality, Fort William, or, at least, the central municipality of my riding-because my riding is about two-fifths rural-I may say that it has had daylight saving for some ten or twelve years, as has Port Arthur, and they have found it very satisfactory. Therefore, I personally do not think this Parliament would be within its rights to tell the city of Fort William or Port Arthur that they must not have daylight saving which they find desirable. I admit, some of the agriculturists surrounding the cities are not in favour of daylight saving; as an hon. mem-ler from the West said, they suffer from the inconvenience of sometimes finding the stores closed when they come into the cities expecting the stores to be open. At the same time, while the farmers have a perfect right to take that attitude, the people in the cities should not be ruled by the people in the country on this question. If a city such as my own or any other city in Canada chooses to have daylight saving, to advance the clock an hour, it is the privilege of that city to do so, and it should not be prohibited from doing so either by this Parliament or by the members of the agricultural community. That is my attitude cn the matter, and I think it is a much more liberal attitude than that taken by the hon. member for Lotbiniere (Mr. Vien). I believe this is a question in which each local municipality should be permitted to do as it chooses.


Mr. H. A. FORTIER (Labelle) (Translation) :: Mr. Speaker, I had no intention to take part in this debate but after listening to the different speakers, I deemed it my duty to express my views on the present subject. In my opinion, it is more a question of expediency than a constitutional one. Briefly, it may be summed up in this: Shall we have a uniform time in this country? I shall not take up the legal aspect of this question-I did not bring my civil code with me this afternoon-because, it seems to me, there is a more important question

Daylight Saving

which interests all the electors of this country. It is this: by the experience we have had, these last years, in regard to the daylight saving bill imposed by this Parliament, and, by the experience of the years following this legislation, during which lack of uniformity and confusion took place, Parliament did not think proper to continue this custom. It allowed the different municipalities, cities and towns, to act according to their wishes. Is it expedient that we should continue putting up with this lack of uniformity and confusion? I repeat it, I believe that the question of uniformity of time is paramount, and I am in favour of it for the whole country. The motion of the hon. member for Missisquoi (Mr. Kay) has this aim in view. After having heard the opinion given by the Minister of Finance, he admits that Parliament will never pass any further law as to daylight saving and he expresses the hope that there will not be any cities or towns, in any part of the country, altering their time. I certainly respect the authority and freedom of all municipalities. They are perfectly at liberty to alter the time but they should, however, act in concert with other municipalities.
I incline to favour the larger municipality, the whole country, rather than any particular municipality or city. If such municipality or city wishes to take advantage of this right would it be advisable for it to decree a change of time? If we lived under the old order of things of a hundred years ago; if we had no railways, telephones or automobiles, I can understand that the fact of altering the time would be of little consequence. In those days, local intercourse was rather restricted, we then lived somewhat at a distance from one another; it was not a matter of so great inconveniences as at present to alter the time. But to-day, in 1922, we must bear in mind all the modern inventions which bring the neighbourhood in closer touch. If for instance, we arrive by railway in a town where the hour has been changed, must we undergo all the inconveniences which result from the lack of uniformity of time? In my opinion, I believe that the time should be the same all over the country if only on account of this extension of local intercourse. At present the village has not the same restricted horizon as in the past; its outlook, to-day, extends over the whole country. Through this easy access to all parts we are constantly in touch with everybody. On the principle that we should have the same time
(Mr. Fortier.]
at home in order that the house be well regulated, I contend that the same should apply all over the country, for the welfare of every one. I, therefore, shall support the resolution of the hon. member for Missisquoi (Mr. Kay) because it seems to me to have for its object to establish uniformity of time throughout this country.


Mr. ALFRED STORK (Skeena) :: Mr. Speaker, I am going to support the amendment because my observation has shown me that all attempts to interfere with the workings of Father Time have been failures. The only man who made a success of altering time was Joshua, when he made the sun stand still. We have had daylight saving in operation in the past in the province of British Columbia, and I think I can speak for the people who live in that western province when I say that they have not found it to be a success. In a province where we have daylight enough to read a newspaper by at eleven o'clock at night, I think ample time is given for labour, for rest and for recreation, and daylight saving simply makes more confusion. Where we have different times, where the railroad operates on one time and the factory and foundry on another, that does not make for municipal progress. I have particularly in view the cause and the welfare of our children. Children going to school are, under daylight saving, compelled to rise an hour earlier in the morning; they do not go to bed at night at the accustomed time, and as has been pointed out before, the mothers taking care of the children are penalised to that extent.
I remember in British Columbia some years ago a liquor prosecution was on, and the whole trial hinged on the question of time. A charge was laid that a violation of the act took place at a certain specified hour. After a lengthy and expensive trial, the case was dismissed on the ground that standard time was set at Victoria and in the eastern part of the province of British Columbia, and that this infringement had not taken place within the specified time. We have fire insurance policies issued in this country, and if any one who has a fire insurance policy will read it, he will find that it reads that "this policy is for one year from a certain date to a certain date and expires at twelve o'clock noon."
At six o'clock the House adjourned without question being put, pursuant to rule.

Questions
Thursday, April 20, 1922